# Sticky  Telling the child and other people, Chat/Support thread



## DizziSquirrel

*This is a support thread for those people 
who plan to tell any child concieved that a donor was used

Anyone who is undecided may dip into both the telling and not telling threads 
to get both sides, or ask questions.

Any posts belittling or disputing the choices others have made will be removed. 
~Dizzi~ *​


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## purplejr

Hi.
  
  I'm looking at the issue from a slightly different angle. I did 2 rounds of egg  share. Don't know if either recipient got pg or how many eggs they got. I sort  of askd when I called the clinic to inform them of Megan's birth and they said  someone would call me but they never did.
  
  My tell or not is whether to tell Megan that she may have siblings out there.  It's unlikely we will have more children unless another miracle happens.
  
  What are your thoughts on this.
  
  Joy xx


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## ceci.bee

Thanks Dizzi this is a really good idea to have the two support threads without lists - and will continue to browse both I think as appreciate hearing all views about this difficult and sensitive topic  

love Ceci


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## pinkbabe

just bookmarking x


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Thanks Dizzi   

  Ju


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## mojitomummy

thanks dizzi. - missed the link to this new thread though until i tried to reply

Interesting thought joy - i guess if you are talking about IVF it can be an extention of that. I guess my view is to be as honest and open as possible with your own children so that would support telling her.  Was it covered in any counselling you had? I wanted to be an egg donor but wasn't allowed but hadn't thought about that aspect just that fact that our baby would have been from donor sperm. interesting.


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## emmaboo73

bookmarking


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## purplejr

Hi Becky - to be honest the counselling we had for the egg share was pretty naff and basically a paper exercise to say they had done it. They told us to look at the donor conception network but it doesn't cover that aspect really, more if you are using donor eggs or sperm.

Joy xx


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

There is some information about children being more fascinated about their half siblings than the donor. There is a donor sibling register I believe.

If you don't tell and then they want to get married in the future, however minute the possibility, there is always a chance that they could meet and want to marry a sibling if they do not know. It has been known to happen rarely in the past - genetic attraction.

If you become worried that the possibility, then you might be tempted to tell at that stage and then it could cause trouble. 

My personal feeling is that honesty is always the best policy at an early stage, then no one can say you kept a secret or lied and it is never a shock at a sensitive moment.


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## juju81

Sorry, was trying to post "just bookmarking", wouldn't let me post anymore  

Mini  , was expecting the finger to pop up


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## DizziSquirrel

Ju I deleted your other post  and was going to say post again but you have lol
Thanks everyone, Happy Chatting


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Ju - don't know what you are on about!       

purple - I'm pretty sure they tell you if there was a BFP??


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## purplejr

Mini - We were told we had to request the info.


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## olivia m

Hi Joy
Yours is an interesting question.  Whilst I would completely agree with Hazel that honesty is the best policy, the Government in it's wisdom did not think carefully enough about the needs and interests of children within the family of a donor, when they came to laying down provisions in the HFE Act for availability of information.  Donor conceived children, conceived in the UK post April 2005 have the right to have information about their donor from age 18 and at that age ANY person conceived at a licensed clinic with donated gametes after August 1991 can go on a register to have contact with half siblings.  However, the children in the family of a donor have no rights to have their names on any register in order to be in touch with their half-sibs nor can DC children be in touch with them.
Of course the possibility of contact between half sibs will be there if/when DC young adults make contact with their donor post 18 (in our experience likely to be older than that if they were told early).  This is just one of the good reasons for donors to share information with their children about their part in creating other families sooner rather than later.  I hope you feel you can do this with pride Joy.  You certainly have done something very special indeed and you are entitled to know the outcome of your donation.  If you can't get this information from your clinic you can get it from the HFEA.

Just like to confirm what Hazel said.  Our experience at DC Network is that donor conceived people are often much more interested in half-sibs than in their donor.  Those told early are never looking for a parent and it's not surprising that they have more interest in others around the same age as them who are likely to share some interests and are in the same, or similar, position to them.
Olivia


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## daisyg

Just bookmarking!


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## suitcase of dreams

just bookmarking too


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## Bloofuss

Thanks Dizzy for this Thread.

I have minimal info from my donor and I know that she has 3 children which will be half siblings to my boy - just too much to take in just now - where I have chosen when the time is right to tell my boy it is still a lot to think about regarding the lives of 3 other possible half siblings but only thru genes and if the donor has told them

Any thoughts appreciated

Bloo x


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## LiziBee

Mostly book marking, but on the issue of the number of siblings I found this article very interesting
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/sep/19/sperm-donors-shortage-market-forces

Olivia - does this mean some of our children _may_ have 'unrecorded' siblings? (Though the inference from the article seems to be that there may actually be less siblings than many of us suspect). Does HFEA not keep a central record of this? (Assuming HFEA is still around that is, and if they are abolished as the government plans who will hold the records?)

Thanks
Lizi.x

/links


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## olivia m

Hi Lizi
This is an interesting article from Liza Mundy whose book Everything Conceivable is well worth reading.  It may well be that in very recent years, because of supreme vigilance by HFEA over number of families created via each donor, that some children have very few donor siblings.  What is unknown, and cannot be known until contact is made post 18, is how many half-sibs a child might have in the family of the donor.
In the early years of the HFEA, when there was much poorer record keeping, quite often more than ten families were created.  I know one sixteen year old who has 18 half-sibs and I'm sure she is not unique.  All parents of donor conceived children (post 1991) can find out from the HFEA how many half-sibs their children have, their gender and years of birth.

What happens to the Registry if and when the HFEA is broken up is one of the big questions that DC Network is very keen to keep tabs on.  I am personally unclear that the HFEA will finally come under the hammer.  As you may have seen from recent press reports, some parts of the Government are realising that the functions performed by some arms length bodies (such as the HFEA) will cost them more to break-up and realign than keeping them together.  There was never any question of the FUNCTIONS of the HFEA being abolished, just a question mark hanging over whether it needed a specialist body to perform these functions.  We shall see.
Olivia


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## Spaykay

bookmarking


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## bunnygirl2000

Hi there

I haven't posted here before but I have been loitering for a while and would be interested in your opinions on my perspective.  

I donated eggs a few months ago; the eggs were shared between 2 recipients (both anon) one of whom is now pregnant.  I can find out next year if a live birth (or births I guess it could be twins) results.  The only people who know that I have donated are my husband and one of my close friends who were both very supportive of my decision.  I have not told my parents or siblings because I felt that I wanted to tell my own children first but they are very young (pre-school age).  At the moment I feel not telling is the right thing but when should I tell my children and the rest of my family?  

I was really interested to hear that donor-conceived children are more interested in finding out about half siblings.  It does make sense when I think about it.


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

It was a lovely thing that you did - bringing happiness to otherwise infertile couples. I am so grateful to our sperm donor and I have lots of friends who are desperate for donor eggs.
We need more people like you in the world.  

There are many books that are written for children. I am not sure if there are any books specifically for the biological children of an egg or sperm donor.

The donor conception network print books for children of all ages and you might find some ways of telling the story well from those. I am not sure that children would really even begin to understand until the age of 5 or 6. It might be when the questions around ''where did I come from'' start.


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## Bloofuss

Hiya

Only me again after a bit of advice - I was a second recipient when it came to donor eggs and am unsure if 1st recipient was successful as if she was that then would be another half sibling to my boy (so hard to take all this in).  Are they obligated to tell him this when he is of an age??

Thanks
Bloo x


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## olivia m

Hi Bloofuss
The half-sib stuff is a bit mind-blowing, particularly when your child is very young and connections seem very far away.  As far as I understand it, there is no obligation by anyone to tell a child that they have half-sibs, but any young person from the age of 18 can ask about numbers, gender and years of birth of half-sibs (YOU can get this information now) and register to be in contact by mutual consent.  This will be in addition to being able to have identifiable information about the donor from this age too.  Remember that neither you nor your child can get information about children in the family of the donor.  This may only happen as a result of a post-18 link-up with the donor.

In order for any of this information not to come as a shock, I think it is helpful for a child to have grown up knowing that these possibilities exist.  Not that emphasis has to be placed on them - that would be out of proportion - and you probably wouldn't start talking about half-sibs until a child really understood fully about donor conception generally (between age 7 and 10) - but just to bring the possibility into conversation at around that age and see where a child takes it.  My own children did not really think about half-sibs until our daughter was asked about them by a journalist at age 14.  She thinks the possibility is really cool, but because she was conceived in 1986 her chances of connection are very slim.
Best
Olivia


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

olivia - can you tell me which book i need for using a sperm donor to read to our monster,  I've looked but can't see it. can you put a link up. I've looked on amazon and it looks like its £25??!! and from USA??


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## olivia m

Hi Mini
The book you need is My Story for children conceived by sperm donation (into heterosexual couple families). The Bookshop page on our web site does not seem to have a different link to the site in general so go to www.dcnetwork.org click on Bookshop and then scroll down to the story books for young children. The cost is £8.50 plus £2.50 P+P
Happy reading!
Olivia

/links


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

thanks olivia!


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

just ordered it!   

I love pay pal!


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## olivia m

Hi Pink Cat
The My Story and Our Story books do not mention IVF and to be honest that's a topic that can be added/addressed once a child is a bit older. These story books are really intended as a very first stage for young children, introducing them to the idea that sometimes mummies and daddies need some help to make a baby and a nice lady and/or a nice man were able to help. How the sperm or the egg gets inside mummy can be explained later once the child is a bit older and starts asking questions. There is a good book/CD rom called My Beginnings; A very special story by Tim Appleton that can be made into different versions and includes IVF. Have a look at the Children's book section of our Library page on web site www.dcnetwork.org for info on how to get hold of this and other books for children.
I'm personally not so keen on the XY and Me books by Janet Grimes because of the use of animals rather than human beings, but they do cover a very wide range of scenarios.
Olivia

/links


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## Bloofuss

Thanks Olivia for the information - how would we go about finding out information regarding the 1st recipient as no one at the clinic was forthcoming with this information at the start of treatment etc. So I just presumed we were not privi to this?? I did request info on  our donor and was given this (my special lady wrote some lovely words)

Thanks
Bloo x


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## olivia m

Hi Bloo
If the 1st recipient conceived and gave birth to a child you should be able to find out the gender and year of birth from the HFEA.  Emer O'Toole is the person responsible for Registry enquiries.  You will need to prove who you are by sending in your passport or other identifying document before they give you the information.
I'm so glad you have some lovely words from your donor.  Egg donors tend to be better at this than sperm donors.
Hope this helps.
Olivia


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## elinor

I am not sure if this is the right place to post, but I do plan to tell the child (as I am single I have to come up with some explanation for the lack of a father/ donor sperm part, so even if I were tempted to not 'come clean' about the donor eggs it seems foolish to tell a 'half-truth'). 
I have also been open with it to all my family/ friends who know I am having treatment, so it would feel deeply wrong to me to then not be open with the person most concerned (when they arrive, when they are of an age to take the info on board, etc).
I plan to get some books, and will be looking to see what the DCN library has/recommends for single women (or maybe just make my/our own).

My current issue is that I had a midwife appointment yesterday (2nd so far) and, as at the first, I said up front that I had had IVF with double donor - and specified egg and sperm. The first midwife had not recorded this, so the second didn't know till I told her again. Yesterday they were taking bloods to do testing for screening (down's etc), where age is a factor, so I mentioned it, and told the midwife the age of the donor (2. She was very reluctant to record this, and kept asking if I was sure I wanted this to go on my notes, where other people could see it. I said I was happy for it to go on my notes (the clinic mentioned something to me about donor egg conceptions having an increased risk of pre-eclampsia - not hugely increased, but if it can affect the pregnancy then it makes sense to let the midwives etc know) and she was still reluctant to record it - asking if I was sure I wanted anyone who had access to my notes to read this? So, my question is:
Are there genuine reasons I should be worried about recording it, or was it just a bit of an outdated attitude in one healthcare professional?
Should I have kept it 'secret' so when I tell my child (in future years) the information is 'theirs' to tell others about, not 'mine'?
Has anyone else come across this?

Hope this isn't completely the wrong place for this - happy for any thoughts/ideas or comments to be shared.
best wishes
Elinor xx


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## suitcase of dreams

Hi Elinor,

I'm in exactly the same position as you, and I also plan to tell the child the full truth - my family and close friends all know that this was double donation. With colleagues, neighbours and acquaintances I have simply said that this is a planned pregnancy, that I went to a clinic and had fertility treatment (from which I am sure they all realise it was donor sperm as I'm single, but I have not gone into the donor egg side with people I know less well - really not their business tbh)

I told my midwife everything at my first appointment and she recorded the basic information in my 'yellow book' (the notes I carry with me to all my appts) - ie. IVF pregnancy with sperm and egg donation. At my 12 week scan the sonographer read my notes, asked me for the age of the egg donor and I gave it to her. I am not sure if she recorded this somewhere - it's not in my yellow book, but I guess it will be at least somewhere on their computer system as it has been used to calculate the risk of Downs etc

I can't see why it would matter if this information was on your notes. To be honest it can surely only be a good thing that the various health professionals have access to the 'full' information so that they don't need to ask unnecessary questions/run unnecessary tests (eg re your family history etc).  It's not as if your child will have access to your medical notes, and you will in any case have told them the story of their conception anyway, so it won't come as a shock or a surprise even if they did

I can see your point about the information being your child's to tell, and that's why I have not told the full story to colleagues/acquaintances etc, only to close friends and family. The thing is, it's going to be quite a while before the child is old enough to make those choices for themselves (about who to tell etc) and in the meantime, as their parent, it's up to you to make those choices for them - and you can only do what you think is best

I'd be interested to hear if anyone else can think of reasons why this sort of information should not go on medical notes. 
I'm of the view that honesty/total disclosure is the best policy when it comes to medical issues so that it leaves no room for problems/misdiagnosis/confusion etc etc...but if there are reasons why it's not a good idea, would be good to know now so I can take action!

Suitcase
x


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## olivia m

Hi Elinor
I think you have come across a rather old fashioned member of the nursing profession as there seems no reason to me not to put information about donor conception on notes and particularly where egg donation is concerned as there are medical implications following this, particularly age of the donor for calculating risk of Downs etc.

Re books, making your own is nearly always a lovely idea.  Only thing to be beware of is making sure it is not too much YOUR story.  This is the story of how your child came into being, not the story of the trials and tribulations of your treatment process...but I am sure you would be aware of this anyway.

DCN is launching a brand new web site next month and on this will be the pages of a multi-faceted story book for children that can be personalised and then downloaded for many conception situations for single women and lesbians.  It certainly includes double and embryo donation, both in the UK and abroad.  Look out for it.
Olivia


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Elinor - congrats hun!    I also think its an old fashioned MW you used! On my booking in appt it had a question on the form whether i used any donor. I actually said no as i knew the MW through friends and didn't realy want her knowing, not that it made any difference with using DS. I think its more important with DE as yes it can lead to PRe - eclampsia sometimes, and they need to know to calculate the downs test. 

THe hospital and any other medical profession who read it will not be fazed by it at all as long as you and the baby are ok, plus it is so common now to use a donor. The only person i told throughout my pg was the lady who was collecting the cord blood that we donated. I just didn't think it was anybodys business.


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## LiziBee

OK, here's something to think about. I DID tell all the health professionals during my first pregnancy but NOT during my second. Why? Well as my cons for the TX was also looking after me during my pregnancy it seemed pretty silly not to be honest, but during my second PG the latest fertility law was going through parliment and there was a lot of talk about 'donor' being recorded on the birth certificates and I really didn't want that for my child so I kept completely quiet about it, to the best of my knowledge it is not recorded anywhere other than at HFEA and within the clinic. As it came about no one can make you record 'donor sperm' on your child's birth certificate if you don't want to so we would have been OK but at the time I wasn't prepared to take the risk. Anyway I don't think it changed anything about the way we were treated in either PG though obviously I don't have the donor eggs factor to consider.
Lizi.x


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## olivia m

Actually Lizi no-one can put information about a child being donor conceived on a birth certificate even if they want to as the motions to do this put forward during the review of the HFE Act were defeated.  However, the Department of Health DID say that they would be reviewing the policy on information on birth certificates within five years.  In this particular instance I think changes in Government and personnel within the Department, plus the climate of cuts in general will play to our advantage on this one.  What parents of donor conceived children put on the birth certificates of their children is not a priority at the moment.
Olivia


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Of course you never know how the law might change in the future.

There is a possibility that information recorded in notes today, might have different rules applied to it in the distant future and you can not guarantee that information would not be disclosed to your offspring or other relatives.

Even in the current laws if there were ever a case to answer about the child's delivery for instance - the child themselves can make a claim for damages for up to 21 years after their birth.

Normally medical negligence cases have to be taken up within 3 years, but in the case of obstetric complications, claims can be made 3 years after the child becomes an adult. There might be a need to see the notes in that case.

Just a thought.

This is why honesty is always the best policy in my opinion then there can never be problems with people finding out the hard way, or as in a case on the legal board right now, an ex husband threatening you with disclosing information to family out of spite.


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## olivia m

The Lords became very exercised about donor conceived children not being told about their origins.  The proposals to put information about DC on birth certificates came about as a result of this...the idea being that it would force parents' hands in being open with their children.  DCN has always maintained that it is better to raise awareness and educate parents about the benefits and importance of openness.  The Government of the day agreed with us and provided funding for DCN to run Preparation for DC Parenthood and Telling and Talking workshops. Not that we can reach everyone that way....
Olivia


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## Bloofuss

Hi ladies

Just popping on to say that I agree think your Midwife was a bit oldfashioned as I did tell mine as she was fine about it and congratulated me on the successful pregnancy.  Only reason I told was as someone said before due to the Downs test as I was 34 and donor was 35 so had to say "age" of egg if you like   

I have told a few close family and fiends of L conception and others i.e work colleagues etc that L was IVF but not told re Donor - I feel I would rather L know the truth first rather than everyone I know as it is his information to know.

I am so glad for this thread as L gets older it always goes thru youtr mind of HOW to tell and HOW will I cope.

Bloo x


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## Jayne

Bookmarking


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## Kerry Crabtree

Hi

part bookmarking and part letting you know of a poem i have written and self published on lulu

http://www.lulu.com/product/hardcover/a-most-precious-gift/4442263?productTrackingContext=search_results/search_shelf/center/1

it has lots of blank pages in which i intend to stick scan pictures photos etc to make it really personal for my child - if we are succesfull!

good luck to all on your journeys!

/links


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## leoaimee

just wondering - going back to the sibling thing - as our donor had no known fertility - i have assumed he doesnt have children in his own family - and therefore our daughter is the first from his sperm .... but might that not be right if he doesnt have to disclose info about his own children?

on the midwife notes thing, when i had my first chat with midwife they asked about genetic conditons on the 'father's' side - obviously i dont know - and was happy to put the full details of our donor conception on the notes.
the midwifes happily scrubbed out father and recorded my partner as mother in that part of the form.


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## olivia m

Hi leoaimee
Your donor may or may not have children already, but he also may go on to have children in the future.  None of them will be recorded on the HFEA register.
Olivia


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## leoaimee

so 'no proven fertility' just means no donor concieved children?


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## kerryflump

hi ladies, just wanted to say good luck to all still following your dream and congratulations to those lucky ladies who already made it.I have 1 son to ivf and am currently 23 wks pregnant to our daughter to be. I es last sept my cycle was negative but was indecated it was a good cycle for my recipiant so happy for them i sent them a card wishing them all the luck in the world and recieved a beatiful card back which i will always keep.I also donated on this last cycle to and i hope it worked for them as it did me, to be able to do this for people is an amazing feelingto know that you have given someone else the chance of feeling what i do about my special son and daughter to be is just heart melting and im so proud to be able to do this.as soon as my children are older to understand i will be telling them everything about how they concieved and what i did to help others and i also intend to find out if any child is born from my gift so i can tell them about there siblings.as for sperm donors with no fertility issues they could also be the partner of someone going through ivf and donating the sperm to reduce there costs i know they do this at my clinic in hull.


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

what a lovely story    Its so nice to hear the other side it. I wish i could write to our donor and tell him how grateful we are to him. Our boy is a dream come true, me DH love him so much, and i think hes a daddys boy


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## Spaykay

kerryflump - thank you for sharing that. ((()))

Kay xxx


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## olivia m

Hi Everyone
Thought you might like to read this commentary on Donor Conceived Individuals Right to Know...it's from the US

http://www.thehastingscenter.org/Bioethicsforum/Post.aspx?id=4811&blogid=140

Olivia

/links


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## Spaykay

Gosh - I thought that most people WOULD tell their children, don't know why I thought that.

Kay xxx


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## daisyg

Spaykay,

I have been a member of a US donor egg board for some years and it is very common for parents to be absolutely no tell (and to outnumber those in the tell camp from my anecdotal experience).  There is no equivalent organisation to the DCN in the States and there is very little support and information for those people doing DE in the US.  It really amazes me.  Of course there are many, many people in the tell camp as well and also access to publications about being a DE parent/child, but no nationwide access to groups of other DE parents or workshops to discuss telling.

I find it very interesting that we do seem to have more support in the UK in this regard.

Best
Daisy
xx


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## Bloofuss

Thank you Kerryflump for sharing that with us such lovely words - I also wrote an anon card to our Donor thanking her for what she made possible for us - so it is nice to hear that this is apprecaited and that donors are happy to share stories with their own siblings.  I sometimes feel that I gave up TOO soon on usimng my own eggs and went for the DE option but then I think if we hadn't gone down this route I wouldnt have my DS and he wouldnt be who he is today

Bloo x


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## LiziBee

daisyg said:


> I find it very interesting that we do seem to have more support in the UK in this regard.


I think we have a lot to thank Olivia, Walter and their friends for, without them I think the UK could well be in the same position.
Lizi.x


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## olivia m

Thank you.  I'm really touched. We just had a great two days at the Fertility Show with the DCN stand being inundated with people seeking support and guidance around donor conception.  It truly feels a privilege to try and help.
Olivia


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## Spaykay

Olivia - wish we had the same in SPain!

Kay xxx


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## *ALF*

Hi

Wondered if people could give me some feedback about using 'telling' books with children and which books they use.

J's understanding is very good and she loves books and picks up and remembers stories very well so I have been aware for a while now that I really ought to start reading her My Story book to her as she seems ready to start taking in the basics of her begininngs.
Anyway, I took the step yesterday. We read it 2 times at nap yesterday and 2 times at bedtime.  This morning I heard over the monitor her reading it to herslf 'mummy and daddy went to the hospital to see the doctor' 'we were very happy to hear this' 'the nurse put the sperm in mummy' at which point she got distracted by the something special theme tune on TV and stopped reading.  
Not sure how I feel about my 2.5 year old saying the word sperm   

TBH although I like the My Story book I think it'll be better for her when she's a few years older purely because it's written from her point of view, which I think will be good in a couple of years but at the moment I think I would rather a story written from our point of view - does that make sense. 
I've done some surfing and found the xyandme book Before you were born, which is written as though the parents are telling the story (it also introduces the word donor and uses the term cells instead of sperm/egg which I think I prefer for now).  Before I order it though just wondered if anyone else has it and what they think of it.  Or are there any other books available that are written as though the parents are telling the story? 
At the moment I'm adapting the My Story book as I read.

Any experiences of using either of these, or other, books would be great.

Thanks
ALF


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## mojitomummy

Alf,a god point. Zac is just 20 months and i've read it a couple of times but hes not repeating wordslike that yet so sorry i can't be more help. i would be interested in what other experiences people have had though as well. xx


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## Kerry Crabtree

hi

i have published a simple poem/ story book called a most precious gift on lulu.com

it has blank pages to stick photos and draw your own pics to make it personal but is hard backed or can be downloaded.

it refers to a gift of an egg in a very simple non specific way.

http://www.lulu.com/product/hardcover/a-most-precious-gift/4442263?productTrackingContext=search_results/search_shelf/center/4

please take a look any profit i make from selling the book is to go towards my treatment.

thanks

/links


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## Kerry Crabtree

oh its published in my maiden name kerry roling


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## LiziBee

Alf - I believe that DCN are about to launch an 'adaptable' copy of My Story on CDROM in the new year. (I'm sure Olivia can provide the details!) I'm just hoping it will work OK on my Mac!!
Lizi.x


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## olivia m

Hi everyone
The adaptable version of Our Story will be for single women/lesbians who often have a range of more complex donor and family situations than heterosexual couples.  It's not a CDRom, but a way of putting different pages together for different situations.  These can be downloaded as they are or made into a proper book via Lulu.  Hopefully, they will be available as soon as our new website goes live later this month.  However, I am pretty sure they include the word 'sperm' as well.
I know that some people are uncomfortable with this term, so you could substitute the word 'seed' for the time being if you like but you might just want to think what is so difficult about this word.  I'd be interested to know what others feel about this too.

Yes Lizi it should all work on your Mac..I have one of those too!
Olivia


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## *ALF*

Olivia - there is nothing difficult about the word sperm, I would just rather introduce the whole concept using the word cell for now and progress to the words sperm and egg in a few years.  My post wasn't supposed to relate to the ease or not of using these words, what I was trying to ask for was other peoples experiences of using the different 'telling' books that are available.

My comment about not being sure about how I feel about my 2.5 year old saying the word sperm was meant more as an acknowlegement that it is one of the many 'steps/differences' we have to accept as being part of the process of telling our donor child of their origins - sperm is not one of the usual words in a 2.5 yr olds vocabulary. 

I will leave it there but would still like to hear from others, particularly if they have used a book other than My Story.

ALF


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## Lirac

Hi Ladies,
New to this thread but jsut read Elinor's question re. telling professionals. I was totally upfront about having DE and my consultant thanked me for my honesty - he said that there is an increased chance of pre-eclampsia with donor eggs - not clear why but think it is to do with immune issues.

Anyway, I was monitored really closely and, at the first sign of pre-eclampsia, was admitted to hospital. Sadly deterioriated and ended up in ICU (long story - happy ending) and DS was born 8 weeks prem but doing brilliantly now. Have been advised if I do DE again, to try to have same donor as this reduces risk apparently, but donor is unwilling so may have to take a risk with another!

Just wanted to say that the pre-eclampsia risk is a real one - I think I wouldn't have been monitored so closely if I hadn't been older and specified DE - and anything that makes professionals take extra care of you has to be a good thing. 

Everyone we have met and who has taken care of us has had nothing but respect and admiration for the journey we have gone through - we even had the sister telling us of her experiences as a donor! All very cathartic and reinforced that honesty is the best policy. 

Sorry for crashing onto the thread!

Lirac


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## olivia m

ALF, I absolutely agree that there is no one way to go about telling children.  Everyone has to do what feels right for their family and that includes the language that is used.  American 'experts' tend to say that you should use proper terms for everything and always use the word 'ova' instead of 'egg' insisting that a child could become distressed through confusing eggs you have for breakfast with those used to help make a baby.  Also that womb or uterus should be referred to instead of 'mummy's tummy'.  As with the word 'sperm' none of these anatomical terms form part of a young child's vocabulary.  At DCN we support any language that parents feel comfortable with.  It is then natural to start using the correct terms as a child's understanding increases with age.

Lirac - So glad you had a good outcome to your story of pre-eclampsia....a very frightening condition.  Always good to hear when someone feels that honesty has not only NOT produced negative responses, but in fact provoked very positive support and care.
Olivia


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

lirac the risk of PE in DE is to do with the body trying to reject the Donor egg whch isn't biologically yours. I was told if you have  a few cycles with the same DE then your body will get used to it and then stop rejecting it. Yes agree, professinals should know about DE due to this risk and also to get the nuchal scan results.


----------



## Spaykay

ALF - maybe you don't need to go into so much detail about exactly 'how' conception took place, just that a 3rd person (special lady, egg donor etc) was needed to help mummy and daddy have a baby. I don't think any of us conceived convensionally were told exaclty how mummy and daddy got the baby in there. I haven't really got a plan as to how to let LO know but just talk when need be and hope she'll start to ask questions when she's ready. That question of how did I get in mummy's tummy always comes up, but little ones don't always need the fine details, just th necessary to understand. I fond sperm wierd to use too, I say daddy's swimmers lol Who knows what's right, parenthood is a journey of struggling along and trusting in decisions that may be right or wrong...GOOD LUCK!

I have a book about a duck and know there's one about an elephant too.

Kay xxx


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## snoopygirl79

olivia - how come the adaptable story is not going to be for heterosexual couples. I find that a bit unfair as I find the book a brilliant idea but unfortunately the "My Story" isn't very useful for me as we had IVF using donor sperm which resulted in twins and the "My Story" only covers DIUI resulting in a single baby. It would be much better if the story could be adapted for all of us who have had the unfortunate need to have to use a donor.

I ended up buying a book from xyandme.com which fortunately covers IVF with donor sperm but however doesn't cover twins which is a great shame as 1 in 4 IVF live births result in twins so why is this aspect not covered in the books?! But I find the "Before You Were Born" a good book and it seems really sweet with the bears. I haven't started reading it to my girls yet but intend to soon but will have to adapt it to say we actually ended up with 2 babies.


----------



## olivia m

Hi Snoopygirl
Just wrote a long reply and lost it...so, start again.
I understand your frustration with the books. But the truth is that we have very little demand from heterosexual couples for books with different scenarios such as IVF, twins, going abroad etc. Most people adapt the books that exist, often typing out words they want to change and sticking them over existing text. With twins they tend to buy a book for each child and just change the wording slightly. The demand for different scenarios came strongly from single women who, in particular, wanted to be able to explain having double or embryo donation abroad to their children. It is the single women's group within DCN that has done all the work in producing the new adaptable pages for downloading.
That said, My Story in particular, in looking a little dated. It was written over twenty years ago now and probably needs re-illustrating. This is very expensive to do and not on our priority list at the moment. IVF was rarely used with donor sperm in those days as people often did very many IUI cycles (it was much cheaper then), but we don't include IVF anyway because the books are meant as 'starter' stories for very young children who could not be expected to understand - nor do they need to know - exactly how the sperm (or the egg) got inside mummy. The wording in My Story p13 is "They went to the hospital several times when the egg was ready so that the nurse could put the sperm inside mummy" This could refer to either IUI or IVF.
We find that very few children actually ask about the process of putting the sperm or egg inside and certainly not until they are a bit older. At that time IVF can be explained and some children take a keen scientific interest in it then...others don't. If they do then Tim Appleton's book/CD Rom My Beginnings: A very special story can be really helpful. You can get these resources directly from Tim at www.mybeginnings.org
Hope this is helpful.
Olivia

/links


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## Spaykay

Maybe I'm just feeling sensitive but I do not feel unfortunate to have used a donor egg now (although I went mad when it first came up). I feel very fortunate to have my daughter and if I had a choice of having a child with our frozen donor egg embrios or using my own eggs....I'd go for the donor egg embrios now.   

has anyone wanting a book looked at the lulu sit someone posted on here and thought about writing their own? Then it would meet your exact needs. I think with natural conception not many end with twins or more...but the parent/s can say "but there were 2 of you!) or something a bit yummier

Kay xxx

Kay xxx


----------



## snoopygirl79

I'm sorry if I upset anyone with my comment but in an ideal world I wouldn't have used donor sperm but my DH is infertile so that was the only way we could have children together as we both wanted me to experience pregnancy. I was absolutely devastated when I learnt he was infertile, as was he as I wanted nothing more than to have his biological children. But then if we hadn't used donor sperm we wouldn't have our gorgeous girls and of course I wouldn't change them for the world. But I still feel it is an unfortunate situation as it's something we'll have to deal with for the rest of our lives and it still upsets me that DH will never have his own biological children. But he couldn't love our girls more.

olivia - thanks for your comments. I do not understand why updating the "My Story" is not a priority at the moment as I think it's fundamental to starting the telling process as a book is definitely what we'll use to start the process. Ideally I would love a book about DIVF which results in twins but will have to settle with the one I've got just about DIVF with a single baby as I feel it's more relevant to us than the current "My Story".


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

snoopy - I feel the same, by choice we wouldn't of used DS and DH wouldn't have anything wrong with him and we would need to use contraception to stop us getting pg     but like you said we wouldn't have our gorgeous boy and i thanked DH for giving him to me as without his IF we wouldn't have 'him'.  Its a strange concept   

I was thinking today that I wish we could stay in our bubble and little one wouldn't need to know ever    but reality is he needs to know    Just hope it doesn't spoil the happy little man we have at the moment.


----------



## Spaykay

snoopy - didn't upset, I just think unfortunate surprised me as I forget the 'genetic' part of EG.  As the who doesn't have a biological child I can say that it really doesn't matter. It's such a weird feeling as I'll never know what it's like to have a biological child. I understand what you mean because it is EG that will have to cope with having a different and maybe difficult story to tell in the end, not me...but I hope we can all find a way of making their journey into the world as natural and positive as possible  I never knew such joy could come out of such sadness.

Kay xxx


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## olivia m

Hi Snoopygirl
I am sorry that you don't like My Story (but pleased you have found books you are happy to read to your girls). Updating this book is not a priority because most people seem to be very happy to continue using/adapting it and we have many other projects to support parents that are competing for the small amount of funds available.  I absolutely agree that story books are a fundamental way of starting the telling process and it is good that there are a range of books to choose from as some people and their children will like some more than others.  I wish there were more for children conceived by sperm donation.  There are far more on the market for egg donation children.
Olivia


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## Dominique123456

bookmarking


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## lucy8

Can anyone recommend any books where the  egg donor is a relative  - can not find any - thanks.


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## olivia m

Hi Lucy
To my knowledge there are not any books for children where the donor is a relative. That said, the existing ones are pretty easy to adapt with your own words. We would be happy to help with that at DC Network if you felt you wanted support. We also have a group of families where the donor is a relative so you might want to be in touch with them. www.dcnetwork.org
Olivia
/links


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## Ginger

Hello FF and long time no post.

My beautiful egg-donor  conceived son was 4 in November, and tonight, with a lump in my throat and a tear in my eye I opened the DCN "Our Story" for the first time. (the donor was vaguely known to us but lives in England, we now live in Ireland)

I read it and he listened, making lots of wide-eyed contact, but saying nothing. After we finished, he asked for a second story, which I read, and then he asked for "Our Story" again, which was interesting. Second time round he asked a few questions and made a few comments, including "how did I get in your tummy, how did I get out, did I sleep alone in the hospital, I couldn't see out your tummy when I was in it" 

To cap it all off, and I am still laughing, he asked me ""Do you remember when you were a tiny baby, the size of a germ, (thumb and forefinger used to illustrate) and you grew in MY tummy? You grew and grew so big (hands out stretched to illustrate) and you were so big you blew my head off, and the doctor had to put a new one on" ,,, I am still laughing out loud just typing this again.

So, it's a start, and I am so proud of myself! Onwards and upwards

LOVE to you all and your dreams

Deirdre xxx


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## olivia m

Wonderful Deirdre and well done.  What amazing creatures our children are. Lovely to have news of your family.
Olivia


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## mojitomummy

Deirdre - awwww   xxxx


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## leoaimee

really cute deidre!  well done.

our dd is just starting to think about mummies and daddies - which i guess is the first step to understanding her donor sperm.
she said at christmas 'elmo daddy' 'lulu mummies'

its very sweet!

we have started telling her about being in the tummy and being born.  and about the seed that was put in the tummy to make her.

any other telling news?

ax


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## Spaykay

I've told a few people and the general reaction so far is "Oh, so your not her mum?" or "Why do people need to know? WHy does she need to know?" ERRRRRRMMMMM!!!!! IT'S HER LIFE AND RIGHT! Gawd it sometimes makes me feel lke it's the wrong decision to tell others (not her obviously! I fell that's right!), can't wait until donation is seen and understood as openly as adoption. I keep forgetting to "TELL" EG, bit young to understand still anyway.

