# Resisting going to the toilet - only with me!



## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

Any help, please?

Our Bug's a joy and I'm crazy in love with him.  He also DRIVES me crazy!

Most of the time I can manage his little foibles, as long as he's happy and growing and we're all enjoying each other's company.

But I'm starting to worry about his toilet habits - I could call it potty training, but we're months down the line from that, really.  At nursery and childminder's, he happily goes to the toilet.  He occasionally has accidents, but only the usual too-busy-playing-to-stop type.  At home with DH, he happily goes to the toilet, a mix of self-directed and prompted, with a few rare accidents.

At home with me, he never takes himself off to the toilet, or takes me up on a offer of coming with me, or responds positively to a prompt about getting more buttons for his jar so he can buy a new movie (our reward system for self-directed visits to the loo, implemented a couple of weeks ago, pretty positively).  Instead, he shouts, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!  I NOT GO TO THE TOILET!!! NO!!!" rages and spits and gets angry.

He's just three, started potty training about six months ago when he decided he wanted to wear "big boy pants", took to it really easily, really relaxed, mostly a fun experience.  He still wears nappies at night, but mostly because we didn't want to tackled another Big Thing around his birthday, celebration day and family visits.  He's dry at night, but if it's me saying it's time to take the nappy off before we go downstairs, he screams and rages and resists.

He'll be so desperate to go that he can't stand still, can't play, can't do anything except jiggle and hunch, and a mild suggestion of, "are you doing a pee dance?" results in resistance, shouts, temper and the inevitable accident.

*facepalm*

Part of me thinks, yeah, that's little boys for you, it'll wear off in time.  But part of me thinks it's getting worse.

Sometimes, when he stalls on a developmental thing, taking a leap forward can really help him.  E.g. converting cot to cot bed helped him settle and distracted him from night time separation anxiety; going to nursery helped him with attachment and security; more grown-up food and cutlery helped him with eating.  I'm wondering if it's just time to take nappies off at night, and that leap might help him, but if he carries on resisting, it's just going to make it worse.

Thoughts?

Sorry for the long post!

(We've tried ping pong ball in the toilet, stickers on the loo seat, bubble mixture in the bowl, but all these enticements seem to be wearing off.  He loves the bathroom at bath time, so I don't think it's place related.  There's no suggestion he doesn't want to be seen or there's been any inappropriate touching in the past or anything)

Thanks for reading.


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## crazyspaniel (Sep 12, 2012)

Yep, we have some of this going on too  

Can't comment on the nighttime nappy as DD is still wet overnight....

If I try to insist the wee will end up in anywhere but the toilet is I will read your thread with interest!

Hope it gets sorted for you soon x


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## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

Oh man, we had one of those.  And it was his morning wee, too, and for a little guy, he has the bladder of an elephant.... took ages to clean up and I still think the bathroom carpet will be permanently wee-encrusted....

(Note to DH: THIS is why I hate carpet in the bathroom!)


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## keemjay (Jan 19, 2004)

what about having an bleeper/alarm that goes off to tell him its pee time..that way its not *you* telling him to go


kj x


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

We had this issue with Wyxling too.  Wouldn't use the toilet/potty for me, would for hubby.  Deliberately weeing all over the place if she was in a mood.  As with most things with Wyxling, it's all about control.  

I would just make sure he has quick access to a potty or toilet, somewhere he won't have to ask you to take him if you still have stairgates as that may feel like "giving in", and let him get on with it.  I would stop asking him whether he wants to go entirely, it sounds like he knows he wants to go, and isn't going for a reason, probably to wind you up and exert control if he's anything like Wyxling can be at times!  

