# Need ICSI treatment NHS or ARGC? new to this site Pls help me



## Butterfliesbelly (Feb 10, 2015)

After browsing endlessly I think I'm at the right place to post this (hopefully) 
So here we go. Hello everyone, I'm 32, hubby 33, been married over 2yrs trying for a baby for almost 18 Mths and no luck!!! 

Turns out hubby has extremely low sperm count it's a severe case. No hope in hell for a natural pregnancy  

Now we are entitled to NHS treatment and will soon have a consultation with them but at the same time I'm worried about wasting my time and effort with them as I've read some bad stories about how they are not very thorough.  I don't know whether to try the NHS or just fork out the load of money and go to ARGC with whom we have had a consultation and were overloaded with info to the point of not knowing what I need to do next. 

They mentioned having to do a monitoring month then starting treatment, I don't even know if I have the choice or do I have to do it, is it standard procedure? About how much does it cost? 

Pls if anyone has been through this please help. Any info will be much appreciated. 
Also one last question: how long is the process from beginning of treatment whatever that is until a transfer? Thank you so much


----------



## Greyhoundgal (Oct 7, 2013)

Hi Butterflies and welcome to the forum 

Good to hear you've already enjoyed reading some posts around the forum and doing a bit of research  it's great the information you can glean from other ladies undergoing treatment 

With regards to whether or not to try nhs first, I think it might be worth it as you may get to find out what works (and get your BFP  ) or what doesn't in which case you could arm yourself with that info for ARGC.

Have you checked the regional boards out to check whst nhs treatment in your area is like? You could look here:

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=218.0

Or what about getting some feedback from the ARGC ladies?

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=333323.0

There's a guide to cycling at ARGC too

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=325104.0

Hope that gives you some ideas.....might be worth posting your question in those boards too.

Best of luck with making your decision 

Grey xx


----------



## Keeping busy (Apr 13, 2011)

It's a tough decision. I feel that we wasted 2 cycles and 10 months using an NHS clinic that didn't properly diagnose us and got our treatment protocol completely wrong. ARGC got me pregnant 2/2 times. I sadly miscarried both times but I completely trust them. Their clinic pregnancy rate and birth rate for first time treatment is amazing, it was about 80% at one point, but I'm not sure what it is now. They will now and be happy to tell you if you ask I'm sure,
Good luck


----------



## FlyingCat (Jan 23, 2011)

First thing I would do is see a decent urologist (try Mr Ramsay (Google him for contact).

For standard cases the nhs works well, we wee first time lucky and at 32 time is on your side (even though it may not feel that way. )

Good luck.


----------



## ScaryButExciting (Jan 29, 2015)

Hiya,

Hard decision, hereby my rational logic: if you can afford to do ARGC 3 times (have to plan for it to go wrong...) then maybe go straight there, otherwise I would start at NHS... You can never go the other way I believe (no more NHS after you have tried private?!)

I am budgeting ARGC at £10k a go, and am well on my way while just monitoring (about £2k in)

Also time is defo on your side! It is all relative  


Good luck x


----------



## kazzzee (Jul 29, 2014)

Due to your age I'd say you can safely give it a go on the NHS first, even if it doesn't work you and the doctors will learn about how your body reacts to the medication, and that will be useful if and when you move on to private. 

I had an NHS cycle in January and didn't even get to transfer. I'm 40 so there is a part of me that thinks I should have gone straight to ARGC, but I did get something out of my NHS cycle, I learned about the process and made some good friends - and you will too. Unlike me, for you a long wait at this stage shouldn't make a huge difference. I hope. 

ARGC do have an incredibly long waiting list though. I booked my consultation on 29 Jan and the actual appointment is on 27 March. The other delay with the ARGC is that they will want to run immune tests and that could delay things a lot. I'm expecting to have a lot of immune treatment that could mean I don't get to cycle again for some time. Would it have been better to go straight there this time last year? I don't know? Would I have felt as comfortable about the possible cost back then? Probably not. 

(There is a girl on here who has spent more that £20k on one cycle with ARGC because she needed a lot of immune treatment).


----------



## staceysm (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi,

I can't fault the NHS.  They were excellent and my first cycle worked and I have a son.

You have age and time on your side and a cycle at the Argc could cost up to 15/20k.

I would personally wait, but it's your choice at the end of the day.

Good luck
X


----------



## wibble-wobble (Apr 16, 2011)

Hi butterfliesbelly have you done any research on the nhs clinic that you would be referred to? Some clinics have really good success rates, although probably not as good as Argc but then with the cost of a cycle there and all the extras its no wonder.

How many nhs cycles would you be giving up? Like someone has said those funded cycles can be used as a learning curve before spending 10k a cycle at Argc if you are not successful. There are plenty of women who have had success after just 1 nhs attempt. You could be the same and that 10k can be spent on enjoying your bundle


----------



## bombsh3ll (Apr 19, 2012)

I echo the thoughts of others that if you can get any treatment free then start off with this as it is a very expensive business if you are self funding.

As well as age on your side, because you have a clear diagnosis of male factor this makes it less likely that you will have the type of complex immunological problems that people tend to go for ARGC for.

Your husband will either be able to produce sperm usable for ICSI (or have them obtained surgically) or he won't.

One other thing to mention & apologies if this isn't appropriate/desirable for you, but a much easier, cheaper, non-invasive and drug free option would be AI with donor sperm. It is worth giving this a thought even if just to rule it out before embarking on IVF/ICSI for male factor alone. Profit hungry clinics often neglect to mention more simple options first.

