# IVF in June 2010 at Sims Clinic? Feeling a bit apprehensive



## Crikey (May 16, 2010)

Hi all
I am looking for others who will be starting ivf at Sims in Dublin in June.
I'm 38, stage 4 endo, one blocked tube, very low AMH and low follicle counts. TTC for a year and a half. Will be doing MicroFlare.
This is my first ivf cycle, and I'm very apprehensive. The prognosis is bad and I'm feeling very pessimistic and lonely at the moment! Can't talk to anyone in family/friends/work as nobody knows much about these things. So it would be great to hear from people in a similar boat and in the same area!
As the cycle draws nearer I'm just getting all these awful fears about it failing, and all the stress and expense involved. My partner feels pretty down about ivf too, as our factors are so bad we just can't see it succeeding. 
Anyhow if anyone's in a similar position please do get in touch to sound off about it!
L


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## pixi (May 8, 2010)

hi 
im not doing ivf in june, but i know how you feel  , we are still tryen to pick a clinic
we think we will try sims first then maybe look at spain
my dh has no swimmers so we need to have ivf with ds,i have thyroid prob and pcos
i have to admit the toughts of starting ivf is scary ,and no matter how good and supportive my hubby is
there still this tiny voice that sometimes says ,its not fair !!!!!!!!!!
it costs so much and if it dont work thats alot of money to loose, but on the upside think of the joy if it did work


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## Leah (Sep 7, 2004)

Hi Crikey and Pixie,

Just wanted to say good luck.  I was with Sims last summer for ICSI and had an FET in November.  No luck with either but I found Sims to be highly professional and very progressive.  They are expensive but they were very honest with me and advised me to go elsewhere which I appreciated as I probably would have cycled with them again!

Anyhow all the best for your txs.

Leah


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## Mrs_B24 (Jun 5, 2010)

hey am waiting 2start my short cycle ivf that is the same as micro-flare is it not?am doing mine in cork tho,but jus thought i drop in and say hi    first one cancelled in down reg due to lining being 2thick!yes i am the same with everything coming together it gets on top of u i think it is serious pressure like!waiting for AF to strat so i can go!i know its hard but try and stay positive i am feeling negative 99.9 % of the time its like if i feel positive i feel guilty or something and that i dont wanna get hopes up.hope it works i really do!
i also have obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) so that makes the stress 10 times worse its like if i dont do something like check the door so many times it may no work i know its stupid but i cannot help it!


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## Crikey (May 16, 2010)

Hi Pixi, Leah and Mrs_B24

Thanks for your replies!

Leah, did you decide to leave Sims to pursue a donor cycle? Why did they advise you to go elsewhere, if you don't mind me asking? 
Re DEs, I have a feeling I might eventually have to go that way. If I turn out to have very poor quality eggs and embryos on the first cycle, I'm hoping to look at DE cycles straight away. But do Sims only have the €12,000 international programme? It's extortionate. Any advice about DEs would be welcome, if that's the road you're taking. I just cannot face cycle after cycle after cycle using OEs... I know that already.

Mrs B24 - Microflare is one month on birth control pill, then aggressive stims (Puregon + Luveris) plus down regulation (Suprefact/buserelin) 
at the same time. They put me on microflare because they predict I'll have a poor response because of my low AMH and lack of follicles. I have bad endo. Does it sound like same thing you are doing?

I feel the same: if I feel positive it's like I'm tempting fate and jinxing it.... Leah, how have you stayed positive, I see you've been through such a lot...
Well it's nice to hear from people, so keep in touch when you can with any thoughts on coping with all this
xx


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## Crikey (May 16, 2010)

Actually I just had a look at Reprofit, Leah - the price for a donor embryo cycle is amazing.

It just feels  like a long, long road ahead and I'm tired already. I don't know how people do it: I haven't started the cycle yet and 
I already feel weary and sad. Mostly because DR has warned us to be braced for multiple cycles, and I don't know if I'm up for it.

Does it change the way you feel about wanting a child - do you ever wish you could just give it all up? I don't know how people get through it.

