# pre menstrual spotting driving me crazy



## hopeful2012

Hi everyone

I am just really starting out on the treatment road.

Myself and DH are both 31.  I am now on my 3rd month of clomid.

I am really worried though as I have had bearely any tests done by the consultant on the NHS just some blood tests and was put straight on clomid.

DH has low sperm count and poor motility.  I had read that clomid would be of no use due to the male factor but the consultant was adamant we try it.

I also get 7 days of bood spotting - sometimes quite heavy and with mild cramping prior to AF.  I have only heard of one other person on this site so far that seems to suffer from this (but I am not very good yet at navigating my way round!)

All the consultant says is that he is not worried about this.  

Has anyone else had these symptoms and been given a diagnosis of its cause and has anyone achieved a successful pregnancy with these symptoms?

Would be really good to hear some success stories as at the moment my sister in law and two best friends have all just given birth and I am finding it very hard to hold things together and just want to have some hope at the end of the Tunnel.


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## Lynschez

Hi Hopeful


Do not feel like you are the only one - I too have suffered with the same for numerous years - always told nothing to worry about and some women are just prone to shedding endometrium!!!


I'm afraid I'm not a positive story (so far!) but just wanted to let  you know that you're not alone!!


Best of luck with your journey, always here to chat if you need it   


Lyns x


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## hopeful2012

Hi Lyns

Sorry to hear you have not been successful yet in you journey.  I have my fingers crossed for you.  It looks like you have been through quite a lot.

I am glad I am not alone with this problem, but its just so frustrating that the doctors seem to just sweep it away as not an issue.

I had heard that it could be a sign of endo so I am going to ask the consultant about this when I go back in November.

Hopeful


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## cosmicgirl

Hopeful, would you mind reporting back what your consultant says?


I have this problem most months, I was always under the impression it was a sign of low progesterone but my GP dismissed this as my day 18 blood tests were fine apparently (I have a 25-26 day cycle).


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## cupcake30

I have the same thing!
I am sort-of medical myself so rather frustrated when my GP fobs me off. Perhaps I am paranoid but I wonder if it's a sign of endometriosis; I spot for 3-4 days before having a proper Period. this means that my 'Day 21' blood tests show I'm anovulatory - when I know from doing urine LH tests I ovulate in 3/4 cycles. The NHS insist on treating me with clomid which isn't going to help.
I'm very early on in my journey; 12 months, 15 periods (21-24 day cycle) and going for my first appointment soon for assessment, Wish me luck!


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## FEW

Hi Ladies just a quickie

yes pre menstrual spotting is a sign of low progesterone and yes you can still OV and then have it drop off quickly causing the symptoms you describe thus the lining will shed preventing implantaion have a look at this thread it may well give you mucch more info to take to your gp

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=217901.0

good luck to you all

oh and this has also always been an issue for me and it is resolved by taking progesterone from a few days after ov and has resulted in 2 pg I have however had 5 m/c along the way so take hope girls

Fran


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## hopeful2012

Cosmicgirl

Of course I will let you know the outcome of speaking to my consultant - I am due there in November.

I too thought it was down to low progesterone but I too get a good reading from Blood Tests.

Hopeful


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## hopeful2012

Cupcake 30

Here is some good luck coming your way for your first appointment.

I too have the same - I have been told I ovulate but have been slapped on Clomid anyway - which is really no good as DH has low sperm count so is going to be of very little use!

Hopeful


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## dragonfly79

Hi girls - 

I have had this problem since stopping the pill over 2 years ago.  I did conceive in May 09 which sadly ended in miscarrage.

Since the MC and D&C my spotting has got worse and I forced GP to send me for a Lap and Dye - it showed clear tubes etc and all else fine but very mild endo which they lasered. The consultant tells me that the spotting is not related to the endo and that I needed further investigations.  

