# Don´t know what to do



## nikkitay (Mar 17, 2012)

Hello every one, I could do with some help and advice please.

I´ve just had my third failed ivf/icsi cycle and I am feeling very low.
The doctors don't know whats wrong with me other than I produce bad eggs and bad embryos but they don´t know why. I am a good responder and before we started our first cycle 1 year ago I was told by my clinic that all the tests have come back really good and that I have a high ovarian reserve, but three cycles later and not even a hint of a bfp. I have one frosty so my clinic want to try FET before they look at doing any more tests.
I´ve got a feeling that my frosty won´t survive the thaw.

Ive always felt low after each cycle but this time i´m worse, i´m so scared that I will never have children.

If there is anyone who has gone through something similar and can give me some advice I would like to hear from you.


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## muusa (Mar 28, 2012)

Dear Nikkitay,

I cannot give you any advice but I notice that you have a high percentage of immature eggs and that is what I've had, too. It was exactly the same for me in the beginning, all my tests came back perfect but after 5 cycles, I only ever got one embryo to transfer (out of 70+ eggs!). You can read the thread I had written at that time about immature eggs, you might want to ask your doctor whether the "egg maturation arrest" is something you might be having, too. I hope of course that you will find a solution to your problem, in which case I'd be really grateful if you could inform me, too! 
By the way, how long were you stimmed for?

I myself have decided to move on to donor eggs though, so there is always that possibility, too.
Good luck!


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## nikkitay (Mar 17, 2012)

Hi muusa

Yes I do have alot of immature eggs and my clinic can´t seem to find the reason. I had a kayrotype test done to look at my chromosomes because they thought that a translocation or deletion of part of a chromosome could be the cause , but that came back fine.

As for the stimms, the 1st was 8 days of puregon the 2nd 6 days and the 3rd 9 days, on the 3rd they let me stimm an extra day in the hope of getting more mature eggs.


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## Dollynrosie (Dec 7, 2012)

Hi nikkitay

I cant really offer any advice other than what I was told to do at my clinic to improve the egg quality, Im not sure if its standard throughout all clinics though so you may already be doing this.

Basically to improve egg quality I was told to go on a high protein/low carb diet, not Atkins style though, just making sure that you eat a large portion of protein, with a small portion of carbs, in the style of wholegrains rather than refined.  Also to eat 3 times a day only to balance your blood sugar levels, no picking inbetween or eating sweet naughty treats, because then that will throw your blood sugar levels out.  Include in your main meals some nuts, like brazil nuts or pumpkin seeds as these are good sources of protein.  I was also told to drink 2 litres of water a day which i think is also to ward of OHSS.  Was also told to drink a litre of milk a day, because this is an easy way to get protein.  I have to say i didnt do very well at that because I hate milk and they told me i couldnt mix it with anything like nesquick because of the added sugar.  I just increased the amount of nuts and meat.

I also read that hot water bottles before Egg Collection (Not after transfer though) are meant to be good to help mature the eggies....

My cycle failed but the embryo quality was very good and all made it to Blastocyst, which i really wasnt expecting.  Also, I stopped all caffeine for a few months before because it messed up my estradiol levels, well I dont have hard evidence it was that but they were extremely high, i did some research, cut the caffeine out and the levels went down by half in about 6-8 weeks...

I know its easier said than done, but try to stay positive, because it may just be that little frostie thats the little fighter and sticks his fingers up to the consultant that says hes poor quality!

 xxxx


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## Dollynrosie (Dec 7, 2012)

Just another quick thing, you say you bled before your test, I did also and so have quite a few others it seems.  A few of us have been discussing the fact we think this is down to low progesterone (the topic is Low Progesterone).  Some consultants seem to acknowledge this whilst others wont really look into it.  Maybe you could also ask about this next time.  

Also, its like one of the nurses said to me, you can have a perfect embryo that by all accounts should make it to a BFP  and fails and you can have a poor quality embryo that ends up being a perfectly happy bouncing baby.....xxxx


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## nikkitay (Mar 17, 2012)

Hi dollynrosie.

Thanks for the tips to improve egg quality, my clinic don´t seem to think that you can do anything to improve egg quality and haven´t told me to do anything different. I also asked them at the beginning of my second cycle about the progesterone and they said that I was taking 800mg of progesterone a day and that was more than enough.
Ive got an appointment at another clinic to see what they think, so maybe I will change clinics.
I tried taking royal jelly and co q10 on my previous cycle but I didn´t start them early enough so didn´t see any difference, when I told my clinic about it they said that there is no evidence that they work.


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## muusa (Mar 28, 2012)

Nikkitay - you seem to have been stimmed for quite a short time, were the doses high, too? Lengthening the stimming period might help, 6 days seems really very short.


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## Ellie.st (Mar 11, 2005)

Dear Nikkitay
I am really sorry about your BFN and that you are feeling so low.     

I personally think it is worth trying to do things to improve your egg quality regardless of what your clinic says.  I followed a regime similar to Dollynrosie and my egg quality and fertilisation rates did improve - it might have been coincidence but still worth trying in my opinion.  I would recommend having a look at Zita West's book "Fertility and Conception" for suggestions re supplements and diet.  I would also recommend getting the opinion of another clinic re low progesterone and generally anything they might do differently from your existing clinic.

PS: please don't write off your frosty.  I had three frosties which technically didn't even survive the thaw, but one of them is now snoring away in his cot along the hall from me.   

Good luck

Ellie


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## NicL (Nov 11, 2011)

hi there

sorry to hear about your bfn. Its such a hard journey this and all of us on this rollecoaster have felt that overwhelming fear that we will never get that bfp (for me - i got it first time but miscarried at 8+5).  One thing i would say is you should take some strength from the fact that you had and embryo that was good enough to freeze as they will only freeze good embies. 

Also you talk a lot about your egg quality but not mentioned sperm quality. Take it you have had tests done above the basic semen analysis (dna fragmentation etc). Saw a thread on here somewhere (sorry cant remember who or where!) from someone in similar position - consultants kept saying poor egg quality but eventually turned out to be a sperm issue. 

Defo worth getting your OH on supplements too if your not already. 

good luck xxx


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## nikkitay (Mar 17, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your support and advice, its really helped.

I seemed to respond very quickly to the stimm drug and I think my clinic were worried about ohss, the drug I was on was puregon 150 daily injections, the clinic said that they might change the drug next time but they never seemed concerned about the speed of the stim, maybe cause I'm quite young.
The sperm quality is another issue as it is from a testicular biopsy because my husband had a vasectomy many years ago and 2 failed reversals ops, the sperm from a biopsy is never as good as fresh because they have to take it from a different area where it is not fully developed, that is why we have to have icsi.
Its ironic really, after finding out that his vasectomy reversals hadn't worked we were told that our only option is ivf, so I had all the tests done which came back perfect and on the first cycle I responded really well to all the drugs the clinic were really hopeful it would work, until egg collection when there was such a high number of immature eggs that alarm bells began to ring.
they think that there might be a bit of a connection with my mum who has had a very early menopause but she had no problem conceiving me or my brother. as I have never had the opportunity to try to get pregnant naturally I don`t know if it is possible or not.

Congratulations to you Elli I'm  so happy that it worked for you against the odds.


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