# Single girls having/considering IVF part 10



## aweeze

Happy chatting!


----------



## bluprimrose

bookmarking too

bpxx


----------



## Betty-Boo

Hello new home - thanks Lou x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Just marking the thread

Am off for baseline scan tomorrow, donor's scan Weds. Fingers crossed this time round we actually get to EC/ET  

Suitcase
x


----------



## Betty-Boo

for you too Suity x x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Thanks hun, me too....can't say I'm exactly excited/looking forward to it. Last cycle was so stressful, I think I might adopt Inde's approach this time and just not ask for any information re donor's stimms until they get in touch with me - trouble is I really need to plan ET date with work as I have several workshops around that time and the earlier I know the date, the better....
Oh well, what will be will be I suppose


----------



## madmisti

Lots of         Suity. Hope all goes well with scans this week and they can give you ET date asap.

lol
Misti x


----------



## wizard

Suitcase best of luck with this cycle, I hope all the timings work out ok and that you are PUPO very soon.

Wizard x


----------



## cocochanel1

Best of luck Suity, will be thinking of you xxx


----------



## cocochanel1

Hi girls, I'm trying to make some next step decisions and would be really interested in your views... 

As you know I'm in search of second opinions at the moment and to try to find a London doctor who knows enough about polycystic ovaries to be able to get me pregnant on my next IVF cycle and ideally a doctor who would follow and understand Dr Sher's theories re high LH and polycystic ovaries and the consequent testosterone toxicity for the eggs.

I am seeing Mr Trew on 3rd November but am wondering if I should also register with the ARGC or Lister? If I wait to see Mr Taranissi at ARGC it will be an 8 month wait. Do you think I should wait the 8 months to see him or see another consultant at ARGC or go to the Lister instead?

Also, another doctor was mentioned in London but I cannot remember the name??

I'm hoping to try an IVF cycle again in the January'ish timeframe with perhaps an IUI in November and December.

And to this point - do you think I should save all my money and put it towards IVF or try IUI in the meantime? It is so hard to know!!
Thanks, Coco xxx


----------



## blueytoo

Coco - The ARGC are still not allowing single women to be treated there.

Make an appointment with Dr Jaya Parikh at the Lister - she is amazing, and will listed to everything Dr Sher has said to you and will work with that information and protocol.

Claire xx


----------



## Teela

Hi Everyone,

I am posting for the first time on this board, and really after some advice from all you ladies.

I am going for my review appointment on thu and embarking on my first IVF probably in the New Year.
I am hoping you can give me some advice on what questions I should ask, what I can expect from IVF and
what I should be pushing for etc. So far all my IUI'S have failed and my consultant is saying because of my
age etc IVF is the next move - im very scared!! 

I have read about IVF on the main board but nothing like getting advice from all you knowledgeable gals .

thanks in advance
Teela
x


----------



## cocochanel1

Thanks Feisty, how do you know this doctor? I'm also contemplating what you said about reprofit - I am keen to find a more economical way of proceeding. When do you plan to go?

Does anyone else find that family and friends are trying to persuade you to give up and not try anymore? I'm getting alot of 'advice' that perhaps I should draw a line in the sand and accept what I have and be grateful. But how does one just stop wanting another child? 

xxx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Hey Coco,

I'm not exactly getting advice to stop but I have had several friends, and my sister, ask me "how many more times are you going to try?" - which is kind of the same thing really - they're not coming out and saying it but what they mean is "How many more times are you going to put yourself through this and waste time and money etc etc"

I always reply that I will know when it's time to stop and that's that. And then I change the subject. Most of the people who ask either have children (and had them easily) or don't want them - so how can they possibly understand. Mostly I've just stopped talking about it except to you girls here who do understand....that way I don't have to listen to their well meant 'advice'

Only you will know when it's time to draw that line in the sand...until then we're all here to support you
Hope you get some more clarity on next steps soon...see you in a few weeks at the meet  

Suitcase
x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Teela,

Sorry, meant to reply to you too and then pressed 'post' too soon!

Good luck with your review appointment. Moving to IVF feels very scary after IUI but if you take it step by step it's really not that bad. If you have been doing medicated IUI, then IVF is kind of similar, but just with a higher dose of the stimming drugs. 

I would ask your consultant what protocol they would recommend for you and why? What stimming drugs, what dose, why are they recommending this? They should explain the different protocols, what to expect, how long it takes etc. If there's anything you don't understand, keep asking until you do - that's what they are there for  
Often the first cycle is a bit hit and miss in terms of the protocol/stimms etc as they are seeing how your body responds to the drugs etc, but it's still good to quizz them thoroughly on what they are planning and why

All the best, and do pop back after your consultant and let us know how you got on,
Suitcase
x


----------



## blueytoo

CoCo - I had five cycles of IVF at the Lister with that doctor and she is just amazing. Any change I have wanted to try she has agreed to, she is the only IVF doctor I have ever used that really listens and I've been to 4 clinics altogether so far.

I am going to Reprofit in January.

My mother in particular is always asking me when I'm going to stop trying. If I even so much as mention my plans she tuts and huffs and puffs. Drives me nuts. I tell her to sod off and that she got to have the two children she wanted to have, I don't have all my children yet. She should understand as well as they tried for 8 years to have me and were told they would never be able to have children and she was devastated!


----------



## Teela

Thanks for reply Suity, my IUI's were unmedicated so will be a new experience with IVF, I will post to let you know
what they recommend, as your experiences are invaluable. 

Coco I hope things start to come together for you and the decisions you need to make, only you can decide when 
enough is enough. In the meantime good luck with whatever YOU decide to do  

Teela
x


----------



## cocochanel1

Thanks Teela, good luck for your treatment too.
Can I ask why you are moving straight to IVF without first trying medicated IUI? xx


----------



## Teela

Hi Coco u may of course ask, I will do my best to answer  

I don't know yet, review consultation is thu, but clinic always said 3 IUI and then IVF! Also
my consultant rang and left a message on my phone friday and was talking IVF as next move and I 
didnt get an opportunity to question as she on hols til Thu. 
However I will ask that question.

thanks
Teela
x


----------



## cocochanel1

Hi everyone, hope you are all OK.
I had my second follow up at the wessex today - a complete turnaround. They had read all the information I sent them regarding Dr Sher and his advice and are happy to follow his protocol and are in touch with him now....I'll post more later on this but for now can anyone tell me where I can have the K562 target cell blood test please? I need to organise this asap and Wessex and Doctor's Lab do not do it.
Thanks, Coco xxx


----------



## indekiwi

Coco, I'm sitting here with my mouth agape (not attractive I know  ).  Can't wait to hear more.

A-Mx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Coco have you tried HCA lab 111 Harley St they do Mr ******* and ARGC's blood processing? If not ask the labs.  Some of the immune girls used to get the blood bottle sent over from RFU lab in USA, get blood drawn and then courier it to USA by Fed Ex- this is fine if it is a clotted sample.
L x


----------



## Felix42

Wow, Coco, that's brilliant news. I bet you're as amazed as Inde! Sorry I can't help on the blood test front but great to hear you should be able to get underway again at the Wessex now. 

Midnight, how did your consult go? Very useful I hope. 

Rose, when are you starting again? Are you on the BCP yet?

Love & hugs, Felix xx


----------



## cocochanel1

Thanks JJ1, I'll check them out tomorrow.

Yes Felix, I am as amazed as Inde. So here is the full story. Apologies in advance for the long me post.

You may remember that at my last follow-up my Consultant told me she hadn't heard of Dr Sher or his clinics and that they completely disagreed with the suggestions on the basis that I don't have PCOS (syndrome per se) and that they never do prolonged coasting (Dr Sher) and that antagonist short protocol has always been the approach they have taken for PCOS type pictures like me. 

I left research papers with them last time and also emailed my 'report' that I had compiled plus various Dr Sher links and papers. 

When I arrived today my Consultant had all the paperwork in front of her and said she had read everything and that they were prepared to work with Dr Sher's protocol and even consider his prolonged coasting. We discussed the in's and out's for more than an hour and talked through possible action plans. She didn't have any other suggestions other than perhaps changing from puregon to gonal-f to see if it made a difference. 

I also pushed for us to get some second UK opinions and the PCOS experts she came up with are Bill Ledger (Sheffield), Steve Franks (Imperial College) and Adam Balen (Leeds) plus a new Professor at Southampton called Mr Maklon. I mentioned Mr Trew and Taranissi. She is going to email Steve Franks and has this afternoon booked a conference call with Dr Sher to discuss the protocol and approach in detail.

Progress?

I must admit I have come away a little stunned that I seem to be leading the experts rather than the other way around.?
On the one hand it could be very good news that the clinic are prepared to follow Dr Sher's advice and protocol because logistically it is so much easier for me and they know me well but on the other hand do they know enough to follow the advice to the letter and are they experienced enough to know when to administer HCG, when to start the LH blockade and able to keep me out of hospital? etc etc etc

It seems that in fact the crux of the matter could very well be my LH level. Which is PCOS. Today's blood test results were FSH 8.4 and LH 15!!!!!!!! which is absolutely classic PCOS.

Dr Sher's theory is that the high LH which is further increased through stimulation is causing a massive amount of testosterone to be released which is in turn destroying the eggs. My clinic seemed to agree today for the first time that this could very well be the case.........finally... some possible answers appear to be forming??

What also came to light is that they have never treated someone like me before and called me a 'conundrum'. ie. I'm PCOS but not typical (ie. I've had two pregnancies, physically don't look like I have PCOS and I ovulate etc etc) and therefore the successful approach they have taken with traditional PCOS may be wrong for me is what she said....also she agreed that my Mother's history (so many multiple pregnancies) startled them and that there were probably clues in there too. They are very worried about OHSS because this is such a risk for me but as I said Dr Sher has never had a case of OHSS with prolonged coasting.

Anyway, long story cut short I appear to be making progress although am uncomfortable I'm at the leading edge with the clinic and don't want this to become the bleeding edge as they say in corporate speak.

I'm getting new sperm whatever - that's a certainty.

My other options are:
(1) Medicated IUI in November and December (but need to assess whether medication would increase LH which would kill the egg as this would defeat the object). they said just not worth doing unstimulated IUI.
(2) IVF cycle January/February - current clinic, long protocol following Dr Sher advice
(3) Swop clinics but move to which London one with PCOS expert? Lister, Bridge, ARGC for IVF

My clinic said Mr Trew is not a PCOS expert but that he does see a lot of celebrity's hence the Jamie Oliver link so do I proceed with consultation next Tuesday with Mr Trew or swop to Lister and try to see Dr Parikh or a PCOS expert? I think it has got to a point that I will be wasting my time unless I see someone who is a PCOS expert. Wondering how best to assess who is PCOS expert?

I have been open with the clinic about wanting some more UK opinions before we proceed and she was supportive of this and prepared to also contact experts for advice. 

I got the strong feeling today that they think I may be on to something with Dr Sher and that they are prepared to try something different....a bit worrying that my Consultant hadn't heard of Dr Sher previously?

I'm also going to have K562 Target Cell Test and Uterine Sonogram - just to be sure and to rule out other possibilities.

Would appreciate your thoughts on the above situation and particularly PCOS experts.

Thanks!
Coco xxx


----------



## lulumead

hi coco, just a thought but you could try totally natural IVF...no drugs, they just harvest egg and then pop embryo back...biggest risk is nothing to put back, but I am considering it, am wondering if drugs are not doing me any good.

just going to reply to your pm too
x


----------



## Sima

Hi Coco

I just wanted to say I am impressed with your attitude and that of your clinic's to work with you.  I know it is frustrating and time consuming but my guess is you are the best person to push your case forward.  Clinics are experts in their field but not many clinics simply have the time to look at each individual case on it's merits due to time and financial constraints so they try to fit in with the one protocol fits all approach.  This is not always the best approach for someone who does not fit into the "norm" like you.  I think it is really up to the individual to try and gather as much information as possible from other experts and with the help of boards like this and then to try and find a clinic which will work for you.  I can't give you any advice on finding a PCOS specialist since I do not suffer form that problem but I guess there is some merit in staying with a clinic which is local to you especially since they know how you respond to the medication and especially so if they are happy to work with other experts.  Will you have to pay extra for using your expert's services?  Good luck.

Lulu - how are you doing?  I read your news on the 2ww thread.  I do hope things turn around for you.  It looks like I might be going for one last shot with my own eggs using the natural IVF but I'll post more on this on the abroadies thread.

Sima


----------



## lulumead

its a no from me. Didn't want to post on the 2WW.

xx


----------



## wizard

Oh lulu I am so very sorry     You must be devastated, this whole thing is so unfair.  I am thinking of you.

Coco I am pleased that at last you seem to be making progress.  It is very hard work but as Sima says clinics just don't have the time to do the leg work and thinking - although I know that given what it costs us that is rather galling.  

Sima I hope you are having a productive time at the clinic and look forward to hearing your news.

Wizard x


----------



## Sima

Oh Lulu - I am so sorry   You had such a good response to the low stim.  You must be gutted.  Are you seriously considering going au naturale then? How much success has Create had doing this method?  How much does it cost?


----------



## Damelottie

Oh Lulu


----------



## Betty-Boo

Lulu       thinking of you x


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Lulu   sorry just doesn't cover it


----------



## Mifi

So sorry lulu    big    hunny XXXXXXXXXX


----------



## madmisti

Lulu- so so sorry hun    Be gentle with youself and don't give up hope 

lol
Misti xx


----------



## Felix42

Oh Lulu. I'm so very sorry.    
Wishing you lots of  for next steps. 
Love & hugs, Felix xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

lulu  so sorry


----------



## indekiwi

Lulu, I so wish the outcome had been different.    Hun, big      to you at this time.  

A-Mx


----------



## cocochanel1

Lulu, I'm so sorry to hear this - we should chat and put our heads together xxx


----------



## starbuck

Sorry to hear this wasn't the one for you Lulu.  

Starbuck
x


----------



## Roo67

Lulu - so so sorry that the outcome wasn't different  

I know it is so hard and nothing anyone can say will make it any better but it does get easier and your dream will come true one day.

R x


----------



## cocochanel1

Hi girls, Rose how are you? You haven't been posting as much. hard to know re cycle timing isn't it - such a juggling act.  I hope your jaw feels better soon. You were right on the button when you suggested Professor Stephen Franks - he seems to be the UK leading PCOS expert. Indekiwi (THANKS Inde) and I chatted last night and googled experts and he seems to have come up trumps. He is also speaking at the fertility show next week so I'm going to try to be there.

My decision for tonight is do I proceed with my appointment with Mr Trew on Tuesday or do I stick with a combination of The Wessex, Dr Sher and potentially Professor Stephen Franks. Must make a decision. want to get the best advice but don't want so many opinions that I get confused. I've also tentatively booked with Dr Gorgy and Dr Parikh so I have slots available whilst I work out best course of action...

Has anyone has a Target Cell Test k562?? Dr Sher has recommended this as the best immune screening test - I'd have to go to the Doctor's Lab next week but it will be £185 just to fedex + bloods to USA and then there will be a charge from Dr Sher for the test and results. So expensive!

Has anyone had a uterine sonogram? This is the other test Dr Sher has recommended.

I'm having a night of thinking it is all too much tonight! I want an easy life and am fed up with having to make doctor, donor sperm, clinic, protocol, timing and test decisions!!!!!!!!!!


Sarah & Winky, how did you get on with Dr Sher?

Coco xxx


----------



## lulumead

thanks for all your lovely thoughts. much appreciated.

just a quick one...
Sima: am definitely going to talk about natural IVF with my consultant...it costs around £1800 but obviously no drug costs on that , and there stats say 20% for my age group...of course there is the possibility of no eggs and a waste of a lot of money.  Alternatively i am thinking back to IUI's but this will mean another hycosy under sedation so my tubes don't spasm again  
but I think i want to know if my tubes are really blocked or not...1st hycosy was inconclusive.

actually looking forward to not thinking about it for a while. hoping to persuade mr NY that he wants a visitor before christmas but he is here in January anyway so I'm not planning on doing anything until february.

xx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Lulu - a bit late as I've been offline, but so sorry to hear your news and sending big   
Hope you manage to sort out your next steps soon, and enjoy some time with Mr American in the meantime  

Hello everyone else....hope all are well. Way too busy at work at the moment so not managing to FF as much as I'd like!

Suitcase
x


----------



## winky77

Heck.....just taken me ages to catch up with things on here!

Lulu.....so sorry....I had everything crossed for you...big   A bit of fun with NY man will hopefully take your mind of things for a while....

Coco.....wow ....all your tenacious research is paying off ....well done for being so persistent....it sounds like you've already reached this conclusion but the thing that struck me about your earlier posts is that you are a *non standard * case of PCOS and as such I would think having a PCOS expert on board to advise your treatment plan is v sensible rather than just another doctor who thinks they know the basics about PCOS....tis clear your case is not a usual one and your mum's history is a strong indicator of that too. I am really inspired and looking forward to my consult with Dr Sher now....I don't know when it is yet....I am still ploughing through the pre-consult form as I've got so much history to document!!! In fact have just turned down going out for a drink with my lodger who is meeting up with a single male work colleague and his possibly also single brother who lives in my town....so I can stay in and read Dr Beer's book and fill in the form for SIRM! How sad is that?!?!? I have told her to text me if they are drop dead gorg tho...and then I'll drag myself off the sofa and head out ! Have also said to text me if they are heading back here for a cuppa so I can hide my 'Is my body friendly' and 'Taking Charge of Your Fertility' books !

Rose....I am tempted to say go for early Dec then we can by cycle buddies and 40ww buddies! But only you can decide what feels right....am glad things are moving forward tho...

...Wonky


----------



## bluprimrose

lulu - i am so so sorry about your sad news, i really am.  i'm sending you     .  i have been away with work all week and am very behind so sorry for my late hugs.  i was really     this was going to be your time - you so deserve it.

rose, good luck with deciding when to cycle - i was looking hoping to be cycle buddies and looking forward to smiling at you across the recovery room again!  i'm on day 3 of the bcp and am starting down-regging on day 17 - eeeek!  here we go again.  it's hard with work isn't it, to find the right time.  i'm just taking the approach that work and life will have to work around my treatment - easier said than done i know.

coco - you are amazing.  the research you've done and the answers you've had the strength to search for mean you are incredibly inspiring and impressive and i'm so glad you're finally getting the answers you were hoping for.  i've had my first consultation with dr sher this evening (thanks to you and others on ff)!  i was just wondering, how will it work with him speaking to your clinic?  is he happy to explain the coasting approach with your consultant (he suggested the same approach for me and i'd love him to explain it to my clinic).  i've already paid for my next tx and definitely don't have the £s to fly off to las vegas anytime soon!  is he going to charge you to speak to your doctor?  i'd love him to speak to mine to suggest the coasting he talked about.  i'd love to talk to you in more detail about him too - and your findings etc.  would you mind?  re your question about mr trew, i think i've said before - i think he is wonderful and trust him completely - but having said that, i don't think he is of the same school of thought as dr sher et al so he may not tell you what you want to hear which may leave you feeling confused.  i have also seen mr rai at st mary's who works with professor regan - mr rai's who i've had my recent blood tests with and am hoping to see him next week to discuss the results.

sorry if i've missed anyone, i'm on my last legs and off to bed soon.

looks like a few of us singlies are getting going again soon.  it's so good to be in this with you lovely, understanding and supportive ladies.

lol

bpxx


----------



## cocochanel1

Hi girls, gosh I'm worn out thinking about next steps. 

I've made some decisions. I'm going to cancel the Mr Trew and Dr Gorgy appointments next Tuesday and instead will concentrate on contacting Professor Stephen Franks who is the UK leading PCOS expert, attend the Fertility Show on Friday when he is speaking and probably have the target cell test for immunes that Dr Sher recommended although it is jolly expensive - £30 for bloods to be taken at TDL, £150 for FedEx to USA and then the cost of the test plus consultation with Dr Sher.
Have pretty much decided to cycle again with my clinic using the new protocol and to have The Lister with Dr Parikh as my back-up. Ie. if it doesn't work with my clinic in the new year then consider switching to The Lister or travelling to Vegas next year. Ruled out ARGC on the basis they don't treat single women.
I don't think I can process too many different opinions from lots of different doctors and I think 3 is probably enough to make a judgement call (ie. my clinic, Dr Sher and Prof Franks).

Three decisions still to make are (1) whether I need full immune tests or not... (2) where to get sperm - Bridge would swop my sperm for new sperm but they don't have any tall, cmv -ve, proven fertility donors. So only option would be to import? How much does this cost and am I right thinking European Sperm Bank, Danish Cryobank and Xytec are the favourites?? Can anyone help me with this please? (3) Do I do medicated IUI's in the meantime - risk is that the drugs will still increase my LH which will ruin the eggs - I have to find an expert to ask about this...

BP/Winky thanks for your comments.

Coco  xxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## lulumead

hi coco

ESB costs...you have to pay a 1000 euro pregnancy slot, 300 E shipment and then its either 275 or 350 E depending on if you have IVF or ICI units.

xx


----------



## cocochanel1

Thanks Lulu, wow it soon adds up doesn't it. I've just had a brainwave and am wondering about using up the sperm I've got on unmedicated IUI. Given that it may be the drugs that are causing the problem for me (with my high LH) and that The Bridge don't have any suitable sperm to swop my existing with and I'd only get £75 per vial to sell it back perhaps it is worth a shot on unmedicated IUIs?? I'd have no sperm cost and only the cost of the IUI. Clinic said they had no pregnancy from unmedicated IUI last year but perhaps that is because they don't do many?
Decisions, decisions xxx


----------



## lulumead

I kind of wished I hadn't wasted my time on natural IUI's and will probably push for clomid if I am going to do them again. Having said that I don't see why they can't work, the stats are just low...probably around 5% but as we know its only ever about the right egg at the right time!  So if it feels good to be doing something and the cost isn't too prohibitive, it might be worth a shot.
Some things have to work better for some people...after all we are not all the same and are affected by things in different ways.
xx


----------



## cocochanel1

Yes quite....it all seems a lottery to me and I for one am fed up with throwing huge amounts of money at what amounts to a bet. I don't like it at all!

I'm having a day of thinking that perhaps I should just give up........I feel like I'm having to work so hard to get answers and meanwhile life is passing me by and I'm not enjoying what I've got because I'm 150% focused on finding out why it hasn't worked and what I need to do differently.....It feels like it would be easier to give up but then that would be it wouldn't it. No more children. 

What to do?! Does anyone else feel like this?
Coco xxx


----------



## lulumead

yep  

and I can't even hold onto my china adoption as that seems so unlikely to happen now.  I've been in the process of trying to have a baby for the past 4 years now. Can't meet anyone as this overshadows everything. Am totally fed up with it. but ultimately if I want to be a mum then the next couple of years have to be about this, and then I will probably give up, wait a bit and switch to UK adoption...am thinking this will factor at some point anyway regardless of if I have a birth child, as I know I want more than one.

Or as my mum handily pointed out, maybe I should try and get a man!  Oh yeah I forgot about that option  

x


----------



## Sima

Lulu     I liked your comment about finding a man.  I almost forgot about that one   Sadly for me this whole fertility journey has only served to show that I would have had to go down this route anyway.  I have blocked tubes and fibroids so there is no way I could have avoided IVF and further ops sadly.  I do think I am being tested by some higher power.  I know there are other people who have gone through much more than me but this is all sooooo much hard work.


----------



## lulumead

perhaps we need to pool the single men we know  

and yes who knows even with man in tow I might be in this situation. I just can't shake my instinct that I wouldn't be...maybe very naive, but on paper everything is as it should be....but then lots of people have unexplained infertility I suppose.

Have to stop googling as am totally depressing myself, reading that after 3 attempts I am basically  f****d!

I really don't want to go for the full on drug situation but maybe that's what I need to do.

Definitely need some second opinion. 

xx


----------



## Sima

Lulu - I'm no expert but I really do not see why you would need to go on a full on drug treatment.  You clearly produce a good number of eggs on low dosage and I'm sure that even if you went to another clinic they would keep you on a similar dosage due to your previous response.  There must be something else going on which is affecting implantation.  Have you looked into immune issues or clotting issues.  Perhaps it is the supporting drugs you need to look into rather than the stimulation dose.  Having said that there are examples of ladies who managed to conceive natrually after failing to do so with IVF.  I think Mistilake might be an example of this but if not her then definitely someone else on the this board.  Do stop googling for today and have a break.    Are you going to the fertility show next week?  Perhaps you can find some answers  there or at least you can hear what some of the other clinics are up to.


----------



## blueytoo

Lulu - where did you get the 1000 Euro pregnancy slot fee from for ESB? I can't see anything on their website about it and am fairly sure that Sarah didn't mention paying that to me.  

As for your issues, well as Sima said you make a reasonable number of eggs on very low doses but unless you have had the full immune testing then you aren't unexplained. The full immune work up includes clotting tests too. If you had any immune/clotting issues you could still combine with your low dose drugs so don't panic about needing to go down the "I have to take eleventy million different drugs" road just yet!  

Claire xx


----------



## lulumead

I think you only get to find out about that when you need to import but its worth flagging up as not all the donors will be still available to UK if their slots are taken. They sent me a list of who was available.

I'm just not convinced about the immune thing as there are so many conflicting opinions and research.  My clinic advise taking aspirin as a matter of course.

I will definitely ask about supporting drugs as only on the 1st go did I get to test date without spotting but that was because it was biochemical. Again my clinic says that cyclogest won't stop you bleeding if it hasn't worked...so maybe i need a bigger dose to begin...

blah blah blah....boring myself now so going to shut up  

xx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Feisty - if you're importing from ESB to Reprofit, then no £1000 preg slot cost - that's only for importing into UK to comply with HFEA regulations and ensure the donor does not exceed the max 10 pregnancies in UK....

Suitcase
x


----------



## blueytoo

Lulu - thanks, sounds like the fee won't apply to me as not importing to the UK so that's good!

Re: research, actually there has been no research that shows that the immune issues don't exist, all studies have shown they exist and that the correct drugs work. However, sadly, in this country there are a couple of NHS working leading miscarriage specialists whom have tried to dismiss it causing great distress to many and more miscarriages. Their opinions and so-called "research" has been discredited scientifically. 

One day, the NHS and the private clinics in this country whom don't work with immune protocols will wake up and realise that there is now 30 years worth of cases of immune protocols working with an 85% success rate and they will feel ashamed that they allowed thousands of patients to go on experiencing BFN's, miscarriages and still births. Especially when the clinics that don't do immune protocols in the UK only have a 35% success rate at best.

Yes it is correct that cyclogest/gestone won't stop you bleeding or spotting if it hasn't worked or you are having a biochemical. I didn't have any spotting or bleeding at all with my first cycle that resulted in my DS but on every other cycle I have started spotting from day 5/6 after transfer with bleeding starting at around day 7/8 after transfer. Even with my bio chemical that was the case and it was fairly high HcG numbers. You can double up cyclogest to two a day but I think that is the maximum dose. The only cycle I have ever got to test date with was my first with my son.

If you don't want the immune tests then I guess you'll just have to keep on going as you are, switch back to IUI or as you say try naturally. Why do you think you are F****d after 3 attempts? Most IVF attempts statistically work on attempts 4-6 not 1-3. 

Would you consider switching clinics to one with better success rates? One of the vital components of success is having the best embryologists and some of the other clinics in London have the leading embryologists in the world. 

Good luck with making your mind up!

Claire xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

I do think the nhs not embracing immune issues could be a funding issue not nec just different scoops of thought and research- the tests are expensive and treatment even more- the true cost price of an nhs cycle is less than a private dose of ivig.
L


----------



## blueytoo

♥JJ1♥ said:


> I do think the nhs not embracing immune issues could be a funding issue not nec just different scoops of thought and research- the tests are expensive and treatment even more- the true cost price of an nhs cycle is less than a private dose of ivig.
> L


But they already use IViG on the NHS for many other patients - transplant patients, babies in SCBU, people with Crohns etc.

The NHS "experts" I'm talking about though aren't coming at it from a spending point of view. They've gone to great lengths to discredit it as a treatment whilst hypocritically agreeing with and treating some clotting issues. I don't have an issue with the NHS not funding IViG for infertility per se, more that what they say to vulnerable women desperate for help after suffering multiple miscarriages and the effect that has with all but the top 3 private UK clinics following their lead.


----------



## cocochanel1

Feisty, which do you consider the top 3 UK clinics? Are they Lister, ARGC and ?
Thanks.
Coco xxx


----------



## Betty-Boo

Agree with Fiesty - I'm booked into to see Prof Ian Greer (NHS) ref clotting disorder.  He's the country's - if not worlds (my GP's words) expert on pre conception disorders.....  There are some great guys out there - its just finding them...


----------



## blueytoo

cocochanel1 said:


> Feisty, which do you consider the top 3 UK clinics? Are they Lister, ARGC and ?
> Thanks.
> Coco xxx


I take it by success rates so yes it is Lister, ARGC and Care and conversely they are the only ones following full immune protocols properly.

Claire xx


----------



## blueytoo

mini minx said:


> Agree with Fiesty - I'm booked into to see Prof Ian Greer (NHS) ref clotting disorder. He's the country's - if not worlds (my GP's words) expert on pre conception disorders..... There are some great guys out there - its just finding them...


It's supposed to be Prof Lesley Reagan that is the top NHS expert on clotting disorders & pre conception disorders. She's also supposed to be the top NHS miscarriage expert but only believes in clotting disorders and not in the immunes.

It's a sad state of affairs when actually there isn't a single NHS doctor in this country that is any good because if they don't believe in the medical and scientific research that has proven the case for 30 years WRT to immunotherapy, then what hope is there for people that just can' afford to pay privately? It's fine if a patient doesn't have any immune issues but there is no way of knowing without testing.

