# Frozen Embryo Transfer next option



## ayrshirelady (Aug 31, 2008)

hello,

Looking for help and advice on frozen embryo transfers.

I have just been through 3rd disappointing cycle. However, this time on the short protocol we did get 12 eggs of which 7 fertilised. After failed implantation I now have 5 frozen embies waiting.

I have never tried a cycle from frozen. We are desperately hoping that this will work as this is our last NHS stage. Was disappointed to hear though that the clinic plan to defrost all five. They are indicating that on average only 70% survive the thaw.

Is it normall for clinics to defrost such a high number. I had thought this would have hopefully given me two attempts.

Also looking for advice on best course of treatment with frozen embies. Clinic seem to be advocating a natural cycle. Rather sceptical on this since our 3 cycles so far have failed. 

History: Now age 39
cycle 1 IVF long protocol: only 4 eggs no fertilisation for unknown reason
Cycle 2 ICSI long protocol: only 3 eggs 2 fertilised 9/10 and 7/10. Failed to implant
Cycle 3 ICSI short protocol: 12 eggs. 7 fertilised all 10/10. 2 failed to implant.

I'm now waiting for my follow up appointment in regards to possible frozen cycle. Any advice, any success stories with such a bad history would be appreciated. We are beginning to give up hope.

Ayrshire Lady


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## poots (Jan 28, 2009)

Hi Ayrshire Lady

I am currently in the middle of a natural FET cycle, only 2 frosties though, so I can't comment on whether all five of yours should be defrosted!  My clinic said to thaw both of ours this time because, as they put it, it is better to have one good cycle than two bad ones.

Anyway, I can say that my natural FET cycle so far has been a vast improvement on the ICSI cycle I had previously.  No drugs means no mood swings, no tiredness, less stress and a feeling of normality, which has to be a good thing for the chances of success.  Plus my clinic said that if they are not 100% happy with the progress of the natural cycle, the embies will be left frozen this month and we start again next month with drugs.  So I felt there was really nothing to lose by giving the natural cycle option a try.  Perhaps you can arrange something similar with your clinic - give it a go naturally, with the option to change to a medicated cycle if you are not happy.

BTW, natural FET is not 100% drug free - I will still be having the lovely cyclogest pessaries after ET - oh joy  

good luck with whatever you decide,
poots xx


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## kaypea (Nov 15, 2007)

Hi Ayrshire lady
I'm the same age as you and am so far 29 weeks along after a successful FET.
I felt that the FET put much less stress on my body (was still in pain after EC when ET came along with the fresh cycle) and I;m sure that contributed in some way to its success.  Like you I had unexplained implantation failure.
We had 6 frosties, of which only 4 survived the thaw and only 2 developed enough to  be put back on day 3, with only one fighter making it through, so that's why they will defrost all five.  It's not just a question of surviving the thaw, but also surviving undamaged.
My FET was medicated (which just meant 1 down reg injection, then oestrogen tablets, then the joys of cyclogest. But I think that depends on the preference of your consultant.  If your cycles are regular, there's no reason to go medicated, and, as poots says,you can always swap to  medicated I think if your womb lining isn't thickening up.
Wishing you loads of good luck - the only thing I did differently for the FET was to have acupuncture which I hadn's before.
May your dreams come true  
zz


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## ayrshirelady (Aug 31, 2008)

Hello Girls,

Thank you for the advice you have given me in regards to FET.
kaypea it is good to talk to someone around my age with unexplained implantation failure who has had success at last with FET. A spark of hope. Good luck and I hope all goes well. Can I ask your previous history? How many IVF cycles before your positive FET?

My hubby and I are finding all of this very difficult as we are part of the unexplained pot. All of our test have been normal. I have been pregnant 3 times before naturally each time unfortunately ended in miscarriage at around 12 weeks. Originally starting IVF was only meant to help me get pregnant quicker. Now I seem to be a slow responder to IVF drugs and  have an implantation problem. And we get no answers as to why.

I'm going in on Friday 1st may to have my discussion about FET. We have never been lucky enough before to get enough eggs to freeze so this is out first FET. Am a bit annoyed that following the last failed fresh IVF cycle and lack of implantation although the consultant review meeting took place GRI are telling me the first meeting I can get with a consultant to discuss why we again got no implantation is end of may into June. I'm not happy with that as my FET cycle will probably begin before I get to see the consultant again. It kind of makes me feel they have given up hope on us and the Dr's would once again have no more info on why things keep failing.

