# Newbie & bad day



## Totoro (Mar 24, 2011)

Hi Everyone

I'm 28, Dh is 30, we've been TTC for 18 months and have been told we need ICSI due to male factor.
We had our first appointment today so it's all starting now, 2nd appt on the 8th!

I've had a bad day though  after my scan the FS said I only had 12 follicles which is average, he didn't say much more than that and it has upset me as I don't really know what it means. Will I reach menopause early? It just came as a bit of shock as we'd been told it was just the male factor - not that it matters who has the problem, I just thought we had it from one direction not both!

DH had a go at me after the appt. I thought he was getting impatient because we had to change my GP details (he doesn't like waiting), so I told him to wait outside if he didn't want to be there. I didn't even say it in a rude way, but he left. When I saw him outside he said who the  was I to talk to him like that?! There wasn't anyone there when I said it so it's not like I embarrassed him.

He doesn't listen at the appt's and just sits there like a 15 year old. When I said to him that it's embarrassing for me to have him behave like that and I want him to be interested, he says that it's not happening to him so why would he have an interest?! Somedays he makes me feel like he's only doing this for me and acts like he's doing me a favour by going thru it. I *know* he wants a baby as much as I do so why does he act like this?

Sorry for the moan, it's just been a bad day. I'm not normally like this


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## Clare_M (Nov 9, 2010)

I am sorry that your DH is not behaving as he should but it is very stressful situation and maybe that's his way of dealing with it, maybe try and chat it through with him when the moments right.

Please don't worry about the numbers of folicles you have, I only had 3 and I have a beautiful daughter. I would be over the moon with 12, both cycles I done I only had 3 each time, so stay positive  

Clare
xx


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## Totoro (Mar 24, 2011)

Thank you Clare_M! Lovely to hear about your daughter, congratulations! Are you TTC at the moment?  
I knew 12 follicles wasn't dreadful but it was the way he said it and then didn[t give me achane to ask questions that freaked me out a bit! Glad to know all's not lost!

Dh is just weird sometimes. He doesn't deal with stress very well and gets angry and takes it out on me - verbally I might add!  I know he feels bad but that's no reason to take it out me is it?!  

Thank you again Clare xxx


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## quelle (Feb 2, 2011)

Hi Totoro,
We also have MF and I had 5-6 antral follicles. 12 follicles is a great number  Please do not worry about that! I have been told that I am average with 7 eggs at my first go of ICSI   So you are way ahead!
My DH, who is a doctor himself, is exactly like you DH. He really treats me and TX as if it is nothing! Lately, he is using his few working sperm to "blackmail" me in to behaving like a total slave. He says I will do/act as I am told, if I hope to get his "golden sperms" to fertilize my eggs. He acts as I am the only one wanting a baby and he is just an instrument. Before he was diagnosed he was the one pushing for a baby, not me. He is more in to babies then I am! Our first try did not work, he was heartbroken... I was devastated, and he felt responsible... This is how some men deal with this I guess. According to some twisted logic he tries to convince himself that he doesn't really care if he has a baby or not, so that he will not be disappointed when TX fails, or God forbit never works. When my test results come back OKish, my DH was even more upset as he ended up being the "only reason" for our infertility. When I was happy about AMH results or scan results, he felt like I was rubbing it in! I know, it is really strange   But this is what he told me, he said he feels like I am "bragging"! And he also told me that I can never understand what it means for a men to be unable to produce any offspring... 
I won't lie to you that it is OK. It is not OK, as the TX is very stressful, as you are the party who gets poked, probed and injected you feel like you are carrying the burden! You "expect" to be treated with concern, pamperred etc. When this is not happening it is an extra strain on the relationship...   Some men are not mature enough to deal with such a blow to their "manhood"
I hope he can come to terms with all this and be by your side eventually when push comes to show. Feel free to reach out to me when you need to. 
Love Q


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## xxMshellyMxx (Mar 23, 2011)

Hi Totoro,

I know exactly how you feel, my DH reacted in exactly the same manner, he got really shirty when he was told he had to stop smoking by the Dr, then we had a massive argument in the car on the way home, and it makes you feel like maybe you shouldn't be going through it.

