# Topic Natural IVF (ie no drugs) Part 5



## Rachel (Mar 10, 2004)

New home  

Lots of love and luck to you all


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

I am first - can I have some bubbles, pls.


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## Rachel (Mar 10, 2004)

Hi Inconceivable

For being cheeky I have blown you some bubbles!   Left you on a 7 still though  

Have a good day 

Rachel


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

Hello All,

My appointment is tomorrow (I rang and confirmed). i am getting nervous now as the thought of going through any kind of ivf again fills me with dread.

Hows it going with you dixie?

em x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Emma - will be checking the thread for your feedback.  I think I am  in a similar situation to yours so looking forward to hear what Geeta will say.  

Pls update us.  the best of luck for tomorrow.  It's always a risk 'hope vs heartbreak', so hope Geeta has some good news for us all.  

I certainly wish I had known of her before.


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Emma,
I know what you mean about the dread, but I think it's the wait that is the worst part, once you are on the roller coaster it will change to excitement. Lots of luck!
Love Prija


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Can I have my bubbles ending in 7 pls.  I need the luck.... ta


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Inconceivable,
I have blown you some more ending on a seven for luck!
Emma, I've blown you some ending on a seven too!
Love Prija


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Fingers crossed for you Emma, make sure you report back!


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Thx Prija  - need all the bubbles I can get... and loads of luck and magic making and frankly a miracle...
Hello ladies... 

Good luck Emma .,.. Pls report back....

Am a bit apprehensive of Geeta's straight talking as have been given donor speech already and with my crap response so far....  It's a hope vs hearbreak dilemma....  I am still doing the vits and all so a part of me is hopeful although I know that I haven't got great chances realistically.  Don't know how my sis managed to get pregger when she was 44...naturally.  She as it happened did not keep the baby.... Always happens to the wrong people at a wrong time.... !!!


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

Hello all,

Been a bit slow to report back as have been feeling a bit negative about the whole thing and dont want to put a downer on our happy little board!

I went to Create in Wimbledon on tuesday, i was in a foul mood before i went, i also was feeling pretty low about starting ivf again. A bit stuck in the "why me, its not fair" phase. instead of just getting on with it.

We had to wait 2 hours to see mrs nargund, we had a short ish consultation. the outcome of which is that i am booked in for a scan next week. she said my chances were 10% and kind of gently pushed me towards mild ivf. She says that old ovaries dont need down regulating and that it is much harder for them to produce eggs after being down regged. mild ivf involves no down regging and just a mild dose of drugs to tickle your ovaries into action rather than booting them. That kind of makes sense to me.

when she does the scan she will look to see how many follicles i have lying around and if she sees hardly any she wont recemmend mild ivf, only a natural cycle and even then only suggest one run to see how it goes.

The clinic was fine i guess, very different to the lister which is a big bustling hospital, its very intimate and i can find that a bit unnerving. Mrs Nargund was nice. ypu have to sign a form sayong you are happy to not alawys be seen by her. 

To be honest I am in two minds about what to do, No one has got answers. I reckon its 40% luck and 45% magic and 5% medical know how that makes it work and the best specialist in the world knows that in their heart.

10% is not great odds and we are not rich.....

I am just going to focus on the next step which is the scan and see what that brings up. i dont think i have ever had a follicle count (ouside of a cycle of ivf) before so i will be interested to see those results.

catch up soon

em xxx

p.s. thanks so much for the bubbles


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Emma,
I am sorry you are feeling a bit down. You know my husband and I don't believe in statistics, we believe it either works or it doesn't work. I will tell Mrs N that because we have already been told we will have a lower success rate due to the nature of our infertility. The issue is that we personally have no chance at all of conceiving naturally so even a 5 per cent chance is worth a try. Try to focus on that 10 per cent chance because it can work. I hope I make sense in what I am saying. You never know you may get a big surprise at your scan and at the end of the day, many people on these boards are proof of the saying that "it only takes one egg!".
Lots of love,
Prija


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Gosh Emm - waiting for 2 hrs is a bit over the top.  My dh wouldn't be able to wait that long cause of work....

I know what you are saying.  Dreading my app a bit, too.  And am on a rollercoaster of emotion myself... Fingers crossed for your scan.  

Did she say why she would only suggest one go?  How much does one go cost?  My understanding is that with natural cycles you can do it every month and that it costs around the same as medicated IUI??


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

I had my appt at Harley St and was pretty pleased how it went.  She concurred that soft stim was the way to go as I've stage 4 endo and doing the high stim approach would feed it oestrogen and send it wild.  I hadn't considered that, so it's another reason to 'go soft'.  We made it plain that we want to see how the land lies before commiting to a tx, so I'm having a scan and bloods done next week, and Rich will be doing his sperm test.  Then we see were we go from there.

Both Lee and Phillipa were very nice in person, Geeta was great, I liked her direct style.  Having had a rotten time with Mr Stern at The Princess Royal, I am so relieved.  I hadn't realised what a source of tension that was.  I'm feeling very comfortable with the clinic.  Having read poor Emma's post I'm kind of glad I'm going to Harley St and not Wimbledon.  I sent you some bubbles kiddo


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Julianne,
I'm glad things seem to have gone ok for you. When you book an appointment do you choose where you want to go? As I will be travelling from the North I assume Harley Street will be my best bet. Good luck with the next steps. Keep in touch.
Love Prija


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

For the girls who have had their appointments:

Do they do the scans prior to treatmetn and did they want to see Hep B, C and HIV test for consultation.  

Julianne - have u had any previous ivfs?  What percentage chance did Geeta mention in your meeting....


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi girls

Posted earlier but not sure where it has gone.

Anyway had my second scan today (CD 5) and Geeta said that my follicles were still small (10mm) although pretty normal for this stage of the cycle. I am going back on Monday for another scan (with Professor Campbell) and then they will decide what to do next. Geeta still said that I may not need to take the Gonal F and other medication depending on how things go in the next scan.


Inconceivable:
Geeta told us at our initial consultation that we needed the Hep B, Hep C and HIV test before treatment began ....however I would double check with her if you are unable to get the test results back in time (Create can do the test for you and DH and get the results back to you the next day for £250!! - but it is free with your GP so if you have time get it done there). 

We had our initial consultation and we told her immediately that we wanted to try natural IVF. She booked me in for an initial scan on CD 25 of my last cycle. I think this is just to check that everything is okay so we could proceed with the treatment.

Anyway lots and lots of luck to all.....

Dixie xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Thx Dixie


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

_Do they do the scans prior to treatmetn and did they want to see Hep B, C and HIV test for consultation.

Julianne - have u had any previous ivfs? What percentage chance did Geeta mention in your meeting...._

Yup they scan you first - because we haven't done IVF before it's all a bit investigative. I have no idea what my hormone levels are like for instance. They reckon they make a guess at your egg reserve from those measurements. I guess she'll also want to have a good look around at the uterus and the tubes before making any kind of 'chances' guestimate. As we have double factor I think our chances are low to be honest, but I still think that low stim is the way to go. To my mind it's even-ing up the playing field a bit!

I'm doing my bloods with my doc on Monday, they'll do the hormone levels + HIV stuff. In the afternoon I'm back at Create for the scan - and I haven't dared ask how much that will be!! I presume there will be a follow up consultation when they've got all the results back and you get advised of the situation and what your choices are then.


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

Hiya all,

yep my scan is prior to tratment (£150) and its this friday. she is goping to look at my ovaries and see how many little follicles there are.

i will know after that what treatment she recommends.

I'm sure someone else on this thread has got an apointment today.

I already have my blood tests (hep b etc) and i had them done in march so geeta says i can use those as they are less than a year old.

Lots of luck everyone.

i will be in touch soon.

em x


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi all

Had my third scan today on CD 9. I had Professor Campbell today. He is a very nice man and explained what he was seeing on the scan. He said my right side ovary was good with a follicle which was 15mm so should be okay for egg collection. However I heard him mention to the nurse that my lining was a "cloudy" triple layer. If anybody knows what this means then please let me know.

Then after the scan he said to me that the follicles look fine but the endometrium was "slightly lagging behind". He went into his office to discuss this with Geeta and then came back and told me that she was happy to continue with the natural cycle. They then sent me for a blood test to check E2 and LH levels. The nurse (Lee) is going to call me this afternoon to discuss what was found in the scan and blood test and the treatment plan so I will ask her more about the triple layer.

Geeta seems happy for me to have no drugs at all but the Professor said Lee will discuss this further with me this afternoon.

I am pretty hopeful but am a bit disappointed because I have symptoms of the flu ...so I am lying in bed covered in Vicks hoping this will not interfere in the IVF!!!!

Good luck to those of you with appointments this week 
Dixie xxx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Dixie - triple layer is good. Don't know about the cloudy bit...

So, you are receiving no drugs?  It's just the one follicle that we all produce monthly.  Do keep us informed. 

I am apprehensive of Geeta's app, must say... Dh said that he hasn't got much hope, which is not exactly encouraging...


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## PaulaB (Jun 22, 2007)

Hi everyone,
Would you mind if i lurk here a while. Have been reading about natural IVF and wondering if it could be worth a try as finances are tight and frankly dont know if i can face another round of ivf. I wondered if anyone is using donor sperm and is this an ooption at this clinic. Are there two clinics as i read someone was in wimbledon and someone else mentioned harley street. Does geeta work in both. Did you get info about all of this from the internet or is there a number i could call to get price list and info on donor sperm use. God i hope this works for you all. How wonderful would it be if there was another way to make ivf work without all the drugs. P xxxx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Paula, this is their website:-

http://www.createhealth.org/index.html

They have two clinics - Harley St and Wimbledon. To my knowledge Geeta works in both and the prices are the same for both. So far I'm very happy with them (other than an initial hitch with appointments, which does appear to be a weak point) and have found them all very pleasant and professional.

Geeta is lovely, have no fear of meeting with her Inconceivable. If there is something she can do for you then she'll tell you. I found her comforting actually, I like to know where I am - even if it's bad news.

I had my scan today and it all looks good. I have 10 discernable follies in each ovary, and they look good and healthy. Prof Campbell said that I'm doing well for my age - fertilitywise which was a relief. He did say that one of my ovaries had a PCOS look about it, which I don't know anything about so I'll have to go and research. I hope that doesn't affect fertility, the last thing I wanted was another incurable syndrome to throw in the mix!!

/links


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

How old you Julianne if I may ask.  Was that an antral follicle count that they did?  10 in each sounds v. good even in a stimulated cycle...


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Everyone,
Dixie, I hope you have had your call and that all is well. Keep in touch to let us know how things are going! The nurse Lee who you mentioned, you don't know her surname do you? There was a lovely nurse called Lee who saw me right through my first ICSI and Fet in 2003, but she left the clinic and I wondered where she had gone, it would be great if it was her. The name Oliphont (not sure of spelling) rings a bell. She had strawberry blond / reddish hair. Anyway, I hope your flu symptoms 
ease before egg collection.
Julianne, all sounds well, so will you start treatment soon?
Emma, all the best for Friday!
Inconceivable, when is your appointment?
Hi Paula, I am going to have a consultation with Geeta early next year.
Love to all!
Prija


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

on thurasday


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

Good luck incon,

i will be interested in your thoughts (you harley street?)

em x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Harley St...Am apprehensive. DH has given up, methinks and we seem to be doing it to exhaust all the options... If Geeta somehow managed a miracle I would be the happiest woman in the world...


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Inconceivable,
Hope Thursday's appointment goes well. In 2003 after my failed ICSI, I was in giving up mode and then I enrolled in some meditation classes. They obviously helped! I'm about to google some locally as I read a great article in today's paper about how they really do de-stress you, only 10 minutes a day! Maybe you could try and persuade DH. Try to be positive and I wish you the very best!
Love Prija 

I meant to say that they give you something else to focus on when you are having bad or negative thoughts. Hope you get my point!


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

yep, i think my ivf hynotherapy cd really helped me chill last cycle. will def use it again, if i go again.

em x


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Ooops, sorry Minxy!  Didn't realise I shouldn't link.

Inconceivable, I'm 38 in Jan.  We're not on a cycle yet, this is a pre-planning exercise!  I don't know how normal it is to have that many follies bubbling away before any treatment, but Prof Campbell seemed pleased at any rate.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Julianne - it shows that you have v. good fertility for your age, indeed.  A good no of antral follicles. Very good prospects and I think Create will save you a lot of money as you can easily succeed.


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

julianne said:


> Ooops, sorry Minxy! Didn't realise I shouldn't link.


 You can include links in posts but that's why we add a disclaimer, because FF is not held responsible for the content  If you have a look, all over the boards, any posts that have links included have disclaimers added.


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi girls

Just to update....there was a change of plan and I was called in yesterday for another scan (CD10). On my right ovary one follicle had reached about 16mm...but my endometrium lining was still "lagging behind" at 6.9mm. I am now scoffing down brazil nuts and drinking pineapple juice to try and thicken up my lining (wish I had started earlier). I think Geeta was worried that I might ovulate early because the results of my blood test on tuesday showed high levels of oestrogen so she decided that I should have a shot of Pregnyl (5000) last night to trigger ovulation (those glass ampules are SOOOO tricky...ended up shattering the glass in the liquid- muppet!!! Luckily I had a spare one). I am not taking any other drugs.

I thought this was a bit early as I usually ovulate on Day 13 or 14 (which would be friday or saturday). The nurse Lee explained that if I took the shot last night (midnight CD10) then ovulation should occur about 36-40 hours later- so thursday morning. They dont want to wait any longer in case I ovulate and they miss the egg. There is still a chance that they will miss it but hopefully not. So now I am booked in for egg collection tomorrow morning  .....trying hard not to get too excited.....but my mum keeps telling me to remain positive because she thinks that positive thoughts can somehow manifest into reality...if only it was that easy!!!!!

Anyway I really hope this is one of those lucky threads where people just keep getting BFPs!!  

Prija- I havent actually met the nurse Lee....have just talked to her over the phone....she seems very friendly. I really like the Professor too...he seems genuinely caring.

Incon- lots and lots of luck for tomorrow.  

Anyway I am off to listen to my "Preparing to conceive" CD...it helps you visualise yourself falling pregnant.....

Will keep you all posted 

Dixie xxx


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Dixie,
Lots of luck and take care!
Inconceivable, hope all goes well with your appointment.
Love Prija


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

good luck you guys, thinking of you both - dixie and incon.

xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Just to report back.  Had my appointment today with Geeta.  Waited for her for ages.  The scan was lovely - was on day 5 of my cycle so that was handy.  

I haven't got a good prognosis < 10 %, but that is higher that the ARGC has given me.  They gave me less than 5%.  At least she didn't refuse to treat me.  I will do natural cycle as no point in stimulating my ovaries...  V. low antral follicle count. The only good think was that my endo was good, the rest is not so good.  Haven't got high expectations...  Have resigned today from one of the part - time jobs I had and will now work only 1 day a week, which will make things a lot easier...

I liked prof Campbell a lot.  Such a nice, gentle man. 
Lots of luck Emma... Do report back.


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Inconceivable,
You sound so much more relaxed today. It's always better to know where you stand. Will you start treatment on your next cycle? Remember that your one egg will be strong so you should be positive.
Loads of luck!
Prija
Dixie, Hope things are fine!


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

Hi Incon,

well done on getting through your appointment. I have a feeling my scan outcome will be very similar to yours, but will let you know tomorrow.

i really hope i dont have to wait ages again as i have to go into work afterwards....

my acupuncturist who has been with me through thick and thin has had to stop practising suddenly as she has a detached retina. 

i'm still in two minds about whether to try again or not. 

hope you feeling good dixie.

hello prija, julianne and Paula B.

xx


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## 11th hour (Feb 4, 2006)

hi ladies... joining ur thread.

im 43  and have  just had one cycle of IVf in Czech. i noticed on inconceivablees thread that geeta at create would treat her naturally cos of only one IVF. im very interested in going down this road as i took a bunch of drugs and i didnt respond well even with a low FSH. (5.9) 5 follies, five eggs, three eggs to fertilize, all did but very average quality. so as the " drugs dont work" too well, i am considering a natural cycle. the price of 1075 quid is the same as my czech clinic 1800-2100 euro's and its ust down the road.

id like to know more about what they do. why do they only look at you if only one shot at stimulated IVF...have there been any special tests on ur ovarian reserves etc?

thanks


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## 11th hour (Feb 4, 2006)

hi..

sorry, forgot to mention that the czech clinic did not down reg me. i just stimmed. day 2-10.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

they don't down reg you on a natural cycle.  Sent you a PM, but do not hesitate to contact me if any more queries...

Emma - you are cycling now aren't you?  Got confused with your saying that you don't know whether to try again.  

My DH had an interesting thought about Geeta not recommendng ICSI.. He wandered what's the difference then with IUI ie. fertilisation within the dish vs the one in the body.  IN other words it may not fertilise with IVF.  He believes more in ICSI.


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi girls

11th Hour- welcome to this thread. I dont know much about whether Geeta will only treat you if you have only had one stimulated IVF. However I do know that she is a real advocate of a natural approach with the least amount of drugs as possible. 

Incon- glad you liked Geeta and she gave you a better prognosis. I agree the Professor is a very gentle and caring man...he made me feel very comfortable for the scans.

Emma- good luck for tomorrow and hope your scan goes well.

I had egg collection today and it all went well. They got an egg. However we were surprised by the sperm sample result with only 10% normal forms so now they may do ICSI if they think this is an issue (they were not sure it would be an issue because there was such a high volume of sperm). I guess this combined with my endo means our chances are lower. But now all I can do is sit tight and wait and hope and pray that an embryo forms. Dont think I am going to get much sleep tonight....please send any positive vibes my way  

The London Fertility Centre was good. This is my first IVF experience so I haven't got much to compare it to but they seemed very professional. We didnt have to wait long....which is a blessing when you are nervous! The staff were very friendly and approachable. I didnt meet the doctor who did the egg collection because the anaesthetist had put me out before she came into the room. Afterwards I was not in much pain although I have been bleeding a little bit but they said I should expect that. They kept me and my husband well informed throughout and I never felt that I was asking too many questions or that they were in a hurry to get rid of me.

I also had the pleasure of being introduced to pessaries today!!!! I thought a natural cycle involved no drugs but apparently Cyclogest pessaries are just standard to help with implantation should an embryo form. So now have to use those every twelve hours......UUURRGGH! Tomorrow I will talk to Geeta about them.


Will keep you posted. Fingers crossed    

Dixie xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Fingers crossed Dixie...


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

11th hour - no they give you a chance if you had more than one ivf, too.  They scan you to assess your fertility potential and do the usual tests if you haven't got them from before.  I know a girl who has just got pregnant on her 4th ivf attempt.  The 4th one was with Geeta and it worked and the others were normal ivfs.


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Well done Dixie,
Lots of luck for today!
Love Prija


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello  

just wanted to say  to all those trying natural IVF  

We had an appt with Geeta at Create last month. I thought she was very nice. She recommended us to try ICSI but with mild stimulation - so am probably not really supposed to post here? There doesn't seem to be a mild ivf thread that I can see though. Am not sure whether to go down this route at the moment. Feel v confused by all the options and also not sure I can bear to do a cycle at Christmas. Then again I'm not sure I can bear to be hanging about not doing a cycle at Christmas!!

nice to see this thread though
love coughsweet x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Coughsweet, it's the same clinic, so why not post?  If you were recommended a mild stimulation, that means you have got a better chance of succeeding.  They will try to get more eggs, which gives you a better success rate than the single egg we get each month.  This is the cheapest clinic for IVF in the UK. I paid for my ivf at the ARGC 8k - the cheapest  within their range as most people go over 10 k if they have IVIG.  I spent 10 k in total if I add the blood tests and hysteroscopy.


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi,
Coughsweet, I always posted on IVF boards despite needing ICSI as my DH azoospermic. I am hoping for an appointment with Geeta early next year and I assume that she will recommend mild IVF (I hope she will!!) as we will be using frozen testicular sperm. If it's not going to blow your NHS chances, why not give it a try? I agree with you that I would rather
not have treatment over Christmas, but each to their own. Are you OK Dixie?
Love Prija


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

Welcome new people, i think this is exactly the right place to post......

I had my scan today and it went well (only had to wait an hour! aargh that clinic drives me mad with its time keeping, but they were very apologetic). Getta said thinsg couldnt look bettre, blood flow was good, about 8 or so antral follicles, endometruim looked good too. so she has recommenede me for mild ivf, I am only 3 days off ovualting though so it will be next cycle. I am booked in for an ivf induction next thursday (another £100) and then off i go again! I have mixed feelings about that, but will do one cycle before christmas.

I say a sign in the clinic today that prices are going up from the 22nd October.

incon, no i didnt start my cycle just had the appointment with geeta.

have a great weekend all, think i will have a glass of wine tonight!

em x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Emma - its' good that they recommended a mildly stimulated cycle.  That's always a good sign as they can get more follies and therefore have better success rates...  

MY fertility is almost gone and I was given less than 10% chance by Prof Campbell.  Did she mention anything about percentages to you.  I didn't know that they charge money for the induction.  I have never had to pay for that before...And I don't need it as I already now what to expect...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

Hi Incon,

I was told less than 10% sucess at my consultation.

i know the induction is going to be like teaching granma to suck eggs, another £100 got out of me. Oh how I wish i had my tubes.

Still, come on inco, heads up, we're gonna beat the odds.

x


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Emma,
Great news! Can I ask, is an antral follicle count just a count of currently visible follicles on the ovaries? I don't think I've had one done before. I had an ovarian stress test some years ago where they give you an injection of something, then the following day count the follicles. Maybe scanning has advanced a lot. Well done, I bet you're starting to feel excited!
Love Prija


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

I only had 1 antral follicle on each ovary!  So you are super fertile in comparison.  Hence, I am thinking whether I should try at all...


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi girls

Sorry I didnt write yesterday....had quite a few problems with my internet. Anyway the good news is that an embryo has formed!   I am just off now to have it put back into me and then have two weeks of hoping and praying before I can test. Fingers and toes crossed   .

Emma - glad your appointment went well with Geeta....agree with you about the waiting times....they drive me mad! But the treatment seems good so I guess it is worth it.

Anyway got to rush as appointment is soon

Chat soon 

Dixie xxxx


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Dixie,
What wonderful news! I will be thinking of you and praying that all goes well!
Lots of love,
Prija


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Inconceivable,
It only takes one egg so of course you should try!
Good luck!
Prija


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Dixie that's fab!

The way I look at it is that it evens up the playing field for us.  Most women without fertility issues only produce one egg a month.  Even if you have entirely natural IVF (or ICSI) that puts you on level pegging without stressing your body or your ovaries into producing more poor quality eggs that probably won't fertilise or implant or develop properly if they do.  Doing it Geeta's way gives us a similar chance for our age group.

I just feel so strongly that this is the right way for us to do it.  What a normal cycle of IVF does to a woman's body seems so horrendous and so alien to her normal rythms - this HAS to be the better way, especially for those of us with older and more fragile or problematic girlie bits.

Incon - if you've got a follie developing then go for it - you've got nothing to lose if you've got the money set aside for it, and you might just get lucky.


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello
nice to see lots of people chatting on this thread. 

I have booked in for a scan at Create Tuesday next week. I am off work that week anyway and want to go and see the Golden Age of Couture exhibition at the V&A so will treat myself to that afterwards. We also have an appt at Bristol next week but we have been told that as they are moving their clinic we cannot have a cycle there until Feb/March next year. So I will continue with Create for the mo and maybe do a cycle there before Christmas. Will see how I feel next week about it all.

