# Overfamiliar/normal behavour?!



## littlepoppy86

Hi all 

Our gorgeous sons been placed with us for 2 months. Settled in very quick and is no trouble at all...

I just wondered what a typical 1 year old should be like with strangers? Yesterday seemed a very overfamiliar day...

First at baby sensory he kept climbing on this ladies knee an hugging her an then at the park he put his arms p to a total stranger an she actually picked him up! I tried to laugh about it an get him back but he actually moaned an wanted to stay in her arms!

Is this normal?! He has so any cuddles at home so it's not that I'm not giving him them...

X


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## Arrows

No not a good thing but normal in terms of adoption. He'll be in the  process of bonding with you but he's not attached to you yet so you need to limit anyone else picking him up at all. 
A helpful thing I found was to think of LO as a newborn in terms of attachment (10.5mths on placement). He went to others far too easily at first but sure enough at 10mths into placement he got seriously clingy and was a real pain in the butt and now at 21mths into placement he's in the secure place when he now runs off to place alone at time but clings to us in unfamiliar situations -all normal if you go from newborn attachment age on placement rather than chronological.


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## littlepoppy86

Thanks arrow....

He is clingy at times it was just a random day yesterday! Was so embarrassed :-/ 

He has only been here 2 months so can't expect amazing attachment just yet! X


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## dandlebean

Hi Poppy. Ours were exactly the same! The first time we took them to a playgroup, they kept trying to sit on other people's laps. They're both very clingy when it's just us around and constantly want to be picked up or carried around, yet whenever we go out in public they're off chatting to strangers. It has got better, in that they don't try and sit on anyone and everyone's laps nowadays, but the youngest will still reach to other people to be picked up and both still go too easily to strangers. We've started spending a bit more time in the house with them, or going on quiet walks and stuff, rather than going out to places where there are lots of people.  We also only let their grandparents hold them - and I'm trying to think of ways we could stop that too if we start to feel it's necessary. I never thought it would be an issue stopping people from holding them, but so many people will pick them up without asking!


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## littlepoppy86

Thanx dandle, How old are yours/how long placed?  It's odd because some sessions he won't leave me others he zips off like yesterday an I bet the other mum felt awful :-/  

Must be so confusing for them :-( x


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## dandlebean

My two are 25 months and 14 months at the moment and they've been with us 12 weeks now   

The eldest settled way better than we ever imagined, as he was so attached to his FC and we were afraid he'd really, really miss her and grieve terribly...but it was like he just forgot all about her from day one! He never mentioned her name or cried for her or anything. The youngest, who didn't seem nearly as close to FC and who everybody said could be 'moved tomorrow' all through intros, was inconsolable and cried non-stop for the first fortnight    After that, she settled and was fine, so we thought it would be okay to start taking them to playgroups and stuff after about 6 weeks. 

I didn't know what to do the first time my two went to the strangers. I felt weird snatching them back, as it wasn't the other parents' fault, plus they kept crawling back every time I took them away! At one session the eldest was just sat on a man's knee and the man kept saying he didn't mind and it was fine - he actually seemed quite pleased, so then I felt bad trying to pull him away all the time. The other day, the youngest (14 months now) reached out to a checkout assistant at the self-checkouts at Asda. The man picked her up and when I went to take her back, she didn't want to and cried! I was so embarrassed    

DH's parents live nearby and disregarded all the rules about no hugging and stuff when they first met them, and I sometimes wonder if that may have caused all this. At the first meeting in a cafe, I nipped to the ladies room and came back to see youngest on granddad's knee and DH just watching and letting it happen! In some ways I'd like to stop them seeing everyone but us for a while, but I don't think DH or MIL/FIL would ever agree to that. Still, if things don't improve soonish, I may just have to put my foot down. Having said that, they do love their grandparents and we want them to have a good relationship with them too. It's so tricky to know what's best sometimes. 

I do feel for them. Like you say, they must just be so confused


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## dandlebean

Forgot to say - I started using a sling for the youngest, though whenever I have it on DS wants me to carry him too, so it's easier said than done     Apparently they can be good for attachment though.


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## littlepoppy86

We've a sling an lo loves it! We use it quite a lot.

I'm the same an do wonder whether family picking him up hasn helped. I guess as it's more normal to have him at home visitors get less an less! 

