# Too early for ARGC and immunes?



## Franny80 (Apr 10, 2016)

Hi ladies,

I've often been a lurker on fertility boards for a while, but this is my first time posting!

In the last 7 months I've had had 1 fresh round of IVF and 2 FETs - a total of three embryos, which all resulted in bfn's.

I'm 35 with PCOS and blocked tubes, and there are no probs on my husband's side.

I'm thinking of changing clinics for my next cycle as there were a couple of treatment and admin errors which made us lose a lot of confidence in the last one.

I am now torn - do I throw loads of money at the problem and go for somewhere like the ARGC? Is it too early in the process to go down an immunes route? The last blast we transfer had lost 50% of cells on thaw so it was poor quality, and borderline whether it was worth transferring. The other two blasts were 4bb grades. My hunch is that it is an egg quality issue (I hear this can be a problem with PCOS women) but is it worth pursuing immunes?

Any advice?

x

Me (35) DH (3
TTC 2.5 yrs
PCOS and blocked tubes.

9/15 IVF #1 - 21 eggs, 3 blasts (all 4bb)- one transferred bfn
12/15 medicated FET #1 - bfn
3/16 medicated FET #2 - blast lost 50% cells on thaw bfn.


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## Bella2016 (Mar 7, 2016)

Hi Franny, 
Sorry to hear about your BFN cycles. I know how it feels. If it's an egg quality issue you have, then have you thought about PGS to select the chromosomally normal embryos? 
I had my immiues done after two failed cycles and it is usually recommended after 2-3 failed cycles, where implantation may be a problem. 
You don't have to go to ARGC to get your immune tests done. You can go to Dr Gorgy at FGA and cycle at another clinic. Most ladies do that. Have a look at the immune board. There is a Dr G thread, where you can learn a lot about immunology and ask all sort of questions. The ladies there have a lot of experiences. 
Hope this helps. 
Good luck!
Bella. Xx


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## Franny80 (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks Bella for your reply.

I will head over to the immunes board.

And good luck to you too

Franny x


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## simone546 (Dec 25, 2011)

Hi Franny,

Do you have any indication that you may have immune issues? Such as: history of autoimmunity in the family, chronic infections, endometriosis, raynauds etc. Have you had any symptoms in the 2ww (colds/flu) If so, it's probably worth going down the immune testing route. Have you had any Level 1 tests done for immunes - antibodies, thrombophilia, thyroid?

PCOS can cause egg quality problems, but so can a high TNFa (immune-related issue).

xxx


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## Hopefulshell (Mar 14, 2013)

Hi Franny

Sorry to read about your situation. I'm a PCOSer and have a high AMH. Assuming you do too? Do you always produce lots of follicles and eggs as a result? If so it may be a case of changing the drugs protocol to get fewer but better quality eggs. There are dietary changes and supplements to help improve egg quality but if you've achieved a 4bb blast that's a good quality grading (I got pregnant on my first attempt with that grade). I'm a big advocate of immune testing as for me it provided so many answers to my recurrent failures. I don't have an autoimmune condition nor did I ever experience any of the telltale symptoms during the 2ww so was shocked to learn I had high TNFa of 42.2 as well as a blood clotting issue.

The poor thaw rate sounds like a fault of your clinic's lab. Do you know what method they use to freeze embryos? The fact that your embryo lost so many cells is likely on account of the method they used rather than a reflection on embryo quality so don't lose heart.

As Simone has suggested, perhaps try some level 1 tests first (all the tests for immunes can be found in Agate's guide under the immune investigations board) which your GP may be willing to do for you. This may highlight an issue which is easily treatable for your next cycle, or else give you a direction to take moving forwards. The immune tests done by Dr G are expense and can lead to long waits while issues are addressed. However if it highlights a potential barrier to success then in my opinion it is worth going down this route. I did contemplate switching to ARGC myself but after reading ladies' diaries who were undergoing treatment there the costs and commitment of time visiting the clinic wasn't viable for me. Do your clinic offer empirical treatment for immunes like intralipids? This might be worth a try? If your clinic don't offer any immune support at all that will determine whether you switch to one that does (that's of course assuming you have immune issues). 

Best of luck with next steps.

X


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