# Poor Responder....part 4



## Rachel (Mar 10, 2004)

New home

Lots of love and luck to you all xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Whoo-hoo! here I am - first to post!

Where is everyone?

xxx


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## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

I'm here Miranda!

Just lost my last posting!

Will do it now!

Odette x


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## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

Hi Girls

Just returned from Hammersmith - had to have blood test  - knew it was going to be negative.  

As an NHS patient, will have to wait until Sept for follow up so will pay £160 for private consultation on the 26th June 

Done my crying now but I'm not giving up  and arranging things right now either for Hammersmith or IVI Barcelona.

Much love to ALL

Odette xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Good on you, Odette!

Hopefully either of those will give you a better chance and it'll work this time. Blinking consultations! If I charged that much for half an hour of my time I'd have no need to worry about the cost of tx.  

Let me know how you find Barcelona - I'd be v interested to know.

xx


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## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

Will do Miranda

Big Hugs  to you and everyone who needs one right now!

Odettexxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi Odette, glad you are going for it again lol Merse xxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi Lovies!  
Merse - good luck hun    I hope you will come away feeling really positive and be doing banana dances  
Kerry - sorry the witch has arrived   Its such a cruel time.  Glad you have got your flights.  Its hot in the Midlands - where are your family again?  It will be so good for you to spend time with them.
Odette - plan sounds good    I think follow up should be included after all they don't start charging you for your first scan if you get pregnant do they?  
Mirra - hello hun - don't know if I am coasting   Hope they are still growing.  (.)(.) are feeling big (well its all relative!) and tingly nips today - is that oestrogen??  
Laura - job in Derby sounds good (may have nosey parkered that on your other thread!   )  A change will do you good.  Is monday night another wine night or do you save yourself for weekends?  
Rooz - how many pill days left now?  Not many?  You reached C cup yet?  
Went to work today but I was awake at 4am not particularly worrying about anything but I think I know what's on my mind.  Its hard to get things out of your head.  Still have normal day off tomorrow and Wed I cancelled a course so another sneaky day off - gonna have some well deserved recovery time    Next scan tomorrow at 1230  
Off for my tea now  
Nicks


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

hi lassies,

Nicks, great news on follies. Go girl! You must be v chuffed with 6 on one side, that's a decent number isn't it? If the left hand one/s catch up you may evevn get close to double digits - i'm afraid that would definitely warrant throwing you off the P.R thread!!    Hope tomorrow's scan brings more good news and you have a bit of time now to completely shake off those lurgies and get fighting fit for EC.

Merse, i've been thinking about you this pm -  as the others were saying tho', it really doesn't matter too much what the Wessex say given you're going to be a Lister girlie soon, so don't get too worried by anything if you can help it. Knowing them they'll probably just say whst they said to me - ie. up the drugs next time around and see what happens. That's where they're weak i think - no ovarian reserve tests or anything of that ilk, just a token FSH when they remember to do it! Hope they come back with a better refund deal as well... 

Mirra, i'm impressed you're so green fingered - we saw signs up in villages near us for open days, hadn't realised it's a nationwide event! DH and i were joikng about opening ours up and just seeing people's faces, 'cos it's such a pathetic mess!! Gardening (the weeny bit i do occasional;ly!) is therapeutic tho' isn't it, so probably a great thing to be doing right now. Hope AF isn't being too wicked for you - i agree, she is so cruel. 

KJ, bet you can't wait to get back home to see your folks... it must be incredibly hard at times like these when they're not about. Something to gee you along this week anyway..  Your vomit story made me laugh by the way - how delightful!! (worse thing is puking into your hair and smelling it the next morning..sorry, that's gross)

Odette, glad you're keepin your chin up too. Good you't have to wait long at all for next appt if you're going private. I take it that's at the Hammersmith?? Personally, i think Barcelona sounds like a tempting option - i liked the look of the Institut Marques but i think i mixed that one up with IVI - i now realise IM only does donor treatments wheras IVI does everything by the looks of it. IVI give their success rate as 90% over 4 attempts so are obviously up there with the better clinics. And cmbined tx and holiday could def. be a less stressful way of doing it...

Fiona...how did today go? 

LB, Pammie, hiya to you guys too xx  

Rooz xx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Flooz - you can't throw me off - I started this thread - its all mine     
Forgot about your garden thing Mirra - are you going to post us a pic?  
Yo Fiona and Merse   waiting for news  
NDub x


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi girls, thought i'd update you on how i got on with my follow up!!
Well it went surprisingly well, much better than i thought, i'm not being written off yet!!  He basically said it was bad news to have no response but not the end of the road as i've responded before, he didn't know basically what would happen if we tried again but he thought if we could afford it an could stand it emotionally and phisically we should try again!! I asked about short protocol and he said there were fors and against and he was of the opinion it didn't make much difference! I also asked about changing drugs and he said he would be happy to change me to menopur to see if it made a difference! He also said i have to get FSH done to see if its dramatically changed. And i could speak to him any time i liked!!!!! So we'll get FSH done and see where we go from here but prob up to Lister for a second opinion when FSH levels are back!! lol xxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Brilliant Merse - very positive! Where's that banana?  
Glad you have a plan.  where are you in your cycle?  Will FSH be soon?
nicks x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

That's good news, Merse!
It's annoying the dr doesn't see any benefit to the short protocol - I think it's good, even if only psychologically, to do a totally different protocol as it makes you feel like you're doing something to help things along.
But encouraging that he thinks you're not beyond hope - the Lister will be even more encouraging I reckon. Though I'm annoyed with them over the fee for the follow-up consultation.  

Rooz - I'm going to post pics of the garden, and was going to take an 'after' pic today, but it was so overcast I didn't bother! I got two six-foot formiums from the DUMP the day before, that completed my tropical look! I love the dump and freecycle - done most of the garden that way.

Nicks, it's so hard to keep sane on this particular journey. It's good that you're looking after yourself a bit and taking time out. I bet you wouldn't have absorbed anything on that course anyway! 

Laura, Odette, Pam, Fiona, how are you all?

xxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

For me the worst thing on the LP was the 20 and 23 days of unnecessary DR'ing cos the clinic was too busy - just a total waste of time when you are a poor responder.  I'm writing a complaint about my old clinic (well really the Cons I was under) and I'm going to ask for a refund for wasting my time and failure to make a diagnosis!    Never had FSH done there AT ALL and the only one I had had in the past was on day 21 with a progesterone test by my GP.  They were just happy to keep taking my money ...........
Sorry for short rant - hope you find it entertaining  
n x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Join the club Nicks! I'm in the middle of a complaint about my old clinic - arrogant beggars.
We will succeed!

xx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

There we go Nicks theres my dancing bananas!!! 
I must admit i'm not thrilled with the fact they don't think short protocol is a good thing, as it's such a horrible thing to go through, i still feel horrible now and my hair is like straw!!  As for FSH test not sure when af will arrive think its 3 wks since they abandoned cycle so could be any time?? 
Miranda would love to see some garden pics, mine is total mess!!!  xxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

My hair has recovered soooo much quicker after the short protocol. I'd recommend it.


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Mines still like tow rope when its wet!!! 
Ok now need advice what can i take or do to lower FSH? Assuming it could be high of course!!!  xxxx


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

Really glad your follow up went well Merse. All that worrying as well... i'm almost feeling guilty for being so negative about them now!! Still, gteta they made you feel that all is by no means lost and this perhaps gives you another option now - if they're prepared to do SP and try you on a different drug it sounds as tho' they're slowly coming around to the idea of being more flexible which is essential if they want to keep the more demanding patients like us!!! 

Afraid i don't really know how to lower your FSH - reducing stress supposedly helps but there are probably so many other factors too. The cons. we saw in So'ton at my aborted scan was of the opinion it makes little diff. trying to hit on a cycle with a lower FSH, whereas clinics like ARGC do apparently, so really don't know what to believe on that one.  You may be pleasantly surprised anyway and be in the normal range still...that's why UCH are quite good, in that they look at other levels like AMH and antral follie counts, not just FSH. My FSH was still below 9 last time it was tested so hadn't gone up despite my crap response in Feb. 

R x


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## kjones (Feb 7, 2007)

Hi Girls

I cant tell you how bad my AF is.  I have never experienced anything like it.  I was rolling around in pain last night with my water bottle and today I am in agony.  Is this normal?

Am flying into Birmingham on Friday.  I am actually hoping that the weather will be cold as it is so hot here I need a break!!

As for my drunken antics apparently my wonderful (not) DH filmed me on webcam to his sisters and my sister and everyone found it hillarious (apart from me)!!  Apparently I am a rubbish singer when I am drunk and should NEVER do it again!!

Anyway speak soon
Kerry
xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh, thank the lord! My cons has emailed back to say the follow-up is free. Wish they'd train their secretaries properly...

Yay! For going home, Kerry! you must be so excited to see your family after IVF hell.

Poor you, with the bad AF. Mine wasn't too bad - just black and tarry, but not a lot of it. Difficult to know what to expect really, but then I only had one embryo - maybe this is why?

I'm going to make an appt with my doctor to see if they can give me HRT. Have any of you gone down this route? I've also ordered some DHEA.

Bad, bad DH - naughty boy! Time to get revenge I think! 

xxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Rooz i am going to ask about the other tests as well i'll prob e mail them today and ask if they do them! Yes was pleasantly surprised by consultation yesterday was expecting them to be really negative but although he didn't give us false hope he didn't think we should leave it there!!! 
Kerry thats so funny your dh filming you!!!  Not so good about af though  hope it gets betta soon!
Miranda thats great news getting follow up for free  thought it was strange as surely they would want to discuss where to go from here? Don't know anything about HRT sorry, why would you want to go on it? xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Because of going through an early menopause, principally, but I've also seen it can have benefits for IVF.
They put you on it before an FET, so it can't hurt?


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Sounds like a good idea then   xxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi girls!
Kerry - I had a really bad AF   after my first attempt - hot water bottles like you and i never normally have pain.   Hopefully it will only be one or two days.  I wonder if it depends on the thickness of your lining beforehand?  Brum is cold today - you'll be OK, in fact it is meant to rain today. 
Mirra - I know that Oestrogen beforehand is not uncommon - oestrogen priming, ocp etc.  Not sure how helpful your GP will be.  They might only do it on a clinic's recommendation.  Did you have a measured low oestrogen? Glad your follow up is free  
Rooz -what day is you scan then, Fri?  Agree about FSH - my con said you are as bad as your highest reading, but he wanted to do LP is FSH was less than 10 (no chance!   ).  I think on a low FSH month in theory you should be easier to stimulate.  Merse - maybe your FSH that month had just peaked and that is why.  you'll never know though!    
Off to clinic later.  Only have 0.1ml Suprecur left - good job I noticed in time for tomorrow.
Chat soon
Love Nicks x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Not low oestrogen, no - just low AMH. I ought to read up on oestrogen priming then - another course of study for me!

Are you having a scan today, Nicks? or just stocking up on the Suprecur?

xx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Have just emailed my clinic and i'm being tested for FSH, E2 and LH I think thats what it said!!  xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Try and get an AMH Merse - I didn't get anything unusual on my FSH, LH and E2.
xx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

I'm gonna ask if this comes back normal, def not having another cycle b4 i've had all the tests! Do you know if AMH has to be done on a certain day and can you get your doc to do it or does it have to be the clinic?  xxx


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Roozie you made me laugh - I would love to be thrown off the poor responders thread for responding too well!

Nicki - good luck for today 6 decent sized follicles is brilliant. I have been taking my DHEA since Sunday and haven't grown a beard yet! Are you still taking it or did you stop before treatment?

Kerry - have a great trip home you deserve it

Merse - excellent news. My consultant didn't recommend further treatment ( although we are going again in Sept). My consultant said although you may get more eggs with SP the PG rate was no higher ie I think you get more eggs but not as good quality. Having said that it is a no brainer for us poor resonders. I am having SP in Sept and looking forward to a much shorter treatment time.

Miranda - glad you don't have to pay after all. My treatment fee includes the follow up and to be honest it is very insensitive for it not to be.

Odette - gald you are going to keep fighting.

Laura - hello

Pam x


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi Pam thanks for that  what reason did they give you for not trying again? xxx


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Merse - I was on 450 menopur and only managed 1 follicle. Although my first cycle didn't get abandoned I still only managed two eggs. The consultant said this poor response and my age -40 indicated a low ovarian reserve and that my chances with my own eggs are in the low single figures.

Pam x


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

But thats still a chance   So you are going to give it another go in sept, have you changed clinics? xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Pam - are you trying DHEA? I've just ordered mine this morning. I'm going to take it for a few months before our second and final try.
Then it's on to plan B or C, depending on if my BIL wants to help us out.
They're like little Glaswegian peas in a pod, so I hope so!
But more than that I hope this second go works. That would be good!

I can't see 40 as being very old - they need to test your ovaries' age, to understand the chances of you using your eggs. There may be only a few, but they could be excellent quality.
Did they down reg you before the menopur? That's what stopped me responding, the Suprecur...

Let's all get thrown off this board for producing too many eggs! We can start a new one - Ex-poor responders! That would be sooo exciting, if we could all manage to beat the odds by sharing tips and tricks.

xxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

oh how lovely would that be!!!  xx


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Yes you are right there is still a chance and if the worst happens then I think it will at least give me closure on having a child of my own and I think I will then be ready to think about ED or adoption.

Staying at the same clinic. Did consider moving but I really like my clinic it is small, friendly and the results are good ( QE in Gateshead in the North East) and it is only 15 minutes from were we live. I had a look through the HFEA guide and there really isn't a huge difference in success rates at my age range and I didn't think traveling all the way to London would help make the process any easier.

Having said that although my clinic has good results overall it doesn't specialise in poor responders so I have found this site very good for ideas. I did ask about Clomid + Menopur at my follow up meeting and my consultant said they do not use it as it results in a thinner endometrium. Having learnt what I have here and knowing my endometrium was thick the last two cycles I am going to ask again if this is a possibility for me. Nor have my clinic given me an AMH test although to be honest I don't see the point I have responded poorly on two IVF cycles and it is not going to change what we decided to do. My FSH was fine and that turned out to be a bit of useless info as I responded far worse than expected.

Anyway I have rambled on a bit!

Miranda - while I remember can you give me the exact details of the drugs you were on please. Sorry I think I have asked you before but can't remember.

Cheers  Pam x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

For the first, where I responded with one follicle, I was on the pill, then Suprecur (two sniffs twice daily) then Menopur 225, rising to 375.

For the last, which got four eggs, I was on the pill, then 100mg Clomid from Day 2 for five days, and Menopur 375 from day 3 for 11 days. I think it's called a Clomid flare protocol? Don't quote me on that! But it yielded far better results. i'm hopeful that after a couple months of DHEA I should double that.


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Miranda you sweet young thing - alas 40 is knocking on a bit! On the plus side for me the two eggs I produced in cycle one both fertilised to make grade 1 embryos so in my head if I can at least get to embryo stage they will be good ones. Unfortunately statistically at my age 60% of embryos have some form of abnormality that can't be seen by looking at them.

I would never have thought I would take something recommended on the internet but feel I have nothing to lose as my chances are very low. It is only a mild steroid so I don't think it can do any harm and if anything I feel like I have more energy.

I have DR on both my cycles and this second cycle came with loads of hot flushes so I defo felt like I had DR'd too well and then couldn't get going again so feel like I have a far better chance with the SP.

I hope and pray we will all be talking on the Ex poor responders site soon!

Pam x


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Thanks Miranda - I have read a lot about Clomid + Menopur and it defo seems to get a better results for poor responders. Did you have Cetrotide at the same time as the Menopur?

Cheers

Pam x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Yes, but only latterly - about halfway through I started on the Cetrotide.

D/R made me feel really ill and stopped me producing more than one follicle. Hot flushes, hair that felt like I'd stuck it in a toilet and cranky - yuk.
I'm afraid my ovaries are older than you! I'm menopausal, so the Lister tell me.
But I know what you mean about the abnormalities - are you considering PGD?

Over on the multiple cyclers board a woman's just come back from the US, where they got loads of eggs out of her - 16! - and put back SIX, so there's ways round lots of things.

By taking something from the internet do you mean DHEA? You _are _ taking it, then? How long have you been taking it for? And how much?

xx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Just a quickie girls.  I have 7 on right and 1 on left    Shall I start that new thread then?    Lining is not quite ready so am in again tomorrow - continue 'coasting'.  EC possibly Fri/Sat.
Pam - another DHEA chick   I am the medical supervisor on this thread so I'll keep an eye on you.   75mg per day yeah? You will do better on SP - more eggs and they will be better quality because of your DHEA!  You too Mirra.  
Gotta rush and cook tea - last gardening class before exam later.
Nicks


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Pam - how many eggs did you get on your first cycle?


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Hi Miranda,

No not considering PGD - I think you need 6 embryos mininimum to do this and I think it is very expensive.

You must feel very angry to be menopausal at such a young age. I was 38 before TTC and my Mum had her menopause ay 42 so I always knew in my heart it might be a bit late. I can only imagine how devastating it must be for you to be stuggling at 34 and I have got everything crossed you hit the jackpot next time.

Yes sorry I meant DHEA. I have been taking 75mg- 50 mg in the morning and 25 mg with my evening meal - the same as Nicki and another lady on this site whose name I can't remember who got a BFP and thinks it helped. If I remember rightly both their consultants said it was worth a go even though they would not prescribe it for them. 

From what I can make out DHEA is a steroid-type hormone mainly produced in the adrenal glands. The basic hormone producing and organising parts of the body are the hypothalamus gland and pituitary gland in the brain, and the adrenal glands on the kidneys.  These form an “axis” of information, and if they are not “talking” to one another properly, then it causes problems with your fertility.  If the steroid-type hormone in the adrenal glands is low, then it will prevent the other glands from doing their jobs properly.As the body ages it naturally produces less DHEA.

I think we should ideally have a blood test to see if our DHEA is low but I haven't bothered as I don't think it will do any harm. Don't forget it is possible we may suffer with weight gain and hair loss as with any steroid drug but I think the DHEA is a mild steroid.

Off to check out the multiple cycles board for a bit of good news!

Take care

Pam x


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Nicki - fantastic news your number of eggs keeps going up! 

I only had two eggs on my first cycle but they made it to good grade embryos. 

Did you stop taking DHEA before you started this treatment or are you still on it?

Pam x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Was it you who asked about my garden, Nicks? I've posted pics on another thread - rather than do it again, here's the link...

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=97411.msg1391789#msg1391789

HOO-BLOODY-RAY! For your EIGHT -count em - follies! That is absolutely superb, it really is. How many did you get without the DHEA?

We're certainly going to have to start that other thread if we all get on that stuff.

How big are your EIGHT follies

See Pam? After DHEA we may have enough for PGD? It is experimental though - I understand where you're coming from.

I'm going to the GP's tomorrow and I'm going to ask about DHEA testing and HRT, etc - he knows b*gger all about fert tx, but seems interested - I'll have a bash.

xx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Sorry Pam forgot to answer - I'm still on it now.   Might stop once eggs are out - its done its work then.  
Mirra - difficult to compare cycles but on 1st LP IVF (IUI) I had 3 follies and a 'runt' - was on 300 Menopur that time.  Next time I had taken DHEA for about 2 months and was on 450 Menopur. Had 8 follies developing but one was the massive duck egg and others were very small so EC was timed to get 3 out of the decent sized ones rather than wait for the tiddlers to catch up.  I don't know what my FSH was on those cycles but its 15 now   so hopefully it wasn't any worse. I will check out your garden pics!  
Love Nick


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Love the garden pics   - really fab - you have worked wonders!  
Follies are about 16 - 21 mm I think, althought the little tinker was only about 14


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Sorry girls!! I missed this thread as we had moved and I hadn't posted on it... god you lot dun arf talk!  I've tried to catch up but maybe a bit confused as I just had to read through 4 pages!!!  

Nicks - Thats fab news!!  wow 8 follies thats really fab!  I'm so jealous!  

Merse - great about the follow up... see your not a right off just yet!  

