# We Did our Best Girls!!!!



## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi Girls
Making a decision to give up treatment or not to contemplate having treatment is the biggest dilemma that alot of us have had to face. The feelings of losing any form of hope of having a family, has become a distant dream. We make the decision that we cannot go on anymore, but at times there are feelings of 'why me' Why did this have to happen to us..
When I scan this website, i realise after reading alot of the posts that my hubby and i tried everything more or less in our capacity to make this happen for us both...
I am sure you can relate to alot of things....timed sex, eating the correct foods, no drinking. Absolutely feeling miserable each month. Watching others infront of you having their first, second or third child and the list goes on....
But i think when i reflect back on all of this, i can find some comfort and that is 'We Must not Forget that we tried Harder than most people to become a mother...This gives me some sense of relief in my mind and is helping me to move on, because i know that i did everything i could possible. When i look back it made me feel so flipping miserable, but it was all part of my life journey. The thing is i must not forget is we did our best and thats one thing i will hold dear now and in the future. I also hope that you can find it in yourselves to also see this in your own lives...its hard enough without feeling like we couldn't make it, but we did everything in our power to try and make it....
Does this makes sense? 
love astridxxx


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## NixNoo (Aug 19, 2005)

Astrid you speak such wise words as always.  And yes it made sense.  It's nice to be reminded in such a positive way of how hard we tried every which way we can of having a family.

Sometimes I get the erg to scream at the top of my lungs what we've been through instead of keeping it all a secret from the world (apart from close family and friends).  Sometimes I feel it would be easier to tell people but I rarely do incase I regret it afterwards.

I look back and remember those awful feelings and it makes me feel sick at the thought of the pain and anguish but I have to say, we are content on our own now and having soul search so much it's a relief to be here.

I must get that book everyone says about.

Nix


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Astrid, you are making sense,

Like you, I am now slowly starting to come round to the idea of accepting "no more treatment."  This is a place I NEVER, in the past 8 years, thought I would be.  I never felt I would EVER be able to accept this.  I am totally amamzed that I am here ....

People often ask, "how do you know it's time?" or "How do you begin to accept it?".  I don't think this is something, we or the person asking the question can answer.  For me, I think, if you have to ask that question in the first place, then you are definitely not ready to "give up" (for want of a better expression) or "accept" the situation.  Like me, I think it must hit you when you least expect it and when it does, it comes as a total but unexpected surprise and relief, like you say.  for me, it came about after reading books, which I didn't anticipate having such a huge impact on me.

I think you are right in that part of the healing process, it is crucial to look back and feel satisfied that we all tried our best.  No regrets.

I would like to ask those lovely ladies out there who have either chosen not to go for more treatment, or, finally accepted the situation with some "peace", did you arrive in this place unexpectedly and did it come as a bit of a shock, albeit a nice one in a strange way?

Love to all,
gill x


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Hi ladies, another interesting thread!

In answer to your question Gill, I think I surprised myself by realising after the last IVF last year that it really was THE last treatment ever. I just knew it felt the right thing to do at the time, and the peace that I have felt since walking away from the whole treatment shebang has made me a much more calmer, quietly confident and happier person within myself.

I don't know if this was because cynical me seen my treatment as a lucrative business for my clinic, or emotional me simply did not want to go through any more 'stuff' to do with having a child. I can definitely say with enthusiasm and positivity that this was the right choice for me, and I am very glad to be off that rollercoaster after goodness knows how many years of cr*p!

I feel I must add that I am very glad I was able to have the opportunity to be able to do IVF though because it gave me hope where there was none before, and for that tiny glimpse of hope it was worth its weight in gold. I hope that makes sense!

Gill, I am so happy for you that you feel you are turning a corner with everything. You're such a lovely lady, and I wish you so much happiness for the future, whatever it may bring. Good for you for getting to the place you are now at, I know it hasn't been an easy journey for you.

Love to all, you wonderful, inspiring, delightful lovelies!
Emcee x


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## ruby k (Jun 2, 2004)

Hi girls  

Yes, Astrid this does make a lot of sense - but for me - I am still in a total fog about what to do for the best - and I seem to question whether to carry on with tx on a daily (nay hourly!) basis. I am so happy to read what you and the others describe as a 'calm' feeling about it all - I really aspire to feel that - tell me how!!! I often have times where I am SO sure that I want to stop tx, and then something will happen and that feeling will be shaken...

