# Things I wish I'd known, asked or thought of.....



## Womb with a View

Hi everyone.  I don’t know if such a thread exists, can’t find one, but thought I’d start one as I believe hindsight is such a wonderful thing and we could all benefit from it!!  My list, which I know you good people can add to, is not exhaustive and I will add to it as I remember stuff I’d wish I’d known!  Also, it is in no-way meant as a guide for anyone but more of a helpful insight into the workings of AJ’s muddle IVF mind!  This is not intended to be a posting of my regrets, although it sounds that way, but more of a guide to what I’d wished I’d done if only I’d known at the time!

In general, I wish I’d gone ahead with sperm donation many years ago whilst waiting to find my lovely husband to be so that I could have had a child of my own, as I know he would have loved that child no matter what and then we could, hopefully, have added to that child by having one of our own.

Before my first IVF, I had detoxed, was super slim, fit and healthy.  I hadn’t drunk for 18 months.  I started to drink caffeine though just before the first IVF.

1st IVF cycle Hammersmith Wolfson Clinic Oct 2004:
Before going down this route, I was optimistic and thought it would work.  I also never did any research at all.  I wish I’d challenged my GP as to why she was sending me to the Wolfson Clinic – I didn’t realize I might have a choice.  Research, research, research (I, for one, should have known this!)
Wish I’d asked why they were putting me on the long protocol instead of the short one, what the difference was, etc.
Wish I’d insisted they’d used ICSI – the doc was against it but never gave me a reason.  We only got 2 eggs, one fertilised.
Lots of time was wasted at this clinic, bearing in mind I was 45 at the time, by waiting for follow-up appointments with consultants to give me the “go-ahead” or results of scans.  Precious, precious time.
Wish I’d cut out caffeine.

2nd IVF cycle
Wish I’d asked why they now switched to the short protocol!
I insisted this time that they use ICSI, much to consultant’s unhappiness, but they conceded.  4 eggs, 2 embies.  Bio-chem pregnancy.
After this I started to drink alcohol again and started putting on weight by comfort eating.  Wish I hadn’t.

Changed to ARGC in hope of success:
Wish I’d taken it as a “sign” of things to come when I had to wait just over 3 months for my initial appointment with the ARGC.  It was with a doctor who was brought into the clinic to deal with the extra workload and I don’t think she was fully “up” on the immune issue stuff there.  

During this wait my FSH levels went up!  The first reading was 10.2……I wish now I had insisted the ARGC let me have an IVF cycle as this was the lowest it was to be over the next 4 months.

Immune testing – I wish I’d asked more questions about what these tests were for EXACTLY.  I also wish I’d asked about how they were followed up should I not be able to have IVF again (which is what happened.)  In effect, I paid the ARGC £800 for immune testing and was not able to have IVF again because my FSH levels went up.  What should have happened was they should have waited for me to test my FSH level, then done the immune testing!

I wish I’d asked about potential “back-up” services from the ARGC beforehand such as who was the person to contact should I have a question, was there a reference point, an email address, ANYTHING to latch on to other than a phone which was never answered or promises to call back which never happened.

Review appointment with Wolfson consultant:
He suggested having the fibroids removed in August 2005.  IM disagreed.  Wish I’d done it now as it would have saved time and then I might have got a BFP.  Jury still out on this one.

First appointment at IM, Barcelona:
Wish I’d insisted on a Doppler scan whilst there.  Would have saved a few £££s and time, etc as I had to have one later.  Not that a Doppler is conclusive.
Wish I’d taken the Refund Programme offer.
Wish I’d been more proactive with the IM and led the proceedings rather than being grateful that they took me on! 
Wish I’d asked for a proven donor and insisted on it.  
Wish I’d asked for the youngest donor they had on their books!

1st fresh donor cycle at IM:
Wish I’d gone for a donor who was the same blood group as me, not because I don’t wish to tell our child they are from donor eggs, as we do, but because it might have made the difference to the BFN I got.
Wish I’d insisted they transfer 3 embies instead of 2 and then freezing 4……this might have meant a greater chance of a BFP but more to the point, it would have saved me 2 lots of travel and costs of 2 frozen cycles, when I might have only had one.
Wish I’d had 3 days bed rest.  
Wish I’d taken 2 weeks off work.

1st FET at IM:
Wish I’d detoxed before.
Wish I’d lost weight.
Wish I’d insisted they defrost the 4 to get the best 3.  They defrosted 2 out of 4.  Good embies but I wish I’d insisted.  Bio chem. Pregnancy.

2nd FET at IM:
Wish I’d detoxed before and lost weight.
I did take 2 weeks off and felt so good after that.  I also bedrested far longer.

I am now losing the weight I put on and stopped drinking alcohol altogether. 

There is obviously more but tired now and will post when I remember!  Look forward to your hindsight thoughts.  Love, AJ xx


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## Clara Rose

Hi AJ 

The one thing I wish I'd known is that single women could get IVF. For years I thought that only couples could get fertility treatment. Then in May last year I was feeling very down about being childless and in desperation I "googled" the phrase "IVF for single women" ... hey presto the FF site came up at a thread entitled "single women". Oh my gosh you wouldn't believe how excited I was. Then, to discover that a clinic in London has been treating single women since 1997...I could have been having treatment then if I'd known, and I was 32 then, not 41, and could have had treatment with my own eggs instead of donor...sigh. But all is not lost, at least I found this place and my wonderful fertility friends.


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## Ali40

Hi AJ

My you have a lot of things you wished you'd done - there are a couple of things that I actually asked at our first IM appointment which may put your mind at rest.

I asked about a young donor to stand more of a chance - it was explained that the eggs of an 18 year old can still be immature and not have as good a fertilisation success as a 30 year old woman who already has two children.

We also asked about blood group and were told that unless you weren't going to tell the child, it actually didn't matter.

We too have asked for proven donors and they said that they prefer to use proven donors for us abroadies because it means that siblings born from that donor are taken abroad and have less chance in life in meeting their half brothers and sisters.  Whether that will happen for us is of course another matter.

As for the refund programme - hindsight is a wonderful thing!!  We haven't gone for it because "statistically" you shouldn't need to, but then figures do do funny things!!

What would a doppler scan have shown you

I know what you mean about trying to lose weight - I am on that course at the moment.  I have pretty much (all bar a few pounds) lost my baby weight, but could do with being a stone lighter ....... am settling for half a stone before I start the treatment.  What I don't know is whether the treatment will make me put on weight?

Anyway - hope this may have eased just a few of your concerns, I can't comment on any of the IVF stuff as with FSH or 20 and then 33 I have been refused any IVF in this country - hence ED at IM.

Take care and best wishes

Alison ....


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## Womb with a View

Hi Ali, thanks for your reply.  Hope all works well for you at the IM.  I don't know which doctor told you they prefer to use proven donors for us abroadies, but we were given an unproven donor aged 28 - and I was 46.  We were told that they have to use them otherwise they'd never get new donors - this was told to us by Dr Walker.  Also, they don't give you any info until the last few minutes before ET.  At this point, though, they don't reveal whether she's proven or not.  We asked this info after our BFN.  I believe they only give info at this point only because we have 2 donors, one back-up, and I don't suppose they know which one they will use, so leave it until the last moment.