Best wishes to all, Crikes x


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## Mrs_B24 (Jun 5, 2010)

Hey all big  am feelin the same as that i havnt even started and feel sad!you dont knowwhether your coming or going to laugh or to cry!all i try and keep tellin myslef i ll never no unless i try i was on the pill for a month then started down reg but was cancelled then.i am put on a low dose of stimms tho they said i have a high risk of over stimulating its weird being on both ends of the spectrum but i really dont wanna overstim not after last cycle being cancelled
no id say yours is a different approach. hope it all woks 
12,000 euro for a DE in sims wow that it crazy price it is so unfair like there should be some sort of ruduced cycle for one go at least!they dont actually realise buy seting price too high here they are causing ppl to go abroad so they are losing business sorry for not makin sense! lol
all he best for now!x


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## Leah (Sep 7, 2004)

Hi Crikey
I don't mind you asking at all. Ask away.  S*ms advised me to go elsewhere because I have now had 7txs and 1FET and only one was successful.  The dr felt that S*ms couldn't offer me anything new - they had thrown everything they could at it  for the ICSI and FET that I had with them.  He initially advised dna fragmentation tests for dh to see if that was the problem.  We had those done in March and they were ok.  He had also initially advised that if the dna was a problem then we should think about using donor egg/sperm or both. (that's why I have it on my signature).  After the results of the DNA fragmentation test he suggested using the Lister in London for one last ICSI.  He said that they seem to get good results even from people who have repeated failures.  I appreciated his honesty and his willingness to advise me to go elsewhere.  I had the same experience with Ori*in in Belfast where they also advised to go elsewhere!
I was very optimistic when we went over to the Lister last week for a consultation but they have advised us to do more tests (karotyping) and so depending on the results of those we might have to finally face reality and just give up!
I was initially looking at REPROFIt but they have a very long waiting list.  I had my name down for another CZech Rep. clinic (Ostrava)  who are supposedly very good and who don't have a long waiting list.  I was due to have it done in the summer but decided against it as I was maybe going to give it one last blast using my own eggs.  If you do contact them, the lady you email  is called Diana and she is very prompt and very efficient - this always impressed me.  It is much cheaper than S*ms and you only have to go over for the transfer - the scans can be done here.  There is a thread on this website - look under 'clinics abroad'.  Rollercoaster.ie also has a board for people who are undergoing or considering the donor route.

Mrs B24
I think S*ms is very expensive because their de's come from Europe and have to be collected elsewhere and sent over.  Have a look at their website it gives you a lot of info on there.  

With regard to being down and sad at this stage I understand that feeling as it is very overwhelming .  I always think it is like a terrible shock - it is traumatic.  There are still times when I think about our infertility and I still can't believe it.  I sometimes still think it is something that happens to other people!  I don't want to patronise you but I would say that I have learned (over the past 8 years) that you have to be dogged and determined about every aspect of ttc.  I have adopted such a brass neck for example with asking for time off from work and with dealing with drs etc.  You have to be single minded and keep your eye on the goal.  My mantra has always been that I don't want to be in my 40's (not too far off) and saying ' I should have done this or that ' or ' I should have asked for this or that'.    I want to be able to look back and say that I tried my very best to have a child and to give my child a sibling.  You also have to adopt strategies for how you deal with other people and situations.  I know that I have certain mental strategies that I use to cope with it all.
Again just keep your eye on the goal and be very determined and focused about achieving it.

Sorry for the long post but hope this helps!

Leah


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## Crikey (May 16, 2010)

Hi Leah- I see that sims threw everything in the book at you. Is yours mostly male factor then? I’ve just had my baseline appointment with them and they’re also putting me on Clexane, five steroids a day, extra estradiol, aspirin etc etc. DH’s fragmentation tests came back OK, although he had borderline SA. 
I get the impression they don’t know much but like to cover all bases, even when it’s not backed up in research, which I’m a bit uneasy with (e.g. taking loads of extra estrogen). I did feel traumatised when the nurse went through all the meds; I wanted to cry. Our prognosis is so bad and they are just prescribing us everything. Sorry to sound like a wuss after all you’ve been through!  When we came out, we both felt desolate. 

That’s very good advice about being dogged and prioritising your treatment and not worrying about work etc. I’m gradually learning to put work last and stop feeling guilty about time off etc. What are your mental strategies for dealing with certain situations? I do have a bit of a problem with dealing with other late 30-somethings who get pregnant easily. Basically it just makes me feel unbearably sad and disbelieving that I can’t do it. I had to break off forever with a friend who was a bit smug about her “accidental” pregnancies (at 36/37). I also have a problem with freaking out about my age and the fact that I have such concrete plans that I just can’t realise. My life feels so “on hold”; I can’t behave normally any more until I get what I want. I’ve tried counselling & acupuncture but didn’t do much for me. Do you get this sensation of your life being suspended?
I see you had bfp in 06 – was that a successful icsi then? 
My driving force seems to be same as yours: I don’t want to be in my 40s and 50s thinking I should have tried harder. At the same time I have a huge fear of actually being in my 40s and 50s without children, even if I do try my hardest. Hard to deal with not knowing how that’s going to feel. Also, which throws another spanner in the works, I am hugely afraid of the cancer connection with ivf, as my mum died in her 30s of breast cancer and I’m at risk. So I’m scared of doing too many cycles. DH is also incredibly resistant to doing more than a couple of cycles, because of the family history. So - aaaargghh! Sorry to rant but it’s only you girls who know what I’m talking about! It all looks so hopeless.