Gill, I don't know if I would have the sort of realisation that you felt/feel....I kind of think (and worry) I will never get over it ...? (I know its too simplistic to say one can get 'over' something like this, but I can't articulate it any better - i know its more complex than this)... What I hope is that one day the hurt will become part of my 'journey' (as you say Astrid), and that it will somehow turn out to be a positive thing in my life, that I can gain from in some way. Does that make sense? I think its the deeper understanding of life thing again - I always thought I was pretty 'in touch' with things, but recently I've been 'noticing' things a lot more - in every aspect of my life from the fundamental to the mundane - and I do think thats because I have plunged the depths as it were...my senses are up! What I hope is that because I/we have been in such a dark place over all of this, for so long, i/we can also experience real joy too. Actually this already does happen sometimes  .

So I just don't know really....we too have tried so many things, icsi, 4xdiui, acupuncture, reflexology etc, so much alternative stuff, diet, no booze, the moon spell, wearing orange, standing on one leg on a mountain at midnight (made that one up) etc etc. I spose I worry that I should carry on with tx because I havent done that much compared to other people. ? I just don't know.

So in conclusion, I just don't know!!!! I wish I did. We do have an nhs tx opportunity coming up, which I think is sending me into overdrive about making a 'decision'. But I am ever hopeful of finding some peace, as some of you have described - I'm so glad about that. 

Love to all xxxxxx


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi Ruby and Girls
I can totally see where you are coming from Ruby.....and making a decision just does not just happen, as much as we wrestle with all the crap over the years...
I think it is mentally stored somewhere in our minds and then each knock back, it then slowly starts to come to some sort of realisation..this ain't looking to good for us and maybe its time...
Everyone is different and we all make decisions based on our own experiences and heart ache...I think the dark days are something that i will never forget and i can totally empathise with you..We also put so much pressure on ourselves to make that decision.....which is what
How can we make the decision of giving up our hopes and dreams? not very easy as you say Ruby...
I am not sure if others have felt the same way, i just knew that i couldn't go through anymore treatment, it seemed as if i was banging my head against the wall.... ...
I think thats the relief, knowing that we couldn't have done anymore and we did do our best....
I think giving time for ourselves in that mourning period brings on other avenues of wanting to have a child i.e donor, surrogacy or maybe adoption. It just doesn't stop there when we finish treatment, or say no to treatment. Its about dealing with the issues and realisation that our own natural child will not materialise...
I feel that piece of mind that we did everything possible. However, it does get to me when i see the options of going for donor eggs or maybe adoption....that yearning is still there, but it feels different when i discuss it with my hubby, because i feel more at peace with myself...
What i think i am trying to say Ruby, i think it takes time and it only happens when we are sort of ready and i think you know deep down.....you can only give up when you are both ready, or you may regret things....i think thats what i am trying to say when i did everything possible and thats this is where i do find some comfort....
I hope i don't sound as if i am preaching, because my journey is so different to everyone elses...
Stay in there gal, its not easy....
Lots of love astridxx

p.s i did something strange once, i cracked a couple of eggs, put them on a plate and left it outside under a full moon.......thats how desperate i was ....sorry i have to laugh now,.....but if it had worked my faith in the spirits would have been heightened.....atleast we tried!!!!
I have also been donated a turky baster and a whole batch of naughty films...my hubby said that he didn't feel comfortable conceiving over a german blue film....ha ha    .ps i would have done anything to standing on my head....eating brusssle sprouts all day.....spending the day washing dirty underwear..


