# FET July/August 2019



## Jupiter 96 (Aug 12, 2016)

Hello Everyone

I thought that I would start this thread for anyone gearing up for a FET in July/August.

I am 41 and have frosties which have been waiting three years to return home.

I have appointments lined up later this month to get the ball rolling. I have no idea what to expect but I am really looking forward to taking the next steps. My aim is to be measured but I can't help but feel happy and excited to even be in a position to at least "try" for our rainbow baby!

Annnnnywho....enough about me...

Baby dust to you all!

Jx


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi Jupiter I’m doing a fet in July.iv got a beautiful 3 year old son also from a fet.so trying again as we have 2 frozen embies and would love a sibling for him.iv already had my scan and consultation and everything was fine so ready to start with my July period. We are away right now so June wasn’t the right time xx


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## Jupiter 96 (Aug 12, 2016)

Hi Sarah

Yay! Glad to know you.. hehe

What a lovely way to build up to your FET cycle.  Where did you decide to escape on holiday to?

What exactly happens in the nurse planning appointment? I am not sure how this will all play out for me because I have been on meds which effectively put me into a menopause. I have only had two periods access three months so not sure how and when they will want me to get the cycle started, with or without medication....

What was your previous FET cycle and 2WW like if you don't mind me asking?


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

hi, we are in Newquay.to be honest I can’t remember my nurse planning appointment.this time round I just had to have an internal scan to make sure everything was good.my first fet cycle was really simple. I was on a short protocol so it was much more relaxed, with no injections.the 2ww is hard it seems to drag as your looking at every symptom you have x


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## Jupiter 96 (Aug 12, 2016)

Cornwall is a lovely part of the world Sarah. Are you having a nice time?

We are hoping to get away for a mini break in between or after the last cycle. As it won't be possible to have a fresh cycle we'd ideally like to see if it's going to happen sooner rather than later.  I can't imagine what it will be like to actually have an embryo put back!

Are you doing anything special to prepare yourself for transfer?


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

We are home now. Loved it but the weather wasn’t so great😔.its really amazing to see your embryo on the screen before being transferred.not really doing anything special,obviously no alcohol and eating healthy.taking pregnacare conception as it contains the vitamin d and folic acid that your body needs it also has lots of other vitamins in too . How are you? You doing anything special to prepare? X


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## CurlyGirl1225 (Jun 26, 2013)

Hi all

I’m waiting for my D1 and will be doing a natural cycle this month which is new and seems to be lots of drugs and monitoring. 

Not going to be easy with my overseas clinic.


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## Jupiter 96 (Aug 12, 2016)

Hi CurlyGirl!

How exciting that you will be starting soon.  When are roughly expecting D1?

How does a natural.cycle work exactly?  In my mind I imagine natural meant that you didn't need any drugs which does sound nice....

Hi Sarah
I am taking folic acid and vitamin D also. Generic advice from Dr Google, the obvious re alcohol and caffeine but I did panic a bit in terms of how long before all this stuff needs to be in place....
It must be amazing to see the embryo going in and knowing that it's still there as you leave the clinic...

AFM We are soon to have the planning appointment which should be four/five days before my period arrives if auntie flow behaves herself or it may be two weeks before if the AF becomes a total rebel!  I am not sure how much it actually matters if you have irregular cycles and require a medicated cycle. I am hoping I can simply get started but I guess we'll soon find out  at the appointment.


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## Jojonz (Jun 10, 2014)

Hi everyone

Keen to join as I"m planning on a July transfer. 

jupiter hope you can get underway soon. ARe you still unsure if you're having natural or medicated cycle? I've always done medicated FET as I live 5 hours drive from the clinic and on the medicated one you can be more planned out which makes things easier. I think on a natural cycle it's a bit more last minute but don't know for sure. 

Hey Sarah - so nice to have had a successful FET already right? Fingers crossed for you this time too

Hi CurlyGirl - which clinic are you going to? Will you be over there for a while?

Like you all I'm waiting for D1 - should be in the first few days of July so expecting transfer late July... hoping it's our year


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## Jupiter 96 (Aug 12, 2016)

Hi Jojonz

How's it going?

We are getting quite excited, wanting the get started but also trying to manage our own expectations...

Can't wait for the scan and nurse planning to actually find out how we will approach this first FET cycle...

Work is really crazy at the moment, I can't imagine fitting in lots of appointments for the impending cycle but I guess we'll just have to make it happen when the time comes.

Whereabouts in the world are you?

@ Sarah & CurlyGirl
Hope that you are both doing well.... it's officially July next week! Woo-hoo!

Jx


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi jojonz welcome. Wow 5 hours away is hard work for you. Whoop woop Jupiter, July just around the corner. It’s my birthday Friday, it’s just going to be a quiet one with me not drinking🙄,but definatley going to enjoy some bbq food😜👌.anyone up to much this weekend it’s going to be a scorcher☀☀X


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## Jojonz (Jun 10, 2014)

Woo Happy Birthday Sarah! Good t hear you have plans. 

Jupiter - yeah sometimes it would be nice to have more time to plan everything in right? But I guess we just have to roll with it. Do you know when your scan and appt will be?

curlygirl hope all is well. 

Sarah I live in New Zealand and rurally which is awesome but just logistically tricky for this!  But I did 2 FETs with that clinic last year (didn't work) so have a nice place to stay adn just take my time on the drive. It's a kinda relaxing night away by myself to be honest!!

I"m getting all my pre-period signs now, so hopefully day 1 isn't too far away now. 

It's nice to have some buddies in this isn't it! Nice to hear from you all x


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## CurlyGirl1225 (Jun 26, 2013)

Hi all

Im on D6 of my natural cycle first scan is on Friday. Is it normal to have a second scan and bloods?


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## Jingles1985 (Jun 1, 2016)

Hi All I'll join in- I'm having my 5th FET in later july...


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi everyone.curlygirl how did your scan go?
Welcome jingles. Only another week and af will be here can’t wait to get started now x


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## Jupiter 96 (Aug 12, 2016)

Welcome Jungles! Sending good energy for lucky 5 FET!

@Sarah
Happy Belated Birthday! What did you get up to? I feel your pain, it all feels so close yet still far away..

@Curlygirl
I have limited experience re the scans and blood but maybe it’s to make sure your lining is growing and you have the necessary hormone levels? I haven’t started yet so not sure. Let’s us know how you go?

@Jojonz
It finally happened! We had the nurse planning appointment and scan so at last we have more information.
It’s definely lovely to have kindred spirits on this journey. How many embryos will you be putting back?

AFM... Two excited souls bounced to the clinic. There was good news and bad news.

I was particularly nervous because after my CT they happened to notice fibroids and cysts on my ovaries. The fibroids at that time were confirmed as not being in cavity so will not impact implantation. However, the cysts were a worry but the doctor said that once I flush out my Meds they should go. If they did not go the FET would be put on hold for gynae investigations.
Anyway, at the nurse planning I had a scan and the cysts were gone! Thank goodness. We were so excited and thinking “Yay! We can get started”...... 

The bad news is that because my lining was so thick at 15.2  they were not happy to simply get started on my next bleed as I had hoped. Basically, the doctor wants to scan me completely empty to make sure there isn’t anything lurking in there and then wait for another bleed to get started. I am not sure how I feel about that.

If my period doesn’t start by the end of July they will give me something to induce a period.

Hmmmm..... definitely a case of one step forward, two steps back. Trying to stay positive and focus on the fact the cysts are gone.

Jx


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## CurlyGirl1225 (Jun 26, 2013)

Hi all

Scan was ok apart from the fluid. Bloods were ok too. Next scan they said Monday morning but I can’t get one until Tuesday so I hope the clinic are ok about that. They’ve asked me to do ovulation sticks these next two days so I may get the surge before Tuesday. I usually surge on D12 and it’s d9 today.


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## Jojonz (Jun 10, 2014)

HI everyone!

CurlyGirl - great your scan and bloods look OK. What is the purpose of the ovulation sticks? ARe you doing a natural (non medicated) cycle?

Jupiter - GREAT news about the cysts but how frustrating about your lining. I didn't know lining too thick was even a thing? What a pain to have to wait. Long term of course its for the best but it's so frustrating isn't it? So you will be August transfer then?

Sarah - any signs of AF yet?

Jingles - welcome! This is my 6th FET too!

AFM - Day 1 arrived on Thursday last week so I"ve started taking progynova and am now waiting on the clinic to give me a transfer date. I'm kind of annoyed it's taking them so long to get back to me - feels like an unnecessarily long time they are taking but oh well no point stressing about it! It's more cos i need to make plans, book accommodation and sort out being away for 2 days but hopefully I'll hear in the next day or two - and then will sort blood test and scan dates too which is all a llittle tricky as I"m so remote from the clinic but I've done it before so hopefully it's all smooth!

hope everyone is well


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi everyone
Jojonz, no sign yet of af  yet I’m guessing it will come at the weekend.just a question if I started my period in the evening would I take a progynova tablet or would I wait till the morning to start them? I can’t even remember from my last fet x hope they contact you soon about transfer, it would drive me mad waiting around x


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## Jojonz (Jun 10, 2014)

Sarah I"m pretty sure Day 1 is the first day you wake up with your full period - so if you get it in the evening day 1 is the next morning. However I have NO idea if thats general, or specific to my clinic! Isn't the waiting awful?


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Thanks jojonz that’s what I was thinking. Yes the waiting is awful, I never want my af to come haha but wishing this one to come quick. How you doing on your progynova? I can’t remember any side affect last time, think I breezed through x


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## Jojonz (Jun 10, 2014)

Hey sarah...doing ok on the progy...slight headache but thats it! I always gain a little weight but not too stressed about that. 

Finally heard from the clinic and my transfer is 19 July so 2 weeks away. Now I can start making all my plans which is nice! 

Fingers crossed you get underway soon
Jo


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## Jupiter 96 (Aug 12, 2016)

@Jojonz
How exciting that you have a transfer date. What's your plan?

@Sarah
AF really is the star of the show, always in our thoughts be it wishing she would come or wishing that she doesn't arrive
Which clinic are you cycling with?

AFM
Waiting as well for AF#1. I may argue the case that if all the other bits and pieces are in place that they squeeze me in for scan so I can start on this cycle instead of next. Not holding out much hope but hey ho.

I am currently waiting for  the results of a Rubella test to confirm that I have been vaccinated. I am pretty sure that I had it many moons ago but the clinic need evidence. Blood tests at the GP always take ages.  I also had to be retested for Chlamydia as the last one was more than two years ago. I fully expect the results to be fine but understand that clinic have to operate cautiously. Chlamydia of the womb sounds horrendous!  If I get my results back before AF I am definitely going to ask to get started this bleed.  July and August are lighter months for me work wise, less travel to have to manage the cycle around and most importantly I am on the clock in terms of taking a break from my meds.

Annnnnhow.....off to work I go

Hope everyone is well!

Jx


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## soitis1 (Feb 23, 2017)

Hi There

I thought I'd jump on this thread as I'm starting FET in August!! - We had a successful FET in Feb 17 so hope hope hoping we can be lucky again this time.

Excited to join you lovely ladies for the coming weeks!!

Much love to you all and hope for lots of wee BFPs!!!

L


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi all
Jupiter I’m cycling at care Sheffield.oh I hope they can squeeze you in for July, waiting around is hard when you just want to get started.
Welcome soitis1, I also have a little boy , he’s the cutest x


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## Jojonz (Jun 10, 2014)

Hi everyone

Welcome Soiltis1 - great to have another friend here. So good to have had a successful FET already isn't it?

Jupiter- I"m on progynova 3 x daily since day 2, will have a scan next week, blood test the following week and then start the progesterone pessaries - and then all going well will have transfer. It's all OK so far but I am noticing more side effects from the meds this time round -but also have a lot of family stuff going on ... so trying to look after myself!

Sarah - how old is your little one? My kids are 4 and 2 and full on!!!


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi all
Jojonz my son is 3 going on 15 😂. Wow 2 and 4, you have your hands full. Their little personalities are amazing though aren’t they, my son cracks me up x


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## CurlyGirl1225 (Jun 26, 2013)

Hi all

So finally I have my transfer tomorrow. Very excited and nervous. This will be treatment number 10

Sad weekend. A year ago we had to terminate our sons life due to problems. I’m hoping for a huge rainbow as I’m sure many of you are too


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi everyone
Curleygirl thats exciting news.so sorry to hear about your loss. Hopefully this is your time. And I started af this afternoon so I start progynova tablets tomorrow, eek x


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

Please could I join your thread?  I'm doing FET this time and thought this board is probably more suited for me.  I think I recognise one or two of your names from cycling together in the past.

I'm transferring my remaining two frozen embryos on this cycle.  They are both day 5 embryos (3BC and 4BC).  These will be my 9th and 10th embryos transferred since having DS in 2015, and most have been chemical pregnancies with one MMC.  This time I will be having hormone tests to make sure I have ovulated and that progesterone levels are where they should be.

Looking forward to chatting and being able to support each other through this cycle.  Sending positive wishes to all xx


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## Sirialexa (Jun 2, 2019)

Hi Everyone!

First of all best of luck to all of you going through FET this or next month. I’m sure you are all going through mixed emotions of excitement and anxiousness. I definitely am! 

Need a bit of advice and hoping at least one of you lovelies can shed some light. I’m 39 and having my first embryo transfer. Decided to go against fresh personally as 1) I wanted my body to heal after egg collection and 2) wanted to perform NGS testing.

So how did you decide whether to put in one or two on your first attempt? Pros and cons?

xx


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi Sirialexa,

Excitement and anxiety is this process completely!  Wishing you the best of luck for your FET and welcome to the board.  I'll tell you what I have been thinking through when coming to my decision to put two back this time.  I have had two put back before but it wasn't a decision I had made beforehand (it was a quick decision following a fresh cycle, where it looked unlikely there would be any embryos to freeze).  My age is one of the main factors (I'm 41) and the chances of two embryos being successful are quite slim.  I have not had genetic testing done on mine.  They are both just fair / poor quality (BC's).  I have a fairly long history of unsuccessful attempts following having DS in 2015 and in considering one final IVF attempt if this FET doesn't work, I want the time to IVF to be as short as possible (or I'll just be another couple of months older).  I know lots of ladies in their very late 30's and early 40's who have had two embryos put back and had one baby.  But I also know women who have had two put back and had twins.  There are of course all the added risks with a multiple pregnancy but you have to weigh everything up.  There are lots of twins in my extended family and there were no problems at all with pregnancies.  But one thing which initially put me off having two transferred was something my consultant said.  Some embryos are good enough to go on for a few days, some a few weeks, some full term etc.  He was not surprised to hear that I have had lots of chemical pregnancies and found some of them out when I tested early (these later became BFN on OTD).  You will see in my signature how many test day 'official' chemical pregnancies I have had - most of the BFNs I've had were also chemicals but the tests turned negative on or before OTD.  But he said that if having two put back, and one is strong enough to make it to full term and the other isn't, this could put the pregnancy at risk.  This is the one concern I have remaining.  At this point after all of the attempts, I think I would be over the moon with twins as that would be a complete blessing.  I don't know how I would manage being a solo Mum with a 3YO already but I would!  But it's a risk I'm now willing to take as I throw everything at these last couple of shots.  Big question to ask is - would you want twins?  If no, just put back one xx


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

Hi ladies, joining you as my first FET with a 5AA  failed two days ago due to my very low progesterone levels on day of transfer (very cross with my clinic about that one I feel like we might as well have just thrown my embryo away as a level as low as mine has found to be highly predictive of a poor outcome no matter how good the embryo is). Anyway, I must move on and make sure “we” don’t make the same mistake next time. So, moving on to our 5AB for the next cycle. I’m currently on holiday in Sardinia continuing to take the dreaded intramuscular progesterone shots to hold off AF so I can be scanned when I’m back in the UK next week so I’m expecting AF to arrive sometime between Saturday and Wednesday. It’s much harder to feel hopeful this time I have to say   ShootingStar this is how our 3rd time being cycle buddies I think!!

