# Newbie - confused and upset



## Charlies-Mum (May 25, 2005)

It is looking like we are not going to have a family. I'm too depressed, nervious and petrified of getting pregnant again and have so many issues that I can't face from my last pregnancy that I am at the end of the road (termination for fetal abnormality at 21 weeks). 

I broke down last night and DH has been his wonderful caring self, so we are going to talk about it this afternoon and decide what else we are going to do with our lives instead. First up is to get out of the house we live in. I hate. loathe and detest it. It was the house we were supposed to have children in (moved in the week after Charlie died). 

I guess my question is how did you get through the early stages, and does it eventually get easier?

Thanks
Deb


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Hi Debbycuk

You've come to the right place.

I'm so sorry to hear about your heartbreak.  I can't even begin to imagine how you must be feeling just now.  I can however, appreciate the fear you are feeling.  I too, am terrified of having to face a "childless future".

I'm glad you have a supportive DH and are communicating with each other.  That is so important.  

As far as your question re things getting easier goes, I'd say with me personally, no - it doesn't get easier - I dont think you ever "Get over it" but I think (and hope) that the more the years go by, the easier I'm finding "my way" of dealing with things.  

I think Time has alot to do with it but for me personally, the way I cope (at the moment) is if I feel upset or down, I have a good cry ...... but afterwards, I try not to dwell asking questions like, "when will i ever stop feeling like this?" ,  "why me??",  "why wont God give me a baby?", "why do I let this rule my life?" etc etc.  I just have a good cry and try to "allow" myself the bad day, and try and move on the next day.

I am also trying to get more involved with children of friends/family.  I personally feel, at least this way, I'm not completely missing out all together although I wont even begin to pretend it could ever be as wonderful as having your own.

I realise this may be too hard for you.  It really depends where you're at yourself at this point in time.

I really hope you make some positive plans and start to move on in peace ...........

Best of luck, hope this helped a little.
Love Gill xo


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## Charlies-Mum (May 25, 2005)

Thanks Gill
I guess I'm just finding it hard to accept, but I know in my heart its the right decision.
Just can't wait til I run out of tears....


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## irisheyes (Feb 2, 2005)

Hi Deb, i am so sorry that you are "moving on". It must be really hard getting to 21 weeks- that actually was when my first brother who i never knew obviously was at when my parents lost him. Luckily for them tho they had other children.

Although i havent had any confirmed miscarriages i have thought they were and was getting tests done for that recently.I understand your need to move house. We actually moved into ours 2.5 years ago thinking we would be lucky there as we had already been trying 3.5 yrs in the other.So far we have not been and have gone thru the worst years here in our new home.We cannot really move as dh has a dd who lives with us and we would not want to move again until she goes away to University if at all.(ahe is 15 now). But it would probably be good for you two.

It is so hard to move on - i had a mini breakdown after my treatment last year and took 5 weeks off work. Then went back for 2 weeks and off for summer hols(teacher) so i felt better for the rest from Sept to Dec.It meant i didnt have to see anyone i didnt want to and that took the pressure off. I went thru my first bad phase since last May after Christmas - my af was a week late and then it came on Christmas Eve.On Boxing day my sister announced she was getting married in Aug and since she is already 34 i know that her getting pg wont be long away.It will probably kill me and we cant avoid family as we can friends when they fall pg.

I was going to go on anti deps (not for the first time did i consider them) but havent succumbed yet.It is sometimes overwhelming the feeling that we will not have little kids to look after and i see a long future ahead with trying to fill the void.It can be very scary but i hope that once my sister announces she is pg that i can start to move on - not until then as i am always worrying about it!!! Then it will be easier the next time with my other sister!!!

There is no answer really but i think you have to surround yourself with like minded people and not just people with kids. My dh has a friend he plays golf with and we have met up with him and his wife a few times. They cant have kids and although they believe my step daughter is mine(i have had her with me since age 5) they dont know we cant have more. Dh is too private to tell them!!! Also i used to be very close with my sil and then they too were going thru tx before us- dh's brother is just as private and the men have never mentionned it.But i am hoping that i can get closer again to my sil.She is now 40 and i dont think they are pursuing it any more.I also have 2 single friends who at least i know wont be going on about kids(unless they meet and marry someone soon!!)