The whole thing makes me so cross. Doctors in this country are so closed minded with such massive egos that they aren't doing the best for their patients and to make it worse we pay for this "service" through our taxes!

Ugh.

Claire xx


----------



## cocochanel1

Feisty, how interesting that the top 3 clinics (by success rates) are the only ones that follow immune protocols. 

The more I read, the more I believe that ultimately the best chance we have is to do our own research and probing. I don't believe half of what I hear from Consultants anymore and as I've proved with my clinic who are now following my suggestions they absolutely don't know it all. Had I not pushed for further LH testing etc we would not know that I have PCOS and had I not pushed to try Dr Sher's approach we would still be doing the same things. 

I don't believe I'm at a bad clinic, perhaps the Lister of ARGC would have taken me down a different route earlier on (maybe, maybe not) but I think that now I've got my clinic on the right road I do stand a better chance for next time.  I've emailed you about something else. 
xxx


----------



## Betty-Boo

This is the guy I'm booked in to see...

http://www.hyms.ac.uk/staff/greer.asp

May not be the top guy but is pretty close.

/links


----------



## cocochanel1

Hi girls, I'm booked to see Dr Gorgy at 9am tomorrow - decided to take the plunge and (hopefully) rule out immune issues. Any advice re questions I should ask please? or tests to take?
Thanks, Coco xxx


----------



## bluprimrose

hi coco

i saw him today - totally unplanned - and now my blood is winging it's way to chicago!!

i was passing so popped in to make an appointment and he'd just had a cancellation so i saw him - totally unprepared, i had nothing with me - normally i would have gone with reams of notes.

my advice is take out a small mortgage for the blood tests!  also, some you can have at your gp - i had 7 vials taken this morning.

dr g will give you the tests you need so don't worry, but you could ask him if any can be done at your gps.

good luck coco!

sorry for this rushed message, am at work.

bpxx


----------



## Betty-Boo

BP - here's hoping the results come back with some explanations for you honey   x

Coco all the best honey for your appt tomorrow x x


----------



## lulumead

HI Fraggles

I have definitely felt all those things!  I blubbed big time before my 1st iui wondering what I was doing. But the way I look at it is people that want babies in relationships are not questioned about their motives or told they are trying to have it all, why should we be any different because the right man/partner has not come along. How many relationships split up when babies are born, no one criticises them!  At least we are examining constantly why we are doing this and ensuring we are making the best possible decisions that we can.
Having wobbles is all part of it. I am currently have a few tears and woe is me time, but I just can't see an alternative at the moment, as that would mean deciding not to be a mum which I am not yet ready to do.
Sorry not very coherent at the moment, am in brain meltdown.
anyway lots of     
we are here whenever you have wobbles  

xx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Hi Fraggles,

 

Just wanted to add to what the others have said....it's totally normal to have these sorts of wobbles - they come and go, but especially they come when you're about to start treatment. I've been having a bit of a wobble myself at the moment as my DE cycle kicks off...wondering if DE is the right path for me etc. Deep down I know full well it is, it's just sad sometimes because this wasn't how I thought my life would be

Lulu makes a great point though - no one ever questions couples who get pregnant, it's OK for them to have children regardless of how stable their relationship is, how long it might last, how financially secure they are, what sort of parents they will make. And yet we who have given so much thought to this, made sure we are in the right situation practically and emotionally to give a child/children a stable and loving environment to grow up in, we are labelled as selfish obsessives who believe it's our right to have children at the expense of everything else. 

My dad died when I was young, was my mum selfish to bring me and my sisters into the world not being sure that we would have a father for our entire lives? Of course not, that's an absurd thing to say! And similarly we are not bringing children into the world who will never have fathers/positive male role models - we may just not have found them yet  

I say trust in your own instincts, trust that you have thought this through, that this is not only right for you, but right for the child, and don't listen to uninformed and ignorant people....their views are their problem and not yours. 
Totally natural to feel nervous now that it's so close, just hold on to the feelings you had when you made the decision, and you'll be fine

Best of luck for the IUI,
Suitcase
x

PS DON'T read the Daily Mail, and def don't read the comments afterwards....not worth expending any energy on that sort of nonsense at all


----------



## Sima

Fraggles - take a look at this thread. http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=213397.0

You should also post this question on the bumps and babies thread since many of them are actually going through or have been through the telling stage.

As for you me I plan on telling my child that they are donor conceived from the beginning. I will have to use age appropriate language of course.

Sima


----------



## cocochanel1

Hi girls, well I feel really silly. I went all the way to London to see Mr Gorgy and to have some immune tests (particularly k562 as advised by Dr Sher) and came away having seen Mr Gorgy but without having a single test.
I felt overwhelmed by the appointment and to be honest by Mr G's attitude and consequent list of tests he thought I should take (as opposed to k562) : ie NK Cell Assay, TH1, TH2, Cytocan Ration and Thromobophilia - all for a grand total of about £1150!
My head was spinning partly through not understanding what the tests do and also not understanding why he doesn't do the test Dr Sher has advised and why he said he wouldn't be able to interpret the results of it. So upon feeling utterly confused I decided leaving was the best plan and to return when my judgement and common sense had returned. 
Oh boy how stupid do I feel!!! 
Can anyone help me understand any of this please? As far as I'm aware I don't have immune issues so I really don't know whether I should be having the tests or not. 
Coco xxxx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Coco - I'll give you a call tomorrow - this evening got messed up as class cancelled, but now have tonnes of work to do for a workshop tomorrow....

Briefly though, sounds to me like Dr G just prescribed the 'standard' immune tests for you, potentially without really listening to what you wanted/what your issues were. At least I had the NK cell assay, and the TH1/TH2 tests. Can't remember if I had the others - will dig out my paperwork before we talk tomorrow

Best not to have booked any tests I think - don't feel stupid though - sounds like this might be Dr G's failing not yours  

Talk to you soon
Suitcase
x


----------



## blueytoo

Sorry this is a bit rushed but I've got a business crisis!

The reason Dr G said that about the K562 is that Dr Sher and other American clinics are the only ones doing the test, it is not done in this country. It is reserved for people that have negative immune results but still no pregnancy with no other explanation. I think it is a fairly new test.

If you haven't had the tests Dr G recommended then you have no way of knowing if you have immune issues. His tests would have told you that as well as checking for some clotting issues too. Even women that test negative for the level 1 NKC test (not the assay which is a level 2 test) can have immune issues. If you had the full tests advised by Dr G and they all came back negative then it would make sense to have the K562 test, however if you got some positive results from Dr G's tests and he prescribed you IViG/intralipids then you wouldn't need the K562 test as those drugs would cover you anyway.

Claire xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Rose so pleased that you have a plan and under way.

Coco- so frustrating to see that your Dr Gorgy appt was even less helpful. It does sound like the standard immune treaments and assay he has offered you. Hope that you find a way forward

L x


----------



## lulumead

sorry...haven't really responded much in the last couple of days....so popping on to send lots of love.

lots of     to you Rose.

Coco: grrrr...its all so frustrating isn't it!

hugs to all
xx


----------



## cocochanel1

Lulu, grrrrrrr is exactly the right phrase. I've totally lost the faith with the so called experts! I was quite shocked by Mr Gorgy. I've decided to do the test Dr Sher has asked me to do and that is it for now. How are you? xxx


----------



## lulumead

Pretty fed up with it all to be honest. Work has turned to s*** too just to add to it.  Holding onto Mr NY's return in January but trying not to invest in it too much as knowing my luck at the moment he will come back announcing he is getting married or has got someone pregnant  

Off to the GP tomorrow then the clinic in two weeks to hear the "just unlucky" line. 

I'll save my positive vibes for others for the moment...much easier  

xx


----------



## lulumead

thanks Fraggles...be interested to hear how you get on in Athens...Sima, seemed to have a very good experience.

Well, my nice GP has given me forms to have FSH/LH and progesterone done on the NHS so thats something, however she is having to find out if she can refer me to a specialist what with being single. I pointed out that that is really discrimination, and surely after 3 IUI's and 3 IVF's it might suggest some issue not just being single.  However, she said it looks like I might have a case of unexplained fertility issues....she's going to call me back and let me know if she can refer.  Annoyingly I had to take my adopters medical form to be updated but she has to get one of the other doctors who is officially my GP to fill in it, and then I pay £35...just to tick a couple of boxes and sign their name.  But am thinking positively as at least I got the blood tests for free.

Hope everyone else is ok.
xx


----------



## cocochanel1

Hi Lulu who are you hoping to be referred to? Would this be NHS? xx


----------



## lulumead

yes...was hoping I might be able to get a second opinion on the NHS. GP called me back to say as I have has 3 treatments (even though private) I don't qualify.  So at least I got the blood tests done.
xx


----------



## cocochanel1

Lulu - bummer!
Fraggles - my private health insurance will not pay anything that is linked to fertility however remote. I tried to get something covered recently re tests and when it came down to it they wouldn't pay.

xxx


----------



## bluprimrose

just to let you all know that i'd thoroughly recommend the fertility show.  (don't think i've said that on this thread yet?!!)

lol

bpxx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Fraggles re private insurance have a look on the argc thread as some of the girls ha e claimed bits of treatment/blood back eg diagnostic hysteroscopues bloods I think some had immune bloods from argc and dr gorgy.
Raj rai- st marys mc expert works privately out if 92 harley st- v anti immune\ nk cells etc, - it all depends if hour private insurance regognises the drs/clinics. If they put gynaecology investigations etc it helps rary have I hot a receipt that says infertility directly- not that I have private insurance though.
L x


----------



## Sima

Hi Fraggles - when I made enquiries under my private health insurance for fertility investigation/treatment my company said no.  But I have managed to get my two hysteroscopies and one of my aquascans paid for in full via my health insurance by telling them I have on going gyne issues.  They know I have fibroids and I told the company that they were affecting my life eg discomfort, pain and so the doctor recommends I have them out.  They were happy with this but I consciously had to avoid the word infertility though I could say this was a by product of my condition.  So my advice to you is to do as JJ1 said and try to get any treatment done under the general heading gynaecological treatment.  If your company signs of treatment with a specific consultant then you might be able to put through fertility blood tests and investigations under your general treatment.  Drs are used to this and can help you with your forms.

Good luck with this and your trip to Athens this week.

Sima


----------



## cocochanel1

With all the recent positives with donor eggs (hooray! ) is anyone else wondering if we are kidding ourselves about getting pregnant with late 30's, early 40's eggs? It has certainly made me wonder whether age of eggs is more to blame than anything else?
Coco xxx


----------



## lulumead

oh my, coco...you have just voiced exactly what i was thinking  
Seems almost the only positive news is with donor eggs - fabulous to get a three out of three. Very pleased.

I think I am just not ready at 37 and with good AMH to move to donor eggs...but who knows time may come. I think you are right though that it probably takes longer with older eggs.  My friend who is a year older than me, fell 1st month with her 1st 4 years ago and then took over a year and some clomid for her second...the difference is that we can't afford a year of treatment! I'm convinced with a year of good hard action I would fall naturally  

I suppose its really just down to when you are ready to move onto donor eggs, if no luck.
xxx


----------



## bluprimrose

I too think it's my old eggs stopping me getting a bfp but it's hard to give up on your own eggs isn't it while you know you still have them.

bpxx


----------



## cocochanel1

Lulu, completely agee - think if I was trying naturally with someone who is fertile that I'd fall pregnant within a year or so but how many times might we have to pay for treatment to make it happen with own eggs? My amh too is very good - 55.4 but what does this mean?.. I have lots of eggs but so far not one has implanted yet I know I can make babies as have done in the past... so does this just mean it is a function of age? ..very confusing indeed. I think that I will try again with my own eggs but not sure I'm prepared to keep going for very much longer as it is so all consuming on all levels and I have a whole life to lead not just fertility treatment which is pretty much what the last year or so has been about..
Bp, yep know what you mean. So how was the show? What did you learn? 

xxx


----------



## bluprimrose

Shall i tell you the scariest thing i learnt?  I went to a fantastic seninar by simon fishel of care.  He was responsible for baby oliver who's been in the news recently - born to a woman who'd had 13 ivf attempts.  On this one the team at care used cgh array to determine which of her 7 (i think it was) embryos were genetically normal.  Only 2 were and they were put back.  The scary thing is she had other embryos that were grade 1 and 8 and 10 cells but they were found to be genetically abnormal.  The ones she had put back were something like 4 cell grade 3.  It makes me think of all my embryos i've said good-bye to when my grade 1 8 cell embies have been put back in.

It seems that what i've been doing so far is a guessing game.

And am about to embark on anotherm

Will tell you more when i'm bacl coco.  Am still away and using my brother's blackberry which isn't easy!

Lol

bpxx


----------



## cocochanel1

BP, very interesting. Yes, I think CGH is the way forward but so limited in availability in this country xxx


----------



## lulumead

I've always felt that the gradings don't really help!  Its only what they look like down a microscope.
Basically it all comes down to luck as you get older and the magic egg coming to the forefront.  

xx


----------



## bluprimrose

Rose, i'm there with you if my next cycle doesn't work (not that we must think like that).  If they can tell which ones are genetically normal it seems madness to play a guessing game, don't you think?  At least the extra 2k (not that i have it) is cheaper than another pointless cycle.

Gosh it's so hard...

bpxxxx


----------



## bluprimrose

P.s. What are the criteria rose to take part in the trial?  And is it cgh array or cgh?  Are they doing it now?  You've probably thought of this anyway, but a way round the problem (sort of) is to let all of the embies they don't put in on day 3 to go to day 5 - if any go to blast you freeze them and if they don't they wouldn't have made it anyway (unless you believe that putting them in the uterus is better than lab conditions).  That way there are no unanswered questions - it's what i did last time.


bpxx


----------



## Fraggles

Hi
Does Penny do CGH do we know?
Fraggles x


----------



## cocochanel1

Rose, BP - very interesting re the grading and the embryo's that made it. I am beginning to wonder about CGH. It is cheap compared to another failed cycle. I think I will contact Care Nottingham to investigate further.

I am feeling low today. I went to my GP this afternoon to get more forms for HIV/Hep B/C etc and for the first time started to feel like she was not so supportive of me continuing with treatment. She sort of asked if I was sure I wasn't trying to have a baby to solve a different 'issue'?........ why is it as a single person people feel they have the right to quiz on motives yet if I was married popping out my 5th child wouldn't be questioned? I don't get it. She said she was concerned for my emotional and physical well being (which I appreciate) if I continued to chase this but what is the alternative? Just accept that I can't have anymore children?
She showed me a letter the clinic had written to her that brought her up to speed but also said that I was convinced that it was only the 'lack of sperm' that was the issue when in fact I am nearing 40 and that in fact naturally I would have a low chance of conceiving....I've asked the clinic to copy me on all letters in future I think they should keep me in the loop.

So now I don't know what to do. It all feels so complicated, do I have immune tests with Mr G or don't I, do I stay with my clinic or move? Do I change protocols on the off chance that Dr Sher is right? 
Uh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How is everyone else? xxxx


----------



## bluprimrose

hi coco

just a quickie.  i can totally understand your frustration.  

i personally think you should have the immune tests done - then they're done and you'll know if there's an issue and also won't regret that you didn't have them done (like i almost did as my next tx was approaching).  they are expensive but they might give you some answers.

unfortunately us singlies have to put up with people not always understanding and sometimes being insensitive, but we're strong - so don't let it set you back.

am seeing mr gorgy on wednesday so will let you know how i get on.

hello everyone!  just to let you all know - i went to my gp this afternoon armed with a list of all the drugs i may need and will need.  most he couldn't prescribe as they're too obviously for ivf, but he did prescribe me cyclogest as it can also be used for other things.  so give it a go!

sorry this is so rushed.

   to all.

bpxx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Coco

I'm also feeling quite low today (see my post on DE thread - I won't whinge on here as well....) so prob not the best person to be giving advice or trying to cheer people up. We must chat soon - I've been super busy but let's try to talk later this week, although I'm off to Helsinki on Weds so might be tricky. You're coming Sat though aren't you? So we can catch up face to face then which will be even better  

In some ways I guess fair enough of your GP to ask the question (re whether you are looking to solve a different issue) - my counsellor also asked me this. But once I made it clear that there were no other issues, just my very real desire for a child, she has been nothing but supportive. In a way I suppose your GP was just looking out for you....
That said, clinic should not be sending letters to GP without you getting a copy. Check what you agreed to at your clinic - I know that I told mine not to contact my GP at all (I don't get on with my GP!) and so instead they send me 2 copies of letters - presumably so I can give one to my GP if I choose to. 

Hope you feel a bit better soon hun, look forward to catching up at the weekend,
Suitcase
x


----------



## cocochanel1

Thanks BP and Suity   and extra hugs Suity hope you feel better soon.

I completely missed this link but do you guys know that it is Dr Sher who started CGH and that he worked with Dr Simon Fishel, at the Care clinic in Nottingham? If I switch clinics I think it will be to Care Nottingham. Have just ordered their brochure. Does anyone have any experience of Care? I think this is the way forward in IVF and suspect that in years to come CGH will be bau? They also do immunes. 
Coco xxx


----------



## Fraggles

Hi Rose
Would you be willing to share the email with me please? 
Fraggles x


----------



## winky77

Does anyone else feel like they are studying for a PHD in IVF?!?!?!?  

Apologies in advance .....ME post coming up....   

So some of you know I was having my tel consult with Dr Sher from CIRM Las Vegas today.....and I am reeling with shock and fair lot of despair at the stark reality he very honestly has spelled out to me. Here's just a few of the lowlights: 

1. With the combination of my autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimotos disease) and raised NK cells I will never get/stay pregnant beyond a few days without very individualised treatment and have no chance without intrallipids (i.e. what I have done in last three cycles with steroids, clexane etc has been totally insufficient and I've basically wasted all those embryos )
2. My embryo quality is giving false hope - what looks good down a microscope can still be seriously flawed because of my age - he quoted stats of two identical looking blast embyros in terms of quality but one from a 30 year old = 35% chance - and one from 43 year old = 10% chance (and that's without the issues referred to in 1. )
3. No point going down donor egg route with the issues referred to in 1. 
4. He says that if the fibroid I have is encroaching on the cavity and has broken through rather than just bulging then it will be making my body produce 'necrophages'? which will stop the embyro implanting and it definately needs to be removed.  ( i just thought the issue was an embryo wouldnt implant where the fibroid is rather than dodgy cells being produced!)
5. At 42/43 only 1 in 10 embryos will be normal - PGD won't comprehensively assess the embryo and is too risky for the embryo. 
6. A short protocol will not work and I would have to do a long protocol  - something to do with testosterone and LH being more  active in older women.
7. There are certiain drugs which will effect the embryo quality at my age (listed a few but remember cetrotide was one of them) 

So after all of that , Dr Sher did then go on to how he can help and kind of moved from a soft sell to a harder sell of encouraging me to going out to Las Vegas.  Said time was of the essence with my age and I could come January 11th and would need to stay for 12 days.  


He then promised to send me lots of articles (which he has already) and then transferred me to someone else who went through the costs - basically when translated into £ it came to £7600 for single cycle with ICSI  plus a further $2400 IF I got the drugs through them. 


SO ...I really respected his knowledge altho found his deliver a little patronising at times ' you need to listen to this very carefully' he kept saying!  But what do I do now?!??! 
DO I cancel going to Reprofit at the end of this month?  Can  I even afford the Las Vegas option......not unless I win the lottery.  Do I still go to Reprofit  - invest in intrallipids - forget the PGD....but then if do get preggers have a stressful time questionning it's viability or that something is wrong with the baby becuase of my age?
If I am still going to Reprofit I need to be ordering the drugs tomorrow and starting stimms early next week......not much time then to make a decision....

Your honest thoughts are welcome....


----------



## Betty-Boo

Winky - I think he's been very honest with you and told you exactly how it is.  

Personally I would be more inclined to go with him and save like mad in the mean time - Reprofit have had their exceptional moments but to me it does seem a little too often now that they are c**king it up!  (You only have to read the repro threads to see that - their success will be their downfall if they're not careful).  Getting protocols wrong, cancelling cycles at last minute, giving everyone the bog standard immune protocol - did say in an earlier post that I couldn't understand the heparin when you don't have clotting issues.  
I'm seriously thinking of staying with GCRM - at least then I'm have the backing of one of the UK's top haematologists.  
It's so sad honey - I really don't know what to say for the best... Is it carrying a child that's most important or having a child?  I seriously think that talking things through with a fertility counsellor might help you honey. 
As for money - you and you alone can say whether you can afford this - is it worth asking if the clinic in USA will team up with GCRM??  Might help matters?  
Take care honey and and take time x x


----------



## Roo67

Winky - am just off to work but didn't want to read and run.

it sounds like you have a great deal to think about and as Mini says he has been very honest with you, however hard that is to hear. I would say maybe cancel this cycle which will give you a lot more time to work things out in your head.

Talking through with a fertility counsellor is also a good idea.

Huge huge   to you.

R x


----------



## Damelottie

Oh good gracious Winky - you head must be reeling  

I totally agree with Mini if thats any help. It feels that Reprofit are maybe not the best clinic if you have very specific issues to deal with and Dr Sher has highlighted a few there. I have no experience/knowledge of some of those but there is something about his response that feels right somehow  . Does his costs include sorting out the fibroid? Could that be done over here to help with cost?


----------



## blueytoo

Winky - I think Mini has got it spot on. If I had extra issues (and after my Dr G testing I may well find more) which meant that combining Dr Sher's protocol with immune protocol and being able to go to Reprofit wasn't a possibility I would save like mad and then go to SIRM Las Vegas and miss out Reprofit altogether. 

I've already decided that if having 2 attempts at Reprofit (Jan +March) isn't successful and I don't end up with any frosties, then I will be saving up and going to las Vegas in 2011. It's the flights that are the killer cost for me as due to my knee problem I can't fly long haul in Economy or Premium Economy and need a flat bed as the recline in the other seats is agony on my knees. Now that my DS will be 12 in January he counts as an adult fare so two adult tickets in Upper/First Class is   Luckily I have quite a lot of Virgin miles which I could use, if I can get the reward flights!

I think that SIRM represents my best chance of getting and more importantly, staying pregnant. I think, from what you have said, that it may be the same for you. Their protocols are so tailored and the success rates so good that I feel, personally, it's the way to go.

I think with the added complication of your Hashimotos it does sound like SIRM is the best place for you. If you didn't go to Reprofit then that would be about £3k (flights, accomodation,food, drugs & tx) towards the cost of a cycle in Las Vegas wouldn't it?

It's a hard choice hun   

Claire xx


----------



## cocochanel1

Winky,    

The more I hear and read about Dr Sher the more I believe what he has to say. He has more experience and knowledge than most other IVF Consultants combined. I agree with Mini too. If I were you I'd cancel the next cycle, take some other advice and chat this all through with a counsellor. I'm considering CARE in Nottingham as they have been working with Dr Sher and may represent the best UK option with SIRM influence and they do CGH and immunes. Dr Sher won't 'share care' with a UK clinic.
I am still considering Vegas but the logistics for me are mighty difficult. 
Hugs to you in the meantime. Coco  xxxx


----------



## Damelottie

Might Care in Nottingham be a more cost effective solution then Winky? xxx


----------



## Violet66

My honest opinion would be to definitely cancel this upcoming cycle at Reprofit. From the sounds of things it has no chance of working and why put yourself through all the stress, misery and expense for no reason - especially just before Christmas? 

I see that you've already tried one cycle with DE, so presumably you have made your peace with this route? I would advise you to forget about trying to use your own eggs if you are in your 40s. The chances of getting pregnant through IVF , and then carrying to term after the age of 42 are ridiculously small. I think even the 10% chance you were quoted is rather generous. 

I (after getting expert advice) had my fibroids removed before having my treatment. If that's what you end up doing you will need to factor about another £5,000 into the cost, unless you're lucky and get it on the NHS.

From my experience, any fees you're quoted for IVF are only a starting point. There always seem to be extras somewhere along the line - extra scans, blood tests, drugs etc that usually add up to another £800 or so. 

In your shoes I would be try and raise the money for Las Vegas but only have the treatment on a donor egg cycle. Also with donor eggs you don't have to worry about working against the clock - so if it takes 9 months to raise the money then it's not a problem. 

Only my views on what I would do. Hope it helps somewhat


----------



## Violet66

winky - apologies. I was reading another poster's ticker and I see that you HAVEN'T cycled with donor eggs. Sorry about that. 

I know what a huge decision it is to make the switch to using donor eggs - it took me a year, so I completely understand how scrambled your brain must be at the moment from all the information it has received.


----------



## Sima

Winky

You do have a lot to take in.  I really do not envy you   

I can't comment on what Dr Sher but it does make sense to get your fibroid checked out and get a second opinion.  I have never heard of necrophages so I cannot comment on this but I do know when it comes to fibroids that cons like to take the least invasive (traumatic option) first and this is probably the reason that they try to work around it first rather than operate to get rid of it before IVF.  I really whish that someone had taken me to one side and told me to just take mine out a year ago.  Instead both of my clinics tried to work round this issue during my tx whilst at the same time forever commenting on the fact that I have a fibroid whenever I was scanned.  Why don't you try and see a fibroid expert who also does lots of IVF and arrange to have an aqua scan.  This will at least give you a clear picture of what is happening inside your uterus.  I know you are based in Scotland but you come to London regularly.  Mr Adrian Lower seems to have a good reputation and Violet has used him.  I will try to have a consultation with him in the next few weeks and hopefully he will do my op.    St Mary's in Paddington has a specialist dept which focuses just on fibroids.  This means they get to see a whole range of fibroids and might be able to give you good advice on the best treatment.  I have not used them but I heard one of their lead consultants speak at the WOW show last month.

To go or not to go to SIRM is a huge decision.  Take whatever price you have been given and double it.  I talk from my experience at Cornell.  At Cornell the IVF price they gave me was just for the basic IVF. 

Here are the costs for SIRM given to me a the beginning of the year 

CYCLE 1 
IVF FEE                         7,225.00
ANESTHESIA PROVIDER FEE	130.00
ANESTHESIA SUPPLY FEE 450.00
ICISI                                 2,500.00

You then have to include the cost of the drugs which can be £2 to 3k.  I've kept the receipts from my treatment so can give you more specific pricing if you wish but a 900 IU menopur pen is about $700 from memory.  Just remember most US people pay for their drugs with insurance so the insurance companies hike up the price and unfortunately there is no discount for us who pay by cash.  You also need to add in the price of your sperm and flights and accommodation.  NB I went out when the $ was 1.45 to the £ so double   

Even though my US cycle was not successful I do take comfort that I went to one of the world's top clinics and gave it a shot.  Both SIRM and Cornell use individualised protocols and they are used to treating difficult cases.  I just found it crushing when it didn't work out for me because I had invested a lot emotionally and financially into the cycle.  Cycling in the UK with a shared care programme might be an option or starting your treatment in the UK and then flying out when they move you to daily monitoring is another option.

Good luck.  

Sima


----------



## Felix42

I can't help with any advice Winky but wanted to send you a great big  for what you heard at your consult. That's a huge decision to make and lots to think about. Good to get everyone else's take on the advice you've been given and Sima's take on what the real financial costs are likely to be. 
Dr Sher is clearly very well respected but he can't be the one and only expert so maybe a clinic sympathetic to his approach here would be a more realistic approach. 

Sending you lots of  and  

Love to all other IVF-ers too. 

Love & hugs, Felix xx


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Winky   what a lot to take in - hope you manage to work out what's best for you ..... I know you will    
Jovi x


----------



## wizard

Oh goodness Winky what a very tough consultation you had. I can't offer any advice based on experience and I really feel for you being in such a difficult position. I hope some of the other posts from people with more experience are helpful, but also remember that this journey is as much about luck as it is science, and what I can do is wish you buckets of that.

Wizard x

P.S. All fertility specialists think their approach / theory / treatment is _the_ best. Of course they would, if they didn't we wouldn't be swayed to go with them. I'm not saying they are wrong, I'm just being a bit


----------



## Violet66

I agree Wizard - i think they're all like hairdressers who do a sharp intake of breath and ask 'who last did your hair for you?' ....except it's IVF!


----------



## winky77

As ever you are all wonderful, supportive and insightful...so thank you everyone who has posted your thoughts..   and all the PMs and texts  

As you might imagine I've been pretty preoccupied with processing what Dr Sher said interpersed with putting my professional hat on to get through my work commitments this week. 

I have made some decisions and still mulling over others.  Firstly, I've cancelled the fresh cycle I was going to do later this month at Reprofit.  Instead I am looking at going out there for my frostie instead with some intrallipids or ivig thrown in to give it a bit more of a fighting chance.  Waiting for Stepan to confirm this is doable what the protocol would be and meanwhile trying to work out how best to get Intrallipids/ivig here....well at least the first dose. I don't feel very optimistic and it feels a bit like I'm just ticking off a box but I can't just leave snowy there can I !? 

Second big decision is to move to a different clinic that has more immune understanding....SIRM Las Vegas is seriously scary financially but I've not completely ruled it out.....also looking at Serum, Athens, ARGC......not sure where else...in a learning curve of who or where the specialists are...and with an intention of having one last chuck everything at it go with my own eggs probably March/April which will give me time to do everything possible to prepare my body ....including getting the fibroid out if needs be.  Have also been to see a natural fertility clinic today to look at how I can do more with stuff like accupuncture and herbs and stuff. 

Some positive news in the midst of all this is that I heard today that I've won a tender I went for delivering some training in Q1 next year... it's in Nottingham which is maybe an omen I should be going to Care ?!?!?  Helps financially too. 

