# Natural IVF for over 40's



## lily17 (Sep 25, 2008)

Has anyone got experience of this type of IVF? 
Its without drugs relying on your own ovaries to produce 1 or sometimes 2 eggs and then fertilising and putting back. Its suitable for women who have good ovarian reserve, and no lining/uterus issues, but perhaps tubal probs. 
Its substancially cheaper than traditional IVF- £4700 for 3 cycles- I have heard Create in Wimbledon do this anyone know of any others?

Karen


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## madison (May 6, 2005)

Hi Karen,

  I didnt think natural IVF was done in women over 40, infact I thought it was like under 35 but
  would love to be proved wrong.  


    Love Katy. xxx


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## madison (May 6, 2005)

Well I just looked it up in the clinic you said & I cant see an age restriction on there
  so maybe I have proved myself wrong..

  I do wonder as I take MAX stims & still only get 2,3 or 4 eggs & if thats all I get on that then 
  wouldnt I just get the same on the low dose.. & with natural I would only get 1 but like you said,
  3 goes for basically the price of 1 it is tempting.

  Love Katy. xxx


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## lily17 (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi Katy

As far as I can see- natural IVF is actually recommended for older women as its gentler on the ovaries, Im going to investigate!!

Karen x


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## minttuw (Jan 22, 2007)

Hi Lily,

I did a mild IVF at Create Health's Wimbledon clinic last December. I only had 150IU stimulation per day instead of the 600IU I had with my 3 previous tx's at ARGC. I had another negative result with the mild IVF but it was considerably less stressful than any of my previous tx's. 

Mild and natural IVFs are well suited for older women, or younger women who do not respond well to the stimulation. The argument is that there is no point in stimulating your ovaries with high doses of drugs if they won't respond anyway. Also even though the conventional stimulation dosages make you produce more eggs they can reduce the quality of the eggs while the egg quality can be better with less drugs/no drugs. And they say that the drugs can interfere with the natural environment of the uterus hence jeopardising the implantation. Natural IVF is of course riskier than mild IVF as it relies on the one egg you produce during your natural cycle, so if it doesn't fertilise for some reason you won't have anything to put in. But if you know that you ovulate regularly and don't mind taking the risk of a cancelled cycle then it can be a good option. The clinic does monitor your cycle beforehand and will decide if natural IVF is suitable for you.

Just a slight warning though, you might find that the clinic is rather chaotic and their admin is really unorganised. Expect to have to sit in the waiting room longer than you would lilke to. 

Minty
x


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## lily17 (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi Minty

Thanks for the info, you dont sound very impressed?
How did you find the consultants and other staff?
Im surprised they are chaotic and unorganised admin-wise you would expect top notch service when you are paying alot of money!
Maybe they had a temp in that was a bit rubbish whilst you were there ( Im giving them the benefit of the doubt!!)

If you were giving them a score out of 10 for overall customer service what would you give them ?( I know you didnt get a BFP - but just for the service side) and would you use them again?

Yes - I understand the risk with natural IVF- you could have no fertilisation so nothing to put back, but the fact its natural appeals to me after having alot of drugs and intervention which has not got me the desired result either, so Ive got nothing to lose trying to let nature do its thing!
I just hope I fit the bill and can be suitable.

Ive just rung them and got an appointment at the Harley Street clinic in May, she said I could go to either Wimbledon or Harley street, but as I come from outside London Harley St is easy to get to via Regent st tube.

I'll keep you posted!

Karen 

Karen x


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## pippilongstockings (Dec 8, 2005)

Karen, I'm so sorry to hear about your miscarriage   Best of luck with the natural IVF, it certainly sounds a lot less stressful than conventional IVF.

Pippi xx


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## minttuw (Jan 22, 2007)

Karen,

I was - if I'm honest - slightly disappointed with the clinic but can't really pinpoint one reason why. Geeta is very very friendly so the consultations were good and she always tells you a lot about research done on the mild/natural IVF. Also Freda the nurse and Prof Campbell who did one of my scans were really friendly. I think the reception staff was not always very efficient/informed and the waiting was always very long, and each time we were there we saw a different doctor/nurse (but this happens in other clinics as well).

We did think of joining their egg donor waiting list for the programme they have with the Cyprus clinic but then decided against it. Partly because of the experience we had at Create and partly because it was abroad and we didn't know much about this clinic in Cyprus.

