# Opinions pls girls!



## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

So, I've been reading several posts over the past week or two which have got me thinking and wondering.....particularly those from Coco, Sima and Winky 

All of you are doing so much research to try and figure out what is going to give you the very best chance of conceiving with your own eggs and it has got me wondering if I have 'given in' too quickly and whether I should be doing more to investigate things before going down this donor route

Possibly a bit late to be thinking about this with my donor starting stimms today, but I guess I'm starting to think that perhaps I haven't looked into things enough

I wonder whether my changed lifestyle in the past 6 months (significant weight loss, healthy eating, exercise etc) has made any difference to my own egg quality? And also whether the PGD was only indicative of one cycle, not what I might get on subsequent cycles? And should I be looking at my immune issues (high NK cells etc) in more detail before I go ahead - even with donor eggs?

Not sure if I'm feeling this way because my donor cycle is about to start and it's natural nerves, or whether it's something deeper. 

Any thoughts? Should I be doing more research before I give up on my old eggs? Feeling a bit mixed up about it all this evening  

Good news is my counsellor is back next week (been away for a month getting married) and I have an appt on Mon eve, so will have a chat with her and see if that helps a bit. 
In the meantime though, opinions welcome - think I just needed to verbalise my thoughts since they've been going round in my head for a couple of weeks now...

Suitcase
x


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## Betty-Boo (Oct 14, 2007)

Suity - snap been thinking the same... What's your AMH level?  This is the one test that isn't effected by weight / stress etc (unlike FSH which is) - so it might be worth having that done to see if it is worth you trying 1 more time with your own eggies.  I've always been told that if I was   like crazy I could still conceive as I am still ovulating... (been thinking along the lines of IUI tbh - seeing as I won't respond to fert drugs).  Never know a little trip to   Falklands might give me an opportunity      
Hope you come to a decision you're comfortable with honey x x 
Can't remember what Stepan said after your PGD?

big hugs x x


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

Suity it is so hard I think how you are thinking and feeling is totally normally when you move onto DE's, I started the DE route last April/May but I do have discussion with my donor's partner saying 'but maybe I shouldn't have given up on my old eggs'.  I also said this to my gynaecologist.  I guess it is all part of the process of grieving for them.

PGD is just what occurs on that cycle, why not email Penny in Serum if you are unsure and run FSH, LH AMH etc

Although as your donor is stimming it may be the timing of it that is making you think more.

L x


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

Mini - in my case I've always responded well and got plenty of eggs (20, 20, 12, 10) so although the numbers of eggs have decreased each cycle I'm still getting quite a few, so don't think AMH would answer it

Question is quality - on that one cycle when I had PGD I had 6 embryos which were OK to be PGD'd and all of them were severely chromosomally abnormal. After that Stepan gave me 5% chance with own eggs vs 35-40% prior to that cycle...and so I basically decided 5% wasn't good enough and started the DE process

And I guess now I'm just wondering whether I got unucky on that cycle and that there are some 'good' eggs in there. But then again, I'd already had 4 previous BFNs and 1 miscarriage, so maybe that's just wishful thinking?

And besides how many tries might it take to find that one elusive good egg?

Think I know I need to move on really, guess it's just everyone doing so much research and me thinking maybe I gave in too easily - just took S at his word really and didn't do any further exploration or tests or anything....it's prob just cold feet as this DE cycle kicks in....

Suitcase
x


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## Betty-Boo (Oct 14, 2007)

AMH relates to quality too.  AMH is a hormone marker for quantitative prediction of ovarian reserve, ovarian aging, ovarian dysfunction and ovarian responsiveness.

Think its worth a try.


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

oh, interesting, I had always been under the impression that AMH was related purely to quantity - ie it measured ovarian reserve and nothing else....

but if it also relates to quality maybe I should get it done. will see if LWC does it, since my GP is so darn unhelpful  
although LWC might think me a bit odd to be having AMH test done in the same week as my donor is stimming for DE cycle...and I'm def not going to cancel this cycle, so maybe I should just put all this to the back of my mind, see if this cycle works...if it does I'll be over the moon at being pregnant and it won't matter. And if it doesn't, well maybe then I should look at some investigations...so complicated all this and hard to know the right thing to do

Suitcase
x


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

I also thought AMH was a reflection on ovarian reserve and not quality, and assist in helping Drs guage what doses of drugs needed, resonse - hence if you have had a cycle of IVF ARGC won't do an AMH as they say that they have more info on response.