A Doppler scan would have saved me doing a dummy cycle (with all the extra drugs involved and time) and paying out £420 after my first FET, not to mention the heartache and worry of whether there was something wrong with my womb blood flow and wondering if I had had 2 BFNs because of it, plus wondering whether the fibroids I have are taking the blood for themselves, which meant I'd have to have them removed, as it shows whether the blood is flowing to the womb or not.  It was but if I'd had this done to begin with it would have saved me all of that, plus, as some ladies have experienced, their blood flow isn't good and meds can be taken to improve it.

Re the Refund Programme....I always wanted to go for it, it was just DP who wouldn't as he believed that, as you, statistically we shouldn't need it.  It has been a bone of contention since.  At my age, I think it's a must and that's what my consultant here said prior to our IM visit too.  For me, it's not about statistics but peace of mind and a kind of certainty that SOMETHING is going to happen and there is a back-up plan, either way.  

Re using matching blood groups.  Yes, we too asked this question and got your answer.  However, having done more research, some doctors in this country prefer to use matching blood groups to rule out any immune conflicts.  Not all but some, as do some of the clinics abroad.  I thought I would just tick that box incase there were some evidence in that.  As I didn't realise how quickly we were to get our donor (one day!) we were given the impression that waiting for matching blood groups would take longer, so opted for the non-matching blood groups.  

None of this is meant as a criticism of the IM.  No way - I think they're great.  My original posting was meant as a possible helpful guide to others who may be starting out on the road of abroadies, or IVF, and, like me, didn't have a clue.  I wish I'd had someone around who could have said to me "this is what I did, and this is what I would like to have done in hindsight..." it wasn't meant as a regrets column or a call for help, sorry if it seemed that way, but thanks for your help anyway!

Love to you all, AJ xx


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## Ali40

Ooo AJ

You got me worried now - we too saw Dr Walker but now Dr Redono as Dr Walker is on maternity leave.  

Wondering if I should request matching blood groups ..... the thing is do they match us girlies??  Just that I am B+ and DH is O+, my son was O+, so I just figured my body was happy to deal with a group that wasn't mine.    Arrrrghhh confusion!!!

As an aside the thing about IM that concerned me (don't know if you were told this) was that if they got a lot of eggs from one donor say 25 then that would be too many to allocate to one receipient and in those cases they would consider sharing these eggs with someone else ..... question is will they tell you this at the time??

Anyway - better dash take care

Alison ....


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## Womb with a View

Hi Ali, please don't be concerned.  When they match blood groups, they match so that the combination of blood is received readily by the recipient's body, if that makes sense?  Many ladies have got pregnant without matching blood groups, but for me, it would be one more box to tick and I wish I'd ticked the lot to begin with!   I am O - and DP is A+.  Our donor was A+.  

I have never heard that if they get 25 eggs from one donor they will split it.  Infact, I've been told by them, they never over stimulate and the most eggs they expect is 10, which is a lot!  My thoughts on this anyway is this - I personally wouldn't want to be the only recipient of 25 eggs if they all fertilised.  Even if half those eggs fertilised that would tie me into a lot of frozen cycles.  I'm not a big fan of frozen cycles, not that they don't work, they often do, but I'd rather go for fresh after, say, one frozen cycle not working.  I personally wouldn't mind 25 eggs being shared, as long as I got, say 4 to 6 good embies.  Where did you get this info? IM say they don't egg share.

Yes, it is confusing and I hope my posting is helpful in guiding people out of that confusion!

Love to all, AJ xx


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## longbaygirl

AJ - just wanted to thank you for your thoughts and to say I think your comments are really useful to those ladies starting out or still on the IVF road. Should be required reading!

Joy


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## Womb with a View

Thanks Joy!  You've been a massive support and fount of knowledge to me when I was starting out, and not so long ago!! xx


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## jewel

The main thing for me is that I wish I had been braver earlier and got started on this route earlier.  I guessed there was a problem but was afraid of docs/tests/ops etc having had nothing ever before.  Really it isn't so bad so I wish my fear hadn't held me back to start with.

I think we all have regrets about descisions we made at the time, but we shouldn't confuse these with what we wished we'd know.  I think thats what you mean AJ.  

The whole process is a time waster in that you always have to wait for the next appointment/test etc etc and there are descisions I made which undoubtadly did waste time.  I agree with the comments about NHS and in fact think tx in this country stinks so wish I had gone abroad earlier.  I never knew that was an option until I fell upon it on this site!

In response to previous comments.  
Dr Redonda is great we met her on friday so don't worry about her taking over from Dr Walker.  
I have never heard of egg share at IM and was also told by IM that they don't over stimulate donors.  
Re blood groups, I am negative and have just used a positive donor being assured it will make no difference - we will see....
Like Alison I was also told that proven donors were used for abroadies for the same reason as she said.  I was also told my donor was proven before we flew out and her blood group too.  I did wonder when we got the last minute call to go whether my donor had changed but apparantly it is the same blood group and proven so assume it is the same donor?!

It did cross my mind what happens to the back up donor - does someone else get her? Is this why we have such short notice to go? Are they juggling donors to match at the last minute? Just curious.

Anyway best go and rest now!
Jewel


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## kone

I wish.........
We hadn't left it so long before we started investigating but we had ds naturally and didn't think there could be a problem.
If only every test and operation didn't take so long on the NHS to come round we would have started I.V.F. earlier.
I wish we could have had I.V.F. ten years ago and my son could have grown up with the sibling he so longed for.
I wish i had known then what i know now and had asked more questions of A.R.G.C..I hadn't a clue about anything
I wish i had known what last saturday,s lotto numbers were and we could all have I.V.F. till we got our babies.
I wished someone at A.R.G.C had told me six years ago that i had a problem with my cervix that could be contributing to me not getting pregnant.
Most of all i wish i could turn back the clock and be twenty three and not fourty three with none of this turmoil and stress and just enjoying what life threw at me.
Thanks AJ for a great idea I look forward to reading more ladies wishes.
Katherine


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## Louise999

Wow, what a great thread!  Well done AJ on starting it.  Although I am on my 2nd cycle at IM I have found it really useful.

Jewel - good luck to you on your 2ww.  To try and answer your question about the possibility of surplus donors, Dr Redondo assured us at our initial appointment that despite having 2 donors lined up per recipient they make use of every egg produced.  She said that most times they are used in the DE programme but, if not, there are plenty of people in Spain waiting to adopt embryos so I guess they mix any spare eggs with donor sperm to create these embies.

Louise


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## larkles

Hi AJ and all

Great thread!

I wish I had known that my egg supply was running out when I was 35 
I wish someone had told me not to wait 2 years before trying again 
I wish I went to Spain for a donor earlier instead of wasting 3 years here
I wish that all of you get BFP's 

Larkles
x


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## casey

i like this thread too ...

i wish at the age of 35, that i hadn't wasted so much time having gynae investigations only to be to be told two years later that my chances of succes with ivf were reduced as im older now

I wish id known what FSH was  and that i had demanded that someone explain what my blood results meant in relation to chances of success

i wish id known about long and short protocols and the effects of d/r for too long on egg quality not learnt this after two BFN's - and i wish i could find info and evidence that the drs would have read and not been so dismissive when i ( tentatively) raised this with them

I wish id known about the emotional impact of starting and going thru tx so that i could have had my support ready instead of feeling let down by those i thought would be good to me when i needed it most

I wish  id known having laser tx on my cervix in my 20's would cause scarring and cause a problem with et's and then i wouldn't have had such a shock

I wish id taken a mega cause in assertiveness training before having tx so i wouldn't feel so stressed and upset when i have to be assertive with clinics etc 

caseyxxxxxxxxxxx


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## safarigirl

AJ - just wanted to say big thank you for starting this thread - i think it will be invaluable to so many starting treatment, and those just starting to explore this option.  i am going to add to it as well when i have some time later ... but its a great idea and well done.  Perhaps we can ask flippy to lock it so that it stays near the top and newcomers can find it easily.  Such great words of advise here and i wish i could have read a thread like this 2 years ago ....


