# New and confused



## Gwendolyn (Oct 24, 2004)

Hi!  I am so message board ignorant that I am not even sure if I am "doing this deal right".  I posted on the "Introductions" section...but I am most interested in hearing from those who find themselves in this section...especially those who have decided to use donor sperm
This website came recommended as a way for me to seek support.  You can see the details of my profile.....and I would welcome some kind words.  Despite telling all parents and a a handful of close friends- I am often left feeling pretty alone on the issue of my husband and I embarking on the road of donor IUI.  Before fertility issues came into our lives, I could easily be described as a hopeful and optimistic person.  Today I feel I "put on a mask" for the majority of my day...and it takes a lot of energy.  There is never a day that I do not think about the loss I feel about not being a parent a thousand times over ....and the fear my husband and I will not experience a pregnancy and birth together.  I feel anxious, SAD, scared, jeolous, envious...and most of all lost.  It's difficult to feel like you fit in with peers.  So here I am- all ears!
Gwendolyn


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## tinkerb (Aug 12, 2003)

Hi Gwendolyn,

Just wanted to say   and welcome! (and you were up very early this morning!  )

You have made a very good move coming here! I felt exactly the same as you last year before I found FF. i felt hopelessly lost when I stumbled across it and ive found so much support and kindness that im still here a year later! I dont know how I would have managed without FF.  As you say people who have never experienced infertility can only try to empathise but here we are all in the same boat. My dh and I are using donor eggs rather than sperm but im sure that there will be someone here who is using ds who you can link up with.

Sending you loads of luck for your cycle in November, 

Tracey.


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## Gwendolyn (Oct 24, 2004)

Thank-you Tracey.  I am eager to feel supported by those like yourself.
I will anxiously await responses from those who are using donor sperm....are you out there?  
Gwendolyn


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## BunBun (Apr 25, 2004)

Hello Gwendolyn,
Justed wanted to say welcome and that I'm in pretty much the same situation as you. we haven't told anyone about what we are doing so to me being able to post any silly(to me) comment is really helpful as I have no one else that I can discuss things with, DH is pretty useless with trying to reassure my fears etc but I can also understand his fears in not wanting to discuss what we are going through as he sees it as some failure to his part. My hardest & lowest part was when I had a m/c just didn't know what to do as I couldn't talk to anyone, spent most of the time crying especially when dh said that we couldn't try again, I really wasn't expecting that. But nevertheless here I am again trying once more and now have only 3 days before I test again.
Wishing you all the best with your treatment in November.


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## Mae1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Hi Gwendolyn,

My husband was diagnosed with azoospermia in May 2004.

We dont know why! 

All his hormones etc are fine, but the consultant still doesnt hold any hope for finding any sperm with a TESE. I, like you feel total and utter loss. I was always a really happy go lucky kinda girl, always the life and soul of the party but now I just feel empty. I feel like there is a huge hole in my heart. Im very lucky in that I have a son, aged seven from a previous very abusive marriage. But i just sooooo want a baby with my DH as he has been there for me through thick and thin and I want to share the bond of a child with him as he wants it so much.(My ex didnt want a baby and hated me for being pregnant. It was a really bad experience)
I would like to try donor route, if everthing else fails, but at the mo, DH is against it. He feels a complete failure and refuses to talk about IF which just makes me feel so much more alone.

I found FF and it has helped more than words can say. I post regularly on the ICSI post "Male factor" We are all in the same position with most of our DH having azoospermia. Please come and join us, its a brill site.

Hope all your dreams are realised very soon
Take care,

Lol

Mae


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## emma jayne (Oct 16, 2004)

hi mae my partner was diagnosed wiyh azoospermia aswell early this year. he underwent a tese this was unsuccsesful as they only managed to retrieve a tiny amount of sperm! he then had an open biopsy which was also unsuccsesful as there were too many blood vessels in the way! he was eventually seen by a specialist urologist who did another open biopsy without any complications and got loads of sperm. so there is still hope for you yet! i am here if you need any advice xxxx


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## Mae1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Emma Jayne,

Thank you so much for your reply. It is so uplifting to hear good news happening to someone in the same position as us.