We had this twice and first time it lasted a few days, second time just a day and a half, and she hasn't done it again for a month or more, probably because she wasn't getting what she wanted out of it (Mummy baiting!).  I just did a very sympathetic and matter of fact "ooh, poor you, that must feel horrible being covered in wee, especially in this cold weather, let's get you cleaned up before you get cold/sore" every time she wet herself, made some sympathetic noises, cleaned her up as if it wasn't a hassle, even if she was going completely dead weight on me the whole time and making it extremely hard work.  I made it very clear that it was OK, Mummy knows it was an accident (even when I very definitely knew it wasn't), these things happen, let's get you in some nice clean clothes.  I always cleaned Wyxling up before whatever she's weed on.  She generally fairly gleefully pointed out that whatever it was she'd weed on was wet and needed cleaning, and I just brushed it aside with a "oh, the sofa can wait, Wyxling needs cleaning up first" and dealt with it once she was clean and comfortable.  I found it helped to reinforce to her that it's not a major inconvenience that she just weed all over the sofa/blanket/cushion etc, even if it is, because that's what she wants.

I also often give random rewards for doing things like that.  If I said she could have a chocolate if she weed on the potty, she'd wee on the floor to show that I can't bribe/control her.  If I leave her to her own devices and just spring a treat on her as a reward for, say, managing to stay clean all afternoon even though we've been out/not always been able to get to the toilet etc, then it tends to put her in a good mood, and then fuel more good behaviour in other areas as well.

Hope that helps,

Wyxie xx


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## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

Wyxie, you're a star and an inspiration. Wish you were here in person so I could give you a hug.

He already has easy access and has had for months, but I think the key is in handling the accidents, and backing off prompting completely.

Yeah, I think deep inside I knew that was what was needed, but I have trouble sometimes trusting that that will end up going where we need things to go, IFSWIM.  Deep breaths, some mummy-re-education, and we'll tackle it this way.

Oh god, but I wish we had more pee-friendly surfaces.....

Out of interest, how would you tackle the taking the morning nappy off issue?  He can't manage this himself, because he can't manage the popper vests.


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## Poppets Mammy (Mar 7, 2011)

We went through this a few months ago and I agree it seems to be a control thing, well it Deff was for poppet anyway. She'd deliberately not go if I asked and would just be increasingly awkward over it if I tried to press the point (if I could see she was bursting or we were going out). I found just being cool about it all like Wixie describes really helped. If she won't go when prompted I now just say 'Ok, well if your sure' and leave it at that. It turns out that she'll likely go a few mins later when I'm not looking because that's 'her idea' haha   they are complicated little control freaks at times aren't they, I think they just want independence really. She'd also only do it with me, she'd be totally perfect with her toileting the rest of the time but would decide she wanted to wind me up and refuse to go then have little accidents   Once I figured out her game and didn't rise to her pushing my buttons it soon stopped. I also used to sometimes make it funny so I'd say 'Oh I really need a wee, hope someone doesn't beat me to the toilet' cue little poppet dashing past me pulling her trousers down giggling away   cheeky monkey. She just loves to think she has the control. 

We've been preparing for nighttime training for a while and just removed the nighttime nappies two nights ago so it's all new to is as well. Is little Bug's nappy dry most nights? Poppet was desperate to get rid of hers but had to wait for her body to catch up with her mind, she's so chuffed there gone. Why don't you stop putting popper vests on bug so he can get to his nappy and get it off if need be. Poppet used to make a fuss about taking her nappy off on a morning as well when she was going through that faze. When they were wet I'd just so 'Oh well then, you'll have a wet bum till you take it off' she'd then make a fuss about that and take it off herself and say 'See me no more wet bum 😝' and I'd be thinking 'yeah and I've just tricked you into doing what I wanted', haha. Once she started having dry nappies she was coming out of her awkward toileting faze anyway but would take her dry nappy off straight away to show us it was dry as she was so proud, could you maybe encourage something like that. Perhaps along the lines of 'Why don't you take your bedtime nappy off and see if it's dry' 'oh it is dry, Wow excellent and good job on taking your nappy off yourself, soon you won't need them'.

Hope there's something useful amongst that for you  
Xx


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

I bet you wouldn't want to give me a hug; Bladelet threw his entire dinner up all over me at bedtime and I've only managed a quick wipedown so far!  