Questions for those who’ve had FETs before: I’m going to ask to have my thyroid checked. My lining last time was thick enough, last scan 7.5mm but that’s at the very bottom end of what they like it to be. Should I be pushing them on upping my estrogen or anything else e.g baby aspirin? What’s worked for you?


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## Jupiter 96 (Aug 12, 2016)

Good Morning everyone!

Welcome to all the new ladies...Soitis, Shooting Star, Missi, Sirialexa....

How's everyone feeling today? 

I am as grumpy as hell. AF is still MIA..... (silly cow!!) Lol!


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## CurlyGirl1225 (Jun 26, 2013)

Hi all

I’ve got my transfer in2 hours!


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## Jupiter 96 (Aug 12, 2016)

Woo-hoo!  Good luck CurlyGirl!


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi welcome ladies.
Missl73 how much estrogen did you take?
Jupiter fingers crossed af will be here soon.
Curleygirl good luck, will be thinking Of you x


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## CurlyGirl1225 (Jun 26, 2013)

Hi

Transfer all done. Sadly first embryo didn’t thaw probably so they had to use our number two. Which means we only have one left in the freezer. This is our last ever cycle so I felt a bit sad that our chances had dropped a bit today. 

Still I’m in the 2ww now tick tock. 

Have had a lazy afternoon and I’ve said to my husband I’m really going to try and rest more this 2ww. Who knows if that will make the difference


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

Congrats on being PUPO CurlyGirl, I’m sorry to hear that the first one didn’t thaw but I hope that this is your sticky bean! 

Sarah13 I’m on 6mg a day of Progynova - I’m pretty sure that’s just the standard dose does that sound like it? I don’t know how much more they can give me? 

Jupiter I hope AF shows up for you soon, she always does this when you don’t want her to!!!


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Curleygirl congrats fingers crossed for you.i can imagine how disappointed you are for losing the first embryo.
Missl yeah that sounds right. That’s what I was on first fet and also This one too. But everyone’s different so not really sure what you would need to do x


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## Jojonz (Jun 10, 2014)

Hey Curlygirl.... aw thats tough about your 1st embryo - it's a funny feeling as you're still grateful but a little sad too. REally hope this one sticks for you! One transfer I had last year the embryo didn't go in first time and they had to do it again which I found stressful but tried to be really relaxed about it all. Resting up sounds great - what are your plans? ARe you working through?

Jupiter - grrr how frustrating? Waiting is so slow.......fingers crossed she arrives soon

Missl73 I can understand if you feel frustrated - you kinda think the clinic should be all over that kind of thing right? I"m really sorry this happened. HAve you talked it through with them so you can be confident it doesn't happen again?

Sirialexa welcome! I've had two successes with FET and none with fresh and I believe its the way to go as you say, to let your body heal. My clinic will only let me do one embryo so it's not a decision I"ve had to make!

ShootingStar great to have you here too - any ideas onwhen your transfer will be?

AFM - scan tomorrow so fingers crossed my lining is doing what it should. I"m definitely finding more side effects from the progynova this time but ah well - the things we do!

hope everyone is well x


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

goodly l for your scan tomorrow jojonz. Mine is booked for 24th x


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Lol meant good luck x🤦‍♀️


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

Jojonz - I've actually been the opposite so far with fresh versus FET in that I've only been successful on a fresh cycle.  I've heard from someone else that their clinic believes that some women do better with fresh and some with frozen, but no idea why that may be.  Apparently studies are showing that FET is supposed to be better.  I'm holding onto that as I transfer my 9th and 10th embryos.  I'm hoping that transfer will be in about 10 days time!  Scan and bloods will be on Friday.  Good luck with your scan tomorrow!

missl73 - Welcome to the thread my cycle buddy!  I hope that you are enjoying your holiday, when do you get back?

CurlyGirl1225 - Congratulations on being PUPO!  Really sorry hear that the first embryo didn't make it through the thaw.  Everything crossed that this is the one.  Taking it easy can only be a good thing.

sarah13 - How are you getting on and when is your first scan?

Jupiter 96 - Sorry to hear AF is keeping you waiting.  I hope she shows soon!  It's always the way isn't it?!

AFM - CD 10 today and my LH test was negative this morning.  I'm expecting one or two more negative tests and with a bit of luck my follicle will be a nice size by Friday morning.  I'd really rather have it triggered if they will do that.


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi everyone
I’m doing good thanks. My scan is booked for the 24th x


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Hello Everyone! 

It’s been a long time since I was on here. I’d love to join your chat and help support everyone. I need to read back on everyone’s journey but just wanted to introduce myself. 

I have a 10 month old little girl and am trying again for a sibling. I had an embryo transfer on Tuesday which went ok (except for the embryo getting stuck in the catheter twice!!) 

But I’m a bit concerned that my progesterone level was only 36 on day of transfer! Isn’t this way too low to allow implantation? 

X 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi Claudia, I really can’t help with that because iv not a clue what the level should be. Congrats on being pupo x


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

joJonz - I was devastated when I read the research and found out how unlikely it was to work for me, I will be having strong words with the clinic at my appointment on Monday. Good luck for your lining scan today I hope it’s thickening up nicely. 

Shootingstar - I’m back next Tuesday so a few more days of delicious wine and beautiful clear seas for me yet. I hope you get your LH surge soon, time is whizzing by you’ll be PUPO before I can blink! 

Claudia - I’ve replied on your other thread with more details but from what I’ve read, although yours is on the low side it’s above the cut off for poor outcomes in the studies I’ve read so stay hopeful. Unfortunately mine was only 19 when my hatching blast failed to implant which is much lower than yours but I’ve done a lot of research as a result.

Sarah13 - sounds like I’m on the standard estrogen dose. I’ve seen some ladies go up to 8mg but I don’t know if they’ll want to do it because of DVT risk I expect as I was over 7.5 last time they’ll say that’s fine and thick enough even though I wish it were a little thicker. 

AFM - I’m deliberately delaying my AF so I’m back in the UK in time for my scan but only one more horrible prontogest injection to go and then I can have a few drug free days yay!! Also trying to keep my drugs under 25C when we’re in Italy and on the road a lot has been a challenge. Consultant appointment booked for Monday so we can talk about how we messed up my most recent FET...!


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

missl73 - Lovely to hear you are enjoying your break.  Well done for putting off your cycle so you can get going with your next AF.  Now you know about the progesterone levels, at least you can do something about this for the next one, although I completely understand the frustration, and sadness with the first two 5AAs.  My DS was from a 5BA embryo - I think anything with BA and hatching is considered top quality.  Enjoy the rest of your break and come back all refreshed to go again.

Claudia H - Congratulations on being PUPO!  I hope you get some reassurance about your progesterone levels.  I'm going to have mine tested this time around.  Are you on progesterone pessaries or injections?

sarah13 - I hope the time goes quickly for you to your scan.  The waiting is the worst part isn't it!

I hope everyone else is doing OK?

AFM - Negative LH test again this morning which was as expected.  I'm kind of thinking it will be positive tomorrow, but my scan is tomorrow anyway.  Nothing much to report from my side at the moment!


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## Sirialexa (Jun 2, 2019)

First of all, a big HELLO to Shootingstar77, Jonjonz, Missl73, Jupiter96, Curlygirl1225 and Sarah13 ...and anyone else reading this thread.

Sorry I haven’t replied back sooner. I’ve been suffering  from delayed OHSS. Finally all good now since yesterday. Luckily my doctor predicted it and prescribed me two bottles of  Dostinex. He also kept saying take fluids, however his English isn’t too great and I thought he just meant water ...he actually meant electrolytes... since I figured it out I have to say Lucazade is a god sent. #notanadvert

Anyway, just caught up on the thread. Thank you Shootstar777 and Jonjonz for your advice. After a week of bloated tummy, I don’t think I can carry two! I’m a petite 4ft 11in (almost 5ft). Then again I might change my mind as I still got till end of August to decide.

By the way, I thought doctors are supposed to check endometrium thickness and progesterone level either on day before embryo transfer or on the day. If so, how thick should the uterus lining be and what level should the progesterone be at for implantation on embryo transfer day.


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

Shootingstar - that’s comforting to know your DS came from a BA hopefully I can be so lucky! Any LH surge today? 

SiriAlexa - I’m sorry to hear about your delayed OHSS I’m glad to hear your feeling better now though. My clinic like the lining to be over 7mm for FET and Progesterone level over 50nmol/L. 

AFM - I finally had my follow up with the clinic yesterday about my failed FET earlier this week. Although they were never going to admit fault over my progesterone disaster they have acknowledged it could be part of the problem. Next time I will be starting on the prontogest IM injections right away as soon as I start taking progesterone, we’ll test my levels the day before not the day of transfer so we can have time to correct further if necessary. As my lining was on the thinner side (8mm although triple layered) I’ve also been asked to take 75mg aspirin and 1000iu of vitamin E to see if we can thicken it up a bit more. I feel a lot happier with this plan. I’ve stopped taking all my drugs so AF can arrive so given my out of control PMS I’m hoping it arrives sooner rather than later!


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

missl73 - I hope that this is your embryo!  Glad to hear you have got the follow-up out of the way.  It's a difficult one because it's hard to complain when you are having treatment with the same clinic and you have to also think about your stress levels.  But if you do feel that you want to take up the issue with the clinic then don't feel like you have to just accept what they say, you can take the issue up formally.  The hospital should have a PALS service, and there are also community health councils who can help you navigate the complaint if that is what you feel you want to do.  I'm glad though that they are doing things differently this time for you, which is obviously the main thing, and you are feeling happy about the way forward.  And it's good they have said that it could be a contributing factor.  It's very hard to prove I suppose.  I think it's important to feel involved when decisions are being made about treatment, especially when you are having concerns.  I have everything crossed for you that this will be your cycle.  Hurry up AF so you can get going!!

Posted by: Sirialexa - Sorry to hear about the OHSS and hope that it gets better for you soon.  I can't help with your lining and progesterone questions but others can.  I'm wondering about progesterone myself as the one and only time I've ever had it checked it was only 36...

AFM - Sorry for not updating after my scan yesterday.  I had bloods taken for E2, LH and progesterone.  My lining was measuring almost 16mm, which the nurse was happy with.  However, when I questioned whether the lining could ever be TOO thick (as mine is always very thick), she said it can.  So that's obviously concerning...  Anyway, my follicle measured 16.5mm so I knew that was big enough to trigger.  The plan was not to trigger this time and to go with the LH surge, but because I know my follicles can sometimes get to 24mm before they ovulate on a natural cycle, I asked for the trigger.  My thinking is that the lining is getting thicker each day and if it takes another few days to get to LH surge, then my lining could get too thick.  If I'm triggered then we are transferring at the earliest possible time.  So trigger was done late last night and I will transfer my two embryos on Friday!  I'll go back for bloods again on Monday morning to check I've ovulated and that my progesterone level is high enough.  I think I'm also going to ask for additional progesterone level checks at the time of transfer and perhaps afterwards because I don't know if the hCG injection can increase progesterone levels...I'll ask about this.  The last think I want is for the trigger to give a false impression that my progesterone levels are OK only for them to drop as the trigger wears off! xx


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## CurlyGirl1225 (Jun 26, 2013)

Good luck shootingstar. I’ll be really interested to see how you get on as I was cancelled for having a too thick lining and couldn’t really find anything on google to suggest what was too thick


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi CurlyGirl1225, do you remember how thick your lining was when you got cancelled?  Thanks for the good luck wishes.  They are going ahead but I have to say, I'm a bit worried that my lining has been really thick on each cycle.  I hope you're doing OK? xx


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## CurlyGirl1225 (Jun 26, 2013)

Hi

It was 14mm at day 9.  I guess I’d still got four days left to transfer. I was gutted.


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

HI CurlyGirl1225, that's interesting...  Mine was almost 16mm and I had 7 days to transfer.  I don't transfer until Friday.  I think I will ask when I go in tomorrow for bloods whether this could cause an issue.  Thanks for this xx


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## Jojonz (Jun 10, 2014)

Hi!

ShootingStar awesome to have a transfer date! Yay you. Actually I'm transferring this friday too so we are buddies!!
Interesting about your lining - I had a scan on thursday last week (so 8 days pre-transfer) and my lining was 11 mm... I asked about whether a lining could be too thick as I'd seen some conversation here and they said only if it gets up into the 20's.... I'll be interested to hear how you get on!

Missl good on you for following up and making a plan you are happy with. This whole thing feels so strange as everyone else is in charge of what's going on in your body so it's great you've really got the info you needed. 

Sirialexa sorry you had  OHSS but glad you've recovered

Claudia - how are you getting on? Hope the days on your 2ww aren't dragging!

And sarah - I guess you are just waiting?

AFM - had my scan on Thursday and lining was at 11 which they were happy with, had my blood test today - but haven't got the result yet (even though it's evening here) because I live rurally, I can get my scans and bloods done here but never get the results till the following day. So I started my pessaries today on the assumption all is well but hopefully will hear from the clinic tomorrow... and all going well my transfer is on Friday! I"m actually going to have two nights away by myself for the transfer which is exciting - I'll drive the 5 hours on Thursday, stay the night and then have acupuncture pre and post transfer on Friday and then drive half way back for the next night to break up the trip.. 

Is anyone else doing acupuncture this cycle?

hope you are all well x


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## CurlyGirl1225 (Jun 26, 2013)

Hi all 

Anyone who had a BFP. Did you feel any different during the 2ww ?  I’m 6dp5dt today and feeling very negative as I don’t feel anything at all


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## Jojonz (Jun 10, 2014)

Hi curlygirl 
I've had 2 BFP and never felt any different at all. So surprised both times specially the second one where I had an awful cough right through and then got a vomiting bug too. She is 2 now!


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

CurlyGirl1225 - No symptoms doesn't mean a thing.  It's so hard I know, but try to stay positive.  I've had BFPs both with and without symptoms.  Wishing you all the best for the coming days.  When is OTD for you?