So that's kind of where my head is up to... still lots to process ! 

..Winky


----------



## Felix42

So pleased to hear you're going back for your frostie. I remember being desperate to go back for mine and said hello to them every time I went to Brno. Fingers crossed for him/her and the extra help of the ivig etc. 

Congrats on the bid. Sounds like an omen to me!  

Love & hugs, Felix xx


----------



## cocochanel1

Winky, glad you are ok and that you are making progress with your plan.

I have been up half the night reading Alan Beer's book properly for the first time. I take back what I said about Dr G and will book to get a full immune work up with him or Dr S (any preferences anyone for either Dr G or Dr S?). 

Immune issues can develop through the actual process of having a child!!!! Why haven't any of the doctors told me this? It can be a major cause of secondary infertility which I am now described as having after failing to conceive after a year. So for me it is something that at the very least needs ruling out. I'm not prepared to spend anymore money on treatment until I have ruled immune issues out and if issues come up then I know why treatment hasn't worked today. I also have some symptoms/history (eg. glandular fever and migraines) that would fit with having immune issues... 

How can any clinic operate today in isolation from considering immune issues? Alan Beers is utterly compelling in his logic and findings. What I also love about his book is that most of the clients case studied in it have been told exactly what I have been told 'beautiful embryo's', 'we can't understand why it hasn't worked', 'you have just been unlucky', 'it is because of your age'. Whereas Alan Beers says there is always a reason why it doesn't work.... we are not just unlucky which is exactly what I have thought all along. Grrrrrr to all the doctors 

I have more or less decided to change clinics because what is the point of being at a clinic who do not believe in immunology and who do not really believe my high LH theory? I think I need to be under a specialist who supports both immunology and unusual forms of PCOS like I have.....so I suspect it will be Nottingham Care or Lister for me. My clinic are good at bog standard but I'm not bog standard and should really have done something else after failed cycle number 2 if not 1 given all of my results so am a bit cross with myself for blinding trusting the 'experts'.

Like Winky I too have decided on a March/April cycle next year. Which gives me time to research properly and to plan next steps after receiving test results. I am not spending anymore time, money, energy on treatment until I am certain I stand a fighting chance next time. Whilst I know it will never be a certain outcome I'm not gambling anymore with unknowns.

Sorry for the 'me' post but just had to write about how I feel at the moment as I am so frustrated by inadequate/incompetent medical advice......Why on earth are we all having to research so hard when we are paying doctors an absolute fortune??

BP have you got your results back yet? Would you mind telling me which tests you had done with Dr G?

How is everyone else?

Coco xxx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Coco, Winky - big   to both. Lots to take in at the moment but sounds like you are both making good plans

As you know from DE thread, all this talk of immunes had me worried, so have had my ivig, not sure if I will fit in another dose before ET as donor was ready quicker than we thought and EC is tomorrow, but at least I've given it one shot

Coco - I would go for Dr G as think I recall Dottie seeing Dr S and his work up wasn't as thorough. Dr G is off to Egypt on Sunday for a week but back after that and it seems relatively easy to get an appt. The new secretary is very efficient....

Look forward to chatting more with you on Saturday (assuming I get more than 2 fertilised eggs, as if only 2 on Sat then I will have to have ET then and will miss the lunch - she's got 20 follies though so am optimistic we'll get to at least Monday transfer....)

Suitcase
x


----------



## cocochanel1

Suity, that's great. I see you can't sleep either  
I really hope this cycle works for you. I'll book to see Mr G again the week after next. How much have people paid for the various immune work ups? I am still a little unsure what the options are - he suggested TH1 Th2, Thrombophilia and NK Cell Assay for me. Is there anything else that I should have for 'belt and braces' approach? Is this what is known as 'Level 2'? 
How much does IVIG cost Suity? Is it blood or something else (sorry haven't got to that section in the book yet!)?

Coco xxx


----------



## cocochanel1

Ok now I'm confused. I'm just reading through the literature that Nottingham have sent me and this is an extract from an opinion paper on immunology (2003):

3. Immune treatments
Few randomised placebo-controlled studies have addressed the efficacy of immune interventions in the
treatment of reproductive failure. Meta-analyses have reported that (a) aspirin in combination with
heparin significantly increases the livebirth rate among those with antiphospholipid syndrome;10 (b) the
routine use of periimplantation glucocorticoids does not increase the live birth rate among those
undergoing IVF;11 (c) white cell immunisation does not increase the livebirth rate among those with
recurrent miscarriage;9 and (d) intravenous immunoglobulin (IVIG) does not improve the livebirth rate
among those with unexplained recurrent miscarriage.12 In addition to a short-term increased risk of
infection, there are no published data on the use of anti-tumour necrosis factor (TNF) agents such as
infliximab and etanercept to improve IVF outcome. Certain immune therapies can have significant
adverse effects. Anti-TNF-alpha agents are associated with the development of granulomatous disease,
lymphoma and demyelinating disease.
4. Opinion
With the exception of aPL testing among women with recurrent miscarriage, there is little evidence to
support any particular test or immunomodulatory treatment in the investigation and treatment of
couples with reproductive failure. These tests and treatments should be restricted to those entered into
formal research studies.

This opinion paper was produced on behalf of the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists by:
Dr Raj Rai MD MRCOG, Imperial College London
and peer reviewed by:
Dr A Moffett, Cambridge; Miss SM Quenby MRCOG, Liverpool; Mr RG Farquharson FRCOG, Liverpool;
Professor NS Macklon FRCOG, Utrecht, Netherlands; Professor A Chavez-Badiola, Mexico.
The Scientific Advisory Committee lead reviewers were: Professor A Balen FRCOG, Leeds; Professor S Thornton FRCOG,
Chairman; Professor R Anderson MRCOG, Vice Chairman.
The final version is the responsibility of the Scientific Advisory Committee of the RCOG.
SAC Opinion




Why are Nottingham actively sending this paper out when they support immunology?

Any thoughts on the above extract?


Can doctors not agree on anything?
xxx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Coco - am in Helsinki, so nearly 8.30am here!

Off to a meeting now, will read/digest your posts and reply later....but just briefly, ivig is a blood product yes, and it costs a huge £1300 per dose....

More later,
Suitcase
x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

coco I would prob go to Dr G, I went to Mr S and he first diagnosed me with NK cells, and this was also repeated and confirmed by ARGC but he is a miscarriage expert (this was my problem when I went to him) and doesn't do IVF whereas Dr G does. Ms S was also about £1500 for testing and pre and post appt in 2007 so probably more expensive than Dr G and I am not sure about his stance in intralipids.  

The St Mary's crew - Prof Regan and Dr Rai are not immune fans, nor advocates for aspirin all the time as they told my FF that it can also cause mc (her problem x4) after her tx at Notts CARE. I guess CARE are being balanced in offering information from opposing views. There is so much to plough through though!!

L x


----------



## Fraggles

Hi

Coco, Thanks for keeping us updated. I think me posts are good, I personally like other FF'ers sharing and updating what is going on. Sometimes it is difficult to share with people not going through this and you know for me it normalises things and reading someone else's journey makes you realise that you are not alone and problems or thoughts that you are having are often shared with others too. Other people are or have been through it and can help where they can and try and clear some of the confusion. So no need for apologies for me posts! And you have a lot to think about at the moment. It's not like we have a partner to chat to so I think it's like sanity maintenance! Said in the tone of a caring older sister rather than a bossy matron.

Suity, Is Helsinki where you are having treatment? Good luck with ET, finger crossed and am thinking of you.

Coco/Winky know you both have a lots to think about but as a newbie cannot really help but am thinking of you and sending you lots of love. Good luck.

Fraggles x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Fraggles - no, having tx in London, just in Helsinki for work (is head office for my company - well known mobile phone maker!)
Have to come here at lot - makes it tricky to juggle tx at times  

Suitcase
x


----------



## winky77

Hi girls....

I don't know where this week has gone....I'm not sleeping well....V V unusual for me so real clue I'm stressed out with all of this.

Have a lighter work today tomorrow so hoping I can do some more research.....agree with Coco that it gets so confusing with all the conflicting opinions .....I feel like I'm back at uni doing one of those debating polarised viewpoints assignments...that I always hated! 

Well I had some bloods done last week .....mostly went to get my thyroid function tested again and thyroid antibodies again....haven't got the latter back yet but TSH is 2.33 (lowest it's been since I first started taking thryoxin) but have still been reading that it should be under 2 for implantation   .  When I saw the nurse I got her to do FSH etc as well .....bloody stupid tho as it wasn't day 3 so now trying to work out if any of is valid.  FSH was 8.6 (up from 6.7 a year ago) but still not bad for my age.  LH was 11 tho (2.6 last time) and Oestradiol 797 (189 last time) !!! Not panicking yet cos it may just be the time I've done it and will get them done......trying to check that out but if anyone has an easy answer?!?!  I went into my GPs to get photocopies of results ......receptionist wouldnt hand them over until a doc had checked them .....came back 2 secs later saying oh yes all NORMAL .....now they didn't know I hadnt done them on day 3 so how the heck can they say normal with those figures?!??!?  Also learnt today (reading The Thyroid Hormone Breakthrough) that thryoxin should be taken on an empty stomach and at least 2 hours before any other vitamins as some can effect it's absorbtion......and of course I've been taking it all year in the same swallow as a handful of vitamins......another why did no one tell me this moment ! 

Still waiting for Stepan to come back to me on the FET decision......have kept getting responses from him that only answer one point out of several I've raised!  Will only means I then have to email again! 

ok....whinge over....

..Winky Whinger...


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Winky I think that the results may be skewed for the day you have taken them esp with the LH.  

Maybe ask Maz the FF pharmacist about the thyroid tablets and vits as well.
A lady at work also said she is entitled to free prescritptions (England)as she need thyroxine- have you heard of this or looked into it- might help is fetility stuff could go on!

L x


----------



## winky77

Hi JJ....

yep tried that one....I have an NHS prescription exemption certificate so dont pay for meds but GP won't prescribe fertility stuff so no benefit! 

..Winky


----------



## cocochanel1

Winky am in a rush so more later but fsh, lh, oestradiol etc all have to be day 2 or 3 otherwise results not valid for what you are looking for as vary through month xxx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Winky - can't help with bloods I'm afraid...haven't had mine done for ages and now less relevant as DE cycle...

Coco - re your earlier questions. Pretty sure that TH1 Th2, Thrombophilia and NK Cell Assay is what I had done and from memory was around £900 or so. Think this is level 2 but not the full level 2. You can also get MTHFR (or something a bit like that) and some other ones done....but TH1/2 and NK cells seem to be the big ones. 
You have to have the bloods done Mon-Weds, they send them off to Chicago and then you get the results back. The blood place is just round the corner from Dr G, but def aim for an appt earlier in the week or you would have to go back the following week to do the bloods bit (I made the mistake of having my appt with Dr G on a Thur and then couldn't actually get the bloods done whilst I was there)

Re the paper from Nottingham...I think the fact of the matter is that there simply isn't consistent and significant data on this topic. So although Dr Beer has done great work and got good results, the numbers of people it is based on are still relatively small. As with any area of science, it's continually developing and changing, and if only small scale studies with a couple of 100 women are done in one or two countries, then it is impossible for the scientific community to take this as 'evidence'
I guess all we can do is go with our gut instincts to some extent. If a particular doctor/scientist seems to be having good success with a particular approach, then even if this is not statistically proven over time, it would suggest that giving it a go is a good idea - especially if all other options have been exhausted. 

I fully admit that I have had ivig not because I truly believe it will make a difference (because I just can't know that) but because if I didn't have it, whilst knowing I have high NK cells, if I got a negative I would be full of regret and blame myself for not having it. So this way, if I do get a negative, at least I can be sure that it's not because of anything I haven't (or have) done if you see what I mean

All of this is very confusing and difficult to make sense of. And I still feel that there is an element of chance/fate involved - that at least to some extent this cannot be controlled. So my approach is to control the parts I can to the best of my ability - ie by doing all the right things (diet, exercise, vitamins, and now ivig too) and then just try to let go of the rest 
Easier said than done mind you  

See you Saturday, look forward to chatting then
Suitcase
x


----------



## GIAToo

Hello ladies,

I'm reading loads of posts, but obviously being a newbie can't contribute much at this point.  I find a lot of things very complicated and can see why people are questioning why we need to learn so much of this stuff ourselves when it costs so much to do all of this!

Anyway, just a wee update.  Spoke to my GP today and she said she would still pay for my drugs even if I didn't go to her recommended clinic (Nuffield Woking).  When I told her I was thinking about the Lister or possibly Chelsea and Westminster, she agreed they were both highly respected with good success rates.  The other brilliant thing is that she said she would fund my drugs for THREE cycles!!!  

Cried a lot yesterday as I didn't get the job I was hoping to get and had to go and sign on today for the first time in my life.  Still going to take all the necessary first steps (tests etc) to come up with a treatment plan, but will need to get a job before I start any treatment.  

Hope you are all well and good luck for anyone going through any current treatments 

Take care of yourselves  
GIA xxx


----------



## bluprimrose

hello gia

so sorry on the job front, but brilliant news re the drugs - that will save you a packet.  my gp said he couldn't give me mine on the nhs.

good luck finding your next job.

sending hugs

bpxx


----------



## Fraggles

Hi

Gia big hugs - I know how you feel about going to sign on, the first time I used all my saving (doh!) to avoid having to sign on (gee if only I had signed on the first time my savings that I had would have paid for lots of treatments) but the second time I had too as my saving had all been spent on living expenses whilst unemployed. You have done the best thing.

It's tough and can sympathise, I ended up thinking if I can't beat them join them and now work in public sector - not my usual line of work but flexible hours, flexi time, term time working etc which is working a treat with having treatment and if I am fortunate and get a BFP. It's only a fixed term contract till 2011 but it is helping in the short term. Some of the people who I am working with were solicitors and investment bankers so times have changed. Didn't mean that to be a me post there but to show whilst some times a situation sucks it does turn out for the better.

Not sure where you are having treatment but I went to Serum athens and even with the flights and accommodation included, it still worked out significantly less than the UK price - I had IUI.

But perhaps what has happened may turn out to be a blessing in disguise even though it may be stressful. Now you have the time to focus on your treatment and take time out. I truly believe the right job for you will turn up at the right time.

Lots of love and hugs.
Fraggles xx


----------



## cocochanel1

GIA, how fab re your GP. I asked mine and she said she couldn't fund the drugs on NHS as I don't qualify for NHS treatment. Does anyone else know what it is we have to say to GPs to get them to fund the drugs? It is almost worth moving GPs in order to get the drugs funded?

Suity, thanks for your thoughts - I agree.

Coco xx


----------



## GIAToo

Thanks everyone, I know my journey is only just starting  but it's so nice to talk too those in the same situation.

Coco - I know I'm very lucky with my GP, it's because she went through IVF and spent £35k. It took her 15 years to conceive. At the Fertility Show they talked about single women lobbying the same way that lesbians have been doing to get NHS funding and there has already been a few cases taken up by lesbians, but there needs to be more to change things. And when you're going through this (as one lady pointed out) who has the energy to lobby. But I guess it is the only way.

However I don't know if anyone saw a programme on TV the other night called The Great Sperm Crisis? It was made by a comedian, so it was quite "jokey", but he did have a serious point to make and he tried to speak to Labour MPs, but none of them were interested. Actually I have just looked up the programme and it was made in 2007!!! So some of you probably saw it then!
http://library.digiguide.com/lib/uk-tv-highlight/The+Great+Sperm+Crisis-478

Sorry - didn't mean to get all political! Ironic really as apparently the reason I didn't get that job was because I said I "didn't do office politics" lol

GIA xx


----------



## RichmondLass

My doc said no as all their funding for fertility treatment was channelled through Queen Mary's.  It only cost me about £300 in Spain in the end, so a drop in the ocean comapared to the cost of treatment.

However, one of you ladies did point out that the actual drugs - oestrogen and progesterone -  can also be prescribed for other uses so not technically fertility treatment .  so if you are desperate for funding could be a tack to take.
RLx


----------



## Damelottie

Sadly I suppose, it isn't down to one GP as to whether they fund the drugs or not - its down to the PCT that they work for. And each PCT can be different so it isn't even a national policy. Very little is when it comes to treatments and drugs. So it'll make no difference what you say to your GP unless you live in an area where funding possible, or the GP is prepared to do an appeal on your behalf.


----------



## Damelottie

Oh RL - I had missed your BOY news


----------



## cocochanel1

LL, what is PCT? 

RL, a boy yipee - soooooooooo much fun. xxx


----------



## Fraggles

RL, congratulations on your news.

LL, I think PCT is primary care trust.


----------



## GIAToo

My GP practice is paying for my drugs, not the PCT (which is Primary Care Trust - who wouldn't fund me at all simply because I am single, let alone over 39!), so it is still worth asking GPs (if you haven't already), although I'm guessing I've just been extremely lucky.

Booked my first appointment with The Lister today and they said they normally do an ultrasound scan on the first appointment, I said yes, but is that standard practice? I think I know what it entails, but could someone confirm for me please    Thankyou.....

Very excited about your scan news RL!!  

GIA xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

PCT is primary care trust, they provide primary and community services for local people eg fund GP's to provide services for the local community and it also commissions (plans and purchases)  acute Trusts (hospitals) services (like IVF, operations) and set the criteria that they fund to, the amount of activity they want done and the targets/quality standards by which they want things done to.  It is getting changed slightly with provider and commissioning arms.


The PCT's control the stirngs for healthcare !

Lx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

going it alone you have been very lucky with your GP, drugs can cost thousands per cycle, mine said no, but you GP must be happy to fund from the practice itself!

An ultrasound is usually done and is transvaginal, doesn't hurt really and you'll have hundreds by the end of it!
Good luck with the Lister
Lx


----------



## Damelottie

Are you in England GIA? Because GP's get their funding from the area PCT's in every PCT I've ever worked for. The funding couldn't come from anywhere else really. They are heavily regulated as to what drugs/treatments they can supply. Its lovely if your individual GP could just issue them but I fear thats an absolute minority. It just concerns me that people might think their individual GP isn't being supportive when they really don't have any choice.

Mistylake would know more.

Love

LL x


----------



## Damelottie

Oops posts crossed - Hello JJ1


----------



## blueytoo

GIA - is your GP the managing partner? If not then you may find she will have to withdraw her offer to fund the drugs. Also I think as others have pointed out it is the PCT that control who gets funding for the stims etc and I don't think a GP can decide to fund them. 

My GP will fund all the support drugs and anti-miscarriage drugs so I can get IViG/intralipids/clexane/cyclogest/asprin/steroids prescribed but not the stims etc. She is the managing partner so could make the decision herself but only because they are not IVF drugs.

Best to make doubly sure if I were you, rather than banking on it all being funded and then finding it isn't.

Claire xx


----------



## GIAToo

Hi  LL and Claire

My GP is in a partnership and she is a partner.  GP practices get some funding from the PCT but not all.  They run as independent contractors to the NHS.

Her exact words were "get the clinic to tell you what you need, bring it to me and I will write out the prescription for you lovey" (she calls everyone lovey or my love).  When I called her today I said "I assume you will only pay for the drugs for one cycle" to which she replied she would fund 3 cycles.  So I am sure I have not got it wrong.  She also explained to me what the drugs would do (down regulation etc).

GIA xx


----------



## Damelottie

Tis great news - will save you a small fortune


----------



## cocochanel1

GIA, I think I am going to move to your GP!  
xxx


----------



## blueytoo

Coco - hun, how confusing this must all be for you, so many different opinions. I guess I would suggest that as nothing else has worked at the current clinic that it has to be worth trying Dr Sher's way. Does Prof Macklon actually do IVF? If so maybe find out his success rates and compare with Dr Sher. That might help you make a decision. 
  because i know it's hard with so many different opinions being thrown at you. Having some facts and stats to back up his claims might help.

Claire xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Coco it is so hard and I think at the end of the day you have to decide for yourself as they will all have different thoughts and opinions. I hope that the Lister are helpful and shed some more light on things
L x


----------



## cocochanel1

Rose poor you   hope the throat gets better soon.

No further thoughts - other than it is jolly confusing with the experts all giving different advice! I'm inclined to believe Dr Sher. 

Exciting news from me -  the blood I fedex'd to America from my house on Monday has arrived for the target cell test that Dr Sher requested - hooray I feel I have achieved something albeit quite silly to be excited about such a thing! It just felt pretty weird persuading my local hospital to take blood under the radar and calling fedex to collect it from my house!!
I am going to my first appointment at The Lister tomorrow. Have decided to up the anti. 
Lou, thanks v much  for your pm - I will reply. 

Hi to everyone else xxx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Coco so pleased that your international blood sample arrived, it sounded like a millitary operation.  How long do the results take? Really hope that the Lister appt goes well.

Rose- hope that you are feeling better, there a fair bit of laryngitis and lost voices about at work.

x


----------



## Mifi

Hi Ladies

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Mistimop has sadly m/c in the early hours of this morning   

Our thoughts are with her at this terrible time    

I will update you all later as im at work at the moment and cant really post  

Love FM xX


----------



## Violet66

Misti - so sorry pet


----------



## bluprimrose

so sorry misti - how very sad, am sending you love and hugs and you know we're all here for you if you need us.

coco - that's fantastic news re your bloods - looking forward to hearing the results and hope they bring with them some answers.  and good luck at the lister too!  how great to have a plan of action.

rose, i hope you're feeling better and your voice is coming back.

sorry for lack of personals - when i'm on my phone i can't see everyone's posts as i'm writing so can't remember everything i've read!

sorry too that i've been a bit absent recently, have had a lot to think about.

sending love and hugs to all.

bpxx


----------



## cocochanel1

Misti, I'm gutted for you. So sorry.

Rose, hope you are feeling better - great that your Consultant is so supportive.

BP, I'll email tonight with contact details. I've been in London the last two days working and attending appointments. Sorry for the delay.

JJ, yep - military operation it was! RIA lab called me today and I'll have the result on Monday - it's a big result for me - either it will show I've developed immune issues following the birth of my son or it will show negative. 

I'm pleased to report I had a good appointment at The Lister today. I'm 99% sure I'll cycle with The Lister in January.

Consultant almost entirely in agreement with Dr Sher. Was equally shocked by zero implantation to date and confirmed my thinking and research. Agreed I've been on entirely the wrong protocol!!! Came away feeling chuffed that finally I am making some progress. Of course there is no certainty and it could take a few cycles BUT I at least now feel I am in with a fighting chance with someone who can work at the complex/atypical level rather than at the typical. 

How is everyone else? JJ1 what are your plans?

Coco xxx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Fab news Coco - glad you were impressed with the Lister and feel you can work with them...

Rose - sorry you're not feeling so good at the moment. I've got a stinking cold too, so I can sympathise. Hope all goes well with your upcoming cycle despite the little mishap with the pill and your FSH!

Suitcase
x


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Rose     for your treatment hun  

Coco glad you had a good consultation!  All the hard work will be worth it!

Jovi x


----------



## blueytoo

Coco - I knew you'd love Jaya and the Lister, they both rock! Am so glad that you have a way forward at last  

Rose - am sorry you are feeling so poorly   

Misti - I'm completely gutted to hear your sad news hun     

Hi to everyone else. I'm won't be around as much over the next day or two as my main website was hacked and destroyed yesterday so everything is a mad panic at the moment, trying to make sure my business doesn't go down the pan. My web host is being an angel and trying everything in his power to help me out and get me a new website up and running asap, and he's doing it all for free which is just so, so lovely.

I'm totally devastated though as this could have very serious consequences. Why do people do things like this? My only source of income has just been wiped. Some faith in human nature has been restored though by the kindness of strangers to try and help me, there are some decent people out there after all.

Claire xx


----------



## cocochanel1

Feisty, rock they do indeed. I've emailed you - let me know if I can help. xx


----------



## Betty-Boo

Feisty hope your website is up and running again soon.


----------



## langtang

Hi Everyone,

Excellent news Coco - hope the results are useful on Monday (as Lou said, difficult to know what you want to hear)

Rose - hope you are feeling better.

BP - hope all is well with you.  Sounded like you weren't too happy from your post below.  Have I missed something?

I am hoping for some advice - I had my egg collection yesterday and suffered very badly from the sedation (which was predictable as I've always suffered with anaesthetics in the past) and was still retching on the way home when I was finally allowed to leave 4 hours later!  Anyway, just after the procedure when I felt at my worst the embryologist came in to tell me that the sperm from my donor had a high percentage of not very good sperm and that they recommended using ICSI instead.  They didn't mention anything about cost but I am guessing that they will charge a lot extra for that.  Unfortunately my memory is very hazy - down to not really remembering the converstation - but my dad was there and neither he nor I could understand much of what the embryologist was saying anyway because he had a thick foreign accent.  
Later on when I was feeling a bit better I heard two girls being told the same thing about their sperm donor and they were much better about questioning the clinic who said that they could unfreeze a second sample to see if it was any better but that they would recommend the ICSI as having a higher success rate anyway.  In the end they agreed to ICSI too.  
I have just heard from the clinic this morning that out of 8 eggs collected only 5 were mature, but all of those 5 fertilised, so I guess that is good - but I want to know whether anyone else has had the same thing happen to them and whether I should have done something different or whether I need to ask specific questions when I go in for egg transfer on Monday - just in case the same thing happens another time...
Also - if only 5 of the 8 were mature should I have waited longer before egg collection?
Sorry for such a long post!

Clare


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Hi Clare, 

Sorry to hear you had a tough time with the sedation  

Very common for clinics to recommend ICSI. Can't remember who you are with, but think it might be LWC? I have had 4 cycles there and have ended up having ICSI on all of them - costs about £700 I think  
It makes me a bit cross when the sperm (which we are also paying a good amount for) is not good enough....and I have heard that if you import sperm from US/Denmark you tend to get better samples and don't need ICSI (but then you have to pay more to import so you can't win!)

But it's not unusual that's for sure...and in these cases I think you can only take the advice of the embryologist since they are the experts.

re 5 being mature - that sounds like a good proportion. It's difficult to time egg collection because if you had waited for the other 3 to be mature, you may have lost others to being over mature. So there are always going to be some which aren't ready...but great news that all of them fertilised and 5 is a good number, hope they continue to develop well and good luck for transfer on Monday - you're exactly a week behind me  
Suitcase
x


----------



## Betty-Boo

Hi honey - the timing of collection is an art - it could've been that the clinic had left it just a day and you'd have 3 out 8 mature eggies... Or 6 out 8 mature eggies... there is just no telling honey.  As for ICSI - yes it does cost more - but personally and these are just my thoughts - I'd pay the extra for icsi ... at least this way you know that the sperm is injected into your eggs and not just swimming round trying its best.  
All the best honey and hope you've recovered from the sedation x x x  Wishing you all the luck in the world x x


----------



## Sima

Hi Clare

Congratulations on getting through egg collection.  Sorry that you felt rough afterwards though.  As the other ladies said ICIS does cost more than straight IVF but at least that way you ensure that the sperm has reached the egg.  I have also been told that many clinics do ICIS as standard when they are dealing with frozen donor sperm since the motility of the sperm is often affected by freezing.    5 out of 8 fertislisation is a good result.  I have often heard that approx 2/3rds of the eggs produced are mature and should go on to fertilise so please do not worry that you did not get 100%.

Good luck over the next few days.  You will be PUPO soon.

Sima x


----------



## indekiwi

Clare, I would only reiterate what everyone else has posted - ICSI is the norm for ladies posting on the singles board, not the exception; it's relatively rare for all eggs harvested to be mature; fertilisation rates are often 60 - 70%; and finally, in the context of your initial test results, you've done so well!!!  If you still want or need some reassurance, dash down the hill and come and have coffee with me.  Besides, I still owe you a tenner.... 

A-Mx


----------



## bluprimrose

hello all, just a real quickie from me as am late.  

from my understanding, the reason us singlies have icsi is because of the frozen sperm - it doesn't all wake up as well as it should so they choose the very best to inject into the eggs so that a non-perfect one doesn't get there first.

am ok thank you, just have so many decisions to make regarding tx as had so much conflicting advice.  was sure i'd made up my mind which extra drugs and doses to take and when - and am now confused again.  the main sticking point is clexane - i can't decide whether to take 20mg as i have before and have been advised by 3 consultants - or totake 40 and 60mg (!!!) as have been advised by another.  eeek! (too much advice gives you a big headache!!)

love and hugs to you all.  

bpxx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

langtang- are you at LWC? as they have a bit of history of surprising the ICSI thing on pts during the procedure- this happened to my friend after her EC and because they had not discussd it when she was fully competent and not under the effects of anaestetic (whihc in itself if unethical to ask for you to make decisions a in some of the pt info leaflets it tells you not to sign important doc or make decisions for 48 hrs) my friend then challenge the additional charge of ICSI and LWC then agreed to half the cost as they had not fully consented with her in her appts.  If this is a common (as 3 out of 3 of you!!) as a back up plan then it should be discussed when you sign your consent forms.
Also why is donor sperm  needing icsi it should be the top of the crop!!!


Re immature eggs on my second cycle at the Bridge all my eggs were collected and were immature, I moved clinics and but you can expected one or two smaller ones from a normal EC. But you could ask your clinic.  I they waited for them to catch up your 5 bigger ones might have gone.  Over 50% fertilsation is good.

Re Anaethetic I am terrified of getting sick after anaethetic, I inform the anaesthetist and take a copy of an aneathetic sheet  where I had no adverse reactions and ask for 8 mg of iv ondansetron (an anti sickness) and bring it along in vials and ask for it on induction.  A but anal I know but I have never been sick or felt nauseous.

Good luck I hope the embryos continue to do well
lx

Some clinics abroad to ICSI routinely but you are informed and pay for it when you are not sedated!