Who was asking about lowering FSH??  I believe acu helps and wheatgrass.  So your all taking the DHEA then?  I looked at the website and it scared me a little, its said not to take if tryig to get preg on one sight. So whos having it and anybody taking it under a dr or all just self prescribing?  I could be persuaded!

I'm having a bit of a rough time but too many friends having too many babies at the moment, got my hospital notes back today and that made me sad. 'poor quality embryos' 'very slim chance of pregnancy' to name a couple.  I'm really thinking maybe I should just go for donor now, not sure I can go threw anymore disappointment and me and DP are really not getting on.  I also have killer hayfever at the moment.  

Nicks - You sneak! Raeding my other threads!!  They are private! Oh yeah forgot they are not.. on the internet for the world to see... hope my boss doesn't read these!!    What do you think then about moving to Derby, just not sure as have such a lot on and not sure DP would be able to come up staright away so would be on me todd for a while, and with an op in August and Ivf October.    And moving away from all my friends and family? But I would like to have some space, I live in a one bed flat at the moment.  

Love to you all.


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Nicks thats great news 
Miranda your garden looks fab perhaps you should do that for a living!!! 
Laura sorry you are having a bad time of it, its so hard when everyones having babies we've all been there and still are!!  sorry about your hospital notes why have you got them, i don't think i'd want mine it would make such depressing reading!!! 
Have you got a job to go to in Derby?  
 to everyone else xxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Merse - No just saw one I liked the look at... but that is our long term plan.. Moving to Derbyshire.. just not sre if this is the right time. I got my notes as was looking at other clinics and they like to see your notes prior to a consult.


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

What does DP think of you going for the job?
Do you have to have your notes if you are going for a consult somewhere new?


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

I don't think they all want them, but I guess I thougth the more info about you that you can give them the better they can treat you?  We think we know it all about ourselves but reading through the notes there is alot of science gargan that IO don't understand but I guess would make sense to a consultant.

As for the job, I've hardly seen DP over the last few weeks, we are not really getting on at the moment.    I hope we will spend some time together tomorrow evening.


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Its so hard on a relationship going through all this,we all have our ups and downs (well we do!) its such a strain.   Also when you haven't been spending a lot of time together i find that doesn't help either!  Hopefully you'll have a good chat tom an feel better about things lol Merse


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Just been on the phone to friend who got married in November and now she's 13 weeks pregnant.  she's 38 and a half    Her other half is in his 50's so good luck to them!  Actually I am really pleased, its a good time for me to have news like that - 2 months ago and I would have been crying my eyes out.  
LB - yes it might not be great timing for your move especially with your op - you don't want to end up having to wait even longer   Would DP have to get a job after you and then move up?  Its difficult if you have to sort 2 jobs out - but it is your ultimate plan so don't right it off.  Sorry about your hosp notes    It does hurt when you read things like that.  I've always worked hard and got exams/jobs etc I find it hard being suddenly 'rubbish' with virtually nothing you can do about it.  Least you are young hunny!    You will be OK    
I'm knacked - going to bed now.
 Night Nicks x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hello dears!
Well done on the size of your follies, Nicki! They sound like they're going great guns.

Laura - sorry to hear you're having some bad knocks at the moment. It's the worst feeling, when you discover how bad the situation is. And if you and DP aren't getting on too well it compounds the misery.

Merse - when do you see the Lister consultant?

Pam, Odette and Kerry - how are you lot?

I've got the price back from Turkey - an 18-day stay in a hotel with breakfast, ICSI and drugs, PLUS TESE for DH would come to £3,000. Brilliant! It's £10,000 without the B&B over here.
BUT, they're worried about my AMH and want an antral follicle count done before they'll accept me. Do you know if they might have done this at the Lister already, as part of my tx? Or whether the NHS will do it for me?

xx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Morning Mirra! That sounds a bargain   IVF and a bit of  
I think antral follie counts vary from month to month.  You may have had one before - they just count the follies on the surface when your ovaries are resting to give an idea of how many might ripen.  Don't think they are that reliable though. I think most places would rather just take your money and risk it  
Slept so badly again last night and moved into the spare room in middle of night.  Was too hot and the duvet was getting me annoyed   - too light and feathery - I like to be snuggly but the weather is not letting me! 
Scan later for me.  Fingers crossed.
Nicks


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Thanks Nicks! 
I may ring the Lister and ask if there are any on my notes, then.
I'm sleeping appallingly, too - up at 6am yesterday and 6.20 today, despite having a week's holiday - bah! SO annoying...
Do you think it's the drugs making you so restless?

Good luck for your scan!

xx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Yeah I think its a combination of drugs making me hotter than normal in bed (that sounds racy doesn't it!   ) the stress, and not feeling very well.  I think I will get a bit better when they've been collected.  Not looking forward to HCG trigger as boobs are big and sore already - I'm in my biggest bra already (AA cup on the large side!!   )
Chat later I'm off now
N


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## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

Miranda - that's a good price - have you researched them before you go? Are there any other women going there from the boards?  As I said I'm looking into IVIBarcelona.  It's that limbo thing isn't it - in between treatments.  Keep us posted.   

NickiW - Funny, I couldn't sleep at all last night  - didn't go to bed until 5.30am.
Feeling really restless with things etc.  Good luck with the follicles.

Merse1 - hope you and your other half find time to talk and sort some things out.  :

Laurab - I know its difficult to keep sane with all those children around you - just count to 10 and carry on - you are not alone in this. 

As for me I'm not good  - get moments where I just want to run away from all this    

Odettexx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I'm at the same stage, Odette - the grief hits in little waves. Mine came this morning after my GP tried to tell me to give up on IVF. I'm 34 and have only had one try, goddammit!
Their stats are good in istanbul, but that's possibly because they don't treat people with high FSH. I'll give them an antral follicle count and see how I go.

Whoo-hoo, Nicks! Or should I call you Jordan?

xx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi girls Jordan here!  
Back from scan.  Lining is 9.9mm now so I've had one Menopur today and I take my trigger tomorrow night with EC Saturday    I'm so excited now I know its gonna happen. 
Mirra and Odette   know how you feel.  Its still early days yet.   As soon as you finalise your new plans it will get less painful    Mirra you tell them babe YOU ARE ONLY THIRTY FOUR!!  I know you won't give up that easily.
Well I'm going to Gardener's World Live tomorrow.  Was a bit touch and go whether it would work out OK with all the scans etc.  I think a day of normality will do me good.  Don't tell work - I am meant to be doing admin   

Nicks


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

i did my first post on the introductions board yesterday and was redirected to you guys so I hope you don't mind me butting in.  I've copied it below in the hope that you can give me any advice.
many thanks

i've been looking at the site for the last few weeks thinking about signing on but not knowing how to start.  in the end bad news has given me the final push.  i'm 38 in July and have been TTC for 15 months.  i have high FSH 14.5 and have already undergone 1 stimulated IUI that didn't succeed in March.  

we agreed to go straight to IVF given my age and FSH and I started the long protocol on 300 of Gonal F. I had my day 9 scan today and there were only 4 follicles, 2 of 14mm and 2 of 11mm.  My doctor said it was less than he would have liked, i know that ideally I would have 12 or more.  I'm now feeling really despondent for the first time since this whole thing started. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice about poor response, whether there is really a chance that things will improve by Friday enough for the cycle to go ahead, at what point do they decide to cancel a cycle. convert to ICSI etc.

I think i've been kidding myself that everything is OK and despite knowing that the high FSH was going to be a problem, so today has been a bit of a rude awakening.  Feeling like a very large glass of wine even though i'm trying not to drink.

sorry to be a whinger, any advice would be really welcome.
thanks
Kirstie


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Welcome Kirsty!   My very first post on this thread was a story very similar to yours.   We are all here to help each other.  You will probably find your follies grow and everything goes ahead - you may even recruit a few more by your next scan.  You have responded so all is not lost and 4 follies is still better than 1,2 or 3! But possibly you're never going to produce high numbers of eggs.  We have all been there when they talk to you like you are some kind of freak at your scan but actually its about 10% who don't respond well.  You may not need to ever try again (hopefully!) but your Cons might change you to short protocol or increase your dose - there is always something to try.  Hopefully things will improve for you this cycle. If your FSH is high it does reduce your chances but it certainly doesn't mean it can't happen.  You might be asked to convert to IUI that's the only thing - are you private or NHS?  The thing with that is you may not get more follies on another go so always a bit of a gamble.
You have found the right thread now anyway!  
Nicki


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Kirstie,

Don't be too despondent and don't touch that wine. You have 4 reasonable sized follicle so you could get 4 eggs this cycle. I only got two follicles on my first cycle but they made it to two good grade embryos. Unfortunately they did not not make it to a BFP but there are plenty of stories on this site of ladies who have got a BFP with high FSH and who were poor responders. You only have to look a few pages back for Babs BFP. Ideally your follicles should be 18 mm by Friday, if they are not there should be a possibility of stimmulating for a few more days. I never got offered ICSI even with so few eggs because my DP's sperm was good. I got the option of cancelling on my first cycle but didn't and am glad as at least i made it to the two week wait. My second cycle was abandoned and converted to IUI as only one follicle. IUI was much cheaper but I sometimes wonder wether I should have gone for it.

If the worst happens and it doesn't happen this cycle there are other protocols you may respond to better. The majority on this thread at the minute favour the short protocol and there are different drugs.

You are not a winger you daft thing we all know how devastating it is.

Nicki - brilliant news yet again. I am getting excited for you now.

((Miranda & Odette)) - the emotions definately come in waves , so hang on in there you will feel better soon.

Laura - hope things improve with DP soon

Pam x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hi Kirsty!

Well done on responding with four evenly-sized follies on just 300 - that's actually very good for a poor responder! we've all produced fewer than that on higher doses, so let me reassure you that actually, you've done rather well!
Four is great, as you have a good chance of fertilisation with that lot.
Ignore other boards where they're talking about eight and ten follies - if it doesn't happen this cycle and they up your meds you'll probably produce more, too. They just have to work out what drugs to put you on.

Welcome to the board! We'll be right here with you, making sure you do as well as you possibly can! Just relax - no one knows what's going to happen on a cycle, not event the doctors, so there's no point worrying now. Take a deep breath and count the positives - you possibly have four good eggs in there. It really does only take one!

Yay, Nicks! It's finally happening! Enjoy your drug-free day tomorrow, and report lots of lovely eggs on Saturday.

xxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi Kirsty and welcome   i think the girls have said it all but four is better than none and its quality not quantity, also a lot can change in a short period of time so don't be down! 
Miranda i am waiting to get FSH done and the results before booking cons with the Lister! Turkey sounds a bargain though!! Can't believe your doc told you to give up after one go and being 34!   How are antral follie counts done? I've had no sleep either its obviously catching!!! 
Odette me and dh still haven't spoken properly about what we are going to do but hopefully this weekend we'll have a bit of time!! I'm sorry you are feeling down and i hope you feel betta soon and as Nicki said its still early days. 
Nicki great news on scan  hope you have a nice day tom.
Laura hope you are feeling betta today hon? 
 to Rooz,Pam,Babs and Fiona xxxx


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

thanks for all your words of encouragement and advice.  Feel a bit better today but very anxious about the next scan on Friday.  Maybe i'm panicking too soon, so you're all right just need to hang in there for a couple of days and hope the picture improves.  Also had accupuncture tonight, don't know if it really works but makes me feel like i'm doing something positive, especially when i did succumb to a few glasses of wine last night.

thanks again!!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Don't be anxious, Kirsty! There's sweet fanny adams you can do about it now, so relax and think of the quality eggs you'll get from being chilled out. Honestly, what other experience do we girls spend thousands of pounds on and not get to enjoy any of it?    
We're here to steer you through this rough patch. It's perfectly possible to get a BFP from those few eggs.
Don't worry about the wine - it's not like you sunk half a bottle of vodka!

Watch some rubbish sitcoms and have a good belly laugh - it really helps dispel the tension and stops the tx getting too much.

xx


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## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

Hi Girls

There is a great website www.invineurope.co.uk being written up by a FF member - it is a great wealth of information for those interested in going abroad for tx.

Have a look at it.

odettexx

/links


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## kjones (Feb 7, 2007)

Hello Ladies

Sorry I havent posted for ages but I have been busy packing and stuff for my trip home tomorrow.

Well Af pains have finally gone thank goodness I have never known anything like it.

I have my appointment with the DR tomorrow.  I am still going to suggest waiting at least 6 months and trying to get rid of my endo.  Am going to ask him about lowering my FSH.  What is this DHEA that you all keep talking about?

Might not post for a while now (unless I can get hold of a computer at home).  Dont go forgetting about little old me now will you??

Really mad, taped The Apprenstice last night and the bloke on the bloody radio just told me who won!!!

Hi Kirstie, try not to be too desponent.  My first try I didnt respond at all and after changing protocol I produced 8 follies with 5 fertilised eggs.

Take care everyone
Speak soon
Kerry
xxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi Kerry glad your af pains have finally gone!! I bet you are looking forward to Seeing your family? Did you change to short protocol after your no response? good luck with your appoint   Merse xxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Hello my lovely ladies,

Sorry didn't get o last night, had a migraine, did log on but the words were all blurry!

Kerry - enjoy your trip home, we won't forget you I promise!!  

Nicks - Wooo Hoooo!! You having sedation or GA?  Are you going to do it yourself!!  

Merse, odette, Mirra - How you doing girls, glad to see your all thinking of your next steps!   

Kirsty - welcome, not much i can add to what the girls already said, 4 on the long prot is pretty good, you have plenty of room for tweeking things on your next cycle if you need one.  Good Luck tom 

DP and me are a bit better he bought me a nnetendo yesterday with a brintrainer game!! I was playing one round my nephews at the weekend and it said I have the brain of an 80 yr old!!!  Thats not a good thing!  I had had quite a bit of wine!


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

You and your wine LB!   Am having sedation but will ask for nothing or minimal, DH is coming in so why should he get to watch it and not me?    Did anyone who had sedation remember it?  I alway have total amnesia with it    Triggering tonight 1030pm.  Going to work tomorrow and then next week off.  Should be back the week after but i have a feeling he is going to insist i have the time off.
Kirst - is it tomorrow your next scan??  Good luck   
Rooz - you must be up to something soon?  I know its getting close.  What drugs you having this time? 
Kerry - enjoy your break - its cold and (very) rainy here  
Merse - antral follie counts are just done via ultrasound (dildo-cam!) Hope you have good chat with your DH about stuff this weekend  
Mirra, Odette, Pam, Babs  
Been to Gardeners World today - got some bargain plants - very busy outside as everyone had to fit it in when it stopped raining! Hopefully will be up to gardening in the days after my EC.  
Love ya!
Nicki x


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

QUICK SOMEONE SORT MY BUBBLES!  HELP!  HELP!  I'M MELTING!...............................................


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

TWO BL**DY SEVENS ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

You ok now, Nicks? You weird, weird, Menopur-addled number fiend? 

Glad someone was able to nudge your numbers up!

Have I got this right - you are not even having sedation? I had a GA! Feel like a wuss now... Oooh, triggering - so excited for you! Let the eggs FLOW, baby! You'll be great - full of sumptuous eggs with the fertile qualities of some organic compost.

Laura, your poor brain! Though a bit depressing to try a brain game after some lovely WINE. certain times of the month I can fly through cryptic crosswords, but others, nada. It could be the wrong time in your cycle for even that game, bird.

Awww, Kerry! So annoying to know the result of the Apprentice before you'd watched it! 
I too am giving myself a few months to sort myself out before the next round. The DHEA is meant to turn back the hands of your ovarian time. It's a steroid hormone that could work miracles... or may not. But I reckon it's worth a bash, at £20 for three months' worth:
http://www.agestop.net/Agestop/product_detail.aspx?PID=54&CID=86
Hope you have a bloody lovely time in Brum with your folks - you deserve a treat.

Odette, I've PM'd you, with a reply I got on the Jinemed thread. There's a reply from Ophelia as well, on that thread - it all sounds wonderful. And I had such a swift and full response from them.

Rooz, Pam and Merse - how are ya, me little goujons of goodness?

xxxx

/links


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

hi nicki - yes it's my scan first thing tomorrow - feeling nervous/excited also very bloated which i'm choosing to take as a sign that something is going on in there, maybe a late surge.  Hearing all you guys talking about EC and sedation etc is weird haven't thougth that far ahead and since it's my first time have no idea what sedation will be like - but maybe one step at a time.
take care
Kirstie


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

No I think he will may me have a bit of sedation Mirra    I'd rather be completely out or completely in control, I don't like that no man's land in the middle.  You still feel all the pain, you just talk boll*ks through it and then don't remember  
Yeah someone has sorted my bubs - don't know who but thanks!  Blo*dy 7's!!  
Kirst - bloated is good!  I reckon you will be pleasantly suprised.  
NDub


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

That doesn't sound good! sounds like me on a night on the town, in fact.
Won't they GA you to oblivion?

Yeah Kirsty - it's funny how they can take a late surge. But know what? Even if they're just growing those four it's still good news. You'd rather have four good 'uns than eight fragmented nasties - they are much more likely to work.

xxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Hi girls...

Nicki--- NO sedation?  my EC was very painful so I want GA next time if they will let me. Was yours painful too? I thought it was just me as I has manky insides?

Mirra - so your thinking of Turkey? I liked them  best out of the abroadies.  What did they advise for you?

I've got tummy ache.  Had bad back and belly for 3 days think i'm having a multiple ovulation!    Haven't felt like I've oved since my IVF 2 months ago.  Really blaoted too.  

I'm off for a soak and a glass of vino!


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

thanks Miranda - i know it's quality over quantity, but hard not to get focused on the numbers.  Either way at least the injections can stop today or tomorrow - getting really fed up with husband jabbing me every night!
take care
kirstie


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi Girls, just done my second aerobics class of the week   so feeling pleased with myself!! 
Kirsty good luck with tom, i'm sure you'll be fine! 
Nicki i had sedation and don't remember a thing an thats fine by me!!  What do they actually count when doing the andral follie scans then?
Miranda good to give yourself some time off,i know i need it just to get my head and body together!! 
Laura glad you an dp are getting on betta and you are enjoying your wine!!  
Odette how you doing today? 
Babs are you keeping ok? 
Pam and Rooz


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Mmmm got a nice bottle of organic red... lovely.  

I'm off to brighton with work tom and then be staying with my friend overnight for a few    Do you think maybe I am an alcoholic?  Won't be back til late sat/ sun depending on how much shopping i do on saturday!

Soooo...

Kirsty - GOOD LUCK     

Nicks -GOOD LUCK      

Have a good friday girls!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Yaroo! The clinic in Istanbul have emailed back to say that whatever my follicle count they'll take me, so it's all systems go!
I really, really, feel excited about it - their success rates are great, and I've had recommendations that have blown my socks off - they even give you a mobile phone while you're there, to call the clinic at their expense, and pick you up from the airport!
And the emails I've got back from the clinic's director have been prompt, and lovely. All that sorted in a few days - whoo!

So it's September for me - I need some time to lick myself into shape.

Laura - your attitude to wine sounds just right to me! I love a good slurp of wine meself - can't beat it!
It's horrible, your first ov after tx - makes you feel like you've got a disease. So pour some more - you'll feel infinitely better!

The antral follie count is to count how many potential follies there are on your resting ovaries, Merse. because I have sod all AMH, but normal FSH they want to know my antral follicle count. but fortunately it's only to know how to treat me, not whether to accept me, which is what I feared.

Kirstie, I found it much easier to jab myself - no pain at all in fact. I think if someone else is doing it there's always a margin for nerves on their part and yours, so it has more potential to hurt. But doing it myself - I was amazed, as I couldn't feel anything.
Good luck for egg collection, birdie! And even better luck for fertilisation.    

Nicks, eggy thing you! My little omlette - good luck for you, too! It's going to be just faaaabulous. You'll be planting out in a couple of days, dreaming of embryo success. My parents brought me a whole load of plants today, so I'll be busy tomorrow, finding nooks for them! thought I'd finished for a while, too...

