# Anyone see Daily Mail yesterday - twins at 47 - IVF with own eggs....!?



## heart1964

Did anyone see the article about Rick Parfitt from Status Quo and his wife in the Daily Mail yesterday?

She is claiming that she had IVF treatment with her own eggs at a clinic in Marbella and conceived twins first time.  Apparently she had tests which revealed that her eggs 'were the equivalent quality of a 35-year old's' (frankly I didn't know that this test existed and would like to have it myself!).  She was then told that 'the IVF had a 40 per cent chance of success' (I thought this was a figure more likely to be quoted to someone under 35.  At 44, 3 years younger than this woman, I have recently been quoted less than 5%).  Apparently they have given this interview to 'give hope' to other women in their forties struggling to conceive.

While I am happy that this treatment worked for them and they now have beautiful twins, I cannot help feeling that there is much in this article which does not ring true and rather than helping those of us struggling to conceive in our 40's it actually gives false hope to those not in possession of the true facts (probably sending them off on a wild goose chase seeking out treatment that doesn't exist) and insults our intelligence.  

It is obvious that many of the celebs that conceive in their mid 40's have gone the donor egg route but try and pass it off as their own eggs.  This is most unhelpful to those of us desperately TTC but also dangerous to those women in their mid to late 30's still delaying motherhood who may be tempted to delay still further when they read these stories.  It will make them think that conceiving with your own eggs in your mid 40's is easy when we all know it is far from the case. 

There is nothing wrong at all with using donor eggs, I am probably going to be going down this route soon myself, so why don't they either just admit what they have done or keep quiet about it full stop?! Grrr!!  As you can see this is a bit of an issue with me.

Or have I missed a trick?  Does anyone think that her story is feasible?

Good luck to everyone out there in their 40's TTC!!

Love, Heart xx


----------



## Ann_P

I can't imagine a responsible clinic giving a 47 year old woman a 40% chance of success UNLESS she had frozen & stored eggs of her own years ago? Why would she not admit to it though?


----------



## Miranda7

If her FSH, AMH etc were good, then they may well have given her that chance - it's only here in the UK they like to dash your dreams before even giving you a shot!

Lots of us on the poor responders' thread have been told 5-20% chance over here and gone abroad to be given new hope.

It's not irresponsible - it's just knowing your stuff and having better stats than many UK clinics who are still doing the same thing they did years ago (while we continue to pay them oodles to do so, why not?)

I tell you what rings patently untrue - unless she had a night nanny or Supernanny or something - is that he went away for three weeks and by the time he got back they were in 'a nice little routine!'
What utter tripe - anyone who's a new mum, getting into a routine that quick with newborn twins would have to have legions of staff!


----------



## Kazzie

Hi all

I am very interested in this article - will have a look on DM website...! For the reason that I am 48 and 35 weeks pg with our first child using my own eggs.

I wonder if his wife is referring to an AMH test - anti mullerian hormone - which gives you an indication of how many eggs you have left and the quality (see http://www.tdlpathology.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=201&Itemid=73). I had this test done and was amazed to get back a very good result..BUT I was told by more than one IVF consultant that even with a good AMH result it is still the *age* of the eggs that is the deciding factor. Knowing this I still decided to push ahead with IVF (against all advice) .. The clinic's stats for the last 20 years show no live births at this age using own eggs so the odds I was given for a live birth at my age was Zero. This is the same for all clinics in the UK (as far as I know). I was told I was only doing this for one reason - 'closure'. I completely agreed but still wanted to do it - I couldn't move on. By some miracle I was lucky and I am extremely grateful. Or it may be down to genes - my grandmother had my mum at 47. To be fair to the clinics they can only only go on experience and it would be unkind for them to raise hopes knowing that there is zero chance (well it was zero then...). I think maybe the more women who push for treatment at our age the more chance there is that the stats will change as some of us will do it I am just so grateful that my clinic gave me one last chance - I was being turned away again and again by others.

Someone at the clinic did say to me once that they find it annoying when celebrities have babies using donor eggs or previously frozen (younger) eggs but omit this information as it gives the rest of us false hopes. Don't know about Rick Parfitt's wife - would love to know though!