I also wondered whether he saw something familiar in those he went to? Did they look like the foster carers relatives?! X


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## dandlebean

I wondered that too. I know their FC had a lot of friends who came over fairly regularly, and she took them to playgroups, so perhaps they're just people that look familiar? With the eldest, it's nearly always men he goes to, which I thought was odd because FC was a single lady. I wish we could get inside their heads sometimes


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## Wyxie

I think waiting sounds sensible.

Also, don't be afraid to push the nursery for a morning place.  As a LAC your son should get priority.  We did for Wyxling, who we had an AO for at the time, with Bladelet in placement.  We needed a morning place to make it work.  I just explained that I needed some nursery time to get some one to one time for Bladelet who was early into placement and things were pretty tough going.  Wyxling still had a short afternoon nap, while Bladelet normally had a long one.  She wouldn't have got through an afternoon session without getting into a right old state, and I also needed the one to one time I got with her in the afternoons after she'd woken up and before Bladelet got up, if that makes sense.  I explained that to Social Worker and the nursery and they sorted it out for me.  We were given priority for a morning place (normally in our area they're allocated purely based on the age of the child, with the oldest children getting priority for the morning places).  If you know you want him to start in January, it may be worth contacting the nursery now and explaining the situation.  Our nursery also agreed Wyxling could start 2-3 days a week and gradually build it up to 5, although in the end I changed my mind on that one and went straight with 5 mornings a week.  She had been home quite a bit longer at that point though (15-16 months).

All the best,

Wyxie xx


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## Wyxie

Just realised I replied on the wrong thread - whoops!


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## NancyS

I avoided play groups/toddler groups for probably about 6-months as just too chaotic and stressful and I don't think they do much for bonding - and I don't think children get a huge amount out of them, until they are approaching 3 and start to play and interact with other children.  Even now I think most toddler groups are one of the Circles of Hell  

My AS was definitely very friendly to strangers when he first came home - and I think this is partly down to how many adults LAC come into contact with and partly the insecure and confused feelings following the move.  I very strictly funelled all care and gave family/friends very strict instructions - and tried my best to keep a fairly boring and close to home routine for many months.  Most people were fairly understanding once I had bored them for long enough about the importance of doing everything I could to help AS settle and form attachments to US.

Instead of doing toddler groups, why not look into things like swimming, where you have to be close.  I've also heard that Tumble Tots can be good, as child is very dependent on you for what they can do.  And definitely sling - I really wish I had bought one as I carried AS everywhere for the first few months (and still often do now).  Mostly though I had a very boring routine and spent lots and lots of time at home playing with AS.  Luckily he came home at the beginning of spring and we had a lovely summer, so didn't go too crazy at home.  

AS is now just 3 and is quite shy with strangers and will usually bury his head into my shoulder if he meets someone new.  However, he will soon warm up once he feels comfortable and his reactions seem much more normal - and I do think being very strict with other people has helped.


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## littlepoppy86

Good idea about the swimming nancy! 

If we didn't have a few groups to go to I'd be pulling hair out! I hate being indoors an the groups give me a chance to interact with adults. Also if he isn't around children his own age I'd feel I was making him miss out on vital interaction with not attending nurseey. I love watching him play with the other toddlers  

X


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## dandlebean

Swimming's a great idea!  DS loves swimming. We took him very early on in placement but haven't been back yet. I'd forgotten all about it. My two need to go out everyday, as they're both pretty hyperactive and like to be busy, so thanks so much for the reminder   I wanted to go to Tumble Tots too, but my two would be in different groups as DD isn't walking yet, so I don't quite know what to do with the 'spare' one in each session  

We went to toddler groups twice then stopped, as we too found them far too chaotic/stressful (especially with the stranger thing) and didn't see any benefit for our kids, but then they didn't really interact/play with the other toddlers in the larger groups. I can see how it would be good if they did  The only thing we go to now is a very, very small group that my church runs - just my two and then two, sometimes three, other boys DS's age. Both mine prefer this and interact better when there are less people and noise, plus the other parents know not to 'care' for my kids and always direct them back to us. 

DH's parents got us National Trust membership too, so we've started taking the kids to gardens, duck ponds and deer parks. DS always says 'Woof, woof!' when he sees the deer (though we keep telling him they're not dogs) and 'Duck' is DD's first and only word currently   

It's great to hear that things do get better with time!


