# Poor Responder........part 36



## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

New home "Team PR"



Love, luck & sticky vibes



Natasha xx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Great news Cath!!!!

Am I first??


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Yay...new home will look great decorated with    s for Bugle - congratulations!  brilliant news, really brilliant!

and   to your acupuncturist, and the extra stress he caused you!!!

   re men and their helpful suggestions not to analyse symptoms!!


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Mirra - Love the new pic!


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## ophelia (Sep 27, 2005)

Massive congrats to Bugle!!!  We needed some good news on here. Your levels are really high so yes, it's probably more than one.   Really happy for you and DH. 

Will you book yourself in for an early scan?

Lolly- Can't believe you too may have to cancel.  Fingers crossed though that that is not the case.   
Are you on the 300iu Gonal F and 150iu Menopur? I didn't have any response whatsoever when on that dose last summer so quickly changed back to 300iu Menopur + 150 gonal F at the day 5 scan and got 5 follies after some more days of stimms on that (although 2 disappeared closer to EC but got 3 great eggs/embies from the other 3 follies).

Some poor responders seem to respond better to a high dose of Menopur. I know I do.

Laura- has your DH found his passport yet? It's only 2 weeks till you go isn't it? Do you know what drugs/dose you'll be on yet?


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Gabs    for tomorrow x


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi all - just a quickie as really tired and need to get to bed as we are being picked up at 7.35am in the morning to be taken to the airport.

*Bugle* - CONGRATULATIONS  - what a huge reading! def sounds like more than one - so pleased to read such great news - well done you and DH!   

*Gab/Lolli* - have PM'd you sweetheart - sending you loads of  for Saturday and  - sorry that we didn't get to say goodbye today due to the hotel moving/clinic appt etc but hope to come down and see you all in Pompey soon.  Big love to DH and little David 

*Lincs Jax* - sending you huge 

*Juicy* - good luck for ET of your little fighter tomorrow -  that he soon snuggles in for the long haul   

*Pinky * - welcome to the thread 

*Beachy* - really hope the "thing" turns out to be nothing and has disappeared by next scan - also that your left ovary hopefully catches up. Good luck hon   

*CathJ * - congratulations on getting to the 2ww - so pleased for you and I really hope it works - and that the  doesn't drive you too 

*Mira * - love the new bump pic - bumpalicious! 

*Ophelia* - you know how much I want this to work for you and your lovely DH - was so lovely to have met you out here and thanks for all the pointers when we first got here it was such a help  Good luck for next test/blood test hon - really hope its a positive!   

*Laura* - hope things brighten for you very soon - not long now till you will be over here and can kick back and relax  its a great place, am sure you will love it  Hope Tim finds his passport soon!

*Minxy* - hope you get lots of brill eggs if you haven't had EC yet - or if you already have that they all turn into fab embies   

Sorry to those I haven't messaged - hope you are all well - sending  and  to anyone who needs it! I will try to get the list ship-shape and Bristol fashion once I am back home on my beloved Mac computer!

Thanks for all the support, I am so glad you are my friends 

Love Steph xxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Steph- really wish that it has turned out differently for you both, you really deserve some good luck x xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Steph - you still sound so bright! I'm so pleased you can go for it again so quickly - this will be it!

Lolly - Ophelia's advice sounds great! Gives you some hope. I was on the same proto you are on, but I was worried it wasn't enough Menopur at the time - with any luck your ovaries will wake up with the new drugs.

Beach - have you had polyps before?

Laura, Cath, Juicy and preggers Bugle - hello!

And all who haven't posted on the new thread yet - hello!

And it's goodnight from me - again. Can't stay awake at the mo.

xxxxxxxxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Mir- love your new pic...never had polyps before as I'm aware so that's a good sign isn't it


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Don't stress yourself Beach.  You don't even know if it is a ployp thing yet!!  Prob just an extra thick bit of bedding for your embies!

Steph - You do sound bright.. your amazing.  

Ophelia -   for tom.  They emailed to say Ill be on letrozine from day 2 then gonal f which I've never had before... you think I should insist on Menopur?  At least I know I've had a response for that. I'm really scared i'mnot going to respond considering Steph and Gab... imagine dealing with that when out there on my own.  

Tim has been looking for his passport for about 3 weeks, he has done nothing about it, I'm geting mmore and more stressed, but if I say anything he just gets more and more stubborn about it.  He has 3 weeks to sort it out.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I'm back! Only briefly before I turn in.

I don't think you have a polyp Beach - I reckon it's what we experts call a 'plop' - an unidentified blob that just disappears during tx. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it! 
So, your plop should be gone by sat.  

Laura - men are inFURiating about these things! When did he last need a passport? Japan? What bags/cases did he take?

Right - nighty night. Speak in the morning my sweets.

xxxxxxxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

He had it in Hong Kong last year, I always look after it as he ALWAYS loses things.  Not my problem, he will have to deal with it.. ifnot I will have to scout around in turkey for a replacement sperm vessel!

I like the plop theory!


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi just thought I'd set this up for us old poor responders gang as old thread really busy and just can't keep up with everybody! So thought this could be a place for just us and we could still be part of the old one, but its easier to keep up on a smaller one??


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Yay! Hello!

Yes, a wee place where I don't get so confused is great!

Must dash, as I'm getting the dogs out before work, but hello you!

xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi Mir glad you like it!! 
Enjoy your walk!
xxx


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## Guest (Apr 10, 2008)

Merse - I know what you mean, I've been getting very confused about who's who at the moment.  Glad you had a good weekend away. How are you feeling in general?  

Mira - Wow, your bump is fab - you really are blooming    Enjoy your walk.

Off to see my Granny today - will probably take her for a push in her chair along the prom.


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi Em glad you've found us! 
Still very low but have asked for some counselling!
Hope you feeling better and enjoy your walk with your Granny xxx


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

this sounds like a good idea - not being part of the old gang I won't post again but enjoy and please carry on posting on the general poor responder thread!!


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

I like the plop theory too!

Bugle -         That is absolutely brilliant news!  You must be delighted!

Cath - congratulations on being PUPO!

I am enjoying the absurd comments from men, be they acupuncturists or DHs!  

love to all!


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## ophelia (Sep 27, 2005)

Another BFN for me today so back to square one.  Had no symptoms throughout the whole 2ww so not surprised really.
Still going for bloods tomorrow to put and end to this cycle.

Thanks for all your well wishes though.


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## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Ophelia, I'm so, so sorry. Life's just not fair is it.  Sending you loads of cyber   . 

Gabs, also so sorry to hear you might have to cancel.  I know how awful it is not even to get to a 2 ww when you're all psyched up for a cycle.  And this must be even worst when you know it's your last cycle. I hope you have some really special times in Istanbul with you DS and DH.  Lots os   .

Love to everyone else 
xxx


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Hi ladies

Really sorry but we already have a Poor Responder thread and for moderating purposes I'd really like to keep it that way.....I don't feel we need 2 separate threads for the same thing on 1 board.

Apologies but I'm merging this thread with the original.

Thanks
Natasha


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## alegria (Dec 10, 2007)

Bugle - Congratulations on your !!!

Ophelia - So sorry about your sad news, take extra care of yourself and dh  

Mir - Really like the pic  

Hello to everyone else!

Alegria x


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

Ophelia hun,   I am really sorry, its so s***, I am gutted for you, I really hoped this was it for you.  

Sending you a huge cyber hug.

xx


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi all just a quick post to make sure I don't lose the thread again. Love to all
PS please don't go off to anuvver fred you lot!
xxx


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

am trying to go away but tickets expensive as hell...


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## debster (Apr 23, 2007)

Hello every1  
Dunno if I'm a poor responder - Can any1 sort this out, don't get much help outta my clinic. I'm wondering if I have low reserve. My CD 3 FSH is 5.7. On my baseline I had 4 follies that they could see and on my 2nd I had 6. They told me I will not get any more now. That seems low to me. Is it likely I have low reserve? Cant even find anything out off internet, just that FSH is an indicator


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

Debster, your FSH sounds great!

I personally think that it's quality that counts, you could end up with 6 good eggs in there.  Try not to be disheartened, there could be some hiding also.  Some people might end up with tons of eggs but they might all be bad quality.  So try not to worry about the numbers all you need is one good one.

Good luck

x


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Debster...an FSH level of 5.7 IU/l is excellent !

If you use search facility on this website you will find loads of threads with information on FSH levels...I know because I replied to most of them 

As Lincs Jax says...and the replies on your post on Peer Support have agreed, 6 follies is good.

It really is quality over quantity as I've said on my other reply to you.

I've had 10 eggs and 7 fertilise on 1st IVF 2 years ago but since then we've had 19 eggs and 10 fertilise, 16 eggs and 8 fertilise and this time 30 eggs and 14 fertilise.....so much better to get lower number and better quality than my ovaries which go into overdrive, produce lots of follies and eggs but are poorer quality (although this is also due to my age as I'm 39).  I understand it's easy to be disheartened but you've got a good number there.

Take care
Natasha


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

Natasha I see you were in the Cook Islands, I blimmen loved it there absolute paradise!  Especially Atutaki!  Very jealous!

xx


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## debster (Apr 23, 2007)

Thanks for replies. I'm really pleased bout my 6 and I'm goin for some good quality. Just been wondering last few days whether I could be running out of eggs


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

debster said:


> Thanks for replies. I'm really pleased bout my 6 and I'm goin for some good quality. Just been wondering last few days whether I could be running out of eggs


With an FSH level of 5.7 IU/l you're fine....nothing to worry about...unless you have particularly high oestrogen levels which can suppress FSH.....sure you're fine...but if you're concerned then speak with your consultant. 



Lincs Jax said:


> Natasha I see you were in the Cook Islands, I blimmen loved it there absolute paradise! Especially Atutaki! Very jealous!
> 
> xx


We didn't go to Atutaki but stayed on Rarotonga. We'd like to go to Atutaki next time....my parents live in New Zealand so stop over on way back ! Absolute paradise ! 

Take care
Natasha


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## debster (Apr 23, 2007)

Natasha, thanks. Ya know ya stuff!


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Am going away tom to Tenerife...  hopefully will get a bit better as feeling v. low at the mo...


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Inc- are you going alone?


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Yes.  dh has to work... I just need to recuperate away from home... I will be stayin with a mate, though...who is out there... £338 for the ticket, which is loads...but need a break...off to start packing and have some brekkie...Also pound only 2.15 or sth ...


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Good for you Connie -  you deserve a break!


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Inc- it will do you good to get away, forget the cost of it and try and make some you time x x


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

Debster, 5.7 is indeed a low (ie good) fsh assuming e2 is also within range. however, there is increasing evidence that the medical profession is moving away from fsh as amh is a more reliable indicator. for example, the lister is not terribly interested in fsh anymore.  have you had amh done?


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

Inc, it will do you good to get away from normality for a bit.  Hope you have a lovely time and safe journey hun.  You take care of yourself.

Jxx


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## debster (Apr 23, 2007)

Hi Anna, I don't know if I've had amh done. When I first went back for a consultation after my bloods, the nurse said to me- ya hormones are really good, loads of eggs in your basket. Only since found out that FSH was 5.3, 5.3 and 5.7 on the 3 tests. I have also found out I have 6 follies. I got a bit annoyed that the nurse said that to me cuz I believed it (ya wanna believe it). I find it all confusing, especially when the clinic only give ya snippets and ya gotta drag the info about ya own body outta em! on the other hand, ignorance is bliss I suppose


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## Terry (Feb 24, 2005)

AMH is useful.  My FSH is really good, but only after 3 IVFs was my AMH done...and it was lousy!  So it's good to know and some say it's a better predictor than FSH of ovarian reserve.


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## alegria (Dec 10, 2007)

Inc - It'll be really good for you to go away for a little while - enjoy!  

Debster - If I'm not wrong someone has previously mentioned here on this thread that AMH levels can give a better indication of ovarian reserve whereas FSH results is more to do with potential egg quality. But I believe that a good protocol could still get you to produce a reasonable number of good quality eggs independent of both test results.

Alegria x


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi all

Debster, I'm with Alegria on this!

Also, even here in France where they can be a bit backwards, they rely on AMH rather than FSH as an indicator of egg reserve now.

Can I ask what level of stimms you were on?

x


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## debster (Apr 23, 2007)

Hi Alegria   Hope that my low FSH means good quality then  

Nixf, I am on 225 of puregon. They only wrote my fsh score on my sheet so I don't know what my amh was, if they did it


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

It's reasuring to hear that more people think AMH is a better indicator than FSH.  I was always told that even if your FSH is high, age it the more important factor.  Who knows.

Does anyone know if Menopur is better than Gonal F and do high does of stims affect egg quality?

The results are in for my NK assay, my levels look normal, so it just goes to show that I have know idea what my body is up to and this time it must have been down to embryo quality.

I have this funny theory and you all may think that I am a little  , but I wonder if some people can only get pregnant at a certain time of the year?  I know tons of people who on conceiving naturally could only get pregnant at a certain time of the year and have had their babies in the same month, if you see what I mean.  Maybe I am losing the plot!  BUT it does make me wonder if there is something to this theory.  If they got pregnant at other times of the year they have miscarried or not got pregnant.

Do Jinamed do natural cycle IVF does anyone know?

xx


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

lincs that's good re NK cells. 

Re gonal f and menopur, the former is pure FSh and the latter is a recombinant mixture of fsh and lh. i asked this very question of the lister last week and was told that sometimes menopur is better in that for some people it is able to prevent very early miscarriages. however, for the icsi patients (lets make the leap and assume that means those have predominantly MF and quite good eggs) there is no difference. i take that to mean - menopur can improve certain aspects if you need it but if you have good eggs anyway, it makes no difference.  

re NK cells by the way i asked about this too as i was convinced that our grandmothers had children easily in their 40s owing to their anti embryo immune systems being suppressed by previous children. i was told there is a tiny % of women with immune issues but nothing like the claims and also that measuring what a problem level actually consists of is almost impossible. (which is your experience today i think) 

HTH


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

I don't know as much about these things as others but my understanding is that AMH may give a better long term picture, while FSH gives the short term outlook.  

I know I sound like a broken record on this but my wildly fluctuating AMH (which isn't supposed to fluctuate) has made me a bit of a sceptic as to its reliability.  They still don't know what other factors influence it and many clinics both here here and in the US still won't offer it.  But I know other people think it's the holy grail so I'll leave it there!

My take is that there are a lot of factors which go into response and many of these are unknown. 

With your FSH they may have simply started you on too low a dose of stims.  Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason why someone is a poor or good responder.  It may be that they just need to give you slightly higher doses, try the short protocol or use a different type of stim.  The ladies here will probably be able to help on the best stims for someone who doesn't respond as well as they might have hoped.


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

Jenny, hmm interesting, do you mind if i ask what your fluctuating levels were, roughly?


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a b***** mine field eh?

The thing is even if AMH is low, then I wonder how many eggs that is, we are born with thousands aren't we and all you need is a good un, so I am not sure I even believe in the realibility of getting it tested to be honest.  Just another thing to worry about.

I won't get mine done as I'm too scared! 

x


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

what is the most amazing thing is that we are prepared to pay a fortune to learn inconclusive facts and take treatments that have <100% success rates. 

imagine going into tesco 

us: i'd like  a baby please. 
tesco: we'll try to send you a baby but we only have 30% success rates with babies these days so it might just be a series of injections and operations. that ok with you?
us: yes brilliant thanks very much, i'll jsut go off and remortgage my house to do it.

if you or anyone else does get AMH done, remember LISTER ( lots of older women for whom AMH is important) says - once you get to ET, a big caveat i suppose, you have same success rate if mebryo grading is same. ie AMH predicts response to stimms not quality.


xx


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

Here here!

I tell you what I could have had a very very nice car by now and not be driving round in a clapped out old golf!

x


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

i tell you with utter certainty that your consultant is not driving around in an old car!


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Anna - no problem sharing my bizarre results!!

