# Zita West in Daily Mail



## Wraakgodin

This has really made my blood boil today. Not all women try to conceive later in life because they are manic career women who have left it too late to have a baby. I am fed up with this stupid assumption. And now we are stressed over the counter drug addicts with Blackberry's!

Sue 

Why women can be to blame for their own infertility
By Zita West

As she sat in my fertility clinic, the woman, in her late 30s, tearfully explained her confusion to me over why she was struggling to conceive.

All her friends, she said, had fallen pregnant within months of trying.

She ate healthily, she went to the gym and she simply couldn't understand what was wrong with her. Was IVF, she asked me, her only option?

But on digging deeper, it became clear that this woman and her husband were caught in the trap many couples I see are in.

First, she was in a panic about her age. She was on the wrong side of 35, and had left it, she told me with certainty, too late.

Of course, while the older you are, the more your egg quality declines, the harder it is to conceive and the higher the rate of miscarriage, her age was not the most significant of her problems.

Throw into the mix her social life - weekends were fuelled by a hedonistic mix of alcohol and painkillers - and her long, stressful working hours, in which she barely laid eyes on her husband, let alone had time to make love to him, and it was hardly surprising she wasn't conceiving.

Now, like everything else in her have-itallright-now life, she wanted to conceive immediately, even if that meant throwing herself into IVF.

Really, she needed to step back and consider what she could do about her lifestyle.

I see women like this daily. It is not so much that they are suffering from an inability to conceive, but an impatience to do so, set against a bleak backdrop in which almost everything else about their lifestyle has a negative impact.

I do not believe for one moment that women should believe they can 'have it all'. I would like to see them encouraged to have babies earlier and careers later.

This generation has been done a great disservice.They are told to go to school, get qualifications, and then reach a point on the career ladder before they settle down.

But life doesn't always follow such a set pattern, and women often have no fall-back position for when suddenly, in their 30s, they find themselves single.

I always tell my daughter Sophie, who is 23, not to leave children too late.

Yes, it would be ideal if she had a baby once she was married and had reached a certain point career-wise, but really, life is not always such a paradise.

I believe it's more important to say to women that there is never a perfect time in your life when everything is right.

This is the message I give to Sophie. And I believe she will tell her own children the same thing, and so on.

So the next generation of women will be having children first, then worrying about their careers.

But it is also true we are living longer, and looking and feeling younger for longer. We've all heard sayings like 40 is the new 30. But the truth is that even if you still look 21, egg quality declines from your early 30s.

FOR instance, another client of mine is a 42-year-old, high-flying lawyer. She has the face and the body of a 22-year-old, and feels just as she did at 22.

She reasoned she would fall into the small minority of women who still find it easy to conceive at this age.

She came to me because she and her husband were starting to try to conceive, and they wanted to do all they could to boost their chances.

I was honest with her and said not just her age, but her lifestyle, too, were pitted against her.

It made me feel incredibly sad that this seemed to be the first time this lady had considered either of these things.

I felt frustrated on her behalf that she had not been educated to be aware of the fact that, by leaving it so late, spending her life flying around the world and working 16 hours a day, she was jeopardising her chances of having children.

But, that said, it's important to look at the bigger picture when it comes to conception and to consider factors such as lifestyle, stress, medication, drugs and even the state of the relationship. All play their role, and often their effects become intertwined.

Let's take the Pill, for example. Many of the women I see have been on the Pill for 15 or 20 years without a break.

They have spent most of their lives trying not to get pregnant, and though they have monthly bleeds, they have no idea about their fertility, or their natural cycle. So, having read a book about conception, they walk through my door fixated on 28-day cycles, and plan their whole life around when they believe, based on this cycle, they might be ovulating.

Let's get one thing straight: ovulation is different for every individual and is not always easy to pinpoint.

Nonetheless, women become fixated on their fertility. They buy vitamins, books on conception, ovulation kits and take their temperature every day.

They tell their partner every minute detail about their periods, their secretions and their cycles, often texting him at work demanding he return immediately as ovulation has just occurred.

This causes huge performance anxiety in men.

Next thing, the couple are arguing, and bitter feelings and resentment provide another barrier to sex, which in turn affects conception.

And all this may happen in a far shorter time frame than the average seven months it takes to conceive.

Although male infertility is on the increase, and men must consider the role their lifestyle plays, too, many women simply need to relax a bit more.

When I counsel couples, one of the first things I say is throw away the temperature charts, throw away the ovulation sticks and forget the constant baby chat. Just get back to enjoying each other.

Next on the agenda, when it comes to problems conceiving, is the effect of stress on fertility.

Women today work incredibly hard: they get up, they have breakfast on the run, they check their Blackberrys last thing at night and they fall into bed at the end of the day exhausted.

The human body, remarkable as it is, is extremely complex and sensitive to factors such as stress and anxiety, especially when it comes to reproduction.

And that's not to mention the impact of stress on a healthy sex life.

I'm always amazed at how many couples desperately seek help, and even consider IVF, when they are simply not having sex.

If you are having sex just once a week or once a month, conception is not necessarily going to be straightforward.

Then there's the impact of the amount of drugs young couples today take, both legal and illegal.

Many women seem to be on painkillers for period pain, headaches, backaches and migraines. Throw in antihistamines for hayfever, and many other over-the-counter drugs, which may knock the body out of kilter and affect fertility.

Factor in the use of recreational drugs, which is not uncommon - believe me, I see that often enough in the professional women who come to me - and the impact on fertility they have in both men and women.

And, using drugs is also not conducive to a healthy sex life. The same goes for alcohol. A lot of people drink as a way to relax, but studies have shown that alcohol directly impacts fertility.

In men, it decreases sperm quality, libido and can result in impotence.

And in women, it's thought to affect reproductive hormones, leading to abnormalities in the menstrual cycle.

Other effects include increased risk of miscarriage once pregnant.

There is also the problem of under-estimating the power of the subconscious mind over the body.

I have seen cases where the psyche of a woman will stop her from getting pregnant.

Perhaps there is a problem in the relationship, or perhaps, like many women I see, she is carrying huge amounts of guilt over a previous termination.

Some people might say these facts can't prevent conception, but I believe these emotional and psychological issues can certainly reduce the odds of conceiving.

At the other extreme, I see many couples who, in a bid to have a baby, have cut down their existence so much that their whole life has become an obsession.

They've seen nutritionists, and therefore often don't eat wheat, dairy or anything non-organic. So, many women, in an effort to 'do everything right', can be depleting themselves of vital nutrients or be affecting their weight adversely.

The result may not be the baby they desire, but something akin to depression. As they talk to me about their lives, which are almost non-existent, I can't help but think, 'What have you done to yourselves?'

Sometimes, helping a couple to conceive is simply about giving them permission to start living again. That done, they often find a baby just happens for them.

I believe most fertility problems can and should be tackled without making IVF the first line of treatment.

With a sensible, planned and individualised approach, even if IVF proves necessary in the end, couples should be able to at least feel that they have taken a thorough approach to conceiving naturally first.

And the first steps in this involve looking at their lifestyles, and asking themselves, in all seriousness, what in their life is preventing them from conceiving.

With the way so many modern women are now trying to juggle their lives, there should be plenty for them to think about.

• FOR more information about Zita West, see www.zitawest.com or call 020 7224 0017 to make an appointment at her clinic.

• INTERVIEW by Natasha Courtenay-Smith


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## alegria

Totally agree with you Sue. I'm extremely surprised by the generalisation and patronizing tone of this article. This so called fertility guru should know better!!


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## Blu

It must be nice in her smug, financially secure, child-filled ivory tower


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## Juicy

agreed Alegs!  expect better from her.  Not very happy that when I went to her clinic for acu aged 34, having been trying for a year, no one suggested I get checked by a doctor - would have saved me a few months and a few hundred quid, and now it seems i was being judged for caring too much about my career...er actually I would have loved to try for a family earlier but there was something missing - a bloke.

Makes me laugh her theory that our daughters will all have kids young - who with?  How is it that they will find it easier to meet fathers for their children than we did

smug, condescending rubbish


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## Stars*

This artilce really made my blood boil, it was mentioned today on Loose Women, some of them agreed with it.

What makes me mad is alot of people think that ivf is only for women in their late 30's as was said on that programme today, sorry but i am 25 had my irst cycle at 24. So have i left it too late now? 

This article, is patronizing and i think disgusting.

She then goes on about vitamins and books, im sorry is it just me or does she not endorse these by gaining money form it? 

I dont think i lead a stressful life, i work full time albeit, but its not 16hr days as she has said i dont own a blackberry either. 

I think this coming form a fertility expert is very low and as alegria has said, she should know better

Sorry rant over!!

Lisa


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## Wraakgodin

Yes, to think that I have got that patronising woman's book!  I didn't have a baby earlier because I was missing a decent bloke!  Perhaps I should have slept around at 22 and just had a baby with just any old bloke!  She doesn't say  how people can financially support a child at that young age!  Good point Juicy about how easy it would be for the next generation to find a good man!

I don't lead a stressful life (unless you include the 2ww!), I haven't drunk alcohol for 5 years (and before that I only had a handful of drinks a year), I have never smoked, never taken drugs, haven't drunk drinks with caffeine in for over 10 years, and it is very rare that I take any painkillers, even if I do have a headache and even though I have hayfever, I rarely take one of those tablets.  So to include people like me in her stupid generalisation is plain insulting.

"Now, like everything else in her have-itallright-now life, she wanted to conceive immediately, even if that meant throwing herself into IVF."  What a horrible b1tchy patronising comment to make about a client.  Of course the woman wanted to conceive immediately, we all do - because we know that time isn't on our side when we reach our mid 30's.  We are worried about how many eggs we have, when the menopause will hit etc etc.  