Were your DH hormones, chromosomes etc normal?? What is the cause of his azoospermia?? I hope you dont mind me asking.

The trouble is, i think if DH has a failed first attempt at SSR, there is no way he would try again. His ego is so bruised at the moment and he feels there is no hope. The only reason he is going for TESE is to get some answers.
At our clinic app, our consultant said although his tests came back normal (apart from a zero count on SA) he still felt there would be no success. He only offered us a MESA and even then said he didnt think there was much point and to think about donor.
I thought that if DH was going to need surgery to get answers, then the best chance was with a TESE. The only way we can get one of these procedures is to change clinics, so that is what we are doing. We are currently waiting for our consultation app at the new clinic which is on the 9th Nov. That will be to schedule a date for SSR (TESE). 
At the moment, I cannot think of anything else. My mind is all over the place and I keep making mistakes at work. I just want this SSR to hurry up so that we can finally get out of limbo and know which direction the rest of our lives will take.

Thank you so much again for your reply.

What steps are you taking now? Are you doing ICSI? Where are you based?

Take care and thanks again,

Mae


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## Gwendolyn (Oct 24, 2004)

Well, I had a very LONG and eloquent letter all written up ...and then my computer went down (groan!)  Here I go again (briefer this time):
I want to thank-you all for your responses....I cannot tell you how much weight slides off my shoulders hearing your words (and MY words in YOUR words!)  Deciding to get on borad with this website was a very good choice for me and long overdue
Thank-you Tracey, BunBun, Mae1 and Emma Jane!

BunBun, Mae1 & Emma Jane:
I have never spoke with anyone who has a DH with azoospermia.  It means a lot....especially tonight.  
I am just having a "bad day" (one of THOSE!) and I really needed some reassurance for my fears from my DH and it just didn't happen....not the first time, and likely won't be the last!  Like BunBun, I know that it comes from a place where he has his own fears and ambivalences about the process.....and his own sense of perceived failure and guilt.  BunBun, when you note that your DH can be "useless" in offering comfort- I HEAR YOU SISTER!!  It means extra grief, doesn't it?  I came away tonight feeling more empty than I started!!!  So here I am!

It took almost a full year of counselling for my DH to feel on board with the idea of donor sperm.  If I had said that I was prepared to live a childless life, I think life would be so much easier for him....even though having children was a dream we BOTH looked forwarded with excitement to BEFORE our fertility issues.  I knew in my heart that if we did not try this option, I would become resentful and bitter and that isn't helpful in mainatining a marriage.  I was very respectful of the time and processing that it took for my DH to "get over the fence"....but it was agonizing and lonely for me.  Donor sperm and our fertility issues was very much a FORBIDDEN discussion in our home for a long time...it took a 3rd person (fertility counsellor) to touch upon the battle.  That always seemed ironic to me....here we are a couple choosing to BE together and it takes some stranger to help us talk TOGETHER! Ouch!

When DH was on board it was much easier ....at first....but with every failed attempt, I feel I "lose" his vote a tad....and yet, it is "early" for us in this process.  My anxiety about this November attempt was on my mind tonight (plus I endured a Baby shower last night for his cousin  )...and DH was just so unable to give himself fully tonight....his need to sleep seemed MORE important to attend to!!!!  

I start to think that I am some kind of foolish woman to be pursuing donor sperm and IUI with a DH that presents ambivalent at my most needy times.  I wonder if some spiritual body is trying to tell me SOMETHING: "run away, run away....abort this option (and all options to have children)...don't you see this is all not meant to be??  He is not FULLY on board AT ALL TIMES...doesn't that tell you something, you fool, you fool?"....and then comes my grief and wonderings about our marriage: "Is this MARRIAGE meant to be?" I ask myself.  Is this some crazy means of telling me our marriage is not meant to be??