My AMH was 1.6 first month - not brilliant but not a disaster.  Since there are no "normal" results yet my paperwork simply says that "in a survey of 96 normal women AMH ranged from 1.2 to 9.4".  This is about 8.5-67.1 on the pmol scale.  So, although not fab the doc reassured me it was normal.  Inhibin B test that month was a disaster zone - undetectable when, again, while there are not "normal" results yet, "over 45 is a favourable indicator".

Fast forward a month and my AMH test was 0.4 and so had utterly collapsed.  My inhibin B on the other hand had rocketed up to 52 - so in the favourable indicator range.

Before my consultation in month 2 my doctor consulted a colleague and they both rang the lab (twice) to check the results.  She confirmed that both of these tests are not supposed to fluctuate!  The only reason they were repeated was accidental - they like to check the FSH for another month and I happened to ask for a repeat of all the tests I'd had the previous month.  Ordinarily they don't redo inhibin B and AMH.

The clinic are bemused enough to offer me a repeat of these two for free but to be honest I was too angry at the time.  I just said that if these tests are not supposed to fluctuate then either they are unreliable or they are being poorly performed or there are other unknown factors which are affecting them.  Whichever is the case they all point to, in my particular case, them not being worthwhile so, l said I would have to think about whether I wanted to troop back for such tests.  That said, I am calmer now so may redo them next month.  

My antral follicle count and FSH were fine on both months.  When we discussed egg freezing my doc's take was that she expected me to respond well but, given the erratic AMH and inhibin B, she wouldn't start me on the lowest possible dose of stims which she would have done based on FSH alone.

It's probably just me being annoyed but I get a bit concerned when I see it being bandied around that AMH and inhibin B "don't fluctuate" - mine did!  I've also seen someone else post on this site whose AMH went up from 1.4 to 2.4 in a year.  That shouldn't happen either!

When I went to the Zita West clinic they were very cautious on both AMH and inhibin B.  They said they still don't know where they fit in in terms of other hormones, what other factors could influence them etc. and said they had seen some "off the wall" results and too many people coming in in a right tizzy assuming the'll respond poorly because of low AMH or inhibin B, only to end up doing fine.  They also said they have seen "new" tests come and go and goalposts move.  

So overall I have to admit I am a bit sceptical.  That said, I do think it is something worth asking for if your FSH appears good!  If FSH only is tested and is good then chances are that someone will automatically be on a low dose of stims.  If you get a little more information then you have a better chance of getting the right dose.  In my case. even if it is erratic, at least, come June, I won't be on the lowest possible dose of stims, which my FSH would have indicated.

My take on all this tends to be that there are a lot of unknowns here and the fact that we are debating various tests tells you that none of them are perfect.  If one was reliable then that is the one we'd all have and it would tell us all we needed to know!!   

My sister's clinic doesn't offer AMH but she didn't do too badly with a god awful FSH.


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

Jenny, you're hilarious. 

WHAT ARE THESE PEOPLE ON?

they truly have no shame taking our money and giving us sweet nothing back. 

xxx


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## Button76 (Dec 30, 2006)

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to say thanks to LittleJenny for sharing her AMH knowledge.  You appear to be a guru!!  I found out my AMH was 11 on Tuesday and FSH 6.5.  I thought my world was going to collapse (OK, maybe not but it was still a bit of a shock) but you have made me feel a whole lot better about things.  Start sniffing next week so hopefully starting next month, I guess only time will tell.

Good Luck to everyone and to your sister LittleJenny.

Button xxx


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Button - I think I'm more an obsessive than a guru!  What I mainly think is that no single test can tell you everything!  It seems to me there are a lot of unknown factors out there!  My sister was told that she had a high chance of a cancelled cycle with her ghastly FSH and she got 5 eggs - all fertilised, 2 transferred and 2 frosties (one grade 1 and one grade 2).  Not a vast number but more and better quality than her FSH would suggest.    

All my doc would say about my AMH was that i probably wouldn't be reproducing like Cherie Blair in my 40s.  Then she added that she couldn't actually tell for certain!!!  

Anyway, we should be celebrating Bugle today!!   

Hope everyone is well.  Spoke to Kate again today and she is still relaxing and just   that Bill and Ben stick around!  I know it's a bit optimistic but I can't help but be hopeful.


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## bugle (Dec 26, 2007)

crikey - new thread and I am confused!

Anyway - just a quickie...

Ophelia   I have pmd you

Steph I hope you have a good trip back and really feel for you... like others said previously it is weird that both of you had trouble? Could it be BCP?

Gabs - I hope you are OK and lots of positive energy coming your way 

Laura I hope Dh finds his passport

Mirr - I love the new picture and can't believe how big bob thebump has got in the last few weeks!!!

Inc have a lovely holiday.

Merse and Beach  

and everyone else good luck with all the stims and 2wws.

Thanks for all the well wishes- hope I manage to keep up with everyone a bit better from now on


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi all,

just to let you know have made it home this afternoon safe and sound - is nice to be home but I am exhausted after getting up very early after a bad night's sleep and it has hit me that I have come home under very different circumstances to what we expected - ie a couple of embies on board with us  This wasn't helped by having a really cute toddler sat next to us on the plane home! So a bit of a crash down to earth really (I knew it had to come eventually!  ) ... so sad also to read Ophelia's news...

*Ophelia* - I am so very sorry for you and your DH  - Paul and I really, really hoped it was your time, it was great to meet you both in Istanbul, and we send lots of love and best wishes for whatever you decide to do next  So sad for you 

*Lolli* - sending you lots of  and    - hope you two and your lovely boy are managing to have some fun together - hope the move to the Taslik went OK 

*Jax* - was it you who asked if Jinemed do natural IVF? - the answer is yes they do - is what they have suggested for me next - send me a PM or join us on the Jinemed thread if you need any info 

I'm sure I'll have my positive head back on once I've had some sleep! 

Back later or tomorrow to do some personals xx

Steph xx


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Ophelia so sorry  
Beach any news?
Steph welcome home sorry it couldn't be with your embies  Get some sleep 
Love to all xxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Merse- the scan is still showing something so EC is planned for Saturday at 10.30

Steph- welcome home


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

How about the womb is that OK now? Good news for ET  xx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

No the womb lining is showing that theres something not right so after EC they'll use a camera to try and investigate more.


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Lets hope it sorts itself out by then.   xxx


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Beachy - glad they are still moving forward to EC

Steph - glad you are home safely  

Ophelia - I don't think I have said yet how very sorry I am.  

hi there merse - hope you are ok!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Evening all!

I won't type too much as I feel dodgy-bellied and odd!

Beach - I hope whatever it is turns out to be nothing and that you can have ET all right.

Merse - hello dear! Good to see you about - I've missed you!

Steph - welcome back. You're bound to feel let down and strange being back like this - hope you feel better soon.

Bugle - how are the symptoms?

Mrs O - it ain't over yet. Get a glass of WJ down your neck tonight.  

Button -why were you distressed about those results? They're fine!

LilJen - you are the only person I've heard of with fluctuating AMH! I guess there are exceptions to every rule.

Jax - I think that's a fair think tothink - after all, how many people do you know with two or more children all born about the same time of year? Maybe one day there'll be a test that gives you the optimum month.

Right - that's me at the bottom of the page - can't remember any further back than that!

Nicks - how's that bumpilicious bump?

Laura - wotcha! Are you doing anything this w/e? Kitchen finished?

Anyone watching Come Dine With Me? I love it...

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

hello all,

typing with one hand as cat wanting a cuddle!

am feeling bit better today.

ophelia - so so so sorry. please look after yourself. 

Steph - Think the grief takes a few days to kick in, take good care of yourself, I'm here if you need me.

Merse - how you doing chickie?

Beachy -  

Gab - Howyou feeling? 

Mirra - You snoozing?

Liljen, Nicks, Nix, Inc, Bugle and everyone I have forgotten...hello!

there you are Mirra!


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

Beach, glad EC is sceduled for Sat wishing you lots of luck.

Steph, welcome home, I hope you are OK.  Yes it was me that asked about natural IVF, how much is it?

I know loads of people Miranda, whose kids were born in the same month, you never know in the future maybe one day they will be able to test for it.

Laura, glad you are feeling a bit more chipper.

Ophelia, thinking of you hun.

I am off to bed, have a stinking headache, think it's the weaning off steroids.  Have also started bleeding, but not too painful.

Night all!
xx

p.s. Is the short protocol supposed to be better for us PR girls?


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

*Beachy* - really hope that the something turns out to be nothing to worry about and that all goes ahead as it should    good luck 

*Lincs Jax *- my younger brother and I were both born in September - have wound my Mum up in the past asking her if they only did the deed when drunk at Christmas!  I also have an older brother born in April though.

When we worked it out money-wise, it comes to about £2300 for Natural IVF with ICSI at the Jinemed (if we get as far as EC + ET - plus a bit extra if we have some Gonal-F for a couple of days before EC ie controlled natural cycle) including 3* hotel accommodation for 7 nights. This price also includes scans/consults x 3 in London at Portland Hospital days 3, 6 and 9 to study follicle for that month and make sure all OK to go ahead and fly to Turkey. Flights to Istanbul would be extra. So you get a week away in a great city as part of the process - we loved it there and found it a lot more relaxing than having treatment at home. They also do assisted hatching as part of the price if your embie could do with it.

To compare with UK prices:

Geeta Nargund at Create charges £2390 for natural ICSI (except she doesn't seem to do natural ICSI hardly ever - usually ends up doing "mild" stimms - around 225 units a day mark I think  (correct me if I am wrong Juicy/Inc - so you end up paying for the drugs too).

LFC charge £2800 + £1k ICSI (shocking when you think they are only gonna inject one egg!) plus the meds plus the bloods. So nearly as expensive as going the whole hog with some clinics!

Steph xxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Hello,

Right I need some help.

I am away in just under 2 weeks, first week on my own, what shall I tell people?  Mainly my family who need to know I'mnot around as they text and email me at work (and so will have an out of office from me), can't pretend me and tim away for the whole time as we close to my folks and they may bump into eachother.  Any ideas? 

XX


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

You could say you're meeting a pal out in Istanbul for a week, then having a week with Tim?


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Steph - the above price at the LFC is for full ivf.. They just do low stimms if you request it... They have special offer but with conditions...

Geeta - charges theprice you say but she gives u 150 gonal f for the last 4 days approx in a controlled natural cycle...  A mildly stimmed cycle is different and costs more...

Hello gang... Am packing and need to sleep a few hours before going....


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Yeah I was thinking that... you think it sounds an odd set up? Istanbul is an odd place to go for 3 weeks?  Was thinking of pretendin I was away with mate somewhere else first.  Although maybe I'm best to stick as close to the truth as possible.. less room for cock ups!


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Oops sorry Inc - I just looked back at the conversation we had the other day on the Jinemed thread re natural IVF and copied the prices you gave me then. Didn't realise LFC don't actually do natural IVF. Have a great holiday 

Sooo Jax .... Geeta at Create is offering natural controlled ICSI for £2390 - and Jinemed offers natural controlled ICSI incl 7 nights accommodation for £2300 (then add flights to Istanbul).

Laura - always think it best to stick to truth as closely as possible just in case, but keep it vague when telling them about it - Istanbul is a HUGE city with plenty to do/see so 3 weeks wouldn't be too long to be there in my opinion, especially if you was "meeting friends" 

Steph xx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

I think I may say my friend has people out there that we are seeing first, then sigtseeing with Tim after?  Passport update: he has caled today and cancelled it, they are sending him an appointment to go and get new one!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh that's good - he's actually doing something about it! That would have infuriated me too.

Steph - are you feeling a little better? Do you have to wait for AF to do your natural cycle?

xxxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Morning Team PR

Thank goodness it's Friday.....had my HCG last night, that went fine apart from slight panic from DH about the amount.  Got a rash at injection site which I can't remember having before.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I remember that one being quite stingy! So it's prob just irritation from the puncture wound Beach.

So, are you feeling ok about it all? How many do you think you'll get?


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

Hi all

Steph - welcome home.   I'm so sorry it's not under better circumstances   

Ophelia - so sad about your news.     

Inc - have a lovely holiday, you deserve it.  

Mirr - fab bump!

Laura - can you sya it's a business trip but you are tagging some holiday onto it so Tim can come too?

Hi everyone else I've missed. xx

Well last night was a scary one. We went out for our anniversary and ended up eating quick and coming home  as I suddenly developped really bad period pain type cramps. I was almost in tears in the restaurant as so scared. I've had crazmps on and off since E/T but more like ovulation pain. This was like full on period pain. 
Anyway, we came home and I have been awake most of the night with it. Still got it now but not so bad. I took an extra Dephawotsit pill (clinic say do that if bleed) just in case before I went to bed and this morning no bleeding and cervix still soft. Temp still up but not suprising as I had such a bad night.  I feel shattered so have taken the day off. Mgr will go mad but I am not taking any risks!

Am I right in thinking that AF pain is the lining of the uterus coming away in a normal cylce? I am so worried this has really scared me. I have tried to be positive so far throughout, even when I was Mrs Grumpy earlier in the week but last night I was so scared. I even felt sick this morning cos of the stress I think. 

Am I complete woos?   Is full on AF pain normal? I have looked on google and it all seems to refer to mild cramping. I was doubled up on the floor but I contemplated a paracetemol but resisted! I ended up doing reiki most of the night.

As we just get one shot, the fear now is overwhelming.... 

Sorry to be dreary.

Sleepy Spoony x


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Spoony   make sure you get lots rest today   

Mir- I'm ok about things, can't really do anything till EC tomorrow and then see what happens, if there's no risk for me then I'm going go with having embryos put back (that's if we get some eggs, they fertilise and divide).


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Spoony - the other ladies here will probably be able to help you better but speaking to Kate she was told to expect some possibly severe cramping, so, even if yours has been mild so far, I wouldn't say this is a "bad sign".


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I found a lot of the pain came from the ovaries Spoons - don't forget, your ovaries have been messed about with and your cervix has been punctured by the ET. If there's no bleeding I would say that you don't need to worry. When is test day?

Beach - God, I so hope it all goes well tomorrow and they fertilise - it's a nightmare, all these little chunks of waiting for the worst to happen.  

xxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Mir- I don' think that until anyone has been through tx they understand how critical each stage of the procedure is.  I was worrying at the beginning of this cycle about bleeding before test date as it's my friends wedding that day but here I am and I'm not even sure that we'll be able to get any eggs and then deal with this 'thing' ....feel quite bloated today as well and still got my b****y rash where injected!


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

Thanks Ladies and Beach good luck tomorrow!    for eggies. xxx

Test day is Thur so ages to go. The pain is more central now than ovaries. I am hoping that according to this link that someone posted before (Minxy or Mirranda?) http://www.visembryo.com/baby/5.html it says that Trophoblast cells continue to engulf and destroy cells of the uterine lining creating blood pools and stimulating new capillaries to grow - beginning the growth of the placenta. So I'm  that last nights pain was my Trophoblasts digging in!     

Will take it easy today tho. My manager is going to be furious and I have my appraisal in 2 weeks  But I would have been no good at work today on about 2 hours sleep!

LJ how's Kate? Where are the other ladies on the 2ww? Cath?

Off to do some more reiki. x

/links


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Spoony

Loads of ladies get AF like symptoms and even some spotting/bleeding during 2ww and still go on to get BFP.

Have a look at these polls on Voting board but also use the search facility on this FF website as you'll see there are many many threads discussing it, especially on 2ww board.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=37504.0;viewResults

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=49694.0

Good luck
Natasha


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## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Steph, welcome home.  I am so sorry it isn't the home coming you wanted but excellent you have a plan and a plan that involves another week in Instanbul. Hurray!   

Lolly/Gabs, thinking of you having your final scan today (hope I remembered that right).  Hope you've had some special times in Istanbul with your DH and DS and the sun has shined on you.   

