# New Girl to FF



## Vicki13 (May 26, 2008)

Dear Girlies 
I am new here - but I have been on this website quite a few times before now and decided to join - as having been through 1 failed IVF - I realised how little support is out there - and how sick and tired I am of nurses aged 25 telling me how it will be ok - or consultants quoting statistics at me while smiling - or how it's impossible to get any information out of them - in my experience you have to ask them EVERY SINGLE THING - my consultant has messed me around so so much - that I will never go back to him - and thanks to this website I won't have to (!!!) ......... SA I found out that I can go directly to the head Embryologist at the Lister but I see the way you girls support each other - are there for each other and genuinely seem to give a damn about what happens.........when to be quite frank the hospitals don't seem to -  even though you all have your individual stories - some successful some not....... and I thought - that instead of having to go this "alone" so to speak - I would join....... I know this posting will be incredibly long - but it you have the time please do read it.......... 

I suppose I should tell you a little about myself - I will be 37 in June - my Hubby just turned 39, we've been married almost 3 years and trying for a baby since Aug 2005.  Funny thing is I never really wanted kids - was quite happy with my life as it was - the two of us - careers - travel etc - but DH has wanted them since he was 18 believe it or not - (he's French and I think they view family differently there - I always saw kids as the end of my life as I knew it and I have never been maternal - never looked at a baby before thinking - "I want one" - always more of an "ugh" - and maybe this is the Universe teaching me a lesson).  Nothing happened and by July 2006 he went to get checked out (I'd already had some tests and all came up ok) - his doctor at the time pulled out a sperm test taken back in April 2004 and said you'll never have kids - (basically his little swimmers are not really into swimming - and I imagine are far happier to tread water than do the front crawl!!!) - she told us we had better start IVF and that's only got a 25% success rate etc etc - it really was like someone had kicked me v v hard - and suddenly being told we couldn't have them - I knew that I wanted to be a mum - etc.  I guess it's a case of what you can't have you want most.  I see my life now - as the before and after to that day! I know what my life was like before - and what it's been like since.......

It's been a long journey - we've both taken lots more tests - (mine were all fine) hubby has taken several other tests and while his little guys are not the greatest - every consultant we visit says that it's perfectly in keeping with normal conception and that if we didn't want to get pregnant they would advise us to take precautions!!!! We did IUI 3 times last year and once this year on the advice of 2 different consultants all failed and to be honest I think that really was a waste of time - but when you're paying they're quite happy to explore all options and I feel now as if I have wasted 1 year of my life  - as when we did go for IVF recently we were advised to do ICSI also.  So why they would have let us try IUI 3 times when they felt that ICSI was the best thing for us - is anyone's guess. Background to recent IVF (and I do apologise if I am wittering on) - I wanted to be on minimal drugs as it was my first attempt, and was quite nervous as to how I would react - and I felt really angry that no matter who has the infertility problem - it's the woman who has to go through everything - I was put on 225iu of Gonal F daily and to be honest I had no side-effects - I hardly noticed it (one of my darling cats went missing for a week the day I started treatment so I was more focused on finding him and when he turned up a week later I was almost through with the injections - he definitely took my mind off it I can tell you).  I produced 17 eggs - 12 of which could be used - by the next day 10 had fertilised - we were told on day 3 that they were doing well and they would push the transfer to day 5 - which we did - I had acupuncture directly before and after the ET & when we went for the ET - the Doctor said we should only put back one - which upset me - as I had thought it would be 2 - she said my consultant would have discussed that with me (yeah right! I have had the worst possible consultant who has done nothing but mess me up at every opportunity - firstly he sent our initial letter to our neighbours with all the details - then he sent me the long protocol letter when it should have been short - then when I did decide to go ahead - he informed me of a pre-AF basline scan when it should have been a day 2 one - and he knew we were going out of the country on Day 2! And then it came down to putting back 1 or 2 - which he had never discussed with us) - so I plumbed for putting back 2 - as I was not prepared to make a decision like that within 5 minutes on ET day - when I was stressed to the hilt as it was.  Took the week off work - to relax and take things easy. A week later to the day I started bleeding - v light in content and brown in colour (TMI I am sorry) but by the end of the second day of this - I started on AF - but with no pain - nothing - unlike any other AF I have ever had before. And here is where I think I went slightly mad - (but then maybe IVF drives every normal woman mad and irrational) - 5 days into my period I decided to do a pregnancy test !!!!! No explaining it..... it was like as soon as AF arrived I felt pregnant - madness. So I used "first response" - and it turned up with a faint line - and again the next day - so I went for a blood test and the hormone level was 13 - since then it has disappeared - but they think that it implanted and just went away - which could be something to give me hope for the next try - or maybe not who knows.  We finished up with 3 embies frozen - all blastocysts - and I think I would like to try with them in July - and I guess I was just hoping for some success stories ...... I know the odds are stacked against you anyway - and with frozen even more so - as you don't even know if they will provide the thawing process...... etc etc - but I guess everyone hopes - prays - dances upside down in moonlight - or whatever they have ever read to try and get pregnant........ has anyone on here got pregnant from an FET? I guess with IVF you just have to try and throw the dice enough times and hope it comes out as a double 6!  Also what is the protocol for FET - are drugs required or not? Is there a better chance without or with? 