I agree Lisa, I have her books and she lists a load of things that we have to do to increase the chance of conceiving - if we follow her advice in this article we have to throw away her book - or perhaps we shouldn't have bought it in the first place!

Sorry - I am going to stop now because I am getting angrier and angrier!

She really should know better.  I am sure people will read this article and think twice before going to her.

Sue


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## alegria

I always wanted to have children and wished I could have had them when I was younger but, like lots of you, it took me a while to find a decent, commited bloke. And we've been trying ttc since  

I also regret now to have spent my hard earned money on her book + supplements to make her even richer! By the tone of this article she doesn't seem to care about the hopeful women that come to her clinic for advice and leave with a much lighter purse


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## Pogo1

What codswollop!   sounds like she is trying to push her own theories as best for having a baby, i.e. you get to pay her hundreds of pounds to tell you what you already know. Hence why I did not go to her. 

Needless to say, i will take her advice and throw her book out -  

Crystal
x


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## Wombly

yes this has annoyed me. I would say I am a career woman but started TTC at aged 28. Our problems are MF related but that doesn't mean I haven't suffered from our 3yrs of TTC & one failed ICSI. I have found if I didn't have a career to concentrate on (esp in the bad times) then this IF lark would have sent me madder than I already am! 
If life was that simple I would just drop my career & concentrate on being a good housewife & waiting for our next cycle of ICSI but god knows how long that could take and I want more for my life & more to enrich my children's lives & does she not know how hard it is for women on the career ladder before they've had children (esp after 30 as everyone thinks you're about to have one anyway) and then to suggest we can just jump on the career ladder after we've had kids instead? What planet is she on as its not mine.


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## Twinkle1975

Totally agree with you all!!!
She, I thought, was a bit of a Guru, with a real undertanding of infertility.  To blame women for this condition is appalling - she should know better.  
I too am still TTC 8 years on - since the age of 25yrs.  Not because I was a hard-headed business woman who just wanted to climb the career ladder, but because I've just not managed to fall PG yet.
Grrrrrrrrrrr  - she should be ashamed!
xxxxxx


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## Juicy

yep, the sheer hypocrisy of slagging us off for becoming 'fixated' with vitamins and books on conception, when that's the very stuff she flogs relentlessly, and makes a huge sum of money off - astonishing !!


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## weeza82

I feel betrayed that one woman who we all thought had an understanding of IF has the hypocrisy to say such things. 

I also started TTC at 25. I was very fortunate to have a lovely husband and a good job with a parent-friendly company and the time was right. However, we find ourselves on this journey, due to MF. 

I object to the notion that all IVFers are career obsessed want-it-all women who have "left it too late". Look around this site! There is a thriving 20-somethings TTC thread, a 10 years+ thread and many many more. How dare she tar everyone with one discriminatory sweep of her brush! 

How very sad for us all that this woman, a known voice in the IF world (I sense she regards it as an industry) can be so dismissive of the pain and heartache that we all endure. 

As for her scathing remarks about the desperation of taking supplements and reading books......... well I for one will be burning her book in the back garden this evening.


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## Greeneyed

UNBELIEVABLE! 

   

This article perpetuates all the old myths that cause us so much pain. 

* Women just need to relax 
* Women trying to concieve in their 30s/40s have put their careers first - they want it all (essentially to me that translates as they are spolied & Selfish) 
* Stress causes infertility. 

The infertile are so misunderstood and marginalised - how will reading this article make anyone respond to us any better - it will just make them feel justified in blaming our choices and lifestyle. 

I am reading Zita's book daily at the moment and it is self professed experts like her that feed our obsessional behavior - um excuse me isn't she the one advocating 10 day detoxes no sugar, alcohol, caffiene etc etc. 

Her attitude towards her clients is absolutely appaling - utterly self righteous and damning of the women she sees. I will no longer be recommending her to anyone - she has done herself no favours here by harshly critising and alienating her target market. I can only hope that in typical daily mail fashion this has been selectively edited to be as controversial as possible I hope many of these comments were taken out of context. There are a million reasons why women end up needing IVF and like we really need the world to see us all as self indulgent spoiled brats jetsetting around snorting coke! 

I am aware of lots of women who have not started trying to conceive until in their thirties however it is nothing to do with choosing their career's first. I think it is a common misconception that women who start in their thirties have proactively chosen to delay having a family because of a career or just wanting to have fun. In my experience this is rarely the case and women would often like to start trying earlier however are prevented from doing so for a number of different reasons, i.e waiting to meet the right partner or for that partner to commit to a family, pressure to be financially secure or own your own home, long enough in a job for maternity benefits etc, etc. 

I feel there is a lack of sympathy for women with fertility issues, who are assumed to have left it too late because of selfish choices, because this idea that we have all put our careers first is perpetuated. 

It feels as if women are being blamed for wanting it all when in fact in my personal experience and that of a number of friends, it is either men delaying commitment or a perceived lack of financial stability which has delayed the process for the couple and all the while the woman is frustrated at not being able to try for a baby then judged by society when things don’t go as planned. 

We are living in a society that puts extreme pressure on people to have it all and even frowns on people who want to have children younger as if they have a lack of ambition. 
Rather than blaming the women who are suffering greatly as a result of their infertility, perhaps we should look at the wider issues and all take some responsibility.  

I expect Zita will see a sharp fall in her profits after this article,if I was purchasing her vitamins right now I would ceratinly be writing to her for an explanation before continuing however - I am sceptical as to how much of this interview has been left out and have no trust in the Daily Mail to deliver the full story (ony one that meets their own agenda ) If she has been done a diservice by this paper then she really needs to come out and say so because I think this is a reputational disaster. 

I also really feel for her clients at the moment - If you were in the middle of a course of treatment would you really want to go back and see her - what would your feelings be I wonder - not what you need in the middle of an IVF cycle. 

Greeneyed xx


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## Blu

Greeneyed said:


> however - I am sceptical as to how much of this interview has been left out and have no trust in the Daily Mail to deliver the full story (ony one that meets their own agenda ) If she has been done a diservice by this paper then she really needs to come out and say so because I think this is a reputational disaster.
> 
> Greeneyed xx



I have emailed her (her website) the link to this thread to give her the oppurtunity to respond in case the paper has taken things out of context.... we will see.


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## Greeneyed

I am sure she has a full mail sack this morning, with a hell of a lot of people to respond to! - She is probably speaking with her PR person as we speak!

This site is probably one of her main sources of referral I know that's where I heard about her and subsequently bought her book - she must be mentioned hundreds if not thousands of times on here, so hopefully she will find time to respond xx

Here is the link if it is not mentioned earlier http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1039972/Why-women-blame-infertility.html#comments
I have added my comment but don't know if it will appear. I tried desperately not to as I know it is the kind of sensationalist article they put out there to create a reaction and thus fill in their pages for them.


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## EllieJ

I just read this thread and OMG! I was ttc since the age of 23... and started tx pretty much 18 months later so have been on the fertility treadmill for a good few years... 

I'll be very interested to see if there is a response... although my initial instinct is to wrap my copy of her book in brown paper and post it back to her.


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## Greeneyed

Been discussing this on another thread and someone posted this to cheer us all up:

http://www.greatwriting.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1183&Itemid=77

It is a superb article and pretty much sums up the situation for me, my sister and several other friends. I would have started ttc at least three years before my husband agreed (so five years ago now) but who is pointing the finger at him - no-one. I am the one with my own business - I am the one people will assume is to blame for our infertility.

Crikey Zita the media is so sexist in this regard, help us out please not them!


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## Lentil

Absolutely gobsmacked at ZW's holier than thou article. I still am reeling and only hope her words have been twisted.

I admit, I have been a career woman, I do lead a stressful working week and I also used to drink heavily at weekends until ttc so she really has made me feel like crap. However I am fuming that someone who is looked up to by us (or used to be until that article) and whose words are trusted has turned round and unceremoniously dumped on us all. Her clients must surely be looking for other clinics. I am boycotting her products from now on.     How DARE she speak in an article the way she has about the people that have made her her living! 

Another thing, I didnt meet the man I wanted babies with until 5 years ago and we started ttc within 6 months - is that also MY fault!

GRRRRRRRRRRRRR

L
x


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## sallywags

This is outrageous - condescending   . i bought her book, then spent the next few weeks stressing that we were doing it all wrong, my diet was hopeless, i wasn't taking nearly enough vitamins (i.e. i wasn't rattling yet), and even bought a bl**dy ovulation kit - even though we have no chance of conceiving naturally because of male factor! i also am another one who has spent several hundreds on acupuncture, in part becuase of her book.

I am livid that she could be so generalistic.  ok there are women who have 'left it too late' just in order to focus on a career, but i have to be honest, i don't see many of them posting on these boards.  grr. 

rant over.

My book will be on ebay by the end of the weekend if anyone wants it.


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## **Tashja**

sallywags said:


> My book will be on ebay by the end of the weekend if anyone wants it.


You might struggle a bit there Hun !!! 

xx


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## weeza82

I have re-read the article and unlike wine, it doesn't get better with age. 

I hold my hands up with everyone else, I recently got her book and have since spent the time devouring and absorbing everything in it, scanning the backs of my vitamin bottles to see should I up the intake to give myself a better chance. Last weekend, I fretted that by drinking water from a plastic bottle rather than the recommended glass bottle, I  had just thrown my chances of a successful ICSI down the toilet!!!  

And for what? For Zita West to shake her head sadly in condescension at my desperation? Desperation that saw me taking every word this woman wrote in her book as gospel! 

Well, what will happen if my husband and I are granted permission by you to live our lives again? I can assure you, nothing will happen due to our Male Factor Infertility. Will that still be my fault? 

Shame on you Zita West for this barefaced attack on those you purport to help.


