# Empty Follicles Twice



## TB2306 (Apr 11, 2010)

I wonder if anyone can help me?

I have just had my second round of IVF abandoned after EC, both times I had follicles but when collected I was told they were empty, despite several flushings.

What I am confused about is that the ARGC said all my hormone levels, bloods etc were fine? Also my periods are as regular as clockwork, but the doctor there said what must be happening is that I am producing cysts rather than eggs and has told me my chances of conceiving naturally or via IVF are nil as I cannot produce eggs even though I am not in menopause according to my hormone levels?

I am so confused, has this happend to anyone else?

Thanks


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## Sparklyone (Feb 25, 2009)

Hi TB2306

I saw your post on ARGC board and my heart sank for you. I had the same on my 2nd IVF - 9 follicles but only 2 contained eggs. The rest were cyst like. My first cycle a year earlier I had 17 egg from 20 follicles. 

I too am confused as about to start a cycle with ARGC and they said this would not happen again as they would be able to tell by my hormones tested daily during stims. However I do know that if you have high E2 levels it can be that you may have a cyst when they do your day 1 hormone tests so I can only assume that cysts give out E2 too so it would be difficult to tell whether they are follicles containing eggs or cysts. So whatever ARGC say I don't think they can tell. 

As I understand it if you google "empty follice syndrome" you will find that it does not really exist as if they were follicles they should have had an egg in them. They point to a number of things that cause it - mis injecting your HCG or faulty trigger meds. For most it does not reoocur but for a small number of people it does. I would imagine these are the people who produce cysts rather then follicles. 

I was told on the last cycle that it may have been due to the fact I had a cyst and had it aspirated before starting stims. ARGC suggested that if it was still there I would need it removed. Luckily I had a scan and there is no cyst at the moment but whether this means I will produce cysts again rather then follicles I do not know.  Did you have any cysts before you started?

I have endo and I can understand from other ladies that it can eat away at your ovaries and damage the surface stopping proper follicles and eggs being produced. This however does not explain how one one cycle you can get 17 eggs but a year later have more cycst then follicles. A year is not long enough to do this much damage. Do you have a history of endo?

My hormones like you are all fine. 

I know the Dr was very blunt with you and that must have been very difficult but I hope that means you can now look into other option to continue your journey if you want to.

I am so sorry I cant be much more help. I am petrified of waking from the EC and having the same conversation you have had and when I read your post yesterday I had a cold shiver down my back so wanted to at least come on and tell you what I know.

Take care

Sparkly xx


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## TB2306 (Apr 11, 2010)

Dear Sparky,

Thank you for your reply.

It is indeed confusing as it clearly says on all I read that empty follicles are just not possible? I was further confused when the ARGC told me all my daily bloods were great and that I was ovulating. They said you can ovulate with hormones and no egg, but again this seems contray to all I read?

The ARGC said the same to me, that it was unlikely to happen twice and the fact they monitor every day and change things would let them know how to ensure it didn't, but alas it did! I really hope you have better luck with them and me and that this time it works for you   I must say I do feel quite let down by them, for the amount I paid....

Oh and yes they did remove a cyst?


Tracy xx


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## Sparklyone (Feb 25, 2009)

I know if you have a cyst/small cysts the cysts feed off the stims and grow bigger which is why you always have them aspirated before starting stims and whether if they were there already this is what happened. As you had 3 eggs on your first cycle I am surprised they said thats it and that you cant produce eggs. I wonder whether if you could have a lap to remove any cysts completely rather then just an aspiration whether it would mean you could respond better. It is worth a call to ask? Would you want to try again?

Sorry I cant help more but I hope it helps to know you are not alone      . I wish there was some specialist out there that is looking into this and that could give you more help.

Sparkly xx


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## strawbs (May 16, 2005)

Hi

This happened to me on my IVF.  I had 18-20 follicles and only 2 eggs, one of which was mature.  I was absoultely devastated.  The consul said I reacted as though I had not taken my trigger shot which I had and blood tests showed I had.  He had only seen this x2 in 18m (me being one).

He consulted with a lead ovarian specialist not sure who and for my next IVF they wanted me to take the pill before I started, stop metfomrin and re-start it once I had started stimming (I have pcos).  I didn't need the ivf as had a BFP naturally!

I have no advice, I was at Woking Nuffield and saw Mr Riddle

Good luck, it is heartbreaking

strawbs xx


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## always-hoping (Oct 11, 2010)

Dear strawbs,

It is amazing isn't it that someone can have an unsuccessful IVF then fall pregnant naturally.  I am just waiting for my first IVF cycle.  My worst nightmare is that I produce no eggs or that I produce lots but none of them will fertilise.  I was just wondering did you fall pregnant before you started taking the pill for your second IVF cycle?

Congratulations on your 2 babies.


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## Sparklyone (Feb 25, 2009)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2700670/

Just read this - very interesting 

/links


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## TB2306 (Apr 11, 2010)

Sparky - thank you, very interesting indeed. As I went to the UK's best I am not sure it is worth another shot, but I will book a follow up appointment and take this article with me!

Thank you again xx


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## Sparklyone (Feb 25, 2009)

Good luck hun


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## skyblu (Sep 9, 2010)

TB2306,

I just read your post and had to reply.
I cant give any advice as this has never happened to me.
When I started my IVF journey I was allways told, that no matter how many follicles you produce it does not mean that there are eggs in all follicles, were you ever told this?

I am so sorry this has happened and hope you get some answers soon.
Take care and best of luck on what you decide to do next.
Big    
Skyblu.xx


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