# TTC at 39 with older partner



## hopingforutopia (Nov 16, 2015)

Hi All!

Okay I am not quite 40 and as for infertility, who knows just yet but this seemed like the most appropriate forum...

I would just like a little bit of reassurance before I go completely bonkers! I am 39 (and a half - if that matters?!) and due to life circumstances (see the ex leaving me after over 8 years for another woman - long story) find myself with a new partner. I had already been extremely conscious of my age before the ex departed and therefore had started fertility testing via the NHS with my GP. The ex left and, well, I went ahead with the testing anyway. So the results in April this year were as follows: Day 3 - LH: 5.2; FSH: 5.7; Oestradiol: 177 pg/ml. My GP tells me this is pretty much okay?! I have since had an ultrasound as I was worried about cysts but all is clear.

So considering my age and the age of my partner (54 - yes I went for a mature, understanding one this time) what are the chances of conceiving? Give it to me straight as I am really losing all hope.

Thanks!
N


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## bombsh3ll (Apr 19, 2012)

Hi hopingforutopia,

Your numbers are fine and if you are having regular periods & no reason to suspect tubal probs (STI/previous abdo/pelvic surgery/endo) or male factor (sneaky vasectomy/unsuccessful ttc with prev partners) then it doesn't sound like you have anything to worry about. 

A tubal assessment probably wouldn't be done on the NHS unless you'd been trying for a certain length of time (at your age I think it'd be 6m) or had reason to suspect a problem. 

What you could do through your GP for no cost now is have your partner submit a sample for semen analysis. Men's age isn't generally an issue but it doesn't hurt to rule out an undiagnosed male factor problem. 

Wishing you good luck,

B xxx


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## Rabbit100 (Oct 26, 2010)

Hi Hoping for utopia,

I don't know anything about your numbers but looks like you have that's reassurance already from Bombsh3ll, just wanted to say it can happen at 39.  I got pregnant naturally with my little boy at the age of 39, albeit you will see from my signature I had a bit of a journey to get there, but it happened & am currently pregnant naturally again at 41 (not out of the risky miscarriage zone on this one yet tho). I have another friend who her and her husband started trying when she was 38/39 and she got pregnant within a 2-3 months.

So just wanted to say it can happen for you. I would try and focus on both of you eating as healthily as possible and taking good prenatal supplements (your partner too, there are some good ones for men out there too). Plus at this stage try and stay as positive and relaxed as you possibly can that this can happen for you

Good luck
Rx


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Hi HopingforUtopia,

snap! I am 39 and my DH is 54! We have been ttc for a year now with one round of unsuccessful IVF. But I remain positive. It will happen!! 

I would say that when you get to our age, every woman is different. Some will get pregnant easily whilst others like me, will face more challenges. Are you ready to start ttc straight away or is the relationship so new you need a bit more time? 

I would also say that there are other things you can check apart from your hormones. My hormones were all perfect and in fact my FSH is only 3.5 - but that's not the full story. I think the thing we need to be concerned about at our age is egg quality. You can be ovulating regularly but not be producing eggs that can create viable embryos. As we age, more and more of our eggs become chromosomaly abnormal which increases the chances of miscarriage. 

But the good news is there are things you can do. Firstly, I would get an AMH blood test (not available on the NHS) which will tell you your approximate egg reserve and that will give you an indication of how much time you have and how easy you might find ttc. Secondly, I would look into taking some supplements, specifically CoQ10 in the ubiquinol form which can do wonders for egg quality. 

But like I said, everyone is different! So hopefully you will still have squillions of golden jelly eggs and will get pregnant when you want to with ease. 

Best of Luck!


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## Irish Dee (Jan 30, 2008)

Hii,


My DH was 56 and I was 40 when we had our daughter. Don't lose hope!!


Dee


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## miamiamo (Aug 9, 2015)

My friend got pregnant when she was 30, her husband 60, ds is 7 now.


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## hopingforutopia (Nov 16, 2015)

Dear All

Thanks for the positive messages of encouragement.  I opted for further private testing and got the following results: 
FSH: 4.1
LH: 5.0
AMH: 26.66
AFC: 21
Everything else seems okay in/down there. 

The consultant seemed to be saying that the above is good?


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## hopingforutopia (Nov 16, 2015)

ClaudiaH, snap indeed!    How are things going for you?

I'm currently taking Pregnacare, evening primrose, royal jelly and COQ10.  Anything else I should be taking? 
Thanks!


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

Hi all

I am 38.5 and my partner is 61! With a less than ideal sperm count and morphology.

We have had 3 unsuccessful IVF attempts with ICSI - seems mostly it is an egg quality issue at this stage - egg numbers retrieved are good but the drop off is significant and of 10 eggs I'm only ending up with 2 blastocytes suitable for transfer.

Anyway its nice to know there is someone else out there that is  trying to conceive with a much older partner!

My doctor has got me taking DHEA to try to improve my egg quality.  I am having a break over x-mas and new year and back to it next year. I am expecting it will take me a lot longer to conceive than other ladies in my age group due to the higher probability of us combining low quality eggs with low quality sperm.  So for us I think its going to be numbers game, we just need to do it over and over again and try not to get too disheartened- which is draining and stressful!!


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

HopingforUtopia - Wow! I would literally kill for an AMH like yours. mine is just 6.4 which is pretty dismal. Although my FSH was much better at 3.5 but FSH is very unreliable - and my antral follicle count was also a little better at 15. I'm having all my bloods re -done tomorrow so we'll see if they have changed in the last 9 months. 

I'd say you look great and should have a relatively easy time of it. Although I am obviously not a doctor! 

I am taking CoQ10, DHA, Vitamin D and E and Pregnacare. I heard Royal Jelly is in fact not so good for you, so I stopped it. I am also thinking about taking DHEA, but with an AMH like yours, you wouldn't need that. 

are you ttc yet or still waiting a little longer? 

happy christmas!


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## Pnee (Jul 18, 2014)

Hello there, my DH is 59 and we had a successful cycle this year - see my signature!  Took all the supplements mentioned by Claudia H and 75mg DHEA daily for 2 months before treatment - which seems to have helped. Your partner can also take  supplement such as Proxeed plus to enhance his swimmers.  Good luck!


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

Hi Ladies, 
An update on my journey.  Seems to be taking a turn that doesn't seem to be very common. My biggest issue is my fragile eggs! No one really knows why they are fragile, other than perhaps my age. But it is very uncommon.  And the only real solution is to use conventional IVF. But naturally that's very difficult with DH's sperm!  It does make you feel like giving up when you have all these negative factors weighed against you.  However we are unconventional at the best of times, so I guess why should our IVF attempts be any different!  

Lucky for me I have an FE that is prepared to try unconventional stuff and has agreed that we should try freezing enough sperm samples so we can try to do an IVF round with conventional IVF and see how that goes. Failing that I have to go to donar sperm or continue to do ICSI with a high breakage rate.  So frustrating!!!!  I have just started taking 2 mg of melatonin daily also. The DHEA hasn't appeared to help me and my FSH increased from 10 to 14 after 5 months on it.  So that's disappointing, but I'm going to keep taking it because it doesn't seem to have made anything worse either and I'm not having any side effects. 