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## anna the third

i fall into one of her categories and she's right to the extent i am old to be ttc now, but show me the great guy to marry before now you know the intell, good looking one who wld make a great father adn faithful husband. there weren't any. (ok i'm fussy) 

but ...overall...very crass and insensitive article. 

hopefully it was journo's spin?


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## Junnie

WEll what shes saying ladies is we should all have babies at 16 when we are at our PRIME... Live off the council and the state and collect full benefits..

Oh but what im 27.. And ig ot breast cancer at 21.. Should i have tried for a baby whilst going through Chemo 

I would LOVE to go on the BBC and talk about this. im so mad.. Im going to write a letter to the editor of the Daily mail!


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## weeza82

Just added my say to the comments section in the Daily Mail. Please don't judge me, I couldn't resist!


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## Junnie

LOL weeza.. I said something about her head stuck up her rear!! 

A friend of mine works for the daily mail.. He gave me the editors email.. (personal email lol) here is a letter im drafting

I fully believe in freedom of speech and power of the press.. However the article Zita West recently published called “Why women can be to blame for their own infertility” 

Firstly, I would like to say that this article is judgmental and is based on NO medical information other then that of the Oh mighty Zita West. The only medical info is "the older you are your egg quality isnt as good' Well thank you Captain Obvious 

Her article says we should forget our careers and have babies early! I am 27 years old and have just had IVF did I wait too long?? I mean should I have been knocked up by any random man just to have kids? Or better yet get pregnant at 16 with no source of income, live on benefits and off the council/state? This is what Zita is saying “start young” “forget your job” 

I have actually returned my copy of Zitas book and I belong to a website for infertility (online support) and there are MANY of us who are so irate at this article that we are all getting rid and will never buy a Zita west book. I suggest Ms West really think about what she has said and prints an apology. I wont even get STARTED into male infertility.. which is just as common as female.


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## Dahlia

I don"t think I have ever read such a misogynist article (granted it is the Daily Mail we are talking about here). This "fertility guru" who has made oodles of cash perpetrating her advice on how to conceive has hopefully shot herself in the foot with this one...

Words fail me..

Dahlia x


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## Betty M

I would be pretty suspicious of the Daily Mail  - their views on"career women" are well known (they don't like em), their journalistic ethics suspect and I expect they were after a "they all left it too late" story and edited her accordingly. I also went to see Zita West at her clinic and found her to be an extremely sympathetic and sensible woman and no one pulls the wool over my eyes so I am very dubious about whether the article reflects her true position. However I do know a lot of women who are exactly as she described - with the right bloke but put off kids because the career was getting on track and who found things not as easy as they expected. I was one of them and I for one will be telling my children to not assume everything will be easy and not too put things off until they are 35 or over. Obviously there are plenty of reasons why that might not be a choice - no bloke, male factor (although new research has shown age is a factor for men too), illness - but if you have a choice then my experience tells me try as early as possible.  

Betty


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## Hollybags

I'm amazed that she's been able to carve the niche that she has, as fertility guru, given the total lack of scientific evidence for the nonsense she peddles. Even in the most recent audit of acupuncture at her clinic the data was so poorly collated it was impossible to draw any significant conclusions from it. 

Her success rates are reportedly high, and yet one of her main sources for referral is ARGC and the Lister fertility clinics, whose clinical rates are certainly high, and very real and yet she seems to feel able to take some of the credit. 

As a marketeer and PR champion, she's excellent. As a practitioner and fertility expert, I think she's nothing more than a snakeoil-peddling charlatan.


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## Juicy

I couldn't agree more, Hollybags - well put.  I was asked if I would give them my result to use in the audit you mention, I said yes but then no one contacted me for it!

Betty, I'd be more likely to buy the 'misquoted' bit if there weren't other interviews with her out there, one I found today had a direct quote to the effect that infertility problems are caused by leaving it too late to try so this is the same drum she's beating today.


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## Betty M

She may well be peddling snake oil (although you could say that about non double blind placebo controlled proven adds on to IVF protocols).  I thought her vits and things overpriced, ditto her acupuncture (which in my view is pretty good for relaxation but has zero effect on success) - but back in the days I saw her (we are talking 2003) very few people were talking about the stuff she was talking about in relation to preparing for ivf (better diet, no caffeine, no alcohol, lots of protein etc) so this article not withstanding (and it was on the whole cr*p in traditional Daily Mail style) I still think she has been influential for good reasons as well as bad. There is also a lot of basic ignorance about biology out there and for that her books are pretty helpful for new starters on fertility and conception. The trouble is there is nothing we can do to make ourselves younger and however much I dislike it a decline in fertility for both sexes is a product of ageing whatever other factors you might have in play.


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## iccle one

This is probably goingto cause a lot ofconsternation on here but I think she talks some sense.

I think that what is being missed is that she is talking about a narrow portion of 'infertile' people for a start.
The people who through wanting to build a life stable enough for children before actually having them and therefore aren't even trying til their 30's and then think that they aren't conceiving within the expected time limits.

With us all being so up to speed on fertility issues now I think that it can be easy to forget what it's like right at the start when you know nothing about why you may not be getting pregnant.

After questioning their lifestyles (as happens with us all at the start of fertilty treatment) she finds that some of the people she see's have a very erratic life. Working all the hours god sends, living on redbull and painkillers, barely seeing their partner let alone having sex with them - surely as a concientious practitioner these issues should be resolved before you try the next step??

Yes, for us here these are not the problems, I myself waited until I found 'the right man' before I started trying for a family (I was 31) and down to sods law I had only been off the pill for a month (which I had only been taking for 6 months out of the last 12 years as I relied on barrier method) when I was rushed into hospital with sepsis following severe hydro to which I subsequently lost both tubes.
I was also in a job that stressed me out, and after two failed treatments I decided (without reading a single Zita West book and only barely knowing her name) that I needed a less stressful life and got a job in a completely different sector - the very next treatment resulted in implantation (I unfortunately lost the pregnancy due to blood factors)
It is well known throughout all medical fields that stress has a big impact on your health - after a period of intense stress (an exam, driving test, argument etc) your immune system's effectivity drops to something like 20% normal levels, animals with high levels of stress have been proven to heal less quickly, stressed animals will 'throw' their unborn babies - of course stress and the lack of it will also play a part in getting pregnant.

Don't let this article make you feel guilty for your infertility, yes alot of the people reading this article who had no problems getting pregnant will think 'oh well they have just waited too long' or 'they aren't having enough sex' and use that to excuse to all infertility - but unfortunately the vast majority of the nation never puts its brain in gear when they get out of bed in the morning.

We are not the same as the small portion of the nation that she is talking about, we know why we are infertile and they are real reasons.


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## Guest

Hi,
I read this yesterday and my first reaction was that of the Gerald Ratner escapade in the 80s - anyone else remember that?  I'm sure she's made more than enough money to give her daughter everything she needs financially so she'll never struggle like the rest of us with mortagages, bills etc and so be able to have children young (if able to, oh the irony if she wasn't).

Some of her article is common sense but just relaxing is not enough on its own though!  Smoking and alcohol are also detrimental to health as a whole, not just IF.  As for drug taking well, sorry if I upset anyone here but if you are taking coke/speed and out clubbing all the time, are your organs going to be affected by recreational drugs?  Has there been much research in this area?

But that said, there are many reasons why people don't TTC until later.  For example, we believed we were being responsible in waiting to get stable careers sorted out and a house for us all to live in.  Children are expensive and we wanted to ensure that we could give them the best start in life that we could and do for them what our parents did for us.  I also checked out how much full time child care was as well.  Okay, I wasn't banking on having twins.... 

I never dreamt we would have problems with ttc either and fortunately we did start whilst we are relatively young, fit and healthy.  Sadly, there are many people who would love to have children and want to give them their best and don't realise until it may be a little late and harder naturally.  I'm sure none of us would go through the whole TX process if we didn't have to, I certainly wouldn't have.

I didn't actually use any of her methods, vits or anything, I used my mum who worked in male IF research and at one of the clinics many people use on here.


----------



## Caz

> Sometimes, helping a couple to conceive is simply about giving them permission to start living again. That done, they often find a baby just happens for them.


I'd really like to see the clinical evidence that supports that statement.



> This artilce really made my blood boil, it was mentioned today on Loose Women, some of them agreed with it.


Not at all surprised by that. Loose Women is not exactly famed for its sympathy with infertilty.



> yep, the sheer hypocrisy of slagging us off for becoming 'fixated' with vitamins and books on conception, when that's the very stuff she flogs relentlessly, and makes a huge sum of money off - astonishing !!


  I agree. Gerald Ranter - right on!



> I expect Zita will see a sharp fall in her profits after this article,if I was purchasing her vitamins right now I would ceratinly be writing to her for an explanation before continuing however - I am sceptical as to how much of this interview has been left out and have no trust in the Daily Mail to deliver the full story (ony one that meets their own agenda ) If she has been done a diservice by this paper then she really needs to come out and say so because I think this is a reputational disaster.





> I would be pretty suspicious of the Daily Mail - their views on"career women" are well known (they don't like em), their journalistic ethics suspect and I expect they were after a "they all left it too late" story and edited her accordingly. I also went to see Zita West at her clinic and found her to be an extremely sympathetic and sensible woman and no one pulls the wool over my eyes so I am very dubious about whether the article reflects her true position.


The first thing I thought when I saw the title of this thread was "hmm, Daily Mail? This isn't going to be pretty."



> we believed we were being responsible in waiting to get stable careers sorted out and a house for us all to live in. Children are expensive and we wanted to ensure that we could give them the best start in life that we could and do for them what our parents did for us.