I don't have long now till baby is here and hope and pray that all will be well with him/her (scans indicate all is well).

I wish everyone luck here.
love to all
Kazie xxxx


----------



## Danni

Kazie
wow, congrats  the oldest Ive personally heard of and know who had fallen pregnant with own eggs is 46yrs. Im 42 and was just about to throw in the towel! It will make me do an AMH test next week but I dont really want further investigations anymore since Im thoroughly comfortable with DE( I had a baby through De and then an unexpected spontaneous conception (nr 2) but it would be nice to know cos i dont really trust the fsh test anymore
take care 
Danni xxx


----------



## Miranda7

Let us not forget the woman who conceived naturally aged 59! She thought she was going through the menopause, but ended up the UK's oldest mum instead.

All sorts of factors can affect your success in IVF - age is just one of them.


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

I know a lady who also got pregnant unplanned at 46 first baby
L x


----------



## Kazzie

Thanks Danni   !

and good luck with future treatment x

It's good to hear about more women conceiving naturally at a later age (it's more likley than through IVF I've been told). There was someone on FF yesterday - Nuala - from a couple of years ago who popped in (hi if you're around Nuala! X) who went through 2 ivf with bfn and went on to have a natural bfp at 45, gave birth at 46 and now has a lovely baby girl! 

I think it is worth going overseas for treatment if you feel you will have a better chance - Miranda, I didn't know they had better odds and would have considered this if my clinic hadn't agreed to treat me.

Kazzie


----------



## laurainhk

I am glad i have come across this story...it gives us all some hope, which is what we need the most!

The reason why i want to try with my own eggs despite my age, and statistics,  is simple. I have seen friends get pregnant naturally and deliver healthy babies at age 45 and 46. I believe my eyes rather than clinics' stats.

In my case a tubal problem is making chances of a natural conception next to zero, hence IVF.

I have also heard of friends of friends having a successful IVF cycle with their own eggs at age 44 and 45.

If the FSH is low and the AMH results are good, you are nowhere near menopause, so you probably have a few good eggs left. 

Many years ago i met a Russian lady whose single mother had her at age 50. Mind you, back then there was no IVF, and her mother, a famous theatre actress wasn't exactly living healthy. Long nights fuelled with vodka after her shows...but i guess she was young at heart, still enjoying her life to the fullest and having lots of younger suitors 

Egg donation is an option when other attempts fail. But i suspect that some clinics try to persuade women over 40 to go down that route because it's a lot easier and profitable for them. Call me a cynic if you like.

We need more stories like this one...keep them coming!


----------



## raphael

Hear Hear!! Love the story about the Russian actress. I too believe there is hope for us all. I will be 44 next month but still want to keep trying with my own eggs. It really isn't that unusual is it for women to conceive and give birth in their 40s. My mum was telling me about a colleague of hers some years ago who was well into her forties. This lady and her husband desperately wanted a baby and tried for so long with every different method available. They spent most of their savings on treatment. They had a little bit of the nest egg left over and had come to the realisation that this would no longer be going towards the upkeep of their much dreamed of  family. They decided to take a year off from their places of employment, withdraw the remainder of their savings and travel the world as a couple. A fresh start with no more baby talk. Life as a couple beckoned. Anyway, they had a ball while they were away. Lo and behold, a few months after their return to London and work etc, the lady discovered she was pregnant, naturally at the ripe old age of 42. She had a beautiful healthy baby and went on to have TWO more!! Naturally!!! There you go ladies ... woman in 40s, told to give up as it wasn't going to happen for her, she is now the proud mother of three.

Let's all hang on to these positive thoughts and GO FOR IT!!


----------



## wishing4

hello heart...i have sent you a couple of Personal messages on this site..hope to hear from you soon


----------



## annacameron

these are brilliant stories, thank you ladies. 

while agreeing with current medical theory that female age is very important, i am starting to think that too little attention is being given to male age. my friends who have succeeded mostly have husbands who are same age or less than them, the spectacular successes being much younger men. 

OTOH, it could be that women who a revery young "internally" attract younger men so it's a self selecting group....

re the DM article, I tend to think that if someone has the OE quality for twins at 47, why was she doing IVF?  tubes maybe?