There used to be a long thread about Create here under Over 40's but it was removed a while ago and I lost contact with the people who were on it. I suspect someone posted (anonymously) on the thread that actually was not a member of FF but a member of staff of the clinic. This is only my suspicion, not confirmed.

I do hope you have a good experience at Create and a positive outcome. I am really sorry to see you just had a miscarriage.  

I wish you all the best and good luck!!
Minty
xx


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## madison (May 6, 2005)

Karen,

  I would be really interested to know how you get on. After my next TX I really have to decide
  if I should try something really different, Either this or a treatment they do in America that
  the Lister may do here if another woman on FF can get them to do it for her. Running out of
  options really & even thinking of giving up.
    I have a treatment comming up at the end of may but not very hopeful.

  Good luck with your app.

  Love Katy. xxx


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## lily17 (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi katy

Feeling a bit negative about natural IVF now as I havent seen any positive posts on the create thread with the natural IVF, e-mailed my old consultant and he dismissed it as a fad treatment- he said the results are so poor its not worth it.............  so now not sure.....
I have seen your treatment history, youve certainly given it a try....... I dont fully understand your problems so forgive me if my suggestion is not right, have you considered donor treatment?

Karen x


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## madison (May 6, 2005)

Karen,

  DE is not an option for me as we already have Miles from our 4th go & unless we
  can get pregnant using my eggs we wouldnt get pregnant again.

    If Miles hadnt arrived then we would have tried with DE by now as it was already something
  we had looked into.

  Maybe at your app you could ask the clinic there what the chances are etc... they do both
    natural & medicated so they have no reason to try to make out to you that its the best
  thing to do as they could treat you both naturally & medicated.

    Love Katy. xxx


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## Kellois (Jan 28, 2009)

Hi all

Just seen this thread and thought I'd join. I've been to Create for two mild cycles (both abandoned / empty follicles) and Geeta now saying only option for us is natural. She wont give me any more meds as she said I'm not responding. I have fluctuating FSH (low of 3.1, high of 29!).

Minty - there is another Create thread here:
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=181121.new;topicseen#new

As for success rates, Create's latest figures (admitedly only six month figures) show higher rates for natural than for stimulated ivf in women 40-45. Geeta did say that this couldn't be expected all the time, but nevertheless, I guess it shows that natural ivf can and does work.

Good luck everyone!


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi just to add, I haven't had any problems with waiting times. I have been treated at Create since Feb 09.
The original thread was taken off as there were some negative post which were upsetting people cycling at create at the time.
It is now positive again, luckily.

I am starting my next treatment at create in a couple of weeks.

cwsg


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## madison (May 6, 2005)

HI,

I e.mailed them about 4 days ago asking for prices etc & have heard nothing back  

  Katy/ xx


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

their prices are on there website.

good luck

cwsg


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## hope25 (Apr 28, 2009)

Hello All

I havent decided to embark on the fertility route yet but have been silently reading threads and keeping my options open...i was looking into mild ivfetc its a shame that the create thread was removed just because some people were not having good experiences..i think that defeats the purpose of having forums where people should be free to post whatever they experience..good or bad...and i think its also useful for those of us who are reading but not posting to get the full picture and not a whitewash.,,

Anyway I came across another thread on FF
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=70942.0

it didnt inspire much confidence in Nargund (the consultant) so decided to give this clinic a miss...i am also concerned as to why the more reputable clinics dont offer it..although i know that the successfull clinics do offer a protocol that is suited to the individual..and as much as i dont like drugs..i would prefer to be prescribed what will maximise my chances of that all elusive BFP..after all..its alot of money (and time in my case being over 40) to risk on fad treatments.

luck to us all
hope


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## cwsg (Nov 10, 2008)

hi hope,

the majority of women will not go for mild ivf, as is shown in the thread you mentiioned, which i have just read. It is an option avaliable according to our own personal choice. Although I dont think Create are succesull in being holistic, and i do have criticisms of there admin, for me lower doses of drugs feels managable as opposed to conventional ivf. It is a hard decision to make, when one goes against the majority.

good luck on your journey

cwsg


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## Lilo2 (May 10, 2009)

Hi, I tried natural cycle IVF at Create a couple of years ago.  No go for me though as I was already starting to have erratic cycles then and had about five cycles abandoned after the first scan as there didn't seem to be any follicles developing - I think perhaps this was partly because my cycles were all different lengths so it was probably hard to figure out when to scan. 

Only one cycle went to egg collection and they couldn't find an egg.

Eventually I got so disheartened I gave up on that.

I think it must give you a small helping hand, but it's mostly down to your egg quality.  