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## cesca

Hi all good thread.. I will put in my regrets which I have a few!! 

Starting out at 28 yrs old going to the GP with difficulties concieving a second child. It took 5 years to get to starting IVF treatment All the preceding procedures took so b....y log and then the 2 year wait for IVF on the NHS. The NHS has a lot to answer for in time wasted. THen after our first IVF I had an ectopic pregnancy and waited a whole year befor deciding to pay for the FEt treatment . Thank god I fell pregnant.
Don't rely on the NHS ... get a loan anything to get things moving faster .

My big  regret now is allowing 5 frozen embryos to be destroyed as the 5 year time limit was up. My darling DH suddenly died a year after our daughter was born and instead of fighting the **** for the maximun time of 10 yrs I let them be destroyed. The pain still sits in my heart.as they were never given the chance.
So read those forms you all sign when your embryos are frozen in the event of the unexpected.

I have now met my wonderful 2nd husband and we are now going down the DE route after 5 years of trying my own eggs. I have been found a donor ... my dilemma is she is unproven and not my rhesus match. Shall I leave a space for my regrets!!! 

I think we go with the advice we are given at the time and then in hindsight have all these regrets. It is such a difficult emotional rollercoaster that I think we just have to go with our gut instinct and if the plan for you seems wrong... stick your neck out. !! Good luck everyone with the choices you take may they all be the right ones !


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## crusoe

Hi Everyone
My greatest regret is wasting time waiting for a donor in the UK. I truly wish I hadn't bothered and had gone straight abroad. I wish I hadn't listened to the UK clinic who said their waiting list was improving and a 6-7 month wait wouldn't be unrealistic. Two years on I am still waiting for donor at this clinic.

I wish I had told the NHS prat of a doctor I saw when I was miscarrying exactly what I thought of him. Being told that the age of my donor was important and that I should take folic acid was not most helpful when I was literally pouring blood all over his floor (sorry TMI) do these people really think you go into egg donation abroad with your eyes tightly shut knowing absolutely nothing?

I regret having to deal with the NHS regarding any aspect of IVF. If the NHS are involved there are sure to be delays, mistakes and incompetance.

I wish I had known I was going to be deserted by virtually all "my friends" who clearly no longer know what to say to me so they say nothing. I wish I had realised how IVF was going to take over my life and how unbearable it was going to be at times.

All that said there are some good things that have come out of all of this and one of them is FF. Without the support and kindness of everyone I think I would have fallen by the wayside along time ago.

Generally I think life is too short for too many regrets. As Cesca says you do your best at the time and you can't punnish yourself about the past. Tomorrow is a whole new day with new choices and opportunities. My advice - try and look forwards......

Love to all 
crusoe
xxx


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## hola69

Hi AJ,

a great thread thanks  

Regrets Ive had a few but then again too 'few' too mention..ha ha ..only jokin girls..Ive got tons..   

PAST-

1) I wish Id started trying for babies sooner
2) I wish that Id been more convinced in my own convictions and persuaded my gp in London to take me seriously when I first guessed something was wrong with my fertility
3) I wish  Id had Mr.Patel at Care all along my 3 cycles..
4) I wish I had been more relaxed and looked after myself in the past and maybe I wouldnt have galactorreah..
5) I wish I hadn't told certain people Im haveing doner eggs..peoples reactions have varied from the ridiculous to the terrible
6) I wish that I could have known my eggs were deserting me



FUTURE - maybe regrets

1) I wsih i had relaxed more 
2) I wish Id stopped worrying 
3) I wish Id made more time for me and less for work (am working on this one)
4) I wish Id made more money to have more treatment.. (and this one)

I agree that the great thing about all this is meeting all you guys and getting so much help from you all..it has also made me realise how much I love my DH and sister who have been such fantastic rocks through all of this and have stood by me..and are always so positive 

Love to you all

Lesley xxx


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## saffire

AJ

you are not alone in REGRETS and all the "I wish had".. hey if its any consolation we all have these thoughts.. But frankly things ahppen for a reasn, we dont always have the time or the quick thinking to do what we should do.. we are only human and can do only what is possible.. amongst all the stress's that we have in daily living.

I often have lists of all the errors and time wasted, and I wonder whether the 3 miscarraiges were self inflicted ( I used to smoke and didnot know that I was pregant in all 3 pg) but again I know people who are 44 - 46 who have fallen pregnt, also who smoked all through thei pregg and had babies, premature..but had them neverthless... so I dont thnk we can be 100% accurate..

and sometimes we just have to go with the flow.. I went to ARGC 6yrs backa nd should have gone with IVF, but like you didnot do the reasrch and  bloody dr's never told me the full picture, its like I had to go to 4 clinics to get the whole picture,e ach one telling me one aspect.. In hindsight I believed cos I could get pregnt but miscarry that there was nothing wrong.. BUT noone told me that my eggs were older than their chronological age so at 33, when I first started they were behaving like 38....

Bloody St Mary's wasted 1 yr on HyperInsulimia rubbish, Mr raj rai... total blollocks... lose weight take metformin etc.. at asame time 6 months wasted doing chinese med and acupucture... not sure..jury out on that... acu def helped..

should ahve stopped smoking eben the 5 a day.. but didnt, work pressures huge at the time.. then tried bride centre...total waste of time, lovely man... but not really up to speed.

The two clinics I wold rate, are Harley Street Fertility MR Goswamy...brillinat man and very cute, and UCL, MR ranaieri who lost me 5 months in waiting but again brilliant man...and very sexy....Mr Serhal really lovely but always stressed..

well thats my story, IVF wont work for me, 6yrs later when I get the courage to go for one attempt before its too late, should have done ths 6yrs back at ARGC with MR T, except I didnot like his wife Ely( salesy women) and felt like i was in cattle market, and why do I need IVF when I can get prgnt  noone explianed abt egg quality

The only thing left now and blow the costs is DE or possible cytoplasmic transfer, straight DE or surrogacy, iam now of the mindset that my body has had enough, take the short cut and let someone who can carry a baby with her own eggs go and do me a big favour.. I cant take the stress or the emotions connected with waiting doing the PG test 2weeks alter etc...

Thnaks for sharing your story prompted me to share mine...doesnot matter what mistakes you make, its the experience and the learnings that you take away, things are meant to happen for a reason, and sometimes destiny take over.. I like to think I gone 360 degress to end up back to sqaure 1.....

love to you all and all those fighter embies waiting to be BFP results in next few days.. and AJ as for you, yur time will come... and it sounds like you need to ditch the past and focus on the present.... it will happen...and you are forarmed this time round.... go into battle and WIN.....xx

saffire


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## Womb with a View

Thanks Saffire and thanks for your contribution to our list.  I like to think that we're never back at square one....or if we are, we're armed with lots of experience and knowledge, which is invaluable.  I hope this thread doesn't sound like a lamenting regrets column from me.....it's intended to help the newbies, that's all.  I don't do dwelling on the past or regrets.  Unhealthy!