http://www.advancedfertility.com/amh-fertility-test.htm

/links


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## Betty-Boo (Oct 14, 2007)

TBh - after going through the failure of my own eggies back in Jan - having a semi melt down and then counselling - I did vow never to put myself through that again.  I'm not sure I could take another emotional blow like that.  Hence I've tried to focus on Donor Eggs - but every now and then I do think ... what if ... do think that these thoughts are all part of the natural process of getting to where we need to be and questions we need to ask ourselves... IUI has been playing on my mind a lot - but am unsure of how much I want to put myself through.

big hugs honey x x wish you all the best for this cycle x x 

Ref AMH - your call but I'm sure if we all googled various website - each one would have their own slant on it.  I was told that it gave an indication of both quality and quantity.


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## wizard (Nov 6, 2008)

Suitcase I have no experience in this field so don't think I can offer you any sound advice but in terms of your eggs and the diet / exercise thing, I have been told many times now, as we all probably have, that our eggs are as old as we are and that diminshing quality and quantity is overwhelmingly related to that.  Good health overall may make a difference to success but I'm not sure that it makes a direct difference to egg quality.  Whether the results of PGD on another cycle would be different is another question entirely and not one I know anything about.  It is a hard situation you are in and I understand your uncertainty.  But as you are still going ahead with this cycle I wish you lots of luck and hope it all goes much much better than last time.

Wizard x


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## midnightaction (May 20, 2003)

Suity

I think at the end of the day having the baby that your going to love is whats most important and not the genetic link by using your eggs, but that of course is always much easier said than done, and although I have resigned myself to look at moving on to DE there is still a part of me is hoping that I could get my eggs to work.

I would highly recommend a consult with Dr Sher, I was skeptical that one man could be so knowledgeable and know all the answers but I was blown away by some of the things he said and he made me feel extremely positive about my eggs. He has convinced me that to date I have not received the right treatment protocols for my body and that a few tweeks would make all of the difference. He also told me that every cycle is always different and just because eggs are good/bad on one cycle does not mean they will always be the same next cycle.

I discussed PGD with him and he advised me that he no longer has confidence in PGD being an accurate indicator of embryo quality because it only checks some of the chromosomes. There is a new technique called CGH that Dr Sher pionerred that tests all of the chromosomes . It is very expensive to have done but at SIRM they are so confident in it working that if a CGH competent embryo is transfered and you do not end up clinically pregnant then they will give you a full refund on the treatment cost.

http://www.haveababy.com/?CGH

I don't know how good this treatment is as I haven't used it but if your looking at different options I thought it might be worth mentioning.

Hopefully this will all be academic anyway as your upcoming DE cycle will give you that BFP.

Best wishes hun

Sarah xxx

/links


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## Felix42 (Oct 14, 2007)

Suity, sorry you're wrestling with this at the moment. I guess it probably partly is the timing and that feeling of have we done enough before stopping trying something. 
I did have a bit of a period of mourning about my own eggs but then thought about what else I might be losing by carrying on that path regadless e.g more potential time for baby with his/her grandparents, potential siblings to grow up with and meeting the baby I will love however s/he appears. Not using your own eggs is not about saying goodbye to your baby, it is more about saying goodbye to one of the babies that could have been yours. Try and think what is it about having a baby genetically rather than biologically linked to you that is so important that you are potentially willing to put yourself thru even more anguish and then decide. That might be a more useful thought process than thinking what other treatments/clinics you could use. Just my opinion and I still have occassional wobbles about DE but this baby is very much my baby and going to be part of my wider family and because of DE this has been possible, I'm sure, sooo much earlier than it would have been with my OE (if that could have ever happened). 

Wishing you lots of  and  
Love & hugs, Felix xx


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## midnightaction (May 20, 2003)

*Cem* The prednisolone and me did not mix well at all this time, really we didn't , well maybe it was me and all the cake and crisps didn't mix well and I have put on about 19lbs this cycle combined with the last 

I know it's not huge amount but because I am so short extra weight on me makes my BMI shoot through the roof and it has been mentioned to me by a couple of people that I need to get it down 

I do feel a little bit of a fraud having a weight loss tracker because I know some of the ladies on here have done amazingly well to loose so much weight, but it is the only think that will keep me motivated to actually do it.......it's like you ladies are watching over me and willing me to suceeed !! 