It's so hard to keep perspective and stay calm when faced with these sort of things.  I always go through a few days of reacting totally the wrong way before I get my head in gear when Wyxling finds something new to be awkward about.  Luckily *touch wood* although she's still very controlling by a lot of children's standards, she seems to be making really good progress in this regard and things are a lot easier than they used to be!

I would just go with normal vests and pull ups, as a starter for bedtime potty training.  If he does refuse to take them off the next morning you can rip the velcro down the sides apart before he knows it with a bit of practice, but he may be OK if it's something he can do himself.  He will probably quite like the idea as it's a more "grown up" thing, and pull ups kind of fit so you don't actually need the popper vest to keep them in place like you often do with normal nappies.  

On the subject of pull ups, I have tried all supermarket own brands and not one of them has kept Wyxling dry through the night, only Pampers seem to do the trick, so I get them, even though they're more expensive.


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## Poppets Mammy (Mar 7, 2011)

Urgh Wyxie, go have a wash    the closet I've ever had to a baby throwing up on me was when poppet sneezed chewed up apple all over me the other day, that was rank enough - haha

Ahhh that's what popper vests are for   Poppet has always had nighttime pull ups so when I refer to nappies that's what I mean. Hadn't thought about actual nappies and trying to keep them in place at night as never had to deal with that. I'd Deff do as Wyxie suggests, use pull ups and normal vests/Pj's in preparation for nighttime training. We also tried all supermarket brands and they were naff, have to say we never tried pampers but we always used drynites and found them great. They also can pull apart on the sides so can be ripped off easily. 
Xx


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

Haha, Wyxling had been home 16 months or so before she threw up, we were really lucky there, Bladelet managed to do it on the second or third day of intros, and I didn't have a change of clothes.  He threw up milk sick straight in my lap, so I had to drive home feeling like I'd wet myself - not pleasant!  (I am now clean).

Oh, on the subject of toilet training boys, my friend is trying to toilet  train her 3 1/2 year old, who is somewhat developmentally delayed.  She is tearing her hair out.  She's been doing it for four weeks now and the only success she had was by telling him the potty is on fire and fireman Josh and his hose are needed to put it out, at which point he will happily toddle over there and do his best to have a wee.


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## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks guys!  Things seemed to improve this weekend in attitude, although he still had a couple of accidents.  But I don't mind the accidents without the attitude!  Then we had a playdate and his friend had an accident and he asked to go!  We also think we've found the underlying pre-occupation (there's often something he's thinking about that's worrying him if there's a behaviour problem).  His childminder moved house over the weekend, and although she did a lot of prep work with them, he was still not sure what was going to change and what was going to be the same.  He went there this morning and was really happy with the new space and familiar friends, so hopefully that will help.  This morning he was fine with toilet and toothbrushing (another big hitter recently).

I really, really wish Bug was trickable!  We've tried all sorts along those lines, but if the end result is the thing he's resisting, he wont't be tricked.

He's been taking his own nappy off to show it's dry for months now, although I have to do the poppers first.  I'm keen to leave the vest off soon and see what happens.

LOL Wyxie!  If I can hug my Bug covered in vom, I can handle a bit of food!    I'm glad you said it can take you a while to react the right way, I'm not good at getting it right first time.  :-/  You're right, he likes pull ups, so perhaps tthat's the way.  If we're over the hump now childminder has moved, then perhaps we'll try this from Fri night.

Thank you!

ROFL at Fireman Josh!  Bug has rediscovered his, um, personal area.  We woke up this morning to his voice over the monitor, in equal mix of amazement and satisfaction, going, "it's getting bigger, and bigger and BIGGER!"


