# opting abroad- why are UK medical staff not helpful?



## lily17 (Sep 25, 2008)

I have opted for DE treatment abroad, but have been astonished at the lack of co-operation by my UK medical staff. 
My GP freaked out, and told me in no uncertain terms he would not be allowed to help me in any way, although he has supplied medical test results and helped me get bloods done, he has been very alarmed about the whole thing- almost un-coperative. And I have had real difficulty getting scans done here, even when you are paying- my GP just could not help- he said he wasnt allowed- I did manage to convince my fertility consultant to do the scans, at £150 each its not a cheap thing!!- but he was very wary- saying he couldnt really get involved.
My Dr abroad was very open and keen to make contact with medical staff in the UK-to help monitor things over here before I go out for the transfer. I feel ashamed that my UK medical professionals will not contact her in any way, she will probably think (wrongly) their is some sort of political reason....... 
anyone had the same experience?

Karen x


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

I am not sure where you are in the UK, I only have experience of London, but there are fertility clinics are who do shared care packages for clinics abroad- therefore do all your scans, bloods, and prescribe your drugs etc, the packages are often expensive like £500-800. 

GP's are often not helpful and are not able to assist preivate IVF or IVF abroad, so I think if you get pregnant the best thing is to get referred to a midwife asap.
L x


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

I've had similar experience with my GP who explained that she could not help with prescriptions or any advice/support because she is not a trained fertility specialist and she would be liable (financially) if anything went wrong. I do understand her point on this, but her whole attitude throughout has been very unsupportive (the unspoken implication being that I am completely mad to be having tx as a single woman anyway and even madder to be going abroad - I'm going to Reprofit in Czech Rep for own egg IVF in January)

As JJ says, in London you can definitely get scans etc done. There is a place called The Birth Clinic on Harley St (not got the details but you can prob Google it) which does them for £70 I think. But yes, otherwise it's very difficult as those of us having tx abroad have realised....

Good luck with your next cycle, and as JJ says, get yourself a midwife referral as soon as you can when you get that BFP!
Suitcase
x


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## Lynn E (Aug 7, 2008)

Hi there Lily17,

I have complained about this issue the lack of professional help an individual can get in the UK for deciding to go aboard. I think there are only a few clinics aboard -  Barcelona which medical care can be co-ordinated in the Uk. However I did get a lot of support here (Guy's), the allowed me to have all the tests done here, discuss what type of donor I should take (health wise), agreed my medical plan, gave me a series of counsellingsessions before going aboard and have agreed to give me 3 scans after treatment back in the UK. 

My experince going aboard was not stressful at all, me and DH treatedthe experience as a holiday and we were in constant communicating before, during and after the treatment. 


Good luck with your journey. 

Lynn E


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## Laragh (Sep 8, 2004)

Hi 

I found that the London clinics were ok because there are tuned into that "IVF is a big money spinner" and if that means they extend their earnings to accomodate older women trying to get pg then it ££££££££££££ and with Harley Street they are used to all sorts of medical proceedures. However  your avergage GP and local clinic is not use to this kind of treatment, probably view it as some "frankensteine proceedure", my clinic was the Oxford Fertility Unit, when I cycled with my own eggs they were lovley but when I switched to DE overseas they were flippant, rude and one nurse was quite horrendous, I often wondered why she had such a chip on her shoulder about overseas patients, I dreded going there for my scans.  i can only think there is some sort of medical jelousy that the overseas clinic are getting the results that the UK clinics failed to get.

Lottie


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## annacameron (Dec 16, 2008)

simple - every time someone goes abroad and has a perfectly decent experience or even goodness me, a bfp, they lose market share! and ££££££!!!
that's all it is. 

I'm convinced many of these places are excellent, especially funnily enough the former Soviet bloc countries. excellent medicine adn highly developed systems. 


Suitcase, why did you go to reprofit for own eggs when you could have stayed in the uk?  am I misssing something?  is it cheaper? that would be good. ))


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## Mrs CW (Jul 12, 2004)

Hi just going to move this to the tx abroad board as you may get more advice from other experienced abroadies  

Claire x


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

Annacameron - yes, I did move to Reprofit mostly because it's cheaper. 