Anyway I am off the point of this thread now

Sarah xxx


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

Just wanted to say thank you all for your words and thoughts  

Am off to my sisters now to babysit so not much time to digest/think about things but really grateful to you all for your posts. Past 2 weeks have been tough with all the work travel/jet lag, 3 friends announcing pregnancies and the DE cycle starting up etc and I think I'm just a bit overwhelmed

At the end of the day, as many of you said, this is about having a baby/family and that's what I want, and have wanted for a long time. I need to focus on that and not get side tracked. My eggs are old, and tired, and even if there are one or two good ones in there, it could take years of OE IVF to find them, and I don't have the time, emotional or physical stamina to put myself through that. Better to spend those years as a parent than going through multiple OE IVF trying to become one...

Think I'm partly terrified that this DE cycle/DE in general won't work and then it will really feel like the end of the line - whereas if you keep trying with your own eggs, then you always feel like you've got the DE back up plan. Now that I'm moving on to my back up plan I'm scared it won't work either and really not sure how I'm going to deal with that
But I guess I should try to be more glass half full and believe it WILL work...

Anyway, off to entertain the nieces and nephews which is always fun - and demanding enough that I don't have time to dwell on things, which is good - think I have a tendency to think a bit too much!

Thanks again all,
Suitcase
x


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## Sima (Aug 10, 2008)

Hi Suity

I hope you are having a good time entertaining the children.  They are so lucky to have an aunt who is so involved in their lives.

I think you have been given some great advice from the girls on here and I particularly like Felix's explanation.  It took me a long time to get my head round using donor eggs but deep down I think it is the right choice for me.  I know Dr Penny said I might have given up on my eggs rather quickly but her solution of doing natural IVF, and therefore having a cycle and hoping that we find one good egg,  is highly controversial.  I do  not know of many clinics which follow this protocol but I have been advised that Serum have had many successes with older ladies by using this method.  I have a few months to make my decision so I will definitely do a lot more research and soul thinking before I go ahead with my next tx.  At the moment I think I might try a natural OE cycle but using a donor as back up since I really can't face the thought of having to go through huge numbers of cycles to get my dream.  Hopefully this cycle will be the one which works for you and you will not have to go to Reprofit for your next tx but should you have to then may be you could look to use your OE with a back donor if your eggs don't make it.  It will certainly be more expensive since you will be paying for your own tx as well as the donor's.

I can see why you are having wobbles.  I know you had a very disappointing result earlier this year when all of your eggs were shown to be chromosonally abnormal but the fact that you still produce a good number of eggs will always give you that thought of what if.  After all you only need to find one good egg.  As you know I am a poor responder to stimming so do not produce many eggs and others on here do not respond at all to stimming and even though it was hard for us to come to terms with moving to DE in a way it is easier since we already know that our reserve is low and so the move to DE does seem like the most obvious choice to move forward.

I also think it is natural to have wobbles as we go through our treatment.  Remember the wobbles we all had when we all started tx as singlies?  We are making a huge life choice so we are always going to wonder what if.  Like you I worry how I will cope if DE do not work first time for me.  I struggle going through treatment anyway so I think the disappointment will be crushing.  This site is a god send.  There are a number of ladies who have been through 2/3 txs with DE before achieving their pregnancies.  It can work and it does.  I guess we just need to keep at the back of our mind that DE is not the panacea for all and there might be a journey still ahead of us and we will always have thoughts about what if but I believe when you feel that baby growing in your inside you your days of wondering what if will diminish and once your baby is here you will not even think what if but hopefully this was meant to be.

Sorry about the long post.  I just can't seem to stop typing once I get going. Have a chat with your counsellor tomorrow and hopefully she can also help you put things in perspective.

I do wish you all the luck in the world with this cycle.  I pray this is the one for you.  Not long to go now.    

Love Sima


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## blueytoo (Oct 5, 2003)

Suity - as I think I've mentioned before, the PGD experts are very clear that PGD is only any good for screening out known chromosonal issues in particular embryos and should only be used for that. I did a lot of research into PGD this year and it seems that it is one thing that all the experts are agreed on and that is also that it isn't useful in indicating whether someone should move on to donor eggs, particularly not on only one or two cycles.

As far as I know, there is no way or test, to actually know whether all someone's eggs are "no good" anymore in the same way that you can test to see if your lining/immune system etc are "no good". So I would imagine that anyone thinking of using donor eggs based on BFN's is really just trusting that's it the right thing to do. If you end up only producing a couple of eggs or end up with no embryos on repeated cycles then it's clear that your own eggs are "no good". 