Take care and keep in touch xxxx


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## celeste6 (Jan 10, 2006)

hi deb
Obviously you have thought about IVF etc. would you review t hat decision. i think y oure too  young to give up. IVF is not that bad if you get what you want out of it. If i was you i would put it all to one side for say 6 months and then rethink. Never say never - and i would try IVF and anything else within reason.
Love
Niamh


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## Charlies-Mum (May 25, 2005)

Thanks ladies. 

Its not the getting pregnant bit that worries me, but the being pregnant bit. I had a horrendous time last time and we have been told that we may have 50% chance of a future baby having the same condition. I don't think I could cope with going through that again, even if it was found out earlier. There is no way to use PGD either as they can't confirm why it happened. You never think you will have to end your childs life.... parents just don't do that. 

Nither DH or I want to adopt or use donor eggs/sperm so that only leaves us the childless option. I guess its just quite a big step to say enough is enough and I'm struggling as I'm still grieving for my son , and now I'm grieving for the children we will never have.

Debs


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## irisheyes (Feb 2, 2005)

Just take one day at a time Deb XXXX


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Ditto - dont look forward and dont look back.  xx


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## celeste6 (Jan 10, 2006)

sorry Debs
didnt realise the full story. One day at a time and  try and live in the now.
Love and sorry
niamh


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## Smurfs (Oct 19, 2004)

Debs

We talk on the PG loss thread and like you I have made the move to post here.

We have also spoken about moving on and the way forward. Our first step will be to sell up as well as we have been in our house for 3 years and this was to be our 'family' home and it just feels like an empty shell. 

We have not set a time scale but we are both thinking along the same lines, which is a bonus. 

Thinking of you and sending you a hug  

Take good care 

Love Shaz xxx


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## Suzie (Jan 22, 2004)

debs 

 for you hun 

I was trying to write a message to you but i cant find the right way to put what i want to say   
so instead i am just sending you a massive hug and to say im sorry you have had to go through this. 
as someone said it takes time and i dont think we ever really understand why these things have to happen  

love to you and dh

suzie xx


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi Debs and girls
I feel the same way as Suzie and that its hard to put some things into words...
I am so sad for you both i know that doesn't help your situation but we do really understand to some degree your loss. Although we have been down different paths we have expereinced loss in different ways and can totally empathise...
Maybe its just time that you need and to work through your grief..i don't think you ever get over a loss but find a way to deal with the loss of your son....maybe that will give you some strength to find a way forward and look at your options in the future...
Take care ...
love astridxx


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## Pootle (Aug 22, 2005)

dearest Debs

So sorry hun, I have only just seen this.

My heart is broken for you both, I wish I knew what to say. 'Never' is a very final word, 'time out' may give you the strength which you need to face the next step?

If you want to get away over the next couple of weeks, the bar is full and the spare room is ready

xxx


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## flipper (Jul 7, 2004)

Hi Debbycuk

I was moved by your posting and I just wanted to endorse comments made by some of the other ladies. I do think that the way to get through some of the early states is to take it one day at a time.  Some days you’ll feel fine, some days you’ll feel wretched. Both are ok.

Having suffered a missed m/c at 9 weeks I can empathize completely with your concern about the “being pregnant bit” which I think is a perfectly reasonable response and I’m sure what I went through doesn’t come close to what you’ve both endured.

As impossible as it may seem, it can get easier with time.    The wretched days very gradually become less frequent and the days when you’re feeling ok with the world at large gradually increase.  

Like Astrid I personally don’t think you ever do get over it completely, there will always be reminders of what might have been but you can learn to deal with them. 

Planning an alternative future can help the process along – did you take any decisions when you had a chat last week?  A future without children may not have been in your life masterplan (it wasn’t in mine) but it sounds like you have a wonderful future with your loving and supportive dh.  

