# Goldies IVF/ICSI Part 16



## saphy75 (Mar 15, 2004)

new home goldies

good luck 

  

pam xx


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## cygnus (Jan 28, 2005)

Dear Flopsy.
I have not posted much as yet, but  have read a lot of your contributions and understand how hard things have been for you, you have been through such a lot. I just wanted to say how very sorry I was to hear your sad news, and sincerely hope you are able to find a way through this difficult time.
With best wishes and hugs,


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## albali (Jan 22, 2004)

Hello everyone. Thought I would share my news with you. Whilst I'm waiting for this pg to just go off, wear off, generally just disappear I went for my scan today and it hasnt gone away. Its there and ticking away. The worrit in me wont stop but its there alright. I have to go back in 2 weeks again. Fingers crossed. love and luck  to you all. How are you Flopsy, Daisy, Jen?


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## Mummyof2 (Jul 31, 2003)

Albali - that is wonderful news    How far along are you now then?

Jenny


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## Flopsy (Sep 18, 2003)

Hi Goldies,

Sorry to have been so quiet.  Still feeling devestated and very low. 

Jenny, Ellie, KK, Mizz Gizz, Ayla, Lois, Sue  and Cygnus,  Thank you for all of your kind words and support. It really does help in these bad times to know that people care. Sorry for not replying to each of you individually.

Alibali - I'm so pleased/excited that this is all going well for you. Have you had any more scans or news?

With love from,


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## Flopsy (Sep 18, 2003)

Dear SJM,

Welcome to the Goldies. Sorry that I missed your post earlier and have taken so long to reply!

You have written so well about your situation and fears. It must still be very difficult to face IVF after your first husband abandoned you in such circumstances. You sound like a centred and brave woman.

With regards to the FSH some clinics have a cut off at 10 but many ladies on FF have been successful with a level over that cutoff and it does seem a bit arbitrary.

Is the nasal spray for a long cycle with downregging? I'm not sure of your earlier cycle but was it with downregging as well? Some clinics will only do short cycles on the over-40's due to stimms response problems. My last full cycle was a long cycle and it was my worst for embryo numbers.  I just did not respond to the stimms as normal after downregging and I have been told that this is a common problem on the over 40's.

It's also really difficult with male and female (age) factors to work out all the variables for success. Wishing you lots and lots of luck!

With warmest regards,


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## sjm (Nov 11, 2004)

Thanks so much for the reply.  My next appointment is a Day 20 appointment (11 April) at which time I will start to use Synarel nasal spray and then I will move onto Menogon injections.  I am not sure what you mean by short cycle / long cycle.  The tx I am following this time is the exact same as last time as I seem to have responded well to the actual treatment but just didn't make that final hurdle.

I have started to take Agnus Casti as I have read this can help with the FSH level - not sure if it is a bit late now but it is worth a try.

I will also look to post on the April/May Cycle buddies, this site has been a great help to me and I really appreciate the support and info I get from it.

Thanks again

SJM


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## DebbieB (Aug 5, 2004)

Hi SJM!

you are on the long protocol - the short one doesn't do the nasal spray.  My consultant says sometimes for us goldies, the short protocol works better, but it didn't work for me last time, so he says time for plan b!  We are all individual I guess, so you never know what will work better for you.  Good luck!

Agnus castus works well - I think you need to stop it when you start injecting as it might interfere with the hormones doing what the drugs want them to, so be careful!  

Debbie


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## Lois (Nov 7, 2003)

Hi Goldies

Really got some catching up to do................

Just wanted to say I'm thinking about you Flopsy - sorry I haven't been with you for this, but thinking of you very much.

Hi to everyone

Loisxxxxxxxxx


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## Plink (Mar 24, 2004)

SJM

Try also wheatgrass (www.nutricentre.com) they do tablets. I take 7 a day. Its supposed to lower fsh too. Goodness knows if it affects egg quality but, hey, its worth a try!

Plink x


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## albali (Jan 22, 2004)

Hello everyone. I havent posted or read on this site for a while for a number of reasons but mainly because I  have been holding my breath and not wanting to tempt fate. Well I can now because fate has intervened and I'm certain that this is the end of this one. I started to bleed a bit last night - and still am now at 7am. Coincidentally I changed my 8 week scan appt from Monday until today, so I will have a definite answer in about 3 hours. I have not been able to relax at all  since the BFP because of this risk, and now its happened. Not 100% but pretty much. Just a roller coaster all the way. When I felt sick I just thought it was imminent m/c; when I didn't I thought it was imminent m/c. I had a very bad feeling because I have had 2 deaths of people close to me in the last 2 weeks and I was just waiting for the third. Now I know. I think I must decide that old eggs are duff really. Not nice to admit but I think so. Theres always the exception I suppose (my sister pg and aboutto deliever in 8 weeks at one month off 45;  various other examples my nana at 48 and others that you have told me about) but I think  generally thats the case. So what do I do now? I suppose the 2 choices are no children or a DE. Or I suppose a third choice which is just to wait and see if anything happens naturally but i think I know the answer with that one. Reading everyones posts on the site, it is clear that  there are far more good stories on the DE site than generally so it looks like young eggs are good eggs.  Will post this before it disappears into the ether. thanks for all your support. Will keep posting of course. love albali


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Dear Albali

I really hope this is not the end, but I know you are on the dreadful rollercoaster now and I am so sorry.  You obviously have had a really awful time these last couple of weeks and I want to send you my best wishes.  There is nothing I can say right now except I am thinking about you and your DH.

Now is the time to look after yourself whatever happens.

Thinking of you.

Daisy
xxxx


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## Mummyof2 (Jul 31, 2003)

Albali - very very sorry to hear that you are bleeding   I hope that the bleeding is coming from somewhere else.  The site of the placenta can bleed or you can get bleeding from erosion caused by the progesterone pessaries so all is not lost yet.  I know how you feel though, having lost 3 babies myself to miscarriage - two at 6 weeks and one at 8.3 weeks (after seeing heartbeat).  We are now going down the adoption route and I am very much looking forward to getting a little child of around 18 months old (over 40s cannot adopt a child any younger than 18 months old) sometime next year.  There is a 3rd option other than donor eggs or no child 

Huge huge hugs to you and I hope that everything turns out ok after all.

