# Can I join you? And get some advice?



## drownedgirl (Nov 12, 2006)

just joined today. Am 41, have a DS, almost 4. Have been TTC no 2 since Autumn 04. Have got pg and mc'd six times, plus two chemical pgs. I get pg easily, but they enver stick. I do have a clotting problem (Treated with heparin) .. all other mc tests are normal. The 5th embryo was tested, aneuploid. 

FSH when last tested was about 11. 

I was beginning to get my head round giving up with the try for no 2, as IVF even with PGS would not work if I didn't respond well, and I have something of a medical phobia, so wouldn't want to embark if the chances were poor.

But somehow I stumbled on the idea of IVF with DE, abroad, and have been in touch with CERAM. I actually have more of a problem with the idea of the IVF itself, than the DE aspect.

Has anyone got any thoughts for me?


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## safarigirl (Feb 23, 2005)

Hi Drownedgirl and welcome to our thread - i am sure you will get lots of info and support here.  I am also a Ceram person - i had never done ivf before going for DE (had 3 miscarriages and then turned to DE)  So i'm not sure about all the details about ivf but using a donor and doing ivf is pretty straightforward - some medication to time your cycle, build your lining before egg transfer, and then some drugs post egg transfer (which your body would have been doing normally)  So its pretty straigthforward and easy - i'm not sure if this is what you mean by your question, about your problem with ivf e.g. is it difficult, taxing on the body etc, i would imagine straight ivf is, but i didnt find divf (well apart from the emotional feelings) that difficult.  However if you have a medical phobia this might be differnet.  I did find working with the team at ceram really easy and they really talked me through all the medical stuff and made it as easy as they could.
I'm not sure if i've answered your question!  - but i'm sure you'll get some more replies.
Anyway welcome again to our thread .....


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## alanelaine (Sep 10, 2005)

Drownedgirl,

Read our post on the clinic reviews at the top of the overseas thread.

We went to CERAM and then to Altra Vita in Moscow; at AV they discovered the cause of our "unexplained infertility" and have prescribed corrective treatment which is to be carried out here.

Perhaps you would like to think about this as an alternative to IVF/DE.

A&E


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

HI Drownedgirl,

I empathise with your concerns.  IVF can seem such a daunting process in your home country, never mind contemplating going abroad!!

To try to give you my perspective, I was terrifed of IVF too.  However, I did manage 4 cycles using my own eggs (all failed and one early m/c) but the thing I dreaded most (and found the worst) was the egg retrieval.

To be honest, I found the whole emotional aspect of IVF alot worse than the physical side, although the physical side is of course, draining too.  

This year, (after having 4 failed cycles of immunology tx for natural killer cells) we decided to think about another option, using donor eggs from Spain.  This meant I had to have injections, patches and pessaries, but no egg retrieval (always a bonus!!) as the donor obviously does this part.  The clinic we went to (IVIB), we found to be so professional, clean and empathic and most of all POSITIVE from the word go.  

And here we are now, after 5 failed IUIs, 4 failed IVFs, one miscarriage, 4 failed cycles of treatment for Natural Killer cells - pregnant at 14 weeks!  (and that was after deciding to follow the Spanish clinic's advice NOT to take any treatment for NKCs!!)

The whole process was alot less complicated than I anticipated.  After contacting the clinic initially by e-mail, they e-mailed me back a consultation date along with some blood tests to get done at our GP in the UK.  Once we'd gone over to see them, they gave us the drugs we'd need and they e-mailed instructions regularly.  The communication was fantastic.  Theyd call and e-mail me regularly with clear instructions on when to stop/start drugs and get scans done.    We got all our scans and blood test done at the Glasgow Nuffield, who faxed the results to IVI Barcelona and then we got 36 hours notice to book hotels/flights, then flew out for 5 days for the transfer.

It was all so surreal but so fantastic and even if treatment had been unsuccessful, I wouldn't have hesitated to recommend this clinic.

I hope this helps a bit, it all seems so far-reaching and complicated at first doesn't it?
Feel free to pm me if you need any more
All my love
Gill xo


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## drownedgirl (Nov 12, 2006)

Thank you for the welcome and advice.

I feel quite excited that there is actually something I can do. Having continuous miscarriages leaves you feeling very helpless  and not able to see a way forward.

I suggested the idea of donor eggs to DP, and he was quite positive. I have mailed CERAM. They did say the wait for blue eyed donors is a year. Of course, now I have this plan, i want to do it IMMEDIATELY, lol.

One thing i will do is to book privately for NKC testing, which is the only test re recurrent mc that I haven't had. I am also awaiting karyotyping of my 6th mc, plus a repeat of CD2 and CD 21 bloods, so with all of that info, I can be fairly sure if it's my eggs/age that are causing the problem now.

