# Concerns about DH and his work!



## weemoofrazz (Sep 6, 2013)

Hi all

We are now less than 2 weeks away from approval panel and have already been linked with a sibling group of 2 boys. I had a conversation this morning with my DH about introductions and his 2 weeks paternity leave and he informed me that he would have to check his emails and answer important calls during the all important first 2 weeks that the children would be placed with us  

Now I know my DH's work is important and by the nature of his job and his responsibility I can understand his concerns regarding having to have a month off, so I said he would be able to work a decent amount during the 2 weeks intro's though I told him he will be knackered! I did however request no checking emails and no answering the phone on the two weeks paternity leave, he told me he couldn't do that and that the kids would just have to get used it as he does have to work long hours  

I am now really questioning his commitment to the whole process and I am worried that he really just 'doesn't get it' when it comes to how important those first two weeks of the children being placed will be, especially for him in relation to bonding etc. I told him that I was going to contact our SW regarding this so that he could talk to him about the importance of focusing on nothing else but the kids in those first few critical weeks. 

Am I being to hard? Over reacting maybe? I told him that if he couldn't give two weeks of his life to fully commit to his future family then I certainly don't want to proceed. Right now I just don't know what to do


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Is he self emplyed? What happens if you go away for a holiday? Does the phone get switched off then?

I understand that he needs to keep on top of work but it's really hard trying to juggle intros and work, especially with a sibling group.


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## weemoofrazz (Sep 6, 2013)

Hi beachgirl

No my DH isn't self employed and as far as I am concerned the phone will not be coming on holiday with us! He only changed to this job 2 years ago and aside from a long wk end break in Portugal we haven't been away anywhere to test the phone issue! 

I am just wholly frustrated with him at present and the fact that he just doesn't seem to see how tiring, emotionally draining but also how important the month of intros and initial placement will be.....ahhh men!


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## babas (Oct 23, 2013)

Did the social worker not discuss this with him during your home study? I would get your SW to speak to him and see if that helps?


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## weemoofrazz (Sep 6, 2013)

babas

Our SW did of course discuss this with him during home study and he did of course say that he could get the time off and it wouldn't be an issue. That's why I am so 'out at sea' with this new revelation that he will have to do some work whilst off on his paternity leave and definitely during intro's. I know his phone can go 5-6 times a day when he is on a day off and it does interrupt the flow of your day. I am worried it will send all the wrong signals to the LO's that 'daddy' has other priorities, and I know it will definitely raise my blood pressure! 

I am going to try to have a proper chat to him tomorrow night about it all, I am working tomorrow and don't want to risk ending up like a frog!


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## Loopylou29 (Mar 4, 2013)

I think he is under estimating just how tiring intros are, both physically and mentally especially when there are 2 los involved. You will have full days at the fc including being there for when they wake up right through to bedtime. I've no doubt if he was dealing with work issues constantly this would be reported back to sw. 
Plus its not fair on you to be worrying about intros while he is stressed about work and not fully focused on intros.
I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but having done intros twice there is no way I could have dealt with work as well, there was just to much going on.


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## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

I think the issue is changed expectations.  My DH owns a company ( one he set up obviously) so I have always known he'll have to take some calls during intros. He'll ignore as much as he can but realistically two weeks of total silence from DH would be risking bankruptcy for us. People will know he's away and can't see them but in a crisis will need the reassurance of him.  That is a part of our marriage always will be. 

DH commitment and hard work is what will enable me to be at home for as long as I choose and me being at home is what makes him able to run a business.  This works for us but everyone needs to find their own dynamic.  If he's always lead you to believe that work wouldn't be an issue then you need to have a big chat because it isn't fair to suddenly change the agreement.  However one thing I would be wary of is what pressure are work putting on him?  Just because a friends husband ended up not being able to take any paternity leave when she gave birth because there was a big contract going through at a critical stage and her husband was told if he went on paternity and it didn't go through he wouldn't have a job to come back to.  People can say it's illegal etc but these big companies have huge teams of lawyers and you'd never win. Not knowing what your husband does it's hard to comment.  But I'm trying to say is if he's been committed so far then there may be other forces in this stressing him out a lot. 


Good luck x x


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

Weemoofrazz, I completely understand your concern on this issue.

I think you just need to speak to your husband and find out if his work commitments are "real", in which case they need to be worked around, or if he simply hasn't got his priorities straight or doesn't realise what is going to be involved. Having two children placed is a _massive_ thing and could be all consuming. Having said that, there are single adopters who do it and manage it, so it's certainly not a complete no go if your husband can't avoid his work commitments.