Jenny


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## Flopsy (Sep 18, 2003)

Dear Albali,

Have been thinking of you and hoping all was OK. It's been an awful time for you on this rollercoaster and I'm hoping (and hoping!) that the bleeding does not mean the end of this pregnancy. 

Please let us know the results of the scan as we are all here for you.

With love from,


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## albali (Jan 22, 2004)

Just  walked in the door and its OK. The scan still showed it there and continuing. I cant believe it, I really cant. Without going into tmi, it wasnt just a spattering of a bleed, really measurable and just like teh last time, so I just cannot cannot  believe that its still there. I could hardly walk off the couch my legs were so weak. It took me about half an hour for my heart rate to come down so I could drive. 12 hours later, well 19 if you count from when the bleed first started and I'm exhauseted now. I was so stunned I didnt really quizz him about why but he said it wasnt from the placenta, could be the neck of the womb. Asked me when my last smear test was just to throw the the spectre of cervical cancer into my mind. When I'd come to my senses I phoned back inthe pm and confessed to lying on my stomach for 10 mins  for a leg wax the previous day and gentle intercourse (not the first time, I suppose just feeling a bit better and I read that it wasnt prohibited) and was told that i could lie anyway I liked but better to keep a chastity belt on  until 12 weeks. If they had told me that before I wouldnt have even thought of indulging. He thought perhaps it might be the progesterone and advised use a suppositories only form now on, rest and keep using the cyclogest and I'd be ok. What a shock. I wasnt crying wolf because it was sooo like last time that I couldnt reach any other conclusion - timing symptoms every thing. I suppose its always different. I wanted to write this as soon as I got in. Now I/m going to lie down with  a cup of tea- with my feet up. love albali


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## Flopsy (Sep 18, 2003)

Oh Albali,

OMG - I am so relieved!!! So very happy to read your news. What an awful shock for you and what a process of torture this is (not just the legwaxing...).

Enjoy your tea.  Hope the bleeding settles down.

With love from,


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Phew Albali,

So glad to hear this.  No more leg waxing or lying on your tummy (or anybody else's tummy!) now for a while.

Take it easy.

Wishing you all the very best.

Daisy
xxxx


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## sjm (Nov 11, 2004)

albali, great news, my heart sunk when I read your earlier post, you sounded so low but great result.  Take it easy.

SJM


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## DebbieB (Aug 5, 2004)

Hi Albali - I am so relieved for you too!  Hope things get easier now for you.  It's hard enough to go through all this tx without things happening during the pregnancy as well, and you seem to have had your fill!  Take it easy and think happy thoughts!!
lots of hugs

   

Debbie


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## Mummyof2 (Jul 31, 2003)

Albali - that is just FANTASTIC news - I am so pleased for you.  Only another 4 weeks and then you will be able to bd again   I am thrilled that all is ok, I really am     YIPPEE

Jenny


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## Megan10 (Jul 16, 2004)

Hi Goldies,
I think it is time for me to come and join you, if you will have me?
I am Megan and 39 years old facing the big 4-0 at the end of the year.
We have just had a negative reult from our second ICSI and are summoning the strength to go again in 2 or 3 months time. I have popped onto here from time to time and seen what a great supportive bunch you are and I hope I can be the same.

Albali, I was so delighted to see your good news. You must be so relieved.

The website which I thought might be of interest to some of you if you are not alreday aware of it. I haven't had a good look yet so no idea how useful it is. 
http://www.mothersover40.com/

Looking forward to getting to know you all,
MeganXXXX


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## Mummyof2 (Jul 31, 2003)

Megan - welcome to you. We are a bit quiet on this site nowadays for various reasons but I am sure someone will reply to you. Yes, it is a good site isn't it. There is also the site http://www.mothers35plus.co.uk/ which is good.

All the best

Jenny


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## Plink (Mar 24, 2004)

Hello Albali 

Hope that this loosing is over and things settle down-yes peobably a good idea to leave bd til later. Dont worry too much (I know thats easy to say) and also dont apologise that youre crying wolf-of course youre not -anyone would be concerned to have loss no matter what you read. I think youre brave to face it -I'd probably hide! Glad the scan went ok
Love Plink xx Take care


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## albali (Jan 22, 2004)

Hello Flopsy daisy Jen plink sjm debbie, than you for your lovely words. I think its settled down now. I'm back to the obsessive checking of course and denial again. Its a very good job that you cant buy your own scanning machine because i think I would be plugged into it permanently.  I could well understand those people who are addicted to sex phone lines - oh just another quick 3 minutes- every hour. That would be me with a scan. Just checking. And again. And again. Its exhausting all this turmoil, isnt it. I went to bed at 9.30 last night and fell fast asleep- fully dressed (took my boots off though). Not intentional to avoid contact, but it could have looked that way!!  I hadnt thought of the possibility of adoption. I thought the cut off was 40 and there was a huge shortage, so I never even considered it.  Hello to Megan. You've found the best site so welcome and good luck. Must go now and get changed! lots of love and luck, albali


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## Essex Girl (Apr 3, 2005)

Hello

I've just found this part of the site -was looking for over 40s sections but didn't twig that 'Goldies' was it.  I put my profile in the Introductions section (I don't know how to do the link to it, nor do I know how to put my potted history in purple at the bottom of my postings - help please!).  

Anyway, I'm 41 and just had a failed IVF despite having 6 eggs, all fertilised, 3 grade 1 embryos (2 put back), good womb lining, FSH of 5.9, but it still went the way of all my previous attempts - it implanted but then came unstuck just after the test.  It's very frustrating as I don't know if there is any more that can be done to improve implantation.  I'm going back to the clinic on 21st April and we will take it from there.

I am very conscious that time is running out, both for IVF and adoption - I went to an info meeting and they said that normally they don't want an age gap of over 45 years between the elder parent and the younger child, and my DH is now 48.  I would hate to spend time doing more IVF (own eggs or donor) which doesn't work and then find we are too old for adoption as well.  That really puts the pressure on.  Any thoughts would be appreciated

Ruth aka Essex Girl


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## DebbieB (Aug 5, 2004)

Hiya Ruth! Welcome - it took me a while to work it out too, so don't worry! As for the bit at the bottom, you have to go onto profile and then fill in the box that is named Signature.