It just feels so pathetic to feel that I am 120% on board with this journey and my DH runs between 50% and 85%....but never really a true FULL 100%...but NEVER 120%! 
Please share with me how you all consolidate the issue of donor sperm and your marriage relationship.  So gratefully, 
Gwendolyn


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## Mae1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Gwendolyn

Reading your message, I have tears falling down my cheeks.
Oh My God!!!!!!!  Someone else feeling EXACTLY the same as me!
My Dh refuses to talk about IF at all. If ever I try and bring the subject up, he says to stop talking about it as there is NOTHING to talk about!!! How can there be nothing to talk about when this is our whole future, our whole life together. Well, there I have my answer, maybe it isnt HIS whole future, HIS whole life.
When we met, we were both so excited about starting a family. He is such the 'family man', brilliant with children. 
When we went to the Dr to get his SA results the very first time and were told he had a zero count, it changed our life. It felt like the dr had torn my heart out. I suddenly went from being so close to my husband, from sharing everything with him, to him turning away from me and shutting all his doors!
He didnt speak on the way home apart from to tell me to find someone else as he couldnt give me what I want. Thats all he EVER says on the IF front and it makes me feel more and more iscolated.
On the way home from our last clinic app, (a 2 hr journey) after being told a MESA held little hope for a successful SSR, my DH cried as he drove. The only thing he said for the whole journey (and it was 'said' and not open to be 'discussed') was " There is no way Im using someone elses sperm. Mine or nothing! We will have to get used to it!"
It really messed with my feelings. I sooooo need to talk to someone, and I want that person to be him. I cant show him my true feelings about all this for fear of making him feel bad about being azoospermic. All I want is  a baby and would do anything to feel pregnant and for him to be by my side as I brought a life into this world. 

I guess Im just waiting for the SSR now. If and when it comes back negative sperm, Ive decided to MAKE my DH listen to me. He needs to know how I feel about all this but shouts me down. He has soo much else in his life- a hectic job that he loves, a passion for golf -that I believe that he could 'manage' without a child. BUT I CANT!

I want to try donor but am so worried of the implications. If DH isnt truely for it, will it push us apart forever We are so close in every area as long as I dont mention IF. To me, thats a farce! That is all I think about at the moment.

My friend called me 'snow white' the other day because she thinks I try to make it all look rosy for DH, to make his life easy when inside im crumbling.

He wont let me speak to anyone about it either, no friends. But  had to in confidence. They noticed that I was soul less!

Hope I havent gone on and on but it is so re assuring to read a post from someone else going through the same thing.

Dont get me wrong, I adre my husband, I really do. I just wish upon a star for him to be there for me like I am for him. I keep quiet about IF now, for his sake....but what about me for a change!!!!!!!!!!

Hope you are ok,

Lol

Mae


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## emma jayne (Oct 16, 2004)

hi mae,
sorry its taken me some time to reply, i hope you get this message. with regards to what tests my dp went through, he had them all! they tested his hormones including FSH, LH,thyroid function,Chromosomes and a test for cystic fibrosis, these all came back normal!!! When we were reffered to the clinic(Midlands fertility services in Birmingham) they did a blood test called Inhibin B this shows whether they are likely to find sperm  if they do a TESE. Has your dp been offered this if not ask for it?. I am so sorry to hear about how you and dp are coping with his situation you both need to be really strong and support each other. I do know how you must be feeling? when we found out about his azoospermia our gp told us our only hope was donor sperm, so i went through the exact emotions that you must be feeling at the moment. He was completely against the idea, we argued about it that much that it nearly came between us! He must understand that you need to confide in other people and to be able to talk to each other openly otherwise you may find yourself resenting him for it. I really hope things turn out ok for you both i really feel for you.
I have just completed my first cycle of ICSI which unfotunatly didnt work for us this time, started af yesterday!!!! feel completely gutted. Hope to start another cycle in a couple of months time (that is if i can save enough money? bloody expensive business all this??) unfortunatly we didnt have any frozen embryos so we have to start all over again. I am here if you need any more advice I wish you lots and lots of luck
Emmma Jayne xxxxxx
PS gwendoline - you made me feel really sad when i read your post i hope it all works out for you maybee some of the above advice will help you too xxx


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## Gwendolyn (Oct 24, 2004)

Hi Mae
Without a doubt, I could have definitely written the letter you wrote a year ago (and probably should have for the therapeutic value...but was not aware of FF then!).  Everything you noted has been my experience....so I am so very happy to have found you in my travels of FF.  My DH is very much a family man...loves his home-base, gets a kick out of children.....when he found out about having no sperm- he had a very physical reaction...and fell to the nearest chair.  He, too, cried terribly (I had never witnessed him that way in all of our 11 years together) and said that I should find someone else.  It pained my heart in a way that it is hard to recount even now.