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## Hippy (Aug 2, 2005)

Astrid - thank you so much for starting this post   it is such a fundamental issue and one that can so badly haunt involuntarily childless couples  - myself being sadly included in that group. The lovely words you said are words that I so wish fertility clinics would have the courage to say to couples when tx fails after multiple years/attempts and they leave the IF system - because when my Dh and I reached our end and left the clinic, the staff just couldn't really cope with letting us go! They just couldn't comprehend how having stuck in there for so long we were now as they saw it accepting defeat which is something they themselves don't handle very well. Despite having being treated at this clinic on their donor sperm programme (as Dh has zero count) one nurse even had the stupidity to say to my Dh when he returned our redunant sharps box  "Well all I can say is just keep trying naturally and have fun practising" Admitally she did then realise the huge error she had made in telling a totally sterile man to keep trying (!!!!!!  ) and went mega red!! Thankfully my DH saw the funny side of this impossibility, but it did sum up how the medical IF professionals don't always help patients in validating that sometimes it just isn't ever going to happen and that it is perfectly ok to actually not go on with tx forever.  

To have a clinic brave enough to discuss the very real more negative sides to IF i.e that it doesn't always happen even with persistance and medical intervention could be so helpful. It might enable more couples to be spared earlier from being put through very stressful and financially crippling countless tx,fuelled on by the sometimes false hopes of clinic medics. It might also help those couples be released a bit more from that awful secondary pressure of, if they stop, the clinic making them feel even worse for not having kept going. For me as deeply painful as it was I just had to listen to my body as at the end of the day this was the only place the miracle could happen and as it wasn't ever responding properly I had to block out the unhelpful pressure of my IF clinic always just wanting to get their success figures whatever the costs to the patient, and believe in my own bodies signals.  


For me the end came when Dh and I could no longer deny that since we started our IF tx never once in a whole three years of back to back tx, had we had never made it successfully to the artifical insemination and  2ww stage - not once had we even been able to have a to do preg test in three years! When the  realisation came that every tx either of us had been put on ( Dh went on unsuccessful HCG injections solidly for two years with no impact at all), our bodies failed to respond I knew we had to face the horrible truth in our hearts that  this was our bodies giving us significant signs it was the end of the road for us. As traumatic as it was accepting nothing had ever managed to progress correctly, we knew our own bodies better than any medics and we knew in our hearts they were painfully trying to tell us something. 

Amazingly from the moment of having to walk away from our dream, we have never once battled with the "what if we had just tried one more tx" (the clinic were willing to try an experimental tx on me foir  my 'medical mystery' egg prob as they called it) as I can't explain why, but we both just knew my body wasn't going to perform whatever the concoction they dreamt up. The big ongoing issue however, and one I believe will always be there but hopefully lessen a bit in time, is just getting my head round the un quibble fact I won't be a natural mum. However like Astrid when the pain of this fact is unbearable I take some comfort in knowing DH and I gave our tx everything and more, and at least that is one area I can have peace in and a deep sense of pride that it took an even deeper level of courage and guts to not just walk the IF path, but to be one of those minority who sadly have to come out the other end without a result. There should never ever be a sense of shame in that but a deep, deep acknowledgement of just how much strength as a person that requires.  I send the hugest of hugs to each one of you in this situation and only we can know how imensely painful that is, but how deeply strong as people we really must be deep down, to have walked this path and still be walking forwards today abeit in a different direction from that hoped. 

Biggest of hugs
Hippy
xxxxxxxx

Ps - apologies re any spelling errors my computer won't let me ue the spell check today for some strange reason!?


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## Suzie (Jan 22, 2004)

Just sending you all some   ladies 

love to all
suzie xx


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hello Hippy
I have just read your posting and it brought a lump to my throat. The honesty and heartfelt words really touched me. I think you captured everything that i would like to have said and i can relate to many issues that you raised. .
When you mentioned about clinics, i had quite the opposite response to yourselves....but nonetheless i felt that we were not managed appropriately. The same as you the 'end of the road' was not approached very easily, lacking the appropriate skills. I felt that the consultant wanted us to leave, he seemed more uncomfortable about things than we were. Infact the only relief from his corner, was that we made the decision ourselves and that made it easier for him to deal with it.
The most important thing is that no matter what intervention that we may have all had. We are all individuals and we have to see things to the end in our own unique way...
Hope is a fantasic thing, but its also frightening when the hope starts to fade...there isn't any book to help you through this and its like finding your way through a dark tunnel. Its an unfair way of dealing with our emotions and that we have to go through a journey with no end result.. the only peace of mind we get from it, is knowing we did get to a decision based on years of heartache...
Don't we deserve some peace at the end of it and i so hope we find it and you say walking down a different path albeit the one we never chose...
love astridxx


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## ruby k (Jun 2, 2004)

hi everyone
this is such a good thread.