----------



## Chowy

Langtang

When I had my IVF that worked I was told afterwards that the sperm had thawed and was not wonderfull so they used ICISI, I paniced at this but it was fine.  The clinic said if stocks were like they were some years ago they would simply thaw another batch but they dpo not have this privelige currenlty so choose to use the ICSI method of fertilisation.  I was not charged any extra for this but I was also not consulted before hand either, I was only advised when I called the following day to see how many had fertilised.

Best of luck at transfer

Chowy and Pups.


----------



## langtang

Hello everyone,

Thank you for all your messages - that makes me feel much better.  I really didn't want to have made the wrong decision because I hadn't done my homework properly.  I am thrilled to have 5 fertilised eggs (as A-M says, with my AMH results that IS good) but there are so many other emotions going around that I'm not sure whether I'm coming or going!  As far as ICSI is concerned then as long as it's the right thing to do I'm happy to pay the extra.  I may suggest that they are more up front with people in the future though.  Feeling much better today so far - still felt really nauseous all day yesterday.  Am about to go and make Christmas puddings!

Hi BP - yes - it's very difficult when you get conflicting advice.  Good luck with making your decision.  

Clare


----------



## blueytoo

Hi everyone

No exciting news from me except I have had to cancel my Dr Gorgy appointment for tomorrow again due to the massive business crisis that was my website being hacked and destroyed! Am going to go and ring for another appointment now but looking at the week beginning 7th December so really tight to get results back and drugs etc sorted in time. Must go and cancel hotel too and just lucky I hadn't bought train tickets. Ugh  

Had the Swine Flu vax on Saturday morning and my arm is the size of a house and really painful, haven't been able to sleep for two nights. The doctor only went and gave me the seasonal flu jab as well in the other arm so I was a moaning mini on Saturday as both arms hurting! 

Claire xx


----------



## Chowy

OMG Im having my swine flu vax on Wed and the other one too.

YUK

Chowy


----------



## blueytoo

Be prepared Chowy, my Swine Flu arm is still killing me and still the size of a house and it makes your shoulders and back sore too. My DS hugged me earlier and I screamed!

And I've got to have the Swine Flu one done again in 3 weeks. Bloody steroids/IViG/intralipids.


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Feisty - did you have the swine flu jab because you are on steroids/ivig etc? I've had ivig/intrallipids recently and am on 25mg pred at the moment. Should I pushing for the jab? I wasn't going to bother on account of being generally fit and healthy and assuming if I got swine flu, I'd just weather it
Obviously if this cycle works and I find out I'm pg I would reconsider that, but if it doesn't work, I didn't really see the point

My GP is totally unsympathetic to IVF etc and will never have heard of ivig etc so not sure how I would go about getting the jab anyway...should I ask LWC do you think?

Suitcase
x


----------



## blueytoo

Suity - yes I've had the vax because I am already on steroids and obviously having the IViG/intralipids will suppress my immune system even more. The dose of preds is considered very high by the general medical and dental professions as well which I didn't really realise until last week when the dentist was freaking out about it because I need some treatment under IV sedation next month. She said she is really worried about doing it because of the steroids but it can't be done once IVF has started so has to be done now.

In the USA the IVF clinics have routinely been giving the Swine Flu vax to all their patients before they start a cycle as they are saying it is better to get the protection before hand than risk getting Swine Flu when you get a BFP or further in pregnancy.

My GP is fantastic and although she is a fairly anti-medicine doctor she said that in my case with the steroids and my previous history of having had flu twice and it making me very seriously ill both times, she strongly recommended it for me. This Swine Flu seems to focus on the lungs and I've had lots of chest infections in the past. There has been quite a few healthy pregnant women getting it and dying or dying soon after giving birth too. She also said that if the IVF works this time and I get pregnant then getting the Swine Flu and being that ill would endanger the pregnancy.

Of course as soon as you get pregnant your body has to suppress your immune system naturally to allow you stay pregnant whether or not you have immune issues so the steroids etc just add to that natural state which is why pregnant women are at a higher risk from Swine Flu.

It was a hard decision but I trust my doctor and as she pointed out it is no more untested than the seasonal jab is every year, its the same jab just with the H1N1 in it rather than whatever the season strain is. Plus as a single parent I obviously have to think of DS and I just decided overall that the risk of being damaged by the vax was a lower risk than getting Swine Flu and getting seriously ill again or dying.

It is difficult though, I've been thinking and researching about it since they announced the pandemic in the summer.

ETA that the jab isn't going to be available privately at all so you'd have to get it from your GP. I would just ring up and say you need an appointment for the Swine Flu vaccine as you are immune-suppressed due to taking steroids. It's not likely that the receptionist will argue with you. I still had to explain that bit to our receptionist when I rang up as the GP hadn't made a note or anything on my notes about having it. 

I did wonder about trying to get it done at Reprofit for DS as they are only vax'ing under 5's here and seeing as the 5-14 year olds are the second biggest group ending up seriously ill with it in intensive care it makes me want to give it to him even though he is super healthy.


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Lou  that your EC goes well
L x


----------



## bluprimrose

hello all!

just a quickie.  

half half read the posts re swine flu jab (as trying to go to bed!) - i had it a couple of weeks ago and the seasonal flu one.  my gp gave it to me as i said i was going to be on steriods and hoping to be pg soon(!) so i'd rather have it now than get swine flu because of steroids or when pg!  at that point i hadn't started down-regging.

i don't know if i did the right thing or not, but he let me have them.

lol

bpxx    

p.s. i'm ok thank you langtang - hope you are too.


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Lots of luck Lou       xxxxxx


----------



## Felix42

Good luck Lou and everyone else about to or in midst of treatment.    

Very interested to read everyone's thoughts re swine flu injection.  I'm due to have it next Tuesday.  Bit nervous but GP said she'd have it if she was me and consultant at maternity hospital is also recommending it.

Love and hugs, Felix xx


----------



## Fraggles

Felix

Thanks for message on iui - guess only about 36 hours to go until wed morning and OTD.

Your scan pic is incredible thanks for sharing.

F x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

lou how did things go today XX


----------



## bingbong

hope all went well Lou  

Bingbong x


----------



## Roo67

Fab news Lou, great number of eggs,

Sorry that you are having side effects from drugs though - it'll be worth it when you get your BFP

 

r x


----------



## Chowy

Hi Lou

Well done on the EC front and the side effects will go just keep looking at E and smiling because he will have a sibling soon.  

Thinking of you.

Chowy and pup


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Great news Lou  

Hope you feel better soon, all the best for ET,  
Suitcase
x


----------



## cocochanel1

Lou, fantastic, well done. So have they frozen two on day 1? What drug have they given you to stave off OHSS? Keeping everything crossed for you, it sounds really promising xxx


----------



## cocochanel1

Lou -    for the drug effects - I feel for you. Hope it gets better soon xxx


----------



## Sima

Lou - well done on getting through EC.  That's a good number of eggs you have there.  I hope you feel better soon.


----------



## Lou-Ann

Lou, well done on EC and your number of embies. Sorry that the drugs are making you feel awful, hope that you start to feel better soon 
Good luck for ET.

Lou-Ann x


----------



## Betty-Boo

Lou fab honey ref the embies!!          for this cycle honey and take it easy - thinking of you x x


----------



## Damelottie

Well done Lou - was thinking of you xxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## bluprimrose

well done lou!  fantastic news - but hope the drugs' side effects wear off.  
good luck for et.

bpxx


----------



## Betty-Boo

BP - how did your scan go today??  Everything on track?       for this cycle honey x x


----------



## kylecat

Take care Lou - hope you soon get some news of some fab embies!

Thinking of you

Kylecat xxx


----------



## bluprimrose

hello mini!

hope you're well.

it was good thank you - i'm ready to go!  i could have started stims today but am starting tomorrow as i usually have ec 12 days from start of stims and that would have been a sunday, so just in case i'm leaving it 'til tomorrow.  i don't want my eggs to come out too early or too late!

all a bit scary - it's hard to be positive after so many failed tx's - but i am trying very hard.  and i haven't 100% decided on my dose of clexane yet, but i'll have to decide soon!  it's all a bit surreal to be honest, i can't believe i'm here again.  i just pray i'll have eggs and then embies to put back.

hope everyone else is well.

bpxx


----------



## Betty-Boo

Hi honey - what does have the clinic said to take?  I was on 40iu although when I had clots was on hellof a lot more (painful when in large doses).  All the best honey and have everything crossed!! x x


----------



## GIAToo

I'm finding it really difficult to keep up, mostly 'cos I'm still getting to grips with the terminology  

Lou - good news on the number of eggs!   

BP - Glad you can start stims tomorrow,    whatever that means  - I presume "stims" is what stimulates your ovaries into action??  

Oh - can't see any more posts below, but hope everyone else is ok today.   to all

GIA xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Lou fantastic news about your embryos. I remember you suffering with OHSS on previous cycles, and your long walk to ET !!  Really hope that this brings you a sibling for E, are you going to have SET or 2 back??

BP- I had 40 of cleaxne on my last 3 cycles, one clinic made me do 20 morning and night, the other 40 once a day.

Best of luck
L x


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Well done Lou    Hope those pesky side effects are short lived and you're feeling better soon     for the phone call bringing good news  

BP great to see you starting    Lots of luck for this cycle  

Jovi x


----------



## bluprimrose

Thank you so much everyone.

Have been told (by one of many consultants i'm speaking to!) to take 40mg before ec and 60(!!!)mg after (because of blood test results).  At the moment i am worried about the 60 and if i do take 60 don't know whether to do it in one whack or 40 a.m. and 20 p.m.  Decisions decisions...  Usually i take 20mg and the bruises are horrendous!

Hugs to you all.

bpxx


----------



## Betty-Boo

Honey - best check with him tbh ... I know it doesn't stay in the body for long.  I was on 100iu when actively clotting - not nice!  
I was on 40 last tx - not sure what I'll be on for the next one as will (hopefully) be seeing the haematologist who will confirm what I need to take.  So looking forward to finally being pregnant but not the 9 months of clexane - and 6 weeks after the birth ... think that may do head in!! (We'll cross that bridge when it happens ...     ) 
Roo came out with some fab advice - warm the injection up under armpit before injecting - does take away some of the sting.  I've used ice packs in the past and arnica gel to bring out the bruising quicker...
You will be fine honey x x


----------



## going it alone

Fantastic news Lou, well done you. BEst of luck for ET.     Hope the drug side effects wear off soon.

Love to all
Sam x


----------



## bluprimrose

Thanks mini .  You were on 100!!  Is that mg??  (20mg = 2.000ui).  Blimey!  Did you have to have regular blood tests to check you weren't over-responding and to check your blood count?

bpxx


----------



## bingbong

Lou that's wonderful news! I didn't know you were doing a diary, I look forward to reading it   I hope that you start to feel better soon  

BP great news that you are starting     that this is the one for you.

Bingbong x


----------



## Felix42

Lou, fantastic news re EC. Congratulations!  

Lots of  to everyone else doing IVF at the moment. 

Love & hugs, Felix xx


----------



## bluprimrose

Thank you  

bpxx


----------



## blueytoo

Lou - Wow, how fantastic to get 10 embryos! Good luck for ET and I hope the OHSS stays under control. I had it on one cycle and it wasn't pleasant but thankfully eased off within a few days. I hope the drug side effects ease off too.

Claire xx


----------



## langtang

Hi BP - great news that you're starting.  Yes - I'm doing well - have just posted on the 2ww thread.

Hi Lou - great news about the eggs.  Irritating about the side effects, I hope they ease off a bit soon.

Clare


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Claire hope the website/business is back up and running and you can put it all behind you
Jovi x


----------



## cocochanel1

Hi Lou how are you today?

BP how are you?

How is everyone else?

I've had my saline uterine sonography today. All 'perfect'! Awaiting my immune test results from Dr Sher any day. Had another conversation with my Consultant who says she really thinks I've just been 'unlucky' and that they are blaming the sperm as my results are consistently so good. My clinic have written me an 8 page document covering all treatment to date which is v useful.

When I've seen Professor Franks and Dr Sher again I will have to make a decision between protocols and clinics - Wessex or The Lister. Wessex are open to discussions re protocols and may even be prepared to follow same as The Lister so then it comes down to whether the lab would make a measurable difference?? Wessex is certainly a hell of a lot closer.

Had a very frustrating time trying to get something/anything covered by my insurance company who are point blank refusing.  
Love to all. Coco xxx


----------



## bluprimrose

Hello all

Hope you are all well.

Am ok thank you coco (will call/email soon as poss - sorry, work been mad).

Started stims today and had a call from consultant haematologist who was brilliant and explained everything so clearly, so i feel much better about the high clexane dose i've been prescribed.

Sounds like you're making progress too coco.

Lol to you all

bpxx


----------



## winky77

Hi everyone....

just popping in to say hi and big congrats on everyone moving forward on this thread.....Lou great numbers!  ....Langtang.    Coco...  for test results....BP... for starting stims......

am beginning to think I am some kind of android.....all this talk of clexane bruising.....I've been doing 40mg for last 5 days or so....no stinging.....no bruising.......  Had swine flu injection a couple of weeks ago...slightly tender arm for about 3 hrs.....that was it ?!?!  And everyone knows I never get any pain after EC, bounce back from GAs etc......am not complaining .....and of course I've had the emotional pain of not getting anywhere with TTC in 18months.....am just wondering when I am going to have that Ripley moment and realise I am not human     ......is it green blood I should look out for?!?


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Winky I never had bruising with clexane and one woman in the waiting once showed us all her stomach and it looked like she had been beaten with a baseball bat then all the other ladies started to get their out, mine were like little black pin pricks- I think it is all down to your good technique!!

I also don't get AF pain ever and can't understand people who suffer- maybe having no lining to shed is an explanation!!

Good luck x


----------



## Chowy

Winky you do make me laugh  

The bruising thing though I had it with all my IVF injections, at work a couple of times I had to tell white lies to people as when I was putting files on top shelf my top pulled up and people saw the masses of bruising on my stomach.  I quickly thought and said 'oh its the dogs they keep jumping up and their claws are so sharp'. not sure if they believed it, I looked like a battered wife.

Lou I agree with the ICSI, The priory didnt charge me as they only realised after thawing the sperm that it was not swimming as well as it should.  I did panic though during my 2ww that they had used sperm that they were not happy about unless using ICSI.

Better go.  Best of luck Lou, what have you told E about it all?

Chowy and a sleeping Pup xx


----------



## GIAToo

Lou - I know what you mean about donor sperm and ICSI, I was a bit upset when the consultant said I would have to have ICSI and when I queried it he just said he wanted to give me the best chance of conceiving.  I know he's right, but the extra £1255 to do it was a bit of a shock to my system.  Let's just hope I can produce lots of eggs 

Hope everyone else is ok today.  to all.

GIA (and a sleeping **  ) xx


----------



## OneStepAtATime

Just to comment on the Clexane - I found the automatic injecting syringes helped with bruising for a while (I think I moved too much - unintentionally - with the ones you stick in yourself), but then after a few weeks (I was on Clexane for 10 weeks in total) my body reacted worse to it than it had before and there were some places where it didn't look sore, but if I tried the needle there it was agony and if I injected there it left a big bruise. My bruises were quite impressive   

I've still got left over "darker skin colour shading" on my stomach even though the black/blue/purple/green effect has gone. Don't know why  
Best
OneStep


----------



## Betty-Boo

I prefered the others ... smaller needles!!     I used to hate injections!!! Txing has put paid to that!!    
Lou - how are your embies doing honey?? Thanks for sharing with us on your diary - found it a really good read! You take care x x x x


----------



## bluprimrose

One step - i still have shadows from my bruises from 3 months ago and am about to start using clexane again - but a dose that's 3 times higher!!  What dose were you on?  I'm going to be on 40mg before ec and 60mg after et if i'm lucky enough to get to et.

Wonderful news on your scan.

Just to add to the icsi debate - i think i may have posted this before, but icsi is often used with donor sperm as it doesn't always thaw properly.

Hello and hugs to everyone.

bpxx


----------



## bluprimrose

wow lou, that's very interesting.  I have had to have icsi every time and it has cost a fortune, so i'll definitely be asking them about this - thank you.

bpxx


----------



## GIAToo

aweeze said:


> bluprimrose said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just to add to the icsi debate - i think i may have posted this before, but icsi is often used with donor sperm as it doesn't always thaw properly.
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding of the standard screening tests for potential donors is that they put the sperm through a freeze/thaw test before it's accepted - if it doesn't make the grade, the donor is rejected so this scenario should be a rarity and not the norm.
> 
> Lou
> X
Click to expand...

Oh dear - now I don't know whether to tell my clinic that I want to try without ICSI first 

Thanks for the diary Lou - the more I read this stuff, the more I'll get to grips with the whole process.

GIA xx


----------



## indekiwi

To add to the debate - my clinic suggests ICSI for all UK frozen donor sperm but does not for Xytec (which they are happy to import).  The consultant I spoke to reckoned that frozen sperm from the latter is invariably of good quality post thaw, while sperm frozen in this country can be quite variable.  

A-Mx


----------



## Betty-Boo

Inde have heard that before - I know patterdale had xytex wigglies and apparently once defrosted they acted like the fresh stuff!! Must be good.  When I get back from Falklands will be importing from there....  Will have to write off my danish stuff in czech... has cost me a fortune!!

Inde honey - which clinic areyou with again?? As I'm moving southwards wondering if should use a clinic down there instead of glasgow... Plymouth don't have a DE program...


----------



## bluprimrose

gia, do you need to make a decision in advance?  at my clinic they only decide whether to do icsi on the day of ec when the sperm has thawed as it's only then they can see if they need icsi to maximise fertilisation success rates if not all sperm has woken up well.

bpxx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Having used a known donor they used to tell us the pre and post freeze/thaw results- do they not do that with anon sperm?
L x


----------



## GIAToo

Hi everyone,

bp - I don't know.  At my consultation Dr Thum was drawing out my timeline/flow chart and when he wrote ICSI I did query it and he just said he wanted to give me the best chance of conceiving. I'm feeling a bit ignorant about it all at the moment, but he told me to talk to the embryologist when I go back on 7th Dec (to see the Counsellor),  so I can ask her.

Lou - I'm getting my sperm from Xytex so I'll mention what you say to the embryologist.  See what she says andhopefully that will be that they'll decide once the sperm has thawed! Hope you're feeling okay today  

I have so many questions and I'm trying to be strong and positive, but all the talk about injections and bruising is worrying me. I keep telling myself that the thought of things is often worse than the actuality and I should stop being an  

Coco - I feel for you having to explain things to your LO which is adding to the pressure for you   

Take care of yourselves
GIAxx


----------



## bluprimrose

coco, think we posted at the same time.  sorry you're feeling the pressure - but don't give up!  give me a call when you have a min & i can hopefully send some pma down the phone line!

gia - don't worry about icsi, they will tell you if you need it.  it just means they will select the very best sperm to inject into each egg rather than leave the sperm to find the eggs themselves.  i am sure your clinic will do what's best on the day.

bpxx


----------



## indekiwi

Mini, CRM London.  Strangely enough, I think they're rather good at what they do.      Waiting list for donor eggs is being quoted at 6 - 8 months at the moment.  There is a thread dedicated to CRM DE recipients on the DE & S Board - and lots of success stories (as well as some sad ones - no guarantees with DE as you know). 

Coco,    .  Will try and reach you this w/e.

Lou, still chuffed as anything for you and have fingers crossed for Sunday / Monday.

A-Mx


----------



## Betty-Boo

Inde - thank you.... am on waiting list at Glasgow CRM ... well the deferred list now - but have been assured when I'm back from down south I'll go straight to the top!!  Was thinking of trying to find a clinic nearer...
Big hugs x x


----------



## indekiwi

There are certainly clinics closer to Plymouth, but the sting is that wait lists for donor eggs is often 2 - 3 years, and some of the clinics won't treat single women in any case.    CRM London and Herts and Essex are apparently the clinics with the shortest lists around.  Having said that, if you're at the top of the list with your current clinic, and are happy with the service they provide, then it may well be worth the airfares north.  

A-Mx


----------



## blueytoo

Hi everyone

Just a running visit as everything so manic at the moment.

Re: ICSI, as I understand it, it is more usual to do it when using donor sperm. Bearing in mind that anybody, on any random cycle, can have zero fertilisation ( as happened to me on my first IVF cycle) ICSI is generally done to avoid that kind of situation and you will get much higher fertilisation rates with ICSI too. I think it's the top 3 US clinics that do ICSI as standard whether you need it or not and I think Reprofit do too. 

I'm happy to have ICSI and have done ever since my no fert cycle as I appreciate it just gives better chance of more embies in the end. 

I would just trust what the embryologists do on the day as until they see your eggs after egg collection, they don't know the quality etc. Some clinics will do half IVF/half ICSI.


----------



## cocochanel1

Hi girls, how are you all?

I've just received word from SIRM that my immune test results are 'normal'. No NK problems whatsoever and apparently I've just had the most advanced immune test available.

So, if it isn't immune and it isn't physical (last week I had the uterine saline sonography that came back 'normal' with 'lovely' ovaries)... then it must be either sperm or egg quality.

I am more and more convinced that Dr Sher is right about the stimulation induced embryo damage. I think I plan to go with his protocol. Just need to convince a local clinic....I think my money is on Dr Sher.
Coco xxx


----------



## Betty-Boo

Coco honey that''s great news re immune issues .... I'm going for sperm issues honey.  I know sometimes its easier to have something wrong so we can blame that 1 thing - but tbh to know that there are no issues must be a relief.  Fingers crossed you can find a clinic to support you and your new protocol.  Great news on the 'lovely' ovaries too!! So happy for you x x


----------



## Fraggles

Hi Mini

Remind me what's happening in Philly - is it a lovely break or treatment?

And is it 6 months till the Falklands and the dating agency?

Met nice guy at work today but couldn't find out if he is married - drat - next time he comes in but unfortunately he doesn't come in often but was rather delicious.

F x


----------



## Betty-Boo

Hi Fraggles honey - Philly is a break to see my cousin ... haven't seen her in years!! (15 in fact .. oops).  Then the falklands afterwards ..... ah let the dating agency begin x x

Lets hope this nice bloke at work has no ties and enjoy the flirting!!!!  Good god have forgotten how to on thinking about it...          x x x


----------



## Fraggles

Mini

Enjoy Philly - how lovely something to so look forward to.

I so thought I had forgotten how to flirt but apparently not ..... He is a contractor so only seen him 3 times in the 6 months I have worked there ..... sigh.

Could just imagine him with two kids - hopefully mine but no doubt find out he has two ex wives and a brood of 6 kids laugh out loud.

F x


----------



## blueytoo

Coco - that's great to hear the test was all clear. Did Dr Sher realise you hadn't had the straight forward NKC test and assay rather than this K562? So you just have clotting issues/gene mutations untested now then? 

I've just saw my GP today and had ten vials of blood taken for all the blood clotting, gene mutations (MTHFR, Factor V Leiden etc etc) done which is the last of the immune tests now. Depending on those results I just have to decide whether to just have the consult but no tests with Dr Gorgy and get a script for intralipids/IVig or whether to get him to do the NKC intralipid assay as I've already had NKC IVig assay done.

Mini - enjoy Philly, sounds like it will be lovely.

Claire xx


----------



## cocochanel1

Hi Claire, I'm waiting for the karyotyping result to come back. The only immune test I've had is CD69 (with Wessex) and K562 with Dr Sher which he says rules out other immune issues? Do you think I should have clotting issues/gene mutations tested? I didn't know I could get those done via my GP.

xxx


----------



## blueytoo

Hi Coco

Yes it might be an idea particularly as the K562 came back negative hun. I will e-mail you the list that the GP can do which I had done today. At least if they're done then you'll know you've now had everything tested and it will put you on a level playing field with someone who doesn't have any issues. Will go send the email now whilst I remember as everything so manic here!

Claire xx


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Hello Ladies,

Coco glad your results have come back good so far    Hope you find the clinic to suit you and work with the protocol you are happy with.

Have decided to move onwards and upwards and move to IVF for my next go.  One of the nurses called me yesterday to say the consultant has agreed so I have my information session this month and it's suddenly very daunting.  I am seeing my GP this week and am going to ask for FSH & LH to be repeated and wondered what other tests may be worth running?  I know very little about this game so any advice will be gratefully received    I recall reading about thryoid and others I can't remember   anybody have any suggestions?  It's also a lot easier for me to get the results from GP vs the clinic so would like to get what I can get done there.

Thanks ladies
Jovi x


----------



## Betty-Boo

Hi Jovi - that must've been a hard decision- but welcome to the IVF madness - altho never quite got there myself!!   but tried....

I'd definitely get FSH/LH done and thyroid checked.  Think there's a list on here somewhere.  Tbh I'd wait until FSH results are back before contemplating AMH as that's expensive.  Might be worth getting clotting checked too.  I'm sure someone will be along with the full list.  I also had testosterone checked and some strange ones - will dig out my blood results and have a look through.  

     honey - thinking of you x x x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Jovi so pleaesed that you now have a plan best of luck

Coco- delighted that your tests are good and you are coming closer to a plan

L x


----------



## langtang

Hi Jovi,

I'm afraid I'm about to say the opposite about AMH to Mini Minx - based only on my own experience.  I had my FSH done and it came back healthily low so at my consultation my clinic thought they would use low stimulation, but they insisted on AMH too before they decided and that came back very low indeed (it should be high).  They said that AMH is more sensitive than FSH if you are just on the cusp and they based my drug levels on the AMH result - I got very high stimulation when I would have got minimal stimulation with the FSH test result alone.  In the end I got 8 folliles out of which there were 5 mature eggs - I'm sure if they had given me the lower doses that they were predicting pre-AMH I wouldn't have got sufficent response.  I think it's worth paying the extra money to have both results - the additional money is small fry compared to a full IVF cycle.  

Of course everyone's case is different and it may be that the result doesn't tell you anything different to the FSH....

Too many options always!

Clare


----------



## Betty-Boo

Langtang - I was only advising that the AMH was expensive and to have the others done first as you can have them done via your GP. 
Mini


----------



## blueytoo

Can AMH be done at any day in your cycle? I presume it won't matter if you're taking the Pill? I know you can't have FSH/LH done when on the Pill but AMH might be different?

I've always had low FSH/LH and assumed that meant AMH would be normal so didn't get them retested before I started taking the Pill and now langtangs experience has me worried particularly as its been 2 years since I had any tx and last lot was my worst response when I'm normally a very good responder to relatively low doses of stims.

Argh.

Claire xx


----------



## GIAToo

Claire - yes AMH can be done at any time.  (Yay!  I managed to answer a question!   ) Good luckwith all your tests.
GIAToo xx


----------



## cocochanel1

AMH can be done anytime. AMH shows number of eggs remaining and is an indicator of when you are likely to have menopause. FSH is a measure of how hard your body has to work to make you ovulate.
This is my lay person's understanding.

My AMH is very high for example because I'm PCOS so have a tonne of eggs and should have a later menopause. My FSH varies between 6 and 9 depending on factors such as stress.

AMH can be done via your GP.

Coco xxx


----------



## blueytoo

Just found out you can't have AMH done when on the pill so bah to that idea. Never mind. Might have to cancel January anyway. Ho hum.


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Clare hope you don't have to cancel January tx, you've been waiting a while to get this far!  If you do any idea when you can re-arrange for?

MY GP can't do AMH    I found out today that my IVF Info appointment will be 23rd December so will ask the clinic about it then - just need to work out dates - hopefully as soon as possible once I have an idea what time I would need to take off work.  Does a couple of days for EC & a couple of days for ET sound reasonable?  Was going to give myself 3 months or so but too impatient   so hopefully February

I'm on CD one today but thought I will wait for my next cycle to get LH/FSH done incase last months meds interfere with results.


----------



## cocochanel1

Feisty, why might you have to delay? xx


----------



## langtang

I'm sorry if I've worried people with my post.  We're all different and it doesn't mean that there will be a problem, but it can give some helpful info.  My GP tried to do the test for me, but they lost the blood and I ended up paying to get it done at my clinic in a rush because I wanted the result before treatment (I popped out to lunch from the office and drove from Bristol to Cardiff and back with no explanation as to why I didn't reappear until 3.30!)  The result only took 4 days....

Clare


----------



## blueytoo

Jovi - that sounds about right for time off. Some people aren't affected by EC but I always find it painful to walk afterwards, I think it's the build up of fluid as I am always incredibly swollen afterwards. I feel rough for at least 3 days afterwards. If your GP can't do AMH then just ask your clinic. Good luck at your appointment hun  

Coco - because of all the turnover I've lost from the hacker, I'll know for sure on 30th December but I just have a feeling that there isn't going to be enough profit once I've paid all my stock bills. Drugs at my dose are very expensive too and adding in intralipids etc too plus other immune drugs and nursing fees for [email protected], flights and hotel for me and DS who is now considered an adult by the airlines - ridiculous at 12!  

langtang - don't be sorry, I am really glad you mentioned it as I had never heard of anyone with normal FSH/LH but not such a good AMH result. It was really helpful to me to know this  

Claire xx


----------



## ElsieF

Hi girls, 
This was advice to me, and as I am 41, it could have been personal advice rather than general (?) - but I thought this info might be useful to the discussion.

re AMH
before I started IVF, I asked my gynaecologist about what tests needed to be done. He said only FSH / LH. He explained that AMH existed, but said that it was expensive and wasn't any more of an indicator of fertility than a woman's age. He said it definitely wasn't worth it.

