# Confused... low sperm count, but high motility and morphology??



## teammonkey

Hi,

This is my first post, I am feeling very anxious and confused. 

My husband got his SA back this week, and it showed very low count 0.4, yet good motility I think it was 54% (dr didn't give us a copy of results), and good morphology. He has to have a re-test. 

Is this basically a no hoper for natural conception? Dr didn't tell us anything. 

He had a torsion so lost a testicle at 15, but unluckily he got mumps which affected his testicle, that was just under 3 years ago. 

He had a really bad cough and chest infection in January, and this lasted for 2 months, he had 3 courses of antibiotics, and takes fluxotine, and has taken these for around 3 years now. 

Does anyone know if these factors could have caused his count to be that low?

Has anyone else had a torsion which led to help down the line to conceive naturally? As can't find any information  about that online, except it can lead to low sperm count in around a third of men who have suffered. 

Hoping for some help, thanks in advance!

xx


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## Cloudy

I'm sure there will be a sperm expert along, but beings as it's bank holiday weekend I didn't want to leave you waiting.

In our experience poor temporary health has an affect and my hubby saw a big increase in all areas after his re-test and stopping drinking for a few months and taking well man vits. He has a good count but rubbish motility and morphology and did see a massive improvement.

I don't know what the impact will be on your TTC, and personally the only way I have got through this whole IF/TTC journey is by not looking too far ahead and leaving it in the lap of the Gods a bit otherwise I would have gone crazy!

Good luck and I hope someone can help. Also, there is a Male Factor specific thread somewhere with information about SA results.

Xxxx


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## teammonkey

Thanks for your reply! 

I think I definitely need to calm down, over thinking everything! So frustrating waiting, we've booked his next SA, so a month realistically until we get those back. 

Have you found a supplement which works, he's been taking fertilaid for about 6 weeks now, he tried wellman but didn't get along with them. I've read a few different brands, just wondering which is best. Very confusing!


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## nikki76

Hiya, I think out of the three measurements low count is prob the best case scenario
My dh had poor morphology which basically means most of sperm is abnormal, where with low count only if u get one sperm at least u know its good quality

Have a look here for vitamins that can help increase the sperm
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=294994.0
But basically get him to have high dose good quality vitamin C

Good luck x


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## teammonkey

Thanks for that, just had a look and its really helped clarify what I need to get him. Fertilaid has a lot of those in, but there are a few missing so I will get ordering them. 

I did think the low count but good everything else was positive, so fingers crossed this will help!

My biggest worry, is that he is so healthy so if it is that low when he doesnt drink often, has never smoked, eats tons of fruit and veg, rarely eats meat,eats lots of oily fish, could all this help enough to get to a healthy level!

Well fingers crossed! Luckily he is on board to do what it takes, think being 32 next week, I am worrying about my age. It's so frustrating, as we've been together 5 years, but wanted to wait until we got married, now we are and are encountering issues now  

Thank you once again, you've given me a glimmer of hope, and good luck  xxx


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## littlecat83

Hi there,

There is very often hope for natural conception as you will see from the many 'surprise BFP' stories on here. My cousin's partner had been given a diagnosis that they'd never have children and they now have two - naturally! It's amazing really what can happen but obviously we can't just rely on other people's stories and have to take action ourselves.

I think your 0.4 means 400,000 per mililitre. If you read back through some of my posts on sperm count you'll see from my partner's results that it REALLY varies. When we were first tested he had 2 million, which then went down to 100,000 and then up to 175 million (WEIRD but very low motility unfortunately). Completely bizarre! I think 54% for motility is quite a good count and if your morpology and motility are good then this is really positive!! I don't know about the count though, I think anything under 20 million counts as fertility issues, so in that case your partner's count would be classed as low and if that is the case then yes, you would probably need to have treatment to help you to conceive.

My OH had a late op for undescended testes and also had mumps, a combination of which have caused all our problems. From what we've seen so far sperm count is MASSIVELY variable. It takes 3 months for sperm to be produced so supplements, if they work for your partner, won't show any effect for up to 3 months, neither will changes in lifestyle. My partner had a massive traffic accident and was on all sorts of drugs including morphine and the stress of that was what cause his count to go down from 2 million to 100,000.