I hope with all my heart that you both find peace whatever decisions you take.

flipper


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## Dydie (Feb 11, 2005)

Debs
I just wanted to say that whilst I am not likely to be much
support at the moment I was very sad to read your news
hun and I am thinking of you...take care sweetheart, provided
you don't have a dodgy relationship and a SD lurking in the 
closet who will spring a pregnancy on your doorstep  
then this can and does get easier.
Thinking of you
Di xxxxxxx


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## Charlies-Mum (May 25, 2005)

Thank you for your lovely messages. Yesterday was a little better - only 2 lots of crying  

Still feeling very up and down but managed to have an almost sensible talk with DH about the future and what we are going to do in the short term. Why does everything involve spending large amounts of money   At least we have the IVF fund to spend though  

I guess I'll keep popping back here for moral support if thats ok, though its hard not to check out the other boards that I was posting on, its now too hard to read about everyone elses bfps (and even bfns) knowing that that isn't going to be an issue for us now....

Right I am going to stop now as I can feel myself welling up again.

Thank you all so much 
Debs


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## Charlies-Mum (May 25, 2005)

I'm having a very bad day today. I feel like the tears are always just behind my eyelids and everything seems to push them forward.  I don't think I've managed to do any work, just moved bits of paper round my desk. I hope to god that these days will pass soon.

During lunch my colleages were talking about genetic mutations and DNA problems - I don't know how I didn't cry but somehow I mananaged to keep it together at that point but I've been a mess ever since.
I just want to be normal. Is it so much to ask....

All I want to do is curl up in a ball and cry again.


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## Smurfs (Oct 19, 2004)

Debs

Just wanted to send you a great big hug

  

Thinking of you

Love Shaz xxx


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hello Debs
You are allowed to have bad days Debs and crying is a way of letting your emotions go. There is nothing wrong with that it is your body telling you that it has to come out somehow. We are all individuals and we all having different ways of dealing with different situations. Loss is dealt with by each of us in our own way and there is no rules to follow...
I think that you are dealing with two big events in your life and that is the loss of your child and being frightened of ever being pregnant again. They are two huge things to carry on your shoulders and i am sure that you are not sure if you are coming or going...
You are entitled to feel that fear and its understandable that you feel like crying all the time....You need to give yourself permission to breathe and express these feelings because if you try and contain them they will only come out in other ways....
Have you thought about seeing a counsellor? or if this isn't for you maybe a good friend or family member where you can share the way you feel...some people can find that support from their partners and thats enough for them....maybe it would be an idea to try and look for some support to help you through this grief and then maybe you can tackle the other issues that seem to be heavily weighing you down...
Just be kind to yourself...
love astridxx


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## Charlies-Mum (May 25, 2005)

Thanks Astrid

I know in my head that what is happening is my own way of sorting my feelings out - I just wish it didn't have to be so painful.

I've started seeing my counsellor again, who I originally saw to help cope with the death of Charlie, and I think this has been somewhat of a trigger for recent events as I think I have been feeling this way for a very long time. 

I just want all my emotions to be sorted out and to find some peace (and I want it now!).
I guess its just a waiting game for my heart to catch up with my head.

Thanks again for listening

Debs


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi Debs
You may find that this is a bizzarre reply i recently went on a workshop to hep women with all sorts of infertility Me included) to deal with our emotions. It was a real turning point and the best thing that has come out of this S**t experience. The reason why i brought this up was  because it was highlighted that sometimes we need to face that pain so that we can deal with all the emotions that go with it...by facing up to it eventually we will get through the other end....
Its seems such an horrific ordeal, but if we run away from it (like we would all like to) it will raise its ugly head sometime in our lives....
Just by making the move to go and see a counsellor, will give you a chance to work through your loss and give you time to start making other decisions..
Keep in there its not easy but it wil get better with time....the trouble is we have to go with it....
take care love astridxx


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## Dydie (Feb 11, 2005)

I am still thinking of you Debs and had to say that I'm glad
your seeing a counsellor again and I truly hope this helps
you to find that peace.
I just wanted to say that I can identify with Astrids post about
running away, that is all I have ever done and it's true that
in doing this, you can bet your life on the fact that what your
trying to run away from can always run faster and keep ahead
of you. I geuss what I trying to say is .... Battle this head on now, 
let yourself grieve and get all the help you can....I don't think 
any of us could ever fully "accept" our fate but don't hide from
your pain like I have......trust me you don't want to end up like me  
Anyway .... Im thinking of you
Lots of Love
Di xxxxx


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## Charlies-Mum (May 25, 2005)

Well I'm still feeling slightly positive today but off to see the counsellor in an hour so not sure what to expect emotion wise. Guess I will pack lots of tissues _just in case_ 

Thanks again for listening - I feel like such a fraud talking to those that are still ttc as I know I didn't try everything in my power to get a baby but this still feels like the right decision.