When I started fertility treatment, again my fertility doctor (Dr. Trew) agreed with my gyaenie, and only did FSH / LH tests. He said that it is only in exceptional cases (like early menopause) that the issue is the number of eggs. What really matter is the quality of the eggs. 
Unfortunately, the only way to test the quality of your eggs is to do IVF, so they can see what they look like and how they fertilise.

Incidentally, I asked if repeated IVF procedures (producing lots of eggs per month) would reduce the number of eggs enough to bring menopause on earlier - and he said no, we all have millions of eggs so the extra number produced by IVF makes no difference. 

RE FSH/LH 
I had an FSH test result of 9 in February, 8 in June and then 12 in October. my fertility doctor said that the results change from month to month with everyone, but the worst one is generally the best indicator. He used the worst result (12) and the antral follicle count to decide what protocol to put my on. 

Lesley


----------



## RichmondLass

For what it's worth when I first consulted at CRM it was recommended I have AMH as a matter of course (age 43) and I don't remember it being particularly expensive (£100??) against all the other tests and potions.  I had reasonable FSH (9/10) but 2.5 AMH which they seemed to think was a much clearer indicator of ability to conceive.

What I have gathered from this whole process is that you get different advice/protocols/treatment from clinic to clinic and country to country.  it's not necessarily right or wrong just different.  My personal choice would be to have as many tests as are  available as early as possible to gather as much information fo r yourself and clinicians as possible, otherwise you only have to go back later and wish you'd done it sooner!  Especially if you decide to change clinics/countries.

does all add up of course but against the overall backdrop of treatment a few extra tests are neither here nor there.

i felt lucky that I'd already had a load of stuff done at Queen Mary's as a matter of course before I went to CRM and then a whole load more before I settled on treatment at IM in Barcelona. This was over a two year period though so anything you can do to save yourself time is to your advantage.

RLxx


----------



## Betty-Boo

Anyone read GRAZIA this week?  There's an article in there from an IVF expert which I found really interesting. Basically this person states all clinic are obbsessed with the 'perfect' embryo - where as if you put the embryo back in to a hostile environment - it will never implant.  She groups women depending on their cycles etc and treats the woman as a whole and not just a machine to produce eggs - concentrating on the womb.  Thought it was amazing.  She's bringing out a book 8th Jan.  
I'll dig the mag out and get the name.  

Mini x


----------



## GIAToo

Morning all,

AMH test at Lister costs £59 so that's an indicator of cost in most places I guess?

Mini Minx - that sounds really interesting, gonna get a copy of that .  Funnily enough I was explaining things to my parents last night because my Dad was saying "I don't see any reason why you won't get pregnant fist time" (bless!) and I was trying to explain about the embryos implanting etc.  That article will help us all (as in me and my parents) understand a bit better  

Lesley - thanks for your post.  I had an FSH level of 91   which would indicate that I had gone through the menopause and then some   , but the Lister are going to do all my bloods again this month to decide what dosages to put me on when I start treatment in Januay so I'm still hopeful and trying to be positive  

JoviGirl - great that you are looking forward to your next steps.  Can't help with any of your questions about further tests I'm afraid  

Hello to Feistyblue, lantang, RichmondLass, CocChanel, JJ1, aweeze and anyone else lurking or that I have missed  

AFM - went to see my GP today to give her the long list of drugs I need for Jan and she wrote the prescription there and then.  I know I am so lucky to have my drugs paid for, but I am very down that I still haven't got a job and I am panicking.  Have to pay for everything on my credit card and then hope I get a job after Christmas!  Things do have a way of working themselves out usually don't they?  

Love to all
GIA Too xx


----------



## cocochanel1

GIA, wow your GP is incredible.
Have you had a consultation letter from the Lister yet? I went for my first appointment there the week before you and have still not received a letter summarising what we discussed! I have only had a bill. 

Coco xxx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Rose are you able to cycle this month or are you waiting until Jan?
L x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Great news Rose, how long do you usually stil for, would this make EC/Et around the 18th.  Does LWC close over Xmas? 
Wishing you loads of luck with this cycle. 
L x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Rose that is so spooky I was cycling again just when my due date was and in a way I had to focus my energy and all my strength  and tunnel my grief on that cycle and the baby I was trying to create, I really hope that you have a fantastic new year gift 

L x


----------



## cocochanel1

Cem, has the good news sunk in yet?   xxx


----------



## GIAToo

Coco - No I haven't had a letter yet, just the bill     I didn't know they would send me one  

Rose - I know I am very lucky   Good luck for this cycle   

Cem - I don't think I've congratulated you on your       Take care x

I went to the chemist to get my drugs today and she really had a go at me and said "No high street chemist will keep these in stock!  They're specialist drugs!"  etc etc.  She was so rude and aggressive I wanted to land her one  .  I didn't, but I did speak up when she then started to have a go at my Mum!    Why do people have to be so rude and aggressive?  I assume if I go to a nicer chemist they will order the stuff in for me?  She did eventually say that she would do that, but by then I had already decided I would rather eat my right arm than give her any business!!!  Sorry for the rant  

Hope everyone is well - I'm waiting for the Strictly results - go Chris!

GIA Too xx


----------



## blueytoo

Coco - I didn't get a letter after my initial consult at the Lister. Jaya did write a short letter after every cycle to sum up that cycle. That letter was for the GP though for my notes, with a copy usually sent to me too. I don't think they do letters after initial consults as standard.

GIA Too - Boots will order it all in for you and should hold most of it in stock. They've only ever had to order in the IVig for me as it's a specialist item.

Rose - good luck   

Claire xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

GIAT- Most chemist need a day at least to get the stimming drungs in as they are too expensive for them to keep stock, but there is no need to be rude to anyone, I know that you are getting your drugs free but Ali in Shadwell sells the cheapest drugs I think that you can collect, I would call him up and he would have them in by 3 pm the next day, he keeps somethings like Menopur in stock but not puregon or Gonal f- and he is very pleasant!
L x


----------



## indekiwi

Rose, good luck for this cycle.          

A-Mx


----------



## Felix42

Just wanted to pop in and wish you lots & lots of  for this cycle Rose. I'm so pleased you managed to arrange your dates so you could be cycling when its your due date. Such a difficult time but great to be able to focus on your new little embies getting ready to snuggle in just then. 

Wishing all other IVF-ers lots of  too. 

Brilliant news about getting the drugs from your GP GIA, but  to that chemist!

Love & hugs, Felix xx


----------



## cocochanel1

Rose, wishing you masses of luck - hope this is the cycle for you. Love Coco xxx


----------



## langtang

Good luck Rose, glad you could fit your cycle in before Christmas

Clare


----------



## aweeze

Good luck Rose! I really hope that this is the cycle that brings you your dream. Christmas will hopefully help to distract you a little from the 2ww and the break over the holidays will give you a good excuse to get your feet up and let the little one(s) snuggle in. Everything crossed for you. 

Lou
X


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Rose are you have CGH at LWC? really hope that this is the one for you
L


----------



## winky77

Hi girls...

just catching up on the threads....Rose..got everything crossed for you this cycle.....our time is due my friend! 

lol to everyone else....

...winky


----------



## Fraggles

Hi

Rose, got everything crossed for you.

Hope to get results from my c test tomorrow - fingers crossed it is clear.

Hope everyone has had a relaxing weekend.

F x


----------



## winky77

Hi Rose/JJ
Can I ask which clinic is doing a CGH trial?  I've been thinking and planning ahead in case lil Frostie doesn't do the trick.  I've been looking for clinics with immune knowledge and also where CGH can be done (as my eggs are just getting too old to not check them out).  I have a consult lined up with the Lister 22nd Dec (by which stage I'll know the frostie score) and have got the forms form Care Notts although Dr George has no appts until Feb  .  Also still talking to Dr Sher in Vegas but need to win the lottery for that one.....

..WInky


----------



## GIAToo

Just a quickie....

Rose - good luck with this cycle     to you 

Thanks for all the info re: getting my drugs ladies  

Night everyone 
GIA Too xx


----------



## blueytoo

Winky, the CGH done in the UK isn't the full CGH done by SIRM as it's only on eggs and not embryos, meaning that incompetent embryos can still be transferred. I read a post by someone else explaining it, something to do with only 1/8th of the cells being tested here in the UK, so its not "correct". I'll see if I can find it as I only read it yesterday!

It's just something to consider.

Claire xx

ETA I found it, here is the cut and paste:



> to any embriologists i'm about to oversimplify, but the logic of it is something like this:
> 
> 1. they test 1/8 of the cells and they cannot test more without compromising the embryo's viability. So 1 out of 8. I am not sure if this automatically means the matching pair is the same. ie if you test 1/8 you get results for 2/8.
> 
> let's assume 1.
> 
> No mosaicism
> 2. (a) if the result is a "good" at 8 cells, there is still a chance that a "bad" could develop from then towards blast or beyond. This is why testing a cell of a blast (as per the US i think) is much more accurate. This is also why many embryos collapse between 8 cells to blast. So, a good can become a bad.
> 3. (b) If it is a "bad", with no mosaicism, it is an accurate result.
> 
> Mosaicism
> 3. if assigned a "bad" and there is a mixture of cells, again, these have plenty of time to replicate before reaching the blast stage. (Admittedly, a few embryos do self correct but this is mostly in younger women with a tiny % of "bad".) Again more "bad" can develop.
> if assigned a "good" and there is a mixture of cells, the same point applies - the existing bads will replicate and again more problems could develop splitting towards blast.
> 
> That's what it boils down to - extra splitting going awry before blast stage.
> 
> i'm also starting to think, as I type, that, if you think going to blast makes sense to "weed out" embryos, you should be testing blasts not the 1/8. Supporting use of blast culture but testing at day 3 are mutually incompatible.


----------



## blueytoo

Rose - hmmm you may be correct about PGD, that poster did say it in reply to a question about CGH at Care though   In any event, considering SIRM invented CGH and have been doing it for at least 3 years (possibly more like 4 or 5) and they have been getting good results, it doesn't make sense why the doctors in the UK are not following the proceedure properly. Dr Sher has said that no-one in the UK is doing it properly, so as I understand it, it makes as useless as PGD in determining whether or not the eggs are of a good quality. As far as I understand it, there is no test at all that can determine egg quality other than visual tests by the embryologists in the lab which aren't fully reliable.

Dr Sher still recommends CGH for women with multiple failures using donor sperm as he recommended it to me, and I only ever accept donor sperm that is from a proven donor. It is far more important for the embryo to be tested than the eggs from what I understand and from what Dr Sher says. Surely if it was acceptable to just test eggs that is what Dr Sher's research would have thrown up and that is what they would have done?

I think it's incredibly confusing when the UK takes on a new treatment and only does it half heartedly. It's like the immune treatment and tests too. Even Dr Gorgy does not do the full work up as he won't do LAD or DQ alpha matches for single women and he doesn't do the DQ alpha matches on donor sperm as Dr Sher would do. It all seems a bit of a pick n mix approach to me.

Claire xx


----------



## blueytoo

Rose - yes very interesting and SIRM don't freeze embryos and haven't for some years, they vitrify and there is no risk of loosing any embryos in thaw because of this which is another frustrating technology that this country has not taken up. I would absolutely consider using CGH one day but not in this country because there has been at least one reported case where an abnormal embryo was put back despite passing the CGH test and that could not have happened using the SIRM method from what I have read. 

You would think given the fact that the SIRM method of CGH was a huge breakthrough and has given great success there compared to here, that all clinics would adopt that approach. I am a facts and figures woman I guess and don't see the point for me personally in wasting money on a clinic with a lower success rate. It's the same with the immune stuff. SIRM has a 85-95% success rate with their immune protocol, Dr Gorgy's rate with his version of it isn't even half that. 

It makes sense to me to maximise my chances, I'm not getting any younger, I've had an awful lot of tx, I've donated eggs four times with a positive outcome for each of those women, I have very serious immune issues that aren't fully controllable so to follow any protocol other than the one that gives me the highest success rate seems unhelpful. I think in the UK we are seriously short changed with regards to accessing the latest IVF developments which is why I am having to use a mix of different clinics, consultants and protocols to get the best treatment for me. 

When it comes down to it, any one of us could have a random cycle when all are eggs are "bad", you can even have a random year when all 12 months would be no good. It's really interesting that you feel Care's approach would work for you actually and I truly hope it does   

Claire xx


----------



## blueytoo

Rose - I had five cycles at the Lister and this next tx will be the first one following Dr Sher's protocol of Gonal-F with no downreg so I am going to be very interested to see if it yields me more eggs/embies as my last Lister cycle was a complete disaster for me with my lowest number of eggs, only one fertilised embie and it being so bad that I didn't have it transferred. Yet my recipient that I donated too at the same time, once again got pregnant. It's going to be very interesting as Dr Sher reviewed all my notes from all five Lister cycles and provided scientific evidence as to exactly why their protocol hadn't worked for me. 

I am excited in a way to be trying new stims drugs as only ever had menopur before. If I could afford the Lister again but £10-12k for a cycle there when you add in everything is too much when I've had so many failed cycles already. I know that my consultant at the Lister would happily let me try Dr Sher's protocol with the Gonal-F but money wise it isn't a solution to cycle there again. I completely agree with your mum too about the standard of living etc hence my choosing Reprofit this time as I can at least have 2/3 cycles there for less than 1 Lister cycle which has to be good.

Claire xx


----------



## aweeze

Rose   one day can make a big difference. Have a look at the opening page of my latest diary. I went from a deflated 6 follies to..... can't remember without looking errr 14? the following day, to 21 by EC! Fingers crossed hun    

Lou
X


----------



## indekiwi

Bluprimrose, hope EC went okay and you are recovering nicely.  

Rose, sending lots of      that even if your follicle count doesn't increase dramatically, the eggs retrieved are perfectly formed and do the job you need them to do.       

A-Mx


----------



## winky77

Hello Peeps....

Just had my follow up consult with Dr Sher at SIRM Vegas and I fessed up that I had FET on saturday.  He was very lovely about it and wished me lots of luck with it.....asked if my boobs were sore!!.....well they are now cos I've poked them so much in trying to check!    As I expected he would say, he did feel we should be talking next week rather than now...i.e. when I know the result ....but I still had lots of questions so I persisted in the call!  He does a good job of convincing me than a very individualised protocol is my only chance with my own eggs at this stage/ age and with my history...and that I must do CGH as my eggs are so flippin old and 95% will be chromosable abnormal!  He said nobody in UK got pregnant with their own eggs beyond the age of 43 last year.... is that really true?!?!?  I am off to the over40s thread for a nosy very shortly!

Rose and Feisty...you guys were posting about CGH earlier and Dr Sher was saying that what he does is on the embyro...they vitrify it rather than freeze it while the results come back and are achieving a 70% preg rate with embies that are deemed as perfect (regardless of age of egg).  He said that 97% of the CGH related births to date in the world have been at his clinic....and was basically giving strong impression that the UK are just at the learning stage with this.....which I kind of knew anyway. 

So if this FET is a BFN I have a big big decision to make......do I chuck everything at one last go with my own eggies (Intrallipids, LP, CGH etc) probably spending best part of 2 weeks out in Vegas and costing at least 12k      OR do I do something halfway to that in the UK? .....or do I move on to donor eggs........ am not going to think about it anymore until have result......

lol

..winky


----------



## Betty-Boo

Winky I expect he's referring to those going thro treatment cos I know my cousin got pregnant naturally with her own eggs ... obviously ... and has gorgeous twin boys!!  (She's 44 now - 43 when she had them).
Wishing you lots of luck with your frostie x x


----------



## Felix42

Rose, just wanted to send you some  and lend some PMA! As Lou said things can change and even if they don't  its quality all the way!!! Thinking of you. 

Bluprimrose,  for a successful EC. Hope you're resting up. 

Winky, goodness that's quite some decision making you might have to do.  that little frostie proves its all academic though.   

Love & hugs to all, Felix xx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Winky - yes, the 'nobody over 43 got pg with their own eggs' refers to those having IVF....there are natural pgs at that age.....ho hum, perhaps we should be forgetting tx altogether and concentrating on doing it naturally


----------



## suitcase of dreams

oops, new laptop, posted that before I meant to - was going to add that I hope it's a decision you don't actually have to make because that little frostie does the trick  
Suitcase
x


----------



## cocochanel1

Winky, that is funny - I've just come off the phone to Dr Sher too. I got off the phone at 7pm, what time did you speak with him? 
Dr Sher confirmed my immune test is normal and uterine sonography is normal so no issues (phew). He is utterly convinced that the problem is my LH (due to PCOS) and the fact that the stimulation I've had to date has damaged my eggs..He doesn't think I need donor eggs, doesn't think I need CGH but does think that I need his protocol. The Lister want to put me on Menopur and he strongly disagrees due to the LH content. They also want to put me on Metformin which he says with my blood test results I absolutely don't need. 
So, either I persuade a UK clinic to follow his protocol to the letter including coasting or I have to go to Vegas. 
I think I'm sold on his logic and solution so it is now just a question of where and when. 

Winky, is it (only) £12k for treatment at SIRM? That isn't much more than at The Lister. Personally I'm starting to think that I would rather one decent shot at a pregnancy rather than several failed botched attempts over here. If he is right I really should be able sue for my money back! (yeah right).
BP, hope you are ok  

Rose how are you doing?    

Coco xxx


----------



## RichmondLass

I've read a lot of you ladies posting about Las Vegas - would it be possible for you to crash any forums they have over there?  There must be a few equivalents of FF over there and I'm sure the American ladies are just as vocal and keen to share their experiences as we are.  That would surely provide you with some substantiation for what Dr Sher is talking about and some first hand info about comparable sitations?

I bet the clinic knows which ones to try.  Or Sohocat on the abroadies thread is US-based and might know some to try?
RLxx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

SIRM have their own forums called Make a Baby dot com and the Drs also go on and answer questions - anyone can ask anything it isn't just for SIRM pts.  There is also FF.com the US version, and the Yahoo sites.

L x


----------



## winky77

Ha ha Coco....that's funny.....my 'window' for the consult was from 6.30pm but i think it was about 7.30 when he phoned cos he'd obviously been busy chatting to you!!!  It's good news on your immunes....I would really think you should be able to get the protocol followed this side of the Atlantic....My main pull to Vegas is the immunes expertise and the CGH cos of old eggs neither of which you need.  Have you thought about considering Reprofit?....import sperm from ESB if want to have donor release and basically tell the clinic what protocol you want to follow.....in my experience Reprofit have always been open to patient choices! I've just done it with the intrallipids approach.  On the other hand.....we could go to Vegas together......share a room to save costs....I could help out with poppet when you've got appts....and at night we could get a babysitter whilst we go out and try and win back our investment on the tables!  Of course I am hoping all of this is academic and that my frostie will do the trick..... 

ps...JJ's right....the SIRM board is very useful.....particularly as the Dr's themselves respond to questions.....

lol

..Winky


----------



## winky77

Oh Rose.....I am so sorry chuck.  If there is any hope for a late surge over the weekend, I really hope that your luck turns.  Tis a rocky road that we travel....

..Winky


----------



## aweeze

Oh gosh Rose - that is so difficult for you. I know when I had just a few follies my mind went into overdrive trying to work out what I should do and it was a very stressful time so     coming your way. 

Will keep everything crossed that things change by Monday and if not, that you have been able to come up with a plan B that you feel comfortable with. 

Take care

Lou
X


----------



## Felix42

Rose,  hope things turn around over the weekend. Even with 3 follies is it still worth having EC particularly if you think this might be your last go before DE. You really never know and it would be good to at least make use of those follies. Anyway just a thought and as I say lots of  for good progress over the weekend. 

Love & hugs to all, Felix xx


----------



## Betty-Boo

Rose have everything crossed for a turn round - honestly honey - my friend had 4 follies and fell pregnant with her gorgeous son.  The most I'd get if I stimmed would be about 2.  I'd say go for it!!  But totally understand if you're wary.
Big big hugs and all the best honey


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Rose  I really hope that this change over the weekend.  I was advised to abandon my 3 rd cycle due to lining thinness and 3-4 follies but I refused as I thought I have come this far and miracles do happen, also an abandoned cycle isn't much cheaper jsut no ec and et to pay. I see it like a game of roulette in a casino and if you aren't playing the game you have no chance of winning.
I was also told I think by ARGC that there isn't much point increasing doses it is starting off higher and lowering that is more effect as you can't catch up. Not sure if it true.

My friend had 2 eggs and 1 embryo and now a 1 yr boy- so don't give up too early. There are lots of threads in peer support where people have asked 'should I continue.  Thinking of you

L


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Rose I am so sorry to hear about abandoning but glad that you have made a decision. I think that we all have to go through various things to come to terms with our decisions, and not be left with 'if only I had tried x or y' you had to do this. 

I know you can't offer drugs on FF but I am sure you may know someone personally or the clinic may, I let a stash of merional expire and had to be thrown out but  only ARGC used it at the time!

I hope DE in SA works out (avoid the world cup weeks!! for prices) or I think it might be Shady Grove in the USA, who have the largest DE bank in the US, they do share risk programme for 6 cycles etc and the nurse will call you and chat etc.

Good luck


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

you could try Professor Anne Hathaway at the Princess Grace Hospital, she is lovely and did my HSG for me.  Mr Trew at 92 Harley St organised it for me with her, so you could try there they do their own scanns, would Dr Gibb not be able to refer you somewhere, where they do hycosy and hsg as they are v similar i think one is saline the other dye

L x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

you could ask SA if they would do half your and half donor eggs so you would get to ET but also give yourself a go, one of the FF had that in Cyprus i wanted to do this but with my dodgy eggs and lining I was advised against coz of lining problems
l x


----------



## Felix42

Rose. I'm so sorry this cycle hasn't worked out but great to see you have a plan that will I'm sure move you closer to your dream. Lovely you can make an extra family connection with SA for the DE too. It is difficult to move on to DE but in my experience its a very exciting journey and one which will I hope give you the child you so deserve, who will very much be your own flesh and blood son or daughter. 
 and  again for having to stop this particular cycle. 

Love & hugs, Felix xx


----------



## aweeze

Rose - so sorry that you are having to abandon hun. I wish you lots of luck with whatever decision you come to and   that it brings you your baby in the not too distant future.  

Lou
X


----------



## bluprimrose

rose, you know i'm sending you love and hugs      .

bpxx


----------



## OneStepAtATime

Rose
I'm so so sorry this cycle hasn't worked out - only just caught up with your news. 

     

This has been such a tough year for you, and these next couple of weeks are going to be especially tough... 

Wishing you all the very best and hoping that 2010, with the prospect of DE, will bring you all the joy you deserve.        

Thinking of you
OneStep


----------



## lulumead

Hi Rose, sending you some  . and lots of   that 2010 is your year.
xx


----------



## Teela

Ohh start my down reg and first IVF in 1st Jan, just waiting on my protocol now
but im a little nervous and excited.  

Hi to everyone else... 

Teela
x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Really hope that it is a great start to the year for you!
L x


----------



## Maya7

Teela - best of luck!!!  Hope that the extra precision timing-wise with IVF makes the difference for you.


Maya


----------



## GIAToo

Started taking the pill yesterday and found out today that GP Surgery may not pay for my drugs.  They had previously told me they would pay for drugs for three cycles.  Will find out on Monday.

Sorry for lack of PMs - feeling like poo and very  

Hope everyone's ok 
GIA Too xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

GIA- it did seem very generous and ground breaking to get funded drugs and at an age (like me) that they is out of the PCT/NICE guidelines for funded care, I do hope that they stick to their word after all it is misleading

L x


----------



## Damelottie

Oh GIA Too - that is so terribly unfair   . I di hope they stick to their word. If they arent able to I also hope they are more careful in the future   . Its such an expense - not like getting the funding of a jar of ointment wrong. Got  for you


----------



## Mifi

Teela all the best of luck with your first IVF      Dont forget to drink lots when you down regging to avoid those awful headaches you can get   

Love FM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


----------



## Teela

Thanks FM  

Talking of headaches, had the mother of headaches today, completely stranded at home, car wont start
and massive amount of snow!! And to top it no painkillers arrrgghh. Managed to beg my brother to come round
with some, phew. So will definitely be taking your advice as I dont cope well when I have a poorly head and its
always one of the main symptoms of stress and PMT for me!  

Anyway enuff about me how have you been and whats your plans re treatment FM?

BFN
Teela
x


----------



## cocochanel1

Hi girls, I've got to make a decision re my next cycle and am trying to look at clinic stat results on the HFEA website but cannot find the right page! Please can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks, Coco xxx


----------



## aweeze

Morning

Coco - If you are looking stats by individual clinic so go through the clinic guide here http://guide.hfea.gov.uk/guide/AllClinics.aspx?x=A&y=T select the clinic you want to look at and then down the LH side, you'll see success rates listed. Hope that helps.

Lou
X

/links


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

coco the other thing is that the stats are out of date all the time usually 2 years and **** website still calls ACU at UCH by this name although it changed in Summer -  I would narrow your choice down by this and then ring the individual clinics and ask them for the lastest stats to be emailed to you, they have this to hand as have to provide this by a monthly basis for PCT's commissioning cycles from them etc.

The other things with stats I think although for all pts, are usually for standard ladies I know I don't fit into that category and my chances are much reduced.

God Luck
L x


----------



## GIAToo

Hello Ladies,

Teela - didn't say good luck with your cycle in my last posting.  Wishing you lots of luck and   

Coco - can't help you with stats I'm afraid, but hope you get the info from the clinics  

I have been trying to find information on reiki.  My friend's mum does it with something else that I can't remember the name of (sounded like boing!?), but she charges £55 and says I'd need 4 treatments. Not sure I believe in it though and it sounds expensive?.. 
My other options are: acupuncture or reflexology (but never been a great believer in the latter either)  Thinking I should stick with what I believe in, but worried it's too late for acupuncture to have any effect? (I've read that I should've started treatment 2 months before first cycle and I've just started down regging!) Would really appreciate your opinions, experiences or recommendations.....I have looked under complimentary therapies section on FF, but doesn't seem to be much "action" on those boards and some posts haven't been answered.

Hope everyone is having a nice Sunday  
GIA Too xx


----------



## bluprimrose

hi giatoo

really lovely to meet you yesterday.

i'm a big fan of acupuncture - who knows if it works but it's very relaxing and stats show that it's meant to be beneficial in ivf.  

the most important times are during your cycle but yes they do say to start in advance - but don't worry, something is much better than nothing so you're not too late.  you can have it now and then when af is due to bring it on and then when af comes to help get rid of everything!

the times i have it during tx are once during stims, the day before ec, and directly before and after et, then once during the implantation window (6-10 dpo).

hope this helps - good luck!

bpxx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

With acupuncture it is important to have it in the stimming phase as it helps you build up a thick lining, I would highly recommend Daniel Elliot's clinic google londonacupunctureclinic- he has a few around London.  It is important you go to someone who is an expert in fertility and IVF or else they could work against the drugs and try and realign your body whereas the drugs are trying to push your body in a different direction.  Also on the day of ET immediately pre and post transfer (German protocol) to increse chances

When I first went to Zita West she said Acupucture was the most important and if I couldn't toerate it (bening needlephobic!!!) then reflexology

L x


----------



## GIAToo

bp and JJ1 - thanks as always for your help and advice.  I will look up those clinics JJ1.  
It was lovely to meet you both too and I hope you are okay today   
Lots of      for you bp.
GIA too xxx


----------



## bluprimrose

thank you giatoo - i need all the     i can get!  i've been to one of those acu clinics - it's opposite my tx clinic, it's good.

lovely to meet you too jj1 yesterday (did i already write that somewhere else?!)

bpxx


----------



## cocochanel1

Girls, 
I have a big decision to make and am hoping you might be able to help me by letting me know what you would do in my shoes..

So, in the last 3 months since my last negative (after 3 IVFs, 1 FET and 3 IUIs) I have done a lot of research, had 4 appointments with Dr Sher of SIRM, several appointments with my existing Consultant at The Wessex, an appointment with The Lister an appointment with Professor Franks (UK leading PCOS expert) and Professor Nick Macklon. 

Upshot of all of the above is my immune tests are clear, existing sperm is to be binned and new sperm imported from the States or Cryobank. I have PCO but not really PCOS. The only symptom I have is 'slightly' elevated LH levels. The focus now seems to be on reducing my LH.

Dr Sher believes that the short protocol with late antagonist blockade has not been working due to elevated LH - - -> elevated testosterone - - -> damaged eggs = not pregnant. He is certain the solution is to manage my LH levels to normal via the Birth Control Pill for a month, then long protocol and coasting.

The Wessex have had a call with Dr Sher and have been sufficiently convinced by him to allow me to try his protocol with the exception that neither The Wessex nor my GP will prescribe the combination BCP for me due to my age (39) and the fact that I have migraines which are contraindications and they feel that the risk of a blood clot is too much of a risk to take. Dr Sher's response is for me to take baby aspirin. In his view the BCP is an essential part of the treatment. 

My Consultant at The Wessex has been invited by Dr Sher to spend some time at his clinic which she is considering - too late for me but perhaps will help someone else one day.

The Lister wanted to put me on Metformin (which noone else believes I need as my insulin levels are completely normal) and Menopur which again noone else agrees with as it contains LH (and given the whole point is to reduce my LH it seems really silly to put me on stimms with LH..). But the Lister do agree I should be on Long Protocol. They also suggested steroids but again noone else seems to think I need this given my immunes are clear.

The Wessex also said that given Short Protocol has not worked for me it is time to try something else and her gut feel is that we should try Dr Sher's protocol.

Both Professors just believe I've been incredibly 'unlucky' because all stats and results looked good as did embryo quality and the fact that I get to blast...