I had a progesterone reading of 49.5 in Dec 09 so they say I OV'd.  My gynae believes that my lining is shedding early.  I feel it is a combo of fluctuating hormones and possibly my lining it too thick.  TMI but it is always trigger by a bowel movement.  

Now my hair is also falling out which happened after my MC!  I again believe this to be hormone related.  

Anyway - as you can see from my signature we are about to go to a private clinic in Glasgow - we have yet to be told what our treatment will be however I am very hopeful that they will be able to help me and that he drugs will overcome the spotting or anyt other imbalances and this clinic does support your with progesterone and other magical things in early pregnancy and 2WW.

I will definitely come back and share my results with you all.  I know I can get PG - and although I do think there is an imbalance I will get there one day!!!  

Best of luck
XX


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## Lanta

Hi girls

Hopeful - how you doing? we chatted a couple of months ago about spotting. I wondered how you were getting on.  

I usually get up to a week of spotting before AF but no doctor or consultant I've seen seems concerned or willing to get to the bottom of it.  I am convinced it's progesterone related.  Each time I've done IVF/ FET they've given me progesterone supplements during the 2WW and in each of those 3 times I've had no spotting which can't be an coincidence (no BFP either but that's another matter!). The seem to test progesterone levels on day 21 which is of no use if you ovulate late, what they should do is check when you ovulate and then test at 7 days post this and then every couple of days after this which will give you an indication of whether it's dropping off fast or not.  If you're lining is starting to shed early it seems obvious to me that implantation can't happen.

I'll be really interested to hear the outcome of other people investigations.  I'm also changing clinics to one where they do much thorough investigations so hopefully they can shed some light.

Good luck everyone
Lanta
x


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## BobbyS

Hi there

I have the same thing that only started about 6 months ago. I have brown spotting 5 days before AF arrives. I got excited the first time it happened as I thought it was implantation spotting    . It always coincides with a drop in my BBT (not below the coverline but an obvious drop). This led me to worry that my luteral phase was too short if my progesterone dropped when I started spotting.

I mentioned to the fertility specialist that I thought it might be low progestorone, he did no tests or investigations for this but said that it was just part of my cycle and if I got pregnant I wouldn't have it. 

My doctor said that she wouldn't give me progesterone as she didn't think it would help and just suggested IVF....
Fingers crossed we can get to the bottom of it!
xx


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## FEW

hi Booby

many consultant have a negative view of progesterone however the royal london ( one of the countries largest recurrent m/c clinic) have just completed a study and it did show that supplimentation for women like us increases the chances of conception and maintaining the preg, the thinking is very new but very much current.

I am a succes of this new thinking I always spotted for 2-4 day prior to full af, I produce enough prog to ov but it drops of signifiicantly 5 days later thus implantation is nearly always impossible as the linning is already beginning to break down. I took cyclogest 400 twice daily from 3 days post ov until perod was due tested and the if neg stop the cyclogest to allow a full bleed. if it is positive I continue to well in to the pg ( this pg I will continue to 28 weeks then ween off this is due to having a threatened labour at 28 weeks with my DD ) progesterone issues are also related to early or pre term labours

you all should take a look at the thread I mentioned above it is now long but has many successes with this style of protocol that is adjusted according to personal circumstances

good luck to all

FEW


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## BobbyS

Thanks FEW, congrats on your pregnancy  

We can see the link between the spotting and progesterone (very helpful thread btw) but how do we convince our doctors? They always dismiss my opinions but every month I get strong preg symptoms from 2dpo (caused by EPF secretion) which suddenly completely disappear about 5-6 days before AF is due and then I start spotting... my doctor doesn't think that progesterone pessaries make any difference so won't prescribe them, does anyone know if it is possible to get cyclogest without going through the GP?


