# Feeling so hurt and angry.



## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

I'm so f*ing angry. So so angry and hurt. How f*ing insensitive can some people be??

My cousins wife's C-Section was brought forward from next week to today.I found out yesterday while I was having my day of sobbing so it kind of passed me by as just another thing.

I have had my phone turned off all day so that I can revise without hearing the birth announcement and going even more off the rails. 

Just turned my phone on, and I had a multi-media message but it didn't say who it was from, so i opened it. Instead of texting me to tell me the news, my cousin has sent me a photo of this tiny new-born baby. 

I can't beleive how insensitive that is after all the times I have cried on his shoulder? I know he's just excited but he doesn't seem to have registered that I have very recently been told I will NEVER have my own children. Not 'maybe one day' or 'keep trying' or 'you never know' but categoriaclly NEVER. NEVER EVER. IT HURTS.
HE can't surely have expected me to move on. I can't believe I have been worrying about hurting his feelings by not seeing him for a while, when he is obviously so able to disregard MY feelings.


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## crystal4314 (Nov 29, 2004)

what an moron. I'm sorry he was so insensitive hon.


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi Ermey
I can totally empathise with you.....its painful enough getting news that a close relative, friend has had a baby... 
The only thing is not everyone understands the depth of our feelings and how painful this is to us. I am not sure if your cousin actually thought about what he was doing, as the joy of things possibly took over? Can i ask is he usually a understanding and warm person?
This is such a difficult issue dealing with infertility because it has such depths to it and i believe that some people just do not get it. It doesn't matter what you say, it just doesn't ever register and probably never will... Whereas you get some people that totally understand and will tread easily with you and those Ermey are the ones you want to surround yourself with......
Its sad and it must hurt you that you took the time out to explain to your cousin about not being able to have children, to fall onto deaf ears...Unbeknown to him that the photo that you received from him can stay with us for such along time......
Have you thought about writing a letter about how you feel. As getting it down on paper is so therapuetic and you will be surprised how much you will feel better afterwards..Although it may be best not to send it because you may be surprised how angry you feel and that it might cause problems by sending it...(you may be surprised about your language..ha ha..
Sometimes what makes it also difficult that he is a part of your family so that makes it alittle more difficult....but from this point on just do whats best for you. Take your time and if you cannot visit then do not.....i am sure they will understand and if they do not then don't stress yourself trying to please, when you feel so like crap yourself...Remember they are ok they have want they want, but your pain still goes on...
Have you spoken to your hubby? find a way to make a plan of how to deal with these situations and it certainly will help and take the pressure off you...
I can totally understand i am sure most of us have experienced something that has cut to the core....i have had a scan through the post...and so much more....thx...just what we needed!!!!!!!!!! 
Ermey it does get easier though.....if that helps....
lots of love astridxxx


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Hi Ermey huni,

God that is soooo S**t and I know it hurts like HELL....

I get totally amazed how insensitive people can be ..... they really dont understand the sheer depth of pain, despair and utter desperation (through frustration I mean) we feel.

I can empathise with your upset and anger and know one knows how much this hurts.  Only hearing of a  pregnancy/birth is like another Twist of the knife deep in our hearts but when we get sent baby photos into the bargain, I think it throws up feelings of sheer disappointment towards the people who do this and of course, that throws up a whole load of other issues on TOP of the IF.  It's so, so crap and I can empathise with how you are feeling.

I;m just glad you came on here to talk to us huni .....  Thank GOD for FF....

Given the insensitivity of your cousin, I hope this brings about a "positive" here .... by that I mean I hope it gives you the strenght to look after yourself now without feeling guilty about anybody else.

You are going through hell just now and no-one will ever understand.  It is so important now to look after yourself.  Only do as much as you feel you can handle .... don't feel guilty about it.  People won't understand but if they don't even TRY to, then they're not worth the worry as far as I'm concerned hun.  We are so vulnerable now and forever and we must do whatever we can to stay strong, protect ourselves and maintain some self-preservation dignity in all of this......  It's the only thing we CAN control.

I hope I dont sound like I'm banging on preaching here but I feel so passionate about this because i know how much it hurts.