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## littlepoppy86

Aweww dandle national trust membership is fab! 

I must say I do love just pushing him around an having a good chat with him, or walking the dog with DS in the sling an having a chuckle an a sing song...do you find people look at you gone out talking to a pushchair haha! I said "hey gorgeous" as I took him out the pushchair an a lady walked past an said "oh I thought you where talking to me!" Made me laugh  

We're expecting Los sibling to join us in a fewonths at only a few months  old so that's going to change our dynamics loads, might not get outside as much who knows! 

Dandle do you have a double buggy? I'm debating whether to buy a new double or use our newly brought single an a sling (annoyed because if we need to sell single an buy double it's a waste of money!)


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## NancyS

I did go a bit mad for adult company, but found that I didn't really get this at toddler groups anyway - and hated the half conversations whilst both looking after your shoulders to check that your toddler isn't about to get into Fisher-Price Wars.  

I did lots of going to the park and feeding the ducks - and as AS was having a good 2-hour nap every afternoon, I initially had lots of time for myself (I do miss the long nap time).  I mainly had short visits from family to my house - and AS gradually met the children of close family and friends.  I really don't think they are particularly missing out on any interacton when they are very little, as they don't properly interact with other children - and I think that your bonding should take priority over other areas of development.  When he is more secure with you, he will find it easier to navigate the world of toddler groups/nursery.  

Definitely get out so you're not tearing out your hair, but I would avoid anywhere that they are free to just crawl off and interact with anyone freely.  Do you have other adopters you can meet up with, as they are often much more understanding about not picking up your child?


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## littlepoppy86

It's difficult because he's walking I'd literally have to stop visiting parks in fear he gets over familiar. 

Could try some just us two picnics in large grassy areas so he can wonder off an enjoy hos independance of new found feet maybe?!


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## GERTIE179

LP,

Swing parks, swimming, sing with baby library classes, tot n rhyme - any if these things should be fine but just staying very close & inter-veining if you see him try to go to strangers. It's hard keeping up the intensity & being funny/loud/interesting so they don't look elsewhere but the more he associates you with fun/meeting his needs/ always there the less he should try is the theory. 

Have you heard of Theraplay exercises? They're good 121 things you can do that should promote you in his eyes. 

Make sure you get plenty of R&R yourself when poss as speaking from experience I found it exhausting (and was used to long intense 121 days at work but very different to working with a toddler at that intensity).

If you can find some folks who are up for a buggy walk you might find easier to get some adult company whilst LO goes forward facing but once on his feet I found my LO dud not want to go near the buggy. Whilst he's in the sling it's easier to keep him close & stop others taking him if he tries it. I found meeting relatives at coffee shop much better for a while as whilst I provided him with food etc he was always more interested in me than family (but even then they would try and feed him but by that point he'd clocked to check in and if I said no he was ok with it).

Just remind yourself how good a job your doing & it's hard work but it does get easier with it all & you will see the bond grow. But if your still seeing concerns speak to your SW about Theraplay etc
X x


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## dandlebean

Wow, how exciting having another littley on the way!   It can be tough with two, but twice the rewards too  Is your DS excited? 

We debated for ages over the double buggy thing and we did get one in the end, and I'm very glad we did. Wherever we can, we do DD in sling and DS walking, but there are many times that it's far, far easier to have them both in a buggy! Plus, DS can't walk too far as he's only just turned 2 and he generally wants to be wherever DD is...so if she's in the sling he'll want to be carried and if she's in the buggy, he'll either want to be carried or in it too (he loves being carried at the moment, which I guess is another attachment thing). We got the CitySelect Baby Jogger (or something along those lines), as there are loads of ways you can have the seats and you can take one off altogether to turn it back into a singly when necessary.  I guess another option's a buggy board if your DS would be old enough by then for that? We're wondering whether DS would prefer that now, but he's only just ready for it really, in that he'd know to stand on it and not sit and be able to hold on and not climb off all the time xx


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## dandlebean

NancyS said:


> toddler isn't about to get into Fisher-Price Wars.


