# 2nd BFN Feeling Very Depressed and Wondering What To Do Next



## Sarah Sue (Mar 8, 2010)

Hi everyone,
  This is the first time I've posted on this board but have been  encouraged by how supportive everyone is. I've just received a BFN this  morning from my 2nd IVF cycle. Both times I've responded well to treatment but obviously something just goes wrong after the embryos are transferred. I'm very upset and wondering whether it's worth trying a 3rd  time or if I'm just fooling myself that I can have a child with my DH at this age. I desperately want a child with my DH but the cost of the treatment is starting to feel uncomfortable and after 2 failed treatments I'm starting to wonder whether I'm fooling myself and should accept I'm just going to be childless and try to find a way to deal with the pain of that.
Help and advice would be appreciated.


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## bizi5 (Mar 29, 2009)

Hi Sarah Sue  
I would say don't give up! You are not fooling yourself about trying to have a baby at 40, especially with the response to Tx that you have had. I always thought of it as a numbers game........ if one's chances are 30%ish each time (based on general success rates, though those for the over-40s are likely to be a bit lower), I always figured we'd have to give it at least 3 goes just based on those odds.

I'm sure you know the sad truth that at 40+ only a small proportion of our eggs are still good enough to go the whole distance (something like 1 or 2 out of 10 eggs, I think), so it may take longer and a few more goes at our age, but is still possible. Unfortunately we weren't successful with 3 goes at ICSI but my signature should explain what happened after that.....   .

I'd say think about whether you are happy with your clinic (not sure where you are but the Lister have the best success rates in the country for 40-42 age group), consider other investigations - ?immunes, ?further chromosome tests on your DH's sperm (esp as he is a bit older) and think about a plan for your next cycle with all bases covered - give yourself the very best chance (not forgetting to keep up the ttc naturally in the meantime - I have learnt that 'you never know' what will happen   ).
lots of luck!
xxx


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## Sarah Sue (Mar 8, 2010)

Thanks so much for your helpful reply. It was just what I needed and you have really lifted my spirits. Have been talking to my DH and he is very supportive about us trying again  . Congratulations on your surprise BFP by the way, how fantastic! Will let you know what happens


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## bizi5 (Mar 29, 2009)

My pleasure   , glad to have helped. Look forward to seeing how you get on and if I can help with any other info (eg re Lister etc), do let me know. Have blown you some more bubbles too for luck.

Sending you lots of   

xxx


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## Sarah Sue (Mar 8, 2010)

Hi there, I would be very interested to have more info on the Lister. Are they in London? I'm based near Bristol but my DH works in London during the week so it would be just as convenient for me to go there.
Thanks for the bubbles   
Love, Sarah xxx


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## bizi5 (Mar 29, 2009)

Will PM you   
xxx


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## Sarah Sue (Mar 8, 2010)

Hi,
Sorry for having to post this on the message board; replied to your PM but my account says that no messages have been sent, so not sure if you received them.

 Just wanted to say thanks so much for all your info regarding the Lister. I contacted them yesterday and have already received their info pack. You are right they are really helpful and friendly! Looking at the prices they don't seem much more expensive than BCRM where I had my previous 2 cycles. I'm going to look at the brochure in detail with my DH over the weekend and see what we think. I'll let you know what we eventually decide and how we get on.   

I particularly wanted to thank you for your enthusiasm and encouraging comments - they have been a ray of sunshine during a difficult time.
Best wishes and   Sarah xxx


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## smilingandwishing (Apr 24, 2010)

Sarah Sue,

just wanted to send good wishes  and join in praise for The Lister. It is where I had my treatment after a friend and a colleague had successful treatment there ( first had 1 year old twin boys, 2nd gives birth to a baby girl any day now).

Smiling xx


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## bizi5 (Mar 29, 2009)

My pleasure, Sarah     
The PMs did send - they just don't automatically save a copy of them in your sent box unless you tick the 'save message' box.
xxx


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## soozywong (Nov 30, 2009)

Dear Sarah Sue

I so feel for you and understand how hard it all is.  I also wanted to write and recommend the Lister.  I was going with UCH but they turned me down as not being good enough for IVF (ie they didn't want to ruin their statistics) and I went to the Lister and they were absolutely great, so friendly and said I was fine for IVF and they have excellent success rates for 40-42.  I had 3 embryos transferred and sadly BFN but we are looking to try again in August/Sept (long gap as in February had a miscarriage from natural pg) and I would really recommend them.  They are also not that expensive, in fact much cheaper than UCH and I think ours came out at about £5k if you shop around for cheaper drugs (I got mine from Central Homecare who I would also really recommend) but I think Asda might be doing cost price fertility drugs now?? Need to investigate for next round.  Thinking of you as you make your decision.  Sooz


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## elinor (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi Sarah Sue

I know the depression can be hard to deal with, especially just after a failed cycle - your hormones are all over the place to start with, and it is ok to feel miserable for a while.  It is also ok to seek help if it's not getting better - I was on prozac for a while last year, and it really helped (and when I was feeling happier my IUI worked! at least for a while)

I don't want to go on about things already covered in other replies, but if you are thinking of changing clinics, looking at your two cycles I would check if they have a policy on freezing single embryos - each time you have had only one good enough to freeze, but that would still have been a chance for FET. Lots of clinics only freeze in pairs/batches, and some use different techniques (if you can, go for one that does vitrification - this works best so the thaw success is better). I have never had embryos of my own good enough to freeze (but clearly produce good enough eggs, since I have had two miscarriages as well as the two biochemicals). Although FET is less likely to work than a fresh cycle, once the embryos are frozen you can go back when you feel in tiptop condition - you can do natural cycle (or medicated) so will be on fewer drugs than for IVF, or none at all. 

I know it is difficult to decide about trying again/ thinking about moving on to donor eggs (I just mention this because some clinics start pushing anyone over 40 this way, or anyone whose had a couple of unsuccessful cycles - makes their stats look much better!)/ how much money do you keep spending? But in terms of evidence of it being worth trying again, if someone is producing eggs and getting decent embryos (yes on both counts for you) then the chances of success increase with cumulative cycles up to about 7 (ie 30% of women get pregnant in 1 cycle, 47 within 2, 59 in three, 66 in four... up to about 80% in 7 cycles... there are variations with age etc, and after 41/42 you do start to stand a much better chance of a successful pregnancy using donor eggs, can't remember if these figures are exact, but it was an article published about 12-18 months ago as part of some international fertility medicine congress). I'm not recommending you have 7 cycles, or anything, just that there is research out there (sorry, can't find the link now but pm me if you'd like me to hunt back for it) about this. Research doesn't give a definite answer for anyone, and stats are only stats - even if there is a 90% chance of it working there will be 10 people out of 100 for whom it doesn't work. How would that affect you? And your relationship? I have found it helpful to set limits - I will not spend more than X; I will do something sociable, non IF related every week and every weekend (to try to keep a sense of perspective!) etc...

The Lister also has good reports from poor responders (though you seem to do well) - I'd always say go for a consult (it's the thing I most regret about my early IF years - I just waited on NHS lists for years, still had to pay for all treatment myself and didn't get second opinions till much later. Compared to cost of treatment the basic consult is generally £100 to £200, but you get to see if you feel you like the clinic, are they efficient, how do you feel you are being treated? Do they give you enough time to get your questions answered? How quickly do they get back to you? how efficient is their admin? - all this matters and can give you confidence in the whole team (or not!)

Sorry, I'd better stop waffling. Just wanted to say best of luck with whatever you decide, and it can work after 2 bfns (or more)
best wishes
Elinor x


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