Jojonz - You're an actual cycle buddy!!  How exciting!  And thanks so much for the info about the lining too, that does sound more positive if it's only an issue if it gets into the 20s.  Good luck for Friday 

I hope everyone else is doing OK?

AFM - I went to the clinic for my blood test today.  I was told when I got there that there was no need to test because I've had the trigger and so ovulation has definitely happened.  I explained to the nurse that I was sure I do always ovulate (I normally feel it) but my reason for wanting the test was I wanted to know my progesterone level.  I explained that I was finding it hard to understand how they can know my level is OK without testing it and this will be my 9th and 10th embryos being transferred since having DS (I've had 4 x IUI too!) and that I know something else must be going on.  Anyway, she said to call in a couple of days for the results.  I missed a call later today from the clinic and need to call them back tomorrow but the voicemail said the results are back and she wants to discuss what the doctor has said about them.  So it sounds like they might be low.  I will update tomorrow when I find out but feeling pretty heartbroken, angry and many other feelings at the moment that if my progesterone is low then this might be the cause of my failed cycles and very early losses xx


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## CurlyGirl1225 (Jun 26, 2013)

Shootingstar. Frustrating. Let’s hope it’s simple info that they want to pass on to you. God this process can be so draining

Afm. I tested today. Negative. That’s 7dp5dt. I feel like my period is due which is odd when I’m taking Progesterone. I just feel angry and snappy today at this whole bloomin  thing.


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi CurlyGirl1225, I'm so sorry you've had a negative test today.  But please don't give up hope.  I had an extremely faint line on 7DP5DT on my last cycle, which I could have missed if I hadn't looked properly.  There was a girl on the threads a few months back too, who didn't get even a faint BFP on a FRER until about 9 or 10DP5DT and all was well on her first scan.  I hope this turns around for you.

AFM - I called the clinic this morning.  This is a very long story cut short but my progesterone level is not where they would like it to be.  Because I've had the 10,000 hCG trigger injection, I'm told this will give me the luteal phase support that I will need up to Friday (FET), but then I will have Lubion injections daily.  I'm obviously very upset that this could be the cause of my 11 failed cycles since DS was born (he was from a fresh cycle so it makes sense to me that the progesterone level was not an issue for that pregnancy).  But just for the next two weeks I am going to focus on trying to give these last two embryos the best chance of success.


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## Jupiter 96 (Aug 12, 2016)

@Shooting star
You're right to focus on the positive over the next two weeks. You never know.....

@Curlygirl
Could it still be a little early. Maybe it's implanted a little later than expected?

@Jojonz
What's the latest with you?

How is everyone else going?

AFM
On CD goodness knows what......It looks like a course of progesterone in on the cards to induce a bleed. Fingers crossed!


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

I flew in from my holiday last night so lot's to catch up on! 

Jupiter - sorry to hear you're still waiting. Doing the AF dance for you! 

Shootingstar - argh progesterone the source of all our woes!! Did they say what your level was? I'm glad to hear you'll be getting the additional lubion injections. This might sound odd to say because I know it's been really hard for you but I hope it was the progesterone that was the issue and that resolving that brings you your much-wanted baby. I think your attitude is the right one and I have absolutely everything crossed for your little embryos. 

Curlygirl - I'm sorry to hear about your BFN. It is still a little early but nonetheless, it's always upsetting to see a negative test so I hope you're doing ok. 

Jojonz - that's so excited you have a date booked for transfer! Only 2 more days until you're PUPO! 

AFM - AF turned up when I wanted her to so today is cycle day 3 and I'm going in for my scan. I'm back on the awful nasal spray and I'll be starting progynova again tonight I expect. Hoping with the asprin and added vitamin E that I get a thicker lining this time. Based on my last FET I expect my transfer to be in about 21 days from now.


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## Jojonz (Jun 10, 2014)

HI everyone!

Missl - great that you're underway. It;s so nice to have some dates isn't it? What is the nasal spray for?

Jupiter - this must be testing your patience!

ShootingStar - aw that must feel so frustrating but good on you for keeping so positive and focused on what you CAN do right now. wishing you all the best for Friday. 

Curlygirl so sorry you've had a negative - really hope that changes in the next day or two... this is a TOUGH journey...

AFM - I had the 6 hour drive today to the city where my clinic is - was a really lovely day for the drive and now I"m in a wee apartment just relaxing and enjoying watching netflix! Transfer is at 11 tomorrow morning... so it's all go

hope everyone is doing OK x


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi everyone.lots to catch up on , iv been really busy. 
Jojonz good luck tomorrow.
Curleygirl really sorry to hear you got a negative, I’m hoping it was too early and maybe change in the next few days.
Afm theres nothing to report, I’m feeling fine with the progynova xx


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Hello everyone. I’m not very good at reading and posting so sorry for my absence... 

Shootingstar - very frustrating indeed but I hope they may have finally figured out the cause and can prevent it from happening again. You’re moving forward in a positive way now which is great. 

Curlygirl - I’m so sorry it’s always just so difficult and there really is nothing anyone can say. Just know that we are all thinking of you and we’ve been there and understand  the tears. Big hugs xxx 

Missl73- how is the nasal spray going? I never did well with that and was lucky to mostly do the suprecur injections instead. 

Jojonz- how exciting transfer is tomorrow!! I have everything crossed for you! 

AFM - I’ve been getting BFPs since Monday. just had my beta drawn this morning and it’s 137 at 9dpt so I’m pretty pleased with that. I was very worried because I had a pretty low progesterone level on the day of transfer and thought it would prevent implantation but seems not which is great. Seems a high level is mostly important to maintain the pregnancy from here on in. 

Xx 


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

Claudia H - Thank you for your words.  I hope that this time the FET works, although these are poor quality embryos.  Congratulations on your BFP and beta result which is sounding very good!  

Jojonz - Thank you for your good luck wishes!  Good luck for your transfer tomorrow too!   Are you an early tester?  I need someone to encourage me not to test early, although with a 10,000IU trigger, I think this might mean I can't test until test day anyway!

missl73 - Welcome back from your holidays.  I hope you are feeling refreshed!  Yes, progesterone.  Well, it wasn't really clear whether the result the nurse was talking about was the one from day 12 (prior to ovulation), or the one from day 15 (the day after ovulation).  My level was 6 (6 point something).  The nurse explained that the level does not peak until about 6 days after ovulation.  But 6 sounded very low to me anyway, and the consultant seemed to think so too.  I am taking Lubion from tomorrow and will supplement with Cyclogest.  Thank you for your wishes.  In a way I hope it was the progesterone too so that this cycle has at least a chance of working but I am yet to decide what to do about the fact that this has not been spotted earlier.  I have had some very good quality embryos transferred (8 over the course of 2.5 years) and to think that this could be down to progesterone being low is a pretty difficult thing to accept.  It's such a basic thing.  I hope too that your cycle is positive this time!  Great news that AF has showed for you.  How did your scan go?  The big countdown to FET begins!  I hope the time goes quickly for you.

Jupiter 96 - Thank you.  How are you getting on?

CurlyGirl1225 - I hope you are doing OK.  Have you tested again since?

I hope everyone else is doing OK?

AFM - FET tomorrow.  I'm a bit nervous about the Lubion injections because I will have to do them myself.  Can you only inject them in your backside or can they go in your leg?  I will update after the transfer tomorrow to let you know how I got on xx


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## Jupiter 96 (Aug 12, 2016)

Jojonz said:


> HI everyone!
> 
> Missl - great that you're underway. It;s so nice to have some dates isn't it? What is the nasal spray for?
> 
> ...


Good luck for tomorrow Jojonz


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Shootingstar- sorry I didn’t realise you had an FET tomorrow too. Good Luck! I always injected Lubion into my tummy. I thought it was an SC injection? Not an IM - but maybe they make it in two different kinds... ? Best to check. Anyway if it’s The SC one it was a fairly pain free injection so you should be ok. Let us know how the transfer goes. What grade is the embryo? X 


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## Jojonz (Jun 10, 2014)

Hey crew! 

Shootingstar...good luck for today! Really hope this is your time.  I'm unsure about testing early but think I will wait. I tested ar home with my ones last year and both ended in chemical so think I might wait.

Claudia ...congrats! How exciting for you to have the confirmed blood test!

Sarah do you have a transfer day yet? 

Jupiter thank you for the well wishes! 

AFM...I'm PUpO! All went as well as possible...my embryo defrosted well and my bladder was so blimmen full it was awful hit at least they had a great view so thats grea. Had a chilled day otherwise and drove half way home in pouring rain so only 3 hour drive today and same tomorrow morning. I'm planning on a very relaxed evening now!


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

Sarah13 – glad to hear all is going well, when is your next scan?

Claudia – congratulations that’s wonderful news, I’m so pleased it all worked out ok for you. Fingers crossed this is a sticky bean and you have a happy, healthy few months ahead. 

Shootingstar -  congrats on being PUPO I hope all went smoothly yesterday. I’m glad they’ve got you on the Lubion injections this time – lucky you avoiding the prontogest much less painful! My scan went fine so now just growing this lining hopefully thicker than last time! I expect transfer will be the first week of August. Are you planning on testing early again or do you want us to try and encourage you to stay strong and hold out until OTD this time?? 

Jojonz – congrats on being PUPO, it’s hard to maintain your dignity during transfer isn’t it?! Rest up and take it easy. Here’s hoping that little embryo is making itself nice and comfy in there. Do you mind if I ask what grade your embryo was? 

AFM – I’ve been on a real emotional rollercoaster this past few days. This will be my first ever transfer of an embryo that isn’t AA which is throwing me. Not that it should because all I have to show for my “perfect” embryos is a MMC and a BFN but I just find it so hard to believe that this one (or the other 2 I have in the freezer) is going to work. I’m trying really hard to stay positive and believe it will work but I’m not finding it easy at all this time. A week today until my next scan.


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Missl73- it’s totally understandable to feel that way but please try not to get too hung up on grading. It really is just a laboratory tool for picking the prettiest embryo and doesn’t really mean all that much. If it’s any consolation the embryo I transferred last week wasn’t an AA. And I think it’s good to remember that we have no clue what grade embryos people who get pregnant naturally have - I’m sure they aren’t all AA! I know it’s hard to stay positive when you’ve had a lot of failure and disappointment but it really does just take the right embryo and then you’re in an entirely different place. Xx 


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

Claudia H - Thank you for your wishes!!  Yes, the nurse explained that Lubion came in a higher strength which had to be IM.  Mine is SC too!.  I hope you are doing OK?

missl73 - Thank you!!  Transfer was this afternoon, and have updated below on how things went.  Yes, I was really relieved when I found out that the injections were subcutaneous and not intramuscular!  But on the other hand, I found out they were only 25mg and not 50mg.  I don't know how this equates to levels in the blood, so I'm hoping the extra Cyclogest supplementation will do the trick, at least as far as progesterone levels go.  Good to hear your scan went well and I've everything crossed for a nice thick lining for you this time.  You'll be transferring just after my OTD.  No, I'm not planning to test early this time, so any encouragement you can offer to help me stay off the pee sticks would be really appreciated!!  I admired your strong resolve not to test early last time, especially when most of the rest of us on the board did!  Now for your embryo.  Embryologists can see how an embryo looks but can't see genetics.  AA, AB, BA are all top quality and have excellent chances of making it.  In fact, the embryologist today told me that they do often see pregnancies from BC embryos (mine were both BC), and sometimes transfer the best quality AA embryos and they don't make it.  You have your progesterone issue sorted this time so if it did happen to have anything to do with that, you have that base covered.  My DS is from a 5BA.  Keeping everything crossed this is your time.  I know it's hard not to worry because we seem to magnify anything less than perfect xx

Jojonz - Congratulations on being PUPO!  Glad to hear everything went smoothly for you.  Time to put your feet up now.  When is OTD for you?  Thank you so much for your wishes!  Good on you for waiting to test.  I plan to do the same this time around, but might have to pop on here a bit more often to get some encouragement to wait!

I hope everyone else is doing OK?

AFM - So I had a nervous wait this morning after the embryologist called.  Normally they call back an hour after they defrost the embryo to tell me a time.  But this time, the embryologist said that it would be 2.5 hours before we would know if the embryos would be OK.  So I was on pins for this time waiting for the call back but when she did, I could hear the smile while she was talking and told me that it was good news that both embryos had survived the thaw and to come in.  I went in, picked up my Lubion then did an injection while I waited for transfer.  The embryologist was pleased with how both had expanded after the thaw.  They had been frozen as 3BC and 4BC, and just before transfer, they were back to 3BC and 4BC.  She explained that the expansion showed the embryos were healthy, and now I just have my fingers crossed that they are genetically fine.  I'm now PUPO with twins!  I'm not going to test early this time for a few reasons.  I want to avoid the cost of multiple pregnancy tests, I don't want to get on the rollercoaster (it will be a rollercoaster anyway!), I want to stay in the PUPO bubble, I have had a 10,000IU hCG injection this time so any test I do may show a false positive and I want to see if I can tell from my own body if it's worked xx


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Hi everyone, can I join in? I had my baseline scan for FET and all looked fine so I've started progynova and prednisolone so I guess I'll be transferring early August?

We have 4BC embryos in the freezer and I'll just be transferring one. Feeling a bit nervous about the grading as it seems low but *shootingstar777* your post about what your embryologist said makes me feel better (congrats on being pupo!). Has anyone else had any experience of success with BC graded embryos?


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## Jupiter 96 (Aug 12, 2016)

Welcome PippityPoppity!
I am trying not think about the embryo grading as ultimately it is about the chromosomes and that is only known after testing and we are not testing or have tested the embryos we have in the freezer. Ours are Bs and Cs, no As..... 

After baseline scan on which CD did you start the Meds?

@Shootingstar
Congrats on being PUPO with twins. It must be like a dream come true! How do you plan to manage the 2WW?

@Missl73
How are you doing? There are lots of cases on here of lower quality embryos resulting in take home babies. Fingers crossed for you!

@Claudia
Congratulations on the BFP! Let’s hope that you have started a lucky thread for all of us!

@Jojonz
Yay for being PUPO! How was the journey back? Any symptoms so far?

@Sarah & Curlygirl
How are you both doing?

Jx


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

Jupiter - thanks for your words of encouragement I’m trying not to think about it any more. Has AF finally turned up for you?? 

Pippitypoppity - sounds like we are on a very similar schedule. When is your first scan? 

Shootingstar - I found it quite hard to find good information on how different types of progesterone administration translate but I know oral is the worst so I think Lubion together with the cyclogest will make a difference for you. I will help you to stay strong, you can do it. My top tips are don’t buy any tests or have them in the house so you can’t be tempted, and any time the urge to test takes you distract yourself and do something else fetch a drink, go for a walk etc and hopefully the feeling will pass. Be proud of yourself for every day you don’t test. As you say, you don’t want to catch the tail end of the trigger anyway. I know AB is still a great embryo I just have to hope this is the one. I’m really curious to see if the aspirin/Vitamin E combo will make a difference to my lining. 