Haha, love this


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## wynnster

Hi, 
Like the others have already advised you really 'need' to keep to places where he can concentrate on just your face & voice.  Particularly so if you have another joining your family you will not have your eyes on him 24/7 so I would be building on your attachement as much as you can.  
Both of mine were overfamiliar with strangers in the early months, but keeping them by my side helped a lot and both are securely attached now they're older. 
It is essential to put the work in now.  I have one adopter friend who didn't /doesn't see her child being overfriendly as an issue, he was always talking and engaging to ladies in shops etc and now at almost 4 he wanders off and talks to complete strangers and asks for food, he asked one lady (complete stranger) to take him to the toilet recently   His mum was sitting right there! 
So, I don't mean to say your child will have attachement issues but to answer your original question of if it is normal, i'd say no its not 'normal' but normal for some adopted kids, its our jobs as mummies to teach them.


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## dandlebean

Oh dear, ours ask for food from people all the time - though generally now only people they vaguely know and not complete strangers at least   I guess we definitely need to batten down the hatches. 

Do you think it's still okay for them to see grandparents? I don't know how I'd keep MIL away!


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## wynnster

It depends on what you mean by 'see' the grandparents and how early into placement it is.....

Children need to see you as primary caregivers, seek you out for comfort, be aware when you've left the room etc






My mum found it hard in the beginning, she wanted to be a normal doting nanny immediately, but, my children's needs had to come first. I did not leave my children with anyone, not even for a second (they even came to the loo with me!!) nanny had to be told 'that's a mummy job' lots of times and she found it hard and upsetting, she wanted to treat both of them the same as her other grandchildren (and of course now she does) but their needs were slightly different to a birth child.

DS went straight to my parents, they were too full on too soon, we were new parents, we soon learnt all about that word 'attachment'..... after all, how would he have known the difference between 2 strangers that call themselves 'nanny' & 'granddad' and the man who looks quite fun (complete stranger!)so i'll just hug him just like I had to hug those other new people..... 
All relationships are to be built, the fact that they are little shouldn't be taken for granted.

You don't have to keep people away, but the trick is to keep your children with you, follow them everywhere, have reins on for the park, avoid softplay, go to toddler groups that aren't too overwhelming and that you can interact with your lo. There are lots of things to do with lo's which are great for bond building, swimming as mentioned is great, walking in the woods is usually quieter that the park and can involve lots of 'jump to mummy' activities, even supermarket shopping with them in the trolley is great, chatting to them about what they see, interacting the whole way round.

I've now waffled, but i'm sure you catch my drift


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## dandlebean

Thanks Wynnster - that's really helpful. The childrens' SW told us to leave them alone with grandparents about a month into placement, just for 30 mins or so, which I thought was a bit odd. I hated it and only lasted about 15 minutes before I insisted we went back. When I heard the kids hadn't even missed us, alarm bells did start to ring, though of course MIL/FIL were thrilled! Anyway, I decided not to do it again for a while, not that I said anything to anyone - we just haven't done it.  I don't think I will again for a long time now that I've read your post! 

When we do go to see grandparents now, we're always there, but the kids do go with them into other rooms sometimes, or upstairs to bounce on the beds, and MIL always gives them snacks. I've already spoken to DH about that and we've decided to tell them not to give them any food now. We may insist they get a baby gate so we can all stay in the same room too, or perhaps just meet them out at National Trust places or something. 

It's silly, because I'd feel fine telling my own mum to back off, but I don't feel like I can tell the in-laws and DH doesn't seem to quite realise the seriousness of attachment - though he's starting to come round since I've been able to quote everyone's advice here


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## wynnster

SW's haven't a clue about attachment,    well ours did but dd's thought it wonderful that she could go to anyone   

Go with your gut, if its telling you your inlaws need to back off the go with it, you don't have to be hard on them but explain it to them.  I think their is a BAAF book on attachment for grandparents??  

Maybe bring it up in conversation about the stranger incidents and how you've been advised to try 'funnel parenting'??  

12 weeks is really early days still, you are all still learning about each other - Take care


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## mummy to little pea

Ohhhh no I think I have done some wrong here.  I often take DD round to my parents and she never misses me if i leave the room  
what do i do now, how do i counteract this with out her feeling that someone else has just upped and dissapeared ?  feel anxious now  

any tips on what we can do ?


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## littlepoppy86

Oh Jesus now  I'm terrified.

I honestly feel awful like I've mistreated him and I'm creating a young child that has attacent an stranger issues. 

