# Help, am I coming to the end of my ifv journey....need advise on what to do next



## lisaloo123 (Jan 29, 2012)

Hello Ladies!

I've been through the IFV mill in the last couple of years and have managed to stay positive and always look forward when I've hit my many setbacks (as we all do), but I'm on my 9th treatment cycle and test on Monday, I had a disappointing egg collection as my big follicle didn't have an egg but they got a small (16) one out which made it through icsi and got back in me, I've been really optimistic all the way through the 2ww as I was shocked to be in it on this cycle, but it will be a complete miracle if I get a positive (testing negative at the mo on extra sensitive home tests and I know they are not that reliable but lets be honest it doesn't look good for me).

So, here I am, now 41, considerably poorer, still single (impossible to date and do ifv) and fat from pumping myself full of hormones for the last 20 months! 

My clinic are likely to tell me that it's donor eggs or give up, I'm sure I can talk them into continuing for another cycle or maybe two but I know the writings on the wall with them now....So what do I do as I'm not ready to give up on my own eggs yet, I've heard of success with DHEA but have no idea where to start with it and am a little lost on all of the supplements that are out there.

Do any of you girls know of the best supplement route for an old girl getting to the end of her road.....

Many thanks,
LisaLoo! xxx


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## celadon44 (Feb 23, 2012)

Hi Lisaloo,

I didn't want to read and run.  I don't know very much about supplements, but I was taking DHEA when I had my last cycle (at 44).  I believe it helps the quality of our eggs, not the quantity and I believe it helped me.  I wondered if you had considered using another clinic, if you have not had success with the clinic you are using now?  At 41, I believe you still have a good chance of a baby with your own eggs and maybe a different clinic could alter your protocol so it would suit your body better?

Hopefully someone else will come along and give you some good advice about supplements.  Good luck


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## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

sorry i am not sure what to suggest but i remember being panic stricken at 41, and now i'm 42 and pregnant, own eggs, my first cycle the egg/embie quality was poor but it was much better on the second cycle, what i think is, miracles CAN happen!       . so if it is a miracle you need, i hope one arrives soon! if you're not ready to give up then don't! x


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## Emm11 (May 19, 2012)

Im a newbie here - 48 and going through egg donor for many years - its so tiring isnt it. You  must be wring out by now. I've started acupuncture with a practitioner who has been highly recommended. So yet to be proved if it works but she apparently has had a lot of success and has been recommended to me by my sonographer. The way i feel, anything that gives you hope and keeps you positive is all good. Really hope things work out for you....xx

BTW, I didnt like the thought of going the donor egg route but after several fails, I'd be delighted if it works at this stage. Depends on where you are in your journey I guess. What scared me years ago would now make me very happy!!!


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## Maisyz (Dec 15, 2010)

Oh Lisa, sorry it hasn't worked. In my opinion doctors are far to keen to bully women into donor eggs which is a route you shouldn't be forced down if you don't want too. I've flatly refused egg donors and always will and the clinic know never to ever mention the word again. There are always alternatives like adoption to consider as well remember. Take some time and decide what's right for you.

Maisy


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## lisaloo123 (Jan 29, 2012)

Hi Ladies,

Thanks for your kind words, as expected I had my negative comfirmed today and have a follow up appointment on wed to discuss whats next for me.  I'm going to push for continuing with my own eggs for at least 1-3 more cycle and have decided to take dhea and Chinese herbs (if I'm not allergic to them!) I also found a list of supplements that is recommended but can't upload it on here so will post it after this one.  I may look into a second opinion too, but can't see I'll be told anything different anywhere else, and I've been through 6 different doctors at create too so think I've been examined by enough and if any of them had any new ideas I think I'd have heard them by now....I may opt for treatment abroad now though as it does seem so much cheaper!

I wish you all the best of luck on your journeys and I pray that we will all achieve the families we want so badly.

Lots of love to you all.
Lisa xxx


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## lisaloo123 (Jan 29, 2012)

List of Supplements as Recommended on FF and internet, I'm by no means an expert and consult RE before taking any of them (and some of them seem a bit extreme!) but this is what I've found....

For Women, these are the most important ones, on a daily basis, take:

Zinc 15 mg. 
Take prior to conception and throughout pregnancy. Critical to the rapid development of the egg within the follicle especially with IVF where many eggs are developing at the same time. Helps prevent miscarriages.