Kay xxx


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## Yxx

I know it is such an amazingly selfishless generous thing to donate eggs/sperm but I just don't understand why people think of them as mother/father.  We are their mothers/fathers, brought them into this world and are nuturing them the best we can.

We are starting to think of ways to tell DD.  We have made a photobook of her first year and put a message in there next to my bump photo about a kind lady helping us.  Been umming and ahhing about the My Story book but I don't know what words it uses and don't want DD feeling really different to others and being 'special'.

Very tricky but I'm sure we will get there and she will hopefully understand.

Yxx


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## olivia m

Hi all
What makes the DC Network Our Story for children conceived by egg donation different to vast majority of other story books for children conceived in this way (mostly American) is that it does not talk about 'being special' or being 'an angel'.  It is just a simple and straightforward story told in language that is right for small children.  DCN members can borrow a copy first to check language feels right for their family before buying a copy.  The Telling and Talking booklets (£2.50 to download or £8.50 for printed copy from our website) also stress the importance of treating a child normally and not as 'special' in any way.  The booklet for parents of children aged 0-7 can help with timing of talking, starting the story,  adding to information already given and words to use, plus insights into ways children may respond.
Olivia


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## Spaykay

I've got the book and it's just a simple and true birth story.


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## wishing4miracle

I just read alittle of this board.comin from an egg sharer like myslf i do not view myself as bein the mum.i gave a special gift of an egg that helps achieve a family.its the lady i give them to thats the mum. They make it into a baby and carry and look after them that makes them mummy.yes im its bio mother but im never their mum.i just do my little bit by growin an egg for ladies like yourselves  it makes me very happy i helped someone achieve their dreams by becomin parents.i will be tellin my boys when theyre older


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## drownedgirl

BOOKMARKING


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## Spaykay

yup, but some people don't quite understand donor eggs


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## LiziBee

wishing4miracle - (((hugs)))) you and all donors give the most wonderful gift.
Yxx - the book has text on one page and pictures on the other so if you don't like the words it is very easy to stick your own over the top.

I too prefer the girls to think of themselves as normal and try to avoid 'special' but the number of people who want you to call them special  

Lizi.x


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## juju81

Hi girls,

Am on my phone so can't quote but I've had some really shocking news re my donor. Would you mind having a read of my post in the ask a lawyer part, it's called donor sperm error!!! Just would like some advice,

Thanks


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## olivia m

Hi Juju
What a horrible mess-up by HFEA and clinics involved and what a real shock for you.  I suspect your only recourse would be to get the recruiting clinic (via importing clinic) to contact the donor, explain what has happened and ask if he would be willing to be identifiable for your son (and possibly siblings)... but to be honest I wouldn't necessarily hold out much hope.  Thinking of the future as well, you really only want a donor to be identifiable if they have genuinely chosen this way to donate and are likely to receive enquiries from offspring with interest and openness.
Natalie mentioned contacting DC Network and I would certainly be very happy to talk things over with you via PM on FF, email to [email protected] or by ringing our office on 020 7278 2608.
Take care
Olivia


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## juju81

Thanks Olivia,

Will pm you. Just wondered if we wanted to take this further would we have a case. We've not even received a letter of apology. I feel Noah should be compensated somehow. It's disgusting and has taken his right away   xxx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Ju - Like i've said before, don't let this lie. Someone made a massive error and its the LO that suffers. You have a BIG case you need to fight it. I'll help with anything you need etc?


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## juju81

I don't know where to start


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

You need to get help from a solicitor, a lot see you for free for 1st hour. Get some advice from DCN, get all the info, HFEA, clinic etc, They can't get away with this. Even if donor  refuses to becone open at least the clinic or whoever will have to answer for what happedn and make sure it doesn't happen again.    Don' let them brush it under the carpet.   A few legal letters will ruffle a few feathers!   

Do it for LO.


----------



## dochinka99

I made this posting over a year ago
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=29148.msg3463180#msg3463180

for any new comers and debating the idea, here is what happened to me.

Using donor sibling registry, I found my daughter's half sister. She lives 4 blocks away from my parents! Fortunately, my daughter and I live much further away. But this brought the fear in my head..what happens if she didn't know. Granted it is two half sisters, but it could have been a brother and they could have met...

This is a reminder to everyone that sharing this information is important.


----------



## northernmonkey

Hi ladies,

I've just been reading the comments on describing our little ones as 'special' and have to admit to telling my girls they are special on a regular basis   .  DH and I have always intended to use the word when explaining to the girls how they were conceived because we thought that it would have positive associations and make the girls feel - well, special!!  However, having read this thread I'm having a bit of a panic that it's the wrong thing to do!!  I appreciate that none of us want our children to feel different but I want so much for my daughters to know how longed for and precious they are to us (as I'm sure we all do), and special is a word that seems natural to me to use in that context.  Any thoughts please??

Juju -    I can't imagine what you must be going through but hope you decide to take this further once you get over the shock.  I can't believe they haven't even written to you, it's such shoddy treatment.


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## olivia m

Hi Northern Monkey
Please don't worry, I'm sure you haven't been doing any damage.  Telling any child that they are special from time to time is one of the ways any parent lets their child know that they are much loved.  But if we go on about it, then it could become a burden and something a child feels they have to live up to...or rebel against.  Also our history of struggle to conceive is OUR story, not theirs.  They are not going to understand how much joy they brought to our lives following years of trying to conceive until they gain an adult perspective and in the meantime they just want to enjoy being part of a warm and loving family.  That's enough for most children.
Don't worry about it...just lay off the emphasis on being 'special' and enjoy your lovely daughters.
Olivia


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## Spaykay

northernmonkey - yup, no problem in telling them they're special beacuse you love them so much, but not different because they were conceived via a hard root. We're all special in some way ((())) i guess it's the difference in being specail to us as parnets than being specail compared to other children

Kay xxx


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## LiziBee

Aw Ju, that's awful. ((((hugs)))) Don't know what to say (but didn't want to read and run), I hope you get something resolved to your satisfaction.
NorthernMonkey - I'll second what Olivia and Kay said. As an aside if you are able to go to a 'talking and telling' workshop by the DCN then do. We went and it was really really helpful.

Had an interesting discussion with DD about 'different ways families can be made', came about because I had to explain why her friend called her 'daddy' 'Dave' and not 'Daddy' (mum divorced and remarried) I used it as yet another chance to show that (IMO) your parents are the people who bring you up (not necessarily those who contributed their genes) she seemed fine with it but you could see the cogs turning IYKWIM! 
Which brings me to my point, 'My story' is about to get too young for her, any suggestions of where to go next?
Lizi.x


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## Han72

Hello  

scuse me for butting in but I wondered if you lovely ladies could help/advise

As you can see from my signature I've been around the world and I I I I can't find my baby (  sorry couldn't resist that one!)  

In all seriousness, after several OE IVF failures and a lot of faffing on my part, I finally pulled my head out of my **** with regard to our chances of success with my scrambled eggs.  As a result, our last attempt was DE and we finally got pregnant but it sadly ended in a missed miscarriage at the end of November 2010.

There is some debate as to whether a 5cm fibroid was the culprit, as karyotyping showed bubs was a perfectly normal baby boy, and I hate all that "it's just one of those things" stuff so I was desperate to find out why....  In any case, whatever the cause I had an abdominal myomectomy last month and have now been told I need to wait 6 months before any further tx.  

I thought I had the whole DE thing straight in my head but now I've got a whole 6 months before I can do anything but cogitate, I'm getting in a pickle about it all over again. My dilemma (apart from the whole, "but how do I know if this woman is someone I'd approve of? How do I know the clinic is picking someone that really looks like me? And how important is any of that anyway?!  "  ) is I'm black and unfortunately we're notoriously rubbish at donating anything at all and I'll be 39 next birthday so (with apologies to any older ladies trying out there) I don't feel I can afford to wait for known donor treatment in the UK (where I'm from) or my current location in France (where it's illegal anyway!   ) and I have no suitable female relatives to volunteer. So it's gonna have to be anonymous donor again.

Thing is, I'm firmly in the telling camp and I agree that the info is best drip fed from a relatively young age, so my concern is, what if my child(ren) want to know about / meet their biological mother when they're old enough? Am I not being irresponsible in deliberately having treatment that makes this impossible?

I am well aware that the law on this could change in the future and clinics may be forced to give up identifying information, but if this doesn't happen, is it fair that the children might never know?  I'm also terrified of the "meeting with a half sibling" situation that was mentioned by dochinka99, although this is unlikely as we'll probably go for DE in Barbados again, it's still a concern . My worries have been slightly reduced by the existence of the Donor Sibling Register website but still...

Am I being daft? Can anyone offer any advice?

Many thanks in advance!

xxx


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## olivia m

Hi Nix
This is a really difficult one...a dilemma that is faced everyday by women in the UK needing egg donation but also wanting what will be best for their child in the future.  You have the additional issue of trying to find a donor to match your ethnic background and heritage.
There may be no other choice than to have treatment in a country where donors are anonymous, but before going down that road you might want to explore some UK clinics that are known to have shorter waiting lists and MAY also have the possibility of black women needing IVF but waiting for a suitable recipient to egg-share with.  CRM and the London Women's Clinic (all three branches) are obvious choices, but Herts and Essex Clinic is another to try, plus CARE in Northampton.  Others should not be ruled out either.

Beyond the UK, South Africa might be an obvious place for you as they have donors with the racial backgrounds of all the people living there, you get a lot of information about the donors and SOMETIMES they can be identifiable to the child from age 18.  The agencies Nurture and Global Egg Donation seem to be reputable and worth contacting.

You can of course share information with a child no matter where they were conceived (and DC Network would be happy to support you in doing this), but having an identifiable donor does mean that the door remains open for any child to make choices about contact in the future if that's what they want.
Very best of luck in your search and with your treatment
Olivia


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## Han72

Thanks Olivia, I've been in touch with GED but it seems the donor ID thing isn't binding, in that the donor could say yes to future contact now and then change their minds later on. I'll give Nurture a go though!

Xxx


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## olivia m

Hi Nix
The uncomfortable truth is that even UK donors could change their minds later on, or make it very difficult for a young person to contact them...or even (awful thought) be very unfriendly when they are contacted.  This is one of the reasons why it is SO important that donors understand the long term implications of what they are doing and why money should not be their primary reason for donating.  
Olivia


----------



## Yxx

The more I've been thinking about starting to tell our DD, some things have started to concern me.  I have wondered how the donors remain contactable.  I'm assuming they don't have to by law inform the HFEA/clinic if they move address/change phone details?  What then if DD did want to actually ask if they could meet?  I'm hoping she won't be this curious and be happy to know that some kind lady heped us to create a much loved and wanted family.

Also I have no idea if the donation limit of 10 applies to egg donation or is just limited to sperm donation.  Be hard to comprehend how many half siblings there could be out in the world somewhere if this limit doesnt apply.  We have put distance between clinic and home address in hope that the "meeting with a half sibling" situation doesn't happen that easily too.

Am thinking of applying for the basic information I am allowed to have from HFEA as I know my donor got pregnant too but not whether she went on to have a baby.

Lots to sort out methinks.
Yxx


----------



## olivia m

Hi Yxx
Yes, there is a lot to think about.  Donors do not by law have to let the HFEA know when they change their contact details.  Young people, at 18 or when they choose to enquire after that, will be given a name and last known address.  As it currently stands the HFEA is saying they will attempt to get in touch the donor to let her/him know that an offspring is interested in being in contact and that they have been given their details.  However, no detail has been given as to what lengths the HFEA will be willing to go to in order to contact the donor...and indeed with the HFEA's future now being uncertain, who knows what another authority might or might not be prepared to do.

With regard to the ten family rule, it does apply to egg donors but it is highly unlikely that an egg donor in the UK will have contributed to more than two or three families at maximum...plus her own children of course.  These latter children do NOT appear on the HFEA register, only children the donor contributed to making for someone else. 

You may be interested to know that donor conceived young people tend to be much more interested in half siblings than they are in their donor.  As I said above, the donor's own children will not appear on the register but if, for instance, your daughter chose to have contact with her donor then she might also have the opportunity to get to know the donor's child or children.  These links are being made formally and informally all the time now so it is helpful for parents to begin to adjust to the idea that a child might wish this sort of contact in the future.
Olivia


----------



## estrella

Hi there,
I am delighted to say I am 38 weeks pregnant and extremely excited. We used donor sperm from xytex and have told only my sister and we will be telling the child. My concern is how we have chosen not to tell our other family or friends, and the reasons for this are because I certainly couldnt tell my mother as she is an alcoholic and cannot be trusted, and my father has remarried and I dont get on at all with my stepmum. My sister is extremely happy for us and as I mentioned we will tell the child. Does anyone feel it will be a problem that we have told some family and not others? How will the child feel when she/he knows only certain members of the family have been told? DP says he will tell his family in time but as it stands at the moment he just wants us to know. 
Is this situation getting 'messy'? Or is it fine just to tell the child and let them tell who they like? 
E xx


----------



## Spaykay

I often wonder about why we find it so hard to tell others. I keep thinking, if we'd adopted EG then we would let people know from day dot, why do I find this so much harder, peoples ignorance I guess. People just don't seem to understand the idea of a donor. I hope I manage to let EG know in a natural way. Where can I ask advice now on how to explain thather sibling will have been concieved with mummy's eggs after her coming from a special ladies eggs? How can I make this all normal for her? ADVICE?

Kay xxx


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## LV.

Hello all,

Hope you don't mind if i say hi, I've been a lurker on this thread on and off for a while. We've been on the IVF treadmill for about 3 years, been told my eggs had kharked it and had made my peace with moving on to DE. Initially when we thinking about DE I was scared, embarrassed, ashamed and insecure and didn't want to tell a soul, let alone any child, about any DE treatment. The more reading I've done around the subject and have become relatively educated about it I know that it's absolutely the right thing to tell the child and I'm a total supporter of telling and I'm 100% comfortable with this now. Our first DE cycle failed but the clinic in Athens has been absolutely wonderful and it was suggested for the first time ever that DH's sperm was not up to the job and they suggested we should also consider DS. Last month we decided completely on the spur of the moment (literally I spoke to the clinic, got a +ve ovulation test and flew off to the clinic that day) to try DS IUI and low and behold, bingo - a BFP last week.

What has been more apparent in my thoughts recently is that if we tell the child than we'll definitely have to tell others too and we did tell a few close family members and friends about our decision to try DE, but as the DS cycle was so impulsive we'd not really filled anyone in. Of course (amongst the inevitable early pg fear and crazy) I've been thinking about this more and wondering why it seems harder to tell other people about donor conception, and why it seems more daunting than telling the child.

Spaykay - I read your post and it echoed my own thoughts the discussions we recently had at the DCN meeting. We splintered into small groups after the main talk and the points I brought away were that many people in the group who had donor conceived children had experienced at some point an element of shame attached to the conception of their children. Those that had managed to move on from that and 100% accept and embrace their child's beginnings and be comfortable themselves were having a much more positive experience with the "outside world". I stress this wasn't shame about their children who they obviously adored, just about the mechanism of conception and I feel this is where I need to get to. The other thing I took away as practical advice was experiences shared about _how _they told others as the delivery of the news to others tended to match the reaction received. So if the news is told to others, for example, as an apology with hunched shoulders, muttered breath and generally negative body language the recipient of the news tended to receive the news badly and with judgment, whereas if the news is given with a smile, confidence, being loud and proud (as it were) then the recipient would generally be accepting and non-judgemental and it not be given a second thought. The other interesting point was that many in the room reported that friends and family would frequently actually forget about a child's donor conception and it was stressed that as parents (to-be) of donor conceived children, we're more bothered about it than other people are. Others have their own busy lives and of course their priorities are themselves, rather than us and the story of how our babies came to the world.

I do think for us there will be lots of people we don't tell but it was discussed in our group that is a difference between secrecy and privacy. At some point it becomes the child's news to tell and not ours and I think this should be respected before considering telling everyone and anyone, I think there's a delicate balance to achieve.

Ooo that was a bit of a ramble.

Would love to hear other people's storie, experiences and thoughts of telling others!

LadyV xx


----------



## olivia m

Hi Estrella, Spaykay and Ladyverte

Estrella:  Experience in DC Network has shown that it is helpful for a child if immediate family, on both sides, know about donor conception so that if/when the child chooses to speak about it, the news is not a shock.  Have a look at our Telling and Talking booklet for parents of 0-7s for further support, guidance and practical suggestions about language to use around this.  Our philosophy is that it is the responsibility of parents to share the information with those who need to know up to the point when it is appropriate to hand over the information to the child to share with whoever they choose.  The age at which this starts to happen tends to be between 8 and 10 with parents and children consulting with each other during this time and the information being handed over for good by the time the child is in secondary school.  We have no evidence that children resent when older the fact that parents shared information about their conception with others during their younger years.  Comfortable parents share information in ways that help children in turn feel comfortable with information which is received as normal and unproblematic.
Children over the age of seven or so can understand that there are some people whom it might be better not to tell about DC, either because they really don't need to know or because they wouldn't understand.  Under that age, they may get a confusing message (implicating shame) if told that they shouldn't talk about it with certain people.  Our experience is that young children of heterosexual couples rarely talk about DC because it is of little interest to them, partly because they have not really grasped the whole story yet and partly because they have more interesting things to talk about!  Children in single parent and lesbian families are often asked very direct questions about daddies by other children so they have to grapple with DC issues much earlier than children of heterosexual couples.

Spaykay:  I understand your concern, but in DCN we have many mixed conception families, including one with egg donation twins followed by two spontaneous singleton pregnancies.  If you are not already a member do join us to connect to others sharing your situation.

Ladyverte:  Thanks so much for bringing your experience of our recent national meeting to FF.  I of course support all you say.  HOW news is shared so often reflects how the speaker themself feels, so it is really worth a time of reflection, research and talking with others in a similar situation - reviewing DCN materials etc - before sharing information with others.  And people do forget...they really do.

Olivia


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## DizziSquirrel

Spaykay your thoughts echo mine too and I was going to say my plan is to explain to Abbie that its private to our family ( those in the know) and that she can choose who she shares the information with,

LadyV thank you for your post, I found it really helpful and your so right, those who know do forget !! I will be refering back to it in the future for sure!

Oliva


> Comfortable parents share information in ways that help children in turn feel comfortable with information which is received as normal and unproblematic.
> Children over the age of seven or so can understand that there are some people whom it might be better not to tell about DC, either because they really don't need to know or because they wouldn't understand


very true, thank you, I will get round to getting the telling and talking books one of these days!

~Dizzi~


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## leoaimee

spaykay MEGAMEGA congratulations!!!!!  soooooooooooooo pleased for you!!  havent been much around the ff boards these days and havent seen your news on another thread.


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## Spaykay

thanks aimee...ooo, new name!

Not worried about telling as, even though some have said "Oh, so you're are not her mum" ermmmmm....yes! But just worried I'll get the telling EG wrong. Just fears of her not knowing about 1 side of her genetic make up and her sibling knowing. Whether to make comments about sibling looking like me, my family etc when she doesn't, although of course she'll get other atributes. I'm sure as time passes it will all fall together. She just needs to know that she is our world, full stop 

kay xxx


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## olivia m

Hi all
For those looking through this thread who are not clear about the benefits of openness, here is a link to Why Openness is Best for Children and Families on the DC Network site, http://www.donor-conception-network.org/WHY%20OPENNESS%20ABOUT%20DONOR%20CONCEPTION.pdf

Olivia

/links


----------



## Spaykay

Can i join dc network although i love abroad? What support is there abroaad?

Kay x


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## olivia m

Hi Kay
Anyone who is part of a donor conception family is welcome to join DCN wherever they live in the world.  You would receive a Contact List of people you can email, get our monthly eBulletin of news and information, receive our twice yearly Journal of longer articles by email, be able to request contacts to be put in touch with others who share your situation (but who are not on the Contact List) and be invited to come to our national meetings held twice a year.  On several occasions we have had members attending these meetings from places in Europe (am I right in thinking you live in Spain?).  You could also come over for a Telling and Talking workshop - although these are open to non-members as well.  The only services not available to you would be borrowing books and films from our library and attending local meetings.
Do join us.
Olivia


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## Spaykay

Will do, thanks x think EG will begin to understand soon. Already patting my tummy bless. X


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## DZWSingleMumma

HI all,

I've been thinking about additional resources for when/if I have my child.  I am concerned as the DCN seems very UK biased and my donor is American.  I am also looking at the Donor Sibling Registry as that seems to have a massive following and success rate.  My child will be open ID donor concieved and will know it's father at 18 if it chooses to.  

I feel very strongly about the idea of half siblings and like the idea of both the DCN and DSR and allowing me to trace other women who have children by my donor.  (My donor himself already has a child).

Anyway would anyone be able to comment on which service gives better value etc?

Dawn


----------



## olivia m

Hi Dawn
I obviously can't comment on value for money, but I can tell you that DCN and DSR have different aims and offer different services, so you might want to consider joining both.  The focus at DCN is on connecting families of all types with others in the same situation for mutual support and supporting parents in being open with their children.  You can see a full list of benefits of membership on our website.  We have just over 500 single women members and many of them have US identifiable (or sometimes anonymous) donors.  Many of these women belong to the DSR as well where the emphasis is simply on connecting donors/offspring/half-siblings.  We have a very good relationship with Wendy and Ryan Kramer, founders of the DSR - Wendy has stayed at our house on visits to the UK - and I'm sure she would not want people choosing between the two organisations.
Do join us.
Best wishes
Olivia


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## pippilongstockings

Sorry just crashing to say CONGRATULATIONS KAY!!  I was so shocked when I saw your signature that I spat out my tea!  What fab news, bet that was a shock


----------



## Spaykay

Pippi -thanks. Luckily I wasn't drinking tea when I found out!


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## carrie lou

Hi,
Hope you don't mind me joining you, we are expecting our first baby in 2 weeks' time. He was conceived using donor sperm from Xytex and we plan to tell him all about it. We already have the Telling and Talking booklet and also the My Story book from DCN. But I remember seeing someone mention making their own personalised book to tell their child about using a donor and I think this is a lovely idea - I would like to do the same and just wondered if anyone else had done this, and if so, how do you go about it? Any tips would be welcome


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## drownedgirl

Cl most photo companies like bonusprint sell hardback or ring bound books you could create with photos and captions


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## Yxx

Like DG has said, we have made a photobook for our DD.  We have used words and photos to tell our story from embryo picture, to scan pictures and bump photos right through to her first birthday.

I think it will also help others understand if she chooses to share it with them.

Yxx


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## Spaykay

That sounds like a good idea! Drowned, sorry if this is too private to ask, but was your 1st DS donor concieved? If not, I'd be very interested in hearing how you share this with your other children to give me some tips for EG and baby to come. THanks...oops child falñlen over, better turn her up the right way!

Kay xxx


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## drownedgirl

Kay no ds1 was naturally conceived

We discussed de with him very early on - as soon as I was pg
He was 4 1/2 then and very interested in where babies come from - because he knew the rudiments of that he asked questions right away and sO it was either tell the truth or hide it somehow

I just said that he knew a baby cMe from mummy's egg ...

GDR iPhone is irritating me let me get laptop out


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## Spaykay

It's more EG's feelings towards her being donor egg concieved and new baby being concieved naturally that I'm worried about. She'll probably just take it as it is...but I don't want her to feel different in any negative way.

We also have 2 frozen embryos which I don't want to use and DH is worried EG will be upset that we destroyed her "siblings" I don't see it like this, but we will need to discuss this matter.

Kay xxx


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## drownedgirl

Back and realised your dc children are older than your natural pg

I haven't yet broached the subjec of conception with the twins, IIRC with DS it was the 3/4 year mark where he asked questions and began to grasp it all so I expect it will be the same for them

I do think for any children conceived via fertility treatments it is important to try to introduce the 'normal' way of doing things before medicalising it (am aware it probably doesn't work like that necessarily if you are a same sex couple or used a surrogate) but for me it has always been very easy and natural to talk of how they grew in my tummy (esp as I was recently pg again so they could see) and how they grew from a tiny seed until they were big enough to be born

They all learn at nursery about seeds growing so they understand all that very well

It is quite natural to drop in that they grew from an egg from mummy and a sperm from daddy if that was the case

If not you explain that mummy and daddy (this isn't meant to assume anythng about other families btw, I am just recounting things I have said!) wanted to grow a baby but the little seeds couldn;t grow and in the end kind friend K said we could have some of her eggs and a doctor helped us by taking out some of her eggs to mix with daddies sperm and that made some tiny babies that then grew in mummies tummy ... and then talk about birth etc

So I think when it comes up, what I will say is that first of all mummy did have eggs that used to grow and one grew into C but later on the eggs were too old and none of them would grow so we needed some help

The issues that may seem important to us (dc children are only halfsibs to ds1, are also half sibs to friend/donor's children, only DS1 is genetically mine/related genetically to my family) are not particularly important to children  We may fear they will feel that they are more our less our children based on the genetics, but for small children I dont think the idea would even cross their mind


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## drownedgirl

I doubt it will be an issue till much much later and will be one of many issues regarding identity and family that all young people grapple with

I think if you have already mentioned the dc aspect then you could introduce the new baby quite straight fowardly 

"We never thought one of mummy's eggs would ever grow ... that's why we had to work so hard to get you... maybe mummy's eggs worked out what they were supposed to do after all, after you grew in my tummy and mummy's eggs decided they would try extra hard to turn into a tiny baby too! They wanted to make you a sister... we're so lucky we didn't need to get any help from a doctor this time or find a kind lady to give us her eggs"


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## drownedgirl

I think the key will be to emphasise the commonality between the children

The new baby is growing in mummy's tummy just like you did

Mummy is making milk for the  baby just like she did for you (I do find all my big ones are a bit jealous at me bf edan) 

and when you discuss where babies come from then you can say about how a baby grows from an egg and a sperm and in some families they need some help making the eggs and sperms grow properly, or they need someone to give them some eggs or some sperm or both "and in our family we have made a baby both ways - we needed help to grow you and a doctor mixed daddy's sperm with an egg we were given... baby x was a BIG surprise because when we were having a special cuddle we never guessed that one of mummy's own eggs was waiting for daddy's sperm and decided to make a brother or sister for you!"


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## drownedgirl

I think it will just flow

and because you love E so much and are so positive about her origins, how could she detect anything negative in comparison with the new baby? She won't

all parents who are pg with their second child feel guilty you know about how it will affect their first child, who has had all their love

to have a second child on the way as a surprise wll exacerbate that because you didn;t make  a conscous decision to risk E's position as oly child and centre of your attention

Add to that the donor/nondonor issue and it;s the icing on the cake really, i suspect!! But your feelings are totally normal for any mother pog with no 2

x


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## Spaykay

Thanks for your opinions! Part of our plan on talking about no.2 coming along was that she helped make baby no.2 as she made mummys body all cosy so that an egg could find it's way, or domething lilke that.....if she even asks!!!! DH worries about (and so do I) the comparisons of ooo, DD/S2 you have mummys eyes etc. (if they do!) But then, DD1 will have aspects of my personality, gestures etc etc and it's important for them to know that it's who they are, not who they take after that is important. I'm sure it will just flow when it comes to the time, I HOPE!

Kay xxx


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## drownedgirl

I think you may need to try to minimise well meaning relatives cooing over the baby in that way ... It is mostly with babies peoPle say things like that isn't it?

PerhaPs you can create a family myth right now comparing e to daddy so she will never feel left out if the baby gets compared to you

If there is no obvious physical similarity you can Probably make one up!


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## Spaykay

Everyone says EG is identical to DH anyway! Not all family know so inapporopriate things have been said...they may have to be told! New one may look nothing like me anyway...if they're lucky! And they're bound to look a bit like EG in some way as they'll both have Daddy's genes. 

Kay xxx


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## drownedgirl

I think try to create something like 'our family all has long toes' or something they can share

In our case all our children do look similar ... Though de dd is also spitting image of donors dd but ds1 actually has a medical issue he gets from me ... And i feel quite bad about it as it affecting him at school

I fear he may feel quite conscious of it as he gets older as the twins already show up as more 'normal' in areas where he struggles


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## Spaykay

Thanks...much appreciated. I know we will make mistakes, get things right and be worried...but what parents don't eh!

Kay xxx


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## drownedgirl

It is a thorny issue
Worrying our choices might cause pain to put children in future is a hard sort of second guessing


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## drownedgirl

I had a very good idea today

Using your iPhone to support telling

If your family is anything like ours the children are fascinated by the new generation phones

I was showing m pics today from mine and my ** Inc me pg with the twins, them as babies and her when she was hospitalised at 10m

If I had scan pics etc on here I could go back further

Just create a folder with pic of donor/clinic/embryo/scan/pg tummy/newborn baby/ your family etc and in odd moments when they need entertaining flick through the images and tell the story

Same pics can support a very simple story at first or a lot more detail later

Will trickle into their consciousness very gradually


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## Spaykay

EG already uses my iphone and says BABY when she sees the scan...so cute!

I just wish we could travel forward in time and ask our kids how they would go about this.

Kay xxx


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## drownedgirl

Well I think making sure they don't remember being sat down and 'told' in a way that makes them feel it is a big deal is a good start 

I think having them look back on 'before I knew' and 'after I knew' puts too much pressure on

Sk - perhaps get her scan pic on your phone too then she will internalise early on that both your children grew the same ... And ditto for your new child

Let them
Appreciate what they have in common


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## olivia m

Hi Kay
Your anxiety is understandable but lots of DC young people are now talking about how it feels to be told you are donor conceived and in essence their thoughts are summed up by Sam, who was 16 at the time -

“People seem to get so stressed about it all. I think they should just chill out more. If they care enough to join the Network and come to the meetings then they’re obviously really anxious to do the right thing, so they probably will do the right thing.”

Although he refers to people coming to DCN meetings because that is what he was talking with his mother about at the time, I think more broadly he means all parents who are thoughtful and believe that by being honest they are doing the best they can for their children.

We give lots of guidance in DCN about ways in which you might go about sharing information with your children - whether they are conceived with or without the help of a donor - but we NEVER say there is only one right way to go about it as everyone is the expert on their own family.  You just have to trust yourself to get it right most of the time, taking into account your child's stage of development and their temperament and personality.  Also take on board suggestions of ways to approach the subject given by us and people like DG, and adapt for your own circumstances. Try not to worry too much, it really will be OK.
Olivia


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## drownedgirl

Because in your heart eg is not second best in anyway, she will know that x


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## Spaykay

Thanjs (((()))) I actually worry about loving the next as much as her, they have a lot to live up to!!! Lol


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## drownedgirl

All second time round mums have that fear !


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## olivia m

Hi all
I wonder how everyone feels about changing the title of this thread to Telling the Child and Other People?  Our experience at DC Network is that more people these days are anxious about how to share information with other members of the family and who needs to know outside the family circle.  And of course if a child knows how they were conceived then they may choose any moment to talk with others about it...although this doesn't often happen until they are seven or eight (with exceptions!).  Dizzi is comfortable with the idea of amending the title but it would be good to know how other FFers feel about it.
Olivia


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## suitcase of dreams

Yes, I think that probably makes sense Olivia - we've already touched on this on the thread anyway, and it would be good to have a place to talk about this aspect of telling as well as telling the child themselves   

Suitcase
x


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## daisyg

Olivia,

I think this is a good idea. Some time ago, Spaykay started a similar thread about telling other people, so maybe this could be one thread covering all aspects of tell or if not a merged thread then at least another separate sticky thread?

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=242720.0

Daisy
xx


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## pinkcat

I think it would be good to merge threads. They are both very similar issues.


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## carrie lou

I agree a good idea. I also think it would be helpful to cover not just telling other people, but talking about the issue as well once they have been told. With my in-laws it's like a taboo subject that we dare not mention and I realize this is their way of dealing with it, but when our baby is older I don't want him to feel like he can't talk about it in front of them if he wants to.


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## Spaykay

Yes please, we are slowly telling others...it's actually quite exciting. I don't want it to feel like something to hide but also not public knowledge as it is EG's personal life. Most people are great and tend think nothing of it. 

Kay xxx


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## LV.

I think that's a great idea, it's telling others that we are having most difficulty reconciling, telling the child seems like the easy bit! 


xxx


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## LV.

Q for Olivia - I was wondering if there were any support groups or workshops for folks at the pregnancy stage. The workshops on the DCN site I can see are aimed at either those ttc, or those with children and we're inbetweenies. I'm keen to get hubby along to something as despite being pro telling the child he seems to be less than enthusiastic about telling other people now we're actually here and it's a reality. I've told my nearest and dearest but he's finding it harder and we've not told anyone on his side yet and he's now saying he's not sure about telling his parents as they are too old and wouldn't understand. I don't want there to be a big reveal at some point way down the line but I also don't want to be too pushy, he needs to feel comfortable himself and not feel forced. He got a lot out of the small support groups at the DCN meeting and I'm wondering if there's anything similar that might be suitable for us.


Any suggestions gratefully received!! 


Thanks
LV xx


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## olivia m

Hi Lady V
You are right about our workshops.  We used to invite those who were pregnant to the Telling and Talking ones but experience showed that people benefitted more (it was all much more real) if they had been parents for at least a few months before attending.  
I wonder where you live as a local group would probably be of support to your partner.  If you are in London we have groups covering almost every geographical section of the city, but outside of the capital they are a bit more spread out.  You would need to join the Network in order to attend (if you are not members already).  Why don't you pm me and I'd be happy to help.
Olivia


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## olivia m

Hi Dizzi
Seems there is some enthusiasm and no dissent for this slight change in title/focus of this thread.  Could you make the change for us please?
Many thanks
Olivia


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

I am the moderator for this board.


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

I have changed the post number 1 title and the new ones from now will have that title, but I cannot and I am afraid will not go through 14 pages of posts and change the title on every post.


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## Spaykay

Thanks HH, it's only for helping new people with the tellibg others question so that's fab!


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## olivia m

That's great Hazel, thanks so much.
Olivia


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## juju81

Thanks Hazel - I sometimes find ur posts quite abrupt   

Olivia, is there anywhere else u can get the 'your story' book from it's just I can't use paypal for some reason


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## olivia m

Hi Juju
You can use a credit or debit card via our site for buying books rather than a PayPal account, or you can download an order form and send it with a cheque to our PO Box address (on the form).  I'm sorry, you can't buy our books anywhere else.
Olivia


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## Spaykay

EG keeps getting upset seeing mummy and daddy sad in the book so in process of making one with her photos on kodak gallery. 

Kay xxx


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## juju81

Ah that's fab, thanks Olivia 

Pinkcat, funny, I thought that too


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## olivia m

Ah the answer to that mystery goes back in time.  My Story was the very first book for children in English (the VERY first one was in French!) published 20 years ago now.  At the time the focus was on the child as in some way being 'different' to the family, so it was his or her story.  This book originated with the Infertility Research trust in Sheffield and DCN took it over a few years ago.  When DCN came to contemplate writing and producing the other books we had moved on in our thinking (very much influenced by Professor Ken Daniels from New Zealand) to focus on the donor conception FAMILY rather than just the donor conceived child.  Hence OUR Story rather than MY story.
I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts about this.
Olivia


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Can u not change it Olivia?