I am very reluctant to use donar sperm so will keep trying all other available options for as long as it seems reasonable.  Being 39 next month the time pressure is getting exponentially worse so the FE has also agreed that I should start back-to -back stim cycles. He is a great surgeon and I get no bleeding or pain after EPU. So I don't see any reason to have a break in between. Helps us ramp things up to see if we can figure out a way around my egg fragility problem.  His sucess with women over 40 is 60% per cycle at the moment!! Crazy good!! So I know it's not the FE and clinic. It's me that's the problem! Seems me and DH have imcompatible fertility problems.  He needs ICSI, I need conventional IVF!  I am racking my brain to figure out what I can do to improve the strength of my eggs. And it's the cytoplasm that's collapsing, not the exterior shell. So it's all quite odd.  

I'm on a heap of supplements now too as I was low on Vit D, so I will see if that helps.  Starting to feel like a 1 person science experiment.  Won't mind so much if it all pays off in the end!  But there are no guarantees of that so its very difficult. 

If anyone has any tips re: the fragile eggs, would appreciate any input you can offer. 
FE is thinking about changing me from Gonal-F to Menopur to see if that helps.  And we are also discussing using HGH, but FE wants to try the Melatonin first.  See what happens.  Wondering if I'm ever going to get there or just torturing myself for the sake of it! It's hard to stay positive when you have such an uncommon problem!!!


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## KLconfused (Jan 2, 2010)

Free fall.  It does sound complicated but sounds like you have a great clinic. 

I can't help with the fragile eggs but just wanted to say don't be too against donor sperm. I was and I had no issues so we spent years trying to use husbands rubbish sperm. The treatment changes you inside and out. We came to a point where I was 41 when we realised my eggs had got poor quality and we couldn't face anymore ivf with them even with donor sperm because of the emotional and financial trauma. So we had to move to double donor.  It sounds selfish and obviously I'm sure I will love this baby when it arrives but if I had my time again I would have been more considerate about how long I would have viable eggs. I think I took them for granted because I had no issues and a family history of accidental pregnancies in late 40s. I wouldn't wish that on anyone as it's made for a very difficult journey. I have a light at the end of the tunnel now but a completely different tunnel than I thought I'd ever go down. I'm not meaning to scare monger. Just your eggs won't last forever so keep it in mind. Hope that's not too upsetting but I wish someone had told me that 7 years ago!


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

Thanks for your reply KLC
Yes I am uncomfortably aware that my egg quality will continue deteriorate the longer I spend doing unsucessful cycles.  So if the next cycle doesn't go well I have to think very seriously about the DS option. Particularly as things are not going well with the sperm collection to date.  

Because the sperm collection is not going well and looks like I'm stuck with ICSI again this cycle we are giving Menopur a try instead of the Gonal-F to see if that helps with the fragility of my eggs.  

I did discuss using a technique called 'Susie ??' with my embryologist today, but she told me that it's usually not very successful and they have moved away from that technique over the years.  However she has told me that if they do attempt conventional IVF with some of the eggs from my next cycle they will try to increase the chance of fertilisation by cutting away some of the cumulus cells in order to help increase the likelyhood of the sperm being able to penetrate through the cumulus to the egg cytoplasm.  

Anyway I feel like now I am doing back to back cycles I can probably handle doing this cycle now and then another in April in order to really evaluate whether I have any real chance of conceiving with DH sperm, or its just never going to happen because our problems are so antagonistic to each other. 

As far as emotional stress goes I seem to have hit a sort of zone where I'm not really expecting any positive outcomes, ever, which in a weird way has made me more calm about the whole thing, even though it's hard and scary at the same time.  But it's nice to feel calm and stable, albeit a little sad at times.


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## hopingforutopia (Nov 16, 2015)

Hi all

Hope everyone is doing well?  Well it's been a while since I've posted.  Life has just taken over but the TTC has continued.  I think we had a chemical pregnancy in March - all the signs but then very late period which lasted 10 days.  My OH is based in another country so our timings have to be near enough spot on.  Currently taking maca, COQ10 and agnus castus as well as other vitamins. 

I'm now 40 and feel that time is really running out


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

Hi Hoping for Utopia,

I know how you feel. It sux having the age bomb ticking away as we persist with what seems like a never ending journey ...to hell...! 

Anyway after finally deciding to to my 7th!!! Yes 7th stim cycle!  ALL donor but 1/2 ICSI 1/2 IVF to try to find out if my eggs really are intolerant to ICSI or if perhaps we really do have a sperm problem as my last cycle seems to indicate I go and develop 2 dominant follicles that suppress all my other eggs!!! WTF! So now I have to have a crack at a back to back cycle in November - sigh. 

Anyway at least in the last month or so I have come to be more accepting of the totally unpredictable nature of IVF and find myself at least able to think about something other than IVF - which is a great relief as I really dont want to be consumed by it anymore. Its too draining.  

Meanwhile...seems everyone I know seems to be getting pregnant - 3 girls from work who I am very close to and my brothers partner who is 40!!!! Talk about having my face rubbed in it!!  And what is worse is that my brothers partner was doing IVF when she was 38 in order to freeze some eggs as she didn't have a partner at that time. And she only ever developed 2 follicles, so they told her not to waste her time!! But here she is at 40 getting pregant on her first natural attempt!!! And I have a pretty good eggs numbers during IVF and I can't even get a blip of a pregnancy. So frustrating. Guess thats the downside of having an older partner with poor sperm parameters...!  Would be nice to be able to think that natural conception was at least possible......

I have even quit my job to reduce the amount of stress that I'm under, in the hope that will help.  Something was better in my last cycle, so i just have to hope for more of those....

Anyway the journey continues.....

Good luck to everyone else


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## hopingforutopia (Nov 16, 2015)

Hi Freefall

Sorry that you're having such a crappy time.  Yes, it seems that everyone is having babies at the moment at whatever age. I spent some time with my 4 year old niece at the weekend and whilst she is absolutely adorable, she is a reminder of what I don't have.  We think I had a mc in March this year so that is providing some (little) consolation.

Has your OH had children before?


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

Yep he has 3 grown children... so doesnt have the same need for kids that I do... which makes it even more stressful to be honest because he just can't relate to how I feel going through all of this ivf stuff. But Im getting more and more used to it now so at least its just part of my life rather than my whole life these days. 

The Doctor i spoke to yesterday basically said that sperm.from older men is more fragmented so the older eggs have a harder time compensating for sperm DNA errors whilst younger sperm has less errors to correct - generally - and so older eggs dont get exhausted as easily. So even though my partners DNA assessment was quite good its not as amazing as a young mans so might just be putting more stress on my eggs.

Anyway sounds like you guys at least have the natural conception option - so thats something to be grateful for. Hopefully the next one sticks for you 🙂


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Hi Freefall - that is very interesting about the sperm from older men. My DH just turned 55 - and today is actually my 40th birthday (gulp - never thought I would be 40 and childless...). His normal sperm assessments have always come back fine. We haven't done the DNA Frag test as the doctor said he really didn't think that was our problem and we often get 100% fertilization. But if we end up doing another fresh cycle (that would be my 5th) I think we'll get it done. 

My DH takes Proxeed twice a day which is supposed to be really good for new sperm. No idea if it helps with DNA frag though! 

Best of luck with your next cycle in November. Lucky 7!!!! (you are a trooper) xx


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

Thanks Hoping for Uptopia,
Yes, either I am a Trooper, stubborn, or just plain crazy ..if I wasn't crazy before I certainly am now!! 

