# Fabulous 40's: What to do after a BFN - Support and Chat Part 2



## Mish3434

NEW HOME LADIES!  

*Please take a moment to review the Site Guidelines, particularly with regards to pregnancy and parenting* chat: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=260253.0

Babydust to all on their journey's, praying you are all successful and when you are here is the link for the over 40's PAPAI area:

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=164.0

Love and babydust to you all

Shelley xx


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## deblovescats

Good luck in our new home girls! 
Had one of those days! Kirsty - my appointment's on 30th May, so just over 2 weeks now, counting down, can't wait to get started again. I'm off to GPs tomorrow to try and track down the blood test form as GP will be in. Ongoing saga of desks - none arriving yet! were promised 10.15 this morning - no sign of them. I went out on my visits and then got a message to say mother in A&E - she'd had a fall over the back door step - was rushing to bring in washing after it started raining! I said next time just leave it! So needless to say, I spent the pm in A&E with her - she's got bruised knees, no breaks, but has a badly cut little finger - had to have it stitched, now in bandages! Nightmare! She's ok in herself, just shaken up,. Timmy is fine today - got over teh shock of his nightmare I think! 
Deb


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## Sushi Lover

*Re the Endometrial Scratch*.... it's for women that have had repeated IVF failures, despite having apparently good quality embryos. It's been shown in several studies to improve (even double) the implantation rate in women who have had repeated failures. The studies say endometrial injury increases the production of white blood cells which secrete 'growth factors' and immune system cells which in turn control embryo implantation and can make the lining more receptive to the embryos burrowing in.

It was £250 and I thought I might as well give it a try. They literally do scratch the surface of the uterus in 4 or 5 places to encourage the lining to regenerate.

Interesting concept!

xxx


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## bernie1971

Hey just a quick hello so that I am part of this thread too. Have to run but will write more later. Still feeling weird. Thanks for the input on the hysto. Hope everyone is doing ok. MJ - another wedding! woohoo! When is your date?


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## MJ1

Hi Bernie,
Well that is the million dollar question what with not knowing when we will get matched. We are aiming for August 2014 it will be a weekday and we are not precious about date so fairly flex, think you have to be in this game, been a long time coming and put it off for 4 1/2 years trying to convcieve!
Love to all have a good day
MJ1 xx


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## MJ1

Ella, I feel your pain and can relate to everything you say. We had a year out last year and switched off, had a much needed holiday and enjoyed life again. It is easy to forget the good things you do have as you become so absorbed with it all. 
Keep strong and wish you lots of natural baby luck.
Love MJ xx


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## Chandlerino

Just posting to bookmark.

I read everyday and follow your journeys. Mine is at a standstill treatment wise but still hoping for that natural miracle and using cbfm.

Lots of baby dust to you all

Chand xxx


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## bernie1971

Ella, I also feel your pain and have gone through periods where I have thought similar thoughts to yours. I find it ironic that whilst we are so desperately trying to create a new life we somehow stop living our own life. I wish it were possible to explain how it all feels - the intense hoping, the disappointments - to people who haven't gone through it themselves.

That's all for now.

Love to you all and thanks for making me feel less lonely on this journey.


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## Moominmum

Hi All,

Just posting to bookmark. Will write tomorrow.

Thank you everyone for your kind and welcome support last week. One more week to go for me.

Moominmum    

 to all


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## hopeful68

Hi all,
Chand: i know where you are at (bad grammer i know sorry!!). we are sticking to our one shot policy and although i think my head 80-90% accepts this the other bit is hoping for a miracle or toying with another round!! DH is probably at 60% acceptance so a bit of time still need for him!....at the end of the day we left it too late and have to live with it and try not to regret it. live happens the way it does for a reason!

about to get ready for work, will post again later. sorry it is all short and not real personals....... hope you have a good w/end all.


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## Chandlerino

My problem is dh doesn't get the age thing and thinks if we keep trying then it will happen. I don't think he takes in what I tell him sometimes, actually I think he switches off......

Just had my Fsh and lh retested and he said I don't know why you bothered. Uh because I want know if I'm peri menopausal you idiot!

Anyway Fsh was 8 and lh 7 prolactin, estradiol and tsh all normal range. Still can't a bfp though.

Chand xx


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## fififi

Oooops I'd lost you for a while - thought it was odd that no-one was posting!

Having located thread now no time to post but wanted to send hugs to all & wish Ella (if she sees this) lots of luck & happiness as she regains life.

Things ticking by here. Still hoping, like few others, for that natural miracle. On wait list for final IVf try this time with DE.


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## hopeful68

I think my Dh 'gets' the fact i am too old, but he just cant accept it. we cant get heads around donor issues or adoption - perhaps we are too selfish for that deep down  - not really sure. keen to move on but still hoping for a miracle - which hasnt happened in 9yrs so why would it now!!!! as others have said, life is on hold during treatment and the post failure mourning period, but does anyone else feel guilty about trying to 'get on with things' and spending money that you then think 'i could have put that towards another cycle' - not that i have gone mad - £185 on a ferry ticket to france, so it wouldnt get my a blinkin blood test let alone a cycle!!  it is difficult to cut the hope off all together. some days i wish i had never even tried IVF knowing now the way it mucks you up after. couldn't go through it again unless there was a 100% guarentee (and i had the money!!) and you dont get that. In a contemplative mood today - just finished a set of ambulance shifts that have reminded me of how lucky i am with my situation, life, health, family etc....... hope you stay warm and dry today - mucky drizzle here today!


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## LellyLupin

There you all are - doh forgot we had a new home and thought you'd all gone on holiday or something  

Hopeful I am totally on your page.  Have sent off for Serum tests - don't really know why as I have already been told I am too old.  Tried moving on and that didn't go well, then had a few 'baby' moments seeing all the families out in the sun today, especially a new mum feeding her baby girl.  I think part of my problem is I just don't feel old and have to keep reminding myself just how old I am - sigh.  I remember saying to DP lets just have one try at ivf   it just gets a hold of you and turns into an obsession to beat the odds.  I am sure you must thank your lucky stars when you see people suffering - maybeIi need a job like that to give me a kick up the   when I am feeling sorry for myself and my situation.  So you are going to France - I absolutely love France keep dropping hints to DP about going there, hope you have a fab time.xx

Debs - oh no your poor Mum, they are such a worry as they get older.  Good job shes got you to look after her.  Can't belive you still haven't got your desks, thats ridiculous. Glad timmy is ok now xx

Hello to Chandler nice to see your name, as you were one of the first people I spoke to on here  I really hope you get your natual BFP xx

Hi to Bernie  hope you are doing ok xx

Hi to Feefs and Kirst xx

Ella we all understand how you feel  ,  I wish I could make the same decision and move on as I feel my life is on hold too - as do probably all of us on here.  Taking the baby issue out of the picure,  I think that we all probably have fab lives when we really sit back and look at it.  I wish you all the luck in the world Ella and hope that you can move on and be happy with your life as it is. The one good thing we both have in our lives are the horses, they give us so much and there is nothing like a good gallop to lift the spirits even if it is temporary.  Take care Ella and pop in if you feel ok enough too xx  Quick note on Toby the lady who was taking him has backed out now, so I still have him to ride.  He is being a good boy and we have been having some good gallops out, I think I have my mojo back and am feeling a lot less nervous on him. xx

MJ how are the wedding plans going?  DP and I went to a Wedding Fayre last weekend.  First one after a 10 year engagement    We had a hoot as DP has already been married twice so we had the stall holders in stitches with jokes about it.  We felt a bit like fish out of water and thought that people would think we were there cos our daughter or son must be getting married    I think we are classed as vintage now   

Moomin how are you feeling?  Is it one more week to your scan?  

Anyway girls hope I haven't missed anyone, signing off now to have a sneaky spend on ebay    Love to you all xx


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## hopeful68

unfortunately lesley, i didnt get to france as i ended up nursing my dog through his labrynthitis/vertigo. DH went though!!!!!! that would have been our first holiday since failed IVF so i really needed it. ahhhh well, dog needed me more! tired today, short w/end (1 day) and back to work, going to be a long week!!

hope you all have a good week. take care, Michelle


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## Sushi Lover

Hi girls,

*Ella*... sorry you are feeling so low and exhausted. We really all have been through the same thing at certain points in our journey and do understand. I hope you are feeling brighter again soon. We all put our lives on hold through this horrid process and it takes so much willpower and strength to say 'enough is enough, I want my life back' ... so I admire you for that. I hope you can find another way of achieving your dream of being a Mum in the future, but in the meantime, take care of yourself, have some nice holidays, drink some good wine, enjoy your lovely horse and have some quality, romantic time with your other half. 

*MJ*.... let us know if you need a collection of hormonal 40-something bridesmaids!  Any news about the waiting list yet? Sorry, so many people are probably asking you at mom, must be frustrating!

*Bernie*.... I think it really helps sharing our stories with other ladies going through this horrible TTC process.. and it does make you feel less lonely.. you are right. What are your next steps hun?

*Moomin*... how are you feeling? Not long to go until you are over that 12 week barrier and scan right? Sorry, I've lost track of your dates!

*Michelle*.... DH went away without you again hun?! Poor you! I can understand that doggie needed you more, but it's still a bummer. I hope you manage to get away soon. Sometimes I think that about wishing I'd never started IVF as well.. I'd be a lot richer that's for sure! Then I think, no, I would have always regretted it if I hadn't have tried. So c'est la vie. Thanks for reminding us about how lucky we are... you must see some horrendous sights being a paramedic, so we are all lucky.

*Chand*.... it makes it even more annoying sometimes when all your bloods are fine and there is no apparent reason why you cannot fall... apart from age! Grrrhhh. And now Caprice is pregnant with her first baby at 41 and is going on about trying for "a whole year", like it's about 10 years. Makes me mad! She should try going through what we've all been through.

*Lesley*.... I'm pleased you sent your sample to Serum, I did the same. It's definitely worth it as if you go for DE in the future there will be no reason for it not to work if you've cleared up any old infection beforehand. You are not too old. You really don't sound ready to move on hun... so please don't force yourself as it will make you even more sad. You can only move on when you are truly ready. I hope you had a lovely spend up on Ebay!

Hi *Fifi, Debs, Ronnie, CoolJules* and every one else reading.  to all.

*AFM*... started my Gonal F injections... first proper scan on Wednesday. Nervous!

xx


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## MJ1

Hi all,

Have seen a couple of posts re Wedding and wait lists....

*Kirsty & Lesley*, that made me chuckle re the hormonal bridesmaids . We went to our Wedding venue on Saturday to discuss bits and bobs, a bit premature I know for next August but it takes my mind off other things.

As for wait list, I haven't called for an update since the beginning of the month so not sure. I am off to see my GP on Friday to hopefully get my re-test of thyroid antibodies fingers crossed she will do it and then the results will go to Lister. Then see where we go from there.

Good luck with your scan on Wed hun.. so exciting, although I don't miss miss the injection part that is for sure. Hope they are not too painful.

 did arrive on Saturday so we declined the Christening yesterday, just some things that I don't want to do anymore...

at work so must fly, hope everyone else is ok 
MJ xxxx


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## LellyLupin

Michelle you are just not destined to have a holiday are you?    What a shame but you did the right thing, the puppy needs you more nd you would only have worried about him.  How is he doing now?  My favourite place in France is the Louvre, there is just something magical about the place, even if I did get told off for taking pictures of the big horsey paintings    

Good luck for Thursday Kirsty, this could be the one for you exciting huh?  When did you send your sample to Serum, I have an awful feeling mine has been lost in the post as I have heard nothing   That would mean waiting for another AF Grrr.  I did have a bit of a spend on Ebay 2 new riding tops,  2 new pairs of jodhpurs and a dress    Don't know why I bought a dress I never go anywhere  

MJ have you got your dress yet?  If so what style have you gone for?    I have my eye on a really nice one and I have been glued to Don't tell the bride    With you on the Christening avoidance, I am due to go to my friends in September, think i will be away that weekend


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## bernie1971

MJ1 - also with you regarding Christening avoidance. Why put oneself through the pain... it is YOUR life and your decision!

Thanks for all the nice messages, guys. I am feeling quite low. Had a chat with my gyno regarding FET and transferring 2 embies, which was going to be my next step, so I thought... but she strongly advises against transferring more than one, because of the risk of a twin pregnancy and the unknown factor of how my uterus would cope with it. Due to my operations it is not clear if it is flexible enough to expand accordingly. She claims there is a risk of possible bladder rupture and the like .... aaaaaah help....  ... so really not sure where I stand right now. The idea of doing four more FETs, every time with such low chances of success, just fills me with dread. I don't know if I can handle it and find the necessary positive attitude and HOPE. 

I had considered SERUM, but it makes no sense before I've tried with the remaining frosties and plus I am not sure if they would even be able to improve my chances. If so, how?

Oh well, will have a hysto in any case, just to get the feeling that I am doing something of use, and see what that shows. Next FET in August or so, so that I can get married and have the honeymoon without stress...

The wedding is stressing me out as well. Not for the usual reasons - but because a lot of people who initially said they would come have now cancelled. We are getting married in a different country to where we live and it is not cheap... we have worked hard at organising a nice party and we don't want the majority of the guests to be my DP's rather boring relatives...  The last thing I need is for people to just cancel like that... I do understand that they all have their own lives etc. I just don't need this right now.

That's all!!!!
Thanks for listening!!!!


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## Sushi Lover

*MJ*..... I don't blame you going to the wedding venue and sorting some bits out! It's something fun and nice to do and really must take your mind off TTC. I'd just be happy if my DP could sort his divorce out... but the witch won't agree to it. So depressing. Good luck with GP appt on Friday and thanks for the good wishes re my scan. I'm apprehensive as it's our last try, but excited as well. My injections this time are the Gonal F pen.. so it's pre-loaded and you turn the dial to the correct number and push the button at the end of the pen until it's all in. No mixing, no syringes, no swapping needles over, no broken vials and no DP swearing about glass in his thumb! It's a lot less stressful. We've booked to go to Ibiza (relaxing part, not clubbing!) in June for 10 days after the treatment. So it's something to look forward to at least if I get another BFN  ..... but I'm not thinking that... will get a BFP  !!!

*Lesley*..... I'm hoping and praying it's my turn hun. I sent my AF sample on Friday and emailed Serum to tell them... they replied saying they will look out for it and email me when it arrived. I think it will take 3 - 5 days. I really hope yours hadn't been lost. When did you send it? Oooh, retail therapy, lovely. You made me laugh about the dress. DP will have to take you out for a nice dinner now you have a new dress (or haven't you told him?! haha)

*Bernie*... what a nightmare you are having at the moment. That is so bad people are now cancelling who said they'd originally come to the wedding. What is wrong with people? I'd be so cross. These are your friends and family I take it? I know the thought of a single FET sounds rubbish, but your gynae wouldn't recommend that unless she thought it was 100% necessary. What with the possible medical complications it's not worth the huge risk. Bladder rupture is massively serious hun. One of those eggs may be 'the one'... so transferring them all separately or as two pairs will have the same chances technically. You have to be sensible and not risk your health. I know four more transfers is time-consuming and stressful... so I feel for you. I'm sure you can find the strength and hope to get through it. 

xxx


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## LellyLupin

I give up - just got confirmation that Serum have received my sample,  and now DP is saying do we really want to go ahead and have the tests!  I am sure hes trying to send me round the twist.  It was him who said have them done otherwise, I wouldn't have sent the sample off in the first place  Now he is saying its up to me to decide    Thanks a lot DP!

Aw Bernie I feel for you.    wedding planning is hugely stressful, especially on top of feeling so dowm.  I would go with what your gynae says to be on the safe side, I do understand your frustration though xx

Kirsty nope he doesn't know about the dress or about my secret Ebay addiction    I usually say 'oh this old thing, I've had it for ages'  or 'I say well I don't drink, smoke or go out so I am entitled to have a spend' and that shuts him up.  If I am being particularly evil I just mention how much maintenance we pay for his kids    

You will get a BFP Kirsty I just know you will xx


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## deblovescats

how frustrating bernie when people cancel and you're trying to give them (as well as you) a lovely experience. At least you'll enjoy it with people you know want to be there. How exciting! Something to look forward to. And single FETs can work so don't give up hope - you need to take advice of consultant and not put yourself or potential baby at risk! 
bet you're tearing your hair out lesley - grrr! You do what you need to do. 
good luck with scan kirsty - you'll get there, I know it! I think we all deserve it! 
AFM - went off to path lab at hospital for my blood tests - no questions asked so all went smoothly, just waiting for the tests to come back and then I need to ask GP surgery to print off test results so i can take them to clinic appt on thurs. I'm so counting down now, it's been a way off before but now just over a week. I've had the usual questions from colleagues who are curious as to why I'm booking an odd day off - rather than a few days or a week, so I've had to blag it - sort of said i had a medical appointment and then got stuff to do - i know they don't mean to be nosy, just interested in what everyone does on days off, but i'm not ready to talk about my plans at this stage. I know if i do i'll get the questions/comments about doing it alone and my age - but at the end of the day, it's my choice. One good thing about being single - i can choose to go ahead or not as i like - dont have any partners issues to take into account (That's just me trying to talk myself up positive for being a single mum by choice!)
Good lucky guys
Deb


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## Moominmum

Sorry for a short me post. Sitting at the hospital after just having had confirmed that it's all disappeared.  Poff! 4th time in 2 years. I'm over and out. I'm gonna go shopping, massively drink Prosecco. And cry.

Will come back later. When I'm human again.

Please, please wonderful ladies - let me see lots of BFPs now!

Moominmum


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## hopeful68

OOHHH Moomin, SO SORRY  . gutted for you. hope you have a good cry and get most of it out of your system early. i hope you can recover from this quickly - both physically and emotionally. i know where you are - so do most of us i think..... come back when you are ready.


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## fififi

Moom - so, so sorry. Don't know what to say except to let you know I'm writing this full of tears. Had really thought this was your time    
Wish there was something could do to change things. Here if want to talk whenever u need. Hope u & DH taking care of each other x


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## LellyLupin

Moomin I'm so sorry, I so hoped for the best for you.  I know there is nothing we can say, just really letting you know we all care and are here when you need us xxxx 

Debs you do want you want and makes you happy  , if it weren't for my DP I'd have had children years ago,  so good for you girl!  You won't regret it when that baby is in your arms and we will let you moan about sleepless nights I  promise xx

AFM I paid for the tests so lets see what they say.


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## deblovescats

so so sorry moomin - i was so hoping ... you cry and get it out of your system, we're all here for you, we've all been there! 
thanks for the support lesley - i know i'm doing the right thing, if i didn't try, i'd regret it! I suppose it's better to do it on my own, than be with the wrong guy. I think some out there in the media think we single women have been selfish and put careers first, but that's not it in lots of cases, i just haven't met anyone i wanted to share my life with! You never know, if it works out, i might even then meet a guy who wants a family! (I can fantasise anyway!)
Work's been manic. This morning was hard - i had to give a talk to a baby group - on sleep, and weaning - so so hard! I was watching the new mums and their babies and having to say all the right things ... I so hope that this will be all of us sometime, maybe next year! 
I'm on definite countdown now, a week tomorrow i'm off for my appt. 
Glad it's the Bank Holiday next week - short week! 
Deb


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## MJ1

Moominmum


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## bernie1971

Moomin, so very sorry. Thinking of you and don't forget that you are not alone.


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## Sushi Lover

Oh *Moomin*,... Nooooooooooooo. I'm so terribly sorry to read your post and hear the news. I had tears in my eyes like Fifi. I was so hoping this would be your time. 

xxx


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## Ronnie3007

*Moomin* I am so sorry to hear your sad news ... Sending you a big  and loads of strength to recover from this .... Don't stay away too long hun xxxxxxxxxxx


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## Chandlerino

Moomin, sending you   Chand xx


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## Moominmum

Just a quick THANK YOU lovely ladies for your thoughts. Means so much to me.    

I am having a quiet weekend (with lots of ice cream) on my own to recover physically and mentally.

For all of you about to start your tx or in the middle of a tx - extra   to you!

   to all.

Moominmum


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## Mish3434

Moomin, So very sorry hun xxx


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## Ronnie3007

*Moomin* Enjoy your icecream and make sure you take time out to recover from this to regain your strength. 

*AFM* AF still no where in sight, I hate this getting older phase. Have had a pain in my lower left side for a week now and am feeling yuk every morning. No hot flushes but nipples are sore, also noticing I am getting worn out halfway round during the dog walk every time. In my mind I wish it would be down to a miracle, that maybe when they went in 4 weeks ago to remove the clips that they pulled at them first before giving up and that it might have opened up slightly. I know wishful thinking, how wonderful would that be tho 

Well if no AF by Saturday off to the shops I go to buy a pee stick. Yeah right lol, my life is never that easy 

Hope you are all enjoying your bank holiday weekend. In Germany today we have had rain rain and more rain today, how depressing. Makes a change for UK to have the better weather lol. Have a good one


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## Sushi Lover

Just dropping in to see how Moomin is after the weekend?  I hope the peacefulness and ice-cream helped in some way.

Take care  xxx


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## Ronnie3007

YEYYYYY AF has arrived  .  Hope you all had a great weekend


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## LellyLupin

Hi girl just popped on to say I got my test results from Serum.  Negative for chlamydia,  postive for Proteous, so I guess that could be one of the reasons I didn't conceive.  What to do next  

Ronnie glad AF came can't use    

Hope everyone is ok.

Moomin hope you feeling a bit better


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## Sushi Lover

*Ronnie*.... So glad AF arrived at long last!

*Lesley*.....what is proteous? Presumably an infection of some sort, but I haven't heard of it. Did you chat with them/Penny about it? Have they sent you a prescription for antibiotics?

How is everyone else doing? Any news? Hopefully the weekend will be a sunny one!

*AFM*..... They collected 9 eggs yesterday and the call today was to tell me 6 had fertilised. Last time must have been some kind of freak cycle with the 20 eggs?! I'm praying it's quality over quantity this time around. The embryos are now in the EEVA machine ... Will know more tomorrow.... So nerve-racking. It gets harder the more you do it! Not easier!

xxx


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## MJ1

Great news Kirsty   xx


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## Moominmum

A quick note to *Kirsty* to say congrats! Very exciting! I'm keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you.


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## Moominmum

And also a quick note and massive *THANK YOU* to everyone for all your kind words. I am back in business again after a stressful week trying to sort myself out. With my track record now I can have some tests done using my insurance which is something good at least...

   to all.


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## LellyLupin

Hi Kirsty fab news about your eggs    Fascinated re the EEVA machine it was in the paper today and my Mum read it out - so exciting.  The Proteus bug is harmless so no treatment needed.  you should have your results soon xx

Spoke to MIL for the first time in 5 weeks, she said I have broken her heart not telling her about my ivf.  Hmm well guess what her son broke mine by having a vasectomy and not telling me - I can't deal with her at the moment I have enough of my own demons to cope with. 2am and still up, just can't sleep tonight.


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## Sushi Lover

*MJ*, *Lesley* and *Moomin*... Thanks ladies for all the good wishes, fairy dust, prayers and luck!

Today I've had three 8-cell embies transferred on day3! EEVA showed just one of the six is high enough quality to have potential to develop into a baby (I'll take that!) The other 5 were 'low'.... It works it out so precisely using hi-tech software that times how many hours cleavage of the embryos takes. So, for example it should take 9 hours to divide from 4 into 8 cells.... One of my 3 transferred was textbook, the other 2 took 10 and 11 hours. So there's nothing to say these won't progress, just that the division wasn't perfect timing and EEVA marks them lower because of this. Out of the other 3, one hasn't progressed from a 2-cell and the others are 9 and 10 cell embryos, so have divided too quickly. EEVA will still continue to assess these as they could potentially be frozen.

Anyway, interesting stuff! I'm not disappointed to see the EEVA results, one in six... It's just good to know for sure the quality of my 41 year-old eggs. We've already decided to move to DE after this, so this info kind of 'backs up' our plan. I'm obviously still hoping and praying this works. Maybe that one perfect 'EEVA' embryo will take. We'll have to call her Eva clearly! 

*Moomin*... Glad you are feeling a bit more back on track. Great that the insurance will pay for your tests, I hope they find something out that is useful to you for your next steps.

*Lesley*.... I decided not to proceed with Serum tests in the end. I spoke to my consultant about it and he couldn't see any real value in spending the extra money. He is Greek and says it sounds credible on paper that this could be an issue, but there are no proper investigations or papers/reports written about hidden uterine infections (either in US or UK) so he advised me to spend my money on more proven theories. Also I was up against it re timing for this cycle as well. I may still go ahead with it another time when outgoings are less! What with the endo scratch, uterine wash, embryo glue and intralipids I really felt my money was best spent on them. I still think that there maybe is something in it, but whilst I'm having treatment decided to stick with what my consultant advised me to do. Penny's hysto sounds more effective to me.... Cooljules had a lot of white tissue removed to reveal newer, pinker skin. I can really see the benefit with this. As for MiL...is it all about her or what?! What she felt, how hurt she was,her heart was broken!.. Unbelievable...Not thinking of you at all Les. Sounds quite a selfish woman. Try to put her out of your mind. You don't need it! P.s.my Mum did the same with the newspaper article! 

X


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## Coolish

Congrats on the transfer Kirsty!

Just to say that the tissue I had removed in the hysto was due to the hidden c infection that I had.


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## Moominmum

Oh how exciting *Kirsty* - well done! 

*Lesley*, your MIL seems to be someone to avoid for now. I don't think there is any point in even trying to talk to her at the moments. You take care of yourself and avoid anyone that makes you unhappy. On another note though, how is Mike/Shelly?? 

AFM, I am not sure if the test that I can have on my insurance will give me anything but it is a way to move on. It was interesting having a chat with the consultant (who will also discuss the results of the tests with me). Instead of being a fertility consultant she deals with pregnancies and recurrent mcs, and she viewed my history slightly differently than the IVF clinic we went to. It seems as if it is the kind of approach that Serum (and other clinics?) seems to take from what I have read from you girls, where you do tests first to see if there is anything hindering a healthy pregnancy before you go on with the fertility treatment.

Anyway, hope you all have enjoyed some lovely weather over the weekend!

 to all!


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## deblovescats

hi everyone
hope you're doing well jules! 
lesley - best thing is to ignore your MIL - you don't need any comments such as she makes! 
good luck for 2WW kirsty - great news on the embies
glad you're back on track moomin
AFM - I've not been posting for a few days as the day after I had my full day at the clinic, i came down with a cold which has progresssed to a chest infection - so not feeling top form! At least should be getting it out of the way for my holiday in a couple of weeks.! 
I had a very tiring day - appt with Consultant, Counsellor and Specialist Donor Nurse plus scan. At least it just involved one day off work. 
I felt positive about the clinic so i've signed up to go on waiting list. At least the consultant spent almost an hour reviewing my medical history etc which is more than the other clinic did - i was worried about bmi as i know i need to lose some weight, but the nurse said my bmi fitted their criteria, the consultant just suggested trying to lose 1/2 to 1 stone which i'm going to go at with a vengeance! The counsellor was fine and okayed it all. It made it seem more real as with the donor nurse went through the criteria i want for donor. They said there is not really a waiting list, but might be 2-3 months to get matched as going through the matching process/tests etc. I got all my blood tests sorted finally. While in Sheffield, my sister phoned me to say surgery had rung with the other results! So i passed them verbally to the nurse and am going to forward the paper copy on in the post The results were all fine. The nurse is going to check with consultant that the fibroids are ok and to check that i don't need a hysteroscopy first. My GP said she would refer me on NHS if i need it. She did not notice a problem with the ?septum so fingers crossed. She said that the uterine lining was 5.2 which was good at this point in cycle and showed potential for buillding when start on medication. I'm getting excited now and raring to go.
Good luck to everyone
Deb


----------



## ajw

Hi girls,
Sorry for being absent for so long again. Been really busy with work and had other health issues which have got in the way of my fertility journey.  

Just wanted to send big hugs to Moomin    . I'm so sorry honey. It's heart breaking isn't it. We all wanted it to work for you sooooooooooo much!!! I agree, we need some positive news on here to give us some hope.

Kirsty, pleased to see that you're doing well again.   Fingers crossed that that strong embie makes it through.   

Lesley I really admire you! With a MIL like that and a DH who keeps changing his mind, I think I'd be in the loony bin by now!   

AFM, my breast biopsy last month came back showing pre-cancerous cells, so I had surgery last week. A lumpectomy to remove micro-calcifications, a fibroadenoma AND a hematoma caused by the bloody biopsy!
Luckily my surgeon is also a plastic sugeon, so cosmetically he's done a great job.    Phew! Now I just need to wait for 12th June to get the results. (Even worse that a 2ww) If they find cancer I'll need radiotherapy, etc, so I fear I will have to accept that my ivf journey has come to an end   , but I'm really hoping that won't be the case.     There's only a 15% chance of them finding cancer according to the surgeon, so I've decided it's my turn for a bit of luck now...

I also had another mri to check on my endometriosis and they found that it had shrunk  , but they also found some small fibroids  , so I'm not sure what that means  . Never had fibroids before. Does anyone know their effect on fertility? Would I have to have them removed before doing another cycle? How do they remove them? I'm going for an ultrasound to examine them in more detail, so I guess I'll find out more then, but I was so surprised about it at my initial appointment that I didn't ask the right questions.

Deb, it sounds like you have similar issues. It would be helpful to hear what they've said to you if you have any info that could enlighten me? By the way, which clinic are you going with for DE? Sorry, but it's so long since I was on I haven't had time to read all the posts. Really hope it goes well for you. 

Another thing keeping me busy - we've set the ball rolling for adoption, even though we're not quite there yet.   It takes so long over here (3-5 years), that we thought we'd better get our names on the list. We went for an info evening last week and it was really depressing.   There are so few kids out there and 50% of those adopted last year had health problems. Also, we were told that if you're single or 45 you can forget it!    So unfair! Think we might have to move back to England. Seems easier there! Anyway, we won't be put off, as if we don't apply we'll have no chance at all, so I figure a slim chance is better than none. And it looks like I'll be joining a couple of you ladies in planning my wedding,   as our chances will improve drastically if we're hitched (have been engaged since 2011, but like most, have delayed the wedding due to ivf).

Wishing you all a good week and good luck in your tests, treatment, natural attempts...

Ajw


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi girls,

*Cooljules*... oh that's really interesting. I really think there is something in the infection testing... just my consultant put me off a bit. It's something I'll look at next for definite if I'm unsuccessful this time. I was trying to rush and get it done to close to my treatment when I should have planned it better during my 3 month break. How is your pregnancy going?

*Moomin*.... Thank you! I don't know what to do with myself now! I'm at work as have a quiet week and my diary is pretty clear. I'll only be tempted to sunbathe at home and will worry the overheating isn't a good thing? That consultation you had sounds great. A different approach can't do any harm. Best of luck.

*Debs*... hiya, thanks a lot. It's going to be a long 2 weeks as always. Great news that you are on the waiting list... and a short one at that!

*ajw*... Hey, welcome back stranger. I just need one strong one... surely it can't be that difficult?! You've really been through the mill with your health issues, poor you. I hope the lumpectomy is successful and of course, its pleasing to know that aesthetically all looks good! Goodness, that wait until you hear the news must be thousands of times worse than the 2WW. I feel a bit of fraud even thinking it's tough when I hear your story. We will all pray the tests come back negative hun  Fibroids can impede implantation if they are on the larger size or there are many of them. Typical that the endometriosis has improved, but now you have these instead. If they are small should be fine. Do you know how many? They remove them during a hystoroscopy.... cut them away. Probably best to get rid of them before starting anymore IVF. That's lovely to hear you've set about looking at adoption... whereabouts are you? That is such a long while. I wish you so much luck and hope for everything you are going through... you have so much going on 

xxx


----------



## bernie1971

Hi everyone, have been away for a bit, also because of an interesting thread I started elsewhere which turned into a major discussion and I felt a bit overwhelmed. 
Here it is - http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=307163.0

Anyway, AJW, that sounds awful. I really feel for you. I think it is your turn to have some good luck here!!!

Good luck Debs!! And Moomin, you sound really positive, that's good.

AFM, mulling over things... I am not happy with the attitude my current clinic has taken and considering trying Serum. However, I guess I have to stick with my current clinic for the FETs with my remaining embies... what are your views on this?

xxx

B-1971


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## deblovescats

hi guys
aj - good luck with the results of your biopsy, you're really having a tough time. I hope things work out for you. I have 2 small fibroids evidently - my last clinic said that where they were would not affect implantation, but I think it depends on the size and location. I'm at Care Sheffield this time - the nurse said she will check with the consultant to see if i need them sorting before progressing with treatment, and she said i could do this while waiting for a match, if necessary, but it might be fine. Mine are sub-serosal fibroids, which evidently means they're on the outside of the uterus, sub mucosal ones are inside, which tend to affect implantation more as they are on the inside lining. I'm just waiting now to find out. Feel like i don't need any more issues, but i know there are people worse off than myself.
My holiday is a Mediterranean cruise, but wouldn't you know it - worried about trip to Istanbul due to riots - hoping they've got it out of their system before we go! Typical
I'm feeling a bit tired tonight but better than i was over the weekend.
Good luck kirsty - thinking of you.
Deb


----------



## ajw

Bernie, have you tried a scratch in your cycle before transfer? If it's a problem of implantation that might help?
My gyn wants to try that if I ever get to do another cycle. 

Deb, it seems like removing the fibroids wouldn't be a major thing then, if you could do it while waiting for a match. I was worried I might have to waste time recovering for a long time after the op. I've got an appointment 1st July so I should know more then. Hope you get to see Istanbul. It's great. That's where my DP proposed to me!

AFM still stressing, waiting for my results. Feeling guilty that I'm not working, as I don't feel that sick. Still in a bit of pain, but nothing too bad.

ajw


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## Sushi Lover

*Bernie*...goodness, I read the other thread and it did get a bit heated to say the least! Are you ok? It sounded pretty upsetting with all the judgemental comments coming your way. Selection reduction is always a difficult discussion to have, especially on forums like this. People have quite strong views about it to say the least. How many frosties do you have ? I'm not sure if you can 'transfer' your frozen embryos to another clinic for transferral. Have a look at the FET thread, there is lots of info on there.

*Deb*..... thanks for the good luck wishes and roll on your holiday!

*ajw*... when do you get your results hun? That's the problem with us English...we feel guilty having time off from work unless we are bedridden! The rest of world takes time off for the common cold because it's rude to potentially spread germs to your colleagues and yet we haul ourselves in or worry with the guilt of having time off. Silly isn't it! I think as you're in pain you have more than a good enough reason to be at home. Try not to be too anxious about work... it's only work at the end of the day!

How is everyone else doing? Our thread has gone a bit quiet so either everyone is fed up or content at mom?!

*AFM*.... 5dpt my 3 day transfer. Had mild AF-type pains all week, but nothing else to report. Trying not to do the anxious symptom spotting thing, but it's so hard! I'm tired, but nothing new there!

xx


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## deblovescats

kirsty - try and have a relaxing weekend! You deserve it. I agree with you kirsty about us English being bad at taking time off unless we're at death's door! My sister who works as cabin crew has a funny story about a Spanish crew member - she evidently went in the rest area on board at the start of the flight, saying she was very tired, slept through the flight instead of working, then did the same on the way back. She managed this on several trips, until finally the CSD (in charge on board) challenged her and said 'Are you ill?' No was the reply, just tired. In that case, you either work or I sign you off as sick! Needless to say, the Spanish girl soon started working properly. Some people just try it on! 
Weather sunny here.
bernie - i saw the thread as well, and sorry some of the comments appeared hostile - i suppose it's difficult territory to discuss, but we need to support each other. I think this thread is very supportive! 
AFM - had a totally manic week! ONly another week then off on holiday. Tomorrow shopping for last minute items including a new case! Then have to fit packing in as well as work! My aunt's coming to look after my little fur babies as they do 'not do' catteries! My darling Timmy was so withdrawn the only time he went in, we think he thought he was back in the rescue centre! So he now gets cared for in his own home by relatives! Then I'm on countdown - just waiting for a call about a potential donor, I think one of the worst aspects of this journey is the waiting - waiting for appointments, waiting for a donor, waiting for ET, 2WW! Does it ever get better?!!!
Deb


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## hopeful68

been a while ladies. been manic at work and enjoying the sun!! 
AJ: fingers crossed but if you get bad news, just know i work with 2 fab ladies who have just survived breast cancer and they are just 40, so stay positive even if your initial news is not great! good luck with the adoption process. i chickened out due to medical issues, i went to an open evening and they LOVED the fact i am a paramedic and i could just see them mentally off-loading all the ill kids on me and felt that, actually when i come home from work, if i get a family i want a normal family and couldnt get my head round it all. that and the mental health issues linked to abuse, neglect and the feeling of 'not being loved'  mucking you up..... not for me - especially as i have referred kids to social services and have no doubt they are now fostered or up for adoption, knowing where they came from..... i cant do it, not sure i could bond - but that is just me, not generally a gushing, loving person, takes a while to get to know me.....! fingers crossed on all counts for you.

Moomin: glad you seem to be handling things so well - i am amazed you are back here so soon. i cant express - in an non censored way- how sorry i am for you. but you seem to have a plan to move forward and that gives focus and drags you from what ever 'down' time you may have been heading towards!

Lesley: sorry to hear about MIL. sometime standing up and saying 'do you know what, i hurt too. and probably more than you will ever know' can have a massive effect. it might create a scene at the time but at least everything gets out in the open and everyone knows how raw each others emotions are! i am sure it can be resovled......if you can be bothered with someone so incensitive!!

AFM: DH is a police special and was on duty last tuesday and came back having had a heat to heart with the PC he was on duty with and suggested we go abroad for eggs - now confused again!!! not had any further discussion but head ticking away. work - BUSY. will be glad to have my week on the ambulances next week - a week away from the office!! however when i get back in the office on the 17th my in box will be bursting - kept getting microsoft messages this week saying 'in box too full' spent most of the week deleting stuff!! doggie hanging on in there. Dad making me very jealous- just gone to the USA and HAWAii for a month. wont be leaving the country until Ollie decides to go for the big sleep! he has bounced back again although his back legs are very wobbly so very short walks!! but he is still happy!!

any hoooo...... it is late, i am tired, so off to bed for me!! catch up soon, take care all. luck, hugs, fairy dust, miracles to us all!!
Michelle


----------



## fififi

Hi all ... sorry not posted for a while but life all been bit fraught at work & then I had total switch off with a holiday to Disneyland which was brill as spending time in a place where everything seems jolly & magical helps you forget all the stuff stressing you out normally. Did lots of "wishing upon a star" so hoping that a little of the magic might have rubbed off and I'll get some positivity back in my life in not too distant future! (Not sure Disney is usually the place to go to wish for a baby but thought it was worth a try  )

Kirsty - can't believe you're PUPO already! How exciting ... really hoping that this is the one         
Make sure you rest where you can and keep those positive vibes heading to that tummy  

ajw - glad you're back chatting with us. Do hope results on the 12th bring good news       - will be thinking of you over next few days as sure the wait for this is really frightning    
I had fibroids removed in February - still not entirely sure how they affect fertility but I have found a huge improvement in AF pains and no longer get spotting in days leading up to AF. My consultant thought they may have been cause of early bleed when had last IVF cycle but never established why that was. Operation to remove them pretty painless (I had it done via hysteroscopy) and felt no discomfort down below afterwards.

deblovescats - hope you find a case okay & then go on to have lovely holiday . What clinic have you moved to? Have you any idea about wait times? Glad you are moving along but agree about frustrations at waiting - we've been on DE wait list about 7 weeks now and it feels like an eternity. Though at same time I'm still bit scared about how I'll feel when clinic does ring with potential donor, which in theory should be sometime in next 4-6 weeks!

moom - hope you're doing ok and feel little more positive knowing that some tests can be done to help clarify a few things. So sad that things have worked out like this for you - you were the first pregnancy I'd heard about that I'd genuinely been excited about in a long time. Keep positive cos there's so many plusses in what you have achieved so am sure there's still a good chance that you will make the dream    

lesley - can't believe your MIL. Really hoping you get some positive people around you soon cos you seriously need a boost. Any progress on persuading DP to have another TX with you? Hugs    

Afraid I've got to go as just seen the time and need to get an early night tonight as been up past midnight all week writing school reports!!!
Hi & big hugs to all those I missed out. Hope you all have enjoyable weekend in the sun


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## artist_mum

hi
Long time since I posted here too.. I have just handed in my final uni work this week so the last few weeks have been a bit manic. All done now, just our final show (it's Art degree) and wait for the results.

Lots to catch up on with you guys...

*moomin* I was so very sorry to read your news on here. You seem to have got yourself together quickly and perhaps as you say this might lead you into some proper explanations for why this is happening. Hope you get the progress you deserve.

*kirsty* Wow! Pupo.. great stuff. Let's hope Eva is bedding in and that's what the AF type pains are. And yes, you must call her Eva! I was really pleased to see you got on so quickly, that's so cool and I wish you all the very best for the 2WW and beyond.

*Lesley* Interesting your results from Serum. What do they propose you take for that infection? Your bloke does change his mind now and again doesn't he?! Good to see you cracking on regardless. And as for your MIL..... she needs to butt out, that's for sure. Just be sure to put yourself first won't you?

*fififi* Good to hear you had a Disney break - they are such magical places to go, I know what you mean about that. also know what you mean about finding positivity.. It does come and go, and I think a lot of us have that cycle of 'down feelings'. Hope yours swing upwards very soon

*ajw* Praying for you. Just a few more days until you find out and I can't imagine how worrying that could be. Stay strong and positive when you can, and get yourself treats when you can't! Bless you, I'm thinking of you and hoping it all comes good.

*deblovecats* I know what you mean about the waiting.... I have been waiting 2 months for AF so i can go ahead with tests. Aargh! Not long til your hols, so at least you know you only have 1 week to wait for that one!

*hopeful* good to read your honesty about the adoption process/kind of kids you may get etc. I have thought about all that at times and I think it's great you are open about your experience. Good luck with your plans, once you both decide on next steps..

*cooljules* Without wanting to sound like a stalker, I do check every now and again to see how you are getting on! Glad to hear things are going OK

hi to *ronnie, mj1, bernie* and anyone else I've missed (sorry if i have!)

AFM Finally finished uni on Wednesday. Have been waiting for AF so i can do the tests with Serum. Penny asked DP to take doxycycline for 6 weeks so he's nearly finished that. The plan is that we go out to serum for hysto once i've been tested. I miscarried on 13 April, had a mini bleed a few weeks later and nothing since. So still waiting. How come AF comes when you don't want and doesn't come when you do! One of the probs with waiting is that it puts flights into the summer holiday pricing bracket which is a lot for Greece. But we will see what happens.

As you can see it is very late O'clock and I've got insomnia for the first time in ages.. the dog and the cats find it odd to see me up now! So off to bed again, love to all

Roxy xx


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## Ronnie3007

Hi Girls I was in UK last week so had limited access to internet.  I am feeling excited but nervous for tomorrow morning, we have our appt with the top man at our Fertility clinic to discuss my next tx.  Praying that my AF does not delay again this month!  Hope you are all well


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## hopeful68

well a bit of a crescendo weekend. i found a clinic in chekezlovakia (really cant spell that today!!) - one advertised on here actually, that does cheaper donor programs and asked DH to have a look. his response after reading - No, i cant do that again. we have had our one go, it didn't happen. we need to move on. 
So i think we have hit our dead end. i was there then he waivered so i pondered again then he got there while i was wavering!! it will take a while but we will learn to enjoy lives without and focus on what we do have. i guess the emotions have been strained even more with the dog taking ill and throwing wobbles since abou th the end of my MC so never really had a time to relax since then.

hope everyone else had a good w/end. those moving on, i hope you had plenty of distractions and had FUN. those still planning journeys, fingers crossed for you!

AJW - only a couple more days and you will have answers. the not knowing is the worst - the 2WW was bad enough. keep us posted so we can celebrate with you or Support you (not that you are going to need that! )

Roxy - glad you finished Uni, i handed all my assignments for year 1 (of 2) a little while ago and booked all my leave for the next year!! really dont know how i am going to fit it all in!!! - apparently it will be worth it in the end - but seriously this is the 4th Uni i have been at in the past 20+ yrs - at what point can i stop studying!!??

fififi - the holiday sounds fab!! just what you need and i hope the wishes come true.

better get on with work..... catch you all later.
M


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## Ronnie3007

Consultant has put me on clomid from 2nd day of cycle this time instead of stimms. We are hoping it will be less aggressive to my ovaries and I might actually produce more than 2 follies. So lots of patience is needed


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## deblovescats

hope you're coping with 2WW kirsty! 
good luck ronnie with your appointment.
My clinic asked me to get blood pressure checked at GP's as it was on the high side at my inital appointment - fortunately, the nurse at the surgery said it's fine. The clinic said it could have been due to anxiety! Also, the nurse from the clinic rang today with feedback about my fibroids. She said the consultant said that they are both small and are on the outside of the uterus at the fundus (the top) so they shouldn't have any impact on implantation. He wants to just monitor. She said if i get good embryos but they don't implant, the consultant will review and may then advise a hysteroscopy, but at this stage, thinks it's fine to go ahead. He has made no mention of a septum in the uterus, so i'm hoping all things are positive. I'm just waiting for a match now, can't wait, feeling good.
Got my suitcase on Sat and now getting packed this week ready for flying to Rome on Sat.
Deb


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## Ronnie3007

*Debs* Sounds like things are moving along for you. Enjoy your time in Rome 

*Kirsty* How you doing?


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## fififi

Hi all...

Ronnie - glad your consultant is trying different approach this time. Will wish for lots of follies for you - or at least one very good one       When do you start cycling?

Deb - good news about fibroids and at least knowing now means you can forget about things (ha, ha!!!) whilst on holiday. Glad you're in positive place again. Have fab holiday and try to switch off for a bit   

Hopeful - sorry that you & DH not quite in same place at same time. Me thinks you're still not accepting that this is the end - though having supposedly had my last cycle nearly 8 months ago I know that just walking away is not at all easy. Not sure how we will ever totally be able to switch off the thought that has plagued our heads for so many years. There are lots of positives to come from accepting a different path - a friend at work one year on is happier than I've ever known her and is loving just booking up holidays, going to spas/days out etc and never needing to worry what time of the month she'll be when that date falls in case there's that million to one chance she's pg. It takes lot of guts to switch paths but there's definitely benefits if you manage it.
Take care of you and if you need support at any time then we're here for you    

Roxy - Congrats on finishing your Art degree & hope you get good results following all the work you've put in.
Glad things moving on again (in theory) TX wise for you but hoping you've given yourself a bit of TLC following MC    . Hope AF comes soon for you so you can do tests & that you get some answers from them    . Do keep us posted.

Kirsty - how are things going your end? Hoping Eva doing well and sending lots of wishes into sky for you        

ajw - hope you're coping okay with waiting. really feel for you not knowing and it being so long until results    

lesley - hi hun, hope things beginning to move upwards for you        

moom - hi & hugs, hope you're coping okay    

mj1 - any news on donor yet? Hoping you're nearing top of list now    

cooljules & bernie - can't read back any further so not able to do personals as such but hope all is well


----------



## MJ1

Morning Ladies,

Sorry it has been a while. We were matched this week! but sadly she wasn't English and I want an English donor. So we are there but not quite. Wedding plans are going well and we saw our venue last Saturday all laid up for another wedding, it looked lovely! Have an appt on Friday afternoon for wedding dress shopping and can't wait! Roll on next August I say.

I also had my Thyroid re-tested and it was back down to 2.19? so not sure why the Lister test came out at 3.26? a month of worry for nothing 

Looking forward to our holidy in August, another cruise, but around Spain this time.

*Kirsty,* how are you doing, wishing you    for this weekend.
*Mooms*, how are you?
*Lelsley*, how are things? 
*Roxy*, well done on your degree 
*Fififi*, your last post was so true, DP and I try and think of the good things that would come from being without children and they do exist, it is just that when you have family around you and babies it all comes flooding back..so hard to move on and so unfair.

At work so must get back to it.
Love MJ1 xxxx


----------



## hopeful68

fififi - just saying thanks!!!!


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi girls,

*Deb*.... I promise I relaxed! haha, it was tough though. You just look around the house and see what needs to be done! Dp doesn't hoover properly, but I can't work out why?! Just doesn't look the same as when I do it. How funny about that Spanish girl. I'm ALWAYS tired! Yes, I agree, so much flipping waiting!

*Hopeful/Michelle*.... so sorry your DP doesn't want to try again. It's so hard to reach the same point at the same time.. and that's not just for fertility treatment! Sometimes we really do have to put everything into perspective and concentrate on what we do have that's good in our lives. I try and think about how lucky I am to have met my DP when I'd gone through a failed marriage and wasted too much time on a man that treated me badly and clearly didn't love me. That I'd rather have him and be happy together than be a loveless marriage that makes me unhappy, but with children. It's tough to get your head around though. We are all grieving a loss of some kind that takes ages to get over. Take care 

*Fififi*... I know! It came around quickly. I've been resting and sleeping a lot, but feel like AF is imminent as I have cramps and backache today. AF due on Thursday and the cyclogest usually doesn't stop it. If I can get past these next few days I'll start feeling a bit more positive again. Having a down day today and feel it hasn't worked again  Thanks for your wishes and prayers. Glad you had a lovely time is Disneyland.. it really is magical and does wonders for the soul. Did your daughter enjoy it?

*Roxy*.... hurrah! Great all your uni work is done. Congrats on that. Nice to hear from you again on here. hahaha, I'm laughing at calling her Eva... but never say never. Hope your AF comes soon so you can get on with the Serum tests. Funny that you want yours to start and I don't want to see mine for at least another 9 months! 02:46?! blimey, you are a night owl!

*Ronnie*... Good luck with your clomid cycle! Is it seen more as a gentle stimulation? I'm ok'ish.. my cramps are worse today and have backache too just like AF is about to start. I'm starting to think it hasn't worked again which is devastating. Won't give up hope until my HPT at the weekend though. Too scared to POAS any earlier! thanks for thinking of me.

*MJ*.... Wow! Great you've been matched. So even though this donor wasn't for you, you are now at the top of the list right? How exciting. Ahh, lovely about your wedding plans. So jealous.. I love weddings. The dress shopping is the best bit... have fun. Good news about your thyroid test as well. Nice and low. A cruise in August will be lovely. We've booked a cheapy holiday to Ibiza (quiet bit, not clubbing!... think I suffer more with actual amnesia than going to Amnesia these days!)... going next Tuesday. So even if I get a BFN can do some recovery time on the beach which will help. Praying I've read the cramps wrongly and I still get my elusive BFP. Thanks for the prayers and positive vibes.

*AFM*.... 9dt 3 day transfer. Will test on Sunday. Just wish these cramps and backaches would stop! I'm now at that stage where I'm in the loo every half an hour on 'knicker watch' patrol! got to laugh. 

xx


----------



## Ronnie3007

*fififi* Thanks yes we thought he would, he is the top man there so feeling quite positive. I will start on 2nd day of my next cycle which is towards the end of this month.

*MJ1* Sounds like you have an exciting time coming up, IVF, holiday and a wedding WOW . Will keep you busy 

*Kirsty* Remain positive hun, when i fell naturally sometimes you do still get the symptoms of AF arriving. Don't give up hope just yet      yes it seems sometimes the body responds better to the clomid, the stimms are an artificial form of hormone so are more aggressive. I am willing to try anything. Also it is a cheaper way of getting follies, so that is an extra bonus lol 

*AFM* Well wishing this month away for this new cycle to start, I have a feeling this wont be the month that it might take a couple before we are able to go to collection. I am wondering whether it is still worth sitting with a hot water bottle with the clomid? Anyone know? Today I took Pongo to the groomers i help at and gave him a much needed pamper session, bless him. He smells lovely now


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## MJ1

Morning Ladies,

Saw this in the paper yesterday and thought I woud share...http://www.pregnantinsixmonths.co.uk/treatment-for-explained-infertility/
Not sure if it is the magic solution but sounds good? Anyone heard of them?

*Kirsty*, yes technically we are at the top of the list, there are still 16 ladies in front of me so it is whoever walks through the door and matches... My AF is due tomorrow too.... let's hope that it comes to me and the stork visits you 

*Ronnie,* yes I will be, oh well takes my mind off other things or that is what I am hoping  Good luck for your cycle too 

Love MJ1 xx

/links


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## Sushi Lover

*MJ*... just had a read. Very interesting. Never heard of them I have to say. Doesn't say how much you need to fork out up front though! I bet it's really expensive. They say they will not accept anyone on the programme if it puts you into 'financial hardship'. Hmmmm. Probably on a par with an IVF cycle. Money back after 6 months if you aren't pregnant is obviously a selling point. Worth a free consultation? I'll do a bit more digging first I think.

Ahh, bless you. Will keep my eyes peeled for that elusive stork! Best of luck finding your perfect match soon. How long did that take from putting your name on the list?

xx


----------



## MJ1

*Kirsty,* Yes I thought the same, probably around the same price as IVF. 
List wise we went on mid January so it has been in the 6-9 month timeframe that they give you. 
MJ1 xxxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*MJ*... ah, I see. Seems like a lot quicker.. but I bet it's dragged for you! x


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi girls - just checking in.   I haven't posted for a while because I have been down in the dumps and didn't want to bore you all with it. Will do a proper post when I get a bit more time.  

Just wanted say good luck to Kirsty I hope you get your miracle baby xxx

Roxy I do not need any treatment for my results from Serum , they said Proteous was normally present xx

MIL update shes in Greece so waiting for the talk when she comes back - will tell her the truth about how I ended up childess thanks to her son .

Mike/Shelly update - we are seeing Shelly a lot more now and he has joined a website called the Beaumont Society, its for trans everythings.  He has quite a lot of chats with me now about girlie things which is strange, but in some ways I am glad he feels he can talk to me about these things.  Anyway he seems happy and we are all getting used to the change in him   

AFM on the baby front I am going for couselling when I come back off holiday as I am not coping with the moving on thing.  I am thinking about DE but for some reason I can't bring myself to say thats what I want to DP, as I hate the look on his face when I bring the subject up again.  I did spend last Sunday in tears as we went to the seafront and there were babies and families EVERYWHERE, so he knows I am very unhappy.

Anyway the secret life of cats is on so I am going to have a little chuckle at that.

Much love to you all xxx


----------



## deblovescats

sorry you're having a rough time, lesley - you need to do what you think best, and I think counselling is a good idea. Like you, I have a hard time around babies - today we went for a team lunch from work to the pub - great idea, but the colleague on maternity leave, (who incidentally has decided not to come back, but has a new part time job nearer where she lives) came as well (she likes to keep in touch) and brought her baby with her. Then everyone else was on about wedding anniversaries (which of course leaves me out as well) so all in all, a difficult lunch! I'm trying to keep positive though. Its good you're able to support shelley as well - though sounds like you need a bit of support!
hope you're doing ok kirsty
Last day at work before hols - yippee! Got packed mainly, just odds and ends to do
I'm going to chill out and then its just a case of waiting for a call from the clinic. I let them know my holiday dates.
I'll be hanging around on here if i can get access to the internet - not sure how it goes on board ship. If not, I'll be catching up with everyone in 2 weeks (almost like a 2WW - but not as bad!)
Deb


----------



## fififi

Deb - have fab holiday. Make the most of some chill & fun time cos sounds like you deserve it. Hopefully you'll meet some interesting people on your cruise and be enjoying it so much you'll forget all about us, even if there is wifi. (Shame your lunch today was spoilt but cheer yourself up by thinking how rubbish their next two weeks will be compared to yours - even baby lady will probably not be appreciating what she's got & suffering from lack of sleep for all the wrong reasons   )

Lesley     - been thinking of you hun. Wish could be there to have physical chat with you cos you certainly sound like you need a few better friends around you. Counselling sounds a good option and will help clarify your thoughts if nothing else. When are you off on holiday? And where to? Do hope you & DP find a meeting place soon cos I can't imagine how hard this whole process is for you when the person you need to be taking next steps with isn't really anywhere near the path you're on    

Hi & hugs to everyone else - need to go to bed as not realised time until DH shouted down to me!!!!


----------



## hopeful68

Ajw, did you get your results? Sending a hug your way.   keep us posted, although this is an ivf site, we are all here for all kinds of support..... Both giving and receiving advice and hugs! M


----------



## Ronnie3007

Girls I also have been told about DHEA, its a natural hormone supplement us over 40's should take to turn time back in our ovaries.  Its supposed to work really well. I am trying to locate it at the moment either thro the internet or our chemists.

Also do i use the hot water bottle again with the Clomid? xx


----------



## fififi

Ronnie - think several of us, including me been taking DHEA for a while. Kirsty got hers from US and is micronised version that according to some websites is better, but I've also read that it may be not so good so bit pot luck really.
My clinic is running a trial on use of DHEA - I opted out of the trial but bought DHEA of same type to try, and avoid the "smarties" as my consultant put it  http://www.nurture.ac.uk/news/can-dhea-improve-pregnancy-rates-in-women-with-low-ovarian-reserve
I'm taking 75mg daily in morning to avoid sleep issues. For first month I got quite few spots & greasy-ish hair but settled down now. I do think I'm more grumpy on it and aggressive at times when I'd normally be annoyed but not so bothered. (Wow I sound fun to be with!!!) I get mine from Biovea. If you want I can "recommend" you as a friend & we'd both get £5 discount off order - counts for first order too. I'd need you to PM me your email and full name.

Ajw - thinking of you & hoping results were clear     

/links


----------



## artist_mum

*Hopeful* - yes i know what you mean about being the eternal student! I also seem to love studying, if it wasn't so expensive i'd probably do an MA. Seems like you've got next year all planned out already which is great, good way to approach it, or it really can get on top of you. I"m glad to finish in some ways but also missing it already  Like you with the dog being unwell, I had the uni pressure directly after my m/c and i think this past week or so it has hit me again (in smaller way). Good to try and get over it completely I guess, it's hard and does take time. Best of luck with you and your OH on the moving forward.

Got everything crossed for you for sunday *kirsty*.

*ajw* my thoughts are also with you.

*lesley* sorry to hear things have been tricky these past weeks, sending you a big . It's so hard this journey for a couple. Really hard at times. Hope you can get together on it.

hi to everyone else, thanks for the congrats on my uni finish & sorry not so many personals tonight as it is late, and time for bed! I'm going away in the morning just me and the dog to get some peace (the step kids are here & i've been so stressed out we decided it's best if i take off for the weekend)

Roxy x


----------



## Sushi Lover

Another BFN for us this morning  .... ... It doesn't get any easier to cope with. I'm rock bottom again unfortunately. No miracle baby for us this cycle. My eggs just don't seem good enough.

Thanks for all the kind words of support and personal messages in the past few days.

*Ajw* ... Hope you're ok and your results were good? There are more important things in life.

Xxx


----------



## Salad4

Kirsty - big hugs from me  . Haven't been on for a while because work has been too busy (not good busy) and I've been struggling with all of this.  It is all so bl**dy unfair.  Not really much I can say to help, but I can send supportive thoughts and know that you aren't alone.... Sallyx


----------



## Moominmum

*Kirsty* I am so, so sorry to hear your news. No words can ease your pain. I have been praying for you.   

*Ajw *How are you doing?  

Moominmum


----------



## LellyLupin

Oh Kirsty    why is life so bloody crap for us all when we would be such good Mums  ,  I am so sorry chick.  You threw everything you had at it so in one way it may help you decide to give the DE option a go,  without thinking if only I had tried again with my OE.  Not much of a consolation I know  

Thanks for your kind words girls, I know we all struggle on this thread and I know we have all been at this low point from time to time  .  I am off to Turkey next Monday,  first holiday in 4 years, and yes I did have the thought we all have 'we could have put that money towards ivf'    It feels strange to be 'wasting' it on a holiday but I think both DP and I need a break (just wish I could have a break from myself)  

Hello Sally Salad nice to see your name on here, hope work settles down for you soon xx

Roxy hope your weekend off with the dog is peaceful, how many stepkids do you have again?  We are at the stage now when ours don't want to visit as much, they would rather be with their friends.  Must say I get a strange empty nest feeling when they say they are not coming.  Lucy has started her period at 11 which was a shock as to me shes just a little girl, its amazing how time flies by.  Shes almost as tall as me now.  I did get a lovely  big cuddle off her this weekend, I so wish they were both mine.  I did have a little chuckle cos Lucy has started to have migraines, so her mother took her to the doctor,  and when he asked if there was any migraine in the family she said yes her stepmother gets them    Shes never been the sharpest knife in the drawer  

Fifi I liked your description of DP not even being on my path,  that made me chuckle, I think he is about two countries away from where I am standing at the moment.  We are off to a place called Hisaranu, we have been before and its really peaceful, just packed a shedload of sunscreen as its 94 out there at the mo.  Thanks for all the hugs - right back at ya babe, I wish you were closer too.  I am so grateful to have you and the rest of the girls xx

Debs have a fabulous time on your jollies, if its any consolation I can't join in with anniversary talk, wedding talk or baby talk either   I get fed up with baby talk in the office too.  There are 3 of us at work who have been through ivf and have no babies to show for it, so we have formed a little club of our own and talk about our pets very loudly.  Hope you get chance to de-stress and relax and don't forget your sunscreen xx

Hi Ronnie I thought about DHEA too but didn't dare take it as I have slight polycystic ovaries,  and I didn't want to be grumpy like Fifi    Just kidding Feefs, I am grumpy without it  

Hi Hopeful how is your doggie doing?  Hope you are doing ok and feel a bit more settled about your decision to try to move on xx

Hi Mj xx

Ajw hope your results were ok and you've got the all clear,  you waiting for you results puts everything into perspective, we should all be grateful that we are healthy despite our heartache shouldn't we.  Sending you a big   and lots of


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - so sad that you didn't get the BFP you deserve. Do hope one of us finds a magic wand soon & can change our sadness into happiness. Take care of you & DP/DH and remember we are all here for you when you need us xxx


----------



## MJ1

Hi Kirsty,
So sorry hun... sending you lots of hugs and soothing vibes    
Love MJ xxxxxxx


----------



## ajw

Kirsty, I'm so sorry. Was really hoping for good news. Hope you're coping ok. Thanks so much for sparing a thought for me when you've got so much on your mind! That's so kind of you.

Thanks to everyone else for your good wishes and prayers. I'm pleased to say that the surgeon removed the whole pre-cancerous area, and no cancerous cells were found. Phew! I'm so relieved, but unfortunately he told me I have a mutant gene (like Angelina), which means I'm at a much higher risk than your average person of getting cancer. Feeling like I've swallowed a time bomb, but very pleased it wasn't set for 12th June...

Surgeon said, as I'm currently cancer free, there's no reason why I can't do another cycle 
I'm in a spin now, trying to figure out what to do next, which Dr to go with, etc..

I have a conference call in 10 mins, so sorry for lack of personals. Big hugs to Lesley though. Sounds like you're having a really rough time. I know how you're feeling, as I was trying to prepare myself to move on, in the event that I did have cancer and wouldn't be able to do any more fertility treatment. It's really hard to come to terms with. I think getting psychological support is important.

For everyone considering DE, I went to an info weekend last week and there they spoke about the psychological side being the most difficult and how it was important to seek psychological support to hlp you through.

Hugs to everyone else, I'll be back on soon for a better catch up.
ajw


----------



## fififi

ajw - what a relief      
I felt emotional just reading your post, so can't imagine how bumpy this particular blip in your life has been for you. It's fab news that for now all is cancer free. Do hope you are able to enjoy that feeling for a long time. Scary to think you're more likely to develop cancer than Joe Average but equally that doesn't mean you will      
Hope you come to a decision as to what to do TX wise soon and can transfer your emotional energy back to that - which I guess is actually far less of a worry than the cancer scare was.

Having theoretically joined the DE side of things it's definitely my head in the most muddled place. Being on the "waiting list" seems to give you too long to think - when we paid our deposit I was feeling quite confident that it was the right thing to do but as time drags by my mind has gone bit crazy! Might try seeing if I can see the counsellor again now that I am hopefully nearer being matched - though the appointment times at my clinic are pretty rubbish so often end up feeling more stressed than I did before going. Do wish there were evening or weekend appointments as they would be far more beneficial.


----------



## Mish3434

Kirsty, I'm so sorry to see your BFN, huge huge hugs to you xx


----------



## Ronnie3007

*Kirsty* So so sorry to hear your news, was hoping and praying for you. Take time to recover hun, sending loads of hugs 

*ajw* Great news on your cancerous cells, Good Luck with your next tx   

*AFM* Enjoying our current hot weather, even tho it is a tad humid. Waiting for AF to arrive so that i can start the clomid on day 2. Looking into getting these DHEA tabs, they certainly seem worth a try. I will try anything that will help!! I have been a bit naughty this week, we had surprise visitors from UK at the weekend and i have continued the wine all week. As soon as my AF arrives it will be nil alcohol.


----------



## artist_mum

a real quickie from me, things still busy this end..

*kirsty* so very sorry. thinking of you x

*ajw* Good news, pleased to read that. And yet the gene like Angelina.. that is hard to find out (although you're in good company there!) so yeah, i do feel for you - you have a lot to mull over and I just hope you find your way and get the happiness you deserve. Really glad you can go forward with tx x

*lesley* you made me laugh with the skid at the doctor story  and wow, that's an early period, i heard they have them younger and younger these days. I have 2 of the little darlings, age 9 and 13 years and yes, increasingly they probably won't want to come over although for the mo we are still on alternate weekends and 1 night in the week. The weekend with the dog was ace thanks very much! Went to Marlborough, B&B, dog walks, cream tea, reading magazines without interruption!! Nice  x

Love to everyone, sorry got to dash
Roxy xx


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi girls just a quick note before I go off to Turkey.

ajw I am so pleased you are ok and can now focus on what you want to do next, you must be so relieved   I understand your worry about the mutant gene, but still its not guaranteed that you will get it and now the doctors will keep an eye on you so you are in good hands.  Sending you lots of    and I hope you won't dwell on that aspect for too long.  You are healthy and thats fantastic news and all that matters for now.  xx  On the DE psychological front what did they say was the most difficut aspect, if you don't mind me asking?  

Roxy I know at 11 I was still playing with toys not buying tampons, I was 16 when I started mine so 11 just seems ridiculous    Your weekend sounds fabulous, cream teas are my favourite even though I don't have them often and I am a magazine fiend.  What did DH think about you taking off ? 

AFM been having a bit of a spoil of myself for my birthday tomorrow and have had eyelash extensiosn put in, I am not sure what I think of them I think they look a bit stripperish, even though I got the shortest ones.  My brother laughed when he saw them (thanks Bro).  Tomorrow its eyebrow shaping and gelish nails and then I am getting my teeth whitened. DP said I am like Goldie Hawn in Dead Again - papering over the cracks    Down side is I know that 46 means the British clinics won't even give me a chance now, no matter how good my eyelashes look.  

Went to see my friend with the baby last night and surprisingly I don't feel too bad today.  The baby is gorgeous all big blue eyes and gums.  I still don't believe she is a natural mother,  I got the impression she was putting on a bit of a show for my benefit.  Anyhow I survived it and I have made a pact with DP that I won't let the baby thing spoil our holiday,  and he will come to counselling with me when we get back.  It will be interesting to see how that pans out.

See you when I get back- be good xxx


----------



## artist_mum

*lesley* Have a fabulous holiday - and DON"T let the baby thing come into it as promised... just enjoy what you have and your DP. That sounds like a great idea to make that pact, and really good if you guys get some together counselling when you get back. Your beauty treatments sound like just the job to get you in the mood for some party/holiday time, i like the idea of those eyelashes . I hope you have a very very . My DP is very patient and tolerant of my moody artistic ways, and happy for me to go off (so he didn't have to deal with my stress-head!). On the very happy plus side, I got my marks back yesterday and got a First in my degree, so really pleased with that. Also just sent my bloods to Serum as AF finally arrived, so we will see. Anyway have a great hols, big  Roxy xx

PS I thought that about being 46 years old but have since found out that the London clinics don't mind on age, and the abroad donor egg ones go easily to 50. So DO NOT give up x

Hi everybody else, hope your weekends are going well, love Roxy xx


----------



## fififi

Lesley - have a fab birthday tomorrow & an even more fun time on holiday    
Think having some beauty treats is going to help you feel special, plus I'm sure the stripper effect is probably more to do with the fact it's not your normal look to be so made up rather than they are too OTT. Perhaps they'll help you feel flirty & fun then you & DP can have a proper couple holiday away - all the stresses of tx does kill most libidos!
You deserve some "me time" so go & enjoy it xxxx

Roxy - wow, a first. Bet you're made up    
Must make all that hard work seem worth it now. That's truly brilliant, especially as a returning student. Do hope you've allowed yourself a celebratory drink or two xx

Hi everyone else - bit shattered so not in mood for writing I'm afraid. AF on its way so feeling pretty sh1t again - am day late & foolishly allowed myself to think there was a possibility it might not be coming & got my hopes up only to be knocked back into reality with a big fat test line only. As always happens when at your lowest had about 3 separate people ask me today whether my DD was my only child, rapidly followed by "don't you want another one?" - Have given up on pathetic excuses now & told them that it had taken 5 years of IVF to get her & despite another 4 years of trying we've not managed that joy again. Two people muttered an apology & quickly disappeared & the third came out with the classic "I'm sure it'll happen when you least expect it" Aggggghhhhhh!!!
Still waiting for DE match so hopefully that won't take too much longer & I can channel my thoughts into believing that that will be the miracle I need instead of over analysing all the what ifs.

Enjoy rest of the weekend x


----------



## artist_mum

Thanks a lot *fififi*. It was unexpected really to get a 1st, so I am truly delighted - 5 years, £10k in fees and a load of work (most of it fun I admit) but yeah, I'm happy  I don't normally drink, but did go for it at the Grad Ball, surrounded as me and DP were by 20-somethings knocking back slammers and playing tech rave music!!

It's hard for you with people making assumptions because you have one child.. I think people know when there's no kids that perhaps it's a problem but that just must feel awful to have people making these comments when you have those feelings to deal with. I totally understand about 'over analysing the ifs'.

I met up with someone from FF last week (she came down to the show at uni) and she had her baby with her, DE, a beautiful little girl which she managed on first TX after many previous m/c with OE. So it can be down to that, and can work quickly. Especially you know that your body CAN bring a baby to term. Best of luck xx


----------



## fififi

Thanks Roxy x


----------



## ajw

Hello everyone. Just checking in to send you all hugs and good wishes for this week. Will try to get on later to write some replies. Taken me all my spare time to catch up reading and now have to dash for a conference call!
Hope you're all ok. 
Ajw x


----------



## DizziSquirrel

Sorry to butt in - I am trying to encourage the use of FF's Chat room facility, 
and it would be helpful to know if you've ever been in, would consider going in or are a regular user
please make any comments on this link - http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=308193.0
hope we see you in Chat soon

~Dizzi~


----------



## fififi

A little bit of hope:-
Sat next to a lady today on a work placement who was desperate to talk & suddenly announced her 8 week pregnancy to me.  I with all the joys this news from a virtual stranger brings politely said "congratulations" when she went on to say how she was in total shock - I was all ready to hear the usual "we've been trying for 2 months now" - when she said that she'd had her DD 12 years ago, following 10 cycles of IVF & now this has happened. I could have hugged her when she said she'd recently turned 40. No idea who she is but never have I felt so pleased to hear a random persons PG announcement before.


----------



## DizziSquirrel

oh wow! hope you gave FF a plug


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## artist_mum

*fififi* sounds like one of those 'meant to be' meetings! Lovely  x


----------



## Ronnie3007

*Fififi* WOW random but what a lovely story, gives us all hope. 

*AFM* Well after being messed around this month by my AF doing a stop start routine, I am now on day 2 of a very light one. Took my first Clomid this morning, another tonight so will be a total of 100 mg a day. Follie scan on Tuesday morning so hoping to see an improvement on 2 follies, if not it will be suspended til next month. I am fine with that if it gives the Clomid more time to work. I will be rattling soon, everyday I am on Clomid, folic acid, evening primrose and DHEA. OMG!!

Hope your weather where you are is better than ours, cloudy, windy and chilly . Have a good one girls


----------



## deblovescats

hi guys
I'm now back from my wonderful hols! Feeling totally relaxed and enjoyed some sunshine (the Med was undergoing a massive heatwave!) and all raring to go for tx. We visited Rome, Santorini, Mykonos, Ephesus, Istanbul, Athens and Naples.... so now trying to catch up with all posts as didn't bother to buy an expensive internet package on board.
first of all - so sorry to hear your news kirsty -i'm gutted for you hun! Try and be good to yourself and you'll get there in the end, just try and chill and recover,
congrats on the degree roxy - good for you! 
ajw - great news about the results - at least now you know that you have the go ahead for tx and just because you have the gene, doesn't mean that you will definitely get problems! 
lesley - happy birthday and enjoy your hols in Turkey! Good on you for spoiling yourself. I'm glad I've had a holiday and got away from work for a while. I think the counselling sounds a great idea. 
fiffi - i'm in the same place as you at the moment - just waiting for a donor. I feel all refreshed and ready to go, but waiting for that phone call. They told me 2-3 months, and one month has gone since my initial appt so i'm trying to be optimistic that it could be anytime in the next few weeks. I think that's one of the hard bits of the IVF journey - the waiting!! 
Just getting into the Wimbledon, having been out of the loop while on hols - great news about Murray and Laura Robson!
Deb


----------



## ajw

Your hol sounds wonderful Deb. Fab locations! Exciting that you might hear something in the next few weeks! At least you don't have the same panic that time is running out that you have with OE.

Well done Roxy for you degree - that's amazing!

Fifi - not sure I'd have the guts to go through 10 rounds! She certainly deserved that pregnancy!

AFM I had a scan yesterday to check the extent of the fibroids / endo and luckily the fobroids are not in the uterine cavity, so no problem for a pregnancy, and she confirmed the endo is small and that she wouldn't recommend operating (phew!) Only thing is, she saw some stuff that could be endo in my upper abdomen, so I have to go for an x-ray...

Going to see gyn nr 1 tonight to see what he says about another cycle. Still can't decide which gyn to go with...

ajw x


----------



## Ronnie3007

Well not great news today, my follie scan showed a large cyst which should have been dispersed by the drop of my hormone levels.  This explains why i thought there was something not quite right with my AF.  Basically, it has not arrived properly yet, so have wasted a pack of Clomid.  Never mind.  I now have to wait for my AF to arrive properly to re take the tabs.


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Ronnie

Sorry to barge into your conversation thread, but I seem to remember somewhere in an earlier post you mentioned you were taking DHEA - I have brought some off of the internet, but I now understand there are two types so I am not sure I have the right one (the back of the bottle also says you should not take it if you are trying to conceive) - do you know any more on this, or have any details of the one you have purchased?

thanks


----------



## fififi

Rachel - you can get micronised or standard DHEA. From extensive research it seems both have advantages & disadvantages so I opted for the normal type as this was what my UK clinic is using in the trial they are currently conducting http://www.nurture.ac.uk/news/can-dhea-improve-pregnancy-rates-in-women-with-low-ovarian-reserve
If you search on FF for micronised v standard DHEA you might find thread I created but not sure of link now.

I recommended Biovea to Ronnie as place to buy DHEA as that's where my consultant suggested when I opted out of trial due to wanting to actually take the DHEA rather than possibly placebo. For trial is 75mg capsule daily so I've bought 25mg ones and take 3 day. I think they all suggest avoiding if TTC plus its not licensed in UK as a supplement due to lack of testing on pg women. If having IVF cycle clinic asks you to stop taking it from EC I think.

If you want to order different DHEA from Biovea then I can recommend you so you get £5 discount but I'm sure what you've currently got is fine - just stick to 75mg dose

/links


----------



## fififi

Ronnie - sorry to see you've a cyst. Hopefully your body will rebalance itself soon.
Not sure if you've tried but ground linseed is good for hormonal balance - made a big difference to my cycles & FSH levels

AJW - good news re fibroids/endo, especially after all you've been through. Hope you reach a decision re who to go with for next cycle. Though am sure allowing yourself some TLC time will help x

Deb - wow, you cruise sounds great. Hope you're all relaxed now. Yep this waiting for donor call is far more stressful than I'd realised. (MJ1 can't imagine how you coped with being told initially 6 months) I now fluctuate from wanting the call to being scared every time phone rings!

Kirsty & Moom hope you are both coping ok after recent sad news - you're both in my thoughts regularly xx

Lesley - thinking of you too hun, hope Turkey was fab distraction & you & DP had some fun together x

Everyone else ... as ever not got much time for personals but thinking of you all & sending lots of hugs


----------



## RachelMaria

thanks Fififi - your a star - will have a look xx


----------



## RachelMaria

By teh way ladies there is a really interesting article in the sun one line in the health section about fertility and older ladies - it states that a lot of the research done to provide over 40's stats was done from church records in rural france in the 1800's! - haven't read the whole thing yeat as have printed it and will take it home to read in bed (where I do my best thinking) - but thought you might want to take a look....


----------



## Moominmum

Hi Ladies,

Just a quick hello to everyone. Will sit down and catch up and  try to write some personals later. Decided to clear my mind and take DS for a last minute "adventure trip" to Spain (plane, train, bus, ferry etc) and got back yesterday.

Hope everyone is keeping well.

Moominmum xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks for thinking of me Fifi...

Not doing too badly thanks.  Kind of numb now and all feels a bit surreal...like it's happening to something else.  I never thought I'd be in this situation with 4 failed IVF cycles behind me.  It's like a story from the Daily Mail! ...  "41 year-old Essex woman spends life savings and more on multiple IVF treatments and is left with huge debts and no baby to show for it"    If I don't laugh I'll cry.

Still have our frozen embryo to use..  will leave it a few months until I get my head sorted.  Been on the donor list a month now, it will take until the end of year to be matched.  So a DE cycle planned for Jan 2014 ..  will be begging, borrowing and saving until then to be honest!

We managed to have a cheap break in Ibiza for 9 days..  so I was grateful for that.  Just what DP and I needed.

Saw a new gynaecologist on Monday...  going through my medical insurance and not mentioning the word 'fertility' anywhere.  Just pelvic pain etc.  She wants to do a laparoscopy and hysteroscopy to check everything looks ok 'in there'.  Rule out endometriosis, fibroids, scar tissue and polyps.  I've always been told they can see any probs on an ultrasound, but this new woman says that's not the case?!  So I'm booked in for the 19th.  Gives us the best chance for our FET in September time.

Sorry for the 'me' post ladies.  I've lost track of which stage everyone is at.  Try to catch up soon and write some personals.

Nice sunny weekend.

xxx


----------



## ajw

Kirsty, that sounds good that you're getting a new take on it. Even if they find nothing at least they're being thorough. And you've still got hope for your FET!
I've never had anything to freeze, so you're lucky there. 

Nice to hear from you again Moomin. Spain sounds like a fun trip.

Fifi - you impress me by your knowledge yet again 

Ronnie sorry you're up against obstacles too. What a pain! Hope you get it sorted soon. What do you have to do? Just wait for it to go?

AFM I'm really annoyed today 😡. Agreed with gyn last week that I'd start stimming this week to get a cycle in before his summer hols. In France we get 4 cycles paid for, but you have to do them before you're 43, so I'm trying to fit in 2 before the beginning of December. One in July and one in Sept / Oct would have been perfect. 
However, I had until yesterday for AF to arrive. A y later and it would push ET into the doc's holidays. I'm usually like clockwork, but of course this time I'm 5 days late! And, no I'm not pregnant!
Can't believe it. Maybe I'm menopausal! 😱
Now I have to wait until September, as he's off for the whole of August...
And I'm not sure he'd do the 4th in November. He normally likes me to have a break. Plus we've got a big holiday planned for November to India for a friend's wedding!

Why does this whole country shut down for August?! (France, I mean!)

Ajw x


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## hopeful68

Hi Ladies, not posted for ages. I wont do personals as I think everyone will have moved on a week by now!! just an update from me really......

Been busy at work and busy enjoying the sun, including a nice kayak round Poole harbour at the weekend - and I live here so not stuck in the traffic to get here or get home!! I think DH & ! are on the up and returning to normality. we still have the stomach churn when there is something in the news or in a TV program about kids/IVF/ fertility etc but I think we are normalising our lives and making future plans for 'just us'.

managed to land myself yet another role at work so that will keep me even more occupied - teaching first aid to all the admin team and the out of hours staff including the GPs!!!(oh, forgot to add....... in 2 counties!!). looks like my secondment will be extended again too so I must be doing something right!!

dog is hanging on in there but suffering in the heat - he is even resigned to having a hose down these days - must be feeling the heat!! I know I am - my last day off today before back on ambo shifts and I am hiding in doors rather than going in the sun!!!

my neighbour and I are planning an evening horse ride next week on the beach - not been riding for ages - need to 1. find my jodhpurs and 2. see if they still fit - 2 is less likely than 1!!! should be nice - if the weather holds - would love to take the horse for a swim!!

on leave next week - not planning any trips away - no elderly dog sitters volunteers came forward, so home, pottering in the garden, reading, kayaking, (riding), cycling, -hopefully sleeping - but so hot at the mo!!....basically what I would do while on holiday - but with out paying for the hire fees!!

anyhow - enough rambling on, I hope you are all enjoying the weather when you can. really starting to re-believe in my life mantra *'it all happens for a reason' * hopefully those of you coming to terms with the end of the line can take that on board too and see more positives than negatives in your situation. it doesn't take much to open our eyes, look around and see how much we really do have already. we can get to focused on our negative bubble that we miss truly important little things going on around us. hopefully I will still feel this positive in a couple of weeks after I turn 43!!! 

sending    to all who need it!!

M


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## deblovescats

hi girls
hopeful - so good to hear that you're doing ok and coming to terms with your decision. I think you're so brave and good to hear you're enjoying life! 
AFM - hanging in there, had all my tests clear for tx, GP supportive, just waiting for call from clinic to say got a donor. I'm finding it very stressful, just hanging around waiting. I get frustrated - the clinic say they don't have a waiting list, but then tell you it will be poss 2-3 months for donors tests etc. I think if I had a date even a few months down the line, I could deal with it better, but have to try and chill. I'm now 5  1/2 weeks down the line, so suppose it's heading there. Went to beach on Sat - great time, then watched amazing wimbledon final Sun - wow - we've got a British winner for 1st time in 77 years, so hopefully those of us planning tx will also get our happy ending. Had a rubbish day yesterday though - I'm so angry! I got home from work and found my bank statement waiting - found some b....d had cleared a total of £1100 out of my account!!! They'd tried to take a further £1700 on Gems TV (TV shopping channel - jewellery). The amounts they'd taken - about £450 on Brantano online shoes, £110 T mobile, £34 Domino pizza (lazy so and so doesn't even cook obviously!), £300 on fine wines ... I got straight on to the bank and they're going to recredit me the money and have stopped my card etc but I'm mad that their fraud dept didn't pick up the unusual transactions - I don't even earn enough to spend that much per month!!! I'm angry that someone thinks it's ok to steal from people who work hard, don't earn massive amounts and then spend it on luxury items! Going to change banks! 
Sorry for rant - just mad! 
Good luck to everyone cycling at moment
Deb


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## deblovescats

Hope everyone hanging in there
AFMLooks like the rant paid off - at least i could let off steam! 
Got a phone call today from the clinic to say they've found me an egg and sperm donor so all systems go .... plan is to have a review appointment Aug to go through treatment plan and sign consent forms, to start medication to synchronize donor and me in Aug, ready for ET Sept, as clinic is closed last 2 weeks in Aug. 
I'm so excited, but nervous as well, looking forward to it, but also dreading another BFN - I know I shouldn't think this way, but don't want to build up my hopes too much.
I'm off for a short break in York at the weekend with my sister and a friend - we're going to see three Shakespeare's history plays in a day - real marathon (hope the weather is not too hot!) and will have a good look round and go for a meal.
Also, going for a short break at end of August in Dublin - my sister won free flight and 2 nights B&B in nice hotel with BA - so should be good break and get me relaxed for tx.
Deb


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## fififi

That's great news Debs   - think next week I'm going to chase up my clinic as been nearly 3 months now & was told there's normally no  than 2 months wait. Delay prob due to my CMV status being negative as that put me in worst position but seems odd (& frustrating) I've heard nothing

Hopeful - glad you're coping with things on the whole & beginning to get pleasure from life once more. Stay I touch if you feel able & keep promoting "fun" to us ... I for one, need to start accepting this road is ending so hearing about the good stuff on the road I've been avoiding will help.
Always here to support you for those low days  

AJW - sorry that your IVF plans got messed up by lack of AF. Perhaps destiny is taking over & Sept is the right time for you to have tx    Try to enjoy some sunshine & relaxing so that come Sept you will be in optimal place

Hi everyone else - got to dash out now but thinking of you all & hope life being kind


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## hopeful68

Hi fififi, I will def keep in touch - not going anywhere in a hurry. a slow road but I am determined that I cant dwell on what will never happen and I don't want to waste my life and energy regretting. Yes I should have started trying sooner, I should have gone for advice sooner, I wish I had a kid(s) but I didn't and don't so my cock up, my lot so I need to accept it and get on with life or it will be over before I learn to enjoy it again. - perhaps my meting loads of ill and old people on a daily basis as a paramedic gives me an incite to the future - it isn't great for many people so enjoy what you have now...... here endeth the lesson!!! 

