# Sorry, another cell question im afraid.



## madison (May 6, 2005)

Hi,

Sorry I only just noticed this thread was open again, hope I am not to late to ask a question.

I am going to do my 8th ICSI/IVF next month & I am a poor responder, age 41.
My follies over size 16 on last scan date always have eggs in them ( well so far anyway ! )
even tho they do seem to be immature unless they are as big as 20 on last scan, my
question is... I have always had a 2 day transfer & I have always had put back the only
embies I have as I only seem to get 1 or 2 as I only get 2 to 4 follies.

My first go.. 2 grade 3.5 ( very poor as only go to 4 )..... 2 cell

Second.. 2 grade 2 ....4 cell

Third.. 1 grade 2.........2 cell on afternoon of day 2 so had stopped dividing.But grade 2 as no fragmantation.

Fourth.. 1 grade 1... 4 cell   [fly]BFP[/fly] ( 1 embie from 2 follies, 2 eggs, 1 fertilised   )

Fifth... NO FERTILISATION

Sixth..NO FERTILISATION as to immature

Seventh.. 2.. grade 2.... 2 cell

I basically asked this time if my embies (if I have any ) are only 2 cell on day 2 I don't want a 2 day transfer
& my clinic were not happy with this.. I told them that if we go to day 3 & they are still 2 cell then I will
not have transfer as there would be no point as its obvious they had stopped dividing.
He said I was very brave to do this but in my opinion having a 2 cell on day 2 is almost a failed cycle
& I don't want to go thru another 2ww having had a 2 cell but back ending in yet another BFN so I want
a day 3 transfer unless my embies are 4 cell on day 2.

Am I wrong & can I insist on a 3 day transfer ??
I did always think they were better inside me than in the dish but I know that all the women who had
EC on the same day as me had 4 cell on day 2.. I know they say a 2 to 4 cell is ok for day 2 but honestly
should they really be 4 cell ?? Does it depend on what time in the day you have EC ??
IF your EC is something like 12 but your transfer is 8.30 on day 2 is it more likely to be a 2 cell
than a 4 or is a 2 cell more acceptable on day 2 if the EC was later morning & the ET really early morning ?

Sorry if this doesn't make sense but hope it does cos I have got really discouraged with 2 cells on day
2 & on here I have always asked questions about 2 cell on day 2 & there really does not seem many
at all.

At 41 & after paying for 8 ICS/IVF's I dont really have much time left.. or a never ending pot of gold !

Thank you

Katy xxx


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## CrystalW (Jul 25, 2007)

madison said:


> Hi,
> 
> Sorry I only just noticed this thread was open again, hope I am not to late to ask a question.
> 
> ...


Hi Katy,

I can see you have been through a lot. I think it breaks down into two areas - embryo cell division and your choice for an ET date.

You are right that we usually quote 2-4 cells on day two and that some of this is dependant on the timing of things - it is usually more of an issue when fertilisation took place - if you have IVF you can not be sure at what times after the sperm was added that the eggs fertilised. With ICSI you can be a bit more specific. 
We know that a lot of embryos do stop quite early on in their development and one of the more common stages can be two cells. So, 2 cells is ok, 3 or 4 cells is nicer to see. Doing an embryo check at 8.30 i would expect to see a lot of 2, 3 and 4 cells. For ETs earlier in the morning i would expect there to be quite a few 2-cell embryos being transferred.
The problem is because not all embryos behave exactly to the pattern that we may transfer a two-cell in the afternoon that may just be about to divide again even though timing perhaps suggests otherwise. 
In general i would not say that puting back 2-cell embryos is close to a failed cycle. It can be a real acheivement to get to this stage and every embryo was 2-cells at some stage. However, i can completely see your point in your case.

Re Day 2 vs 3 ET. Its difficult - i really cant comment on an individual clinic- your clinic has strict protocols in place that are there to help and protect everyone. However, your request sounds perfectly reasonable and i would set everything in writing to your consultant. If they will not support you, you may wish to consider another clinic.

Best wishes


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## madison (May 6, 2005)

Hi,

      Thank you very much for your detailed reply  

      They did let my friend have a 3 day transfer ( tho it took some convincing from her ) 
      so I think I will wait till EC as thats prob the day I will see the consultant again, there 
      are 2 at my clinic & we pay extra for the ' main one ' to do our EC & he's not the one
      we saw last time so hopefully he will be happier to agree to a 3 day transfer. We have 
      been to 2 other clinics & ended up back at this one because its closer. If this treatment
      doesnt work then we will go to the Lister ( which we did on our 6th go ) to see if they
      will try anything different.. If not then you never know.. we might call it a day.. Wonder how
      many times I have said that  

        I know it would be much better if we had more embies to choose from but with only 2 to 4
      eggs I know I am lucky to end up with 1 embie to put back.. but I would just be happier if it 
      were a 4 cell like Miles was  

        Thank you very much again.

              Katy. x


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