So from all the reading and consideration of all the anecdotal information I have come across (from spending way too much time on forums) this is the position I have come to regarding the older partner thing...and try to keep in mind that people like you and I (who have very large age gaps in our relationship) only make up about 1% of the entire population at large (massive minority)....so in reality the research that has been done on girls our age are essentially done on couples without large age gaps....so whilst the women in the studies are often older generally the men they are partnered with are of similar age or lessor age and therefore the older partner variable seems to be missing in these studies....in my opinion. And I am just giving my opinion here.....

Anyway from what I understand when DNA fragmentation is below 30% the IVF REs consider this to be 'normal' in so far as when they are doing IVF for couples where MF is the main problem generally they can get still get good embryos using sperm with this level of fragmentation. However, what one of the specialist I have been talking to tells me is that whilst that may be true for young couples when you are talking older couples, and therefore older eggs, the eggs are less capable of repairing sperm DNA fragmentation than younger eggs are. So, if you put poor sperm with a young egg, you will most likely get a better outcome than the when using the same sperm with an older egg. And similarly if you put high quality sperm with older eggs you are more likely to get better quality embryos than with the old egg-old sperm (tired egg - fragmented sperm) combination (like us). And certainly from what I have seen on the forums those older ladies that are doing cycles with DS or with younger partners do certainly seems to me to be having more success than we are - despite us having pretty good/similar AMH, FSH (for our age) to them. Honestly my RE has been scratching his head about me for the last 12 months as he can't believe I haven't had success given my parameters etc etc. .....so naturally 'poor quality eggs' is the reason I have been given for my recurrent failures....however another specialist i did a skype consult with in USA told me my eggs were poor quality because i was over stimulated and that i'm 'too good' to try using growth hormone......so everyone has an opinion!

And right up until after my last cycle, EVERYONE (my doctor, scientists etc etc) were all telling me, 'its not the sperm, it can't be the sperm, its not the sperm'...blah blah blah...but because I wasn't ready to give up and because I just couldn't get my head around everything that was happening I decided 'well I've got nothing to lose' by doing a 1/2 donor 1/2 partner cycle to help me come to terms with the fact that I was being told I needed donor eggs/embryos....I was REALLY struggling to accept that opinion having seen on the forums how many 40 - 41 y/o ladies with young partners or DS were getting pregnant, both naturally and with IVF, with parameters really not drastically superior/different to mine, or yours for that matter. So I did the 1/2 1/2 cycle knowing that it was supposed to validate everyone else's opinion (my eggs are crap) but low and behold it was the opposite!!!If anything it validated my underlying doubts about what I was being told!! I got 3 good embryos from 5 eggs fertilized with DS and 1 crap embryo from 4 eggs fertilized with from my partners sperm (100% fertilization all eggs from the same cycle). And boom, everyone is as shocked as I am and suddenly now they are all telling me, 'oh, actually, maybe it is the sperm'!!! That just proved to me that basically no one really knows anything and we are just all stabbing around in the dark doing the best we can to 'control' the outcome!

So with that in mind I set about doing a bit more digging into the whole sperm thing since that cycle didn't match up with what I have been told for the last 12 months i.e that 17% sperm fragmentation was fine and that sperm count doesn't matter because of ICSI blah blah blah...and yet the last cycle really just seemed to fly in the face of all of that information....Anyway long story short I ended up finding this article that had studied the correlation between embryo quality and sperm DNA fragmentation levels. What they found was that frag levels above 10% they noticed a significant reduction in resulting embryo quality. Whilst those below 10% frag generally the embryo quality was not affected. So whilst 17% frag might be fine and dandy for a 25 y/o egg it doesn't appear to be so good for a 40y/o egg. But the same token a crappy old 40 y/o eggs seems to be able to process the 25 y/o DS sperm much better because generally young sperm is well below 10% frag (5 - 6 % for example). As men age their fragmentation levels seem to increase......so even though its 'normal' for their age eggs our age simply do not have the amount of energy required to fix that level of fragmentation as well as develop a high quality embryo....

...having put myself through all of this and having tried to understand as much as one can about something that ultimately no one really understands I think that rather than trying to blame the egg or the sperm in MY opinion it really is more of a matter that it really  does 'take two to tango' and sometimes some couples just can't tango together.....because the combination just doesn't work...and that is just how it is....yes, we might eventually get lucky getting the one good egg to combine with the one low frag sperm, but there is no way of selecting for this artificially. I think there is better chance of achieving this combination if you don't need ICSI because with conventional IVF the sperm are self selecting and the less fragmented sperm are more likely to be the ones who are strong enough to naturally fertilize an egg....so if I could avoid ICSI I would do that. but I can't with my partners sperm. I think you can, so you are lucky to have that option.

Anyway that is where I have gotten too...I could be totally wrong and if you do get the DNA frag test you might find out that your partner has a below 10% outcome and then everything I have just said will be totally irrelevant to your situation. Or better yet your next cycle might be the one that works and you can save yourself anymore pain having to think about it! I also genuinely believe that being relaxed and less stressed out gives better cycle outcomes......so hopefully this helps you feel less like its all about you and your eggs and more about the two of you as a team....maybe it won't help you at all....

But its the best explanation I have been able to put together to give myself some way of coming to terms with all unexpected results I have experienced over the last 18mths. I'm just trying to get used to the fact that this whole IVF thing is very unpredictable and for girls like you and I more like a high stakes game of Russian Roulette. I'm just trying to get used to the highs and the lows that come with high stake gambling.....

In terms of trying to improve your partners DNA fragmentation and your egg quality g take antioxidants - CoQ10 for you and Ubiqunol for him - both 300mg/day. He needs this more superior form of the CoQ10 (ubiqunol) because over 50's have more problems converting CoQ10 into its active form than sub 50s. so you can take the normal one and he needs to use the higher quality one - his one will be considerably more expensive . And only buy the practitioner only brands - they are expensive but they are more effective - you can get them from a naturopath or from a phamarcy that stocks practitioner only brands.

I have also been taking DHEA and it certainly hasn't made my cycles any worse....so that is something you can also consider doing if you are not already.....

good luck to both of us for the next spin of the wheel!
xx


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## hopingforutopia (Nov 16, 2015)

Wow, thanks Freefall for all the info.

I think we are all stubborn AND crazy!  

We haven't had his sperm tested yet but all my tests last year were more than positive for someone of my age.  Yes, Claudia, I too never thought I would get to this age and not have children but sometimes life doesn't follow a "plan" and to be honest, I would be bored and/or underwhelmed if it did.

I'm taking the COQ10 but as yet not DHEA as the tests last year revealed that I have an average egg reserve (21 counted).  I do take every other supplement known to (wo)man though.

My situation is exacerbated slightly as OH lives in another country so timing is of the essence and I seem to have botched that up this month :-(.  I had a longer cycle which means that I ovulated later which means our planning went out of the window.  Out for this month/cycle so fingers crossed for the next one.

Good luck to all indeed x


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

Hi again Ladies,

Sorry I mixed up the forum names in my last post - my story is more relevant to Claudia than HFU - so apologies again for the mix up and any confusion I have created!!  