Debs


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Debs, I am sorry to be so late to this, and I am sorry to see the anguish you are going through.

I can't better anything the other lovely ladies have already said to you, but your last comment struck me. Please don't feel a fraud and thinking you didn't try hard enough to have a family of your own - after everything you have been through its YOU that reserves the right to decide what you plan to do with your future, and any decision you make is not a cop out hon. Also bear in mind in these circumstances, its also ok to change your mind at a later date - as I have done myself in the past... just as long as what you choose to do is right for you at that given time.

I really feel for you and I am so sorry for your loss, and the pain and heartache you have been going through. I hope you can find some comfort and support from us here. It seems like you have lots of hurts there to heal, and I hate to say also that this will take 'time'.

I agree with the ladies that have mentioned about running away, I ran away from my feelings for a long time and never faced up to them - only to have my world crash around me. As painful as all of this is now, it is good to be able to get it out, to live through it and to share it with us here, because this will help you to heal. I'm not saying its always easy when you come through the other side of your grieving - but it is more bearable, I promise you.

I hope the session with your counsellor went ok hon. Thinking of you and sending you huge hugs
Emcee x


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi Debs
I couldn't agree more with Emcee.....who can really understand the degree of your pain after losing Charlie....
I think you are one brave woman and working forward to sorting things out for you both...
You a fraud i don't think so you are a lovely caring person and you have been through so much pain that at this present moment you are doing what is right for you......put yourself first.......
Love astridxx


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## valie (Nov 27, 2005)

Hi Debbie,

I have just found this thread and I am so sorry for everything you've been through. I can't imagine how hard that must have been for you at 21 weeks. 

Can I ask a very personal question ?  You said you wouldn't consider donor sperm/eggs, I was just wondering why?

If this question opens up any wounds or causes any offence, I sincerely apologise. I can never have my own biological children and am currently on waiting list for donor eggs but I am still very unsettled about this avenue. It was my own child I longed for , the product of my hubby and I.  I just don't know if I can go through this donor egg ivf and effectively have another woman's baby with her characteristics, knowing I will never see any of me in the child. I've spoken to many women using donor eggs and none of them seem to have this problem, they just want a baby and this is the best/only option open to them.  It may be time for me to pull out and just accept living child-free. I just don't know what to do, that's why I'm curious why you didn't want to consider donor methods. 

I'm sorry that this is not really a supportive post for you but just a selfish one about me but I'm desperate for any points of view. 

Valie x


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## Charlies-Mum (May 25, 2005)

Hi Valie

I don't feel comfotable with using donor eggs or sperm. This is just a personal view - no religious or moral thought behind it. We both want our genetic child that we woiuld have been able to watch grow into a mini verison of ourselves (kind of) and as we do not know which of us has the potential genetic problem to ensure (or try to) that the holoprosencephaly did not reoccur we would have to have donor eggs and sperm, meaning a child which would be nothing like either of us.

I'm sorry that isn;'t a very helpful answer - its just my feeling on our specific situation. At the end of the day the only person who can make the 'right' decision for their situation is ther person who is in that situation. Have you thought about counselling to find out what you really want? I've found it invaluable over the last year or so.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do

Debs


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## valie (Nov 27, 2005)

Hi Debbie,

Thanks for your prompt reply and you're right, it's such a personal decision that no-one can really help you make it. I hope time will sort it out, one way or another.

How are you today? It's very hard grieving for what will never be. I think that's why I'm not happy with donor eggs yet, I'm still grieving that I can't have my own biological child. I can only hope that time will dull the pain and that eventually I'll be able to throw myself into other things. Nothing can compensate for not having a child but I've tried to become a surrogate mum to all my nieces and nephews. I also intend to do a lot more travelling and generally pick up other interests. It can't compare to having a child I know but I'm hoping that it will at least distract me for short periods of time.