Lots of luck Dixie and         to everyone else
coughsweet


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

Hiya,

Thinking of that little embryo growing Dixie i hope transfer went well. we are all willing you on, the best of luck. 

Incon- i think you have to try once at least, just to see how your body responds to the different regime....because you never know, fertility is a funny thing. maybe try the bee pollen too....

sounds like a good day out coughsweet, are you based in bristol then? 

hello everyone else.

em x


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi everyone,
Hope you're taking it easy Dixie!   
Emma, when do you start? Sorry if you've said but my brain feels permanently frazzled! 
Can I ask a question about payment? Can you pay with a credit card at Create? That's the way we've always done it and then even if the money's saved we can stagger the payments with all the marvellous interest free on purchases cards around. (Hopefully adding points for something useful too!  )
Thanks everyone!
Take care!
Love Prija


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your messages! 

Embryo transfer went well on Saturday and I have had my feet up since then.....hoping and praying and generally trying to be positive! Been a bit naughty and getting DH to do everything- he has been an angel and hasnt let me do a thing!!! I have been willing my precious embie (eggbert) on....talking to it  , , telling it how much i want him/her and trying to visualise it settling into its new home!! 

The staff at LFC were really nice again for ET and did their best to make me feel comfortable....they knew it was my first IVF so they were really gentle with me. Also there was no waiting around. The only thing that did bother me was that straight after ET I only had two minutes before I had to get up, get dressed and go. The doctor and nurse there said it would make no difference and I could just resume normal activity. I just thought that I should lie down for at least half an hour or so before I get up....but I suppose they have done it a hundred times before so maybe they know better. For those of you that have had treatment before did you get up straight away?

This 2 week wait is going to be harder than I thought.....i want this so so badly and am scared to get hopeful because I know I will be heartbroken if it doesnt work. Anyway enough of my moaning...i am just grateful to get to this point and am sure it will work out okay   

Prija- about payment... You can pay by credit card. We used one which gives us airmiles so eggbert is helping us on our way to a holiday . we had to pay £250 (paid by credit card) to Create after the initial scan and consultation. Then paid £90 for blood test (E2 and LH test on CD 9 of cycle) at another Harley Street clinic that Create sent me to. Then for EC at the LFC my husband was asked to pay £950 (again credit card) before they would do the EC. There is a sign saying they need full payment before any procedure is carried out. I was under the impression the whole natural IVF with Create was £1090 (that is what it says on the website). We didnt really argue or question it at the LFC because I was so nervous about EC that my husband didnt want to put me under any more pressure. But today I am going to take this up with Create and just check why we paid them so much....on the website it says we should only pay the LFC £350 and £740 to Create. Im sure it was just a mistake and they will sort it out.

Emma- Your IVF induction is on thursday right?. You must be getting excited now....lots and lots of luck! 

Lots and lots of positive happy thoughts to all the other girls on this thread....may all our dreams come true soon xxx

Dixie


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Dixie - good luck to you.  Fingers crossed. Did you have a mildly stimulated cycle or natural altogether.  
Did you have to pay for the induction.  Geeta told us that the natural ivf was £1300.  
Also I think I read somewhere that if you have an egg collection over the weekend that you have to pay £500 extra...Maybe that explains it.  Hope mine is on work day as am skint...


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Dixie,
Glad you're resting nicely. For previous transfers I've had to have a ridiculously full bladder (to the point of extreme pain) and had to lie down for 20 minutes afterwards. However I have read many stories on these boards of people who needed neither a full bladder or any rest at all afterwards. It's probably one of those things peculiar to particular Consultants and makes no difference either way. Interestingly enough, the cycle when I became pregnant with my son, I got up virtually straight away as I could not stand the pain in my bladder, so there you go!
You know, I think all clinics are a touch sneaky when it comes to money. There are always the hidden extras, they are not daft, they know we are vulnerable!
Don't forget Positive Mental Attitude, girls!!
Lots of love,
Prija


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

congratulations dixie, we are all rooting for eggbert and hope it is starting to burrow in. the 2ww is really hard, try to keep your mind off it as much as you can as you can drive yourself crazy analysing how you feel all the time (well i speak for myself)do nice things, eat nice food and generally try and enjoy yourself. 

how many days transfer did you have was it 3 days after egg collection? also did they give you any grade on your embryo? how old are you dixie, i forgot. you girls who have no signatures its really hard to remember your situations, so apologies if i keep asking the same thing again.

i have always got up straight away after transfer including when i got pregnant.

you have to have a full bladder so that they get a good image of your uterus on the scan to see they have left the embryo in roughly the right place.

I really resent all the hidden extras with clinics. I have to have the induction even though i have had ivf 3 times already and thats £100. the thing is if it works it all fades into insignificance, and if it doesnt you tend to feel a bit negative towards the clinic, only natural i suppose.

i wont start my cycle for a while as still 2 weeks before next period.

good luck again dixie, i'm excited for you.

em x


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

ah ha, saw your signature dixie, you're a spring chicken so age is def on your side...

xx


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi girls

I had a full bladder too for ET....thought I was going to have an accident when they started prodding around in there!!!! It was quite funny actually because just before ET when my legs were up in the stirrups and I was sitting there wide open facing the nurse waiting for eggbert... the doctor was called out to speak to the Prof on the phone..... i really thought i was going to burst and give the nurse a horiible surprise 

Incon- I didnt have to take any drugs before egg collection apart from one HCG injection (two nights before EC) to induce ovulation. I thought I might have to take something because I have endo and the Prof could see that my left side was 'not my good side' with only four follicles less than 8mm on CD 10. Luckily they could see a follicle that was just under 16mm on my right side so they thought it would be fine with no drugs.

After EC (which was on CD 11) I was given Cyclogest Pessaries 400mg to be taken twice a day from the evening of EC until test day. I didnt really want to take the Cyclogest but Lee (the nurse) explained that I needed to take it to try and help my lining so that it would be easier for implantation. My lining was 6.5mm on CD10. Then I started the Cyclogest on the evening of CD11 (ec day) and it was 9.27mm on the morning of CD 13 (ET day). So far it hasnt been bad at all- no side effects.

The transfer was done two days after egg collection....Create said there was no point waiting as in a natural cycle there is only one embryo and so it is irrelevent what happens to the embryo....the best bet is to get it back in me! My embie was graded between 2-3. The embryologist said the scale is 1 to 4 and Eggbert was in the middle....average ( inherited my genes as I always got average grades at school!!)

I spoke to Create this morning and they are not sure why LFC charged us £950. They are going to look into it and get back to me. I think Incon is right-must be because I had ET on the weekend.

Thanks again for your messages....they are keeping me positive and sane!

   

Dixie x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Dixie - did u cycle in the same month that you had your ivf induction or you had to wait for the following month.  Just don't understand why I have to wait...  

Are u guys stressed?  I have never been this stressed in my life and I know it's not good.


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hey Incon

Sorry you are feeling stressed. 

I had my first consultation with Geeta on Day 5 of a cycle. She said she would try and fit me in (she said she would need to check the diary) for a totally Natural IUI cycle (no drugs at all) in that month. We wanted to do IVF so we had to wait for the following month....I had my initial scan and induction on Day 5 of the following month (this current cycle). 

I know how frustrating it is to have to wait because all you want to do is get on with it. I just tried to do loads of fun things and go out loads to help the time pass until I could start IVF.

Have you asked Create what their reasons are for not allowing you to cycle this month?  How long before you can start?

Maybe you can just try and do everything possible to be ready for when you start. I regret not starting the pineapple juice and brazil nuts etc until the day before EC! This whole thing is very stressful....have you tried anything to help you relax? Yoga or reflexology? Sometimes just a gentle walk has calmed my nerves.  I have been using the positive visualisation CD.....it find it helps but each individual is different. Hope you can find some way to stay positive. Sending you loads of positive vibes  

Hope you feel better soon

Dixie xx


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hey incon,

try not to stress, i know its easier said than done, but the more you can minimise it the better.

I would suggest two things, the natal hypnotherapy cds, either preparing to conceive or the ivf one, both are great and really helped me calm down. I am generally a very anxious person, so if they worked on me they must be good.

and secondly do something nice for yourself totally unrelated. what would be your idea of a real treat? a facial, an hours horse riding,  a day in paris. Really spoil yourself and it will help your mind to stop thinking about it for even just a little while.

I am a bit stressed about it, but i think it wont really hit me until i am actually in the cycle. To be honest I feel like I am just going through the motions, I really dont know if it will work for me and how much i have left in me emotionally and financially to keep going. I am looking forward to being able to know one way or another if i will ever have another baby and then this limbo land i have been living in can end and i can get on with my life pregnant or not pregnant.



xx


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hey

Its gone quiet on here!

Emma - hope your induction goes well tomorrow  

Incon- hope you feeling better today  

Hi to all the other girls on this thread

Babydust and BFPs to all of us   

Dixie x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

How is your 2 ww Dixie?   

DH is doing his sperm sample tomorrow ...  I hope he is not staying for a pint after work tonight.  Hasn't arrived home as yet...

Emma - it's tough being in the limbo land.  

I have reduced my workload so hope that will help.


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi everyone,
good luck Emma, hope it all goes smoothly.
Hope DH is fine tomorrow Inconceivable, that's one thing I can't worry about anymore!!
Love Prija


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Emma, Dixie and Prija - thx for your good wishes.  HOpe you are all doing well...


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hey

2ww is okay- trying not to drive myself crazy . I have never known time to drag soooo slowly in all my life!! So far no symptoms at all....but I guess that could be a good thing. Cant wait till the 27th!   

Hope your hubbys sperm test goes okay tomorrow.  

Less of a workload sounds good.... hopefully you will feel a bit more relaxed for when you do start treatment   


Please please please let this become a thread full of BFPs  

Dixie xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Good luck Dixie ... 2 ww is such a rollercoaster....

-Thx for your good wishes...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

Hello All,

c'mon, get posting, otherwise our thread will disappear..

hey dixie, hope you doing OK..give us an update when you can.

hey prija, how you doing?

Hi Incon, hope all went well with your hubby today. my fella likes the odd ciggy and beer and i do try to lghten uo about it, but actually seem to spend most of my time having a go at him. not the greatest way to start a tx.

I had my induction today, it was booked for 9am, first appointment of the day so i reasoned that i would be seen on time as i was the first.....aaaaargh! 10.15 i went in, i must try and not let it get to me as i dont need the extra stress. i did complain though, i told the receptionist (who is sweet) to pass on my comments and she did say she would.

Anyway i have all my drugs ready to go on day 2 of next af. It really feels like just another medicated cycle which is a dissapointment as i wnatde to avoid all of those drugs again. but it is a very low dose.

i am trying very hard to get excited, but cant quite. i am def going to start my cds again tonight. 

I am nervous about the sedation for ec, how is that part?

em x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Emma - I also had my induction.  Mine was at Harley St . Started on time more or less. Maybe 9.15 and was finished quickly.  don't see why they charge £100.  I was also pushed in the direction of drugs, 15o gonal f.  My drugs, however, are not for stimulation but for support and they will tell me on day 5 if I am starting that day or later...  Is your dose the same.  I was given the choice of totally natural cycle, but was pushed towards medication as they suggested that the risk of missing on the egg, premature ovulation and so on was to great... So, there doesn't seem to be anything like a natural cycle, really..   I think it's good that you are having stimms from day 2.  Sounds frankly more promising as you may produce 2, 3 or 4 follies if you are lucky and will therefore have a greater chance...

Hubby produced his sample this morning with some difficulty as was annoyed with the whole induction thing, which both of us thought unnecessary... I am having a wobble about the whole thing.  I pressed the dr this morning, not Geeta by the way, to tell me the stats about natural ivf.  It turns out that all the stats they published are for stimulated cycles. They don't have the stats for natural ivf - which is what I am having.  She also told me that I should be aware what my chances are based on my antral count, which was two miserable antrals anyway...

Maybe I should save my money for a donor attempt.  Will chat to dh.  Donor eggs in the Czech are around 2k and if this does not work I have to fork that money out of somewhere and I no longer care how I get the baby.  DH is more keen on my eggs than me.  I am just dreading another failure...

Maybe if I hadn't done the ARGC cycle, which cost me 10 k, I would have done 3 of Geeta's.  Now I simply haven't got that kind of money.  I owe so much on ccards already...

Emma, how many cycles are you planning to do if this one does not work out... How about the rest of you ie Dixie, Julianne, Prija...  Has anybody set a limit?


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

Hiya,

i also was angry about the induction fee, but i think it was just the way its presented. they should include it in the overall costs and then i wouldnt mind, its just this thing that "oh by the way there is something  else to pay for". i wouldn't even notice if it was included in the whole price. i think its just bad management by them. I didnt even take dp, i knew it would be a waste of time. 

Also it is just like another medicated cycle - natural shmatural! my dose is 150 of gonal f from day 2 and bureselin as well. There's me thinking i could get away with no more injections.

I am going to take it step by step, my thinking is I will do this cycle and see how i respond to the mild stims and no down regging and what sort of quality the embies are (if i get any.) then i will have christmas off and if not pregnant will get very drunk as a girl has got to have some fun and i have spent the whole of this year swallowing vitamins, eating nuts and crap, drimnking 2Ls of water every day no alchol, not smoking, no late nights and i've had enough of it..

Then in 2008 i will think again. If this cycle doesnt work i am very doubtful that i will go again, never say never but at this stage i dont think so. I wont go down the DE route, i'm not sure that i'm cut out for that.

anyway as money is  pouring out our bank account like nobodys business i am going to spend even more money on a massage and hypnotherapy at zita west clinic and see if i can get a bit more positive before i start this cycle. i really shouldnt but im going to.

anyway other ladies, dont worry about me being negative, its all part of the rich tapestry that is IVF. ups and downs, highs and lows. And we have dixie to nuture.xx

em x


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hey girls

Em: Did you meet Geeta today or was it just one of the nurses- Lee or Amina? How did you find them? 

The waiting times are ridiculous  . I have decided that everytime I go there I will go with a book and expect to have to wait at least an hour and that way if I get taken in on time I will have a nice surprise!

Think I am going to do a mild IVF next time..... I guess there is no winning because when you dont take any drugs like me then I keep feeling as if I havent done anything ....feels exactly the same as any other month before IVF....most of the other ladies on the 2ww have sore boobs, bloatedness, AF twinges etc but nada for me! I know that doesnt mean anything but cant help but wonder...

2ww is going okay- 5 days past ET. When people say it is a rollercoaster I didnt quite appreciate what they meant but now I do and think I am on the train to crazyville . I am feeling quite rational and positive today. But it isnt always like that. I think my DH is worried for my sanity....poor thing must be on edge because he knows I might seem fine and then at any minute I can flip out. The other day he came home from work, kissed me on my forehead and asked how I was doing.....I started balling my eyes out because he didnt ask how eggbert was doing!!   . But now both of us are getting used to this up and down business (NOT THAT KIND OF UP AND DOWN!!!!)

Overall though I am trying to be positive and happy  . Was reading over my Zita West book and it says in there how much she thinks a positive frame of mind can really affect the outcome. Today I spent the day lounging around watching telly, went for a gentle walk and looked at a thread: Endo and IVF Success. Then I read all the BFP announcements and Birth Announcements......hoping these happy thoughts will somehow will eggbert into life!!! Also read the thread on the 'Orange dot' and am finding that it helps....everytime I have a negative thought...I think of the orange spot and repeat phrases like 'I could be pregnant', 'Loads of women on here didnt think it would happen and it did', 'It just takes one' etc etc.  

Which cd do you use? Is it the 'preparing to conceive'. I use that one but wanted to know if anyone has tried the IVF one.

About the sedation for EC... I found it fine and I am a big baby and I hate needles. They took me into theatre (DH wasnt allowed in)and the nurses and aneasthetist introduced themselves....the consultant doing the egg collection was on her way when they put me out. I just held out my left arm and looked the other way....he warned me I would feel a prick and i felt the prick of the needle and a funny feeling up my arm...then I was out. Think I was uncomfortable for about 5 seconds before I was out. Next thing I remember was the aneasthetist calling my name and telling me to wake up.... I started shouting " Did you get my egg, did you get my egg". My DH explained that I continued shouting this (even though they kept answering me 'Yes')  as I was wheeled past reception and the waiting room!!!! That is how he knew I was finshed!

After the EC I took about half an hour before I felt fine. They make sure that somebody is dropping you home...my DH had planned to go back to work after waiting an hour or so but they insisted that I should be taken home. I felt fine but DH came because he was worried. I didnt feel any discomfort or bloating or anything like that after the EC. But I did have a couple of tablets fall out of my bottom when I got home which was a surprise!!! Apparently they give you an antibiotic to ensure an infection doesnt develop.....

On that lovely note I will leave you girls (there is a documentary on Finding Maddy on Channel 4)

About our treatments lets keep our PMA up and see what happens....you just never know    


   



Dixie xx


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

Hi dixie,

good to hear from you.

No geeta just rushed in and out of the buidling like posh spice or something "no press!" I saw a doctor (i think) but i cannot remember her name.

i was of the same mind as you, next time i shal take some coursework to do and make good use of the hour or so.

Re symptoms, its still early days and lots of the others on here get side effects from the drugs they are taking. you are doing great and almost half way there!

It is such a rollercoaster and however balaced you are before you start you can never prepare yourself for all the hopes and dreams and fears it puts you in touch with. you just dont knwo where to go with your mind and you swing from optimisim to pessimism in the space of 10 minutes.

Your relaxation methods sound great, just the thing. and of course you could be pregnant, enjoy each day of it and treat yourself!

you and zita are right about pma, but i have to be careful that its not another thing to worry about if you have a down day, that is not going to make it not happen.

I have the ivf companion cd and i like it. there are two bits. one chilling you out about the clinic appointments and one for whne the embie is tucked up safe and warm inside you. there are some nice visualisations on there and i would recommend it.

anyway lots of good quality chocolate for you - and take care

em x


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Girls,
Dixie, hope you are keeping your spirits up. I know how hard the 2 week wait is. It could drive you insane, in fact I believe it is the hardest part of any treatment. The reason why so many people get symptoms is because of all the drugs they are taking. When I had my natural frozen embryo transfer in 2003, I only had to take Cyclogest post transfer and I felt absolutely nothing, apart from what I was certain was PMT and AF pains. I travelled 300 miles to my parents' house, hoovered their house, mowed their lawns and 'knew' it hadn't worked, I only did the pregnancy test as a formality and could not believe my eyes. I then had no symptoms apart from indigestion for the whole 12 weeks. So in your case, you would be very unlikely to have symptoms. Keep up the PMA and do lots of nice things to keep you sane!
Inconceivable, I know waiting around for appointments is stressful, I don't think I've ever been seen anywhere  on time. Sadly I think that's just one thing we have to accept about clinics. Hope you can get going with whatever you choose quickly.
Emma, I love your plans! Hopefully they won't be needed though!
Inconceivable, to answer your question about number of attempts, In 2003, I said never again. I believe if my first 2006 ICSI had neen neg then I may have found it easier to let go, but an ectopic made it so difficult for me to accept. DH and I were talking last night and he asked my Consultant last year if we could freeze embryos, as I had mild OHSS and he said no. I think that because I became pregnant following FET, I sometimes think that it was because my body was less stressed. I suppose we'll never know. Do Create freeze embryos? If so, at what stage? Does anyone know?
Well Girls, I'm off to finish painting my dining room. I'm taking the boys down to London on Sunday, so I won't be back until the end of next week. I may post before I go though. 
Tonnes of luck to you Dixie and to Emma and Inconceivable, (and of course to everyone else).
Lots of love,
Prija


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hey girls

Thanx for your messages again!  They made the tiny light of hope I have flicker!! I am half way through the 2ww....not holding out much hope though....just have a feeling that it hasnt worked...but know it is not over until the wicked witch flies in! 

Im going to enjoy this weekend and just get on with it until I have to test....i can not wait!!!

Hope you all have a wonderful weekend  

  

Dixie x


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Arrrghhhhh!!! I can post now I'm not all tearful, just arrrggghhhhhh!!!!  My man has got the wobbles over the whole thing - helped along by his ex ringing up twice a day and yelling at him.  

For a bit of background,  here's the whole sorry saga. 

He and his ex-fiend have a 5 yr old concieved by ICSI.  He's not the best at emotional support, so didn't really go along for the ride with her when they did their cycle and subsequently didn't understand why she suddenly went pyscho.  He thinks (still does!) that these things should be done in a measured and unemotional way.  Yes really.  Anyway, during the pregnancy she developed colon cancer and it was discovered that she had some protein deficiency that made her vulnerable to it and the high-stim approach IVF kicked it off.  So you can imagine what the poor woman went through - IVF, childbirth, cancer diagnosis, surgery and 3 courses of back to back chemo.  I imagine she wasn't particularly measured or unemotional at any stage!! At some point during chemo she started yelling at him and basically never stopped.  When Poppy was 2 she upped and left for NZ and he's only been able to see his daughter a couple of times a year since then, which totally slays him.

He now has a problem with women "going psycho" and thinks that no matter how sweet or kind you are, you could flip and start the everlasting yelling at any time.  I've been tempted over the last couple of weeks I can tell you!  One of the reasons for looking at the more natural approach is to allay some of those fears he has, and to allow me to cope better with not going loopy - which we all know is a natural side effect of the usual IVF regime.  I've also been waiting for a couple of years for him to get his head around the idea of having another child.  I stupidly thought that even though we hadn't talked about it much, he knew I posted here and wanted to start a cycle sooner rather than later, and that 2 years would be enough time for him to become comfortable with the idea.  I've told him time after time that I don't want to rush him, and if he doesn't want to go for it then we won't.  

When I found Create he told me to make the appointments, which I stupidly took to be a green light.  I found myself having strange and very tense conversations with him in Harley St, and outside the clinic he walked away from me for a while to calm down.  I was worried, this wasn't a man who was happy with what was in front of him.  He told me later that just going near the consulting rooms made him feel sick, he was convinced (and again, still is) that history will repeat itself.  We ended up having massive rows the week we had our investigative tests.  The worst was after my scan.  I was so pleased about my apparently good ovarian reserve I kind of burbled on about it.  I should have been able to burble on about it and him to be happy for us shouldn't I?  I'd also had the idea that if he wasn't ready now, I could go ahead and cycle and see if we could have any embies to freeze to buy more time if he wasn't ready right now for kids.  I figured, quite reasonably I thought, that the younger your eggs the better the chances down the line.  Right?  Wrong, apparently I was getting away ahead of myself and "doing his head in".  He got himself worked up into a complete frenzy, and most of it because he refuses to learn about the procedures or the terminology and can't understand what I'm talking about.  I was feeling pretty devastated and confused by the end of the day, and we stood there doing the washing up and he said "now I understand why men of my age run a mile from women of your age".  I put the dishcloth down, I walked into the bedroom and broke my heart.  Then I wiped away the tears, went back into the kitchen and picked up the cloth like it never happened.  If I cry or show emotion about any of this he accuses me of "going psycho" and says it's a sign I'm not in the right emotional place.

I love him dearly, and I know he'd like to have more kids.  But how the heck do you get past ingrained, hysterical fears like this?  Has anyone had parallel experiences?  As far as I'm concerned, I'll collect the test results and that's it for now, I just can't cope with the way he is when fertility is mentioned.  I've been so good and calm - not even remotely psycho or over-emotional.  But I'd like to be able to express my feelings on something so important, to have the emotional latitiude that you need when going through something like this.  I don't know how to get past these huge panicky blindspots of his.  I know he's terrified that he might end up with a kid of either side of the world, and that's a valid fear and I understand it.  We're planning to move to Australia or NZ early next year - what if I can't hack it and come home?  And I'd be coming home alone as being near his daughter is his first priority.  If he'd just expressed that as a reason not to proceed right now then it would have been fine, I could accept that as a valid reason to wait.  But he's revealed a whole lot of scary stuff sitting in his psyche that I haven't a clue how to deal with.

