# LGBT General Parenting Chat Thread



## Pilchardcat

LGBT general parenting chat thread - for all aspects of LGBT parenting.


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## starrysky

Hi everyone

Survived Adam's first week at nursery, the second day was worse than the first as I realised I was going to have to drop him off again and again. However the third day he ended up back at home with the woirst cold/cough I have seen. I am not surprised, this little girl keeps making a beeline for him and giving him big kisses! 

My exhaustion level is going up again, I only did two days at work! I guess we all have that or have had it? Adam doeswnt really sleep for long periods during the day so I feel like I never get the chance to rest myself. Although he cannot crawl or walk yet he still rolls himself into trouble whenever he can. It is time hor home child proofing I think. 

Bye for now!

Heather


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## duff

Heather - it's so lovely to hear about Adam rolling around and being kissed by girls!


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## lucky2010

*Heather*, i think you've done fantastically getting through the first week of nursery!!!

We've decided to opt for a childminder initially for childcare, only 1.5 days per week. We're interviewing one on Friday.... very nerve wracking (especially since we don't have a baby yet!!). They all seem to fill up so quickly, especially the recommended ones!

*Duff*, you'll be telling us all about your little one being kissed by boys (or girls) too soon!

love Rach xx


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## bagpuss1

Hi Guys,

feel a bit overwhelmed by the split in the threads but I am sure I will get used to it.

Just a query really.... Having probs emotionally with the two mum parenting lark. I just want everything to be right but just dont seem to get there, I either feel too involved and leaving H out or not involved enough and feeling distanced. We have such a lovely home life and Edie is really happy but seem to be giving myself a bit of a hard time over this. I dont know if anyone else has had this?

*Heather* It took me a while to build up stamina when I returned to work, it is so emotionally draining also which just adds to the tiredness. Hang in there, it does get easier.
Hope Adam is feeling better.

Kerry and Edie


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## Edith

Hi everyone

thanks Amanda for all the wonderful threads. Its great you seem to have covered all situations! and if not its great to have the space to create more! THANK YOU. i felt very touched that our little community had such visibility and made me personally feel validated. corny but true. 

Heather, sorry work is so tiring. I suppose the journey doesn't help either. it is hard going back and it is hard juggling both, thinking about Adam, how he is getting on and if everything is OK. It was easier for me knowing Mable was looking after him. Hope it settles down quickly and you feel less tired. How is Adam sleeping? 

rach must be hard interviewing for a child minder so early! probably a good idea even if not necessary as you have more time and energy to put into it. good luck.

Kerry, not sure I am on the same wave length - but think I understand. You too a perfectionist?!!! sorry if I have misunderstood. You are the bio mum right? is this anything to do with that or a generally feeling that you have trying to balance everything, work, you time, partner and girl time. 

I am the bio mum too and have been through a thing where I tried to overcompensate for the fact that mable didn't give birth to M. by detaching myself emotionally from him. I am SO aware that I want us to be equal that I played down the fact that I carried him and breastfeed him and he is biologically my son. this was especially true when M started to appear more attached to me, IE when leaving him, putting him to bed etc. I just felt bad. Mable was also starting to feel left out emotionally. ( This started when he was about one- before that he didn't appear to show a preference). We thought and talked and Mable being the wellrounded person she is re framed it and started to see how M. needed us to be different ( at this stage in his life anyway) he needed a primary attachment. This then gave me the permission to enjoy the closeness. We both feel so close to him that i forget that I  gave  birth to him. it is important I think to enjoy that special relationship. I spend my time denouncing the fact that my relationship with M is different to Mable's ( to straight coupled friends) because we are both his "mums ". However, it is different at the moment.  Mable has her own special relationship too - one i often find myself jealous of - why doesn't he laugh at my games like that?!!!  

All this is probaby nothing to do with what you are going through. Sorry if not. just got me thinking.  I find it so interesting to think about our roles. lesbian parenting throws up so many issues about equality in parenting, boys being raised by lesbians etc. anyway, this little boy has just woken and I haven't started any of my " jobs"  to be done whilst he sleeps! oh well whats new...

Take care everyone ( assuming we are all lurking around on all threads! love the bump photos Gina and rachjulie. fab! Its weird - once born its hard to remember that amazing state of pregnancy. i loved it. such a privilege to grow a baby.)

love edith


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## Mable

Hi,
Re tiredness, can I recommend getting them into a daytime sleep routine - it gives you a break and well needed rest, time to get stuff ready for when they wake up. I don't know how I'd cope without Monty's 2 sleeps - 1 hour 9am-10am when I have a shower and get ready and 2 hours after his lunch. It divides the day up nicely, he is never overtired, and we do little outings in the mornings and the afternoons after his sleeps. 

I know routines aren't for everyone, but thought I'd suggest it. Knowing when he will sleep helps me get through the day, especially when he started crawling and his need for my attention went up.
Mable


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## starrysky

Hi everyone

Exciting news - Adam has sat up himself, Jo was changing him and looked away for a second, when she looked back he was sat up, lookinhg completely non-plussed!

Thanks for energy tips/comments. I have tried getting Adam to nap in the day so that I canhave a catch up sleep but he naps for such short times, and it is very unpredicatable. I think its the lack of rest during the day that is draining me. I get to some points where I feel so tired but there is just no choice but to go on. I get Adam into his cot at night and I'm so relieved but by that time I am exhausted. Work was nice from that point of view I can just sit there and stare into space!!!!

I am often conscious of Jo and I's two roles. It goes back to when Adam was born and went to scbu, rather than me and him having that time to be together we were separated and he spent his first few hours with Jo. I thought I'd "catch up" with breastfeeding and that didn't work so we shared his feeding. Looking back I quite like it that she had that first tiime with him and I quite liked that we shared his feeding. Then she went back to work and I was with him every day and I know she feels she misses out on that time. Like you Edith he does different things with Jo. I'm lucky if I get a smile when I do his bath but when Jo's in there I hear shreiks of laughter!!!! I guess it must change all the time, and who can predict how our little ones will percieve us. 

Better go and get on with a million things before work tomorrow. At least I have mondays off!

Love

Heather


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## bagpuss1

Hi guys,

Yes Edith, you have hit the nail on the head exactly!! I cannot begin to express my relief that I have not just gone mad and yes, I think the perfectionist thing is dead right too. 

I am the bio mum and have been really surprised at how different it has been finding roles when there are two mums. I think the difficult thing is also trying to come to terms with the guilt that Helen has not given birth to Edie and yes I do now find myself forgetting that I gave birth. In fact I think that I tried too hard to compensate and did actually neglect my own relationship with Edie but that does seem to be getting so much better now.

Actually, reading your post it is as if I wrote it! In fact I did actually post a few days ago but deleted it because it was quite an emotional post and I felt really foolish for feeling so bad!

I do think that the way forward is for Helen and I to find our own roles, at present we do everything together for Edie (even down to an amazing dance that one of us does with a nappy on our heads whilst the other cuts her nails strangely called -the "nappy dance")

Heather- I was so aware of enabling a relationship between Helen and Edie when I gave birth, I asked the midwives not to tell us the gender of the baby and left it to Helen, she also spent the first hour with her whilst I was being stitched up. I too love the fact that Helen got Edie dressed and sat with her for that all important cuddle.

Edie too has quite long sleeps in the day- from 9.00-11.30i/12ish and sometimes again from 3.00 for an hour. I cannot begin to explain how lucky we are and really feel for you not being able to have a rest or get anything done. I think the way we cope with the busy days is by going to bed early- about 9/9.30- any later and we are both no good at all.

Ps- well done Adam on sitting up! now the trouble really begins!!! only joking- it is so lovely seeing them change.

Just realised the time wow- I am actually up past 9.30- a miracle!
Love Kerry and Edie


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## Mable

And here I am, way past my 9pm bedtime trying to load little movies of Monty onto Youtube! Just to say, now I've forgotten what I came on here to say, 
Oh yes, ADAM - hurray for the sitting up. He was SO nearly there last weekend when I had a lovely cuddle during the picnic. Hurray! It is such a great milestone that one, finally supporting himself alone. I think we need a little movie of Adam sitting up all alone on Youtube now...
Must go to bed...


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## evelet

wow - well done Adam!

Ros and I seem to have just relatively naturally got into a nice pattern with Jude. He will not take a bottle from me if Ros is in the house (to his knowledge anyway she has been known to hide in the study) so often she does have to put him to bed. I nearly always bath him these days but the fact is that Ros is better at playing then I am (she really really plays with toys with him and I sometimes think she enjoys it as much/more than he does) so he def shrieks more during his bath when he does it. But then he often gravitates towards me with one of his books (or Pooks as they are now known) and he definitely talks to me more than he does Ros. We do have very different roles because Ros is a stay at home mum and I work full time. But when I get home (and they come and pick me up everyday at 5.30pm, and I quite often come home for my 1and a half hour lunch break) he is incredibly pleased to see me and Ros might as well not exist. Ros hates mealtimes and I don't mind so I always do those when I'm at home. I hate changing nappies in horrible stinky public nappy change places so Ros does those (I just can't bear the stench of dirty nappies mixed with disgusting scented nappy bags. yeeeuchh). 

I could go on forever but I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you think about it too much it can become a horrible minefield. If I start thinking about whether I'll ever get a mother's day card from school (when he was at nursery they made sure it was addressed to both of us) and if he'll keep me a secret when he's a teenager I get quite upset but I do realise they are my anxieties not Ros's or Jude's. We are a family - we co-mother. There are no role models for us or set ideas on how it has to be. That's the beauty of our situations - we can just make it up as we go along.


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## rosypie

Heather - just wanted to let you know, I felt the exact same way when I went back to work and Jude went into nursery. It was all so exhausting, all such a race. But, we did all get used to the new groove very quickly. He went to 2 nurseries before I finally gave up work, one in London, and then one up here after we moved.

The nice thing that happened with both nurseries that I wanted to tell you about was that the staff all seemed to get very attached to him, and all seemed to love him and be very pleased to see him. So much so that I felt very attached to the staff and cried when I took him away for the last time - he had such a nice time at both. I hope this happens the same for you.

Ros x


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## LouisandPhoebe

Hello everyone
Wow how many threads.  I like the idea of this one especially as lots of you have children at the same age as Louis.  We to were the first family with two mums at nursery ( they had to change all their paperwork to parent 1 and parent 2) and the first at the doctors etc.  Louis loves it though because everyone at the surgery and nursery knows who he is and always say hello.  I gave birth to louis but apart from that he is as much lees as mine and as we live in the same town as all her family he sees them everyday and there is no discrimination between grandchildren, great grandchildren etc ( actually lees nan said he is her favourite !!!) I think the adoption made it all very secure and final to lees family and easier for her little sister to explain  ( she is 12) she was able to say that her sister adopted louis and he is her nephew. I do understand the inital stages as not breastfeeding Phoebe and not able to stop her getting upset when she is hungry has made me feel sad at times ( she is on expressed milk now so its much better now).  It is remarkable how much Louis and Phoebe look like eachother ( both have dark chestnut coloured hair) and Louis adores his sister.  My parents have been amazing and keep asking to have her overnight  ( Louis goes to them for one night and day a week for man time ( grandad time).  

Louis is going to be 2 on Thursday - where does the time go and his favourite words at the moment it 'Bloody rivers' - He could have picked it up from anyone as we live in Abingdon near the Thames - at the moment all is ok but our friends have been hit hard.  Lee is at home with both children at the moment and i am working full time which is tough for me but i always come home and take them to the park or swimming after school and do the bed routine so that i can have a few hours with my babies.  Luckily its the school holidays now but it is tough being away during the day when i am at school.  I cant believe how quickly everyone is growing up - i can remember when Adam was still in your tummy and now he is sitting up and i can remember when Monty and Jude were  born and now they are very handsome little men.  I will try and post some pictures of Phoebe


Sorry about the long post have no idea what i wrote just kept typing

Lots of love

Charley, Lee, Louis and Pickle
xxxx


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## LouisandPhoebe

Sorry about my  grammar and spelling just re read the post.


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## LouisandPhoebe

I think we all worry too much Edie is a very lucky girl and will not want for anything especially love and support.  I have a class of 28 5 year olds and one child has a few months to live,  one is waiting to be adopted, two are on the CPR and one little boys daddy died  a few months ago.  I think how lucky Louis and Phoebe are to have a stable home with two parents who adore them and have different qualities ( lee is more fun than me) You have a beautiful, very wanted little girl your doing everything right for her


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## Mable

Just to bang on about the daytime routine a bit more - we found we did have to work at it, by always putting him down at the same time, getting him up at the same time, keeping him awake when he nodded off naturally (by shaking bells in his face, blowing in his face etc) - but is has paid off, and he has a bodyclock now. They start dropping the daytime sleep at around 3 so it's still worth working at it, if you are routine type of people.

Eve - its funny you say that, I (as non bio-mum too) have secret worries that Monty will be ashamed of me at school. It would be my worst fear that I would be an embarrassment to him. That's nice, the feedback Ros got from nursery about Jude.

It feels like Monty is an independent little person now, he pottered about the garden on his own this morning (steady on his legs) and shut us in the house, waving 'bye bye' at us. Our little boy...

We are off to France on Thursday, so will be off the boards for a week or so...
Best wishes everyone
Mable, Edith and Monty


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## Jayne

Mable - I just had a peek at Monty on You Tube.  OMG, he is totally adoreable!   So funny the way he's dancing and then catches on that he's being watched    What a cutie  

Jayne x


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## rosypie

have fun in France - we are going to Wales on our holidays for a week from Saturday so will also be off the boards for a while.

Re routines: I'm sure they are a good idea. My nephew had a great routine with a 2 to 3 hour sleep every afternoon and asleep in his own bed from 7pm to 7am. We are quite happy with Jude the way he is though. His daytime routine was always pretty bearable and he is a cheerful boy in the evenings with whinging and crying very rare. In fact as long as we avoid too many meals in restaurants (its no good, he just wants to get up and run about) he is such an easy child.

Jude is now using a lot more words and told me he had a 'hurt head' yesterday. he is also doing a lot of 'bumping' (ie jumping) around the house. And today Ros bought a potty and he sat on it for a bit. No idea what its for but we thought he should just familiarise himself with it. 



(this posted by Eve by the way)


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## starrysky

Hi everyone!

Will do longer post over the weekend but just wanted to post quickly to say what a star Monty is on You Tube!!! Jo and I have been sitting going "awwwhh" at everything he does. He's a future David Beckham that's for sure!

Love

H


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## Mable

Oh ta for your messages about Monty's vids    
We very proud mummies.
Au revoir x


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## starrysky

Hi everyone

Me again. 

Mabe and Edith - we had a better experience with the clinic today and have now got an appointment on 6 Aug to plan a way forward. 

Thanks everyone for talking about routine, I dont know what to do now as I am adjusting to being at work and having just that one weekday. I am getting a lot of work already, and have stayed late twiice (I have to do some extra hours as its a comprressed working week). When I left tonight I managed to bang my car mirror into the recycling bin, I don't know yet how I didnt steer round it as usual. The mirror is gone and we're driving to Mancjester tomorrow night to see Jo's gran who is very ill. So now I ahve to get the miirror sorted on my way to work tomorrow. At ten to five I had news of a cheque arriving for £100 which is compensation for my solicitors delaying my accident claim, at twenty past five I lost the £100 when I destroyed the car mirror!!! And to make matters worse I made another attempt to get the office recycling this morning, making a big deal about the fact that at last we have green bins!!

At least I can laugh!

And Monty cheered me up!

I definitely think its time for Edie, Louis , Jude, Toby, Adam and all babes i've missed to get on there. 

Ros - thanks for sharing your positive experiences of nursery with me.

good weekend everyone.

bon voyage!


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## Damelottie

*Kerry - that picture of Edie is just GORGOUS*


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## Damelottie

*Mable & Edith - that Dancing Monty video is just BRILLIANT!! I laughed so hard   

What a little cutie  *


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## starrysky

Agree Edie is gorgeous!!!

Kerry I would like to see The Nappy Dance on YouTube!

Heather


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## bagpuss1

Hi Guys,

Sorry for going AWOL for a bit, we have no internet access at home as we have moved out temporarily to have our loft converted.

I just wanted to say thank you to you all for your lovely comments about Edie and also for the reassurance regarding my worries about parenting. I am so pleased that I plucked up the courage to post as since I wrote, I have been feeling much more relaxed about things. 

I think it has helped that Helens mum has backed off a bit and stopped trying to take over Edies care when I am there, she constantly made me feel inadequate and incapable. I dont think she actually meant any real harm, by it and I love her to bits, I just think that she got a bit carried away. 

Anyway- alls well that ends well----- for now!

As for the nappy dance- you will all have to use your imaginations!! but I can say this- "We are the cheeky girls" and South pacific mixed with a bouncing 33 year old with a nappy on her head is a sight to be marvelled at! Parenting is so much fun!!

Love Kerry and Edie


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## evelet

I just wanted to post as I have just realised (PROPERLY realised) that Jude is going to be TWO next week. Aargh. Where did the time go

We are going to go away for a week in late Sept/early October with Jude to celebrate our 10th anniversary. We want to go somewhere where there are things to do in the daytime (sightseeing etc) but stay in a hotel which is child friendly and doesn't mind a toddler running about too much. We do not know where to go. We are thinking of Jersey (we have been before and really enjoyed it) or possibly Cornwall. Anyone with any ideas please? We don't really want to go abroad as we can't face too long on a plane with Jude (ideally if we had the cash and an aeroplane nanny to sit with Jude in a different part of the plane we would go to Washington DC to see our friend Betsy or to New York. But can you imagine carting a two year old round new york?!)


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## lucky2010

Hi eve, how about a holiday cottage? Or do you particularly want a hotel? I know a couple of holiday cottage companies i can recommend in the south west if that's where you decide to go.
Let me know and i'll pm you some links.
Rach x


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## LouisandPhoebe

Hi Eve /Ross
Were going to the Maenport resort near Yarmouth in Cornwall for 2 weeks next week it is a collection of 26 cottages on a private estate with own beach and leisure complex ( indoor pool, gym, games room) and a restaurant on the beach.  This sounded the best child and weather friendly holiday to us.

Hope this helps
Charlie, Lee, Louis and Phoebe
xxxx


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## Mable

i know you said not abroad, but having just been to Northern France, I really recommend it. It takes under an hour on the ferry (and little boys love boats) and is so child friendly. We love the coastline along West of Boulogne, Wimereux, Audreselles, lovely sandy beaches, fishing villages and so classy compared to UK beach resorts. Boulogne has a big aquarium with baby sharks and the coastline would be beautiful in the crisp autumn. The food in France is wonderful too. 

On another note, I'd be interested to know how those of you raising boys are finding their obsession with trucks/trains. I am horrified at how obsessed Monty is with tractors, diggers, lorries, boats. We've made a consious effort for him to have dolls, he has a girly ballet book, but he is just obsessed at the moment with big moving vehicles. This seems like nature winning out over nurture. For those of you raising girls, do they stand and shout 'DIGGER' with a manic, desperate look in their eye at every truck that passes by?
Mable


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## ritzi

mable

i'm not a parent (yet   ) but had to comment on the DIGGER situation  

my niece is 2 and despite being a daddies girl is such a tomboy. Her eyes too glaze over in wonder if a tractor or farm type vehicle goes past - she also wanders around with a screwdriver in hand in case an opportunity arises to 'help' daddy (he's a DIY obsessed electrician   ). Her favourite toy is the wooden train set we keep at our house  

my cousin has 4 boys   and the first is so non-boyish and oh so camp (no surprises if/when he comes out  ) he's incredibly feminine and at 10 shows no signs of enjoying sports and rough/tumble stuff - preferring to sit and read a book or watch birds etc.....the other 3 (aged 7, 4 and 2) are stereotypical boys, into everything and obsessed with vehicles etc   funny really as they have all been treated the same by the same mum and dad  

maybe little ones are just fascinated with modes of transport  

ritz. (ps hope the stimming goes well this time   )


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## pem

Mable,

another non parent here!! Have to tell you that my nephew is Crrrrrrrazy about diggers, trains, cars, lorrys, boats, the list is endless. I absolutely recognise your description of the manic look in the eyes, he has a big tractor here at our house which he absolutely loves. We took him to the local county show and you should have seen him with the farm machinery.....    .

Me thinks a lot of little ones are the same, boy or girl ??

Emma


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## bagpuss1

Hi Guys,

Edie loves planes, trains, anything really that makes noise and moves, I like to think that we have bought her up with no gender specific toy loving attitudes, and have been really surprised to see that she absolutely loves pink and has a particular fondness for her pink toy pushchair (one of our cats seems to quite like being pushed round in it with a blanket to keep her warm!)

In fact we have been really mindfull of the nature, nurture thing and have been watching Edie with interest to see how or if it plays a role. How have you guys found this? Never really taken it seriously but it has been just out of interest.

Kerry and Edie


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## Mable

Well good to know that the digger craze is gender neutral. For those of you whose kids are into diggers, tractors, cranes, boats, do any of you like these lovely books called Dig Dig Digging and Choo Choo Clickety-Clack by Margaret Mayo and Alex Ayliffe - great rhymes and lovely collage pictures.


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## evelet

ooh those books sound good.

Jude is also mad about transportation of any kind. He doesn't really talk very much still but surprised us by giving all the names of the various different vehicles in his 'You Choose' book. And he loves diggers and tractors. Mind you, he's also fond of his pink dolly pushchair donated to him by his cousin. He sometimes pushes his doll or teddy around in it but then other times he puts his footballs and cars in it and pushes them. He even went through a phase of giving his footballs kisses and cuddles. Sort of boy/girl stereotypes getting mixed up there... His main love though are matchbox or hot wheels cars - the really little ones. He likes to line them up or arrange them in car park formations.

He is being quite tantrum-y at the moment and we are struggling with his routine a bit. We are crap at enforcing any kind of routine at all but I know its crucial to get something sorted out before the baby is born. i feel daunted...


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## evelet

Just thought I'd update on the Jude routine situation...

For the last 5 nights he has had a bath and been in his own bed asleep by 9pm. That may sound really late to some parents but considering we struggled to get him in his own bed at all let alone by 9pm we are v pleased! I have been working really late every night so I think the exhaustion Ros had having been on her own with him all day and then most of the evening forced her into trying a routine. She did it for 2 nights and I've now done it a few times too. He is definitely less tired in the daytime.

He's also started talking LOADS. He sometimes just repeats absolutely everything we say. On Saturday we were looking at a book and counting pictures of things. I said "one , two" and he just pointed at the next two pics and said "three four!" We were a bit flabbergasted and thought he'd learned to count all of a sudden but he soon went back to counting "two two two two Four!" as he had before so I think he was just copying me..

Having stopped worrying about routines and talking I'm now back to obsessing about schools. The local catholic school is excellent (and in fact Ros went there) but I don't know what's best. There are no steiner schools round here and I am not keen on home educating him.


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## Mable

Hi Eve,
Glad to hear the routine is working for you all. And now you have the old school dilemna. Am looking into Home Ed myself, as you will have seen. I know it's not for everyone (and in our household, I am the only one who is keen). For so many reasons, I would not consider a catholic school, and am going away from school altogether until secondary level. The whole thing of having to move into a notoriously expensive area for a nice middle class school just feels so oppressive, and we just can't afford it with the little that we want to work. Have you looked into home ed - I am very impressed with it, so far.

Monty is falling alot - taking lots of knocks to the head, which is worrying us. He is so keen to explore, but how many knocks can he take before his brains are damaged?


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## starrysky

Hi Mable

I have an idea - move to Snodland! It's not middle class but I hear the primary school is good!! Not very multi-cultural in the broadest sense of the word though. 

Adam is also at the school of hard Knocks. That Mr Bump cold gel pad that I didnt think we would use until he was at least ten has been out more than I care to think. Not that he `is falling yet but he is rolling and sometimes does it a bit too energetically. He is crawling too now, changing everyday!!

Eve - glad the routine is working out.

Adam is loving nursery - a funny story though to share with you - when I picked him up today and put him in his buggy he immediately pulled both his socks off, I said to the person who was there that he was always pulling his socks off. She said "Oh, I know and he pulls the other babies socks off too"  (odd behaviour!!!?)

Heather


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## bagpuss1

Heather- that is so funny that Adam is stealing other peoples socks, your piccie of him is so great, he is a real cutie!

Eve- So glad that Jude is getting the hang of routine. In my opinion, you have to find a routine that suits you and not the rest of society. I know you said that he is going to bed at 9 but if that is what Jude wants and you are okay with it, then thats fine. We all have different sleep personalities some of us are owls and some are larks. Who are we to try and change that!

A funny story too, Edie has taken to stripping just after she has gone to bed! havent quite decided what tactics to use for this yet. My opinion is that we should just leave her to get on with it. Only problem is that it involves her nappy too. She generally runs up and down her cot shouting WEE WEE WEE!

Last night she seemed to go straight to sleep but when we went in to check on her three hours later, she was face down in her bed fast asleep completely butt naked with her little tusch in the air! Luckily she had done a big poo just before she had gone to bed otherwise it would have been a complete mess!

We seem to be getting closer to potty training, she has started to tell us when she is about to do a poo 
and although she had been nappy-less last night for 3 hours she had not peed (luckily enough!) Have to wait until we move back home to start the process- not really sure where to start but like everything else I am sure that Edie will show us how ahe wants to do things!


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## starrysky

Hi Bagpuss

You made me laugh about Edie Mae's bedtime dis-robing habits.  It is so funny that they really do set the pace, I'm learning that.

My big problem at the moment is getting Adam to stay reasonably still for nappy changes, actually he's always been a wriggler. Imagine though that Jo saw the nursery staff changing him and he lay there contendedly. And it wasn't a one off either, apparently he never wriggles with them! What's that about!!

H


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## bagpuss1

I know what you mean totally! 

Edie seems to wait until her nappy is undone and then somehow manages to wriggle out of it- poo flying everywhere, me chasing her around begging her not to sit down (which inevitably she does do!) usually on something white or cream- it is disgusting really but I have tried every way to tie her down. I sit and watch Helens mum change her and she is good as gold and stays perfectly still! 

Just another way for them to play us up I suspect! I try to be firm with her but I suspect she really thinks I am playing a game with her!


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## evelet

god there are SO many examples I can think of Jude messing about with us but behaving like a cherub with other people (Nannie, nursery, friends, aunts etc).

About the school thing - homeschooling bothers me mainly because its not REAL LIFE. I want Jude to have shared cultural experiences as well as an education. I was not fond of school atl all (whereas Ros loved school) but sort of feel that it was just part of life. I don't doubt that between us Ros and I could home educate Jude but living in a small northern town with hardly any other home schoolers where would he socialise?

I am very very very sad that we don't live near a steiner school though. I would definitely put Jude in one if I could. However, the local catholic school is really friendly and has a good reputation so its probably not worth woryying about it too much. I can think of a million reasons in theory not to send him to a catholic school but in practice it just makes sense.


----------



## nickidee

Just thought I'd butt in (if you'll excuse the pun ) and suggest a solution for the nappy change wriggle. Follow this link..
http://www.rabbitts.com/
Nicki


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## starrysky

Hi Nikki - thanks for that, they do look worth a shot. I have given up changing adam anywhere but on the ground now beacuse of his nappy changing wriggles. I did use a babychange in a cafe yesterday and it was a nightmare especially when he wee'd in the middle of it as well!! I have become  a world expert on putting a nappy on from the back and sides directions!! 

Eve - so glad to hear its not just us that have that feeling! We wnet to the paediatrician today about Adams reflux, he's hardly sick at all anymore we said. Of course followed by the sickest day that he's had for months. Anyway he was discharged, at last no more doctors!!

Adam went to waterbabies yesterday and did his first underwater swim, only for a few seconds. He came up as though nothing had happened. 

I am really excited as its Adam's welcome or naming cermony on Sunday, its lovely as a lot of people are coming. 

I am waitiing for Jo to get back so I can go round to the car park to see if I left my bag with all my cards and camera in it, got distracted when I was getting everything out by meeting someone I knew in the car park. Cant say I feel like going at this time, especially as I have just watchd silent witness and I feel a bit spooked. 

Final bit of news, we have booked a holiday, we are going to turkey on 1st october for two weeks, i ca't wait!! But I am a bit worried about the airport transfer as there's no way of using a car seat in the coach.

Bye for now!

Heather


----------



## Mable

And what a lovely, lovely naming ceremony it was too. Lovely Adam.


----------



## Mable

Anyone else got a very active toddler?!

I can't get over the amount of energy Monty has. He is on the go all day, so busy busy, and then collapses in a heap of rubbed eyes and cuddles at bedtime. At babygroups, he is just on the go the whole time, won't sit in the circle with the others, likes to run around the outside circling us all shouting 'Man' and 'More' in his little piping voice.

It's not food, he doesn't eat any sugar or additives and it's not TV, he doesn't watch it, it's pure inquisitive energy! We've started going to Tumbletots, which helps.