I am realising more and more than IVF is just a numbers game. You could take two people with identical infertility issues and one could get pregnant after 2 cycles and one after 20. 

I would say that if you're having doubts it's for a reason and you should listen to your self. Take the time to talk over with the counsellor and maybe someone at the clinic too.


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## langtang (Sep 11, 2009)

Hi Suitcase and everyone else who's posted,

I am sure that doubts are pretty normal at every stage of this process - I hope you are feeling a bit better today and that everyones posts below have helped.

As far as the AMH test is concerned - I had my FSH back at 8 and thought I was okay.  The lab lost my AMH sample so I had to get it re-done and when it eventually came back it was very low (3.5) which sent me into a flat spin.  Having now read loads of articles about it they all seem to contradict one another about whether it predicts quality or not.  Everyone seems to agree that it predicts quantity.  Then I looked at lots of different posts from this site and others with people saying that they have low AMH and they often seem to have been given different advice too, but happily I found quite a lot who have been successful with AMH as low as 1.  I am assuming that as it is a relatively new test noone really knows all the answers yet.  At my clinic one nurse told me that she thought it gave a prediction of quality and the other said that it definitely didn't!  Success rates are lower with a low AMH, but then it's still just a numbers game at the end of the day and there are so many other variables...  They did both agree though that it was most useful for predicting response to the drugs and therefore deciding short/long protocol and amount of drugs, but if you have already had several cycles before then the previous cycles are probably more useful.  

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Clare


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## muddypaws (Apr 10, 2008)

Hi Suity,
I think that your last post was very insightful. I'm not surprised that you are having a few doubts. I think that it is a normal part of the grieving process for your own eggs and that very real feeling of losing something in moving to donor eggs. It is incredibly brave to make the decision to move to donor eggs but also probably right for you, even despite the wobbles, if you want to give yourself the greatest chance of achieving your family. Something has made you move forward and you probably need to trust in that. I was lucky that my one good egg emerged for my fourth embryo transfer and I got Mini. It could easily have taken much longer or not happened at all - I agree that it's a numbers game and a chance game and all that. I would have moved to donor eggs had the last cycle not worked; had my cycle with Reprofit all booked in. 

I really wish you all the luck, love and hope in the world for your current cycle. Our bubbas are so lucky to have such brave and determined mamas.  

Muddy x


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

Thanks again to everyone who has replied, I really appreciate you taking the time to give your thoughts and views 

I've had a lovely weekend with my sister and the little ones....which has definitely re-confirmed for me that the most important thing for me to do right now is whatever gives me the highest chance of having my family sooner rather than later.

I _am_ sad about having to use donor eggs, and there's no point pretending I'm not. But I'm also realistic enough to know that I want a baby/family more than anything else in the world right now, and if donor eggs is what gives me the greatest chance of that, then I'm going to take it. I do feel a sense of regret when I look at my nieces and nephew and see how similar they are to me/my sis (me and sis have been mistaken for eachother in pics and my nieces/nephew are often mistaken for my kids when I'm out and about with them - there is a strong family resemblance) - but then I remember that there would have been no guarantee that children from my own eggs would necessarily have looked like me anyway....so no point dwelling on that....

I know there may be a good egg in me somewhere, but I just don't have the money, stamina, or emotional strength to keep on doing cycle after cycle in the hope that I can find it. I'll be 40 in less than 6 months so the stats are just getting worse and worse and I've been through so much in the past 2 years that now I just want to do whatever gives me the highest chance of avoiding more disappointment and heartache. I know DE is no guarantee and that really scares me, but continuing with my own eggs when the chances are so low is no option either.

So, onwards and upwards, and hoping my donor is responding well to the stimms 

Shall still chat through all this with my counsellor tomorrow - but deep down I know I'm doing the right thing for me. I guess I just have to accept that there will be ups and downs along the way.

On a slightly side note, children are amazing aren't they? My niece is just 5 years old and today she asked me why I didn't have any babies, and whether that made me sad. Had to hold back the tears on that one  Surely she can't have picked up on it, and I'm pretty sure my sister wouldn't talk about me/my tx infront of her....
Then she asked me why I didn't have a daddy - by which she meant a husband, so I explained the difference between daddy and husband and once we'd sorted that out, she wanted to know where my actual daddy was - ie why doesn't nanny have a husband. Didn't quite know what to say or whether my sister has ever discussed death with her - my dad died when I was 14. Anyway, went with the truth and explained it was a long time ago and he was very sick and he couldn't get better so he died and went to heaven. To which she replied - 'is he with the angels now?' Must be the Catholic education she's getting  Felt kind of surreal to be having that sort of conversation with a 5yr old though....she's asked me about kids and husband before, so she's clearly giving it some thought....you can't help but wonder how their minds work and how they're processing all this information....

