# Odd experience



## Mistletoe (Holly) (Jan 1, 2007)

I am not sure if this is even the right place to post this, but I can't think of where else. I am sorry if I offend anyone.

People who have read my story will know that I have been TTC for 8 years and my hubby has azoospermia, 2 negative surgical biopsies. I could have IVF with a donor but he won't go for that, and we are on the brink of splitting up as a result (plus other issues). We are struggling with deciding how to move on with both our lives and this is how I have got here.

Anyway, today I popped out of work to the London Women's Clinic to see Natalie Gamble about legal issues of possibly pursuing donor sperm and being married to a man who does not consent/divorce etc, and as I was on my way back an older lady got on the bus and sat next to me.

She started talking to me in an accent (she was from cyprus) and was telling me about her day, general chit chat.

Then she asked me if I was married - I am not wearing my wedding ring at the moment, so I told her that I was, but not so good right now.

Then she asked me if I had children, I said no, that was part of the problem.

She then started telling me about her own struggle with infertility and how sad she was now as she had lost two babies and had been to Oxford Circus to find help, but there was something wrong that they could not fix in those days (that is Harley street - where I had just come from).

She told me how she would have loved children, and would have grandchildren by now and then touched me on the arm and said "you are young, you must go and have baby, the doctors will help you". She was really intense and I found it very odd that a complete stranger should get on a bus and read my mind, almost.

Later, it struck me that I have had a few odd experiences in the last 8 years since my mother died and I have been TTC.
I wondered if she sent a guardian angel to talk to me. 
You must all think I am totally crazy, but there have been some very, very odd things happen. Too long stories to mention now. Almost unexplainable things.

Am I mad, or just sensitive to things like this because of the raw emotional state?

Hazel


----------



## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Dear Hazel,

It is vey late and I am up because my biological clock is all askew, so please bear with me!

My gut reaction is to say don't take too much notice of this encounter. I am sure the lady both tuned in to your situation from the clues you gave and meant well. However, her good intentions cannot change whatever will happen for you. 

Her suggesting you may be luckier than she was could be a way she can continue to be optimistic and so what she said may be more about her own needs than a prediction for your future. 

As someone well past the fertility years I wish well towards anyone I meet who is going through the struggles of TTC in the face of IF issues and hope that new medical breakthroughs will make them luckier than I was. And maybe they will be. However, my wishes for their good fortune cannot be stronger than either the treatment they may recieve or their own hopes and  so cannot make any difference to the outcome. 

Whilst I was TTC I went to a Chinese docor and once he had finished with me he said "come back and see me with your baby." I so much wanted to believe he knew something about my future. So I totally understand what you are hoping for. 

I am so sorry if this seems negative, but that doesn't mean you won't be lucky. I just don't feel that this encounter is either an influence on or a prediction of your future.

I don't think you are mad, just clinging to hope, and in your situation that's not a bad thing! 

Love, jq


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi Hazel, I don't post on this board normally and so hope the ladies here don't mind me replying.  I'm so sorry you are in such a difficult position, I really don't know what I'd do in your situation but I do feel I would have difficulty in staying in a marriage where my husband refused to agree to my being treated with donor sperm, because he is depriving you of something so huge.  I don't see how I could move on from that without harbouring a lot of resentment against him 

You are undecided about being treated alone so it's no wonder you are sensitive to things like this conversation.  I didn't interpret it as a sign that you would be luckier in the tx, I thought you were asking if it might have been a sign from your Mum telling you to go for it.  Personally, I would take it as that, especially if you think you have had other signs, but it is an intensely personal issue so won't be surprised if others say we are both crazy!

But taking any question of Guardian Angels out of it, this woman was still giving you advice which has to be taken in the context of her wisdom and life experience and it has given you food for thought - are you prepared not to have children and grandchildren - which would you regret more when you reached her age; not having children, or not being married to your husband?

Is your husband totally intractable on the donor issue or might he come round in time?  I really wish you luck whatever you decide

xx


----------



## viviennef (Feb 22, 2005)

Hi, hope you don't mind me posting on here but your story touched me. I read a book called The Celestine Prophecy which basically says that there is no such thing as coincidence and everything happens for a reason. People come into your life at certain times to help or give you guidance and maybe that woman on the bus sat next to you for a reason. Sorry if I sound all hippy dippy!

