# Implantation issues



## MJ1 (Aug 8, 2011)

Hi Ladies,

Does anyone know if you can have tests done for implantation issues? I have had four failed cycles and apart from one abandonment due to lining issues I have got to my OTD date.  I did have had full immunes on my last round, plus intralipid 2 months prior while trying naturally. 
Just trying to work out what, apart from my age is stopping me getting pregnant. I am ovulating, releasing eggs and we have fertilised 12 eggs in all the cycles we have done, it is just when they are transferred it all goes wrong. 

We are now trying naturally but if there is a fundemental problem then we are wasting time. My periods are light, I only bleed for about 3 days so for sure there could be a lining problem, I have had supplements to help this during IVF cycles.

Just wondered if anyone else has had a similar problem?

Thanks for reading  
MJ1 xx


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## Violet66 (Dec 28, 2007)

Hi MJ 

What has your lining measured around time of transfer? 

When you tested negative did you just use the home pregnancy tests or did you ever get a blood test as well ? 

I also have issues with implantation - but I know from my last cycle (from taking a blood test - even though Clearblue was negative) that there had been some early implantation because the HCG came back around 5ish.  That last cycle was with intrallipids - so at least I know that they did something and if I tried again i would need to have more intensive intrallipid treatment.

Have you had a hysteroscopy? Are you certain there are no fibroid issues?


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## MJ1 (Aug 8, 2011)

Hi Violet,

I had a hysteroscopy and lap in 2009 before I underwent any cycles. I am not aware of any fibroid issues, but a small amout of endometriosis was detected.

See below lining for my cycles a couple of days before EC, I have never been measured at ET:-

May 2010 - 9mm
Feb 11 - 7mm
Oct 11 - Didn't get to EC - lining too thin and eggs very large....
Dec 11 - 6.8mm

I have never had blood tests results for any of my cycles, clinics have never offered it NHS or Private, so I used pregnancy tests and then period has arrived shortly after.

It is a nightmare trying to work out what is wrong, there are so many avenues to go down.....

Thanks
MJ1


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## Bubalu (Jun 30, 2012)

I'm so sorry you've experienced so many set backs  . I don't have personal experience but I do read a lot and this article may be useful...

http://voices.yahoo.com/increasing-thin-uterine-lining-naturally-716513.html

/links


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## MJ1 (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks Bubalu, appreciate the link xx


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

There is no real test for implantation issues.

I always had a lining that was fine when it was measured and checked.
I did all the immune testing with argc and nothing flagged up.

I did chromosome tests, DH did too, nothing came back.

I had numerous hysteroscopes with various clinics and nothing came back out of the ordinary.

but for ten rounds of fresh ivf or icsi cycles I didnt fall pregnant.

On the 10th round we put the embryos with my eggs into my surrogate and she fell pregnant with twins although she lost one, we have a beautiful daughter.

On trying for a sibling with my surrogate it took 3 fresh rounds and I am 41 and my eggs made her pregnant again with twins. This time sadly we lost one at 16 weeks but we are expecting a little boy soon.

Clearly I have implantation issues.


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## MJ1 (Aug 8, 2011)

Hi Nevergiveup1,

Wow what an amazing story and a very brave lady. I thougt 4 cycles was tough but you really live up to your name. You so deserve the end goal and good luck with the birth of your son.

I know that there are no real tests I just wanted to hear what other peope had done and if it would help me. I too have had every test under the sun, immunes, thyroid, chromosome tests (hubby ex donor so all his tests were done way back), hyst, laps, you name it we have been there. 

Problem is I have never fallen pregnant naturally or with IVF, hence the reason I think that there is more to this but what!  
How expensive is a surrogate? I did look at DE but not sure that is the route that I want to go down....

MJ1


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## MCR (Apr 23, 2012)

Hiya,
Just wondered if you have tried acupuncture and other herbal remedies? If you are taking some time out from treatment, it might be worth treating yourself to some alternative therapies, both to help you relax (and recover from the treatments you have had), but also to improve blood flow to the uterus and perhaps overcome implantation issues?
Apart from the acupuncture, Mayan abdominal massage (avirgo) is also normally recommended for implantation/ lining issues, and so is raspberry leaf tea (but stop drinking as soon as you get pregnant- perhaps worth popping into Neals yard or somewhere similar for a chat?
Another thing that might be worth thinking about, is mild IVF - it might not be appropriate at all, but it does sound like you don't have problems producing eggs/ fertilisation, and sometimes the drugs can thin out the lining, hence why a milder approach might suit your better?

Anyway, those were just my thought good luck!

Xx


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## MJ1 (Aug 8, 2011)

Hi MCR,

Yes I had accupuncture from March to December last year with a cycle in October that was abandoned due to lining issues! I couldn't believe it, all that money spent and it got worse.
As I say I have tried most things, will look at raspberry leaf tea.
Yes I may  look into mild IVF, I have looked at the Create website a few times so maybe I will revisit that. 
Thank you for taking the time to write.
Good luck to you too!
MJ1 x


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

I did natural IVF and mild ivf and accupuncture and none of these made me pregnant, but I am sure they may work for someone, they just didnt work for me, we are all unique and nothing worked for me.

