# the different but obvious route to our family



## Frangipanii

I thought about doing one of these diaries but didnt feel the time was right until now.....
I was born in the seventies to a young girl who had a summer fling with a boy. She was too young, she never told her parents. The labour started in the lounge of her parents house with her fourteen year old sister listening with disbelief and saddness as she knew the reaction her family would have. The new mother soon left for the hospital and was told never to return. Unfortunately she never saw her sister  or the rest of her family again. The mother was taken to a young mothers house and was given her limited options and cam to the conclusion that she would have to give the baby( little jaundice me) up for adoption.  
Nearby a young family with a two year old little boy were playing and discussing how a little addition to their family mght be nice. A couple weeks later they bumped into the little boys old foster Mum and she mentioned a little bundle of blond hair and chubby cheeks that had recently been delivered to her. The mothers heart started racing and shortly after they contacted their social worker who completed their  family.  They had realised  years before that they were unable to concieve so adoption was the obvious route for them. With one little boy and one little girl they were finally complete.


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Hi hun just posting so I am updated when you add to your journey x


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## Frangipanii

I became a full member of my family shortly after. It was less complicated in those days and alot more private. My mum and dad were part of a loving family and my brother and I were very loved. We were always told about our adoptions and although we dealt with being adopted in very different ways we both fiercly proud of our loving family and would not want to have grown up anywhere else!! My family are all very close and love each other dearly. Growing up it was evident to me that we were different but actually in a lot of ways we were better. I think being adopted meant my parents had to teach us a sense of openness abd honesty that my friends never had with their parents and very open shows of affection. I think this was because my parents had to really go against the grain adopting and it meant we were unique! So they had done the hard part. 
I was different to my brother as I questioned my DNA and always wanted to know where I came from and who I came from. It didnt ever make me love my parents less or even question my love for them. At times i had moments of teenage angst thinking I was a problem child and therefore unwanted but my parents always put me right. I was always really really angry when people asked me who my real parents were as to me it was obvious.....my real parents were the ones who were bringing me up. My mum and dad. 
When dh and I had some fertility problems to start with my parents were why not adopt...well I had some reasons why.


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## Frangipanii

Dh and I have been together since 1999 and we were not in a rush to have children. Hubby had a demanding job and was away more than he was home. I was working and going to college and we always wanted travel so we put it on a back burner....although we never used protection. So eventually jwe knew it was not just going to happen. In 2005 I fell pregnant but i didnt know as I was still having periods and my periods were so irregular it wouldnt have made any difference to me anyway!! When we found out I was pregnant we were away in America. It was the happiest 24 hours of my life and nearly the last 24 hours of my life. The next day i was in the worst pain ever...i couldnt breathe. I was rushed to hospital and it was determined that it was an ectopic pregnancy which had rupturned. I was 15 weeks pregnant. To a little girl. I was in surgery for six hours..my dh alone in a waiting room had been told i would be a couple of hours. I lost well over sixty% of my blood was in intesitve care and during the surgery they lost me four times a d nearly said goodbye. My hubby was amazing and my mum flew over. Life was a bit glum after that. As you an imagine.  We plodded on and eventually after a few years decided to have ivf.

We plodded on ofcourse ans


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## Frangipanii

After a few years our options were discussed. Now dont judge but dh had some convictions from when he was 18. Stupid none violent boy crimes and I had a caution. other than that we were healthy, wealthy..enough and obviously keen on adopting. So I rung up and was told in no circumstances would we be able to adopt. Wow bang......I alwasy thought u woukd have my dna children and then adopt and now my dream was over. 
A few years later and some horrendous ivf my parents suggested me ringing again. I was so disheartened and put off but eventually I decided I would. And what a greeting. Three agencies all said that the issues would be discussed and looked into but would at noway stop us adopting. All theee agencies invited to apply with them. Things had changed! So we decided to take the plunge. I didnt want anymore ivf. Hubby was always more keen to adopt than have ivf so why not. 
So here we are part way through hs and ready to have our lives changed forever!!! We want to adopt siblings and we want them as soon as possibele...funny that!!! And all our issues have been discussed and we have been give the green light so far!!
My parents and family could support us more. I will write more but I just wanted to set the scene. x x x


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Wow you are amazingly strong   and will make an amazing Mummy with so much understanding to give them. I'm just sorry that people put you off in the past. Everyone does stupid things as teenagers just most adults have the joy of not having to tell anyone. Not us  . 

Will look forward to hearing your updates. We also want siblings ASAP. How many are you thinking? DH wants to go for 2 but I'm thinking 2 or 3 x


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## -x-Lolly-x-

Really amazing journey to get to this point, credit to the both on you. You have had a tough time over the years but strength has pulled you through and that just shows what a great mummy you will be xxx


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## Frangipanii

thanks u 2!Lovely comments!!! I dont think anyone has an easy journey with any of this as u know!! But onwards and upwards. We are hoping to adopt 2 but could be easily persuaded towards three if the circumstance were right!!! Who knows!!! It is all exciting well as long as it continues as positively!!! 
xxx


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## crazyspaniel

Frangipanii,
Good luck with the rest of your journey, looking forward to your happy ending!!! Xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

You've written your story so eloquently, I loved reading it.  Good luck in your continued journey xx


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

Loved reading your story. 

Good luck with your journey. Xxxxxx


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## Frangipanii

Thanks all. Please u r enjoying reading my story.

I suppose I should set the scene a little further. Hubby was offered a new job which meant moving away. Yhis was difficult as I was not sure living in my home town for the rest of my life was ideal. So we went house hunting and during this time we made he call about adoption. Well when we got the shock thst we could take adoption further everything changed. How could we adopt and move away? Nope, new house, new neighbourhood, new jobs ...no friends....no family. It was not going to work. So we decided on a compromise and we moved to house more suitable for children and dh to stay in job. Now we are close to family and friends and know that we have a support network. We are also doing a bit of farming which keeps me healthy and active. Nothing too exciting just some chickens and stuff. Makes me laugh we have spent all this money and time and my career being on hold and what if we get a 'no' its so ridiculous to even think like that. 
I always wanted a big family, house full of noise, kids, animals. Loved watching the Waltons growing up. te he. Adoption is a journey for all parties but an amazing one. I am proud to be adopted and proud to be on an adoption journey no matter how many bumps get in my way.


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## Frangipanii

Hs four done and dusted. We seem to laugh a lot which is great as we all get on so well. We have been told it looks like a June Panel. Happy and disappointed all at same time as wanted May but so glad they ahve given us a timr scale!! Things are going ok re everythinv else. House renovations are nearly finished ans now we can start decorating. 
I am working with three year olds alot at the moment and just love them. Such a lovely age. I really hope we can be a family before christmas. 
I was talking to social worker today about how I worry that it is all about the adoption and not about the family we become. I have a big issue about labels and what defines you in life. And i think it is really important that you are define by positives not statement. Our to be children should be defined as being from a hapoy family not defined by being adopted. Does anyone get where I am coming from. Alto of emphasis is on the. childrens history and I think it should be on their Now! 
Hubby is annoying me tonight so he will be getting the cold shoulder later. I think we spend to much time together!!! I need some me time. But thats life i suppose. 
Going to start my Eco map tomorrow and see how that goes....should be interesting.
night x


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## MummyAuntieKatie

I know exactly where you are coming from.  Adoption should be a part of who you are, not all of who you are.  The kids are just kids, they will have a loving mum and dad and be brought up the same as all the other kids.  Where they came from shouldn't define who they are.  It bugs me that everything is analysed to the n'th degree when the same behaviours and outcomes can be observed in birth children.  We need to be careful not to deliberately make them different.

(sorry, rant over!  It's a big bear of mine too)


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## Frangipanii

You talk so much sense!!!!!!!! Thank you. it is good that someone else is singing from the same. i get really peed off with it all!!! Parents with birth children can have just as many problems!!! xxx


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## Frangipanii

When I was younger I did the whole I cant cope because I am adopted teenage anxt bit. I am not sure everyone goes through it but I certainly had my wobbles. Usually at a time when something else was going wrong and as a confused teenager i could blame it on being adopted. To me being adopted sometimes (very emotional teenager) felt in a way like being unwanted, even though i had so much love and was given everything!!! and (!?!!!?) that was awful for a while. I know the truth now is that I was wanted more than anything!!! U have to remember what makes sense to us as adults might not make semse to us as children or teenagers. I am cringing now but i think i even said those words 'you dont love me your not my real mum/dad. Horrible. Funny cos my dh gets peed off sometimes because of how close i am to my parents. I thinkall kids at somepoint question their identity...well for adopted kids it can be quite hard. I am speaking from my experience though and adoption is very different now so might be irrelevant. My parenst were always open about talking about my adoption and later on I even traced my biological family. Thankfully that cured any desire to be in further contact. I think we have to be carsful to honor the indentity but at the same time remember that the childs family is about here and now not there and then. 
I do worry that with the differences in adoption that maybe the bond will not be as strong...but worries are jormal!!! 
anyway enough uncoherant babble.


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## Frangipanii

So today with another homestudy coming round I am wondering what the purpose of all these years of waiting were for....I dont mean in a negative I am depressed kinda way just in a shine a bit of light of the time kinda way. I recognise that I took my time with IVF and could have gone straight into adoption if I had more courage and I also admit that I wanted to have a career before ivf but if I look back over 10/11 years I dont see the most fruitful of times, yes we both went to uni, went travelling lots and had bits of careers and fun but I am not sure if there was any point to it. IVF has made me fat'ter' and I am going to be an older mum. Would I choose to turn the clock back and have done ivf/adoption in 2002 or something I dont know. Hubby and I have a better relationship now then we ever did so maybe that is the point its happening now because we as a couple are ready. We have been through so much and now it is all happening, hopefully. When do you stop thinking it might, to it 'is'. There must be a transition point where you know ok this is going to actually happen. Oh the dreaded realisation just came to me, that is when you get past panel isnt it?
I have to do my eco map today that should be interesting as I am not very artistic and I am wondering whether I have to actually make something that looks amazing or just something that will tell them what they need to know. It will be fun trying. 
Anyway best go and clean my house and make sunday lunch and get some other stuff done! 
x


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Loving reading this   I wish we'd started adoption earlier, if I'd been more realistic about how long it would take perhaps we would have?

I set up a graph on Word, a pre-set one they provide, with a circle in the centre and lots of circles coming off it joined up by lines, was an easy way to do an eco map.   xx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Nothing is right or wrong. I started trying to be a Mum at 24 and hopefully will be one before I'm 30 as I'm 28 now. I always wanted to be a Mum so didn't bother trying with a career. I am ambitious but wanted to be a Mum more. I wasn't willing to take any risks. I thought when my kids are at the back end of primary school I'll throw myself into career and I'll only be mid 30's still loads of time to find fulfillment. So now I wish I'd done both so I had something I was passionate about and proud of through all this instead of feeling like I've not done anything with my life. Guess the grass is always greener as you say. However I'm glad that we aren't reliant on a decent salary from me to pay the bills. It gives me more freedom and choice which I am grateful for x x x


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## Frangipanii

Anyone else love their husband to pieces but wish they could sometimes control what they did. I know I am not his master but he made a decision about something today where i would have made a different decisio. and I know mine is a far better option. Annoying or what!!! Oh well at least its not the end of the world!!!
Got to get a reference from over nearly twenty years ago! And another reference didnt do it properly so got to sort thst out. Other than that things are going amazing. I know I am weird but it feels too good to be true!!! She says linking should go good, she has high hopes for us and we have been through all the skeletons and come out the otherside. My folks have agreed to go on a grandparenting course for adoption. Wonder what is going to happen next!! 
My friends are so supportive of this all and it is so nice to have read all the lovely things hey have writte. Feels quite emotional. 
Think i am being boring so goodnight!!! xx


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## Frangipanii

Today was interesting. We had our first look in mamas and papas. No we didnt buy anything obvioisly but if you havent been a parent it is difficult to know what you need and home much it costs. 
Trying to get my head round not having a baby baby is sometimes weird. I mean i am all good with it of course but when looking at baby clothes it is thinking 'oh I might be starting at this age or maybe this age'. Qiite a strange concept really. Well maybe not to other people but it is too me. 
I am trying to believe it is happening now rather than it may happen. BUt then I could be up for a broken heart again. I have a back up plan jusy incase!!! Its random but it is there!!! 
I so yearn for a normal family but then I think normal dont exist so we yearn for something so unlikely!!! I am never going to have a normal husband that is for sure. very complex guy...annoyingly so. So what is normal?!? Who knows!!!
Anyway was good to look and think about being a family and I hope to dream about that tonight. A normal one !!


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## crazyspaniel

Ah Frangi, indeed what is normal? And actually who wants 'normal' as long you are happy (mostly) and love each other 'warts and all' you will have that happy family xx
Oh and on the subject of mamas and papas lovely things for special occasions but v overpriced, if you find something you like in there my advice would be to then search on line for a more competitive price esp eBay and gumtree xx happy window shopping!!


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Where have you found the grandparents course we have looked and can't find anything? Desperate to try and get one for our lot x x


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## Frangipanii

oooh good idea crazy spaniel. I am going to look into that. Thanks. yeah I suppose u are right we are all weird!!
Gywneth...Our agency is having a grandparent course it is run by the aftercare team. Sorry cant help!!! xx


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## Frangipanii

life is a never ending journey of ups and downs. I remember when I was younger I used to hate the boring days of nothingness whereas now i woul welcome that with open joy!!! Dh and I have been having reacurring arguments recently and about the same thing. I am suffering through lack of understanding and patience for his point of view!!! Give me strenght to not kick him up the  metoforically speaking of course!!! He has the bvious desire to provide for his children however we have enough money to get by. This is not good enough for him and he is really impatient and he wants to go back to his old job which made him and me miserable but made him money!!! I am so sick of having this argument. He is being selfish on one hand because he wants the extra money to invest as well as provide for his family but if he waited two years he will be able to do that with a career he loves!!! His last career almost broke me...long story!! I just feel confused in the roles I have betwee. 'supportive wife' 'mother to be' and I am a b****h and I will tell u so when u fall on your bum!! Its hilarous that everything else was going great til this problem rose its ugly head again!!! I despair. Only consolidation is either way at least it will be sorted before the children come home to live!! 
And to top it all...we are seeing friends this weeken. If we are still arguing I know he will cancel so I have to kiss his behind!!!! Well at least til sunday night but by then I am sure I will havr thought of someyhing else i need him to do and therefor cannot fall out with him for!! Marriage hey...aint it lovely.
U love them one and and want to kick em down the next. Obviously I dont mean in any violent way. 
Anyway needed to rant as its a private problem so I havent shared it with my bestests. 
I cannot wait for thisweekend to be over!!! and i am having serious issues with chocolate as well!!!! I gave up booze and now i cannot stop eating chocolate!!!
Oh well rant over. Think i will get an early night and calm my mood!!! sleep sweet all!!!


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## Frangipanii

So planning for the future!!! I find it impossible when in such a transient period of my life!!! So does my dh. U cant plan for anything bar planning not to plan. I am trying not to be defined by infertility but my life is on hold waiting to be a mum. Life is so complex when u are struck by infertility and now not being able to have access to your own future as you have no idea what direction it will take. I mean I think we will get approved but what if we dont. Yes i have a plan Z but short term it means nothing. I am frustrated over dh's situation but at the same time I respect him and love him. I am having a mental glitch. I hope next week will be a more postive week and we are not seeing sw so hope maybe we get a little more time to reflect on things. Being a drama queen i know just wish i knew what was round the corner. 
'Your living is determined not so much by what life brings to you as by the attitude you bring to it; not so much by what happens to you as by the way your mind looks at what happen' this is a quote i am hping on keep close to me as we progress further on in this process!! 
Love my dh so much but it would be so much easier if he did as he was told!! ha ha
Also fingers crossed it is my last year without my own mothers day card!!!!! oh i really hope so!!!!


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Def last year without a card! 

We've been careful what we plan but haven't stopped everything.  The day SW was coming last week I booked tickets to go to visit Dad in Spain for a few days for us both and then she presents us with a possible match.  However, the timing will probably be great as we can have our last 5 days abroad as a 2 (if all goes to plan) then when we get back friends have tickets for the Army v Navy game at Twickenham the following weekend.  Should the match be approved we could start intros very soon after that.  We want to make the most of our freedom because we know that once LO is home (I have to keep saying 'if it happens' because nothing is certain) everything will, quite rightly, be about him. 

Can you book a holiday? Just a few days doing something you won't be able to do together when you are a mum? xx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

The whole planning not to plan is really hard because it doesn't start with adoption. I feel like we have had life on hold for ever. I am trying to be like Katie now I think she is right. I guess what I try to say is what is the worst that can happen. We have to cancel something too late to get our money back if we got matched. It's not that bad I'd forget totally about cost if I had an LO. I think it is best to try and carry on as if you weren't matched and then cancel stuff when it happens. (Within reason obviously it's not a time to make daft financial decisions.) 

That's what we are trying. 
With regards to DH - I agree with you. Money is not everything, as long as you can live you are best being happy. Work stress is very toxic I know from experience. The first few months after matching will be so wonderful but also incredibly hard and stressful. Realistically on a practical level adding further pressure and or stress from other places like work into this is a bad idea.   Do you think he will see it from that point of view?


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## Frangipanii

AuntieKate...I think u are right. It makes sense to do some last things as a two. And we are also planning with an 'if' attached to everything we say. So confusing. 
Gywneth. Again we are all stuck with our lives one hold and with the 'if' circling around our heads like vuchers about to swoop!!! Coming on here and reading other peoples thoughts gives me strenght. 
As for dh...he will see it from other perspectives but it wont change anything. Spoke to him today and got a cold reaction about my prefered options. So i best leave well alone. At least everything els is going great. I suppose there always has to be some broken rungs of your ladder!!!
xxxxx


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## Frangipanii

U know the question of how many kids? Well what if first time I want two and then maybe another two and then maybe fostering. What if we dont get any? What if our PAR does not impresse anyone at panel? It is so funny my dad gets really frustrated about how complex this process is compared to what they went through adopting me and my brother. He keeps saying it is obvious we are made to be parents and why cant they just get on with it. Hes not old school either so it realy makes me chuckle!! 
I am really excited at the moment about it all but at the same time keep questioning things. Like how does my life fit round child in practical ways. I want to make sure I have thought of everything. Like the care of my animals if the kids are ill or maybe just need some extra suuport. What happens if my animals are ill and hubby is at work. What if i need a sleep or a bath. Or just need chocolate  Just trying to cover every eventuality. Trying to make sure my weaknesses on the par are thought out and covered in my head!!! We have support around us but I worry about some of them being a good enpugh role model. One of my friends swears too much, the other smokes, the other one drinks too much, another has men problems, another has family issues. I mean nobody is perfect but I dont want my kids growing up around some of my dyfunctional friends. Ok being harsh and funny in my head. Anyone else over assessing everything in their life?!
ah well keeps me on my toes and makes me rise up to the challenge. Been knocked down too many times to let anything stand in my way!!! Life is hard, it does throw spanners at you but once u recognise that and deal with each drama piece by piece u can keep getting back up and hurl the spanner back where it came from!!! Oh life u r complex but u keep me entertained!!
x


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Ha ha I look at everyone and thing  in my life through SW eyes. Anyone who may create a negative for me and DH then annoys me beyond belief. Not healthy I'm sure but can't help it. I tell myself  they won't scrutinize them as much as us so it may not come out. X x x


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## -x-Lolly-x-

All this thinking hurts the brain doesn't it?!!  I am at the same stage of analysing and then over analysing EVERYTHING and it is only making me paranoid and anxious... and I don't even know why!!  I think having all avenues covered in your head is a good idea, as then you can feel confident to address any issues and then smug when they don't even get raised


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## Frangipanii

so glad to know i am not alone Lolly!!!
So desperate to be a mum I am even planning weekends I will takr with my friends in thr futre when the kids are older!! Sad I know x x x


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## -x-Lolly-x-

It's not sad at all, it is natural. We have wanted something for so long and only now we dare to realistically start to plan our futures. It is exciting


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## Frangipanii

Hi peeps. Well new to me is the thought that finallt we are getting somewhere and soon hopefully we will be at panel. Someone on out prep group got linked straightaway. Not too say it will all go through of course. But things are progressing well for us. Dh has agreed to start reading these treads so he can read about the challenges ans the roses!! I think it is important to remember it aint all hard work ans it aint all roses!!! But will see if he actually does it. 
We had a huge row about money this week. It is just so hard to know what is enough. Our Sw says we. have enough but dh doesnt think it is and I havent got a clue. I just dont want to get worried about things that are not a problem. I mean surely you have to trust your Sw's.
I really like my social worker and I am dying to know his experiences of the other side of this work. Although maybe i dont. 
The weather is not pleasant is it aat the moment. It is not doing me any good what so ever. But at least the windows dont let any wind in like the other house. I Keep imagining a house full of kids ans it nearly makes me weep. But in a nice way. 
had a debate with a friend this week about the benefits system. She is a idealist and a romantic and was shocked when I said that people on benefis who continually have children wthout providing for them should be asked to get sterilised or be penalised for having more children. I played devils advocate with her of course going to extremes but it is something that disgusts me. I spoke to a client recently whose sister is pregnant with her fourth child. I asked her what her sister does? Well obviously she didnt know what I meant. So I asked who was providing for the child and she mentioned that her sister was on benefits. I said oh so the oregnanc


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## Frangipanii

phone playing up. 
So I said the pregnancy wasnt planned then and she replied oh yes she wanted a little boy. I just nodded and said oh right. So I mentioned this too my friend and she said that it is disgusting but hopefully that all the work people do stop benefit fraud and get people empowered back into work will take effect soon. I mean I am sorry but is she dreaming. She believes in patience and being supportive to people and yes i agree some people are very deserving and do need it but come on the country is getting way out of control if this keeps happening. Crazy rant and not remotely making sense. But I think the whole benefits system needs changing and if peopld need money they should have to work for it even if that means working in their own community to improve it.


