# Help me reply to someone whom thinks IVF should be banned!



## mp (Jul 12, 2005)

Hi

On a local forum, I've posted about our experience with infertility and IVF. We've had some great supportive replies, but one irked me a little. I know I shouldn't rise to it, but would appreciate some ideas on a reply.

_"Nobody has a divine right to bear children, there already are plenty in the world today that require loving parents/carers. If you can't have children then live with it and try to help the parentless children that are already alive. I think IVF should be scrapped"_

Cheers

MP


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## AmandaB1971 (Feb 19, 2006)

Hi MP

I can understand you were irked hun, what an ill-informed brainless clown you've had the misfortune to stumble across on your local forum. 

I think if it were me I'd reply saying "Thanks for your comments, I imagine they're the comments of someone with children, without the desire to have any or at the very least with no diagnosed infertility problem.  I truly hope you never have to walk a mile in my shoes, however in the meantime whilst you haven't had that experience perhaps you could keep your ill-informed comments to yourself!"

That'll shut em up!   Don't let them get to you or to your DW 

Axxxx


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## Cheshire Cheese (Apr 19, 2005)

OMG, send them to me i will gladly put them straight.

That would certainly rub me up the wrong way.

I had somebody do a similar thing to me on a another forum, everybody went mad including myself.

This person has no idea, what pain and grief we go through,it can break the best of us.

I would be interested in what forum this is from and what other peoples reaction is on that site   

Regards Cheese


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## MissTC (May 8, 2006)

To be honest MP, I wouldnt even dare try to guide you! For fear of being banned from the site for use of strong language, threatening behaviour, and using a weapon    

Might be best to ignore these small minded, ignorant people who have absolutely no idea what our life is like!!!!!! They are so not worth it!

Love
Tracy
x


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## sho28 (Jan 10, 2006)

Mp,  I might suggest that this persons parents may have wished on realising their child is clearly a moron, that they had been "blessed with the fortune" of not having children and inflicting this person on the rest of us  

what an  !!

Its a shame that people like this are around.


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## Jennifer (Jul 22, 2004)

Hi MP

Can we have a link to this forum please   I think there are people here who would gladly respond to the moron who wrote that rubbish.


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## iccle one (May 9, 2006)

Just as there is no "divine right" inherant in having children - it is also not down to this person how people deal with their infertility. Has this person adopted if they feel so strongly about it? Probably not - these people never usually do as the kinds of people that do adopt have usually been down the IVF route too and are mor undertsanding of our problems.

This person probably also thinks that homosexuality is wrong and would use the "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" argument to back themselves up too. 


Complete


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## mp (Jul 12, 2005)

Hi,

Thanks for the replies. I replied with the following which contains extracts from what you have all suggested.

_"Thanks for your comments, I imagine they're the comments of someone with children, without the desire to have any or at the very least with no diagnosed infertility problem. I truly hope you never have to walk a mile in my shoes and experience what we have, if you did you'd realise how ill-informed your comments really are.

If IVF had not worked, we would have looked at adoption if you must know. In fact I've enquired about this already when IVF failed for us the first time around. Who knows, if we expand our family in the future, adoption might be something we actually do, rather than go through IVF again.

I'd hazard a guess that us just even considering adoption is far more than you will ever be doing for the "parentless children that are already alive"_

The forum in question requires registration to post, but you can find the thread here:
http://www.whyguernsey.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9076&hl=

PS. My posting name on that forum is "Scoob" FYI.

Cheers

MP

_This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.UK or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites_


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## mrsmc (Mar 8, 2005)

Nice one-well done
Oh and   by the way
Sarah x


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

Oh my God, that total twonk! (sorry, made up word but I can't use the one I really want to).

And he's still harping on about it:

_"Yes, we have children, we were lucky but thats life, you can't always have what you want. I was fully prepared for not being able to have children. Nature decided."_

Then he/she/it goes on to liken adoption to sponsoring a child or giving money to a children's charity. You might just as well compare cancer to acne! 

_"Childless couples don't have a 'problem', its just natures way of telling them they can't have what they want. As for comparing this issue with cancer etc., well that's a non starter as not being able to have a baby isnt an illness."_

Really seeing the red mist now. 

C~x

Nice response mp. Very restrained of you.
Methinks this forum might have a sudden surge of new members over the next day or two...

 The opinions expressed here are my own and not those of FF...although I suspect I'm not the only one thinking them.


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

I wouldn't bother wasting the emotion and stress over someone so insensitive and ill informed. 
Try and not let it upset anymore than they have. 

L xx


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## siheilwli (Jan 18, 2006)

I'm glad this person has made me think about how to respond. It's a view I might have held if I hadn't this experience myself. But I hope that I'm now a better, more rounded person able to show compassion and empathise with all sorts of people in pain. So here's my response:

_Who is it that believes we have a divine right to children? Certainly not me - an infertile woman who is about to embark on IVF. But the pain of not being able to have our own is *real*, is *tough*, is *hard * and is a *form of grief*. Would you tell parents that have lost their child due to accident or illness or tragedy that they shouldn't grieve because no one has a divine right to a child, that this too is God or nature's choice?