Claudia - I know you’re right and it just takes the right embryo. I so hope this set of frosties has one. We’re coming up to the same time last year I got my BFP and it feels so frustrating to still not be pregnant again - I can’t believe how the time just disappears. 

AFM - I can’t catch a trick at the moment! I had my lovely designer handbag stolen at the theatre with my meds in it so quick dash (aka 3.5 hour round trip) to the clinic this morning  to replace what was taken. I watched the whole thing back on CCTV with this woman brazenly walking out holding my handbag and it makes me so angry. Thankfully, I had my phone and cards on me so she didn’t get any money just my work laptop which is very secure (I work for a tech company and is insured) and the bag itself.  I was joking with my boss this morning I hope she tries my drugs so she can also enjoy the lovely side effects of Synarel!!


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Jupiter - baseline scan was on CD2 and I started meds the same day. Has your AF arrived yet?

Missl73 - I had my first/baseline scan on Friday (CD2) and I have my next scan a week on Monday so fingers crossed my lining will be ok. That’s shocking your bag was taken but luckily nothing too personal/valuable in it and at least you could get the medication replaced on the same day (sorry about the 3.5 hour trip though - how annoying!). It did make me laugh thinking about the thief getting a bit of payback trying the medication! I hope they felt bad if they realised what the medication was for. What CD are you on?

Is anyone doing acupuncture? I have done it in the past but realised I don’t actually find it very relaxing so have decided not to do it this cycle. Hopefully that’s the right choice. X


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

missl73 - Yes, same here.  I'm hoping that the injection means that it will be absorbed better.  Thank you for your encouragement about the early testing.  I think with this time being so soon after the chemical, it may help that it's fresh in my mind!  I think you're right that celebrating each non-test day is the right thing to do!  I'll post here too after each day.  Really hoping here that the vitamin and aspirin makes a difference for you this time.  I'm sorry to hear about your handbag and that you had to do another round trip to the clinic to pick up more medication.  I'm glad she didn't get any money from you but I hope that with CCTV they manage to catch her.  And as you say, she might just try your nasal spray - let's just hope so!

Jupiter 96 - Thank you!!  Yes, it's exciting, although I'm struggling this time to remain positive as it's pretty much my last shot and I've had so many failed cycles.  This 2WW I am planning not to test early and try to remain as positive as possible!  I won't be able to stop symptom spotting though...  Do you know yet when to expect AF?

PippityPoppity - Thank you!!  And welcome to the thread!  As others have said, grading is just that.  If the embryo is genetically normal and is meant to stick, it will stick regardless of the grading.  You probably know that the The 'B' grade of a 4BC embryo is for the inner cell mass and the C is for the outer layer of cells.  My DS is from a BA embryo - so the inner cell mass was the same.  Some studies I've read online suggest it is the inner cell mass grade which determines success, whereas other studies suggest the opposite.  Pretty much any information you can find online is conflicting, and so probably best ignored.  My embryologist said that she would consider my embryos (3BC and 4BC) to be average (she told me this after I'd said I thought they were poor quality).  So I was happy she said that 

I hope everyone else is doing OK?

AFM - 1DP5DT and not feeling anything.  Perhaps some very mild cramps which could be just because of the procedure yesterday.  I am very thirsty today and this makes sense with the increased progesterone!  I'm on the lookout for cramping over the next couple of days, and going to resist the urge to test at all.  I will keep telling myself that there is no point anyway as on one of my previous cycles I had a very faint BFP for almost 17 days post 10,000IU trigger!


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

Pippitypoppity - today is CD7 for me so we’ll be very close together in our timings. My first scan to check the lining is on Friday but I think I’ll need a few more days after that as last time I took 13 days of meds to get it thick enough and that will only be 9 days. Have you had a FET before or is this your first one? 

Shootingstar - I believe in you, you can do it! We’ll help keep you accountable. As you well know until at least 6DP any result would be highly sceptical anyway, the big resistance is between 6DP and OTD. You’re already one day down!! Stay in your PUPO bubble. 

AFM - doing my best to be patient, exercise every day for blood flow and stay positive. To be honest I’ve pretty much mentally prepared for the fact I’ll be doing another fresh in October once all my frosties are used up so anything other than that will be a pleasant surprise!


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## Sirialexa (Jun 2, 2019)

Hi everyone!

How’s your week been since I last messaged? 

@PippityPopity - Welcome,

@ShootingStar and @Jojoba! Congratulations and best of luck to  you both on being PUPO! 

@Missl73 - it’s ok to be on an emotional rollercoaster. Hang n in there .... you never know, when you least expect it you maybe surprised with your perfect kill miracle(s).

AFM - last weekend I felt like I was on the same rollercoaster ride as @Missl73. After performing NGS (aka PGA) our embryologist informed my DH and I that our 4AB and 3 AB were not viable for transfer at all and chances of MC would be high if we proceeded. We got 6 more Frozen embryos left now, and they suggested we test all of them first and also for both my DH and I to have Karyotype blood tests done. They believe genetically either one or both us are genetically resulting in embryos that are not viable. Understandably we were really upset. 

Delaying heir advice for now, and decided to only test only 2 more out of the 6 as we can’t afford to test all 6 in one go. Hoping the results are positive so that I can still make the August transfer. Here’s to hope!  Ps:- hardest thing is to act all normal around work, family and friends who don’t know. Glad to have an output here x


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

Sirialexa - Thank you!  Oh no, I'm so sorry to hear the news about the NGS testing on your embryos.  This must be so difficult.  It sounds like Karyotype blood tests is a good thing to do to rule that out.  It could just be down to extremely bad luck that those two were not viable.  It's good if you can get the embryos tested individually so can completely understand why you have chosen to test only two more.  I'm keeping everything crossed for you that you get good news.  Do you know when you might get the results?

missl73 - Thank you so much for your moral support!!  So far I have not had any urges at all to test (I know I'm only on 2DP5DT but I'm normally at this point counting the days to 4DP5DT to start.  Little point in that this time as if I did test, you're right that I'd have a positive because of the trigger (I'm certain!).  I had a BFP all the way up to OTD from a 10,000IU trigger once - and I watched the line get lighter, so unlikely to have been a chemical.  Any test before OTD would be skeptical.  I'm enjoying the PUPO bubble so far although I wish I had some cramping to keep me more comfortable!  It's a good idea to have all of your next steps planned but in honesty, you are transferring a fantastic embryo with what will hopefully be a nice thick lining, and a good progesterone level.  You have everything working in your favour this time!  Sending you lots of positive thoughts.

I hope everyone else is OK?

AFM - 2DP5DT and so far nothing to report.  No cramping or anything like that.  With BFP cycles I've usually had cramping on 2-3DP5DT, but this complete lack of cramping is a bit disappointing.  The Lubion injections are very painful - each time I inject, I get a little lump under the skin which seems to take hours to go down and is very sore!  But glad of them as I know they are necessary!


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## Jojonz (Jun 10, 2014)

Hey everyone

ShootingStar - you sound pretty resolute about not testing which is awesome.I know what you mean about lack of  symptoms but honestly each cycle is so different and I just never know what is from meds / nothing to do with a wee embie! I would love to help you hold out and not test till OTD - what IS your OTD??

Sirialexa that sounds really really tough - good idea to take some time to process and make the right decisions for you. and I so know what you mean about acting normal - it is such a strange feeling isn't it when you have such important things going on but have to just carry on as normal ( although sometimes I feel it probably helps too)

Missl that is terrible about your handbag being stolen. Glad you could replace everything OK but just want you didn't need. Love that you are keeping the blood flow going!

Pippitypoppity - hi! and welcome! I did acupuncture for my last few cycles and have really enjoyed it but I actually didn't enjoy it on Friday so if there is a next time (and hopefully I won't need to do another round!) I don't think I would do it again - specialy for the cost/ 

jupiter and sarah - hope all is well

AFM - 3dpt today and feeling totally normal. Maybe overdid the vacuuming yeterday so spent some useless time worring about that - ah this  journey is so up and down. I'm doing daily yoga and trying to go for a wee walk daily and also listen to the Zita West meditations which I really like as it makes me feel like I'm actually doing something proactive ha ha... but otherwise it's just that wierd 2ww space where you have to act pregnant but who really knows?! My otd is on Monday and I might POAS on Monday morning before my beta but we will see. I'm away for a famly weekend this wekene which will help the time to fly


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## Jupiter 96 (Aug 12, 2016)

Good Morning everyone!

Here's to a healthy and happy week ahead....

@Sirialexa
You are being so strong, it must be difficult to hear such news but at least you still have Frosties, there is still hope!

@Jojonz
The joys of being PUPO... I guess most women may not even know they are pregnant and could be hoovering or lifting boxes without because it's would be too early to two and they still get pregnant. At least you have acknowledged the alleged exertion and can rest a bit more to balance it all out.

@PippityPopperty
Thanks for the information. I guess I am trying to work out what will be happening next for me by comparing cycle steps with all of you. I feel a tad exasperated by this whole process and we haven't even got properly started yet!

@Shootingstar
Hope the Lubion injections get a little less painful and the little embie settles in nicely 

@Missil73
It's not over until it's over but it must be reassuring to know that you have the option of another cycle to fall back on.

@Sarah/Claudia
Hope that everything is coming along nicely for you both

AFM
AF finally showed up. I rang the clinic and they  booked me in for what is described as a "baseline" scan but this will be on CD9 so I am guessing they still plan to put me off one more month or however long it takes for the next AF. 
I am wondering if it's still possible given my lack lustre cycle timing whether it's possible to start the medication directly on CD9 after the scan if everything in there looked okay or would that be too late?  I am also going to ask about doing a semi natural cycle if I can't start a medicated cycle on day CD9.  Not sure what's possible but Sep/Oct are really awkward for us to cycle so we were hoping to have had one or two transfers by that point. 
Oh well. I guess I have to have a little faith right now.


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

Jupiter 96 - Thank you, the injection this morning was much less painful as a lady on the other thread advised to warm it up in my hands before injecting and then massaging out the lump!  It worked a treat.  Yes, this process can be a bit exasperating.  Great to hear that AF showed for you so you can get going.  My first scan was on CD12 this time and it was just to check there was a follicle growing.  If you're doing medicated though, I would be tempted to check that they don't think you are doing natural as I think you are supposed to start medication earlier than CD9, unless as you say they are putting you off until next cycle to transfer.  If you ovulate naturally perhaps they might let you go natural if your lining is fine?  I triggered on CD12 and have been taking progesterone support, with transfer on 5 days post ovulation.  Always good to ask questions.

Jojonz - Thank you, yes I'm pretty determined this time.  I have never had a cycle where I haven't tested early!  Thank you also for your moral support - my OTD is 30th July, so a day after yours!  This journey really is full of ups and downs.  Feeling positive one minute and negative the next.  It sounds like you are doing all the good things with yoga and Zita West.  I hope you are managing to stay generally positive!

AFM - 3DP5DT today and not feeling very positive at the moment.  I have had zero symptoms that are not related to the progesterone.  I have had no cramps at all and no backache (cramps and backache are usually my BFP early telltale signs).  I am having very very vivid dreams and deep sleeps at night and realise now that this is related to the higher progesterone levels, as it's really too early for this to be a sign of pregnancy.  Warming the Lubion and massaging the lump really worked this morning and the injection wasn't as painful.  Sending positive thoughts to everyone! xx


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

SiriAlexa - I'm sorry to hear you're having a tough time too and that your embryos tested non-viable. It sounds like you have a lot of embryos to choose from though, so I'm very hopeful for you that you'll have some good ones in there. DH has had karyotype testing but I haven't, if none of these embryos from this batch take I will ask to be tested too because statistically we should be getting at least some genetically normal embryos and I've already had one MMC due to Trisomy so I understand how you must feel. When will you get results of the next 2 you're testing? 

Shootingstar - You're doing so well I'm proud of you!! I'm sorry to hear you're not feeling positive (I've been there so I get it!) I know it's hard to not have symptoms but you know what I think about that, I have had no symptoms on both my BFP and BFN cycles so it doesn't mean much. Just visualise those little embryos making themselves comfortable. How many DPT is your OTD? Is that when you're going to wait until? My clinic has a 9DP OTD even for frozen transfers so if that's the same for you then you're already a 3rd of the way through! By lunchtime tomorrow you'll be half way. 

Jupiter - my baseline scans have always had to be between days 2 - 5 for a medicated HRT cycle, I had to start taking Synarel to suppress my natural hormones from CD1. I know different clinics have different protocols though? Did they are saying why they are making you wait until CD9 for your baseline? Are you taking anything to down-reg?

AFM - this last failure has hit DH and I really hard and put a lot of strain on our relationship. I've just spent a couple of days with my family to give us a break from each other as we're just fighting all the time at the moment and I know it's because of the strain this process is putting on us. I'm on CD9 now, first scan on Friday so things are moving quite quickly. I'm enjoying all days not taking the intramuscular progesterone as my bum has just about recovered from the bruises from last time and I'm hoping they'll be fully gone just in time for me to recreate them all over again!


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## Jojonz (Jun 10, 2014)

Missl This is SUCH a tough journey and I think it's not uncommon for it to put a strain on your relationship. Good on you for taking some space and I hope it is helpful for you and your DH

ShootingStar that's great you've found the injections less painful! And sorry you're finding it hard to stay positive - it's so tough this 2ww isn't it?! I"m the same - I know it's FAR too early to have anything other than symptoms related to the drugs but its so hard not to overthink it isn't it?

Jupiter keep us posted - it's so important to ask all the questions we need to isn't it, specially when it is such a big thing to work around the other things in life in terms of timing. Good luck and I hope you can make it work

AFM - all OK here. 4dp today and nothing to report! No symptoms or anytning but I know it's too early... so just playing the waiting game!


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

Jojonz - Thank you.  Yes, this journey is very tough, especially the 2WW!  I hope this 2WW goes quickly for us.  Are you doing anything special to keep yourself occupied during the wait?

missl73 - Thank you!  I'm so sorry to read your update.  This process is so hard and it does take its toll on us.  Recognising that it is down to the strain that the process puts on you is good, and taking a little rest from each other really sounds like a good idea.  Thinking of you.  How exciting that it's CD9 already!  It won't be long now until you are PUPO!

I hope everyone else is doing OK?

AFM - 4DP5DT and feeling a little more positive today.  I have 'felt' some feelings of something going on since late this morning, and have had some light cramping this afternoon and evening.  But not the kind of strong implantation cramps I've had before, more like pulling and stretching.  I wonder if implantation happened, that it may have been during the night so I didn't feel it?  I know from previous cycles that this is not necessarily a good sign as I've had cramping on 4DP5DT which has resulted in a chemical before.  But I do at least feel that something is going on now which I didn't feel at all yesterday.  The vivid dreams are continuing as is the thirst.  I'm very glad to be having the extra progesterone this time around.  The cramping could all just be guess work, and completely due to progesterone.  Struggling with this heat at the moment, it's so still and hot!