Our embryologist said that she's seen tiny factors affect sperm, even silly things like a broken toe, or a cold can knock your count for six. Our systems are very fragile in some ways, and really respond to what is happening to ours bodies. Apparently, when our bodies are injured, or run down (like your partner's with his infection and antibiotics) then reproduction becomes a lower priority on the list and all your body's energy goes into healing the problem, rather than expending energy creating masses of sperm for example.

I'm not sure what fluxotine is but any medication can have an effect on count. Is it something that he has to be on? It might be worth discussing this with your doctor?

From my experience GPs know little about fertility results and tests and ours couldn't even really read our results so if you want help and reassurance it is best to be referred. Have they told you anything yet about treatment or possibly needing help conceiving? With your partner's history of testicle loss, mumps etc then they shoud be looking at helping you with more tests and referring you to someone who can properly advise you I would think. As soon as they realised at the GPs that my partner had an op which could affect his fertility AND mumps then we were taken seriously.

My partner's poor motility and very variable count mean that we need ICSI, which we are hoping to be referred for by the end of May (fingers crossed) and we are trying to keep nice and positive.

There are forums here for male infertility factors and you will find lots of help and advice there!

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=35.0

Also, try not to worry too much about your age - I'm 31 and trying not to worry too much about it. Our embryologist said I'm still pretty young when it comes to the different ages of fertility. There are lots and lots of women on here who have had pregnancies through their 30s and 40s. If you are worrying though then you could do what I did. I paid privately for an AMH (anti mullerian hormone) test or you can request an FSH blood test from your doctor (though apparently this isn't as reliable) to see the state of my fertility to see if going through treatment was something we had to really get on with sooner rather than later.

Know what you mean about the waiting though. My partner and I have been together since we were 17 and if we'd known about these issues we would have sought out help much sooner!

Hope this has helped xx


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## Molly99

Hello ladies and hello Teammonkey!

I don't know whether you went to an NHS doctor for your results Teammonkey - sounds like you did    We had exactly the same experience, we knew so little when we had our first test and had no idea what to ask about.  Our dr just said low count, all abnormal, sorry you won't ever have a baby .... and that was it, no actual results or anything    I'd echo Littlecat, a GP generally knows nothing about fertility.

Sperm test results can be influenced greatly by absolutely everything it seems but it takes 3 months for a sperm to mature so a good healthy run up is great.  Although DH had a vasectomy reversal and that influences everything, we had a massive improvement after taking supplements and living healthier.  

DH had a really nasty cold for our last fresh cycle and his results were much lower again. It does vary hugely from month to month but abnormalities and motility are big problems for us and they are big fertility no nos!  They are sensitive little things these sperm    

We had to have ICSI on both of our cycles, I think that our clinic had a cut of off 15 million for normal IVF.  

I quite liked the Zita West Vitamen supplements, they had more of the ingredients that I was looking for anyway.  I wish that someone would just make the perfect product!  I still had poor DH taking lots of additional supplements too - Maca, Lycopene, zinc and 1000mg of vitamin C seem to be the most recommended.

Your next results will be so interesting, keeping everything crossed for you xx


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## teammonkey

Thanks for your replies ladies! And thank you for the welcome!

I have to say, I would never wish this experience on anyone, but it is nice to be able to talk to others who understand. My friends haven't exactly been supportive, so it is a hard time for me. And I don't want to burden my DH with everything, as he is also feeling quite low. 

My biggest worry is I am obsessing over it, and don't want to get myself too stressed as this will only make things worse. How did you ladies deal with that side of things? Is it just the initial shock of it all, I am hoping I stop soon. Trying to, but it is all I seem to think about  

Yes we did got to our GP for the results, he is pretty young, and admits he has not dealt with a fertility issue before. Now he has asked us to retest which is fine, and fingers crossed it is a better result. I did tell him about DH testicle torsion and orchitis, but he just listened and I don't think this information has been passed on to andrology when they test. Do you think I should give them a call, and make them aware? As I was wondering if they would test for different factors if they knew this? As the first test has numerous fields missing, not sure what they were, as didn't get a copy of the results and the GP didn't seem to know. 