Rooz - are you floozing or boozing? or a bit of both?

Pam, Babs, Odette, Kerry - mwoi   mwoi  

xxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Mirra - You little omlette!!! Thats made me chuckle.  I like Istanbul... maybe I will have another shot with them after my next go... i'm hoping for september too! X


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## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

Hi Girls

Bought a bottle of red wine which I have yet to drink as my consulation prize.
Had a glasss of Baileys tonight just to kick start.  Oh yes and bought a packet of Cigarettes - don't smoke (used to be a on and of social smoker), I'm  a  I know, its my way of coping from my BFN.

Miranda - thanks for the info on Turkey - that's great that you are stating again in Sept.  Keep us posted.   I 'm hoping to start in Aug/Sept. 

Merse - I'm hoping to start exercise next week - its been a month since I started mycycle that i haven't done anything . 

Laura  -was that you on the ectopic board?  If it is what a small world? 

Pam - thanks for your words of support. 

Nicky - Good luck with your EC on Saturday .


Odette x


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi girls, I'm off camping for the week end with my niece and nephew so won't be around! must be mad!!! 
Good luck Nicki will be thinking of u! 
And good luck for today Kirstie! 
Miranda Istanbul sounds good!  
 to everyone else have a good week end lol Merse xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Camping Merse? you're brave! So we might be out in Istanbul together? Cool!
I think by the sounds of it it's preferable for me to go over there for ten days before dh joins me. It's GOT to be worth a shot. So I'll have to save up my remaining holiday from work in order to go..

Odette, are you just sitting looking at your **** and wine then? So disciplined! I have to quit smoking, but it's so hard, particularly when there's all this stress around. I haven't had eight hours' unbroken sleep all week. I think I'm ok, but just keep waking at 6am!

Is your next go going to be in the UK in September, Laura? Or might that be the go after that? Be lovely to have some company in Istanbul!

xx


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

Just had my scan and still only 4 follicles of a decent size and 1 bringing up the rear so they've decided to keep me going for a couple more days in the hope that the smallest develops and I have 5 for collection on Tuesday and I guess there might not be eggs in all the follicles - what's the usual ratio?  So looks like I can stay on this board for now, even though i feel like such a complete novice being the first IVF there's so many things I don't know.  How many eggs do you have to be not a poor responder?

So have to go and buy 1 more dose of Gonal-F from the chemist round the corner and scan again on Sunday  Is it normal to inject for 13 days?  Proving difficult to keep him off the booze when the goalposts keep moving! 

The reason my husband does the injections is that i'm terrified of needles, learnt to cope if I don't look but no way I could do it to myself.  to be fair he's done a brilliant job and is getting quite good at it now - and as you say it doesn't really hurt so we're both reasonably relaxed about it now - just feel like a pin cushion.  

So is there anyone on the board at about the same stage as me at the moment?

thanks to all of you it's really helping being here even though I don't know you all yet. 
take care
Kirstie


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hi Kirstie! 
I think less than four is classed as being a poor response - four is ok. Empty follicle syndrome is mercifully fairly rare,and you may even have two eggs in one follicle, so you just never know - it's impossible to gues what's in there until they suck all those eggs out!

It's normal to stim for between 10 and 16 days, so you're doing fine. They're just making sure you don't cook those eggs, and I would imagine that they will trigger you on Sunday, which means egg collection on Tuesday. So not too much longer for that booze ban!

You stay right there! I've stayed posting on the egg share board even though I can't egg share, but added more threads as I've gone along. It's so hard, your first tx - I've just had my first full cycle after one aborted attempt, and you just have to keep posting your questions and we'll answer them if we can. There's always someone who's been through the same thing.

If you do ever have a second tx you will most likely respond better, as they'll start you on a higher dose and maybe not downreg you. It's quite possible you won't be a poor responder every time!
Put it this way, they'll only be able to put two back in any case, so two good ones is all you need - anything else is a bonus.

xxxx


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Kirstie - Glad to hear your 4 follices are doing well and there is a chance you may get a 5th you must be very relieved. 

Kerry - have a great time at home

Merse - enjoy the camping - hope the weather is ok. It has been raining up here all week.  

Odette - isn't it wierd what we turn to when we are feeling low. I gave up the **** 4 years ago but when I am at my lowest I have been tempted to go any buy a pack. Most of the time now I stuff my face with chocolate and feel **** afterwards. Wish I could channel the feelings into excercise or something that at least had a chance of making me feel better after I have done it.

Nicki - you must be brave ( or mad!) to even consider EC with no pain relief! Still sending loads of positive vibes for EC

Miranda - gald to hear its all systems go for Istanbul

Laura - love the idea of organic wine - does that mean you are being good and bad at the same time?

Well I am off to try and make myself look beautiful - may take some time. I have been a real cow to DP all week and tonight I am going to try and get a bit of loving going on.  

I have been trying to get back to basics and track OV. I don't think I ovulate every cycle and my cycles are erratic. Anyway I haven't used OPK's or taken temps for a long time but bought myself an Ovatel microscope recently and it looks like I could be OV soon. I think if I was going to fall PG naturally it would have happened by now but feel like I still need to try especially now the IVF chances are so low. Anyway i am waffling.

Have a great weekend everyone.

Pam x


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi haven't gone camping after all as weather is ****!! 
Kirsty 4 decent sized follicles sound great to me!!! 
Got a question, prob a bit tmi but i had lots of mucus this morn when i wiped does this mean i have ovulated? My cycle was abandoned about 3.5 wks ago so don't know where i am!! 
lolxxxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi girls  
Back from EC which went smoothly and I got 6 eggs!    Very pleased with that as its double what I had last time.  Had minimal sedation so I do remember being in the theatre but not too much else.  Now will wait for phonecall tomorrow- hope they are getting it on as we speak  
Just chilling out now.
Merse - who knows with your cycle??  Hope things go back to normal soon and then you can get your bloods done.  Very good call not to go camping!    
Pam - go for it hun   Hope you had a successful DH seduction!  
Mirra - Turkey in Sept sounds good!  I will be hoping to get another try in then if this one is not the one.  You too LB, and Merse and Odette maybe?  Odette -wine and **** - good way to chill out.  I love Baileys - maybe I will have a small one tonight depending on how my reflux is!  
Kirst - have you got another scan sunday if they are planning maybe EC Tues?  you are rignt behind me hun.  And I think Floozie Rooz is just about to start stimming - any news Roozer?
Well I feel quite OK now so at least I don't have to waste a day in bed.  Although garden is out of the question in this weather.
Chat soon peeps
Love Nick


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

Hi Nicki 
yes i have scan tomorrow, probably the last one so we'll see what happens - EC Tuesday hopefully.  6 eggs is great, you must be so nervous waiting for that call - i can't imagine what i'll be like but i guess will find out v.soon!

Did you guys go to work afterwards, i'm having sedation and will take the rest of the day off but do you feel OK to go back to work the next day?

Going to visit my best friend this afternoon for a bit of girly time and to give husband a bit of time off.
take care
Kirstie


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi Kirst - you will probably be OK for work the next day - depends how much pain you have, but I think if you have 5 follies instead of 25 there is less poking around! Yes tomorrow's phonecall is a bit nerve wracking but not quite as bad as when we only had 3 eggs.  lets hope you get some good news tomorrow    Which clinic are you at?
NW


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

i'm at Guy's what about you?  

BTW what are LP and SP IVF? 

I'm 38 in July and also have high FSH 14.5/13.8, what about you?  This seems to be the biggest factor against getting pregnant at this age! i also have an underactive thyroid and although i'm on medication it doesn't put your body back to where you were before.  Felling a bit negative today, probably the rain and anxiety about tomorrow.


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## Pin (Apr 18, 2006)

Hi Nicki,

i just though i'd pop back and say congrats on the six eggs   Well done you.

I hope they fertilize ok and your ET goes ok.  

Hello to Laura and Kerry.  Laura - i've been reading your other thread - you're now a cyber auntie  .  Hope you are both doing ok despite what the world of tx is throwing at you.

take care

Pin xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Just a quick one, to say - YAROO FOR SIX EGGS!!!! Well done Nicks - you must be over the moon.

Keeping everything crossed that you get 100 per cent fertilisation mate - good luck!

xxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Thanks for all your good wishes girls!  
 Pin! Good to hear from you.  Hope you and bub are doing OK  
How many weeks are you now?
Kirst - LP/SP long and short proto.   I'm in the Midlands, St Judes clinic Wolverhampton - its a small place but loads better than my first place which was in Brum
Thanks Mirra   will let you know how I get on tomorrow.
Hi to everyone else - all out partying?  
NDub


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Just had a call from the embryologist and all 6 have fertilised   Am on    Going to have ET on Tues at 1300.
Still got a bit of tummy ache.  Did anyone else have it the day after?   \ never had any last time.
Have a good day girls - the sun is out!  
Nicks x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

[fly]YAAAAAAAY! ALL SIX!!!!![/fly]
That's absolutely excellent news - gives all of us hope. You'll get some frosties if you're lucky!

Not bad for a poor responder, eh girls?

Just shows we can do it if we try.

Well done Nicks - enjoy this tx, as it all seems to be coming good.

xxxx


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

nicki - 6 out of 6 is amazing congratulations!!  

i've just come back from my scan, i now have 6 follies although 2 are only 16mm, but the rest are all over 20mm.  Booked in for EC at 10am on Tues, doctor says he will do ovarian flushing to make sure he gets all 6 out.  Relieved and excited about the next bit now.

take care


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

Christ i've just realised that i forgot to ask when to stop sniffing, i did one this morning, i've got the big injection tonight - does anyone know?


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

hi lovelies 

sorry to have deserted the thread for a few days.  Have been up in London staying with sis (no TV & no internet!! PC-ness gone mad i'm afraid) while i had my D 3 scan and once again have managed to miss out on some exciting news ( i was in Bournemouth when Mirra et al were having all this) .... *Nicks*, i'm so chuffed for you, 6/6 is fantastic, way to go gas lady!!  That DHEA must have worked wonders then?? Think i'll be signing up to some of that if there's a next go around for me.
So all set for EC Tuesday then - brilliant. Just relax until then, hope your tummy groans subside, perhaps they're worse this time around because you've just had ex-poor responder egg numbers so more digging about inside during EC?! What's your new thread gonna be called then? 

Hi everyone else, hope you're all having good (sunny? clouded up a bit here now.. ) 
Sundays..? Mirra/Odette/KJ (i know you're in Brummie) hope you girls find something nice to do today that gives you the chance to switch off from it all for a bit. I know i haven't been there yet but recovering from a BFN must be painful and emotionally exhausting so take it easy too..  Mirra, the Istanbul idea sounds brill -what a huge diff i n price, it's criminal we're penalised so much over here! Are you definitely set on that clinic now or still considering other options ?(sorry, you've probably told everyone alreday but i've missed too many pages of chat )

Kirstie, hiya to you too and sorry you've not had teh response you'd hoped for but as the others have said, 4-5 is totally normal for some people so you stay +_ve about those and will them to grow for you! We will too.. 

Pammie - hiya!  Great, it looks like you're back on the road to your next tx. Not long until September, bet the time will start to fly by at a scary pace and before you know it...

LB, hope things are going a bit better with DP? I think it's so normal to have these slightly distant patches - my DH and I have these when i don't feel that he's overly interested in the whole IVF thing but i know it's his way of coping with it - head in the sand syndrome! Anyway, thinking about you too. 

Apart from being surrounded by babies and toddlers yesterday whilst up in London (was my niece's 4th birthday) which i have to say was a happy/sad experience, (really could've stolen one of them quite easily) i've started stimming FINALLY!! on Clomid 100 and had first 375 jab yesterday eve but i must say. i've lost the touch 'cos it bloody hurt!! I also made a complete cock up of mixing the powers up with the saline as i kept getting vacuums and got into a bit of a panick! Silly i know but what d'you do when that happens?  I couldn't find one fool proof way that worked each time so took about 20 mins to do it and still had a few tiny drops of liquid left in some of the ampoules. Tips appreciated! Next scan tomorrow so nervous about that after last time's problem, but hopefully can't be any worse.

off to catch up on some painting - can't take looking at 3 diff colours on one wall any longer.

Rooz xxx


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

Kirstie, our posts just crossed! Sorry i can't advise on sniffing (never had to do that) but the others can i'm sure so don't panick chick. Fantastic news about your follies too then - yeay!! 4 ripoe one and 2 possibles is brilliant - perhaps 6 is the new lucky number on this thread?? x


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## Pin (Apr 18, 2006)

Hi Nicki,

All 6 fertilized - wow that's fantastic. i bet you are on   You can't ask for more with 100% success can you.

I'm doing ok - 17 weeks now and still getting 'morning' sickness but not quite as often as before.  Apart from the obvious reasons, i'm pretty releived this tx worked as i am now the 4th one in my office to announce being pregnant and one of my friends is now due three weeks after me and this is her 2nd one in all the time me and DH have been TTC.

I am so pleased for you 'old bird' - good luck for tuesday.  i'll have my fingers crossed for you.

Pin xx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Kirst - check elsewhere but I think you should have a drug free day tomorrow after your trigger tonight.  I'm glad they have all grown!   You must be really excited now!  
Hi Rooz   we have missed you!  That is so good that you have started hun   How many days will you have done by the time of your first scan?  Let's hope this is the cycle for you    
Pin 17 weeks wow!   Pleased it is all going well for you fellow old bird!  
Nicks


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

WHOO-HOOOO! ANOTHER LUCKY SIX!!!
Well done Kirstie!
Six is a great number - you can do a lot with six. Those two at 16 will catch up by Tuesday.

Hey Flooz! Gawd, no telly or t'internet? Blimey - that's like being a nun! Though nuns probably even Google these days...
Hum - as for the recovering from a BFN I just don't know what's going on with me! I haven't been sleeping well, and waking early every morning, but I think that's money worries instead of anything else! I'm actually feeling more positive, now that I've made a plan with a capital P.
Turkey just seems the answer - that and DHEA for a few months beforehand.

Kirstie, from memory you have to have your last sniff (in my case it was a cetrotide jab, but it does the same thing) before 7pm on trigger day,then the trigger at the specific time they tell you to - that has to be 36 hours before EC.
And Nicki's right - no drugs for you tomorrow.

Pin - glad to hear your pg is progressing well! It's so frustrating watching others fall pg so easily, but we will all be extra special mums - we'll never ever take the kids for granted. Plus, if fertile women saw what bloody good ladies we have on here and how such great supportive friendships grow up, I reckon they'd actually be jealous.
FF members ROCK, so there.

KJ, Odette, Laura - hope you're all having fun, and pleanty of WINE.

xxxx


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

aww, thanks Nicks and Mirra! Yep, no TV or internet is a bit nun-like but supposed to encourage more active forms of recreation in their kiddy-winks! (my sis is a bit "right on" in the nicest possible way!!) Anyway, as you can see today i'm making up for withdrawal symptons and shall no doubt be posting my fair share on here the next coupla' weeks ...

Kirstie sounds like you got some good answers from the other gals - could always ring your clinic/cons. on call, if still uncertain?

Nicks, it'll  only be 2 days into stimming (today and yesterday) when i go up for scan tomoz. Should i panick tomorrow if numbers are crap or can more new ones actually grow between days 3-5 d'you reckon? Did you get any early feelings in your ovaries like Mirra's burning sensation? I've got zilch but onyl had 1 jab so far..

R xx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Rooz - 2 days is very early.  My first scan was day 6 this time.  Never have any pain or bloating just a bit of EWCM.   This was about day 5-6 this time but last time not til day 8 ish.  If you haven't got much going on they will just have to scan again as its way too early to make any decisions. Still they could change/ increase your dose so it's good to know.   Are you on DR drugs too?  Get them to run through the injection technique again if you haven't got it.   If you are using a drawing up needle you push all the liquid in, mix gently, keep the ampoule the right way up but tilted slightly,  make sure the needle is right at the bottom and suck back slowly - if you just suck back the liquid you will have a bit of empty syringe left to create small vacuum and get the final drops out.  Confused or what?   Good luck for scan tomorrow.  Will be here waiting as i'm off work now.   What time? 
Agree with Mirra - nunnery!   Could do without telly but I would miss the internet!
Chat soon
NW x


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

thanks for the tips Nicks! I'll see if i do any better with it this eve, otherwise will ask them why i'm making a mean of it.   (btw, you sure fertility drugs are the only kind you've ever injected - you seem to have that technique rather too perfected?  )

So you reckon day 3 is v early days... i just wasn't sure given the whole antral follie count thing (mine were counted about day 3 i think) and so was under the impression that they develop v early in teh cycle. Hopefully as you say there's time after scan 1 to improve on the count with more drugs, if needs be. God, what am i like? Clucking before i even know the result!! Ignore me. 

What you doing with yourself until Tuesday then? Gardening on the agenda by any chance?  

R xx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Hi girls,

Had lovely time in Brighton... just so many shops!

Sorry I've not posted til now... I've been trying to read whats happening... you girls do chat!!

Nicks - WOW thats bloody fab!  Your having ET on tue?  that a day 4 transfer?  Never heard of that before.  So was you on exactly the same drugs as last time?  You think it was the DHEA that increased your Quantity and quality?  If so I MUST order some! xx

Rooz - wow your off again.. day 2 is early for a scan so don't worry too much about how much you have... I think they will have plenty of time for growing over the first week. 

Odette - Yes thats me.. I don't post there very often, was just having a bit of a me whinge moan on there.  

Pin - Blooming heck 17 weeks!! thats flying by (well for us anyway!), how exciting, have you got a big bump now? Yes Im a cyber auntie!!  How exciting.  

Mirra - Hows you hanging?? All ok?  SO excited your going to Istanbul... you'll be able to test run it for me!

Kirsty - Good Luck tom,  

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi girls, i've had a hectic weekend went out and got very drunk on Friday and felt terrible all day yesterday , but still went to the new forest an camped with my niece and nephew yesterday as weather had improved!! They have just gone home now so i'm very tired!! 
Nicki that is fantastic 6 out of 6 you can't ask 4 more than that!!!!  I had quite a tummy ache after EC but they gave me pain killers that took the edge off!
Rooz stimming now!  Hope you get the hang of the injections, think its always hard to begin with then you just get into the swing of things!!
Kirsty 6 is great hopefully they'll all be a good size by Tues 
Miranda hope you get some sleep soon, but i know what you mean about money i worry about where its all going to come from, but as i see it i'd rather be in a bit of debt and have exhausted all avenues, than look back in a few years time and regret not doing it! 
Odette hope you are ok  
Laura hows you and DP? what did you do about job?
Babs,Pam and Kerry   lol xxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

hello girlies!

Nice to have you all back - now STAY THERE  

Glad to hear you braved the elements to camp, Merse! And yeah, I agree about the exhausting all avenues, but I'm going to limit myself to three tries I think. Of course, I say that now...

Laura, I'd much rather you tested it with me! I'm going to HAVE to borrow a laptop, or I'll go mad without you lot, in Istanbul on me todd for those first days.

Nicks, that's a great sign that they're saying Tuesday - four days is ace, they obviously think you're going to have some really strong embryos to play with.

Rooz, I meant to say earlier about the jabs, but forgot!   The technique for getting the air out is to point the needle upwards and flick the plastic until it runs back down - also, draw the plunger out as far as you can, as that brings the drips back down.
When you're jabbing in the tummy, pinch the skin round the jab area, or it'll hurt. Let the skin go only when you're pulling the needle out.
Blimey, it took me FOREVER to learn that! I had hands like bananas for days before I got the hang of it!
To make sure you get as much of the stuff up as poss, don't shake the vial - that gives you bubbles that are hard to suck up. Just turn the vial slowly until it's mixed. Also, don't push the water down too hard, or you get the bubbles.
Does that help?
or shall I just beggar off with my instructions?

xxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Yes we always said 3 goes, now does last time count as a go?  xxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Merse - we also agreed 3 goes and are not sure if our abandoned one counts either!  I did not apply for the derby job, but have applied to a couple in London.  Decided I want DP to get a job first as I think it will be alot easier for me to get work than him and don't wanna get stuck up there on my own.