Babyspoons, analysing the pain is a nightmare. It could be anything. As Mirra said the drugs and the EC and ET are pretty full on.  I get AF twinges and pains from about 7 days before.  Sometimes they burn sometimes, they stab, sometimes they ache from anyway from my groin to my shoulder.  I had exactly the same all three times I was pregnant.  I think the pain means nothing.  Sending loads of   

Ophelia, lots more cyber   to those you've already got. Let us know how you are when you get a mo'.

Beach, thinking about you and sending loads of     for EC.  You're so right that it's one thing after another with IVF.  And the drs say, "relax"!!!!!

Bugle, CONGRATULATIONS!   

Laura, I reckon say you're going on a 3 week belly dancing course and you'll be giving demonstrations on what you've learnt when you get back, for a small fee in advance.  That way you could get some extra spending money.  Not really!  I holiday with a friend and Tim coming a bit later 'cos he can't get all the time off becuase of his new job sounds credible.

Mirra, bob the bump is bloomin' beautiful, as are you. 

Jax, glad you got your bloods back so fast.  I know it's good to have an answer, but the fact they were normal must be a got thing. Hoping you're not feeling to awful with the bleed.  

Juicy, well done on the ET.   

Me, I've had a rubbish few days.  Horrible AF.  Horrible tummy trouble.  And now I seem to have started getting mouth ulcers when I get my AF.  I'm resisting the temptation to Google it as if I look for 4 hours I'll manage to find some article that says it's a sign of an early menopause which will send me into a major panic  .  Then DH will confiscate the computer (again).  I'm also starting a new piece of work which is going to be horrible but I have to do it as we need the money.  There's a nasty lady who insists on getting my name wrong on every e-mail she writes to me.  Why can't we win the Euromillions?  Started the Buserilin last night and will start the Menopur tonight.  Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!

LOL to eveyone I've missed.

xxxx


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2008)

Francie - Good luck with the stimms  

Mrs O -   so sorry  

Beachy - Sorry to hear about your rash    I have everything crossed for tomorrow   

LB - Glad Tim is sorting out his passport.  I think Mira's idea about visiting friends is a good one.

Spoony - I had AF pains with both my BFP's     

Merse -  

Steph - Glad you got back ok   

Hello to everyone else  

Got a stinking cold - think I've caught it from my nephew.  Haven't had a cold for years - forgot how grim they are.

Off to see friends in sunny Croydon tonight.

xxxx


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

Francie, good luck with the stims,   hope af eases off, I have loads of mouth ulcers too. 

Steph, thanks for the info, very helpful, although I think I am in a catch 22 situation as I don't think I would be able to get immune treatment out there and I am not sure my clinic would treat me if I went abroad.  It's one obstacle after another.  When will you go out there?

Spoons, it's around now that you might get implantation pains, and they can be quite horrendous just like AF is about to show, I know stress aggravated mine so try and relax. 

Beach, good luck for EC tomorrow  

Feeling p'd off today the bleeding has eased off and I need to get HCG checked on Monday, just want it all over now    Getting equally frustrated, if I do have to go down the donor route I would only want to go abroad for this, as I am half Greek anyway, but if I can't get the treatment for the immune stuff then I am stuffed!

Jx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I think mouth ulcers are a sign of stress, jax and Francie - which compromises you immune system. Get some high-potency manuka honey and some echinacea to build your immune system back up, I'd say.

I think Reprofit would do immunes Jax, wouldn't they?

Ugh - a cold Em, yuk! Still, must be lovely to be home.

Spoons -are you testing early? I tested every day from day 9 after EC - to take the fear out of it.

Beach - crikey, a wedding on test day? Yowsers! I guess that means you can either be celebrating wonderful news or getting bladdered?  

Sorry it's short - must pop off and train up two of my corries to use the website.

be back later!

xxxxxx


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

Really? Did you have HCG injection too? I thought that gave false readings? When did you get a postive? I am desperate to but worried about false readings. Which brand? The one I got from the clinic is the same as Clear Blue apparently but there are so many! So if I'm 8 dpt and my babies are 10 days old.....is it too early?

I'm feeling more positive now, thinking that the pain last night was those beanies burrowing deeper! This whole thing is so surreal!

Spoony x


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Spoony - I'll try and speak to Kate today to see how she is doing.  Her test date is the day after yours (same day as Alegria) so she'll be at a similar stage to you.  That said, it seems to be the case that everyone is different!


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

Thanks Miranda,

I have emailed them to see if they do it, it's so cheap as well!  I am swaying towards going abroad.

xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Spoons - My original intention was to catch the HCG while it was in my system then test till the tests were negative, then from then on I knew if it was positive it was a BFP. But I didn't catch the trigger - they were negative till day 12 after EC.

Techically you could start testing now as it's four days before your next AF date - which is 14 days after ovulation (EC) and the Clearblue and First response can give you a positive this early. BUT the important thing is not to despair if it's negative - only after day 14 will you get the most accurate readings even on those tests.

Great Jax - it's so good mentally to get straight back on the horse, so to speak. I hear there's a waiting list for donor at Reprofit, but if you're doing you own eggs there isn't I think.

LilJen - is Kate still feeling pretty positive?

xxxxx


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

COuld I get a false positive now?


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Miranda - I think Kate is feeling very positive indeed.  Obviously we are all   for a BFP this time but they key thing is that she has a renewed hope that even if it doesn't happen this time, a BFP is possible!  Beforehand, even though she tried to stay positive, she really thought that there would be no response or, even if there were, her eggs would just be too poor in quality to fertilise.  So getting this far has been a huge boost.  I'm hoping that a newly happy environment will encourage the embies to stick around.


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

How does the HCG as progesterone support and testing work I'm having that this cycle if we manage to get a green light tomorrow.

Mir- I know have a wedding next Saturday as well, I'd been invited to the night do and now I've been upgraded to the day as another couple have dropped out!  Not sure how I'll cope with wedding on test date if it's bad news, planning to leave around 6ish though.


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

Hi Beach,

How are you feeling? I'd test before Saturday!! Then you can celebrate on Sat your BFP!!!

I just read somewhere that the HCG can affect the result...

When is the earliest I can do a home pregnancy test (HPT)? 
It is very tempting to do a home pregnancy test before the one scheduled by your clinic. However if you had an hCG injection (the one 2 days before your retrieval) it could take up to 2 weeks for the hCG to leave your system. If you have received hCG boosters it could take even longer. If you test while the hCG from the injection is still in your system you could get a false positive. You could also get a false negative if the hCG from the injection has left your system and the hCG produced by the implanted embryo isn't strong enough yet. If you do decide to do an HPT, please realize that it is not a conclusive result and that you should always have your cycle results confirmed by your clinic

Am  for a BFP for you!!!

Spoony x


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

*Spoony*...

...yes, the HCG injection can stay in your body for up to 14 days so can give false +ve results. We all eliminate the drugs from our systems at varying rates so where one woman may have none in her body at maybe 8 days past the jab, another may still have some up to 13/14 days past. I know there's lots of ladies who test early (like Miranda  ) but personally I just think it adds unnecessary anxiety as no way of knowing, if you do get a +ve, whether it's the jab or genuine...and if you get a -ve then you start getting upset when it could just be too early ! I've been there...not early testing but having the stress over whether was HCG or genuine as I had 2 HCG injections as support during 2nd FET...as it turned out it was genuine but an early miscarriage/chemical pregnancy but it was such an heartbreaking week, added to with the not knowing ! Also, the tests that say you can use up to 4 days before AF due are actually only 65/69% accurate when used early (it's in the smallprint).
Obviously it's up to you though...good luck either way 

*Beach*...

...as I just mentioned to Spoony, I had the HCG injections during 2ww of 2nd FET. It was a natural FET so ovulated fine and had naturally high progesterone but I was given a top of progesterone with cyclogest (or was it crinone, or was it both...can't remember now !). As well as that I had HCG jabs at 3dpt and 8dpt. The way it works is that the HCG injections "trick" your body into thinking your pregnant and so triggers your ovaries to keep producing progesterone.

Good luck
Natasha


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Thanks for your replies...Minxy- does having the HCG as support throughout the 2ww change the test date?? I'm confused


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

hello again beach 

Yes, it should change the test date as can give false positive.

I was told to still test at 14dpt (as our clinic does) but obviously I'd had HCG at 3dpt (250mcg) and 8dpt (250mcg) so when tested was getting faint +ve's.  As it was, we also had HCG blood tests at 14dpt and 16dpt which showed HCG dropped but were too high to be from the jab...and I continued to get +ve's until around 19dpt and because of other "things" that happened that happened after 19dpt (won't go into detail  ) our consultant confirmed it was a chemical pregnancy and not from the injection.

It was all so confusing and obviously upsetting cos we didn't know what was going on.

I would speak with your consultant and see what they advise.

Good luck
Natasha


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Thanks Minxy- hadn;t asked them yet as obviously it all depends on tomorrows outcome....


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi

on the early testing debate, I'm a serial early tester!  I can't see the point in prolonging the agony, especially if you have done the test to see if the HCG is gone then after that you know any positive you get is a true one (even if it DOES turn out to be chemical).  

The trick is not to be disheartened if you see negatives all the way up until test date cos it as been known for ladies to test neg with a peestick and get a pos on the blood test the same day. I believe this is cos the levels of HCG in the blood are more concentrated than in the urine. So yeah, a negative doesn't necessarily mean it hasn't worked and a positive could well turn out to be a chemical pregnancy - I KNOW this but I would still prefer to test early.  If I see a negative then I tell myself, never mind, try again tomorrow, I don't assume it's all over cos for me, it's not until I see the results of the official blood test.  I mean why hang on until 14dpt if you can find out if it's positive at 10dpt?  That's doing yourself out of 4 days of joy as far as I'm concerned! Also, I had a chem pregnancy last time which is the closest I've ever been to being pregnant but if I hadn't tested early, I'd never have known. I can't tell you how much of a relief it is to me to know that it CAN happen, after all these years of negative pee sticks and thinking it was just impossible.

Also I think it makes a difference if you've been pregnant before, you already know that you can do it.  I on the other hand was being told that my eggs are rubbish and that I needed a donor and I'd never seen a pos pregnancy test, it was all very disheartening to put it mildly!

Obviously this is just my personal opinion and everybody is different but I'm an early tester and always will be! So I'm sure you can imagine my joy when I went to pick up my drugs t'other day and saw a BOGOF on Clearblue peesticks, you know I went for it!

So Spoony love, go with the flow, do what works for you.  Some people can't see the point in testing early and even find it disheartening, others feel the opposite, it's all down to personal choice honey

Yo BG, stay cool hon, not long to go!

Minxy, or Chicken-Licken as I think I'm going to call you  what dosage of HCG did you take at 3 and 8 dpt?  My guy had me on 750iu each time, but I took it on days 3 and 5.  Are you doing the same thing this time?  Also how are you feeling hon?  Not too bloated I hope... AND NO HOOVERING, or else it'll be  for you my girl!!!

xxx


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

Thanks ladies. I'll try and resist a few more days (have not tests at home anyway apart from the clininc one).    I think if I tested tomorrow for eg. it's too late to know if it's HCG or not.
Cramps not so bad just tired now from being awake most of the night, so glad it's the weekend!! Wooo hoooo!! 

Natasha - so many embies!! When is your E/T?  

By the way, what actually is a chemical PG? I think I was thinking it was something else so I'm confused now. 

Spoony x


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

In short it's when you get implantation so your bod but then the pregnancy doesn't progress hon

http://www.babyhopes.com/articles/chemical-pregnancy.html
xxx

/links


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

That's just it,, isn't it? You have to do what will keep YOU sane - it's different for everyone!

For me the fear of doing a test was so strong doing a test a day helped mitigate that fear - I'd never peed on a stick before my first complete tx, and I was 34! So doing lots and lots was a really good way for me to get through it, and I had the same attitude as Nix - ah well, try again tomorrow...

For those on HCG support in the 2WW I wouldn't test with a peestick at all, but wait for the blood test - that would just be too much of a head****, because you'd be bound to pick up some HCG from the jabs.

If it's a chemical I don't see how you can avoid that agony - because your body would give you a positive on test day, which would fairly quickly disappear. Ugh. I do think that's one of the cruellest things that can happen following a tx.

But then, I'd read up on all of that before commencing my peestickathon, so I was aware it could happen. In some ways you worry your butt off through all this knowledge, but in others it helps.

xxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

PS: I found www.peeonastick.com helped....




/links


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## alegria (Dec 10, 2007)

Hi all  

Spoony - I know it's difficult but try not to read too much into symptoms... Today is 6dp2dt for me and apart from mild cramp, sore nipples and a little bit of pinkish discharge (sorry, tmi) for a couple of days after et (far too early for it to be anything to do with implantation, probably more to do with ec still) I haven’t felt anything else since – well, maybe the occasional little stretch in the old ovaries but that’s all. I know myself and if I start worrying about any symptoms (or lack of it) I'm gonna go completely   

Funny that some of you have been advised to test 14 dpt. My clinic has asked me to test 14 days post egg collection NOT et  

I'm also worried about getting a false positive on test day as the trigger may still be in my body ... I had 250.000mcg of Ovitrelle about 35 hrs before ec and I'm a midget, only 5ft 1' and 8st (does anyone know if that makes any difference?). 

As for testing earlier, I’ll desperately try not too but it’s so tempting………..    

Alegria x


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi Alegria

if it's a blood test, you needn't worry and the rule of thumb is that the body gets rid of approx 1000iu of HCG a day. So if you had 10000 just before EC, the average person will have got rid of it 10 days later... if your clinic has told you to test on a specific day, they must be confident that you'll get an accurate result on that day so either way, it's all good 

You sound so chilled hon I've got everything crossed for you lovey!      

How you feeling BG, still listening to your Cd thngie? 321.... _relax_ 
xxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Nix- haven't listened it today no, been completing some work for my mystery shopping assignments online and requsting new ones. I will listen it after dinner though.  Erm, not relaxed no, worried yes!!!


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## alegria (Dec 10, 2007)

Thanks Nix    

My clinic says that the blood test is optional but has asked me to test at home (pee on a stick) 14 days after EC  ... 

Beach - Relax, you'll be fine


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## *Lollipop* (Feb 1, 2007)

Evening Ladies..

Just want to say out of sight but not mind...Im thinking of you all...and wishing you all the very best at this time...
Beach sorry not quite sure what is going on.... ...but Good luck with scans honey ok....          

Merse -  ...hello my dear and how are you?....wishing you all the best sweetie too....xxx...hope counselling helps.. 

Hello to the rest of the gang...Bugle...rest up now Mrs.....!

sorry not many personals...head is all over the place right now...just about to go out for tea...
Tomorrow is D-Day so will wait and see...dh has came up with another suggestion so will see what the Boss man says tomorrow....for now take care everyone and thanks for thinking of us....


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Gabs- jsut seen your post as I was logging off for dinner, just wanted to send my love to you x x


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## cath J. (Nov 1, 2007)

Hello Girls
I'm still here Spoony, just trying to take the whole thing in my stride for now. Your symptons are exactly like what many of us have had and have during 2WW. It's cruel because even if you want to switch off from it all you can't. You may find it useful to peruse the 2ww diaries because you will read of lots of BFPs with AF pains and bleeding during 2WW.  
Beach - you poor thing, you're right, every stage is stressful enough without an added concern. Loads of luck and love for your EC, I'll be thinking of you  
Gab - good luck with your next scan - everything still crossed for you  

Hi to the rest of you. Just waiting for fish and chips takeaway - Yum!!! Bet that's not in Zita West's chapter on diet - Oh well  

Love
Cath
X


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

babyspoons said:


> Natasha - so many embies!! When is your E/T?
> 
> By the way, what actually is a chemical PG? I think I was thinking it was something else so I'm confused now.


Waiting for phone call....hopefully will be blastocyst (5 day) transfer so ET will be on Monday but otherwise will be day 3 with assisted hatcing (tomorrow).

A chemical pregnancy is basically a very early pregnancy. It's where "something" happened and the embie tried to implant and enough to release the HCG hormone but it didn't stick for whatever reason so wasn't a viable pregnancy. A chem pg is only detected on hpt and/or blood test and wouldn't show up on a scan as too early. Sadly I speak through experience as have had 4  An early miscarriage is any pregnancy that happens before 12 weeks.

