# Travelling abroad for treatment Article



## Dunnie (Mar 26, 2007)

I came across this article which was really good and thought I'd post it for others info;

http://www.infertileworld.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=471&Itemid=32

Travelling abroad for treatment Article 
Written by Alan & Elaine Lynch 
Sunday, 21 January 2007


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## olivia m (Jun 24, 2004)

It's a good article but I'd just like to comment that of course no-one in DC Network thinks that "donated cells are culturally aware".  It is, however, true that they carry DNA characteristics that may be specific to a particular region of the world.  Not necessarily a problem if the family plans to be open with their child.  Could be a problem if not.
Olivia


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## Jennifer (Jul 22, 2004)

But Olivia !

I do remember you posting that women who have children from tx abroad have some sort of obligation to the child to bring it up with strong links to the culture from where that egg/sperm originally came !

I quote _"You will, I assume, being bringing them up with dual cultural heritage so that they can know something of their Czech, Russian or Spanish backgrounds - this will certainly explain why they don't quite seem to fit in with English looks, if neither you nor your partner share this particular heritage."_

Something which caused a lot of upset at the time I seem to remember 

I also remember others posting that if they had had donations from UK donors, they could not possibly know whether those people were French, Italian, Russian, Czech or whatever other nationality. People donating in UK clinics could be (or _their _ parents could be) from anywhere in the world and we would not necessarily be told.


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## Morvern (May 16, 2005)

_It is, however, true that they carry DNA characteristics that may be specific to a particular region of the world. _

And what DNA characteristics would they be, just out of interest? I mean considering that the clinic will be matching my physical appearance?


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## roze (Mar 20, 2004)

I really don't see how culture is an issue unless the child is so obviously from a different culture /ethnic group to his/her recipient parents ie Chinese/mixed race.  We considered adopting a child from China at one point, and this would have been relevant then.

We went to Eastern Europe for a donor for various reasons associated with success rates and money,  but as it happens my DH's family also originates from there a few generations back so see no issue there in either case- the child will be fully aware of the cultural history of one side of his/her family.  My family are not alive so for this reason there will be lesser emphasis on my side.

As Jennifer  pointed out, apart from ethnic identification , it is not clear from where donors actually originate  -there are for instance many Eastern European donors in Spain  hence bringing a resultant child up as having Spanish heritage may be a real nonsense.  The same applies to the UK, as long as the donors match the race/ethnic group of the recipient family, then they could come from a range of places.

In respect of DNA, I understand that more is known now to enable more detailed identification of the areas of the world where people originate.  However at the end of the day, is this likely to be relevant to most donor recipient families and donor conceived children?  The whole nature v nurture debate is still going on out there!



roze


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## longbaygirl (Aug 19, 2004)

Well said Roze.

This is yet another cynical attempt by the DCN and Olivia to try and make us feel guilty for using DE and to stop people making their own choices about if and when they will tell their children. 

If I wanted to know what the DCN thought I would go to their web-site, I don't need to be preached at here.


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## longbaygirl (Aug 19, 2004)

PS - Roze you will have to change your ticker - no surprise arrival!


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## alanelaine (Sep 10, 2005)

Just for the record, I included the DCN section of the article for balance.

It clearly gives the DCN view of informing resulting children of the DE process and allowing them the opportunity to seek an identity with the country of the treatment.  This is not brought out in the exerpt which Olivia has quoted.

The quoted section reflects the more generally held view amongst those going through DE that it is the birth parent's decision to advise on how much needs to be passed on to the child and at what stage (if any) they should learn the details of their conception.  I did not suggest that the DCN believes cells to be culturally aware - I merely indicated the broadly held view that they are not culturally aware.

I also realise that this article was written in November(ish) and pre-dates Olivia's retraction of her previously indicated views.  However, I am disappointed to be quoted out of context in this instance and hope others take the opportunity to read the paragraph in full.