I will be donning the dark green polyester based uniform for the next 2 days - and it is due to hit 30deg down in Poole, I was working in that on Wed and it was hard work, drank 2L water!! however I am leave for a week from sunday!! yippi. I will then enjoy the sun, the water, the alcohol (no more feeling guilty drinking!!) and friends!! ohh and I did find my jodhpurs and they still fit - god knows how - thank goodness for stretch fabric I say!!!

have a good w/end all!!!


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## fififi

Hopeful ... you enjoy making the most of life again. Hope last two days of work flies by for you & you can actually have a sunny week's holiday. Very envious of you living by the coast. Beach horse ride sounds lovely ... glad the jodpurs fitted after all  
(PS. Actually very envious of you being brave enough to take the step away from TX and all the emotional, physical & financial stress that comes with it. Your holiday plans are what we should all be doing really ... instead I'm on J2Os when out and avoid any fun activity that might possible be an issue if, miracle of miracle, I've actually concieved. Looking forward to next summer when can do all those things assuming I manage to draw the line under it all come the end of 2013.)


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## hopeful68

work over for 8 days - including w/ends as it sounds longer!! I nearly melted yesterday - drank 2 ltrs of water and hardly went to the loo!! will be doing the same again today I think!

I hope everyone has a nice w/end and doesn't burn - suncream on ladies!!! and lots of fluids.... already done half a ltr today. the dog is being sensible and staying in today - possibly the threat of a hose down is putting him off going out though!!

will be in touch later.
M

PS Fififi - you need to reach your own journey's end before you can close the door. but I will say it gets less upsetting the more you more down the road of no kids and accept it.


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## deblovescats

hi everyone
hopeful - i admire you so much, as fifi says, that you can step away from tx, and that you're trying to be positive about not doing further tx, good on you. I need to take a leaf out of your book and try and put positive things in my life now, so that between tx and when it goes pear shaped, that I have something to look forward to. Must admit have been putting social things on hold. 
fiffi - i think you should ring the clinic - it seems to be taking ages for you. I found that I was CMV positive, so easier for a donor, but I have a CMV negative donor, so there are some around. I understand from the clinic (just check it out) that you can have an egg donor of either negative or positive, but the sperm donor/partner should be negagtive, as there's more a risk of passing on the virus with sperm evidently. 
AFM - I'm now on tenter hooks about getting an appt - waiting for the nurse to ring about arranging a review appt and to go through tx plan and book a date for Sept. I had a good weekend so am managing to get some positive things in.Had a weekend in York with sister and a friend - had a great time, but was baking hot (too hot!) and saw 3 Shakespeare history plays in a day (GLobe Theatre London on tour) - brilliant show, great acting, gorgeous looking guys (could have taken one home with me!) and had lunch as well. 
Deb


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## hopeful68

I hope everyone survived the heat wave this week end. my week off was lovely - amazing really. didn't get away but dug out the SCUBA kit - not used it in several years, went for a dive - lovely, paddled round Poole Harbour, cycled round Poole Park, ate ice cream, Dad and Granddad came over for my Birthday, drank Fizz and wine, ate too much and generally relaxed. did have a few - wouldn't it be nice to share this with a child thoughts but was able to put them to one side and focus on ME & DH and the family I do have. This time last year I was syncing to the Tx by taking the pill while on holiday and would be starting jabs in 2 wks - so much has happened since then, so much mental strain - I still feel exhausted from it but determined to keep moving forwards and not look back. a ** friend posted something along the lines of the following - which may or many not help...

when driving you look forward out of a big wide windscreen so you can see what is coming, you look behind you with little mirrors.  this reflects the importance of what you are looking at. don't look at the past too long you will miss important things in your future.

about sums us all up in one way or another I think!!

I about to run through a course I am teaching tomorrow and then grab a few more rays before my week off comes to an end!!!

hope you all have a good week.

M


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## LellyLupin

Hi Girls  

Just a quick post to say I had a fabulous holiday ion Turkey (v hot), I haven't fell off a cliff or anything I am keeping up with your posts but haven't got any baby stuff to say so am not posting.  Debs very excited for you, Hopeful I wish I was at the stage you are at, loved your car/mirrors lesson, unfortunately I am still looking in the rear view mirror . Glad to hear you are throwing yourself into life and you are getting there.  Hi to Feefs, Kirsty, Moomin, Roxy, Ronnie, Salad, chandlerino, ajw (hope you are well) Rachel and everyone else  

Quick AFM Still struggling to let the dream go, I haven't said anything to DP so he thinks I am moving on,  but if I am totally honest I am just 'on hold' still.  Did get a call off my American cousin who said if she dies shes leaving me her kids (nice of her to ask if I want them)   Have a new baby Hedgie (Summer) only a few weeks old.  Toby is still on the scene but with a new owner plus an ex race horse, so I am still busy with the horses.  Suzy (dog) is still keeping me amused and shes in good health. DP is still planning our childless future and I am still struggling to deal with my friends baby (who incidently has been in hospital with septicaemia, the baby not the friend) Mike/Shelly is becoming more of a woman on a daily basis, he now has his ears pierced and Gelish nails and his eyebrows done. .


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## hopeful68

Hi Lesley - glad you had a good holiday. Moving on is a slow process and slower for some than others. I cant say 'I have moved on' and to be honest even if/when I get to 70 I will still have some regret but I also need to realise I have a life here and now and I can look out of the window or focus on the rear view mirror!! however I actually think DH is further behind than me even though it is something we both agree on. Next week it might be the other way around though! he has kids although wasn't a Dad to them and feels he has something to prove to himself and wont ever get the chance.....

Don't worry about 'no baby info' post this is about dealing with the BFN not TTC necessarily so we are here to support each other at what ever stage we are in our various journeys.

have a good week.


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## deblovescats

Glad to see you back on here lesley! You're always welcome whatever stage you're at! Glad you had a good holiday in Turkey! You need to take time to find your direction. 
hopeful - find your story inspiring and glad that your'e starting to enjoy yourself. I think whatever we do in life, we'll always have regrets about certain things.
AFM - had a good day at the beach - weather warm, but clouded over. However, yet again, the families seemed to gravitate to wherever I was! I find it so hard to deal with being around kids or pregnant women! I can't wait for the Royal Baby to arrive -then all the excitement can die down! Dreading it as well - fed up of all the focus on the pregnancy, baby etc. I know I sound horrible, but finding it hard at the moment to feel glad for people! I'm waiting at the moment for an appt with the clinic and then it will all feel real - going to ring the clinic this week to see when I can have an appt. Fed up of waiting but need to be patient. Got a busy week at work this week so should keep me occupied.
Hi to everyone else
Deb


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## Sushi Lover

Soooooo bored of hearing that the Duchess of Cambridge is in early stages of labour! zzzzzz. It's going to get worse as well !!

Hello everyone...

*Lesley* .. glad you enjoyed your holiday. I bet Turkey at this time of year was scorchio. Hopeful is right, this thread is more to uplift each other after a BFN, rather than baby stuff. Keep us in touch with your news.. I love to hear your animal stories/Shelley etc. Sorry to hear about your friend's baby. Wouldn't wish that upon anyone.

*Michelle*... all your activities over the weekend sound so much fun. I heard they closed the new tennis courts in Poole Park because it was too hot and they were melting?! My Mum went to see the polo on Sandbanks beach last weekend. She said it was really good. Such a lovely part of the world down there. Thanks for the little paragraph about car mirrors.. it's very true. Happy belated birthday to you!

*Debs*.... Seeing pregnant people wherever I go! Are there more of them, or do summer clothes make bumps more apparent?! The appointment you are waiting for... is that your pre-DE cycle appt? Or something else?

*AFM*... my insurance company refused to pay for my hysteroscopy and laparoscopy because they found out from my clinic notes I have a frozen embryo in storage  (typical that this one and only time I have a frostie it's worked against me some way!) They reckon I am using them to prepare for the transfer. Bearing in mind my consultant hasn't recommended either procedure before the other 9 transfers I've had, I'm not sure how they can make this assessment?! The specialist has said possible endometriosis on my letter and mentioned IVF in the past, so I've not tried to cover this up. I was so cross and upset. They told me the day before.. some *****y, sanctimonious woman basically accusing me of lying about my symptoms. I think they get some sort of kick out of refusing to pay for treatment. She sounded almost pleased on the phone. So stressed, upset, emotional... why does nothing ever go right? It seems a struggle to achieve anything. Back down the NHS route now. Sigh. There is always something.

xxx


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## RachelMaria

Hi Lesley and all you other lovely ladies.

Your right Lesley - I am not sure we ever give up hope - or lose the wanting - I am probably more at terms with a 'childless' future than I was this time last year.  Me and DP have discussed all the things we can afford to do if we don't have bambinos - great holidays - maybe only working part time if we can get the mortgage paid off - being 50 year old hippies etc (he want a moter bike but will be putting my foot down on that one).

but..I am still not ready to give up - don't hold out much hope on the Clomid route I am taking at the moment as there are no real success rates for 'ladies of a certain age' - refuse to let this infertility thing rule my life (when I am feeling positive) and when not so feeling so positive wonder what I have ever done to deserve this (a bit woe is me type thing) - but what I am going to try to do is just deal with things as they are thrown at me (or not thrown!) - what other choice do I really have?

Went to a great family party at the weekend which was really great - saw my 30 odd year old cousin who is just fit to burst with her first baby being due next month - which to be honest was not as bad as I had thought - I rubbed her belly for good luck - has to disappear for a little while when the baby talk got too much  but it really wasn't that bad - then news this morning of the 'royal labour' starting - blood good luck to them I really like her, but sometimes, when you deal with what we deal with, you just don't want it everywhere in your face - never mind - will maybe have a nice large G&T when I get home to wet the babies head (as I will stay positive, I will stay positive............)

Hope you wonderful ladies are all OK today?


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## ajw

Hi everyone. Just a quick one before I try to go for a run. I say try, as it's still 34 degrees here in Paris!
Hope you're all coping with the world's preoccupation with the imminent arrival... Parties planned all over the place by people who don't even know her! Amazing really. 

I can tell you, if I ever have a baby I'm going to have the biggest party ever!!! 

Spoke to the doctor today and even though he's back from holiday on 21st August, the clinic doesn't open again until September, so I cant start as early as I'd hoped    I've also been invited to a hen weekend just about when I'll be starting tx    Typical! Only person not drinking and they'll all be guessing I'm pregnant  Will probably burst into tears if someone asks me  

Well have a nice evening in the sun. Get out and enjoy it while it lasts. I'm off to Poland for work tomorrow, so hoping it's a bit cooler there...

ajw x


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## LellyLupin

Brace yourselves girls - Royal Baby News on loop just to make us feel better


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## deblovescats

hope you're all holding up with the Royal Baby news! Of course I'm pleased for them (really I am) - I'm just sick of having it all thrust in our faces - especiallly for those of us not yet lucky enough to have a baby or be pregnant. At least now the anticipation can end and the excitement will die down in due course. If I was in the same situation, I could be happy about it!
Typical kirsty- we don't ask for much, but then they don't want to pay out on the few occasions we ask. These people who fall pregnant naturally don't know how lucky they are - there's never any question of how much they cost us all is there - with maternity leave, antenatal and pregnancy care. (I hate sounding bitter) I really hope you can get it sorted soon.
kirsty - hope you're feeling ok despite being back from hols! 
ajw - i agree with you - I think we should all have a massive party if we get our dream!
At least - the news about the Tour de France was amazing - 2nd consecutive Brit to win! And on the 100th anniversary as well!
AFM - off on training course tomorrow (travellling with 2 colleagues fortunately) - all about our new computer system. kirsty - yes my appointment is pre DE treatment - the Donor Co-Ordinator rang me back today after I left a message - booked one for August. The clinic is shut in august - evidently they'r having extensions.refurbishment done. So I'm getting a bit excited. Got a trip to Dublin planned for end of August, before starting tx - (my sister won flights and hotel with BA who she works for) so should be good. Just throw in a good looking Irishman and i'll be happy!
Deb


----------



## fififi

Popping by to say hello since lots of posts in last few days. Life my end busy as ever despite school hols starting week & half ago now so rather than manic with work its just my crazy homelfe I'm trying to get on top of! Not had chance to speak with my clinic yet as to why still not heard anything re donor match - people I need to talk to are generally only available early afternoon & I never seem to be home then. Not really the conversation to have when round a friends house as keeping DE side private for now. Will need to speak to someone by end of week as off to Northern Spain next week to visit all my friends for 16 days ... and hopefully some beach time too. Really looking forward to time away from home & all the reminders of how c-r-a-p life has been of late. Despite living in UK for nearly 12 years now I still don't feel as settled as I did living in Spain & miss the lifestyle so much. People seem to make much better use of non work time & socialise far more than here. Plus for me two close friends had IVF to get their children so it'll be nice to spend time with people who understand.

Royal baby news really hacking me off now - though part of me feels bit sorry for Kate having the whole thing made public & no chance to just enjoy the gift they've been blessed with. Agree with you AJW over celebrating big time if we get the dream but equally think I'd want some me & baby time too ... plus at least we'd get to choose our own baby name not be restricted to 3/4 Royal ones!

Wishing everyone smiles over next few weeks (& longer too!!!)


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## MJ1

Morning Ladies,

*Kirsty,* arghhhhhhh your post made me feel sooo angry re the insurance. Why is everything we do such a hard battle. I am not surprised you were upset. Where does it end.... 

*Lesley*, nice to hear from you. Your stories about Shelly really make me chuckle. 

*Fififi,* Yes the royal baby news is getting a bit tiresome now.... yawn. But they did look so happy whem they left the hospital yesterday. 

*RachelMaria*, good luck on the clomid 

AFM, not much to report, not really thinking too much about being matched and DE. Busy with Wedding plans and the date is now booked for next August! Holiday is one month today! so looking forward to another cruise, plus we booked our Honeymoon on the Queen Victoria (Cunard), bit of luxury I thought and can't wait. DP is busy selling his house and then we are hoping to buy something together, our dream home at last.... so all go just not the babified news


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## fififi

OMG ... just got call from clinic re potential egg donor and am all in a flurry!!!
Details sound good but got to wait until tonight when DH home to decide ... but had to tell "someone" as going nuts home alone!!!
Very wierd place to be - mixture of excitement, fear, happiness & sadness all at once.


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## MJ1

Fififiiiiiii


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## fififi

Thanks MJ1 Tummy still all over place! Had phoned to see where on wait list I was so rather surprised to discover I was next in line.

Do you know where you are on wait list? Lost track of where you've got too I'm afraid - do hope you get good match soon x


----------



## MJ1

Hi Fififi, we are at the top too, we were matched last month but the donor wasn't suitable so we declined. Just waiting for the next one now! Good luck with your journey and keep us posted. 
MJ xx


----------



## fififi

Mj1 - if its not too personal a question can I ask why you declined initial donor? Perhaps PM me rather than post here. Am currently weighing up pros/cons of donor offered and would welcome others experiences x


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## LellyLupin

Fifi - Hurrah how exciting. xxx


----------



## LellyLupin

Quick question - are any of you girls a social worker?  I need some advice about a difficult situation x


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## MJ1

Sorry Lesley no. Hope someone can help.
Fififi, there were numerous factors as to why we pulled out. The main factor was that she wasn't British.
X


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## fififi

Mj1 - thanks.
Hope great match comes through for you sometime soon

Lesley - afraid I can't help either. Hope you sort problem out


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## julesbfd

Evening

Lesley - I am a s worker although currently at home recovering from open myomectomy.  Don't know the situation but what I would say is if your gut is telling you something,go with that instinct

Jules x


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## hopeful68

Lesley - I would second Jules's comment but if you need to run something over PM me and I can have a look. not a social worker but as a paramedic do a lot of safe guarding referrals as part of my job.


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## LellyLupin

Jules/Hopeful

I have PM'd you both for an opinion, just not sure if I need to be worried xx

AFM having a 'wish I was a mum' day and feeling sorry for myself - I need a kick up the  ^shake!!


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## LellyLupin

Why does watching Long Lost Families make me long for a baby all the more?  Does it have the same effect on anyone else?


----------



## MJ1

Hi Lesley, 

It makes me cry.... I get so emotional I can't watch it and yes it does make me long for a child all the more and why people give up their precious children   

MJ1 x


----------



## RachelMaria

I'm with you on that one girls - cannot watch that programme without crying - usually all the way through - such heartbreaking stories xx


----------



## Salad4

Hi all - sorry for the lengthy silence - I have been watching the board, but lacking any words of wisdom for anyone (or even for myself!).  It is amazing in some ways watching us all on our own journeys - there are so many strong women on this thread.  Maybe we don't feel so strong when we're having a weepy day, but actually we are.
I am currently going through an OE cycle.  It has been very similar to last time - where I needed 16 days stims and only got a few follicles.  This time there are only three that they think could potentially have eggs in and I'm going in for egg collection on Monday.  
Fifii - great news about being matched.  Going through a painful and most likely unsuccessful cycle with my eggs at the moment, DE looks pretty good to me.
Deb - good luck with the next cycle.  
AJW - the time will pass and I guess on the brighter side it will give you time to prepare??  
Lesley - glad you had a good holiday - you deserved it.
Kirsty, RachelMaria, MJ1, Hopeful, Jules, hope everything is ok.
Sally


----------



## Moominmum

Hello lovely lovely ladies,

Just a quick hello to everyone to say that I am thinking about you and following this thread. Whilst I am fairly certain there will be no more tx for us I am still hoping for that natural miracle...

Tomorrow I am off with DH and DS for a two weeks break home which will be nice (Danmark and Sweden).

Lots of    

Moominmum


----------



## Ronnie3007

Sorry been away girls ...  I have not had a proper AF for 10 weeks now so getting extremely fed up    ... I am having symptoms of it coming but ..........  Hopefully soon so that I can start the clomid again.


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi girls  

Sally good luck for Monday this could be the one  

Ronnie keep your chin up  

I am off to see the long lost family I found for the Mother in Law in a couple of weeks, our very own version of the show.  I am so looking forward to seeing them again and visiting Kirriemuir.  Had the 'IVF' talk with MIL today,  she still can't see that its a private process but she got a lot off her chest.  She still says I should see DPs kids as mine she will never understand the need to have my own,  so I have given up trying to explain myself.  She said she was very hurt that I didn't tell her and nothing I can say will change that so hey ho I am done with it.  She said she would have given me 10k for treatment but now she thinks I am too old, how I didn't slap her I will never know.  People not in our situation will never understand the hurt.

Love to all xx


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## deblovescats

hi guys
thanks salad
lesley - hope you're doing ok. I totally empathise with you about MIL - she sounds totally unaware of what you're going through and your needs. You just need to put yourself first for once and do what you want to do.
AFM -- i'm just waiting to cycle again. got an appt with Donor Specialist Nurse next week to discuss treatment plan and work out date when I'll be cycling. I've got basic info about both donors, which is scary to see in print. I'm excited, but v. nervous. I've also arranged to meet up with a small group of women who are also going it alone - got together via DCN and FF. So I'm hoping to get inspiration and support from them as well. 
IN a couple of weeks I'm off for a short break with my sister in Dublin - courtesy of a BA comp so only had to pay train travel! She won hotel and flights. We've also booked to see Riverdance.
Was my sister's birthday yesterday so we had a day on the beach - weather great, then had cake etc. Trouble is it sets you thinking about where you're at etc- plus there's all those families with babies!!! Not good.
Deb


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## LellyLupin

Hi Debs  its all sounding very exciting for you, I bet you can't wait.   Did you have counselling about DE?  What info do you get about the donors?  Just curious cos I think I would want to do DE if only DP would consent to it.  If I am honest,  I just wish I could forget the whole baby thing,  but just when I think I've got it cracked something jumps up and bites me on the ass.  Saying that yesterday I had a visit from my God daughter and she was a nightmare,  and for a split second I thanked my lucky stars I didn't have one, I just need more of those moments instead of the panicky ones I get about never being a mother     How come you still feel upset when you see families and babies, just think soon you will have your very own, you should be feeling excited instead xx


----------



## RachelMaria

Lesley - I know exactly what you are saying - I am trying to remain positive about life with children, but am not ready to give up - when I hear the kids next door (three under the age of four) screaming non stop - I think alreighty then glad I dont have to hear that in my own house, but then the panic moods are much more frequent in terms of not having kids! - what a nightmare!


----------



## deblovescats

i agree sometimes rach and lesley - at times you think thank goodness i don't have any! Not ready to give up on my dream though.
AFM - had my appt at Care today with Donor Nurse - very positive. Had a little blip - plan was to start tx Sept and donor has started DR, however, my period decided to mess things up - started early, last cycle only 20 days - so plan is now to start DR Sept and to have tx Oct. It's a bit disappointing - was all geared up for Sept but main thing is to make sure it's at the right point for cycle = want to give it my best shot. The nurse also asked today if I wanted to see the pen portraits of the donors - so of course I said yes - she's going to send me them.  All ready to go now, and have my Dublin break in between.
Deb


----------



## Salad4

Hi everyone.  It's test day for me today, so I was amazed to get a BFP.  First one ever - I thought I was going to go through my life without ever getting that.  And whilst I'm excited I'm also very aware of the odds of a chemical pregnancy or miscarriage and so I'm trying not to get too excited.  I'd been gearing myself up to move straight on to DE as a friend of mine had offered to be the donor before she turns 40 (which is the advise cut off date at the Lister for known donors) so I feel a bit confused.  Anyway, one step at a time.  
Debs - good luck with the pen portraits.  I think I'd be looking for someone with all the characteristics that I would have liked - curly hair, darker skin, longer legs (oops given myself away as shallow, haven't I?)
RachelMaria, LesleyLupin - I know what you mean about the panic when you see babies.  There was a couple with a toddler at the Lister when I was having my last scan and I can't bear that - I can't help but feel that they're rubbing it in - I know they probably can't help it, but I feel vulnerable enough when I'm at the clinic as it is.
Lesley - hope the MIL was ok.
Ronnie - seems weird to say it, but hope AF has started so you can get going on the Clomid.
Moomin - hope you had a lovely holiday in Scandinavia
Fifi - how are you going with the donor?  Any good news?
Hugs & good thoughts to MJ, Hopeful, Jules & anyone else I've missed off.
Sallyx


----------



## fififi

Salad    - wow!!!! Big congrats to you. Will send lots of wishes your way that you make it all the way. Such wonderful news.


AFM - just back from holiday so was just popping by. Had lovely time but wasn't able to switch head off from baby thoughts so not as relaxed as hoped. Getting donor match days before leaving meant head was very full of thoughts/nervousness, plus when AF came it left me feeling worse than ever since I knew that was my last chance of getting OE baby. Every month hurts a little but this time it all felt so final. I guess I'm still not 100% happy with DE but not sure I ever will be. I know it's the best way for us to get the baby we so badly want yet part of me still feels sad/hurt that it won't be my eggs we'll be using. We can't afford time or money to try again after this so want it to be our best shot. Hoping that all that I've read about DE that its just nerves making me feel this way.
Got huge knock down this afternoon as my closest friend in UK sent me a text to say she's pg. She's always been my point of reference as I thought if she's happy then I could be too. When my IVFs failed shes always been there with cake & wine talking about how it doesn't matter & that just having the one child is much easier.  Shes always been fairly adamant they wouldn't have another so this is a big bolt out of the blue. It's so hard to know what to say to her as I should be really pleased for her yet her news has made me feel even more useless & sad than ever. I just wish I knew what I'd done wrong in life to deserve this much pain?
Why, oh why, is life so cruel to all of us - doesn't make any sense that we can't achieve this dream when everyday ladies who don't even want a baby get pg just like that.
Ps. Salad - my rant is not directed at you in any way. Rather ironically I'm actually more excited about your news than I ever will be about my own "friends". If only the text had been from you then I'd have been all smiles and full of hope instead of walking round Tesco's wearing sunglasses to hide my tears.


----------



## MJ1

Wow Sally fantastic news     
True one step at a time and enjoy. I hope you have a smooth pregnancy  

AFM, not much to report, cruising in a weeks time and can't wait. Wedding plans going well, church and venue booked for next August! All gone very quiet at Lister, oh well.... 

Love to all
MJ xxx


----------



## fififi

Aggghhhhhhhh - just been contacted by one of my sisters to say she's pg too!!!! Am definitely not having a good day. Plus now me & DH not talking as he can't see why I'm upset & not pleased for everyone. So feel totally pants & now have DH who doesn't understand me. Might just go to bed.



Mj1 - hope you have brill cruise. From experience best if you don't speak to clinic until your return so that you get a proper holiday away from TTC.
One disadvantage of DE is fact you're dependant on others & lose control over when cycle. Think all this waiting for match is no good for feelings. I for one wasn't able to just put it into back of head & forget about it. Hope you've been better at waiting than me, especially since its been longer for you.


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Sally*... wow! What wonderful news!! I didn't even know you had another cycle lined up?! You kept that one quiet missus! I really hope it works out for you. How amazing to get your first ever BFP in your 40's... gives me so much hope. I'm so pleased for you. Can you share all the details with us? Protocol, how many eggs, fertilisation rate, how many transferred etc? Or would you rather keep it all a bit low key for the time-being?

*Fififi*.... Poor you hun, I know exactly how you feel. I went to a family BBQ on Saturday and my cousin is 5 months pregnant. First time I've seen her since the announcement and I was shocked to see how pronounced the bump is already. My uncle started talking to me about the IVFs... saying how sorry he is to hear it's not working and I just started crying! I don't know where it came from, but I couldn't stop. Everyone was staring at me and I had to go upstairs. It was awful. It's not my cousin's fault and she looked so awkward, bless her, I just couldn't handle it at all. The baby is due around Christmas Day. Makes me feel sick and panicky thinking about it... and I hate feeling that way. But the jealously eats away at you when it's someone close doesn't it? I hope you can get DH to understand. Men are funny creatures sometimes. I don't get it either why our dreams don't come true and yet others fall pregnant at the drop of a hat. Maybe we want it too much? And that tension works against us? Sigh, just not fair is it? It's just not possible to stop wanting a baby so much!

p.s. Salad... my emotional outburst not directed at you either.. I mirror Fifi's sentiments exactly!

*MJ*... you must be so excited about your cruise. Glad all the wedding plans are going to plan. Lovely. That's odd about the Lister? Did you have another choice of donor yet? After the first match?

Hi to* Lesley, Ajw, Deb, Rachel, Moomin, Jules, Bernie, Ella, Michelle, Chand, CoolJules, Roxy, Ronnie* - Not sure who is still reading?!

*AFM*... waiting for Hysteroscopy and Laparoscopy appt on NHS before going ahead with FET... in the meantime, found a new acupuncturist who deals specifically with infertility. Trying that again once a week, plus a vile concoction of Chinese herbs morning and evening. It makes me want to throw up at 7am I can tell you! ...girls, I'll try anything...

xxx


----------



## Coolish

Hi guys, hope you don't mind me popping on to wish *Sally* congratulation! Really good news xx

*Fififi* - Sorry to hear you're still struggling a bit with DE. Believe me, once you get pregnant with DE, you won't be sad about your own eggs, you'll be happy for YOUR baby xx


----------



## RachelMaria

Hi Sally

You go girl!!!!! - keeping everything crossed for you.

FiFiFi - I know how you feel honey - my cousin whi I love dearly is just about ready to pop (she is a lot younger than me) and has been posting big belly pictures on ******** - I am really happy for her and rub her belly everytime I see her in the hope it can bring me some good luck - but it does make me panic a bit more when the 'younger generations' of my family are all starting families xxx


----------



## cornwall

Hi everyone,

I haven't posted for a while but have been reading daily. I was going to wait a bit longer before sharing my news but, as some of you are struggling, 
I hope this will give you the strength and courage to keep going.
I had my third cycle of DEIVF in July and am now almost 6 weeks pregnant! Still not ready to fully believe it but the HPTs are telling me it's true.
I'm going to have a private scan when I'm 8 or 9 weeks and just praying all is ok.
BTW I'm 49 and very nearly 50.


----------



## fififi

Cornwall - that's fab news    
So pleased that yet another member of the life after BFN thread is now officially in the grinning from ear to ear thread. Do keep us posted as to how things go. It's so crazy after all we're going through in the hope of a BFP that even when it comes there's still so any worries. Really hoping you (& Salad) are nervous for no reason & will soon be very happy mummies   

Cooljoules - thank you for the reassurances.
Do keep popping by and reminding us that joy is also part of this process.
Take care of you & enjoy that ever growing bump  

Salad - keep on grinning  

RachelMaria & Kirsty - thanks for words of support. In the nice-ist way I feel relieved to know I'm not the only one struggling with other people's news, despite having spent so many years in this position!
I just wish we could discover the secret to achieving the dream - rubbing pg bellies, eating disgusting herbs, taking more vitamins & supplements in one day than the average person takes in a year ... I've even travelled for several hours on the worst roads ever when in Thailand to goto a shrine cos locals said it was proven to help fertility!!!! (My insides were so shaken after the journey think the shrine, should it have any power, would have givenme up as a lost cause anyway!!!)

Kirsty - do you have any indication when your op will be? Will you know the surgeon or is it totally separate from your clinic? (My hysto & lap in Feb was on NHS but with my clinic consultant)
Hope you don't have to wait much longer.
Can't remember what you said you'd do next - another OE cycle or move to DE? Or is it dependent on op?

Moom - hope you're enjoying your holiday

Lesley - hope things going a bit better for you now & MIL situation less stressful

Debs - sorry you've delayed cycle a bit but hopefully the blip is for a good reason. How did you get on reading the pen portrait? Hope you're still feeling excited about your cycle  

Hi to anyone else I've missed - brain not really with it so apologies   

AFM - feeling slightly better today. Managed to talk with my friend & not completely lose it whilst she spoke about the unexpectedness of her pg!!!! Still seems so unfair that people who have no interest in getting pg seem to be the ones who are given hat joy.
Also managed to speak briefly to sister but have come up with excuses so she doesn't come & stay next weekend as originally planned. I might be feeling stronger but not up to coping with a visitor suffering with morning sickness!!!


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Cornwall*.. Wowee!! Wonderful news. I am truly so pleased for you. Praying everything will be ok on the 8/9 week scan.

*Fififi*.....They've told me the op will be 12 - 18 weeks from the GP referral.. so that will be Mid Oct - late Nov. So it's ages away! I'm hoping it will still be quicker than that to be honest. The surgeon is a lady gynae from a local private hospital (the NHS 'overflow' their patients there). So not my clinic or my fertility consultant. I went to see her separately from all the treatment stuff because of pelvic pain. Referral from my GP. After that I have one frozen blasto to use from my June cycle.. so will have a FET around December/January time. Also, by that time I should be near the top of the donor list. So our plan B is to go for a DEIVF in March of next year. I'm not 100% happy in my head with DE still as you aren't. Something inside me still encourages me to try with OE "just one more time"! I wonder if that ever stops unless you know for sure with genetic testing? I still think my lining is too thin rather than poor egg quality. But not sure if I'm kidding myself. Maybe that's just human nature... to want to persevere? I wish I knew the answer hun, the Thailand trip made me giggle! It does seem the people that are kind of "if it happens, then so be it, but I'm not too bothered" ...are the ones that fall pregnant easily. Surely there has to be some logic in that right? They are just super relaxed about it! Take care.

xxx


----------



## Coolish

Cornwall - congratulations! I'm 48 and will be 49 when this LO is due. We have 3 frosties out at Serum so by the time we go back for them, I'll be 49 going on 50. My BMI, blood pressure and fitness is still loads better than the other ladies I saw at antenatal this week


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## MJ1

Hi Girls,

Oh wow what lovely news to read for Cornwall and Cool Jules! I filled up! happy tears....

*Kirsty,* I have not heard from the Lister since our unsuitable match on June 7th! funny how you remember the exact date. I did contact them last week to tell them that we would be away soon and they just acknowledged it with an e-mail saying that they had noted the dates? 
Sorry to hear that you had a sad day with you cousin, it is really hard. I had the same with my SIL and the double christening last year which I told you all about, it doesn't get any easier. But is sounds like you have every base covered with you own frostie and back up DE. I know what you mean about the DE thing and it still bugs me too but we will wait and see, at this rate I might just be walking down the aisle with a bump, something that I really didn't fancy 5 years ago at the start of this journey and would now give anything for 

Oh well off on hols Saturday and catch up with you all when I get back, another year older on 30th.... will be 43.

MJ1 xxx


----------



## artist_mum

hi everyone
Have been reading from time to time and just seen all these lovely posts on here

*cooljules* and *cornwall* - as an older lady myself, i can't tell you how good it is to hear your stories. I will be 48 in October. Good to hear you are both getting there 

*salad* great news and all the very best going forward now.

*fififi* *kirsty* *mj1, moomin, lesley, ajw,* hi all of you and sorry not to keep up so much, I kind of miss you but life is going crazy around me so just hanging on in there til calmer waters!

AFM Have just finished AB for hidden C and am booked in to serum for hysto and poss laparoscopy in September. Problem is that my partner's ex wife has dropped a court date on him last week for finances (court in November) so we have cancelled our wedding and re-mortgage as I've been advised not to expose my home/finances to her demands! They completed it all in 2009 but not before the court so now she wants more. This means we don't have money to go over to Serum for the hysto or treatment. So not sure at the mo what to do and have felt very upset and anxious about things. Seeing a solicitor this week to confirm if I'm implicated & I"m seeing a counsellor as I'm just wondering what my life is about?!?! I still really want to go to Serum.

Hi to everyone else reading and good luck with your journeys...

Roxy xx


----------



## artist_mum

*debs, jules, hopeful, rachelmaria* sorry missed you off! And anyone else too

xx


----------



## ajw

Wow! Congratulations Sally and Cornwall!  
We really needed some good news to give us all hope.

Fifi and Sally, I know how you're feeling. Just got back from a camping holiday and was surprised at how sad I felt watching everyone else play with their kids. I kept looking at them and thinking how many of the women with toddlers looked my age if not older, so how come they could manage it!?

The week before a friend texted me to say she couldn't come to a girls night I'd organised, as she was tired and going to have an early night as she's 4 months pregnant... Actually I was so relieved that she cancelled, as if she'd turned up, bump and all, without me knowing in advance I don't know how I would have reacted.

Roxy, I don't know what to say to you. You must be fuming! What an ex!! What a pity to have to cancel the wedding too, but I can see that it's the best way to stop her in her tracks and get a legal settlement first. Let's hope it all goes through quickly so you can get back on track with the wedding and the treatment. Good luck with the solicitor.

Well I'm off to see the gyn tonight. He's finally back from his 3 week holiday, so I'm going to see how soon I can do another cycle. Still need an x-ray to check on my endometriosis, but I'm putting that to the back of my mind. Enough things have gone wrong for me this year. No more obstacles allowed  

Enjoy the sun ladies!
AJWx


----------



## hopeful68

Hi all, sorry to do a rush post, been soooo busy my head is spinning. not had time to read everyone's posts but see some congrats symbols so good things can happen - good luck!!

just finished a mad set of shifts and am running about getting packed for a w/end at dad's, - he is away in France with his fiancé so it is a cheap w/end break for the pair of us! 

I hope everyone is doing OK - I will endeavour to write a proper update soon - not that I have much to update!! just getting on with life and still learning to live again! 

take care - positive energies to you - use them as you need!!!
       

have a good bank holiday w/end - stay dry on Saturday!!
M


----------



## cornwall

Hello everyone,

Well, after a very long two weeks of hospital stays, HCG tests and scans, I learnt today that my pregnancy has gone. I've had no bleeding so don't know when or why. HCG was rising but too slowly, scans showed nothing, they worried about ectopic. Today, the HCG has dropped to 10.
It's been a very hard couple of weeks, not knowing whether to feel positive or accept the inevitable. I'm very upset but relieved to have a definite answer. I can now grieve and move on to my next cycle.


----------



## fififi

Cornwall - so, so sorry to see your post      

No idea why life has treated you so unfairly. Having got so far with joyous news to suddenly be thrown to the ground with such force is the worst experience possible. Can't imagine how you've coped these last 2 weeks.

Having experienced MMC at 10 weeks I have slight idea of the pain and numbness you might be feeling so if you feel it would help to talk PM me whenever you want. I found the FF board for pregnancy loss quite helpful at the time so that might be somewhere you could go to find others in similar place.

Wish I could say or do something to help. Please know I'm thinking of you lots


----------



## RachelMaria

Cornwall - I am so sorry honey xxx


----------



## hopeful68

cornwall, so sorry to hear that. I can understand where you are having been through the same thing last year. positive test and then an empty sack and 3 scans later allowed to stop the botty bombs for the MC. all the ups and downs that went with that really tried my strength and stressed the marriage, I also imagine I am not the only one on here who has been in your shoes in one way or another so feel free to vent, rant, and ponder with us - I am sure we can all try and offer a wise word or virtual shoulder. Life is such a *****. however you seem to be focusing on the next cycle which will be a positive goal to aim for and good luck with it!   


Hi to EVERYONE else. sorry I haven't done any other personals - feel a bit out of the loop at the moment due to the mad work life I have had recently I haven't had a chance to log in ! I am on day 1 of a 13 day break from work - not going anywhere due to lack of dog sitters but with the nice weather I am happy enough at home!! will post properly during the next week. stay positive.....
M


----------



## artist_mum

*cornwall* Thinking of you, so very sorry to hear your news. I went through similar in April, I remember the stress of loads of HCG tests, numbers not rising quickly enough, trying to be hopeful etc. It is a very tough process. The hope and disappointment are just so difficult to handle emotionally. As fififi says, the boards on here for loss seemed to help me. I hope you find your way forward and that you will have success next time. 

*ajw* Thanks for your response before, it's hit hard really because I will be 48 in October and was supposed to go to Serum this week so we could get on with things. It does feel so unfair when the ex has 2 lovely kids that she can't just leave us alone. All too often it comes down to money. Trying not to dwell on it and make sure I get over to Serum for one last go at this. I was looking at your signature, you have been through so much - i do hope you get going now with things and your gyn helps you get cycling very soon

hi everyone else xxx


----------



## deblovescats

hi everyone
it seems to have gone a bit quiet on here! I have been lurking but haven't posted for a while for 2 reasons - 1) i was waiting for some news and 2) I have been struggling to get on the site despite logging in.
AFM - I've received the pen portraits and found them enlightening, i was especially happy about the egg donor - it was very sensitive and thoughtful, and i was amazed to find characteristics in common - especially liked the creative side. 
I had a zoladex ( goserelin) injection on mon to down reg, and have scan booked for 20th Sep. It's good to get back on track after my early period! The intention is for the donor to start stims on 9th Oct, and for ET w/c 21st Oct. It's all pretty exciting but also scary = makes you realise the enormity of it. I think it's the thought of having to do it alone (although I have family support). I haven't shared it with anyone at work yet - don't want all the gossip and commiserations if it's a BFN. I wish I could be sharing the journey with a partner, but haven't met Mr Right. However, I need to go for it or I'll regret it - you never know when Mr Right might be waiting! 
Deb


----------



## ajw

Cornwall, I can't even imagine what you're going through. I'm so sorry. What a roller coaster of emotions. 
Hope your pain eases and you can pick yourself back up and look to the future. 
  

AFM started another cycle. Had my first scan and blood test this morning. Only 3 follies showing, but after my nightmare last night, dreaming that there were none, I feel ok. Hoping there's time for a few more to grow. 

Hope everyone has a good week. 
Ajw x


----------



## artist_mum

*deblovescats* Completely agree with you, Mr Right arrives in his own good time! I think you are absolutely right to go for it. When I look back, if i had gone for it earlier I believe my partner and I would simply be parenting his 2 (from previous) and my one (if I'd had one!). Instead of which we are hoping so much to have my one (our one!) together with time a little less on our side... Best of luck with your cycle xxx

*ajw* Best of luck with yours too xxx


----------



## hopeful68

Hello world!! feeling quite out of many loops at the moment!! - partly intentional some of it though!!

Debs - it must be quite nerve wracking for you at the moment, I admire your courage and wish you all the success for the DE process and hope you get your dream. hopefully Mr Right will find his way along your road too shortly so you can raise your kid(s) together!

Cornwall - I hope things are rationalising themselves for you given the passing of time - although the time needed gets longer the older we get! I am glad you have some positives to focus on though and wish you all the best with the cycle - which isn't that far away now!!

AJW - fingers crossed the other follies are hiding ready to jump out in fully glory in the next day or so. however do remember it only requires one and to have one that works is better than 20 that are duff. 

Roxy - just read back a few posts and saw yours - on top of everything else to have to cancel something you are so looking forward to is a right pain (keeping it clean!!). however I guess for the long term security for both of you the finances are better this way. I am still reciting my mantra that things happen for a reason and although you cant see it right now there is a reason for this. hang in there and it will right itself, the worry is how long that will take and you knowing you have enough strength to get to the reason. Sounds like DP is supportive so you will be fine!!

AFM - another AF this week so no miracles!  My OPs manager has called an end to my secondment so my off the road time has ended as of yesterday and I will back out on the ambos full time once I am off leave. mixed feelings really. it was hard juggling 2 roles, it was nice having the down time from the pesky patients!!!!  - especially the young mums popping babies out and moaning about it all! but the job did have links to my cycle in that I was only there initially as I was pregnant (all be it briefly!) and I was kept on after that. in some ways this is another step towards moving on with life. if I am asked to go back it will be on different terms and different reasons! the crappy part is that having found out yesterday I, and being on leave for 2 wks I have spent virtually all of today sorting out leave which was booked and is no longer needed but booking other dates that are, forwarding half finished work for other to complete etc - my head was spinning with lists last night so didn't sleep much.... will probably think of more tonight!!

the dog is still hanging on in there - and doing pretty well really. I hadn't figured on him getting this far through the year but so far, so good, he might even make 16yrs in Nov at this rate!! - however no dog sitters came forward so leave is at home and not abroad - saves a ££ or 2 though!
Dad is off on yet another holl with his fiancé - really don't think we will be best of friends. she is very materialistic and I am NOT! she is pretty glamoured up and cant go out without makeup on, I tend not to use makeup that much (and probably have stuff I had a school in my bag it gets used that little (20+ yrs - how scary is that!!) - just a clash I think so grin and bare it!

well sorry to hog the page!! hope you are all well in your own way and remaining positive. Hugs to you all....
M


----------



## LellyLupin

Wow I turn my back for a minute and look at what has been happening.

Firstly Sally huge congratulations           and with your own egg too, I bet you nearly fell over when you did your test    Do keep us up to date with how you are feeling.

Roxy huge sympathy on the ex wife front, she must be jealous if she feels she has to make your life miserable, I hope she gets a big fat zero out of the court date  

Cornwall I am so very very sorry,  I don't know what to say to comfort you   

Hopeful so glad your pup is still going strong, my pup will be 16 in February, she won the Goldies Oldies section of the local dog show.  I was ridiculously proud, probably a good job I don't have kids I would be a pushy mother  

To all of you struggling at the moment (especially Feefs) I know just how you feel  ,  its my bi-polar friends babys Christening on Sunday and I am already feeling anxious.  Sam is such beautiful baby  I can't help feeling envious.  I haven't been on here as I was trying to put it all out of my head but ya know it doesn't seem to make any difference, I was hoping by avoiding any talk of babies the feeling would go away but nope its still niggling me.  I know that if DP would consent to it I would be going down the DE route.  I think we all struggle at some point, I wish I was more like Hopeful in a PMA way, I have even thought about getting hypnotised to try and block all thoughts of babies  xx

Hi to Kirsty (hope your op goes well xx) and MJ, Rachel Jules and anyone else I have missed xx

Debs hope everything clicks into place for you, you will be a fabulous mother  

Ajw good luck girl hope your follies blossom into a beautiful baby, you deserve a break after all you've been through xx

Well girls just a quick post to catch up a little.

Much love to all of you xx

PS back in MILs good books, but haven't really forgiven her for making it 10 times worse.


----------



## hopeful68

Lesley, re my PMA - it has taken a long time to get where I am in my level of acceptance of my situation. I have been determined to 'get on with life'. occasionally I get blind sided my someone else's news about being pregnant and the resentment, jealousy etc all rear their heads. But I am determined I am not going to live in the past and waste my present or future. it takes work and it is hard forcing a positive attitude but it is worth it. a comment I read on ** the other day said 'your body hears everything you brain thinks, so be positive'. positive breeds positive and vice versa. tiny steps, but you have to eliminate all 'what if options' so you are not wondering about them - they hold you back. only you can make your tiny steps forward - we are all here to help you take them!

enjoy your Sunday!!
M


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi Girls

Thanks for the PMA advice Hopeful, I only wished I'd read your comments before I left for the Christening.  I found I was very emotional surrounded by babies, the night before I seriously considered not turning up, then I realised I just couldn't run away from the situation and it wouldn't be polite to be a no show.  I was very jealous in the church thinking I would never get to christen a baby of my own.  Then I pulled myself together for the after party and even fed the baby so my friend could see to her guests.  Trouble is I didn't want to give him up    my arms just felt so empty when I handed him to someone else.  I got a bit upset on the way home and so did DP, he was in tears which I felt awful about.  He said he could see how much I was struggling and that he just felt so guilty and useless that he couldn't give me what I want,  and he was terrified I would leave him.  I felt so bad for him I guess I didn't realise how watching my reactions made him feel.  I promised myself I would try and hide it a bit better.  

To top the weekend off DP and his ex-wife fell out over the fact that she never lets the kids know that we contribute to their lives.  The kids just think she provides everything and that DP has nothing to do with it.  All we get is Mum bought me this, Mum bought me that, shes now gone out and bought Lucy a horse something that DP specifically said he didn't want her to have, as shes too young, knows nothing about looking after one and is a very lazy kid who won't even walk the dog.    Plus we are hardly getting to see the kids these days and now she'll want to be at the stables all weekend so when will DP get to see her?  She never considers that the kids are his too.  I hate being part of a blended family its so bloody stressful sometimes.

Rant over


----------



## fififi

Lesley - think you coped really well and am really proud of you being so kind despite the pain you were feeling   
Sorry to hear DP now got issues with ex. Do hope it gets resolved soon.

Not really in mood for posting I'm afraid. Life in my head is in total chaos ... was due to start DE cycle last week but AF not appeared and I'm now 9 days late. Waited 5 days before testing and even started feeling like a miracle had actually occurred but frustratingly it was a negative. So now I'm in limbo and can't think about anything else. GP will do blood test Fri but can't see that'll show anything.
So confused. Not what I wanted when I was already quite nervous about embarking on DE journey. Just hope this doesn't mess up things with the clinic and donor.

Hugs to everyone - apologies for ignoring everyone else's troubles - know lots of you suffering right now.
Will post properly soon xxxxxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hello lovely ladies,

Firstly, *Cornwall*... I'm so, so sorry to hear your sad news. I'm a bit late in posting, but still feel your pain. How are you feeling now?

*MJ*.... Hope you had a nice holiday in August and 'enjoyed' your birthday. They are all bitter sweet when trying to conceive in your 40's though. Still nothing from the Lister? How can they find you one match in June and no others for 3 months?!

*Roxy*.... did you have to cancel your hysteroscopy hun? That is so awful about ex. I suppose she's trying to get hold of your money too now is she?! Makes me so angry. How did you get on with the solicitor? Did the counsellor help at all? I hope you still managed to get to Serum.

*ajw*... how did your last cycle go? I see you had 2 follis on the 9th... what happened after that? What's the situation with your endo?

*Hopeful/Michelle*... How's life on the 'sunny' south coast?! We came down bank holiday weekend with DP's son and g/f.. think they enjoyed it despite the virtually zero enthusiasm!! Teenagers are a nightmare. I asked so many times if they were enjoying themselves because you can't tell. They said yes (well, sort of grunted a yes), but didn't go overboard?! How is your doggie doing now? How's work? Back to just the 1 role?

*Debs*.... Your DE cycle is coming up right? Do you still have a scan booked for Friday 20th?

*Lesley*... wow, you did amazingly well at the christening hun. Incredible that you fed the baby to give your friend time with her guests. Bless you.. you have such a big heart. Must have been heartbreaking to hand him back and I really feel for you and DP going home in the car sharing a few tears. This whole IF thing is totally heartbreaking. As for the witch.. grrhhh... these exes makes me so angry with their unreasonable demands and twisting things to suit them. You rant away!

*Fififi*.... how frustrating for you with the late AF. Every time I've even half a day late I start thinking a miracle has happened...and then it doesn't... it's so tough. Maybe you just didn't ovulate last month and it's upset your cycle a bit? I know that when I don't get a peak mid cycle, my AF is usually 3 or 4 days late. Can you try some things to start AF.... maybe raspberry leaf tea? That is brilliant news you are about to start your DE cycle though!! How amazing. I wish you the best of luck for that. Keep us in touch.

*Salad/Sally*... how is everything going with you lovie?

*AFM*... going in for my laparoscopy and hysteroscopy on Thursday. Really hope they find something! Then FET in November. I'm hoping 2013 ends better than it started to be honest.

xxx


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## hopeful68

Fififi - I have only had a missed AF once in my life and that was due to stress. I wonder if that could be your cause. not sure what 'alternative therapies' you are doing but perhaps something relaxing like reflexology can settle your hormones enough to get your journey back on track?

Lesley - I am glad my words helped a bit - if a little late!  . you mention hiding your feelings more, I don't know if that is a good thing or not, bottling things up leads to an explosion at some point. better letting things trickle out as they arise. if it isn't to your DP then here is a good place. I guess your DP no really 'gets' how you feel. however if it isn't anything he can help achieve he must feel very isolated and vulnerable. be gentle with him, he is probably as torn up emotionally as you, perhaps not about exactly the same things but just as fragile. Spend time making sure you are both confident in each other before moving on to a next step... - hark at me the agony aunt!! - must take my own advice some time!

Kristy - the sun has gone out on the south coast although we did have it up until last week!!! The dog is doing well and you wouldn't know the trauma he went through from Oct - May - and the trauma he put us through!! he looks like he has years not months left in him (fingers crossed!!)  Will be starting back on the road full time next week - looking forward to not juggling 2 jobs but will have some handover time to do so a busy few weeks ahead I think. Not looking forward to working with one of my 2 crew mates (who I have managed to avoid for 12 months- god he is so grumpy and bad tempered I will be pulling my hair out soon - probably within a few hours of the start of my first shift with him!! - that is one issue with 12 hr shifts they are very long when stuck in a cab with someone you don't get on with!!! my keep my PMA up to rise above it!!

hugs to everyone else. will catch up soon - need to go to do 3hrs hand over at work... (overtime while on leave!! - pocket money for Christmas!!).

M


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## Sushi Lover

Just a quickie....  got a call to say I've been found a DE match!  Talk about timing!....booked in for lap and hyst tomorrow and still have FET to do.  It's only been 3 months since I went on the list so I wasn't expecting this to happen quite so quickly.

I feel quite excited though...  like it's the next step on my journey to become a Mum.  Not the right time so will have to decline.  But reassuring and relaxing to know there is a definite plan B.

Physical attributes very similar to mine.  British and 30... already has a child.  Very promising!

xxx


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## MJ1

Hi girls,

Sorry for the long absence, doing Wedding stuff (got my dress last weekend!!) and had a lovely holiday thankyou* Kirsty *.
I did get a call from the Lister yesterday with a potential match, but sadly another no go.... she didn't have proven fertility which is a biggie for us. We have spent £££££ on IVF and if we are going to give DE a go then I want to try and find someone that has already conceived. 
*Kirsty* great news re the match, shame that it isn't the right time for you but that is promising to know that they are coming through  Good luck with your ops hun
*Cornwall* So sorry to hear your news hun,   life can be so cruel, maybe that is what makes us ladies so strong.
Sorry I have not gone through the pre-holiday threads so 'hi' to all.
Love MJ1 xxxxx


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## artist_mum

hi,

*kirsty* good to hear from you - hope the hysto and Lap has gone ok and you recover quick AND that you get interesting, useful results from them. Funny how the DE came up this week too, this stuff is like the buses isn't?! Wait and nothing happens then it all comes at once  Hope things come together for you nicely for November.
Yes, the ex wife thing is maddening. I could have a rant about how she is on legal aid to get money from my DP which he doesn't have (can't afford a solicitor himself) & sitting in a house worth £XXX,000 waiting to inherit a large sum - and yet the tax payer is paying for her to go to court for something they agreed in 2009.....  It really is infuriating. Counsellor quite helpful, solicitor told me to have him move out (but that is too complicated for us both to organise in a short time) so here we are just getting through things as best we can.

*lesley* Thx for your comments about EW (ex wife) & the court date and very well done you for getting to that christening and even taking care of the baby too. Sounds like you also need some sympathy/empathy for the ex situation - I know exactly what you mean about 'blended families' = STRESS! We have the same thing with money, she plays the poor single mother which is total nonsense (particularly as she is not even single!) but you know the kids do work it out later. Well I did! I hope things get clearer for you and your DP about YOUR life moving forward and perhaps if the kids are busy that gives you two the chance to do something nice without them. I do know it isn't that simple though but you know.. PMA and all that!

*fififi* sorry to hear about the late AF. Just typical! For the first time in ages mine has come on day 21 - and I am booked for a hysto in Athens early October on the assumption it would come day 27......aargh!!! So my sympathies to you it is annoying to say the least and I understand that it doesn't exactly help with nerves. Hope it is getting sorted and you can get on - wishing you lots of luck with it all.

*hopeful* Your PMA is inspiring. Thanks for this: "things happen for a reason and although you cant see it right now there is a reason for this. hang in there and it will right itself" Amazingly helpful (helpful hopeful!). I have picked up a book by Emma Cannon (The babymaking bible) and she reckons 4 months to prepare the womb so there you go.. i needed this time which Ex Wife has kindly organised!!! BTW your dog sounds like a real trooper, good to hear he is still going. I know it isn't always easy to get a sitter (we have cats too) but they are worth it aren't they? (the dogs not the sitters )

AFM I have gathered myself together and booked my hysto in Serum, Athens for 3rd October. Going off on my own & DP will go later after the court case in a day return to leave his 'deposit' . Plus I'm trying a bit of self help chinese medicine (diet etc) and we'll see where we get to!

Lots of love to everyone
xxx


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## deblovescats

Hi girls
Thanks for all the messages. Hi to kirsty, lesley, fifif, hopeful ...
hope the op goes well kirsty. Hope everyone else is going ok - good luck to anyone undergoing tx.
AFM - I went to the clinic today for my down reg scan - lining nice and thin - 4 - nurse said it's acceptable anything under 5. I had bloods taken to check levels to make sure both ovaries are quiet - depending on results, i might need another zoladex injection to keep down reg, as i'm a few days ahead of my donor. Plan still on schedule for possible ET w/c 21st October. I've been impressed that i've seen the same nurse ( donor specialist) at each appointment so there's continuity. It appears very professional. I paid for my treatment today - so that's out of the way (rather a shock to the system) but that's sorted out now. 
I'm finding it quite draining at work as I've decided not to tell anyone yet - i just said i had a medical appointment this afternoon, as previously i've taken annual leave or flexi time - yet everyone else has time off for appointments, so thought I needed to take my turn! Manager has been on about a bank person for eg. sick leave/maternity leave, one colleague said 'i don't think we'll be needing cover for maternity leave - as no one will be needing it' - just cos everyone else already has their kids  - I'm just hoping I'll be that one needing it!!! 
I'm excited, it's getting close now, I'm just trying not to think about it too much, I'm worrying already about how i'll cope with another BFN but I'm trying to remain calmly optimistic. we all need a bit of luck on here.
Deb


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## cornwall

Thanks for all the messages of support. I'm ok now. Have had a few 'moments' and I expect I'll have a few more but generally coping well. DH and I had a holiday and I 'miscarried' during that time. It wasn't much as I think my body had absorbed the embryos. I know - I am very lucky to have avoided a medicated miscarriage.

Our clinic sent us a new donor proposal today as I've been very proactive about getting the next cycle started whilst my body still remembers it can get pregnant. Hopefully, should be PUPO again by the end of November.

Best wishes to all - especially Kirsty, Deb and anyone else about to start tx.


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## fififi

Cornwall - so pleased you're feeling strong enough to try again. Thinking of you & hope that joy returns to your lives soon  

Debs - great news that all going well with your cycle so far. Keep us posted. Really hope you shock work by needing that maternity leave they counted you out of  

Artist - am pleased you're not letting EW (evil witch not ex wife!) get total control of your lives. Must be so hard for you. Hope all goes well in Athens & you can start cycle soon xxxx

MJ - keeping fingers crossed a good match comes up for you soon  
What plans for wedding have you made so far - please bore us with those details & help distract our minds for while  

Kirsty - hope op goes well and with the refurbished interior you'll be fine with your frosties  
How crazy that match comes up when not needed yet. But good to know should OE not work out all is good on that front

Hopeful - hope those long shifts with annoying individuals not driving you too crazy. Life needs to start smiling on you cos you seem so optimistic it's hard to believe its not  

Lesley - how you doing hun? Thinking of you  

Am sure there's more I've missed but on phone so hard to go back. Hugs to those I've forgotten   

AFM - 2 weeks late now but feel like AF finally on its way. Had blood test at GP Fri to check HCG levels but very unlikely as HPT still negative. Once AF comes I will start down reg on day 21. My donor already started. Then if all goes smoothly guess the action happens early Nov


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## LellyLupin

Hi girls    lots of exciting things on here at the moment, lots of DE activity  

Debs I have got everything crossed for you, I think you will be a fab Mummy, its very exciting that you are almost there.  Can't wait for you to tell us everyones reaction when you break the news!

Cornwall glad you are feeling a bit better.   I remember my consultant saying your body remembers it has been pregnant, so your body will be primed to conceive again xx

MJ come on spill the beans about THE dress we are all dying to know, fitted, meringue, fishtail, all the gory details, as Feefs says we need some distraction from the angst and your wedding is it lol  Seriously I am always glued to 'Four Weddings' and Don't tell the Bride' so do tell xx

Fifi  very exciting things happening for you sweetie, just think your donor has your little cherub just waiting for you to come and claim him/her.  You are such a lovely person, your little baby will be so lucky to have you as its Mum xx

Kirsty hope everything goes well with your op, amazing they found a match after such a short time!  Wouldn't it be nice to be able to see a picture of the donor.  I think if I went for DE I would ask for blue eyes and blonde, the complete opposite of me.  I know I could love a DE baby as I could quite easily have run off with my friends baby at the Christening    My other friend keeps offering to carry a baby for me, I keep telling her the problem is my eggs not my body, bless her I know shes only trying to help.  Is your Frostie your own egg? Hopefully this time after having a refurb this little frostie will settle in and you will be sharing your good news with us before you know it xx 

Roxy what can I say?   I feel for you wrt to the ex-wife,  they are maddening.  I really do feel that a lot of ex-husbands have it rough.  My DP just wants to be a great father but his DP does all she can to disrupt his time with the kids, it drives me nuts when she rings on our time asking the kids if they are ok and what are they doing?  I feel like grabbing the phone and shouting 'No Lucy's arm is hanging off and Joe is drunk, of course they are all bloody right they are with their Father, now sod off and let him have his time with them!! I don't of course because I am too much of a lady, but the things I think are shocking   I am whittling a doll out of wax as I type      Hang in there Roxy, she will be so bloody miffed when you have your own baby xxx

Hopeful I have taken your advice and am being a little bit more gentle with DP, he knocked me for six with his tears.  I love him so much I just want to make a family with him,  I know he is happy that I get on so well with his kids, but I would love a little mix of the two of us.  I am lucky really that I have Joe and Lucy and we are so close, I guess that will have to do unless a miracle happens or I win the lottery.  Sounds like your pup will be here for a long time to come, if I lived nearer I would look after him so you could go on holiday.  I have made the decision with Suzy to let her take it easy from now on, shes nearly sixteen which I forget at times.  Shes still having trouble with her eyes and won't wear her 'Doggles' so I can't take her out in the sun.  Poor you having to spend so much time with old grumpy, I used to work with a girl I couldn't stand,  honestly I disliked her with a passion,  but the only person who was getting an ulcer out of the situation was me, so I tried to make a friend out of her instead.  We ended up being quite chummy, although I would never have trusted her it did make work more bearable.  Anyway if all else fails send me a picture and I will whittle you a doll   

Ajw and Sally Salad how are you both getting on?

Well must go as I being nagged, something about 'Internet Widdower' - sigh  

Much love to all xx


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## MJ1

Hi girls, okay we'll you wanted to know about the Dress Lesley, description below, and I love it😄

Romantic taffeta gown adorned with diamante chain embellishment on bodice. Striking waterfall train opens up to reveal the sumptuous bustled train.

Lots of details still to be finalised as in cake, flowers etc as still have ages until the day. And yes Lesley I am addicted to don't tell the bride too, love that programme it's so funny.

Cornwall, glad to hear you are getting lined up for another cycle and strike while the irons hot.

Debs, good luck too.

Fififi, I hope that AF arrives soon and you can start.

Catch you all soon 
Love MJ xxxx


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## hopeful68

Lesley - liking the doll idea, but I wouldn't risk my camera or Karma!!!


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## HinaP

Hello ladies 

Hope you ladies are all well. Hope you don't mind if I join you. 

We had our first IVF and has come back with BFN! Devastated but we are going to give it another go as my parents have kindly offered to help us out financially. 

Can I ask how long should you leave it before you start your next cycle? we have our follow up next week but would like to know what  other have done. 

Thanks 

Hina xx


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## LellyLupin

Hi Hina

Welcome but I hope you are not on here too long.    I was told its wise to wait 3 months but I know others have been told different.  I think its to give your body a rest and time to recoup.  Good Luck whatever you decide xx


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## Moominmum

Hi All Wonderful Ladies,

I am not sure if anyone still remembers me but I have been reading every single post all along. But as I have nothing to say I have kept quiet. 

I am trying to get on with my life (with DH and DS) and after the single tx I've had I am sure that there will be no more tx ever. I still shiver when I think about the one last year! There is still a natural chance - someone I went to school with and who will be 44 in January just had a baby and in May a friend who is 45 just had a baby. How they did it I don't know, but I don't care. All I know is that they did it 

I will keep on reading everything and leave some short "notes" every now and then.

Lots of love and even more


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## artist_mum

hi *moominmum*
lovely to hear from you.
I just wanted to recommend a book which I just found (maybe you have it already) called The Baby Making Bible by Emma Cannon. It has some lovely recipes and advice for having a nice healthy body and life..... good for us whether there is a baby or not!

Good luck. You are indeed still young enough 

*mj1* dress sounds fab, *lesley* your post & your whittling made me laugh as usual, you make it funny when we both know it's not , *fififi* hope it is all coming together for you & really hoping for you this time, *deb* wishing you loads of luck with this, *cornwall* good to hear you are getting on again, go for it girl!

And *hina* i am donor egg so not sure about the waiting time, but perhaps try to listen to your own voice on when you feel ready?

AFM DP has all his info ready to give the court this week so we are praying for a quick resolution so everyone can move on (like they were supposed to have done when they did all this 5 years ago...!). Then I'm off to Serum see what they can see via their hysto. Then we'll see 

Hugs to all, especially anyone I missed off here.

Artist (aka Roxy!)
x


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## hopeful68

Hi Hina, - welcome and as already said we hope you get to pass quickly from this group to another one with positive news! I was told that 3 months is really the minimum waiting time before starting again. allowing your body to build up reserves again, obviously several eggs are taken at once and the energy to prepare them can drain the ovaries, so don't rush it.

Mooms, great to hear from you. absolutely not forgotten!! I have the baby making bible book - didn't work for me but then I wasn't religiously sticking to my chicken and ginger soup diet!! however it is sat on my shelf so if any one wants it PM me with your address and I will post it up/down or sideways depending on your location!!  

AFM - my longest ever week at work is over half way, only another 24 hrs to work in 2 days, done 35 so far!! roll on the weekend! (24 hrs are extra time so 'think of the ££'- doesn't really help at 3am on a late finish in the rain!!). We have decided to buy a van and convert it to a camper. as we have decided we obviously aren't going down the IVF route ever again (and I second mooms' - shudder about the thought of doing it again - it nearly broke me!) the money we do have will be spent on us and quality time together, so a weekend get away in a camper off down to Devon/Cornwall or into the new forest seems like a good idea, or even over to France (as we live right by the ferry port!!). so that is our winter project - that and the next modules for the uni course. Right, better get the dog walked and my ass in to gear for the next shift starting at 1400 (hopefully just for 12 hrs this time, not like last nights!!)

Take care all!!


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## LellyLupin

Hi Girls -  

MJ your dress sounds gorgeous, I love the sound of the diamonte chains on the bodice, I bet you are so excited.  What colours bridesmaids dresses are you having?  Have you noticed on 'Don't tell the bride' how selfish some of the grooms are and what stupid ideas some of them have?  I remember one where he made the bride go on a rollercoaster before the wedding. I mean who wants to do that when your make and hair is all done I ask you   I would hand my wedding over to DP as we have the same taste, I can't imagine him getting it wrong. 

MOOMIN as IF we would forget you    you are the founder of this thread    I am still living in hope too but as DP has antibodies I know its impossible, I still have that hopeful feeling if I am slightly late and thinking every period is a waste    I keep hearing of ladies in their mid and late forties conceiving so if your partner doesn't have antibodies its got to be possible.  

Roxy glad to hear things are moving so you can both get past it and get on with babymaking.    Lets hope this finally puts everything to bed for good.  WRT the ex-wife in my life,  I have decided to distance myself from our situation and try to let whatever she does wash over me (easier said than done).  I have felt a little bit more peaceful since I took this tack. I can't wait for you to tell me how yours reacts when you become pregnant.  

Hopeful I think you deserve a holiday after all that work, how are you getting on with old grumpy chops?    I wish I could move on and not still be thinking about tx, I am sure it will come at some point.  We desperately need a new suite and carpet but want to pay our ivf debt off first.  My SS would love your idea of a camper van and Devon, he is a surfer and lives for his hols in Cornwall etc.  Maybe you could try your hand at surfing when you get there?

AFM I am sat here contemplating going to the hospital.  I did a very silly thing on Saturday, I took Lucy to the fair and met my nephew and his new girlfriend there.  Shes what I would call a corn fed American, quite a well made chunky girl.  Anyway Lucy wanted to go on the mixer ride and Kate said she would come too, there was a notice on the ride saying the biggest person should be on the end as the ride throws you all one way.  Being polite (stupid  ) I thought Kate would be insulted if I said to her 'you sit on the end' , so I ended up there.  Result - I was about 3 seconds from passing out when the ride stopped, I have a bruised arm and it hurts when I breathe.  Last night it was so painful to breathe that I didn't sleep a wink, its five days later and I'm in more pain than ever.  Not sure if I have cracked a rib or collapsed a lung or something, if I bend down to pick something up I almost pass out  

On the baby front I am having a bit of a sad day today  , I seem to be losing a lot of my older relatives at the moment and its making me think of the circle of life and the fact that I have no family of my own.  I spent a lot of last night talking to my cousin in America.  Her Mom is in intensive care and as shes an only child, she wanted me to help her make the decision regarding whether to resuscitate her Mom if she crashes when she comes off the ventilator.  A huge decision to make as I love my Aunt so much,  but I also know that she wouldn't want to live in an undignified state. I also feel so bad for my cousin and just wish I was closer so I could comfort her.

Anyway enough of my ramblings, much love to all of you xx


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## MJ1

Hi Girls,

Mooms, will never forget you Hun, as Lesley said you founded this page and brought us all together  

Roxy, good luck with court case and with Serum, have heard great things about Penny. 

Lesley, you don't sound too good Hun, get to the docs/hospital as it could be a cracked rib, you never know. Thank you for the comments on my dress, it is gorgeous and I love it  
Yes I did see that 'don't tell the bride' where he sent her to Alton towers... Mad or what  

Hopeful, I second your idea totally, not sure that my perfect de will ever materialise and if not my DP soon to be DH so wants to get a camper too and go off at weekends, why not we don't have any kids to worry about!

AFM, well not a great week, had a call from SIL to say she is 3 months pg, due in March.... Oh flipping     😷 bleep bleep great!!! Just got over the other SIL having her little girl in March this year, luckily she lives in the US so not in my face but oh boy every time I log onto ******** a new picture appears she might as well live here.... So now I have the joys of watching SIL 2 growing and Christmas with her bump... Sheesh give me a break. Maybe I need to bury my head on another Bride mag..  

Have a nice evening all

Love MJ xxxxx


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## Salad4

Hello ladies.  Sorry I have been so quiet for a while.  After the excitement of a positive pregnancy test it turned out to be a chemical pregnancy, so that was a bit of a flash in the pan.  I had the most exciting couple of days - looking at due dates (very close to my birthday) and silly planning things and then the bubble burst.  I suppose at least I got those few days.  So I've spent the last six weeks or so settling my head back where it should be.  We went for our follow up and at my age there is only the donor egg option (I don't have many miracles, so no point me hoping for that) and I'm just taking one cautious step after another down that road.  
MJ - sorry to hear about the pregnancy in the face SIL situation.  Luckily for me most of my friends have now finished that stage of their life, so hasn't happened to me so much recently.  It's so hard to be pleased for them when it is so painful.
Lesley - hugs to you - I know exactly what you mean about older relatives & the circle of life.  I don't have anything wise to say, but I have supportive thoughts to send...
Hopeful - hope work isn't too gruelling & the weekends away sound like a perfect idea.
Roxy - fingers crossed for the court case.  I hope like my DP the angst was all beforehand and the court case itself wasn't so bad (once the ex-wife had been convinced that she couldn't name me as a co-respondent!).
Moominmum - I pray for a miracle for all of us - maybe it will work for one of us!!
Hina - how long you wait will depend on the type of treatment & what the clinic says.  We only took one month break between natural cycles, but much longer between traditional ones.  For me the emotional burden is high (and of course the financial one).
MJ - dress sounds awesome...
Fifii, Cornwall, Debs, Kirsty - fingers crossed for a smooth & successful donor cycle - very exciting 
AJW - hope all is going well with your cycle and you've had no more bad dreams! (there is so much going on on this thread that I might run out of fingers!)


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## MJ1

Hi all,

Sorry just had to share more annoying news, SIL number three (DP's side) is also rumoured to be pg again!!!!!!!! So that will be two new additions to the family next year. Not sure I have enough wedding mags to bury my head for the next 6 months  
Love MJ xx


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## hopeful68

MJ- I know how you feel to a certain degree! when I was seconded off the road work and in to the admin part of the work, it was there initially as I was pg but obviously that didn't get far. while I was there though I think about 9 or so other ladies came off the road as they were PG. you keep doing the 'I am so happy for you' (heart sinking, envy rising, stomach lurching) bit and find an excuse to escape their company for a bit until you can get your head straight! possibly I have had to do it so often now it is not such a hard task (or it passes quicker with each new announcement!) still wish it was me but cant live on 'what ifs' so the camper van is a new focus and something to look forward to.

chin up and keep looking forward!


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## MJ1

Thanks hopeful   I know that the only people to understand are all the ladies on here, no one else has a clue! I remember when I first stared trying five years ago, I had a colleague that sat next to me and fell, so we got her replacement and she then fell too! She has just had her second one now... Just seems like everyone's lives move on and their dreams are realised and I am left still hoping! Like you say onward and upward which I can usually do, just with two lots of family baby news in one week can take its toll. Happy camper van times  
MJ xx


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## Sushi Lover

*MJ*...... oh wow, love wedding dress description! Very detailed! Colour? I adore 'Don't tell the Bride'. I just love it when the groom gets the dress sooooooo wrong and the bride ends up hating it. I'm so cruel, but it makes good tv! Those blokes really are so selfish and do what THEY want! The other week he chose a cut-price one that had dirty marks and holes, hoping she wouldn't notice!! Re the DE... I totally agree you need someone with proven fertility. I'd be the same. Oh dear, how horrible with all the pregnant SIL's... it's so tough to hear I know.

*Roxy*.... yep, typical.. everything comes at once. Best of luck for your hysteroscopy at Serum today! Let us know how you get on. I'm trying the Chinese medicine as well. Are you boiling up the 'tea'? Makes the whole house smell and tastes flipping vile. The lengths we go to eh? I'm now cooking mine in a pressure cooker to keep the smells within the pot. Seems to work.

*Debs*.... are you still down-regging? Is your ET still on track for the 21st c. ? How exciting!

*Cornwall*... excellent news that you are back in the saddle already hun. Have you been offered a new donor now?

*Fififi*....oh wow, how exciting with the DE cycle. It seems a few of us are on that road now. Are you feeling happier about it now? When do you start to down reg?

*Lesley*... it's funny about the picture thing as DP and I discussed that and I don't think I'd want to see a photo of the donor as it kind of makes them 'real' ...if you know what I mean? A person rather than a donor. Sounds odd, but I'd rather keep them as faceless. Then they are offering a service rather than being the biological 'mother'. Why would you ask for a donor that looks the total opposite to you? Most people go for attributes similar to their own so I'm intrigued as to your thought process? With 'Don't tell the Bride'... last night the groom made his bride put on a bloody crash helmet and drive 1 1/2 hours through London in a sidecar attached to a scooter!! Mental. She's just had her hair done and everything. Although making her look like his perfect woman, Paloma Faith, was a bit weird. I'd be really offended if DP wanted me to look like Megan Fox or someone. Your story about the fairground ride made me laugh... but seriously, you sound like you have a cracked rib. Did you go to hospital? Sorry to hear you are feeling sad about everything... it really does make you reassess things when older members of the family are ill or close to passing away. Is your DP any closer to thinking about DE? I so want you to have a baby of your own... you sound such a lovely person and really deserve to be a Mum.

*Hopeful*... the camper idea sounds fab... how lovely you'll just be able to jump in it on a Friday afternoon and disappear for the weekend.. see where it takes you. I love that idea.

*Hina*... welcome. Sorry you've had to come onto this board. Really sorry to hear about your BFN. 3 months is ideal as Lesley said. Your body and ovaries need time to recover. As well as your state of mind and bank balance!

*Moomin*..... silly girl... course we remember you! You are our founder member. Wow, good to hear about natural stories of ladies in the 40's !! I think they don't think or stress about it... and it just happens.

*Sally*.... so sorry to hear about your chemical pregnancy hun. That is really disappointing. Will you go down the DE route now?

*AFM*... the hysteroscopy showed my uterus looks fine... no fibroids, scar tissue or polyps. However the laparoscopy showed I have a section of endometriosis that has fused my bowel to my uterus. The consultant said it ISN'T fertility related though?! So confused. Apparently it only affects fertility when in the tubes, uterus or ovaries. And I don't have that type. Thought I'd found the answer and now it seems I have a secondary health issue I knew nothing about! Been doing lots of research and there is some evidence to support implantation failure with endo ladies because of inflammation and uterine contractions. A lady on another thread is being treated by Penny at Serum with anti-inflammatories for this. So maybe this is what I need before my FET.... watch this space.... Going to the Fertility Show in Nov to find out some more before I go ahead with the frozen embie transfer. Serum will have a stall there if anyone is interested? Cheaper than going to Greece for a consultation!

xxx


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## artist_mum

hi everyone

*kirsty* good to hear from you & interesting development on the lap.. gosh, rather unexpected I guess but perhaps that anti inflammatory could work, and easy enough to add into your protocol i guess. I had heard that Serum were over in November, apparently they will wait til nearer the time to see if Penny can make it herself but a full team will be there anyway. Indeed cheaper than flying to Greece so that's great timing for you. All my info below - the hysto results were not good + large fibroids (which I knew about) so I'm feeling rather flat and just deflated really. Plus I was flying all day yesterday from Athens via Stockholm... only reasonable price ticket i could get! And the skids are here this weekend. Sometimes i just feel it is all too much but just don't see why it should be my/our baby that gets put to the side. It's the old "What about me?" call that comes from my heart at times like this. I have been making chai tea which is rather nice smelling, not on the hard core chinese stuff yet.. but seeing someone for advice on chinese medicine this week so perhaps we have those smells still to come 

*salad* I was sorry to read the chem preg, it's hard to take the hope and disappointment I know. But good to hear you are taking your steps down the DE route.. I think it will just fall slowly into place by doing that, wishing you loads of luck with all your decisions. And thx for support on the EW situation (Ex Wife), those who've been there just do understand how frustrating these women can be - never happy with what they have (Like for example 2 lovely children..) and wanting more and more. Her kids are 9 and 13 years and she has decided (having always worked by choice since they were babies) that she would now like spousal maintenance?!?!? if you knew how much (or rather little) he came away with, well.. it is just a joke really. OOOHHH  (sorry mini rant came out there - sorry about that!) Anyway, best of luck to you xx

*mj1* Yes, these family news do hit hard and seem to come in waves just when you don't want them. Hoping you've got a bit to terms with it and managing to focus on the all important Number 1 i.e you!  And thx re court & Serum, bit of an update below.

*lesley* yes I agree with keeping a distance, I too do try this and when successful it really does help. Sometimes it is so frustrating though. But as DP says at least it is now going before the court and then it will be done and no further claims possible. Looking forward to it passing over next few weeks. Hope the fairground ride injuries have healed by now? That sounds crazy, and rather painful 

*fifi, hina, debs, cornwall, mooomin, hopeful* sorry girls I have run out of steam and gonna do a quick AFM and head off. But love to all and  for your day when you read this. This journey does its ups and downs doesn't it? Hope you are on a up xxx

AFM Serum visit was good in that I have progressed things and seen Penny 'eye to eye' and got her opinion. It was bad in that the hysto results were terrible: so blocked with scar tissue that he could barely get the camera in and left a catheter with balloon to keep the walls from collapsing on each other after he had cleared it out. They removed that the following day. The surgery went on longer than anticipated, I was on my own as DP not able to come & I found it hard to come round/leave the hospital. I swelled up by next day, possibly an allergic reaction to lengthy anaesthetic (not sure). Possible reason for the results is large fibroids outside uterus which push on uterus walls. Penny wants me to return for aqua scan, if OK then continue to tx but she says I will need to rest and not work in pregnancy. If aquascan not OK then need another hysto to clear more tissue out. Feeling annoyed I was never given hysto before now... Also am I crazy to continue The fibroids are too large to remove - in my more positive moments I am thinking anti-fibroid natural diet to shrink them, carry on, give it this one last try..... At other moments I wonder if I am mad to keep trying with this. TO be honest it is DP who convinces me I want this baby so much (which I do) but you know, gosh, I'm struggling with this journey & wonder if really I am just too old now. what do you think?

Sorry such a long me post.
Roxy xx

PS On a lighter note, I did get a nice DVD of my uterus performing to camera. DP has suggested, as with all good Art Exhibitions/Films, that we organise a Private View with drinks and nibbles


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## Coolish

*Roxy *- So pleased you feel you have made some progress with going out to Serum. So many other clinics don't bother with hystos and if they do they tend to be just a 'look and see' with no remedial work at all (I had one in Spain like that and they said everything was fine). What my OH liked about Serum and their approach with the hysto was that it's going back to basics and making sure that the 'foundations' are right - yeah he's an engineer  I really believe that having 'dead/scar' lining removed and polyps was key to helping me on this last cycle. That and the immunes protocol. Oh and Penny 

With fibroids, I have about 5 small ones in my uterus, but luckily they aren't in the way of implantation. What Penny suggested to me was a longer down reg which can shrink down the fibroids. In the end, after my hysto, I didn't need the down reg, but it's an option that used for fibroids and endo.

*Kirsty* - I've seen a few ladies on the Serum boards who are using anti-inflammatories for things like endo. Don't forget, you don't have to go to Athens for a first consult - I got loads of advice and information from a telephone consult with Penny.

*Debs* - I think your DE ET is coming up soon isn't it? Good luck xx


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## artist_mum

*cooljules* thanks for your response, I nearly PMd you for your thoughts as I knew you would understand where I"m at. It's good to hear from you. My DP is a production planner in engineering firm so yes, same kind of thinking! He is a great partner in all this.. methodical, practical and yes, appreciates sorting out the foundations . Your message tells me also that Penny does know exactly what she's doing re fibroids etc. She didn't mention any down reg possibilities but in my case the fibroids are outside the uterus - large and pushing against it. I am looking into dietary ways to shrink fibroids & will ask at my appt on Tuesday with Trevor Wing if he can help (he knows Penny so she has encouraged me to see him too). Good to hear your pregnancy is going OK (I see you posting on other boards sometimes), I hope you are managing your diet ok and it does the trick for you and your LO. Take care of yourself, Roxy xx


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## meal2

So  sorry Cornwall only just seen your message.  That's exactly what happened with me at Pedieos although I knew it was a miscarriage as I was in so much pain and confirmed by my epu.  I do hope you are successful with your next attempt.  Please do push with them; I feel after attempt 3 (my only positive) with them they gave up on me and communication was difficult ie I was ignored!
Best wishes
Michaela


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## Sushi Lover

*Roxy*... sorry to hear about your nightmare hysto. So Penny hasn't suggested removing the fibroids? Why are they too large to remove? My cousin has one as large as a grapefruit and she is having that removed on the NHS because of the pain it causes her. So is it in the abdominal cavity attached to the outside of the uterus? Or on/in another organ? On the plus side, how comforting to know the majority of the scar tissue has been removed! As CoolJules said.. this solved her problem, so maybe it will for you as well? Was the scar tissue in your uterus or tubes? I believe fibroids are oestrogen driven like endo... so you can help manage this with diet ...being careful of meat and diary products which contain hormones. Or go organic. Defo try the chinese herbs and perhaps acupuncture though? Best of luck with your consultation. Oh and I think you most definitely *aren't* too old! Please don't stop now, you sound like you are finding more and more out about your body and possible reasons for it not working. It would be madness to stop at this stage. You are nearly there! You aren't crazy to continue in my opinion. p.s. can't wait for the invite to the private screening of your hysto operation! I'll bring the wine 

*CoolJules*... lovely to hear from you and I hope your pregnancy is progressing well. Thanks for the reminder re telephone consultation with Penny. I really will try this if my FET is unsuccessful. I still haven't got around to the hidden C test as run out of funds and I'm putting it off because of the impending expense for the FET. Does Penny insist on this? Do you think it's a good idea to have it? Why do all the UK consultants think it's a waste of money? I really can't make my mind up about it!

xx


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## artist_mum

*kirsty* thanks for your feedback and encouragement, really thanks a lot, i just needed to hear it. My DP is very positive about going on, I just felt at times in Greece that I am taking a lot of risks (physically, financially etc) but you are spot on: I am finding out what is really going on, at last. And it feels possible, and I just can't give up on it. Regarding the fibroids - they are outside the uterus itself, presumably in the cavity there and give no pain or other problems hence no need to remove. I think due to age, recovery time from op, Penny says it's not an option to remove them. ARGC and Eugin (in Spain) said the same but looked  at their size when they were doing the scans - I could see from their faces that it wasn't good. But nobody has even suggested removing so they must consider OK to proceed I guess. The scar tissue was in the uterus itself - lots of white tissue blocking the entrance and inside the cavity, he used scissors to scrape it away then you could see the walls of the uterus and the entrance to one of fallopian tubes. Penny said it could be residue from the 2 miscarriages and possibly exacerbated by the fibroids pushing from the outside when the uterus was trying to heal. Or it could be from before then. In any case I think you are right about diet/fibroids and i see that as my main option (of what I can actually do). It sounds like you are full on with the chinese medicine/brews/acu yourself and I really hope that does it for you on this FET. I'm completely on board with chinese view of medicine, it seems so right. It's balancing it all with pharmaceuticals & diet etc that's the challenge - we should all get a degree in this stuff, perhaps FF could start a study programme/online tutorials etc  It does sound like for you, it is getting around the endo issue, and yes, the oestrogen seems the prob there on both - i found some good dietary advice (i think) recommending things that combat oestrogen, tofu, mackerel, salmon, pulses (lima, pinto beans ets). All that good healthy stuff! Good luck kirsty, & thanks again for yr message x


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## Coolish

Hey *Kirsty* - hidden c is one of the first things that Penny suggests. If you have this then you need ABs to get rid of it. The infection caused the issues with my lining, i.e. nothing would implant. The poor things would try but would end in a chemical. I thought it was £170 well spent - I had the ABs on NHS prescription from my doc, so no extra costs. Especially when you consider £170 in the grand scale of even a FET costings. I'd say many IVF consultants are so 'impressed' with their own protocols that they are more than ready to poo-poo any other clinic using different protocols. My old clinic poo-pood intralipids and immunes protocols last year when I asked and I see they are started to use them now. A little like the scratch or implantation cuts - much more mainstream now 

Also, just to echo Kirsty, no-one is too old or crazy to continue with this - looks at me, pregnant for the frst time at 48 after 8 years of trying and 5 failed cycles!