One thing I hope someone can advise on.

The CERAM form asks for CMV and antibody tests, early on. What are these? Could my GP arrange them for me, if I asked nicely?

Also, i don't have a fertility doctor at all. Just a haematologist. Will I need to find one for prescribing drugs etc, if I don't go to CERAM at the start... any ideas fot a good one?

Thanks.

x


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## drownedgirl (Nov 12, 2006)

alanelaine said:


> Read our post on the clinic reviews at the top of the overseas thread.
> 
> We went to CERAM and then to Altra Vita in Moscow; at AV they discovered the cause of our "unexplained infertility" and have prescribed corrective treatment which is to be carried out here.
> 
> ...


Thanks.. I am not so good at finding my way around so couldn't locate the post you mention... I'm not sure whether I have any unexplained problem, or whether it's just my age. I do get pg easily, but I always miscarry. I have been checked out by two hospitals, one of which was St Marys. I am prescribed heparin and aspirin anyway, as I had a DVT while pregnant with my son, and have been dx with antiphospolipid[id antibody syndrome and low Protein S. Apart from getting NKC testing and trying steroids, there is not much else on offer for recurrent miscarriage.

But since my 5th embryo definitely has too many chromosomes, i am expecting the same with the 6th. If so, this is my age. DP and I have been karyotyped and all was OK.


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## alanelaine (Sep 10, 2005)

The thread is

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=68614.0

We are not necessarily saying that everything overseas is better but..........................................

they do seem to be more structured.

One example. I've had 3 hysteroscopies; 2 in the UK (1 private, 1 NHS) and one in Moscow. In the UK I took a number, was given an appointment and turned up. In Moscow I was told to have the procedure at a specific time in my cycle. In the UK a fibroid was detected but not thought serious; in Moscow they spotted its performance at the height of my cycle and advised that I had virtually no chance of becoming pregnant and have to have it removed.

If I think about it I have wasted many thousands of pounds as a consequence of the UK approach to fertility. Fortunately we prefer to look on the positive.

I hope you get a flavour of our view, but you must choose what is right for you.

A&E


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## drownedgirl (Nov 12, 2006)

alanelaine said:


> I hope you get a flavour of our view, but you must choose what is right for you.


So what you're saying, is that before trying IVF/DE, a clinic abroad might be able to see and fix other problems?


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## alanelaine (Sep 10, 2005)

Your question is quite a broad one.

CERAM has a long waiting list, others in Spain have shorter lists but cost twice as much (often more) such as IVI, IM, etc.

We were originally with CERAM but changed to Altra Vita as they publish their list of donors online and at £2,750 for the full DE IVF are quite reasonably priced. There is virtually no waiting list for blue eyes.

http://www.altravita.ru/catalog-o.html

The facilities at AV are the best we've seen either here or abroad. Diagnostics helped fellow FFer Mitch after years of failure as well as identifying our difficulties. We are impressed.

If you were thinking of going to Moscow (and it's a bit of a leap, we know) then you should go for the pre-treatment consultation. Whatever and where ever you decide to go you should do this - you will see the clinic, meet the staff and get a feel for the region in a 2 day visit.

We went to CERAM for the consultation but, whilst they spotted our problem they relied on our UK treatment notes - we make no judgement as there was no reason for them to doubt these; however, AV have taken diagnostics to a different level.

In your case you may be better finding out what is going wrong before jumping straight to DE.

That said, if your difficulties are purely related to your genetics, age, etc. then there is no reason why you shouldn't take that step.

Has that helped or hindered?

A&E

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.UK or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## drownedgirl (Nov 12, 2006)

alanelaine said:


> Has that helped or hindered


Helped, thanks! I ppsted a new question about the pros and cons of different countries...


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## drownedgirl (Nov 12, 2006)

The CERAM form asks for CMV and antibody tests, early on. What are these? Could my GP arrange them for me, if I asked nicely?

Also, i don't have a fertility doctor at all. Just a haematologist. Will I need to find one in the UK  for prescribing drugs etc??


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## alanelaine (Sep 10, 2005)

drownedgirl said:


> The CERAM form asks for CMV and antibody tests, early on. What are these? Could my GP arrange them for me, if I asked nicely?
> 
> Also, i don't have a fertility doctor at all. Just a haematologist. Will I need to find one in the UK for prescribing drugs etc??


Simple blood tests; your GP will arrange them.

You will need to find a local clinic for ultrasound scans but your GP will be able to prescribe drugs. As a rule of thumb you can get drugs from your overseas clinic if you go for the consultation (either prescribed or from an overseas pharmacist) but you probably won't be prescribed drugs if you've not seen them as this is illegal in EU.


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