The upshot is, I guess I won't be having any treatment at Create after all, but I'll still hang out on this thread and see how you're all doing.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Julianne - 

Doesn't sound good.  I think your dh needs to deal with the issues he obviously has and this has nothing to do with you.  The whole thing about dealing with this in an unemotional and measured way is nonsense... 

I think he should see a counsellor and talk about his fears otherwise this will have an impact on your relationship.  He had a traumatic experience, but that is in the past and he should have moved on really... If history is repeating itself, he should now try to offer support to you if he wasn't there for his ex i.e. learning from mistakes rather than being overwhelmed by emotions...  

I do hope you go for the cycle especially as this is the less stressful option.  Had you decided to cycle at the ARGC, you dh would have freaked out... That's intensive...  Maybe talk to him again when he calms down a bit and suggest that you see somebody and deal with his fears...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

Julianne,

that sounds very hard hunny. incon is right there are a load of issues going which are all understandable but nothing to do with you and him. Also although we can all see why he might be feeling some of these things, it is his duty, as an adult man with someone he loves, to face them head on. he needs to talk to someone soon.

Maybe you can go together to an ivf counsellor (not sure if this is free at create? it was at my last clinic). that might be a good first step which may lead him to look at doing something longer term to help him come to terms with what has gone on. It may be hard to persaude him but he has to see that while he is hurting inside he is giving it out and hurting you,(thats a very spiteful thing he said when you wee washing up), thats how these things go sometimes. if you (one)feel bad you try to make everyone else feel bad too and its not fair.

This a real tough one for you as you love him and you know he's good, for him to feel better will take time and thats what we havent got when it comes to our fertility. 

I am sending you lots of support through the air and I hope you can talk to each other openly and without anger soon.

xxx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Counselling would be good, and I'm not sure if it was offered at Create.  Certainly they seem more focused at getting you on a treatment cycle rather than taking your time and thinking things through.  As first timers I think you should HAVE to have at least one session of counselling to prepare you as best you can for the ups and downs.  I think half the stress caused to couples is that men just don't understand what's happening to their wives when enduring treatment and take it all personally.  They just don't - can't possibly - understand what it's like to be in a hormone hell when there's such big peaks and troughs on the rollercoaster.  

It's no wonder that couples break up under the pressure of IVF!


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello

well I had my scan at Create yesterday. It was not the best news - Lee said I had below average antral follie count for someone my age, plus they think I have a polyp which may have to be removed before starting treatment but they need to scan me later at a different point in my cycle to check first   So in limbo a bit at the moment as to whether will be doing a cycle next time or not. I feel a bit down this morning and even more urgent about getting on with it now I know my fertility is not that great.

Julianne - I feel for you. From reading your post you seem very capable of expressing your emotions honestly and it must be very frustrating to be with someone who does not. It's just way too big and important to not talk about isn't it? I found your post actually helped me to realise some of my own fears about starting a cycle. I think that one of the most difficult things about all this is getting through it together with my DH but recognising that we have different styles of coping with it. (I have to say my dh has resistance to learning the terminology too which irritates me no end!) We are due for a sit down and some decision making by the end of the week (we have an appt at Bristol tomorrow as well - am packing as much as poss into half term as I am off work) and I have to say I'm not really looking forward to that chat. I liked your phrase "emotional latitude" - mind if I borrow it? - having not done a cycle before I am really nervous about how loopy I will go. And I am nervous that if I go really loopy on the first my DH will object to doing another if its needed! I hope you manage to move forward in your situation somehow - you deserve your chance to follow your dream.

Best of luck Dixie     - am rooting for you! Took your advice yesterday and made sure I had a good book with me for the hour in the waiting room!!

   incon and emma 

Do you all live in London? Just wondering if you have any advice on somewhere to book in and stay around embryo transfer time? (Somewhere cheap that is   )

love coughsweet x

P.S. Golden Age of Couture exhibition at V&A was fab - just the ticket after an appointment


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi all

Julianne- so sorry that you are having to deal with this at a time when you should be full of excitement at the prospect of starting tx. I can relate to how your DH is reacting as mine is also a bit emotionally dead and has found it hard to deal with the emotional rollercoaster. I think counselling would be great if your DH agrees to it. Maybe you could tell him that you have put everything on hold as you can see that there is too much pressure between you....but at some point soon you would like to sit down and try and discuss calmly where you both want to go with this tx.
Really hope that this is just last minute nerves on his part. Also the treatment you receive at Create will be much less stressful on your body and probably quite different to the treatment of his ex so he really shouldnt compare the two. I hope with a little more time he will come round and realise it doesnt have to be a traumatic as his first experience. Sending you lots of hugs  .


Coughsweet-  sorry that you didnt get the news you wanted at your first scan. Hopefully Geeta will be able to tailor a tx that will give you the best chance. When is your next scan? Lots of luck for that  

I am nearly at the end of the 2ww...but not holding out much hope at all as I have had severe AF pains and my body is in the exact same pattern as it has been when I am not pregnant. I know it is not over until i get AF but i think i just know my body. The hospital said I should have a blood test tomorrow to test but Create dont really do blood tests so I can do a home pregnancy test this saturday. I am going to wait till saturday... I am pretty sure I will get AF by Saturday anyway 

Will keep you all posted 

Dixie xx

(ps: if any of you are near a TV Professor Campbell is on This Morning right now talking about abortion)


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Hello girls, 

I hope u are all doing well... 

Coughsweet - sorry to hear about the setback.  Did they actually advise that the polyp be removed?  
I think you are doing well having started at 36.  I also did but unfortunatelly with the NHS.  I would advise you to start pursuing treatment asap...  I must have had indications at 36 that my fertility is lower than it should be, but it must have been missed out on in the NHS bureacracy...So in a lot of ways you are a lucky girl ... HOpe all goes well for you...

Nico 67 rents her topfloor appartment to ff people, so you may want to get in touch with her.  She is on the ARGC mad chatter thread.  It would be about 20 mins away, which is good for London... I think it's cheaper than hotels or b&bs especially the ones near the clinic.  There is also a thread on accommodation in London near the ARGC, which you may find useful as the Create is within 5 mins walking distance from the ARGC. 

Julianne - hope you manage to talk things over with DH.  Also don't waste  your time on your hubby's wobbles... I don't know how old you are but after 37 fertility falls really rapidly... So, pls don't wait too long...

Dixie - fingers crossed for you....    One never knows... and age is on your side so plenty of time to try again if it doesn't work... Also why did Geeta suggest a natural as opposed to mildly stimulated cycle for you?  You would have had a greater chance of success with some stimulation as more embies equates to better success rates and 150 gonal F would have damaged your eggs? 

Emma - when are you starting?  I should start some time next wk.  Tue or Wed...

Prija - have you already made your app.  

I am feeling apprehensive as I know this cycle is like a drop in an ocean.  I won't be cycling anymore after this...So for me it's a closure..and I still have wobbles whether to go for it. I probably will, but it won't be an easy thing to do... I feel probably more apprehensive than hopeful...

I had my 3d wedding anniversary yesterday...and I  never imagined that I will get to my 40th birthday without children...  This has truly been my annum horribilis...it started with a donor egg speech at the UCH in Jan 07.  ON a brighter note I had a lovely acu + massage yesterday and a nice dinner with dh, although we were both a bit sad...  Will discuss donor eggs tonight with dh as I have to put myself on the list if I am to cycle next summer... So, I have got a plan B, but wish I didn't have to go down that route...

Fingers crossed for all of you who are about to cycle...


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello

Dixie     thinking of you

Incon - thanks for helping me look at this a bit more positively. I certainly want to get started with tx asap. Bless you for your honesty - it must have been such a mixture of feelings having your 3rd anniversary. We have only been married for just over a year and I am sad that so much of that time has been taken over with all this fertility stuff. I hope your talk with your DH about donor eggs went well. I think I would go for it but I know it's another thing when you are actually faced with that decision. 
Thanks as well for pointing out the accomodation options - it's a good thread by the looks.

love coughsweet x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Coughsweet - the most important thing is that you are about to start ttc and you have got time to achieve your goal...   

The donor talk didn't go so well, as dh doesn't want to have children with a stranger...We talked till small hours this morning, so dh will be knackered today... Poor thing ... 

Fingers crossed for Dixie...    

What's happening with everybody else?  

Did you guys have to pay for your GP form.?  My gp wants to charge me to fill in the questionnaire on my health...  Not happy about it and the Create wouldn't go ahead without it...Not exactly flexible.  Nobody has asked me for this before...and the UCH is bureaucratic enough...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

Hello everyone,

dixie, i am holding my breath....nothing is certain until the test or af so really dont write off your chances. cramps can be an early pregnancy symptom.and please read prijas post again....



prija said:


> When I had my natural frozen embryo transfer in 2003, I only had to take Cyclogest post transfer and I felt absolutely nothing, apart from what I was certain was PMT and AF pains. I travelled 300 miles to my parents' house, hoovered their house, mowed their lawns and 'knew' it hadn't worked, I only did the pregnancy test as a formality and could not believe my eyes.


Julianne, ~i really hope things are moving forward for you, thinking of you.

hello prija, hope you well.

hey coughsweet, i'm sorry about you feeling a bit down. re your scan: i think in medecine generally the terms they use are very negative and can seem very black & white when actually making a baby is the least predictable thing you will ever do. you may have fewer follies but they may be the ripest juiciest most fertile eggs that have ever been and nobody can really tell you your chances. they can only speculate based on numbers and statistics and like i say fertilty is just not like that, its magic. we have to be careful with the information clinics give us as it has the capability of ruining our PMA and thats not helpful for us. you are still young and you are on your way! Also dont worry too much about the drugs, its tough but you will def cope.

Incon, hey you, sorry the De conversation wasnt great, but you made a start and those kind of things can take time to absorn and reflect on. also your next cycle could work! so you dont need to go rushing down that route.

My period is due on wednesday so looks like we will start pretty much on the same day.

i am not looking forward to it, like incon this is my last shot, i wont try again. even though i believe there is a baby left in my eggs we do not have the emotional or financial resources to keep going for ever. so this will be it. but hey who knows, this could be the one.

I think the hard thing for me about cycling is that it opens up all the desire and dreams abut having another baby, i can manage to shut it out a but between cycles as life is busy but while im in the middle of it the emotions are so strong and raw it hurts.

hey ho.

i shall probably have my scan at harley street as i hope it is falling on a work day.

hugs to you all

em xxxx

ps incon it says at the bottom of the form you can fill it in yourself, i wish i had noticed that before. you have to give reasons.... x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

I am also due to start next wk....  

I called yesterday and they said I must get the form signed off by gp and the bloody gp want to charge me...Grrrr

I will give it a whirl...


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

hi girls

just a quick update.... in the last 24 hours I have been to heaven and back down to hell 

yesterday morning i was convinced that i was not pregnant so i took a pregnancy test to put myself out of my misery(2 days early). To my utter shock it said 'pregnant' (clearblue digital- but when i took the stick out i could not see two lines just one dark line and a very faint faint smudge). Anyway i was in shock and didnt believe it...i rang the clinic who said the HCG from the trigger shot should be out of my system so I am most likely pregnant. I wanted to do a blood test but they said dont worry...you are most likely pregnant ....just do a test tomorrow morning if you want to be sure. As you can imagine my heart started running away with me and I actually dared to believe i was pregnant. I was cautiously over the moon. Well I couldnt wait till morning and i did another test at 1am because i couldnt sleep- this time it said 'not pregnant'. I feel so sick and so so sad. I am still hoping and praying with all my heart that I am pregnant. Have phoned a private hospital near me and am going to get a blood test done now...

please pray for me ....i dont think i can take it if it says i am not pregnant....i want this soo soo badly. I feel so terrible for what i have put my DH through just because i cant control myself and want to test all the time.....he was soo happy when i did the test and it said pregnant and now when he left for work i know he was heartbroken too....

anyway will keep u all posted

dixie xx


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

oh dixie, 

you tested early - thats naughty!

the best time to test in these early days (if at all)  is in the morning as that is when the hormone is most concentrated in your urine. so it may just be that there is not quite enough around at the moment to give you a positive late at night.

Really you should just wait until test day, i know thats easy for me to say.....

anyway best of best of bestest luck i will keep my eyes peeled for your post later.

em x


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Girls,
Dixie, of course I will say a prayer for you and all of our thoughts are with you. I agree with Emma, in the very early days, there is normally only enough HCG present to be detected in the first urine of the day, ie. when you waken up after many hours sleep with a full bladder of concentrated urine. Now at 1AM, your bladder wouldn't be that full and urine would be quite diluted. Fingers crossed for you!
I will check back later, I was just going to quickly post that I've made my appointment, but I'll chat more later. I know there have been lots of things happening. Love to you all!
Prija


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hey girls

It is a BFN for me i think. Had the blood test and it was negative. I am still clinging to hope because there was some issue getting my blood test result. The hospital took my blood at 10.30 and said the result would be ready by 11.30am. When I rang at that time they said they needed a bit more time so to call back at 11.45am.....when I rang back at 11.45am they said they needed another 40 minutes becuase the results were still not ready....when I rang at 12.30pm they said ring back at 1.30pm because they had to re-run the results on the computer 

Anyway at 1.30pm I rang and they said the conclusion was negative....i asked if there was any chance the test could be wrong or too early or whether there was any trace of HCG at all and they said they could not discuss the full results with me but would fax them to Create who would be able to explain them to me. They faxed them to Create but there is nobody free to explain it to me...Lee is really busy and is going to try and call me when she gets a chance.

I know i am just clinging to hope....but is there a chance that the blood test is too early I had a positive yesterday on the Clearblue HPT when I had slept for 11 hours and my urine was really concentrated and dark (sorry too much info!).....do you think I am just clutching at straws?? I thought that HPT hardly ever give false positives.....and it is unlikely to be the trigger shot because it was over 14 days after I took the shot... I know I also got a negative on the Clearblue HPT but I had been drinking water a few hours before that

I am on cycle day 27 and usually my periods are 27 or 28 days so I guess I will just have to wait.......

I know it is silly but I still have my fingers crossed    

Let me know your thoughts
Dixie xx


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

its not silly, but it is just a matter of waiting a couple of days. nothing is definite until your af comes. just try and stay calm and see what transpires over the next day or so. whether you know for def or not now will not change your outcome so just try and breath deep, relax and get into a good place.

poor you, i know how you feel, however philosophical you try to be it is impossible to not get totally dragged into the rollercoster ride. i feel for you, its really tough.

hugs and warmest thoughts and wishes.
em xxx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Dixie     . Must be tough... I had such a disappointment with my chemical pregnancy when the test showed positive and I was late for 10 days and by the time I arranged to see my GP, AF arrived ... Hope this is not the case with you... Just try to be as kind to yourself as you possibly can...  

I have just had email from smb offering their eggs to me... Food for thought...


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Dixie,
Sorry about everything.
I don't really understand why they said test was negative but that Create would discuss results with you. That doesn't make sense. I really hope you get your call this evening. The waiting is so painful.
Take care.
Lots of love,
Prija


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hey girls

Lee phoned me just now....and has put my mind at rest a bit. She said she spoke to the hospital that did the test and they do it differently to any of the hospitals she uses...they dont give her any reference range for the HCG. I think they just give a negative or positive. She said they do the test for different purposes. Anyway she said she has to take their word for it and most likely i am not pregnant but I am to continue to take the pessaries and not go near a HPT until monday. I said to her that it is very unlikely that a clearblue digital would give me a false positive....she agreed but said there is no point speculating and now we should just wait.

I am going to try and stay calm.... i know there is a very real possibility that I am not pregnant .....but there is still some hope.   

The lessons I have learnt: DO NOT TEST EARLY!!! and ALWAYS USE A FERTILITY CLINIC FOR BLOOD TESTS!

Thanks for listening to me

Hope you all have a fab weekend 

Dixie xx


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Dixie,
I am so glad you got your call. It sounds very sensible advice that Lee has given you. I will be thinking of you over the week-end!
Sorry no more personals right now, feeling a bit unwell, wondering if it is because of typhoid jab I had. (Travelling to India at Christmas to see DH's family).
Take care everyone!
Love Prija


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello

oh Dixie it put my heart in my mouth just reading all your last posts - so heaven knows what the past couple of days must have been like for you!   and hope you find some distractions this weekend. 

We have decided to go and see "Ratatouille" at the cinema tonight - the latest showing so it's not too full of kids! I think it's about the right level for my brain to cope with at the mo  . I had a whole load of blood tests done for the clinic - Hepatitis, HIV etc etc recently but earlier in the week when I got a copy of the results they forgot to give me the result of my full blood count. Got the result yesterday and it turns out I am anaemic which is probably linked to heavy periods (which in turn could be linked to polyp?) Am glad that will be sorted anyway as feel utterly whacked at mo but was putting it all down to work and stress of ttc. 

Went to Bristol clinic on Thurs. They were v nice and we are going on waiting list there too. As the clinic is moving premises we could not go there before March/April next year. I am hoping of course that it never has to come to that and that Create manage a miracle. It's v hard deciding what to do. I wish I had more of a PMA but to be honest am feeling quite scared about having tx. Think I will try and get CD some of you were discussing. Any other tips please? I had a go at acupuncture earlier this year but didn't really get on with it plus it was expensive going there every week.

Hi Incon and Emma - thinking of you for this cycle

Prija - hope you feel better soon

Julianne   

love coughsweet x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Dixie -  .  Think of all this as a journey with minor setbacks.  Time is definitely on your side and statistically one has to do 3 of natural ivfs to rival a normal ivf.  So, in case it hasn't succeeded you can consider your options and decide what to do... 

Coughsweet - it's a good idea to get cds and perhaps you can find a cheap acu. It does relax you.  YOu will feel better once you get started...  

Emma - good luck for next wk    

I wish I was this wise a few years back...     

Am off for a walk now...


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Everyone!
Dixie, I am so sorry for how hard this is for you. Still keeping my fingers crossed for you!  
Inconceivable, I hope you have managed to get your forms sorted and that everything goes as smoothly as possible for you. 
Julianne, what an emotional time this is for you. Maybe it doesn't help, but I have been through so many ups and downs with DH, partly to do (maybe mostly) with the turmoils of treatment. I think at the end of the day, when you work your way through the problems it only makes your relationship stronger. I hope you manage to work through things. 
Emma, not long now till you get started. Are you feeling excited? Or is that not quite the right word?! 
I made my appointment yesterday for 21st February 2008. I have made it at Harley Street and the lady was very helpful and suggested that because I am travelling a long way she will book me in for a scan on the same day. It gives me plenty of time to prepare myself.
Hope you all manage to enjoy the week-end.
Lots of love to all!
Prija


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Wow, you've all been busy since I last posted!  Prija, you'll be fine at Harley St.  They are all very nice there, and Prof Campbell is great, I didn't remotely mind him being between my legs (so to speak!) 

I've got everything crossed for you all.  It's bloody horrible and we shouldn't have to go through this.  I've come to conclusion that there's a conspiracy somewhere out there when it comes to fertility.  Why is it that the most unsuitable people to be parents can shell babies like peas, but a large percentage of people I know that would make great parents are having fertility problems?  It would seem to be a very marked trend!

As for me and DH, I've given him space to calm down and unwobble himself again.  He's made little (unprompted) references to fertility, and I've made little references back without pushing it.  I've found that men can rarely take a full on let's-talk-it-out-completely-in-one-go session.  So I'm approaching the problem in little bites when he prompts it.  We were travelling back from Dorchester yesterday after a mad weekend and he talked a bit about the situation.  A big part of his problem is that he feels that being subfertile means you shouldn't try and change the status quo - that there's a good reason for childlessness.  I pointed out that if I'd tried for a baby when I was younger I probably could have.  The only damage I have is related to endo marching around and destroying my tubes.  I also pointed out that being a young mad scientist doing all sorts of weird chemical experiments - he could have exposed himself to any number of chemicals that knocked out his count.  Male fertility is very vulnerable in that respect.  The fact that the quality is good means that there's probably no chromosomal difficulties or genetic nastiness that could be passed on.  He was struck with the idea that if we'd met at 17 we might have been able to have babies just like anybody else.

I left him to chew on that one.  

I also said that (as pagans) we trust the Goddess to do right by us, and if it's wrong for us to have a baby then no baby will be sent (and I do believe that little souls chose to be with you).  However, by not trying then we're not giving the Goddess a chance to grace us with a little one.  

I left him to chew on that one as well!

I'll get him there, slowly.  I think he'll baulk until we've established for sure that I can go with him to Aus.

Has anyone here thought about adoption?  Since I read about the dying rooms in chinese orphanages in the early 90's I've always wanted to adopt, and still intend to at some point.  Have you guys considered this path?  I can't quite get my head around the donor egg idea and I'm wary of donor eggs from eastern europe because of the terrible stories I've read about how they wreck the fertility of the donors.  I don't want a baby so bad that it's at the expense of another woman's fertility. 

What do you all think about it?


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Julianne - If I recall correctly Geeta said that you have got good fertility potential. So, why think of donor egg and adoption?  I would rather have  a donor egg than adoption and my dh would go for the opposite ie adoption. He doesn't like the idea of de.  As for Eastern European women, many donors have children and don't intend to have more than they have.  And there are limits legally established as to how many times a donor can donate.  In the Czech Rep, for example, (the Reprofit thread is quite popular) they seem to do it responsibly.  They only stimulate donors to produce btw 5 to 7 eggs, which means small doses of medication, so that they fertility is not necessarily severely affected/destroyed.  

With regards to the adoption I hate the idea of bureaucracy that it involves... Maybe if it were slightly more straightforward process I would consider it.  Oona King apparently got her baby boy within 4 months, but then we are not all high profile ex MPs.  

I hope you do go for the treatment, though...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hello everyone.

no word from dixie? hope you OK we are thinking of you.

julianne, sounds like you are a very sensible woman and def making progress with your DH. In my experience of men they never doing anything without dragging their heels, even if its something they want to do deep down. Re adoption, i think i would have gone down that route, but now i have my ds that feels like a whole new kettle of fish and i probably wouldnt look at that now, like incon says 1 step at a time altough it is good to have some knowledge of all the options. Are you a pagan? that sounds very interesting to me and conjours up images which are probably all wrong like big bonfires and lots of celebrations.

congrats on your appointment prija, you have enough time to enjoy christmas and be super prepared for the new year.

hey incon, how you feeling? any day now for us hey? i'm not doing great this cycle. last cycle i was so positive about it but this one i am just burying my head in the sand. i think i'm ok and then i went for coffee with a friend today and talking about it i burst into tears really unexpectdly, it just came from somwhere deep and spilled over. 

Coughsweet, i'm glad about the iron becuase you can do something about that and hopefully you will feel rejuvinated and on your way soon. if you can bear acupuncture it is great, but really to help you cope with the stress, choose something you like so it might be a massage or horse riding or a facial or a day out whatever is your thing do it and spoil yourself, it def releases some of the stress.

i am counting down the days until i start injecting...

em x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Hi Emma - I have my wobbles...  DH, too... Neither of us is in a good place right now... The pressure is definitely there... My best friend told me yesterday that I am becoming a bit obsessive about this... She decided to have no kids and I think I remind her of the ambivalence she felt whilst she went trough last fertile years and I thnink deep down she doesn't like to think about it.  So we are like from different planets at the mo...  It is a lonely road this... And I hope one day I will be able to look back and pat myself on the back and say --- you have done really well considering all the s*** and no understanding from friends and family and sometimes dh, too.  