I love our routine, our life we've created an it involves all the things mentioned above I shouldn't be doing! He loves soft play, loves free play on parks an going to our baby groups where has the freedom to Rome around which he can't do at home without being told stop trying to push the tv over or grab the dogs tail! I'm totally torn between carryin on an being happy but worried about the future or become a recluse/walker an getting myself depressed! 

Oh god :-(


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## mummy2blossom

Hi poppy, 

I can't offer any advice as blossom has been home same length of time (think we did intros at same time?)

I second your fear, I've been reading these posts out of interest & am panicking too!  I've just (last week) left my mum downstairs with blossom whilst I change bedding etc upstairs (no longer than 20 mins) also leave her for quick loo trips. Reading some of the posts have put the fear up me too! Blossom is younger so not really the same situation, I just wanted to  send some   as it's all so overwhelming and I feel like I'm forever questioning our choices! (Even more so now!)


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## littlepoppy86

M2b yes we did! My lo is 12months...

Oh god I did the same an left him inside with a relative he really enjoys playing with whilst I enjoyed 20mins gardening...now I feel like a total selfish cow!


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## mummy to little pea

little poppy this is how i feel now and scared poopless 



littlepoppy86 said:


> Oh Jesus now I'm terrified.
> 
> I honestly feel awful like I've mistreated him and I'm creating a young child that has attacent an stranger issues.
> 
> I love our routine, our life we've created an it involves all the things mentioned above I shouldn't be doing! He loves soft play, loves free play on parks an going to our baby groups where has the freedom to Rome around which he can't do at home without being told stop trying to push the tv over or grab the dogs tail! I'm totally torn between carryin on an being happy but worried about the future or become a recluse/walker an getting myself depressed!
> 
> Oh god :-(


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## littlepoppy86

I thnk the problem is we've been told an taught during home studies etc to analyse an re analyse so now I'm just digging deep...


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## NancyS

littlepoppy86 said:


> Oh Jesus now I'm terrified.
> 
> I honestly feel awful like I've mistreated him and I'm creating a young child that has attacent an stranger issues.
> 
> I love our routine, our life we've created an it involves all the things mentioned above I shouldn't be doing! He loves soft play, loves free play on parks an going to our baby groups where has the freedom to Rome around which he can't do at home without being told stop trying to push the tv over or grab the dogs tail! I'm totally torn between carryin on an being happy but worried about the future or become a recluse/walker an getting myself depressed!
> 
> Oh god :-(


I wouldn't worry too much and it definitely doesn't sound like you've mistreated him - and as he is little, you definitely have lots of time to work on attachment.

I think what some of us are trying to say is that many adopted children have different needs and that you need to parent in a slightly different way - and at first it might not be best to do the same as everyone you know with non-adopted children. You don't need to stay in all the time, or be a recluse and have no adult company - just take things slowly and choose activities that encourage bonding and allow you to keep close. As he settles and your attachment develops, hopefully you'll be in a better and more secure position to live as freely as you want.

I left my AS with my parents in another room for about 30 mins, whilst we had his adoption review - this was fairly early on and on the advice of my social worker. I felt quite uncomfortable with it at the time and slowed things down after this and left it longer before introducing to anyone else.


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## wynnster

Sorry ladies, sounds like I've scared a few of you.....

As their parents, you know your children best, the original poster was asking if the behaviour 'her' child was showing was normal and I was answering that.  

It is not forever, just until you are sure your child is securely attached to you.  Yes it is hard work, yes it is draining, yes you feel like screaming 'give me 5 minutes' sometimes, but for me and my children, it was worth it.

I have seen attachment problems in older children, 5 year olds asking a stranger to play trains, 3 year old 'can I have a cuddle'   etc etc, both children adopted from 18months, not just the stranger incidents but also their behaviour, being unable to cope in social situations, their parents unable to calm them.  Who knows whether 'funnelling' would have helped them?  Maybe it wouldn't have made any difference, but maybe, just maybe it would have...................


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## littlepoppy86

Just wanted to pop an update on my sons over familiarity...

So he's been home over 4 months, overfamiliar it has either stopped or I've stopped being over precious about it...he is now clingy when visitors arrive & at pre mentioned group he still wonders round saying hi to all but runs back to me almost winding me when he returns!! 

Thank you all for your help, I feel now he's really settled but I'm sure in 4 more months he'll be even more settled!!! X


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