Can't really give much advice about implantation, except to say that my homoeopath gave me some medicine to help with it and I am having acupuncture.  I don't know if it's going to help, but I'm willing to do anything!! 

I know when we were talking about adoption, they did say that about age, but is it that strict?  You'd think they would want to give a child a home for goodness sake!  Perhaps it is looser if you are willing to choose a child who has a disability (however mild) or an older child? Anyway, just a thought... 

Hi to everyone else - Albali, jen, sjm, Plink (sent you another mail!), flopsy and Daisy!   

Debbie
x


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## Mummyof2 (Jul 31, 2003)

Ruth, welcome to you.  We used to be called the Golden Oldies which would give more of a clue to being over 40 but then it got shortened over time to the Goldies.

I am going down the adoption route but it is a little different for me in that we have a natural son who is 4 years old and he has to stay the oldest by 2 years.  As I am over 40 (dh is 36) we cannot adopt a child under 18 months so our age range is very narrow!  We were told that usually they don't like a gap of more than 45 years between the age of the child and your age but there is no upper age limit at all to adopting itself.  They do like a gap of 6-12 months after finishing fertility treatment before applying to adopt and then the adoption process itself takes around 12-18 months so it is a long old haul.  If you want to adopt I would say do it asap unless you don't mind an older child.  Older children are wonderful but do have more parenting challenges as they have had more upsets in their lives and so are more traumatised when they arrive to live with you.  If you go for sibling groups quite often you will get a younger child that way ie 6 year old and a 4 year old.

Sorry to hear that your embies don't stay implanted   All I can suggest is looking on the Foresight site or Marilyn Glenville site and following their guidelines ie eat organic, no caffeine etc.

All the best to you

Jenny


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## DebbieB (Aug 5, 2004)

Hiya!

Hope everyone's going well  
Just came back from doc's to find that my thyroid is playing games again and I have to up my thyroxine - essential if I want to get pregnant, so I'd better sort it out! 

Plink - cannot send pm to you as it says it's full - think you have to go and delete the messages in your inbox so I can send it!

Debbie


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## Plink (Mar 24, 2004)

Hi Debbie

Aha! I will do the needful. I sent you IM yesterday.
Hope you get on the right dose of Thyroxine. Best of luck. I know tat can play havoc with things.

All other Goldies -dont give up-keep trying! (why do you have to do everything yourself! lol!)
Plink xx


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## Plink (Mar 24, 2004)

Debbie

I've deleted some of my lovely messages! Hope this does the trick.
Plink x


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## albali (Jan 22, 2004)

Hello everyone. Another week spent full time obsessing and checking, and my goodness I was "rewarded" yet again, with another repeat bleed episode. What is it about 11pm on wednesday nights. Week clear then the same. This time I  had to go back for a scan and although I wasnt as weak with fear as last time, I thought paradoxically it would be worse. But its not. Its still ok and I cant understand  how you can bleed like that and it still be ok. Where is it coming from, never mind why. I've now been told to rest  for 3-5 days and  keep taking the progesterone.  I understand sophis loren went to bed for the whole 9 months. Hope I dont have to  but probabaly would if I had to. How is everyone else faring?


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## crocodile (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi everyone

Just popped in here to see how albali is doing and everyone else..

Albali, my friend bled heavily (clots as well) throughout her pregnancy but gave birth to a very healthy chatty little boy who is now five....I know it must be worrying but it is quite normal for some people

Essex Girl I had the same sort of result on my first tx in sept, 5 eggs 4 fertilised and had 3 grade 1 embies put back 2 x 4 cell and 1 x 6 cell.  The embryologist said they were good and although a little slow (they expect to see 6/8 cell on a 3 day transfer) she fully expected them to divide later that day as it was an early transfer, but it didn't work and I actually bled day 10 post et.

Anyway when we went for our followup the consultant said that they were slow growing and that was down to my age and although we had a very good fertilisation rate, my eggs are not good and so he offered me donor eggs, which I was not prepared for him to say, as I thought our first attempt though a negative hadn't been bad...

We have now moved clinics to have another go after we come back from honeymoon (as I'm getting married next Saturday).  I understand your dilema.....and have thought long and hard...although we have talked about adoption I can't consider it seriously until I know we can't have our own 
Anyway good luck

Flopsy I hope you are ok, as last time you posted on the ARGC board you said you were having a few health problems...

Hello to everyone else...I haven't been on this thread for a while so am not up to date with everything hope you all are well

Croc


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## mj (Dec 21, 2002)

Hello everyone I hope you don't mind me joining in. I'm in between treatments at the moment. 

Albali, congratulations to you! I just wanted to say that a friend of mine, who was 40 at the time, bled very heavily during her first few weeks of pregnancy. She also thought something terrible was going on. However, she was told that what had happened was that when the embryo was 'putting out feelers' to latch onto the blood supply, it latched onto a large blood vessel which swelled into a bit of a blood sack and when it burst my friend thought she was miscarrying. But all was ok and she now as a lovely 3 month old girl.

I have a post-ivf consultation next Friday. Am slightly dreading him saying I should move onto DE - my embryos were good quality but very slow dividing.... I was told last time that it was because I was getting on a bit!

Good luck to all
Mandy xxxxxxxxxx


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## kelly-michelle (Nov 28, 2002)

Hello Ladies,  sorry I've not posted for quite a while but just been trying to remain focused and channel my energies into all the other less important priorties in life like housework,diy,gardening oh yes and of course work,etc. Anyway Alibali wonderful news for you and DH. I'll keep praying for you. As for me well we have another donor. I've had a withdrawal bleed and I'm due for a scan on Tues so it could be a matter of weeks before ET. I've got a real good feeling about this as apparently our donor also phoned in saying that she was also on day 1 of her period. I'm still keeping grounded and strong for us both because if it's meant to happen then it will.
Thinking of you all  Kelly


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## sjm (Nov 11, 2004)

Hi everyone,

I start my Menogon injenctions on Monday, feeling excited.  This is my 2nd ICSI treatment and feeling so much more nervous than the last time (probably because everything seemed to go so well but no pregnancy at the end).  Last time I had no side effects from the nasal spray however this time I did, hoping this is a good sign.  