In terms of my friends being pregnant and having babies - well a great number of them are still single - (and that's another thing which REALLY annoys me - so many articles in the newspapers blame the increase in infertility to "women putting off having children for the sake of their careers" - yeah right - tonnes of my friends would love kids but can't meet the right guy and when they do - the guy doesn't want to settle down - and the papers never mention that fact - that boys are gadding about until they are 40 before they finally settle down......... it's always the women who put their careers first).  Of my friend who have kids, they are quite good actually and don't want to talk about them except to complain - but one of my husbands best friends - is married in Canada - the got married the same time we did - and she how has 2 little boys - popped each out easily - one was 2 yesterday - and everytime she emails me - it's all about being a mom (she doesn't work) - the joys - the wonder - the rewards - the excitement and to top it all she sends me on average 30 photos a week of her little boys......... I dread getting her emails now - she's the one person in my life that I would love to cut out - but can't because her husband is the reason I met my wonderful husband!!! Her first born was 2 yesterday - so I had all the details in advance of the party they were planning - and I know that I will get the run down when I go back to work tomorrow - but at least recently my firewall at work has forbid the link she sends me with all the photos - and if ever I could kiss our firewall for that it's now - last week she sent me a link and it was with great joy I could reply and show her the "forbidden" message I get when trying to access it............. but I have noticed that going out at the weekend in London - you really need to have blinkers on - yesterday I popped out to Kingston to do some shopping and I swear I came across at least 25 pregnant women - and that's not even counting those who had strollers - pushchairs or prams........ with toddlers of varying ages - and I have to say it makes me so so angry ....... that my husband and I who would make great parents have all this hassle - science - interfering and a clinical side to -what should be the most natural thing in the world...... and I am sick of being told by people who are pregnant that they weren't even planning it - and what a surprise it was...... only a few of my friends know - and no one at work knows - as I didn't want to face all the questions and enquiries about it - and I know people mean well but they don't realise sometimes where they are talking........ the number of times people turn to me and say "so how about you? - when will you produce one?" - I've lost count really - I would love to answer them with 2 simple words ........ and you know that is what sickens me most about society - you would NEVER go up to a person who was obese and say "so when are you going to lost weight" - or "what are you doing about your weight?" - no if you're fat you have to tip toe around everyone - not even mentioning over eating or weight conditions - but it's almost because Society cannot see our pain - that they trample all over it in their size 12's........ people who suffer from depression say the same thing apparently - as long as the problem / disability is physical people never mention it - but let it be something they cannot see and they'd tread all over it........... I get days where I go back to my old self not wanting kids - and being fine with my life as it is - going out after work for a drink or two - weekends away - time for myself - and I think "if I can't I can't - worse things happen in life" - and sometimes with everything that is going on in this world - you wonder if it is the right place to bring kids into - my husband and I are both only children - so there are no nieces or nephews - but I don't know yet if that's a good or bad thing....... but then I get days where I desperately want to be a mum....... and have a child........ I also think about adoption - as a friend of mine who has problems having a baby also was asked "do you want to be a mother or do you want to give birth?" - and I don't feel strongly enough about my own genes to reject adoption - has anyone here started down that route? 

From the treatment I have been though - I would definitely recommend that everyone women read Zita Wests book - I've read quite a few and hers is by far the best - (takes a woman to write it) - I have also been to her clinic in London and I have to say they offer the best support - I found the Hospital I used v poor at supporting me - or assisting me with questions I had - the nurses there some of them were v abrasive - and I felt sometimes that I really was just a number a "next" - some little chicken on a factory belt............ but at Zita West I felt like an individual - plus they have a while range of services you can use - none of them come cheap but they do build confidence. She also does preconception fertility vitamins - which are specially formulated for him and her - and I do swear by them - my DH's sperm result went from terrible to not bad - using those......... you can order from her website......... 

From what I have learned being on this site - is that when you cannot get pregnant - you feel so alone - and that the rest of the world is pregnant - or just given birth - but here I have read so many stories and identified so many times with something that you might say - about how you feel - or how hope can become despair in minutes and vice versa - especially during the 2 ww. Plus you ladies give hope and consolation to each other - you share information - you boost each other when needed and above all you are there when things don't work out - and perhaps even harder still you are there to be happy for each other - when they do......... eventhough your own personal stories may not be as successful.  When I go to the Hospital for scans or blood tests - every woman who comes in refuses to so much as look at another - no one talks - it's almost like having a fertility problem is catching if you speak to one another - I thought that maybe women would speak to each other but no - here it's quite the opposite - you all help each other along - through each day - and I have seen that we are all faced with the challenge of how many bumps we can see each day (perhaps we should start to record them!) - the challenge of treatment - drugs - hospitals day in day out - and then it all coming down to the 2ww....... when other women just seem to get pregnant effortlessly.......... but I guess life isn't very fair and sometimes there is no rationalising it......... and I guess all us IVF'ers are in good company - as there are certainly a number of A listers who have got pregnant through IVF or like me are in their late 30's without having had their first!!!! I DO know I am not alone - it's just sometimes I feel I am ........... my DH is wonderful - he's the most precious thing in my life - and I know without him I wouldn't have got this far - and yes I could be married to a nightmare man but have 3 kids - and for all the problems I have now - I wouldn't swap........ and maybe I will be lucky with the little frozen guys and maybe I won't - C'est la vie........ and from what I have read here - there really is no explaining nature when it comes to IVF - the best of embies can fail and the worst can turn into beautiful children......... there's just hope I guess......... and sometimes I am more positive - it's just after my little excursion yesterday into the world of Babyville at Kingston I am feeling a little blue........