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## Sushi Lover

*Roxy*... you are very welcome. It's so easy to tie yourself up in knots with the whole thought-process. Goes round and round in your head with only DP to talk to. Sometimes all you need is reassurance from someone else in a similar situation to encourage and spur you on. I know you'd do the same for me! Stick with it hun... sounds like you are nearly there.

*CoolJules*... thanks for your response. For some reason I had £300 in my head... £170 sounds a lot more manageable. I'll definitely get tested. Drop in the ocean compared to all the other expense! Thanks for the info. You've convinced me.

xxx


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## Ka40

Hello all
I hope you don't mind if I join you.  I'm kinda feeling abit lost at the mo.  We had our 2nd BFN today with ICSI.  My AMH last year was 1.6, so 'scrapping the barrel'!  The nurse today thinks its a very slim chance that we would be able to conceive with my own eggs due to low numbers, though we did get a grade 2 this time which we were pleased with.  She talked a lot about using donor eggs, but we are not sure if we are 'ready' for that, haven't considered it til now.
I was wondering if there is anything else we could try to give it one more try, or would we be wasting our time and money?  I believe there are drugs you can take to assist implantation?  Also I've read on here that ladies have changed diet, added supplements, had acupuncture and made lifestyle changes to help  We are willing to give anything a go, just to know that we have tried absolutely everything.  We have also thought about changing clinics?  Currently at the priory in Birmingham, but willing to travel if anyone can recommend anywhere else with fab results for us with low AMH
Sorry to go on, just lots to ponder and plenty going round and round in my head.
I'm gonna have a good ole read of your stories and hope to get to know afew peeps on here.
Good luck to all on this mad journey
Love Ka xxx


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## LellyLupin

Hi girls lots of activity on here again. 

CoolJules can I ask a question that might be a bit controversial (I apologise if I upset you its not intentional).  Now that you are pregnant what are your thoughts regarding DE?  Daft question as I know that you are so happy being pregnant,  I am just curious as to what thoughts you are having about it,  as if I got the chance I would go down that route myself.  The reason I am asking and its partly to answer Kirsty's question of why I would choose a DE the opposite of me, is that I think I would be looking for bits of  'me' in a child that was matched to me, so by choosing the opposite and a blonde blue eyed baby,  I wouldn't keep searching for 'me' in there.  Gosh that sounds so mental when I read it back, does anyone understand what I mean?    On the question of whether DP has softened anymore on the DE subject that would be a no.    Am I coping with being childless er no not really.  I always feel like I am waiting for something,  like a miracle or a lottery win so I can try treatment again, its stopping me moving on.  I sometimes wonder if ivf is a good thing at all (I know controversial)  What I mean is,  if we had never had the opportunity to try ivf, if it didn't exist would we have accepted our infertility a whole lot faster and with a lot less stress?  What do you think?  Does it mess with our wellbeing by giving hope and then disappointment?


MJ1   totally getting your 'why is everyone but me' moving on vibe with regards to pregnancy announcements,  It sometimes feels like a vendetta doesn't it.  I find I am worse if  I get pregnancy news when I am just about to get AF.  Today I came home to let Suzy out,  to find a thank you note from my Bipolar friend for Sams christening presents.  I only opened the corner of it,  as soon as I saw that the card had a picture of Sam on the front, I just didn't want to open it, I threw it in the bin.  I just thought I don't want to be reminded that I haven't got a beautiful baby in my arms and she has.  Awful aren't I?  

Sally    I am so sorry chick, I know having a bit of hope and then to have it dashed is worse than not getting a BFP at all.  Take it easy and give yourself time to heal before you take the next step, we are all here for you even if we can't take the pain away xx

Kirsty I didn't go to hospital in the end, I had one night where I seriously thought my lung had collapsed and I did consider it,  but then the next day it was loads better so I didn't bother.  Definitely avoiding chunky Americans and funfairs from now on.    On the Don't tell the Bride front, I think if the Brides could hear how selfish the grooms were, they would call the wedding off.  They have such stoopid ideas don't they?  I mean if a groom buys his bride a holey dirty dress, what must he really think of her?  Sorry to hear of your endometriosis, that sucks big time, I have a friend who has it.  Good to hear that it won't affect your fertility though that's a big big positive.  xx

Roxy wow it sounds like you had a rotten time with your hysto, wouldn't all these issued have shown up when you were being scanned for follicles?  Excuse my lack on knowledge on the subject, but surely other fertility experts should have spotted this,  and sorted it all out before agreeing to treat you?    On the 'should I continue down this route subject, I guess all of us think that at some point, I talk myself in and out of further treatment all the time, we just don't have the funds.  If I did I would go for it,  truly I would.  I so envy you your supportive partner, I would give my right arm for a partner who wanted a baby as much as I do.  Poor you having to go through that part on your own though and then having to deal with the skids when you got back.  Totally understand your 'what about me' feelings,  been there and done that probably on a monthly basis for the past 11 years   

AFM Mums back out of hospital so that's fabulous, we have an appointment with a surgeon on the 11th nov so hopefully they will sort her out for good.  Just found out that I have hypertension ( I wonder why) and have to go for an ECG and lots of blood tests, the docs are also sending me to see a consultant about my migraines,  so I am about to be prodded and poked again.  On the baby front I am just drifting along and hoping for a miracle.  

Much love to anyone I have missed, I shouldn't leave it so long.  Lots of           to all of you xx


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## Altai

Hi ladies

I hope u don't mind me joining in.

Just had ivf icsi - bpn. So gutted.

I am now looking for a new clinic and would greatly appreciate your insights and advice for clinics which u' ve used.  I need a clinic specialising on ladies over 40s.

I've been looking at lister and argc. Lister has better statistics for 44 yo. But I also read rave reviews about argc ( if u meet their "entry criteria) . 

I looked through ur thread and can see that some of u r going to serum. 

Please advice needed.

Thanks a lot
Good luck to all.


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## Sushi Lover

Hello to Ka40 and Altari, sorry you've had to join us, but welcome, nevertheless. It's desperately upsetting to get a BFN and we all know how you both feel.

*Altari*....I've just a quick flick through the HFEA's website for league tables... but they don't supply any. You have to search for each individual clinic and then view the rating against the national average. I looked up a few in London...

_ARGC_: Above national average for 40-42, consistent with national average for 43 -44 and above 44
_Barts_: Consistent with national average
_The Bridge_: Consistent with national average (even though they advertise as being specialist for over 40's?!)
_Centre for Reproductive Medicine and Health_: Above national average for up to 39, consistent for over 40.
_CRM_: Consistent with national average
_Create_: Consistent with national average
_Lister_: Above national average for up to 37, consistent after that.
_London Women's Clinic_: Consistent with national average.

Sorry I can't give you a more definitive answer. As you can see, most clinics perform at the national average level. Not sure about Serum's results... maybe someone else can help with that question?

*Ka40*...there is a lot you can do to help your fertility. Agate has written a brilliant piece on what to do and ask after a failed cycle (see link below). The main things really are giving up alcohol and caffeine. Getting your diet in order with healthy, wholesome foods. Drinking lots of water. Getting enough sleep and rest and trying to avoid stress. Get your immune levels tested for natural killer cells in particular. Steroids and intralipids can help with implantation if you have high levels. Clexane is a blood thinner than helps if you have a history of m/c. Supplement suggestions are as long as your arm! I take Omega oils DHA and EPA, vit E, Vit C, Vit D, B complex, selenium, L'arginine, Co-enzyme Q10 (all in high doses) and a pre-conception multi as well. The list is extensive (see second link)so don't panic and think you need everything... just pick out ones that suit you or where you feel you need help. A drug called DHEA can help if you are poor responder. But it's a hormone and has side effects. I took it for 4 months up to one cycle and got 20 eggs! So it helps quantity, but unfortunately not quality as I still got a BFN. Acupuncture and Chinese herbs are also worth looking into. I would try the DHEA if you only get a few eggs perhaps? Donor eggs may be the way forward for you if you only get a few eggs every time hun... but you'll know when that time has come and when you're ready. So no need to rush into things. Definitely aren't wasting your time or your money to give it 3 or 4 goes, money and sanity permitting!

here's the link for a guide to a failed cycle... http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=283000.0
and the one for the fertility supplements... http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=294994.0

Happy reading! Set aside a fair amount of time!

xxx


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## Coolish

Hey Lesley - of course I don't mind you asking the question   It took me a little while to get my head around the route of DE but a few years ago I was given the odds of a 0-5% chance (and they stressed the emphasis of 0%) with my OE. I like to know as much as I can about things so did a lot of research and read info on epigenetics. If you're considering DE, then look it up. I also figured that if I was considering adoption, then surely DE should also be an option. I think it's something like a 50% rate of live birth with DE, assuming the 'foundations' are OK. 

Well, at ET when the embryos are transferred they completely feel like your's and your partner's embryos. I think I've compared DE a bit like a blood transfusion. At BFP, it's your body that's got them this far. I can feel her kicking around in there and it's mine and my partner's baby in there. She's probably going to end up looking like my partner as his side of the family seem to have pretty strong genes. One thing I already know is that she's stubborn - we had to have 3 lots of 20 week scans as she wouldn't move for the sonographers, and guess who's the most stubborn in our relationship? Yeah, apparently it's me! She jigs around at certain food that I like too. 

My body is feeding her and switching on and off those genes. Also she'll pick up my mannerisms etc. I can't imagine not thinking she isn't 'mine'. 

When asked for what donor characteristics we wanted, we just said similar build and colouring to me. Basically, I take the view that 2 concert pianists could end up having a non-musical, footballing child. Plenty of couples also end up having kids that look like neither of them. I didn't want to know anything else about the donor, and don't feel I need too. I know that Serum do really good screening of donors and treat them really well, so I trusted them.

DE has given us the fantastic opportunity to have our own child. Fair enough it's taken us 8 years and 5 failed cycles and various ops and an scary amount of money, but my OEs weren't able to do this. Apart from having the enhanced paranoia that IVF mums have, I'm sure I don't feel different to any other pregnant lady  

Sorry, if I've waffled a bit, but I hope I answered your question. Ask away if you want to know anything more. I hope I haven't upset anyone with my response.


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## fififi

Hi all ....

Apologies for lack of posts but have been reading just stupidly busy & messed up emotionally to write!
Should have been starting down reg this week but my AF was 2 weeks late (never been more than day late in last 3 years outside of tx so that was a complete head f**k ... I waited a week before pg tests but negative) When finally got AF & told clinic they told me a few days later that I'd been pulled out of cycle as was now too far behind donor & other recipient. That felt like a massive blow as was all ready to cycle & had spent all summer knowing that the donor we'd chosen was a good match. Fortunately the clinic had another suitable donor so we're set to go again about Nov. It's hard as ended up comparing the two donors and feel sad we've "lost" things we liked about first one but am hoping life has intervened for a reason and this new donor is meant to be, whereas the other one was to help me get mentally in right place    

Cooljules - your post to Lesley was brill. Has given me even more reassurance that I'm doing right thing moving to DE. Bet you are getting pretty excited as not long now until your life becomes amazing.

Lesley - think your qualms about DE pretty normal. Neither of my donors are that much like me - deep down all I really want is a little mini me but since that's not possible I'm going for something similar-ish, with features I wouldn't have minded being born with instead of what I got! Epigenetics convinced my DH.
Glad your ribs better.

Everyone else - big, big apologies but I haven't time to write personals. So many of you in limbo place right now so wishing lots of happiness your way. Will try to be better friend soon


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## deblovescats

hi guys
just sending a quick note to see if it works - I've been trying to post all week and it keeps coming back that I can't as I'm a guest!


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## deblovescats

it did work - but now failed !!! I am sooo frustrated! I posted a massively long reply but it lost it! Can't believe it. Will post again tomorrow!


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## ajw

Hello girls, sorry I haven't posted for a while. Got a bfn last week  
Really not sure where to go from here. Transferred 2 good embryos. No fragmentation. All looked so positive...

Lots of fights with dp this week. Think we're both sick of our lives at the moment. He's throwing himself into sport, but that means we hardly see each other and I get left to do all the chores. It's like he can't stand to be with me. 

Sorry for the self pity. Just feeling pretty desperate and alone at the moment. 
Ajw


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## hopeful68

AJW - so sorry to hear your news. you have had such a stressful year I am not surprised you and DP are struggling a bit. the emotions you have both been through this year would stretch anyone's relationships. last year after my BFP then empty sack scenario DH and I went through months of upset, stress and 'depression' at the idea of lives without kids. we stuck together, talked lots and are turning corners now but it has taken a long time. I think everyone on here knows where you are in one way or another. You aren't alone....... I cant give you answers as to where you should go next as everyone is different, but know that you can sound off here!!


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## hopeful68

Hi to Ka40 & Altai, sorry you have had to join us but welcome anyway! hopefully the ladies can help you work out the 'where next' questions.

cant post much trying to get sorted for work, ironing to do and a w/end of shifts.... thank goodness it isn't a full moon (and yes it does make a difference!!)

M


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## artist_mum

hi

just a quickie.. *ajw* so very sorry and also re: the rows.. It is so hard. We have had our times too I can tell you. It is completely normal for a couple to be seriously tested by all this, I'm sure everyone on here knows how that is. Thinking of you and hope you find the right outlets both separate things to cheer yourselves and the together bit. It's tough. All i can really say is to try and do things for yourself, it is hard with all the hormones as well so go easy on YOU and don't expect too much from yourself. Do nice things for yourself. And ignore him if he's not getting it!! Easy to say I know. Anyway my thoughts are with you xx

*ka40 & Altai* also hello and sorry to hear you didn't work out this time. I am with Serum now and happy to answer any Qs. I find them great for a 'bespoke' solution whereas previous clinics were applying a one size fits all approach. On the negative side Greece is a long way from here! Good luck to you both moving forward

*lesley* real quick response to what you wrote about IVF being available and meaning we can't just sort of sign off at mid 40s anymore because things are now possible.. I think that sometimes, that it's hard to have hope going on but then on the other hand, as my DP says, the opportunity is here now and we can take it - it's a choice. Like mobile phones, technology.. they are here now and we use them but life was simpler without? Not sure if that makes sense but anyway I do get your point. And yes, you are right, I think somebody ought to have given me a hysto earlier... Big  to you xx

*debs* hiya, hope you get the technology going again 

*fifi* Great PMA there about the donor meant to be.. and you are probably right! I guess that's been challenging but well done on it all, nearly there now, a few weeks to get yourself all healthy and ready, best of luck xx

*cooljules* Great post, well put - thanks for that, v helpful indeed. Have finally googled epigenetics!

*kirsty* hope all is going well with you- your post was also brilliant. This is such a great site and you are very generous with your postings 

hi to *hopeful, sally, mj1* and anyone else i've missed. 

AFM had appt with Trevor Wing - my health was still poor after the general anaesthetic from the hysto (i had allergic reaction to one of the drugs) so he wants me to go back and check my health then with chinese medicine approach (look at my tongue, suggest diet etc). He took bloods for LAD (leucocyte antibody deficiency) from both of us. It's a small thing but we are just trying to eliminate any issues cos of my age/limited time for txs. Otherwise all is good with me, just waiting for our time 

Love to all
Roxy xx


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## artist_mum

*hopeful* agree about the full moon . Hope the weekend goes well xx


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## fififi

Hi all 

AJW - sorry to see you got a bfn ... After all you've been through that seems so unfair & wrong     
As for relationships ... Not even sure I can describe what I have with DH in that way - all these years of TTC really does take its toll. We've focused so much time, money & emotions on this that have pretty much lost "us". We always hit bumpy patch in weeks following tx - think the emotions just take over & we end up being angry with each other cos the clinic/Mother Nature isn't there to let off at!

Artist mum - hope further tests help & that you're able to go into next tx confident all has been done that could be      


Big hugs to everyone else - hope everyone finds something to smile about over weekend


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## Altai

Hi ladies

Thank you all for ur welcome and advice.

Kirstylovessushi - thanks, its a brilliant link, very detailed. Need to go through and see what I might do to improve next cycle. tempted to start taking  dhea but my acupuncturist thinks better not mess up with it.

Waiting for my appointments with Lister & Argc and see where to go next. As u already wrote, clinics' rates for 43-44 yo are consistent with national, nobody does miracles. 


Artist_mum,  do u think serum specialises on women well over 40? also, can't really work out the logistics of going there as have a job. How do u manage? Or do they have satellite clinic in the uk?

Hi to hopeful, Fifi, jaw, ka40, Sally, debs, cooljules and anyone I' ve missed.

All have a good w/ end.


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## Coolish

*Altai* - I'm at Serum too. I spoke to the clinc a lot via email and then had a telephone consultation with them. I checked flights and flew out on a Sunday, had a consultation on the Monday, hysto on Tuesday and flew home on Wednesday. We left sperm to freeze when we went out for the consultation. Then, as I'm DE, I had 6-7 days notice for when I had to fly out for ET. For ET I flew out the day before and then flew home the day after. Some ladies fly home the same day, depending on flights. I think some of the OE ladies fly out for a couple of weeks 'holiday'. Check out the Serum threads so as there are lots of other ladies there that can advice about OE timeline. It's daunting when you first think about going abroad for treatment and fitting it around your job, but Serum are pretty flexible. I found them more easier to deal with and much less 'last minute' than the Spanish clinci I was with previously.


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## artist_mum

hi *altai* Like Cooljules, i am also donor egg which means less time out there but as Jules says there are loads of ways to communicate with Serum so you can minimise the time there.

And yes, they definitely are good with older ladies. As you can see both Cooljules and I are in that bracket, and Penny is always helpful, positive and just looking for how to make it possible for you. Personally I wish I'd gone straight to Serum instead of using a Spanish clinic first - only because in Spain they seem to use a protocol that is the same (pretty much) for all. Whereas you get the impression with Serum that it really is individually tailored and your protocol is put together from a whole range of interventions that Penny uses depending on the person/situation. I also did my immunes with ARGC (but egg transfer in Spain) which did give a BFP and they are good by being thorough but if you don't live close to London be aware that you have to go in there A LOT..(daily for blood tests etc) so that costs time/money to do that and I found it stressful. Also they did not ask me to do hysto which at my age I think they ought to have.

The only thing for us with Serum is the extra money involved with flights because sometimes due to fitting in with your period you have to book flights close to flying and so instead of £150 it is more like £300 return. That said, the cost of some of their tests are much less so you can even save that amount by doing bloods there etc. Also for us time off work is an issue for my DP (cos he has kids he needs to take time off for as well). I am working freelance/not much on at the mo so less of a problem for me (altho money is!).

sorry that is a bit rambly but I would say: If you feel it could be right for you then check it out by making a telephone consult with Penny. I did that so that I would get the feeling whether to progress with her or not.

Hope that helps, good luck xx


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## MJ1

Evening Ladies,

Debs and AJW I am so sorry to hear your news, it is always so much harder to read about the BFNs on this page, probably because we have all been on this rollercoaster far too long and need some luck.  

Welcome to the new ladies Altari and KA40, welcome to our page, the ladies on here are awesome and so knowledgeable you will never be lost for an answer.

Lesley, I know exactly what you mean about IVF and it's existence. I have had many a conversation with DP about if the option wasn't available we would just have to get on with it   and you are not bad or mad for not being happy for your friend and her baby, look how I am  about both SIL....  Just never ending...

AFM, which leads me onto my news.... Oh not that but it would be nice. DP and I have decided to put DE on hold for now. The wedding is taking over much of my time, I am glad to say, so we have decided to step off the baby rollercoaster for now and see how we feel after the wedding in August. So I won't have many updates but will still check in from time to time and praying for you all to have big fat BFPs   
Take care ladies and much love  
MJ xxxxxx


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## LellyLupin

Hi Girls  

CoolJules thanks ever so much for your reply, I am so glad I didn't offend you.   Your post was lovely I am so happy for you and a little girl too you are so very lucky.  Have you got any names in mind or are you keeping stum until shes here. Now you've done it by saying I can ask questions I have a million of them    Will you be telling your baby she is from a DE when shes older?  Does all of your family know?  Did you ask for any particular attributes when you looked for a donor?  Are you worried about being an older mother?  Has anyone reacted badly to your news.  That's enough for to be going on with    I am very excited for you, I so want a DE baby but for some reason I just can't say the words to DP  

awj    you are not alone you have us and we totally understand everything you are going through.  Its tough to get a BFN,  and even more so when you and your partner are trying to deal with it in your own individual ways and he is shutting you out.  My relationship with DP has been sorely tested by this process and I am sure we can all say the same thing.  Your DH is probably hurting too and is trying to sweat it out with sports,  men don't seem to be able to verbalize the way we do.    I am pretty sure he will be feeling useless and frustrated that he can't give you what you want.  Men always want to fix things and this process when it fails must feel like an affront to their masculinity, after all its his job to give you a baby in his eyes.  Also don't underestimate the effect seeing you so upset will have on him, I was so shocked when my DP burst into tears after watching me struggle with my emotions when holding my friends baby, I hadn't realised that that must hurt like hell.  Go easy on yourself and him and remember how much you love each other, even when you want to throttle him.  Huge   to both of you.

Hi Roxy  thanks for the hug I am sorely needing it this week.  I lost my beautiful feisty aunt yesterday and I am really feeling the loss.  Its thrown all the 'circle of life' thoughts up again.  I have been supporting my cousin through the 3 weeks my aunt has been on life support.  They both live in America (as half of my family do) and although we don't see each other very often we are very close almost like sisters.  I have been really struggling to cope with trying to console her and mourning my lovely aunt at the same time.  I also had to break the news to my Dad that he'd lost another sister eight weeks after losing his eldest one, which was very hard to do.  So this week has been very emotional for me.  DP has been great letting me shut myself away in the bedroom and talk on the phone for hours.

Got to go the phone is ringing will finish my post later.  Much love xx


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## LellyLupin

Wow I can hardly believe it, it was my cousin telling my Uncle died about an hour ago.    Will post when I am in a better frame of mind.  Night all  xx


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## fififi

Lesley - so sorry to see you've had yet more sad family news. Thinking of you & hoping all this sadness doesn't knock you too hard    

MJ - will miss you but think you are doing right thing by stepping away from tx for a while & taking time to enjoy the excitement of planning your wedding. Do come by & post wedding things every so often and help some of us remember happy times can be had in life too


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## Coolish

Hi Lesley - crikey I've opened Pandora's box of questions! Anyway here goes -

*Will you be telling your baby she is from a DE when shes older?* I'm intending to do a little scrap book with scan photos, photos of us in Athens, bump photos etc to start to tell her story. I think this is a good start. There are also some useful children's story books out there that explain it in simple terms - there's thread on here that I'm being following that has some useful advice. At school a best friend of mine was adopted and she'd known from a very early age and was so proud that her parents had chosen her. I'd like to take a similar approach if possible.

*Does all of your family know?* My OH's folks know and were/are very supportive. I've not told my folks purely because they are 79 and I don't think they would understand it - from a technical point of view. Close friends know too, but I do work on a need to know basis 

*Did you ask for any particular attributes when you looked for a donor?* We only said we wanted someone with a similar build and colouring to me. I can't see the point in being too prescriptive about this - like a said before, 2 concert pianists could have sports mad footballing kid without a musical bone in the their body  Many children don't always look like their parents or look like a mini version of just one partner.

*Are you worried about being an older mother?* No, not really. I'm more happy to be finally being a mother. I've pretty fit for my age and look/feel about 10 years younger. My OH is 12 years younger too. I'm more financially secure these days too and I'm going to be able to spend much more time with a baby than I would have been able to 10 years ago. Most people my age have kids going off to university now, but it just didn't work put that way for me, but it's not something I would dwell on.

*Has anyone reacted badly to your news*. Actually not at all. Close friends know how long we've been trying and seem more excited than us  Our folks are also really pleased too. It was actualy really nice all the lovely messages we had when we announced at 12 weeks.

I hope I haven't waffled too much  It took me a little while to re-address the DE subject with my OH. I did quite a bit of research before discussing it with him, including short-listing clinics. I think men can come to terms with DE more easily than DS as they are still 'needed'.


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## Ka40

Morning lovely ladies
Thank you for your warm welcomes and Kirsty thanks for the advice and info re clinics.

Lesley - just read your latest posts and flippin heck.  Im so sorry to hear your sad news.  Sounds like your having such an awful time.  Sending big hugs your way hun.

Jules - Im with ya on your questions.  They are all the same worries that have been going through in my mixed up head at the mo.  It would be lovely to get others views. Though obviously this is very personal.

AJW - can I send you a big hug too.  I have an idea of what you are going through!  As if we don't go through enough, its difficult to deal with different coping mechanisms from the other half and your own feeling too.

Love to everyone else

AFM - Well I've cried and slept for 2 days now!  Think I made it to the end of the week following our BFN on Tuesday and once work finished Friday lunchtime that was it for me! Big heap of snot and tears.  I also had to have an emergency appointment at dentist as have cracked a filling which is painful.  More mega bucks and they cant fix for another 3 weeks!  Friday night AF came with arrogance!  The pain has been immense and sorry for the TMI but even extra super tampons are not doing the trick.  Safe to say I have no doubt of the result last Tuesday!!!!  I've not seen DP very much.  He was out Wed night and me Thurs night.  Fri I cried all night then we were both meant to be going to a 40th party last night but I couldn't pull meself together so he stayed at his mates.  We need some time to talk and get our head together.  DP defo doesn't want to use DE, if we have a baby it needs to be like us  Though I did say if its that or nothing what would he do?  But silence!  Going abroad would not be an option.  I've not been to Europe since my husband died in France in 2008 and 2 years before that my friend died whilst we holidayed in Spain.  I would never relax and stop worrying that one of us wouldn't come home!!!  I can't risk that.  I know that might sound mental, but neither my friend nor hubby had been ill previous and feel I am the common denominator here!!  anyway, that's a whole different 'problem'.  I feel I need some 'normality' for a bit, but don't want to leave it too long to try again with my own eggs?  This is so hard ain't it.  There seems to be preggers ladies and babies all around me at the mo which doesn't help.  Hey ho.  I feel like im a strong lady and I wont let this blip ruin my chances of completeness, it may just take a bit of time to build myself up from this one?
Thank you so much for listening
Lotsa love Ka xxx


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## Sushi Lover

Hello lovely ladies,

*ajw*.... really sorry to hear about your BFN. It is so heartbreaking when the embryos look good on the surface and still fail to implant. We've all been there and feel your pain. It's so hard not to get fed up and grumpy with the OH, and most of the time this escalates into rows and arguments. You are no different to the rest of us couples who feel utter despair and take it out on the person closest to us. It will get better I'm sure. Try and do some nice things together and not discuss anything fertility or treatment related. It's so easy to get lost in it all and talking about nothing else. This can get very depressing when it isn't working... so set aside some quality time and talk about fun, enjoyable things instead.

*Roxy*... hope you are feeling better after the op hun. Sounds like your health has been knocked sideways and your body needs building up again. Did you make a decision on TCM?

*Fififi*... Sorry about your AF being late hun and the nightmare that went with it. It's just so typical that when you want it to arrive it doesn't. Anyway, everything happens for a reason so perhaps that last donor wasn't your perfect match, but the next one will be. I firmly believe in fate.. so you don't know right now why that wasn't meant to be.. but I'm sure it will become clear as time moves on. Best of luck for Nov.!!

*Lesley*... That's good your Mum has an appt with the surgeon. So sorry about the sad news with your aunt and then your uncle... goodness, that's tough. I can imagine the whole circle of life thoughts are going through your head once again. It's inevitable. Will you go out to America to be with your cousin and attend the funeral? Or do logistics and finances get in the way? It's such a cruel state of affairs when money stops you doing what's in your heart. Take care.

*Debs*... hiya, are you back with us or still a guest?!

*Altai*.... Yes, it takes some long reading time that link! If you are working with a acupuncturist then maybe leave the DHEA to one side for the moment. TCM (Trad Chinese Medicine) is a good mix with acupuncture if you can stomach it!

*Cooljules*.... thanks for all those brilliant answers to Lesley's questions. I think they were Lesley's... lost track a bit. Really helpful anyway.

*Ka40*... sorry to hear you've been struggling honey. It is so tough to pick yourself up after a BFN. You will get there though. Sometimes our OH's don't know enough about donor eggs to make an informative decision. So you may need to educate him further! and I agree... choice between no baby or one born from a DE.... it's a no brainer really. You can do DE IVF in this country and don't need to travel abroad. Time is on your side to move to DE remember... you can do that at any age because it's the donor's age that's important, not yours...and you are only 41... so give it some more time naturally perhaps?

*MJ*..... I really don't blame you putting IVF to one side for the time being... what with all the wedding stuff to deal with.. and that's a lot more fun!

Hello *Salad, Hopeful, Cornwall, Ronnie* (haven't heard from you in a while?) xxx


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## LellyLupin

Hello girls  

Thanks for the kind thoughts I really appreciate them.  I won't be going over to America as there aren't going to be any funerals, my two aunts and my uncle are Atheists like me.  There are already arguments going on because my cousin Lisa wanted to have a little get together to honour all three of them for closure,  and my other cousin Julie is not happy about it as its not what her parents wished for.  I can see both sides of the argument,  but Julie must understand that her parents belonged to all of us, they were grandparents, brother and sister, aunt and uncle,  and not all of our family are Atheists.  I can't see the harm in having one,  Julie doesn't have to attend if it will upset her, shes done as they asked as a daughter and not arranged a funeral.  I am going to sit on the fence though as I just don't want to get into it,  I haven't got the energy.  I wouldn't be able to afford to attend a funeral anyway as I am trying to pay my ivf debts off.    I have a feeling my cousin Lisa will be coming to see me and I would love to give her a hug and spend some time face to face with her. I will miss my Aunt Nora the most (Lisa's mom), she was a very beautiful feisty lady and I had huge admiration for her.  Anyway change of subject.


Feefs thanks  right back at you though,  re AF and DE, it will all fall into place I am sure and I am a great believer in fate as Kirsty says, even if I don't believe in God.  

Debs hope you are ok honey and your fur babies are doing ok too.xx


MJ I think you are right to throw yourself into your wedding preps,  and taking a break from all the thinking, wishing, stress etc.  A wedding is a very special event so you should enjoy the fuss and the stress (happy stress).  I do hope if you are in the vicinity that you will drop us a line,  I love a bit of wedding news and Feefs is right we need to remind ourselves that life is not just about babies.

Jules thanks for answering my questions, I wouldn't tell either set of parents because they are very old fashioned and wouldn't understand, my MIL to be has already stated that I am too old now, I love how opinionated people with children can be   , I am not even sure I would tell my child, but then again it would be too huge a secret to keep, Arghh I am stressing and I am not even in the situation    I really do like your approach though, you are going to be a fantastic mum    Hey you didn't answer the names question!  

Ka  you sound like the rest of us at various points in our journeys, we've all been that heap of snot and tears at one time or another.  I remember being confident at my first attempt at ivf and a blubbering wreck by my second BFN, I feel that the second one is worse, because it suddenly occurs to you that this may not be as easy as you once thought.  Talking about it helps it really does.  On the abroad subject,  no wonder you feel like you do,  I can understand why you don't want to go,  but I am sure you will break that cycle and move on from the fear in your own time.  Sounds like you have really been through the mill.  On the DE subject my DP is the same as yours sadly, I daren't even bring it up.   With you on the babies, pregnant ladies everywhere front, and the amount of bloody baby commercials drives me crackers,  you can't get away from it and it makes it really hard to forget about even for an hour or too.  I might write in and complain!!!

Hi to Hopeful, Sally, Cornwall and anyone else I have missed. xxx


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## fififi

Lesley - glad you're feeling little less overwhelmed by everything now. Can't believe how much sadness your family has had in such short space of time. Must be even harder when so many are in a different country      - hope your cousin does come over to spend time with you. That way you can reminisce on the good times and happy memories you both have of your Aunt(s) and Uncle.

Cooljules - am soooo jealous that in few weeks now you are going to be most smiley mummy in world. You have obviously spent lot of time thinking about how to accept and benefit from DE and your answers to Lesley's questions are very interesting. You've one very lucky kid in there - fantastic womb to be coming from      

KA - hugs for you     
Coping with BFN takes lot of time and there's so many hurdles thrown in as well. Don't rush to feel like you should be "over it" - you've been hugely let down and now need to allow yourself some TLC. Right now you'll also be extra hormonal & emotional so rows with other half perfectly normal     
If you do opt for DE then plenty of excellent clinics in UK - plus the cost might not be so much higher in comparison with OE cycle depending on the amount of stimulation drugs you need for OE cycle. I was on 6 menopur vials a day with OE so not having those on my drugs bill took my costs down by nearly £1000 - meaning that although DE cycle was about £2500 more upfront, in reality it was closer to an extra £1500. Still lots of money but not as much more as I'd initially thought.

Kirsty - hi there hun   . Where are you upto now? There's been so many posts I've lost track. Need to keep a notebook with me when on here I think!!!! 
Thanks for words of reassurance - I'm a bit of a believer in fate too ... it's certainly led to lots of lovely events in my past ... here's hoping my delays and change of donor are for good reason     

Hugs to everyone else - must fly as sooooooo tired ....Night!


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## Sushi Lover

Morning *Fififi*,

Well, I'm a bit in limbo really. Had my hysteroscopy and laparoscopy... no polyps, fibroids, scar tissue in the uterus. Lining all looked lovely and healthy, nice and pink. No inflammation and no infection showed up on the biopsy results. The only thing found was a section of endometriosis attaching the outside of my womb to my bowel. But she said it's old 'inactive' tissue that looks more like scar tissue now... so no active endo (shows up as red dots) that would have an effect on fertility. In some ways I'm disappointed for them not to have found something specific to 'fix'... but in others, it's comforting to know nothing is stopping me from falling pregnant... apart from the egg quality that is!! Always comes back to the same thing. Anyway, I have a frozen embie to use still, but my cycle is now out of kilter after the op so I need that to get back to normal and then plan the FET for Nov time. My AF is a week late now, so annoying when you want everything to get back to normal isn't it? The consultant said it's often late after the operation. Just waiting really....

Speak soon! xxx


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## fififi

Hi Kirsty - I had laproscopy & hysteroscopy back in Feb and my AF then was delayed by about 10 days & I too was told that was normal.
It's crazy how what's meant to be good news from an investigation leaves us wishing they'd actually found something?!!! Every time me or DH have been tested for something I secretly wanted it to come back as positive so that it could be treated. Being diagnosed with unexplained infertility is just not a diagnosis! (My op required lots of endo to be removed & some polyps so got all optimistic afterwards but sadly even the revamp didn't help  )
Enjoy a bit of time away from clinic/hospital and once your cycle is back on track & you are ready to give things your best shot then FET sounds really exciting. From lots I've read it often gets better results for over 40s     
Hugs


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## Sushi Lover

Yes, I've heard the same thing from others too about AF being late.  It really messes with your head though!  Hate it.  I agree about the 'unexplained infertility' diagnosis..  it really isn't a diagnosis at all... more of a 'we haven't a clue why you have infertility'.  Rubbish!  Sorry your revamp didn't do the trick naturally, but surely it must increase your chances of DE IVF succeeding?!  I really do hope it works for you in Nov Fifi and the year finishes on a good note.  

My consultant wants to do a FET using my natural cycle, so the fewest amount of drugs possible. Nothing to stimulate the lining etc., just go with the flow!  He thinks this more natural/kinder/softer approach could do the trick.  We shall see....

xx


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## fififi

My acupuncturist told me last week that 2 of her clients have got pregnant from natural IVF recently and that was after they'd previously done full on cycles. (Made me wonder about trying that instead of DE but realistically my chances now are so low I think its best I stick with the 50% chance option and hopefully achieve what we've spent the last 5 years seeking as opposed to giving things one last chance!)
Definitely would go for that option if I had any frosties - all very promising xxx


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## Altai

Hi ladies,

Hope all well considering circumstances.


Artist_mum, thanks, il definitely call to Penny at least to find out if I like to go there.
Apparently ARCg not welcoming to single ladies, so they r out of question for me.

Am in London, so now looking at lister or crgh as next clinic.

Am ready to give a go to dhea & Chinese herbs, it just a matter if finding a reputable Chinese acupuncturist.
Gosh, that would be my 4th accupuncturist in the last 3 months.

Fifi, actually my previous clinic suggested I do natural ivf as next step as better for older ladies.
Makes me wonder why they initially suggested mild ivf.
Perhaps u could give it a try.


Best of luck to everyone.


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## fififi

Altai - don't tempt my mind into further pastures!!!!
Sadly having been on this crazy TTC rollercoaster since 2003 we are now at our financial and emotional limit. I supposedly had my last ever TX a year ago but managed to persude DH to have one last try. I've found it a real struggle to move from OE to DE, especially since it was us who raised it rather than our consultant. As a couple we've created Grade A embryos but only in small numbers that either don't implant or have sadly led to MC. Swapping to DE would have been easier if I wasn't aware that there is still a "chance" that we could find the right embryo were we to have another go. But time has dragged on and DH & I decided that since what we desparately want is a baby we've opted for the better odds option (50% chance of pg versus my 15%, combined with 15% risk of MC versus my 50%).

Do hope you find a clinic you're happy with. (I'm at Nurture, Nottingham which has good results for over 38s.)

If you want any advice on DHEA let me know - I've recently stopped taking it but did so until I was due to start DE cycle. My clinic are running a trial into it's effectiveness http://www.nurture.ac.uk/news/can-dhea-improve-pregnancy-rates-in-women-with-low-ovarian-reserve - I was recommended for the trial but opted out as wanted to know I was taking the DHEA not smarties!!!!
Can also get you a discount code for DHEA from Biovea if you decide to buy standard type. Kirsty took micronised type.


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## hopeful68

Hi Ladies, still here just busy with shifts and study!!! had a horrid job at the w/end - a girl raped at knife point. it is a mad world, I have seen so much madness and badness I don't thing I could be comfortable bringing a child in to it now - I guess I am 80% past my IVF traumas! also had a nice job - funny really - when an elderly lady with I guess dementia had had a total melt down so we had to try and convey her to the secure mental hospital. I was working with my not so nice crew mate and she called him fat (true he is), ugly (true he is) and grumpy (true he is)!!! then she said I was nice and slim - obviously she had a relapse at that point but it had me chuckling for a good while!!

only had a few hrs sleep yesterday and took the van to Devon for the first part of the conversion... camping holls next year - cant wait! so tired I forgot to go to a training day today so was told I could arrive for my shift as it was already covered so had an extra day off - although used it to study for my next module at uni starting in 2 wks!! 

Also not sleeping as some scrotes (illegal fishermen) have threatened to put fireworks through the letter box. (DH is a fisheries enforcement officer).

as you can see my focus is most definitely not on babies!! I also read (for uni) an article on stress and its effects on the body. not wanting to stress any of you.... but do relax, chill out and learn to manage your stress! given stress can cause cancer, heart problems and much more I cant imagine the effects on fertility and embryos. I know from my own experience it is easier said than done!

I wont be leaving the thread and hope I can offer occasional advice to those needing it but am in the mind set that I am accepting of my fate - I also watched the film 'Adjustment Bureau' and can see parallels. - worth a watch ...... having accepted this, it has taken a weight off and allowed me to focus on US.

Sorry to start with a me post. I have skimmed through posts to catch up, I got stuck with Lesley and her night of horror and family tragedy. I send (a belated) hug your way and hope the plans for a celebration of life/wake pan out - not necessarily a funeral but lives need to be remembered even if it is 'down the pub'!

I cant comment on other clinics and Tx plans so wont - other than to say do your home work and follow your instinct! 

I hope those with relationship strains can ride them out. this is THE most stressful process I have ever been through as a couple. we have been together 16yrs and still found it difficult to communicate our feelings and needs. we did however get through it all. not sure if we are closer for it or just back to normal but the friction has gone so be patient with each other and remember that they are hurting too and blokes are always worse at sharing so bottle it up until they explode (normally at us!)

take care - but no condoms!!  until next time... knackered and off to bed, night all!


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## Ronnie3007

Hi Girls,

I have not been about since August due to having to sort out getting my Daughter to Germany.  She came on holiday then decided she did not want to return to Daddy.  In the midst of this we were trying with Clomid, I went for my follie scan only to find out that my cyst was still there and was sent away with progesterone tablets.  Well since then my Daughter is now with me but due to the financial cost of lawyers and also my Daughter not wanting a little brother or sister now we have halted the IVF journey.

I saw my gynae today and I have a cyst on both sides now, so I am on the pill for 3 months to hopefully sort my hormones out.

I wish you all the luck in the world on your journeys.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx   xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## deblovescats

hi everyone
will do longer posts to everyone - but despite repeatedly logging in, the site keeps not letting me post as i'm a guest!!! So frustrating
AFM - had phone call from clinic last week, to say that donor has started stimms Fri 11th so to start climaval. I had had a bit of a panic as had a light period last Tues - thought this would wreck timing of cycle, but nurse said this can happen with down reg and advised to take 1 climaval each day, then start 3 from Friday. Got a scan booked Tuesday 22nd to check lining. Seems to be a few days later than planned. ET might be w/c 28th Oct now, will see on Tues. Getting a bit anxious now - it seems so long coming then it all happens suddenly. 
Last week was a mad week - trying to relax but mother had to go into hospital for a planned gynae op - she had a bit of a heart scare with allergy to anaesthetic, so now waiting to see cardiologist. Also, one of my gorgeous fur babies, Timmy, was ill the other weekend - he was very sleepy and not eating.drinking, so very worrying. Took him to the vet who found he'd been bitten by the local massive cat bully! Timmy is such a timid boy, he was picked on. He had a temperature, so had to have antibiotic and anti inflammatory injections - within a few days he was back to normal, his usual cuddly self, eating and drinking! So glad .... 
I am so scared now about the tx not working though trying to think positive thoughts! 
So glad of the support on here! Will try and post personals, but having such problems with the site
Deb


----------



## deblovescats

seems to be working now so will try and post again!
altai - welcome to this thread - I find all the ladies on here so supportive, don't know how I'd cope without it!
jules - so glad pregnancy going well, just think you'll soon have your little girl, your story gives such hope that we can all get a positive outcome! 
kirsty - glad the tx went well, but know it's frustrating when you don't get an answer to why you've not been successful!
hopeful - so glad you' ok and you've come to terms with your decision, and that you can enjoy life and see there are alternatives out there!
fiffi - glad you've made a decision about DE - I agree that you need to give yourself the best chance of a positive outcome, especially when we're funding ourselves and money's tight. I'm trying to think positive thoughts, but I'm already starting to set money to one side for a future tx, although I hope with everything crossed, that it won't be necessary! So scary ....
lesley - great to see you're around - so sorry to hear the sad family news - it hits hard especially when you're wrestling with other decisions! I really empahasised with you about your post about DE. I really grieve sometimes for the fact I've not had a chance to have a biological child, but then I get my rational head on, and think I'm on my own, don't have unlimited money, so need to give myself the best chance of success, and that's with DE. After reading my donor's pen portrait, I felt so positive and relieved - it was so sensitively and beautfiully written, I thought I'd be happy to have a child with these characteristics, and with epigenetics, I can give of myself (if I'm lucky enough to get a BFP)
I do appreciate you guys, and you keep me sane (relatively ...!)
Deb


----------



## Sushi Lover

Sorry for lack of personals, but need some advice.

My AF was over a week late and then yesterday I had a really bad bleed of bright red (pillar box) blood.  Never had this before.  Haven't done a test so don't know if it was a 'near miss'.

Could it just be a heavy period?  I'm more concerned about the colour than anything else.  It's properly red.  Never seen AF like it!

Any ideas what's going on ladies?  Could it be the 'after affects' of the hysteroscopy?  

xxx


----------



## fififi

Kirsty a bright red bleed is due to lack of clotting. Can't remember off hand what my AF was like after surgery but it's highly possible that since you've had a big clean out with the surgery there was very little womb lining to shed hence the faster bleed & lack of time for it to be in the body & darken as it takes time to come out.
Don't worry hun - pretty normal


----------



## Altai

Hi ladies, 


fifi, am sorry, can completely understand you going for DE. If it gives best chance, then worth trying.
It is difficult decision to make.
But as Deb said most of us don't have unlimited funds.  And you tried as long as you could.

Thanks for the link re dhea. I read that some women reported hair loss when taking dhea. This is what puts me off as 
I've thinning hair.  
But i'll try anyway. 

hugs to all


----------



## fififi

Debs - wishing you mountains of babydust for this cycle, really hope you are posting happy news soon    

Altai - whilst on DHEA I became moody cow and very quick tempered...on plus side no hair loss. Did get greasy hair & few spots at first (2-3 weeks). Sadly didn't improve my libido or make me feel any younger but definitely thought it was worth trying


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks so much for the reassurance *Fififi*

xx


----------



## artist_mum

*kirsty* I have been bleeding most days since my hysto (nearly 2 weeks ago) just a little but very bright red! so it must be the same thing. I think the alternative practitioners consider bright red to be a good thing (i.e no old blood) xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks *Rox*... it's nice to know I'm not alone! Yes, I thought the same about 'new' blood, rather than old.

xx


----------



## deblovescats

Hi guys
Just wanted to update everyone. Not been online for a few days as been at a conference - very interesting, but all focused around families so quite stressful - I've also stayed over in York with some of the girls from work, but not told them what's going on. I had to fit in a scan appointment yesterday in Sheffield - so got there for 8 am - was up at 5 am! Scan fine - lining between 7 and 8 - previous cycle was 10.2 so I thought perhaps it's not thick enough, but nurse said it was fine. However, last time it was a BFN any way! 
Had phone call today - donor had EC - I've got 12 eggs so over the moon (obviously have to see how they fertilize and develop) - will find out tomorrow. Started the pessaries today - so back on that track again! 
The plan is to go to blast if they are doing ok, and will be scheduled in on Monday, if not, might have ET on Friday. So we'll see.
I'm really nervous now - while you're waiting for treatment, it seems a long way ahead, but now it's here, it's nerve wracking.
Hope everyone's doing well
Deb


----------



## fififi

Deb - that's all fantastic news. Must be extra hard trying to do all this and conceal it from people so nearby, don't envy you that one.
12 eggs from your donor couldn't be better - will be thinking of you tonight and willing those eggs to become super embies for you                . Will be sending extra hugs "northwards" direction to you ready for that so scary phonecall tomorrow - really hoping the good news continues          
Huge hugs for now        

PS. Really admire you doing all this on your own. I think you're an incredible lady and are going to soon become an incredible mum


----------



## fififi

Deb - how have you got on? Been thinking of you all day. Really hope all is ok


----------



## deblovescats

thanks for your lovely post fiffi! You make me think that yes I can do it on my own! At least, I won't regret trying!
Had the phone call from the clinic this morning - was dreading it, but it was good news, I just hope it keeps on being good! Out of the 12 eggs, 11 had fertilized, and 10 have continued developing, so I've potentially got 10 embryos, although I know they can stop at any point! The clinic have provisionally booked me in for embryo transfer tomorrow at 5 pm, but they're hoping to push on till Monday for transfer to blast. I'll get a phone call in the morning to give an update about their development, I'm so hoping they're doing well - I think this is one of the worst stages! You seem to have got so far, and it can go wrong. If more than 4 survive, they're going to go to blast, otherwise, transfer tomorrow. I'm so nervous!!! And not to have told anyone at work, is really stressful. I've purposely not booked anything into my diary at work for Friday and Monday just in case, but it's the waiting that's hard. I've got paperwork, computer and phone calls to occupy me.
I'm now on to the dreaded pessaries - to be inserted vaginally (2 x 200 mg morning and evening) I've been panicking that they're not in far enough (I know - TMI) as a bit leaks out - so I've been googling like mad, and it seems that this happens a lot! 
Hope everyone's ok.
Deb


----------



## fififi

wahhhoooo - that's great news Debs 
Am sure you won't need my thoughts tomorrow but will send plenty of hugs and positive energies your way in case ... fingers & toes crossed for blasts on Monday                  

You're at constant stress stage right now - I feel nervous just thinking of you getting those phonecalls ... they really cause my whole body to freeze. That's a good amount of embies there so hopefully it's wasted energy being used up.
As for pessaries - yuck! - try and lie down for at least 20 minutes after using. Makes big difference - I used the time to listen to Zita West relaxation CD. My clinic said better to lie down and having timings slightly out than do 12 hourly exact. So I did morning ones about 6, and evening ones 7.


----------



## Coolish

Good luck Debs! Great numbers on those embies. I used to do the same as fififi. I'd pop them up as far as they'd go (yeah, TMI) and lie down for at least 20 mins and listen to my Circle+Bloom. You still get the 'residue' come out, but the important bit should have been absorbed by then. I was on 2 x 200, 3 times a day for a while and found panty liners were my must have accessory...


----------



## fififi

Debs - hope the silence isn't bad news   
Will assume ET is tomorrow and looking forward to hearing from you once you're PUPO - huge hugs & hand squeezes for tomorrow      
And lots of positive baby filled energy too


----------



## Altai

Hi everyone,

Hope all goes well. I've been quiet for a while waiting for my next appointment. 
Sorry for the luck of personals but I need you advice.

I had a  consultation with Lister last week regarding my next steps and have been left very confused. 

Dr told that at my age I have low chance of pregnancy ( I am 44 yo, and I knew that), so I can go with either IUI or IVF doesn't matter.

I don't have any underlining medical conditions, which could affect fertility. Apart from the age  .. 

When I started this journey, I wanted to have  3  attempts at iui and if they fail, do ivf, which according to my initial plan should have been this Nov.
Since all previous consultants said that iui has low chance of pregnancy, especially at that age. I had mild ivf icsi this September-poor response to gonal f, 2 mature follies, 2 embryos, 2dt, BPN.

Now  unsure what to do next: IUI or IVF? IUI after IVF 

I know there is an iui thread but ladies there are younger. Oh, I'd kill to be 40 again 

I can see that some of you ladies had both. 
Your advice would be very appreciated. 


Thanks and best of luck to all.


----------



## fififi

Altai - I would say go with IVF. My previous clinic told us the odds were the same but the one we're at now with much better stats felt that IUI was a waste of time due to fact the biggest percentage chance would only ever be around 5%. With IVF there's more embies so your chances increase - we were entering into the cycle with a 5% chance but once had any fertilised eggs this increased to 20%, then 30% with good quality blasts.
I personally now regret wasting a year on IUI instead of heading straight for IVF. Financially it's very tempting but chances are lower. Plus side is clomid is far nicer than stims & body not left in such a state! Does your clinic offer natural IVF? That seems quite a good option from what I've read recently - don't know lots as we've now moved to DE but could be worth looking at.
I too wish could turn clock back a few years rather than just the one hour!!!!

PS. There's an IUI thread in the over 40s somewhere I'm sure


----------



## Altai

Fifi, thank you. I wasn't sure about Iui now as running out of time for this.
Create recommended either natural ivf  or dose increase for my second cycle. But for the first cycle even they said higher  chance with mild. 
I am now deciding whether to move to Lister or crgh. Don't think lister does natural ivf - I read in one of their leaflets that they do not routinely recommend it in a view of increasing chances of pregnancy.

When I asked lister  whether high doses of stimm drugs could affect eggs quality, dr said no.
But Other studies seem to imply it could. 
It's all very confusing.

am also having cons with crgh & serum this week.

Thank u.


----------



## fififi

Altai - my clinic were pretty clear that more stims didn't change egg quality. In my experience it certainly didn't - first IVF cycle just 1 egg which became good embryo but no joy, second cycle stims increased to maximum dosage (menopur) & I got 5 eggs I think, 3 of which made it to blasts and 1 of those was highest grade possible.
Hope you find the best clinic for you soon


----------



## fififi

Debs - hope all okay. Thinking about you


----------



## Altai

I've decided to go with ivf Lister at the end. At this age better to maximise chances.

If this doesn't work ( god forbids) , will try Iui following month.



Debs, hope all is ok with you.


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Debs*... what's happening?! The suspense is killing me!

Hope all is well 

xxx


----------



## deblovescats

Hi everyone
Thanks for the kind wishes. Sorry to have alarmed anyone! 
AFM Well - the good news is I'm now PUPO with one good quality blast aboard! I've also got 3 frozen blasts of Grade A quality, so I feel relieved as at least I've got back up for further attempts, although I'm petrified at the moment of coping if it doesn't work. I've been panciking about not having any symptoms so far - although I know it's really early days and not everyone gets them anyway. Now trying to cope with the dreaded 2WW - I swear it gets harder each time! 
I had a mad private panic today as a silly woman came into my baby clinic with her young baby, who she thought had chicken pox!!! Fancy bringing a possibly infected baby into a clinic with lots of other babies (plus one PUPO woman!) It was hard as I haven't told anyone at work - so my colleague in clinic didn't know of my panic. Thankfully, I had chicken pox as a child, and I've read that this means any potential baby will be ok (at least that's what I'm hoping!)
Yesterday was stressful - ET would be on the day the country was coping with Storm St Jude! All the trains were late and I was pushing it to get to clinic on time, but I made it. Then as I hadn't had many drinks all morning, despite drinking 3 glasses of water, my bladder wasn't filling, so the doctor couldn't visulalise my womb! I had to drink more water which still didn't work, so there was me getting panicky! In the end, they did it with a guide catheter, and the doctor said it went in very quickly and straightforward, so I'm hoping that all will be well. I got a photo of the embryo before it was transferred which was emotional. The embryologist said that all the embryos are good Grade A quality, with the potential to develop into babies! So I'm trying to think positive thoughts now.
Seem to have got the pessaries sorted - thanks for the advice - have been laying down for about 20 mins and relaxing or reading a book.
Hope everyone doing ok.
Debx


----------



## Salad4

Debs - exciting news - I'm keeping everything crossed for you.
Sorry for not posting recently - I'm still working through next steps.  Hope everyone is ok & will reply properly soon.
Sally


----------



## Sushi Lover

Great news *Debs*.... I'm so happy for you. Congrats on being PUPO. I really hope it's sticky one!

Try and rest up as much a possible xxxx


----------



## MJ1

Great news Debs, I hope all goes well for your 2WW. We need lots of BFP's on here  

Sorry rant coming......... have just had SIL number 2 pregnancy confirmed and it is twins! Oh what joy. Sorry girls if that sounds really bad but I can't help feeling that way and the Wedding mags are not helping today. I just get soooooooooooooooooooo   frustrated I have never known a woman to fall so easliy. She already has 2 girls of which DP is Godfather.. now two more, they decide to try and she falls just like that!........... urghhhhhhhh just waiting for it to get splurged all over **. 
They called us last night as she wanted to let us know before sharing the news on **. Sorry girls but I had no-where else to turn, apart from writing exactly what I think on **, which will proably not help.  DP just takes it in his stride and I get so flippin angry with all the fertility stuff, and it is infertility awareness week too!  

Thanks for listening
Love MJ xxxxx


----------



## deblovescats

Thanks kirsty, salad, mj - so no pressure then!! 
mj - i so feel for you - I get so fed up with hearing all baby news from friends and colleagues. In the last 2 years, 2 colleagues fell pregnant by accident with their 3rd! So frustrating - especially having to cover maternity leave. I always thinks when is it my turn!  Mj - you rant all you like, we all understand. 
AFM - I'm trying to relax, but it's hard, at least being at work takes my mind off things. And I keep saying to myself at least I've got the back up for further attempts! Trouble is I'm now symptom watching and panicking that I haven't got any! Crazy I know! I think the 2WW is the worst bit - but then I said that through the whole cycle.
I find it hard as well in my job being surrounded by happy families (well alright not all so happy but at least they've got kids!) I think i go into a detached box where I don't let my emotions engage or otherwise couldn't cope with the job.
Deb
x


----------



## artist_mum

hi *debs* Just to wish you loads of luck and sending you positive thoughts.. The 2ww can def be a challenge! Wishing you all the best xx


----------



## fififi

Deb - how are you getting on? When's OTD? Hope time has passed quickly for you and things are looking good still


----------



## deblovescats

thanks for the good wishes fifif, artist, salad, kirsty, mj and anyone else I'm forgotten in my excitement.
My God, I can't believe it but I've got a BFP! I feel very overwhelmed as I've never had this result before. In my last 2 cycles I didn't have any implantation symptoms, and didn't this time, so I was convinced it was BFN again. I weakened on Wed as I was sure it was pointless, so I tested with a cheap POAS and got a BFN. I then left it a few days, in the meantime trying to come to terms with the result and planning for another cycle. I finally tested again on Sat morning and couldn't believe my eyes when I got a faint BFP. I tested later in the day, still BFP. I was sure it was a false positive. Then OTD tested on clinic POAS and got a BFP, then later tested again with a Clear Blue Digi stick - got a definite 'pregnant 2-3 weeks' which I know means 4-5 weeks. I'm trying to come to terms with it and now panicking about coping on my own! Its funny, you want something for so long, then when you get it, you can't believe it. I just hope that the BFP stays. Tested again this morning (I have a little POAS stock pile - I've got quite addicted!) and still BFP.
I've also had possible pregnancy symptoms but not sure whether it's too early and I'm imagining it - I've been nauseous at times for a few days, was sick in the evening ,and I've been needing to wee more often.
I have to phone clinic today for update.
Good luck to anyone currently cycling or testing. 
I'm so happy - I have to pinch myself.
I couldn't do this journey without you guys - you're great!
Deb


----------



## Coolish

Debs - I've just posted on the other thread but thought I'd say it again - congratulations!


----------



## fififi

Wahhhhoooooooooo!!!!!! 
               

Brilliant news - totally thrilled for you. Make sure you keep us updated as you get bigger & bigger     It's so good to get some positive news as gives me hope that one day I might be posting similar news    

Bet you are so smiley right now - especially when you have to keep nipping to the toilet!!!!


----------



## MJ1

Fabtastic new Debs!! yippeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee      
Love MJ xxxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Oh my God!!!! *Debs*, that is absolutely amazing news! I am just as thrilled as Fifi! Gives us all hope for sure.

I'm having my FET this cycle, so hoping your good news rubs off on me. I bet you can't quite believe it. 

So, so happy for you! Many congratulations honey xxxxxx


----------



## Moominmum

I mainly read this thread at the moment but when I read your news *Debs* I just had to write CONGRATULATIONS! That is so amazing!


----------



## Chandlerino

Congratulations Debs - about time we saw a Bfp on here. Xxx


----------



## hopeful68

Like Moominmum, I am mainly reading not posting but missed a few days so a BIG congratulations to Debs! Next is first scan date so fingers crossed all is at the right size, shape and stage for you then!! so happy for you.


----------



## MJ1

Good luck Kirsty   , keep us all posted. Although I am on 'hold' at the moment I still pop on to read all your posts.
Love
MJ1 xxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks *MJ*, looks like it will be about 27th or 28th of Nov. Depending how my lining looks at the scans. Going for a natural cycle.... So no medication. Thaw success is 80%. They won't do the defrost until about an hour before transfer! Eeeekkkk! We'll see..... Excited and nervous.

X


----------



## fififi

kirsty - how exciting getting your FET in before Xmas. Really hope this is the one


----------



## deblovescats

Thanks fiffi, kirsty, mj, hopeful, chandlerino, moomin - I feel like I've had such great support from this thread - you're all wonderful! Couldn't have got to this stage without you. Can't believe it still. Waiting now to get appointment from clinic for scan - don't think i'll believe it till then, just hoping everythings' going to go well.
I hope that this gives everyone who's cycling some hope that it can happen! 
I'll stick around to give support and update but don't want to go on too much and cause anyone any distress! 
I have booked an appointment with my GP next week just to discuss what will happen, as she asked me to update her with outcome and was very supportive in getting my pre tx bloods done on NHS! I know I won't need appt with midwife yet, but I understand gets booked up , so can ask when I need to book one then.
Deb


----------



## Moominmum

*Debs* - I think I speak for everyone here, but it is lovely to follow someone's joy, so please update us! 

*Kirsty*, how exciting - so soon! And how nerve wracking that the defrost is happening just before ET. 

 to all


----------



## MJ1

*Kirsty*, OMG... how exciting... will be keeping everything crossed hunny you soo deserve it.     
*Debs*, don't stop your posts hun, if anyone deserves to wallow and enjoy pregnancy it is us girls on here, so post all you like, it is so lovely to get good uplifting news, esp from the friends I have made on here  
xx


----------



## deblovescats

thanks moomin and mj - I will keep in touch and update you all. I do so pray that you all get a good outcome, you all deserve it so much. I really have appreciated all the support after my 2 previous BFNs.
AFM - still coming to terms with it! Not told any one at work yet - that'll be the biggest shock to everyone - I think they'd all thought there'd be no more maternity leaves for anyone - they've all got kids of various ages! 
Will look forward to breaking the news, but waiting till I've had the scan. Just waiting for an appointment letter at the clinic.
Just had a good morning - all of us at a training session about learning disability parents, so interesting and a break from the day to day routine of work!
Deb


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

i wonderd if i could jion you?
debslovescats congratulations you give me hope.
i wondered if you ladies could give me advice, i just had my review and although my consultant agreed for me to do another cycle with me, he gave me an 8% chance of getting pregnant, now i am 43, unfortunately missed miscarried twins on my 2nd ivf, 3 iuis bnf, ex partner of 12 years infertile. I felt like up until the last year i hadn't even given my fertility a chance, admitedly in 11 months i had 5 fertility treatments. I just have no known problems and wondered what to do, i like my clinic, they don't really have any statstics for over 42 years, they don't like to treat over 44 years. I have produced 16 or 18 eggs but only 1 good enough to go to blast, i made it to 5 day transfer on 2nd ivf so took that as good, got pregnant just miscarried. my consultant said he would up my stims for next go as indicated i wanted one more chance. my clinic is close i like everyone. should i move clinics to do mild ivf or even consider penny at serum. i am in such a dilema, i was offered to start long protocol today which i would love to do but feel i need to have a natural period since erpc and also have a bad shoulder so i really want to at least know whats wrong before i start ivf, plus the nurse  was worried about bfn at xmas so soon after miscarriage. am i foolish wasting my parents money to give another shot, i want the best possible chance. any advice


----------



## ArmyWife

Hi Ladies, 

My name is Liesa and I was hoping to join your thread. 

I will admit to not reading through it all as yet because I just popped online to check messages. I usually hang out on the Dogus thread (Cyprus clinic), but I recently received a BFN and I wanted to soothe my soul a little by reading up on what might help next time round. 

I will pop by again tomorrow to read back and see if anyone else has asked the questions I have in mind. Maybe the answer is already lurking about somewhere...

Cheers,
Liesa


----------



## A J

Hi ladies,

Can I join you here too?

I have just had another bfn (using donor eggs) but am still keeping that little bit of hope that things will work out...maddly enough I even have this little bit of hope that it will happen naturally.... who am I kidding I'm 44!!!

A J xx


----------



## hopeful68

Firstly AJ - sorry to hear your news. at 43 I know my miracle will never happen so I get where you are coming from. 
Chocochine and Army Wife, welcome too. 
Sorry any of you have to join this page at all. I am sure you will get some sound advice from the ladies here - unfortunately between us I think we have covered almost all available options!


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Gosh we have all had such a tough time I wish you all luck ladies. I wish thre was some advice for us all.


----------



## julesbfd

Hi ladies

I haven't posted for a while now but read each day.  In the past 18 months I have had 3 attempts, sadly bfn on all, I did get a good number of eggs but just no implantation, I now have inj progesterone, steroids and clexane .
On my last attempt they froze 6 which the plan was/is to defrost all six.  I have started the fet process, had my prostap,due a scan on Wednesday to start taking other meds,I am 42 next month.

Due to my mum recently getting diagnosed with breast cancer and the ivf, my doc referred me to see if they would do a mammogram, I had that a week last Friday, I got a letter on Thursday calling me back.  I was at the hospital Friday, they have found two areas they are concerned about, had lots more images taken, they are areas of calcification and they hoped that by doing more in depth images they would show as a certain shape, sadly they didn't.  I then had to have a biopsy in both places, ten times in each spot whilst my boob was pressed in this vice, ouch
They are thinking early stage breast cancer.  On Wednesday I get the results,same day I am at ivf clinic.  If it's a positive result as they seem to think,  it will be game over for my ivf which I am devastated about, can't believe it's happening.
I have now been reading, probably shouldn't the links to the big c, mind saying ghat I would have still gone ahead and done my cycles as I believe we all would, I just can't believe if I have, it's going to shatter my dreams.
Sorry for rambling, just getting it off my chest.

Jules xx


----------



## fififi

Jules    
Oh hun, you really are in tough place at moment. Can't imagine how scared you must be about Weds. Coping with failed ivf cycles is difficult, getting ready for another is hard but awaiting results from breast scan at same time on top of already worrying about your own mum is a huge stress.

Do hope you've someone you can talk to locally about all this and relieve bit of the pressure. Although it's an almost impossible task try to keep positive. Could you delay FET for time being as even with a positive result Weds I think going into cycle now is not good timing as you want body & mind to be in best place they can.
Right now there's lots of negatives being thrown at you but they are not brick walls     With a bit of time there will be solutions both as far as treatment for any cancer, plus other ways to achieve a baby. Not the paths you wanted to take but still ones that will lead you to happiness   

Will be thinking of you, especially on Weds, and hoping that you get good news. Big, big hugs


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

jules i hope hope you get a good result on wednesday but if not may be delay the fet till after treatment x thinking of you x


----------



## ArmyWife

Jules, that is a crappy and worrying situation.  I hope you receive positive news on Wed. Good luck x


----------



## hopeful68

Jules - hoping you Wednesday is a positive one all round. I work with 2 breast cancer survivors. my gran beat it nearly 50yrs ago. early recognition, early treatment generally provides good outcomes. stay positive and don't panic until there is something to worry about. difficult to shift your focus from IVF to anything else but we are here for support. perhaps take a counselling session to get a perspective on things.....


----------



## Salad4

I haven't been on for ages, and so just want to say to Debs - bloody brilliant news - so exciting.
Julesbfd - sorry about the news.  I hope Weds brings good news, but all you can do is take it one step at a time.
I don't feel that I can help anyone with questions, as I don't really have any advice to offer - no success for me so far.
I'm currently trying out duofertility to keep my head calm (make me feel that I'm doing something!) whilst I wait for my friend to get tests to see if she would be a suitable egg donor.
love to everyone - Sally


----------



## julesbfd

Hi
Thankyou all for your kind words about my current situation, I will deal with whatever happens,I just hope that it isn't the end of my ivf journey.
I'm better when I have a plan whereas at the moment it is all out of my hands,Wednesday cannot come fast enough although I am scared and anxious too.
I will have lots of questions about the big c but also if it is an end to the ivf or if there is any way around things which don't mean years as due to age etc, I don't have the time.

Today has been mad at work which in some ways is good, I am a social worker so has also been a stressful day with lots of things going wrong,normally I just take it in my stride but found it a little harder today as already feeling anxious

Once again, thank you for the kind words

Jules x


----------



## deblovescats

Thanks for the kind words Sally - can't believe it yet myself. Trying to take it one day at a time. Got my GP appointment tomorrow, so I think then it will seem more real. 
so sorry to hear your news jules - fingers and everything crossed that it's ok. Just to say - there are positive outcomes out there - got 2 colleagues who have had breast cancer - one is over 11 years past tx and the other was diagnosed this summer, caught early, had surgery, not needed further tx and is back at work fully functioning.
I really appreciate your support girls - and I do so pray that you all get the positive outcome that we all deserve. 
Deb
x


----------



## ajw

Hi Jules, I know exactly how you feel. I had the same diagnosis earlier this year so I really feel for you.

I was far more upset that it might mean the end of my ivf journey than about the prospect of having cancer. I knew if they had caught it so early the chances of recovery were excellent, whereas my dream of being a mum would be over. Please don't despair though. Take things one day at a time and try to stay positive. 

I, like you, had a zone of microcalcifications which looked suspect. They did the lovely stereotactic biopsy (big ouch!) and the results came back showing pre-cancerous cells. 

The next step was a lumpectomy to remove the whole zone of mcs. They thought they might find actual cancerous cells not discovered by the biopsy during the op, but when the results came back they had successfully removed all the calcification with a clear margin of cells around and none were cancerous, just pre-cancerous. No further treatment needed. Just 6 monthly mammos. Phew!!!

I just had my first check up mammo and no more calcifications. I've since been able to do an ivf cycle and am about to start another. 

I really things will work out the same for you. I'll be keeping everything crossed as I really understand how you're feeling. Let us know how it goes. 

Big hugs AJW


----------



## julesbfd

Thanks for your thoughts debslovescats

Ajw - it's nice to hear from someone in the same position, it's an anxious time.
I could not believe it today, my appt to get my results was tomorrow, I'm at the ivf clinic then was due to see cancer consultant.  The secretary rang to say that my results won't be back this week, I said I was told they would and need to know re drugs I am meant to be starting re ivf and whether I had to cancel, I wasn't happy and a nurse then rang me.
She said they could tell me nothing further and I would just have to decide about the ivf, I said I would have liked some guidance on it.
Lots of phone calls later and them contacting the labs in Leeds, they are saying they believe one of the areas is malignant but still concerned re the other.
They haven't been able to get an answer on it from the tests they have done so far and are having to try further tests.  She did say it may end up with me having to have a larger biopsy, I tell you what a day.

I've decided to carry on my ivf/fet journey until someone stops me,if they do, me like you that's what plays on my mind, the end of ivf where if it is cancer and is caught early and not spread from elsewhere, I will fight it but not ready to give up the fertility fight.

Sorry for my rambling a ladies,good to get it all out

Night all and take care, thanks for all your kind words xx


----------



## hopeful68

Jules - not entirely sure what to say as I don't think anything I can say will be of much reassurance given your situation. we are all here to sound off and although our joint are of experience is IVF I am sure we can offer some wise words in relation to your health to keep you strong, motivated and focused what ever the final version of your news is. will be thinking of you. such a crappy time for you with SO much to take in....


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi Girls

Just a quickie to say congrats to Debs - so happy for you chick xx

Jules big hug for you and lots of  

Good luck to Kirsty xx

Hello to the newbies xx

Hello to everyone else, hope you are all ok xx

AFM been staying off here to try and come to terms with infertility, was doing ok until Biopolar friend has just announced shes pregnant again - back to square one for me.  Have been keeping up but not posting much like some of the other ladies.  Much love to you all xx


----------



## fififi

Lesley - grrrrrrrr ... me gone off your friend even more!!!! Though to be honest the closeness in age sounds like a recipe for total chaos and no sleep for anyone    
So not fair that yet again an example of someone who's hardly bothered about kids getting the dream all too easily of what we are craving and bending over backwards to try and achieve.
Thinking of you hun and hope DP is able to support you with this new revelation    

julesbfd - sorry to see you got bad and incomplete news on Tuesday. Hopefully you can switch your head into a more positive place and achieve success with your FET now whilst awaiting further updates re the potential cancer. Wishing you success and no need to change plans       

deb - how exciting seeing GP tomorrow. Hope they are suitably happy for you - I still keep smiling every time I see your name as think it's such fab news & you are my "it can work" story that is keeping me semi sane    

Hugs to everyone else - must go as need to sleep!!!


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Jules big hug, it must be verying worrying, try and focus on your ivf journey whilist you don't have firm answers for anything else.
easy for me to say, but try and conserve you energy x take care x


----------



## deblovescats

hope you're doing ok jules - it must be so worrying, but I pray everything is ok.
Thanks for good wishes fiffi and lesley - your support means so much to me! I do pray all of you on here get your wishes in the New Year, you so deserve it, but I think all the problems we've had makes us strong women! Just be good to yourselves, chill out and enjoy eating whatever you want while you can! 
Lesley  - good to hear from you, I'm glad you're ok, and I'm amazed about your friend - why is it that we want comes so easily to some people who maybe don't deserve it, and good people don't get what they want! You do what you need to do.
AFM - I'm trying to keep positive, fingers crossed, everythings going well so far. I saw the GP yesterday who was lovely - she was delighted for me, especially as she said she is aware of stats for IVF and that it's good to see a positive outcome. She did a BP check and said it's normal, and that as I don't smoke or drink, there's no reason why pregnancy should not proceed normally, which really cheered me up, as you often hear such negative thoughts about us over 40s ladies, and according to the media, we're made to feel guilty for trying to have a child. She told me to make midwife appt - never thought I'd hear those words!! I've made one for 13th Dec, booking in appointment (still like to see the words) so after scan, when hopefully baby will be ok. I'm now trying to work out when to inform work - going to wait till at least after the scan, and may wait till after xmas to be on safe side. I've got my scan on 2nd so fingers crossed. The nausea has now kicked in big time and I'm not able to face food first thing in the morning, but I'm hoping this is a good sign.
I do so keep everything crossed for a positive 2014!
Deb
x


----------



## fififi

Deb - loving your post. So nice to read something written by someone so happy inside! Glad things all going as they should & will look forward to update after your scan on 2nd. Bet you're wishing the next few weeks away!


----------



## LellyLupin

Thanks Feefs/Debs,  to be honest she was meant to come over tonight but I have made an excuse, I just can't face her.  I was feeling pretty proud that I fake smiled through her last nine months, the birth, the Christening etc but I just haven't got the strength to do it again.  It has made me realise though that not telling DP how I really feel is doing me no good at all,  so I have wrote him a letter (haven't given it to him yet).  I need a baby and if its a donor baby then so be it, I was born to be a mother and I realise that hiding how I feel all the time is making me ill.  In my letter I have given DP an ultimatum, its a baby or we split I can't live an unfulfilled life.  Just trying to find the right moment to give him it, its pointless me trying to talk to him face to face I just end up in floods of tears  

Debs I am so pleased for you, I really admire you and am happy you have got your wish, I would never be jealous of you because I know how hard you worked to get this BFP,  and I know you will be a fantastic mum xx

Feefs I love how supportive you are you are a fab person do you know that       

Jule I hope you are ok and coping I am sending you lots of


----------



## fififi

Lesley - thanks for kind comments
It's a brave step you've taken in giving DH an ultimatum but I know you've not reached this point without spending months (years?) pondering the situation. Really hope he can accept your dreams and needs cos other than the baby issue you two seem pretty good together. So unfair how our lives are totally taken over by this need to become a mother and it causes us to experience pain / arguments in other areas of our lives too. 
I think it is asking the impossible for both partners to be in totally the same place regarding tx but if DH can support you and agree to treatment then that would be wonderful   

A friend/acquaintance who I've not seen in ages had baby 10 days ago. I ran into her today just as she needed to dash to loo with her older child so she asked me to just watch him for a minute and I jokingly said "ok, promise I won't steal him!" No sooner than she'd gone he started really crying so I picked him up & then as he stopped bawling, held tightly onto my finger & looked at me I found it all so unfair & seriously felt like just taking him home with me ! (Rubbish kidnap plan since friend knows where I live but hey?!!!?)
I'm definitely owed an amazing afterlife after the sh1t I've put up with in this one


----------



## LellyLupin

Feefs we get on so well other than this issue.  I am not well with blood pressure issues at the moment,  and I am pretty sure its the hiding my feelings and the pressure of it all that's contributing, the doctor can find no physical cause.  I truly hope DP can support me as I don't want to lose him, however I know I don't want to feel like this forever and its never going to go away. My consultant gave me a 40% with DE and I don't want to lose my chance.

Oh no on the friend with baby front!  I know how you feel,  every time I see my Goddaughter and bipolar friends baby I just want to steal them.  That must have been so very hard for you, life can be so sh*t at times.  Sending you a huge empathy hug   xxx


----------



## deblovescats

hi fiffi and lesley - you both chill girls. Lesley - you need to do what you have to do, never mind DH. Your blood pressure would be a lot less if you felt you had his support.
I do appreciate both your support.
AFM - had a bit of a panic on Sat - had a bit of blood when went to loo, fresh red, but no clots and not excessive, then a bit of pink spotting, nothing since. Took it easy yesterday, now at work, but having chilling day. Not sure if I need to ring anyone as it's settled. I'm still getting symptoms - nausea and actually being sick, so I'm hoping that s a good sign. On this journey, you can never relax, there's always something to worry about, but it'll be worth it in the end!
Deb


----------



## ajw

So happy for you Debs and can understand how it must be hard to relax. You must find it hard to believe that all is now going to plan! Your symptoms sound perfectly normal from what I've heard, so try to enjoy the experience. Crazy I guess, someone telling you to enjoy nausea, but I bet everyone on here would suffer the worst nausea ever to be in your position ;-) 

Lesley, I really hope you sort things out with DH. What a roller coaster. Have you talked to a therapist? My friend is seeing one to help her cope with facing her pregnant/mum friends. She was avoiding them, as it was too painful, but that in itself was making her sad. Our assistant at work told me she was pregnant last week. I work with all men, so thought I was safe, but no...

Jules I hope you've heard more from the lab now and that it's good news?

Afm I'm at day 7 of my final cycle (final OE cycle). Very little happening yet despite a humongous dose of Gonal. Massive headaches but nothing at the other end. Yoga tonight to chill after having the in-laws here for the weekend. Could really do with a big glass of red wine...

Ajw


----------



## Salad4

AJW - hope all goes well - I can't stand the injections and they went on forever when I did my last two cycles.
Debs - I hope everything is ok, but nausea has got to be a good sign!
Lesley - whatever you do I hope it goes well - you'll know what to do by what feels right (and good on you for making an excuse with your friend - I would have done exactly the same).
Fifii - luckily people don't normally ask me to look after their kids, so I don't tend to get that nightmare situation.
Jules - thinking of you.  I hope you get good news.
AFM - got an email from Duofertility telling me I hadn't ovulated this cycle, but now they've put a big orange line on the graph, which I thought was supposed to be ovulation.  Sigh - I'll never work this out.  I'll also have to ask my friend how her tests went soon, but don't want to nag her.  Then if I have to I'll move onto anonymous donor....
hope all is well with everyone.  Sallyx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hello ladies,

*Lesley*.. can't believe your bi-polar friend is pregnant again! Grrrhh, that's all you need. I wouldn't have the strength to plaster that smile on again either. Direct all your strength into DP hun. The letter is a good idea and an ultimatum is an incredibly brave thing to do. I take my hat off to you. I can totally understand why you need to do it. You won't be complete until you have your own baby in your arms. If he faces losing you then there is high chance he'll agree to DE. As you've said, you get on so well with everything else. I can't imagine for one second he will risk losing you. Wish you so much luck. You really deserve every happiness. Don't miss this chance Lesley.

*Fififi*.... hmmmm, kidnap plans always look good on the surface and then a spanner gets thrown in the works, such as your friend knowing where you live. Damn.  When are you starting your DE cycle? Have you chosen a clinic? Thought about going to Penny?

*Debs*..... Goodness, I'd panic too. Glad it's settled down now. Your body's way of telling you to slow down.

*ajw*.... Best of luck with your cycle. How are your follis looking on the scan?

*Sally*.... how are you getting on with the DuoFertility in general? Or is this your first month using it? How annoying you didn't ovulate though. Although we don't ovulate every month I suppose. Hopefully next month will be more productive.

*Hopeful/Michelle*.... how are you doing hun?

Welcome to the new ladies.....sorry you've had to join us....

*Chocochine*.... I really think that over 40's have a better chance of achieving a pregnancy with a mild/natural cycle. That way we aren't digging up the dregs of our remaining egg reserve and are just using the mature, better quality ones. Create are big on this idea... and during my phone consultation with Penny she strongly agreed. I think it's better to have lower amount of stims and get 3 or 4 good quality eggs than higher amount and 20 rubbish eggs!

*ArmyWife/Lisa*... sorry to hear about your BFN. If money and sanity are permitting then give it an other couple of goes before considering DE. Unfortunately two goes for the over 40's is usually not enough to end in success.

*AJ*..... miracles do happen. Don't give up.

*Jules*.... you've really been through the mill and I'm sorry to hear that. Must be so scary for you. I think I would do the same as you and carry on with your IVF journey until someone says otherwise. Don't let this potential scare stop you from achieving your dreams. You sound a strong and gutsy lady. Keep going honey.

*AFM*.... I've been pretty quiet with updates on the forum in the lead-up to my FET as it's been stressful to say the least. All sorts of rows with the clinic re possible cancellations and money. It does annoy me. They seem to all be getting so businesslike and losing the personal side of things? I really felt like a number and a 'tick-box' questionnaire for the past week. Why can't they treat us more like individuals and listen to what we have to say about our bodies? Anyway, Just had a call to say my one little embryo has survived the thaw. I was shaking with relief and emotion I can tell you! Transfer at 3:30 this afternoon. Wish me luck and send me baby dust please lovely ladies!!

xxx


----------



## ajw

Oh good luck Kirsty. Really hope this is the one!
I only have two small follies so far, but that's nothing new at this stage. In fact the dose of Gonal really doesn't seem to make any difference at all! 
Let's hope luck is on our side this time. Such a lottery, but someone has to win!
Ajw


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks *ajw*.... I hope you suddenly get a growth spurt of those follicles. Have you tried acupuncture? Drink lots of milk/water and add extra protein to your diet. It's meant to help.

xxx


----------



## Coolish

Good luck Kirsty!


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks *Jules*. By the way, can't remember if I posted it, but I tested positive for Ureaplasma and Hidden C ... DP and I just finished the course of antibiotics at the weekend. Hopefully my uterus will be in a more receptive state for the FET! If this doesn't work I've booked appt with Penny in late Jan. Fed up with my clinic and she sounded so positive and knowledgeable on the phone.

xxx


----------



## LellyLupin

Good Luck Kirsty !!!!!  xxx


----------



## Moominmum

Good Luck *Kirsty*!!


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - off out so just quick post
Hope that embie is now snuggled in tight and you will be posting joyous news in time for Xmas      

Ajw - hope those follies keep on growing & you too get pre Xmas joy


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks for all the good luck messages and baby dust lovely ladies!

The embryo  transfer went well and I am now officially PUPO (again!)... let's hope this time is different from the others.        

xxx


----------



## ajw

That's great Kirsty. Hope the 2ww passes quickly!

Had my 2nd scan this morning. 4 follies now, but still small so EC might be next Wednesday rather than Monday. That will be really cutting it fine, as I have to have ET before 8th Dec (my 43rd birthday and cut off date for treatment in France..). Grow follies, grow...!!!


----------



## deblovescats

Good luck kirsty - blowing baby dust your way!
AFM - I'm fine, just hanging on tenterhooks till scan on Monday. Had no further symptoms, and took a POAS on Mon - still BFP, so hoping the slight bleed was fine. Still getting symptoms and no cramps etc, so hopefully good sign.
Deb


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks ajw and debs!

*ajw*.... good news about the 4 follis! Are you just a slow-grower then? No pressure re the ET then! Goodness, that is tough.

*Debs*... great to hear the tests are still BFP. A little blood is fine I think. You hear it a lot on here. Scan on Monday.. woo hoo!

By the way... ladies/moderator ... are we ok posting this type of treatment info and updates on this thread? I'm a bit concerned it's not the right place? Should be on Current Cyclers perhaps. Any advice or comments appreciated. I won't be at all offended.

xx


----------



## hopeful68

Kirsty - did the bleed coincide with when AF would have been due? if so, normal hormonal bleed. some women bleed throughout the whole pregnancy so don't sweat it!!! 