----------



## laurainhk

yes, tubal problems. I think she had an ectopic pregnancy before.

I agree that not enough attention is given to paternal age in the media.
Fertility clinics know how important it is, that's why sperm donors are usually young.

I have come across an 'older mums' yahoo group, and read that several women reported IVF success at 45 and natural conception at 46 and 47.

I live in China, where people believe that sleeping with a young partner can do wonders to your health and life expectancy. They don't talk about fertility (too repressed to talk openly about sex!), but the old saying goes that a young woman can extend the life of an old man, and a young man can extend the life of an old woman. 

I will ask Reprofit to match me with an 18 y/o sperm donor


----------



## annacameron

better still, ask them to send him round ;-)


----------



## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ ©

Hi

I've only just seen this thread....I love to hear positive stories like this !

I turned 40 in January and went through all the usual concerns about my age, especially since my nan, my mum & my aunt all had hysterectomies early, before menopause (my mum was 45, due to severe endo), so I have no idea what my genetic maternal menopausal age would be.  However, my hormone levels have always been good and I had FSH done last month and it's 7.3 IU/l (gone up since last test done last year before IVF when it was around 6.5 IU/l I think, but I know it can fluctuate!)....I've not had AMH done as couldn't wangle on NHS but I plan to have this done before we embark on another IVF.  I also know I'm ovulating fine as progesterone last month was 50 nmol/l (and that was on cd20 as cd21 turned out to be a Saturday & I ovulated cd14/15).

I've just had to have another lap/hysteroscopy but at follow up appointment our consultant said that everything looks fine now (all endo & adhesions removed & amazingly no polyps, fibroids or adhesions in my womb and it looked healthy on cd4).  Since my hormone levels appear good, we've so far had really good grade embies/blasts, our consultant has agreed that having another fresh IVF with my own eggs is the way forward, hopefully getting to blasts and if really lucky, adding some embies to the ones we still have in the freezer.  

We even still hold out a little bit of hope for a natural miracle (my DPs only just turned 34 so I'm one of those with the younger partner !)

I really find this heartening (is that a word ?!) to read these positive stories and certainly gives me hope....no towel being thrown in here just yet !!


Kazzie......fantastic news hun....I see you should be having your precious treasure sometime very soon  


Good luck to all of us "40 and overs"  

Take care
Natasha xx


----------



## pinkflowers

Hi ladies

Oh boy, you've cheered me up, bring on the toy boys!!!!

love pinkflowers xxxx


----------



## annacameron

exactly!  now THAT would put a spring in our steps!

Natasha, sorry to ask personal qu, but are they checking your e2 as well with the FSH? (have seen SO much negligence on this journey that i wanted to check but Im sure you have this base covered...) also, tlaking of e2, you did best on your natural FETs. what conclusions are they drawing from that? Beer says stim drugs and commensurate high e2 - which you will probably have as you produce many follicles - can be counterproductive to implantation...worth investigating if not already done though i suspect/fear it has been??!!!


----------



## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ ©

Anna

Yes, I have had E2 tested alongside FSH, amongst numerous others & my E2 levels are perfectly normal, not high and my FSH is very good for my age.  Just because I produce lots of eggs doesn't mean I have high E2 levels in natural cycle, which I don't.  Even when I have overstimmed they weren't as high as expected.....on last IVF my E2 rose to around 13,000 with 40+ follies but then plateaued and I had 30 mature eggs collected.

I've read Dr Beers book and my consultant is an advocate of immune testing & associated treatment for raised NK cells.  My problem with implantation is due to raised nk cells and blood clotting problems.  

I do appreciate your comments but whilst you may have experienced negligence and had unhappy experiences with hospitals/consultants, we are extremely happy with ours who has done numerous investigations and tweaked each cycle.  The plan is to start steriods earlier in treatment (when I start stimms as opposed to day of EC) when we have our next IVF.

