# has IF affected your relationship and how can you move on together if you think



## lipstick (Jan 4, 2006)

have no future together.
How do you do it.
The day you got married you had dreams you would have a family.
What if those dreams are never to be reached can you ever survive.
What if one of you has changed their feelings for the other over the time you have spent seeing your partner in pain and broken hearted for the 7th time after failure.
How do you survive?
My biggest question is how do you survive it together and not let it tear you both apart.
 feeling blue and    hoping for some wisdom from those who are trying to move on.
Cause I never really think any of us will ever move on, I think we will try to cope.


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## Maggie Mae (Mar 2, 2006)

Lipsitck, 

I've got a million and none answers for you, but I'm not in aposition to post them properly right now as I have to go and make dinner. I will post for you over the weekend, suufice to say that there are ways to move on and reconnect with a sense of contentment again....

Wishing you hugs in the meantime, 

Leoarna x


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## Suzie (Jan 22, 2004)

hi lipstick

firstly big hugs to you 

I haven't finished with tx just yet but have spent the whole of my 9 yr marriage ttc and know what IF does to a relationship. I have had it compounded since we started fostering as in one way it has brought us back to communicating with each other again  but on the flip side I see my dh making a wonderful parent   which brings back all the things you try and forget.

I dont have all the answers, I wish I did   I guess its about trying to find the things that made you fall in love in the first place, enjoying the things you used to do together etc 

Sorry seemed to have rambled! just really wanted to say i know where you are coming from 

Im sure the lovely ladies on this board will have some great advice and help for you 

xx


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## lipstick (Jan 4, 2006)

thankyou to you both for your comments
yes big thing communication sorry cant think straight at the moment as i am so afraid it is all over.  our relationship that is. still looking for  
thanks


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Dear Lipstick
I can see that you have had a really tough time of it (the both of you) with going through seven treatments. That must have and probably still has put a huge strain on your relationship. I really do empathise with you both..
I can also understand your reasons and questioning of hopes and dreams that have been shattered through infertility. It really does have a huge impact on our lives.
One thing that i can gleam from your posting is that you have more strength in your relationship than you probably realise? How many people survive or could survive seven failed treatments? Please be kind on yourself that is a long and painful journey, not everyone fortunately has to face.
When you mentioned about the feelings and one changing along the way. Is it really your feelings? or the strain and stress that this has caused you both in your relationship. Its a matter of both keeping your head above water, and also trying to survive yet another round of treatment. But you are still together so there must be alot of strength and closeness in your relationship. 
I am not an expert on relationships, however i have followed all the things your have written. And i know how soul destroying this IF has on couples and i believe the key factor is Communication. I think we become afriad to listen to each other, because we are scared about what we dont want to hear? But maybe its just about getting things off your chest, expressing feelings of anger, tears etc, so that you can find a way forward..
Fortunately i had counselling at the clinic where i received my last treatment and she included my other half. This was powerful and a step forward, because he had to listen to me and vice versa. We are both not afraid anymore, but we are prepared to listen to what we both have to say...which has to be honest and this has kept us going and helped us to have some sort of life..
When you say about coping, i think you are right to a point. But its also about finding you and learning to laugh again and have some life for the both of you. You both feel sad but there are other options out there, but until you start dealing with both of your own grief then things will not be so clear..
Have you thought about counselling?
You are always welcome to join us here...we don't see it as the end of the road, but more as a support group whilst we find ourselves.... and help each other...
I hope i haven't gone on...
Keep in there Lipstick, you have both made it this far you need to give yourself a pat on the back..
lots of love astridxx


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## flipper (Jul 7, 2004)

Hi there Lipstick

I'm sorry you're having such a tough time at the moment. There's not a lot I can add to Astrid's post to be honest.

I wish there was a universal answer to "how do you survive it without being torn asunder". For some it's counselling, for others it's open communication, for us it was time. We needed time to come to terms with what been through and build the strength to face a different future together.

If as a couple you've got through 7 treatments, you must be remarkable (I chickened out after 3) so hang in there.

Take care.

flipper


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## janeo1 (Sep 27, 2006)

Hi lipstick

Im so sorry that you are going though such a tough time. After 7 failed treatments Im not surprised that you feel this way, IF is the hardest journey it seems so unjust and cruel.  To get through so much together means you are stronger than you know.  Please keep talking to each other, hopefully you will both find your way through this and come out stronger. 