You were being responsible! The point is, I think is that we're pressured (whether we know it or not) to be responsible and to have children when we can afford to give them everything we've been conditioned to believe they deserve. And that's not going to change for the next generation nor the next becuase, these days, people can't afford do it any other way. So it's useless to fixate on it, other than to educate people at a much earlier age that it's a consequence of living in a modern world.



> This is what Zita is saying "start young" "forget your job"


Actually, yes, that's exactly what she's saying and, fertility wise she has a very good point. If I was ever lucky enough to have a daughter I would certainly tell her not to hang about too long to start a family. Having said that, I'm one of the ladies here who did start ttc fairly young at 25 and whose IF issues are most certainly not to do with a high flying career or a lifestyle I chose to lead so, yes, it's a bit galling to see someone who I would have thought would be sympathetic to infertility showcasing such a narrow minority of IF patients.
C~x


----------



## anna the third

Actually having thought about this, it's another example of control of women - ie we aren't to be allowed to "have it all" like men. 

there are many guises for this C.O.W.phemonomen (ha!  just realised the acronym!)  ranging from IN MY VIEW 

1. antipathy to automatic provision of anaesthetic in childbirth which I see as nonsensical frankly given the size of babies nowadays;

2. non deductibility of childcare expenses enabling women to work;

3. illegality of advertising formula (did you know that that's illegal?! how illiberal for a perfectly healthy and legal product!); 

4. office comments on successful womne;

5. lack of support for the elderly leading MOSt of the burden to fall on women; AND

6. ZW or maybe the Dmail - let's be fair to her- apparently not wanting women to have the choices in life that men have.her "career women" have by the way paid an awful lot in tax over the years. 

I could go on and on but it's off topic. 

back to ttc! good luck everyone. xxx


----------



## Greeneyed

ATT - completely agree - that's why this article is so astounding, it is so sexist I am sure even women for whom infertility is not an issue would find it insulting....


----------



## foxylady73

Just found this thread, can't believe the audacity of the woman.  I have one of her books and it's just gone straight in the bin.


----------



## Jane D

I agree.  I think we should stop buying her products and visiting her clinic.  Also the Daily Mail is notorious for offensive articles too.

Zita - don't bite the hand that feeds.


----------



## Greeneyed

Have written a letter to Zita West today - thanking her for her helpful comments....   

I am definately boycotting all things Zita from now on! 

Iccle one  "I think that what is being missed is that she is talking about a narrow portion of 'infertile' people for a start." 

If we are missing that point then so will the rest of the readership and thus we will all be tarred with the same brush. Isn't it easy just to blame us girls rather than looking at the wider issues (house prices, men delaying commitment etc) and for everyone collectively to take some responsibility. This lets everyone else off the hook. 

Not bad enough that we all have to suffer infertily and all the heartache and idignities that entails we must also be percieved as selfish spoiled madams that are now getting their comeuppance. 

If this article qualified that this relates to a small proportion of infertile individuals and talked about many of the other various reasons we found ourselves in this position then  fair enough, but it just allows the reader to walk away with a stereotype which many will attach to all of us. 


Love Greeneyed xx


----------



## Lentil

Greeneyed,

I would love to see your letter if you dont mind. You are much better than expressing yourself in depth than I am. I would probably get angry and then write "v annoyed at your heartless comments and shortsighted attitude towards the many thousands of women that have made you who you are today. The girls and I from FF are boycotting your products and spending the money on painkillers/drugs. alcohol, coffee and generally being selfish with it" The latter of course would be in a sarcastic tone!    

L
xx


----------



## weeza82

Greeneyed, you do expres yourself so eloquently, I would love to see your letter too. I will be posting on her website comments section when I get a chance to express my disappointment.

I agree, if the article had clarified that this is only a small portion of IF sufferers, I would not be as enraged. I strongly object to the constant media portrayal that anyone undergoing fertility Tx has thus bought it on themselves with their selfish attitudes.



Greeneyed said:


> Not bad enough that we all have to suffer infertily and all the heartache and idignities that entails we must also be percieved as selfish spoiled madams that are now getting their comeuppance.
> 
> If this article qualified that this relates to a small proportion of infertile individuals and talked about many of the other various reasons we found ourselves in this position then fair enough, but it just allows the reader to walk away with a stereotype which many will attach to all of us.


You have summed it up perfectly Greeneyed.

Additionally and possibly somewhat off-topic, I have huge issues with the portrayal of celebrities who have undergone fertility Tx in the media also. I refer specifically to an interview with Jools Oliver in the Daily Mail (again) this weekend. The headline read "Jools is prepared to undergo IVF just to have a boy" how sensationalist is that? The reality is Jools suffers from PCOS and concieved her daughters with assistance (possibly Clomid, I can't remember) and now they are thinking about child number 3 and musing that a boy would be nice. What a desperate twist on words  Apparently she has documented it well in her book "minus 9 months" (or something like that) which may prove to be quite a good read.


----------



## EllieJ

Weeza I completely agree - it would be lovely if those celebs who are brave enough to share their infertility with the world were congratulated for their openness, rather than pilloried... And whilst I fully accept (as a 10 year+ member of the IF club) that IF is not considered by the world at large to be life-threatening, just imagine what a positive message it would send to the countless women in our position if the media response to Jools Oliver, Louise Redknapp and co. was supportive rather than critical...


----------



## Greeneyed

LOL  - Lentil that sounds like a really good letter!!!! 

I'll PM it to you later, I have basically based it around quite a few of the posts on here! x


----------



## alegria

Greeneyed - I completely agree that unfortunately the media always portrays IVF/ICSI as a frivolous lifestyle choice and people like Mrs ZW should be out there helping us to desmistify it and show to the general public that there are many other reasons why couples have to turn to fertility treatment. And instead Mrs ZW has chosen to bite the (thousands of) hands that feed her...  
As you said, not everyone deserves to be tarred with the same brush; one of the most annoying things is that this article only helps to make the general public even more hostile and unsympathetic towards IVF treatment and the couples that genuinely have no choice but to resort to that.  

Alegria x


----------



## Guest

Greeneyed said:


> Have written a letter to Zita West today - thanking her for her helpful comments....
> 
> I am definately boycotting all things Zita from now on!
> 
> Glitter "I think that what is being missed is that she is talking about a narrow portion of 'infertile' people for a start."
> 
> If we are missing that point then so will the rest of the readership and thus we will all be tarred with the same brush. Isn't it easy just to blame us girls rather than looking at the wider issues (house prices, men delaying commitment etc) and for everyone collectively to take some responsibility. This lets everyone else off the hook.
> 
> Not bad enough that we all have to suffer infertily and all the heartache and idignities that entails we must also be percieved as selfish spoiled madams that are now getting their comeuppance.
> 
> If this article qualified that this relates to a small proportion of infertile individuals and talked about many of the other various reasons we found ourselves in this position then fair enough, but it just allows the reader to walk away with a stereotype which many will attach to all of us.
> 
> Love Greeneyed xx


Greeneyed - the quote that you attributed to me is incorrect, it was iccle one in the post above mine. Thanks.



iccle one said:


> This is probably goingto cause a lot ofconsternation on here but I think she talks some sense.
> 
> I think that what is being missed is that she is talking about a narrow portion of 'infertile' people for a start.


----------



## Greeneyed

Completely agree Alegria and hadn't even thought about it like that. 

When the news reports about the funding of IVF come out and the subsequent "have your say" sections are littered with lots of people demanding that IVF not be available on the NHS as it is a lifestyle choice and basically the old lines are always trotted out about about it being for spoiled career girls who have left it to late - well why do these people formulate opinions like that? Because they read articles like this one!!!  

Oops sorry glitter! - I'll try to go back and amend that post x


----------



## Guest

Unfortunately its the 'spoiled career girls' who are the most likely to have the children that will pay for these moaners' pensions some day since we're more likely to get ourselves off our backsides and raise children who will have a good education and career in turn and not sit about on benefits.  Bet the moaners never thought of that before they climbed on their hobby horses


----------



## weeza82

Word on the street is that ZW is doing an on-line chat on INUK soon........ When I hear more, I'll let you know!

Edit: It's 22nd September at 7pm on the INUK site.


----------



## Lentil

Thanks Greeneyed - feel free to add that bit in!!    Made me smile when I saw your comment  and felt a lot better but you can see why I am happy for you to send your letter! 

Weeza - OMG that site is soooooo going to crash if all the FF'ers get going!  

Gliiter - Couldnt agree more.

Alegria - again - I agree wholeheartedly.

Elliej - sorry to be a bore - agree with you totally too!


----------



## weeza82

One of the NI girls left a comment on her clinic website and received a reply which basically said the journalist had not compiled a balanced view of the interview and it was never her intention to offend and she recognises that many, many people have been very upset. 

I think a statement on her website would go a long way.....


----------



## Wraakgodin

weeza82 said:


> Word on the street is that ZW is doing an on-line chat on INUK soon........ When I hear more, I'll let you know!
> 
> Edit: It's 22nd September at 7pm on the INUK site.


Blimey - how are we going to remember something that far in the future!

Greeneyed - would you mind PMing me the letter as well, I would be really interested to read it. As the other ladies have said, you do have a marvelous way with words.

Hugs to all

Sue


----------



## Lentil

Just on ZW website now and notice THAT Newspaper cutting isnt on her 'What the papers say' page humph


----------



## weeza82

I noticed that TOO!!!!


----------



## Wraakgodin

Hmmmm.... wonder why......  

But seriously, I would have thought that she would have referred to it in some way, pointing out misunderstanding/falsehoods that have been written in the article - if there are any!

Sue


----------



## Lentil

They are obviously from the 'If we ignore it, it will go away' school of thought...


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## weeza82

A statement on the website about the reaction to the article is surely needed for damage limitation and reputation salvaging!