Hoping for Utopia, why don't you just have your partner freeze some sperm for you to use when he is overseas? .....or are you trying to get pregnant naturally?  With an antral count of 21 you certainly don't need anything to increase your egg numbers! you are really lucky to have such good ovarian reserve!  Also my brother partner was only producing 2 follicles in response to FSH stims to freeze eggs, so they abandoned IVF/egg freezing and then got pregnant naturally on their first go at 40 using ovulation sticks - so maybe you could try those if you want to make sure you know exactly when you are ovulating - I believe its very similar to a pregnancy test stick....


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## hopingforutopia (Nov 16, 2015)

I did wonder re the name mix up?!  Either way, it's still relevant. My partner has just turned 55 (I'm 40.5) and I'm concerned about the quality of both eggs/sperm.  We would prefer to conceive naturally, somehow the insertion of frozen sperm doesn't have the same arousal effect on me as him being there in person?!  We shall try for a little longer and see how it goes.  I'm hoping that my reserve hasn't dwindled in the past year and am doing everything possible to ensure my health/fertility is as good as it can be.  I think we should just get his swimmers tested to ensure that things are all okay there.  I'm trying not to obsess about it as stress obviously isn't a great thing to add into the equation but a bit difficult when you think that time is of the essence.  

I've been charting/using OPKs for a good few months now and I seem to ovulate a different times.  I will just have to persevere and get him to take longer holidays so he can visit!


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Freefall  - thank you for sharing all of that! If we do another fresh cycle we will deg get the frag test done. 

I've been taking CoQ10 for over a year now. My doctor told me that in the study that showed it worked they did 600mg a day - but didn't say if it was Ubiquinol or Ubiquinone. So i just go with 600mg Ubiquinol to be sure. The doctor said if you take too much it doesn't matter... The Proxeed he takes has CoQ10 in it and it's already flipping expensive and he has to buy it from the US - so I think he should be covered for supplements. 

Yes let's hope the next roll of the dice works for us both. I'm getting very tired. When are you starting again? x


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

Yep its a mentally exhausting mission.
. was supposed to start this week after cancelled cycle but my period hasnt showed up yet...so who knows when it will arrive .... is taking ages... so annoying...im really hoping to fit in 2 cycles before the end of the year....now im a veteran im pretty comfortable doing back to back cycles here on whilst Im still under 40. And going to talk to my Dr about doing HGH after this one too..may as well go the whole way - I've been taking DHEA for 12 months now without any real side effects.


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Freefall - I was interested in taking DHEA but my doctor said he didn't think i should. So I just thought I wouldn't risk it. I get a reasonable amount of eggs anyway, so thought I would just leave it. Interested in HGH though - what does it do? It's not something I've heard too many people talk about. I'd also be up for doing back to back cycles. We just had a month break between cycles 3 and 4 and I was fine with it. To be honest I'd rather not waste time. But I'm hoping we won't have to do anymore fresh cycles, and if we do it will only be the one last try before moving on to donor. Fingers crossed! 

x


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

Hi Claudia,

I was put on the DHEA to improve egg quality, I personally don't think it does anything for quantity - certainly doesn't seem to have made any difference for me from a quantity point of view anyway.  I think the DHEA is pretty safe if you monitor your testosterone levels to make sure they don't go outside of the normal range.

The HGH is basically operating on the same principle as the DHEA, however its more of a direct effect where as the DHEA is indirect. Both are essentially give to try to create a more 'youthful' ovarian environment. HGH and DHEA levels fall as we age, so the REs who use it are basically trying to get our ovarian environment back to that similar to when we were in our mid 20s - 30s in the hope it improves how our ovaries mature our eggs and therefore produce higher quality/more competent eggs and thus higher quality embryos.  Most REs only give HGH for 10 days because its so expensive. However I think its probably more beneficial to do it for 3 months - its just funding that period of supplementation that is the most prohibitive factor.  CHR is currently doing a study on longterm HGH supplementation in older patients - will be interesting to see what they come up with.  Personally I am in favor of using HGH and I'm going to give it a go - firstly for the 10 days and then possibly I might do it for longer if I notice improved egg quality just with the 10 days.  Its important for me to feel like I have given it 100% before I give up.

How did you go with the embryos that you had biopsied in your last cycle?  Did some come back normal? 
If you are only going to try one more go at stim cycle you should try and find out if your partners swimmers have high DNA fragmentation levels just so you know if maybe you would do better with donor sperm before you give up on your eggs.  Also you don't want to have poor outcomes with donor eggs, so good to know if the sperm is ok before you go down that path.  Apparently natural conception with an older male partner takes 3 times longer than couples of same age so personally I think the older sperm thing is a factor in all of this - more than the REs really realise/acknowledge/know.

I am still waiting for a period!!!! Soooooo annoying! I think I am up to day 32!  The longer it goes on the less likely I am to fit in 2 cycles before X-mas! Anyway the journey continues....

x


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## hopingforutopia (Nov 16, 2015)

How is everyone doing?  The OH visited this weekend which just happened to coincide with ovulation so fingers crossed that this time it will work.  That being said, I'm having a major wobble that it will never work.  Everything, well perhaps just our ages, is against us.  I am beginning to feel that I'm a failure at life.  Woe is me...


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Freefall - sorry i thought i had responded. Thanks for all the info!! if I do another fresh round, I'll ask about HGH. 

Hopingforutopia - we've all been there hun. It SUCKS - just keep going. sending   and big  

xxx


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## hopingforutopia (Nov 16, 2015)

Well, still no BFP here.  Anyone else with any news?


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

No BFP here either - although I have been busy. ERA in December which came back receptive and then we PGS tested our 6 frosties on Wednesday. 2 came back as normal although, heartbreakingly, one did not survive the biopsy. But we transferred the other normal one yesterday. This is our best ever shot at this and realistically probably our final attempt. So it's from here to OTD. Please let this happen for us...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

Wow Claudia thats great that you got to transfer a normal blast! Great that you are making normal embryos!! 
Me... no BFP.... however i havent done a transfer since August 2016 and have just been embryo banking since then... i have something like 3 blasts , and 5 day 3 embryos... not planning on doing any transfers until after Im 40 cause i just need a break from the negative outcomes and want to be happy on my birthday... i guess im just delaying what im expecting will be more failed transfers -  so i dont have to deal with the disappointment now... you get to that point after 6 failed cycles! Expecting failure that is... 

Going to try and do one more cycle before i turn 40 in April and then start facing reality... 
Hope everyone else is having some success!! Xx


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Thanks Freefall - unfortunately our normal embyro didn't take which was just more heartbreaking that I can say. Those blasts where from when I had just turned 39 so over a year ago and I haven't had a normal blast since then...so not feeling particularly hopeful. But I have two more cycles to go and then we will move to DE. I've accepted that now. as sad as it is, it is reality and I want us to move forward with our lives. 

x


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

Hi Claudia,

I'm really sorry to hear that. I know how disappointing it is to have negative outcomes over and over again.....must be even worse when you know that you have a normal embryo on board.....so I really feel for you....I thought one of us was finally going to 'make it'!

IVF is very consuming, I understand just wanting to move on with your life.  However you have 2 cycles left to do so best to just focus on making them the best you can.  Apparently doing back to back cycles has actually been shown to improve egg quality.  I have also started using Luveris with my cycles in addition to FSH.  Luveris apparently provides some LH support and may assist women how have quite low LH during their cycle and also older ladies like us.  I seem to have had better fertilization rates and better quality  embryos in the last 3 cycles than I have ever before - I'm not sure if its the fact that I quit working to reduce my stress levels, or because I started using Luveris or have been taking DHEA for over 12 months now, exercising less, or if its just random.  But it certainly has been nice going from a fertilisation rate of 30% to 75%-100% !!  I know it doesn't mean any of my embryos are normal, but its nice to get some positives for a change...

