# Unpaid leave at work



## Josie1 (Sep 30, 2013)

Hi ladies, I'm having a lot of issues with my employer due to absence with being unwell due to fertility treatment. 

After a meeting today they suggested taking "a period" of unpaid leave during when my treatment would be. I asked for this on an ad hoc basis which was declined. 

Has anyone else experienced anything like this and have any advice? x


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## mierran (Apr 24, 2009)

Hi,
I took a combination of unpaid leave and holiday to cover my time off. My last 4 cycles have been abroad and 3 of them we for 2 and 1/2 to 3 and 1/2 weeks ( I did one fet as a quick weekend trip and it was an absolute disaster )

My latest cycle I flew out about cycle day 10 and flew back 5 days after transfer, and took 2 days off work after that. 

I was never comfortable with the idea of saying I was sick and I felt unpaid leave was fair. Also as I don't get much sick pay above statutory ( 28 days, I think )  I save it for when I am really ill.


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## Josie1 (Sep 30, 2013)

Thanks for your reply. I think the main issue is that my employer pays me for 6 months full pay x


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## naddie (May 1, 2012)

When I was in employment, I got up to 6 months sick pay, though they wouldn't pay me while going through fertility treatment, they did give me 6 weeks unpaid leave xx


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## ca75 (Jul 21, 2014)

I am also having issues with my employer. I work for the local council and I'm not allowed time off for appointments. They view IVF as a choice & not a medical issue! I am having to use accrued time & holidays to cover appointments 😞
They have finally agreed to me having 2 weeks unpaid leave after my FET on Friday.


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## Josie1 (Sep 30, 2013)

It's a total nitemare ca75, have you used sick leave before? x


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## ca75 (Jul 21, 2014)

I took 2 days off sick after my last IVF cycle resulted in BFN & I was given a warning & put on informal monitoring of my absences for 3 months!!! It's been a nightmare 😩😩


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## [email protected]@h (Dec 11, 2012)

Sick leave is sick leave. If you are unable to work due to physical or mental illhealth for whatever reson you are paid sick leave. 

There are loads of threads like this so I won't repeat them all but once you have either EC or ET you are legally pregnant so anysick leave after this period isclassed as pregnancy sick leavewhich is recorded entirely seperatly from normal sick leave. 

Sounds like your employer is testing you. Stand up for yourself.


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## Riley12 (Aug 12, 2013)

Once you have ET pregnancy rights kick in. 

(The law really needs to change to allow time off; don't get me started on this topic ha!)

Good luck xx


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## Josie1 (Sep 30, 2013)

Yeah I know it does Riley12 but they are saying it doesn't until you have a confirmed pregnancy x


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## Riley12 (Aug 12, 2013)

You need to tell them once the embryo is 'onboard' the rights start; I suggest they take some advice or you get some and show them the literature. 

Riley x


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## Josie1 (Sep 30, 2013)

Yeah thanks Riley, I'm having a terrible time with them  x


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## Teeinparis (Sep 15, 2013)

Pay for an hour and get legal advice with an employment lawyer about your rights.  I think they could be on sticky ground with the dda.  If you had depression it would be medical.  

I would get GP to sign you off for gynie issues.  But also check that with a lawyer.  Free advice is cheap for a reason.  Spend the money and pay.  

Call acas and ask.


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## Turia (Feb 2, 2013)

Hi Josie
I posted in one of your other threads regarding this but noticed that you are still having problems with your employers 

Some of the content I have posted below already but thought it best to keep it all in one place in case it helps anyone else and apologies all for the long post.

As Riley has posted, once an egg is transferred you are legally classed as pregnant under European law. This was this link that I had previously suggested: http://www.thompsonstradeunionlaw.co.uk/information-and-resources/pregnancy-maternity.htm

If the link doesn't work, go to their home page on www.thompsonstradeunionlaw.co.uk , choose the link 'Resources' in the brown bar along the top of the page, then choose 'employment booklets' - it was the Pregnancy and Maternity booklet link. The key info is under 'Ante-natal care'.

I have now done a bit of reading and discovered that this seems to be based on a Judgement in 2008 based on the *European Law Directive of Equal Treatment for Male and Female Workers*.

The 2008 case was based on a waitress in Austria that claimed unfair dismissal. She had egg collection on the 8th March 2005 and was certified sick from 8th to 13th by her GP. Transfer was made on the 13th. She was dismissed on the 10th March. She argued that she was protected from dismissal as the eggs had already been fertilised.

Ultimately the court ruled that the European directive must *not* be interpreted to extending to women simply because the eggs had been fertilised as these could then be frozen for years and it would be against the principle of the directive's protection to protect someone indefinitely - even going so far as to suggest that in theory this would allow women to undergo egg collection and fertilisation (but no further) just to gain protection at work for anything up to 10 years!

However the upshot of this ruling was that conversely, it was ruled that pregnancy therefore began once the fertilised eggs had been transferred into the uterus.

Nevertheless the ruling did go on to discuss the discrimination aspect - stating that whilst workers of both sexes can be prevented from work because of medical treatment it was agreed that IVF proceedings (i.e. removal and transfer eggs) directly affects only women therefore it follows _"that the dismissal of a female worker essentially because she is undergoing that important stage of in vitro fertilisation treatment constitutes direct discrimination on grounds of sex"_.

Riley is also correct in saying that you are only protected from discrimination if they know so you do have to be upfront (after transfer) if it is an issue. Telling an employer that early is not always a good idea but to be fair they can't amend their ways if they don't know.

Please note that as said before I am not a lawyer but as an employer (in Scotland) I have had to develop a fairly good understanding of employment law/responsibilities however I would always recommend you get proper legal or trade union advice - and calling ACAS is a good idea. Nevertheless I thought it may be useful for you to be able to cite a proper source!

Just for that note - if anyone wants to read the full thing it was on the website EUR-Lex www.eur-lex.europa.eu (you then need to choose your preferred language!) Search for document number 62006CJ0506 within the 'Quick Search'.

Good luck!

Turia x


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