Vitamin C: 500mg - 750mg.
Take prior to conception and throughout pregnancy. Corrects luteal-phase-defect as it boosts progesterone and oestrogen levels. Improves pregnancy rates and helps prevents miscarriages. Too much Vitamin C can dry up cervical mucous

Vitamin E: 200 IUIs. 
Take prior to conception. Improves egg quality

Vitamin D : Between 1500 IUIs - 2000 IUIs .
Take prior to conception and throughout pregnancy. Ideal level for improved fertility is between 50 - 80 ng/ml of Vitamin D in your blood. Vitamin D3 is best form of the vitamin. Ensure that you also have taken Vitamin A and K to balance the Vitamin D. Improves fertility. Not more than 4000 IUIs per day. Very high levels (240000 IUIs) shown to reduce fertility. Problems arise when you have too much vitamin D and too little vitamins A and K

Vitamin B6: 10mg per day. 
Take with other B vitamins to help with the absorption - especially B12. Can increase to 50mg when short term booster is needed. Take prior to conception and throughout pregnancy. Zinc helps absorption. Lengthens luteal phase and helps produce progesterone. The set tolerable upper limit is 100mgs per day. Higher doses can cause nerve ending damage. B6 can disguise a B12 deficiency/anaemia, so increase your B12 if taking higher doses of B6. Higher levels of B12 (than the RDA) are safe to take. Do not take more than 100mgs unless prescribed by a doctor. Higher doses should only be taken for a short term period

Vitamin B complex - take a multivitamin with around the RDA of each in it. 
Take prior to conception and throughout pregnancy. Balances out hormones and encourages pregnancy. Listed here are the RDAs for females:
Vitamin B1 (thiamine) 1.1mg
Vitamin B2 (riboflavin) 1.1mg
Vitamin B3 (niacin or niacinamide) 14mg
Vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid) 5mg
Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine, pyridoxal, or pyridoxamine, or pyridoxine hydrochloride) 1.3mg
Vitamin B7 (biotin) 30mcg
Vitamin B9 (folic acid) 400mcg
Vitamin B12 (various cobalamins; commonly cyanocobalamin in vitamin supplements) 2.4mcg

Vitamin A: 700IUIs - 900IUIs. 
Take prior to conception and throughout pregnancy. Promotes better cervical fluid. Assists the follicles in maturing properly. Contains important antioxidants. Important for DNA replication. Do not exceed this dose (so if included in a multivitamin, do not take extra). Avoid the synthetic version of vitamin A - high levels (10,000 IUs + a day) have been shown to increase the chances of birth defects

Selenium: 100ug twice a day = total 200ug. 
Take prior to conception and throughout pregnancy. Promotes implantation, prevents miscarriage. Don't exceed dose as can be toxic

Myo-Inositol 2g twice a day = total 4g (2000mg) per day. 
Taken from three months prior to conception. Helps restore fertility in woman with PCOS. Improves egg quality. https://sites.google.com/site/miscarriageresearch/supplements-and-miscarriage/d-chiro-inositol

Melatonin: 3mg per day taken at night. 
Take for 1-3 months prior to conception. Improves egg quality by reducing the level of an oxidizing agent called 8-OHdG. Don't take long term.

L'Arginine: 500mg - 2000mg per day (i.e. 0.5g - 2g). 
Take for 1-3 months prior to conception. Improves egg quality and uterine blood flow.

DHEA: 25mg three times per day = total 75mg.
Start on lower doses and build up. Start taking at least 3 months prior to conception (I found 6 months better). Stop at pregnancy (or EC in IVF). Improves egg quality. Usually for older ladies (40yrs+) with diminished ovarian reserves

Iron: 14mg. 
Take prior to conception and throughout pregnancy. Take with Vitamin C. Tannin inhibits the absorption, so don't take with drinks that contain tannin e.g. green tea. A deficiency can reduce fertility by 50%

Folic acid (= Vitamin B9): 400 micrograms (0.4 milligrams) twice a day = total 800ug. 
Take prior to conception and throughout pregnancy. Tannin inhibits the absorption, so don't take with drinks that contain tannin e.g. green tea. Folic acid, sometimes called folate, is a B vitamin (B9) found mostly in leafy green vegetables like kale and spinach, orange juice, and enriched grains. Taken prior to conception and during early pregnancy reduces the risk of a serious neural tube defect in the baby by up to 70%. May increase pregnancy rates and prevent miscarriages. Can take up to 4000 micrograms per day prescribed if family history of neural defects

Fish oil (Omega Oil/essential fatty acids): 1g - 5g per day (i.e. about 200mg - 1000mg). 
Take prior to conception and throughout pregnancy. Can take some flax seed and some fish oil tablets. Anti-inflammatory. Improves blood flow to uterus. Reduction of NK cell activity (take 5g dosage for this). Use body only fish oil as liver may contain mercury (i.e. not cod liver oil). Also Cod liver oil has too much vitamin A in it, so avoid. Be careful not to take too much if on blood thinners.