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## Frangipanii

I think i should have replied to loads of messages on other threads and I have got so far behijd that if I did knowbody would know what I was on about. Sorry if I should have relied to anyone.
Had a complete slump!!! I am completely wiped out by all this and peed off. The life being on hold factor has finally exploded in my face and I am completely stumbled.It is complicated but basically I am lacking any way of gaining any self esteem. Most people go to work, see friends, have hobbies, go out, I dont. My two best frienss are so wrapped up in their new lives sinces their marriages ended only ever talk about themselves, I dont work because of adoption, we never go out because we are saving money and we dont drink now, and other than clean the house and look after my lovely animals, and the dh I do nothing. All completely self inflicted and a complete pity party I know. But i have been doing this since Septemeber 2011 since we started ivf and the bubble finaly burst!!.So I am having to have. Rethink about what is going on. My mum helps...she spends money on me which is great but not long lasting!!! My volunteering at places has finished and the little bits of work I was doing has ended well I could get more freelance but I am not sure. 
So I am having to think what do I do. I have joined a gym but it doesnt open til may. I am hoping the weather gets warmer so i can get green fingered. 
Anyway rant over Roll on june panel and whenever the other stuff starts. 
x


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Ah sweetie we all have times like these and do you know what they suck!!!!  It is really hard when your life is being lived out in someone else's hands. It is really hard when you have sacrificed all other sectors of your life for something that seems to take forever and no-one can give you a dead line for. 

I have also made work changed for this journey I have left a permanent job because I was unhappy but mainly because they would not have given me time for prep etc and we couldn't have done it. I have taken a 10 grand pay cut and I am on a short contract that ends in about a month. I am looking for something now but worrying as about 2 weeks after I could start we will have prep each Wednesday for a month. Which obviously takes priority. 

Friends don't help do they so glad I have Lolly off here she is my star when the world drives me mad x


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## -x-Lolly-x-

Limbo is a horrible place to be   This is such an emotionally draining process at times and for one liking control (aka me!) a very difficult one. It is so hard that our future is in someone else's hands, we just have to do the very best we can, hope, keep talking and keep busy. It sounds like this is something that is troubling you, too much time to think. Do you think you could decorate your house, sign up for more voluntary work or take a short course? Is there anything offered through adoption UK, any seminars you could look into? I hope the weather picks up soon so you can be out more with your animals.  

Gwyneth you are such a love!! It is so fab to have each other for support cos I know you well and truly get it


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## Frangipanii

Well thats it homestudy done and dusted. Par has now to be written, all referee intererviews done and dusted tooooo. Cant believe it. There are stages I believe that make u realise how real this all is and the fact that we have started to look at children is pretty much as big as it can get!!! Wow. I feel like I have so much to do. I mean we have to decorate the whole house yet ans I feel like it shoild be done today but dh is very much a when he gets to it kinda bloke¡¡¡ And I cannot do it on my own. Or could I?? Um now that is something to think about!!! 
So we have chosen our matching criteria and it was soooo hard. we both knew it would be but wow. Glad that is over...ok I know it isnt really cos it will be ongoing with matching but i am trying to make myself feel better. We were VERY honest and stuck to our guns on most things. So thats it not just a waiting game. Pity panel isnt for eleven weeks isnt it!! xx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Well done you another milestone passed not many more to go x x


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## Frangipanii

Thanks Gwyneth,

Well things are strangely calm here, I have started to feel like I am soon getting a family, I have deleted my ********, prepared my finances, started thinking and looking for children, started to tell the 'odd' person. I know we have even been to panel, but we have told the truth and they seem to really like us at the agency and have said there are no problems even with our history. I am quietly confident and our social worker is hoping to start looking for children before panel. It is so exciting and yet I know that there is such a long time to go. I know I am not going on holiday or anything but I wish I could look forward to doing something other than just concentrating on children. Dont get me wrong I have lots to do in the house, it all need painting and working on and our land needs child proofing and tarting up, but none of that is fun! We have given up alcohol so are now sociallly reclusive and our friends only come round for tea or for a quick catch up, we never get invited out, fortunately we have each other and my family. and we know our friends love us really, they have accepted that we are getting boring for a very good reason!
Just been ringing round dentist as we are both slackers in that departement but obviously want to make sure that we are sorted for kids and we could do with it too I suppose!
Anyway best go and check on my flock. love to all xx x


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Great to hear you sounding so positive Fran. Great minds I registered me and DH at a new Dr's today. We moved in July I've just never got it sorted. I thought must get that done and go to the Dentist can't be responsible for others health while forgetting the basics for us  . 

All the house jobs will get done at some point. I've decided that once you have a bigger than 2 bed house it's always finish one thing the beginning needs starting again  

Not long to panel. Have you seen your PAR yet?


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## Sq9

Perhaps a holiday or at least a long weekend away would do you the world of good as you might not get the chance for a while once panel and beyond.  We go to panel   in sept / oct so have booked a hol and a couple of weekends away before then to make the most of what might be the last few months of us just being a twosome.  It has helped me keep my mind off thinking of what might be after panel. Failing that, there's nothing like getting stuck in to some decorating to make you feel like you are making a difference!


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## Frangipanii

Hi No not seen PAR yet but they are on with it. I think u r right i am going to get decorating!!!
Sq9... would love a holiday but we have smallholding/farm and there is nobody to look after animals. But spending more time with them is holidayish so I think I am going to plan to spend some money on getting a chill out area on our land where we can read, sleep, listen to the radio and just be at one with ourselves. Similar to a holiday!! BUt yes u r both right the decorating is calling!!
I am also joining the gym but it doesnt open til May. I want to loose about four stone and I have lost one already so it is good motivation. Have to get running again like you Gwyneth!!!

night night x x


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## MummyAuntieKatie

You're making me feel really lazy!  We have loads of decorating to do and I need to loose at least 4 stone but can't get in gear at all!!  I'm not working either after taking redundancy but I just have hit a brick wall.  Anyone got any good tips on breaking out of this mindset?    If everything goes well and quickly we could be a family by June, something needs to give me a kick up the jacksie!


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## Mummy DIY Diva

For me the only way to force decorating is to involve someone else and then you have to do it. My Mum comes and helps me and this forces me to get sorted.  

I think with everything starting is really hard but continuing is not too bad. Once something is started you see the positives and want to continue the progress. Well done with the weight loss loosing a stone is amazing  . 

Enjoy your sheep or whatever it is on your small holding x x


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## Frangipanii

I just got my wall paper remover out of the box to try ans motivate myself and ended up back in bed!!! te he. I also need motivation. Procrastination is my hell!!! Auntie Kate, the only way I am loosing weight so far is by being very realistic. Three healthy meals a day and lots of walking and I am having treats. But I need to get to the next stage now which is upping the exersize. As for the decorating I have to wait until Dh is ready and his workload is too big at moment. So we shall have to wait but I do hink getting help is a good idea. 
Auntie Kate u are like me, chosen to have no job at present. It can be boring and then other days i find so much to do I think how can i cope in he future with kids, a smallholding ans a job. Oh well it will be fun finding out!!!
Auntie Kate, have u got. dog. I found when having ivf that walking the dog for an extra hour a day really helped me, i used to plug in my radio and off I went for a couple of hours. 
They say writing a plan and showing it to someone else can be a motivator so if u want to feel free. 
Talking motivation, hubbh is being lovely this morning looking after the animals etc but it makes me not want to get out of bed!!!! Oh motivation come and find me!!! xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

We not only have a dog, we have 3, but tbh I'm finding it hard to motivate myself to walk them far either!  Oh dear!!!  They aren't easy dogs to just potter along with tbh, high energy levels.  Maybe I'll just take one of them and make myself go further every day.  

I've just ordered a wallpaper sorer, stripper, stripping solution and 3 large sponges from Amazon!! Guess what I plan to do on the weekend!!       Woodchip, prepare to meet your maker!


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Good on you. I'll think of you tomorrow when I'm painting


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## Frangipanii

Had a wonderful moment yesterday but I am worried at it being slightly premature!!! I have been doing some work at a childrens centre and the lady who has had to do my reference started talking about how everything was going in front of some other stafff. Obviously this was a little annoying as it was supposed to be top secret!!! So i had to do damage control, so i gently and quietly announced it whilst making it very evident it is confidential. I then realised that the staff listenting originally actually had roles in management and admin ans would have known anyway...i hadnt really worked with them before. Now i know they have to keep things quiet as a profession but I do feel I have completely let the side down. And feel quite sick. Dont get me wrong for he half an hour talking about it it felt like magic and that it was also like annoucing a pregnancy and wow it was lovely and finally I got to tell them the truth after working there soo long. And it was good to get answers to questions about stuff I couldnt ask before. But now I feel sh#t. WhAt if it doesnt happen, what if I looked like an idiot. What ifs are going through my head. I know I sound dramatic but keeping this a secret was a big deal. Hubby has actually been ok, which i am not sure i am either with myself or if shoe had been on other fott!! 
I suppose its happened now, i did what i thought was best at the time and they dont know me socially and they are paid to keep things confidential so maybe they wont gossip and maybe everything will go smoothly with the adoption. 

fingers crosses. x


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## Mummy DIY Diva

It will be fine and they will be thrilled when you go back as a new forever Mummy to use some of their services I am sure. However I do totally understand I get so scared it won't work out. When   life has let you down and hurt you so much it is really hard to put your faith in something. 

You will be an amazing Mummy and this will work out brilliantly x x


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## Frangipanii

Thank u, u do make me feel better! You are such as a support thanks. And thanks for understanding. 

How are you finding the profiles. We have only just joined cww and bmp. It is scary. Have u seen any you like!? Sounds weird writing that!!!

I watched a film called detachment this afternoon and I really shouldnt have done!!! Omg how it made me feel!!! Too many words to describe. And I thought i was doing a great thing chilling out with a film for a change!!! 

Oh well only weeks and weeks and months and months to wait. I swear to god if this doesnt work I am emigrsting and going on holiday for the rest of my life!!!
My family are completely behind me but it sure makes things a bit tense all this waiting. 
sorry bit of a pity party, early night and some non miserable tv. Best turn Emmerdale off then!!! xxx


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

Honey don't worry honestly they'll be a great support and you WILL get through this and be a forever mummy. 

We told people from day one and its been lovely having all the support along the way. 

Don't punish yourself honey. 

Big hugs xxxxxx


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## Frangipanii

Thanks Emma you are truly lovely. I will br fine I am getting bogged down by the 'stuff' instead of focusing on the end result!!! xxxx


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

Just focus on why your doing this that will get you through honey and the end result is amazing  

Xxxx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Not really DH was reading profiles to me last night. One thing that surprised me is how specific they are about the parents required.  That might sound a bit stupid but some of them really specify a lot. Nothing jumped out at me but who knows.  I'm not fatalistic though I don't believe  there is one person you are destined to be with.  And I don't believe there is one lo or sib group of lo's we are meant to be with. I'm not stupid and also don't think a marriage or placement could work with any person or lo's either. It's about a good match at the right time for me. So believing that I'm not sure what I should feel on seeing the profile of our future children.  Hope that makes sense x


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## Frangipanii

Perfect sense. Yeah I agree they are quite specific. Some of them have alot of needs also. 
I also agree with your other theory that there is not one person/lo/sibling group for another!!! etc. It is complicated looking at them. We have seen a few that we like and would take further if we were at the right stage I think alhough the fact I am not 100% says something doesnt it. I supose these things take time to get your head around. All a bit nerve wracking if you ask me. x x x


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## Mummy DIY Diva

I don't know either. I guess different ways for different people. To be honest I think I'd love any photo you told me could be mine forever I have an exceptionally big capacity to love people, through life it has often hurt me because others aren't capable of giving back what I give because their capacity and ability to love isn't as big. However I'm hoping with adoption it will be a positive. Like everyone I will need time to build that deep parent child bond but I can love near any child fairly instantly so I'm hoping this has to make life easier. 

So I guess what I'm saying is I'm not really expecting that feeling of this is the one that some people get. It's not me, who I am or how I look at the world. That leaves me not really knowing how I'd feel. I am open minded. You'll have to let me know when you find your LO/s so I have some idea. x x x


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## Frangipanii

I think yoh have a lovely big open heart. Bless you are definatly going to be an amazing mummy!!!
I am not as big hearted. I care for children but I am not sure I could love all of them. Ha ha. we shall sww. More profiles to look at soon i think x
Gosh what a lovelh day. I think I will cry if it rains soon. I am loving spending hours outside. It is wonderful.
I feel quite settled now after and mixed week of emotions. I have started a new hobby of writing stuff down. Nothing interesting. LIke a journal but not kept with dates or even with facts just the waffle that goes on in my head. Quite silly really but that ans spending time outside is wonderful x


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## Mummy DIY Diva

I've got a diary that I write in about once a month it's for our Lo's. (I haven't  told anyone other than DH about it.) I wrote when it snowed about how I'd love building snowmen with them and when things happen that make me really curious about them I write. When we do home study I'll write a bit after each session. 

I figure I can't show them pictures of when they were born in hospital, got teeth, learnt to crawl etc but I can give them a record of how we found them and how wanted they were / are.


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## Frangipanii

ah that is really special. When we were doing ivf we thought of setting up an email account for our children and sending them emails about how much we wanted them ans loved them. We never stayed pregnant long enough to do it and until I just read what you wrote I had forgottten about it. Seems weird now thinking abou it. Not sure email is appropriate, I think your format is much better. A wonderful thing to give them. I thought of starting money boxes and shoe boxes with little things in but its hard to know when to allow yourself to start. Maybe I should.  maybe i will be inspired.
. x


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Would be lovely I just want things to give them something physical as a background story for our family unit. I know the reason I've only written a few times is I get scared and think what if I'm tempting fate or taking it for granted that our family is going to work out. 

It's so hard isn't it x x


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## Frangipanii

And increasingly complicated x x x


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## Wyxie

Another thing to bear in mind (which you may be aware of) is that if you're looking for a young child with a relatively straightforward history, that child probably wouldn't be in the profiles you see on CWW etc.  The children that go onto there are the ones the LA can't place easily.  With easier to place children they tend to get placed with their own LA's adopters, or within a local consortium of LAs who place with each other's adopters to avoid children being placed too closely to birth parents, so they don't have to send out profiles to try and "tempt" people, they will simply consider adopters available within their LA and find the one(s) they find most appropriate.

We never looked at CWW, because we knew that's not where our family would come from.

I'm not saying these children are problem free, but these will be the ones with less known issues, and most of the babies, if that's what you're hoping for.

I also write to our daughter, for when she's older, but I've only done it since after we went to matching panel and I knew she was coming, it felt like tempting fate to do it sooner.  We have almost nothing from her birth parents or her time in foster care to give her when she's older, so I want her to have something from us to give her when she's older to hopefully help her know how special she is.  I also have a charm bracelet for her, which used to be mine, which I've picked up a couple of charms for it to mark special occasions, and will continue to do so, to give to her when she's older. 

All the best with your journey, it's so difficult waiting all the time, but hopefully you will have your family soon.  xx


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## Frangipanii

Hi Wyxie. thanks so much for that. Your advice really helped me. ie we dont have to look and can just wait. It makes more sense I think.Especially when we want to go young. 
I am also going to start an ejournal when we have got through panel and then I can make something which is just ours.
Loving reading your advice and stories u have for people. Thanks x x x love to you. x x


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## Frangipanii

So in quite a good mood at moment. Everything is just simple ans straightforward. MY life has changed dramatically in the last four months since moving house and starting homestudy. Umbelievably so. For the better of course. 
I think about adoption everyday, my life centers on it. But now hs has finished I feel like I can just relax a bit more. I am looking foward to getting to panel and then onto the next stage!!! I just hope the next stage it not too long. 
It is funny but we have so many animals that I am trying to time myself everymorning as to how long it takes to feed them and let them out etc so that I know it can be done when we have kids and full time jobs. At the moment it can take anything from 20 minutes to over an hour. But i reakon twenty mintues is just right!!! 
I have chosen the colour to decorate both kids rooms. Well a base colour and the when we figure out the personalities of the children we can incorporate it in. So as long as it is not pink we should be ok. Which I hadnt thought if til just now!!! Do all girls want pink, oh I hope not!!!!!!  
We have to put up a fenc but because we dont want to tell the neighbours why


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## Frangipanii

we have had to blame it on the dogs. Cant say that they looked to impressed realy!!! Not sure they are that nice. All they talk is how many holidays they are going on and where they are going. Not sure I entered a competion of how great we are. And the neighbour on the other side loves my husband, but talks down to me. You should hear her its hilarious. It us like she is flirting with. 'oh hi, how are you?' in a reallyoverly friendly voice but when she speaks to me on my own its a completely differnet tone. It is funny i mean generally evryone is lovely but just not my cup of tea but they gossip by text and email. Hubby and I have often think what can we get them gossiping about. Well soon enough they will have plenty togossip about hopefully. 
Anyway best go and sort the animals out. Might skip and cause some gossip. 
xx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Put a pair of knickers on your head and skip that would push them over the edge on the gossip lines. I'm now picturing that where you live is a rural version of Barry Island off Gavin and Stacey. Don't know if you liked it. There's a scene where Gavin's parents come up and 4 neighbours come out one after the other saying one has. text. facebooked, tweeted, called very funny x x


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## Wyxie

frangipanii said:


> So as long as it is not pink we should be ok. Which I hadnt thought if til just now!!! Do all girls want pink, oh I hope not!!!!!!


No. Babies mostly want what you have. If you're a pink and girly girl, your baby probably will be I think. When they get a bit older that's a whole different thing though! We painted both spare rooms neutral colours, and put in fairly neutral carpets, and just left things like curtains and bedding until we had a child coming, so we could make it for her. I am not a pink or girly girl at all, but had a brain fuzz moment about a week before Wyxling gets here and her room ended up very, very pink. She's a complete tomboy most of the time, but she does like her room.

Wyxling makes me smile. She likes to have pretty dresses... then go climbing or get herself covered in mud, and usually decides actually jeans would be better. She never wants to dress up as a princess at play group, prefers to be a fireman or spiderman. But she looks very girly, facially, she's a really cute little girl. I think she'll be pretty when she grows up too, but then I'm biased, but her sort of looks and face shape really suit a young girl and she is an absolute cutie. It really didn't show in the photos before we met her, we only saw a couple and in retrospect, while I liked the little girl I saw, especially on one photo where she was really concentrating on something, I was actually very surprised when I first met her and saw what she really looked like. How the SWs didn't manage to find better photos to show us, I have no idea!

Your neighbours don't sound that great. We're quite lucky with ours. One side is an old couple who're very friendly. The otherside was a family but they separated and it's just the man in the house now. He's always been pleasant, and hasn't taken Wyxling's curtain twitching too badly - she's terrible for it. She tends to speculate loudly on whether any car parked outside his house belongs to a man or a lady, and I have absolutely no idea where she got this from because it definitely wasn't us! Our neighbours at our last house had screaming rows in the middle of the night on a regular basis, normally when they got home drunk. We moved into the house shortly before valentines day, and I planned a nice meal in for us, and cooked a lovely meal, and about two minutes into it, the neighbours started having the biggest screaming row. We couldn't stop laughing but it kind of killed the romance. We ended up skipping pudding and going to the pub for a couple of hours.


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Love that Wyxling curtain twiches that's hysterical x


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## Wyxie

Oh they all have something to do that embarrasses the hell out of you. Someone (I strongly suspect my husband) told Wyxling a few months ago that ladies have boobies and men do not. Of course it's not always _quite_ that straight forward! So Wyxling's habit of wandering round tescos assessing everyone she say with a "boobies, yes, lady" or "boobies, no, man" did not always get me very nice looks! These are the little things that make having kids great. They might show you up, but they also make you laugh in a way no-one else can.

Your kids are out there too, just storing up all these little gems for when you meet them.


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## Mummy DIY Diva

My little cousin was just under 3 and I was about 15 and I took her for breakfast.  She stood up on her seat pointed at the owner and shouted. Oh my gosh that is the biggest woman I ever saw. I nearly died so embarrassed but nothing you can do.  At least it's said in innocence not prejudice.  Lol x x


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## Frangipanii

Oh wow that is hilarious!!! I would have died. 
So what do you reackon Gywneth borrow some of hubbies pokerdot boxes and run round the field singing. No I havr never watched that gavin and stacy but I wish I had. It is strange not really knowing your neighbours. I loved my last ones. These just seem a bit snobby. Think they think we are too young, too animal crazy and too weird to live where we do. 

Thanks Wyxie for thst not only the advice but making me laugh. She sounds like an absolute angel!!!!! I love the idea of the muddy princess!!! I am so not into girly pinkiness. I mean dont get me wrong I wear make up, spend a fortune on my hair and I love designer handbags but I also love my wellies. Obviously I would love a girly girl if my daughter was one but until then the nursery is going green. If it needs pink flowers painting on like a meadow then fair enough!!