Poots please let me know how you are getting on with your FET. Wishing you all the luck in the world  

Ayrshire Lady xx


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## karenanna (Dec 27, 2008)

Hi Ayreshirelady

I know you posted on my thread on this board as we have a similar history of IVF failure and are not too far apart in age.

Given your history of miscarriage, I just wondered if you had had any of the immune tests done - I've attached a link prepared by someone else.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=82741.0

I would also recommend reading 'Is you body baby friendly' by Alan E Beer.

You may have looked into this already, but it is certainly worth a look if you haven't. I had a number of tests done (Natural Killer cells, thyroid, thrombophilias) they came back all clear, but I felt it was worth doing.

Best wishes Karenanna xxx


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## kaypea (Nov 15, 2007)

Hi Ayrshire Lady,
I had the one fresh cycle of IVF, but had never been pregnant, despite trying for 4 years (and the odd mishap when younger!).
The consultant thing I find strange - for my FET I didn't see mine the whole time!  We'd seen him for a 'post failure' talk but that was it! And then he just said they don't know why.
However, I do know that  they monitor from afar as it were (checking notes etc.) and I felt a great deal of trust towards the nurses.  Are you a private or NHS patient?  Because if you are private, feel free to stamp your feet!!

If you can afford it, I would recommend acupuncture.  It will help your body prepare for the embryos, balance the affects of the drugs, and also help mentally with the stress.  I'd recommend starting as soon as you can to get your body in good condition following the stress of IVF.

Really good luck to you  
xx


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## watn1 (Mar 14, 2008)

AFternoon  

  We had 6 frosties to begin with and our clinic thawed them all. 1 didn't make it and 2 didn't continue to divide which meant they had 3 to choose from out of the 3 there were 2 clear better one's which were 6&8 cell the other was only 4 so we had the better 2 transferred. I tired a natural FET 1st but we missed ovulation so I had a half medicated cycle which meant I started taking HRT on Day 2 of my cycle and waited for my lining to build and then had transfer when my lining was ready. We were lucky enough to get pregnant during our first transfer. I wasn't a big fan of FET and was so dissapointed as I wanted fresh but how wrong was i? I have seen such fab results lately with FET working. 

Good luck for your cycle.xx


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## ayrshirelady (Aug 31, 2008)

Hello Ladies,

Thought I would update you with my story. Attended the clinic on Friday. I'm currently still an NHS patient at GRI.
After a demand got to see a consultant. Consultant was actually a new different consultant. he was very nice and patient with our questions. However, once again even with our last cycle failure we have no explanations. According to records my last ICSI cycle went well, good hormone levels, good response too drugs and much better number of eggs and 7 grade one embryos.

Consultant admitted that looking back at my case history they should have tried the short protocol 2nd time around as I did not respond well to the long protocol. Maybe if they had done that I would have got an FET chance after cycle 2. Doctor also discussed the fact that some clinics do carry out immune tests but that amongst the medical profession there is much debate over these tests and treatments. Consultant said that unfortunately at present there are no qualified scientific studies to prove that immune testing and suggested treatments have any bearing on the outcome of a pregnancy.

So, we carry on towards our FET and pay   that amongst my 5 brave little frosties there is our little one. Looks like an FET cycle in June for us so a month off to stay healthy and fit. I'm looking into some acupuncture even though I hate needles. Will acupuncture make me less stressed r more stressed if I don't like needles in general. Have a real phobia about needle pain and seeing needles entering the skin. Hey I'll try anything.

Thanks again for all your posts.

Ayrshire Lady xx


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## bettylou (Oct 21, 2008)

Hi ayreshire lady

Just wanted to tell you that I had my first ever acupuncture session last week and I'm needle phobic too (my DH had to do all my injections as i just can't look at the needle going in - what a wuss!) Anyway, it was fine. The needles are really, really fine, not at all like hyperdermics and I didn't even feel them going in. Have felt really well and relaxed since the session and am going back again this week. Hope this helps and lots of luck with the FET.

Bettylou x


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## sillylally (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi girls - can I join you please ?  We start our first FET today, got one injection to d/r which is so different to the weeks of buserelin I normally have.  We have 6 frosties & they plan to defrost 3 at a time. 

The different things we're doing this time are Assisted Hatching, acupuncture & having Prednisolone steroids to lower my over active immune system (Lichen Sclerosus diagnosed a couple of months ago) hoping that my body won't attack any embryos that are put back.

Kaypea - lovely to see you had success hun. I too am at Esperance & find the nurses there so lovely & supportive. Hope you're keeping well.


