# Surrogacy India- Laws changing to block UK IPs doing this???



## eggtastic

Hi - does anyone know if the laws are changing regarding surrogacy in India? I read in this article that lasw are going to change in order to block uk ips from doing surrogacy in India

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9292343/Revealed-how-more-and-more-Britons-are-paying-Indian-women-to-become-surrogate-mothers.html


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## doopy

hi there, i dont know exactly whats being changed but i read before that they were changing law to stop people coming over where surrogacy was not legal in their own country- ie irish people would not be allowed but uk people still should be, def not an expert but i thought this was the way it was being changed 
doopy


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## LouGhevaert

Hi 

For the first time, the Indian Government has finalised draft legislation to regulate surrogacy. There is currently no law in India on surrogacy and there is no supervisory body which regulates Indian fertility clinics (only a set of guidelines issued by the Indian Council of Medical Research in 2005 which are not legally binding).

As I understand it, The Assisted Reproductive Technology Regulation (ART) Bill is intended to be tabled in the Winter Session of the Indian Parliament and there is now considerable impetus to bring in legal regulation due to the continued rapid expansion of surrogacy across India.

This Bill bars foreign intended parents from undergoing surrogacy in India if their home country bans surrogacy (which would catch most European nationals, although England does of course allow surrogacy on a legally restricted basis).  The Bill requires foreign intended parents to provide an undertaking that their surrogate born child will get the citizenship of their foreign home country before proceeding with an Indian surrogacy arrangement to prevent the birth of children who are born stateless (since they are not currently entitled to Indian citizenship). On this basis, it seems possible that all will not be lost for prospective British intended parents (although this is one to watch and keep under review).  It is, however, looking far less promising for other foreign nationals.

I gather the Bill also requires foreign intended parents to hire a local guardian to support the Indian surrogate mother in their absence.  If the foreign intended parents do not claim the child he/she will be granted Indian citizenship and the local guardian can then assist with his/her adoption in India (the aim being to avoid cases where surrogate born children are left legally parentless and in legal limbo as has happended in the past due to international conflicts of law).

I also gather that the Bill only allows women aged 21-35 to be surrogate mothers, with a cap of five live births in her lifetime including the birth of her own children. Overall, the Bill aims to protect the rights of surrogate born children, surrogate mothers and intended parents and impose criminal sanctions for breaches of the law, although it remains to be seen what the final outcome will be.

I hope this helps and all the best

Louisa


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## kare72

Hi Doopy - Irish people can still pursue surrogacy in India.  The govt has just introduced guidelines in Feb which makes it more black and white about the legal process of bringing baby home.  Thanks


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## NatGamble

Hi all

Just to add some on-the-ground knowledge (supplementing Louisa's post on the theory), there is a lot of political pressure in India to drop the requirement in the Bill for foreign IPs to get pre-authorisation.  Most people think this bit will get removed, or the whole Bill will fail/stagnate, given the weight of pressure from the surrogacy industry in India.

If it does get passed, the restrictions for foreign parents could, however, be a real problem for British parents.  It's true that surrogacy is not illegal in the UK, and that the British High Commission/ High Court do sanction Indian surrogacy arrangements in retrospect in order to protect the child (stuff we deal with every day).  However, it seems very doubtful that the UK government would give general prior authorisation of commercial surrogacy in India, given UK policy on surrogacy.  All will depend on what the Indian law actually expects in terms of confirmation from the IPs' government that they will be able to take the child home without difficulty, but if IPs need the UK court/embassy to give an individual assurances in advance, that will be very hard to get.

Will keep you all posted if we hear any updates.

Natalie


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## Chicalinda

Dear natalie and louise, 

i wonder if you would like to join our ******** group for surrogates and ips? If so, please pm your ******** names and i can add you. It is a secret group so it cannot be found by non members to protect the privacy of the members. Often people have legal questions or need help. Best wishes


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## Tye

Hi one more question on this do we need to be married to do surrogacy in India? I have read that by Indian law couples need to be married for 2years? I know many gay couples who are not married and now have their babies thru surrogacy.Pls advise thank you


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## NatGamble

Hi AR - that's really helpful and we will put that letter on our blog for others.

By the way, there are several bits of that letter which are wrong, not least that the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 1990 no longer governs UK surrogacy law - it's the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 2008 now (which is different in several important respects).

Also for a child to qualify as British at birth, the surrogate mother must be unmarried both at the time of conception and the time of birth, not just the time of birth.

Wouldn't want these bits to mislead anyone, since they seem to come from such an authoritative source. However, great that they are trying to help with medical visas.