Thanks for both giving me the lovely thought of embarrassing children.I am cringing now thinking of the situations i am going to get landed in. Makes life amusing though!!

Just had a friend round with her lastest emergency. Quite awful really. Her husband left after eight years just when they decided to start a family and he has just got someone pregnant. She is distraught!!!! Sometimes I despair. Quite awful especially when the first friend i mentioned husband was one of our best friends and we have lost him through all this too. Complex day for us. ....
I totally changed my hair colour today and I am just not sure anyone is being honest with me that it is the wrong colour!!!! 

we are also worried about matching. I just dont get it, it is soooooo hard!!! 

love to u all x x x


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Your poor friend that is awful I would be inconsolable. I hope she finds the strength to move forward. Perhaps put those boxers on your head sing and video it for her. That would cheer anyone up  . 

Me and DH were discussing matching at the weekend in terms of what are you supposed to feel / how are you supposed to know? 

I was saying what I said to you about not believing in the one or meant to be. It leaves you in a funny place with matching. I won't be able to say these are the children I was meant to parent because I just don't believe that about the world. Very confusing x x x


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## Wyxie

frangipanii said:


> we are also worried about matching. I just dont get it, it is soooooo hard!!!


I completely understand this, it's a really hard thing to think about, and it's different for everyone.

For us, when we thought about matching we sat down and looked at what we wanted, not what we felt we could cope with. For me, just because I feel I could cope with something, doesn't mean I would choose it. Also, we felt that with very young children, if they had diagnosed issues such as FAS, autism, ADHD etc, it was going to be at the more severe end of the spectrum in order for them to detect it so young. There were certain concerns I was very wary of taking on, and we wanted to avoid a child whose parents had those problems. Although we knew that there would be unknowns with a young child, and accepted that, we weren't going to volunteer for it. We felt very strongly that we shouldn't compromise what we were looking for, in order to get a quick match, however hard we found the waiting. It was made clear to us that we could always revisit the matching pro forma in the future if we did struggle to find a match that suited.

We felt our SW had a good idea of what we were looking for. Wyxling fitted what we were looking for perfectly. I don't know about "the right child", I'm not sure you can get that from paper, I tend to feel that all you can really do on paper is rule out the wrong child. Having said that Wyxling is perfect for us, but, from my of course completely unbiased point of view, she is a very special little girl who would have made anyone else feel like that as well.

It's very hard.


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## -x-Lolly-x-

Frangi   Totally hear you on the matching front!  I'll be honest, I can't even contemplate it yet as it is still not 100% real to me yet.  When SW was reading us profiles in order to gauge our reactions we were able to say yes we would consider, what questions we may ask, no if we felt it was the wrong match etc but it was all hypothetical to me.  I don't know how I will feel when I read a real one once we are (all crossed) approved... will it suddenly all make sense?  I hope so as it is a scary scary thought! xxxxx


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## Frangipanii

thanks lovely! Hubby dragged her round yesterday to make sure that she is ok. She sometimes pretends she is ok but we know she isnt. I have my two best friends going through the most awful divorces possible. It is so tough for them. I would also be inconsolable!!! 

Yeah this matching stuff is awful and it hasnt even started yet! I just dont know how I feel about it all. So I am trying to work from what I do know. I know I want two children and I want them to be under four. 
Wow thanks Wyxie. You have really helped....ie dont work out if it is the right child just work outnif it is the wrong one. Also dont compromise. Sometimes I feel that I want this so badly thst I have to hurry it all up. But you are right i shouldnt. We are similar we want children with the least problems possibel and if that means waiting then so be it!!!  Wyxie your family sounds so perfect!!!! xxx

Lolly...have you started the internet searching or not!?!  Cww and Bmp?


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## Wyxie

I wouldn't say it was the right way, I think it's different for everyone, I'm just saying that this felt right to us.  I don't have any religious convictions, so I didn't think God had a child waiting for me, nor do I believe in "fate" leading me to the right child, so I felt like it was up to us.  Ironically, given my very scientific turn of mind and total lack of anything remotely resembling spirituality, I look at Wyxling and think yes, she was what we were waiting for all that time, we just didn't know it, although I promise you our family is so very far from perfect, and I have no idea how Wyxling is going to deal with life as she gets older.

I've heard a lot about the adoption days that now take place where prospective adopters can meet prospective adoptees.  I find this is something that raises incredibly difficult emotions for me, as I feel like I want to make a decision in my own head as to whether I think it's a good or bad thing, and I can't.  I can see the bad and the good of it.  I find the thought of putting children in that situation horrendous, because more children that attend these days don't get a family than do, and the damage in the rejection implicit in that must be huge, but I also know that it's probably some children's only hope of an adoptive family.  From an adopters' point of view I can see how that may lead to some people feeling that they can find "their child", but I also feel it may make adopters take on children with more problems than they really want to cope with, and that these placement may end up failing because of "heart over head" moments.  It's always something you can consider though.

I think there is a similar feeling when considering whether to have a birth sibling placed.  Bladelet is right on the very edge of what we thought we would consider in some respects, if he wasn't a birth sibling to Wyxling I think we would have gone ahead based on what we heard about him from the f/c, but I can't be 100% sure.  

It's so hard, and I understand how daunting it is.


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## -x-Lolly-x-

I have had a little look but not with real consideration at this stage. More to get a better idea of profiles and info we may be given. Ithink we will wait a little and see if our social worker can find any possible links or whether we need to be really proactive. What about you?


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## Mummy DIY Diva

It seems to vary a lot depending on your SW. Some are really proactive others you need to do a lot of the leg work.  You'll have to make that judgement after panel I think depending on how much you think SW is doing x x


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## Frangipanii

Found out thst sw will do a bit of matching before panel because that is how our agency wishes to speed things up. Matching in the sense of advertising us rather than giving us profiles. 
Just been reading a thread on the other section and parenting therapeutically. It has got me thinking. We are all individiually different. I never grew up feeeling normal. IS that because I am adopted or because of other unique factors in my life. My brother didnt grow up feeling normal. In fact he is far from normal te he. But when i look at my friends ans family when we were all younger do I think any of us could have been labelled with having a 'disorder' ha most probably. I think childrens behaviour can be so over analysed, no I am not saying that attachment disorder does not exist or that autisim is in the imagination but sometimes it does not have to be all that complicated. I am writing this here because I am unsure of my thoughts and how correct I actually am. I believe each child reacts differently to things in life and if you look at the behaviour under a microscope all the time you end up parenting from a detached over anxious way. Having worker with very very abused adolesents in my career i find it hard to think of them as anything but a child who has some issues because of their unfortunate past. They stilk need love, affection, and care but just in a way that respects their needs and their past. With regard to adoption, a temper tantrum or a hitting out can surely be just that rather that over analysed to be something else. I have seen plenty of birth children having them over the years and heard of plenty if birth children doing things differently, this shouldnt be over analysed well until a certain point. Sometimes I just feel like the world around us has gone label crazy. I am adopted, dyslexic, a bit of a drama queen, loved being the most outrageous child when I was younger, loved being overly friendly with everyone, dislike my brother, so does that mean if someone could have over anysed my behaviour they would labelled me with something.


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## Frangipanii

I recognise I am not a parent yet but the whole thing worries me. Someone said about making the parenting simple. Well that sounds good to me. Obviously there maybe some issues that go on for a longer time that I have to take seriously and get support with or research which I am not adverse to but my hatred of labels and the idea of defining people especially by being adopted will hold out fiercly I believe. who knows I could be wrong about it all. xx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

I always felt different and like I didn't fit in as a child. On paper my life couldn't have been smoother or simpler. Who knows why a potential million reasons none of which seem significant enough. Over arching I guess the luck  thing has a lot to do with it. Some of my siblings are very lucky and the world falls in place around them all the time (not all just some, others are normal and others more like me we cover the spectrum of life.) I guess when I was younger this made me hurt and ashamed. I was brought up to believe that being a good caring person is really important and that the world will do right by you if you are. This is a great value to give your children through morals, religion or whatever but it left me feeling that my lack of luck was because I wasn't a good enough person to deserve good luck. 

It wasn't and isn't but it really massacred my self esteem for a long time. Me and DH had a big chat about what we want to teach children in terms of life, the world and morality. I always thought I teach them how important it is to be a good person but I'm not sure this is the best thing for them. I obviously won't teach them not to care and consider others but I think I need to teach them to protect themselves first and foremost for them to survive life best. It is all so confusing isn't it   x


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## Frangipanii

Sounds like we are similar in a few things. My brother albeit a bit of a weirdo he has everything he wants and it is me left struggling with stuff!!! My life on paper other than the obvious was simple too.
You are right about bringing up children with the belief of be good get good when now our society is now so daunting we have to think about self protection!! Very confusing entirely x x


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## Wyxie

Evening ladies,

I think it's really hard to think about how exactly you will parent when you don't know your child, and you don't know what ideas they will come to you with.  It's very hard to parent a child whose personality and habits you don't know very well.  I also felt like I had to compromise a lot of my thoughts on what children should be doing pre-school just because of what Wyxling was used to doing before she came to us, and there being so much change already.  Even about things that I guess overall are quite small really like TV usage and what they're fed.  I get the feeling about to have another child placed who's used to the TV being on 24/7 having just managed to ween Wyxling down to a sensible level!  

I think before we adopted I was probably closer to the opinion that we over-diagnose children these days, maybe I see a value of it now more than I did.  Maybe adopters are more on the look out for problems, because we're more likely to expect them.  I don't find diagnoses frustrating in itself, but I really don't like them being presented as an excuse.  I'm also not convinced that things like autism and ADHD are new, just that they're better diagnosed now.  When we were younger we would have just called these the naughty kids, and I'm not sure that was entirely a good thing, but conversely it really annoys me when parents or children use their various diagnoses as an excuse, rather than using the knowledge of a problem to help a child to deal with it appropriately, as best they can.

I did find, though, that having an adopted child who at placement had some pretty severe behaviour issues left me very, very isolated.  A lot of my friends simply didn't get it because "all children have tantrums".  Which of course they do, to some degree or other, but trying to discuss why I was exhausted and incredibly worried about my daughter normally resulted in a bit of a patronising look and a "oh, the hitting stage, they all go through that" and "we just put her/him on the naughty step and she/he soon stopped doing it" along with "you'll stop being so soft before long".  The "all kids do that" thing really, really gets depressing, because it feels like our friends just thought we wanted a child for so long and now we had one, we didn't really know what to do with her, like we didn't really know what we were wanting.  Of course most children go through the smacking/kicking/hair pulling stage, but they don't do it all the time, or in the same way that Wyxling did.  I found that really disappointing and to be honest I have lost touch with a number of people over the last year because I didn't feel able to pretend everything was absolutely wonderful, but also knew that there was no real way of discussing the problems we were having.  We've also made other friends of course, and our closest friends have always understood things can be very different with our daughter, but they're not local, and we don't get to see them that much. 

Wyxling doesn't just have tantrums, she does have tantrums, actually now things are better she has a lot more what I would class as completely normal toddler tantrums, but she also sometimes gets into an absolute rage and it's a complete different level.  Luckily this is fairly rare now, but at one point it was not.  In addition, a lot of the worst behaviour came before the rages, she only got into a rage when she was stopped from hurting me or herself, and having a child who is very agitated but definitely isn't having a tantrum, and is trying their best to hurt you or them, is really hard.

The best advice we had I think was not to bother trying to work out what behaviour was because of trauma/adoption/loss and what was because she's a toddler, because it's not possible.  The same person also told us quite bluntly not to expect any quick improvements and that the behaviour problems would remain until she started to attach securely to us, and had spent more time in a household where "good" behaviour was modeled, and became the norm.  I think once I accepted Wyxling was going to be like she was for a while it became much easier to stay calm and enjoy the good times.  I felt like I needed a third party to tell me we weren't doing anything massively wrong in not being able to "fix" the problems quickly.  That really dictated how we were parenting Wyxling for quite a while, months, until she started to settle down a little bit, and we gradually moved back towards a slightly more mainstream parenting style.

One thing I will say, is that labels and diagnoses are often the only way to get help, so many people do seize on them because regardless of what it means, they do tend to go hand in hand with some support, which can be very much needed.  Wyxling isn't diagnosed with anything.  She wasn't attaching to us, but there wasn't anything definite to suggest she had an attachment disorder.  Whether that will change in the future, I don't know, but if I did think that in the future attaching a label to anything would get us help that we needed, then I wouldn't hesitate to do it.

I think it's so good that you seem to be approaching the whole issue of parenting with an open mind.

I personally won't teach my children that people get what they deserve in this life, because I don't believe they do.  But I don't think that stops me from teaching her that we should try to be good people and/or strive for the things we want.  I think my husband and I are a little apart on that one.  My husband I think would say being a good person is the most important, I would say that I think it's important, but at a certain point you have to look after family first.  I think we are gradually over our years together coming to some sort of mid-point where we can agree.

On a sort of related note, we have recently started having some Theraplay for Wyxling.  It was recommended for her by a psychologist we saw who thought she didn't need any more direct help from the mental health team, but that she would respond well.  I like the ideas of the games but have never been able to implement them in the home because Wyxling is very controlling about play, and I felt I needed some professional help to be able to use it.  I was going to write more about it and what results we're seeing after just one session when I have time, but my current feeling is that for children who are very desperate to control and uncooperative/defiant, as well as for kids with wobbly attachment to their carers, it's brilliant.

Just my, as usual, significantly more than two penneth!


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## Frangipanii

Not possible to reply to all that via my stupid phone so I am going to condense it. 

firstly thanks. I feel when I read it the third time that you on the one hand gave me plenty to mull over but on the hand confirmed to me that although I am a little(?!?!) out of my depth at the moment but that I will get there. 
I think I am going to highlight some of the points that I am digesting most thst I want to remember for the future. 
1. defining (labelling) is good if you use it in a respectful way without permance
2. dont over analyse the behaviour
3. i need more friends
4. make time to escape
5. It is not that easy but worth the reward (u have shown this in the emotion you writr with a few times)
6. Be prepared to compromise my opinions on just about everything to do with what I think parenting is. 
7.I totally agree with the over use of diagnosis excuses....my cousins have degrees in excuse the behaviour bull crap because of the label. When actually if they stopped their children eating rubbish, constantly watching a screen ans spent some quality time with them they would see a difference. I am not saying there is no issue I am saying the issues could be improved.
8. Acceptance, patience, and understanding and time are key to the settling in period albeit dont see thst as a measured amount of time....it happens when it happens. 
I will be reading this again though.
I am not sure how you prepare for any of this the right way but reading here and learning from everyone is key for me, so thanks for your part in that wyxie. Not just a great source of information but a ongoing story of success. Here comes number 2 xxx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

The isolation is the only real worry I have about adoption (this was the route of the conversation I referenced in my diary yesterday.) I was basically expressing my concerns about - exactly what you said Wyxie about the isolation from friends due to lack of understanding when things are hard, especially the it's just because your new to parenting and not experienced wonder parents like us, we told you how hard it was, throw them on the naughty step, just do what we do  blahhhhhhh blah blah. Driven out of ignorance and lack of understanding. 

DH doesn't really get this he doesn't really have a need to connect and confide in anyone other than me. (That sounds unhealthy I promise it isn't he is literally by far the sanest person I have ever met it's one of the reasons I love him so much.) His attitude is just ignore them / don't discuss parenting or children with them. I just think that's a lot easier for him who has work etc and other things. I have always worked with children / would be a full time Mum so what else are people going to talk to me about? I guess I struggle to picture how life will ever just slot back into place and I won't feel a million miles away from those round us. (I do like my family and friends by the way promise). 

How did you deal with the isolation Wyxie? All I can picture is everyone we know saying we told you that it wasn't as wonderful / important / desirable as you thought / you should have made the most of your time just the two of you - when I'll need support, understanding and positivity.


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## Frangipanii

Isolation is quite a big worry for me also. Your Dh sounds wonderful. Wish mine was that calm and easygoing. He can be but sometimes he is a stress head. 
I am fairly isolated already. I have close friends....well three, and my mum who is my best friend. And my husband who is my best friend 75% of the time. But other than that that is me. and of those people one has kids and very crazy living arrangements so wont be taking my children around there much. the other two are recently single and party too hard...well all three party too hard....so it will be me and the kids. I am volunteering so hoping to make new friends as is my dh ans he is also hoping to make new friends. We have other friends but they live away. Oh dear get the violins out now!!! I think I am a bit too isolated now realky. Fortunately I live in a nice villsge where  the average age of mum wih young kids is most likely quite high...well i hope so. I am going to out my self out there and get too meet people at toddler grouos and stuff but its a long way off so need to lay some foundations now realy. I think it is a normal worry though dont you. It is not like anyone has a perfect life!!!
Who knows....
Hubby is having a financial panic at moment.. ie have we got enough. We have some financial support at the moment from my great aunt but he is feeling overwhelmed by not being the bread winner. He is having a mare over it actually. Wants to get a job but he has got to get these qualifications so he can provide later on so it is really annoying me. Why cant he just accept the help. INstead he is trying to work a deal with another famiky member to invest and make profit to pay Aunt back. I just want a peaceful life with no deals and no issues. Working and money with family is a bad idea and causes alsorts of tension!!! I dispair! He is waiting on a reply this weekend and it is driving me mad. Cos if they say no then well what is going to happen to the relationship. so annoying. Although I do respect dh's feelings but I think....have patience and build foundations for the future. 
never mind just have to wait and see. x x


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## Wyxie

Isolation can be hard, but to be honest I haven't been more isolated than I have over the last few years.

I'm not a girly girl, my hobbies are mostly male dominated, I've never been awesome with girls, I don't watch soaps, or much TV at all, most girly hobbies don't appeal and I'm used to being quite self-sufficient.  I've never really  The blokes I know from my hobbies are great though, and oddly, have been very supportive of myself and my husband (we run a games clan and have done for a long time - in fact online gaming is how we met) in a way I would simply never have expected.  I chat to them online (why I'm often online in the evenings, I do troll forums in the "downtime" we have), and a couple of the blokes have been awesome.  They don't think kids are easy - maybe that's just a man thing - and I guess they treat me like I know what I'm talking about so if I say my daughter is giving me hell, they just accept that's the way it is, for whatever reason they accept what I say at face value and that's been invaluable for me.  That's a weird one to explain to folks who aren't into that sort of thing.

I have a handful of very close friends who live a long way away, but they have been fantastic, and are generally available online as well.  A couple have been less awesome but I've kept in touch because I think I've known them long enough and we've been close enough for long enough that it's worth persevering.

I guess because of my hobbies, habits and personalities I have always been a pretty solitary person on a day to day basis and I'm OK with that.  I wish I had more girl friends nearby and there are times when I would want a hug.  My husband and I are not enough for each other entirely in this respect.  He and I deal with stress in very different ways and they don't always complement each other.  We're very close, but I need to talk more than he does, I'm happy for that to be in writing though.

When things have been really hard I just write - diaries or online - it helps me to get my head clear.

I always kept in touch with our prep group, and they've been incredibly supportive.

Otherwise, if all else fails, open the wine!

I don't mean to seem frivolous, I don't mean it like that, I just mean that my relationships and friendships are so far away from what would be considered normal for a woman in my situation, it's hard to really answer.

On the really bad days, I just last until Wyxling goes to sleep, and she does nap heavily when she fights a lot, she just wears herself out, then I crash too, sometimes I just doze in the chair in her room and cuddle her, because for a long time it was the only time I could.  It was a good idea too, as she gradually got used to waking up in my arms and that extended to wanting to go to sleep there, and that kind of moved us on a lot.  It was also a good idea for me, because I needed that, a lot.  Even at the hardest times when she was sleeping in my arms it reinforced that she was just a baby, regardless of everything else.  When she's been really tough I've slept a lot though, whenever she did really, it worse both of us out.

Don't know.  I don't pretend to know the right answer, I just tried to work out what works for us, but I think a contingency plan is good.

Most areas have an AUK support group, and I'd like to go to ours, but have never been able to get for various reasons to do with my husband's work.  That's likely to change soon and I plan to start going.

Edited to add:  With a lot of the people I found issues with, girls I knew locally with children, I didn't talk about the details much, it was counter productive.  If people asked how it was going, I would just say Wyxling was wonderful and we loved her very much, but that things were very tough for her right now.  I often had to bail early from things or not go because she just couldn't cope and I stopped making excuses for it, just gave it as a fact.  Lots of excitement and disruption was really hard for her, she struggles without her routine, as you'd expect when everything has changed.  I found assuming people would understand tended to get more palatable responses!


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## Frangipanii

We are different and similar then. I am not a girly girl. I mean I love hand bags and make up but I love being outdoors, walking in lakes, watching rugby etc. And I have male friends too. My hubbies best friend is now one of mine! 
How do you mean gaming?  Just curious. 
I can do the solitary thing but have to be careful that I dont recluse to much which I have done a few times in the past. 
I do some writing also infact I have started writing a book...not too be published of course just a book of my waffle that as you say clears my head. 
I agree though after everything that has happened in my life I dont have a normal anything. I didnt fit in with the norm anywhere. But what is normal?
How do you see adoption now you have done it, harder than you thought, worth every grey hair? I mean obviously you are doing it again but if someone said use three adjectives to describe it. what would they be. 
I suppose you have had to adjust everythin to suit your lo's behaviour and rightly so but it makes it hard to settle in with other people. 
It is good that we can all chat on here...i would be at a loss otherwise. it is so usefull to moan, read and learn. 
x x


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## Wyxie

Online gaming, FPS, flight sims and strategic games, mostly.