I think I am getting my period on Wednesday or maybe even tomorrow...  
We are still debating whether to go for it  as the chances are so small...

Hello to everybody else and I hope you are all doing well....

Lots of love and hugs


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Hey Incon. Good to hear that if you're thinking about the donor route that you've found some ethical clinics. That's good news! I was just kicking thoughts of the alternatives around, and I don't know if I would go the donor route, like I said I think I'd find it a bit too alien. Even if we managed to have a biological child I'd still like to adopt at some point.



> Are you a pagan? that sounds very interesting to me and conjours up images which are probably all wrong like big bonfires and lots of celebrations.


We are indeed and we definately DO bonfires and lots of celebrating! It's heaps of fun, and often non-pagans come and join in. Plus I got to wear the most awesome witches hat last weekend at a witches ball. It's black satin, trimmed with geen and black feathers, and swathed with a veil with embroidered spiders. Totally cool and only a tenner in Glastonbury.


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi girls

Quick post from me as I am feeling sorry for myself today. It is a BFN for me . I did a HPT this morning and it said 'Not Pregnant'. Still no sign of AF though (cd 30)....she is playing an evil trick on me this month!!!

Anyway I am down....but certainly not out. Maybe next month  

We are now considering our options...whether to give natural/ mild IVF more of a chance or whether to go completely the other way and try ARGC  We will definitely be doing some sort of tx next month ...if not with Create then natural IUI with ARGC during the monitoring cycle so hopeful about that  

Thanks for all your support on my 2ww... really appreciate it 

Catch up properly tomorrow

Dixie xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Why not go for a properly stimulated ivf at the ARGC or the LIster?  It gives you a greater chance of success. I would not recommend IUIs - just a waste of money frankly in my experience and you go through the same motions of wait and heartbreak if it doesn't work...  Natural ivf gives you a greater chance of success than IUI.  And argc is not keen on doing iuis .  I never met anybody in the waiting room regardless of their age who did iuis.  

Good luck...  Even more wobbles after your post Dixie.


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello

Sorry to hear your news Dixie, hope you reach a decision on what to do next soon as that's a hard place to be too isn't it?

Julianne - sounds like loads of fun, love the sound of your hat!  

Incon    I have no idea how one is supposed to not obssess about this stuff?    Thinking of you on your path through this.

Emma -   to you too. Keep meaning to book a massage as I love those - must actually get around to doing it though!

Can you tell me at what point do you actually pay for the main treament, drugs etc at Create? When you go for an ivf induction are you expected to pay for everything then and take all the drugs away? I suppose you may not know the answer though if you have all done non stimulated cycles?

thanks
coughsweet


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hiya,

i am doing mild ivf so i have my drugs already. i got them at my induction but i havent paid yet. i think you have to pay everything before ec.

catch up later

em x


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Oh Dixie that's sad, but don't give up.  We have to get some BFP's on this thread soon!! It's a statistical certainty!


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hello!
Dixie, so sorry!   I have a friend who has a DD from IUI, again I think it is a cumulative success rate like natural IVF. I know if it had been an option for me then I would have tried it. Hope you make your mind up what you want to do soon.
I have thought long and hard about adoption for many years. My problem is not that I would be able to do it, but that I have my 2 boys in the equation now. I have no doubt that any child who needs to be adopted needs extra special time and attention, but I think that that would be too much stress to put my boys under. I have friends who have a beautiful DD adopted from Bulgaria. It is certainly something worth considering.
Hi to everyone else and good luck to those strating treatment!   
Love Prija


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

I am due to get my period today.  Nothing so far.  Having a wobble of the century... Don't feel good about natural cycle as it sounds just like IUI and I have had those before and they never worked... We haven't got the money for a fully stimulated cycle here, but could have it abroad and dh is reluctant to go abroad.  The Czech rep charges euro 1100 without drugs and the girls are all saying that the team is excellent... 

I think to proceed I should not feel this horrible and stressed out... I can't do 3 cycles...  I just wish my dh was a bit more proactive and took care of me at this difficult time.  He just buries his head in the sand...


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Inconceivable,
My DH buries his head in sand too and it makes things so hard doesn't it? Do you think you need more time to make your mind up? Another month won't hurt. Last year I rushed into 3rd IVF as I thought if it was positive, then I would be able to get over my ectopic. I spent the whole cycle on edge, with flash backs, panic attacks and worried about everything. I definitely was not ready and it did not surprise me that it was not successful. I know it is impossible to be completely laid back, but certainly in my case I believe that my mental state does affect the outcome. I know I keep saying this, but thinking sensibly, statistics mean nothing, treatment either works or it doesn't work and there really is nothing stopping you from having a successful outcome. Please be positive. I do really believe that if you are so unsure, take some time to decide. Do they offer you counselling at Create? I know it's all money, but maybe a one off counselling seeion would be money well spent.
Take care!
Love Prija


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hi Incon

not really anything I can say to make it better. Just letting you know someone out here   . Having PMS in itself doesn't help ones mood of course. 

I just put 1100 euro into currency converter - sounds an amazing price. Have you been investigating a lot on the abroadies threads then? 

Know what you mean about wanting a less ostrich-like DH. Mine is v angry at the moment - I told him last night I am finding it hard to speak to him about it all because he is so wound up. He said he wants a baby just as much as me but he also wants this situation to just all go away. It's hard not to feel alone with it. I appreciate it must be so much more stressful once you've done several tx cycles.

Hope you manage to come to a decision you feel comfortable with.

love coughsweet x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Thx Prija and coughsweet.  Much appreciated...

Will now try to eat sth and do some work... have a lot of marking to do...
feels like a hell hole all this...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hiya,

big hugs dixie, you've done great and all that you have gone through will prepare you better for the next time. Look after yourself.

I am having a wobble, not about the clinic, as really at the end of the day for my problems, its all the same thing i think. But maybe i am a bit too stressed to start this cycle. i really wanted it all under my belt and have a bit of closure (or morning sickness!) before christmas, but maybe i am rushing myself. maybe i should wait until the new year...i dont know will talk to dh (well dp actually as after 15 years he still hasnt married me!), its just the age thing, by the time you get to 40 it really feels like every month makes a difference... i dont know, advice please you guys. 

are you a teacher then incon?

wishing you all well, its beautiful weather in london.

xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Come on Emm - you are at least doing a stimulated cycle and it's more of a chance compared to the natural one.... ON the other hand, you may get pregnant naturally over Xmas due to being relaxed.  

Yes, a relatively recent convert to teaching.    Am working as a supply teacher at the mo and doing just one day a week -my choice - just to keep the cv up-to-date really and to try to have some touch with the outside world. It feels like living in a twilight zone really...

Am relieved that I am not the only one who waited a bit to have children.  I have been with Dh for 13 yrs, but we started trying when I was 35.  Unfortunatelly, were badly advised by the NHS and didn't go privately on time.  Just makes me wonder had I done my ivf at 36 or 37 maybe I would have made it...

Still haven't got af.  Due today... and both me and dh are having a wobble...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hiya,

I will def do another cycle, its just when....maybe i should wait until after christmas? need to decide pretty soon as af due any day now.

got reflexology tonight which is exciting.

i will never fall naturally as both tubes have been clipped so ivf the only route for me  

em x


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

incon, you musnt give yourself a hard time about waiting. i did about waiting until ds was 3 before i felt ready to try again and i spent lots of time thinking that if only i had tried sooner...but thats really destructive and doesnt change anything. we do things when they are right for us and there is a lot to be said for that. 

i feel self concious of my awful spelling and typing now teech!

em x


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

{{Incon}} 

Wow, we're all wobbling around all over the place!! Plus, most of us seem to have partners that are doing what I call 'the ostrich manoevre'.  It's very hard not to slap them when they bleat piteously that they want children just as much as we do but "they want the situation to go away".  Arrgghhhh!! Well it isn't, and it's a whole lot less fun for the half that has to go through the physical side of it!!!! Honestly, men are clueless sometimes.

I waited too.  I was ready for a baby at around 25, but realised 10 years later that (a) he was never going to marry me and (b) was rather pleased that no babies had 'happened along'.  Then I realised that I didn't love him and that he was a selfish bugger and I should have left a looooooooong time before I did.  It's my own fault for letting things go on as long as they did, but I'm glad I didn't have children with him as it wouldn't have been right.  So now I'm with the right man at the wrong time!!

Well nobody said it would be easy did they?  We just have to make the best of it and not beat ourselves up with coulda, woulda, shoulda scenarios.  I think wobbling is OK and it's good to acknowledge it, but we must all try and find our centre after the wobble, and our menfolk are going to have to be less pathetic and get with the programme I think.

I am woman, hear me roar!! (Can you tell I just came on?? I've been a basket case this week, just as well my man isn't hear to see it, lol.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Hello fellow wobblers, 

Thx for your posts, good wishes and thoughts. 

Still no af for me,which is great as I don't have to make any decisions as yet.  Thinking of ringing Geeta to ask her whether I can have a mildly stimulated cycle i/o natural to try to produce say 2 follies as this will be my last cycle.  What do you guys think?  She said when I had my scan I should have a natural and then we will see... But I don't think I can put myself through two of these... ie one natural and then maybe medicated...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

I think you should def ask her, ring her now.

my af here.....here goes, fasten your belts i'm on the ride.

have decided to go for it this month as some dear ones have pointed out i really wont feel any less stressed about it in 3 months time.

catch up in more detail later.

em x


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

just booked my day 8 scan at harley street for next weds.


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hey Wobblers!! Hope it was not all my miserable posts that gave you the wobbles! Sorry if it was . For a positive story from Create look at Welshbirds profile...she had three IVFs elsewhere but got preggers with Create on her fourth attempt  

Em: It is exciting that you have started tx   Sending you loads of   

Incon - Agree that doing two cycles (natural and then mild) will be hard so hope Geeta says you can do mildly medicated first. I made the mistake of thinking I would be able to do three natural cycles before moving onto medicated...but the emotional side of it is just too much so we are probably going to take your advice and do a medicated IVF at ARGC.

I am still waiting for AF so we can try. Cant wait!

Hi to Julianne, Prija and Coughsweet  


 
Dixie xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Welshbird was on a medicated cycle and produced 3 eggs  and I think they all fertilised so that gives one a much better chance.  I have no hope in producing 3, but was thinking if I can get two it would be great as opposed to just one...  

If my ovaries were working properly I don't think I would bother with natural cycles frankly... .  It's better to do either mildly stimulated or proper ivf to increase the chances.. Natural ones are not much better from IUIs.  Such slim chances and the stress is the same.  If I knew of the psychological toll it would take I would have never agreed to IUIs in the first place.  It just took a lot out of me psychologically.  I would have gone for the GIFT as the UCH barred me from ivf due to slightly elevated fsh and if that were negative then I would have moved clinics much sooner.  But it's all easy in retrospect. 

Dixie - I think I would go for sth stronger if I were you.  And don't bother and waste time, emotions, and money on IUIs.  A month of monitoring will go quickly.  And they are v. thorough at the ARGC.  Shame it didn't work for me...It is stressful, though, during the two wks of stimms as you have to go to the clinic on a daily basis to get your bloods done.  That's is stressful, too especially if you don't get a bfp at the end of so much work...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hiya,

hey dixie, you sound in good spirits.it wasn't you that made us wobble i'm just wobbly by nature! Maybe go and have a look at  the lister as well, they have a good reputation (i went there) and it will cost you slightly less and slightly less difficult regime, its worth having a look as an alternative to argc

Incon, you could well produce 3, you never know. you really never know. are you going to ring geeta and ask?

i'm going to look for welshbirds profile right now.

x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

I left a message with Lee and no response thus far... 

It would be interesting to see what I would produce if was mildly stimulated.  Maybe it would still be only 1 but it may be worth a go otherwise I will never know...


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hey

Em- yeah I have managed to pick myself up over the last few days and realised that this is just one hurdle....and you just never ever know...next time it could be us!   So want to try again asap. Would really like to try the Lister as I have heard good things about it but have not even had an initial consultation whereas with the ARGC I had the initial consultation and they said I could start straight away. (As you can see patience is not a virtue!!) Hope you found welshbirds profile- and hope it made you feel   

Incon- I think the only reason we are considering IUI during the monitoring cycle is because DH has very variable sperm results (over eight sperm tests- some normal, but five with low morphology as low as 1%...and always extremely elevated leucocytes) so this could be affecting our chances (even though the nhs consultant doesnt think it would make any difference ) and IUI might just work and save me the hassle of doing a full IVF. The extra cost for the IUI during the monitoring cycle is £500 but when you think what you end up paying at the ARGC this is just a fraction of the cost. We have been saving for the last four years for a deposit to move into a house but have now decided we are going to use that for tx! 

I hope Lee gets back to you soon..... keep us posted

x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Dixie - if this happens with your dh's sperm then IUI may not be suitable for you two..Don't forget that a medicated IUI costs the same as natural IVF and you have got a much better chance with the natural ivf, which you have just had.  My ius were about £1200 a go, so not cheap at all for what it is.  There is not much difference from having timed sex frankly with OPK.  I thnik if your ovaries are functioning fine have a go at mildly stimulated ivf like Welshie did and see what happens.  It will still cost you a lot less than either argc or the lister.  ARGC is v. v. expensive.  They ivariably want you to do a hysteroscopy especially if you have had treatments elsewhere, which is 1k.  Medication is v. expensive,too and you don't get a chance to buy elsewhere as they say they may need to change it. Although they only changed it once for me, but it kind of forces you to buy from them. Don't know if the reason is medical or commercial tbh.  I paid 8k for my cycle on full stimms (bloods alone were 1.5k). This is without hysteroscopy...  Altogether it cost  me 10k.  I made enquiries at the LIster and ivf on full stimms would have cost me 6-6.5k.  So there is quite a difference.  
Good luck whatever you decide.  

Anyhoo .... no af for me yet... No call either...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

any news incon..?

x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

No news - no call, no af - 2 days late now...


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi,
Just wanted to wish you luck with the start of treatment Emma!
Love to all!
Prija


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

One complaint we all seem to have with Create is the contact difficulties.  I've been waiting for Lee to call me with our results for over a week now.  I've had to prompt them 3 or 4 times and still no call.   She's supposed to call AGAIN today, but nothing as yet.  I'm getting hacked off with it.  They wanted me to book in for an induction instead, and I was like "woah there nellie! I just want to know how the land lies!"  Especially before I stump up another £100 - which they still haven't told me about, and I wouldn't know if I hadn't read it here.

They really don't seem geared up for people that want to take things slowly - although I think that's true of every clinic.  I really do think there should be a follow-up consultation with councelling offered before that all-important first step on the IVF cycling rollercoaster.  We haven't even had the results for our bloods or the semen count, how can we possibly make an informed decision?  Madness.

Incon, I'd try and go for a mild IVF cycle if you can, like you said two is better than one.  I wonder why they are pushing you towards an entirely natural cycle?  There must be a reason, but you need to talk it through properly with Geeta.


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

thanks!

first injection tonight, and dh is out at a gig so have had to ask a friend round to do it.

i think create have too many clients and the pound signs are flashing in front of thier eyes. mind you it is the same with any clinic - i just think they need to step up their game a little bit if they want to keep people coming back.

i guess no news then incon?

x


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Lots and lots of luck Emma!!  

I think you are totally right....they are getting really busy and sometimes cant give personal attention....i cant have my follow up appointment with Geeta until 19th November....ggggrrrrr!

Anyway lots of positive thoughts for this tx   
ps: check out meercat71 profile if you get a chance  

xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Julianne - There is a reason, which is my poor antral follicle count... 
but if I don't try I won't know.  

I made an app for a tel consultation for 16 hrs tomorrow... Will see whether she calls.  Might go in person there if I get my period tomorrow...as it would be the 2nd day... then...
I wish I had grounds for more hope.  It would be lovely... It's heartbreaking enough to get a negative even when you have got good chances, but it's v. hard going when you know your chances are slim.  

Good luck Emma with the first jab...  Fingers crossed.  

Geeta has stretched herself thin a bit.  She still works for the NHS and has two clinics she runs, which is a bit much even if she had the two private clinics only...

Dixie - good luck with your decision making.  
Julianne - I think you did well not to pay them for your ivf induction until you make your decision, otherwise it's a wasted £100.  

V. bad day for concentration here...


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Well, well.  I finally got the call from Lee and she was a bit sharp and aggressive - which I'd already been warned she could be.  Not even an apology for not getting back to me on the previous occasionas when she was supposed to.  One of us on the London Girls TTC thread was so upset with Lee's attitude that she went to the owner of the Co. and he gave her a wapping discount on her next cycle!  She was trying to push me into doing the Induction and I wasn't having any of it.  She then made a big fuss that I "didn't go through them" for the bloodwork.  She made it sound like I went careering off to any old place like a rogue gunslinger!  As it was Philippa who did the letter to my GP at Geeta's request, I have no idea why Lee is getting uppity about it.  Maybe she gets a cut if you do it the expense way through them!!  


The upshot is that they don't want to give you your results without doing the Induction.  I guess they're worried you'll go to a different clinic for your cycle and they want to keep you hooked on at Create.  Basically, having had my *ahem* 'results' I'm none the wiser.  I had to drag it out of her that my hormone levels are "fine".  That was it, no further embellishment.  She didn't even talk about the scan results (although the Prof was great and answered my questions - which I'm very glad I asked now!)  And she wouldn't even tell me the semen analysis results!  She was surprised I hadn't received the results from HCA (but why would I, when it was requested by Create in the first place? It's not like I'd know what I'm looking at!)  She said she'd ask for a copy to be sent to me with Geeta making notes on the bottom or something.  Oh very professional....

I'm not impressed.  Add to that, HCA (the semen analysis clinic close by) have invoiced us directly for the analysis - another fiver on top of the price quoted.  Seeing as we paid on the day I'm rather hacked off with it.  Rich told me that he and the ex used the same clinic last time and they pulled exactly the same stunt.  So watch out for them and make sure you keep your receipts safe.

Anyone else feeling like a chicken with it's bottom up in the air ready for the plucking?  This profiteering from people's difficulties in having a baby is really ******* me off.  I'm kind of ready to walk away from the whole thing and to hell with it.


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello  

Feel a bit disheartened reading that people are having trouble with the clinic. I have already had enough trouble with Exeter. So far I have not found Create too bad - just busy. I am ready to get on and do some treatment rather than spend any more time going   on the waiting list at Exeter which has kept growing rather than reducing!

Hope things go better for you Julianne - sounds like a really frustrating position you are in to begin with so you don't need any more stress.

Incon - hope your phone call comes through - I gave up on being phoned back the other day but they did eventually at about 7pm - much to my surprise as I would have thought they'd have all gone home by then.

 with the jabbing Emma

Dixie - hope you're getting somewhere with the decision making

 to all
love coughsweet x


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

Hiya,

Sorry to hear about your experinece julianne. its hard. I hate the fact that even though we are paying you still feel like you are at an overstretched / underfunded nhs clinic.

To be fair to create apart from having a bit of an nhs mindset i think that a lot of clinics are similra in waiting times, attitude to clients (they seem to very easily forget that this is one of the scariest and worrying times of lives) and extras popping on the bill at any time. When i was thinking about going to argc i spoke to afriend who had been there and i was talkinh about all the things i didnt like the sound of the clinic and she said you just have to go with it, you kind of have to surrender yourself to it a bit. which is where i am at now. i think i only have 1 more appointment at wimbledon and then EC and ET and harley street (all being well) and then i am on my way. goodbye create, hello pregnancy (notice the pma) and i can put up with it until then.

I do think you are right to keep asking questiosn though, this process makes us so passive, we just accept what they say to us and we need to have faith in our instinct and bodies too.

I also think that we should make formal complaints, they cant get better if they dont knwo how we all feel. i might write them a letter, i have alreday complained about waiting times.

One question i would like answered - maybe incon or dixie can answer. geeta said that not down regging me was the way to go, but surley the bureslin i am on is down regging me? dixie did you have that and where you better than me at asking what it was for or incon you know a lot about this stuff, what do you think?

two injections tonight aaargh.

i love this thread, it is small enough for me to keep up with everyone, so a big hug and hello to coughsweet, incon, prija,julianne, dixie. xxxxx


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi girls

Julianne- sorry that you are feeling frustrated with Create. I know sometimes Lee can be quite 'to the point' shall we say. I have a feeling she is like this because she is under so much pressure because they are short-staffed. Most times my calls have been returned by her at 7pm even on a friday. There is also another nurse there called Amina who is a lot more gentle and would be very informative and sensitive when returning calls. However she was not always there.... i think she only works part-time. Have you asked if Geeta can give you a call to discuss where you go from here? I think maybe this would be better because I dont think she would try and push you into the induction....well I hope not anyway. 

I think that when I was having my scans I felt very confident with Create because I was seeing the Prof and he is really great....he explains exactly what he is seeing and I would always raise any concerns with him during the scan. He would then try and look into them and discuss with Geeta (over the phone) there and then before getting back to me. I think he is a very genuine man. And the LFC were really good for EC and ET. I had EC on thursday and was really concerned that my lining would not be thick enough for ET on saturday (because my last scan on the monday showed it was only 6.75mm). First thing on friday morning I had difficulty getting through to Amina/Lee because they were with patients so rang the LFC who answered immediately and assured me that if I was worried about it then they would check my lining before ET. Lee rang me back Friday at 7pm and told me the same thing.....but I would have spent the whole of friday worrying if I hadnt already spoken to the LFC. So I definitely think Create need to look into getting more staff. 

Emma- I didnt take bureslin or anything for that matter so dont know too much about it but you can call them and ask if you are not sure. Think they will get back to you and explain (even if it is 7pm!!) I was definitely good at asking questions... i would ring and leave message after message for Amina/Lee!!! I wanted to understand each and every decision being made for my treatment so would call....got used to the evening return calls!
How was your injection last night? 
Good luck for your two injections tonight!! Im loving the PMA by the way   .    

My AF came yesterday (1st time I've been pleased to see her!!) and I am now on the monitoring cycle at ARGC. If I dont need immune treatment TX will be in December. If I do then I am going to wait to do the ARGC treatment until March and try mildly stimulated with Create in December. Either way I am having TX in December so hoping for some good news in the New Year  

Hi to all the other girls   

Dixie x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sorry I have been awol, which is unusual for an addict like me.  Had a day from hell yesterday bcs of the clinic... Having pestered them for days to switch onto a medicated protocol, I finally made some progress yesterday.  It was agreed at 3 o'clock that they will switch me onto another protocol.  I then sent my dh to collect the drugs at the Harley St clinic as I was teaching yesterday all day only for him to be turned away and to be told that they issue drugs  at the Raynes Park clinic only... So, when I got a call from my dh that he didn't get anywhere, I was fuming.  I made a point of checking that  it's ok for him to go to harley st and was told that it was fine. 

Lee told him that I can either proceed with the natural cycle or wait for the next month.  I managed to get through to dr Khan and she left me on hold forever and my funds on mobile ran out as i have pay as you go so I could not ring back.. When I recharged my phone I had to call them every 5 mins until they finally picked the phone up...I was doing this for a whole hour.  So, I went to Raynes Park and collected the meds at the end.  Finally came home at 9 pm.    Geeta was trying to dissuade me from doing the cycle bcs of the rushing and the stress... As if this kind of stress doesn't affect people at all...  Forgot to say that they were waiting for me till 7.30 so that I could collect the stuff.  They told my dh when he turned up at the Harley st that he could go to Raynes park if he could make it by 17.00 hr, which gave him about 20 mins.  And yes I was at times almost rude and told dr Khan in no uncertain terms that I could easily do without her induction when she wanted to postpone my cycle in order to do another bleeding induction...

