# New girl!



## HannahK (Jul 7, 2014)

Hi,
I've just joined up to this site and have never before been a member of any forum or chat room, so it feels a bit weird but I felt like I needed to talk about this as I've suddenly found myself in unexpected territory and to be honest I feel a bit scared.
I'm 36, have mild endometriosis & polycystic ovaries (not syndrome) my partner who is 47 had testicular cancer 12yrs ago & froze some sperm before his orchidectomy. We've been trying for baby properly for a year (but haven't been particularly careful for about 3 years) and had no luck - I've never fallen pregnant, not even miscarriage. 
Last month I went for endo check up and asked about our fertility issues and the dr explained that there is no way we could conceive naturally as my partners recent sperm count is now at 0 (with poor motility and morphology) he suggested we would need ICSI rather than IVF and I have just got a referral to Homerton Hospital for september (are they any good there?)
One of the things I'm not sure about is why we couldn't use the frozen sperm and go the IVF route?
And another confusing thing is that my partner has a 9yr old boy who was conceived naturally with his previous partner (after his surgery with no issues, so why have things suddenly got so bad?)
The things that are worrying me at the moment are;
1. it not working (obviously terrified I will never be a mum)
2. it taking too long between cycles and my age becoming a big issue (should I save up and pay to speed up process?)
3. risks (i've read an article about IVF/ICSI babies having increased risk of health issues/birth defects) is this true?
4.my partner cycles a lot and i've heard this can effect sperm count, any info on this or how true it is

Any advice would be extremely welcome, I feel like I've just been told such earth shattering news and currently feel like I'm grieving the loss of a baby I've never had. The fact that I have a step son seems to be making things feel even more complicated and painful, as I seem to have a constant reminder that I'm not a 'real' mother.
Don't really have any pals in similar situation and all my close mates are either new mums or onto baby number 2, so I'm really hoping this site will help me feel less isolated.
Thanks in advance!
Hannah x


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## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

welcome, pull up a chair and make yourself at home. 
it's always a bit weird seeing your own thoughts out in public. but most people here understand where you're at.  
1) it's always terrifying that it might never work.. it's tempting to think in absolutes when faced with scary stuff... 'what if...never...'... but there are many ways to get to where life intends you to be... 
2) it does take time, which is terrifying. I only started treatment at 41... delays between cycles were horrific... you have time though.. age doesn't have to be a panic situation... it's harder, but not impossible.
3) yes there are increased risks some of which come about because of the fact that people with problems are more likely to need IVF/ICSI therefore babies conceived these ways are more likely to inherit problems... also, in a natural pregnancy, many babies with problems would be miscarried which in a medicated/monitored/IVF type situation might survive because they get extra support or drugs or vitamins etc... BUT ! the overall risks are still small. don't get stressed about statistics. if there's a 1 in 100000 risk of X happening, and then someone says there's a 100% increase in X happening it's still only 2... 
2+3) I had my ICSI baby at 43, he's cute. No obvious health problems apart from that he had tongue tie.. just a couple of small birth marks but he's a happy smiley 3 month old baby... 
4) lots of things can affect sperm count... I made my DH stop having hot baths and alcohol... I think it made a difference but we didn't have the issues your DH has so it's not really a fair comparison. anything that causes their bits to heat up is generally bad, but if there's none there to start with heat won't make it worse... I'm baffled as to why they don't suggest using the frozen sperm..

good luck x


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## karenanna (Dec 27, 2008)

Hi HannahK

First of all   - infertility is a tough thing to go through and it can be a lonely place. I joined this forum in 2008 and have found it such a great place for support, advice and inspiration to get me through. So much so, I'm still here helping out where I can.

Firstly - I would find out if you are eligible for NHS treatment - as your partner already has a child you may not be and may need to go private anyway (my DH had children already so we were ineligible for IVF).

In terms of the Frozen sperm - ICSI is a type of IVF procedure which is used when sperm is frozen - this is because the sperm needs help to penetrate the egg, so it is injected - here is a link with more info - http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=43205.0

In terms of health defects - like any medical procedure there are risks and as far as I am aware the jury is inconclusive of whether or not infertility treatment causes birth defects. If you search hard enough on the net you can find evidence both ways.