But also I'd had 3 cycles at LWC with no success and felt it was time for a change of clinic and there weren't many options in the UK with plenty of donor sperm (I'm single). And I was finding it very stressful going back and to to London for appts, scans etc (4 hr round trip for me) and thought it might be easier to just take 10 days off and have a 'holiday' as well as tx. 

Suitcase
x


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## annacameron (Dec 16, 2008)

suitcase, completely agree, will look into it myself! I had thought it would be prohibitively expensive given the euro exchange rate but obviously they are still doing good packages.


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## bluebell (Dec 9, 2004)

Just to chip in that it isn't always that bad.  My clinic here in Scotland have been really supportive over the years, both with tx with my own eggs at their clinic, and then with DE abroad.  They use me now as an unofficial counsellor to new DE abroadies based at their clinic.  They are happy to give scans and blood tests etc.  
GPs vary massively.  Even the GP can change !  Mine was great at first (well, OK), but then after a few DE cycles abroad refused to prescribe the drugs any more, being quite honest that it was all about cost, saying that he wouldn't be allowed to spend that much ££££ on me.  It vaires even within a practice. My GP was happy re responsibility-wise, but not re ££££££, but once when he was away I saw his colleague, a female Dr, who wasn't happy because she would be liable if it went wrong.  
I think it is often down to individual personalities, especially as there seems to be is no set protocol for clinics / GPs in the UK as to how they should deal with us Abroadies !
Good luck,
Bluebell xxxxxxxx


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## Penelope Positive (Sep 12, 2005)

Just to add my experiences into the mix, I have had two very supportive GP's and a wonderfully helpful clinic assiting me in my treatment abroad.  It certainly is a bit of a postcode lottery but my GP in Hampshire helped me get loads of immune tests done and was always available for advice.  My clinic have a link with Ceram in Spain and we paid a one off fee of about £1200 which covered us for a lot of scans, investigations, bloods etc and once that ran out we just paid on an individual basis.

Even now I am lucky enough to be pregnant my GP has taken on my Clexane injections and allows me to get them on prescription after having a letter from my UK clinic so it can work.

It seems to very much depend on your location and the clinic you are using.

Pen


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## roze (Mar 20, 2004)

Lily, I have just sent you a PM about your prescription dilemma.

I also think its very much down to individual GPs and what they are used to. Mine is a group practice and I just take things they say now on the chin. I don't involve them any more in my treatment since one of the practice nurses made a big fuss after I went back for advice on a heavy period post an unsuccessful tx. 'Why don't  I go to Harley Street rather than put pressure on our system' sort of things. Some of the GPs fall into the ' this is a Frankenstein thing' category , others take/have taken the moral high ground about DE. Generally if I'd listened to them from the start I would never had had IVF. Five years ago one called me in to the surgery to explain that did I know that young children require a lot of care and energy?  She had as a patient a 45 year old mother of 6 who was exhausted with a 6 month old. I pointed out that if I had 6 with one in the pram I might be just a little exhausted too and perhaps a little less enamoured with childrearing?  But that wasn't me so why compare apples with pears.

One GP almost called me a bad mother for wanting to try for a second child.
There is only one who has been very supportive but he works there part time and hard to get hold of.  As such, I get all my support from the overseas clinic and private UK clinics such as the Birth Company.

Policy wise, there are so many people going for all sorts of healthcare abroad that things will surely have to change. I can understand the legal aspect but it wouldn't hurt for GPs to correspond civilly with overseas clinics in order to protect patient interests and to fully inform them of health issues?

I have just come back from Kiev where I was and remain absolutely amazed at the level of care, professionalism and support I have received throughout this latest cycle from ISIDA, on many levels.  To be honest, I am thinking now whether I would want UK's intervention as its bound to be considerably inferior to the overseas clinics I experienced. not least, ISIDA.


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## annacameron (Dec 16, 2008)

good grief, Roze, Id report them, errr to each other, for all that. 

can you change surgeries?


quite ridiculous

as if it isn't stressful enough all this malarkey. 

