# egg quality over 40



## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

Hi i'm currently pupo with two IVF embryos one of which is a grade 3 and one a grade 3-4, (where 1 would be the best and 4 the worst... )
i'm 41 on my first ivf cycle. 
i keep hearing stuff about how strong drugs might affect embryo quality. But i am not sure how to find out how much of the low quality is down to the drugs and how much is down to my age.

assuming this cycle doesn't work (odds are low) i will need to make decisions about further treatment but i am uncertain about whether to try long protocol again or go for something else. i had 450 gonal f reducing to 375 at which point they added in menopur, and an ovitrelle 250 trigger. 

any thoughts? should i assume the poor quality is an age thing? or am i likely to get a better quality from another protocol? i had 11 eggs at egg collection of which about 5 were immature, 2 failed to fertilise using iCSI, 2 fertilised using ICSI and 2 fertilised using IVF. they said none were suitable for freezing, which i found very disappointing. 

also does anyone know of any information regarding rates of implantation vs embryo quality?


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## jules40:)x (Jun 15, 2011)

First of all good luck, don't give up there are a lot of stories on here about low quality embryos making it through   If you are not lucky this time though it may be worth considering a short protocol cycle, we got 8 eggs on our LP cycle but only 2 were suitable for transfer and it ended in a BFN, it was recommended by our new clinic that we try SP as it is said to produce fewer but better quality eggs and they said they always reccomend it for women of our age . . . . we only got 4 eggs (which we were prepared for) but 3 fertilised and 2 were top quality, the 3rd was 'ok' but not suitable for freezing - they put all 3 back at day 3, well the rest u can see from my sig xx


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## Ellie.st (Mar 11, 2005)

Dear Goldbunny
As Jules says, don't give up on your embies yet - low quality embies can surprise you so fingers crossed.  I started IVF when I was 40, and the quality of my eggs (and fertilisation rates) actually improved over the course of three IVF cycles over two years.  I don't know exactly why this happened - for my second and third cycles, I asked for and received Menopur instead of Puregon, as I had read that that could improve egg quality in older women, although I think there has been some research since then suggesting the opposite, so who knows?. (I had LP on all three cycles.)  I also started taking a bee pollen supplement a good bit before my second cycle which is supposed to improve egg quality, and worked on getting more protein into my diet.  DH and I also rattled with other supplements all the way through our IVF cycles.  My experience was that egg quality and fertilisation rates increased as the number of eggs I produced reduced.  (First cycle - nine eggs, five fertilised, two good enough to go back, none for freezing.  Second cycle - eight eggs, four fertilised, two put back and two frozen. Third cycle - four eggs, three fertilised, two put back and one frozen).  My DD came from the third cycle, and I suspect that my DS also came from it in a later FET, although I don't know for certain as we used embies from my second and third cycle. (PS: if you go for the bee pollen, make sure it is bee pollen produced in the UK as I got a fright when I discovered that the UK company I had bought it from had actually bought it in from China and that there was a chance that it was contaminated with a chemical not permitted for use in the UK.)

I don't think that you should automatically assume that egg quality is to do with your age and I agree that it is worth checking out other protocols (long and short) as well as looking at what you might be able to do yourself to improve egg quality.

However, the main thing just now is to send lots of      to your wee embies.  I hope they are snuggling in as I type.  Sending you lots of     

Ellie


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## nevergiveup1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Hi Goldbunny   

Dont focus on quality or stats. I know it is hard but I really didnt think it would work for us after 40 and before 40 had decided my cut off was 40, no more treatment after 40 as the stats were bad and my eggs were cooked. We conceived my DD at 38 and had her at 39. Started trying for a sibling 1st cycle one month before 40, so decided to just try for 18 months. It took one year and we conceived twins one month before I turned 41!!

I never really thought it was going to work. I too found that since I joined my clinic at 39sh my fertilisation rates have always been 100% and I have had top quality embryos. I think my embryos like the conditions at this clinic as i am sure they all have slightly different mediums etc etc. I think whatever they "feed" the embryos at this clinic, my embryos love. I personally think that it has a lot to do with the clinic and embryologist. It is too odd that in 4 fresh rounds with my current clinic I have 100% fertilisation and excellent quality embryos each time when in the past my fertilisation rates were lower and I didnt have great quality.

maybe it was the different drugs used?? At my current clinic although I was on 450iu, the doctor used to only do stims every second day and triggerred me earlier than other clinics had, much earlier and the first cycle with him when we conceived my DD I was convinced that the eggs were not going to be mature!! 

But I had tried a natural cycle to at create health and a mild cycle and my embryos also didnt do too well on those cycles.?? Maybe it was the collecting earlier. Also we did a day 2 transfer on both times that we had ongoing pregnancies. When we did a day 3 we got a bfp and it never developed twice. Maybe my embryos like day2... who knows!!

I didnt do much in the way of suppliments but just before 39 did some accupuncture and about 3 - 5 months of chinese herbs... the teas. That is all.

I truly believe a lot has to do with the environment of the lab and the skill of the embryologist and not all embryos will thrive in the exact same circumstances. mine like my current clinic and whatever they do but didnt do as well before that in the other 5 clincis we tried, as I never had excellent quality before, something to think about.  

It is not all about age!! So that is a good thing! If a year ago you had told me with my 41ish year old eggs after 14 fresh rounds of IVF... I would be expecting twins     So there is always hope and definately quality can improve with age or as you get better at IVF


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