# HELP!! Lister or Serum - Need to Make Decision ASAP - any views??



## heart1964 (Oct 28, 2008)

Hello everyone,

I am in a real dilemma and need to make a decision very soon.

I was all set to got to Serum to have a consultation with Penny who still thinks I have a chance with my own eggs, and she has also recommended a hysteroscopy.  I know that Penny practises mild or natural IVF and she quoted me 7% success with mild and 12% with natural (she said they had even had twins with natural).  Penny seems to be recommended highly on FF.  I had planned to go to Serum when my AF started, CD27 at the moment (but I have longer cycles) and we are looking at flights as we speak.  

However last night I spoke to Raef Feris from the Lister.  I saw him in December and was very impressed but decided to go for tx elsewhere at the time, but I like him very much and feel I can trust him.  He said why are you going to Athens for a hysteroscopy?  As far as he is concerned it is a standard procedure and the likelihood of things being picked up at Serum that weren't seen here is not very high.  Although I am sure I have seen examples on FF of people who have had hysteroscopys in the UK which were fine, then they've gone to Serum and found they have a uterine septum.  He was very sceptical about this.  

He seemed to think mild IVF was OK but natural IVF definitely not.  Raef said basically it's a numbers game so why would I reduce your chances to just one egg when I can give you so much more of a chance with more eggs?  How can two consultants have such different views and what am I supposed to make of it all, I am not an expert, aghhhhh!!!!!  

I am very confused and have to make a decison asap.  I don't know whether to stick with the decision to have a hysteroscopy in Athens and then decide, or to put my eggs in the Lister basket.  I have to say I am also a bit concerned about having a general anaesthetic at a hospital in Athens, at a hospital I've never been before, although she is going to give me an aquascan first to see if I need it.

We are also thinking about DE and I think there is a way of being treated at the Lister in less time than the normal 2 years - with more money of course!!

Sorry for the long post.  Any views very much appreciated.

Good luck to all of you, wherever you are in your journeys.

Lots of love, Heart xx


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## wonderweasy (Jul 16, 2009)

Hi Heart 

I can't offer any advice I'm afraid hon but I would be really interested in hearing how you get on. I am 44 - conceived with almost indecent haste twice in 2007 - but 2 x m/c. Spent all last year having teste. Turns out I have sticky blood and will need to take aspirin in future. Have been trying to conceive these last few months but BFN so far  

Such conflicting advice about what our chances are at 44 - I've decided to  start exploring treatment options in a couple of months but am completely confused whether to look here or go straight to somewhere in Europe. 

I don't know my IVF from my IUI so would really welcome any tips you have about where to start etc. I am new to all this and completely overwhelmed by it. I've tried talking to my GP but he doesn't think I should be that worried as yet - easy for him to say! DP almost as bad and thinks we have all the time in the world  !! Bless him. 

Would be so grateful for any advice 

Big, big hugs and LOTS and LOTS of luck,  

Louise. x


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## pobby (Jun 2, 2005)

Hello heart
I can only offer my PERSONAL view...I hated the Lister and love serum with all my heart!!  I know heaps of people who are Lister fans and maybe i got unlucky with the consultant that i had but I found it unfriendly and impersonal...she didnt offer any follow up when it went t*** up...withought going on too much It was the worst time of my fertility treatment! 
yes, i understand your reservations and indeed that Drs about having a hysteroscopy in Athens but you only have to go onto the serum boards to see the amount of people who have had 'normal' hystos in U.K and multiple IVF failures and then had a hysteroscopy in Athens where polyps, septums etc were found and they have gone on to have babies... I am a nurse and believe me I would not advise people to go to a hospital that i thought was unsafe or unclean in any way! It is totally modern and they know what they are doing..daunting, of course but you woulf feel that here and they speak english..the greeks invented medicine so you have nothing to worry about and Taso the Dr who does the hystos is very experienced and actually worked in the UK for a number of years in fertility. (he may have even worked at the lister but cant be sure of that one) The things they find in greece are not maybe considered to be problematic in the uk....believe me i hadmy reservations about all these hysteroscopys and, the cynic in me, i at first maybe thought it maybe some scam but the proof is in the pudding..penny gets results!!!! and when you get to know her you will realize that she takes her job VERY personally....her greatest love is making babies for women. she is so passionate and caring her attitude is awesome and i have never in my life met a Dr like her. 
so! that is my opinion of the two places but mine only..i wish you luck in whichever road you travel..ultimately you have to do what is right for you... good luck!  
Louise, please dont feel that i am being rude, but you need to find a GP who takes your desire to have a baby seriously! at the age if 44 time simply is not on your side...I would ask for your hormone levels to be checked AMH and FSH (AMH is a predictor of egg reserve) this declined very quickly as we get older and can be a useful predictor of how you will respond to stimulating drugs (for IVF) if you do decide to go for iui then i would advise not tohave too many gos at it....the reason for this is..it takes time! and it is so demoralizing when cycle after cycle fails.... I would suggest you contact a local fertility clinic or one with a good repuation near to where you are..ask for a consultation and they will be able to give you a better idea of treatment options so you can devise a plan with your DH. As with heart I would have no problem recommending Serum in Athens...why dont you pop over to talk to us on the serum board under Greece on the international boards and see some ofthe success stories.... I amnot saying you should immediately go for donor eggs but it may be a neccesity at some point..
best of luck to you
love pobby xx


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## dtw01 (Jan 28, 2007)

Have no experience of the Lister, but Penny and the Serum staff are superb.

After 4 failed attempts i am now having a break but will be having a hysto in Athens next as Penny refuses to treat me until i have one as she doesnt want to take any more of my money - can u imagine a UK doc saying that ? and to be honest i trust the doctors over there far more than any i have met over here !

My DP is so cynical about the whole IVF thing and has problems dealing with it emotionally, but even he says that we will get there now we have found Penny, he trusts her 100%.

U have to go with what your heart, and head says hun - whichever one you choose, if it doesnt work u will wish you chose the other, buit if it does then you will have made the right choice.

Good luck

H xxx


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## Violet66 (Dec 28, 2007)

Another vote here for Serum. 

I never had any treatment at the Lister but I did go and see them for a consultation and i felt very much like a number. I got the feeling that even if I had zero chance of success they'd still happily take my money. 

As the others have said, it was such a different story at Serum. I am going to be treated there in the coming months and I'm the same age as you but I am not going to try with my own eggs. I'm fit, healthy, my hormone levels are ok but at the end of the day I'm 43 and my chances of success with my own eggs are about 5% - or to put it another way a 95% chance of failure. Weigh that with a 70% chance of success with donor eggs and it seemed obvious what route to go down. But that's a decision I've reached after a year of agonising. 

Penny did also say to me that I could have a shot with my own eggs and that there was a chance - but I don't want to try as setting myself up for almost certain failure doesn't seem worth the heartache. 

A purely personal view of course. but it might help you in some way.


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