# "Couple sue IVF clinic for giving them twins"



## Banana Girl

CANBERRA (Reuters) - A lesbian couple in Australia are suing their doctor after they had twin girls from an in vitro fertilisation (IVF) procedure when they only wanted one child.

The two women are seeking more than A$400,000 (171,941 pounds) in damages to help pay for the cost of raising the second child, including private school fees, saying they made it clear to their doctor that they only wanted one baby.

The twins are now three years old and the civil case, the first of its kind in Australia, has prompted debate about the value of children and role of parents.

"The litigation involving twins already three years old undermines the importance of parenthood," conservative government Senator Guy Barnett said on Thursday. 


"We seem more intent on preserving and pandering to the wishes of adults, than we are in protecting the rights of children," he said.

Barnett called for banning same-sex couples and unmarried women from access to publicly-funded IVF services, sparking a new moral debate ahead of national elections, due at any time.

The case is being heard in Canberra, where letters published in the local Canberra Times newspaper overwhelmingly criticised the legal action after the birth of two healthy children.

"The child's identity is subsumed to the whim of the mother who has bought the sperm and paid the IVF clinic," columnist Angela Shanahan wrote in The Australian newspaper.


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## cleg

right i can understand that they didnt want more than one child but come on   they should be happy that they have been given this oppurtunity, my god do they realise how lucky they are

unbelievable

xxx


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## ♥sparklequeen♥

cleg said:


> my god do they realise how lucky they are


Obviously not


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## flamingo

Don't get me started!

How many embs were put back?  It is possible for one to divide into two!

Too right - how lucky are they - how sad - and what will the other child feel like when he/she reads all about this!

Dreadful!

See I'm started!

xx


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## cleg

well which child are they going to see as the 2nd ?? the last one out, absolutely pathetic, them children are going to grow looking at themselves wondering which one wasnt wanted  

xxx


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## ♥sparklequeen♥

*raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 

jfweuiacrhnweultvhnsethrnuictj,teruhvymhye5,weruia 

There, feel better now! 

Its unbelievable. Absolutely disgusting behaviour IMHO *


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## em3978

I saw this on the news page the other day... i didn't dare post it as my comments would have been pretty much as Sparklequeen!


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## Banana Girl

Feel guilty for posting it now, but I was so angry I felt I needed to share my outrage!!!!!

There are just SO many things wrong with it though arent there!!!?

The baehaviour of the women is beyond unbeleiveable, but then the fact that they are considering stopping lesbians and single women from having IVF because of these 2 nutters!!

What because obviously if they had had a man around he would have put some sense into their pretty little heads?


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## cleg

dont feel guilty BG  

if i had come across the article i would have posted it too

xxx


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ ©

This is so terribly sad...

...as Cleg says, how are they going to decide which child is 1st...and how awful for those children when they grow up and may come across these newspaper articles, only to see that both their mums didn't want one of them 

...and as flamingo has mentioned, an embryo can split into 2 so even if they'd only had one put back there would always be that chance...surely they were told of the risks of multiple beforehand, surely they have to agree & sign all the forms, just as we do here in the UK ?

I don't agree with the senators comments re single sex couples having treatment...it's unfair to group everyone together purely because of the selfish "wants" of one couple...but yes, this couple should be so happy to have the opportunity of having these twins.

N x


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## pem

I Can't believe what I am reading here...how dare they, they clearly don't realise how lucky they are, I hope they stub their toes on the door every day for a year.


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## Ellie.st

According to an article I read about this case, they agreed to have two embryos put back even though they were adamant that they only wanted one baby ....

I feel so sorry for the children, and am hoping, against hope, that regardless of the court case, they will both grow up feeling loved and wanted.


Ellie


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## kitten1

Just a thought but what would they do if both of the kiddies were boys?? Wonder if that would have any bearing on their 'decision'?? Would they have been 'happy' with a boy and a girl?? Or two boys?? Some people are never satisfied, are they?? Fertility treatment is a gamble, we all know that. But, they should be counting their blessings, not moaning about how 'unfair' it is that they now have, what I presume, are two beautiful little girls. (Lets face it, who has 'ugly' kiddies??)