I have often felt in the past that my husband wrongly prioritised his work. He has always been quite honest about it. He'd say "I'll need to take calls at x time" and I'd question the need, and he has always been honest with me about when these are work expectations, and when these are his own priorities, because of the importance he places on doing his job well. At times I think he got that wrong, certainly when we were having fertility treatment he got a little lost in work at one point and it caused us some real problems, and we had issues again after our first child was placed when he really was using work to avoid home, but we worked through them I think, just about, and we're wobbling along OK despite having two young kids, one of whom has some fairly big problems at times.

When we had our second child placed not long after our first, I was torn about whether it was the right decision. I felt that he put far too much pressure on me to say yes, when it was something he really really wanted, and something I wasn't sure was right for either child. Having said that, he was also completely honest with me, in that I needed to be sure that I would be able to cope, because there would be times when he wouldn't be home for bedtime and I would need to be able to deal with both kids without him for large chunks of time. I'm not sure that we got the balance right, but we did both knew where the other stood, and in the longer term he changed his job to one which is a lot more child friendly and allows him to work from home if we absolutely need it, although it's not ideal and certainly not something he can do regularly.

That's a lot of waffle for where I was going, but I guess the real point is that you both need to know where the other stands, in order to make a decision. If his work commitments are going to interfere and you don't think you can pick up the slack, a single placement may be better for you both in the long run.

On the other hand if he just doesn't realise what's involved, a kick up the backside may be appropriate.

Best wishes,

Wyxie xx


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## Daddyboo (Paul) (Dec 24, 2012)

Please don't label all men this way.

My workplace is very flexible, in fact I come in to work at 7am so that I can get home for 4pm and spend as much time as possible with LO.
I even work late on a Monday (7am-6pm) to build up time to take an afternoon/day off later in the week/next week.

I'm not as bad as your husband, I work around 40hrs/wk but work-life balance is very important to me, especially as I was part of this tough journey too.  

As it is, we feel that I'm roughly 6 weeks behind on development and attachment with LO - she speaks 'baby' to me but is very adult with mummy, she clings to me wherever I go but leaves mummy alone.

Your DH is going to find it very tough to be away from home, and those couple of weeks being with your children are the most precious you have.  He needs to relish that time and get involved with their lives or he's going to find out he will have a terrible relationship with them.

Fancy ignoring your children to take a work call?  As that is what it will come down to. 

- I have experince of this as my dad home-studied for a PhD when I was between the ages of 5 and 15!  He snook away and sat in a boxroom until he had finally finished 10 years later (we saw him at tea-time but that was all), after the PhD we still only saw him after 6pm for a few houes as he often went to bed at 7:30-8pm.  
He has realised that our relationship suffered though (20 years later) - we didn't speak for 3 years but now we get on much better, still awkward at times though.

I hope he sees sense and comes round to the correct way of being a parent.


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## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

Paul while I understand that you are being supportive and I agree with your sentiment I feel I need to defend my husband. He is not a bad person or uncommitted father in fact I have can't think of anyone who has more commitment to his family - our and lo's sws always comment on this.  However my husband has to take those calls so the people like you can clock off after 40 hours a week knowing that their salary will be paid every month.  My husband has not only our mortgage me and our girls to worry about but the mortgages and children of the people he employs who rely on him to win and complete work in a very competitive market place so they have jobs and can support their families.  

I'm not moaning because this is what I chose on marrying him and I love him more than anything but it really upsets me when people criticise men in my husbands position without realising the massive pressure both psychological and physical ( in terms of hours worked etc) he takes on. I understand the posters worries completely  and I hope my response didn't come across as dismissive or unsympathetic as that isn't the case at all. I think about all these issues all the time,  myself and my husband and I have discussed them for years.

Being at the top of a small business is incredibly stressful and there is no one to step into the gap and cover unlike in big companies.  My husband has huge respect for men who arrange work round their families like you and  would love to work with the flexibility and number of hours you do but it would leave us and a number of his employees unable to pay the bills if he did.


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## becs40 (Apr 9, 2013)

Diydiva my husband is in a very similar situation although thankfully most of the time he can have the flexibility in his work and he can do the majority of what he needs to at home. The responsibility he feels for his staff is near enough equal status with us even though some don't deserve this loyalty or have an appreciation of what he does to keep them in jobs but that's a different issue.  I think there will always be families with one parent more taken up with work than they'd like but in my opinion it's how they use the time with their families when they have it that is important. If they're fully committed and make as much time as they can for family and use that time well rather than just "being" there it is going a long way to compensate for the absence. Your DH sounds just like this and as you say it's not something new it's how it's always been and you as a family have discussed how you deal and cope with it.