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## olivia m

Yes, we would like to change it too but the copyright is held by Infertility Research Trust and we have hundreds of copies (printed by them) that we cannot afford to junk.  Don't worry, the book does not put ANY emphasis on difference at all and you can make it clear in the way you tell the story and talk with your child generally that you are a DC family, not that s/he is a DC child.
When we eventually run out of the copies we have of My Story we hope to bring out a new book in line with the others.  We may do this in a printed version or we may do it on-line offering various options that can be downloaded to suit the situation of individual families.  We have planned to do this for single women for some time but been delayed because of complicated web site issues (hopefully to be resolved later this year).
Olivia


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## carrie lou

Olivia that's really interesting to know, thank you. Can I ask, will the new book have slightly more modern illustrations? Only I find some of the pictures in My Story a bit outdated!


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## olivia m

Hi Carrie Lou
Yes, any new version will have fresh illustrations.  We are only too aware of how outdated the current book looks to our adult eyes, but I think it is unlikely that this is a problem for young children.
Do hope all is going well for you and your new son.
Olivia


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## olivia m

Hi all
Thought you might like to read a thoughtful article by Barry Stevens, a donor conceived adult who has lived in Canada since he was 12 but was conceived in London UK over fifty years ago. It was written following a very important ruling in the Supreme Court of British Columbia (explained in the article).
http://www.geneticsandsociety.org/article.php?id=5739
Olivia

/links


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## Spaykay

interesting...but has made me feel c**p. Living in Spain we used ananymous egg donor. Hope EG doesn't grow up feeling angry...more to worry about now! 

Kay xxx


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## drownedgirl

Sk I suppose you would just explain how difficult your path was, the expense of ivf in the uk and you wanted her do desperately ... And a lifetime of your love and care will be more than enough for her to know you have always done your very best for her


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## Spaykay

Really wasn't planning on her knowing about the hardship of our journey, just the fact that mummy's eggs weren't making babies so a special lady kindly gave mummy and daddy eggs so they could have a baby. Her questions will guide us as to what more information she wants. if she asks about the lady then we will tell her that she was a kind lady who wanted to help us have a family and support her if ever there are sites where she can put her info to try and find siblings. Hope she realises that the gift is more than someone 'mas*******ing' as the donor child adult put it. (even though the process for a woman is obviously very different!) I wonder 'how' this adult was brought up knowing the knowledge. It would be interesting to know adults opinions and ideas according to 'how' they were told. It sounds far more negative than Olivia's children's comments who were obviously brought up with a positive vision.

Kay xxx


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## drownedgirl

That's a good point sk
Perhaps in their efforts to make the donor aspect unimportant that family have a negative message regarding the donor


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## suitcase of dreams

kay -    so hard isn't it? I worry too that my boys will one day resent the fact that they cannot find out any info about their donors because I went abroad, and I feel guilty that I did so for primarily financial reasons - I tried once with DE in the UK and it didn't work and I simply could not afford to keep paying UK prices knowing that it may take multiple cycles to work for me   

I also worry that they will know that the 'kind' lady and man were after all not so kind, or at least not doing it purely out of kindness and probably in it for the cash as much as anything...since they will surely grow up to learn that donors abroad are paid for their donations and not altruistic

My twins are only 12 weeks old and I haven't got my head around how I will deal with all this (and probably more!) as they grow up. I do know I'll tell them pretty much the whole story although for reasons above I am thinking of leaving the word 'kind' out and simply referring to a man and a lady who the doctors found to help me make/grow a baby
and perhaps like dg suggests, once they get old enough to really understand the ins and outs of it, I will emphasise that I was very sad because it was taking a long time to have a baby and I needed so much help, and that's why I went abroad because I knew I had the highest chance of success there - and because of the long journey they are very much wanted and very much loved...and I can only hope that this will be enough for them
who knows? maybe they won't even be interested! the article Olivia links to is just one man's story, we can't know how our children will feel in years to come, especially if they grow up knowing from the very start that no/little information is available to them...

Suitcase
x


----------



## LV.

I was sad reading that too and stopped shortly after the mast****ting comment feeling guilty as hell, reinforcing the negative about our situation (which I can't change) will not do me any good.  I am choosing to focus on the the comments on the DCN bulletin this month and there did seem to be a trend of more positive comments from those early told, perhaps that's head in the sand stuff but we plan to be open and honest, we can't do any more than that and beating ourselves up about things we can't change isn't going to make this easier. Our children will be/ are truly loved and we are trying to do the best for them in the circumstances we find ourselves in now and the best is to tell early, something we're all in support of here. We can't change our stories so we need to navigate through them and, I think, give ourselves a break. I think it's important to remember that most parents will bear guilt of some description, it's part of the parent job description. Our headline item will be about (anonymous) donor conception, other parents will most definitely have their own very individual cross to bear about their personal circumstances. 

I hope that makes sense! 
Xxx


----------



## drownedgirl

Exactly
Very good post


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## drownedgirl

I do think there will come a time when our children will come to understand what a difficult choice was faced

How the donor route wasn't chosen on a whim, how maybe some aspects such as anonymity were forced by circumstance not choice 

Maybe not until they themselves are adults but one day


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

if you had ivf with own sperm then the man would still need to do his 'do' in a cup!


----------



## olivia m

Interesting to read all your comments.  I am sorry if some of you found some bits hard to take.  Barry and his sister (different donors) were 'told' by their mother in their late teens/early twenties a couple of years after their father had died.  Neither of the children had felt 'different' in the family and Barry remembers his father with love.  His views are in fact some of the most balanced from an older offspring...some of his half-sibs are much more radical in their views, believing that donor conception is inevitably damaging.  Barry does not believe this and he and his sister are both supporters of the DC Network perspective and way of going about things.
We do absolutely know that early telling is protective and parents who are not ashamed of having used DC and open to talking about it with their children are likely to have and maintain relationships that can overcome having to use an anonymous donor.
Olivia


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## *ALF*

I think it's important to focus mor eon the words that followed the m******** comment - 'and made an anonymous gift of his sperm to a multitude of women, one of them my mother' - focusing on the VERY positive action that followed, after all as Mini has said any child conceived using 'normal' IVF/ICSI has the m********ing action as part of their story.


----------



## juju81

I suppose they were just gettin to the point with the masturbating comment because let's face it, that is exactly what they do. We thought we were using an identifiable donor, turns out he should have remained anonymous, therefore we have no choice with the lack of information we can give our little one and somehow will have to explain that to him when/if he asks


----------



## drownedgirl

Egg donor child speaking -






/links


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## Spaykay

Will watch the clip later, thanks

i do think that how and when the child is told has affect. I am already learning what to add and cut from EG's story as she already shows upset at the thought that mummy and daddy were sad. As for the lady, she is just a 'special lady' and there is no moire ecplanation at the moment in our story. That will come. I also think that even if the ladies (or men) get money, they must have to think very carefully. I'm not sure that I could have easily parted with my eggs, even for money. Who knows? I never will, but I know that ladies on here who egg share to have cheaper tx certainly are kind and thoughtful and not just doing it for cost. I guess individual children will feel different and the imporatnce of genes will be different for each, we all just know that we wanted a family, and now we do and we love them dearly and will do what we think is best.

Kay xxx


----------



## drownedgirl

A thought crossed my mind and I hope I won't upset anybody

But how do you a child from egg sharing might feel? Do you think they might feel they were 'given away' in while other eggs were kept?


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

I think that however a child is conceived if things are negative in the family about it then the child will have something to say.
There are many children from violent or broken homes who might wish that their mother had not had them or had them in a different circumstance. I think we read too much into these negative stories.
What teenager has not said to their parents ''I wish so and so's mummy was mine - they are so much nicer than you'' or ''I hate you'' or ''I wish I was never born''

In a family where the child is genetically related to both and there is no negatives then the comments are dismissed as teenage rage and ignored as much as possible.

In our situation, with the amount of heartache that we have suffered to come to the decision to use a donor and the amount of thought we have put into it and the amount of effort we have made to make it right, then such comments would be taken very much to heart by the parents and you start to doubt your actions. As long as you remember this when it comes to it and you have done everything you can to be positive, then I think that you just have to accept the rough with the smooth as a normal part of growing up.

I am concerned in my situation especially as my DH is still very hands off even with me only having 2-3 weeks to go and not knowing how he is going to react one day to the next is going to make it difficult. Any negative comments from the child will make my DH go into melt down, I can see it coming.


----------



## drownedgirl

Hh - many years to go
Before hateful teenage years, luckily!


----------



## drownedgirl

Being conceived from donor embryo must bring strange feelings of ... Where would I bs if I had been transferred to the original
Couple / another family


----------



## suitcase of dreams

re embryo adoption - I think this is true if the embryo is from another couples' cycle and as such then it is kind of 'adoption'
whereas many clinics abroad create the embryos from donor eggs (usually from a back up donor not needed for a particular cycle) and sperm from their sperm bank
in this case I don't think it's quite the same thing as the embryos would not otherwise have existed/there is no other 'family' as such for them to have been born into

for me at least it is not what my twins will think of the donor conception per se which concerns me, I think and hope that they will understand why I did that, it's the anonymity of the donors...by going abroad (for cost and success reasons as mentioned before) I have in effect 'denied' them the chance to find out more about their genetic background and this is the aspect which concerns me...I hope that it will not be an issue for them, that they (like me) see family as the people around you who love and care for you...but only time will tell...

Suitcase
x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

pinkcat - yes, that's right. I think abroad it's mostly (although not exclusively) double donor, whereas in the UK it's more likely to be embryo adoption 

and I agree entirely that all our wonderful children are so very much planned, wanted and loved - I just can't escape the feelings of guilt I have about the anon donor aspect...I need to work on this before I start telling the boys how they came about as I don't want them to pick up on that guilt if I can avoid it   

Suitcase
x


----------



## drownedgirl

Acknowledging your feelings is An important step, suitcase ... And I guess you will gradually find peace with it

I think in a way we are all pathfinders and we will learn as we go along

I had a tiny jolt at the weekend

Had our donors two children to stay and dp put all 5 mobile ones onto our huge shower and took a snap

With their wet hair my de  dd and ds looked the spitting image of donors dd and ds and less like my first ds who is non de

Usually the twins look so much like my ds ... 

But in fact he has a much darker skin tone which suddenly stood out

The pic looks very much like 4 siblings plus ds1

I hope he won't mind somehow, later

When I am dead and gone our donor will prob still be going strong!
N


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## Spaykay

If only we could ask our kids eh!

Kay xxx


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## wrighty2

Hi, what an interesting subject. Hope you dont mind me joining in?! I guess one question is what was discussd between you and the recepient or did you donate to a clinic? Was an agreement signed? I think it would be nice for them to know that you have helped someone else and possibly may have siblings.  I watched an interview  on this morning this weekwitha girl who was born with help of a sperm donor through a clinic and turned out she had approx 14 siblings, she has met some of them and her biological father and she said it weas amazing to do so.What you have done is an amazing thing, something that benefits another person with a wonderful gift, a gift like no other. So I think it would be nice for your children to know that you have done this. You sound a lovely person, pity there isnt more people like you around!! x


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## olivia m

Just thought I'd let everyone on this thread know that I have recently started a blog at http://oliviasview.wordpress.com

It's a mixture of news, personal comment on current topics and debates, thoughts, ideas and reflections on family life.
You might like to have a look. There will be a link from the DCN site on Monday.
Olivia

/links


----------



## LV.

Thought I'd mention a programme that's on More4 on Tuesday at 10pm "Sperm Donor Unknown" about a girl that discovers donor siblings and searches for their donor.


----------



## BroodyChick

Hi LadyV
I just watched this on Ch4OD, fantastic film! Definitely a must-watch for anyone considering/having DI.


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## snoopygirl79

I watched that programme and actually didn't like it at all and thought it might put people off using a donor. I don't want my girls to go looking for their donor when they're older and saying he's their father. Yes, biologically he is, but my DH is their Dad and Father through and through. Yes, he's given us the amazing gift to have children but that's where it ends. We will be open and honest with our girls and if they want to look into the donor when they're 18 and can get more info about him, then we can't stop them but I'm pretty sure he doesn't expect them to come knocking on his door like in this film. 

Maybe I'm wrong but I didn't feel comfortable with this film and the way using donor sperm was portrayed. And yes, I do appreciate that this was before the donors were not allowed to be anonymous but I still didn't like it.


----------



## Spaykay

I didn't see the programme, but also feel that the donor is not the biological father/mother. They are a part of the child's life and if the child wants to find out about them fine, but not father/mother. I don't think donors feel this link either having read accounts.

Kay xxx


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## suitcase of dreams

I haven't seen the program although I have read a couple of reviews and an article about it

Language can be very emotive in these circumstances I think. We attach a certain meaning to 'mother/father/mum/dad' etc and hence we do not want the donors to be called this - we are of course our childrens' parents...and I for one will be making sure I use the word donor and not biological father/mother when I am talking about this with both the boys and with other people

But having said that, we cannot deny that they have a biological/genetic background which is not ours, and I guess what we'll find is that all children are different - some will be very curious about their biological origins and want to seek out their donor(s), others will not be interested at all. And we simply can't predict how our own individual children will turn out. I often wonder with twins, whether one will care more than the other and how I would handle that. My donors are anonymous as I had tx in Czech Rep, so there's little chance of the boys being able to go in search of them - but I do wonder how I would feel if one or both declared that that is what they would want to do, if they had been given the chance...or indeed how I would feel if they were to be angry and bitter that they were not given that chance   

It's a minefield that's for sure. I feel that all I can do is be honest with my two about how they came to be, and how much they were wanted, and are loved, and then we'll just have to see how they feel about their donors as they get older....

Suitcase
x


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## carrie lou

I haven't seen the film but totally agree, a dad/father is the man who brings you up. I think of our donor a lot and think of him as a wonderful, generous thoughtful young man who gave us the most amazing gift but he is NOT the father of my little boy. If Zac wants to contact him in later life, that is entirely his choice but I very much hope he will not think of the donor as his "father" - that is my DH.


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## upsydaisy

Although the word 'father' was used I thought that in every way the film served to highlight how he wasn't a 'father'. Never had been and never would be.  Which made me feel quite sad for him  .  I thought the children's desire to find their half siblings was perfectly understandable and I'd fully support my daughter if she wanted to pursue that.  I'd also have no problems with her finding her donor, some curiosity is only natural.  He will never be a 'father' in the true sense of the word just part of her genetic history which she may or may not want to find out about.  The children in the film all seemed wonderfully grounded individuals and a credit to their true parents.
Upsyxxx


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## GIAToo

Hi, I'm afraid I got bored with the film tbh.  Yes the children seemed wonderfully grounded, but I glazed over a bit when they started saying things like "oh another thing, my donor sibling and I both like to nibble on crackers!"    Wow! what a genetic coincidence!    However, I don't think they saw the donor as their father in ther true sense of the word (i.e. the one who had raised them etc), but for those who didn't have a father (those brought up by two females for example) I think they did see him more that way.  Who knows, we all know how these things are edited.

Like Suitcase I worry about my decision to go for anonymous donors, and throughout the film  I kept thinking about the fact that my child won't be able to look up his/her donor.   

GIA Tooxx


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## upsydaisy

GIAtoo - must admit I fell asleep for 30 mins in the middle   it was a tad long!! 
It was a bit silly how they kept showing the film of her dancing and leaping around, her mums knew he was a dancer so probably encouraged the dancing ! It would have been more relevant if they hadn't known  I'm sure the nature/nurture scientists can't wait to carry out a research project on donor offspring.


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## Spaykay

I just think a  biological father/mother is someone who gives birth tomamchild with initial intention thatbjt is theirs. A donor or surrogate never takesnthe position of mother/father and is a kind and generous provider of life so to speak. However, the genetic origins are important and I will support my LO in whatever journey she wishes to follow. I would never have used a donkr if I hadn't felt I could respect how she joinednour world  even though my only choice was no child or donoe, I still made that choice for her. and boy am I glad now!  

Kay xxx

Kay xxx


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## LV.

Hola all - I finally got around to watching Donor Unknown and had mixed feelings about it. I don't think it was that balanced really seeings as they seemed to focus on the "children" that had been brought up in a 2 mum family, and those that spoke that were from heterosexual parents had been told late, so I don't think it was representative of our family. I think because the main girl followed had been brought up by 2 mums she naturally had curiosity at finding a "father".  My friend's little girl has this too as she's never known her dad so I don't think that's something donor related. I thought it was quite heart warming how excited the donor siblings were to get in touch with each other and I'd be happy to support that but like some of you have already said some of it was a tad tedious in places and I'm not sure if more was made of the similarities, I mean a lot of people love animals don't they?!


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## juju81

I got bored too and turned it over.

From what I did see tho I agree with snoopy. 

My clinic messed up anyway and if I'm honest the only thing I'm sad about is the fact Noah can't access the donor sibling register.


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## mojitomummy

I missed it - thought it was last week and couldn't find it then. May look on ch4od
I think the nature nurture thing is adopted. But it's why I want as few details as possible about donor as I want my child(ren hopefully) to have traits snd characteristics from me and DH and our families rather than say oh that must be from donor.


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## olivia m

I've been away for a few days and it's been interesting coming back to your comments on Donor Unknown.  If any of you have read my blog you'll have seen some of my views about the film.  
But just a word about the language that children may use about their donor.  Our experience at DCN is that once children reach the age of between about 8 and 12 they start to use different words sometimes...often several different terms in the course of one conversation or even one sentence.  The film we made nine years ago called A Different Story shows several DC children and adults talking about their origins and they mixed up language like biological father, real father and donor.  All of them were from heterosexual couple families who felt comfortable with their decisions, had told their children early and had good family relationships, including with their dads.  But as they grew up and went through the stages of understanding about donor conception they experimented with the terms they used.  All the parents had ONLY used the word donor, but the children, once they had minds of their own, needed to find what felt comfortable for them and this changed over time.  Use of language had NO connection with the warmth of relationships in families/with non-genetic parent.  But it did come as a shock to the parents, and we now warn parents that this MAY happen in their family and to that they shouldn't worry unduly about it.  Hope this is helpful.
Olivia


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## carrie lou

Thanks Olivia, that's interesting to know. I would certainly have worried if my little boy used the word "father" in reference to the donor, so good to know that it's "normal"!


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## Spaykay

Thanks Olivia, interesting!

Kay xxx


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## Guest

Just bookmarking


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## lucymorgan

Hi everyone,  i've not posted here before but it looks like it may be the right place.  I feel that I want to find a way of creating possibilities for our little boy to find half siblings / his genetic mother if he wants to later on in his life.  As we went abroad the donor is unknown.  Is anyone else in the same situation and do you have any good suggestions on how I could create links / openings that he could explore if he wants to in years to come ?  

LucyM x


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## Spaykay

Lucy - I too would be interested in this. X


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## olivia m

Hi Lucy and Kay
You could try registering with the American Donor Sibling Registry which has some current listings of clinics in Spain and Czech Republic as well as many other clinics around the world as well as US.  If enough people registered on this site then there would be a chance of making connections with half-siblings in particular, although these links are always going to be more difficult to make with egg donation as female donors make fewer donations than male ones do.  Be sure to list every piece of information you have.  DSR have been so successful in bringing together half-sibs and sometimes donor in the US because everyone has their donor number there.  Unfortunately these are not usually available in Europe.
Good luck
Olivia


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## sally60

Hi,
Related to the issue of half siblings and contact - does anyone know where I might get information related to managing this - things to consider .... what age to introduce the idea to your children.... Potential pitfalls etc. Our 4 year old twins were conceived with DS from the US and via the sperm bank I am now in cursory contact with 4 families with children conceived using the same donor. (from these 4 families alone my girls have 6 half siblings all the children between 1 and 4!) The mother are now all connected via ******** and as such have shared pictures of our children but, while its fascinating and I think maybe my children might appreciate contact in the future, I'm also a bit wary that I might be 'opening pandora's box' before my children have had a chance to decide exactly what, if any, contact they want with these other families? I admit I feel somewhat protected by distance and the limited nature of our contact so far but I would be quite keen to read about the experience of other donor conceived children who have met their half siblings and get advice on things to consider? 
Is anyone else in contact with half sibs families?

Lucy


----------



## hopefull LM

hello

me and my wondeful dp have just been told we will have to use donor sperm as dp has nothing
we are happy with this all we want is to be a family but do we tell our close family and would you tell baby i am not ashamed if this i am very grateful there are some wonderful men who do this and wonderful women who give us eggs to have familys with out them where would we be i just feel a little worried 
and it has been a lot to take it . it would be great to speak with people who are in the same boat or who have familys by ds already

thanks for reading

love Lee xxx


----------



## pinkcat

Hi there,

We have 1 gorgeous son from donor sperm and have told only close family ie. parents/brothers/sisters but no one else. We are certainly not ashamed but feel that it is a private family matter and not something to be talked about with just anyone. I suppose that we have the idea that when our son starts talking about it himself then more people will know....

It's a very personal thing and something you have to think carefully about. Not only about who you tell but also when. We told our families as soon as it became a probability that donor sperm would be needed, well before we even started treatment...some people wait until they are pregnant or even until the baby is born. In hindsight I wish we had waited just a bit longer before telling, we hadn't quite got our own heads around it and had to deal with all the questions and comments from family too which wasn't easy.

We are going to tell our son as he grows up, I think it will fit in along side the usual "where do babies come from" conversations. I have a picture book called "before I was born" from x,y and me in America that explains things for a young child, and the DC network also does one called "my story".

The DC network has loads of advise on this and there are sticky threads above about "telling" and also not "telling" that you can have a look at and join in.


----------



## olivia m

Hi Lucy
We have several families in DC Network who have contact with half siblings, some in the States and others in the UK.  Do join us to be in touch with them.
Olivia


----------



## hopefull LM

thank you very much for your reply

its nice to know i am not alone and hear how other people cope 
you must be a very proud mummy i will have a look on them websites and i agree we are going to tell my family today 

thanks again love Lee xx


----------



## Rachfins

Hi Lee

It's personal choice but I would recommend DC network as pinkcat said. We are about to start DIUI and went to a perperation for DC parenthood workshop that they put on. Gives you a chance to meet others in a similar situation and talk through whether to tell or not to tell and who to tell or not tell. It is confidential and just a good place to talk through thoughts and ideas. Helped me to see that telling a child about their origins is the best way forward (my personal choice). All our family know and a few friends. I haved no problems telling anyone. DH has problems telling friends but this is more to do with him being non-obstructive azoospermic.

Come and join us on the Anyone else using donor sperm Part 70 thread. Lots of lovely ladies giving lots of support to people using donor sperm.

Rachfins x


----------



## hopefull LM

hi rachfins

thanks for your reply its nice to talk to other people in the same boat
i am going to look on dc network when my dp gets home from we so we can look at it together
this is the route we are taking as we want a family so much and will complete our home
my dp has the same as yours so we will never have babies naturally 

thanks and good luck love lee xx


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## Betty-Boo

Hopefull have merged your thread with another that is full of support regarding what to do.


Mini xx


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## carrie lou

Hi Lee, we have a baby boy conceived with donor sperm too. Like Pinkcat I feel it is not something that absolutely everyone needs to know; we have told our parents, brothers, sister and two very close friends. We don't feel ashamed or embarrassed at all but think it should be up to our son when he is old enough to decide who else should know. We are definitely going to tell our little boy how he was conceived. I think if I was donor conceived, I would want to know about it, so our little boy will. It would be awful if he found out some other way and felt we had been lying to him, so we decided to be honest with him. We have the "My Story" book from DCN and intend to start reading it to him from as young an age as possible so he will never remember a time when he didn't know, rather than sitting him down one day and dropping the bombshell! The My Story book also makes telling easier for us as parents because it's just like reading any other story book to him, it feels easy and natural.


You're right that it's a lot to get your head around so take our time to think about who you want to know - once you have told, you can't un-tell! Do have a look at the Donor Sperm thread as there are lots of very supportive ladies there going through the same thing. Wishing you lots of luck on your journey - sperm donors are wonderful people and have given us the greatest gift! I'm sure you will get your family soon too.


----------



## sally60

Thanks Olivia,

I've been a member of the DCN in the past but didn't see much on the subject of contact with half sibs - but I may have been looking in the wrong places so will have another look.

Lee, I agree with the other comments so far and the position you suggest yourself - its a private matter but not something we are ashamed of. As such we told close family we were considering it and also confirm we had used DIVF when we discovered I was pregnant, we also attended the DCN "telling and Talking' workshop after our daughters were born. Its true for my DH the issue is certaily not shame at our daughters being concieved by donor sperm - but still my husband find it difficult to tell people about his NOA - I hadn't thought about that before but they are clearly separate issues - but the stigma attached to one sadly makes it more difficult to talk about the other.... We haven't regretted our decision for a second - our children are a delight and my husband is an excellent devoted father. 

We have to remind ourselves of the need to talk about it with the girls because otherwise we neither of us really think about it any more.

Lucy


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## olivia m

Hi Lucy
There is increasing interest from DCN members around half sibs.  We had a big presentation on the topic at one of our national meetings about 18 months ago.  Two 13 year olds who had found that they were half-sibs spoke as well as a donor conceived adult who had found a half-brother via UK DonorLink.  We produced one of our Journals around the topic too.  On our Forum there is a place where parents can register any information they have about their child's donor and where they conceived, in the hope of bringing together half-sibs.  Do re-join us if you would like to take advantage of this.

It is helpful for children if parents bring up the topic from time to time when it feels appropriate.  This gives permission to children to ask questions in between those times if something occurs to them.  If the issue is 'on the family agenda' so to speak then it can be treated in a matter of fact way, like anything else.
Olivia


----------



## *ALF*

Olivia and Lucy - I have a few thoughts/questions about half siblings that I hope you maybe able to help me with;

Our DD was conceived using sperm from US. We had treatment at a CARE clinic and used some of the american sperm that they shipped over in Sept/Oct 07.  When DD was 6 months we asked CARE if they had had any other successful pregnancies using this donor, can't remember whether they said we made the 9th pregnancy or there were 9 others, anyway he has or very nearly has met his 10 families in the UK. So my first question;
- if CARE imported enough sperm for 10 families do you know if he would still have been available for use from the US sperm bank or does the 10 families limit apply to the US aswell.  If he was still available for use in the US then DD may well have more donor siblings in the US.

I'm a little confused as to what is and isn't open to us;
- with the DCN running their UKdonorlink does that mean there is nothing stopping me and DH seeking out DD donor siblings before she reaches 18 and is entitled to info from the HFEA? 

TBH I'm not entirely sure how I feel about seeking out donor siblings - obviously we always knew that any child we had would more than likely have donor siblings.  As I said we know that she does have at least 8 donor siblings within the UK. Up to now we have said we would let DD know this is the case and help her if she ever wanted to get in contact.  However, reading what you've both said about contact I'm wondering whether it is right or not for us to pursue things now if we can
- is it in DD's best interest for us to make contact before she can be involved in the decision? 
- am I just wanting to do it out of my own curiosity? 
- do any children actually say they are not interested in donor siblings? Olivia, have you come across this at all?
- if we've already made contact then DD decides she doesn't want to have contact we could have a problem
- BUT if she is bought up knowing about donor siblings all along then she won't know any different so is likely to just accept it as that is the way it is......

If any of that made any sense then any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks
ALF


----------



## northernmonkey

Lee - my dh and I have been blessed with two beautiful daughters thanks to a donor's amazing gesture.  Our parents and siblings know about our journey to conceive the girls, along with my best friend, but other than that we have kept it to ourselves.  Like some of the other ladies say, we are in no way ashamed of using a donor but ultimately we want it to be up to our daughters whether they discuss it with anyone else, and when.  Good luck with your journey.   

alf - yours are really good questions, I'd be interested to hear people's opinions too.

Similarly, dh and I have only very basic info on our daughters' donor and have always said that we would obtain any further info if and when either of the girls decided that they wanted to find out more about him.  However, recently I began to wonder whether we should ask for the information from our clinic now incase the girls begin to imagine their donor as some fantasy figure rather than the normal bloke that he probably is.  What do people think?


----------



## olivia m

Really, Really good questions ALF and ones that are debated in DCN all the time.

First of all with regard to US donors.  It is highly likely that there are other half-sibs in the US.  The HFEA makes sure that no more than 10 FAMILIES are created using the same donors sperm in the UK (so often many more than 10 children) but as far as we can tell, do not monitor the number of half-sibs in the US.  If you wanted to trace these children then the American Donor Sibling Registry would be the way to do it.  In fact, you could probably find them whilst they are still young children, whilst in the UK any child of yours will have to wait until 18 to contact half-sibs (by mutual consent).  I wonder if you have a donor number.  A lot of people with US donors do have it. 
Just to clarify, DCN does not run UK Donor Link.  This organisation, currently under threat of closure by the government, is for people conceived before August 1991.  DCN has a SibLink register accessible as part of our private Forum.

Many parents, particularly those in heterosexual couples, have very mixed feelings about tracing half-sibs.  They often worry about the integrity of their own family and what the relationships would be like with a family they have not 'chosen' to be friends with, but where children have genetic connections.  The 13 year olds I mentioned in my post above are in lone mother and lesbian mother families - both these family groupings tend to be more open to and welcoming of half-sibs.

Once children realise that there may be half-sibs - and they rarely come to this conclusion by themselves until they are over 9 or 10 - they are often very intrigued by them and interested in contact, but this is not inevitable.  In fact our son is not in the slightest bit interested, despite his sister being very curious.  He is grateful for having been given life but says that the family he knows is quite enough for him!  One the whole girls do tend to be more interested than boys, but this is a gross generalisation and I have certainly known boys who are curious and would like contact.

I have spoken to some parents of children who have made contact with half-sibs and they feel that it is helpful for the children to know each other from a young age, so that the relationship isn't too 'special' somehow - it becomes ordinary through regular contact and can either continue or fade, as inevitably some childhood friendships do, as the children grow older.  I suspect, myself, that some contact is likely to continue, even if it is not regular, simply because of the unusual circumstances of each having the same donor.  I have no evidence for this yet, however.

Good luck with thinking this all through.  It's not straightforward.
Olivia


----------



## LiziBee

Wow, it's been a long time since anyone posted here. Hope everyone is ok.
Just wanted to share that I bit the bullet and contacted the clinic to get the details on our donor. The receptionist I spoke to was new and didn't know what to do so she put me on hold and then our embryologist came on the line to talk to me, it was great to know that my name had been recognised after all this time. Anyway they were able to tell me the details I wanted height, eye colour etc. as well as how many other pregnancies have been made with his sperm (4 it turns out plus his own 3 children, with my 2 that makes 9).
I've typed up the details and stuck the paper in the back of their 'My story' books.
(I still want to do my own (slightly more grown up) version of My Story for them but as yet haven't finished it.)
Anyway, it wasn't as gut wrenching to do as I'd been expecting and it was really lovely to reconnect with a member of staff I considered to be a friend by the end of the DIVF/DIUI process. I am reassured by the fact that giving this information to them while they are young will stop it being a shock when they get older (especially the half genetic siblings part). And while it wasn't traumatic I still needed to share with you my friends because try as they might my family don't really get it.

Love to you all,
Lizi.x


----------



## LiziBee

BTW, didn't tell you the trigger that made me do this! Stupid really but the girls LOVE ScoobyDoo and in the newest episode Fred finds out that the Mayor isn't his 'real father' (their words) and goes off to find his 'real parents' (again their words). Oh the dangers of letting kids watch TV that you haven't vetted first! Anyway I was so worried about what might come up I decided to bite the bullet and contact the clinic and get some positive messages with our chosen terminology (ie. NOT 'real') in first. Turns out however that that episode was the final one of this season and they apparently haven't started work on the next season yet so by the time that hits our screens the girls may well have out grown it (I hope!)
Lizi.x


----------



## olivia m

Great to hear your experience LiziBee and I hope others find it reassuring.  Also a good lesson in how you can never know what is going to turn up on the TV (or any other) screen.  Do keep us up to date with how 'telling' goes in your family.
Olivia


----------



## ElsieMay

Hi All

I am not sure if this is the right place to post but I had a query about telling my 3 year old of her double donation origins.  I am single so read the 'Why dont I have a Daddy?' book and drop into the text that Mummy also had help from a lady because Mummys cells didnt work very well.  However my daughter still seems completely oblivious to her origins and doesn even listen when I try and talk to her about it (only once a month or every other month to I dig out the books).  The male donation is relatively easy as there is no Dad so a donor had to have been used but I am having terrible difficulty in explaining egg donation to her in a way she understands.  I have recently used somebodies suggestion of telling her she was given a special gift / seed from a Dr in Spain before she was born that Mummy looked after because Mummys seeds were poorly and that the seed grew into her ......

Sorry completely struggling to find a 3 year old friendly story that makes sense and is not criptic.

Can anybody help?

EM


----------



## drownedgirl

EM: mine are not interested either. My DS1 started asking me about us having another baby just after we started the ED, actually .. so he was just over 4. He was quite interested in it then.. different personality maybe

What mine do like to hear is how they grew side by side and M tried to get born feet first.. so perhaps leap ahead a bit and talk about the birth a little, about how she first met her granny, aunts etc (print out some pictures?) then later on work back a bit or just respond to questions (the inevitable 'but how did I get IN to your tummy, mummy?!)

Or put a set of pics on your phone... a scan pic, a fat tummy etc.. and show her, regularly?


----------



## LiziBee

EM - my girls actually show very little interest too. We go through the stories and I mention it at nearly every chance I get but mostly their reaction is minimal which in a way is what I am aiming for. Something that is 'no big deal', that isn't scary but just normal to them because that shows they are well adjusted to the information.
BTW Rosa (aged 5 and a half) has started to take an interest in one of my junior science books "Cells are us" and I think it's giving her a great deal more insight into what effect donation might have on her life (e.g. what she looks like and other genetic factors). I am a science teacher by training so I tend to have these sorts of books around!
Lizi.x


----------



## Kerry Crabtree

just wanted to share- my photo book arrived today and i intend to read it to cora most nights! i love love love it!

http://www.photobox.co.uk/creation/989349175

/links


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## LittleFriend

Kerry that book is beautiful and bought a little tear to my eye. I wish you, DP and your beautiful DS all the happiness in the world.


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## carrie lou

Kerry I just wanted to say what a beautiful book! I've been wanting to make something like that for my little boy, think I might follow your example and finally do it!


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## posybluebird

Kerry,

that is absolutely gorgeous and I am quite tearful! She is beautiful and I wish you and your family every happiness.x


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## pinkbabe

Hi Kerry, your book is absolutely lovely, i have just been crying   ....just super, and how gorgeous is Cora! Are you publishing it to sell, for people to add their own photo's etc? i would be very interested if you are   


Karen xx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

i can't see the book. there is nothing there!


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## Kerry Crabtree

You can buy a book with text only or as a download from lulu.com the idea is that you can stuck photos or the child can draw their own pics, or just copy the text into an album like the photo box one I used or you can buy my copy from photo box

Glad you like it I have tried to get it published properly in the past but no publishers wanted it!


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## pinkbabe

Thanks Kerry, gosh how ignorant are they not wanting to take you up on that, its amazing! xx


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## pinkbabe

Yeah Pinkcat, thats just crossed my mind too, just this minute, maybe we could add in superman or something    xx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

ahh its lovely!


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## Kerry Crabtree

Ill have a think ladies and see if I can come up with a sperm donor version!


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## pinkbabe

Thanks Kerry x


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Ooh yes please!!


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## Kerry Crabtree

not promising anything quickly ladies but ill try!