I sound like a miserable *****, sorry girls! I suppose you just have to do what you said and be determined and know your goal. I’d like to get to that stage, but it takes a lot of strength – you must be very strong Leah!

Hi Mrs B24 it does sound as if our protocols are different – I’m sorry you got cancelled; they told me today that I might get cancelled next week as I’m in danger of not producing any follicles, even on high stims

All the best to all
Leah if you have time to talk / give tips about your strategies and how to stay focused that would be great!

Crike


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## boboboy (Feb 29, 2008)

Hi girls,
I just wanted to pop in to say keep the old chin up - I know how hard it is - life is on hold - it seems like for years - waiting for appointments - waiting for news - waiting to get pregnant - waiting waiting waiting.  
All I can say is dont be like me and wait too long - speak up to your doctors - ask loads of questions and be brave.
I didnt question enough and took them for their word - I send years in limbo land until I found out about DE - within 2 years of making the initial appointment with Reprofit we have our girls.  I am not saying its that easy - we were just extremely lucky - so if you do have to go down the DE route going abroad is a great way - for one cycle in S*ms you can get 4 in Czech !!!!  The Czech thread here is great and full of info - not that will need it a all your up and coming treatments will work   

Oh and Mrs B- I am a counter - I count everything all the time -  its my form of ocd - I have to get odd numbers


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## Leah (Sep 7, 2004)

Hi Ladies,

Crikey, the only issues that have been identified with us are male factor issues.  Because we have had so many unsuccessful txs I feef (self-diagnosis) that there must be some issues with me as well.  The drs have said this too.  THe dr at the Lister explained the whole genetic thing and there is a chance that that is the issue.  We will have the tests done and then we will know if there is any point in doing more txs.  I agree that S*ms are very aggressive in their approach and I suppose this isn't a bad thing - it just didn't work for me!  I don't think you are a wuss - I am proabably being foolish doing all of these txs and my dh is definitely of the opinion that we have done too many.  The dr at Or*gin told me about 3 years ago that I needed to start thinking about the endgame but I    
just can't do it.  I must admit I am starting to come around to the fact that I will have to give up soon as I am heading quickly towards 40.  
I know what you mean about suspending your life.  I stopped seeing friends - even friends who don't have children because I didn't want to be put into a situation where I had to speak about it. 
My house is a complete tip and I drive an old banger because all of my money goes into txs.  I am still in the closet about it all (but I know that people know fine well) and I'm sure people are always thinking where does their money go?  Why is their house such a tip!! 
As for dealing with it I suppose I am a bit of an actress and I am good at masking my true feelings.  I also anticipate pg announcements and get myself prepared for them.  I think about what I'll say and how I'll respond.  I always find work pgs the worst as there is generally no escaping them.  It might sound strange and it's hard to explain but  when I feel envious I find that if I tell myself that the situation of the pg person is right for them at this time and that something else will be right for me at another time then this makes me feel a lot better.  I also am so lucky to have had success on my 2nd ICSI and have a 3 yr old. who is so special.  However they are now at the stage where they are asking about brothers and sisters and this makes me so sad.  I never underestimate how lucky I am to have succeeded especially with all of the consequent failures - the fact that I have one is a complete miracle!  I can be quite bitter at times and I know that I didn't respond in the best way when one of my siblings began to have children.  I am a bit embarrassed now but mostly I don't care.  I think anyone with half a brain and any kind of a heart would have guessed what the story was and been sensitive about it.
I'm sorry to hear about your mum and your medical fears.  I appreciate how hard it must be to make the decision about the tx.  
You sound as if you really know your stuff about the drugs.  Do you think that you really need them all?  Could you ask not to take some of them?  I just take them all and don't even question or think which is probably stupid.
I know what you mean about not being able to control it.  It still shocks me to the core that I can't get pg and yet the most stupid animals in the world can manage it without any bother.  I don't think I'm that strong I probably have become hardened by it all and it definitely changes you and toughens you up.

Sorry for rambling.  Hope this helps in some way.

