# Adoption Orders



## Frangipanii (Nov 21, 2011)

Hi Social workers have said we can wait till they have all paper work ready to send in or we can send in the application and their paper work can follow. They have said their preference would be to send it in altogether but we are not sure as they never stick to time scales and have previously messed us about. They have said that it is best practise to wait for second review but that it is up to us! Is there any benefit to this or not! They have fed us lines before so we are quite on edge about it all! 
We have no idea. Anyone tell me what they did to get theirs or what they would suggest for us to do? Please. 
By the way....things are going ok and we are fairly settled now!


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## Greeniebop is a mummy (Jan 17, 2010)

Hi fran. We submitted ours to LOs SW pretty much the first day we were allowed to. That was 3 weeks ago. SW emailed to say she had sent it to legal and it had been checked and was going straight to court. I emailed this week to chase up and discovered that legal hadn't raised the cheque so it was still sat in someone's in tray. It was delivered that day. Gutted as we were really hoping to get a date before christas. Can't advise you what to do but thought I'd share our experience. All the best x


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## Miny Moo (Jan 13, 2011)

We didn't put our AO paper work in for well over a year as we needed things sorted out before, but my advice would be if you are read I would send your bit into court if the LA are bad at time scales as our sons SW was always missing paperwork, when you put it into court they are given so long by the court to do it and they have to do it by that date, in our case our sons SW was given 12 weeks to do it and he left it right yo the lady minute!!


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## MummyAuntieKatie (Oct 18, 2012)

We completed what we could and handed it to BB's SW coincidentally at our second LAC review, I think it was about the 3 and a half month stage.  She has some bits to complete then will submit to the court but I appreciate I may have to keep on her back a bit…


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## Frangipanii (Nov 21, 2011)

Thanks Ladies. You have helped enormously!! We are going to submit asap.....so this leads me to the next question. How do you do it? How do you get the paper work, is it complicated and can we do it with out the social worker. Anything else we need to know.  The kids hate their visits and we dont need any more support and if we do we will access it privately! 
Thanks again! 
Xxx


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## skyblu (Sep 9, 2010)

Our SW gave us the relevant forms at the 3 month Lac review meeting which was at nearly 5 months in  It was a bit daunting, so she came out to help us fill in bits that we didn't understand, we didn't understand most of it as it was not relevant to us!! Any way our SW and ourselves completed our forms in August, Lo's SW only finished hers and sent all paper work into the courts in October. Apparently it was delayed because lo's bf probation officer was delaying singing the paper work, without this signature the paper work would of been sent back and would cause further delay.
If I was you and you have a faster way of doing the AO then do it.

Good luck
Skyblu.xxx


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

Fran, one thing to bear in mind is that before the AO Social Services have a much bigger obligation to you than they do after the AO, when you're basically left high and dry. While they're looked after children it is _much_ easier to get any help you need in terms of support and advice from professionals for you and hubby, and direct support for your children if necessary. I understand the desire to get the AO, however given I know your children have had some difficulties it may be better to think realistically about what ongoing support you and they may need and get that in place before putting any application in for the AO.

All the best,

Wyxie xx


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## Frangipanii (Nov 21, 2011)

Thanks.  Skyblu I think I will ring sw and get her help!
Wyxie..totally see what you are saying but I am confused as to what help they can give. We do have access to a psychologist for three years although at a distance (LA) is very far away but other than that what can they help with? I do take on board your thoughts of course but I am confused as to what they could offer. 
Xxx


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

Social Worker could make referrals to services in your area, play therapy, mental health (which in our area includes a psychiatrist who deals specifically with adoption issues and advisers families, so parents of young children), it really varies.  A social worker referral for a looked after child will get attention.  If you're having issues you should diarise, get your SW and the child's SW involved, and get them out to talk to you about what they can do for you.  Just because your kids came from out of area, it doesn't mean your child can't access local services, and their SW can make referrals/contact professionals etc.

If you think your kids will have ongoing behaviour/attachment or other needs, then you should discuss what you're doing and what other help may be available to you to make it work better.  All in very positive we're coping SS ******** language of course.

If you want to talk about what help we accessed (and it does vary from area to area) in more detail, drop me an email or message.  But, AO can come in time, a few months here or there is nothing to get the right help.  We're still receiving the help I battled for pre-AO and now Wyxling is involved with mental health services, they'll keep her name on their records even if we take a break from therapy.  At the moment she gets play therapy and we also get support from therapist and psychologists.  We've had involvement with a child psychiatrist before as well who specialised in attachment issues, at a local hospital, and that referral was almost impossible to get without SS involvement.  I hope we can gradually step away from it, but for a time at least the option will be there to check in, or go back, and if needed they can then pass us on for direct support for Wyxling as she gets older and is talking better.