Weemoo we're a long way from where you're at currently so I may be getting it completely wrong but I wondered if the enormity of all this has suddenly hit DH and he's uncertain he'll be able to cope so he's setting work up to be an escape if he needs to? You may find once intros start that he settles into it and the work thing doesn't become an issue? I know that's exactly the sort of tactic my DH would come up with if he's insecure and I know many men really worry about children in general because they just assume that as women discuss being maternal etc it all just clicks into place, and they worry it won't for them. 

Good luck and I hope you get to the bottom of it. It must be a very scary time for both of you but exciting too.


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## Loopylou29 (Mar 4, 2013)

Diy Diva,

Your dh is self employed and it is therefore understandable that he would have to be avaliable. The dh of the op is not self employed and there should be someone else who can take those calls/emails etc. From what you've said about your dh I bet he wouldn't dream of making calls to one of his employees if they were off unless there were unavoidable circumstances and I'm guessing he'd be apolgetic formaking that call. No one is that iindispensable at work unless of course you are self employed but even then there will be times your not available.


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## becs40 (Apr 9, 2013)

Loopylou it's not always as clear cut as that. My DH is not self employed he is the managing director of a small company. He was employed to start the business and develop it. As it is a small company run very tightly there are no staff who can step into his job. He deals with as much as he can before an absence and other staff can take on a small amount if what he does but he still can't walk away completely. So just because he's not self employed it doesn't mean he can't have the same work pressures as Diydiva. There are many in this situation.


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## Handstitchedmum (Mar 24, 2013)

And not all of them are men! ;-)


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## Handstitchedmum (Mar 24, 2013)

I make no secret of the fact that in my household, HSDad is going to be the primary carer.  It is a joint investment in our family -- I have the better career trajectory and will eventually be able to fully financially support having HSDad at home to take care of the house and the child(ren). On top of that, though, HSDad and I have continued conversations about what we can do and what we would like to do, as a family. 

I work from home, so I will need to learn how to balance work and home. I will need to take calls at different hours, to keep the business going like DIYDiva's husband, but also, in my case, to keep people safe.  HSDad understands this and I trust him to feedback when it isn't working.

My recommendation is continued, open conversations about what your needs are and how you can work together to meet them. Not every couple will have a dichotomy like HSDad and me, and nor should they.


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## Flash123 (Jan 29, 2006)

Hiya weemoo, I totally understand where you are coming from and I totally get your concerns. I think at some point prior to little man coming home I have experienced them all too. My dh is also self employed and sometimes his priorities do become blurred. Like yours Diva, he employs several people and takes his responsibilities towards them as an employer very seriously (its not just our mortgage he is responsible for) but that does not mean in the slightest that he isnt commited to being a father or to us as a family. he has an excellent work life balance - working 10-4' he can come home whenever i need him to, can take time off whenever and is there for us 100%. however, there is a flip side to this. when clients need him he needs to be able to speak to them ( and yes sadly that does sometimes include when we are on holiday) If he doesnt take a call and sort someones problems they can be wolloped with penalties costing £1000's . in the present economic climate i dont think i need to ellaborate on the consequences this can have on the person that needs to pay it. dh couldnt live with himself if he thought someone could lose their home beacuse he didnt take a call - and yes this can and has happened.
Prior to introductions many people had told us how all consuming they and the following weeks would be and TBH we both thought 'yeh, they can't be that bad'. How wrong were we!!!!! My dh also said he would need to take calls and check e-mails and he really believed he would have the time and the mental capacity to do so. I'll be honest with you, he did take a few and it HONESTLY wasn't a problem but they were emergency calls as he wouldn't have been capable of anything more. But he learnt the hard way and I just sat with an 'I told you so' look on my face  

During the 2 weeks after placement we found that we needed time apart and needed to work as a tag team in order to give each other a break. Perhaps you could  explain how you feel, wait to see your little ones routines and set up a mutually agreeable time when he is 'allowed' to check them. That then is his 'free' time and its back to daddyhood. 