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

I always think of our donor as the magical mystery man.


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Hazel - love it   

so for double donor users like me my boys would have both a fairy godmother and a magical mystery man   
I keep meaning to do their book but haven't got round to it yet, shall def be taking some ideas from yours Kerry - it's fab   

Suitcase
x


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## olivia m

Hi Pinkcat
Your experience is not unusual.  What is not generally known is that clinics have to pass certain information on to the HFEA, but there is often further info, above and beyond that which is required by the HFEA, that the clinic retains.  VERY occasionally this can include a 'photo of the donor as a baby.  So it can occur that the info in the two places does not appear to match up.  I expect you are talking to Emer O'Toole  who is very understanding and helpful.  

Mistakes have also been known to be made...people just given someone elses info through human error.  Hope it gets sorted out.
Olivia


----------



## Spaykay

I must must must get organised with telling EG. She hasn't asked for her special book in a while and I still haven't made her photo one dohhhhhh!

Kay xxx


----------



## olivia m

Hi Pinkcat
I wouldn't worry about not pestering Emer.  This is obviously playing on your mind and you want it cleared up.  As long as you keep it polite (as I am sure you are) I wouldn't worry about how often you contact her.
Best of luck
Olivia


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

we've told exactly the same people.    some friends know, others do not. 

I'm waiting to see what new baby looks like and if he really does look totally different then we might have to think again. 

Like you i would like DS to be the first to be told. The people that dont know live far away anyway so not much of a problem. 

There was a point when DS wanted to take his telling book out with him, as its his fave book     Hmm that would of been a talking point in the supermarket


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## Spaykay

MM - some people say DS looks like DD...they do have half their genes in common after all...but actually they're total opposites. DD is like DH and DS like my family. I can also honeslty truely say that I feel no different about the two of them and adore them both equally and hardly ever think about how they joined our world 

Kay xxx


----------



## carrie lou

Pinkcat we have also told only our close family (think some of them, judging by certain remarks they've made, have even forgotten  ) Like you I want Zac to decide when he's old enough who else he tells. Personally I feel by then they will have got to know him and love him as part of our family and if he chooses to tell them, I don't think it will be a big deal - more like, oh how interesting! That's my hope anyway  Maybe as it gets closer to the time though, I might start to feel more anxious about it. Try not to worry too much


----------



## Spaykay

I've told close famioly and a few friends (mainly those struggling to get pg) and the general reaction is 'oh, ok' and nothing else!  Some are a bit daft and don't really understand, but few. I too want telling to be DD's choice really but not such a huge responsibility for her that noone knows.

Kay xxx


----------



## juju81

Pinkcat   I dont really know what to say   the majority of people we know know he truth. A lot of people who know he truth have forgotten the truth! I was prepared to keep it to ourselves but nick said he didn't care, he 'wasn't ashamed' and didnt see why we had to hide it. I mean obviously we don't just say "hi, I'm Julie and nicks not Noah's bio dad" but a lot of people knew we struggled and I generally comes up when we talk about the treatment! It's never mentioned anymore. It's very personal and if u feel u want to tell more than do it. Don't be worried about what people think xx


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Lots of people around us know and I am sure I have told some people who are now insisting that C looks like the both of us, when he really takes after me and my mum and dad. Of course I have no idea what the donor contributes so I don't ''see'' it IYKWIM. Other people see what they want to.
I am quite open about our treatment, but for some reason I haven't shared it with my new mum friends. I guess I might one day and there are aunts and uncles of DH who I have not told as I figure it is DH's family and he can tell them if he wants. I am never likely to have that depth of conversation with them.


----------



## ceci.bee

pinkcat I know what you mean - we have up to now told some close friends and family but not broadcast the news if you know what I mean. We decided the info was Joshi's and people close to him would emerge and we would tell as and when it seemed appropriate. Like mini I also haven't told our baby group friends - mostly because here in Malawi it is such a strange concept and I am not sure how it would be received and we are leaving when Joshi is 3 so it wont be an issue. I think you tell who you want when the time feels right and if it doesn't feel right then it doesn't need to be told. we will tell teachers/childminders etc as Joshi gets older -we just want him to be cool with it and for it not to be an issue - if anyone with older kids on here knows the secret of that then please let me know! Joshi is generally a pretty chilled out person so far so we hope it stays that way!!

good luck
xx


----------



## olivia m

Hi Pinkcat
I am so sorry that the 'telling other people' business is getting you so stressed.  I am sure it can be worked out and I do encourage you not to worry too much about it.  I am particularly sorry you had such a horrible time being forced to share the information by your MIL when you were not ready to do so.  It guess this experience makes you more anxious and cautious.

First of all, a few things.  You absolutely do not have to tell everyone about how your babe was conceived.  The only people it is really helpful to have know are those people Josh is likely to have close to him in life as he grows up.  Those people he might want to read him a story or might be around if he mentions the 'kind man' who helps make babies, when he sees a baby on TV or in a picture book.  Even if they have recently had a My or Our Story book read to them small children rarely talk about sperm or egg donation to anyone else as, on the whole, it is not a topic they are interested in.  And if they do mention it to other children, they have no idea what is being talked about so change the subject.  
It is also sometimes difficult for parents to remember that information about donor conception is not 'bad news', it is just information.  We have no evidence so far within DC Network that donor conceived children mind others knowing about their origins before they do.  In fact, having to tell others who are close to them might feel very strange to a child who would wonder why they did not know already.  They could assume that this was something odd, different or unusual if their relatives or god-parents did not know.  Children do not have our history.  They are starting with a clean slate and being donor conceived is simply part of the story of how they came into the world.  The angst belongs to us, not to them...but it would be easy to pass this on by behaving in a way that made it a big deal.  And oddly and counter-intuitively the way to make it a big deal is by not telling others who are close to Josh.

Obviously you and your DH must decide how to proceed from here, and you know these people best, but if I were you I might just get in touch - could be a 'phone call or email (probably not a text) - with relatives and god-parents and just let them know the facts in a straight-forward matter-of-fact way.  If they know you had some help to have Josh, then you could hang the info on that..."You remember we had some help to have J, well that help was from a sperm donor.  Happy to talk about it further if you want to, but we wanted you to know as we will be starting to talk with J soon about his beginnings and we wanted your help in backing up anything he says or reading the story book we have about how he was made with him".  People will be flattered that you have asked for their help and as Josh is still so young hopefully you won't encounter resentment about not being told before.  You might want to let them know about our website so that they can see all the stories on it and realise how usual it is these days to share this information with children and that there are resources there to help with it.
If you are able to do this in a calm, matter-of-fact way then others will take their cue from you and treat the information in the same way.

I hope this is helpful and that the HFEA get back to you soon.
Olivia


----------



## GIAToo

Hi everyone,

I am having exactly the same dilemma, not least 'cos half the time I can't remember who I've told and who I haven't!    I happily tell anyone abut using sperm donor as I'm single, but haven't told everyone about egg donor.  Like others, even those who know can forget and/or insist he looks like me, but when others make comments about whether or not he looks like me, I feel deceitful    .  Of course i have no clue what the sperm donor looks like so I can always say that my baby looks like THAT donor, but like you pinkcat, I don't want NOT telling to come and bite me on the   .  I will be telling S, but interesting what DCN says abut putting the onus on the child to tell others    Will have to look into that and maybe that will help me decide next steps.  

Of those that I have told, most people couldn't give two hoots, or think it is interesting etc.  I also want to be honest so I don't give false hope to those my age who also may not be able to use their own eggs ultimately, IYKWIM.

It's all so complex eh!

Hugs to all
GIA Too xxx


----------



## GIAToo

Olivia - our posts crossed.  I have a very large extended family who are all quite close (20 of us going away for a weekend this month and 20 more going to Corfu together).  The only people in my family who know my full story (i.e about egg donation) are my parents and a cousin and an aunt.  I do want to tell all, but my Aunt particularly feels I shouldn't tell anyone (not even the child!!) and it worries me that she feels so strongly about it.  However, what you said about the child finding out that other people DON'T know makes sense, so need to sort these thing out sooner rather than later methinks.  I was thinking of just dropping it into conversation....  ... but thinking now that perhaps I should send an email.....the thought of which scares me for some reason!    Ho-hum...
GIA Tooxxx


----------



## olivia m

Hi GIAtoo
Who knows what is in your aunt's history that makes her feel so strongly, but it is her stuff, not yours, so you may have to explain to her, gently but clearly, that you are quite sure that telling IS the right thing to do. 

Good luck with your email.  You too may want to mention the DCN site to relatives so they can check out for themselves the value of 'telling' children.

Thank you also for not wanting to mislead other women your age about the potential for them to conceive without donor help.
Olivia


----------



## carrie lou

I have also encountered some attitudes about telling the child. One day at my parents' house I happened to mention something about Zac knowing how he was conceived. My dad looked very surprised and said, but HOW will he know?! I replied, we'll tell him of course! I think it hadn't even occurred to him that it was something we will discuss openly with Zac when he is old enough. I think among his generation, it was just not the done thing to talk about things like this. Until quite recently it was considered best for adopted children not to know they were adopted (I know not quite the same issue, but just an example). It seems to be a relatively new idea that telling is in the child's best interests.


----------



## Spaykay

Yeh, a few people have asked me 'Why are you telling EG?' Ermmmm....because it's her right to know basically without even going into the rights and wrongs.

GIAToo - all your what ifs reflect mine totally!

kay xxx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

GIAToo - same here on many counts. I've told most of my close friends and quite a few family that I used both egg and sperm donor, but I couldn't say 100% who I have told and who I haven't. Not because I've been 'careless' about who I've told but just because it's been a long journey to get here and over the past 3+yrs I've talked to so many people about it all that now I simply can't be quite sure who knows the 'full' story and who doesn't

the people who matter (close friends, family, godparents etc) all know although it's funny how quickly we forget and comment on things which can't be genetically true (how like me/my sister/my nieces/nephew etc the boys are)

my new mum friends know I used a sperm donor - being single it's easy to bring that up in conversation - but not about egg donor. Not because I don't want to tell them but just because the opportunity hasn't arisen, it's not really important in the conversations we have, and I don't know if they are going to be longer term friends or just people I spend time with right now because we have babies the same age IFKWIM...

boys will definitely know, just got to get my act together on how/when/what to tell them etc - still working on that part, along with how to explain it all to 7yr old niece
most of the time I'm too busy with work, 2 babies and the rest of it to even think about it, but I know I must make time at some point   

good luck pinkcat, hope you manage to work things out with your family soon

am sure we'll all figure it out in our own good time   
Suitcase
x


----------



## olivia m

Hi all
Two things...undoubtedly people do forget, even those close to you, and make remarks about likenesses that cannot be as a result of genetics...but nurture is very powerful and children pick up mannerisms, speech patterns, ways of holding themselves and most important of all, values.

If I can ever be of any help or support to anyone here only too glad to do so.  Just post or pm me.
Olivia


----------



## Spaykay

Just tonight someone visited us and said how the 2 kids are a real mix of the both of us and aren't genetics just amazing how kids are like puzzles of their parents. I was giggling inside coz it really shows that people will really see what they want to see!

Kay xxx


----------



## MandMtb

Hi,

I hope I am posting in the right place?!

I got information about our son's sperm donor today from the HFEA, most of which we already know from our clinic, but obviously we were also told about genetic half siblings and it got me thinking...

We plan to be open with J from very early on, obviously he has 2 mummies so at some stage he will know we didnt actually biologically create him together  and feel okay about sharing information about his conception and about his donor, but today I started to wonder about how we would go about sharing information about his genetic half siblings, I was going to make a story book for him and mention that his donor also helped other families to have babies, as I feel at such an early age this is all that is needed. But at what stage or do I tell him that he does have genetic half siblings? What do I call them as brothers and sisters doesnt feel right? Do we share how many we know about? What if he asks when older to find out how many he has at this stage? As you can tell my head is spinning with questions and would welcome some input. Also am I right in assuming J could not contact any half siblings until he and they are 18 years? 

S x


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Isn't there a donor sibling registry. Can you contact others earlier through them?

The thing that I find most odd is that the donor's own family can't contact all their half siblings.

If you get the information from the HFEA can it be updated later? Of course babies might be born later than the information available now.

I have to say I keep forgetting about the half siblings.

I guess to a small child you have to say they are half brothers and sisters otherwise they won't understand it, but then you have to point out that they live with other mummies and daddies.

I don't know, I am interested to hear some more perspectives.


----------



## upsydaisy

MandMtb - I'm also really interested in this issue  . My daughter will be an only child so I can already envisage that she would find the prospect of half siblings very exciting, one of the reasons why I haven't included it in 'her story'. If I'm honest I find it quite exciting! mind you the thought of them all finding each other as hormonally charged teenagers is a bit worrying   It would be wonderful if there could be some sort of contact (if only letterbox) between them as they grow up. The DCN have a small sibling register and the international Donor Sibling Registry has listings for most UK/European countries. The latter involves a subscription which doesn't seem worth it when I'm more likely to bump into half siblings in Sainsbury's  . I used a small local clinic with it's own donor's. I've met two people who used the same donor as me (without success). There is also the prospect that my daughter's half siblings were probably born to couples who may not intend to tell the child about the use of a donor  Lots and lots to think about. I really hope that in the future she does get to meet some of them, in her position I know I'd be very curious.
Upsyxxx


----------



## olivia m

Hi all
Half-sibs is a very interesting topic indeed.  Informal research with older DC children and adults in DC Network shows MUCH more interest in half-sibs than in donors.  I think they feel less threatening for everyone.  I know our daughter would love to meet another person around her age who was conceived from the same donor.  As they would be close in age there is much more likelihood that they would share culture and interests.  The donor could turn out to be a man she felt was completely alien - or someone she resembled closely - both of these being slightly scary prospects.  Bearing in mind that our children are 28 and 25, consciousness about half-sibs was just not around as they were growing up.  We didn't mention the possibility of them being there, not because we were worried about it but because we really did not think about them ourselves.  It was only when a journalist asked our daughter, then aged 14, about how she felt about others conceived from the same donor, that she realised they could be there.  She was very excited at the prospect and has registered with UK Donor Link, giving a DNA sample (as have I) so that she could potentially be matched with other DC adults on the registry.  Seven years on, no luck yet.

Just to clarify about registers.  UK Donor Link is only open to those people who were conceived or who donated before the HFEA register came into being in August 1991.  The HFEA currently holds the register of recipients, donors and children from this date.  Parents of under 18 year olds can find out the number of half-siblings, their gender and years of birth, plus any other non-identifying information that they did not get at the time.  The older children are, the more likely that there is some more of this info available.  If children were conceived before April 2005, then parents can also check if the donor has re-registered as 'willing to be identifiable'.  At age 16 children can ask the HFEA for the information that their parents have been entitled to (above).  At 18 they can register their interest in being in touch with half-siblings by mutual consent.  Information about the numbers of children, gender and year of birth is constantly being updated as additional births occur (maximum of ten families).

One of the problems with finding half-siblings in the UK is that two years ago the HFEA banned clinics from giving recipients of donated eggs or sperm the number that the clinic assigns to donors.  One of the initial problems was that some clinics were using the same numbering system so a particular number didn't necessarily relate to the same donor.  They rectified this with a central numbering system at the HFEA, but then decided to stop giving out the numbers as they felt that this might facilitate recipients and donors finding each other accidentally on web forums such as this one!  Some people with older children do have donor numbers from a time when HFEA did allow clinics to give this info to recipients.  This means that matching has to happen from donor descriptions and women having used the same clinic.  At DCN we do have on a private members only part of our forum, a SibLink registry where people can put info about when and where their children were conceived and descriptions of the donor.  Matches have been made this way and indeed quite incidentally at DC Network meetings as well.  Most of these matches involve single women or lesbian families where parents are quite keen for their children to make links with others and make themselves open to receiving this information.  The children who have been matched are all under 14 and seem to be doing very well and keeping up contacts with their half-sibs.  There is also the US based, but international, Donor Sibling Registry.  I checked recently and this has many more UK registrants than when I last looked about a year ago, but it is still heavily US biased.  Almost everyone in the US has their donor number.

Sharing information with young children about the possibility of half-sibs - and somehow the term brother or sister seems too emotionally laden to use before an older child or young person chooses to use the term him or herself - is an interesting one.  I think I'd be inclined to do what MandMtb are doing and just mention from time to time that the donor has helped other mummies and daddies have a baby too and wait for the questions when the child feels ready to ask.
Olivia


----------



## carrie lou

I'm very curious to find out whether Z has any half siblings. I'm sure he must do as we used an American donor and I understand they're not limited to 10 families in the USA as they are here. I just want to be able to tell him if he asks when he's older. But DH is very reluctant and I'm not sure he wants to know anything about it. I think I should wait until he comes round to the idea a bit more...


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Xytex are limited to 10 famillies Carrie


----------



## suitcase of dreams

think if you have your tx in the UK, then sperm donor is limited to 10 families regardless where the sperm is sourced 
I'm pretty sure that to be used in the UK it must comply with UK regulations including the 10 family limit
Olivia - correct me if I'm wrong on this   

of course if you had tx in the US, or indeed in other parts of Europe etc, then it's a different matter...

Suitcase
x


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Xytec is limited to 10 families, but is the donor stopped from registering with 10 agencies?
Is there any national restriction on how many families can be created in the US?

The HFEA does mean that the person in the UK is limited to creating 10 donor conceived families.


----------



## carrie lou

Oh I know the donor is limited to 10 UK families, I meant he will probably have been used by more than that in the USA. I'm not sure if the USA authorities put a restriction on how many families can use the same donor? So as well as potentially 9 other UK families, Z will have American half-sibs as well.


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

who knows??!    I haven't a flipping clue! Its all a mystery to me!    so confusing!


----------



## suitcase of dreams

hmm, I thought they couldn't have US half sibs as well because if the donor is used in the UK they can only contribute to 10 families overall anywhere...but I may be wrong on that
the reason I thought it is because I looked into importing from ESB in Copenhagen and they charge a significant extra fee for import to UK to cover the fact that the donor is limited to 10 families in total
but as you say, how you police it if they are signed up to several agencies, I simply don't know!
Suitcase
x


----------



## *ALF*

It would be good to somehow get some clarification on this as I was on the understanding that even if a donor has reached 10 families in the UK there could still be half siblings in the US.  Our clinic imported enough sperm from our donor to create the 10 families allowed in this country, but I was under the impression that this would have no influence on whether this donor was also used in the US so therefore the potential for my DD to have half siblings in the US.


----------



## suitcase of dreams

perhaps Olivia can help?


----------



## olivia m

Hi guys
I wish I could be really definitive on the issue of whether US sperm donors who agree to be identifiable for the British 'market' are actually limited to 10 families overall, including donations in the States.  I have tried to talk with the HFEA about this in the past and received equivocal responses.  To be honest I think it is reasonable to assume that US donors are likely to have contributed to families in their own country as well as a maximum of 10 in the UK.  There is NO national limit in the US for number of donor offspring or families.  Clinics can apply their own limit but most don't.  As far as I can tell there is nothing to stop US donors from registering and donating at several clinics.  In many ways the US is the Wild West of donor conception with NO rules that apply across the nation.  It is also likely that US donors are paid more than expenses for their donations as well.  The HFEA tends to turn a blind eye to donations made outside the UK as long as donors agree to go on to their registry for future identifiability and health checks equivalent to UK ones are carried out.
Sorry not to be able to help more.
Olivia


----------



## carrie lou

Thank you Olivia, that's pretty much what I thought but it's good to have confirmation


----------



## Yxx

Hi

Does anyone know if it can be either parent that fills in the HFEA form to get the non-identifying details about our egg donor or does it have to be the patient who underwent treatment at the clinic?

Am hoping DH can do it as much eaiser to verify his identity.  My passport (and obviously my birth certificate) is in my maiden name but to supply my mariage certificate is complicated as the official one is in swedish but we do have a certified translation of it too.

Supplying both has worked with lots of other companies when I changed my name after marriage just worried if it would satisfy the HFEA too.

Thanks for any help.
Yxx


----------



## olivia m

Hi Yxx
I assume your DH completed all the partners forms at the clinic so his info should be on the HFEA's records too.  I don't know for certain but would imagine that it would not be a problem for him to apply for the information.
Olivia


----------



## GIAToo

Hi Everyone,  I just wanted to share what happened at the weekend.  As I mentioned on here, I wanted to tell my extended family about how my LO was conceived.  They all knew about the sperm donor, but not the egg donor.  This weekend about 20 of us went away for the weekend and  decided that I would tell them all face to face rather than by email.  This was still only half the family!  Anyway, I started with a cousin and I got quite emotional, but I had a bit of dutch courage and then told all the others over the course of the evening.  By this time they had all fallen in love with S anyway   .  I explained why I thought it was important for S to know and therefore why it was important for them to know.  They ALL said individually that they couldn't care less about it and that S was my baby and they loved him regardless.  I knew they would, well I suspected it, but it was such a relief to get it out in the open. 

Hope everyone is well 
GIA Tooxx


----------



## upsydaisy

lovely, lovely story GIAtoo.  It sounds like you have a wonderful (and very big!) family who will be a huge source of love and support for you and S.  I know it must have taken a lot of courage (dutch or otherwise  ) to do that.  They love S because he's your baby   


Upsyxxx


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## carrie lou

That's lovely to hear GIAtoo. Well done for telling them, it must have been daunting but I bet you are glad you did it now and how nice to know how much they all love S.


----------



## pinkcat

Well done GIAtoo


----------



## Spaykay

Well done GIAToo. So gkad they're supporting you.

Kay xxx


----------



## GIAToo

Thanks ladies    
GIA Tooxx


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## ceci.bee

lovely story GIAtoo we had the same reaction when we told DH's extended family

xx


----------



## olivia m

The Nuffield Council on Bio-Ethics are running a year long enquiry into the ethics of telling or not-telling children about donor conception. They want to hear from people in both camps. You can let them know your views in three ways - completing the 8 question Survey Monkey questionnaire on their website; writing something in response to the 12 in-depth questions, also on the website, or just writing to them about what you think. The more responses the better...http://www.nuffieldbioethics.org/donor-conception
Olivia

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## carrie lou

Thanks Olivia, I'll definitely do that.


----------



## Spaykay

Okey dokey


----------



## winone

Hi there,
I have not read through all the posts on here but have a question .....I am considering donor egg - annoymous vs. my sister who has happily offered her eggs and sees it as donating tissue. I was pondering what would the child feel like if he/ she knew my sister was the donor vs. annonymous donor? I am wondering if the child would want to bond with my sister and it may/ may not affect their relationship or if it was annonymous donor would the child feel part of them was missing and accept / not accept that? Wondering which route people think would be best because its very confusing to me!


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Counselling would help you to sort things through. I think maybe it could affect family relationships in adverse ways, but equally it could bring everyone closer and the child could feel like they would never be abandoned and genetically part of the family.
It may be difficult for the child to accept that your sister describes it as donating ''tissue''. Although I am sure her saying that makes you feel better that she would not see herself as the mummy.
What people feel now also might change in months or years to come.


----------



## drownedgirl

My friend donated to
Us which might throw up similar questions ... My little little ones are genetically half siblings both to her two children and to our first ds, for eg

I feel less nervous as to
How it might pan out, than if the dOnor was anonymous 

But to reassure people, our children know two families with 'two mums' and it seems to raise no questions so far. Boy in ds1's class and twins in twins nursery. The donor method of family making isnt uncommon


----------



## winone

Thanks ladies for the replies. Its a difficult one to think which way is best, then again time is ticking on and i have to decide soon !


----------



## ceci.bee

winone I feel for you with your dilemma, it is tough. I have friends from the DC network who have used a brother as the sperm donor for their daughter and it worked out really well for them so far. We considered asking DH's family members to donate but in the end decided not to and to go with an anonymous donor for all the concerns you raised. I think a lot has to do with the relationship you have with your sister and how you perceive her interacting with your baby and how you feel in your heart about accepting her eggs. I have one sister I would happy recieve an egg from, and another I would have major concerns, which I know sounds weird but I am sure whatever you decide the baby would have you as its mum and yoru sister as a loving auntie and with sensitive telling and talking as the baby grows up he/she would be very cool with the situation. As DG says, there are lots of children from unconventional families out there and I think it unlikely the baby would suffer any major stigma either way. Good luck wtih yoru decision!
lots of love
Ceci


----------



## Spaykay

DD has just started to talk about the story of how she became...way before I thought she might. I'm glad she knows as she's also starting to talk about eye colour, skin and spots (freckles) Mummy has spots, EG doesn't. I feel honest saying that Daddy doesn't have spots and maybe the special lady didn't either. This is just the beginning 

Kay xxx


----------



## winone

Hi Ceci - thanks for the reply. I have a good relationship with my sister. She wants me to talk to my Mum about it and get a different perspective as to what any problems might be. I have to think through it more and then decide but either way has pros and cons which makes it even harder.
Thanks again.


----------



## My Son is My World

Hi ladies
Its my first time posting on this thread as I am wanting to talk with people who have used anonymous donor sperm. My dp has azoospermia and we are currently in the final stages of my tests. Our plan was to go down the donor sperm route via the nhs, however after our counselling session earlier this week curiousity got the better of me and I looked online at blogs of donor sperm conceived children and it kind of messed with my mind. We would tell the child it's story, however I can't bare the thought that our want to be a family could cause upset and grief to a donor child. I really just don't know what is right at the moment and would love any experience from ladies who have/are in a similar situation
Thanks xxxx


----------



## carrie lou

Hi Emlore, lovely to see you over here  I can understand your concerns.

As you can see from my sig, our donor conceived child is still a baby and I honestly don't know how he will feel about the way he was conceived when he is older. My hope is that if we are open with him about it from early on, he will never think there's anything weird or embarrassing about it, it will just be part of who he is. Donor sperm was the only possible way we could have a family and I hope he will come to understand that one day and realise how very wanted and loved he is as a result. Whose genes he carries really makes no difference to that. Far from causing upset and grief, I hope our strong desire for a child will show him how much we value and appreciate him.

Have you had a look at the DCN website? There are some stories on there written by donor conceived children, now young adults, and the over arching message seems to be that the earlier they are told, the less likely they are to have any major issues about it. 

I would also recommend their Telling and Talking booklet which is very reassuring and makes the whole concept seem very "normal".

I hope this helps; it's a difficult thing you're going through but we're all here to support you


----------



## ceci.bee

Hey Elmore

lovely to see you over here and big     for what you are going through. Try to remember anything you read on the internet is likely to be biased, and blogs, while one person's opinion or experience, is just that. I guess that young adults old enough to blog are likely to be the ones with a problem or issue to air and are using their online forum to do that. I think most donor conceived adults, who are told about their origins when young and so it is always part of their family story, who feel loved and wanted are not blogging on the net about their angst. We plan to tell Joshi and read him his my story book around once per week at the moment. Like Carrie I have no idea how he will feel about it in the future, and I am sure he will have to find ways to deal with issues around it, but we will be there to help him and give him love and support. Carrie is right, the limited research out there seems to suggest that children who are told early have much less trauma than those told late, and so many familes these days have complex dynamics, he or she should not have too many issues compared to some of their friends etx. Good luck and we are always here to chat and support. None of this is easy, but lots of these issues do go away when you have a gorgeous baby to pour love into and you will only feel gratitude to the kind man who made your pain go away and helped you both become wonderful loving parents.

lots of love
Ceci


----------



## *ALF*

Hi all

Just thought I'd let you know how our 'telling' story is going. DD is currently 2 weeks short of being 4.

To be honest we haven't read DD's 'My Story' book for quite some time (mainly because I wanted to change the wording slightly so that it is Mummy/Daddy telling her her story rather than her telling her story and it took me forever to get round to doing it).
Anyway, DD has been asking lots of questions about how babies both get into and out of mummy's tummy, so I thought it was a good time to reintroduce the book.
So, on first reading, she actually wanted it read through twice because 'I like this story', then, I was bombarded with questions;
Why did you want to have a baby?
Why do you need a sperm?
Where in your body does the baby grow?
How does the sperm get to the egg? 
Why does Daddy's body not make sperm?
Will I need a donor when I grow up?
Have you got any more eggs in your tummy?
Why do you have to wait two weeks to find out if a baby is growing?
Why was I curled up in your tummy?

So, it would seem she is more interested in the technicalities of the situation than anything else - I have now ordered a 'lets talk about our bodies' book.

I do have a dilemma which I wonder whether someone can help/ give me some thoughts on.
DD is very interested in details.  She wants details of how the donor sperm met mummys egg.  The thing is she was actually the result of a FET following an ICSI cycle.  We had 6IUI's but none of them worked.  I'm unsure how much to tell her at this stage.  I could just say they put the donor sperm in my womb so it met my egg, but although we did this, it didn't result in her and at some point we will need to tell her otherwise.  So, do we just introduce the concept of IVF and frozen embryos.  I have looked at the 'My beginnings' book website, but am unsure exactly how much to tell her now.  Anyone used this book?
Any thoughts on introducing IVF as well as the donor aspect would be helpful.

Thanks
ALF
xx


----------



## drownedgirl

I have explained Ivf briefly by saying 
'normally the daddy puts his sperm into the mummy himself with a special cuddle but sometimes a dr has to help and so the egg is put into a little dish to join up with the sperm, then once a tiny baby has started to grow the dr puts it into the mummy and we wait to see if it gets properly planted and carries on growing'

Apologies to any mum/mum couples!

The de version adds in the explanation about being given some eggs 

I have explained donor insemination when asked too... (ds1 has a friend with two mums)

I think with regard to Ivf, it's necessary to briefly explain 'normal reproduction' before medicalising it all


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

That song/video that was posted (I am sure by you Drowned Girl) - mother nature's flower shop has a bit that covers IVF - with blue and pink petals in a dish.

I think it is easier to explain IVF than IUI. I'd say something like that the doctor took out mummy's egg and it met the sperm in a dish and overnight the egg turned into a tiny baby that grew into DD or DS inside mummy's tummy where it was warm.


----------



## drownedgirl

Yes, mother earth's flower shop is a great little animation


----------



## *ALF*

Thanks for the replies.

Without sounding like a bragging mother DD understanding is ahead of her years - for example, she's seen the video of her c-section so knows the doctor cut my tummy to get her out. Whilst getting dressed the other morning she asked to see where the doctor had cut my tummy, so I showed her, the following conversation then went;
DD- how did they get me out?
Me- they pulled the cut open and took you out.
DD- is it still open?
Me - no they put some special stitches in and then the skin joined back together.
DD - did you feel it? Did it hurt?
Me- I could feel them pulling you out but it didn't hurt because they gave me some medicine so it didn't hurt.
DD- how did they give you the medicine?
Me- they gave me an injection in my back.
DD- how did the medicine get into your back?
Me- they put a little needle into my back and the medicine went through the needle into my back
DD- did the needle make a hole?
Me - a tiny hole yes
DD- is the hole still there?
Me- no, it healed itself, like my tummy did. (I went on to remind her of when she'd seen me have a blood test and how that healed).

We have this level of conversation about alot of things, so I know that phrases like 'a special cuddle' or 'the doctor took my eggs' would just not be sufficient for her. She would want to know 'what sort of special cuddle' (not sure I like that phrase anyway) or 'but _how_ did the doctor get your eggs out of your tummy'.
Anyway, I searched amazon and found this book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Its-Not-Stork-Families-Friends/dp/0763633313/ref=sr_1_1_title_1_pap?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335520028&sr=1-1 which talks about boys and girls bodies, babies, growing up etc but is aimed at young children, so hopefully that will help us with the basic facts of life. But, she obviously also needs to know how 'her story' differs from this. I lay awake for quite a while last night thinking about this and the more I think about it the more I think I need to tell her about IVF now. 
She is definately a 'tell me the facts' kind of girl, so would love to hear if anyone can recommend a child friendly IVF book. Has anyone used the 'My beginnings' book to explain IVF.

Sorry that's turned into a bit of a brain download.

ALF
xx

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that 
fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## carrie lou

Gosh she sounds like a very clued up little girl! Am now feeling a bit daunted by having conversations like this with Z one day! But seriously, it's great to hear from mummies of older children about how "telling" is going.  Glad you found a suitable book Alf


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

At least she doesn't follow every answer to every question with ''Why?''


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## *ALF*

> At least she doesn't follow every answer to every question with ''Why?''


Believe me she's quite practised at that too


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## juju81

Crumbs alf  

I'd like pointers with Noah actually. How do u start when you child is not interested in books in the slightest?


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## drownedgirl

Juju, how about pulling up your top and telling him that he grew in your tummy ... Then build on that and repeat the story 

Do first you were the size of a pea 
Then the size of a strawberry .... Etc etc

And just tell the truth

We were so excited when you were growing!!


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Ju show him pictures of your bump then point to your tum. You could always use us too. Ie. Ds1 and ds2. Show him Pics of us and say how baby was in my tum. You could buy the donor book and photo copy the pics of the sperm and egg etc and put them on card and use as cards to just show him what u are in about.  

Alf what a clued up little girl she is


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## juju81

Oooh yeah that's not a bad idea. Mini do u mean u? And L & S?

I kind of feel a bit silly talking to a 2yr old about sperm and eggs   he'll
Just look at me and ask for Buzz or mr tumble


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## drownedgirl

Juju, don't start with sperm and eggs

Start with pregnancy and birth/meeting him

Repeat it a few times with embellishments (they love hearing the same story over and over) then when you feel comfortable, add in extra details 

Even if you never did, eventually he will ask how he got in there... Then take a deep breath and explain something simple but true 

It's enough with these things almost to just never tell a lie... It comes out bit by bit

Having Scan/pregnancy/newborn pics on your phone or pc is another good way to weave these stories in


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## juju81

I just said to nick about and then I said wen they hit a certain age they generally start to ask questions anyway.  A bit like Alfs daughter. I'll defo start with the baby pics tho. In fact im gonna start tomorrow  

That's girls,

Alf, as u can see, not sure I can offer u any advice yet


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## *ALF*

I agree with Drownedgirl - at Noah's age I was just showing DD pics of me pregnant with her - she found it hilarious going through pictures on the computer watching my tummy getting bigger and bigger and then finally me with her as a baby.  We looked through a few baby pictues as well.

I've only just introduced the words sperm and egg but this was driven by her questions, she keeps asking 'BUT HOW did I get in your tummy?'. If you don't feel comfortable using those words you could use 'special cells' or other such terms, but as said this doesn't have to be just yet.

Do you have the 'My Story' (or simialr) book?  Could you use them as a guide to make one with photos of you and DH.  If you introduce him to just the photos now in a year or so he may well be more interested in sitting down and listening to more of a story.


----------



## *ALF*

Our posts crossed Juju!!!!


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## juju81

I think in a couple of years I'll be happy to use sperm and egg do will def leave that for a couple of years. I'm gonna start with the preg pics over the weekend  

Cheers girls


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Ju yeah I meant me  

Ds loves my story.   he points at the pg woman now and knows a baby is in there from when I was pg. I feel funny using sperm and egg but we use it from the book so might as well carry on.  He gets really excited when it gets to the bit about when the baby is born and loves the picture of the family.  I don't think he's impressed by the sperm Donors tho  

I'm a bit worried about how he'll react once he knows his brother is not from A donor but that's a long way off yet.