Natalie


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## LouGhevaert

Hi

I wanted to flag up the following link which deals with visa applications - http://ukinindia.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-india/SurrogcayAndAdoption/Surrogacy/.

I hope this helps.

Louisa


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## aseagrim

Hi Annarose

I hope you dont mind me contacting you.

Im in the middle of a second dummy cycle for egg donation but my lining does not seem to get any higher than 5.5 so looking into other options.

How did you find the experience with India? Was it very expensive?

It seems like surrogacy is a legal mind field?

What would you advise going into it?

Many thanks

Judith


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## ♥JJ1♥

AR fantastic news, one less headache and hurdle for you. XX


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## eggtastic

Great news Annarosie!!!

I read a bit from the website that Louisa posted and I cannot believe that the waiting time to get baby home is now 6 months   This is so long!!!  On average at the moment I wonder how long it is taking parents to get baby back to uk from day of birth.

x


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## eggtastic

Oh thanks AnnaRosie.  

xxx


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## eggtastic

What about all of the madness going on in India at the moment?  I didnt know anything about the problems there that have been raised in the news.  It is quite scarey to say the least x


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## eggtastic

All ok here thanks... its just schocking as you say


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## eggtastic

We are going to do a few IUIs for now... had a lap done recently... I just thought its definitely worth a few more tries... 

I would like to do an IVF cycle if it does not work out with the IUI... either create embies and send them to India or do a cycle there.


Buuuttt the whole thing in the news about Delhi has freaked me out quite a bit.  And now I am not sure my DH would accept for me to go there on my own...  I might have to look at other options x


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## LindyF

Hi annarosie,

I have been following your posts as we are also doing surrogacy with SCI in Delhi. We had our first attempt, using donor eggs, fresh cycle in November last year which sadly ended in a negative. We are now planning FET transfer using 2 surrogates to start in February, we are excited to start the process again and it gives us hope to hear of positive outcomes using surrogacy. Congratulations, I see you will be going to Delhi very shortly for baby pick up.

LindyF


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## kare72

Hi Annarosie - so happy to hear you are nearly there!!!!!! Our little girl Molly was born in Delhi on Sept 11 and will be 17 weeks tomorrow --she is our angel.  So happy to hear that your little one will be arriving soon!!!!! 


Just wanted to mention that earlier posts mentioning the horrible death of that poor girl in Delhi.  Unfortunately, that can happen anywhere in the world.  My husband and I were there for four weeks and i was never bothered by anyone while I was there.  Maybe as a western woman but others always treated me with respect and I always felt safe going in and out to shops if hubby was home with baby.  I would hope that others would not refrain from using a wonderful clinic because of the actions of five horrible individuals.  


Best wishes to all


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## eggtastic

Hello

I think now you are required to apply for a Medical Visa and also have the supporting information with it:

ii.	A letter from the Embassy of the foreign country in India or the Foreign Ministry of the country should be enclosed with the visa application stating clearly that: 

a.	the country recognizes surrogacy; and
b.	the child/children to be born to the commissioning couple through the Indian surrogate mother will be permitted entry into their country as a biological child/children of the couple commissioning the surrogacy.

Has anyone applied for a Medical Visa from the start and how did you find the whole process?


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## rosebud_05_99

hi
bad news for this irish IP , our treatment in sci in april is cancelled as ireland is not giving medical visas, we were told by sci that a tourist visa was ok so i went and got it and paid around 2000euros for flights and hotel all non refundable plus a large deposit to the clinic, 2 days ago i got a letter frm sci postponing my treatment untill we get a medical visa, just like that, and i had a email from the clinic 2 weeks previously saying a tourist visa was fine to commence.

we are incredibly upset and feel we are never destined to have our family after 18yrs and all the failed ivfs and miscarriages now this , its unberable..

rosebud


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## tide75

Hi Rosebud, I am so sorry this is just unreal 
The law does seem to be tightening just in the last couple of months

http://www.bionews.org.uk/page_242618.asp


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## Hulkster_89

Its a shame the laws are changing for those who where hoping to do surrogacy abroad but don't give up if you think it rules you out now. There are lots of lovely surrogates in the the UK and so on, never give up! xx


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## rosebud_05_99

hi everyone
unfortunately we cant do surrogacy in uk as we live in ireland , i have already looked into it, and we are having problems getting that letter issued due to not having any surrogacy law in ireland just  guidelines on how to bring a baby home, its looking really bad for us right now , i was told there were four irish couples affected by this we have all lost a lot of money on flights and hotel alone.
thanks everyone for your thoughts and your suggestions
rosebud


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## Hulkster_89

Rosebud... does it differ depending where in Ireland you live? I know a few couples that are from Ireland who are doing surrogacy in the UK  x


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## kare72

Hi just catching up on old posts.  Rosebud have been in contact with you on email and just so sorry for this madness.  Get on to your td's and the irish embassy in delhi.  The guidelines are there and if they want to be difficult with letter than get on them.  I have emailed journalist with Irish T*mes to look into this and see if he can help.  No harm for others to do the same.