Good luck
Natasha


----------



## ALFONSIE

Dear Heart,

I am a midwife and met a women who had healthy twins with husband using  his sperm and her own eggs in an IVF cycle and another lady th at who conceived twins naturally at the grand old age of 52 much to her great distress as the pregnancy was very much unplanned.  I believe that they are now 2 years old and delightful.  One has to trust that anything is possible.


----------



## raphael

Dear Alfonsie, thank you so much for your post. I am on day 6 of my stims and will probably be doing egg collection next week, if all goes well. I know that all the odds are against me at my age, I have just turned 44. However, something is compelling me to have this last try with my own eggs. Sometimes I feel as if  I am chasing fools gold and it is hard to stay positive but I really want to give it my best shot. Your post has really lifted my spirits. Thank you and all the best. Raphael.


----------



## Lilo2

Wow this is a heartening thread!  Not so much for me (TTC 11 years and when I was 37 my consultant told me my chances of success with IVF and own eggs was 0-5% and could well be 0%).

I must say I've taken some of these celebrity stories with a pinch of salt but it seems I'm just a cynic...

Lilo


----------



## ♥Tamsin♥

Love positive uplifting posts like this.....I'm getting a AMH test done soon, so fingers crossed!

Huge congrats to all those who have succeeded in their dream and had a baby at 40+

Tamsin


----------



## Jumanji

This is all very interesting.

On AMH, do remember that, as with all these, it can only test for likely numbers not quality.  And while egg quality usually goes hand in hand with age that is not absolute.  My sister is an example here.  She had high FSH and not all that many eggs on IVF.  However, they all fertilised and she got 4 Grade 1 embies and 1 Grade 2 and ended up with twins and a couple of frosties. Pretty good for 38! (If you are wondering, she did try naturally but being unbiological she tried on day 14 each cycle which may well have missed her ovulation and she was rushed to IVF very fast after her FSH result so she didn't try long anyway!! I still believe she may well have managed it by herself given more time and education on when to do the deed!).

I also couldn't agree more with Anna Cameron on male age.  There is even some data on this.  In 2003 there was a study (one of the few) on age and fertility by David Dunson.  It found that, in couples with no known fertility problems, the percentage failing to conceive within a year ranged from 8% for 19-26-year-olds to 13 to 14% for 27 to 34-year-olds to 18% for 35-39-year-olds. Regardless of age, most of the women who failed to conceive within the first 12 cycles conceived in the next 12.  Only 3% of 19 to 26-year-olds, 6% of 27 to 34-year-olds and 9% of 35 to 39-year-olds failed to conceive in the second year, PROVIDED the male partner was aged under 40.  The proportion of women who failed to become pregnant after one year of trying for those aged between 35 and 39 rose from 18% to 28% if the male partner was over 40. After the second year, the figure was 9% with male partners under 40 and 16% with male partners over 40.

The main focus from the media on this study was, inevitably, haranguing us all by banging on about new evidence that female fertility actually starts to decline at age 27!  Very little attention was paid to the fact that (a) it showed that most couples with no known problems were still pretty fertile in their late 30s and (b) the male age factor appeared important and merited further study.

There is already evidence linking certain chromosomal abnormalities with older fathers (e.g. certain types of dwarfism) and there is even some evidence that Downs Syndrome may also be linked to older fathers and not just older mothers, although few places point this out. Trouble is the medical establishment is male dominated and seems to prefer to bang on endlessly about female age and ignore male age! 

I have to confess I am a bit of a history boffin and love to read historical biographies.  I always find it fascinating that women gave birth well up into their 40s then without anyone batting an eyelid.  It was just considered normal.  It is also misleading when the media suggests that over 40 mothers are somehow a "modern" phenomenon unknown in years gone by.  The latest stats (just out) tell us that 26,419 babies were born to mothers over 40 last year and point out that this has more than doubled from 12,914 in 1997.  Generally, this is attributed to advancing ART.  But is that really any more of a factor than choice given that most women who give birth over 40 conceive naturally?  In 1938, 27,200 women over 40 gave birth (25,000 in the 40-44 age group had babies and 2,200 babies were born to women over 45).  So that is more than now and given the population difference, the birth rate for over 40s in 1938 would have been considerably higher.  Births to the over 40s only really feel steeply when abortion and the pill became readily available.