Have you been taking DHEA? My FS tells me that its now clinically been proven that DHEA in older women does improve birth rates/embryo quality ....I have been taking it for a year and apparently my eggs aren't 'fragile' anymore.  I had to do another ICSI cycle with my partner, which I was trying to avoid at all costs because the majority of my eggs collapse after ICSI, however this time around seems that of 7 eggs none collapsed 5 fertilized and all 5 were suitable for freezing at day 3 - 1 x 7 cell and 4 x 8 cell..which for me is a stark contrast to almost exactly 12 months ago where I had ICSI of 5 eggs 2 collapsed and the remaining 3 that fertilized didn't make it to day 3! go figure....

Anyway i guess what I'm saying is have a chat to your FS about Luveris and DHEA. And think about what you can do to minimise your stress levels, despite all the vitamins and drugs I take I kind of believe the thing that has made the most difference to my journey has been reducing my exposure to stress - work, caring for a parent, etc etc....

I am still considering using growth hormone but haven't actually done so as yet.

Anyway stay strong, you have 2 full cycles to go and at least you know you are capable of producing normal embryos. I sincerely wish you all the best and I hope that your next 2 cycles are the ones that get you there.

xx


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Hi Freefall,

sorry for late reply. I was away for the weekend and just been really busy. Thanks so much for your sympathy - yes it was really hard. I think we both thought after so much failure and this time with a proven normal embryo, SURELY the odds would be in our favour! It was pretty hard to swallow that yet again we were out of luck. And then to hear that our other normal embyro didn't survive the biopsy when all the other 4 abnormal ones did. I mean come on!!! happens in less than 5% of cases the embryologist told me. Unbelievable. 

But I have to move forward as if I think about that too much I will go mad. I am over a year older since when I 'made' those normal embryos and I somewhat doubt I have any normal eggs left, but yes giving it one final shot. So two more cycles left on our package. Its actually CD1 today for me so that means we start DR again in 3 weeks time. 

I actually started taking DHEA just before my last cycle last month. I don't think there was enough time for it to do anything for that but I'm hoping that it might make a little difference for this next one. No I didn't know it had been proven to help -I thought the jury was still very much out on that. Which clinic are you at if you don't mind me asking? I'm already on Menopur which is an LH and FSH combination drug so I get the LH boost. I had a chat with my consultant about what drugs to do for these three cycles and he said as I had produced normal eggs on Menopur it is probably best to stick with that which makes sense. I did do one round of Gonal F and Luveris and although I got slightly more eggs we ended up with 4 mediocre blasts so it wasn't the best result. I usually get better grade blasts on Menopur. I think its probably a very personal thing and each person reacts differently - i guess you have to find the combination that works best for you. I did also ask my FS about HGH but he said there was a pretty convincing study that showed that it didn't work so he didn't recommend it. I'm happy with just adding DHEA for our final role of the dice and see where that gets us. I'm pretty resigned to the fact that we will be moving on to DE in the summer - but who knows, maybe we will win the lottery before then! 

Great that you think DHEA is having a really positive impact for you. that's very encouraging! So what stage are you at? Are you going to do FETs? or PGSs? or a fresh cycle?

xx


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

Hi Claudia,

Im going to do another banking cycle - hopefully- before my 40th in April and then I will probably have to start growing to day 5 and either pgd or transfer.

I decided to consult another FS who only does IVF - nothing else - he wants me to change from DHEA to Testosterone gel and to have a laproscopy to check for endo and do natural killer cell test before I do anymore transfers as the fact I have never had a hint of BFP/implantation after transfer of 4 good quality blasts is worrying him.

He seems to think alot of girls have normal.looking lining on US can still have endo and only way to rule it out is with a laparoscopy... 

I've come this far so why not keep going and do a bit more invasive procedures!  

Anyway I really like the new FS so I'm going to switch to him and have all my embies transferred to his practice too.  

I am missing a cycle right now because Im in vietnam....of course i have to ovulate whilst im not in the.country and my partner is at home   !

Anyway hope things are going well for you... 

Xx


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Hi Freefall,

great to have a change of direction and a new plan! That always helps me find new hope. I've never heard of testosterone gel - what is that? 

so annoying about being away when you ovulate - I hate that!! 

x


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

Hi Claudia,
how is everything going with you?
Have you finished your 3 cycles yet?


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Hi Freefall,

good to hear from you. I'm good thanks, one more cycle to go, start DR in 12 days. The last cycle went better as we switched back to Long Protocol which is so much better for me. We got 9 eggs, 7 mature and 7 fertilized. So we now have 10 embryos, all frozen at day 2. Not great numbers, we were let done by the disastrous shot protocol of the first batching cycle but it is what it is. If we can get another 7 this time that will be good. 

I just stopped taking the DHEA because I was getting really spotty and apart from that fact that was horrible, it also worried me that my androgen levels were getting too high. I'm going to give it a rest for another week and then go back on it. It didn't seem to have an overwhelming effect for my last cycle, 9 eggs is normal for us, but I'll keep on with it for this last cycle anyway. 

How are you doing? If see from your signature that you seem to have done more collections. Are you egg freezing? Or what is the current plan?

x


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

Hi Claudia,

I think you are doing just about where you should expect. 9 eggs is a good outcome, so hopefully you get the same again for your last banking cycle.  I wouldn't stress to much about the DHEA, I used to worry about my androgen levels too, but I got them tested twice in the last 15 months that I've been using DHEA and they have never been above the 'normal' female range.  I think the dosage that we take is actually too small to bump us over the threshold, despite any spots and symptoms we get.  I did get some spots at one stage, but it seems to me that my body has just adapted to taking it as I don't see any androgenised side effects at all.  My skin is perfectly clear and I do not have any extra hair growth etc.  I'm even taking androgen now (testosterone) and that doesn't seem to have androgenised me either!! So there you go.
However I alternate the testosterone and the DHEA, I can't use the androgel when I'm actually cycling, so I take the DHEA then, and when I stop taking the stim hormones I start on the androgel again.  

Yes I am egg freezing now.  Despite having 10 day 3 embryos in the freezer. My relationship with my partner deteriorated to the point that I'm not even sure I can bring myself to use those 10 embryos!!! Which is disturbing after the struggle I went through to get there.  Anyway my new FS and I decided that because I was so undecided that I would 'actively do nothing'.  He seems to think that egg freezing these days will leave the eggs as good as they would have been if we had fertilised them at the time of collection.  So I decided I would do 5 cycles of egg freezing to get the obligatory 30 eggs they like to have in the freezer. I was expecting similar outcomes to that last 18 months, hence the 5 cycles.  But I have only done 2 cycles and already have 22 eggs!! Which was a huge suprise, the cycle I just did was crazy, i ended up with 22 eggs, 15 of those were mature and suitable for freezing.  Not sure how that happened because its more than double the best egg collection I have ever done. And I'm 2 years older than when I started! Go figure. I really like my new FS and he has given me a new drug regime, I now take Elonva in addition to Gonal-F (its basically a long active FSH shot).  Anyway seems to have done the trick on the last cycle!  I'm still kind of recovering from the shock of having so many eggs. 