So, several options:
(1) Vegas SIRM - very expensive and logistically massively challenging but no doubt the gold plated option including CGH etc
(2) The Lister - great lab, more expensive, great results but slightly worrying advice after first appointment - perhaps could be persuaded to do Dr Sher's protocol but I'd need to go back and work it through. But do the Lister just have more experience than my existing clinic which would give me an overall better chance because they would have greater depth of experience to fall back on? Logistically still rather challenging for me - a 5 hour round trip for scans and treatment which given my OHSS history will likely be daily or every other day which would be hard...
(3) Continue at The Wessex - follow Dr Sher's protocol minus the BCP (which seems to slightly defeat the object) and risk that their lack of experience (ie. they have never followed Dr Sher's protocol or tried coasting' does not compromise my treatment. The Wessex have told me there is a risk I will be hospitalised with this protocol as OHSS is again very likely for me and with coasting it can increase the risk. I do feel their lack of experience has in part got me into this mess ie. the bad sperm should have been binned day 1 so we could have ruled out this all being a sperm issue (donor still has no proven fertility after 3 years as a donor...) and should have changed to long protocol earlier/ made other changes. 
(4) Try somewhere else eg. Care Notts for CGH and another opinion
(5) Revert to IUI and try at eg Reprofit - cheap and for IUI easily accessible - the great disadvantage is at 39 only 1 in 8 or so eggs is likely to be ok, the advantage is that with my PCO IVF doesn't really suit me - it worsens my LH levels (which kill the eggs) and it gives me OHSS but at 39 1/2 can I afford to faff around with IUI??

Help!!
I'm about to start my next period and was supposed to be starting the next cycle in January but it has all got a bit tight!

Hoping that you can help me think through the above...
THANK YOU

Love Coco xxx


----------



## cocochanel1

Hi Cem, Lou and JJ1 thanks for the information re clinic stats in my earlier post. Rose, thank you for the other info too sent via email. I hope everyone is ok and enjoying the run up to Christmas.
xxx


----------



## bingbong

Coco I really can't comment on what to do but when reading the thought that I did have was that if the Wessex think that you may need to be hospitalised due to OHSS then that is something to consider with going to SIRM, as anything to do with hospitals is massively expensive in the US and your travel insurance wouldn't cover it because it would be a result of your tx out there. Just something (else!) to think about.

I really wish you luck, I've been so impressed by how you have researched and organised everything. 

 and     to everyone else

Bingbong x


----------



## lulumead

hey coco...
wow you have really done your research.

SIRM sounds like the top option but is obviously going to be v v expensive.
is there a way that Dr Sher can be in contact with your consultant if you go to the wessex, although it sounds like you'd need someone prepared to prescribe the BCP for you to be able to try the protocol properly. Is there a way you can sign a disclaimer or something, so that you take the risk...although I suspect this might not help.
If your consultant is considering going to Dr Sher's clinic then they obviously think there is something to be learnt there, could Dr Sher persuade them about the BCP and the medical reasoning behind this?  Even if you had to pay his time to do this that would be cheaper than flying to the US.

With IUI - are you prepared to maybe give it a year of attempts? if the stats are 1 egg in 8 then you'd have to figure at least 8 tries...would that just be too long to wait? and actually then not very practical if you have to go to Brno every month?

what's your gut telling you? I'm a big believer in instinct.

xx

PS as an aside why would long protocol be better than short protocol?  I have only done short and would be interested to know.

PPS have you considered natural IVF?  no drugs, just harvesting your egg naturally in cycle, fertilising and putting back...similar/slightly higher percentage than IUI and over a few attempts supposed to get similar results to conventional IVF.  A natural cycle at my clinic is £1750 + sperm + HFEA fee, but obviously no drugs so lower cost, and no stim drugs so would that get over the LH issue?
xx


----------



## bluprimrose

gosh coco, i need to digest!

you are brilliant for all the research you've done.    

bpxx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Coco if you want the BCP and no-one will prescribe get Dr Sher to prescribe it -a bummer having to pay for it and the Fex Ed charge when it is free in the UK!! but he uses a pharmacy in Ecino and they FedEx it over- this is how I get my viagra suppositories which were about $800 for a month cycle or monitored cycle.  The risk of a combined pill (I presume they mean like Marvelon when the scare came out years ago and ladies were advises to switch to the the mini pill etc or accept the slightly higher risk, sign a paper to say that you had the implications explained and it is only slightly higher!) I opted to stay with it (in those days when I was trying not to get pregnant and with Mr not so Right) as I didn't have the other risk factor at the time (I wasn't overweight then!!) I never smoked and had a good health record.

I would slightly agree that if you are on aspirin or some blood thinner it could counteract the risk of blood clots eg clexane.  

I personally would be going for the Lister, as they do have a much more individualised approach to cycles - although when my friend ended up hospitalised with OHSS 3 times after cycling there she wasn't that well supported by the Lister

What about Rose's consultant at LWCc where they also do CGH?


L x


L x


----------



## blueytoo

Coco - I think either the Lister or SIRM is your best chance as you already know   

The 3 cycle package at SIRM is supposed to be incredibly good value, have you looked into that? I'm not at all understanding the Wessex's stance on the Pill. I have a history of migraines which only started in my mid-20's and even a suspected minor brain bleed too and no-one has ever said to me not to take the BCP. I was put on it at 12/13 to help deal with my periods/endo and have taken it on and off over many years either for tx or as now, back to back to give me a break from the limits my periods place on my life.

Is there some other reason your GP/Wessex are so anti-BCP? I can think of a couple of other online friends that take it as contraception and suffer from migraines. Stims drugs can induce migraines too after all!

The OHSS is a concern so I think that further backs up the option of going to SIRM as presumably Dr Sher would be willing to do extra monitoring if you needed it, eg an earlier first scan etc. OHSS is so unpredictable too, I've only had it once on a cycle with 16 eggs and it was very mild and went away fairly quickly but didn't have it on my 18 egg cycle. Other people can get OHSS on 10 eggs or not get it with 30 eggs!

I have just thought of another option, you could maybe go to Reprofit for IVF but ask for them to folllow Dr Sher's protocol (well actually with Stepan, you'd have to tell him!) but maybe a lower dose of stim drugs with the aim of getting say 5 eggs. You could then have those embryos frozen, not have transfer and then go back again, aim for another 5 eggs to be retrieved, take all 10 embryos to blast and then go back a third time and have the best blasts transferred, Stepan will transfer up to 3 embryos.

I know someone who did exactly this but at SIRM and they went for 3 or 4 retrievals so had a good batch of frozen embryos to choose from and some left over. It avoided OHSS, got their eggs whilst they were slightly younger and I think on the second transfer they got pregnant.

Just a thought and I suggested Reprofit for that due to costs.


Claire xx


----------



## Betty-Boo

Coco I take it you've had your clotting factors checked  Being on the pill and not knowing I had factor v - was the major cause of my PE - and would not wish the on my worst enemy.

feisty's come out with a good idea re reprofit.

I would be tempted to save like mad and go for SIRM or try the Lister if they will follow Dr Sher's advice -saying that it does seem as though the wessex were happy to follow Dr Sher's protocol and they do know you. Can't your GP prescribe you the pill??  Won't belong and we'll be getting it over the counter!!

All the best x x x x


----------



## GIAToo

Coco - I hope you're not going mad trying to make a decisionon what to do.   

Just a quick update from me- my GP just called to say that they ARE paying for my drugs - the other doctors thought she had already done the prescription and thought I was trying to fiddle them!!!    She had done it but it was wrong.  I have a feeling that it will be just one cycle they'll pay for, but that's still great.  So why do I feel so down??   Don't think I'll be able to afford another cycle at this rate, not at the Lister anyway! My   has gone into hiding already!

Hope you are all well today   
GIA Too xx


----------



## bluprimrose

that's fab news gia too!  here's some        for you!

it's an exciting time for you - you're on the rollercoaster, try to enjoy it (it can be hard at times, but it's exciting too!).

  .

bpxx


----------



## bingbong

GIA Too that's brilliant news!!! I'm so pleased for you. I know what you mean though about the money and what if this doesn't work. I was like that about going to Reprofit for IUI in January, I at one point wasn't going to go because I couldn't see how I could go out every month and try, and then I realised that who knows what will happen and maybe it will just take one time, and if not then I'll deal with that when I get there.

Jovi good luck for tomorrow     



Bingbong x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Coco so much to think about your head must be buzzing.
A  PE is a pulmonary embolism where a clot has formed broken off and lodged in the lung, google it for a more technical explanation but this is more common for younger women   Who are  smokers, overweight and on the pill. A stroke can be caused by something similar happening in the blood vessels in the brain. The treatment For pe's used to be blood thinners of which heparin, warfarin , clexane are etc.

One of my ivi-Spanish- buddies used to have natural ivf and eggs collected monthly a slower process but low drugs or no drugs. I have another friend who went to Create and had mild ivf she was obese, 40 didn't want drugs++, donor sperm and got eggs 1 embryo and has a year old son from it all.
L x


----------



## Sima

Coco 

I hope you and LO had a wonderful Christmas together.  I am sorry you are still having to make some difficult choices about your treatment going forward.  I am no medical expert so I cannot advise you what to do about BCPs, however you have been under the medical supervision of Wessex and your GP and so they are fully aware of your history and have first hand experience of dealing with you.  I know you have spoken to both Sher and the Lister in length but neither of them have the benefit of treating you first hand so can only go with what you have told them and also take a risk assessment based on the normal population.    

Surely Sher must have come across people who are not advised to take combination birth control pills in the past.  If he is that much of a genius then he should be able to tweak his protocol to suit you and therefore minimise any risk.  After all it will be the your GP/your local hospital who will have to deal with you if things (god forbid) go wrong and it would not be good to have to go back to your GP telling them that you have ignored their advice.  FYI - when I spoke to SHER earlier this year they told me to start on the Yas pill (which I think is a combination pill). My GP prescribed the pill with no issue but then I guess they were happy with my history.  I never went with SHER in the end.  

As an aside - my father was admitted into hospital on Weds this week with a suspected pulmonary embolism.  Luckily, the scan showed that he did not have one in the end but that was after suffering a horrible 24 hours of waiting.  His condition was treated as an emergency and he had all number of doctors treating him.  I don't want to frighten you but as Mini said it's better to be safe and sure.

Sima x


----------



## RichmondLass

Coco I too was taken off the pill several years ago because of migraines with visual distrubance and the increased risk of stroke.  When Institute Marques gave me the pill to take home I mentioned this to them and they said I could check with my GP if I liked.  I did, telling her I would only be taking it for a few weeks to regulate my cycle (i can't remember how long It ook it in the end, two to three weeks?) and she wasn't unduly concerned and nor was I.  It's such a small risk of stroke I just went ahead.  IM had said they could work round it if I couldn't take the pill but it was easier for all concerned if I took it. I suspect it's not the end of the world for them because with donors coming out of their ears, they've probably got women primed and ready to rock and roll every day of the week, so if I slipped a few days it wouldn't matter.  

It's not for me to say as I'm no medical expert and don't know your history but for me, it wasn't a big deal to take it.  My migraines are less frequent than they used to be but I do get visual disturbance still now and again and always separate to the pain - just on its own for 20 mins.  (Actually I recall I had to take it twice of course because my first cycle was cancelled due to me bleeding for too long.  But as I say, ti was for such a short duration I didn't feel it was a big deal.)

hope this helps and doesn't confuse you more.

RLxx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Coco it i s so hard and I guess you have to weigh up the risks for yourself and LO, could you ask Dr Sher and the other Drs what your personal risks are not the national stats with BCP.  I also think that all fertility drugs we take carry risks regardless and we are often using drugs that they are not licensed for (eg immune treatments) but we all weigh the risks, listen to the Drs, research ourselves and make an informed consent to choose to have them weighing up the risks ourselves.  

I do however think that the monitoring of you also can help minimise risks and manage side effects if they occur, at ARGC they monitor all sttimming ladies very intesnive my worst day was 5 different drugs to inject, 3 blood tests, 2 scans and spending 7 hours at the clinic but  their prevalence of ohss is v v low if at all and I do think intense monitoring is key to this, hence they say move to London for the 2 weeks stimmingfor the people travelling far and that you can't really work during that time unless you have a veryflexible employer- I would think the Lister could offer you similar monitoring so ask if Wessex could.

I know when I was on IM oestrogen for months with circulating blood levels of over 15000 the Spanish Dr said I was at risk of stroking and then took me off it- I guess you also have you LO to consider in all this.

It is true that your local nhs services will be the ones to pick up the pieces when adverse  things happen to pts, my gynae ward often has ladies who have ohss and had treatment overseas, so maybe Wessex would be better but it doesn't fill us with confidence when as pts when we know so much more than drs. Would Dr Sher share care with them adn take you on as a virtual patient? The US regularly put all the ladies on the BCP as the Drs go to the clinics at set times and all the pts synvh up with when they will be in the office to care for them, here it is different.

Good luck with your decisions and thoughts
x


----------



## blueytoo

Coco - I am still very confused about the BCP because by what your GP & Wessex are saying I should not be having it either but as I said, even the neurologist consultant (one of the top guys in the Country) that I saw after I had my suspected brain bleed didn't say anything about stopping the BCP and he knew I was on it as at that time I was right inbetween two IUI cycles and had been taking it.

I'm going to ask a friend about it too now, she is a consultant gynae/obstetrician and suffers very severe migraines herself and has had some IF issues so she may know something about this as it has me a bit confused and worried. As you know I really trust Jaya and am 100% sure she would know if it shouldn't be prescribed.

Of course if there is a risk, it's not worth taking because of LO so maybe if you get new donor sperm and they are willing to follow Dr Sher's protocol to the letter minus the BCP, then it does sound like the Wessex is best for your situation. As you know my DS has been with me to all my appointments over all my 7 cycles since I had him. My last EC he had to stay home with my parents and my friend took me to EC at the Lister and bought me home. He was 5 when I started tx again so he's an old pro now at 12. My sonographer at the Lister even let him operate the machine to measure and count the follies a couple of times himself - he loved that as he is very technical/scientific minded.  

Many patients take their children with them to appointments at the Lister, and the staff are all fab with kids too so don't let that side of it worry you. I did find the travelling knackering though, particularly on my last few cycles as I got older and wouldn't do it again if I ever went for tx in London again. I'd stay in a hotel from the day of the second scan until EC.


Claire xx


----------



## GIAToo

Sorry for the me post, but I feel like I'm going a bit mad.. Firstly 'cos I've been stuck in my house and unable to go out for three days because of my broken window!  There is a man coming to fix the window tomorrow morning - but of course I am worried that now he has my address and knows I have a broken window, he is going to send his mate the burglar round tonight!!! Paranoid or what?? - not helped by the fact that I have been burgled twice before, although not in this property.  

Secondly because I am totally obsessing about IVF and having a baby!  Would I be this obsessed if I were (a) trying naturally or (b) trying with a partner?    Everyday I tell myself I am not going to look at FF and not obsess about statistics or the possibility of abandonded cycles or look at houses nearer my parents house (just in case) or worry about how I'm going to cope if I have twins...or worry if I take the job where my ex works, what all the gossips are gonna make of it if I do get pregnant (even though I know it's nobody's business).......worry...obsess....worry..... going   

The good news is that Xytex called me back today and I paid for my sperm (ugh! still can't get used to saying that) and there is a chance that I will have someone to share shipping costs with which will save me a couple of hundred quid  ust enough to pay for my new window      Other good news is that a company I worked for previously hassaid they have 8-9 months work for me starting in January if I want it.  My ex still works there, but I need the job more than anything.

Hope everyone else is ok and sorry to be such a misery  
GIA Too xx


----------



## Fraggles

GIAtoo

Great news, news job in new year if you want it - they obviously value you - more money for your fertility treatment. How many vials and where are you having treatment. What made you go the donor sperm route if you don't mind me enquiring? Obviously universe is telling you to go for your fertility treatment because things are going your way. And who cares what the gossips say - no need for them to know that you had fertility treatment unless you want to and read an article in yesterdays online mail that said many 30 year old and 40 year old singles (male and female) were rushing into unsuitable relationships and accepting second best to meet their desire for a child rather than because it was the right partner. So slap on the back for you for going it alone, for getting a job and providing a stable and loving environment for your child. Also shows you are could at your job and are in demand so when you choose to go back to work after having child, it will be there for you.

And great your window is getting sorted - see it's all working out for you!

F x


----------



## GIAToo

Ah Fraggles, you are one of those lovely glass half full kind of people aren't you?  I so wish I was more like you because you are absolutely right to point out all the positives    Thank you.  I've just been feeling lonely and had too much time to think!

I ordered 4 ampules as advised by the embryiologist - one per cycle (I want to try three times) and one as a back up.  I'm at the Lister.  Had no choice about going the donor sperm route being single, but not sure if I have misunderstood your question?  Don't mind you asking anything though so feel free  

Are you going to manage a trip to Reprofit in January after all??

GIA Too xx


----------



## Chowy

GIAtoo

I was exactly the same and I know many others have been or are on here.  You obsess and I know couples having IVF do the same, you cant help it as it is something you want more than anything else.  When my first and second IVF's were abandoned I was hysterical and I mean that, but now I sit here watching my LO crawling round the floor as I type and eating the leg of my chair.  When they were abandoned I had to move anything that said IVF such as my drugs, drug bag, any research papers otherwise I couldn't cope.  I coped better when I was taking the drugs as I felt I was doing something, but the time in between was awful and I never thought it would happen to me that I would get pregnant and have my LO. 

Stay strong and best of luck. 2010 is another year.

Chowy and Pup


----------



## GIAToo

Thank you Chowy. I try and keep my negative ramblings and worries to my treatment diary, but I just needed some reassurance that I wasn't alone in how I was/am reacting to all of this.    I definitely need to practice my   as  it obviously doesn't come naturally  
Your LO looks gorgeous in that Christmas outfit! 
Thanks again
GIA too xx


----------



## Teela

Hi GIAToo

I know and completely sympathize with how you are feeling  

I pick up my drugs and Protocol tomorrow to start down reg on New Years day 
Its my first IVF after 3 failed IUI's and I am in unknown territory and feeling a bit head all over, so
I do empathize with how you feel hun. Stay positive and Im sure 2010 will be a positive outcome
for many of us single girls. Talkin about 1/2 full no alcohol for me this New Year 

Teela
x


----------



## bingbong

Hi all,

I am thinking of getting this http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/2705671/Trail/searchtext%3EMINI+FRIDGE.htm and wondered if it would be big enough to keep drugs needed for IVF? I know that it depends on what drugs etc but as a rough idea, I don't want to get it to use for IUI drugs and then find it's not big enough for IVF.

Thanks and   to all of you

Bingbong x


----------



## Teela

Hi Bingbong

I have just picked up mine and the only thing that needs a fridge is the pregnyl and that will easily fit in there, mine
is in a little plastic container and in the main fridge. The rest of the drugs and syringes etc are just in the box in my bedroom.
I suspose it does depend on your protocol to how many drugs you get, Im on Bruserilin and Menopur [prob spelt wrong lol!]

Hope this helps

Teela
x


----------



## blueytoo

Bingbong, you only ever need to keep your trigger injection in the fridge whether you are doing IVF or IUI. Stims drugs don't need it. At most you are talking 3 small boxes not even as big as an egg box in total.


----------



## bingbong

Thanks guys, good to know  

Bingbong x


----------



## Fraggles

This thread is mine full of information.

Enjoy your fridge Bingbong, is it end of Jan you go to reprofit - I am waiting for Stepan to come back to me.

Happy New Year and here's wishing everyone a wonderful and dream fulfilling 2010.

F x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

I was always told to keep gonal f and puregon in the fridge- when opened- as well as pregnyl/ ovitrelle but they don't take much room at all
l x


----------



## GIAToo

Hello 

Just watching the news and hoping I can get to the clinic for my scan tomorrow - setting off about 2 hours early in my wellies I think!  

Hope everyone's well??
GIA Too xx


----------



## cocochanel1

Hi girls, is it my imagination or are the IUI and IVF threads incredibly quiet at the moment?

How is everyone?

I am seriously contemplating a return to IUI as IVF has not worked for me and it seems that the IVF drugs adversely affect my conception environment. I have discussed at length with several clinics (Wessex, Lister, Bridge, SIRM, Professor Franks) and all are in agreement that IUI could be a way forward for me in the short term. They think IVF should be attempted again if IUI doesn't work but are all in disagreement regarding the protocol. In the first instance I think we would attempt natural IUI with new (super) donor sperm. 

Regarding IVF protocol I have ruled out going on the birth control pill as all clinics/specialists in the UK agree it would be too risky for me (due to age and visual disturbance with migraine). Lister, Bridge and SIRM would all put me on long protocol with various flavours and Wessex would put me on Short Protocol with early Orgalutron to block the elevated LH that I have. I don't plan to go to SIRM so really my choice is between Lister, Bridge and Wessex. Immune issues have been ruled out. Both Lister and Bridge are offering CGH this year but really I am not convinced it will help - I have heard so many specialists say that 1 batch can be good and the next can be bad so how would it be helpful? So, I'm inclined to think that Long Protocol is the way forward since Short has not worked for me and all specialists bar the Wessex are shocked that I have been on Short Protocol!

I am going to purchase the youngest, fastest donor sperm I can find as all specialists seem to think there is a reasonable chance that the donor sperm I used for all treatments to date could be to blame.

So my next steps are:
(1) Buy new sperm
(2) Find cheapest place to do 3 to 6 natural IUI's
(3) Pick an IVF protocol so that if IUIs don't work I can move to another IVF in August

I am finding it very hard to know what to do for the best since every specialist says something different!!!

Hope you are all well and that BP you are enjoying your birthday celebrations xxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## lulumead

sounds like a plan! if my tube test comes back clear I shall be following this too!
x


----------



## winky77

Hey Girls....

I am back from a whole 2 weeks of (almost) total avoidance of anything TTC related (not counting the interlude with the Egyptian receptionist!) .....I have drunk alcohol almost daily    blew the diet big time   flirted (mostly with gay men - ** pics evidence!) ...and I've had so much FUN !!!  Have realised I've not been having enough of that in recent times...not totally missing but just not enough of it!  So my New Year's resolution is to balance TTC with living a NORMAL LIFE....ok maybe not as off the scale as recently but just a bit more balanced! 

Going to get my next steps sorted in the next few days.....OEIVF in Notts...hopefully March time.  Wud be good to get this thread active again! 

Yesterday I had to run a client workshop for mothers wanting to mentor other new mothers returning from work after a maternity leave....a whole day of baby talk....have to do same again next friday....I felt like an Alien being the only person in the room not 'blessed' .....bet they all assumed I'm just an ambitious career woman with no interest in kids.....amazed myself how I can maintain the professional distance!.......evals were great so must have done something right?! 

lol

..WInky


----------



## GIAToo

Coco - how you getting on with your action plan - got new SUPER sperm yet?  

Winky -glad to hear you are planning your next cycle  .  I'm intrigued as to what your job is?? 

Lulu - when will you find out if your tube test is clear?  

AFM - I've been stimming since Wednesday and already feeling rather bloated (it usually has gone down by morning) with some twitchy pain (same as usually get with normal monthly ovulation). I know my AMH was low which is why I'm on a dose of 450 menopur, but I'm really concerned about OHSS    Go from being really excited to floods of tears!!    But generally ok    There's so many milestones to get through aren't there??  

Take care all  
GIA Too xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

GIA good luck with stimming.  I see it all as hurdles we have jump over to get to the end.
L x


----------



## GIAToo

Hello ladies,

Bit gutted this morning as had my first scan and I only have one follicle in each ovary!    To think I was worried about OHSS   

Trying to keep positive and the nurse has already mentioned converting to IUI so there may be a few options (i.e. abandon, continue or convert).  Next scan is Friday.

GIA Too xx


----------



## cocochanel1

GIA, sorry to hear this - try not to worry too much - what day are you on - things can change quite dramatically in a few days. Hugs
xxx


----------



## GIAToo

Thanks Coco - I'm on day 7  

xxx


----------



## cocochanel1

Hi, I am having karyotyping and thrombophilia bloods tests done. Please could someone tell me what these tests will tell me? I have been quoted £311 to have the thrombophilia test at my local hospital - does this sound about right?

Thanks, Coco xxx


----------



## bingbong

GIA2 sorry to hear about your scan results but hopefully you will have lots of sprouting follies that will arrive by Friday for you   

Coco I'm not totally sure but the thrombophilia looks at blood clotting, I could say what I think that karyotyping is but it will probably be wrong so will wait for someone else to come along.

Bingbong x


----------



## GIAToo

Thanks bingong  

Coco - sorry I can;t help you, I haven't got a clue   
xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Coco I know that I have have the thrombophilia (clotting screen) the karyotyping or had done and it was to prove that he wasn't a carrier of cystic fibrosis and his DNA had X and Y chromosomes etc
L x


----------



## Rose39

Coco - as JJ says, the karyotyping checks if you have any serious genetic issues, and the thrombophilia tests are to check for the common blood clotting disorders that can affect implentation/ increase miscarriage risks. I had both done as part of my post-miscarriage tests. I can't comment on the costs as it all depends on what combination of tests they are doing. Why not post on the immunes thread on FF - other ladies may have more insights?

Rose xx


----------



## Betty-Boo

coco - that does seem expensive for thrombophilia - saying that I had mine done on NHS as had history of clotting.  These tests are totally different to the ones your GP does for clotting - they can only test if you are currently actively clotting - not if you're carrying the gene that effects clotting... Definitely worth having done as it can be life threatening - not only baby's but yours too.
Take care x


----------



## bluprimrose

hello girls

not been around for a while (my last failed tx hit me quite hard, been busy with tax return, snow leaking through kitchen ceiling - all the delights of life, etc.etc!!) & i thought i'd just pop in to say hello.  i'm on the tube & not been able to go back very far to read everyone's news, but as i've read a few posts i realised how much i've missed you all!

GIAtoo - please don't worry - things can change in just a few days - & after all, you only need one good egg!  I hope the stimming etc. isn't as scary as you thought it might be.  Am sending you lots of pma & wish you so much luck.

Coco - those are tests that should be covered - will explain when we speak.  Karotyping is to check you're not the carrier or chromosome abnormalities which could lead to implantation failure.  If you have a clotting disorder the same can happen as blood flow may not be good to the uterus.  I am on a high dose of clexane now because of the results of those tests.  Have you had MTHFR done?

Winky, glad you're jumping back on the rollercoaster - may see you in Notts!  You're totally right about having fun.  It was my birthday last weekend and I actually let my hair down for the first time in A YEAR AND A HALF!!!  It felt good and I felt a little bit like me again.  My friend even said it was good to have the old me back - if only for one night only!

Bingbong - was very excited to see you're off to brno so soon - how wonderful that your journey's starting.  Wishing you loads of luck.

IQ - how are you?  Wishing you loads of luck too.

Work is horribly busy at the moment but I'll catch up properly with everyone's news as soon as I can.  I so hope all us singlies have something amazing to celebrate in 2010.

Lots of love to you all.

bpxx

p.s. afm me.  I'm having a hysteroscopy tomorrow just to check everything's all ok in there - & if it's not hopefully it can be sorted out.  Then I'm hoping to use the eggs I froze 2 & a half years ago.  I really don't want to sound negative but there's not much chance of success at all - but it feels the right thing to do to give them a go before doing anything else. 

p.p.s. are there any meets planned for anytime soon? xx


----------



## GIAToo

Hey BP - nice to "see" you back on here and glad you had a good night out on your birthday.  I am planning to have a lunch at mine on 6th Feb which everyone is welcome to, but if people prefer I can organise a lunch in a more central place?  I just want something to organise and look forward to and my social life  is a bit dead at the mo (mostly self-inflicted).  

Good luck with the hysteroscopy tomorrow.   
GIA Tooxx


----------



## bluprimrose

Thank you giatoo.

I may be away the 6th - but if not may i invite myself along??!

bpxx


----------



## Teela

Hi Ladies,

Hope everyone is doing ok? Bit like BP been a bit absent lately as busy with work over Xmas and trying to get ready
for a new Uni year - hey ho here I go again on the juggling of work, Masters and trying to be a Mum- I must be mad 

Maybe see you Winky at Notts as Im with Care there 

Hope things improve GIA2 as others have said things can change in a few days 

Hope you get some Options Coco on the tests, sorry I cannot help.

AFM- on first IVF since 1st Jan and downregging was ok till the second week and as FM said I got some cracking headaches!
Just started stimming today and back for scan monday, so keeping everything crossed I respond ok..... 

Chat soon and really hoping I get to meet you all this year at a meet [damn work!]

Teela
x


----------



## GIAToo

Hello ladies,

Still only two follies...one was only 11mm and the other 8.5mm so I am stimming until Tuesday (which will be 13 days up to Monday night) and then we will decide what to do.  If the larger follie gets to a good enough size but the other one doesn't then I will probably convert to IUI, so I won't have completely wasted my time, but obviously the chances of success are much lower.  If both follies grow to a decent size, then EC MAY still be an option, but I'm not sure.  Had a little cry in the nurses office again  (I felt fine before I went in ‘cos I’d been chatting to a couple of lovely FF ladies in the waiting room), but the possibility that I may not conceive with my own eggs is hitting me rather hard at the moment (I thought I was okay about DE  ).  However, I felt better after chatting to the nurse as there are lots of avenues to pursue if this doesn’t work (as you all probably know!  ).  Going to take Thursday and Friday off next week as I really can't concentrate at work and EC, or IUI, will be Friday.  Thursday I have my first feature film premiere!!    Just feel exhausted now, all these emotions are tiring aren't they?? 

Just a bit worried about chances of success with IUI, especially as I've never had my tubes checked.  And will they use 2 lots of sperm for that?

Sorry for me post  

GIA Tooxx


----------



## Teela

Hi GIA2

Fingers crossed you get some more follies by tuesday. Do you mind telling me what meds your on and dose?