I couldn't conceive at 33 so don't let me put you off!  (I had a pg naturally at age 41 but ended almost as soon as I'd had the positive test.)

Lilo


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## aasha1 (Jan 26, 2009)

Hi Karen (lily17) --I am so sorry to hear of your recent m/c..i know what you must be feeling as I had a m/c a 4 years ago around at 6weeks but dnc at 8 weeks..it was heartbreaking. Its good to know you are staying upbeat and looking at your options. If you are looking for peoples experiences of create..then I can offer you mine which is not great. I didn’t feel cared for there and didn’t feel anyone really was following my treatment as I was seen by a new person each time. I felt there was a distinct lack of professionalism. Many of us were not having a good time there and we shared our experiences and woes..and I was shocked when create asked to pull the thread. I asked the moderator and the lawyer through FF and neither could see any reason from any our posts for that. The lawyer told me that everyone is free to write anything that they experience and no one has a right to take that away from you. I rang prof C and asked what was happening and he told me that he didnt like the idea of me  posting on FF. That was the final straw. My husband was disgusted and promptly wrote to their  complaints officer and told her we were withdrawing our custom and no longer wanted to continue at the clinic.

Im sure when you asked your opinion of a clinic..you wanted peoples true and honest opinions..not all rose tinted…some people will offer positive opinions ..others wont..it depends on the individuals experience and feelings..and that’s what a forum is all about..our varied opinions and experiences.

If you are interested in less drugs and no down regging then there are many clinics who do offer that. As Hope25 rightly says, the  successful clinics do offer whatever protocol they think best for each individual…I am looking into the lister which my GP recommends highly..and lister do offer short protocols which don’t involve down regging and will prescribe the dose of drugs that suit you to a T..i think they do offer softer protocols for our age group..but they look into each case and decide…they are known for having a lot of experitise in this area and especially for women in our age group (40+). I have been surfing the lister girls thread and they  seem to be very happy with the lister and feel in capable hands…Lister has a very good reputation. 

Hi Minty…I have to agree with your suspicions re certain members on the create site not being genuine as I tried to post what I went through and got lynched by a couple of people who don’t even seem to be cycling there now or in the past…I reported them to the moderators as they attacked me personally. Totally out of line as they cant deny me my experiences..they don’t know what I went through. I decided to no longer post on the new create thread as its not a nice place anymore and told the moderators to deal with the offensive posts as I no longer wanted to post there and didn’t want my posts to remain there either. Other members have contacted me with the same suspicions as yours.

Hello Hope25..i agree with you totally. Forums are a supportive place where people can post their good or bad experiences. If it wasn’t for FF I would not have got the invaluable support and advice from the legal team on FF regarding a problem I had. I received so much encouragement and good advice that I have now been awarded enough monetary compensation to cover atleast one cycle of IVF (if I needed to go down that route). I’m hoping I don’t need IVF (currently on clomid )then im sure I can use the money to buy  essentials if I am blessed again with a baby. If it hadn’t been for FF, I would have retreated after the apology from the clinic but the legal advisor through FF told me the level of compensation I could expect to get..and I got it!! I have also had lots of PMs from people who have been lovely and supportive…they more than make up for the selfish and rude individuals who think they have the right to tell people what they can or cant post just because it doesn’t agree with their agenda or what they want to hear.

Sorry for the long post…havent posted for a while and its all coming out …but I don’t want to be put off posting as I know the majority of you are very open minded, free thinking caring individuals..the primary reason for me posting on FF in the first place.

Hope25..I had a look at your profile..i can see you are on clomid too..im thinking of joining your group as I can see from your thread that you girls  have had 2 BFPs recently…feeling like a need a new home while deciding on a clinic..but Lister is definately on my wishlist. Hoping to meet up with you on the clomid chatters page.

Hi Lilo2…so encouraging to know you conceived naturally…it shows it can happen…don’t give up trying as you are still in with a chance ..it can happen anytime..a friend if mine got married at 48 and was pregnant naturally a year later..and gave birth to a beautiful healthy baby girl. It was her first child and as she never considered herself old I think her body didn’t either….stay positive..you are a mere baby in comparison to my friend who is now nearly 50(but looks 35).

BFPs all round please God
Luv
Aasha


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## Lilo2 (May 10, 2009)

Hi aasha, thanks for your kind words.  Unfortunately your optimism (with regard to my situation) was not matched by the most recent consultant who we went to see who said 'don't visit any more clinics asking about IVF with your own eggs'.  I think he meant it kindly.  I pointed out about my natural (albeit short-lived) pregnancy 3 years ago and his answer was 'yes but at your age your egg quality will be poor and the egg won't last even if it has been fertilised'.