He definitely distanced himself from me....I even came to believe that he was unconsciously trying to sabotage our marriage.  He became depressed and eventually received treatment by his Dr who prescribed an anti-depressant..... that he is still taking to this day.  Of course, as I said before we went to counselling together.....and I often went just by myself, as well (still do!).  I think he went once or twice by himself, too, and said he found it helpful (the iniative was my prompting, I admit)

I want to say "keep the faith"....but I know when I was in your stage (and even today), I didn't believe in "faith" much anymore.  In fact, I felt pretty angry at any body or perception of faith.
  
I really, really, REALLY, TRULY believed my DH would NEVER come around to donor sperm.....but he did!!!!   So please know that even in your deepest and darkest moments there is some surprising hope.  My DH and I have come a LONG way since Feb. 2003 when he was diagnosed....and we are closer for it.....though we do have those days and nights creep up that take me all the way back to "the black cloud" (and I indicated that in my last note).  With every hurdle we overcome....I try to believe we are closer to where we originally wanted to be....parents to a child.

From the day we received our diagnosis, we agreed to tell each of our parents and also agreed on ONE close friend...that's how we managed at first.  You have to reach out or you lose your sanity and I believe women need that more than men.  I think you made the right choice to tell someone, even though you may feel you betrayed your DH's confidence.  Neither one of you are in a sound position to do this alone.  I applaud your courage in taking the risk to share with friends- maybe you are the "strong" one now and had to make the "tough" decision that he is not able to right now.  My DH eventually chose to talk to more than 1 close friend of his.  I have done the same (sooner than him!  ...though our intent is to keep the circle small.  I desperately wanted to tell my siblings, but DH was against as he did not want to tell his.  Of course, when he came to the place of exploring a known donor in Dec. 2003 (that's a whole other story) he obviously opened up to his brother (who, for the record, said he could not do it.....I, myself, had long expected that response from DH's brother and was fine -relieved? - with that!).  Anyway, after ALL THAT, he also told his sister ......and so I told my brother and sister.  What I am trying to relay in all this chatter is that TIME does amazing things....and belive me, I did not trust the time process at all!!!!  Never in my life have I had to ever muster as much PATIENCE as I did for this journey, but it has ultimately paid off.

As I indicated before....I think my DH could convince himself of happiness with a childless life.  Like you- I CANNOT!  I will tell you that eventually I did, indeed, have to have a very "tough love" sit-down with him and explain to him that I would not be able to just put this donor sperm option away.  Knowing that it was an option, meant that I felt we needed to TRY it.  I presented the donor sperm option as "half of an adoption".  Nobody blinks an eye at those who decide to adopt a child....so I try to look at this donor sperm thing as adopting half of a child (the sperm half).  I also felt that it would only be a bonus to our child for him/her to have an awareness of at least, half of their biological history.  I emphasized the importance we had always placed on sharing the experience of a pregnancy.  Most importantly (and this was by far the scariest part of the discussion for me), I said that I worried for our relationship if we did not AT LEAST give this option a fair shot....because I knew in my heart I would feel restricted otherwise, and I would become bitter and resentful at him for not giving the option an ATTEMPT.  I talked about how this was hard for me as well, but it is basically our primary option.  I knew that if we both did not agree to try it...it would only be a matter of time before it pushed us apart.  I needed to share that with him...because I knew better than him about the liklihood of these relationship dynamics, I think.

