# Question about Meiosis



## Jules1550 (Sep 13, 2006)

Dear All,

I have just completed my first ED cycle at IM, which sadly resulted in a negative. 

IM have come back to us and suggested that my DH have a Meiosis test on the basis that there might be some chromosomal issues with his sperm, does anyone have any advice or experience in relation to this? (He's had the usual quantity\quality SAs which have been poor on the whole, but his count improved really significantly at ET).

I understand that the test is fairly common in Spain, but not so common elsewhere? (Ruth, if you're reading this, is that correct?) And what's the difference between a meiosis test and kariotyping, or are they same thing? (I'm more familiar with the latter term).

I have to say, my DH is pretty reluctant on the basis of cost (another 2000 euros or so), and also because it doesn't appear to offer (near) conclusive results. He's also slightly concerned that this test is being offered to us because it's IM's 'thing', and that it's being proposed as a bit of  as a bit of  'catch all' rather than on the basis of anything specific to us\our circumstances.

Thoughts and opinions, advice and suggestions - most welcome.

Cheers

Julia


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## schmoo73 (Aug 18, 2006)

sorry can't be of any help with the meiosis, but wanted to say sorry to hear your news about BFN


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## Womb with a View (Dec 7, 2004)

Hi Jules,

Sorry to hear about your BFN.  It's very upsetting, isn't it.  We too are at the IM and have had 2 donors so far, 2 fresh cycles and 2 frozen.  We are now on our 2nd cycle of the refund programme which happens in November.  

DP had the Meosis test after first being told his sperm looked perfect with normal tests.  It proved a great cost and, although it isn't conclusive, they said it was showing 80% chromosonal abnormalities in our case.  They then suggested we do PGD with our next cycle, at again great cost.  We got one embie and a BFN.  As we were on the refund programme by this time, we were then told the only way forward was donor sperm too, which is what we are doing now.  I do question whether the Meosis was the right avenue and whether DP's sperm is infact ok but with time running out, we aren't prepared to take that chance.  I don't really know what to say other than ask you how many cycles you've had and how long have you been ttc?

I would agree with your DH - I too think Meosis and PGD are IM's "thing".  The ARGC in London have their "thing" of immune testing, so I suppose this is no different other than, if at the end of it you are told to use donor sperm, you may not really know whether the tests were conclusive or not.  I am not being much help other than saying I've been there and done it.  

I think that as I am in my late 40s ditto DP, we don't have much time so went with donor sperm.  If I were a lot younger, perhaps 40, I would probably reconsider but I'd have to take into account how many years we'd ttc, etc.

The Meosis test can come back abnormal, normal or neither!  What happens if it comes back "neither"?  The price of the Meosis test would pay for some IVF cycles in different countries.  If you want to take this further, you could ask them for how many Meosis tests come back normal, abnormal and neither.  What is the percentage?  I did ask but have deleted the email. 

Good luck Jules and sorry if I've confused matters.  It's a difficult one.  x


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## Jules1550 (Sep 13, 2006)

Many thanks to you both for your best wishes and thank you too for your thoughts and advice, AJ. To answer your question: this is our first cycle, (we've not had any treatment before), and we've been trying to conceive for three years or so. I think your point about asking IM for a breakdown of their results is a really good one, thanks, and I'll do that and post their response here in case anyone else is interested. I've already asked them what is indicative in our particular case, (is there something to be read in the fact that only three out of the eleven donor eggs fertilized, for example), but I'm awaiting their reply.

I'm not sure where you both are in your treatment cycles, but hope that everything is proceeding the way you would want it.

Warmest

Jules


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## hola69 (Nov 17, 2005)

Hiya Jules,

have replied to your IM, hope it helps. I have the results of trials if you would like me to send them to you but have to say its very heavy reading and didnt make much sense to me. I took them to my Consul at Care and he looked at them.

I agree with Aj on a lot of points...

Love Lesley xxx


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## Womb with a View (Dec 7, 2004)

Jules, you might like to ask if your first donor was a known donor, in other words, has she been successful before?  Our first one hadn't - I believe it was her first time so that put a question mark over whether it was DP's sperm, me (my womb/body) or the donor who might be the weak link in getting pregnant.  There are so many elements to consider.  It is usually the women who are investigated first, but our donors are not above question and ideally we'd like them to be proven although this is an impossibility.....if they were, we'd have a handful and that's it.

Was ICSI used or was it a partial mix last time?  Sometimes they mix 40% of the eggs with sperm and ICSI the resst (this is what they did with us, twice now).  This might give you a better indication perhaps.  I'm no doctor.  

The IM don't "do" immune or steriod issues but are fully supportive if you consider doing that back in your own country.  Have you had your thyroid looked at?  It might be something simple like having steriods for a short period.  I did this last time and although it was a BFN I felt more on an even keel somehow.  Hope this is not confusing matters, it's just that the Meosis is expensive and not conclusive (but may well give you the right outcome).  My only advice is this really:  think ahead.  If it comes back as abnormal or "neither" the IM will advise donor sperm or using DH's sperm with PGD.  PGD is not conclusive and expensive too.  It also greatly reduces the amount of embies available (it has been indicated that sometimes if an embie has abnormal cells, it can go on to discard those cells or even mend them as they grow).  So, if you and your DH are not anywhere near ready to go down the donor sperm or PGD route, then perhaps reconsider.  If you are not on the Refund Programme the IM I believe will let you go ahead with your DH's sperm no matter what as long as you understand they are advising differently.  If you take the Refund Programme they will insist you follow their advice.  

Good luck Jules. x


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