Lots of luck
Natasha


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## Loui5e (Feb 9, 2005)

Ophelia Just wanted to say how sorry I am to see you got a neg, I hope you have the strenght to carry on to achieve the dream you deserve.

Louise x


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## Pinkytails (Mar 2, 2008)

Hello All,

Just wanted to update you.

If you read my history you'll see that I have today abandoned a cycle of IVF with my own eggs.

I thought with my excellent FHS, previous live births and no symptoms of menopause that it was worth a try.

During todays consult I was told that my very poor response was all down to age, that the clinic has had no live births from women over the age of 43 for a few years (not told this at initial consultation, just pregnancy figures)   

We have spent approx £1800 on this abandoned cycle and are both feeling a little fragile and DH is very angry with clinic for not giving us full facts. We want a baby not a lost pregnancy  

Its time for the clinics to give us the live birth figures and stop making huge amounts of money from a humans beings overwhelming desire to procreate and nurture. My DH's anguish at being childless is our anguish and todays abandonment of our IVF cycle has just added to that.

To all of you I wish you luck, send    to those that need them and will in a few days after some wound licking will head over to the overseas board to fully research our DE options.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Pinky - all the live birth rates with ages are on the HFEA's website - I found them very helpful. Search through and find one with some success in women over 43 - it's got to be worth a shot.

For the record, almost all of the 'miracle baby' stories I've seen in the papers with older mums seem to have involved them going abroad - perhaps due to them being able to put back more embryos? Worth a thought.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Evening girlies,

Alergia - midget!!!  What do you mean!!  I'm 5 1!  Thats tall!  

Beach - Good Luck for tomorow my lovely. 

Ophelia -  

Steph - How you doing?

Gab - Hope you got some follies tom!!  

Mirra - Tim was just looking over my shoulder and said 'oh that lady looks so happy with her big belly'! Ah!

Missed loads... sorry tired.  Just got back frm Brick Lane and tasty curry. Tim has an appointment at the passport office tom, £90 for a replacement!  Oh well at least he is coming and I don't need to finda turkish man as a replacment!!


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi all 

PMA back today after a good night's sleep last night in our own bed 

Have had a pottering about day today, unpacking and washing then food shopping (as the cupboards and fridge were totally bare!) then went to my Mum's this eve to see my folks - they were all so lovely and supportive and we had so much fun playing with my 5 year old nephew - he was so pleased to see us, it really cheered us up 

*Lolli* - have PM'd you - good luck for tomorrow hon, I really hope you don't have to cancel too 
*
Lincs Jax* - is there any way you could sort your own IVIG? - am sure I have read of someone on here having it done at home by some agency - not sure of the logistics or who prescribed it for her - maybe worth posting (fishing!) on the Immunology board to ask advice? or maybe the Multiple Cycle board (think this may be where I read about it before - sorry to be so vague it was a while ago!  )

*Mira* - I have to wait and see what happens this month re period ie will it show up on time or will it have been meesed up by all the drugs I took.  If it shows up on time and is normal then we will probably contact Ugur re going to the Portland on CD3. Think I am due on on the 25th April.

*
Laura* - when will you be out in Turkey till - when is your flight home booked for? Glad Tim is sorting his passport - has he got to go to Peterborough for it?

*Beach* - good luck tomorrow for EC hon - really hope they find some super eggs   

*Ophelia* - hope you and DH are taking it easy and finding some time for yourselves 

 to everybody else - hope you all have a great weekend 

I'll have a crack at the list in a bit! 

Steph xx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Steph - Tim has to go to the passport office in Victoria.  We fly back on the 9th May I think.  Its a saturday night.  When doyou think you will be out again?


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## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

just to add in response to Miranda's amd Pinkytails posts

most of the 'miracle stories' of older women going abroad have had DE ie the latest older mum birth story of the mum of 57.  It wasn't a natural conception but with donor eggs. (It is because they are denied treatment in the uk because of their age and because of shorter waiting lists aboard).

Also Marcia Cross form Desperate Housewives who recently gave birth to twins had De.  She probably was more honest than a lot of celebs mums re how she conceived.

Its a wonderful miracle when older women get pregnant with their own eggs but it is the minority and unfortunatly as young girls are told about periods and babies at school they are not informed of their own fertility and how it declines as we get older (35+). 

When I told my counsellor that if I had known about the facts, I probaby wouldn't have waited so long to try for a baby and that fertility had featured a lot in the papers and TV recently which was not how it used to be, she replied yes, absolutly and why? because the medical profession know that there are too many women out there going to fertility clinics and it is an epidemic, yes seriously.  Most women of this genration have left it too late because of our culture of waiting to start a family.  Of course myself and other women have got married later on in life because we didn't meet the man we wanted to marry until later and not just because we wanted to be career women, but the fact remains that we did not know that we were lowering our chances by delaying because if we did know we would not be in the position most of us are now.

Anyway it is just an afterthought.

Odettex


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Odette - There was celeb in the paper the other day that had twins at 48 can't think who it was and she was wafflng about her healthy lifesyle and I just though 'yeah right.. de!'.  Me and tim have been talkng about it tonight actually, he has been looking on here and saying how sweet we all are supporting eachother!  We were looking at drowned girls twins... you would just love them wouldn't you!  I WANT ONE!!!!


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## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

Laura

I read that some celebs that have had DE could be 
Holly Hunter had twins at 47 
Geena Davies (late 40's)
Jane Seymour(45) 

There was a great quote form Marcia Crossa that was so honest.  I'll find it and post it.

Yes when I saw drowned girls twins I just thought WOW! hence my post here on the board telling everyone to see it.
So many women have been given a second chance  (20yrs ago there was no such thing as DE)  We are living in an amazing times, let me tell you! that we can have children when in reality we can't.   

odettex

ps it's good that you talked - it's healthy


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Laura,

if I get AF on time (25th April) then we would fly around 9/10 (so long as follie looks good to go for that month  ) - so around the 4th I think - would depend on whether the London clinic do scans at weekend though - if not it might be out by a couple of days - so we would see you for last days of your trip hopefully!   

Do you have anyone to meet up with there yet? I think Tweetie might still be out there - think she was going for a month but didn't hear from her when I was out there - maybe worth PMing her to see if she is still out there when you go?

Also - do you have a link to pics of drownedgirl's twins?

Steph xx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Yeah its takes some talkng about de.  Its seems silly you search all your life to find the person you want to have a baby with and then end up creating one with someone you've never met!!  Youjust have to get over the fact of genetics, I think that women maybe find that easier than men?  Or maybe thats just me?  I think it was holly hunter that i read about.

Tim has just found his passport!!!  But he cancelled it yest and has to go all the way to london and pay £90 tom to replace it!! Oh dear!


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

I'll sort a link for you in a mo.

Its the grand pri the weekend of the 9/10th so watch for hotel prices...Gonan prices doubled that weekend!!  Oh good hopefully we will get to meet up... depending if I get to EC etc... if not will be too much of a wreck!!


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## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

here's what Marcia Cross said

She said, "I don't like the average woman being misled into thinking that fertility is something that goes on forever. When a woman gets older, they get a donor egg, which doesn't make the baby any less beautiful or perfect. One's own eggs only last so long, and sometimes at 43 or 44 you can have your own baby, but statistically it's very difficult and expensive. You don't want to wait that long."


odettex


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=136158.0

Scroll down to the link at the bottom of the frst page.


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Odette - I'm only 31.  Not fair.


----------



## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

Laura   
oh honey I don't know why this is happening.

Do you know what I think

from your history you have had an ectopic and I have had a couple myself - what if the eggs we had didn't travel along the fallopian tube because they didn't have the intelliegence to - what I mean is  abnormal  what if they have abnormalities that meant they spared us.  Well I know enough to link poor egg quality and low implantation  to suggest abnormal eggs so what i'm saying is if the abnormal eggs that didn't implant might have saved us from an abnormality later on in the future.  

I would rather have a healthy DE child than have my own child with a disability or Downs Sydrome.  I would like to think that nature spared me from maybe having a child that wasn't meant to be.

What I say may not be agreeable to you but it could have some truth in it.

What do you think?

odettex


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Unfortuately I seem to have had an infection this wrecked my tubes, so I have caused all this myself. I don't think anything wrong with my eggs at that point.... my own silly fault, killed my own baby.


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## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

Laura

Oh honey You mustn't blame yourself -  how can you punish yourself in this way. 

You talk about an infection - is this what you were told? 

People say an ectopic can come from an infection but I don't think thats always true.

odettex


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

No was an infection they told me after my surgery, must have been there symptomless for years.  So yes is my own silly fault.  I'll always blame myself. 

All silly sad now.  I feel like I'm being punished.  I hope I've been punished enough now.


----------



## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Laura - Odette is right you really, really shouldn't blame yourself hon  I feel sad that you feel sad 

Steph xx


----------



## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Oh no, we don't need more sad on this thread. I'll shut up now!


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## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

Laura

This infection isn't fair I know but why are you  punishing yourself.

I mean can you see that this won't help you move forward - have you spoken to someone about your thoughts on this?  Like a counsellor or your man?

This is very sad that you are still blaming yourself - I know it's probably the only thing you can think of why you can't get pregnant but you didn't want the infection.

odettex


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Here is the updated list (lots of changes on it!) please let me know if any updates or if I have got anything wrong - thanks! 



  *TEAM PR*   *PR Ladies awaiting next treatment:* *AbbyCarter*
just had follow-up after 3rd IVF - planning 4th IVF? - due to start ??/??/08*Bankie*
2nd IVF at Lister - consultation 27/03/08 - hoping to cycle in May/June '08*CathB*
just had follow up - decision re 4th IVF maybe on Short Protocol, or possibly donor eggs?*Inconceivable*
Undecided - consulting with LFC/Lister re next treatment*Latestarter*
Currently undergoing cycle monitoring at ARGC before 1st ICSI*Nikki2008*
4th cycle due to start May 2008*Odette*

4th IVF - Barcelona IVI - this time with DE - July '08  *Sammie*
1st IVF tested negative 20/02/08 - next appointment 29/04/08*TracyM*
2nd DIVF - due to start 23/04/08*PR Ladies currently undergoing treatment:* *
Beachgirl*
3rd IVF - currently stimming - EC 12/04/08*Francie*
3rd IVF - currently stimming - EC ??/04/08*Gabrielle*
3rd ICSI - Jinemed - currently stimming - EC ??/04/08*Laurab*
Jinemed - flying out 23/04/08 for 4th cycle, this time will be first with ICSI - currently on OCP to regulate cycle*Silverglitter*
2nd ICSI - LP - due to start downregging 13/04/08*
Sonia*
3rd IVF - LP - currently stimming - EC ??/04/08*Swinny*
4th ICSI due to start mid-April 2008 - currently on Cyclo-Progynova to regulate FSH*Team PR members currently on 2 week wait  :* *Alegria*
1st IVF - Lister - LP - testing 18/04/08    *Babyspoons/Spoony*
1st ICSI - testing 17/04/08    *Cath J*
3rd IVF (2nd ICSI) - Care Northampton - 2 eggs - testing 25/04/08    *Jnr*
1st IVF - UCH London - 1 blastocyst transferred - testing ??/04/08    *Juicy*
2nd IVF - Lister - 5 eggs - one fighter embie transferred - testing 22/03/08    *LittleJenny*
Here on behalf of her sister, who is currently on 1st IVF - 5 eggs - testing 18/04/08    *Sheldon*
1st ICSI - Jinemed - testing ??/04/08    *Team PR members currently recovering from a negative cycle or miscarriage: * *AlexG*

1st IVF - 1 egg collected - abnormal fertilisation 11/03/08  *ElenaSch*

3rd ICSI - Slovakia - March '08 - tested negative 14/03/08  *ClaireP*

3rd ICSI - ARGC - Feb '08 - tested negative - review April '08  *
Jan27 (Cheryl)*

2nd ICSI at Lister - Feb '08 - cancelled due to no response - maybe Jinemed next?  *Lincs Jax*
5th IVF, with IVIG - Care Nottingham - 4 eggs but no fertilisation  converted to FET with one fighter frostie - tested positive April '08 but levels fallen - waiting to m/c *Merse1*

FET - 13/03/08 - - tested negative  *
Ophelia*
7th ICSI - Jinemed - tested negative 10/04/08  *PaulB & his DW Jennig*2nd ICSI - Lister - four eggs - no fertilisation  *SJC*4th cycle - SP - Lister - tested negative  *Stephjoy*4th ICSI - Jinemed - cancelled due to no response  - maybe Natural IVF at Jinemed next?*Terry*5th ICSI - SP - 2 eggs - 1 fertilised - tested negative  
*PR Ladies undergoing Adoption process:* *Linziloo*Good Luck    *PR Ladies with bumps*   *Bugle*
 on 2nd ICSI - Jinemed - 1st scan ??/??/08 - due ??/??/08 *Emmachoc*
 after FET - due 07/10/08*Loui5e*
 on 3rd ICSI - Jinemed - 1st scan 23/04/08 - due ??/??/08*Miranda7*
 on 3rd ICSI - Jinemed - due 29/06/08*Nicky W*
 surprise natural BFP while d/regging for 4th IVF - due 10/05/08*Sunshine*
 on 3rd ICSI - awaiting first scan 15/03/08 - due 31/10/08 *PR Ladies with babies*   *EBW*  Kate - born January 14th after 4th ICSI*Pin*  Olivia Jane - born November 30th 2007 after 1st IVF*Roozie*  Emma,  Lucy and  Jake born January 29th 2008 
(triplets 32+6, all healthy  ) after 1st GIFT at UCH


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## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

Laura

I have PM you.

odettexx


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

In case anyone is wondering - there was an Izzy1971 on the list as undergoing treatment for 2nd IVF in March - happily it seems she managed to get 12 eggs (so I have taken her off the list - sure she won't mind!), followed by a  - Izzy if you are still reading the PR thread then belated Congratulations - wishing you a very happy and healthy  pregnancy - hope you are soon recovered from the OHSS 

Steph xx


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## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

Stephjoy

Thinking of you - good luck with the natural cycle.
Is it a low stimms protocol you are doing.

There has been a recent report from The Guardian of low stimm protocols which have discovered some interesting results - very positive.  I will post it for you.


Milder IVF more likely to work, say researchers· New form of treatment less risky for women
· Resulting embryos have fewer genetic problems
James Randerson, science correspondent The Guardian, Thursday April 10 2008 Article historyAbout this articleClose This article appeared in the Guardian on Thursday April 10 2008 on p10 of the UK news section. It was last updated at 00:04 on April 10 2008. A milder form of fertility treatment that is safer for women also results in higher quality embryos that are more likely to develop successfully inside the mother, according to researchers who compared the method with conventional methods. They say the technique, which is cheaper because it uses lower doses of hormone-mimicking drugs, should be used more widely by fertility clinics.

In conventional IVF doctors begin by massively stimulating the woman's ovaries to produce 10 or more eggs. When these are mixed with sperm this gives the doctors plenty of choice about which embryos to implant back into the womb. But the new study suggests that many of these embryos will be genetically defective and so will not develop. Even under natural conditions around 30% of early embryos do not progress to the foetus stage because of genetic abnormalities.

"It has always been thought that the more eggs the better. We like to have a nice assortment of embryos to choose from," said Dr Esther Baart, an embryologist at the University Medical Centre in Utrecht who carried out the study. But her research suggests that the number of normal eggs is about the same as those delivered by the gentle technique even though the total drops from around 12 to around eight. 

She and her colleagues recruited 111 IVF patients and separated them randomly into a group that would receive conventional IVF and a group that would receive the milder alternative. The normal procedure involves giving a slow acting drug that stops the woman's menstrual cycle. "It gives side effects like menopause," she said. After two weeks doctors inject high doses of a hormone that stimulates the development of eggs within the ovaries, then another hormone-mimicking drug which stimulates their release. 