Anyway, thanks once again for all your help and support, 
Suitcase
x


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## kylecat (Oct 18, 2007)

Suitcase - what a sweet but quite deep conversation to be having with your niece! She sounds quite a bright little spark! The other day my nephew asked me why I didn't have a husband and I replied that I hadn't found a nice enough man yet, he then said, well why don't you marry my daddy!!! We had to explain that his daddy was already married to his mummy (my sister!)  

Glad that you are feeling a little more positive about this cycle and hope the chat with your counsellor helps to reconfirm things. Wanted to wish you tonnes of luck for the next few weeks. With all the practice you've had with your nieces and nephew, you'll make a wonderful mum. 

Kylecat xxx


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## Betty-Boo (Oct 14, 2007)

Suity your niece sounds a lovely little girl.  x x


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

Thanks Mini and Kylekat - my niece is exactly like the little girl with the curl in the poem - when she's good, she's amazing, and when she's bad, she's truly truly awful  
She can be the sweetest thing when she's in the mood, but when she's not, she's impossible! I guess you could say that of most, if not all children to some extent, but she definitely stretches your patience when she's having an off day - but then the good days more than make up for it  

Had a good chat with my counsellor this evening and am feeling much better about the whole thing, think I was just having a natural wobble with tx starting again soon (well, fingers crossed starting this time round...)
My best chance at having a family is DE, and having a family is what's most important to me, so that's where I'm going to focus  

Thanks once again to everyone for your words of support,
Suitcase
x


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## ♥Jovial♥ (Feb 25, 2007)

Glad you're feeling better Suity - sending     that this is the one!

You so deserve it.

All the best,
Jovi x


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## RichmondLass (Apr 26, 2009)

Suity I'm so sorry that you are sorry to be using donor eggs  I guess you know my take.  I am delighted because it means i have a chance to be a mum rather than no chance! Imagine if it wasn't an option!  i do know that genetics are important for some people but I don't really understand why - and I guess that's one important question to ask.  Does it really matter if our offspring look like us? 

Once you are preggers you won't give a stuff!  You'll be far more concerned about whether the little blighter is healthy and got all his bits and pieces.  I haven't given a thought to what Pedro/Maria is going to look like (dressed up in his/her bullfighters/flamenco outfit). other than hopefully a damn sight more attractive than their mother! My friend's three children all look different and look nothing like their cousins.  It happens.

And remember the lady who said your friend's child looked like you!  

Someone emailed me recently and asked how I feel to be using donor eggs and I don't really know how to answer that. It's the same as asking me how does it feel to be pregnant! Marvellous!

Having more time to be a family and enjoy your son/daughter is a great thing to  be focusing on.  i hope Hans/Astrid (I can't remember where your sperm is from! But I've got a feeling a lot of smoked fish might be involved in your future) arrives first time but it's not a guarantee - but I really hope it works this time round.
I think wobbles before something as lifechanging as getting pregnant is natural.  i remember thinking what the **** am I doing and wondered how It would look to everyone if I pulled out at the last minute! Thankfully i didn't, but I still think how on earth am I going to cope!

RLxxx


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## upsydaisy (May 9, 2009)

Hi Suity

Glad your feeling a bit less wobbly   At one stage in my journey donor eggs looked like being my only option, I wish someone like RL had been around at the time!  
My daughter looks nothing like me! She does look like her granddad which frankly is a bit of a worry .  I hope and pray she doesn't inherit any of my dodgy hormonal issues . 
I often had children in my class asking similar questions to your niece. I teach 6 year olds and children of that age, especially the girls think that all nice ladies should be mummies.  The more they like you the more they think you should be a mummy because they think it's a sort of waste that your not! I love that logic! Strangely I've never been asked about a boyfriend/husband (well not by the infants the 11 year olds are a different ball game altogether  ).  
RL - I so love your attitude, that is one lucky babster you have there, the 6 year olds have got it right, nice ladies should be mummies!  

lots and lots of    Suity   
Upsy
xxx


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