Good luck to you Saff.  xx


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## hobiegirl

Your thread is a great idea AJ and will hopefully help those starting out as well as those of us who are battling our way through this IVF maze!
I have had 2 failed cycles and already have lots of regrets about not starting earlier and thinking I didn't need IVF as my periods had always been like clockwork.
It's amazing how much you have to learn along the way and hopefully this thread will be some sort of shortcut.
I am so frustrated at not being a doctor and trying to understand and evaluate cutting edge IVF procedures such as PGD, Immunology etc and trying to evaluate all the different clinics' opinions in a bid to decide what to do and where to go next!!
I know I'm not alone!
I wish all you ladies out there all the luck in the world.This IVF thing is so very hard and you have to dig deep after each disappointment to carry on and learn more.
Don't lose faith in yourself and keep strong. 
Chris x


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## saffire

AJ

the thread is a great idea my dear, its given and giving all new learners first hand experience and coaching of all the do's and dont's. i wish I had this 6yrs back to help and guide me... well done for starting it, sometimes you learn best by those who have led the others and have the first ahdn experience...

gooood  luck to you all. and god Bless !!

By the way I spoke to the channel 4 lady Janebeckwith on the media section, she looking for women over 45 who are interested in spekaing to her, she is very keen to help other women learn from women like you AJ and others on this thread, although she's looking at all women, ideally she 'd like to talk to those over 45... Do email her if youd like to share our experiences....


saff


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## Womb with a View

Thanks Saff, I will give that a whirl perhaps.

One thing I wish I'd known:  to dismiss my first consultant's theory that there was no chance whatsoever that I'd get pregnant without IVF as both my tubes were blocked.  On this advice we stopped timing ourselves, etc.  15 months later it turned out this was untrue, that only one tube was partially blocked and we could and should have been timing our sexual activity!!  Always believe in the possible, even when told it's not!

xx


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## gigi1

I have not gone down the donor egg yet. But if I do I will ask the following questions. What is her FSH? How many times has she donated?. What was the average number of eggs collected on each of these? Especially on her last cycle. % of them mature? % of them fert?. % of cycles producing a PG?. 

We needed donor sperm and we did not ask as you say felt greatful the accepted us (and was lulled as we had done another cycle at a clinic and fert rate was 80%) all our previous one were 80% even with dh's poor sperm!!. Not this time only 50% with ICSI. I have learnt my lesson I will make sure I know all about donors before I fork out heaps of money.

Love
Gigi


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## Womb with a View

Gigi - great questions and I am going to ask them of the IM for my next cycle.  Thank you.  Wish I'd thought of them.  I thought I'd start this thread so I could share my and others experience with newbies but I've got so much back from this thread and stuff I can use myself! So glad I started the thread now! Thanks for sharing. xxx


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## ladyleo

Hi I am a newbie  to this site only joined a few weeks ago and maybe finding this thread today has been good for me , as a I am siiting here with my hankies reading all your regrets I realise that I have a lot to be grateful for , I have a DS and DD from a previous marriage which ende in divorce when I was 31 , and will apoligise for what I am about to babble on about but am feeling really down today and need to babble , here are my regets 
Wish I hadn't wasted the next 13 years of my life with the selfish man I met next , who took himself of for a vasectomy when I mentioned I wanted another baby , he had been married twice before and had 4 kids ,( what a burden ,) his thoughts not mine , and now when I am with my Dp who I met when I was 44 I am too old to conceive naturally , he would love to have a child as much as me , he hasnt any , but somehow I feel  so alone this past week and we havent even started tx yet , dont know what is wrong exactly , maybe its just me but we can feel a bit like strangers sometimes just now , he is tired from working so much to fund the tx , and I feel like hes never around when I need him , I am doing all the reseach etc into clinics etc myself , and has said it is best if I decide that for myself , not a magor problem for me but I have read all your posts and you all seem to so together with your DP's ,maybe its a stage everybody goes through I dont know , and maybe this thread was not the right place to post this either hope nobody minds , but just feel so upset this morning , I regret getting upset last night and having him up till early this morning talking to me , Sorry ladies . but has anyone else felt like this at any point with their Dp
                                                                    Luv Gail


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## Womb with a View

Dear Gail.  So sorry to read you're upset and having a hard time at the moment.  You are not alone, many of us have experienced exactly what you're going through.  First of all, it is wonderful that you've met this lovely man and yes, it is sad that you didn't meet him earlier.  I too didn't meet my DP until I was 44 and he hasn't children either, nor do I.  We want so much to be a family.  One thing I would say is that you must not let any of this IVF stuff come between you and him.  You are a good team, despite his preference that you deal with the plans to have a child.  You two will be the bedrock of your family when you have one, so cherish each other and make time for each other.  One lady on this site put it very well, she said to count all that we have and not what we don't have, which is good advice but I know it's not easy.

I think I might be correct in saying that most of our DPs are very "hands-off" and not hands-on when it comes to the IVF stuff.  My DP, as much as I love him, as lovely as he is, wouldn't have a clue if he suddenly had to pick up the reins and take charge of our IVF journey.  I think I might be right in saying that most of us have also experienced our DPs being less driven to have a family than us, but they are still driven.  They may not display the emotion we are capable of, in general, but they do feel and they do want a family.  Here is an example of my lovely, loving, fantastic DPs emotional state:

DP when happy =  
DP when concerned =  
DP when unhappy =  

You see, it's hard to gage where he is on the emotional level for me.  We do feel alone in this journey even when we obviously aren't, but perhaps it's an emotional loneliness.  We are all here for you.  I hope I'm right in saying you will get great comfort and support from the people on this site, the people who are sharing your journey.

A few nights ago I really wanted to have a conversation with my DP about the refund programme and our plans but it was late at night and he said he wanted to leave it until the next day.  I lay there fuming but decided that he was right, he needed his rest and I mustn't stress him as his   need all the rest they can get.  The feeling passed and we talked the next day.  It's not easy, is it?

I think I've come to the realisation that my DP, as lovely as he is, will never be "me" and care as much as I do, or worry as much as I do, or plan as much as I do, etc.  I think we ladies take on a huge amount of responsibility on this journey.  Having said that, my sister who had many, many IVF attempts (and now 2 children) let her DH take on all the responsibility, he asked all the questions, took all the phonecalls after blood tests, gave her the injections, etc. and she said that her responsibility was to go through the medicaiton, etc.  I think this was an unusual situation and when I asked my DP to do the same, I thought he was going to faint.

I hope this has been of some comfort to you.  You're a team, whether it feels that way right now or not.  Thinking of you.  Love, AJ xxxx


----------



## ladyleo

Thanks for that AJ , its consoling to know that other couples have the same experience , I was starting to feel that maybe he wasn't as committed to this as me , but he says he is , It is very scary to think of all the treatment you go through but the thought of holding that little warm body in your arms eventually , I hope , makes it all worthwhile , as I said I have had kids before so I know what it feels like to experience that , but DP doesn't , maybe that is what makes it easier for me , but your right of course about not being able to tell half the time how DP feels , I dare say they are as stressed and worried as we are , but they dont talk about it , where I need to or I end up crawling the wall half the night , while he is snoring his head of , I need lots of  love and cuddles  when I am worried or stressed where he seems to need his own space which can sometimes translate as unfeeling , I know he isnt like that but when your left to your own thoughts your imagination runs wild ,  but thanks for your advice I really appreciate it , 
                                                Luv      Gail


----------



## Womb with a View

Another thing I've thought of that I'd wish I'd known or asked or thought of......