----------



## Greeneyed

ooh ladies you are embarrassing me now


----------



## Miranda7

If I read it right, Zits has written this article herself - so unless a sub editor has been particularly creative we can rest assured she said all this.

Hmmn. Not very impressive, is it?

Had I ever bought one of her books it would be on the fire right now.

I watched Loose Women the other day and wondered why Carol McGiffin was spouting guff about 'all these women' who rush into IVF because they can't wait. I hate Loose Women anyway, but I was feeding and couldn't reach the remote!  
Learning that it's an article by the lofty Zits herself that sparked that rubbish...well - the Gerald Ratner comparison is right! Imagine shooting yourself in both feet while you have them rammed simultaneously in your mouth, eh?  

I think it's time we realised that actually, it's the women on this site who have the real expertise - we are the ones doing the constant research and have a true overview of tx - not just a one-eyed look at a particular area, which seems to be the case with these highly-paid experts.

I hate the Daily Mail too! Anyone else who similarly detests it but can't stay away should go to www.dailyhatemyself.blogspot.com
The commentators are pure nutcases, and will reassure anyone who suffers faint feelings of guilt and doom reading its bias-sodden pages.


/links


----------



## Betty M

I doubt she wrote it herself. Many of these articles said to be "by" well known people usually aren't written by them at all and are just a journo writing up an interview with whoever it is. As long as they use the words spoken they can get away with saying its by the person. That way they can leave stuff out that doesn't fit with the pre-ordained message of the rag.


----------



## Wraakgodin

But that still doesn't explain why she doesn't have anything on her website in reaction, saying it was taken out of context etc.  Daily Mail could be in major legal trouble if they are misrepresenting what she said.

Sometimes silence speeks louder than words.

Sue


----------



## Greeneyed

If I was her I wouldn't make any reference to it at all - why draw peoples attention to it? I think she is being sensible. Hopefully this will be a harsh lesson learned and she won't do interviews for the daily mail anymore and will be more careful in how she represents her clients.


----------



## Catb33

Just found this thread and think my copy of her book will be winging it's way to her clinic sometime soon with an explanation of why I don't want it any more. 

The bottom of the article does say that it's an interview by someone so it has probably been edited (DM is the worst for putting a bias on stories) but I think she should have the guts to stand up and apologise for it going out. She made the remarks, however they have been edited so it's not complely down to the journalist. 

Yet another media story putting a negative image of infertility out there for the ignorant (on this topic) to use when on their soap boxes.


----------



## Miranda7

I must admit that if I was the journo interviewing and she said all that pish, then I would have put it out unedited just to show people what she was really like... 

It's quite hard to make educated people say what you want them to.

Worst story I heard was a mate of mine, who went to cover the Queen's visit to some backwater once, and asked a little girl: "So, you met the Queen? Was she very nice?" At which the little girl nodded her head.
He quoted her as saying: "I met the Queen and she was very nice."

You'd think no harm done, wouldn't you?

Except he then got a letter from the outraged mum, saying how dare you, she's mute and you just made it look like I was making it up!

You can see how these things happen. 

I think Zits has made a major boo-boo, personally - there's no way she didn't say this stuff. Context schmontext.


----------



## buster31

Greeneyed said:


> Been discussing this on another thread and someone posted this to cheer us all up:
> 
> http://www.greatwriting.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1183&Itemid=77
> 
> It is a superb article and pretty much sums up the situation for me, my sister and several other friends. I would have started ttc at least three years before my husband agreed (so five years ago now) but who is pointing the finger at him - no-one. I am the one with my own business - I am the one people will assume is to blame for our infertility.
> 
> Crikey Zita the media is so sexist in this regard, help us out please not them!


Greeneyed really good article ,really enjoyed it.
Just to add fuel to the fire of attitudes a male consultant said to me..I take it your partner isn't too concerned about your fertility problems..when I, completely shocked ,asked why he thought that he said...becos he would have had to have been an idiot to get involved with a woman over 35 if he really wanted children!!!!!!!! I swear I sh1t you not.


----------



## Wraakgodin

I would have complained about him Buster!  That is unforgivable and totally insensitive.

Sue


----------



## Miranda7

Unbelievable! You MUST complain Buster - even if it was ages ago.


----------



## Lentil

I personally think back in with public thrashings   - That is outrageous!


----------



## Greeneyed

Buster WTF!


----------



## sallywags

OMG Buster - what did you say?!?! that is appalling - he should be struck off for that!!!


----------



## Lentil

Hey Sallywags,
How are you hun?
xx


----------



## weeza82

OMG Buster! That is astonishing! I think I may know who you mean if it's the RFC you're talking about


----------



## Lentil

Most peeps in the medical profession are great but some of them have absolutely no thoughts about how what they say can be so inconsiderate and upsetting. 

This could be interesting if you both know (weeza and buster) the same one and feel the same about them!

L
xx


----------



## weeza82

If it's who I think it is, I have only met him once and he can be quite abrupt, although he was perfectly decent to me. But his reputation does precede him......


----------



## Lentil

Dont know that clinic or this individual - My mental picture of him is short, greying, bit of a bald patch on top and longer of the sides, glasses, late 50's or early 60's...possibly a tweed jacket.......and a bit jaded and ready to retire!??  

Dont know why I have to picture some people when A there is no point and B Its daft.   
Anyway, if I am no where near hope it brings you a chuckle and if I am close how spooky would that be!
L
xx


----------



## Catb33

Buster - that's an outrageous thing to say to anyone - but being a fertility specialist is even worse.


----------



## emak

Hi Buster ,me thinks i know who the Dr is.Think Wezza and me have seen him ,its true girls he has a reputation of straight talking, calls a spade a spade,no pussy footing around with him.A wee bit of senisitivity wouldnt go a miss though.That was a bloody awful thing for him to say to you mrs


----------



## cherriepie

OMG Buster - I would have slapped the guy right there and then!  How dare he!!!!!  With that attitude he really should consider whether he is following the right career path and what hs motivations are for doing so.  That is an utterly dispicable thing to say to anyone and I hope he is dressed down by those in charge if you have complained.  If not then just sit back and watch karma work - he will get his!!

xxxxxx


----------



## buster31

Hi Weeza and Emak 
funny to see names you know on different boards, a bit like running into someone u know on hols...or maybe thats just me  
Everyone else I'm surprised by the strength of reaction, between my diagnosis Nov 07 and start of first tx I felt like I'd entered a twilight zone were everyone had just turned into complete   the no. of insensitive and downright ignorant comments I came across, some of the worst offenders were actually close family  . My mum became the total harbinger of doom constantly being negative.. I think she didn't want me to get my hopes up and then come crashing down but after  a bit of   she's changed her attitude completely ok thats an exagerration but she's less ' oh my God we're all going to die ' than she was. 
My DP's Dad was and continues to be a complete F***wit about it ,just keeps worrying about all the money when DP asked if he cd borrow some money that he has been keeping in one of his ISSA accounts for his Dad for years, until we sold house, his Dad said surely it should be her family who should pay. We have a double-barrelled prob my tubes and DP's    swimming in circles, falling asleep,ballet dancing ...everything but what they should. Nice
A neighbour who has known me my whole life had a few drinks and told me I should wise up and realize I was too old  and the consultant from our Nhs appt, on the news that we had failed to stimm ,advise dthat we were too old for list, I'm big 40 in Nov, no I'm not, yes you are   can't believe it still, anyway his advice was that we could continue to waste our money at Origins but should expect it to fail! 

So it came as one of many. From posts I've caused confusion, it was a counsultant but not fertility a neuro-psychiatrist in fact. Beggars belief really heres thinking psychiatry is meant to be caring. I suffer from a sleep disorder, narcolepsy, it was diagnosed about 4 yrs ago at the city, but as I don't respond to the meds as I should, they're in the process of further investigation re treatment. So the comment was made by the neuro during a general discussion of stress in my life at the mo. it really was a doozie of a comment  won my award for best to date .
Hey maybe we should all start a new thread on most ignorant comment received by those with fertilty probs have it published and sent to consultants, family, work colleagues etc etc , on wot not to say maybe shame some of them into realisation. could send the winner a version of the Oscar!!!!!!!!!  

Anyway maybe one day when this is all over I'll do something more official about it, did say to GP at time lovely woman who was horrified and apologised on behalf of Nhs God love her nothing for her to feel bad about. But right now saving energy for our little trooper ! Just good to rant every now and again.
V x


----------



## Miranda7

We could call the awards the Foxtrot Oscars?  

There are several threads on insensitive comments - you just can't believe people would say these things. But for that to come from a psychiatrist, well...


----------



## talie

hiya girls,
omg buster31, what a fab message, one of the best messages i have seen on this fab little website, and so true for so many of us, why is that, everybody around us goes   when we have treatment hee hee.  
gave me a good giggle      thanks for that honey.
hope your dreams come true babes   
love talie xx   xx


----------



## Caz

Miranda7 said:


> We could call the awards the Foxtrot Oscars?
> 
> There are several threads on insensitive comments - you just can't believe people would say these things. But for that to come from a psychiatrist, well...




Love it. There was one very good thread called "Mother In Law's Tongue" that listed all the rude and insensitive things people had been told. Sadly, we had a site crash a while back and the thread was lost, which is a shame becuas eit was both side splittingly funny and terribly tragic. 
My own contributions came from the gynae who, when trying to diagnose the cause of my really bad (as it turned out endo) pain said "Mrs S, if you had a baby that would solve all your problems". Oh and my GP who, when signing me off sick as I sat sobbing my heart out in front of him after miscarrying. said "Have you thought about adoption." 

Buster  You go get that BFP and prove the lot of them wrong wrong and wrong again! 