As our v. good friends are emmigrating this wkd we went to their leaving party and stayed till 4 am.  I even had a glass of wine, what the hell.... and dh had 5 pints... Worried about spermies now...

I also got buserelin and don't know what it's for and gonal f 150.  Am to start tonight. Have got a nasty cold on top of everything else...Was a day from hell and I felt like a drug addict rushin around London in order to get a fix... my fertility drugs...

Am a woman on a mission...  

Emma - how was your buserelin .... If I have remembered correctly I do the bus jab first in the first day and then from then onwards it's bus + gonal f... Will google to see what the bus is for...

Hugs to everybody.... 
PS I think they are aware of ff friends.  I have certainly mentioned it a few times....


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hi incon,

i missed you yesterday! sounds like you had a right palava. i assume af has shown her face then?

burserlin between 7pm and 9pm on day 2 of your cycle, then every night at exactly the same time so if 7.21 on the first night must be 7.21 on subsequent nights. fsh from day 3 of your cycle half an hour either side of your burselin jab.

you're my cycle buddy now! x

i'm worrying about sperm too, dh been smoking more tha usual...oh well we're on our way now.

right just relax now, you dont have to have anyhting to do with the clinic for a week so just focus on making a juicy egg or two or three.

hello all, em

xxx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Blimey Incon, what a helluva day!  Are you OK and calmed down a bit now?  I wouldn't worry about the party, it was probably the best thing for you at the end of the day - let your hair down and all that.  

Well here's a turn-up for the books - Dr Khan rang me today.  I've never had contact with her before and it was completely unprompted from my end.  She wanted to reassure me about my hormone levels (although that word "fine" was used again!)  So I don't know if Lee had second thoughts and asked her to call...? They're still hopeless though, I asked about the semen analysis and they still don't know if they've got the results or not..... and they wonder why we get ****** off with them!

I did tell her that we weren't ready for induction (especially as nobody has any friggin idea about sperm quality!) and gave her some history on the 'man wobble' situation.  She said she'd speak to Geeta and see what could be arranged.  I asked about counselling and she sounded astonished at the thought....

Go figure, as my american friends would say.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Julianne - dr Khan gets on my nerves, I don't know why... She told me that I have got 20% chance which is ridiculous really, as I am perfectly aware that I virtually get a tiny, tiny chance bordering on miracle... So, it annoys me when people throw these figures at me... I did perfectly well without her induction as there are clear instructions that come with the meds and besides I have done injections before so I learned nothing new from her induction... I have also been chasing them for my dh's sperm sample and it's been more than 3 wks now and still no joy... I think they are overstretched big time...

I have also worked out that my EC is likely to be on Saturday which is going to cost me £500 extra.  A bit unluckly...

Have just had a row with my mum who told me that I can't get pregnant bcs i had an abortion 15 yrs ago and I am now being punished for it... Isn't that so wonderfully supportive ?  

Emm - hope you are coping well... I have been a bit emotional in the past few days...

It would be so wonderful to get a miracle at the end... but not so likely...


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Wow, that's harsh.  Even when you know something is crap, it still hurts when it comes from your mum.

So what's with them not chasing up on the semen analysis?  It's kind of important...  

All we can do is send you hugs, and hope you don't wobble too badly.


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hi incon,

That is very unkind of your mum and you know she is wrong dont you? I am so sorry she is not being more supportive. 

just try and welcome those drugs into your body and picture those juicy ripe follies they are helping to make. you are on your way and you have every chance. i am thinking of you lots. have missed you on the message board the past few days. 

i am bearing up, i feel better now i have actually started. my scan is on wednesday so until then i will try and stay positive.

hey julianne, sounds like you are getting somewhere with create. i do hope they read this message board, they could learn a lot on how to improve their service.

which one is dr khan, i dont know if i have met her? is she the woman that does the inductions?

em x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Hi Emma 

Good luck for your scan... Mine is on Thursday... 

Dr Khan does the induction...

Julianne, - hope you start your treatment soon...

Thx girls for your messages...  Must get myself into a more positive frame of mind>  Maybe I get a nice surprise on Thur... Had a dream last night that I had two lovely embies... and was trying to wake up my dh to tell him that and he then woke me up to tell me I was dreaming... Weird....


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello
just checking in. Sounds like everyone is moving forward despite it being a bit of a battle   

Incon - I hope you get a nice surprise too. Can't believe your Mum said something that unkind. I am in the same kind of position having had a termination when I was much younger - it's hard enough to live with without getting someone else's two pennies worth! I am going on Thurs for an appt at 2pm - when is yours?  

Emma - hope scan all good tomorrow  

Julianne - sounds like you are getting somewhere. Would be interested to know what happens about the counselling there.

Dixie - hope monitoring cycle going ok

love to all
coughsweet x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Hello troops,

I am in at 9.30.  Emma - good to hear you are doing well...  Have to force myself with drinking water as am not v. good at it... 

Cougsweet - good luck for Thur...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hello fellow wobblers,

have just realised that i have booked my scan for the wrong day - its a bit confusing from create as they have day 1 of your cycle and day 1 of your meds. scan is supposed to be day 8 of meds and i have booked it for day 8 of cycle (1 day early). i'm not going to change it though as i have arranged child care and everything so will just tell the prof the situuation. 

hope you feeling better today incon, what doesnt kill us can only make us stronger. 
is this your last cycle, you were thinking about lots of options before?

had a panic about the drugs last night and what they must be doing to me, i try to avoid horror stories but saw one last night by accident so felt very anxious for a bit. recovering now though.

not doing too bad on the water altough its the tea i miss, i am such an addict but try to onloy have 1 cup a day while cycling. man the headaches have been unbearable, coming off caffeine is hard.

hooray for your appointment coughsweet, i look forward to your feedback.

julianne, i was under the impression they had to offer counselling as part of thier hfea licence? at the lister there was a lovely woman and it was all free. (£2k more to cyle though)

thinking of you dixie, you are well on your way to your next cycle now, wherever it is.

hello prija if you are out there.

xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

My scan is on day 6.  Day 8 is on Saturday and they wanted me to do Friday which I couldn't do, hence I have made my app for Thur, which is day 6.  How much water are you taking... I am averaging 1 litre a day... + milk at least 1/2 litre... 

Argc also don't offer counselling, nor do the UCH.  I wish I had cycled at the LIster as I originally planned i/o uch really... At least I would have been treated at 39 as opposed to 40 for the first ivf... 

I think it's my last cycle as there is hardly any potential left in my ovaries.. ONly had 2 antral follicles. 
Am so mad when I think how it could have been so different as had 8 antrals at the UCH when I started.  Not many, but could have had a chance... if at the right place... But then, don't know why this was meant to happen for me like this...


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Girls,
Good luck with all your scans etc over the next few days. Inconceivable, UCH were def offering one counselling session included in treatment when I was last there. In 2003, they insisted I had counselling between my fresh and frozen cycle due to my fragile state of mind. I think it did me good to get things off my chest as I had no support at the time.
Hope you are all keeping your chins up!
Love Prija


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

No counselling when I was there.  Yes, they offered it at different premises for £ 50 a session and this was in Islington so nothing on the premises and nothing for free.  Not exactly convenient for people either...bcs for that kind of money we can all get counselling closer to home... UCH is crap in my books as they didn't allow me to cycle and I wasted a whole year before I got my first ivf only bcs they barred me in the first instance. Wish they had just told me to go elsewhere as there were places who were willing to treat me.  I just didn't know they existed at the time... V. high price for me...1 year of fertility lost ...


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Inconceivable,
Sorry you feel like that but I have UCH to thank for my little boy! Anyway I think it's time to forget the bad things and hopefully move on to better. Good luck to all in the next few days.
Love Prija


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Well, I suppose if people get pregnant they like the clinic and if they don't then they find faults.  I would still say that the ARGC is much better than the uch even if I was unsuccessful there... At least they took their chance on me... Regretfully I can't change the past...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hello everyone.

not great news here i am afraid. really nothing going on on my ovaries, about 4 or 5 follies but they are all less than 5mm when the prof would have expected around 12-15mm at this stage of my cycle.

its frustrating as when i had my booking in scan with geeta it all looked so good,  much muh better than after a week of drugs whne you would have expected it look better still. the drugs obviously do not agree with me. the prof rang mrs nargund and she suggested incresing my dose. but i am not going down that road. i have done the maximum dose thing and it doesnt work for me. i think i should never have had bureselin, it turns my ovaries off and then they dont really work. 

its good i had that gyaeny scan at the beginning as i know whats going on is basically alright and the drugs are making it not alright.

i'm not sure what to do next. i am going to stay on 150 gonal f and then i have another scan booked in for friday. if everything looks the same i think i will abandon the  cycle. maybe look at natural ivf in the new year as i will have to wait 3 months for these crappy drugs to get out of my system. what a waste of time.

anyway its not def as i need to caht to dh tonight.

feel disappointed as i really wanted a bit of closure by christmas but looks like i will have to keep this wound open for a few months more.

hope you are all good. good luck tomorrow coughsweet and incon

hows monitored cycle dixie?

hey prija

em xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Hi Emma 

If you reacted like that to buserelin I am probably going to have a right disaster as my scan wasn't brilliant to start with.  ONly two antrals... Maybe I should have stuck with my natural cycle but as you I wanted to maximise my chances and have some closure...

Gosh I always seem to make wrong decisions... My scan is tomorrow and I am probably going to have just one follie, whcih buserelin is going to make small...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

it cant be like that for evryone otherwise they wouldnt use it...


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Have just talked to dh  and I am not going to take buserelin tonight.  Then I would have just 4 days of damage as my scan is on day 6.  I also don't take to drugs well.  My 2 follies were 10-15 mm when I did my scan.  It sounds Emma that you have a good follie count but the size is worrying...  I wonder how other people react...

Am gutted to hear this... If I have just one follie - I will have lost over £1000 for nothing...+ drugs... That means I could have done 2 cycles as opposed to one.  ****...


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hey Em

So sorry it wasnt good news  . That is really frustrating.... I really hope that things look better at your scan on friday.  

I wonder why Geeta wanted to up your dose when clearly the drugs are making things go a bit wrong.....surely reducing or stopping would be better but then I am no expert....what did the Prof say?

I guess it is good that you know that without drugs your system works better....but really annoying that you might have to wait three months to try natural IVF. Really hoping things turn around for you by friday  

Incon and Coughsweet- lots of luck for tomorrow... will be thinking of you. Hope all goes well 

Hi to Prija and Julianne  

I am on monitoring cycle....just waiting for my mid-cycle scan next monday. Not sure if we can try naturally this month because I am having a hysteroscopy and dont know when in this cycle it will be. Have called ARGC to try and find out if we can as otherwise I feel so aimless this month.....usually cant wait till mid-cycle so we can try because you just never know right!

Lots of positive hugs and vibes   

Dixie xx


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello
sorry to hear things didn't go well Emma  

I haven't got a clue about the drugs and what does what so I guess I will be on a steep learning curve. Will post when I get back...

Good luck for tomorrow Incon  

Hi Prija, Dixie and Julianne  

thanks for the good wishes  

coughsweet x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

I left a message on their pager that I would like to skip buserelin tonight.. Still no reply... I am thinking of skipping it anyway... 

I don't know why I was given downregulating drug when I am a poor responder anyway... Doesn't make sense and I didn't quesiton it as it was all arranged last minute...  If they don't respond to my message and I have a crap response tomorrow I am not going to be happy at alll....  

Coughsweet.. - what are your plans at the mo?  Are you proceeding with the Create....


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Hello everyone...

Just wanted to introduce myself here as I am another Create Health, low dose person. Just had egg collection yesterday and awaiting instruction for ET on Friday. 

So far I have found them far more personable and intimate than the other clinics, though not fautless. I'd be interested to hear more about what had drawn all over you to Create Health?


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hello everyone,

incon - dont rush into not taking your bureselin because of some chat room diagnosis by me. we are all different and i am sure they would not prescribe it if they thought it was not the right thing. it may turn out that it was not the right thing for me, but you could be entirely different. maybe wait until you have your scan tomorrow before you make any desicions.

look forward to your feedback coughsweet and i hope it goes well for you.

hello sally, welcome to our little create band. congratulations on your ec. what dose where you on and how many eggs did they collect?

hugs to everyone else.

xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

I reduced my dose to 0.2 just in case ...As I don't react to drugs well, I fear the same scenario.. ONly mine maybe worse bcs I had two follicles to start with.  Are you going to carry on stimming?  I would be happy if I had 5.  I wouldn't mind stimming for longer as 5 is a good number...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

i will stay on 150 until my scan on friday and if everything has not drastically improved i will stop the cycle. 5 may be a good number but they are half the size they should be so they are never going to be great quality and i certainly wont be working with my natural cycle as i will have to stimm for days and days.

will speak to mrs nargund tomorrow and scan on friday and decide from there.

good luck tomorrow


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Hello gang, 

I had  2 ok size follies 10. 46 mm + 10. 67 mm + 1 small one of 5mm.  This is the same quantity that I had on 600 IU + 100 mg of clomid which shows that the quantity of drugs doesn't make a difference... If anything my 3d follie on my fully stimulated ivf wasn't even there on day 6.  I paid 10k for that cycle, so could have done 3 - 4 cycles with Geeta for the same money...

I told the dr about reducing the dose of buserelin to 0.2 and he told me off and told me that I may have compromised the cycle....  Told me to go back to 0.5 buserelin and that the dr will call me today... Now this is totally unexpected as I was prepared to xl the cycle this morning...Also these two follies are from my dead ovary not the functioning one ... And my working ovary produced the crappy small folly... How is this possible?  Now either the prof can't tell left from right or I am having two miracle follies developing... Hopefully they are still there on Mondayl....

Living in hope now.... I may actually have two embies, which would be fantastic...


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hey Incon

That is really good news! So pleased for you ...those follies seem a really good size for this stage   

Lots and lots of     for your follies. Hope they grow nice and strong for monday.

We are due a BFP on this thread ...so heres hoping   

Dixe x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Thx Dixie...How are things at the ARGC?


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Yeah....just on monitoring cycle so a bit of waiting around at the mo. Mid cycle scan is on monday. Have decided to try naturally even though starting the nasal spray towards end of this cycle. The general consensus is that the nasal spray does not affect a pregnancy so even if I were to get pregnant (it is pretty unlikely but i am still hoping ) then should be okay


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

So, I take it you are on an LP?  Are  you happy with the clinic?  There will be a lot of personal attention which will make a difference to the Create.  You will pay handsomely for the privilege, though... The girls will call you on a daily basis and let you know about the blood results.  I never understood much, but was always sitting by the phone expecting their call...  I think psychologically you feel taken care of...  Though, I did find the daily bloods a bit much and thought that every second day would have achieved the same... Hope it works for you... Fingers crossed


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

ladies......

I have to say that if you are taking buserilin (sp) at the same time as your gonal f/puregon. it is not for downregging, it is to stop you ovulating early!

I really really really would not stop taking drugs mid cycle without consulting you DR.

Debs
xxx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Thx Fidget... Wish you wrote last night.  The deed is done... I reduced the dose but didn't skip it altogether... Not likely to ovulate with folly size of 10... If it were 16 + I guess it would be way too risky.  Thx for the info, though.  I thought it was a downregging drug and was afraid it would supress me too much.. Too bad that the dr didn't call me to calm me down in spite of my messages... as I was panicking yesterday...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hi all,

oh incon well done, now maybe you will stop panicking and wait and see what is around the corner, and no more self prescribing either. despite my misgivings i am still taking my bureselin and will continue to do so until advised otherwise. i amy ask for a different protocol next time but you have to go with each cycle.

i was told today that there is no chance of me talking to mrs nargund today or tomorrow, which is a shame as i obviously have to make some desicions in which her advice would be needed. its tough going that clinic.

my scan is first thing tomorrow and i will be interested to see if anything has developed...who knows i can only wait and see.

hello dixie, good to hear from you. have you been taking things easy or are you busy with life at the moment?

coughsweet, i'm waiting for you to report back, i do hope it went well today.

forgot to mention that i saw lemar and his girlfriend in the clinic yesterday! they were having a 3d ultrasound on their baby. sweet.

how are you julianne, any developments on your side?

xx


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Hello everyone, and to answer your question hopeful Emma...

Both IVF's were short protocol (.5 busserlian, 150 FSH.) The first time I produced thirteen eggs, out of which eight fertilized, and six went to blast. They put back three. I had a BFN.

Mrs. Nargund et al were worried that I was in danger of overstimulating so this time they slowed down my FSH at the end of the ten days and I had considerably less of it than before...therefore I only produced nine eggs. The sperm quality wasn't as good this time so they did ICSI. Seven of them fertilized. 

Just spoken to the lab and they've recommended we go for blasts on Sunday. Six of the embryos are at eight cells, one at four cells. 

The thing I'm dithering on is whether to do acupuncture or not...did it the last time but have been reading these reports that it can actually be harmful....any ideas?


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Hey Sally, welcome to the Create Wobblers thread  The more the merrier!



> how are you julianne, any developments on your side?


Well of course Dr Khan hasn't bothered to get back to me. Figures. I guess I'll have to chase it 3 million times before finally knowing whether they even have the results we're missing. The other half is very worried about this lack of.....care....with people's files and results. He is alarmed that if they can't even keep people's files in order, then how do you know if the right sperm is being put with the right egg, which is then implanted in the right womb! I did explain that they don't do clinical procedures, but he does have a point. It is worrying how disorganised and chaotic they are. This is an area where procedures should be tickety-boo and followed to the letter. Errors mean unimaginable heartbreak.

It's a month since he had his test and they don't even know if they've got the results yet. How pants is that?


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello
my what a lot of messages have gone on here since I last looked!

Welcome Sally   - nice to hear from another Create person. That's loads of eggs - I didn't know they ever took them to blastocyst at LFC.   with your  

Julianne - that is really pants - I'm not surprised your DP is unimpressed. Hope you get the results soon

Incon - hope things continue well with the 2 follies

Dixie - hope monitoring going along ok

Prija - hello

Emma - hope it's good news on the scan front today

Well, I was expecting the usual long wait at the clinic yesterday - and what do you know there was no wait at all and they were on time! It looks like all is ok for me to do a cycle when next AF appears (although they did say they would speak to Geeta for final say on that). So I have had my induction - which got me a bit flustered looking at all those needles - and am waiting to go really.
All feels a bit scary and I don't know whether to be hopeful or stop myself being too hopeful - but I guess neither does anyone else on FF so am in right place! Must admit I had a moment when all that money started flying out of my bank account too!

I am sooo glad it's Friday and the weekend - all this takes it out of you doesn't it?
love coughsweet x


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hello everyone,

hi coughsweet, oh i am very excited for you. i knwo its expensive and scary but very exciting too, you are on your way to trying for a baby! did you have a scan and what protocol are you on, is it mild ivf? make sure you get lots of rest and relaxing in preperation for the joureny ahead, eat good and laugh as often as you can. when are you expecting af?

hi sally, sounds like you have got the most amazing ovaries, well done! i feel really positive for you. I think the resarch about acupuncture not working is mis leading...if it is the one i am thinking of.. it said that women who used alternative therapies were less likely to conceive using ivf than women who didnt. but it may just be that women who use these therapies are more likely to be older and/ or trying for longer so statiscally less likely to conceive anyway, not becuse of any therapies. take me as an example with my first round of ivf i  didnt even think about trying any of that, i didnt know about it really, but this time around i knew i was older so i looked into all of it and tried it. so, in my opinion, i am less likely to conceive becuse of my age not becuse of acupuncture...gosh i hope that makes sense. i guess the best thing to do is to find the actual piece of reserch on the web and read it through and make your own conclusions. too often with these things we get to see the media spin on them and it is just that, spin. 

i will certainly be having it this time.

oh julianne, i am so sorry, this is very hard isnt it? I agree you with you, the last thing you want an ivf clinic to be is scatty and unprofessional and unfortunately they are both. You are right, they do not do clinical prodecures (thank goodness). its not too late to look at other clinics if you feel that is the way to go. i am trying to close my mind to thier inefficency as i am mid cycle and keep telling myself that actually is mine and dh's bodies that are going to do the hard part and that is the same wherever you go. so i'm just goign with it. also lfc where they do the ec and et has had lots of good things said about them on here. also those tests belong to you, so ask them to fax copies over to you today, you paid for them and they are yours. 

My experience at harley street is a bit better than raynes park, its a bit calmer.

hi incon, hpe you are nurturing those follies.

hey miss dixie.

things are looking a bit better for me, at my scan this morning my follies had grown quite a lot, they are still small but things are def going on in there. i lost track of how many, not because there are loads but because they were hard to see for an ebarrasing reason which is probably tmi for the board so i wont go into it!

so now the prof says no need to increase dose and he will re scan me on monday, so come on you follies keep growing, please.

I am at work today but really looking forward to the weekend too...

hugs to you all.

em xx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

all looking good them Emma


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Hello troops,  
Emma - defo good news... Why couldn't he see the follies? Don't get it.  Do tell us...  

Julianne - MY dh still hasn't got his results either and we did a month ago and they don't seem to have a clue where they are... They just keep saying they will chase it up...  

Coughsweet =  good luck... The Create is cheaper than any other fertility clinic... The argc costs from 8k onwards per cycle... People usually pay btrw 10-12k.  So you can do a lot of cycles at Geeta's for that kind of money....The lister is I think about 6-7 k.  Emma would have a better idea.... So, think positive...!  At least it's affordable compared to other places...

Sally - you are a super chick with super ovaries...  Gosh.... It would take me a whole year to make so many eggs ...Good luck on your 2ww... You don't have PCOS or anything like that?  Honestly, it's amazing to get so many eggs on such a small dose of medication....You would have 50 on 600 iui by the sound of it... Fingers crossed on your 2 ww.  I think you are onto a winner with blasts... Well-done... 

I am drinking loads of water which is unusual for me but I have to... I feel constantly thirsty... I hope I won't ovulate before Monday as a lot of CM today...

We will definitely have some BFPs on this thread before Xmas methinks...


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Just to say I've been looking over everyone's stories and I wish you all luck...exciting for you Coughsweet (and you do get used to the needles)...and pleased things are looking better for you Emma!

Inconceivable - I think it's appalling what your mother has said to you, absolutely appalling! Abortion is a very very personal issue and not for others to moralize about! (Having had one or two myself...)

Embryo transfer tomorrow.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Fingers crossed for you Sally - is it a 5 day transfer then... Sorry you may have mentioned it already....


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Day five transfer it is! I'm to ring them in the morning to confirm. Will keep you all posted!!

XS


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## SWLJules (Oct 21, 2007)

Hi everyone,

I registered on the site a couple of weeks ago and coughsweet and Hopeful Emma kindly directed me toward this board as it looks like my DP and myself are about to embark on IVF at Create. Hope you're all doing ok? Sally, hope the transfer goes well! 

Had consultation last Tuesday and are due to go back this Friday for a scan and induction.

DP's sperm analysis showed he had 91% abnormal sperm ('though a very high count and motility etc. fine). I was a bit irritated by the fact that rather than emphasising how he could improve this (ie: supplements, cutting the alcohol etc. - which we've done once before with amazing results) Mrs Nargund just went on about my age, which was something that couldn't be improved (obviously!). Left feeling a bit depressed by the whole thing and do feel that we're being rushed along a bit too. The consultation was so short (for £140!) and I thought of loads of questions after we'd left. I know that at my age (43) I don't exactly have time to burn, but I would like us to have the best chance possible when we try the first time, so feel I would prefer us to wait for a few months to both take loads of supplements, have acupuncture etc. and make sure we're both as fit as we can be ('though we're both fairly fit and healthy anyway). They didn't go through my blood tests results either - in fact they didn't appear to have these on my file and wouldn't give them to me over the phone. I'll ask again when we go next week. 