Remember we are here for you huni ... and each other

Take good care of yourself huni - don't bow into any pressure,
All my love
Gill xo

(((((((( HUG ))))))))


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## ruby k (Jun 2, 2004)

Ermey
i am so sorry at this insensitivity on the part of your cousin - i really am 
I have been there - as I know so many of us have....and it doesn't get that much easier - but as the others have said - please take care of yourself and surround yourself with the people who at least make the effort to understand (even if they do get it wrong a lot of the time...!  ) If its any consolation, by BF sends me many text pics of her new baby -  and she is one of the few people who know what I've been/am going through...?
I'm so sorry you're feeling so rubbish    
lots of love, ruby xxx


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

To all the lovely girls on this thread:

I was thinking about this a bit more and my theory is, 

Maybe people dont realise they're being Bl**dy insensitive because they know we want a baby, therefore, we must be interested in babies/baby talk/baby pics/ and everything else baby, therefore they think we'd be really interested and ENJOY seeing their baby pics?

Am I right? Any other thoughts on this?

Love Gill xo


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi Girls
Such lovely replies!!!
Gill i think you have a good point!!!! I think that the whole world knows we are in a difficult position so they do things that maybe they think is helping us....
Infact it makes us feel even worse....and i suppose what is seen as a kind gesture really really hurts and pees us off.....
I dread the Godparents bit....i understand and apprieciate the thoughts and kindness behind it all...but it makes me feel even more inadequate. I know others are pleased with this and i think thats great...but this is one area of my life that i find hard...
I know this is on the cards for us at the moment and to be honest i am going to decline...i know it sounds awful but i just cannot do it...I will find my own peace somewhere else like sponsering a child or becoming a carer sometime in the future....OR open a dogs home because they are gorgeous!!!
Sorry if i have banged on......
love astridxx


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## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

Hello everyone.

Firstly I want to say how glad I am that I have found you guys. You really understand and you are so supportive. Thank you. 



I really relate to all the comments of support.
I think it is exactly right that my cousin, who has usually got a very big heart (although he is quite self-absorbed too), has just got completely wrapped up in his own happiness. Of course thats totally acceptable really, but I guess I am wrapped up in the opposite - intense pain - and so our 2 worlds aren't very comaptible right now.

I still feel angry with him, but I think now that some of this feeling is because it I am angry in general, and his actions have just opened that all up. I woke up yesterday and lay in bed and after I while I realised that I was even feeling angry with the baby..God I feel awful saying that. I felt like such an evil cow, it made me even more miserable!

Its also true that some good things come out of it...I have been supressing my feelings since we were told no more tx, and been going along like nothing has happened, and now some of it is being let out whihc is much more healthy really. Also, Gill you are so right, that I now don't feel bad for not going and seeing them, because its made me realise how happy and joyful they are, and therefore me not going and seeing them is like nothing compared with the pain I am going through, and they'll get over it. And besdies...I'm still miffed with him!!!!

I don't feel I can tackle him about this. Im not very good at expressing anger/disappointment with people, and also I don't want to be the nasty poisonous black cloud at this happy time in their lives. But writing in a 'letter' is a really good idea. I was keeping a journal of my feelings during tx, and I think I might start it up again after my exams.

Ruby - it did make me feel better to know that other people also have to put up with receiving thoughtless pictures and know how it feels, but feel gutted that you have to go through this too!

And I definately think that some people do have a weird logic that we obviously like babies and therefore maybe it makes us feel better to be involved with them. I cn kind of see where they're coming from, because sometimes I find my cousins other little boy very comforting....but it not always like that and I'm sorry but it has to be MY terms, when I'M ready, not sprung on me or forced on me.

Give me animals as comfort any day! Astrid, I'm not allowed cats, and we can't commit to a dog but I have 2 gorgeous fat little boy Guinea Pigs, who are great to cuddle! They are long-haired so I even have to brush their hair and cut it when it gets too long, Ha ha! Talk about baby substitutes!


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## Mamf (Jan 2, 2006)

Hi, 

I too have a very close friend who has just had his first baby with his wife and is bombarding me with photos and updates of his baby and I really think he is trying to be inclusive - seems like he's over including me as he knows we can't have babies and wants to make us feel better. He would be horrified if he knew how painful it is to see yet another picture of his baby and it's a really hard one to sort out. 

He and his wife have just asked us on holiday with them and the baby and his stepchildren but I have had to turn it down as I don't think he can see how painful it will be to spend so much time with them. 

I agree about the anger too, it shocks me at how bitter I can become and how disdainful I am of parents and people with children. This isn't me and it scares me yet I'm also a bit of a chicken about standing up to people so maybe I don't help the situation! 