Best wishes,

B xxx


----------



## Keeping busy (Apr 13, 2011)

Just a thought but has anyone looked into why your hubby has a low count? Our original diagnosis was male factor but it was completely wrong as no one explored why hubby had a low count. We eventually conceived naturally


----------



## Butterfliesbelly (Feb 10, 2015)

Ladies I am overwhelmed by the number of responses I have had, thank you all so much!!!   

You have actually made me change my mind. I was feeling so desperate and under pressure that I thought it is best to go ARGC straight away. I haven't thought about the idea of failing twice and needing a third try simply because subconsciously part of me would rather ignore it   I've been telling myself it will work the first time and have a positive attitude but then again it's not so good because not preparing for the worse can also take you down when it happens. 

I did not know that once you go private you cannot give nhs a go. It is worth knowing in that case it is best not to waste that free go and free info. 

Thanks keepingbusy for the idea about looking into the reason of the low sperm count. We haven't. Argc said we should but since our first consultation and a call from them to give my husband the result of his sperm  analysis nothing has been done. They haven't told us the next step and we have not chased because we are waiting to see nhs on 19 March. I will keep it in mind. It will need to be done. 

We will go to university college London and they work with the crgh. Statistically they are good. If any of you have used them please let me have your feedback. 

Thanks again and best of luck of those of you on the journey with me.  





Thank you guys sooooo much  hugs and kisses


----------



## Greyhoundgal (Oct 7, 2013)

Butterflies - sounds like you got some really good & useful feedback here. What about posting here too:

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=345.0

This is the London board on the forum. You coukd ask about UCH and CRGH on there as well as look through current and old cycle threads to get a feel for treatment there.

Good luck

Grey x


----------



## ScaryButExciting (Jan 29, 2015)

Good luck Butterfliesbellies!!!! Sounds like you have a plan!  X


----------



## joycep (Oct 14, 2011)

Butterflies, just my two pennies. I went straight to the ARGC first. The first round cost us £17k to get us to 10wks pregnancy which ended in mmc and the second round cost us £12k and that was a bfn. The ARGC had told us our embryos were really poor quality and they thought it was my eggs. I was 33.  I then decided to use my NHS round and I was very dismissive, thinking what’s the point when the ARGC can’t even get me pregnant. Well my nhs round was also with the UCLH and I had no idea they were linked with the CRGH. I had a meeting with the top doc privately at the CRGH first and he went through all my notes. He couldn’t understand why the ARGC had made us do ICSI as my husband’s sperm was good/v.good. There were a number of other things that they suggested which the ARGC don’t do like embryoscope and I had growth hormone which I paid for privately alongside the NHS round. The ARGC had insisted we did IVIG which cost us £1500 a go and I never had that with the NHS round. Well i’m not there yet but am nearly 27wks pregnant with twins and I believe it was all the little bits that the CRGH did that made the difference. Of course you are always going to be biased about the one that makes the difference and whilst I don’t regret the ARGC rounds (they are v good and failing there twice gave a lot of info to the crgh/uclh) , CRGH/UCLH are also excellent and I think their facilities are much better and I found I had much more communication with the embryologists. So they are not an nhs round to dismiss.

Also agree with poster above about trying to find out why your husband may have a low sperm count. Sometimes asymptomatic infections can be the cause. I found the top doc at Andrology Solutions excellent and lovely as knows her stuff about male fertility.

Really best of luck!


----------



## smallbutmighty (Aug 5, 2013)

I had the same dilemma. I went NHS hoping to be a simple case (also male factor), but after they'd tried twice we moved to ARGC. 

ARGC produced way better quality embryos and a higher egg count for us. But they also put us through a lot of immune faff and it is immensely time consuming.  But worth it, because, can't believe I'm about to say this... I'm pregnant.

But, even with that in mind I'm not sure I'd jump into the immune stuff until I'd tried a straightforward cycle without as a kind of test run, for which NHS (Hammersmith) is not great, but is a lot cheaper.  

My PCT had no issue with switching back from private to NHS (I fitted in a quickie round at Lister before I went NHS - I would NOT recommend the former).  

Other thing I'd say is see how long the NHS wait actually is. One thing that drove me round the bend was being told I was being referred 'straight away' for treatment, which actually meant 6 months.


----------



## karenanna (Dec 27, 2008)

Pop over to the London Board and ask some advice there. I'm the moderator there, so happy to point you to the right threads if you need any help.

I had 4 failed ICSIs and eventually found the ARGC. Many people use them after failed IVFs, so I'm not sure I'd go there straight away unless you think you have particular issues e.g. immunes etc...

Re: the NHS stuff - I do know people who have had a private cycle and then gone back and had an NHS one - it really depends on the policy in your area, so always worth checking. It isn't as black and white as a definite 'no' to the NHS after private treatment.

Lots of   

KA xxx


----------



## Butterfliesbelly (Feb 10, 2015)

Thanks again ladies for all the valuable info. 
Smallbutmighty can you please develop on what you mean by six months waiting is that from GP's referral to before you got to see the clinic? Or after you saw the clinic, it was the amount of time you had to wait before your treatment starts?
I have been waiting 3 moths to get to see UCLH I hope I won't have to wait another 6 moths before I can start treatment at CRGH.  

Karenana good idea. I will do that. 

Thank you so much everyone.


----------



## kazzzee (Jul 29, 2014)

Is your NHS round with CRGH? If it is then they have good stats so I'd definitely not bypass them (I actually went to an open evening there last night.) 

For me the timings went something like this: saw my doctor in March 2014. Months of blood tests that I had to have before I could be referred. Finally got referred to the local hospital and first appointment was 1 August. Hysterscopy in October. Started my cycle on 30 December (could have been a month earlier but because of Christmas it was delayed).


----------