I dunno; I've read on other posts here that Create can be a bit chaotic, but I'm keen to keep things as natural as possible, so guess we'll just have to give it a go. Any advice very gratefully accepted!! 

Take care y'all.

Jules


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Good luck to you Jules!

In my experience Create Health can be a bit chaotic yes but no more than the London Women's Clinic where I was before (who don't even treat you like a person really, and where you can go months without seeing the same nurse twice) or the Bridge or the American clinic where I had my IUI with injectibles. So far happy with them all in all, compared to the others.

Just had three blasts put back. Had last minute acupuncture with a lovely woman who actually came to my house this morning!


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Well-done Sally... Fingers crossed for you... I think we are looking at a first BFP on our thread... We are all egging you on (no pun intended!).  

Jules - I think it may be a good idea to get started and start making the changes you want at the same time...  

Cougsweet - when are you starting then?   

Julianne - do let me know if you make any progress with getting the results... I wonder what was the point of us repeating the sperm sample when we haven't got the results yet and my egg collection is likely to be next wk when my dh will have to do another sample and then they will decide on the spot what to do... Doesn't make sense...

Emma - fingers crossed for your scan tomorrow... Hope the follies have grown big and juicy... And you have a fair number, which all sounds good...

Dixie - hope all goes well for you at the ARGC... They do sometimes achieve amazing results...  

I am trying to drink loads of water to help follies along...


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hey girls

Just a quick post to say lots of luck to Emma tomorrow. Grow follies grow!!! 

Incon- you have a scan tomorrow too right? Good luck and hope your follies have also grown stronger over the weekend    

Hi to all the other girls and the newbies  

Dixie xx


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello
ooh it's getting v exciting on this thread!  

Good luck with the next scans Emma and Incon, hope follies are coming along nicely

Sally - 3 blasts sounds brilliant       , take care of yourself 

Jules - nice to see you've made it over here. I know I've just got to the point of jumping in and seeing how it goes as I am well aware it may take several attempts. My DH has done 3 SA's over the past year that have ranged from 2% to 7% normal and that's with all the vitamins and fruit smoothies and giving up smoking (he doesn't drink alcohol anyway) and we were told that while this is all good healthy behaviour mostly sperm "are just going to do what they're going to do"! Not sure that helps you though!  

Hi Dixie, Prija, Julianne

Am expecting AF in another 10 days or so - around Nov 21st. It feels better to have actually taken the decision and be doing something. I just want to get on with it now. 
Still haven't told work what I am doing and am still pondering whether I need to say exactly what is going on or can get away with something more general. It's so difficult when you can't say exactly when anything will be happening isn't it? I don't really like the idea of them all knowing - I feel that being there is the one area where I still have some feelings of competance and control and in a way it is an escape from all this. My friends that I have told have not always come out with comments that are helpful and I feel I don't really want any more awkwardness at work as well.

lots of love to everyone
coughsweet x


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

And again, great to have everyone's support and stories.

Has anyone had any experience with natural progesterone (Crinone) rather than Cyclogest? Geeta prescribed this for me saying it was more effective (it's also more expensive - about fifty quid) but now I'm worried I'm not taking enough  - it's one applicator a day as opposed to two pessaries - despite Geeta telling me that one is fine. Probably just being paranoid but I feel that at my age I should be taking more than one applicator a day or bumping it up with a cyclogest....Can't get hold of anyone at the clinic today and Geeta isn't there on a Monday...

Any ideas?


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Sally she knows what she's doing, so I wouldn't start fiddling about with your dose. Maybe try and talk to one of the other clinical staff if Geeta isn't around.

We're seriously thinking about going elsewhere, as Rich is seriously hacked off that they haven't bothered to tell him his results and don't seem to have a clue what they're doing. He has no confidence in them whatsoever - and I can't blame him. On top of the other failures to explain results, they haven't even mentioned that the scan showed that one of my ovaries had, to quote Prof Cambell "a PCOS-like appearance". What does that mean in real terms? I have no idea what impact this could make when it comes to EC. Why didn't Lee go through this, and everything else that was necessary when she was supposed to disseminate our results?

I can feel a letter to Geeta and the practice manager coming on, telling them exactly why we're unhappy and probably bailing at this point. I'm so frustrated because we're so limited as to where we can go when we want natural or low stim.

Is the Lister the only other choice? I remember it being so expensive when I checked it out. We shouldn't have to pay through the nose just to get reasonable service.

ed: I've just sent the following email:-



> Philippa,
> 
> I'm afraid I'm a very unhappy lady as regards Create.
> 
> ...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hello everyone,

sally i have always used cyclogest and just 1 (including my pregnancy) so thats all i can say really, i am sure mrs nargund knows what she is doing when she says 1 is enough. 3 blasts! thats amazing, sending you lots of sticky vibes, come on embies.

hi Julianne, i really hope you get the answers you need from your email i am sure that will get them moving a bit. i must say now i am in the system i have found the ride a lot smoother. its that early bit that they seem to be getting so wrong.

hope your scan goes ok today incon, let us know.

hi coughsweet, it is getting exciting, especially with you starting soon too. i told work and they have been great, although now on the 3rd time this year thier patience might be wearing a little thin! its hard choice whether to tell people or not. i have always been very open but that means you have th expectation of everyone you have told which is a big extra stress. i find now that i tell people but keep excat dates of things vague.

hello jules, good to have you here. its always a bit annoying to be rushed in a consultation, especially when its not cheap. i agree with incon and think you should start the treatment and do all the healthy things while you are doing it as it would be good to start sooner rather than later. i did that get heathy thing and its great but you know what as long as you are generally quite healthy i think if its gonna work, its gonna work. tgood luck with whatvere you decide and i look forward to updates on your journey.

create are chaotic, i'm sure there are some better and some worse. i do actually miss the lister but that definilty had its downsides too. i dont think the perfect clinic is out there.


all went well for me today, it looks like i have 3 or 4 goers, they have been continuing to grow over the weekend and i am booked in for EC on friday.

a couple of questions of things i am worried about..

i have been feeling a bit giddy (like car sickness) off and on for a few days, do you think this is normal and just the hormones?

also i have never had sedation for EC before, only a GA whats is like, will i remember or feel anything?

thanks o wise ones.

em x


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Good for you Julianne....Hope that rocks the boat!

Emma - I have to say that I rather enjoyed my egg collection both times! They say it's 'sedation' rather than general but I don't remember a thing. Just before I went under they gave me a painkiller which was LOVELY....woke up feeling rather good too, in an armchair in the nurse's station chatting about football with the nurses and being given tea and biscutis. So don't worry at all about that.

Unfortunately, and this isn't to let CH off the hook, my experience of all clinics - at least the three I've been to so far (it only took one appointment with the Bridge to make me demand my consulation fee back - amazingly I got it), including one American one - is that they're pretty chaotic. 

Feeling a little down now. Rang LFC to see if I had any frosties (I don't; they're rarely good enough for frozen at the blast stage) but the guy in the lab said that if I was under forty my chances with three blasts would be fifty to sixty percent, but because of my age they're more like twenty percent at best. Then asked Lee at Create Health who said she really can't comment on this as she's not used to women my age making blasts at all. Any ideas? I know it's probably useless to try to calculate my odds anyway (it'll work or it won't) but these are the kind of things I find to torture myself with.


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello

Sally - 3 blasts sounds like the best result you could possibly  have had at this stage of the game - so try not to torture yourself. I think we all do that with these endless statistics that are banded about don't we? We're all just frantically trying to see into the future to what will happen which is understandable   

Best of luck for EC on Friday Emma. Will be interested to hear your take on having this sedation stuff. 

Incon - hope your follies ok??

Good for you Julianne - I hope they jump to attention and get hold of all these results swiftly now you've sent that! It's really not on to be waiting over a month for SA results. (Who is Philippa - the practice manager?)

I am a bit confuzzled now. Would you believe I have had a letter from Exeter today saying they are ready to have a chat with us about doing IUI? We saw them in August and were told that there would be still a nine month wait before we were seen - hence we got the ball rolling elsewhere! Still going ahead with the Create cycle but will have to give this some thought if it does not work. Create did not think my DH's results are good enough for IUI - but I get the feeling Exeter will say they are good enough as they seem to stick to the rules of what is allowable under NHS - which in our area is 4 x IUI and then 1 x IVF. Ah well - I think I will make an appt with them for January and just try and forget it in the meantime and focus on what is happening now. I was just surprised because they were so adamant that the wait would be a lot longer  

love coughsweet x


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hey sally,

dont be down as you have alreday beaten most of the odds, like coughsweet said you really couldnt be doing any better with 3 blasts, you really do have the best possible chance so keep relaxed and enjoy yourself over the next couple of weeks.

that is confusing for you coughsweet, well as least you know what the next steps are for you.

just had phone call from lee and i am booked in for 8.15 friday morning so here we go. belive it or not i still dont really know how many follies i've got..i think its 4 maybe or 5? not sure as hard to see because of naughty fibroid. the same amount as when on max dose of drugs....


hey to everyone else.

xx


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks for encouraging words....Shall try to chill!

Wow coughsweet and Emma, shall keep everything crossed for you both. Coughsweet, forgive me for coming in so late on the thread  as you've probably explained everything already, but is your choice between an IUI at Exeter and an IVF at Create? Or is it IUI in both places? Also, if you don't mind me asking, why IUI rather than IVF given the costs aren't so different at Create?

Good luck on Friday Emma!! Very exciting....Looking at you "CV" and it looks promising, between your son in '03 and your recent miscarriage, though I'm sure that was very sad for you.

I was seeing a wonderful gynacologist and herbalist (both eastern and western) called Trevor Wing for a while - he had me on Chinese herbs which helped my ovulation etc, he also did ultrasound. (That was when I was trying to do it naturally.) One thing he said was that the stat reports tend to slightly distort  how hard it is for over 40's; that in fact though one's fertilty takes a nosedive at around 35-37, after that it's incremental till about mid forties; for instance, that a forty-three year old may not be so drastically different from a forty-year old.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Hello troops, 

Sally - I think 3 blasts is fantastic.... Also many people have better fertility at 42-3 than some people at 40... or 35 even... Check poor responders thread and you will see that age range is from 30 - 40.  I would just die for that no of eggs tbh and I wouldn't even contemplate egg donation as a possibility.  

Emma - 4 or 5 is excellent... I think you have got pretty good chance, too.... I have only had 2 scans to date... How many did you have...? 

Coughsweet - I would say from my experience and especially if you have got a male factor that its not worth wasting your time and emotions on IUIs... Just do an IVF... It's not all about money ... Time is more important... 

Julianne - I am quietly v. pleased that you have complained.... I have the same issues... Haven't seen dh's spermies' result for a whole month... Am going to chase it tomorrow yet again...

Me - I have two follies - the third one has disappeared... At the ARGC I also had 2 + 1 smaller follie which resulted in 3 eggs and 2 embies... but this was on full whack of meds, so I am pleased with these two... The only worrying bit is the fact that they are on my right ovary which was silent for the whole 18 months of fertility treatment...My left ovary has let me down --- totally dead on this occasion...  The follies are of fair size, but a bit squashed as prof Campbell said... Lining is my best to date at 9.4 on day 10 ... I am likely to trigger either tomorrow or on Wednesday so my egg collection is either on Thur or Fri.  Not sure... Had my bloods taken today...My body seems to agree with the low stimm protocol much better. 

night, night now...


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Hey Incon, that looks so promising  

Now if what they say is right, these follies should be much better quality than those you produce on a full stim cycle, so everything is crossed for you that these develop into lovely embys.  Of course, it would be really helpful if you knew the quality of your hubby's sperm before they tried to introduce them (!!!!)

I have heard absolutely nada, not one thing.  I started with Philippa because I have a reasonably good relationship with her, and I can escalate from there if I need to (Coughsweet, she's the Receptionist at Harley Street).  If I had been her and received that email I would have sent one straight back - or called saying something to the effect of "I'm so sorry to hear you're unhappy, hang fire and I'll raise the issue with the right people and get back to you".  But she didn't  

I showed my post to the other half and he said it was way too wordy and very girlie (I believe 'bunny boiler' was mentioned!) so I told him he could do the next one if we have to escalate it, as I AM a girl and I AM wordy.  So there, *raspberry noises*.  He was a bit shocked I think, but then he's been winding me up about them for days, going on about how awful the situation is.

I just get really cross at spending my heard earned savings on a service that is no better than the NHS!


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hi all,

I thought receptionist at harley street was called Donna? well its certainly been Donna the 3 times i have been there. shes young and pretty and well dressed with dark blonde hair? anyawy either way you should have heard from someone by now.

fingers crossed incon, do you know if its thurs or fri yet? they booked me in but never let me know about my e2 blood test and i forgot to ask. i may ring back or email today.

i had 3 scans but that is because we thought we were going to abandon the cycle and nothing was happening so an extra one was booked in.

i dont know if my chance is any better than usual as i had 4 eggs last time and 4 the first time too. (well i had 14 the very first time with earl) but hopefully the eggs will be better quality. it is amazing that my body has responded in the same way on 150iu as 450iu

thanks for reassurance about sedation, i like happy drugs and it certainly sounds like you get some of those! also reassuring about your herbalist just in case it doesnt work and i can convince myself its worth trying one more time. no drugs next time though, never again, only natural ivf for me. i just think a lot about what it must be doing to me. does anyone else feel like that or i am just a worrier?

take care everyone. hope you got your feet up sally.

xx


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Very excited for you Incon and Emma....

Julianne, if I were you, I would write the letter directly to Mrs. Norgand via email. I probably would tone it down a bit, not to spare them your wrath, but because you'll be taken more seriously. For instance, rather than talking about Lee 'shoving inductions down my throat,' you'll be more effective by beginning a sentence with something like "I was most dismayed to find that despite assurances to the contrary, you have failed to....' etc etc. Hope I'm not being too pedantic here. It's just that these places are businesses after all with their own bureaucracy, and if you show them, in quite  formal and businesslike way, that you are not happy, then they are more likely to be threatened (especially if they think you might get litigious..)

Trying to keep my feet up, and I have people going to the shops for me (my neighbour brought me two pineapples yesterday, which are supposed to be good for implantation - could be bollix but why not) but funny how even at home, it's hard to keep too still; I have stairs, my flat is structured in such a way that you have to use them to go to loo or kitchen, and there's just been a water leak with Thames water here so had a bit of bother there...

Could this affect my chances, moving around my flat? An American doctor told me that short of taking up skydiving, a bit of movement won't make a difference (he reminded me that most babies are conceived 'on the disco floor.") I'm just worried I'm moving around too much, or sitting up rather than reclining...Am I getting neurotic here?


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

I work only 1 day a week and guess what my EC is on Friday...

Also forgot to ask about my Estradiol and the dr called me twice this morning.  I trigger tomorrow..., which is day 12 of stimms or day 13 of my cycle... This is earlier than usual for me... I triggered on day 14 of stimms last time and back in January.... 

Emma - 4 is good.. If you have 4 eggs it gives you much better chance... I would be v. happy with that.  As you say i find it interesting that i had almost the same response on 150 gonal f and 600 iu.  I did have one more folly in june but the egg obviously didn't fertilise  and that  folly only developed from day 7 and was smaller than the others.  Welshbird had 3 eggs and is now preggers `15 wks...She was also on a mildly stimulated cycle....  

My DH is already talking that if this doesn't work that we may try again... His spermies are not brill... He likes his drink but doesn't like to hear that it has an effect on spermies... We will need ICSI by the sound of it... Tbh I would ask for icsi as v. small crop anyway...  Just two eggies if i am lucky .  Hopefully two embies...  

Hello to everybody else...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

sally,

Please dont worry about moving around, really. in fact a bit of moving around is probably good. staying calm and eating good food and laughing and drinking lots of water are the best thngs you can do wth maybe a bit of visualistaion (have you got the ivf cd?), but keeping still I think i can safely say will not make any difference. i think zita recommends absolute bed rest because she is thinking about blood flow to the womb and energy being taken away from the womb. But as long as you are not running for 5 miles a day that will happne with lots of rest in between gentle activity.

With my son i got stright up from embryo transfer for a walk around the park and then back to work the next day, i did no rest at all. If its gonna work, its gonna work so dont drive yourself mad.

i have lost count of what day stimms i am, i hope we can go for ivf rather than icsi, always have done before. so mad we are having our egg collection on same day incon, have you had sedation before ? what was it like.

em xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sedation is easy... A bit unpleasant the initial jab and then you go within the next two minutes and wake up in 1 hr and a half for me last time and it hurts nothing... 

What time is your ec?


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

well my trigger is at 10pm so i guess i am booked in for 10am, what about you?


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

I trigger tomorrow at 11 pm and my ec is at 9 in the morning...It's 36 hours later normally... Didn't count but should be correct...


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Everyone,
Emma and Inc, lots and lots of luck and best wishes for Friday. You are both doing so well.  
Well done Sally! 
Sorry can't stay long, life very busy at present!
Love to all, 
Prija


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Hello Prija...- thx for your good wishes... You must be looking forward to cycling again...

Where is everybody....  

Sally -how are you doing... Don't forget eating brasil nuts and drinking plenty of pineapple juice...


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello

Lots of luck for the ECs on Friday Incon and Emma  

Hi Julianne - still nothing?

Sally - I am on the NHS list at Exeter and our PCT offers 4 x IUI and then 1 x IVF after that (and only if you have been trying for over 3 years). We decided to go to Create privately (and have also put ourselves on waiting list at Bristol) in the meantime having been told the waiting list was v long. I am not keen on doing IUI really but I think they will not give us our free go at IVF without doing it first. Anyway I am making an appt to speak to them and find out what is what. Hope you're not going too   on the 2WW and managing to find some distractions  

Hi Prija   and Jules & Dixie

love coughsweet


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

I see, Coughsweet....That's a difficult decision; not sure what I would do. How are your FSH levels? If they are still pretty good might go for the IUI first if it's free...(Having said that I failed two IUI's and my FSH was 4.7 at the time. Did conceive a chemical pregnancy on IUI with injectibles though - is that an option for you?) 

Ooh, good luck Incon and Emma!!!!!

Emma, don't worry at all about sedation - I quite enjoyed mine, if such a thing can be said! The wacky anesathist told me to sing a song and within one line I was out for the count; woke up feeling rather good. 

Thanks everyone too for your encouragement re. moving around etc....have been eating loads of pineapple but not Brazil nuts (so fattening!) What's the logic of Brazil nuts?


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

full of selenium, which is apparently meant to be v. good... I think it helps with implantation apparently...


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Not a thing  

I really don't think they give a toss, there's enough people banging down their door desperate to cycle however offhandedly they're treated, so why would they worry about me?

Sally yes you're right, and I'll let Rich write the 'formal' letter (if we bother), but I just blew my stack at that point.  It wasn't so much of a formal complaint as a "do something!" prod.  If I were making a formal complaint it would be just that, formal, and to the top guy.

Incon I'm so pleased things seem to have turned around in your favour.  Let's hope lady luck carries on swinging your way.


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hi 
Sally - my FSH is was 5.9 last time - so not as good as yours! 
It would be IUI with super ovulation - not sure what drugs would be used. 

Am feeling kind of nervous about it all now. Have been off work with terrible sore throat and cold so prob too much time on my hands for THINKING about it all. Got really annoyed at Mum on phone last night wanting to know when my AF is due - really feels I have no privacy at all. When I think back to those early months of trying when it was all so intimate and magical it just makes me want to weep  

Hope you hear something soon Julianne. Sounds like you have a plan of how to tackle things next though which is good.

    to everyone

coughsweet x


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

I checked with HCA (got a human on the phone for once!) and she said the results were emailed and faxed respectively on 11th and 12th Oct.  So why the heck can't anyone at Create find them?  They also said they couldn't give me a copy, apparently it's not allowed, so I've asked them to post a copy to our docs, and I guess I'll have to find somebody else that can read and analyse the results.  

I've had a look on the web to try and find an alternative to Create and I'm drawing a blank.  Who else in the London region offers natural/soft cycles?


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Julianne - you have the right to your personal information.... I will have my dh's sperm results faxed to the Harley St clinic according to what they told me yesterday and will be able to collect it on Thursday... 

Hello guys...

Cougsweet - it's not all about money... Do your amh test and see how much time you have got to play with and then make an informed decision... 

Sally - I hope you are coping well on you 2ww.


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Oh wonder of wonders, Philippa got back to me.  She's been hol for 2 weeks and got back today to realise that nobody had been checking her emails.  She was extremely apologetic and agreed that the situation was ridiculous.  She's forwarding my email (gulp) to the Practice Manager and asking Dr Khan to call me.  OK, so the worst it can be is that Nick Prentice will think I'm a hormonal over-emotional woman who's a bunny boiler in her spare time.  I probably am since starting with Create, and nobody has messed with my hormones yet!!

I read her email and burst into tears, the relief that somebody was listening was pretty intense.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

I have been pestering them on almost daily basis to get our results, too, so hopefully with added pressure we may get somewhere... They don't seem bad but awfully overstretched... but believe me not as greedy money wise as some other clinics...Also I don't know of any other clinic where they do ivf at such affordable prices... The quality of care is not necessarily better elsewhere and you pay through the nose...  Also nobody else does natural/mildly stimulated cycles....

all the best, inc


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Rich keeps going on about how superior The Portland were.  Well (a) we can't afford them and (b) they don't do the low stim approach.  It's so difficult to know what to do isn't it?  My feelings are that if we can get over this hump then we should stick with Create.  Rich is very alarmed by the whole hooleydooley and I don't know if I'll ever get him into their offices again.  Sigh.  Pointing out that they don't do clinical procedures doesn't seem to be sticking in his head.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Prof Campbell is really nice and caring and he does seem to genuinely care... I think you should give it a go and then decide... It's easy to get wind up about things when one is hormonal....  Also Rich may be using their sloppiness as an excuse for any other issues that he may have...(I hope you don't mind me saying this...)  The clinical side of stuff is handled either by Prof Campbell or the LFC and everybody is saying that the LFC is fine...  I have only seen Geeta for my consultation and when I collected my drugs... She never returned my calls...I think she is overstretched big time by trying to run two clinics + working for the nhs...


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Incon I think you're right and I suggested that he might be hiding his fears behind the shortcomings of the clinic last week.  He says not, but then how often do men really, really soul search?  I can understand how difficult it must be for him though, he's really wary of the whole thing and wants his fears to be soothed, not irritated into giant red waving flags!

Well Philippa called me and we've arranged a consultation with Geeta tomorrow (amazing!) and I've been promised that all my results will be available and everything will be explained.

We might actually be getting somewhere at last.

How's everybody else doing?


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

go Julianne!
Let us know how you both get on tomorrow

x coughsweet


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Well done Julianne for getting a response...who knows, maybe that was just the kick of the **** they needed (can I say '****' on this forum?) 

Also listening to the grievances you all have about Create, it seems that the area they fall down in is to do with male test results. Perhaps because I'm single I haven't had this experience. But so far I would very much recommend them mostly because of their conjunction with LFC who seem to have a very good reputation across the board...they're also pretty easy to get hold of in the lab, which is important.