So if anyone would like to reply to me - I would be most grateful..... as there are days when I cope quite well and days where it all comes crashing down......... 

Here's to the Girls!!!! On a raining Bank Holiday in London - I am hoping you all have a good day - and that you get the strength to cope with today - and all the days to come - just being able to write all this down has helped me enormously........ kinda like therapy I guess.......


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## Emeraldeyes1 (Mar 11, 2008)

Hi Vicki,
As you say you are not alone, even though it feels this way sometimes. You've found the best place for extra support from women who REALLY know what you are going through/feeling. This site has been an absolute God send for me and so many others. Just wanted to send you a   and let you know that us girlies are always here for you. Good luck with your journey.
Sarah xx


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## See Ye (May 24, 2008)

Excellent ! I'm no longer the newest newbie, I beat you to it by ooh, a couple of days 

Ah *Vicki13* you're rant reflects mine in so many ways - from the coping some days and crashing some days right down to getting married in summer '05 and ttc since. I've decided that i'm going to forgive you for putting it better than I did  

I don't know if you're able to listen to online radio at home but if you can listen to the two fertility related Woman's hours. _Hearing_ other people describe your feelings or stick up for you is very cathartic - and I understand one of our fellow FFs was a contributor to the phone in section.

/links


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## Vicki13 (May 26, 2008)

Hi there - that's so weird that you read my message - as I had read yours earlier today and it did make me smile - and identify so much with what you said........... I can just picture the stuffy nosed French doctors and nurses - did they give you the Gallic shrug also and tut tut at you as well?  I really wanted to join this site as here you can say how your truly feel........ the sadness - the frustration - the jealousy and the "why not me/us?" ........ to think when I was in my 20's and well off kids - that I used to berate couples for trying IVF etc - and complaining that it wasn't freely available - my attitude (and I apologise for this in advance) - was one of "the world is over-populated as it is - this is natures way of trying to keep things in check" - what an idiot I was - and I have to say I firmly believe that if there is a higher power - he's now teaching me a lesson......... 

I watched some footage of the earthquake in China on the night that AF arrived - at hte end of my failed cycle and I was feeling v v low - so it didn't take much to make me cry - but when I saw the migrant workers return to the school where their children had been a few hours earlier - to find it flattened to the ground...... and to see their heartbreak......... made all the worse by the fact of the "single child policy" in China - I did try to tell myself to "cop on"......... there are worse things out there - it's just sometimes we can't see them I guess.......

My husband is from Paris BTW - and we go often - it's a city I absolutely adore - and a lot more child friendly than London - but I do find looking at all those incredibly cute French kids - hard sometimes......... you never know - perhaps at some happy happy time in the future you and your husband will be walking your kids through the Jardins des Tuilleries....... !!! 

 

I will definitely try the links you sent me - thanks for being so thoughtful to do so........ 

Seems I really made the right decision to join this group.......


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## Vicki13 (May 26, 2008)

To Emerald Eyes 

Thanks for your message and it's so great to hear that there are success stories out there - Congratulations to you - enjoy every minte!!! And yes I think joining here was a "good days work" - as it has stopped me feeling so alone........


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## ilovesnow (Apr 7, 2008)

Hi Vicki13 & welcome to FF  

Sorry you've had such a rough time and the tx didn't work  

Thanks for recommending the Zita West book, I'm going to order it now.

Good luck with your next round of IVF 

Take care,

Elle xx


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## LoisLane (Apr 26, 2007)

Vicki13 & welcome to FF! 

You've definately come to the right place for support and friendship, FF will help you through the iffy times into the good times and I think it even kept me sane at times, well almost 

I'm really sorry to hear of your last failed cycle. I believe you are doing the best thing by exploring your options, particularly with regards to your consultant, so you can move forward for your next treatment. How fab that you can liaise directly with the head embryologist  at Lister. I've only ever heard good things re the Lister and am sure you are in excellent hands.

Zita West is fab, thank you for recommending her to other girls on here   I have her book and found it invaluable, very clever lady, what I particularly like about her is that she will explore anything she can and her research and recommended methods demonstrate that. What treatment etc. did you have? That q is me being inquisitive, okay nosey .