My DH had decided against intrusive surgerical  procedures because he felt that to retrieve one or two sperm (when there SHOULD  be zillions) would more than likely mean retreiving "not-so-healthy" sperm....ones that are not exceptionally resilient and able to be maintained for conception.  I really left that up to him.  Sometimes, I still wonder

I think it is important for us as partners to share when we are sad....so I do agree with your dear friend.  I will also tell you that what sadness I did share initially was not ALL the sadness I felt....I know that I did temper it- whether that was "right" or "wrong".  I will say that my DH has become stronger...and eventually I was able to share more and more sadness as he became stronger.  Nevertheless, I need to remember that he has his bad days ,too.  And I guess that when we BOTH have bad days....it's a bad mix (like last night). 

Update: We discussed our interaction last night (not something that could have VER been broached a year or more ago)...and he told me tonight what would work better for him (i.e. no heavy topics broached when he is completely and utterly physically exhausted) and I identified what would work better for me (no brush offs!!!  a hug would ease my insecurities beyond belief and if he could just remind me that he "would like to talk about this- but feels he can't give the topic due attention-and we'll talk about it in the morning").  I think we reached yet ANOTHER truce....platform for a richer relationship, perhaps?

So ultimately, Mae......keep your perseverance.  I did...AND it is INDEED a very awkward, painful and uneasy "dance".  It also involves a lot of "toe-stepping"....and plenty of daunting... yet worthwhile.... INVESTED TIME.  My counsellor said that as much as it may have seemed to have taken my DH a long time to "get on board" ...she would rather see that, then the other way around .....because it highlights his thoughtfulness and his abilty to take parenting SERIOUSLY.  She relayed to me the various couples often just "run into it" and then the difficult feelings and processes hit later- in a bad way.  She said one woman she worked with got pregnant with a donor sperm, and her DH ended up leaving her for most of the pregnancy.  They eventually got back together apparently- but CAN YOU IMAGIN how she must have felt!  My counsellor says that the problem with entering the world of fertility problems is that most couples just stand at the top of the mountain and jump off the mountain towards PARENTHOOD (after a nice intimate night, of course) ...and there they are- flying down the cliff...and there is no turning back!  But with couples who meet challenges in fertility- you ACTUALLY get this choice about whether you REALLY want to jump off the mountain...and yet, most would not just willingly jump off a MOUNTAIN.  I thought I would share this methaphor with you....Between my DH and I , I am more the risk-taker.  He is an intense thinker...and struggles with making the "right" decision about many things.  I guess I needed to recognize and accept his whole package that way.

I, too, adore my DH...I fully understand that this is not the question.  The question is how are you as a couple going to get through this loss together....what is going to be helpful...and not so helpful.
Mae: Be so very gentle with yourself....go where you can get nurtured....those safe friends....that delicious chocolate.....that warm bath....or cup of tea....for me, seeing a counsellor has been such a bonus- it's a safe place for me to vent....and now I have someone like you to "message board" with .....and FF,as a whole!
Well, I have rattled on forever.
Emma Jayne: thanks for your kind empathies/sympathies.....just knowing I have ears out there is food for the soul.
xo Gwendolyn


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## Mae1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Hi 

Emma jayne-  
Im so sorry to hear that AF arrived and dashed your hopes for this ICSI cycle. You are bound to feel completely gutted. You need to induldge yourself in yourself and take time to heal your loss, that way you will be up and ready for your next try. I agree this IF is soooo expensive, but I truely believe that to feel that baby in your arms at the end of it all will be so worth all the saving. Good luck and look after yourself.

Gwendolyn - 

I must just say "Wow....dont you go to bed? your posts are always soooo early!! 

Thank you so very much for your reply, it feels so good to know that I have found someone who has gone through the same thing exactly in reference to their DH attitudes and feelings. This site is fantastic, but i have still felt isolated as to my DH old fashioned response. He is so 'male' (!) in that he would rather put his head in the sand and forget about it all til he really has to face it. I, like you, always take risks. I jump off that mountain all the time in every area of my life then face the consequences later, yet with this I find my DH holding a very tight rope at the top, preventing me from going over the edge. I feel soooo sorry for him, I really do. He is such a macho bloke and this , he feels, has robbed him of his masculinity completely. Ive tried to be there for him at all stages, keeping quiet about IF (For his sake) and just being there, but why oh why cant he 'be there' for me in the sense of letting me open up on my feelings You are right in saying that it could so easily cause resentment on my part, not in the fact that he cant father a child, but just the lack of communication when it is so neccessary.