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

Thanks for your kind words jojonz and shootingstar, has a long chat with hubby last night and I think we’re in a better place. Our clinic offers free unlimited counselling for IVF patients so we’re both going to make the most of that more. How are you both getting along? Any more symptoms appearing?

How are you going with resisting the urge to test shootingstar? You’re half way now so you’re doing really well if you’ve managed to hold out. 

AFM - only 2 more days until scan day. Probably a week and a half until transfer day. Time feels like it’s going by pretty slowly but I’m trying to get more positive!


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi missl73 - So glad to read your update, and that sounds like a really good idea to make use of the free counselling.  It's not long at all now until you are PUPO!  There is so much waiting with this process isn't there?  Are you happy with your protocol this time and are they going to keep a closer eye on your progesterone level?  It means a lot if you are confident in your protocol, otherwise there is so much worry.  I'm starting to believe that my progesterone level has been low all along and may well have been the reason for so many failed cycles.  Still feeling pretty much the same as yesterday with a feeling something may be going on but I've been here lots of times before so I'm not getting my hopes up.  Everyone says these symptoms can be caused by progesterone and this is likely the first time my level will have been high enough to cause these kind of symptoms.  I can't lie so will admit to having done a cheap Home Bargains test.  There is a faint second line which is probably darker than where it would be at this stage (if a true BFP) so I'm thinking it's the trigger.  I was only really testing to make sure the trigger was fully out as these tests aren't very sensitive (and I deliberately didn't do FRER), so was surprised to see a definite line.  Last time I had a 10,000 trigger, I was still getting positives from it up until the day before test day on FRER (17 days!), so I've got to wait until OTD to get a reliable result anyway! xx


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi how’s everyone doing? Jojonz and shootingstar hope your 2ww is going fast for you. Missl we are similar timings. I had my lining scan yesterday and all was good to go, so transfer day is next Thursday . Hope everyone is well x


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

Shootingstar - I had a sneaky feeling you might cave! Are you going to keep testing every day now or are you going to wait until OTD? The trigger is highly likely to still be present so I can't add much in terms of what else I think that means, we'll just have to wait and see. I do hope that it's both trigger and implantation though! How many dpt is your OTD? I'm feeling better about my protocol generally, certainly with the progesterone side of things. My clinic also seem quite unusual in that they get you to do 7 days of progesterone pre-transfer not 5. Does anybody else's clinic do this? I did some googling are their are studies that suggest this is a good thing but it always makes you a bit nervous when you seem to be doing something that is very different to everybody else! 

Sarah13 - glad your scan went well, how thick was your lining? Only a week to wait, that's not long at all. Have you started your progesterone today? Sounds like your clinic also does 7 days of progesterone then? 

AFM - DH and I are in a much better place thank goodness. I nearly abandoned this cycle because I didn't want to go through with it while things weren't good between us but I'm glad I didn't stop my meds now. Scan tomorrow but I think it's going to be too soon and I'll need a few more days of estrogen but we'll see.


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Hi everyone, sorry been quiet for a few days - been feeling really disheartened and like it’s not going to work this cycle. Feeling a little bit more positive today so I thought I’d see how you’re all doing.

Missl73 - really glad to hear that you and DH are in a better place. This process definitely takes its toll on relationships that’s for sure! Good luck for your scan tomorrow. My clinic does 7 days of progesterone too. This is FET number four for me.

Shootingstar - I really hope the BFP is a genuine one and not just the trigger - fingers crossed for you! When is OTD? Will you keep testing do you think? 

Jojonz - how are you feeling today? Remind me when OTD is for you? 

Jupiter - I know exactly what you mean about feeling exasperated! Have your clinic said what they want you to do yet? Did you ask them about doing a semi natural cycle?

Sarah13 - good luck for next Thursday! You’ll be pupo before you know it! 

Sorry if I’ve missed anyone.

AFM - I’m on CD8 now and just counting down to my scan on Monday when hopefully I can start progesterone. Feeling a bit more positive about my 4BC embryo and just hoping my boss doesn’t question why I’m booking random days of annual leave (trying to avoid telling work until I’m actually pregnant - long story!).


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi missl ,I didn’t ask how thick it was, she just said it was lovely n thick and that I was good to go. I start my pesseries on Saturday, so five days before. I’m having 2 in morning and 2 at night x


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## Jupiter 96 (Aug 12, 2016)

Wishing you all every blessing for the future for you, your families and the babies in the air waiting to be delivered!  I have to bow out now.

Baseline scan did not give me the go ahead. Instead it looks likes womb biopsy for me. I knew that taking the anti cancer meds possibly could cause cancer of the womb, I guess I really believed my luck had turned for the better

Jxx


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Jupiter 96 - I'm so incredibly sorry to read your news.  Praying that the biopsy does not give bad news.  Sending huge hugs to you xx


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Jupiter I’m so sorry , really don’t know what to say. We pray that it’s all ok for you. We are all here for you. If you need to chat or vent out you can always pm me. Take care xx


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

Jupiter I’m so sorry, I can imagine you must be feeling scared so know we are all hoping for the best for you and that the biopsy turns out to be ok xx


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Hope you are doing ok Jupiter, thinking of you x


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## Jupiter 96 (Aug 12, 2016)

Thank you all for your kind words of support.

I am waiting for appointments for the biopsy etc and then I guess we take it from there

Best wishes 

Jx


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

Jupiter 96 - Thinking of you as you wait for your appointment.  I'm so very sorry that you're going through this xx

PippityPoppity - I'm sorry you have been feeling down about your cycle, but really glad to hear you're feeling more positive now.  Thank you for the wishes too.  I hope the time goes quickly for you - good luck for the scan on Monday.  It can be so hard to manage IVF / FET appointments around work as half the time you can't even predict when the appointments are going to be!  I have told my manager and she's really brilliant and supportive, so this takes a lot of the pressure off.  But it really depends where you work and what kind of manager you have as to whether you feel comfortable sharing.

missl73 - I've replied on the other thread.  I hope you are feeling a bit better about the cycle as the FET approaches? xx

I hope everyone else is doing OK?

AFM - Just a quick update on 9DP5DT, I did a FRER and the test line was darker than the control this morning, so I was happy with that. I do feel more reassured today.  Some clinics say to test at 9DP5DT but mine is 11DP5DT. I won’t update anymore on my news until OTD but will keep up with everyone else’s updates. Sending everyone positive wishes xx


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Congratulations shootingstar xx


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

Yay shootingstar this is just the update I was hoping to see today. I’ll save my formal congratulations for the beta but I think things look really good for you this time!!! Xx


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi missl73 and sarah13, thank you so much.  It's very early days though but it's looking good so far! xx


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Amazing news Shootingstar - that’s great that the line is darker than the control line at 9dp5dt! You must feel reassured.


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## Jojonz (Jun 10, 2014)

Jupiter - I am so terribly sorry you are goign through this. I hope you are well supported x

ShootingSTar - woo hoo!! this is so exciting for you, MAssive congarts to you.. and can't wait for updates. Will you have a blood test?

Hope everyone is going well  

AFM - OTD today just waiting on the phone call as I had my blood test this morning... it's been surprising as I was SO convinced this had worked and I was pregnant and took a HPT on Friday and it was negative - same Saturday and Sunday so I'm expecting a call to say my HCG level was a big fat 0!! will regroup[ and likely try the Colorado Protocol next month if the timing works out...


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Jojonz - so sorry to hear that you’ve been getting BFNs. I really hope that the blood test shows something different but if not it sounds like you’ve got a plan for next time! What is the Colorado protocol?


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Sorry to hear that jojonz.x


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Missl73- how did your scan go? I’ve got mine this morning, really hoping everything is looking good for both of us x


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

Jojonz - I'm so sorry to hear about your BFNs, it's always such a blow and having been there myself only 3 weeks ago I have every sympathy - take the time to feel what you need to feel. I hope that the new protocol brings you better luck. 

Pippitypoppity - good luck for your scan today. Mine was much too early as I expected as my lining has been historically resistive, last time it took until cycle day 17 for my lining to be thick enough and my scan was on cycle day 12 so it was only 5.3mm. Next scan is on Wednesday by which time I expect it to be ready to start progesterone so looks like transfer will be a week tomorrow.


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Missl73 - my lining was 7.5 which they seemed happy with but on previous transfers it’s always been above 9 so I’m worried that it’s thinner than usual for me. (Always something to worry about hey!) They don’t want to scan me again before ET so I started progesterone ready for transfer next week! Looks like we will be 2ww buddies!


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## Pucca2018 (Oct 22, 2018)

Hello everyone,

I hope you don't mind me joining your thread. I am so sorry to hear of those who had recent BFNs and wish so much success for those waiting for their BFP! I hope everyone is doing well. 

I am currently on my 2WW, only 3dp5dt and have 7 more days to go until my test. I am going up the walls... and having odd symptoms here and there. Just thought I'd join a thread as I could really do with some support from ladies who understand this journey. I have great friends but none who have experienced this process. 

Thanks for reading x


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

Pippitypoppity - my clinic are happy with anything over 7 so I wouldn't worry, last time mine was 7.5mm and with the progesterone it had thickened to 8 by the time I had transfer. What day is your transfer going to be? 

Pucca2018 - Welcome to the thread. The 2ww is always a drag, I don't believe in symptoms I didn't feel any different with my BFP than my BFN, anything you feel is going to be the progesterone and any HCG from a baby isn't going to be high enough to make you feel anything this early. We're all here to help you stay distracted!!


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

Pucca2018 - Welcome to the thread!  Congratulations on being PUPO.  The 2WW is a real rollercoaster.  Well done on joining to find other ladies going through the same thing.  Wishing you all the best for the remainder of your wait to OTD!

PippityPoppity - Thank you for your words!  For your lining, I think anything over 7 is considered fine at my clinic.  Try not to worry, as missl73 says, it may thicken up further by the time of transfer.  Wishing you luck for the coming week!

Jojonz - Thank you for your words.  Yes, I'm getting a blood test tomorrow as I think that might actually stop me POAS!  I'm really sorry to read about your BFNs.  Interested to hear what the Colorado Protocol is?  Wishing you all the very best for your next cycle.  Sending hugs to you xx

I hope everyone else is doing OK? xx


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## Jojonz (Jun 10, 2014)

Pucca - welcome! You're in the right place 0- doesn't it make a difference to talk with people who do understand? Best of luck to you!

Pippitypoppity - I totally know what you mean about always something to worry about! No relaxing that's for sure. 

Thanks to everyone for your support - beta can back at 0 so not even a sniff of implantation. I am actually so glad I took the HPT as I was so convinced I was pregnant I wuold have been really surprised (and of course upset) but at least I was prepared. And - I am so so blessed to have had success with IVF in the past so I don't take that for granted. 

the colorado protocol is recommended for people with repeat checmical pregancies (I think) which I had last year - so same as a manufactured FET but you also take asprin from before day 1 till 34 weeks of pregnancy to thin you blood and prevent clots, a steriod from 5 days pre transfer to inhibit immune response in case the failure is due to your body rejecting the embryo and also antibiotics too for a few days to reduce risk of infection from the transfer. From what I can find online (which is very minimal) it's simply a collection of added drugs that *could* help you out. I don't think it drastically improves your chances but is worth a go... 

Good luck to you all, I'll keep an eye on this group as it's such a wonderful supportive group and wish yuo all the best of luck! x x


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## Pucca2018 (Oct 22, 2018)

Hi ladies! Thanks so much for the warm welcome. 

Missl73 - Aww thank you, it's lovely to have some people to share this journey with! Where are you in your cycle at the moment?

Shootingstar - Thank you! My OTD is next Tuesday - it's going to be one long week! How did your blood test go today? Fingers crossed you got good news!

Jojonz - Thank you! I'm really happy I joined a thread. I feel like I got my crowd now. I really wish all the best for your next cycle. It's a tough journey. 

AFM - I am on 4dp5dt and really trying my best to keep distracted and not POAS! It is difficult though... I think I might buckle by 8dp5dt.   I am a little confused sometimes about all the symptoms. For my FET cycle I started the lubion injections and pessaries 5 days before the ET and during this time I didn't feel crazy progesterone symptoms. Why am I now feeling all sorts of symptoms after the ET?? I'm really tired and got cramps. That's what confuses me and makes me wonder if its a BFP?? As you can see I am wildly trying to convince myself it's a positive outcome.

Sending good vibes to everyone x


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Pucca2018 - welcome! Congrats on being pupo - you’ve been through so much to get to this pint, I hope you can enjoy being in your pupo bubble a while longer! I’ce always tested early on my previous three cycles (and sent myself absolutely mad in the process) so I’m determined not not test early this time. Fingers crossed you can hold on until at least 8dp5dt! Post on here for support when you get the urge to test - that’s what I plan on doing!

Shootingstar - let us know how your beta went. Thinking of you x

Jojonz - that’s interesting about the Colorado protocol, I hope it works for you. Good luck for your next cycle.

Missl73 - that’s good to know that some clinics only require 7mm. I feel better about my lining now - my partner keeps telling me they wouldn’t book the ET if they weren’t confident that it could work so I’ve just got to hold on to that I guess. FET booked for Monday eeeek!


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

PippityPoppity - Thank you!  Wishing you all the best for your transfer!

Pucca2018 - Thank you!  Good luck for the rest of your 2WW and OTD!  It's so hard not to POAS and I am possibly the worst person to advise on this as I'm a true POAS addict!  Sounding positive so far.  I only ever get crazy 'progesterone symptoms' with a BFP but others do say they get them with no BFP so I suppose unless you've got something to compare against, it's hard to know.  I totally get what you are saying about only feeling these symptoms after ET and why not before.  But one theory is that the level might continue to rise and you only get the symptoms when the progesterone is at a certain level?  I would prefer to believe they are down to a BFP though.  The only way to know is when you do your test.  Everything crossed for you!

Jojonz - So sorry about your beta.  Wishing you all the very best with your next protocol which does sound really good!

AFM - Thank you for your lovely messages.  It's OTD and I got my official BFP!  Clearblue digital with weeks indicator said '2-3'.  My clinic don't offer blood tests so I have been to get a hCG level test locally today and I'll receive an email sometime during the night with my result.  I feel like I'm in a dream at the moment, it just doesn't seem real after all this time.  Obviously very cautious at the moment, but optimistic that the tests are getting much darker each day now.  I'll move off this thread now but will keep popping on to catch up with where everyone is.  Sending everyone lots of baby dust and positive wishes, and thank you for your incredible support over the past weeks xxx


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi everyone
Welcome pucca x
Jojonz sorry to hear that.i hope your that the next cycle works for you. Take care x
Shootingstar official congratulations.so exciting for you. Take care x
Afm I’m in tomorrow for embryo transfer at 2 o clock.eek x


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## katkat2014 (Nov 28, 2014)

Sorry jumping on this thread. Technically I will be doing a FET this month but my clinic has let me hanging without info what to do next and my doctor is on leave.. 