So despite nearly reaching the 30 eggs after 2 cycles I am going to do the 5 cycles all the same, if I get more than the 30 eggs that's a bonus.  Its been interesting because the trigger injection I have been using for egg freezing is different than what they use for embryo freezing, so I have been getting my period 5 days after egg collection! So my back to back cycles are literally only 1 week apart at the moment! Its crazy, but I'm so used to cycling now it isn't really bothering me doing an egg collection every 3 weeks. I kind of like the thought of getting it done in 2.5 months instead of 5!!! Because I'll be younger and plus I'll hopefully be able to move on with my life sooner.  In fact the thought of stopping actually scares me now! To just have a normal period and let my eggs go. Seems strange to me. I'd like to do something with them but one has to be pragmatic about the cost of collecting their eggs in the end! If I could afford it I would probably collect eggs until I was 41!! Ha ha! Just to feel like I had given it 200% before stopping and entering the complete unknown.

Anyway by the time I finish I will have done everything I think anyone could ever have reasonably done. And if that is not enough then I guess I have to accept it.  At the end of the day if it really comes down to it I can always go down the donor egg path. 

However, given the progress they are making with biotechnology a part of me believes that if I have eggs frozen that in another 5 years time I suspect they will probably be able to manipulate those 'old' eggs to perform more like younger eggs - for example with the 3 person IVF they are doing know, where they replace the cytoplasm of the old egg with cytoplasm of a younger egg in order to provide the younger mitrochondria and energy required for normal meiosis.  I think in another 5 years there will be major progess with this and hopefully even if my eggs aren't 'perfect' now that in 5 years they will have a means to make them function like younger eggs and produce normal embryos.  Maybe not, but at this stage, its my best chance of having a child that is genetically mine.

Anyway that is where I'm at! The poster girls for not being able to give up!!

X


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Wow Freefall sounds like you are doing amazingly well! And 22 eggs! I think i would have a heart attack. I've never got more than 10... 

You have a great plan and yes who knows where they will be in 5 years. 3 person IVF is a little new at the moment but in 5 years it could be standard treatment for us 'oldies'. Unforttunately it will be just too late for me though as we have decide to move on to DE if this last attempt doesn't work. My DH is 55 now so I really don't want to wait another 5 years, we need to get this show on the road and if that means saying goodbye to my own genetic child, well do be it. I've had several years to get my head around it and I just want us to be family more than anything. So that's our path ahead. 

Glad you think the DHEA doesn't do harm. I'm back on it now after a 2 week break. DR starts on Friday! 

xx


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

Yes I thought I had double vision when i woke up and saw 22 written on my hand! Anyway they could all be rubbish for all I know... yes I didn't factor in the partner age because I pretty much don't have one anymore!! But as you do makes sense you want to move on....

Well I sincerely wish you all the best for the last cycle and I hope and pray for you guys that you do have sucess from your banked embryos.  Sending you love and sending your ovaries happy vibes....and hoping they produce some perfect eggs for you.. 

Xx


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

My update, just incase anyone in my thread is still on the journey!  

I had another egg collection today, had in excess of 20 follicles at scan on Monday, collected 19 eggs today.  All mature, all suitable for freezing. Wow - WTF is going on.  I get better outcomes now I'm 40 than when I started IVF having only just turned 38!!  

Admittedly I have no baby to show for it, but at least now I feel hopeful that it might actually be possible if I stick to my new plan and do 2 more egg collections, to take it to a total of 5, before I stop IVF altogether.  

If things keep going the way the way they have been since I got my new FS and started egg freezing in Feb 17 I will hopefully have 80 eggs in the freezer by the time I finish! I have 41 now. 

If i can't get 1 kid out of 80 frozen eggs, on top of the 64 eggs I have already had collected by my previous FS in 9 cycles then I concede that my eggs are 100% crap and I can't have a bio-kid and its time to move on from OE and go the DE option oneday!

Anyway I feel good that I've truely given it all 110% and if its not good enough, then its simply just not good enough! I am doing 2 more stim cycles, to bring it to a total of 14 and then I'm done!! I will be 40.5 and I'm going to start living again!! I am hoping that I can get this finished and done with by Sept/Oct.  I was lucky my first 2 cycles to be able to do them back to back, but since my egg numbers have gone up so drastically my ovaries are just not recovering quick enough to do back to back cycles anymore. So whilst I thought I was going to be finished by August it looks like its going to be more like Sept/Oct.....at least its going to finish!

For my last cycle I included HGH - I have wanted to do HGH for a while - so pleased that I can add that in for my final 3 cycles, even if it doesn't actually make any difference I just feel better knowing I have done everything I can.  

Anyway I am so happy to have the FS that I have and a new clinic....the last one was just rubbish in hindsight!

Hope everyone else is doing ok

X


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Wow Freefall that is amazing! 41 eggs in the freezer already, you almost stop there and have a pretty decent chance of having at least one normal! With 80 you will have a football team! very impressive that you are so committed and you will absolutely have given it 110%! When do you plan on using the eggs? sometime soon or is that a few years ahead?

AFM - I am currently 6dp5dt on my last ever attempt with OE. We transferred 1x5AB and 1x grade 1 compacting morula. OTD is Saturday, I'm not holding out much hope though and expect to be moving on to DE next month. 

x


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

Oh Claudia, I do really hope this transfer works for you guys!
It just seems so unjust that you have done so many cycles as well and have had such difficulties as well.  It such a long and painful journey.
I thought you were banking all the embryos from you 3 cycles and transferring them after you had finished? but from you signature you don't have any frosties so did you transfer embryos during the 3 cycles?

I still think the FS's underestimate the effect older sperm has on our old eggs....maybe I'm kidding myself, but seems like our little group has a higher than average failure rate, even for the early 40 group....and the only common thread is the old men! ha ha...wouldn't they hate to be called that...

I have no idea when I will use my eggs now.  I guess the next step will be to decide if I want to fertilise them with donor sperm and be a single mother or hold out and see if I meet someone new and try to conceive with them at a later date.  I guess I have so much IVF fatigue the plan is to just stop once the last 2 egg freezing cycles are over, live my life for 6 months and then review where I'm at and make a decision.

IVF has pretty much destroyed the life I had so now its just about seeing out the final 2 cycles and then 'free falling' for a while....

It would be great to have a real ending, but it seems to me that my eggs and my embryos are all going to be in a frozen state of limbo for a while whilst i try to put myself back together and figure out what to do next!  

Anyway I sincerely wish that your final OE transfer is successful and if not then DE is a great option, you will finally get the family that you want and deserve.  

Please keep us posted how you go, all my fingers and toes crossed for you

xx


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Hi,

so we did the 3 cycles but they froze them all at 2pn (day 1) for the first two cycles and then thaw them and culture them all to blastocyst at the same time, along with any new embryos from the 3rd cycle. No frosties because we transferred two on day 5 of the 3rd cycle and the other remaining blasts on day 6 weren't top quality so the embryologist didn't want to freeze. We were going to do PGS and then an FET next month if any normal but actually that would have cost us another 4.5k and taken another month and to be honest we are out of funds and I'm exhausted by the whole thing. So we just decided to transfer the best two fresh and send some prayers upwards. If it doesn't work, we will move to DE next cycle. I'm very keen to move forward due to DH's age so really every month is precious at this point. 