Baby aspirin!  No-one told me to take it until I'd been ttc for almost 18 months!  It was only through this board that I did start taking it and when I checked with my consultant in London he said "yes, you should have been taking that"!!  Please check with your clinic though before you take any self-medication.  Even vitamins and especially herbs! x


----------



## ladyleo

Hi I didnt know about taking baby aspirin , what is the reason for that , and what do you mean by baby aspirin , excuse my ignorance !
                                                                    Luv Gail


----------



## Womb with a View

You wouldn't be alone Gail!  "Baby" aspirin is for thinning the blood in cases where one needs it to stop the placenta clotting or for older wannabe Mums.  It is called baby aspirin at the Chemist counter but I don't know why....whether it's because women who want babies use it, whether babies can use it or because it's a lower does (75mg).  However, I was told that, although there was no evidence of blood thickening in my case, I should be taking it just incase and that "it wouldn't harm".  But please, please check with your doctor under all circumstances this is correct for you and your treatment.

Hope this helps.  x


----------



## ladyleo

Thanks AJ for your advice , I will ask about it but as I am the same age as you I glad to find out before I start tx better to know now than be told when its too late 
              Luv Gail


----------



## three_stars

Lady Leo
I was told to take aspirin 75 ( baby dosage) in th past but this last tx they said not to and I am over 45.  So I think it just depends on your clinic.  Might help but do not think it would hurt unless you had some special blood problems- check with your doc.
Good luck
b123


----------



## Womb with a View

Hi b123, yes, I think like many things in the world of fertility and IVF, it depends on your clinic and their beliefs!  It's one box that I'm glad I ticked though.  My Mum, 83, has taken if for around 10 years and so has my sister, 63, for her blood pressure and heart condition.  They swear by it.  However, as I said, always check with your doc and clinic.  

Can I say.....I am so glad to find two lovely ladies who are over 45 (one even my age!)  Not that I'd wish my age on anyone   but it's great to know that I'm not exactly alone and we can all help each other.  Here's to us young older wannabe-mummies and hopefully soon-to-be-mummies. xx


----------



## ladyleo

Hi AJ , Yes it is nice to know that your not alone in being over 45 and still trying for a baby , not that any of my friends know but my mum and younger sister who is 37 both know my sister just had her 2nd baby in two  ( am sooooh jealous ) although so pleased for her , and she is very understanding about my desire to have a baby , my mum on the other hand although she supports me , is not so sure I think , just little things she says now and then , its not hard to read between the lines , they think I am nuts !!!!  and I just cant imagine how our two familes and friends will take the news if we are lucky enough to get pregnant , I have two older sisters who are quite happy being Grannies now , and joke about how it is fine to be able to hand them back at the end of the day , I havent told them my plans and wont enlighten them if I do get pregnant that I had ed , but who cares , as long as it makes us feel complete as a family that is all that matters , but for some reason this past year it seems like a day doesnt go by without someone telling you its an age thing !!! if you have forgotten something or happen to say yout tired its an age thing !!!! drives me crazy , but then maybe I am getting a bit touchy about it , does the same thing happen to you ?


----------



## Womb with a View

Hi Ladyleo, the age comments do happen - particularly by a younger woman at work who, quite frankly, has aged very quickly over the past year herself!  She constantly reminds me of my "old age" and I'm not so sure she's joking, albeit the smile on her face, or if it's her own fearful projections or a "weapon" to throw at me (I think I may be a threat to her as I am good at my job so classing me as an employee who is "too old for this job" would increase her chances of promotion I'm sure!)  The way I deal with it is this:  replies like "yes, maturity is certainly an asset one wishes for" or "you're really not THAT old, honestly" (turning it back on her as if, in my "old age", my hearing has gone too!) or I simply just ignore her, to everyone's embarrassment except mine.  Other than that, only one stupid male colleague was stupid enough to say to me, in company of 8, "I hear you want to be a Mother!  What do you want to do that for at your age?" to which I replied "when your IQ matches the number of your age, which I believe is 50, we'll have this conversation then!"  to hoots of laughter and applause!  I don't feel too old, I don't look too old and I certainly don't think too old.  I would say though that the IVF has worn me out emotionally and I feel more "mature" even if I don't look older.  I keep reminding myself that if I can manage 2 jobs, sometimes working 60 hour weeks, manage a home, a garden, pets, a relationship, friends, family, 2 allotments, hobbies, a social life and manage to look after myself, I can manage to find the energy to be an older Mum!  I don't worry about how my friends or family will take the news, I just keep my eye on the ball.  I've never done anything that might be considered "normal" anyway, so why would I be "normal" and have a baby when younger?!!    Actually, I wish I'd had had but that was not to be.....love, AJ xxx


----------



## Joeyad

I wish I hadn't been so bloody "sensible" at 26!  
We'd just bought a flat & were moving in together.  The plan was to wait until we were married & had a house before trying for babies (otherwise known as Catholic Guilt)!!
Fast forward 3 years...........the wedding has been & gone........I've finally stopped being sensible, thrown caution to the wind & stopped taking the pill...........Only to find that my periods are V irregular & continue to be so for the next 8 years........until one day, the NHS doctors decide that I'm menopausal & they can't actually do anything for me!

Like many of you I wish that I hadn't wasted time trying to find the cause of my problem through the NHS.

I've tried every alternative/complimetary therapy going - crystal therapy, sound therapy, hypnotherapy, reflexology, accupuncture......

Despite all of this I am glad that I am now at this stage.  I am glad that I do not have to go through the whole stimulation / egg collection involved with IVF.  I am glad that at least I will not be passing on my "womens problems" to my daughter (should I be so lucky to get a BFP) or my families history of heart disease & rheumatiod artheritis.
I am glad that I have done the huge amounts of research, because I now feel more in control & better prepared as a person to be able to welcome a son or daughter into our lives.

We are led on a journey for a reason.  It is not until you get to the end of the journey that you realise the reason why.


----------



## Grumpygirl

Joeyad,
What a lovely thought- something I believe to. What will be will be and all that.


----------



## Grumpygirl

Oops, posted by accident!
I was trying to say welcome and you'll fit right in round here. May your stay be a short one!
Love
Lisa
xx


----------



## Mindy-US

Joeyad-
Age doesn't always matter, I know it can help. I was married at 22 we started trying at 23 and now turning 26 in October I am doing a donor egg cycle in June. I never had any weird periods after I went off BC. But they say I should be in menopause in 5 yrs. 
What I wish I would of know is that anyone can go through IF even at 23. I wouldn't of waited until 25 to see an RE. But life throws us down paths we sometimes don't know why until later. So I hope my path is to find a perfect donor match for a BFP!!!
Hugs,
Mindy


----------



## ladyleo

Well AJ you have cheered me up tonight after reading your post , I wish I had been a fly on the wall in your office LOL , 
                                                        Luv Gail


----------



## three_stars

AJ  
You are courageous even to have told people at work.  Since I am technically unemployed now, working from computer all day I do not have to face nasty co workers, thankfully.  
Good comeback!  Bravo!

Yes my biggest regret in this journey is BCP when younger and submitting to previous partners' "Catholic Guilt" as well.


----------



## Womb with a View

Hi b123!  No!  I didn't tell people at work......I told my boss so I could have the time off, who told his boss, who told his friend, who told his secretary......etc., etc....you can picture the scene!  Lucky for me I didn't tell them it was donor IVF or that it was abroad!  I told them the bear minimum and don't intend to tell them ever again that I'm having another cycle, if I can help it!  xx


----------



## three_stars

Dear LAdyleo and Aj

I have not really had a chance to read all this thread through properly-  and it has so many good points so I am glad to bump it back up.  Think I will print it out and read it on the metro! 

