# HIV/HEPATITIS RISK



## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Hi girls

I'm sorry if this sounds like an awfully offensive question but I'm just trying to work things out in my head here.  We're now thinking of going down donor egg in Spain route and my mind is doing overdrive here  

I've just read the HFEA website which basically "warns" you about treatment abroad (no surprises there!!)

Anyway.... my question is:

If the donor tests negative for HIV/Hepatitis etc. they could (potentially) go out and have a one-night stand in-between testing negative and Egg Retrieval.  Is this is a real risk?  Can a donor pass any diseases onto a recipient (or resulting baby) via egg donation or can you only pass on these disease through blood alone?

I'm so sorry if this is an ignorant / offensive question but I just need to be 100% sure this is right for me.

Many thanks girls
Love Gill x


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi Gill,

Sorry I am not 100% sure of the answer to this, but surely if you are worried about this, this would apply do any egg donation whether here or abroad?  

I know the testing and monitoring procedure certainly in the Spanish clinics is rigorous and of a very high standard - certainly as high as the UK and as tightly regulated as the UK.

I guess in theory what you are worried about could happen (which is why they screen donors for HIV/Hepatitis), but it is extremely unlikely.  Even if a donor was exposed to it in the short time it takes to do a cycle, I can't imagine it would affect her eggs in this short space of time. I have seen from Resolve's website (in the US) that there has never been a single case of HIV transmission with donor eggs.

Sorry can't give you more info. but wish you luck with your decision.  I know it is very hard at the beginning of the journey to get your head round all the information and it can certainly be very overwhelming.

Daisy
x


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## Ms Minerva (Mar 7, 2005)

Gill,

I must be honest and say that I have thought about this too issue too, and I have done some research on Google. As far as I am aware, there is thankfully no recorded case of HIV transmission via egg donation.

One website that I came across suggested that if anyone was really concerned about the transmission of disease that they could freeze the embryos that resulted from treatment and then ask for the donor to be tested again in 6 months, to allow for the risk that the donor may be incubating a disease. The downside of this is that FET is less successful than fresh embryo transfer and of course, the delay in treatment. 

BTW, in Spain IVF patients and donors are required to update their blood tests for HIV, Hep C and Hep B every six months. In the UK it is every 12 months. As Daisy says, the screening process for both patients and donors seems to be just as rigorous and thorough in Spain as it is in the UK. I would think that the risk of the transmission of a sexually transmitted disease would be the same whether having treatment abroad or in the UK.

The EU Tissue Directive sets standards to which clinics must conform, in all 26 European countries.  And clinics must obey this directive by April 2006.  The standards set by the EU Tissue Directive, exceed those set by the HFEA.  As a result, the HFEA complained that UK clinics couldn't meet the new higher standards in time, and so negotiated an extension for fertility clinics in the UK until April 2007! 

So on that basis, I am not concerned about the quality of treatment in other EU countries.

I think that the HFEA don't like patients having treatment abroad because they cannot control it!

All IVF treatment has a degree of risk involved and I have decided that I prepared to accept this small theoretical risk.


Good luck Gill,

Jules


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## AlmaMay (Oct 15, 2004)

If I remember correctly HIV is transmitted by blood, blood products and semen.  Human eggs do not fall into any of those categories.  

I agree with Jules.  You should be more worried here in the UK than other EU countries.  

Good luck,
Almamay


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## Lorna (Apr 8, 2004)

I did a bit of research once, which I am not sure I could find, even if I was on my own computer in England.

There are no definitive answers, but it seems there has never been a case of transmission of any known STD when the woman went through IVF.  IVF is carried out in an exceptionally clean/sterile environment, and virus would have a tough time surviving the process.

Lorna.


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## earthe kitt (May 7, 2005)

Hi Girls - unlikley to be transmission from egg to mum as the baby's and mum's blood do not mix in pregnancy - small chance at delivery though.
Also even if donor is positive then good chance that eggs will not be affected - many HIV pos women have neg babies.

HFEA don't like us going abroad 'cos they don't get their £200 per cycle. I'm sure they are looking to see if there is a way round this as I type.

Jo


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## Lorna (Apr 8, 2004)

My, My, Jo, we are cynical or are we? 

Try reading paragraphs 382 to 385 of the following report http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmsctech/7/7i.pdf which discuss how various organisations have tried to make it a criminal offence to seek treatment abroad. There are even organisations, that want to go even further than the HFEA.

These organisations would like UK citizens, while abroad to not only be subject to local laws, but also UK laws. Now that idea, will probably blow most lawyers minds.

Nothing like a bit of world domination.

Lorna


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## earthe kitt (May 7, 2005)

They've made more than their fair share out of me in the lasy few years - they can't cope with the competition and so they're trying to quash it
Seriously though, if that is the case then there is a serious civil liberties issue. I'll download your linkks and peruse them in depth over the weekend

Jo


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## earthe kitt (May 7, 2005)

Just had a quick look at page 164 - so they're thinking of expanding the scope of the Sexual Offences Legislation - does that mean if we have treatment abroad we would have to go on the Sex Offenders Register - as Obelix would say - "these people are mad".