Just a quick post, busy, tired, DH with man flu (say no more), studying for exams and doing an essay - keeping distracted!! Ollie - doggie - gets to be 16yrs old tomorrow, didn't expect that after the traumas 11 mths ago. camper van getting there, DH dinged the door so is cursing himself over it - at least it wasn't me!! we are off to London this sat for his family 'nonone died, lets get together for no reason' party. DH has planned for us to sleep in the van overnight. will be taking thermals and a hat to sleep in!!

will post better later, lemsip to make!!

M


----------



## fififi

Woohoo Kirsty - very pleased to hear you're now PUPO. Will be crossing fingers & toes that this embie is THE one       

Ajw - hang on in there ... Will send lots of wishes for speedy growth your way    

Debs - glad poas still positive. Being pg is such a scary time, especially having travelled so far to get there. I do feel that anyone needing tx to get pg should be given a few bonus months to start them off. I think that we should automatically be at 20 weeks after the 2ww not just 6 - would save a lot of worrying!
Bleed sounds pretty normal like others have said and sure midwife would see you if concerned. Looking forward to hearing your scan news about how wriggly your LO is on Monday    

Ps. Kirsty
in my opinion I think people posting what's currently happening with them is appropriate for this thread. The majority of us have known each other a long time & the thread was started when several of us got a BFN last Oct/Nov. To see what others of similar age & tx experience are doing now is helpful. News of a pregnancy uplifting and brings hope.
It's less of an every day thread so should I be so lucky as to get as far as 2ww again I'd probably join over 40s current cycles thread too just to natter about all those constant worries. But no reason why you wouldn't post here every few days too, especially if needing support from people who know your history so to speak.


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Hopeful*... think you've got me confused with Debs... she's the properly pregnant one! I'm only PUPO.

*Fififi*... I really appreciate your advice/opinion. Thank you. Yes, a lot of us have known each other for over a year now, so it's nice to be able to share news with the ladies that know what I've been through to get to this stage. I was just worried about upsetting anyone as it's meant to predominantly be a thread for support after BFNs and we shouldn't lose sight of that. I'll keep any updates to a minimum. Although, not much to report! Just in 2WW limbo land!

*ajw*.... hope all is going well! I think you are on the Current Cyclers thread as well right? It probably makes more sense during stimming.

xxx


----------



## deblovescats

thanks for support girls.
So praying for you kirsty to get a good outcome. I agree with what you said. I think this thread is great for support and we've all been around on here for some time so I appreciate popping in and out to update, but I obviously don't want to upset anyone either, so will keep you all up to date without going overboard on pregnancy news! 
Got a busy day at work today but staying in office = got kids developmental reviews all afternoon! 
AFM - I'm hanging in there. Will update you all on Mon after scan,
Deb


----------



## hopeful68

Kirsty - sorry - rushing to post, got muddled!! hopefully it will apply to you soon though!!   and do keep posting here.... M


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## artist_mum

a real quickie

*kirsty* wishing you loads and loads of luck and here is your baby dust as requested!  

*debs* so pleased you are where you are.. fingers crossed for you for monday. Here is some baby dust for you too  

*jules* just thinking of you and hoping all comes good.. very best wishes - some for you too for when you get there  

hi to everyone else
Love to all xxx


----------



## MJ1

Good luck with Monday *Debs*

*AJW*, keep calm, I was a slow grower through all 4 cycles...

*Kirsty*, well done hun!      

MJ xx


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi Girls  

To those of you PUPO and pregnant , please don't leave us, we are all in this together so we are all happy to share in your good news xx

Kirsty best of luck, hope this little one is the one you deserve a little baby to love xx  I haven't actually given DP the letter yet everything keeps getting in the way, he has just been offered a fantastic job that he is not sure he can do,  so his head is in a whirl, not the best time to throw this letter into the mix I think.  I am going to give it to him in a couple of days,  but I am going to change the wording to tell him how I feel and how I am struggling,  without the ultimatum in it.  I am going to ask him to come to counselling with me so I can sort my head out,  and he can see what all this is doing to me.  I don't for a minute think he will want to split up and I don't either,  but its not healthy for me to have to keep quiet all the time for fear of upsetting him, I truly believe its why my blood pressure is so high.  

Debs glad everything is ok with you.  Can I ask you a question that I hope won't upset you,  but the curiosity is killing me?  Does this baby feel like part of you?  I mean does this feel like your baby?  Sorry if that sounds a strange question but I am wondering how I would feel with a DE, no offence meant.  Also how do you feel emotionally - listen to me -  heres you saying you don't want to upset us by going on about your pregnancy and I am swinging the light above your head asking for details   xx

ajw how are you follies getting on?  Its all very exciting isn't it xx

Hopeful  thanks for the pm. Glad to hear Ollie is still motoring along.  My pup is coming up 16 too, at the moment she is worrying me as shes not eating a lot and I think she is getting doggie altzeimers.  She wanders around at night a lot and a couple of times shes wet herself, I've got her some doggy nappies and some calming drops to help with her night time wanderings.  She had us up 7 times in one night going for a wee    Aw nice of your family to have a 'no reaso' party, that's so cool,  I think you should take your long johns and a duvet as well as a sleeping bag for the night in the van  

Hello Roxy, feefs, Jules and everyone else xx


----------



## deblovescats

Thanks guys for the good wishes! I hope your DP can understand where you're coming from Lesley - and that he agrees to go for counselling. 
Hope you're coping with the 2WW kirsty.
AFM - I had a bit of a scare again on Sat eve - slight bleed but it stopped overnight and just lightly stained a pad (I know TMI) I rang NHS Direct on Sun and the doctor made me an appt at local EPAU this morning. So I cancelled my appt at CARE as didn't fancy travelling to Sheffield if a problem. I need to rebook it with them. The staff at EPAU were lovely (I was worried someone would have issue with my age! Paranoid I know) but no worries. I had a scan - amazing -first one ever. They did have a problem working out gestational age as IVF! The doctor reassured me everything was fine and as it should be - foetal pole, yolk sac and heartbeat! Amazing to see it for the first time! She thought the blood was from a collection of blood where embryo implanted which has now come away. She said this often happens and is not cause for concern. So keeping fingers crossed! Everything has now settled and took it easy yesterday.
Lesley - I don't mind your questions at all - we're all here to support each other and I think we know each other well enough to ask! I did have a period of wondering how I'd feel and almost felt I had a little alien inside! However, this did not last. I felt that I needed to give it my best shot however this was achieved and obviously spending so much money, DE gave me a better chance, also less risk of congenital abnormalities/conditions etc with a younger egg. I told myself that I am the one nurturing the little one and that it's growing inside me. I think it is natural to wonder about it and I sometimes wonder how I'll feel when there's no resemblance to family members, but I'll deal with that hurdle when it comes. Also, having read the pen portrait of the donor, I was moved and touched and she seems like a lovely person, as her pen portrait was so sensitively and well written. I'm a bit scared sometimes of doing it by myself but I know I'd have regretted it if I hadn't. I know I've got family support so that makes me feel better. I never thought I'd be in this position, but now wondering how to break the news at work, not told my manager yet - I'm waiting till after Christmas so it's more certain. For work Christmas dinner  - had to go for soup instead of the prawn cocktail I like, but it's a sacrifice worth making!
Good luck to everyone in their journeys.
Deb


----------



## fififi

Deb - what a relief it must be that scan was all ok. It doesn't matter how many posts you see saying a bit of bleed is quite normal in early pregnancy when you yourself see blood it automatically sends brain into overdrive. Your cargo is extra precious so any possible hiccup will be that bit more worrying.
So pleased you got good news and all is progressing as it should    

Have you managed to make friends with anyone else in similar position to yourself? I've been lucky & "met" a lady who is very similar to me in life experiences so far, close in age & due to both of us having had our cycles delayed/cancelled will most likely be cycling at similar time to me. It's a big help having someone to "chat" to when niggles come into my head. Plus, at this stage I'm still not convinced we will tell anyone we're having DE IVF so am having to keep information quiet with people I know - being able to tell someone about my donor is good and keeps my head from exploding!!!
I've said before I think you're very brave going through treatment alone. But having coped with that you are going to sail through pregnancy and go on to be the sort of mum that all kids would hope for.  Having a supportive family is going to help but fact you've sacrificed so much to get where you are now shows that you are 100% doing right thing.
I bet you're itching to tell work ... I used to love nipping to the toilet when I was pg and hadn't told just to have a secret tummy rub and smiling session!!!!

Kirsty - how's the 2ww going? Hope you've found lots to keep your brain occupied. Have you been on one of your baking quests yet? Thinking of you & so hoping you get good news this time    

AJW - how are you getting on? Have those follies started growing big yet? Am crossing fingers & toes whenever possible that you get to EC before the 8th     

Hopeful - hope weekend went well & you still have all fingers & toes after sleeping in cold camper van!!!! 

Lesley - more hugs for you    
Hope you can speak to DP soon and get this huge weight of your mind. Not being able to switch the "I want a baby" button off causes so many problems and really does intrude in every aspect of our lives. Every time I feel I'm coping ok then bam someone else announces a pregnancy, or a character on TV has a baby, or I get stuck in lift with cutest baby ever ... There's no escaping and I totally believe that unless you yourself know you have tried all possible avenues then the ability to suppress those baby desires is zero. Even when in a place where you know you've done all you can I can imagine it will be extremely hard to switch off but whiles there's an "if only" still hanging around you will just keep coming back to it.

AFM - thankfully last cycle was nearly back to normal length so I'm hoping my hormonal issues were just a blip. The second donor match was supposed to cycle at the start of this month but changed her mind. Thankfully she's not pulled out altogether but just wants to wait until Jan. I'm now wishing for Christmas miracle but if that doesn't happen most likely to cycle end Jan.

Hugs to all I've missed


----------



## LellyLupin

Hello Girls,

Glad you are Ok Debs, thanks for answering my questions.  I think you are very brave going it alone and I also think you have done the right thing, you were born to be a Mum and now you shall be and what a lucky baby you are going to have!  

Fifi what a day I have had, I found out my bipolar friend is 3.5 months pregnant, so much for her saying last time that she was dying to tell me, shes managed to wait a long time again.   Then  went shopping to be confronted by a hugely pregnant woman and then a woman carrying a newborn, sick of Christmas 'family' ads and the girls at work talking about how excited their kids are.  JUST SHUT UP!!!!!!  There I said it  
Glad to hear that you have met someone in the same situation as you and it is helping you a lot.  I take it you are still struggling with the donor part?  I think I would be the same although as Deb said it goes away,  and as you will be growing this little seed all by yourselfI  am sure it pales into insignificance.  Debs will have to keep us posted on how she feels.  I still haven't had a full conversation with DP as he is still mulling over this job offer and hasn't really slept all weekend.  Gonna have to speak up soon before I explode!

Kirsty how are you getting on?

awj any news with you?

Hello to everyone else xx


----------



## fififi

Lesley - sorry to see you're currently being bombarded by pg ladies and babies/kids          
It seems to me that the more down about stuff I feel the more pg ladies appear!!!! I've become an amazing actress and am hoping eventually my own brain will start believing my oscar deserving performances!!!

My acceptance of DE still has good days & bad days. I was all happy and set to go having spent time working through my concerns. Unfortunately being pulled out of the cycle in September & assigned a different donor caused me too much new thinking time and then crazy things started popping into my head! My second match is physically not really a representation of me on paper. Everything is close and within the parameters we said we were happy with. But, realistically I'd never find a match if waited for the donor I'd ideally like cos realistically she'd be my long lost twin!!! Funnily enough I've picked the donor that you said you'd go for - matches are close, however she's a bit taller, bit lighter and has fairer hair ... all attributes I wish I had   I figured I may as well provide any potential child with the best options on physical appearance if they were available! New donor hasn't written pen portrait or letter for any potential child either, unlike my first donor match - I have days where see this as a good thing (shows lack of potential desire to get deeply involved in child's life at a later date should my child choose to contact her) and days when this fact saddens me (nothing to pass on to any potential child about their genetic history)
I think whilst still in the waiting part of things your head just whizzes off random paths. I've been in touch with a number of ladies now who've had DE and/or full embryo transfer and they've all forgotten those pre-baby concerns once on their way. Plus the reading on epigenitics boosts me as should I get lucky enough then any baby produced will be heavily influenced by me and which aspects of its genes my body turns on.
Just so want to get to the next stage and know if my life is going to match my hopes or whether I need to start figuring out a new life-plan.


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks for asking after me ladies... I'm going into the demented stage of the 2WW now! Analysing and panicking over every little twinge thinking AF is on her way.

Had stomach cramps, backache and sore boobs for a few days now... which I always get before my period. So I'm already thinking it hasn't worked. You start off this process with so much positivity and hope... and slowly, day-by-day, it gets knocked out of you.

Today I'm 7dt 5dt... so 12dpo. I could do a test, but too scared of another BFN. I think by Thursday the result should be conclusive, if I haven't started bleeding by then. OTD for blood test is Friday and HPT is Sunday. Quite late. Tempted to POAS Friday.... arrgghhh... can't decide!

*Lesley*.... there is no getting away from it sometimes is there? Why can't some of the family ads be a nice couple rather than always having kids in them? I mean, I consider me a DP to be a family... even though we don't have kids together. It's like we don't count at Christmas! Good luck with your chat with DP.

*Fififi*.... there is so much to think about with DE... and you are right, the longer you have to think about it the more confusing it becomes! There will always be pros and cons, plus different trains of thought with every avenue. Sometimes thinking too deeply is not always a good thing. Easier said than done! I think your new donor sounds great. There is always that chance you find your doppelganger and baby ends up looking like hubby anyway! So what's the point!? A close resemblance is perfect I'd say. Glad your hormones are sorted and roll on Jan!

*Debs*... great news about your scan and that everything is in its right place. I just can't imagine what that will be like seeing and hearing a heartbeat. The most amazing thing ever.

Hello to everyone else reading.

xxx


----------



## ajw

Good luck Kirsty. Hope you don't go too crazy this week! Got everything crossed for you.     Pleased to hear that you share my view that two people can be a family. I'm lucky to work with guys, so they don't really talk about their kids so much. Feeling for you Lesley!

Fab news Debs! How exciting to have a scan. You must have been ecstatic to see that little heartbeat! What a relief. You'll have to stop scaring us like that you know. My heart stops every time I read one of your posts!   

Fifi, thanks for sharing your feelings on DE. We're considering going down that path if this cycle doesn't work, so it's really interesting to hear the different emotions you go through. Hope all slots into place for your cycle in Jan. Where are you doing it? I'm sure you've said but I've forgotten. We are thinking of Barcelona. 

Afm I had a bit of a panic yesterday. Doc still didn't give me Luveris, so my eggs are all at different stages. Had a scan and I have 3 big ones and the rest are immature. The clinic called and told me to continue stimming and come for another scan on Wednesday! (Day 16 of cycle!)
They said I'd have EC on Friday and ET Monday, but I'll be 43 on Sunday and had been told that the transfer has to be done before your 43rd birthday! I told the secretary and she said -oh, we have a problem... 
Anyway, doc finally called back and said it's ok as long as I have EC before my birthday - phew!!

I'm now scared though, as the doc who did the scan said he thought they'd tell me to trigger yesterday, as if we wait for the small ones to grow, the big ones will have disappeared. Trying to think positive. 

Ajw


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## Sushi Lover

*AJW*.....wow, talk about time being of the essence. Thank goodness you'll have your EC before your 43rd birthday then. Too close for comfort really! Usually you are taking some medication to stop you from ovulating (cetrotide for example)... so the big ones won't disappear. Good luck!

xx


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## ajw

Yes, I'm taking Cetrotide. Hope it does the trick! Will let you know. 
Ajw x


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## deblovescats

hi everyone
thanks for good wishes kirsty, fiffi, ajw, Lesley - sorry to scare everyone! I rang the clinic and they've said I don't need to go through for a scan as I've had one and it would establish the same so I don't need to travel to Sheffield! They're going to send me a prescription and a protocol for more meds (don't know what I'll do when I don't have to do the pessaries any more- got quite a little routine going!) Chance to lie down for 20 mins! The protocol is to continue for a couple of weeks and then to reduce downwards. They're now going to discharge me to care of GP - never thought I'd hear that! Got a first appointment with midwife on 13th - evidently the longest appt, the booking in. My problem is that working in Health visiting, I know the routine and the midwife sends a booking form to Health Visiting Team so they can record it in their ante natal file. Obviously I know the HV team I'll come under (though I don't work in that team) so they'll probably find out before I've let anyone know! There' my dilemma, but I suppose a good dilemma! The admin girl who works in that team is notoriously indiscreet and gobby, so I'd rather she didn't find out all the details about me and the tx! So I'm thinking of asking if she can be kept from the info. I just wanted to wait to tell my team and team leader till I know everythings going well.
I'm also going to have to make a fuss of my little furr babies - especially Timmy, the softie who loves his cuddles. They've kept me sane during my journey so I have to make sure they cope ok. 
Fiffi - through DC Network, I've managed to get in touch with a group of single ladies who've either got babies or are going through tx, who are all northern based, including one in Harrogate and Scarborough, so we're planning to meet up We've been emailing so it's good to get support from those who've been there.
Deb


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## LellyLupin

Sorry to post and run,  but does anyone know of any clinics in the UK where you can get donor sperm for home insemination?


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## Sushi Lover

Another BFN for me at the weekend.  I just can't stop crying at the moment and feel utterly defeated.  I'm just wondering how much more of this I can take.  It just gets worse.

xxx


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## fififi

Kirsty     
So sorry to see it's another BFN - not, not, not fair.
Thinking of you and sending big, big hugs - I've tears just thinking about how you're feeling right now so can't imagine how sad you are.

One day we will all get the happiness back into our lives - just so hard to comprehend why when we try so hard that we aren't able to achieve a BFP that seems to be easy for so many who don't even care.
Now is time to allow yourself to be sad & you've had several cycles quite close so I'm not surprised you feel run down by it all. Physically & mentally you've been through a lot and need time to recover.


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## Sushi Lover

Thanks* Fififi*,

I just feel like everything's against me and don't know what I've done to deserve all these BFNs! This has been a horrible year for me.

I appreciate your hugs and kind words. I know, through experience, I'll start to feel better again as the week goes on xx


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## deblovescats

hi everyone
kirsty - I'm so, so sorry - you don't deserve this bad luck! You will so make a great mum one day. Like fiffi says, you've had cycles close together and you need time to recover and grieve, and decide how to take it forward. Enjoy those foods you were avoiding. I was so praying it was your time - but it will be. I feel guilty when I know all you guys out there so deserve a BFP. I think it's when you don't get answers, I don't know why the tx failed last year then suddenly it worked this cycle but I'm so grateful.
AFM - feeling ok, taking it a day at a time - got my booking appt with midwife on Friday.
Overworked at work - loads of computer inputting of visits etc. Got our team xmas lunch on Thursday.
Deb


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## Sushi Lover

The problem is I don't have time on my side using my own eggs... that's why I've squeezed so many cycles into the past few years. It's a catch-22 situation really....trying to find a happy medium between further deterioration of egg quality and feeling well physically and mentally. To be honest, I thought a cycle in Jan/Feb, then another in June and FET in Dec was quite spaced out really. But it's all relative.... close together for some, but not so much for others. Just whatever feels 'do-able' at the time I suppose.

Appt at Serum booked end of Jan for a consultation with Penny. Someone has to work their magic on me eventually and maybe she's the lady to do it.

*Debs*... thanks for your kind words.

xxx


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## fififi

Kirsty - don't think cycles were especially close (I've done similar in past) but right now after number three you are bound to be feeling extra defeated and it'll take a little longer mentally to feel positive again.

Glad you have a plan for Jan - new clinic with a different take will hopefully be all you need     


Debs - hope Friday is as exciting as it should be ... Finally, you get to join the official ranks of pg. ladies   

Lesley - no knowledge of clinics with donor sperm options for home use. (Try FF donor sperm forum)

AFM - limbo land still .... Hoping that will get to cycle in Jan (DE) and it will be joyous news at end. (My DD has asked Santa for magic set & when we saw him on Fri nearly broke my heart when she told him she wanted it so she could use the wand to magic a baby in her mummy's tummy. Had tried to not talk about things at home but it obviously is still high in her wish list too. Just hoping real Santa heard & helps make both our wishes come true    )


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## LellyLupin

Kirsty what can I say to make you feel better?  Nothing I know except to say that all of us understand how you feel and all of us are sending you our love    At least you have a plan to see Penny and from what I hear that lady is a miracle worker, I am sure she can help you.  In the meantime I am sending you some       and huge       

Debs have you told everyone at work yet?  If so how did it go?  Glad you are doing so well xx

Hi Feefs x

AFM I had the chat with DP!  Well it didn't happen as I planned and it didn't go as well as I planned.  We are still at polar opposites and I gave him the option to split up if he wasn't on board.  He has agreed to counselling after xmas and has said if I wanted to try home insemination with donor sperm he would support me (yes I know the chances are remote) .  I am considering it as I just need to be doing something, and you never know.  I must admit for a minute I thought we were going our separate ways and it did shake me that we are maybe not as solid as we once were, I never used to doubt us for a second we were so close.  Still I can't go on as I am and I realise that now, keeping quiet and bottling it all up was doing me no good at all.  How did we end up in this sh*tty situation we used to be so happy until my clock starting ticking?


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## artist_mum

*kirsty* So very sorry to read your news. A big  for you. It's so tough. Regarding Serum&#8230; I know you've read all this before, but Penny really does give it the personal touch. I hope she finds your issue and you get sorted quickly. i know it is hard re: OE but you are still young enough, I bet you are. I bet you can still do it in time xx

*lesley* glad you are having the talks with DP even if not always going as smooth as you would like! But it's great you are going to do something by the sounds of it.. best of luck xx

*fififi* Aw.. that's cute with the magic wand! Hope you get the mother of all New Year's presents (excuse the pun ) xx

*debs* excited for you, hope all continues well and you have a lovely christmas with baby on board  xx

*ajw* wishing you loads of luck with EC xx

AFM I don't come on here too much at the mo, but good to catch up with your news although gutted for Kirsty. We are going out to Serum in January for donor discussion and sperm tests and quick check up for me after the hysto.

Hi to everyone else reading

Roxy xx


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## Sushi Lover

Thanks ladies... appreciate all the lovely comments and hugs.

I'll write some personals when I'm feeling a bit better if that's ok.  Still in the doldrums today, plus a stinking cold and now a horrendous nose-bleed at work.  It never rains, but it pours.  

xxx


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## Moominmum

Just a quick one to *Kirsty* - I do not know what to say that will help. But I am thinking of you and give you loads of virtual


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## Ipomée

Dear Kirsty, 
I'm so sorry to hear your news. Count your blessings, you certainly have many things on your side and you still have time. Keep positive re-connect yourself and receive all of the wonderful support from those who believe in you, it will help you heal and be ready for your next chance     ! 
Ipomée


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - still thinking of you & sending few exta hugs for the weekend


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## LellyLupin

Hello girls  

Kirsty hope you are doing a bit better now  xx

Hi Feefs  

Hi Roxy so nice to see you on here, hope Serum goes well for you in January xx

Hi Impomee  just been reading your history with interest, I have just been referred to the Endocrinology clinic to have my thyroid checked and saw some thing about thyroid on your history.  Having read up a little on the subject it can have an effect on fertility.  As I was just going to try donor sperm I asked my doctor about changing my blood pressure pills,  and shes asked me to wait before doing anything until I have been checked out, she said I wouldn't want you to waste your money if you have a hormone problem.  I would have thought that we would all have been tested for hormone problems having been through ivf, did your clinics say anything about your thyroid possibly being a factor? xx.


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Hi Ladies
I am going to my clinic to pick up my notes tomorrow so i could get a 2nd opinion from another clinic and i have asked to speak to someone ( probably only one of the nurses). I like my clinic but i am worried that i need and age specific/experienced clinic but this is more  due to the lack of stats. what i wanted to ask them was other than age were my amh and fh levels ok? Is there any other tests they would suggest my having before my next cycle even at another clinic before my thirds and probably final cycle due to finace. I was also going to ask about blood test monitoring during stimms because my clinic just do follicle scans.  is there any other questions i should ask. my consultant had suggested increasing drugs for third final cycle?


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## fififi

Chocochine - not sure what drugs consultant wanted to increase but you've already got excellent amount of eggs & that's usually where you'd be expected to need a boost.
Think your questions look about right. Though from your profile it doesn't seem that the stims part is the issue. Plus, although you sadly lost your LO getting pg on second cycle is pretty good - especially since over 40's chances are expected to be between 5 & 30%. I'd perhaps question whether any immune testing might be of benefit but in the main there's little it seems you personally need to do differently. Just seek out clinic with good fertilisation and/or blast transfer figures.


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## CHOCOCHINE

Thanks for the reply fififi. My consultant wants to increase from 300 menopur the last 2 cycles to 450 menopur.  I am worried about quality as you say I had good numbers. I know I just need the right egg and I am clutching at straws to know what to do. I will ask about immunes I dont want to waste another cycle if something us wrong.


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## mamochka

Ladies hi,

Just wanted to jump on the last bit of discussion about quantity vs. quality. You can read from my signature produces quite high amount of eggies my last/first cycle and plus i had a mild-to-moderate OHSS with estradiol being at 13000 at EC time. We put 3 blasts back in and i had a chemical while FET gave me a pregnancy which resulted in the MMC. So i am planning my talk at the follow up appointment on the 30th and i am going to request to decrease my 300mg of merional/forstimon to 150mg. I dont want 3 days of coasting when eggs are not developing. I want to produce 10-12 eggs with minimal immaturity. DH is working on his sperm - taking cocktails of vits. And we plan to freeze all and do FETs after - that is provided i respond correspondingly. So this is my plan.

Chocochine is you are a high responder like me the increasing of the dosages will only escalates the quantity vs. quality issue. I would defo recommend immunes as we had intralipids this time and got a BFP.


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## CHOCOCHINE

Mamochka thanks for replying so sorry for your loss x yes I am looking at other clinics probably lister or create or argc would love to go to serum but parents want me to stay in uk. Alk other clinics involve travel x but I am worried about more drugs


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## mamochka

Chocochine - if you have any questions about ARGC just let me know!


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## CHOCOCHINE

thanks mamochka how is argc?
i collected my notes and spoke with a nurse, she suggested two things want to try pregd on the eggs and possible immunes but not bothering with test for it as more expensive. My clinic would do immunes but don't have pregd? ( can't spell) I asked about blood testing through cycle and she said it wasn't all ways necassary if it was they would do it as standard. They do have embryo donation if i wanted to move on but i feel i need to try one more time with my own eggs.
what do you think?
my amh is 12.2, my fsh is 7.6, lh 2.1, prolactin 226 but this was sept 12, so over a year ago. i have76.6 hep b bordline faint?
If i went for immunes trt and preed how much extra to a cycle?
where do you recommend?


----------



## mamochka

well Chochochine in ARGC you will get all that: PGD on the embryos, immunes (i am not sure if they do empirical) and blood/scan monitoring through stimulation - obviously it can end up top price but when you get a BFP you completely forget about the money)))


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Thanks mamochka when will you cycle again?


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## mamochka

i am thinking end of Feb/March before my visa expires and freeze all. if they talk me out of freezing than April after i come back. Do you want to be cycle buddies?)))


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## CHOCOCHINE

Great idea


----------



## Altai

HI Ladies,


Mamochka, I am having a consultation with ARGC in Jan. Do you know if they accept tests from other clinics? Well, even from other countries.

I am planning to do thrombophilia screening in Moscow while there on Xmas. Trying to keep costs down as much as can. Lister said they'd accept those.
My immunes testing done in Lister. Hope this should not be a problem for ARGC (if I potentially go with them). Though their price tag does scares me.  

Am really getting stressed trying to find out where to go next.


----------



## mamochka

Altai hi!

I brought a lot of russian tests to ARGC (they were in english though). InVitro Lab in moscow have a translation service. Are you Russian then as I am? Would be nice to have a russian cycle buddy! Do not hesitate to PM me with any questions


----------



## Altai

Thanks mamochka. Will pm u as have more questions.

Also, going to see Penny in January shortly after 20th. 

Ladies, if anybody is going to be there around this date and would  want to meet for a 
coffee/lunch, would be great. 
KR,

Altai


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## mamochka

Altai,

I might join you for Serum Athens trip. But i need to be back in London by 28 to fly to Moscow.


----------



## Altai

That would be great. 
But Penny just e-mailed and said that apart from aquascan, I might need to do a hysteroscopy depending on aquascan. 

I am already doing an HSG on 3 January. So,  am bit concerned whether it's too much to have everything done in one month- HSG, aqua and hysteroscopy? 
Does anybody know? 

Thanks


----------



## Altai

Also, does anybody know why they do HSG only between days 5-10 of your cycle?

Is it to be sure that am not pregnant? Then fat chance...


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## CHOCOCHINE

ALTAI I am interested ins erum too but my parents are funding this cycle and prefer me to use the uk. I am going to have consultation with penny over phone. I wish i was going to serum with you!I want to try with own eggs do you think you will use serum for all treatment or lister or argc?


----------



## Altai

Hi cocochine- from the financial point of view (am funding cycles myself), I'd prefer to go to serum. I could do 3 cycles in serum or 2 in lister or 1 in Argc for the same amount more or less. I want to try with oe for as many times as could afford (both financially &physiologically).
It does worry me to do it on my own in another country. But I think if I get an ivf insurance, then at least some risks would be covered. 

Once I have my immunes done and consultations with lister & Argc, am off to serum to get penny'  ivf plan for me.
I don't feel that I need that intensive testing as Argc does. 

At least if you go to serum, they might pick up something which has never come up in the uk. 

Best of luck to all


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

i was going to pay for initial consulatation and probably tests with lister and try and talk my parents into serum by showing them information i have from penny and katie who have been helpful, what tests are you doing in uk?


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## Altai

Lister only wanted me to have nk killer cells and th1:th2 cytokines done with them.  The dr said there r only 3 labs which do those tests properly- 2 in the us and one in the uk. the rest I am doing in Moscow. 

A word re initial consultation  for ladies of our age  - from my personal experience. Most of the time was spent on explaining bad statistics for older women.  When i tried to ask whether I should check immunes etc,  the dr steered cons back to poor statistics.
at the follow up with dif dr I told that  I don't want to hear anything about my age, and I came with a list of q. & immune tests I 'd thought I might help. The dr was very helpful and talked me through each of my q. 
Overall, am happy with Lister and current dr. But they r pricey. ...


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Oh thats not helpful we know the stats. I see u went to create first I wanted to do mild ivf but my dr thinks I should do maxiumum stimms, so I wanted a second opinion. Also was prepared to just pay for immunes. What are the nk and cytokines treatment and what is involved which lab in uk does them properly. It all sounds so expensive


----------



## Altai

I probed the idea of mild ivf with Lister, they said there is little point for me in doing it. 
Re tests -they said they send it to heliers. But I don't know whether it is the hospital or independent lab with the same name.
Will know results after NY when go for the next cons. Yea, so expensive....


----------



## hopeful68

Just a quickie to wish everyone on this thread a happy Christmas and I really hope your Christmas wishes come true in 2014.


----------



## fififi

In Xmas chaos my end as had all kinds of dramas occur recently leaving me very un ready. Can't believe haven't even finished gift buying so will have to shop tomorrow - oops!

No time to write proper message but want to wish you all a happy christmas and an even happier 2014. May it be the FF baby boom year


----------



## Coolish

Altai - good luck with your Serum visit. Serum and Penny really are the best! I can certainly say they are after my history before going out there...

hi to everyone else on here - I hope 2014 is your year - this time last year I was still getting over my 5th failed attempt xx

I am now able to announce something that I never thought I would be able to... my little girl was born by c section on Friday 20th December, weighing in at 7lb 2oz. She's called Isabella Sylvie Laurel and is unbelievably cute. Yes, another Serum baby and I'm 49 

Hope you don't mind me posting this but I feel like I spent quite a bit of time on this thread...


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## MJ1

Cooljules, you give us all hope and well done you, fantastic news, thanks for posting and enjoy your little girl.
MJ xxx


----------



## Salad4

What a lovely Christmas present Cooljules.  Many congratulations!
Sallyx


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## Moominmum

Congratulations *Cooljules* - brilliant news!


----------



## fififi

Cool joules - how fab ... What an amazing Xmas you must be having


AFM - very unhappy & confused as supposed to start down reg on 5 Jan ready for DE cycle but my body gone nuts again and on Boxing Day got a bleed just 11 days after last AF. Worried that my body is hormonal lay very messed up but also no idea what this will mean for my cycle & can't speak with my clinic until 3 Jan.
Any spare wishes for a happy outcome very welcome.


Hope everyone else had/having better Xmas than mine


----------



## artist_mum

*cooljules* Many congratulations, what an amazing story - with a great outcome. Well done on your perseverance, I'm so glad you got there  Wishing you lots of luck with all the next bits to come and much happiness with your little girl x

*fifi* Sorry to hear it's been a bit all over the place. I had a similar odd cycle just when i didn't need it and I know it is disconcerting. Especially when the clinics aren't open to help you out with advice. I guess you can't do too much, but maybe try to trust that it is putting things in the right time frame, which may not be the one you thought.. but may end up being the 'right' time. I hope so. Wishing you loads of luck with this cycle. And a very happy 2014 to come.

Hello and belated happy christmas, early Happy New Year to all you guys on here, moominmum, lesley, kirstylovessuchi, mj1, AJ, sally, cooljules, fififi, hopeful and the new lot that i know a bit less well, but best wishes to you all. Wishing you all



AFM Have had the stepchildren here for christmas, a friend had her baby yesterday - both things make me happy, and also gives me that desperate sadness inside, and I feel quite lost really. CoolJules, you are an inspiration - but i am struggling I will admit. We are off to Serum mid January and hoping to cycle after that. It feels like a mountain to climb and I'm afraid. That said, the kids are leaving tonight, we will have some time to ourselves and I start a job working with children in the New Year, so we'll see, perhaps 2014 will work out ok in the end.

Love to all
xxx


----------



## deblovescats

massive congrats jules - so happy on the safe arrival of baby Isabella (lovely name by the way!) So happy for you. You deserve it so much. You inspired me so much. I bet you're so happy. 
Good luck artist with your cycle.
Fiffi - don't despair - when I had my last cycle with DE, I was down regging but ended up with a slight bleed at one point - I rang the clinic and the nurse said this can sometimes happen, it occurs because with down regging you are really down on the oestrogen and she advised me to take one climaval(oestrogen) tablet before I was ready to do, to give a little boost of oestrogen. So when you can, speak to your clinic and I'm sure they can sort it. This obviously worked for me! I wish you all the luck for your cycle - positive things can happen.
AFM - sent an email to my manager on Christmas Eve day to let her know the news as I couldn't get hold of her, and asked for a meeting to discuss everything. I took a delight in thinking of her shock (bad I know) as I'm sure she thought this would never happen for me - I'm the one always available! It finally feels real. I'm just taking it a day at a time. Now 11 w +3 so heading towards 12 weeks (I feel this is one hurdle) Then got my scan on 8th Jan - can't wait - feel like I need a bit of reassurance. 
I hope everyone has a Happy New Year and all their dreams come true - you ladies so deserve it, you're all amazing and will make wonderful mums, just hold on to that thought.
Deb


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

congratulations cool jules abd debslovescas x


----------



## artist_mum

hey *debs* i forgot your name on my post, lovely to hear you are getting on so well and good luck with the scan. Happy New Year! x


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Oh thats not helpful we know the stats. I see u went to create first I wanted to do mild ivf but my dr thinks I should do maxiumum stimms, so I wanted a second opinion. Also was prepared to just pay for immunes. What are the nk and cytokines treatment and what is involved which lab in uk does them properly. It all sounds so expensive


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Sorry ladies that was an old post welcome mrs rock x


----------



## oldermum

Hi all.
I'm recently returned to Aus from serum and having a m/c at 6 weeks
Had three perfect 5 day blasts transferred.
5 remain on ice. Donor eggs and hubby's swimmers.
I'm devastated.
Spent a fortune and three weeks away from my home and kids.
Two weeks away from DH.
Looks like I started losing one then it caused loss of the twin.
How many do other gals have transferred at my age?
Any feedback appreciated.
I'm gutted.


----------



## artist_mum

hi *oldermum*

So sorry to hear it hasn't worked out for you this time, it's so hard especially as you say, you have given so much to do this cycle. It's a very difficult time for you right now, sending 

Penny at Serum is really very good and will no doubt check into why it hasn't worked and give you some feedback. She is great on email for answering your questions.. Also there is a great example of older mum on this string - look back to CoolJules post which is about 11 posts back on here.

I too am in that bracket! So sending you lots of good wishes, hoping you'll get through this bit and move on to have that baby that you and your DH wish for.

xx


----------



## fififi

oldermum - hope you get some answers and feel able to move forward soon. Seems so unfair, especially when you'd put so much into the cycle.      


Happy New Year everyone - hoping that 2014 will be a good time for us all with lots of happy news being posted                                                     


AFM - finally my clinic reopened after Xmas break and much to my relief my donor is still ok to go ahead with cycle and will start DR mid Jan (was very nervous phoning as she was awaiting AF last thing I heard so was a risk she may have pulled out!)
The consultant is a bit bemused as to why my cycles have gone nuts again - 11 days between AF over Xmas!!!! - he wants me to count the last bleed as the one to use for treatment purposes but I will start down reg on my day 18 rather than day 21 now. Am bit nervous still that my hormones are out of sinc but assuming since it's DE IVF this shouldn't affect outcome. Clinic very short of time to talk today - having been closed for 2 weeks - so feel a liitle rushed but guess that's a mixture of frustration as well as pre-cycle nerves. So in theory I'll start Downreg in a couple of weeks. Really hope rest of cycle goes to plan as my nerves so far have been tested somewhat.


----------



## Coolish

Thanks everyone for your congrats xx

*Fififi* - sorry to here about your af playing up - mine has played up in soem way on nearly every cycle that I've done - it's as if it knows!

*Oldermum* - sorry to hear about your loss. Artist_mum is right - I've just had my Serum baby at the age of 49 (well 2 days after my 49th birthday  Peny is fab and will be able to give you some good feedback and suggest possible tweaks to your protocol. I had 3 blasts transferred, 2 implanted and I lost one at 5 weeks.

*Debs* - great news that you're heading towards the magic 12 week milestone. The 12 week scan is amazing!
*
Artist_mum* - I'm sorry to hear you're struggling but this time last year I was in the doldrums and struggling too. I'd had my 4 failed DE attempt in the October and tested positive for hidden c in November and was just about to start my ABs and book my appointment with Peny. A year later and what a difference. Hang on in there xx


----------



## oldermum

Thank you so much for your support across the seas, artist mum, fififi, and cooljules xxx

It gets a bit easier each day...

I'm a bit gutted that I shared half my story with my BF who has also just turned 48 and has two kids from first marriage and two kids from current marriage.
She knew we'd tried IVF once two years ago in ozand lost it and she cant understand why I haven't let it go as "we are way past that kind of thing"

I'm absolutely shell shocked.  Thought she would  support me.  My beloved 41yo young husband of four years has NEVER been a bio dad.  She just doesnt get it I didn't even tell her it was a donor egg, told a white lie and said we tested my eggs and they were good...

You can never assume to know someone as well as you think...

My own parents have been fabulously supportive, looked after my ten yo while I was away for three weeks.  It was SOOO hard.


----------



## deblovescats

oldermum - I echo what everyone on here says - don't give up!" Stick to your guns. I'm sorry your BF wasn't supportive. I've been worrying about telling people the news - so far so good but loads to go. My manager is supportive but surprised ( I think she's panicking about how to cope without me - and she said I can come back on however many days I want, just she wants me back!) Told one work colleague and she was absolutely delighted - she bought me roses, hugged me and said they'll all look after me at work! Lovely reaction!
jules - so happy for you, hope the LO is doing well! Your story has always given me hope. Can't believe the time is passing - I'm now 12 + 2 - got my scan next Wed 8th (can't wait to see the LO, hope everything's ok, pretty nervous). 
Deb


----------



## LellyLupin

Hello girls happy news Year to you all xxx

Jules congratulations on the birth of your little girl - you have my baby name in there - Sylvie - I have never heard anyone else use it    How does it feel to be a Mum finally?  Soon be you Debs!  How exciting!

Oldermum take no notice of your BF you do what is right for you and DH and igniore everyone else, I am sure one of your snowbabies will take and you will get your wish this year xx

Everyone else I hope we get our dreams this year and for those struggling big    to you xx


----------



## oldermum

Thanks from across the seas, lovely ladies
I feel a lot less alone
I live in a very small town and people are very narrow minded. They still struggle to accept that  I'm older  than my DH.  Sigh...

We've only lived together in my hometown and its been four years (I'd just returned from Perth when we met  and my DH was having a sea change from Melbourne) we are both increasingly feeling a longing to return to sophisticated city life and anonymity!
We may even have an option to go to Cyprus to live.  That's where my DH is from originally before Turks invaded and stole their home..  I call him hubby but we aren't yet technically married.  I'm thinking let's just do it, so we all have EU passports and can get on with a new exciting life.  We could take our pet dog too.

I'd love to move there and start afresh with no old school mates knowing EVERYTHING about me, my age, etc..

Last night I was thinking maybe we could go there really soon, do it all over there with no more OS travel.

My 18yo is due to start Uni but very keen to study in London.  Psychology.

Many options.
Feeling optimistic.
Thanks again xxx


----------



## deblovescats

hi to lesley - hope you're doing ok - do what you need to.
Hope you're coping with sleepless nights jules! 
oldermum - you'll get so much support on here, it's an incredible thread! I really feel like i know some of you guys so well and I'm hoping and praying you get a BFP this year! 
AFM - I'm fine, just a bit of morning sickness, coping ok though. Wanted to share my scan news - 8th Jan - amazing to see a real baby on the screen (not my imagination) - very active and not co-operating with the scan - had to wriggle my bum around to get it to shift position! radiographer said good heartbeat, strong spine, all 4 limbs, could even see the fingers! She said I was measuring 13 + 4, when according to clinic would be 13 exact, but she said it was fine a week either side. Was so stunned.
Told everyone at work today (had previously confided in one person and manager) - they're all shocked and delighted. I even had two in tears, and they've been so supportive I was amazed. I was dreading the reaction as I'm the one that everyone relies on and they never anticipated it would be me giving the news. I've had to share the scan photo with everyone.
Deb


----------



## fififi

Deblovescats - wow, you've even made me feel bit teary from the excitement and happiness in your post. So thrilled you scan brought continued good news and you were able to go and public ally announce your good news.
Do keep popping by to update us - we need to know happy endings are possible no matter how rubbish journey to get there is.
Keep on smiling and enjoying your wonderful new status


----------



## Moominmum

Just a few words to *Debs*: what a wonderful post to read and how lovely to reaction from work was! Can't wait to hear more along your journey. 

Moominmum


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Debs*... lovely news... really pleased for you. How amazing to see a 'real baby' on the screen! You must have been so emotional. That's so refreshing to get positive reactions from your work colleagues. Great to hear!

*Fififi*... when do you start your DR honey? Must be close now? Excited, nervous?

Hello to everyone else reading... sorry, I've had some time out from FF and TTC over Christmas and have lost track of where everyone is at.

*AFM*... booked my flights to Athens. Appt/first consultation at Serum on the 27th of Jan. Plan is to have one last OE cycle in March, then move onto DE.

xxx


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - glad flights are booked & you're all set to have a last try but from different angle. Hopefully change of clinic will bring the BFP you deserve.

AFM - I start down reg drugs on Monday. My donor starts similar time so if all goes to plans she will begin stims 2 weeks after that and then I guess her EC will be 10-12 days from there.
Am still feeling little apprehensive about fact it's a DE cycle rather than OE but equally going into a cycle with three times the chance we've ever been given before is definitely boosting our confidence. Just need to try and rein in my optimism now as think it's got a bit carried away and there's still only a 40% chance not 100% like my head is currently feeling.
Bit unsure about changes to drugs as consultant is suggesting I have clexane injections again (tried this for first time on last cycle which was BFN and I bled early) in addition, to prevent early bleed he is suggesting gestone injections rather than cyclogest. These are lots more expensive and from what I've read pretty horrid to do as intramuscular. Trying to reassure myself that if I get BFP it'll be worth extra pain & cost but right now feeling bit overwhelmed by it all.


----------



## artist_mum

hi
lots of great buzzy chat on here!

*kirsty* glad you got all booked in for Serum. We are going next week so will miss you by 10 days or so! But really pleased it's all going forward.

*debs* that really was lovely to read your post, i also feel excited for you. How lovely to see your LO so clearly. Best wishes with everything

*fififi* Good to hear you are feeling positive - 100% sounds like a good PMA! On the gestone, I had that last time (with ARGC) and DP gave me the shots. If you can relax (i didn't look at him, just lay down on the bed) then it really isn't bad at all. He gave me them sometimes and I asked when he was going to do it, and he already had! Honestly! So don't worry about them, and yeah.. it'll be worth it anyway. I know what you mean about overwhelmed, I felt the same with ARGC - maybe try to build in time for you and your thoughts, and relaxation etc. I know that isn't easy but it may help with the feeling of it all being a lot to take in..

*oldermum* hi, it all sounds exciting with your possible plans, I hope you work out the best way for you and your family and I totally understand how awful it is when your friend doesn't get it - my family were the same. Told me it is a waste of money. It is upsetting to feel unsupported by the very people you think love you the most, but then, this is YOUR journey and other peoples' thoughts are not really relevant. Go for it girl!

*cooljules* thanks so much for your comments and support. So kind when I know you must be full on with your little one! It really helps, and we are going forward with things again so I will keep positive, and inspired by all the people on here who kept going where that felt right for them. Hope things are going OK and you are getting some decent sleep in.

*moominmum**lesley* hi to you both and . And to anyone else reading.

AFM We are off to Serum this wednesday for sperm check and aqua scan. And to see when we organise tx for. I'm pleased we are getting on with it. Hopeful. Inspired by lots of you on this string to keep on going. Also I started my new job in a school this week which has been good fun and.. well, an education! Those teachers deserve a pat on the back at the very least 

love to all xx


----------



## fififi

Artist mum - good to hear from you again.
Exciting times coming up - hopefully Serum will work its magic and come Autumn 2014 they'll be a whole load of us with swollen bellies     

Thanks for your comments - have just posted elsewhere asking about gestone injections and how painful they actually are. Good to hear they are not as bad so Google makes out!!!!


PS hope people have a good weekend xxxx


----------



## Salad4

Debs - thanks for the lovely post - so pleased for you.
Fififi - good luck with the cycle and hopefully the injections will be ok - sounds as though they should be.
Kirsty & Artist Mum- hope all goes well at Serum.  They sound great there.
Moominmum & Lesley - hope you're well.
Oldermum - sounds like you've got lots of decisions to make.  Don't forget there are lots of people on FF to give you a listening ear and a supportive shoulder.
Cooljules - thanks for sticking here at the end of the journey, even though you're probably pretty busy!
Chocochine - I was on maximum stimms for my last two cycles.  As I trusted my clinic & Dr, then I was ok with that (and I am a poor responder).  At previous clinics when they had lost my trust, I wouldn't have felt happy with any dose they recommended.
AFM - TTC naturally (with duofertility) & letting my body re-settle - my cycles are still a bit erratic in terms of days.  A friend is also being tested to see if she could be a donor for me.  She's 39, so she'll need to have better than average AMH, but we're keeping our fingers crossed!
Sallyx


----------



## LellyLupin

Hello girls lots of exciting things going on on here.

Debs so pleased you saw your little one it must have been so exciting.  Have your nerves about doing this alone dispersed now you have seen him/her?  Its a shame you can't post your scan on here or can you?  Any names in the frame yet?  V excited for you.

Good luck to all you girls in the process of TX at the mo or with flights booked for Serum, lets hope 2014 is the year for babies on this thread.

AFM  Just bought a fertility monitor ready to order some donor sperm once I have had my appointment re blood pressure sorted from the hospital.  My doc says not to try until they find out why my BP is so high, I think its because I am so stressed about not having a family, I feel so left behind.  Going to try for a few months with donor sperm and if no luck insist on DE IVF - I need a family of my own.

Hello to Sally, Roxy Feefs Moomin and Kirsty xx


----------



## fififi

Lesley - you don't sound right hun. Wish we were geographically nearer cos think we'd all seriously benefit from a "girls night out" where we can moan about the unfairness of life, ***** about people we know who just don't get how we feel and/or keep popping out babies and laugh about the crazy things we've tried!!!

Hope they sort your blood pressure issues out - but never ending sadness and stress about babies isn't going to be helping. You definitely need to start making plans & believing you can achieve the dream.
Glad you found somewhere that supplies donor sperm - knowing that you giving that a try has got to be a good thing. If DP is happy with that () then hopefully his barrier to DE ivf might have come down too.

Wishing I could give you them in person here are some hugs for now      


Your happiness is somewhere. It's just taking a while to reach


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## LellyLupin

Thanks Feefs  I wish you were closer too, its so hard not having anyone close to talk to, just about everyone I know has kids so can't understand how I feel. I'd love a proper get together with people who know exactly the effects of infertility and the emotions it throws out. Also I have just come back from a funeral in Scotland and 4 different people asked me when DP and I were going to have kids of our own, I just didn't know what to say.    I wouldn't say DP is happy about the donor sperm thing he just has no choice as its that or ivf, I am beginning to think its just the money issue with him cos that's all he seems to focus on.  He said he wished I'd already had kids when I met him and then we'd all be happy.  I just wish I had a partner who wanted the same thing as me,  it must be so lovely to be working towards the same goal as your partner.

Its all sounding very exciting about your tx, what is it you are apprehensive about re DE?  Debs/Jules can you enlighten us on how you feel about your DE baby?  What thoughts run through your head, maybe we all have the same thoughts/fears and sharing would help?  With regards to donor sperm I am still feeling apprehensive about if I do fall pregnant as it wouldn't be DPs and I would worry about him rejecting the baby,  but to be honest I have gone from wanting his baby to any baby now I am coming up 47 and I know the chances of falling are very slim.  Of course I would love a baby of our own but the chances are now virtually zero so I have to consider any option. How did you select your egg donor was there anything inparticular you were looking for Fifi?


----------



## deblovescats

hi girls
thanks for kind words to fiffi, Lesley, kirsty, salad, artist ... 
hope the little one is fine jules
Lesley - maybe we could meet up sometime if you want - I don't think we're too far away!
AFM - Im doing fine, it was amazing seeing the LO on screen. I've been blown away by reactions from work colleagues - lots of promises of transport to appointments, (including offering to take my elderly mum to her medical appts), baby sitting and advice. And promises that they'll look after me at work - one keeps bringing me satsumas saying I have to keep up vit C! I have worries at times about doing it alone, but think the  benefits outweigh the negatives. And as one colleague said, you can always meet a man later, you might not have the chance for a baby later. Good advice I thought. 
I'm going on holiday with my sister later this week - for a relaxing break before  baby! So might not be online as often till I get back. 
As for DE - I thought long and hard about it, but for me it was really a no brainer. I know some people struggle more. I do grieve the fact I won't have a genetic link to LO but I wanted to give myself the best option. As some wise person has said, the egg is a minute collection of cells, and the mummy who gives birth is the one who has nourished and cared for it and will care for it for life. I wanted to give myself the best chance statistics wise and when you factor in financial matters, it makes sense. I found I wanted a baby more than risking not getting one. Also, realistically, I knew the older I am, there is a much greater risk of chromosomal defect and disability than with a younger egg, though I know this does not always happen. I feel that I couldn't love the LO more than if I was the genetic mother. I also liked the donor's pen portrait so this helped. I haven't obviously told anyone at work about DE - I consider that aspect as my business! I'm taking it a step at a time, and trying not to get too excited yet, but being quietly optimistic. 
I just also worry about my two little fur babies  especially Timmy who is my clingy little darling. I just hope they adapt!
Good luck to anyone heading off to Serum and to anyone else about to start tx. Lets hope that 2014 is the year everyone gets a BFP - you all deserve it, you're amazingly strong women and don't let anyone make you doubt that - all those who've never been in our shoes and just have a baby at the drop of a hat! The waiting will make us all better mummies!
Deb


----------



## LellyLupin

Aw Debs what good advice you have had from your friends, they are right you only borrowed the cells -  the Mummy part is all you.  I know you will be a fantastic Mum and the fact that you are still worrying about the cats proves it, a true lovely person as a lot of people would think bugger the cats now I am pregnant.  I would worry how my Suzy would react too as she is very jealous and I am all hers, I think she would struggle having some competition.    I would love to meet up with you are you in Scarborough or somewhere on the north east coast?  Love that everyone is looking after you at work and heres you worried that they would all be funny with you    How are you feeling healthwise, are you suffering any sickness are you feeling good?    I am hoping they can sort my blood pressure out as I was told by my doctor that if I had fallen pregnant it could have killed me as I had stage 3 hypertension.  They just can't fathom why its so high so I have an appointment to find out tomorrow.  I am so hoping they don't say I can't try for a baby.  What do your mum and sister think of your baby news I bet they are so excited about it.  It sounds like you will have lots of support around you, you don't need a man for support at all    Hope you have a fab holiday xx


----------



## deblovescats

Lesley - hope you're doing ok. Would be good to meet up - I'll be in touch when I get home.
Good luck to anyone undergoing tx soon.
AFM - off on holiday to Malaysia tomorrow - to get some sand and sea, taking care with travel - flight socks, drinking water etc. Had a letter this morning with results of nuchal translucency/combined test - thankfully result came back as low risk - 1 in 2,700 risk of Downs etc. Although I know that isn't a definite diagnosis, I feel relieved that hopefully the likelihood is that everything's ok. I think a low risk is anything above 1: 250. Glad the letter came in time for holiday!
If I'm not online for a while, it's if I can't get access to the internet, and will post when I get back.
Deb


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

hi grils just back from a weeks holiday, so a lot less stressed! i have a lister appointment next week and and a phone call booked with penny so i will see which each of them advise. i have got my vitamins as well so he we go. i really hope i can start this process as soon as possible my period is due next week.


----------



## fififi

Just a quickie to wish Debs a wonderful holiday and to send a smile hearing good news re tests.
Look after you & bubba and enjoy that warm sunshine - am doubly jealous now!!!!


----------



## fififi

Chocochine - glad you're feeling rested by your holiday. It'll take a while until you are properly back on top but getting those appointments in now and thinking ahead feeling positive can only do you good.
Hope either Lister or Penny give you the confidence you need


----------



## oldermum

Deb you must be soaking up the sun in Malaysia by now.  Enjoy every moment.  I loved reading about the beautiful positive reactions from your workplace and your joy and acceptance of using a DE.  I don't know if you've heard about Epigenetics.  There are fascinating studies of the effect of the birth mothers body and genes affecting how genes in a DE conceived baby are expressed.  The mothers influence is very strong.  Anecdotally on my Aussie forum there are real life cases of mums observing very obvious "genetic" expression in their DE conceived offspring.  From birthmarks in the same spot to hair type to eye colour etc..  It's absolutely fascinating and so reassuring to think that the environment we are providing to this little cluster of cells has such a huge impact on how they will develop.    Maybe try to google epigenetics in IVF?

Everyone else,  best of luck whatever stage of the journey you are up to.  

I'm having an appt with a Melbourne FS before I return to Serum hopefully March for second attempt.  We have five x 5 day blasts on ice.  At this stage I'm thinking I'm going to just have one transferred to give it the best possible chance of surviving and thriving.


----------



## hopeful68

Just a real quick Hi from me to keep in touch. Been  REALLY busy, exam done - find out the result next month, essay due in in a week and the next assignment set. all that and looking after an unwell dog - diarrhoea for a week but the vet isn't worried !!!! bless him not feeling too great - I have a feeling it may be kidney failure and the beginning of the end  . Grandfather at 90 went to London for an Op and they drained 2.6ltr of fluid from his chest!! ( I had told him to go see the Dr back in Nov and this is the result!!) glad he made it through that. Dad and his fiancée are in Oz. Still haven't got her sussed out in my head - she always manages to 'not be about' when I visit dad!! Have definitely moved on in life plans in relation to kids and am starting to look forward to a good summer of trips away in the camper. not time to catch up on everything you have all been doing so Hugs, congrats, best wishes etc to you all....essay calling, back soon!!


----------



## hopeful68

For those following the epic adventure of my poor little dog and his health battles and triumphs over the past 12 months or so, we had him put to sleep on Friday. The weather is matching the mood at the moment. no compassionate leave for animals, only close relatives - so 16yrs doesn't count then....!!?? The house is very empty - and without the prospect of any children to fill it is leading to a very dark mood at the moment. however I am sure things will pick up again......


----------



## fififi

Hopeful     
So sorry to see you've lost your dog. As a member of your family for 16 years his absence is going to leave a huge hole. It'll take a long time to get used to him not being there.


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Hopeful so sorry to hear about your dog mine is snoring as we speak and I know how sad you must feel.just thing of the joy they have brought you big hugs x


----------



## artist_mum

*hopeful* so sorry to hear, thinking of you (as a fellow dog owner)&#8230; it's so hard when it's time for them to go. i hope you find the way through those feelings, lots of  xx


----------



## deblovescats

Hi girls
I'm now back from my holiday - quite de-stressed - had a lovely time relaxing by the beach and went swimming every day. Did limited sight seeing (usually it's hard to stop my sister dragging me all over but she was quite understanding due to pregnancy!) We did a day in Hong Kong and one in Singapore. I know from now on hols are going to be totally different (but looking forward to it). Had a horrendous time with nausea and sickness - I get travel sick anyway and usually have very effective travel sickness patches from GP but obviously couldn't use them, so tried pressure bands - did not work for me. I also had morning sickness, so I was quite drained, but I'm coping fine. 
Back at work today - they've all missed me and said I'm now allowed maternity leave - LOL- as they can't manage without me! 
So sorry hopeful about your lovely dog - you miss them so much. I'd be devastated if it happened to my little cats. They were fine with my aunt looking after them but obviously missed me - Timmy did not leave my side all night! Even got in bed with me and kept coming to look at me - to make sure I was still there!
Thanks for your supportive words oldermum about epigenetics - I'm going to research it.
I'm now 16 weeks and have got a bit of a baby belly! No one has commented on it yet - but had to give my sister one of my swimsuits on holiday - fortunately I took another 3 with me! I think I'm going to have to start investing in a few items of maternity wear, been delaying up to now! 
Good luck everyone undergoing treatment or planning it. 
Good on you hopeful - about moving on with life - I really respect you!
Deb


----------



## Coolish

I've not posted for a while but I have still been reading...

*Hopefull *- sorry to hear about your dog. My last dog died 12 years ago and it still chokes me up when I think about him. They are completely part of the family.

*Artist_mum* - how did yout Serum trip go?

*Debs* - sounds like things are going lovely with you xx

*Kirsty* - just realised that you are probably in Athens now, at Serum - hope it's everything to you that I found it to be. I went out in March for consult and hysto, then ET in April, BFP by May 

Hi to everyone else I know on this thread xx

*Lesley* - you asked about DE babies? Well to be honest she's MY baby


----------



## fififi

Glad you had lovely holiday Debs and that bump of yours is continuing to grow nicely. It'll be very exciting buying maternity clothes  

Lesley - what did the hospital say cause of your high blood pressure could be? Have they given you something to help? Are you feeling bit more yourself now?

Cool joules - hope you are still smiling lots and your LO is letting you get some sleep at least

Older mum - hope you're feeling a little less sad and are starting to feel positive about future possibilities once more. 

Chocochine - have you made a decision as to which clinic to go with next? Hope your consultations were useful

Hopeful - few extra hugs    Hope people around you are being kind this week

Salad - hope things progressing well your end. Have you found out if your friend can be a donor yet?

Artist mum - where are you upto now? How did Serum trip go?

Kirsty - hope you're enjoying your little holiday to Athens and at the same time finding the opportunity to speak with Penny helpful. Looking forward to hearing your update and seeing what Penny recommends you do.

Moom - hi Hun, not heard much from you in while. Do hope you're doing ok    

Hi to anyone else I've missed - brain not functioning well currently so apologies!

AFM - had my DR scan today and lining & estrogen levels fine. My donor goes for hers tomorrow so if all ok with her then she'll start stims & I'll start HRT drugs. Then if all plods along as it should I'm expecting EC to be in couple of weeks. Having only done short cycles over last couple of years this seems very slow. Plus it feels really weird not being the one to take the stims and not needing to think about how many follies are growing etc. - though in a way I'll still be thinking about it but unable to really know what's going on. From what I gather my clinic won't update me until donor ready for EC
Exciting times ahead but also feeling little scared as so desperately want this to work as this really does need to be our last shot from financial point of view. Having paid clinic £5,500 today I'm only too aware of how much we've riding on this both emotionally & financially.


----------



## fififi

Well donor not down regulated enough so need to wait another week and hope she's ready then. My clinic only start ladies on stims on a Thursday so everything now put back whole week which is bit frustrating as original dates fitted in well with other stuff going on my life & work commitments. So an extra week of DR injections for me - my only real side effect is having a huge craving for sugary foods hence if it goes on much longer I'll have a more wobbly bits than ever!!!! All the better for injecting I guess


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hello ladies,

*Fififi*... wow, things are really motoring ahead hun! Good for you. A right pain about your donor not being 'down-regulated enough'... I've never heard of this. What does it mean and how do they know? I can totally imagine it feels weird that you aren't doing the stims yourself. I would feel the same. On the plus side the pressure must be reduced ten-fold. Not having to worry about what the follicles are doing... are there enough? are they growing? etc. Do you think you'd want to know about your donor's progression? I was thinking that would be added pressure that you have no control over and it would be more worrisome? Whichever way you look at it the whole thing is bloody stressful though! Keep us in touch.

*CoolJules*... nice to hear from you and I hope all is going well. Just back from Serum! update below..

*Hopeful*.. so sorry to hear about the sad news of your dog passing away. Pets really are part of the family.

*Debs* ... glad you had a nice holiday and the bump is growing nicely.

*Lesley*... what happened with the donor sperm you were looking for? Did you get anywhere with that?

*Salad/Sally*.. any further along with your friend being your donor?

Hi to *Chocochine, Moomin, Roxy, OlderMum * xxx

*AFM*.... Just got back from Serum. Penny really is as lovely as everyone says! The clinic was in an unimpressive, untidy back street and initially DP and I thought "what the hell?" Don't be put off by this though... the clinic itself it a lot nicer on the inside. Had to wait a while because it was so busy. Lots of ladies in the waiting area all chatting about FF! Funny! The consultation was with Penny and a newish doctor called Meridis Lefteris. My DP liked him and said they both talked to him too and included him in discussions which a lot of consultants haven't done in the past and he didn't feel like a lemon sitting there! Penny went through my notes that I took with us, including details of previous cycles and hysto in UK. Then DP gave a sample and I had my scan. All very professional and no messing about! hi-tech scanning equipment etc. She said ovaries looked good... lots of follis, good shape and size ("like a woman 10 or 15 years younger") ... not sure if she says this to everyone though?! My lining wasn't great.. so I'm booked in for Greek Hysto next Saturday! She could see a 'film' or membrane in my uterus that may be impeeding implantation, plus wasn't very thick even though on day 26... so having a D&C, plus deep implantation cuts to get blood flowing. No need for aquascan as this is arranged instead. DP's sperm looked excellent to start with, BUT after an hour 80% were dead, 2 hours 90% dead!! What?! Nobody has ever told us this before. Means chances of conceiving naturally are almost zero. Such a shock. This is fixable with high-strength vit C, E and antibiotics. Also it's not a problem for the IVF as sperm used immediately for ICSI. Still a surprise though... knowing we could have tried for years on our own not knowing our window of opportunity is about 2 hours max! Also I now don't feel as if it's all 'my fault'. So, I fly back next Friday on my own for op early on Sat morning with the doctor from Serum. Then IVF with OE in March. Exciting stuff! Penny wants to persevere with my eggs for time-being as thinks my lining is the problem. Learnt so much! Then we did open-top bus tour around Athens in the sunshine, visited the Acropolis and ate some delicious Greek food. It was a nice few days really! Hotels recommended on Agate's Serum file all looked good (we checked them out).. plus the transport system is super. Used the buses and the Metro to save money on expensive taxi fares. Would be totally happy travelling this way again on my own. Easy to use and safe. If anyone is debating about whether to travel to Serum or not, then I'd say go for it. The consultation and my scan were free too. What a breath of fresh air 

Sorry so long! xx


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

wow kirstylovesushi so great you got so much information from serum, penny does sound lovely.

i spoke to penny on the telephone last Friday, she wants me to send me period blood, so that will have to wait till next period the 15th i think. penny suggested flare/ short protocol for me, with less drugs than 300 menopur that i have been on. i don't actually know what flare is?

my appointment with Dr wren went well last Thursday, she is very straight forward, she reassured me that the treatment protocol i had been on at my clinic was OK and she said as it worked she would follow the same long protocol but stick to 300 menopur not up to 450 but she would add presnidlone? i think this i for immune mild steroid? penny also mentioned this. i also had a scan at lister they said i had a good follicle count and no problems but Dr wren was brutally honest and said better odds with donor eggs but there was a wait list.

i am still in two minds as i would definitely travel to lister for donor egg treatment, which my current clinic wont treat me with as single, but i feel that i would like one more try with my own eggs as both penny and Dr wren said just trying 3 iuis and 2 ivfs weren't many attempts, but i know finacially it would be better to put my hopes into donor eggs. i have asked my current clinic if they will treat me with presnidlone.

so although i feel i have more reassurance in my current clinic, in my body, my mind doesn't want to give up on my own eggs but my sensible hat wants to draw a line, so i think one more attempt with own eggs, i think if my current clinic will add the presnidlone i would stay with them as easier not to travel at the moment, but i am a little worried in the difference of 300 to 450 menopur. in the mean time i will send my period bloods to penny in case something comes up there. travelling to serum would definitely be cheaper than London.

in the meantime on Monday i had a shoulder operation, so i resting up for a couple of weeks.
good luck everyone x


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## mamochka

Hello lovely ladies,

I am also exploring the Serum option. I had a MMC at 9w after FET in ARGC this past December and speaking to the doctor at ARGC for follow-up consultation made me have serious second thoughts about continuing with them. I came to follow up with notepad of ideas and suggestions on how to tweak my future fresh cycle. I know i am not a doctor but i am also very aware of my body and what it needs, but the doctor was very dismissive and also completely relying on Mr. T whim. It was also nice to find out after spending close to 18000£ that only 10% of the eggs for my age would be free of chromosomal abn. I mean I know it all statistics and everyone is different but why not say it on the first consultation.

Anyways, i already had a consult with Penny last Oct and now plan to send the period blood in the next few days and fly to Athens on the 11th. Kristie you post was very timely for me - thanks for the summary.

If any of you who is reading is planning to be in Athens around 12-14 Feb (Arty?) please let me know as it will be nice to have a travel buddy.

Hug and love to all you strong ladies

xxx


----------



## Salad4

hopeful - so sorry to hear about your dog.  As I'm sat on the sofa with my 14 year old cat snuggled next to me, it made me tear up.  
Debs - I'm loving hearing about your pregnancy progress.
Fififi - it must be frustrating to have the timings put back but exciting to be on the journey.
Mamochka - good luck with Serum
Chocochine - good luck with your next move - getting all the info is so much better so you feel a bit more informed and a bit less in the Dr's power.
Kirsty - it sounds great at Serum and I'm certainly jealous of the Greek weather!
Lesley - I hope your journey is moving along.  It sounds really hard, but you are planning for the future and making the present happen, which is good.
Cooljules, ArtistMum, oldermum, hope all is well. 
AFM - my friend has been for her blood tests, but needs to go for the scans before we know whether that will work.  If her results aren't good enough then I am ready to move onto unknown donor.  Not sure if my partner has thought it through, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.  And still TTC naturally, just in case a miracle happens with Duofertility and Zestica gel...keeps me calm anyway - if I was just waiting for my friend's test results I'd be climbing the wall, but this way I feel like I'm doing something even if it is completely hopeless!
Enjoying the sunny weekend in London, hope it is good where you all are.
Sallyx


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## fififi

Salad - hope your friend's results come through quickly & you can get going with next step. Or,better still you manage that natural miracle after all   

Mamocha - hope Penny able to offer a fresh perspective and you are able to move forwards soon ... With a good result not long after

Choco - hope you're not in too much pain following shoulder op. Seems like you've lots of options to consider - hard making choices but in their own way each option sounds promising. I'm currently doing DE cycle as DH wasn't prepared to throw any more emotions or money at OE one. I keep having blips where I wonder if the move is right but then I look at what we've achieved over last 4, nearly 5 years, and remind myself that what we dearly want is a baby and by using DE we've pretty much tripled if not quadrupled our chances. Do hope your final OE try brings joy  

Kirsty - wow, what a lot you've got out of your visit to Serum. It sounds like you've lots to consider and some new avenues to explore.bet you feel much more confident and are raring to have a cycle there. Think it's great that you've left with such positivity - hopefully you're be seeing another positive real soon now   

Hope everyone else doing ok    

AFM - well I've shown strength beyond natural today as went to visit my closest friend who had baby 3 days ago. My DD is best friends with her DD so have spent last few days trying to help my LO cope with her sadness at being on person she knows without a baby brother or sister. Have invented loads of reasons why she's better off as an only child but not sure she bought them anymore than I did. Visiting was a big challenge but we managed it and even managed to cuddle the baby yet stay positive and without tears the whole time. Situation is made harder owing to fact my friend didn't even want another child and "fell pg by accident". Very confused as to why life has given her baby when 2 streets away I am doing everything humanly possible to try and get one! Just hope my current tx works as not sure how I'll cope with this baby being so involved in my life if not. At moment I'm hoping his baby ness will rub off and help my body get one too but not convinced this inner strength will last. Plus my DD struggling too is making it even harder for me. On the plus side it has reminded me how much we struggled to get DD and I am forever grateful that we have one miracle in our lives.


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## artist_mum

hi
Lots of chat on here - i haven't been on for a bit&#8230;

*cooljules* Good to hear from you, glad you are OK and you are enjoying YOUR baby! Hope there is some good quality (if not quantity) sleep available for you  Our Serum trip wasn't really as expected: Have been pg twice with DP's sperm but they said same as Kirsty it seems: quality fine but motility not good. For me, aqua scan was a problem, could not get the catheter in, tried a thicker one and he jabbed something inside me which put me into shock (nausea, sweating etc). Managed to get catheter in but water did not inflate the uterus sufficiently so another hysto for me. I have never had a problem with getting a catheter in before (but perhaps there is scar tissue from miscarriage, that is what Penny seems to think). We are going back 28 Feb for sperm and hysto to remove further scar tissue. Aiming for ET in early April (school holiday). It just seems to be one thing after another, but i have a very keen and encouraging DP so we keep going!

*fififi*well done on the baby visit, that's not easy. And doubly hard to talk a LO through it all as well. but sounds like you are on the way at last with this cycle, hope all goes smoothly over next couple of weeks for you

*salad* I guess it's a bit tense waiting to find out about your friend, I hope the results are good and if it isn't her then I guess you can put it to fate to have the right baby for you. Hope it turns out well and you find out soon

*mamochka* hope your serum trip goes well, i will be there 28 Feb so after you. But good luck with it

*cocochine* looks like you have some decisions to make, i can understand you wanting to give OE another go, and Penny often advises well on this one - if it works then you will forever be glad you gave it that one more shot. But financially.. it really is a dilemma for us all. I have only ever tried DE due to my age so have been spared that decision - and also don't know what flare is either! I have had prednisalone which is for immunes so it seems to make sense to have it anyway. Good luck!

*kirsty* glad all went well in Athens, it is nice there isn't it! We enjoyed our trip and it seems, had similar thing to you with the sperm. DP is taking same AB and vitamins. He has done all this once already and I'm a bit unsure as we have had a natural pg and a successful IVF although as you say they do use ICSI anyway. I'm having a second hysto on 28th Feb, so after you! But you know, it does all seems sensible, to do a new protocol and give it your everything with the scratch etc. It's really good that you are getting on with it so quickly.

*debs* glad you had such a lovely holiday, you are so sensible taking care of yourself. I do feel excited for you!! it's funny, it feels like that when it is someone from on here that is pg. Sounds like work are going to take care of you which is also great. it's really encouraging to hear you getting on with your pregnancy 

AFM Serum trip was a nice break for DP and me which we really needed. His ex still has him in court over money which is difficult to say the least. Plus we have his kids here and it isn't always easy for us to get proper time together. On the Serum front, we were surprised to hear that DP sperm motility was a problem although quality was OK. We did not freeze any on that basis and he is taking AB and vitamins (again) and doing another sample on 28th Feb. I also gave unexpected results.. could barely get the catheter into the uterus due to scar tissue and it did not inflate in the aqua scan, again due to scar blockage (they reckon). So I am having another hysto on 1st March. Not looking forward to that as I had an allergic reaction last time. I really feel this is the last I can do on all this, I vary from determined and encouraged to despondent and feeling old  but we are booked, I'm on birth control pill to regulate my cycle and so.. bring it on!

Lots of love to *lesley, moominmum, older mum, hopeful* and anyone else reading

Roxy xx


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## fififi

Roxy - glad you managed to make a bit of a holiday whilst in Athens, or at least time alone with DP. How frustrating about the aqua scan - may not be scar tissue just a mischievous cervix!!! When I had iui treatment quite often the catheter wouldn't go in yet other times all fine. It's always adds a little extra stress when having ET but generally mine is being well behaved of late. Just rest of my body that's gone AWOL!
Hope vit c does it's thing and you & DP are ready for a positive cycle early March


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## artist_mum

thanks for that *fififi* i have only had catheter twice before and both went in smoothly so I guess i hadn't thought about that - maybe it is just coming from the wrong angle! Plus it was this new doctor at Serum and on the other thread a few people have been saying stuff about his techniques, having painful aqua scan when really it shouldn't be. I guess we won't know and it doesn't really matter, Penny is great and so we keep on trucking!!
Good luck with yours.. sending you  for your next steps


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## Altai

Hi ladies,

Lots of chat since I've been here last time.

I came back from Serum last w/end, had an overnight visit. Saw Penny &dr Meridis. i spoke to him last year on a fertility show. I got impression he's been working for Serum for some while. And before  in London. 
Had aquascan -no issues, good lining but I've been taking letrozol for this cycle as still hoping for a natural miracle.
Bought medication from Serum- much cheaper than in the uk for main drugs. I compared to prices in fertility2u, I know  they are bit more expensive than Asda but still give indication of prices in uk.

Totally agree with Kirsty about the clinic& Penny. Though again somehow i spoke more with dr Meridis than Penny. But overall had good impression about the clinic.

Artist_mum - sorry to hear you had problems with aqua. 
Kirsty, artist_mum -good luck  with hysto. Can't imagine what I do if needed hysto. Am of a bit of coward.

Fifi, salad - hope all goes well with donors. 

Deb - glad you had a great holiday, very handy in the months to come.

Chocochne - am in the same position debating how many more tries with oe to have/could afford. I think ONE of the main reasons I've decided to go with Serum is  to maximise oe Ivfs. 
Why don't you just tell your clinic that u r going to use prednisolone? Not asking but letting them know. If only difference with Lister protocol is this steroid. 

I asked Penny about short flare protocol as Lister wants me to do it next cycle.  But Penny thinks that short antagonist with different drugs would be better for me. 
In short flare  you start downreg (with nafarelin in my case) on D2 of your period and continue throughout the stimms. So, u use spray and stim drugs at the same time. The idea is to use more of your natural fsh.
But both clinics agree that am to be on 450u  of drugs - ouch...

Mamochka - good luck with trip to Athens. 

Good luck to all who I missed , sending my hugs and best wishes for the next steps


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## Coolish

I am so excited for all you lovely ladies that have been over to Serum. It makes me quite teary reading your experiences there as it's almost a year since I made my first journey over there at the start of march last year. I can't believe how much Penny and Serum have changed my life


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## Chandlerino

It's so fab to hear all the visits to serum as I've finally got DH to agree to go. I will need to have hysto as without a doubt I think my 'baby room' is the problem. Just need to scrape the money together now


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## deblovescats

thanks salad, jules, altai .... and anyone I missed. I think you've been very strong fiffi visiting the new baby. It's so hard.
I wish everyone luck who's off to serum - or to have any tx here in the UK. You all so deserve a happy outcome and I'm hoping so hard for everyone to get their dream! It can happen - just don't give up even though it seems impossible at times.
AFM - had to take my little fur baby Timmy for his jabs on Sat - he got clean bill of health and was a very good boy! Next month it's Daisy's turn - she's more of a nightmare to deal with than Timmy! Fingers crossed.
Had my Consultant appt today - everything fine - heard the heartbeat, very reassuring, midwife said she could feel baby kicking but I can't yet! It obviously takes longer when 1st baby should be next couple of weeks! 
Due to my age, and as I've had ? high blood pressure in the past, but fine lately, she wants me to be monitored more closely and to have scans at 24, 28,32 and 36 weeks as well - to check baby's growth. I'm fine with this - the more monitoring, the better as far as I'm concerned. It also means I get to see the baby more often!!! I've also got to have a glucose tolerance test at 28 weeks to check for gestational diabetes. So all going well so far.
Loads of baby dust to everyone!!!!
Deb


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## Sushi Lover

Hi girls,

I'm off to Athens tomorrow for my hysteroscopy. Feeling a bit apprehensive as will be on my own this time.

*Choco*.... Prednisolone is indeed a steroid that's used to treat immune problems like high NK Cells. I hope you recover from your shoulder op soon and good luck for your next steps.

*Mamochka*.... glad you are giving Serum a try too! I will miss you by a few days unfortunately. Thanks for the info regarding the special tea from Neal's Yard to help the uterus lining.

*Salad/Sally*.... I know what you mean about 'doing something' whilst waiting. I feel that way about my CBFM. Good luck with your friend's results.

*Fififi*..... Wow, you did well with your friend's baby lovie. That must have been tough. My cousin's baby was born in December and I still haven't seen him. I well up when I see stranger's babies, let alone a close friend or relative's! Yes, it doesn't seem fair when these people just fall by accident does it? Seriously, what is that all about?!

*Roxy*.... Glad Athens was a nice break. How funny your DP had the same results then.. he's a similar age to mine, so maybe age suddenly catches up with them too? Sorry about the problems with the catheter during your aquascan. I heard someone else had a painful/uncomfortable experience on another chat as well. She had some bleeding. I think if anyone is nervous about this procedure they should ask for Penny to do it personally as she is more experienced. The male doc (Dr Meridis) is doing my hysterosocpy on Sat!! Eeekk... at least I'll be asleep so won't know if he has trouble with the catheter! He told me he worked in London for a while so he does have lots of experience... I just think some docs have 'the knack' getting them in. Having said that he's a nice man, highly qualified doctor and my DP liked him straight away.

*Altai*... Glad you had a good experience of Serum as well. That's good to hear your aquascan was fine. When will you go back for your treatment?

*CoolJules*... ahh, bless you. Glad you are excited for us all. I hope we follow in your footsteps! Watch this space as they say... 

*Chand*.... I hope Penny works her magic with you too. Good luck with saving up!

*Debs*.... Glad your consultant appt went well and the heartbeat is strong etc. I think that's good to have all those scans... very reassuring. I always found that my 'naughty' cat was an absolute angel in the vets!? I'd warn the vet about her being a handful and then she'd sit there, good as gold, as if butter wouldn't melt and make me look a complete fool!! They are funny things.

Hello *Lesley, Moomin, Hopeful, OlderMum*... who else is reading these days? Haven't seen Ronnie for a while?

xx

xx


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## CHOCOCHINE

WOW LADIES SUCH A LOT TO CATCH UP ON!
thanks for the info everyone, my current clinic had agreed to prescibe predisolone so although it will be cheaper to go to serum i think it will be easier to cycle in uk. here i would be on long protocol and would start down regulation tomorrow on busalin 4 x per day, which i continue through stimms 450 menopur with ec for week of 10 th march. the only difference was penny wanting to do short flare proctol but i would have to wait to travel for a few months. i am keen to go again, but worried i should be investing oe cycle in serum, but my parents are still nervous. I am recovering from shoulder op, shoulder a bit sore 1st physio tomorrow, i really debated whether to hold off a month to recover, but then thought i am resting now anyway, may be it will help, the pain is more just a soreness but i had wanted to be recovered but it could be a few months and the biological clock is ticking.
kirstylovessushi goodluck with hysteroscopy 
mamochka good luck too
altai glad you liked serum
debslovescats glad all is well with baby x
everyone hope your dreams come true xxxxxxx


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## Coolish

Kirsty - good luck with the hysto. You'll be fine in Athens as you already know how easy it is to get around. I was absolutely fine when I had my hysto there and I know sorting out my baby room must have made a huge difference for me, plus I guess they'll be giving you implantation cuts which also increases the success rate.


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## mamochka

Kirsty - wishing you good luck with your Athens visit! Sorry we will not see each other ut i already hooked up with Artist-mum as she will be there during my stay.

Choco - good luck with your DR! Can i ask you why Penny suggested short flare for you and UK clinic is doing LP?

Chand - welcome! we are also saving some money for the march-april cycle. ARGC made us are threadbare

Deb - good luck with your pregnancy, i remember you from July/August due date thread!

Altai - hope we can chat more soon/tomorrow

AFM - trying not to worry about my visit alone to Greece, i traveled alone many times but not related to health)). Thinking i should book a cab well in advance if strike is going to be repeated next Tuesday. Now drinking raspberry leaf tea for the lining and doing some yoga poses.
Are there available ATMs around SERUM so i dont bring a lot of cash in case hysteroscopy is advised? 

Love to all xxx

m


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## CHOCOCHINE

Mamochka I really dont know! My clinic want me to do 450 menopur for last try. I then  consulted with another dr at current clinic nd they agreed to prescribe steriod penny and drwren suggested. Previously I was on 300 menopur and i got 16 and 18 eggs. Dr wren at lister suggested staying on 300 menopur. And penny suggested short flare, I know my fh levels are fine. It is a puzzle and I havent ruled out own egg at serum its just I cant see that happening soon. I am going to pay for period bloods at serum but will already be down regging, so I hope ok to send next week. Penny didnt want me on such high dosage because of quality.  I am really worrid about that but felt reassured thar dr wren agreed with my clinics protocol but I was also intrested in a milder approach for quality. Penny said short protocol is better for us oldies. I go around in circles my parents are funding third cycle and dont want me to go abroad as cheaper. I needed to hear that donor egg was my best option but still Wanted last own egg attempt. So decided to stay local if they agreed to steriod. I know if using donor egg I would probably do lister for open donor.  There may be an issue with shipping donor sperm to greece as my donor is open but penny said sperm free. I know if it was me paying I would go to serum as cheaper and 2 goes for 1. I am little worried now.


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## Coolish

There is an atm near serum - the lovely ladies on reception will point you in the right direction. We took some of the cash with us and drew the rest out over a couple of days due to the limits on withdrawals. I also used an atm just by the President.


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## mamochka

CHOCO, dont worry - different doctors have different views and maybe there is a way of achieving the same good result through different paths. We are a bit similar - older with decent number of eggs, so I will let you know (if you wish) what will be my discussion with Penny re protocol and what she will say about Long Protocol they used for me in ARGC. This is next Wed.

Hi to everyone!xxx


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## artist_mum

hi

*kirsty* just wanted to wish you all the best for they hysto tomorrow, not sure if you are on ff tonight or not but all the best, it will be fine. Their hospitals are so good and the doctors too. It is another Dr doing my hysto but I guess that's because he did the first one and they said then that I might need another. It is all quite straightforward really and Penny is so reassuring when you get back to the clinic. Best wishes xx

*mamochka* when are you going? we are there 28 March but in for hysto and straight home following day. I went alone the first time and really enjoyed the trip! Athens is quite easy to work out and everyone is friendly and helpful.

*cocochine* hope the shoulder patches up soon and the soreness goes away. Ready for your next baby steps..

*Altai* sounds like a constructive visit to Serum, and at least both clinics agree on 450, nice for them to be saying the same thing!