I saw that you were mentioning feeling alone in regards to DP/DH.  We should form a club!  
Not only are we "older|" but we have to do it all ourselves.  I get very envious when I read about partners that are so helpful- so involved.  My DP has never done one lick of research, pays for next to nothing- the occasional sperm test he has had to do in London on his own, gives no support- I actually think he was smiling inside when I had last BFN.  Maybe if he was footing the bill he would not be smiling.  Not even sure he will pay for his flight to the clinic- well he will have to as I am not about to.  I am draining my life savings for IVF.  He sort of always indicated that as it was my thing ( my fault) then I should pay??  Being English he does not really believe in paying for medical tx of any kind. Then when found it was also MF he no longer wanted another child.  Put me through 5 months of heavy stress before accepting going on to donors.  

For the moment he is ok but I just do not really talk about it all to him.  I wonder how it is going to all be in the future.  If he is going to one day just say it is not my kid so why should I take care of it?  Actually he is basically a really nice guy ( that is why I love him) but there is so much he thinks and does not say and now I am very sensitive to that.

I am kind of venting here ( guess it is the insomnia I suffered for 3 nights.  And this is the "things I wish I had known" thread.
Well I wish I had known how he would have acted through all this in hindsight as I would have never gone down this journey, this long, rocky, horrible journey with him.  Being a GOOD PARTNER  is not enough to survive all this - I guess it takes "super" partner status. 
So I wish I had known that I could have just as easily done all this a a single partner- and less strain from the male side.  
I guess if I had managed to get him to talk years ago and really look at what all this may entail.  But how many people do that?  Like all medical problems don't we take it one day at a time and just try to be optimistic?
Bot sure this helps at all/  I think if we did a poll we would find that a large majority of us women bear the burden for handling tx.
b123


----------



## Griselda

Hi Ladies

Can I join to?  I love this thread.

My regrets are:

I wish I had known in my 20s that the man of my dreams would turn out to be almost completely infertile.  Maybe I would have made very different decisions back then.  Saying no more.

AJ - Yes similar experience with work.  I think less is definitely more there.  The few people I have given a few details too I have since backed right off from and am keeping things really to my chest as much as possible now.  

B123 - I feel a bit the same.  It's not my problem but I'm the one who has to go through it all.  I'm the one who has to take the time of work, have the medical interference and I'm the one paying for it all. 

Other than that though, I must admit, that my DH is as supportive as much as he can be.  Bless him.  But sometimes it does still make me want to rant.


----------



## ladyleo

Hi B123 , jesus you sound like you have a rough time of it and I thought my DP was bad , I know what you mean though about loving them , I love my DP to bits , keep telling him so , and I know he loves me too thats what keeps you going through it all , but mine just doesn't want to know about costs and clinics and so on but he is willing to help fund the tx , the bottom line is this , I dream of the look on his face when I see him holding our baby in his arms he is such a loving partner but just doesn't openly show his feelings too much but I know he cares ,yes I wish he showed more interest in all the research but I just have to accept that its not his thing !! but am starting to realise the more I read that that is more common than I thought , he has had a lot of dissapointments in his past relationships , as have I and I think a lot of the time he supresses how he feels for fear of leaving himself open , I know that he will make a wonderful daddy , he just doesn't know it yet ! I wish you success with your tx you sound like a really strong lady as you are going through all of this on your own , but it will all be worth it in the end , keep  smiling  
                                                        Luv gail


----------



## Womb with a View

Hi b123.  So sorry to read of your struggles.  Can't find another word for it and it does sound like a struggle.  It's bad enough this wanting a baby journey but we all need support.  I really feel for you.  As LadyLeo says, it will all be worth it when you hold your baby in your arms.  Ditto your DH.  I hope you can find some peace and support and I hope your dreams come true very, very soon.  Love and a massive hug.  AJ xxx


----------



## three_stars

Gail and Aj- Thanks a bunch for your support- some days are better then others.  feel pretty good lately as things are happening.  With the stress off me from DP it really all goes along much easier.
Thank goodness for thesse boards- can be addictive but really helps so much.
Thanks to everyone.
bonnie


----------



## ladyleo

Hi b123 , your right I have found this site such a great comfort to me as well , to realise that so many people are there for you and all so understanding because we all have a common bond , I am so glad that our replies have been some comfort to you as , I know how delicate and insecure  I feel some days , you feel like nobody in the world cares what your going through even your DP but deep down we know thats not true , your DP was a bit insensitive to imply that this is your fault ,  I have done all the blame thing to myself , if I had left my other partner years ago when he went and had a vasectomy and told me after the event that he had it done , maybe I would have got together with my now DP sooner , life is full of regrets ,I have cried buckets over regrets but it doesnt change a thing , I am still 47 with high FSH and crap eggs , but men stay fertile forever it seems !! lucky them ,but hopefully if its meant to be we will all get the much desired BFP very soon , and if not we will get over it eventually hard as it will be , I am here for you any time you need a bit of support feel free to unload on me anytime you need , you can do it for me sometime , a problem shared and all that , keep your chin up your a strong lady , with a stunning wee girl you have achieved so much all ready and I am sure your determination will help you achieve your goal , keep smiling  
                                                Luv Gail


----------



## three_stars

Hi Ladies.. actually just received notice this old thread moved so wonder where it moved to?


----------



## sarahz

Thanks AJ for this thread- it's helped prompt a few questions for me as I (at the age of 47, nice to have a buddy similar ancient age!) gear up for another round in the donor-ivf-abroad ring & doctor's appointment this week to discuss the next trip to Isida for DET.  I too wish I'd done it earlier & not waited all these years.  But Im not dwelling on that.  Im having to deal with a very abrupt doc at the Bridge Centre and the reminder about not only iron-emotional constitution but mega assertiveness.  I had a failed pregnancy first time around recently and no-one is there as follow-up support at all. No-one said Im sorry it's happened & Ive just armoured myself up for the next round!  Ghastly isn't it - but a means to an end.
Anyway, onwards and upwards we hope.  Good luck everyone.


----------



## vindo

I wish I'd known aboout FF a long time (years) ago! 

It is such a great source of morale support as well as being an excellent, informative resource. 

Having found it I do not feel so alone .

Am a complete ancient of 48 (how very dare you!) and it has been such an emotional relief   to stumble upon those of similar `wise' years.

Does anyone know if there is a thread for us oldies?