   (The air is turning blue around me at their selfishness!!)


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## ZoeP

OMG, this is unbelievable...the selfish *******.


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## allison kate

Would they try and sue GOD if they'd been able to conceive the twins naturally?

Disgusting, money grabbing, selfish   As much as I hate to say it, they could have had elected reduction when they found out they were carrying twins but no, this way they can get their hands on as much money as possible

And what's worse is this case might stop many other, well deserving couples from having the possibility of trying for twins.

Absolutely appalling!


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## Mish3434

It sounds to me like they are just after the money   .  Yes I would of been shocked if I had got twins from my IVF but it would of been a happy shock!!! Some people just don't realise what a fantastic miracle any child is.  I feel sorry for the girls when they grow up knowing one of them is an inconvience  

Shelley x


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## Guest

I can not see how they will have a leg to stand on....

2 embies going back in - no guarantees of it not being twins
1 embie going back in - no guarantees of it not being twins

End of story.....they have thought nothing about the effect this WILL have on their girls - both of them, because as has been said....which IS the 2nd child   

They have no idea how lucky they are...

Greedy wotsits

xx


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## Ajax

2 words - bl00dy ludicrous!

       

Amanda x


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## Banana Girl

I reckon we should sue the couples parents for bringing them up so badly.


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## Skybreeze

I cant believe what I have just read!!!! Its unbelievable that people would be so self indulged!! 
If they didn't want twins then they should of had SET!!!! As they so clearly didn't want 2 children. Can you imagine what there poor children are going to go though when they are older, knowing there mums didn't want one of them. 

I would be over the moon, not gutted. Children are a blessing, not a right. 

These people disgust me.

Natalie x


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## Caterina

Hmmmm. I read it and cannot say my comments here!

Don't mean to wind us all up more...........but- anyone remember a young girl a couple of years ago who sued her hospital for the fact she tried to abort both gorgeous twin girls, and, 'shock horror', one actually lived. A very late abortion from what I remember. Gross. If that is not hateful enough, the poor surviving twin was about 5 years old and photoed on the double page spread!!

So, nice to know your mum 'got rid of/whatever you want to call it (I would be stronger)' your twin, but was so dissatisfied with you, she sued for your upkeep!!! If she hated her so much, she should have put her up for adoption as there are plenty of us out there who would consider adoption, let alone those who have been passed by the Panel who are still waiting!

ARGH!

And, anyway, as an identical twin myself- WTF would the silly cows have done if they had had SET and it had split"?? Hateful. Both of them.

Sleep well!
Cat
xxx


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## buster24

these people are sick, but i am afraid its the society we  live in, i am a nurse and people will try any way to get money, we had a lady who nearly died we treated her for weeks, she ended up in icu then back to us, family were called for, but in the end she thankfully got well and went home, i thought how lucky she and here family were to be given that second chance, then  few weeks later we got a letter A4 2 pages on how her teeth mug( a blue one) and her wally glue ( white tube with red writing)      had went missing on the transfer from icu, it must have been stolen       and the family wanted compensated       now that is a real kick in the teeth no pun intended, after the time you spend on these people, 
wish i could get 2 wee babies       maybe this time.
buster


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## Mia A

To the Lesbian couple - I'll have the other one!

To Allison Kate - if they could and did conceive naturally, they'd get a lot more money for it, but couldn't sue cos 'God is a DJ'

To Pem - they don't need to stub their toes on the door - they need to bolt their doors because if the general reaction is anything like the ones we have here, their toes and wotsits will get chopped off!

Mia


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## SAMW

I just cant believe some people!!!   Do they not realise how lucky they are? obviously not. 

What will they say to the children when they are old enough? I would hate feeling which one was the unwanted one  

Sam xxx


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## pem

This article below does bring more clarity to the situation. I think the previous one was written in a somewhat biased manner, I do still think though that is a somewhat ridiculous thing to do and they have not considered the impact of their actions at all either on the IF community, the lesbian mothers community and most importantly the feelings of the child concerned as she grows up.