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## rosypie

Mable, that's Jude all over. He ALWAYS ends up running around the edge of the sitting circle when we're trying to sing songs at playgroup. He is always doing something. He is still going to bed at 9 and waking every 4 hours. He still gets up at 7.30 every morning. He still has only 30 mins to an hour nap in the afternoon...

<--- Exhausted (but in the nicest possible way of course )


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## evelet

Ahhh how Jude likes to prove us right. He is now rampaging around the landing after a nice restful sleep. We will have to BORE him to sleep by completely ignoring him...

Jude doesn't really eat additives although he occasionally has sugar in cakes that Ros makes or in cafes. It doesn't seem to affect him too much. He does watch TV sometimes but not very often. He just IS active. We try to make sure he does lots and lots of physical activity every day (running about, playing outside, going to the park and for walks, cheeky chimps (its an indoor playground-y place), swimming etc) which definitely helps. He was much tired-er when he went to nursery so I suppose they'll calm down when they go to school!


----------



## bagpuss1

Hi Guys,

Edie is exactly the same. Remember her at Ginas? we couldnt get her to sit down at all! She is still the same now. 

Much the same as Jude and Monty, She does not have sugar and is barely still long enough to watch the tele! I just think it is their ages and that they will eventually settle down. 

Edie loves long walks, playing in the garden etc and that does help somewhat but she is still on the go constantly. You just get used to it and learn how to sit down in the middle of a room and let them whirl around like tasmanian devils until they eventually give in!

Kerry and Edie


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## rosypie

Jude is talking all the time now. From a few words to talking and making sense, just incredible. He tells me things that have happened and things he wants to show me (bike down = bike upside down, car bang = he banged his car on the wall, I out = get me out the bath!!!). He STILL goes on about my sister Sam and how she gave him an ice pop, "hhhhhham, pie-pop", like he hasn't had a thousand from me! Her ones are obviously nicer... it's bliss, I want this stage to last forever.


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## blueytoo

Rosypie/evelet - can I tentatively say that children that are up in the night at Jude's kind of age are often overtired because they haven't had enough sleep. I know it sounds crazy but there is a well proven theory that goes "the more they sleep, the more they sleep" At this age most children still nap during the day once or twice for a total of at least 2 hours and when they don't they actually get more active. I've found it be true of every child I've looked after (was a nanny for many years and manager of day nursery too) and of my own.


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## Damelottie

rosypie said:


> Jude is talking all the time now. From a few words to talking and making sense, just incredible. He tells me things that have happened and things he wants to show me (bike down = bike upside down, car bang = he banged his car on the wall, I out = get me out the bath!!!). He STILL goes on about my sister Sam and how she gave him an ice pop, "hhhhhham, pie-pop", like he hasn't had a thousand from me! Her ones are obviously nicer... it's bliss, I want this stage to last forever.


Ahhh - I adored that stage with my nieces. I took them out for dinner the other night - they're 10 and 13 now - and we started talking about all the funny things they said when they were just starting. You should keep a book of them


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## rosypie

I know, I know, I should be keeping a book. I did start a book when he was born with all the key dates and stuff in but have been crap about it since he started crawling. I've noted all the major milestones since  then in my mobile phone but just haven't got around to transferring them to the pages... I've been trying to take as much video footage of his babbling as I can remember to do though. I know before long he'll be talking proper and I'll not be able to remember exactly what he was like during this transition phase.

Talking about baby books, I did have a lovely book which I planned to fill in after he was born, as we went along. Now, I cannot believe he is 2 already and I haven't even started - I have the information of course, just finding the time to assemble it all, find the photos, the footprints, the lock of hair (that I KNOW I have 'somewhere'). I have no idea where my mother found the time to do mine, and to do the beautiful family album that me and my sibs have looked at countless times...

has anyone else found themselves years down the line with a set of blank baby pages? or has everyone else been super-organised?


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## Damelottie

It was fun reminding the girls of the funny things they've said! One of my favs was a conversation with Ella - aged about 6 - just as the pizza arrived in Pizza Hut:

Ella - Auntie Emma, I need the toilet
AE - Can you wait for a bit?
Ella - Not really because it's a poo, and once when I waited it went back up and didn't come back again for  - shrugs here - about 3 days!!

She was crying with laughter when I reminded her


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## evelet

it is funny what they say. I keep meaning to write things down but it never seems to happen.

Jude is going through a phase of whispering random words to himself eg "car boat" and "teddy teddy"


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## starrysky

Hi everyone

Second attempt at a holiday with Adam on Tuesday, Crete, cant wait!

We have a baby record book, that's fairly up to date due to Jo's diligence, but photos.....well. that's another story!! there are thousands of them lying around.

We're having a sad time at the moment as my friend and work colleagues daughter is pregnant and has had very bad news from scans, her baby has a major heart problem and it is looking like the baby does have Downs Syndrome or perhaps even Edwards or Petau's. I know so much about thsis having had such high risk results and I have given my friend a lot of information. But I had really hoped I would be giving her the information just in case, the more time goes on the more difficult things are looking. She met Adam last week and my friend already knew the risks Adam had, somehow that makes me feel sadder that they have seen he is okay despite the results and their situation is the reverse. 

Dont know if you are reading this Gina but I printd out lots of the downs syndrome information you pointed us towards and gave them information on ARC. 

We were very lucky. 

Heather

PS. Loved the pizza hut story.


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## Mable

Heather,
Sorry to hear about your friend's daughter's baby. You are so right, you and we are all so so very lucky to have our miracle babies, crawling, running, shouting 'man' as though deprived of male company. You must feel so wierd, having been through all your tests and results and having Adam now without any of their predicted problems.

Have a great break away.

Hi to all - we have just spent the weekend in Cambridge with friends. One of them is a man, which drove Monty into a man naming frenzy, shouting MAN MAN every time he saw him and especially calling out for him in the middle of the night, and early morning. Feels kind of wierd, he is really attached to men of the grandad generation, calls them Mama and pushes us away when we try to relieve them of the clinging. Oh well, developmental...


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## evelet

@ Mable - Jude is the same. Ros always points out that a lot of small children love men perhaps because of the lack of women in childcare too? Kids who spend a lot of time in nursery/childminders are unlikely to see many men during their day I suppose.

Anyway, we do try and make sure Jude spends time with male friends/older boy children. Our brother in law Nathan is very connected with Jude as is 'Bumper' (my Dad a.k.a.Grandpa). What else can you do? Anyway I still think our little miracles are better off with us! My nephew Jimi is a total star and he has almost always lived in 100% female households.


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## Tonia2

*Heather! *

Are you still around or on holiday yet? I've tried to send you a PM twice in the last few weeks and you're so darn popular that your inbox is full!!  Hope your holiday is just the best. Sorry to hear about your friends baby. What a difficult thing...     to her & her family/friends.

love Tonia


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## Mable

Been up since 2am all night with Monty wailing. Would only sleep on me and then only managed around an hour, and me nothing, trying to get back to sleep. Now got a crook in my neck and feel dizzy with lack of sleep. Takes me back. Shame I've got a day's work ahead.

Think it must be separation anxiety.


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## Damelottie

Oh Mable.

Hope you're both OK today and you have a better night tonight

Emma


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## Mable

Ta Emma,
Now that the day is progressing, feels slightly less daunting. Amazing how productive one can be on so little sleep.

It was kind of cute having him sleep on me though. Took me back to the baby stage, although he is long, heavy and sweaty now, with strong leg kicks. Also has words so was demanding 'MORE' songs, hair stroking, bottom pats, and randomly sitting up saying things like 'chop chop' and pointing at me and saying 'Mama'. 

Early night tonight...


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## Damelottie

Sleep well tongiht...

Soooooooooooooooo sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet though


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## evelet

I am really starting to fret about leaving Jude with someone when Ros goes into labour. He is with either one of us 24/7 these days and is incredibly attached. He is just not used to being left! Especially overnight! Also I just don't know where we are going to leave him. Ros's mum is fantastic with him but has a lot of health problems and is very tired often so I don't really want to leave him with her at night as well as all day. Ros's older sister is also great with him but she works in the daytime. We could leave him with his Nannie during the day and  his Aunt at night but the two of them do NOT get on so god only knows how we are going to negotiate it. I'm also now getting very very anxious about the birth but that's a whole other set of issues (I think I'll post them on the pregnancy thread!)


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## Mable

Could your mum come up and stay in your house looking after Jude in his own home? That's what my mum did when my brother had his 2nd. She is retired, so she's available. Is your mum free? You really need to be free to be there totally for Ros and the new baby don't you, not trying to split yourself in 2 trying to look after Jude and his carers too.

Isn't all this much more tricky with the 2nd child. Reminds me of trying to do IVF and organise childcare all of a sudden, unpredictably.

Can't help much re the birth except to say that after what you went through before, it must be very worrying. Hope you can find some reassurance about the birth as the time comes nearer.

SOS - Monty is banging his head against the cot before going to sleep. He rocks backwards and forwards on hands and knees, banging his forehead on the cot head. Has a big bruise already. Short of going in and telling him off, which worked yesterday, anyone else experienced this and got any tips? Needless to say, he's not happy being left to go to sleep, he usually is but this coincides with a clingy phase. Perhaps we'll just have to pad up the cot and wait for this phase to pass...


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## bagpuss1

Hi Mable,

Edie has not done this, but she has been through similar events  whilst she is going to sleep, things like humming etc. I think its just a rythmical kind of thing that they use to comfort and get to sleep. 

It may just be another of their phases and I shouldnt think he will be doing too much damage although I understand that bruises are not nice.

Hopefully it will stop soon,

Kerry


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## evelet

I saw my mum at the weekend and she made me feel better about everything as usual so i've decided not to worry about who will look after Jude when Ros is in labour. He loves going to his Nannie's house and we are just going to tell her that she has to make sure she is absolutely able to cope with looking after Jude and not feeling ill (she has a heart condition which makes her very tired). If she gets tired, Ros's sister will step in. My older sister is going to come as soon as Ros goes into labour too so she'll be around too. We also have a close friend who would be more than able to look after him in reserve. Its all bound up in a lot of anxiety for me because of what happened last time I think so I'm just going to relax. I KNOW its not going to go on for days and days because they'll only let Ros have a trial labour before changing to a section anyway so its probably not worth worrying about. I just can't believe we are going to have another baby in the house. I will never forget the feeling of having this little alien with when we first brought him home..

We went out for a posh dinner to celebrate our 10 year anniversary (it was on 1 Oct) this weekend. It was SO lovely to be out doing proper grown up things. The restaurant was beautifully QUIET. We are going to go out more often starting with tomorrow night


----------



## bagpuss1

Hi guys,

I have a query, When you are going to clinic appointments, do you guys take your bubs with you?

We dont really want to tell anyone that we are gonna be trying again so it makes it a bit hard to get Edie looked after when we need it.

Not planning on taking her with us for insems but what about for scans and initial appointment with new consultant. 

Dont want to be insensitive to other couples who will be there but also have to look after Edies needs too.

Kerry


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## Mable

We've done a mixture of both, out of necessity. Funnily enough, I've seen lots of kids at our unit since I started taking M with us. It is generally welcomed and I think it gives people hope that the treatment can work. When M was younger he was able to sit in the pram and I've had scans and even an insemination with him sitting in the pram beside me. However, for IVF it's a different kettle of fish and I've generally had him looked after. He's now too active and inquisitive to sit still so it's not really possible to bring him along now.

Good luck with your trying - hope you're really lucky first time. Do join us on the TTC thread and let us know where you're at if you like.


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## rosypie

Yeah, I'd agree with Mable. The other people didn't seem to mind the occasional kid in the waiting room. We did a mix too, but Jude was too old for pram confinement so generally we took him to consultations etc. but anything involving a needle or a scan we either had him looked after or Eve stayed in the waiting room with him. Children weren't allowed in the hospital bit for any of the IVF procedures anyway.

Luckily I was still working on and off so Jude was in nursery some of the time and we tried to coincide appts with those times.


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## starrysky

Hi Bagpuss

Jo and I had the same question and we rang the clinic and asked someone we know well there what the view was. 

She said "oh yes definitely bring him in", there was no hesitation.

Mable - Adam headbangs too, we just lift him away from whatever he is banging his head on and he stops. It can be the floor or the cot or the bed or his pram, had a long chat with people at work today about the hardiness  of babies skulls, as tested out on greek hard floors on many occasions!

Heather


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## Mable

Thanks for that Heather, did you have good holidays?
Re headbanging - we've started asking him seriously not to do it, and he stops. It seems to be linked to a mini tantrum-like protest that he has started to do more and more often. Got stuck in the park today with him refusing to put his pink flowery wellies on, wouldn't walk, wouldn't get on his bike. I looked like one of those classic harrassed parents, carrying bucking boy, pink wellies and bike out of the park at full speed!

Anyone got any tantrum tips/tales to make me feel better? I hate that word, tantrum, using it for want of a better word. It's a difficult time when they go from being utterly charming and compliant to suddenly saying NO all over the place, deliberately testing boundaries with a mischievous glint in the eye! For the record, I tried distraction, offering bribes, but it was no no no all the way.


----------



## rosypie

Jude now likes to push smaller children over and hit. I have tried every method to get him to stop but he seems to enjoy any kind of telling off I give him... it's getting embarrassing. My general rule is that I'll intervene if the child is smaller than Jude but leave him to learn his lesson if the child is bigger. But now I feel like I need to watch him every second as he seizes every window of opportunity to do some shoving. It felt like the world literally stopped this morning at playgroup. I didn't see (honest guv') but he had pushed over a girl and she banged her head and was screaming and everyone stopped and looked round and waited for what I was going to do...omg


----------



## Tonia2

Hey Heather! I've tried to reply to your PM again and your inbox is still full.... or full again! You are SOOOO popular!!!       
Hope you had a fantastic holiday!   
Love Tonia


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## Mable

Oh dear Ros, it just gets worse then!

I have a colleague with a now 3 year old who went through the pushing and hitting phase with her son, he wopped Monty when he was just a little baby. She was at a loss at what to do about it, gave him a massive telling off at the time which I then recall she regretted and wished she had just distracted him. He is now 3 and so well behaved and gorgeous, so I take comfort in that. We also have that thing where we tell him off and he laughs and does it even more. Hard to know what to do.

It's so easy to feel like a crap mother isn't it. Some days I just feel glad I've got through the day without him coming to any major harm, that I've got some food down him (whatever it is) and he has survived the day. Other days it all goes so well.
x


----------



## crazycat

Hi all,
Posting as 'myself' agian instead of using Heather's login.
Yes we had a lovely holiday thanks, talk about back to reality with a bump though: I am just in the middle of complaining about unfair treatment and possible sex discrimination for a couple of interviews I had recently.  Stressful and very annoying.  
We have also both been shocked and very upset about baby Alex and our friends daughter who is pregnant and in a dreadful situation with the worst possible news about her baby and possibly any future pregnancies too.  She is only 20years old and it is such a nightmare.  All this loss and, possible loss has left me thinking alot about "Skippy", the twin that didn't develop and also about my lovely Gran who died recently.  Feeling very tearful.
Tonia, you made me laugh about Heather's in box: don't believe evrerything you see! I will let you in on a little secret, she hardly ever gets round to deleting things and even if she did, she would probably end up keeping them "just in case" anyhow!
Head banging/tantrum/bad behaviour ideas:  I have sen other parents using 'time-out' techniques quite sucessfully from about age two but I think you would need to be commited to this and very consistent for it to work.  Something that seems to work a bit even with Adam is to withdraw any attention/talking/cuddles/eye contact when he is doing something we don't like but it is very hard to do, mostly he is so sweet my resolve melts!  How about star charts/reward systems for good behaviour?  We have quite a good book which talks about various aspects of what it calls "positive parenting"  I think it has some quite good ideas & info.  It is called "Why Do Kids Do That?" & is by Dr R C Woolfson.
Oh well, off to make another complaint now!
Jo


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## evelet

we use time-outs (he sits on The Step). We both read a book called something like 1-2-3 Magic. Its really good - very useful although an american book and therefore a bit annoyingly written in the way that american self help books are.

am now reading Sibling Rivalry in preparation.....


----------



## Mable

E has blown up our boiler. She poured water over it, whilst watering a plant. We've had no heating or hot water for a week now. Feels really miserable. Have been staying over with my parents over the weekend for some warmth but it's really driving me mad. Feel like I've lost my entire life. Boiler man is due any second, if he can't fix it, I feel I will explode. We've all got colds and Monty's all clingy.

Cheer me up, somebody..!


----------



## TerriWW

Just read this thread - and yes Angus is 2 years 5 months and he can be the most gorgeous affectionate perfect child one minute and an awkward argumentative one the next! On the whole I can talk him round and get him to do what I want by preempting what he's going to do and distracting him before he starts and we manage most days with nothing more than a few 'protests'. But occassionally I 'lose' him and he throws a wobbler! If this is at home I totally ignore him until he gets over it and comes for a hug. It has only happened out in public about 3 times - one of them yesterday in the middle of sainsburys! A large packed sainsburys and I had to carry him out thrashing around past the longest queues at the tills and lots of smiling/laughing people! It was the classic supermarket scene!  

The funniest bit is that an elderly man who worked there came up and asked if we needed any help. I said it's ok there are two of us (me and ju), I'll take angus out whilst ju queues and pays. And the man the said'..ok but I am first aid qualified if you need help'!!! I burst out laughing and this man acutally thought angus was hurt as he was screaming so loud! 

As soon as he calmed down, he said 'Sorry for shouting mummy' and kissed me better - and he always does says sorry himself when he's done something he shouldn't so I figure that he knows what he's doing wrong, he says sorry so it's just time and development and patience on our part whilst he grows through this stage.

My mum says I never had a tantrum - so I say that donor has a lot to answer for


----------



## Tonia2

Awww *Mable!* That's crap!! You poor things! I hope that boiler man turned up today and fixed it! I've had such appalling bad luck with tradesmen lately - I no longer believe a word they say about _anything, _ including when they say they'll come, whether they can or can't fix it, and how much it will cost....I've painfully learnt they generally can't be trusted.... BUT I hope that your boiler man is the most wonderful exception! I couldn't imagine being without hot water/heating. Esp given it's winter over there!  
I'm trying to think of something to cheer you up. 
Can't think of anything. Bother!

 
Love Tonia

PS when do you start down-regging?


----------



## Mable

Aw thanks Tonia. The thought of downregging to cheer me up. Over Christmas I recon! Lovely.

Just wanted to wish Adam a very happy birthday for tomorrow.


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## crazycat

Hi all,

Mable - thanks for your birthday wishes for Adam, I can hardly believe he really is one!  Bad luck with the boiler - hopefully you might have fixed it by now.  What about this British Gas fixed price repair scheme?  Something to cheer you up....Hmmmm let me see.......I know, this time next year you might have another baby?  Christmas is coming?  It is very eco-friendly not to use central heating & hot water!  Is this working at all?  Probably not!

Terriww - Your supermarket story fills me with dread, I really hate the idea of everyone looking & worse still thinking I should be able to control my child.  I can imagine Adam will be full of that sort of behaviour as he is very strong willed now!

At the moment Adam has become very clingy and cries evry time he is left in a room alone or with anyone except me and Heather.  Makes me feel guilty about leaving him but it really is the only way I can manage to get anything done!  Anyhow, I have got a four day job lined up now (will probably start next year) & I keep thinking if I let him spend too much time with me whilst I'm off then going to work will be even harder for us both, at least this way I can strike a bit of a balance.  I guess he will grow out of it, soon enough he probably won't want to be seen with me at all!
Also a bit of a blow for my own TTC, it is going to have to go on hold until I have been in a permenant job for 6 months (I thought it was less - bother!) so I can get materipay/leave.  I had been hoping to aim towards Jan but I will be lucky if I can start in the summer now.  Meanwhile I am 37 in Jan so I'd really prefer if I could just get on with it.  Still there is nothing I can do, will just have to wait.

Love to all,
Jo


----------



## Mable

Hi Jo,
Thanks for trying to cheer me up. It made me laugh. Tell me about your plans for Adam's first birthday! It's such a milestone isn't it.

I remember Monty being clingy around that age. He's clingy now, in fact whenever he does something more independent, like starting to crawl, walk, talk, he clings back for security, as though he's going to fly away and loose us altogether. Is Adam about to crawl? Monty started around his first birthday, it really changed his personality. He does cling to Siobhan as a first choice, which is annoying, but he's mainly after milka and clawing away at mine does nothing for either of us.

Sorry to hear about your TTC delays, but great about the new job. It's all such a difficult juggle, isn't it. Thing is, although age is an issue, I think once you past 35 whatever year it is doesn't matter, until you hit 40. I keep reassuring myself with that anyway. I'm doing the opposite to you, I'm doing the TTC whilst staying in a job I dislike and am using the fact that I'm TTC as a reason not to move jobs or take a risk (which I've recently been offered but turned down because I might be preggers in February, pigs might fly).

Boiler update - another part is being ordered, luckily it's not too cold at the moment and I bought a little fan heater. Washing out of a saucepan this morning took me back to my camping days.

Happy parenting, everyone
Mable
ps are you sure about the maternity pay thing? I was looking into it recently and you had to have worked for the place for 6 months before the 15th week before the due date, which kind of means as long as you have a permanent contract when you get pregnant then you're ok. If this makes any sense. I feel awkward starting a new job and then having to go off on mat leave, but that's another story.


----------



## crazycat

Plans for Adam's 1st birthday -
He had a little tea party at our friends over the weekend & their presents.  He also had a little party at Nursery today.  On the day, we are going to watch CBeebies with him, we have sent in a card & are rather hopeful they will broadcast his one because of the two Mum thing & wanting to appear PC!  Then he has some more presents and some cake for us all, with candle of course.  Then we are of to Yo Sushi for lunch, Adam likes to watch the food going round & is always very pleased to go in a high chair that fioxes on the table.  Who knows why, but it keeps him happy, plus we both love sushi so it is a treat for us all.  Not sure about the rest yet, depends on the weather really but it would be nice to go to the park or something.
Then on Thurs night, or Friday, we are off to Grandma's, My Mum in Manchester, where there are sure to be yet more presents (we need a bigger house!) and he is having yet another party there on Sunday.
By the way, Adam has to be a Christmas Pudding in the nursery's Christmas 'play', any ideas on where to get an outfit, I am hopeless at sewing so no-one suggest making it!
I am certain about the leave/pay for maternity, I thought it was what you said too but that is definately not what my contract says. Oh well, more time to get in shape then.
Sorry to hear still no boiler - I can thoroughly recommend M & S thermal underwear, when we went to Prague a couple of years ago in Jan I think they were my saviour & I even had thermal knickers.  Highly unattractive but v cosy.
Love Jo


----------



## Mable

Ta Jo,
That's really warmed me up. Hope you have a really lovely week celebrating Adam's first birthday and much love to you and Heather.

Sorry the mat leave thing is how it is. As you say, more time to get in shape and to be honest, ttc is a complete nightmare so put it off and thoroughly enjoy Adam for as long as you can!

Happy birthday Adam
Mable


----------



## rosypie

That mat pay thing is rubbish. It's such a hassle you could do without. I did like Mable and didn't move jobs when TTC first time round so that I could benefit from the company mat pay which was good, but it did mean I stayed in a job I'd been meaning to move out of for ages. This time round TTC I'm not working but should be entitled to mat allowance as long as I find 4 weeks work between now and Feb when baby arrives (easier said than done especially 6 months pg but I'm not willing to give up on it yet!!!)

Jude has been clingy on and off forever it seems and for all kinds of different reasons. I do remember him getting clingy first time in the run-up to his 1st birthday. Since then it's been on/off; he got clingy again around last xmas making the last few drop offs at nursery before xmas hols awful (when he was around 16 months), then he recovered over xmas only to get clingy again in April/May (around 21 months). This also coincided with me giving up work and him spending all day with me and, at that point, not yet venturing out into toddler-land. I think he just got used to it being the 2 of us and I was just enjoying being with him after working for months... anyway, it's all pretty normal I reckon. Currently he's unclingy (yay!)

Have a lovely day!


----------



## Mable

Boilers fixed!! What happiness.


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## rosypie

Yay for the fixed boiler!

We're having new windows and doors starting next Thursday. It's been baltic in places with these ancient and drafty things, even with the heating on. Can't wait...


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## nickidee

*crazycat* - always one for mission impossible, I had a look round for a christmas pudding outfit and mothercare do one which is pretty fab but costs £10. The link is: http://www.mothercare.com/gp/product/B000XFXILA
Hope this helps..
Nicki


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## crazycat

Hi all,
Thanks for finding that Christmas Pud outfit, I have got one & it is really, seriously cute!  Also v. pleased as when I took it to the desk they gave it to me half price becauseI bought a toy (for Christmas) at the same time & it was buy one get another half price.  I really didnt think clothes would count, but who am I to argue?
We are all struggling a bit, house is in chaos & Im trying to get on top of it but drowning in stuff!  Heather has come down with a sort of gastric flu, Adam won't sleep past about 4am (or earlier!) most nights unless he comes into our bed. I have a problem with balance & feeling dizzy all the time. Even Molly (the cat) has been throwing up!

Arggghhhhh!


Hooray though for fixed boilers, if ours goes now I think I will just lie on the floor and scream!

Love to all
Jo


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## evelet

crazycat you poor thing! dizziness - i had that once and it turned out to be an ear infection. i had been feeling dizzy for ages and had thought it was to do with my glasses prescription being wrong (it was very visual). anyway once i had a course of antibiotics i was fine. maybe its worth going to doctor?

Jude has been sleeping in our bed from 4 or 5am onwards since he was about 12 months old. Before that we often co-slept so it has always seemed pretty natural to us. The fact is that we need our sleep and as he keeps pretty still while he sleeps it seems to be the best solution. My mum is worried about how we are going to cope with the new baby (possibly in the bed all night) and Jude wanting to get in too. Our answer is - we are getting  a bigger bed. we find it works fine this way so we are jsu going to carry on. the only change we might make is that I might swap sides with rosypie so that he has to climb over me to get to the middle. That way she can put the new baby the other side of her and he won't squash her/him accidentally. we'll keep you posted as to whether it works though...

Hope everyone feels better soon!


----------



## Mable

Hi all,
Jo, sorry to hear about your illnesses and home chaos. It doesn't take much to throw the balance right off, does it. We're still recovering from our boiler breakdown and colds. Get well soon, your family.

Eve - your big bed solution sounds great. We can't do that co-sleeping business, Monty just won't settle with us, but he does want to sleep on our fronts at night, with us sitting up and him snoozing away, giving little kisses and smiles as he dozes. Very exhausting for us - we only give in and do this when he is ill. He was after this last night at 2am, but we did some 2 mum management - 1 story, cup of goats milk, 1 song then straight back to his cot and mummies back to their cots in their own room. He accepts this. 2nd time round I've always fancied the idea of getting one of those cots that attach to the bed.

Have had my book delivery and have 'Raising boys without men', 'Unconditional parenting' and another Alfie Kohn book about not using rewards and sticker charts during parenting. Now got to find the time to read them... will report back.
Happy parenting!
Mable


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## snagglepat

We're already seriously considering the big bed solution. I had a client once who had had a base custom made - it stretched right across the (reasonably large) bedroom and had two double mattresses on it side by side. The whole family (2 parents and 2 kids) slept in it very happily and it's been an ideal of mine ever since. At the moment we have one of those cots you mentioned Mable, that sits next to the bed with one side down and is essentially a bed extension, but at the moment Ember spend very little time in it. So far she only really sleeps when in contact with another person, so she generally ends up spending most of the night lying next to me in very close proximity to my boob. That way she can eat and sleep as she wishes and I get to get a good 4-5 hours of relatively undisturbed sleep. At 6 weeks I'm quite pleased with this. I have no idea as yet how we're going to get more of a 'sleeping independently routine' established, but we'll worry about that when we feel we need to. Although she is in our bed, the cot does mean she can lie safely right at the edge of it with no fear of her rolling off so Rae and I get most of the big bed to ourselves.

*Mable*, I look forward to hearing how you find those books. I've bee meaning to get my mits on a copy of unconditional parenting for a while but haven't as yet.

*Jo*, I really hope you're feeling better soon. The Christmas pud outfit sounds seriously cute You must post a pic. 

Gina. x


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## starrysky

Hi everyone

I havent posted for a while but wanted to say Gina how much I enjoyed seeing your birth photos, I hope if Jo is successful with her tx we can do something similar. And Ember is lovely, she is so like you. 

It's almost a year since I got out of hospital with Adam, think I'll have some cava on sunday to celebrate, it was all christmasey when we got home, cant believe more than a year has passed. 

Adam sleeps in his cot from about 7pm onwards but tends to wake up at 5am and then co-sleeps with us until he wakes up. He sleeps again immediately which is nice. 

Any news from Alison recently - if you are reading this Alison, thinking of you all, hope all is well. 