Is your hubby dead against donor sperm or do you think he may come round? I was in the same situation with my DH, he really struggled with the idea at first but we went to counselling at the hospital and it really helped us. I also had to be honest with him and tell him that if he couldn't do it then there was no future for us as my longing for a child was so great, I couldn't have sacrificed it for anyone. I was just lucky that he came round and is a wonderful dad to our sons. It might be worth seeing if your hubby will go to counselling with you.

I really hope everything works out for you.   

Viv


----------



## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi Hazel, 

Was just wondering how you are. Of course there all all sorts of perspectives on this "odd experience" and I hope you are making some sense of it. Keep well, hun.

Lots of love 

Jq xxx


----------



## Myownangel (Aug 24, 2005)

I think that there is resonance in such experiences - and we find the meaning for ourselves. I sensed from your post that you think perhaps your mother is trying to communicate with you - stranger things have happened. Whether it is supernatural or just a prompting to your own subconscious - it is still very valid. A message that you must give some thought to.
Bernie xxx


----------



## Joan (Oct 22, 2005)

Hi Hazel,

you are not mad. of course she was an angel. but don't talk about it to people because alot of them will think you are crazy and then treat you differently. all kinds of messages and signs and 'wierd experiences' happen all the time. it's up to you to decide what they mean. if you are sensitive and spiritual and open, you will receive them.

sort out the hubby. get the donor sorted and have some babies for heaven's sake.

love from Joan x


----------



## estraka (Aug 16, 2008)

Hi,
I hope all is well with you Hopeful Hazel.  I agree with jq's post - I don't think she is saying it is not possible that there is more spiritual meaning in the encounter, just that it is more likely that you had an emotional and instinctive connection with this woman through shared experience; but that doesn't mean to say that what might work for her would work for you.  

I've thought a lot about the donor option - originally we thought that my husband's sperm count was the only problem and I considered broaching with him the option of donor, but we still had ICSI to try and were hopeful that would work, I thought it was too early to mention and I would leave that bridge alone until, god forbid, we had exhausted other options.  Then it transpired that an even bigger problem is my own low reserve of eggs so that whilst his sperm condition means ICSI is pretty much the only option, my egg condition means that the odds of ICSI working are incredibly low.  Now the doctors have mentioned that donor eggs might be the best option - still using my husband's sperm.  

I'm personally still totally undecided on the whole thing.  It seems to be a biological instinct that I can't describe to want to experience pregnancy and the feeling that that might help bond with the child.  But would my mothering instinct be enough if the child wasn't biologically mine but was biologically my husband's? I think it would - but it does put a different complexion on it that needs careful thought.  And if the baby isn't biologically mine then why not adopt in the first place and give an existing child a chance in life?  My husband seems happy to support whatever option but I think it will come to my decision ultimately.

I feel that my genetic programming is strong; my default mode is set on 'mother' and I'm not sure what to do if I don't fulfil that, but it would be easier I think to transfer that nurturing to a child that wasn't necessarily genetically my own.  Men are genetically programmed to procreate too - but not necessarily to 'parent'; my husband would make a great dad but I know his greatest drive is the thought of having a son that will take after him.  Also, a lot of men worry (and not always consciously) about their partner neglecting their needs once a child is born and because the bond between mother and child tends to be stronger, they worry about being the spare part.  This worry must be ten times as bad at the thought of the child not being biologically theirs but having a stronger genetic as well as emotional connection to the mother.  

If you look at it as an objective moral dilemma - you have a right to have a baby that you wish to exercise; he has a right to choose not to have a baby that isn't biologically his.  The two would seem to be mutually exclusive.  People can take sides as to which they feel is the stronger 'right' but it won't help your situation.  But maybe there is some hope for mediation?  What are his underlying reasons for being so against using donor sperm?  Can those be addressed that would allow him to consider it?  It sounds as though you have almost decided that your own motivation to have a child is stronger than your need for the relationship...i.e. you would rather be alone - or partnered with another man - with a child, than be in a relationship with him without one.  I can totally understand that (have thought the same myself at times), but equally I can understand how devastated and rejected and probably inadequate he might feel if that is the message he is getting.  Perhaps couple counselling would help?

I believe there is certainly no right or wrong in these situations and only you can judge what is right for you.  

I so hope things work out for you whatever path you choose. x


----------