Rather than taking over the hormonal cycle completely, in mild IVF the doctors give a different drug which stops the menstrual cycle immediately. This eliminates the two weeks of side effects and means that lower doses of the stimulating hormone need to be injected because the body's own version has been acting as part of the woman's natural cycle.

The main advantage of the technique is that it greatly reduces the risk of a potentially fatal condition called ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome. This affects 1% to 2% of women undergoing IVF and can be extremely serious. It results in around one death a year in the UK. Doctors and patients frequently believe this risk is worth taking for a better chance of IVF succeeding.

But Baart's research suggests that it does not actually offer a better chance. She subjected embryos produced by women in the two groups to genetic analysis at the eight cell stage and found that 73% of the embryos produced by conventional IVF had genetic abnormalities, compared with 55% following mild IVF. Most of these abnormalities were due to genetic problems while the cells in the embryo were dividing. She will present her results at the World Congress on Mild Approaches in Assisted Reproduction in London today.

Ken Dowell, medical director of the fertility clinic Care Fertility in Nottingham said the findings were "very exciting". "We have always felt that more isn't better in terms of egg numbers," he said, "This is the first time there has been any science behind that feeling." He said more work would be needed to optimise the mild IVF protocol though.
Printable version Send to a friend Share Clip Contact us  larger | smaller ShareClose Digg reddit Google Bookmarks Yahoo! My Web del.icio.us StumbleUpon Newsvine livejournal ******** BlinkList EmailClose Recipient's email address  Your name  Add a note (optional) 
  
  
odettexx


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi Odette,

thanks for the link - I had already read it and was discussing it with Gabs in a PM earlier - it sounds like the Micro-Dose Lupron protocol - which is another offered by the Jinemed (though I might be wrong!). the Prof at the Jinemed did discuss it with us briefly but I would have had to wait the usual 3 months to do it - and once he mentioned being able to try again next month or month after with Natural IVF we moved away from discussing it. I am not sure how suitable MDL protocol is for poor responders - it would be interesting to know as it definitely sounds better for the eggs than being blasted with stim drugs. He did say to me if I wanted to try MDL protocol he felt I would run the same risk of going out there for 3 weeks and then having to cancel after a week of stims as if I did another conventional SP 

There was also an article about Mild IVF in the Mail yesterday: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/womenfamily.html?in_article_id=558278&in_page_id=1799

The Natural IVF I will be doing involves 3 x scans in London, then fly out to Istanbul day 9/10, then 3-4 days of a small dose of Gonal-F, then trigger and EC/ET as usual, except it will obviously be one egg (or maybe two if I am very very lucky!). Inc informs that this is called Controlled Natural Cycle IVF.

Just took a look at Drownedgirl's babies - soooo gorgeous and a lovely DE story 

Steph xx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Morning all

Just about to go and get ready for journey to the clinic, got to go a different way as they'vve closed our usual road for 2 weeks whilst they repair the damage from the freak floods last year.  WIll let you know how I get on.


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh Laura, it's not your fault hun, you should not blame yourself!  It's part of the grieving process and I think the horror of losing our tubes can stay with us for a long time.  I blamed my stupid immunes for my ep, because the tube worked once.  Then someone said to me that sometimes the embie doesn't want to go to the womb because it knows there is a problem there, it' none of our faults we didn't ask for all this s***, how were you to know!

I have read about this milder stims thing.  Thanks to Miranda mentioning Reprofit, I have been looking into this.  They also seem to offer minimum stims.  I really think that the massive dose of drugs I was on this time has done me no favours, far better to get a couple of good uns as opposed to loads.  They look like a really good clinic and there seem to have been loads of BFP's from there, plus the prices are really good.

Drownedgirl's twins are beautiful, I would certainly not have a problem going down the DE route.

Beach good luck today  

Steph, thanks for the info, I have spoken to a couple of people over here who would be able to prescribe me the IVIG if we were to go abroad, so that has taken a weight off my mind.  That's the good thing about doing a natural cycle, you can try each month if you really wanted to and the quality is going to be much much better.

I am not sure if I have miscarried or not, had all the cramps and spotting last week when levels were alright and then cramps stopped had bleeding for a couple of days and seems to have eased off, I seem to remember a miscarriage being quite physically painful.  At least I am not crying as much and I am feeling quite upbeat about starting again.  Just don't know where yet.  Am gathering as much info as possible, I have a review with my clinic in just over a weeks time (I know he is going to say it's an egg quality prob), have another consult booked at a top London clinic soon as well.

I don't know if anyone else comes across this, but as soon as some people know I have had another loss, they go on about adoption.  I know this is a wonderful thing to do, but if I am not prepared to write myself off just yet then why do other people?  I had a bit of a pop at a friend who said this yesterday and I just said "They don't hand them out like sweets you know!".

Anyway I shall shut up now!

Jxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Ask them if that's what they would have done in your shoes, Jax - I find if you put them right on the spot and get them to really think about it, well no, they probably wouldn't. You already gave a great response though!

In so many ways I think adoption has to be harder than tx, but people don't get that - they see us as Daddy Warbucks types, who can just go pluck that red-haired kid from her misery and plonk her straight into our lives.

Stupid b*stards.

Were you on DHEA for egg quality? And L-arginine?

The best of luck this morning Beachie - may everything be hunky dory.  

I really like the idea of low stimms, as long as it's managed properly. I think for PRs it can't be much worse than full whack much of the time - after all, if you're getting 2-4 eggs on 450iu the two you get on low stimms should really be of better quality?

Odette, did you ever try that? How long is it till you start your cycle by the way?

xxxxxxxxxxx


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

Yes Miranda, people are so b***** thick sometimes, I had a friend who got pg on her fifth IVF, then tried to adopt, but because it was so hard, they decided it was easier to go through IVF again, 2 more IVF's and she is pg again and this was the easier route!

Where can you get this DHEA from?  I have only ever taken wheat grass to bring FSH down.  So is it supposed to be good for eggs then?  Sorry it's the one thing I have not researched, have looked at everything else, it's a full time job all this IVF lark!

I am a woman on a mission, who's mission is to prove some of the idiot people in my life wrong!

xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

You get it from America - it's dead cheap tho!

I'll send you the research and stuff when I get home - I'm at work at the moment. But it really helped my egg quality. They had been 'fragile' before, but they were good and mature this time, after four months of DHEA.

You can take up to 75mg a day, but I only took 50. I did an experiment where I took the 75mg for a wek then had my doc measure my testosterone. While it wasn't high after that week I still felt at 34 I didn't need the full dose. The optimum time to take it is four months, although you can benefit from less time.

Doubtless people will be along with warnings, but it's only bodybuilders who take DHEA in enough quantity to do harm. It IS a steroid hormone, but one found naturally in the body, so as long as you stick to a low dose and keep an eye on whether it's affecting you, you should be fine. Most of us PRs are on it/have taken it. It's just sold as a supplement in the US.

xxxx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi girls!
Sorry been awol for a bit as all my de-cluttering set off my hernia again and I couldn't sit at the puter and type!  
when I look at natural IVF I think about my situation and all the treatment we had - think my eggs were borderline hence all the petri dish stuff and drugs did them no favours - much better to have one good egg than more poor quality.
Mrs O - haven't had the chance to say properly I'm sorry it didn't work hun    You take care.
Odette - I was wondering about the desp housewives woman - the article I  read didn't mention it but I had a sneaky feeling. good luck to you - not long now  
LB - glad Tim sorted his passport although the plonker could have saved £90    -MEN they never look properly do they?  
Steph - new plan sounds good and not long either  
Gabs - hope for better news today   
Beach -  for a good harvest - will be checking in later.
Merse - how are you doing sweetie?   ARe you feeling any better yet? Thinking of you.
Spoony - did you test  
Mirra - fab bump pic and you look so happy!!!   
Minxy - great crop of eggs hun - hope you get some good blasts - seems like a fantasy word 'blast' on here but I spose I must have had one at some stage. anyway we'd love to hear how you get on   
Inc - hope you are having a good holiday  
Lincx - think its agestop.net or biovea.net  
Swins - what you up to this weekend? Is blood test next week then?  
Ems - how long you got left here? Hope all well  
Well love to all I've missed   Off for a bath now
Nicks


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Morning.

Apologises for my moody behaviour last night.  Sorry!    Yes I have had lots of counselling, but the facts are I should have protected myself against infection, even with long term partners you should which i never really thought about.  So is my own silly fault, BUT i do know there is nothing I can do now... so subject closed!  

Beach and Gabs - Good Luck today!!!!

Odette - I could so do donor, as babies i could as easy as pie its when they are older I worry they would hate me, I would love to not tell anyone but Iknow thats not fair.  I'd just likeit to be easy... which inany situation parenthood probably isn't.

Linx - I get the same I always get 'if you stop thinking about it it will happen' or 'if you didn't worry about it all you'd get a better outcome' .... idiots.

I saw a job in an adoption team this week.... maybe I'll go for that and then Ican give away the cute ones on here!!!

Tim called the people last night and sorted the passport, it hadn't been cancelled so all sorted out now!


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## cath J. (Nov 1, 2007)

Hi All

Jax  - people say the most stupid things don't they. My sister ended up adopting 2 sisters after 5 failed txs and it has turned out really well, but was a very harrowing experience to go through from start to finish and like you say, not a decision you can make lightly. Unbelievably people still managed to say inappropriate things when she was going through adoption, such as, "you'll probably get pg once you get the girls and you have switched off from it all" - hence suggesting that it is her fault she didn't get pg due to stress and also inferring that her own baby would mean more to her than these 2 little girls that have become her family. It makes my blood boil!! 
Laura - I hope that you are feeling a little better today - I blame myself for my IF most of the time because I'm convinced that I was too wild in my teens and twenties, but where does it get us? We just add to the constant pain and anguish that is already there. I hope that you get some comfort from knowing that we all understand your pain and send you heaps and heaps of pos. vibes for your next cycle  
Gab  - I so hope that your scan has been more positive today, thinking of you hun  
Beach - Good luck with EC today. Thinking of you too   
Steph - I think that you should run courses in PMA. You are so strong and brave and such a rock for everyone on here. You've got your nat. cycle to look forward to - please God let that be the one   
Spoony /Alegria - Hope that you are both still sane 
Miranda - I love your new pic of your growing bump. I hope that is me one day 

I'm fine myself. Apart from when i walk my dogs I keep getting a stitch in my side and feel light headed and sweaty. I am walking really slowly and gently but it doesn't improve. I am worried that I am doing too much, but light exercise shouldn't be a problem so i don't know. The poor pooches love their walks though and no one else does it properly.

The good thing is I have little to no pains in tummy (unlike last tx) so I am not obsessing all the time about am I or aren't I and can switch off a bit. Even my boobs don't hurt yet and they killed last time. Oddly that makes me happy because for me sore boobs is normally a pre-menstrual thing. My official test date is 16 days from ET and 18 post EC. In my opinion way too late so I have already decided that I will test 15 days post EC and pay for an HCG blood test at the hospital. That's if I get that far, last time I got AF before that. I am getting married on 10th May (180 people coming) and my Great Dane is due to have a pups any minute so I have got lots of distractions which is brilliant. You're prob. wondering why I didn't wait until after the wedding - well I didn't think that time was on my side so I went for it. 
I figure if I am pg I'll be over the moon, but if I'm not, I'll drink lots of champagne and my dress won't be too tight around the waist!!!

Hi to everyone I haven't mentioned.

Love
Cath
X


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Thanks Cath -


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Glad you are more positive today LB   and the passport wasn't cancelled   Will it be free for you to text while out in Turkey just in case I have any news? Maybe I should get Mirra's mobile just in case??  
Cath -  I'd test 14 days post EC if not earlier - I was always told after that but often didn't get there due to AF. Wedding sounds fab!   I've only just arranged to have my dress cleaned after 3.5 years - all these things you get round to on matty leave - spect the grass and choc stains will prob be permanent now!
Off for bath (again) now
NW


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Nicks - As I've already said, Princess is coming next weekend!  You need to be up and dancing for yout birthday! But just incase I'm wrong you best get Mirra's number! Although my moby normaly works abroad I've been told its a bit diff in Turkey so it may not.


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Choc and grass stains??!!  Sounds fun!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Gawd, good idea! I should get the grass stains out of my frock, too. Have you planned any of your wedding yet, Laura?

I'll PM you my mobile number, Nicks - I expect texts! 

Cath - you are barking!  In the nicest possible way of course. I nearly lost the plot arranging my wedding - the very thought of doing tx and having puppies at the same time... oh blimey.
I know what you mean about being the only one who walks them properly! My DH marches ours for half a mile and they look all droopy if they don't get to play.
So I do it - just as well or I'd be a right fattie!
When's your dog due to pop?

Laura - things ALWAYS show up once you've made other arrangements! 
Oh, and - *slaps Laura briskly* - stop blaming yourself! You didn't give _yourself _ an infection presumably some grubby eejit did - and we've all risked the odd grubby eejit or six in our time.

xxxxxxxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Mirra -yeah I know, just wishes I'd bothered with a check up at some point, or been careful with everyone, you just asume once your in a relastionship its ok to use the pill only, obviously not.    As for Wedding.. unfortunately my small pea like brain can only cope with one thing at a time!!  So no wedding plans!  I REALLY want to get married when I'm 6months preg... no idea why I'd just love it... so obviously I can't plan that until I get that BFP!

Anyway... I have more good news!  My mate who i went out with last night who is prob my best mate (even though she lives in brightn and we don't see that much of eachother) she one of those girls who is very chilled, never any pressure with her and she always says the right thing, don't think we've ever had an argument!! Anyway she got made redundant yest and was very upset and she said ' i could do with a holiday' so I told her about turkey and she said she would think about it.  Didn't relaly think that much of it but she texted this am to check dates with me and is currently looking for possible flights!!  She would be the perfect IVF holiday buddy... she's keep me dead chilled out!  So that would be fab!!  When I said last night I mustn't get hopes up as chances are poor that it will work she replied ... well more chance of it working than if you didn't go to Turkey.... which is very true! I didn't ask her before as she always uses her leave on going to Oz with her hubby, so her job loss is my gain (hopefully!)


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh that sounds GREAT! Faberoony to have a good chilled out mate with you.

Well, I'm home! Feel shattered tho - don't like getting up at half five to work - it seems so wrong!

Only two more Saturdays to go though.

I'll send you that research now, Jax.

xxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

That time in the morning really is ridiculous!  Go have a snooze!


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Thanks Mirra   Glad you are home now!
LB - bouncy castle and choc wedding cake was what did it!!!  
Great if you pal goes with you - women are more supportive anyway - don't know what DH is going to be like with this birth malarkey  
NW


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## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Happy weekend everyone.

Jax, glad to hear you're feeling a bit brighter.  The adoption thing...  It makes me so mad.  The number of friends and even family that have send "have you thought about adoption?".  I always want to say "We're desperate to children, have been trying for 5 years, so far have spent 18 grand on treatment and have gone through losing three pregnancies including a ruptured ectopic on a plane that nearly killed me. Of course we xxxxing though about adoption!" Maybe next time I will.  You right, people who never had IF think adoption is a consolation prize you get awarded for IF automatically if you want it.  Grrrrrrrrr!

Laura, Mirra's SO right. We've all had our share of grubby eejits. What interesting, funny, sexy woman hasn't?  (After all grubby eejits have their uses.)  What is happening to us is NOT our fault.  We're victims of the random cruelty of life.  Glad Tim found his passport.  Hope you mate gets a cheap flight.  But even if she doesn't you'll be fine.  Istanbul is great.

Gabs/Lolly, thinking of you today.   

Beach, hope the EC goes well.

Steph, glad to hear your mum's looking after you. Just what you need and deserve. Thanks for that update.  See my name's moved from the awaiting to undergoing treatment list.  Gulp!

Ophelia,   . 

Mirra, hello you!  Go to bed!

Nicki, hello you too!

And to everyone I've missed.