C~x


----------



## roze

Hope this doesn't sound patronising, but this sort of journalism is typical of the paper in question- they seem to go on an IVF crusade on a regular basis.  Read the more informed press instead and forget about the rest- it will be filling tomorrows litter tray...

Don't upset yourselves over lazy journalism.  Like the Foxtrot Oscar award thing, think I'll draw up my own shortlist..

roze


----------



## beegey

Obviously outraged by ZW's comments, but love to Foxtrot Oscar idea. Have my own nomination - someone asked me recently if we 'were sure you are doing it right'   Didnt quite know how to answer.. 

Gotta laugh   !

Begey x


----------



## Ceri.

Not gonna say too much, or i'll keep on my soap box, but this woman is totally and utterly over-rated, cant stick the stupid woman. sitting on a nice fortune isnt she? Just another idiot cashing in if you ask me.


----------



## Han72

Hi girls

Loving the Foxtrot Oscar idea! If only I had a quid for every crass comment I've had, I'd be able to pay for several cycles at the ARGC - cash! Sorry to drag this one to the top of the page again but this article is like a mosquito bite. I keep trying to ignore it, but it's so irritating I have to scratch it. As others have said they've done, I'm mailing the website. A copy of what I'm going to say is below:
==============================================================
Hi

This is a message for Ms West herself. I hope you'll be kind enough to pass it on to her. I must admit that some of what I say may seem harsh but I have tried my best to remain as polite and respectful as I can under the circumstances. A copy of this message will also be posted on the Fertility Friends website.

Ms West

I read the transcript of your recent Daily Mail article on the Fertility Friends (FF) website. I know it was written a while ago but it's taken me this long to calm down enough to send anything remotely resembling a civil response.

I still can't quite believe that someone in your position would say those things. How could you jump on the "blame the woman for wanting it all" bandwagon? Of course, you're welcome to tell your own daughter whatever you like. If you really want your child to just hook up with the first bloke that comes along and get herself pregnant, _just in case_ she might have fertility problems, regardless of whether either of them are mature enough to handle it or whether they'll have to rely on state handouts to keep them going because neither of them has decent jobs, or the fact that if it all goes horribly wrong and they split, she'll quite likely find herself with no work experience, no clue of how to cope without a man in her life and no means of support because she concentrated on getting pregnant before anything else well, as I say, that's between the 2 of you. So far, so 1950's... But I object to you going to a rag like the Daily Mail and basically adding more fuel to the "she brought it on herself" fire. I felt the article was totally unbalanced and completely at odds with what you say in your "Fertility and Conception" book. There were several points that I found irritating at best and downright insulting at worst, for example;

• Why no mention of the fact that many of us were stymied by the bloke not wanting to start a family? I waited 5 years for my man to get a grip!

• Why such a fleeting mention of the fact that the infertility is often male factor and nothing whatsoever to do with the woman's job or lifestyle?

• Why criticise those ladies who suffer with such chronic period pains that they HAVE to take painkillers in order to be able to function? What are we supposed to do? Take to our beds for 5 days a month? Well I suppose that's no problem if we have no jobs so I see your logic there. Of course that might mean defaulting on bill payments and the like but there you go.

• Why drag up that overused and misleading "fact" that we "just need to relax more"? I personally WASTED 2 years listening to that rubbish, as it turned out I had hydrosalpinx to such a degree that my chances of falling naturally were almost non-existent, 2-3%. On the other hand, if a miracle had occurred and I HAD fallen naturally, the chances of a miscarriage were a massive 50%. What good would "relaxing" have done me? Are you really unaware of how much MORE stressful it is for a woman to be told that the fact she's not getting pregnant is her own damn fault? As if we don't already feel guilty enough even when, as in my case, it is through no fault of my own that I'm now infertile?

• Most importantly, why no reaction to the uproar the article has caused? Can you really be unaware of how much offence has been caused by some of the incredibly crass comments made in your article? I realise that it would be difficult to keep track of all of the reactions to all of your journalistic endeavours, but the fact that the DM piece doesn't appear on your own website's "what the papers say" page speaks volumes.

In the unlikely event that you really are somehow totally unaware of the anger your article caused, and you really haven't seen any of the reactions (despite the fact that at least one of the posters on the board says she has already sent you a link to the relevant board on the FF website then please find a link to the relevant FF board below:

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=151412.0

I would strongly suggest that you post a few words of explanation or clarification. This is not going to die down if you keep quiet. It could go a long way to smoothing extremely ruffled feathers and ensuring a reduction if not an end to the brickbats currently coming your way. At the very least you might like to post a comment to correct some of the more furious reactions on the board as some people are reacting to other posters' comments rather than the article itself and therefore some of your remarks are being taken out of context. Not that the context makes it look much prettier I'm sorry to say but still...

As for me, well I've spent a fortune on your vitamins in the past but if no clarification is forthcoming then I shall have to assume that this is a true representation of your opinion of us and, then I'll be switching to Marilyn Glenville. I will also be recommending her vitamins to others in future (I used to recommend yours). Also, in a bid to avoid the "obsession" with diet and lifestyle that you mention in your article, I'll be chucking your book in the bin and posting a comment on Amazon advising other readers NOT to buy it either. If I can prevent just one woman from having a panic attack because she had a latte once during down-regulation then it's worth it.

To be honest, I don't really expect a response, as your article clearly expresses the contempt with which you seem to regard us naive, selfish, "want it all" individuals but I just wanted to let my feelings be known in the hope that common sense will prevail and that you'll step up and publicly acknowledge how offensive that article was. You might also want to add a "thank you" for the thousands of pounds that all of us have contributed to your business over the years. After all, if your daughter is in a position to be able to forget about her career and concentrate on having babies, I would guess that's because she's in a pretty privileged position. And if that's the case then I would also guess that's partly down to all of us naïve infertile types buying into your contradictory philosophy, isn't it? Please think about it and then ask yourself whether your continuing silence isn't doing you more harm than good here.

Regards


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## Blu

Wow - great letter Nix!


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## kara76

well done for writing this

im with you on this and feel i have lined her pockets by buying just 2 of her books


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## minttuw

Well done Nix!!! Fantastic letter, I wish I could write like you!!! 

Now awaiting Ms West's response with interest. Wonder how long we have to wait...?  

Minty


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## Miranda7

Whoo! Yeah yeah yeah YEAH Nix! *wiggles hips excitedly*

You go get 'er. Stoopid woman that she is.


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## cherriepie

Hey Nix

Wow - that is a fabulous response!!!  


xxxxxx


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## Wraakgodin

Excellent letter!  I think it sums up what we feel.

I am still stunned about the article.  To show such contempt for those who have put their trust (and also their money) in her.

I hope you get an answer, it will be interesting to read.

Sue


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## weeza82

Nix, that was a fabulous, balanced and thought-provoking letter!  You were able to say, very eloquently what I have thought since this article first came to light. Excellent reading!


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## Wombly

Nix - well done on the letter. Will be interesting to see if there's any response.
Wombly x


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## Jane D

Excellent letter Nix.  Have you thought of sending it to the Daily Mail too?  The whole media needs re educating though, but that paper is a regular offender.

Cheers

Jane


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## Lentil

Great Letter Nix - I echo Jane D on her suggestion of sending it to the Daily Mail too! 
x


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## Just a girl

Nix


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## Lentil

Justagirl - another fab icon! I still want a trumpeting teddy! Bring on the Trumpets


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## Nikki2008

Great! Well done Nix, a fab response


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## Han72

coo you lot, such praise!  I'd blush if I could   

I understand why some of you feel I should send the letter to the paper but I really don't think it's worth it.  I don't think our friends at the DM really care about the accuracy of their reporting, nor do they care who they hurt, for them it's all about increasing readership...  They'll push buttons as much as they can without getting sued!  ZW on the other hand has a vested interest in ensuring that her views are represented accurately and that she doesn't alienate the very people who keep her in business.  

Still no response though, perhaps she's taking legal advice before speaking out again...?

x


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## Jinty

Hi all, I've just come across this thread now and am as annoyed as all of you about it but to be honest for all those people who believe she's been misquoted/ done a disservice by the Daily Mail, have you never seen her interviewed on TV? I've seen her several times on the likes of 'This Morning', 'The Wright Stuff' etc. and she has been peddling this nonsense for years (straight from her on mouth on live tv, no nasty journalist twisting her words) which is why I've always had so little time for her - see my comment from a year ago when she was on the Wright Stuff http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=99108.msg1417327#msg1417327
Bad as the Daily Mail is, this one is not them twisting her words, this is what she really believes. I just can't believe she's gotten away with it for so long


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## crazycatlady

Thank goodness for this thread - I was just about to order the Zita West book and was checking which one I should get - I'm not going to bother now! Stupid woman!


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## Lentil

It really irritates me that I bought 3 of her books ages ago (must be 18 months or so) and I cant help but refer to them every so often still. sorry ladies.... 

I am going to only use them in absolute must situations now and certainly not lining this womans pockets any further rest assured.
L
xx


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## butterflywings

only just come across this thread..
excellent letter Nix...

I dont have any of her books, but for those that do .. how about asking for a refund... write a letter and ask for a refund, then send the books back to her so she can shove em up her anus........i think you would get a response if suddenely 20/30/100/200 people were all writing asking for a refund..i think personally  that would send the woman in a panic

lol



i think this thread needs to be bumped up every so often... as i never knew anything about it i just stumbled upon this

xxxxx


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## Wraakgodin

She will probably keep the books and not bother sending money back as refund!

I agree with the bumping up of this thread, if only to inform other members who might stray into this section of the forum.  The more people who read it, the more people will boycott her books.