Mirra- I'd love to come with you but I have to get rid of these manky tubes before I can do anything I'm afriad... I'm sure they have comps out in Turkey anyway!!


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

I don't think it should count as it wasn't a full go, so i'm sticking to that theory!!!  I don't think i'd like to be stuck in a new area on my own either, hope DP gets summat sorted then!  xxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh gawd no! My abandoned one I'm defo not counting, or I'd be down to one left!
No, Turkey will be attempt #2.

Shame you have to get your tubes done first, Laura! See you out there next time, eh?

No Merse - for our sh*tty luck we don't count abandoned attampts. If you don't get to the 2WW it's officially not an attempt, so there.

xxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Mirra - Well Im not sure you should be coming out on my attempt Mira as you will be having twins by then and I don't think flying with twins is a good idea.  

Glad we have the amount of attempts sorted out. So I have 2 more goes to plan!  

Nicks - how the tummy ache now?


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Yes, but after that I will be STRONG and stop. Though on Friday Marie Wren said my chances are about one in four...
Ach, I'll have the twins by then!
I just hope that I can get three embryos in Turkey, to put all of them back and give myself the best possible chance. They can put up to three back in, which is another great reason for going there.

I had an email back from the job I applied for, saying it was going to take till the end of the month to sort out who they wanted to interview. If I did get it I'd have to put off tx till the end of the year I guess, so who knows?

I don't think i will get it though. not very good applying for jobs - only good at interview stage.

What's your next move, Laura? Are you having the next bash here or abroad, do you think? When are those cruddy tubes getting yanked out? Ew.

xxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Mirra - well the bloody mess in the ole tum is being sorted on the 29th August and can start cycle after that. Although i am on the cancellation list so hoping it may be sooner but we will see.  As for next treatment, I did extensive research and went to a few open evenings and ..... my bloody NHS clinic offered us another 'good will' free go so I'm back at Barts, just have to pay for drugs.  Then depending on what happens there I will either have another go with my eggs in istanbul or have my final go with my sisters eggs.  My embies were poor quality and was only 2 so I'm not going to waste my final chance of a baby on them if this go they are still such poor quality.  Its sad but I have to be realistic, the ole ovaries aren't playing ball.


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Laura do you know why they are of bad quality?
Glad we have written off abandoned cycles  now if i can actually get to producing any eggs i can have 2 more goes!!!  
Just off to aerobics  then the dentist! what a morning!!!  
xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I think DHEA would help us all, actually, to produce more, better quality eggs.
I'm convinced that it will help me, anyway. there MUST be something in it, surely?

Nicks - tell us!

xxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Do you have to tell your clinic you are on it and where did you get it from?


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi girls!
Having a bad day today as still have abdo pain   All across lower abdo, constant, and deep inside.  Not really eased up since yesterday.  Phoned the clinic and was advised hot water bottle and Paracet by nurse - but consultant is going to phone me back in a min.  My medical knowledge   is doing overtime in my head and I have convinced myself I have got something going on inside    Anyone had pain this long after EC??  Its not like there were 20 eggs there!
My ET is scheduled for tomorrow - day 3 girls!  You can see how rumours start!  
Laura hope you get a cancellation for your op - still not long til August  
Rooz - hope scan was OK today and you've got lots of nice follies coming.  
Merse -I haven't told my con re DHEA.  Search for Biovea or Agestop on the net - that's where most people get it from.  I had my cholesterol, lipids and testosterone checked with my last FSH, interestingly I was very suprised to see my chol was on the upper limit of normal.  I think this may be linked to DHEA so will be keeping an eye on it and checking it again when I stop.  I say this because I eat really healthily and I don't believe it is a 'true' value.  We'll see.  Testosterone was in the normal range for females (phew!) Would recommend getting your lipids and testosterone checked if you can - just to keep an eye on them.  
Mirra - hi hun!  I think it has definately helped me - with my high FSH something must have helped. I am counting this one as my first proper go   On the last cycle we weren't even sure if the embyro's were in the right place! 
KJ hope you are enjoying the lovely english weather!  
Kirst - hi!  Big day tomorrow.  Have you got HCG (.)(.) yet?!    
Odette, Pam, Babs, Pin  
Talk later - hope consultant reassures me  
 NDub


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Merse, I ordered it from agestop.com, at £19.95 for 300 25mg tablets. It's free P&P. I asked my cons at the Lister and she said why not? She wouldn't rule out it helping, as long as I didn't take it for a very long period of time. i'm going to do it for three/four months before the next tx as i really believe it will help me.

Aww, Nicks - isn't it all bad enough without having pain on top? I hope you're ok. A hottie and some tabs sound just the ticket to me.
Hope your doc gets back to you to reassure you.

xxxx



/links


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

Nicki - sorry you're not feeling well.  Weird you'll be having yours put back in while i'm having mine taken out.

i've had a cold and cough all weekend and couldn't face going in to work today so called in sick.  Did my HCG last night, so have a drug and injection free day today which makes a nice change.  Feeling a little nervous and excited about the EC tomorrow, the ovarian flushing sounds a bit yukky!

With a FSH of 14.5 is 6 follicles about what's expected?

thanks
Kirstie


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Six is great with a high FSH, Kirstie, it really is. You may get more on another cycle, with measures to bring that figure down - wheatgrass etc, but six is excellent.
Good luck for egg collection tomorrow!
xxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Yeah Kirstie - agree with Mirra on that one - you are meant to respond better the lower your FSH, so 6 is good with a high FSH.
Feeling marginally better after paracet.  
Isn't the weather pants?


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

hiya everyone  

Just back from London after first scan and..... got 4 on the right and 2 on the left so far, one a bit smaller than the others, but all about inthe 7-10mm range so she didn't think that's too bad considering my P.R status! Still reeling from he shock of having made it thru' the first scan as this is a milestone for me  They're upp-ing me to 6 amps today tho' 'cos my oestrogen was only 575.. apparently on the low side? (but last time it was only 290 after 8 days so not as bad). Anyway, just praying those follies grow more by Wednesday so i can feel a bit more confident this won't be cancelled cycle #2.

Nicks - u poor old thing! Really hope the pain's fading by now - how horrible on top of all else. Have they called you yet for some advice? What time you due in 4 ET tomorrow? - i'll be sending bundles of   your way.

Kirstie, loads of   to you too hun', i'm sure your EC will go smoothly and by tomorrow eve you'll be telling us all about your fine eggs! Oh, and about the FSH question, just to add, my FSH has been between 8-10.1 and i've only got 6 early folllies so your number sounds really good too.

Oh, Mirra thx for the extra jabbing tips. You must think i'm such a dunce but i had real probs the first eve battling against the bloody vacuum in the vial! (sounds like a good film title, " Vacuum in the Vial". Or perhaps not). Yesterday was better so tonight should be a breeze i hope. Actually tho' before i forget can you just tell me, when you injected the Cetrotide, did you pull back on the syringe whilst in your tummy, (before injecting in the liquid) to check for drawn back blood? Instructions say to do it but if there is any blood, you have to bin the whole lot - i only have enough 'til tomorrow eve so don't want to get in that predicament, hence was going to ignore that step. Is that stupid?? 
Dr. Nicks, any ideas here too?

Hi to everyone else, LB, Merse, Odette, Pammie, KJ.....   

Sun just come out here in time for my injections - how nice!

Rooz xx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Brilliant news Flooz!    Sounds like you are off to a good start.  You wonder why they didn't just start you on the high dose anyway?   That will bring you oestrogen up nicely   Sounds like they are monitoring you very closely.  Never had my oestrogen measured at either clinic.
Would have thought its highly unlikely you would get any blood.  If you draw back really gently then if you get a tiny bit of blood just come out, and inject elsewhere.  All drugs are compatible with blood I would have though?   Or else just not bother - I'm sure I didn't all the time.  will you do IVF if you have over a certain number?
Kirst - good luck for EC tomorrow - hoping for lots of juicy ones!  
My ET is at 1300.  Not though about it much today.  Pain is a bit better now.  Cons phoned - said probably ovarian (nope deffo not), bowel (nope don't think so) or bit of free fluid in pelvis (think this is most likely).  maybe I will be 'diagnosed' tomorrow during the ultrasound.  Let's hope his dilatation and mapping out of my cervix has done the trick. 
Love to all 
Nicks


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

God no, I didn't draw back the needle! Must have read the instructions wrong...

Another sixer! Amazing!

Crikey, I hope I do as well in September, or I'll feel I'm letting the side down...

That's the three of you, then, with six - eek!   The number of the beast!

Backing away quietly now...

xxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Hay girls,

Did you watch eastenders?  Maybe we should all just kidnap and chain a heavily pregnant women to our beds ratehr than treatment... much less hassle I'm sure!!

Nicks -sorry your in pain, I too had alot of pain afterwards but I guess that was becuase of all my adhesions and fluid... my EC was a bit of a hoo ha!  You didn't answer my questions... was you on 450 menopur last time??  See I just am not convinced I will get a better result doing exactly the saem thing again. Which is what my consultant is planning to do.  

Floozi - Looking good!  What is GIFT?? I have no idea!

Hows everyone else doing?


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

thx gals... yeah, pleased with 6 for now, but early days so anything could happen yet..

Glad pain going off a bit Nicks - will the fluid still linger after ET then or can they hopefully do something to relieve it during the procedure?

Mirra, you'll do just fine chick. After a course of DHEA, who knows, anything's possible - look at Nicks, 6/6!! 

Just to bore you all again with my latest jabbing disasters... started off cutting thumb on those stupid snapper heads (forgot to use the cover), did the Menopur stuff ok, but that Cetrotide was a real buggar. I definitely think they should show you what to do, but in my case nobody has, as am buying drugs from much cheaper place (Mirra, y'know Ali's pharmacy in Shadwell, he's lovely)so don't think they can be too arsed at ACU! Anyway, was about to inject the Cetrotide when i noticed a 0.5cm air bubble lurking underneath the plasticy cover of the syringe, concelaed from view, even tho' i'd already squirted out some liquid to expel them. So got in a sweat about that as thought i might have died & then about fact i kept on losing more liquid in an attempt to get rid of it, but the damned thing wouldn't budge! Anyway, ended up calling (doctor) dad to get advice and told me to draw right back again and expel all the air a second time. Sure i lost about half the liquid but hey. I seem to be jinxed - or just plain crap at injections. Thank God i never considered medicine.  


R xx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Oh Rooz - you make me laugh!   Hope you got it right in the end.  You need to inject about 10ml of air into a vein to get a good going 'air embolism' so don't worry about it too much.  
LB - sorry I never answered you hun   Yes was on 450 Menopur last time as well but then I had 6 amps x 14 days where as this time I have had it reduced gradually so alot less.  A good sign I think.  Are you DHEA'ing? I can't remember who is and isn't  
OMG Mirra!  666   You see I told you seven wasn't lucky.  By the way my bub's were only one off a dodgy 7 today so keep an eye for me girls.  Bloody well wishers!  
I'm gonna do a diary this time!  
Going to bed now.
Nicks


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Look as I speak someone has sevened me.


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Sorted your bubbles nicks!!  And good luck tom! 
Also good luck for you to Kirsty 
Rooz think you need some training for those injectons!! 
Think i'm gonna get some DHEA do you think 6wks is enough time for it to work? As my cons said i shouldn't wait more than 4 mths to try again and its already been a month!!
 Everyone else hope you are all well  xxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Well as part of the trio of sixes you are no position to fret about numbers!  

I'm DHEA-ing, Nicks! Well I will be once they arrive...  

Rooz, you flooz! you can inject all the air you want - it's not going into a vein. That's what i was worried about, but it doesn't matter a bit, says my nursey.

Laura - EastEnders stinks! I can't watch it - I'd slash me wrists i reckon. I was SUCH a fan from the beginning, too... In fact, I spend so long on this site I don't watch much, anymore! you lot are much more entertaining...

merse, you could do as little as two weeks on DHEA to make a diff, so I've read, so go for it.

Bugger, I'm kacked.
Decided to start writing the book of my IF experiences finally, and I've got quarter way through a chapter - bah! It's exhausting!

I shall speak to you all tomorrow, my little incubators.

xxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

I'm off to bed to nite nite!!  xxxxxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Good Luck Kirsty and Nicks for tom..

Nick - do you know how your little embies are doing?  How many cells should they be by now?  No I'm not Dhea'ing... I have wheatgrass and zinc... but I am thinking maybe I could be tempted!

Off for Er now! X


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi all
No update on embies yet LB. Spose will find out today.  Hope they are doing the right thing. Was dreaming about it all last night (and they were all rubbish in my dream.........   )  Had my botty bullet this am!  
Mirra - they do take a while to arrive cos they come from the US  
Merse - go for it - 6 weeks is better than nothing   ta for bubbing me hun!
Kirst - good luck!  You've probably had it done by now.  
Mirra - book sounds interesting.  will you mention us from the PR thread?!  
Belly feels a bit better this am  
Update later 

Nicks


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hee! Botty bullet? THAT's going to have to go in the book!

Yeah, I'm going to dedicate it to the top birds on FF, and include loads from here. Hopefully generate some revenue for the site if I can - that would be ace!

So you must be getting transferred tomorrow, then? Good stuff! Or even - _gasp _ - blasts? Could this be true, us PRs getting to blast stage?

I do hope so, mate.

xxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Its today at one o'clock!!!!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Yaroo! Welcome home, embies!

Enjoy - it's a special moment when they go back in.

Did they say how many cells? Whether the others are looking good too?

xxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Haven't had any updates since the fertilisation phone call.  Fingers crossed


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Keeping everything crossed for you nicki    xxxx


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

hope all goes well today Nicks - sounds like you're all ready to go, botty bullet and all! ( god, that's such a great name..) Enjoy the reunion.  

Mirra, yes book idea sounds fab - so our resident novelist, what chapter are you on now?! I admire writers so much, i just wouldn't have a clue where or how to start a book. Will you add in a bit of a plot, maybe some potentially life threatening hospital cock-ups and sordid affairs between the staff, or will it be a true to life affair?!! 

Hi Merse.... enjoying life in Basingstoke today? Great we've had some sun this morning, always helps. So, DHEA or no DHEA?? 6 wks must be worth a shot surely?


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi Rooz yes lovely day today in lovely Basingstoke!!  Been for a swim at the Aqua drome this morn  as trying to get fit and lose a bit of weight!! Off to work this afternoon till 8pm tonite!!!  What do you do work wise? xxxx


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

well, work wise, doing v little today - taking a bit of time out between scans to remain calm and collected! Luckily it's a bit easier to do this than it used to be, as DH and I now run a business in Old Basing - quit our desk jobs in London for the country life!! It's a bakery/deli/sandwich shop....you may know it?!!


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

sorry Merse, v rude of me, i didn't ask what you do?   How come you have to work 'til so late?


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Nope can't say i do!!! Sorry! But will keep eyes open if i go to Old Basing!!  
Enjoy your time off!  I'm a hairdresser i work for myself going to peoples houses, so i work late a couple of eves a week!!! xxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Does anyone know if you can take wheatgrass and DHEA at the same time? xxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Merse - wheatgrass and DHEA no problem.  Could do with a mobile hair cut as I cancelled my appt yesterday due to belly ache!    Still no-one is going to see me til next week cos I'm resting up.
Is there a bakery called Floozie Roozie's then?   Will have to ask for top tips for my early retirement plan of running a tea shop!
Well girls back from ET and its good news!  Have one 7 cell and one 8 cell on board and they were 'perfect'    ET was really quick and easy unlike last time.  Phew!  And I had a big hug from the consultant when I left.   Lay down for about an hour and they brought us tea! The other embies weren't good enough to freeze as only 5 cell and some fragmentation.  Am so pleased with 2 good ones though.  So 2WW for me now and test Tuesday 3rd July.  Will write my diary later.  Back to do some more chilling now!  
NW


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

Hi girls, EC today and they got 6 eggs which is great, sperm was fine so just need the little buggers to do their work tonight and keep everything crossed.  Was petrified beforehand, but can't remember a thing and not too uncomfortable now, although haven't tried sitting yet, was really uncomfortable in the taxi, felt every pot hole on the way home. 

Wondering about going to work in the morning, not sure i want to be at work if the news is bad in the morning - what did you guys do, is it normal for none to inseminate?

Congratulations Nicki 2 good quality, you can't get a better result than that - now the long wait, hopefully will be joining you on thurs/Fri.  

Rooz - i only had 4 at the first scan, so 6 is great.


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Kirst - that's brilliant news   6 is great!  I hope they do their stuff overnight!  Might not be so great to go to work.  I was off anyway but I would have been in too much pain.  Also it is a very emotional phonecall even if its great news - I was still blubbing   and shaking   also they wanted to phone me at home for this reason.  Fingers crossed for you hun.  Each step is a hurdle but you've come this far  
Nick


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Nicks -  great news -  congrats! Now the worst bit! We are due for  BFP I think.  

Kirsty - Great news... 6 is a fab number.  I wouldn't go to work unless you really have to.. you should be resting and trying to heal yourself ready for the beans to get back on board.  You have had a minor op remember so should rest up.  

Merse - You over the hangover?

Mirra - I've read a couple of fertility books.. the stork club was really good that was a true story.

Kerry - Hope your having a nice time with your family.

Odette - How you doing?

That everyone?  I'm getting worried about my next cycle... even though its ages away... youlots are getting all these eggs and I only got 4 last time and they were crap... say I get none this time.  I just can't se why I'm bothering, surely if I just do the same then I will just get the same or worse.  

My friend at work's wifes waters broke.. she is only 16 weeks, the baby is still alive but will probably die very soon, she won't have medical intervention due to religous reasons.  How horrible, they keep doing scans everyday and the little one is still moving about.  I guess there is still hope? Lets hope for a miracle.


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Laura thats so sad  will hope for a miracle 
Yes over hangover actually having first glass of wine since!! 
Nicki and Kirsty thats fantastic news for you both   Nicki keep your feet up and relax and Kirsty i couldn't work the day after as had stomach pain but was advised not to before so i'd already cleared my diary.
Mira hows book going? 
lol and  to everyone xxxx


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

Maybe i'll go in after the call, probably be a bit emotional either way.  Just realised i'll have to take Thurs/Fri off as well given the acupuncture before and after the transfer, so should go in for a couple of days this week.  Haven't told either of my bosses what i'm up to so it's a bit difficult working round everything.  Can't wait for my holiday the week after next when i can just relax.
take care
Kirstie


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

I was advised to take day off in between EC and ET then at least 5 days to do nothing except keep your feet up!!  xxxx


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

Nicks, that's fab, well done you!! You must be chuffed - now just rest up and start bonding with those babies. (oh,and my top tip to you would be don't EVER run a tea/coffee shop... i had all those romatic ideas about how it would be and the reality's never quite the same!!)

Kirstie - congrats on getting through today with 6 eggs. I'm sure you'll get enough, just keep willing those wrigglers to do thier jobs. Good luck for that call tomorow hun'.   

Merse, that must be great being able to choose more or less when you take appts ..... as you're "in the know", what d'you think of Box in town? Any good or slightly overpriced snipping??! Oh and definitely come in to us if you're ever in Old Basing, it'd be great to meet you in person.  

Mirra, how's the penning going?!

LB... how you doing? So sorry to hear about your colleague's sit. - what a nightmare, that's just so heartbreaking. 
Don't fret about numbers before you've even started tx anywhere. Look at Nicks, her response improved on the same drugs, didn't it? Oh, and sorry i forgot to answer your qu. last time about GIFT - it stands for Gamete Intra-fallopian transfer and involves doing an EC under G.A, quickly analysing them and then mixing up to 3 of them with DH's sperm before reinjecting back into fallopian tubes via laporoscopy. My clinic felt this is a better option for cases where egg numbers and possibly quality, may be low as it involves less handling of the eggs and they're only kept outside their natural environment for a really short time. Problem is you never know if they ever fertilise or not so if it all fails there are fewer answers as to why. Odds given are obviously less good in normal (non P.R) cases but might be better for P.R's.....we'll see. 