I agree that there does seem to be a misconception from people that as I'm wanting a baby I want to know about their children and want to be included in everything - we've just come back from our first first birthday party and it was excrutiating; a lady asked me in the loos whether I had children, when I said no she just walked off! We both felt so excluded and like freaks as we were the only childfree people there, but my friends thought that they were doing the right thing in asking us and we were too polite to say no. That will be the first and last time for that! 

Sorry for rambling, I just wanted you all to know that it's the same for me and sometimes people feel that they're being kind when they are ignorant of how painful it can be and how much of a failure it can make you feel. 

Take care and love to you all

Sam
xxxx


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## irisheyes (Feb 2, 2005)

You seem a bit better ermey from that last post. I am so sorry for the insensitive way your cousin dealt with things. 

I had a family meal yesterday and i was just thinking of how everything will start again for me i.e. the last few years were spent seeing all my friends have children and maybe this year after my iui was to give me time to regain my strength before it all happens again. I have 3 weddings coming up-

My sisters in Aug/ other sister next year and brother (looks like according to his girlfriend the year after).I am already planning how i will deal with it all. I was thinking of how to approach going to see my sister and baby(and she's not even married yet!!!!). But i know that my mum will probably want me to go and visit with her (as she is separated) to my sisters 100 miles away but i think i will have to tell her " No, i will go in my own time and possibly with just dh" as i know he will understand. I think my mum would just expect me to be happy!!!

I am dreading it already and i totally empathise with you on this one!!! Take care- don't go and visit until YOU are ready!!! Ok hun??


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## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

Thanks Irish. yes, I promise!!  
It would only make things worse for both me and him, I think.

Can really relate to you planning on how to cope with seeing your sister and baby when she's not even married yet! I'm the same. My younger sister (6 years younger) is getting married next year and my first thought was to feel worried about how to deal with her getting pg etc. sometimes I think i am turning into a self-obsessed, bitter woman! But at the same time I am longing to be part of her childrens lives....goodness listen to me, she not even getting married till next August!

When my exams are over, and I get back from holiday, i am going to investigate counselling, art classes (you've inspired me  ) and starting yoga again. I will get through this somehow.

take care all.
x


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## irisheyes (Feb 2, 2005)

When is your holiday and where? I hope you have a great time!!! I am off to South of France on 30th June for a week-looking forward to it!!!


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## ruby k (Jun 2, 2004)

hi all
Yes the photo/text photo thing is a real toughie isn't i? Gill, I think you are right that people assume we want a baby therefore like babies, therefore will want to see pics of babies!! And I guess that is logical...but the reality is that its SO hard to see them isn't it? Especially the first ones when they are so tiny and new. I really struggle with this one, because all of the above is true - I love babies - and sometimes have absolutely no problem interacting with them at work (i work p/t in a busy shop) - I guess the difference is that I can choose when I do that - and not have the 'joy' inflicted on me at random!! I have often really struggled to get on with the day after a baby picture has found its way to me. I feel terrible saying that - because often the person sending it truly has no idea how hurtful it is - and as many of you have said - people are just so carried away in their own thing they just don't realise. However, I find being excluded from seeing pics really hard too - as it just emphasises the isolation  ...   I think the hardest part of this is that I am often the emotional polar opposite of my friends with babies - they are at one of the happiest points in their life, and I am at one of the hardest and most empty of mine. I know having kids is difficult and tiring etc - and I don't imagine that everyone who has kids is permanently on cloud 9 - but you probably all know what I mean..

Irish and Ermey - I totally know what you mean about worrying in advance of people falling pregnant - its the pits. So often I have had that horrible creeping feeling..I am lucky in that all the 'significant' people in my life have had one two or three kids already...! (5 last year inlcuding sister and BF in the same week - arrgh!) Its awful. The only piece of advice I can give is this (given to me by another FF friend) - try to imagine that these people are already pregnant. Get used to it in your head before it actually happens - imagine yourself congratulating them etc - and then  hopefully by the time they do announce it (if they do), then you will be used to it and it won't seem such a shock? I am doing this with a good friend who I suspect is about to announce her preg - hoping its giong to work.... 

Lots of love, ruby xx
ps ermey - yoga and art definitely the way forward!!