Here's wishing luck and lots of succesful pregnancies to everyone.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/women-sue-over-receiving-ivf-twins/2007/09/18/1189881519913.html


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## bottleofwater

i thought there would be more to the story, I was going to reply before but hesitated as I know the press can make stories seems so plain and stupid.  Although I still am against suing others unless serious harm has occurred, I think this could cause them all more damage than good.  Going to court for any reason can ruin someones life, not only financially but emotionally. THe 400,000 australian dollars would only translate to about 135,000 pounds, not life changing but the court case could risk more than that.


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## guava

In a society that allows abortion as a 'choice', I can't say this surprises me. Though not religious, I have long since thought humans are trying to write a new bible, with all the new laws they are tring to create to bring about equality/fairness. When in reality many of these rules just stick the finger up to 'common sense' & just plunge us further down into unequality. Where 'common sense' can't even be used as a defense in court. Leading to numerous laws having to be drawn up & many stupid cases, like the case of a person suing a calender company for receiving a paper cut from that product. With all that's going on in the world, how does that really matter in any way!

If facts can't be proven beyond a doubt, humans often just allow those considered the brightest among them, to take their best guess, feeling that's all they can do. The fact their best guess is taken using machinery that is not all seeing & still contains human error, doesn't distract from their belief in their findings. The error that yes humans may feel agony/consciousness etc from the moment they exist 'conception', isn't going to affect them now. And in reality doing proper research on the effects of abortion to the mother & child, could put them out of business & possibly slow down the finding of cures that could benefit them directly. Stating it as being for the greater good, is all the argument they need for most. We should rename our species 'the borg' we seem to have more in common with those from a fictional series- star trek, than our own kind. Viewing each other as just objects, whose worth is only seen as what we can offer 'the collective', not individuals in our own right. But rather those to be dictated to, how to live, what our desires, goals etc should be.

The woman can't be blamed entirely for not wanting the twins she got. Society has created a society that now believes perfection is attainable, all the time, all you have to do is work hard enough & you can have it all. In reality it's not, but it doesn't stop most from trying to achieve it, sometimes even on pain on death- literally, not their own of course, their childs- via abortion. Children are expensive, but it's not like anyone in our society is ever going to be homeless or at risk of real unescapeable harm from having to look after little junior is it! On the contrary actually, having a child for many, actually guarantees the right to housing etc. There are sinister undertones surrounding childrens rights, private education etc. In reality rights that go beyond basic housing/food/clothing/education- that can all be provided by the state, are just parents getting one over on each other, in the competing stakes. Because yes, you may not see the savageness but we are still all competing with each other in the survival of 'our own'. The strategy even to murder other offspring, to give ours a head start, still being played out. Though clinically hidden away now, with sugar coated lies being used to groom the vulnerable victims, to willingly have their offspring tortured/murdered. Yet we are mostly after the same thing in the end, humans to evolve & create a fair/loving society, without ignorance & a circle of hate. But we haven't learned anything, the way we are going about it, obviously doesn't work! Evolution will come through our children, not science. Maybe sometimes we should just put that big old bible of science away & be human.

What I don't get about the case is why the 'embryo' human was not then removed upon the error being discovered. If she had at least two embryos, it begs the question what she thought was going to happen to the one that wasn't going to be put back, incinerated as clinical waste or defiled in experiments most likely, if she didn't donate to another person to be implanted. So having an embryo removed was likely an option she saw as ethically viable. Have to say, I don't, we are us from conception, when sperm & egg become one, that's just fact. And if she signed for two, then two is what she should have got. You would have thought when you were signing for the future of your child, you might actually bother to read what you were signing, wouldn't you!