Right, off to eat now - managed to do injections pretty easily this eve so gave myself a pat on the back for that.   May consider a career in medicine after all. 

Rooz xx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Mmmm Box is good but i think over priced!! I think there are just as good places for less money!!  Will pop in if down that way who shall i ask for The Floozie!!!!!  Glad injection went well, but i should give up any notions of medicine!!!  xxxxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hello dears!

Book's going ok - got 2,500 words down at the mo - only another 57,500 to go!  

It's quite exhausting though, remembering what happened at each stage - just doing the vas reversal bit, and that was five years ago, so really scratching my memory.

Oh Laura, your poor colleague and his poor wife. It just makes you shrivel up inside to think how much pain they're going through. Though I just can't see why you would refuse medical treatment for religious reasons. Imagine going through all that then not letting the hospital do everything possible?  Still, it's not for me to judge.
Hey bird - don't go going all negative on me now! You and I are going to take DHEA this time - mine arrived in the post today - and get six eggs each, too. Possibly more!

Kirstie - well done! Six is a great number! No fertilisation is really rare with that number of eggs. I got four and three were good enough to inject - two fertilised with really crappy sperm, and one became a viable embryo. Considering the quality of the sperm, it's a bit of a miracle, and you don't have that issue, thank God.
Get some wine down your neck while they're out, and you'll sleep like a baby before The News tomorrow.
I went to work the next day, and phoned in. Fortunately it was good news, but i don't think I'd do that again!

Well done on your jabs Rooz! It comes back to you, what to do.

Nicks, have you got your foot up, with those perfect embies on board? Well done bird - that is fantastic! We'll have you 666 girlies preggers this time.

Merse, I just carried on as normal through the whole thing - it was so anxiety-ridden I was glad to have something to keep my mind off things.

Hey KJ, Odette, peeps - how are you all?

xxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Mirra - reasons are she won't have the abortion they are recommending.. if it comes out now it will die, but while it is still moving about on the scan it is alive and she can't kill it.  Heartbreaking.  I know I will order my DHEA, but my embies where really poor, they were only 2 cell at day 2, at least al yours were 4 cell.  I just feel I can't put myself through all the dissapointment abd heartache.  Just having a low day.. I have them alot if I'm honest!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Well I only had one, which was six cell. But I am hoping for MUCH better results this time, after DHEA.
Ach, crap - that's awful they're recommending an abortion - it's still moving! Whatever happened to the Hippocratic oath, where they try to keep people alive whatever?
I didn't understand the situation - I absolutely agree with them to refuse an abortion.
Mracles can sometimes happen, surely?

I know what you mean about low days. I wish there was something that just picked one up and infused one with enthusiasm again.

I must admit I feel better this week, now I've made a decision about my next tx and starting the book.
I always felt worse when I hadn't decided on a course of action.
Unfortunately you're stuck till your tubes are sorted, aren't you? But maybe you could formulate plan A and plan B?
Have some WINE dear - and SNACKS. At least treat yourself to something you like, eh?
xxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Mirra- infortuantly I have been indulging in a bit too much wine and nibbles!  Turning into a fatso and starting to look preg which in my weird warped mine I kind of like and keep rubbing it and thinking maybe my IVF did work and the preg tests and the periods inbetween are all wrong!!    As for the lady I think they call it an 'induction' rather than abortion but means the same at 16 weeks it can't survive, just if stays there and she gets an infection due to her waters breaking she could get septacemia which is fatal.  Tough one.  They have given the baby less than 1% chance of surviving inside until it is big enought to be born safely... but as she says... that is still a chance.  I feel terrible as was so jealous when  I heard she was preg.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

It's how you get when you go through IF, isn't it though? *Shudders*
I felt sooo jealous of dh's ex wife when she was pg. She went the whole nine months and then the baby died inside her - blood clot. She had to give birth to it.
I felt so bad for my previous jealousy.
But ever since I have had to put up with a colour picture of her dead baby in my stepkids' rooms. I think I've atoned for my badness, somehow.
xxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

OMG thats horrid.. isn't it?? A photo of a dead baby??  Or am i over reacting?  

Anyway I'm fed up and off to bed.. hopefully tomorrow will be a brighter day?

Night ladies.  XX


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

No, I don't think you're overreacting at all - I've lived with that photo for four years now - I Photoshopped out his blue cheeks so he looks alive, but I still find it such a shock to see the picture.
I actually Photoshopped the pic for his ex, thinking, whatever helps her...
Didn't realise she'd frame two for the kids.

Tomorrow will certainly be a brighter day!
On the plus side, I've written 3,500 words already on my book.
It's coming surprisingly easily!

Sleep well, birdie - sweet dreams.
xx


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

The dead baby thing is a bit gruesome, even for her other kids i would have thought! 

After 1 glass of wine and half a sleeping tablet, still had a shocking nights sleep and then came into work late, felt so nervous I thought i was actually going to be sick, it was worse that exams, driving test and wedding day rolled into one - can't imagine how bad i'm going to be during the dreaded 2WW.  

Anyway the good news, luckily just before I went into a meeting, was that 4 eggs have fertilised - can't describe how relieved i was - although I know there are lots of steps still to go.  So having ET on Friday at 9.30am, going to listen to your suggestions and book the day off so at least i have Friday and the weekend to relax before going back to work next week.  

So just need to keep everything crossed that i do a Nicki and have 2 good ones to go back.  Husband wants to go out and celebrate tonight, wish i didn't feel so snotty still so i could enjoy it properly, but going to go as I think we need to celebrate the little sucesses - it's been a hard few weeks to get to this stage (but I don't need to tell you guys this!)

Thanks so much for all your support to date, it really has helped - hopefully as time goes on I will be able to repay some of it to you all. 
take care
Kirstie


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Kirsty thats fantastic news, i had 4 fertilise on my first go and 3 made it so think you can def go out and celebrate!!! 
How awful the dead baby photo surely the kids wouldn't really need reminding of it?!? 
Glad you are doing well with your book Mir i'm sure it must be therapeutic to get it all down on paper?
Laura how are you feeling today hon?  Is it a good day? I know exactly how you feel one day i think i can cope with more tx or the thought of never having my own children, then the next i think i can't do it again and all i see is babies and want to burst into tears!! 
Nicki hows the incubating going 
Rooz whens your next scan?
 to everyone else  xxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

I've just ordered my wheatgrass and was going to order my DHEA but am confused  how much should i be ordering and how many mg? 
xxxxxxxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Merse - get 25mg, I think they come in bottles of around 300 so that should keep you going for a bit!   Not sure about wheatgrass.
Kirst - well done hunny   4 embies - excellent news.
LB - doesn't sound good news for your work friend.   Don't like thinking about all things that can go wrong. Phantom pregnancy much better option  
Rooz - waiting eagerly for next update and how are you getting on with even more ampoules to mess with? 
Mirra - its a nice idea to get a pic of the stillborn child I spose but that does sound a little like a horror film in your house.   Hope the book is coming along nicely  
My mum is here to look after me for a few days.   DH has gone off to Stroud, least I don't have to wait 30 mins for a cuppa with mum!  We've been through all the 'how does the washing machine work , hob ignition work, jumping at mobile phone texts' things so hopefully it will start improving soon.   Love her to bits!  Shes doing dinner tonight, washing up, doing the washing - fab!
Love to everyone else   
Nicks


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Think somone has done my bubbles 7 deliberately - cos I wrote in my diary it can't be lucky for all of us can it?!   If not, what is this obsession with lucky numbers, colours, charms, prayers etc cos I'm just not part of it!  Maybe Zita logged on  
Nickster


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Done your bubs again!!!  Sounds nice having mum to look after you DH's are a bit rubbish at that!!  In my 2ww my mum came round to look after me for the afternoon and wouldn't let me go down stairs in case i fell!! What she thought would happen i don't know and i live in a town house so not using stairs was not an option!!! 
Will get ordering DHEA still feel a bit funny about taking it but if it works i'll give anything a go!!  xxxx


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Nicki & Kirsty - delighted to hear it is going so well you must be chuffed

Roozie - fingers crossed - defo off to a good start. If you don't mind me asking what clinic are you at. The reason I ask is I am going to try and persuade my consultant to give me clomid + menopur. I know a few ladies who have done 5 days of clomid and then changed to Menopur ( including Miranda) and a lady on another board at the lister who did clomid at the same time as Menopur which I think you are doing. The added clomid certainly seems to get better results than the clomid on its own.

A big hello to everyone else - have to dash as its Fat Class tonight and I missed last week. Have been very bad so expecting a big weight gain and as its not long to the holidays.

Pam x


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi Pam - good to hear from you! Enjoy Fat Club!     
Yes Merse it is nice having her here. She does make me laugh   I'm having all my food wants turned into cravings already!!   Bit early yet mum!
Been having what I thought were uterine contractions this afternoon so already I have turned into crazy mad 2WW peroson thinking my embryos will be expelled!  God I hate it   Have had an extra botty bullet which seems to have helped  
Ta for bubs - its good to have variation between 0 and 9 so I spose occasional 7's are acceptable  
 
Nicks


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Hmmmm.. fat club... maybe I should join one of those too?  Been eating and drinking far too much.  DP just offered to go get me a bottle of wine and I have said no... trying to lose a few pounds.... wish i'd said yes now though!!

Kirsty - Graet news.. 4 gives you plenty of room to move.  

Nicks - How you doing... glad to hear the madness has set in!  

Mirra - hows the book doing?  Are you going to write about us in it?? Your lovely FFs!! Have you heard about the complaint yet?

Flooz- I had lessons from the nurse on my menpour (and I bought it from Ali!) and I managed to cut my thumb and finger and bleed everywhere!!  Its tricky stuff!!  But after a few days its easy... you know if you look under the top bit there is a slit in the plastic bit where you can push the needle right to the edge and stops too many bubbles lets you get right in there so you don't miss a drop!

Hello eveyone else!!


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

Hate to ask but has anyone else had really bad wind after EC, can't work out if it's the op or the progesterone pessaries (or botty bullets which is a brill name) - or maybe it's neither!!!!!

What is a normal ratio of fertilised eggs to embryo?  Is it realistic to hope for 2 good ones?  As you can tell one little victory and i'm  starting the next lot of worry about whether none of them will make it to Friday - no wonder people describe it as a rollercoaster.

Am going out to dinner with husband and am going to have some champagne to celebrate getting this far, even though i'm absolutely knackered and would rather watch a bit of crap telly. 

How nice to have your mum there -although mine would drive me nuts and i've just found out my husband is going to be travelling for work all week next week so will have to look after myself during week 1 (although there are some benefits of course of having some peace and quiet and not having to think about anyone else).

Best wishes to you all!!


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

sh*t, just lost a really long post right at the end when i was posting up a link. Grrrr. You've all been spared anyway so here's a quickie instead!

Pam, here's the link to my clinic, (i'll do this now in case the same thing happens again!) it's the ACU, part of UCH on Grey's Inn Rd.

http://www.conception-acu.com/

Kirstie, congrats, you must be relieved. All looking good then for Friday. Enjoy the champers tonight anyway... 

Nicks, glad you've got mum to take care of ya!! Aren't mums just great??!!

Mirra, that dead baby pic must be a little spooky.. i'm afraid it reminds me of that Nicole Kidman film (The Intruders or somethng..?) where they stumble across photo albums of dead Victorian folk who are kind of pictured sitting up having lunch, dead.
You know the one?! Glad penning going well today - at this rate you could still make the short list for the Booker prize!!

LB, thanks for that sneaky little slit tip - i hadn't spotted that but will have a butchers tomorrow 'cos i always have grief from the final few drops!!. Tonight's went remarkably OK, so sorry to disappoint you Nicks!! That career change into medicine may still be beckoning.

Merse, thanks for confirming my theory about Box...! I might have to book you then if you operate over in this neck of the woods? Could do with some new and exciting hair style, had the same pony tail since i was about 12!!!

Well, had scan no. 2 today - no new follies, just the 4 + 2 as before, so was disappointed in one way but relieved the 6 are still there. I have a feeling the 2 lefies aren't gong to grow much form noises the cons. was making 'cos she said we might end up with 4 that'll hopefully be suitable. How she knows that already i don't know btu anyway she said Sunday will be final decision day on tx going ahead, probably GIFT. I'm a bit worriedf about my lining as well tho' as she commented on it being v thin still...can this jeopardise the cycle if it doesn't thicken up enough does anyone know??

off for some food now & an early night, i'm pooped after today's excitement.

Rooz xx

/links


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hello!

Kirstie, the wind is normal - ouch. It's the result of the botty bullets indeed - hideous, ain't it?
There's no such thing as normal in this game, unfortunately - you'll just have to wait and see with every bloody stage. That's another erason this is all so agonising, really.
Hope you have good news about their development.    

Laura, I got a letter back which said sorry, but not from the individual concerned and in such a way that it basically exonerated the clinic.
It came on the day of my BFN.
Whoops! Bad timing! So I rattled off another letter, addressing each point, and finally threatening to report the bloke to the BMA and the HFEA. Surprisingly enough, I had a personal apology from him that week... I'm now waiting for the third letter from the clinic manager before I write back, though an apology was what I was after, after all, and I'll leave it there I think.

Oooh, Pam - Fat Club sounds nasty! I think we should be put to sleep for a couple of weeks - I can stop smoking and you can stop eating in our sleep! MUCH easier...
How much do you want to lose?

Merse, I felt odd about ordering something not licensed here, but my consultant at the Lister said it would be ok, and I felt better about it after that.

Nicks, how's the patient? is mummy making you lots of nice grub?

xxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Rooz - you still have few days for your lining to thicken hun.  Mine went from 6.9 to 10 in a couple of days, even a 24 hour later scan had made a difference.  Think they say 1mm per day.   When is your next one? 
Kirst - hope you had a nice dinner last night   and the tummy pains are not too bad. Cyclogest are pretty evil - are you doing front door or white poo door?  
Rooz/Merse - is Box on the north downs way?  I think i might have been there many moons ago when I was a student.
Feeling alot better today.  Back to being sane - it won't last. Just been chilling again, mum looking after me.  Been really nice.  She goes home tomorrow. Have been texting my ICSI friend who is due now -she's not even asked how I am getting on   Is it that easy to forget all about it?
Hi to everyone else.  How is the pill popping going??

Nicks


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Thanks for the info Roozie and I have my fingers crossed all six grow big and fat. Come on.

Talking about fat - put on 4 lbs last night, well over the last two weeks I mean. Holidays fast approaching so if I can do 2 lbs a week from here on in I could be a stone lighter.

Fed up today - went to the clinic to discuss my next treatment. I think I am too much up my own a**e sometimes as I had already decided I would like the clomid + menopur short protocol. Anyway to cut a long story short the consultant said they follow the NICE guidelines and there is no clinical evidence that clomid + menopur works any better than menopur alone and it is that short protocol that my clinic offer. He had also never heard of DHEA and would not recommend using it as this is not even mentioned in the NICE guidelines. I really like my clinic but think I may get an appointment at the Lister and ARGC just to see what they say. Really don't want to move my clinic gets good results and is very near to where I live.

Sorry for the me post catch up properly next time.

Pam x


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Hi Nicki,

Enjoy your last day of pampering - back to reality tomorrow!

Pam x


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi Pam
Sorry you didn't get what you wanted from your local clinic.  I cannot believe a fertility consultant has not heard of DHEA - sounds very bizarre.    I can see what they mean about NICE guidelines though - usually this will mean that in all the clinical trials the evidence points to 'no benefit' for Clomid +Menopur.  For new treatments like DHEA though they aren't even going to be reviewed til the trials are done (which will be years).  My consultant did mention it to me, but I went on it with my own decision. It will be up to you whatever you do at the end of the day.  Were you on just Menopur before?  I spose you would want to try something else to see if it helped its understandable.  Hope you get some better more positive advice soon  
Nicks


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## Pamela39 (Apr 6, 2006)

Hi Nicki

Sorry he has heard of DHEA but not in the treatment of IF with poor responders. I am going to keep taking it as my chances are c**p anyway. 

Yes I was on 450 menopur last time but this go will be my first on SP.

Are you a doctor Nicki?

Pam x


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Pam - Nicki is our very own 'gas girl'!  So yes she is our medical consultant!!    My clinic are very by the book too but its NHS so I guess they have to be.  ARGC are alot more forward thinking, I spoke to Lister and although they wil treat anyone I'm not sure they do anything different as such.  Care Notts are pretty good too always trying out new stuff.

Nicks - How are you doing growing them little beans??  One of my FF also is preg and texts me things like... 'everything is so wonderful for us now, our world is perfect' well thanks for that.. I feel **** thanks for asking!!  

Rooz - don't worry about your lining too much, you can coast and take stuff to improve it i think and your beans won't need it until a few days after tranfer anyway... they'll just be floating about!

Mirra - I would have wanted some free treatment not just an apology!


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

hi all,

Pam, thanks for the follie fattening wishes!! Shame we can't do a fat swap then - you shed your pounds and my follies gain them!!  
Sorry you're getting fed up.....You did make me laugh with your up your own a*se comment  But seriously,clinics should appreciate that we aren't passive creatures who will just sit back and take what is dealt to us. We are IF crusaders and have battle plans, we have to - it's our way of exerting some control in this otherwise highly unpredictable pile of IVF poop. I had to challenge my original clinic (one Merse is at now) about doing SP - they didn't even offer that protocl until i pushed the issue. So it does sometimes pay to ask the questions and at least hear what they have to say, even if it does make you feel like you're being up your own ****!! Anyway, i hope you feel happier now you've enquired at least and had an answer. Even if you don't do the clomid+menopur combo changing to SP alone could make a real difference to you, couldn't it? So if you generally feel happy at that clinic, why not give it another go there and avoid all the upheaval of changing to somewhere that may be no better, or worse? Where are you btw?

Nicks - glad you're feeling more chilled now after the ET. All good for those little embies who are probably quite liking being inside a calm, sane mummy!  Are you talking or singing to them yet?? (or is that only when the madness sets in...?) . Before i forget to ask, where were you studying gas? Reading? Box is town centre, Basingstoke, near the church if that helps?!.. Not sure it was there all those years ago tho' !!! 

Oh, thanks for the reassurance on the lining thing - tomorrow i have the next scan so will try to get better info on thickness and follie sizes, i hate having vague answers from them. (control freak i know) I feel pretty negative today about all this for some reason, just can't imagine those follies growing as they need to, i don't feel the dslightest thing around my ovaries, no bloating, no twinges, nothing. Is that normal? I'm also convinced my oestrogen will be really low like last cycle, meaning they're all empty follies as well - having that retested tomoorow too.   Sorry, enough ranting.

Mirra, LB, Kirstie, how you all doing today peeps? Mirra, nice one on the complaint front. 1-0 to you by the sounds of it! 

Rooz x


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

...thanks LB, that's if i make it to GIFT. Still can't really belive i will, obly time will tell i guess. It is hard when yo uknow others who are full of the joys of Spring with buns in the oven. Bloody hard. But it'll be us one day and hopefully we'll be more sensitive! 

R xx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi Rooz, think you have times when you can't feel much going on! Are you taking DHEA? 
Pam clinics only offer what they do not whats necessarily best for us i think its good to at least have a consultation else where, even if they say the same thing its good to have second opinion! 
Miranda where are you is your book taking up all your time? 
Nicki enjoy the pampering!!  I was doing a friends hair last nite and she spent the whole time telling me how wonderfull it was being a mum and how it changed as they got older but was great as it was always different!! I wanted to scream are you thick or do you not understand my situation!!!  But i just said Mmmm a lot and she eventually shut up!!!!!! 
Laura how you feeling today? 
 to everyone else! Just off to aerobics  chat later xxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Just a quick reply to Pammie - SP will get you more eggs, DHEA better eggs?? - so hopefully it will be much better for you!


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

Hi girls - hope you're all ok, and if not that it's only temporary.  