Leah


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## Crikey (May 16, 2010)

Hi folks
Boboboy that’s interesting – do you wish you had gone straight to DE at the beginning, then? I have this nagging idea that I will be coerced into doing three or four futile ivf cycles, when with my ovarian reserve I should probably go straight to DE. But I’ll see how the baseline scan looks next week. Did you get bfp on first DE cycle with Reprofit?

Leah – Sims are very aggressive and a lot of women feel more secure and “covered” than they do at other places, but their success rates are average/no higher than anywhere else, so I’m a bit cynical about it all. 
I don’t think you’re foolish doing all those txs. You’ll never kick yourself that you didn’t try hard enough! It’s so hard to call a stop to it. I went for cognitive behavioural therapy when I was diagnosed, because I was having a hard time deciding whether I wanted to go down the multiple-ivf route or whether I should just face up to never having children. I was having major panic attacks about my age and being childless in my 40s/50s and couldn’t see an alternative, and I wanted to change my thinking and accept my life as it is. Anyway, it didn’t work and I can see I’ll be having a few ivfs… my head kind of tells me it’s wrong because all our factors are against us, but I still find myself doing it… 
I haven’t told that many people, I find they just don’t know enough about ivf and I’m sick of explaining things to them and dealing with high expectations. I’m not a very positive person and all the evidence says that we’re not likely to succeed with this, and then I get people saying: so why are you doing it? Cannot be bothered trying to explain why to them. 

It’s lovely that you have your miracle baby, anyway! I can understand wanting to give him/her a sibling.

I’d be interested to know if you go for the Reprofit/DE option. In the meantime thanks for the tips and support and best wishes to all
C


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## boboboy (Feb 29, 2008)

Hi C,
I feel I should have been told to go straight for DE.  We were at H**i clinic .  I thought it was terrible.  I was treated like a number - things werent explained to us and we were very frightened and confused.  It was only when I over heard them talking about me that one of the doctors said- it will never work for her with such high FSH and why are you putting them through this - I confronted them in floods of tears only to be told oh we will give it a go you never know.  You know yourself in that situation - you have gone through all the meds and tests and you just want somethng to happen so we went ahead with IVF only for it to be a disaster .  DOnt even want to go into it all it is something I want to forget.
Anyway I found Reprofit to be so far ahead of the clinic here - they have a very good record of going to 5 day blast which is what we wanted.
Our donor got 8 eggs - this is about the norm with them - they go for quality rather than quantity - 6 of the eggs went into blast and are frozen on day 6.  The first go we got pregnant but sadly I had a miscarriage - second go we changed meds and have our beautiful girls now.  How we were treated in Reprofit compared to here is night and day.  Reprofit are a modern clinic with excellent results and I am just sorry I didnt find out about DE years ago.

BoBo


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## Crikey (May 16, 2010)

BoBo
What you wrote is exactly what I fear. I think they will give most women a go, which in a way is good, but it also drags those with a poor prognosis through hell. 
And I thought the Me**ion Clinic were awful, but the H sounds ten times worse. I left the Me**ion for similar reasons. Me and DH both hated even entering the building. They seem to have a one-size-fits-all approach and are really conservative & not at all patient-friendly. S*ms have been a bit better, I know a lot of women have had a very positive experience with them, but they didn't really know what to do with me and just wanted to throw me onto the long protocol at first. All the docs I see are very blasé about ivf and always say something like "it shouldn't take us more than three gos" - however, when I then question this and point out my AMH and follicle counts, they visibly backtrack, ponder for a bit then change something on the protocol. Do any of them truly know what they are doing when it comes to the difficult cases? I'm so disillusioned already with this industry, it seems to be entirely based on “You never know”. Docs are very evasive with me when it comes to my own % chance of success; they will not even go there. Hopefully in ten years they’ll be counselling more patients not to have ivf, based on AMH results and antral follicle counts. There needs to be more focus on and more transparency in the ivf industry, it’s pretty shady. Anyway thanks for the heads up, I’ll bear all that in mind over the coming months.
I’m so glad that you had a happy ending after your saga with the clinics – that’s really lovely.
C x


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## Mrs_B24 (Jun 5, 2010)

Hey everyone, well boboboy same as that part of my o9cd involves counting it has changed number over the lst few years but its been consistant wit counting to 3 three times   DH dont really understand either i feel when i talk out loud about the obsessions it makes them feel so stupid ah??which is so annoying coz when there in ur head they seem like a big deal!
my heart goes out to all of u am glad tht some of yer dresams came true and for those of us still in waiting hopefully this will be our year.
if there was a way i could help eveyone i really would it brings a tear to my eye


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