As for me, well bxxxxxy typical.  I try to stay healthy and eat well and the day after I start stims I wake up with a stinking cold!  Talk about bad timing.  Though I suppose after ET (if there is one) would be worse.  Hope my body isn't so busy fighting the virus by ovaries decide to have a rest.  Also I couldn't sleep last night.  I never can when I'm stimming.  I'm not sure if it's the drugs or the stress. I wish someone could invent a drug that puts you to sleep while allowing you to go through the movements of every day life. Then I could take that and be woken up when the whole things over.  

Can I get advice too please. .  It's the "does cyclogest work" question.  After my 1st IVF my AF started just 6 days after ET.  I don't think my body had enough progesterone.  My dr refuses to give me gestone as she says it's not necessary and the injections are too painful.  For my last IVF she gave me a script for oral Uterogestone instead. Has anybody tried that? I thought I read somewhere that oral progesterone was even less effective that pessaries? Can anyone help?  Or should I stick to my guns and insist on gestone?  And has anyone had estrogene support? 

Thanks a million.

LOL xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Francie - I was on Gestone and oestrogen tabs for the first 12 weeks. Yes, the jabs are painful, but I felt more secure having them than not. When I had trouble getting it my clinic said the oral tablets were ok as an alternative - I guess they're cheaper, too!

Nicks - I'm sure your DH will be fine! Will he be cutting the cord, etc? I bet you feel ready to burst now...

Laura - I will mum! Was going to take the doggles out, but it looks so rainy...

xxxxxx


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

Thanks for the DHEA info Miranda and Niks, sold, I had better get ordering some!  I'll do anything, if someone told me to run the the street butt naked, with my knickers on my head I'd do it...reeks of desperation I know, but who cares!

That's an awful early start Miranda, doesn't seem right, oh well not long to go now eh!

Laura, good if you can get your mate out there with you, help to keep you chilled.

Cath, how lovely to have your wedding to look forward too and pups on the way too, ahh!  I have always taken boobs not hurting as a good sign too, hoping this is your time  

Francie, I was given Utrogestan, 2 x 400 a day and it does seem to help, as I was always one to bleed early too, however, even though mine said to be taken orally on the pack, I was told to stick em where the sun don't shine as it is better absorbed like that, I think when it's taken orally it is not absorbed very well, but correct me if I am wrong anyone.

At least I am not alone in the grubby wedding dresses hanging up, mine has been hanging in it's bag also for nealy three years, but it costs a b***** fortune to get it cleaned!

Another question?  Is Menopur supposed to be better than Gonal F for us poor responders in terms of egg quality, I seem to have done better on it before, whereas my cycle where I was on extremely high does of a mix of the two produce all crap quality.

xx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Francie - Me and Tim had a chuckle last night about my belly dancing course!!  I certainly have the belly for it!

Linx - but naked was suggested by Zita i think!  

Nicks - Choc cake and bouncy caslte!!  Where was my invite!!

I'm feeling sick and had a bit of 'dodgy tum' this morning... worrying I have a bug and it wll stop pill fromworking and I'll fget AF early! What shoudl I do Anything I can do??! I'm eating some salty crisps to stop me from being sick... is there  a dr in the house??


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## cath J. (Nov 1, 2007)

Nicki - Mmm grass stains - the mind boggles (oh sorry, of course it was the bouncy castle). Is that a new pic of your bump as well or am I losing the plot? Anyway - looks lovely, I have ALWAYS wanted to be pregnant, it's not just having the actual baby with me, it's the whole thing. Don't worry I am an obsessive tester, so will deffo do an early test/s. I even tested this morning (8 days post HCG jab) just to see what a +ive looks like for real. Sad person that I am I loved it even though I know that it's the Pregnyl still in the system. I will prob test until I get a -ive and then I know that HCG is out of my system. 
Miranda  -I know I'm mad, everyone else thinks so too, but I am alot happier than I was during my last 2WW. Pups are due Thurs but I think they may come before, she is really puffing and panting bless her. This is her 3rd litter so she is a pro. It will also be her last. She comes and wakes me up in the night to take her out to relieve her bladder. I don't mind because I think she is so clever to come and get me.
Laura - I think that it would be lovely for your friend to come to Turkey, it will make it so much better for you 
Jax - I'm glad you said that about the boobs not hurting, I am certain it's a good sign, but we'll see, as ever


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## cath J. (Nov 1, 2007)

Sorry Laura, sent my last message as you were sending yours. Have no idea what you can do to stop yourself being sick, hope someone can help. It shouldn't affect your cycle though surely


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

cath - well if I'm sick/ upset tum the pill won't be ingested.  Maybe I will have to re-eat my sick!  Sorry thats gross!  Yeah wow a preg test with a positive on it.. I had a dream about that last week. Lets hope thata good sign.  Maybe I will buy one and draw the cross on it just to 'play with' !!


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## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Jax, thanks for the info on the Utrogestan.  Mine are 100mg capsules.  They're pretty small - not sure if they'd work as a pessary. Guess I'll have to go back to the dr and ask whether I'm supposed to swallow or stick them.  

xx


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## cath J. (Nov 1, 2007)

Oh sorry Laura, I didn't know you were on the pill and how it all fits in. I've never done the short prot. before.   I see your point now, you really don't want to be sick. Hope someone has some sound advice soon.
X


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

Laura, drink loads of ginger tea, or get some hot water and loads of fresh ginger, it really works.  I had severe puking on my travels once and the tea stopped it dead in its tracks.  I swear by it.

Francie, mine were really small too, had to insert four at a time of the blighters!    Check with your doc, but when mine said taken orally on the pack, I triple checked and they said no way that I swallow em!

xx


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## cath J. (Nov 1, 2007)

Francie - just to echo Jax. I'm on Ultrogeston and although it says eat them on the pack they are definitely meant to be vaginal. I'm on 200mg twice daily, perhaps you're supposed to insert 2 each time

C
X


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Hello my dear friends, we've had EC and got 5 eggs, one of them is probably too immature but should be getting a call this afternoon to tell us more.  Good news is that it wasn't a polyp, just thickened endometrium so I'm very happy about that.  Love you all  x x x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! Whoo! Well done Beachie, well bloody DONE girlie!

Five eggs and a thick womb too -yaroo!

What's your usual fert rate?

You're a weird lot you know, shoving tablets up your fannies!  

Laura - dry toast and ginger biccies for you! Flat lemonade is meant to be good, though to buy some and get it to go flat... bit of time involved there.

Cath - do you find after four weeks your dog loses interest in the pups? My two both did - the jack russell started snapping at hers to get off the boob and the staffie would just get up with them all hanging off her and bounce out of the whelping box to go for food for herself! That was hard - those pups were whimpering all night and I had to go down and feed them as she couldn't be bothered.

Jax - it's not too desperate a measure - we've really found that stuff to work. Oh, and my DH swears by tomato soup for sperm quality - a bowl a day! Google it - tomato soup fertility - it really is the truth...
I'm now on permanent lates, but every other saturday I have to do an early. Nearly killed me before I was preg, let alone now!

Right - small window of sunshine - better take the dogs out now.

xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Further update- all 5 have been ICSI's, one still looks weaker so now awaiting fertilisation overnight


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Brill! The fifth can't have been too bad if they tried to inject it - well done!

xxxxxxx


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## *Lollipop* (Feb 1, 2007)

cycle cancelled.... ....going back to clinic for a chat before we go home next week will let you know how we get on...x

Way to go Beach CLEVER GIRL...... ...hope its 100% sweetie....tonight...take extra special care.....     ....xxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Gab, I've PMed you... I'm so sorry to hear you've been cancelled. I do think it's weird that both of you had no response - it's just too bloody awful for words.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

Hi all

I've just read about 5 pages of posts so sorry if I get people mixed up now....

Laura - YOU DID NOT ASK FOR THIS HUN! I agree with the grubby little eejit comment. You MUST not blame yourself for a blip in nature and you'll never know for sure anyway so....I like Odette's theory.

The wedding dress posse - I dry clesner mine finally after 2.5 years a few months ago when we moved, grass stains came out a treat, but the cost will remain a stain!!   £90 I think!


Francie - I am on oral and backdooral prgesterone. The oral is actually HRT according to the leaflet!

Beachie- WOOO HOO!! Fab news!     

Lollipop     so sorry.x

Mirranda - how can you say you'd be a fattie if you didn't walk the dog! I've seen your pic, you're all baby!!!

Nix, No I haven't tested yet and haven't got any test kits so won't tomorrow either.   Based on what Alegria was told (14 days from EC not ET) that's Tuesday so I might see if I can last till then......doubt it tho!  

Little bit of cramping today but no real symptoms today, temp down a bit this morning so will feel a bit better if that goes up again tomorrow. Just taking it easy (well I am now after cleaning the house - no vaccuuming honest! Just cleaned bathroom and en suite then oiled a side board, all gentle things!    

My accupuncturist rang me this morning and said all sounds normal. I said I was not getting up so often in the night to pee and she said that was good as I am still drinking loads so it means my body is utilising the fluid not just peeing it out. Still doing lots of reiki. Any of you who are mid TX, I really recommend getting yourself attuned so you can do reiki on yourself. I have level 2 as I do Holistic Therapies on the side (very occassionally as no time!) but I have found the reiki has really helped me. Worth a looksee? But I wouldn't recommend anyone doing the attunement mid TX but deffo have a session from a reiki therapist.

Well it's almost another day over 5 sleeps to go to test day (if I'm good Natasha!)

Love to all and sorry to all those I've missed.

Spoony x


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

Well done Beach, that's great news! 

So sorry Lolli that your cycle has been cancelled, it's just so horrendous, I am sorry.  

Miranda - Early starts are bad at the best of times.  I won't grow a beard on this DHEA will I?  Weird about the soup, is it because tomatoes are good for antioxidants?  Good for swimmers.  DH has got to do a sperm DNA fragmantation test, a very expensive **** I say, (sorry, am I allowed to say that?).

xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I had a beard before jax, so I don't know!  

Well, a few harder hairs under my chin, anyway... 

Cheers Spoons! Hopefully I'll spring back into shape afterwards, though I was never bothered about weight gain - the last thing I was worried about really!

Cor - £90 - I might have to think again about cleaning my frock.  

xxxx


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Beachy,

wel done hon    - 5 eggs is fab! Sending lots of    that they all get it on with your DH's  overnight in the love-lab, even the weaker one 

Take it easy this eve sweetie 

Love Steph xx


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Lolli/Gab,

am so, so sorry hon,  I was  that it would be a different story for you and DH. Sending you both huge  from me and Paul, give little'un a  from me too 

Sorry to hear you didn't get your chat with the Prof today - when do you have to go back? At least you'll have a little time for it to sink in and to work out what questions you want to ask 

Am here for you if you need me sweetheart, as is everybody on the thread - take care 

Lots of love

Steph xxx


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## cath J. (Nov 1, 2007)

Hi

Miranda - yes she does lose interest at about 4 weeks which is quite normal. The getting up while they're still lacthed on always happens as well, poor little things. By then though they are on solids so she naturally starts to wean them. You poor thing working nights, I couldn't do that, hat off to you.
Beach - WOW - 5 eggs and no polyp, and ALL icsi'd. Of my 4 eggs 2 were too immature to ICSI so your 5th must have been better than my immature ones. Come on spermies, snuggle up really close to those eggies and fertilise them!!!   
Gab - I could   for you. So sorry, we were all routing for you. Words fail me  

Love
Cath
X


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## alegria (Dec 10, 2007)

Hi team PR,

Beachy - That's wonderful news, really pleased for you   Will   for 100% fertilization at the, as Steph says, 'love-lab'  

Mir - Just a few harder hairs under the chin?? I have a full moustache that dh sometimes get to see if I don't wax it often enough  

Lolly - Really sorry to hear about your cancelled cycle, what a bummer    Hope you can have a new plan of action very soon  

Laura - ok, not a midget, maybe just horizontally challenged?   Seriously, please don't blame yourself, like you, I always though I'd been extremely sensible and carefull too but also had a grubby little eejit in my past (who hasn't?) that at the time left me with a remind of him for longer than I needed/wanted... We cannot change the past but we can do a damm good job in creating a new future and that's exactly what you're doing right now... Enjoy Istanbul and lots of    for your tx.

Babyspoons - Hang on in there, not long now    

Francie - Hope you get better asap and good luck with stimms   

Steph -    

Cath - I love weddings! But it's amazing how you can spend hours, days, even weeks deciding or worrying about little details and on the day it all goes so quickly... we got married last July on a lovely sunny day in a small village in West Sussex, such a happy day, you and your dp will treasure it forever  

Nicks - I could never have my dh in the same room with me during labour... he's got the 'man in the white coat' syndrome and would pass out before it even started   He couldn't even bear watching when I was stabbing myself during stimms.... But to be fair to him, I was really surprised that he came with me during et and actually managed to behave himself properly during the whole thing  

A big   to everyone else I haven't mentioned and enjoy the weekend ladies!

Alegria x


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Gab - Gone I'm so sorry.  God what is happening   

Beach - I told you didn't I!  That lump was just an extra comfy sofa for the kids to plonk themselves on... good on the clinic for being so thorough though.  

Gab/ Steph - What drugs were you on?  I'm worrying now... maybe I should ask for whatever you ddn't have (sorry if that sounds completely selfish! )

Still feeling sick,eating onion rings crisps in bed and awaiting tim to return with my coke (as in cola!!).  Seems to go away after I eat?  Strange.


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Gab-   I'm so so sorry to hear your news, wish I could take the pain away x x x x


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## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Gab, I'm really, really sorry to hear that. Sending you lots of   .

Beach, really pleased for you.   all goes well in the lab tonight.

Thanks for the feedback on the Utrogestan.  Like Mirra says, seems weird to put a tablet there but I'll do it! 

Laura, if you're a voluptuous lady you're perfect for belly dancing.  My DH went to see a show in Cairo.  They start off with the skinny dancers who everyone practically ignores then the dancers get bigger one by one, finished with the best endowed belly wise whom the crowd go wild over and throw loads of money at.  Hope you're feeling better.

Hope everyone is enjoying Saturday night,

xxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Well I will go down a storm in cairo then!!


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2008)

Gab -   so sorry to hear your news.  I hope the follow up brings some positive news.  I really wish it had been a different outcome   

Beach - Congrats on your 5 eggs.  I still have everything crossed for you that they fertilise.  Great news that it wasn't polyp.   

Nicks - I'm going back next Friday - am looking forward to getting back to my own bed.  Sorry to hear that your hernia flared up again  

Laura - if you're still feeling sick I found that full fat coke works wonders - flat or fizzy.

Still got a stinking cold, sinuses are so sore and my glands ache- only got a couple of hours sleep last night - feel v rough.  Have rubbed baby vicks all over me but still don't feel any better  

Hello to everyone else - soz for lack of personals, I just feel utterly awful and just wanted to pop on to see how Beachy did.

xxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Emma sorry your feeling rough.  You still over here?  It'll be our crap weather!


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2008)

yeah still here.  I haven't had a cold for years and this one is a biggie - it's grim.  Off to bed soon. xx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Poor thing, bet you can't really take anything either in your 'condition'!  Go snuggle up and get well soon!!

Tim is brnging me home some coke soon I hope!


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2008)

Ahhhh, the lovely coke - it's like a drug - it'l sort you out  

Right, am going to sign off before I drown in my own snot


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Emma- hope that you're feeling better soon, it;'s this awful weather in the UK, can't believe how cold it is for April


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Beach - Yest it was lovely and sunny and then I went on a visit at about 2 and it was halstoning!!  Mad weather.  How you feeling?


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

Help - I'm spotting.     Just taken extra cyclogest and extra duphaston. Can I do anything else? Please God no!!!!!!!   

I'm so scared now.


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## cath J. (Nov 1, 2007)

Spoony

I don't know what to say because I'm not sure there is anything else you can do for now. Try reading the 2WW diaries though because I have read tonnes of BFP stories with brown blood, red blood, spotting, heavy bleeding etc etc. That's the cruel thing - the symptons can mean either. 