Next scan is Monday 25th April, will keep in touch to let you know how it goes.

Glad to have this thread.  Thank you.

SJM


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## DebbieB (Aug 5, 2004)

Hello ladies!
Fingers crossed for you sjm!    
Good luck to you Mandy and Kelly - hope things go well for you both.

I start sniffing on Tuesday    Hope I don't have too many side effects!  Have warned the teacher I work with at school, so she won't be surprised/upset if I am over-emotional or ratty!

Sending lots of fairy dust
 

Debbie


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## Rice cake (Aug 31, 2004)

Entry on another site

Old Egg Theory Challenged 

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Scientists Find Indications That Ovaries May Be Replenished
NY Times ^ | March 10, 2004 | Natalie Angier




Challenging the bedrock verity of mammalian biology that a female's eggs, like private reserve wines, are made one time only, in limited numbers, and are apt to turn to vinegar if left on the shelf too long, researchers have found startling evidence that the ovaries may instead be replenished with new eggs throughout a female's reproductive career. 

Dr. Jonathan Tilly and his colleagues at Harvard Medical School and the Massachusetts General Hospital report in today's issue of the journal Nature that they have discovered multiple signposts of germ-line stem cells in the ovaries of young and adult female mice: powerful and many-talented cells capable of generating a fresh batch of immature egg "seeds," as well as the nourishing ovarian infrastructure needed to bring these oocytes to fruition. 

Moreover, the stem cells appear to be quite active, indicating that they are not a pool of insignificant holdovers from fetal development, but rather are busy creating new little egglets and their follicle housing on the surface of the adult ovary. Follicles are fluid-filled capsules in which oocytes (pronounced OH-oh-sites) ripen into fully formed eggs, capable of being fertilized. 

If confirmed by other researchers, the results would upend a doctrine adhered to by reproductive biologists for the last 80 years: that a female mammal is born with all the oocytes and follicles she will ever have, and that her stock of eggs is steadily depleted until the procreation pantry is bare. 

Males, by contrast, have long been known to possess germ-line stem cells in their testes that manufacture large batches of new sperm throughout adulthood. 

And should the process of egg renewal prove to be at work in humans, the ramifications, reproductive biologists agree, are profound. "The mind boggles at the implications," said Dr. Roger G. Gosden, scientific director of the Jones Institute for Reproductive Medicine at Eastern Virginia Medical School in Norfolk. "The ability to make more eggs would be a revolution in women's health. In theory, it would allow you to have better control over the timing of menopause, to grow more eggs for one's own fertility treatment, to prevent premature menopause, to recover fertility after chemotherapy, and on and on." 

Some results from the new study hint at the existence of egg stem cells in adult women, yet Dr. Gosden and others also caution that it is far too early to retire the familiar "no new eggs" doctrine. 

"There is still a long march to go, and much strong evidence needs to be provided," said Dr. Ri-Cheng Chian, an expert in egg biology in the department of obstetrics and gynecology at McGill University in Montreal. 

In fact, the new results are so dramatic that Dr. Tilly admits that at first he doubted them himself. "We had a six-month period of disbelief and trouble digesting the whole thing," he said. "The shock people may feel on seeing this paper, trust me, we went through it as well."



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TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: HEALTH; OOCYTE; OVARIES; OVARY; STEMCELL


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## Essex Girl (Apr 3, 2005)

Thanks for your thoughts, and all the best to Crocodile for your wedding - was it yesterday or next Sat?  Great news either way.  I suspect I will be told the same about my eggs, as the ones they didn't use for ET had not made the blastocyst stage by day 5, so they may be a bit slow-growing.  We see the consultant this Thurs so will ask him then.  I have looked at Marilyn Glanville's site and it sounds as if agnus castus may be worth a go.  

Good luck to Albali - we'll keep our fingers and toes crossed for you.  We need some success stories among the Goldies to keep our spirits up!

Best wishes to all the rest of you.  Ruth aka Essex Girl


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## mj (Dec 21, 2002)

L - thanks for this article. I found it quite encouraging and very interesting. Fertility is such a new science when you think about it.

Ruth - I just wanted to ask why you know what happened to your embryos on day 5? At my hospital they're left to 'perish' after embryo transfer which is always day 2 or 3.

lol to everyone
Mandy xxx


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## albali (Jan 22, 2004)

Hello all. Thanks croc and mandy jane for your stories about other people who have had this happen to them and it all worked out well. Its nice to have some kind of explanation even if its someone else  who has had it. And thanks kelly for your thoughts. I wish you luck with the  "business". Best wishes for saturday croc also. As for me, slowly does it. If I hold my breath for much longer I will pass out, but I seem to manage it!! I just keep counting the days, hours even, waiting for  landmark weeks to pass - 8 weeks, 12 weeks. I imagine that if I get to 12 weeks I'll be OK, but I think that feeling will never come until, if,I get a healthy baby at the end. I know what worry feels like now. Just to add tothe other ones that we have all felt - anger, despair, bitterness.  I'll keep posting. love to all albali


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## Essex Girl (Apr 3, 2005)

Hello mandyjane

In answer to your question, my clinic decide on day 2 whether they will do the ET on day 3 or 5 (blastocyst transfer) but went for day 3 as I only had 6 eggs and not all were grad 1 quality at that stage.  They normally like a minimum of 6 grade 1 embryos before they will let you go to blastocyst transfer, because of the risk of none of them making it to day 5 if you haven't got many.  However, as my rejects included 1 grade 1, they said they would grow the rest on to day 5 and see whether any of them made it to blastocyst, and could be frozen.  Sadly, none of them did (I gather that slow-growing eggs are also a feature at our age) so they were all left to perish.  I hvae since learned from this site that clinics do have a discretion to put back 3 embryos and if I do this again with my own eggs, I will ask about that.  I think I have less chance of conceiving triplets than winning the lottery jackpot!

Seeing the consultant again tomorrow and will update you then

Ruth aka Essex Girl


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## Badger (Feb 5, 2005)

hello everyone

I wondered if I could join you? I am 9 weeks pregnant today and I am due a week before my 40th birthday.