Jane x


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## jomac (Oct 27, 2006)

Dear Lipstick
I'm so sorry that you've had such a difficult time.  Infertility puts such a strain on relationships because it brings up so many issues - loss of hope in a future, financial stresses because of the cost of treatment. 
For me the thing that made a difference was accepting ( and it is an ongoing process) that my DH was also grieving and not expecting him to grieve as I did. This is so easy to write down and so hard to do.
That you have survived seven treatments says something about the strength you have. Maybe you just have to transfer this strength to your relationship?
I would really urge you to think about counselling which can be so helpful.
Thinking of you.
Lots love Emma/Joanne


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## Hippy (Aug 2, 2005)

Oh Lipstick hun, the biggest of hugs to you, what a horrible, horrible journey you have had to go through   

As the other amazing ladies on here have said, to have even got through 7 tx attempts is quite remarkable and speaks volumes about what strength and determination you must have even if in todays pain you can no longer feel it. 

Many a time during my failed 3 years of tx, did I just want to run away, even though I loved and do love my Dh beyond words, I still wanted to jump on some plane and never come back to what had become a life of stress and disappointment beyond tolerance levels I could bare. 

What astounded me was when my tx had to all end, despite going through two weeks of complete numbness and shock I found a sense of relief I didn't think I could feel. Not a sense of relief that tx hadn't worked, as I would have given my life for it to have been my miracle, but a sense of relief from the unrelenting hell that is repeatedly failed treatments. I can't say that since it ended things have been good, they have been challenging, heart breaking and  testing but in terms of my love for DH it became even stronger because we did survive that hell of a journey and were just glad to have clung on to each other and made it out the other side. 

My heart so felt for you, stuck in that world of hellish tx and the strain it has put on your relationship, I wish I could say more to help but only your heart can lead you forward and I hope it'll guide you clearly as to what you should do.

Your comment about the hopes you had for married life with children being so central to that, really struck a cord as ever since tx started then ended and now my childless situ, I still find anything to do with my wedding difficult to dwell on, because I always remember how on my lovely wedding day my heart had a moment where it was just bursting with the excited expectation that family with the man I loved were now not far away, and that still hurts to this day knowing that was never to be. So I just have to force myself to not think about it, and I do to some extent make sure I avoid certain topics & events that I know will rub salt in those wounds otherwise I would go totally  

It is a tough, tough journey whatever direction you take, do a day at a time and know we are here for you xxxxx

HUGE, HUGE hugs xxxxxxx
Love
Hippy
xxxxx


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## irisheyes (Feb 2, 2005)

Lipstick - not much different from me either. But as all the others have said you have survived all these treatments together. We also stopped after 3-actually didnt even make it to basting (iui ) as fell apart after others. Dh wasnt keen on any more and i think i could have persuaded him but at what cost We had been trying all 7 yrs of our marriage and i didnt think we would survive any more.

Have you and dh BOTH decided all the tx is over? i think that is key in determining how you move forward. I was angry at dh at first for not continuing- maybe you feel like this My dh had a dd (who i brought up from age 5) but i felt he was not giving me my dream. The gradually after taking time off work etc etc (thought about counselling but still havent gone) i asked myself " do i want a baby without a father or can i eventually cope with having my dh without the baby"? Thats how i finally started to heal. Then matters were overtaken as we had to deal with teenage dd's problems in the last year and we were finally too exhausted to think of a baby WITH a teenager!!!   i am also 36 now and worry about downs etc so that was another factor.

Lipstick, i am not saying things will be easy but they will get EASIER together if thats what you want. My dh knows i hate christenings and he has been to a few without me(latest one yesterday ) as he knows they still have the power to make me fall apart. However if my sibling s have kids in nxt yr we will have to go to them but at least he knows how i feel even if no-one else does.

Hang in there honey- join us here too xxxx


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## Maggie Mae (Mar 2, 2006)

Lipstick, 

You've had a lot of responses to your heartfelt post and I don't know how much more of use that I canpost, but for what these modest pearls of wisdom might be worth....