Once these results come back, is this usally the time for referral? Sorry for all the question, I just do not know, and the GP hasn't gone through with us what happens next, which is frustrating as we know DH has a problem and that it will be connected to the 2 major traumas but don't know when we can expect to see someone who has a clue about this. 

We are considering going private after this test if this will make things quicker, as luckily my mum has offered to pay. But obviously only want to pay if it happens quicker and is the best choice. If the time frames are the same then don't to. 

Thanks once again xx


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## Molly99

Tee hee Teammonkey, we could only do this because of my Mum too.  Depressing at my age to be still relying on my Mum but it's such an amazing gift.  I'm so glad that you have support.

I don't have any understanding of the NHS process unfortunately, they were more than unhelpful for us.  Our area won't support couples where one has children (DH) or are over 35.  We did get a referral after 2 sperm tests though, even though it wouldn't have gone anywhere.  For us, private was the right option anyway, the stress of waiting for a referral and then an appointment would have driven me crazy!

I was utterly obsessed with everything fertility for years lovely, it happens and it's very hard to break out of it.  For me, the only way that it started to feel controllable was when we looked into private IVF and got going.  It's the unknown and the waiting that I'm not very good with.  I think that everyone needs to feel that they are doing something constructive during times of uncertainty and stress though.

You could try going to one of the private clinic open days, at least you would know whether it is something that you want to go for then and what your options are?  If you haven't had your own fertility tests then a lot of private clinics also offer these at a pretty reasonable cost and often much quicker.

Sending you lots of  , I've been where you are now and it's so hard xxx


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## teammonkey

You  sound just like me Molly99, I feel as if once we get going and I understand the process, I will relax, it's the unknown!

I am so lucky my mums been so good to offer to help  

We have already sent an email enquiry to Nurture about attending their open evening, there are 2 clinics in Nottingham, but for some reason I am swaying to Nurture over Care...

They did a blood test on a certain day in my cycle, STD tests and an internal examination which all came back as normal/good, but nothing further. The GP said they didn't need to do anything further at this stage, as the problem had come back on DH as we all expected due to health issues in the past. 

We are both really healthy, recently had a health check at our gym, healthy BMI, glucose, cholesterol, both exercise, eat loads of vegetables and fruit, so in terms of life style changes none, only change is I have him on fertilaid, and a couple of other vitamins on top. Not sure what else to do but that. 

Thanks for the   much needed right now, I really appreciate you taking the time to reply


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## littlecat83

Hi teammonkey

How lovely and lucky that your mum has offered to help fund! The only thing I would say with that is that if your treatment doesn't work first time (which I hope it does  )then do you have enough funds to pay again privately? I only say that because once you have had a privately funded cycle SOME NHS pcts (not all) won't refer you for free cycles on the NHS. Do you know how many NHS cycles your doctor's PCT offer? (we get two free) and how long the waiting lists are? It's so tempting to rush into all this but if money will become an issue in the future then it is certainly worth considering using all the budget the NHS has to offer you. You pay your taxes after all!

We are going to see how we get on with our two free NHS cycles and then take it from there. If they don't work we'll have to think about raising the funds to go private. I think in the back of our minds we know that if the NHS one does work, then they don't fund another cycle once you have a child, so we'd have to pay privately to try for a sibling and its a hefty old sum. We're even putting our wedding on hold for that eventuality as an ICSI treatment costs upwards of £5k (more like 7). Yeeesh!

If you do go through the NHS then all the funding comes through you and your doctor, not your other half so it is you that will need the referral, not him even though the infertility issues lie with his medical history. Bizarre I know but true.

Once all your test results come back, showing that there is a problem, and if you chose to go with the NHS and are within all their limits (BMI under 30, no previous children, no health issues etc etc), then they should refer you straight away to whichever clinic your PCT are connected with (you can look all this up yourself!). The wait then depends on the clinic they refer you to. Check if any private clinics in your area accept NHS patients. If so there is a chance you can be referred there, the NHS still pay and you get better care - win win situation!