I had to go private for my treatment, but was handed back to the NHS this week. I met with my midwife for the first time yesterday and I was not impressed. I was under the impression that she would ask lots of questions about my family's medical history and take blood tests and arrange scans etc. All she did was give me a handful of booklets and ask which hospital I wanted to give birth in - as I live in the middle of nowhere I have a choice of 3, all about an hour away but as I have never done this before I don't really know what to ask or how to choose.

I asked about tests for downs etc and she said I could have a blood test but if I wanted a Nuchal I would have to pay for it. She said there was a booklet on testing for Downs in my pile but she hadn't read it! I also asked about scans and she said as I knew exactly when I was due I couldn't have a scan until I was 20 weeks. She then made another appointment for 4 weeks time and that was it. She didn't even take my blood pressure. 

I wanted to hear from others if this was normal, she wasn't unpleasant it just didn't seem very reassuring and I assumed that as I was an older first time mum I would get a few more tests. And all the questions had to come from me, she didn't seem to want to offer any information unprompted.

Thank you in anticipation

Heidi


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## Mummyof2 (Jul 31, 2003)

Hello Heidi, congratulations on your pregnancy.  I got pregnant naturally when I was 39 and had nuchal testing at 11 weeks (non invasive specialist scan) for down syndrome on the nhs as I didn't want any invasive testing with the chance of a miscarriage that brings.  I live in Wolverhampton but had to travel to London for the nuchal on the NHS. My GP referred me.  If I wanted a nuchal scan closer to home I had to pay for it privately but it only costs about £150 so not too expensive.  I had a soft marker scan at 20 weeks at the same hospital (Kings College in London).  I also had a dating scan at 12 weeks and an anomoly scan at 21 weeks at my local hospital.  My son was born when I was 40 and 7 months and he was fine    Sure your child will be as well.

The blood test the midwife mentioned is very prone to giving false positives for downs for women of our age and then they insist on giving you a amnio so I would refuse to have it if I was you and concentrate on getting the nuchal sorted asap as it has to be early on and you are already 9 weeks. 

The midwives don't see you regularly until you are very far along - about 25 weeks I seem to remember and it doesn't get weekly until the last few weeks so it is normal that she doesn't want to see you for a few weeks now.  Sorry about her attitude but to her it is no big deal that you are pregnant as she sees lots of pregnant women daily but, of course, to you it is a very big deal after all your struggles to get this far.  Take no notice of her and refuse to let her attitude spoil your special time  

I am not sure if you realise but you have posted on the over 40s and trying topic ie Goldies.  It is not very clear from the title.  I suspect that you are hoping to join older ladies and pregnant topic?

All the best to you

J


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## mj (Dec 21, 2002)

hi Ruth, thanks for the explanation. My clinic doesn't go to blastocyst stage unless you insist, I've always wondered what would happen to my embryos if they did. I had my cosultant appointment today and it was better than expected. He didn't suggest donor eggs which is what I thought he'd say. He said, give it another year before thinking about it. Anyway due for my next antagonist cyle in June. 

How did your appointment go?
Mandy xx


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## Badger (Feb 5, 2005)

Thanks J for your reply it was very helpful and will give me some more to go on. Also thanks for pointing out about the nature of the site - I hadn't realised it was for those currently in treatment Oops.

Cheers Heidi x


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## Mummyof2 (Jul 31, 2003)

Hi Heidi, glad to have been of help and hope that all goes well and you have a lovely pregnancy with a wonderful baby at the end of it.

All the best

Jenny


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## sjm (Nov 11, 2004)

Hi ladies,

I went for my first scan today and like last time it looks like my right ovary has not responded to the drugs although the scan showed 8 follicles on the left ranging from 9 to 17 and an Endo of 10.8 which is apparently quite good so I am pleased,

Next scan on Wednesday.  Will let you know how it goes.


SJM


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## Mummyof2 (Jul 31, 2003)

SJM - Good luck for the scan on Wednesday - hope all goes well.


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## mj (Dec 21, 2002)

hi SJM, 8 follicles from one ovary is excellent. You must be delighted.
Good luck for tomorrow. 
mxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## sjm (Nov 11, 2004)

A quick update.  I had my second scan on Wedesday and the follicles had grown to a size for egg collection (that is quicker than last time when it was after the third scan before there had been sufficient growth).  Still only one ovary though. Egg collection happening tomorrow at 7am - possibly 6 or 7 follicles.  All going well egg transfer will be on Monday.

Fingers crossed everyone for fertilization.

Know how lucky I am to get this far.

SJM


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## mj (Dec 21, 2002)

hi SJM, lots of love and luck for your tomorrow and over the weekend.

mxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Mummyof2 (Jul 31, 2003)

Good luck smj    Hoping for a   for you.


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## kelly-michelle (Nov 28, 2002)

A very big hi to all. Has anyone heard from Albali? Our donor is responding well. I Had an OK scan on Weds and got a call today that DH may be required to provide on Tuesday  (got to call on Mon am) Then it's my turn possibly on Thursday for ET. We're both feeling quite strange as we were at this stage only a few months ago (unfortunately not enough eggs from donor) 
I'm going to have a really relaxed looonng weekend and try to think about anything but this that's why I'm still up at this hour. 
Ladies  to you all. POSITIVE THOUGHTS ONLY from now on. All of you have helped me to this stage and I wish you all that you wish for yourselves.

Love
Kelly


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## Mummyof2 (Jul 31, 2003)

Kelly - good luck and I hope all goes well and it won't be long until you get  

All the best

Jenny


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## sjm (Nov 11, 2004)

Good news.

We got 7 eggs from egg collection, 5 suitable for fertilisation, 3 fertilised but only 2 split into cells.

We were told that 1 was very good with 10 cells and today we had both eggs transferred and now we go through the hardest part - that long wait until the pregnancy test on May 13th,

Although we were a bit disappointed at first to only get 2 eggs we truly realise how lucky we are to get this far and after all it only takes 1.  I am off work now until next Monday and am being well and truly pampered.

I will move on to the 2 week list but keep checking in here as I like to keep up with the you ladies,

Thanks for your best wishes.