I understand what you mean about not reclusing. I have gone too far in the past as well, now I'm careful to keep a good balance. In all honestly some of the Mums I've met since having Wyxling have been really good for me, I kind of fell into our local NCT group for kids that were born about 2 months before Wyxling, and there are a few older Mums in there, which has worked really well for me. One of the ladies in the group is considering adopting, as she's probably too old now to easily conceive a second. She was asking about what it was like and one of the things I said was that it was hard, suddenly having a toddler but not having the people you'd meet along the way to getting a baby, and finding yourself quite isolated, but that she probably would find that bit easier as she was already a Mum and knew lots of people locally. Since then I have suddenly got lots of people being quite friendly and I have a suspicion she may have given a few people a bit of a poke to make an effort and I am quietly grateful for that. I only see them a couple of times a week but it's a few hours "normal" time and their kids are good for Wyxling.

I find writing soothing.

I didn't know how hard it would be. I didn't know how I would cope with it. My husband had faith in me, in us, and that meant a lot to me. I think it's harder than I thought it would be bringing in what was meant to be a straightforward child, but we've dealt with it better than I could have imagined, and for all things have been hard for us, Wyxling was worth the struggle and I really mean that. I think we'll always have a struggle but she is incredible. I don't think it's just as a Mum I say that. It's wonderful to have a daughter who has something about her, and that's hard to explain, but she does.

Some things are hard. The stress involved in seeing friends and family can be tough, but it is getting easier. That's been really, really hard though, to not be able to see our family without being incredibly stressed and them just not getting what was happening, because on the surface (in her charming and mega-controlling mode when she's getting everyone to say yes to everything she wants) Wyxling _seemed_ OK to them and they knew she kicked off for me when I took her off to clean/change her etc and that she was mega-defiant with me, but she was charming with them so they blind-sided it. Now she's much more normal and things are much easier, and family see the wobbles too, which helps. The last few months this has been a lot easier and yesterday we spent a lovely day with some of our closest friends and their son, which was just lovely.

Yes, absolutely worth it. I can't even begin to describe how worth it. I also feel like I should stress that our experience isn't really that normal for a child that little, and it is not my intention to try and scare people or put people off. Talk to people who have smoother transitions! A lot of people have a much smoother transition, and Wyxling's fostering situation was unusual.

But, for me it's good to have it in the back of your mind, I think, the "what ifs" because I have a plan for them they are less scarey, at least for me.

I don't like handbags. I do have a couple of jewellery bits. Rugby? Really? Me too. I have been teaching Wyxling about rugby. She loves it. Moaning is good for us!


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## Frangipanii

Yes really I love handbags and rugby! ha ha imagine that combination!!!!

You have given me some hope Wyxie that I will be able to try and get friendly with other mums in the area, I although if you knew me would laugh, am quite shy in new circumstances! I have to make an effort though I suppose and I am ready for that, well anything is better that the isolation I am feeling at the moment, but I am a bit poorly and feeling sorry for myself. There is a place where I can go to to meet other mums where I know the people who run it, but and I dont mean to sound snobby but they are a little rough and I am not sure that I want my children to meet their children. Oh gosh how bad do I sound! 

I also find writing soothing but would die if anyone ever read what I write it is rubbish, but then I have not written for public consumption! Do you just write for yourself?

it must be difficult with your family, i think I will be hyper-senstive to start with and then I hope to relax into things! but who knows cos I havent done this before!

Lovely to hear how worth it is, the love you have for her trickles out of your words like the smell of honey blossom. How is the process going with number two!

Just this morning have started decorating nursery number 1, we are going for neutral colours and then adding personality stuff later. 

Been a rubbish week so far but improving somewhat, hubby is really getting into the thought of being a Dad, not saying he wast before hand but just that he is starting to feel how real it is.

Just so much missing out of my understanding of what happens next but I am very impatient. 

happy sunny ness today! xx


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## Wyxie

I hope you're starting to feel better.  You have sunshine too?  We did today, and it was lovely.

Yes, I write for myself, mostly.  I also write to my daughter, for when she's older, occasionally.

It is very hard not to be hyper-sensitive to start with!

I am dreadful at socialising with other women, but actually, having Wyxling made me put the effort in where I otherwise might have been happy to stand back.  I know that if I don't make the effort Wyxling will miss out, as she relies on me at this age to make friends, in order that she has other children to do things with.  Essentially I have to make friends for her, and that makes me try harder.

I was going to reply more but my cats have just brought a live mouse in and lost the damn thing!  Action is required!  Last time they did this we found it in the next morning in my daughter's toy box - much to her amusement.  Take care, and try not to worry too much.  xx


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## Frangipanii

Wyxie, hope u found mouse ok Yeah i feel a bit better. The way you write it is hard to think of you struggling to socialise. I have had my moments of that this week. 

rant time.....
so we expressed an interest and I know it is far too early but nobody said we couldnt. Sw said nothing would happen but still keeps them on their toes.  My concern is how does someone know what my hubby and I think is cute? Seriously.....what is cute to one person is certsinly not cute to another. We showed our social worker ages ago what is cute to us. But how will they remeber!!!
Hubby is doing my head in...he is quite unsettled. Think he is finding the realisations of being a Dad hard. But wow I wish he would man up and settle down. Driving me mad!!
Waiting.... Our sw keeps telling us we wont have to wait long and that links will come quickly...now I am thinking its lip service! He is quite frank with everything but everyone else is waiting so how can it be . Confused and I would rsther have the truth!! Oh well have to wait for that I suppose!!!
xx rant done.


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Hi Hun, 

Hope the sun is shining on your farm and animals it isn't here  . I think a little freak out it very common among DH's they are strange creatures aren't they. 

I think if SW has been honest so far then there is no need to doubt him now. In my experience people are either straight talking or blaggers. He probably knows of things in the background that he can't discuss yet / doesn't want to mention too soon. Exciting that you have expressed some interest   . I shall wait to hear how it all goes. 

For me I will struggle to put match finding in SW's hands and not take some control myself. It just isn't me. I plan, think and take control of all aspects of me life. It's a very strange one x x x x


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## Frangipanii

Thanks Gywneth. 
I agree I am going to have to leave my faith in sw. But it is hard to leave your faith in someone else. As u say !! x


Afm today....well I think I need some help. All this ivf and adoption, waiting is taking its toll. And now i am at a continuous low. Hubby despairs, mum patronises and I sulk!! I am not depressed as in completely down. But I am bursting into tears, feeling lethargic and driving myself crazy. I have no money with which to go on holiday or anything like that. I just cant stop feeling sorry for myself!! After everything I have been through I thought this would be ok!!! Pathetic I know. Hubby and I dont socialise loads anymore cos we dont drink and my only friends are going through divorces or having issues or have no idea what this adoption stuff is doing to us. 
Sorry for the pathetic me crap but i dont know what to do. 
x


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Give yourself a break honey!  Did you keep in touch with anyone from Prep? can you meet up and allow yourself a glass of wine and a chat? Sounds like you really need to chat to someone who understands.  Big hugs, this will work out but the waiting is just part of it all, like pregnancy I guess. xxx

Also, I really don't think it could hurt to chat to a doctor or councillor, just to chat it through with someone non judgemental?  No shame is admitting you can't do it all on your own.


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## Wyxie

I found that the waiting involved in adoption was awful, and I was as low as I had been when I'd been having IVF.  At the start of the process I was bubbling along OK, but then once the assessment was over and we were waiting I was back to square one in many respects.

Have you thought about trying to get in touch with other adopters in your area, or people in a similar situation, if you're not still in touch with anyone in your prep group?

Take care and sending big hugs, even if they're only virtual.

Regarding the waiting, we gave ourselves a timescale during which we would leave it in our SW's hands, and agreed that if we hadn't heard anything after that, we would speak to her again about why a match couldn't be found, and start looking ourselves.  It gave us a deadline in our own heads which sort of helped us to say OK, well, until then let's just get on with things, and if anything happens sooner, then great.  Wasn't perfect, to be honest, but it did help.

Wyxie  xx


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## Frangipanii

thanks for the support!!!! I am going to consider the suggestions so thanks x x x


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Rubbish isn't it. PM me if you want. x x


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## -x-Lolly-x-

A lot of what you say rings true for me at the moment too Frangi. We have lived for home study sessions and the building up has been exciting. But now I almost feel dread. Dread of the unknown, the waiting, the trusting others to make or break your future. We have faith as there is no other choice. But I am constantly up and down at the moment when I feel I should be so happy. And then questioning myself makes me down   all I can think at this stage is the emotional turmoil we have been through is catching up. Final push now. We can do it together


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## Frangipanii

Decided to cure my boredom with a new gym membership and a online course, decorating, and I have vhanged my voluntary work and I have talked things out with hubby. So far so good so thanks people for the support. 
40+ sleeps til panel. Hopefully then I will be prepared for the even bigger wait!! 
xxx


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## Sq9

Sending   I find writing helps too - I always wanted to write a novel so i did and found it really helped keep me sane when I wasn't getting pregnant month after month.  Have you thought about putting your writing into come thing more structured and turning your experiences into a book? It is amazing the sense of achievement you get from finishing a book even if it never gets published.  Exercise helps too so gym membership will hopefully help - decorating course sounds great too.  Take care - panel will be here before you know it then your lo(s) will nearly be with you xx


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## Frangipanii

Hey thanks. Not sure I have the intelligence nor the sense to write a book. But it would be amazing. MAybe one day. I have enrolled on a online course. Dont need the qualifications but helps eith the boredom. I am feeling okish now. Glad you had a lovely holiday. I enjoyed hs so relish it while you can. ha ha.... thanks again x x x


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## Frangipanii

Wow the days are going fast. Its a good thing but makes you really think. With everything going on on here and a few people who have panel before us it is really eye opening as to what may happen. I do not hold one bit of certainty as to gettting through panel. I dont agree with feeling like that. I feel scared, a little optimistic but I am also a realistic. Bad things do happen and could happen. As poor UL is going through totally undesevedly it seems. 
Other than my hubby as become obsessed with running ans I am soo looking forward to the gym whib I start at next week. As a fatty it is going to take some going but I have lost 15 lbs so far with minimal effort so hope the exersize does me good. Heart and mind. 
I so want this and cant wait til I know one way or another. x x x


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## -x-Lolly-x-

I have always been like this Frangi.  We protect our hearts as they have been hurt too many times.  Nothing is certain in this world.  We just have to try our very best and hope with everything we have.  I remember freaking out after buying stairgates!  What if it is a no?  What will I do with four stairgates?!  They are unopened in the garage!!  We have nothing else, have done nothing else!!  Daren't until we are   given the green light!!

It is natural to feel as we do i'm sure, especially after the recent awful news which as you say, is so undeserved.  It makes you question the system a little bit more and plants extra worries.  

The gym will be great for you, give you another focus and will release those feel good hormones that we all need at the moment!  You are doing so well with your weight loss, keep going!

Big   to you xxx


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## Frangipanii

It is very reassuring when other people feel the same it makes worry less lonely!!! How many sleep left for you? One or two?? Fingers crossed but it seems no more could be done. If we have done everything that is asked of us how can it go wrong. Only time will tell. 
We have only bought stairgates and a car seat or should I say my mum gave them too us as she bought them for some relatives ans they didnt need them. Not wanting to tempt anything I suppose. 
We have a while yet and there are a few bits not even sorted yet so we shall see. I have thought maybe we will get delayed but through fault of the admin as stuff could have been done in January and not left till now. oh well...it is what it is. 
I cannot wait for the gym to open. It has a wonderful jazcuzzi and spa so I shall spend lots of time in there. 
cant wait to hear your news. x x x


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## Frangipanii

Well hubby is mowing the lawn, I am studying(well supposed to be) and the weather is lovely. I have just been reading about nature versus nurture and although I already thought this it reaffirms it for me that I believe it is very much nurture. In fact I would say perhaps 85% Nurture and 15% nature. I am soooo like my parents. My dad is loud, troublesome, nosey, objective and untraditional and my mum is sweet, caring, funny, silly, and intelligent. Now I dont have all of those charateristics but I am certainly some of them and I have some knowledge of my bio mum and she can suffer from depression and although I dont suffer from depression I do let things get on top of me sometimes and need an escape mechanism. So therefor I think nurture wins over nature and yes I realise the sperm donor part of my dna is missing but if you knew me you'd agree... hubby gets (a little) annoyed that i am so like my parents because we can be quite aggressive and talk very honestly and openly and we can be loud, which he is definately not!
Well only so many sleeps til panel and I am nervous  but in a way I am not going to quite believe it till I actually gets here. I was told this was never going to happen and now here I am, so until I hear it I aint going to believe it. 
And although my prep group have been matched really quickly I am not going to take that as it means it will happen to me either, cos life does not work that way! I stupidly started counting sleeps and I am now regretting it, as it is going slower! But I have now lost 18lbs and the joy of that is I havent even started at the gym, I havent cut out chocolate, or chips but I have started to have smaller portions, and I have totally cut out alcohol for 5 months now!!!! Wow life is a changing , lets hope it continues looking positive.
xx


----------



## Frangipanii

Finally hubby is starting to grace the reality of adoption!!! He is even going to help me decorate.  
everyone seems quite excited with stuff at moment. Makes for reflective thinking!  :*) but I find I am a bit too reflective sometimes! I try to turn my brain off but it doesn't work ever! But then evidently I can be thoughtless
too! I don't profess to be perfect and anyone who does is an idiot!!
f


----------



## Frangipanii

Panel in less than 25 days!!!


----------



## Sq9

It will be here before you know it


----------



## Frangipanii

Thinking we can actually go on holiday! Well if we get through panel! But now we have to decide where we need to go!!! Ah well that's fun! So far on the list is Egypt, Goa, Athens or phi phi islands or maybe just maybe Cuba, the Caribbean, or Mexico. Anything I was born to travel!!!! Xxx


----------



## Frangipanii

Thanks Sq9!!! How's things going with you x x


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva

I think a holiday would be perfect x x


----------



## Sq9

Things ok with us but feels like it is dragging a bit now.  We've got 3 more hs sessions then the individual sessions, but sept / oct just seems so far away and i'm panicking about whether we will be approved - being calm and patient isn't something I'm very good at!  
Holiday is so the way forward!  We are thinking about going away again in nov for hubby's birthday.  We are thinking even in the unlikely event we were matched soon after panel (if we get approved  ), we could still squeeze in a week away before intros.  
Take care xx


----------



## Frangipanii

It will be over sooner than you know it!! I quite enjoyed hs but was glad when it was over cos it felt
like something was actually happening! If there was an issue with your application or anything wrong you social worker would have told you by now! After every hs if no concerns are raised that means you are closer to approval... It is not in there interest to hide it from you as they are supposed to tell you there and then! 
Yeah definitely a holiday before mAtching!!! Should be a requirement!!! Xxx

we still have two stupid stupid references missing and it could delay panel! Peed off!!! The agency is partly to blame as they could have requested them earlier and obviously the places they are coming from are to blame as they are not showing any consideration!!! I am not sure what is going to happen!  
find out on Monday I suppose!!!
x


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva

Sorry about that hun rubbish hope everyone pulls their finger out x x x


----------



## Frangipanii

It is crap! They are even interesting! One from a place I volunteer at at 16-22 and another I worker at for
six months! Driving me mad!! X x x


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva




----------



## -x-Lolly-x-

Really sorry to hear that, it is infuriating and worrying and horrible as ultimately you don't have much control  

How is the chicken mansion coming on by the way? Can imagine you out and about with your animals on a glorious day like this. It may feel like it but it honestly won't be too long until you have some little helpers


----------



## Frangipanii

Yeah it is very frustrating! But as you say not much I can do!! 

Chicken mansion is muddy because the ducks decided to make a mess!!! Yeah it is lovely outside now!! Just washing the eggs to put outside in the honesty box!!! Keeps life entertaining!!! Can't wait for helpers!!!!
how are you? Are you waiting or still celebrating!!! X x x


----------



## -x-Lolly-x-

Oh fresh eggs, lovely. Beats my trip to the supermarket last night to get some to have with our Gammon! 

Celebrating is over for now, I guess now we wait. It is so hard to buy or plan when we just don't know who, how old, when. And I like to plan!!   we returned our consent forms so will be on adoption 22 and national register from next week xxx


----------



## Frangipanii

Wow so exciting!!!! Fingers crossed for you!!! Yeah I am a planner too!! So you have my sympathies!!!! X x x


----------



## -x-Lolly-x-

You'll be joining me in the not-yet-planning-but-desperate-to stage very soon


----------



## Frangipanii

Ok
so some last minute thinking before panel next week! 
My plan is to have two kids and when time is right (for us all) go back to my career part time. Then go for another adoption. For one child or maybe move abroad(can't imagine that as not sure I could leave my family) and then continue with career! Eventually setting up my own organisation (had idea for years but no courage or money). All the while being a supportive mother and wife and daughter! And being able to do my hobbies at least once a year!! 
Ha ha wrote it down now be interesting to see if any of it comes true!! And obviously there is my bucket list I want to complete also!!! In an ideal world of course!!
however I know judging by my own past it can't always be perfect(!?!) but you got to roll with the punches and dive with the jabs!! 
Wonder if I will sleep tonight!!


----------



## Frangipanii

Probably the wrong type of thinking! I should be worrying about questions etc but there is time
yet!


----------



## crazyspaniel

It's good to have a plan Franji!!  
Hope you get some sleep tonight, sleep seems to have disappeared from my life too at the moment...
Ah well sheer exhaustion will take over soon I hope xx


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva

It's good to have a plan I hope it all falls into place at some point in the future however long it all takes x x x


----------



## Sq9

Good luck for tomorrow   xx


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva

Tomorrow will go wonderfully I am sure x x


----------



## Emma-is-a-mummy

Good luck tomorrow honey xxxxx


----------



## -x-Lolly-x-

Go Frangi, go Frangi, go Frangi, go Frangi!!!


----------



## Wyxie

Good luck, will be thinking about you tomorrow.  I hope everything goes well and let us know of course!


----------



## crazyspaniel

All the best for tomorrow Franji xx


----------



## Frangipanii

thank you thank you thank you!! We are as prepared as we will ever be and as nervous as we have ever been!! Will
Let you know tomorrow!!! Love love to you all and thanks for being my friends! X x


----------



## -x-Lolly-x-

It's here hunny, the sun is shining and I'm feeling good for you. Good luck and lots of love to you and hubby. Know go get that yes


----------



## MummyAuntieKatie

Try not to be nervous (ha, as if, it's terrifying I know), they will love you and they are not there to make life hard!  Looking forward to good news later xx


----------



## Frangipanii

Wow what a week!!! Being approved at panel is an amazing feeling! But really there is a long way to go! I am terrified of the next stage as it is permanent and final!! 
Talking to dh about it and the family we realised it was the most daunting thing ever!!! It was like being in the board room of the apprentice only ten times worse!!! However we did good!! Hubby said he was gobsmacked by how brilliant I did with the question! But I didn't I just did a  nervous waffle!! Pulled out some good phrases though like mind mindedness and child centred parenting!!! There was 10 people at panel! Our social worker was interviewed for 40 minutes and us for a bout 20!
Since then we hAve emailed/rung close friends ans family, and I got to tell my brother from another country(we are his surrogate family) what has happened as he flew over on business from
Singapore! What an amazing moment!
we are ringing sw to take one CPR forward! In one sense I have my hope up and in another I don't! So we shall have to see! Nerve wracking! Oh and we have started shopping!!! What an amazing feeling!! 
Lovely support on here!! Amazing!! X x


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva

Good luck with the cpr hope it goes well x x


----------



## MummyAuntieKatie

Ooh exciting!  When you see a CPR you are really drawn to how can you help but get excited, it's so hard, you don't want to get your hopes up and yet you are so excited that the LO(s) could be your child or children.  It's a very strange mix of emotions isn't it.

Shop till you drop Frangi!!


----------



## Frangipanii

Ok so I know this is uncharted territory! But I am totally loosing the plot!!!! I cannot get my head around it at all! Never seen my hubby so happy!!! I am walking around like a zombie going 'oh crap' 
I thought last week's panel was bad but now my god my head is complete mush!!! I don't know what is happening! Crying in supermarkets! Staring into space! Having a tight chest when I think of them ans getting palpitations when I wonder what they are like! I didn't get any feelings for the other profile so it must mean something!!!
Oh well time to be patient now!!! 
God I am so scared!!!


----------



## MummyAuntieKatie

Fran I know what you mean!  When we looked on BMP I liked some profiles but nothing really grabbed me, then when SW showed us Bluebird I almost burst into tears right there, I had this rush of adrenalin it was so strange.  We never looked at another, there was nothing about him that wasn't right for us (on paper!) and he was adorable in his pic... Well, now it's nearly here and I am getting scared but excited and I can't wait to read all your news in the coming weeks xxxxx


----------



## Frangipanii

Auntie Kate!!!! Two sleeps to go!!!! Omg so excited for you!!!! Wow!!! I think we are experiencing similar things!!! 
We'll lady I have watched your journey for so long and u deserve such Joy!!! Congrats!!! Cannot wait to find out how it all goes!!! X x x


----------



## -x-Lolly-x-

I LOVE how excited you are hun, can tell by all the !!!!!!     Enjoy it lovely, you deserve to, can'y wait to read more updates! Praying these are your forever babies   xxxxx


----------



## MummyAuntieKatie

Haha!  I'm exited too!!! And very scared!

