# Assumptions!!



## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Dear all
I have just finished my shopping this evening (yeah great) and i got to the till and the lady who was really friendly started chatting to me. It was a pleasant conversation and of course we talked about Xmas and then her children. She was lost in her own world, chatting and the way the converstation came across as if i knew and understood about having children. Its as if she just 'assumed' that i had children and that i was part of that 'gang'. She was being nice and thankfully she did not ask me if i had any? but have you just stood there in any social gatherings and people just assume you have kids..?
I was pleased because i went along with it and i thought however pleasant and harmless she was, she just didn't have a clue? I suppose physically you cannot label someone with IF, because there is nothing to identify. People go out shopping without the kids? so why wouldn't someone speak as if i would have children? It just goes to show whether the question is asked out right that can make you feel awkward. And if someone assumes you have children and you do not say anything, you can never really get away with it..i suppose we have to start learning to half listen and tune in only if we feel like it...and not let it bother us?
Love astridx


----------



## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Astrid,

Can I just say first of all well done on this!  It sounds as if, despite feeling c**p, and despite this raising questions within you,  you really managed to hold your own here an carry on having a "pleasant conversation" (well, as much as it could be under the circumstances ...)

I have definitely found that the human race can be all too quick to assume.  Having kids is sooo taken as a given.  I often wonder if I would have been just the same as those people had I not experienced IF (God Forbid), but it does make you wonder ....??  I often ask myself if, had I not been through all this, would I also just "assume" that people do have families. .... you know what, I really don't know the answer and that is scarey as I'd like to think, of course, I wouldn't.

I suppose we could look at other issues that are connected to the "assumption" thing.  Take Christmas for example.  Did she bring this up first? I am asking because for all she knew, you may not have celebrated Christmas at all ..... ?  For some reason, this year, I have also been aware of the fact that despite people buying Xmas presents in the shops and say for instance, the shopkeeper is all jolly and festive, they are making assumptions that the customer is too.  But for all they know, Christmas might be s*it for that person.  Maybe due to a bereavement, family problems,  or like all of us, due to IF.  Christmas can be a difficult time of year for many people (as we all know) and the assumptions that everyone finds it a jolly time can be quite annoying too....? (God, where am I going with this, I dont know i think i'm rambling now .....)

I can really appreciate your frustrations especially when you say, "don't people go shopping without the kids".  I think how we feel about conversations like this (when we DONT choose to tell people ...)  all depend on our mood at the time.  Sometimes we are more able to cope than others and sometimes, we prefer to talk about it, other times, we just can't be a*sed and it's just "easier" to let the other people show themselves up as being ignorant twits?!!  ; There is something really satisfying about the latter !!  D    If only they knew the half of it, I’m sure they would be embarrassed with their ignorance and really think before opening their mouths next time ……  

Hope I haven't rambled on here!!
Love to all and well done Astrid,
Gill xo


----------



## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

> but have you just stood there in any social gatherings and people just assume you have kids..?


Oh yes indeedy! Many many times more than I care to remember. This reminds me of the time myself and DH were invited to one of his colleagues BBQ's where I was shunned as slowly the whole collective group of wives and girlfriends realised I didn't have kids - but when they thought I had, they were fine with me! The mind boggles, huh? 

DH noticed what was going on and to his credit he was fuming and we made our excuses and went early so we could have a good laugh in the pub instead - without having to listen to all of their kids running around screaming at each other! 

Love,
Emcee x


----------



## pipkin (Jan 14, 2005)

Hiya Astrid

Interesting one .....