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## FEW

Bobby 


this is a tough one and it may bbe worth contacting the royal londons m/c clinic for advice  or getting hold of their study to take to your doc, or you can consider changing docs of course and do your reserch locally with the gp practices and try and find a gp with a special interest in fertility many surgeries have one or womens health of course

the other option is to be creative with the truth cyclogest is also prescibed for pms in the secondn half od a cycle!! have a look at the cyclogest litriture they send out with the medication and then tell your doc your sypmtoms and have it prescibed for pms !! I know not honest but it may be a means to an end but you have to feel comfortable.

for me I went to the gp put my case forward ( I had 3 sets of blood confirming my prog dipped in the second half of my cycle all levels taken 7 days post ov) and obviuosly spotting and bleeding in previous pregnancy's and of course 5 m/c my gp asked advice from the local fertility team at the hospital and the consultant agreed it was worth a go so I was lucky.
go in prepared and put your aguement forward also don't forget to suggest that this kind of tretament is far far cheaper than the local primary care trust paying for ivf for you and of course you can always offer to pay for it privately via your doc ( it is not expensive and asda does it cheap!)

good luck

FEW


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## BobbyS

Thank you! I am sure everyone will find that very helpful    I know I am going to make an appointment to see a different doctor next week and will put forward my case!!

xx


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## hopeful2012

Really useful information.

I am going to ask my consultant for more tests.  I have had my bloods done 7 days after I ovulate and they showed a progesterone of 53.  So I definetly ovulate - however on the day the bloods were done I was already spotting blood So I am not sure whether I can put it down to a low/ dip in preogesterone - however I will mention it and see if they will try me on progesterone anyway?

Will report back at the end of November after my appointment.

Hopeful


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## hopeful2012

Hi Lanta

I am doing ok - just a bit frustrated.  I am trying to stay positive and calm but a few close people to me have just given birth and I am feeling very envious.

Is especially hard as you know as the doctors don't seem to take the spotting seriously and I just feel that I am getting no where.  I have written out a list of questions for my consultant and done a lot of research to take with me - so fingers crossed they take notice.

Good luck with your change of clinic - will be thinking of you.

Hopeful xx


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## BobbyS

Just a quick update from me...

I had a 3D SIS scan last week as part of my IVF treatment and they think they have found a polyp which is probably why I have the prementrual spotting and why I haven't got pregnant (weirdly last month was the first month since April I didn't get 5 days of spotting). I have a hysteroscopy on Thursday to investigate and remove any potential polyp found ( all of which I am self-funding).

I'm very angry at the NHS doctors for not investigating the spotting sooner when I have been telling them something was wrong since April. The fertility guy that I was first referred to wanted me to go straight to tx without investigations, luckily I didn't go with him otherwise I would have wasted a lot of money!

Anyone else have a diagnosis of their prementrual spotting since Oct?

Bobbyx


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## hopeful2012

Dear All

Really interested to hear your situations with this.

I have only been tested for Prog on day 21 which should that I had ovulated.  I will push for further blood tests when I next see my consultant.  I am with NHS so things are slow however I am planning to go private for some further tests as the consultant at the NHS does not seem interested in taking the time to work up my case and just seems to want to pass me off to Herts & essex Fertility clinic as quickly as possible for ICSI.

Don't get me wrong I am thrilled to be getting a referral but am worried that if things are not investigated properly that I will not be getting the best chance at the ICSI.  My biggest worry is that no more investigations will be done and that I will start the ICSI and that I will just start bleeding like i normally do about 5 - 7 days before AF.  If this happens then I am at risk of bleeding during the 2WW and could lose the embryo.  

I just want to ensure I have the best start and chance at the ICSI.  I am having a scan on the 17th Jan 2011 so hopefully this will shed some light on the problems if not I am going to seek second opinion elsewhere as I am loosing faith in my current consultant.

Hopeful


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## Lanta

Hi ladies

i posted on here a few months back and am really interested to hear if you finally get answers to the pre-menstrual spotting.  It drives me crazy too and generally get about 3-8 days of it before AF. Consultants assure me not to worry but I can't help but thinking it's stopping me getting pregnant.  The only time it dosen't happen is when I'm doing tx and take progesterone suppositories or gel.