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## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

Irish, we are going to Kenya on safari for a week, Masai Mara etc and then have a few nights at Mombasa beach    It is our dream holiday, booked as a reaction to our bad news on the tx front... DH booked it 3 days after we got the news! We go on 24 June. Really feel lucky to be able to go.  Hope you have a great holiday too! 
 

Ruby - Evrything you said there really summed it all up. I think its true that it makes such a difference if we CHOOSE to interact with a baby, rather than having it thrust upon us, with no warning, or no time prepare ourselves psychologically. I completely agree too, that I would probaly be miserable if I was being excluded from peoples news, because it would definately feel very isolating. I guess what it comes down to is needing to be included but handled in a sensitive and understanding way, with tact and imagination about how we are feeling. But hey, I guess not everyone can be like that.

And it is so true that isthe contrast of our emotions with theirs that makes it even harder. I'm only too well aware that my cousin is experiencing intense joy and happiness right now, while I am going through my biggest emotional challenge. 

I think it is important to remember that having a baby doesn't always wave  magic wand of perfection over peoples lives. A really good book I have ('Conquering Infertility' by Alice Domar - I highly recommend it) talks abut how people with children sometimes seem insensitive or uncaring about our problems because they have other pressing worries, and are often jealous of our freedom, spare cash, holidays, good relationships with husbands etc etc. Mind you, I know that we would all gladly swap most f their problems for ours    Except, I have to say, I treasure my relationship with DH more than anything else, and honestly beleive I wouldn't swap it for a child.

Waffling again. Must go now, have more exams this week.


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Ermey, you are so right,

I think the IF affect SO many parts of lives because not only are we dealing with the loss of a dream, a baby, a family, but we are often also dealing with the loss of friends/family members as we are so sensitive that we end up resenting these people for their texts/baby pics being thrust in our face that we gradually begin to step back, then we lose touch, then we dont speak at all ....... (in my experience anyway). this seems to be happening to me with more and more of my friends. I have already lost one close friend and I'm beginning to just get "p***ed off" with hearing the rest bang on about kids, schools, teachers, the price of fecking nappies etc etc - it just hurts so much. I have tried to get involved, ie. going with Mum to pick up kids from school - I cried.

WE are dealing with so much more than the loss of a family and it hurts like hell ......

We must be STRONG WOMEN that's all I can say.

Group Hug (((((((((((((((([br]Posted on: 13/06/06, 12:14(OOPS, PRESSED "POST" TO QUICKLY THERE - HERE'S MY MESSAGE IN FULL THIS TIME!! SORRY GIRLIES!!)

Ermey, you are so right,

I think the IF affect SO many parts of lives because not only are we dealing with the loss of a dream, a baby, a family, but we are often also dealing with the loss of friends/family members as we are so sensitive that we end up resenting these people for their texts/baby pics being thrust in our face that we gradually begin to step back, then we lose touch, then we dont speak at all ....... (in my experience anyway). this seems to be happening to me with more and more of my friends. I have already lost one close friend and I'm beginning to just get "p***ed off" with hearing the rest bang on about kids, schools, teachers, the price of fecking nappies etc etc - it just hurts so much. I have tried to get involved, ie. going with Mum to pick up kids from school - I cried.

WE are dealing with so much more than the loss of a family and it hurts like hell ......

We must be STRONG WOMEN that's all I can say.

Group Hug (((((((((((((((( GROUP HUG )))))))))))))))))

Love to all, and GOOD LUCK TO ERMEY & ASTRID ON THEIR EXAMS TODAY - GO GIRLS - SOCK IT TO 'EM!!

Gill xo[br]Posted on: 13/06/06, 12:15
.................... what is going ON with these posts of mine today?


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## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

Sorry to resurrect this old chestnut, but need somewhere to let it out.  No need for replies, just needed an outlet for a rant. 

Am still under pressure from my cousin and his wife to go and meet their new baby. I feel hounded. My cousin rang 3 times in 24 hours, (I didn't pick up the phone), and his wife sent me a text. I agonised over what to say and in the end DH said just be honest. So I sent a text explaining that we're feeling fragile, but we think the world of them, and we hope they understand its nothing personal, and hope to meet the baby after our holiday (ha ha). 

Their reply was 'of course we understand, but do come and meet the baby when you get back'. In other words they THINK they understand but are going to carry on putting pressure on us anyway. 

I feel really very churned up about this. I feel like why should they expect us to make concessions to how they're feeling: i.e excited and wanting to show off their baby, when they don't seem to me to be thinking about how we're feeling. The frustrating thing is they THINK they're being considerate, but don't seem to have any imagination about how painful it is. 