MissL73, I see you also have lining issues - sorry to hear that! Can I please ask you if you down regulated at all for your cycle? I read you,'ve taken estrogen till day 17 previously, was this without down reg? Just wondering if that doesn't make the lining 'old' to wait so long... 

Afm, can anyone help? I think  someone on here did natural FET with trigger shot. Did you take an LH, estrogen and blood test the day you triggered and can you remember the results at all? I have had 4 failed natural frozen transfers and now need to make a decision if I should go again for it or medicated for my last FET. When did you take what dosage of progresterone? And what day was your FET?

The issue with medicated is that my lining doesn't grow with pills (FET 1 lining max. 6.5mm on day 17 // month later FET 2 lining 5.3mm and didn't grow between days 13 and 18 ; with down regulation). So the alternative is to go with down regulation and estrogen patches only a apparently some women can't process oral pills. I have never just taken patches only and worry so much it doesn't work again and then I waste months for my body to get rid of the meds to then go back to natural. It's my last embryo - after 13 or so transferred and no success . And I am 43   

And by the way... My lining doesn't grow either on a natural cycle but it goes to 6.5mm on trigger day and after trigger and on ovulation day , it is about 8mm - surely that should counts as being ok, what do you think? Or does the lining just before ovulation count? Sorry so many questions but I am totally desperate!


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Shootingstar- just seen your beta update to your signature! That’s an amazing beta (did both embryos stick?!). Wishing you all the best for a healthy pregnancy.

Katkat- I’ve only ever done medicated FET cycles with progynova do can’t help with any of your questions I’m afraid but hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will be able to help. Is there another consultant or nurse at your clinic you can speak to if your doctor is on leave? 

Sarah - good luck for ET tomorrow! Are you having one or more embryos put back? (Sorry if I’ve already asked this, can’t scroll back further on my phone).

Missl73, Pucca2014 - hope you are both doing ok.

AFM - nothing much to report at the moment. Just counting down the days until ET next week.


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

jojonz - wishing you all the very best for your next cycle, I hope that is your one. 

Shootingstar - i've replied on the other thread but just so delighted for you!!

Pucca2018 - symptom spotting is enough to drive anyone crazy. I hope you're doing ok and still managing to resist the urge to POAS. Stay positive, you've got this! 

Sarah13 - good luck for transfer tomorrow I hope all goes smoothly. Exciting you'll be PUPO very soon. 

Pippitypoppity - Not long now. We are no longer going to be transfer buddies though i got thrown a curve ball today i'll fill in in my update below. 

katkat2014 - I didn't DR before the cycle but I've been taking synarel since cycle day 1 to suppress my natural hormones during my FET. I did't start estrogen until cycle day 3 so I've had 13 full days worth of doses which is pretty normal for most FETs. But to answer your qustion no, your lining doesn't get old, you can take estrogen for I think it's up to 35/36 days to thicken your lining without any impact on implantation so they are extending me for another week to see how much more it grows. It doesn't start to compact until after progesterone is introduced and that's where the timing has to be very precise. I'm afraid I can't help much with what happens with a natural cycle because I've only done medicated. However, what you say about some women not processing oral estrogen very well I've heard too, so I'm now on vaginal pessaries as well so I'll find out at my next scan whether that makes the difference for me or not but it has for women on another cycle buddies board I've spoken to. What do your clinic say about it all? 

AFM - I had a rubbish day today. At my scan my lining just hasn't thickened up like it did on my last one and was only 6.5mm today (last time it was 7.5mm by now). So I've had my progynova upped to 4 per day instead of 3 and they've added in 2 x vaginal estrogen pessaries. I'll be scanned again next Tuesday to see if that's done the trick so my transfer is going to be delayed by at least 6 days. *Sigh* it's never easy this process is it!! I have to trust that this will be enough to get me there.


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

missl73 - I've replied on the other thread.  Keeping everything crossed for you for next week's scan xx

PippityPoppity - Thank you!  I don't know yet whether both have taken but from what I can gather the average level for 11DP5DT is 291 for a singleton and 561 for twins.  My level is closer to the twins average but it could just be a higher than average result.  Thank you for your lovely wishes.  Wishing you all the best for your transfer next week!

katkat2014 - Welcome to the thread!  I did a natural FET with trigger.  I had my LH, Progesterone and Oestrogen tested on the same day as triggering (CD12), but I didn't get to find out the results.  I have actually just asked for copies of all of my notes so I might be able to tell you in a few days when they arrive!  I think my progesterone level was 6 but I don't know whether that was the test from day 12 or the test I had done on CD15 (a day after ovulation).  I have done a lot of transfers with some really good quality embryos and have had a lot of very early losses and BFNs.  I transferred my last two (lowest quality) embryos a couple of weeks back and got a BFP.  But this time I had insisted on a progesterone test and it turned out that the level wasn't where it should have been after ovulation.  So it's fairly likely I think that my progesterone being low on the other cycles is what may have been the cause.  I have been taking two 400mg Cyclogest per day and injecting 25mg Lubion once per day.  I haven't actually had my progesterone level tested since but I might get this checked.  I had my FET on CD19.  I started the Cyclogest a few days before transfer and my trigger was 10,000 hCG.  Wishing you every success for this cycle!

sarah13 - Thank you!  I hope that everything went well with your transfer today?

Sending everyone positive wishes xx


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## trying1 (Jul 7, 2015)

Sorry to barge on here! Anyone doing a medicated FET wondering if you could tell Me when you start your progesterone. Is it the am the pm for the first one? I’m under 2 clinics (one for my immune issues) and he’s saying to start it 8pm and my clinic says in the am. 
Thanks so so much in advance. Xx


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## katkat2014 (Nov 28, 2014)

Hey trying, I always had to start in the morning on my medicated FET s. What's puzzling me is that you start in the evening of egg retrieval when you do a fresh cycle though...

Shooting Star this is a really great summary, thanks so much. Assume your progesterone was measured in Ng (rather than pmol)? I'd say this is the value after ovulation as before ovulation / trigger you'd want it to be less than 1 Ng ideally. Were you on 800mg cyclogest from the beginning and did you start your progresterone in the evening of 'egg collection' (I know no egg was collected)? 
It would be really great if you could share the blood results once you get them.

MissL73 sorry to hear you're having to wait longer for the lining to thicken more! Fingers crossed! Well my clinic are a pain and my doctor is on leave and nobody wants to take responsibility. Basically I just booked a day 12 scan now for the day he is back. I will send him the results and then he will tell me hopefully if he is ok to go again with my natural cycle or not and if not then it was wasted money and i will have to downregulate and try again with transdermal estrogen. Which won't work most likely. I feel like I'm going round in circles...

Hope everyone else is doing well!


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Trying1 - I’ve always started progesterone in the morning for a medicated FET. Hope that helps.

Missl73 - sorry I totally missed your update. How frustrating for you, I’m sorry you’ve got to wait another week but hopefully that will mean your lining will be perfect!

Shootingstar - oh that’s interesting about the beta numbers for singletons vs twins! Roll on your scan, hope the next couple of weeks fly by for you!

Sarah - hope your transfer went well and you are enjoying being in the pupo bubble!


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

PippityPoppity - Thank you!  I hope you are doing OK!  Not long now until you are PUPO!

katkat2014 - No problem at all!  And yes, as soon as I get copies, I'll let you know what the trigger day levels were.  I did have a progesterone test the day after ovulation too so I'll let you know what that was, although that may be less useful because apparently it doesn't reach a peak until CD 21.  I think my result actually was pmol, I knew it sounded very low.  I started with just 400mg Progesterone per day from 3 days before transfer and from day of transfer I had 800mg progesterone and 25mg Lubion.  However, if I'd known my level would be low I would have started it sooner, but I was originally supposed to have a completely natural cycle.  But after reading some storied on here about progesterone levels, I insisted on a test.

trying1 - Welcome to the thread!  Wishing you all the best for your cycle!

I hope everyone else is doing OK? xx


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi everyone.
Welcome trying.i started mine in the morning five days before et x


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

My transfer went well. My  otd is 14th August.🤞. How’s everyone else?x


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Glad it went well, Sarah. Do you think you’ll test early or wait until OTD?

I’m gearing up for my embryo transfer on Monday. Trying to stay calm and rational but I’m finding it hard - keep having crazy mood swings so one minute I’m in tears thinking it’s never going to work and then the next I feel so positive and looking at baby stuff online. I’m driving myself mad.


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi pippoty. I think I will probably test early, not sure when. Going to hold out as long as I can haha.i know it’s tough isn’t it. One minute I think it’s going to work the next I’m so sure it won’t.yesterday and today iv had stitch like pain on my left , really don’t know what it is, probably trapped wind lol xx


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

sarah13 - Congratulations on being PUPO!  I'm terrible for testing early.  I have to say though, I recommend the Home Bargains cheap tests (3 for 79p), they come in a pink box.  They were almost as sensitive as FRER for me.  Wishing you all the best for the 2WW.

PippityPoppity - Not long now!  Two more sleeps until you are PUPO.  It's hard to keep sane though this treatment isn't it.

I hope everyone else is doing OK?


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Aww thanks shootingstar.wow that is a bargain, looks like I will be popping to home bargains and stocking up haha.how are you feeling? X


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Haha Sarah, it's a great bargain!  I don't trust the cheap internet tests as it takes ages for the line to appear if there is going to be a line.  It kind of undermines the whole reason for testing early   I'm feeling OK thank you, and less nervous than the past couple of days as I'd been a bit worried that I didn't feel anything anymore, but I do again now.  I don't know if I'll make it to the scan without booking an earlier one though!  Keeping everything crossed for you xx


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

I understand .if I get a Bfp I will probably be exactly the same.x


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Shootingstar- that’s a great tip about the home bargains tests! I will have to investigate! I’ve promised my DP I won’t start testing on day 4 like usual (!!!) so am not going to have any in the house to begin with otherwise I will just test. Going to try holding out until day 7.... how many weeks will you be at your scan?

Sarah - hope you are doing ok? It’s so hard isn’t it not to over analyse every twinge or cramp! I’ve got everything crossed for you!

Hope everyone else doing ok x


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Iv been to home bargains and got a couple of packs and a clear blue.im also thinking around day 7 and my partners up for it too so there will be no holding me back.
Pippoty good luck for tomorrow xx


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

sarah13 - Haha brilliant!  Day 7 is a good day actually as you're likely to get an accurate result (although not for sure as it could come later).

PippityPoppity - No problem!  I hope you find them useful.  I'm not a fan of FRER after using these new cheaper tests.  Oh yes, day 4 is always the day I struggle with early on.  Good idea to not have anything in the house as then you can't crack.  Day 7 is also a good day to start.  Hopefully, if things continue to progress, I'll be 7+2 at the first scan.  I've looked into getting an earlier scan but no availability!

Hope everyone else is doing OK! xx


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## Pucca2018 (Oct 22, 2018)

Hi ladies, I tried to stay away from the internet for a few days to stop myself googling like mad! 

Pippitypopity - Thanks, I've tried to be happy about being PUPO, but it's such a fine line between hope and despair! I'm still holding on and haven't tested. It's 9dp5dt today! How are you? Hope your transfer goes well tomorrow! 

Shootingstar - OMG, congratulations! I am so pleased for you! I hope the pregnancy goes well and you are happy and healthy. 😊 Thanks for explaining the possible reasons behind the progesterone symptoms, that makes sense.  I can see why people POAS, it's so tempting! I'm a really anxious person so I'm scared to test early.  Just waiting for the next 48 hours to go now! 

Missl73 - I hope you get good news on your lining soon. I know its so tough to get that lining to the right thickness. And yes its so tempting to test. I feel quite sad that I haven't yet but I just feel like I might jinx myself. I also don't want to face the reality just yet.  

Sarah - congrats on being PUPO! I wish you much positivity and patience! 

AFM - I am 9dp5dt today and OTD is on Tuesday. I am so anxious about it and cannot wait to test! I haven't POAS as I think it'll just make it worse for me.  It's been a couple of interesting days.  I find I swing from symptoms and despair to full on hope and positivity. On 7dp5dt I had a drop of pink spotting on the toilet paper. I literally had to examine it to see it.  It got me worried anyhow! Next day I was so tired and basically had to nap during the day. I also had constant cramping.  Today on 9dp5dt I've barely had any symptoms apart from some clear watery discharge (sorry tmi). I got sad as I feel like maybe it's not going to be a positive one for me. I'm so afraid to face the truth I guess.  I've waited over a year to just get up ET after many cancelled cycles. I hope it works. In some ways this is all so new for me. I don't know how I'm supposed to react? It's helpful hearing from you ladies,  I guess we're all in the same boat. Anyways I've kept myself busy seeing friends over the weekend so that was nice and distracting. 

Sorry I've rambled on! Hope everyone else is ok,  I hope I haven't missed anyone! Writing from my phone. May this cycle be the one for all of us!

Pucca x


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## Pucca2018 (Oct 22, 2018)

Hi ladies, 

I have a quick question about the first morning urine for pregnancy testing. At the moment I'm waking up at around 1:30/2am to pee and then wake up at 6am for work. I sleep around 10:30pm. So would my FMU be at 2am or 6am?? Just wondering which time I'm supposed to test tomorrow! Or do i hold it in? Although that might be tricky.  I normally never wake up in the middle of the night to pee. I have been for 3 nights now,  hoping it's a good sign. 

Thanks xx


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Wow Pucca you have done really well not testing early. I think your 6 am urine will be just fine to test. Good luck xx


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Pucca - you’ve done so well not to test! 6am wee will be fine even if you’ve been to the loo in the night. Good luck for tomorrow. 

AFM - getting ready for ET... thanks for the well wishes, see you on the other side ladies x


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Pippoty hope all goes well xx


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## Pucca2018 (Oct 22, 2018)

Thanks Sarah and PippityPoppity, I'll test at 6am then! Maybe I'll also try to drink less water before going to bed so that I don't wake up at 2am. I never wake up on the middle of the night usually!

How are you both doing today? In so anxious and can't wait for the day to be over. 

X


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## WobblyTulip (Aug 12, 2015)

Hi! Wondered if I could join you all?
I did a 5dt last Monday with one of my PGS normal embryos. I’m on stacks of immune tx and under Dr Gorgy in London too. Now today at 7dp5dt, and I will have a first beta on weds. It’s been a long journey to get to the bottom of my immune issues and treat endo, but I have had one successful pregnancy after a shock BFP. DD is now 13 months old. Hoping and praying for a sibling for her...


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Welcome wobbly, when’s your otd? X


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

WobblyTulip - Welcome to the thread!  Congratulations on being PUPO!  Wishing you all the very best for Wednesday.

Pucca2018 - Thank you so much!  You've done so well not POAS.  Good luck for OTD tomorrow!  I will keep my eye open for your update!

PippityPoppity - Wishing you all the best for ET!

sarah13 - How are you feeling?  Hope you are doing OK so far.

I hope everyone else is doing OK?


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## Pucca2018 (Oct 22, 2018)

Hi everyone

PippityPoppity - Hope your ET went well.

WobblyTulip - welcome, congrats on being PUPO!