Go well all

V xxx


----------



## ladyleo

Hi Vindo , 
            I havent posted for a long time on here but was interested to see that you are an ancient like me ( I am also 48 but still feel like twenty ) there is  a thread for over forties I believe , when did you join the group ? are you having any TX just now , I am waiting to go to Isida for DE TX but had to do a mock cycle first , and just when I wanted it to appear my AF has disappeared , it has been over 60 days now , so have to take progesterone to bring it on , I wish I had known that was all I had to do, but this is my first attempt and so am not very well informed , 
                                                                Luv Gail


----------



## Fidget

Hi Vindo,

There is indeed a board for the over 40's hun, you can find it here
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=162.0

hugs

Debs
xx


----------



## vindo

Hi Vindo , 
            I havent posted for a long time on here but was interested to see that you are an ancient like me ( I am also 48 but still feel like twenty ) there is  a thread for over forties I believe , when did you join the group ? are you having any TX just now , I am waiting to go to Isida for DE TX but had to do a mock cycle first , and just when I wanted it to appear my AF has disappeared , it has been over 60 days now , so have to take progesterone to bring it on , I wish I had known that was all I had to do, but this is my first attempt and so am not very well informed , 
  
                                                              Luv Gail
Hi gail!

good to hear of another ancient! by the way i don't feel 48 in fact it doen't seem right to put those two numbers in that order!

wondering if your AF has arrived yet - isn't it just the way! 

yes, i'm really new to FF - jst joined at the end of Aug. so not sure about posting, searching etc. 

should this really be in the over 40 thread? if so, don't know how to get it there!

another yes, i am just about to start treatment process at Fertimed, Czech Rep. going for double donor embryos. have never had treatment abroad before - have you? have to go out of uk as age (self imposed by most uk clinics because of donor shortage) rules me out. is it similar for you?

we have one child conceived by frozen embryo donation in the uk. she is 2 and beautiful of course!

sincerely hope all is going well for you gail

speak soon

vi xxx


----------



## jkh

HI all
This thread was very useful to read as new to IVF , DE and all that but about to go for it.
Also made me feel much better about my age ( 45) and how much I beat myself up about past decisions and that feeling of being so alone with all this stuff. I now feel I am not alone and this has helped me to re focus on going forward nit gettin stuck in my regrets.
It has given me something to think about re donors too.
One question for AJ and anyone else using IM in Barcelona..........why do you wish you had gone for the refund package? I am not sure what you meant by the stats suggesting you didn't need to, please explain.
My DP does not want to go for the package as alot of money , maybe also  he thinks this will juts go on and on too. I feel it would give me peace of mind and tkae pressure off if doesn't work first time. But such alot of money, how can I argue this point to him more?
please help
thanks
Jules


----------



## Marina

Hi Jules

We have choosen the refund programme, mainly because we figured we would probably have spent 20k giving it at least 2 goes, but in fact we are now on the second, if the third fails, we get back 21,000 euros instead of losing 21,000, we felt that, if it doesnt work, they would of tried their very best to get us pregnant, if it does well, we got what we set out for, alternatively you are not in such financial loss if all fails and you at least get back 2 goes worth, if that makes sense, BUT, we hope they get to keep our money  and we get our miracle  The stats thingie is, they say approx 60% success rates, so in theory, or hind sight you shouldnt need 3 goes, but none of know, if it will work first time, I guess its a gamble, both ways, for them, and for us. But I feel we made the right choice now.

Good Luck

marina


----------



## Rosalind

I wish that on my first ivf i had known that the Progesterone pesseries give you lots of symptons of being pregnant............... sore boobs, cramps, delayed period etc. I remember being convinced that i was pregnant, but i wasn't. I wish that the fertility nurses and Cons tell you this.
Roz


----------



## cygnus

Dear All.
Great thread! I wish I had not had a chronic illness for twenty years that has needed continuous treatment with chemo drugs, which meant I could not get pregnant. I wish I hadn't listened to the professor who told me to wait till I had been well for two years before trying, when I only had a fourteen month spell of being well in 1993 (the longest in 20 years, until recently). I wish I hadn't had endometriosis, and that my one chance at IVF in February hadn't failed. I wish I hadn't had a major haemorrhage after the egg collection(1 egg) and needed an emergency admission and surgery, and I wish I had not been told that I cannot try again as it is too dangerous.
I am now 46 and trying Clomid, one cycle and no luck so far. Have been told I can have three more tries and that is the end of the road. Now considering ED in Spain or America and I just wish I knew more about how clinics outside the U.K. operate. I am not happy about seeking treatment outside the U.K. but know it is the only realistic option.
I have been visiting this site for about eighteen months, I don't post much but just sit here with the tears pouring out and reading other peoples posts ...when I can see!! The information available here is a fantastic resource and very helpful. 
All the best to everyone.
Claire.


----------



## earthe kitt

Cygnus - I see you're not happy about going abroad - why are you not happy about going somewhere where standards are higher, success rates are better, clinics are cleaner, treatment is more consistent and the overall cost is cheaper?  

I am not happy that we are driven to going abroad because all treatments are not available in the UK, clinics are filthy and overcrowded, service is rubbish and overpriced.
(The man who owns the Care group of fertility clinics is one of the richest people in the UK!)

I wish I had known back in 2003 when I embarked upon this latest stage in my fertility journey that for me it was a waste of time, energy and money using UK clinics and I should have gone abroad - even when having treatment using my own eggs

Jo


----------



## crusoe

Jo - I couldn't have put it better myself!!

Crusoe
xxx


----------



## janeup

Just a thought or two to add to this thread.
I wish I had known four years ago when i started off on this painful journey that my dh and I would face some of the hardest times in our relationship (we are stronger now for it).  I wish I had known that apart from dh and this site I would have no one else to turn to and would have to lie to my friends about how I am feeling a great deal of the time.


----------



## jkh

Thank you Jane for spelling out something I know I have been doing but have been unable to formulate the thought myself...the one about lying to friends about how you are feeling most of the time. Yes, I wish I had known this was part of the process but, now I do, I feel so reassured that it is not just me that does this, thanks so much for this revelation!
Jules


----------



## PurpleChick

I wish

I wish I had started trying sooner
I wish I had seen a dr earlier
I wish he didn't leave me on clomid for nearly a year, wasting precious time
I wish I chose a different Dr when I was pregnant, someone who understood better how long a road we had already travelled
I wish I had videod my belly more when Holly moved inside me
I wish my Dr had induced me on time, not let me go 2 weeks overdue
I wish I had known those strange and slow hiccups were the last movement I was going to feel
I wish my baby was born alive, and I didn't have to arrange her funeral and not a christening
I wish I had some answers...

I wish I didn't take long breaks in between treatments that makes the process even longer
I wish I'd moved to IVF sooner
I wish that my latest pregnancy had not been ectopic
I wish I wasn't wishing my life away waiting for my chance to be pregnant again


----------



## Marina

Purple chick

I guess you summed it up there, I couldnt of put it better myself 

Marina


----------



## roze

My view too.  

Purplechick, you are the bravest.

Janeup, this is a lonely road.  Unlike you however, we have not felt able to tell our friends or family. 
One knew about our general inability to have kids and has since showered me with patronising emails and information to an extent where I have now broken off all contact. '' I feel so sorry for you as it would be unthinkable if I hadn't had mine''.  
Another lifetime friend of 2 years ' dumped' me as she could not handle it, having had two kids of her own she wanted to hang around solely with other parents, so we were cut off.
A third made it clear that it was unnatural for women to consider children after 35.  ''Its not fair on them''.
I confided in someone at work about my first IVF, who then went and told everyone in our team as '' she thought it in my best interests'' so that I could get support.

DH's aunt knew about our IVF attempts when I got PG, but no one outside the clinics knows we are trying for DE. Completely anonymous.  DH has a mother and father alive but I don't - I may have told my parents had they been alive, but DH does not feel able to as they are not that close and live a long way away.  We always wanted the child to be the first person to know, and could not preclude that even DH's closest relatives would judge us or even overload us with sympathy , not always ideal either. 

Other childless but happy friends ask us why we don;t seem to go on expensive holidays anymore; we lie and say we are saving for works on our house. We must come across as deadly boring so maybe we'll lose them too.