So out of our 3 cycles, the first was rubbish as we did short protocol which just doesn't work for me so we ended up with too many immature eggs (also, we discovered afterwards that DH has mild DNA sperm frag so switched to ICSI). The second cycle we did LP again which is much better for me with more mature eggs and all of them fertilising. Then the 3rd cycle was a total disaster! We got 10 eggs which isn't bad for me but only 3 fertilsied with ICSI. Whhhaaaatttt? That is very unusual for us, we normally have a high fertilisation rate. The embryologist said it was an egg quality issue, and with my age I'm sure she is right. But so strange that just the month before I seemed to have decent eggs and 100% fertilisation and then suddenly they just fell off a cliff! They can't have deteriorated that quickly can they? I put it down to just bad luck with a rouge batch of bad eggs, or possibly the effects of the DHEA which I have now been on, un-monitored, for over 3 months. Maybe there was just too much testosterone and it spoiled them. Who knows. But it really just shows how random the whole thing is! And that when you get to our age, egg quality seems to vary quite dramatically - so having a ton in the freezer is fantastic!! 

the two we transferred were, unsurprisingly, from the second cycle. I was pretty disappointed with only having 13 emrbyos at the end. I thought i would have at least 20 from 3 cycles, but that's life I guess. In a way, having such poor quality eggs on the final cycle has helped me realise its definitely time to stop. I think if they had been great there would always be that 'what if' question and I'd be tempted to carry on. At least now I def know we need to move on. 

I think you have a great plan, it makes total sense to just taken at least 6 months off, get your life back, and see if Mr Right pops his head up. Either way you have given yourself choices which is excellent! I bet you can't wait to no longer have to do injections and scans etc. You will feel like a new woman!! can you plan some big life adventure for when you are finally done? Go on safari or do a road trip across the sates? Something to celebrate having your freedom back!!!? 

x


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## hopingforutopia (Nov 16, 2015)

WOW!  So much has been happening in my absence!  I hope all of you are doing well and are on the road to that all illusive positive test... We have still been TTC but to no avail.  A lot of loss (my dog and then my mum) in my life plus career change and a minor operation.  My GP has been fantastic and referred me to the local NHS.  My appointment was this morning and I have to say I have never felt so depressed with the abrupt manner of the consultant.  I am fully aware of my age and my circumstances - what I don't need is someone spelling it out to me without actually looking at my medical history and providing me with some advice.  She actually attempted to explain to me how my ovaries work...  If I am to undertake any tests via the NHS then the follow up appointment "won't be until at least January".  I am thoroughly disheartened and believe that a baby will never appear. 

So we are possibly onto considering next steps/private consultation.  Losing hope...


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Hi HFU

sorry to hear your appointment didn't go well. so many doctors have such a crap bedside manner its unbelievable. A doctor i saw at a private clinic reduced me to tears once as she was so dismissive of the questions I asked and made me feel like such a looser for not having had babies at 21. 

Can i ask though, when you say you have been refereed to the NHS  - why do you mean exactly? Did you GP refer you to a fertility clinic? I thought they wouldn't treat anyone over 40?7

AFM - I am just about to embark on my DE cycle. I have a scratch and scan booked for tomorrow afternoon and then start on the down reg nasal spray tomorrow evening. so glad to be finally moving forward with something that might actually bring me a baby, but there is also that sadness that I just couldn't do it with my own eggs.  

x


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## hopingforutopia (Nov 16, 2015)

Hi Claudia

Thanks for your good wishes.  I'm really sorry to hear that your journey hasn't gone according to plan :-( but also glad to hear that you are moving onwards. 

Yes, my GP referred me.  The NHS has increased the age limit to 42.  It is up to the individual NHS trust as to whether they provide treatment up to this age.  My trust will carry out all the relevant tests but should I want to go the IUI or IVF route then I would have to pay for it.  In a world where women are having children much later I feel very much penalised and that the health systems are behind with their processes and indeed, their assumptions.

x


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Ah I see. Yes I did one cycle of IVF on the NHS but I was 39 at the time. You're right they won't cover treatment over 40. 

Best of luck with everything though - I have my fingers crossed for you! X 


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## Delectable_Sunshine (Jun 6, 2016)

I'm 40 in November. Single, never married, no kids. I've just read your thread saying the NHS oesn't provide treatment after 40. Is there anything I can do within the next few months please? Tests? Freezing eggs? Plesae be gentle, I've been feeling very low. Thank you.


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Hi Sunshine!

welcome to our thread. If you aren't 40 til November, the good news is that you still have time! But the NHS are quite strict about the 40 cut off so I would get moving asap. First thing to do is go and see your GP, explain the situation and don't leave until they have referred you to an NHS fertility clinic. This could take a few weeks so I'd make an appointment with your GP asap. 

Whatever you decide to do, I'd say just make that appointment and get the ball rolling. Options will become clear as you go, but the most important thing is to start talking to people and find out what you can do. 

sending you lots of luck! x


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## Delectable_Sunshine (Jun 6, 2016)

Thank you Claudia; but what do I tell my GP? 
That I want to have a child and I am immobilised because I feel time is running out?


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Yes, i'd just be honest and ask for her help. 

Also have a look at the new HFEA website. That's has info for all different kinds of people wanting to become parents, including single people. And they have info on funding too. 

X 


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## Delectable_Sunshine (Jun 6, 2016)

Thank you.


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## hopingforutopia (Nov 16, 2015)

How is everyone doing?  Here, I am rapidly giving up any hope of reproducing.  I'm due to have a hysteroscopy in December (NHS waiting times are ridiculous) and my partner's SA has found that his swimmers have limited motility.  We are now left wondering what next?!  At the grand old age of 41.5, time really is running out


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## cosmopolitan4112008 (Oct 18, 2013)

Motility is the least of the problems...what about morphology and dna fragmentation? These 2 will give you the real situation of the sperm.


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## freefall (Dec 13, 2015)

Hi Gals
Well i just wanted to give you all an update.
So I finally finished egg banking - ended up with 68 in the freezer. If that is not enough for one kid then I officially give up.  Now I just need to find someone to use them with!! Thanks to the rubbish handling of my first 10 cycles over 2 years with Dr Flynn at QFG Gold Coast I ended up without a relationship and rubbish embryos that were probably being poisoned by my partners medications because the Doctor never took a proper medical history and failed to identify that he was taking a drug that most likely was killing my poor eggs!! 

Thank god for Dr Ong at Monash IVF Gold Coast who I started seeing in March this year and who has managed to retrieve 68 eggs in 5 cycles over 5 months and actually give me a chance at finding a new partner and having a baby one day!! Well there is always donor sperm of course to use them with. But we all want that fantasy of finding someone to share child rearing with. Right!

Anyway so where I am at
- finished egg banking in August 2017
- had 3 months of no IVF - has been awesome - just to get back to normal life and not thinking about IVF or anythign associated with IVF. 
- i am starting to get used to the idea that i might never have kids now. Despite the 68 eggs in the freezer i guess i feel like the last 3 months have made me realise that i can be happy without kids. Thats a nice place to get to because during IVF you feel like there is no hope at happiness - ever. Well there can be - regardless of the outcome.
- i am going to ask my new specialist how long I can wait until i use my eggs. Thinking after everything i have been through that waiting till i’m 45 might actually be a good idea! Have some fun and then face reality. I just don’t think I can deal with more IVF right now. Its sooooooo stressful and emotional. I just need a break from thinking about it. 