Remember girls (and boys of course  ) that the only reasons the Guidelines were brought in Feb 2012 was because of all the press and pressure the govt was receiving.  People have to fight this nonsense --the guidelines are there you just need a letter stating that the guideliens are there.  Thats it!!!
DO NOT GIVE UP!!!!!!!!! I am proof that the ultimate dream can happen but you have got to push this ---I am sure the embassy would love for people to say oh well that's it ----NO NO NO!!!!! They tried this same thing when a few couples had given birth and refused to give certs to travel home ----they are there to assist citizens not to decide if they agree with surrogacy or not!!!!!!!!!!!


Unfortunately Surrogacy UK and Cots both told me as well as irish residents not legal to do surrogacy in UK so dont know if those people Hulkster are going about it through Northern Ireland or just doing illegally but you are risking an awful lot doing any illegal as cannot get parental order unless domiciled in UK.


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## tide75

Hulkster_89 said:


> Rosebud... does it differ depending where in Ireland you live? I know a few couples that are from Ireland who are doing surrogacy in the UK  x


Are They from Northern Ireland , technically that is the UK?


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## rosebud_05_99

hi 
i live about 10km from northern ireland but its still rep of ireland so unfortunately now allowed to do surrogacy in uk 

kare72 thanks for ur help and yes im going to fight this all the way , ive lost flights and hotel money which is really annoying and we can little afford but im not giving up on my dream just yet.

thanks
rosebud


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## Hulkster_89

Oh yes of course! How do Uk surros go about helping others from different countries then? Again I've know surrogates who have helped couples from china, america, france, spain.... 

So sorry you have hit this road block. Hope you find a way around it.


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## kare72

Dont know to be honest . Cant imagine why cots and surrogacy uk would say we were not allowed to use them so.  It would be great if we could thats for sure.


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## tide75

Hi there,
Ireland is giving a letter for medical visa for surrogacy.
Tide


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## kare72

Thank God!!!!!


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## rosebud_05_99

fingers and toes crossed now that the embassy agrees and we get a medical visa xx


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## rosebud_05_99

hi everyone
we got our medical visa so we are booked to go in may , 
thanks for ur help 
rosebud


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## kare72

Wonderful news rosebud!!!!!! Best of luck!!!!


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## tide75

That's great news, good luck to you both!


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## rosebud_05_99

Thanks ladies
We are off next sunday flying dublin to abu dabi then onto delhi, gettin nervous an poor dh hates flying as well but hopefully it will b all worth it. Anyone whos been to india have any tips for me on what to expect and what to pack?

Rosebud


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## eggtastic

Hi - is anyone aware of new restrictions on surrogacy for foreigners in India?


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## rosebud_05_99

Hi, i think there is a new bill to be passed in january in india on surrogacy, there is a fear its going to ban surrogacy for all foreign couples, it seems they are going to keep up the ban on singles ect and it will include restrictions on the age of surrogate women and the amount of times she can be a surrogate, the new laws on medical visas caused us so much hassle earlier this year as we had to get a new visa and reorganise travel plans, i just wish they would leave it alone as its great for those of us in ireland to go there as we are not allowed to do surrogacy via uk and usa too expensive so india is our only hope  
Rosebud


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## eggtastic

Thanks Rosebud, I hope they don't change the rules.  Its just sods law that I have just started to think about it all again and now a change  ... I think I will email SCI and find out more - hope you are well - I do check your blog now and then for updates...  x


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## LouGhevaert

Hi

I've just posted a reply about this on the Surrogacy Law thread with some recent media coverage links which may be of interest.

Best wishes

Louisa


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## LouGhevaert

Hi

There's news that the Indian Ministry of Home Affairs has recently issued warnings to embassies about granting any concessions to its medical visa regime. There's more about this here - http://www.porterdodsonfertility.com/2013/10/indian-ministry-ends-surrogacy-visa-relaxation/

All the best

Louisa


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## eggtastic

Hi Louisa,

Can you please explain what this actually means?  I read the article but I am slightly confused.  

E x


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