SJM


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## Mummyof2 (Jul 31, 2003)

Sjm - all the best to you for that


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## DebbieB (Aug 5, 2004)

Hey sjm - well done!  you only need 1 to take honey, so hang onto that thought!!  Fingers crossed for you   

Debbie


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## Plink (Mar 24, 2004)

Hello Goldies

Good luck Debbie!! Be in touch soon - I've had dose immune stuff then another doise in about 10 days. Hope levels come down.
Best wishes to other Goldies

Love Plink


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## Martha Moo (Jan 30, 2004)

Hiya

Just popping in to leave a sprinkling of 

SJM hiya honey 

Just wondering if anyone has heard from Albali??
If anyone hears from her could they send her my love, i was on cycle buddies december snowflakes

Love and   

Emilyxx


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## DebbieB (Aug 5, 2004)

hiya Plink! Good luck with your tx!
I'm usually on the iui to ivf girls site and the april/may angels in cycle buddies if you want a chat - been missing your emails!  

I'm on day 4 of stimms, and just getting used to the needles again . Scan on Wednesday - fingers crossed!

hi to sjm and Jennifer and everyone else!

Debbie


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## albali (Jan 22, 2004)

Hello everyone. Sorry to have been  absent for so long, but  I havent dared log on and its very difficult typing with all your fingers crossed. Its been a bit  of a long haul but I'm now 13 weeks and waiting for the midwife to arrive to do my booking appt so I can write something and not panic -well, too much . I've been off work resting as i have had bleeding which has been worrying - for 3 weeks - but its stopped now. I only stop worrying for about 24 hours after a scan where they say its still there, etc. So just to say to everyone still trying, remember it only takes one. especially sjm , you're just there at the moment. And kelly-michelle. I have a good feeling for you and your ET. I'll keep some of my fingers crossed for you. And hello eyore. Thanks for your good wishes.I havent been onto the snowflakes site, because I think I was last on and very slow anyway and everyone was moving somewhere else, so I'm on here, being a goldie. love and luck to you all. albali


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## Mummyof2 (Jul 31, 2003)

Albali - wow 13 weeks - that's great news.  You are certainly an inspiration to us goldies.  

All the best


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## sjm (Nov 11, 2004)

Alibali, so excited for you.

I only have a few days until I find out my result.  Nothing unusual happening to my body and don't really know which way it is going to go.  I keep wishing I could feel really different and have metallic tastes and other early pregnancy signs to make me feel it is a yes and then I think I could be one of those who experience nothing unusual at all and so I might stilll be pregnant.  Mind games just don't help during this time.

Inspired by this thread and fingers crossed for success for everyone.

SJM


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## Plink (Mar 24, 2004)

Albali
thanks for posting -you are brave and very good luck. you are doing the right things and you just keep going. Look after yourself ++ thanks for pm,  it's no end of help and generous of you and all the girls thinking of others.
Love Plink


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## Hels21 (May 9, 2005)

Hi  I've posted a couple of messages this week but am new to this site.  What a great thing to have found though.  I think I'm probably more suited to the 'goldies' now!  Turned 40 last year and have found it quite upsetting that my consultant does keep saying (and very honestly) that the fertility rates and chances to conceive drop so much at 40 +.  Trying to be positive about it and will hopefully be trying IVF by end July.  Still going through tests, etc at the moment to check my levels.  We've been ttc for 3 years, with one pregnancy in 2003 resulting in a miscarriage.  I know lots of other people have much more difficult situations than me and the words that are written here are very touching; I applaud you all for your courage.  Regards Hels


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## Mummyof2 (Jul 31, 2003)

Hels - welcome to you and all the best for your treatment.  It can be done - look at Albini and she is 46 and pregnant with her own eggs.  I got pregnant with twins aged 42 and again last September aged 44 but lost them all to miscarriage.

All the best


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## Flopsy (Sep 18, 2003)

Hi Goldies,

Sorry to have been so quiet for so long!  We had our followup appointment at the ARGC and agreed that we are no further forward with understanding what is going wrong. I've been doing my own blitz of the medical journals etc and suspect that the TESE'd sperm we have may have too much DNA damage. There are a few options to consider but we have no funds as the last failed cycle wiped us out.

Albali - have been thinking of you each day and hoping all is OK. Can well understand why your fingers are still crossed!  I'm so pleased that all is going well and hope that the rest of this pregnancy flies with a nice little bundle of baby at the end.

SLM - Not long to go now. Hoping for another Goldies success for you!

Hels - Welcome to the Goldies. Many if us are on the same boat and trying to beat the odds and have a child with our own eggs. It's really hard to keep focused with a pessimistic consulant but women over 40's have babies all the time and we can only hope that it will be one of us.

Kelly-Michelle - did you get your donor eggs after all?  Hope that it all went smoothly and well.

With love to Jenny, Mandy, Plink, Daisy, Lois, Debbie, Ruth, Maureen and all the Goldies from,


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## Mummyof2 (Jul 31, 2003)

Flopsy - sorry to hear that you are no further forward with understanding what is going wrong.  How frustrating and disappointing for you both    Hugs to you and keep in touch    As for me we have passed our adoption preparation course with excellent results and are now waiting to start the next stage which will be a home study which takes 6-8 months.  This adoption is certainly not a quick thing but then after ttc no 2 for over 3 years I am used to waiting  

Love from Jenny x


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## albali (Jan 22, 2004)