You'll all be thrilled to know that the wind seems to have subsided (front bottom to answer your question Nicki), so maybe it wasn't pessary related.  Had a nice dinner and a couple of glasses of wine last night, but still full of cold and husband (i presume DH but what does it stand for before i use it?) wanted to play so took my brother out for beer and came home ****** (feels his job is done and has fallen off the wagon spectacularly - not that he really ever got on properly) and i got my wish of watching rubbish telly.  Had a crappy day at work, ended up bursting into tears in front of my boss - really professional not! - he responded by asking me where i'm going on holiday, but then we already think he has Aspergers so no suprise.  Think it was actually work rather than IVF relaxed - very glad i've booked tomorrow off - wish i never had to go back.

So ET day tomorrow at 9.30 - feeling nervous - means i have accupuncture at 7.45am how ridiculous, it better work to justify me getting out of bed that early on a days annual leave.  My accupuncturist assures me it has to be directly before and not 12 hours before, i.e tonight.  However, it does get to the point that you think i may well have ****** away £3500 what's another £150.

Hope some of the little blighters have grown some cells since Wednesday.

Rooz - everything lining and follicles seem to speed up a lot in the last few days, i did 13 days of injections before they decided everything was ready to go ahead, so don't think there's a cut off.  Interested to hear you had your oestrogen tested - i never did.
take care

Pam - are you at one of the other London clinics?  i'm at Guy's but then it's my first IVF so can't comment on how flexible they are on changing protocols, hopefully won't have to find out.


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

nicks - Is it still 12 days til you test?!!!!   Surely not?? Feels like years ago you have EC... you had a late transfer too about day 4?  So you can knock a couple of days off your 2ww I believe!!?


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Official test date is Tues 3rd July which is 14 days post 3 day transfer - yes it is late isn't it.  I normally get AF   14/15 days post ov/EC so that would be Sat.  We are away that weekend at Centre parcs.  Not sure what I will do - Friday or save some Sunday early morning wee?  Or wait.  If I wait and haven't had AF it will be looking positive I spose?  Argh - I don't know.   Sure you guys will start goading me soon  
NW


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Nicks - TEST now!!!!   Only kidding. Thing is I have a short cycle and didn't get AF until I came off the botty boms, i think they delay it anyway.  Be nice to be PUPO over you holiday... but then if (fingers crossed its not) neg then you can get absolutely rat faced all weekend! Decisions... I bet you test friday though


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## kjones (Feb 7, 2007)

Hello girls

Just wanted to let you know i am still alive!!  Managed to get hold of my sisters laptop so thought I would drop you a quick line.

Been in birmingham now nearly a week and have had a lovely time and dont want to go home!  Spent loads of money on new clothes but didnt realise how much weight i had put on so definitely going back on my diet when i get home.

Went to see my dr on Friday we have decided to stop my periods for 6 months with injections to try and clear up my endo and then have our third and final attempt.  I asked about supplements to try and bring my fsh down but he said that they wont work.  I have had my first injection already and have been having really bad hot flushes!!

Well i had better go my nephews are queing up to get on msn!!

Speak soon
Kerry
xxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi Kerry, glad you are having a good time, when do you have to go back? do you know what stage your endo is?
Kirstie, glad bottom burps are betta  and good luck for tom!! 
Nicki think i'd wanna know before i went away could be a fantastic wk end  or a fantastically drunk one!! 
xxxxxxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Girls i don't drink anyway!    
KJ - glad you are having fun in Brum.  Good shopping around! 
Kirst - good luck for tomorrow  
NW


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hello girlies!
Kerry - glad you're alive! Nice to hear you're having a lovely time at home. Sometimes it's the only place to be. Great to hear you're taking measures before the next lot, too - it'll make you feel you have a better chance and all.

Laura, you are   ! But yes, you should test 14 days after EC, Nicks. If only to stop yourself going   with the waiting! Bad enough waiting two weeks I reckon.

ugh, Kirstie, work is such a pain in the   isn't it? Particularly when you're dealing with plonkers like that.
That's pretty early, to be having needles stuck in you! Hope it does the trick - it's hideously expensive!

Merse - why are people so up their own   ? I have lots of friends who waved their kids at me like some kind of human totem - it used to make me soooo mad! They seem to have stopped that now - I must have finally got through to them...  

Rooz - a lining thickening dance for you:        
Are you on the brazils and pineapple juice?

Laura, I'm still waiting for that last letter from them, so you never know! though in all seriousness I think I'd feel very awkward indeed about being treated there after all this. Got to go for a scan there soon, and I'm going to feel very weird indeed about it!
Your FF friends - is she completely insensitive?  

Pam - how frustrating is it when they don't listen to you? Your clinic sounds like they have their heads rammed in the sand! Can you insist on the drug protocol of your choiuce, I wonder? Maybe your GP will prescribe you that Clomid - you only need to take it for five days after all. I think they ought to rename NICE, NASTY - National Association of Stupid Twits Yapping.

Odette, hello!

Is that everyone? 

xxxx


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

oh that was the price for the one before and the one after ET, otherwise astronimcal I agree


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

Aah, can't take any more of that. Just been watching "Make me a Baby" - are you lot watching it? Incredibly irritating, couples who have been trying to conceive for..... wait for it........ drum roll.................................one month! 

i say wait Nicks... like you say, if AF hasn't arrived by then you can feel optimistic , have a great w/end and not run the risk of any false indicators. Then again i am quite a boring old fart and not much of a risk taker so maybe you should test on the Friday after all...??! You still haven't told us where you were a student? C'mon, spill the beans.

Kirstie, sorry you were feeling so stressed today. What an odd remark by your boss??!!  (then again if he does have Aspergers that would explain alot - my niece has it unfortunately and when she was a bit younger, spent about 2 years dressing up in Victorian clothes and had a really full on Karl Marx obsession!) If it's any consolation, someone walked in on me today while i was having a blub in our big walk in freezer at work!! Anyway, you'll soon be reunited with your embies ... good luck tomorrow hun'. 

Jabs were another doddle tonight... have definitely cracked it now. I don't take any more nonsense from life threatening air bubbles or lethal sharp edges.  
Just hope hte nectar is working it's magic as i type and i'll see some fatter lining & follies tomorrow.

Night all, having an earlyish night so i'm hopefully less peed off and negative tomorrow.

R xx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Nicki you don't drink?!!??  WHY?
Miranda glad your still with us hows the book?  So many people with kids are up there own  it drives me mad sometimes!! 
xxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hope you feel betta tom Rooz  xx


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

and thanks for the dance Mirra!! Love the NICE renaming.. v. apt. 

R xx


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

& thx alot Merse - getting confused now, posts keeep crossing!! Our great IF minds obviosuly keep thinking alike and we're now writing synchronised messages.Right, that's the last one, jammies time, night all!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Och, A WHOLE MONTH?

Those poor dears...

No, not watching it - trying to keep up with you lot's taking all my telly time! I've even neglected Big Brother in my quest to keep on top of my threads.

Ah, that makes more sense Kirstie - thought it was a bit dear! If it works it'll all be worth it, I say. 

Merse, I'll crack on with the book in a while, and I have tomorrow off, so I intend to double the word count by tomorrow night. It's hard to get home from a desk job and look at the computer again, so I have to do it in manageable chunks, but I'm pretty fast, and it's flowing like anything. Hooray!

xxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Rooz - yeah I watched it - bit bollo*cks really - some of those people had been trying for a year anyway so how can they use the '85% should conceive in a year'?!   My friend Zita was on her best behaviour though!  And typically it was the fat, smoking, ex alcoholic couple that looked about 50 who got lucky (sorry to all on this thread with those afflictions!)
Trained in London    Shall I request you an application form as you are doing so well with the jabbing? Got any EWCM yet?
Don't drink Merse cos I get bad reflux and have been taking tablets for 3 years!  Used to love it but not when it burns like acid!  Just smell it mostly now and help people chose their wines.    
Mum is stayin til Sat now - it does limit my internet surfing! But at least tomorrow's tea will be cooked  
Night all
N


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Good Luck tom Kirsty! XX


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Night all  xxx


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

Thank you all for your best wishes yesterday.  Up bright and early for accupuncture, was so tired while I was having forgot I had two in my ear and rolled on to them and made my ear bleed!!  

ET went OK (i think nothing to compare it to, so sure you will advise).  Had 1 x 6 cell, 1 x 5 cell and 2 x 4 cell - all grade 3 so had 2 biggest put back and all went smoothly, apart from having the ultrasound pressed on my bladder thought i was going to wet myself and kept wondering if anyone had actually peed on the surgeon before.  He says that the 6 cell has a 25% chance and the 5 cell a 10% chance which doesn't feel too bad given i thought we'd never even get to this point.  Usual (i believe) concerns about going to the toilet aftewards and losing them, now lying in bed eating cake - sure it must be good for you!  

Accupuncture at 3.30 and then my husband tells me (DH no-one replied - just wanted to check it wasn't dickhead before using it, although obviously sometimes does apply) he will look after me all weekend.  Also bumped into my boss on the way out of the hospital, now he's definitely going to think something is up, unfortunately i think he'll guess wrong and think i'm already pregnant and that's why i was crying yesterday. 

Any tips for this stage, does and don'ts for implantation?  Doc says i can test a week on Tuesday, so somehow I seem to have nearly caught up with you Nicki which seems odd - i did double check but he was adamant, so perhaps you can get away with Friday if that was your EC day!

I didn't know that was a side of Aspergers as well, i thought it was just an inability to emote or read other peoples - learn something everyday.  i'm getting confused about what everyone does, Rooz why have you got a walk-in freezer at work?  I'm a general manager at Guy's if you were wondering why i bumped into my boss at the hospital, upsides got 1 free IUI and very convenient for scans etc, downsides you think everyone knows because confidentiality is a nice idea, but not sure about the reality and you keep bumping in to colleagues with your husband in tow and you know they're either speculating or dying to find out why. Also unfortunately or maybe fortunately i don't don't manager Women's services.

Take care


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

Just read another post that talks about grade 1 embies, realised that might make my grade 3's sound bad, but he said 4 was the top so it's reasonable.


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Kirstieb said:


> Just read another post that talks about grade 1 embies, realised that might make my grade 3's sound bad, but he said 4 was the top so it's reasonable.


Some clinics grade with 4 as the top whilst others use the reverse, where grade 1 is the top (ours uses the grade 1 as top).

Good luck
Natasha


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Well done Kirst!   Now the madness starts!  You just rest up now and let them settle in.  My EC was Sat so that's my equivalent test day but that's when I'm away.  
DH is dear husband!  Sorry  
Have just had a major upset with work - told them would be off sick next week til Fri, then one of the consultants phoned back and said did I realise i was on call on Monday (yes of course) and would I be doing the on call? (No i am off SICK) or would I swap it?   (No because then I'm not having sick leave am I?  Besides I'm on annual leave at the mo anyway I can hardly phone around to find someone!)   I am really mad over the insensitivity of the one person in the department who knows what treatment I'm having.  Unbelievable    Sorry for major rant - feel much better now   I had instructions from my fert cons not to work because of exposure to anaesthetic gases etc.
Will go and do my hypno CD in a min in attempt to chill and calm down.  Chat later 

nicks


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

Ah the good old NHS, always making you feel guilty for looking after (or trying anyway) yourself - i wish someone would tell me to stay away - perhaps i could use risk of MRSA as an excuse!  I wish i'd asked beforehand, but as usual was really negative and thought we wouldn't have any embryos (and i used to think of myself as an optimist!), what did you do with the other embryos.  i asked if they carried on growing them to see whether they ended up being worth freezing and the embryologist said the chances were so low that they don't advise it - but that they were ours and therefore our decision.  As we all know doctor alwa ys knows best so we said OK fine, but now wondering whether we should have just seen what happened, given i've just been reading other posts of people that get pregnant with 4 cell embryos. 

thanks for clearing up the DH thing and the grading - it would be easier if they all used the same system!


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Ours were just left to perish I spose   I think the poorer ones can result in pregnancy if fresh but if they are not so great then after freezing they are a bit worse so obvioulsy not worth it.  
Yeah bl**dy NHS  
NDub x


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Kirsty that great news... 25% chance sounds great. Congratulations... you must now rest and I'm glad you are having some cake... I think that is needed in these situations. Try to enjoy the next few weeks of PUPO.  

Nicks - How you doing?  anything to report as yet? Any signs of complete bonkersness

Mirra - If your book gets made into a film can I chose the actress who plays my part!!!  Er maybe cameron diaz?  

Well I used to be a support worker for a girl with asbergers, I had her for 5 hours on a satuday and we just to do 'commmunity based' work and she would always wear a tiara and a long white gown! I was only about 18 at the time and I so worried people thought we were buddies!!  

Hi everyone else!!


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

sounds like my boss is very mild then, no dressing up in strange costumes -although who knows what he gets up to at home! 

What is PUPO - i wish i knew what everything means?


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Pregnant til proven otherwise  
Mirra - can I be played by Julia Roberts?  
NW


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

PUPO I like that idea


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

yo peeps!

A real quickie from me because fish pie and garlic dough balls await!!  

Glad to hear that everything went ok today Kirstie - that's brilliant then.. you have two decent embies back inside their mummy. I didn't know what PUPO was either but i definitely like that philosophy too.   To answer your question about why i have a walk in freezer at work (good question!), well, it's a bakery so we have all sorts of goodies stashed away there. It's a great place to go for a few mins peace and quiet when inane staff are doing mine and DH's heads in!! (unfortunately tho' i was discovered in there by one of them so was a bit embarrassing - pretended i was checking some stock but think they all had a rough idea what's happenning, and probably an even better one now!) 

Nicks, glad you've got your mummy for a bit longer! Mine's gone away on hol for a few days but i'm hoping to have her back by the time i need all that TLC next week.(there is always DH obviously but not quite the same as a clucking mummy is it?) 

Well, i had my third scan today and feeling more +ve about it all now. Was in a right old panick about it all yesterday for some reason! Folllies are still there, 4 on right, 2 on left, plus a tiddler that's just appeared - so technically now got 7 (woo hoo! Thank God it wasn't you Nicks) and are growing despite my certainty that they wouldn't be so thank phewy for that. Sizes range from 12-15mm at the mo - lining still quite thin - only 5.4, but hoping i ti wll catch up by nxt week. They're stimming me for an extra day so GIFT now scheduled for Wednesday provided final scan on Monday is ok. Yikes, can't believe i've got this far, quite chuffed really. Oh yes, also had another oestrogen level back and is 3050 - is that high enough d'you reckon??- i thought each follie was about 1000 if it contains an egg, so wondering if that's not great?? Anyone remember what their's was with 6 follies?

Hio to everyone else.. Merse, Mirra, LB, KJ, Odette, Pam hope you girls are good tonight? Oh, Mirra, bagsy Drew Barrymore.

R xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

So that's a 35 per cent chance overall Kirstie! yay! V good, I reckon. That's brought the odds up no end.
My husband thought DH stood for dickhead - he was quite annoyed!

erm... Cameron Diaz, Laura?   Julia Roberts, Nicks? Drew Barrymore, Rooz?  
I don't know if it would make a very good film, anyway! I'm nearly up to 10,000 words after a bit of a spurt today.
I've just got to the Lister bit, so i hope to make it at least 15,000 words by the time I get up to now...

I reckon if it's over 30,000 words it's long enough for a book, so I'll be throwing lots of FF stuff in as well, to brighten it up.
Imagine - I only started this on Monday! I can't believe how it's flowing out of me. Quite stressful, but cathartic too.

Nicks, what a load of winkers your work are! Mine were the same, until this point. They've suddenly changed their tune though - not sure why. think my boss's wife had a word with him and made him see why I was so stressed.
It adds so much to the pressure of having tx, too, but they'll never get that unless they go through it themselves.

Rooz - Mmmmn, bakery... All over to yours then, when we all get pg and need to celebrate with baked products!
xxxxx


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

forgot to ask you Nicks - what's EWCM. Something cervical mucus? Egg white cervical mucus? Getting warmer?

R.x


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Yes spot on Rooz!   Garlic dough balls!   sounds nice but I would die afterwards with my stomach  
How is everyone today??  Mum has gone home early today - can be on FF all day now!    No seriously it did me good not to be FF/BB obsessed over the last few days.  Got gardening revision though as my final exam has coincided with the 2WW again (last one was Feb 2WW).  Lots of revision time and it keeps me out of mischief!
Mirra - your film is gonna be fab.  Can my DH be Brad Pit please? (but lets not have Angelina in it thanks v much!    I think its gonna be a bit like Calendar Girls (only much younger of course)  Actually we should all chose english actors  
Kirst - hope you will be resting up today and being pampered by your 'dick head'!   PUPO!!!  
LB -your ticker doesn't seem to move!! when is your op? Have you sent DH to go and get a job in Derby yet? What plans for the weekend?  
Actually girls I think Rooz works in a mortuary cos they have big walk in freezers!  When I was a young doc I had to go and 'look' at someone in the mortuary and they store all the bodies on shelves which slide out on runners.  Anyway I was rushed off my feet and I tried to pull this bod out really quickly and it was so heavy it skewed to one side, came off its runners and nearly fell on top of me!   Had to call the technician to come and sort it out!    Thought you would all enjoy that story!
Kerry - hi, still shopping? Menopausal yet? Don't be buying crimpelene trousers and Bridget Jones knickers now!
Pammie. Odette, Hi girls   How's it going!  
Well enough chatting for now.  Got to go and pessarise now so lying still for 30 mins  

Nicks


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

sh*t Nicks, you've blown my cover, how did you guess? Might as well fess up now then. You see, we used to live next door to an undertakers when we were in London and ever, since DH and I have dreamed of running our own one. We were so fed up with arrogant, bolshy Yanks in our old lines of work that a quieter, more laid back kind of client seemed really appealing.   
But seriously, your morgue story did make me chuckle, the thought of a big stiff cadavre toppling on top of you and pinning you to the floor!!!   

So doc, on the old EWCM, why were you asking? Am i supposed to be getting it now.... not until i've triggered myself surely? Last night/today have been getting a bit of a low down ovulation type pain... those eggs better not get any ideas about hatching out early or there'll be trouble.!  

Enjoy your gardening revision - what kind of exam you doing? Is this in prep for a career change, so at long last you can live out your dream of hosting Gardener's World?!!   Don't blame you for wanting to give gassing the elbow... that was well out of order expecting you to come in on your 2WW "hols".  

Mirra, wow, you're really racing through it. You'll have that book sewn up in no time.  
Seeeing as we're on to male casting now, can i request Ralph Feinnes for my "dick head"? Ta.

Kirstie, hope those embies are nice and snug now. 

Hi everybody else, hope you're having pleasant Sat's. I'm off now to check up on my cadavres, 

Rooz xx


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2007)

Hi Ladies   can I join you?  Been lurking on this thread for sometime but only now decided to post.  

My story so far (I'll try not to bore you)...............  Been tttc for 3 years.  DH's SA was fine.  I had a lap and dye in Feb 07 where they found a hydro on my right tube which was subsequently removed.  My left tube is patent, but damaged - apparently I have stunted frimbia (sp?) which are the little fingers at the end of the tube that collect the egg.  Advised to try ivf.  Started at ACU UCH in May.  OST results indicated that I had low ovarian reserve (AHM  and a poor antral follicle count (2 on left ovary and 4 on right).  My fsh was 8.4.  I did, however, respond well to the Gonal F injections (hurrah, at last some good news!).  The scan also showed that I had a couple of cysts on my right ovary, but they weren't affected by the Gonal F so they were deemed to be non-hormonal cysts.

Doc advised that I should do the short protocol so I started stimming on 5 amps on menopur.  Had a scan on day 4 of stimming which showed nothing on my left ovary and 5 follies on my right - two of which were believed to be cysts.  My drugs were upped to 6 amps of menopur.  A scan 2 days later showed that the cysts had hardly grown.  My E2 was 600.  It was then that I was given the donor egg talk by the doc.  To say I was in shock was an understatement.  All the tests I'd had on the NHS had indicated that I was fine, now I was being told that my only real chance was with DE.  Thanks to the eternal optimism of my dh, who insisted that we keep on trying until it really was over - I continued stimming and had another scan and blood test in 2 days later.  The scan 2 days later showed 8 good sized follies and my E2 was 4060!  Hurrah - someone somewhere had heard my prayers/sobs of desperation.