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## olivia m

What great suggestions there have been on here about ways of starting to talk with children.  It's fascinating how different children are.  My kids (not adults) NEVER asked any of the questions *ALF* DD is doing.  She is clearly bright, on the ball and not to be fobbed off. Our experience at DCN is that most children are not as curious as her, but of course we can never know how our children are going to turn out (and that's not just because they are donor conceived...all kids are different).  
*ALF*, I suspect your DD would like the My Beginnings book/CD.  It has quite a lot of scientific information about cells etc., which you could simplify to start with if necessary.  I find it a little odd because some of the language is rather twee and this is juxtaposed with quite sophisticated scientific info, but there isn't anything else, as far as I am aware, that gives info in this way.  The book can be made up in different ways to take account of different scenarios so you get IVF info in there, alongside IUI, egg, sperm and embryo donation.  I think someone (was it you?) who said their child was an FET.  To cover this situation there is a version called, I'm a Little Frostie!
Olivia


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## drownedgirl

Yikes 

My 3 were from the same EC, two FETs  - sort of triplets in a way!


----------



## *ALF*

Mini-


> I don't think he's impressed by the sperm Donors tho


In the car today DD suddenly piped up 'Why's one of the owners (seems she can't say donors) a lady? - it would seem she thinks the middle one is a lady!!!! (that led to a conversation about how ladies can be donors too)

Olivia's comment about the experience from the DCN confirms what I had suspected in that DD's reaction may not be the norm, but I hope you don't mind me still posting about our experience, it may be of use to someone (and it is quite helpful to me to put it down in writing).

Having not mentioned anything for a couple of days this morning conversation in the car went like this;
DD - why's daddy got breasts? (she knows women have breasts to make milk for babies)
Me - he hasn't, he has got nipples, but he hasn't got breasts. Everyone is born with nipples, but only womens grow into breasts.
DD - if daddy grew a baby...
Me - but he can't he's a man.....
DD - I know, BUT IF he did grow a baby, then you would have to make the sperms...
Me - ummmmmmmmmmmmm

She stumped me somewhat with that one, but at least she has understood that women make eggs and men make sperm
A short pause to be followed by;
DD - why did you have to go to the hospital lots?
Me - to make sure that the egg was ready and it was the right time for the sperm
DD - I think it's so you could get lots of 'owners' sperms...

Seems to have got the idea of using donor sperm...

Got to go as DH just walked in having returned from a trip to India, better be socialable to him................................


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## drownedgirl

Alf, my ds1 has a similar penetrating curiosity ... Not long after he had got the gist of it all, aged 4, he piped up as I was fumbling with the front door keys to ask me how the sperm gets to the eggs ... Then was very amazed when I blurted out the route involved!


----------



## drownedgirl

But I think with explanations, keep it simple... They will ask more when they are ready 
At first they will probably accept spem met egg, later on they delve deeper


----------



## *ALF*

The thing is drowndgirl she won't accept the simple answers - she's already asked how the sperm gets to the egg. She asked yesterday how they get the donors sperm, I hoped she'd accept the donors went to the hospital and gave them to the doctors, but no that was followed with 'but how did they get the sperms out of the donors body?'
This is when we come stuck because DD has no experience of the male body, DH always walks round with boxers on and she doesn't go to preschool/ nursery so has no shared toileting experiences. So saying it comes out of his penis would have started off even more questions. So, I was honest with her and said it was a bit hard for me to explain at the moment but I've ordered a special book that talks about boys and girls bodies, growing up and making babies and when that comes I will be able to explain things better. She was happy with that so we'll see how things go when the book arrives. 

Olivia - thanks for your thoughts on the 'my beginnings' book. I will order a copy for her along with the I'm a frostie ( yes she was a FET) and see how we go. From the sample pages on the web I can see what you mean about the language but as you said it seems to be the only thing available, it'll at least be a starting point.

I didn't think I'd be explaining the full facts of life to my DD at this tender age but it seems her level of enquiry things are heading that way!!!!

ALF


----------



## drownedgirl

I did explain it all to
My son when he was just 4... It came up as we started the de Ivf so I remember it well. I was a bit nervous for a while in case he started telling children at school and I got a call, it did seem a bit young to me, but once his curiosity was satisfied he didn't talk about it much. I think getting a book aimed at younger children will both help you to explain it and have a well thought out approach you will find helpful 

By the age of 6 we had covered drugs, alcoholism, anorexia, donor insemination/lesbian parenting, cancer and death. At the moment he is trying to understand the credit crunch and uk tax system!


----------



## drownedgirl

Actually he also asked about gay dads so wd talked about co parenting, adoption and surrogacy!

It's very good to be honest I think ... Sets them in good stead

I hope, for eg, talking about things like transgenderism and peer pressure re drug taking will help him know we will always be there for him, and the importance of looking after himself


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

OMG what happened to childhood?
It is amazing how curious and clued up they are.


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## ceci.bee

agree with Holly - all the kids sound so mature and grown up! hope I will be as good as you guys when it comes to talking to Joshi......

xx


----------



## drownedgirl

Holly, I don't know whether it is because he has a friend with 2 mums, and family work in fields where drug addiction gets discussed ... But I think these days with regard to unconventional ways of forming a family, we are not the only ones with interesting stories. Certainly in London, there is sure to be at least one child in each class who comes via donor gametes... I don't think where I live is some sort of hotbed of lesbianism but there are plenty of f/f parents about. 

I think sometimes we can be so self absorbed, we forget the world is moving on and what to might seem a major potential revelation really is becoming increasingly common.


----------



## carrie lou

Hello all 

Inspired by recent posts on this thread, I thought I would share how our "telling" is going...

Ever since I was pregnant, I have thought how lovely it would be to make a personalised book for our child to tell him how he was conceived and how wanted and loved he is. By a wonderful coincidence, Zac is a boy who adores books and has recently reached the stage where he will choose a story and bring it to me to read to him. So I decided with his first birthday fast approaching (a week today  ) there was no better time to get my act together and make the book!!!

I got a scrapbook from WH Smith and covered it in bright paper. Then I wrote this story inside (some of the words are based on My Story as you will see) and illustrated it with photos of us. This is how it goes.

Dear Zac, (recent photo of Z giving a cheeky grin  )
This is a story all about you and how you came to be our little boy.

Before you were born, Mummy and Daddy lived together happily for many years. (photo of me and DH before Z was born) They decided they would like to have a baby.

A baby starts to grow when a sperm from Daddy meets an egg inside Mummy. (cartoon picture of sperm and egg)

The baby grows inside Mummy's tummy. (photo of me and my best friend both pregnant)

Mummy and Daddy waited a while, but no baby began to grow. This made them very sad. (cartoon sad face)

They decided to go and see a doctor at the hospital to find out if he could help them. (picture of hospital where Z was conceived)

The doctor said that Daddy didn't have any sperm and this is why Mummy and Daddy hadn't been able to have a baby. (sad face again)

Mummy and Daddy felt sad when they heard this. But the doctor told them there are some very nice men called donors who could help by giving some of their sperm. (cartoon picture of a doctor)

Mummy and Daddy thought this was a very good idea. So they had a look and chose this donor: (photo of our donor from Xytex website)
He is a very kind, good man who lives in America.

When Mummy's egg was ready, she and Daddy went back to the hospital and the nurse put the donor's sperm into Mummy. (cartoon picture of a nurse)

Mummy and Daddy had to wait a while. Then one day, they found out that a baby had started to grow in Mummy's tummy - and that baby was you, Zac! (6 week scan picture) Mummy and Daddy were so excited!

Mummy had scans at the hospital to check how you were growing. (12 and 20 week scan pictures)

Mummy's tummy got bigger and bigger as you grew. (series of photos of me pregnant with ever growing bump  )

Mummy and Daddy were busy getting lots of things ready for you. (photos of baby clothes and the nursery all ready for Z's arrival)

Then, on the 26th May 2011, Mummy and Daddy went to the hospital and you were born. (photo of Z taken on labour ward)
This is a picture of you just after you were born. You were tiny, and very cute!

Mummy and Daddy were so happy to meet you at last. (photos of me and DH cuddling newborn Z)

We love you very very much and we are so happy that you are our little boy! (recent photo of all 3 of us together)
Lots of love from Mummy and Daddy.

Made by Mummy for your 1st birthday, May 2012.   Photos by Daddy.

I'm so pleased that I've got it finished in time for his birthday - it's going to be a very special present for him.


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## Lindz

Carrie 
Thanka so much for sharing. Lovely. I need a smiley tears icon


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## drownedgirl

That sounds lovely


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## juju81

Carrie that's lovely. If I send my pictures, will you commission me one   


What a nice idea to do your own though. Will deinately thing about doing Noah one


----------



## Spaykay

Carrie - that's lovely. I started one on kodak but never finished as couldn't find the photo of her as an embrio. Must do it though as she can now tell her story and I've started to show her the scan pics. She talks very openly and the other day in a curry house said "This is the special ladies toilet!" uRMMM....Nooooo...I had to explain that we don't know the special lady and that I didn't think she'd been to this curry house. She often just comes out with "Mummy and Daddy were sad in the book" too....

Kay xxx


----------



## BexyPob

Hi all.  I'm looking for some advice but I'm not sure if this is the correct thread.  Dh and I are currently researching de's and we are both adamant that we want any resulting child to be able to trace half siblings in the future.  This may sound silly but if we go with an anonymous donor (not in UK) is there any way of tracing donor siblings or would that information remain anonymous too?  Love reading your stories on here, you're an inspirational bunch! Any help appreciated xx


----------



## olivia m

Hi BexyPob
As things stand, the US is the only country outside the UK where it may be possible to trace half-siblings.  That is, unless you go to Australia or New Zealand.  There are other countries in Europe that have removed anonymity for donors and hold registers but they either don't 'do' egg donation or egg donors are in even shorter supply than UK.  The UK would be your best option here.  Don't forget that clinics only have up to date information about what happens at their clinic.  They won't share with you whether a clinic down the road has donors.  And without any central point where it is possible to get this info you still have to do that leg work for yourself.
Olivia


----------



## suitcase of dreams

BexyPob,

the only thing I would add to Olivia's comments is that it _may_ possible later down the line to find half-siblings if you use anon donors at a clinic abroad. As more and more internet resources are available for those seeking half sibs/donors, you may find that informally you can trace half sibs. 
Although this will depend to some extent on the clinic used/amount of info you have on the donors
I suspect it will be difficult, and for many not possible. But in some cases I imagine matches will be made...
But this will be informal, rather than there being a country (other than US, Aus, NZ as mentioned by Olivia) where legally they are bound to give you this info

if you what you are seeking is an absolute guarantee that you can trace half sibs, then I think you are best off staying in the UK as that gives you the best chance

good luck  
Suitcase
x


----------



## BexyPob

Thanks Suitcase and Olivia that is excellent, I know I need to concentrate on the UK now then. We're hoping to have treatment early in the new year so hopefully that will be long enough to find a suitable donor. Thanks again x


----------



## carrie lou

An odd thing happened to me over the weekend. My best friend was staying with us for Z's birthday and I showed her the book I made him about how he was conceived. Now this is my very best friend who I've known since we were 14; she is usually pretty open minded about most things and I've confided in her about our fertility problem almost since the beginning so she knows all about the donor sperm.


When I showed her the book, her eyebrows nearly shot off her head - she was gobsmacked that we planned to tell Z at all and asked me "why we felt he needed to know". She reasoned that she and her DH know and it doesn't matter to them, as far as they are concerned DH is Z's father so why should we bring up the issue with him. 


I realise she's never been in our position and therefore has never had to think about it. But for me it just felt instinctive that "telling" was the right thing to do and I still think so. I tried to explain to her why I felt this way but she'd taken the wind out of my sails a bit so I'm not sure I did a very good job!


Just wondering if anyone else has experienced a reaction like this and what did you say?


----------



## drownedgirl

Does your friend have children?


----------



## carrie lou

Yes, she has a little girl, 8 months. Conceived naturally almost without trying


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

It's because she's not had to think about it so deeply as sges not in oyr situation  If she did she'd probably think differently.


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Ask her what impact she thinks it would have on her child if when 15 years old, and just about to do exams she found out some deep secret that rocked her to the core. Best to always know, then there is never any danger of it slipping out at the wrong moment and destroying the life you spent so much money and effort creating.


----------



## carrie lou

I realise she's never had to think about things they way we have. But I don't remember having to give it much thought myself. I just felt instinctively that it was the right thing to tell our child as early as possible. 


I did try to explain that I didn't want to drop a bombshell on Z at a vulnerable time of his life (or indeed any time of his life) and that I would hate for  him to think we'd all been keeping a massive secret from him. But I was so flabbergasted that I'm not sure I explained myself as well as I could have!


----------



## Spaykay

Oh yes I've had this reaction!!! One from a ff that I know in 'real life!'. My badic answer is...it's her right! 

We met a girl in a bar ladt week and quite openly she told DH 'I'm adopted' ( she's 9) Now why is being concieved using a donor egg so taboo? Why shouldn't they know? Just because it's donoe sperm/egg makes them no less your child...so what's the secret?

Mini - I think you'll agree that there is no differencw between your love for your donor baby and your natural baby. I'm so glad I can say I love them equally and feel no different. The only difference is the story of how they joined our family 

Kay xxx


----------



## drownedgirl

I do have a theory that it's harder to envisage concealing the information, once you have a hild ... A verbal child I mean, who asks questions continually and you try to answer honestly but appropriately. Having discussed things life death, sex and drugs with ds1 by the time he was 5, I couldn't imagine not telling the truth


----------



## *ALF*

I agree with Drownedgirl - having had the conversations I've had recently with DD about 'making babies' has made me stop and think how I just couldn't not tell her the truth, I would feel such guilt answering the 'how was i made' question with incorrect information.

I've been asked both by MIL and sister recently whether we will tell DD about her donor origins and my answer has been short, yet polite 'Yes, it is her right' - they have both accepted this and the conversation has stopped there.

Carrie - I agree I never remember ever having to 'think about' whether I should tell or not, it just always seemed the right thing to do.


----------



## Spaykay

I just want EG to know and accept that this is how she joined our family. It was a different route to her brother but that's his story. They are both amazing. Dies anyone react surprised when an adopted child is told they're routes? No. It's their right and so is knowing about a donor. Why hide it? It's nothing to be ashamed of. I'm proud of DD and her amazing story of how she found her way into our lives 

Kay xxx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Kay no there is no difference in the way I feel about our2 differently conceived children. They both have a story to tell in the way they came along. They ate both miracles on their own right.


----------



## Spaykay

My post sounded a bit angry...sorry. Just wish it was more universally accepted and that people dudn't have such opinions (not you lot...outside sources )

Kay xxx


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## suitcase of dreams

I didn't think you sounded angry spaykay, just confident and proud - which is how it should be


----------



## ceci.bee

Totally agree with suitcase, your DD and DS are lucky to have you as their mummy!

xx


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## Spaykay

Awwww, shucks  thank you.

Kay xxx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥




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## *ALF*

Just a quickie - any advice on telling (or not) school about DD's origins. She starts school in September so really need to decide what to do.  After all the very frank questions and discussions we've had recently I think I will have to say something. Just wondered what others have done/ plan to do/ have expierence of (Olivia?!!!!)
Ta


----------



## pippilongstockings

Hi Alf,
This is something we've discussed a lot recently as my eldest also starts school in September. Our school is a very small village school (60 pupils) and I know most of the children and their parents from his year. I haven't told any of them about how we conceived the boys yet - it just hasn't come up. It's possible that it will come up before he starts, I guess it depends if the opportunity arises! We've decided not to tell his teacher unless we think it becomes necessary. It would be interesting to hear other people's views on this though.
Pip x


----------



## olivia m

Hi *ALF*
We told each teacher in our children's primary school so that they would be in a position to support them if they talked about DC at school.  Our daughter did when she was 9 and the teacher handled it with ease.  By the time secondary school came along we felt that it was the children's information to share as they chose, but did in fact tell a science teacher when our son was 14 because he was having difficulty completing a piece of work on assisted conception!  14 is not the easiest of ages to confront issues to do with intimate details of parent's lives.
I would say that most DCN members do tell the school...sometimes just the headteacher, sometimes all class teachers as we did, but not everyone does.  We just felt that it was the right thing to do in the interests of our children.
It can also be a good idea to find out from the head when discussions about relationships, sex, conception, babies etc. are scheduled to happen in the curriculum as this can stimulate interest in DC for a child.  It can also be helpful for them to have DC mentioned as one of the many ways of creating a family.  Taking one of the DC story books into school to show teachers can also be helpful as a way of normalising DC.
Hope this is helpful.
Olivia


----------



## Spaykay

I work at the school the kids will go to so this makes things a bit more personal. However, when I see that EG starts to blurt information out then I will tell the teacher so they understand what she's on ablut. At the moment, she blurts info out at the mention of babies in tummies...tells her story basically...but I think only someone who knew about her conception would understand what on earth she's on about. She still links eggs to chickens so is a little confused to say the least 

Kay xxx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Cluck cluck


----------



## daisyg

Hi everyone,

I have only just told my 5 year old twins Reception class teacher and the assistants.  Even though I am really open with the children and they also went to the same school nursery, I have only just told the teachers now.  Not sure why it took so long!

Anyway, it was partly to do with the fact that the issue of no daddy is the primary one as I am a single mum, so I thought that I needed to let them have as much info. as possible because my two are starting to mention these things. 

I also wanted the teachers to be able to support them with any questions and not to be phased if my two mention donor concpetion or no dad etc.

I arranged a short meeting after school and explained that my two are donor embryo conceived.  I also explained about how we are members of the DCN and how they have helped me with books, support etc.

The teachers were wonderful!!  Totally non-judgemental and really interested and keen to help.  They asked for copies of all the books so they could use the same terminology and also took a note of the DCN details so they could go on the website!

It does help that we are in London and things are a bit more open maybe?  However, I am delighted that the children have such great support at school and am so glad I have done this...

Best of luck
Daisy
xxxx


----------



## olivia m

So glad you had such a positive reception at the school daisy.  I think most teachers, wherever they are, are likely to behave this way.  So many types of family come their way, I suspect they are delighted to support such a positive and responsible parent.  Thanks for telling them about DCN.
Olivia


----------



## greatgazza

Hi Olivia

I was just wondering whether you know of any examples of story books or photo books that parents have made to tell their little ones their story.  I have recently got the DCN's 'Telling and Talking' and I know there are 'My Story' and 'Our Story' books but there currently isn't one for single mums having double donation is there?  I'm trying to collate Bozo's first photobook and I'd just like to look at any others that parents have made for inspiration if there are any about.  I found one on here which is lovely but I'd really like to see some more if anyone knows of any.  I'll be happy to share mine once i've done it if anyone wants a look.

GGx


----------



## greatgazza

also, my pregnancy was originally twins and i'm wondering whether to include something about that in the story.  just wondered what anyone else thought about that? good idea? too complex? it's just that it is something i do want bozo to know so maybe it's best to be included as well right from the start...?

also do you think the phrases like 'fairy godmother' and 'magical mystery man' etc are good terms to use or cause more confusion? i couldn't see anything in the telling and talking booklet in the 'language' section but i haven't had a chance to read it all yet so is there something about this in there? or does one of the other leaflets cover it and it would be worth me getting one of those until a single mum/double donation booklet is available?

GGx


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## carrie lou

Hi Greatgazza, I made a story book for my DS for his first birthday that tells how he was conceived (donor sperm IUI) and wrote about it on this thread a few pages ago I think if you want to have a look for it. I just used a scrapbook and personal photos and wrote the words in myself. I chose to avoid phrases like "magical mystery man", I thought at this stage it would be better to stick to plain language so I referred to him simply as "the donor", but it's just my preference. Good luck with your book


----------



## greatgazza

thanks carrie lou, i'll take a look at that.

yeah i wasn't too sure about those sorts of terms but i did like kerry crabtree's photobook that she posted on here but i don't really want it to be too shrouded in 'fairytale' 

GGx


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## olivia m

Hi greatgazza
Soon, very soon, it will be possible to download pages for a story book that stars a child conceived by double donation into single mum family...plus lots of other scenarios, including twins.  DCN is getting a new website and the downloading facility for the books comes with this.  We tend to avoid fairy-tale language, preferring 'donor' or 'kind man or/and kind lady' as much easier for a child to understand.  My own inclination would be to leave the fact of having originally been a twin until a lot later when your child has understood the basics, otherwise there could be worry about where that baby is...but you will of course want to make your own decision about that.
Hope helpful.
Olivia

PS: Love the pic of your babe.


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## suitcase of dreams

good to know it's coming soon Olivia - there's quite a few of us eagerly awaiting the single mum/double donor book   

GG - am off for long weekend now, but will PM/reply later...I am in process of drafting my book and would be good to exchange ideas   

Suitcase
x


----------



## greatgazza

thanks Olivia, looking forward to hearing when it's available. and that's helpful about the twins thing.

thanks suity, yes be good to have someone else to bounce ideas off.

i'm really annoyed, mainly with myself, as i didn't actually realise what a photobook was and that you could add text and backgrounds, borders etc and other images and have a few images per page etc as i bought a groupon 60 page photo book a while back and thought 60 pages meant 60 pix but when i went in to start adding the pix i realised how much more you can do. 

i started thinking rather than it just being a photo album i'd use it for bozo's story but it runs out on saturday and i don't know what to do.  i don't want to rush doing his story and wish i'd done it differently but now i'll just have to put 'any old pix' in this i think or miss out on the deal.  i scanned in his scan pictures today and his birth certificate as i'd like to include them but i think now i know what's possible to include in a photobook i should hold off and take my time to make sure i do it how i'm totally happy with and don't feel later that i wish i'd included something. ggrrrrrrrr    oooh i just don't know what to do!  any thoughts??

GGx


----------



## daisyg

Hey GG,

I would go ahead and use the offer with what you have to hand.  You never regret having print outs of photos and it can be another book for you both to look at together later.

The 'proper' photo book can then be planned in a more leisurely way without so much pressure?

Best,
Dxx


----------



## greatgazza

thanks Daisy

yes, I will defo use the offer and not lose it and i think, like you say, i will just put some other pix in it and take my time over the 'real' story book so that i am happy with it.  getting far too stressed about it and i want it to be something i enjoy and don't feel rushed.  and yes i'm sure i will be putting together plenty of photo books from now on...... 

thanks

GGx


----------



## Rose39

GG - there are loads of offers on photo books at any one time (I've been looking this week and there were several companies offering 40-50% off their photo books) so whilst they are expensive at full price, you'd be able to find a good deal once you've got your head around what you'd like to put in Bozo's "my story" book. I'm thinking about this too - maybe those of us interested should have a chat at Suity's picnic and share ideas!
Rose xx


----------



## greatgazza

Hi Rose, yes I was thinking that re: the picnic! I'll try and get a prototype ready for discussion! Yes the photobook was pretty good value and as you say they come up all the time so better to decide what i'm doing then buy another deal when i'm ready.  i asked for an extension on this one that ends 16/6/12 and they emailed back they can't do an extension and that it will end on the 30/6/12!!  gonna save that email as evidence and use the extra time but think i'll still hold off on making it bozo's story as i still wouldn't want to do it then get some great ideas from you guys and wish i'd done something similar.

GGx


----------



## scoobylooby

Hello peeps!   


I have a gorgeous daughter conceived with donor egg IVF. She is 9 months old and I have always known I will tell her everything about how she came into this world. 


I know there are books out there that explain the donor process, was just wondering how to get hold of them? and also what sort of age people feel they can start talking about it? I feel I would like to gently talk about her donor even now! 


I know this info will be in past posts on this thread, but I can't read it all! 


xx


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## carrie lou

Hi Scooby, and congratulations on your daughter!!! I think a good starting point for you might be the donor conception network site:
http://www.dcnetwork.org/
They sell story books for reading to your little one to introduce them to the concept. There are different versions for different situations i.e. one for sperm donation, one for egg donation, etc. They also publish booklets called "Telling and Talking" to prepare the parents for talking to the child about it. We bought one and I found it really useful and also very reassuring as it seemed to address a lot of the worries I'd had.

As for when to start talking about it - I say whenever you want to, it's never too early! My DS is only 16 months but we have already started talking about it with him and read him "My Story" sometimes. I also made him a personalised book for his birthday that tells him how we was conceived and has photos of him and us in it. My hope is that he won't remember a time when he didn't know, there will be no big bombshell dropped on him - it will just be a part of who he is.  Hope this helps.


This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that 
fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## DonorFather

To all the ladies who plan to tell their child where they come from,

thank you!  

From a donor.


----------



## Spaykay

EG is 3 and knows that mummy's eggs disn't work so a special lady gave us some. We've always told her story. She's so funny as DS then came naturally so she's decided she kissed mummy's eggs...as obviously she was 1st (we're at the competitive age!) There's still a lot of confusion...even from me as I see no difference between my 2 children and find it strange that she's not from my eggs as I often forge...but, she will always just know. She is very similar to my DH, but we try to give some credit to the special lady and to learnt behaviors from me! All the negative behaviours get lamed on DH though 

Kay xxx


----------



## ceci.bee

Thanks so much Donor father for your post and your generous spirit - lots of ladies on here have happy families thanks to men like you


----------



## LittleFriend

I was wondering if anybody can help me with finding a book to read to my little boy? Most books tell the story of how mummy's eggs didn't work, which isn't the case for us. We used donor eggs to prevent passing on a genetic condition and I want DS to know we did it all so he was a healthy little boy. Are there any books like this? Or books that just talk about using a donor and don't talk about mummy's eggs not working etc?

There are several books on amazon, but they don't summarise the story. Does anybody know if they'd be suitable?

www.amazon.com/Pea-that-was-Me-Egg-Donation/dp/1478149418/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351509073&sr=1-3&keywords=pea+that+was+me
www.amazon.com/tiny-itsy-bitsy-donor-story/dp/6070050622/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1354961530&sr=8-10&keywords=carmen+martinez+jover
www.amazon.com/Very-Special-Lady-story-little/dp/1475152493/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1357419122&sr=1-2

Thanks in advance!

/links


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## olivia m

Hi Little Friend
I am familiar with many of the books helping to explain egg donation to small children and I have not come across one that addresses the issue of needing a donor in order to avoid passing on a genetically inherited disorder.  To be honest, this is a very rare situation which makes it unlikely that a publisher, even a self-publisher, would write/accept something for such a niche market.  
My first thought is that whilst your son is very young what is important is that you start introducing the idea that sometimes mummies and daddies need some help to make a baby and then that you needed help from an egg donor.  Your reasons for needing this help are to do with you and not to do with him.  What he needs to grasp is that someone elses egg was involved in making him...you can explain about the genetic issues later on in his childhood when he has a fuller understanding of what egg donation means.  So why don't you just change the wording in the book.  If you use the DC Network Our Story book, on page 10 you could change "The doctor said that we couldn't use Mummy's eggs...." to "The doctor said that we shouldn't use Mummy's eggs....    
Young children won't notice the difference, but you could use this word change to trigger a conversation when your child is older (say 7 up) on why you needed egg donation.

Alternatively, I suggest you write your own book, using some of the language from books you like but just inserting your own reason for needing egg donation...but keep it simple.
Best of luck
Olivia


----------



## greatgazza

Hi Olivia

just wondered if there was any news on the DCN book on single mummies and double donor?i think it was mentioned previously that there was one in the pipeline? thanks

GGx


----------



## LittleFriend

Olivia- thank you, that's a good little tip


----------



## olivia m

Hi Greatgazza
Almost all the difficulties are now ironed out and the on-line pages for the single women's many scenarios books will be on DCN's website shortly...hopefully by the end of January.  I'll put a notice on this thread when they are there.  Sorry for the delay.
Olivia


----------



## greatgazza

Olivia, no worries. That's great, thanks

GGx


----------



## Rubyjean

Hi everyone , you are so full of insights it's lovely to read.  I am not in your position (but hope to be!) but would value your feedback on where I am at. 

We go to the Czech Republic for our first deivf (and only- we have been trying to have babies for 10+ years and have loads of oe ivfs/Icsi under our belt so this is last chance saloon for us)

We have been incredibly lucky and have 2 lively boys from oeivf, we have decided to do one deivf cycle as I am now43. Anyway the boys will travel with us and will make it a family holiday (no choice in the matter). My issue is what to tell my older boy.  He will be 7 by the time we travel, the younger boy is only 3 so he will not be a problem. We will have  a couple of trips to the clinic and I am worrying about how to share with him.  I do not lie (well apart from Santa, and even there I am very wispy washy) and my ds 1 is very in touch with stuff so there is no point in lying! He knows all about their conception and really wants another sibling, so I have told how much we want another sibling too but how difficult it can be.  He has asked me why we don't go bac to the doctor who helped make him And his brother and I have told we have but it's not working anymore, but that we are we still looking at ways to make it happen.  

I am happy to tell him we are trying to make a baby, my worry is if it doesn't work.  We have quite a few deaths of people he loves in the last 2 years and he feels sadness quite keenly, and I think he will be gutted if we share with him and it doesn't work out.  I kinda don't know how to handle this? Anyone been in a similar situation or have some insights into what we can do? I just don't wAnt him to experience the pain of infertility at such a young age? Or do I just have to and help him handle it. N


----------



## Fraggles

Hi

It is so difficult isn't it. Would you feel comfortable just saying that you are going to see a doctor to see if it might happen or that you are having some tests (and won't know the results for a few weeks) rather than saying to him you are actually having IVF? I could imagine if he knows you have had IVF every day like Santa he might be saying how long mummy before you know which will be tough on you but also tough on him if you have to tell him it hasn't worked. In my opinion you don't have to help him handle IVF at such a young age.

I am sure others will be along with wise words too.

Wishing you lots of luck xxx


----------



## Rubyjean

Thanks so much for that fraggles that was really helpful. Sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees when its your own situation. That would be a perfect way round the problem, honest but not oppressively so.  
Thanks for your fresh eyes


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Yeah I'd do the same as fraggles said. 

Just say you are having a chat to the doctor about it. Good luck


----------



## Maurie

olivia m said:


> What he needs to grasp is that someone elses egg was involved in making him...you can explain about the genetic issues later on in his childhood when he has a fuller understanding of what egg donation means. So why don't you just change the wording in the book. If you use the DC Network Our Story book, on page 10 you could change "The doctor said that we couldn't use Mummy's eggs...." to "The doctor said that we shouldn't use Mummy's eggs....


I agree. And if he asks WHY the doctor said you shouldn't, there's a very simple way to explain it even if he's still quite young: "Because mummy's eggs had a problem that meant if we used them, our babies could be very very ill. We didn't want you to be ill, so we found a nice lady whose eggs didn't have any problems..."


----------



## Jessy71

Hi! 

I am new here. I have 16 months old daughter from embryo donation in Spain. I am single as well. So, my child will not be able to ever know identity of her donors. It is heart breaking, but I really did not have the other option as I am not from the UK. All other countries that allow embryo and egg donation to singles, have anonymous donor policies. I wonder if there is a book for children that can apply to my situation - single wilt donor embryo child.

Thanks!!!


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Jessy - am sure it's OK for me to mention that DCN is working on a book which will cover this situation, as well as many others applicable to single women - as I understand it, the book will be downloadable in sections so you can choose the parts relevant to you. last I heard they were hoping to have it finished soon - there are lots of us waiting for it   
one thing I would say and I do hope I'm not causing offence here, is that it might be an idea to have some counselling yourself to come to terms with having to use anon donors. I would imagine you wouldn't want your daughter to think it was 'heartbreaking' that she can't know the identity of her donors - so you'll need to be careful about how you talk about it with her. I am also single and used both anon egg and sperm donors (long story but it ended up being the only real option for me). I do feel some sadness for my children that they will not be able to find out about their donors, but I will be approaching it with them in a very matter of fact way so as not to project my feelings on to them (in theory at least - who knows how it will turn out in practice - they are not yet 2 so although we talk about it, they don't understand just yet)
hope you don't mind me saying this, it's just that your use of heartbreaking struck me and I wondered if you were still struggling a little to come to terms with your use of anon donors (I've been there myself so I know how tough it is   )
Suitcase
x


----------



## Jessy71

Thank you so much -  suitcase of dreams!!! No, what you said is not offending at all. I have been thinking a lot about how I was going to approach this without being emotional and without causing confusion for my little one. I still have some time and I want to prepare my self as much as possible. I just love her so much that I just cannot think about the possibility that she will be suffering for not having anyone that shares her genes. I guess you know what I mean... I will certainly go for some counselling, but it is so difficult here in Sweden. I actually do not know anyone in the same position.

Thanks Olivia, I will check my PM.

Kisses!!!

Jessy


----------



## Spaykay

Jessy - the first times I read my DD stories about how she joined our family I cried (she was too young to notice) Now it's just very natural and a part of who she is. We rarely talk about it, but she knows. It still means little to her..but I no longer cry. She is my daughter and we know each other so well, the generic issues really feel unimportant any more. They are her beginning, but not who she is. I hope our bond continues and the donor issue is just a small fact in her life. I no longer shed tears or worry. I have a fully genetic DS now too and truly see  and feel no difference between them

Kay xxx


----------



## Jessy71

Kay -  thank you for your support. I love my daughter so much, and I really do not miss that genetic bond. Genetic has never been a problem for me once I had accepted the fact that I cannot use my eggs and had decided to go for embryo donation. My fears are that she might miss it and that I will not be able to help her with her feelings. I want to do everything I can to do everything right so that she accepts her donor origins  as  just a small fact in her life as you said. I have already started telling her, but I wanted to have this book as well. So I hope it will be published soon on the DNC website. 

Thanks!!! XX


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## daisyg

Hi Jessy71,

I have 6 year old twins from donor embryo in Spain.  Like you and the others above, I started to practice telling them from birth.  I joined DCN early for support for me and my children.

Although a specific book for donor embryo and single women isn't available yet, I have bought the 'Our Story' book for single women using donor sperm.  I found that it is easily adapted at this early age, because there are pictures of an egg and sperm and you can adapt your story to the book.  

My children love this book as it is all about them and children love that!  Now they are 6, I have found that interest waxes and wanes throughout, and they didn't show much interest in the early years.  Now their focus is on why they don't have a daddy and that has become a point of interest especially for my son who has started asking me lots of questions about the donor man only!
Anyway!  Obviously recommend having a look at the DCN website and maybe joining when you are ready.  They have members from all over the world, some maybe in Sweden?.  

You are doing a fantastic job.  Being a single mum is really hard, and we have an added issue which makes our children special!  I think we can only do the best we can, with love and support.
There is a great deal of wonderful support on fertility friends, so keep in touch!

Kindest wishes,
Daisy xx


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## upsydaisy

Well said Suitcase   .  I replied to a similar post where the phrase 'heartbreaking' was used.  There are many many things in this world that are truly heartbreaking, you only have to browse this web site to find heartbreak by the bucket load   .  I view the opportunity to create my daughter using a donor as a hugely positive thing and this is how I've presented it too her.  We all have to make difficult choices.  I chose to have my daughter without a father, which some would consider 'heartbreaking', if I had felt that I wouldn't have gone ahead.  
Daisy - I also use the DCN book and have found it really helpful, I read it to her as a baby and yep I cried    mainly due to the emotion of the memories.  She can now read it to me! and loves it. I have an ID release donor but that brings no guarantees and may set up expectations that'll be crushed    The genetic issue is very much an adult issue, no doubt there will be some curiosity from our children once they are grown up and particularly if they go on to have their own children, there may be a degree of sadness but 'heartbreak' ? if they have grown up surrounded by love, reassurance and the message that their conception was a positive and wonderful gift hopefully not   
Jessy -   I really hope you can find some fellow singles to meet up with.  I have found that invaluable and my daughter has made friends with other donor conceived children who she'll hopefully be able to share her feelings with in the future.
Upsyxxx


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## Jessy71

Well, I used the term heartbreaking not because I made the choice I made. Having my daughter as a single mom was the best thing I have ever done in my entire life. I am proud of my choice and I am proud of my little  one. I would not have it differently now even if I had that choice. I used the word heartbreaking thinking of my daughter suffering for my choices in the future, because we really do not know how our choices will affect them. I just have feeling that I was so misunderstood here, especially by the last poster. And I just needed some support... that is why we are here aren`t we?