Thanks Fran, you are lovely.  Really hoping these are your special LO's!!! xxx


----------



## Frangipanii

Had an awful week! Hope things get better very soon!!! Although it is all to do with hormones being all over the place!!!! 
I hope we get some good news  next week!!! And maybe i can stop worrying about it all! I thought waiting for panel was hard! This is torture! 
X


----------



## MummyAuntieKatie

I know how you feel, when we thought we might be up against another couple for Bluebird it was torture but we kept telling ourselves that what will be will be, like with everything we think it happens for a reason, if these are not your children it's because yours are still looking for you.  Having said that, it will happen and we all have everything crossed for you, because no matter how often people say 'what will be will be' I know it doesn't help!!! lol


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva

hoping the nice weather means a better weekend than week and you hear something concrete very soon x x x x


----------



## Sq9

Sending you lots of   .


----------



## Frangipanii

Tomorrow we are meeting los social workers. Nerves, doubts, worries, brain ache!
Feel worse than I thought I  could! Not sure i know what i want! 
Of course i want them! I am just nervous as hell about the whole thing! 
Anyway its nearly here i suppose! 
Night


----------



## Emma-is-a-mummy

Good luck today honey, thinking of you xxxx


----------



## crazyspaniel

Good luck Franji


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva

You will be wonderful sending lots of   and  .


----------



## -x-Lolly-x-

Go Fran and hubby!!! Have faith in your ability to love and parent these children. You will be great lovely


----------



## Guest

Good luck - you will be great  xxxxx


----------



## Frangipanii

Just about recovered from yesterday! It was really quite wonderful! Our social worker said she was amazed how little they asked us and it was evident how happy they were! In fact they didnt want to leave, it was like having friends over for lunch and cake!! 
We are deliriously happy! Even though it has not officially  been confirmed yet but social worker said it was obvious so why not enjoy!!!!
My little urchins will be home in September!!!
Strange feeling realky! Dont know how I would have survived this journey without ff! Thanks for support x x x x


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva

So happy Fran you and lolly in it together every step of the way x


----------



## -x-Lolly-x-

Mummy Frangi   so so happy for you! And to be going through the next and best phase of this journey with you


----------



## Sq9

So pleased for you fran. Not long now til you will become a family of 4. Amazing


----------



## Frangipanii

Lying in bed listening to hubby snoring wondering about the future. I have dreamt of being a mummy for sooo long but because of the losses I still feel worried something could go wrong. It seems to good to be true. For years now I have thought on my black days that it was karma but for what I was never sure. It was like a puzzle I couldnt quite see to finish. Here I was not perfect but certainly decent and I couldnt have kids. it was hard being at fault. ..wonky bits. But I dont think I deserved what I have been through. It saddens me greatly but at the
Same time I think about what I have done with my time and although it seemz like I have wasted alot going through ivf I had to know. Sometimes I worry that I will never quite get what I want because I find it hard to enjoy the here and now...something I am going to attempt to do! This is the next stage of my journey! I feel in a rush to get to the start kine but at same time feel terrified I am not ready! Which is beyond stupid! 
Maybe 11.30 on a saturday night is not the best time to contemplate thingz! 
Who knowz, 
Maybe being scared is normal and a good thing!  
I dont need to prove anything to anyone I just have to learn to live in the here and now and be confident that if I dont know what I am doing then I will learn! 
♥♡♥♡♥♡


----------



## -x-Lolly-x-

frangi, late night thinking time is a speciality of mine, and pretty dangerous!! Lots of what you say rings true, certainly the fear that is could all go wrong. Although I'm sure it is quite natural to be scared. I want social worker to send weekly messages, 'yep, all is still good!' to ease the anxieties. Living for the future is something I have done for years too. The here and now has usually been somewhat crappy. But now that future that has been a dream for so long is nearly here and I start to wonder, can I cope? Will I be good enough? Will it be all I imagined? I know now I will instill great pressure on myself, it's what I do, if it's not perfect I must do better. I know I have to get out of that mindset immediately, it is highly unrealistic. I am so excited and so I'm love with our baby girl, I need this to be ok. I am sure we will both be fine, great in fact. I stupidly hope that when I am a mummy all these years of worries will melt away, but who am I kidding, a load of new ones will manifest!! But it will be so worth it. In this together intro buddy


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva

You will both be fantastic.  I am sure fears are completely normal.  We worry because we care x x


----------



## Frangipanii

Seems we are in a mirrored world Lolly!!!! I still cant get my head round it all. I tooooooo want weekly messages for definitely!!!!! Someone reassure me that I can call them my children!!! Strange isnt it!! You have echoed my other fear that old worriez will only be replace by new ones!!! So true!!! Lets just agree that it will albeit for me the years of wanting to be  mum will be over and no pain can measure up to that!! Will it be what we dreamed of maybe not but its gotta be better than wondering!!! 
Gywneth u are right we do worry cos we care!! I dont want to make a hash of this I want I
to make a good mummy not perfect cos it doesnt exist but a good mummy!!!
Today a friend asked why I had accepted second hand children's things!!! I was flabbergasted!!! I feel like have failed partly already!!! We were given  soo much yesterday from a teacher my husband know. The stuff is clean, hardly used and nearly new.  Never would I take some things second hand (ugh)obviously but I didnt realise it was frowned upon. We are starting from scratch and obviously having two kids...it would cost a fortune. Am I doing something wrong!! We have new beds and a pram from m&p and bedding sets etc. The second ha d stuff is some elc toys and some hardly worn monsoon/ next clothing which may not fit! Oh and a high chair!! Surely that aint bad. 
Other than that we went clay pigeon shooting with a some friends and had other round for tea!!! 
Lots of positives. 
Glad to be surrounded by lovelies on here. And be intro buddies with Lolly and of course follow all the news from so many other!! Xxxxxx


----------



## Emma-is-a-mummy

Hi honey, 

Of course you can call them your children there coming home to you, sw's want you to be there mummy and daddy. 

And as for second hand don't listen to anyone honey accept all you can because children cost a fortune we've only got little man and he costs us a fortune so id hate to think what 2 would cost. Plus they won't need them for long if its clothes they grow so quickly and toys they get bored really quickly so you'll be passing them on again. 

Little man has been home 6 weeks and I've already had to sort out his wardrobe he's grown out of loads and have a big bag ready to pass onto my friend when I next see her. 

I know it's hard and even up until mp I couldn't believe it was really happening. 

But they are yours and they'll be home before you know it, and that goes for you lolly too 

Hugs xxxxx


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva

What a weird comment   As number 3 of 6 and having loads of cousins the only new things I ever had was birthday and Christmas presents. I swear the  I  never had a new item of clothing till I started earning and  bought them myself   Did this do my any harm? No. I can honestly say that second hand stuff caused me no issues. 

Me and DH as you know also want siblings I've worked out if we bought everything new we'd need about £9000   unless we manage to grow a money tree between now and AP then ebay it is. 

Handy tip - Most toys will come up like brand new if they go through the washing machine ask any teacher. Pillow case tie the top and ta dah brilliant. Lego in particular but basically anything that doesn't use batteries. 

To be honest from having worked with children one of the issues that they all have is that they all have very little respect for material possessions because they just think people  buy new all the time. Perhaps point out to your strange commenting friend that parents passing items on it not only sensible, practical and environmentally friendly but helps children realise the importance of sharing and taking care of things. x x x


----------



## Frangipanii

Emma and Gywneth,  I read your your replies earlier today but they have been echoing around my  brain all day!!
Emma, you are right they are my children and I need to believe in that more!!! But it is going to be hard til mp. Oh well reading yours and others news keeps me going!!!! Thanks for the reassurances. 
Gywneth, thanks I do feel better and I am glad I am going to be a good mummy!!! I am just going to see the second hand stuff as an extra as it was never a base anyway!! Funny buying stuff I have no idea what to get so having some stuff made me feel better!!! Your £9000 budget sounds fascinating!!! I am so intrigued as to whats on it!!!! We think we will be spending around four on nurseries and house stuff and about four+ on home improvements although we have  been told to do that so have no choice makes me cry lol!! 
Anyway all js good in adoption world  I remind myself daily to not get into the indoctrination of it and also that ever family is individual and independent to the adoption world eventually. I havent lived as an adopted person I have lived as a person(> who is adopted>). Its very important to me, it is also important that it is the family who brings you up who is your family. It is not about  dna. Not that history should be forgotten but it shouldn't be at the forefront of living!! Waffling again!!!! And tired so lots of mistakes! 
Off away tomorrow feels a little traumatic leaving birds but have to get some practise in for introductions. So two nights in Edinburgh is a good start!!! 
Love to all.


----------



## Emma-is-a-mummy

Have an amazing time I'm Edinburgh it's one of my face places I just love it especially at Christmas  

Big hugs mummy frangipani!!!!!

Xxxxx


----------



## Frangipanii

Thanks lovely! Yes I love it, one if many places my heart is in love with! Xxxx


----------



## MummyAuntieKatie

Blimey Fran!  My friend has given me her son's entire age 2-3 wardrobe she'd been keeping in boxes in the loft!  He's 7 now!  We've got loads and it's all second hand.  We've also been given loads of books and toys.  Kids clothes are so often still in great condition when they outgrow them it's daft to chuck it all out, pass it on I say!  Nothing wrong at all in second hand clothes and no one needs to know either if you don't want them to!


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva

Love every minute of Edinburgh. I've never been but would really like to x x


----------



## -x-Lolly-x-

Oh have a fab time lovely, much deserved, a brilliant city


----------



## MummyAuntieKatie

My mum's family are from Edinburgh, I love the place, say hi to Bobby for me, quick pat on the head..


----------



## Sq9

Have a fabulous time fran. Your little ones will be home before you know it


----------



## Frangipanii

Thanks all. Edinburgh was amazing as always. It is lovely. Vibrant, diverse, cultured, entertaining, and a lovely place to be in love!!! Although he is snoring next to me so not sure how in love I will be soon!!! 
We went to Holyrood palace and were proper geeks and listened to the audio guide!!! A couple in front of us told the ticket lady that he had proposed in the gardens a year ago and they had come back for their honeymoon as they had got married four days earlier!!! It was soo sweet!!!
We also went to the cinema which sounds awful as you can go anytime but we just dont so it was great. Ok we went twice!! lol. 
We ate like oinks and had some amazing meals!!! And our hotel albeit a mileish from the royal mile was sooo lovely. 
Back to reality and that came in the form of me cancelling the family holiday before intros. I just couldnt do it. Two nights away took weeks of organising because of the stupid birds and pets. My mind would not be in it and I would have an awful time thinking about what I hadnt done. I have officially peed off my Dad and just after I tolf
d him he got some really bad news. So I feel great! Never mind my mother came to my rescue as always and sorted him out. 
Going to start tomy talking album next week and the life book. Nervous as clueless and not remotely arty!!
My cat is sleeping next to me right now and we have decided to have him put to sleep next week. Not sure I will cope as he has been my companion for 13 years and I love him sooo much. He is such a good boy and such a character but he is starting to suffer and its not fair. I think I am going to find it sooo hard(crying now). Oh well got my little urchins to think about. 
Oh dear I am going to have to wake king tut up his snoring is sooo loud!!! Going to get told off for that!!! 
So anyway I best sleep my self.  So goodnight  and lets all dream of our babies!!! Xxx night lovelies x x x


----------



## Dreams do come true

biggest hugs ever, I know too well what it's like to have to say goodbye to our furbabies, absolutely heart breaking. You know that you're doing the right thing for him, it's still hard but at least you will get to say goodbye (I am crying with you, I miss my baby Marmite so much  ) x x


----------



## Sq9




----------



## gettina

Wishing you well ahead of what's going to be a tough week.
Big hugs. 
Really feel for you. Glad you have given him this time with you since his diagnosis and that you recognise when it's starting to hurt him. 

Thinking of you 
Gettina x


----------



## Frangipanii

Thanks very grateful for support. Going to book it this morning. Not sure how I will manage . X x x


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva

Oh sweetheart I am so sorry. Haven't managed to get on the forum all weekend     . Very few people can understand what our pets mean to us but I know the pain you must be feeling and I am so sorry x x x x x


----------



## Frangipanii

Thanks Gwyneth, you were missed this weekend. Hope it was lovely.
looks like it will Thursday.  Only free day where we can give him the time it deserves. And obviously if he deteriorate further faster we will bring it forward. Having children to think about really helps I have to say!! Xxx


----------



## -x-Lolly-x-

Oh Frangi   I am so so sorry lovely   what you are doing is the greatest act of love. I know it offers little comfort though. When our cat was run over earlier in the year our world temporarily ended. He was our baby and we cried for days, I got sent home from work. But the pain slowly passes and now we laugh about his silly nature and all the scrapes he got into. He is buried in the garden so he is close by and we can see him from our bedroom and say goodnight. Thinking of you my lovely and sending you strength to get through this difficult time


----------



## Frangipanii

Thanks all. Lolly going to remember what you wrote  makes me feel better! 
Sat in chinese take away covered in half painted clothes waiting for my nasi goreng!!! Too tired to cook but nurseries are now painted to (my) perfection.
spoke to vet today who understands fully our situation and suggested we leave it two more weeks...so on goes the saga of the sick cat!!! I dont think I will handle it very well but thr closer it is too mp maybe the better!! Feel such an idiot yo-yo-ing between life and death. 
Oh well. Also worry I may have offended some people with my comments on contact but feel that sw can be very indoctrinated about what they feel is best when actually my life experience says to be more objective. I am ope  to being wrong but think it is hard to just be told what to do and think!!
Life is complex. However the nurseries look amazing and thst is what matters tonight x x


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva

I understand contact needs to be child led not birth family or SW led. It's too easy to accuse adopters of being selfish instead of facing the fact a plan isn't working.  For example being repeatedly let down is in no child's interest. For me I pray that bf play their part and all parties can simply fulfil what they promised but life isn't always that way x x


----------



## Frangipanii

Indeed, completely. It has to be realistic and for me having letterbox contact with lots of people is not realistic nor in my mind in the childs best interest. There should only be two people or the main carers if not biological not all and sundry.  Sw coming on monday so will talk to her about it then. Xxx


----------



## Frangipanii

Nervous about seeing our sw on Monday as I havent prepared a thing, nothing at all. We have to write about why we wanted this to go through.  Not usually a last minute person but this time I am going to!! The emotion is there so not sure how much planning is required. 
Started decorating our room today...unplanned but got a bug!! X


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva

You're nesting my love. X x x


----------



## Frangipanii

I love that term!!!! And you are right I am  nesting!! 
Love it. Soon be you!!! November or Janary maybe! ♥


----------



## Frangipanii

Spent two wonderful days hibernating from the world with my husband and animals. We have watched so many films. We moved our mattress into the lounge-which was hard work as it is a huge mattress so that we dont live in a room with paint fumes. We have watched five films, had so many giggles and just properly relaxed. We did feel guilty but not enough to make us stop. Our little cat has slept with us the whole time. We say good bye to him tomorrow. Awful but we are doing the right thing so just need to get our goodbyes done and hope he sleeps sweet  with our angels and my nana!!! 
Both had our nervous breakdown/freakouts this weekend of the upcoming events. It is all starting officially on tuesday and we struggled with our nerves which is why we decided to spend some quality time together as it may be a while that we get to giggle, be slobs, cuddle and be selfish!!!! 
Just a few thanks to all you lovelies out there....especially Arrows, Lolly, Gywneth, Wyxie and all of you who have aided my journey!!!
I am keeping my fingers crossed for no hurdles! 
Bring on this week. I have to say goodbye to my boris cat of thirteen years but it is the start of a new life. 
Emotional yes!!!!! 
♥


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva

what a roller coaster of a week ahead. So glad you have taken some time out for you this weekend sounds lovely and just what you need. I will be thinking of you lots this week. x x


----------



## Sq9

Your weekend sounds fab. Big hugs for tomorrow and then lots of exciting times ahead


----------



## -x-Lolly-x-

Hey lovely   No need for any thanks hunny, you have been a constant support for all of us too and we help each other though the good and the bad, it's just what we do    Will be thinking of you tomorrow   Your little kitty will play in the clouds with my boy and he will be at peace   Then starts the truly crazy countdown to your children!   You will be a fabulous mummy, never doubt that.  I think we are sharing many similar emotions at the moment.  One day at a time, each a little step closer to our babies xxx


----------



## Frangipanii

Well little Boris has gone to sleep forever. My husband left with him to go to the vets and I collapsed on the floor in a huge fit of tears. Horrendous!!! I loved that cat so much, he was my friend, my comforter, my companion and my amusement! I feel at a loss with out him. I know some people that it just a cat! But boris was with me on my darkest and happiest days!!! He wont ever be replaced! 
In one way its a relief as he is not suffering anymore and that I dont have to think about this day coming everyday!
We are now two sleeps away from meeting fc. Fortunately my sw was back at work today and takes the security,tracing and ******** factors with bio family very seriously! So she is on the case. And we will see her on wednesday!!! I am looking forward to this process getting going. I was dreading it cos of the cat but I suppose thst is one good thing we can look forward!! 
Thanks again for support!!! Love to all x x


----------



## -x-Lolly-x-

Hope you're ok as can be expected today lovely lady


----------



## -x-Lolly-x-

Awww our posts crossed. He isn't only a cat, he is your baby boy and you'll never ever forget him. You have been very brave hunny and hope you can find peace now he is at rest. Thinking of you and feeling your pain sweetie


----------



## Sq9

xx


----------



## gettina

Oh Fran. Your post has given me glassy eyes.lovely, lovely boris. He was a proper feline friend. Sorry and   and well done for dong the best thing you could for someone you cared so much for.
Gettina x


----------



## Frangipanii

Thanks for peoples lovely words.  I still miss him. We both get upset when we walk in our room and he isnt on our bed!!!
But what a stressful week. Hubby and I are struggling with adopters being treated as least important in all this. And everyone involved in the process indoctrinated or a bureaucrat!!! I feel like for the first time ever I am put off adoption. Not the children of course. Adoption is supposed to be a second chance for us all to be a family and it feels like at the moment that the system never expects it to be a success but a long and hard journey! The birth family are seemingly more important although they should be in prison and all you get is negative. The other devastating thing we worked out is the foster carer really doesn'tz like our daughter(I say daughter but I am seriously worried this is going wrong) she is the obviously over the moon with our son but she had nothing positive to say about our girl. Its awful. Although sw have said that fc's inexperience has caused lots of issues. 
We sent an email with some of our concerns but have not had a reply! 
I feel let down by our agency and their agency and the system. I recognise adoption today is different but it should still be about a family coming together to simply love each other!! 
My hubby has changed so much since this process and his happiness is euphoric bar this glitch! His eyes lit up the other day when sw said we feel she (daughter) would do well with a father.  But for me all I am feeling is a a loss!!! 
My dad owns a charity for sick children and we have an event today and I am not sure I can even muster some spirit to go. How awful is that and how selfish am I. I need to stop being a pathetic and stop having a pity party and get some life into me!!! If not I am going to have to act like it is all ok. 
Oh well best go paint my face on!!! 
♥


----------



## Mummy DIY Diva

Oh Fran your poor little daughter having to live with people who don't see and love her beauty but only look for her struggles.  The sooner she is away the better x x x


----------



## -x-Lolly-x-

How heartbreaking   If that is the case I do wonder whether some people either need more training around certain behaviours that are a result of trauma that many children in care exhibit, better support their end, or maybe truly consider if this is the right vocation for them    The love you and your husband will have for her, and your son, will be second to none.  They are your urchins and you were meant to be their parents


----------



## Frangipanii

We asked her what her favourite thing was about girl urchin and she said she likes jigsaws! They have lived therer for ages you'd think we get a better response than that. Oh well more to learn this week x


----------



## -x-Lolly-x-

You don't think she meant that was little girls favourite thing to do and just misunderstood the 
question do you?


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## Frangipanii

No I wish!! X


----------



## gettina

both little urchins need to get to you guys - asap!
hope you feel better today Fran - and more determined than ever x


----------



## Frangipanii

Thanks all. Your right Gettina but looks like we have a fight on our hands!!! 

So here s the news from today. Our sw is going to suggest a delay of matching panel on the grounds that there are serious security risks for the safety of these children and that panel should not go ahead until we are all hapoy. We realise now they have chosen us cos we live so far away among other reasons. Also she is adamant that their names need to be changed and she is getting the legal team to check out our rights. We found some stuff over the weeken that has flagged this whole situation up a notch and now it is serious. We have a fight on our hands but our agency are fully behind our issues.Still got LA day on wednesday so it will be interesting to see what happens!!!! Our sw doesnt think that we will loose them as this problem will be there who ever adopts them. 
So there we are. Fingers crossed we find out some better news x x x


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## Sq9

Hope things get sorted soon fran.  As for the change of name, as I'm sure others who have been through it will confirm, you can call them what you like and the name is officially changed when the adoption order is made - there is a place on the form for you to say what the child's birth name is and what the new name following the making of the order will be.  That goes on the new birth certificate which is issued with once the adoption order is registered.


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## Frangipanii

Hi Sq9 thanks for your advice. Unfortunately we want to do things properly as we want to adopt again in the future and it could go against us. But you are right we will have to do that if there is nothing to gain from events at present. Will have to wait and see. Xxx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

x


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## Wyxie

Oh no, so sorry to hear about the uncertainty.  