I called post adoption support and asked what they could do given Wyxling's situation, a while after Bladelet was placed, and the answer was basically, we could get you in touch with other adopters so you have someone to talk to.  It was pretty much nothing, essentially, I'd have had to go through school/GP channels and getting a referral there is hard, will go via CAMHS, and they don't like to take young kids and will almost always decline a referral for toddlers.

I don't know whether you think there's anything that you need to help you on an ongoing basis, but if you're not sure, then it's at least worth having the conversation.

Best wishes,

Wyxie xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie (Oct 18, 2012)

You can download the forms from the court service online, I googled Adoption Order application:

I think it was here&#8230; https://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/HMCTS/GetForm.do?court_forms_id=1082

We didn't find it too bad to complete but we didn't have all the relevant info to hand so BB's SW is finishing it off.


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## MummyElf (Apr 11, 2013)

We were told to submit them at our second review but then they cancelled it as the reviewing officer is on sick leave. Our SW told us to get the papers in so I've sent them to LOs SW and asked her to send them off but I think she's trying to hold on to them until we get another review date so we're going to keep chasing her. We were really annoyed as our review was the only one they didn't get cover for but given we're starting another placement imminently this is going to get messy as our children ended up under different LAs so it's different SWs for each etc and we'd really wanted our daughter's legal adoption fully in hand before embarking on our son's. Don't get me started


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## Frangipanii (Nov 21, 2011)

Wyxie.....I take on board what you say. In fact I am grateful that you summed it all up for me. However it has really helped me realise thzt I just want to get on with it! If we need help in the future then we would either do it privately or wait. And we do have a psychologist for three years if not close geographically! Thank you for thr advice. It really helped. 
MummyAuntieKate....thanks we will get on with it ourselves! Thanks for the link. 
Mummyelf...thanks and sorry you are being messed around. Good luck with your next placement. Your story helps me wanna just get on with it!!!
Thanks all...we are going to get it done!!!!  X xx


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

I completely understand the desire to get on with it.  Despite being pushed to apply for the AO, Bladelet's SW has still been given 10 weeks to complete her part of the report (and she's asked me to write most of it anyway, after all that) so with local court waiting times, we're going to be looking at March/April next year before we get the AO at the earliest, so another 6 months or so of SS visits etc.  I really do just want SS out our lives so we can get on with being a family without them hanging over us.

All the best,

Wyxie xx


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## Frangipanii (Nov 21, 2011)

Thats it isnt. Yes we are a family through adoption but still a family..visits are stressful for everyone especially the children. It would be great if we could just get on with it! Sick of bloody social workers...lol. weird considering. 
Hope yours comes through faster than you think! X


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## MummyAuntieKatie (Oct 18, 2012)

I found out this morning that BB's SW submitted our form to court yesterday, 11 November, so I'll keep you updated with the timescales.  I really want to get his passport for a visit to Spain next Spring, so fingers crossed! xx


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## Frangipanii (Nov 21, 2011)

Mak we are the same we want to go abroad next year! Very frustrating!!! 

Can anyone tells me if we have to pay the court fees or does the LA pay them? And do you know how much they are for a sibling group! 
Xxx


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## -x-Lolly-x- (Feb 3, 2012)

We have been told we have to pay the £170 court fee but we can claim it back through the placing authority. I don't know if that is standard or we just got lucky...?


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## Flash123 (Jan 29, 2006)

Ours is paid for....when the sw eventually submits it!!!! Xx


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## peacelily (Feb 24, 2006)

MummyElf - same here. We paid but will be reimbursed by placing authority. Timescale-wise, we submitted our application at the end of October, and heard this week that the first hearing will be mid-December. However, a friend of ours submitted her app a month earlier, heard back within 3 days and will have had both hearings and the celebration by Christmas. The Court backlog varies hugely   


Peacelily xx


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

Court fees are per application not per child, so it's just the one fee no matter how many children.  Timescales vary massively depending on Court.  When I was still working a couple of years back, one of our local family Courts used to take 4-5 months to list routine hearings due to their backlog, the others were normally around 6-8 weeks.  County Courts normally take longer than Family Proceeding Courts.  Some cases may also take longer if they have been reserved for a particular Judge.  You could always call your local Court and ask them to give you an idea.


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## skyblu (Sep 9, 2010)

We have been told 6-8 week and costs £170.00. We don't have it repaid by our LA.