Someone mentioned those children might feel 'unwanted', hopefully they would realize that it was society that drove their mother to feeling the way she felt & acting upon it. Just as those who live in foster care may have to deal with feeling society may have aborted them, if given a choice in retrospect of what to do with them. This could make them feel as though they are living a life viewed as not worth living. They too may harbour mis-placed resentment towards a parent. Even though the reason the parent is seen to have done wrong, may have actually been due to society placing unatural burdens upon them. Such as that dictated to us all the time, that you need to be married or in a stable relationship to raise a mentally stable child, you need to have a good job/money, you must be mentally ready for children etc. Children aren't born wanting to die, that doesn't happen until they have at least been preached to about our ideals, of two parents or at least one etc. The allowance of such a blatent dictatorship that can get away with preaching this, can only force them to grow up faster & see the extent of this worlds cruelty. Reality for a grown human can lead to dependance upon unhealthy tools to try to cope- drugs etc. Let alone what it can do to those still growing. They will be exposed to cerers full-time, & it's fact that those who have no mental responsibilty/connection to the child are more likely to abuse that child, though every child is at risk from carers even those just going to nursery, so in theory their risk of abuse is only just slightly increased. They also come to realize young that they won't get the good things reserved for those coming from money. That they will have to fight hard, because the society they live in, has made the cost of housing to keep us physically safe from each other so high. This due mainly to the obvious unfairness & inequality suffered by those, society has wronged. Plus the need to buy distractions such as DVDs etc to keep us mentally safe from each other, are ever present & essential to help us cope & become distracted from the harsh reality of the legal unfairness in the world. They are then ironically expected to contribute- work, paying tax that will in part fund abortions, the very thing that could have been used to torture/murder them. But they will have no choice in the matter, only to not work & go on benefits. Ironically if all those pro-life refused to work & encouraged their children not too either, this country couldn't function without them, & it would still have to feed them, as it's their human right. Without their money, the economy would sink, would kind of be interesting to see that though.

Don't think they have thought ahead to the future when they may want more children & may find certain doors closed to them after this. But then again making & murdering babies seems to just be a business industry, if they have the money & it's legal, I'm sure someone will accomodate them. The consequences of people wanting justice/rights creates work for those in the legal system. Some may come to suffer because of some of these rights created & they may seek councelling, this creates further employment for those in the mental health industry. It being obvious that jobs are more important than family these days, It's no wonder this case got the go ahead. The employment & tax cases like these create now & possibly even in years to come too, makes it very profitable to their economy.


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## caz24

hey girls x

i read this before and i hate everything about this bloody couple they are so bloody selfish     flamingo blew you some bubbles x 

its so cold today  
caz x


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## daisyg

Hi everyone,

Here is an interesting take on it from a famous blogger.............

http://alittlepregnant.typepad.com/alittlepregnant/

Daisy
x


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## clairekentuk

Ill do them a swap, infertility for their twins, id love twins especially if I didnt have them kicking me all night for 5 months!

Some people are so ungrateful, children are a gift not a commodity. They should be twice as happy.


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## Anthony Reid

Here is the link : http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1284999,00.html


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## CM01

Remembering to take everything presented in the media with a pinch of salt, and therefore not really knowing the true situation, I was interested to read this.  If DH and I had not fallen naturally pregnant, at some point we may have returned to our fertility clinic for further treatment.  Based on our history, we would have been ADAMENT that only one embryo be replaced.  There are many many reasons why people do not want the risk of conceiving twins, and I would be one of them.  If my doctor had mistakenly transferred two embryos, I would have hit the roof.  I don't know that I would have sued, but I would certainly expect an apology and an internal investigation.

Some people have suggested that she could have considered foetal reduction, however I think that for many people this is an entirely different issue.  When we discovered we had conceived twins naturally, we were offered foetal reduction.  We refused, for ethical and personal reasons.  

I'm not condoning what this couple have done, but I do know that things get very skewed in the press, and that we are all very quick to judge based only on what we have read - often just a paragraph, or even a headline.  The debate about ESET shows us just how heated both medical professionals and customers can be about conceiving twins, but the bottom line is, it's not a picnic.

xx Clare


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## hbrodie

successful ivf is a blessing, but for a sucessful twin ivf is a double blessing and they should be so happy and grateful! selfish moos


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