Hang on in there, if I could take this angusih away from you I would  

Lots of   coming your way.

X


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Spoons -Do not panic!!!  Spotting can just be implantation or just spotting for spotting's sake, loads of girls have it so don't worry too much (silly thing to say I know!!)


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

Even 10 Dpt? I'll look on 2ww diaries.

Am trembling. x


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Even if its not implantation loads of people spot in early preg, spotting is not the end.... good plan to look at 2ww diaries should reassure you.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Try not to worry too much, Spoonie - I know that's easier said than done. Some ladies spot and bleed all the way through.

xxxxxxxxx


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Spoony,

like the others say, it could be early pregnancy spotting, or it could be implantation (like you said about the Trophoblast cells before - this can go on for a while) - I know how hard it is but try not to worry, there is no way of knowing which it is until you test I'm afraid 

Sending you loads of  and    -  that it is your embie/s snuggling in for the long haul 

Steph xxx


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## Rachel (Mar 10, 2004)

Hi babyspoons

Just wanted to send you a huge hug   It's such a rollercoaster we go on when we undertake any fertility treatment   I had spotting on days 8 and 11 on my successful cycle and now have the girls.

Bucket loads of positive vibes coming your way     

Love, Rachel xxx


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

Thanks girls. I think I'm going to go to bed. I'm just so scared. I can't face the alternative. 

Please God   be implantation or those Trophoblasts bedding in.

I wish there was a poll for 'Did you bleed in 2ww and get a BFP?" Is there one? I can't find any polls in my desperation! Sorry for being a drama queen.

Spoony x

PS thanks for the postive vibes Rachel x


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Lolli and Ophelia (and anyone else who is on ********)

I have put some photos up of us in Istanbul - take a look 

Steph xxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Spoons- really hope that it's implantation bleeding for you  

Steph- photos are fab

Laura- ddi you get your coke?


----------



## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Spoons - See listen to Rachel!

Steph - I'll go check them out.

Beach - NO!    He is not home yet.


----------



## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Lovely pics steph.


----------



## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Thanks! 

I took 67  but only put 18 up - the ones with my ******** friends on mostly


----------



## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Looks like you all had a nice time despite doing the IVF!!  How you feeling now?


----------



## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Laura- where's he gone?


----------



## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Not feeling too bad - feeling sad/heart-wrenched when I am seeing babies/toddlers again - which I was fine with before I went away. 

Apart from that I feel surprisingly bright - I think we needed a holiday soooo badly after not having one for 4 and a half years, that it did us a world of good - I feel so much better for it, in spite of the disappointment of the treatment being cancelled. I also think that in spite of eating so much lovely food out every night, I even lost a little weight with all the steep hill-walking we did - which doesn't normally happen during tx! maybe cos I didn't get as far as the cyclogest!

Going to try to keep the PMA up and look forwards only,    to the next treatment, which we won't be able to decide until I get the 

Not long now hon!   

Steph xxx


----------



## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

I'm getting really scared they are using a dodgy batch out there and I'm gonna be out there all alone with a cancelled cycle.  

You do sound really good at the moment, I'm impressed, prob helps jumping straight back in.


----------



## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Gabs - so sorry hun   
Beachy - great news!    
spoony - hang in there   
Lincs - you'll be fine hun - no side effects for me
sounds like I'm not the only one to leave the wedding dress festering for a bit   its £89 to clean and £50 for presentation box - but hey ho my Dad bought it and he's not here any more so maybe my little girl will wear it one day  
NW


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Agh Nicks thats lovely.    But £50 for abox!


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

Fear got the better of me (and the fact I live 5 mins from 24hr Asda), just bought some HPT.....guess there's no point testing tonight tho is there?   

PS bought my box off ebay for about £17....


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

No test in the morn spoons.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I still haven't worked out whether you and Lolly were on the same drugs Steph? But then, you were both on a mixture, so it seems to be a horrible coincidence.

Don't worry Laura - I'm sure it's not dodgy drugs if they were on two or three different things.  

It's just so awful though.

Loving the piccies Steph! Now we know what you look like Mrs O!

Would be lovely for your wee un to wear your frock Nicks! Somehow I think I'd be worried if Bob wanted to use mine. And his dad will be wearing the Robertson kilt if and when he gets married - he'll have to buy another! So yeah, he'll still be wearing a skirt I guess.

Spoons - have you gone to bed? No, there you are! You've got a whole batch, so you could have a little tes - as long as you know it'll be more accurate in the morning etc etc, yadda  
It would be so lovely to have another  - but it's still pretty early!

I'm off for my bath - your turn for the tap end Laura!


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

I agree, just went on peeonastick.com and they said same. So I'm off to bed.

Thanks for all your support girls. I couldn't have survived this 2ww without you lot!










Night all x


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Night spoony... get it all set up on the loo for the morning!!  

Mirra - Turkey are planning to just give me Gonal-F, no idea why think I will query it.. surely menopur is better for us?  I guess they are the dr's!    I so need a bath, been in bed all day, but think I want to rot in my own filth til tomorrow now...lucky Tim!


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Laura- get a bath in the morning


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Beach - You feeling ok after your EC?


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Laura 

please do not worry about there being a batch of dodgy drugs - you only have to look at Bugle to know that Jinemed's drugs ARE working - and Ophelia got eggs too only days before I started stimming.

I can understand why the speculation re both of us having to cancel in the same month - but like Miranda says - it is a horrible coincidence. We were both on a mixture of drugs - 300 Gonal-f plus 150 Menopur, with Letrazole. This is exactly what Miranda had on her successful cycle last year, but obviously what suits one person may not suit another so well - we are all different.

Gabs and I were just very unlucky.  We already knew before we set out that we are poor responders and would be difficult to stimulate. Particularly in my case as it had been over a year since my last cycle, and I will be 39 this year (and so will Gabs). I knew when I went out there that there is always a risk of it being a bad month, or that Gonal-f maybe wouldn't work so well for me as I had never tried it before - but that is why I went to the Jinemed specifically - because it would mean trying different drugs from those that my last clinic kept insisting on throwing at me in huger doses but with no variation each time.

I don't think the pill did me (individually) any favours, and I do wonder if it might have been different if I hadn't taken it - but it might have been exactly the same too  - them's the breaks. I won't take it next time!

If you really are worried, then talk to the Prof or Munip about your concerns re non-response to the drugs - and see what they say about doing 300 Gonal-f plus 150 Menopur - or 300 Menopur and 150 Gonal-f (like Ophelia had). If you always had Menopur in the past I would think you might best off on that again, maybe with a bit of Gonal-f too (to try something different in the hope of getting more eggs than on Menopur) .... but ask them - they are the experts  You are only 31 and had a response the last two times you tried - there is no reason why you should worry - I'm sure you'll be fine with the Jinemed doctors working with you.

I have no regrets about going to the Jinemed and I still have complete faith in them - otherwise I wouldn't be thinking about going back. I don't regret trying the Gonal-f plus Menopur drug protocol, it just didn't work for me last month. It may work another month, but I don't want to wait 3 months to try again - so will be trying Natural IVF instead (hopefully!).

I hope that all made sense and helps! Stay  ! 

Steph xxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Laura- in quite a bit of pain escpecially when I move, it's like a sharp knife.  Is Tim back now?

Steph


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Beachy - sorry you are in pain  hope you feel a lot better after a good night's sleep 

Steph xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I so hope the natural cycle works out Steph -you're so courageous. For what it's worth, I had exactly the same number of eggs on 300 Gonal plus 150 Menopur as I had on 375 Menopur in this country. BUT, they were all mature this time - I stimmed two days longer and I'd had DHEA and lots of vits and was all relaxed - who knows what worked?
But it's certainly the case that upping the dose doesn't always work.

Give that proto a try Laura, the 300 Gonal and the 150 Menopur, or the opposite - then at least you've had both. I wonder if they do 225 of each?

What proto was Bugle on anyone? Do we know?

Oh, and the proto's not decided till you get there, not really. They say how they think they're going to go, but then when you talk to Dr T he can be very flexible. if you tell him your worries you can come up with a proto together - I did, and it made me feel really empowered.

Beach - poor you, with the pain - but I'm so thrilled at how well you've done! What time are you getting the call tomorrow?

xxxxxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Thanks Steph and Mirra - I'm just being a worry wort!

Beach - Tim home and I have my coke, feling a bit better now...I'll never sleep tonight been snoozing all day!  Hope you feel better in morn... your in pain due to all them eggies they got!!


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi Laura,

glad you are feeling better 

Mira - I just had a quick look back through Bugle's posts and from what I can make out she downregged first on Lucrin, then started stimms of Menagon (like Menopur but the painful IM injection) at 300, which was quickly reduced as she over-responded.

Lolli/Gab - if you are reading this - thinking of you hon 

Steph xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oo, a long protocol Steph! That's very different then.

Well I'm off to bed to read - hope you manage to sleep, L.

Night all.


----------



## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Morning

managed to get an ok nights' sleep , now got to wait for embryologist to call, think I'll be like a cat on hot bricks until then, have started cleaning bathroom and put some washing in to keep me occupied.  Still in quite a bit of pain but it's bearable.  Will let you knoe what happens later on.


----------



## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

Morning all

Beach - you're up as early as me!! I cleaned the bathroom yesterday to stay distracted, aren't us women funny?!

Well spotting no worse, BBT up again   and cervix still up which I am sooooo relived about. Test was neg but I expected that so I'm ok with it (because BBT was up again) Had it not been I don't think I'd have tested.

So as it's brown spotting, I am   it's implantation. I have still upped my cyclogest and duphastem (or however you spell it  ) as the letter the clininc left us with said to do this if you start to bleed so I'm no risking it. Can't do any harm can it?

Anyway, beachie - you missed a spot upper left hand side of the mirror!! Oh and there's still a stray sock left in the laundry bin! Hope the pains eased off.

Spotting Spoony x


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

PS Just found all the polls! DoH!

I must have been grinding my teeth last night as my jaw really aches!


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Babyspoons-  bathroom all done, probably not as good as could have but trying to bend too move as its hurting.  Dreading this mornings phone call.  Hoping we get an early call rather than letting it go on too long.  Have got a mystery shopping assignment this pm too so need to read up about that.


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

Hi you, take it easy now you've done that. My clinic rang us at 8am so hopefully yours will too. Keep me posted.

Mystery shopper? Sounds exciting? What kind of shop? How did you get into that?

I have just watched How to Look Good Naked - how adorable were those twins? Wish Gok did private sessions i.e. no cameras! (I work mainly with men and can just imagine the comments I'd get from my lot!!)

 for your phone call xx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Thanks Babyspoons- my stomach feels like it's full of stones, am so nervous.


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

Keep deep breathing sweetie. Try to visualise a good result and a good phone call. 
I have some good breathing techniques for relaxation if you want them x (other than in and out before someone makes a smart comment   )


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Last time we got the call about 9ish so hoping that it's the same this time.  Just washed my hair as it felt dirty, anything to take mind off things.


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

So now you're clean and so is your bathroom! X


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

Am off to church now but will be   for you Beachie and everyone else on this site. x


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Yippee we got 4 fertilised eggs, got call tomorrow regarding division then if everything is ok we have ET on Tuesday x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Wow Beach! That's absolutely wonderful news! 

Spoons - did you not break open those HPTs then? It's a good day for good news!


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## TwiceBlessed (Nov 8, 2006)

posted on the other thread beachgirl.

Great news! best of luck for Tuesday


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Woo Hoo Beachie!!  4 is fab....bound to be a couple of babies in that crop!!  

Spoons- Glad still just spotting, you gonna test tom?


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Hope so Laura, how are you feeling today?


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## alegria (Dec 10, 2007)

Hi everyone  

Beachy - Wow, well done   

Laura - Hope you're feeling better today  

Spoony - If you've read the 2ww diaries you'll see that lots of women even bleed during it and go on to have a BFP..... I'm 5 days from test day and also spotting brown discharge (sorry - tmi) since yesterday. Stay positive   

Alegria x


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Got sore throat and bit of a temp. Me and Timhad a row last night so he has used that as an excuse to **** off all day today,as he did yest.  Sometimes I just get so lonely.  Got tummy ache too.  Don't feel sick though!

Have loads of jobs to do, must get up and do them rather than festering in bed... like I did yest!

You must be over the moon beach!


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

Yay Beachy!! That's great news!
      

yeah, I broke into them, was BFN but still early so.....according to a web site I found, my due date would be 22nd Dec, so I put this into the BBC web site pregnancy calendar thingy and it said on 13th expect some bleeding and then said test on 15th.....so I'm hoping for maybe a faint line tomorrow.

I'm back in positive mode and trying to see it as a good sign. It sounds normal too Alegria if you're doin the same. Gosh you sound so much calmer than me! How do you do it? I just lost it last night. I seem to have serious highs then massive lows no in between!   I think I was tired too which makes things worse eh?

Hey ho, another day closer to knowing one way or 'tother. 

Spoony x


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Morning girls 
Beach fab news 
Gab am so sorry   
Babyspoons spotting is so common take it as a good sign
Laura sundays are quite lonely days anyway I find, hope you are feeling better hun? 
Mir not long left at work now?
Nicks hope hernias not playing up today?
Steph your so positive and its great you are giving nat IVF a try 
Well I went to town yesterday with my best mate to have lunch an then do some shopping but ended up having a long lunch over a bottle of wine then going to the pub for more wine and not making the shops  DH picked us up a 7pm drunk and very giggly  Did me the world of good though!!!
Love to all xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Hello Merse!!

Lovely to hear from you,glad you had a good day yest, makes such a difference to get out and have fun.

XXX


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

Well done beach      

Glad you had a nice day yesterday Merse. Sometimes it's just what we need isn't it.

Laura, I am all alone too, although wanted my DH to go off and have a good time, as all I have done recently is research and fester about. Have you got friends you can go and see or maybe go for a nice walk?

Has anyone seen this before? http://www.thefertilesoul.com/Diagnosis/

I really wonder if diet is a lot to do with it all and our state of mind etc, the one go where I got the furthest, I did the usual, cut out wheat, sugar, stress and had accupuncture.

I was extremely stressed this go and my stress levels were through the roof!

xx

/links


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi Laura yes its great to get out an have fun! I'm actually enjoying not worrying about my lifestyle drinking wine and cappuccinos not drinking a mountain of water and shoving hundreds of vits down my throat!! Its actually great to have a normal life!! Not that I wouldn't give it all up to have another go but its just great not to worry about it!!
Lynx how are you today?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

No not really got any local mates... closest is an hour drive away, I'm not good company anyway.

Just off to clean the rabbits and then have a bath (as I am very smelly!) and then going to the shops to buy new thigs for Turkey and a present for my dad for doing kitchen... maybe a tomtom?  And then need to go to my sisters tocollect the hamsters... forgot about them completey! ops!

Think the Pill is making me moody hence all these arguments with tim... or maybe its him!!


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Laura hope you feel better soon hun its prob the pill and worrying about cycling again   its all very stressfull xxxx


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## alegria (Dec 10, 2007)

Spoony - Maybe because I didn't expect to get this far I feel very grateful and positive too. In the beginning we thought we would have to abandone the cycle as I wasn't responding.... then went to ec thinking that I would have at least 3 eggs, ended up with only one.... in the afternoon after ec I was already mentally preparing myself for starting all over again.... and was extremelly happy (and surprised) when they've called to say that it had fertilized and they wanted me back for et... so, as my acupuncturist said, I already spent too much energy thinking about the worse before et, I just cannot afford to do it anymore, must keep faith! Sorry if I sound too pragmatic but I feel I've done everything I could have (had the acu, so many vits and supplemts, healthy diet, no booze or coffee) so now it's in the lap of Gods. Of course I'm hoping and praying for a positive result    but unfortunately cannot have my expectations too high... One day at time


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Beach - well done duder!    
LB - yeah I'm off for a shower - bin watching marathon  
Alegs and Spoony - hang in there - these are the worse few days  
Merse - sounds like good night!   Having my first mobile haircut tonight! 
Love to all
NW


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

Merse - sounds like a great night! Good on you!