You basically need to look up your GP, your PCT and their list of clinics that they refer to. I've had a look for you and it looks like CARE Nottingham and Nurture both accept NHS patients. Meaning you COULD possibly be referred there by your doctor and NOT have to pay (though I couldn't guarantee this, I only know that it worked for us). This all depends on what GP you are with and whether these clinics fall into their PCT (primary care trust). The GP won't tell you this (well ours didn't). Ours said we were NHS so we didn't have a choice where we went and we could only go where she sent us but luckily we knew the contract better than she did and now we are getting our own way! Having 'inside knowledge' from a friend who is an embryologist at the clinic we are going to be treated at is the only way we've been able to navigate the NHS systems and manipulate it into something we are happy with. If we hadn't have had that support then we may well have had a much more unpleasant experience.

http://guide.hfea.gov.uk/guide/Overview.aspx?code=101&s=g&gv=277&nav=1

http://guide.hfea.gov.uk/guide/Overview.aspx?code=76&s=g&gv=277&nav=1

From the HFEA website it looks like you are right to sway to Nurture over care (check all the stats on both the links above) as Nurture's statistic on live births from treatment are significantly above the national average which sounds really promising : ) If you look at the stats, in 2011 CARE had 186 live births from 486 treatments (so between a 31.7% and a 45.2% success rate) and NURTURE had 111 live births out of 266 so a higher average of 32.8% to 51.2%. This is for patients under 35 by the way.

If you purely want to go private then I don't think you even need a doctor's referral for that but I coudn't say.

DOn't worry about being obsessive, it happens. This hit us like a sledgehammer. We weren't even quite ready for children when we found out a year ago and we found out completely randomly that the operations my OH had would have affected his fertility so we were straight into tests and talks of treatment without even trying and realising there was a problem. Good and bad in some ways as we managed to by pass the heartache of years of trying with no success but we were thrown headfirst into clinics, doctors, tests and we were completely unprepared for it.

Your lifestyle sounds great and will make everything much easier for you. My partner and I are really healthy but I've been too heavy since uni (whoops) so I have to lose weight for treatment which is super annoying but actually good in the long term as I've been meaning to do it for a while!

Such a shame that your friends haven't been supportive but everyone on here is great at that, and we're all in the same boat. Before I found about all this I cringe at how little knowledge I had about any of this. At least now I know I will be able to help anyone who asks me. My younger cousin has just found out they have problems and I've been able to help her which is great. I'm lucky that the close friends I have told have been super supportive. If your friends aren't supportive, don't talk to them about it. You need to be surrounded by people who are positive, understanding and caring. Hopefully you have a supportive family?

Hope this helps. You are in exactly the same place we were when we started out so just wanted to give you a bit of advice as i found this site very late and it would've been helpful to have people to help me earlier.

xx


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## Gwen A

Hi Team Monkey

Your results were very similar my DH and I found it frustrating, because there is a small hope for natural conception. This just meant that each month I'd hoped for a miracle and got my heart broken each time. We never got to the bottom of why DH had such a low count, but he was on fluoxetine too and there is some information on the web that it and other SSRI antidepressants affect sperm count. 
We did do the usual loose boxer shorts and nutritional supplements to help what he had which meant the count was good when the time came for ICSI.
Good rule of thumb for male infertility is the nutrients used for sperm productions are also useful for other body systems that produces large volumes of cells and visa versa. Made hubby take skin and nail supplements for the zinc and vit C, and suggested nuts etc whenever he fancied (seeds for his seed).


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## teammonkey

Hi Gwen, lovely to hear from you. What is your DH count now? Did you feel the supplements helped you? It is a frustrating process! Did DH have any under lying problems? I am sure mine had testicular atrophy after orchitis, shirinkage of his only testicle so I am a little worried now...

Littlecat83 thank you so much for all that information, tbh we are in a position to go through a few cycle private, however you just do not know how many time it will take   So definitely worth considering NHS. My only worry is with his count being so low, if it gets worse or goes to zero  

I tried looking into where we could choose where we got referred to, but struggled to find it? Where abouts would I find that? the PCT website, NHS or my GP?

Thanks xx


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