Re iui no they should only use one vial, I know some people have said they have 2 insemms but my clinc monitor
and insemm once only.

Hope you feel better soon
Teela
x


----------



## GIAToo

Hi Teela - I'm on menopur (450 a day) and synarel nasal spray.  Thanks for the info re: no of vials.  I suppose the only other worry is how good the perm is once it's defrosted.  
Thanks again for your reply   - feeling very lonely at the mo  
GIATooxx


----------



## bingbong

GoingItAloneToo said:


> I suppose the only other worry is how good the perm is once it's defrosted.


I didn't know that curly hair helped it to swim better  

Don't feel lonely, we are all here for you  

Bingbong x


----------



## GIAToo

OMG  Perm!?!?!      Oh it feels good to laugh!! Thanks bingbong  
xxx


----------



## Teela

Im sure it will be fine GIA2 perm or no perm! lol  , although . As BB said don,t feel lonely, we are all here for each other 
Got my scan tomorrow and im on a much lower dose, 225 menopur and buserilin injections, so keeping it all crossed.

Teela
xx


----------



## GIAToo

Teela - thanks  . Good luck with your scan tomorrow - let us know how you get on       

GIA Too xx


----------



## Felix42

Perm gave me a giggle too!  Are these   born in the 80s maybe?  Teela, good luck for your scan tomorrow too and fingers crossed for Tuesday GIAT.  

Love and hugs, Felix xx


----------



## Teela

Hi All

Had my scan today, it is early days [day 6] of stimming but approx 5 on right and 3 on left. They seemed
happy with that and told me to carry on with current dose and back Thu [day 9] for another scan.
Never having done IVF i have no clue whats good or ok at this stage, but hoping Thu brings more information
on EC etc 
Good luck GIA2 with your scan tomorrow 

Teela
x


----------



## GIAToo

Hi Rose - I ordered 4 - the Lister told me to order one per cycle and one as a back up!  They also said it didn't matter whether I ordered washed, unwashed, ART etc so to just order the cheapest. That was from Xytex who also waited as long as they could to see if anyone else at my clinic was shipping sperm, which there was and so my shipping costs were halved  

HTH
GIA Too xxx


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Rose I ordered 3 - now I wish I'd ordered more    I used Xytex, they were great.

Fab news Teela    Great for day 6!

I had my consulation Friday and have to go ahead for IVF, have been prescribed Synarel nasal spray & Menopur 150iu - seems a bit of a low dose but appears to be their standard protocol.  I didn't realise we carried on sniffing while stimming?!  It's so confusing.

GIA2 loads of luck for your scan tomorrow     

Good luck everyone
Jovi x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Ohh Jovi I really hope that this is the time for you
L x


----------



## Teela

Fab news Jovi, keepin the lot crossed for u  

Rose I ordered 4 from ESB and now on my last one, so really hope this is my time 

Teela
xx


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Thanks JJ1    it's going to be a couple of months away I think but it will probably be here before I know it.  Hope everything is going ok with you and you get news of your donor soon  xx


----------



## Rose39

Thanks so much for your feedback! 

Jovi - fab news that you're going ahead!  

JJ1 - is there any news on your egg donor? Have the clinic given you any indication of how long you'll need to wait until you're at the top of the list? Hoping that they find you the perfect donor very soon!  

Rose xx


----------



## GIAToo

Hi lovely ladies,
Had scan today, they told me to continue stimming until Thursday, another scan/blood test, then should go for EC on Saturday  
Trying not to get too excited, but at least they are happy for me to go to EC (may get a call this arvo though...) BUT no-one mentioned IUI.  It's all very expensive as you know, but I think I am better off  "going for it" with 2 follies.  They were 12mm and 15mm I think...didn't check....and my lining is 11mm.  I am sure I could see more than one follie on one side though    Time will tell.

Jovi - I know I was really confused by the sniffing and injecting at the same time!  Good luck  

And thanks for all the good luck wishes!!!  

GIA Too xx


----------



## bingbong

great news gia2 

Bingbong x


----------



## Teela

Positive news GIA2, hope it all goes well on Thu keep us posted  

Teela
x


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Great news GIA too -     for Thursday xxx


----------



## acrazywench

Rose, my clinic recommended ordering 6 vials. I was recommended 3 iuis followed by IVF if that didn't work and I don't know if that has anything to do with the recommendation. My hope is that I won't need all of them - unless it's for sliblings   - but since I've already used two, I feel better knowing I still have a few goes left. Also, since I was ordering from ESB and there is the flat rate £1000 pregnangy slot the cost per vial seemed much more reasonable with more vials. (I know that's verging on crazy maths, but if it helps me justify the costs of treatment to myself I'm all for it.)

x


----------



## Rose39

Thanks so much for your advice ladies! I've posted a reply on the donor abroadies section, but have played safe and ordered more than I was initially planning (also had advice from the clinic on this).

Rose xx


----------



## Lou-Ann

Jovi, great news that you have got the go ahead  

Teela, good luck for your scan tomorrow 

GIA2, good luck for EC on Saturday 

Lou-Ann x


----------



## Betty-Boo

Ooo lost of news on here!!  I've got some ESB wigglies in Reprofit which I doubt I'll use.... not sure if I can pass them on - but better than lose them!
Been sad couple days as was supposed to be having my DE IVF yesterday ... will dust self down and get on with it...
Hopefully back here this time next year!!
All the best thinking of you all x x x x


----------



## Rose39

Mini hunny      

Rose xx


----------



## cocochanel1

Mini


----------



## indekiwi

Oh Mini, thinking of you love.


----------



## Damelottie

Oh Mini   . Can't the wrigglies stay there until you use them?


----------



## Felix42

Oh Mini. I do feel for you. Do hope you have a good time in the Falklands and then come back for a fab BFP!   

Love & hugs, Felix xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

mini i hope that you have a safe trip and are soon back and ttc
x


----------



## lulumead

mini    , but I'm hoping you don't need them as you will come back from the islands with an extra package on board     or have least have had fun trying very hard  

Roll on the next 6 months. Look forward to seeing you with a lovely BFP.
xxxxxxxx


----------



## bingbong

mini   

bingbong x


----------



## Betty-Boo

Not sure if I'm going to go back to Reprofit .... on waiting list in Glasgow too and GP is more keen to support me if I go there.... I'll see how I feel when I get back!  May find Mr You'll do and ask for a donation!!!      
Will keep in touch and can't wait to come back to loads of BFP's and babies!!!
Take care big hugs - missing you all already x x x x


----------



## blueytoo

Mini  -    when are you off hun?

Claire xx


----------



## Betty-Boo

Claire - the big day is next wednesday - just got my clexane from doc ready for 18 hour flight!!  Joy!

All the best x x


----------



## Damelottie

Mini - No hun, you're forgetting that we're going together with Alfie


----------



## Teela

Mini  all the best and good luck with you'll do hunting 

GIA2 how did your scan go?

AFM had scan today and got 11 follies now [day 9] back sat for another scan and if all ok EC prob monday! omg its
really happening now, never wanted a glass of wine so much!! Ovaries aching now and big old headache, not sure if thats
the drugs or the worry....

bfn
Teela
xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Teela that is great news really hope that Mon goes well
L x


----------



## GIAToo

Teela - that's great news -    Here's lots of        for Monday  

AFM - I am going crazy and I want to get off this rollercoaster   Went for my scan today - was in the bl**dy clinic for 2 hours again    Scan showed one follie had grown to 18mm, but the other had only grown to 12.6 mm (i.e. 0.6mm more).  I was disappointed, but then surprised when they said I could go for EC on Monday with no further scans, but got excited.  Had to get more drugs, which is a bummer.  Anyway, then I got a call tonight saying that the Doc wanted me to go in for another scan on Saturday  
So I'm thinking that the little follie won't grow anymore and they won't let me go for EC and I'll have to abandon and I've had enough of this!      Sorry to be a misery.

GIA Tooxx


----------



## blueytoo

GIAT - sorry to hear its not all going to plan   Would you think about converting to IUI if it comes to it? That must be better than abandoning. Hopefully the scan will bring better news on Saturday. At least the Lister will scan you on Saturday, some clinics won't do that and it sounds like they are keeping a close eye on you. Did they take bloods too to check your E2 levels?

Claire xx


----------



## bingbong

Oh GIA2 you poor thing   sounds horrible to get your hopes up and then crash down again. I wish that there was something more that I could say but I'm sending you a massive virtual hug, you are such a strong woman, you can do this! Hopefully Saturday's scan will show an improvement and all will go well for EC. I really have everything crossed for you  

Teela, that's great news!!!! 

bingbong x


----------



## Teela

Oh GIA2 so sorry its not going to plan for you, sending cyber hugs   
I will send positive thoughts that the scan sat shows improvement, as Claire said could you not
convert to IUI if things don't change ? As u say bummer re more drugs as well, I was just checking mine
and got enough till sunday at moment.
keep positive, things can change.

Hugs
Teela
xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

GIA really hope that the Lister gives you better news on Sat- the ups and downs are so cruel.  L x


----------



## GIAToo

I'm sorry, I know others have been through much more than this, but I just want to cry.  The uncertainty and not knowing when things are going to happen and trying to plan my life! I'm gonna tell my boss what I'm doing tomorrow 'cos I can't stand the fact that this is dragging on and I keep telling him different things.  

I don't know if it's worth going for IUI, but it seems silly to not try something!! 

Thank you for the   - let's just hope I don't end up having to go to the clinic on 6th Feb for something!!!  
xx


----------



## Rose39

GIA2 - Sending you big hugs hunny    . Sorry things are so tough right now.  

Rose xx


----------



## starbuck

GIA2 - will keep my fingers crossed that you get better news on Saturday. 

Starbuck
x


----------



## GIAToo

Thanks a lot ladies.  I told my boss today and he was lovely.  He said I didn't need to use my leave for the hours I'd lost as I would probably make those up in other ways.  He also said he was relieved because the other day I told him that the hopsital weren't happy with the way I was responding to the drugs and he thought there was something seriously wrong with me!!    He mentioned the possibility of job sharing with the other girl who I'm covering  

I have to say overall I am not impressed with the Lister in terms of service at all    Is it usual for every appointmet to take 2 to 2.5 hours?  I am going to ask to speak to my consultant today as I want to know what they are thinking, instead of just following their instructions like a robot.

Sorry for the mini rant  
GIA Toox


----------



## Damelottie

GIA2 - Am keeping  for you


----------



## Lou-Ann

GIA2. sorry things aren't going to plan for you  . Glad that your boss was understanding though. Good luck for your scan tomorrow  

Lou-Ann x


----------



## bluprimrose

giatoo i'm so sorry you're having such a tough time with your tx.  really hope your scan tomorrow brings with it a definite plan of what you're going to do next - ec or iui.  did you speak to your consultant today?

lol & hugs

bpxx


----------



## GIAToo

Hello lovely ladies - thank you all so much for your support, kind words and  
I spoke to a nurse today and she said my lining was really good andmy estradiol was 2664 whichis why I think they are carrying on with me.  She said wait until I have my scan tomorrow and then speak to a doctor, so that's what I'm going to do.
Will let you know

GIA Too xxxxxxx


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Good luck GIA Too     

Mini       

Jovi x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

GIA  keep your chin up and you have a great lining scan- so have won half the battle, and your oestrodial is good
L x


----------



## bingbong

will be thinking of you tomorrow GIA2. Great news about the lining and bloods.   

bingbong x


----------



## cocochanel1

Thinking of you GIA. Who is your Consultant? If I were you I would push for more time with the Consultant. Who is scanning you? At my clinic my Consultant did every scan, EC and ET.  You are the Customer - ask for whatever you need.
Feisty made a good suggestion. It may be worth considering IUI from an economics standpoint with 1 follicle so that you have reserves left should you (hopefully not) need another cycle? IUI would be a lot cheaper. 


 

xxx


----------



## GIAToo

Hello ladies - quick update. My larger follie is 21mm, the smaller only 13.6mm, but here's hoping it has a miracle spurt before Monday as I'm definitely going in for EC....eek!  There was also a third follie, but that was only 10mm so prob no use, however gives me hope that I might respond better with a different protocol if I have to cycle again.  The really good news is my application for a new interest free credit card was accepted!!!    

Just done my trigger injection  

Thank you ALL so much for your support this week - I don't think I'd have got through it without you all.   

GIA Too xx


----------



## Lou-Ann

GIA2,   that your smaller follie has a growth spurt before tomorrow   . Good luck for EC.

Lou-Ann x


----------



## GIAToo

Thank you Lou-ann.    When are you gonna have your first IUI?  
GIAToo xx


----------



## bingbong

GIA2 that's great news that it's all go. I was thinking about you lots yesterday. I really hope that you get some really good eggs and don't have to worry about next time. 

Teela I hope that you are doing ok. Is there anyone else about to have IVF? Sorry if I missed you.



bingbong x


----------



## Lou-Ann

GIA2, I'm going for my first IUI tomorrow - exciting!! 

Lou-Ann x


----------



## GIAToo

BingBong - thanks    How you coping with the   ? 

Lou-Ann - ooooh how exciting!!!! We'll be on the   together!     

xxx


----------



## Sima

Good luck tomorrow GIA2.  Let's hope they find a couple of nice eggs in there.


----------



## Felix42

GIA2, wishing you lots of  for tomorrow. How exciting! Have everything crossed for you!

Love & hugs, Felix xx


----------



## Rose39

GIA2 - lots of luck for tomorrow!     

Rose xx


----------



## lulumead

good luck GIA2...hope eggs are lovely and juicy  

xx


----------



## bluprimrose

wishing you loads of luck gia too!

bpxx


----------



## Teela

Good luck GIA2, hope it all goes great today   
Lou-ann thinking off u.  

AFM - trigger was last night so ET tomorrow, OMG, scared now. My tummy looks 
black/blue think I messed up my injection on sat night! 
Last scan was Sat and found 12 about 2 big ones each side, so we will see how they
are doing tomorrow!

BFN
Teela
xx


----------



## Lou-Ann

Teela, good luck for tomorrow  

Lou-Ann x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

GIAT- I hope that all went well at the Lister today- how many eggies??


----------



## GIAToo

JJ1 - TWO golden eggies!!      they both fertilise!!
I woke up in the recovery room to hear JLS singing "You only get one shot, so make it count. You might never get this moment again" which made me laugh and then as the nurse wheeled me back into my room she said "one lovely wife back" to my DAD!!!     My Mum put her straight as I was too busy laughing!  

Teela - good luck for tomorrow   

Thanks for all the lovely good wishes and     .  You're all brill!  
GIA Tooxx


----------



## bingbong

great news gia2! I look forward to you joining us on the 2ww thread 

Bingbong x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

GIAT that is great news are you have a day 3 transfer?
L x


----------



## lulumead

Hi Teela....somehow missed what you were up to!!  Good luck and see you on the 2WW...that board is BUSY   
xx


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Brilliant GIA too!      for good news 2m!   OMG I had to laugh at the "one lovely wife" thing, so glad you saw the funny side of it    

I'm just juggling dates trying to work out when I can go for it .... looking like mid May atm but didn't want to wait that long    

How does everyone work it with booking time off work?  I think I will book 2 weeks with I think it will be and just think of something that might move the dates a little bit and cancel a week at the last minute.

Teela loads of luck for a bumper crop tomorrow     
Jovi x


----------



## Jammy J

Hi all, 

Hope you are all well, hope you don't mind me jumping in on this link as this is the first time I have posted on this particular thread..
I am after some advice if thats ok, I had my apt at the clinic today and was all ready for them to say yes, IUI no problem to start this month and was in shock when they advised I would be better off going straight to IVF as much better results.
I had been TTC with x boyfriend for 18 months but we called it a day last summer, LH and FSH are both good, less than 5 and AMH 8.3, had hsg etc and no issues..also really regular cycles and have been having weekly accupuncture for last 3 months.

My dilema is do I go straight for IVF or try IUI first even though they think there is very slim chance of this working; The cost frightens the life out of me but if IUI is not going to work I guess it makes more sense in the long run.
I probably know the answer but I would love to hear your views on this and sililar experiences.

Thx everyone,
JAH x


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Hi Jah,

Did they say why?  I had similar dilemma as not got a lot of £££ to throw towards this, so need to maximise my chances.  I was quite sure I was going to go for IVF straight away but the more I thought about it I thought my results are 'ok' so opted for a couple of medicated IUI's first (I didn't really consider natural IUI).  I did set a strict limit on this, it was always 1 or 2, but felt I had to try a less invasive approach first.  Can you remember what your FSH & LH were?  I think FSH has to be higher than LH.  In the end I had 2 IUI's and now moving onto IVF. Decisions decisions!  Happy to chat more if you want to bounce thoughts / ideas around  

I'm quite   at the whole IVF process now, even though it didn't work I am glad I gave IUI a shot.

Good luck!
jovi x


----------



## Jammy J

Hi Jovi
FSH was 5ish and LH 4ish, I think I was in shock yesterday when they told me this, the main reason they feel IUI would not work is my age and the fact that we were trying for 18 months and nothing happened.
I thnk IVF at the clinic is about £2500, would you know roughly how much the drugs would cost and if you have to get these from the clinic you are using or can you buy these independently to reduce costs, on top of this is the cost of sperm also from ESB as my clinic does not have their own bank.  Its all a little scary at the mo, just need to get my head round it all and decide whether I will do one IUI or if it is really not worth it and just proceed with IVF.

Thx for any advice, JAH


----------



## Betty-Boo

Jah - I reckon that your results are fantastic -and your clinic are trying to optimise your chances of conceiving.  With IVF at least your eggies and wrigglies get a chance to say hello and shake hands     .  I know the results for IUI are not as high as IVF ..... some take 1 or 2 goes at IUI some 6 or 7 to fall pregnant - may be more.  Once you add up these costs compared to a go at IVF - they do balance out, but this is a personal decision.  I decided to go straight for IVF as I had paid so much to import my wrigglies from ESB and thought this was the best way to get the maximum use out of them           .  If you do go for ESB - send them an email first asking for the list of availalbe donors that can be used in the UK.  Or try Xytex - an american company which also provide wrigglies for the UK.  
All the best honey - wishing you all the luck in the world x x x


----------



## GIAToo

jah - I decided to go straight for IVF because of time that I don't have!  I am a little older than you though.  I wanted to give myself the maximum chance even though I had never tried to get pregnant before.  I just looked at success rates for women my age for both IVF and IUI.  I chose the Lister because of their success with older women and through personal reccommendation.

Quick update: Only one of my eggs fertilised, the other one was too immature.  Bit disappointed, even though I know it only takes one etc.  Still, I can't believe I've got this far!! 
Keep everything crossed ladies       Shall be starting the 2WW on Thursday  

GIA Tooxx


----------



## upsydaisy

Hi Jah  

Sorry you had some difficult news  . Did your ex partner ever have any tests?  Your results seem great compared to mine! so I was wondering if maybe the problem wasn't yours.  
It really is a very personal decision which treatment you go for.  Having IUI first can't do any harm (well apart from financially  ) and in a way it may help gear you up for the far more involved process of IVF.  I know to start with I was very against the whole idea of IVF (mainly for medical reasons, mucked up hormones not benefitting from more mucking up etc etc) but once I'd given myself a trigger injection I started thinking maybe I could give it a go after all... I think go with whatever you feel most comfortable with.  I was going to have 3 IUI before rethinking.  I consoled my self with the thought that each month it didn't work I could save a bit more money towards carrying on (saving money! those were the days )
Good luck with your decision making. Whatever you decide it feels good just to be doing something
Upsy
xxx


----------



## upsydaisy

Oops GIAtoo forgot to say    big congrats on the golden eggy. Lots of      for Thursday I've got everything crossable crossed  
Upsy
xxx


----------



## Lou-Ann

GIA2, congrats on your embie.   that it is the one  

Jah, good luck with your decision making  

Lou-Ann x


----------



## bingbong

GIA2 Big congrats on your little embie, I really hope that it proves to be the one for you!    

Teela how did EC go?  

Jah, I'm sorry that your clinic have confused you about what to do next. I hope that you can decide what to do and I'm sure that it will be the best thing for you.  

bingbong x


----------



## Teela

Hi Girls,

Sorry bit late with reply, had a very early start this morn and when I eventually got home i fell asleep!!!

Congrats on Golden Egg GIA2, and best of luck with ET Thur.

AFM - 7 mature eggs collected, now I just have to wait to see if any fertilise  
so embryologist will call tomorrow. ET prob friday at moment.

thanks all
Teela
x


----------



## bingbong

Great news Teela, let us know how the phone call goes tomorrow   

bingbong x


----------



## GIAToo

Teela - hope there's lots of lurve action going on in the lab tonight!     

BB - thanks.  Looking forward to joining you on 2WW in a way...feel like I'm going nuts already     How you coping?    

Love to everyone else  
GIA too xx


----------



## lulumead

Teela and GIA2...good to hear about eggs and embies....look forward to seeing you over on the 2ww.
xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Teela great news on your eggies

GIA- best of luck with the ET
L x


----------



## Teela

Hi everyone, really good news re my eggies all seven have fertilised  
So thats the first hurdle over, thanks for all your support 

Teela
xxxx


----------



## bluprimrose

Gia too - you know i'm rooting for you!

Teela - fab news re fertilisation - wooo hooooo!

Hope everyone else is very well - sorry i haven't been able to read back very far as i'm on my phone - and at work!

I just wondered if anyone may be able to help me please?  Have any of you transferred donor wrigglies from one UK clinic to another?  I am doing it and there only seems to be one courier option which is very expensive so before I confirm it I wanted to just check if you knowledgeable lovely ladies know of any other options.

Thanks so much.

bpxx


----------



## indekiwi

BP, I moved sperm from my old clinic to my new one in October and used the courier service they arranged (rather expensive).  If you have a car, you can "borrow" one of the special cylinders used to transport things (paying a hefty deposit which you get back once you return said cylinder) and move the stuff yourself.  The only thing is, you then take the risk of the cylinder becoming damaged or whatever.  However, I know the DH of one of the ladies posting on the CRM thread moved their wrigglies over in his car and all was fine, so there are certainly people doing this.  

Good luck to GIA2 and Teela.    

A-Mx


----------



## Lou-Ann

Teela, great news re number of eggs and their fertilisation rate. Hope they continue to develop nicely for Friday   

GIA2, good luck for ET tomorrow  . See you over on the 2ww thread 

Lou-Ann x


----------



## Rose39

Teela - well done hunny! Keeping fingers crossed for continuing good news! 

GIA2 - good luck for tomorrow!!! Looking forward to seeing you on the 2WW thread! 

Rose xx


----------



## bluprimrose

Thanks inde.

Not sure if you've seen the other thread yet or not - but they were allowed to do it because it was not an anonymous donors wrigglies!

Did you pay £150?

Thanks again.

bpxx


----------



## Jammy J

Hi all,

Everyone seems to be doing so well on here and on the IUI thread, can't wait to join you all girls, really thought it was going to be this month but maybe next now. Fingers crossed!
It really threw me with the clinic recommending IVF over IUI even though I can totally understand it, as was ttc with x boyfriend for 18 months and nothing happened, we both had tests but no issues at all found on either side.  So I guess my age and quality of eggs is playing a huge factor in this.
I think my clinic charges about 2500 for IVF, can I ask all you experts how likely the drugs are likely to cost? also whether it is possible to arrange to buy your own drugs rather than buy from the clinic, I am thinking if this is allowed it may save me a few pennies.

Thx all for your support and advice,
JAH X


----------



## blueytoo

Jah - depending on what dose you need and what exact stims you are looking at anything from around £800 for low dose stims plus down reg, cyclogest etc to £1800-2000 if you need a very high dose. 

Definitely don't get direct from your clinic, ask them for a script and then call round all the numbers on the drugs thread on the main IVF board. Most likely Central Healthcare will be the cheapest as it seems to work out that way for most people but its worth trying all of them for quotes as you could save hundreds.

Claire xx


----------



## Jammy J

Thx Claire
Would these be prices if ordered from the clinic or through one of the cheaper sites?  Just trying to work out finances.. x


----------



## blueytoo

Jah - that is through a pharmacy direct not the clinic. The clinics really add premiums to the prices, I just ordered for example cyclogest from a pharmacy and it cost £45 in total for three boxes of the highest strength ones. My clinic charged me the exact same amount for one box a couple of years ago!!


----------



## Jammy J

Decision made then, will not be ordering from clinic    
Many thx JAH


----------



## lulumead

great news teela  
xx


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Jah definately shop around - my clinic was almost twice the price to local independant chemist.  I think my script works out to about £800 - after reading on here was worried it wasn't enough drugs but it seems to be their standard protocol for 1st time IVF, time will tell.

Interesting Central Homecare are one of the cheapest .... since my last visit my clinic have set up a contract with Central Homecare and  issue you with one of their prescriptions but you can only use it there, so I asked for a generic one too so I could shop around, though not got round to it yet.

Fab news Teela!

GIA too good luck for tomorrow     

Jovi x


----------



## Teela

Hello everyone

GIA2 thinking of you hope transfer goes well today  

Thanks for all the support girls, my embies are all still going and I have 6 4 cells and 1 5 cell, 1 grade one and the rest grade 2.
Transfer is tomorrow at 10am, so really early start again for me!! Hopefully I will have some frosties as well  

Hugs Teela
xx


----------



## GIAToo

Teela -  thats fab news    - keep us posted and here's some      for you xx

BP - hope you get your wrigglies transferred and it doesn't cost the earth.    

I had my little embie put back today - It was a 4 cell, bit slow for day 3 but it had gone from being a 2 cell yesterday and she said they just like to see it develop.  She said it was good one - so now it's over to my body!!     Got a bit emotional, which is apparently quite common! 

Thanks for all the lovely good luck messages!  

GIA Tooxx


----------



## Lou-Ann

Teela, great news re your embies, good luck for ET tomorrow  

GIA2, glad that ET went well for you today, hope the 2ww flies by for you  

Lou-Ann x


----------



## cocochanel1

BP, I paid about £150 to transfer donor sperm - there didn't seem to be any other option.

Teela & GIA2 - good luck

Jah, thanks for your PM - do you still want to use that clinic? If yes let me know. 

Coco xxx


----------



## bluprimrose

hello all

hope you're all very well.     - oooh how lovely to not be writing from my phone so i can actually do hugs etc.!  

please can someone pm me the details for ali's in shadwell - phone number, address etc.

thank you so much

bpxx


----------



## bingbong

i'm on my phone so no hugs from  me! BP if you go to the czech republic thread there is a thing there on getting prescriptions using scanned scripts. That has all the details there.

Good luck
Bingbong x


----------



## bluprimrose

thanks bing bong/big bog!!       .

hope you're doing ok in the 2ww madness.

lol

bpxx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Bp here are all the pharmacy nos his name is actually Yasser http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=9821.0


----------



## Damelottie

Hello leedsdancer

Yes, I think all of the single women on here have had IVF with donor sperm. 

Please ask if we can help you with anything.

LL xx


----------



## bluprimrose

thank you jj1    .

how are you?

bpxx


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Had my results back from blood tests, FSH 7 and LH 4, think that's relatively ok.  One of the immunoglobulin (sp?!) things were a bit high but GP has said nothing to worry about.  Thyroid & clotting all good    Now it's playing the waiting game, should start down regging mid April - was hoping next month but can't get time off work when I estimate EC/ET would fall.  This IVF malarky is a lot scarier than IUI   but then again IUI seemed a bit scary first time.  I thought I might pass out when the nurse showed me how they do EC  

Hope everyone is ok xxx


----------



## GIAToo

Jovigirl - EC was my favourite part of IVF 'cos you get totally looked after and get to have a little sleep too!! Being knocked out means you don't feel a thing  

JJ1 - how you doing ?   

BP - hope your plans are going well.  I worked out it would cost me a fortune to change clinics 'cos the lister would charge me that £263 "handling" fee again to "export" my sperm to another clinic.  Any money I saved would be spent on that plus more storage fees at the new clinic etc.

Hi leedsdancer - welcome  

Hi to lulumead, Ladylottie, Teela, Cocochanel, jah, fiesty and anyone I've missed.

AFM - I've kinda forgotten about me, no symptoms and feel like it's all over.    Been at work since 6.30am acting as a runner and think I've overdone it a bit  .  Oh well, gonna leave about 3pm I think.

Take care everyone  
GIA Tooxx


----------



## Lou-Ann

Jovi, good news re your results  . Tis a shame that you can't get going next month, but I'm sure that April will fly round   

GIA2,  its still early days  

Lou-Ann x


----------



## bingbong

GIA2   it ain't over until the fat lady sings (or   in this case) as I keep telling myself.  

Jovi that's great news about your bloods. I'm sure that you will get through each step of the IVF, just like you did with the IUI, and all the wonderful ladies on here will be there to help   I hope that April comes round quickly.

bp I went to m&s and they had sold out of the popcorn you told us about! I wondered if you had beaten me to it and bought them out  

bingbong x


----------



## winky77

Hey girls ....I am bumping up the IVF thread cos it's gone a bit quiet!  Had my long awaiting appt to see Dr George at CareNotts this week.  Lovely guy .....nearly had me in     when he started off by saying how sorry he was that I'd such a sad journey of unsuccessful treatment in recent years....he then went on to how he feels he can help me....basically we are talking about doing a very closely monitored immune based long protocol IVF and then doing CGH array on resulting embyros to ensure there is not a problem at that end.  There was no negativity about my age but there were obviously no guarantees either.  The biggest positive factor seems to be the volume of eggs and embyros that I have consistently produced ....i.e. gives them more to go at of course.  I really do feel that I want to give this a go.  I have to really believe it will work....and if it doesn't then it draws a pretty conclusive line under keeping going with my own eggs.  But it is not cheap.....and it will be the most expensive gamble I have taken yet.  Time to start counting the £££s, losing some more lbs and getting my diary sorted! 

lol
..Winky


----------



## Felix42

Winky, that's great news. Sounds very promising!  When will you be starting?  I have everything crossed for you.