Laura - we're you're local mates sweetie. x

Linx - that site looks interesting. Did you have accupuncture?

Alegria - good way to look at it. You're very in control. I'm going to try and be more like you from now on!!

By the way, what's the difference between natural IVF and the other? I get confused with all the different protocols.  

Spoony x


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## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Alegria 
Nicks hope haircut goes well  xxxx


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

A bit of retail therapy sounds good Laura.  It's the same for me really I moved from London to the country and all my close friends are a fair drive away.  So know how you feel hun.

Merse - yes it is good to not worry about it all for a bit, does do you the world of good.  Do you think you will be able to take a holiday at all?  I have been very up and down, sometimes feel like myself and others, sat on the stairs crying my eyes out!  Due back at work tomorrow, although doc has signed me off til Thursday and said if I need longer just to ask.  But I don't get paid, so feel like I have to go back.  Not mentally ready, as have to also face fat insensitive pg chav at work.  Although I did receive a huge bouquet of flowers on Friday from work, so they do understand.

Nik, hope you have a nice haircut.

Spoons, only had accu on my 1st and 2nd goes, but am going to do it again I think.  It is a very interesting site I have emailed them, I have read her book as well, she was 42 with an fsh of 42 I think and got pregnant!  Did you have accu?  I think natural is when they work with your own cycle and the egg that you recruit for that month is collected and fertilised, it is cheaper to do.

xx
xx


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

Hi

Yes I had accup for a few weeks before and then twice on the day of e/t. I also do reiki.

I have another thicky question. Now i've had a BFN, can I assume IF I get BFP tomorrow for e.g. then it's real and not chemicals/drugs?

By the way Nik I had my mobile hairdressed cut my mop last week, IVF has ruined by curls! My hair has gone all fizzy so had it cut off so now's it's curly again!

Spoony x


----------



## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Spoons yes if its positive then it won't be the drugs 
Lynx I do lots of crying on the stairs always have done not sure why but we've got two sets so always going up and down!! I work for myself so don't get paid either I've always gone back very quickly after miscarriages and failed TX but I find it helps me, if I stay at home I just cry and get more depressed. Hopefully it will help you to and just ignore the fat chav shes gonna have a fat chav baby 
xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

All my friends moved away from me!  Maybe its cos I smell!

All you ladies having your hair done. I'm such a scruff.  

Well I'm clean now. Gonna get out of the house before I go loopy.

Lynx - Its tough walking into work, but normally once I'm there I am ok.  Passes the time and as Merse says makes you feel low and dwell to much. 

CAtch you lovely ladies later. Gonna buy some new PJs... always cheers me up!XX


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

That must be tiring Merse with two flights of stairs, I used to cry on the stairs as a kid, don't know why I have started doing it again now!  I have to go to the hospital in the morning to check levels have gone back to 0.  Will probably go back tomorrow or Tuesday, am physically drained with it all and could do with a holiday really.

Must check those lottery tickets!

xx


----------



## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Holiday sounds like a good idea Linx.  Its all pretty **** isn't it.


----------



## merse1 (Apr 15, 2007)

Yea I'd love a holiday too but just can't afford it spent so much on TX still trying to pay it off!! We went to Egypt last Nov after we were advised no more TX as I was going to crack up if I didn't get away, it really helped if you could manage it I think it would do you good 
Laura I love new pyjamas 
xxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## bugle (Dec 26, 2007)

Hi everyone - still here...

Steph and Gabs  I was on LP lucrin and 300 menogon followed by 225 and then 150.

Good luck to everyone on 2ww.

I'm Ok but have to say this is worse than the 2ww!! on and off pains and waking up at weird times, and feel like I need a direct line to check my HCG as who knows what its doing!!! Does anyone know when I should have my first scan? Jinemed / Romina wrote back and said one week later - but - one week later than what?? 

Anyway - better go and do some more relaxing as back to work tomorrow


----------



## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Bugle - Hello dear, sorry your feeling poo.  Normally they say at 6 weeks as then should see a heart beat.    Make sure you let us know!!! Could it be another set of triplets on the way!!


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Hello, back from doing mystery shopping asssignment, mum and dad are now here as DH has invited them up to watch the marathon football, two matches back to back!!!!

Will be around on and off all afternoon.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Bugle - this bit is a nightmare! I went to A&E and got more HCG tests. My pal got me to tell them I had been bleeding so I got a scan... but I didn't tell you that, ok?  

try and get one for between six and seven weeks - you should see the three heartbeats then!  

Beach - my DH seems to watch pur rubbish all w/e! Footbakll back to back, with teenage crap like Hollyoakes and this island thingy in between. Good thing I like to read...

Laura - you don't smell! What are the new PJs like? Can't believe you would pick a fight - it must be Tim.  

Jax - there's something about stairs that are really comforting to cry on! I live in a bungalow though.

Spoons -   for tomorrow

Alegs -   to you too!

xxxxxxx

Nicks -   that your mobile do is good. You should have had our Merse! Though she may charge you petrol up to the Midlands...


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Well done *beach*  

Just a suggestion ladies.....I know you girls like to have a good old chat (which is why this thread is so busy) so perhaps you'd like to all meet up in the Chat room and have a gossip (which is what it's there for) and then try to keep this thread to more IVF/support/advice related chat ?

Just a thought which perhaps you could consider 

Take care
Natasha


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Hi everybody

Beach, congrats on getting 4 embies. Goodluck with ET. 

Babyspoons and Algeria,    for testing. 

Jax, I too am an on the stairs cryer and have been since I was tiny. It's that head against the bannisters position.  Perfect fro weeping your heart out.

Merse, pleased to hear you've had a good boozy lunch. The best cure for a multitude of ills. 

Bugle, hang in there.  Your pervious HCG was REALLY high which has got to be a good sign.  

Laura, hope you're feeling better. And I haven't had a hair cut for a year so we're scruffs together. 

Mirra, hope you're having a good Sunday.

I'm still full of cold and mouth ulcers and of course totally paranoid the menapur's not doing anything. Just want to get the whole thing over so I know either way.

LOL xxxx


----------



## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Hi all!

Laurab - as everyone has said, this is not your fault at all; please do not waste time blaming yourself unnecessarily.  You don't deserve it.    Also, I know it's hard with Steph and Gabs having had bad news but try and focus on other recent Jinemed patients Louise and Bugle instead.  I think they show that Jinemed is not using duff drugs!  And new jammies are always good!  

Merse - nice to see you have been out and about having fun recently - you deserve it!

Jax - I would seriously give DHEA a try.  The research results just get stronger and there is a patent application pending for it now.  Definitely worth a go.  As Miranda says, i would advise the under 35s to be careful and the under 30s to be uber-cautious, but beyond that 75mg daily should be fine unless you already have high testosterone levels.  And no - you won't grow a beard!!  With stress - who knows how much stress does to us??  I think we women don't need to be told that stress affects our hormones and our reproductive system doesn't know if we are stressed because a pride of lions is threatening our tribe (not a good time to reproduce) or stressed because we so very much want a baby and are all ready to offer it a fab home (great time to reproduce).  I firmly believe that it can and does make a difference but it is VERY hard to address because all that you are going through is so stressful and relaxing is very difficult, however much you try and however much help you get from various therapies.

Gabrielle - I am so very sorry; I don't know what to say so I'll just send a big big  

Steph - glad to see you remaining positive - you are truly inspiring

Spoony - I know it's nigh-on impossible but try not to analyse your every twinge!!     for Thursday

Alegria - hope all is well with you.     for Friday Kate's test date buddy!

Emma - nurse that cold!

Cath - your test date is my birthday so I am hoping that is a good sign!!    

Beachy - 5 eggs is brilliant!!  With you, Juicy and Kate, 5 is definitely the new 10!!  Well done and keep us posted!

Bugle - Oddly, I can imagine getting a BFP is actually quite stressful because you cannot quite believe it and you will have recently been through a load of IF doctors who seem to specialise in negativity along with IF. It must make it hard to enjoy the BFP moment!  Don't know if any of the pregnant ladies here felt the same but I hope you can believe and enjoy soon.

Odette - wonderful to see your wise words on DE.  I do wish some "celebs" would come out and admit to DE treatment. 

Ophelia -   hope you are ok!

Francie - nurse that cold and those ulcers!

Hi there Miranda and Nicks - hope you and the bumps are well.

Spoke to Kate briefly today but she had to ring off quickly so hope to talk to her more later. She is trying to keep busy!


----------



## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Mir- I prefer reading to tv any day, never put the tv on when I'm home alone.  Got mario kart on the wii and have enjoyed playing that.

Thanks Little Jenny and Francie. x


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

[alert]Members are reminded that FF does not condone self medicating[/alert]

DHEA is a steroid hormone and is not readily available in the UK ie you can not buy it over the counter, nor can it be prescribed.

For this reason, please discuss taking this with your consultant before self administering.

Take care & good luck
Natasha


----------



## sonia7 (Feb 9, 2007)

Hi everyone

Sorry I havent been around lately. Hope you are all well.

I am in the middle of my 3rd IVF Treatment, currently stimming.

Not feeling the best today though - got the run's. Sorry TMI  

My next scan is on the 18th April, so hopefully I will get to see some good results with the follicles.

Hope you are all okay

Sonia xx


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Sonia -    

I know it's hard but try and stay positive - you never can tell when you are going to get the great cycle you need.  Here's hoping you see lots of follies at your scan - let us know how it goes!


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## babyspoons (Feb 25, 2007)

girls, spotting is getting heavier and now getting redder rather than brown.  Can implantation bleeding be red (as in fresh blood colour)? TMI sorry. 

Spoony x


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Hello,

Back, Tim is being a [email protected]  I just been to my sisters after shopping and picked up all our kitchen stuff and the hamsters etc and he just sat tthere while I struggled to bring it all upstairs, half of it is stil in the car.  Prob get broken into tonight.

Didn't really buy much, tried on some bits but looked fat in it all.    Didn't even get any pj's.  Did buy some make up and toiletories for my holiday.  Got my dad a tomtom though.

Can't believe its Sunday night, still count down til holiday now. 7 more days at work.

Natasha -Oh i think the chat room is a great idea... not sure how we do it... do weall decide on a time to toddle over there and then just click in?  Anyone fancy doing it?  Should we set a time when we'll all be around, I guess one evening would be good.

Spoony - Sorry this is happening, try to hang in there.


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

OK - just spoke to Kate!  She is a bit pessimistic about this cycle being successful since she has had some AF type cramping today  

Sorry in advance for tmi but bear in mind that since she came off the pill last year Kate has had uber-light AF (2 days at most needing one tampon/pad a day) and she has certainly NOT had any cramps - in fact I remember her saying she wished that she did because she knew that not having the crampy, longer AFs she used to was a sign that all was not well, reflecting her high FSH etc.

So now she feels that since she is actually getting cramps AF MUST be on her way...

Off to look at 2ww diaries now to find some contradiction.

Luckily Kate is still feeling very positive in the light of her response to stims so that she still has hope even if it's not meant to be this cycle.


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

LittleJenny

Lots & lots of ladies get AF pains & symptoms in 2ww. After all the drugs, especially the HCG before EC and then the progesterone support during 2ww, it's no wonder we feel all sorts of aches, pains & twinges.

Shouldn't compare with natural cycles or other treatment cycles.

Have a look at these polls on Voting board...

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=37504.0

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=49694.0

Also have a read of the posts on 2ww board....all of this should hopefully give your sister back a bit of possitivity as it's definitely not a bad sign.

Take care
Natasha


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Babyspoons   hope you're ok x


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Thanks Natasha - have had a look at the 2ww board and called Kate to tell her to try not to worry.  I am hoping that the fact that she definitely doesn't have cramps as a sign of AF must mean these are a sign of something else....     

Spoony - I'm sure others can answer much better but from what I gather on the 2ww board the key thing is that the implantation bleeding is definitely spotting and not full on AF flow.  I don't see anything to say that its colour is necessarily an indicator.  

Do you think they could use the 2ww as a form of torture?  I would happily give away state secrets to put Kate out of her misery!


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## alegria (Dec 10, 2007)

LittleJenny - As Natasha said, we're bound to feel all sorts of aches & twinges after so many drugs and poking inside down there... I've been still spotting since yesterday and now have a horrible headache (and I very RARELY get one)... I wish we could borrow Dr Who's time machine during our 2ww.... Tell Kate to hang on in there. You too Spoony    

Alegria x


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Quiet tonight.

Good luck tom Spoons.  

Beach - Hope you got lots of lovely embies tom.  

Night night girls.


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi all 

just a quickie - just wanted to say -

*Beachy* - 4 fertilised is brilliant - you said you already knew one of the 5 was a bit weedy so you have had a 100% fertilisation really - such good news    really hope they all continue to grow for being put back on Tuesday, and maybe even some frosties!   

*Sonia *- good luck with the stimming - any idea yet when EC will be? hope you get a great batch of eggs   
*
Spoony, Alegria and LittleJen's Kate* - hang in there PUPO ladies -  that any bleeding is nothing to worry about and that all goes well for you   
*
Laura* - hope you and Tim are now all made up  I'm another one who buys PJs to cheer myself up! 

*Lolli * and *Ophelia* - thinking of you 

 to everybody else!

Lots of love

Steph xxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Morning all

Just wanted to say hello and good morning, at home today, should get the call around 9ish then if it's good news DH iss off to Rugby for work and I'll be having a day at home tidying round


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oo, fingers crossed Beach!

I've had a crappy night's sleep, so I'm up at silly o'clock. been fretting about cash and selling the house!

You been fretting too? Or just doing your early bird thing?
xx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Mir- I've had a disturbed nights sleep, girl cat woke me up at 2.30 to go out, then I got up about 4.30 to try and get her back in.  Tossed and turned to 5.45 then thought I'd get up.  Doesn't matter if I'm tired as can have a nap this pm.  Is your house now on the market?


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Well we've had the for sale sign up for weeks, but I only just approved the details, so it hasn't actually been marketed. I've knocked £10,000 off the price the agent wanted to go for - much more realistic I think.

Hopefully we can get a quick sale before the market completely goes pop, as there's no way we can be here after July, when my salary stops. 

I'm SO bad with money!


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Mir- the problem is that salaries haven't increased enough in order to balance out the house prices and cost of living.  When I look atwhat we pay for mortgage, council tax, water, electric and gas it's over half DH's wage!  I know I work part time and therefore that's my decision but even if I worked full time I wouldn't be able to afford to pay our bills alone.


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

Money worries it's a nightmare, hope you sell your place soon Miranda.  I know it's worrying times, my friend who has the twit husband has 45k debt!  They are now remortgaging up to the hilt to pay it off, I am quite worried about her as he hasn't even got a full time paid job and they have a baby on the way.  She is the bread winner.

Beach   for today.  Is your transfer going to be today or tomorrow?

Spoons hang on in there, I have had red bleeding on most goes, lots of people can, it is more common than we think.  I once didn't test because I had a complete full flow, with clots and all, ended up testing a week later because felt a bit queasy.  Hang on in there  

I have decided not to go back to work today, have to go to the hospital to check my HCG is back to normal.  I am concerned as I have been really hormonol still and belly still feels solid, so I am not sure I have even miscarried yet.    Have decided that when I go back to work which will prob be tomorrow, I am going to speak to one of the directors who I get on really well with and tell her that we have to have IVF (these are the years aren't they?) and can I go part time as of July, know it's a long shot, but I am finding the working full time (my job is quite stressful) really hard.  Do you think that sounds like a good plan?

xx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Lincs Jax   so sorry that you're still going through this.  With regards to work if you can afford to work part time then I would.  Treatment is hard both emotionally and mentally as well as the physical side of it and you need to be as prepared as possible, If you've a pressured job that's even worse. 

If they're dividing ok then we will have ET tomorrow, just got to wait for phone call now


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## Rachel (Mar 10, 2004)

New home this way Team PR.................

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=136990.new#new


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