My aunty, told me he's worried we'll lose touch, but why can't he just be a bit more patient. Isn't it obvious that seeing a 2 week old baby (plus a 1 year old in tow) is going to be agony  And if he really wants to make sure we stay in touch, why doesn't he ever get a babysitter so we can go out without the babies. Don't get me wrong, I love his first little boy, but since he was born almost 18 months ago we haven't once been out without him, we ALWAYS have to go to their house, so there's no respite if we are having a down day.

I'm not really in a frame of mind to handle all this very well, and the more he puts pressure on me the more I want to stay away. As it is, I feel that the moment we get back from our holiday of a lifetime I am going to be under pressure to go round there. Its going to be the only way to shut them up.

Meanwhile, his sister who is nearly 7 years younger than me has accidentally got pg. She is married but they have hardly two pennies to their name, and she and her husband are devastated and have been sobbing because they don't want it. well excuse me but in my eyes they should have been more careful and thought about the consequences. 
Life sucks.

Sorry for the cynical and ranting post, but this is the only place I can really say how I'm feeling.


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi Ermey
I can see that you are really going through a tough time at the moment. Such an awful position to be in and you must feel like you have been split into two trying to please everyone....
Well that is the word 'pleasing everyone'
It is difficult because your cousin says he is frightened that you are going to grow apart...i think that is a lovely statement to make to you because he and his partner obviously care.. The problem being is that he still doesn't seem to register with your feelings and how difficult this whole situation is for you both...
Well if you cannot face going to see them yet then you cannot.....if you feel that you are banging your head against the wall and there is that pressure, then you will feel even worse if you 'give in'...
I know that you are going away on friday this will do you good to collect your thoughts...Maybe dropping them a letter so that they can read it when you are away may help them digest the information. It will also help because you will not be there for them to contact you and this will maybe give them time to understand...
Maybe the letter could contain info like you would like to see the baby (thankyou for the photos, as you know what he looks like) but only when you are ready...and that will take time. Its not about your relationship with them but it flipping hurts...please just take the time out to understand if the shoe was on the other foot?
If they do not understand from there, then you are banging your head against the wall....so possibly make the decision to go and see them in your own time...
The other question is could your hubby go to represent you?? my Dh has done that before and it kind of has an impact because the penny drops that it must be really hard for the others who have the baby...
Just think whats best for you both......you wouldn't go if you had flu and could stay away from a baby for weeks, so why cannot you go when you feel like so much pain is involved?...
Hey with regards to your sister this is not an easy one...maybe its best to make it clear that it is too painful for you to listen to their issues on the pregnancy and can they share it with others...This is the LAST THing you need....i feel for you!!!!
Just try and get some rest on your holiday and it will probably help to put things into place a little bit for when you return...
Kenya is great by the way....have you been before
love astridxx


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## irisheyes (Feb 2, 2005)

Ermey, astrids idea about a letter is a good idea especially when you are awaY. But to be honest will these people really ever understand our pain? i dont think so. I will be better equipped to reply on this when and if my sister tells me next year that she is pg. I know i will fall apart. she lives 100 miles away, and i know my mum will want me to go with her to see them. but i will have to decide then if i need to go alone and when. I have explained all my if issues to my sister in last 6 mths(in more detail than to my mum and she couldnt believe what we have been thru-all the test etc) so i know she will actually understand more than my mum.

I wrote all my details down for my sister to see(didnt tell dh that!) i.e blood tests, laperoscopy, more bloods, iui x2 ,more bloods,tests for miscarriage. Maybe if you write him a letter you could explain how much time out of your life this has taken up as well as explaining the emotional side of things! Good luck honey -think about it when you are away- BUT NOT TOO MUCH!!!! I will be away when you get back for nearly 2 weeks. I will pm you my email if you want to keep in touch as i can get that on my mobile! Might not be able to reply til i come home tho-its tempermental!


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi Ermey
I am with Irisheyes explaining what you have been through with a list...It is there in black and white hopefully that will give them an idea what you have been through...
Also i think you are right i don't think people will ever understand but they can atleast try. I have never been through a divorce (an example) but i try to understand the pain and everything that goes with it....