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## upsydaisy

Sorry Jessy    I was trying to diagnose my daughter with tonsillitis via Dr Goggle at the same time as posting so I probably wasn't paying enough attention to what I was saying   We really do need to stick together   out there in the big wide world we are few and far between.  I completely agree it was the best thing I have ever done in my entire life.  I guess what I meant is that if I truly thought it would cause my child heartbreak I wouldn't have done it.  I'm sure as a teenager she will no doubt hate me and it'll be one of the many things she hurls at me in a fit of rage (mind you she'll probably have quite a list to draw on by then  ).  None of us really know how our decisions will affect our children we just do the best we can at the time.  Some wont give it a second thought others might need a much deeper explanation.  Having worked with children who have had their hearts broken in the most appalling ways I just have a bee in my bonnet about the use of the word.  We are definitely here to support each other and our children  
Sorry again, I need lessons from Suitcase in how not to offend   , I'm off to look at more pictures of tonsils, yuk !
Upsyxxx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Jesse we had a ds from a sperm donor. He can trace him in USA, but my concern is that we then went on to have a baby naturally    I too feel concerned and really heartbroken that one day he will realise that his brothers dad is not his bio dad.    Lots of people have assured me that he will be fine and not bothered. But like you, at the time we had no choice and someone somewhere had others ideas about how our family will be. But it doesn't stop the feeling that one day his little heart is going to be broken   


Everything will work out fine. And I'm sure she will be proud that you took the big step to have her on your own.   


Upsey hope the tonsillitis isn't too bad!


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## Fraggles

Hi This is a timely conversation for me as I am considering going for no2. No1 is OE but as I am two years older and closer to 45 think it will have to be DEIVF and too wonder if I will break my LO's heart if I have a second. x


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## ceci.bee

Fraggles hun I am sure you won't break your LOs heart by giving him/her a sibiling, ever - you will just increase the joy and happiness in all your lives. Good luck xx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

its true fraggles, I worried about the same thing but they really love each other and the laughter that comes from them both is amazing!


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

I've got friends who are genetic children of their parents, but have adopted siblings after parents have lost children or adopted and then got pregnant naturally, or had secondary infertility and then adopted. The children are all equally treated and feel like equal siblings and appreciate having a sibling and a wider family later in life.
I am an only child and I would love to have siblings at this time in my life with my son. I want him to have a wider family and someone he can call on for support in the future. I am in a situation now that I do not know what to write on my will about a guardian for him if I die. I have no close family I can ask like a sister or brother. That breaks my heart more than if I had had a non genetic sibling.


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## Spaykay

EG and A fight like any other sibling...they have no idea they are genetically different, and however much she hates sharing...it's her brother she cries for when she's upset.

Kay xxx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Awwww!


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## carrie lou

Hi everyone, I just thought I'd check in with a little update because Zac is now 20 months and we've started reading "My Story" to him fairly regularly. In fact he often chooses it himself and will bring it to me or DH to read to him. It lives on his bookshelf with the rest of his books. 


He has even started repeating some of the phrases in the book, for example, "then one day it happened"  . He also says, "mum, dad, baby - Zac" because I always make a point of saying how the baby in the story is Zac. I know he is far too young to really grasp the significance of the story, but it is so sweet to think that he is beginning to engage with it and be interested in it.


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

well done carrie. We do the same with saying the baby is DS. He also likes the, then one day it happened. he repeats it too!   


The book also lives on his bookshelf. He chooses it too. He knows that the sperm meets the egg to make a baby     Tonight was the first night that we actually had a conversation about it    He knows the kind man give the sperm. I have been telling him the the doctor thought daddys sperm didnt work so we used the sperm from the kind man, but then the doctor got it wrong,  because DS2 is from daddys sperm. we then went on to say that if we didnt have the kind mans sperm then we wouldnt have DS1, he said that DS2 would be sad without DS1    


so it looks like its going in.


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## carrie lou

Aw bless, that's so sweet   Nice to hear how it evolves as they get a bit older. I have been wondering how to adapt the story if/when we have another baby  Guess we'll have to cross that bridge when we come to it!


BTW I have been using the word donor as well as kind man - not sure what people's views are on this? I just want him to be able to have a word to refer to the donor if needed, so thought I would introduce it now.


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

That's a good idea. Wil add that one in too. Don't want him to think every kind man gives his sperm


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## carrie lou




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## suitcase of dreams

yes, I say "man, and that man is called a donor"
I personally don't actually say "kind" man because I went abroad for tx where donors are paid for donating and I can't be 100% sure that he was a kind man vs a student who wanted the cash if you see what I mean
and as my two get older and understand the implications of me going abroad/anon donors etc I don't want them throwing that back at me and saying I lied to them and he wasn't kind, he was just doing it for the money etc. 
I may be reading way too much into this and imposing my own worries (re anon donors) onto my children but at the same time I really don't know if he was a kind man or not. I know that I am very grateful to him, and to the doctors who found him and that's what I tell the boys, but I don't call the donor himself a kind man (or the egg donor a kind lady for that matter...)
if you have tx in the UK, much more likely that the donor was doing it out of the goodness of his heart/because he wanted to help, but just no guarantee abroad and I just feel I need to be completely truthful about that with the boys
Suitcase
x


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## Jacobsmum

Dear everyone

been thinking for a while now of posting here. I have always planned to tell - told friends and family when ttc - and first 'told' my little one on our first night home together that he is my precious darling, with help from two special people who are his donors.  So far he's not at the questioning stage, unless it's to ask can he 'phone Nana' or 'more biscuit?'... I will have to rethink/ plan better for when I do a photobook ('special', 'kind' etc - 'man/woman who did a kind thing'?), but for now he knows, my family know, friends etc. In fact, last time my folks visited they drove us to Dunfermline for a DCN meeting, so we talked about it en route.

I decided on openess about double donation for a number of reasons: because I am no good at secrets being one. Also because if I think it should be 'secret' does that mean I think it's second best? If I think that, am I part of the problem, part of the reason people need to not tell anyone? I have definitely raised the profile of donation among people I know by being open, and that can only be positive... Also because if you tell someone (anyone) that information, how do you justify NOT telling the person most affected by it? Also because in my work (I'm a social worker - mainly adults, mainly mental health issues) I often come across situations where people have 'found out' something at some point in life and the 'something' has destroyed family trust/ damaged relationships etc.  The issues are many - around legitimacy, adoption, secret siblings, you name it - and in my experience it is almost always the 'secret' rather than the 'fact' that does the damage. Family were a bit unsure about telling (but then I did agree to be interviewed and an article in the Daily Record - so there are levels of 'openness'!), but friends have all been supportive.

So why am I posting now? Well, my Dad (who knows, but doesn't care and sometimes forgets about J's donor origin - he's just another much loved grandchild) was diagnosed with dementia at Christmas time. It's early stages so far, so mainly short-term memory affected. What has that got to do with anything? Well, I am pleased I told everyone, because even if I had been keeping things quiet I would still have told my parents. And I am a worrier. If I had told them a 'secret', would I then have to worry about whether my Dad would remember it? Tell people accidentally? Or whether he would remember that there was some important thing, but worry that he might not remember what...  So not a hugely positive reason to tell, but actually a relief to me that it's not a secret. At a time of quite a few potential worries about the future, one less is good. I don't have to worry about anything 'coming out' that is private, I can just focus on my Dad and his relationship with his grandson. And this is not a situation I thought would come about (or if it did, it would be way in the future) - no family history of the illness, no risk factors, and quite early onset (before 70).

Anyway, I realise there are many and varied reasons for everybody's decisions around this matter. Mine was to be open. I am glad I decided that. There will be questions in the future, I don't doubt. I am planning a photobook - have taken a few photos (clinic, satellite clinic where first bloods and scans were done etc), but need to do a few more... 

I am sure other people make different decisions, for equally valid reasons. But I just wanted to say that being open about it has made a difference to me in a situation I hadn't given a thought to at the start of this process.

Best wishes to all
Jacob's mum xx


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## ceci.bee

lovely post jacobsmum    I am sorry about your dad - mine is also in the process of being diagnosed wtih early onset dementia with depression and it is really hard on all the family, particularly him


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Jacobsmum I feel exactly the same about secrets and people finding out. I work in the same field ya my dad found out his mum wasn't his mum when he was 23. He never forgot the secret that everyone had kept from him. Even his own brother knew.


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Jacobs mum - it makes a lot of sense to be honest. Finding out a lie must be very traumatic. Someone at work has just found out her Dad has another daughter with more grandchildren too and she gets upset when he buys her kids things and now worries about wills and things. Her Dad did not even know about this child.

I am sorry about your Dad too. Mine has been diagnosed with dementia too and it is very hard to deal with. My Dad is 84 this year.


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## carrie lou

Jacobsmum, lovely to hear your story and you make some very good points. The fear of secrets and the damage they can cause was one of my main motivations for being honest with my little one too.


I'm sorry to hear about your dad - that must be very hard


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## ceci.bee

Hi all thought you might be interested in this blog summarising the report about govt advice re telling and talking in donor conception
http://blog.wellcome.ac.uk/2013/05/02/issues-of-identity-and-disclosure-in-donor-conception/

love and light to all
Ceci 

/links


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## pippilongstockings

Thanks ceci - very interesting blog x


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## pippilongstockings

My 5 year old asked how he got in my tummy the other day. It's the first time he's been even remotely interested so we answered his questions, trying not to be too serious or intense about it    He just kind of shrugged and went back to play with his hexbugs. I think I'll gently raise the subject again later this week and read him the book and see if he has any more questions. I'm wondering whether now would be the right time to have a word with his teacher? It's quite likely that he'll talk about it at school so maybe it's worth letting them know? I know I've asked this before but still haven't quite made up my mind what to do!


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## juju81

Pippi I was thinking this the other day. Noah's 3 now and in the back of my mind I have that whole research saying the best age is 2/3 blah blah. He's not interested in reading his book and I have no idea how to gently bring it into convo. Then I worry if I leave it too late he'll hate us! To be completely honest, some days I just want to forget we even have to have this conversation with him  

I think I'll leave it. Maybe when we start having treatment and we take him we can talk to him about it because he will ask where we're going and what were doing


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## pippilongstockings

I think it's possible to make too much of a big deal about it at that age juju. Z is 3 too and I think we've read the book to him 3 or 4 times. I think of it as sowing the seeds at his age and adding to it when appropriate when they get a bit older and can understand/process things a bit better. L is just getting to that age now in my opinion (5 1/2). I know some people will disagree with me though - one lady I met at a DCN meeting talked about it with her children very frequently.
Having treatment for siblings is the perfect time to bring it up I think. Just don't expect him to be interested


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## pippilongstockings

juju81 said:


> To be completely honest, some days I just want to forget we even have to have this conversation with him


You won't be the only one to feel like this


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## juju81

I think I'll leave it a bit longer, like L, when he starts to ask questions.  I'll answer any questions he has but I certainly won't bring it into conversation everyday iykwim (unless he asks everyday of course)


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## suitcase of dreams

possibly a bit different for me because I'm single so I've started already saying (in a very matter of fact way) that we don't have a daddy in our family, and mummy went to the doctors to get help to have them (I have twin boys who just turned 2)
I tend to chat about it just before bed time when we're reading stories. Particularly if there is a story with a mummy and a daddy in it, then I use that to talk about there being different kinds of families and ours doesn't have a daddy. Then I go on to talk about how doctors found a lady and man to help mummy and how they put the tiny babies in mummy's tummy where they grew and grew etc.
I'm not sure how much they really understand at this age, very little I expect, but I figure it's good practice for me so that when they do ask, it trips off the tongue rather than me being stuck how to reply. 
We don't have a DCN book because there isn't one for single women who used both egg and sperm donors so I just talk about it. Keep meaning to make a photo book but just don't have the time...
Likewise, I'd prefer not to have to have the conversation, but it is what it is and I tend to think the more naturally and casually I talk about it now, the more it will just be their reality and it will never come as a surprise or shock to them. 
But as I say, in some ways it's a little easier as I'm single and the obvious lack of a daddy provides a 'way in' to talking about it all...
Suitcase
x


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

We read the book every couple if weeks. He loves the book.   he was asking what the seeds were in a melon so I told him they were seeds to make the melon grow like the seeds that the donor gave mummy and daddy. He remembers everything now. Issued him where the seeds went and he said into mummy's egg to medley me. 

I have to adapt the book cos of ds2 being a surprise. I've always thought it best to drip feed from an early age. But that's my opioion and what I feel is best for me. 

I'm going to try to make my own book for him.


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## DizziSquirrel

pippilongstockings said:


> juju81 said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be completely honest, some days I just want to forget we even have to have this conversation with him
> 
> 
> 
> You won't be the only one to feel like this
Click to expand...

thats how my DH feels  I am sure if he could he wouldnt talk about it all 

Ive not really broached it yet, but I have printed a poem to read and going to use that as my springboard! ( its under my info on here as it was written by an FF'r ) I think we are close to the conversation as shes asking for a sister ALL THE TIME !!! Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


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## daisyg

Hi,
Suitcase - just wanted to say ref. the DCN book, I have used the single women using donor sperm book for my donor embryo conceived twins, and have just adapted what I say as there is a picture of an egg and a sperm in there which I explain as from the egg and sperm donor.  I have also added twins to all the pregnant mummies' tummies as they kept asking me where the other one was when I read it to them.
Now my daughter aged six reads it herself, but I have found that adapting the language to suit DD  is straightforward and it is only really an intro. to the subject which you can make up your own words to.
I started reading it to them from about age 2 and they often have chosen it for bedtime etc.  I do try and talk about it but don't push it unless the situation seems right.  At the moment they only really talk about not having a dad as I am single so that is what we talk about a lot at the moment.
Have got more to add but bit tired!
Best.
Daisy


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## ElsieMay

I started telling L when she was 2 so I could practice the story of her creation.  Now she is nearly 5 and I only mention it if she directly asks a question or if she mentions something relating to it e.g her curly hair.  The telling now is done in a very 'by the way' manner.  One of the mums at school felt she had to have a chat with me as L had been playing at their house and her little girl had been informing L where babies came from (your bottom apparently) and boys are boys because they have a 'peanuts!!' L's friend had asked why L did not have Daddy and I was so proud as L said "because Mummy wanted me so much she had me by herself" .  Two interesting things - L's friend asked no further questions and L did not talk about where she came from.
EM


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## RB76

ElsieMay, your little girl sounds just lovely, the telling of our children is something that is on my mind a lot and I do hope they will be as spirited as her


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## Tottie

Hello Ladies
I am so glad I have found this thread.  We have a four and a half year old son and 2 year old twin girls, all DE conceived in Barcelona.  We adore our children and are so proud of the family we have been able to create through DE.  We have always planned to tell them the story of their conception and are realising that this should be done soon (we were thinking of telling him during the school holidays), particularly in the case of my son as he is very inquisitive.  The girls are just beginning to talk properly and so won't have much comprehension at the moment. 
I am not concerned about telling our children and I am confident that we will be able to support them and answer their questions...but I am dreading everyone else finding out.  Only our parents and siblings know about the DE treatment and we haven't told anyone else because we wanted our children to be among the first to know.  My son is very sociable and chatty and attends pre-school (he will move up to Reception at the same school in September with all his friends), I have got to know a lot of the other pre-school mums and we live in a town where we have lots of good friends with young children, some of whom I have known since my schooldays.  The last thing I would ever want is for it to have a detrimental effect on our children and am worried that people will suddenly see us, as parents, in a totally new light, that we will become the subject of gossip (our town is quite gossipy) and people will think we have been deceitful for not being open about DE and keeping it to ourselves.  
Any advice or pearls of wisedom would be very gratefully received.
Thank you!
Tottie xx


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## pippilongstockings

Hi Tottie

Have you had a look at the DC Network Telling and Talking information? We found the DCN fantastic for working through these issues. 

We told good friends very early on in our journey (before treatment) and tell newer friends as and when it comes up or becomes necessary. I think it's easy to overestimate how interested other people are in how we conceived our children - it's extremely important to us and something we have obviously thought about in huge detail. But for other people it is just a piece of interesting information. It is possible that people will gossip about it for a short while but I doubt anyone would judge you for not telling everyone sooner. The approach I take is not to apologise for using DS or for not telling some people straight away. I deliver it as factual information and usually in the middle of a relevant conversation. There are often conversations amongst mum friends about having more children which is a natural opening!

Again, I would really recommend checking out the DCN information or going to a meeting if you can. It really has helped us enormously (I don't work for them I promise!).

Hope that helps x


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## ceci.bee

Hey Tottie congratulations on your lovely family. I completely agree with Pipi, some people are nosier than others, but it is information that belongs to the child, so you can always tell anyone you talk to about it that it was important that your children knew first before you told anyone else beyond immediate family - there is no way anyone could judge you for that I promise, adn you might get a few curious questions, and then most people will forget about it and move on - I live in a small gossipy expat world and have told one friend twice that we have had IVF - she clearly forgot as she asked if we would have more babies in Africa, which I could easiliy bat away. As long as you have a firm line about this is why we used donor eggs and how it makes absolutely no difference to how you feel about yoru chidlren or how they relate to you, adn that you have no curiosities about the donor then they won't being up antyhing any furhter.
hope that helps
Lots of love
Ceci


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## Ginger

Hi all

Wonderful to catch up on some familiar names here, I haven't been on FF in a long time.

I read the DC Network "Our Story" to James for the first time when he had just turned 4. 

He still asks for it from time to time, and we read it as often as he wants to. He rarely asks any further questions, and seems perfectly satisfied with the information he has. When he does ask questions, or makes a remark which is worthy of a comment, we respond factually and honestly. For example, he asked me if my sister also needed to get eggs from a special lady to make his cousin. I reminded him of the book, and how my eggs weren't working well enough to make a baby, so it went something like this "No, you  remember that Mummy's eggs didn't work very well, and we got eggs from a lady? Well N's eggs did work to make your cousin, and they didn't need to find a special lady". And that was it, he said OK and ran off.

It's wonderful really, as the years pass, I am more comfortable with talking to him, and answering his questions. I was open with my family when we chose DE to make James, and have confided in a few people, but as ceci has said, I feel that I am a guardian of his information, so it is not my information to give away, it is his, and he can tell who he likes, when he likes, and I will support him all the way. If that happens sooner rather than later, and some parent or teacher needs support, then I will offer it. 

Have to agree with pippi - some may gossip - so what, some may not care, some may not understand, but as long as my son understands, and knows that I am honest, open and supportive, then he's all I care about.

D xx


----------



## Tommi

Hi everyone

I'm looking for some advice please... I am currently just coming up to 14 weeks and used donor sperm to conceive. I am at the point where I want to tell my wider family and friends and had thought that I would be completely honest with them from the outset. However, I do also feel strongly that I am now the guardian of my baby's "story" and that it is ultimately for him/her to tell. From my perspective, I don't mind who knows or what level of detail, but I wonder if I would be doing potential harm by being so open from the start. My main reason for wanting to do that is that I come from a close extended family. There are a lot of us and we see each other fairly often. They will wonder about who the father is! I can also envisage a time when my child is interacting with them at a family gathering and the topic may well come up. I'm wondering if a balance may be to tell the basic facts to family (I used donor sperm) and the finer details are then preserved for my baby to tell should he or she wish to?

I'd be really grateful for any input, thank you!

Txx


----------



## Rubyjean

Hi everyone, I have 2 children (7 and 3) both conceived with oeivf, and I am  so very happily 15 weeks pregnant with twins after deivf. 

I feel very confident about our decision to proceed to de. We will tell the babies and also our other children. In fact, our children travelled with us to the czech rep when we did the deivf, and went to the clinic with us, so ds1 knows we were trying there, mind you he hasnt asked me about the clinics connection with the pregnancy, well not yet anyway! We have also shared the info with some others, but only where it's relevant, or to very close friends.  My parents know, for example, but not my siblings.  DP has told a couple of his siblings but not this mother.  In fact, his mother doesn't know about our infertility journey, she has very strong negative opinions about ivf! 

Anyway, we have told both my boys the story of how they were made (oeivf).  Interestingly neither of them have ever mentioned it to anyone! DP was concerned that ds1 would mention it to his mother, but he never has! We have never told them its a secret or anything, I think they are just comfortable with it all and don't feel need to talk about it to others. Now that ds1 is older (7) he realises its private and you talk to people you are close to about it, and that most people don't need help to make babies. He rarely asks about it at moment.  It is ds2 (3) favourite story, he never tires hearing of it.  Recently he asked me to tell him the story of how he was born in front if dps mother, but I distrActed him as  I didn't want her to hear it.

I am not sure how generally open we will be about de in years to come, but based on ny experience with my 2 boys, children don't seem to mention this stuff too much, ESP if they are happy with the info they are getting, so I am not too worried about the twins ( or indeed the older two) 'outing' us, but I know we will cope with whatever comes our way. I hope that's helpful to you tottie. I reckon just go for it.  Do what feels best with your kids and the rest will fall into place.

Tommi, if you are close with your family, and they are open minded and you can trust them, I would absolutely tell them if you feel it will be a support to you and your child in the future. Only do what you are comfortable with though, not just to satisfy people's curiosity.

Rj x


----------



## Tommi

Thank you Rubyjean. I think that's great advice not to satisfy people's curiosity but to tell if it would be a support. Thank you!
Txx


----------



## Kernow Lou

Hi ladies,
I was wondering if I could join you all?  I'm looking it from a slightly different angle.  I'm a very lucky mummy to my daughter, Anais, and I am about to do an egg donation for my clinic as a thank you for their help.  I will be telling my daughter that, if it works for the recipients, she has a half sibling/s.  I've been advised to be open with her by the counsellor at my clinic as she would be able to search for any siblings if she so wished.

I was wondering if anyone had any advice, thoughts or information to get me prepared for this.  My daughter is too young at the moment, but it's something I'd like to tell her about as soon as I feel she is ready to hear it.

I'm sorry for no personals, but it seems there are a lot of you on here.  Congratulations on becoming parents or being pregnant and I hope to catch up with you all soon.

Lou x


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## upsydaisy

Hi Tommi  


Once I was lucky enough to become pregnant I decided to be completely open with everyone.  As a single parent is was just so much easier than the alternative (my mother wanted me to invent a holiday romance!)  I don't want my daughter to think of it as some shifty secret, any awkward conversations need to be dealt with by me so she doesn't have to deal with them.  Friends, family, nursery staff, teachers are all aware.  She loves the DCN book and is really proud of her story.  If I'm asked a direct question I'll give a direct answer, believe me it does get easier the more you do it!  It's often other single parents who ask the most.  A conversation will usually start with "Does E see her father?"  Just saying "no" implies something horrible has happened - a father who's died, a father who couldn't care less about her, a father I tricked into conceiving her with, a father I didn't bother to tell about her ...  The truth is far far preferable to people jumping to those conclusions.  It also normalises E's situation, the more people hear about it.  I like to think I'm doing my bit for the 'single parent by choice' cause.  I've even met someone who said they knew a friend of a friend who had done the same thing - turned out it was me    
As E gets older it will become her choice who she tells, certainly by secondary school it'll be completely up to her.  


Kernow Lou
I really struggle with the sibling issue.  It's the part of the story I haven't yet shared with E and wont do for some time.  She'd desperately love a sibling and if she knew any form of sibling was out there she'd want them to move in and share bunk beds   


Upsyxxx


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## carrie lou

Kernow Lou, what a lovely thing you doing  I am soon to be an egg sharer so we have something in common. I am quite surprised though to hear you were told your DD could contact any children born from your donation. I asked the counsellor this at our initial appointment (we have a two year old son) and she said any children resulting from my donation would have no right to contact my son.   Perhaps I misunderstood or she was mistaken. I think it must be a very complicated area when an egg donor has children of their own as well. 


Anyway, to answer your question, I also plan to tell DS that I donated my eggs and there may be half siblings out there. He was conceived with donor sperm so will already have half sibs on his donor's side as well. Hopefully for that reason it won't be too hard for him to deal with. But I have no idea how to tell him in a way he will understand. I suppose I was thinking of waiting until he is a bit older? Not really sure though and would be interested to hear other people's ideas.


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## Tommi

Thank you so much for your wise words Upsy    They are so helpful.
Tomorrow's the day I start telling!
Txx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

I think the more confident you become in talking to your child about it the more confident up I become in telling other people. We only told close friends and fsmily. But now ad I make new friends I'm more confident in telling them. (Haven't yet cos the convo keeps changing   ) but I'm pound to tell his story if need be. 

I will be telling his head mistress once he hoes to school in case certain convos come up which could get complicated for him or the teachers  

I want to make a book for him but don't know how to do it. I want up add words and pics. An on line one. Anyone done it? He loves his my story book but would like to personalise it. Esoecially now we have ds2 via the stork


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Sorry for the typos


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## carrie lou

I made a book Mini but not online. I just got a scrap book from Smiths and wrote it myself with photos etc, I'm sure you can do it online though. It's a good idea


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## ceci.bee

Mini you can do it through photobox.com they are really easy to use and deliver quickly and have lots of price options. I keep meaning to do it, as real pics would be much better than the drawings in the book.


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## carrie lou

Hi ladies, I hope you are all well  


I'm just wondering if anyone has had a friend or relative accidentally spill the beans that their LO was donor conceived? I had a rather strange conversation with my mum recently that got me thinking. My mum told me my dad had very nearly let slip to my aunt and uncle that Z was conceived with donor sperm. Aunt and Uncle live abroad so have never met Z, and my parents were visiting them a few months ago. They asked about Z and who he looks like etc. My mum was saying suitably vague things like, "oh he has this strawberry blond hair which is interesting because his daddy did at that age too." Then my dad piped up, "but that wouldn't make any difference because..." And my mum had to quickly change the subject before he blurted out that DH is not genetically linked to Z!!!  


While we don't treat it as a big secret, we have only told a very select few that we used donor sperm. I don't think everyone needs to know since it is our very personal information after all. I just assumed my dad would realise this and keep his trap shut! Has anyone else experience of having other people find out against your wishes? How was the news received? I'm now worried that my dad has no clue about respecting our privacy and might blurt it out again, and I want to be prepared for how to handle it!


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## DizziSquirrel

Carrie Lou I did have a similar thing happen, my Dad is really keen ( and good) at family tree stuff with a current tree spanning 6 generations with several branches, however he is abroad ( emigrated to Canada) and so he sent me my copy of the tree and in the notes under my DD he'd put conceived with DE, I freaked thinking all who saw the tree could see the note and like you was panicy, as it was an avenue for the information I'd forgot to prepare myself for
he assured me they couldn't and offered to take it off, however I have asked him to leave it on for its got to be told eventually and the tree may be a good way in the future, 
but I have a feeling he's told my aunt & uncle here his siblings here in the UK, though no one has been brave enough to say it! ( me included ) 
I think to answer your question, you may need a quiet word in his shell re keeping that detail in confidence, until Z is ready to talk about it and share "his" information,


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## ceci.bee

Carrie hun        I really feel for you - once you have started to tell, you can't 'un-tell' anyone and you can't control what they tell other people, even if you ask them to respect your privacy. I think a gentle word with him is the way forward, but ultimately if it is not a secret it will come up in conversation periodically and you will have to be cool with it if it does to show Z that it is nothing to be bothered or worried about. Not easy.             Dizzie that sounds like a tough thing - I hadn't ever thought about family trees or what goes in them - they are less about genetics and more about family


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## daisyg

Hi everyone,
Interesting discussion!  Just to say that I have donor embryo conceived 6 year old twins.  I am a single mum so I told close family and close friends as I was trying for ages and also know that they would be fine with the information.  

None of my family ever really talk about the donor aspect much unless I bring it up.  I personally believe that waiting until the child is ready to decide to share 'their' information is leaving it a bit late.  I recently saw a panel of young donor conceived people talking about this at a meeting, and they all said they were really grateful that their parents had told close family and friends and relvant others for them from their birth, so that it wasn't their burden to tell and that these people already knew about their conception.  Later on they can then decide whether to tell their friends and others and how to share this information.

Best,

Daisy 
xxx


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## Tommi

That's really interesting Daisy! I had decided to tell people the truth from the beginning and have started that process. But I've been really surprised by the depth of questions I've had! I think it shows that people are becoming more aware of donor conception and are wanting to know more. Some friends I was a little nervous about telling - in their 80s and very churchy - were absolutely fine and said that their minister's daughter had done the same! My plan to give as little detail as possible has been blown out of the water as people have been genuinely interested and asked questions that it seemed crazy not to answer.
I feel very reassured by what you wrote  
Txx


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## ceci.bee

Daisy thanks so much for your post - we have also told quite a lot of people to 'normalise' things for J when he starts to understand a bit more about it - we decided after hearing at a DC network meeting about a couple that found it too hard to tell their parents and waited for their child to decide who he wanted to share with - and they found him reading his 'my story' book to his grandparents proudly, who were understandibly very shocked to find out that way. It is such a personal thing and I think we are all finding our way slowly through the maze with no right or wrong things to do, just what feels right for you and the child at the time. I recently told a close friend with Joshi in hearing shot deliberately, so he could hear me talking about it very matter-of-factly - i have no idea if that was the right thing to do but she was going on and on about he looks so like his dad and I felt now he is over 2 I couldn't go 'yes its strange isn't it' and then read Joshi his my story book - it felt a bit hypocritical so decided to share then and there


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

hmm not thought of that    I'm gping to have to start telling people. Someone came over the other day that we havent seen for ages and said "oh your boys look so different" i just laughed,


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## ElsieMay

Hi All
Interesting discussion - Daisy thanks for sharing the donor conception feedback.  I have told close friends and family, new friends if it seems relevant and they turn into good friends.  It is so reassuring to know adult DC people feel glad that the burden of telling was removed from them as it was something I have lost a lot od sleep over.  
Tottie - I remember you from the IM thread!! How time flies.
EM


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## Moragob

Hi

I have a 5month old daughter from DEIVF who we intend to tell, especially as close friends and family know our history.  However I have another dilemma - what do I say when well meaning strangers or not so close friends comment on how much she looks like me?  I usually feel really awkward and mumble something along the lines of "well she's got my colouring".  It hasn't happened terribly often but this morning a friends mother made the comment and my friend knows she is DE but her mother clearly doesn't.  I don't want to tell everyone as it is not appropriate and will probably make the other person feel awkward.

Any suggestions / comments?  What do you do in this situation?

Thanks
Morag


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## suitcase of dreams

Moragob - when this happens to me (and it does relatively often although I'm honestly not sure why as my two are double donor, have brown-blonde hair and brown eyes whereas I am a redhead with blue eyes - goes to show people see what they want/expect to see!!) then I simply smile. No response is really needed is it? I don't think people are looking for one necessarily, it's just one of those things they say...
equally I get the opposite - for eg when people (who do not know I am single) say 'oh, their lovely brown eyes must come from their father' - in which case I tend to say something along the lines of "yes, I suppose they must"   
at the end of the day if it's just strangers or vague aquaintances who you won't see regularly/ever again then it doesn't really matter what you do or don't say
I fully intend to tell my two their story, and indeed am generally quite open about the sperm donor aspect (being single with young twins does raise questions) but the egg donor aspect I see as being more something for the boys, family and close friends to know - in time the boys can choose to tell others if they want to, but I see no need for my hairdresser, the postman, the lady in the queue at the supermarket etc etc to know...so I just tend to be mostly non committal or make some vague response. As said, I think people are mostly just making conversation and not terribly interested in your answer anyway!
Suitcase
x


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## Lollipoppet

I agree with suitcase. Several people have commented on my twins looks (they are double donor). Some say ds looks like dh and dd looks like my mum...which is a bit daft, especially as both twins are blonde and blue eyed, and dh and I both have brown hair and brown eyes. I just answer according to my mood, normally something non committal like 'I suppose so' or just yes (they both have ears eyes and nose after all). Similarly I have had people comment on the differences and I casually mention that my mum has blue eyes. The only one that ever bothered me was someone who was rather accusatory and precise on pointing out that they don't look like me or my husband (it was in her tone)...but she was just a rude busy body so who cares what she thinks.


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## carrie lou

Yes this happens all the time to us. My little boy is a donor sperm baby and has strawberry blonde very curly hair. DH's hair is very dark and people often ask us where Zac gets his looks. I generally say something vague like "oh my hair was similar at that age". Occasionally someone will say they can see DH in him; which goes to show people will see what they want to see! One stranger in a cafe stared at him (and us) for ages before saying loudly "OMG, where DOES he get those curls from??" In a slightly accusing/suspicious tone, but I ignored them   It's no one else's business after all and I'm not going to start explaining our history to a total stranger.


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## Jacobsmum

Hi Morag (and everyone else!)

I think it's one of those things people just say, in some way. I agree that it's no-ones business but yours and your little one(s), I tend to just smile and say something vague (my little boy has such fine blond hair he looked bald till recently, has blue/grey eyes and I have dark brown eyes and hair (before it started to go grey) and people say 'he's got your eyes' or 'he looks just like you'.I say things like 'all his cousins were blond at his age as well' (entirely true). Best one was my mum, who knows and has discussed the whole double donor thing (in detail, at length...), when I was told he had a tongue-tie just after he was born she said 'just like your grandad!' - well, on one level yes... but then 'I wonder if he'll have his nose as well?' .... somehow I doubt it!! 

I have told some people (quite a few before he came along!) about the donor conception side of things, if it seemed to crop up or be relevant in some way (as a singlie, the donor sperm is pretty obvious unless I actually make up a phantom male, which seems like a whole lot more hassle than it would be worth). As little one gets bigger, it becomes more 'his' information, so I will be more selective about who needs to know.

I haven't yet had the opportunity to blame any bad habits on the donor - people tend to ask about the endearing curls or the cheeky mannerisms, not the delight in poking dog poo with a stick (definitely from the donor!) or extraordinary interest in the contents of his nostrils ('look look mummy - sticky!').

Apart from the epigenetics /possible aspects of his genetic code that my carrying him influenced, I also think that if we share 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees then surely as humans we share much more - related or not as 'biological family' we are all from the same human race. Maybe we share a common ancestor five hundred years ago (or five thousand, or five million) and that same bit of DNA coding is _that_ nose, or_ those_ eyes. Some people might want to see links or trace resemblances, others want to see the differences this new individual brings. Others just want to enjoy another day at the park playing in the water in the sun.

Jacob's mum x


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## Moragob

Hi All

Thanks so much for your replies, it really helps.  Most of the time I am ok just saying yes and/or she's got my colouring (as she really does) it just occasionally I have a bit of a wobble.  It is funny how people just see what they want to see.  

No matter what she looks like she is our beautiful daughter and we are just so content as a family, the decision to go for DEIVF was the best we have made.

Thanks again 

Morag


----------



## ElsieMay

Hi Morag
I had the same dilemma ref people saying my daughter looks like me - I am single and L is double donation.  I struggled emotionally as like you I had been very open with friends but not strangers etc. and I felt like I was lying in front of my child by agreeing she looks like me.  My Mum made a brilliant point to me that resolved the dilemma.  She said "Why would L not look like you?  The clinic took loads of photos of you and matched you to a donor who looks like you!"  I now confidently agree that L does look like me when people comment.  When L is older and understands genetics a bit more I can tell her the donor looked like me so of course it is OK to say I look like my Mum.  We have a picture of the male donor - she actually is the spit and image of him!
EM


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## Moragob

Hi ElsieMay

Thanks - that's a really good point which I never thought through properly.  It looks as though the clinic have done a good job... in lots of different ways.  