Evening Primrose Oil: 1000mg per day for first 14 days of cycle. Stop taking at ovulation up until next menstruation. 
Stop at pregnancy. Increases quality and quantity of cervical mucus. Anti-inflammatory reduces narrowing of blood vessels & promotes blood flow. Can bring on uterine contractions and thus the start of your menstrual cycle

Co Q10/ Co Enzyme Q10: 200mg - 600mg. 
Take prior to conception and throughout pregnancy - but scale down to maximum 200mg dose on falling pregnant. (Costco has best price). Improving egg quality because of its powerful effect on regenerating the mitochondria - the tiny energy factories of each cell - known to be a factor in age-related infertility. Reduces the risk of pre eclampsia.

Aspirin: 75mg.
Take prior to conception and throughout pregnancy but stop at least 24 hours before giving birth (need the clotting factor). Anti-inflammatory. Stops minute blood clots forming in the uterus (which could starve embryo of oxygen).

Manganese - take RDA, as part of a multivitamin
Deficiency may lead to defective ovulation. Take with Vitamin C (but note - it competes with iron for absorption)

Magnesium- take RDA, as part of a multivitamin
Needed to help the pituitary and ovaries produce the high levels of oestrogen and progesterone needed to secure pregnancy until placenta takes over.

Other supplements which could be taken:
Wheatgrass - Whatever the dosage is on the tin
Full of antioxidants. Mostly anecdotal evidence as to the effect on fertility.

N-Acetyl Cysteine: 1.2g per day. 
For woman with PCOS

D-Chiro-Inositol: 600mg
Take from 2 months prior to conception. For woman with PCOS - restores ovulation and helps with other aspects of the syndrome

Alpha-Lipolic Acid: 600mg twice a day = 1200mg total 
For woman with PCOS

Bee Propolis: 500mg 
Extremely anti-inflammatory therefore excellent for endometriosis sufferers

Royal Jelly: 500mg three times a day = 1500mg 
Improves egg quality although mostly anecdotal evidence

Cough medicine: Two teaspoons (200mg) three times per day, taken orally. Five days before and day of ovulation (6 days total)Guaifenesin must be the only active ingredient e.g. Robitussin, Mucinex brand. Loosens the cervical mucus helping sperm on their journey. Counteracts negative Clomid effects outlined here. Clomid associated with less cervical fluid, thinner uterine lining and development of hostile mucus. If taking Clomid, wait until day after last Clomid pill.

Vitex Agnus Castus (Chaste berry): 35mg Other suggest 400mg - 800mg twice daily = 800mg-1600mg total
Capsule or liquid form (tincture). Take for first 14 days of cycle in morning and evening. Normalises your menstruation cycle. Restarts periods which have stopped. Lengthens luteal phase defects. Lowers high prolactin levels. If you have a regular cycle do not take as it may mess up the cycle. Don't take with Clomid - or any drug like Clomid - they counter act each other. Could take several months to work.

Human growth hormone: 4mg per day
From day 21 of previous cycle to day of pregnancy test. May help poor responders improve. Varying success has been reported. Given as part of IVF protocol - so prescribed and monitored is advised

/links


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## mfmcmoo (Jul 16, 2010)

Hi Lisaloo123
I put the list together - and can, from personal experience (2X now) say that it worked for me 100% (or was that 200%!!!). What I would say, is - I only took the first part of the list (and will update it to make it more clear), except for also adding chaste berry in from the second section (things you could take). I also varied the doses of things a little every now and then, all except for DHEA which I took 75 mg daily. I know the list looks long and sometimes I felt I was eating a meal of supplements - but I really really believe it works. And at the end are links of where I sourced them from. I have my early scan on Wednesday - and am very nervous, and still amazed that it worked so quickly this time. You could also try what I was going to do and that was take supplements for 3 - 6 months or so, then do mild stimms, rather than full IVF. 
My AMH is undetectable, but they did see 4 follicles when he did an internal scan. I have my first scan on Wednesday to see if it is even a viable pregnancy - but regardless of which way it turns out - I know now that it is possible. 
When I was also told that it was highly unlikely that I would conceive (and that was last pregnancy never mind this one) I remember thinking - well, if you want different results, you have to try different things and so I went on a mission to research things. 
At the end is are some links of where I bought stuff from. Don't delay - fertility levels do plummet after 40.
Sending so much good luck and baby dust your way
Regards
Moo


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