I have a friend who has 2 terminally ill children. one 10, the other 7. They both inherited a condition (parents both carriers) and will both be dead in 2-3 years time. The first child wasn't diagnosed until he was 3 and by then they'd had their second. I can't imagine anything worse than that, loving your children and knowing very soon you will have to bury both of them. Things like that put life in perspective for me and I realise I'm not the worst off.

I really hope you find a kind of peace within yourself. FF has helped me a lot cos at least you know there are other people in the same boat who you can talk to and who will understand. While family are well-meaning, unless they're in the same boat they don't really understand. 

wishing you all the best,

Valie xx


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## Charlies-Mum (May 25, 2005)

I thought I would post here rather than start a new thread (I know its all "me me me") 

We spent a lovely day today with friends of ours who have a little girl who is one next month. We don't see them very often but they are the only 'family' I feel comfortable with as they are such lovely and kind people. We have been doing ok with the decision we made not to continue treatment but today dh has said something that has sent my mind into a spin.

As a couple we have always said we didn't want donor sperm/eggs nor did we want to adopt- we have always agree on these facts. Well this evening DH said we should reconsider as he realised how much he wants a child after spending the day with our friends little girl. now I'm feeling in a bit of a tizz. Where has this comment come from? Why now? Where was the mention of this before?  
Just when I think I am coming to terms with things he voices a comment like this? 

Perhaps I am over analysing it. Its the first time we have spent with a 'baby' since we decided to stop (although we are going for the IVF appointment 'just in case'). Not sure how I feel at the moment. Perhaps the morning will bring more answers...... I guess time will tell.

Anyway I hope you are all having a good weekend and not going as bonkers as me  

Take care
Debs


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## Charlies-Mum (May 25, 2005)

Hummmmm......  Well DH has gone of biking so I'm home alone with my thoughts again.
I tried to get him to talk about his comment again this morning but it was met with a 'grumph' - standard 'I don't want to talk about this now' reply  so I'm really not sure what to think. 

Does anyone elses DH throw these sorts of comments in occaisionally or I am just super sensitive at the moment?


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## Suzie (Jan 22, 2004)

debs  to you 

I have to say i think its men in general    My dh and i had discussed fostering when we first married but always as a something we would do after having our own children. Which hasnt happened and we sort of stopped talking about it. Then last summer he sat on the sofa and just said, think we should call social services this week! and i said what for   and he said to get a fostering info pack!! Well i was surprised to say the least! Wasnt expecting it! So know the feeling hun! 

Maybe he just felt he had to say it as is feeling that way, but didnt want to pressure you by talking loads about it at the moment and thought would give you time to think about things? 
Strange creatures they are! and they say its us women!  

Maybe give him a couple of days and also yourself a couple of days to have some thinking time, and then bring it up again? 

love
suzie xx


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## Charlies-Mum (May 25, 2005)

Thanks Suzie

We had a little chat last night   and  we are just going to let thing lie for a little while (i.e. a number of months) whilst we figure out the who what wheres of how we feel.

In the meantime I'm setting myself a challenge - a new focus. I am going to loose 2 stone  enter another 5km fun run  and revamp myself  

So out with the choccy and in with the trainers 

Hope everyone else is ok today

Debs


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hey Debbie
So glad that you and hubby have had a good chat... and that you have a plan of action....
In the meantime you are going to train for the 5k fun run.....this will be great, something proactive and take your mind off things...
All the best, you deserve it...
love astridxx


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## Charlies-Mum (May 25, 2005)

OMG - have just spent nearly 3 months of my spending money on a long easter weekend at a health spa!
I can't wait!  

Now just have to break the news to DH..... (luckily he is going away biking for that week!)

Role on Easter!!!!!


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## ks123 (Nov 27, 2005)

Debs, the spa weekend sounds like it'll be wonderful! Enjoy every minute of the pampering! And Easter is really close now. 

Cheers
Katherine


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## Charlies-Mum (May 25, 2005)

Thanks Katherine

Easter is one of 'those dates' because our son should have been celebrating his second birthday at easter. Although it doesn't effect me as much as the anniversary of his death it still is there, in the back of my mind.

I am so going to enjoy being pampered!

Deb


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