Hippy   I remember you from the donor thread, and I remember what you went through...

I really agree with the clinic thing - I get the feeling that ours want us to continue and continue. I guess for them its about 'results' isn't it..? I don't know. Certainly when I raised not carrying on after our first round of tx, they looked a bit baffled and urged us to carry on - they couldn't seem to see that 'accepting it' could be an option. Your are so right to feel pride and courage at not continuing - its very true what you say.

Astrid, thank you for your kind words of wisdom. Yes I agree, making the decision is something which will take time - I really hope that I will 'know' what I want to do one of these days ....and be able to stick with it. I know this is so not a black and white thing, and whatever the decision there will be wobbly days...I just don't want my life to be eaten up by this issue forever - and at the moment thats all I can see...I agree that the 'hope' is sometimes a really difficult thing to live with.

Love to all xxxxx


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## Hippy (Aug 2, 2005)

Hi Ruby - so sorry to hear you are still in that very, very, very hard place of turmoil and just wanted to send you a monster sized   my lovely friend. 
Love
Hippy
xxxx

Big hugs to all x


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Hi darling ladies

There have been so many valid points here, and your post Hippy had me nodding my head in agreement with everything that you said. I hope no-one minds me chipping in again with some thoughts of my own?

It seems apparent that clinics do not know how to deal with people deciding not to pursue further treatment - once again cynical me says its because its a HUGE money making thing - but would I be so cynical if I had my own babe at this stage? Probably not! I know when we went back after our last tx we made it quite plain that we would not be interested in any further treatments. Then 2 months down the line we had a letter from the cons asking us to consider ICSI - hello? Didn't they want to hear what we had said?  

Another thought has sprung to mind here, if any of us were to pursue adoption or fostering, it would never ever take away the pain of not being able to have your own child. What, indeed, could take away that pain and longing? Nothing, I believe! I think this is something that is overlooked, the pain and the battles we have all been through to try and attain the unobtainable. People only ever see the end result don't they, they never think of the hidden heartaches that we carry, and what a lonely road it can be to tread.

Ruby, I too am sorry that you are struggling with everything, it really can feel like a lead weight around you at times like this. Sending you my love & support too as you wade through everything.

Love to all
Emcee x


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## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

Astrid, thanks so much for starting this thread. 

Hippy, I sent you a message ysterday but your post was beautiful and so wise, I just had to respond. You are absolutely right that clinics should support couples in their decision to stop, and that they should be honest with them about their chances.

We said for a long time that the pain of going through tx was becoming unbearable but the implications of stopping were too big, and we needed someone else to make our decision for us about whether to give up or not. In the event thats what happened, my consultant sat us down and told us in his opninion there was nothing more that can be done, except use donor material on both male and female sides, or adopt. He was very kind and compassionate, and I feel immensely grateful to him for being so honest with us...he also emphasised that in his opinion we had done everything and tried everything we possibly could and should have no regrets. I was hugely grateful to him for that.

However, I still have days of torturing myself that he was wrong or misguided, that maybe there is another chance out there for us with another clinic. This is complete denial really, as DH has almost no sperm whatsoever (6 at last SSR), and my follies never matured in time and my eggs tuned out to be poor. And I know that in my heart I have no more resources left to deal with more tx. 
This thread has reminded me of what he said, that we should have no regrets, and maybe eventually I can find peace in knowing we did all we could.

When I feel low I really resent what tx has done to me, physically and emotionally, but this thread has also reminded me it was for a reason, because we gave it our best.

Hippy, there was so much you said that struck a chord with me, but this especially touched me:



Hippy said:


> I can't explain why, but we both just knew my body wasn't going to perform whatever the concoction they dreamt up. The big ongoing issue however, and one I believe will always be there but hopefully lessen a bit in time, is just getting my head round the un quibble fact I won't be a natural mum. However like Astrid when the pain of this fact is unbearable I take some comfort in knowing DH and I gave our tx everything and more, and at least that is one area I can have peace in and a deep sense of pride that it took an even deeper level of courage and guts to not just walk the IF path, but to be one of those minority who sadly have to come out the other end without a result. There should never ever be a sense of shame in that but a deep, deep acknowledgement of just how much strength as a person that requires.