In terms of male infertility, we have a board here with more support and advice http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=35.0 - it is possible for male fertility to deteriorate with diet, overheating, alcohol, smoking etc... but I think it is unusual for just those things to bring it to zero - post on the Male factors thread for more advice.

For the Homerton check out the London board http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=35.0

Hope this helps and    

KA xxx


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## Lilly83 (Jan 19, 2012)

Hi Hannah

Welcome to FF 

Goldbunny has given some great advice there, I have added a few links you may find useful too

I have endo too and I'm an infertile stepmum, its so so hard I know exactly how you feel, we did get funded for icsi as I didn't have a child only my DP

My DP had a bad SA and a much improved one 6 months later, we were recommended 'Menevit' by our clinic

*What Every New Member Needs To Know (includes a list of common abbreviations) ~ *   CLICK HERE

*FERTILITY INFO GUIDES ~ *CLICK HERE

*Starting out & Diagnosis ~ *CLICK HERE

*What can improve egg quality and quantity ~ * CLICK HERE[/ur]

*Male factors ~ *[url=http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=35.0]CLICK HERE

*Fertility through Cancer ~ *CLICK HERE

*Endo ~ *CLICK HERE

*PCOS ~ *CLICK HERE

*Questions for your first cycle consultation ~ (use the ones that apply) *CLICK HERE

*A Rough Guide To IVF ~*   CLICK HERE

*IVF General ~ *CLICK HERE

*ICSI ~ *CLICK HERE

*Clinic Reviews ~ * CLICK HERE

Let me know if you need anything else

L x


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## HannahK (Jul 7, 2014)

Thanks so much everyone, already feels better to have somewhere to be able to talk these things through. Great comfort x


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## LisaL29 (Apr 5, 2012)

Hi hannahk

Welcome to FF, I hope you find it as helpful and encouraging as I have over the years.

Briefly, I understand how you feel in regards to your partner already having a child. My relationship was similar in that my (now ex) partner had a son and also a terminal illness which affected fertility (we were very lucky to conceive). His son is a lovely lad, real mannerly and I think, and thght the world if him, but no matter what I always felt "left out". I can't really describe how I felt exactly but it made the infertility harder for me.

As for risks tbh I knew they existed but there's risks in natural conceptions too. My work colleague and I both have our babies through ivf and icsi and they are both well.

There's a link on here and it's a list of supplements for male & female infertility. A mans sperm count can differ from one day to the next and many a mans sperm has been helped along with diet and lifestyle change. I'm one for supplementing. My work colleague I mentioned above, her DH had anti sperm antibodies and my DP had low count low morphology low motility and both males probks improved to what we can only believe was supplication and a change in lifestyle. My DPs count went from being low to needing icsi to improving vastly to being able to use ivf (can't rembrr figures) and the morphology improved also

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=294994.0

In N.I we were still accepted for nhs treatment despite my partner having a child

I treated the journey as a challenge! Googled everything. Gathered we bits if info here and started out, learning that things for example Brazil nuts increasing lining for implantation etc can make the journey interesting or at least distract you a little while from the worry, being proactive. It can't hurt it kept me focused I felt I was doing something despite just being treated, and that kept me positive, maybe it contributed to my BFP maybe not.

I hope you get your BFP 

Lisa x


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## SWGirl (Aug 19, 2004)