Fast forward to EC and I managed to get 6 eggs - all from the right ovary (it would seem six is the lucky number on this thread!).  Miraculously all 6 fertilised and we managed to get 2 to blastocysts - the remaining 4 "perished" somewhere between day 5 & day 6. 

That seems to be where my luck ran out, as i bfn this week    Although in my heart I knew before the pg test that it hadn't worked, I was still devastated to say the least.  We have our follow up consultation on Monday and I'm very anxious about what the doc will say.  I'm not sure I'm ready for DE, but at the same time I'm not sure how many more times I can cope with this ivf rollercoaster.  To make matters even more complicated, we're moving to Hong Kong in July for 4 years for dh's job.  If at the follow up the doc thinks we're fine to continue ivf then we'll definitely go for it in HK.  From the research I've done, I don't think HK are as advanced in terms of ivf as the UK, but the tx is cheaper!  If DE is the only way forward, I'm not sure what we'll do.  I'm not sure HK does donor eggs for white Caucasians.  I'm white and my dh is indian.  If we had a chinese donor egg, we'd be like a Benetton advert!  Sorry, I hope I'm not offending anyone here, but I have to make light of this situation or I'd go crazy.  Roll on Monday, so we can decided what our next plan of action will be.

Anyway, enough of my doom and gloom.

Kirstie & Nicki - I hope you're bearing up on your 2ww and not going too mad.  Lots of      coming your way.

Roozie - we're at the same clinic.  Am willing your follies to grow   .  From my own experience I know they can late developers and then have a sudden growth spurt.  Will they still do GIFT even if you have 6 follies?  Surely 6 are enough for ivf.  

Miranda - your book sounds great.  Hurry up and have it published - I think I've read almost every book there is about ivf so to have one that is full of humour and not American (sorry if anyone's American!) would be great!    

Hello to everyone else.  

Emma


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Just a quick hello as got family round today and have to clean my house!! 
Welcome Emma, i'm sure the girls here can give you some good advice for your appointment they have helped me loads!! 
Kirsty well done fantastic news, hope you've got your feet up!! 
Rooz great news on scan! My lining took a while to thicken up first go but was fine by final scan!  Went past your bakery/funeral home Thurs looks very nice!!! 
Nicks are you looking after yourself? 
Miranda can't believe how much you've written!! Just trying to think of what actress for me Mmmmm how about Kate winslet 
Laura hows you? I hate my DH at the mo he is def a dick head!!!!  
 to everyone else xxxxxxxx


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

Welcome Emma, these girls know a lot more than me given it's my first IVF, but seems very early to be talking about DEs given you managed 2 Blastocysts which is much better than me, my consultant at Guy's seemed really optimistic that given what he terms success this time there would be no issue about trying again if it doens't work.

I'm sure i'll be devastated if it doesn't work but in a rare moment of optimism (these days anyway) at the moment i'm just feeling really pleased that we've managed to get two embryos on board it feels like a big success.  

Pampering brings to mind facials, foot rubs and massages, but i have had breakfast, coffee, laptop and papers in bed which you can't complain about, definitely more of a dear husband at the moment. This morning he was asking me whether i'd like a boy or a girl, how my tummy is feeling etc.  I think going through IVF process engages men in the pregnancy or TTC much more at an earlier stage than TTC naturally - my girlfriends report that their partners don't really get there heads around it until the baby head comes out!


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Kirst - yes after all these years DH seems a bit more interested in fertility issues these days! I think he was just in denial before/ never took any interest.   Breakfast and laptop in bed sounds cool!  
Emma - welcome!   Sorry to hear of your BFN   Expect you know all about us if you have been a lurker on this thread!  Currently all competing for a lead role in Mirra's IF movie! I am positive you will get good feedback on monday as if you managed to get 2 blasts then that's brilliant - it means you can still produce good quality eggs which is where the problems often lies in us with poor reserve.  What was your AMH out of interest? You may have just been one of the unlucky ones this time  
Been revising Lawns - yawn!  Still it keeps me occupied! Rooz - RHS general certificate in horticulture level 2   sounds posh!  Think it GCSE equivalent.
EWCM was the only 'sign' I got in the second week of stims!
NDub


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hello girlies!
And welcome to Emma - hello!

Nice to hear the PUPO girls are feeling upbeat. 

 at the cadaver story, Laura! Bet you needed a stiff drink, eh? heh.

Mmmn, lawns... not my strong point, Nicks! Mine's full of moss and weeds. But it's comfy to sit on, which is the main thing.

Emma, this isn't the end of the road, and if your dr tells you that they don't know what they're talking about. Six eggs is great, and to have two going to blasts, that's fantastic. You'd not do better with donor eggs, as they wouldn't be any better than the ones you just produced. It's just the luck of the draw - unfortunately blasts sometimes don't stick. Here's a   after your BFN - but think positive! The chances for blasts are about 70 per cent, so you're bound to get pg next time. That's the way i'd think of it, anyway!

I'd like to be an undertaker, too - they're some of the funniest people out. I did a vox pop for the paper once, and asked six undertakers what's the funniest thing they had happen at a funeral. One of them saud they'd had a wife push the mistress into the open grave!

I want Dustin Hoffman for my dickhead, personally. he looks like him!
It'll be a cast of thousands by the time you lot have finished!
So annoyed - got to 11,000 words last night and Word crashed, wiping the last 500. Got to go through the first scan and stimms again now  

xxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Mirra - Can Johnny depp be my husband in the film... oh and you can scrap Cameron Diaz.. I'll play my own part I think!    Remember to include the dildo cam.. you may have to get permission from Nicks though as it wa her invention I believe!

Emma - Choc - Fab Name!  You don't need to consider DE just yet. 6 embies is great, I only got 2 and was told it was worth another go. Also how was your op to remove you hydro... I have mind the end on August.. how long did you have to have off work?  Will I be ok to come on public transport over after the op?  Oh welcome!!  

Nicks - blasted op.... I know my kicker never seems to move   I am on the cancellation list though so maybe I'll get called up soon.  Maybe you could squeeze me in at your hospital  

Rooz the Flooz - how you doing? When EC?  Sorry I should know that, must be very soon?  

Merse - Sorry your DP being a dickhead!!!    Sorry that made me chuckle... I don't think they can help it!!

Odette & Pin -


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

hi again  

Where's today gone everyone? PUPO's i bet the time is starting to fly by for you isn't it? I hope so.   Would be s handy if we could forward wind our lives when we needed to - and of course play back the good bits as well!

Welcome Emma. So sorry to hear you've been through a ****ty BFN experience recently. I do hope that you believe us when we say you've done really well to have had 2 blasts, that's the most concrete proof you can surely have, that you are still up to the job! It may just take a few go's (which of course sucks), but while you have ovaries that can produce eggs and those egg fertilise, you have a real chance. So don't give up and be fobbed off by anyone - i'm sure they won't, the cons. at UCH seem pretty good and i don't see how they couldl justify going straight to DE talk after just getting 2 blasts - that would be crazy. FYI, I'm at UCH too, and by the sounds of it have a similar profile to you - my AMH was 9.1, latest FSH was 8.4 and i had an antral count of 5. In my case however they do seem reluctant to offer IVF and are all set to do GIFT with me next week. I'm wondering if they offered that to you as an option, seeing as we're pretty similar profile wise... I've 6 follies, so slightly less than the number you had, but they're still talking GIFT instead of IVF. Perhaps that's something they'll discuss with you on Monday as well? Are you seeing Dr. R or Dr. Serhal? (i'm seeing Dr. R and he seems to be an advocate of GIFT) Anyway, i hope you find it more +ve than you think, so chin up & good luck.    

Nicks - ooh, look at you then, all horticultured up! And there was me thinking it was just a basic certificate in old lady gardening!!!   I have to say, lawns do sound a bit dull, but i'm no green fingered Goddess like you and Mirra.    But seriosusly, at least it's a good way to keep you focussed on something else besides the obvious. Not too long to wait for your BFP now anyway...... 

Hiya LB, no probs, there's so much going on on these threads. My EC/GIFT is supposed to happen next Wed. depending on the outcome of Monday's scan. May be a chance they convert me to IVF but they seemed to think not at my last visit... we'll see - just relieved it looks like something's going ahead! 

Merse, so why's DH being a DH?! Don't worry about it, it's what DH's do!!  Hey, you should've popped in to see us last Thurs ( mind you that was the day i blubbed in my  freezer so perhaps it wouldn't have been such good timing!) - come in next time and i can finally see who i'm talking to here!! I don't think that breaks therules of FF does it?!

Mirra, sorry you lost your words. What a poo. It's bad enough losing posts on here!! Hope you've caught up and are flying again. One more request - can my cat be in it too? She's the real Roozie so i think deserves to make an appearance. 

Kirst - glad your DH isn't being a DH and is taking good care of ya! 

Off for penultimate set of jabs - might actually miss them in a perverse sort of way. Quite satisfying when they go well isn't it? Then got Babel on the agenda. 

Rooz xx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi Rooz, would have popped in but was rushing to get to appointment as usual!! Will do next time i go past! 
Miranda if Rooz cat is going in then my dog has to as he's the real Merse!! 
Laura DH was being a DH cause he would like us to move on with our lives (as if i don't!!) and he thinks after four and a half years of trying perhaps we should!! But we had a chat this afternoon and he says he understands i can't yet and he'll support me in whatever steps i want to take next. I think he was just having a bad day with it all and i tend to forget his feelings and think about me me me!!!! 
Nicks have finally done my hanging baskets and pots this pm, don't know whats in them but its always a nice surprise!!!  Thats about as green fingered as i get!!! But at least if you are revising it will take your mind slightly off the 2WW!!! 
Off for a glass of wine and a takeaway 
 to everyone else xxxxxxxxxxx


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2007)

Thanks for the welcome   and positive thoughts. 

Nicki - my AMH was 8.1.  I only seem to have one ovary that produces any eggs - they don't know whether the results reflect this and if I had both ovaries working then maybe am AMH would he higher/double.  As far as I'm aware it's early days with the AMH test and I've read somewhere that it's only 70% accurate.

Laura - my op was fine.  I was quite sore afterwards but all the drugs they gave me helped  .  The come down after I came off the drugs wasn't nice though.  I had to stay in overnight, which I think is the norm if you have something done to your bits whilst having a lap & dye.  I also had a drain put in to drain off excess fluid from the pelvic area. Whilst this wasn't in the least painful, I had to keep remembering to pick up the pot of fluid and carry it with me everytime I went to the loo.  They did take it out before I left the hospital though.  I've got three tiny scars from where they made the incisions which I'm actually quite proud of - they're my war wounds.  With regards taking time off work, I had the op on the Tuesday and was back at work the following Monday.  I do know people who took longer off work and I think any doctor would be happy to write a sick note.  My sister drove me home after the op.  I'm not sure if they advocate public transport, although if someone's with you I'm sure that would be fine.  I was walking like a 90 year old though for a couple of days as it hurt to stand up straight.  Oh yes, take some really baggy trousers with you as your stomach gets quite distended by all the gas they pump into you.  I forgot and had to walk out of the hospital with my trousers undone & slipping down!

Roozie - Dr Serhal is my consultant - What does he do to his hair?   When I first saw him I thought he must be having a bad hair day or he'd got caught in the rain but it would appear not, as that quiff at the back of his head it always there. Has nobody ever mentioned to him that it looks ridiculous?  That said, he is a very nice man and excellent at his job, so that more than makes up for his dodgy hair style.  He didn't mention GIFT during my tx but maybe that's because I've only got one tube - can you do GIFT with one tube?  Maybe he'll mention it on Monday.  I've found UCH really good and I'd definitely use them again if I wasn't going to HK.  

Well the up side of not being pregnant means that I'm back on the vino  .  I'm now trying to find some motivation from somewhere and get back to the gym    During stimming I didn't put any weight on at all, infact I think I lost weight due to the stress.  That all seemed to change in the 2ww when I just seemed to eat for three (I had 2 embies put back!).  Felling the pinch now, or should I say the tightness of my trousers  

Have good weekends everyone.

Emmax


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Aw bum - it's so confusing this AMH lark! The Lister use a totally different scale to measure the results - normal is 2.2-6.8. I want to be able to convert that to the scale you two are using, but have no idea how...
Mine was 0.69, but I don't know what that would be on the UCH scale.

It does make you wonder if it's really a different test altogether - I asked my consultant whether this test was reliable and she said 100 per cent yes, it was.

Gah - this cast is growing by the day! With animals as well, too - are they cutesy Hollywood-style animals? I'm making mine have plastic surgery so they can star in this movie.
xxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

We've got 3 cats Mirra - they will have to star too      
I woke up early this am (630am!)   and I must admit I just happened to be on ebay and have somehow succumbed to 10 pee sticks   I know I am naughty!  But if I test before going to clinic I will need one won't I?  And you always need to double check the result    (10 times!) Oh but the tempatation will be in the house when they arrive!    I won them for 1p and £2.85 postage so much better investment than last minute dash to chemist where they are £20 for 2  
DH is cooking sunday dinner.     Have just been to the garden and picked some fresh spinach and asparagus - wicked!! Revising compost today  
Hope you are all having pleasant Sundays  
NW


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I got three for 99p at the 99p shop! So I got six. Plus a Clearblue. You didn't get ten Clearblues for that money, did you? I'd be amazed!

To be fair, the 33p tests were just as accurate as the Clearblue for me - they all told me I wasn't fekking preggers, too!
www.peeonastick.com agrees - the dollar store ones can be just as good, if not better.

Have all our PUPO ladies got tickers, so we can count down the days to test day with you? Laura and I want to see them - NOW! Don't we dear?  

Do you know, I've got to 15,000 words on this book. It's just flooding out. Probably means it's a pile of poo, but I can always go back over it to make it less poo, I guess.

Does ANYONE know how to convert the AMH result from mcg/L to pmol/L? Pretty pelase? I'd love to have a reading over one, and that's the only way I'm goi ng to get it...
Maybe I'll email Jaya at the Lister to ask her, but she's so busy. if I could do it myself...

xxxx


/links


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oops! There yours is, Nicks! Am I blind


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hee! And when I was going back over the posts to see tickers, I saw your comment, Emma, that you'd be like a Bennetton ad with a Chinese egg!  
Can't imagine why I didn't see it before.
Bennetton ads are dead cute though, aren't they?


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Hello my lovlies,

Emma - Hmmm, I chose to have my op at barts rather than local and to be honest I'm worrying over getting home now, they said it was just a day surgery?? I guess I will ask them at my pre-op appointment about getting hme... its impossibe to park in Zone 1!

Mirra - Yes we need all test dates so we can start pestering people nice and early! Wow lots of words.. you can publish until you have a happy ending though.. we can't possibly let you go to print before a baby!!

Nicks - Ops, what a silly accident that was ordering all those pee sticks!!  

Merse - Its interesting I neer noticed DH can be dick head as well as darling hubby... what an interesting coincidence!! 

I've got 2 cats, 2 rabbits, 2 hamsters and 2 fish!  Its like Noahs Ark!!

Well I'm shattered, was up to 3am playing risk and drinking... I won.. Hoorah!


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2007)

Mirra - I'm afraid I can't help with the conversion, science was never my strong point! Have looked on t'internt and had no joy. See attached link where it says about fertility experts thinking the AMH test is only 70% accurate. My consultant did say the AMH test was the best indicator of ovarian reserve and my results all point to low reserve  http://www.sharedjourney.com/test/amh.html

Laura - Am sure you'll be fine after your op. I can be a bit of wimp. To be honest I would much rather have slept in my own bed rather than stay in hospital - they kept the lights on all night - it was like being a child again  The food wasn't great either! There's probably an NCP car park near your hospital - I know they're pricey but better than the tube. Congrats on your gambling gains 

Nicki - Can't say I blame you on the pee stick front - the more the merrier as far as I was concerned. I think I managed to stay away from them until 9 days post et then just caved in and did loads - lets hope your results are better than mine       

Good luck with scan tomorrow roozie, fingers x'd that they'll let you do ivf.   

Hi to everyone else.

Off now to finish reading the papers and stuff myself with chocolate. The gym can wait 

/links


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Laura when i used to lurk and read ff, i always thought DH was funny as D Head always came to mind and is so fitting a lot of the time!!! 
How many pets My dog is my surrogate baby i'd love to have more but its having time to look after them.
Miranda think we need to read book sounds very interesting!!  Have no idea about AMH!! 
Nicki shame about accidentally buying pee sticks, you'll have to try them and see if they work!! 
Kirsty and Nicki hope you  's are ok?   
Rooz good luck tom can't see why you can't do IVF?    
Emma hope enjoy papers and choc just off to do the same with yet another glass of wine  got to stop this!! Will do when  actually arrives!!!!
 to everyone else xxxxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Merse - I know I have far too many pets, especialy as ai live in a one bed flat! I know what you mean aboutt he wine, I'm going to cut down from next week... honest! 

Ok advice please ..... well since  my IVF I feel like I haven't ov'ed except this month and I've been getting really bad heads this cycle too which is unusal for me, not had them since I was on the pill.  I was due to have the witch today but no sign but I do have a terrible head.  I am meant to get bloods done on day 2, do you think i should wait til next month as my hormones seem to be all over the place at the moment?  Or just do it and face the consequences... won't make any difference to my treatment whatever my fsh is as I'll be on the highest dose?  What do you think?

Oh no the weekend is nearly over.  Oh and 28 days later is on at 10pm... fab film... I will be tucked up in bed with my coco watching it!


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

I'd get them done, is it FSH? If yes they don't just take one reading my cons said if it was on the high side they would take it over a few months!!  xxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

LB - I think headaches are more related to Prog and oestrogen so you should be OK   Yeah we watched 28 days/ weeks later recently.  Thought the new one was a bit ****e though wot with moving people back in to London when all the contaminated corpses were lying 5 minutes over the barrier!  
Kirst - any signs?  Are you mad yet?  
Merse - are you starting again with next AF?
Rooz - good luck to today hun!   Hope this is the last scan before trigger.  Be interesting to hear all about GIFT  
Emmachoc - hope you are OK and that your follow up today goes well.  Am sure they will find lots of positives from your last cycle  
Mirra, KJ, Pammie, Odette - hi girlies  
Well I'm off to docs at 4pm for sick note.  Hair cut at 2pm. Revision before and after.  Still   here.
Love ya
Nicks


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

I'm sooooooo    angry!!! I'm exercising and eating less and i'm not losing any weight nothing!!! argh!!! Do you think it could be cause i'm still waiting for the witch to arrive  ?? xxxxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

It must be pre-menstrual water retention then Merse!


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

do you think so? oh i do hope so its depressing enough at the mo without being over weight as well!!!


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

Hi girls
Spent yesterday booking a villa, flights and car for next week - pregnant or , not I need that holiday.  Car alarm going outside bedroom window from 2-5am so didn't go to work, any excuse didn't want to go anyway. Really wishing i'd booked the whole week off instead of just Friday, but at least i only have a 3 day week. 

I would put a ticker on but i have no idea how to do it, but anyway 8 days to go until the test.  You made me laugh with the pee sticks, at the clinic on Friday they gave me 1 stick and some instructions (like we need them) - little did they know i'd already bought 6 off the internet!

I've felt a few strange twinges last night and this morning but who knows whether i'm imagining it or not - what about you Nicki have you felt anything? My boobs are realy sore but have been since last week so it must be the progesterone - has anyone else had that? Feeling like i've missed out i've never had my AMH levels, perhaps he decided having a FSH of 14.5 was bad enough.

Rooz - good luck with the scan today.

Merse - sure its the PMT i can gain 4 or 5 lbs in the run up to my period. 

Emma - hope your consultation today went well, let us know how you got on.