Thanks so much girls,

Ermey
xxx


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## pink panther (May 4, 2005)

What can I say that hasn't been said already? What beautiful words. These feelings of acceptance (or near acceptance) slowly creep up on you. Like many of you, I never ever thought I'd be at a stage in my life when I was questioning whether I wanted tx or not and although I admire those who have many, many tx, it's just not for me. We've done as much as we can without it destroying our relationship, and even if we do have one more tx, that's exactly what it will be. 
Although, of course, I realise the implications of having children, 'The book' has made me think alot deeper about the sacrifices you make as a parent in so many ways and sometimes I find myself wondering if I want that anymore. I'm sure that if we had fallen preg naturally our marriage would have suffered and instead we are stronger than ever.
The words that you all have written are so wise, it does alot of good for the soul to turn these feelings of sadness around and think instead of how strong it has made us in so many ways. 
xxxx


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## ruby k (Jun 2, 2004)

Hi everyone
just wanted to say this thread has been so helpful to me (as all the threads are) - and I will refer back to it and reflect on it often I'm sure. Also wanted to say thank you  to everyone who has offered their support to me in my 'indecision' - i really do appreciate it very much indeed... 

PinkP I totally agree that its so good to turn our negative feelings around and contemplate the positives of what we have been through. For me I think there have been many positives actually - which is surprising given the blackness of it all...I suppose good and bad go hand in hand eh..
love ruby xx[br]: 17/08/06, 21:37oops my thankyou looks a bit weedy - I'll try again!! *THANKYOU!!*
thats better


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi ruby
And thankyou for being there for each and everyone of us...
What decision that you eventually do come to, you know where we are.....especially if you have any other thoughts that you want to express...thats why we are here...
Because it certainly isn't easy dealing with this and as you say in your previous post, that you would never have thought that you would be torn so much in making that decision...
All the best!!
love astridxx


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## Vanilla (Sep 6, 2005)

HI Girls

This is a wonderful thread, there are others that have come to the end of the road! My clinic thread was getting too much as there were so many BFP's and i was a sole BFN amongst 6 BFP's at the beginning of this month and the BFP's kept coming in.....

This last tx i did for closure, I knida knew it was not going to work, was a waste of money etc, not the greatest of attitude, but i was calm throughout cos i thought what will be will be. Sure enough got a BFN. I was so angry rather than upset on that day it happened, that a feeling of  NO MORE   finally swept over me and i still feel it. I used to be desperate to get going on the next tx whatever the cost, but not this time.

Of course DH and i are devastated that we ended up paying money for nothing and our dreams have failed miserably, it also doesn't help that the last of my close girlfriends announced she was 3 months this morning. All 5 pregnant and expecting at the same time between Dec and Feb, not looking forward to those few months and i'll by pass the baby showers! A couple of them got going on having babies because of our ordeal which sticks the knife in a bit deeper.

But 'we did our best girls' and now its returning to normality whatever that might be, forgetting about it, take chinese herbs for my endo and poss natural miracle conception though we are not expecting it and just moving on.

I am so glad that there are others in my shoes.

Vanilla x


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi Vanilla
Thankyou for your posting and your very valid input and words...
Welcome onto the board...
I am very sorry that your last treatment failed and that you are to face a very gruelling few months...and i am sure a very gruelling past as well...You know where we are, because i am sure things are difficult and will get alittle tough for you...
Can i just say that what you said about going for your last treatment, totally reflected how my hubby and i it...As much as it was painful we went through it with the same feelings and attitude...I think you hit the nail on the head, when you also mentioned you would normally go for the next treatment at whatever cost...
Its very sad, but i have to agree with you, we did do what we could 'our best' maynot totally the right word..But i think we need to reflect on how much pain and heartache we went through (still do) but to be left with nothing at the end of it...But that little bit of peace of mind that we can only do so muchand that MUCH was a great deal....
Thankyou Vanilla..stay brave...
love astridxxx


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