I thought like you it was just the male factor, but then got told my AMH level was below average for my age (I'm 28 and my level is 7.3), and at my last scan i only had 8 follicles which was the minimum requirement, but I'm due to start injections next Thursday, so really don't worry about how many follies you have as don't think that's anything to do with early menopause.
With regards to your DH, just give him a bit of time to let it sink in, like you say he will want this as much as you, but I think it's all a bit daunting for blokes whereas us women just get on with it.  Honestly I could have   my DH on many occasions as he can be such a grump, and has said some really nasty things but then apologised afterwards when he's had a chance to calm down.

Bear with it chick, I'm sure it'll all work out for the best  

Good luck to you .

Shell x


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## Totoro (Mar 24, 2011)

*Thank you Quelle!*
What is wrong with men?! Don't get me wrong, I'm not a man hater but any stretch but sometimes when you need them most they just disappear into their own world! Sorry about DH "blackmailing" you, that's mean. I'd be inclined to withhold something he really likes maybe 
I definitely think my DH tries to make out he's not bothered in case it fails; I know he would be just as devastated as me. It's not going to happen for either of us though!!! He said to me that it's not him going through it so why should he have to know about it/ be bothered! I told him that's exactly why! I don't want to go thru this on my own!
He has apologised today tho and said he doesn't know why he lost it. Still feel a bit sad tho.

It's so good having this forum and we can all look after each other  I hope you're DH starts being nicer to you soon!

_*Hi Shell*_
Giving up smoking was the worst! Doctor told DH he had to do it and I think that being told by a Dr really shocked and he was OK about it. However, if it had been me that told him I know he would have got angry! He's managed it now tho, trouble is he really loves smoking! 

I'm not sure what the AMH levels are. I'm glad you're able to start tho! Injections just around the corner! Good luck!!!  I start my long protocol on 19th April! Eek!

Thank you both, he seems a bit better today and I think we'll have a good talk when I get home from work xxx


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## sunshine34 (Mar 28, 2011)

Hi Totoro and Quelle

I read your comments and had to reply! My DH is exactly the same!! We too have probs with MF. I am the one that is desperate while hubby goes along with it for my sake altho he does want a baby too. Do you think they act this way because of macho behaviour?? Us women get on and talk things through when the tough gets going but maybe our men struggle especially when its something to do with them? Maybe they keep getting so agitated and angry cos of stress but its I think its also a front. Male bravado and Im not bothered attitude incase it fails??

Ah well good to see most in the same boat with our other halves!!

Good luck to all XXx


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## shortbutsosweet (Feb 14, 2011)

hi totoro,
i am so sorry to hear you are having a tough time at the moment, when i read your post, i was thinking about what would happen on my first clinic visit.  I have not started treatment yet but my partner is having a difficult time dealing with our fertility issues, and he is shutting me out. I have been to an open day and to see a consultant for some investigations and tests and he has refused to come with me for those/ I know he is finding it tough but we have talked about it and after a short discussion i feel better as he explained why he feels the way he does, he has had previous icsi but unfortunately ended in miscarriage.
stay positive and stay strong.


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## Totoro (Mar 24, 2011)

sunshine34 said:


> Hi Totoro and Quelle
> 
> I read your comments and had to reply! My DH is exactly the same!! We too have probs with MF. I am the one that is desperate while hubby goes along with it for my sake altho he does want a baby too. Do you think they act this way because of macho behaviour?? Us women get on and talk things through when the tough gets going but maybe our men struggle especially when its something to do with them? Maybe they keep getting so agitated and angry cos of stress but its I think its also a front. Male bravado and Im not bothered attitude incase it fails??
> 
> ...