In the UK you can only pay reasonable expenses as you cannot do surrogacy for profit.

I think it ranges from £8000 - £15000 for the pregnancy from what I have read.
I did my surrogacy in South Africa as I am both south african and british and I found someone in SA to help me and it all just worked out.

The ivf cycle will also be a bit more expensive as they are getting the 2 of you inline with each other cycles.

MJ - To be honest when we did the first surrogacy round we put 3 embryos into my surrogate and 2 onto me. I never really thought it was going to work. I was 38, just before turning 39 and I really thought it was probably my eggs. DH didnt want to try a donor but agreed to try surrogacy as he wanted it to be our natural child. I had thought we would do that and eventually move onto a donor.

But it worked first time and on top of it she got pregnant with twins! Imagine the surprise!! I couldnt even get one of the blasted things to stay!! When AK was born we had her dna tested for nationality and court purposes and I still thought that maybe the doc had made a mistake and used another egg. I made DH promise that if the test came back as she wasnt mine or ours, there was NO WAY we were going to tell anyone!

But she is 99.999% our child by dna testing.

Yes people are scared of surrogacy, and i was terrified! When I was looking at all the legal stuff, I got a bit scared and called DH and said this is too much, lets just leave it. He replied, lets go ahead, if she falls pregnant we will deal with it then.

So we went ahead... it has been a wonderful journey and i feel so priviledged to be able to go through the journey again with my wonderful surrogate mother!!

Wishing you lots of luck!!


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## MJ1 (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks for the info Nevergiveup1! great story xxx


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## MCR (Apr 23, 2012)

Hi again,

Just to let u know we've just cycled with create, and I'm now 9 weeks pregnant with twins feel free to ask any questions, shd u decide to look into create again - we've been really happy with them!

Xx


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## MJ1 (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks MCR, congratulations! fab news.
MJ1 x


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## Passenger42 (Jan 27, 2010)

Hi MJ1


What I did wonder reading your thread is to whether you have ever had your DH take the DNA fragmentation test?  I know you say he has a good sperm analysis, and has been an ex donor, but he is also 46?  My DP has four kids and his sperm looked fine on paper however after 3 failed fresh tx we tested him and he came back with 29.6% fragmentation, so only 0.4% in normal to low range and I suspect its got worse since last year.


The test is not cheap in the UK but may be worth you looking into this as a possible reason?


Passenger x


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## coweyes (Sep 4, 2008)

Have you had chromazone testing? for you and your dh, its called Kayotyping.  I have had 2 failed icsi (one chemical pg) and one nat fet.  I randamly found out that i have a chromazone issue, part of this means that implantation is difficult.  I believe its quite rare and i had no knowledge or idea i had this condition until i was tested.  Due to finding this information i have now realised that having ivf/icsi is not the right treatment for me i have just had a round of pgd/icsi, i am yet to find out if it has worked    .


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## MJ1 (Aug 8, 2011)

Hi Coweyes,
Yes I had Karyotyping as part of my immunes blood testing. All back ok.

Hi Passenger 42,
I didn't think of that, and he is now 47! I suppose as he went through loads of testing and screening at donor stage all that is checked, plus his sperm count is still through the roof at his age too so never really thought that there is a problem with him. 
But would that stop implantation?  I would have thought that fertilisation would have been more diffucult if there was a DNA problem? and if a problem then that wouldn't of happened? I will look into it. 

Any advice is much appreceited.
Thanks Ladies.

MJ1 xx


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## Passenger42 (Jan 27, 2010)

Hi MJ1

The problem with high DNA fragmentation is that the sperm fertilises the egg fine and you think its OK but you end up with no implantation or miscarriage.  It is normally around day 3 of embryo development that the sperm starts to kick in and all my transfers have been on day 2 and day 3, with good quality 8 cell embies at day 3.

I have often wondered if I had gone to blast with the donor eggs I had if they would have made it or they would have failed to develop any further.  The test at the doctor's lab in London is £380 but you can get it for 100 euros at Serum and Reprofit if you go abroad.

It may be worth you googling DNA fragmentation test and reading up on it.  It can apparently be treated with vitamins and antibiotics to try improve the level of fragmentation but if the level is >30% there is a very poor chance of success.  The worrying thing is that men can have a good sample but still have high fragmentation and not know about it.

I am having my next tx with intralipids IV as my Cypriot doctor as given me a prescription to try to rule out any problems with NK cells, but I have not gone and had the tests for level 2 as I cant afford them.

Even when using donor egg the path to motherhood is damn hard    Dont believe all those stories of 60% success rates and its so easy...

Wishing you lots of luck, Passenger xx


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## MJ1 (Aug 8, 2011)

Hi Passenger,

I did get to day 5 last tx so we have got further than the last few rounds. I know Docs lab I used it for a series of blood tests last year. 
It is so hard and yet for some so easy to fall pg.....  

I had intralipids for natural and IVF, then they switched me to steroids for the last tx. Prob a good idea to have it, like your doc says at least it will dampen the NK cells if they are there.

Good luck 
MJ1 x


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