# Advice needed re: work and ivf



## amber77 (Jan 24, 2014)

Hi, Im in need of some advice.
I work for the NHS and surprisingly I have a boss who is very anti children. We went in for IVF in February this year, with a frozen cycle of 3 embryo's, unfortunately none of the embryos surprised the thaw. we were devastated. I have 5 days off work of which comes under the 5 paid leave days under the special leave category, so there used up. I then went back to the consultant who offered us another 8 embryos... yep, thrilled isn't the word, we were excited ... the only thing is that theres a new procedure called the Esure procedure, apparently itll increase our chances as I have a hydrosalpinx. so... im booked in to have this small op.

now the interesting it... my boss has ow advised I need to take this as unpaid leave or annual leave as its ivf related, it wont come under sick leave... shes very adamant about it and to be honest her lack of support is stressing me out. 

Does anyone know if she's right? ive contacted the union already and just waiting to hear from them.

Has anybody else come across this or am I being over sensitive?


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## nichub (Sep 2, 2010)

Hi amber, I had to take mine as  a mixture of annual leave and sick leave, and  as I work for a massive trust we have an Ivf section written into out sickness and absence policy, if there are any appointments like scans etc then these should be granted off, once you have had the embryo transferred then you then come under  'pregnancy' related absence  as far as I'm aware , I also went to occ health to put them in the picture and gain their support which was helpful

Hope this helps
Sorry your having a tough time with your manager


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## amber77 (Jan 24, 2014)

If I made an appointment to see Occy Health, what could they do? at the moment all I want to do is get signed off and concentrate of getting pregnant... Using up my annual leave doesn't feel right. She did give me the option of making my hours up after work doing admin for her... I refused this option as Im under enough pressure at the moment.

thank you for getting back to me too


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## Londonkitty (Feb 26, 2014)

Sadly a lot of trusts seem to be heading this way. We used to have a specific section with IVF but when I came to look for it in relation to myself I could no longer find it so I'm under the general leave policy. Luckily my boss is supportive so we're using a combination of flexible working, sick leave and annual leave to stop it triggering an alert that means an immediate referral to occ health. 

In your shoes I'd consider whether I could afford the unpaid leave or what the problem would be if I used up some annual leave. I'm not enjoying not having a proper holiday (this current cycle ET will be my first week of booked leave completely by chance) but it is less hassle and as I have more leave than DH this option suits me best. If you don't want to use annual leave then could you do project work from home at all or would you consider doing additional hours when it wasn't near to your IVF cycle? I'm clinical but have policies that need to be written or research that requires sitting at a computer so I did that last time. I know what you mean about not wanting stress around your cycle which is why taking annual leave works best for me-last time my team we're told I was off sick and that ironically made me feel more stressed as I felt guilty for not being at work. 

Don't know whether that helps at all but there are options there. Occ health would support you but are likely to suggest flexible working so it might be worth thinking how you would feel about this before going to see them. They are on your side so no harm in an appointment

Xx


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## amber77 (Jan 24, 2014)

hi all, thank you for getting to me, at least now I know the script, after my op, im due back on the Friday, if I wasn't feeling too good, would this be annual leave or sick leave if I phoned in ill?

in the past my bosses have been very supportive, so now I have this boss its come as a bit of a shock to have a boss who doesn't care

thanks again


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## nichub (Sep 2, 2010)

I think it's at your managers discretion Hun, whether it's sick or annual leave, I was only allowed to take up to 2 weeks annual leave which was agreed with my manager then any additional time off would be sick, I think the only thing occ health would do would offer you support then it's also documented somewhere about the reasons you were off and that you sought advice 

Nic
Xx


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## amber77 (Jan 24, 2014)

Thank you for clearing all this up, Although it's what my manager has been saying, its nice to have it confirm outside of work

Thank you again

xx


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## VAN6 (Jan 22, 2013)

I work for a private company and my boss was great-we worked out a mixture of making time up, holiday and working from home for the 3 cycles I did.

However a few weeks before the third embryo transfer I was signed off sick for a couple of weeks as was feeling quite stressed and down.

Is that not an option? Can't see how its your bosses choice whether you have sick leave or not-if you're signed off sick how can she tell you it had to be holiday instead?

Unless I'm missing something and this is the way the nhs operates-if so then they're not really a very supportive place to work.

I feel its about time things changed regarding ivf and work-about time it was looked upon more seriously just as physical and mental illnesses but I guess until you've gone through it you don't know just how much it can affect you.

Xx


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## amber77 (Jan 24, 2014)

I couldn't agree with you more, however I feel I'm just unlucky to have a boss who isn't child friendly, most employers are pretty good. Im going to see how I feel over the next week, if I keep feeling stressed and teary then I'm going to look after myself and take some time out, I have a good GP who will understand and give me a sick note.

xx


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## Londonkitty (Feb 26, 2014)

Depends on your sick leave policy. Mine triggers a red flag on my HR record automatically after two occasions of sick leave within six months requiring a chat with my boss in the first instance. After that you have to go to occ health with further absences so I'd have had to probably go if I wasn't already on annual leave. I'm forever grateful I am having treatment in the same trust I work because I can nip off the wards for a scan with my bleep and nobody is any the wiser. I then make up the time at the end of the day. If I was being treated at a different trust I would have to have most of the morning off for a scan which would be impossible to hide. I think this is why my boss is able to 'ignore' most of my treatment until I'm at EC/ET stage and we keep it below the HR radar. 

It might be worth mentioning to your boss that after ET you are officially pregnant so that time does not count as sick leave in the same way. I found that hard to use because I work a clinic in radiology and felt strange saying I shouldn't cover it when I hadn't had a bfp (luckily there were no patients for the clinic in the 2ww so it didn't matter in the end!)