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## Heelanlass (May 5, 2009)

Hi! Ayrshire lady,  

We had our DD in 2006 following a fresh IVF cycle and were fortunate also to have 15, day 2 embies good enough to freeze in three batches of 5.  Last year we decided to use our frosties to add to our family. I had a natural FET, June and Aug 2008 both tested negative. both times and like you a batch of 5 was defrosted.  The embryologists advises it gives best chance of choosing the best looking embryo's and allows for some not surviving.  All 5 survived the 'big thaw' and developed well, in fact in round 1, the embyologist had difficulty choosing two to transfer as all looked equally good.  In FET in August due to concerns of twin pregnancy, we requested to do a single day 5 blast transfer.  We are now in the position of considering our options for our last batch of 5 frosties.  waiting to speak to our Doctor for advice.  My instinct feels that at age 39, this will be our last chance so I will probably go for assistance with drugs this time starting down reg in June all being well (dreading the thought I have to say!).  The natural FET was certainly most convenient and easy.  The hard thing to deal with for me is the wasted healthy embies which couldn't be transferred as my clinic doesn't offer re-freezing of thawed embies although I heard GRI does so might be worth speaking to your embryologists as it can be done. Good luck!


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## ayrshirelady (Aug 31, 2008)

Heelanlass,

Thanks for your reply. GRI have said they will defrost 3 and see if they make the thaw and if that does not work defrost the other 2. They want me to wait for a normal cycle to pass. Then try cycle after that.

Interested in the acupuncture. Anyone know a good acupuncture practitioner in Ayrshire that has helped in fertility case?

Thanks for the support folks.

Ayrshire Lady


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## Heelanlass (May 5, 2009)

Hi! Ayrshire lady,

Thats great news they will thaw only three. Good luck!

I don't know of any local accupuncturist - it's pretty specialised during IVF. I know who will though. If you contact Cradle the local Infertility Support Group for the Glasgow Royal, Helen will be able to guide you. http://www.assistedconception.org/

I attended their meetings monthly held in Glasgow Nuffield, it was certainly a great support during treatment and made lovely friends going through the same treatment. If you can get through I'd recommend it.

Hope that helps!

Regards
Heelanlass. 

/links


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## Heelanlass (May 5, 2009)

Hi! again, Ayrshirelady, 

Looks like you just missed a talk on Acupuncture on Thursday night there, but contact them and they'll give you all the details, handouts etc.

Cradle Meetings are held on a regular basis, normally on the first Thursday of each month at the Nuffield Hospital, 1000 Great Western Rd, Glasgow (Click here for map). Our normal start time is 7:00pm and we usually finish about 9:00pm. 

New members and visitors are welcome to attend and to listen to or question our guest speakers as well as to meet up with existing members who are willing to discuss and share experiences. Please contact a Cradle member beforehand to check for last minute changes. OUR NEXT MEETING WILL BE an “Optimising Fertility” Night on the first Thursday in May (7th) with speakers on Acupuncture and Herbalism

Heelanlass


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## ayrshirelady (Aug 31, 2008)

Hi Heelanlass,

Not easy to get up to the Nuffield for 7pm. I've been recommended an acupuncturist in Stewarton Alex Gilmartin who specialises in acupuncture and infertility. They also do Hyponofertility therapy. I'm off with flu at the moment so I'm going to give this alternative therapy clinic a ring tomorrow.

been feeling pretty low what with having flu etc. I've been lying watching all the kids play in my street. Been feeling pretty miserable about things wondering if things will ever work out for us. Too much time on my hands feeling sick and thinking too much.

Ayrshire lady


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## Heelanlass (May 5, 2009)

Hi! Ayrshire lady    How are you feeling now? I know it's hard, you need to try and stay positive.  Try relaxation techniques, yoga or go for some aromatherapy to lift your mood.  If you have Zita West book, she has a good section on visualisation techniques and positive thinking.  I try to follow this (sometimes hard though, I know!)  Has GRI talked about mini asprin or there is a test that I know a friend who had several unsucceful attempts had, turned out her body was rejecting the emryo's so on her final attempt they prescribed the drug they give women with successive miscarriages (don't know what it's called), but after years of about 7 failed IVF & FET cycles she had her wee boy.  It's maybe early days yet for you to be thinking about this and hopefully you won't need to, might be worth mentioning to GRI though? 

I start DR tomorrow - sniff!!! oh joy!  have you started yet?

Good luck?


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