Sue


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## Lentil

Butterflywings -    

Bumped up as recompense xx


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## Greeneyed

Ladies, 

Something has occurred to me this week. Whilst sat in the busy waiting room at the clinic (NHS & Private patients) it has struck me how indescriminate IF is. There is such a cross section of people in that room from all ethnic backgrounds, couples in their 20s, 30s, 40s. People from all kinds of backgrounds most of whom you would definately not describe as have it all career girls but ordinary working class people. Barely a suit in site. In fact I would say that this morning out of 20 or so women I saw in that room
I was probably the only one who one might assume falls into Zita's category of career girl who left it to late. 

However I expect Zita's experience is completely different. Her clinic is in London and lets face it, isn't cheap. Those undertaking 
IVF who can also afford to visit Zita are probably not a representative sample of infertile couples. Chances are they will have good careers and may be a little older, they are obviously keen to try everything or else would not be visiting her. I don't think Zita sees a representative sample of IVF patients. That said even if all her clients were career girls who had let it too late (of which I am one by the way), she would still have absolutely no right to judge them, who knows their individual circumstances.  The problem with this article is that it makes the reader believe all women seeking IVF are the same, ultimately selfish and to blame for their own problems.  

I can see how she may draw these conclusions - perhaps she should spend some time in my clinic meeting your average IVF patient. - Most of the ladies there this morning were young asian women with their husbands, who had neither left it too late nor 
ruined there chances with hedonistic lifestyles.


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## Lentil

Very valid point Greeneyed


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## Kleri

And all this time I was feeling bad because I thought I should be living like an organic nun. I unlike Zita's privileged clients am financially unable to eat the organic food and supplements set out in her plan. I live in Greece and I just bought saw palmetto for DH 50 tabs for 30 Euros (I months supply). DH earns 55E a day. 
To read the article and your comments has uplifted me to the fact that there is being good to your body and then just being an*l. 
We all try to be as healthy as we can be and the stress Ms West causes us by insinuating that we are just not good enough causes us more problems than we origionally had. 
The clinic I go to has a lot of older clients as my con is seen, by some, as the best, the last resort when all else fails. Most people go to a local doctor first! How would younger people afford to go to Ms West? 
Oh and Ms West why is it my fault that the NHS wouldn't believe that I was sick when I had the early stages of a PID? They only did something when I lost half my body weight! I guess that's my spoilt fault too? Don't let me get on to the MF!!!
We need to unite and give ourselves the courage to try and try again. Not worry ourselves into an early grave ... what's done is done.
Stop this woman being the spokeswoman for infertility!!!!


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## Han72

Hey guess what!  I had a reply from the ZW clinic!  In their defence, the practice manager actually replied on Tuesday originally but the message went straight to my spam folder for some weird reason...  Fortunately she sent a chaser email today which did go to my inbox, asking for me to give them a contact number so ZW (who is currently out of the office) can contact me herself when she's back in the office on Monday.  I'm impressed, in all honesty I expected either to be ignored or for some impersonal rebuffal...

I don't have the lady's permisson to do so, so I won't copy and paste her messages here but to sum up, ZW says she didn't write the article herself and apologises sincerely for any offence that it caused.

Also, the practice manager says that ZW sent a message to FF on the subject but it disappeared off the site?  Mods, do you have any idea what could have happened there?  

Anyway ladies, I'll let you know what happens after I've spoken to the lady herself!

Have a nice weekend all

xxx


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## Wraakgodin

WOW!!!!!!  I am lost for words - and that is saying something!  It is good that they have taken the time to reply, and that the lady herself has got involved.

It will be interesting to hear what she has to say on the subject and what happened to her message to FF.

Please keep us informed of any further progress.

Sue


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## Juicy

Nix, great letter and am so glad it has provoked a response.  However, any attempt by ZW and her business and staff to persuade me that she's been misquoted is going to fail

Once I looked into it after reading this article, I realised that she has indeed been banging the same old drum for years and similar quotes from her can be found all over the net. On the babyworld site, she is quoted as saying, in response to the question 'why do so many couples need help to conceive', that she believes "many couples are simply leaving it too late, and then stress and panic take over which does not help with conception"

As Jinty says on the previous page, she has also said as much on appearances on The Wright Stuff.

So it just won't wash, I'm afraid.  She may want to resile from the comments now that we have finally got wise to her, but the damage has been done.  In particular, she will probably want to retract the spiteful comment regarding people getting obsessed with vitamins, because she wants to keep selling them.  But she's no fool and been around long enough surely to avoid saying the nasty things in that article.  I've just re-read it and am fuming again, it's just so unnecessarily nasty

While I'm here and in case she's reading this, I want to add that I am sick of her sanctimonious comments about what we should and shouldn't eat while ttc and pregnant, and, particularly, drink - she insists everywhere that alcohol in pregnancy is a "total no-no, no matter what the research says" - but why should we listen to her over the research?  she's not a doctor and has absolutely nothing to base it on, while there has been sustained and very credible research proving that one or two drinks A DAY won't do any harm.  

Most pg people wouldn't be interested in drinking every day or every week but saying none at all just feeds the culture in which people feel they can dictate to us about what we should do when pregnant, as if we're public property; and in our cases, make us feel even more guilty than we apparently already should be for being selfish 'have it all' types who 'jumped into IVF' !!


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## Lynn E

Hi all,

I think the damage has ready been done,  there have been a lot of women viewing this site and some of them expressing their concern.  I think Fertility Friends members are intelligent and mature enough to draw their own conclusion and her book does make reference to women entering childcare rearing late because of their careers.   The point is women in the past 20 years have been having children later on in life....due to the pill, unable to find suitable partner and economics. 

I am really glad women are no longer seen in society as purely raring machines.

Lynn E


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## Ceri.

Think the bubble is about to burst for the woman who now appears to be 'back-peddling' her statements. Have never taken to the woman full stop. If she appears on the tv, i turn it over. Cringe-worthy.


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## Caz

Nixf01 said:


> Hey guess what! I had a reply from the ZW clinic! In their defence, the practice manager actually replied on Tuesday originally but the message went straight to my spam folder for some weird reason... Fortunately she sent a chaser email today which did go to my inbox, asking for me to give them a contact number so ZW (who is currently out of the office) can contact me herself when she's back in the office on Monday. I'm impressed, in all honesty I expected either to be ignored or for some impersonal rebuffal...
> 
> I don't have the lady's permisson to do so, so I won't copy and paste her messages here but to sum up, ZW says she didn't write the article herself and apologises sincerely for any offence that it caused.
> 
> Also, the practice manager says that ZW sent a message to FF on the subject but it disappeared off the site? Mods, do you have any idea what could have happened there?
> 
> Anyway ladies, I'll let you know what happens after I've spoken to the lady herself!
> 
> Have a nice weekend all
> 
> xxx




Well, I will be interested to see what she says to you personally.

I will ask Admin about the other thing for you and let you know what they say.

BTW, Greeneyed, yes, very valid point. 

C~x


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## cherriepie

Wow - quite astonished that you got a proper reply and that the lady in question will be calling you - your letter was fantastic and thought povoking.  It's a startling contrast to the recent complaints sent to Channel 4 - they simply went down the "fob off route" - am so glad to see that sometimes it does pay off to make your voice heard.  Well done Nix - look forward to hearing what she says.

xxxxxxxxx


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## butterflywings

How about sending her books back to the very paper that printed her comments (daily mail) ask them to contact her to see how she is gonna go about refunding the money

pubilicly....she would have to then speak out 





BUMP
BUMP
BUMP



xxxxxxxxx


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## Caz

butterflywings said:


> she would have to then speak out


I don't understand. Why would she then _have_ to speak out because you send your books back to the Daily Mail?  I'm not seeing the connection?
Surely all that does is put you out of pocket for the cost of postage and consolidate the Daily Mail's already poor opinion of IVF and women in general?

Personally I think, the ball is now in ZW court and it seems sensible to wait and see what ZW has to say to Nix if she does indeed contact her. It seems only fair to give her a chance to defend herself?

C~x


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## alegria

Well done Nix for writing the letter in the first place   
In my view Mrs Zita-so called fertility guru-West can definately try to defend herself but I agree with the others that the damage has already been done. If she's reading this I want her to know that unfortunately I have bought 2 of her books plus spent a fortune in Vitafem, Vitamen and DHA for both dh and I in the last couple of years (even recommended it to others   ) but from now on that's it, KAPUTZ, she's not having one single penny from me anymore. And I'll also make sure that she won't be having any business from anyone that I know either!!

Alegria x


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## butterflywings

I think we are already out of pocket anyway......BUYING the books and the vitamins.... 

i dont think she needs to defend herself..whats been said has been said..i think what ZW needs to do is apologise to all the people who have spent money on her books


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## Han72

Hi everyone

I have just finished speaking to Zita West.  She sounds like a lovely lady and was kind enough to spend a good 20 minutes talking things over with me, though I know she had another engagement to get to.

In summary - she has reiterated that she DID NOT WRITE this article. Her words have been taken out of context and spun by the Daily Mail in order to fit their own agenda.  OK, yes she did make comments relating to peoples' lifestyles and the effect that has on fertility, and she does advocate starting younger but she never intended to insinuate that we are to blame for the situation we are in.  In fact she said that we shouldn't be "berated" for it.  

She told me that she deeply regrets having given the interview at all and as I said previously she sincerely apologises for any offence that was caused.  She says if she'd known how it was going to be reported, and particularly with such an offensive title, she would never have agreed to it.

She mentioned that she felt sympathy for those ladies who turn up with bags full of vitamins and supplements, completely confused about what they should and shouldn't take.  I said that I felt her books contributed to that, and that what she writes about alcohol and caffeine also leads to women feeling that they have to give everything up, but she feels that this is a matter of people misinterpreting what she's trying to say.  I have to say I found that argument less than convincing and I said as much but we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.  