It would be nice to think about a get together next year, anyone up for it? 

Love to evryone

Heather


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## rosypie

Eve and I are always up for get togethers. Obviously, Feb will be tricky   but otherwise let us know and we'll do our best.

Gina, we did that for a few months with Jude. He was barely in his cot. He slept between me and the edge of the bed (with a rolled blanket wedging him in) napping and feeding on and off all night. We (me and Eve) pretty much slept through most of it. He's not a perfect sleeper now but we're happy with the status quo. He hardly wakes us when he comes tottering through at whatever time of night he wakes... we definitely need the bigger bed though!!


----------



## lucky2010

Hi there everyone! one hand typing while feeding!!our sleeping arrangements sound similar to yours Gina and Ros... Alex sometimes goes down in his cot in our room at about 8pm (this is hit and miss) then wakes for a feed at about 11pm then goes back in his cot after the feed.... when he wakes next he will rarely go back in his crib and usually spends the rest of the night in the bed with us, on my side with a pillow jammed between the crib and the bed so he doesn't fall on the floor!!!

We are having some trouble trying to get Alex to take a bottle and wondered if anyone has eny suggestions? I am demand breast feeding with no trouble at all but need to get Alex to be happy with a bottle by the time I go back to work as he will have to be given expressed milk by the childminder. We have sucessfully managed to get him to take 2 bottles but he now refuses and screams like we are torturing him... it's a nightmare!!

Hope everyone is well.

Love Rach xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

So nice to hear about your babies progress.  My friend had twins and had a king sized bed and she and the twins slept in it and she breastfed them for over a year (sometimes she'd let her husband in the bed otherwise he was banished to a single bed in the corner) they never had a cot they went from the family bed to matresses on the floor and then beds when bigger.

L x


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## rosypie

@rach - I think the trick with the bottle is that once they start you have to keep it up regularly or they forget and refuse. I think we had Jude taking an occasional bottle by 6 weeks but then I couldn't be bothered to express so he didn't have a bottle for a while. After that he refused and refused right the way up to 11 months. During that time he went to nursery from 8 months (3 days per week, 8am-6pm) so on those days he had no milk at all for 10 hours while my boobs gradually filled up at work (when are you planning to return to work?) Alex is still very brand new and only had 2 bottles so far, so I'm sure you haven't missed the bottle boat yet. You're probably doing this already but the only thing I can really suggest is that non-milk mummy does the bottle and milk mummy perhaps leaves the room altogether. Then, when you succeed, make sure he has a bottle once every day or so to keep him up to speed.

Good luck


----------



## magsandemma

Hi all

Well so nice that we can now come and join you all on this thread, hooray!!

Interesting regarding the feeding, we started off really well on the demand breast feeding for a week, then all fell to peices in the early hours on sunday morning when we all just ended up sitting on the bed at 5am in tears, as Louise wouldnt take to the breast, I was exhausted and stressed, and emma bless her was stresed as she couldnt help with the feeding, at which point we ended up expressing as louise was too distressed.  Anyhow since then we have just expressed and bottlefeed, much to my midwifes dislike,   , but am not managing to get much milk, probably only getting about 200mls a day, having lots of skin to skin to try to help increase milk and expressing regularly but the only times I seem to get much is late eve and early morning, so at the mo louise is having breastmilk ever other feed and having sma in between, however we are all so much less stressed over the last few days and louise actually sleeping well between feeds, she tends to be feeding every 2-3hrs and taking 50-60mls a time, I guess this is about normal for her age though and she is still only ickle bless her!!    Well we have the midwife coming to see us again today and going to weigh her for us as she hasnt been weighed since birth, so that will be nice to see what is hapening.  I still cant believe she is here at times, just sit here looking at her bless, I could spend all day doing that, we had a busy day yesturday with lots of visitors, which was nice as emma had to go back to work but so tiring!!

The co- sleeping sounds lovely but I am so scared of rolling over or squashing her, however when we have the early morning feeds we do end up having a little doze with louise on my chest or mummy emmas chest, which is nice.  Well must go sort out the washing, speak soon.

Oh we would be up for a meet, would be lovely to get to meet you all!

Maggie
xx


----------



## lucky2010

just out of interest *maggie*... what sort of breast pump are you using? My friend struggled getting much milk with her hand pump but used my Medela Swing and got 150mls from each breast. i get about this too so maybe worth looking in to.

we are leaving Alex with Julies mum on saturday with a bottle to see if he'll take it... I am scared to death that he'll cry the whole time we're away, but she'll only have to call us and we can be there in 2 mins.

off to a baby fair in hebden bridge tomorrow with my friend so looking forward to that 

best go and try to get some tea before alex wakes up x x


----------



## Mable

I have vague memories of Monty lapping milk from a cup thing in the early days. I used to bottle feed him expressed milk and warmed the teat and tried to keep the same position as with breastfeeding, ramming it into my skin so that it resembled it as much as possible. I agree with perseverence - if they don't take to it at the start, keep trying. This applies to everything! E had trouble with Monty bobbing on and off constantly in the early months, but with lots of perseverence and firm holding of his head at the breast, he got it and is still breastfeeding now at 20 months.

Does anyone else HATE what Christmas has become in this country? Am seriously considering not doing the whole father Christmas business with Monty - is that really mean and annoying? Hate the way it's all about what presents kids want and if they are good this old man will come down the chimney and give them loads of presents that they have asked for. What kind of crap myth is that. Anyone know of any alternative Christmas legends or ways to celebrate?


----------



## lucky2010

Mable, I hate christmas too, it's all about.... I'm glad not to have to 'do it' for Alex this year, Can't think of any alternatives but would be keen to know if you hear of any!! where have our avtars gone?!

I think the answer is perseverence with the bottle, it's just heart breaking to hear him screaming. Also it's a waste of up to 4 ozs of expressed milk which I am loathed to throw away!!! thanks for the tips guys x x


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## crazycat

Hi all,

We are all well at last!

Adam was an excellent (though tearful!) Christmas Pudding.

I'm one of those annoying types who acytually like Christmas - not the commercialism but the smell of a real tree, sparkly decorations, mulled wine, real fires, days off, making cards (if there's time), picking out nice gifts....o yes, I think I'm a true sucker!

With the feeding issue:  someone I know used to use nipple sheilds for breastfeeding & bottles seemed to not be so alien to her baby.

Maggie & Emma - Louise is just lovely, her picture is making me broody.

We are off for an underwater photo tomorrow, wish us luck - the last time I went under with Adam (he's been under loads but I usually am waiting for him at the surface so tomorrow is only my 2nd time) instinct just took over & I wound up grabbing his arm & pulling him towards me & then out of the water! Felt a fool, no one else did that!

Love to you all,

Jo


----------



## rosypie

I love all that stuff too @Jo. Christmas has gone mad here in recent years. The same has happened with halloween and easter too. The thing I REALLY hate though is 'Santa'. He was always Father Christmas when I was a child and he used to provide a modest stocking for which no requests were taken - an annual, a jigsaw, tangerine, nuts and always, ALWAYS a single pencil wrapped up with the paper twisted either end like an elongated cracker... 'Expensive' presents had nothing to do with him and we rarely got them anyway. One of the guys fitting my windows this week (they're in by the way and so sparkling, clean and new ) was telling me what he had got his children - his 2 year old is getting a TV and his 4 year old a Wiii. It is madness.

I will be making mince pies, I will be making a real holly wreath and Jude will be opening his 'no-choc' religious motif advent calendar everyday. I am spurning the neon side of christmas (although eve is DESPERATE for something spangly to display in our new front window - I just know she wants one of those nodding ropelight reindeers that Jude calls 'cows')... @Mable did you see that River Cottage christmas thing? He did a medieval banquet and all the decorations were authentic and he made a ten bird roast like a meaty russian doll!! I like the idea of pine cones and threaded popcorn on my tree this year... there's loads of opportunity to do something different, loads of scope to be creative and to concentrate on the less commercial side. Loads of crafty things to make and recipes to try out.

Perseverence is key plenty of times with childrearing @rach but also don't forget to relax too, babies pick up on all kinds of stuff


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## Mable

Ta Ros, you've inspired me!

I was thinking Rach about you preparing for going back to work - won't Alex be around 6 months when this happens? it's just that he'll be so much more robust at 6 months, he'll be eating food and possibly sitting up and missing the odd bottle won't matter so much as it does now. I know I'm always worrying about the next stage, in my case school, but I'm imagining him going to school as his babyish self now rather than at 5, all independent and robust.

Good luck for the underwater swimming Jo! Have finally given up on that, after Monty objecting to it for about a year! I finally listened to his very firm 'no, no' no' at my 'ready go' command thing.

Oh no, he's wailing, and I've got an hour to go of my 'lunch break'. Off I go..


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## evelet

Jude helped us decorate the tree tonight. He LOVED it. I will get Roz to post some pics.

I think the most obvious way to make Christmas into something more than the commercial stuff is to go to church. However not everyone is a church going type - its a pagan festival too in origin of course. But I think even just making it about FAMILY time makes it less of a present orgy and more of a togetherness thing.


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## magsandemma

Hi all

Just a quickie while lou is taking a nap nearly feed time again    , just wondered how you were all doing, and if you were all ready for xmas, I must admit I do love to have a real tree, its just the smell you get when you walk into the room especially first thing in the morning, its fab.  Well we are doing ok, louise now completely on formula as it was just too stressful for us all and my milk just seemed to disappear more each day when we were trying even with expressing 2-3hrly just wasnt getting much at all, but we are all happier now with feeding, however she is having a bit of trouble with her wind and is having trouble with a bit of colic at the mo, however that is not stopping her from putting on weight,    , she was weighed again yesturday and has put on 1lb now in 3wks, so is doing fab!!  However lou has decided that wake up time is between 1-4am which is fun at times, but am hoping this will pass and we are trying to get her into a routine now in the evenings with bathing and feeding before bed, we will see how it goes!!

Anyhow enough waffling from me, how is everyone else and their little ones doing?

Love 
Maggie
xx


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## Mable

Hi,
Nice to hear from you Mags. Sorry to hear about your disappearing milk and the 1-4am wake ups. Remember them well!

How's everyone else?

E spontaneously decided to stop breastfeeding at the weekend. Lasted a day, she got all engorged and sad. Monty didn't seem too bothered, she has restarted but is feeding less and trying to reduce to just 1 feed a day. We need her to stop really so that she can take over this IVF lark should it not work for me next try. They say you have to have stopped BF for 3 months before having the FSH levels checked, but research I've done shows that it doesn't affect FSH, but it does affect LH. Any 2nd timers got any experience of this? 

Monty says a new word every day, yesterday it was 'pink'. It's exciting to watch the language emerge. 

Heard yesterday that a close friend is pregnant, she is one of the last of our Monty circle of baby friends to be preggers with her 2nd and had always said she would only have 1. I thought she was a 'safe' person, in that she wouldn't be announcing her pregnancy any time soon. It hit us really hard. It's SO easy for these women to get pregnant, they can virtually pick the month they want their baby's birthday to be in. I hate the way I feel so bitter and envious and the way it hits me in the guts when I hear their news. 

That's where we're at at the moment. Avoiding newly pregnant women!
Happy Christmas and new year everyone,
Mable


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## starrysky

Hi everyone

Mable I havent had that feeling for a while (it is a horrible feeling), all I get is absolute excitement that someone is pregnant and a kind of pregnancy equivalent of wanderlust (broodiness?). But I expect that these old feelings may come back when jo starts trying seriously. 

Adam is singing actual tunes now. We are going to see his underwater photos tonight - have a feeling they wont be too good as he was definitely not in the mood on the day. Jo was the first mum to leave the pool as it just wasnt working. 

Oh I remember the 1-4pm being awake, I was dead on my feet. may it pass quickly for you!

Merry xmas everyone

Heather


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## lucky2010

HI all,

Good to hear how things are going for everyone.

All is going well here, Alex slept for 6 hours in one go last night, from 11.15 to 5.20am.... I was so amazed when I woke up! His character is emerging more everyday now and it is so wonderful getting to know him! He weighs 16lbs+ now and is wearing 3-6 and 9 month clothes, he really is a bit of a giant for 10 weeks!!! He is on the 98th centile for height, weight and head circumference. It's a bit strange really as the donor is only about 5' 10" and i am 5' 8" so neither particularly huge!! We are going to my Mums for Christmas and leaving tomorrow.... I am so excited as Julie has 6 days off work and It'll be so nice to spend the time together. We have given up on the bottle feeding for now as the only thing he wants in his mouth is my boobs!!! Don't think there is much else to report.

I hope that everyone has a  fantastic Christmas.

Love Rach, Julie and Alex x x


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## rosypie

arrrrr, I remember that engorged feeling well @mable. It had diappeared by the next day and I remember weeping that my boobs really had 'finished their job'...

re: BF and hormone levels; My FSH was high when I was checked at the clinic after BF. I stopped feeding in the July and the test would have been in the Sept or Oct (can't remember exactly). Anyway, I remember it was quite high before Jude but I wasn't so clued up with the numbers back then (although I don't think it was more than 10 and perhaps 2nd time round was more like 11 or 12) - sorry that I can't remember exactly. What I do remember was that I got pg on our 2nd natural IUI with Jude but 2nd time round our first natural IUI in the November (so 4 months post BF) had to be cancelled because my ovaries were doing 'nothing'. We moved straight to assisted cycles after that. Unfortunately, I didn't have scans with the Jude IUIs so have nothing to compare to; it is of course possible that my ovaries weren't doing anything that 1st cycle first time round and that the 2nd cycle was a fluke that produced Jude...who knows? What I would say is that, while it's possible to get pregnant and BF (happens all the time doesn't it) I would definitely get rid of anything that had even the slightest possibility of reducing our chances. You want best case scenario when you're spending all that energy and money right?...

Sorry to hear about your hard time mags. Even BF for a short time has huge benefits though so don't be hard on yourself. And, she's still young so might need a feed in the night for a while yet. Jude still asks for milk regularly in the night although we ignore him now and he gives up in the end.

We went to Eve's dad's wedding this week and afterwards they had arranged this chinese banquet. It took about 4 hours to get through, 30 minutes per course to clear plates and lay out tiny portions of the next. NOT child friendly at all but I have to say Jude was an absolute darling, a star. Welling with pride we were. He sat there nicely, drew quietly and carefully for an hour, wandered around for a bit, played nicely with his cars in the corner. He was ACE.

Jude is petrified of modelling balloons. He loves other balloons but the modelling variety apparently. He was so scared he wouldn't look me in the face, kept trying to hide in my cardigan. When he finally calmed down after about 30 minutes it only took another child approaching with a balloon dog to send him running into my arms again. Poor Jude, what are we to do?


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## magsandemma

Morning all

Well I went to bed at 00.30 and was up again by 01.30, lou wouldnt settle and I think its due to the wind and colicky, as she settles when upright on lap or shoulder, so had to get up as was scared would fall asleep in bed with her, so she has slept on my chest most of the night whilst I have been watching crap telly, am trying some colief now as infacol doesnt seem to be doing the trick!!  Anyone got any tips??  We moved her cot into our room last night too as she doesnt seem to like the fact that she cant see us from the moses basket when in bed, but bless her she looks so tiny in there!!

Mable  -  Bless the boobs youve done really well to feed this long, I cant say my boobs ever felt engorged unfortunately, hope it eases soon!

Rach  -  Alex sounds like he is doing grand bless him, growing well, lol!!

must go lou screaming, finish up later xx


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## evelet

have you tried a change of bottle? my sister swore by those Dr Browns (?) bottles which I think are sold in boots and are special no colic ones.


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## snagglepat

Hi all,

*Maggie*, sorry to hear you're struggling with wind/colic. I know others who have had success with different bottles/teats - it might be worth trying a few to see which ones suit Lou best. Also, someone at our breastfeeding group was using colief and was advised that you need to use it for 10 days or so before it will start having an effect. I'm not sure if this would be the same with infacol but it might be. It's been nearly two weeks since you posted this though, so things might have changed since then - I hope so for your sakes.

*Rosy*, it sounds as though Jude was an absolute star at Eve's Dad's wedding, bless him. Ember is so good at the moment, rarely crying for anything, smiling or even laughing at anyone who smiles at her - even total strangers, and so far, only ever being sick on one guest that we're wondering when our luck will run out. Maybe we'll end up with a hellish toddler.  How was Jude as a baby, my memory is failing me on that one.

*Rach*, its great to hear that Alex is doing so well. He sounds huge! Good for him.  We've also given up attempting to get Ember to take a bottle, It was too much hassle. Rae has taken on winding duty whenever she's not at work so it feels like we kind of share them then anyway. Still, it would be handy for going out. It's my birthday next week and Rae's parents have offered to babysit so we can go out for a meal - our first time out without her. It's a lovely idea, and we're going to try it, but we're going to go to the nearest place to home just in case I need to rush back for a feed.

*Mable*, I can understand *Edith's* desire to keep feeding. I know one day in the distant future I'll have to stop so we can try again but I don't want that day to ever come. I'll keep everything crossed that the IVF works better for you this time, but even so, it sounds as though Edith will have to give it up before then in preparation.

Ember's doing great. She's laughing and chattering away, and is getting bigger by the day. We're loving every minute.

Rae and I have been having some big conversations recently about what to do about having a second child. We've been feeling the time pressure because of Rae's age, knowing that if she is ever to carry a child we'll need to get back on the TTC rollercoaster with her as soon as possible. Even then the chances aren't that great as we've already tried 12 cycles with her, and the last of those was two years ago now. The thing is, we're enjoying Ember so much that we don't feel we want to get back into that yet, and the thought of having another baby so soon feels equally wrong. We just want to enjoy what we have for a while. Fortunately, having Ember has really brought home the fact, to both of us, that biology really is irrelevant once the child arrives, so we've decided not to start trying again for a while. At some point I'm sure we'll feel we want to have another child, and when that time comes we'll decide whether trying with Rae, who will be in her 40s then, is something we want to do or not. I'd be very happy to do it all again one day, and my biological clock has a good few years on it yet, so we shall see. We're staying as we are for a while though and it feels good to have taken the 'imminent TTC' pressure off ourselves.

I've made a web site of photos of Ember if anyone is interested. The link is in my signature.

Sending the best of wishes to you all,

Gina. x


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## ♥JJ1♥

Gina - Ember's photos are gorgeous
L x


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## nickster

Hi Gina - it's so lovely to see all those beautiful photos of Ember... does she ever stop smiling?! 

Sounds as though you and Rae are taking a very sensible approach to having a second baby. We tried to plot out our plans for number 2 with the boys over Christmas (I know, seriously pre-emptive!) and I must say I was thoroughly depressed by the idea of starting the TTC malarky all over again. And I know we had it relatively easy this time around. 

But needs must, particularly when it seems likely that daddy F will be posted to Afghanistan for the next 2 years - so we'll definitely need to use a clinic and all the logistics that entails. Anyway, anyway... all in good time.

It's so exciting to think that - all being well - I'll be joining this thread in 6 months' time!

Hello to all the other mummies! Incidentally, did any of you develop fibroids during your pregnancies? They found three at my last scan measuring between 1.5 and 3.5 cms, which they want to monitor in case they start causing problems...

Nickyx


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## Mable

Wow Gina - great photos! You are a beautiful family and I love the one with Grandad where Ember is having a very wise look at the camera. She will enjoy looking at these photos next year. Monty's favorite activity is looking through his 3 photo album "books", pointing out himself and people around him.

Sounds like a perfect decision just to enjoy Ember and not jump back on the TTC rollercoaster for a while. I'm glad we had our 10 months of pure enjoyment of Monty before I started TTC and all the frustration, longing and disappointment set in again. There have been nice gaps in between my 3 tries where I have been able to forget about it all, although now most of Monty's toddler friends have siblings conceived or born, which is a constant reminder of my lack of conception. Nicky, I think it's inevitable that we all think about our next conception, when it is so tricky to make it happen. It will always hang over us.

Mags - is Lou puking lots, especially when lying flat? Monty had reflux, which we thought was colic for a good while. It took us ages to get it diagnosed but once it was, the infant gaviscon worked well at keeping the milk down. A key sign is the amount of puking, of changing of babygrows that you have to do. I think I remember you said that she wants to sleep upright on you. We spent the first 6 months sleeping like this. It helps the milk stay down and ease their tummy pain.

Ros - Jude sounds fantastic! Can't imagine Monty being able to sit at a meal like that for any length of time. How are you feeling now the end of your pregnancy is approaching?

E has reduced to 1 breastfeed before bed. It's going well re engorgement and Monty accepts this. She can't face giving that up though, so I think she'll see whether I get pregnant and give up after that if she needs to.

Have started the pill, so my 2nd IVF cycle is underway. Start buserelin in 2 weeks time. I spent so long on buserelin last summer, I'm almost looking forward to being reunited with the needles and the side effects! Am also starting acupuncture.

Is lovely to hear all your baby and toddler news. What we need is a nice big group photo of us all. Perhaps a project for our next meet-up.
Mable x


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## lucky2010

gina, ember is gorgeous! love the site x


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## rosypie

It's snowing here!! and thick snow on the ground. Told Jude to go look out the window and tell me what he could see - "CARS!!!" was his only reply. Maybe Il'l go get him some wellies and a plastic sledge and go have some fun in the cold.


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## Mable

If bump allows, make Jude a snowman Ros! I've been promising Monty one all winter, he requests one every morning. Can't wait for snow down south. Wrap up warm and no slipping over mind you!


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## magsandemma

Hi all

Gina  -  the pics of ember are just fab, she is gorgeous, seems to be a very happy little girl!!

Rosypie  -  Bless Jude with the cars outside, lol, yeah you will have to build a snowman, we have only had a little shower of snow so far!

Rach  -  Hows you guys and alex doing?

Mable  -  Lou not puking loads but has had a few episodes of projectile vommiting, which generally happens when she is laying a bit flatter, will keep an eye on it tho, we are using colief which seems to be helping with the colic.

Well we are doing good, lou is now out of her moses basket in our room and into her cotbed, which did look massive for her at first but now she is in there in her growbag and is growing lots, she seems to like it better as she can see around her from in there, as in the moses basket shes not able to see out the sides, I think this is from the see thro cots in scbu and in hospital bless her!!  Also we got a few of mothercares anti colic bottles which she seems to like better as the back to nature ones now she seems to just play with or try to chew!!  Well we had a lovely xmas we stayed at emmas parents on xmas eve and lou got spoilt lots by everyone, she has so many clothes they seem to have taken over the house,    , think she has more than the 2 of us put together!!  Then my dad and stepmum and brother and sister where here for  a few days which was lovely to get to see everyone, also my other brother and his wife are over so we will be seeing them again today before they head home, been good to catch up with eveyone!!  Hope that you all had a good xmas and new year, speak soon!

Maggie, Emma & Lou
xx


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## pem

Hiyah,

Gina, just had to pop on to tell you that those pictures of Ember are amazing, they have got the tears flowing, you all look so happy!!


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## lucky2010

Good to see everyone's news.

Glad your scan was ok *Pem*, I loved our 20wk scan.... a little girl, wow.... they seem to be taking over the boys now!!

Alex was 12 weeks yesterday and weighs 18lbs and is wearing 6-9month clothes.... we really can't believe how big he is. He has been pretty ill with a chest infection and is on antibiotics, the doc said it would've been a lot worse for him if he hadn't been so big so we've been lucky. He's on a course of antibiotics which seem to have done the trick. He started sleeping through the night at my Mums house over Chrsitmas which was wonderful. We think the room he had in the travel cot made the difference, so he is now sleeping in his big cot in his own room. We didn't plan to put him in his own room until he was 6mnths-is, but it just seemed the right time. Unfortunately because he's been ill his sleeping pattern has gone a bit mad and we're now trying to get him back into a routine. We're starting to try a bottle again this evening... fingers crossed. I'll slim down our photo site so anyone who wants to see some pics can (link in profile)

Good to hear how you're doing with Lou, Mags.

take care, Rach x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

pem congratulations on your scan and having a daughter!!!
L x


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## lucky2010

some piccies now on alex's very own photo site (link in profile)


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## starrysky

Congrats Pem!!

Loved the photos Rach, he's a cutie and always nice to see the mums too!

I've added Adams webpage to my signature now, please feel free to sign the guestbook!!! 

Heather


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## ♥JJ1♥

Rachel- Love the photos of your little man and the doggie! Thanks for sharing them with us
L x


----------



## lucky2010

love adams photos heather.... hasn't he got amazing eyes?! x


----------



## Mable

Lovely photos of your babies, Heather, Rach and Gina - so impressed with these webpages that you've done for them.


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## starrysky

Hi everyone

Mable - i was just thinking of you yesterday, good luck with the IVF, how's Monty?. 

Any one any contact with Alison recently, hope Christopher is doing well. 

Adam had huge sickness episode in car yesterday, any tips for getting rid of the  lovely smell? 

Adam is having a big clapping phase at the moment.

Love to all

Heather


----------



## pem

Hi all!!

All your piccys are lovely, make me feel all cooey!!

Can I ask you all a question I am thinking about using washable nappies and was wondering if any of you had any experience of them and could offer advice on what type to buy, if you mix and match with disposables etc, any advice much appreciated!!

Ta

Emma


----------



## snagglepat

Hi Emma,

We're using washables and we're getting on really well with them - Rae's putting a load in the machine as I type as it happens. (Thanks to the breastfeeding problems we had initially we never really got going with the elimination communication.) We went to see our local lollipop lady to help us decide which ones to use. ( http://www.teamlollipop.co.uk/ ) She had a range of different ones that we could try folding/feeling and she used them with her son so could give us hands on advice. If there's someone like this near you it might be worth checking them out. We ordered a bundle from her initially which has done us well so far but now Ember's getting a bit bigger she's growing out of the ones we got at first. This has prompted some highly enjoyable online shopping by me, getting samples of a few types. I'm also about to attempt to make a few shaped ones to see how much work is involved. We've got loads of old towels I could convert if it's not too much of a challenge.

We've got on best with the types that are shaped like disposables and that fasten with velcro. We had a few that fastened with poppers but these never felt as secure, and the ones that use the nipper fasteners kept coming loose and the nippers scratched Ember's tummy when this happened. The ones we like best are made of bamboo - they're really soft, and very absorbent but they do take longer to dry than the other types. We also got some very fluffy fleecy type ones and they're great too, just not quite as absorbent (and they dry really quickly). The good thing about the shaped ones is they've got elastic round the legs and back so they're much better at containing stuff. We had some quite spectacular escaping poos in the early days (and lost a few babygrows as we just couldn't get the stains out), but I think that's par for the course anyway.

As for the outers, we have velcro ones of those too, and we're using the waterproof ones rather than the fleecy ones. Our favourites have become the mother-ease ones. The bambino mios don't seem to wrap around quite as well and the tots bots are a bit more inclined to leak, in our experience anyway.

We use the flushable liners too - much easier to drop one down the loo than to have to scrape poo off a nappy. The best we'e found are the tots bots ones. They're much softer and more absorbent than the others we've tried.

The drying issue was a big one for us in the first few weeks, as we didn't have a tumble dryer and we've not really got anywhere to dry things in the house in the winter. In the summer we use our lean-to conservatory, but it isn't heated and in the winter things take several days to dry and we needed them quicker than that. In the end, we swallowed our environmental pride and bought a tumble dryer and it's been an absolute godsend. (I never thought I'd be someone to say that.) I do know people who use washables that don't have a tumble dryer though, but they generally do have somewhere warm where they can dry stuff. For the record, we have about 20 nappies and we do about two washes every three days, and that's fine.

When we're out for the day we just keep using what we're using and bring home and dirty nappies in a bag to wash - we got a bag from the lollipop lady especially for this but you could just use disposable nappy bags too. We've used the Moltex disposables when we've been going away overnight or longer though, and we used them for the first week or two until Ember had passed all her meconium and her belly button had healed - the waterproof outers of the washables were a bit 'harder' and we though they might knock it. It didn't take much time using these before we were very happy with our decisions to use mostly washables - the amount of waste produced is phenomenal! A full bin bag every few days!

That's turned into a bit of an essay! I hope it's useful to you. If you wanted to make a trip down to Brum one day you'd be welcome to check out ours and see them in action.

And before I go - Rach and Heather - your boys are beautiful! It's so nice to be able to see some of the other kids on here. And Rach - I love Alex's monkey outfit!

Best wishes,

Gina.


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## snagglepat

And another little note to say its my birthday today and I got a card from Ember that said 'Mum' in big letters at the top. I nearly cried. It was a real symbol of the fact that what we've wanted for so long is finally here. 

Gina. x


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## lucky2010

happy birthday Gina!!