I tend to get more of the 'oh you'll know/understand once you have kids' comments which is also a grand assumption!!

xxx


----------



## pink panther (May 4, 2005)

Hi gang,
bought dh's xmas pressie last weekend, an x-box 360, and as we stood at the till, the lad (who looked about 12 years-old himself) obviously thought it wasn't for dh and not once but twice asked us if we also wanted to purchase some other gadget 'so our kids wouldn't break it' etc The lad was obviously just giving out the schpeel that they are taught to. But it p****es me off that this is seen as okay to say. Why couldn't he of just asked us if we wanted this extra add-on so 'it didn't get broken'  

lol pp xxx

And! (grumble), why assume that only kids play with x-boxes? My 35 year old child loves it just as much!

p.s If I sound super sensitive-yes, I am on the rag....


----------



## Hippy (Aug 2, 2005)

Awhile ago Tesco were doing this vouchers for schools thing, and every time I shopped there I was asked if I was collecting them. At first I was silently mortified inside thinking please don't ask me that, you don't know how much that hurts . . then I thought hey maybe I could say yes and collect them to give to my Godsons. So the following times I did just that and it was a lovely feeling to just be part of that 'other inclusive world' for a short while, and my Godsons were very excited to get loads of vouchers in the post from their Aunty   

So if people in shops etc talk to me about children I tend to now talk about my Godchildren to fill the void and this 'If you can't beat em join 'em approach' has been really helpful and saved having to have too many awkward conversations with complete strangers!

I have noticed though that when I walk past Mums on the school run near where I live, and they see me without a child I do tend to just get stared past, never get a smile or acknowledgement, whereas when I am out with my Godchildren and I am holding their hand it is a different story! So I do so understand the pain feeling like we belond to some kind of second rate underworld at times!

Love
Hippy
xxx


----------



## pink panther (May 4, 2005)

Ooops, so sorry if the last line of my post offended anyone-was ten hours into a night shift and feeling pretty grumpy. I've just woken up and re-read my post and cringed to myself-so, sorry ladies.....
lol whilst hanging my head in shame
pp xxx

p.s Pipkin, it's lovely to hear from you again honey-see you in Feb?? xxx


----------



## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Pink Panther,

What do you mean huni??  You didnt say anything offensive you silly billy!!!

Bring that head of yours back up wuman!!

LOL!!
Gill xo


----------



## Suzie (Jan 22, 2004)

hiya ladies 

Society never ceases to amaze me ! I constantly get the same things. My neighbour everytime i see her asks when we are going to have children! Silly woman we have lived here 7 years next week and it hasnt happened yet!

I was recently at a hen weekend and got the usual conversations about do i have children so i replied no but i do have foster children staying with me at times. And i still cant believe it but one woman looked straight at me and said ewwww dont think i could have other peoples children in my house!  My reply was simply well i consider it a great priviledge to be trusted with other peoples children! It was the look on her face and the ewww comment that made me so mad! and i dont normally let things like that get to me! 

Sorry seem to have rambled! 

love to all
suzie xx


----------



## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

Pink Panther - I am completely with you on the x-Box thing! My younger brother talked me into getting a Nintendo DS....I am not normally really into computer games but he was very persuasive and now DH and I are both enjoying a second childhood!   

My cousin....who has 2 children.....ripped the p*ss out of me for it. I was quite annoyed because a) its a form of escapism for me  and b) he gets to play with all his kids toys but of course thats totally acceptable!  

Hippy...what a brilliant coping tactic, to focus on your godsons as a way of feeling included. And the role of aunty/uncle/ godmother is a very special one. Am going to give that a try.

Suzie.....cannot believe that womans comment! I think that what she said is completely offensive and narrow minded. Evidently you are a million times more worthy a person than her. What you are doing is so amazing and such an important part of those childrens lives, it takes a very VERY special person to foster, and is something that she obviously could never do, no matter how simple it was for her to drop preg.  
I wish you the very best.


----------



## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi there

I cannot believe also Suzie what that lady also said...i think Hippy said it all you are worth your weight in gold!!
Hey PP, you haven't said anything wrong, you just said how you feeling at this present moment...