Shootingstar, Sarah - how are you both doing? 

I hope everyone else is well?

AFM - I did my test today (11dp5dt) and got a mixed result. My hospital issued test was invalid. Then I did a FRER which gave a very very faint positive line after 3 mins. I wasn't convinced by that so I did a Clearblue digital test which brought me back to reality with a 'Not Preganant' result. My hubby also saw the faint line and it's definitely not an evap line as it appeared after 3mins. At least I know I'm not imaging it!

I really don't know what to make of it?? Firstly I can't feel happy about the extremely faint positive line as the other test said it's negative. Secondly at this late in the cycle shouldn't  FRER give a dark positive result? That's the whole point of me waiting for all the way to OTD to do a test! Then a part of me wonders if this shows that it is a chemical pregnancy and my embryo didn't stick around for long.  Lastly the hopeful part of me wonders if I had a late implanter and maybe it's just early days that's why it's a faint positive on FRER. Clearblue is notorious for their 50miu/ml sensitivity so maybe it's too early for it to read it?? I did see a barely there pink spot on 7dp5dt. I'm still not bleeding yet. 

I just hate that I'm still in limbo. I hate this feeling of not knowing where I stand. I will go to the hospital for a blood test this morning so that should be a better indicator. I'm still taking my meds in the hope that it becomes a strong positive. The realist in me believes this was a chemical pregnancy and I feel like mourning. 

I had a cry as I feel so frustrated. My hubby just had a blank face. Poor thing doesn't know how to react. Just like me I guess. I feel so sad i waited to OTD only to just see this. 

So that's me for now.  I hope you are all having better days. 

Take care x


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Pucca - I’m so sorry the tests have been inconclusive, it’s an awful feeling to be in limbo and not know whether to stop meds etc - I’ve been there before and I know how horrid it is. The pink spotting on day 7 does sound like implantation bleeding and so you may just have a late implanter? Completely understand why you think it may be a chemical though. Hopefully the blood test will make things clearer. You should definitely ask for another one after 48 hours to check it’s doubling as that’s the best indicator. Lots of us on here have been in similar situations before so know you are not alone!

Wobblytulip - welcome! Good luck for your beta on Wednesday! Will you do a home test before then?

Sarah - how’s the 2ww going for you? Hope you are doing ok.

Missl73 - hope you’ve had some good news about your lining.

Shootingstar - hope you’re doing ok and not going too mad while waiting for the scan!

AFM - Well I’m 1dp5dt and already wishing I could test lol! It’s going to be a long two weeks...


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## Pucca2018 (Oct 22, 2018)

Hi PippityPoppity, thanks for your reply. It has been a difficult day so far. My beta results came back and my hcg level is 5. As I understand this is just borderline "positive" so they have to repeat the blood test on Thursday to see if it's getting any better or confirm a chemical pregnancy. I feel so sad about it all. I have felt so pregnant and yet this is all for nothing. I can't feel positive at the moment as I fear it's not going to stick. My boobs stopped hurting today,  so that's another sign. And i wonder has anyone got a hcg level of 5 to go on to have a successful pregnancy?? 

Anyway how are you doing? Hope your 2ww goes well! X


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Pippoty congrats on being pupils x

Pucca I’m so sorry your going through this. Hope your hcg levels go up.x

Afm I’m doing ok. Not feeling too much.bit of lower back ache and a terrible taste in my mouth, that’s about it. Trying to keep positive,it’s so hard x

Hope everyone else is well x


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

Pucca I'm so sorry you're going through this it's so stressful. Just take each day as it comes and see what the result is on Thursday. It's all you can do right now. We're here to support you. 

I hope everyone else is well. I'm just coming on to say I'm leaving the thread. Bad scan for me today, my lining has gone backwards. The extra estrogen has had the exact opposite effect to the one we wanted and my lining is now 1.2mm thinner not 0.5mm thicker as we had hoped. We are cancelling this cycle and I will try again next month with a natural FET instead.

Fingers crossed for you all and baby dust I hope you get your BFPs xxx


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Pucca - I’m so sorry the blood test didn’t come back with a more reassuring result. Please keep posting if you feel that it helps and we can support you.

Missl73 - I’m gutted for you that your lining hasn’t thickened. It must feel like such a setback to cancel the cycle after all this time but hopefully the natural FET next month will do the trick.

Sarah - all those symptoms sound really good to me... fingers crossed for you!

AFM - can anyone help with progesterone levels? My clinic did a blood test yesterday just before my transfer to check progesterone and it came back at 45. Due to one thing and another I didn’t actually get to speak to someone at the clinic about this result until this morning - they said it’s fine and I don’t need any extra progesterone support but I can’t seem to find anything definitive online about what the level should be. Does 45 sound ok? Thanks in advance x


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## missl73 (Mar 12, 2018)

Thanks Pippitypoppity it’s not the first time it’s happened to me so I just have to get on with it! Re progesterone my clinic like it to be 50 or over but I’ve read a lot of studies (because mine was 19 on my failed cycle) and anything over 30 is fine so I wouldn’t be worried if I was you.


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Morning girls.so I’m iv caved and tested. I did a clear blue early detection and it’s bfn. I truly believe that’s it as my embryo was a hatching blast so surely it would pick up something. Wow I feel totally gutted x


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## Pucca2018 (Oct 22, 2018)

Sarah13 - I'm sorry to hear you got a BFN  How many days past ET are you now? I also had a hatching embryo put in. Its sad we get so hopeful and then brought back to reality. In any case I think you should wait till OTD before you count yourself out for this cycle. Fingers crossed you get your positive by OTD.

missL73 - i'm really sorry to hear about the lining not improving. Its such a roller coaster with this IVF journey and there are so many hurdles to pass before we get to our end goal. I had lining issues for two cycles so I really do feel for you. I hope the next cycle improves for you and gives you a BFP. 

PippityPoppity - I'm sorry I've never had a test done to check progesterone levels so I'm not sure what result is in the right range. I hope you were able to get some clarity from your clinic?

AFM - I am doing the waiting game to find out the second beta test results tomorrow. I am not hopeful at all, and yet like a child, I went and did a FRER test just now so not using my FMU. There is no ambiguous faint positive line today. So I guess that's me out? I just want them to call me tomorrow to put me out of my misery. I desperately need the results to have certainty and closure to move forward. i feel so sad and lonely. My hubby will be on biz travel tomorrow for a few days. It's bad timing but not much we can do?! I personally don't know how to feel. I just know in my heart it's over but cannot be certain until the test. I have been scouring the internet to find positive stories of miraculous pregnancies with an initial beta of 5. None to be found. When even Dr Google lets you know, you know you're in trouble and better face reality.

Sorry for my miserable post, I just feel upset and angry. Thanks for the support ladies. It really helps to talk about this stuff.

I really wish you ladies have a better outcome than me for your cycle. Big hugs.  

Pucca x


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Pucca I’m 6dp5dt. I’m still trying to be positive and hope it could show up in a couple of days.
I’m really sorry to hear your news. It really does destroy your heart doesn’t it. But I have a son and I am so very grateful we have him x


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## Pucca2018 (Oct 22, 2018)

Sarah13 that's really early hun, I think you must do a test again on OTD. Fingers crossed it's going to be a strong positive for you. Was your son conceived through IVF as well? If so at least it worked once and I hope it will again. 

I feel heartbroken. I'm just so stuck with the fertility issues and feel like it controls my life now. It's impacted my work, my general well being, my intimacy with my husband, etc. Just a real horrid process. I do wonder how people go on for cycle after cycle - it's really tough! This was my first 2ww after over a year of cancelled cycles so this part was a new experience. I don't know how long will take to get to this stage again.

I know I am catastrophising right now. I do want to stick to thinking only about the present but it's a tough pill to swallow. After tomorrow I will just have to pick up the pieces and march onwards.

I really hope it works out for you, let us know x


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi Pucca
Yes I had my son from doing a fet.
I never tested early with him ,I waited for my otd but this time I couldn’t wait. Really wish I had now.
This process is so hard, every step your wishing its ok.i feel very drained. I agree, the women out there who do cycle after cycle are warriors,they are so strong.take care x


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Sarah - 6dp5dt is still v early and may not show up. I think the first response early detect ones aren’t as sensitive as the frer too so that’s worth bearing in mind. I’ve read so many success stories online where women didn’t get their BFP until quite late so I don’t think you’re out just yet.

Pucca - I totally get all those feelings of anger and sadness. I always found it helpful to think about my next steps so I could focus on something in the future. If your clinic offers counselling I would take them up on it and make the most of it - particularly if it’s something you can do with your husband to try and make sense of it all together. Be kind to yourself x

Missl73 - thanks for the info. That makes me feel better about my progesterone level. This is the first cycle where they’ve checked it so I have nothing to compare it to which doesn’t help.

Hope everyone else doing ok x

AFM - 2dp5dt and over analysing ever tiny twinge! Trying to think positively and eat healthily. Not much else I can do I suppose!


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Thanks pippoty trying to stay positive xx


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## WobblyTulip (Aug 12, 2015)

Hi ladies! Hope you’re all ok today.
I’m just waiting for my beta HCG result this afternoon. I am 9dp5dt today. This is my 6th IVf.

Pucca - so sorry it’s looking like a chemical for you. Do you have any more embryos to transfer?

Sarah - don’t assume you’re out until you actually are. It’s a bit early to be testing even with an early response one. Try again at 9dp5dt?

Pippity Poppity - progesterone serum levels are an interesting one. For a natural pregnancy >30 is fine. For an IVF one, many ROs like it to be >70, but that’s also if you have raised NK cells and in particular CD19 which indicates anti-progesterone antibodies. So if you have no known immune issues then 45 should be fone

Missl73 - so sorry you have a cancelled cycle. Best to get the lining right though. I’m with FGA for immune issues and they see lots of ladies with difficulty getting lining thick. They usually add viagra, a neupogen wash and clexane to your protocol. Might be worth getting a second opinion before you cycle again.

Will update later when I have a beta result... eek


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Thanks wobbly. Good luck for your results🤞X


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## WobblyTulip (Aug 12, 2015)

Just had the call.... BFP!! 
Beta looking good at 151.4  so next beta on Friday


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Wow congratulations xx


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Wobblytulip - amazing news!! Congrats! Best of luck for the next beta on Friday. Thanks for the info on progesterone. As far as I know I don’t have any immune issues as never been tested but am being treated empirically for immune issues with prednisolone and aspirin.


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

PippityPoppity - I hope you are doing OK and still thinking positively!!

WobblyTulip - Congratulations on your BFP!!  That's a great hCG result for 9DP5DT!  Good luck for the next one!

Pucca2018 - I'm really sorry to read about your results.  This must be so very difficult after all of your cancelled cycles.  It's so hard especially when there is an inconclusive result at first, it's a real emotional rollercoaster.  Thinking of you xx

sarah13 - I'm sorry to hear that your 6DP5DT test wasn't positive.  However, it is really early and a friend of mine didn't get her BFP until 8DP5DT.  Someone on one of these threads a few months back didn't get her BFP on a FRER until about 10DP5DT and went on to have a successful first scan.  You just never know until OTD and sometimes it can be later.  I know it's hard to stay positive after a negative result but it can and does happen that these can turn positive in a few days.  I never liked the CB Early Detection, they gave me false positives sometimes and were never as sensitive as FRER for me.  Lower back ache and a bad taste in your mouth sound like good signs to me.

missl73 - I have replied on the other thread.  So sorry about your scan.

I hope everyone else is doing OK?


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## Jojonz (Jun 10, 2014)

HI team!

Wobbly - woop woop congrats - thats awesome! Can you please tell me what the immune protocol is?

pippity poppity - congrats on being PUPO! such a lovely time I think - specially early on when it's easy to be positive. Will be sending lots of positive vibes your way. 


Sarah - such a tough time. I had exactly the same thing on my july cycle - I really really hope yours turns positive. I did find lots of stories of people who didn't get a BFP till later in the game so you are not out yet... fingers crossed x

pucca - I"m so sorry to hear. That limbo land is so blimmen tough and I know exactly what you mean - you have to act like you are pregnant, and be so very positive about the whole thing and it is such a let down to get a low beta or a BFN. Good on you for feeling all those emotions - it's horrible but I do think it's important to let them out and feel angry or sad or whatever it is you are feeling.... sending hugs

Missl - sorry you've had that outcome with your lining. Sometimes it feels like a game of chance doesn't it but it's so disappointing. Good on you for focusing on the next steps. 

hope everyone else is doing well x


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## WobblyTulip (Aug 12, 2015)

Hello!

Thanks for all the congrats. Cautiously optimistic but also anxious about 2nd beta and next few weeks. This is the 4th time I’ve made it this far and we only had one live birth before on lots of immune drugs. My other losses were all 7-9 weeks after hb seen on scan.

Jojonz - I have multiple and complex immune issues which cause my body to fight any new pregnancy so am on a cocktail of 13 tablets and 2-4 injections a day. Drugs include: clexane, prograf (used normally to prevent organ rejection for ppl who had a transplant), neupogen (a cancer drug), IVIG drips, progynova, prontogest, cyclogest, levothyroxine, methylfactors, multivitamin, fish oil, d3, calcium magnesium citrate....  expecting aspirin to be added to the mix on Friday if beta is ok. If you have immune issues you need testing first and then to get a protocol designed for your issues.

Shootingstar - Thanks for the encouragement. I guess with betas you have to start somewhere and it’s doubling time that is the most important factor right now. How many betas did you have? Really hoping this is your cycle - looks like we’ve both been through a lot of cycles! Have you had immune testing too?

Hope everyone else is ok x


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## Pucca2018 (Oct 22, 2018)

WobblyTulip - congratulations on your good news! I really hope the numbers continue to rise and you have a successful outcome. Keep positive, you're a step closer to your end goal. Thanks for your kind words. I do have 2 more frosties left but I am unsure if I should go for a fresh cycle given that I'll be 34 this year so try to get the eggs at this age than later. But then I feel bad for the existing frosties, it's a difficult one.

PippityPoppity - Thanks for the advice of looking towards the future. I spent most of my afternoon yesterday looking for my next clinic! It was a bit of crazy mad women searching, but helped to keep me distracted and look forward to the next one. I am currently with NHS-funded Wolfson Fertility Clinic at Hammersmith Hospital but I want to move to another. I am thinking of Lister, Care or FGA. Who are you with currently? Any recommendations? I also saw bundle packages with Lister and Care - are these cost effective?

Shootingstar - Thank you for the support. I do feel so distraught by this, especially as it just seems to be never ending for me. But then I know other women go through so much more, makes me feel guilty to feel like this too. I just feel so let down at the moment. Life is tough eh?! How are you getting on? 

Jojonz - Thank you for the support. I am just going through the motions at the moment. I am the kind of person who let's it all out rather than close to my heart. But that also makes me feel so outwardly vulnerable, it's a tough one.