Going forward, I wish you all the best for July and sending you lots of  and  for your FET. You asked in your post about success stories with FET, I'm going to post a link to the FET board where you can read up and chat to other ladies.
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=8.0

This is a useful link for male factor, you may find some information re. dh's sa. 
Male factors -CLICK HERE

Vicki, I see you are in London, the London girls have some really active threads going. They meet up too, if this is your type of thing? I found it invaluable to get the low down on local clinics and also meet with some of the girls. This is great, cause you really feel that you are with peeps that get you . You can find the London link under here;
*Locations boards*

That should keep you busy for a bit. However, don't forget to have a bit of fun while you are on FF and check out the general chit chat / jokes / hobbies area
G&B - Community Fun board
CLICK HERE

To make the site easier to navigate click on the index tab at the top of any page - pink hearts mean there is something new within the board you have not read/looked at and if you scroll right down you will see the last ten posts from all over FF all are clickable  if you refresh this page (f5) it will update the last ten posts as well as the boards/threads and who's online!!!
take some time to look at the *help tab* too 

Sending you lots of  and  Please let me know how you get on.

Louj x


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## LAURA H (May 26, 2008)

Hi ,

Well put!!!!. I feel exactly the same everyone in my family gets pregnant when they don't even want a baby they have no job and the tax payers pay for them to live. It really winds me up . I know i shouldn't be jealous of my cousins and my sister but i can't help it. 

My sister got pregnant at 16 one of my cousins at 16 and an other at 17. Why? they are only kids themselves never held down a job or lived in the real world drives me mad.

My cousin has got pregnant by 2 different lads non of them have stuck by her She isn't a tart or anything just gets pregnant easily obviously! I don't want to **** her off but she hasn't really got patients for the kids and gets wound up so easily and shouts all the time. I put it down to her age. All i want is a baby and a happy family life. Some people have babies as acsessories

I am only 25 and have just found out I have endo and blocked tubes i have known for a couple of years that i have PCOS. The surgeon said i have to have IVF as my tubes are blocked. me and my DH have been trying for a year and half he is 40. I made sure i went the right way about things got a good job bought a house was in a settled and loving relationship before thinking about trying for a baby. Now look whats happened all my bits are swollen and i have to have IVF. I am trying to think positive that the consultant might pull something out of the bag when i go to see him in July and tell me that the surgeon got it all wrong (I'm in denial today) . Sorry to moan on and on having a bad day.


It does help to write it all down though .


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Hi Vicki & welcome to FF 

As Louj has said, you've definitely come to the right place for support and advise....I sometimes wonder how I would've got through some of my darkest moments if it wasn't for the continued support of the members on this site. Don't get me wrong, I have an amazingly supportive partner (but he's going through this infertility with me) and great friends and family....but unless you've actually experienced infertility and all it entails, first hand, then no one truely understands how it feels. 

I'm so sorry that your first IVF wasn't successful....however, it's great that you managed to get some good quality eggs and 5 blastocysts, especially as you now have 3 blastocyst snowbabies !!

There are plenty of ladies who've had success with FET....some believe that because it doesn't put so much strain on your body beacuse you're not going through the whole stimmulating phase to produce all those follicles and eggs, that in some cases it may be more successful than a fresh cycle....obviously there are factors for and against for both but it's definitely something I've thought about since we've had 4 fresh IVFs and all have been BFN (Big Fat Negative) but we've also had 2 FETs and both of those, whilst not completely successful, did result in chemical pregnancies which are very very early miscarriages, where something happened but embies didn't implant properly (same as it sounds like you had with your fresh IVF). I do have quite a few things effecting my fertility unfortunately (thankfully DP is fine so one less hurdle there) but we've been ttc for 5 years now and I'm 39 (and moving way too quickly towards 40 !)...I have conceived 5 times but just don't have a baby to show for it  Just have to keep on trying !

FET can either me medicated where your clinic control your cycle and time everything exactly, or you can have it along a natural cycle so your clinic will either get you to use OPKs to detect LH surge and time ovulation and transfer....or others, like mine, do regular scans to check womb lining and check growing follicles to detect approaching ovulation and then time transfer from there. We still have 6 frosties from one of our previous IVFs (day 3 embryos...none of our blastocysts from IVF made it to freeze) and we're looking to do FET sometime later this year (we need a little break after doing 3 fresh IVFs in last year, especially as I respond so well and lots of eggs !!). We've been advised to take our remaining 6 frosties to day 5 blastocysts on thawing so I will probably have to have a medicated FET next time (previous 2 were both natural FETs).

I'm sure you'll find FET (where medicated or natural) far less stressful than the full IVF cycle though 

As for acupuncture, why not have a little look at the Complementary Therapies board which I'm sure you'll find of interest. I'd been having very regular acupuncture for about 3 years but since we had another BFN last October I stopped and I didn't bother to have it through our most recent IVF last month, although I may consider it again as it certainly helped relax me.....but I'm also considering oesteopathy !! (and I have adhoc reflexology too). Here's the link to the Complementary Therapies board.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=14.0

I can't agree more with your comments about Zita West.  I've not actually been to her clinic but I've used her book "Fertility & Conception" almost like a bible at times ! Another good book is Marilyn Glenville "Natural Solutions to Infertility: How to Increase Your Chances of Conceiving and Preventing Miscarriage" which I found extremely helpful, especially after having a couple of naturally conceived miscarriages a few years ago.