Nobody has a divine right to happiness either, but we all hope for it. I'm afraid I cannot subscribe to the idea that I just have to get on with it because of some divine notion that God or nature has planned our lives like this. If that were the case, nobody would take an aspirin, nobody would seek medical treatment for anything, they would just "live with it". Why do others believe that they have the "divine right" to judge who should or shouldn't have any sort of medical treatment?

As for plenty of children out there, it's true, and I for one have also considered adoption, only to be told that my local authority is no longer putting white couples on their list! By the way, it's not only childless couples that can adopt if this person feels so strongly about it!

I try not to judge others' pain, and believe everyone, at one time in their life, goes through difficulty.  No one on this earth can "prepare themselves for infertility", and to think you can do so is completely disillusioned and misguided, bordering on the insane! I only hope that this person remembers and perhaps regrets his / her lack of empathy in his / her time of need. Pain is pain, and I, for one, thank God for the hope IVF gives me._

By the way I thought your response on that board was fantastic. Good luck for a healthy and happy pregnancy.
Cat


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## mp (Jul 12, 2005)

Hi Cat,

I thought your response was fantastic! I hope you don't mind, but I've placed your comment into that forum under a post of mine. They don't know any details about this forum or anybody on here by the way. I just thought it was a great rebuttal to his comments.

Everybody else on that forum has been great; I've even had a couple of PM's from people saying they cried reading my posts!

I only want to raise awareness of the issues to those whom are not affected. Of course the debate can be sidetracked like it has here. But on the whole I think it's been very positive in helping others understand.

Cheers


MP


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## siheilwli (Jan 18, 2006)

Don't mind at all, although I thought you did a fab job of answering him yourself!  
Good luck
Cat


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## mp (Jul 12, 2005)

Somebody called "twopenceworth" has just placed a fantastic post on the whyguernsey forum. I presume it's someone from here as it was their first post.

I really enjoyed reading your post and many thanks for helping out.

http://www.whyguernsey.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9076&hl=

Thank you

MP


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## mp (Jul 12, 2005)

Another great post, this time from "Mr Chester" whom I assume is from here. Aside from any arguments, the posts really are making Guernsey people aware of the reality of infertility. In Guernsey we have no provision for IVF services and no free attempts. It's something which some politicians are looking at, but you feel it's not something that the majority are interested in. We can overspend by millions in Guernsey in building projects, but any help for things like IVF are not priority.

Cheers

MP


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## Foxys girl (Mar 17, 2007)

Hi MP,

Congratulations to you and DW on your BFP. 

I have read with interest this topic and the topic on the Guernsey forum, I think that you have been very restrained in your replies and I know if my DH had had to deal with anyone making judgements or comments like that he would have ended up being banned.  

I'm glad that pretty well everyone has rallied round, and supported you, because that's what "we" need to do.  Neither my husband or I have made any secret of our IVF treatment or how our baby was conceived and as yet we haven't met with anyone spouting forth or pontificating about the rights and wrongs of IVF treatment.  (good job too)

Like someone else mentioned on your other forum they thought it might be a religious stance, and said it was typical of a "Catholic" reply/view.  I would like to add that I was born and raised Catholic, and the rest of my family still practise (unlike myself) and I have never once had the smallest vibe from anyone about my treatment not being appropriate. (plus I am divorced and remarried - black sheep- and thought that I may get some comments about it being God's way of punishing me for my sins, from my aged aunt).

I also know of some more staunch Catholics on FF undergoing treatment - so just wanted point out that  religion probably has very little to do with most people's opinion on IVF. In fact I think some people end up praying (esp on the 2ww) more when they go through IVF  

Best of luck to you and your DW and I will continue to follow this thread as it is so interesting.

FG 

BTW - anyone reading this post - I do not want to get into any religious debates - I just thought it was interesting that someone mentioned "Catholics" in their post.


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## mp (Jul 12, 2005)

Hi FG,

That was me that mentioned "Catholic"  

I'm not religious and struggled to think of why someone would want IVF banned and only suggest adoption. A bit of "not that indepth" research suggested religion as a possibility. I threw that one in to see if the negative poster would confirm this or not as I was struggling to understand where his view generated from. I've got a christian friend whom is quite serious about his faith. He suggests that myself and our other non christian friends are going to hell, cannot have an alcoholic drink, etc, so I know that some people can have quite extreme views. He's a lovely guy though, but I'm reluctant to discuss the IVF thing with him.

I'm glad to hear though that you are a catholic and have received the support which you deserve. Your post has already given me a better idea on a subject that I am a bit green on.

The LAST thing I want is a debate on religion, I've got my hands full with the IVF issue  

Cheers

MP


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## mp (Jul 12, 2005)

I want to thank "Coco" for the extra support today. These real life stories provide a wonderful insight for the locals whom I am posting with on the Guernsey forum. The negative posters have been a bit quiet since my friends at FF have gotten involved. I hope they are mature enough to digest the replies you have given.

Thanks

MP


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