Hello everyone. Well I'll tell you guys before anyone else (apart from dh of course) since  I've told you all everything else, we went for a 14 weeks scan yesterday and its a boy. Didnt think you could tell that early on but there it was, with an it, clear as day. i can forget about the first half  of the baby names book now! It appears to have everything else it should have, so I'm in a real dilemma now about an amnio. Which brings me onto my word of warning for you all about the availability of tests on the NHS.  I went for my booking appt witth the NHS and having asked the midwife about tests and been told that this counselling would be at this hospital appt, i listened to all the info about triple test and amnio. I know about nuchal fold and (now about nuchal transluscency) test already so just assumed that at my age, having told them it was an ivf pg at 46, they would do this other test. Noone breathed a word about it and at 4am I woke up and realised that they werent going to do it. So to cut a long story short, I had to hare off to a private place to get it done. They didnt tell me even about the test because they dont offer it on the the NHS. As a consequnce of my experince they day the are now going to change their practice and give all options to screening test, NHS or private. What I didnt know is the tight window of opportunity to do this test, so I'll tell you in case you didnt know. Its 11-13 week. Cut off point, absolutely is 13 weeks and 6 days. I was  13 and 6 days  on weds when I HAD to go. WhenI go thtere I discovered tht  there are two tests - translucscency and fold. T is done earlier and is slightly more accurate ( 85%) and fold until 13 wks 6 days which is 77%. I just thought if they can test at 11-13 they can test at 14, but its an absolute NO. I said to the woman, if I had lied about my dates, would you still  have done it and she said  its downto babay size so if it was too big then I would say no . So , rant,  rant  they are going now  to tell about this test. Its available with other NHS trusts- post code lottery again, but I think its terrible that they do not give full options to inform a person's decision on whether to have the invasive diagnostic test which is the amnio. i'd better stop now. Just wanted to let you all know because with luck you'll need these tests.  Will post later to say hell to everyone but have to go to work now. love and luck to you all. albali


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## DebbieB (Aug 5, 2004)

hello ladies!

Wow, alibali, what a long message!  Good info though, well done! And all the best for a wonderful pregnancy 

I don't have any good news I'm afraid.  Went for a scan on Wednesday and had absolutely no follies at all, so they've abandoned the cycle.  Age and thyroid issue may have contributed to it.  I hadn't allowed for that scenario, so was in shock. The consultant said he would be willing to try again with me when I get back from summer hols in August, on a short protocol.  Will have a think over the summer.  Feeling a bit devastated, but carrying on as if it's all ok.  I guess we've all done that before.

love to all
Debbie


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## Anne_7 (Mar 20, 2005)

Hi SJM!

you are on the long protocol - the short one doesn't do the nasal spray.  My consultant says sometimes for us goldies, the short protocol works better, but it didn't work for me last time, so he says time for plan b!  We are all individual I guess, so you never know what will work better for you.  Good luck!

Agnus castus works well - I think you need to stop it when you start injecting as it might interfere with the hormones doing what the drugs want them to, so be careful!  

Debbie 

Hi Debbie,

Just wanted to let you know that I am on the short protocal and I am taking the nasal spray.  Take nasal spray from day 2 of cycle the injections from day 3.

Anne


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## albali (Jan 22, 2004)

hello again. Didnt say hello to everyone last time - too busy with the shortcomings of the NHS. SJM - not long now, I had absolutely no symptoms - still dont . Kelly -M  Where are you up to? Proabably not logging on due to worry, like me. Jennifer, I have to admire your patience. You are very sanguine about this but as yousay, we all get used to waiting ages for everything. Plink, hope youre well. Hels21- you've founda great place here. i think its kept my sanity because you get advice and reassurance here that you  just wont get  from the medical profession when they are treating you. They cant of course, and so you are left  desperate for other info and histories to compare against your own. its invaluable. I was told all about the diminished  chances and advised to go straight for DE as my chances were negligible, but as everyone on here will tell you, its only takes one. Keep your eye on the ball, so to speak. Flopsy,  you're the inspiration on here. What  a stony road you are on at the moment. I dont doubt that you'll consider your other options. As for finanaces, I just thought to myself that I have the rest of my life to recover financially from this business, but only a limited span of time in which I could do it biologically .  Ijust kept that in my mind as i was writing out all the chqs. Also dp isnt working at the moment so I thought that when he does, that would make it easier also. I am sure you have got to the nub  yourself from your own research and I just hope you can find the strenght to carry on. Thinking of you. Debbie B -that happened to me, no response at all and  they said it was  the corpus luteum still being prolonged by the drugs which was stopping the other hormone action. Just a thought.  better go now love and luck to all, albali


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## kelly-michelle (Nov 28, 2002)

Hi all, sorry that I've not posted for a while. Unfortunately none of our 4 eggs fertilised. It was quite devastating to get the news whilst I was at work then I had to ring Dh. He was so    This time really got to him. I had a couple of days off, which helped. Mum was really good too. We're seeing the consultant soon, apparently it's standard procedure.
Albali you've been in my prayers and I'm so so happy that all is well. 13 weeks that's great. Thanks for being my inspiration.
We're not giving up hope yet because maybe next time is our time. 
Love to all 
Kelly-Michelle


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## Plink (Mar 24, 2004)

Hi Albali

Thanks for the mention. I agree re the sympathy stuff and NHS. You wont even get that in private clinic! I've had 2nd Humira job. Bit tired at present but staying up late on computer and subsequent fatigue cant be blamed on the Humira!lol. Bit sore throat shivers and cold at mo but to be honest no other real s/e To be honest if I hadnt had the cold and chill I'd be wondering if it was working at all.
Love Plink
good luck to all Goldies


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## DebbieB (Aug 5, 2004)

kelly-michelle - sorry to hear your news   hope the consultant can shed some light on it and give you some hope for the next time  

Plink - hope you feel better soon!   How long do you have to have that tx for?

I am having difficulty deciding what to do next.  the consultant said he'd give it another go in August (short protocol) but now I'm thinking maybe it's not meant to be and that I'm too old.  Maybe I should give up and just be happy with the one dd I have.  Anyone else have to make that decision and how did you do it?

lots of love to all
Debbie


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## sjm (Nov 11, 2004)

Hi girls, I haven't been on for  a few days but just to let you know that we got a negative this time too.  Have also had my follow up appointment and there is no reason for us not to try again as we got eggs and 2 fertilised, one really good qualit.  They don't really recommend going beyond a 3rd time.

Anyway think we are going to give it 1 more try in September after our holidays.

Thanks for all you support.

SJM


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## crocodile (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi everyone

Just back from honeymoon and straight into a monitored cycle with the ARGC and what do you know.....inspite of losing weight, two weeks sunbathing, lots of lazing about, sleep, massages and eating healthily my FSH has gone up to 13.4 which is the highest reading I have had, spose my age is finally taking its toll on the hormones 

Anyway great to see that your pregnancy is progressing well Albali

And so sorry to see some sad news for SJM, Kelly and Debbie....