Could I make the irreverent suggestion, that were you to go ahead with the placement, Social Services can't stop you changing the names when you get the AO anyway.  SS are not going to disrupt a successful placement, just because you decide to change the children's names.  As you say, however, this could be held against you if you decide to adopt again.  However, given your reasoning and the support of your Social Worker, it may well not.  You could quite reasonably argue that you accepted their arguments re names, but then faced with the reality of ******** and the realisation of how hard it is to keep photos from going online once your kids are in school etc, you realised you had to do it to protect your children.

I'm not suggesting it, I'm just saying that it wouldn't be the first time someone had done that.

I really hope you manage to get it sorted properly though.  Some Social Workers are utterly retarded about the name issue.  I do think that identity is important, and changing names because you don't like them is a bad idea, but at the same time, keeping kids safe with the internet and social networking in particular is hard, and will only get harder.  Fortunately, our local two Courts have both got Judges who are taking a practical approach to this when kids have particularly dangerous birth parents and recognisable names, but Social Services can be stuck in the dark ages.

I'm really sorry to hear about your cat.  I really thought I'd said that at the time, but I clearly didn't.  It must be horrible to lose your furry friend just now with everything else suddenly looking uncertain.  

Best wishes,

Wyxie


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Hi Fran, I am sure your cat is now running free at the Bridge and is having a whale of a time! Big hugs.

We told SS the morning of our intros that we were going to change the spelling of BB's name, partly for our own peace of mind regarding security, partly because the more traditional spelling was more to our liking and it also fits in with my heritage and they were perfectly amenable, particularly for the security reasons as there is a risk but also our SW thought claiming LO with a spelling change was good for us too.  We are also changing his middle name to a family name (actually we hadn't even been made aware that he already had a middle name when we decided).  

At the end if the day you can do as you please regarding names, whilst SS can advise they can not stop you but I do recognise that you don't want to make things difficult for a future placement. I think they really need to revisit this whole name thing, it's such an important thing not only for LO and their back story but also for the new family, security, claiming your child and for their future integration into your family and community.  Why saddle a child with a name that will ensure they stand out in their community in the future.  Whilst they need to retain a link to their past and understand where they have come from, they also have a new future to protect! Grr, it's a bit of a bug bear of mine!

Hope all goes well xxx


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## Frangipanii

Wyxie
thanks so much for your post. I am still missing my cat, he used to make me feel so much better. I loved the smell of him when he'd been outside playing in the grass. 
As for the uncertainty it is overwhelming. But your reassurance sure helps. We will go about it without them if we have to that is for certain. Security comes first and we don't need the pressure that worrying about their bio family leads us to. All we want is to do it the right way with their support and knowledge. I will let you know how we get on as they are going to ring us next week and let us know how their managers have taken the idea. Your wise knowledge and support is very welcome and gratefully received Wyxie!

Auntie Katie, 
thank you for your post also. I am hoping the cat is running in long grass eating mice! my lovely boy!life is not the same without him! _'Whilst they need to retain a link to their past and understand where they have come from, they also have a new future to protect! Grr, it's a bit of a bug bear of mine!'_ - I totally get that, security comes first and with some social workers it seems they are blind to that.

funnily enough having emailed Gwyneth with some other details about the situation she brought to my attention that possibly there is a conflict of interest with the social worker. One of the sw's know the family very well personally although not friends with them and she seems to have an affection for them and far too much sympathy especially when considering the abuse these children met with. I find it disgusting how people can think it forgiveable. Children in general are up for adoption for a reason and they are not nice reasons. People are deluded if they think that some sympathy is needed or contact. I think it is so damaging to keep in contact.
I find that social workers are so indoctrinated in to believing the research but it is evident to me that new research is done continuously and some even slams some of this fantastic research. Adoption should not be an extension of the care system it should be about being a family and it disgusts me how some of us are treated. They only care about the children, I know how that sounds, you are thinking well of course they should, but actually if they thought about the adopters more then the chance of success is going to much greater. I sometimes feel very alone in my anger at the system in this country. it is very bureaucratic and centered on the biological family and the identity etc well crap to it all, if the children's past was so great why are they in care. Yes knowing where you come from is massively important and I wont ever deny my children that but I certainly am not going to be living day to day as an adopted family! Makes me so mad!
Also what makes me mad is..... people.....my friend came over the other day and started spouting how hard it is going to and how we should enjoy our freedom whilst we have it and that we will live to regret taking two. lets just say she wont be coming round again. I mean seriously does she think we are retards! Like 12 years of ttc haven't been hard, and yes we have never entertained how having kids is tiring, no things like that done enter your brain when stinking needles in your tummy or when you are yet again having a m/c. No these last twelve years have been wonderful ffs!!!! I despair at how ridiculous some people can be! I mean come on use some intelligence! She's supposed to be doing a masters in counselling - i cannot see how she can be that thick! oh well rant about that over!
what else do I have to say tonight.....well OK here goes

what if I am crap at it!?
What if I don't actually like the children once they are here!
what if they don't bond with us or my parents!?
what if my husband becomes a really annoying dad and we parent completely differently?
what if I loose myself? Not that I have a life cos I don't I put it on hold for ivf!
Ok I feel normalised a bit now, its great to vent!
thanks all. love and peace xx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

I know how you feel the next person who tells me parenting isn't all its  cracked up to be or that we are lucky  because we can go for dinner whenever we want.  News flash what weird expectations do they think I have of parenting.  I am picturing hard work tantrums etc not the brady bunch.  Just because they were totally nieave doesnt mean we are.  Also we don't want to go for dinner we want to tuck our  children up in bed. 

I know your worries too I am terrified I will be a bad mum or our  children won't like us. We have had a lot of devastation  and we are on an even keel now and loosing that again scares me x x


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## Frangipanii

So glad we are all in similar boat Gwyneth!!! Do you know what though its a week till panel and I am really tempted to run away to the airport!!!! Seriously! Although I have done that too many times. It used to be my thing. Something bad happening or scary and I used run to the airport or the lake district with my tent! 
Only managed it twice being married!!!
I feel like I am going to cock this up! So terrified! 
Peed off too with different ideas of adoption. Am worried we wont get through panel but then thought our agency wont get their £35k+ for matching if we dont get through and considering we have the boss of the agency coming to panel with us who agrees with the name change I am not sure we have any problems. 
But unfortunately my mind doesn't take solace in that. 
Do you know what is really bad I have nt done their books. I feel so awful for that it is not true! Hoping I can manage them in three days. Xxx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Fran, I am starting to resent my husband going out to work! Especially when he suddenly asks if it's ok for him to go out for an evening and stay over where he works (too far to come home really).  I feel like he doesn't understand how much hard work it is having to entertain, look after and care for a 2 year old all day....  It's all very well him coming home at 5:30, pottering off to get changed, turning up in time to have a quick play in the garden and then bath and bed but it's nothing like having to deal with BB all day at all!  I rarely get to shower or poop alone even!     

I think this is more my issue than his but it's making me cross.  I still have to cook tea and clear up, do the washing, strip the beds etc etc on top of all the kiddy stuff and I think he just thinks, 'well, she's home all day with nothing better to do'..  I am very tempted to book a day out soon, maybe for my friend's birthday, so that he can fully understand the reality of my world.

Sorry, hijacked your thread with my moan, it was your post before last that set me off....  I'm feeling a but like a hired help and need to find myself again.  I'm still bonding, which makes it harder of course... xx


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## Frangipanii

Oh AK......I am so sorry to hear this. Men can be so bloody oblivious to our needs sometimes. It sounds like you need three things. A sympathetic(non patronising) hug, your day out definitely. ...sounds like it needs to happen!, and thirdly you need a hubby intervention!!! He needs telling and fast before you burn out. The mere fact he hasnt noticed is unbelievable but having one of them at home I can totally relate. We had a mutual intervention last night which resulted in many glasses of wine!(rare for us as we dont drink). But the intervention was much needed. Especially when kids will be coming home soon(fingers crossed). It was heated but we both feel better and have aired all our issues so we can now move forward. Dont get me wrong it was hard and emotional and it took a long time. 
I hope you can find the courage. ..I recognise it is hard to rock a boat. 
You must be exhausted. You could always try leaving the house a mess and leaving the house for the day!!! 
Good luck whatever you decide!!
Xxxx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

I think I may have over done the woe is me post, reading it back it sounds like I'm married to an ogre!  lol!  Don't worry, I tend to stamp collect, I bottle it up then he gets it with both barrels, sulks for a while then admits he was wrong..  

Thank you for your support though, you are absolutely right, we need to sort this out before I blow!  I may well have a few wines on the weekend (he hardly ever drinks) and let him have the softened version.     xx


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## Wyxie

AuntieKatie, I can understand why you'd be upset at the thought of hubby going out.  When it's a real struggle each day, I really count down the hours to when hubby gets home.  I absolutely put my foot down at him coming home and checking stuff on the computer before he's spoken to me, the kids, and started doing stuff.  He's got pretty good lately and actually looked after them both for most of Saturday morning, while I basically slept.  I would be inclined to tell him it's too soon, and you need him at home too much right now.  I'd also tell him he needs to muck in as soon as he gets home when there's stuff to be done.  I don't know what BB's like, but getting housework done with either Wyxling or Bladelet awake is an absolute nightmare, and while I make an attempt to do some each day, it's mostly to keep the idea in their heads that Mummy does have things to do other than look after them, and in reality I get almost nothing done while managing the pair of them, it tends to happen when they're sleeping, nap time and when they're in bed at night.  Hubby helps out.  He doesn't like it, but mostly because he's tired too, and he doesn't really begrudge it, and does it.  He also gave me my first whole morning off in 15 months this weekend, which was just as well or I'd probably have killed someone before lunchtime, me, them, him or both.  

Sometimes I feel very down for not managing to do more.  As a stay at home mum I feel like logically my house should shine, and my kids should be somehow entertained and engaged in lots of stimulating and creative wonderfulness.  All this while keeping up a nice social calender with other Mums.  In reality the TV is on more and more just because it helps keep Wyxling from blowing up, and I hate it, I never have time to do anything creative with them because they can't handle the set up and clear up time, and the whole thing just gets so stressful it ends in sulky Wyxling determined to spoil everything.  I am lucky if I manage to read a handful of books with them each day and sit down on the floor and play far less than I would like to, while attempting to stay on top of the million things I need to do and then redo and redo for them.  My house is a tip, and is barely clean enough at times, the kitchen is a complete dumping ground and certainly a health and safety hazard, because it's the only place the kids absolutely never go in.  Others I just think I'm knackered, I ache from head to toe permanently from the physical lifting/pushing and assorted struggles with both children, my legs are covered in bruises from being kicked and my arms are in a horrendous state from being bitten half a dozen times a day.  If I got through the day without screaming at either of them, stayed calm enough to do all the managing Wyxling needs, and we managed to have some good time to pay back the huge amount of effort that's going into trying to keep Wyxling relatively calm (and it is relatively at the moment) and not blowing up too much, then I'll call it a win and collapse.

It's hard, no-one really gets what it's like.  It can be immensely rewarding and I love both my kids so much, I'd never change anything, but it's hard, and for me there is simply no respite at all, which is why I think I'm finding it so hard.  I just need a break.  Hubby looked after kids on Saturday morning, mostly, so I managed to get some sleep, because I was about to collapse in a sobbing heap somewhere.  He also looked after them on Sunday morning for a couple of hours after I did the early morning session.  That's the biggest break I've had in 15 months, and trust me neither child was happy about it and I paid for it afterwards, but actually it did leave me feeling considerably better and ready to face the week.

Frangi, good luck for panel, I hope things go well.


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Wyxie said:


> Sometimes I feel very down for not managing to do more. As a stay at home mum I feel like logically my house should shine, and my kids should be somehow entertained and engaged in lots of stimulating and creative wonderfulness. All this while keeping up a nice social calender with other Mums.


Oh I so understand this!!! I sometimes manage to get some washing done and whilst BB has breakfast or a nap I can clear away the dishes from the day before, apart from that I spend all my time entertaining, feeding, caring for etc and I go out A LOT because it's easier than staying in. I also feel like I am neglecting the dogs... Plus, I ache all over (I can't claim the bruises, I have a few but mostly not from BB!), especially my arms, elbows etc from all the lifting! Why does no one tell you all of this before it happens I had a big shout at the poor chap this morning because he had a tantrum for the most stupid reason then slapped me in frustration, then I feel guilty for getting cross...  Again, I'm making it sound worse but sometimes it is very wearing, but also rewarding!

That's it, I'm going to bed! lol!! 

Good luck Fran! xxx


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## Frangipanii

Ladies.. thanks for putting me off!!! Ha ha! Seriously though I am taking notes. And in fact I read it out to my hubby so he can 'get the picture'!!! I am so not looking forward to the messiness as it is a bug bear of mine.  However it looks like I have nooooooooooooo realistic choice in this at all!!! So I may as well accept it. Like you Wyxie we will have a little girl who has some behavioural issues!! Which from what you have written is going to be extremely hard work!!!!!!!! You have my full sympathy!!!! 
I have just decided that I need lots of sleep and a cleaner! Oh and sumo suit to protect me as we have a boy who bites!!! 
Oh dear. Fortunately hubby has a year off with me so we have some time to cope although it sounds like it requires a team of people!!!! 
Auntie Katie....dont worry about sounding off. Your hubby doesnt sound like an orgre just a man. And they have it in them to thoughtless!!! 
Love to you both.  If I could I would come and help!!! 
Xxxx


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## Frangipanii

Seven sleeps til I meet my babies!!!! Had lots of text off foster carer! Our daughter loves her new toy and wanted to take it to nursery and has been showing everyone the introduction books. She is very excited!!! We feel on a different planet today!! It is all abit surreal and weird and oh my gosh I cant believe it!!!!!!!!!
Cant believe concentrate on anything, hubby and mum been in tears today. We are celebrating 13 years of marriage today!!! And its been sooooo special I could jump and do a heal click! In fact I am going to my field now to put my chickens, ducks and geese away in my pjamas so may well do that!
Much love and happiness bubbles to you all!!


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Amazing sounds like a wonderful day x x


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## Sq9

. Enjoy your last week as a twosome. This time next week .......    xx


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## Jules11

Fran,

Congratulations,  isn't it amazing when you can count down the sleeps until your children are with you.  I'm really pleased you fought for your children and won.  I'm sure its the start of a wonderful future.

Just wanted to let you know you inspired me to fight SW's on some of the contact and photo issues for our LO.  I stood firm and they backed down.  We now don't have to provide any photos and BM has been told if she posts anything about LO on ** in the future all contact will cease.  Its amazing what can happen when us lowly adopters fight back for our LO's.

Take care and enjoy your celebrations,
Jules xxx


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## Wyxie

Wonderful to read about you being so happy.  Such good news that your daughter is so happy to know she has a Mummy and Daddy to look after her forever.  I hope you enjoy your last week on your own, and look forward to reading about you meeting your babies.


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## Frangipanii

Jules thank you for your comments. I am so pleased our fight inspired you. I am honoured. Sometimes I think adopters are treated awfully and we need to remember how valuable we are in all this!!
Thanks Wyxie and thanks for all your support! 
Much love to you!!! Xxx


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## Frangipanii

Wow what a weekend!!! We keep getting texts off fm about the children! The Tomy talking album has run out of batteries so many times, baby girls book has been shown to sooooo many people. She has decided that daddy is tall like her toy giraffe we gave her! Which he is!Very! Baby boy has learnt to say mummy and daddy in relationship to us and he loves his new toy sooo much. They are both very excited but I suspect there has to be a reality check at somepoint. We are both very excited but exhausted already. Hubby did the great north run this morning which involved me basically sitting in a car for 11 hours and.lots of that was driving. However he text fm and told her he was running and baby girl sat quiet and watched it all on the telle to see if she could see him. Tears rolled down our cheeks after that! I am feeling all the emotions under the sun. Part of me wants the world to speed up part of me wants it to slow down!!! Terrifying!! 
Feel guilty because I am not keeping up with everyone else journeys!!! I dont seem to have had time to blink! Spent time with friends and running around getting everything ready and going away today! I am so scared and so scared and so happy about it all. 
X


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## Mummy DIY Diva

4 sleeps amazing.  Congratulations to DH on the run. Love the thought of pink urchin watching for him x


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## Sq9

xx


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## Frangipanii

Thanks ladies...xx
social worker came today to just check over everything. It was lovely! We had a great catch up and chat about any worries we had and how we feel etc. We couldnt have done this without her and she is amazing. Four sleeps to go and I am in bed so nearly three!! 
Got lots to do but just want it to be friday! 
I feel ready now. Ready to fight for their acceptance and love and their attachment.  Ready for them to start to trust us and ready for us to trust us. Waited a long time for this and here we are.  Nothing is ever perfect(well apart from scuba diving) and it all needs passion, commitment and patience. So come on friday lets see what you bring!! 
X


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## gettina

Getting v v close Fran. Good luck for intros - will be thinking of you over the next week.
gettina x


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## Frangipanii

Thanks Gettina! Nerves are making me crack!!! Love to u 


Leaving tomorrow, 8 nights in a hotel and the journey starts tomorrow x x x


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

Eeeaaakkkk one more sleep. 

Thinking of you xxxx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Happy travels one sleep till you meet your beautiful urchins x


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## Frangipanii

Thank you thank you. Sooooooo nervous!!! X xx


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## -x-Lolly-x-

Eeek!!! It's tomorrow!! You'll be amazing mummy!


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## Sq9

Only 1 more sleep mummy


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## -x-Lolly-x-

Have a wonderful wonderful day tomorrow hunny, sleep well and get ready for your beautiful babies!!


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## Wyxie

Just popped on to wish you the very best for tomorrow.  Hoping for a truly magical day for you.  

Best wishes,

Wyxie xx


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

Thinking of you today. Have a wonderful 1st meeting with your babies 

Big hugs xxxxx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Thinking of you have an amazing time meeting your gorgeous urchins x x


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## Frangipanii

Thanks. Lying hear thinking way back to our honeymoon 13 years ago and how we talked about this moment. It has been a painful journey but we have finally made it. I am going to make the most of everyday with them!!!! 
Thanks for all the support.  Love to you all!!! Xx x


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## Babyjellybaby

Have watched ur story for a long time. A true inspiration xx

Massive good luck for today xx


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## Frangipanii

Well that was a day that will be hard to beat!!! It was an amazing life changing moment! We fell in love. Got big cuddles and called mummy and daddy! They are adorable and it was a beautiful experience. They are cheeky, lovely, affectionate, cute and made me speechless!!  There will be bumps but the foundation laying is going wonderfully! It was amazing and I cannot believe how lucky we are!!!!!! Completely unbelievable x x x x x x 

Thanks babyjellybaby x x x


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Franmumpanii so glad you've had an amazing day. A name change is needed when you have a second. Hope you are having plenty of R&R in the hotel xxx


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## Frangipanii

Oh yes a name change!!! X x x


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## Wyxie

Wonderful.


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## Handstitchedmum

Glad to hear you are off to a good start!


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## Frangipanii

Thanks ladies. 

Well day two today and I didnt sleep great. Cannot wait to see them again! There was a better immediate bond with me and boy urchin and hubby and girl urchin. So we are going to try and even the balance. Girl urchin did mention her other family but we felt that that was a good thing because she shouldnt  feel ashamed. Social worker was happy she did. I am totally aware there are some issues around her behaviour because of her experiences and I know what we are seeing is the best but I assume as long as we have our eyes fully open it doesnt matter. It would be strange if she didnt have any issues after everything she has been through. 
The foster carer loves to tell us their bad points but over than that she is lovely!!! And she is loosing them so I cannot begrudge that after everything she has done for them. Plus in a way it is better to know things. Well thsts the way I roll. 
Funny sent my bff a photo of us all together and she said she had never seen us look happier. And she was right. We look comfortable together!!! 
Cant wait!!! X x xx


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## Sq9

Amazing    xx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Funny isn't it so often Mummies boys and Daddies princesses x x


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## Frangipanii

.....well this rollercoaster wont stop and I am not sure where it is going. My daughter tells me daily she doesnt like me and my husband is her world. He makes it really hard for me as he is so 'fun' and doesnt realise she is playing us off against each other. He is being so irritating!! And she is very very clever for three. The bond is a little bit strained at the moment. I am so confused. My hubby assumes because she likes him that he knows best when to me that is ridiculous. He doesnt want to set too many rules and boundaries until they are living with us which I think is asking for trouble. He also doesnt not use the word mummy enough. My son however is well amazing and although we still have a long way to go he is getting used to us and he is just fanastic. I am completely in love. I know I can feel like that about my daughter but she has real mummy issues, control issues and separately she has daddy issues. She never misbehaves in front of him because her 'other' daddy was not very nice. I am totally sure we made the correct choice in children though and know we have a hard journey ahead but they are both wonderful and so special and some of our moments this week have been incredible so I am trying to focus on them.goodnight lovelies tomorrow is another whirlwind of emotions.x x x xRead more: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=309938.700#ixzz2fwKoaVIl


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## Mummy DIY Diva

x x


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## Wyxie

Big hugs, sounds like such a rollercoaster.

Your husband is wrong.  Children treat Mummy and Daddy very differently, and when you add in the complications of adoption, trauma, any abuse or neglect suffered, and a desire to control everything, it just gets even trickier.  Just because your daughter is being nicer to him, doesn't necessarily mean he knows her or is getting things right.  Hubby needs to support you absolutely, if your daughter is being difficult.  I think it's incredibly hard to know where to draw the line on boundaries to start with, when you desperately need to try and form a relationship.  I think that being too strict isn't a good thing to start with, but some boundaries need to be in place straight away, and even if there are no consequences, kids need to hear if they're doing something they really shouldn't be.  Having said that, you can ignore a lot of little stuff that at first seems really irritating.  Can you sit down with hubby and agree between you what you are and aren't going to worry about now?