The monkey outfit is from gay capital... Hebden Bridge!! x

*Re. real nappies*: we were so full of good intentions but have failed (which I'm rather ashamed of )... first our washing machine broke as soon as we got Alex home form the hospital which put us off and I suppose another thing that influenced our decision was that Alex and I were both on antibiotics for a while following his birth and his bum was SO sore, we were going through over 20 nappies a day initially as his poos were so bad. Consequently we decided to stick with disposables. I do however have two samples that I bought that anyone who wants can have. One is a little lambs bamboo 0-9months with Velcro tabs, the other is a tots bots bamboozle 0-9months with press studs. They have both been washed about 6 times (but never worn) as this increases the absorbency and both feel really nice. The little Lamb one comes with a waterproof wrap too. I'm glad we only bought the samples as my friend bought £250 worth of newborn reuseable nappies and has never used one.... trying to reduce waste eh! Let me know by PM anyone who wants the nappies.

Tomorrow is a momentous day... The 4th anniversary since our first civil partnership ceremony (called a 'commitment ceremony' in Manchester before cp's were legalised), a year to the day since we 'made' Alex in Birmingham and we are going to the county court to get parental responsibility for Julie  Ont he downside, I have a chest infection and tonsillitis and feel totally rough .

Love to all x x x


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## pem

Happy Belated Birthday Mummy Gina!!

Did you have a good day yesterday Rach?? What a celebration, even when feeling rough!

Thanks so much for your advice Rach and Gina re the nappy issue!! I was worried that I will buy the nappies and then not use them because of the drying issue ( I HATE using my tumble dryer, in fact i'm not sure it even works anymore!!). It is all about the waste for me, I am an avid recycler and just want to carry on keeping my waste down, think i will order some samples, see how quick drying they are and make up my mind as to which ones to have, I think it will be between Totsbots and Motherease and my dryer will have to come out of hiding next winter!! I am glad you manage with 20 nappies Gina, it makes the whole thing much more economical!

Love to all you mummies!!

Emma


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## Mable

Just back from my first acupuncture session. Went with a real chinese practice for the authentic air, nice music. I stink of herbs. Was all very ticklish and shocking, with the cupping and the burning herbs over my stomach. Paid up for 13 sessions, thinking of it as drugs. Have to say that I'm feeling absolutely fantastic, she diagnosed my exhaustion and lower back pain just by feeling my pulse, which was impressive and my knee pain is gone. Not that I'm decrepid or anything...

Monty can say his own name, which he finds very funny. 

Happy Birthday Gina!

How was PR getting Rachel?

Off to meditate....


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## magsandemma

Hi all

Mable  -  sounds like you had a good acupuncture session, not sure about the burning herbs    but if it works its all worth it, I did enjoy my acupuncture, enjoyeed how relaxed and calm I was after each session, bless monty.

Rach  -  we were the same with the real nappies, we got a tommy tippee pack from on eof the nct sales, and we also got 10 shaped terry towelling ones and some plain covers, however what with Lou being in scbu for the first 6 days we never really got off to a start with them, however we have found tescos disposables to be the best fit for lou and they are much cheaper than the others so thats a bonus.  How is alex doing?

Gina  -  good that you guys got going with the reusables, and you seem to be getting on ok with them, and happy belated birthday!!

To everyone all the pics and sites of your little ones are fab, how to I go about making one??  Are any of you girls on ********, have lots of pics on there.

We are doing good, we had our 6wk check up with the gp on tues, and Lou is doing well, she now weighs 9lb 6oz, altho her height is just above the 9th centile and her head is also around the 9th centile, not sure what that means but I guess its below average, she also has a small umbilical hernia bless her, altho the gpp said that this will not cause her any pain and they do not do anything for it as it should go on its own in the next few months as her muscles get stronger, I asked him about her eye as the right one looks at bit croass eyed at first but he said that they will stabilise themselves over the next 6mths, so will have to wait and see.  I dont think I have posted on here about it before but we found out when Lou was born that she had downs syndrome which was confirmed by blood results a few days later, this was all a bit of a shock at the time as you will see from my birth story but we are both just so happy that we have a happy and healthy daughter and wouldnt change her for anything, when I said about it to the gp he said really as the hospital had not informed them, however at the mo Lou is not showing any problems with her health that are associated, she will stay under the care of the paediatrician for regular check-ups and she has to have a cardiac echo in the next few months to check her heart again however the ecg was all clear, so he was sure that would be ok.  We also had her hearing tests yesturday which were all fine altho Lou wasnt impressed with having things stuck in her ears, then we had an appointment with the bank to open Lou a savings account, just waiting for the child trust fund to come thro and we will open another account, have you guys all opened yours

Well must stop rambling and get on with sorting out my name changes with everyone which is what I was supposed to be doing, lol.

Speak soon
Take care
Maggie
xx


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## Damelottie

OOOH - I missed your ******** piccies! I'm off for a look now


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## rosypie

listened to Jude recite the alphabet, letter by letter, after my mum today (not entirely perfect of course ). he is too darn cute at the moment I nearly wept.


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## lucky2010

Mags, how to set up a photo site... we used www.myphotoalbum.com which is free and pretty simple. Would love to see some pics of Lou (could you PM me your name so I can see your ******** pics?). 

We didn't end up getting PR for Julie. It was such a saga... we went to our local court in  who said noone knew how to do it so we had to go into Manchester. I called first to see if we needed an appointment which we were told we didn't. Got there and we did so were asked to come back yesterday. Got there yesterday looking very scruffy (jeans and hoodies!) thinking we would just get the form signed and that was it... HA HA!!! Turned out we had to go into court and sit before 3 magistrates and were basically told that they weren't sure if the form (that we printed off the court service website) was legal in relation to CP's.... they asked to adjourn to look into the legality of it all and we have to go back on the 21st. They asked if Wed any questions so I asked (in tears!) how come people I knew (Gina and Mable) had literally just turned up at the court and got the form signed.... they said they were just making sure it was all legal. I was so upset and feel so frustrated. It feels very wrong.

Alex is doing fantastically. He now weighs 17lbs and is in 6-9 and some 9-12 month clothes (at 13 weeks!!!) he is amazing and the light of our lives!!!!

Acupuncture sounds great Mable, Julie has it but I really don't fancy it!

Ros, Jude sounds so cute.... wow to alphabet recital!

Must go Alex is rolling off his playmat!!

Rach xx


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## rosypie

Crikey, this was not our experience at all. We turned up with our CP certificate and the completed forms, queued up in a room that had what looked like post office counter/windows and had our forms stamped over the counter as it were. Jeans and hoodies optional. This was in London however I wouldn't have thought Manchester would be much different.

It will all come out in the wash I imagine, once the dinosaurs have brought themselves up to date.


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## candygirl

We just had our form stamped at the window of the local county court and then we sent it to the High Court in inner London (Holborn) to be verified.  So sorry to hear that you had trouble getting yours done.  Our form said that we had to go to the local county court, family proceedings court, or the High Court in London (Family Division).  It did not mention the magistrate's court - that's probably why they didn't know what the procedure was...

Henry's doing well.  He's 18 weeks now, and desperately trying to roll.  He's only 14 lbs though (having started at 9 lbs when he was born).  The breastfeeding was very hard in the beginning, so he dropped a few centiles, but he's creeping back up now.  And I'm still breastfeeding, which I'm very proud of.

Candy x


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## Alison0702

Hello everyone  

Feel a bit strange posting on the parenting board, as I dont really feel like I can be a "mammy" at the mo as cant do anything without the nurses permission, but I thought I would say hello as it's been ages since I've had the time to post.  

I have had a look at the photos and I cant believe how big Ember, Adam and Alex are      

Happy belated birthday Gina. Miss chatting to you hunny. Love your tattoo by the way.  

Be back shortly xxxxx


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## rosypie

Alison, you're as 'mammy' as the rest of us here. And it's nice to see you posting   Christopher seems to be doing amazingly well, can't believe how he's putting on the weight. Are we going to see some updated pics soon to coo over? x


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## lucky2010

we went to the county court first who wouldn't sign the form as they knew nothing about it. The court we went to in Manchester was the civil justice centre (with one room with magistrates in).... hope it's sorted soon.

Candy, good to hear from you and to hear how Henry is doing. You have done so well to carry on with the breast feeding considering you've been struggling. Would love to see some more pics of Henry.

Hello *Mammy Alison*, great to see you posting on here.. Hope your little star has had a good day today x x x

Hi to everyone else.

xx


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## snagglepat

Hi folks,

Hi *Alison* - it's so good to see you posting here! It's also really good to hear that Christopher is doing so well and should be home soon. I bet you can't wait.  I miss you too honey, but don't worry. When Christopher is home you won't have much time to post either.  (Glad you like the tat, I don't get to show it off much.) 

*Rach*, I've been doing some hunting on the HMCS web site (http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/HMCSCourtFinder/) and I can see that Manchester doesn't have a specific family court, which might be why the people you saw weren't so up on the law for same sex families. There's a Civil and Family court in Liverpool and of course, there's the family court in Birmingham if you want to try one of the others. But the bottom line is they can't deny you the parental agreement - you're legally entitled to it and whatever 'research' they've gone off to do will reveal that. So everything should be resolved come the 21st...

I still can't believe they're putting you through this though.

*Candy*, it's great to hear how Henry's doing, and huge congratulations on the breast feeding. I still remember the first four weeks of expressing and syringe feeding that we went through with a shudder and am so glad that Ember took to it so well when she finally figured it out. I've no idea how we'd be doing if we were still having problems.

*Maggie*, we haven't opened accounts for Ember yet but we will - our trust fund money hasn't come through yet. We thought we'd set up two accounts, the trust fund one we'd just put that money in and leave to grow and we've decided to go with CIS as that's where a lot of our finances are and we like their ethical policies, and the other would be one that we have more control over. From what we've read the trust fund one is just in the child's name and they get it all when they're 18. This is fine on one level, but we'd also like to save over the years in the hope that we'd have a nice lump sum for her by then from us, but one that can be used for something really useful, like university fees or a deposit on a house. If we retain some control over it we'll make sure it doesn't all get spent on living the high life. Not that Ember would ever do something like that of course.... It sounds like you might be doing something similar.

*Emma*, going back to the nappy topic, we've just spotted some organic cotton tie-on nappies that are really cheap. We're going to buy a few and give them a try as if they work out they'll definitely be more economical that buying a load more shaped ones. They're here: http://www.naturalnursery.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=22_49&products_id=190 if you fancy having a look yourself. We'll let you know how we get on with them.

*Ros*, you must try to capture Jude's alphabet reciting antics on video so we can see too - it sounds so cute!

All is well here. Ember is now 14lb 6oz and she's just off top of the chart for length at 63 cm. I find it amazing that she's grown 7cm in 12 weeks! She gets more interactive all the time and will now hold a conversation, cooing in response when she's spoken to. It's so cute! She's also ticklish, which of course leads to huge amounts of fun and games. On Thursday we're off to the local children's centre to their Parent & Baby group. I have no idea what it'll be like but we're going to give it a go! Apparently they also do baby massage sessions there, so we might check them out as well.

Best wishes to all,

Gina. x


----------



## evelet

I'm sure you'll have fun at the baby group Gina. Ros used to really enjoy those groups in London. Jude is more of a playgroup sort of age now though. When he was Ember's age she used to take him to baby massage but he was always wriggling about and trying to sit up (he used to do this weird sit up thing and his stomach muscle used to bulge alarmingly  ). She took him again later on when he could crawl and apparently he was a nightmare. While all the other babies lay down calmly and drifted off he crawled about having a look at everything...

his alphabet might have been a step too far after all. he's now mixing up counting and alphabet eg 1, 2, 3, J 

I am starting to get really excited about the New Baby coming (although we still don't have a clue about a girl's name.....). My sister said that when her younger son was born it made her older one look HUGE and gangly. Weird thought.


----------



## Mable

It's so exciting Eve that your baby with be with you soon. Can we have a pic of a very pregnant Ros to look at, do you think she'd mind? So exciting when they start to speak isn't it. Not that M is up to the alphabet and all his counting is 'two, two,two, two' with lots of concentration.

Hello to Alison - lovely to hear from you. As others have said, you are 100% Mammy.

Mags - just had a great read of your birth story, a wonderful read, you both went through so much in those early days, my thoughts are with you. Many congrats again - and how do I find your pics on ********? We also bunged the government's money into the CIS baby bond thing - for the same reasons as Gina, it's ethical, but you don't have control over the money, so we'd rather save for M whilst retaining control. The Halifax do a children's savings account that pays 10% interest, BTW.

Rach - sorry you had such an unexpected nightmare re the PR thing. Ours was really simple, it was a county court. Hope you get it sorted soon.

E is trying to stop breastfeeding again - this is her first day without it, rather emotional but positive. Keeps welling up when she thinks of her last breastfeed but trying to take it one day at a time. Spoke to the clinic again and there's no way round it, she has to stop before she can have another go at IVF and it's at least 3 months, but more like 6 months before she can start IVF, so that's rather decided it. She's really sad and so am I really, but it's for the best. And I think that she could always restart again if I do get pregnant - a friend of mine restarted after a month's break.

Best wishes to all and great to hear all your baby/toddler news,
Mable


----------



## starrysky

Just lost all my post!!!       I love having a laptop but its so temperamental, I wanted to be able to post more but its not playing the game!! And I have a very sore typing arm from work and lifting all two stones of Adam, may he walk quickly now!!

Mable - what dilemmas, there are so many considerations to make. We'll be there again soon, its BMI challenges for us. I am heavier than I've ever been and I blame ttc completely, five years of comfort eating!!

Rach - i hope the PR gets sorted out soon, what an unnecessary hassle. 

Can't remember who asked but Adams webpage is www.babyhomepages.net  It's free too. 

Wanted to share a website with you www.whatson4littlekids.co.uk. Its very useful for local activities. 

Alison - I've been looking forward to your first parenting post. welcome

Going now before internet problem

Heather


----------



## starrysky

Sorry its www.whatson4littleones.co.uk.

H


----------



## Mable

I've got a super trendy girl's name for Eve and Ros's baby girl - heard it in Brighton at the weekend on the beachfront playground, super smart parents ---

Hilda.


----------



## lucky2010

I love the name Hilda!!!! Not sure I could do it though! If we have a little girl next Julie wants her to be called Martha.... I promised she could have her way!

Our health visitor is coming round tomorrow to teach me baby massage... should be interesting! Alex has started sleeping through the night again which is wonderful, he sleeps from 8-10 hours in one go without a feed which is absolute bliss for me and Julie! Alex and I have just been away for the night to my Mums, it was our first night away from Julie since we were in hospital when he was born and it was nice but strange! I have an action packed social calender this week, what with meeting people for lunch with three babies under 4 months (mad) to going to jolly Hebden Bridge for the day on Friday.

I'd love to see preg pics of Ros too!! Are there any plans for another meet? I'd like to come this time!

Rach x


----------



## snagglepat

Hi everyone,

I love the idea of another meet *Rach*, but we better not offer to host this time - we're just doing the last minute tidying up in preparation for putting our house on the market s we can move to Shropshire and be closer to Rae's work. Any offers for hosting one from anyone else?

I really like the name Martha. One of my clients called their little girl Martha back in 06.

Let us know how the baby massage goes *Rach*, I still haven't decided whether I'm going to go to a class or not.

Today was a good day. Rae was off work so we went out shopping to buy me new non-maternity clothes. (I've not yet shrunk back down to my pre-pregnancy size but am the wrong shape for my maternity clothes so have been living in jogging bottoms for the last month.) I've got a few new outfits now so I feel all smart and trendy, even if I am rather chunky with it.  I've also decided that its time for the dreadlocks to go. As much as I love them and even the thought of not having them feels really weird as they've been part of my identity for so long, they've been sicked on and dangled in poo one too many times. I can grow them back one day, but practicality wins out for now. So it's time for a whole new look for me, and it's all quite exciting. I won't be the grungy hippy one any more!

Have any of you fellow breastfeeders got into milk donating? It was mentioned at the breast feeding support group I went to when we were having trouble in the early days and now things are going well and I'm often expressing a bit of surplus for my own comfort I thought I'd look into it. I have to admit that I feel so much more aware of what prem babies go through after Alison and Ju's experience, and it seemed daft that it's all just sitting there in our freezer if it could be helping someone. Anyway, donating is so easy! They're coming to the house to take my bloods for testing and assuming they're fine they'll drop off sterile bottles every week or two and come and pick them up again. All I have to do is fill them and stick them in the freezer. If anyone else here is breast feeding and can spare a few drops then please do get in touch with your local milk bank (http://www.ukamb.org/about.htm). Just one fluid ounce of milk can feed a prem baby for a day and a half, so even small amounts can make a big difference.

I hope it wasn't insensitive to post that when *Edith* is going through the trauma of giving up breast feeding. Hugs to you Edith for that.

Best wishes all round,

Gina. x


----------



## lucky2010

Hi Gina,

I was thinking about milk donation too and looked into it but unfortunately I can't as i had to have blood transfusions when Alex was born. I'm quite upset about this as I used to regularly donate blood. I was really anti having a blood transfusion when i was in hospital but i lost over a litre of blood and my Hb dropped to 7. They scared me by telling me that I wouldn't lactate if I was anaemic so I gave in and had the transfusions  

Will let you know how the baby massage goes.

I would love to host a meet but my two hyper-active terriers probably wouldn't cope too well with having too many people around.

If PR isn't straight forward on Monday we will be coming to Birmingham so would love to meet up.

BTW, do you know why my avtar has disappeared? I have tried to upload numerous new photos to my profile and it won't work!

Rach x


----------



## starrysky

hi guys

I am probably going to sound a bit mad   but I feel a bit ****** off. 

i dont know if its something about my posts or that i don't post very often but i just feel I get so little response. 

I was going to post tonight about how exhausted I feel and then saw that noone has even responded in any way to my last post which just makes me think "why bother", why spend the time doing it.

i follow everything that happens with you all even if i dont always post, and I always wish you all well .

Heather


----------



## lucky2010

Hi *Heather*,

You don't sound mad at all... I sometimes feel the same about my posts. I did read your post with interest and even went on the whatson4littleones website which has given me a few dates for my diary (so thanks a lot for that!), I then got distracted from my post by a crying Alex and then came back to it, signed off and posted it without remembering to finish it off.... I'm sorry, I meant to thank you for the link then and also to ask how *Mable * was getting on with her cycle and also to ask *Mags* how she was doing.

I'm now distracted from another post by, once again, a crying Alex!!! Don't feel peed off please... I love hearing ghow you're doing and Adam updates are also read with interest!!!

Love to all x xx


----------



## Alison0702

Hiya 

I have decided I am not going to post on the thread about Alex, as that is a different topic, and saying as there is no general chat thread anymore ( much to my annoyance when this thread changed) you are getting my moans and groans  

Heather hunny dont feel peed off about your posts. I read them and I sometimes cant respond but you are always in my thoughts and lovely Adam and Jo.      


Oh man, what a flamin week!

Christopher decided to stop breathing a few times and had to be given lots of oxygen. After 3 episodes of this in about 3 hours they moved him back out of the green area (again) and back into the Blue, back on cpap/antibiotics/off his milk/x-rayed/took bloods.
In the blue they can only have 4 cpap babies and as he was the 5th in there, he had to move back to the red area  

I am so ****** sick of this **** 

I know its 2 steps forward and 3 back but it's really getting to me now. He's done well today and maybe be off his cpap in the next day or so. I think he has a cold cos he's sneezed and coughed a few times and his eyes look watery. Also he had a blood transfusion yesterday so that might make a difference to how he is feeling.

It's hard being back in the red, even though I know he shouldnt actually be there. There are some really sick babies in there and I could really do without seeing that - I think we've seen enough now.

I would have been 37 weeks pregnant today. I would have been time up next tues and they would have been here if they'd not shown their faces. I know its stupid to think like that but I cant help it. 

I saw a girl from my one and only pregnancy class in the canteen today and she was massive. I craved that so much. I want my babies inside still so much  It's not fair.

I am so lucky to have Christopher and I know the last week has had a massive impact on my mood so much. I just look at him with his cpap machine strapped to his little head and a canula stuck in his arm and it breaks my heart cos I cant do anything at all to help him. 

On top of it all, I want answers to why this happened and I am still waiting for a follow up appointment to the joke of an appointment the last time. I know its probably just a twin thing, but I want to know!

Hope you are all ok xxxxxx


----------



## starrysky

Oh dear Alison, that is so horrible. You must be living in fear all the time, with no let-up. I'm willing Christopher back in the green as soon  as possible. I hope you do get an explanation for what happened. I can imagine how it must have felt to see the other pregnant woman, two of the woman at musical bumps who have one year olds are pregnant again, and I found myself really wanting to be pregnant again but i know I couldn't live with the fear again. I couldnt take the chance. I hope he gets better again soon. It is so bloody unfair that you have gone though this, I know its not fair for anyone but after all you'd already gone through.......I think of Alex often, I feel he's joined our friends little girl (as SANDS say, always loved, never forgotten).    

Rach, thanks for your kind words, I have been so exhausted I am sensitive to everything. Our office has moved and it took me two hours to get home tonight, meanwhile Adam was in nursery. Since coming home I have been on my feet for hours, as is the case most nights, I keep running out of energy. Its a horrible feeling when you have to keep doing things. I am glad you liked the website.

Should go now, sleep would be good. 

Heather


----------



## Damelottie

Hiya Alison

It must be awful - being back in the red place - is that the right way to say it? And it has gone on for so long and must feel relentless and tiring. With regard to you saying you can't do anything to help him tho - you just DO Alison, by being there all the time. Undoubtedly he will be only too aware of that. I wonder if his difficulties in the last few days ARE down to him having a cold? That would be bound to have an effect.

Lots of love and    to all 3 of you.

Heather - sorry you feel so exhausted. I'm not suprised with 2 stones of Adam   

Love to all

Emma x


----------



## magsandemma

Hi all

Alison  -  Sorry to hear that Christopher is back in the red room but like you say he is only there as no space in the other room, him having a cold has probably not helped him, bless him, hoping that he gets better soon, hes a strong little man so hoping its not long til hes back in the green room, I am sure he knows that you are with him all the time and just being there with him is brilliant so you are doing lots!!  Thinking of you all.

Heather  -  Sorry you feeling so tired, please keep posting I do read up about everyone and its great to hear how you are all doing, am a bit rubbish at doing personals as only get a few done and then its time to sort Lou out but luckliy tonight emma home and feeding Lou so can get to post properly, I had a look at the website and its great, I am looking at taking Lou to baby signing and baby music, have you tried any of these, looking to get some views on peeps who have tried some classes as there are so many classes out there not sure which ones are the best to go to??  Can I also ask when did you start looking into childcare, am not sure what we are going to do yet, whether childminder or nursery would be better, but guess we should start soon as summer will be here and will have to go back to work, however only planning to go back part time.  Hope you feeling beter soon!

Rach  -  Hope that you girls have more luck on the PR front this time than before, we we be starting to look into the adoption route very soon, I think I read on mables post that we can start when Lou is 3months old, so will be getting started soon I hope.  Had a llok at your pics on ******** wow alex is a big boy bless him, he looks so happy.

Gina  -  Bless you on your new look, must be nice I remember when Lou and I got out of hospital, on eof the first things I went to do was go to the hairdressers and have my hair chopped and highlighted again, felt almost human again after that, I know what you mean about clothes, I can get into a few pairs of my jeans from before pregnancy, but on diet again which we both started last week and I lost 5lbs in first week so hoping keeps going, as am at my all time heaviest and dont like it.  Will be weird for you to get rid of you dreads Im sure tho.

Mable  -  Thanks for your comments on birth story I realised after I had posted that I hadnt put any times on it and such spelluing mistakes but it was typed mostly one handed, with Lou on my shoulder    .  Hows things going with you guys, and treatment?  Hows monty doing,    , bless him, he looks adoreable bless him.  Hows Edith going with the giving up breastfeeding, must be diff for her, hope its going ok.

Candy  -  Wow cant believe that Harry is 18wks old now, it doesnt seem that long ago since the post that he was born, bless him, its great to hear how you are doing.

Evelet  -  Bless Jude with his alphabet and numbers how cute??  Bet you guys cant wait for the arrival  of your LO, what does Jude make of it all??

Hope I havent missed anyone, sorry if I have, we have had a busy week so far, we went to first time mother and baby group on yesturday which was good, the speaker had cancelled, so it was just sitting around chatting, there were 18 of us there with bubbs ranging from 4wks-8mths, was so nice just to get out of the house and meet other mums, and was good as one of the girls who we chatted with at our parentcraft classes was there too, and she only lives a 10min walk away from us so we are meeting up for coffee and play on thurs which will be nice, we had our friend and her little boy who is 5wks come over today for coffee so that was good, and on friday we have our other friend coming over with her daughter who is 6wks old who we havent seen yet which will be lovely!!  We have our appt for Lous first set of jabs on monday and emma is working so just Lou and I going and I am really not looking forward to it at all, how did you guys get on with these??  It would be great to get to meet up with everyone, we would be happy to hold a meet at ours if thats any good for you guys but I now that we are quite away from some of you, but would be happy to have it here, has anyone got any dates that would be good to meet up  Must go now as emma sorting out bits for bed and Lou wide awake and wanting some attention bless her!!

Speak soon 
Maggie
xx


----------



## snagglepat

Hi folks,

*Alison*, huge, huge hugs to you. I can't imagine how down heartening it must be to have Christopher back in the red area, even if it is only through lack f beds where he should be. You continuously amaze me with how you've got through all of this. Christopher will get there, and soon too, I'm sure of it, and you'll all be at home together. You have a mountain of love coming to you from all of us here.

*Heather*, I'm sorry to hear you're feeling so rough too, and my apologies if anything I did (or more appropriately failed to do) made you feel worse. I think we all have times when we feel a bit neglected on here, I know I have at times. But I guess on this thread more than any of the others we all have very good reasons why we may get distracted or not have time to post everything we may wish to, and that's really something to be thankful for. Hope you feel better soon. 

*Rach* - well, after enthusing about how easy our PR was we got a letter today saying they the court official had failed to mark on the form that she'd seen our civil partnership certificate so it hasn't been granted and we now need to send it back with a copy of our certificate. It's not nearly as much hassle as what you've had to deal with but a pain none the less. If you d end up coming down to Brum to sort yours out be wary of this! And of course, we'd love to meet up if you d!  (We have friends in Sale that we're long overdue visiting and will let you know when we do eventually make it up there for a visit.)

*Maggie*, it's our first bumps and babies tomorrow so I hope it's as enjoyable as yours sounded. Isn't it great getting together with other babies. Ember finds other babies fascinating, and now grins at them whenever she meets one. I expect it'll be a total festival of joy for her tomorrow. 

Best wishes to all,

Gina. x


----------



## lucky2010

*Gina*, Sorry about your PR blip, but glad it's only a case of putting the certificate in the post! I'm starting to get really nervous about Monday... I've got this awful feeling that they're not going to grant it for some reason and it's going to cost us a small fortune to contest their decision (not catastrophising at all Rach!!!). What does getting rid of dreds involve? Is it a case of washing them out or do they have to be snipped? The 'Mummy Gina' makeover sounds great! I'm feeling a bit down about my weight; I put on 4.5 stones when pregnant and have lost 2.5 but it has stopped there. I know I'm not eating that well (very nutritional meals but with bad snacks) and definitely need to do more exercise, so it's my fault all round!!! We'd love you to come over if you are up in the area!

*Heather*, sorry you're feeling so knackered. It's such a horrid feeling 'having' to carry on when you're so knackered you can hardly function.

*Alison*, huge hugs to you x x x x

*Mags*, you sound like you're having a week like mine... lots of baby meets... I love it. Love the pics of you all on ********!

Love to *Emma*!

Baby massage was good. The health visitor was late though so my carefully structures sleep/ eat/ play pattern I had planned so that Alex was in the right 'mood' for massage went to pot and he started crying half way through as he was exhausted!! I wrapped him up on a towel and she showed me how to do the rest of the massage on a doll... There is a local group that is £1 per session that I might go to to meet up with other baby's and people. I have enrolled Alex on a 10 week swimming course that I'm excited about, it starts mid Feb after we've had our week away in Pembrokeshire (first family hol!). I've just spoken to the breast feeding midwife about getting A to take a bottle and she has suggested we try cups with soft spouts.... it's worth a try. My sis is coming over to make veggie sushi for tea so I'd better go and get chopping!!!

Lots of love to all and anyone I have missed.

Rach xxx


----------



## snagglepat

Hi *Rach*,

I'm trying really hard not to get depressed about my weight gain. I lost one and half stone after the birth but then put nearly a stone back on in the following month or two as we were both at home being all 'loved-up-new-family' and eating junk. Two weeks ago the 'no junk' diet kicked in and amazingly I've lost 6lb already, so I'm hoping that the rest of the four and a half stone I need to lose will go as easily. It sounds so daunting though - four and a half stone! Three stone will take me back to the weight I was when I got pregnant but I'd need to lose another two on top of that to get back to a BMI that isn't classed as overweight. I think if I can just get back to a size where I can fit into my pre-pregnancy clothes I'll be happy though.