Coughsweet, your FSH is excellent (I should tell you that mine hasn't stayed at 4.7 - it's 6.2 now, though I know FSH can vary from month to month.) 

Incon, you trigger tonight, yes? And Emma, is your egg collection on Friday? (I'm getting a little confused now.) 

I'm feeling paranoid as having scoffed pineapples for the past three days, I've since heard on another forum that some cultures use them to cause 'spontaneous miscarriage.' Anyone else hear this?

Other than that, enjoying my chillout time. Not sure it's quite the wise thing to do, but also reading Robert Winston's "A Child Against the Odds." Anyone else read that?


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

The buzz with Create is that once you're cycling they're fine, but before then they're fiends  

I don't know if we can say ****, but I'm saying it again.  Hah! Good luck Incon, check in tomorrow and let us know what's going on.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Well done - Julianne on getting the response you wanted....  The top 'man' will be seeing  you...

Emma - have you done your forms...Emma you must be triggering tonight too...Are you nervous?  


A practical question for Sally... What do I need to take with me for the egg collection... Do I need a bathrobe or slippers or anything like that... It says on the sheet that I need socks... Would this be the socks that I would normally wear and I just don't take them off or sth to keep me warm?  
Also we don't seem to have the forms for icsi and were told we would need icsi... Can I get my dh to sign his stuff at the lfc as I am taking the forms tomorrow..No joy for me in getting my estradiol levels. Would love to know to see whether I have got viable eggs in my two follies...This is a bit inconsiderate not to tell me and I have been chasing them for ages for the past 3 days.  I forgot to ask the doc forgot to tell me and here I am left wandering and stressing, which is sth that I don't need at the minute...

On a more cheerful note, Welshie had 2 eggs out of 3 follies and got BFP, which is sth to focus on... I would be so chuffed if I could do that.... It would be some Xmas present for me....

Have just been for acu session and acu pressure thing... Lovely... Am triggering tonight...


Sally - don't overdo it with pineapple, eh!

Cougsweet.  - when are you starting... 
I honestly wouldn't bother with IUIs once you are over 35... I haven't seen many successes on these boards tbh...Your time may be more expensive than getting free goes...Just see if you can get ivf for free ... Geeta is a good choice to start with...I wish I had known for this ages ago when I started out at 36. I wouldn't have bothered with trying naturally, nor would I have bothered with clomid for 6 months and IUIs honestly are no better than time sex .. And this goes for medicated iuis as well... You are just pumping your body with drugs ... I was told by the uch that the success rate was 5 - 9 % over 3 cycles... Find it hard to believe that I accepted to go along with this...But was v. naive and ignorant back then... Sorry to prattle on...


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Hi Incon...

I don't think you need forms for ICSI - we didn't anyway. (Do they definitely know it's going to be ICSI anyway? With me it was last minute.)

You don't need to take much for egg collection. I always indulge in crap magazines and something like soduku puzzles while I'm waiting, partly to distract myself from the fact that I'm so thirsty and hungry!

Coughsweet, I sadly  have to agree with Incon about the IUI'S. I do have one friend who conceived at forty first time round with clomid (now has beautiful twin girls) but most people I know haven't succeeded. In hindsight, I would have gone straight for IVF from the start.

Good luck on Friday Incon!!!! Everything cross from you.

Have now abandoned pineapple. However, a friend of mine dropped off some Brazil nuts for me tonight and I've eaten half the pack....not sure that's great either. Feeling a bit bingey maybe...haven't had a glass of wine or a cup of caffeinated coffee for six weeks, wanting some consolation for all this abstemious living!!

XS


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

Hello all,

Well done julianne, i do hope you get all the answers and reasurrance you and your hubby need to make you feel positve and good about starting a cycle. I agree with the general consensus that they are a bit chaotic but not negligent. 

Hi sally, dont stress about the pineapple, you'll be fine, how many days until you test now? i havent read winstons book, but saw the tv programme. Can i ask a question as i dont know how it works. do you know your sperm donor or is it anonymous? thinking of you lots.

hey coughsweet, how you doing, are you def gonna do a create cycle, can only be 4 or 5 days until you start? It is hard that thing of everyone knowing your business with ivf. i told people as i wnated the support, but really making a baby should be one of the most private and intimate things that can happen but having ivf takes that away from us. I might be mad as my tubes are gone and i will never ever get pregnant naturally but i have made dh and i "try" when we are doing ivf. 

hello incon, only 20 minutes until you trigger! try not to dwell on the blodd result, all is going well so far and knowing the result wont change the outcome for you. Our form for icsi was stapled to the back of the lfc consent form, you do need a create doctor to sign it (the prof signed mine). i am also wondering about dressing gown and stuff..

I triggered at 10pm tonight, i am just so relieved to not have any more injections, i really really hate doing ivf. i am excited and nervous about friday and cant wait until its over.

hello dixie and prija xx

catch up tomorrow

em

p.s. ****!


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Emma - when is your EC if you triggered a whole hour before me...  Emma are you taking slippers and dressing gown or is this provided... It was at the ARGC...DH is now panicking bcs of the ICSI form bcs presumably he must sign it as well and I am taking the docs tomorrow... And not convenient for him to pop out of work just to sign the form... Grrr... They could have given us both really so we could have signed it depending on the result... 

Sally - I also watched the tv programme but haven't read the book... Maybe that's a bit heavy going for 2 ww... Find sth relaxing...funny and unrelated to fertility...

DH is bound to call me downstairs in a minute...


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Good luck you two, I've got everything crossed for you both.


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hi all,

incon, i think 36 hours after 10pm is 10am so i have to check in at 8.15 but will be egg collected at 10am. 
36 hours after your trigger is 11a.m. so i guess thats when you are being done. dr khan just rang to see if everything is ok and i asked about dreesing gown and she said we dont need anything.

i would ring now about the icsi form as you dont need any additonal stress tomorrow. they gave me one so it must have been an oversight. your dh will be with you tomorrow though right?

hey julianne i hope it goes well today...look forward to your feedback.

how you feeling sally?

hello coughtsweet, dixie and prija.

xx


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Yes, they give you your own dressing gown etc. You really don't need anything except the forms. Just to warn you - I was absolutely parched from the nil by mouth thing so make sure you have something to distract you from that. Soduku works for me. 

I don't remember any ICSI form at all; maybe that consent was given verbally between CH and LFC. 

I'm feeling okay; slightly paranoid now that I might be getting a cold. The last time I did IVF, I had food poisoning about three days before my pregnancy test. It was kind of a twelve-hour thing, but I had a fever and a terrible night of vomitting. Lee at CH didn't think it could affect the placenta but I still wonder what would have happened if I hadn't had that...would welcome thoughts on this.

GOOD GOOD LUCK EMMA AND INCON!!! So correct me if I'm wrong, I'm a little confused with timings, but you'll both be doing it tomorrow Will you meet each other there?


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hello sally,

dont worry, you need to be nice and warm so if you get a fever you are like an incubator! Also the placenta doenst give in until 12 weeks so they are pretty self sufficent until then, a cold wont harm anyonone.

yes incon and i are going in within an hour of each other! i dont know if we wll meet up as i am incapable of speech when i am nervous!

maybe we should try and meet up as a group in the future though, that would be fun.

where does everyone live?  i am in south london.

em x


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello

Emma and Incon lots and lots of   for tomorrow morning   

Be nice to meet up but as I am in Exeter I think it's unlikely for me!  

Sally - I love Brazil nuts, espec covered in chocolate - all too easy to just scoff the lot! I am not really keen on the IUI option tbh - I just want the free IVF cycle if it's needed. Will focus on this cycle first though and then make more enquiries. 
I saw some of Prof Winston's series but not read the book - is it any good? 

Probably about 6 days to go before I can start injecting. Eeek!

coughsweet x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Have just been at the Create to drop the forms off... At what point I wander do we get £100 back that we paid for the induction and they said they would deduct from the overall cost of treatment if we pay for EC at the LFC tomorrow?  Forgot to ask...

Good luck for tomorrow Emma... If I see smb totally shaking with nerves I guess it will be you... And if I get it wrong and ask if the person is 'hopeful Emma' the person will think I am nuts...  Sounds like good fun...

Hello coughsweet... Let's hope you get lucky with this cycle and don't need to think about hte NHS....

Sally - hope you are not going too loopy on your 2 ww...


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

good luck incon xx


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi everyone,
Lots of luck for tomorrow, Emma and Inconceivable!
Take care all!
Love Prija


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

thanks prija,

good to hear from you xx


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Yes good luck good luck!!!

I hope you do identify each other, Incon and Emma - that would be like a film or something. I would love to meet up sometime. I live in North London, but can travel.... Funny, I may have seen any of you in the waiting room of either Create (Raynes Park) or LFC.....

The Robert Winston book is fascinating, all about the history of IVF around the world, the opposition it's come up against, also how it's interpreted by different religious, social, and cultural beliefs...a total anthropology of assisted reproductive technology, basically. He writes well too and with a great warmth and wit. Think I should give it a breather though as some of it is worrying too.

Oh Incon and Emma, I'll be thinking about you tomorrow morning!!! What time are your procedures? At exactly those times, I'll think of you.

XS


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi all

Incon and Emma - just wanted to wish you both loads and loads of luck for tomorrow! You must be so excited!

 

BFPs for xmas  

 to everyone else

Dixie xx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

I hope we'll hear good news from you guys later  

As for us, we had bad news.  Apparently Rich had a zero sperm count (and it took them over a month to tell us!!!)  His count was low before, but good quality he remembered.  It was good enough to conceive his daughter first time round, so I wasn't expecting this.  We were staggered that it was zero.  Geeta wants him to take another one to make sure, but said that because his count is low, it could be easily knocked out altogether by environmental factors.  As it takes 70 days to make new sperm, and as Rich had a really bad fever last week, he's fretting that any test taken before 70 days will show a 'false' negative.  I'm going to email Geeta and double check with her that she still wants him to take another test in the next few weeks.

I got the message that considering the trouble we've had, she's dealing with us personally.  I was told to email for her attention only.  We also didn't get charged for the consultation which was nice.

So, my learned friends, what can he do to encourage his swimmers to actually show up?  I've started giving him selenium tabs and he's now going knickerless (!) but what else can he do?  I'm worried that unless we can get his count up, this is the end of the road for us.  He has already said that he isn't up for sperm retrieval, and the concept of a sperm donor isn't going down well either.  I can't say I'm exactly keen either.


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Oh Julianne  

It really is two steps forward and one step back for you in this journey isn't it? 
So sorry to hear it's not gone well with the SA - you're really going through the mill aren't you. 

Have you been over to the male factor thread yet? There are always posts there about vitamins and so on - zinc I believe is one that is recommended.  I know I was a bit negative somewhere on here in an earlier post about vitamins and so on helping  - but my DH has high abnormal sperm, whereas from what I've read for low counts and/or poor motility supplements are much more successful. The good thing here to hang on to is that he has had sperm found before so it is much more likely it will be found again.
Geeta taking a personal interest is helpful - I thought she seemed v nice the one time I met her.

I have a friend in Exeter that I met off this forum last year. Her DH turned out to be azoospermic and I have watched them move from a position of thinking it was the end of the road to now being about to go for donor IUI. But from what I have been priveleged to share with her it has been a huge emotional journey for them both and the feelings and decisions cannot be rushed. They really didn't have the option of sperm retrieval either, which sounds like if it came to it might well be a realistic option for your DP. But that would also take time to get his head around too - not something you can make an instant decision on, particularly when you've had a nasty shock.

Try and stay positive - time and again people's situations change around miraculously on here one way or another   

love coughsweet x
P.S. Knickerless - now that's one I never tried on my DH   !


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Julianne,
In Jan 1999, my first son was born, took us about 4 months to conceive him. We started trying for our second child when he was 6 months old. It took us a lot of time to reach a diagnosis, but ours was obstructive azoospermia. The urologist we saw said that as an adult, a man may brush mumps off as a severe cold and wouldn't necessarily have full symptoms. DH had surgical sperm retrieval and we the had our second son following ICSI. Sadly I had an ectopic pregnancy last year folowing ICSI (both using the same sperm which had been frozen in December of 2002). I know you say that Rich does not relish the thought of surgical sperm retrieval, but he may come round to the idea. Has he been referred to a Urologist? After the initial horror, my DH saw a urologist pretty quickly and there is an awful lot they can tell clinically ie. by size of testicles etc. The main thing is that once there has been sperm then there is virtually 100 % chance of retrieving some surgically. If he was not referred to a urologist, then I would ask Geeta if that is an option. There are lots of suggestions to increase sperm count. The male factors in infertlity board has a wealth of information on it. In my case, because of the obstruction there is nothing we can do. DH also had hormone tests done, which are a good indication of sperm production. Just let me know if there's anything more I can tell you.
Love to everyone else!
Prija


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Julianne - not much I can add to what Prija and Coughsweet have said already... Things like that always come as a shock...But samples vary... 

My DH had only 7% of normal sperm this morning and he was shocked big time...Never ever considered himself deficient in any way... This is by far his worst sample... He had 25% normal forms just 3 wks ago...so sperm samples differ even within 70 day framework...

To add insult to injury I woke up from anaesthetic this morning to be told that I had no eggs, only some cells... Not sure how it was possible to have pretty decent estradiol levels, nice lining - my best to date in fact... and no eggs.  I somehow never contemplated this as a possibility even though the lady who did my EC mentioned before they sedated me that it sometimes happens... 

So I am afraid we haven't got good news either... Waiting to hear from Geeta.  We were told she will call us today, but based on past history it is more likely that I will have to chase her, which I don't exactly feel enthusiastic about...DH already mentioned that he wanted to do another cycle, but we will see what Geeta says...  

Hope that Emma has better news today....


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Oh Incon
that is sad news for you too 

take care of yourself - it's a lot to go through to end like that

nothing I can say really - hope you hear from Geeta soon

love coughsweet x


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi all

Incon- so sorry to hear that   Hope Geeta gets back to you soon. Hopefully you can try again soon 

Julianne- my DH has had six sperm tests over the last two years and every time the results have varied dramatically... on one that he took on the 3rd Jan he had 1% normal sperm , when it was repeated on the 25th Jan he had 30% normal forms! For the last year he has been taking Marilyn Glenville vitamins for men and eating healthy organic food, cutting down on drink. Also he tries to make sure he keeps his "area" cool...no laptops on his lap.. and regular getting up from his desk so that it is not too hot down there! Not sure if it is making any difference...on the last test in October he had 90% abnormal forms 

See this link to the bbc programme on Sperm 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/humanbody/truthaboutfood/sexy/spermrace.shtml

Hi to everyone else 

Dixie x

/links


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Oh Incon,
Really sorry and I hope you get a call from Geeta soon to talk things through!
Take care!  
Prija


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

Oh Incon I am so, so sorry, you have been going through all of that, i hope you are snuggled up with your dh tonight. I do hope you got your phone call and that you can get some understanding of what happened. i will be thinking of you lots. big big hugs. x

julianne, well although not all good news at least you are starting to get the care and personal attention you need. I do think there are lots of positives that can be done with sperm, especially as it hasnt always been a zero count. men make a fresh batch the whole time. my dh has been taking zita west vitamen all year and his counts are ok despite smoking (occasionally). in fact in zitas book there is a big chapter on the production of sperm. i am more than happy to mail you that book if you want to have a look. i can pop it in the post on monday..?

Well i am just relieved it is all over. felt really panicky on thursday night but my fears were unfounded. the LFC were great and sedation was good too. it was all over so quick, i was out the door by 9.30. at the lister because it is a GA you stay pretty much all day. And i got 5 eggs which is great, more than i anticipated. but i think 3 may be not quite mature. we'll see what happens tomorrow.

hugs and hellos for everyone else and thanks for all your best wishes.

xx


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Oh Incon, I am just so so sorry! You sound remarkably calm and sanguine about it; I think I'd be raging at the gods. How very disappointing for you, you must be gutted. But I also really admire your perseverance and hopefully you'll get the result you desire, even if the journey is more circuitous than you thought it would be. 

Julianne, I'm sorry for you too, though reading the follow ups, it actually seems quite hopeful that your DH will replenish his supply. I don't know much about sperm counts but it obviously bode well that he did have sperm and that he has conceived before. What's more, it sounds like kicking off at CH has finally done the trick! (You go girl!) 

Well done Emma - told you it wasn't painless! And well done on the five eggs; let us know tomorrow how many have fertilized.

Incon, what are you doing now? Are you at least treating yourself - nice bottle of wine, tub of Ben & Jerry's? I know it doesn't take the pain away but I've always found it at least a temporary consolation, after each of my own disappointments, to drown my sorrows in previously 'forbidden' vices.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Cougsweet, Prija, Dixie,Julianne - thx all on your good wishes...

Emma - so plsd that you have got a good crop... There will be some embies there ... Fingers crossed for tomorrow...

Sally - I hope you are doing well... 2ww is a torture and there is no easy way through it...

no haven't done any treats as yet but will do tomorrow as DH is working to make up for time today and will be on my own .... He just came home in fact as he was drowning his sorrows after work 'cause he wasn't allowed to drink for a long time... Would have appreciated some company today...

Unfortunately missed out on Geeta's call.  She did call... I didn't expect she would so didn't have my mobile on me whilst I was on FF and later I had a kip so didn't find her message until it was too late... She even mentioned I could call her by 7 pm...  Bad luck today... Has also promised a free follow up so will call on MOnday... I think we will definitely have another cycle... This kind of thing cannot happen twice in a row... I prepared myself to have a negative but not this...  It feels like my body has let me down a bit...So, will have to take better care of it and see whether I can deliver next time... Hope Geeta will let me cycle straight away...


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello

good for you Incon - hope you get to speak to Geeta on Monday and can crack on with another go.

Emma - I just woke up and felt I had to come on here to see what your news is - 5 is super - hope you get some good embies there.

Hi Sally - thinking of you  

Hello Dixie, Julianne, Prija

love coughsweet x


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Incon,
Glad you are manging to think quite clearly and I hope you get a quick follow-up. Hope you managed to get some sleep.
Emma, well done and I hope you don't wait too long for your phone calls. I assume they call you, but I may be wrong. The waiting is so hard in this game!
Take care both of you and lots of love to all!   
Prija

Spent last night in A/E as our little one fell from chair onto floor and has a hugely swollen face. Thankfully they think it is a soft tissue injury, but it looks dreadful. He looked so poorly when it happened, I was hysterical! I am a very calm nurse, but when it comes to the boys I can't cope if anything's wrong!


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

Good afternoon everyone,

How are you feeling today incon? I feel glad that you are thinking of having another go, I really dont feel like it is the end of your journey yet. You are still relatively young (they try and make us feel old but in the scheme of things we are not too old yet). Hope you and dh can be together tonight with wine and ice cream like sally suggests and talk together about the next steps. xx

Hi prija, oh my goodness you must have been frantic, i would have been hysterical. hope he is on the mend today. xx

Sally how are you feeling?, you been quiet about that, how many days until you test, we are all willing those embies to take. xx

thanks so much for your thoughts dixie and coughsweet. 

hey julianne let me know about that book

coughsweet when is that af coming? cant be long now.

I had to ring the LFC this morning at 10am. what i have experienced so far with them i have really liked. a big hing for me is that soemone answers the phone in every department! none of this "press 1 for this and 2 for that" and at the lister you had to leve messages on answer machines and wait for someone to call back which could take hours. at lfc comeone amswers the phone within a couple of rings and then puts you through and they answer the phone in a couple of rings, i love that, it makes a great a big difference to me. if i was ever going to try again i would think of using them as a clinic, their sucess rates are quite good. not for the oldies though.

i was thinking that really there is no reason why you couldnt do mild ivf at any clinic. i could be wrong but if i went to the lfc and said please put me on the short protocol with a maximum dose of 150 i reckon they would so it.

anyway cut to the chase, as of this morning we have 4 embies! probably transfer 3 tomorrow at 5pm depending on how they do overnight. i do hope i get some good grades...

i still have a really swimmy head. its been about 10 days now and its freaking me out a bit. i am a bit of a worrier with things like that and i think that makes it even worse. do you guys think it is just the drugs? I didnt have it on any other cycle...

hugs everyone

xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Emma 

4 embies sounds fantastic...  Fingers and toes crossed for you...

Julianne - I think you should test again soon... It's good that Geeta will be giving you personal attention...

Sally - when are you testing?  Hope you are feeling ok... Are you working through your 2 ww?

Prija - I hope you little one is ok now... It's only natural that you freaked out...

Cougsweet - not long to go now... 

Dixie - when are you starting?  

Thx guys for your support... Will speak to Geeta on Monday and see what she says... My childless friends are difficult to get hold of or they seem to be avoiding me as no phone call whatsoever, so feel a bit lonely going through this...


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Incon, you are amazing - you just sound so strong and stoical, hope you're getting the support you need though! And get tucked into those treats! Stodgy food, dodgy feel-good films, and a bottle of GOOD wine (you can see I'm even gleaning some vicarious pleasure at the thought of it). For heaven's sake you deserve it. And something like this can really take its tolls on a relationship too, so I hope you are both feeling strong.

Emma, well done one those embies! That's a great result. I totally concur with your satisfaction with LFC - most of all, I can't believe how easy it is to get hold of someone in the lab! But there are disadvantages to just going with LFC too. I have a friend who is with the LFC and she's paid about £1500 more than I have with CH. That might be partly more drugs but I think they are more expensive generally. Also, she isn't crazy about the doctor she's been seeing, De Graf I think she's called - thinks she's a bit of a cold fish. Next time she's going to ask for another doctor, I think he's Middle eastern...he did my ET and he seems very nice.

Also the nurses there are lovely. Did you have Christine and Barbara? They're such nice women. 

Seems to me that the place where CH falls down is in relation to your male partners....? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Prija I hope your son is okay!

I am going MENTAL with the 2WW. I test on Tuesday and I can't bear it. I've been having mad, chaotic dreams and obsessively checking my temp charts (which don't look any different from last month.) The idea of another BFN after all I've been through is just too much to take, and I'm not even sure I can afford any more treatment. Any advice on this? It's just so much heartbreak, as you all know.....I don't want to be negative but I know the odds are still against me even with my lovely blasts....


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sally - I think you have got a v. good chance with your blasts... 3 blasts on board is almost unheard of for the Create especially in the over 40 bracket...  So you will be fine... Are you going to test early. I reckon you could test even today... Definitely tomorrow with clear blue digital... I know that LUkey tested 4 days early and got a bfp... In case you are pregnant you could measure your levels earlier and get some extra progesterone support, although with Geeta in her natural mode she may not recommend anything else apart from the pessaries... Lukey is now on double gestone to help the pregnancy along as her reading is a wee bit low... It may work to her advantage to have tested early.... 

Emma - so exciting that your transfer is tomorrow... And with 3 embies you and Sally may have your Xmas surprises... One more day to go before you become officially PUPO>.....

I also liked the LFC.. It felt nice and intimate...

I must admit to not being that stoical as you imagine Sally.. I feel gutted, but will try to come up with some plans with DH tonight...He is also now worried about his sperm sample as 7% of sperm is not promising either.


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks Incon...

Well I'm glad you're not holding it all in. With your DH's sperm count though, can you not do ICSI? 

And thanks for your vote of confidence, though I should point out that I had three blasts the last time too, and still had a BFN! 

Do you really think I should test early though? I do have a First Response test which is meant to be able to tell four days before your period, but clinics always want you to wait till the blood test...

What do other people think? I will be devastated if it's negative but maybe it's better just to know now...I'm so bloody supersitious though, it's almost like I think that if I do an early urine test I'll scupper it even with that somehow....would be very interested in views on this...