'a problem is never buried dead' - keep on talking or even writing to your partner, and inviting him to do the same, while accepting that men and women deal with stuff, any stuff differently

keep on talking to others - be that us, a counsellor (try www.bica.net for a specialist infertility counsellor in your area), a local group or 'helpliner' (take a look at the infertility network website). When you're short on people to talk to, worte it down, get it out of your system as much as you can

help yourself to cope - you can do this by taking advantage of any calm moments to make a list of things that might help you when you are low / upset / panicky / whatever, and keep the list close to hand

try reading stuff - I haven't read them myself yet but many of the girls on this thread recommend 'Childfree and loving it' by Nicky Defago, and there's another one called 'Beyond childlessness' though I can't think of the author (would come up on amazon). There are a lot of other people who have had to tread this lonely path before us and there wisdom is invaluable. I also like more general self help books like 'Feel the fear and do it anyway" by Susan Jeffers, and 'Self Help for your nerves' by Claire Weeks. You may or may not like the writing style, but you may just find a message or two worth holding on to. 

trust in the passage of time - it's a horrible cliche, but it's true when people tell you that allowing time to pass will lessen your sorrows, or at least enable you to see other ways through

We girls are always here - I reckon that at least one of us on line at pretty much every moment of the day.

Take very good care of you and your hubby, 

Love, 

Leoarna x


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Hello Lipstick,

How my heart went out to you when I read your post, sorry I did not reply straight away, I had to think hard first. I want to concentrate on what you have to say, rather than just pour out my own story. I hope I have found a way to do so whilst sharing some of my own experience in a way that is helpful.

What little I can add to the other replies is based on the experience of splitting up from my DH for 2 years, not great wisdom about relationships, but tough experience. We went through failed IVF and 7 miscarriages over 10 years, so I do know how the sheer weight of disappointment after disappointment can wear away at a relationship. The good part of my experience is that DH and I have been back together for almost 3 years and have just started thinking about living together again. So we have learnt and eventually survived as a couple.

I hope it helps if I go one at a time through some of the questions that are troubling you?

_"My biggest question is how do you survive it together and not let it tear you both apart."_

I am starting with your last question as it sounds like you are still together and all I am saying below is based on that. If you are indeed together then you could congratulate yourselves on surviving this far through such a difficult journey. Maybe it would help to start to get through the time to come to tell your husband that you are determined not to let this tear you apart? Even if you have already said so, he might need the reassurance of hearing it again (and again.) Maybe you need to ask for his reassurance too? As Leoarna suggests, talking may not be his way, but ask him to reassure you in his own way.

_"What if one of you has changed their feelings for the other over the time you have spent seeing your partner in pain and broken hearted for the 7th time after failure.
How do you survive?"_

You don't say which of you has changed in their feelings, or how. Maybe that does not matter, as long as the feelings still include love on both your parts. As long as love is shared, you have something to build on and hold onto together. The trouble with feeling so very, very depressed after your dreams have been shattered is that you can lose sight of the love and that is a danger to be avoided. Please try and find ways to re-affirm your love. In small ways everyday you can share your love.

It is so easy to turn inwards and stop communicating. Try your best to communicate your love and how you feel. Again, this may be with words, but actions also communicate. Listen carefully and with an open mind and heart.

If you are reacting differently to your situation you may feel that you no longer understand each other. For many couples, each partner reacts differently, as Emma/Jo so generously shared, this was her experience. I think Emma/Jo dealt with it better than I did at first. Reacting differently does not mean you will inevitably split up. Indeed the fact that you may have different reactions can mean you have different strengths to see your partnership through, so long as you recognise and understand one another's strengths and use these to support one another. Understanding and will come if you keep communicating from your heart and listening with your soul.

I hope this will not sound patronising, but all relationships change over time. Sadly, not all the changes are those we choose or those we have to expect to face with age. The expected changes can be easier to deal with than the shock of IF, especially as our contemporaries go through the expected changes alongside us and so can be a good source of support. If you have no understanding and helpful support among friends and family, then you may do well to follow the suggestions about counselling etc and to continue getting support from here as well.

_"have no future together.
How do you do it."_

I am a worried that you said _"have no future together."_ That is why I started by saying your _"biggest" _ question suggested you are still together. (I hope so.) Has one of you decided it is over or said this, or is it more about how you feel right now? I still guess it is more about feelings as you later said _"i am so afraid it is all over. our relationship that is." _

It is certainly common to feel there is no future. We invest so much hope in trying to have a child that when we have to give up on that particular hope it can be hard to feel any optimism for the future.