I've signed up for baby massage at the local children's centre. It's a 3 week course in February and I'm really looking forward to it. The bumps and babies group was really good. There were three other mums with babies around Ember's age and we all ended up sitting around the same mat together while our babies lay there and looked inquisitively at each other. Ember loved it, she was fascinated by the other babies (there were some older babies there as well making all kinds of fun noises with the various toys), so much so that after 45 minutes she fell asleep and didn't even wake up for the nursery rhymes at the end. There's one other Mum in particular that I seemed t hit it off with so I'm hopeful I might have a new friend to do lunches and coffees with before long.

The swimming classes sound fun, as does the holiday in Pembrokeshire (we go there every year - next time will be in April).

How has the rest of your busy week gone *Maggie*?

Best wishes to all,

Gina. x


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## snagglepat

Ember slept through the night for the first time last night. Doesn't it feel strange when they do it for the first time (apart from the 'breasts about to explode' sensation)? 

Gina. x


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## magsandemma

HI all

Rach  -  Bless yeah its great to be out and about, we had busy week we had mums and baby group on mon, visiting on tues, then we went to one of the girls from groups house on thurs and met 2 other new mums which was nice, then yesturday we had our friend and her little girlie here, so busy busy, sounds like you are having fun getting out and about too, good to meet people in the same area.

Gina  -  Bless Ember, and bless your boobs for nearly exploding, how long did she sleep for, Lou has been going 6hrs at night for last week or so now,but all depends on the feed timings during the day, ad she pretty much feeds on demand in the day altho roughly 3-4hrly, so its been 2-8 or 12-6 sleeps overnight which is lovely, but the first time she did it, I remember waking emma to ask when she had fed, but she hadnt     , makes a big dif to our day tho if we both get a good nights sleep.

Well I have contacted the swimtime people to try to get Lou booked into their next classes for mother and baby swimming, sounds good underwater swimming and such, but emma will be taking Lou as I am not a fan of underwater swimming so couldnt do it to Lou but she loves her baths so much, need to get her swimming as soon as possible, have also contacted the Music train who are going to contact us when Lou is 3 months to see if they have spaces in the course then, but that sounds like it should be good fun.  I am really not looking forward to having Lous jabs done on Monday, but we have group just after and then some of the girls and babies go to costas for coffee so think I will go to coffe after this week to try to get to know some of the others, there is so many of them, was 18 of us last week, think I only managed to get to speak with 4 of them,    !!

I hope everyone else is ok, sorry for lack of personals, speak soon!
Maggie
xx


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## lucky2010

know what you mean about the exploding boob sensation *Gina*!!! HI to everyone x


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## lucky2010

Yeah... Julie has got Parental Responsibility!!! We went to the court this morning and the clerk just said 'you were right about how they do it in the other courts, we don't need the magistrates but they send their regards!' she just signed the forms and that was that, thank goodness for that!

Hi to everyone. Rach x


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## nickidee

Many congratulations! What good news - glad it all got sorted. I didn't realise you lived in M/cr or I would have advised you to go to the County Court just off Deansgate - they should know what to do in future should you decide to apply for adoption.
Nicki x


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## pem

Congratulations Rach and Julie!!!! Glad you got it sorted!!

Emma


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## lucky2010

Thanks for congrats.... it seems ages ago now!

Alex is doing my back in!!! He is now 18lbs 7oz (which is on the 98th centile still) and wearing size 4 nappies!!! I have had to give up on the Baby Bjorn carrier as it hurts my back too much but the hug-a-bub is just fantastic and still comfortable.

I am currently on hold to TomTom wasting my 'me' time whilst A is asleep as my sat nav is broken yet again!!

Nothing exciting to report here. I'm going back to work in 8 weeks and I'm dreading leaving him... especially if he still won't take a bottle!

Hope everyone is well x x x


----------



## snagglepat

Hi Rach,

Congrats again on the PR. 

I can't believe how big Alex is! No wonder he's doing your back in. We recently did some shopping around for a new carrier as the rebozo was beginning to be only really useful for shorter periods now she's heavier. We want to get hiking again (and have just booked a weekend in snowdonia in May to ensure we do) so we needed something that was supportive enough for both Ember and us for that. We went for the ergo carrier and it's fantastic! You're welcome to try it when we meet if you want.

We've also been keen to get Ember to take a bottle so I can get to the gym of an evening and we bought an Adiri breast bottle. It seems to work. We just tried it for the first time tonight and although Ember wasn't too enthusiastic she did take it for a small feed. We're going to keep trying - it's definitely a more positive response than we got from any other kind of bottle - she'd just chew the teats and spit them out. We'll keep you posted on how it goes.

Ember seems to be sleeping through most nights now, though it's not a dead cert yet and she'll wake for a feed occasionally. It's so much harder to get up to do those feeds now they're not every night though.  

I came out to one of the women from our bumps and babies group today. Rae and I were out with Ember and Rae was carrying her in the ergo when we bumped into one of the other members and her little boy. I just introduced Rae as my partner and she didn't bat an eyelid so hopefully it bodes well. I guess I'll find out when we go back to the group on Thursday if there's much of a gossip mill there. 

Best wishes all round,

Gina. x


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## lucky2010

I've just bought one of those bottles Gina... heres hoping!!! Would love to try the carrier when we visit!

I am about to start going to some groups so I'll have to come out soon too I imagine... joy!!!

I'm too stupid to sort out re-sizing my picture... can anyone help?!


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## rosypie

I have had some of the most fantastic double-takes from people on being introduced to "Eve, my other half"... *chuckle*


----------



## magsandemma

Hi all

Gina  -  Bless ya, coming out at group, the ladies I speak to and meet up with from mother and babies group all know about emma, so thats good and they are all fine, in fact one asked me today why emma doesnt come to group too!!  Hope your group is the same.

Rach  -  Boy alex is getting so big, bless him.

Well the lady came to group today to give us a taster of baby massage, was good but lou was asleep so didnt wake her, however 6 of us have got together and booked a 5 week course, so each week we having it at a diff persons house, starts next wed!!  

Now for a rant, I am sooo ****** off with the hospital, Lou needs to have a cardiac echo, which I believe should of been done by now, the paediatrician said in scbu it would be done in the first few months, and he wopuld see us in jan, well got appt to see him in march!!! which would be ok if had appt for echo before then, but h\avent heard anything, have spoke with secretarys, cardiology dept, echo dept, no-one knows anything about ut and no-one there even qualified to do it!!!!!!!!!!  So ****** off now, also when you look at the timetable for investigations for babies with downs this should be done at 6 wks, my hv has said i just need to pester secretary, thats ok if you can get to speak with her, i have left so many messages!!!!!!!!! Lou is ok in herself but this needs to be checked to be sure her heart is ok!!  Am going to ring tomorrow and make a complaint!!  Also I asked when we were in hospital about downs support groups, and was told they didnt know of any, well we have the 2 ladies who run our local group which is 5miles away, and a parent with her 18month old daughter coming for coffee on wed morn, which will be good, as I feel we have been let down by our local health service with regards to the Downs.

Sorry for rant, we ok otherwise, Lou starting to smile lots and make lots of noises, however since being sicky foolowing jabs we are back to 3hrly feeds but hopefully we will be back on track soon,    .

Hope you are all well

Maggie
xx


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## pem

Hehe, just to say.....the joy of introducing the 'other half', naughty to take such pleasure..but sooooo nice. My mum is particularly fond of the shock tactic approach!


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## Mable

The look that comes across people's faces as they try to work out how on earth you managed to make a baby.


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## snagglepat

Hi folks,

My it's quiet on here at the moment! How are you all?

*Maggie*, how are things going with the hospital? Have you managed to get that scan sorted? How is little Lou doing? If it makes you feel any better we've been waiting two months for a follow up scan on Ember's kidneys. We wonder if the fact that we turned down their offer of prophylactic antibiotics means we're blacklisted somehow... We're still chasing it up. Whatever the reason, it shows that your hospital isn't the only one that lets things slip through the cracks sometimes. I hope it's sorted now, or is soon.

Your first massage class is today isn't it? Do let us know how it goes.

Nothing interesting came of my coming out to that other group member by the way. I was at the music group this morning and everyone was way more interested in the fact that I've chopped my hair off. I don't know if it got passed on anyway. Oh well, it'll get out eventually.

Ember and I were in the local paper yesterday. The online version is here if anyone fancies a peek: http://www.birminghammail.net/lifestyle/family-life/health/2008/02/05/home-births-are-more-relaxed-and-a-fantastic-experience-97319-20436389/

Sending best wishes all round,

Gina. x


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## Mable

Like your haircut Gina!


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## lucky2010

Great to meet you the other day and to see your article Gina!! Have put a pic of Ember and Alex on my photo site (not that good a shot!)

Alex had his third lot of injections today and he has the biggest lump on his leg... it's awful to see him in pain  

Nothing else to report. Hope everyone is well x x x


----------



## magsandemma

Hi all

Wow Gina you look very different with your hair chopped off, had a read of your article very good, Embers new pic is fab!

Well we had our first baby massage class yesturday, was very good and Lou and the little girl next to her just zonked out completely for 30mins after, the pair of them looked drugged,      , thye were so chilled, so going to try to do this with her bedtime routine, after haer bath see if this helps to chill before bed.  Well Lou is doing fab on the sleeping front, she has slep for 8.5hrs the last 2 nights, so hoping this is the start of sleeping all night, its fantastic, got her weighed yesturday and she is now 11  2oz bless her, its so lovely that she is so chatty now and making lots of noise and smiling, trying to giggle too!!  So we are doing well, I have a busier social life now than ever, with baby group, massage, and coffee afternoons, its fab!!

I ended up admitted to hospital twice this week due to chest pain and palpitations, which they think could be SVT, so now under the cardiologist and awaiting lots of other tests, hoping ti sorts itself out and not pleasant at all.

With regards to Louises appointments, she has now been referred to another hospital for her echo, so we have another wait, however have been gathering lots of info, so we are prepared for our appointment with the consultant in march, also have our 3month well being check next week, so will be speaking with the midwife about everything as well and get her to make some referrals for us, as there is an opportunity class in stevenage which is for children with special needs from 6mth-2yrs, but she has not told me about this, I found it online and its for parents and children to attend, Lou may not need it, but would be good to give it a try, anything that may help her, however she is developing just like her friends of her age which is promising and is so strong bless her.

Anyway must stop waffling, hope you are all well, didnt really get anywhere on the personals, will try again another time, Lou awake from her 10min power naps that she enjoys in the day now,     !

Maggie
xx


----------



## snagglepat

Hi Maggie,

I get attacks of SVT, have done all my life. I got a few in pregnancy that we were cautious with and I went in to A&E then but they always stopped by themselves before they got round to giving me anything for them. I've had a few scans etc which show that when I'm not having the SVT my heart is completely healthy and as the attacks usually stop by themselves within an our or so they've essentially signed me off now. I don't need any treatment. It's not nice when it happens but as long as I sit/lie down and rest to wait till the pass I'm fine. I guess having had them all my life I'm used to them but I can imagine it must be pretty unpleasant when they're new to you. Try not t worry about it too much. Chances are you'll be completely fine and at least they're going to be looking into it now.

I'm so glad to hear that Lou is doing so well. What a little star. 

We had bumps and babies again today. The health visitor was there so I got Ember weighed again and she's now up to 15lb 5oz. She's well and truly found her hands now and is almost at the point where she'll grab things and pull them to her mouth. Not quite though. She keeps hitting herself in the face instead. 
*
Rach*, thanks for putting the picture of Alex and Ember up, it's lovely to see. I wish I'd got my camera working and had taken more though, especially when they were sitting opposite each other and Alex was trying to get Ember's hands into his mouth. It was so great to see you and to get a cuddle with Alex. He's such a cutie. How's his leg doing since his jab?

We've decided not to vaccinate and are following a homeopathic approach instead. Has anyone else done anything other than the standard vaccination protocol?

Best wishes all round,

Gina. x


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## evelet

@Gina - re vaccination. I did read up a lot about it at the time with Jude but decided in the end that it was better to vaccinate than not. I suppose I kind of feel like I'd have been relying on most other children being vaccinated to protect Jude (not that I disapprove of your choice or anything because I don't!!). I'd be v interested to hear more about the homeopathic approach your are following tho.

Loved your newspaper article - Ember looks like such a cutie and your hair looks fab!

@MagsandEmma - i can imagine that you are going to end up having to source a lot of the support for Lou (and the two of you) yourselves. My older sister knows a lot about special educational needs etc and used to teach very young ones with downs. If you want her to get in touch just to talk about it i know she'd love to talk to you. Message me if you are interested  

Jude is VERY jealous of Bruno and tries to hit him etc. He did hit him with a book and Bruno cried but otherwsie we are fine!!! I go back to work on 19 Feb so will have had 3 weeks off with the family. I still can't over the fact that we are 4 now and that we have 'the boys'    My lovely mum has been staying and helping us which has been brilliant and makes me wish i lived nearer her. I am so keen to parent like she parented me if i can. She's so calm and positive and confidence inducing so I feel very lucky really. Jude has been going for walks with her to the 'booofter' (the butcher) and the playground etc and really enjoying it. He's trying to talk a lot more but mainly he's been watching his DVD of the Disney movie Cars. I kind of hate Disney really but I can see why he likes it - its quite a good film really (altho maybe not the 12th time you watch it  )

How's everyone else getting on?


----------



## pem

Hi there!!

all you girls sound well and happy!!! Just popped on to say the newspaper article was great Gina and the picture lovely!!

I'll be following your vaccination discussions as I think i'll be having them seperately if we can afford it!!

Lots of   to all you weary mama's!!

Emma


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## snagglepat

Hi folks,

All quiet here! How's everyone doing? Let's have some updates folks!

We're good. Ember is now beginning to move into her 6-9 month clothes already and is being very chatty and happy. We spent a few days last week thinking we might try and get going with a routine at bed time. We spent three evenings pacing back and forth with a crying baby trying to get her to sleep until we decided that we really ought to listen to her and let her choose her own pattern. Since then she's been going to sleep quite happily wherever she happens to be at around 9-10pm (in her chair, in arms, lying on her mat) and we're all more relaxed. That'll teach us to attempt to impose our ideas on her then! 

We're off to the adoption services place in town this afternoon to submit our notice of intent to adopt and get our CRB checks underway. It's mad, but I feel a little nervous about it. Got to be done though!

Best wishes all round,

Gina. x


----------



## candygirl

Hello all,

We're good.  Henry is coming up to 6 months old, which is frightening - I can't believe how quickly the time has gone.  

He has quite a good routine at bedtime and is usually asleep by 7pm, but he is still waking up 3 or 4 times a night for a feed which is exhausting.  He's always happy though, so we're doing something right.

We're also starting up the adoption process for DP.  Our allocated social worker seems lovely and thinks the whole process should only take a couple of months.

We're off to Australia tomorrow for a holiday and to see relatives, and I'm dreading the flights - everyone says that babies sleep well on planes, but I'm not convinced.

I hope everyone is well.

Candy x


----------



## lucky2010

Hope you have a fab time in Australia *Candy*. I can't believe Henry is almost 6 months old either... people are always saying that time flies when they're little but it really does!!!Hope your adoption process does go as smoothly as the SW says... very exciting, keep us posted with progress!

Hi *Gina*, exciting about your adoption process starting too... you too must keep us posted. We have decided not to go for adoption at the moment as we will most likely have another baby with me as the bio-mum, so if we do decide to do the adoption they can both be adopted together. Does it have any more legal benefits than PR? Ember sounds like she's doing so well

Hope everyone else is doing ok.

We've just got back from Pembrokeshire. I was a bit anxious for the first few days when we got there for some reason but relaxed a bit after a few days. The cottage we rented was a bit of a dissapointment so we came back a day early and I am knackered after a 200mile drive!! Alex is doing well, he has started rolling and is near impossible to get a nappy on now!! He likes to sleep on his front now at night which was terrifying to begin with but I'm just getting used to it. Weigh in on monday which will be interesting as we have started to give him some solids which he is loving.

Going now as knackered. love to all x x x


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## magsandemma

Hi all

Right this is going to be 3rd time lucky I hope I have typed up 2 bigs posts the last few days and lost them, so frustrating!!!  Louise is having a nap so hopefully will manage to post it today!!   

Candy  -  Wow cant believe henry is 6mths already, hope you guys have a fab holiday.

Gina  -  Exciting that you guys are starting the adoption process will be interesting to see how it all goes, we must get sorted soon, did you guys ring to get an allocated social worker or just go there

Rach  -    Wow Alex is gettting big too, sorry to hear your cottage wasnt what you expected, we were thinking of renting somewhere like that to go for a week or so.  Was it weird being away for the first time

Mable  -  Hows things with you guys??  

Heather  -  Hows things with you all??

Sorry to anyone I have missed, hope you are all well!!

We are doing ok, we have still not had any news from the hospital on Louises echo yet, and its really ******* me off, I have left messages again on the secretarys phone but she never seems to answer them,     .  Otherwise Louise is doing well she was 11lb 14.5 at last weeks weigh in, and she just seems to be getting so big, but its great the more her little personality is coming out, she is smiling so much now, and really trying to giggle.  Baby massage is going ok too, just difficult some weeks to get the babies all ready together, getting 6 settled for massage is a task sometimes, as when one starts screaming a few more follow,     .  We have meet up with the local downs syndrome support group again and its a great source of information as there children are a little older than Louise and they can help us with what we need to push for, the health visitor has referred us to the local opportunity class which will be great as it will be a point of contact for everyone like speech and language, physio, and ot etc.  Louise is doing great though trying to sit up alone all the time, she is very strong, now that she can hold her head up most of the time, she doesnt like to put it down    !!  Right must stop waffling, its emma parents wedding anniversary today and we going round there is evening, lots to get done before, so best get some bits sorted.

Good to hear how you all doing!! 
Speak soon

Maggie
xx


----------



## emnjo

Hey! 
Just thought I would pop in and update you all...

I had DIUI at LWC on tuesday, so the 2ww has started! I am feeling really positive, yet also reluctant to obviously really get excited yet. We will just wait and see and carry on going if it doesn't work. This is our first IUI remember!

I'll keep you posted

Emma X


----------



## pem

Good luck with it emnjo, sending you loads of    , hope the 2ww passes as smoothly as possible and you get the result you want!!

Emma x


----------



## emnjo

pem said:


> Good luck with it emnjo, sending you loads of   , hope the 2ww passes as smoothly as possible and you get the result you want!!
> 
> Emma x


Thanks - its hard eh?!

I have a metalic taste in my mouth, but its only day 4 (IUI was on tuesday) surely this is way to early to have any symptoms - maybe I am going loop the loop to quote good old shirley valentine


----------



## pem

I have to say, I went loop the loop every time and I am the worst symptom spotter in the UK, so i can offer no real advice other than to keep busy and try and take your mind off it       If that is at all humanly possible !!

Emam


----------



## snagglepat

Hi all,

We got back earlier today from our first holiday as a family. We booked ourselves into a little holiday park in Derbyshire in a log cabin with a sauna that we could take Digger to as well and we've had a really lovely time. The park had a pool so we got to take Embie swimming a few times and we went walking every day. I came down with the lurgy abut halfway through though, so have been coughing and spluttering for a few days. Ember is now unwell too. She's a bit coughy and sneezy so we just thought it was what I've got, but Rae noticed when she changed her nappy a few hours ago that the rash that she had on her face (that we thought was eczema due to excess slobber) is now all over her legs and a bit on her belly too, so we'll see how she goes and might be off to the docs on Monday. She's got no fever, and is her usual chatty self half the time so we don't think it's anything serious. We're quarantining ourselves for the weekend just in case though.
*
Maggie*, it's great to hear how well Lou is doing. Ember's beginning to sit up too - now she supports herself as long as we hold her hands, but she's still inclined to thrown herself backwards with no notice so we daren't let go yet.  Lou sounds as though she's growing really well too. Any chance of an updated picture?

We haven't been allocated a social worker yet. In the first instance we had to just chat by phone and then we had to go in and submit our intent to adopt - they gave us the form - and get CRB checks done. Once these are through we'll be allocated a social worker. I'm quietly hoping it'll be the one we've already spoken to as she's lovely and seems really on the ball, but we don't know yet. Apparently some other authorities do the CRB check later in the process but it's the first step here, so elsewhere people might get a social worker sooner.

*Candy*, have a fabulous time in Australia! Which part are you going to? I too can't believe how quickly Henry's first six months have gone by. I hope the journey isn't too difficult, but I'm sure those flights with a 6 months old would be easier than a 12 month old. We want to go over again to catch up with family, but we said from the start if we went it'd either have to be before Ember was independently mobile or after she was old enough to understand the concept of sitting still. Given we're planning to move house soon the former is now out so it'll be a few years before we're next over there. Enjoy it for us too will you?
*
Rach*, sorry to hear your holiday wasn't as great as it could have been. We can recommend a lovely place in Derbyshire if you're interested. It must have been tough. I hope you're feeling all recovered now. How are things going with the feeding? Have you managed to convince Alex to take a bottle yet? How was the weigh in?

Sending the best of wishes to everyone else,

Gina. x


----------



## lucky2010

Just a quick one... I decided that rather than trying a bottle with Alex in the day i'd try it in the dark for his bedtime feed... well, he took almost 7oz and fell fast asleep!!!! Fingers crossed he can get the hang of it this way!! Weigh in was fine, he's 20lbs and 20weeks!!!

Gotta go so no personals but will try and get on in next few days.

Keep an eye on Embers rash Gina and let us know how she is.

Rach xx


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## rosypie

Great news about the bottle *@rach*. Having them take a bottle is pretty essential if you ever want to go out!! We got it all wrong with Jude and he wouldn't have a bottle until 11 months. I found it so difficult to express though so that made the whole thing fraught with negativity for me. I've tried again this time with Bruno - we're desperate that he take a bottle, not just so we can get out once in a while but so that Eve can do some feeding. I can express a couple of ounces no trouble, then I dry up. Eve's sister always had plenty of milk and could never express a drop. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it... I had to go back to work for 3 months when Jude was in his first year (because we were relocating and I had to 'work off' company maternity pay) and the days that he went to nursery were milk free for him. He drank water and ate his lunch etc but just refused point blank to take milk (either expressed or formula) from a bottle. He wouldn't have a beaker either. Now he's 2 and half and totally stuck on his bottle and will NOT drink milk from anything else. That is going to be our next struggle...

Hope you're having a great holiday *@candy* and that the flight was not so bad. I agree with Gina, I'm sure it's easier at 6 months than 12. And, the thought of getting on a plane with Jude now is petrifying.

That first holiday is a milestone *@gina*!! Hope you got some good pictures for the scrapbook. I'm feeling guilty lately how I've collected all this stuff for Jude's book and haven't started putting anything in it yet. This has been rammed home now with the arrival of Bruno and the realisation that I have started the whole process again with another child!! I suppose it's something I'll have to put together when they're older I guess...

Can't believe you're in the last trimester *@emma*. Time is pelting by. The bump's looking good 

Glad to hear lou's doing well *@maggie*. The baby bit is nice but it's great when they get that bit older and their personality starts coming out. Bruno is cute of course but I'd forgotten how tedious this bit is - just pumping milk into them, changing nappies and having them sleep... Jude is very bored with it all I think! I'm sorry you're having such a crappy time with the hospital, it really is unacceptable for you to have to run around chasing people up; like you haven't got enough to do already?!

Well, Bruno will be 5 weeks on Tuesday. I can't believe how fast time is going. He's already at the stage where his eyes are properly open most of the time now although I can't remember at what point he switched from eyes mostly closed to eyes mostly open. He still looks like Jude, if I step back I can see it, but he seems to look more like 'Bruno' now. I'm getting to know him as a person in his own right I suppose. He sleeps much better than Jude, is reliably down for a 4-6 hour stretch by midnight and up every couple of hours otherwise. In the day he is going 3-4 hours between feeds and (the most amazing thing) is having a consistent nap in the mornings!! Jude NEVER did this!! He has the odd few hours where he's either crying or feeding which is a nightmare with Jude. He hates Bay Boono (baby bruno) crying but equally hates me feeding him constantly.

Yes, the Jude thing has been very strange. I've been very sad for him. And me. Really sad. My friend says I'm mourning the exclusive relationship I had with Jude. Simply put, but I was finding it hard to put my finger on it exactly... It's been difficult too with the breastfeeding to find time for Jude. It's properly established now so I'm hoping some clever multitasking will ease the situation (feeding time is reading time or something). Jude's also being a lot more contrary and I have to make a conscious effort to ensure that I'm not just telling him 'no', 'stop' etc. all the time. I have to be really switched on to do the whole 'distraction' thing rather than the telling off thing, especially with juggling the 2 of them... I wasn't expecting it to be this awful actually. But, on the plus side, Jude IS getting better with Bruno all the time and it is so soooooo lovely to see. With each interaction the nice behaviour is getting nicer, gentler. He's still hitting him and accidentally hurting him (like giving him a car by dropping it on his head in his cot) but the spontaneous kisses are more frequent now. He's also kissing me again now after a period of ignoring me in favour of Eve. That was AWFUL, the day I came home from hospital he wouldn't even look me in the face, wouldn't have his bottle with me. I think we're all settling back down into a new groove.

It really has been all go in our house though. Jude was supposed to start preschool last Monday but had an ear infection (which was horrible) so he's starting this Monday instead. And, since Bruno came home we've all been ill with various things. I'm sure this has made everything worse. Sickness, diarrhea, colds, ear infection, now Eve has bronchitis!! What a struggle!! Even Eve's sister came down with a bug while she was here to help when Eve went back to work. Even Bruno is blocked up and coughing, poor love.

Ooh what a moany post!! It sounds like a nightmare, I've painted it all very negatively but it's been amazing too. I am so looking forward to Bruno giggling and responding to Jude, I know Jude will like this too. It's getting better and easier all the time.

Love to everyone xx


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## lucky2010

great to hear how you're getting on *ros*. i love the pic of the boys!!! You sound like you're having a tough time adjusting and getting Jude to adjust... not suprising really with such a life changing event. I bet you're both doing a fab job! Re. expressing: have you tried the Medela Swing pump? I tried others and had no joy but can get 5 oz off each breast with this one!!

Alex has just another bedtime bottle in the dark so fingers crossed we've cracked it (not holding breath but helpful!!)

Hope ember is better gina.

Hope you and adam are well heather.

how is lou maggie? any word on scan date?

hope everyone has had a lovely mothers day. I was so lucky and got a series of photos from a photo shoot we got for Christmas. we have bought 5 and have nearly had to re-mortgage the house to afford them!!!

got to go and finish tea. love rach x


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## nismat

Hi all,
I've been so absent from the boards in this last year - I am constantly amazed at how other parents manage to find time to post   It's hard to believe that it's a year since Toby's arrival (his birthday is this Sunday), it seems both an absolutely age ago, and yet no time at all. So much has happened, and my only regret about it all is that I've been totally rubbish in keeping a proper note of milestones! He's definitely grown into being a little boy now, our baby seems to have well and truly disappeared. I've been getting all nostalgic reading everyone's posts about their younger babies   The really major changes, especially personality-wise, seem to have occurred in the last couple of months since Christmas, especially since he started crawling/pulling up. He is so gorgeous and such fun - although we're also starting to have more instances of him asserting his independence, which can be trying  

Major milestones inasmuch as I can remember them:
First smile - somewhere around 8 weeks I think, he was definitely the last in our NCT group to do so
First bottle feed - approx 3-4 weeks old (karen had been doing regular cup feeds until then)
First rolling over/sitting up - can't remember! 
First family holiday, aged 10 1/2 weeks (flew to Mallorca  ). This was also the point at which I gave up the nipple shields (after leaving them behind accidentally on a day trip out). Breast feeds shortened from 1hr at a time to 15 mins - did wonders for extra sleeping! I also stopped expressing, as I started getting severe breast pain which later turned out to be deep-vein thrush. Nearly gave up breast-feeding several times over the next few weeks as it was so agonising, but managed to grit my teeth and stick with it as I was so determined not to give up. Finally got proper treatment from GP after several visits, having managed to convince them to give me a not-officially-approved-for-breastfeeding-mothers drug (even though it's approved in other countries). 
Moved Toby to his own room at about 4 1/2-5 months, despite having no intentions of doing this until the 6 month mark. Did it in desperation from sleep deprivation/constant waking at every little sniffle/moan! Made life sooo much easier, even though I still had to get up 3-4 times a night. Toby slept through once or twice not long after the move, although it wasn't to last!
Started Toby on solids at 5 1/2 months - he's been a great eater ever since, and went from being a skinny minny to a solid, well-rounded baby very quickly   Zoomed up the weight charts from being under the 50th centile to well over the 75th!
Sleeping through the night finally happened at 7 1/2 months. We literally went overnight from a couple of horrendous weeks of being up hourly all night to consistently sleeping through from roughly 7pm to 6-7am. Not surprisingly, this is also the point at which I started to regain my own identity  
Breastfeeding stopped at 8 months - Toby's choice, not mine! He'd been going through a stage of fighting/messing, then one weekend simply closed his mouth and refused me completely whenever I tried to feed him. I decided not to push the issue too much, even though I wasn't emotionally prepared for him stopping, as I had always felt that I woud rather that he chose to stop than had me force an end to b/fing. It was a bit sad (and still is actually), but bottle feeding him is a lot easier than all the fighting over breast-feeding was. The great side effect of this transition was that Toby also rejected his dummy, so we've never had to go through a battle trying to wean him off that. 
Started clapping at 9 months (just in time for showing off to all and sundry at Christmas!), and also learning how to hide himself when playing peepo with his bath towel (utterly endearing  ).
First two teeth cut (in quick succession) at 9 months. Top front teeth followed within a month, and two more top teeth by 11 months. 
First crawled at 10-10 1/2 months (you'd think that I could remember this, seeing as it's relatively recent!). In many ways, I was hoping that he wouldn't start crawling too soon as all I was worried about was how much baby-proofing we would need to do. What I hadn't considered was how much happier he would be once he was properly mobile, and how much more easily he could entertain himself. This is the point at which it seemed like a much stronger personality emerged. He's now also pulling up all the time, and cruising quite a lot. 
Next big steps will be walking and talking I suppose, as well as proper self-feeding (i.e. learning to load a spoon himself, rather than just using his hands/taking a loaded spoon from us). And he'll also be moving up to doing 2 days a week in nursery from the end of April.