Hi Sunshine34

My DH can be quite macho sometimes - I call him Bill Sykes! hahaha!  I just wish he could be supportive without being angry! 
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one! 

xxx


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## Totoro (Mar 24, 2011)

shortbutsosweet said:


> hi totoro,
> i am so sorry to hear you are having a tough time at the moment, when i read your post, i was thinking about what would happen on my first clinic visit. I have not started treatment yet but my partner is having a difficult time dealing with our fertility issues, and he is shutting me out. I have been to an open day and to see a consultant for some investigations and tests and he has refused to come with me for those/ I know he is finding it tough but we have talked about it and after a short discussion i feel better as he explained why he feels the way he does, he has had previous icsi but unfortunately ended in miscarriage.
> stay positive and stay strong.


Hi shortbutsosweet

My first visit was yesterday, we had planned to postpone IVF as we only got one go on the NHS but then got offered a part in trial which will give us 2 go's! So my first visit was a bit unplanned. We haven't been offered any open days - I'm not sure they hold them, but that's sounds great. I'm sorry your DP isn't coming with you. Makes me feel very ungrateful!

I'm glad you eventually got him to open up to you. Just try not to force him to talk, do it gently and in his own time he'll be able to talk to you. He must be petrified of another M/C.

Good luck and lots of  to you all

Thank you all again!!!


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## sunshine34 (Mar 28, 2011)

Shortbutsosweet..I hope things get easier for you. Xx


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## jano (Feb 26, 2011)

Hi,

I just wanted to say that I think opinions must vary from clinic to clinic as I had ICSI twice and both times I had 11 follicles and was told that that was a good number.  Also, the stress and the unknown makes us more snappy with each other I think and we tend to take our worries out on each other.  I have been accussed of being obsessive about the tx if ever i mention it by my DH. 

Good Luck with everything.

Jano x


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## ash25 (Mar 12, 2011)

hi, oh i just had to reply to this!! it had taken me the 4 years that i have been off contraception to get my DH to even go the the doctor, we know its MF and are now only just waiting on our first appt with a specialist so neither of us have been tested at all!! you can imagine the amount of arguements we have had over the years, sometimes i feel like im the only one who wants a baby! i know he has been embaressed to go but 4 years is just taking the p**s i get soo angry with him! 

I'm glad you are on your the road to getting everything sorted out, best wishes to you and everyone else   x


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## Totoro (Mar 24, 2011)

Hi Ash!
I really don't know why men have to be so difficult! I'm sorry it's taken 4 years, but you've started your journey now. Try and not be too angry with him; he must have been scared and we all know how fragile male pride is!    Have you told him how you feel? Men don't have "biological clock" and even though you might be young-ish (I'm 2, it doesn't mean you can't feel it ticking.
Good luck and  
xxx


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## shortbutsosweet (Feb 14, 2011)

hi
thanks ladies for your best wishes, things are pretty bad between me and my partner at the moment, so i have some serious decisions to make.  Wishinig you all the best in your treatment


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## quelle (Feb 2, 2011)

Oh sorry to hear that shortbutsosweet! 
Relationships are hard even without the stress of IF... I also believe firmly that I need to make some serious decisions but do not wish to act on the spur of the moment. Expectations are hard to manage, even harder when your other half is still developing communication skills, coping skills and Emotional Intelligence (EQ)! I have always been drawn to "smart" guys and attracted to IQ   As in the case of so many smart men emotional part gets ignored when they start exercising their brain muscles.... So I guess it is safe to say I actually prepared my own fall   Add in to the mix the strange and inexplicable phenomenon of "Male Pride" and you got your hands full, trying to work thru a relationship! I hope all of your problems and worries gets resolved and you will be OK in no time!
Love Q


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## Honor77 (Jan 12, 2011)

Hi girls,

Just wanted to comment on this thread too:

We are heading down the IVF with ICSI path due to MF . Although I know DH also wants children and he's been to do all the relevant tests, either on his own or with me, as well to all the GP and FC appointments, I do sometimes gets annoyed with him, as he doesn't really talk about it and barely says a word in appointments, for example. 

By nature, he's a very private, quiet, rather shy person (also an intellectual type ) and I know that this has all been hard for him to digest, and perhaps even accept. I do wish he'd discuss it more openly with me, but I can also tell that it's affected him more than he'd ever let on/care to admit - from certain comments he's made and the fact that he's done a little research himself.