I can imagine that Eastern bloc countries are way ahead medically. it's one of the things the Soviet system did manage to do v well and the very best drs seem to be paid £2.50 a year so no doubt are grateful for the foreign income. 

best of luck xx


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## barbaramary (Jan 30, 2006)

UK staff vary from place to place for a number of reasons. One could be the PCT might keep a tight reign on their prescribing but also it is true that even if the medication is recommended by one doctor the person taking responsibility for the prescription is the doctor who signs it. This means that if it is a drug that they are unfamiliar with and is also one that is known as a Red Light drug ie should only be prescribed by a consultant than they are unlikely even to want to do a private prescription. Most fertility drugs come under this Red Light except patches and pessaries.

However having said all that scans etc should be no problem to organise privately. If there is a choice of GP surgeries in the area it may be worth phoning round and asking to speak to the practice managers and see if there is a particularly sympathetic GP. Remember GPs also have fertility problems and you may find a surgery with one of these - they are then less likely to have any problems with the going abroad.

I also think the press have a great deal to do with this as they always report 'IVF Tourism' in a negative light and I know I'll probably get wrong for this but I don't think the Donor Conception Network help here as I always feel in their eyes that I'm a second class citizen for going abroad. So there is no one in the UK promoting IVF abroad and GPs are only human and like the rest of the population read the negative reports with nothing to counterbalance it.

Just need to add that the opinions expressed on this thread are personal opinions and not ff opinions 
sorry boring i know but just have to say it


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## Jane D (Apr 16, 2007)

Hi

Just wanted to add my experience here.  I agree with Barbarymary about the possible issues around medications, although my GP was great about prescribing cyclogest and progynova for me for my deivf, suppose they are relatively low risk and I could be on progynova for my POF anyway.  There is always the costs issues too.  Have to say my GP was sympathetic and did all my pre tx blood tests for free, blood group, rubella hiv, bep b and c, syphillis which saved us a bit, although I believe NHS GUM clinics can do the virology tests for free.  I had a shared care package with Nuffield hospital and Ceram of spain.  My private clinic work with overseas clinics rather than work against them.  For £575 I got pre tx scans, post tx scan, post tx blood test and consultation.  They also filled the forms and did all the admin for me.  I also got 2 free sessions of counselling, and paid for a further session.  I really do think it is time UK health care people started working with the foreign clinics.  Just because one clinic or GP wont help us isnt gonna stop us pursuing our dream abroad. I also agree with Barbarymarys comments about lack of good publicity for IVF abroad and the lack of support from a certain support group who do look down on abroadies.  However we are all intelligent enough to know what has driven so many of us abroad and long may us have the freedom to choose to go abroad!!

Love and luck to all of you

Jane


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## lily17 (Sep 25, 2008)

oMG I cant believe how the GPs treatment varies sooo much- Ive just had another run in with my GP over DE treatment abroad- I have miscalculated the amount of crinone gel I had left, and have nearly run out after having 2 embies transferred in Russia last week, when I asked if he would prescribe some for me- even privately, he point blank refused, leaving me cross and distressed, Im supposed to be testing on Monday and he even made me pay £60 for a private preg test!!!(blood test)
Ive definately got a dud!!
I managed to get hold of my UK consulatant who is sending me a private prescription tomorrow so I can continue with the crinone....Im not sure how essential the crinone is...but mine crinone med has not been applied at the corect levels as I havent had enough! I just hope my treatment hasnt been compromised 
The whole systems is ridiculous....when will the NHS GPs take over my treatmet? where do they draw the line? will he refuse to treat me because my pregnancy was concieved by DE abroad!!!
I dont get it!!!
Karen x


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## Lynn E (Aug 7, 2008)

Hi Lily

You are not alone on this. I understand that GP cannot agree a medical protocol by a DR outside the UK, just in case they prescribe the wrong medical.  Silly i know.