Emey also food for thought...maybe you could end the letter with 'i have tried everything to be a mum' more than most women, have who have been fortunate for it to happen easily...and thats the bit that really really hurts, because i so much deserve it and thats why i feel so raw and cannot face a baby at the 'moment'. Thats not saying never will i just need time...

I hope that doesn't sound as if i am preaching...
Have a good rest as Irisheyes says do not think to much about it whilst you are away...
love astridxx


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## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

Thanks girls  

It helps so much to read your replies, it makes me feel less like I'm just being selfish and neurotic  

I won't ask DH to represent me, as he's dreading it as much as I am. But its a good idea to write them a letter; it had gone through my head but wondered whether it would just make things worse. i guess like you say, it depends how you phrase things and if i try and be tactful and not too defensive, ha ha, it could help them understand.I might write it tomorrow and then see how I feel about posting it. Where to begin though??  What really frustrates me is that I'm kind of assuming they know all the ins-and-outs of our tx, cos we discussed it often, and also she's a GP and he's a nurse! So you think they's have a clue....but sometimes I do think they are so used to medical stuff they forget the emotional toll.

One thing its made me realise is how I've not been facing my emotions about the IF. I'm still blocking it out, and every time it comes to the surface I push it away, and I guess one of the reasons I'm in such turmoil is because my cousin isn't allowing me to push it away!  I know I need to start facing things soon, but how do you begin? I am scared to face it. Scared to contemplate what it really means that we've stopped having tx.

The holiday will give us some much needed breathing space. perhaps I'll feel better when we get back and able to cope at least for 1 night when we see the baby.   Astrid - no never been to Kenya before...am very excited! Have you been?

Irish - thats so sweet of you hun, I really appreciate it but I won't pester you while you're away, you'll need a breather of your own! But promise I'll update you when you get back...are you going anywhere nice?  

I think you're so brave writing out all your tx and tests for your sister...it must have been a relly emotional thing to do. I might actually do it later in the summer just for myself, as I think it will be good therapy!

Does anyone else keep an IF journal? of your thoughts and emotions etc? I find it hard to keep it up to date, but has been really helpful, as there are times you can't always talk about it to people.

Hugs to all, hope everyone else is ok


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## Dydie (Feb 11, 2005)

Hi Ermey

There is so much I want to write and say but to be honest most of it has already been said....but I just wanted you to know that I am still around and I am thinking of you through these tough times.

Try and let yourself be free of feeling guilty .... they are not living your life, so allow yourself to do things when you are ready and not because you feel forced into it.

Enjoy your holiday and let yourself be free ... and if you are still looking for a good excuse to put things off when you return .... remember that travelling to foreign country's like Kenya can pose all sorts of health threats ... so its probably not such a good idea to have contact with a tiny baby as soon as you return, it might be more sensible to let yourself have an incubation period to make sure you have not picked up any foreign bugs !!  

Lots of love to you
Dydie xxx


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## pink panther (May 4, 2005)

Hi Ermey, 
why is it that as soon as people have children they always expect everyone to go to them. Perhaps your cousin and his wife could hire a baysitter and then come to YOURS for a change. At least then you may feel a little stronger by being on your own 'territory'. I'm sorry, but it pisses me off when people with children expect the world to revolve around them, just because we haven't got any doesn't mean that we sit around twiddling our thumbs all day and if they can't bring themselves to make an effort they should of kept their legs crossed in the first place!
Ooops!, sorry to rant, I don't mean this to be reflection of anyone and your cousin sounds like a nice person, it sounds like a great credit to you that he's worried about losing you from his life. 

He and his wife sound very caring but I think that you would be best meeting up either at yours or on neutral territory-and certainly without the children at first, just so you could tentitively explain how you feel so they may try to understand the pain you are going through and that you can't just wade straight in and start cooe-ing at their little ones

Unfortunately, even with the best will-in-the-world, people will never understand the pain and bitterness of childlessness.


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## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

Thank you Dydie and Pink Panther 

I feel better about it today, but I think thats because as of tonight we are away till July 7th, so I at last have some space to not have to pretend to be overjoyed!

You are so right that some neutral ground would be helpful, but I've a feeling they just won't understand it, at least not till we've seen the baby. I feel strongly that we have every right to postpone seeing the baby till we feel stronger, but find it so hard to stay firm about this.

Pink Panther - your little rant really made me laugh! 

Dydie, I hope you are coping ok with SD's new arrival; etc, goodness, what am I orrying about compared with what you're facing. Hugs.


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