AFM - I have my blood test this morning. I'm really not looking forward to this. I just feel like I'm watching myself go through these acts only to know it's futile. I am feeling really negative today.  I just did my injection, pessaries and tablet and boy did that hurt like hell?! I am feeling gut-wrenching pain. It felt so wrong and the ritual of it all really hurts. I don't think husbands can truly understand that. My hubby is supportive but he's one to try to keep distracted, think ahead and move on. On the other hand, I am a very emotional and sensitive person and I feel so much. I am not at work today as I feel like I need the day to just mourn. It also feels a little stupid to me as I'm mourning a chemical pregnancy. I hate that term. It makes it seem so medical and removes all emotions. I know it wasn't with me for long but I really felt pregnant and bonded/protected it for 2 weeks. Then I got the faint positive and at that moment I was a mother-to-be and then poof! All gone. 

I'm sorry I post so much misery here but I just need to get it out. I was walking around my empty house like a crazy woman just crying and feeling sorry for myself. I know I will overcome this but in same ways I also want to sit with this sadness for a while. It can't just be nothing. It will always be something so meaningful to me. This was the closest I came to being pregnant. I hope it will happen again. My dad passed away last year and this is just bringing up so much. Life is tough sometimes. Anyways off to my appointment and then I'll see my friend this evening. Hubby on business travel for a few days so I got my girls lined up. 

You ladies have been so helpful, thank you. I really wish your treatments work and give you beautiful bundles of joy! 

Pucca x


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Pucca - don’t feel stupid for mourning a chemical pregnancy. I do think it’s really important to grieve the loss of any failed cycle - whether that’s a miscarriage, chemical pregnancy or just a BFN. Ivf is such an emotional rollercoaster and please know that what you are feeling is normal and just give yourself time to feel whatever you need to. That’s great that you’ve got your friends on hand to support you at this time, especially with your husband away. Have you had the blood test yet? Thinking of you x

Wobblytulip- I know from personal experience how awful this part is waiting for viability scan especially after previous losss. I really hope your next beta gives you some reassurance and you can enjoy this part of your pregnancy. 

Jojonz- thanks for the positivity  I’m trying to stay relaxed but not always easy (see update below!). Hope you are doing ok.

Sarah - have you done any more tests or are you going to wait a few days?

Shootingstar - I stocked up on homebargains tests last night so they’re in the house... I said I wouldn’t do this and have even hidden them from DP as I promised I wouldn’t test early but I might do.... hope you’re doing ok. Not long now until your scan x

AFM - 3dp5dt and considering testing tomorrow. I just want to know. I have had a really stressful two days at work and panicking that stress will have affected implantation. I ended up having a bit of a heated argument with a colleague over a project we are working on and even though I was saying to myself to keep calm I got so worked up and could feel my blood boiling as I was trying to get my point across. I had to take myself off to the loo to have a cry and calm down. Felt awful as it was really unprofessional of me as well as potentially harmful to the embryo. Feel very deflated now. Plus I was in a meeting room yesterday for 2 hours with a woman with the strongest perfume! I know that embryos don’t like strong smells and I was getting so worked up that being in there could affect my chances. So as you can see I’m driving myself mad


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## Pucca2018 (Oct 22, 2018)

PippityPoppity - Thank you   Yes you're right, it is valid and I have to allow myself to feel this. I think I made the right decision to stay home and mourn my loss today. It helps to process the thoughts and feelings. I do feel great loss.  I got the call. They confirmed a chemical pregnancy/early miscarriage. I just hate the chem preg term. The nurse was trying to comfort me and tell me the positive side of this - that I could get pregnant. All I could think of was that I wanted this baby and lost it. I am dreading the first period.   Anyways enough about me. I don't think you're going crazy - think about all the hormones being pumped in you - that's what's crazy! I know you are really tempted to test and want to protect yourself but maybe 3dp5dt is too early? Could you maybe wait till day 8? That might be a more timeframe and give a more honest picture. Please don't feel guilty that you'll hurt your embryos due to stress. It's good you took yourself out of that situation to calm down. You're doing the best you can. 

I won't be checking the thread as often now but will peek in every now and then. Thanks so much all for supporting me through this cycle. I hope everyone else is doing well and wish you all the very best.

Pucca x


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi pippoty. Yes iv tested again and still bfn.if I could give you any advise it would be to not start testing early. Everyday you test and it’s bfn it’s just heartbreaking. Really wish I would have waited . But it’s totally your call.wishing you all the best, really hope you get your bfp xx


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

sarah13 - Sorry to hear the test is still not positive.  Thinking of you.  There is still time xx

Pucca2018 - Your feelings are completely valid.  A loss is a loss regardless of the stage and it does take time to process your feelings.  Take as much time as you need to work through it.  So sorry to hear you had this confirmed today.  Wishing you all the very best for your next steps xx

PippityPoppity - Ah Home Bargains tests, they are great.  But I have to say a word of caution in that I was only ever glad I tested early when I got a lasting BFP.  If I got a BFN or had a chemical it was the worst emotional rollercoaster ever and one I wished I'd avoided.  Testing together with DP and finding a BFP would be the most amazing experience I reckon?  I'm a solo Mum so I'm kind of on my own with this so there is nobody else to share the experience with.  There is nobody there to encourage me to wait either!  But wishing you all the best whichever way you decide to go!  I was testing positive on 3DP5DT but I think it was due to the trigger.  It only really darkened from 4DP5DT and 5DP5DT (more so).  Please don't add more stress to yourself by worrying if stress will impact implantation, or that perfume will affect anything this far after transfer.  Try to remain as calm as possible in the face of stress around you as hard as that is sometimes! xx

WobblyTulip - I'm sorry to hear about your previous losses.  Really glad to hear you are being treated for the issues though.  The doubling definitely is the most important factor!  I have never had immunes testing but I have just found out that my progesterone level is low after ovulation.  I'm receiving progesterone injections this time, along with Cyclogest.  I had never had my progesterone testing with this clinic previously and have been repeatedly advised that my progesterone level is fine if I'm ovulating.  Hopefully this is the one, and for you too!

Jojonz - I hope you are doing OK?


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Wow shootingstar just want to say i think your very brave and strong doing this alone xx


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## WobblyTulip (Aug 12, 2015)

Just a very quick check in to update you all. Have been up since 4am as had to go to London for my beta and my consultant review. Just home and knackered now!

Anyway, good news - beta went from 151 to 303 in 47 hrs so 104% in 48hr. As a result I was given an ivig drip as soon as results were in. This should afford baby some protection for next 4 weeks. Today am 11dp5dt.

Will read all your updates and respond tomorrow - just need to sleep now!


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

WobblyTulip - This is great news about your beta results, congratulations!!

sarah13 - Thank you so much for your kind words xx  How are you doing today?

How is everyone else doing?  Sending positive wishes to all xx


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Wobbly fab news. Congratulations x

Shootingstar I’m ok thanks. Tested again today and still bfn. Think I’m getting my head around it now though x


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Morning girls, hope everyone doing ok.

Wobblytulip- amazing news about your beta results, huge congratulations! When will your first scan be?

Sarah - sorry you’re still getting bfn. When is OTD for you? Do you have any Frosties left?

Shootingstar- thank you for your kind words, I have been feeling less anxious the past couple of days and have decided not to test for now. How are you doing? Do you have any symptoms? 

Pucca - hugs to you, hope you are being kind to yourself x

Afm- 5dp5dt and I still haven’t tested which is a record for me! We are going to a wedding today which should take my mind of things hopefully! Luckily we don’t really know too many people there as it’s an old colleague of DP’s so not drinking shouldn’t be too much of a talking point!


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## WobblyTulip (Aug 12, 2015)

Morning!

Sarah - so sorry it’s still BFN - when is OTD? Thinking of you as you come to terms with this

Pippity Poppity - I did my first poas at 6dp5dt and it was a real squinter! Well done for waiting - see if you can hold out to 8 or 9dpt

Pucca - thinking of you as you come to terms with and grieve this cycle. Praying for success next time for you.

Shooting Star - will you have more betas or is it waiting for a scan now?

AFM doing ok today. My consultant in London has asked me to get an early scan at 6.5 weeks. Irony here is that my OTD for Care is not until tomorrow and they don’t scan until 8+ weeks. So even though I have a positive beta, they still want me to poas and call on Monday before they will consider booking me for a scan there! It’s amazing how different drs want different things! Loaded up with another 20 days of immune drugs yesterday too, so that should take me up to first viability scan at 6+5 which I’ll need to book privately I guess...


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## Pucca2018 (Oct 22, 2018)

Hi ladies, 

I hope you're all doing well.

Wobblytulip - congratulations on your good news! I hope the scan goes well for you and makes you feel more reassured. Thank you for your kind words. 

PippityPoppity - thank you I'm coping ok,  highs and lows every day.  Well done you for not testing early. Long may it last! I have my fingers crossed for you. 

Shootingstar & Sarah, I hope you are both doing well. 

AFM - Its been a few difficult days. Grief is tough but you find a way. I guess we have no other choice. I think if it was a straight cut negative I would've dealt with it better. But knowing it work and lost the baby feels cruel. But that is life! 

I wanted to ask about these symptoms I am having and whether this is normal. Today is 16dp5dt and I stopped all medications on Friday,  14dp4dt. Yesterday evening I was feeling very dizzy and a bit light headed when standing. It's hard to describe but I feel a little wobbly and unbalanced.  I was wondering if any of you ladies who have had a bfn after a FET have experienced this in the past? Is this a withdrawal from going cold turkey on the IVF medications? 

Thanks x


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## WobblyTulip (Aug 12, 2015)

Hi!

Pucca - yes it’s normal to feel a bit funny coming off the meds. You’ll probably feel weird until you’ve had your period to reset things.

How’s everyone else doing?

So today was OTD for me. I woke shortly around 5am busting for the loo and as it has to be FMU, it was time. So did the oee into the pot and got the Care pg test out which is a funny little cassette with a dropper. Put the drops in and waited. On other pg tests the line is almost instant now. This one made me panic. No line until 2+ minutes. And that’s knowing I had a strong beta HCG on Friday. Had a heart attack. When it did appear finally it was not that dark a line either. So did one of my home tests to check and that was nice and dark from 1min in. I can’t believe with how much we pay for treatment what a crappy test they have us use. Anyway rant over. I am so done with peeing on sticks.


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

WobblyTulip - Great news about your official BFP!  Congratulations.  There is no excuse for giving you a rubbish test to use to test with, especially as you say with the amount of money we pay.  Glad you put your mind at rest with your home test.  I won't have any more betas now as my scan is in 9 days time.  How about you?

Pucca2018 - Thank you, doing OK here at the moment.  I'm sorry you've had a tough time this cycle.  I am with you, chemicals are a mind bender and I personally would prefer a BFN to a chemical.  Although BFNs are as crushing, a chemical gives you an added bump on the rollercoaster which gives you false hope and feels unnecessarily cruel.  I'm sorry that I can't help with the symptoms you are experiencing.

PippityPoppity - Glad to hear you are feeling less anxious now.  Well done for not testing early!  5DP5DT would also be a record for me.  I hope you enjoyed the wedding!  Good luck for the remainder of your 2WW, when is OTD?

sarah13 - I hope you are doing OK.  When is OTD for you?  I hope that things will turn around for you xx

I hope everyone else is doing OK.  I'm going to move off this board now but I will obviously keep reading to see how everyone is doing.  Sending lots of positive wishes to everyone xx


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi shootingstar good luck with your scan wish you a happy healthy pregnancy. My otd is 14th but still bfn so I’m out.test would have shown something by now. Xx


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Shootingstar- all the best for your pregnancy!

Pucca - definitely normal. in the past I’ve had to wait for my period for the medication side effects to go.

Sarah - so sorry it’s still bfn for you. Be kind to yourself.

Wobblytulip- congratulations on your official BFP! Crazy that your clinic give you such a cheap test!

Afm - today is - 7dp5dt and I tested this morning using FMU both with home bargains test and FRER... bfn. Absolutely gutted.


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Pippoty sorry to hear that, maybe it will change x


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## WobblyTulip (Aug 12, 2015)

Pippity - so sorry to hear that. It’s still quite early and frozen embryos can take time to get going. When is OTD? Can you wait a couple of days and retest?


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

Thank you Sarah and wobblytulip. I won’t test again now until OTD but not holding out much hope. 

Not sure if my clinic will want to wait a bit or I’ll be able to just go again when AF arrives? I’ve never had a BFN before - my failed cycles have all been miscarriages so I’m shocked that this hasn’t even implanted or tried to implant.

Edit to add - my OTD is on Saturday x


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Pippoty I’m the same. Iv never had a negative before so I’m also shocked it hasn’t implanted x


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

How are you feeling about OTD tomorrow Sarah? I have googled so much about about bfn going onto be BFP on OTD I feel like I’ve read every internet thread ever and although uncommon it does happen - hope this is the case for both of us. Thinking of you x

I’m just counting down the days until OTD so I can ring my clinic and stop the medication and make a plan for what to do next.


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi pippoty.iv been the same as you with googling. So today was bfn which I new. So will call clinic and stop meds. When is your otd pippoty. Really hoping it changes for you.xx


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

So sorry Sarah. My OTD is Saturday. 

Have you thought about what you will do next? Do you have any more Frosties left? Thinking of you today, it’s tough x


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi pippoty. We have one more frosty left. Maybe try again in January. We have to save our pennies up.really hope it turns around for you.have you tested again or are you going to wait till otd now? X


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Phoned clinic they want me to carry on with meds and test Friday.feels really pointless but I will do it x


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## PippityPoppity (Jun 13, 2015)

How frustrating that you have to continue meds - I was going to say at least one positive would be stopping the medication. I wonder if my clinic will make me do the same x


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

What clinic are you with pippoty? X


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## shootingstar777 (Nov 6, 2016)

sarah13 - Really sorry to read about your result.  Wishing you luck for your next steps xx

PippityPoppity - I hope things change for you by tomorrow's OTD.  Everything crossed xx


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## sarah13 (Oct 16, 2013)

Thanks shootingstar it just wasn’t meant to be this time. How are you ? X


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## Maeve88Troy (Aug 9, 2019)

Hi Jupiter!

My advice for you is just to remain positive and claim that you will be successful this time around. Law of attraction right? where are you getting your IVF treatment?


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## Jupiter 96 (Aug 12, 2016)

Thank you Maeve.

So far so good.

The biopsy was all clear, then AF arrived a few days later and then we were back into a cycle!

Transfer is hopefully next week all being well.


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## Maeve88Troy (Aug 9, 2019)

Jupiter 96, good luck on your new cycle.

Sarah 13, sorry to hear your news, but yes you have to move on and indeed you are very lucky to have the emby waiting.

PippityPoppity my thoughts are with you, how did things go?


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## Jupiter 96 (Aug 12, 2016)

Thank you Maeve.

I have just started the 2WW....

How did your cycle pan out?


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## Maeve88Troy (Aug 9, 2019)

Jupiter 96 I had my BFP last July.  I just like to give some words of encouragement to you ladies.  Congrats on your transfer!  It's good that you are now on your TWW.  Praying for you!


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