Good luck with the fundraising *chandlerino*! And lovely to hear *debs* update, it's good to have you on here and hear your progress. Same goes for *cooljules*! Lovely to think you were there at Serum and now home with baby .

*fififi, hopeful, older mum, salad, lesley* hope you are all ok.

Roxy x


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## mamochka

Artist_mum -  i apologize i confused your nickname with Artypants  
I am there 11-15 Feb.


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## fififi

Going to post quickly as just been reading & catching up but too much info to do personals! My brain retention is currently zero due to DR drugs so I'd need most of evening -sorry.

Serum seems very busy with you lot currently - I feel quite envious of all the potential you ladies have and the new options. Really hope those extra treatments and tweaks make a difference and soon we'll be a collection of mums to be    

AFM - my donor was finally down regulated enough so I started HRT drugs to thicken my lining on weds. She started stims on the Thursday. I have a scan next Fri (14) to check womb lining thick enough and then all being well EC will be early the week after. Exciting times I hope! Does feel odd not needing to create eggs myself and I don't like the not knowing how things are progressing. My clinic have said they will update but communication isn't their strong point so I suspect it will mean a lot of my mind going into overdrive and eventually me caving in and phoning the clinic.
It's my birthday next week so really hoping this will turn out to be the best birthday gift ever - even though it's now going to be arriving a week later now!


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## CHOCOCHINE

Fififi goodluck
Mamochka that eould be great if you keep me posted
Kirsty hope all went well with hysto
Thanks roxy less pain more movement today x


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## fififi

Thanks chocochine x

Glad your shoulder less painful today - hope it keeps on improving xxx


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## Sushi Lover

Hi girls,

Thanks for all the kind messages of support and good luck for my hysto. It all went ok thanks. The doctor removed some old white scar tissue and made some deep implantation cuts to get the blood flowing to my uterus again. Parts of it were pink and healthy, other parts with white with dead tissue. There was a lot of cobweb-like white tissue attached in places and floating around really?! This was close to my cervix and Penny thinks has been impeding the embryos journey to the main uterus cavity during egg transfer. Basically stopping them getting through. Rather like the door of a haunted house at the fair! Goodness knows why my consultant in Oct, who did my hysto then, told me there was no white tissue, all pink?! I specifically asked this question as well! So I'm now on estrogen and antibiotics for 10 days, then a collection of anti-viral, steroids and more estrogen until 6th of March. Wait for period then the IVF process starts again! Scan and bloods here, then fly to Athens on day 7. Already booked my apartment for the 11/12 days. DP will come out just for EC. Exciting stuff!

*Fififi*... you start your HRT drugs today right? Good luck for your scan on Friday. How are you feeling? Excited? Nervous? Happy Birthday for this week!!

*Mamochka*... good luck with your Athens visit and hysto... you'll be fine. Don't worry. I went alone and found the whole process refreshingly straight-forward, professional and stress-free. I was well looked after and still felt reassured with the personal touch in the hospital too.

Hello* Choco, Roxy* (we'll be in Athens the same time!!), *Lesley, Moomin, Debs, CoolJules, Altai, Salad, OlderMum, Hopeful, Chand*

xxx


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## deblovescats

glad to hear the news kirsty - hopefully your uterus will be totally receptive to the embryo! Good luck.
Hi to everyone else - hope you're all doing ok at whatever stage you're at.
AFM - I'm fine, morning sickness is still rearing its head, but it'll be worth it!
Just wanted a rant about media again - did anyone see the survey that was reported - asking 2000 respondents what age they thought women should not have IVF. Needless to say, the public contacted said 'age 40 for women, 43 for men.' they even had the nerve to say this should include private tx as well! I can't believe they can say this survey is what the public think - such a small sample, and how judgemental. we should then say no one should pay privatey for cosmetic surgery! If we want to spend the money, its our money and we can do with it what we like. After, we ladies over 40 are not able to get IVF on NHS anyway so it's not coming out of public purse. The survey mentioned mums over 40 might not see child into adulthood, well that applies to anyone, and as we tend to be more careful about health anyway at our age, there's every chance we'll still be around. Cancer, accidents and other illnesses can affect anyone of any age. Also, we have patience, experience, more secure finances, and educated, so can give a child  good upbringing. Obviously younger mums can do this as well. Statistically older, more educated mums are more likely to breast feed, although I know some young mums do as well. In the end, it's not the age that matters, it's how you parent. When you think of some feckless young mums, on benefits, maybe doing drugs/alcohol, not caring for children, makes you scream.
Feel better now got this off my chest! I'm obviously not saying one age is better than another, but I think society should stop making judgements against one section of society.
Don't know what you girls think?
Deb


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## CHOCOCHINE

hi debs i agree with you, its the parenting that counts. Did you see the show on tlc tv last night, it was the actress from coronation street who had a baby at 50, she had ivf donor egg in cyprus, i was hoping it would go into more of the ivf experience but it concentrated on the pregnancy, she was very positive for older women but she had health problems from being overweight and diabetic, so it wasn't suprising she got ill at 35 weeks and had an early c section. but i guess it got people debating.


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## artist_mum

*mamochka* hope all is going well with your visit and the hysto. hope you got together with arty pants too!

*kirsty* that sounds like a worthwhile hysto then! Glad it all went ok, and good to hear you are getting started. I wrote the wrong month, we are there 28 February for a few days. Then back for ET in early April depending on donor and hoping to fit in with school holidays. So not sure if we'll coincide or not. It would be fun to meet if we do - i met with another FFer last year and it was such a surprise - neither of us thought we would be as we were (if you see what i mean!)

*debs* Good to hear things still good with you, albeit a bit sick! Yes I agree. It's the judgemental attitudes that are difficult to put up with. You do see so much poor parenting around that it's hard to tolerate these people who cast aspertions on the basis of age when really love and good parenting seem to me to be the key requirements for bringing up a happy and well cared for child. I do worry as I am at the older end of the age spectrum, but I still think it is a personal decision and the real happy parents out there wouldn't judge - they_ know_ that being intuitive, kind and loving are the most important things. That said, I do imagine it's very tiring though!

*fififi* thinking of you with everything going ahead and hope all goes really well ready for next week - ET sometime then I guess?

Best wishes to everyone
Roxy xx


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - sounds like your Athens trip was worthwhile and hopefully with such a revamped interior your next cycle will mark new beginnings for you   

Deblovescats - glad you're still popping by. Morning sickness I don't envy but sure hoping I get to be in your position soon.
I seem to spend forever getting annoyed at supposed surveys of public opinion. Aside from asking so few people it's often people of a certain age too. Am sure if someone had asked me in my naive twenties what I thought I may have said same as 40 sounded really old. But, now as a forty plus I'm nowhere near as old as I'd have thought I would be! I still see myself as in mid thirties - major shock when realised I'll be 44 tomorrow! (Yikes!) Tis real shame I'm not 34 instead as that would sound lots better!!!!

Choco - how's the shoulder coming along?

AFM - day 8 of progynova (HRT) now and feeling much better than I did when just on DR medication. Though emotions still bit all over the place so I'm crying at absolutely anything. Quite nervous about lining scan on Friday - any spare wishes please send my way as really hope my lining thickening up. Plus I'll find out how donor doing so quite nervous about that too. In theory all going to plan her EC will be Mon/Tues next week.
It is weird experience having DE IVF as I constantly feel like I'm waiting for nurse to tell me it's time to start stims. When I went for a scan it was odd no one looking to see how many follicles I had.


Hope everyone else is doing ok. Hugs xxxx


----------



## mamochka

Dear ladies, 
I am in Mitera hospital waiting for my hysteroscopy with Dr. Meridis! More details and personals later. Good luck to everyone at whatever stages. Yes we met with Artypants and Sassy!

Xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Fififi*..... "Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday dear Fifi, Happy Birthday to you". 44 is definitely the new 34! Best of luck for your scan lining tomorrow...sending some positive wishes your way lovie. I bet you'll take a 8mm + lining over Valentine's red roses, chocolates and champagne any day!

*Mamochka*... Hope your hysto went ok. Dr Meridis did mine too.. absolutely no problems. You are in safe hands. Plus the nurses, doctors and even the men that push the trollies are so lovely and friendly. You get what you pay for in Greece that's for sure. Apparently the customer service for the Greek NHS is pretty poor! Let us know how you get on and what Penny says.

*Roxy*... ahh, I see. I'll probably just miss you in April then as my ET would have been done around the 28th March. That's a shame.. it's always fun to put a face to the name. Yes, I bet everyone looks different to how you imagine.

*Debs.*.. sorry to hear about the morning sickness, but I bet you'll take that any day right?! I saw the survey too and it made me so cross. The general public just don't know enough about what we go through and vote in surveys without knowing the full facts. More needs to be done on TV and in the press to make IVF more transparent, the reasons behind it and what the girls that undergo it go through.. emotionally and physically... to become mothers. It's still a bit cloak and dagger with a stigma attached to it,.... egg donation as well. Such a shame and a lot needs to be done to change people attitudes.

Hello to everyone else reading... bit worried about Lesley... haven't seen a post from you in ages hun? Everything ok?

xx


----------



## cornwall

Hi everyone,

I haven't posted for a while but I've been reading every day and keeping up with all the news.
Happy birthday Fifi and lots of luck with your lining and transfer.

Pleased to read lots of good news with babies, pregnancies and forthcoming cycles.

AFM: well, as some of you may remember, I had an m/c in August. I went back to Pedieos in December for my fourth DE IVF and................I'm now 12 weeks pregnant!!!!! Had my scan this morning and baby waved to me and DH  . Still can't quite believe it's real. Baby due in August so DH and I have a bit of time to adjust.

Lots and lots of luck to everyone still chasing the dream. 2014 feels like a lucky year.


----------



## RachelMaria

Congratulations Cornwall - you must be over the moonXXXXXX

Hope all you other ladies are doing OK?


----------



## Coolish

Oh wow Cornwall - congratulations!


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## fififi

Cornwall - that's fantastic news ... So pleased for you     
Thanks for birthday wishes too - though your news brought big smile to my day

Kirsty - thanks for birthday song
Yep, my romantic day is going to be legs akimbo at 7:30am with a probe rather than hunky man ... not quite same as any of tv ads are implying Valentines should be!!!! Would be wonderful to get good news on lining thickness ... and a chocolate for after my bloods!

Mamochka - hope hysto went smoothly & you feel ok tonight

Rachel - how's life with you?

Lesley - me too am worrying about you. Do hope you are just lying low rather than anything wrong   

Moomimum - how's life with you? Not heard from you in ages either


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## CHOCOCHINE

Thanks for asking shoulder is getting better everyday it hurts but I have better range of movement thsn before op already x
Fififi goodluck gor your birthday and legs a kimbo 
Cornwall congratulations
Mamochka hope all went well x


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## artist_mum

*cornwall* lovely news! many congrats. And happy rest of the pregnancy . It's really good to hear your news, and very heartening too xx

and Happy Birthday Fififi!

Roxy xx


----------



## cornwall

Thanks everyone.

Felt a bit embarrassed about posting my news as I know some of you have been on this journey for longer than me.


----------



## RachelMaria

Cornwall - don't be silly - really pleased for you honey XXXX

FiFiFi - I'm doing OK - have started to come to terms with the fact that it just isn't going to happen for me - have bad days obviously, but on the whole am coping pretty well - picked up a 5 month old kitten the other day from the local pet sanctuary - my first pet!!!!  Is no replacement, but I am loving the evening cuddles with her at the moment xxxxx


----------



## fififi

Rachel - glad you are in survival mode and doing "ok". Being unable to get pg is impossible to ever forget and equally hard to move away from.
New kitten sounds like a good distraction and fluffy cuddles are bound to help. Will continue to wish that bigger happiness comes your way soon     

Cornwall - echo Rachel's comment in that on this thread good news is ALWAYS welcome. My way of coping when surrounded by swarms of pg ladies is by thinking that they may be someone from ff. Terrible really but pg posts on this thread fill me with far more pleasure than ones by normal friends ever will.


AFM - so, so, so relieved as my lining is 8mm and triple layer so my baby hotel room is ready for occupancy. Now just got to hope my donor is coming along nicely and growing some wonderful eggs for us both   
My update on donor's progress was pretty limited, more or less zilch, but she's back for scan Mon so hopefully that will mean her EC is Weds. (Then I can spend night stressng about fertilisation!!!! Oh, how I hate the fact that ivf is stages of non stop worries!!!!)


----------



## Sue68

Hi ladies - I hope you don't mind me joining your chat. I am 44, eek!!

I just had my 2nd failed ICSI a couple of weeks ago and am going to try again in March.  I am taking CoQ10, royal jelly and Vit D.  I also had natural ivf this time round as it seemed regardless of drugs, fostimon etc., I still only produced 2 eggs.

Thinking about what I can do different next time, any tips? H and I agreed we would try with my eggs rather than donor and it it doesn't work we will have to step away.  I have 9 yr old from my previous marriage so my body should know what to do! 

 to all xx


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## Sushi Lover

*Cornwall*... absolutely fabulous news! Please don't be embarrassed. We are all so pleased for you.

*Fififi*... hooray! Great news about your lining. Have you done something different to thicken it this time? Or never really had a problem with it in the past anyway?

*Sue*.... Sorry you've had to join us. You'll find we are a friendly bunch though! Was your first ICSI a regular cycle with standard amount of stimulation drugs? Did you produce more eggs that time? Was the 2 eggs during the natural cycle? because that makes sense that only one or two will be produced at any given month. You could try the hormone supplement DHEA for egg quantity, but not necessarily egg quality. When I tried this (3mths before a cycle) I produced 20 eggs... still a BFN sadly though. Also you may wish to consider acupuncture and/or Chinese herbs to improve egg quality and lining. Although the jury is out on whether you can actually do anything to improve the quality. Doctors/experts disagree on this one. You could add high strength Vit E, Vit B complex (100mg), l'arginine, selenium, Omega oils (high strength DHA and EPA) to the mix as well. Although you'll be rattling!

*Rachel*... ahhh, that's lovely about your new kitten. What colour?

xx


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## Altai

Cornwall-fantastic news. Congratulations! 

Fifii - good luck with ur donor EC and fingers crossed for 100% fertilisation. 

Rachel- lovely to hear about ur little fury companion. 

Sue- same here, same age thou no children... yet. Sorry you had to join.
But that's great you can produce two eggs without any medication. 
I had mild ivf (which wasn't really that mild 150&300u of med) & had only 2 eggs.
I'm mostly following Heather Rodriques site natural fertility with regard to supplements, got  her self-fertility massage cd etc. I had acu till Nov last year but stopped as quite expensive.  Doing  weekly  yoga for relaxation instead. 
Agree with Kirsty - debatable whether you can do anything to improve egg quality unfortunately but worth trying.


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## CHOCOCHINE

Hi ladies I went to an open day with create yesterday, which was really interesting but has got me worried about my next stimms cycle. The great news is they will treat to 50 years and curently have 12 x 46 year old women pregnant and a 48 year old. For me she suggested mild ivf and completely questioned my current stimms cycle. What she said made sense that louise brown eas a natursl ivf and nowbthe trend in europe and scandivan countues to do mild ivf and just drug companies and clinics not wanting to be open 7 days a week. Obviously mild ivf safer for women etc better to get quality egg less numbers. It has completely worried me for my next stimms cycle I dont know whether to cancel. On one hand great to know I could try natural or mild after this cycle but i am scared the drugs affect quality of my old eggs but then stas wise the success rates are same with stimms or mild gor my age group. Anyone have experience of 450 menopur. I get 16 to 18 eggs on 300? I am happy with clinic but just worried re quality Of eggs but then they are already old! I have upped my supplements


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## fififi

Chocochine - it's so tricky when different clinics suggest such different options. Can't really help but wondered whether you could perhaps contact a UK clinic that offers natural ivf and see whether they would recommend that as an option for someone with your characteristics.
Does seem odd to me that your clinic is upping your menopur when you already produce plenty of eggs. I was on 450 menopur but only produced 1 egg when on lower amount and even with 450 only produced 4-6 eggs. From what my clinic told me the increase was to provoke stimulation and more eggs. They did say that it wouldn't effect egg quality when I'd asked about it naively thinking the increase would cause me to produce nearer to 20 eggs!
Hope you regain your confidence in whatever cycle you decide to do as PMA is vital   


AFM - my donor has over 20 good sized follicles so EC booked for Weds. It's egg share so whatever she gets will be split 50/50, with her getting extra egg if odd number. All very positive so far - just hope DH's sperm is all ok now! (Never ending list of worries doing IVF!!!)


Must dash as run out of buserelin due to extra week on DR and need to keep taking it until Weds now. Hi to everyone else xxxx


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Thanks great you have a date for ec so transfer will probably be saturday or monday? Hope she gets some great eggs for you both x


----------



## fififi

Thanks x


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## Salad4

Fififi - very excited for you.  Best of luck for EC & hope you had a lovely birthday.
Chocochine - its difficult to know which treatment to go for.  In the end I just stuck with a clinic and clinician that I felt comfortable with.
Cornwall - excellent news and your posting is very welcome!
Sue68 - I wish I could give you tips, but I have a completely random body that does not seem to follow any of the rules.
Rachel - a kitten sounds wonderful (although my cat would not appreciate me getting one!)
Hope everyone else is doing ok.
Has anyone heard from Lesley - we're thinking of you lovey - pop in when you have a chance.
AFM - my friend has a really good egg reserve.  Why is so much of this journey bittersweet - whilst it's great that she can be a donor for me, I couldn't help thinking why couldn't I have a great egg reserve.  And I spent a few days going round the roller coaster of emotions of donated eggs - worrying that the child wouldn't have a genetic link with me and my family that they will never look like my grandparents or parents or me, what it would be like if they look just like my friend, what if they want to live with my friend...on and on.  I think I've managed to settle the panic (which is what it is), but I'm sure it will come again and I'll work through it and find my optimistic head again.
Best wishes to all.
Sally


----------



## fififi

Salad - birthday was nice thanks
Good news that your friend can be the donor - but feel for you thinking of the unfairness of the situation.
Your worries about using donor are very normal. I was still really panicking right up until my cycle got going and those worries were taken over by my nerves of the cycle itself!!! Have you looked at posts on the donor egg section of FF? It's very reassuring to see lots of ladies have similar worries but later on the success stories all seem to have forgotten those worries and are totally focused on the joy.
When do you hope to start the cycle?

Sue68 - didn't manage success story using OE so can't really help you on that. Hopefully it will be your time irrelevant of what you do in next few months   

Kirsty - not had big lining issues previously but it's always been "ok" rather than great so was very nervous this time as had to DR for nearly 4 weeks as donor wasn't ready. I had acupuncture treatment specifically targeting womb lining, endo scratch on day I started DR, daily exercise in form of brisk walk for 20 mins, been eating "blood enriching foods" (or so it said on list I got from Zita West nutritionist!!!) - this included lots of spinach, green leafy veg, eggs, oily fish and minimising sugars & processed foods. Think that was it.
Looking forward to hearing your progress soon and really hoping 2014 is THE year for us all     

Hugs everyone else


----------



## cornwall

Thank you all for your lovely comments.

On the issue of donor eggs, I had no problem choosing the DE route. I didn't even bother tryintg with my own eggs as I was already 48 (now 50). As the first DE cycle loomed, I had a terrible panic and almost wanted the clinic to cancel. Now, I don't even think about it. I occasionally wonder what our baby will look like but I felt the same when expecting my other children. I'm just very excited to be pregnant and looking forward to meeting our little one.


----------



## deblovescats

Good luck fiffi & everyone else cycling.
Hope lesley is ok.
Congrats Cornwall - it's amazing news. 
AFM - I'm like Cornwall on this one, I did have doubts about DE and I did feel sad about not having a genetic link, but I was focused on the statistics and a desire to have a baby. I was 45 when I first started tx which was BFN, and jsut went straight for DE as odds were higher. This time, obviously a year down the line, I was comfortable with DE from the start and happily got my BFP. In 2012, I think it was also a disappointment that even with DE I didn't get my BFP. I'm really happy now and enjoying my pregnancy, and looking forward to meeting the baby, don't care about genetic link. I think the thing to remember, is it's us who's growing and nurturing the baby, at the end of the day, the egg is just a collection of cells, it's us who makes it into a baby! Got my 20 week scan next week and looking forward to seeing my little one (hope everything's ok).
Deb


----------



## fififi

I'm feeling very nervous tonight ahead of donor's EC tomorrow.
Hoping that there's a good number of eggs as well as hoping my DH sperm is good. All feels bit strange that tomorrow is EC yet I'm not involved. Am real mix of emotions including a sudden reappearance of sadness that the eggs won't be my eggs.
Any extra wishes/prayers for me extremely welcome!


----------



## mamochka

Fififi - best of luck hun! On the DE front i really liked the comparison on one of the epigenetic sites - embryo is only a blueprint and baby is like fully constructed house with all the construction materials sourced by you and all the change orders initiated by you!

Cornwall - congratulations!!!

Chocochine - i think you should trust your clinic, i completely cannot follow the logic how and why particular protocol is selected. And then i read a lot of Dr. Sher protocols and my head got completely confused, so i will go whith what Penny is proposing and just keep asking questions.

AFM - i am back from Athens with bag of medications and post hysteroscopy. If all goes well i will be starting OE cycle end of March.

Hi to everyone else!

xx


----------



## cornwall

Thinking of you today Fifi


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

mamochka - thanks i have booked some hypnosis for end of next week so i stay positive, must say i am confused too, goodluck with your cycle too, 
fififi - i hope all went well at ec, as soon as you have an embie onboard all will be okay, carrying your baby x  i wonder how many you are allowed to put back?
salad4 i understand but again it will be your baby xx
hope everyone else is ok x


----------



## fififi

Thanks for messages of support - I received 9 eggs from donor once they'd been shared. Embryologist expects about 70% of these to be mature leaving 6/7 good ones. Clinic expects about 70% to fertilise which should mean we will have 4-5 embies tomorrow. So long as we get 3 or more then clinic will aim for blasts & transfer Monday. (Chocochine- They prefer to just put one back but will return 2 if quality not good enough to freeze. Having lost twins on my last BFP cycle I'd prefer 1 good quality one on its own as we were given the impression that the demise of our first twin may well have caused me to less the second as well.)
Lots of extra finger crossing/wishing/praying appreciated as really don't want to fail at this point           

Chocochine - hope you are closer to making a decision as to which clinic & what protocol to go for. I have to day from the group of ladies I'm in touch with having DE cycle at moment not one of us has same protocol. Clinics do seem to choose something they feel works for them and if that maintains their success rates then it's obviously right for that clinic.
Hope hypnosis helps relax you x

Mamchka - hope you recover quickly from hysteroscopy and are able to cycle soon

Deb - how amazing that you're at 20 weeks nearly ... it's whizzing by from my end!!! Hope scan continues to bring good news. Will you find out sex or do you want a surprise?


----------



## Sushi Lover

Oh *Fififi*, that's great news! What a super number. It doesn't feel like donor eggs to me when I read your post... it feels like it's all you! Just because you weren't they for the egg collection, doesn't mean they won't be your embryos. They definitely are yours! How exciting. Let us know when you hear from the clinic about fertilisation. You must be nervous. I hate waiting for the call!

xx


----------



## fififi

After long night got call this morning to say 6 had fertilised so slightly better than average prediction. Will get update on Saturday and if all good will have ET Monday.
Am very relieved we have 6 - though a little disappointed as with my OE cycles we always got 100% fertilisation meaning that currently the amount of embies isn't really any different to when we've cycled before. In moving to DE had hoped that we'd have had nearer 8 embies so there wasn't so much fear they wouldn't make it to day 5.
Know that in theory the egg quality is better and so our chances of success are also higher but it's hard to believe that right now. Think the nervous waiting over last few days has left me feeling quite low and lacking the optimism I initially had. Plus it doesn't help that the embryologist has to ensure we understand the risks of waiting for a day 5 transfer so reminded me there's a chance none will make it that far. She said that average number to reach blasts is 30-40% so we should have 2 to transfer.
Just wishing the next few days away and hoping, hoping, hoping we get to ET        

Kirsty - thanks for your lovely post


----------



## Coolish

Fififi - those numbers sound excellent. I've done 5 de cycles and not all the eggs fertilize. I can't remember all the fertilisation rates we've had but each time I had at least 4 make it to excellent blast.This last cycle I think 8 fertilised and we had 6 excellent blasts, but this was Serum  It's not how many fertilize,  but how many progress well to blast. It's not the amount of embies, but the quality. Btw I had 2 embies implant and lost one at 6 weeks, but the other one is sat here in her bouncer! Good luck xx


----------



## fififi

Thanks CJ for your positivity - I think I'm just tired from lack of sleep last night and tension of cycle so far. Need to lose my worry head and remind myself of all the positives. It's hard when there's so much riding on the next few days.
Will return to trying to remember why I'm putting myself through this and fact that this go we've a 40% chance of success which is amazing compared with our previous starting points.
Enjoy your afternoon especially those warm snuggles with your LO


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

fififi - good luck six is great, just breathe, it will be ok, you have been on a very long journey and the train has almost arrived with your luggage xxx it will be easy from et xxx


----------



## deblovescats

fiffi - good luck on the embies. Just to say - it can happen, sounds excellent chances! On my failed cycles - I was disappointed - on egg share, got 8 but only 2 fertilized but both went to blast - both BFNs. On my last (successful) cycle, I got 12 eggs with egg share, all fertilized and 4 went to blast, so had one transferred (now growing in my uterus!) and 3 frozen so was happy with this. So it obviously depends on the donor as well, but your chances sound good! 
Good luck to everyone else who's cycling/waiting to cycle!
Deb


----------



## Salad4

Fififi - best of luck for Monday.


----------



## fififi

Thanks for good wishes

Got update today & 4 embies at right stage of development with other 2 behind. Embryologist focused on the 4 good ones and hopes that of these we can get 2 to blastocyst. (Average embryo fall out at my clinic day 3 to 5 is 40% so statistically we should get 2)
Transfer 11:30 Monday - wishes, prayers & general positive thoughts very welcome       


Hope everyone's weekend going ok.


Ps. I sent personal email to Lesley & things are pretty rough with her right now. I let her know lots of people were asking after her. Will update more once emailed again if she's happy for me to do so on her behalf.


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Fififi*... sorry I'm a bit late in wishing you luck for your ET today. I hope it went well. I pray you had your two blastocysts to transfer today and are now PUPO!!

That's a shame about Lesley... poor thing. I'll send her a little PM as well then.

xxx


----------



## fififi

Am officially PUPO !!!!!
After much deliberation we had 2 blasts transferred (grade A & grade C). Clinic given us 45-50% chance of success so very excited about that.
Quite nervous in case it's twins due to fact my BFP cycle was a twin pregnancy which I lost. Was very unsure about going for the two but since the grade C was not suitable for freezing it was either use it or lose it. We figured that were we to get BFN we'd really regret not having transferred both. So now hoping, wishing, praying that this was right choice and that we will get a healthy pregnancy with a happy ending.


----------



## Moominmum

Just a little peek here and to say *CONGRATULATIONS fififi* - I cannot wait to hear your updates!


----------



## fififi

Thanks Moom - how's things with you? Hope you're muddling through life ok


----------



## Sushi Lover

Woohoo! * Fififi*.... what great news. You've come a long way since deliberating about DE right?! Now you are officially PUPO and what a wonderful feeling that must be. I would have transferred two as well... I think you've done the right thing.

Can I ask.... have you already forgotten about the fact it's donor eggs? Do they officially feel like your embryos now?!

xxx


----------



## fififi

Thanks Kirsty x

Day of egg collection was weird and I must say I felt quite sad that it wasn't me having EC. When phone call came to say how many eggs there were it was almost as though they'd muddled me up with someone else. I didn't have any sense of it being "our" cycle at that point. That said I was really nervous over night waiting to hear how many embryos we had.
From the point of knowing how many embryos had fertilised they then became ours and I almost felt like my memory was playing tricks and I had had egg collection after all. The same level of nervousness whilst waiting for updates from embryologist was there.. At transfer yesterday I had no sense of them being someone else's - though that's probably due in part to fact that on our previous two OE cycles we'd got to blasts and had one good & one average embie remaining.
Right now I feel no different to how I did on my OE cycles so guess that's a good sign. Only slight hiccup came when I got text from my mum saying she hoped this grandchild would be a red head. I've red hair but donor is blonde so that's not likely to happen Which made me feel bit sad. Though having spent most of my teenage & adult life hating my hair colour & dyeing it realistically it's not a loss I'd feel in a non hormone drugged state! We've not told anyone we've used a donor as currently unsure we want to tell the child and to our minds it is important that no one but us know if that's something we go ahead with.

Not sure if all that waffle is helpful to you Kirsty but feels quite good to have written it down so probably helped me! I think this stage of treatment, especially since our donor did egg share hasn't really made any difference to number of embryos and how many made it to blast. Had we had a sole donor and got twice the number then that would be different and I think would have increased our positivity over last week. However if I get a BFP      then the reassurance of the egg being from a body 10 years younger will definitely help with my sense of positivity that we will get a baby at the end.


----------



## deblovescats

thanks salad.
Congrats fiffi - sending positive vibes your way! It can happen. I would have made the same decision about the 2nd embryo - otherwise you'd regret it. I had one transferred, as all four were Grade 1 and suitable for freezing. Like you, I think most of the time I've forgotten it's DE. I also haven't told anyone else either family or friends. I was ready to tell immediate family, but mum, sister and aunt assumed it was OE without me getting chance to say anything. As my aunt's only son and wife adopted two girls, she and my mother were talking about having a genetic grandchild. Didn't know what to say, so have left it at the moment. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter to me, but have doubts as whether to say something or not. I originally thought I'd wait till baby born then when all the attachment is established, to mention it, but now not sure. I'll have to decided later. I never meant not to tell them, but then events sort of took over! I think the fact that people not undergoing tx don't know all the statistics, make it really hard for them to grasp the fact that by using DE, you're increasing odds of getting pregnant.
AFM  - all going well so far. had my 20 week scan, and all looking good but unfortunately the sonographer couldn't complete the scan as baby wouldn't co-operate and change position. I got sent away to walk around and drink more water. No luck. So I have a further appointment next week to try and complete. So I feel relieved, but again, still have niggles as not got complete results. Sonographer also worried me as she said scan shows a low lying placenta so I'd be re-scanned at 32 weeks to see if it has moved. However, I'm already down for regular scans at 24, 28, 32, and 36 weeks due to my age/? BP. She gave me an advice sheet which said I could contact a midwife in antenatal clinic so rang her and felt more reassured. She said looking at scan, it's only slightly over cervix, and it's a positive sign, as most placentas move up in the uterus as baby grows and as it's not totally covering, it should move up. I can carry on as normal, just no heavy lifting, can go to aqua natal class, and no sex till scan at 32 weeks (ha ha - no fear of that at the moment anyway as I'm on my own!) If I met a man, that would be a bit of a downer though - 'can't have sex due to low lying placenta' - he'd run a mile! So I'm trying to feel reassured.
Good luck kirsty. I'm worried about lesley as well - will message her.
Deb


----------



## fififi

Debs - thanks for words of support. Making a decision at ET is hard cos so full of emotion and hormones before even try to consider the implications of what you decide. Both our doctor & embryologist were as split as we were and not able/willing to sway us either way. My clinic is pretty pro single embryo transfer so fact they were happy to put both back is reassuring.

Glad to see things still going well for you. Hopefully baby will be in more co-operative mood next week. Frustrating but on positive it means you get another chance to see your wonderful miracle.
Have you told hospital that you used DE or are the extra scans based on you as carrier rather than fact baby created with what NHS believe to be older eggs?
From what I've read about telling others about DE I think timing is very personal thing and what's right for some is totally wrong for others. Am sure the right opportunity to say something will arise.

On a lighter note - if you ever have a down moment & wished you had a partner you can officially blame your doctor. Even if you transformed into a super model overnight you'd still have to say "no"!!!    (Not  that I'm suggesting you don't look like a supermodel normally  )


With events over last week I've not had a chance to reply to Lesley's last email. I'm sure she'd welcome any other emails letting her know people are thinking of her.
It is a shame we aren't all in same area cos it would be so nice to meet up and talk in person and give proper hugs instead of these virtual ones.


----------



## ajw

Hello All. 
Sorry I've been absent for a while! Congrats on being PUPO Fiffi! That's great news 
I'm booked in for a DE cycle at Reprofit in March, so I might be picking your brains soon! 
What's happened with Lesley? Sounds bad, but I don't have time to read back through all the pages I've missed. Hope she's ok. 
Ajw


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## Coolish

*Fififi* - congrats on being PUPO - I think you made the right decision about the embies too. Now you need to think lots of positive thoughts and relax into being PUPO. I loved listening to Circle+Bloom and even bought the pregnancy relaxation set too.

*Kirsty* - those embies never feel like they are someone else's. My DD is the spitting image of my OH and all her facial expressions and temperament are me... oh and everyone tells me she has my eyes  This week she has started to look me in the eyes and smile at me - that's a real heart-melter 

*Debs* - my DD was completely stubborn at every scan I had - always looking away from the scanner. I ended up having 3 lots of 20 weeks scans as she just wouldn't play ball. Each time I had to go for a walk, drink something cold and sugary etc. On the last scan, the sonographer not only moved me about on the bed but also tried to shuffle my DD around! All I can say is that now she's here, she certainly knows her own mind and lets me know it 

*AJW* - good luck on your upcoming cycle xx


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## CHOCOCHINE

Congratulations fififi x
So I had baseline scan and due to start stimms tomorrow but have migrane due to finicial and work stress of my own business.  Should I delay stimms has anyone else felt this rough before stimms? I don't want to mess cycle up if not well


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## fififi

Chocochine - sorry to see you're feeling unwell & work hasn't been too good    
Not been so unwell day before tx but have delayed due to feeling unwell during week before. In my case I initially was frustrated by delay but when I did start following month I felt much more confident I was maximising my chances.
I think you should base your decision on how long you feel you are likely to be feeling this way. Are your financial & work stresses a result of an issue that's now passed or is it going to be ongoing throughout your treatment? Or even ongoing for foreseeable future?
There's the argument that it could be a positive distraction but only if you are sure you can give this cycle all it needs.
Hope not come across as too doom & gloom and remember that's just my opinion.


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## deblovescats

good luck ajw and choc
thanks jules and fiffi. I was upfront with the midwife at my booking appt and mentioned the DE as I knew it would have an impact on results of Downs screening. I was referred for shared care due to both my age and my medical conditions - I have well controlled asthma, and ? hypertension - none of doctors seem to be able to decide whether I have it or not, so just to be on safe side, Consultant wants me to have regular scans, as BP can have an effect on baby's growth. On my initial appt with Consultant, she just clarified about DE, but no one has made a big issue of it at all, so I'm relieved on that score. Although I think I made the right decision, I wouldn't like it 'being pushed in my face' so to speak. I was hoping to do aquanatal class again, but since my scan showing low lying placenta, I got a call from antenatal midwife who has spoken to a consultant and although there's no real reason in any research that they can find, they don't recommend any exercise with this. I'm gutted as I enjoyed my first session, but the main thing is that the baby is fine. Anyway, suppose it's a good reason to become a couch potato! 
Deb


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## ajw

Hi Louise, 
Before I was ready to move on to DE I went to an open day here in France. Several foreign clinics made presentations regarding OE and DE ivf and you got the opportunity to talk to the doctors afterwards. As far as I remember they were all from Spain and Czech Republic. They all seemed professional and gave similar advice and asked similar questions. The fact that they were affiliated to the French infertility organization that I'm a member of reassured me, as the association visit the clinics etc. 

I studied the statistics and the two clinics in the Czech Republic I was interested in (Reprofit and Gennett) had the same reported pregnancy rates as the Spanish clinics, but they were significantly cheaper and the waiting lists were shorter. Price €4500 excluding drugs / ultrasound for me. Once I had my short list I intended to visit two in CZ and two in Spain. 

I visited Gennet in Prague and Reprofit in Brno. Both were very professional, however I had a really good feeling about Gennet. Just a personal feeling of how they really had great attention to detail, wanted to know everything about my history etc, however the earliest date they could give me was in 7 months. 
At Reprofit they asked all the right questions and did an ultrasound and blood test free of charge while I was there, but it seemed a bit less personal. 
If both waiting lists were the same I'd have chosen Gennet, but I had to put emotions to one side and look at the facts. What matters in the end are the results. Both clinics achieve the same results, so I opted for Reprofit as they could offer me a cycle within two months (which is just enough time to fill out all the forms, get the drugs and do your Decapaptyl shot!)

Actually, going directly through the clinic it would have been longer, but there are a couple of agencies they work with who pre-book slots so you can have treatment one to two months sooner than the time quoted by the clinic. 

I was initially going to visit the Spanish clinics too, but was so happy in CZ I didn't see the point any more. 

I wanted to move quickly, as I'm sick of life being on hold. If you're more patient than me you might want to look at other clinics. I'd definitely recommend Gennet. 

I would also look at Serum, as there are lots of good things about them on here and I think they're cheaper than Spain too. 

Good luck and just ask if you have any more questions. PM might be quicker as I don't get on here that often!
Ajw


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## ajw

Thanks Deb
Oh, what a long struggle for all of us... Even when you have BFP you still can't completely relax. It must be so exciting yet worrying at the same time. All these scans and appointments, but I guess the more checks they do the better. Sounds like you're in good hands. Enjoy being a couch potato for a while. I could do with some of that!  
Ajw x


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## bernie1971

Hi Louise
I posted on this thread ages ago and now am a bit of a lurker...

Just my two cents on Instituto Bernabeu, in Alicante, Spain. I had a fresh DE cycle there and 2 frozen. All BFN. I am a rather difficult case, as you can see from my signature. I cannot say that I felt looked after at IB. They were not willing to investigate the reasons behind my repeated failures. Immunes were never mentioned, for instance. For one FET I suggested intrallipids, which they half-heartedly agreed to (still BFN, but I only had it once before ET). My general feeling is that IB are very good with relatively straightforward cases, but is not necessarily the best choice if you have had repeated failures. However - lots of women have been successful at IB, as you can see from the IB thread, so maybe they just found my case particularly uninteresting/annoying? 

Anyway, for all of the above reasons I have decided to give Serum a go. My fresh cycle done there in January was a BFN, so maybe it is me and has nothing to do with the clinics I choose... 

Cheers and good luck in your decision-making process 

Bernie


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## fififi

Chocochine - hope you are feeling better today and more able to decide whether it's best for you to start stims today or not    
Having read your post again wonder if it might also be case of last minute nerves. You've been through a hell of a lot over last few months physically & mentally. I'd guess the pressure to get this "right" is huge but realistically there's no right or wrong decision as this cycle is dependent on so many factors and you tweaking it to fit one of them only makes a teeny difference.

Thinking of you


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## CHOCOCHINE

Thanks ladies I spoke with clinic and they thought migrane is side effect of nasal spray and starting stimms will help , so I have gone for it, 450 menopur he we go


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## fififi

Chocochine - hope the menopur mixing goes smoothly (hated the mixing part as those pesky bubbles just out to cause trouble!!)
Wishing you lots & lots of luck with your cycle and hopefully you'll be headache free soon


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## fififi

Louise - yep, choosing a clinic is a tricky one. I limited myself to ones within an hour's drive and that was hard enough. Think DH would have abandoned me had I investigated ones throughout Europe! The good part is if you are able to go overseas there do seem to be lots of opportunities to try slightly different techniques/medication and from what I've noticed on FF lots of success stories too.
Am sure wherever you end up will be a good choice & hopefully the missing ingredient to your baby happiness.



AFM - hmmm the 2ww. It's only 3 days since I had ET yet I'm sure that in real world a couple of weeks would be over by now! Aside from the very slow passing of time I'm quite emotionally weak this time. I seem much more conscious of all that isn't quite right and that's not helped by fact me & DH really not getting on. We've had our ups & downs for while so it's not just the cycle but I'm finding it very hard how distant he is from it all. Am guessing its a defence mechanism cos he hadn't initially wanted us to do another cycle & keeps going on about how he's not prepared to go through "this" again if it doesn't work. He doesn't seem at all concerned as to how I am feeling. On the day of transfer he came with me but was quite put out by fact it was at midday & zoomed off to work immediately after, not coming home until gone 10pm. He has a pressured job but I'm struggling with fact he's not trying to even text or phone to ask how I'm doing. Wish I had someone local who knew about my tx & that I could go & see cos doing it alone when supposedly in a partnership isn't good at all.
Apologies for big me moany paragraph. Just feeling bit low & sorry for myself today. (Plus my body aches so much from the stupid gestone injections that I'm not even able to sit without thinking about tx!!!)
Need to find something positive to focus my mind on or at least something to switch my head off! Think I ought to get the ice cream out freezer & go watch a light hearted DVD or something.


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## Coolish

I also cycled at IB and they are fantastic if you are a straightforward case. They poo-pood my questions about immunes, hidden c, and intralipids.  They don't seem geared up to investigate problems or try new techniques until the techniques are established. For example thet are now doing intralipids,  which they didn't do 2 years ago. 

I'm a Serum success and can't praise them enough. They went completely back to basics with me and it worked, as you can see from my sig.

fififi - hang on in there.  Blokes are quite distanced from it as it's not really happening to them plus it's a defence mechanism. Try some relaxation mp3s. They really helped me . I can recommend circle+bloom . Mcphereson and zita west are also pretty good. It gives you some positive vibes and lets you really relax for half an hour.


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## fififi

Have Zita West cd & am trying to relax with that daily which helps. I'm pretty sure DH is just being distant as he's not wanting to get his hopes up. Makes it hard cos for these 2 weeks we need to get our hopes up & since not really got anyone else I can talk to about it feel bit abandoned.
But enough of me moaning - am off to watch Bridget Jones and lust over Mr D!!!!


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## Sushi Lover

Sorry to hear you are feeling low Fififi.  Men are funny creatures eh?  They really struggle with their emotions at times like these.  He's probably terrified it won't work again and is totally going into his shell/cave...  the old 'glass half empty' theory.  When yours is half full.  I think our men feel completely out of their depth and unable to 'put things right' with IF.  It's in their nature to fix things and solve problems...  protect their women-folk and just do something practical to solve the issue in hand.  But when it comes to IVF, they have no control, we have no control and it's panicky for us, let alone them!  They don't even have anything happening to their bodies as we do.  So they must feel totally hopeless.  Unfortunately, instead of sitting down and explaining all this to us and talking things through (as if!!)  they disappear into themselves, throw themselves into work, sport, seeing their mates etc.  Anything but being at home to offer moral support!  I think moral support is a woman thing!

Enjoy your dvd and ice-cream and try not to worry too much about him.  It's important to stay relaxed now and not get stressed releasing that cortisol into your blood stream Fifi.  Look after those embies snuggling in!

Whereabouts in the country are you?  Is there a 'Fertility Friend' close by that you could meet for a decaf cappuccino and a chat?

xxx


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## mamochka

Fififi   - I agree with Kirsty something outside the house for which you have passion for ..shopping/coffee/movie/show/museum that can absorb you for a few hours  . I am in West London if you are near.

I also had kind of a meltdown at midnight and could not fall asleep until past 4am i think - mulling over those last chance OE and what will i do if all embryos are no good chromosomally etc etc. DH is away for 1 month now and ironically we will meet only in Serum in April and then he will e there only for a few days. So will be by myself. And i really dont know which one is better - be alone or with not adequate support.

Kirsty, when do you start?

Choco, hope stim meds corrected the hormonal balance. Good luck with your follicles! 

Hi Bernie, you are also at Serum?

Have a good everyone!
Mxxx


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## bernie1971

Mamochka, yes I am at Serum. Doing FET next week, after a first failed attempt with fresh embies :-(.


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## vaninort

Yup, can identify all of what you are saying about our men. Mine has been less than useless through everything that has happened over the past two years and it has put a huge strain on our marriage (particularly the miscarriage where I really felt I had absolutely no one to turn to).

The two WW is just awful. I was this complete saddo who kept googling 'early pregnancy' symptoms all day long and hoping for a 'symptom' to appear which sadly never did  

Fifi - Mr D is a perfect remedy although I am sure he would have also been pretty useless if poor Bridget was going thru IVF.

V xx


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## Sushi Lover

*Mamochka*... actually, wandering around the lovely quiet and serene atmosphere of a museum sounds great. I always say I wish I had more time to visit the London museums... so the 2WW sounds like the perfect time! Poor you with your DH being away for so long and not being able to sleep... just a thought... are you taking Prednisolone? Whatever you do, take them in the mornings as one of the main side effects is insomnia. Still on my brown cyclacur until next Thursday. Then hopefully AF will start within 3 days, can start stimming and be out in Athens around the 16th/17th March. That's the plan anyway. Will you go later and we'll miss each other by a few days?

*Vaninort*.... You are not alone. I think everyone goes through similar stages with their other halves. Let's put it this way... if a relationship can survive IVF treatment, it can survive anything! Tremendous amount of pressure.

xxx


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## fififi

Me again!!!
Feeling little more sunny now having had time to de-stress & forget all the crazy thoughts in my head! Though bum still sooooo sore from the gestone injections I'm currently torturing myself with. (Well to date DH has been torturing me with but since this is creating huge rows every night I'm going to try and do them myself from now on. He doesn't seem to get that me wincing in pain then asking questions about how he's doing the injection isn't reason for him to take it as a HUGE insult and get angry with me!!! Grrrrrrr, if only I had a female partner it would make this stage much easier!!!)
Ooops was supposedly feeling sunnier!!!!!     

Thanks for everyone's words of positivity. Your support is appreciated more than I can say.

Kirsty & Mamocha - idea of getting out house & seeing someone is good. Unfortunately I'm in East Midlands - well, I say unfortunately but I'm sure it has its advantages for some things??!!!! But, it's too far from West London sadly. But, upon your suggestion I have posted a request on the East Midlands board in case there's anyone local. (Mind you if they read my recent posts they will all be too scared to meet such a loon!)
I've told work I'm not coming in this week (& in theory next week too). I'm a primary school teacher and it's very full on with very little time in my typical day to even sit down, let alone take it easy. I'm also wary of picking up germs/infections as the children, especially younger ones, aren't the best at covering their mouths. This in itself isn't a bad thing but it does restrict what I can do meanwhile. Much as I'd love to go have a facial or just a relaxing walk I'm worried I could run into a parent and it would be bit awkward to explain how come I'm off "sick" yet at a beauty salon! Contemplating going somewhere about 10 miles away but knowing my luck even that could be a disaster since I teach every child in the school so there's about 350 parents to avoid!!!
My other option is to meet up with friends but the reason they're at home is due to having young children/babies so that could work either way. My closest friend is currently at home as had her baby about 3 weeks ago but although I've been amazed at how together I've been about that to now I'm not sure she's best person to see this week. Especially since their baby was a "surprise" who they had no desire/intention of getting. (Stupid stork got the wrong street ... if only birds had a TomTom!) But, depending on how I survive the weekend I may well just give in and try and see someone if only to stop me talking out loud to my home appliances!!!!

Mamocha - wow that's tough not seeing your DH for so long. Is he in the army or something? Though hopefully your rendezvous in Athens will be romantic as well as the beginning of a new stage in your life.
The stress as to whether to go with OE or not is really hard. I think you need to keep going with it as long as you feel your clinic believes you genuinely have a chance. The odds are lower than DE at first but equally they increase as you move through the cycle and there's plenty of success stories. Changing your mind now will just lead to regrets and "what ifs" ... there is chance of success else you wouldn't be going in April. Have confidence to believe that your eggs have the potential and hopefully the right one will be collected   

Vaninort - wonder whether I should write & suggest to Helen Fielding the missing sequel to Bridget Jones where in order to get her kids with Mr D she has IVF? Am sure the chapter with Mr D having to produce sample on EC day would be far more entertaining than the reality!
Sorry to see you too have found tx creates havoc with your marriage. It is so frustrating that men & women are wired differently & seem unable to genuinely help each other at times of need. I found it very upsetting that during my MMC I was getting more support from a counsellor who I didn't know and only saw for half an hour a week than from someone who I'd been living with for over ten years. DH couldn't even understand how a friend announcing she was pg just two weeks later could make me feel upset - in his words "how does that affect whether we can have a baby or not?" !!!!
Just hoping that once we are able to move away from this torturous world we are able to start building our relationship up again. Even the simple ability to just meet up with friends for "drinks" would be good instead of always making excuses why we need to avoid alcohol and stand out as slightly odd.
Aggghhhh, done it again & started yet more moaning. More junk food required  

Right - am going to go and find my zen by having a dose of Zita West before I lose plot again.

Hugs to all -and big thanks for your support


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## mamochka

Fififi - glad you are feeling sunnier  My DH is business and last year was posted in Manila, Philippines, I also spent there 4 months and got really bored. Last November as we were waiting for our first scan he got an email saying he will be transferred back to London. So i stayed and he is just finishing there, as we are oth expats here, it is even more complicated with visas etc but thanks for asking 

Kirsty - brown cyclacur was on my mind all sleepless night. I sent an email to Penny asking whether it is possible to have two bleeds between now  (not now actually, my cyclacur is until next Wed and then when do i get my period i dont know) and end of March (this is when i wanted to start cycling). I am not on prednisolone yet.


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## artist_mum

*fififi* just had a quick read on here and its great to hear you are PUPO. Everything crossed for you. I can relate with the bloke stuff&#8230;  they can be a pain, that's for sure. Wishing you a calm and successful 2WW. Good luck xx

also sorry to read that Lesley is struggling. Wish I could offer a hug. Here it is if you are reading Lesley . Thinking of you xx

*kirsty* i know yours is coming up very soon. Hope you are feeling ready and that Penny does her magic for you. I'm off tomorrow at 5am hence the short post. Another hysto.. it all feels a bit unlikely but plodding on! xx

Apologies for no more personals, we are off to Serum tomorrow & still got the packing to do. Love to all xx


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## fififi

Hope hysto goes well & you get to enjoy bit of sunshine too xxxx


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## deblovescats

Hi everyone
Glad you're  feeling a bit better fiffi - it's such a stressful journey! 
Good luck mamocha and kirsty .... 
I think you're all great on this forum - such strong women and all deserve a positive outcome! We can all get there even though sometimes it seems impossible.
I do sympathise on the DH front - I suppose at least I don't have that to worry about! Sometimes it would be good to have a partner to be supportive (but then they don't always get our point of view!) I'm hoping sometime I do meet someone, but in the meantime, I've got LO to concentrate on.
Work's busy this week, but I need to try and take it slower (difficult in my job) especially when colleagues go off sick. I was booked to do developmental reviews all afternoon yesterday, had visits all morning, colleague was supposed to be doing them with me, but she had a migraine and was off - so had to do the lot!!!! Frustrating especially as I've been struggling all week with a cold and chest infection, but have dragged myself in. Glad it's Friday! I don't blame you keeping away from the bugs fiffi - everyone seems to have one!
Deb


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## CHOCOCHINE

Fififi glad you are feeling brighter reallly hope things work out for you x
Day 3 of stimms and had hypnotherapy feeling relaxed and postive x


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## hopeful68

Hi All, long time no post and you must have generated around 10 pages since I last popped by!! So sorry for no personal comments but too much to catch up on although a skim showed some positive news for various people so congrats of BFP, PUPOs, treatment plans and general positivity!

I have been hiding away continuing my course work - 2 more modules to go, will be glad to see the back of it all now!! especially as this is all done around shifts and in my own time including leave!!

Had a few weeks feeling 'empty' after my dog was put to sleep (now having dreams about getting another one!!). then had some news that my Grandfather has about 18months left due to a newly diagnosed lung cancer. 2014 is really trying to start with a bang but if I can get over the no kids dilemma with all its emotional turmoil and marital strain, I can beat 2014!! My grandfather is drawing up a bucket list of places he wants to go and things to do, so I have of course offered to go as a bag carrier and carer!!! I gather Prague is first on the list!

Been hectic at work but still get the feeling I have been kicked in the stomach when I go out to new kids, or the houses teaming with young kids  and a stroppy, ignorant, ungrateful mum. some people just don't recognise their blessings!

Have been doing a 5:2 diet which for those not on treatment is the most awesome diet I have ever done and it works, and not just for the weight loss benefits but overall health benefits, highly recommended. in summary eat normally for 5 days a week and pick any 2 (e not necessarily back to back) to eat just 500 calories. loosing 1-2Lb per week!! nearly back to pre IVF weight!!- and generally feeling pretty good in my physical health-self! (still working on other mental state health issues!!  - such a big hangover from treatment, no one warns you about that before you start!).

Anyway I have an hour or so before I am off to work so need to start getting ready. will be popping in occasionally but in the mean time good luck to everyone still pursuing the dream..... for those who are not, I hope you find inner peace and strength to get you through.

M


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## Altai

Hi ladies,

Lots of catching up to do since I popped here last time.

Hopeful -  sorry to hear about ur grandad. The whole journey is stressful as it is but to have all those sad news on top,  makes even harder. stay strong girl. 

Choco - hope ur  cycle goes well. wondering about hypnotherapy. Where did u do it? Though more interested if they do cd. I've couple of relaxation cds but think hypno would be  stronger boost. 

Deb - take care of ur self & little human being. 

Mamochka, Kirsty, Bernie, Artist mum- good luck with Serum.  Hope P will work out her wonders on u. 

Fififi, Vaninort  - sorry to hear ur OH not being supportive.
But honestly, not sure whether doing it on ur own is easier.....
Afm - still debating which clinic. Am now ttc with coparent, not sure I could drag him to Greece. ...

Lots of hugs & love to all I missed in post


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## artist_mum

hi

quick post - serum visit brought bad news.. hysto showed things were worse than in the previous hysto.  Diagnosed Ashermans Syndrome = loads of scar tissue in uterus.  He has cut it away and put in a IUD which I get removed here. Loaded me up with oestrogen (and the usual bulk load of meds!) and hoping it will heal and stay healed for a last go transfer in April.

fififi - hope you are staying chilled and that your man is behaving!  thanks for your wishes, it was indeed sunny and one good thing that came of it is that we had a lovely weekend together after the hysto and a nice walk/picnic lunch in Athens before flying home.  ANyway, good to hear you are off school - i just started as a TA and now have complete and utter respect for all primary teachers!!!  Never a dull moment that's for sure  

hopeful - lovely to hear your news, and it will be great when you get a new pup    Sorry to hear about your grandad, i hope you two manage to grab some time together.  It's good to hear you have been taking care of yourself - i heard about that 5:2 diet, seems pretty popular

altai - good luck with the clinic choice.  i must say serum have been great with me but it's your own gut feel i suppose in the end

hi everyone else, sorry not to mention names again.  I'm feeling really pretty down about our situation.  what a roller coaster this continues to be.

Stay sane - especially all you guys in the middle of your treatments and wishing you all  

Roxy xx


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## mamochka

Roxy - so sorry you are feeling down!   What is the prognosis? Does scar tissue come back or are you rid of it now? Must be freaking hidden C 

Altai - good luck with your decision, let's catch up soon

Fififi, Choco, vaninort - hope the cycle are progressing and you are relaxed

Hopeful -   

Kirsty - how long are you staying in Athens?

AFM - had a change of plan from Serum: will continue on brown cyclacur and delay AF until needed (around 23-24 march)

Mxxx


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## Coolish

Roxy  - although it's not the news you'd like at least it's been diagnosed and hopefully dealt with. Hopefully all that oestrogen will let it heal without any scarring. The hospital and the docs are amazing in Athens and really know what they are doing xx BTW April is a lucky month - that's when I cycled at Serum


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## Sushi Lover

*Roxy*.... sorry to hear about all the scar tissue they found during the hysto. So all the oestrogen will stop it from coming back again right? As Jules said, at least they've found something to treat and to make your uterus the most hospitable place it can be for your April transfer. I wish you so much luck. It would make me feel down too. Try to think of it as 'a means to an end'... you have to get through this horrible stage to give yourself the best shot ever next month. 

*CoolJules*.... loving the pic of your little one! Hope you are doing ok.

*Fififi*... how is the torturous 2WW going? Hopefully you are bearing up. Did you find an East Midlands buddy to have a coffee with? If only we were all closer! When is your OTD?

*Michelle*... so sorry to hear about your Grandad. I still have one left and love him to bits, so I can imagine how terrible it would be to hear such news. They've been through so much in their lives. Things we couldn't even imagine. As for the 5:2 diet... I have heard so many good things about it and apparently it really does work. What do you eat on the '2' days ?

*Mamochka*... I'll be there about 12 days I reckon. I think that's usual for OE cycle.

*Altai*.....I'm intrigued about your situation of 'TTC with a co-parent'. How did that come about?

*Choco*.... best of luck with your cycle... Have you had your first scan yet?

*Debs*... glad your pregnancy is progressing well. Gives us all hope like Jules' story.

Hello *Vaninort, Bernie, Lesley, Louise, ajw, Cornwall*... and anyone else reading....

*AFM*.... On my last few days of Cyclacur pills after my hysto in Feb ... so will stop those on Thursday, wait for AF, get my scan done here and then start stims! Hope to be in Athens around the 16th .

xx


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## artist_mum

thanks for your comments, it's always the 'over thinking it' that gets to me. Like all of us on here I guess. Ashermans is usually caused by D&Cs but i have never had one so yes, it may be from infection (hidden c or something). The coil he has put in keeps the walls apart to allow healing without more scars and flooding it with oestrogen should help with that too. You're right about the surgeons *cooljules* i really felt i could trust this guy so I just hope against all hope that it will heal and give us this chance in April. Thanks for writing in, and as kirsty says doesn't your LO look sweet in that pic! xx

*kirsty* i'm running about 2 weeks after you, just started cyclacur on sunday. I'm hoping for you, really hoping on this one. Take care of yourself next few weeks  xx

Got to dash,

 to all. Wish we could grab a coffee and a real chat, now that would be lovely

xx


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## deblovescats

thanks altai and kirsty
Glad to hear from you hopeful - I think you're so strong. So sorry to hear about your grandad! It's heartbreaking.
Lesley - hope you're doing ok.
Good luck kirsty and fifif
Sorry about your scar tissue roxy - but hopefully it can be sorted, at least you know what could be causing problems in ttc.
AFM - I'm doing fine, sickness has settled. Had a further scan today to complete the one last week where LO would not co-operate. I was so relieved - everything looks fine and on target for dates. Everyone at work is so excited! 3 weeks - got a glucose tolerance test to check for diabetes, a growth scan and consultant appt - so v. busy, but all worthwhile. Sonographer said LO is a wriggler and very active! She had a student with her, so asked if student could sit in to observe. I was fine with this and it also meant I got to hear a very detailed discussion about LO as she was explaining what to look for in detail. She then asked if student could have a go with scanner so of course, I said fine. She was v. gentle - not pressing hard enough to get clear picture! She was scared of hurting me or LO, bless her! 
I'm so keeping everything crossed for you all, at whatever stage you're at and I hope it gives hope that it can happen! 
Deb


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## ajw

Can't believe how quickly the time is flying Deb! So happy for you. Seems two minutes since you found out!!
Roxy, I agree that it's positive that they found something.  What I can't cope with is when they say everything is alright, but you still get a BFN... 
Afm, starting estrogen pills on Friday and hopefully here about my doner next week  . Starting to get nervous about Reprofit though.  I'd heard so many good things about them, then in the past two weeks I hear of two BFNs. One a close friend  
Ajw


----------



## fififi

Hi all,

Ajw - lots of luck with your cycle ... don't worry about those BFNs as everyone & every cycle is different. Yours may well be start of a load of BFPs   

Debs - glad you finally got baby to cooperate with scan. Pleased your hospital sounds like they are taking good care of you. What due date do you now have? Have you decided when you'll start maternity leave assuming all stays as it is now for you?

Roxy - sorry to see you'd had rough time of it and yet another complication. But as others have said in a way finding something that's potentially a barrier to you getting pg is in a way a good thing. Hoping the treatment is successful and you will be ready to cycle in April with perfect uterus   

Kirsty - not long now!!!! Are you feeling excited? Hope your AF comes as planned & your new journey can begin  

Cooljules - how are things? Is that beautiful girl of yours behaving herself? (Since my request to "the gods" that anyone getting pg via fertility tx should be given a much shorter pregnancy than anyone else seems to not be happening my new suggestion is that after years of TTC we should at least be blessed with a very well behaved child when we do finally reach that point! Mind you, when I got my DD after first 5 years of this madness I was so pleased & besotted she could have had a swivelling head for all I cared!)

Mamochka - hope things progressing well & you are doing ok

Hopeful - nice to hear from you. Sorry about your Grandfather's diagnosis - hopefully although your time together is going to be limited it will be time well spent and you will gain from the closeness   

Lesley, Moom & anyone else I've missed - hope things going ok xxx

AFM - just over half way through 2ww and not doing great. OTD is Sunday.
Feeling really low & despondent these last few days. Just want to curl up in bed. Have shed more tears than normal and really struggling to feel any positivity. Nothing has brought this on as such but I think my total lack of symptoms or any sense of fact I might be pg is getting to me. I have tried extra relax time, listened to Zita West and have baked enough to feed my town for next week, let alone my family!!!
Think it's hitting me harder than normal cos having gone into this cycle with higher expectations the fact it might not have worked seems that much worse. I know it's not good to feel like this and I am honestly trying my hardest to find light at end of this dark tunnel but it's tough!
Sadly no one local to me replied to my invitation to meet up so that was no use. I decided to be brave and spent yesterday afternoon with friend & her newborn. Figured I was best doing it whilst there was still some hope inside me. Plus I wondered if cuddling baby would help send good vibes through to my uterus!!!!
Apologies for moan - feel little better for writing it down so at least having you guys to talk to helped even if none of you are able to locate a wand to magic my happy ending!


----------



## deblovescats

sorry you're feeling down fiffi! 
Don't give up. I didn't get any symptoms at any of my 3 attempts - the first two were BFNs and the 3rd was my amazing first BFP! I was trying to guess but I really thought the last attempt hadn't worked as I didn't feel pregnant! Some people get symptoms, some don't. THe last time as well I tested early (couldn't bear the suspense) and I like to be prepared, so if it hadn't worked, I would have know. Anyway - bad move, tested early on the Wed, when OTD was Sunday - got BFN, then tested Sat - BFP! So you just never know! 
I'm keeping everything crossed!!!! You so deserve a positive outcome - everyone on here does!
Deb


----------



## fififi

Thanks debs   

Am in better place today - think I needed to let some of the emotion out. It's been a long & stressful time getting this far - I started the meds just after Xmas - so think I'm just exhausted in every sense. Keeping busy today & will do my best to regain my PMA.


----------



## Coolish

Fififi -no symptoms either for me during the 2ww for my bfp...


----------



## cornwall

I just had a bit of cramping for about an hour, probably around implantation time when I got my BFP. I had loads more cramping when I got my BFNs.
Stay positive Fifi. We're all with you


----------



## mamochka

Fififi - try to keep up the PMA and do something really nice for yourself - i am not sure if massage is allowed, maybe facial or pedicure


----------



## fififi

Thanks everyone - really appreciate your support xx


----------



## artist_mum

hang on in there *fififi* - you're right about having so much going on for so long.. that this last bit is really a push. But it sounds like you got your PMA back today a bit. How about some feel good/funny films? I watched 'The Guilt Trip' on my last 2WW and it really made me laugh. I went off to the cinema with a neighbour in the middle of the day - a bit of escapism and a good giggle. Whatever you do, keep your chin up! We ARE all with you xx

*ajw* i understand what you mean about having something/a reason for why it didn't work and realise it's hard if they just don't know. To be honest, until i was 45 that was the case - and now suddenly all these reasons popping up! So yeah, i understand the frustration but in a way, it just means you can go straight in and get the bfp - no reason why not! please don't worry about the recent bfns at your clinic, it all just seems so random in the end - you can be their latest bfp  Good luck with it, and hope all the donor info is good next week, that's really exciting. xx

*debs* I still feel all smiley when i read about your progress, funny that! It just does feel like one of us  Take care of yourself xx

*kirsty* hope AF comes along in an orderly fashion! I met Zuri out in Serum at the weekend - i think you may be out there at the same time as her. It's lovely to meet up and actually chat face to face, hope your trip all comes together for you xx

hi to *cooljules*, *moomin**lesley, mamochka, cornwall, altai, hopeful, cocochine* and anyone else reading!

AFM I feel like the biggest challenge to me getting pg is in my head. Years of fearing that i wouldn't. I was wondering about hypnotherapy or acupuncture - can't afford both. Has anyone tried hypnotherapy? Or some other way to get in the right head zone? Or you guys who are pg now&#8230; can you think of anything that changed in your attitude? Just wondering..!

 to all
Roxy xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Fififi*... lots of positive stories re no symptoms with a BFP!... so I hope they are keeping you going. We are all rooting for you. You really deserve a happy outcome after all you've been through.

xx


----------



## fififi

Have been re-reading the BFP comments before bed and am trying my hardest to believe.

Such a roller coaster of emotions. Do think it'll be a rich lady/man who invents a way to switch ladies on 2ww off so that they have a deep sleep and are woken in time for test day. Or, even better, they are awoken if they have already tested positive so that it's a definite BFP when they test. If body not responded as should have done they are hypnotised so unaware ever been through IVF and therefore don't end up feeling so rubbish!


Hope everyone else doing okay - lots of people edging close to tx now


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Fifi*... it would have to be a woman that would invent such a thing! Men wouldn't see the point!

Love the idea of being hypnotised if it hasn't worked 

xx


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

fiffifi not long now, positive thoughts
artist mum, the hypnotist was a friends dad, but he works with top sports men and women and usually charges a £1000 but gave me a 2 hour session and a made me a personal cd for free, well for a bottle of whisky! so kind, it really is relaxing.

i keep forgetting my nasal spray so i am worried i have messed up this cycle, i also haven't been great about protein and my shoulder hurts, but day 10 scan tomorrow x

good luck everyone x


----------



## fififi

Hope scan goes well tomorrow chochine


----------



## artist_mum

thanks re: the hypno, that sounds great to have seen him *cocochine* hope scan has shown good progress x

Good luck with the next couple of days *fififi* wishing you great PMA  x


----------



## Sushi Lover

Just a quick post for *Fififi* .... I am saying lots of prayers for you for Sunday  Best of luck honey. We are all thinking of you.

xxx


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

fiffifi, really hope this is your time, good luck for testing

so i had scan and i am booked for ec on tuesday, last day of drugs tomorrow, drug free day monday


----------



## Louisej29

Fififi-  loads of luck.  Fingers crossed for that bfp xxx

Ajw and bernie- thanks for your messages on my de dilemma -

Choco- good luck for EC on tues and enjoy your drug free day. 

Debs- hope all going well with pregnancy. 

Kirsty- helloo , hope you're ok, nearly time for for Greece! 

Hello to everyone else as well. Hope everyone doing ok xx


----------



## Salad4

Good luck tomorrow Fififi.


----------



## mamochka

Fififi - you will be in my prayers tonight


----------



## fififi

Thanks for words of support - it really helps knowing others are thinking of me.


----------



## fififi

Bad news for me - BFN
Feel numb & empty. Had been waiting to do this cycle since April when went on to donor list. So many hopes & dreams now lost. Unlikely we have money for any more & guess I'll just have to find way to accept that's it.
Fed up of life dealing me such a rough deal & had stupidly believed this cycle would be the one.


----------



## bernie1971

Fififi I have mainly been lurking on this thread but I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone, we all know how you feel. Lots of love and the pain WILL lessen... xxxx


----------



## Louisej29

Fififi

I am so so sorry.  Truly gutted for you.  Sending big hugs xx


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

So sorry fififi x


----------



## Salad4

Oh Fififi. That sucks and is so truly unfair. Sending you big hugs and love over the internet. Sallyx


----------



## Moominmum

So sorry to hear Fififi


----------



## artist_mum

so very sorry *fififi* Huge  xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Oh *Fifi*.... no, no, no! I just can't believe it. I was so hopeful for you on this cycle. Life is truly unfair.

We pin so many hopes on DE, after OE cycles not working and sometimes that doesn't bloody work either!.. it's just cruel. If only we could find a way that has a 100% success rate ...

I'm really feeling for you and just wish I had the words to console you. Makes me really, really cross this infertility cr*p !!

You are not stupid to believe this cycle would work and be the one. We only have to look at our other friends on this thread to know it can work... like Debs and Jules. Why should you be any different? It's just not fair hun. I'm so sad for you 

xxx


----------



## mamochka

Fififi - I am very upset with your news   and Kirsty put very right, you put all you hope into DE and still. I hope you are being kind to yourself, no hasty decisions and time will show what to do next.

Kirsty - I probably asked you before but when are you flying to Athens in March?

Choco  - good luck for tomorrow!

Love to all other ladies here

Mxx


----------



## fififi

Thanks to you all for your lovely comments. Your support over these last few years has been invaluable. Your words acted like hugs last night.


I've told the few people who I physically come into contact with who knew I was having treatment & their "that's a shame" comments really are no help. I don't want to just return to "everyday life" and act as if this didn't matter. The view from people around me seems to be that I should just accept that it's not to be - but they've no idea how hard that is. If only I could stop thinking about wanting a baby. Oh, and just to top my BFN day off one of my sisters gave birth to her third baby yesterday afternoon! Life really does hate me right now!


----------



## Coolish

Fififi - so sorry to read this today. You need to take some time to be nice to yourself and see what direction is best for you and your DH. Have you had a HCG beta to see if implantation was attempted?


----------



## ajw

So sorry Fifi. Can't sum it up better than Kirsty. Just so unfair. 
Don't expect those not in our situation to understand. They don't mean to be heartless, they just can't understand how heartbreaking it is if they've never been in this situation. Take your time to let it sink in and think about where you want to go from here. Don't rush things.
Ajw x


----------



## RachelMaria

Fi Fi

I am so sorry - you are not stupid at all to hope that this might be the one and I know nothing I say will make it any better - just wanted to send you some hugs


----------



## artist_mum

*fififi* i so know what you mean about other people not understanding the depth of the pain that you feel. I think they have just never had cause to stop and consider how devastating, really the ultimate devastation for a maternal woman being denied the baby she wants to love and nurture. It must be the cruelest part of nature - to create a woman, then give such obstacles in the way of having a child. And by now, on FF, i know that it makes no difference if it is a first or second child - when it is a child that you want. Having to watch others, especially close family, bringing babies into the world is just awful at this time - my heart goes out to you.

As an artist, I feel i need to do something to communicate this wider than FF where we share and understand each other's pain. The wider community is more open these days to how other marginalised groups feel; for those of us undergoing such difficulty, it would be helpful to have at the very minimum an acknowledgement of our distress over and above 'that's a shame' or worse, 'why don't you just stop wanting it'.

Nothing much helps right now except for going day by day forwards and perhaps harbouring the beginnings of a belief that something else is to come.

xx


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

so sorry fififfi, i want to tell you not too give up, but i know how hard finicially and emotionally each cycle is, i really thought with donor eggs it was a done deal, so sorry x


----------



## deblovescats

fiffi - I'm so gutted for you. I so feel for you, and I know we all do on here. I was just so hoping that this would be your time. I always thought that using DE was a more surefire way of success when OE hadn't worked out. Realistically and statistically I knew that it still wasn't 100 % but I was devastated when my first two attempts with DE didn't work. I suppose you always wonder whether it is an issue with the DE. I'm so grateful to have been lucky on my 3rd attempt, but so devastated for all you wonderful ladies for whom it hasn't worked. Fiffi - you need to take your time to get your head sorted, be good to yourself and don't blame yourself. Then recharge your batteries and decide your next direction. You so deserved a good outcome. 
It really frustrates and angers me that I see all sorts of useless mums and dads in my job, who are so lucky to have kids, but don't deserve them, and then on this forum, there are so many wonderful would be mums. Life is just so not fair! 
Deb


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

So 5 eggs I am calling them the famous five, worried as I normally have 16 to 18 eggs. Just hpoe they make it, hope they are quality probably day 2 or day 3 transfer. Will keep u oosted x


----------



## hopeful68

fififi - been following and not posting much but saw your news. SO sorry. I was hoping for you that the switch to DE would provide your wish to be a mum. I cant say anything you don't already know or hasn't already been said by others. take some time out though and then start working out how to process this. I get to thinking I am at peace with my fate and something comes along to kick me in the teeth and remind me I cant be a mum. I don't think we can ever 'get over it', it isn't something you can get over but I think of it more in terms of learning to cope and adapt - it takes a while, a long while. BIG hugs. available for PMs if needed!!

Hi too everyone ese.
M


----------



## artist_mum

*cocochine* how many times have we read on here 'it only takes one'?! Hope one of those famous 5 is the one!! Fingers crossed for you next few days x


----------



## fififi

Chocochine - the famous five tend to be good at surprises so really hope this is their best adventure yet


----------



## fififi

Thanks again for everyone's support - just reading your words has helped more than I can explain.

Am going to have a bit of time out - if I can just get silly brain to stop whirring!
Have booked review for 6 weeks time & unbeknown to DH asked to be put back on DE register. The waiting time at my clinic has suddenly got much longer (12 months compared with 3-6 this time last year) so I figured I'd nothing to lose by going back on the list. Plus if it's a year until I get a match perhaps we might have a chance of getting funds together - though that really will have to be the end as close to £40000 already & we are at limits to what can borrow against house.


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

wow fiffifi - i spent 20K, ivf soon adds up!!goodluck

so out of the five, 3 fertilised and i am having a 2 day transfer tomorrow of all 3. bit nervous of qualility but they are probably better back in than out!


----------



## mamochka

Fififi - good luck with your break. Just so that you know and money comes around - in Serum there is no waiting list, price for DE is 5000eu+ plus meds and you can consider it a holiday trip (apt for 17 days 760£ and ticket 200eu).

Choco - I am routing for you, my friend had two eggs retrieved, both fertilized, one stuck at the age of 40.5   .

Sorry for lack of personal but in the airport after mad reps king and paying for overweight. In route home and then Greece on the 30th!

Mxxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Fififi*... just wondering how you are honey?

It's frightening when you add up how much money you've spent isn't it? We've spent about 40k as well. Hideous. Nothing to show for it either... I know exactly how you feel. If someone said to me 3 years ago before I got on this IVF rollercoaster "give me £40,000 and I'll guarantee you a baby"... I would have told them to bugger off! Far too much money. But now, I'll take that with no hesitation!

Have you thought about going abroad as Mamochka suggested? The £5,000 Serum charge is much more do-able than UK prices and the no waiting list is a definite positive. Or look for a clinic that has a UK satellite centre. Gennet in the Czech Republic, for example, have a centre in London. I know that's inconvenient for you geographically... but could there be other clinics in your area that have an affiliation with one abroad? It means you can have all your scans here and then just go out for ET. In fact, even with Serum you can have your scans and bloods in the UK and then just go out for a few days for the transfer. DH's sperm can be frozen during your consultation so he won't even have to go for EC. Worth having a think about it?

Take care hun. I won't bore you too much with my cycle, but having been set to go to Athens on Monday a spanner was thrown in the works yesterday with a terrible baseline scan result. Only 4 follis?! In a total panic and have now postponed things for a week to see if the oestrogen in the pill I was taking after the hysto has messed up my cycle. There is always something. Penny thinks my ovaries have suppressed too much! Usually have at least 10 follis on my antral follicle check  I really don't want to start my stims starting off with only 4. I know more can pop up, but it's not guaranteed and I really don't want to waste my last OE try.

xx


----------



## fififi

Chocochine - hope ET went smoothly today & you're now PUPO    
Our thread is definitely due some good news so am rooting for you to be the one to make us smile in few weeks     


Kirsty - sorry to see your scan wasn't great. Bet you're feeling really frustrated. Though I do agree with you that will be better off delaying a month if your antral follicle count stays low. When so much is at stake waiting a month or two is worth doing. But hopefully your scan next week will show an improved result    
When I did OE cycle with long protocol my body got too switched off and even after loads of maximum dosage stims only managed 1 egg. A few months later with less stims I got 6 so even with my low numbers the difference was huge.

Yes the cost of tx is scary. Like you I'm sure I wouldn't have paid £40000 up front for guaranteed baby but now I'd find another £40000 if it meant I actually was able to get a real life baby!
Did consider overseas but being in the fortunate position of having a DD already it's tricky enough sorting out child care for few hours let alone a week. Plus my job has no flexibility regarding holidays so it would be limited to August when I know several of the overseas clinics close. Saving money would help but I'm not sure the difference with flights & accommodation is that much of a saving on just the one cycle. The plus would be getting more eggs as I think most overseas clinics give you an exclusive donor for cost of shared one in UK. So you're likely to get frosties which if cycle fails means a subsequent cost of nearer £1000 compared with starting again.
Having discovered the sad reality that changing to DE isn't the golden ticket I'd hoped for if I was to be able to reverse time I think I'd have looked into exclusive donor a bit more. But what's done is done so just got to hope one day I understand why and meanwhile I can find a way forward. (Even if I can win DH round it won't be until at least a years time that we'll have saved up enough again.)


Hi & hugs to everyone else


----------



## Louisej29

Fiffi.  Just popping on to see how you are doing. Hope you are coping ok.  Like you, I always assumed de would be the golden ticket , so it must be even harder when it doesn't work.  Life is just soooooooooo unfair. Hope you still get your natural miracle. 

Kirsty.  Wishing you so much luck in Greece and hoping to hear good news! Will chat on what's app whilst you are out there! 

Choco- how are you getting on ?

Debs. Hope the pregnancy is going well

We are still undecided on next steps.  Totally drained and weary of this journey now and life having been on hold for so many years- will be carrying on but not sure at which clinic now.  We can't afford another go in a top London clinic so probably overseas now. Not sure how I am going to swing the time off work but will worry about that at the time! 

Hope you are al doing ok, lots of love to everyone. Xx


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Fififi do sad it didnt work for u, I really hoped de wa the key, hope you can rest this year and have a positive experience next time and you louise x
Just waiting and trying not til test, or worry xx


----------



## fififi

Thanks for words of support Chocco & Louise   

Chocco - not long until OTD now. Hoping you get good news & sending lots of positive thoughts your way to help you through these last few days    

Louise - hope you find way forward soon. Perhaps a change of clinic will bring the fresh hope you need and more importantly enable you to get pg.  
It would be so much easier if the financial side wasn't so huge on top of everything else.
Keep us posted as to where you end up & especially when you get that BFP   

Kirsty - hope all going to plan & you are still on track with your tx   

Mamochka - not long now until your cycle now. How are you feeling?

Debs - hope all still going well for you. Have you decided about when you'll start maternity leave yet?

Hi & hugs to everyone else. Hope everyone is ok    

AFM - coping better now though still finding emotions harder to control so end up crying over the most ridiculous tv programmes etc.  It's hard being back in the middle of the same world yet now without the IVF cycle to pin my hopes to. Hopefully as time goes on I'll continue feeling stronger but as yet still unable to fully accept it's game over.


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi girls,

*Fififi*... Sorry your emotions are all over the place hun. It's totally understandable, so don't be too hard on yourself. Is it really game over for you? Or a case of saving up for another DE cycle? Tough whichever way you look at it. I really feel for you 

*Louise*... Best of luck with your consultant in Prague. Would be interested to hear your opinions in comparison to Greece?!

*Choco*.....stay away from the pee sticks! Best of luck for your OTD.

*AFM*.... Arrived in Athens yesterday. Scan today showed 3 huge follis and 3 smaller ones. I'm ahead of where I should be now and am triggering tonight... already! Egg collection is Wednesday. In a right dither trying to arrange flights for DP. We weren't expected EC to be until the end of week. Arrgggghh.


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

wow kirstylovessushi all go, i hope your dp arrives in time x
fiffi thanks hon, too be honest the only thing that got me through last winter was the thought of trying again, sometimes just making yourself that promise for the future gets you through x


----------



## hopeful68

Hi Ladies, been off line working and studying and sorting life out generally. So much to catch up on so I cant!! not intending to sound rude but I have got a bit muddled over who is where in the grand scheme of things and my head s too full to take it in right now! One of my colleagues at work (age 30) died last sunday so all a bit of a shock - an accident so not even unwell before hand. As with all my 'good news' (not) so far this year, it puts life in to a perspective and makes you thankful for what you have.
Had a big discussion (cant call it an argument as I wasn't biting back) with DH last week. It has hit him harder than I though not having kids and it all blew up and he was ready to leave as I would be better off with someone my own age (he is 13yrs older) who could give me what I needed and be alive in to old age with me.... he was on a real downer and a bottle of wine hadn't helped. fortunately I was sober- on one of my fasting days, so it didn't turn in to a riot and I think we have rationalised a few things - I also told him I wont be old and alone as I will have loads of dogs to keep me occupied! hopefully got over that but I fear it will bubble up again when he is on a downer. they don't warn you about the aftershocks of it all when you go for treatment. not sure the one counselling session we could have had would have helped sort all this out!! 
The 5:2 diet is going well and I have now lost over 1stone since start of Dec - slow and steady - and I broke a psychological weight related milestone on Monday!!! around half a stone to go I reckon!! 

hope you are all coping with your stage in life and treatment. sorry for lack of individual support but I do try and keep an eye on things - just not the detail or insight to offer any words of wisdom! Take care ladies......


----------



## fififi

Just popping in quickly to say good luck to Kirsty for EC tomorrow


----------



## Salad4

Good luck Kirsty - thinking of you.
Fififi - hope you are putting things straighter and straighter in your mind - it is so hard to get your mind sorted out.  I'm still whirring around with the notion of DE, even though I'm moving forward with it.
Hopeful - it is hard when your partner is older than you - mine is 11 years older than me, so his sperm isn't great, but then my eggs are clearly a bit manky, so there we are - it is both of us.  Well done on the weight loss.  I'm trying to persuade my partner to go on the 5+2 diet as he is over weight and I would be happy to lose a few pounds.
Louise - totally with you on the tired & weary thing.  But you have to keep plodding on and hoping for an upturn.
Hugs to all   
Sally


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

kirsty hope ec went well today
my otd tomorrrow and i am so scared to test, but hopefully i will have some good news for page x


----------



## fififi

Chocochine - will be thinking of you tomorrow and am sending all positive energy I can find your way


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - hope EC went smoothly & DH got there in time


----------



## Salad4

Good luck for tomorrow Chocochine.  I'll have my fingers crossed for you.
Sally


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

well ladies i had so much hope, did  a test at 4.50am this morning and thought i saw a 2nd blurred line, but i think i was wishing it was there. went to two supermarkets at 7am no pregnacy tests finally got one at 8am, did another test at 8.30am, was negative. I am so gutted, i really thought this would, work, my belly feels full but i guess thats period, when i had the postive last time, i did feel sick a lot, this time i just thought prednislone was masking symptoms. I will test tom and carry on with pessaries until period comes. i am so gutted, i really thought i could be a 5%. i guess the answer is to take my advice and send period blood to penny, i may go to my review and ask what happened to the follicles , as it was strange they were only 5 eggs on more drugs. i promised myself i would step away from fertility treatment for 6 months, after the last 6 trys in 18 months, i really have thought of not much else for 2 and half years. i watched the program about the twin in her twenties who had cancer last night and thought i must do something positive, this poor beautiful girl has cancer, lifes not s so bad, hopefully i can find something else. i will keep you posted thanks for your support, wish i had brought more hope x


----------



## hopeful68

Hi Chocochine - read your news - REALLY sorry it didn't happen for you. you are right to carry on the botty bombs and test again, levels may still be a bit low to show if you though you saw a faint line - and your other wees may not have had enough hormone in them - perhaps grasping at straws but worth hanging on for.... give it another couple of days.  Hugs anyway as the deflation is horrid.


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Thanks hopeful x


----------



## artist_mum

chocochine - so sorry to read your post.  I think you are right to just hold on for a day or so and re-test.  Certainly that happened to me: it was negative, i went out and ate mussels that night and got food poisoning, then re-tested and it was faint positive - and held on for a few weeks then lost it. I will never know if it was the food poisoning!  So just WAIT and give it a day or so.  But as Hopeful says, it is so deflating.  so my heart is with you.  You seem very insightful in your post and I know you feel that 43 is old - but there is time and endless possibilities for you if this isn't the one.  It was very beautiful what you wrote about your thoughts re the twin with the cancer.  Hang on in there.  Much love and  , Artist x


----------



## fififi

Chocochine -      
So sad to see your post. But agree that it's worth trying again testing - my clinic recommends 48 hours later before stopping meds.
Wish send lots of wishes for a change of outcome but right now I can imagine how you are feeling and sending lots of hugs cos a negative result when you want this so much & are filled with hope is a lot to deal with.