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## kjones (Feb 7, 2007)

Oh my goodness I am soooooooooo hot.  Its 36 here today and I am soaking!!!

Got back home on Saturday morning.  I was so upset I really cried at the airport.  There we were surrounded by excited people going on holiday and there's me blubbering like a div!!!

I think its because I didnt think about ivf once whilst I was at home and over here its all i do!!

We really want to move back to the UK but have to stay here to get free ivf.  Its really depressing.

Anyway going to go and sit under my ceiling fan.

Speak soon
Kerry
xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Lucky thing! It's been pouring down here. Well, it _is _ the start of Wimbledon...

But poor you, too, going back to having to think about treatment.

Nice to hear you're having a holiday, Kirstie! I had a week off after my test, but just mooched.

Merse -I put on a stone, I swear, with water retention and PMT! I have fat clothes and thin clothes...

Rooz - how did the scan go?

Nicks, dear girl, are you roosting? How's the PUPO lady?

Laura, your flat sounds lovely with all your pets running round! A one-bed ark! I think I'd be tempted, if it didn't cost, to have the FSH done this month and next, to compare the two.

xx


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## skywalker (Aug 8, 2006)

hello,
  
can i join you?  i am having our first cycle of ivf and i had my pre egg collection scan today.  it was very poor.  one ovary has gone awol and not likely to have responded and the other has 2-3 follies in it.  the consultant did give us the choice to stop now or do oestradiol levels and then go for it.  my level came back at 1500 so she was happy enough to go ahead which is good as i couldn;'t have walked away.  do you have any advice?

thank you
skywalker


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

hi girls,

AARGH!!  I'm in a serious stress. 
Had the scan today - all looked OK, still 7 follies, 6 are good sizes, just below 17mm and the smaller one about 13mm. GIFT/IVF was booked in for early Wednesday am, and they would most likely decide whether to go ahead with GIFT still once they've seen the eggs/sperm. But just had a phone call from the nurse to tell me that my LH level has started to surge and that could mean i'm going to ovulate before they can do anything. I just can't believe this. i'm set for the trigger shot tonight at 9pm, which she said should help hold it back (tho' i thought its purpose was to trigger it?) but now have to go back in tomorrow for another scan and blood test to determine what's going on. My LH was 12.8 and should be about 2-3. Has this happened to any of you.... d'you reckon i'm panicking  unnecesssarily. I just can't bear the thought of getting to this point and losing everything.

Sorry for the "me" post all. 

Skywalker, i'm sorry your response hasn't been so good.  I'd definitely go for it if they think it's worthwhile. Anything you can salvage from the cycle has to be a bonus - you may get 2 or 3 great eggs and that could be enough for at least one embie. When would your EC be? 


PUPO's, hope you're still good. Kirstie - smart move. Boy do i need a hol after all this sh*te. 
Rooz xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh boy, Rooz - what a stress! Can't they have you in tomorrow and monitor your LH for warning signs?
Were you on Cetrotide or anything to hold it back?
I don't understand why they can't read your LH levels and change your egg collection time to suit, but I'm probably being a dunce.

Skywalker - hello!
You may well find there's more in there than it seems, so good luck for egg collection!
And people have got pregnant with fewer eggs than that, so think positive if you can. That hidden ovary's probably speckled with eggs, anyway.
If the worst comes to the worst there are different drug protocols out there, that will get you making more eggs. Downregging killed mine! The short protocol gave me much better results.
But for now, try not to think about it - it's perfectly possible there's more eggs there than it seems.

xxxx


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

hi Mirra - yeh, i'm back in tomorrow for an extra scan and bloods but it seems this will just tell me what's happened after the event so to speak. Once the surge has started they can't apparently stop it - i think it's just a question of time. If they do EC tomorrow instead they then risk being too early as the Pregnyl won't have fully acted, so also risk jeopardising it, if it turns out i haven't yet ovulated. It just seems ridiculous that all we can do is wait and hope i haven't - i s'pose this is the price you pay for doing SP?


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

Oh Rooz you poor thing what a pain.  I know i missed a lot at the beginning so sorry to be dozy but why are thinking GIFT instead of IVF given the number of follies you've got?  

I find it all very confusing this taking over your cycle vs our poor bodies trying to crack on as normal. 

Hi Skywalker welcome, it seems things can change very quickly from day to day so try not to worry until anything is confirmed.


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Rooz hun try not to worry I'm sure they will sort it.  Are you on antagonist Cetrotide?  I have heard of people having an extra dose of this. I seem to think you weren't on Suprecur?   You have lots good follies on the plus side! Are you having the trigger anyway? I'm sure they see this quite alot and they must have an action plan.  Keep calm  
 Skywalker - you may still get some good eggs and I expect you are not on too high a dose if this is your first cycle so try not to worry  
KJ - too hot!  Did it even stop raining when you were here?   We've got bad floods now!  
Better go and write the old diary.............  
 Nicki


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Rooz shouldn't they have been monitoring your LH before now? Try not to worry i know its easier said than done, but see what tom brings it may be betta than you think. 
Skywalker if they will go with 3 i would 3 is betta than nothing and as everyone says you only need one good one! 
Miranda still depressed about no weight loss but at least it seems the norm, so i'm not just a fat cow!!!  Am really hungry for crap today though so this could be a good sign for AF!!
Kerry sorry you had to go back and leave your family, its   here so totally depressing anyway, so try and enjoy the sunshine. 
Kirstie gr8 news about hols you def need it after IVF!! 
Hi nicks still being waited on by DH?
Laura hows Noah's ark 
Emma have you had your follow up?
Odette hows you? 
Babs are you keeping well? 
Think thats everyone lol xxxxxx


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2007)

Roozie -     My LH was 7.4 the night I took my trigger shot.  I was paranoid that I was going to ovulate as I had all the signs, i.e. ewcm.  I told the nurse I thought I was going to ovulate and she said that if my LH was at about 30 that would indicate I had ovulated/was about to ovulate.  She said that all the drugs I was taking were making my body produce the ewcm.  Obviously I'm not medically qualified but your LH is way off 30 so please try not to worry.  I was convinced that I had ovulated right up until I came round from EC.  They are keeping a close eye on you and if your scan/blood test indicate you are going to ovulate they will do something.  They wouldn't have told you to take the trigger if they didn't feel you were going to make it to EC.  Will pray that it's good news tomorrow      

Hi Skywalker - What day of stimming are you?  When is EC scheduled for?  I was a very slow responder and had the egg donor talk given to me on day 6 of stimming as I only had 5 follies in total.  My follies had a sudden late growth spurt and managed to get 6 eggs, all of which fertilised.  As they say..it only takes one.  It's definitely worth going for it.      

Hope all the   are keeping sane and keeping away from the pee sticks   .

Kirstie - I had sore boobs until about 10 days after my trigger shot, after which they went back to normal. 

Kerry    I know how you feel.  We're moving to HK in 3 weeks and everytime I think about leaving my family & friends my bottom lip starts to wobble.  If I have one dry day without tears at the moment, it's an achievement.  

Had my follow up consultation today.  Things weren't as bad as I thought they were going to be.  Doc said that I could definitely do ivf again.  When I asked how many goes I had left in me, he said 2 or 3, after which I may have to consider DE.  I had a list of questions, including what he thought of DHEA and whether it would help - he seemed very non committal about it and was more concerned where I managed to get it from as it wasn't licenced in the UK.  I also asked if he would do anything differently next time, i.e. different drugs, to which he said no.  He's advised us to wait at least 3 months before we try again.  Have asked for a copy of our notes so we can take it all to Hong Kong with us.  The doc also said that there were some good ivf centres in HK, which is positive news as I thought HK was way behind the UK in terms of ivf.

Hi to everyone else.

Off to bed now - got to be up at 3:00 for work.

emmax


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

That's good news then Ems   We told you so!  They will prob have different ways in HK anyway.  Doctors   don't they know about internet drug dealing!  
NW


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## roozie (Mar 25, 2007)

thanks all - i really need you lot to keep me sane. Poor DH is having a mare with me i think.

Emma, thanks, it's reassuring to hear your's worked out fine in that respect. i just feel that perhaps they took this risk unnecessarily by delaying things a day, just to avoid seeing me on a Sunday...? (perhaps that's a being too harsh on them, i just don't know)  S'pose now, i just have to get down on my kness & pray to the gods that those eggs do behave & stay put until Wednesday - it can't come quick enough for me. Just done my trigger shot so we'll see. Anyway, glad that you came away from your folllow up feeling +ve and determiend to have another few cracks at it. Encouraging on the HK clinic front too.

Nicks, what's antagonist Cetrotide?   You're right i haven't had any Suprecur but have been on Cetrotide for 7 days. They're going to give me an extra one tomorrow eve (if it's not already too late )

Better go and eat... gagging for a glass of wine - may have to succumb i'm afraid. (it can't trigger ovulation can it?!)


Rxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Rooz - A nice glass of wine sounds ike a plan.... I'm sure the ceritide stops you from oving?? PLease be calm... sounds like you have a good few eggs in there and even if one or 2 do slip out will them not get cught by the sperm if you are going GIFT anyway?  The embies get made in you not a dish with that so if a little one escapes it may be a bonus as you'll have extra illegal egg in your tubes!!!  Maybe go have a shag now just in case??!! 

Nicks - Bought any more pee sticks today?

Merse - Muslce weighs more than fat!!  Your prob all toned up!  
How are the clothes feeling?  Thats a  better indicator. 

Emma -Glad your follow up was positive.... when you off to HK - you moving there? my DP is off to HK next week to get a suit??!! (his friend is out there and getting married in a few weeks)

Sky - Your E2 is high which is great so just hang in there.  

XXXXXX


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Laura my clothes are feeling tight!!!!  But i'm putting it down to AF on its way!! Don't think i'm gonna  weigh myself anymore just keep up the  and healthy eating!! (today not good!!  but back to it tom!!)
Emma glad cons went well 
Rooz glad you are feeling betta lol 
xxxxxxxxxx


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## nic68 (Apr 13, 2007)

Hi been directed over to this thread. any advice would be appreciated.
This is my 2nd ivf cycle, down reg scan last week showed womb lining really thin. started stim inj menopur. had scan this morning and devastated nothing much happening. having re-scan again on friday to see if any improvement. im on max dose this time round as only had 3 follicles last time then got extra two after drugs were increased. so upset as we have to pay private for our treatment. can't understand why things are not working great this time when last time things were ok and i had two excellent quality eggs but unfortunately bfn.

Has anyone had the same experience, any info would help.

Nicola


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi Nic and welcome  How many days have you been stimming for? Did your scan show any follicles? You are obviously doing long protocol if you've been down regulated? Merse xxx


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## nic68 (Apr 13, 2007)

Hi Merse,
Ive had been stimming for 6 days when i had my scan yesterday. they never mentioned any follicles so i don't think there are any at the moment. they just said things weren't looking very good, my lining of womb isn't thickening as it should. im back for my next scan on friday to see if any change.

Nicola x


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## kjones (Feb 7, 2007)

Hello Ladies

Well its still really hot here, its getting on my nerves now!!

Something very strange has happened.  I have had the injection to stop my periods and last night my period came two weeks early!!  Tried phoning my Dr but cant get hold of him.  Does anyone know if this is normal?

Hi Nic and Skywalker, I can only reiterate what everyone else has said.  Keep your chins up and hope for the best.  There are different protocols you can try so dont give up.  Everyone on here has different stories.

I loved the rain in the UK thought it was fab.  Whilst over there my sisters dog bit me quite badly so have to go to doctors today for a tetanus (more bloody injections)!!

Anyway better go.

Take care
Kerry


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Kerry my friend is on those injections, i think it may take a while for them to get into your system!  Hope tetanus is ok!!
Nic i would wait till your next scan and see if anythings changed. But don't lose heart for the future you can change protocols and drugs you may well respond much betta to these! Good luck for scan  xxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi girls!
Rooz - hope you have had good news at the hospital today  Is there a limit to how many aggs they put back in GIFT - surely you could end up with sextuplets or more?        
KJ - not quite sure what your injection is but maybe if it shuts off all your hormones your lining will just break down and stay that way? Hope you get to come home to the UK soon with your 'free' babies in tow!  
Nic68 - Welcome! My last long proto i didn't get scanned til day 8 and not much was happening, lining thin (eventually it got going, 8 follies but all different sizes).  Don't know why they insist on LP for poor responders - its shuts everything down - my response was very slow compared to what I had this time.  You will probably see a difference though next scan.  Fingers crossed  
How you doing Kirst - up or down today??   Madness isn't it? 
LB -presume your op will be laparoscopic and you will be a day case?  Could you not go in on public transport and get a taxi home? Pain and nausea are the two main worries so least you could get a taxi driver to pull over if you need to barf!  
Merse - any sign of AF yet? Here is a dance       
Mirra, Odette, Babs, Pammie, Emmachoc-chic - how ya diddlin?
Been revising garden pests and disease - god its an immense topic and one of the last things we learnt so don't know it very well.  Trying to learn life cycle of an aphid. They can just give birth to nymphs without making eggs and without needing males - lucky girls   Actually I might have to get revenge and squash a few more of them in a fit of jealousy  
Feeling OK ish today, no good or bad symptoms to report  

NDubx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi Nicki, all that revision is making my head hurt!!! Are you giving up the gassing for gardening?? No bloody AF yet despite all the bloody symptoms! Heres my dance      xxxxxxxxxx


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2007)

Rooz - hope all went well today - have been praying that you have lots of lovely eggies.  I don't think you're being too harsh on UCH.  They don't tend to flower things up and give you false hope but at the same time I do think they could be more positive.  

Nic - hand on in there   you could be a late starter.  It seems strange that you're on the long protocol when you only appear to get 2 eggs last time. With poor responders they tend to put us on the short protocol.  Good luck for Friday.

Laura - we're moving out there in 3 weeks for 4 years due to dh's job.  Long way to go for a suit    The shopping's supposed to be really there.  We went out for a week in April, but I didn't really get a chance to hit the shops  

Merse - Hope   rears her ugly face soon, she can be a minx sometimes!

Kirstie & Nicki - Hope you're ok.   

Where has the summer gone  I hate all this rain


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Rooz, dearest! How did it go? Have you joined the 666 girlies?  

Wow, Emma - Hong Kong? Are you scared? I know I'd be scared! How long do you think you'll be out there for? Must be a great job.

Merse, have you tried vigorous rumpy pumpy?   Works for me...

hey, PUPO ladies! How's it hanging? Any symptoms? Are you doing 2WW diaries I can squint at?

Kerry, how come you've had an injection to stop your periods? What do they hope to do with that?

Nicks, can't you just answer every question with 'squirt them with washing up liquid'? That's all I do, anyway - you could spend a fotunae on pesticides and rot remedies!

Hello Nicola! I'd say downregging was the work of the devil, for me, do you know why they've downregged you, given that you responded badly last time? Which clinic are you at?

I'm having AF symptoms at the mo, and I don't know if it's the DHEA or what. I also have headaches and diahorrea. I just don't know if that's the DHEA or just a bug. Going to carry on anyway, till me antral follicle count, and see if it's done any good.

Laura, Sky, Pam, hello!

xxxxx


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## Kirstieb (May 31, 2007)

Hi girls 
Hope you're all Ok?  

Nicki - are you having any symptoms?  

Don't think i've entered proper dementia yet, but imaging all sorts of strange twinges!!  Back to work today, yesterday built it up into something so bad decided I was going to hand my notice in, don't think DH was too pleased at the thought of having an unemployed wife but said he would support me.  Perhaps it's the drugs or the process but when i got here it wasn't so bad.  Sitting at a desk all day has made my stomach blow up like a balloon - unfortunately I fear it's wind and not baby related!  DH away in Romania and then Tel Aviv for work so no cuddles for a few days - but luckily not feeling too needy (yet).  

Cancelled the gym tonight as convinced that if I haven't coughed or blown the embies out a session with my PT would finish them off.  

Sorry to bang on, hard not to be a bit self-obsessed when all you can think about is whether you're bloody pregnant or not. Haven't done 2WW diary didn't feel like I had enough to report i.e. nothing but a few twinges and sore tits, but maybe that would be the right place to be a bit more self indulgent, trouble is i only have a week left, testing next Tuesday!!!!!


take care
Kirstie


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

It's when you have a week left the madness starts to set in, Kirstie! I started my diary with a week to go, because I couldn't stand the tension any more! And by the last day before the test, at work i felt like I could EXPLODE...

It's the worst time, because the feeling of expectation grows and grows until it's an evil thing.

Good luck with staying sane!


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## kjones (Feb 7, 2007)

Hi Girls

They are stopping my periods to try and get rid of my endo before we try ivf again.

Went to gym today for the first time in ages.  It nearly killed me with this heat!  I have put on just over a stone since moving to Cyprus none of my clothes fit me any more!!

Speak soon
Kerry
xxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi all, i'm still fat and no AF and all symptoms gone? 
Kerry i went to aerobics yesterday and now can't walk or sit down properly!!! 
Do you know what stage your endo is?
Kirstie think i would give the gym a miss far to energetic!!! 
Rooz any news hon been thinking of you all day! 
Miranda are you finished yet An i'm off  due to being to fat!!!!
Hi Nicki are you still revising those weeds
 to everyone else xxxxxxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Thoroughly p*ssed off now with gardening revision! Gonna do some retail therapy tomorrow instead   
Merse - you're not preggers are you?  
Mirra - I am getting the second week evilness now I think  
Rooz hun any news?  Hoping you might have gone ahead with EC maybe or are having so much    you can't get to the computer  
KJ - gyms in those temps don't sound good.   Are you making use of that pool?  
Off to do diary now..........this one's on here Mirra for everyone to read! No extracts for your book though without copywright  
NW


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Hi Girls,

I've got a migraine, had it since last night and AF has not made an appearence, 2 days late.  I've put 2 +2 together and got 52, thinking maybe this is a pregnancy head. Daft, I have no tubes so impossible but me being mad still considers it an option.

Rooz - Any news?  

I've do personals when me head not as  

XXX


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## nic68 (Apr 13, 2007)

Thanks all for your advice. will see what happens on scan friday.

Miranda im at Queen Elizabeth Hospital, Gateshead.

Think i will mention about short protocol if not good news friday and also ask why i had to down reg.

Nicola x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hi Nic
Well there are a few clinics I've heard of that seem to tailor your treatment to your response - one's the Lister, I know because I'm a patient there. I think ARGC sounds good. But there are a few, as I say. There are also lots and lots of clinics that seem to stick to the same protocols for everyone.
Anyone else on here been downregged and produced a good number of eggs? I may be wrong, but it was the kiss of death to me, anyway.
Yes, do mention the short protocol - it's called a Clomid flare - and if they don't know what it even is, run away!
Hopefully on Friday you'll have BILLIONS of follicles, anyway!
Here's a follie-creating dance for you...
                   

Laura, I go through that insane could-I-be-pregnant thing too! Poor old head - almost nothing helps a migraine.

Merse - could you be? Swimming, I tell you, swimming. It's good for everything, and your body is under the water so you don't feel fat.

Nicks - here -  
Don't you worry about the madness - we'll all be here to absorb your insanity. Hideous week coming up, bird, but it'll all be worth it for that  
Ok? OK.

xxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Look if i could get pregnant without IVF don't you think i would have done it and not bothered with the drugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Ok maybe i did once but a long time ago when my body was playing ball a bit! It def isn't now!!!   xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## skywalker (Aug 8, 2006)

hello,

thank you for all the kind words of support.  it does come as a shock when you expect things to be nice and full and the wee follies are lonely in there.  we have ec tomorrow at 11.30 so i hope to be as high as a kite tomorrow - the scan was very painful when the doc went exploring for my ovary!  #

anyway good luck to everyone on their various stages.  

this is such a [email protected]@ process - i thought at the start it would be wee buns  .

thanks again 
skywalker


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Good Luck Sky and Rooz for EC tomorrow        
Nicks


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Good luck you two!

Lots and lots of       

xxxx


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## Rachel (Mar 10, 2004)

This way to a new home 

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=100154.new#new


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