I notice you're from London....me too although I'm a SE London girl (although I work in the City). I see you're at The Lister....here's a link to the current Lister Girls thread on the ICSI board which you may like to join...

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=139776.105

Anyway, I'm sure, in fact I know, you'll find lots of useless advise as well as the aforementioned supported on FF 

Lots of luck
Natasha


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## Dizzy one (Feb 8, 2008)

Vicki

Thank you for your wonderful post - I'm glad I kept reading 

Yes i can really empathise about how you feel - having fertility problems feels like a really lonely place to be, so finding FF is an absolute god send.

I'm so pleased to read about someone else not even being sure they wanted kids! I was never sure. DH and I have a great life and in some ways always seemed too selfish to have kids. But I think truthfully we always assumed that kids would appear one day. We both started realising we desperately wanted kids so started on this journey. But to be honest at the start I was a bit "well lets give it a go...if it doesn't work we'll just get on with our lives" but now that's simply not an option! But like you I someone wonder if we're being punished for not always having been desperate for kids.

I'm no spring chicken - 41 this year so we really do feel like we're in some sort of sick race! We've had 3 lots of IUI and have just started IVF (short protocol). Not sure how long we'll be able to keep going for - it's a high price emotionally and financially. 

Do you feel like your life is permanently on hold? That's how I feel and I'm finding that soooo tough.

We've not told anyone about Tx. Everyone thinks we don't want kids so I've never disillusioned them, seemed easier that way rather than admitting we'd failed. Going through Tx I am finding it difficult that no one knows - but I'm getting extremely convincing at lying! If we ever do get through this we probably won't have any friends left!

Sorry I'm rabbitting on....just really wanted to say you're not alone and to send you lots of   wishes for your dreams to come true.

xxxx


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## Vicki13 (May 26, 2008)

Hey Girls 

I've been trying to find time to reply to all your wonderful posts - they've made me smile - kept my heart up - realise I am not alone - and most of all I've identified with all of what you have said......... 

I haven't got the hang of how to reply to your messages individually on this page - so please excuse me while I do a round robin! 

Dizzy One - I'm doing the same as you - to all but two of my friends - I've kept to the "not sure if I really want them" - or "it's a big commitment - not sure I am ready for it yet" line - and because I have always been against having kids - or unable to see the point to them - my friends don't question me - think some of them never expected me to get maternal.  I do have 2 close friends I have told - but that's because they are closest to me - and I know understand me without judging.  It's easier to laugh it off - and say that I like my life the way it is - which is true in a sense! I do like my life the way it is - but there's still a hole there.......... and yes I feel that since Aug 2005 when we first started trying that my life is a series of 2 week periods - 2 weeks until I ovulate and then 2 weeks waiting for the inevitable afterwards - peeing on sticks - watching monitors to see if the little picture of the egg shows up - not taking flights at certain times of the month in case there was something there - not agreeing to big nights out - in case people ask why am I not drinking (I was known to be partial to a glass or two of vino in the past) - making excuses not to see people because I am down - watching what I eat - making sure I take my vitamins - god I feel sometimes like I am living on the sidelines - and then recently when the weather was nice - I passed some pubs in London with people outside drinking in the warm evening sunshine -and I realised I missed my old life - which now seems so carefree - I seemed so young in a way .......... and all the while the clock of life ticks on.......... sometimes I get angry with this baby I've never had - or might never have - because it's robbing me of the present - robbing me of the moment - because nights where I do go out and have one glass of vino too many - let my hair down - and say "sod kids" - I know that the following morning I will be waking up wondering if the extra units I had the night before will have an impact that will last for months......... and I do want to enjoy my life - because as we all know - it's too short - I have reminders every day of how short it is - and I feel that if I am never to have kids - the last thing I want to do is to look back and see how I have wasted my 30's for a baby that never materialised....... 3 of my friends are married and they have made the decision NOT to have kids - they don't want them and at times it seems so easy - if I could only get myself to that frame of mind........ because lets face it kids nowadays are no joke - their social calendar is busier than their parents - they can turn out thankless - move away - cause agro 'til they are 30 and beyond - and I wonder if this is something I desperately want just because I "can't" have it....... but I know that my DH would be a wonderful father - and he's wanted kids since he was 18 - and I picture him with the baby holder that you often see men with - you know the one where the baby lies against their chest - and it's then that I want them most.  Dizzy one - being 41 is fine - with infertility - there are no guarantees of success or failure at any age - so stay strong - didn't Cherie Blair have one at 45 or something  I agree with you - I just assumed that when I would want kids - then BANG they would appear 9 months later.......... I am Irish - and growing up in Ireland in the 70's and 80's - every mother terrified every daughter of "getting into trouble" - and we all grew up thinking that if you had sex even once with a man - then you got pregnant......... the main form of contraception in Ireland then was abstention........ and now I sometimes laugh when I think how stupid I was......... and how hard it is to get pregnant now........ 