Our desire and efforts to try and get pg are valid and incredibly consuming. So many of us have experienced pain over and over again. No matter what else we see our pain is very real and has sadly shaped much of our lives.
But, like you say, you see a story of someone else's suffering and it does put things into perspective. I ran into a friend from Uni who is paralysed so had ivf to get her DD. She knows I too had ivf in past so asked me whether I was still trying. I told her that just had failed cycle & she was really caring about it. Then I asked her what her plans were & was shocked to discover that she'd come into town to distract herself cos she was awaiting results of tests for bowel cancer. If positive she'd need huge surgery & her daughter would have to go to foster home for several months as she'd split from partner. Certainly gave me a reality check.


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Wow thank you for the support, I hope things work out for your friend. Update I did two tests on the cheapie I gotva oostive and the clear blue a negative, so hope for testing at weekend. Drs wont do bloods.


----------



## hopeful68

fififi - it is amazing how your friends story can put things in to perspective for life as a whole. I think I have moved on enough from the IVF nightmare to realise how much life I lost to it and wonder what I missed out on because of it - having said that if it had worked I would be thinking very differently and would be around a month off having a first birthday party!   however my lot is not to have kid(s) and I have to accept that or I will find myself at 50 wondering what I missed. In relation to your friend I would have found it hard not to offer to look after her child!!!

Choco: hoping the lines start appearing stronger for you and they aren't false positives playing with your mind!!! fingers crossed.

back to the grind for me, last essay in my course to work on for an hour or 2 before a weekend at work!!

have a good w/end ladies. take some you time and do something nice ('cos I cant while at work!!)
M


----------



## fififi

Hopeful - thanks for words of wisdom. I know that once I'm able to step away from thinking about TTC i will start to regain a life again. Far too many years have been focused on tx and I lost out on pretty much all of my thirties
My uni friend isn't someone I see very often - perhaps two times a year & then it's chance meetings rather than arranged ones. Mysteriously I got a text from her this morning saying that after further tests they're pretty confident the small area removed was all the cancerous cells there were & for now she's clear again. Might still need major bowel surgery but at least she has a future after that to look forward to rather than be in position she was few weeks ago of not knowing if she'd make it to end of year. Whilst my life is pretty pants at moment hers really & truly is unjust.
I did wonder whether I would be strong enough to offer to foster her daughter but not sure I am. Having a young child become part of our lives for a few months to then leave again I think will make the holes in my live even bigger. It would be a great thing to be able to offer but sadly I'm not in place to do that as yet.

Chocco - how confusing regarding those tests. Sorry GP wouldn't do bloods. Would you want to pay & get them done? Think it's about £75 at Spire private hospital near me.
Still hoping you get positives all round over the weekend       Thinking of you


----------



## deblovescats

glad you're ok fiffi - I really feel for you, I know what you mean about TTC becoming all consuming. You quite forget there is a life out there! 
choco - keeping everything crossed, don't give up. I tested early, got BFN, then day before OTD got a positive, couldn't believe it and got obsessed with the pee sticks! It's not over yet.
Good luck with anyone cycling.
Glad you're being so positive hopeful = you're an inspiration! 
I just feel so lucky and hope you guys all get your deserved wish! 
AFM - pregnancy progressing well, nearly 25 weeks - can't believe how time's flown. Had glucose test for diabetes - normal, so that's good. Had hospital appointment - all fine. Can now feel baby moving a little, but not big movements yet. Growth scan normal, so keeping fingers crossed. Got loads of support from family,friends and work colleagues. Just starting to feel nervous about doing it on my own, but I know I should stop feeling sorry for myself, it's what I've wanted, just wish I had a partner to share it with, but as we know, we can't have everything. The news about fiffi's friend just shows how you never know what's going to happen. I also saw the documentary about the twin with terminal cancer -so young and it's so tragic, I can't believe how brave she is. makes me put my life into perspective!
Deb


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Choco*.... So you have one positive and one negative now? How confusing and worrying for you. I hope as a few days pass the result becomes clearer and it's definitely a BFP.

*Fifi*... Thanks for your good luck wishes. How sad about your friend from uni. It really does out everything into perspective as you've said. It's a lovely idea to offer and foster her daughter, but I think all that you've been through lately with the treatment will make it a tough thing for you to do. Probably too soon after the DE cycle hun.

*Debs*... Glad your pregnancy going well! You never know... Having a baby opens up lots of different doors and access to different types of people, new friends, and groups. You never know.. You could meet Mr Right in one of these different circumstances!

*Michelle*...hope you are ok... Your nose always seems to be on the grindstone with your studies! That's tough about your hubby struggling with the thoughts of being older than you and being down about the treatment not working. It must be so hard for our other halves. They keep so much inside at the time, only for it to come bubbling to the surface at a later stage. I hope you sort it out. Take care.

*Sally*... Thanks for the good luck message. Hope all is ok with you.

*Rox* ..hope you are alright.... Shame we'll miss each other in Athens.

*AFM*... EC was ok.... Only 6 eggs though .. A low number for me (sign of getting older and older?!) ... 3 of those fertilised. Again a low number and was very low and despondent yesterday. On the plus side, my lining looks good.. So all the hard work to thicken my lining is doing the trick. 10mm at it's thickest part. Spoke to Penny today and all three embies are still looking excellent, "it only takes one" I hear you all say! Back to Serum tom for a scan and to decide if 3 or 5 day transfer. Thanks for all your support and good wishes as always.

Xx


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Hi kirstylovessushi welldone on ec I felt the same way at 3 eggs but having 3 is good and hopefully they will be back inside you too. 
I sam confused about tests as otd was yesterday but the clinic said A faint line is a positive so I am off to buy a digital test for tom, least ther is some hope


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - worried about you as you sound so down compared to your normal bubbly self   
Expectations are always high and it's frustrating when cycle doesn't goes as well as we'd hoped. But that said 3 embies are 3 embies and as you knowingly said you only actually need 1 of those to be THE one      ... and your lining sounds best it could be!!!! 5 star hotel here they go!!!!! 
This waiting around bit is hard but am sure Serum are doing all they can. Thinking of you & will look forward to your PUPO update 

Debs - wow 25 weeks now. Hope you realise you've a whole load of virtual godmothers for your LO on here!
It is a shame you've no special someone to share all the wonderful joys you're experiencing with you but like Kirsty said there's lots of new doors opening in your future & Mr Right will be behind one of them.
You've enabled this miracle to happen and more than most should be very proud of the strength & determination you've shown to get this far.

Choco - fingers & toes crossed for you


----------



## Louisej29

Kirsty.  Keep positive Hun.  Remember banny b and her one fertilised egg which became her baby.  It really really does only take one and the fact they look good quality is good news. Hoping your little 3 will be back with you soon.  I know you're feeing despondent and you've been through soooooo much I am not surprised but we are all keeping fingers crossed this is it for you ! 

Debs.  That seems to have gone fast! Wow.  I agree with the others- you just never know when mr right is going to show up and you'll be meeting lots of new people when baby arrives.  

Fiffi.  I agree that this totally takes over your life.  I can't remember a time when life was not all about ttc, tests and ivf and drugs and injections and tears and heartache. It's rubbish. But you keep going as to give up is even harder than to keep going through it. 

Choco.  I had a bfn on otd on cycle 4 and a bfp 2 days later- so the fact you have a faint line is good news. Coud be a late implanter.  Fingers crossed for you.  Know how scary the waiting and testing game is though.  

I'm feeling utterly weary of life right now.  Wasn't helped by my boss suggesting to me maybe I'd like to resign! Then I could "focus on my dream" without having the constraints of a job! Yes I would love to resign but ivf doesn't come free! Now feel rubbish and unwanted and like I'm going to be pushed out.  Argh.  Life never easy. Next steps still undecided.  Still keep hoping for a natural miracle stupidly. 

Have a good w end everyone xxxlots of love.  Hope Sunday passes gently for everyone not yet a mummy xx


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

So I did a digital and got 1 2 weeks pregnant so hoping this will work. I am actually 4 weeks plus now, so willvdo another digital next week to see if it goes. I am am going to test everyday now until scan, trying not too get hopes up or down if u get my drift.


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Chocco*... A positive is a positive hun! So that has to be a good thing. I'm wondering if you need extra progesterone support as it's saying 1-2 weeks and you are 4. Have you had bloods tested yet?

*Louise*... Your boss suggested you resign?! Seriously? How inconsiderate and unsympathetic. Just because your dream hasn't come true yet, why does it mean you have to stop working? And yes, it needs to be paid for somehow too! Unbelievable! Try not to let it get to you and focus on the consultation in Prague and happier times.

*Fififi*... Yes, was feeling a bit low and fed up to be honest. Funny how it came across in my post and I desperately tried to be upbeat! You know me better than my own friends and family I reckon!

*AFM*... So, quick update... The fab embryologist at Serum managed to salvage another small egg using IVM and it fertilised! So today I had four embryos transferred!! I can't believe it after the all the panic and worry of the past 2 weeks. All 8 cells, three are excellent and one is good quality, plus, lining is over 10mm so I'm thrilled about. Now the fun 2ww starts


----------



## Louisej29

Choco.  That's great news.  A positive is a positive. Fingers crossed levels continue to rise !

Kirsty. So pleased to hear you have 4 on board.  Now they need to get implanting !

Enjoy your next few days in Athens and try and chill. Easier said than done on the 2ww.  Lots of listening to zita to chill

Xx hope everyone is enjoying the sunshine xx


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Kirsty great news pupo with quads I heard the embriologist was good there.  Congratulations x 
I am reasearching where I can get bloods done locally


----------



## fififi

Chocochine - yeah! Getting a positive on digital is fab news ... definitely time for that smile to get bigger    
Hopefully your levels will continue to rise and your smile can change to grin    
Where are you? Should be fairly easy to locate somewhere to get bloods done privately. I can suggest centres in East Midlands.


Kirsty - wahoo PUPO with 4 embies. Looks like you may well end up with a spare baby for the rest of us to share   
Really hope 2ww passes quickly & brings fantastic news to you     
When do you return from Athens?

Louise - am astounded by your boss. Yes a life without extra stresses during ivf would be lovely but unless you're a millionaire you're hardly likely to be more relaxed living on less money & having nothing to do all day, everyday.
Hope work situation resolves itself and the suggestion of voluntary redundancy isn't followed by further issues.   


BIG, BIG, BIG hugs to everyone for tomorrow. Hope the day isn't too painful for anyone


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Loiuse just read your post big hug, you have been through so much, shame on your boss!  I dont know what to suggest but hope there is a new path for you x


----------



## deblovescats

thanks fiffi and kirsty - you never know, Mr Right might be just round the corner, think it's just a bit of a wobble as the due date comes closer.
Fingers crossed choco - looking good so far! Just hang in there.
Congrats on being PUPO kirsty! wow.
hope you're doing ok fiffi
Thanks louise.
Can't believe time is galloping!
Deb


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Hi girls

I've been loitering on here as I normally post on the over 40s current cyclers thread but thought I probably should come out of the shadows and start posting here  

As you can see from my signature we've just been through our first round of ivf which resulted in a bfn  . We have just found out that of my 24 eggs and our 16 embies the best two were put back (at day 5) and these were a grade 2 blasto and a cavitating blastocyst. On ET we were told none of our other embies were worth freezing and I guess now knowing the quality of the embies transferred it's not a surprise  .

I feel really disheartened. I can't help feeling that having so many eggs didn't make for great quality and I'm wondering how we avoid that next time.....

In addition to the above I still haven't seen AF despite it now being day 62!!! Plenty of spotting but no wretched witch. I've done numerous tests and all negative. I just want to draw a line under the OHSS, the poor embies and the bfn but without AF it's difficult to move on  

Sorry for such a ME post - I will get up to date on personsals just feeling a bit low - and didn't want to bring the current cyclers down  

Hugs to all - this ivf business is a stressful lark, isn't it?  

Grey xx


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

big hugs grey xxxxx


----------



## hopeful68

Hi all - not in the mood for posting of personals as yet another guy at work died suddenly last night (age 43). that is 2 in a fortnight....... 2014 is officially rubbish (I would use a stronger word but it would be censored.)

just wanted to say Hi to Greyhoundgal and welcome her to the page which is exactly the right place to be for support post the BFN. IVF is a real turmoil of emotions and the ladies here can offer far wiser words of support for you than me at the moment. sorry you had to join, but welcome any way!
M


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Thanks ladies - Hopeful what a horrible start to the year   Was your colleague married / a father? How dreadful. I can sympathise as my last partner died at 40 in a rti.

Choco - hope you're feeling good and positive??  

AFM - was at the hospital for follow up from OHSS today. Right ovary almost normal but left still quite swollen  humph - and to cap it al, part of me was hoping to see something on the scan to explain the fact that I'm now on day 63 but still no AF   but no - there was no one miraculously in there  

Grey xx


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

yes i being postive, going to do do another digital test on thurs or friday, so hopefully i will see a weeks change, scan is two weeks tom xxx
i really think somebody should be investigating you grey, 63 days.... thats a long time, do you feel ok? did they have any advice?


----------



## Greyhoundgal

It's been really stressful as no one has any advice Choco   not very helpful. We are on with the consultant on Friday so I shall give them what for then  

Grey xx


----------



## hopeful68

Grey: 63 days, that is a long time but stress can do weird things. I was on a course once (paramedic one) and I was so stressed I completely missed AF for a month thought I was PG , no such luck!! try and relax somehow and she may show her ugly face!! As you asked...the First guy who died at work was 30 and failed to surface from snorkelling while abroad, he was on a time out from a charity mission to take first aid skills and kit to isolated areas. the latest one was a 43 yr old, father of 3 (all under 1 and had a ruptured aneurysm- so a sudden death for him and the family. Not a happy place at work at the moment and then you get sent to piffling call outs and wonder what is wrong with the world! I think 2014 has to start improving soon or I may lok myself away somewhere until next year!


----------



## fififi

Hopeful - the deaths of your colleagues is really sad & so shocking in such short space of time. Hope it's not affected you too much and you've been able to talk with each other about it. If counselling is offered it might be an idea to use it just to get things into open better.
Sunshine is definitely needed in your life right now so sending extra hugs your way & wishes for some good news        

Choco - hope the retest brings good news  ^   
Thinking of you  

Grey - welcome to the thread
How long is it since you stopped the ivf meds? It's pretty normal for AF to be delayed for upto 3 weeks from OTD/end of meds but after that not so common. Hopefully your body will recover from OHSS soon and that will mean normal hormonal responses once more. Though be warned first AF after ivf cycle is normally extra heavy.
When you go for a review it's important you raise the issue of so many eggs but them being poor quality. Find out what clinic intend to do next time to improve things for you.


Hi & big hugs to everyone else


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Just to update you digital 2 to 3 Weeks so just waiting for scan on 16th x


----------



## fififi

Great news Choco     
Hope that you're feeling more positive in yourself now and that the next wait doesn't feel too long away       
Really pleased for you


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

thanks fififi i will keep you all posted, hopefully it will be the lucky break for the thread


----------



## Louisej29

Great news choco.  Keep us all posted x


----------



## hopeful68

Fingers crossed it is a stayer for you chocco. glad to hear some good news!!


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Hi all

Choco - not long to scan now but it must feel like ages....next Wednesday will be here before you know it  

Fififi - thanks for advice. Stopped meds on 9th March so it's quite a few weeks now and still no AF although don't seem to be spotting as regularly now....confusing. At our review consultant said they won't get me to down reg next time and just put me on cetrotide for stims and see how we go. They've also suggested an endo scratch and intralipids (without the Chicago tests as they say they're really expensive and as the ILs benefit most over 40s so better to spend the test money on the treatment). 

She said that it's common to have very messed up cycle after ivf but even more so if you had OHSS as the oestrogen still in your system messes things up - and in my case one of my ovaries is still swollen so likely to still be impacting on the oestrogen levels   harrumph. So she wants three clear cycles til we do treatment again so please everyone do an AF dance for me so she comes  !!

Hope everyone is ok - sorry for another 'me' post  

Grey xx


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Thankd ladies xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Greyhoundgal*... sorry you've had to join us, but "welcome" nevertheless. I'm also sorry to hear about your unsuccessful IVF. Sounds like a total pain with your AF not turning up either. Although, as the other girls have said it's not unusual to wait weeks after a cycle because of all the synthetic hormones you've been plying your body with. It is disheartening when you get high numbers of eggs, but still no BFP at the end of it. Sadly 'quantity' doesn't always mean 'quality' when you get to 40 and you would have been extremely fortunate for your first attempt to work as well. Quite often at our ages it takes a few goes! Can I suggest you ask your clinic about a more gentle stimulation process next time? I think there is a lot to be said for producing fewer eggs that are of better quality. This is what Create in the UK do and Penny at Serum in Athens is a great advocate of a milder medication protocol which she believes produces better embryos to transfer, albeit in smaller numbers (I'll let you know more about how well this theory works on Thursday )

*Choco*... good stuff lady! Pleased for you. Good luck for your scan next week.

*Fifi.*... how are you doing now?

*Louise*... hope all is well with you and your next steps are coming together nicely.

*Hopeful*.... so sorry to hear about the two guys at work that have passed away... truly awful 

*AFM*... the 2 week wait is passing by with a few painful twinges here and there, but that's about all. I test on Thursday and to say I'm absolutely terrified is the understatement of the century!

xx


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

goodluck kirsty xxx


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - so nearly Thursday hope the 2ww not been too torturous for you. Will be crossing fingers & toes for you     


Hope things going well with everyone else


----------



## ajw

Good luck Kirsty! I'm just after you OTD Saturday. I'm going bonkers!!! 
Really hoping it's positive for you this time


----------



## Salad4

Good luck Kirsty
and Good luck AJW.
sallyx


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Good luck for tomorrow Kirsten    

Grey xx


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - will be thinking of you tomorrow morning and wishing, wishing, wishing you get good news


----------



## Sushi Lover

Another BFN this morning. Just feel numb and can't even cry. 

It's so cruel. Why me?! I really felt it was different this time....

At least I'm in the right place/chat ...sadly ironic.

Xxxx


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Oh no Kirsty   there are no right words   Is to possible yo have a blood test to be sure? So sorry hun 

Grey xx


----------



## Louisej29

Kirsty. Know I've spoken to you this morning on text but thought I'd reply here as well so say how sooooooooo sorry I am , truly gutted for you.  

Life is so v cruel and you deserved your positive result after all you have been through. There is just no rhyme or reasoning to any of this.  It makes me so angry as I know how you'll be feeling right now. 

Sending lots of love and hugs to you and N , Hang on in there hun.  I've said to you before and I still believe our times will come.  Drink that vino and grieve and you'll feel stronger soon x


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Grey*... I could have a blood test... but am I clutching at straws and prolonging the agony?! If there was a faint, hint of a second line I definitely would do. But there was nothing... a very definite single line.

*Louise*... thanks again for all your kind words, love, support and advice honey.

xx


----------



## Greyhoundgal

It's so cruel - especially as I can see you've had a long journey - I'm so sorry - the words so don't measure up to how you must be feeling right now hun  

Grey xx


----------



## MJ1

So sorry *Kirsty*, logged on especially to hear good news.. I am so sorry.
Hugs xxxx

MJ xxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

I'm at the end of my tether to be honest.

Thanks* MJ* ... sorry it's all bad news 

xx


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

oh kirsty i am so sorry but i had to wait another two days to get firm positives, really try not to give up completely. big hug x


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks *Choco*... I didn't take my meds this morning as felt 'down and out'. Maybe I should continue for another 2 days and re-test? Any advice anyone? If I'm clutching at straws I won't mind anyone saying so! Seriously.

Today I'm 12 days past a 3dt.

Thank you xx


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Kirsty, hun  I'd clutch at the straws and carry on taking the meds....and retest on Saturday. They do often say to do that at the clinics so I would give it your all and carry on for a couple more days  

Grey xx


----------



## ajw

Oh Kirsty I'm so sorry      
Feel terrible for you. Been following your story on these pages for a long time now. We've both been on this roller coaster and suffering for longer than anyone should have to... 
Personally I never do a hpt, although very tempted this time as I'm going nuts! I always do a blood test as you know for sure that way. 
Look after yourself  
Ajw


----------



## Sushi Lover

thanks *ajw*... appreciate your words.

I went to have a blood test at lunchtime, to be absolutely sure before stopping the medication, so I'll know for definite in a few hours.....

Best of luck for your OTD! xx


----------



## Greyhoundgal

fingers crossed for you Kirsty xxxxx


----------



## Salad4

Kirsty - I'll be keeping everything crossed for you which will be hard when I'm in a council meeting giving them the update on our pensions scheme, but bugger it, you've got to try everything...
Thinking positive thoughts..
Sally


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

fingers crossed for you kirsty xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

It's a low number... 5. But description is "equivocal, repeat in 48 hours".... Totally in a panic now. Any ideas ladies. Carry on with meds?

I know it's a slim chance of success, but it's still a chance

X


----------



## fififi

Kirsty    
So, so sorry to see you've not got the result you deserved. Had really thought this was your time.

However don't give up hope totally as although your blood test result is low (should be 25 or above for confirmed pregnancy) it's still higher than a confirmed negative result (-3 or below) which is why a repeat test in 48 hours will be able to confirm either way.
In your shoes I'd continue with the meds - plus my clinic's OTD isn't until 14 days after 3dt.
Worst case scenario the fact you registered as slightly positive shows implantation occurred. (I really regret not getting blood test done following my BFN as now am worried in case implantation is the issue not just my eggs since I had a top grade blast transferred from a donor egg.) Knowing that there was implantation will aid your transition to DE - if needed (fingers & toes crossed that not) - as you know it wasn't  your body that failed.

Am thinking of you & sending lots & lots of virtual hugs down M1


----------



## Louisej29

Kirsty.  Good luck and fingers crossed those levels rise. 

I agree with fiffi in that I wished I'd had all my bfn s tested with a blood test not just a hpt. 
If it does turn out to be a chemical pregnancy at least you will know, as fiffi says, implantation did start to happen. 

Definitely carry on your meds. When I got a bfn on cycle 4- which days later turned into a bfp I'd stopped all my meds and drank wine.  Something I still bitterly regret to this day as always wonder if stopping the drugs made me mc.  

Thinking of you Hun xx

How's everyone else doing ??


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Finers crossed kirsty x


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Fingers crossed x


----------



## ajw

Kirsty, I'm so glad you took the blood test! Let's hope that the levels rise  , but as Fiffi said, at the very least you know that something happened and that's positive! 

I've had blood tests following all four of my cycles and never got off the starting blocks, so honestly, I'd be over the moon to get your result.  

Sorry you're going to have a tough 48hrs, but keep taking the meds and stay strong.

ajw x


----------



## Sushi Lover

Morning girls,

I was so low this morning and you've all cheered me up a bit... so thank you.

Even if the second HCG test doesn't show a rise, at least I know my body is trying to achieve implantation (or did in a small way)...  so this is something to work with as Louise and Fifi said.  Yes, it would be so useful if we'd all had the HCG test for our BFNs right?  I only did HPTs too and then stopped all drugs when they were negative...  but who is to say it could have been a low number trying to rise?  Makes you stop and think right?  

Anyway, I'm still taking my meds...  clexane, steroids, oetrogen, progesterone, asprin... Another HCG blood test tomorrow to see if there is any rise.

If not.... it's on to donor eggs....

xx


----------



## deblovescats

hi girls
kirsty - was so sorry to hear your BFN, but I'm hoping and praying that the blood test level will rise - don't give up yet. As the other girls say, it's not over yet. I haven't had blood tests on my BFNs so I think it would have been helpful to do so. I was naughty and tested early on my BFP - got a BFN on 9 dp 5dt, thought it was all over, then tested 12 days pt ( a day earlier than clinic said) and got a BFP. Couldn't believe, then tested OTD and was still BFP. I went a bit mad then I must admit and did loads of pee sticks. So with yours being 3d, maybe needs longer to implant. I'd keep doing the meds for now till you get definite result from bloods. Keep on hoping.
I'd take it as a good sign anyway that it was trying to implant, and thought I know you want to do OE, at least there are other possibilities out there - DE. I was wary at first, but now my baby is growing inside me, I've forgotten all about the DE. I just feel amazed that my body is nourishing it.
hope you're doing ok fiffi and everyone else having a tough time. I keep popping in from time to time to see how you guys are doing. You're all amazing and deserve a positive outcome. I like to think that we'll all get it one day.
can't believe time is flying - nearly 27 weeks, had midwife appt - everything thankfully ok.
Deb


----------



## Sushi Lover

Second HCG test today was only 2 sadly. So looks like a 'chemical' for me. Even though I expected it, I still feel devastated. 

Thanks for all your support girls.

X


----------



## Salad4

Kirsty - I am so sorry - chemical pregnancies are so hard because you can't help your hopes rising even when you know what the odds are. 
Sallyx


----------



## fififi

Kirsty     
Sorry hun .... NOT, NOT, NOT fair !!!!!


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

Sorry kirsty x


----------



## Greyhoundgal

So so sorry Kirsty   I really hoped this would be a positive outcome for you. Take good care of yourself  

Grey xx


----------



## ajw

I'm so sorry too Kirsty.   It must be heartbreaking. Positive to know something happened, but so frustrating that it didn't quite make it. 
Have a talk with your clinic before you make any decisions. It was relatively easy for me to move to DE, as I'd never ever got a positive result (did a blood test for every cycle), but if I was in your position I'm not sure how I'd feel. Maybe others who've been through chemicals before can give you better advice.   
Take care of yourself and don't give up hope.  

All I can say is that at our age doing DE is like a breath of fresh air. Ok, not everyone can do it. It's a lot to get your head around and depends on your reasons for wanting kids. Do you want to form a family and be a mum, or do you really want a child because you want to have a little you and dh. There's no right or wrong and my view has certainly changed as I saw my options disappearing. (Here in France it's virtually impossible to adopt at my age and after 5 ivf cycles with worsening results
I knew this was my only hope. 

I did my first DE cycle end of March and just found out yesterday that it's a BFP!
Didn't want to post yesterday as I was sad to read Kirsty's news and didn't want to be insensitive, but I hope my news will give hope to those of you thinking that DE might be right for you. I'll be having a second. Blood test tomorrow to be sure, as at the moment I'm still in disbelief. I've been on this roller coaster for too long!

Take care everyone and enjoy the rest of the weekend. 

Ajw x


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thank you girls, I really, really appreciate you all taking the time to follow my little story and for posting such kind words /sending hugs.

*Ajw*... I am so pleased for you hun. Honestly I am. I appreciate you saving your news for today from a sensitivity perspective, that is extremely kind of you and something not everyone would do. That is such brilliant news about your BFP and your story re donor eggs spurs me on. To be honest, it's proving to be quite easy for me to move into DE. Even though I've just had a chemical, it's my first one ever and the closest I've ever been. I could tell this with the changes in my body too. And the different symptoms I experienced. But I've been TTC for 10 years now, with so many unsuccessful IUI and IVF cycles behind me. Although the chemical has given me hope that the implantation problem I've always had have now been solved, it also reminded me my eggs are still not quite up to it. By giving myself that extra help with donor eggs increases my chances so much and I'm very aware the good work of Hysto, d&c and implantation cuts I had done in Feb won't last forever as well. I just want a family now and to be a Mum and will do whatever possible to achieve that. That's what is important to me. Good luck for your second blood test tom... Let us know how you get on.

Xxx


----------



## fififi

AJW - congratulations that's fantastic news ... So pleased you've finally got a BFP    
Hope your bloods tomorrow show the increase they should & you can relax and enjoy this new & exciting time

Kirsty - glad you're sounding a little more positive. Getting BFN after extra effort beforehand is extra hard but knowing implantation was achieved is big, big plus ... though obviously not the news you wanted   
Having battled with my heart to move to DE I can say it is a big step to take when you've still a chance with your OE. What swung it for me was, as AJW said, the fact that what I wanted from the process was a baby. At my clinic my odds of conception increased from 15% to nearly 50% and risk of MC following went down from 50% to 15%. It was such a wonderful feeling carrying embies with such good odds. Plus had I managed to land the right side of the 50% I would have felt so much safer knowing my risks of loss were genuinely low.
If you've any questions feel free to pm me. Also the DE board is really helpful as there's so many ladies in the same place with same worries. Obviously it's not good that there's so many people there but it's good from perspective of help and support is.
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=551.0

Quick hi to everyone else - hope things feeling more positive then negative   

AFM - life muddling by. Am still struggling with fact that my BFN cycle in March was last go. I really need to feel like there's still a chance as just not ready to accept that it's game over. DH still adamant that he wants no more. Feel cheated in that he let me believe whilst cycling that if it went wrong we'd do another. Apparently that was to keep me positive at time - but result is I feel 100 times worse now!
Still not had our review and this will now get delayed as have booked last minute holiday to Cornwall for next weekend. Hoping some time away will help me & DH get close again and possibly that in turn will change his mind about trying one final time.
Definitely looking forward to getting away and switching off. Not to mention being by coast - having lived walking distance from sea most of my life to be nearly 3 hours away is nothing short of torture.


----------



## CHOCOCHINE

So sorrry kirsty x
Congratulations ajw
Fififi try and enjoy your break x


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## CHOCOCHINE

thank you ladies but it was 7 week scan but not a viable pregnancy again. i hope i didn't kill my embies with stress, the nurse said just didn't develop probably my age. i am truly numb, gutted. i am going to erpc tomorrow i am stopping meds. so i lost my home my relationship and hopes for last 2 years. i am taking 6 months off to recover. i hope your dreams come true, i have managed to get a review on tuesday but i just cant put any more effort into anything more than getting to work at mo.


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## fififi

Chocochine     
So, so sorry to see your scan brought such bad news. Having fought against odds to get as far as a scan it is extra unfair.
Not surprised you need some time out. Today's news will have been huge shock and it sounds like you're in desperate need of some TLC and support right now. Don't push yourself too hard with work & trying to cope with life in general. Allow yourself some time to be sad / angry.
Here if you need us


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## Salad4

Chocochine - I am so sorry - you have had a really rough time of it.  As fififi said, we are here for you whenever you are ready.  Take the time to look after and heal yourself.  
Sallyx


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## Louisej29

Oh choco - I was absolutely gutted to read your post. So upset for you. I know how desperate you will be feeling right now and there are just no words to bring comfort. It is so so cruel to be told at a scan your baby has no heartbeat.  You did nothing wrong at all Hun.  Stress would not have made any difference at all.  It is just so unfair

I know the Erpc will be hard tomorr and I will be thinking of you. 
I hope it goes as well as it can x

Here if you want to chat. I know those feelings of utter despair going through a second mc so pm me if you need an ear.  

Lots of love x


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## Sushi Lover

Dear *Choco*, I'm so, so desperately sorry to read the sad news about your scan. I can imagine how terrible that must feel to be told there is no heartbeat.... just completely and utterly devastating. You've been through so much and really do not deserve this. There really is no justice in this world.

Thinking of you and sending a massive hug your way xxx


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## Altai

Choco - sorry to read what is happening to you. Life is so unfair. I posted to you on another thread, too. 

Kirsty - how's plan B progressing? Admire your decisiveness. I cannot deny I hadn't thought about de. I think It would have been much easier for me to make a move to de, if I had partner/ husband and we wanted to have a family. 
But then am running out of time either way oe or de .....


Ajw - hope everything progressing well 

Fififi- have a relaxing break, hope u can make ur hubby change his  mind 

Afm - bfn again, not sure it was a chemical as still could 'd had some hcg left in the system. have been suggested hystero for the next try. 
I know many ladies have done it, wonder how many've been successful after?


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## fififi

Altai -      
Sorry to see you too have had a BFN ... must be extra hard dealing with that news on your own. Hope you're allowing yourself some time to be sad /angry cos you've been through a lot and it's important to value yourself still.


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## Louisej29

Sorry to see your news Altai.  

Saw you'd mentioned about de in your post . You are not running out if time if this was something you decided to do- I know it's a huge decision ( and one I'm still considering and battling with !) but the odds are sooooo much higher. 

I did have a hysteroscopy after my 4th ivf and 2nd mc - was good to see there were no orobs but didn't make much difference for me in he next ivf. Then again- if you're with penny I think she does the deep implantation cuts.  Speak to Kirsty when she's next on as she's had it done.  Good luck xx


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## Salad4

Oh Altai.  We've had some bad news on this thread, haven't we.  At least we've got AJW and Debs to keep us hoping.  And others are moving on at their own pace.  
AFM - I've been struggling about the move to DE, but am moving ahead with that now.  A good friend of mine offered to be a donor for me and she is currently cycling at the moment.  She doesn't have children herself and has never done IVF, so they are currently trying to get the medication right as her follicles hadn't been growing quickly enough.  She's back in for a scan tomorrow and is hoping for a popcorn effect with lots of growth! My lining is just fine, but that feels bizarrely easy (and maybe too easy) compared to cycles when I've been trying to grow my own eggs.  We also went to Darwin's House today and Emma Darwin was 48 when she had her last child (definitely not IVF in 1856!!).  Hope everyone has a restful Easter.  Sallyx


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## CHOCOCHINE

thanks everyone, there was no heart beat at hospital but i have to re scan at 8 weeks and 2days on thursday before they will book the erpc. having waited every week before getting my hopesup i know the score, i have just given up and oted to have erpc asap so i can move on, but suspect it won't be until week after next. i can't express how hard it is to not only use your dream, your partner, your home and your daily life  all in one week. i will take a back seat from fertility treatment for 6 months, but have pretty much excepted my eggs are crap!
goodluck every one else x


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## Salad4

Choco - I know that you have to manage your hopes, but I'll keep my fingers and everything crossed for you that they find a heartbeat.  Lots of hugs   
Sallyx


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## CHOCOCHINE

Thanks for the support I hope all your drsams come true and you all beat the odds. I had erpc todayat 8 weeks just felt easier to move forward than wait to miscarry. Taking each day at a time 6 months off x


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## Salad4

look after yourself Choco.  
Salad


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## Sushi Lover

So, so sorry *Choco*. Sending you a massive cuddle. xxx


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## Sushi Lover

*Altai*.... I definitely think DE could be an option for you hun. You want to be a Mum as desperately as the rest of us who are in relationships and I don't see why cycling with your co-parent using donor eggs couldn't be a viable way forward for you? It's all about having that baby and being parents (albeit separately), rather than creating a mini-me right? Not that this wrong either, but both ways are equally ok in my eyes.

Yes, Lou is right, I had deep implantation cuts during my hystoroscopy. I achieved a 'chemical' which is further than I got before, but what the d&c, removal of scar tissues and cuts did improve was my lining. I don't know if this is an issue for you? I always had a thin'ish lining, about 6 - 7mm.. after the treatment I achieved a lining of 10mm. I was over the moon with this as it will also help with DE implanting going forward. I mean, if my lining isn't great then even donor eggs wouldn't help be have a baby right?!

I hope that helps in some way. If you've tested positive for Penny's hidden infections it's likely the old scar tissue would impede implantation...  so removing it would be beneficial. The added cost isn't ideal I know, but it will help in the long run.

Let me know if you need any other info.

xxx


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## Coolish

Choco - so sorry and sending you hugs xx

I had hidden c treatment and a hysto for my last cycle - the hysto removed dead lining from the infection and did the deep implantation cuts. I also had an immunes protocol, including ABs, clexane, steroids and intralipids etc.  I had 4 failed DE cycles before I moved to Serum and Penny suggested all of the above. You can see the result of all this on my profile picture 

if you have any questions about moving to DE then I'd be more than happy to answer them. Also there are a lot of ladies on the Serum threads that have done double donor and adopted embryos. 

AJW - what fantastic news - congratulations!

Sorry I don't pop on here much now but I am still reading


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## Altai

Thank you KLS and Cool. I am now thinking I'l do 3D SIS scan first, according to DR google its as accurate diagnostic tool as  hysteroscopy. and less expensive and non-invasive. Obviously if it shows any issues , then I'd have to do hysto and end up paying more. but may be I wouldnt need hysto at all.
Lining is not an issue, and tested negative for their hidden infections, none of the numerous scans have showed any cause for concern. That is the reason am a bit apprehensive of doing hysto. Plus not convinced that hysto has worked better than endo scratch for most ladies.
DE is going to be a difficult issue for me as what I really want is a biological child. Sadly, not all dreams come true. It just have to decide when to stop. In my heart could go for as long as have any OR left. ...
Also, if de, then  have to do it in Russia. Not sure he'd go there with me. 
sorry for the me post. so devastated, had hoped that this cycle would work as been the best out of all. 
  
Cool - such a cute LO.


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## Sushi Lover

*Jules*.... ahh, cute baby photo! How is everything going?

*Altai*... I've never heard of the 3D SIS scan?! Or is it the same thing as the Aquascan that Penny does? To be honest, as you were tested negative for hidden injections and have no lining issues then I don't see why you'd need a hysteroscopy/D&C/tissue removal/implantation cuts? I can't see it adding any value for you. See what the scan brings up first. If you had the choice of a baby using donor eggs or no baby at all would you really be able to say 'hand on heart' that you'd rather no baby at all hun? That's the bottom line for me really and how I see it. Why couldn't you do it at Serum? Sorry you are so devastated... never apologise for a 'me' post... if you can't do those on this forum then where can you do them? That's what it's here for and we all do 'me' posts every once in a while. We can support each other.

*Fifi*... how are you now honey? Did you enjoy your Easter break by the sea? I do feel sorry for you with DH. So he kind of alluded to fact you could try again if the last time didn't work? Or actually said you could? But it was only to keep your PMA up? Hmmmm, that is tough. Obviously he had his reasons, but you must be very angry with him for this? Or disappointed? I know I would be. I don't know the stats about DE working first time around... would imagine it's higher than OE, but still kind of a 'best of three' prognosis. I really do hope you can try again as feel one go isn't really enough. You didn't have any frosties then? Sorry, I can't remember now. Is DH sperm ok? Would you consider double donor? I had this conversation with my DP the other day and whilst he wasn't keen immediately he then said that it's only fair to consider this if I am considering donor eggs. Penny said the odds increase again by another 10%... so you are up in the 60's. It's a tough call though... no biological connection to either partner. Although.. I refer back to what I was saying to Altai... if it's that choice or no baby then it's a no-brainer for me. But I understand not everyone would make that choice. Talk soon.

xx


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## Coolish

Hystos can also be used to diagnose other conditions too, not just lining - I'm in no way an expert (obviously but in my case I had one in Spain too to look at the location of the half a dozen fibroids I have. None were in the way of implantation and they took a biopsy too. The greek hysto isn't just diagnostic but also solves any issues at the same time - for me that included removing 'dead' lining, polyps and doing deep implantation cuts. Sorry I know I'm going on a bit, but it's well worth doing.

I'm doing well Kirsty.  LO is doing great too. Seriously,  for any of you struggling with a move to DE, you would completely forget about it as soon as those embryos are popped in. They completely are your child. You're their mummy and grew them and nourished them and gave birth to them. I still sometimes think I'm in a dream as I can't believe I produced this gorgeous little thing 

Also, I had 4 failed DE attempts, but really think if I'd gone to see Penny I would have had a bfp on the first or second attempt.  She really looked for underlying issues and treated them first.


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## Sushi Lover

*Jules*... you are right actually... could be dead tissue in the lining that is stopping implantation for Altai. This type of thing doesn't show up on regular scans. The thickness of the lining can be measured, but you cannot see if it's nice, fresh, red tissue as oppose to the white stuff. Implantation cuts definitely help this. @ Altai: maybe on the Aquascan Penny can see if there are any polyps?

Glad you and the LO are doing well. That's good to know with the dilemmas of moving onto DE. Everyone says it, but I suppose you do not know exactly how it feels until you are in that position. For me, as soon as I see those two lines on the pee stick and that heart beat on the scan I'll forget about it completely 

I'm hoping my first try with Penny using DE will be successful. We shall see. I'm aiming for June.

xx


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## Altai

yes, I had aquascan - all was fine, no polyps. I think dead tissue they should see as colouring would be different compare to the healthy tissue on a scan. 
I think there is only one problem - age. That unfortunately cant be changed. Also, I had endo scrath on the day on EC, P. said it is mild scratch & is fine to do on a day.
Have been doing reading now and some research says that endo scratch on a day of ec significantly reduces chances of implantation!!!? 
But then I wouldn't know whether it'd have implanted anyway but every little might either help or prevent, u never know what.

3d is different to the aquascan, no dye. Its more like standard TVS but the view in 3d which enables to see clearly what is what. They said that with 3d they have wider area of observation than in hysto. But again its a diagnostic tool, not operative. so, if there are problems identified, then would need hysteroscopy to remove.  

xxx


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## Louisej29

Hi ladies.  How are you all

Lovely to see the positive stories from those who have moved to de, helps those who are thinking of moving onto that. 

Re the hysteroscopy discussion I think if you have had a few failed cycles it is definitely worth doing. I had one after 2 mcs and it was good to have my mind put at rest that all was well and no problems detected.  

Never heard of endo scratch on day of EC before though. Is meant to be at a specific time in your cycle- but I guess all the clinics are doing things differently

Big hugs to choco.  Hope you are coping ok xxxx


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## CHOCOCHINE

struggling, not finding being single that enjoyable, trying to deal with 3rd ivf failure, still bleeding a little from erpc, hope to start exercising next week as shoulder ok, a least will lose my ivf weight. 
will keep you posted with regards my review but i am expecting to have to to donoe eggs or embryos or adoption, but not feeling emotionally stable to take on adoption until at least next year, and probably wouldnt do another ivf cycle til sept/oct. why is life so hard sometimes x


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## hopeful68

Hi Choco, looking at the date of your post, I think you must have stunned everyone in to silence. My excuse - been away helping dad clear out 30 yrs of 'stuff' so he can sell the family home and move in to a new one with the new woman (as you can tell, not overly happy!!). any how, I hope given the lapsed time you are starting to see wood for trees and get a perspective on your current and future plans. hopefully your family have been supportive towards you. Hugs to you     and I hope someone close to you gives you some real ones - otherwise just grab a stranger for a hug!!  take care...


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## deblovescats

Hi choco
was so sorry to hear your news. I feel for you - I'm single too and it's so hard when everyone's in couples! So sorry about the miscarriage - it's so awful when you get that BFP but then it ends in miscarriage. Take your time to heal and get strong and then you can decide what you want to do! 
I had 2 BFNs in 2012 and that was hard enough! So I'm really on your side. I was lucky to get my BFP in 2013, and can't really believe it but I'm now nearly 32 weeks! Time is really galloping and so far all going well. Been having growth scans due to my age/? hypertension, but so far no worries. I've got to go for a scan on Monday to see location of placenta as it has been low lying. Count down to maternity leave.
Just wanted to say, don't give up choco - I know life's bad at the moment but you will come through it.
PM if you need to!
Deb


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## Louisej29

Deb.  wow can't believe you are 32 weeks. That seems to have gone fast! 

Good luck for your scan on Monday- wont be long before baby is here!!  X


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## Sushi Lover

*Choco*... so sorry I didn't respond to your last message... been a bit in the doldrums myself. How are you feeling now? I hope going back to the gym and exercising helped a bit... it always does me. Did you make any decisions regarding next steps? Life is so hard... and I wish I had the answers why. Some people seem to always fall on their feet and have good luck, whilst others not so much. I think it is cyclical though... so all of us BFN girls on this board are due a change in luck soon. 

*Hopeful*... I bet that was hard clearing out all the stuff in your old family home for your Dad to 'move on' ... especially as his choice of partner isn't to your liking! I suppose he's happy though right? So that has to be a good thing? Tough for you though. How's life anyway?

*Debs*... blimey, 32 weeks has flown!! I'm so pleased everything is going well.. When is EDD? Must be end of June? When do you go on maternity leave?

*Louise*... Even though I've said congratulations thousands of times on text!!! I need to say it again... brilliant news re your BFP on IVF number 6! When is your first scan? Are you feeling ok? I bet it's so surreal. Over the moon for you and DH.

*Fififi*... hope all is well honey? I think you may be having a bit of time out from FF as haven't seen your name on here for a while. Post soon when you feel like a catch-up.

*AFM*.... DE cycle in June. Will start down-regging early June and out to Serum few weeks after that. I just couldn't go through the trauma of another OE cycle and probable BFN .. so I pray DE will be the answer for me after all these years of disappointment.

p.s. had to change name for a mixture of reasons....

xxx


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## CHOCOCHINE

thanks girls my review was ok, i could do one more ivf with own eggs but less than 10% chance, he said my fsh level was good.
as for relationship ex really thinks over he says he has not been happy for a while, knew he didn't love me enough to marry me, things not right. that hurts so much. hes back now after 6 weeks and life looks ok to him, i think he doesn't really how painful it was for me to leave home, lose baby, lose him, i used to like my own company but now dread it, very lonely and isolated living in country with parents, strugling. trying to go out, still not sleeping, i am running myself ragged. can't imagine dating let alone another relationship  but thanks for thing of me
could luck debs love s cats x


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## fififi

Hi all,

Apologies for absence but been trying to give myself a chance to clear head. Not really worked as still been thinking of all those if onlys and getting hacked off with all the ladies I see daily with young babies & *** in their hand!!!
Had my review yesterday & consultant can't really see much else to change should we have another attempt - we switched to DE for that cycle. His opinion was pretty much it was bad luck rather than any hurdle we'd not previously considered. Only thing suggested was I had hysteroscopy in run up to down reg instead of scratch.
My DH is slowly coming around to fact I'm not going to be able to move on until I've had a final try. My brain is saying that with a 50/50 chance if we have 2 goes we've done best we can. Heart would probably continue forever but at point now where it is a lot of money just gone and our quality of life will be badly affected if we don't stop soon. So am feeling hopeful that will be able to have one last try but also scared cos if that doesn't work that really has to be it.

Choco - my you've been through some rough stuff lately. Relationships really take a battering in this process. If I hadn't already got a DD from previously successful tx I know I'd be single by now. The arguments & pressure due to our ivf has become off the scale - surprised neighbours not put a card for Relate through our door!
Do hope you manage to sort out what is right for you soon. Perhaps you & ex can work it out? It was terrible timing on his part and can only begin to imagine how broken you must be feeling by all the recent losses    

Kirsty - my sushi friend!!!! I'm quite intrigued by name change - perhaps you can pm me & fill me in on juicy details!!!!
Glad you're feeling strong enough to try for another cycle & have managed to cross that huge divide and accepted the better odds of DE. For me it was the initial decision to try DE that was the hardest. I then got another wobble a couple of weeks before about to start but once cycling felt pretty ok about it. Your chances are so much higher now and really hope it means you'll be a mummy soon  

Debs - echo the others in that it's amazing how fast time gone for you. You must be getting very excited now. Hope all still progressing as should be  

Hopeful - sorry to see your dad moving closer to the new woman. Hope you're not getting too hurt by his actions and you've some good friends around to help you see it's him being inconsiderate. Hugs   

Must dash as lots to do tonight so will have to leave rest of my catching up for now.
Big hugs & warm wishes to all those I've not mentioned. Hope there's some good news been happening that you've not had time to post


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## LellyLupin

Hi Girls!!!  So sorry I haven't been on here for so long, as some of you know I have been having the most horrendous year I have ever had,  so I haven't had the time or the strength to post.  Thank you for the PM messages I have received from some of you, I really appreciate the thoughts and good wishes.  To give a little recap on the year, January my aunt died, February I was made redundant after 28 years, March I had to have Toby (the horse) put to sleep and Suzy (my 16 year old pup) was ill and nearly followed suit. April Mum went into respiratory failure and nearly died in front of me, and May Dad had a stroke and has just come out of hospital. To top it off my  friend (the bi-polar one) had a second baby, so as you can see I have struggled a bit to stay  positive so thought it better to duck out for a while.  That doesn't mean I haven't been thinking about you all and hoping you are all ok.  When I get a minute I will back track through the posts and catch up with you all.  Just wanted to pop in to say I hope you are all well and to send you all some love

Take care 
Lesley
xxx


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## LellyLupin

Me again, just read back through the posts and wanted to give Fifi a big  . 

Also to say I re-read my post and it sounds so negative,  so wanted to put some positivity back in there, I found a new job and start on 23rd June (my Birthday) more money and shorter hours  , Mam is much better now  and Dad is recovering very well  .  Suzy is also doing good at the moment and I am minding my Aunts (who died) little dog for a while so I feel I am doing something good in her memory.  So its not all doom and gloom.  Haven't been to see the new baby yet, (I will though).

AJW twins wow lucky you I am so pleased for you and very very envious   

Debs glad everything is going well for you.  How are your fur babies doing and are you going to share your baby names thoughts? xx

Everyone else good luck for those in treatment and a huge  to all xx


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## fififi

Welcome back Lesley    
Had planned to email you over weekend as realised I owe you a reply. So sorry to hear things continued going in negative direction with family illnesses since we last spoke. So pleased your dad & mum both are back on mend & hopefully from now on it'll be lots of positives you're posting about.
Lots of luck with new job - is it similar type of work. Good news that money & hours are better.
Hope things with DP have gone ok during your rocky time elsewhere. You'll find the strength to see new baby soon but take it at your own pace and don't feel pressurised by your friend to do more than you can.

AFM - I'm currently being bombarded by pregnancy news & new arrivals. I've good & bad days. What hurt most was my DD coming home from school to tell me her friend's mum was having my baby. I was confused at first & then she explained that her friend's mum had somehow got my wish as her friend had been adamant her parents weren't wishing for a baby when my dd had asked her! So pants that not only is my life spoilt by fact I can't get a baby but my DD at any opportunity is thinking about it too.
Work all bit stressful at present. We got a new head a few weeks ago & she's needing to make big changes as budget it shot and she's now got to sort it out. Lots of redundancies for those on temporary contracts. Thankfully that won't affect me as have permanent contract but she is needing to change my role and quite probably days I work. Hoping it pans out ok but am currently pretty concerned.

Hope everyone else is doing ok & have good things happening in their lives.
Big hugs to all


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## mfmcmoo

Hi All

Just visiting the site doing some research for my sister in law and was reading through a few posts. I just wanted to ask you all if you were taking supplements or had looked into taking supplements to help. When I was trying, I did a huge amount of research and put together this list http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=294994.0 
Hope it helps. It worked for me and we will see how my sister in law does with it.

Holding thumbs for you all


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## LellyLupin

Hi Feefs, its pants isn't it, I know how you feel  ,  my Bi-polar friend wasn't even thinking about babies till I opened my big gob and that was it,  she went into competition mode and being 11 years younger obviously fell.  It was my dream not hers.  It kills me sometimes to have to be enthusiastic for her and coo over the baby when inside I am so bloody annoyed.  Then I have to take stock and get over it otherwise it burns you up which isn't healthy.  It does hurt though, the ache for a baby is something that unless you have been there you just can't understand.  People just don't get that its not the baby I ache for,  its the relationship over the years, people think I just want a cute baby to hold grrrr.  

The job is exactly the same just over the other side of the road, on a different plant.  I hope your job will be safe, it does nothing for your self esteem to be made redundant, especially when the person making the decision gets to keep your job, my boss has taken over my role to bolster his own!   The worst thing about losing my job was I was going to try donor sperm but now I am starting somewhere else I am on a six month probation period so can't afford to get pregnant, I need the job, and if I do I won't be entitled to maternity leave. 

I am hoping for positives now Feefs, but as long as Mam and Dad stay well that's enough for me, I never want to go through that again I nearly lost both parents in a matter of weeks.  Dad was very very lucky, his artery was 90% blocked and he was in danger every second before he had his op.  He had a mini-stroke when we were visiting, so traumatic, I screamed for the nurse to come, I must have frightened every one to death!  Hes doing well now and only his index finger is affected, hes having trouble with picking things up and doing up his buttons but in the grand scheme of things he definitely dodged a bullet.

Hope things get better for you honey, I know its tough  

Cheers for the list mfmcmoo xx


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## Coolish

I had redundancy twice in 2 years. It's rubbish for your self esteem.  I also ended up doing that 6 month wait before cycling due to probationary periods. On the positive side, it did give me money to help me cycle...


----------



## LellyLupin

And what a cute little lady you got Jules, shes absolutely beautiful xx


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## Coolish

Thanks Lesley! Well I think she's gorgeous. That pic was a while ago, when she'd just started smiling. She's now 24 weeks and people keep telling me she's looking more and more like me each day. She's a cheeky little monkey. Pleased to hear your parents are doing OK now. I had similar things with my parents just before Christmas. My Dad was rushed in after collapsing with pneumonia, low blood pressure and a few other things. Then he had a relapse just after Christmas and then a couple of weeks later my mum was in there with stomach problems. I can really appreciate how stressful it all is. 

Hi to everyone else, including the newly named Kirsty!


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## LellyLupin

Aha Sushi lover is Kirsty! I wondered who that was, hope you are ok Kirsty I have just been reading through your posts  

Jules has motherhood been all that you expected?  Is it harder or easier?  I bet you look at her and can't believe shes here xx


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## deblovescats

hi guys
so glad to see you back with us lesley - you've had the most horrendous year haven't you? If you want to (and can face seeing the baby) we could meet up! You're not too far away. Glad you've got a new job and sounding more positive. Elderly parents are a worry. My father died about 8 years ago, but mum still here - pretty fit for her age, but needing a knee replacement, which got postponed and then was re-scheduled to just before I'm due so she cancelled for the time being and will be re-referred when little one here. I know what you mean about your friend - I used to feel the same - two colleagues fell pregnant unplanned with third when I was considering tx.
fiffi - hope the job is ok, its always a worry.
jules - glad you're ok.
AFM - doing fine - I think consultant was pleasantly surprised that everythings been ok despite concerns about me being an older mum! I'm 36 weeks on Sat so scarily coming closer. Due date is 12th July, but I have provisionally been booked in for c-section on 4th July as low lying placenta not yet moved up enough. It's not actually placenta praevia - not covering os at all, is about 1cm away but needs to be more. I have another scan next Wed when consultant will review and if it's moved enough, I can have normal delivery. I'd rather not have an op especially being single, but obviously main thing is safety of baby. I'm going for traditional names but not sure yet till I see LO. Just about got everything sorted and finish work next Friday. Had a baby shower last week organised by a work colleague - gorgeous gifts and everyone excited so my fears about their reaction were groundless. Going out to lunch next Fri and going to get more gifts. Everyone's been generous.
I really wish everyone trying/ considering tx good luck. 
Will update.
Deb


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## LellyLupin

Wow Debs 12th July is not far away at all, it seems to have flown.  I guess all your reactions will be different from now on now you don't have baby heartache to contend with.  I will definitely would love to meet up when you have the baby.  I wouldn't be jealous because I know what you've been through to get to this point,  and you deserve this baby you really do.  Glad to hear you are going for traditional names, can't stand all these made up ones.  Are you nervous about the birth?  Who are you going to have with you in the delivery room?  Does the baby feel like yours?  Are you excited about having the baby home?  Do you want a boy or girl ideally?  Do you think you will have more in the future?  Look at me questions all the time - sorry debs  

Continuing my bad luck theme of the year   I was out with my little dog lodger the day before yesterday and we were attacked by a pit bull cross.  Luckily the little dog got off relatively bite free as I held her above my head,  but I have a few bites and scratches and bruises.  The police are looking for the owner as I obviously didn't get his name in the chaos.  I could only really describe the dog as it was my main focus,  but luckily a lady came out of her house as she could hear my dog screaming and me screaming at the pitbull to get off me, so she has given a very good description of the guy.  Must admit to being totally freaked out,  but after a trip to the vets, the hospital (for a tetanus) and the police station and several cups of tea my blood pressure has just about settled.


----------



## fififi

Lesley - can't believe you've had yet another scary experience. Think might need to post you a lorry full of bubble wrap with strict instructions to delivery company they are to cover you & home in it!
Do hope you & your doggy ok.   

Debs - wow, am shocked you're nearly at d day! Am feeling all excited for you!!! Will cross fingers that baby moves into better position so you can avoid op. Do keep us updated ... as you are one of my big sources of hope that this crazy journey can result in happy ever after.
Oooohhhh how exciting


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## Coolish

Lesley - my goodness, it all happens to you at the moment.  I agree, we need to send you a lorry load of bubble wrap!

Debs - I had an elective c-section.  It was a lovely experience. A lot of people were telling me I'd be laid up for at least 2 weeks and not able to lift the baby. Tosh! I was up and about the next day,  a bit sore but mobile. I could manage to pick up the baby too during the night. I was driving within 2 weeks and taking the baby to baby massage and a couple of other groups. I know everyone is different but it's really not as bad as some people say. I think recovery from elective rather than emergency is much better. I had a 50% chance of an emergency c-section so opted for an elective as I thought it was safer fot the little one.


----------



## deblovescats

lesley - you're really having some horrendous luck at the moment! How scary! It must be your turn for your luck to change! I'll definitely arrange to meet up once LO is here. I really don't mind what I have - main thing is baby is fine. It seems so close now - seemed to drag at first, as I never really let myself think it was happening just in case. I wasn't showing for ages - so didn't seem real, midwife said must be cos I've got very firm stomach muscles (don't know why - definitely not exercise!) Now I seem to be growing by the day and look pretty massive! My sister is provisionally down as birth partner but as she works for BA and although she's booked leave, you never know with babies, and the other problem is she's very squeamish! She doesn't want to look so not sure how useful that'll be! Plan B is my mum! As for egg donation, I really don't have a problem with it - not told anyone else - I wanted to maximise my chances and this seemed best way. Also, I feel like I've been nurturing and carrying baby so I feel like the mum. I have 3 embryos on ice, so my plan is to try for a sibling in the future all being well. Despite all the doom laden predictions that you get for example in the media about older mums - touch wood, the pregnancy has been fine and I've felt absolutely great on the whole! All my colleagues have commented that I'm coping much better than a colleage who's pregnant, 6 weeks behind me, and only 26 - she's moaned the entire time, is much bigger than me as she eats unhealthy snacks for England! We got the moans about morning sickness, pains etc! Just goes to show - it depends on how healthy we are and how we look after ourselves! So don't anyone let the stuff you read put you off. Thanks lesley for your kind words.
fiffi - glad to inspire, you deserve to get your happy outcome, don't give up.
jules - thanks for your words - it makes me feel more relaxed. I've been reading the leaflet they gave me at the hospital and I must say it does verge on the negative side! Good to hear a positive experience. At the end of the day, my main concern is that my baby is delivered safely! That's what I'm focusing on. I have the consultant appointment next Wed so we'll see then.
the good side is that all my work colleagues are rallying round - I've even had offers to take me to the hospital in the middle of the night if necessary! They're all very excited and are planning on popping in to see baby and me! I've had to promise to do a tour of the different baby clinics as they are want the chance to weigh the little one! 
lesley and fiffi - I'm so so hoping that you get your good outcomes, you so both deserve it!
I'll keep you posted
Deb


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## LellyLupin

I know I am pretty sure someone has put a hex on me this year, if I don't win the lottery soon then there is something seriously wrong  .  Both pooch and I are ok just a big bruise on my arm where the dog was hanging of me.  The police have been and have done door to door but nio luck on the guy and the dog yet.  I don't want it to be destroyed, I just want it to be under control.

So excited for your baby coming Deb and not even a smidgen of jealousy, as Feefs said you are our glimmer of hope in a hopeless situation  (if that makes sense).  I still hope one day to be a Mum, I have so much love to give no wonder I rescue everything it has to come out somewhere.    My Mum was telling me yesterday that my Aunts granddaughter has just had a baby and doesn't want it - unbelievable when there are so many of us desperate for a child.  I just want that connection and to try and make a childs life magical and happy, I rarely see my stepkids anymore as they are grown up and doing their own thing so I am feeling a bit emptynesty.

Glad to hear everything is going ok Deb sorry for all the questions, I have a million of them I could ask.  I so wish we were closer so I could quiz you face to face    Hope you will be posting a pic of your new baby for us to admire,  Jules baby is so cute, I love her name too.  

Hi Fifi I think I will take you up on the bubblewrap, then things could just bounce off me


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## fififi

Aggggggrrrrrr just had phone call from my sister to say she's 20 weeks pg with what will be her 10th child!!!!! Just to add insult to injury she's due exactly when I would have been had my cycle in Feb worked. Life really is unfair.


----------



## LellyLupin

Oh Fifi    Life is   it really is.  It must be so hard for you, I have just had the news that my cousin is pregnant too, its so awful getting the news because you want to be pleased for the person,  but your own situation just becomes even more highlighted.  Thing I hate most is when the papers say 'Mother of two, or 'Mother of four'' as if women are only defined by whether they have children or not, they never give a thought to those of us who can't have them, it drives me nuts.  I am so sorry for you sweetie x


----------



## fififi

Others pregnancies are so hard to tolerate but when your own sister is the most fertile woman on planet & you're useless it really sucks. Worst part is she has no space & not enough time for kids she has already got. I can't even feel happy for her cos I feel she already has too many children. Still gives me a better chance of stealing one of them at Xmas cos she will struggle to notice they've gone! Keep expecting her to pop up on telly on some stupid documentary programme re big families. She's friends with the people on that 15 kids & counting.

How is it possible siblings can be dealt such opposing cards?!!! Really feel low now & becoming ever more distant from my own family because of the torment.
Will focus on the sunny weather and enjoy fact it seems like we're going to have sunny weekend


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## Sushi Lover

Hi ladies, sorry for radio silence... been on hols!

Had to change my name as someone joined another thread I was on that I'm pretty sure I know, an acquaintance more than a friend, who doesn't know about our fertility issues.... and I feel really strongly about my privacy when it comes to this kind of thing. Especially with donor eggs as my next step. Being on this forum you protected in some way, but when someone from 'real life' invaded my bubble I got a bit panicky! So I am now 'Sushi Lover' !!

*Lesley*... welcome back honey. It's good to see your name and posts again. I know you've had a tough year from your PMs, but goodness, what a cr*p time you've had poor thing. I can't believe all the things you've been through with your parents, Toby, Suzi, your job, your friend's second baby! Jeez. You sound a lot more like your old self again now though, so I'm pleased. Glad your Mum and Dad are on the mend and you have a new job... let's hope the second half of 2014 is kind to us all. p.s. the Pitbull attack sounds terrifying!

*Fififi*... so sorry I haven't replied to your last PM yet. I just don't know where the time goes. As for your sister... her 10th?! Seriously? I just don't understand why there is no justice when it comes to things like this. Some people have no children or one and others are in double figures. Just doesn't seem bloody fair. It is the toughest thing to hear when close friends or family announce their pregnancies. As Lesley says, it highlights your own situation even more and makes you feel even more sad. Another unhappy bi-product of infertility is that you do start to distance yourself from your family even more... I know I do. Also friends with children. Just makes you low being around them. I will PM you hun. Take care.

*Debs*.... your pregnancy has flown by!!! I truly cannot believe you have only 4 weeks to go. How lovely about the baby shower from your work colleagues. They have been so kind to you from the outset haven't they? Genuinely happy for you etc. How wonderful that you were only met with encouragement and kind words. I know some people in their 40's who's been subjected to unkind comments when they announce pregnancies. People can be so obtuse and cruel about older Mums. Keep us in touch with your progress hun and hope the warm weather isn't too uncomfortable for you.

*Jules*.... would love to see and updated photo of your gorgeous girl!! Sorry to hear your parents have been ill too... it's scary when they get older isn't it?

*AFM*... well, I am now down-regged and will be starting my meds tomorrow for my 1st ever DE cycle!! Had news today regarding my lovely donor and she sounds perfect. I am almost worried DP will ask Penny for her phone number from the description I was given!! haha. Actually feeling ok about it. Better than I thought. It will feel weird not doing all the injections, but I feel so much more relaxed this way around, so that had to be a good thing. No stress of those scans to see if the follicles have grown etc. Fly out to Athens at the end of June I think. Just thinking this the best chance we've ever had and our success rates are increased so much, so I feel more positive than previously with OE. I am wary this is a BFN thread so I don't want to upset anyone by babbling on about my cycle. So I won't go on too much girls! I am excited though.

Nice sunny weekend to everyone xxx


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## Chandlerino

Just wanted to pop by and say hello - I read the thread but dont post much.

Sushi lover good luck in Athens - I fly out for consult with Peny on 23th July and hoping to have a DE cycle in Sept. Probably have to have the dreaded hysto but hey ho needs must. Last shot in the fertility world - I have had about as much disappointment as I can take and not to mention the amount of dosh I am in debt for with nothing to show for it.

Sending much love to you all.

Chand x


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## fififi

Kirsty - will reply to pm soon.
How exciting that you're all set for the next step. I found it just like most other cycles as due to still taking drugs it was as if they'd changed protocol slightly rather than not truly my cycle. Only weird day was EC as obviously I didn't go into theatre so there was no substitute there. However the wait for fertilisation felt same as my previous ones and from then on they were our embryos & donor pretty much forgotten.
Really hoping you get the joy you deserve and this extra step helps create the miracle you've been waiting for.

Chanderino - been wondering how things are with you. Glad you've got a plan for final cycle in place. Serum seems popular & with great results so hopefully you too will be another smiling success story soon too.
Do keep us updated as to how things progress.

Hi & hugs to everyone else


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## Sushi Lover

*Chand*.... good luck for your consultation with Penny in July. You will love her. She is so different from any other consultant I've ever met. Has that caring, bed-side manner a lot of them seem to lack. Very warm and personal. Isn't it awful being in so much debt and having nothing to show for it? I'm so fed up spending all my hard-earned cash with no positive outcome and with zero enjoyment! I wish you luck at Serum and hope your Sept cycle is a lucky one.

*Fififi*.... I've been taken all my tablets and doing my clexane injections all weekend, so it feels ok so far. I can imagine EC will be a weird day.. but because DP's sperm is frozen, neither of us need to be there. So hopefully the day will just pass by with no big deal. If he was at the clinic and I wasn't, then it would feel a bit odd. I think Penny tells you as little as possible regarding fertilisation and embryo development, unless you ask. She feels the worry is counter-productive and wants you to be as relaxed as possible. So I will see how that pans out. I like to be in control massively! So I may need some info to keep me sane. Most ladies can wait until they get to Athens for their ET to find out any details about embryo quality and numbers... not sure I can do that! We shall see. Thanks for good wishes 

xxx


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## Coolish

I didn't ask what day EC was, but could work it out from when Penny told me ET would be. To be honest, I didn't really think about it. I did email Penny though, I think it was the day before we flew out, just to ask how many embies there were. My OH has fab sperm so we ended up with 6 going to blast. My ET with Penny was the easiest and most relaxed I'd ever had - I felt like saying "is that it?". 

Chandlerino - don't worry about the hysto being 'dreaded'. It really isn't anything to dread. The hospital and docs are lovely and the guy who wheeled me upstairs was gorgeous! I'm convinced it was a major factor in my BFP last year, so nothing to dread at all


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## Sushi Lover

*Jules*... I think it's best not to know when EC is. Being a bit more removed from it has got to be more relaxing. I think I will do the same and ask a few days before I fly about how many embies etc. At the moment we are still in a quandary about DP's sperm as Penny has suggested using half and half because of motility issues. We are both veering towards ICSI for all the eggs with DP's sperm as it's psychologically tough to move to DD straight away. It's a tough call though.

*Chand*... I agree with Jules. There is nothing to dread hun. My hysto was so straightforward and I felt really calm about it. The nurses, doctors, theatre staff, porters are all so pleasant and speak perfect English. I wasn't kept waiting and was kept informed all the way along what was going on. I went on my own as well! A better experience than a lot of English hospitals... NHS or private!

x


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## fififi

Kirsty - glad all going well so far.
Hope you manage to make final decision re whether to do 50/50 or not. It's horrid having choices when no-one really knows which option is THE right one. My way of doing these things now is to choose the option I'd regret not doing least. So - worse case scenario - if cycle failed and you'd just gone with DPs sperm would you regret that more than if it worked and was DS.

Am feeling quite excited for you - your positivity is very infectious so hopefully it will be passed on to those embies once you meet them.


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## Coolish

It's a hard move Kirsty but I think I'd opt for half and half. Then if you find that the eggs mixed with hubbie's sperm aren't doing too well, you have the back up of the DD embies, which should be doing well. You could always have them frozen if you still need a little time to think it over.


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## Chandlerino

Awh thanks ladies I feel reassured but more worried about whether DD and DH will get their passports back in time.....

Can't wait to go tbh x


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## artist_mum

Hi Kirsty

I agree with CoolJules. Penny would not use the donor ones if your DP's are doing the job. She could decide that at the time.. and as cooljules says, at least if you have organised it in advance then it's a back up plan rather than not having the cycle at all (if it came to that). In our case we had arranged both and as it turned out both DP and donor worked but only 1 from DP.

We were very against it at the beginning but are glad now that we gave it our all. Our thinking was that if it failed (which it has in our case) we would then be looking at adoption in which case the child is neither of ours _and_ not carried by me. So better a DD child carried by you than the other options. It's a totally personal thing I know and for us it was a no brainer because we knew it was our last IVF.. good luck deciding.

xx


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## LellyLupin

Wow Artist Mum  Just read your diary and I can totally identify with some of the things you are saying.  Especially the skids comments, its VERY hard to be a step parent and be childless no matter how much you love the kids themselves, until you are in that situation you can't appreciate the mixed emotions the situation brings.  Hurt, guilt, resentment, grief, pride, jealousy, love, rage, despair, fatigue, isolation,  its all in there in one form or another, my stepkids have brought me a lot of joy but also a lot of pain, not intentionally of course but the situation highlights your own childlessness and this brings its own demons, no matter how nice a person you are.  If I could have my time over again would I chose a man with children?  Hell No  - I would have ran a mile in the opposite direction!  So as one childless stepmother to another I am sending you the biggest   I can summon and let you know you are not alone Roxy xx


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## LellyLupin

Very excited about Kirsty and Chandlerinos tx, just think girls this could be the one for you both    I truly hope you both get your dream and join Jules and Debs in their happiness.  The more I think and hear about DE the more it appeals, I have some rogue genes which thinking about it,  would I really want to pass on to a child, severe migraines, really bad eyesight, awful feet, thin hair  etc, with a DE child its so exciting as you don't really know what your child will be like,  and won't be worrying what bad things it may inherit (should you have any bad genes).  I used to think I only wanted a child that was mine and DPs but now I don't care,  I just want to be a Mum to someone.  Of course ideally we all want our own and our partners babies,  but in the grand scheme of things does it really matter, don't we all just want to make a childs life happy and secure, and pour our love into a little being that will love us back.  I wish I had just gone straight to donor sperm when I found out that DP had had a vasectomy and I was still young enough to conceive.  Hind sight is a wonderful thing


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## Sushi Lover

Thanks for the replies girls.

I would like to wait and see how many eggs we get first and then make a decision about half and half.  If there are only 5 eggs for example it doesn't seem worth splitting.  But higher numbers would make more sense.

Problem is, DP just can't get his head around it.  Says he will have nothing to do with the actual conception and is worried about bonding because of this.  Pretty sure, once he sees the positive pregnancy test and comes to scans/sees my bump growing etc. he will feel differently about it.  But, it is a decision he will have to make on his own because he wants it too, rather than 'doing it for me'.  Because we haven't ruled this out as our last ever chance I'm thinking that DD would be the natural next step ....

I just don't know...  I am happy to do half and half now and compare the results/embryo quality etc.  But if DP isn't entirely happy with that, then the last thing I want to do his overrule him and make the final decision.  Has to be a choice we are both happy with.  Otherwise it could cause all sorts of problems with our relationship and I really don't want to jeopardise that after all we've been through together.


xx


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## fififi

Kirsty - in your shoes I think I'd be doing same as DH would never want to try DS. We had long chat & he was keener on adoption to DS as felt there would be no link for him yet I'd have a link. Adoption would put us both in same place. At first I felt this was rubbish as I was "losing" my link by using DE but having researched epigenetics and knowing I'd be carrying baby we figured my link would still be pretty strong.
This is about you both expanding your family and ny moving to DE you're already improving your chances loads. You need to do what you're both happy with. Plus, if you have finances & strength to know this doesn't have to be only attempt then that should make things little easier to take a gamble. At the end of day either option brings chances of success and hopefully this will be your happy ever after


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## Highland

Hi,

Not sure if this is the right place to post. This morning got a bfn, im 2 days overdue, so was slightly hopeful. We're doing things naturally with acupuncture as that worked last time.  Its just I feel so down and tearful, and no one to talk to about it, I know we are so lucky already, but that doesn't stop me sitting here all red eyed.


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## Sushi Lover

*Highland*... I'm so sorry to read about your BFN and your pregnancy losses... they must have been heartbreaking... and that you are down and tearful about it. It is perfectly understandable to feel this way, so try not to beat yourself up about it. You need time to grieve ... so have a few tears and feel sorry for yourself. The worst thing is to try and keep it all in, as we all know, bottling things up make them seem worse. You are posting in the right place. All us girls on here have multiple BFNs between us ... sadly. But I'm sorry you've had to join us as it isn't a nice feeling at all. You can 'talk' to us. The little thread has kept me going this past year and half. All the ladies on here are caring, sympathetic, empathic and we have tons of information and advice to share from our experiences. Be reassured in the knowledge we all know how you feel as have been there at some point over the years.

Are you having any assisted treatment at all to help in achieving your dream? Ovulation kits or follicle scans and timed intercourse perhaps? Have you had any blood tests to see what your AMH, FSH, progesterone levels are like? It's so difficult getting into your 40's as you don't really know what is achievable or not with regards to conceiving and it's all a bit "holding a finger in the air". Some of us are lucky with our own eggs still... and others not. Sadly luck plays a big part even with IUI or IVF... it's still not guaranteed as we all know.

Anyway, I won't go on... if you need someone to talk to, we are all here.

Take care and be kind to yourself... do something nice that makes you feel happy... an ice-cold glass of white wine, relaxing massage, sitting in the sun, your favourite meal out in a restaurant, spending time with your other half or daughter.

xxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Fifi*... thanks for your lovely message hun. I know it's hard for my DP as he feels he won't be 'part of it', the conception part anyway, and I think he would be of the same option as your hubby and prefer adoption as you are both at the same starting point. However, that would take away my chance of carrying a baby, going through the experience of pregnancy and child-birth.. which I'd like to think he wouldn't do. I mean, he has biological children already, so it's not as if this would be his only chance to pass on his genes! It sounds like this is all about me doesn't it?! But in a selfish kind of way it is!!! I think it's my turn now! 

I still want us to make the right decision together that we are both happy with though. So there is no point me banging on about it and wearing him down. Very wary of the harm things like that can do to a relationship. I do think it makes sense that if we get more than 10 eggs for example, to fertilise them half and half and see what the results are like on day 5. Even if it's more experimentally than anything else. Transfer his ones first and see what happens... freeze the others as a back-up. Surely that is a sensible way forward that he will agree with right?!

Arrrgghhh... all these thoughts are going round and round in my head! I'll talk to him about it again later. Thinking about this continually can't be good for me.

xx


----------



## fififi

Quick post as got rushed to hospital last night with extreme abdominal pain - isn't apendicitis but doctor thinks may be ovarian cyst either enlarged or rupturing. Having scan today & dosed up on drugs so feeling very floaty & pain now more of discomfort than anything else which is big improvement. Got sent to local hospital so new set of gynae doctors now "exploring" my body!!! I've endo & ovulated at weekend so quite likely it's a cyst so not too worried now the doubling over pain has gone. Everyone very nice at hospital yesterday & felt very looked after so hopefully it's just a blip and won't have major implications on any future treatment    


Kirsty - your current "logic" makes sense to me. Having had rough time with DH due to all this tx I definitely agree you both need to be "happy" with what you're doing. My DH has agreed to another cycle because I want to do it - on this horrid journey it's unlikely you'll both be in exactly same place so ultimately one person will be the "me" one.
Hopefully your DP will be willing to try 50/50 on basis that you won't need the other embies but if not you are still going to be in a way better position than you were with OE.


Highland - thoughts with you at this horrid time. Life sucks and the pain of not getting pg combined with pain of MC is one that never seems to go away no matter what we do to try and "forget" it.
Sorry you've had to come to join us but welcome to our group & hopefully it will help in some way


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## Sushi Lover

Oh no* Fifi*...poor you! That's all you need. The things us girls have to go through. Hopefully it's just a cyst that needs aspirating then. Sometimes those 'chocolate'/blood-filled cysts that are linked to endometriosis can cause extreme pain. Have you suffered with them before? I don't remember you ever saying that you have? I suppose it could just be a one off.

I understand what you mean about not necessarily being in the same frame of mind at the same time. Hard isn't it? Sorry you are having a rough time with your hubby. My marriage to my first husband ended up breaking down because of the stresses of infertility and I'm very conscious not to let my current relationship go the same way. I'm pretty sure we can find a compromise of some description.

Going for intralipids later and lining scan on Monday. So it's all moving ahead now. If my donor's stimulation is going well, reckon I'll be in Athens week after next!

Take care hun and get well soon xx


----------



## fififi

Hospital was pretty hopeless yesterday. Nurse doing scan couldn't view my right ovary due to my "bowel being in the way" so had to give up. After long wait saw a doctor who kept going out to speak to someone more senior. Why the senior person couldn't just come in was beyond me. After 2 and bit hours they said they couldn't figure out what was causing the pain and since I'd told them I have endo decided it was probably that & all they could offer me was some pain relief & an appointment in about 4 weeks time!
I've never had any endo pain before so find it odd that I should go from none to extreme pain that leaves me doubled over in agony. Plus am also little dubious that if they couldn't view the ovary how they can be certain there's no torted or enlarged cyst there. Have booked appointment with my GP this morning so hoping he can refer me to hospital linked to my fertility clinic instead as at least there they have my history.
Pain killers are working and although emotionally & physically shattered am feeling bit better thankfully.


Kirsty - exciting stuff. Hope intralipids went ok and your lining scan Mon shows a good thick lining for you.


----------



## artist_mum

quickie post to say thanks *lesley* for the hug! And it's lovely to hear from you. hope you are doing OK? I haven't been writing too much on these threads - well mostly on the step parenting one to keep my sanity as Ive got through the last 'bfn with steppies' 
I think one of the most frustrating aspects of having step children is that they take up so much time (poor things, i hate to say that about them!) and months go by when we haven't done things for ourselves as we sort them out, plan things for them, deal with their mother etc. Especially hard for DP working full time and 2 week day nights plus 2 full weekends through to monday morning drop off with them which he loves of course but it's hard to fully focus on other projects with the comings and goings. Luckily we are finally settled in court which was in our favour thankfully but only got resolved the week of our bfn. So no chance for even one IVF without interference and stress which I"m quite bitter about - although working on losing that feeling, it's not a productive one! But we are able to go forward now - although no more IVF for us. Hope your journey is going OK and you are making your way towards your own fulfilment. Look after yourself won't you.

*kirsty* I completely get your point of view. Definitely needs to be a decision you are both comfy with. Fingers crossed for you now in this next couple of weeks 

*highland* I"m a bit sporadic at posting on here but just wanted to say hi and so very sorry to hear about your bfn. It is a difficult time to say the least so hope you are putting yourself first, lots of treats and hope the grief passes. Best wishes to you.

*fififi* Long time no contact! Sorry to hear about your current medicals, sounds tricky stuff. I hope they get to the bottom of it soon and hope you're feeling better by now anyway.

Hi to anyone else on here: Debs - exciting times! Moomin - hiya, hope you are well. Chandler, Cooljules and other readers - Wishing you a happy sunny summer 

xxx


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi Roxy  I am ok, like you and the rest of the girls I still struggle on a day to day basis with the concept that I may never be a mother.  Today has been particularly hard for some reason, could be cos I FBed my friends new baby, (yes I like to torture myself  ) .  I think its worse when I am mid cycle,  for some reason my boobs really hurt and that makes me think I might be pregnant (impossible),  so it sends me down that thought route again.  I just wish I could just STOP wanting a family, I wonder if hypnosis would work    Totally understand your step parenting issues, it doesn't change I am afraid to say, their needs will always come first which can be really annoying but totally understandable.  My skids are nearly grown now,  but we still find ourselves fitting in around their busy lives when they can be bothered to see us.    I find that hard at times,  when we haven't seen them for ages (their choice) and then we have to drop everything because they have decided they suddenly want to visit.  Its hard too,  to have the same enthusiasm as your partners and not feel resentful that they have their family and you don't.  I didn't know there was a step parenting thread I will have to check it out.  Keep strong Roxy and be kind to yourself, steppies dredge up so many emotions and only a saint can think nice thoughts 24/7, especially when you are in the situation we find ourselves in xx

Highland big  for you, BFNs are such a massive let down and until you've been there its impossible to understand.  All of us have been in your position and completely understand how you feel, we are always here if you need a shoulder xx

Feefs I hope you are feeling a bit better, how scary for you especially when they cant say what is wrong xx

Kirsty hope you are ok, hi to everyone else xx


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## LellyLupin

Still having a very sad week, does anyone else crave a baby more when they are mid-cycle?  I am hoping this is just hormones and it will go away soon, been filling up with tears all day and feeling so very sad.  It could also be that its my 47th birthday on Monday,  yet another reminder of time slipping away.  I so want to bring up DE With DP but for some reason I just can't get the words out, I just don't want the same old argument and the silent treatment.  Seeing Mam and Dad today,  and hearing them talk about their parents and various aunts and uncles has made me think about families,  and how my children won't relish hearing stories from the old days.  Just wish I could get out of this frame of mind, its not helping anyone.  Any advice?  Has anyone cracked the art of positive thinking in this situation?  I feel so at odds with everyone I speak to as everyone I know has children, I just can't escape it for long enough to regroup.  I know I have much to be grateful for, my parents, a nice home, a new job to look forward to,  so why does it all seem to pointless.  Sorry for the me post and for the maudlin tone girls xx


----------



## Coolish

Lesley - so sorry, you're feeling like that. I don't really have any good advice as I don't think I ever really cracked the art of positive thinking. Virtually every friend and every family member had kids, just not us. I spend a lot of time feeling left out, or even worse, jealous. I think lots of us on here know exactly how you're feeling - and the hormones don't help. It's just sometimes seem so much worse in family situations or with groups of close friends. 

This doesn't help with the individual situations, but what generally helped me was planning. I'm a planner. Whether is be planning decorating a room, planning a holiday or planning the next TX. I also love to read so, diving into a new book would let me forget about things for a little while. At one point I was reading a book every couple of days! Meeting up with frends wasn't often much help as they were generally pregnant with the 2nd or 3rd child!