Time is the best healer I know. And if im honest, in the past 6 months since being diagnosed things have progressed in that he asks about the process of treatment etc but this is very much on the practical front as opposed to the emotional one. (having said that, 6 months ago, he didnt even discuss the options) AND, he only asks about it when having to have a blood test or appointment, not when we are sat together in the evening. 
Im like you in that a hug would ease so much of this burden and the reassurance that he will discuss it sometime would be great. Instead, if I mention it, he withdraws himself, I loose the chance of a hug or glimpse of reassurance. He just snaps "You dont know what it feels like, its MY problem!" No amount of reassurance that it s "our" problem helps, and as for not knowing what he feels like....JUST TELL ME!!!!!!!!

Im so heartened by the fact that I can see you and your DH have come through these feelings and set backs and are now facing it together. Its great that he has come round to the idea of donor sperm and it really shows that he has thought it through well by taking his time. My DH is very much like that in that once he has decided (and it often takes ages!!) he sticks to it. Your DH is not afraid to be honest and that is a strengh that will help you both through this such tough time.
Once, not so long ago, I was telling (not chatting!!!) my DH that if he gets a positive SSR and we go for ICSI, the clinic had told me on the phone that they would schedule him in for another SSR on day of EC just in case the first lot of sperm didnt defrost well. If both these options failed then there would be the option of donor backup. FOR ONCE, he didnt shout me down. He just said "OH, right!" Maybe, if all else does fail, then just maybe he will be open to look at this option. I guess at the mo, he doesnt want to look ahead and just adjust to one thing at a time (in his 'male' type of way! )

Im so grateful for your replies and so wish you both all the very best for your treatment. We are all at different stages of the 'hell', yet we can draw strength from knowing we all understand the pain it involves.

Take care

Lol

Mae


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## emma jayne (Oct 16, 2004)

hi mae i have just read that your dh had a hydrocele operation my dp was told when he had his ssr that he had lots of varicoceals(sorry cant spell) which are enlarged blood vessels. I looked this up on the net and it says that this could be a cause of infertility as it causes the testicle to over heat and become fibrosed therefore causing possible blockages? Im not an expert on hydroceles but have you looked into the possibility that this may have caused dh problem? I am a staff nurse and it really fustrates me when i dont have proper answeres from the doctors. I asked our consultant if he thought it was the varicoceals that were causing the problem and if they could be operated on? But he said that it doesnt really cause infertility and that there is no point in operating as he would probably need assisted conception anyway? Isnt it sooooooooo fustrating when you get conflicting information we just wanted to Know why?? But it doesnt matter as much now that we have got frozen sperm. Im feeling a bit more positive today and am thinking about starting second cycle of ICSI in early december once i have had a normal af.
I hope you and dh have sorted things out and that the advice you have been getting off here has really helped. It has really helped me as i felt like the only person in the world having to deal with infertility. Take care speak soon.
Emma Jayne xx


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## Gwendolyn (Oct 24, 2004)

Hi Mae and Emma Jayne!
Just so you know.....I do indeed go to bed   .....it's just that the time that is recorded on any FF posting ISN'T the time zone in "my world".  I live across the great Ocean from the UK!  I hope that doesn't make a big difference to you, as this site and your postings make warm to my soul!  FF came recommended by the sister of another "across the ocean" FF.  I am oh-so-grateful.