Bobby - hope everything goes well with your hysto tomorrow.  It would be great to get an explanation after all this time - and at least polyps are easy to remove.  I see you've taken Humira - me too! Am doing a blood test tomorrow to see if it's worked! have you had your  results yet?

Hopeful - glad to see you are starting to get investigations done.  i don't blame you for wanting to go private rather than with NHS - the waiting around and their reluctance to investigate further is SO frustrating

I'm just about to start treatment with ARGC so will see if they can shed any light on things....maybe they'll find something when they do the hysto too.

Good luck ladies

Zoe
x


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## hopeful2012

FEW 

I see where the thinking about progesterone comes from but on the day I started spotting my progesterone count was 53 which I have been told is high and that as the spotting is already present when the progesterone count is this high they are not linked.  What counts were your progesterone at?

I did read the information you posted. It was very informative.

Its just so hard to get any one to listen to you and to take the matter seriously - anyway I have my fingers crossed that my clinic will help - i have my first consultation in a couple of weeks to discuss starting my first go at ICSI.

I have sent to the clinic all the information about the spotting so I am hoping they can help me.

Hopeful x


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## BobbyS

Hopeful, it might be other factors causing the spotting, hopefully your clinic will do some investigations before ICSI. I had the 3D SIS - saline scan then a hysteroscopy, it wasn't a polyp they found in the end it was some scar tissue (which was causing infertility). Some clinics will go straight to tx without thorough investigations, make sure you ask for these...

I don't know yet whether the scar tissue was causing the spotting because I havent had a natural AF since then (it was brought on by stopping primulot) but the AF I did have certainly had less old blood before and after... Am doing IUI end of next week ( ) but I am still going to ask for cycolgest just in case - my understanding is that it can't do any harm even if progesterone levels are OK. 

Good luck and let us know how you get on  

Bobbyx


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## HippyChicky

I suffer from this as well and all along I've thought it was down to very low progesterone but all blod tests say my levels are fine. I'm going to aski my clinic if they can prescribe me another box of Cyclogest in addition to the box I already have ready for this tx, as so far I've only been on 1 400mg pessary a day compared to the 2 I hear most people take.


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## Mrs Rock

Hello ladies

Very interested to see this thread.  For about 6 years I had as much as 6-7 days of pre menstrual spotting every month and it drove me crazy.  It felt like my period lasted up to 14 days some months.

I had my progesterone tested 7 days after ovulation and it was fine.

Like so many of you, I told every Dr I saw about I and they all just said it was nothing to worry about.

After my 1st failed IVF I started bleeding 10 days post EC and didn't get anywhere near test day.  On the strength of this my consultant recommended a hysteroscopy in case of a polyp or fibroid causing the bleeding.  The hysteroscopy was normal and no polyp or fibriod found.  I did bleed heavily for about 6 days after the hysteroscopy which gave me a bit of a shock, but was told this was nothing to worry about.

What has surprised me is that fom the time of the hysteroscopy, the pre menstrual spotting completely stopped.  That was 15 months ago now.  Every month now I have a day of proper light flow followed by 2-3 days heavy and then that is about it.  My periods have completely changed and they are so much better.  I also get to test date without bleeding although have only had FETs since, so not sure what would happen on a fresh IVF.  It is as though the hyst somehow gave my lining a good clear out and I'm so glad I had it even if I'm still not a TTC success story yet.  I live in hope!

Hope that is useful info to some of you x


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## Mrs Rock

Just remembered something else to tell you in case it's useful.  Prior to the hysteroscopy I had tons of acupuncture, every 2 weeks for about 8 months, in which the acupuncturist tried to address the spotting and was convinced he could make it better.  It never had any effect at all.  I didn't mind too much as had already been seeing him for a long time for pain relief from a back injury.  But it was notable that he was so sure acupuncture could improve the pre menstrual bleeding but, for me at least, it didn't.


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