I did ask her to see if she could find her original response as it's one thing for me to come on here and say that she's sorry for what happened but I think it would mean so much more to hear it from her directly.  Having said that, it must be extremely frustrating to have to apologise for having had ones words twisted by somebody else...

I also asked if she'd consider asking the Daily Mail to retract any of it, but she's clearly unwilling to do that and I can understand that.  It would just be giving them a platform to express their messed up views on the subject once again and they quite obviously don't give a damn anyway.

For my part, I apologise for not being able to give a more accurate account of our conversation, but note-taking never was my forte.  However I truly think that she's been stitched up here, she IS sympathetic to us and the hell that we go through and it's just a terrible shame that our old friends at the Daily Mail didn't have the integrity to think about the damage that such an article could cause, not only to our feelings but potentially to Zita's reputation.

I know you won't all be convinced by this response but I give the lady her due, she didn't have to call me personally and defend herself but she did and I hold her in high regard for that alone.  She has also done some sterling work in the field, so even if I disagree with some of what she says, I have to admit that much of it, when put in the correct context, makes sense and she genuinely wants to help.  It would be a great shame if the good advice that she gives was lost or ignored in amongst the furore that this article has kicked up.  Of course we all have to make our own minds up and decide whether we want to take her books as gospel or whether we want to mix and match to suit our own lifestyles but I think it would be a mistake to discount everything she says and judge her solely on the strength of one article, printed in what is, if we're honest, a paper that isn't even fit to be used as loo roll...

Love and luck to all

Nix
xxx


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## Guest

Well done Nix in typing all of that up and letting people know what was said.

Just out of interest, if the DM have not represented her views and re-written words then published them out of context, then surely this is tantamount to libel or defamation of character at the very least?


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## Caz

I think there's a fine line between taking her words and printing them out of context and inventing what she said. I daresay there's enough of her original words in the article to make it impossible to bring a libel action even if she wanted to. In any event it's not always (and in fact often isn't) in the best interests of the wronged party to sue for libel - for instance David Beckham never sued Rebecca Loos for claiming they had an affair yet still claims to be innocent. 

Thank you Nix, for typing all that out and for taking the call. 

I know some will probably not be happy with this and think she's backpedaling to save her reputation but then, I have to ask, why on earth what on earth would she have had to gain from stitching herself up to begin with? 
Personally I suspected all along she was probably misrepresented (and said as much) given the newspaper it appeared in - I've seen her say similarish things about age etc. on TV interviews (and to be fair she has a point) but I've never seen her be that... harsh for want of a better word, and unforgiving. It's good she's had a chance to clarify this with us and it would be a shame if people can't at least take the time to consider she might be the wronged party here.



> She mentioned that she felt sympathy for those ladies who turn up with bags full of vitamins and supplements, completely confused about what they should and shouldn't take. I said that I felt her books contributed to that, and that what she writes about alcohol and caffeine also leads to women feeling that they have to give everything up, but she feels that this is a matter of people misinterpreting what she's trying to say. I have to say I found that argument less than convincing and I said as much but we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.


Point taken and yes, I agree with you there. I actually ended up throwing my copy of _Fertility & Conception_ at DH once because I felt he wasn't taking it seriously enough when, if I am honest, I was probably taking it too seriously myself. A lot of the content of her books is very extreme (water from glass bottles etc.) but I guess all of it is valid in some way. Perhaps it could be made clearer that it's not vitally important you follow every last nuance to acheive a pregnancy. Since my own experiences I have always said that the best way to deal with the information in the book is to take it as a guide not a bible and I think that's where a lot of people get frustrated as it's really, really hard to do everything the book says you should be doing and, I was never any good at doing what I was told anyway! So, yes, take from it what you need but most importantly don't let it stress you out if you can't do it all. That's always the advice I give to anyone I recommend the book to and, yes I think I would still recommend it to people ttc as I still think there's an awful lot of valid stuff there and there's not many other books I can think of that deliver the information in as concise manner as hers.

As for the vitamins.... meh, I was a Marilyn Glenville girl myself! 

Thanks again Nix.

C~x


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## Lentil

Caz - I agree with what you say about treating her book as a guide and not a bible. I got really stressed out once with trying to follow everything she wrote and the 'outgassing' of plastic bottles etc does seem extreme looking back even though I insisted that we buy glass bottled water for a while. We dont anymore and whilst yes I have given up tea and coffee, alcohol and I try to get my diet right and drink 2l of water a day I do still have squash and sugary things like ice cream too (yum) and I dont do acupuncture but I am trying to keep my stress levels down.

Like everything I guess moderation is key.

I think its good ZW took the time to talk to Nix and well done Nix for provoking a reaction and getting a response too. That article does still bug the life out of me.

L
xxx


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## kara76

i think alot of people see zita west as some kinda god and think because they have read one book know the ins and out of ivf, but girls we must remember this lady is

a fertility expert NOT an infertility expert


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## Caz

Very valid point Kara.



Lentil said:


> I got really stressed out once with trying to follow everything she wrote and the 'outgassing' of plastic bottles etc does seem extreme looking back even though I insisted that we buy glass bottled water for a while.




You know I had a hard enough time just getting myself to drink water instead of tea. In the end I only did it through drinking flavoured water which not only came in plastic bottles but contained aspartame (which is supposed to not be good for you). Frankly I think I might have been better off sticking to the tea! 

C~x


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## Be Lucky

Thanx  Nix for taking the time to do this - how are you?

I have been to see Zita a few times about a year ago and she only charged me halfprice cause she knew money was a problem - a nice lady.

I think her service does cater for people with dosh though - the offices are really plush!

I wonder if she has seen a drop off in customers!

bernie


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## Han72

Hi Bernie

am fine thanks!  Wow,she charged you half-price?  That doesn't sound like the actions of a money-grabber does it?  I do think she's been done a disservice by the DM, I hope people don't use that article as a reason not to go and see her.  If people read her books and decide that they find her ideas completely abhorrent then fair enough, but having spoken to her, I really feel that she shouldn't be judged on the basis of this one article.

Good luck for your natural cycle hon!

xxx


----------



## Jinty

Thanks Nix for posting the results of your conversation but it hasn't changed my opinion at all and I do believe she's only called you as a result of the backlash to the article and the potential or real impact on her business. Having seen her interviewed several times it doesn't wash that she was misquoted because the most offensive parts of the article are the things she has said live on TV on many, many ocassions. 
Her sanctimonious attitude has been evident in all those interviews and she ALWAYS talks about not having enough sex and leaving it too late. 
She may well be a lovely women who ocassionally gives discounts to people at her clinic (I'm sure she can afford to) but her narrow minded attitude to fertility which puts a huge amount of guilt on women has always been there, it's just illustrated a little more graphically in this article.


----------



## Caz

> ...and she ALWAYS talks about not having enough sex and leaving it too late.


To be fair, both are very vaild points. Just because they don't apply to everyone with IF problems doesn't make it any less true. 
She's not the only fertility expert to say such a thing; I've heard Robert Winston went on tv saying much the same.

C~x


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## Juicy

Caz, agreed - but then she should make it clear to the people who go to her clinic that she's advising on an extremely narrow range of problems, eg those of people who don't do it enough.

If people aged 35 who do it plenty  turn up at her clinic, with a family history of endo, who've been trying for a year, perhaps it's best not to suggest that they valuable waste months and hundreds of quid on acu, without *also * seeking a medical check up?

I don't accept that i left it late, or that I was impatient and "wanted it all, right now" - but clearly there was a problem and if you think leaving it too late is an issue as a fertility 'expert', you really should suggest medical check ups at least alongside the alternative stuff. I'm so glad I didn't allow myself to stay in denial and waste any more time on treatments at her clinic, when as a matter of fact, I was not going to get pregnant without IVF


----------



## Jinty

Caz said:


> ...and she ALWAYS talks about not having enough sex and leaving it too late.
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair, both are very vaild points. Just because they don't apply to everyone with IF problems doesn't make it any less true.
> She's not the only fertility expert to say such a thing; I've heard Robert Winston went on tv saying much the same.
> 
> C~x
Click to expand...

Got to say he's another one I don't have any time for but that's a seperate issue...

Of course those things are valid points in some cases but I would say from the unscientific research of being on these boards for a couple of years that it's quite a small minority of cases and mentioning the same two issues in every interview she gives is playing right into the hands of the likes of the Daily Mail who would have the world believe that it's only high flying career woman who 'want it all' that need IVF; when just a cursory glance on this website would show that IF affects all ages, all classes and for all sorts of reasons. 
To me it's a bit like being an expert in broken bones and talking constantly about people getting drunk and falling over, yes of course people getting drunk and falling over contribute to the number of broken bones reported each year but it's just one reason of a huge number.
The thing that particularly bothers me (and this article illustrates the opinions she's been offering for years) is that there is little if any mention of MF, and the 'blame' is always laid at the door of the *women * who 'want it all' and left it too late (oh and presumably have a headache on a regular basis).

I just think that in her position she could and should explain at every opportunity that IF affects people for a wide variety of very complex reasons and rather than feed the myth that IVF is all about women who 'want it all' she should be trying to debunk it.


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## Betty M

The leaving it too late thing is something nearly all obs/gyns say because so far they cant stop menopause and unfortunately none of us can guarantee when our egg supply is going to dwindle/dry up regardless of any other factors in play. A couple of spokeswomen for the RCOG got a lot of press a couple of years ago for saying just that.  At 35 no one should be told to wait more than 6 months before seeking all the basic tests in my view alongside any other things they might like to try. As I recall from when I saw ZW she plugged ARGC and the Lister a lot so she cant be that averse to IVF as a solution. I stuck however with Robert Winston (for whom I feel rather differently to some  ) and his clinic and did fine. 

Betty


----------