Like I said, I wish it was something we could talk about more, and I do envy those girls on here with DH/DP's who *do* talk about it, but I have to accept that that's just how he is and that it doesn't mean he doesn't love and support me and our efforts to start a family. 

For me, the best way to cope with it is to chat with others on here and friends who are going through/have been through the same, keep a diary on here and to do all I can to help both myself and DH relax and be healthy and fit for when treatment comes about. 

In addition to IF, we have also unfortunately been through many other trying times together (visas, unemployment), but we've always remained very close, and I find that by making time for laughs and   is always good for reassuring you that all is ok, and *hopefully* going to be ok!

xxx


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## AmandaB1971 (Feb 19, 2006)

Ladies

I've just been reading through your posts and firstly want to give a group  for all those suffering with their men folk!  As you get a higher post count you will be able to access the Emotional and Relationship Support Board and on there we have a Relationship Survivial Guide for those going through treatment.

Men find this sort of stuff extremely difficult to deal with and they demonstrate that in different ways; some are overly helpful and their partners feel claustrophobic as they fuss and fanny about.  Others become very withdrawn and it's difficult to connect with them and the rest get stroppy or mouthy because they either don't understand the process or feel helpless at the fact they can't do anything to fix it.  In the case of Male Factor Infertility, men go through appalling emotions about their failures, feeling like they're not a real man anymore etc.  Unlike women who can talk the issue to death either with a close friend, relative or on sites like this men don't do that they internalise it all and you need to give them some space to deal with it and come back out to face it.  The more you push them the more introverted they will become.

The harsh reality is that Infertility has a very high rate of attrition on relationships and you need to spend quite a bit of time at the start of your journey investing in your relationship, developing coping strategies together to help you get through.  The start of the journey feels stressful but that doesn't end when you start treatment it gets more intense and more difficult to deal with and if you don't invest that time making the relationship sound and ready to face the challenge you could pay a very high price down the line.

Let your DH know that you are there to talk if he wants to but that similarly you know that he might prefer not to and that's ok too.  Go out on date nights don't let this consume you so that your relationship becomes all about tx and having a baby.

Good Luck

Axxx


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## Honor77 (Jan 12, 2011)

Hi Amanda,

Glad to hear I've been adopting the right strategy! I don't pressure him into talking about it, but I do now and then pass comment on what lies ahead and how I feel, which is then up to him to further comment on or not; otherwise it's close friends and other FFs who bear the brunt of my darker emotions. 

I also try to think of nice things we can do together that can help us both have fun, relax and unwind and take our mind off it all. 

Although I wish he'd talk more about it, I know he won't and can to an extent understand why, so for me the main thing is that we remain close and I continue to know that I can count on his love and support, which he continues to show me in his own way rather than actively discussing ttc.

As frustrating as it can be, I know that as a guy he really cannot understand my desperate yearnings for a baby and why this at times gets me so down and emotional, but I have tried to explain it to him and warned him that at times it is going to overwhelm me and I am going to get very upset, but that it's like it's out of my control. He at least acknowledges that. After all, it must seem like such alien territory for men when you think how alien it all seems even to those women lucky enough to conceive without any problems!

xxx

xxx


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## ash25 (Mar 12, 2011)

thanks totoro i know all too well how fragile male pride is lol......
honor i do the same every so often something slips out of my mouth but i have learned over the years that it only causes an argument so tend not to say anything, now we're getting somewhere admitedly not very far yet but it was his own choice just wish it had'nt taken him so long! im just hoping he will start talking more through the diagnosis and treatment as i dont want to feel like hies going through it alone   my dh is already a father too so i also dont think he really does understand my need fully (previously when we've argued he has said hes alredy done all that stuff) hes always appologised after it but it still upsets me.......its nic to know that he is serious about wanting a baby this time even on mothers day he paid me extra attention saying he knew id be feeling down and upset  x x x


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