Love and hugs, Felix xx


----------



## midnightaction

*winky* Just sneaking on here quickly to say how glad I am that your consult went well and your gonna be having a full on no holds bared cycle with everything thrown at it 

When to you think you will be able to cycle ?

Would be interested to hear what they said to you about CGH and what the results are like for it at present

Sarah xxx


----------



## Damelottie

Winky - its does sound very positive. I also have everything possible crossed for you


----------



## winky77

Thanks girls.....I've just been working out my diary and its all got a bit complicated as my AF came 4 days early when its normally like clockwork....so all my juggling trying not to book work in when it might clash with TTC has not quite worked!  I'm also trying not to be my usual impatient self and rush things....and as Dr G said to me.....another couple of months isnt going to make any difference.    Hence I think I am going to wait to the cycle after next ....so end of may would be about the right time! 

..Winky


----------



## bingbong

Winky I'm so pleased that your appointment went well, I'd been wondering how you'd got on. Hope that you can sort things work wise.

I just wanted to ask if anyone knew about Merional or Bravelle, drugs for IVF that are cheaper than gonal f? Stepan has suggested that I try IVF next but money is a concern so he suggested these drugs, I've not heard of them and from google then don't seem to have another name that I have heard of, so wondered if anyone has used them and knows how muchish they cost.

Also I saw my GP today and I'm going to have my FSH and LH retested, he told me to get them done on CD8, which seems far too late to me. I questioned it and he said that it was important not to get them done too early. What do you guys think?

Thanks
bingbong x


----------



## GIAToo

Bingbong - Sorry that you are having to consider IVF as I know how hard it is from a financial point of view.    I can't help you with the drugs I'm afraid as I have never heard of them.  As for FSH/LH tests, I have always been told they chould be done on days 2-5.   

Winky - glad you had such a positive appointment, i think it really helps pyschologically when someone in the profession is so positive for you.    Good luck with your next cycle   and   it is your time  

AFM - had my follow-up on Thursday and not so good.  He has given me an 8% chance of success with my OE and wants me to do exactly the same protocol   which I just don't get.  Also saw my GP today and they are not paying for any more drugs.  Had a brilliant chat with the counsellor at the Lister about DE and she told me not to rush, however I have asked Stepan to add me to the DEgg and Dembryo waiting lists.  Also asked his advice about OE IVF and he said he would put me on the Short antagonist protocol - he was fab and responded to my email within about an hour!  I am also emailing Penny @ Serum.  AF is due Wed and I am therefore self-inflicting some pressure on myself about starting another OEIVF, but if I don't take the pill first I can start on Day 21, so I really should relax!!!  

Lots of love to everyone else on here   
Take care 
GIA Tooxx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

BB -   and sorry to hear of your recent BFN. After just 2 IUI at a relatively young age, it seems a little odd that you are being advised to move to IVF. Does Stepan give a reason for this? Of course the success rates for IVF are much higher and if it worked first time you would probably save money in the long run (although IUI at Reprofit is so cheap it's harder to make the step there I think - here in the UK the cost of IUI is so high that you sometimes feel you may as well move to IVF rather than do 2 or 3 more IUI)
Guess it partly comes down to how many times you feel you can go through IUI and the dreaded 2ww...afterall couples take 6-8 months on average to conceive, so if you look at it that way, you still have a good 4-6 tries left of IUI before you move on to IVF. Maybe ask Stepan why he's recommending IVF already?
Can't help re the drugs I'm afraid, I've always been on Puregon.
Oh, and pretty sure LH/FSH must be done on days 2-5, so ignore your GP!

GIAToo - sorry to hear your follow up wasn't too helpful. My clinic also kept me on the same protocol for 3 attempts saying it was just 'bad luck' it hadn't worked before. With the benefit of hindsight I can see that I should have been more proactive and challenging of them - after all if something hasn't worked, why do it again? Sounds like you are completely on top of things with exploring other avenues though, so best of luck with all that

Winky - meant to call at weekend but ended up de-cluttering my flat instead...took longer than expected (where does all that 'stuff' come from?!) - let's chat soon but glad it all went well at Care

Suitcase
x


----------



## Roo67

BB - sorry for your recent BFN. 
I used Merional for my final 2-3 iui's alongside clomid, not sure how much I paid for it but the current price in the national drugs formulary is 75 units , net price per vial (with solvent) = £13.95; 150 units,  net price per vial (with solvent) = £27.90. 

Never heard of Bravelle and it is not listed, so may not be available in the UK

R x


----------



## bingbong

Thanks for looking the drugs up Roo   interesting that you took Merional alongside clomid. I did wonder if they are cheaper than gonal f why they aren't used more often and the only thing that I can think of is because they don't work as well, and if you needed it alongside clomid maybe that's true. I'll ask Stepan. 

Suity when I told him the IUI didn't work that's what he suggested. I've told him that money is tight and I can only afford one IVF cycle and he still thinks that's what I should do next. Tbh I'm not sure how many more IUIs I could do anyway, trying to sort the time off work and someone to look after my dogs is a nightmare. And although they are very cheap the odds aren't great. I'm not sure what I'll do yet, will see what the new lot of blood tests come back as.

Thanks for confirming that I'm not   about the blood tests  

I'd be interested to hear why others moved on from IUI to IVF  if anyone is happy to share  

bingbong x


----------



## Fraggles

Hi All

Thought I'd pop on say Hi to y'all.

Bing, you obviously have a lot to think about and good on you for sorting things out.

My mum made me laugh she bought me some size 14 pyjamas - just in case I get 'bigger'. I am hoping this is a lucky charm and it means come the end of April I will have a glorious BFP assuming my iui happens next month.

Sorry to ask the same old question what are good cheap travel site to book accommodation through please where if you have to amend dates you don't get charged. I am going to have to fly at easter and don't want problems of getting a hotel!

F x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

I guess I moved on from IUI to IVF (after 2 unmedicated and 1 medicated IUI) because I was nearly 38,  felt like time was running out - clinic quoted 1-12% success with IUI, 35-40% ish with IVF, so felt like the odds so much better with IVF. Plus was paying around £1000 for IUI in London so didn't feel like good value for money with such a low success rate
Almost impossible to know what to do for the best, you could be really lucky like kylekitten and others and find that the switch to IVF brings immediate success....or you could be like me and others who go through IVF after IVF with no success and some of us even end up going back to IUI as potentially a better option for 'older' women....
Success rates are def higher with IVF but of course the costs are much higher - so you have to weigh that up. And of course as you say, the regular IUIs are stressful too in terms of time and the emotional investment in the dreaded 2WW...

Best of luck with the decision making process, it's all so hard sometimes  
Suitcase
x


----------



## lulumead

Hi BB

I did 3 natural IUI's then had a horrendous HyCosy done where my tubes went into spasm and they couldn't say if my tubes were blocked or not. I then changed clinic who seemed pretty confident that IVF would work for me...1st attempt biochemical...and then 2 attempts which haven't worked. Due to money I thought I might switch back to IUI as much cheaper and I could do 3 goes at IUI for every IVF attempt, and my consultant at the moment can't say why its not working and its probably just a matter of time! hmmmm....

Anyway, I had a HSG and as my tubes were clear decided to go back to IUI where I am going to give myself 6 goes and then reevaluate. i think with IUI it can sometimes be about holding your nerve....in the US they seem to do way more IUI's before going to IVF whereas in this country it seems standard to switch after three.  I had heard somewhere that you need to give it at least 6 natural or 4 medicated goes to really see if it can work!!!! 

Not sure if this is helpful at all.  I didn't find the switch from IUI to IVF too difficult but having switched back, it is nice to not be taking so many drugs and I never really did that high an amount  

xxxx


----------



## bingbong

Thank you so much to those who have shared their experience, it has been really interesting to read and has given me lots to think about   

Lulu I haven't had my tubes checked, figured that I am low risk and apparently only about 5% of women have blocked tubes anyway so thought I'd risk it. I did ask my GP to refer me over a year ago and they refused   but suddenly I feel like I need to get them checked if I'm going to have any more IUIs. I saw a different Dr today and he was lovely and will refer me to the local fertility clinic for tests but first I have to get fresh blood test done, which means I won't be referred for a month and then I'll have to wait however long for the appointment   

It's so hard to know what to do!!! Something in me is saying to move on from IUIs but I'm not sure if that is just the impatient part of me talking  

Lou good to hear that you used Merional with great success   can I ask how much it cost you for a cycle? I'm not really sure how many vials you need and with or without solvents to work out Roos prices  


bingbong x


----------



## lulumead

Hi BB, I totally understand your impatience to get going...I never thought it would be 18 months after 1st going to a clinic that I'd still be trying to get pregnant, and in total I've had 7 interventions of one kind or another. Maybe you could continue IUI's whilst investigating IVF so you don't have to wait months. The thing with IVF is that you can't really do them back to back so each attempt if you need more then one is more like a 3 month experience before you can go again!  So could end up taking longer, unless you get lucky quickly...and someone has to  , so why not you!
I never believed my tubes were blocked, I had no reason to believe that they would be and in retrospect I wish I had just had them checked again and stayed doing IUI's instead of moving to IVF.  At my age, and I am 5 years older than you so that does make a difference, its really a numbers game and IUI's offer more chances as less expensive.  Always good to have bloods done and see if that points you into any particular direction.
You could always do a go at IVF and switch back to IUI if you need to.
xxx


----------



## bingbong

Thanks Lou, that helps a lot   and does seem cheap compared to what I've heard IVF drugs generally come to. 

Lulu if I do IVF I'd like to do it June/July time so maybe if my cycle fitted with work I could do a couple of IUIs before then. I guess that part of me thinks that with the IUIs, and especially the second one which I think was better timed, I had great sperm (20 million, over 90% motility) so it should have worked and as it didn't something must be wrong. I know that's rubbish and as has been said it can easily take six months of trying for a couple, I guess I'm just inpatient. But do I do more IUIs without knowing that my tubes are clear? I should ask Stepan if there is a reason he is suggesting IVF other than that it has higher success rates. 

Hopefully the blood tests will point me in the right direction because right now I'm changing my mind about every five minutes  


bingbong x


----------



## Fraggles

Hi Bing

Did you see your dr today about your hsg??

I'd say get your tubes checked with hsg - it's one more thing to get the clear about which takes you closer to your wish and then you can confidently go on to next stage knowing your tubes are clear.

How are you?

F x


----------



## acrazywench

Bingbong - if you're worried about the delay/wait for getting your tubes checked, you could have a hycosy done privately. I'm sure you would be able to get it done at a clinic here even if you're not having your fertility treatment with them. (It's not the most fun thing I've ever done, but it was good to know in advance of IUI that my tubes were clear.) 

x


----------



## GIAToo

Bingbong - I am getting my tubes checked - I have been given the name of a place in St John's Wood and I'm calling them tomorrow so I'll let you know the cost and how quickly I can get booked in if you like?  I'm thinking about doing IUI a few times before moving on to DE for reasons too complicated to explain here, but anyway, let me know.
GIA Tooxx


----------



## Annaleah

Bingbong - big decisions to make, and juggling work and finances is so difficult.  Regarding getting your tubes checked - it is usually fairly quick to get HSG or HyCoSy done at any clinic, as others have said, and I think HyCoSy is usually cheaper.  The two clinics i've been with wouldn't proceed with IUI without this being done which makes sense from a risk point of view.  

I moved onto IVF because the clinic I was with did not offer unmedicated IUI.  Because of the PCOS I had a high ovarian response to even the smallest dose of Gonal-f (37.5 iu alternate days) where I had about 27 follies in total and 5 were of good enough size to contain mature egg.  This was too many for IUI but potentially not enough to transfer to IVF cycle.  I was gutted at having to abandon my first cycle and there were not guarantees that things could be supressed enough for subsequent attempts to avoid cycles being abandoned. This was why I switched to IVF but clinic did decide to down reg first so they could take greater control of stimming (even then I had silly follie numbers).  Just a potential thing to bear in mind re the PCOS as some women to have quite a high response, so tx protocol may need to be adjusted accordingly.

I keep changing my mind...almost in a daily basis  and am still no closer to knowing what to do!  Also applying for jobs and have no guarantee that future employer will be as supportive as my current one!  

Wish you well with you decision.  Annaleah xx


----------



## sweet1

can I ask a really basic question - what can cause blocked tubes? if you've never been 'promiscuous' or had any fertility problems surely that is unlikely?

Sorry if I'm being dumb, but maybe I should have it done as well?


----------



## Annaleah

Hi Sweet SA , yes I think it is unlikely  I was told that most common causes are STDs such as PID and Chlamydia, but can also be caused by previous miscarriage other adhesions, endometriosis. It just so happened that the clinics i have been with both required proof of my tubal patency so I had to have the test before starting tx. 
AL xxx


----------



## cocochanel1

BB, it is a really hard decision.
I regret changing from IUI to IVF. I have PCO and after3 failed IUI's was told the donor sperm I had purchased was no good for IUI and therefore IVF was the best option. In hindsight I should have binned the donor sperm and stuck with IUIs. I've had OHSS 3 times which is a risk with PCO/PCOS. Dr Sher also believes that PCO/PCOS women need a different IVF protocol (and he believes that my treatment hasn't worked either due to the poor sperm or due to the IVF protocol killing off the embryo's). However I never really got to the bottom of exactly what protocol he would put me on because he of course only wanted to get into the specifics if I was going to SIRM.

I am now moving back to IUI after a wasted 12 months of 4 IVF cycles and and £30k down in terms of treatment costs. I'm almost certain I would have conceived had I used good sperm and had back to back IUIs - even if it had taken 12 IUIs that would still have cost me almost £20K less overall.........

So all I would say is think carefully and research fully before moving on to IVF. It seems to me IVF is the easy answer for a clinic to give plus it makes them a lot of money!

Good luck with whatever you decide. Coco xxx


----------



## blueytoo

Bingbong - as I understand from Stepan, he tends to advise IVF simply because it raises the chances of success and he wants people to get pregnant as soon as they can. I would definitely suggest getting your tubes checked as well as a full pelvic scan if you've not had one. If you're tubes aren't clear it would also interfere with the likelihood of IVF working too, so whichever treatment route you decide on it can only be a good thing to have it all checked out. Some people here have flown to Reprofit to have this done as even with flights etc I understand it is a lot cheaper than paying privately here. Unless of course you can manage to get it all done on the NHS.

I swapped to IVF from IUI because my son was already almost 6 by the time I had two failed IUI's and I really wanted to keep the age gap as low as possible! I'm still here now though and he is 12! Also by that point, way back in 2003, the donor sperm costs were rising too as the shortage was starting to kick in. Like Lou, I also wanted to donate eggs so it seemed like a good idea to swap to IVF. After five IVF's, I have swapped back to IUI this month purely so that I could have some treatment this year whilst waiting for my next cycle and also because IUI helps to prevent an auto-immune flare from being so bad.

I think if you get the all clear from having your tubes checked, then it makes sense to carry on with IUI. Remember that a couple would take 6-12 attempts at getting pregnant naturally which is equivalent to more IUI's as obviously they would be having sex more than once a month. So 6-12 months of trying naturally is more like 12 IUI's. Also the stats show that accumalative IUI's increased your chances, so numbers 4-6 will be more likely to work. As someone else pointed out in the States it is more usual to have up to 12 IUI's with injectables before moving on to IVF.

Good luck with your decision!

Claire xx


----------



## GIAToo

Bingbong - I called the company recommended to me for HyCosy and they said to check "tubes and cavity" would be £350.  You call them to book on the first day of your AF and they like to do it between days 7 and 12 of your cycle.  I asked my clinic about it today too and it costs £800 there!     The company is Clinical Diagnostic Services and their number is 020 7483 3611. Just in case you were interested. 

I have just had a call from the consultant at the Lister to say he would support me in whatever I want - so I have asked to do the Flare protocol and changed from Menopur to Gonal F as it makes more sense to me.  I know some women who say that Menopur is better, but there are others who have tried every protocol and it's made no difference whatsoever.  For me, psychologically I have to change the protocol otherwise I would go into the cycle with a very negative view.  I still haven't quite decided what I'm going to do, but AF due tomorrow and I do kinda want to get going asap.  He also said he'd support me with IUI if I chose that, so I just generally feel happier.  He said my chances with IUI were only 3-5%, but if I gave it three goes who knows!  I'm going a bit    here you can probably tell! 

 everyone
GIA Tooxx


----------



## Felix42

GIAT, wishing you lots of     for your upcoming treatment!

Those hycosy costs sound pretty reasonable.  I had mine done about 2 1/2 years ago now and it was £450 then.  Bingbong, do hope you can come up with a decision that you are comfortable with re IUI vs IVF.  You are still a youngster  so a few more IUIs could do the trick.  Equally though, bringing out the big guns of IVF could bring a quicker result and frosties for siblings all being well and the timing of treatment would be so much more manageable (altho you'd need to be in Brno for longer of course).    

Winky, not long now!   

Love and hugs, Felix xx


----------



## bingbong

It's so confusing to know what to do!! It seems that most of you agree that I shouldn't give up on IUI quite yet though. So from deciding that was it and I'm done with IUI I'm now thinking of going again this cycle    Only cos it works timing wise. Today is cd1 so I could fly out on friday (cd11) and back sunday (13), therefore missing no work (don't work fridays). But it would mean going without having my tubes checked, but I do think I'm low risk but it's still a risk. There is no way I can go in April or May. I think that I've twisted my mum's arm into looking after my dogs. 

So, should I risk it and go? If I doesn't work then I think I'd do IVF in the summer, but maybe I'd change my mind again   especially if my GP referred me for an HSG (GIA2 thanks for posting about the Hycosy, good price and down the road from me, maybe we can meet when you come for yours?!). 

Bluey I think you are right and Stepan is suggesting IVF because of the higher success rates, I keep asking him what I can do to increase the chance of IUI working so he probably figured that was important to me   

So, maybe I should leave the IVF board as I might be back to IUIs, but you have all been great and reading your stories and thoughts has really helped, so I'd really apprecaite   on what you think I should do about going this month?

bingbong x


----------



## lulumead

go for it...timings work, so you have nothing to lose    
xxx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

for what it's worth I think you should go this month - give it 3 tries of IUI, it's cheap and you have the time, so why not? 

then if it doesn't work you can use April/May to get yourself sorted for IVF, find the cheapest drugs etc, and go out in perhaps June or July for an IVF cycle...

But at the end of the day, it's your decision hun, so if you think going straight to IVF is a better bet, then go for it!

Suitcase
x


----------



## cocochanel1

Go!!!!!!!!
Coco xxx


----------



## Felix42

Going gets the vote from me too!  The timings right and I'm sure your tubes are fine. 
    Which dates would it be so I can add you to the abroadies front page?

Love and hugs, Felix xx


----------



## bingbong

YAY!!!   you lot are too wonderful for words. If my mother agrees to the dogs (which she better now!) I'll go   I hope that it's the right thing to do, emotionally I don't feel too strong after the whole BFP then BFN thing   but hopefully moving on will help. I'll fly out the 26th March and back on the 28th Felix. Right, need to get Stepan to send me a prescription for a trigger shot and find out how to get to Ali  

bingbong x


----------



## lulumead

great news...and I agree about tubes really unlikely to be blocked...and you can always get them checked at a later date if you need to, crossing fingers that you don't!
xx


----------



## Lou-Ann

BB, glad that you have decided to go again this cycle .   its the one for you 

Lou-Ann x


----------



## sweet1

BB I think you are right to give it another shot. And stay away from the Frst Respionse this time!

For what it's worth, easier said than done I know, but i think you shuld try and relax and not even think about testing at all, till OTD. Easy for me to say I know, but I think it would make things less stressful for you, if you can try and focus on other things in the 2WW and try and stay as chilled as possible. I hope this helps.

SA xx


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

BB glad you've decided to go again  

Hycosy is def worth considering - my clinic would not treat without it.  I think it was Blueytoo said about damaged tubes also having an impact during IVF - in my case I had a hydro and it would probably have prevented implantation / caused early m/c.  No reason to suspect anything wrong with mine at the time .... never had an STD that I know of but they said the operation to remove my appendix when I was 8 could have been the cause.  That said, they didn't actually pick it up on the hycosy, they thought it was an ovarian cyst, it took a lap to find out it was my tube  

Hopefully you won't have time to even think about it as a BFP is coming your way this time round    

Good luck everyone else ..... time is ticking by slowly here, will hopefully start d/regging late April
Love
Jovi x


----------



## Annaleah

BB - good to hear that you're all set to go again.  I definately have some regret about going straight into IVF after one abandoned IUI and wish i had given IUI more of a chance and it will probably be my next plan when I resume treatment later this year for simialr reasons to Coco. 
Fingers crossed that the next cycle brings good news
Annaleah xx


----------



## bubs5469

Hi Ladies,

I am looking to IVF early part of next year using a sperm donor as I have severe endo have had for 14 years and now i am running out of time at 23!

Please read the article below it explains more about my situation!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8534810.stm

Has anyone else gone forward with this? If so would love to hear from you as emotionally i am finding this really hard and also dealing with peoples comments and opinions are really difficult to! xx

/links


----------



## Chowy

HI Bubs,

I also have endo (severe stage 3) havve had 6 operations, been on Zoladex injections, then contraceptive pill back to back 3 mths at a time.  I actually went undiagnossed from age 14-30 and was in tremendous pain and was dismissed by one gynie as 'it is all in your head'.  IVF is your best bet as IUI may not work as with endo there is a lining which covers the ovaries which can act as a contraceptive and obviously IVF bypasses this.  I am also due a premature menopause.

I had my son in May 09 and prior to that I was told that I would most likely never be able to conceive a baby. I have never received any negative comments, and people are generally intrigued rather than judgemental.  Majority of people tell me they are very proud of me for not just acception what life threw at me or say that I am a very brave person. It is hard work with my son as a single person, however, life would be much harder without him.

Best of luck.
Chowy xx


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Hi Ladies,

I have a quick question, trying to remember everything from my consultation    When we discussed freezing (assuming I'm lucky enough) is it right that day 3 embies defrost more successfully than blasts?  If going to blasts would it be reasonable to ask clinic to freeze some on day 3 and try to take the rest to blast?

Thanks all
Jovi x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

jovi I cna't help as I have never made it to blasts but just wanted to wish you well
L x


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Thanks JJ1 - have you received any news from CRM?  I keep looking out for some good news   xx


----------



## Mifi

Hi guys

May be joining you here very soon   that is if this 2WW ends with a BFN as it is my last IUI for a while. Taking the plunge with IVF again even though it does make me so ill but hopefully I can avoid a hospital stay this time  

I have applied for egg sharing at Care in Nottingham and had all the blood tests already   talk about multi tasking    I have my next IUI basting tomorrow  

  to all

Love FM XXXXXXXXXX


----------



## Annaleah

Jovi - I think you're right about blasts being less successful to thaw as they have a higher fluid content which makes the thaw process more difficult (that's what I was told).  My clinic froze embies at the pronucleat (??sp) stage which is day one as they felt there were better thaw rates with this but I think it's fairly common practice to freeze on D3. So difficult, as I have read stories of a BFP from one frozen blast.....

Am I right in thinking you are about to start DR'ing in a few weeks?  Hopefully, once you start stimming and have egg collection you'll have a better idea of embie numbers...though it is so difficult thinking about stuff re freezing/ going to blast at that stage.  Will have fingers crossed for you
Annaleahx


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

I think I'm going to have to postpone  

I'm having some major wobbles at the moment and not confident I can afford this  - I can't go into it without be sure I will be able to keep a roof over our heads.  I have played with the entitled to website but it is making little sense.  It's childcare that's the fly in the ointment - by the time I've paid my mortgage & household bills there just isn't £600 left to cover it, and family taking care of LO is not an option.  I've managed to keep pretty much debt free so my only commitment that concerns me is mortgage - moving back to parents is out of the question or I would do it like a shot if it made the difference between treatment and no treatment.  I don't need a lot to live on, but I need a roof over our heads!  I tried to phone the tax credits people last week - not helpful at all!!!  I can't work out if it's money earnt or hours worked that makes a difference    I'm not on a big wage but would not get enough to cover childcare according to the calculator  

Typically after last months AF blip I'm all on track with dates etc to fall where I'd want them to!  On with the thinking cap and calculator to see what I can come up with!

Jovi x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Jovi - only you know what's right for you hun and if you feel you must postpone, then that's what you should do. BUT, do remember that people quite often don't have all the answers when they start out, and then somehow it all falls into place, and if we waited to be 100% sure we could afford it etc, then many of us would never go ahead. I know it's not easy, and having a roof over your head is of course first priority, but I hope you can work things out...especially as the dates seem to be spot on this month
Thinking of you


----------



## sweet1

Jovigirl I really hope you can find a way forward and that you don't have to postpone.

I know you can claim up to 80 per cent of childcare costs but not sure how easy it is to work this out. 

It is very hard I know but you are pretty much the same age as me and I would hate to have to postpone. I think things always work out somehow. I know that's a pretty flippant thing to say but I just hope you can find a way forward.  since the dates are perfect it would be a shame if you couldn't give it a shot.  

Anyway only you know what's best, so good luck with whatever you decide.

xx


----------



## Fraggles

Jovigirl

I'd suggest contacting a local citizen's advice bureau and asking them what you'd be entitled to. Those government websites are confusing and I pity the public sector workers because there is so much legislation on benefit entitlements it is so confusing. Don't give up yet there will be a way. But good luck at working things out. Would you still plan to work? If you are unemployed I think they would also meet your rent or interest on your mortgage - you may want to check it out.

I also have the wobbles about how will I cope, how will the finances stretch but I think when you are pregnant a new determination to make things work that you didn't know exist turn up. I don't know what you do but I read the lady who set up the web business net a porter set it up when she was pregnant and sold it for £50m this week. Someone who was on secret millionaire said when his kids were born he set up a taxi business as he needed the money to support them and to leave them something. What i am saying is I think we find resources we never knew were there.

You are so responsible I know you would work it out.

Lots of love and good luck with working things out.

F x


----------



## lulumead

Hi Jovi,

Fraggles suggestion of contacting Citizens advice is a good one, I have no idea how the entitled website works and I've tried to play around with it a couple of times.

Not sure if its possible for you to have a lodger in your house for extra income?? Or rent out your place and then rent something cheaper to live in with bubs??  Sell up and buy something smaller....I know none of these are very sensible options but they might be last resorts which mean you can still go ahead. It really is childcare that is the total killer but you can definitely get some of this paid through tax relief....although who knows what will happen post 6 May!!!!!!!

Big   , hope you can find a way forward that feels possible. Even the fact that you are thinking this through means that you would ensure that your child was looked after.
xx


----------



## ♥Jovial♥

Big thank you everyone    

Hopefully I will figure something out - or hopefully get my "somehow it will all work out" hat back on    It's all very well me doing this now, if IUI had worked I'd have a 6 month bump    Part of it might be the move to IVF - is taking the last of my money so is also the last go for a while    

Feeling quite isolated from everyone too - no-one to talk it through with - feels like I need to chat more with someone who knows me rather than counselling IYKWIM.  Mums the one I'd normally go to with something major but this is the one thing we just can't discuss.

Suity that is the exact approach I need to get back!  I didn't have it all worked out when I done IUI but got to the point where I knew I couldn't have it all worked out but somehow I'd managed.  It just seems to have been replaced with fear 

Sweet SA 80% sounds a lot better than the silly figure I was looking at earlier!

Thanks fraggles    I do intend to work but will consider not doing so for a while if at all possible.  It would be my dream to be a stay at home mum, if only for a while.

Lulu I'm too antisocial to consider a lodger    I do have a spare room but that's hopefully the nursery - can't really downscale to anything cheaper or I would def consider it - I'm in a 2 up 2 down so can't really go a lot smaller - not with the dog/cats/fish/baby  

You are all truely wonderful, and yet again have pulled me from the pit of despair I manage to overthink myself into      

Love & hugs
Jovi x


----------



## Fraggles

Jovi

I do counselling as a living and have seen about 5/6 clients over a year who didn't have a child and left it too late. I am also seeing those who are now in a quandry because they're of child bearing age and don't have a partner and think they have to give up their plan. This is not an area I focus on attracting clients for I should add so it is a coincidence. I would prefer you not to become one of them.

I forget what IYKWIM - can you remind me please.

Jovi, is there anything you could do at home when baby comes along? Have you got stuff you could sell on ebay - a friend of mine makes loads on ebay. We are a resourceful lot and will come up with a plan for you.

I want you to have your dream.

F x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Jovi -I am so sorry that you are having  a wobble, I really hope that you work things out.

L x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Jovi - sounds a bit to me like very normal pre-tx wobbles...we all get them   
Am sure you'll work something out, there's always a way....best of luck
Suitcase
x


----------



## blueytoo

Jovi - the entitled to website is very accurate and easy to use. Tax credits are quite simple. Everyone with a child earning up to £50k a year will get something - at that level it is usually just the basic £40 a month. To get the maximum amount you must be working 30 hours or more a week. All you need to do is put in all your details in to the entitled to website and it tells you how much Working Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit you will get. It asks you how much you pay in child care fees too so have that figure handy.

Could you consider switching your mortgage to an interest only mortgage for a few years as there are some amazing deals available at the moment? You might want to wait until after the election though as the base rate can't stay as low as it is.


----------



## Sharry

New home http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=233902.0


----------

