# 3 Years Jail for IVF.



## Anthony Reid (Jan 1, 2002)

Poland News article today....



> The "Contra In Vitro" Committee For Legislative Initiative is seeking 100,000 signatures to initiate a Project to change the civil code regarding the implementation of in vitro fertilization in Poland.
> 
> Head of the committee, Jacek Kotula, from Tyczyn in southeastern Poland, claims that the group aims to propose legislation before the Sejm, the lower house of parliament, after collecting enough signatures.
> 
> ...


Full article here :
http://www.polskieradio.pl/thenews/politics/artykul102604_three_years_jail_for_ivf.html


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

Well, they're a nice forward thinking bunch of folks, aren't they! 


C~x


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## loobylou713 (May 8, 2005)

Think I will stick to Czech then for my treatment don't want to be sent down for it lol.

Linda
xxx


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## cleg (Jun 27, 2006)

read that with me gob open 

so yes Caz doesnt look like they want to go forward ey   

xxx


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

WTF??!!  Are they going to ban penicillin while they're at it?  Hey why not go the whole hog, and ban all medical treatment?!  I'll be interested to see if this actually gets implemented...

Hmm just had a thought, DH is half Polish, this might explain his occasional dinosaur like views on anything remotely modern, like dishwashers!   

xxx


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## sallywags (Jun 27, 2005)

OMG - i'm speechless, which is unusual for me!


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## Anthony Reid (Jan 1, 2002)

If it does get implemented I dont think anyone will ever moan about the HFEA again


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## swhattie (Feb 9, 2009)

Am I being hideously thick here, only If Im right, then Im flabbergasted! Are they saying that if a person has IVF in Poland then they could get locked up?!


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## sallywags (Jun 27, 2005)

That's what this group are campaigning for, yes!!


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## swhattie (Feb 9, 2009)

Bl00dy hell!! Mad as squeaky cheese!


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

Tony Reid said:


> If it does get implemented I dont think anyone will ever moan about the HFEA again


 I quite agree!

C~x


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## bennyB (Jan 16, 2007)

Or, it will make us realize just how precious control over our own bodies is - and therefore create MORE hostility to the HFEA, (hopefully!)

Cheryl


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

Why would you want to create hosl7ility towards the HFEA? I don't understand that? I am not saying they are perfect but I would rather have a governing body like the HFEA overseeing the medical and ethical culture of fertlity teatment than, say, be in the U.S. system and have people poppping out octuplets and quads left right and centre. When you look at the two extremes here (the U.S. regulation-free system and the proposed Polish-IVF-is-a-crime system) I do kind of thank my lucky stars I live in the UK where things a re more or less sensibly managed.

C~x


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## bennyB (Jan 16, 2007)

Nope, I do not agree. All and any hostility to the HFEA is good in my book. They are a body of interfering, meddling, do-gooding, moralistic twits as far as I am concerned. I am sorry, but the US is NOT popping out octuplets willy-nilly as you suggest, this happened in one very high-profile instance when a woman had (as you correctly pointed out in another post) 6 embies transferred so it was accidental anyway. In general, the non-regulated US system works pretty well, and i say that as someone with many US connections and friends who have experienced the fertility system stateside.

I would rather we trust women, in consultation with their doctors, to make their own decisions about their lives, their bodies and their fertility.

please note that these are not the opinions of Fertility Friends but those expressed by a member


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## sallywags (Jun 27, 2005)

How can you say that it was accidental?!?! Just because she 'only' had 6 embryos transferred - that is still an enormous number!! it's not like she had 2 or 3 embryos and they miraculously split into quads each.  They knew that there was at least the chance of sextuplets, which is still a huge thing for the body (and the medical fraternity) to cope with!


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

bennyB said:


> Nope, I do not agree. All and any hostility to the HFEA is good in my book. They are a body of interfering, meddling, do-gooding, moralistic twits as far as I am concerned.


Hmm, well you are certainly entitled to your opinion and no doubt you have good grounds for your ambivilence to the HFEA but, while I think they have a lot of faults, I don't share that opinion.



bennyB said:


> I am sorry, but the US is NOT popping out octuplets willy-nilly as you suggest, this happened in one very high-profile instance when a woman had (as you correctly pointed out in another post) 6 embies transferred so it was accidental anyway. In general, the non-regulated US system works pretty well, and i say that as someone with many US connections and friends who have experienced the fertility system stateside.


I would hardly describe putting 6 embryos back into a woman with proven fertility as an accident... "Oops, I slipped and all six fell into her uterus!" 

Nor is it a one off; I would beg to disagree that the non regulated U.S. system work well given this: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=177980.0 and this: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=178833.0

They are far from an isolated cases. There are many examples, even here on FF, where people have gone abroad for treatment and had more than a reasonable number of embryos replaced and not always with happy consequences.

The problem with trusting women and doctors to make their own decisions in these cases is that doctors are under immense pressure to get results (both by the patient and by the buisness because, for most, it is a profit making venture). And patients will do almost anything to get a BFP - heck I know I would have gladly consented to a football team's worth of embryos in me had I thought it would get me pg. 
When you put those kind of additional pressures on patients and doctors, you don't necessarily get a decision that is based on reasonable and informed choices about what is clincally best for the patient. And the focus is on the result (i.e. getting pregnant) and not the consequences (i.e. the complications a mutiple birth might bring). 
Sometimes, people are not necessarily better off having that much control over medical matters and espcially not when it is everyone else who has to pick up the pieces of what's left.

Although, that's entirely off topic from some luddites who want to actually jail people for wanting to do the one thing we're all biologically designed to do. It is a fine line indeed.

C~x


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## bennyB (Jan 16, 2007)

Well, speak for yourself. I only had two embies transferred and would not have consented to more. The fact that most women are responsible about such matters and not hysterically inclined to transfer a football team is what guides my judgement that they should be trusted.

My point about the octuplets mum stands - it is an isolated case, the ONLY case EVER to have 8 babies born alive. It is a miracle of modern medicine and not something to sneer at. I recognise there are risks with multiples but that is something to go into the balance for women and doctors to decide between them. (By accident, I mean 2 of the 6 embies split to make twins and that was not planned. She claims she was just hoping for ONE baby and thought 6 would give her a better chance. Also, the DR was a personal friend so I guess he bent the rules for her?)

No amount of scaremongering will make me think that the HFEA or any other body of condescending, moralising, unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats know better or can be trusted more to make decisions about medicine, babies, risks, and all things to do with fertility than the woman concerned and her doctor. I trust them WAY more than the HFEA. 


please note opinions expressed are by an individual and not Fertility Friends


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