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sally - have a go tomorrow... It's 3 days early... Why torture yourself.  I did last time and didn't change the outcome anyway...
You can start testing and keep testing until the test date....


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Okay, maybe I will. I think I'm just worried that if it's a BFN (which I really am expecting it to be) that I'll go on a bender or something....I just think I will be so so gutted....but of course maybe it's better to get it over with....

Very confused....


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

well i dont mean to throw a spanner in the works but if it were me i would wait..but its up to you, it really doenst matter either way, its a personal choice. my feeling is that it sends you into even more of a spin when its only time that can tell. If I were you i would be relaxing and trying not to think about it (ha ha!) until tuesday. but its your call. remeber even if you did test tomorrowand got a bfn you would still need to wait a few days to be sure it was correct. 

good luck whatever you decide.

incon hey you, how you doing? whats pupo? i've been trying to work it out but my head is a shed! dh can make those sperms great he really can and then its just catching that one juicy egg....i wait with baited breath to see what your next plan is. thinking of you lots. xx

i dont know the nurses names but they were so nice, really friendly and warm. and also they had an open fire going! how nice is thta. Its funny actually whne i turned up i remembered that i had gone to visit on an open evening when choosing clinics for the first time and i had disounted it as i thought it was too house like...embryos in the dining room, scans in the lounge etc! but my feelings have changed and i think thats all rather nice now.


xx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Pregnant until proven otherwise...  I also prefer a bit more intimacy these days with personal attention...I liked the fire, too... WAs freezing in the loo, though...
Hope all goes well for your transfer tomorrow...  Are you having all three transferred...?   

I do feel that I have that egg someplace but don't know for how long I can keep going ... My sis fell preggers at 44 so geneticallyshould be possible... DH had a shock re his spermies, too.  I must say finding no eggs was worse than my negative back in June... 

SAlly my dear - you do what you feel comfortable with...Nobody should influence your decision really... I am just no good at waiting.  I tested 1 day early with my previous attempt just so that I don't get the shock over the phone from the clinic...

Fingers crossed for you...


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

That's the spirit Incon, think of sis....44 is new 34 these days anyway.

Emma, so exciting about tomorrow!!! Christine is the nicest nurse but Barbara is nice too; don't think either of them work on Sundays though it could be a shift thing. The place is different on Sundays - much quieter. Anyway, hope you get a whopping grade four!

I think I will wait till Tuesday to test. I  have acquired a virtual phobia of urine tests....I hate them and they hate me with their diabolical NO'S, those horrible single lines...can't imagine any joy ever from peeing on one of those sticks, especially three or four days prematurely. I know I'm anthropomorphising them and I'm terribly supersitious but I think I'll just wait. If I get a negative tomorrow I know I'll do something quite stupid, get horrendously drunk or something.

Now trying to find someone to 'babysit' me for Tuesday.

Incon, hope you enjoy your treats and have a good chat your partner! Be super good to yourself!

And Emma - GOOD LUCK TOMORROW!!! I'll be thinking of you at five. 

Off to watch X Factor - was actually supposed to go out tonight but trying to stick to the total rest thing till Tuesday. 

X Factor and a hearty dinner will hopefully calm me down.


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Everyone,
Good luck for tomorrow Emma, will be thinking of you and great news so far!   
Incon, take good care of yourself and DH too! 
Sally, I would wait until the official day. Sometimes HCG is too low and then it starts off a whole new set of worries.   Wait till test day and fingers crossed all will be well, not long to go now!! 
Love to all,
Prija


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks Prija, I think I'll heed that advice. How's your little boy? 

My god though - I am just so petrified. It only really hit me today. The idea of another BFN is just too much for me to bear. And so upsetting to have been told that I've reacted as well as a woman my age is expected to and yet that I still have only a 20% chance! (According to the guy at LFC.)

Also may not be able to afford another treatment, unless my folks help me and not sure they can...if htey do, I'll go for an American IVF. 

But for the moment, I'm all butterflies. 

Incon, are you looking after yourself?

Emma, ready for tomorrow?


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello

 for today Emma - hope all goes well. Is it the norm to have embies put back on day 2? I am such a novice and confused as to how they choose when to put them back as there seem to be so many different things people have.

Also, do you have to pay LFC £400 extra for EC or ET if either happen at weekend?

Ooh Sally - think you're right to wait till official test day - they don't have that   icon on these boards for nothing! Have read so many posts of people getting themselves in a muddle by testing early. Now hark at me - what do I know yet - quote me back to myself please if I get to your stage and get tempted  

Hello Incon - hope you are having a restful weekend

Prija - hope your little one is doing better now

My AF could arrive any day from tomorrow on past performance, but I don't feel she's imminent so prob more likely end of the week  

lots of love to all
coughsweet x


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Emma - the best of luck for today.... Do let us know how it went...     

Sally - just two more sleeps before the test day?  Any symptoms?  

Cougsweet - not long to go for you either....  Fingers crossed...

Hello to Prija and Julianne... Hope you are well...


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Yes, best of luck Emma!!! I expect you're on your way already.

Incon did you have a good drink and a talk with your DH?

I do have some symptoms, but I'm worried they are the wrong kind of symptoms....some mild cramping which seem more likely to be pre-menstrual. Actually, I just feel in gut that it's going to be a BFN and I don't know if that's because I've had so many BFN's (though only one other IVF) that I can't believe it could be anything else, or if my gut is right or if it really is my gut talking or something more negative and bitter....

I'm suddenly having a very hard time, tearful and emotional, it really hit me bad last night. Went to the cinema today, saw a midday showing of 'And When Was the Last Time You Saw Your Father" and ate heaps of pick n' mix and cried my eyes out!! (It is a very sad film anyway, but I think it was hormones talking.) Even cried in the shower the other day when a spider drowned in the bath and that's especially stupid as usually I hate spiders. It's funny in a macabre sort of way. 

Again, worry that all this emotional stuff is partly pre-menstrual and so hope that it's just to do with the whole emotional maelstrom. Also feeling very lonely. I have a wonderful support network of friends but no male partner and everywhere I looked today there were couples snuggled up together and how I wish I could be going through all of this with someone else!

So so sorry for moaning. The stakes are just so high with this one and it could be my last; even if it isn't I'm not sure how much more of this anticipation and stress and then heartbreak I can take.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Oh Sally - so sorry to hear you are feeling that way, but it's only normal.... Symptoms of pregnancy and AF are very similar, so you can't really tell until you test... You can check for yourself that quite a few ladies have had af symptoms and ended up having a BFP.  It is an emotional rollercoaster and in my experience by far the most difficult thing I have ever done in my life... 

I think it's a good idea to get as many of your friends to support you through this time and try to do things to distract your mind from thinking too much about the outcome... You have only got 2 days to go... And if the pressure gets too much you can always test... I found that the last 3-4 days were probably hardest of the 2 ww... Maybe we mustn't allow to think of this whole thing in terms of outcomes, especially negative ones... Maybe if we think of it as a journey and some setback on the way it may be easier to keep on going...  Come on girl... ! There is no reason why this shouldn't work....

Emma - how was your EC.  Also curious if you had to pay extra for the weekend.  

Hello to the rest of the gang....  Hope you are all well...

Me - I am feeling surprisingly ok considering the ****e on Friday... No call from my friends apart from one who doesn't know about my ttc...  I just wander whether people have stopped calling me bcs they fear I would be in pieces...I wander whether my childless mates are afraid of deep buried feelings within them... Maybe I remind them of sth they don't like to dwell on.... I just wander as it's really poop when people I have been friends for 20 yrs seem to be avoiding me....


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## Hopeful emma (Apr 10, 2007)

hello all,

just a quick dip in as have potatos bubbling downstairs..

didnt have it done today, the embryologits said this morning that he couldnt quite see what one was doing so he wanted to wait until tomorrow.not quite sure what that means but hey ho. 2.30 tomorrow.


big hug sally, you are doing great, you really are and incon is right about te symptoms you just dont knwo until you test.

big hug incon - sounds like you doing OK too. i really hope your friends are not avoiding you as that would be pants, hopefully they are just a bit self centred which is still bad but not as bad. i am sure they love you and have just got tied up in what they are doing for the weekend. we are here for you always.

hello wobblers

xx


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thank you so much Incon and Emma, for such hope and for such encouraging words. Excellent advice Incon, and yes these few days are harder than than the rest of the whole 2WW put together. The film today helped - even having a good cry helped - and my friend Sarah came round after that and we've been drinking tea and nattering in front of the fire, all very cozy.

Incon - interesting what you say about your friends. I think you may really be onto something when you say that perhaps this pushes some buttons for some childless friends, particularly if they haven't resolved their own issues around having children. I am very close to a couple I know (a couple as in, they are together) and though they are generally wonderfully supportive of me, this has been a trickier one for them; they  make all the right noises but I can feel a certain tension when I talk about the baby thing. Both have since admitted, in their various ways, that it might bring up some painful niggling them for them. Perhaps some of your friends feel that way too.

I think also that people don't know what to say to us during these times. They know it's painful but the world of fertility may be a completely foreign language to them, (whether they are childless or effortlessly dropped out a few sprogs naturally) so they have no frame of reference.

Not that this is an excuse for not phoning. I think that people should contact you even if it is awkward for them, and I feel quite hurt when my own friends don't always contact me at these times. And sometimes I worry I'm becoming an awful bore, a 'fertility' bore. But I think really it's more a question of ineptitude on their part than not caring.

Emma, how do you feel about being moved to day three? I would take that as a good sign actually - the embryos  will be more advanced, yes?

Good luck tomorrow in any case!

XS


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Emma - it's definitely a good sign and as you have 4 embies they will be able to make a much better choice as to which 3 to put back... I take it that you will have 3 put back?  I think you and Sally may be preggers in no time...  
So you are PUPO from tomorrow...then... Good luck!  

Sally - - nattering with your mate and the fire... sounds the right thing... Shame you couldn't have some vino as well, but such is life...  Glad you said that about some of your friends as I though I was getting a bit oversensitive...  

Had a long chat with my cousin in Canada... He called me... surprise, surprise.!!!.. They went through 10 ivfs and succeeded on their 10th attempt.. They are now trying for a 2nd baby with donor egg, methinks, but this was not mentioned.. Funny how families work... He wouldn't really say, but it's unlikely that it would be her eggs after 9 years of if at the age of 43.5.  He mentioned 14 embryos and I know that on her last attempt she had only 5... Why it is such a problem to talk about donor egg I wander... But I pretended that it's all hers...

Wish he had told me when I was 37 to run for an ivf...  Shame I got such a bad advice on the NHS that it wasn't time for ivf yet and then it turned out a bit too late...  Sally - i envy you big time on your super productive ovaries...  I would give anything to produce 9 eggs and have blasties.. . Who.....ho.... 

I just tried to talk to DH again re  donor eggs as a possible alternative and he went all grumpy....

Ringing Geeta morrow for a follow up... Received different feedback re 'no egg situation'... One girl said that when the same thing happened to her that 3 different consultant have told her it's bad luck.  And another email from a 44 year old lady who had the same thing happen to her was told it's age related... Would be interesting to hear what Geeta says... I may be v. old biologically...


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Incon...

Interesting what you say about your cousin. It's funny how sensitive people are about egg donation; a matter of pride, I suppose, as if it's a sign of failure not to use your own eggs. Yet I know several women who have had egg donation babies and they are every bit as much their babies as if they'd come from their eggs! One of these babies, a beautiful little boy, even looks very much like his mother (my friend) which is very interesting...

Having said that, it does require a kind of psychological transition maybe, a kind of mourning of your own eggs. Perhaps your DH feels this too, as he wants to have a baby sprung from your loins, as it were. But I hope he comes round to at least discussing it, because it's a very important option to have. Good luck talking to Geeta tomorrow.

And good luck to you tomorrow Emma for the big day 3!!

Now feeling paranoid about all that pineapple I ate last week, as just read a post from LizzyB on FAQ's telling people not to eat pineapple, just pineapple juice....


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Imagine that you have been juicing pineapples, ok!  This is always a healthier alternative than buyin a ready made juice...  Why don't you google it and see what you find... This is all a bit anecdotal, methinks... so don't fret...  Are you going to test tomorrow?  I would be v. tempted... cause you will know tomorrow effectively...  Do you think you can keep on resisting until Tue?  I tested a day before, couldn't wait...  I think you are v. good having resisted so far....  Fingers crossed...  

I envy all people who make the transition to donor eggs and some of them so effortlessly... Is your friend open about the fact that her boy is donor conceived?  Is she going to tell him this..and did they do egg donation abroad or in the UK?  I am bothered about the kid going mad in teenage years and turning against me and me not being able to tell them about their origins...  And yes, would much rather have a bio child, too but there may come a point when it doesn't make sense to keep going and have diminishing returns and increasing debts on cc... Keep kicking myself for not having maternal insticts before I was 35...Grr...


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Hey guys, sorry I've been awol, it's been a bit mad around here.  We decided that the fertility thing wasn't enough stress, we thought we'd try and unravel my immigration issues to Aus and Rich's divorce as well....

ARRGHHH!

I've broken out in spots, it's so not pretty round here!

Incon, I just want to come round and give you the biggest hug.  You are being a total superstar, and I hope your hubs has told you just that.

Emma I'm so pleased for you!  Can't wait to hear that one of us Create girls has got a BFP.

Sally, I hear that the 2ww is the hardest bit of all, but I really wouldn't worry about the pineapples, sounds rather yum and I can't see how it would hurt, you'd probably have to eat a truckfull to have adverse reactions or something.

Thank you all for the advice on spermies.  We're actually OK (surprisingly), once we got over the shock.  I've hidden all his knicks and stopped him having a hot bath tonight (it's like a bad sitcom, there's me blocking the doorway looking all mental with hair everywhere screetching "nooooo don't do it - think of the sperm!!")  Having followed that link to the sperm race, I'm starting him on smoothies next week, I'm also going to follow up on the specialist vits.  I think I'm gonna buy some royal jelly with propolis as well, there was a link I saved from another thread here where a supplier was recommended.

I also had a weird moment on Friday with a deck of tarot cards (we have a surprising number of them considering neither of us know how to read them properly).  Most of our decks are in groovy little bags, but there's one deck that neither of us likes and it was just sitting on the shelf.  I decided they needed tidying up, so I went to pick them up and nearly dropped them.  I put them down again to pick them up properly, at which point they did jump out of my hands and went everywhere.  I sighed and started to pick them up, I got to the moon and then the star and clicked that most where facedown, the ones that were face up were a message.  So I carefully picked up the few that were face up and I've waved them at various tarot readers of my acquaintance - not telling them what was up.  It would seem that there are difficulties and some hearbreak ahead (well of course) but that if we don't give up and we make the decision to go ahead then we should be successful.  That was nice.


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Wow Julianne, sounds like a riot....hope the tarots aren't too prophetic, and that the dearth of baths and knickers work!!!

Will try not to stress about pineapples. (Amazing how my 'stress radar' just goes from one topic to another!)

Incon, regarding your DE questions....everyone I know who's done egg donation is quite open about it. It was easy for my friend Alison to choose to do it, because she was peri-menopausal and there never was any other choice (ironically easier to move forward sometimes when you have no choice.) I am a member of a wonderful organisation called Donor Conception Network (DCN) which is full of people who've had both egg and sperm donated babies, (sometimes both!) and I have met some of these children who are all beautiful, happy, adorable children. One interesting thing I keep hearing is that rarely do the children turn around and say 'you're not my real mother etc' or if they do, it's in that adolescent phase when they're just looking for some missive to hurt you with anyway. (In the same way that 'natural' children might say in a teenage rage,  "I wish you'd never had me!!") I think the TRUE natural mother is the woman who carries her child and brings it into the world and the fact that it isn't your egg ultimately won't make much difference so long as you love it. 

Of course it's still a big decision but I think love is the key word here - love is what matters. Not where the eggs are from!

Also Incon, while I wish I'd started this whole process a lot earlier too, it's pointless to think that way; we're ready when we're ready and there may be good reasons while we haven't done it earlier.

I think I will try to wait till Tuesday to test if I can....


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Emma - the best of luck for today... Do report back how it all went ....

Julianne - food for thought re royal jelly...Maybe I order some myself... 

Sally -  thx for the info re donor eggs.... Just curiosity.... Why are you a member as plentiful of eggs due to super ovaries?  You are right.... No point in kicking myself for not starting earlier...
You are v. good re no testing....  Gosh - I wouldn't be able to resist... Any symptoms as yet...

Coughsweet - not long to go....

Dixie  - hope things are ok at the ARGC...

Got a follow up with Geeta tomorrow...  DH still refuses to consider donor egg and if we want to do it I should really put myself on a wl if the next cycle doesn't work... Don't know how many cycle he wants to do to see whether it will work....


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hello
good luck for today Emma  

Incon - tomorrow is good - at least you don't have to wait too long

Lots and lots of luck for testing Sally  

Julianne - have such a funny image of you hiding knickers all round the house!  
Good luck in your efforts

Hi Dixie - hope things moving along for you too

Woke up thinking of needles today! Expect I'll be better once I've done my first jab and know what it's like - at the moment my imagination is doing overtime...
No sign of AF yet

lots of love 
coughsweet x


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## prija (Apr 24, 2003)

Hi Everyone,
What a lot of chatting you've been doing! 
Em, good luck for today! 
Incon, great to have got such a quick follow up and I hope you get the answers you need. 
Sally, you are doing so well and every worry is perfectly normal. 
Julianne, glad you are coping well. 
Coughsweet,  do you actually live in Bristol? I lived there from 1997 for a couple of years. I worked at Southmead Hospital and looked after lots of ladies undergoing fertility tests and egg collections. There's a bit of irony! 
My little boy is coping very well but has a very battered and bruised face and black eye, but not complaining at all!
Love to all!
Prija


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## coughsweet (Nov 21, 2006)

Hi Prija
no - I live in Exeter but am on waiting list for Bristol as it has a v good reputation and it's only an hour away so not too much hassle. BCRM which is part of the university is actually moving to join with the Southmead service into that hospital. Sounds like the whole place is being revamped bit by bit. That is ironic you having worked there!
Poor little chap - sounds like it looks worse than it is though!
love coughsweet x


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## dixie9000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi all

Hope you had a good weekend 

Sally...hope you are keeping away from the pee-stick! You are almost there....lots and lots of luck for tomorrow   

Prija- hope your little boy gets back to normal soon  

Incon- things are okay at ARGC. Start down-regging injections on wednesday   
It is good that you can see Geeta so quickly- i hope she gives you some good advice about where you go from here.

Julianne- it is funny the lengths we go to to try and get healthy . I had my poor DH showering his 'parts' with ice cold water every day for as long as he could stand it because Richard (from Richard and Judy) said he did that to improve his sperm and I also read that GPs used to give this advice   . I dont think he does it anymore....it is too uncomfortable. Good luck with the smoothies and vits...i have read some stories (on ff) where this has had some amazing results.

Coughsweet when do you do your first injection? I think you are right that the anticipation is much worse than the actual injection...i am peeing me pants about it!

Emma- wishing you loads and loads of luck for today  

Hi to everyone else  

Dixie xx


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Hello everyone.  I have some bad news.

I started spotting last night and this morning my period started, a day early. Lee at CH still insists I get a blood test tomorrow but it doesn't take a genius - fairly certainly not pregnant!

A friend of mine just took me out to lunch and I have been getting lots of tea and sympathy but I am absolutely, totally, gutted. I don't know where to go from here either....Pretty sure I can only afford one more IVF if that, but torn between staying here and doing it in the states, where they stuff you full of embryos. I'm  leaning in that direction but will need my parents' help financially for that and don't know if I can get it. And if I go to the states it's too complicated to use my lovely friend/donor so I'll have to go the anonymous route. 

I can't believe it. Seems even when you make blastocysts, most of the eggs at my age don't make it.

I've waited too long, spent too many years with men I didn't really love trying to talk myself into the nuclear family thing when I should have been doing this, starting this process years ago. I will be 43 in January and now I've probably missed the boat.

I hate my body for letting me down so much and I  hate myself for making my body wait. 

So sorry to be melodramatic - will calm down again later probably.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

SAlly -  have you done the HTP just in case.??  Dont' do the bloods if you don't want to...... But it did happen to some people to have started bleeding and still ended up with a BFP... In fact a guy here on the boards called Goose wrote to me that exactly the same thing happened to his wife and she was 42.5.  Now, regardless of your age I think you have a v. good response and the fact taht you can make it to blasts is certainly a good sign... Come on girl, you had the best response on this thread ever recorded...  

Maybe Geeta is not the answer for you, but if you can get the funds it may be worthwhile exploring the options in the States...Maybe your lovely friend could come along as dollar-pound exchange is quite favourable and it could be just the weekend... It could be a nice break for him, too... I think I would be tempted to try sth different and they are certainly the leaders in the if field... It's often a number's game and people do get pregnant at 43 with own eggs, too as you can see on FF... Check the thread ttc over 40... Also it may be a good idea to do some additional tests and maybe use PGD.  It may be a good idea to post a query on the SIRM board as to what would be a good protocol for you... Also check the multiple-cycle thread... Jake has recently been to Las Vegas and came back with a bfp.  Cornell is good, too...

Even if it's negative it's not the end of the world... REmember that you are a terrific responder and the fact that you get to blasts shows that your embies are of a good quality... People respond differently on different protocols... Lukey, for example, had 7 negative cycles on short protocols and then she did a long protocol at the Lister and has just got a bfp... She only had 4 eggs, 2 fertilised, transferred on day 2 and bingo...

Chin up girl... You said yourself that it's not worth beating yourself about the past... I do regret for not doing it earlier, too, but can't change that now...

Take care... Lots of love and hugs....


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Oh Goddess, the 'what if's', I spent 14 years with the wrong guy who didn't really want any more kids.  How long did it take me to wake up to myself?!

{{Sally}} definately take the test, you just never know.  I'm not so sure about the 'stuffing with eggs' route, it's the quality as much as quantity.  I think you're better off concentrating on producing one or two fab quality eggs rather than become a battery chicken in order to get more.  They won't develop if they're not good enough.  The fact that you're getting to blast stage seems very positive to me, you need to try and get Geeta to identify why they're not 'sticking'.  Is there anything else you could do at that stage to improve your chances?

I do hope all the above is moot because you get a BFP


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thank you so much Incon and Julianne...

Those are all wise words indeed.

I just spoke to Jacob at the LFC lab who said that though my embryos were a grade three when transferred which is pretty good, the 'inner mass' was what he called a grade C or D, as opposed to the desired A or B...He also didn't sound quite as excited as they do at CH about my prognosis...

Not sure what I'll do now. Pretty sure my friend can't come with me to the States (it's hard enough knowing when he's going to be around in London, which is why we have to freeze his sperm - his job takes him out of the country at a moment's notice.) I've been in touch with SIRM but also with another place in L.A. who just got a friend of mine pregnant, called HRC, a Dr. Feinman who has  very good reputation in the field. We've been corresponding. SIRM are far more expensive and I wouldn't be able to book in with them till late January which won't work with me, though I could do early January.

Just very confused, and very very sad. I'm sure this is true for every one of us here, but I just never imagined I could have a year of such total heartbreak and disappointment.


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sally -  you need to try a different protocol and it may make all the difference... This is a number's game...  I would just arm myself with as much research as possible... Don't forget that sometimes fab looking embies fail to get people pregnant and crappy looking ones work... It is an imprecise science...  

I have booked my follow up for tomorrow afternoon...

Emma - hope your ET went ok today, so officially you are PUPO now... Welcome to the madness of the 2ww...


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

New home this way....

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=120546.0

N x


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