Hi to everyone else  

Maureen


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## DebbieB (Aug 5, 2004)

Sorry to hear your news SJM!    good luck for September! 

Maureen - glad you had a good time on honeymoon!  don't worry about your fsh hon, I have been told in no uncertain terms that it really doesn't tell you much.  some doctors still go by it, but the professor who I see here has had women our age with really high fsh's who go on to get loads of follies.  I managed 2 when mine was around 10.  So don't panic!   

Having said that, I don't know what to do either, so who am I to say?!

love to all
Debbie


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## Rice cake (Aug 31, 2004)

Older father link to birth defects 
Dr. Kirsty Horsey, Progress Educational Trust
07/23/2005

[BioNews, London] The risk of having a child born with certain congenital problems may increase with the father's age, US and Danish researchers say. In a study of over 70,000 births, published online in the journal Human Reproduction, they report that the risk of Down syndrome and other conditions begins to increase in children fathered by men aged over 35. The results could be due to genetic mutations in sperm caused by biological or environmental factors, the researchers say.

It is known that the rate of genetic errors in a man's sperm-producing cells increases with age, and previous research has suggested a link between increased paternal age and certain genetic conditions. However, the strong association between older mothers and a raised risk of conditions such as Down syndrome has hampered efforts to investigate the impact of paternal age. In the latest study, the team looked at data from 71,937 firstborn babies born in Denmark between 1980 and 1996. All had mothers aged between 20-29 years, to reduce the potentially confounding effects of increased maternal age.

The researchers found that there was no overall increased risk of birth defects related to increasing paternal age. However, they did find a link between older fathers and a raised risk of certain conditions - including Down syndrome and some syndromes involving multiple body systems or limb malformations. Compared to younger men aged between 20-29 years, the incidence of Down syndrome increased by 15 per cent in men aged over 35, rising to 30-40 per cent in fathers over 40. In men over 50, the risk was around three times higher that of younger men.

Previous research has shown that 5-9 per cent of Down syndrome cases are caused by a chromosome abnormality (an extra copy of chromosome 21) inherited from the father. The scientists say their results suggest that a high paternal age - as well as a high maternal age - could be 'an indication for screening'. They conclude that 'advanced paternal age may be associated with an increased occurrence of some specific malformations, including Down syndrome'.
07/23/2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Mummyof2 (Jul 31, 2003)

Hi everyone,

Just a quick update on me.  We are still going along the adoption route and go for our medicals early next month.  We got so fed up with the slowness of the Local Authority we were with that we swapped to another one which is much quicker.

Albali - hope all is going well with your pregnancy and your little boy.  I didn't get any info on tests from my doc/booking in nurse when I was pregnant with my little boy, other than the usual blood tests.  Had to do all the research myself as there was no way I was having an amnio with its risk of miscarriage.  I did get my nuchal done on the nhs but had to travel to London to do this and had to be referred by my GP.  I went for a follow up test at 20 weeks (also in London).  My combined nuchal score meant it was unlikely that my son would have downs and indeed he doesn't.  I was 40 when I gave birth.  When I was pregnant last time I looked into going to London again but sadly miscarried.

Plink - no update on you on this thread?  I hope all went well.

Kelly-Michelle - very sorry to hear that none of your eggs fertilised back in May.  Any more treatment planned?

Debbie - are you all set for short protocol in August?  My consultant told me that he felt short protocol would be the way forward next time when I failed to respond to long protocol and had to have a cancelled IVF.  After two IVF attempts and one cancelled one and two IUIs and one cancelled one and 3 miscarriages we have felt enough is enough and given up and are now adopting.

SJM - sorry to hear that you got a negative back in May.  Are you going to try again in September?

Maureen - glad to hear that you had a good honeymoon but what a shock to hear that you had high fsh reading.  I regularly read that agnus castus is good for bringing down fsh levels.

Ricecake - yes I had come across that older father and birth defects bit before.  Also that if your partner has high abnormal forms (like mine) then that increases the chances of miscarriage.  I have had 3 miscarriages.

All the best to all the Goldies


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## Anne_7 (Mar 20, 2005)

Hi Ladies,

Just wanted to inform you guys of one lady on the July/August thread who is 41 has produced 35 eggs from her 36 follies!!! I thought this was fantastic news and wanted to share it with you guys.  She had taken 300iu puregon and busserelin injections 20 units.  Trying to find out what protocol she was on.

Anne, X


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## Mummyof2 (Jul 31, 2003)

Thanks Anne, for taking the trouble to let us know.  Fingers crossed for her and


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## Anne_7 (Mar 20, 2005)

Hi Ladies,

Just got a news letter from my clinic, very interesting. Just thought I would pass it on to you.

US researchers have managed to grow human eggs in the laboratory, using cells scraped from the surface of ovaries. The team say that the findings could lead to a new way of preserving female fertility, and also a potenial new source of egg cells for embryonic sted (ES) cell research. The scientist also say that the research casts doubt on the long-held belief that baby girls are born with a lifetime's supply of mature eggs.

It is thought that a woman's ovaries contain about two million egg-producing follicles at virthm but that this number falls to around 400,000 by the time she reaches pubertym and continues to drop throughout her life. However, recent studies have challanged this dogma, suffesting that new cells and granulosa cells may originate from stem cells found on the surface of adult ovaries. To test this theory, scientist scraped off some of these cells, know as ovarian surface epithelium (OSE) cells, and grew them in the laboratory for five days. They took the cells from the ovaries of five women agen *39- 52*, using a laparoscopy techinique.

By growing them in the presence of the female hormone oestrogen, the scientists found that they could persuade the OSE cells to grow into mature eggs cells, capable of being fertilised and developing into an embryo. The team say the technique used to harvest the OSE cells is relatively east, and has serveral potential uses in assisted reproduction. For example, OSE cells could be taken from young women about to undergo cancer treatment athat could leave them infertile, and frozen for later use in IVF procedures. The approach could also help women at rish of premature menopause, and might eventually be used to delay the manopause, and might evenurally be used to delay the menopause by 10 to 12 years in ferile women, the researchers claim.

So there is always hope.

Love, Anne X


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## Rachel (Mar 10, 2004)

This way to a new home Goldies 

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,33974.new.html#new


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