He's so adorable, and has added so much to our lives (even during the severely sleep-deprived stages  ). I simply can't imagine life without him, or remember quite what life was like before he was part of our family. How on earth did we fill our time beforehand - there must have been so much free time (even if it didn't feel like it then)?! We love him so much; I always knew that I wanted children, but I really didn't have any idea just how much it was possible to love your own child; I can now truly understand why people say that they would do anything for their children. 

We're starting to gear up towards ttc a sibling(s) later in the year (it was always the plan that we would start some time not too long after Toby's 1st birthday). Of course, this makes reading about others ttc #2/already with a sibling particularly interesting right now. What Rosypie was saying about mourning her exclusive relationship with Jude now that Bruno is here makes complete sense - it's the only thing holding me back from trying again ASAP, as it will be very sad to lose that special bond with Toby. The past year has made me realise just how lucky I was to be the oldest of my siblings, and to enjoy that special time with my own mother (even if I obviously have absolutely no recollection of it!).

We'll be going straight for IVF/ICSI this time around, although we'll be getting our sibling sperm moved to a local clinic to make treatment easier. I'm totally convinced that if I do get pregnant, it will be with twins, which would be something of a logistical nightmare I should think. I'm certainly having dreams already about being pregnant with two babies! To be honest though, I'd be thrilled with any kind of positive outcome first time around. I dread it not working on our first attempt this time; not sure how we'd cope with that either emotionally or financially, although right now I feel far calmer about the whole prospect of ttc given that we are already lucky enough to have one child. It doesn't mean that we wouldn't be very sad not to ever have more than one though. 

OK, enough wittering on. I'll try and make more effort to be involved on a more regular basis with this thread, I've missed everyone  

Tamsin x


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## ♥JJ1♥

Tamsin so great to hear from you and an up date on Toby's fantastic progress.  Hope he has a fantastic 1st birthday 

L x


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## lucky2010

So good to hear how you're getting on Tamsin, I often think of you and wonder how you are all getting on! Toby shares my little sisters birthday so i will be celebrating at our end of the country on that day too.

going now as an early night calls!!! hi to everyone else and I will do a proper post soon.

Love rach xxx


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## magsandemma

HI all

Gina - Have eventually been able to update piccie,     !

Just a quickie, we are all heading over to ireland to see my folks in april prob the first week, we were thinking that as we will be catching the boat from liverpool, perhaps we might spend a night before or after the trip somewhere as its a long drive from herts to liverpool and the boat is 8hrs, poor emma having to drive as I still cant, so could do with a break in the middle, so we were wondering if any of you girls in or around that area would be up for meeting up??  Will let you know dates when we get it all booked!!

Hi to everyone else hope you are all well!!

Maggie
xx


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## ♥JJ1♥

Maggie- your little lady is so cute!! in her big girl photos.  
L x


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## magsandemma

Oh forgot to say that at last I spoke to Hrefield hospital today about the echo and wait for it we have an appointment for next tuesday, which is excellant, we will feel so much happier when it is all done, Lou is doing fab but it will be so reassurring to know that they have done all the checks on her heart and she couldnt be having it at a better place really, also we have heard from the health visitor about the opprtunity class and they have invited us to their mother and baby group on 17th to meet everyone and they have another baby with downs there at the mo, so it will be great to get things moving, at last we feel like we are getting somewhere!!!!!!
HOORAY

Maggie
xx


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## snagglepat

Hey folks,

*Maggie*, so glad you finally heard from the hospital. I love the new photo of Lou - she is such a cutie! It's great that you've got some good social opportunities coming up too. As for your trip, we're probably a bit far from Liverpool for you but if you fancy stopping in for a cuppa en route up north then give us a yell. 

*Tamsin*, its great to hear from you and to catch up with Toby's milestones. The time really does fly doesn't it? Ember will be 20 weeks tomorrow and I don't know where the time has gone. We were at the baby clinic yesterday to get Ember weighed and there were quite a few babies in for their eight week check. I somehow can't figure how Ember was ever that small, but then can remember her birth like it was yesterday. Time seems all skewed somehow. It's lovely to hear from you again though.

*Rach*, how's the feeding in the dark going? We had a 'bottle to cup' workshop at our bumps and babies group recently and the health visitor suggested that we could just go straight from breast to cup if Ember won't take a bottle. They gave us a freebie three stage beaker-style cup and I bought a doidy cup on their advice too. We haven't tried them yet, we've just been giving them to Ember to play with so she can get used to them. Fingers crossed!

*Ros*, I'm sorry to hear you're finding things so tough, although it sounds as though some of it is gradually getting easier. I think I can understand what you mean about mourning your one-to-one relationship with Jude. At the moment the thought of having another child just feels so wrong, for both Rae and I - we've talked about it a few times now - we just can't imagine doing anything that would so drastically change the fantastic relationship we have with Ember. Given we were planning to have started ttc again by now it's quite a shift, and I'm sure when (or if) we decide to have another the excitement will be tinged with grief.

But then, I'm finding little bits of grief all the time through this parenting journey. Every time Ember does something new or progresses in some way it's wonderful to see, but there's a part of me that's sad to lose the baby she was. Already she's moved on from being willing to fall asleep in arms (at least in any regular way) and I miss that so much. Does anyone else find this?

All is well here. We did go and get Ember's rash checked out but the doctor said it was just a virus and it's all gone now. I was quietly hoping it might be something like german measles so she could get it out the way but no such luck. It did prompt a good discussion in our bumps and babies group though, and we've now all exchanged numbers so that if any of our children gets one of the infectious diseases we can have a gathering so everyone can get it.

I think we might have to start weaning pretty soon. I'd hoped to hold out until six months but for the last week Ember's been drinking me dry at every feed and still looking for more. I did think it'd be just like a growth spurt and my supply would catch up but it doesn't seem to have done so yet and I hate to see her still seeking food when I've none left to give. It's another little thing to mourn - that sole provider role - and its the first of many little steps she'll take to independence. Its wonderful too of course. Bittersweet.

Best wishes to everyone,

Gina. x


----------



## Mable

I completely relate to what you say Gina about the little moments of loss/grief when they leave a stage or moment behind. I am desperately trying to capture it all in diaries/video diaries/photographs to enjoy every moment but time whizzes by. I try to look forward to/enjoy the new stages, and as they get older it is SO enjoyable - language emerging, independence, personality. 

I suppose this awful desire for a 2nd child is in part looking foward to revisiting the baby stages again and remembering Monty at that age. I have all his clothes&toys put away and labelled to be reused and reenjoyed all over again. 

Hello to everyone else - apologies for no other personals, am following everyone's stories and enjoying them.
Mable


----------



## lucky2010

Hi there everyone!!!

I wanted to wait to post properly until I had time to do a decent post.

*Gina*, I totally know what you mean about mourning the passing of the little baby stage but celebrating the developments that are so exciting. I can't remember if I mentioned but we started weaning Alex early, at 17 weeks, but had to put him back on 100% breast milk a couple of weeks ago. He had been sleeping through most nights but got a bit constipated and was then waking every hour in the night clutching his knees to his tummy. I thought it looked like he had stomach-ache so the next day we went back on to breast milk only and he slept for 10.5 hours and has done evry night since!! He had only been having one meal a day, starting of baby rice and moving onto baby rice mixed with vegetable or fruit puree. I think I may have got a bit carried away with steaming and pureeing things and as he was taking anything and everything so enthusiastically I may have gone a bit fast!!! I have now started again more slowly as I am going back to work 2 weeks on Friday and he won't take a bottle or a cup or a beaker so need to be able to get something down him!!!! Let us know how you get on if you do start Ember on solids soon... it is very exciting!!!

*Mags*, Lou is gorgeous!!!! I love the new photo. I hope you enjoy your trip to Ireland. Glad you have geard from the hosp, let us know how it goes (Julie used to work at Harefield in the heart and lung transplant unit!).

*Ros*, how are 'the boys' doing? I hope every day that passes Jude gets more used to Bruno. The age gap you have between the boys is the sort of age gap we are aiming for so it will be fascinating to see how things progress. Let us know how things go... I love reading updates!!!

*Mable*, hello, how are things with you? It's nice when you post here too.

Hi to everyone else. Going now as Julie getting impatient with computer use eating into our evening and I would like a cuddle!!!

love Rach x


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## snagglepat

Hi all,

*Rach*, we're holding off on the weaning now. We were all set to try our first baby rice on Saturday when my 'Mother' magazine dropped onto the doormat. The editorial, that I happened to read over breakfast, was on the timing of weaning and from it I learned that the studies from which the 'wean at 6 months' recommendation comes from were funded by Nestle! So now I have to go and do a load more reading to try and get a better picture of things. She's nearly five months old now so we've got a month in which to figure things out. We have however had great success at getting her to take expressed milk from a doidy cup, so much so that when she's drunk all the milk she chews on the cup until she frustratedly realises there's nothing else to drink in it.

I'm sorry to hear that Alex was getting all constipated with his lovely rice and veg. Baby rice does seem to be white rice. I've never seen a brown rice equivalent but I did wonder if it might cause constipation on its own. Maybe we'll start with some veg instead when we do start....

Ember has now discovered how to scream. She does it with a big grin on her face but it really does sound as though she's being murdered horribly. She's also discovered Digger, and is taking great joy in everything he does. It's lovely. 

*Mable*, we've also stashed all of Ember's little baby stuff away, despite us currently feeling no desire for another child. I suspect it means we both subconsciously know the desire will probably rear its head eventually.

How is everyone else doing? Big hugs all round,

Gina. x


----------



## Mable

Baby rice tip - we made our own baby rice from boiled brown rice, pureed. Can add prunes/apricots if constipated and it makes it nice and sweet. There are some healthy recipes in Suzannah Olivier's 'What should I feed my baby', including lots of ways to use beans for vegetarians. She has the most healthy quinoa porridge for super healthy baby - Monty still has this now for breakfast. 

Makes me all nostalgic for those days. Now Monty feeds himself and conducts little conversations over dinner - mainly about moving vehicles, so a little limited!


----------



## magsandemma

Hi all

Just reading with interest your thoughts and experiences on weaning, scarey that we will be starting this soon!!!!!!!!!

Well thought I would update you all on Lou's scan, been to Hrefield Hospital today and Lou had an ecg and an echo, the cardiologist was very good that we saw and was very good with Lou when he was doing the scan, it went well, they did find a small hole, which they said was 4mm, he said this was on the larger side of normal, but that it was nothing to worry about that all babies have a small hole in the womb that usually heals just after birth he said if it had of been 3mm she would be discharged but as it was slightly bigger he would like to see us in a years time to check that it was healing or getting smaller, so all in all it was good news as he said it shouldnt cause any problems, so one less thing to worry about!!    

Hope you are all doing well, will catch up with personals tomorrow, Lou has been asleep since 7 so gonna do a feed and see how she goes for the night, as last night was the first night that she woke at 3 for a long time, was a shock to the sytem!!!!

Speak soon
Maggie
xx


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## Damelottie

Thats GREAT news Maggie

Well done Lou


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## evelet

Yes good news for you Maggie - hopefully when you go back in a year it will all be fine and you won't have to go back again!

I think we weaned Jude at 5 months but went very very slowly for the first month. I can't remember what baby rice we gave him but the first food we tried was pureed stewed pears. Pears are less acidic than apple and he seemed to like it. We didn't give him anything containing gluten until he was about 8 months and also didn't really give him much meat until he was one. Ros was super organised mummy and made thousands of ice cube trays of various recipes taken from the NCT baby food book and annabel karmel. sadly we are a bit rubbish about the food we give Jude now although he did eat cous cous and chickpeas with tomato and veg sauce for his tea tonight. I just wish I'd never let him have any ketchup! There is an Annable Karmel recipe for home made ketchup so I might try that.

Jude is getting to be a better eater nowadays but he's never been that great at eating. he took to it relatively well at first but really he'd rather be off playing. 

Good Luck with it though. Gina - my older sister didn't properly wean her daughter until she was 10 months. She periodically tried but she just couldn't get the food from the front to the back of her mouth. The health visitor told her that she would ruin her future if she didn't force her to eat   Luckily my sister ignored her and just followed her instincts!


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## magsandemma

Hi all

Just a quick one to say hope you all have a lovely easter and it doesnt get too cold, we are all doing good, Lou was 13lb 1oz on Tues, shes getting so big and time is going so wuick, beginning to worry about having to go back to work, but luckily for me emma doesnt mind keep working full time so that I can just go back for one day a week and then I can do some bank shifts as extra if we need extra cash, I just cant imagine wanting to go back to work full time for a long time, I dont want us both working and paying for childcare when we could be doing things with Lou ourselves, and with the opportunity class, we will get home visits for teaching too, so all good, anyone else thinking about what to do re returning to work 

Right hope all you lovely ladies and your little ones are ok, and tucked up ready for the long weekedn ahead, will try to do some personals soon!!!

Take it easy all

Maggie
xx

PS Gina yeah would be good to pop in for coffee, would be lovely to meet you guys and of course ember, and birmingham is our half way point!!  Will let you know dates when booked, lol.


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## lucky2010

I'm going back to work on Friday and am very worried about it   Alex still won't take a bottle but will drink a bit from a cup and is doing really well with his solids. I am working 3 days a week. Alex will be with childminder 2 days and with Julie on the other day. i wish I didn't have to go back but finances necessitate it  

oh no, alex has woken up so have to go but hi to everyone... heather, alison, gina, maggie, mable, ros and eve, lou, tamsin, jj and anyone else I've not remembered. x x


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## evelet

don't worry about it too much. your childminder will persevere with giving him milk from a cup or bottle (the nursery Jude went to just kept trying and eventually he really took to his bottle- they used a MAM flat teat - too much because we can't wean him off his night time one now and he's 3 in august!!!). She/he will also just give him lots of sips of water and plenty of food with milk mixed in and he'll be fine. he'll feed a LOT when you pick him up and in the mornings though!

Bruno is a very good boy and has been sleeping from 10pm until 5am relatively frequently. He's smiling away at us and enjoys watching Jude lark about. Jude loves him so much already and is very protective of him. He still hugs him a bit TOO HARD a lot of the time and we couldn't leave them in a room together on their own but its getting a lot easier. Jude is now at pre-school 3 mornings per week and is enjoying it very much. He likes the dancing and if he gets upset they distract him with the toy cars and trains. He told us he didn't like the girls though  . 

Its been snowing here today and everything looked really white this morning. its melted now to Jude's great surprise  

I've been thinking about having a get together again now I can imagine us travelling. I don't know where would be a good place to have one really. We'd be more than willing to host but Swithdrawnhorpe isn't really NEAR anyone. Anyone got any ideas? We could arrange to meet anywhere I suppose if we had an idea of numbers. There is a possibility I could host one at my dad's place in central London or my mum's haouse in Ludlow, Shropshire but I don't know it that would be much better than Swithdrawnhorpe for people!

Happy Easter everyone!


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## evelet

if you hadn't already guessed: s****horpe is actually s c u n thorpe.


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## lucky2010

H all,

I'm back to work tomorrow.. aaarrrrggghhhh!!! Alex has been doing his settling in sessions with the childminder this week; 1hr on tues, 2 on wed and 3 today, he has done really well and we have settled on him taking milk from a cup which he seems happy with. I am so nervous about going back, not so much about leaving Alex as he is with Julie tomorrow and all next week, just about remembering how to operate a ventilator!!!! I'm sure it'll come flooding back?!

Sorry for the 'me' post, just needed to vent x x x


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## nickster

Good luck with the return to work Rach - I'm sure you'll be just fine. And it sounds as though Alex will be too (it certainly looks that way from his photo...!).  x


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## Mable

Hope your return to work has gone well, Rach and Alex settled in ok.

Monty will be 2 in a few weeks - can't quite believe where the time has gone. Life is so lovely with him in our lives though. We still can't quite believe how lucky we are to have him - still half expecting to have to give him back or to wake up and it will all have been a lovely dream. I love this time of year because it reminds me of when Monty came into our lives and those wonderful first few months (before the sleep deprivation started to feel like it was going to go on forever!)

Hi to everyone else - is lovely to read about all the developments and everyone's progress.
Mable


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## lucky2010

Hi to all, hope everyone is well and happy. 

All well here, been back at work for two full weeks and it's going well, Alex loves being at the childminder and is managing a reasonable amount of milk from a cup.

love Rach x x


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## Veela

Glad everything's gone well at work, Rach.


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## nismat

Hi all, I'm wondering how those of you with children of Toby's age/older are dealing with discipline? Toby has definitely reached the boundary-testing stage, doing all the classic things of throwing away anything he doesn't want (food/drink/toys/us  ), screaming with frustration the second anything doesn't go his way, starting to bite and pinch etc. And his first word last week was "na" (no).
Karen and I have had different instinctual reactions to dealing with this: I basically try and divert his attention to something else (or show him how to achieve something that he's having trouble with, e.g. turning his walker round), and I am trying to reserve the word "no" for anything that is really dangerous/damaging. Karen has been saying "no" a lot more, although we've now discussed this (with me trying to be as diplomatic as possible and look at it as a joint problem/issue, which it is, rather than saying "I don't think you should be doing it like that). She's now switched to "don't do xxx"/"I don't like you doing xxx", which I feel a lot more comfortable with. She also feels that sometimes we should just put him in his room/play room and just leave him to scream/calm down. So far, we've only really tried this once (last week, on holiday, when we were putting him down for a nap anyway). I agreed to doing it (they were definitely anger cries rather than anything else, and although it wasn't pleasant, it didn't last long, and he really did need to go to sleep. I really wanted to go in and give him a quick cuddle/put him straight back down again though. The biting really started last week on holiday as well (we were in such an child-unsafe environment that we had to do a lot of "no"s and stopping Toby from doing what he wanted a lot (like climbing open marble staircases   ), so he was getting v frustrated), and our friend with whom we were staying (who has 2 grown-up children, and is kind of an honorary granny/auntie figure for Toby) said that we should (gently) bite him back to make him realise that he shouldn't bite us. I felt intensely uncomfortable about this "advice", but given that I was already having some issues with what I felt were her negative comments about various ways in which I parent (although she is largely supportive and is great with Toby in her own way) I did not feel able to confront it. Karen isn't totally against it, but does anyone actually think it could help/tried it themselves? I'm not inclined to try it myself, but what other strategies can I try? 
My biggest issue is Toby pulling my hair/trying to grab my glasses. I tell him to let go (while doing the sign for "open"), and say "please don't do that/leave Mummy's glasses alone", but I'm just not sure what can work at this age. It's certainly tedious having to do it so repeatedly, but I imagine this is nothing compared with what's to come!
So, I suppose that there are 2 questions here really - any tips/ideas on how to deal with the discipline issues given Toby's developmental stage, and how to deal with difference in parenting style without falling out! Any useful books/websites you can recommend?


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## evelet

my approach has always been to say 'No pinching' or whatever he's doing then distract distract distract. I try and distract Jude before he does something (you can always tell by his expression of evil  ) and that can be a great tactic. If he really has a tantrum then there's nothing you can do except ignore him (although some children bang their heads on the floor for attention which is obviously unsafe). When Jude was just two he used to do two things which always got our attention. One was to pour his drink on the floor/himself deliberately. He seems to have grown out of that now (he did it at preschool a few times and we told them to tell him off if they felt it was necessary which may have done the trick). The other was worse and that was to make himself sick by putting  his fingers down his throat. Sounds absolutely awful but apparently its not unheard of! We stopped giving him drinks in open cups unless we were able to heavily supervise and we kept an eye out for the sickmaking and just physically stopped him from putting his fingers in his mouth. 

Those two things which used to be such big issues are small fry compared to what he gets up to now! I got really freaked out about his tantrums and the fact that he keeps hitting other kids when friends come over but we are just trying to calmly manage it all. Again, distraction and firm but short tellings off seemto help. We send him to sit on the step if he's really outrageous and to his bedroom if that doesn't work. I have been reading a book called 123 Magic (i'll take it to work and post it to you tomorrow) which is more for slightly older children but has worked brilliantly for my sister. Its all about setting boundaries in a calm and consistent way without ever losing your temper (easier said than done).

Sorry for the huge massive reply but i really sympathise! Please don't bite Toby back though. He'll just bite you back too. Calm, firm and consistent are what you need to be I think and retaliating, however gently, just seems inconsistent to me (i.e. you want him to stop biting but you are biting him). You sound like you are doing a great job.


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## bagpuss1

Hi Tamsin,

Just thought I would add my two penneth although what Eve has suggested is very similar.

We decided in the early days that NO was quite strong for such a littley but soon realised that this was really the only way of getting Edie to stop doing what she was doing ie playing with the dvd player or climbing on the TV table or pulling the cats tails or throwing her dinner on the floor (ooh I could go on for ever!). 

I think that more than the word that we used it was actually the tone of voice and the short sharp shock that usually stopped her aswell as moving her away and distracting her as much as possible. 

We also have found that using sentences does not work- they do understand alot at this age but dont seem able to follow full sentences that have consequences in. The other day Edie threw her knife and fork across the room (she nearly hit my friends new born). I picked her up off the floor and looked directly at her and said "NO DONT THROW" in a really forceful voice. I have to say this seems to be the way forward with Edie as she just ignores us if we say any more to her.

I seem to remember that I started counting with Edie from a young age. If she did something that we did not want her to, I would say NO in a strong way then say mommy will start counting. If she had not stopped by the time I had counted slowly to 3 I would move her away. It got to the stage that by time I had usually reached 2 she had stopped.

Another marathon reply but just to say that you are doing a brilliant job with Toby- it is so hard to find a consistant approach because they are changing so quickly, I have to keep thinking up different ways and I am sure you will find your way too.

Kerry and Edie


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## Mable

Just to say that there is rather a good thread on Gingerbeer at the moment about terrible 2s with lots of ideas and book suggestions.

Just thought I'd share my experience about the different parenting styles. S veers more towards supernanny and I'm more unconditional parenting, so we have a small gulf to bridge to find a happy medium - it seems to be all we ever talk about in the few hours before bed when we are done with all things Monty. We do have different boundaries (eg S bans going in the shed because of dangerous tools and I say 'shall we go and poke about in the shed' as a treat!), which we don't always realise, interestingly M manages this very well and seems to know what he can do with me and what he can do with her.

We are trying to agree on the global parenting approach to take but I think we'll come to a happy medium through trial and error with our child - and they are all different. I've got her round to the no rewards and punnishment way of thinking, and she has got me into having the confidence to impose more definite boundaries without it damaging him. So I suppose we've found our mix. 

I suppose it feels worth putting all the work in at this stage because this is the foundation of our family life and how we manage him as he grows out of a baby into independence will make him, in part, the person he is.

Don't have experience (yet) of managing biting, hitting, tantrums, although he does pull my glasses off and has broken a pair, so now I have my boundary which is that whatever we are doing stops if he grabs them and he manages to control himself. I was just putting him to bed now and his hand hovered over my glasses about to whip them off and he seemed to remember that our cuddles would stop if he did and managed to not do it - so having to keep repeating this will reduce once the boundary has sunk in. We distract a lot at this stage, M finds transitions difficult and needs lots of distracting out of one activity and into the next - car to home, dinner to bath, up to bed. 

Best wishes everyone


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## nismat

Ooh, great replies everyone, that's all really helpful! I've been following Evelet's terrible twos thread on GB as well - only saw it after I'd posted my message above   

Thanks for the offered book loan Evelet, my mother was recommending that book only the other day (although she also said it's aimed at 2+yrs); I think that my sister has found some of the strategies really helpful in trying to deal with Lewis (2 1/2) who has been very aggressive/violent/generally disruptive the last few months. I'll look forward to reading it   Can't hurt to get ideas at this stage, even if some of the strategies may be more than Toby will comprehend at the moment. 

Especial thanks to Edith for sharing your experience on differing parenting styles, and how you are both managing to find a common path. K quite likes the Supernanny approach, while hoping that if we set boundaries at this stage then we hopefully won't ever reach the extremes of behaviour illustrated in the TV shows! I suppose her approach is probably best described as "firm but fair", which is basically what mine also comes down to, but I'm rather more liberal in how I would approach the "firm" bit. I don't want to be saying "no" all the time, so I prefer to either distract (clearly a key parenting technique!), or to let him have what he wants (which I think Karen sometimes thinks is "giving in" to him, but, on the whole, if it's not something dangerous etc., I think why not?). Our real problem lies in how we to discuss differences in a rational manner - K works such long hours that by the time she's commuted home it's often 9ish, and I'm knackered after a day with Toby and want to head to bed around 10-10.30, so everything gets packed into weekends, and you kind of want it all to be "nice" family time. We're both a bit inclined to get defensive during discussions too! Oh well, I'm sure that we'll work it all out as we go along.


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## Mable

*Recipe* request please- I'd like to bake my own wholegrain bread and would like to know has anyone tried this and if so can they recommend a recipe? Am wondering if Tamsin you have one you could recommend, anyone else too. I'd like to add raisins to it sometimes and other nuts for variation.

Yum yum - getting hungry in advance. 
Mable


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## pem

Hi all you lovely ladies!!

Seems I have a lot to come with Edie-May!! Can't wait for the terrible two's!!! 

I think I wil be more of a supernanny kind of girl, I already have Edie in a feeding/sleeping routine and she sleeps in her own room at night and for lunchtime nap. It seems to suit her really well and has helped with her feeding a huge amount.

You guys sound like you are doing a fab job!! I look forwar to seeking advice  as Edie grows up!!

Emma x


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## nismat

Mable said:


> *Recipe* request please- I'd like to bake my own wholegrain bread and would like to know has anyone tried this and if so can they recommend a recipe? Am wondering if Tamsin you have one you could recommend, anyone else too. I'd like to add raisins to it sometimes and other nuts for variation.
> 
> Yum yum - getting hungry in advance.
> Mable


Mable, I've just realised that I completely forgot to reply to this! Sorry, have you been experimenting in the meantime?

I'll give you a couple of recipes I use, but I'm wondering just what you mean by wholegrain bread? Are you referring to using wholemeal flour, or adding grains to a basic dough, wholemeal or otherwise? If I'm making a wholemeal loaf, I generally use no more than strong 3/4 wholemeal flour, as adding some white flour helps stop the loaf from being too heavy and dense. It's perfectly possible to make an all wholemeal loaf though, just depends what end result you want (and what you're used to eating).

Basic loaf:
750g strong bread flour - say 500g strong wholemeal, plus 250g strong white
2 tsp salt
1 1/2 tsp easy blend yeast
1 tsp sugar (optional)
around 450ml hand-hot water

Mix the dry ingredients together in a large bowl, add about 2/3 of the water and mix to a dough, gradually adding more water as needed until you get a lump of dough that leaves the bowl clean. It's better to add a bit too much water than too little, as you always add extra flour. Knead the dough for about 5 mins, return to the bowl (lightly oiled first), cover with oiled cling film or a clean tea towel and leave to rise until doubled (1 1/2hrs or so). Punch the dough back down, tip out onto the work surface and knead briefly again. If you're going to add seeds/grains/fruit, now is the best time to work them into the dough. Shape the loaf into a ball, or place in a greased loaf tin, cover again and leave to rise again until it is more or less doubled is size and feels soft and pillowy to the touch (about 1 hr). Bake at 220C/gas 7 for 35-45 mins, until the loaf sounds hollow when the base is tapped. Cool before eating.