I have just come back from a funeral and on friday and i went back to my home town. Well i spent most of the day looking at peoples phones with photos on them with their supply of babies/children that they have all had. I do not have a problem with that, its just that i felt invisable. Not once was i asked about if i had any? not that i wanted that also. But i have come to one realisation that people just show the photos irrespective whether you have kids or not...and maybe they just move into that world and maybe some lose the art of other converation, of what else is going on in the world 
Lots of love Astridxxx


----------



## jomac (Oct 27, 2006)

Hello everyone,
the photos thing is very annoying Astrid.
It's like people are too absorbed in their own lives to even think about anyone else. Does anyone ever think about how they'd be though if they had kids. I often wander if I'd be part of the "bring out the photos " brigade. I'd like to think that I wouldn't because I'd hope all my years of being single into my late 30's had made me supersensitive about excluding others who didn't fit into the same mould.
One of the things I found difficult about not having children was the people I see at work. Patients would actually say to me "You've been married now a couple of years when are you having kids - you'd better not leave it too late you know" Most of the time I just ignored it but with one women I actually asked her why she needed to know things about my personal life when it was not relevent to the reason she was seeing me - she went bright red and I haven't seen her since. I must have been esp PMTish that day. Nosey old cow.
Anyway enough of a rave.
It's a good lesson though isn't it in not making assumptions about people because we all do that. It's made me realise how invisible lots of people are weather because they are single or childless or maybe a disability (like not being able to read) or maybe their sexual orientation. Food for thought.

Lots love Jo/Emma


----------



## flipper (Jul 7, 2004)

Hi ladies,

I've often thought when observing my friends and colleagues that the pictures of ones children are rolled out simply to give them an opportunity to proudly boast (regardless of whether junior is worthy of the excessively good PR) and that they aren't particularly interested in whether you have kids or not, nor do they seem to be conscious of their potentially boorish, excluding behaviour.  The mobile phone simply saves them the inconvenience of dragging around a 6 volume photo album.

If you can't  return the opening serve back to their court with an amusing story of your own (child/godchild/niece/nephew/dog/cat/etc) the conversation withers almost instantly.  If you do reply (or retaliate) with a child/godchild/niece/nephew/dog/cat story it is used simply as an opportunity to show you yet another picture or tell you yet another story of their amazingly talented child, they're not actually listening to a word you've said. You can almost see them working up the next story and you haven't even finished your "turn" about your witty and affectionate Vietnamese pot bellied pig!

I've often wondered if Jo if I'd be the same with photos, stories etc. and I'd like to think not but I wonder.  A relative of mine has a 3 month old and frankly, I think she's completely lost it having recently been quoted as saying that she feels completely sorry for other Mums because she is very aware that few babies are as advanced as hers.  This is a lady who until very recently I considered to be very grounded (and you guessed it, I get three kiddie photo's with every one line email).

Hey PP, don't apologise, your post made me laugh out loud and seemed perfectly reasonable for something written at 4.36 am!

Bye for now

flipper


----------



## pipkin (Jan 14, 2005)

Hi Gang

Interesting 'baby/child' photo debate.....

I know I would have been very sensitive about showing baby pics around to all and sundry BUT that is only because I know what it is like if you have IF issues and how hard it is to look at these photos and scan pics.  However, if I hadn't had this IF experience myself then I'd probably be the world's worst at showing offspring photos    

I do talk about my niece and share the odd photo of her in emails to friends    but only to people who have kids themselves or who express an interest!!  Anyway It's not like she is really mine   so I think I can be forgiven can't I - she is a cutie and the nearest I'll get to having my own    ..... I'll show you all photos of her when we meet up in Feb - I'm joking of course  

PP   Loved your post - hopefully we will all meet up in Feb for another drink and chat.  I'd love to see you and everyone again    Maybe some of the others that couldn't make it can join us this next meet up too.  

Bye for now 
Pipkin


----------



## flipper (Jul 7, 2004)

I should have added I can be pretty shameless on the "can't beat 'em join 'em front" myself!


----------