Hi HannahK,  

Welcome to the forum.  From what I remember reading once,  the studies regarding whether there are more disabilities with IVF or ICSI babies has been checked on such a small group that it is not a good guide.  Also other factors can effect such results (i.e.  People that have struggled for a long time to get pregnant may be more likely to continue with a pregnancy following a diagnosis etc).  I spot all kinds of articles claiming things such as IVF babies are taller and slimmer,  IVF babies are smarter (possibly relates to economics due to the cost of treatment).  All I do know is that IVF can't guarantee a healthy baby but most people on this forum seem to have healthy babies.  Was the Doctor that you spoke with a fertility Doctor?  At your next appointment you are likely to have a more detailed discussion about whether you have ICSI or IVF based on the sperm analysis.  You could ask whether you could have the ICSI procedure for half the collected eggs and IVF for the other half.  With regards to cycling,  my parter is a keen cyclist (downhill,  cross country,  Road cycling,  currently cycles 15 miles a day for work).  It didn't seem to be a problem.  Nurses at the clinics have suggested no hot baths and loose fitting boxers generally but have not commented on cycling gear,  I suppose it's because it's not for a great amount of time and the outdoor breeze is usually chilly.  That said I don't think I would have been keen on the idea of him cycling 15 miles a day just prior to treatment.


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## HannahK (Jul 7, 2014)

Hi, 
great links thank you all!
I've got lots of reading to do now! 
SWGirl it wasn't a fertility Dr who saw me, it was a gynaecology Dr, so I can't wait to see the specialists as I feel like I've only been given half the info and I'm not sure what to believe or worry about.
The vitamin link is good and it's definitely something I'd try. I'm not sure I will be able to get my DP to try it though, it's been quite a stressful time since finding all this out and it feels like it's put quite a lot of pressure on our relationship.
I spoke to my DP about us both trying vitamins and also acupuncture and I mentioned things the gp had said about cycling for long lengths of time possibly being a problem with sperm count and I think it all pushed my DP over the edge.
We had a massive row and he said that he won't take vitamins and he won't try acupuncture as once we've tried that I would find more and more things for him to do and there would be no end to it. He said he's happy to go along with the hospital treatments but won't do anything else.
I completely broke down as I felt like he wasn't on board (I feel like I'd try anything if there was even a vague chance it would help) with him saying no, I felt completely out of control and like all my chances of having a baby rest on him and whether or not he feels like going along with attempting to try to improve sperm count (which I now realise is obviously loads of pressure to put on him, however if nothing worked I would at least feel that we had tried)
Through my rage and tears I said that he didn't seem on board and I asked if he wanted me to find someone else to have a baby with. I meant this as a question (as I couldn't understand why, if he really wanted a baby with me, he wouldn't try anything he could, unless of course he didn't actually want a baby with me) but this has now become a recurring statement that my DP keeps bringing up and I think it has really hurt him. I can't take back what I said and I certainly didn't mean it to hurt him so much but I've also realised that I'm suddenly aware of this pressure or dark cloud now hanging over the relationship and I really don't want this resentment to grow. I am with my DP because I love him and want a baby with Him, however if I'm really honest this horrible thought has crept in which is that I have also suddenly become aware that if I left I would possibly widen my chance of having a baby. This thought combined with his refusal to try these alternative therapy routes (for me, even if he doesn't believe in them) is completely doing my head in. I can't work out how to keep calm and not put too much pressure on him.
I think essentially he wants to maintain the control over his own body and seems to be trying to keep a lid on this not taking over our lives.
I think I feel more desperate about the whole situation and although I do think he wants to have a baby I don't feel that he has the same urgency as he already has his 9yr old. This is making me feel resentful as I almost feel like he's not trying hard enough (wrong use of words but can' think how else to describe it) because it doesn't matter so much to him. He said he feels that I'm blaming him, which of course I'm not meaning to (it's obviously not his fault that he had cancer and of course I don't blame him in any way and nor would he blame me for having endo) but I think it's his lack of willingness to look into things that "may" help that I'm struggling with.
He is also a cycling fanatic and cycles for an hour and a half a day and up to 4 hours at weekends. At the last visit with the dr, she advised my DP to avoid cycling as anything that heats up the testicles is best to try to alleviate and since getting this news my DP has almost started cycling more, as he can't bare to be told what to do and doesn't believe it will effect the count (I'm trying really hard to accept his decisions and not obsess but it's all so difficult as it feels like there is a huge pressure on it all now and his actions feel so counterproductive to our chances of success)
If we can't improve his count from zero, I'm not sure if that means that there will be no healthy sperm to use for ICSI?
Then it feels like it's game over as I just don't think the donor route is an option, as it would then feel like "my" baby rather than "ours" and I had hoped this baby would help us all become more of a united family, giving a half sibling to my stepson and a baby that we would have shared responsibility for, rather than just one of us. 
Oh sorry for massive rant   I didn't expect to write so much, I guess there's a fair bit I need to get off my chest!
Hope things are going well for all of you and thank you for your advice so far xx