No-knead bread
This is a recipe by an American writer; you have to start it the day before you want to bake the bread, but it's so little work and tastes fabulous. It's a bit like a sourdough loaf, but without all the effort. It's quite flat though, so not ideal for sandwiches.

500g strong flour (I use about 350g wholemeal, 150g white, or some rye flour in place of part of the wholemeal), plus extra for kneading/dusting
1/4 tsp quick action yeast
1 1/4 tsp salt
about 400ml warm water

Mix all the ingredients in a bowl; the dough will be sticky and shaggy. Cover with cling film and leave to rise/ferment for 12-18hrs at warm room temp. The surface of the dough should be dotted with bubbles. Flour the work surface, turn out the dough, sprinkle wiht a bit more flour (I find it can need quite a bit of flour at this stage) and fold it over on itself once or twice. Cover loosely and rest for 15 mins.
Using just enough flour to stop the dough from sticking, shape into a ball. Generously dust a clean tea towel (cotton, not towelling) with flour/wheatbran/cornmeal. Place the ball of dough on the teatowel, seam side down, and gather up the corners to cover the doug. Leave to rise for 2 hrs, by which time the dough should be more than doubled in size. 
At least 30 mins before the dough is ready, preheat the oven to 220C, gas 7, with a cast-iron or Pyrex casserole dish in the oven. When the dough is ready, carefully remove the pot from the oven. Slide your hand under the towel and turn the dough into the pot (may look a bit messy, but it will be fine). Shake a couple of times to even out the dough, then cover with the lid and bake for 30 mins. Remove the lid and bake for another j15-20 mins until crisp and golden. Cool on a rack.


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## Alison0702

Ha ha I have just read all your posts about discipline. Ooh my life seems so easy at the moment where ll I have to worry about is what to feed him next      I'll be remembering all of this advice though, as I have a sneaky feeling my little boy is going to be a tinker  




He's been on solids for a good month or so now, and his usual pattern goes like this

0530  Wakes for a bottle, takes about 100-150ml
0800  Has fruit porridge
1100  Has around 70-100ml milk
1200  Has food and yoghurt
1500  Has about 70-100ml milk
1600  Has his dinner 
1930  Has about 100ml milk

A lot of the time he doesn't want his evening meal and I don't tend to push it. I always feed for a max of 1/2 hour then stop so it doesnt turn into a mammoth task.
I dont think he is having enough milk personally, as the HV said he should have about a pint a day which is around 500 ml. 
I was thinking I was overfeeding him, but he isnt putting huge amounts of weight on weekly. I usually give him 2 ice cubes worth of puree. Should I be giving more or less? 

I always try to feed him every 4 hours. If he is asleep, should I wake him or leave him? How long to leave him though. I think I might be trying to be to regimented here but your advice would be appreciated.

I'm also going to try him again on water - the last few attempts ended up with him choking on it. His milk is so think as it's loaded with calories, and the thinness of the water gives him a fright I think. So, I've got out the smallest teat and going to try again  


Nismat Have you got any recent pics of Toby? 

Pem Love the newest pic of Edie. She's got loads of hair. Hows things going being a mammy?

Hi to everyone else, hope you're all ok.

I joined slimming world last week, and its my first weigh in at 5pm. Hope I lose weight cos I am going to the pub after the home for an indian...sooooooo naughty.


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## rosypie

Hi Alison. Weaning eh? Such a hot topic. I remember doing it with Jude, it all felt so fraught. It's so easy to get wound up about it all.

From what you've written about the milk, it doesn't sound like he's too far off a pint a day is he? Maybe I'm adding up wrong, or have got my fl oz wrong... to be honest, if he seems happy with what you're doing then I wouldn't worry too much. The pint thing is a guideline but at the end of the day it's pretty arbitrary and it is _just_ a guideline. Some kids will have more or less depending. My mum worked for a paediatrician once who really disagreed with weighing babies and measuring and counting what they eat/drink. He said it just gave mothers something pointless to worry about. Much better to just go on how the child is in himself. It will always become apparent pretty quick if something is amiss.

Like I said, I remember the weaning with Jude and I wasn't especially looking forward to it with Bruno. However, I did hear a really good mantra from another messageboard that I will definitely be bearing in mind this time around; "food for fun, until they're one". Especially when you consider they're still getting the majority of their nutrition from the milk anyway and from 6 to 12 months you just need to get them used to food, to eating, to different flavours, to the custom of sitting round a table with family at various points in the day. That kind of thing. What you said about him having one or two icecubes sounds fine to me as an amount. I'm pretty sure Jude had somewhere between that, depending on his mood. Again, Jude was pretty rubbish and never really got 'into' food like a lot of the other babies we hung out with. Even now he has days when he eats very little, then days when he inhales everything we put in front of him.

As for the sleep thing, it depends on how important routine is to you. If Bruno is asleep, I leave him asleep. If a feed or bedtime is delayed then so be it. He never sleeps for that long in the daytime though, so even a nap close to bedtime doesn't really disturb his night-time sleeping. Even with Jude, mostly if he is asleep we leave him and fit meals in around when he's awake. He's at the point now where he only occasionally has a nap in the daytime.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll get plenty other advice so you can pick and choose the bits that make sense to you. I don't know if there are any considerations you need to make with respect to Christopher's prematurity or whether it's just business as usual for you guys now... so I guess you'll have to pick the advice that best fits in with that if necessary. If his chubby cheeks are anything to go by I'd say you're doing a fine job 

Great to see you proper on the parenting board by the way


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## Alison0702

Cheers Ros....Thanks for your reply, it makes sense really. I like the thought of "food for fun" too cos thats exactly what he thinks it is. He wears most of it which is really quite sweet. He likes to shove his hand in his mouth, which makes him gag - hope I havnt got an anorexic baby  
I'm not going to stress about it, he's putting weight on every week, and is now off his oxygen for 6 hours a day from today    So proud!!!

How's it going with 2 little ones? Is Jude being good with Bruno? Our friends had their 2nd baby when the first was 2 and he was a nightmare. Hitting the baby at every opportunity. As soon as she started to breastfeed, the older one would start to be really naughty as he knew she couldnt just jump up to stop him. He settled after 6 months thank god.


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## magsandemma

HI all

Good reading about weaning, we arent doing too bad I dont think, I have started Lou on her 3 meals a day from today has been on 2 for quite a while now and is starting to wake in the night again so thought [erhaps it was time to move up again, altho wasnt sure how was going to fit it all into the day,    .

Quick question tho, Lou is still having pureed most of the time or mashed, just introducing lumps and she seems to be coping well, I tried to blend up some pasta bolognese the other day and she wasnt really having it, altho she did try a few spoons bless her, I wondered when she should start having meat and how to introduce it as its quite a diff texture to the purees and mash she has been having!!    Also am a bit worried about finger foods, when and what foods are good to start with, I have the AK book but just wonderd how you guys started and got on with it

Sorry must go again, hope you are all well, I do try to keep reading when I get a chance as its lovely to hear how you all doing just dont get much time to post!!!

Was thinking it would be good if we could all arrange a meet up perhaps in the summer months as there is so many of us now and lots of little ones to meet, perhaps we could meet half way somewhere  Any suggestions, we would be happy to travel and book in somewhere for a night??  Anyone else interested in a meet up

Maggie
xx


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## pem

Hey ladies!

Good to hear from you all, everyone seems well and happy!!

Alison- Sounds to me like you are doing a fab job with your little man, I have a little faffy feeder too, HV advises me it is because she was a little early and is still exceptionally tired most of the time! I have the do i wake her, don't i wake her with the words of the SCBU staff ringing in my ears....never let them go longer than 3 or 4 f hours..it's tough but i shall be inspired by you!! Are you using that Pre-Aptamil milk? We had that for the first few weeks and my god the poo's it produces!!! Edie has Nutriprem now, poo's nowhere near as bad! Good luck with slimming world hun, I've still got a revolting belly....eurgh. yakky!!

O, must shoot, edie is crying again, will post more later...would love to meet up

Em x


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## Stalyvegas

Hi Maggie
Sorry I am an interloper on this thread, but I like reading the parenting section....
I found with fingers foods I was terrified DD would swallow/choke on something without me noticing - so I bought a net bag feeder for her when she was 6 months and it was the best invention ever. She never refused anything from it...  they are about a tenner, babies R us, bloomin marvellous etc all do them. Shove whatever fruit/veg/biscuit inside it and they hold it with the chunky handle so its too big to get in their mouths but they get the sensation of the food, the taste and learning about getting food into their mouths without the worry of choking. DD took everything from strawberries, to avocado in it!
Good luck with lumps and meat! 

Hope its ok I posted.
Rach
x


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## Alison0702

Rach (Stalyvegas)

Great advice. I have just looked at them on ebay and think they are fab so am going to get one.

Congrats on the pregnancy too


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## Stalyvegas

Thanks Alison - im the size of a house already!!!!
Christopher has the best cheeks I have ever seen..... I read his story a while ago so its great he is doing so well   

The bags are great - the only downside is cleaning out the slops that are left over, banana turns them a bit brown but you can stick them in the steriliser or dishwasher so it gets rid of germies! 

R
x


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## snagglepat

Hi all,

It's lovely to see some life coming back to this thread! Though I've been as guilty as anyone of neglecting to keep up-to-date recently. The joyful activity of parenting takes precedence. Who'd have thought it?  

We're going through the weaning process too. *Rach* - it's amazing you posted about those little mesh bag things. I'd ordered some from ebay just that morning. We've been trying a combination of pureed stuff and finger foods. I really like the concept of the baby-led-weaning approach, especially since we waited till 6 months to wean. I do struggle with the baby-led approach sometimes though. Ember loves it, but watching her gag on things is just horrible, even though it doesn't seem to bother her and I know she's OK, it's just part of the process of her learning how to manage solid things in her mouth. Initially Ember was happy with both purees and finger foods, taking in some food and making a jolly old mess with the rest whichever way we went each meal, but in the last week if we give it to her on a spoon she's flatly refusing to take it. Even if we give her the spoon she waves it around until all the food has fallen off before putting it in her mouth. So I think she's giving a pretty clear message that she'd like to feed herself, thank you very much! So now the freezer full of purees will have to be used up in other ways I think. 

*Maggie* - some of Ember's favourite finger foods are chunks of cooked carrot, green beans and courgettes, slices of cucumber and tomato and top of the list, strawberries. We recently started to gently introduce wheat and bickiepegs are apparently total heaven, but she doesn't really ingest anything from them so I don't know if they really count. They're great to chew on though and as there's still no sign of any teeth they last her ages (until the dog steals them, but that's a whole other set of fun and games).

Ember also seems to not have figured out that food gets rid of hunger. If she's hungry, the only thing that will do is the breast. This isn't really much of a problem, but at 7 1/2 months I'm beginning to feel it might be nice to be able to leave her for more than 2-3 hours at time if I wanted/needed to. I'm teaching my first natal hypnotherapy class since she was born this weekend and Rae is going to have to come with me to hang around nearby so I can feed her on the breaks. Although she'll take some milk from a cup it's still not a definite thing and its rarely very much. Ah well!

*Alison* - the amounts you're giving Christopher sound fine to me. Ember has never taken more than two ice cubes of puree/mush at a sitting and she's nearly 20lbs. I've no idea how much milk she's taking though so can't offer that as a comparison. If Christopher is growing, at whatever rate seems right for him, is being nicely active some of the time each day and isn't showing any signs of distress then I'm sure he's fine. I'm with *Ros* on the idea that there's too much measuring going on. After all, we're all different shapes and sizes and metabolise at different rates. Why would our babies be any different?

We're not following a routine at all either, so I can't comment on that. Ember usually naps for a good 1-2 hours each day but it can be any time, and she falls asleep naturally between 7 and 9 so we just put her down then and claim back an hour or two of adult time before we hit the sack. We did wake her once or twice when she was very little to get the feeds in, but by the time she was a couple of months old we were confident she'd wake herself when she was hungry. She certainly does that now! She's also sitting up and rolling over so its no longer safe to leave her alone for a second unless she's well hemmed in. It's all fun!

Our house is now on the market, so with luck we'll be moving this summer. I've already been to check out a few baby/toddler groups in Shropshire so Ember has a few little friends ready and waiting for her once we get there. I was lucky. At the first group I went to there were two other women with babies within a month or so of Ember in age. As it happened, they're both also attachment-parenting/washable-nappy-using/co-sleeping/long-term-breastfeeding/baby-wearing types so I was in my element and have a few hopefully soon-to-be friends over there. 

And don't even start talking about the diet thing. I've considered starting a few, but I haven't wound a single one that is OK to do whilst breastfeeding and as I plan to continue to feed Ember for a few years yet I think my belly is going to have to stay the lovely squishy thing it is for a while. It goes well with the big boobs though. At least I'm in some form of balance...

Sending tons of love to you all,

Gina. x


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## nismat

Alison - as requested, here's a picture of Toby - and me too! Just ignore the extra chins....  It's from our recent holiday to Turkey, although you probably wouldn't have guessed the destination from the stormy clouds!










Thank heavens my chin(s) don't look like that all the time; I've been back at Weight Watchers since end of February and have lost a stone now; aiming to try and lose at least another 7lbs or so before doing IVF in July/August. 
@ Gina - WW _is _ a diet that you can follow when breastfeeding - you get an extra Points allowance to cater for the fact that you need more calorie intake in order to make decent breastmilk for your baby. Not that I got back onto WW while I was still breastfeeding - I kept hoping that the breastfeeding=weight loss would kick in at some point for me  but it never did.


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## nismat

RE: weaning, Rosypie definitely has some sensible advice there, and I really like the "food for fun until they're one" philosophy. Whatever amounts of food seem right for your own baby is the "right" amount, it's far better to go on instinct than to follow a rigid plan, as all babies are different. Toby was a hungry baby, and it wasn't long before he could actually manage a whole Weetabix in milk mixed with half a mashed banana for breakfast, the greedy little gobbler! Having said that, he probably has about the same amount of food at mealtimes now as he did at 7-8 months (although he definitely needs snacks between meals now to keep him going). He was below average on the growth charts while solely breastfed, and then he leapt up the charts after starting on solids. I probably was over-feeding him in some senses, but he seemed to want that much food (at least, he never gave me signals that he'd had enough, which supposedly they would). He's a healthy, chunky baby, but not podgy, so I don't worry about it any more.
I think that the growth charts can be a handy way to reassure yourself of what is going on though, although it can be too easy to get hung up on where your child falls percentage-wise. The one we have is based on formula-fed babies from many years back - have the new ones that distinguish between breastfed and (modern) formula fed babies gone into general usage yet? I agree that you don't want to get caught up too much in individual weights etc. but it can be useful to see if your baby is on a steady gain overall, or whether they are starting to drop below their "standard" line (or indeed exceeding it as in Toby's case).

*Maggie*, I don't think that I started Toby on meat until about 8 months or so (hard to remember already), but I just blended it up as part of the purees. Mainly chicken to start with e.g. in chicken and veg casserole with mash, all in together, then minced meat in stuff (which I cooked and then whizzed in the food processor to mince it more finely, a la Annabel Karmel instructions). He took quite a while to get used to lumpier meat though, and still often spits it out unless it's in quite tiny pieces. I think that the stringy texture meat has is often a bit off-putting to them

It took ages for Toby to get used to finger foods - he'd play with them, but they just wouldn't get eaten. I'd say that it's only really in the last couple of months that he's properly got used to feeding himself (with hands this is), in a way that efficiently manages to get the food into his mouth most of the time. There's always a lot of debris at mealtimes though (I let him get gloriously messy) - so much so that I've invested in a home composting system that can take cooked foods! He's always been quite good at wielding a spoon - virtually from the first week on solids he was grabbing it from me and getting it into his mouth. He's yet to learn how to use the spoon to scoop up food himself though - hands are easier, or we play a "swapsie" game with 2 spoons, where I load the spoon, he grabs it (often with such enthusiasm that the food flies off over his shoulder), and gives me back an empty one with the other hand.

Another thought, regarding water; again, it was a long time before Toby would properly drink water at mealtimes (or any time). He just wasn't really interested. I just kept putting his cup on his highchair tray and encouraging him to drink, but he'd often only have 3 or 4 sips at most at each meal. Given his milk intake and the fact that most of his food had a high water content, it wasn't too much of an issue (certainly not a problem in terms of wee/poo production!). Over time though, he's got the hold of picking up the cup himself, and will sometimes now drink half the cup at one go! Toby's cupboard is like the cup cemetery though - many types tried in the quest to get him to drink, but in reality it probably wasn't the cup that was the problem, he just wasn't "ready" to drink from cups yet. We ended up finding that the simplest one (Tommee Tippee 2 handled beaker w flip spout) was the one that worked for him.

One other tip for babies who are up to holding their own food - pear "lollipops": basically you just cut off roughly the top quarter of a ripe pear (unpeeled), complete with stalk, and give it to your child. They can hold the stalk like a lollipop stick and nibble the pear. It looks so cute, and works really well for the baby. It's often easier for them to hold pieces of fruit that haven't been peeled, as it's not as slippery.


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## magsandemma

Hi girls

Thank you all for your tips on weaning, will give them a go.

Nismat  -    Thanks for advise on meat I was a bit worried as HV just said try it now and dont need to puree just cut chicken up and she cant cope with that and doesnt like it either, lol, today we went out for lunch and even tho we dont like too we got lLou a jar as it had less sugar and salt content than the restaurants childrens food!!!  It was a sweet potato and mince pie jar, and she just pucked it back a little while ago, so think we will leave it a bit longer as we have tried chic and beef at home and not too keen. However we all had fish pie and peas last night for dinner and she loved it, so will stick with the fish for now.

Gina  -  Thanks for tips on finger foods, we have tried strawbs, which she loves and melon and a pear which she just shoved in her mouth bless her it was so ripe and juicy she loved it.

As for the water/juice we just put the cup on highchair with each meal and she takes the smallest amount but hoping that she will start to get used to the fact that we have water with meals and increase what she takes.

Right wondering if any of you have any suggestions as Lou is waking in the night again anytime between 2-4 and anything for 30min to an hour I dont get her out of the cot she just rolls around and chats and eventually with her dummy goes back to sleep, this is what she has in a day now

Brekkie - half weetabix and half banana or porridge and fruit
Mid morn - 5oz milk
Lunch - 1.5-2cubes of veg/spud/pasta and yoghurt/fruit
Mid aft - 6oz milk
Dinner -  1.5-2cubes food and fruit
After - 6-7oz milk

Then sometimes she will have another bottle of about 4-5oz if not going to bed til 9ish, however up until a few days ago she was having bottle early morn before brekkie but not interested in that all she seems to want is food, doesnt want the bottle and think she wouldnt be bothered if didnt have to have it again, altho cant get on with a cup just yet to have her milk bless her, the early bottle we dropped cos it went down and down over a few weeks from 5oz to 1oz, so no longer needed, I am just not sure why the ewaking in the night now and if there is anything we can do to improve this, she goes down about 8.30 now and that her til 7.30 with the play in the night in the middle lol.  She doesnt always have fruit after the eve meal and same with lunch doesnt always have pud, should they always have a pudding, one of the HVs told a friedn the other day at clinic that she should always give puds and even give them when they dont eat the meal before, I dont agree with this but wondered what your view on puds where, and any other suggestions would be good.

Hope you girls are all ok and speak soon, Lou prob wake soon as has been asleep to let me type this    

Maggie
xx


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## nismat

Maggie, you're quite right with your instincts on the pud - they definitely don't need to always have it with each main meal, especially when they're starting out on solids. Having said that, I'm a bit obsessed with Toby having fruit with each meal, but as he loves it too, that's fine! But even so, he doesn't always have it (e.g. if I'm feeding him in a hurry!). He doesn't have "pud" all that often - although it depends what you mean by pud of course. Generally he has yogurt at lunchtime, plus some fruit, and just fruit at tea time. Occasionally I break into my larder stash of pots of Ambrosia custard and rice pud at tea time, to give him a change (or if he hasn't had much of his main meal). I always offer him the fruit/pud/yogurt even if he hasn't been interested in the savoury part of the meal. Sometimes he's just not hungry and doesn't want anything, but other days, the coarser savoury food just isn't what he wants, but he'll have something that's easy to eat like yogurt/custard. At this age, I don't believe that they would refuse food just for the hell of it (although they might just not like a certain thing), so I wouldn't remove the chance of something sweet as a "punishment". It's not like I'm giving him the sweet stuff as a reward for eating his main meal, it's just another course. If he's feeling a bit off colour, he sometimes goes for a few days eating nothing much but yogurt and fruit, but it doesn't do him any harm.

As for the sleeping, it's probably just a pattern that Lou's going through for a while, and she'll change it in her own sweet time. Not great for you, but personally I don't think that there's a great deal that you can do to alter your baby's sleep patterns - unless they're ready to change anyway. Toby didn't sleep through the night until he was 8 months old, and he literally went overnight from a totally knackering phase of waking every single hour, to sleeping right through for 11hours. Like a blooming miracle, but it certainly wasn't down to anything we did different.

Equally, with her milk, not wanting the bottle on waking up may well change over time as well. Toby used to need a feed straight away on waking, then he gradually reduced how much he would take first thing, until I worked out that he needed to play/explore for half an hour or so after waking, as he was too excited to greet the new day to want to calmly drink a bottle of milk! Sometimes he'd quite happily wait an hour or so before that first bottle. Now however, he's back to needing milk pretty much as soon as he wakes up, and is pretty cross until he gets it!


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## candygirl

Hello all,

It's been ages since I posted much, so I thought I'd do a bit of an update.  Henry is now nearly 10 months old, and I've been back at work for 2 weeks - I'm full time for now, but hoping not to be for ever.  He is now at a really adorable stage, and smiles and laughs all the time.  He's crawling, (but only backwards!) and just getting to grips with eating finger foods.  He also slept through the night for the first time the night before I went back to work - with a quite impeccable sense of timing.  He hasn't slept through every night since, but it's about 1 in 3 at the moment, which is just so much better than it has been.  We didn't do anything different that night, he just suddenly 'got' how to put himself back to sleep.  Up until then he had been waking at least once for a dummy and needing a night feed about every 3rd night.  He only rarely has a night feed now, but is waking up at 5.30am every day!  Me and DP have been taking it in turns to get up with him now we're both at work.  Neither of us can contemplate the idea of controlled crying, so we're going to carry on as we are for now and hope that the nights he sleeps through become a bit more frequent.  I'm still breastfeeding him in the mornings, but other than that he's on bottles, as I couldn't cope with the idea of expressing at work and getting enough to send with him to nursery.

Wanted to tell you all of a conversation my 4-year-old niece had with her mother this weekend (they were all staying with us).  She said "Is Aunty Candy or Aunty DP Henry's mummy?"  My s-i-l said "They're both Henry's mummies, but he came out of Aunty Candy's tummy" - to which my niece replied "I'd like another mummy too".  So cute!

Hope you're all doing well,

Candy x


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## magsandemma

HI all

Candy  -  Good to hear how your little man is doing, sounds like he is doing just great, hope you sleeping thro nights become more regular, hows it going being back at work?  I am really not looking forward to going back but have cut down to part time so only going back 12hrs a week for first few months as using up some of my annual leave.  What a cute thing your neice said.  Our friends little boy said to me when I was pregnant "Maggie how can you have a baby without a father?" to which emma replied she did have a father we just didnt know him and she would have two mummies instead, so he then said " When are you 2 going to get married then?" hes 5, so funny.

Nismat  -  Yeah the pudding issue is a funny one, but as you say if its mostly fruit then its good for them, we thought we would try the petit filou sweet puddings just a something different to yoghurt or fromage frai, or fruit, but Lou didnt like them, however when I tasted them it was very sweet.  With the milk thing, she just doesnt want it, she has cut herself down to 3 bottles a day now, and I guess we are happy if we can get 16-18oz in aday even tho they say 18-20, cos when they said she should of been on 35oz a day we never got past 24-26oz on a good day, just never been a massive milk drinker, so trying not to stress about it anymore, as she has a good 4oz cows milk on brekkie and water throughout the day.  Hows things with your little ones?  What a fab pic!!

Gina  -  Hows things going with you guys and the lovely Ember?  Are you going back to work soon?  She must be getting big now, I cant believe Lou is just over 7mths, time is just flying by!!

Rach  -  Hows things going with Alex and being back at work now?  

Alison  -  Hows thigns going with you guys, by the sounds of it you have a fab little eater there too.

Hi to everyone else and sorry if I have missed anyone, we have just come back from a lovely week in Hemsby, weather was lovely and Lou seems to sleep a bit too well when on holiday, she did the same when we went to ireland for a week to see my folks, we had to wake her most mornings at about 9, and one morning I had to wake her at 10!!!  Sleeping seems to be back to normal which is good and food is going down a treat, she loves any solids it appears, so hoping she wont be a fussy eater, still a bit weary of the lumps, and she has had a few choking incidents which have ended up in vommit everywhere, so just sticking with thick puree for now, and some finger foods, we can overcome the lumps a bit later, am not sure if it due to the fact that Lou has smaller passages than the average baby altho HVs dont seem to take this into account and keep telling us just to give her bits of chicken etc to chew on, have tended to ignore there advise now as its for the average baby.  Well I must be off again, get Lou some brekkie before we go to opprotunity class this morning, mondays a busy day as have babygroup in the aft as well.  

Maggie
xx

Ps did we every decide if everyone would like to have a get together with the bubbs at some point  And if so is there a date that suits anyone in particular and where would we all like to meet, we dont mind travelling and booking somewhere for a night!!


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## lucky2010

HI there everyone.

I hope everyone is OK. Good to hear updates from a few people. I don't seem to get much chance to post anymore, or even go on the computer at all!!

A quick update on Alex: He now has three teeth, two middle bottom and one middle top, which he is putting to good use ripping up any finger food he can get his hands on (he stole someones sausage at the childminder!!) and biting my nipples!! He is crawling at supersonic speed, pulling up in cot/on sofa/ on coffee table/on my legs etc. He has even started trying to climb up the stairs which is a bit scary as we thought we'd get away with a baby gate only at the top of the stairs for a while!! He is totally adorable, smiley and chatty and seems to love the childminder. He sleeps through most nights still, waking up occasionally for a feed in the middle of the night but there is no chance of him going back to sleep once he wakes up in the morning. There was a time when we could bring him into our bed, change his nappy and I would 'boob' him back to sleep for an hour or so while we slept for a bit longer. nowadays 7am is a lie-in!!! He tends to have two naps a day varying form 40mins to 2 hours and goes to bed between half six and 7. this is a routine which seems to have developed all on it's own and it suits us just fine!!!

Work is going fine, I'm quite enjoying having time to let my 'baby-watching-guard' down!!! Alex just loves the childminder and is coming on leaps and bounds!! Alex weighs 25lbs now, my back is well and truly done-in!!! One of the little girls at the childminders is going around saying that she has two mummies as she was told that Alex did... very cute.

Better go as lots of cleaning to do while Alex is in bed.

Rach


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## Alison0702

I have just got the fright of my life.

I have been building myself up to giving Christopher lumpier foods as he is coming up to 9 months. He's had little pasta stars, cous cous and today after his tea I thought I would try him with cucumber sticks. Well he chewed the tiniest bit off the end and had a look of terror on his face and started to choke then he chucked up the whole of his dinner.

I nearly had a heart attack. I thought he was going to stop breathing and choke to death.

I NEVER want to feed him lumps again  

Has anyone got any advice on what is best to give babies for their first lumps? I thought cucumber was innocent but clearly not! I bought one of those mesh bag things that someone recommended once on here, but it looks kind of minging. However after that episopde I might end up using it for my piece of mind.

  need a tab!


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## lucky2010

Oh no, it's SO stressful when they choke!!!! Alex finds 'slippery' lumps like fruit and slippery veg and salad harder to eat than things like bread sticks and bread/ toast. When he holds stuff that moulds to his hand like bread he just sucks/chews it and manages much better. mango is the worst as it justs slips into his mouth and he chokes.

Keep going with the lumps though as they learn so quickly how to do it. x x x


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## Stalyvegas

Hi Alison

I suggested the mesh bag - I know they can look really disgusting, and they are horrid clean out (especially if they have had banana) but they work really well, honest! 
RachJulie is so right, it can be terrifying but they get used to the lumps really quickly...

I found things like melon and cucumber sounded great but cos they are soft they can bit bits off with their gums and then choke on them, try something like little bits of banana or a peeled orange segment - Christopher should have less trouble if he bits off too much. Also if you are putting pasta in his dinner he should be getting more accustomed to lumps - have you tried moving onto bigger bits in his dinner? I found peas and sweetcorn worked really well as they were bigger than rice/cous cous etc... but Lily could swallow them, also lumpy mashed potato.... And breadsticks were fabulous - I could have bought shares in the company!