Minxy - thanks for your kinds words and website links - yes perhaps this FET will be less stressful on my body physicially....... though coming into all this IVF / ISCI world - I did come with a lot of sceptism - that's why I went to Zita West first to have a few sessions there with the fertility nurses - because I was so so negative - I was expecting failure -the upside for me was that my reaction to the drugs was nowhere as bad as I had thought it would be......... the fact that you are getting chemical pregnancies is a good sign no - I read somewhere ages ago that the body first sees the embryo as a parasite - which it is effectively - as thoughout the 9 months - it is feeding off of us - taking our resources etc ........ which is a parasite (albeit a cute one) - and that is why a lot of women miscarry without even knowing they are pregnant - it just need to recognise that the embryo is not a parasite in the real sense of the word......... 6 frosties left is a good number to start with - you're lucky there........ and maybe medicated will make the difference this time - maybe your body this time will recognise it's seen it before - and get more used to it - afterall there are some lovely lucky ladies here who did have success with FETs.....  I also work in the city - though I am SW London - and luckily for me it's a mostly male dept - though one of the girls who works for me is pregnant - her last day is Friday - and I am glad as she is really big now - and chatting about it a lot - it's her first and naturally she is excited - I think it was worse when she told me in Jan and eventhough she's got quite a bump now - at least I know that I won't be seeing her after Friday.........  You definitely have strength and belief Minxy - and that will get you through the next round and perhaps that one will be your last !!! Perhaps you'll get a BFN - and have to leave all the other snowbabies on ice for a little while longer........ do stay in touch...... 

Laura H - yes I recognise the route you took - get a good job - mortgage - lovely relationship etc - yes we ticked all the boxes - and now society is waiting for us to tick the last one....... the baby box!!! You are so young though - don't lose hope - you've got years on most of us here - and remember IVF research and techniques are improving all the time - so that even by the time you are 30 - who knows what developments there will be.  The first IVF rates were about 5% and no drugs were used - they had done it so so many time before the first little girl was born - but they've got them up to 35% in some cases now and advances are being made all the time - higher if you are young like you - and take if from a girl who is 37 in about 3 weeks - 25 is a baby.......... I know what you mean though about some people having kids young - there was a series on TV recently talking abot the grandmothers who are 36 - that's younger than me......... and here I am not even pregnant! The good side of being 25 also - is that your eggs are so so young - did you know that a 40 year old women using the eggs of a 25 year old has the same chance as a 25 year old using her own eggs.........  your eggs are new and fresh and you have a lot to hope for and yes you may have to try IVF - but for you it could work first time......... 

LouJ - yes Zita West is brilliant - she changed my negativity into something approaching confidence - I first went to have some sessions with Jane Knight because I had a lot of anger inside of me - and I had to try and get rid of that....... she reasoned with me - when I asked "why me?" - and said that it doesn't make sense for anyone who is in this position....... I did some sessions alone and some with my DH - who has the patience of a saint to put up with me at times.......  we then went separately to the dietician - who advised us on what to eat and what to avoid - she also prescribed "pro-greens" - the swampy powder I referred to in my first posting - it's meant to increase the quantity and quality of eggs - if anyone is interested I will dig out the name of the supplier - and I know they can be bought on the web also and post it on here ........ I then started several sessions of acupuncture as did my DH - I had a drainage massage to get rid of toxins and did this form of Chinese relaxation - on how to breathe - relax - mediate and fix your posture .......... I really thank Zita West - as I found everyone there supportive and positive - and yes the sessions are not cheap - but they changed my thinking ........ and that helped me to go through with both the physical and emotional side of things........ thank you so much for all your links I will definitely explore - everyone here is so friendly understanding and non-judgemental - they understand the bad days - the down days - because they've been through them in one way or another....... there's also a cd I ordered from a company called flower essences - I think (though I will check) - and it's a meditation one where the reader speaks about preparing your womb - you have to find the time to listen to it but it's not bad..... women on amazon raved about it ......... let me know if anyone would like the name....... 

Ella - I hope you find the book enjoyable......... and useful - it's the best I have read....... so many helpful hints........ 

The good thing is that - despite all we have been through - physically - emotionally - and financially - (when I think of all the designer handbags I don't have as a result of this treatment - or the 5 star holidays - or the new wardrobes.........!!!! AGH!!) - we are lucky though - we've got great other halves - and lets face it ladies - there's not much more the world can throw at our marriage that it wouldn't survive........ surely the rollercoaster of emotions we've all been through - couldn't get any worse........ we're getting through this - each in our own way - and I know tonnes of people who popped out babies and then 2-3 years later the marriage was over........ the one thing that's come out of this for me - is how much I love my DH - and how much I need him in my life - and what's it they say - "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" - and yes we may not be the smug mummies - but at least we can be smug about our relationships......... and we deserve that........ 