This whole process in the last 4 years has become one of ever decreasing circles and I doubt whether I would have persisted for so long without this website.The answer I think is to build up relationships with those with similar experiences, because there is no division so stark in life as between those with children and those without. 

roze


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## Womb with a View

Jules - hi!  Not sure what you mean about the stats, sorry.  However, I didn't take the refund programme with the IM to begin with but am now on it, if that's any help.  DP didn't want it first time around and I had to battle for it after we got a BFN and 2 FET BFNs!  I've now forgiven him, seeing he's going to be the father of my child.  Soon I hope.    (Next tx is in November.)

Roze - with friends like that...... !  I "dumped" a friend who seemed to take the attitude that the words "baby, family, child, pregnancy, breastfeeding, etc." shouldn't be used around me.  When my sisters got pregnant this friend said "oh my God, you must be so jealous".  When her neighbour was having IVF at the same time as me she would ask me lots of advice to give her but when the result came through she told me it was a negative.  I found out it was actually a positive (hey, couldn't miss big fat pregnant stomach) and when I asked this friend she said "I thought you might be upset and jealous".  Never could get the same feelings back for her after that.

Good luck all. xx


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## ladyleo

Hi Aj and everybody , 
                            this thread is sure busy again just now isn't it , Well being the age I am now 48 I have not really told any of my friends about having IVF , have told one of my three sisters ( the only one who is not a snob ) the other two will mortified to hear I am pregnant if I am ever lucky enough , I actually wil quite enjoy seeing the look on all the families faces !! as far as people at work , well I did discuss the fact that I would like to have a child with DP about four years ago , when the secretary was pregnant with her second child , she was 39 nearly forty , and she asked me at that time how old I was , I told her 44 and you should have seen the look on her face !! people just dont know what to say to you , so I shall enjoy that one too , if I get the chance to make a big announcement and I intend to tell nobody anything about my TX , it will be one of lifes little miracles to all !!they can all drive themselves crazy wondering and speculating ,  and to me it will be the biggest miracle of my life , would just like to add a little wish I had know , I wish I had know four years ago that my one FSH test that I had done came back at 25 didnt neccassarily mean that I couldn't get pregnant with my own eggs , and when the doctor told me there was nothing they could do , I didnt have further tests to see , after having read a lot of posts on here about women with high FSH levels still producing eggs and managing to get pregnant I now will always wonder if it was possible for me too , maybe unlikely but now will never know 
                                                                          Luv Gail


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## jkh

Hi AJ and everyone


To AJ-  you had said something about the stats should mean the refund agreements isn't necessary, that's what I was asking about. I am pleased for you you are on it now, must take alot of pressure off. What made your DP change his mind? Mine is saying no to refund programme . Wishing you heaps of luck with it all!


To everyone
I wished I'd known about this website at least 2 years ago! In a short space of time it has given me so much - I feel alot more positive than I did a few months ago, the sharing of practical information is amazing and will save me lots of time and stress, and the support is invaluable, also the sharing of emotions of all sorts is very moving and makes me feel less alone ;  thank you everyone on this thread and others for your replies, it really does mean alot.

Jules


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## Womb with a View

Good to hear from you LadyLeo.  I hate regrets and I have the same ones as yoou unfortunately.  Hang onto that vision of seeing people's faces when you are pregnant!  It's a great motivator I'm sure.  Me too.

Hi Jules, ah, now I understand.  It was my DP who said "....well, if the IM say their stats are that good then we won't need the refund programme!"  He was wrong.  He also said that if they're offering the refund programme they must be confident.  That I agree with.  It was me who made him change his mind after a fresh donor cycle and 2 FETs from that cycle.  I gave him a choice, either live with me telling him "I told you so" for the rest of his life or do the refund programme.  The refund programme is a gamble but, more importantly to me, it gave me some peace of mind and it also confirmed for me the IM would do all they could not to refund me....and get me preggars.  I've had the first fresh cycle with zilch happening.  This time we're in for a double donor.  Good luck to you. xx


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## Tea63

Just found this thread on page 6 - thought I would do my little bit to get it on the front page again  - know that all these regrets don't really help us there have been at it for some years, but they are good for people starting out on IVF 
Wish I known that your own eggs are not that good after 35, wish I met my husband earlier (when he still had lots of hair  - him 41 and me 34 1/2 when we met), but most importantly I wish I found FF before I started out on IVF - It probably wouldn't have got me pregnant, but would have saved a lot of time and heartache. It is a big learning curve and unfortunately we have wasted a lot of time - like the first dr wanted us to do IUI before we started on IVF, so did 4. Even I didn't really knew how much the ivf involved I was ready to do anything to get pregnant, so before we actually got the fully stimulated cycle 5 months was wasted on IUI. At the time  I felt it was a waste of time, but did what the doctor told us - assumed he knew best. I just wanted to do what gave me the best chances to get pregnant. 
Could go on for a couple of hours, but I better stop now  - just thought this thread is good and should be up on the front page 
Good luck to you all - being on FF have helped me a lot the last couple of months 
Tea


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## Gen

Hiya Ladies,

I'm just thinking things through re: DE and using IM and the refund programme, if they would consider this given my history  

In any case I found the info on here so useful I thought I'd bump it up.


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## Marina

Hiya Gen

I guess it up to you, but we chose the refund program, and we got lucky, dont know if it helped or not but I guess it was a kinda cushion if it hadnt, I cant thank IM enough as we were truly blessed and wont ever be-able to thank them enough.

Good Luck

Love

Marina


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## INCONCEIVABLE

With a hindsight I wish I started trying for kids before I was 35 as didn't envisage that I would have a major depression  due to 10 months of bullying.  As soon as I recovered from this I was hit by a positive smear test.  NHS took 4 months to tell me + 2 month wait for my op - in total 6 months.  I was already 37 then.  I wish I had done more research from the very start...

I wish I had gone straight for IVF privately instead of trying clomid for 6 months aged 37.  I wish I had ignored my Dh and the stupid NHS dr who kept telling us that all is normal even though my tests were showing probs with ovulation ie short luteal phase and DH's sperm being 50 % motile.  

I wish I had pressured dh to give up alcohol and ciggies, which he didn't until donor egg speech.  

I wish I had gone for ivf as soon as I turned 35 after 6 months of trying.  

I wish I had never gone to the UCH as they refused to treat me with IVF due to my fsh being 10.9.  (so less than a percentage point from their cut off)
I wish I never listened to my UCH consultant who told me to start off with 3 iuis followed by GIFT at the age of 39.  

I wish I hadn't gone to the ARGC, which wasted another 4 months to get the bloods right as the Lister would have treated me.  I wish I had gone to the LIster straight away i/o UCH.  I wasted a lot of time and money at the ARGC.  

I wish I weren't 40.5 now and undergoing my 7th attempt with so little chance of success when the same money and effort only 3 or 4 yrs ago would have given me a child by now...


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## Tinkelbunny

so many regrets...long NHS waiting list with no warning that the time wated could result in low egg reserve.
ectopic pregnancy followed by a divorce how things have changed.

I have replied to this old topic as a new member I have found the previous posts brilliant. I share the same regrets but not able to express myself the way some of you have.

thank you for sharing your regrets it has helped me.


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## Suzuki

Hi all, 
I know that this is a thread from a long time ago but I just wanted to thank you guys for starting it as we are a couple of years into our fertility journey and I already have things that I wish I'd done differently and so to get some handy hints from you guys has made me get the pen and paper out and write a list of all the things I am going to ask my clinic at my appt on Thursday. So thank you very much. It's lovely to see that since the lows of 2006 that some of you went onto have kids, and definitely gives me hope for the future.
Suzanna


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