# FET and Embryo Quality



## emerald (Jan 29, 2006)

Hi,

I'm hoping someone can answer a couple of questions.

I am about to start a FET cycle and have 7 grade 2 (four cell) frosties waiting which were frozen on day 2.  I'm a bit concerned as the clinic told me that they usually only freeze top quality grade 1 embryos as they have a better chance of surviving the thawing process, but they did agree to freeze our embies.  We really did want our spare embies frozen, particularly as DS born in 2003 came from a grade 2 (fresh cycle) as we didn't have any grade 1's on that cycle, 

Just wondered:

a)  Is it policy generally in clinics not to freeze anything less than grade 1?
b) Has anyone had any success in thawing grade 2 embryos and did these result in a BFP?

Thanks

Em


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## 3isacharm (Sep 26, 2003)

Em,
In the US they freeze them all and have success with grade 2 also otherwise they wouldn't (as it costs us every cent - insurance doesn't normally pay).  We also have a DS from a grade 2, 2 embryo transfer in 2002.  So I wouldn't give up hope.  I would imagine they'll thaw and then let them grow for at least 1 day before transfer.  Or have you considered day 5 transfer?  Only the strong would survive to day 5 blastocyst stage.  I have consulted a few Dr in the US and they don't recommend waiting to day 5 for FET but do recommend opening a hole in the shell (forgot the real term) to facilitate implantation.  They also recommend (if possible) removing any debris from embryo (dead cells for instance) before transfer.  The studies have proven increased implantation when this is done too.  I guess, either way, you'll need to be ready for worst but if they survive thaw then they have proven they are strong and ready to try.
The best of luck.  Let me know how it goes.  We are doing a FET at end of May/early June.  We have 16 (8 frozen on day 1) and 8 on day 3.  Don't know the quality.  They'll thaw 3 from day 1 and let them grow until day 3 and if don't have 3 then thaw on transfer day from those frozen on day 3.
Virginia


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## HelenG (Mar 11, 2003)

Hi Emerald,

I have just had transfer yesterday of 2 embies one grade 1 and one grade 2 - they were frozen Feb 05 - my clinic freezes both grades 1 and 2 - they took them out in the morning and then 2 hours later they were put back in. I also have 3 frosties left all at grade 2 which I plan to use if not successful this time. 
My clinic don't take to blastocyst stage and count 4 days from surge to transfer.
I have everything crossed and will let you know how I get on!!!!
Good luck for your FET - I can recommend the natural route - no drugs is bliss!!

Virginia - good luck with your forthcoming FET - the US sounds far more advanced than my clinic - 16 is an amazing number to have! 

take care

HelenG


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## Witters (Mar 17, 2005)

Hi Emerald,

We had to freeze all due to severe OHSS back in June 2005.  We had 3 embies, 2x 4 cell and 1x 8 cell, all on day 3.  They were all only of a 'fair' quality.  They did not grade them, but class them as excellent, good, fair, poor, so mine if you like could be grade 3??  Anyway, they said they wouldn't normally freeze due to their qualiy, but felt we had been through so much that they would atleast try for us.  

We thawed them in November 2005 and to everyone's amazement, they all survived!  One of the 4 cells lost cells, but the other two stayed in tact.  The two best were put back at lunchtime on the same day and two weeks later we tested positive.  At our 7 week scan, it was revealed that they had both stuck and here we are at 23 weeks still going strong.

I wish you all the best!  You too Virginia!


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## Cecilie (Jul 27, 2005)

Hello Emerald

All 10 of my embies were frozen last summer due to OHSS. They were all grade 2s and 3s. I had 2 put back in November - they were thawed the day before they were put back.

Both embryos implanted, although I lost one at 6 weeks. Still - I'm over the moon with my little "second class" embies!! 

My clinic is not overly enthusiastic about the grading system, saying it's only based on a cosmetic/visual assessment, and the only real way to tell if the embryo is likely to implant is by analysing its genetic make-up.  They've also abandoned allowing embies to go to blastocyst and/or assisted hatching as they feel their results are better when embies are put back into the human body where they belong. (My clinic has a 49% success rate with fresh IVF cycles).

Wishing you lots and lots of luck  

Cecilie


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## tibby (Jan 24, 2006)

Hi Emerald, 

Your clinic has a  very good succes rate, which clinic are you at ?


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## Cecilie (Jul 27, 2005)

Hi Tibby

Sorry if I'm being presumptuous, but I don't think Emerald mentioned her clinic success rates - I did though, so am assuming your question was meant for me? I'm at the Woking Nuffield. And yes, the success rates are great - especially for fresh cycles. They're second only to ARGC in London.

I'd throughly recommend the clinic, my experineces there have, on the whole been excellent. Their waiting list is very very long though   Up to 8 months.

Cecilie


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## emerald (Jan 29, 2006)

Hi All

Thank you for your very positive responses.  It has certainly made me a bit more hopeful about my chances.

Virginia best of luck on your cycle.  I'll let you know how I get on.  We'll probably be cycling at around the same time.  Helen G - fingers crossed for a BFP.  Cecilie and Witters, congratulations on your BFP's! 

Cecilie, I'm at Woking too.  I see that they were happy to freeze your grade 2 and 3's but that was possibly because you had OHSS and didn't have any transferred on the fresh cycle.  I was told that my embies were average quality and a nurse at the clinic indicated that they're grade 2.  Althought they did freeze them they seemed reluctant to do so.  It's particularly encouraging to see that you got a BFP from your cycle.  You're comments about blastocyst and assisted hatching are also interesting as I was going to ask the consultant about that as I am concerned that despite a successfull ICSI three years ago, due to my age now (37) my embies might need a bit more help!  Probably not much point in me asking if they don't do it. And, my goodness is the waiting list 8 months now!   It was 5 months when I went on the list last June and that was bad enough. 

Emerald


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## 3isacharm (Sep 26, 2003)

Em lets keep each other posted on status, who knows we could be cycle buddies.  Everyone that has been through it knows that they keep you sane and help you get through the 2ww.  
HelenG, I did a donor egg cycle.  I never did respond well to the stim drugs, even though I was on the max amount.  I had 2 embies from first cycle (grade 2 and have my son) and 7 embies from the 2nd and 2 BFN cycles(fresh and frozen).  So when we decided to give it a go again due to my age (41) we decided on a donor.  At our clinic it is done with anonymous donor's they get.  They are paid $5,000 and all their medical bills so they usually get college students (from nursing school a lot).  She is 22 yrs old.
Well one of my cycle buddies from donor just did a FET and got a BFP last night!!!  I am so excited for her and for all of us, just makes the positive more real and doable.
Anyway, I am going to jump on treadmill (get it out of the way).  
Helen and Cecile congrats and congrats on the positive results on your FET's.  Any special tips for us?  I am eating Brazil nuts and pineapple.  But anything else?  Did you go back to your normal lifestyles after transfer or did you take it easy?  Anyway, all tips help.
Virginia


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## Cecilie (Jul 27, 2005)

Hi Emerald

I'm the same age as you - will be 38 in May. So you've every reason to be positive about your frosties. They told me that they'd only freeze top quality embies as well, but as you say they probably froze mine because they felt sorry for me    It's worth having the conversation with the clinic about blasts etc - these protocol issues change so often... It just makes sense to me to put the embies back in the safety of the uterus asap. I wish you loads of luck with your cycle  

Viriginia - I did the brazil nuts and pineapple juice too. I also had acupuncture and took 3 days bed rest after transfer and then took it really easy for the whole 2ww.  Everything crossed for your cycle  

Helen 

Witters - Hello! x x x

Cecilie


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