A&E


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## Jennifer (Jul 22, 2004)

Hi A&E

I think the original point to this thread has been slightly missed as Olivia stepped in.

She has a canny nack of causing grief on these boards and tempers flare as a result.

Please don't take it personally, it is not a reflection on you or your article which was really well written and well informed 

xx


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## olivia m (Jun 24, 2004)

And I did say I thought the article was good - both well written and mostly very well informed.  Sorry if some people have taken my comments personally.  I was simply, and innocently, attempting to put right what appeared to be an incorrect view attributed to DC Network.
The nature/nurture debate indeed continues and I am personally a great supporter of the perspective that we are all a mixture of both.  I can only repeat that those who are being truthful with their child and are willing to follow their curiosity about their donor (IF they have this and not all DC offspring do), have little to be concerned about.
Olivia


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## Grumpygirl (Oct 24, 2004)

Alan & Elaine- your article was _*fab*_. Well balanced, informative and sensitively written. I would pass it on to anyone wondering what we were doing and why. Please don't feel at all bad about the comments made by Olivia or how they've been twisted. Jennifer's comment is right on the button.

I just wrote a long reply outlining my personal views on the topic but decided to delete it as I have made my opinions clear in the past and I don't need to justify myself to her again.

BUT...
It is quite simply the case that to have had the 3 negative cycles we've had in a year abroad it would have taken NINE YEARS to have those cycles here at the clinic we're under in the UK. Until this state of affairs changes here there is no way of addressing this and unfortunately the DCN can't legislate or affect our decisions to go abroad.

Olivia- 
This impotence to change our decisions to go abroad must be why you keep turning up on our threads but I for one have previously asked very nicely that you leave us alone. We are intelligent people who have arrived at very difficult decisions based on a great deal of heartache, please don't preach to us. You are not having IVF and are not a FERTILITY FRIEND. Those of us seeking the opinion of the DCN will contact you.

I have never been so blunt or rude on any thread on FF, please excuse me anyone else reading this.
Giggly


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## Morvern (May 16, 2005)

The thing that really bothers me about Olivia is that she never actually debates. Which is odd for someone so convinced of the rightness of her own opinions. She just spouts her unsubstantiated views, which she tries to word authoritatively, into the debate and then disappears when those views are challenged. I've seen her posts get systematiically pulled to pieces on these threads but she just  pops up on another thread with her unsolicited opinons.


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## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

I resoundingly say "ditto" to gigglygirl's post.  When a certain person pops in and preaches to us here that is not doing treatment abroad I for one fell my blood boil.  And it does feel very much like being preached to.  Maybe this person has another calling elsewhere  the church or politics maybe but not "friend of those struggling with infertility", IMO.

Alain and Elaine,  I followed your story and congratulated you on your story in the past.  It is excellent in all ways and MORE THAN "mostly well informed"; it is personal.  Thank you very much for that contribution.  ANd to Dunnie for posting it again for others to read.  
b123 / bonnie


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## Dunnie (Mar 26, 2007)

Thanks everyone (except Olivia) for your comments - I hadn't expected it to prompt so much debate when I posted it. 

We've just started down the overseas route for donor egg IVF and found the article really helpful.  IVF, Donor Eggs and overseas treatment is not something we've taken lightly and have spent many hours thinking about, talking about and agonising about and feel that this is a great opportunity seeing as the we're not able to pursue treatment in the UK due to HFEA rules on anonimity.

Good luck everyone with your journeys 

Dunniex


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## Martha Moo (Jan 30, 2004)

Hiya ladies

Dunnie like you i didnt think this thread would bring such a debate

Alanandelaine such a great written article 

What we have to remember is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion no matter whom they be.

The support on this board is immense and i feel very happy to be part of it

The support will go on i know

for those whom arent yet aware there is a abroadies chat thread

and several clinic threads also if you need help in finding them please shout up and i will assist you in that way

or why not pop into one of the abroadie chats
be lovely to see you 

Emxx


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