It sucks that your boss is being so anal about following the policy to the letter. If taking the time off as sick leave works better for you in the long run then do it. If you go for another job and it comes up in your occ health check you can easily explain it to the new occ health department who won't see it as an issue that will effect your new job. 
Good luck xxx


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## CurlyGirl1225 (Jun 26, 2013)

Personally I'd take annual leave for this stuff. My job is important to me and I wouldn't want to **** my boss off. I do think this you could ask for flexibility for appointments, ie make up the time elsewhere. The government itself has encouraged this after all.


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## mierran (Apr 24, 2009)

I work in private sector and had some time of for scans , making it up eg working later. But time off for ec and et I took as a mixture of holiday and umpaid leave. After all, I wasn't sick, so I didn't feel comfortable even trying to get a drs line.  It meant I didn't feel guilty about it and could just relax. 

I did take time off sick ( 3 days ) when I was threatening to and then actually miscarrying.

I had ( or didn't as 3 cycles never made it to ec) day off for ec then stayed off until 2 days after transfer.. 

I think you are very lucky getting 5 days paid for ivf per year


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## ema1978 (Sep 19, 2013)

I also work in the private sector and I'm not so lucky to have any days off either. I had 1 fresh IVF and 2 FETs and for all of them I have used a combination of holidays, lieu time and work from home/work later. I'm pretty sure my manager would understand my situation, but I chose not to tell anyone at work about my situation. It is already very painful in itself and I don't want any more hassle. 

I took some time off after the ET only after my second cycle and I should say that it didn't make any difference to me. For the other 2 cycles I took only the SE day off and I think this helped because it make the time flying faster. In my opinion you stress yourself more if you think all the time about it than if you go to work and keep your mind busy with other things... but this is just me. Everyone is different so I hope you will make the best decision.


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## claire145 (Aug 6, 2012)

Hi
I was in a similar situation to you. I work for the NHS had bilateral hydrosalpinx and underwent a laparoscopy. That was early lasts year and I now have a new manager who is very understanding, but my manager at the time was more awkward.
IVF used to be in our absence policy which stated a mix of special leave, AL, sick leave, flexible working and unpaid leave could be utilised at managers discretion. This has now been taken out of the policy. HR's stance was that infertility is not an underlying medical condition which will affect health. I am furious about this lack of understanding within an organisation which should know more than any how infertility can affect mental health. Anyway, I digress... My GP, sharing my feelings on the subject signed me off sick for 2 weeks after my lap. If you are signed off you are unfit for work and your employer can't make you take any other kind of leave. For all my other appointments I use half special leave and half either annual leave or TOIL. This was agreed when the old policy was still in place and my current manager agreed to honour the agreement. I have always been signed off after egg collection as well as I personally don't feel fit for work.

I would say if you are stressed by work and their handling of the situation, and it could affect the outcome of your treatment, see you GP and ask if they'll sign you off.  It's not worth jeopardising our funded treatments for the sake of a blip on your sickness record. It's also worth noting that all IVF sickness is counted as the same episode or related to it and therefore I have not triggered an official meeting with occupational health. 
Hope this helps, feel free to message me for more info as I've been arguing my point for a while about this! Good luck x


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## lconn (Sep 4, 2009)

In our policy it says time for ivf has to be used as a/l but I think its discretion of managers.Mine were brill so understanding.I had time off to go to clinics without being docked and when it came to egg collection that was planned sickness for 2 days then the rest of 2 wk wait was a/l (even if the quota of people are off and no more aloud I still got them).I think its reasonable.I don't think you can expect more than this.


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## Cloudy (Jan 26, 2012)

I work in the public sector, but not the NHS.

Personally I have had a lot of time off as sick for my treatments - i don't feel guilty about it and people have sick leave for a lot less.

I did request special leave, unpaid leave, and flexible working, but all requests were declined and I was told if I was "unwell" because of treatment I should be off sick, otherwise i should be at work; They did let me have appointments off as lieu time. I don't have many days holiday and had used lots of days for appointments and for days when i was too ill to go so work, but was worried about taking regular sick leave. I signed myself off as "recovery from a gynaecological procedure" for a week and then went to see my GP as i was a suffering a lot with stress (not helped with work to be honest) and they signed me off for the remainder of the 2ww as "reactive stress" and then a further week with endometriosis (I got a BFN and the period from hell - though sadly I am off sick every time I have a period).

This time I am signing myself with a "pre-natal condition" or "post procedural recovery" (HR haven't decided yet!) and trying to get back to work next week - although at the moment I feel dreadful and not up to work (2ww stress, endo aggravated by the drugs, and man flu!)

I don't want to sound like a slacker, and I'm certainly not advocating being off sick all the time. However, I think a lot of it depends on how supportive your employer is and the nature of your job. I have to deal with some physically aggressive service users, and basically get shouted at all day, I am unable to work from home or take light duties, or flex my hours. 

Besides, in 5 years we haven't had a pay rise, get treated terribly, have decreasing staff and increasing work load (like lots of people are suffering) and I normally work unpaid overtime every day and put up with stuff I shouldn't. I don't feel guilty at all, but then if I'm not there no one does my work and I have to work extra before I leave and when I get back to make up for it!

Do what's right for you honey xxx


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## MissE (Feb 19, 2010)

I work for the nhs. I took sick leave for my cycles. Just get the doctor to put something on the form that doesn't specifically state Ivf. It is none of their business. I was quite glad I took sick cos ended up with ohss several times and was quite sick. Just do what is right for you, this is too important!! 
Good luck. Xx


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