Good Luck
Rach
x


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## Alison0702

*Stalyvegas* I am sitting staring at the muchkin mesh bag as I type. I think its the way forward to someone who has suddenly turned into the biggest worryer of all time 
I havnt yet tried him with bigger bits of pasta, think I will wait till he's about 21 
I bought some of those organix rice cakes so he can have a much on them later. I will def get some bread sticks though. He still has really tiny hands so they woould be great for him to hold. He also loves banana so I will try that too. I have just blended some butternut squash within an inch of its life ha ha.. Thanks for replying 

*Rach* See ya tomorrow


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## Stalyvegas

Alison - Lily is now 20 months and happily chews on a lamb chop but I still watch her like a hawk as I am petrified of that choking noise, the hardest thing is trying to not show her that I am panicing! The rice cakes are great as they break up and go all soggy, and she loved the breadsticks - its lovely to see them holding something in their hand that fits  
With bigger lumps of pasta try over cooking it so that its a bit on the soggy side, just in case - then he can feel the texture but not have to chew too much.
Good luck with it, im sure Christopher will continue to amaze you


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## snagglepat

I heard a great tip to help with the gagging thing, and that is to learn what the difference between choking and gagging is. Choking is where the food blocks the airway so they can't breath and it happens quite rarely. Gagging is when a food gets stuck at the back of the child's throat and they don't know how to shift it themselves, so it triggers the gag reflex. They then gag until they it moves back into the mouth - which sometimes involves the bringing up of whatever they've recently eaten. The thing to watch out for is their breathing. If they're gagging, then they'll breath after every few gags - their airway is clear and they'll be fine, if a little sick. Watch out for breathing! Ember has gagged plenty, and it's horrific, but it does get easier to deal with - for both her and me! She's never choked.

We've got round it by cutting up all her food into pretty small pieces, so we can be sure she only ever has an amount in her mouth that she can actually deal with and the gagging has got a lot less. She gagged a lot more when we gave her things she could bite/gnaw chunks off herself as they were often too large for her to deal with well. Things progressed really quickly then as she was very regularly dealing with lumps/solids she she got the knack of how to move them around in her mouth quite quickly. Within a few weeks she stopped gagging almost completely. Now she gets bigger lumps of the softer things she can chew to a pulp like melon, kiwi, mango, bread etc. Harder stuff is still pretty small - cooked carrot, potato, peas broken in half etc. It's worked wonders for her motor control. Now she eats whatever we eat, just chopped up and with her fingers - tonight it was chinese takeaway. No more purees! Yey!

We also used the mesh bags a few times but she seemed more interested in chewing the handle and squishing the food out between her fingers and smearing it over every surface within reach.

Good luck with it *Alison*. It is really frightening, but he, and you, will get there!

Big hugs,

Gina. x


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## evelet

@ Gina - tried to message you but your inbox is full!

We are in Shropshire for a long weekend on 2/3 August and were thinking of maybe meeting up i fyou are free (and anyone else too for that matter!)

Re: weaning - we haven't even started thinking about it much with Bruno yet. We've got a packet o fbaby rice though and did give himsome a few weeks ago. He ate it but it didn't seem worth the hassle. He'll be 6 months soon though and we'll have to get sorted! I expect we'll start with the purees and go from there though.


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## pem

Hi guys!!

No weaning for me yet!! Edie growing at a very slow rate, still only taking about 18-20 oz of milk a dat...phew she makes me stress, dread the weigh-ins!! She is such a tiny little tot, absolutely beautiful though at 9lb 4oz!! Don't think she likes milk much..    Hoping that purees etc are more to her liking!! She is a lovely baby. sleeps 7-7 most nights, laughing, smiling, still struggling with full head control but she is sooooooooooo little she has very little body to hold her head up  . We are really enjoying her!!

Love to everyone and your scrummy little ones!!

Must go and play little red bird!!

Emma xx


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## magsandemma

HI
Just a quickie

Emma  -  Louise was never a big milk drinker on her best days she got up to 24-28oz a day when she was about 5mths but dropped it lots most days, for the last few months she has had about 14-16oz a day but she loves her solids!!  

Sorry Lou shouting try to post later
Maggie
x


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## pem

Thanks Maggie, that is really reassuring, especially when wherever i go with Edie there is babies draining 8oz bottles and bloomin mothers saying 'ooh she is sooooooo small'   . It's great to hear she loves her solids, bring on those purees!!!

Emma x


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## magsandemma

Emma

I know what you mean whenever we go to babygroups and that the others would be getting out there 8oz bottles and I would have my 4 or 5oz bottle, lol, Lou started just below the 25th line and is now above the 50th line, but still now sometimes people say she is small, when I was stressing about milk a few months back I said to one of the hv that lou was supposed to be having 18-21oz now as she is on three meals a day, she said that is the textbook amount but Lou is an individual, most sensible thing I have heard from a hv I must say.  I hope that edie is well, how mush is she taking in a day, I also used to give Lou her bottle as she was dozing as this was the easiest time, even sometimes now IO feed her a botle in her sleep to get it in.

got to go again
maggie
xx


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## pem

Hi Maggie,

Edie takes anything from 17 - 20 oz in 24 hours, she started off at just over the 50th percentile and is now dipping below the 9th, that be why i  worry i guess!! The HV etc is not too concerned, I have to take her for weekly weighs and today is 'weigh day'. God, I hate weigh day, she only put on just 2oz last week, she is soo tiny, really slimline, barely an oz of fat to be seen!!! But totally scrummy, she is very healthy, bright eyed and has wet/dirty nappies!! Just teeny!!

thanks for your advice, it is reassuring!!

Emma x


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## rosypie

bruno's only around the 9th percentile and no-one's really mentioned it at the clinic. try not to fret she's obviously fine as she's gaining weight. jude also went from 50th to 25th to 9th and now that he's nearly 3 we have no idea how he compares size wise and nobody cares of course. you know whether your baby is fine in herself and that's the important thing. xx


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## pem

Thanx Rosy, everyone makes such a big deal about her weight cus she lost so much in hospital but you are right I DO know that she is fine and well and lovely!!


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## candygirl

How is everyone going?  

We're having a rough time at the moment - because Henry has got measles    He's been ill for over a week now and has developed diarrhoea as well as a complication.  Today he only managed 7oz of fluid in total and he hasn't eaten any food for 4 days now.  He's also lost 2lb in weight, which is nearly 10% of his body weight   We took him to the GP today who said he's ok, but they want to see him tomorrow to check on his progress.  He's been crying almost constantly, and been very clingy over the last few days - it's heartbreaking to see.

He wasn't due to have the MMR for another 3 months, so it's really upsetting that he's developed measles now.  And I've been worrying myself to death looking up all the possible complications on the internet.

Sorry to whinge, I hope everyone else is ok.

Candy x


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## magsandemma

Hi 

Candy  -  Sorry to hear that Henry isnt doing too well at the mo, bless him having measles, I hope that he starts picking up on his fluids again soon, and that he gets a bit more settled, it must be awful for you guys to have to watch, especially when you cant do much, but am sure hes liking lots of cuddles, hope hes feeling better soon.

Emma  -  Hows Edie doing, you still having to do dreaded weekly weigh ins?  Hope you girls all well.

Well just a quickie as its one handed typing which hurts after bit lol, well we doing well, Lou still desperate to crawl but cant get around the round by various means now bless her.  Well I am back at work tomorrow which I am dreading but hey ho its got to be done, but its the long hrs too as will leave at 7.30 and home at 8.30!!  And am working sun this week too, oh dear the thought of it!!! But it will be good for Lou and Emma to have more time together without me I suppose, and I know Emma is looking forward to it.

Right must be off.

Oh we were thinking of heading to Liverpool at the end of the month for a few nights to catch up with some friends and just get away for bit, so if any of you girls are that way and fancy meeting would be good!!

Maggie
xx


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## lucky2010

Candy, How is Henry? Hope he's feeling much better.

Rach x


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## pem

Hi all!

Candy - how is little Henry?? Hope he is feeling better, how horrible for you all, lts of  .

Maggie - How has work been  Edie is doing much better, weigh-in's have relaxed, her digestion seems to be improving all the time and she is taking a few ounces more!

Hi Rach!!

Well, all is well here, Edie still sleeping well, think she has started to teeth a little and her head control is improving!! It is going to be all change in our house as DP has decided to go for nurse training and has been accepted at the local uni, I'm really proud of her and i think she will really enjoy it.

Hope all mummies and babies are doing well,

Em and Edie xx


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## candygirl

Henry's much better - thanks everyone.  He's back to his cheery self and is almost back up to his fighting weight again (although to do that he's been waking up for night feeds again for the last few days).  I'm so relieved that he's ok.

Maggie - good luck back at work.  I found the first week really hard, but now it feels like I've never been away.  And it is quite nice having some adult conversation!

Em - so pleased Edie's weight isn't a concern anymore.  It's good to have one less thing to worry about.

Hi Rach - how are you all?

Hi to everyone else - I know I don't post much, but I have been following how everyone's doing and it's lovely to follow all the babies progress.

Candy x


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## rosypie

no books to recommend but it sounds exactly like jude was a while ago. he was sooo hitty at one point we thought he'd never stop.

i don't think it's anything sinister. it's hard to do but if you try and clear your brain of all the reasons why you shouldn't hit someone then it's probably fun to do a bit of slapping. jude was always so much worse at his friend edward's house. we realised it was because ed's a real screamer, jude got SUCH a reaction from him for the slightest thing. his mum called it his 'show cry'. anyway jude was about the same age then as monty is too and he's so much better now

I'm sure it's a natural instinct thing though, rather than a learned or copied thing.


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## cazinge

For all those not on **, if you want to see our cp photos, you can go to

www.inthepinkphotography.com then click on view photos and enter WN5VV6 under event code to see our photos,

Hope everyone is well

Caz x


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## mintyfaglady

Great photos Caz! Looks like you had a fantastic day. Congrats again and thanks for sharing - I love a good wedding!


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## magsandemma

Hi allJust a quickie while I have a chance
Rachjulie   -   Just noticed onyour signature you guys are going to try again next yr for no 2, we also hoping to try again at the end of summer next yr, if funds allow.Gina   -   Wow Ember is one tomorrow, happy birthday Ember, have you got any big plans for her birthday??   How is things going with you guys??Emma   -   Glad things with Edie are much better re wieght, Lou has lost weight twice in the last 2 months of weighing, so was advised to give her unlimited snacks!!?!!  How rediculous, anyhow we will see how we get on next week, keep getting her weighed as we want the next size carseat and the mothercare scales broken, lol.   Work so so, I jsut dont want to be there, but its so busy and that the day passes quickly, but hard being out of the house for nearly 13.5hrs!!Caz   -   Looked at your pics and they look fab, looks like you had a fab day!!


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## magsandemma

Weel dont know what happened there my post all scrunched up into one and then disappeared, how bizarre, probably just me being overtired, lol!!Mable   -   Hope this stage passes soon with monty!!  DO you think he will be ok about having bro or sis, probably be quite excited I should imagine.Well sitting here not really wanting to go to bed as we moved Lous cot into her own room, and thinking that our room looks quite empty now, and feeling sad that I wont just be able to look over to her in the night, but it was time to try to get her into a better routine and we were disturbing her getting up etc, as we get up early for work, just want to cry!!   I am sure she will be fine, what did your guys do when little ones moved into own room about monitor etc, not sure whjether to put it on or not I mean she is just accross the hall, not that I will sleep much tonight I shoudl imagine anyway!!Right must be off, gonna go sit in the rocking chair in Lous room before bed.Night allSpeak sooMaggiexx


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## leoaimee

hi Mable

i wanted to reccomend this book, 'Why love matters' by sue Gerhart. its not a parenting manuel in anyway it is a book my mum had for psychotherapy msc reading list and i read it well i was back in the uk getting basted in augusut. it is an amazing book which is easy to read and not too academic outlining how the brain develops and the parents role at regulating emotion for the child. it draws together alot of scientific research from neuroscanning, behavioural psychology, psychotherapy and medicine and is a very intersting read. i would have thought perfect for all parents and anyone who works with children.

i hope you would find it intesesting too.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Love-Matters-Affection-Shapes/dp/1583918175/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224752109&sr=1-1

magsandemma - hope the move trasnfer is going ok.

candygirl - really gald henry is ok now

love to everyone!

aimeex


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## lucky2010

I've not breastfed Alex since Friday morning.... early days but I'm hoping he'soff the boob now!!! He's walking now too which is very exciting!!!

hope everyone else ok x


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## leoaimee

wow two milestones!  congratulations!


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## Damelottie

WOW - can't believe he's walking. WHERE has that time flown since he was born?


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## TerriWW

Hi I'm still on catch up with the posts but just saw yours mable about monty hitting. I think this is really very normal - especially for boys.

Angus change as he approached 3 (maybe monty is just a bit earlier) he became much more physical in his play and would hit us. The same as monty - almost like it's a joke. I know that around 3 boys undergo a testosterone surge and this makes there behaviour more physical. I think you have to allow them to release this some how but obviously draw a firm line at no hitting. Angus bounces around the sofa and jumps around and we play wrestle with him sometimes to try and give him a release for this physical side of things but as soon as he hits or hurts we're very firm with in saying no. Definitely nothing to worry about - all very normal I think.

Have you read the book 'Raising Boys' by oooo.. I've forgotton his name now.. steven something I think - Biddulph maybe or I might have made that up. You'll find it on amazon anyway. I bought this as soon as I knew I was having a boy and some of it is very interesting and useful. I always thought children were children and gender differences appeared later but now I believe there are differences from much earlier.

Terri


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## leoaimee

wow mable thats great you are helping monty to express his feelings in words. thats kind of what the book i suggested is about really, helping the baby and the toddler accept and express their feelings. it doesnt talk about how to do that just that its the principle for good health (mental and physical) and gives all the back up evidence from the research.

no experience of introducing a sibling, although the anecdotal family story when my sister was born i was 15 months old, and i was so furious i ripped my dolls head off and through it down the stairs when they brought her home!!  in restrospect i think my mum would say that she tried to rush the transition i had to make a bit too much. but i was alot younger than monty though!

i was reading a whole other thread about people's experience of telling the older one about the new one. there was lots about making a real fuss about the older one, and when the older one is introduced the mummy (birth mummy in our case) shouldnt be holding the new baby. lots of people seemed to buy a gift for the older one. and lots of people also suggested that when visitors come to meet the baby the older one introduces him or her so they feel their new relationship is important.

i guess it would be hard to imagine having a brother or sister in the tummy. although my mum also says that when she was pregnant with my sister i told her i remembered being a fish in her tummy. (i was a young talker)

so maybe monty might remember?

i seem to remember someone somewhere recommending this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1841210684/ref=sib_rdr_dp

i had another scan today ... Speck had grown so much in a week!! amazing!

will you be findng out if you are having another boy or a girl with this scan if at all?

ax

 /links


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## leoaimee

Hi Mable

i thought that gibraltar followed the NHS with their process.  i saw the consultant obstratrician yesterday which seemed like a COMPLETE waste of time.  she jsut read the notes the midwife had made and said 'youre healthy, you dont drink, smoke, take recreational drugs, not on any medication' thats it.  then she scanned me.  and that was that.  there was also a support memeber of staff there and i thought what a waster of time and money that was.  but it was nice to see speck again, altough do the babies want to be looked at soo much i dont know?

well be sure to let us know if you do cave with the scan today.

gaby and her family have no patience and so we will end up finding out but if it was just up to me we wouldnt.

ax


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## leoaimee

so did you tell monty?  sorry didnt quite get that?

was the scan lovely?

what is your boy;s name?  or is it secret?

good job not caving with the gender thingame.

(ps still trying to think of a good story idea ...)

ax


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## evelet

@Mable - there's not a great deal you can do to really introduce Monty to the idea of having a sibling. Jude was almost exactly 2 and a half when Bruno was born and he didn't talk LOADS so didn't express his feelings particularly well verbally. His reaction when I took him to see Ros in hospital after Bruno was born was extremely painful for both ros and I - not because he had a bad reaction (he didn't at all) just because he was so tentative and unsure and kind of confused. Watching him cope with the transition was agonising - I think we were both channelling his pain far too much really. 

Ros drew pictures of a baby in her pregant tummy for him which helped a bit. She also drew pics and discussed how we were going to be a bigger family with her, me, Jude and baby in her tummy (as if her bump were see through if you know what i mean!). We also talked a lot about him being a big brother, how he would be able to share things with the baby and how he would be able to help us look after it. We didn't say he would be able to play with the baby because frankly he still can't exactly play with Bruno and its a long time to wait for 'proper' playing together so we thought it would confuse. My older sister gave me a book called 'Sibling Rivalry' which I avidly read before the birth and we just tried to always always always put Jude first in the queue for our attention. Babies need physical attention but actually its possible to feed/change a baby whilst reading to your toddler and that's really worth while in the long run (although a bit of a juggle). Best piece of advice we got was from my mum 'Feeding time is reading time'


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## starrysky

Merry Christmas Everyone

Think of you all often

Heather, Jo and Adam

PS He made it on to Paul O Gradys birthday mug which was very exciting until he said Happy Birthday from mum and dad. Innocent mistake though as the email had been sent in by grandparents who had said happy birthday from them.Then it had got changed somehow.

Very exciting though!!

Adam has "adopted" our friends dad as "papa" quite out of the blue, nobody we know uses  the name papa so we dont know wherehe got this from. I remember Monty calling everyone daddy for a  while didnt he?


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## leoaimee

was that on friday?  i saw it!!  and i never watch paul ogrady i dont get home in time.

congrats!  shame about the mummy and daddy thing.

aimee


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## leoaimee

i posted this on the general chit chat thread ... but was wondering if anyone had found a two mummies baby book?

love aimeex


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## bagpuss1

Hi Guys,

I wanted to pop on to wish everyone a wonderful new year, Sorry there are no personals.

Things here are okay, it has been a difficult Christmas, but satisfying that I can actually manage to do this single parent thing and keep sane. Helen still sees Edie for three days and two nights per week and I miss her like crazy when she is not with me. Edie has, as always remained well adjusted and seems to have coped well with everything that has happened. 

It is Edies 3rd birthday tomorrow and Whoopee, I get to spend the day with the woman who broke my heart- not something to particularly look forward to but I am determind to carry on for Edie. I still really have not much of a clue why Helen left- I suppose after 4 months if I dont know now- I will never really know.

Anyway- enough doom and gloom- heres to a better 2009!!!!

Love to everyone,
Kerry and Edie


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## leoaimee

hay bagpuss - its good to hear from you honey.  you have been on my mind in your absence from FF.  really hope 2009 brings more cheer for you.  good luck with edies birthday.


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## snagglepat

Hi all,

Lovely to hear from you again *Bagpuss*. I hope that yesterday went as well as possible, given the circumstances. I find it hard to believe that it's been three years! Time really does fly.

All is well here, and we're discovering the joys of parenting a toddler. We're still not having the best sleep experience so are about to embark on a programme of sleep training, Baby Whisperer style. We'll kick off next weekend after we get back from a little holiday. We're going to Center Parcs in the Lake District with some of my family and a few friends for my 30th birthday. We've got a fancy lodge with a sauna and a hot tub so I intend to spend at least some of the day itself basking in the hot tub with a glass of champagne. 

We've also decided that it's time to look at getting Ember into nursery for a few half days a week. She's such a social little thing that it feels like something she'd get a lot out of and we've found a fabulous nursery round the corner that a few of her friends already go to. It'll give me the chance to do a bit more freelance work again too (which I'll need to do to pay for the nursery) and I'm definitely ready for a bit of non-mum time. It feels like the first step in a process that will hopefully end up with us both working and parenting part-time which was always our eventual goal.

And Ember is doing great. She's still not in any way interested in walking, but can crawl at super-sonic speed and climb up anything she fancies so I don't think she's felt the need yet. She's also chatting away with more words appearing all the time. This week it's been 'more' - normally used in reference to yogurt-coated raisins. 

That's us, in a nut-shell. How are the rest of you doing?

Best wishes to all,

Gina. x


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## leoaimee

hi gina - 

lovely to hear little embers update, we spend christmas and new year with our nephew who is 16 months, isnt it the cutest age.  he is saying one or two words.  mostly shoes!! he loves his shoes.  and he says no.  what im staggered about is how he communicates so effectively without words!!

centre parks sounds really fun.  and good luck with the sleep training baby whisper style!  

sounds great that youre thinking of working away from the home and ember will get some more social time at nursery.

love aimeex


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## RachandSue

Hello everyone,

Just a quick not sorry no personals but Madison has just woke up as I have put finger to keyboard! Happy New Year to you all! I tried to update piccie but it wouldn't let me, I'll have a look again later. We hope you are all well and have enjoyed the festivities. Madison is such a handful now walking, climbing and chatting all gobbledigoop with the odd english word like "star and please!" oh and "No" is a big favourite can't think why? Anyway better go before she starts screaming. Love to you all

Rach & Sue oh and of course Madison
xxx


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## magsandemma

Hi all

Have been reading lots but not posted for a while I dont think, we have not had the best week, after babygroup on Monday Lou started vommitting which was then closely followed byt diarrhoea over night on monday, and then all day tues could not get enough fluid in and then wed morn we ended up taking her to a and e where they also agreed she was dehydrated and checked her blood sugar level which was also low, but she was refusing to take any fuid bless her, so she ended up having to have a ng tube down her nose for feeding her with dioralyte, however after a few doses down there she got a little bit of energy back and ripped it out, little monkey but we were back to refusing any oral fluid so had to have another one put down which she managed to keep in under close eye, lol, it was justhorrible tho as she had no energy was not interested in anything and just could not even hold her head up properly love her, however after managing to get some fluids down her orally yesturday they let us bring her home last night, so thankfully we are now all home together again, but she is still not right and not taking much in love her, just so sleepy so we are just back to bottles of any fluid we can get in at the mo, so she has viral gastroenteritis.  It is lovely now that we are at least getting a smile and some chatter after a few days with nothing.  So hoping we are on the road out of it now, fingers crossed, hopefully in a few days we will be back to eating and have lots of energy again and get some weight back on as she lost a pound in 2 days!!  

Hoping no other littlies get this bug as its horrible, how is everyone else doing??

We would be up for an ff meet up at some point, I saw it mentioned on other thread, not sure could cope with camping at the minute tho it does sound fab, lol.

Speak soon

Maggie
xx


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## leoaimee

hay maggie

so sorry to hear about your poorly LO ... so horrid.  my nephew got tonsilitis (age 9 months) on holiday with us, he was all limp and poorly and it was so sad.



all good with me and our bump ... reached the half way milestone.  i keep just wondering what happens when she gets here ... i feel a bit at a loss about what our LO will wear 0-3 m onths during the hight of summer. not much i guess.  and whether its just gonna be too hot for her.  my sister says babies have to be kept between 16 and 20 degrees and that just inst possible here!


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## rosypie

just a vest will be fine. you can tell if your baby is too hot - they cry etc. otherwise lots of fluids (breast is best and all that  ) and maybe get advice from other gibraltar mums? They must have ways of dealing with the heat. 

you can get really cute shortie romper suits in some shops though too


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## pem

Hey aimee - I took Edie to Lanzarote when she was 6 months old and she had on nothing but sleeveless vests, just a nappy or those shortie rompers that Ros mentions.. my sis had her first in Zimbabwe and he had either just his nappy (terries!!) or he was sat in the washing up bowl full of water


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## rosypie

aww, i remember when jude was tiny so well. it was august and boiling in the hospital. his legs looked like little pieces of string hanging down from his baggy-as-anything-vest...


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## leoaimee

thanks rosypie - had  a chat with my friend who had two summer babies, and she said they just dont wear much!  so i think we better not buy any more clothes, except for vests with no sleeves!! 

we had bought summer grow bags but she thought that it might be too hot in july and august for a grow bag ... but maybe september and october.

pem - i think the bucket of water sounds like a good plan!

axxx


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## TerriWW

Angus was born end of june 05 and we had a heatwave! What clothes to put him in didn't turn out to be such a problem ie very little but comforting him in that heat was hard some days. eg if he was crying and I'd cuddle him he'd get too hot and that would upset him more (I would over heat too). Plus we were never able to swaddle him to help settle him. He was a baby who woke often and I would really have liked to try this as it's supposed to help settle most babies.

Not trying to bring you bad news - just trying to say that what to put her in may not be the issue - cuddling for comfort may just overheat her and make her more unhappy - that may be a problem on really hot days. Would you be able to get an air con unit so you can at least keep one room cool. I actually slept on the sofa in the lounge a couple of nights with angus (him in his moses basket) as it was the coolest place in the house.

Terri


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## leoaimee

hi terri 

thanks for responding ... i know my sister had such problems last august with her baby in the hot weather in england and he was coming up to one!  i would have thought that a new born would be harder.

the only thing that consoles me is that this is normal weather in spain and it cant be that all babies born in summer in spain find the heat distressing cos no one has said, 'oh dear, a new-born in the SUMMER!!!' shock horror.

during july and august we sleep naked and with only a sheet, and i have been known to get into bed wet fromo a shower to keep cool in the real heat.

we have ceiling fans ... but whether that would be uncomfortable for her i dont know.  we could think about getting a portable air con unit for her bedroom.  the bed room she would sleep in is the coolest and we are planning to get external blinds to keep even more sun out.

i see what you mean terri about the cuddling being a problem!  cos me and gabs dont cuddle in our sleep in the hight of summer its too hot!!

i guess that as she will be born at the end of may she will get used to it gradually getting warmer throughout the months.

this is the average min and max temp for each month and the record min and max for each month:


May 15	23	8	31	
June 18	25	14	33	
July 20	28	14	38	
Aug 21	29	14	37	

aimeexxx


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## TerriWW

It does seem logical that there are a lot of babies born in hot countries in the summer and they seem to manage! I'm not sure what they do though about the cuddling thing - I guess it depends on the baby too. Maybe keep the air con unit idea in mind so that if it does appear that the heat is causing you and baby problems, you have an option. As for the ceiling fan - I know they suggest you keep babies out of drafts but I would imagine that doesn't count as a breeze in that heat would be heaven!

I think you just have to keep an eye there being a strong blow of air directly at her face - or anything like that but otherwise should be fine.

I'm due 12th May this time which should give baby girl a month or two before any really hot weather over here (if we get any at all!). Which is much better than 30th June with angus where he was born straight into the sweltering heat! Mind you it is nice having a spring/summer baby - at least you have more energy and life in the summer (well I do) and you can get out and about more. I would imagine it's not so nice being stuck in with a very small baby in the bad weather in winter.

Terri


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## leoaimee

yes thats what i was wondering about the fan, whether it would bother her being directly over head ... but i guess we will have to see.  

i was talking to gabs about my heat worries, and we think we will look into air con units.

totally agree about it being easier to get out and about in the summer with the good weather.  this area comes alive in the summer, in away that is kind of hard to imagine without living here.  there is a whole different rythmn to the seasons.  although the heat can be really oppresive sometimes.  

the other major difference in spain to england is the bed time thing, children here go to bed really really late.  and they dont seem to get tied.  i have inquired to the validity of sietsas or afternoon naps and apparently they dont have them.  but maybe a bit of down time in the afternoon.

everything in spain kind of happens later here.  in the summer people dont eat till 9  -10 oclock at night!  i guess just because its cooler.  and also people stay at the beach till 7 or 8 in the evening so it shunts everything forward.

my nephew was born end of august and i think my sister found it hard not being able to go the park because of the bad weather over the first winter.

our babies are going to be really close in age terri!  only a couple of weeks tops!

ax


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## Alison0702

Hi

Hope you're all ok.

Christopher had his 12 months injections yesterday and one of his legs has a lump on it where the injection was. I rand the docs and they said it was normal and to keep an eye on it and it should go away in the next couple of days.
Has anyone elses little one had this after their injections?

Alison


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## magsandemma

HI alison

Bless your little man, we have not had this happen but I have heard of it happening where it causes inflammation around the area, I have seen it on adults and it does usually go down in a few days, so I hope that it setles soon for him.  How are you keeping?

Maggie


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## snagglepat

Hi Alison,

I can't help with your vaccine question I'm afraid - we've chosen not to vaccinate at all so have no experiences to draw on but I do hope that it heals up soon. I know from the research we did when we were making our vaccination decision that localised reactions are very common and they do usually sort themselves out after a short while. It's worth mentioning it to your doctor, if for no other reason than getting it recorded as a reaction statistic,

Big hugs,

Gina x


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## ♥JJ1♥

Allsion I have no experience from my own child, but am a paeds nurse and it is possible to get lumps, but maybe just give your HV a call and ask her to him, as you can get localised infections/swelling cellulitis but it is probably too soon for that.  

Take care
L x


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## pem

Hey Alison,

Edie has had quite large swellings after most of her injections, apart from the 2nd lot, I have always assumed it is because her legs are so slimline, the swellings have been sensitive to the touch and quite firm to touch also but they have always gone after 3-5 days and have never seemed to bother her.. hope all else is well

love
Em n edie x


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## TerriWW

I seem to remember angus having this after one injection - it went down within a day or so I think. It was nothing to worry about. Just keep and eye on him


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