It's a very big document - think I will print it off at work.............

Jo


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## roze (Mar 20, 2004)

I've had a look at this - it does not read to me that they are serious about putting us on the Sex Offenders register just that some groups are campaigning for this- have I missed /misread something?  Is it possible that Tony could publish the relevant extracts on this website?

I've experienced some things in the last few weeks that I find really worrying in the context of officialdom clamping down on abroadies-
The first was a GP at my local practice- I've written about this experience under the main abroadies thread- he is from what I can gather from other people who know him, a Christian - very very disapproving to the point of view of refusing to prescribe me the Pill on very dodgy medical grounds.  I initially thought he was just being overprotective - of me in my advancing years and his insurance - but on reflection all his arguments could be totally knocked down. This was I believe just an excuse to stop me proceeding.

The second was a social worker. We went to see someone to explore overseas adoption. She was probably doing her job on making it all seem an impossible dream, but she was very candid about her views on people seeking donor eggs/sperm, and the implications for general societal well being. Our being aetheists did not seem to endear us either. I really got the impression that our seeking donor eggs overseas would count against us when we were up against an adoption panel  ie we were patently irresponsible people. 

Most fertility clinics in the UK are supportive of people having donor ET overseas, in fact most will recommend it - I am increasingly discovering that outside this framework  its just not cosy at all, and wonder where all this will lead.  Will there be a form to fill in at the airport- ' no meat, dairy produce, or foreign embryos will be allowed in to the country'? or a special immigration queue for the embryos, perhaps?

''State your reasons for flying- business, pleasure, or fertility tourism?''  Will we have our own box?



roze  xxx


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## Newday (Apr 27, 2005)

Roze

I read your post with interest. My Dh is very suspicious of the "state" keeps asking lots of questions etc....

He keeps going on about identiy cards and is convinced that they will have DNA info on at some time.I think you are right people do disapprove and don't understand which is why we have chosen not to tell anyone what we are doing.

We are christians and have struggled with the whole area but do not feel we are doing anything wrong so don't judge all by your GP he may be catholic and hold very strong opinions.

I think at the end of the day you have to be true to yourself NOT everyone else.

Take care

Dawn


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## roze (Mar 20, 2004)

Thanks, Dawn,

I am sorry I did not mean to offend anyone's beliefs, so please accept my apologies if I did. We are not used to discussing it with people outside our clinics so I suppose we've been a  bit sheltered from reality.!

Good luck in your own treatment,


roze xxx


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## Lorna (Apr 8, 2004)

The Christian Medical Fellowship according to point 283 of http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmsctech/7/7i.pdf are the ones who want to extend extraterritorial jurisdiction to include those who go abroad for treatement, particularly if those going abroad do anything that is not legal in the UK. You night think that is things like sex selection, but it also includes PGD embryos, so you can select the best, compensating your donor more than 15 pounds, and doing Surrogacy, like we did in the USA. Currently extraterritorial jurisdiction only covers very serious crimes like murder, but the Christian Medical Fellowship would like it to cover infertility treatment as well! Duh!

The Christian Medical Fellowship web site http://www.cmf.org.uk/ looks like it might be an interesting read. And might explain , Roze, why your GP was not as helpful as you would like.

Lorna


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## earthe kitt (May 7, 2005)

Sorry Roze - just me being cynical and flippant  - you have to laugh or else you'll cry, and I've cried a lot over recent years.

Lorna - you're a real resource - thanks for your guidance

Jo


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## roze (Mar 20, 2004)

Having read the report extracts again,( I think you mean 328?)this seems to be good news, as the paper has drawn the conclusions that the comments and advice of the HFEA on going abroad need to be based on evidence, not prejudice, and also that tight regulation does not mean good regulation.  
All in all, this Committee appears to take a sound and balanced position. It even refers to what are excellent standards in many European countries. So there are no plans to criminalise abroadies. One less thing to worry about.....

PS it refers to abroadies going to Denmark in particular for sperm donation- is this happening?

roze xxx


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## earthe kitt (May 7, 2005)

I think a lot of sperm in the Uk already comes from Denmark

Good to see that it implies criticism of the HFEA when it states that "tight regulation does not necessarily mean good regulation"  How true

Jo


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## Lorna (Apr 8, 2004)

Roze I actually meant point 383. Oops!

The March 2005, from the Science and technology committee was good news. Unfortunately after that it is all bad news. There is response from the Department of Health (DoH) http://www.dh.gov.uk/assetRoot/04/11/78/74/04117874.pdf Things get worse when you read the Public consultation document that the DOH published http://www.dh.gov.uk/assetRoot/04/11/78/72/04117872.pdf I no longer have the link for the question that were part of the public consultation document, and parts of the DoH site are down, so I can't go looking for it. Even if it is still there.
By the time you get to look at the responses from the public, http://www.peoplescienceandpolicy.com/downloads/DH_consultation.pdf that the Dept of Health chose to include, you will probably be suicidal. I find the last document impossible to read.
The Department of Health seem to have completely ignored the recommendations that the government's own Science and Technology committee made, as well as ignoring the wealth of research that is available in from the US!

Depressing isn't it?

Lorna


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