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## Poppets Mammy (Mar 7, 2011)

Really pleased to hear things have improved. I think your prob right that the child minder moving may of unsettled things for him, it would have exactly the same effect on Poppet, any little change that she doesn't really understand gets her all confused and wound up and we will go back a step with certain things until she realises what she was worried about was not worth worrying about - I love her little face when she has an 'Ohhhh so that's what was happening, that's no biggy, Mammy & Daddy are here' moment.

On the vomit discussion it seems I spoke too soon, Poppet woke up in the middle of the night vomitting. God bless her it was everywhere, her hair, all over the bed covers, her blanky, her toes!!?!   So impromptu midnight wash down and bed change. I woke up this morning with vomit on my booby   hahaha. We are having a sofa day as she is really weak and her little tummy is churning   Could of cried for her last night. 

Xx


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## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

Oh hugs all round.    We've had two bouts lately (and the D&V virus can be breathed in, if it's splashing around, so if you're being thrown up on it's almost inevitable you'll take some in!) and he was so good with it, bless him.  It was tiring, but it was lovely having all day sofa cuddles.  Hope you get some quality cuddle time in with the laundry....


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## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

Oh god.  HE pooped his pants out and about this morning, without remarking it at all.  I just noticed his expression.  Then he's just peed a full afternoon's bladder full through our feather cushion sofa, laid in it while watching a DVD, then got up to eat a snack still soaked.  He spent almost the entire day jiggling like he was desperate for the loo, but did nothing about it.  I'm trying to play it cool, but we don't have a pee-proof house!  Now I've got about 30 minutes clear up to do, and it's already past bath time.

What's going on?!


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## Poppets Mammy (Mar 7, 2011)

Oh lord AoC, you've had a real off day havn't you   Perhaps he's still just acting out a bit due to child minders environment changing?!? I'm sure what ever it is it will pass. If I were you I'd prob be pointing out that it was wrong and why but trying to keep the calm 'I'm not bothered about it' persona. Sending hugs your way  

We've had a right old drama over tea tonight. She's feeling better and been eating/drinking as her normal all day, after moaning she's hungry while I cooked her tea she then decided she'd play awkward buggers over eating it and even started playing with it. After having gentle reminders which then lead to warnings, 40mins later she chucked it across the room. What a palava! Kids eh  

It seems I keep speaking too soon at the min. Previously said we hardly have food refusal on another thread then had it twice this week. Said earlier on this thread that she'd never vomitted since living with us then that night threw up everywhere. I think I'm cursing myself  

Xx


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## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

LOL @ cursing yourself, Poppets!  Thanks for the hugs and reassurance.  We'll keep on trucking, praising the good stuff, calmly dealing with the bad.  But it's so darned tiring sometimes!

Hope you have a better day today.


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## crazyspaniel (Sep 12, 2012)

Morning,
Just wondering if its worth considering a urine infection?!
Hope you get a better day


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## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks crazy.  I did wonder, but he has no other symptoms at all, and goes to the toilet fine with childminder, nursery and mostly with Daddy.  

All that said, he did actually go to the toilet for me this morning, with only a token whine.

I've written a note to our childminder asking for her advice - she's always brilliant, too, so hopefully she'll have a thought or two.

Thanks guys.


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

It is incredibly tiring!  Hoping things get better soon.

We were much the same on the pee proof surfaces.  Actually, most of our problems came pre-potty training.  Wyxling hated letting us change her and fought and fought and fought.  She also used to take her nappy off and then simply refuse to put it back on, or sit on her potty.  She'd get more and more wound up and eventually she'd blow and then wee on me and the floor when I was holding her while she raged.  I was getting through four or five changes most days for me plus cleaning whatever I was sat on.  It was a complete pain, tiring, and for some reason it really upset me.  She stopped doing it eventually but things have wobbled the entire way through until we potty trained.

On a purely practical note, from someone else who has almost no pee proof surfaces, what about wrapping a waterproof mattress cover round the sofa seats?  Would bug take it off?  Of course that may just mean he looks for more inventive places to pee himself, but you never know!

Hoping you've had a better day, and maybe the child minder will give you some ideas.


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