I hope the rest of the introductions go well, and that things start to settle once both children come home.  

All the best, 

Wyxie xx


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## Sq9




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## Frangipanii

Hi ladies thanks for comments. It helps to know that I am not wrong. 
Although things have got better. Hubby has realised there are two sides to our daughter. I know that sounds awful but unfortunately the abuse she has suffered leaves consequences! She had a little moment the other day where she realised her world was going to change completely and she has settled into us more. 
To say these children fit us is a complete understatement! Like stars and the night sky. Yes there is going to be many blips but the highs are amazing. I cannot believe how lucky we are. 
They are coming to our house for the first time today but they dont officially move in til tuesday!  It seems like a long time away!! 
Cant wait for them to get here. We have had the worst cold ever all week and feel completely awful but its made us realises if we can do it all when we feel like this we can always do it. 

Love conquers all, love is glue, love is giggles all day long, love is my two children who are now my world. 

X


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## -x-Lolly-x-

Oh Fran, what a beautiful post   I hope your urchins have a wonderful day in their new home with their fabulous mummy and daddy. All my love to you all


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## Mummy DIY Diva

You are doing amazing your urchins will be home properly soon.  Bet sleeping in your own bed will feel like heaven x x


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## Sq9

Hope you all have a fabulous day


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## Frangipanii

Well four and a half weeks since they moved in and five weeks nearly since we met them. My assessment of everything and my honest assessment is......I must apologise in advance as it is very frank!......it is not even remotely what I thought it would or in fact what I wanted. There are glimmers of what I wanted but not close. Is that too say it will never be what I wanted who knows. I went through the process with my beliefs and inner value system in tact thinking that all my years of dreaming of being a mummy, being a person who has worked with children and with adults in need I would only need to adapt about 40% of myself. Well I was soooo wrong. The case is my whole life has been turned upside down and I have to change 90%. And I believe anyone taking on two over one will most likely have to change the same!! 
I am at a loss as to how to build it up again! 
Yes there moments where I am confident but not often.
now you may think that I am feeling lost and you are right and over the last couple of days I have thought that my other option of moving to a beach and scuba diving for life might have been preferable! However I cant give up and wont! 
There is the hope that one day it might come close to everything I wanted. However if I change my goals and dreams I will be happy sooner. 
So I am trying to get in to the theoretical side of adoption although I will never be a complete bookworm of course! I will pick and choose bits that work for me!
now I know everything is based on the childrens attachment but I think sometimes working out your own attachments can make sense. I am fairly attached to my son and that is growing!!! However my attachment towards my daughter is very little! So there is a lot to be done. They both hurt me daily so it makes me wonder what they must be feeling to do that. They have been through a lot and I need to be there for them completely regardless of my feelings. I need to separate my feelings from the actual care I give them. I need to get on with it and 'woman' up! 
So what else well I have decided that two years plus off to bring up my children  is completely unrealistic! So I am going back to my career next year. I have ti update my practise because of all my time off but it means I can do it slowly and hopefully get a job around next September! . 
Yes life is not what I wanted at the moment but I think in a few months I will have re-evaluated what I want and what I can do!!!! And I will have learnt to parent in a way suitable to these children and me! 
Life feels lost sometimes but I am seeing the light and the hope and I can definitely see that my love can grow! The children are incredible despite their truma and their not so nice ways! 
Sorry for my honesty and lack of personals for ages. I.will get back to you all at somepoint! 
Love to.all x x


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## Mummy DIY Diva

I think you sound very strong and objective about what your children need which is fantastic so early in with such a challenge.  I think it's brave but really important to revaluate what is best for your family instead of sticking rigidly to hypothetical ideas.  Lovely to hear from you x x x


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## GERTIE179

Hi Fran

Sending lots of virtual hugs and support. 

Firstly, I could've wrote your post at the same in our journey. I had prepared myself that we wouldn't feel like mummy and daddy yet but it was still harder than I/we imagined. But each day was a step closer to our happy times.

You are all doing wonderful given how early it still is and you show such insight into your feelings and clarity on the situation (I really missed work about this length of time in and wanted to go back earlier as work was just damn easier).

Anyway I thought this little anecdote may help you see the sunshine ahead as it will come - just depends on when

Little man been home over 10 months now and 
... 1 month in we started rocking him to sleep (as previous FC routine just wasn't working and I thought this could help the sleeping and bonding). He did settle but a good few rejection nights and the biting/lashing out every day continued. He constantly had an inner struggle where he wanted held but wanted down too.
... 4 months in little man was lashing out much less but still prone to really trying to hurt when he did if that makes sense (I know he isn't rationale but it definitely felt this way). Much more snugly and enjoying it especially skin to skin contact and being held like a baby.
... 7 months in we've sorted bed/sleep quite a lot and little man wants to go to sleep himself as long as we stay in hall/our room. This has been a huge progress as it shows he trusts we'll be there and come if he needs us to.
... Jump to today and he asks for cuddles and kisses spontaneously, wants to sit snuggled into you, wants to go to sleep on me/being rocked and today he didn't have enough skin contact as he even asked for "hands" so that I would hold his hand too. Very cute and very vey much a mummy. We're a normal family (albeit we adjust for things that overwhelm little man, and act accordingly) but we do everything I thought we would be doing and I pretty much hate being without him. I'm looking at whether I will go back to work in 2014 even though I miss my career terribly, as I think little man does best with me being there for him (but he gets nursery hours next year so will spend some time away from me anyway).
I hope this helps in some way.


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## MummyAuntieKatie

What Gertie said!  It was hell in the beginning, not at all what I expected and I didn't even like BB sometimes, I thought, 'what the hell have we done??  Have we done the right thing?'…  Don't get me wrong, I never contemplated disrupting the placement, he was our son from the moment we brought him home, it was just harder than I expected and I hated being this drudge who did all the housework, cooked, cleaned and looked after LO while DH went off to see his mates at work every day and almost carried on as normal.

But, the feeling of being a normal family has started to come, we are doing much better, good sleep routine, less tantrums, BB is visibly happier and more comfortable, more himself.  He's stopped fighting everything, sometimes still fights going to bed occasionally but that's so normal.  Today we went for a lovely dog walk with my friends, one of their little boys and all our dogs, was lovely seeing BB get muddy.    My friend text me later to say 'look at us, from 4 years ago when we were just nutty dog ladies, now we were both nutty dog ladies with little boys'… lol! 

I think what I mean is, trust that it will get better, easier, routine really helps and you will see improvements probably more quickly than you realise right now when things are hard.  Sending you big hugs xx


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## Wyxie

Fran, I am so sorry to hear that things are so tough for you right now.  It sounds like you're doing as well as anyone could in such difficult circumstances.  It must be incredibly difficult to realise that your family is not what you'd hoped for and dreamed of for so long.

But, it is very, very early days.  I think you're absolutely right that you need to look at the reasons behind your children's difficult behaviour and what they are likely to be feeling when they are at their most difficult.  Alternate ways of parenting are probably going to help you from what you've said.  I think when suddenly faced with children with very difficult behaviours it can be very tempting to keep getting stricter and stricter with the feeling that surely, at some point they must get the message that what they're doing's not OK.  It just doesn't work like this with very damaged children.  People say they "don't tolerate" physical aggression, and use time out (call it time in if you want, but making a child sit on a chair at the other side of the room until they apologise and/or calm down, is time out) and don't understand that for severely traumatised children this simply isn't going to work.  You can keep sitting them back in the corner/on the chair all day and all you do is reinforce their own belief that they're bad.  The more they believe they're bad, the more they will be bad.  They don't care about consequences, they care about control, as much as they can care about anything.  The same goes for a lot of consequences.  There can be boundaries, without consequences.  We can move children away from things, hold them, move them on to other activities.  Improving the mood and relationship will do more in the long term to improve attachment and therefore behaviour than all the discipline in the world.  We were far too strict with Wyxling to start with, although we weren't really that strict, but like you I really struggled with the fact that my child wouldn't stop hitting me, kicking me, trying to hurt me.  I felt like I had to stamp on this and honestly, it didn't work in the slightest, it probably made things worse.  It might work for some people, but for more damaged children, it just doesn't work at all.  It just turns the whole thing into a massive fight.

Children can misbehave for all sorts of reasons, but at this age it's certainly not malicious or with the intention of hurting you, although god knows it feels like it at times.  They have no empathy, development is still at the egocentric stage, they are not capable of putting themselves in your shoes.  Most likely in this situation they're terrified and hurt.  They have no idea what is going on in their lives and only time and realising that their parents are the constant that will always be there, unchanging, consistent, will start to remove the fear.  Children often also have very low self-esteem and a belief that they're bad, which is why people keep abandoning them.  The feeling that if they're bad enough they'll be sent to someone else can lead them to test out how bad they need to be before you send them away. 

With Wyxling we simply love her, move her, correct her, no, we don't hit/kick/scratch/bite etc and because she often escalates things, we then keep her with us.  We were told in the first instance to hold her at arms length and give her a firm "no, we don't do x" and then immediately bring her to us for comfort.  Often at that stage and sometimes for a long time after she would continue trying to hurt us.  We don't get into a conversation, we just hold her, rock her, no matter how much she's fighting, like a little baby.  Sometimes I tell her I can see she's upset and making bad choices, so Mummy needs to keep her close and safe, and make her choices for her until she's feeling better.  Often now a firm "no" and a cuddle is enough, or just "no" and moving away from her.

The other thing we've been told many, many times and which I think my husband is finally starting to see, is that after kids have been told that what they're doing is wrong, especially if we've got cross about it, which we all do at times no matter how hard we try not to, is that the relationship is repaired afterwards.  Children need to be close and to be told that they're loved, Mummy isn't angry with them, or Mummy was angry but isn't now, and that they're wonderful, but Mummy/Daddy need to teach them that we don't hurt people. 

Any praise that you can give them for things that are kind or gentle (with animals, you, each other, their toys, anything really) is really helpful.  It makes it much easier to tell them that you know they are kind and gentle, but that you need to teach them that even when they're angry/upset we don't hurt each other.

Most of all, you need to find a way to enjoy your children, and more important right now for them to enjoy being with you, without discipline and behaviour becoming the be all and end all.  Anything, anything at all, that you can do together to have fun, connect, be close, share something enjoyable, will do far more in the long run than all the behaviour management in the world.  It's so hard to try and do this in the middle of what feels like a battle over everything, but so important too.

I always feel like replying to things like this with specific suggestions is like trying to scribble psychology on the back of a beer mat, but hopefully some suggestions some people give are useful, and help you find the right way for your kids.

Wyxling is still incredibly difficult, but 13 or 14 months ago she was in an almost constant attack mode.  She did something dangerous, I stopped her, she attacked me, she raged while I held her, she calmed down eventually, within 5 minutes we were there again.  This is almost gone now.  Not entirely, but she's also a toddler and everything that goes with it.  I wouldn't make any firm plans for returning to work, there's plenty of time to decide what you want to do, and it could be that in six months time you feel that this is what will be best for your family, you included, for some time.

If you ever want to chat about anything like this please do message me.  It was hard enough dealing with one child with horrendous behaviour and attachment problems, I don't know how you're managing with two.

All the best, sending massive hugs your way,

Wyxie xx


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## 2708belle

Good luck with everything. You're doing an amazing job


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## Frangipanii

Hi all, long overdue update from me. 

Babies have been home for nearly four months and we have really done amazingly well considering. I do clash with my daughter as she is obsessed with daddy and has been let down so many times by women, she acts up for me and is quite horrible sometimes and acts perfect for daddy. Which means the bond is not quite there like I would want. Very sad. But to say they have been through lots of trauma is an understatement so I suppose it would take time. They are beautiful and clever and resilient. They have learnt so many new things and have have even lost their original accents. My son is delightful and very wonderful. Couldn't love him more. And hope that the bond increases with my daughter. 
The family love them so much and they fit with us really well. 
The journey is hard and I have to say that I am not doing great with it at the moment. I feel I have lost myself for so long during ivf and this process that I have no idea who I am. Having children is amazing but it is certainly not the be all and end all of life. Wonderful yes but can also be boring and frustrating. Especially when there is behavioural problems. Daughter lies a lot, goes into her brothers room and wakes him up in the morning..very early. She is quite manipulative and screams when she doesn't get her own way, yes she is in survival mode and yes time is key but omg she drives me mad. 
I do recognise that I am a little low. We have so many decisions to make over the future. We both took a year off which in hindsight is ridiculous as we are bored out of our minds.so trying to fight our way back into our careers is a nightmare. We do want more children but the adoption process has nearly ruined us as it made us feel that we were judged very negatively for some of the time, and even though we have had an apology and a statement of evidence to say they were wrong it still feels hard going.
I also fell out with my mum yesterday, in fact it turned into a screaming match. She totally undermines me and parents my children. She did apologise eventually but I am not sure how genuine it was. 
In hindsight I think I should have had a holiday before going into this.... A long one!!!

The joy it has brought us all is brilliant though and my husband is an amazing dad and he has blossomed as a man. 

We have come so far and have done so well but I am shattered and feel very concerned about the lack of bonding with my daughter. I am also gutted (ridiculous) because by husband is a much better parent than I am and it infuriates me because it has been me who has kept us together and organised the majority of our lives. He has been the black sheep compared to me and now it's me who is struggling and I am not very good at being a mum sometimes. 
I am not really expecting a reply but I just wanted to write it down. The feeling of being inadequate is not very nice and very unsettling especially with regards to my self esteem and confidence. 

Anyway much love to you all x x x


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## GERTIE179

Hey honey



I can completely see myself in your post and was about 4/5 months. I was the one off but had a very successful career beforehand and was the one who was in control, natural with kids (still am) and totally thought I'd love my AL. Gosh what a reality check. I completely underestimated how lonely it could be and how much my LO could find my buttons and I only have the one!!

It definitely gets easier and I found the bond grew more when daddy went back to work and over the weeks and months we just got more time to gel (he's now more a mummy's boy). I think it helped that we focused on having fun as much as we could whereas the first few months my role was a bit of everything and daddy had the luxury of being the fun one. 

If you and DH can find a way back into work in consulting/part time basis that means you both get some you (old you) time and also watching the kids on your own days then it really helps with keeping everything good on a relationship point. I find even one day every few weeks in work (as I'm getting close to going back) really rejuvenates me and I love the rest of my week with lil guy.

Be kind to yourself. We adopters take on little people with their own personalities and demons and our job is life long and we always put them first and think what's best for them. Your kids will be doing amazingly I'm sure because you have always fought for them. And like any process that has bad experiences these fade in time (otherwise women wouldn't go through childbirth again!) and hopefully you will revisit the growth if your family when it feels right.

X x


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Hello hun, 

Firstly wonderful to hear from you. I think you're doing amazingly both of you. I completely empathise about feelings regarding DH. All children adore my DH despite the fact he isn't really interested in most of them. I fully expect our kids when they arrive to prefer him / bond with him quicker and I know this will break my heart but it will get there because you are giving her the love and consistency she desperately needs even if she doesn't realise it yet. 

I think your feelings about work are very normal but a lot of women don't admit that they need more than their children in their lives. Recognising you do is healthy look into work at a time and in a style that will suit you all. Perhaps trying to work part time apposing hours could work for you and DH. That way you wouldn't need to use childcare and you'd get one to one time with the children to encourage bonding. 

Lots of love as always x x


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## Sq9

Sending big hugs and lots of love fran.  You are all amazing


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## -x-Lolly-x-

Hi Fran  

Lovely to hear from you   You all sound to be making fantastic progress and that the bonds are growing all the time. I really admire you both for fighting for your family and doing what you felt was the right thing. It's all too easy to just stay quiet out of fear and is probably the route I would have taken if I'm honest   So I'm really pleased they have acknowledged the were wrong and handled it all very poorly   I hope you feel strong enough to add to your family when the timings right  

As for returning to work, well I think good for recognising you need to be more than just 'mummy'. It's something I've considered as DF is going self employed soon and recently said that if he does well down the line he could 'employ' me so I don't need to go back. But I've decided I really want to go back to work for me and my identity. I trained hard for my role and don't want to lose my skills in a sector that's changing and evolving all the time. Once you're out its hard to get back in, and I've just reached the point of extra annual leave and am working my way up the chain financially. It's a big sacrifice. I hope to find a good work life balance and go part time. My career is important to me, not as much as my family of course, but it's not something I'm willing to sacrifice if I can at all help it. I also do believe in a bit of nursery care and think little pink will benefit by that stage. It can also get lonely and the days can be long, so I do understand your reasoning entirely.

Can't believe it's over 4 months since we met our babies, where has the time gone?!! Crazy  

Lots of love to you all my dear


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## Frangipanii

Thanks ladies. I felt very reassured reading your replies and humanised in a way. I hate feeling like a failure and feeling like a fraud! 
I have sorted out some shadowing of a local social work team and hubby is helping out at the school he used to work at so we have started trying to get our lives back now. I just felt that through your messages and other peoples on a different thread was like a big warm hug which made me cry. Fell out with my mum also so it was gratefully received. 
Things have slightly changed as my daughter showed her true colours to my husband yesterday which involved four hours of screaming.  She has been stealing toys from her brother...his favourite ones and taking my jewelry, so we have had to go back to basics with her. We have advice off the psychologists so are following that which is quite harsh although with lots of reassurance. It is all fuelled by the jealousy because she doesnt want to share hubby. Women have let her down, men have hurt her but daddy is special. She is so confused. But strictness does work eventually buy it is hard going. Using a reward chart to regain her treats and toys etc. 
Blind leading the blind. 
Anyway love and thanks to you all x x z


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## Dreams do come true

EDIT - excuse typos its my SILLY phone!!!

frangipani - I love my kids to absolute bits but I too am bored, I am goi back to work in 4 weeks, 12 weeks earlier than planned....there's only so much I can go to the park/groups or play with toys everyday. 

I think that we, well definitely me spent so long (during ttc) picturing perfect family life and dreaming of how wonderful my childrens behaviour and manners would be as a result of the fantastic mum that I was....HA how wrong was I?! It's nothing like I pictured, and for a long time and still occasionally now I feel absolutely crap, to get everything I ever wanted, I lost everything I ever was...and the only thing I ever wanted was no where near as perfect as I thought I would be...I shout....I always vowed thAt would never shout at my children but I do, if they don't eat what i feed them....it's tough they go without....in my 'perfect picture' they would have such great diets and would flourish because of how healthy they'd eat....they have chocolate and biscuits....they were only ever going to have 1 treat a week! We would only ever use the time in chair....occasionally be ause they would behave so well...my DS can spend up to an hour on it a day (that's the record!)...he even went on Christmas Day......Christmas day?!!!!! In the perfect picture I had we were all going to sing songs around the fire and play with toys on Christmas Day....reading this I sound like an awful mum, and I felt awful but in time I have learnt that I am a normal mum, who has lots of amazing times (the times I pictured) but I also have awful times occasionally, it's normal.

Also, I love both my kids...but in all honesty it has been a damn site easier bonding with my youngest, my eldest really really pushes me as far as he can...it's getting easier, he knows the limits now...he knows that we are not going anywhere.

Anyway, in a long winded way what I am trying to say is don't be too hard I yourself, I bet you are a wonderful mum and feeling more of a bond to one child than the other, especially so early on when you adopt siblings together...it's normal. Being bored is also normal it seems lol....pheeew! 

Me and my DS have a day a week together just us, it helps massively...his behaviour is so much better on that one day and we both really enjoy it. Also swimming 1:1 is lovely and really made me feel connected to my DS, he knew he needed me in the water and would reach out to me...something he didn't do alot of early on.


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## Frangipanii

Dont get on very often now and havent even read some posts. So I do apologise. My update is as follows. I have to say things got worse before they got better. To the point that I felt I couldnt go on and wanted to end it. I fell out with my parents, my husband, myself as nobody was getting what I was getting from her. It dawned on hubby one day when he witnessed it and he gave her a serious telling off...worst one she  had had. And I had to be honest I couldnt imagine ever feeling anything buy total dislike for her. It was weird she was manipultive, nasty, a bully, cold, and a thief which at four sounds like I am.a liar but she had been let down so much by women she didnt feel like having a new mummy. Which she used to tell all the time. Which made me very depressed when I had been through so much to adopt her. But not.only that I had to put up with it for nearly five months. Talk about comfort eating! Driving away from the house and sitting in the dark crying and not wanting to go home. Anyway so it couldnt have got much worse really. I seriously didnt want to sign the court documents. Anyway one night she was feeling poorly..she started sobbing so i rocked her likr a baby. After lots of cuddles and a nice bath she was fine and weirdly it was like she'd had a light bulb moment and recognised I was a good mummy and that she did love me and need me. Now she is a mini me she wants to be near me, she tells me she loves me and she she even reacta better when being told.off! Its not perfect but I feel truly in love and totally love my sprogs! They both look like me too which is lovely. Its not perfect but it is lovely! 
But wow after five months of hell and only a couple of weeks of joy I could do.with a holiday! X


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## Mummy DIY Diva

So glad hun.  You've been amazing dealing with it all. The steps you have made are fantastic and it will continue I'm sure lots of love x x


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## gettina

Oh Fran I'm so very pleased that a corner has been well and truly turned.
Well done for getting through all the many difficult moments to get to this happy point.
 