Lynn E


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

Yes, my GP said that she is held personally liable for any drugs she prescribes, so if anything went wrong, I could sue her. Of course I would not do this, but she would not take the risk. Fair enough and I understand her position - that's fine

What made me angry was her attitude and the way she treated me like an idiot for going abroad. Did she think I just stuck a pin in a map and picked a clinic or something? It's not as if I hadn't researched the whole thing thoroughly, got personal recommendations etc etc

Anyway, I now avoid going to the GP at all which is not a good thing. Should prob change practice to get a fresh start....but this is the only one in the village

Karen - once you are pregnant they will have to treat you  but they will still not prescribe drugs to support the pregnancy - or at least many won't. However they will have to do your scans and provide midwife care etc etc
Hope you get your crinone sorted in time and good luck for test day  

Suitcase
x


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## ElleJay (Sep 4, 2005)

My GP told me that, last year, the surgery had a memo from 'on high' specifically forbidding them to offer help/prescription/tests and/or support to people going abroad for any form of infertility treatment.  He doesn't agree with this, and sneaks whatever he can through for me, but I wonder if this kind of instruction has gone out to other areas too?

In my opinion - the HFEA is against people going for treatment abroad, because the clinics are not regulated to the same level as the UK.  Well, if it's regulation that makes us so good in their eyes, how come our success rates are so bad?  

London is the only area that is geared up to take advantage of the people going abroad for treatment - and I do mean take advantage......

It shouldn't be this hard - none of us are going through all this for fun.......

Oops - must be time for another Progesterone to chill me out - testing tomorrow - and I can't get a blood test at my usual local hospital as they 'can't help me with this anymore', even though I have always been paying for the privilege .

Lots of love to everyone on here

Lesley xxx


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## roze (Mar 20, 2004)

Sorry, everyone whos going through a lot during treatment.  Personally I would just arrange everything through your UK private consultant and your overseas clinic and forget about relying on GPs etc as their reaction is so variable.  Reliable meds can be acquired from Farmacia Cerati with a prescription from your overseas clinic. There is no need to do business with potentially dodgy on line pharmacies- just don't do that.
I wonder if the same on high message has been issued to my own GP?

As for questions of the HFEA and clinic regulation, this really has to make me laugh, as I feel so ripped off and let down my some of my UK clinics in misdiagnosis, overcharging, and taking our money for IVF and IUI treatments (around £20k) when my DH's swimmers were just not suitable for anything less than ICSI. So much for regulation.  And as for the one which took our money 4 years ago to go on the donor waiting list, have we heard from them?  Not a dickybird. They don't even have us on an active list. If I wasn't so preoccupied with other stuff I would pursue all of this and potentially seek damages.

I did also think of meeting with the head of my GPs practice to brief him/other staff on going abroad for tx, DE conception, our experiences both at home and abroad, and how they might assist other patients without compromising themselves. I may still do this but am prepared to have this rejected at the very outset.


all the best,


roze  xx


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## Bree (Mar 21, 2007)

Dear Karen, Sorry you are having a negative experience with your GP! I havent bothered with my GP or a UK consultant. As far as I am concerned my doctor is Dr Redondo at IM Barcelona. I have my scans and bloods done at Leeds Screening Centre (they are brill) and IM can fax prescriptions to the Italian Farmacia (beloved by many abroadies!) the meds arrive by post very quickly.
Once you are pregnant you should be treated like any other pregnant lady. I had no complaints there. 
Hope this helps, Bree xx


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## lily17 (Sep 25, 2008)

I think the HFEA should know the problems faced by women trying to conceive, but being let down by wide-ranging systems in the UK, especially the whole sprem & donor situation, even my UK consultant agrees the donor situation is pretty dire, as no-one is coming forward because of the anonyimity issue, and the lack of compensation for donors.
And the fact that medical staff and cntres vary so wildly really means some women have a fab positive experience and others are treated no better than criminals- its shocking for a small country thats supposed to be one of the the most developed in the world!!
Big sigh!
I have finally got my prescription from my Uk consultant!
took it to Tescos pharmacy and the pharmacist came out and said he had never seem this befor ein the 30 years of his working in pharmacy...Crinone? Is it unusual?
They will have it in tomorrow..only 6 days after I was supposed to have it....its taken me this long to try to get hold of it.....not holding out much hope of my treatment working without the drugs Im supposed to have taken...
hoping for a miricle!....... 

Karen xx


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