----------



## LellyLupin

Thanks Jules  , I have cleaned the house from top to bottom this morning to try and get myself distracted.  I avidly read and watch telly just to take my mind off things, I truly don't think I will ever be happy without a family so I am going to have to try and speak to DP about DE,  I can't live like this the rest of my life its too hard.  I do feel isolated from my friends and family because all they talk about is children,  and all they post on ** is photos of children, night times are worse when I am laid in bed, I never sleep soundly because its always on my mind.  Now I am losing my little dog and I have lost my horse I don't seem to have a focus anymore, I must start planning something as you say xx

How are you finding motherhood?  Is it all you expected it to be?  Have you had any comments regarding your age and being a new mother?  Will you be planning a sibling?  Would love to hear how shes changed your life xx


----------



## deblovescats

Hi everyone
I'm so sorry to hear your health worries fiffi - sounds like the hospital doesn't know what it's doing! 
Lesley - so sorry to hear you're down. I think its hard not to get obsessed when a baby is the most important thing for you. When I had my BFNs I tried to focus on other projects, but I know how hard it is - I would plan my next attempt but was also looking into retraining courses to give me something else to think about. When I got my BFP, I had tested early, thought it was BFN so was actively going to apply for course then got my amazing BFP! 
I do so hope all you guys can get what you so deserve - it doesn't seem fair - I see such useless, feckless parents in my job, and it's frustrating that they're so fertile ,and loads of would be mums aren't and would be so lovely to have as a mum. 
AFM - still doing fine. I'm now 37 weeks. Last day at work Friday - we all went out for lunch and I got loads more presents! They've all been thoughtful - got loads of baby clothes, and two of my colleagues put together a decorated box full of practical things such as nappies, sponges, creams etc which they thought would come in. I even had a few people in tears! I've been totally stunned at their reaction - I had expected support from some, but comments from others. Even one I thought would be judgmental is making me a gift! I've had loads offering baby sitting and lifts to the hospital etc.
I saw Consultant on Wednesday and she said I'd done very well - I think she's been pleasantly surprised that the pregnancy has gone so well despite my age  - blood pressure fine, no diabetes, no problems with asthma, I've actually lost weight! Lesley - touch wood I've not had negative comments from anyone so far about my age! I was all ready for them with my own comments if that happened, but have been happy just to have people being happy for me. I've also had people saying that mature mums cope much better as well, so don't worry about that aspect. At the end of the day, it's their problem if they think that! As my placenta is still low lying, although it doesn't cover the os, the consultant has decided to go ahead with an elective C-section for safety - she said it was better than it turning into an emergency. I've had a couple of colleagues saying how calm their elective was. So I'm now booked for arrival of baby on Independence Day - 4th July! Maybe that's a sign - that we can do this together. My main concern is managing physically afterwards as I don't have a partner, my mum will help but she's elderly and my sister will, but she's often away working for BA. Colleagues have offered help so I'll not have to be too proud to accept when they offer. Can't believe how close it is now. Got midwife appointment on Friday, then it's round to D-Day. 
I feel so guilty for my cuddly fur babies - they don't know what will hit them, especially my adorable Timmy, who's obsessed with me and loves cuddles! Everyone said he'll adapt. I think as long as I still give him loads of cuddles he'll be ok.
I'm planning on taking my baby back to visit the clinic when everything's settled as the clinic like to see babies they've created. I'm also thinking ahead to trying for a sibling, if everything goes ok, as I don't want the baby to be an only child. My mum's said to try dating websites for single parents - you never know there might be a man on there who doesn't mind a baby! I know it's early days, but I'm hoping that the treatment might work again - obviously after an appropriate gap! 
Good luck to anyone having tx, I do so keep everything crossed and I do so want my friends on here to have the same luck that I've had, I do value your support so much! 
Deb


----------



## artist_mum

*Debs* well done on your healthy pregnancy! Sounds like you've put a few good marks down for older mums, showing how it can be done  I'm sure you will manage fine when your LO arrives, it sounds like lots of people are supportive to you - and lots of people love a baby! so I'm sure you will work it all out. I too have animals and the dog in particular gets a little jealous of the step children but i guess you will learn to share the love and I bet they'll love the baby anyway. Good luck with everything xx

*lesley* I just wanted to share the link for those of us wanting children but also step mums as it really is a difficult combination. I found it helped to read how others are getting on - their stories are all too familiar. I suppose there is some comfort in knowing you are (a) not alone in your situation and (b) quite normal to feel the way you do about it all. So perhaps the thread will help you a little. I'm a bit sporadic on FF these days but do love to catch up now and again! See http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=270035.250

*kirsty* hope all is going well and you are feeling calm and positive. Thinking of you.

love to all
Roxy xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hello ladies,

*Lesley*.. So sorry you are feeling low honey. It's so tough when we have these down days/weeks, I just wish I had the answer. We are all just surrounded by friends and family with kids and want that too. I know that feeling so well. I just really think you will not rest until you've had at least one try with donor eggs. You try and get on with life and other things/distractions ... and that works for a few months perhaps? And then the same old niggly feeling comes back when your hormones and maternal instinct kick in. You so desperately want to be a Mum! I think that you will always think "what if" if you don't at least speak to your other half again about donor eggs. You badly want this so much Les, don't let your fear of DP being 'off' or quiet with you stop you potentially achieving your dream. Distractions only work into short term remember. Xxx

*Debs*... So pleased your pregnancy is going well and you don't have long now until you meet your little one! How amazing. How was your midwife appt?

*Roxy*... Thanks for thinking of me... How are things with you?

Hello *Fifi*, *Cool* *Jules*, *highland*, *hopeful*, *chand* ... Plus anyone else still reading.

AFM... Quick update. Having a nightmare trying to thicken my lining. Isn't it typical that you think making the decision to move to donor eggs is the hard bit?! And now another spanner in the works. It seems because I'm not stimming this time, it has a negative effect in things like building up my lining. Had two scans last week, only 5.5mm and 5.9mm ... Rubbish. Had to slow down my donor so I could play catch-up. Then Penny said on Saturday after last scan I had three choices. 1. Cancel cycle. 2. Freeze embryos and work on lining next month..(but what's to say it will be any different?) 3. Come straight to Serum for uterine wash with high dose estrogen. Work with Penny all week on lining and go for blast transfer in Sat. Hence to say I am in Athens! Just didn't want to risk losing the opportunity to use these fresh embies and Penny is hopeful we will get there. Got night flight last night. In clinic early this morning after 4 hours sleep. Lining now 6.5 at thinnest part and 7.5 at fundus. So better... But tri- layer thingy disappeared?! Grrrrhhh! What is going on with my body? Had bloods done today to look at progesterone because that can affect the three layers. Donor had egg collection today... So back at clinic tom for results on everything and hopefully good fertilisation. Please keep everything crossed for me!

Xxx


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - sorry to hear of your lining troubles. Will cross fingers & toes for you whenever not needing to walk without risk of falling over!!!

I was in similar boat on my DE cycle and told to drink loads. Went for 20 min fast walk daily (improves oxygen in blood to create heathy flow). Saw acupuncturist for womb lining specific treatment. Ate lots of spinach, green leafy veg, oily fish, pumpkin seeds & eggs. My got up to 8 on scan.

Hope your lining continues to thicken and you have successful tx soon


----------



## deblovescats

Hi everyone
sorry you're feeling rubbish Lesley - don't give up, as Kirsty said you maybe need to have a go with DE so that you won't look back and think 'what if ...' 
Kirsty - sorry to hear of your problems with lining, but don't get hung up on it! I had amazing lining 10.2 triple lined on my failed cycles, then this one, lining was about 7.2 and I got my BFP! so as long as it's within certain limits, it's ok. Good luck with cycle.
AFM - I'm fine, just waiting to meet LO, feeling very large and ungainly now! Bending is a nightmare! I've not gained much weight in this pregnancy - about 4 1/2 pounds altogether, but midwife has said it's ok, and up to about 35 weeks, didn't have much of a bump! Then suddenly it sprouted! Finding the weather hot and hard to sleep, but I know I'm lucky! 
I so want you all to get a good outcome! 
Deb


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks for the reassurances ladies.

*Debs*... That's good to know you got your BFP when you had the thinner lining. You've only put on 4.5lbs? Seriously?! I thought a couple of stone was the norm! You must have been so good with what your ate.

*Fifi*... Thanks for the great tips hun. Will try everything you've said.

*AFM*.. Some better news today. Lining is now 8.3mm! So the estrogen wash did help and Penny is pleased. We got 10 eggs and 7 fertilised normally using DP's sperm! Over the moon with this. Going for a 5 day blast transfer on Saturday.

Xx


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - good news on lining front ... 8.3mm with 4/5 days to go is perfect
And, even better new on the embie front. Will be thinking of the "super seven" and hoping that all will continue going in positive direction. Now - just enjoy that Greek sunshine!!!!

Debs - lots of luck now you're at the final stages. Sounds crazy but make the most of these last few days & being able to eat/sleep more or less at times that suit. Enjoy the bump cos it goes very quickly & that feeling can't be replicated - though cozy cuddles are even better!!!

Lesley - thinking of you hun & so hoping you find happier place soon.

Hugs to all xxxx


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## LellyLupin

Just jumping in for a quick wishing of good luck.

Sushi    I have everything (even my eyes) crossed for you chick, this has to work for you it just has to.   

Debs      I want to meet this baby so don't forget our date when you get in a routine with the LO.  You will be the best Mum ever and this baby is very very lucky to have you and all its FF Aunties wishing him/her well,  Best of luck sweetheart xx

Fifi hope you are doing well  , will post a longer message soon, just started a new job and I am pooped!  Definitely going to tackle DP re donor eggs I want to be a Mum I have to be as Sushi says, otherwise I will spend so much on Ebay I will be bankrupt 

Hello to everyone else xx


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## artist_mum

*kirsty* hey! just caught up on here and wishing you so so much luck for saturday. That's fab that your lining got itself together (!) and great results with the eggs for transfer. You and DP made the right choice! Enjoy Athens, hope you manage to rest and relax a bit. And just thinking of you for all the very best on transfer day. Good luck lovely.
xxx

hi to everyone else. sorry not to mention individually. I just find it hard to keep up with life outside of FF let alone on here too! And then it all moves so fast with everybody's journey. But I hope the summer is being kind to you and that your own journey to motherhood (and those who already are!) is progressing in some way...

AFM still waiting for 3 months after last failed IVF before deciding what to do. Will I ever be a mum?!

Love to all xx


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## Sushi Lover

Thanks to all my lovely friends on here. I really do mean that.

Day 3 update yesterday and all 7 still going strong. 'Perfect' 8-cell embies. Transfer still tom so hopefully some frosties as well.

Bitter sweet feeling to hear the news. They already feel like my embryos completely and I was so relieved to hear from the embryologist that all are developing normally, as usually steel myself for disappointment at this stage. It's nice to hear positive news! However it highlights that my eggs really weren't up to it on previous cycles, so that made me feel a bit sad. For a millisecond though! Just so pleased everything is going well so far and I have this opportunity with DE.

Xxx


----------



## fififi

Yeah, yeah, yeah - sounds like all going fantastically for you Kirsty. So pleased it's working out for you.
Will be thinking of you tomorrow & crossing all I can that ET goes smoothly


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## Coolish

Kirsty - sounds like everything is going really well. I think I had 7 at this stage and ended up with 6 blasts. Good luck for tomorrow. My Serum ET was the easiest and most relaxed ever. I feel good things are about to happen xx


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## Sushi Lover

Morning ladies,

I am now officially PUPO with 3 blastocysts on board!  We had 6 in total (same as Jules so I hope that's a good omen!)...  frozen 3.

After the transfer Penny tickled my tummy and said some little rhyme about having twins...  she is so funny!

Now the fun 2WW starts  xx


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## Coolish

Congrats on being PUPO Kirsty! You're right about Penny - she rubbed my leg and told me to go away and get pregnant  Hope the 2WW isn't too terrible - actually what am I saying? It's always a special kind of torture, but I hope it goes quickly for you


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## fififi

Kirsty - feel very excited for you. Relax & enjoy being PUPO    

Debs - was thinking of you on the 4th & hoping all went smoothly. Do hope you & baby all ok & looking forward to your update with real baby news xxxx

AFM Am having crazy day. Volunteered to babysit my sister's 15 month old for day & feeling real mix of emotion. Can't get a thing done & house now has all moveable furniture blocking doorways & breakable items! Trying to go to loo (me not him) was hilarious ... just hope we both make it to this evening! But despite all the craziness feel extra sad that he's not ours to keep - hormones all over place & with AF too I'm extra emotional.

Hi & hugs to everyone else ... do hope a big wave of happiness starts zooming across this thread soon.


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## LellyLupin

Congratulations on being PUPO Kirsty I just KNOW this is it, I can feel it I really can  

Feefs  

Debs come on lady we are all on tenterhooks here  

Hi Jules xx


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## fififi

Well both me & nephew survived but heart extra torn when my DD at bedtime started crying cos "all she ever wanted was a brother or sister of her own!" Her questioning as to why everyone else has siblings reached new heights and I feel an even bigger failure than ever. Trying to explain infertility to a 5 year old makes no sense whatsoever and just results in me realising just what a stupid, unfair situation so many of us are in. And I'm a lucky one in that I've been given one amazing miracle already.
On positive side I do feel more open to idea of adoption again so long as they'd match us with an under two year old. Just want to get a final shot at a DE cycle so I can start trying to switch my brain into new pastures.

Lesley - thanks for hugs. Hope things feeling little easier with you & your new job going well     

Debs - what flavour is the baby & how are you both?!!!!!


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## Louisej29

Kirsty.  Good luck!!!!  This is your time- I can feel it and think it might just be twinies! 

Debs- is baby here Exciting times for you

Fiffi. That is so hard for you and your little girl. We can't even make sense of all this so how hard must it be for a 5 ye old. 

Lesley. Have you broached the de topic yet?

I'm still in a dilemma whether to do IVig or intralipids next cycle and differing advise from the experts is not helping. Can't believe I'm now on my seventh cycle and still no baby 

Love to everyone xxxx


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## Sushi Lover

*Fififi*... it must be so tough trying to explain it all to a 5 year old. As Louise says, it's hard for us 40 somethings to make some sort of sense out of the whole injustice of infertility, primary or secondar. So for a little one to get her head around it would be near impossible. The adoption idea sounds amazing hun. But, I do agree, think you need one more shot at DE before moving onto the next chapter.

*Debs*... I can't wait to hear the news!!! I'm more excited about your baby that a member of my own family's!! I think that's because we've all been through this IF struggle together. Hope all is well.

*Lesley*.. have you started your new job now? How is it going? Thanks for the fairy dust and hope your feelings are right!

*Louise*.. I don't really know a lot about IVIG hun. It's the blood infusion one isn't it? Sounds another massive step up from the intralipids. I think I would try it as you've had intralipids before. Can you get any additional info from the immunes thread? Speak to someone that's tried both?

*CoolJules*.. thank you so much. Hope all is well with you.

*AFM*.... 3dp 5DT today... God, this 2WW is going to drag. Feeling nothing unusual so far. Tired, but always am in second half of my cycle. I know it's far too early to be symptom spotting, but you know when you just want some tiny little sign it might be different this time? Trying to take it easy. In work, but it's very quiet, so no stress at all. Takes my mind of things....

xx


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - glad you've work to take mind off things but no matter what you do I've never found a way of stopping my mind whirring for those 2 weeks. Far too early for signs so put that idea away for while. It's all gone so well considering early hiccups & my DD was result of cycle that had loads of complications to start so in my mind that's an even better sign    


Louise - feel for you trying to decide what extra drugs/changes to make when the experts don't seem to have joint recommendation either. The developments in ivf since I first started 11 years ago are amazing but at same time more options still can't provide a 100% guarantee & no one can truly say what each individuals missing ingredient is.
Not had experience of either but seen lots of success stories on FF. Hope you find way to decide & it leads to your happy ever after.


Ps. Kirsty/anyone else - only simple-ish test I've not done is the hidden C one. Can someone PM me with details of how they went about doing it if not patient at Serum and rough timings/costs. I'd posted on Serum board but not had response that was particularly clear.
Does anyone think that might have been what made the difference?
Thanks x


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## Greyhoundgal

Hi Fififi

Just swinging in to say to do the hidden c you just need to collect some of AF (yuk I know tmi) and send it to locus medicus in Athens. There is a section on it in Agates thread about serum about tests and things. If not just look on locus medicus site and it says more or less same thing.

Sorry for lack of personals - jamming loads into few days this week due to travelling to Athens for our consult at Serum.  We are there Thursday through Sunday. May have hysto if they think I need it   Rather do site seeing bit if Dr M says I need it I'll have it.

Feeling hopeful......

Grey xx


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## Sushi Lover

*Fifi*.. I will PM you the extract on hidden injection testing from Agate's file.... x


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## fififi

Thanks Kirsty PUPO lady    


Thanks Greyhoundgal - it's been in back of my mind for while now so thinking I should just add that to the ticked off list.
Hope trip to Serum goes well & you return to UK feeling positive and ready to start tx shortly       (You'll be able to sight see when you return in few years with your LO to show them where they were made.)


----------



## Coolish

Fififi - just like the other girls said. I dd mine via Serum but you can go directly to Locus - http://www.locus-medicus.gr/index.php/en/hiddenc-en

For me I do think it made a difference. I tested positive and then when I had the hysto, you could see that lining there was white (no blood getting there) so it was removed. Like Penny said, it was clear nothing could implant there. I also had intralipids and and immunes protocol (steroids, ABs, clexane etc). Don't forget that before I had the hidden c test, I'd had 4 failed cycles and a hysto over in Spain \and they kept saying everything was 'perfect' - lining, eggs, sperm, embies etc. The cost of the test really is a drop in the ocean compared to how much we all spend on cycles. I had the 7 in 1 Locus test and I think it cost me 170 euros?

I, personally, would be more tempted to go via Serum as if you have the infection they can arrange ABs and a consult and hysto. They also advice ABs during your cycles. Are you at a UK clinic?


----------



## fififi

Thanks Cooljules
I'm at UK clinic and although they do lots of testing don't have anything like hidden C. I have endo so have had various laproscopies & hysteroscopies over the years. NK cell count was normal so not given anything for that. Due to recurrent MC when cyclying have clexane & also gestone injections (instead of cyclogest). Also have endometrial scratch on day start DR & used embryo glue. So as yet all that is confirmed, other than my endo & few polyps is bad luck!
Will contact Serum and ask about 7in1 test as it could just be the missing link. Prior to next tx am having a hysteroscopy instead of scratch so consultant can make more of cut - ouch!!!


----------



## Coolish

I had implantation cuts when I had my hysto in Athens  If you test positive, will your clinic prescribe ABs when you cycle with them? Looks like the only things you may not have tried that I had on my last cycle (apart from the hidden c stuff) could be intralipids and steroids? Intralipids are used in a lot of UK clinics now. I even saw one couple on the local news recently saying how 'egg yolk' had helped them get pregnant.


----------



## fififi

No, they don't seem to use intralipids. Following my NK cell testing I was advised to avoid something and think it may well have been steroids.
Unlikely they'll prescribe antibiotics if it was shown I needed them. Though is it more expensive with an overseas prescription? (In which case might try.)


Another question for those familiar with infection testing at Serum. They sent me an email with details but wanted to check which test people went for. Does the chlaymedia test within the 7in1 show hidden c or do I need to do both tests?

Locus Medicus test – €100:
We began testing for Chlamydia using a novel test on menstrual fluid (the blood, mucus and tissue that is shed during a period) at Locus Medicus lab in Athens.  

Life Code “7-in-1” test – €170:
We now run a panel of tests run by Life Code lab in Athens, which comprises:
•	an 'ordinary' test for Chlamydia Trachomatis;
• a test of total bacterial load, which measures the level of 'good bugs' (lactobacillae) – a reduced population tends to indicate an abnormal vaginal environment caused by another, more hostile, bacteria, such as E-coli, Proteus etc.;
•	Ureaplasmas;
•	2 species of Mycoplasmas – Mycoplasma Genitalium and Mycoplasma Hominis;
•	2 other Bacterial Vaginosis species – Gardnerella Vaginalis and Atopobium Vaginae).

They need sample by 15th July otherwise from 1st September as closed over August.

Thanks for help ladies x


----------



## Louisej29

Fififi

I did the testing at serum- even though I've never done a cycle there

It was really easy and I did the 7 in 1 for 170 euros.  Yes it covers everything. I came back as positive for ureasplama and penny sent a prescription on email.  I went to see my gp with it and they wrote me a prescription there for the anti biotics ( which you both take !) 

Good luck ! 
X


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## Coolish

Exactly what Louise said! I did the 7 in 1 test as I thought in for a penny, in for a pound. Penny sent me an email with the recommended ABs and I took it to my GP and just said I'd tested positive for chlamydia (I didn't mention 'hidden c') with my clinic and they gave me a prescription for me and my OH.

An overseas prescription shouldn't be more expensive. If you have the paper prescription you can take it to Asda, which is probably cheaper than a UK clinic  I just used to get an emailed prescription from Serum for my meds and email it to Ali's Chemist who would post out to me the next day.

I would definately ask about intralipids - just go to Google and type in "ivf intralipids" and you'll see some good UK clinics that are using them for repeated implantation failure and early miscarriage. If your clinic doesn't do them you can always arrange them yourself. I had my prescription from Serum and arranged locally to have them administered.


----------



## Louisej29

You can have intralipids through healthcare at home- I've done this before and they come out to you - but you do need a prescription from clinic/doctor.


----------



## Coolish

There's a whole thread on here on where you can have intralipids done. Healthcare at Home will travel to just about anywhere but are the most expensive. If you are near London then you can get it done quite cheaply and there seems to be lots of choice. I'm in the Midlands and found somewhere about an hour away that does it for half the price of HatH. I just used to turn up with my bag of intralipids, sit back and watch TV


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## Sushi Lover

*Fifi*... yes, the 7-1 does include 'hidden C' ... the 'hidden' bit is used to describe any infection inside the uterus rather than a swab test where cells are taken from the outside of the cervix that is commonly done in the UK. So when it says that chlamydia testing is included it means 'hidden C'. My GP wouldn't give me all the antibiotics prescribed by Serum as they thought the dosage was unnecessarily high. So I went to the sexual health clinic and they were fine about it.

Regarding intralipids.. I go to Independent Nursing in Devonshire Street near Harley Street. £103 including meds or £70 if you take your own. You need a prescription though. They were fine to take my Greek one.

I think Healthcare at Home is about £300!

xx


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## Louisej29

Oh thanks for those tips girls.  I was going to use healthcare at home but won't now!!!

Will use the one you suggested k- do you need to book ahead or not and do you now if they do IVig as well??


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## fififi

Hmmmmnn well I'm set to do the 7 in 1 test in Sept assuming AF timings ok & match not given beforehand. Frustrating that Serum closes in August and that I didn't ask about this sooner as literally just had AF.
The intrallipids will require further investigation as not something I've looked at to date. My clinic are pretty good on trialling new ideas but this not been mentioned. May come back to you ladies for more advice on that shortly.

Have good weekend everyone x


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## ivyf

Hi fififi I don't post much but saw your message about serum in August, you can send your sample to locus medicus in August and ask them to send the result to serum, you can then pay serum 1st sep who will then give you a prescription if needed. Best of luck with it all.


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Lou*... you have to book, but they always seem to have appointments. The room has 3 big armchairs and a TV so they can administer the IV's to a few women at once!

Just checked the website and they do IVIG as well. Not sure of the price though. There is a contact page on their website... so drop them a line.

http://www.insuk.co.uk/medical-services/ivig-pregnancy-treatment-ivf-london-intralipids

xxx


----------



## fififi

Ivyf - thanks for that tip.
Do I arrange things with Serum beforehand?


----------



## ivyf

Fififi I think that's what I did, just send them an email and let them know.


----------



## Louisej29

Thankyou Kirsty. Have just emailed them. How are you doing - any symptoms.  ?

Am away when your results are due so will try and get on what's app to hear your good news ( which I am convinced it will be!) 

Love to everyone xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Lou*... trying not to panic... but no symptoms at all!! Some mild AF pains earlier in the week, but that's all. Started to get very scared it hasn't worked...

Today I am 6DPT 5DT... wondering when to test to get an accurate result. Serum say 12 days afterwards, but might test on day 9 or 10. It's so difficult.

Does anyone have any advice please? When to test and should I be worried about no symptoms at this early stage?

xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

I sound as if I'm on my first cycle rather than my 7th!!!


----------



## Louisej29

Kirsty. Have texted you but replying in here too to say stop worrying !!  Mild af pains are a good sign and , as us IVF veterans now know, symptoms and lack of them mean nothing.  ! 

How on earth did we both get to cycle seven.  I don't know!  But seven is meant to be a lucky number hey---- lets hope it is for us both xx


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - no symptoms as Louise says means nothing in this crazy game. Try & arrange some distractions for the weekend - now is the worst time in 2ww as initial excitement worn off yet OTD still far away.
As for testing I'm in the wait until clinic says camp. Testing early & getting negative will only depress you but actually it could just be too early. Equally an early positive you might not trust.


----------



## PopPop8

Hello 
Sushi Lover 
I had no symptoms during my 2WW on my final successful cycle that gave us our DD and was convinced it hadn't worked. I was a nervous wreck for a couple of days around day 6-7. I was cycling with two younger girls and was sure they would get BFPs - not just based on the fact they weren't in their 40s but on the symptoms they'd described. I tested on 9DPT 5DT and it came back 2-3 weeks pregnant! There were 2 beans at that stage (1 didn't make it) but all I had that day were some v v mild AF feelings. My two cycle buddies got BFNs. I only got more symptoms a few days after my hcg test on day 10. Try to stay positive and think pregnant! 
As Louise knows - I got there on my lucky 7th cycle so am keeping everything crossed for both of you! 
XX


----------



## Coolish

Kirsty - I know it's hard, but try not to worry and to symptom watch as most 'symptoms' you might get in the 2ww are usually due to the drugs. I didn't get any symptoms really with my bfp - just a bit of mild 'tugging' - I'd had that with a couple of negative cycles too. Also I didn't test until the 12 days were over as I knew if I tested positive then it wasn't just another chemical xx


----------



## mamochka

Sushi - at most I had some pullings and fluttering in my uterus area and sore (.)(.), which the last I am sure was prontogest. And a few AF type of moans down there. On my natural FET cycle which I think is more close to DE I think I had no symptoms apart from bloating. If you have pregnyl shots in your system I wod test 3-4 days after the last shot. Mx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thank you ladies.. What would I do without you all?!

*Louise*.. Thanks for the texts. I just can't work out where all that time has gone to get to 7 flipping cycles!! Mad.

*Poppop*.. That's really kind of you to reply... Thank you. It's good to know that you felt the same as me and had no symptoms, but still got a BFP. Congrats on your DD! The thought of testing and experiencing more sadness makes me feel physically sick 

*Fififi*... I usually think the exactly the same as you hun, so your comments ring true. I think it makes more sense to wait until at least 10dpt for a HPT and then bloods in 12dpt (OTD)

*Cool* *Jules*.. Thanks lovie. It is so hard. Today I've had some pink'ish spotting. No idea if this is good or bad?! Arrgggh !

*Mamo*... I usually get a lot of pulling, sharp pains and fluttery feelings... Plus sore (.)(.) But then they have always been BFNs! So maybe not having them this time is a good thing. I must try and not analyse everything so much!

Xx


----------



## Louisej29

Kirsty.  Pink spotting is good- that could be implantation !  Feeling cautiously optimistic for you and hoping when you test you will have the happiness you deserve. 
Off on hols now but will what app or text in the week and see how you are xx


----------



## Coolish

Pink spotting should be very good as won't you be just about right for implantation at the moment?


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Louise* and *Cooljules*... I'm hoping it's a good sign. I did wonder if it was already too late for implantation ... I was 7dpt the 5dt. So implantation should have been during last week sometime? Maybe it takes a few days for the tiny bleed to seep through?

Anyways, it hasn't developed into anything else. Bit of brown'ish stuff whilst wiping. (sorry tmi!)

I haven't tested .... will wait until next week.... Xxx

P.s. Enjoy your hols Lou!!!


----------



## BlinkButton

Hi all

I'm hovering around the thread at the moment psyching myself up for another cycle in October so wanted to say hello and wish you all luck. Sushi Lover - hi - I really do think the pink stuff is such a good sign, I have a very good feeling for you.  

Louise - enjoy that long awaited and well deserved holiday!

Hello to others I havent really got to know yet. 

I'm waiting for an appt with George Ndukwe at Zita West - think its time to get a second opinion. I'm dreading it and just a teeny little bit excited too. Although scared to he'll say do DE, or that he'll agree its not a bad idea to do another OE. Scared either way!  

Hope all have enjoyed the weekend.

xx


----------



## deblovescats

Hi everyone
Feel a bit behind on the thread - been very busy! Kirsty - hope it's good news. Don't worry about no symptoms - I didn't get any  on my BFP! 
Now for the long awaited update! I've only just got back on line. Just to announce the safe arrival of my precious little James William on 4th July at 10.06 am by elective caesarean. It was booked due to placenta praevia and the placenta hadn't moved up. I was a bit disappointed that it was necessary but the main thing was my precious baby was fine. My sister came into theatre and cut the cord (despite being squeamish!) The op went very smoothly and calmly, James was a good weight at 8 1b 8 oz but since then he's lost weight - was down to 7 lb 6 oz so being monitored.He's got new born jaundice which will resolve and his blood sugars dropped in hospital so he had to have blood tests and top up feeds of formula. Breast feeding now established - he's a very hungry baby. Everyone's so delighted to have him - we've had so many visitors from work and so many gifts and cards. My mother's delighted to finally get a  grandchild! My sister dotes on him.
Now settling into life with a demanding newborn! Will try and download a photo! 
Good luck to everyone awaiting results.
will be back onine when I get chance
Deb


----------



## Coolish

Debs - congrats on baby James William! Hope he's doing OK. Hopefully to put your mind at rest, my DD had jaundice and had to have the test 3 times while we were in hospital(and you've seen how much blood they take). They were on the threshold of re-admitting her to hospital a couple of days after Christmas as she lost so much weight. I had to do top up formula feeds too and she soon picked up. Enjoy these first few weeks as they are very special - oh, and tiring


----------



## Salad4

Congratulations Debs - you are very lucky (but also very well deserved).  Thinking of you.  
Salad


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Congratulations Debs - that's wonderful news   Enjoy xxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Oh *Debs*.... what wonderful news! Really made my Monday morning and brought a lump to my throat. I'm so glad your little boy made it safely into the world and I hope the jaundice resolves itself soon. So you are a dab hand at the breast feeding lark already?! Great! I'm so happy for your Mum too. Having her first grandchild must be very emotional.

Can't wait to see a photo soon!! Congratulations. We are all over the moon for you.

xxx


----------



## fififi

Debs - congratulations am delighted that James William has arrived safely and you're now a mummy.
Despite all your baby experience I'm sure it's still scary when things not 100% with your own child but equally you'll know it's pretty common for them to lose weight & arrive with baby jaundice. Hoping James gets through these hurdles quickly so you can relax more. Great that you've managed the breast feeding - that was a total nightmare for me & shock as assumed it was easy to do!

Looking forward to seeing a photo - am more excited about James than I've been about a new arrival for a long time xxxx


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - hope all going ok still. When is OTD? Thinking of you hun & crossing everything I can that it's good news xxxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Fififi*... hiya, I'm hanging on in there. OTD is Thursday the 17th. I still have no clue which way things will go. Feel sick thinking about testing to be honest.

xx


----------



## Coolish

Kirsty - lots of relaxing and positive thoughts being sent your way. I think most people start to feel less positive and more sick the closer they get to OTD. Everything is looking positive for you though xx


----------



## Sassy-lassy

Hello Sushi,

[Useless] Top Tip #1 is of course _Don't Panic_, but as everyone whose done this journey more than once will testify, as test day approaches, this is nigh on impossible.

After 5x IVFs (both fresh & FETs) however, I have found that you can get loads of symptoms and then get a BFN or no symptoms at all (and indeed 2x negative POAS tests) and then get a shock BFP.

On my 4th cycle, I got my days muddled up and tested about 3-4 days early. I had all sorts of symptoms and was pretty sure I was going to get a positive result. Instead, I got a negative and was so upset, that in hindsight, I concluded that had there been any late implanters, they would have been swept away on a tide of grief.

With cycle no. 5, I had absolutely no symptoms, not even sore (.)(.), which had been a feature of previous cycles. Penny said that the medications themselves (rather than a pg) could produce these symptoms, and then added (somewhat confusingly for me), that the lack of tenderness in my breasts / AF type pains etc demonstrated that the clexane etc was working well. I got BFN at the end of the 2WW and decided to do a back-to-back cycle. Two weeks into the build up, the sonographer discovered a pregnancy whilst doing a lining scan. I had no idea there could be anything there. And apart from needing to pee on the hour every hour and sleeping a lot (though this could be down to extra progesterone supplements) I still have no symptoms at what is now 8 weeks..

In essence, what I learned from my experiences was that I got so very distressed at a BFN, that it was better for me to hold out for the full 2WW without testing, but not everyone is the same. I also learned that a BFN isn't always a BFN if you're using a POAS to test, even if they claim to be 99% accurate, you wait the full time and you test 2-3x over as many days. BhCG is probably the only accurate measure for an early reading.

So. Good luck to you! Sending  and watching out for your news.

xx Sassy



Sushi Lover said:


> *Lou*... trying not to panic... but no symptoms at all!! Some mild AF pains earlier in the week, but that's all. Started to get very scared it hasn't worked...
> 
> Today I am 6DPT 5DT... wondering when to test to get an accurate result. Serum say 12 days afterwards, but might test on day 9 or 10. It's so difficult.
> 
> Does anyone have any advice please? When to test and should I be worried about no symptoms at this early stage?
> 
> xx


----------



## Altai

Debs - congratulations on safe arrival of baby James, such a wonderful news. Hope you are both doing ok. 

Kirsty - good luck with otd. Hope is will be your time. 

Sassy - how all is going with you? Have u managed to sort out progesterone levels? 

Love

A.


----------



## Sushi Lover

*CoolJules*... thank you. I really hope this is my time.

*Sassy*... thanks for your post ... insightful and brilliant information. It helped me tremendously to read all that you had been through. It really isn't worth the stress of testing early and getting myself into a muddle over it. My beta is on Thursday. Gulp. How are you doing? I've said it to you before on another thread... but what a miracle of a story you have! I bet you honestly couldn't believe it to find that baby hiding there?

*Altai*... you are lovely lady and I hope we both get our much deserved BFPs this time around.

xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

I never thought I would be writing this post...

Today, after TTC for 10 years on and off, numerous failed IUI and IVF cycle and at 42 years of age, I have finally got my first ever BFP !!!  

I cannot stop crying at the moment!!

Two clear lines on a cheapy test and "Pregnant, 2-3 weeks" on a Clearblue Digital.  I am seriously in a state of shock.

Apologies for posting this type of news on a predominantly BFN thread..... I hope the moderator doesn't tell me off!...  but I really had to tell all my friends on here that miracles do happen.

Beta hCG tomorrow....

Is this really happening to me?!! 

xxx


----------



## Altai

Sushi - congratulations, such a wonderful news. So happy for you. Good luck with beta test tomorrow but then u already know the result. 
Wishing u a smooth preganacy.

Love

A


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Altai*... thank you so much. I hope you follow in my footsteps 

Just hoping for a good number tomorrow really....

xx


----------



## artist_mum

kirsty - that's amazing news!  many congrats.  Must have been the lucky meds  .  All the very best for your beta.  And beyond xxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks so much *Artist*. yes, I thought the same! Sorry I've been a bit rubbish at keeping touch. How are things? I will mail you.

xxx


----------



## Altai

Thank you for good wishes Sush.  Would love to follow ur footsteps and bring more positivity but once again this looks unlikely to be ....

wishing u a good number tomorrow

love

A.


----------



## Coolish

Kirsty - woo-hoo, I knew it would be positive! Fabulous news xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Cooljules*... thanks hun. You just had that feeling like Lesley and Fifi did I think! I'm glad you are all right. 

Thanks so much for guiding me in Penny's/Serum's direction. I wouldn't have even had the hidden infection testing unless it was for you. You also reassured me about using donor eggs and you are right about that too... feels exactly like my embryos! I don't know what I was worried about now!

Thanks again Jules. I don't think I would have even considered Athens unless you'd encouraged me to. You should earn commission!

xxx


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - WAHOOOOO - am so, so, so pleased for you. Even have tears rolling down my face!!!!
Hoping tomorrow & next 8 months continue to bring endless grins  

Ps. Having had hidden infection testing did you need antibiotics? This has encouraged me yet  further that this could be missing ingredient. What other drugs/changes apart from DE & switch of clinic did you have?


----------



## Coolish

Kirsty, you are more than welcome! Other ladies here on FF gave me the information and support I need to switch to Serum too, so I'm just passing on those good vibes!

Fififi - if you test positive, Penny will tell you which combo of ABs you and your OH need to take and for how long. If I remember correctly it was 2 different ABs and for about 21 days. She also recommends AB during your cycle and for a few weeks after BFP to stop the infection coming back. Just for info the changes to protocol that I had when moving to Serum was pred, intralipids, ABs and high does folic acid. I was already on Clexane etc. For me, I think hidden c testing, ABs and the hysto got the environment right, and then pred and intralipds stopped any immunes responses to the embryo.


----------



## MJ1

Kirsty, am currently crying tears of joy at your news, even had your test date on my work diary for tomorrow to check. Bloody fantastic news hunny. Amazing.
Enjoy.
Hi to everyone, still lurking and keeping up with your news.
AFM, wedding in 5 weeks girls!! 
Love MJ xx


----------



## Moominmum

Just a quick CONGRATS to Kirsty!    

Whilst I have been silent, I am still following this thread, almost on a daily basis (I just have nothing to say).

   to everyone else


----------



## fififi

Mj1 - hope your wedding is lots of fun & marks the start of more than one new beginning    

Moom - hope you're doing ok hun. Often think about you & wonder how you are. Are you visiting family in Sweden this summer?


Am so pleased that several of us BFNers are now officially not. Hearing your stories of success really helps cope with this constant lack of hope thrown at me from most other aspects of my life.
Just hoping that the baby dust fairy keeps on sprinkling & it won't be long before none of us rely on this thread for support


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Sushi

Just wanted to say a big congratulations to you. I've been following the serum cycle threads for months and due to cycle there myself in September and so I have read your story and seen some of your journey.  You've had so much to go through   And so it's really heartwarming to see you get your long awaited BFP.  

Here's to a healthy and happy pregnancy   

Grey xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Thanks so much to my dear fabulous 40's friends. You are all so lovely.

*Fififi*....bless you with the tears. I've cried a lot! As Jules said... antibiotics for about 3 weeks for you and DH. I also have extra antibiotics now and I've taken anti-inflammatories, anti-viral, higher dose steroids, clexane. 3 lots of intralipds. The special estrogen wash helped my lining, plus vaginal viagra and estrogen orally and vaginally. Removed old scar tissue during hysto must have helped implantation. Oh and I have been injecting progesterone since ET, rather than suppositories, to keep the levels high (I used to bleed before OTD). All these things, plus the DE of course, seems to have helped! Penny gives you a really high medication programme before, during and after. More than I've ever had with a UK clinic.

*MJ*.... ahh, that is so lovely of you! It's good to see one of us BFN girls have some good luck for a change isn't it? That's how I felt with Jules and Debs. Wow, only 5 weeks to go!! That seems to have come around quickly. 23rd Aug?

*Grey*.... thank you so much. I can't believe how nice everyone is being! It's lovely to share the news. I really hope you have as much success as I have had with Serum. Penny really is a wonderful lady. I wish you luck in Sept and will follow your story too.
*
Moomin*... that's lovely of you to pop back on the thread with the congrats! Thank you and hope all is well with you. 

xxx


----------



## MJ1

Thanks Fififi and Kirsty, exactly 5 weeks today. Thursday 21st August is the Wedding day  .
Then we will buy a house together and sell our properties, life moves fast when you concentrate on other things 
Wow Kirsty HCG is high, is it twins Xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*MJ*... Ahh, great. You must be so excited!

Penny said there could well be two heartbeats in there!! Eeeeeek.

Xx


----------



## Coolish

Kirsty, it's higher than mine was and I started with 2....


----------



## Maggiephatcat

Hi everyone  


I just wanted to drop by, say hello and introduce myself as your new moderator.


Fertility Friends has been an amazing support for me over the past 4 years and I feel very lucky to be in a position to give something back. I have a 17 month old DS conceived using donor eggs at a clinic in Spain.


If there is anything I can help you with in my new role, please ask  


Maggie x


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Lots going on for you MJ   - good luck for the big day  

Sushi.....that's a might fine hcg number you've got there   I think you may be in for a double whammy  

Hello again Maggie  

Grey xx


----------



## Chandlerino

Sushi - congrats!!!! Have been following your journey too.

I'm off to Serum on weds to see Peny and probably have a hysto. Think its the missing ingredient for me too as tested positive for hidden c and have probably got scarring from an ERPC in 2011 as havent been pregnant since.

Greyhoundgal - hello again!

Chand x


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Chand*... Thanks very much! I think that's a really good idea having a hysterosocopy in Athens. I had one in the UK and the consultant categorically said "no white scar tissue"... And yet Dr Meredis found a fair bit to remove! I wish you the best of luck.

*Maggie*... Hello!

*Grey*...my hcg is going off the scale!!,

Xxx


----------



## fififi

Chand - really hope this tx is the one for you too. Am quite envious of all these visits to Serum. Their success stories for over 40s are certainly good. (Sadly due to DH job having fixed holiday in August & Xmas it's not option for me.)

Sushi - is looking like twins. Did your test stick at home change to positive really quickly? When will you have scan? 

Hugs to everyone else   (& hugs for Chand & Kirsty too)


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Fifi*... That's a shame about Serum not being an option for you. Are your DH's holidays from work really inflexible then? He really only has to be there for a day to provide a sample and then it can be frozen.

Actually the test didn't turn positive straight away. I sat and watched the liquid moving up and the control line went red quite quickly, but test line was blank. I sat and stared, thinking "great, yet another BFN" ... Ready to throw the flipping test stick across the bathroom! ... And then really slowly a second pink line appeared in the test window. I thought I was seeing things at first. You know, a mirage, desperately wanting to see something that wasn't really there!

I then didn't know the test line was meant to lighter than the control line. So panicked that hcg must be low. Asked a few FF and one lovely lady sent photos of hers to compare and those test lines were pink as well. That's when I started to think it may just be happening at last. I went through the whole day at work in a trance , didn't even say anything to my other half. In the evening I did another and it was a darker pink. So I told DP to put his cup of tea down, close his eyes and hold out his hand. Put the test in it. He stared at it, said "argh, I don't know what it means" ?!!! How dopey? So I said, "well there are two lines so you'd better brush up on your nappy changing skills in about 9 months time"! There were lots of tears!

Sorry, gone on a bit there! I just never though i'd get the chance to tell a story like that 

Xxxx


----------



## fififi

Kirsty - think your tale of test stick is lovely. Can just imagine you holding it in all day & then DP being totally oblivious!!!!  
There's no doubting your HCG mind!!!!

Sadly DH holiday very, very inflexible. He doesn't even get Bank Holidays at same time as rest of UK. It's good in that he has 3 weeks together in August & cos whole place shutdown no issues to worry about whilst away. However if we want a long weekend away no can do! Even when we got married he wasn't allowed the Friday off so he could travel down to where we were having wedding. He arrived late for rehearsal which they'd already scheduled for 8pm!
Our UK clinic got pretty good results so fingers crossed when we get to cycle again it will be my turn for joyous news.


----------



## hopeful68

Hi Everyone. I haven't posted for ages, but thought I would do a quick post to let you all know I wont be popping by again after this week. I think I have managed to move on and put the failed IVF to my past. visiting this site just keeps reminding me about it and although I am genuinely happy for those who are still finding success (congratulations) I find it triggers more 'what if's' so I wish everyone of you all the best and really hope your dreams come true. Mine didn't but I am making the most of what I have and not dwelling on the past and missed opportunities. I don't think I have any last words of wisdom to pass on and am sure all the other ladies have far more to contribute than me.
Take Care of yourselves and thank you for all your support to date.


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Hopeful*.... I totally understand where you are coming from. If you have moved on then it won't help at all having reminders every time you pop onto the site. I'm sorry your dream didn't come true, but there will be lots of other dreams that do come true and amazing opportunities in the future, I am sure. IF/IVF is a long, hard slog and I admire your resolve for moving on from past upsets and sadness. It takes a strong woman to say "enough is enough"... I don't think I could have done it. I wish you well going forward my dear. It was nice to have 'known' you on here Michelle. Thanks for all the support, advice and wisdom you have given me over the years. Take care.

Lots of love, Kirsty xxx


----------



## Moominmum

Just a quick one to *Kirsty* - does it say *TWO* heartbeats in your signature?! Wowsers and massive congrats! 

  

Moominmum


----------



## MJ1

Kirsty, Twins wooooooo I knew it. :0)))))

Hopeful, think I might go the same way too Hun, it is hard with the constant reminders, good luck and enjoy your future. Not sure what DP (soon to be DH) will do either but the longer we have been away from treatment and the older I get I wonder if it is all worth it. 
Love MJ xx


----------



## Louisej29

Kirsty.  Know weve texted but once again congratulations - amazing fantastic news- you give me hope honey that IVF can still work after many many cycles. !!  What an amazing day to see two heartbeats.  That would be my absolute dream come true!

Hopeful. Agree with what Kirsty said. It takes someone very strong to stop and say enough and move forwards with your life. I'm sorry it didn't work out and I wish you all the very best in the future.  Take care 

Mji. It is really hard isn't it.  We are struggling too.  So--- whens the wedding - see dp is soon to be dh!? That's exciting. 

Love to everyone else xx


----------



## LuckyE

Hi may I join?

I have been following the thread for a while. I have had  2 BFNs and am embryo banking in the Autumn. I have low AMH and little chance with my own eggs but I think I need to do this as a transition to DE. 

Congratulations Sushi Lover. Your story was beautiful.


----------



## Louisej29

Welcome lucky and sorry to hear about your failed cycles. You'll find this a supportive thread.  What's embryo banking  
X


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hahaha, it does say 2 heartbeats everyone! I didn't want to post too much on here as very aware the nature of the thread is for BFN support and am wary of upsetting anyone. But I appreciate everyone's kind messages of congrats. Yesterday I went for my 7 week viability scan and there were two sacs, two yolks, two fetal poles and two strong heartbeats. It was the best day of my life bar none. God how I cried!

First of all she couldn't see a heartbeat in the second sac and said it looked empty, but then moved the wand thing around a bit and zoomed in.... and there was a second pulsating blob. Nothing can prepare you for that moment. Truly magical.

*Louise*... You WILL get there hun. I just know it. Dreams do come true.

*LuckyE*... sorry you've had to join the thread. DE worked for me as you can see by my signature. I had 6 goes with OE and my 7th was donor. I don't regret having so many tries with my own eggs, because I just had to try everything I could.. but can see now that my eggs were the problem. It feels amazing getting my first every BFP. They are my embryos/babies now.

*MJ*... Not long until the big day! Are you all sorted with the arrangements?

*Moomin*....thank you! My DP was like a rabbit caught in the headlights when the sonographer said "right, now let's measure the second one" .... I could already see two secs on the screen (and I was trying not to cry), but I don't think men know what they are looking for like we do....his face was a picture. 

xx


----------



## MJ1

Thanks girls, yes not long until the big day,  2 weeks tomorrow my DP becomes my DH ☺ Yes all pretty much there Kirsty. Fab story re the two sacs how lovely for you both. Love MJ xx


----------



## Altai

Hi ladies,

Hopeful -am sorry it didn't work out and it does take a strong woman to say enough is enough and move on with  your life. I wish you all the best. 
I'd thought I'd stop too after last failed cycle n 4 and would stay away from all fertility related worries. But here  I'm going once again for that ' last'cycle. 

Sushi - belated congratulations on twins. Hope  all goes well.

Mj - congratulations on your big day, you must be very busy now. 
Lucky - welcome. Are you doing embryo banking with PGS?

Hi to all who I missed and hope everyone is doing well.


----------



## cornwall

Hi Everyone,

I haven't posted for ages but wanted you all to know that my little girl arrived safe and well on 1st August. A bit premature and needing an emergency section but all is fine and DH and I are completely besotted. 

Apologies for the lack of personals.


----------



## fififi

Congratulations Cornwall    
Hope your LO is all okay now & from now on she brings oodles of happiness & no more scary moments.

Hi & hugs to everyone else xxxxx


Ps. Away at minute so not supposed to be on FF but habit makes me pop by! Just seen Kirsty's confirmed double news - congrats to you too. How exciting a twin pregnancy.


----------



## Coolish

Hey Cornwall - congratulations on welcoming your little girl into the world! Make sure that you and dh take plenty of time to enjoy these first few precious weeks xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Cornwall*.... what fabulous news! I'm so happy for you and DH. I can imagine you are both besotted. Hope you are recovering from your emergency c-section. That must have been scary.
*
Fififi*.... thanks for your congrats. I'm obviously very aware that two heartbeats don't always both progress, with IVF pregnancies especially. But enjoying the moment whilst I can and remaining positive all will be well. Although there are new worries now from scan-to-scan. Next one 18th Aug (9 weeks) as can't wait for NHS one on 9th Sept (12 weeks)! Hope you are enjoying your holiday/time away.

xx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Just popping on to wish *MJ* a wonderful wedding day for tomorrow! I hope the sun shines for you honey. Have a fabulous day.

Lots of love, Kirsty xx


----------



## Louisej29

Cornwall. - congratulations on your amazing new arrival

Mj- happy wedding day tomorr. Enjoy every moment- it all goes so fast!

Kirsty- fabulous news the twins are both doing well- has it all sunk in yet ?? 

Love to everyone else 

Xx


----------



## artist_mum

a quick hello to everyone on here after not checking in for a while..

lots of love and luck to hopeful, although it looks like i missed her.  inspiring.  and i totally get the moving on thing.  

fab news from kirsty - fingers crossed for the little beans there, i will mail you soon (thanks for yours)

cornwall, lovely to hear your news, wishing you loads of happy times which you more than deserve!

MJ - don't suppose you are reading this now with your big day ahead.. hope it's the day of your dreams and you enjoy every minute.  many congrats on becoming 'Mrs' tomorrow

lucky E - hi there!  good to see you on here.. hope US hols was good and that it all goes your way coming up now.

fififi, cooljules, altai, moomin, chandler, greyhound, louise - hi to you all

AFM still haven't decided what to do next but working on being as Zen about it all as humanly possible  

xx


----------



## fififi

Popping by with urgent question for those who've had testing done at Serum.
My AF on it's way & wanted to do Serum hidden c test - they sent me an email beginning July but can't find it & obviously closed until next week.
I know I need to collect sample of menstrual blood in small container but forgotten what else I need to add to container to stop blood drying out. Think it could've saline solution - if so where can I get that from?
Other question is since they don't open until Sept am I ok just storing the sample for few days? Do you think fridge better or at ambient temperature.

Thanks in advance for help - will return soon with personals as just got home from holiday & silly AF coming early - grrrrrr


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Hi Fififi

It's saline or boiled water (cooled) - you can buy small bottles of saline from boots in the contact lens section. Just enough liquid to turn it pink - not masses I don't think. And yes, keeping in the fridge should be just fine.  

Grey xx


----------



## Louisej29

Hi fififi

Yes I used contact lens solution as well - literally just a few drops.  

Also- id probably just get It straight in the post. Mine took a fair few days to arrive and I was panicking it was lost! 

Good luck x


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Just be aware most businesses are shut fir August hols in Greece so be careful of sending too early 

Grey xx


----------



## fififi

Thanks - I got tube of saline solution from Chemist this evening (42p compared with the £5 local opticians wanted for their cheapest bottle)
Annoyingly AF wasn't expected until next weekend so timing not great but will hope few days in fridge ok before sending off won't cause any issues. Will send about 29th to avoid shutdown time.
Xxxxx


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Fridge will be fine Fififi  

Grey xxx


----------



## fififi

Just got to hope no one mistakes it for ketchup


----------



## Chandlerino

Fifi 

you can also send direct to the lab locus medius or something like that. If google you will find their web site. Just ask them to send copy of results to serum x


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Yes you can but again just check they're not shut in August


----------



## fififi

Yet another question for you Serum experienced ones:
What's best way to pay? The email from serum, which I've finally located said they prefer bank transfer or paypal. What works out cheaper to do? Do I pay once they've got the sample?

Also my sample pot is just regular one from GP surgery - will that be too big?

Thanks for your help xxxx

Ps. Any other tips regarding posting? Serum said wrap labelled pot in bubble wrap & include letter with my details on. Send Royal Mail tracked post.


----------



## Louisej29

Hi fififi

I bought a small pot from boots and wrapped in bubble wrap - I attached a sticky label to bottle with my name and details on it - also enclosed a letter.  Am sure your pit will be fine.  

Paid via PayPal - and paid once it was received.  They will email you and tell you- it's all quite straightforward. I did PayPal as this seemed the easiest and cheapest way at the time. 

I ignored that completely. In fact the lady in the post office asked me what I was sending and I just said " a birthday present".  Hehe.  No one is going to open it and look inside if they just think its a gift etc.


----------



## fififi

Me again! Plan to post sample tomorrow or Friday but just wondered if is it best to send tracked or normal post?

Oh, and has anyone else been tested who hasn't been having tx at Serum? If so what were you charged for prescription if needed it?

Thanks x


----------



## Altai

Fifi- I sent mine by tracked post. Sorry no other suggestion re content , I said a gift & no further q were asked. 
I didn't need px for serum tests.  but I also did some tests in another country and asked my GP surgery for a px. They didn't have a problem with this. 
So, you can try your gp first once receive a test results from locus. In case they charge for a px.


----------



## fififi

Aggghhhh having second thoughts now following chat with DH. He is concerned that it's only Greece that do these tests & all the info he's seen about it everyone has ended up needing antibiotics.
My NK cell count was very low so that also doesn't suggest tests necessary. If I was patient at Serum would prob feel more confident but being as I'm doing test my clinic feel unnecessary am confused & nervous.
Nervous in case it does show positive as my body struggles with meds at best of times & would be too wary to want to take ABs were I to get pg. So if I'm not keen on taking the drugs as directed were I to test maybe I should forget test in first place.

Sorry to be troubling others with my head turmoils but would really appreciate your thoughts/experiences.


----------



## BlinkButton

Hi FiFi - if I were you I'd ask Agate on the threads to do with Immune issues and testing - see Starting Out - Diagnosis - Immune Issues and Investigations. She's got a lot of  knowledge and suggestions so think she'd be good to ask. Good luck - this is endlessly tricky. BB


----------



## fififi

Me again!!!!
Going to do it - well that's what decision we've reached prior to going to bed anyway!!!!

What's best way to sort out payment to Serum? What have you ladies done? (My bank charges £10 transaction fee & I've no idea what Paypal works out as cos website too confusing!!!)


----------



## fififi

Ooops another quick question!!!!

Did you ladies have just the hidden c test or the 7in1 test or both? (Currently thinking both but don't want to spend more on tests than need to!)

Thanks xxx


----------



## Coolish

I used paypal as it was cheaper and much more convenient. If you haven't got an account it's really easy to set up and useful for online shopping. I did the 7in 1 test as I thought 'in for a penny, in for a pound'! My results came back with ureaplasma too.


----------



## Louisej29

Hi fififi

I didn't cycle  at serum but did the tests- I know how you are feeling as we also panicked about the antibiotics and the fact everyone seemed to be put on them. I had lots of wobbles about it all- as Kirsty will probably remember as kept texting her my worries!! 

I did the 7 in 1 test and came back negative for everything aside from ureasplama which tested positive and we were both put on high dose antibiotics for 25 days. I was v v worried about taking them and took lots of advise. My consultant at lister said it was all a load of rubbish and not to take! But my gp said it would do no harm and in USA they often put you on antibiotics before a cycle anyway.  So we  decided to take.

I didn't get charged for prescription not bein a serum patient and PayPal Definately cheapest way to pay. 

I think it's worth doing. It's another thing to cross off the list that you've tried.  

Good luck Hun xxx


----------



## Altai

I did 7 in 1 - all came negative, so I didn't need any abs at the time. 
BUT I had UTI several months later, and when redoing all  tests (swab method) for hysteroscopy, was tested positive for ureaplasma. We took 7 days ab course, retested and that was it.  I must admit, I very much doubt I'd have taken 25 days ab course anyway. But this is obviously your decision. 

Dr Gorgy does the same tests or similar, though it's much more expensive. 

Good luck.


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Fififi*.... I have PM'd you.... but did you sort out all the worries re testing ?

Quick recap from my side....

* Not everyone tests positive, and I really think it's another thing to tick off the list before you next cycle.
* saline solution from Boots in the contact lens section
* I ticked 'gift' and wrote 'Costume Jewellery'
* Serum will send you prescription from their doctor, even if you aren't a patient. You can try and get your GP to transfer this to a NHS one or go to the local GUM clinic for free antibiotics. If not, ASDA, Boots, Lloyds etc take Serum prescription.
* Usually a 3 week course for you and hubby. 
* Best to get these out of the way before your cycle as doxycycline isn't ideal after ET

Think that's everything xxx


----------



## fififi

Thanks ladies - glad (in nice way) to know I'm not the only one who was unsure before doing tests re antibiotics.

Definitely doing 7in1 test but wasn't sure whether to do the more in depth hidden c test that Locus do. (Agate on Serum thread said that if could only afford the one test to do that one!!!) it's 170 euros for 7in1 and extra 100 for the hiddenC. Having considered it I am thinking I probably best do both now else might worry later on that I missed something!!!   Seems some people get neg on the combination one but positive on the more in depth one! (Though obviously hoping all is negative.)

Thanks for payment & postage tips too. I'll send my "gift" off tomorrow!


----------



## Louisej29

Kirsty. Can't believe you wrote costume  jewellery. Haha. How funny is that. 

Fififi.  Yes def do both. !  Good luck xxx


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Hi Fififi - just to confirm what you've said above - I came up with nothing on the 7 in 1 but positive on the detailed hidden c. I don't take antibiotics unless I absolutely have to but I feel that this us just one of those things where you don't want it to shunt you in years to come. Good luck - plenty of serum ladies test negative on both tests so if you're lucky it will just have been money spent and an icky experience  

Grey xxx


----------



## Coolish

Ok, I realise that this may sound weird but I was actually relieved when I tested positive.  I'd been 'unexplained' for so long that this actually proved something hadn't been right all along and that there was possibly a solution. I don't like taking ABs but decided that if it fixed the issue and gave me a chance then I'd give it a go. The hysto then showed the damage that the infection had done. It was 170 euros well spent and a drop in the ocean of £30k spent over the years


----------



## fififi

Thanks Cooljules, Grey & Louise - will do both. Packaging up my gift to post this morning!
Cooljules - totally understand the relief at a positive. Every test we've had a bit of me has felt disappointment it hasn't shown any issues. I had hysto last year but no obvious anything. My consultant will do another when I'm ready to start DR & some deep scratches instead of having endo scratch this time.

Must dash as parcel to wrap. Might wrap it I gift paper for that extra special touch


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Lou*... I know! I just panicked a bit and thought if I get caught, I can always say I muddled the labels up and the costume jewellery was for my friend in Australia?! Sounds just a little bit crazy thinking about it now! 

x


----------



## Louisej29

Fififi- did you get it sent ok ??


----------



## fififi

Sent it off on Thurs but didn't get asked about contents at all - post office just put stamp label on. Now just hoping it reaches Serum ok.
Then I can move onto next phase of worrying about tests themselves. I opted for both tests in the end as want to be sure I've ticked any outstanding boxes!

Hope everyone doing ok


----------



## fififi

Hi all - hope everyone doing ok & those planning on cycling this month are on track.

Quick update to my infection testing via Serum. I opted for both 7 in 1 test & the in depth hidden c. My parcel took 15 days to get to Serum!!!! (Sent standard post)
Serum no longer accept payments via Paypal - only payments to a bank account. Very annoying since that was definitely cheaper way to have paid.
Now nervously awaiting results   


Hugs to all


----------



## Coolish

Hey Fififi - I'm sure I got my results pretty quickly after the sample had arrived. I was checking this thread over the weekend wondering if you'd had your results yet,


----------



## Louisej29

Hi fififi

Wow that took a long time to arrive ! I got my results quite quickly once sample had arrived. They emailed me the results.  Hopefully you wont need to wait too long.  Very annoying about the PayPal though as that was much easier.  


Xx


----------



## fififi

Hi all - not got any news but wanted to pop by & see how people are getting on.
Hope there's more smiles than frowns around currently,
Hugs to all xxxx


----------



## deblovescats

Not been on for a few weeks - pretty hectic with baby James! He's now nearly 16 weeks old  - can't believe it! He's gorgeous, Christening on Sunday. Still suffers badly with colic. Coping ok - got loads of support from friends and family. Haven't shared with most people about DE - just with professionals - and it's amazing how many people say he looks like me as a baby, has same curly hair etc ! I don't have any doubts about DE - got my precious little boy! I'm planning on trying for a sibling next year! 
Glad it's going ok sushi - so pleased for you!
Good luck fiffi!
You guys have been amazing, wouldn't have got through my tx without you all, I do so want a happy outcome for everyone else
Deb


----------



## fififi

Debs - delighted life with James is making you so happy. Hope Christening goes well and your happiness continues. A blessing after a struggle makes one hell of a reward.
Knowing there are success stories definitely gives me hope - though have to admit my hope is beginning to struggle as time goes on!
Take care of yourself & that little one


----------



## Louisej29

Debs. Congratulations on little James.  What a lovely success story.  Enjoy every moment and hope the christening goes well on Sunday

Fififi. How are you doing? What happened with your serum results in the end? Did anything flag up?  Dont give up hope - you will get there! 

Alls well with me- IVF 7 worked and now 13 weeks pregnant with twins. Can't quite believe it.  Know it was the IVig transfusions that did it for me. 

How's everyone else doing ?


----------



## Coolish

Louise - congratulations - I must have missed an earlier post!

Fififi - have you finished ABs now? What are your next plans?

Debs - 4 months old already? The time really flies doesn't it? Sounds like you're enjoying motherhood,  especially if you're already thinking of a sibling 

I think there's always hope, but it can get really hard at times to keep the PMA going. I was diagnosed with "unexplained infertility" which basically just means "we don't know whats wrong".


----------



## fififi

Louise - glad things still going well for you & your pregnancy

Serum tests - the 7 in 1 came back all clear but the Locus one showed hidden c. I was prescribed antibiotics but told not to take them until about to cycle as they won't remove the hidden c just suppress it. All a bit frustrating as still in limbo land.
Plan is one last try at DEIVF then if that doesn't work who knows! Been on waiting list since March and now seriously wondering whether we wouldn't be better trying adoption route. Having had a year off from tx we could start adoption process but if have another cycle we will be looking at a good 2 years before getting a child (assuming we were even accepted). Such a dilemma.

Cooljules - I too been given the unexplained title and it really makes things hard. My consultant stated that we truly are the "unexplained" as on every cycle there's been no reason why we've not made it. All signs look great but no BFP.


Feeling extra blue today. One of my sisters gave birth to her 9th child yesterday and sent me way too many photos today. I feel like right evil cow but in all honestly couldn't care less about yet another addition to her family. Life really sucks when my own sister doesn't seem to stop producing kids & I've spent last 6 years doing all I can just to get one and even that has failed.


----------



## Louisej29

Oh fififi.  That must be so hard.  I would feel exactly the same way as you.  9 kids. Life just is not fair at all.  Have you thought about going abroad for DEIVF where you would not have waiting lists to contend with ? 

Keeping everyrhing crossed that when you make it to the top of the list it will finally be your time. Xx


----------



## deblovescats

Glad pregnancy going well Louise. Take care.
It's so frustrating fiffi - I so feel for you when your sister has now got 9 kids! It's so frustrating how some people can just churn out kids. I know I'm so lucky having James. I met up with someone who lives near me and we got chatting on DC Network forum - she's also single and has a son born Jan. We feel it's important that our sons are able to have a potential friend who was conceived in same way! 
Fiffi - it's so frustrating when there are kids needing adoption and you can't be having treatment at the same time. Have you looked into CARE - their waiting lists appear short - I only waited 6 week for an egg donor and no time for sperm donor - just ready when I got egg donor. It might be worth contacting them.
Deb
x


----------



## fififi

Yikes - out of nowhere I got call from my clinic offering me a donor!!!!!

Unsure as physical traits don't match me at all but donor is just 19 so I'm assuming potential for success is pretty high. All set for weekend of deep thought and just hoping I can make a decision.

Decision thoughts required if anyone has any spare to send my way!


----------



## Louisej29

How exciting fififi.  How different are physical traits.  If only a little I'd be tempted to go for it!!  Good luck with decision making x


----------



## Coolish

Fififi - I go to a lot of baby groups and the babies rarely start out looking like mum  I don't think you'd ever get a perfect copy of you in a donor. Go with your gut.


----------



## fififi

Gut all over place due to fact call was very unexpected - 2 weeks ago I was told I was 3rd in line so likely to be Dec before I heard anything.

Donor has light brown hair - I'm light red & DH dark brown/black. Blue eyes - mine green, DH brown/green. Height similar to me but weight very different (me 61 kg compared to her 79 kg, DH very slim & only about 84kg)
She is same blood group as me & CMV neg (like me) with good AMH. These obviously very strong positives.


----------



## fififi

Still unsure and worrying about details I'm sure I needn't!
The saying yes to a match is so hard - as deep down I just want it to be my eggs. I realise nobody else is really going to match me but equally I also feel like I owe it to the potential baby to have made the right choice and ensure they match the rest of his/her family as possible. Wish clinic had just told me they had a match and given me a start date!!!


----------



## fififi

Agggghhhhhh - my head back in turmoil!!!!
We were all set to say yes to the donor when I was given extra information about the donor's weight/BMI. My clinic is describing her as heavy build rather than overweight. Without meaning to come across as sizest this has worried me more than when I thought her lifestyle could have led to her being overweight.
Her hair & eye colour don't match mine but this isn't big deal so can ignore that. But this weight & BMI difference does seem very off the mark. I know we can say she's not suitable to the clinic & we'll now be top of list but am nervous about doing that as would have someone to compare with and may well regret the loss of this offer.
The positives are same blood group & height as me. She's young (percentage chance of success in theory optimal which is what I'm looking for at end of day I guess)
Negatives - different hair & eye colour to me, very different weight/BMI to both me & DH.

Not entirely sure what I'm worrying about anymore but I do know I'm currently feeling unsure still. This may well be jitters that I'd have got given a match where everything was perfect or it could be cos this match is not the right one for us.

What do others who've been though DEIVF think? Should body shape/weight be something I should be looking at as an important factor? Am I just creating obstacles where there needn't be any?


----------



## Coolish

Well this is my two pennies worth.... so sorry if it offends anyone... I've had DE at a couple of clinics - both abroad so anonymous. That was important to me and the OH (plus the no waiting lists, which I know is different in the UK now). 

In Spain, I never asked any information about the the donors - I just knew they were under 30 and 'proven' and should be a good match. I didn't want to get myself obsessing about they eye colours or anything.

In Greece, Penny asked me what characteristics we wanted. We thought about it but my opinion is here that you can try and have a list that would make the donor a perfect 'copy' of you and still have a baby that looks like your partner, or in fact neither of you. I take the view that 2 concert pianist could have a footballing child. There's no guarantees even with OE that your child will look like you and have the same interests. 

Have you read up on epigenetics? The mother and the environment plays as much in developing a child as the DNA - some say it's a 50:50 thing. I think that weight and BMI is more likely driven by the diet and lifestyle of the parents. 

When do you have to decide by?


----------



## Coolish

Oooh, I forgot to say. A couple of weeks ago we took DD over to meet Penny. After a few minutes of fussing DD, Penny looked at me and said "see, I told you she was a good match". I was thrown for a second and couldn't work out what she meant. Then I suddenly realised she was taking about the donor. I completely forget about that side of the IVF - DD is just my cheeky little girl who is already picking up my awful sense of humour  

I'm sure other DE ladies on here will assure you that once you get a BFP, it's YOUR baby not a DE baby - if the eyes are a different colour to your eyes, you'll just marvel about how cute they are.


----------



## fififi

Cooljules - thank you for putting things with such clarity.
I do think it's having the information that's making this hard. Had I just been told the clinic had a match I may well have been curious but would not be fussing over crazy details.
Thinking rationally today I realise it's having those choices that is giving me the feeling I ought to be selecting the best potential attributes possible. Were me & DH to conceive naturally who knows what size, shape, colour child could result. Yes we've a skinny blonde already but that's not to say same genes would get switched on this time.
Sadly I don't have the level of faith in my clinic's desire to get me a good match as you had in Penny. However although I don't see the match as being a great one physically I do think it's a great one for possibilities and at the end of the day that's why we're having DE.


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Fifi.*.. my dear... so sorry I've missed your earlier posts about your donor.. did you make any decisions yet? Hmmm, it's a difficult one re the weight/BMI... what actually is her BMI? 79kg is about 12 stone right? So I don't think this is on the large size. Is she classed as in the overweight category? It's so difficult to make a judgement based on this without appearing sizest. But don't feel you can't do this.... you have to go with what is right for you. You can turn the donor down for all sorts of reasons. Even though it may sound political incorrect. I know exactly what you mean regarding the differences between her being overweight because of lifestyle choices rather than of a heavy bone structure. But as Jules says... this will not necessarily show itself in your child... just like in natural conception there are no guarantees. For example, I am slight build, small feet etc., but my sister is taller, bigger and generally larger boned than I am. We have different colouring and features.. don't even look like sisters. Yet we have the same parents. I take after my Mum and she takes after my Dad's side of the family (my aunt and grandma were bigger ladies). I think you are at that stage where you may regret turning this opportunity down... the positives are great hun. She's young, same blood group, CMV neg, good AMH. These are all brilliant points. I think as donor egg receivers, when we know a lot of details, we can always find something that isn't quite right... I think I was fretting about my donor being taller than me... this is because we ultimately want to be using our own eggs, so struggle with the concept deep-down. If I were you, I'd go for it. Take a deep breath and dive into the deep end!!

xx


----------



## Salad4

Fififi - my thoughts are with you making this decision.  None of it is easy and all of it has the potential to make you question and doubt and change your mind over and over again (or it does me anyway).  I am about to start another DE cycle with a known donor (a friend of mine).  She is physically different to me, but I don't know what the combination of genes with my partner will result in and I just hope it will not result in a carbon copy of her (pretty unlikely I'm guessing).  It was a difficult decision for me, but we've made the decision and I'm sticking with it.
Saladx


----------



## fififi

Thank you so much ladies for your support and fab words of wisdom.
DH & I have decided to go for it as figured in the three donors we've been matched with and had tx with none have been perfect so why wait around for next donor who no doubt we will worry about too!
This lady has the best potential so far and since it is to be last shot that aspect is probably highest on our wish list. Now got to wait until Mon when the clinic donor coordinator is back in to see how soon we can start.


Salad - what a wonderful friend you have. Once epigenetics played it's part I'm sure you will see more of you in him/her than you thought possible. Time for us both to start getting excited!
When are you hoping to have tx?

Sushi - wow your dates are moving along fast. Are you 20 weeks now? Your signature says all scans gone well so bet you're really growing in confidence now (& size!!!)
When's your due date? Have you allowed yourself to start making proper plans as regards to nursery/buying stuff?
I'm so excited for you!


Apologies for dominating this thread over last week with my nervousness. Will hope that we can now have flutter of happy threads.
Do hope everyone is well & especially big hi & hugs to those who've not posted for a while. Once my head settled from all it's recent spinning I'll try & write a proper post with personals.


----------



## artist_mum

*fifif* it's great you've made your decision - and you're right, another donor would just give you other things to ponder. I do think that sometimes more information can just make it harder. Hope it all goes smoothly for you from here x


----------



## fififi

Thanks ArtistMum


----------



## deblovescats

fiffi  - just wanted to echo what they other girls have said! 
You need to go with your gut instinct but you can deliberate too long. I was offered a donor and had basic characteristics but tried not to worry too much about it because I thought I need to go for it! I was concerned the donor was much taller than me - 5' 11 but colouring the same, didn't find out her age at the time. However, donor co-ordinator said sperm donor was 5'7 so that the measurements should even out. I was just grateful to have a chance to progress. As the donor was egg share, I was concerned that there could be an issue with it working, but after James was born, I was able to find out that the donor had had a daughter. So I'm optimistic that my frozen embryos are also strong. 
The  colouring of both donors and CMV status is the same, but blood group is different - but my mother has the same blood group.
I haven't shared info about the donation with anyone so far - but its amazing how many people are saying that James looks like me, looks like me as a baby and has the same blue eyes and curly hair! 
I am totally in love with him and forget about him being donor conceived. I think that it's us who nurture the child in our womb and care for them when they arrive, so the issue of origin soon goes to the wall, so it doesn't matter too much about the donor.
Good luck with your decision
Deb


----------



## Louisej29

Fififi.  Great you've made your decision and think you've done the right thing. ! Now you can look ahead with excitement to your cycle and fingers crossed this is the one and you'll get a great Xmas present ! 

Love  to everyone else.  Xxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Fifi*... Great! I'm really pleased you reached a decision hun. As you've said, you may wait for the next donor and then find a different characteristic to worry about. This lady sounds perfect. Looking forward to Monday and finding our your next steps! We are all routing for you.

I'm ok thanks... can't believe how time is flying. I'll be 20 weeks next Tuesday, so over half way through as twins usually arrive earlier. I have my anomaly scan on Wed the 5th. My bump is growing nicely! It depends on what I wear regarding it being noticeable. Some work colleagues still haven't twigged! If i wear shift dress and a jacket I don't really look any different, but a fitted top and trousers and suddenly it's sticking out. Can't feel any movement yet, but the last scan showed the bubbas are wriggling around all over the place, so it's only a matter of time before I feel something.

Hello to *Louise, Artist, Salad (good luck with your cycle), Deb, Jules* ... hope everyone is ok.

xxx


----------



## Altai

Sushi - glad everything goes well with your prg

Louise - congratulation on your pregnancy, I think I missed your post, too.

Deb -  hope Christening went well and you and James are both happy.
Salad - what a wonderful friend you have. 

Fifif - great you made your decision and wishing you successful outcome.

afm- having had 5 failed oe cycles, am moving to combo de/oe. This is more complicated. I'd thought Ive chosen a clinic which meets most of my requirements when suddenly an agency came with a new donor. This one a is better match - same blood group and 26, looks am happy with, she is "en route" between surrogacy programme and potentially ED.
The problem is the donor agency cost, which makes the whole cycle so  expensive as have to pay for my tx, donor' and agency fee. 
I was out of work for several months and had to finance 2 more cycles during, now temping, in debt so money is really tight. 
The clinic' donor is 29, will be 30 next year when she could  potentially do ED after giving birth. Blood group is acceptable as my coparents mother has the same. She donated before and pregnancy was successful. I wont see her photo. 
How funny both proposed donors are having/just had  a child.... 

hi to everyon hope all goes well.


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Altai*... thanks hun. The donor sounds great! Is she from a similar area to you in Russia? The money side of it sounds tough and I can't even imagine how much those agency fees are  Can Mr Coparent help out a tiny bit? Or is it a difficult situation?

xx


----------



## Altai

Hi ladies, hope eve body is doing well. 

Sushi- the agency fee starts from £3.5k, can be higher depending on donor' fee & whether she is from the regions, in which case you have  to refund their flight/accommodation etc in Moscow on too of the agency fee. 
I had to let this donor go as found myself out of of work sooner than I had expected. 
Unfortunately, he can't help with ivf costs so only pays for his tests/flights when required. 

Fifi - hope all goes well with yr cycle. 

Hi to artist, Louise, debs salad to all whoop I missed.


----------



## LellyLupin

Hello lovely ladies, thought I would drop in to say hello.  Hope you are all well.  Congratulations Debs on your lovely little chap.  Will have to spend a bit of time catching up and reading everyones posts so I know what you have all been up to.  I am going to go for donor egg after Christmas so any tips would be most helpful.  I lost my little pooch Suzy last month so 2014 has definitely been the worst year of my life, so 2015 I am going to make my year and I will get my baby.  Going to spend a bit of time reading back so catch you all later xx


----------



## LellyLupin

Wow lots has been going on while I have been trying to get my head straight, lots of DE pregnancies I am happy to say!  Sushi lover I am so so pleased twins - wow.  Hopeful I am so sorry you lost your pup, I know exactly how you feel chick.  Fifi I see you have been having a very emotional time and have had a real roller coaster ride, I am sorry I wasn't there for you xx  

So great to see everyone is still on here, thanks for your concern for my absence, I just needed to regroup after so many losses this year.  Still reeling from losing Suzy but happy to report that Mum and dad are doing ok now.  

Debs is motherhood all you hoped it would be?  I would still like to meet up when you are free xx



Thank


----------



## deblovescats

Lesley - sent you a message. Glad your parents ok. Sorry to hear about Suzy. I'm loving mother hood - finding it fine on my own, but gots lots of support. Would love to meet up - will message you again.
Glad you're doing well sushi.
Deb


----------



## fififi

Lesley - lovely to see a message from you       
Sorry to hear about Suzy - that must have been final straw for you. Good news that both parents well again - long may that continue    
Exciting stuff that you're joining us in the DE camp. Will this be with your UK clinic or are you considering Serum? What does DP think? Hopefully 2015 will prove to be super baby year for us ladies on this thread. Happy to answer any questions re donor egg that you have - either on here or PM me

debs - glad to see you're still in touch. Bet you can't wait until Xmas so you can really spoil your little man. Big squishy hugs to both of you     

Sushi - seen from your signature that you've had 20 week scan already. Where's that time gone?!!!! Delighted all going well for you and looking forward to hearing more updates soon     

Altai - sorry to see you lost out on the donor. It seems that there are quite a lot of young-ish donors at your agency so hopefully someone else will be matched with you soon and they seem even better than last one. Fate might be intervening for a good reason        
Hope you find more work again soon. Are you wanting to do temping work at the minute or have you hopes for another permanant job should something come up?

Hi & hugs to everyone else - supposedly working so no time to write any more personals, sorry!       


AFM - Having accepted donor I now am having to wait until January to cycle as my clinic not keen on cycles running over Xmas period. Bit frustrated as really wanted to get going - having been on waiting list since failed DE cycle in March. Also tad worried that the dates for this new cycle will be the same as my failed one and I will be nervous that same will happen again. I know both cycles are different & the realistically the dates are irrelevant but being a slightly superstitious type I'd rather there hadn't been this clash!
Also me & DH need to take antibiotics for month prior to cycle - having tested positive for hidden C in Serum tests in Sept - so annoyingly that will now clash with Xmas and means neither of us can even have a little drink - grrrr! (Haven't let DH know this yet so hope he'll have started the ABs before realising!!!!  )


----------



## LellyLupin

Hi Feefs  yes losing Suzy was the final straw for me, she was the love of my life.  I hope to go to my own clinic if they will accept me as I am now over the age they cover, I am hoping that as my fertility results were so good that they will take me on.  I haven't told DP what I am planning yet, he told me to do what makes me happy so I am.  If he won't support me its splitsville this time, all our relationship I have done whatever he wanted so its my turn now. His kids are practically grown up, we are both back in secure jobs, so there is no excuse this time.  Mam and dad are ok so its the right time.

I would love to hear about your experience and the clinic you have chosen if you would be happy to share, if my clinic won't accept me I need to find somewhere else.


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Lesley*... so lovely to 'hear' and 'see' you on the thread again! I'm so, so sorry to hear you lost dear Suzy. We all knew how much you loved her. You'll miss her dreadfully. I will remember fond times of us talking about her doggie googles! I am so pleased to hear of your plan for next steps. If DP has told you to do what makes you happy, then you must go for it. Why won't your own clinic accept you? Have you thought about having a consultation with the lovely Penny at Serum? She's on a roll at the moment with tons of BFPs!
*
Fifi*.... I am 23 weeks today and can't quite believe my luck still. There is no disguising the bump anymore... it's suddenly popped out and the babies wriggle around non-stop. Everyday I thank my lucky stars for these miracle babies I will meet in March and I'm pleased I didn't give up. So glad you accepted the donor hun. That's good to hear. As for ABs and a little drink... I'm sure a few glasses of something won't do much harm? It means they won't work as well, but you take them for a whole month, so it's a strong course of treatment. Try and put the superstitions out of your head because you need your head to be in the right place. If you are worrying about this it won't help you to relax. The dates being similar are irrelevant as you know. Try and put it to the back of your mind...it's totally different this time.
*
Altai*... how are you lovie? Sorry to hear your job finished before you expected and you had to let the donor go. Have you found something else yet?

Hello *Louise, Debs, Salad, Hopeful, Jules, Artist*... hope everyone is well.

xx


----------



## Coolish

*Lesley *- as some of the other ladies have said - lovely to 'see' you again. So sorry to hear about Suzy. It really is awful when we lose pets - I lost my gorgeous Hamish 14 years ago and I still get upset about him. It gets better, but doesn't go away completely. So pleased you've made the decision for moving onto DE. I know you mentioned your own clinic, but if I were you I would have an email and telephone consultation with Penny, just to see what she would suggest and see if you liked what she said. Cost-wise, it would probably be the same as a DE cycle in the UK (I think), and her intuition and results just speak for themselves. Have you done hidden c?

*Sushi* - 23 weeks is a good time - over the first trimester, but not into the 3rd yet. It's also really nice to feel the wriggling around before they start to kick the [email protected] out of you  Also thanks for your good wishes on the Serum thread. Things are feeling very weird for me at the moment xx

*Fififi *- frustrating to wait until after Christmas, but it will be hear before you know it. Regarding the ABs, we had the luxury of an extra month so we started them on Jan 2nd, but you can still have a little drink, just not to excess. I still had the odd glass of wine when I was taking them. I've had to take them all again before this cycle and still had the odd snifter 

Hi to *Debs*, *Altai*, *Louise*, *Artist_mum*, *salad* and anyone wlse I've missed xx

It's only about 4 weeks now until DD's 1st birthday. It goes so quickly


----------



## deblovescats

Keeping fingers crossed jules! 
welcome Ella - glad you've made the decision to give it another go - sorry about your losses. 
The girls on here are so supportive. 
There is hope - I got a BFP on my 3rd DE IVF - now proud mummy to gorgeous baby James (21 weeks). Loving being a mum. Like JUles - planning on trying again next year for a sibling!
Christmas will be great this year.
Deb


----------



## fififi

Quick question for those who were prescribed antibiotics for hidden c by Serum. Did you take them the month before your cycle began or from day 1 of actual cycle?
I've emailed Serum but not heard back. Got AF today & clinic has said that they intend my cycle to start on next one - which will be about 24 Dec (lovely xmas gift that 😄😄😄!!!!!) Having been told by Serum to only take them prior to cycle I want to make sure I've got correct timing. Thanks x


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Fififi - I took them in July/August and then again as a pretreatment formy cycle in October as well as during the treatment. I'm also on them post BFP.....I'm afraid it really is a whole lot of antibiotics  


Make sure you take your probiotics hun - a strong one at lunchtime so doesn't effect the antibiotics absorption (unless you a find a non dairy one). Good luck  

Grey xxx


----------



## fififi

Thanks Grey
The doctor who contacted me after test said just one month course of ABs immediately prior to ivf cycle. Was told not good to repeat too soon.  That's all I've prescription for. Since cycle is with UK clinic they will not approve I'm sure so have only the 1 months worth.
I've allergy to one of the ABs so just got the doxyclycline which cannot be taken if pg. Not sure what if anything they'd suggest should I get lucky.

What probiotic did you take? Not researched that yet! Did you take the anti sickness tablets too?


----------



## artist_mum

hi everyone

*lesley* lovely to have you back on here and glad things are well with your parents. Sympathies on losing the lovely Suzy.. so very hard. My dog is 7 years old and I can only imagine how hard it is to lose your best friend. We've recently had a litter and she ended up with an emergency caesarian - that 2 hours was the worst ever, not knowing if she'd come through. Luckily she did, with 5 pups in tow! I'm really thrilled that your time is coming and really respect you for waiting for your moment. Wishing you wisdom in getting to the right place/clinic and getting the right result xx

*cooljules* thinking of you (i've just caught up with the other serum thread) and hoping the results are not as you thought. On the age thing, if it isn't to be on this one.. well.. you know there are other options but equally I"m sure you will work out what's best for the 3 of you. sending a big . (and thanks for your encouragement to me - it's much appreciated )

*fififi * i took those ABs and didn't feel any sickness, nor did DP when he took them. Eating the probiotic stuff might help unless you have a diary problem of course.. (yoghurt etc). Anyway, I'm sure you know all that! Good luck, it's all coming up for you which is lovely, everything crossed.

*debs* sorry haven't written to you, but sounds like all is going well with the lovely James! I'm trying to keep focussed on what I need to do to make it happen, as well as keeping up with life in general. I bet you're thinking - wait til you have a baby and then see about keeping up with things!! Hope you're doing well and enjoying the big adventure of being Mum. Big hug to you too.

*sushi* hello my lovely! Long time no catch up! Really glad to see all is well with you three  I'm still plotting and planning and haven't given up. Actually up in London tomorrow to see a consultant - and tacking on a bit of art of course! Send me your good baby vibes, won't you?! And take care of you x

*altai* sorry to hear about missing out on this donor, we too have had to wait due to finances which is really hard to bear so I have every sympathy. I'm also looking for work and it does put a lot of pressure when the money isn't lined up. You'll get there though - fingers crossed for you. I"m sure your determination will win through.

hi to *salad, grey, Louise, Ella* hope you're all getting through this maze in one way or another!