Gettina x


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## Sq9




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## 2708belle

Oh wow   How amazing! Congratulations   xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

What a lovely post, I'm so thrilled for you that things have begun to turn around


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## Frangipanii

A family should not be defined by anything other than love. We are now seven months in and we are all very in love. We have family sayings and the best one is the one I say to my dd everyday at least three times which she repeats 'love you forever and always and always and forever'. Sometimes she just walks up to me and puts her hand on mine and says it to me. In a way I feel she needs me to reassure her that the love is still there. Which I do. 
Our lives are not simple as some of you know but I treasure my children every moment! They are beautiful and they are so loving, funny, intelligent and beautiful! We are so lucky! 
It was meant to be! 
Dd loves and accepts me now more than ever and ds gives the most adorable hugs!!!! 
Such a worthwhile journey although sw's are still frustrating us even today! 
So there is my update! Which I am pleased to be able to share! Xx!


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## -x-Lolly-x-

And we are extremely pleased to be able to read Fran   Simply beautiful


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## AoC

Yes, that's a lovely update to read.  I really relate to your experiences, and so glad you've come through the dark bits to the joy and love you deserve.


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## Frangipanii

Thanks AOC &Lolly we really have got through it altogether! 

Court rang today and adoption order has been granted!!! Amazing! It actually feels bigger that I thought it would, actually life feels lifted as if on another playing field altogether. Its amazing that they are finally ALL ours!!!! X X Z


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## -x-Lolly-x-

That's such wonderful news, I'm so so happy for you!!!!!


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## Sq9

Fabulous news fran


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

Fantastic news fran, congratulations xxxx


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## Frangipanii

Thanks all!!! Xxxx


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## Frangipanii

I am so peed off! My parents havnt always got on with hubby, he can be irrational and demanding at times....and in our first years we fell out a little. Hubby has had his moments with my parents too. However since the kids arrived my folks seem to think the sun shines out of his rear. They are also acutely aware that his parents arent in his life so he needs to have them to support him. Lovely yes of course but because I shared my issues with my parents and because I was the one who struggled early doors they give me NO compliments, they dont show any interest in me, they tell how I am doing things wrong and all they do is gush about how amazing dh is! 
Also both children are going through a love daddy more than mummy stage which I know is normal but dealing with being bottom of everyone's pile is really hard. 
Secondly....my dad is receiving a prestigious award and we have agreed to go to the ceremony...but hubby thinks its a going to be hidieous celebration of my dad's ego (which yes I agree it is large)..which I think is completely selfish considering the support we have had over the years including a house. So I lost it with him and said if you dont come I will stop giving my financial contribution to the pot! He has said he will come now...but it is still hanging over me! 
Rant over...so peed off. Never mind we have complexities with other mattera in our life! Minutes after getting the news about adoption order we got bad news which I cant go into. I just feel like I want celebrate but with mh low self esteem and my paranoia I feel rubbish!! 
On a plus note we did some collages of the kids..one of them at their last contact, one when we met them and one recently.  The change is dramatic and brilliant. They have gone from being unhealthy, unhappy, stressed children to lovelies with beautiful smiles, healthy skin, relaxed faces and love written all over their faces. Neither have gained a pound in 8 months which is brilliant considering their previous health. So maybe I should just focus on that and other positive upcoming events!.
Just needed to share....xxxx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Hugs my lovely great news about the order but sorry you've had so much stress xxxx


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## Frangipanii

Thanks Diva, it seems I am just going to have to plan the long game! Oh well it will be worth it in the end! 
Need to find a hobby to keep me distracted from the stress of the future. X x x


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Let me know if you find one that fits round 2 kids and animals xxxx


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## Frangipanii

A year ago I was nervous about approval panel and now I am a mummy of two. 
I have to say that I never imagined it being like this. Don't get me wrong at times my kids drive me crazy, and there are some issues with our dd, but they are the most incredible kids ever.  I hate and detest the phrase 'my adopted child'. I hate and detest that some people adopt because it is a 'good deed' (some one our prep group). These children are the best thing in my life. I have been through hell and back in my life, it seemed like disaster followed me round. From being abused through out school, abused by boyfriends and then losing my babies among other things which I won't go into!!! But I guess I have laid the picture out that life although good has had its moments of hell and misery. And now I am here...in my house watching my kids eat their tea. Beautiful amazing children. And so cute, people stop us in the street and tell us how cute they are and well behaved. I know a lot of adopted children comes with baggage and it's not to say my dd doesn't have the odd problem, but I am shocked and amazing that we have so little issues. We all fit together. I do feel guilty that I have stronger feelings for my ds then my dd but I am putting that down to time and the fact she didn't want a new mummy, rejection is hard but she truly loves me now. Plus I think her age and her ability to care for herself makes it a little harder, but with theraplay we are getting there. 
On a sad note I found out that my mum has cancer today. Survivable and very treatable but still not good. 
Even though the kids have been here for 8 months I still get a shock daily that they are all mine. And I cannot begin to believe how much I love them. 
Amazing.....life is not perfect but my kids come close. 
F


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## GERTIE179

Aww lovely update Fran.
Wholeheartedly agree with you on "I hate and detest the phrase 'my adopted child'".

Sorry to hear sad news about your mum and hope things improve quickly with the right treatment.

My boy is my son no matter how he came to me. Luckily i've not found many who say that to my face or mother tiger would come out. x x


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Such a lovely update but so sorry about your mum really glad Dr's are feeling positive though.  Hugs x


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## Forgetmenot

Sorry to hear about your mum, but your post is lovely.  Fills us on the journey with a little hope xx


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## Frangipanii

Well things have improved. Mums cancer has been removed and she is doing great. Hubby and I are absolutely loving the kids. Little ds is poorly which means lots of hugs, although he is very affectionate anyway but more hugs is never a bad thing. 
Dd has two ways of behaving in my mind...1 is the normal 4 year old behaviour and the other is her unsettled LAC behaviour in which she is still in survival mode. She has recently started becoming very much more of a normal 4 year old. Which is amazing, doesn't mean it will last or we won't have issues in the future but it is wonderful to see. I can't quite relax yet but getting there. 
I still can't believe that a year ago we were at panel and now here we are parents to two amazing children. We seriously are the luckiest people in the world. Our sw rang the other day and we were analysing things and she stopped me and said she had been thinking of us and wondered whether we had ever stopped and looked at the whole picture. We have come through so much and got so far, she said she couldn't believe what amazing job we had done and what strong attachments we all had. She got really choked up. I was gobsmacked, so nice to here. I get really frustrated that people forget about the route of adoption because truly it is amazing, I should know. 
As for my adoption I have slowly come to terms with the fact that my birth family do not want to acknowledge me, funnily I think one family is enough lol. 
On a sadder note I bumped into a friend the other day, she adopted a child over 7 years ago and they are going from problem to problem...it does help me to remember the bad days and the what ifs and maybes. Adoption isn't easy but my god I love my kids. And they love me so much it's amazing. 
And even today with ds having chicken pox I have no complaints. 
Just love for my urchins asleep upstairs. Xxx


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## Sq9

Fab update fran.   xx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Glad there's so much great stuff going on for you. Really glad your mum is doing well xxx


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## GERTIE179

Really glad things are going the right way & you have more exiting news on the way too!
Glad your mum is better x


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## Frangipanii

Just wanna write this down so I can close it in my mind as cannot talk to anyone about it. Ten years ago ish whilst backpacking around the world with hubby we made it to Australia and were staying with my parents long time friends. My periods had been all over the place but I just thought it was because we had been away for a while. But hubby thought lets get a test. So we did. And it was positive. We told our friends and they booked us into the clinic bought us some books and celebrated with us. The next day I collapsed in our room and struggled to breathe. I was rushed to a clinic and told it was an ectopic pregnancy and the moved to a hospital. I was rushed to surgery screaming don't take my baby. Unfortunately not only did the surgery take my baby but it took me too, fortunately not for long.  I lost more blood than should have been possible, I had to have a caesarean and had to be resuscitated numerous times. I was on life support for about three days and developed pneumonia in a heat wave weirdly. Hubby during this time slept in the waiting room day and night alone with know one to talk to. His hair dropped out. Eventually we were told that it was a late ectopics at 15 weeks and it was a little girl, my tubes were gone, and with it little chance of naturally conceiving. 
So we flew home, all our dreams gone, our trip cut majorly short, our baby gone, our relationship in tatters and our hearts broken. It has haunted me for years and although I have come to terms with it the pain is always there. 
The reason I am writing this is two fold, it is ten years and the friends who we were staying with are staying with my parents now. I find it so difficult to face them-emotional, scary, daunting and I feel guilty for feeling the strain of our loss when we have two amazing children. I thought writing it down would help. I sometimes feel there is a little barrier between me and dd and wonder is it because I feel that 'Louise' my lost baby will hate me for loving another, because I couldn't cope with that. Just seeing my friends faces brought back all the pain and sadness and the emptiness of loss. Yes I can hide my feelings in front of others but home alone, I am crying and feeling so sad that ten years have passed and so many memories are with me. I don't think there is a cure but slowly the pain will shrink away back to the place it stays in my heart forever. 
My love for my dd,ds,dh and future children will surely hold the key?
Much love x


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Huge hugs hun.  When you go through something that horrific I believe it changes who you are.  It's a part of you etched into your character and the effects of that although they lessen are life long. Adoring and loving your children does not in my view offer a magic cure for the loss of a child.  I know a lady who lost her daughter at 32  weeks she has three other bio children but the loss is very real and heart braking at times.  No one would expect otherwise however when you adopt there seems to be this belief that your losses are irrelevant and you should just be grateful.  This is rubbish loving your children and grieving a loss are two separate things.  Take your time and feel your loss when you need to and never feel guilty about grieving xxxxx


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## Frangipanii

Thanks Diva. What you have written makes a lot of sense! And I do feel that part of the battle is acceptance and honesty with emotions. I think love is love and I shouldnt question my love for my children because I never expected to feel this in love with them. I just went to see the friends this morning and thanked them for looking after us and thanked them for coping with it because it must have been hard for them. 
You are right it does change a person forever. And it  did with both us and here we are with two lovely kids and an amazing life. 
I dont believe in ignoring my feelings but I hope this brings me closure.  
Thanks for support x x


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## GERTIE179

I whole heartedly agree with Diva. These things that happen are etched into us & whether it affects us in day to day life or only when someone touches the wound, it can still hurt & we shouldn't feel guilty for that.

What a insightful & raw post and sending you love to help through this time x


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## Frangipanii

Weirdly with your love and some self belief and my hubbies love for life I have found some peace this week. And closure.  Thanks grief can be consuming and long term but regret is pointless  xx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Xxxxxxx


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## Sq9




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## Frangipanii

Well not been on here for a very long time! So a quick update.....next week we go and meet LO number three! Cannot believe we will have three kids in about 14 months! Things are not perfect but the love is trully amazing! I find my daughter quite hard work but she is older and has been through alot! I do love her its just the attachment is far from full yet! But i am full of optimism! She is incredible, so resilient and strong! My son is the most amazing thing ever, my world! And now another LO to add to the mix! I cant wait! I am going to be exhausted but we are so excited!! 
What a journey! Xxxxxxxxx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Have a wonderful second set of intros hope the older two take to their new sibling well and aren't too unsettled xxx


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## Sq9

Wowzers - how amazing. Hope it all goes smoothly


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## Frangipanii

Meeting our baby tomorrow!!!!!!


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## petalpoppy

Good luck


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## Flash123

Fran, I hope today is as magical as it can be. Enjoy precious xxxx


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## -x-Lolly-x-

Have the most perfect day Fran!!!   xxx


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## Frangipanii

A week in with baby boy blue eyes and life is.......actually not sure I could sum it up! So here goes some descriptives: exhausting, enlightening, amazing, just lovely, stressful, three kids under five all from same dna is quite amazing cos they are so alike, awful in parts cos two year old is heart broken having lost his place as baby, gutting cos I haven't figured out how to balance three kids, 1 hubby, six pets, cooking and house work and a life of my own, but overall it's just a story of love!
We are in love he is amazing! And a baby which is a perfect piece to our jigsaw of life! 
Lovin baby time! Not good at it all but getting there! 
Xxxxx


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## crazyspaniel

Sounds fab Fran!!


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## Sq9

Amazing fran


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## Frangipanii

Baby boy been home 14 weeks, he is amazing. Love him dearly, so much. He is nearly one and we are very happy. Still a shock having three but they all love each other so it makes.it alot easier. Going back to work soon ad hubby is gonna stay home. Big change! If I can get a job of course! 
Going to start planning for more kids next year! 
#quickupdate
Love to all


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## Frangipanii

I have been MIA from here recently cos life is hectic and soon to be more so. Dd and ds1 have been here over 17 months now and baby ds2 has been here nearly five months.
Here is a summary, more for my own healing than anything. 
We all know life is tough, people struggling through their own personal journeys all around us..some quiet and in the shadows and some loudly and in the open. And each journey hurts. Well the journey to motherhood hurt me like no other and it is about time I came to terms with that. I have had a few bad things happen in my life which have damaged me which I see no instant shiny recovery from. But surely I can come to terms with them! Surely being honest with oneself is recovery. The traumas I have been through will never be wiped away from my life nor be forgotten but I can move forward and heal. I will never not yearn to be pregnant, this is honest and pure. 
I will never not want to hold a newborn who is mine, this is honest and pure. I will love my children forever, this is honest and pure.
I had this expectation of motherhood to be healing yet it nearly broke me. My boys are my world and my joy. My daughter is the gold medal at the Olympics which I am training hard to win. Not just her heart but mine, there is a divide - we are like twins yet opposites in many ways, there is a barrier from me to her and her to me and a love very fierce but our timing is always off. So instead of analysing I have to step back and realise I cannot pretend nor force but wait and try and try and wait some more. Success is not a word that exists in parenting as it's a life time event! But if I am honest and say its not only the children that have attachment issues it's also us parents. People don't say that because it should go unspoken but I say it cos I feel it. 
Don't question my love, it's there, it's fierce, it's just not directed right but time will fix all, my heart is opening, my love fierce, my mind always tirelessly trying, although not always perfectly. Honesty also has to consider the question of perfection? I am neither the best nor perfect but I can always strive to be better.
I don't always feel like a good mummy or wonderful person but I know I am in my heart. 
So onwards with my journey I am going back to work. Full time whilst my hubby stays at home. I need me. Not a label of adopter, or mummy, wife, daughter etc just me. And I can't wait. I am gonna miss my kids but I also miss me, and it's been so long that I need to see me again. I used to have this spirit of freedom and openness and love and fun and it's gone, been replaced by some beautiful things but who says I can't have both!
Recognition of waffle. 
Point of this is....I can be the person I see wanting to jump out of my shadow...a slimmer, funner, happier, lovelier, better me. Inclusive of being a great mummy, wife, daughter, but starting with just being me. Xx
and I feel so much happier for making this decision


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## Mummy DIY Diva

So true hun.  you're all doing amazing.  With my eldest I always think about the longest time she's spent living in a certain situation. I think security can't fully come till you've stayed with them longer than anyone else.  It's a long stretch with an older child.  X


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## crazyspaniel

No time at the moment Fran, just wanted to send love   Xxx


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## -x-Lolly-x-

Well said lovely, beautiful honesty and you've all come so far. So begins the next chapter of being a working mummy and I'll be joining you too, we can do it together! Yes you have a way to go but don't we all with one thing and another. As long as you keep stepping forward with love in your heart you will be just fine xxx


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## Frangipanii

thanks, it lovely to have understanding friends. I don't talk to anyone about my feelings anymore in my 'real' life because either they judge me, they are too busy loving the kids, or they just don't care. 
Diva, its true and we are coming up a time where she will have been with us longer than foster carer so that's important. she is my hero in many ways- she has overcome so much so amazingly she just doesn't seem to want to do the last little bit. patience!
CS, thanks! 
Lolly, Yes we are diving into new chapters and we have such unique lives that it is going to be fascinating to see. I agree as long as you try at everything you will always be ok and love will always be in my heart. 
xxxxxx


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## Sq9

You're amazing fran. Sending huge hug xxx


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## Frangipanii

Evening all!!! 
Just wanted to tell you that beautiful boys adoption has gone to court and been granted just need to wait for 28 days until it is officially granted!!! 
Never loved somebody so much. He is my world. They are all my world. It's amazing, complex, difficult, beautiful, fabulous, so so so much hard work I often want to run away. But the love is pure the love is real. 
Three beautiful kid!!!!  
Don't get on here much anymore, back working full time. Hope all is well with you all. 

Much love


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Great news really pleased xx


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## Sq9

Congratulations fran     xxx


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## -x-Lolly-x-

Ah how wonderful! Congratulations, such lovely news for a lovely family of five xxx


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## GERTIE179

Congrats to the Fran family 
Such a lovely update x


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## Frangipanii

Thanks everyone. So in love. Xxx


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## Frangipanii

Well life is pretty perfect now, three beautiful kids, a glowing but hideously hard career being built, family growing stronger and stronger.
However I am getting a letter off my birth mum this week who is going to reveal the facts of my birth, to say I feel like running away is an understatement. Terrified. Never thought this day would come. Just hope she actually writes it and sends it. 
I may never be the same again. 
Xx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Huge hugs glad work and kids are doing great.  Remember you are who you are how you came about us part of you but does not define you. You choose the person you want to be.  You are strong and compassionate and you will move forward with or without the information.  Not saying it's easy just that you are bigger and stronger than you think xxx


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## Frangipanii

Well stupidly we got pregnant and i am waiting miscarriage! It makes me still so upset that I won't be able to give birth! It was so exciting for such a short time! I always wanted a big family and yes three is plenty but I just wanted this to happen! 
I am not shocked now but feel that whatever life throws at me has to be a trauma before its ever something pleasurable! I seem to screw everything up before I get somewhere! Nothing is ever simple! It is always complicated and bloody hard work! 
I don't believe we will adopt again because the red tape is so exhausting! I love my kids more than anything but I am gutted the journey is over! 
Yes we can go on better holidays and I can enjoy the children I have but I will never not have the yearning to be successfully pregnant! 
I don't know why I am writing on here! I just feel so destroyed by this! Selfish to want more I know! But a baby baby (not bothered about Dna) would have been truly lovely! 
Well that's it got to await my full miscarriage now! The joy! 
X


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## Tictoc

So sorry to hear this - I think most people who adopt know the feeling of wanting to have the baby stage too. It's not at all selfish to want to have known your children from day 1 and despite having 3 kids a miscarriage will still hurt terribly. I hope the family you do have can help you get through the pain of it.


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## Helend75

Oh poor you. The hope a pregnancy holds against the pain of awaiting a mc is the worst. Throw into it 3 los whose early life you weren't a part of - you have every reason to vent your frustrations & upset. Take care xx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

So sorry for your loss wish I had words to ease or help but there are none just sending love x


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## -x-Lolly-x-

So sorry to read of your loss, life can be beyond cruel. Take care of yourself xxx


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## Sq9

Sending lots of love and hugs fran      xxxx


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## ciacox

Sending love. The desire for a newborn is still there for me too, probably always will be. It must feel so hard to have the possibility dangled in front of you like this.


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

So sorry for your loss honey xxxx


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## Frangipanii

Thanks everyone! Your love is comforting! I am struggling badly! It's the long term! It's the state of my body! It's the never ever! 
Wish I had a ticket to run away! 
Xx


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## crazyspaniel

Xxx


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## tinkytoes

Hello, just to say I'm so very sorry, it's a terrible terrible time and process, so very harrowing and I can't even imagine how you must be coping with a family to look after too.  I remember it being bad enough just H and I and having to go to work. I hope you find your peace very soon and the wheels keep turning.


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## gettina

How are you coping Fran? 
Is it physically over yet?
Was just gutted for you. Oh the crushing blow.
Sending sympathetic love.

X


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## Frangipanii

It's over but I am still waiting a period! Anyone any experience of this, it's been weeks! ! Feel like I am due on every day but nothing happens! 
Things have worsened over all to be honest! The attachment between me and my daughter or should I say lack of it is killing me! -also I feel like I am an awful Mum! I feel like I am rejecting her, I know that sounds awful! But she consumes me,she wants my attention constantly, she hates her brothers cos I love them and all she ever tells me is what they do wrong! 
Honestly don't like her, don't want to be with her and don't want to be her mummy at times and I am struggling to try and make things better! Then there's the guilt! I am also struggling with hubby! I just feel constantly ****** off with him! 
My job is ok and my boys are good! But everything else is ****! 
Hormones? Depression? I don't know but I hate feeling like this!


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## Mummy DIY Diva

I think it's impossible to parent a child with serious attachment issues and not dislike them the majority of the time. They don't behave nicely most the time. If a friend or partner was a fraction as abusive you'd cut them out and never look back. You're human you will feel like that hugs xxx


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## Frangipanii

Nicely put diva! I don't feel like a mummy I feel like a machine! 

Had a melt down today! Burst into tears at work! I just found out my work friend is pregnant and due near my due date! How am I ever gonna cope with that! 😢😢😢😢 so gutted


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## Mummy DIY Diva

That's really tough I'm sorry xx


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## ciacox

Sending you love Frangi. What a rubbish time.


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## Sq9

Sending massive hugs


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## Frangipanii

Thanks everyone! 
Thinking of going for another sibling group! anyone know what the process is?


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