Anyway having been to the end of the earth and back with IVF my recommendation for any girls that are having treatment in Queensland is to avoid Dr Flynn at QFG Gold Coast like the plague and go to Dr Ong at Monash IVF. He is amazing. He does nothing but IVF, whereas the other ‘specialists’ like Dr Micheal Flynn are still doing obstetrics and other gyno procedures and just don’t have the experience or expertise of someone who literally does nothing else but IVF all day everyday. Dr Ong told me that he manages about 600 IVF cycles a year whilst most others on the Gold Coast only do about 130.  So he really gets to see what works and what doesn’t.Also he is a LOVELY man and takes the time to listen to patients and actually treats them like human beings rather than battery chickens. 

Sorry i can’t help but think if i had seen Dr Ong from the start I wouldnt’ have ended up in the situation i find myself in now. So for those girls who are at the choice making end of the equation and choosing a Doctor you MUST see Dr Ong. Save yourself the heartache and pain for poor advice and poor treatment.


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## Syd72 (Sep 15, 2016)

Hi ladies, is it ok if I join you?  Been ttc with older partner (he's 9 years older than me) for a few years, all details in signature.  We were living in separate countries (continents) for the first year so didn't see each other every month.  His sperm seems to be absolutely fine, standard tests all come back normal and Serum did a dna frag test in the summer and that was fine too, can't remember the exact number but Penny said no issue.  We've decided to move on to donor eggs, much easier decision for me than it was for him.  I had a hysto last weekend and hoping to cycle in January.

Sorry to read everything that you've all been through, hoping for lots of great news in 2018!


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## miamiamo (Aug 9, 2015)

Syd72 - good luck with yr cycling xx


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## hopingforutopia (Nov 16, 2015)

Hello All

It's been a while since I logged on as working things through with my partner and we are just about to start ICSI treatment.  We realised we were going nowhere naturally, had an appointment on the NHS (I wasn;t impressed with the consultant) and have decided to go private.  We are having to pay anyway due to my age and him having previous children.  We have also found out that he has severe oligoasthenozoospermia.  This has left me wondering what the chances are, even through ICSI, of making a baby?!  I am trying to be positive but failing...miserably.  I'm due to start injecting next week but is there any point?  Sorry, I wanted my next post on this thread to be one of positivity for you ladies.


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Hi HFU,

I'm going to be totally honest with you as I think that is what you are after. I think with the fertility challenges that you face honestly your chances are pretty slim. ICSI is amazing, and while I don't really know about the sperm condition that your husband has, I am sure it will help. There are also additional things they can do such as IMSI (where they use a very high powered microscope to examine the sperm and select the best) which might be worth thinking about. So those things can seriously help improve the sperm. The reason why I say your chances aren't great is sadly down to your egg quality. At 41 the frustrating reality is that the vast majority of your eggs will be chromosomaly abnormal and not able to create a baby. I know you probably know this already but it is something to think seriously about before spending all that money. 

In the end nobody can say that you definitely won't get pregnant and have a baby and there is always a chance. But statistically, the chance is pretty small, especially when combined with your partner's sperm issues. So really it comes down to a choice that only you can decide - is the amount of money worth if for the small chance of success? For some people, they will say it definitely is as if they don't try they may always be left wondering and even if they tried and didn't succeed at least they know they gave it their best shot and can then move on more easily. For others, the cost is prohibitive when the chances of success aren't great. It's really a very personal decision and one that only you can make. 

I'm not saying this to be depressing and I'm certainly not saying don't do it - I have been there myself; our last 3 rounds of IVF were when I was 40 and although they weren't successful at least I feel I gave it my all and it made the move to donor egg easier. 

and remember - however small the chance you do absolutely still have a chance. It really just comes down to money now. 

best of luck whatever you decide!
xx


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## Vivbubwish (Sep 17, 2017)

Hi, can I join you ladies? I'm Viv, 41, partnr (60), currently waiting for a lap (which is pencilled in for end May) for suspected endo. Test results so far are fsh 11 and amh 4.8. All clinical letters I've had confirming these results are starkly clinical, devoid of any sensitivity and depressingly negative about my chances of conceiving. Have started looking into clinics but no idea whats going to give us the best chance. We have male factor issues too, low sperm count, along with low motility and morphology. We had hoped on iui after natural attempts dont seem to be working but consultant said we would be wasting our money, and has recommended the full ivf/icsi option. Have looked into Create clinic too as I liked the idea of a natural/mild approach. Im trying to remain hopeful but the pain/grief comes in waves fearing I will never be a mummy. They say it takes one egg and one sperm. We must remain hopeful however we end up getting there xxx


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## hopingforutopia (Nov 16, 2015)

Yes I know statistically that the odds are against us but I will regret it if we do not try again (and possibly again).  Our first cycle of ICSI was unsuccessful (short/mild protocol).  10 eggs were retrieved; 8 mature; 4 fertilised and 1 transferred on day 5.  The remaining 3 arrested on day 6.  We were both pretty laid back throughout the entire process but are now very upset by it all.  We went into this with so much positivity and now I fear that I will never have a child.  I have spent the weekend scouring the internet for hope and advice but think that this will never happen.  I just feel so empty.


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Hi Both

HFU - I totally understand, I really do I have absolutely been there. If you feel you aren't ready to stop and you need to try again then that is absolutely what you should do. Remember - there is still a chance, no matter how much the statistics say its against you. But it is also just worth having those other options in the back of your mind. When someone first said the words donor egg to me I felt mortified, like that was really the end, a shameful fate worse than anything and how on earth would I get over never having my own child, something i have always always wanted to do (it just took me a while to find Mr Right!). 

It took me a good two years, but eventually I just stopped caring so much about the genetics - and at a scan this morning I got to see my little baby waving at me. Ok so it won't share my genes, but who really cares? i get to grow it, give birth to it, breast feed it - that's a pretty massive biological connection in my book. And it has my DH's genes so it's not like its a total unknown - and with the role epigenetics play, it will have my thumbprint on its very makeup. It's not for everyone and its certainly not a decision to be taken lightly and can only really be made when you've grieved for the loss of your genetic child. It's nobody's Plan A, but it's a pretty brilliant Plan B - just something to have in the back of your mind while you cycle again (if that's what you decide to do!) 

Vivbubwish - I'm sorry you are in a similar situation. I'm sending you the best of luck xxx


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## hopingforutopia (Nov 16, 2015)

Hi Claudia

Thanks for the reply.  My OH thinks I am thinking too far ahead and when I broached the subject of donor eggs or sperm it was a definite no from him.  He would rather have a few more tries with ICSI and then call it a day.  I too waited a while for Mr Right and there were other personal circumstances which meant that baby making had to be put on hold.  I feel so stupid for not trying earlier in my life


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

HFU - please don't feel stupid - we are all in the same boat. I used to lie awake torturing myself thinking 'When was the last good egg? when was it  - and I just let it slip by' - but the truth is it doesn't really work that way. You may still have good eggs, it's just very hard to find them... 

Your DH's response is totally normal and in fact my DH had the same. All I can say is if you do do a few more rounds and sadly aren't successful (and i do hope you are!!!), but if you aren't and its the choice of Donor Egg or nothing, you DH might change his mind. He's not there yet because he is still thinking about your eggs and ICSI and giving it another go(es) - but mindsets do change. Don't loose heart hun - you are still in this!!! 

x


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