Morag


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## lilkim

i just read all your story i am starting my own journey i have pof partner lowcount got to do icsi any advice or how it will all work so new to this   excited also we have counselling on Sat Sunday


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## TamsinT

Apologies if this has been covered before - there are so many pages for this thread.
I've got a gorgeous baby born in May through DE.  The donor is a friend, and she will stay part of our son's life.  We've worked out what we are going to say to him, to explain about how he came into being, and who our donor is, but she also has a 2 year old son, and we've realized that we need to work out what to say to him about his half brother.
Can anyone advise?
Many thanks
x


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## daisyg

Hi Tamsin,

I would contact the Donor Conception Network who will have lots of experience of telling children of known donors and how to integrate this story into the children's lives.  There will be other members who have used friends or family as donors and they will be able to share how they dealt with telling other siblings.

Best of luck,

Daisy xxx


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## ivyf

Hi I've found it really helpful to read this thread over the last couple of years and whilst we have always been sure we would tell a child, I have worried about telling my parents who are elderly and religious. Well today at 13 weeks I did and as they didn't even know anything about all our ivf let alone DE I can't believe how well they took it. To be honest I'm not sure how much they understood (or wanted to) and that's fine, we can either go through it at a later time or they can just forget about it if they want. But I told them and it was 100 times better than I ever imagined. I feel like a huge weight has gone   I guess the lesson is don't underestimate those who love you.


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## Blondie71

Absolutely agree Ivy some of my biggest supporters are elderly religious aunts & uncles who I thought would disown me but I realised alot of what I was feeling was my own self-consciousness of what I was doing, now I realise people don't give a hoot half as much as I thought they would


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## Moragob

Ivy

That's just wonderful   I too have found similar reactions when I told people and can empathise with the great weight lifting.  I wish you a happy, healthy pregnancy.

Morag


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## carrie lou

Ivyf, that's great that it went so well telling your parents. I think often we build these things up so much in our own minds and when it comes to the reality, it's nowhere near as bad as we anticipated! That's been my experience anyway. Wishing you all the best for your pregnancy


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## Idlikemagic

hi peeps

We are expecting twin rule in the 2nd April through de at gennet. We are so excited to meet our girls and I feel 100% confident having read articles around epigebetics etc that our girls are truly mine/ours.

We have worn our heart of our sleeve throughout this journey and therefore even though our donor is non traceable to our girls, we plan to tell them young so there he never been a secret between us. I couldn't stand the truth coming out later as teenagers and face rejection at that point 

So here's my question what resources (perhaps from donor conception network) /methods have you used when sharing your story with your twins/singleton? 

I like the idea of talking about a seed growing and ending to water live feed the seed etc for it to grow 

Did you take photos and put in an album of your journey? Or did you leave out photos or of your trip to the country/clinic where they were conceived? 

I've taken photos etc just so I have the option but I'm unsure how much detail is best 

I've been keeping a pregnancy/birth/development book so they can see all their scans, photos of us pre birth, me pregnant etc etc 

Ang advice /ideas would be great fully received


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## Lilly83

Idlikemagic

I moved your post here as I saw you had no replies so far and the ladies here are best placed to advise 

Congrats on your twins  

L x


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## daisyg

Hello Idlikemagic,

Congratulations on your pregnancy!  Twins are very special!  In my own case, I joined the DCN just after my twins were born.  I have had their 'Our Story' book since they were about 2, and I first started reading it as a bedtime story for them then.  It was all very low key and simple and they liked the story very much.  Lots of people I know customised this book to suit their story e.g. pasting pictures of their bump, scans, family pics, etc  I think your ideas are all lovely and very personal to you and I think children like being the centre of attention and having a special book just for them.  

As they get older they may start asking more questions, and I found simple language (age appropriate) was fine.  I conceived in Spain, so I have very little information to give them, but that is ok.  I found just being honest and focussing on the positive (e.g. they have a loving mummy and nanny and other family etc.) does go a long way.

Your children may start to ask more questions as they get older and develop.  I think that is why telling your children is a process not a single event.  It ebbs and flows as they do and your gut instinct will help you know how much information they need at any particular stage.  

There are books available to help you tell - many from DCN.  You can also speak to other parents of DC children for support any time you feel you need a bit of help or to meet others like you.

I have told my children about the clinic in Spain, and they have said one day they would like to see it!  It may be that you include one of your picture in your book just for them to look at and maybe explain in more detail as they develop?  Keeping it simple early on felt right to me.  Also, primarily you are a mum of twins and your primary focus will always be that, and that will quite rightly take up so much of your time.

I feel so lucky to have my babies.  First and foremost I am their mum and they have no other and that is the most important thing - just the normality of that.  Being donor conceived is part of their story, but they are also normal children in a loving family who have chosen to tell.  

There is lots of support out there.  It sounds like you already have some lovely ideas for your children!

Best wishes,

Daisy xxxx


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## suitcase of dreams

I made a photo book (I used Photobox but you can use any of the online photo sites - Snapfish etc) for my twins (who are nearly 4) 
It has a picture of the clinic, one of the doctor I saw there, some embryos (not mine as I didn't take pics but one embryo looks much like another!!), scan pics, me with a bump and then them just after birth and finishes up with pics of them with key family members and their naming day with their not-god parents  

And some simple wording to explain how they came about (I'm single and had poor egss so they are double donor)

We read it at bedtime when they choose it - sometimes every night, then not for months on end. I don't push it, but the donor topic comes up now and then - perhaps more so for us as I'm single so they do ask about 'daddies' which wouldn't happen for a couple

Mostly they like the picture of the aeroplane (me on the way to the clinic) and me with a big bump - I think the donor stuff is over their heads at the moment but my thinking is that this is a story we will keep coming back to and as they get older they will understand more and ask more questions, but ultimately it will never be a shock to them to be 'told' as they will already have heard the story so many times

I am a member of DCN and did go to a Talking & Telling workshop - didn't find the workshop content itself taught me anything much if I'm honest, but the value was in talking to others in similar situations and hearing how they are sharing their stories with their children - this may be something you want to consider once your little ones are here/a bit older. 

The other thing I have done is consciously (via FF and DCN) build a network of other families 'like us' - I think it's important for my two to know that they aren't alone and that there are other children who are like them. I've made some really good friends this way and I hope our kids will be friends as they grow up and that they can support eachother. 

Good luck! And congratulations on your twins - twins are fab 
x


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## liz lemon

Hello everyone

I've also posted this on the not telling thread and had helpful responses, as I'm trying to get as much opinion, input, and thoughts on the issue as I can.

Even though I know ultimately we will have to make our own decision, I wonder if any of you can offer your thoughts on what you would choose if you were in my shoes. Here's my situation: I am in a same-sex relationship, and I will be using donor eggs. We will be going overseas for various reasons (not the anonymity issue) and as a result, any donated eggs/embryos will be anonymous. We have a choice between an untraceable anonymous sperm donor (we'd do embryo donation in this case), or having a male friend donate the sperm. There are no issues regarding trusting him, etc. He is genuinely happy to have as little or as much involvement as we/the child wishes, at whatever time in our lives. Looking at worst scenarios (hopefully whichever option I go for won't end in this, but you know what it's like) which is worse, the child never being able to trace its genetic heritage or the child not being able to have the relationship he/she wants with the known donor, be that more or less than he/she wants (if that makes sense)? Which option would you choose for the sperm donation, and why? I'm very conflicted, trying to work out what is best for the child, rather that what might suit us. Thoughts from anyone gratefully received!


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## BroodyChick

Hi Liz, I also used a known sperm donor and I'm an (open ID) egg sharer in the Uk.
It is hard to know how your child/ren will feel, ultimately you and your partner are the parents (is she going on the birth certificate?) but in case of a KD he'd be there to answer questions and there may be contact with other blood relatives (grandparents, cousins...). Have you had his sperm tested? No good wasting decent quality donor eggs if the sperm isn't up to scratch, also would you have to export this to the clinic or would he come along? Have a look at how the costs compare too, although in the long run it may be worth paying a higher price if you prefer an identifiable sperm donor. 
My situation with the donor isn't ideal but I'm still glad I have someone for my child to be in contact with rather than there being a big mystery. In your case, perhaps having one known gamete donor is a useful compromise, but I'd also suggest you take a read of Natalie Gamble's cases on her website.


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## liz lemon

Hi Broodychick

Sorry for the MASSIVE delay in replying; I've basically been tying myself in knots, trying to decide which route to take, and I sort of burned myself out a bit with it all, so had a mental break from it for a while. I'm still undecided, or rather I decide and then change my mind! Anyway, I wanted to say thanks so much for taking the time to reply to me; it was a huge help, and made me feel less isolated with it all!


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## BroodyChick

Liz, i found the Donor conception network a huge help.
You can phone them even before becoming a member and they've got their picnic coming up soon - plenty of people to meet who once had similar decisions to make (and their lovely kids)  x


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## liz lemon

Thanks for the DCN suggestion; I just had a look on their website, and it looks good. I can't see any info about the picnic though, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place. I'll check again!


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## bundles

Daisy it lets me reply   There's no reason this end that you shouldn't be able to too.


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## daisyg

How strange!  For a little while I could reply, not sure why!!
Just popped on to say that I think you may have to be a DCN member to go on the picnic?  Worth joining up though for those kind of events and to meet others like you!
Best D
xx


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## TiggerBounces

We're considering going to Spain for DE. I'm 44 and just had an ectopic following IVF for a year. We have one OE son aged 2.  We live in Australia although we're both English. we decided on Spain because of the chances of there being a closer match - i have Italian and Spanish heritage.  we also only have a limited amount of time and Spain offers a quicker and more doable process than the UK. And although I hate to say it the lower price is a factor after a year of IVf in Australia.

We have decided we would tell a DE child but what Im worried about is the anonymous part. I can't find much of a discussion around this stance, telling a child but them not being able to trace a donor... Any advice? How would you explain that decision? Is it ethical? in 20 years wh knows, DNA testing could be so advanced that a database of DE children could have been set up in Spain to enable them to trace half siblings, hypothetically speaking, who knows. Theres so much discussion and information on telling and knowing a donor, but I can't find much discussion or information on the pros of using an anonymous donor. Please help if this is the right place for posting. If not, Im sorry! x


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## daisyg

HI Tigger,

I have replied to you on this new thread:

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=337304.new#new

Daisy x


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## Dawnie22

Hi 

Not sure if this is thr right place but didnt get a reponse where I have put it before  

Hello everyone, 

I have recently become pregnant (7 weeks tomorrow) with husbands sperm and anon DE.
We have already told my children (17 and 14) that is donor and we plan on telling the child very early on with use of story books and the help of the DCN. 

I lost a lot of blood last week (heartbeat still seen) and ended up telling my Mum that I was pregnant. (Sadly I lost my Father 2 years ago.) She is very happy about the pregnancy. 

My question is when to tell her and my brother? I planned to tell all after the 12 week scan but my hubby wants her to bond with the baby first. What did you do this in this situation?

With regards to his family, sounds awful but his sister is so untrustworthy and *****y and although we are not ashamed, we also did not want the world and his wife to know before the child gets a chance to make a decision whether to tell its story or not! 

Thank you for any advice


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## Blondie71

Dawnie do you have to announce it to everybody? If you wish to keep it just to your nuclear family nothing wrong with that. I'll be honest now I'm 2 years into this I sometimes wish I hadn't been quite as vocal about using DS to outsiders purely for my sons sakes as I don't want them treated differently (they aren't atm but school may be different) I no longer mention it other than to those who already know x


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

We told our parents before we even used donor sperm. For us it was important they knew. Our siblings knew as well. We didn't tell other family members as we're not close and felt it wasn't their business. Hubby's gran wasn't told as she's in her 90's and ivf was one thing but donor sperm was 1 step too far  

Very close friends knew at the same time as our parents. 

I'm Not open with strangers either. Certainly wouldn't tell anyone I didn't know ,where I lived , for fear of local gossips!


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## WolfyOne

Hi Dawn

We told both sets of parents and our siblings after the failed MESA about the donor situation. At the same time we told our closest friends. Everyone has been fantastic about it and rooting for us. Since then, and especially since falling pregnant, we have told no one else. I suppose before it works it is very hypothetical but once you fall pregnant you are more aware of not wanting to tell further people so that it is our child's choice who knows outside of our inner circle.

If there are peeps you cannot trust and do not get on with, I would not let them know.

It is so difficult to know who to tell


----------



## carrie lou

Likewise, we told parents and siblings before we started treatment with donor sperm. We decided since we were going to be open with the child/ren that the important adults in their lives should know too. They all took it very well   We haven't told anyone else as it doesn't seem necessary. Remember you can't un-tell so unless you are sure you want someone to know, and that you can trust them with the knowledge, think very carefully.  

On a separate point. .. my eldest son (4) is starting school in September in a very small village school where everyone knows everyone - which is lovely, but I am concerned in case he mentions something about donor conception at school, what the reaction will be. He's never spoken about it outside of our home before so maybe I am panicking over nothing but then again as he gets older it might be something he talks about more? Has anyone else encountered issues like this once children start school?


----------



## Dawnie22

Thank you everyone, that has been a help. I have decided to keep it very tight, as you say once its out there it can't be undone. 
Its sad to say that my SIL is such a judgemental person and i don't want my child to be treated differently. She already said to me when i first mentioned DE last year "oh i couldn't do that" with a horrid look on her face and then when my Hub told her we were pregnant that was her first question! 
My kids know and they understand that it is not their story to tell. I will tell my Mum and my brother as they won't tell anyone and won't judge us. 
It is sad that at such a joyous time i have to hold back and think of this but that is the position i am left in by my SIL.
Trouble is i have told my husbands dads partner but she is so nice and she said she won't tell his Dad and that it is up to us but i don't think hubby will tell him as he will tell his sister (my sil) 

Carrie Lou I am sorry I can't help with that issue at school but i doubt very much the other kids will even understand! Let me know how it goes though .
Wolf _ thank you of your reply and i agree is is hard to know who to trust but i do think deep down you'll know!

Mighty Mini - Thats my issue when to tell my mum, am too early now as anything can happen and then it wasn't worth telling. 

Blondie - I know what you mean but i guess if you are always in the telling camp then it is going to be known, i strongly believe in being truthful and that the children will not suffer as much as if they found out later in life. 

Thanks Ladies


----------



## suitcase of dreams

carrie lou - my double donor conceived twins (I'm single and needed both donor egg and sperm) start school in sept too. They have been at a childminders/nursery since they were tiny. 

They know their 'story' inasmuch as they know that "mummy wanted a baby and a doctor helped her find a man to give his seed and a lady to give her eggs which the doctor mixed together to make tiny babies that he put in mummy's tummy"
- they have never talked about this to anyone though, it has simply never come up in conversation. We read our book about it, and talk about it from time to time but they have never talked about it otherwise (at least not that I am aware!) I have never said it's something not to be talked about, but to be honest I don't think they're that interested! With me being single they know they don't have a daddy but if that does come up in conversation they just say so - "we don't have a daddy, but we do have a...." and then name all their aunts, uncles, cousins etc, by which time most people have given up anyway!

I told the childminder/nursery about the donor situation and I intend to tell their teacher too - that way if it does come up a) they won't be surprised and not quite know how to react and b) I can actually brief them on what I would like them to say so that the message is consistent

Slightly different for me being single I expect in that it is more likely to come up once other kids start saying "well, you must have a daddy somewhere" but I don't really mind if other people know - it is what it is and that's that really, it's just another fact about someone, much the same as having a certain colour hair, or a birthmark or whatever. As the boys get older I will gently try to explain to them that if they prefer to keep it private that's up to them and if they don't want to talk about it, they can say so but as I say, so far I haven't really needed to do that as they just don't talk about it - they are way too busy talking about dinosaurs, pirates, fire engines or whatever else it is they are into on a given day!

Incidentally they will also be going to a very small village school (only 40 in the entire school) so I'm sure our family set up will be the source of talk for a bit, but these things soon pass over when the next bit of gossip comes in!

Rather a long reply but I would give some thought as to at least mentioning it to his teacher so that if by chance he does bring it up at school, they are prepared  We have a home visit before the boys start school so I plan to mention it then

x


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Carrie I was going to tell his teacher as he started talking about sperm and eggs   but then he stopped talking about it so I didn't in the end. But I might mention it to his head teacher as she's really approachable.


----------



## BroodyChick

I wonder if anyone has some input because people can be so ignorant about the whole 'donor' issue. I'd mentioned to a few people when I went through IVF as an egg sharer, and two people thought I was being a surrogate!!
Also my son is conceived via a known donor, which I have mentioned to GP and also the nursery (to explain there's no 'daddy' and his bio father is unlikely to ever pick him up), however I also feel this is causing confusion and not really helping.
I do want it to be clear to people that my son was very much wanted (by 3 adults: I also had a partner at the time of my FET), and not an 'accident', and that his bio father and myself were never a couple.

Is this too complex for people to process? Should I just stick to bare facts (we do occasionally see the k.donor) and let people believe my son's parents broke up? He has some half siblings (via other donations), none of whom he's met but may do in future. This isn't really relevant to anything, but again may come up at some point. Many thanks!


----------



## Lilly83

Hi Lorsha

This threads just for ladies who decide to tell the child about the use of donor, we ask that if these aren't the views you share that you post on the other thread for 'not telling' as per instructions on the first post of each thread

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=332957.0

Congrats on your little one

L


----------



## Lilly83

Broody 

It's crazy how much people don't get about ivf especially donor conception, I had a full on convo with someone at work recently and she quizzed me about endo and why I needed Ivf, I explained my womb was fine but I had premature menopause but she was convinced I was having a surrogate too 

She even said after I clarified I was carrying 'so have you have your womb removed?' I felt like saying yes clearly I plan on carrying the damn thing in my handbag for 9 months!

L x


----------



## Blondie71

Hi lorsha this is the "telling" thread for those who have thought long and hard and chosen that telling is the right way forward for their family circumstance, so the "not telling" thread is probably the best place to discuss your opinions so as not to cause offence on either side of the debate.

Broody I personally would keep it as your own business for your inner circle as much as poss, let them assume whatever they like you owe them absolutely NO explaination whatsoever, and tbh they will probably just make some other judgement on your character or your mental health etc as that's just human nature I'm afraid, sadly people just cannot get their heads round why we would ever do this esp alone, it's an alien enough concept to alot of folks as I've discovered


----------



## Lilly83

Moved the post over to the relevant thread 

If you are posting for the first time on here please read the info on page 1 of this thread specially....

*Any posts belittling or disputing the choices others have made will be removed*

L x


----------



## Persipan

Lilly83 said:


> This threads just for ladies who decide to tell the child about the use of donor eggs...


Just for the sake of clarity, it's surely also for women and/or men who decide to tell about the use of donor sperm? Otherwise why is it under donor conception rather than donor eggs?


----------



## daisyg

Hi Persipan,

Yes, you  are right.  It is a thread for telling for anyone using donor gametes (sperm, egg, embryo) whether in a couple or single.  It just happens that the majority of people discussing telling on this thread have happened to be using donor eggs.
I am sure Lilly didn't mean to exclude anyone - it's just that lately it's been all about the eggs!!

Best,

D xx


----------



## bundles

Hi Persipan  

As Daisy has said, this thread is for anybody who is telling about their use of donor eggs or sperm. It was just a slip of the keyboard after a long day  

xx


----------



## Lilly83

Thanks ladies  

Yes to clarify its for any donor recipient men/women/egg/sperm/embryos. Force of habit as I do the donor egg and donor conception boards and not donor sperm it was just force of habit 

I will edit my post to save any confusion 

L


----------



## Em2008

Apologies i'm sure this has been covered before but there are so many pages for this thread... I am half way through   so in the meantime I thought I would ask for tips/advice/ideas....

Our little boy is now 1 (double donor) and thinking I should start putting together a book or scrapbook to start reading him at bedtime. I bought the DCN book 'our story' and found it brilliant, wording is great etc but it is a shame you have to skip a few pages depending on your situation so don't find it practical. 

So just wondering if anyone has any tips/ idea they can share.... Did you personalised the actual DCN book? If so how? did you add pictures or comments? or did you do one from scratch using wording from the dcn book? Or any other ideas? I am probably overthinking this   

One last question, when did you start reading to them? Conscious my little boy is still very young. 

Thanks xx


----------



## Blondie71

Em I *think* over on the donor sperm board there is a whole discussion about the scrapbooks and also novel story book ideas people have made for their kids to personalise to their family circumstance, I kept that thread in my memory for future use as it had lots of practical advice too


----------



## Em2008

Oh great thanks Blondie I will go and have a look for it now


----------



## MissMayhem

I would do an amalgamation of all your questions Em2008! So would use the wording I wanted from DCN book and add my own words and pictures/colloquial language too. Places like Photobox are great for making books, there are loads of similar sites and Groupon will often have offers so they don't have to cost too much then either. Good luck  xx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

I didn't find the DCN book much good tbh - I made my own using Blurb (but you can use Photobox or any of the other photo sites which let you create your own book)
I put in pictures of me (am single parent using double donor), the clinic, the doctor, me with bump, them just after birth, other family members etc and wrote a few simple words on each page. Started reading it to them (have twin boys) when they were about 2 (would have started earlier but it took me until then to get the book sorted!) 
Much of it goes over their heads still but they love the pics of me with big bump and them as tiny babies and I think the story is slowing sinking in
Is a good resource to show childminders, teachers (mine start school in Sept) too if you want them to be aware of what the children know about their 'story'
good luck with it!
x


----------



## carrie lou

I made a personalised book for Z (now 4) for his first birthday and am in the process of doing the same for A (1 in a few weeks   ). I used some of the words from the DCN book but edited slightly to be more personal. Illustrated with photos etc.   


Suitcase, I hadn't thought of showing it to the teacher, that's a good idea if the topic should come up


----------



## suitcase of dreams

having not read it for a while we read our book last night (I only read it when they choose it for bedtime story) - they are still not interested really in the donor side of things at all and much more interested in mummy going on an aeroplane (I had tx in Czech) and how they came out of my tummy - just how much of a C-section is it appropriate to explain to a four and a half year old?!!

my thinking on showing the teacher is then she knows exactly what the boys are being told/know so she won't be surprised if they mention seeds, eggs, donors, doctors etc should the topic ever arise....

x


----------



## Bubbles77

Hi all

New to this post but it has been playing on my mind because of some recent tv shows showing the donor child's point of view. 

I tell my twin boys in the car on the way to daycare the story of mummy and daddy going halfway around the world to find a donor so they could be born etc etc. I want them to know the truth, and our very close family knows, and they are loved by everyone for exactly who they are. 

But I still struggle with the whole world eventually knowing that we used donor eggs. Clearly that is my issue and I have residual feelings of being a failure or defective. The irony surely is that keeping it even partly a secret makes it more worrying than if I was totally open about it. I worry that my inherent feelings of shame will subconsciously make my sons feel ashamed. 

My first question is, how did everyone else get through this? (counselling of course, but any other suggestions are welcome...) 

My second question is, have any of your children grown up always knowing they were donor conceived but become upset by it at some point? Or otherwise upset at being unable to find out more about the anonymous donors and their own heritage? 

Thank you. Aren't we all so blessed there are amazing people out there prepared to help us become parents!


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Bubbles hun, why should the whole world have to know? You can choose who you tell until your boys are old enough to 'own' the information themselves and then they can choose - being open with them (and a few select family and friends) doesn't mean the world has to know   


For me this is the difference between secret and private - it's not a secret, I'm open about it when appropriate and to whom it's appropriate but it is private and not necessarily something everyone needs to know about. 


Mine are only 4.5 so can't help with the issue of older children - I figure we'll cross that bridge as and when/if we come to it. 


I have had quite a bit of counselling and am open to going back for more if I feel I need it in future. The other thing which really helps me is spending time with other people who have used DE (or in my case single women who have used both egg and sperm donation). It gives me the chance to talk about all this stuff with people who understand and have experienced it, and has the added bonus of the boys growing up with friends who are 'like them' 


DCN has meet ups if that would help (I 'met' most of my friends on here though and then transitioned to meeting in real life) 
Good luck 


Sending   
x


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## Bubbles77

Suitcase of Dreams that is such a lovely perspective. I totally agree with the secret/private distinction, I just hadn't thought about it applying to this before. 

And you're right, it is my sons' information (not mine) - and they can choose how and when to disclose it to other people and I will support them in that. 

I will look into a local equivalent of DCN (I'm not in the UK).

Thank you for your thoughts. You have really helped me gain some perspective.


----------



## Em2008

Thanks for all ideas etc going to do his own little book


----------



## ivyf

You know what,  people we have told have amazed me with their open mindedness and I feel a bit bad for ever doubting it. All have embraced the idea of DE as a wonderful gift, so much so that I've started canvassing their opinions on what to do with our remaining embryos (particularly DPs family as the are genetically linked to them) And so far everyone has said it would be great to donate them - still not decided  if we will but I never imagined being able to have those conversations. The only blip I've had in talking about DE was a friend who referred to the donor as mum but quickly corrected themselves. It was just a mistake in finding the right words and nothing more but I was surprised how much it stung. But I am so happy at the way everyone has reacted to the whole thing and it has filled me with confidence about telling our LO


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## K jade

bubbles i agree with the others, why would the world need to know?
another thing you have to remember is 'being conceived by donor eggs' will only mean something to others who have gone through IVF, or have some kind of IVF knowledge due to working in that field professionally. 

for people who haven't struggled to conceive this will completely fly over their head and mean absolutely nothing to them whatsoever. 
it always amazes me how little people know about human re production let alone assisted reproduction. 
x


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## carrie lou

Ivyf I didn't think you could donate embryos created with donor sperm or eggs? I asked our clinic at one point and they said you're not allowed to because you'd be creating another family from that donor, and in the uk each donor is limited to 10 families. But perhaps if your donor hasn't reached their max, it might be possible   


I do agree that in general everyone we have told about the donor sperm have been very supportive. Even DH's family who are strict Catholics! I did have my doubts about them when I was pregnant for the first time, but once the baby was here that all melted away and MIL in particular is completely besotted with our little ones, the fact they have no genetic link to her seems entirely irrelevant


----------



## Surfergirl

Hi everyone,

I have been reading through and getting some lovely ideas from this thread! My DD is from DE and is now 30 months old so I am looking to start drip feeding her story to her. She is from treatment in the UK so can apply for the donors details later on if she so wishes. 

Suitcase - I have done exactly the same as you regarding her childminder. Told her so that if my DD does, at any point, ask her about it then she can respond appropriately (and it isn't a shock!!).

I think the scrap book ideas are great! xx


----------



## Gaby2501

Hi, I am relatively new here and have only read through part of this thread so far! 

I am on the waiting list for an ED. I am about to change directions with that and look for an altruistic donor rather than egg share. 

I kind of feel I am jumping the gun massively here. But assuming I am lucky enough to fall pregnant with a DE is where I am coming from! I have a daughter who was conceived naturally, she is 3 and I am looking for any ideas about what to tell her and when. This is my main concern about DE at the moment. I am staying in th UK for this as I would like total openness and would like any potential child from DE to be able to trace their genetic origins/ half sibling etc. I don't intend in telling everyone, but a few people very close to me know this is the way we are heading and I would like to keep in like that for a long while.

I was just wondering if others are or have been in the same situation? My daughter is very extrovert and chatty so I would be apprehensive about telling while I was pregnant. But how do I tell her, what do I say? I have read about the My story book from the DC network which I love the sound of. I have thought of maybe doing one for my daughter in preparation and that could maybe give her a comparison of similarities and differences. 

Ideas and advice would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## carrie lou

Hi all, this thread has been so quiet, I hope everyone is ok. I have a question that is not directly related to donor conception but thought some of you ladies might have some good ideas.

Yesterday was the 2nd anniversary of Arlo being thawed and transferred (he was a frozen embryo, now 15 months old) and I mentioned this in front of Zac, my eldest, who is 4. To my surprise he got a bit anxious, asking things like, "Are you going to put Arlo in the freezer mummy? I don't want Arlo to go away." I tried to explain the concept of ivf to him but probably just confused him even more! So I was wondering whether any of you have found a way to explain ivf to a child? Obviously Zac knows a baby grows from an egg nd sperm and that we needed sperm from a donor. I was thinking I could sort of build on this knowledge to tell him how his brother was made in a clinic - or am I being too ambitious for a 4-yr-old and should leave it until he's older?


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Personally I'd leave it a while. With the my story book, Lucas knows he was made from an egg , donor sperm and a doctor helped.  At their age they are very matter of fact aren't they? I'm not sure how much of 'putting in a freezer' they'd get. Depends on the child i suppose. If he's anxious about it then I'd leave it til he's older. 
If Lucas had heard that then he'd think it was hilarious but that's him  

Just go at his pace and you've just got to judge what he understands and go from there.


----------



## Godiva

I know people who have used this book: http://www.amazon.com/Recipes-How-Babies-are-Made/dp/9709410342 . It basically says that for a baby you need a sperm, an egg and a womb. It then goes on to the different variations, first with IVF, then on to donor gametes, surrogacy and even adoption. They said their kids loved the page with the test tubes best  . I do not know if people here know the book? It might help explaining frozen babies  .

/links


----------



## miamiamo

Hi, while checking the stats i come across these recommendations and thought it might be useful: eggdonationfriends com/egg-donation-guide/how-to-talk-about-egg-donation xx 

/links


----------



## ceci.bee

Hi everyone, not sure who in here is a member of the DCN, but this just came into my inbox. It is part of some research that the donor sibiling registry has done with the group in Cambridge, and this is the summary of the answers to one question in a questionaire, with the question to young adults conceived using a donor ' "*What would you like other people considering using donor gametes or donated embryos to know that you have learned?"

*https://www.donorsiblingregistry.com/sites/default/files/files/305%20Advice%20from%20Offspring(1).pdf

it makes very interesting reading, I guess from the way the answers are phrased most are from the US and most have been conceived using anonymous donation, but certainly it makes the very strong case for using ID-identifiable donors rather than anonoymous........if you have a cup of tea and some time, have a read through.

Ceci  

/links


----------



## RB76

Thankyou for posting this, it makes interesting reading, although difficult, when you have used an anonymous donor.

Am I right in thinking the donor sibling registry may still enable children to meet their genetic siblings assuming those siblings also know the fact that they are donor conceived? IE they can have blood tests and be connected in that way? And of course what new laws may exist in 10/20 years time..?


----------



## daisyg

Hi RB76,

DSR is a private American voluntary registry connecting half-sibs, usually by way of donor number (which is given at US clinics and sperm banks).  It can also connect donors and offspring, also by number.  No DNA testing is made via the site but people can choose to do this privately.  DSR is useful in the UK to those who have used an American donor.


The HFEA is the UK statutory registry holding details of all treatments by assisted conception, including details of all donors and offspring. 18 year olds can register their interest in being in touch with half-siblings by mutual consent.  DNA testing not used as HFEA data base can match on clinic information. There is also the Donor Conceived Register in the UK. The register is available throughout the UK and is intended for anyone who donated in a UK clinic or was conceived following treatment in a UK clinic before August 1991. However because of storage and distribution practices it is possible that donor-conceived born until December 1992 could find donor-conceived half-siblings or their donor on the register.  

I guess we don't know what will happen in the future.  I have DC children with anonymous donors from Spain, but maybe one day we will have a way of matching DNA to find siblings/half siblings?  Who knows!!

Daisy xxx


----------



## Caroline1759

Hi everyone
I'm looking for advice. I'm currently pregnant with my first child using DS. I made the choice to go for single motherhood after a failed relationship. Although I have met someone new and am dating, since becoming pregnant.

My question is around dealing with family members amongst others. I've been very open about the conception from the start. And plan on being open with my child. Initially i just told close family and they were generally very supportive. However I think in all honesty, because of my age, they didn't really think the fertility treatment would work. Now that it has and the pregnancy is in full swing I'm noticing some slightly odd reactions from them. Its almost like some of them don't want to acknowledge it or just seem a bit 'off' about it. I'm not too worried about my own feelings getting hurt but I am starting to have some anxiety that my child might not be treated the same way as my siblings (I have 3) children, who were all conceived naturally within marriages. I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this? I think part of it might be my family having to also accept that I am changing and my role in the family will change. I am the eldest of 4 and unlike all my siblings never married. I think I was pretty much written off' by them as someone who would never get married or have kids (despite the fact I always wanted this) and I've sort of had this secondary role in supporting everyone else in the family with their studies, careers, relationship issues, child care etc. Now I'm stepping out of that role and focusing more on me and the pregnancy and my future life with my child, I get a sense that my family are, I hesitate to say resentful as that's probably too strong a word, but not quite able to deal with it. Last weekend I was at a family lunch at my sister's where there were some extended family members of her husband present. We all just sat down to eat when my mum decided to announce to my sisters husbands family that I was expecting (I'm not showing yet so they didn't know). There then followed this very awkward conversation when they asked me who I was seeing. I felt very put on the spot in front of the whole family but nevertheless told them I'd used a donor and who I used and my reasons for doing it etc etc. I was happy to talk as much as needed and answer any questions but it became obvious really quickly that the whole family felt really awkward about it. They all sat there in complete silence. It was like you could have cut the atmosphere with a knife. It really brought it home to me that this is something really out of the ordinary and that a lot of people don't know how to react when you tell them. 

Just wondered if anyone else, particularly single people, have experienced this?

Thanks

C


----------



## ivyf

Hi Caroline congratulations on your pregnancy your little one is due just over a year after mine and your life is going to change in the most wonderful way   I'm sorry I have no experience to help you with this as my family were unanimously wonderful about us using de but I just wanted to say I feel for you and I hope you get more positive responses from individual family members xx


----------



## bundles

Caroline   you may find some words of advice from the helpful ladies in the Singles section.

Bundles x


----------



## daisyg

Hi Caroline,

I have to say I was very lucky with my family who were all very supportive and I was very open with them and all my friends. It must be really hard to be pregnant and contending with your family's attitude. As single parents it is great if we can get support from at least our mums for when the baby comes as that is where you need practical help. However that doesn't always happen and I guess we have to build up our support networks outside our family. It may be that until the baby comes, you may have to just ignore all of this and step back a bit and focus on you and becoming a solo mum. You can still be friendly and keep contact with your family, but just get on with your life and hope that later they will understand a little bit more and are less judgemental?

The things that helped me was joining my antenatal class where I met other mums who I stayed in contact with after my babies were born. You will find that when your baby comes, you will make a lot more networks from the mum community!

The other thing that has really helped me is joining DCNetwork, especially their solo mum groups - they have a network of about 600 single women who are a great source of support for you before and during pregnancy and when you have a child. Other good sources of support are Gingerbread etc.

DCN produce a book especially to give your family which explains more about what donor conception means and what you are going through and it might be an idea to give that to them to read? Here is a link.

http://www.dcnetwork.org/products/product/talking-friends-and-family-2-booklet-bundle

Keep in touch with the single women and pregnancy boards on Fertility Friends where you can make group and individual contacts. There is lots of support out there and others who have been through it and come out the other side!!

Do ask any questions here or on the single mums board.