Emma Jayne....I neglected to share my sorrow regarding your 1st cycle of ICSI did not work out.  
I remember feeling so much hope with my 1st cycle of IUI....thinking that after all the nightmare we had been through over the year prior ....surely, we would be granted mercy and success would meet us!  It TRUELY guts you...leaves you unable to catch your breath really.  Plus, I really felt that the different ways that men and women grieve about this whole issue really becomes a set-up for friction and isolation in a relationship/marriage.  I agree with Mae....pamper yourself to the max!  It's all about doing whatever you need to do to get your body and spirit ready for the next time.  I tried acupuncture for my last IUI run.....was a bit skeptical about the whole deal....and though I did not end up with what I ultimately wanted....I must say that it brought me to a level of peace and relaxation that was very new and so very comforting.  Of course, it also means investing (more) $$$.......it never ends, does it!?   Just for the self-care aspect, I may give it another whirl this coming month.  What the heck do I have to lose?  I feel like I have to make these investments that seem so luxurious......because God knows we are spending enough on sperm viles and procedures!  The latter won't make any difference if my body is running on empty!

Mae....  I am so glad that you are able to reflect on the (tiny) steps that you and your DH have made in the past while.  I empathise in that your DH's steps are never as large as you are making!  Been there, my dear!
As I have indicated before....even with us having tried 3 x's with donor sperm and IUI....my DH still disappoints me in the way he can't be there for me and giving me space to open up fully.  I know that it is just that he is oh-so-vulnerable, like your DH.....and just doesn't know how to get beyond the "triggers" of his own sense of inadequacy.  When I began this whole donor sperm and IUI process, I just resolved to the process that it was going to be very daunting and that should I become pregnant- it was going to be a "difficult pregnancy"....because it would be a huge "trigger" for him.  I know in my heart that once the baby is in his eyes, that will all slide away....and that is what I try to focus on....and also encourage him to focus on (the RESULT, not the MEANS).  A girlfriend of mine reminds me to keep things in check and while we want our DH to be there for us always, the truth is- whether fertility issues or NOT- it is a big fat lie and illusion that our DHs are "always there" for us (though romanticism tricks ius to believing otherwise).  SO what do I do when he can't be there for me on any other issues....I go searching for a girlfriend.  In many ways, my selected girlfriends have pulled me up from the ground more than my DH on this fertility journey.  Maybe that is OK....not what I really preferred....but ultimately, it helped me to be healthier....and perhaps that "rubs off" on DH. (...that's what I keep telling myself anyway!    
I, like Emma Jayne....seem to be having a more positive day/evening today....what tomorrow holds- who knows.  

My DH's parents were over this evening and while his mother is in the know of 3 attempts at donor sperm and IUI...his father is not.  His father just knows that DH cannot conceive.  Anyway, DH's mother approached me about "how are things?" (loaded question!)...I said that we were taking a "breather"...maybe resume in the New Year (though we are planning for next month.....my gosh- we just need to preserve some level of privacy on this journey!!!).  She is requesting that we share what means we are taking with DH's father.  I know DH has been reluctant to take this step...thinking he would receive an unsupportive response.  So this will be our next hill to climb, I guess.  It does make sense why DH's mother would like this matter to be addresses...she just feels DH's father will feel very left out of the loop when/if we become pregnant....and hurt by this.  Plus, a little time to absorb might be appreciated.  I'll wait for an opportune moment to approach DH. 

ANyway- now I WILL go to bed!!!   Take care and I look forward to us continuing this contact


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## emma jayne (Oct 16, 2004)

hi mae and gwendolyn
gwendolyn thanks for yor little message it really means alot to think there is someone out there who cares. 
Ive just been out for a few drinks with my work friends, it feels so nice to go out and relax and to not talk about babies for once! most of my familie and friends have got young children and it gets me down a bit as this is the main topic of conversation? Well im going to bed now got to get up early in the morning for work. thinking of you both take care Emma jayne xx
ps. where are you both from and where are you having treatment(if you dont mind me being nosy?)


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## Gwendolyn (Oct 24, 2004)

A pleasure to hear that my words are helpful....who would have ever thought??  (....until I came to FF!)
I live in Canada...and I figure the odds are pretty remote that you are, too (....given that this is a UK based site).  
I am being treated at the Fertility Clinic at my local hospital in my home province.
Ever been this away? ...and what area are you from?
Cheers and good night, Gwendolyn


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