One of the problems is finding a shared understanding of how we want the future to be. 
Some people are lucky and can do something new and exciting such as setting up a business or sharing in something creative. But if before IF hit you you did not have a really big shared interest to build on, you may not find a new shared one afterwards. That does not make you any less compatable than other couples with children who have very different fullfilling hobbies or careers, yet still have a happy relationship.

I don't think you can force a new "big" future on a relationship. A good IF friend of mine with a dominant personality tried to get her partner involved in an alternative lifestyle centred on saving the environment. He was interested enough to "go green" at home and to go on conservation holidays, join Greenpeace and so on, but he drew the line at giving up his career to go live far away in a "green community." They ended up separating, and maybe that was the best thing for them. But I tell of this because I also think that there is a danger in having unrealistic expectations for a new shared dream.

What then is the alternative? Over time you may find a way of living that brings contentment and even happiness. For me I had to learn to let go of the idea that we had to find some totally new way of being. That brings me to your next question, because I think the alternative has to be found in concentrating on love for one another.

_"The day you got married you had dreams you would have a family.
What if those dreams are never to be reached can you ever survive."_

I think the simple answer is, "Yes, you can survive as a couple." But simple does not necessarily mean "easy," certainly at first.

I do believe that strong partnerships are built on the strengths of two individuals. Their strengths may be different, but nontheless both have their own strengths. At times the strengths of one may be needed to support the other. In a really strong relationship we almost take turns at doing this over the years. The problem in dealing with big issues that affect both partners, like IF, is that sometimes both people feel very weak over a long period of time, making mutual support very hard to offer. At such times we may need to get some temporary support from elsewhere, either as individuals or, better still, as a couple, which is where counselling may come in.

One of the things I found hardest to deal with was that I felt that I had become a different person. I had survived a less than ideal childhood remaining a hopeful and optimistic girl and young woman. IF left her a stranger to me. I hated the "new" bitter me and in a way no longer expected to be loved and felt I had nothing much to offer. If I did not even like me, how could I expect DH to love me still? This was my weakness.

My DH sometimes asked me in sadness "Aren't I enough for you?" At the time I said, "Yes," but really felt, "No, I want a baby." Meanwhile DH was throwing himself into his work which left me feeling I was not enough for him!

DH and I were dealing with things differently and I ended up walking out. This was a shock to everyone, not least me! Only after I left did I realise that he was enough for me. Thank goodness he had enough strength, tenderness and forgiveness in him to have me back! For his part, I think he had to learn that sometimes he had to give me more quality time and share more of his feelings with me - in a way, being a tough man was his weakness.

I so hope that you can find that one another are "enough" and share your feelings without such a drastic way of going about things! One thing we did on our re-union was to make a sort of private ceremony of our commitment.

I suggested above that it could be helpful to show your love on a daily basis. As part of your way forward and when you feel ready, you may also want to do something bigger, such as renew your marriage vows either with a public ceremony, or privately as we did? It might help you both to focus on the positive aspects in your relationship, your strength as a couple who choose to remain together. It may seem tough, but as you acknowledge, your marriage ceremony included the expectation of a family. Now you have to let go of that dream, it could be healing to renew your commitment in a way that says, "We want to be together even without children." I sincerely hope that is how you both feel.

Lipstick, honey, I hope you will stay with us here if you need to.

Much love

Jq xxx


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Jq, that post of yours was so beautifully written and you managed to sum up everything I think I have felt along my own journey of IF and loss also!

Lipstick, I don't know if you and your other half are still together, but as the other ladies and especially jq so beautifully put it men deal with things differently to women, we are all diverse and we all have our own 'coping' or 'not so coping' (in my case as it was then in the past) strategies.

The only thing I can add is please don't go making any hasty decisions regarding your relationship and your future with your other half whilst you are embroiled in the midst of the understandbable grief you are feeling. Grief has a way of numbing our senses sometimes - perhaps that is what you meant when you said about one of you changing your feelings about their partner over time?

Stick with us sweetheart...

Sending you much love and gentle (((hugs)))
Emcee x


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## janeo1 (Sep 27, 2006)

Lip[stick

I have sent you a pm.  Thinking about you
Jane


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