Just to mention, some of you are waiting for the AO so you can take your lo out of country, you can still apply for a passport through your agency. We went  Abroad back in September and had no problem with passport for lo. And the LA paid for it, we also had a letter explaining that we had permission to take lo out just in case we were stopped at passport control, we didn't get stopped.
Hopes this helps some of you.

Skyblu.xxx


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## Dreams do come true (Jan 4, 2012)

Seems I am not the only one with AO frustrations!!!!

Bloody sw's!!!!!

I just want them to leave us alone now, we don't need them to visit, we dint need them to review us, we just need them to do what they say when they say they will do it.

Our childrens sw STILL has not submitted her report, so much for AOs before Christmas.

Good luck everyone in getting yours.

Frangipani - our fee was £170 for two children as Wyx said one application per case not per child, and the LA refund it....god forbid, it'll prob take them a few years.

We need passports for June, if we don't get the AO soon I am asking the LA for them.

Rant over


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## Flash123 (Jan 29, 2006)

Dreams, we re going to do the same. We have agreed a date as we we too need a passport, and if the ao isn't through in time we will be asking placing authority to sort it out. It is so infuriating. I know our litte mans sw is so over worked it unbelievable. Changes to the system have meant she's in court nearly everyday but the knock on effect is maddening. We bend over backwards to get things done when they should be. We completed Our paperwork back in sept and we were advised to let the sw submit it all together follwing our second review but still no application. I so wish we hadn't taken that advice and had done it ourselves.


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## galaxy girl (Feb 12, 2008)

Our court was £100 per child rather than application... And not reimbursed. We too took a holiday this summer and for passports through social services. Of course they will need new ones now with new name !


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## Greeniebop is a mummy (Jan 17, 2010)

Well finally we have the dates for AO and celebration hearing!!!


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## Flash123 (Jan 29, 2006)

Greenie that's fab news but I am soooooooo jealous. Heaven knows when ours will be! X


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## Frangipanii (Nov 21, 2011)

Thanks for advice lovelies! 
And so happy for you Greenie! Yay to the end of social workers being in your life!!! X x


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## kizzi79 (Jan 9, 2009)

I am in the process of completing these forms - sadly my LA do not reimberse so definately good to check on this.
Kiz  xx


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## Flash123 (Jan 29, 2006)

Wooohoooo found out last night application is submitted - just waiting for dates now xxx


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## MummyAuntieKatie (Oct 18, 2012)

Well will wonders never cease??  We had a letter today (dated 15 Nov) that says our Adoption Hearing will be 2 January!  

Therefore, our paperwork was submitted 11 November and our Hearing date is 2 January (the first hearing, we will not attend and TBH I don't expect BF to either, or to contest but we'll see!).  Not sure how long after that the celebration hearing will be (is that what it's called, the second hearing?)…

xxx


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## peacelily (Feb 24, 2006)

MAK - there's a First Hearing, a Final Hearing (both of which BPs are notified of) and a Celebration Day for us to attend.


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## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

You're all geniusses.  I just realised we haven't claimed back our court fee!  Must get on with it!  

Good luck all.


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## Miny Moo (Jan 13, 2011)

We only had one hearing, we had a very good judge who said regardless of what happened or who turned up on the day she would be granting our AO,  BM made lots of threats, was turned down legal aid, then on the day never bothered to show up!!


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## Frangipanii (Nov 21, 2011)

We are now being told that if we apply then they will action an official delay!  It seems we are being bullied into a corner! So angry!


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## Greeniebop is a mummy (Jan 17, 2010)

Fran, sending you hugs. Have they told you their reasoning behind this? Apologies if you have explained this previously x


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## Frangipanii (Nov 21, 2011)

Greenie...we have fallen out with LA and its awful! I have kept away from ff cos I am so upset. They have said if the children werent settled they would remove them...but nobody can argue that the children arent settled.  Even the manager of our agency has got involved and he says there is too much bad feeling surrounding an obviously settled and successful placement! We are being bullied and stressed out. Its awful makes us feel like we have abused the children by the way they are treating us. I am so upset it is not true. I regret adoptin and  would never recommend it to anyone! Sorry but its awful. Well bar the children of course! Lol they are wonderful! (Most of the time)! 
X


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## Flash123 (Jan 29, 2006)

Fran, I'm so, so sorry to  hear what you and dh are having to go through. It must be simply awful. What about your Independent Reviewing Officer? Could they get involved in an impartial role and try to help stop the bullying and unnessessary stress? 