There's a piece of music I listen to when I am feeling blue and it always ALWAYS makes me want to dance even on the tube - and I always ALWAYS smile when I hear it - so there are days when travelling to and from work I play it over and over - "In the mood" by Glenn Miller - it's so uplifting.......... not sure if any of you gals like 40's music ("when songs were songs and music was mucis" as my mum would say) - but this piece is just wonderful.......  

Right I will stop rabbiting on now - I've had two glasses of wine as I typed - so not sure how much sense I made - but I do hope you all have a lovely evening........... two more days to go to the weekend!!!!!  I've planned a surprise birthday party for my DH this weekend with about 15 of his friends - can't believe I have managed to keep my mouth shut - but I do intend to drink as I did in the old days - and have a few smokes (yes - I am an ex smoker - used to do about 20 a day on a bad day - gave up last May for all the good it did me - I miss them to this day - bad bad I know!!!) - so I am really looking forward to this weekend - as work has been driving me mad lately also....... 

 to you all.......... thanks so much for replying with all your histories - I know this isn't easy for any of you - and it's just so nice to have a support network like this - I look forward now to logging on here and seeing all the replies...... 

I look forward to chatting more soon..........


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Vicki13 said:


> Minxy - thanks for your kinds words and website links - yes perhaps this FET will be less stressful on my body physicially....... though coming into all this IVF / ISCI world - I did come with a lot of sceptism - that's why I went to Zita West first to have a few sessions there with the fertility nurses - because I was so so negative - I was expecting failure -the upside for me was that my reaction to the drugs was nowhere as bad as I had thought it would be......... the fact that you are getting chemical pregnancies is a good sign no - I read somewhere ages ago that the body first sees the embryo as a parasite - which it is effectively - as thoughout the 9 months - it is feeding off of us - taking our resources etc ........ which is a parasite (albeit a cute one) - and that is why a lot of women miscarry without even knowing they are pregnant - it just need to recognise that the embryo is not a parasite in the real sense of the word......... 6 frosties left is a good number to start with - you're lucky there........ and maybe medicated will make the difference this time - maybe your body this time will recognise it's seen it before - and get more used to it - afterall there are some lovely lucky ladies here who did have success with FETs..... I also work in the city - though I am SW London - and luckily for me it's a mostly male dept - though one of the girls who works for me is pregnant - her last day is Friday - and I am glad as she is really big now - and chatting about it a lot - it's her first and naturally she is excited - I think it was worse when she told me in Jan and eventhough she's got quite a bump now - at least I know that I won't be seeing her after Friday......... You definitely have strength and belief Minxy - and that will get you through the next round and perhaps that one will be your last !!! Perhaps you'll get a BFN - and have to leave all the other snowbabies on ice for a little while longer........ do stay in touch......


Hi again

Thanks for your reply (although I hope you mean I get a BFP and not a BFN  )

Whilst yes, in some ways it can be seen as a good thing that I've had early miscarriages/chemical pregnancies as "somethings" happening, unfortunately as I've had not one but 4 recurrent mc/chem pg's this isn't such a good thing (and despite me conceiving with no problems 18 years ago, although sadly I didn't keep it for reasons I won't go into here).

When you mention about seeing an embie as a "parasite", naturally, in women, our bodies shouldn't do this otherwise humankind would've died out a long time ago....our bodies have something called Anti Nuclear Antibodies which should prevent this.... it's actually that in some women, the body sees the embryo as a foreign body (as ANAs not working properly) and attacks it....this is when a woman has raised Natural Killer Cells....which I do. I also have several blood clotting disorders which were diagnosed following 2 naturally conceived pgs several years ago (and prescribed meds through treatment for all of this)....and our private consultant believes DP & me should have even more tests with a view to having much stronger immune treatment (IVIG) .....as well as that I have severe endo & adhesions, septate/bicornuate uterus and at several times over the years have had uterine adhesions, polyps & fibroid removed....so I'm not really a straight forward case. 

I too work in a primarily male environment (IT) but the guys still all chat about their children and pregnant wives/girlfriends, especially as they're mostly quite young and several have just had babies and several others have pg partners....so even at work it's hard sometimes to get away from it......and whilst we have amazing friends, we're now the only couple who don't have children (or aren't pg) and as we've been ttc alot longer than most (and same time as some others who are now on their 3rd!), it does get hard and sometimes feels that DP and me are isolating ourselves from friends get togethers, well, I know I certainly do sometimes as I just can't face it.

However, as you say, I am a positive person....if I didn't still keep believing it will happen after so many IVF/FETs and so many years ttc, we'd have given up a long time ago that's for sure as emotionally and physically it's very tiring.