Best of luck,

Daisy xxxxx

/links


----------



## bundles

Daisy, Caroline isn't technically single



Caroline1759 said:


> Hi everyone
> I'm looking for advice. I'm currently pregnant with my first child using DS. I made the choice to go for single motherhood after a failed relationship. Although I have met someone new and am dating, since becoming pregnant.
> Just wondered if anyone else, particularly single people, have experienced this?
> Thanks
> C


but I suggested she post on the Singles board as they would have had more experience telling about their use of DS 

Bundles x


----------



## daisyg

Oh! Sorry Caroline and thanks Bundles!   

I guess the issues have similarities for both single women and couples in terms of family acceptance, although it sounds as if there is an issue with you stepping out of the role you have played in your family for so long as the single one who is there for everyone else? They may be feeling confused and even angry that you have forged another path which is not how they see you or in fact need you to be to make them feel comfortable.  Change can be really hard for some families.  Your family just may take longer to come round of course.  Even if they don't, the important thing is looking after yourself and making a life for your baby for the future.

I would still recommend joining DCN and the books for support.  I do know that there are single women members who met partners while pregnant so could offer you support and advice?

You may feel later that some counselling would be helpful if these issues continue to worry you?

Best,
Daisy xxxx


----------



## RB76

Hi Chrissy Lou

This was a worry for me too. We hadn't even told any of our family we were having fertility treatment never mind DE!

For me I didn't want to go through it all face to face at first and I preferred to write a letter to my parents telling the whole story of our treatment. Once they had read it all we talked about it but since then it's kind of become irrelevant. They've always been very supportive and just love our DD to bits.

It's a hard one announcing a pregnancy and then all the other side of it too. If your family know about your struggles perhaps you could start with that and explain about trying DE.

Good luck x


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Both our families knew we were having ivf from the start. Then once we decided on donor sperm we told them that straight away too. We were up front right from the start. No point hiding it.


----------



## Moragob

Tell when you are comfortable.  We told different people at different stages (my mother when my daughter was 8 months old, his mother when we went to Barcelona for treatment) for varying reasons mainly our own sanity.  Just be aware that they may talk so ensure you don't allow people who are important to you to find out third hand.  

Good  luck
xx


----------



## carrie lou

Chrissy Lou, congratulations   in my experience the idea of telling family is far more nerve wracking than the reality. We knew from fairly early on that donor sperm was our only option so we told our families pretty much at the start. My DHs parents are very strict and old fashioned catholics and he was terrified about telling them - but in the end we just came out with it, and to our surprise they took it in their stride, or at least seemed to. I still suspect they may be living in denial but that's their lookout, we have been honest from the start. Just do what feels right for you. I think your mum might surprise you. Good luck


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## KLconfused

Hi all
Another question - sorry!
We have used double donor and baby is due in October. I have a few sentences about the ED given me by the clinic - age, height, interests etc. The sperm donor was from a website (Fairfax) that I ordered and got delivered to the IVF clinic we used. It came from Canada. There was a childhood photo of the donor and family history, a short piece of him talking and a few sentences on interests etc. My plan originally was to print all this stuff off and put it in an envelope for baby when he is old enough to want it. I have kept putting off getting the folder ready as I am so worried something will go wrong with the pregnancy. However at 31 weeks I also think I need to just get it out the way now so I can never think about donors ever again. 

Have any of you put an envelope of details aside for your child for when they are older or are you thinking the child can go to the HFEA or similar and get those details if they want them? I'm wandering if I could give the child something about his genetics he might be less likely to want to meet the actual donors.


----------



## Sapphire952

Hi ladies, 

KL - that sounds like a good idea. Put the information you hold securely away so it is available for a future point in time, I think we will do the same.  

I'm now 32 wks pregnant and other than my best friend, no one knows we are using DS.  DH and I said we'd talk about it if I ever got pregnant so that when time came to tell it was in the context of good news.. However, we haven't really talked about it since I've been pregnant and not sure how to broach it.  Should we try and tell parents before baby arrives or is there any harm in waiting a while and telling them when LO (hopefully safely) arrives and is a bit older? Welcome your experiences.


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

If you got a donor from xytex can you get Info from HFEA? What info do they give? I wish we'd got a letter now. I'm actually getting more curious as he gets older in what he looks like too 😁😆


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## Blondie71

I'm super curious about looks too, My boys do some things i've never seen done in my family and they just have to be his traits, i'd love to just grill him for all the questions I have oh and check him out naked head to toe lol not asking too much right 😂


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## Aspi

Are the donors still anonymous abroad? Thanks x


----------



## [email protected]

Not all, but with banks like Cryos, you can choose from anon/non-anon. If sperm/eggs are being imported to a UK clinic, you have to choose non-anon, but if importing for home AI, or having treatment outside the UK, then you can choose anon. HTH!


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## Aspi

Thanks lifebegins - what if you had treatment abroad? X


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## RB76

Most of the donors abroad are anonymous as far I know. Ours certainly is / was.


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## apples2014

Hi Aspi

I am not an expert on this but I am pretty sure that egg donor and embryo adoption are anon in Europe regardless of what country you have treatment in, except the UK. I know for sure in Greece and Czech Republic it's anon (coz I've had treatment in both these countries). But I think, and it's a think, there are clinics in Scandania where donor sperm can be ID release though so depending on what element of donor it is there are ways for donor to not be anon in Europe. 

We have moved onto donated embryos (yet to work, but I am keeping the faith) and DH and I feel it's a shame that we can't get id release, our clinic are pretty generous with donor info though, but for the purpose of telling future child it's a shame it's anon. It's very, very sad that ivf in the UK is just too expensive for us compared to Europe. 

I hope this waffle helps answer your question though! 

Apples x


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## Godiva

In many European countries donor gametes are anonymous by law. In some countries, like UK, donor has to be ID-release/non-anonymous (eg. Holland, and I believe Sweden). In some countries you can use a donor you bring along yourself (eg Belgium) if you do not want anonymous. Best place for information is probably the clinic you are looking at treatment for.


----------



## Aspi

Thanks Apples 
I thought so. I am quite happy about the situation but I do agree that The uk is too expensive & we have been forced to go elsewhere. 
Xx


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## ivyf

Hello our little girl is 16 months and I've been telling her about how we got her since she was born but I'd now like to make her a book. I've read on here about how others have done this but can't find the threads or remember what was said. I thought the DCN had a book you could customise but can't find anything on their website about one. I'd like to have pictures of her and us and her scan pictures as well as an explanation of egg donation and our donor. Any pointers gratefully received 🙂


----------



## Blondie71

Ivy check the DS thread as there was quite a discussion on this a few months back and some really nice unique ideas from those who have made their own to tell their child's story


----------



## ivyf

Fab I'll have a look thanks Blondie


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## carrie lou

Ivyf, I made a personalised book for my eldest little boy and am still in the process of doing one for my youngest 😊 I included photos, scan pics etc. Happy to chat more about it if you want some ideas


----------



## Blondie71

What kind of book is it you've used carrie, scrapbook type or other? I am going to do one as well and include neonatal journey too as have a memory box full of stuff from pretreatment until birth and much more interesting to see their stuff with some memories attached.


----------



## carrie lou

I used a scrapbook Blondie


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## Blondie71

That's my plan 😊 thanks x


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## ivyf

carrielou did you put words in yours? That's the bit I'm struggling to get my head round. And I have a photo of the donor as a child but am thinking not to include that but to keep it for if they ask later,  Seems confusing to put a picture of an adult as a child?? Thanks x


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## carrie lou

Yes I put words in it. I based it loosely on the wording in the My Story book but tweaked it a little to fit our own circumstances. And added more personal bits e. g. Mummy had scans to check how you were growing (with scan pics and photos of me with bump) and Mummy and Daddy were busy getting things ready for you (photos of nursery and baby clothes etc). Then photos of zac as a newborn being cuddled by various people and a bit about how happy everyone was to meet him at last   


I did include the child photo of our donor and Zac hasn't seemed confused by it at all.


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## ivyf

Oh thanks so much Carrie Lou maybe I should get the scan book. And that's interesting about the donor photo will have anothe rrhink about that 🤔


----------



## Blueflower

Hi! I am expecting twin boys any time now, and have been looking at different books for them about egg donation to help them understand. There's a cute one about rabbits but it says the mummy rabbit didn't have any eggs which isn't our situation. I've looked on the donor conception network but you can’t see the content of the books before you buy them. Can anyone recommend a good one please?


----------



## TriciaR

Hi, I know this thread hasn't been used for some time but just on the off chance some of you get notifications I thought I'd still post.

Can anybody recommend a story book we can read to our 4-5yr old about IVF using donor sperm please? (my husband has a medical condition and doesn't produce sperm)

I've only really seen "The Pea that was Me" but I don't like it.

Thanks


----------



## northernmonkey

Hi Tricia,


We have 'My Story' which is available through dcn. It doesn't talk about ivf specifically, just the donor aspect. 


NM


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## OliviaFL

Hi
Any suggestions on how and when to tell your child you used donor egg. Our child is now 3 and I have no idea how to approach this and how to tell her. Thank you


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## Trix100

Hi All,

My donor conceived son is now 9 years old.  I first broached the subject with him when he was 6.  We are in the unique situation in that my son was born through a donor egg and 2.5 years later I fell pregnant naturally with his sister.  I always knew that I wanted to tell him.  My husband was against it but I felt it was important in that many of my family and friends knew.

We were sitting in the car waiting for my husband to come out of work and I decided to plant the seed.  I told him he was very special.  That I had yearned for him for a long time and I could not have a baby of my own.  I said an angel gave me an egg and put it in my tummy and he grew.  My body grew him and he was the most wanted and loved child.  I also told him that while he was inside my tummy he fixed me and that his how his sister came along.  He was very happy when I told him this.    

I mentioned it again to him when he was 8, again we were alone in the car (not sure why it’s always the car).  I explained to him about how babies were made as he had been recently asking.  I reminded him of the previous conversation that we had and I told him how he was made was differently (again the angel giving me the egg).  His response was ‘then you are not really my Mummy’ and he got teary.  I am not going to lie, I felt like my heart was being ripped in two.  I said of course I am your Mummy, you wouldn’t be here if it hadn’t been my body that had grown you, my blood ran through your body in the womb. I grew your brain, heart, lungs, kidneys (he’s a very bright boy and loves science).  I joked that he likes grapefruit so much because I ate it all the time when he was in my tummy. I said he was extra special because he was so wanted and it was the happiest day of my life when he was born.  He then smiled and gave me a hug.  He then started asking a million questions about sex and how gross it was and that was the end of it.

He has mentioned it a few times since although I don’t think he has a full understanding of it all as he is still young.  I plan to talk to him about it again in the next month or so.

I’m not going to lie, it was hard.  The first time I mentioned it to him my heart was beating out of my chest.  But I made sure it was a relaxed and cheerful conversation.  And it was just me and him.  I did look a books but none seemed right for him.  I also wanted to be the one to explain to him as I know how to gauge his emotions.  I can honestly say he is fine with it all, it may get harder when he gets older but I am hoping that as I have had the conversation with him at such a young age it won’t be such a huge shock when he understands the reproductive process.

I have kept all his donor details (I have never looked at them since I was pregnant).  I don’t want to as he is my child.  I have also kept a few letters for him that I wrote when he was born (not mentioned the donor side, just how happy and in love with him I am).  And there isn’t a day that goes by that he doesn’t tell me he loves me.  I wouldn’t change him for the world but if I am honest I wish I didn’t have to burden him with the news of his conception. 

I just wanted to share for all the Mums who are pregnant and have young children.  Children are very resilient and strong and as long as there is love it shouldn’t really matter how they were brought into the world.

xxxxxx


----------



## Moragob

Thank you for sharing this.  

I have 2 DE conceived girls (with different donors) aged 17 months and 4 and I am not happy with the books available or raising it too early so your post is very helpful and encouraging.  I too believe that love and the child's sense of belonging and their self confidence must be the answer.  But it is so good to hear from someone who is further ahead.  

It is easy to feel alone with this so again thank you.


----------



## Trix100

Hi Moragob,


It's a pleasure, its very difficult for others to understand the anxiety that it causes us Mums about telling our children.  My DH doesn't even understand, he doesn't feel he has to know. 


I felt that any age under 6, the child would not really understand what you were telling them.  When I told my DS at this age he had a vague understanding and asked questions.  Each conversation we have after reinforces and expands on our original conversation.  


I know other like the books but they didn't feel right for me.  Everyone is different and everyone will have a different view on telling.  


xxxxxxx


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## Moragob

Agreed Trix - I have always felt I would say something when the subject arose or the time felt right.  So far I think I would be confusing her and giving her an anxiety that she doesn't need.  I always try and answer any question seriously and not fob her off.

She has never asked about where babies come from or anything remotely connected, she just seems happy that they appear in Mummies tummies and they then come out.  She was present in the house for her sisters birth (as I had an unplanned home birth so no time to get to the hospital) so she saw her sister at a few minutes old with cord attached etc and she talks about this often so it's not like she hasn't had the opportunity to ask about how the baby got in there!  And it's always interesting when we are out and about and she starts talking in her very loud voice about all the blood when E was born and how some babies are born in bathrooms and some are born at hospital. 

I feel that the books are aimed at such a young age it is almost another pressure on us that we should be telling at this age- hopefully that's not the intention and they are there to help those who's children do start asking early.

Thanks again


----------



## Elbbob03

Trix that is a really helpful post, thanks.
I wonder if anyone can help? I am going for my first midwife appointment tomorrow - I have told no one that I used egg donation so far (apart from OH, obviously!) and although I do intend to tell the child I am not ready to tell anyone else at the moment. Is there any reason I need to tell the midwife? Can I tell later when I feel ready?

I have read the info on telling others on DCN but it doesn't cover what I am asking. 

Any thoughts? Thanks


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## louise48910

I told mine just because they were asking about father's medical history. I just said we used donor so fully screened. Job done, no more said.


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## Blondie71

Agree with you Trix early telling was never on my agenda, 8 seemed to be the age my nephews all asked "hey where's their dad" (I'm single 😂) and I always said "oh he lives abroad" and they just usually said "oh right like somewhere hot?" Me: "Yeah" and that was it conversation over and at 10 they would get into the whole clinic, doctor, donor conversation, so I figure really pointless until that grasp of stuff appears 😉


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## northernmonkey

My 10year old has asked this morning if our donor gave sperm to just us or anyone else. When I told her he was allowed to donate to 10 families max, she asked if that means she has other brothers and sisters.  I said very likely and she asked if she could find out more about them and the donor. I explained she has to wait until she’s 18, but if she wants to do it then that’s fine and I’ll help her. Just had a look at the hfea website and have seen that I can apply for basic sibling info on her behalf if I think it’s in her best interests. Not sure what I think. I don’t want it to be something she obsesses over in private but there again is a little bit of info (number of siblings, gender and year of birth) much better than none at all if that’s all she can find out for the next 8 years? She also wants to know more about the donor. Again, the hfea website says we can apply for basic info. Strangely I feel more comfortable finding out about the donor than other siblings


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## ml66uk

DNA testing services (the main ones are AncestryDNA, 23andme, and FamilyTreeDNA) seem to be growing exponentially, so it's becoming more likely that donor-conceived people who weren't told will find out anyway, even if they don't even already suspect they might be donor-conceived. AncestryDNA have now sold over five million kits, more than half of those in the last twelve months. They're mostly in the USA right now, but I'd expect to see TV and online adverts in the UK this year or next year.

A donor-conceived friend of mine recently found two half-sisters when they tested their DNA. They had no idea they might be donor-conceived, and aren't very happy that their parents never told them (and now want them to keep it a secret too).

The British Fertility Society says this btw:

_Licensed Treatment Centres are required to inform recipients of the importance of telling their child(ren) about their genetic origins at an early age (HFEA Act as amended 200. However parents make their own decisions on this. Some will choose to keep this a secret and there is a risk that offspring will find out later in life - with associated emotional harm to the child, the parent/child relationship or of relationship difficulties between the parents when one parent wants to tell and the other doesn't. There is evidence that secrets can be damaging to relationships._

[update 26th Feb 2018: AncestryDNA now say they have more than 7 million people in their database]
[update 14th Aug 2018: AncestryDNA now say they have around 10 million people in their database]


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## ml66uk

northernmonkey said:


> My 10year old has asked this morning if our donor gave sperm to just us or anyone else. When I told her he was allowed to donate to 10 families max, she asked if that means she has other brothers and sisters. I said very likely and she asked if she could find out more about them and the donor. I explained she has to wait until she's 18, but if she wants to do it then that's fine and I'll help her. Just had a look at the hfea website and have seen that I can apply for basic sibling info on her behalf if I think it's in her best interests. Not sure what I think. I don't want it to be something she obsesses over in private but there again is a little bit of info (number of siblings, gender and year of birth) much better than none at all if that's all she can find out for the next 8 years? She also wants to know more about the donor. Again, the hfea website says we can apply for basic info. Strangely I feel more comfortable finding out about the donor than other siblings


Interesting. It's more common for recipients to be more comfortable with their children contacting half-siblings rather than the donor. If she's only ten, then she might have lost interest next month, or this could be something that doesn't go away. I'm not sure knowing genders and years of birth would be very interesting, and I don't think she can get more information about her half-sibs even when she's 18 (I think she can find out who her donor is, but not his other donor children). I think I'd probably ask the HFEA for whatever information she can get, but then wait to see if she asks for it again.

She's old enough to have her own input already as long as she understands she might be disappointed. If she develops a burning desire to find half-siblings, you could consider the DNA genealogy sites, but it's unlikely she'd match anyone straight away. If any half-sibs test though, maybe two or five years from now, they'd match straight away.


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## TiggerBounces

Hi, we have our 36 week appointment to discuss labour tomorrow - need some advice.  We did mention we used DE as they were very pushy in the early days because of my age (46) and tests we needed to have.  It was then written at the top of my notes in capital letters and there it has stayed, because I didn't know how to get rid of it....sounds naive I know, it was just another hurdle to get over and I couldn't be bothered with it and just hoped there wouldn't be any prejudice.  However, unknown to us at the 24 week appointment where I had to see a consultant because I still take thyroxine following postpartum thyroiditis with first birth, the registrar wrote that I should be induced early because we used a donor egg and my age in combination, she wrote a big L, which we had no idea meant this....

So moving on, at 28 weeks I saw another consultant and she said rubbish, no reason to induce at all, and she would switch me to her clinic and we would discuss labour direction at 36 weeks after a growth scan. So far, no problems at all, I'm fit healthy, normal BMI, baby on correct size projectory, no diabetes, first birth with our son was fast 3 hours on his due date, all fit and healthy, no drugs (no time!). So, apart from my age and the fact we used a donor egg (and according to the first registrar this would be reason enough), there should be no actual reason for early induction or induction at all...BUT our hospital has a really high incidence of it, especially with over 40s. I'm worried that im going to be ambushed tomorrow at the appointment... Any information or advice about donor eggs and need to induce (or not) would be great, any also because of age.  Of course we don't want to take risks, but equally I don't want to end up with a c-section and lots of drugs in me and baby for no reason.
Thanks a lot.x


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## ml66uk

Tiggerbounces 
I can't think of any reason why using a donor egg should make any difference to giving birth. The only difference I can think of that it might make during pregnancy is that there's a lower risk of Down's. It sounds like you probably won't see that registrar or consultant again, but if you do, I'd ask them why they thought that.

Post edited to remove unnecessary quoting. Please refer to site rules.


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## Tincancat

Older mum's are best delivering before 40 weeks because the placenta is more likely to shut down and can cause problems including still birth.  It's honestly not worth going over dates.
TCCx


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## TiggerBounces

I wasnt planning on going over dates, that wasn't my question, I was asking about induction prior to due date.  Our hospital routinely induces over 40 year olds at 37 weeks at the moment, they're lacking space and midwives.


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## Miss Sunshine22

Hi Tigger

That sounds very harsh - having a policy to induce at 37 weeks. I'd ask them what their evidence base for this is, as I have heard that even though 37 weeks is considered "full term", the baby is still doing a lot of development. Also, at 37 weeks, my understanding is that your body might not be ready to go into labour and there is a chance the induction could fail. 

I guess, if there is no medical reason for it, they cannot force you to do something against your consent. It's not quite the same, but my friend (late 30s) felt a lot of pressure from her hospital to induce at 40 weeks, but she held her ground for another two weeks and had regular scans and appointments at the hospital to make sure all was okay with the placenta and the baby. In the end, she did go for an induction as the fluid levels in the womb were getting very low, but at least she had the chance for a natural birth. She did have to put up with a lot of pressure though.

I would say to stand your ground, and unless they can come up with a valid reason to induce at 37 weeks, hold firm.


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## carrie lou

From what I understand, induction at 37 weeks has the risk of failing and resulting in emergency c section. If it was me I'd want to know detailed reasons why they felt early induction was necessary, and the pros and cons if you decline it. Best of luck xxx


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## carrie lou

Hi beattie and congrats to you too xxx


Have you looked at the donor conception network site? They publish a range of materials to help with this and in my experience they'e a good starting point. We got "Talking and Telling" which is a booklet for parents that addresses some of the common issues around telling, and also "My Story" which is a picture book aimed at young children that explains the concept in a way they can hopefully understand. 


Obviously it's very early days for you but we started out reading the book to my eldest, Zac, when he was still a baby because we didn' want him to remember a time when he didn't know, we just want it to be a normal part of who he is. He's nearly 7 now, perhaps a bit old for the book at this stage but he understands the general idea i.e. daddy didn't have any sperm so we got some from a donor who helped us to have him (and his brothers). Further than that we just address questions as they arise. We also made him a personalised version of My Story with more personal details and photos of him etc. 


My youngest Arlo is 3.5 and really not bothered about it at the moment   though as you know I'm expecting no. 3 very soon so we have talked a bit about how the baby got in mummy's tummy - they both know we needed some more sperm from our donor, the baby started out in the hospital and the doctor put him back into my tummy to finish growing. 


Hope this is helpful, always happy to chat more if you'd like to. All the best for your pregnancy xxx


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## carrie lou

Oh the hormones!!!    I'm crying over nothing most days at the moment! All my sympathy. Things will work themselves out. Our immediate families know the full story and one or two very close friends. But we don't broadcast it to all and sundry and so far the boys haven't felt the need to tell anyone. Think that's one big advantage of telling child as early as possible, to them it's not a big deal, it's just part of who they are, and it doesn't even cross their minds to talk about it apart from with us.


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## carrie lou

Thats good you've ordered the books, hopefully a lot of your concerns will be discussed in there. Yes we also met with quite a bit of surprise when people realised we planned to be open with our children. But remember it's YOUR decsion; you are the ones who have made the choice to use donor sperm, you have done the research and weighed up the options, and you are the ones who have to live with the consequences. So you need to do what's right for you and your child. 


Yes I'm 38 weeks now, very big and heavy.... seeing the consultant next week. Hopefully baby won't keep us waiting too much longer! Feels like he's trying to kick his way out as I'm typing this


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## Fizzypop

Hello everyone!!


I haven’t logged on for ages but just wanted to quickly say that we didn’t “tell” our now 6.5 year old until very recently. We used the DCN “my story” book. I actually brought it years ago and just wondered when the right time would ever be. In the end I put the book on their story shelf and one day my daughter picked it up and asked to read it. Job done!! Was the most uneventful moment ever, she’s just like “yeah, whatever”. Then reread the whole story to her little brother who at 3.5 just doesn’t care!! It’s not like we talk about it all the time but periodically comes up (this morning it was “why did you choose my name” and we talked about the meaning of her name, which is basically being about being a longed for child) xxx


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## ZC

Following.  Currently pregnant and struggling terribly with this. Thank you for posting x


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## northernmonkey

Carrie - congratulations on bump #3! Not long now, bet you can’t wait.    


Hello to everyone else, as you can see from my signature I have 3 girls who were donor conceived. I’ve also used the My Story book to tell the girls how we came to have them and have been reading it to them since they were babies. My eldest is 11 and she’s the only one who really understands exactly what it means. For years she would listen to me read the book to her and she’d comment on what a nice story it was, and every time I’d have to remind her that it was a real story about her! I can’t remember exactly when she started to work out exactly what it meant, but there would be the odd question that clearly showed she was thinking about it all away from when we were actually reading the book. Then I remember one night (she was probably aged around 10) she asked me ‘so does that mean daddy isn’t my real daddy?’ That was quite a tough moment despite me thinking I would be prepared for it! I encourage her to talk to me about it whenever she wants to, or to my dh or anyone else she feels comfortable with.  She’s adamant that she wouldn’t talk to dh because she wouldn’t want to make him sad, so I’m trying to reassure her that we’re both here for her and if she wants to ask him anything she really can.  She does bring it up with me quite often at the moment and is quite desperate to find out more about the donor as well as other half siblings. 


The only people who know we used a donor are both sets of parents, our siblings and my best friend.  I’ve explained to dd that it’s not some shameful secret but we chose not to tell anyone because we thought we’d leave it up the children who (if anyone) they want to tell. As far as I know she hasn’t told anyone, there again I’ve never asked her! 


I don’t regret for one second being open with the girls. So far, dd has handled it fine and I can honestly say that her relationship with my dh hasn’t changed in the slightest since she worked out exactly what it all means. As I say, she really wants to know more about the donor though, so I’m going to apply for whatever info we can obtain about him now and have told dd that if she wants to try to contact him when she’s older, both dh and I will absolutely support her. Apart from that I just try to answer her questions as honestly as possible and hope that the next two take it as well as #1 has so far!


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## ZC

Was it open donation? Not anonymous? You sound like you have this. She sounds like a wonderful little person.


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## northernmonkey

ZC - I think like motherhood in general I’m kind of winging it! With regards to the donor, I specifically wanted a one who the girls would be able to contact if they wanted to when they’re old enough. I asked DD#1 a couple of days ago if she thinks she would like to contact the donor when she’s old enough and she immediately said yes.  Ive told her I’ll apply for what info we can get now and she’s really excited about it. 


Carrie - you must only have a week to go have you??


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## carrie lou

NM, yes I'm booked for induction next Thurs (my due date) unless he comes sooner! Exciting


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## Godiva

This seems the best topic for your question, Beattie. Pregnancy and motherhood is enough to make anyone insecure: hormones or not, donor or not. We just have an extra topic from the selection of things we could worry about .
My DD is only 1.5, but my husband mentions it every now and then to her, just so she will always have known, and to get used to it and so as to avoid having "The Big Telling" at some point in future.
We live abroad, and telling was always the way to go for us. So much that we decided to pay for our own treatment so our children could contact the donor at 18. Where we live I could have had a large part of the treatment reimbursed, but we would have to have had a life-long anonymous donor (current law).
I read somewhere about explaining the difference between secrets and privacy, and think we would try that once she can understand the concept. Before that there is not much point, but the topic of how she came to be will probably not be discussed with outsiders much. We do not make it a big secret, but of course do not just blurt it out any time. However when we do tell people they actually have a hard time believing it and think we are joking... They would never understand or believe what a small child is telling them on the subject, or just think she does not grasp the details if where babies come from.
My husband is a vet, which means most of the village know who he is, illustrated by the fact that a client of his mentioned she heard we were going to move, and knew exactly which house we have just bought... It makes him slightly afraid of the moment the news of his infertility spreads beyond close aquaintances and trusted friends, but that hurdle will just have to be taken when we get to it.


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## ml66uk

Press release from AncestryDNA:

_"November 28, 2018 - Ancestry today announced record-sales of AncestryDNA kits during the month of November, including the "Turkey 5" period from Thanksgiving through Cyber Monday. Sales were primarily driven by purchases made on Ancestry.com as well as on Amazon where AncestryDNA was the best-selling non-Amazon branded product on Cyber Monday for the second year in row. Following this record setting period, Ancestry has now sold more than 14 million DNA kits worldwide."_

By the time they've tested those, they'll have more than doubled their database within a year. For better or worse, it's becoming ever more likely that people who are donor-conceived will find out, whether or not they are told, or ever even suspected.


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## carrie lou

Hello everyone    it's been ages since I was last on here and I see it's still very quiet. I just wanted to post about my eldest son Zachary who is nearly 9 (￼￼   ) I had a chat with him the other night, entirely led by him, about the donor and he amazed me with his insight and the questions he asked - it feels as if he is really starting to get it. I don't think he has yet made the leap to understanding that daddy isn't biologically related to him, but I'm sure that will come in time.


Unfortunately their dad and I have split up a few months ago (it is for the best and I know it was the right decision) but the boys still see daddy regularly and he's very involved.


I hope everyone else is well, it would be fantastic to hear from anyone who's still on this site x


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## ivyf

Wow can’t believe your big boy is nearly 9 I’ve read your posts in the past and that time seems to have flown. I haven’t been on here since last year so nice to see a new post on this thread. Lovely to hear he’s chatting about it, makes me realise I haven’t brought the subject up for a while x


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## louise48910

I have a probably unusual situation in that I am donor conceived and found out at 34. It was all anonymous back then and the clinic my Mum had treatment is long gone and likely records were destroyed. I don't have a massive issue with it but feel I have to be secretive because my Mum and Dad didn't tell a soul.

Our child is donor conceived with a non anonymous donor. I feel all confused about it at the moment. I have ordered a kit from ancestry . com and am considering looking into searching for 'siblings' for want of a better word/reality. I'm hesitant as I know of someone who found their 'half sibling' and they weren't aware they were donor conceived. I already had concerns about this. I can't imagine most who people sign up would even think that there may be a chance they have been conceived that way or that their family members were donors.

We plan to be open with our child about it all which my partner and I agreed on even before I found out I was DC but now I've been talking about finding out whether I have any genetic links out there it all feels very awkward between us and has been a daily discussion which it never was before. I read something in a DC group recently about the view on the _'it's the child's story to tell' _ thing and how if they want to share their conception story that's up to them but that by keeping it a secret from everyone else it's somehow still shameful, which it shouldn't be. My partner said he doesn't want the whole village to know etc which makes me feel really sad for him. No sure what replies I'm hoping to get but just wanted to share this some place people get it.


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## ml66uk

@louise48910

If you want to share this some place people get the donor-conceived part of your situation, you'll find plenty at the Donor Conceived Register:
https://www.liverpoolwomens.nhs.uk/our-services/donor-conceived-register-dcr/
https://www.donorconceivedregister.co.uk/

Their DNA testing isn't great, and I'd stick to AncestryDNA and/or 23andMe in your position, but they have an active social media group that should be very supportive. There are lots of groups just for donor-conceived people too (so no donors, unlike the DCR), but I'd start there first.

If you know the clinic your mum used, you could also check the Donor Sibling Registry to see if there any matches. You have to pay if you find someone and want to message them though.

Your partner may be interested in this blog and the associated resources: http://di-dad.blogspot.com/
I couldn't find a group for DI Dads on this forum, but maybe your partner could start one??


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## louise48910

Thankyou for your response. I did speak with the DCR a year or so ago and had a long session on the phone with someone. I did complete the form to register but with a sleepless baby didn't get around to it. I think the social media group would be more helpful, like you say and do the DNA on a larger general site. I've just joined a couple of groups on social media and have been chatting with a woman who also discovered that they were dc as an adult who also has a DC child. I haven't told her mine is as I don't feel ready for that. I have a big issue with privacy online and letting strangers in, even before all of this. Thankyou, I will tell him about that but I think he really just wants to get on with life and semi forget about it on a day to day basis. I'm not angry with my Mum for using donor and not telling me but I am now feeling quite annoyed that it has totally changed our reality as in now I'm talking about my conception and it's been a daily reminder for my partner in the last week since for whatever reason I decided to join some social media groups. I think it also changes things for our child as I don't want him to feel he has to search for people, but it's also probably made me realise how many many half siblings he could have. We knew that was a likely thing but not how it would be in reality.


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## K jade

Hello louise ,and evey1 else who may be interested. 
There is a new Support Network out there for donor conception:

https://definingmum.com

In the website is a link to paths to parent hub. Which is members only ,so but better for those conscious of online privacy. 
I believe there is a members fee however so if that is not for u there is plenty of free support via her website, ******** page and Instagram.

Might be good for people looking for a bit of an alternative to DCN


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## Lisianthus

Hello, this is my first time posting about this. 
My DC is donor conceived - have been havering  how & when to tell him - he's 6. It just came out in a conversation earlier this week, flowed naturally on from what we were talking about. He wasn't fazed in the slightest, but immediately asked the donor's name which threw me . I told him the clinic wouldn't tell me the donor's name but that he could find out when he is older - it made me really glad that we opted for treatment in the UK, which we chose because we wanted him to be able to find out about the donor if he wants too. Weve been reading 'The Cow that Laid an Egg' since he was little &  I think that helped. Then the conversation just moved on to something else.
The clinic confirmed that our egg sharer's cycle was not successful but I guess that doesn't rule out other half siblings.
I still have a lot to process emotionally but at least I've told him & got the ball rolling. 
I have finally had a second successful cycle & am 11 weeks with DC number 2, also donor conceived, & suspect his/her safe arrival (fingers crossed) will prompt more conversations.


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## louise48910

Hi Kjade, thanks for that! I'm on a few ** groups now and get lots of support with that. It's weird being both a product and recipient of donor sperm! 

Lisanthus! Great to hear your talking about it went well. I've no idea what the right way to do it is but I guess referring to it in an equally casual way here and there makes sense. We've got a book - stupidly ordered the egg one haha, that I read to my son (age 3) and it just sits on his shelf and he gets it out every so often. Hoping it just becomes part of his life and it isn't a shock. I get why people don't tell and I'm pretty chilled about finding out but in our situation it's what's right for us. 

Congratulations! I think a new baby is a definitely a good opportunity to explain how the baby got there


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## Rio2016

Oh so interesting about the donors name. That’s something I’d answer the same way. Do you have pics of your donor? I’ve not shown anyone the ones I have. Only got two and not looked at them in a long while. But from memory my daughter does look like the donor. 

We’re also expecting no. 2 but my daughter will be too young then to understand much as only 2 next year xx


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## sfield84

Advise needed please...

We have 2 children from known donor (my sister). Our son is 7 and daughter is 4. My sister ended up getting pregnant due to the hormones when she underwent the IVF for us and also had ended up pregnant when we went through FET so I have 2 niece's the same age as our children. Me and my sister are very close and our children have grown up together as best friends. We would love to tell our children how they are related but don't want to confuse things. They are cousins and best friends and my sister has never been more than an auntie figure to my children. 

Any advise on how to explain to them regarding a known donor will be much appreciated.


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## ml66uk

There are lots of books these days for donor-conceived families, though most of them don't involve known donors. I don't know if any of them would work for your situation, but there are lots to choose from:

https://www.google.com/search?q=egg+donor+children%27s+book


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## Rio2016

Hi sfield84, we’ve got a donor conception network book and have read that with my daughter for a while. She’s two so it’s just something we have in the house and say every so often.

Would this be the first mention of this news to your kids? I wonder if there are any people in the DCN who have used known donors too who could help.

Excuse my ignorance but when do kids learn about how babies are made? Do they know they were IVF? I’ve got an IVF book too. 

My daughter doesn’t look like me so it’s maybe more obvious.

Hope someone can help offer advice who has been there xx


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## sfield84

Thank you for your response. 

Our son has started to ask questions about where babies come from and think this has stirred up wondering how we should tell them. I think the thing we naively didn't think about when my sister offered to by our donor was how we would need to explain it to her children too. It's never been a secret and there's never been any deliberate intention not to tell them but I feel the longer it's gone on the harder it is as it feels like it would be more of a "big talk" than we wanted.


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