I don't want to put everyone off because I have been trying for years.  And it is great to hear about older women who go on to have healthy babies of their own, either with or without help.  So there is definitely hope for some people out there.

Lilo


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## hope25 (Apr 28, 2009)

Hello All

was just popping in to tell my lot in the clomid thread that my AF has arrived when I saw this post.

Dear aasha,,,so sorry for the bad experience you have had with a couple of people on FF...I did see some of the posts before they were deleted by the moderator (thank God for that) and I did feel they were really off.some of the members did see the point you were making and make some encouraging replies to you....but nobody has a right to have a go at you just because of the experiences you had at a certain clinic...of course you have a complete right to post your feelings and opinions. I was quite put off by the way certain people didnt even want to let you put your point forward and I am glad you reported them....i even recall one person telling you to go and post where you were cycling..how rude..i didnt know she owned the thread and there was some unwritten rule that you cant post on any thread unless you are cycling there..i could see her comment made some sweet dear who was already pregnant feel as if she had to leave the thread too..not cool...if they make any nasty comments or accusations directly at you again ..report them...i am also starting to have the same doubts as misty. its good for us to see positive comments on clinics but not at the expense of curbing people from posting anything that is not so good...we want a fair and honest view..not a whitewash..i dont think there should be any free promotions of clinics here unless they are deserved and from genuine sources and certainly not at the expense of silencing opposing opinions and comments.

Please do join us crazy clomid chatters...we are a friendly live and let live bunch and you can express yourself there without anyone jumping down anyones throat...hope a couple of bad eggs havent put you off posting and you will pop in regularly onto our little thread...which cycle are you on now?...i am now officially on round 2.

Yes..I have read good things about Lister too..and although dont quote me on it but someone here did say that london women clinic aswell as many other clinic do offer what create might term as mild ivf...so options are there.

come join us...speak to you soon... 
hope xx


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## aasha1 (Jan 26, 2009)

Dear Hope25

I am very touched by your post...thanks so much for the support...it restores my faith in people..I will certainly pop over now to your thread...sounds like it is getting very popular with poeple joining everyday..see you over there..will send you a pm too.

hi Lilo...you are very welcome...please dont  give up hope...when i was having my investigations i was told it was 'impossible' to get preg without IVF...while the consultant was telling me this i was clutching my 4 day blood tests results from my local maternity unit showing i was pregnant...!!...i became a mum 9 months later to my beautiful DD...so never say never...i recall the story that was on the news recently of the couple who were trying for 20+ years and spent over £30k on treatments when she bacame pregnant naturally in her 40s and is now a mum. if its going to happen..it will...no matter what the drs say...i started taking supplements (natural) like Vit b6 and zinc and munching on brazil nuts (for good egg quality)...it really helped and within a month my cycles returned to their normal length. I dont ov every month..but some months i do...and you can too...mother nature has a way of suprising us to remind us its all in Gods hands...I will keep you in my  

Hi to karen, minty , katy and kellios...hope you are all well.
lots of luv and baby dust
aasha


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## Kellois (Jan 28, 2009)

Hello Aasha, hello everyone!

I've only ever been to Create so can't compare them with Lister or anywhere else. I do find the care patchy. I think if it wasn't for Freda I'd be in someone else's care by now. Probably the Lister as i've heard great things about Dr Marie Wren. 

A quick update from me - had the results of the dreaded AMH by phone on Friday. A terrible result of 0.7, spent the whole weekend moping around, in tears, searching online for any ray of hope (didn't find much). I had a day 6 scan booked for this morning at Create in the hope of starting a natural cycle this month. Last month I ovulated too early (one follie was 18mm by day  so missed out. (In actual fact Geeta thought it was a cyst not a follie, but found a copus luteum today so was a follie after all) To be honest I didn't hold out much hope and had been starting to work through stopping all treatment and calling it a day. But have just found out that I have two decent size follies, and am starting a controlled natural cycle straight away. 

Out of interest - is it only Create that offer natural or controlled natural cycles? It is difficult to read their stats as they only have stats per ET not cycle started, don't express stats by aged 40-42 and 43-45 and only have 6 month not 12 month stats. I'm thinking of contacting the Lister as an alternative. 

Good luck everyone, kellois


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