I do feel strongly that there is still so much that fertility docs don't know about infertility that they have a tendency to cite age when it may not be an issue at all.  Equally, male age is still dismissed as an issue and not properly researched even when there is mounting evidence it could be just as important!  

Good luck to everyone here and don't let the doom and gloom docs depress you too much on age - they just can't seem to resist it!


----------



## Kazzie

LittleJenny:

_It is also misleading when the media suggests that over 40 mothers are somehow a "modern" phenomenon unknown in years gone by._

how true! My maternal grandmother had my mum at 47 - that was 72 years ago....... 

Kazzie x


----------



## annacameron

yes - I think the difference is that those women often were having their umpteenth child by then. THere is definitely something in the interaction between the uterine lining and the attempting-to-implant embryo that is not at all udnerstood but is key to success. 

i often read on here of ladies ttc for years and then being successful at IVF. their next child is conceived naturally, in a sufficient number of cases to be worth remarking upon. what was that about?  did they suddenly find the good eggs that could form strong embros and impant, x years after starting to ttc and in an environment of declining egg quality? I think not. There's something else going on. 

my fear is that, while consultants can make their fortunes with IVF as currently structured, they have no incentive whatsoever to research and really find answers. 

it makes me sad to read of ladies with unexaplined IF being "grateful" to be "given the chance by the X Clinic"  to cycle and spend their money again and again without  any substantive analytical conclusions whatsoever.


----------



## Violet66

Hmm - i'm very skeptical about this story. Doesn't ring true to me.


----------



## Guest

Kazzie said:


> Hi all
> 
> I am very interested in this article - will have a look on DM website...! For the reason that I am 48 and 35 weeks pg with our first child using my own eggs.
> 
> I wonder if his wife is referring to an AMH test - anti mullerian hormone - which gives you an indication of how many eggs you have left and the quality (see http://www.tdlpathology.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=201&Itemid=73). I had this test done and was amazed to get back a very good result..BUT I was told by more than one IVF consultant that even with a good AMH result it is still the *age* of the eggs that is the deciding factor. Knowing this I still decided to push ahead with IVF (against all advice) .. The clinic's stats for the last 20 years show no live births at this age using own eggs so the odds I was given for a live birth at my age was Zero. This is the same for all clinics in the UK (as far as I know). I was told I was only doing this for one reason - 'closure'. I completely agreed but still wanted to do it - I couldn't move on. By some miracle I was lucky and I am extremely grateful. Or it may be down to genes - my grandmother had my mum at 47. To be fair to the clinics they can only only go on experience and it would be unkind for them to raise hopes knowing that there is zero chance (well it was zero then...). I think maybe the more women who push for treatment at our age the more chance there is that the stats will change as some of us will do it I am just so grateful that my clinic gave me one last chance - I was being turned away again and again by others.
> 
> Someone at the clinic did say to me once that they find it annoying when celebrities have babies using donor eggs or previously frozen (younger) eggs but omit this information as it gives the rest of us false hopes. Don't know about Rick Parfitt's wife - would love to know though!
> 
> I don't have long now till baby is here and hope and pray that all will be well with him/her (scans indicate all is well).
> 
> I wish everyone luck here.
> love to all
> Kazie xxxx


Which clinic in Marbella did this lady have treatment at?
Kazzie you are such an inspiration! 
Does anyone know if you can take clomid and try and concieve naturally?


----------



## Kazzie

Shad
Tried to PM you - but your inbox is full!!

Kazzie xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Guest

Kazzie said:


> Shad
> Tried to PM you - but your inbox is full!!
> 
> Kazzie xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


i have freed up some space now


----------



## Be Lucky

Shad.know ur msg might have been some time ago re clomid.i conceived "naturally" just before i was 40 with clomid but had a mc at 6 weeks.3 ivfs with bfn last year and as u can c natural bfp!25 wks 2days 2day.over the moon and very lucky-dh and i sure ivf helped but wont forget the struggle-found it very hard to relax in this pregnancy caus of previous mc and disappointments.we were going down the donor route when conceived  naturally.the stories on here great but wld not want to give women false hope.good luck everyone berniex


----------