Anyway, wishing you lots of luck
Natasha


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## sparklystar (May 22, 2008)

hello girlies
i have been reading all your messages and just wanted to say it has cheered me up as i can relate to so much of what you have all said about the heartache of going though treatments and feeling very alone at times and especially that everyone thinks it must be all your fault for not having the good luck to find a husband/establish your career/start a family before you are 25 (even though loads of your friends in thier 30's or 40's seem to be having babies quite easliy) - anyway its nice to know im not the only one out there so big  to you all. 
can soemone tell me who is zita west? 
i also read a book recently called 'conquering infertility' by alice domar which i would recommend as it is very positive about ways of coping with all the stress of fertility treatments. it took me a year to pick up any book with anything to do with the word 'infertility' in the title in case it told me just to accept it and move on, but i really did find it helpful (although i still hate that word). 
sending good luck to you all   xxx


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## Vicki13 (May 26, 2008)

Hi Minxy 

SOOOOOOOOOO sorry yes I did mean a BFP - such a stupid slip on my behalf (am not wholly up to all the anagrams here - I really apologise) ......... maybe drinking the vino didn't help - and yes we do have the anti-bodies you refer to - the article I read spoke about the body having to recognise that the embie is not malignant......... the cells you refer to - do they know what raises them - I assume it's a natural occurence and you seem to be in good hands for medication etc?  You probably know this already - but artifical sweetners such as aspartame - are not good - neither is caffeine - have a diet low in sugar and make sure you are stocked up on Vitamin C and E -  have you ever been advised to detox?? 
A friend of my husband had a similar problem to you - and I know that she went through IVF many many times - in France - and eventually had a beautiful baby girl aged 41 - so don't give up - this is an area where constant improvements are being made.........  I agree with work chat - before it just bored me - now it's a case of putting on a brave face - smiling - cracking jokes and trying not to show my real feelings.........  Do stay positive - I know easier said than done sometimes........ with IVF you just never know...... there's no telling the cycle which will bring success - that's what I cling to - when they put our 2 day 5 Blasts back - the doctor said there was a 70% chance of success - given the issues were mostly with my DH - but then just a chemical pg.......... so you never know.......... 

Sparklystar (what a great name!) - Zita West started as a mid-wife and after 1 of her kids suffered several post-natal depression - realising what little support was out there she set up her own clinic - she just doesn't treat the cause - she looks at a couple holistically - to see if there is anything else wrong - Kate Winslett and Davina McCall (plus lots of other "celebs") - used her while pregnant.......... her book is really great - worth a read..........


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Vicki13 said:


> Hi Minxy
> 
> SOOOOOOOOOO sorry yes I did mean a BFP - such a stupid slip on my behalf (am not wholly up to all the anagrams here - I really apologise) ......... maybe drinking the vino didn't help - and yes we do have the anti-bodies you refer to - the article I read spoke about the body having to recognise that the embie is not malignant......... the cells you refer to - do they know what raises them - I assume it's a natural occurence and you seem to be in good hands for medication etc? You probably know this already - but artifical sweetners such as aspartame - are not good - neither is caffeine - have a diet low in sugar and make sure you are stocked up on Vitamin C and E - have you ever been advised to detox??
> A friend of my husband had a similar problem to you - and I know that she went through IVF many many times - in France - and eventually had a beautiful baby girl aged 41 - so don't give up - this is an area where constant improvements are being made......... I agree with work chat - before it just bored me - now it's a case of putting on a brave face - smiling - cracking jokes and trying not to show my real feelings......... Do stay positive - I know easier said than done sometimes........ with IVF you just never know...... there's no telling the cycle which will bring success - that's what I cling to - when they put our 2 day 5 Blasts back - the doctor said there was a 70% chance of success - given the issues were mostly with my DH - but then just a chemical pg.......... so you never know..........


Hey, no need to apologise, I knew you meant BFP not BFN  

As for diet, detox, caffeine, aspartame etc etc.....yep, unfortunately/fortunately (??) after 5 years of ttc I think I'm pretty clued up on the do's and dont's and have, at times, become pretty obsessive with it but have relaxed a little more over the years. I still try to have as healthy balanced diet as possible with lots of organic but I don't deny myself things as much as I used to......got to find that balance. Vitamin C is good but you shouldn't overdo it because it may hinder production of progesterone. Vitamin E is definitely good, especially for promoting healthy eggs. Zinc is also good for eggs....and sperm ! Selenium is good for sperm & healthy womb lining......the Marilyn Glenville book I mentioned in previous post to you lists lots of vitamins and minerals that are beneficial for sperm and eggs. Oh, and protein is great for healthy eggs so I've always ensured a diet high in that whilst going through treatment (and take wheatgrass, spirulina and chlorella supplements as these not only have lots of other goodies but also very high protein levels). I also take a spoonful of Apimist every day from before starting treatment and right the way through...its a "special" honey that contains royal jelly, bee pollen and bee propolis.

I've also had regular acupuncture & reflexology for years (although not had acu since our IVF back in October last year and didn't bother having it through our more recent one this year but I may pick it up again).....I've been seriously thinking about oesteopathy instead of acupuncture as another form of complementary therapy to try......and I've even considered colonic irrigation for detox purposes but haven't quite got up the nerve yet to go and get a tube stuck up my bum  

You may be interested in the Complementary Therapies board as well as Prenatal Care boards as there's lots of useful information on both 

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=20.0

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=14.0

Anyway, feel free to PM me if you wanna chat.... 

Lots of luck to you
Natasha


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