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## HannahK (Jul 7, 2014)

Gosh sorry,
that previous message was quite an overload for a second ever post   I had to go back and edit it as I realised that I hadn't written what I meant to say at all. There's such an overload of emotions going through my head that it's quite hard to pinpoint and verbalise things without spewing it all out at once! 

On top of just finding out our infertility news I've just been made redundant, so now instead of applying for jobs I've become far too focused on this, which I know isn't healthy.
How do you possibly keep a balance with all this and keep things in perspective?
Feeling overwhelmed x


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## LisaL29 (Apr 5, 2012)

You just have to keep a balance and you can't let it completely take over your life.....it is good to do some research on ways to improve your fertility situation to both help it along and to feel you are actively doing something, but equally being chilled and stress free is as good as any treatment.  I'm sure you've heard or read of someone somewhere who had endless ivfs fail only to go on to achieve natural BFP simply by giving up.

Your DP and situation is not unsimilar to mine.  Because my DP (ex now) had a son I always felt he was not as focused or desperate as I was.  At my 2nd BFP which resulted in mmc I even accused him as not being as devastated as I was because he had a son.  But none of that is true and I think we get so caught up in it all we imagine they don't care....men really do deal with things different.

My DP was the same regarding the vitamins and as he had CF and was already on 40+tablets a day for his illness adding the vitamins certainly had him rattling.!!  He objected at first, strongly.  I threw a tantrum, kind of swayed him then I showed him online what different benefits each of the vitamins had ie vitamin e & omega 3 for skin etc etc and when he saw various sites showing health benefits and how these are in foods we just don't eat enough of etc he was more than happy......actually being a vain fricker I convinced him it'd knock yrs of him and he was actually scolding me on days I forgot to leave his tablets out!!!!  If your partner is a fitness freak surely you can convince him the benefit to health of vitamins not just in sperm count.  I was brought up with alternative remedies, my dad is holland & barretts best customer, he even controls his own BP!!!  But I feel your frustration I was up against the same awkwardness with my DP.....perhaps if he feels it's his "fault" and vitamins don't help then he fears he could lose you, he's bound to be feeling terrible too

Cycling I think is a problem.  I remember a male mate who cycled and entered in the iron man comps that before him & his wife split they too had fertility issues he said she's blaming me because I cycle and take the odd beer and cigarette. I think their GP had warned about the cycling too

Maybe don't ask your partner to give up cycling just ask him if he could give it a temporary go of not cycling and trying Vits to see if it makes a small difference....he obviously considered more children when he had sperm froze?  I would say he's scared that if certain lifestyle changes don't improve things then he could lose you.

Either way yous need to talk calmly and sensibly he has to be sensible and honest about how he's feeling 

Lisa x


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## karenanna (Dec 27, 2008)

Hi Hannah

I went through similar things with my DH who wouldn't do the vitamin thing etc... and also had other children. People have different ways of coping and I think it is important that you and your DP find a way together to compromise.

Some practical things that may ease things

1. I would find out where the frozen sperm are stored - as I can't see why these aren't an option for you if you are going to try ICSI.

2. If the frozen sperm are not an option then your DP will need to have TESA or PESA - give him this information leaflet to read - http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=323719.0 (sometimes the thought of a large needle in the testicles sparks some action)

3. If you go down the TESA/PESA route it is still possible to get motile sperm that can be used in the treatment.

If you have to pay, you can choose any clinic you want to go to - don't just take a referral a GP gives you because that is where they refer their NHS patients. I had 4 failed attempts without really realising that because I was paying I could have gone anywhere.

In terms of PCO - I have the same - I was prescribed metformin to help improve egg quality. If you have endo, they should also organise some sort of hysteroscopy to check for scarring.

Hope this helps

KA xxx


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