Sending you bigs hugs and hope so much that this awful situation gets sorted soon. Xx


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## Frangipanii (Nov 21, 2011)

The independent review officer interrogated me about my own adoption so much so I walked out. Our agency rep said he was completely unprofessional but nobody has told him that or stood up for us at all! 
Thanks Flash! Nice to be supported x x


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## Flash123 (Jan 29, 2006)

So much for being independent eh! It makes my blood boil when 'professionals' abuse their position. Keep us posted and I'm preying that soon the 'professionals' put your cherubs and their happiness at the heart of his process and not their beauracracy xxx


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## Loopylou29 (Mar 4, 2013)

Fran

Keep your chin up and remember you are the better person. On our first time round we had a terrible experience with 2 professionals and we almost gave up. Little man was placed and it was almost like these individuals were waiting for us to fail. In fact we have gone on to adopt again and those 2 professionals work elsewhere (nothing to do with us). The rest of our LA have seen the placements for the success they are and we have given talks on prep groups and the like. I know its hard when they are not supportive but you have YOUR children and a panel said YOU were the best parents for them. Try not to let them spoil your first Christmas as a family.


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## MummyAuntieKatie (Oct 18, 2012)

Fran, how bloody awful!!!  I'm so sorry you have having so much trouble with the LA!  What on earth are they trying to achieve by being so hostile?  I truly hope you can get this sorted and that if you are no longer able to work with the LA you can get the AO granted ASAP and move on with your family.  Can you get another support organisation involved?  Or perhaps speak to your MP?  xxxx


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## Jules11 (Jun 21, 2011)

Fran,

That is totally unfair.  I'm so sorry you are going through this.  

We have had experience of unprofessional IRO...  ours at our first LAC review, 4 weeks after placement, went through DD life history book commenting on how much BM loved her and how much she must miss her wonderful FC.  All of this with DD sitting next to her looking at the photos silently crying.

Sending you very big  .  If the BF had provided the home and standard of care you are providing the court would never have agreed to the DC being moved.  On that basis, hopefully   your AO should help to sort these problems out.

Take care and remember this forum is always here for support.  

Jules xx


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## Frangipanii (Nov 21, 2011)

Thanks for the advice and support ladies.  You do help! I am confused because I thought it was a 'right' to put in adoption order at ten weeks..so isnt it bribery telling us we cant as they will delay! Awful situation. Drama does seem to follow me. Funny thing mr review (turncoat) officer sent his minutes yesterday and it was gushing how well the children have settled! Complete shock to us both! It mentioned the name change but in a lets move forward kinda way. It is still bizarre to think of the things he wrote cos he said nothing like that when he was here. I think maybe the psychologist mentioned the obvious and positive changes in thr children. Who know. Anyway thanks for support and thanks for listening! 
Love to you all x x x


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## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

I think the AO can be applied from that date if all parties agree, not as a right, if you see what I mean.  (((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))  Hang on in there, it's going to be okay, and then one day sooner than you think you'll be able to put all this behind you and move forward, secure in your new family.


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## snapdragon (Jun 27, 2011)

You can submit the adoption order application at 10 weeks but the sw's still have to submit their paperwork in support. They are given a certain amount of time to do it. I don't know anything about actioning an official delay but if the review was positive I would have thought that would be difficult. However, I would wait. 10 weeks is early. Most applications go in later. Our la submitted ours and took ages. It went in at 7 months.


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## Miny Moo (Jan 13, 2011)

Why don't you contact Adoption UK helpline and get some advice of them, this is happening far to often. Sorry if someone has already suggested this haven't had time to read everything yet.


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## MummyAuntieKatie (Oct 18, 2012)

We could have submitted our Application to Adopt direct to the courts if we'd had all the info needed, as it was we gave it to BB's SW who completed the missing bits and sent it on 11 November 13.  We had a call from our SW the other say saying she needed to come to visit as she hadn't seen us for a while (hmm, no sh1t Sherlock) and she was moaning that the court date (2 Jan) didn't give her much time to do her report.  So it seems that the date is set by the court depending on their backlogs and the SW's are informed the info is needed by that time.

Wouldn't they need to ask the court for an extension based on some inability to complete the paperwork in order to force a delay?  It's all so wooly, we really haven't been given much information!  All we know is our first hearing is 2 Jan 14 and our attendance is excused.

xxx


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## katie c (Jun 15, 2009)

MummyAuntieKatie said:


> We had a call from our SW the other say saying she needed to come to visit as she hadn't seen us for a while (hmm, no sh1t Sherlock) and *she was moaning that the court date (2 Jan) didn't give her much time to do her report. *


oh bless her.don't the courts realise there's, oh, a whole month 'til xmas and SS need to start winding down? how unreasonable of them to expect the SWs to do some work in the entire month of december!


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