AFM I have an appointment tomorrow with one of the 2 recommended Asherman's Syndrome Consultants in the UK. I felt we needed a 2nd opinion after the hystos in Greece because the condition (diagnosed by Serum's consultant) is not trivial. You can imagine that it just feels like yet another hurdle and i'm not the spring chicken I used to be  But I won't give up. DP is so supportive and we are more stable with the steppies now so I feel it's our turn. We're waiting for money to get sorted and see what this guy says tomorrow. Us girls on here.. we deserve a bloody medal for sheer persistence - don't we?!?!?!

Love to all
Artist
xx


----------



## A J

Hi ladies,
I hope you don't mind me joining but have been wondering where to call 'home' ATM and as I
recognise some names and know some of you from other threads I thought I would say hi.

Jules... Fingers crossed that the hpt was wrong and that tomorrow will bring you better news xx

Ella....like you I have had 10 losses now- what on earth did we do to deserve this? And still finding the strength to carry on. Where have you been to cycle- I have done some in Spain and 2 at Serum plus some spontaneous pregnancies in the mix- yet all with the same outcome despite readjusting Meds, having 3 Hystos etc!  Not really sure what to do next? What plans do you have? Sorry if you have already posted but not had chance to read back.

Will try to look back at some of everyone's posts so I know who I'm talking to

AJ xx


----------



## Altai

Sushi- can't believe already 23 weeks. Where all the time has gone? Glad to hear you all doing well. 

Fifi - I think Jan is a good time to start a cycle- new year, new beginning and hopes. Plus, you could enjoy Xmas festivities before your ttx,  shame about not  being able to drink thou 

Ella- welcome. Sorry  about your losses. Best of luck with your  next steps. 

Artist- hope your appointment went well. It always good to get a second opinion and to see what the options are. I keep telling myself that I have the rest of my life to pay off my debts but a very limited reproductive time  left... But I do wish ivf costs were a bit more reasonable. 

Lesley - sorry about your pet. But lovely to hear that you are back on track and planning next steps. Hope you'll find the right clinic. It's a such a minefield, isn't it? I am planning de cycle in russia and donors are almost always under 30 and never over 32 and must have a healthy child/ren of their own before they are allowed to donate. I can recommend Ava Peter clinic in russia, good success rate, plus choose your own donor option. 

Debs, Jules - fx crossed for the siblings plans, you are very brave ladies. 

Aj-welcome, sorry about your losses. It's a tough journey and a lottery game with few winners. We just have to keep trying as long as could.

Afm- perhaps it's really not my time yet to move to de. On top of losing job, there has been another blow my coparent has been refused visa to russia. It's very unusual and rare. I've now got another temp job and still looking for a perm.  But of course have to put de cycle on hold for the time being and keep on ttx au naturelle  

Hi to to all who I missed and who is reading

Hugs 
A.


----------



## Sushi Lover

*Altai*... Yep, time sure does fly! Sorry to hear your co-parent was refused his Russian visa... what a blow for you. Do they have to give a reason?

*AJ*... so sorry you've had to join us. You've really been through the mill. Has Penny at Serum made any suggestions as to the next steps? Are you OE or DE?
*
Ella*... thanks for your good wishes. Dreams do come true. I never though I'd be lucky enough to be in this position and I know everyone says that... but you always think you'll be that odd 1% or something. So don't give up hope.
*
Artist*... Sorry I've been terrible with emailing hun. How are you? How did the appt with the consultant go re Asherman's syndrome? So glad to hear things are more stable with DP and the step children. You deserve some luck and a bit of a break. I sent some subliminal positive messages of luck through the airwaves!

Hello to *Lesley* and *Fififi*

xxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

*AJ*... sorry, just noticed in your signature the history of OE, DE and DD. Did Penny detect a sperm issue as well? It's so difficult to pin-point where things go wrong in the whole process isn't it? I'd be interested to hear what Penny has advised on next steps. xx


----------



## Whoppie

Hello ladies,

I am new to this forum and after 6 failed ivf cycles really feeling desperate.

What are most of you taking to improve egg quality?
Or from which advise do you really feel some benefits.


----------



## deblovescats

Thanks altai  - I do wonder sometimes about my sanity! Just feel I have to give it a go - although obviously Im so thankful for my little one - would just like to give him a sibling - we'll see what happens! At the moment, just enjoying him - still breast feeding so would have to give it 3 months or so after I stop. My clinic have said just to arrange a review apt when I'm ready - so maybe in Jan/Feb for a review and to plan ahead, might try May, June, July ...- sorry your co-parent hasn't got a visa. 
Hope everything going well sushi.
Hope your plans are going well Lesley.
Jules - hope you have a good xmas and your plans in jan for a sibling.
Good luck for everyone having tx in New Year - hope everyone has a lovely xmas.
Deb


----------



## A J

Hi ladies, just a quick if from me sorry but to answer a couple of questions.Penny did think it could be a sperm issue (I wasn't convinced as DH has 2 biological children from his first marriage) but I went with her suggestion as nothing was making any difference. But even with DD it was exactly the same result- a failed pregnancy. She has suggested Neupogen in the next cycle but no real evidence that it could work.
I have an appt tomorrow at CRGW where I have been for scans etc to see their take on it all. Plus its only 40mins from me- a bit easier than the journeys over to Spain and Greece that I have done over the years. 
AJ xx


----------



## WayneE

Hi ladies I hope you don't mind if I join this forum. 

Whoppie, It's very hard to know what to do, in fact I can't think of anything else.  When I read the success stories I feel hopeful and want to continue but I have to remind myself that not everyone will get the outcome their heart desires.  

I've DOR and, after two failed ICSI I decided to up my vitamin regime, in May, to try to improve quality and quantity. I'm on DHEA, CoQ10, MACA and pregnacare. Was on royal jelly but they ran out so I've ordered more.  At one point I was on 11 extra vits and supplements but I didn't replace them when 3 month supply ran out. I know for sure the DHEA is doing something as my hair is really greasy and I've spots like I had when I was at school  

Anyway I just had my 3rd IVF cancelled as I had no response to 450 menopur. Was devastated on Saturday when I had my final scan. Spent the weekend crying.  I am convinced that I had no response because, for the first time, I was put on the BCP. I have since found out that that's not a good move when you're DOR as you can over suppress the ovaries. Today I changed clinics and had an AMH blood test. Hopefully that will show if all my vits and suppliments have made any change.  More importantly I might just be able to use the information to decide how to move forward.


----------



## Whoppie

Dear Wayne, sorry to read your cycle has been cancelled.

My last cycle was also the worst one.. For the first time I was on 450 high dose..
On day 7 scan, only 2 follicles.. At Ec, only 4 eggs collected but only 1 fertilised.

This was our worst result ever.. Also ended in a BFN.

As I took 3 months DHEA beforethis cycle, I didn't know what caused this bad result.
Or it was the high dose or the DHEA.

I stopped now on DHEA and I am looking for other mirales 

Someone which has good results wth pycnogenol/resveratrol ?


What is als BCP ?


----------



## WayneE

BCP is Birth Control Pill

I know what you're saying about DHEA. I've read some women think it's fab and others not so much. I'll get results of AMH in a week or so and compare with previous taken in March last year.  It's hard to know if it's the DHEA having a negative effect or the BCP or just that I'm that bit older.


----------



## Altai

Debs- I must admit I want 2 kids as well, ideally twins so get away with this in one go. 

Sushi- am so envy you. I don't think I could get 2 in my combo cycle as in russia they usually put 1or 2 blasts, 3 would be max. Am planning to put all mine (i don't get many blasts anyway) & one donors. 
The embassy told him they didn't  believe tourism was  a genuine reason of visit. We'd thought better not to say about fertility treatment. 

Whoopie- not sure about suppl getting you better egg quality. I took any vit & supplement known, incl chinese herbs, nothing made a difference. 
I am now convinced that nothing can turn chromosomally abnormal egg into normal. 
With dhea it's always suggested to have dhea test done before as can give too much testerone. 

Wayne - sorry about your cancelled cycle. I think with dose it's an individual thing. I got good response on 450. 

AJ -  have y done immune testing? Perhaps worth giving a shot? I am doing it for my last oe cycle with dr Gorgy and planning nk cells endo biopsy with dr Quenby. 
Just to be sure I've given the best possible chance to my old eggies. 

Hi to all who I missed & who is reading


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## deblovescats

Good luck altai!
Hope all going well sushi.
Deb


----------



## LellyLupin

Hello everyone, just been reading all your posts, its so satisfying to read about those of us who are pregnant, I just love it.   ^ after all the disappointments I have read over the years I am happy to read good news.

Thanks for all the lovely posts about Suzy, I really appreciate your kindness, I do miss her so very much. She was my catalyst in the decision to go de, I lost my baby.  I am keeping busy with my hedgehog rescue until after xmas when I am going to approach my doctor re de.  I am going to see if he will accept me before I look at Penny, I had all my hidden c tests with her and they came back negative.  I am so excited I just hope 2015 is my year after such a horrible 2014.  

Great that we are going to meet up Debs I can't wait to see you and James, love that you are enjoying being a mum.  Sushi I can't wait until March when you have your little ones.    

Great to see you back again Ella I remember you of course. 

Roxy hope you are ok. glad you are on an even keel with the stepkids.  Mine are now 13 and 17.  Joe is going in the navy as a helicopter pilot and Lucy is just as dizzy as ever.  Shes now 3 inches taller than me, I am trying to get her to consider modelling, she is so pretty and is definitely going to be over six foot tall.  Although they do not have my genes I am very proud that they are such good kids, even if stepmotherhood can be such a challenge at times. 

Hello to all the new names, you will find lots of support on here, at times I think I would have gone mad if I couldn't share on here.  Its such an emotional journey no-one else can understand.

Merry Christmas to all of you I hope 2015 will be a fab year for us all


----------



## LellyLupin

Oops meant to ask with regards to DE, how does it work, can someone explain the process please.  Do I still down reg?  Then how do they know when you are really to receive an egg,  do I have to ovulate so the environment is right?  Any info would be gratefully received.  xx


----------



## deblovescats

Hi Lesley
Glad to see you're ok. I'm looking forward to meeting up. I'll message you so we can fix it up. I can tell you all about clinics and DE etc. Basically, you have screening tests as you would for OE - such as blood type, CMV status, HIV, chlamydia etc. If it's a fresh DE cycle, you still need to down reg so that you can be co-ordinated with donor for when she's ready for EC and ET can be sorted out. It isn't as difficult as OE cycle though. If it's FET I think you don't need down reg as there's no donor to co-ordinate with. The clinic I went to was CARE Sheffield, who were very thorough and organised - was very happy with them, and planning to go back from my frosties next year! Dr Shakker the consultant and the Donor Nurse were lovely.
Hope you have a lovely Christmas everyone.
Will catch up Lesley. 
Good luck to everyone having tx. Take care sushi.
Deb


----------



## Coolish

Hey Lesley I didn't downreg with my de cycles.  You just need to get ready/sync with the donor. I'd liken it a bit to an oe FET - no ec, just the drugs and a lining scan usually. We left frozen sperm with Penny so didn't need to be there for ec. Hopefully 2015 is going to be a good year for you


----------



## LellyLupin

Thanks Deb & Jules,  wasn't looking forward to the egg farming bit, I had 55 eggs on my first go and that bit was agony, shame not one of them made it to blastocyst and I was in the beginning stages of OHSS!


----------



## fififi

Happy 2015 to you all - may it be a year full of happiness    



AFM - signed consents at my clinic today. Starting DR on the 13th and having hysteroscopy that day too. My donor & other recipient start DR this week so hopefully will be fairly quick time wise.
Feeling bit apprehensive as this is to be final attempt. DH wanted to stop after last try but have convinced him for 1 last go so that we gave DE a true 50/50 shot. Pulling out all the stops I can think of  this time so if it doesn't work at least I know there was pretty much nothing else we could do. Just need to start eating a bit more healthily as my December diet been rather over indulgent in compensation for lack of alcohol!!! Really need to get pg if only to have an excuse for the huge chocolate tum I seemed to have acquired!!!



Hope everyone had a good Xmas time and managed a bit of time away from the constant TX headache / thought process.
Huge hugs to all


----------



## deblovescats

Good luck Fiffi - you deserve it! Hope 2015 brings you your dream.
AFM - loving every moment with my darling baby. Planning ahead for Number 2.
Hope everyone on here  gets their motherhood dream in 2015.
Deb


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Good luck Fififi - you really have pulled put all  the stops so keeping everything crossed that this is your time  

Grey xxx


----------



## fififi

Thanks ladies.
Hopefully I'll be bringing joyous new to thread soon to start out happy 2015 off


----------



## rosie71

Is it ok to copy something I've put in another section. I need all the help I can get at the moment.
I've just had my 3rd fail, although I've got the chance of trying again with 2 frozen. I'm really finding it hard, it didn't help I was stupid enough to think it had worked this time, everything went how it should, apart from period like pains before and after ET. But even though I tried to stop myself, near the end of the 2ww I kept thinking I saw signs, and almost convinced myself it had worked. Now I'm in a void, I think I'm copying then something reminds me or someone says something and I get upset. There are also times I get angry, at my body mainly but anything or anyone  that I think is at fault. I'm also angry because  I know my period will be coming and because of endometriosis don't want to have it really painful again, which I'm sure it will be. Sorry for going on, but I'm at a low, and need to talk to people who know how I'm feeling. When I've had my period, I'm going to see the counsellor, which hopefully will help.


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Hi Rosie - sorry to hear about your bfn   It's a horrible feeling and not one anyone else can understand except others on this journey. It's tough   Before you try again with your FET have you thought about doing some sort of fertility cleanse to get yourself in the best shape physically and emotionally. Have you tried things like Castor oil packs on your belly to prepare your womb for implantation? I'm sure you're taking supplements like coq10 and have you tried Agnes castus to prepare your womb too?

Throwing ideas at you....hope you don't mind, I just find, for me, I need to have a plan and be able to feel like I'm doing something myself - hope you're doing ok. Keep posting - "talking" helps  

Grey xx


----------



## deblovescats

Hi Rosie
Welcome to the thread. So sorry to hear your news and I totally understand how you're feeling. It's perfectly normal - just take time to get yourself together and don't  give up!
I had two attempts at DE IVF (one FET) both BFN and felt like you. I changed clinics and then 2013, had DE IVF and got my amazing BFP - now have a gorgeous 6 month old son who I love so much. Never thought it would happen. I'm planning on trying again for a sibling with my frosties later this year. So it can happen.
Good luck
Deb


----------



## rosie71

Thankyou very much for your replies  

Ellaa- You've been really helpful thanks  I asked my counsultant if having endo would effect the treatment but he said it won't because they put the embie in layers underneath the outside layers, something like that anyway. I also had an endo scratch before this go. It does make you wonder though about what endo can do. I kind of looked at an endo diet but never did anything about it. But I think I might have a go,  after what you've said it sounds like it could be a help. Where did you get yours from? I also really want to get abit more fitter to, I think I read that can help as well.
I did try relaxtion, but think maybe I should do alot more next time, to stop me getting too stressed.
No I hadn't thought bout trying another protocol, but I will look into that thanks. I only found out about the endo scratch from coming in groups like this  I will be seeing my counsultant at the end of the month so I'm going to get as much information before then as I can. Do you know how to find an endo ivf  specialist.? How are things with you? 

Grey- Thanks for your reply   Any ideas are really helpful. I've learnt so much from talking to other people online. Yes I'm the same, I like to feel I'm in control with it as much as I can, and feel it's better to do things that might help. I've not heard of the castor oil packs. But I have coq10 and I think  Agnes castus. I wasn't sure whether to take them or not. so ended up not taking them. I've made a note of everything and will look into them    I was having a very bad day emotionally today, but went for a walk a few hours ago, and that seemed to help. So at the moment I'm alot better thanks   How are things with you?

Deb- Thanks for your reply   Congratulations on your son  .. There is about 30% of me that wants to give up, because of going through it all again. But the other part of me, wants to try with these last 2. I don't want to regret not having tried. I've heard of a few people changing clinics. we went to this one mainly because it's the nearest and also I know someone who went there before me. The other one I thought of is at least double the time to get there. It's hard to know what to do. Good luck for your next try too.


----------



## Coolish

Hey Rosie - I'm afraid I can't offer any advice with endo. I had 4 failed DE attempts. I was convinced there must be something missing. I changed clinics as my old clinic couldn't offer me anything different - we'd tried 2 donors and it would be the same protocol again. I did the hidden c test and had a hysto and was trested for immunes too. I also did some relaxation - I listened to Circle+Bloom. I finally got my gorgeous DD 2 days after my 49th birthday - she turned 1 just 5 days before Christmas (2 days after my 50th). 

Have you read Agate's FAQ relating to failed attempts? That's a really good starting point. Having something like the hidden c test is relatively cheap at about 170 euros (I've spent £30k on IVF so it was a drop in the ocean  Some things you can do without even changing clinics, but could hopefully improve your chances with your frosties.

Hello to all you other lovely ladies - Fififi - are you underway with your cycle now?


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## fififi

Rosie - hope you're feeling slightly more upbeat than this time last week. Ivf is so hard as you need positivity to get through the cycle yet at the end the pain of failure seems extra hard once your hopes are at a high.
The others have given lots of good suggestions. I'm in similar-ish boat to you in that have been having tx for long time (nearly 12 yrs in my case) and aside from endo no other real explanation been found as to why I don't seem to conceive. Or, on the rare occasion I did, bar one wonderful miracle, I lose the babies before 12 weeks. I have had pretty much everything tested,, including NK cells and all negative. This time I did the full Serum testing and showed positive for hidden c on one of the tests so took antibiotics for month (Dec) prior to starting DR. Not fully convinced by the test but am hoping that extra something may just have made a difference.
I'm onto my final IVf cycle now (DE) and other thing I've done differently is have a hysteroscopy on day I started DR instead of just a endo scratch. This hopefully will prepare my uterus as best as possible.

Cooljules - yep, started cycle now. Had hysteroscopy & started DR last Tuesady. All pretty non eventful so far. Have DR scan next week - assuming AF comes before then. If that goes to plan, and donor & other recipient both ready then ET should be mid Feb.
Feeling quite mixed. For sake of my marriage and general happiness this is to be the last try. Plus financially we've spent nearly 40k now & I'm getting fed up of passing up anything that would be a "treat" cos we can't afford it. This "last go" is making me feel quite sad and that combined with my negative experiences to date is making it hard to muster belief that it might work. Equally I've fallen too many times to allow myself to get my hopes up too much. But that said - I do feel like I should be feeling more excited. (Wee and truly confused.com here!!!! 😂)


Hope everyone else doing ok. I'll update once get news. Any spare baby dust / positivity / good wishes gratefully received xxx


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## deblovescats

Good luck fififi - I do so hope it works for you. Take time to think things through - but you'll know when it's time to stop trying.
AFM - James doing great - loving having him, enjoying going out to groups with him. I feel so blessed to have him. Deciding when to try again for no 2 - probably try June, July or August.
jules - good luck for your next attempt.
Rosie -hope you're doing ok.
Deb


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Oh Fififi - so much good luck to you my loveky     And plenty of baby dust   I so want this to be your time  

Hope everyone else is ok  

Grey xx


----------



## LellyLupin

Hello lovely ladies and a Happy New year to you all.

Rosie I am so sorry you are feeling so low, we have all been there at one point or another.  I have had two failed IVFs and did the same as you on the second one, I felt so sick I was convinced I was pregnant, I even had to take the air freshener out of the car as it made me ill.  I then got a BFN and it knocked me off my feet for a while.  You will feel better hard as it is, we all understand how you feel as we all have been in your shoes.  Don't forget you have support here always.

Debs and Jules I love reading that you are happy Mums,  can you believe it huh Mums I bet every now and then you take a step back and thank your lucky stars  

Feefs I want good news from you this year, you so deserve to be a mum I really really pray hard for you, you want this so badly it has to happen it just has to    


AFM I have a new baby DP brought me a puppy home.  Have to say I was not ready and am not over my Suzy, I wanted some time to grieve for her.  DP brought me a little boy, same breed but smooth, he is a total nightmare compared to Sue.  I will love him eventually but at the mo I am finding him a challenge cute as he is.  He makes me miss Suzy more as I can't feel the bond I had with her.  I was hoping she would haunt me but I can't feel her presence in the house at all.  

I texted my consultant today to see if he would accept me for donor egg, just awaiting his reply.  I didn't dare ring as I was too emotional, I am over the age limit for his clinic but I am hoping  that my fertility levels were so go he will grant me a consession. Also trying to sort out a bank loan but have no idea of the cost involved as we will have to have icsi too. 2015 is going to be my year I am going to make it so!!!

Much love to you all   to all of us xx


----------



## LellyLupin

Meant to say Sushi how are you doing?  And Roxy are you out there, what is happening with you?

XXX


----------



## deblovescats

Happy New Year to you Lesley! 
Glad to see you back again. 
Thanks for your message - I'll message you back.
I do feel so happy and lucky to have my little boy - and so wish it for everyone on the thread. You all so deserve it. I hope that our positive outcome can give everyone hope. 
I have found this thread so supportive - and it kept me going when I was undergoing tx. 
Poor little James is not well at the moment - he has a nasty cough, blocked nose, congested ears, sore throat and he's teething! Poor little soul. 
Deb


----------



## fififi

Thanks for good wishes from everyone. Your support means more than I can say. At present I've not told anyone I know in everyday life that we're having a final try so good to share on here. Plus since all of us have experienced the highs, lows & emotional roller coaster that IVf brings it helps to know there's someone out there who understands me.


Lesley - hope your clinic says yes. My DE cycle at Nottingham is £5750 - including HFEA fee £75, £450 for blast transfer and £125 embryo glue. At my clinic it's extra £450 for ICSI. That's with shared donor so me getting 50% of the eggs produced.


----------



## LellyLupin

Thanks for the info Feefs that's not as bad as I thought, I was thinking about 7k    I think if we all do end up with babies we should meet up somewhere, after all we've been through so much together.  So excited about Sushi's twins, how marvellous to be having two that would be my dream.  My consultant texted me back to say he remembered me but didn't say he would take me on.  Don't know whether to text him again or wait a day or so, I hate this feeling of helplessness, what if he says no!  

Thanks for the kind word Ellaa, I must admit I wouldn't have chosen Max, although he is a handsome fella which everyone comments on, I would have gone for a little girl with big eyes like my Sue.  I do feel fond of him I just don't feel that absolute adoration I had for Suzy.  He doesn't smell the same either, and hes so chunky whereas she was a like a little dainty doll.  I know I have to love him for him and stop comparing, I am sure it will come.  Hes very spoilt already and hes got loads of toys and he loves a cuddle so he will win me over  

Deb sorry to hear James is not well hope he gets better soon, you'll have to post a picture so we can see him as Jules did with her lovely little girl xx


----------



## Coolish

Lesley - text him straight back! Take the bull by the horns  He renembers you so should be able to give you a quick response. Taking charge really helps with that helpless/hopeless feeling. Also gave a look around at some other clinics as a plan b. Debs has used a UK clinic with success and fififi has given you prices for another uk clinic. If you want to venture abroad,  when I went to Spain it was 7500 euros for DE, in Serum it's 5000 euros for DE (3000 i think for DD) and I believe some of clinics are cheaper than that if you go for DD or embryo adoption,. The £ is good against the € at the moment abd no waiting list or egg sharing needed 

Fififi -I'm guessing from your message above that you're close to Nottingham too?

debs - I feel your pain - izzie is on ABs for a chest infection after a cough and cold. I have it now and feel pretty rotten


----------



## LellyLupin

First thing in the morning I am on it Jules, can't wait any longer.  I think he will take me as this is the guy who was gobsmacked by my results fertility wise, just my eggs were crap, he said I should be able to carry a baby easily.  We'll see huh I take no-ones word for anything anymore after the hope I once had    

Sorry to hear your little girl is poorly too must be going around.

I will look into other clinics if my guy won't take me I am thinking of using Debs clinic in Sheffield. xx


----------



## fififi

Hope you got a positive response Lesley from your consultant.
Care prices in Nottingham were pretty similar to the ones at my clinic so you should be looking at around £6000 with ICSI if you end up at UK clinic.
Meds much cheaper than OE cycle. When we compared the difference taking into account meds it was only about £500 more for DE. My meds this time were about £65 (DR injections for 4 weeks, HRT and lining thickening pessaries) I also need clexane injections and progesterone injections - these are pricy bit, but thankfully the NHS consultant I saw due to recurrent MC wanted me to have these should I ever fall pg and was willing to prescribe them for me this time. Previous cycles I just had progesterone pessaries which are about £20 for 3 weeks.


Cooljules - yep I'm about 30 mins from Nottingham, in Loughborough. Where are you?


Definitely agree with Lesley's plan of meeting up with our success bundles/toddlers in the future. Let's aim for autumn 2016 and hopefully Cooljules & Debs will be bringing several kids each


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## deblovescats

fiffi - I think that's a great idea! Would love us all to meet up. I feel that we've all been through so much together I couldn't have done it without the support. Wouldn't it be great if we were all bringing our kids! I do so want everyone to have the joy I have with James. Hope it's all going ok with you feefs,
Let's put 2016 in our diaries!
Deb


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## deblovescats

Lesley - CARE Sheffield - cost of DE was about £6,350- that was with shared donor, getting half eggs. I got 12, and ultimately got 4 to blast - one was James, have 3 more in freezer! I'm hoping that James being born is a good sign that I might get success with the others!
Deb


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## artist_mum

hi everyone

*lesley* good to see you on here.. and glad you are getting in the mood for making your baby! As for the puppy - I have a 4 month old from my dog's recent litter and i kept thinking 'why have i kept her, what i want is a baby' but you know now, already, i really love her and she makes us both smile so much so yes, definitely, you will love that little fellow - and I think, trust your DP's choice here. men are sometimes very good at doing something out of the blue by trusting their instinct that it's the right thing, go with it!! And best of luck with that consultant call. my mini update below..

*debs* sorry to hear J is poorly. peril of the winter months I guess. sending him get well wishes. And hope you are coping alright with it all. lots of love to you.

*cooljules* so you have a poorly baby too . Also sending lots of get wells to Izzie. Roll on the summer eh?! 

*fifi* good luck with this one. Everything crossed for you. And that's very interesting info on the cost of DE and OE re meds. We're starting to count costs again our side! Which clinic and all that&#8230; Anyway all the best and sending loads of baby dust your way.

*ella* hi, i wondered if I can ask which Spanish clinic you are using? We went to eugin and are possibly going to go back to Spain, not yet decided.

hi also to *grey* and *rosie*. Hope your journeys are progressing..

AFM Had tried to give up after last bfn. Tried for 3 months to lose hope. Could not! So i've spent some money and time checking out my uterus state after being told in Greece it was scarred with Asherman's Syndrome. £1000 and 3 months later, i just got the all clear this week - so happy! Just got to work out where to go and work out our finances. We're going again!

love to all, Artist-mum aka Roxy! xx


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## LellyLupin

Hey Roxy    So glad you haven't given up I didn't think you would if I am honest, I do so hope you get your dream.   Thanks for the puppy comments, I know I will love Max as hes already started to win me over as he is always with me, even now he is asleep in the crook of my elbow.  He is so affectionate and just revels in attention.  Glad to hear you have a new pup too so I am not alone in needle teeth and puddles on the carpet  

So annoyed with my consultant, I texted him again at 8 this morning and he still hasn't replied, surely that is unprofessional even if the answer is no.   I have spent an couple of hours researching other clinics, and I have emailed CARE in Sheffield as I think that's the closest clinic to me.  Can't believe he won't answer me though it takes a minute to do !!!


----------



## LellyLupin

We must have nurturing natures Ella, at the moment I have Max, two budgies and a rescue hedgehog, I lost the horse last year  

I am going to ring my consultant tomorrow as he still hasn't replied.

How much is DEIVF in Alicante?  I will need to have ICSI too as I am in this predicament because DP had a vasectomy before I met him and he didn't tell me.  He now has antibodies, ICSI puts about another 1k on the price as far as I can see.

XX


----------



## Coolish

*Lesley* - glad you texted him, shame he's not responded yet. Also good that you are looking at other clinics. Hopefully you feel more empowered by taking things forward.

*Roxy* - I saw you post on one of the other threads (can't remember which one?). Great news you have the all clear. Good luck with deciding on which clinic.

*Fififi* - I'm about 30 mins away from you 

*Ellaa* - I've cycled in Alicante before (different clinic) and flights and hotels were really easy.

*Debs* - hope little J is better soon. It's awful when they are ill. When DD is ill I just keep reminding myself that she's building up her immune system (and mine).

I'm still dithering about what to do now. I was naughty and didn't follow Penny's protocol for getting AF to turn up on time, so AF is still absent without leave. My theory being that it would give me more thinking time... well I'm still undecided.


----------



## Coolish

Hey Ellaa - thanks for taking the time to respond.  My issue is we had FET in November with our remaining embryos from successful cycle with the result of gorgeous DD. The cut off point for ivf in Greece is 50 and I was 50 in December. Penny has said, although not to the letter of the law, she wants me to have a sibling for DD and would treat me in January. We'll have to go for a fresh again, with all the usual stress and cost. Part of me still can't believe I was finally lucky enough to have DD and I want to enjoy our time together and not get lost on the rollercoaster. Sorry, I really don't want that to upset people xx


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## LellyLupin

Thanks for the message Ella much appreciated    Well I will have to go to another clinic as my consultant finally texted me back and told me they don't do donor eggs there, he suggested I went to the Czech Republic !  

Jules I can see why you are undecided, the whole cycle sucks you into a whirlwind doesn't it.  As well as being bloody expensive   Don't ever feel like you are upsetting anyone re DD.  you worked hard to get that baby you deserve her and none of us would begrudge you your joy xx

Ella yes I miss Toby (the horse) very much I haven't rode since and its been nearly a year. I will get back into it one day I am sure.

`


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## deblovescats

Lesley - some of the UK clinics seem to work in conjunction with clinics abroad for donor eggs. When I went to a consultation at Leeds a few years ago to discuss options, the consultant recommended DE and to try in Cyprus - they had links with a clinic - although at the time I was 43! Quite a few UK clinics do DE - so look into that. I know CARE do. LWC do as well.
Deb


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## LellyLupin

Hi girls    I have been given these costs by a clinic in Darlington, do they look about average to you?  Any advice would be appreciated.  xx



New Patient Consultation:                                                £150.00 (Payable over the telephone at the time of booking the appointment)

Semen Analysis:                                                                  FREE

Pre Treatment Blood Tests (Female):                              £218.00

Pre Treatment Blood Tests (Male):                                  £88.40

Mock HRT Cycle:                                                                  £450.00 (If recommended by the Consultant)

Medication:                                                                          £300.00 (For a standard medication package) *

Egg Recipient Treatment Cycle:                                        £5,350.00

ICSI:                                                                                      £850.00 (Only payable if recommended by the Embryologist)

Blastocyst Embryo Transfer:                                            £450.00 (Only payable if recommended by the Embryologist)

Embryo Freezing (If applicable):                                      £250.00 (Only payable if there are embryos suitable for freezing)

HFEA Fee:                                                                              £75.00

Total:                                                                                      £8,181.40

I am a bit confused about the Blastocyst Embryo Transfer isn't that the same as putting your eggs back in?


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## LellyLupin

Another question I meant to ask.   If you do get some embryos to freeze,  does it cost you all over again to have them defrosted and put back in or is it cheaper?  Just wondering


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## fififi

Lesley most of those prices pretty similar to my clinic

http://www.nurture.ac.uk/costs/treatment-fees

Do some research on success rates with DE via HFEA website as there's quite a difference in ones I looked at.
http://guide.hfea.gov.uk/guide/AdvancedSearch.aspx

Other cost you haven't mentioned is the donor registtration fee. Most clinics charge a one off fee to go on their donor register. At my clinic this is £450.

Blood tests are valid for 2 years so you may not need to repeat? Also most GPs will do the required tests for free. Ask clinic if you can get them done with your GP & then a list of what you need. My GP won't assist in anything but even he let us have the bloods done!

I'd ask how likely it is you need mock HRT cycle. Not heard of that one.

Medication cost seems very high. A standard cycle with DR drugs, HRT and progesterone should only cost around £100 bought from Asda/Sainsburys pharmacy. Ask if you're able to be given a private prescription to buy the meds with yourself.

The cost for the day 5 / blastocyst transfer is normal. You pay extra to cover the costs for the extra 2/3 days your embryos are needing to be looked after! On the positive side the success rates with a blast transfer increases your odds from around 30% to 50%.

Another thing I'd recommend is finding clinic that uses embryo glue. It has been shown to improve implantation in over 35s.
http://www.nurture.ac.uk/news/embryoglue-improves-pregnancy-rates-by-19

Sorry to see your own clinic don't offer donor eggs as it means you've yet more choices to make. But, perhaps a change of clinic will help your positivity.
For me I changed clinic 4 years ago as my previous one had much lower success rates. With my job it would have been pretty hard to go abroad as can only have holidays as set time of year so that option was out. I then researched success rates at clinics within 45 min drive from me and from that short list went to the regional section on FF to see what others were saying about the clinics.
Hope you find the right place for you soon and will be posting with BFP news before the year is out   

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites readers are reminded thatFertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## deblovescats

Lesley - does the cost of the clinic in Darlington give you exclusive donor as otherwise the total cost seems higher than I paid and mine also included donor sperm. I think the total at CARE Sheffield came to about £6,350 or so, though that was last year. My donor was doing egg share so not exclusive donor. At CARE I think the £8,000 cost would be with exclusive donor. Just check that out. Fiffi's right about the blastocyst transfer - the £450 is about the same - you get it refunded if the embryo doesn't go to blast. If it does, it gives you a better chance of a positive outcome as the blasts tend to implant better. James was the result of a blastocyst transfer. If you have any spare embryos frozen, it works out cheaper to have them implanted than another fresh cycle. It usually costs around £1,100 or so for a FET. I'm planning on having a try with my 3 frosties. 
When we catch up, if it's the same clinic in Darlington that I went to before CARE, I can tell you my experience.
Deb


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## LellyLupin

Thanks girls I will certainly look into all of your suggestions, much appreciated.   Deb its the London Womens Clinic in Darlington xx


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## LellyLupin

Got my date to see the consultant 6th Feb so why am I suddenly full of doubts?    Terrified I reject a baby cos its not mine genetically but know I won't and I am being ridiculous.   Does/did anyone else going for DE feel this way at times?


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## deblovescats

Lesley - I think we've all been there with the doubts you have. I know I wondered if I was doing the right thing - I worried that I wouldn't know what the baby would look like, that it would look totally unlike me .... I even felt like I had an alien in my stomach very briefly! I managed to dismiss these fears and concentrated on looking forward to having a baby! As we were matched with colouring etc, I was sure that there would be similarities. I found it even harder as I was doing DD - so had no idea what the father would look like either. As my baby grew in me, I felt an attachment. Then when he was born, all I felt was love for my baby - he is so beautiful! Everyone says so and it's amazing the number of people who think he looks like me! I don't even think about the DE now. I'll be able to discuss this with you when we meet up - I'll message you! 
Good luck with appointment. 
I'm sure jules will agree with me! Just concentrate on getting your baby!
Deb


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## LellyLupin

At least if I am lucky enough to fall the baby won't inherit my migraines (hopefully) and horrible feet


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## Coolish

Lesley - I've just posted something similar on the over 50s board and I've posted something similar on here before, so sorry if people have read it all before... 

Once you get pregnant you won't be expecting a 'DE baby', you'll be expecting YOUR BABY  With DE, it's you that the embies implant into and you that grows and nurtures the baby. I'm guessing that you've already read up on epigenetics, so you know the effect that your body has on that growing embie? 

I take the view that 2 concert pianists could have a sporty football mad child that looks nothing like them - I'm pretty different to my parents and my sister and lots of ways. There's also the whole nurture/nature debate too. I only asked Penny for similar height and colouring to me and OH - I didn't want to know any more as I feel it's more like a blood donation. You are giving that cell life.

I felt an attachment as soon as those embies were transferred. You're willing those embies to implant and when they do, that's it, you're in for the long haul  

DD was born looking like a mini OH - which I kind of expected. She's now looking more like herself. Some people have said she's looking more and more like me, but I think babes pick up more of their mother's mannorisms and facial expressions so look more and more like them. When I went to baby groups, hardly any children looked like their mothers. Babies are little individuals. 

DD has a lot of 'me' as well - she's very stubborn about things and has a daft sense of humour - I finally have someone who thinks I am a comedy genius! She loves books (which I do) and likes to see how things work (like both me and OH). She is laid back most of the time like OH but loves being the centre of attention (erm, I think that's me). She loves music and singing and dancing - did she get that from me or is it just something that we do that she has worked out that she really, really likes? She's a little individual and is very sociable and loves people. 

Not long now until your consultation - are you all set with your questions etc?


----------



## daisyg

Hi Lesley,

Hope you don't mind me adding to this thread!  I have 8 year old donor conceived twins via embryo donation in Spain.  I was 46 when they were born.  I know from experience that it is completely normal to have all kinds of feelings when we move to DE.

What I found really helpful was counselling I had in my UK clinic which helped me look at my feelings about giving up my own eggs and the implications of having a DE child, especially regarding telling etc.

I did end up going to Spain because the law hadn't changed in the UK regarding anonymity, and it was my 7th cycle.  I also have a close family affinity with Spain. I would like more information on my children's donors and so would they.  They may want to meet the donor (they may not), and this would be possible in the UK but not in Europe.  Of course, I don't know yet whether this will be important to them.  I just think researching all the options is a good thing so when you choose your clinic, you feel confident it is the right choice for you.

These are real and difficult issues which are daunting and sometimes confusing.  I wouldn't change my children for the world and love them more than life, but I think it is helpful to have support while going through the thinking process.

I think it is slightly different for me as I am a single mum, so no dad is pretty obvious!  My children are beautiful of course!  I have a blonde brown-eyed girl, and a dark haired, dark eyed boy - both have lovely olive skin.  They don't look like me (brunette/blue eyes), but it doesn't matter!  We are a family and also nurture plays a big part in their development.

The Donor Conception Network has other people who have been where you are now to talk to, with members who have stayed in the UK and who have gone abroad for DE as well.

Best of luck,

Daisy xxxx


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## Lilly83

I can see there's been some great support on this thread and useful links posted but for those undecided on whether to tell it is worth pointing out that DCN are very 'pro telling', should that be the route you choose to go down they do have some great  resources and tools to help, but it's not a site for those that aren't telling 

L x


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## daisyg

Hi Lilly and Ellaa,

I am really sorry Ellaa that you feel upset.  In my experience, DCN is available for anyone thinking about donor conception (or already with DC children) even if they feel they don't want to tell now or ever.  They can help discuss the issues, and people are free to decide for themselves what is best for them.  It is a resource for support, but I don't think they are hostile to those who are not telling?

Of course they do advocate telling, but I can tell you as a parent who is tell, it is still something to grapple with and is not always straightforward and people can feel differently during different stages.  

Anyway, best to you.

D xxx


----------



## Sushi Lover

Hi ladies,

Sorry, I've been missing for some weeks as had a few problems with one of my twins. The smaller one has a growth restriction, so they are talking about delivery 6 weeks early at 34 weeks.... that will be in 2 weeks time! A scary time, but hoping Titch will catch up once born and fed properly... the greedy twin is stealing all the food at mom as it's placenta and umbilical cord is working more efficiently. The neonatal/special care unit looked great, but I felt really emotional. I'll keep you all in touch.
*
Fififi*... how is your donor cycle coming on?

*Lesley*... good luck for your appt! Everyone has doubts in the beginning. But I can categorically say these babies growing inside of me are all mine now. I don't even think about DE. I've fed them, provided nutrients, blood, oxygen... without me they wouldn't exist!

*Debs*... Is James a bit better now?

*Jules*... what's the latest with you hun? Do you still have some frosties to use?

*Artist*.... will PM... sorry I haven't had time to do anything these past 4 weeks with the worry of my diddy twin.

Sorry to hear there have been some upsets regarding DCN and telling/not telling. It's a very emotive subject that can cause a lot of upset if two people are on different sides of the fence.

xxx


----------



## Lilly83

I do think DCN serve a good purpose and it's good to weigh up both sides before deciding, it does show what great support is available to 'tellers' and it may help people feel re-assured that that's the right decision for them. It's a personal decision like you say and I wouldn't think many would be swayed by looking on the one site but yes it's good to know its a pro telling site.

Anyway lets not let this thread become another telling/not telling thread I don't want Maggie after me for bringing donor debate onto here  

If anyone is undecided on the issue bob over to the telling/not telling threads on the Donor conception boards where both sides are discussed seperately 

L x


----------



## Coolish

*Sushi *- I saw your posting on the other thread and have been waiting for an update from you! A mummy in 2 weeks - fab  Titch will soon pick up once born and he isn't having to compete with 'greedy twin'... exciting times - get your bag packed, do some things while you have the chance that will be very different once they arrive (go for a nice quiet meal, the cinema, shopping), oh and catch up on sleep  I don't think I really believed people when they gave me this advice!

Thanks *Lilly* - I do think it's gone a bit off topic with the whole telling/not telling bit - there are some good threads on here for that information. Like most people I did research from lots of places and people, including those threads on here


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## Lilly83

Thanks both 

I'm actually too young to be gate crashing this thread anyway ha ha  

Although my ovaries say otherwise  

L xx


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## fififi

Sushi - can't believe the twins might be delivered in two weeks time and that you're 32 weeks already! Feel for you getting news of growth restrictions but am sure once born both babies will feed and grow well. All very scary but getting to 32 weeks is brilliant and having spent most of my pregnancy with DD all set for neo-natal ward know you'll be well looked after. It's amazing how quickly small babies grow.
Like Jules says try and enjoy "normal everyday things" whilst still can - even gra,being drink & cake in cafe & just sitting enjoying it whilst warm. I think it wasn't until DD was about 6 months old I ever got to drink my coffee/tea hot!
Exciting times coming fast. Guessing you've been pretty scared last few weeks so will be crossing fingers & toes for you. Doubt I'm any use but if you want to chat about anything do send pm.

Lesley - hope your appointment goes well and you're able to make right choice for you. Am so pleased youre back with us. I've good feeling   

Debs - hope you & James ok.

Jules - your description of your little girl makes her sound even more adorable than her photo. Though a lot of character there!

AFM - had DR scan yesterday and all good. Started HRT today - progynova and then very bizarre pessaries called "vagifem" . This pessary comes on a thin stick that looks like a pea shooter and when in you press button to fire it in! Very weird feeling I can tell you!!! 😄😄 (been given to try & maximise womb lining)
Hoping my lining gets nice and thick so that there's optimal hotel conditions this time round. Clinic expect donor's EC to be around 11 Feb. So any spare finger & toe crossing, wishes or prayers very welcome.

AFM -


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## LellyLupin

Gosh lots of debate going on here.

Jules, Daisy and Sushi thank you so much for your insight, I know I am just being silly. I think things like the programme that was on last night  (The Vikings are coming) where I hear that a 45 year old got pregnant with donor sperm, her own eggs and got twins to boot,  make me question whether I should try again with my own eggs.  However I know I am just being silly, I am nearly 48 my eggs start off really well and peter out.  I have had 5 eggs put back in me over two ivf cycles that have all failed.  My sensible self says wake up Lesley and get real, my silly self thinks just maybe.    I loved your descriptions of your DE babies and how you feel, I know I will love a DE baby as much as an OE baby as you all do.  I also think  it will be fascinating to see if a DE will pick up my traits like Jules baby has hers and how they will look.  I don't look anything like my siblings, in fact all four of us look nothing alike, my sisters are blue eyed blondes and I am a bit spanishy looking.  I love the mix you got Daisy thank you for taking the time to chip in for me    Jules loved your description of Izzy and whats shes picked up from you, shes sounds so precious x


Sushi I am sure your twins will both be fine, I can't believe they are nearly here, take Jules advice and have some me time cos I am sure you won't get any once the girls are here    So very happy that you have achieved your dream at last    Good luck for the birth xx

Feefs I have everything crossed for you even my eyes    I would love for you to be next to get your family I so want you to be fulfilled.  

On the would I tell the baby they were DE I am unsure, I think I wouldn't but then I question that decision.  Its an individual thing I think every DE mother must struggle with.

Debs looking forward to seeing you soon xx


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## cornwall

Hi Ladies,
My little girl is 6 months old now. Can't believe how quickly the time has gone. We decided not to tell anyone that she is DE. She looks just like hubby but people say she has my eyes and my facial expressions. She looks a bit like my son did at that age too. We are now considering trying for a sibling.
So pleased to read the good news with babies born, babies due any day and cycles progressing well. Sending lots of positive vibes to everyone.


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## LellyLupin

Great to hear from you Cornwall can't believe your girl is six months already, so lovely that so many veterans of this thread are becoming mothers at last.    After all the tears and stresses its so nice to read about happiness,  even if I never get my own wish for a family.  I don't think I will tell my baby if I have one that they are DE, I  just have a worry that if it came out some how that they would want to trace the donor and I would be devastated.  I think I would be incredibly jealous


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## fififi

Cornwall - 6 months already, where has that time gone?!!
Hope life aside from your lovely DD is going well too. Echo Lesley's comment on how good it is to real other's happy updates. Many of us have been in touch for quite a few years now so it is a definite help to know that things can work out.
Keep in touch & let us know when you're trying for number 2. Hoping he/she will be coming along to our get together in 2016   

Lesley - be prepared to change your mind continually re whether to tell or not, in UK you have to have counselling prior to donor cycle & I left that convinced we would tell. Then once started first cycle changed my mind. At present I'm back to being undecided! In reality until you get that baby you won't really know and even then you can take your time.
I read one lady who tried out telling by speaking to her baby about it. Obviously baby was only few months old so couldn't understand. She said by saying the words out loud she was able to judge how she really felt.


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## deblovescats

cornwall - it's amazing how quickly time flies - my darling son is also 6 months old - we're now trying to introduce solids but he's much rather stick to the breast! He's still teething (nothing through) and has a nasty cough. He seems better from his cold, jules, but has had a cough for months, so GP has given him an inhaler! Hopefully it resolves soon. 
Lesley - I'm unsure of whether to tell or not, I keep changing my mind, at the moment it's irrelevant as he obviously doesn't know! 
I'm looking forward to our meeting in 2016 - putting it in the diary - hopefully others on here will have their wish for a child, and some of us might have a sibling to bring along as well.
Deb


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## LellyLupin

I know this sounds strange Debs,  but I think my family would treat a DE baby differently if they knew it wasn't related by genes.  The reason I say this is my brother has a stepson and my Mum definitely treats him differently to her biological grandchild, not consciously but I can see the difference.  On that same subject my brother hasn't told his biological son that his other son is only a half brother which is another story.  His stepson calls him Dad and does not wish his brother to know he is only his half brother.  Families are complicated whether DE or not I guess.


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## deblovescats

Lesley - I know how you feel. That concerns me as well. I haven't told anyone - not even close family. My cousin has 2 adopted daughters as they were unable to have kids naturally, and although they love them to bits ( despite problems!) my mother is always saying that they're not genetically related. I just never found the opportunity to tell her - I was hoping to do so when my son was born  as he'd be loved then. Now it concerns me as she keeps saying about James being genetically related! How do I now broach it. I'd probably just leave it alone, but to complicate matters, my sister who's 45, is obsessed with having her own baby (she's single too!) It's causing friction beween us as she's jealous of me (although she loves her nephew to bits). She'd obsessed with having genetic baby, dead against DE. I've tried to gently hint at the odds being against her. She got GP to refer her to same clinic I went to, and she was upset by letter from clinic which stated that odds at 45 are only about 1%. They say that they generally do not do OE over 44. She keeps saying to me about being lucky with having James and about me going against what the clinic did. However, I took the clinic advice and went with DE. She wants a conversation about it. This causes me anxiety about what to say and whether to include mum in the conversation! Nightmare scenario! It takes some of the shine off things, and I'm annoyed about this, as I don't personally have an issue about DE - to me it's a few cells, and I've nurtured him. She's also upset that I am planning on going for no 2 - and that she might not get a baby, and I might get 2! 
I still don't know how I'd have done it differently!
I don't regret going DE - I love James unconditionally!
Deb
PS My cousin is now a grandfather to their adopted daughter's son this Jan - and he just considers him to be his grandson even though there's no genetic link!


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## LellyLupin

Oh Deb!  What a situation to be in.   Personally unless you could trust her 110% I wouldn't say a word.  If you are not telling James or anyone else and you tell her,  you would always have that cold sweat feeling that it could come out if you and your sister fell out,  or she let slip by accident.  Plus it does look like your Mum may change how she felt and you wouldn't want James to feel that.  DP and I had this conversation last night and he doesn't want to tell anyone especially the child.  He says why turn his or her life upside down when there is no need, but I know its not that simple.  I always like to tell the truth so it will be hard for me to keep that inside, gosh its such a hard subject.  How awful for both you and your sister as she must be looking at you thinking you defied all the odds,  and jealousy is a horrible emotion.  Wow this is a hard one to call I really feel for you


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## fififi

Debs - what nightmare for you. So frustrating as you had intended to tell but life took you down different path. If it was just your mum to consider I'd say keep stum. But this pressure from your sister is hard.
My plan at minute if we get fortunate is to let people know about the majority of events ie. IVF but not say anything about specifically about donor. Equally we don't want to lie so will simply be missing certain details out. On my last DE cycle quite a few people knew we were having tx so I was just a bit vague with details. When asked about eggs I told them how many I'd got (they were now mine after all) in response to question from my sister about when I'd had them collected I answered by saying "egg collection was on Tuesday" - this way I was never actually lying but simply not giving full story.
I wonder if you'd be able to do similar thing with your sister? Though thinking about it in a face to face situation it'll be hard if she asks you something like "did you not get told to have donor eggs."
One thing I am certain of is that if we were ever to tell anyone then I would be sure our son/daughter knew too. I think problems come when the child themself discovers via someone else their background.
In general if your sister is friendly - rather than her current jealous state - would you be able to ask her not to say anything in front of your mum? It would also be good if you were able to talk to your sister about fact even with DE there's no 100% chance and she may well be trying a while.

Sorry, I seemed to have waffled on & probably confused you more than ever. Thinking of you & hoping you reach a decision that works for you   


AFM - hoping my lining getting thick as now been on HRT nearly a week. Have lining scan on Friday so fingers & toes crossed that brings good news. (After that can start worrying about how my donor is doing!!!  )
Been little concerned at weekend as have had really bad pains around my right ovary. Similar to ones I get at ovulation but even stronger. Just hoping my endo not playing up and/or there's any cysts to worry about.


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## Sushi Lover

Just a quickie ladies...

Admitted to hospital yesterday with high blood pressure/pre-eclampsia and breathlessness. Doppler scan showed abnormal umbilical blood flow to twin 1 (smaller one) ... Hence growth restriction. C-section tomorrow morning. I'll be 33 weeks exactly. In a total panic! Wish me luck xxx


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## Lilly83

Sushi 

Good luck! 

Hope all goes well 

L xx


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## deblovescats

Oh, Sushi - what a scary situation! I'm sure everything will be ok, even if sooner than you'd hoped! I had elective C-section due to placenta praevia, and it was fine, though not what I would have planned. But main thing is baby was fine. Good luck!
fiffi - good luck! 
Thanks Lesley and fiffi for your advice. It's a tricky one. Generally my sister and I get on pretty well, but since I got pregnant, it's been difficult at times. She's got depression so GP has put her on antidepressants and she's waiting for CBT - it seems to be an obsession at the moment. She's had others in the past! I think the jury is out on this one at the moment! I think partly she doesn't realise what's involved and what the odds are. she doesn't want to face the truth either. It made it quite hard for me when I was pregnant, and I feel quite upset at times that it cast a pall over me enjoying my pregnancy which I'd so dreamed of.
Deb


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## Maggiephatcat

Good luck, Sushi   I had preeclampsia. My little boy was delivered by emergency c section at 32+ 5 weighing in at 4lbs 9ozs. He spent 30 days in special care and came home 23 days before his due date. He's now a strapping 2 year old  


Maggie xxx


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## fififi

Sushi - thoughts truly with you. Sounds like you're in bad way and must be so concerned. Hope physical feelings not too bad and emotionally you're coping okay. Delivery a little sooner than planned but you're in a good hospital and 33 weeks not uncommon with twins. Sending lots & lots of virtual hugs. Will be crossing fingers, toes & even legs that all is okay with the three of you


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## Greyhoundgal

Sushi dearest just read your update   All the very best for tomorrow - I will be thinking of you DH and babies   You'll be in good hands and 33 weeks is good date for twins I believe. Lots of love and hugs   Soon you'll be a mummy    

Grey xxx


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## Altai

Good luck sushi , fx all goes well for you all.



A.


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## fififi

Sushi - extra hugs for today - thoughts with you & DP/DH xxxxxx


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## Coolish

*Sushi* - just replied to you on the other thread - good luck xx

*Debs* - it's a really tricky situation. A lot of people really don't understand DE - especially older people. Your sister is at a stage in her journey where OE seems like her only option and goal and hasn't even considered what DE might give her. I really don't have any good advice. I haven't told my parents (they don't even know we had IVF) as they are quite old and wouldn't understand it. We did tell OH's parents when we were going to Greece, but I don't think they really understood the concept. A couple of friends know, but most don't. Most people dont ask questions as they don't know the questions to ask, but a bit like fififi, I'm loose with answers... I don't know your sister, but is she someone who needs to do research herself, needs the odds/stats, needs to move quickly/react before thinking, needs time to think? I would just try and enable her to get her head straight in her own way, before telling.


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## artist_mum

*sushi* all my thoughts are with you and I really hope everything has gone well today. Much love xx

*debs* Really tough situation with your sister and mum. That's hard. If i were you I would focus on yourself and James (I"m sure you are!) and try not to let their fears/situations affect what you feel is right for you and him. I don't really know what else to say except sending you a big virtual hug and hope things become clear for you. Take care of YOURSELF in all this. that's the important thing. Sibling relationships are not always easy but your sister has her own chances in life and needs to take them independently - and let you get on with yours. 

*cornwall* nice to see you on here! Good luck with the sibling decision

*fififi* Hope the lining is just exactly right by friday - and all goes well from thereon. Not far off now x

hi cooljules, altai, greyhound, lesley and others reading

Only came on here to wish *sushi* all the luck in the world. 
but as I'm' here.. AFM still bl**dy deciding on which clinic/immune doctor to go to! I have a GIANT spreadsheet with every conceivable (!) option and now praying for wisdom on the right way for us.

Artist_Mum xx


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## LellyLupin

Sushi hope everything went well and you are now a very happy foursome instead of a twosome, please let us know when you can so we can celebrate with you     

Debs the only other thing I would add to you situation is in all this the most important people are you and James,  and as Artist said your sister has to make her own way.  I also have a jealous sister who has now not spoken to me for 4 years (she thinks I have an easy life, if only she knew  ), so I know that siblings can not always be trusted especially where jealousy is concerned,  and can really hurt you with their perceived ideas.  Its a big shame shes taken the shine off for you so try not to let her xx

Artist you made me laugh with your spreadsheet    Feefs hope all is going well for you.  Hello to everyone on here.

AFM spent the evening filling in paperwork for the new clinic and re-reading the reports from my last one, Quite interesting to read about my two ivf attempts and how my eggs although abundant peter out after a couple of days.  I did have one blastocyst which they wouldn't freeze on its own,  which I am miffed about now as maybe that could have been the one.    Ah well onwards and upwards as they say.  DP is flapping about having to produce a sample in the clinic on Friday, wish that was all we had to worry about, its very strange that finally he is supporting me after I have felt very alone in all this from the start.  

Debs you never did tell me about your experiences of a Darlington clinic, is it the one I am going to?  I am a bit worried


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## deblovescats

Hi guys
Thanks so much for your support. Lesley - I'll pm you about clinic.
Thanks artist, Lesley and jules for your advice. I do appreciate it. I find the thread so supportive. I concur that elderly people don't understand DE - I think they don't really understand about IVF either. Everyone else has just assumed that James is OE, as DE hasn't crossed anyone's mind and I'm happy with that. They don't need to know - all they need to know is that James is mine and he's precious. I am trying to focus on me and James and to stop worrying about other people. Even though we're adults, I've always found myself looking out for my sister and I take on board, I need to let her take responsibility for her own life. She needs to make her own decision. She is expecting me to tell her everything about tx - rather than her doing research. She does have a fixation about OE and I think she needs to find out the facts and work through it. I'm trying to just enjoy having my miracle baby. 
Hope you and the babies are doing well sushi.
Deb


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## fififi

Sushi - still thinking of you and anxiously awaiting an update. Wishing so hard that you post happy news soon


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## Sushi Lover

Our twins have arrived!! 7 weeks early, but breathing unaided and taking small amounts of expressed milk/collostrum through a syringe.

Our son was first out (2lbs and 11oz), followed by our daughter (3lb 9oz). Names to follow!

I still can't believe they are here!! How lucky we are.

Xx


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## fififi

Sushi am absolutely yo made up for you. Wonderful news! Enjoy being a double mummy. How amazing they are taking expressed milk too 
👣👣👣👣👣👣👣👶👶👶👶👶👶


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## LellyLupin

Sushi no more   for you,  you now get                 and a huge   Huge congratualtions Kirsty .  And one of each too, I thought you were having two girls      We will of course be expecting a photo x  Congratulations to you both you so deserve your little family xxxx


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## fififi

Now we can un cross fingers for Sushi am requesting a few for myself as feeling quite nervous about lining scan tomorrow & getting news on my donor (her scan was yesterday I think).
Not told anyone aside from people on FF I'm currently cycling. Previous cycles always told a few people & parents. Not sure why haven't but guess I'm wary of it not working out and being as it's our last go having to confess to failure. Being as your my only sharing friends I'm going to have to rely on you to help me progress.
Sushi your joyous news was well timed if you ask me as I certainly need reminding of the fact this cycle could be a good one.

Hope all good with everyone else


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## Altai

Sushi- congratulations!!! Wonderful news! All done- one of each.

Fifif- good luck with scan and donor, fx for the successful result.


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## artist_mum

sushi… brought a tear to my eye!  so happy for you.  and one of each too, how lovely.  Lots of love to you all and hope the next few weeks see them getting bigger and bigger!  Great news xxx

Fififi - hope your scan has given good results.  everything crossed for you   

xx


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## LellyLupin

Feefs sending you lots of                 I am sure all will be fine, I hope you are next babe I really do, I would like to see all the veterans of this thread pregnant to give hope to any newbies.  So happy for Sushi, Jules, Debs etc it gives me a warm glow to know after all the heartache that they are holding their babies, you will be next I just know it the odds should now be in your favour xx

AFM I had my consultation today, very interesting not so good news however.  I have a 6 cm mass on my left ovary so I now have to see a Gynacologist for a second opinion and maybe have a laroscopy and an operation to either remove the mass or clip my tube    I really wasn't expecting that as all my scans have been clear in the past.  I did know I had a blocked tube but now he is saying its inflamed and it could cause a miscarriage if I did get pregnant,  as the tube will leak fluid into my womb.  Honestly I feel like its one step forward and two back, is this really meant to be for me    Once this is done he will have me for treatment (assuming its not cancer) he does think  its just a cyst though.  I have to decide if I want fresh eggs or frozen from the London Egg Bank  ( I will get 6 eggs).    I was a little confused by him but he thinks if everything is ok I have a 50% chance of a baby.  It will be expensive though £8,100 altogether.  He said I need the mock HRT which I still don't understand so I need to do some research.  Hope everyone is ok I don't know what I would do without you guys to offload to xx

DP is bleating on cos he had to give a sample and he was embarrassed- my heart bleeds for him


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## fififi

Lesley - glad you feel like some progress made but obviously the mass is bit worrying. Is the clinic connected to NHS one so you can be directly referred for laproscropy if need be? You could see your GP & do "choose & book" to get gynae appointment with recommended someone rather than any old surgeon.
Cost seems a lot. Might be worth paying out £300 for consultation elsewhere to get second opinion and offer of different protocol.
Hope you are not worrying too much & can progress properly soon     


Thanks for good wishes from people.
I had lining scan & was thinner than they'd wanted so am back for rescan on Tues. really hoping there's an improvement as need something to boost my confidence that this has chance of working.
My donor having scan tomorrow & looks like EC will be Mon or Tues. Her progress last week not quite as good as they'd hoped but fingers crossed her scan tomorrow will show better sized follicles. Nurse who called me today was quite vague with update so that's set me worrying even further!
Am shattered as not slept well. Planning on early night & hoping that tomorrow's news will be more positive.


Sushi - hope blue & pink doing ok xxxx


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## deblovescats

Amazing congrats sushi! You so deserve it. Welcome to the little ones!
Fiffi - hope the lining improves. Good luck with cycle. I know how you feel about not telling anyone. I didn't tell anyone I was actually having the ET till I got pregnancy results!
Lesley - I echo about seeing if you can see a gynaecologist on NHS - good to get a 2nd opinion as well. I think the cost sounds a lot as well - might be worth checking out other options before you commit!
I'll catch up with you and we can chat - maybe in next couple of weeks!
Deb


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## LellyLupin

Hi girls  

Debs/Feefs I will be going to a NHS gyno, just waiting for the letter to come through.  Just want to get on with it now  

Quick question to the DE ladies, how many eggs did you opt for putting in,  one egg or two?  Is there a risk (or joy) to putting one egg in and getting twins?  I really want two eggs but I am a bit worried if they are likely to split and I get triplets or quads        :


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## fififi

Lesley - I'll go halves with you on quads    
Now will put my sensible hat back on 👒👒👒
Last DE cycle had 2 put back mainly cos only one was good enough quality to freeze and only one other was at stage should have been. Made sense to transfer best one & didn't want to waste the other. Sadly was BFN. Again this time we've said that depending on grades to have option to transfer one or two. My clinic's limit is two even with OE. Apart from one all my cycles have had 2 good grade blasts transferred on recommendation from my clinic so I'm not especially concerned about there being anymore than two were we to get lucky. You shouldn't need to decide until transfer & at that point your consultant & embryologist should provide guidance.


AFM - all a bit nervous as to what's happening with both me & donor
Her scan today still showed fewer follicles than initially expected but since those that are there are good size EC will be on Tuesday. Now just hoping they are good quality & DH's sperm is in good shape too! So that combined with my lining being bit on thin side left me even more anxious than normal. Think I'm feeling extra nervous as know this is to be our last cycle and unlike other times if this fails it really is the end of the road. Going to try and dig out some positivity from somewhere and attempt to continue normal life whilst tightly crossing fingers, toes & legs!!!!


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## LellyLupin

Done Feefs.  

I had 3 put back in on my last OE cycle.  I am still smarting that I got a blastocyst and because there was only one they wouldn't freeze it.  DE wise I am going to go for two and if I get twins then I will have achieved my family in one  go.

Hope everything goes well for you Fifi, the pressure must be really on with it being your last go, this will be mine too  , I need to get on with my life at some point and this process is always on my mind.  Life seems to be on hold doesn't it.    My clinic have said that if I go for fresh eggs and she doesn't produce enough,  I will then have to pay £750 for a new donor, that doesn't seem very fair to me.  What does your clinic say about such things, if your donor doesn't produce what you need do you get another go?  I am keeping everything crossed for you for Tuesday I really am, try and keep positive chick xx


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## deblovescats

Lesley - I would be concerned about this paying £750 for new donor - I didn't get told that when I went to LWC. With CARE, if not enough eggs to share, you would be matched again or get all the eggs and the other wait for another donor, without paying again.
With ref. to ET - I think you are strongly encouraged in the UK to only have one put back if it is good quality i.e blast. I had thought about having 2 put back and would be fine with twins, but as I got blasts, they wanted to do single embryo transfer, and that thankfully resulted in James. I have 3 frosties (all blasts) and am wondering whether to ask for 2 to be put back or to have 3 separate attempts if 1st one doesnt' work.
Good luck Lesley.
Deb


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## fififi

Debs - hadn't realised you'd got 3 frosties from blasts. That's great position to be in. Though obviously now dilemma as to how best use them. Did you have exclusive donor as that's fantastic results?

Lesley - paying £750 for replacement donor sounds very odd to me. Plus I would be expecting a donor to have been selected because the clinic had every confidence she would produce enough good quality eggs. It should be the rare exception there's not enough eggs.
My clinic says there needs to be 8 eggs to share. No option for exclusive donor that I'm aware of. Whenever I've raised concerns about egg numbers they've said its very rare that not 8 or more. Two possible options:
egg sharing donor - she gets half & option of what to do if odd number so long as 8 or more. If less than 8 she can donate all of them or she gets them all & I'd pay for my scans in theory.
Altruistic donor & 2 recipients - eggs split 50/50 if 8 or more, if less than 8 recipient number 1 gets them all, recipient 2 gets rematched & as far as I'm aware gets free cycle. When matched you're told which recipient you are.


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## Coolish

Lesley - I don't know about egg share as I've always gone for exclusive, but this is how it's worked for me at 2 clinics (Spain and Serum). You get matched with a donor and if they don't respond well, there are always back up donors cycling and they will try and match you with a back up donor, with no extra cost. It happened to me on a cycle in Spain. The donor wasn't responding well so they contacted me after her scan and asked if I wanted to go for a back up donor as they had a good match cycing but a bit behind the previous one. I just had to take meds for a few extra days until back up caught up - no extra charge. With exclusive, it's always been with proven donors, young age, and always been about 4 blasts to freeze. We don't have any sperm issues so always get very good blasts. 

Regarding numbers to put back... in Spain I'd always had 2 transferred apart from one time when 2 blasts didn't defrost well and they had to defrost the other 2 so had 2 good quality ones and a dodgy 3rd one transferred. At Serum Penny said that I needed 3 not 2, which I was a bit dubious about, but she said with my background 3 would be better. Well 2 implanted and I lost one at 5-6 weeks and the other one is my DD  Two embies could indeed end up being twins but I believe the odd of the embies splitting to be twins are pretty low - someone posted up about it a little while ago?

Just for cost comparisons with my previous cycles (exclusive donor), In Spain it was 7500 euros (euros not pounds) for the fresh cycle (1000 euros to freeze the blasts) and about 1500 euros for FET. For the second fresh cycle in Spain they gave me a discount and it was 5000 euros. In Serum it was 5000 euros for the cycle and about 1000 euros to freeze the blasts but that included the FET (so no extra costs for my FET). Obviously meds are on top and costs will really depend on whether you are having clexane and intralipids. Also no costs for 'registering for DE' which seems to be the norm in the UK? Flights and hotel on top, but we treated all of our trips as mini breaks in the sunshine - Alicante and Athens are lovely places to visit.

Fififi - good luck for Tuesday x


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## LellyLupin

Thanks girls I am having some doubts about LWC  , I need to ask some probing questions with regards to costs as I feel I am being ripped off.  I thought it was strange that if the donor doesn't produce I would have to pay again, it would not be my fault if she didn't produce.  I am going to email the consultant with my questions and see what he says.  I can't afford to be paying for things I don't have to


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## Coolish

Lesley - a while ago I saw a really good list on here of questions to ask when going for a DE consultation.  It might be worth searching or asking the question again.  I seem to remember there were a lot of good questions. It's certainly worth investigating some other clinics and emailing them for information. I did that ages ago when I was looking and got quite a lot of info from some. I did an email and phone consult with Serum without a charge. The clinic I went to in Spain gave me a lotof info via email and charged £150 for consultation. I'm not sure what other clinics may charge, but a couple of hundred spent at this stage could really be worth it, when you are spending several 1000s... plus if you've already had some tests at LWC then ask for the results and you can use themat any clinic.


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## deblovescats

Lesley - let's arrange a catch up - and we can chat about LWC! At CARE you don't have to pay a fee if donor does not produce enough eggs. If fewer than 8 eggs produced, another donor found without charge. CARE does an option of exclusive donor - more expensive. Other options are shared donor with two recipients, and if not enough eggs, one recipient gets them all, and the other is at top of waiting list. Other - egg sharer - who is also going through treatment. That is what I did this time and I got 12 eggs - so I was pleased. All fertilized and four proceeded to progress to blast stage. One became DS and other 3 were perfect for freezing so very happy about this. 
The cost of DE cycle was £6,350, but that included donor sperm. Having FET is about £1200. So at least having the frosties takes some of the pressure of needing another fresh cycle - hopefully one will take! 
Take time to look into other clinics Lesley.
Deb


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## fififi

Lesley - try a few other places
Just remembered a lady I met through here at my clinic had DE cycle where no eggs collected despite high follicle number at scan. She was rematched free of charge & given an exclusive donor rather than egg share to be doubly certain of plenty of eggs on next cycle. Clinic were very apologetic and quite surprised by what had happened. Certainly weren't telling her to pay them money!!!
See if anywhere has an open evening you can go to. That way you can talk bit to staff & get feel for place & costings free of charge.

My DE cycle with additional payment for blastocyst transfer & embryo glue comes in under £6000. I'll post exact cost later. Am hopefully going to use their primo vision (embryo video camera) if get enough embies which is about £500 more. Consultant said it may be beneficial to embryos as they get handled less. As its last go we're throwing everything that might help at this cycle. (Just hoping my lining plays ball & it isn't me stopping implantation.)


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## artist_mum

yet more info for you *lesley*! Just wanted to mention CARE Northampton. I spoke with CARE in my search for our solution to all this and they have a long wait for donor egg at their London clinic but I rang round some of the other CARE clinics and found that Northampton does not have any wait at the moment. They also have surprisingly high success rates compared with others (and abroad) of 67.4% for donor pregnancies (this is not Live birth which would be around 8-10% less - but is still very high). They are lovely to talk to on the phone (01604 601606) and gave me the following numbers:
£455 registration
£180 consult
£105 pre tx scan
£105 semen
2 hours with Nurse FOC and counselling session FOC.
£5425 shared/altruistic donor or £8455 for exclusive.
(you need to add £1080 for ICSI and £385 for blastocyst)

We are still very tempted because even if it is a long drive it is less stressy/expensive for us than going in and out of london and that really is a very good success rate. I know this can be cos they have lots of same sex/younger recipients but even so, it's high and no wait for a donor. You can call and ask them the questions you have - i got answers without needing a consult (my guess is that they have lots of donors ready and really want patients!)

Having said this, it is still so much more than going abroad - for example Gennet in Prague (an easy and cheap flight) 68% success rates and £4063k. They also tend to have younger donors which sounds mercenary but there appears to be a correlation. How about a nice week's holiday in Prague&#8230;?!

One other thing to mention, which is also a 'holiday' trip is Dogus in Cyprus who have 80% success rates which is the same as in USA. You can do a trip there as a holiday (a week or so during which they give you a mobile phone, pick you up from hotel, do transfer, then back to the sun lounger!). The big difference of course is anonymous/untraceable donors in Europe versus UK. Just thought I'd mention it.

Hope that helps rather than confuses. I was just thinking of you as we try to make the same decision - one that works! Also wanted to say please don't let the last consult 'setback' get you down. I had that last year at Serum and it made me think i ought to give up, now I have the all clear again I'm glad i pushed to get it sorted.. it just needs working through. Don't give up on your dream.

*fififi* That does sound good value where you are - and less stress than going abroad that's for sure. Can you say which clinic is it? I hope you're managing to keep anxiety low this weekend, tough I know, and keep your hopes high  Everything crossed for tuesday.

xx


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## fififi

Just a quick visit to request finger crossing, prayers & any other luck bringing efforts. Tomorrow morning DH doing his bit (came down with bad cold yesterday so that's not good at all. Currently sleeping in guest room in hope I don't get it!) then mid morning our donor has EC.
Feeling very nervous.


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## Greyhoundgal

Fififi - everything crossed for you hun  

Artist - what a fantastic share on your research for de cycles   I'm sure lots of ladies will appreciate that  

Lesley - I don't know anything about de except what I read on the threads here. Successes do seem higherfor us over 40s and o guess that makes sense if your donor is younger. Would you consider going abroad? I know for OE, I found it surprisingly unstressful and I believe with de you only need to be out for a few days? Fancy a trip to Spain (as per Jules' first clinic)  or Cyprus, Greece or Prague??   so much info to take in but at least there isn't so much need to rush with de and you can take your time to choose. Hope you're enjoying your little dog now too  

Jules - how are you, what are your plans?  

AFM - off to athens for my second serum hysteroscopy on Thursday. Hopefully they will tell me all is ok post ERPC....And then get some advice re when to go for an FET. Hopefully March   But if they say to wait then I guess we'll do that   I'm definitely very run down....two chest infections and a stinking cold since the miscarriage....and that's despite a healthy life   We shall see...

Grey xx


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## Coolish

*Fififi* - everything is crossed xx

*Greyhound* - hope the second hysto goes well and your FET plans are all go, go, go!

Just to say that DE is kind of less stressful as you do only need quick trips abroad if you want to rather than do a holiday style trip, e.g. for Greece we swent out for consult and left a sperm sample (2 day trip) and then when back for ET (2 day trip) as we didn't need to be there for EC as we'd left the sperm sample. In Spain he clinic was in Alicante and there were flights pretty much every day from our local airport. The flight to Alicante was quicker than going to say, London.

*Artist* - have you settle on a clinic yet? Have you got a gut feel with any of them?

AFM - thanks for asking greyhound... I still don't know. I really to switch from how lovely it is to be able to do lots of things with DD and we'll be able to spoil her with pony rides if that's what she wants, and then how nice it would be for her to grow up with a sibling. I think I might have messed my AF up a bit - it was MIA for 2 months and then was hardly there at all last week. Also, I think the benefits of a hysto last about 6 months? I had mine in October, so April is pretty much the 6 months. Penny did mention she could 'freshen it up' with a wash etc and that means going out 5 days before ET, which then means a week away. I don't want yet another hysto. The cost and the stress worry me and I think I'm on a real downer about it aftet the FET BFN and feel pretty convinced I would just be wasting time, energy and money but going for a fresh cycle again. The mojo has gone! Oh, and I still haven't discussed any of this with OH and he keeps talking about going on holiday and visiting friends in Spain. We can't do it all...


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## artist_mum

*fififi* sending you good luck vibes this morning. Go for it girl!

*greyhound* i'd forgotten you were a Serum lady right now.. hope that all goes well on Thursday and the baby room is looking all ready and welcoming for your FET. It's good to get going again, I wish you loads of luck with it.

*cooljules* To be honest I'm really struggling with the decision. One minute I think Bulgaria, the next I think stick to UK as it is the last time I can do it (under 50), then I think Prague seems to have a lot of success and Zita West use one there etc. Then I think we should do immunes as I"m sure that's a problem for me.. kerching kerching!! I keep thinking it will become clear if I don't worry too much. So I continue to pray until I know which way to go. We are also waiting for money so can't pay out for things just yet anyway - so I guess that's my timeline. I completely understand your dilemma. I too was not sure about keeping on with the hystos. And where you have your LO to consider too I imagine that must really make you think. I know you read the over 50s board - there is so much to reassure you on there that you can wait for that mojo to return.. it's perhaps not such a rush as we think. (I realise that might cut out Serum if you wait too long, but there are others if that happened I suppose). I'm guessing that the last cycle was a big disappointment after being successful before so perhaps it is just taking a little longer to get your head around it all - and perhaps you body is echoing that a bit? Good luck with the process, it's not easy huh!

xx


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## fififi

Thank you for good luck vibes for this morning. My lining now over 8mm so can relax on that front. DH sperm met parameters for standard IVF so that was good news.
Just had phone call to say that my donor got 14 eggs which were shared so I now have 7 eggs sitting in a dish waiting for DH sperm to do its thing!!! Feeling little disappointed as this is lower than previous cycle and initial expectations by clinic for our extremely young donor (just 19). Trying to reassure myself that quality will be the true measure rather than quantity. Though right now am so full of nerves not sure I'm capable of thinking anything.
Embryologist expects about 80% to be mature, with average fertilisation rate around 60%. So now got long day & night ahead with much wishing & finger crossing in hope that at least 4 make it to become embies


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## LellyLupin

Thanks for all your notes and figures girls  , they are all a lot cheaper than LWC at £8,100.  I am going to get my 'mass' sorted out and then have a look at Care in Sheffield I think.  I am not looking to go abroad at the moment, I just wish there were more clinics a bit closer as I find it hard to get time off work.  I just feel a bit suspicious of LWC because  of this Mock HRT thing and the £750 if the donor doesn't produce.  Why would I need a mock HRT cycle if I have two IVFs with no problems with my lining before, before I just don't understand it.  Have any ladies on here had to do it?  

Had the worst day today, had a huge bust up at work and then my friends mums funeral, and then AF feeling very     and sorry for myself today.  

Feefs 7 eggs is pretty good isn't it?  As your donor is only 19 I am sure her eggs will be top notch, you will get such strong babies from them I am sure.  Oh what I would give to be 19 again, I would be having babies everywhere, I would have to live in a shoe xxx

Artist I am with you on the stress of the decision making, sometimes my head feels like its going to explode with options and questions and stresses .  I am not too down about the 'mass',  I just didn't expect it and get so mad at my aging body sometimes,  and that there always seems to be a bloody obstacle in the way!  I know you have been through the mill  and are stressed with all the decisions of abroad or not etc so sending you a huge big  

Grey hope everything goes well for your FET xxx I am not considering abroad at the moment, I am tempted but its finding the time to go,  both DP and I have such busy jobs getting hols is a nightmare.  On the subject of Max I have some good fun days with him,  and some days when I could happily give him away    He is such an affectionate little dog,  a real soft sweetheart but he is a terrible thief and when he is in frenzy mode he is almost uncontrollable.  He does make me laugh though so I am definitely falling in love with him (on his good boy days) that is x 

Jules/Grey what is a hysto?  What does it do?  What does penny mean by a wash? .  20 questions - sorry  Jules I think having your BFN will have affected your mojo, its so demoralising and probably the thought of going through it all again has worn you out.  I hate all the decision making why can't we just have what we want as easily as others seem to get it grrrrr!!!

Anyway going off for a sulk now and to give myself a kick up the   to see if I can get rid og my grumpy mood.  Night my lovely FF friends don't know what I would do without you xx


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## fififi

Lesley - most clinics won't need mock cycle if you've ivf history. When you choose new clinic you can just give them copy of your previous notes. I think my old clinic charged £30 admin fee to copy relevant stuff.
Advantage of DE cycle is much less physical time at clinic needed. I had one scan about 2 weeks after starting DR to check body was DR. Then should just have needed one lining scan on day 10 of HRT to check that. As mine was bit too thin had to repeat few days later this time. My clinic scans at 7:30am so just teeny bit late for work & DH not required. For EC only DH/DP need go in - ours was 7:30 this morning so DH was away by 8:30. Final visit is ET - which we'll both go to though if your DP is struggling with time off and you don't mind he could in theory miss.
I had hysto (hysteroscopy) this time - on day I started DR. It was instead of endo scratch to enhance lining structure as it "repairs" itself following any cuts, and also to check uterus clear of polyps. Mine was done by my consultant who also works for NHS.

Artist Mum - you are doing well putting all your thoughts together and making decision when confident its best one you can.
I'm at Nurture in Nottingham. They move to new premises in few weeks - just off junction 25 of M1 so easy to access from lots of England. I've been pleased with level of care and knowledge of consultants. They've good stats for quite few age groups too. They are research based so lead consultants very up to date on new techniques/ideas and if you want you get chance to be in various studies.

Apologies for not commenting on others posts - will read back tomorrow once head stopped spinning with nerves.
Hugs to all xxxx


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## Greyhoundgal

Fififi-7 eggs   that's fantastic!! Fingers crossed for fab strong embies   I'm sure they will be  

Lesley - a hysto is a hysteroscopy. But the Greek ones are a notch above our UK ones. They go in, cut away any old tissue and make deep implantation cuts. In the UK they do endo scratch but it really isn't the same. The surgeon at serum said if money were no option he would recommend all ladies to have one. The scratching of the lining is supposed to refresh it and that new material is supposed to be more receptive to implantation and the cuts are also supposed to help too. It is expensive at Eur 1500 but I take the view that at my age I don't want to look back and think "what if".  Glad you're enjoying Max more.....our younger one is 3 now but he still has "naughty hour" where he marauds around the house looking for trouble and finding things in bins   his favourite thing at the moment is mining my ear plugs out of the bin or from the bedside table   Little toad.....but I do love him to pieces.

Jules - I'm not surprised you're feeling a bit low and also conflicted over what's best to do   How long before you have to make a decision for serum treatment? It's a tough one to call although I love my sisters to bits and wouldn't be without them.....but my only child friends seem perfectly happy not to have siblings   you and DH will make the right decision for your family, whatever that turns out to be   And maybe you need to have a little hol  

Grey xxx


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## artist_mum

thanks *fififi* will check it out. Hope the embies are growing stronger and stronger as I type! Best of luck x


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## Maggiephatcat

Hi Ladies   


As we're now over 100 pages I'm going to create "Fabulous 40's: What to do after a BFN - Support and Chat Part 3" 


I'll then be locking part 2 down.


Please continue to post here until I share the link to the new thread, I've got a few threads that require 'house keeping' so it my take a while   


Maggie xxx


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## fififi

All gone badly wrong!
Call today was to tell us that the donor's eggs were not good and only 2 out of whole batch suitable for fertilisation. Those 2 allocated to me have thankfully fertilised and clinic planning day 2 transfer tomorrow so long as normal development seen until then. I am so sad that this could have happened when we thought we'd struck gold with such a young donor. Feel in huge daze and weak all over. Been at work today so not even had chance to cry/let feelings out.
My consultant called this afternoon in person to chat & say how gutted they all are for us. He is hoping that tomorrow goes ahead & despite the issues we're faced with today he hopes it leads to BFP. To reassure us further he has said that if we don't get BFP we will be put back at top of waiting list and not be charged for follow up cycle. I'm very grateful that both he and the clinic have offered this at this stage with no prompting from us as it takes a big pressure off being as this was to be our final attempt.

So ladies - I've yet another stressful night ahead & there's chance that this time tomorrow I'll be PUPO. Going to sleep with fingers, legs & toes crossed as get feeling this may well be our bumpiest cycle yet. (Oh, and it's my birthday Friday so will need positive head back on for then. Not sure quite what to do now as not planned anything as had assumed transfer would have been Sunday.)


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## LellyLupin

Aw Feefs try not to be down you've got two fertilised eggs there that could be your babies,  I know you are disappointed but you may not need more than these two.  Sending you a big    and lots of        Try and rest so you are refreshed for being PUPO, this could be your time and the clinic has kindly given you another go so the pressure is off if it doesn't work out.  It will work this time so you can join the others in being a fab mum xx

Grey thanks for the explanation it wasn't what I thought, I thought it was a hysterosalopingogram (very painful).  As for Max he  just walked in with my sunglasses in his mouth, I took them off him and a minute later he came in with the rimblock from out of the toilet,  chased him around the house to get it back and he has appeared with a teabag from somewhere!    He keeps me on my toes


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## deblovescats

fiffi - gutted for you, but as Lesley says, you only need the 2! I think it's sometimes a shock that even when we go for DE it can still be a problem, you assume a young donor will produce lots. At least your clinic are going to honour a further cycle for nothing if necessary, but hopefully this won't be.
Lesley  - I would echo your thoughts about LWC - can't believe they want to charge you £750 for a rematch! Also, I didn't get advised to have mock cycle - it seems just to be money making. Obviously for ladies who go to serum, they would recommend a hysto, but they seem to advise it for all ladies, regardless of situation. I asked my UK clinic if necessary, and they said not, but would review the need if I got a BFN. It seems to be an added expense which might not be necessary. 
I realise I've been lucky with my donor - she's 34 and I got my DS and have 3 frosties to try again with.
Good luck to everyone cycling.
Deb
PS Fingers crossed for you fiffi!


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## LellyLupin

There is just something about the consultant there Debs, I remember I went there before I went to James Cook and I had the exact same feeling about him, which was why I didn't go with him the first two times.    DP says just pay the money,  but as I am a Buyer for a living I can't stand being ripped off.  If I had had lining problems before I could understand the mock cycle but it was perfect.  I felt like he was pushing me down the London Egg Bank Route and trying to put me off the egg share option.  I wouldn't mind this but there aren't many donors on it that match me,  only two in fact who have dark hair, dark eyes and medium skin, which is not a lot of choice.  I would get 6 eggs which isn't very many in the grand scheme of things.


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## Maggiephatcat

Here's the link to your new part 3, ladies.

Love and baby dust to you all



http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=332759.new#new

Maggie xxx


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