I hope you find a solution soon - if you do perhaps you should bottle it and start selling xxx


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## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

The expectations of modern  society have a lot to answer for.  Although mobile phones are very useful they are also responsible for a lot of stress and pressure!  Weemoo really hope you manage to have a real heart to heart with DH over this. A lot of good ideas have been suggested for the cause of what's going on for DH good luck getting to the bottom of it all. X x


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## Flash123 (Jan 29, 2006)

Like you said diva, their commitment and dedication is one of the reasons why we luv 'em x


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## scoobydooby (Nov 5, 2013)

As a male adopter I feel a need to step in and defend my fellow men  

We are about to start intro's for our second child, this is only 7 months on from adopting our first, so I presume you can all understand how an employer might not be too favourable of this considering nobody could feasibly give birth to 2 children so close together. Besides which, this time I am taking a minimum of 3 weeks off, and right at the start of holiday season.
I work for a small family run business but I am senior management, there is nobody who can fill my shoes so to speak when I am not there, and if my job does not get done, the company suffers. Yes you could argue that the owners should get somebody else in to provide cover when I am not there, but that is another salary that the company would struggle to pay in this current climate, and as a result we would all suffer. I don't answer calls or emails when I am off but there has been the rare occasion when I have had to.

Let me try to explain my stance on all this without coming across in a sexist or patronising manner. For an expectant father, we share the same excitement as our wives / partners, but from my own point of view I have been waking in the middle of every night since we were asked to adopt lo's sibling worrying about how we could afford it, but also how work might view me asking for yet more time off so soon after adopting our first knowing it will leave them in the lurch again. Its ok to say 'well that's their concern' but its not. Without my job our bills wont get paid, my wife is self-employed and as such is not entitled to a single penny from the government in either paternity pay or working tax credits, all we get is child benefit.
if I'm not in work we might not secure valuable new business, and then every other employee suffers as a result. I would not be taking my job seriously if I had the attitude of 'I don't care, I'm entitled to this time off and I'm taking it'. As it happens when I approached my boss with the dates for intros I was told I could not take it as he was on holiday, no point arguing about it I know the rules that both myself and him cannot be off at the same time and he had already booked and paid for his holiday. What if we were expecting a birth child? my mother in law threw back at me when she was told about it, well we're not and unfortunately there is no law that states an employer has to give time off for adopting, so far as I am aware. But even if there was I would still have seeked to work around his holiday as I want my employer on side. As it is we have put intro's back by 2 weeks, yes I am absolutely gutted about it, lo no.2 has just started to walk so we could be missing out on some big milestones in those 2 weeks, but when all said and done we have the rest of our lives to spend together.

So for anyone out there thinking that men put their jobs before their family, please see the wider picture! Us men don't really tell our wives / partners everything as you probably all know, there's lots of worries running around in our tiny little heads that we just don't want to worry you with as you already have enough to worry about. But our jobs do play a vital part in the quality of life we provide for our family and like it or lump it, we cant just flick the 'off switch' and forget about it.


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## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

Scooby you are a man like my DH and I know he to shields me from a lot of his stress. I don't think you sound sexist at all. Being the main or only bread winner brings a lot of stress regardless of gender.  Good luck with number two. So sorry you had to delay it's devastating but totally unavoidable.


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## Daddyboo (Paul) (Dec 24, 2012)

I'd like to apologise if I cause any offence - I'm not that good with words, especially when I've just changed my pain med patch.

I wasn't attacking other husbands/partners, you should all know me by now that I would never do such a thing.

I was referring to the OP's statement of 


> I am just wholly frustrated with him at present and the fact that he just doesn't seem to see how tiring, emotionally draining but also how important the month of intros and initial placement will be.....ahhh men!


I was asking a hypothertical question, I wondered if the OP's DH would take a work call at a vital moment in his family life or ignore it?

Yes, we all bring some work home. I have done it on occassion and although I work for a large company it doesn't mean that someone else can take over the work I do. I've made myself an invaluable resource, I have specific specialties that others in my team do not have.

If I wanted to I could work 80+ hours per week (there's anough work to do that for the next 25 years), and get paid accordingly for it, but I don't. 
I have to think about my health and then my LO, it's not the best situation but I refuse to put myself in a position of stress taking over my life.

If that means I will never be an MD or Director then so be it. Yes it will be harder for some families to commit all that time, but I was asked to take a minimum of 3 weeks leave during intros/placement, 2 weeks of that was Stat Paternity, after being taxed it may as well have been unpaid leave.

The OP is describing the time between Intros and Placement and not the rest of there lives, surely for those first 3-4 weeks it's worth the investment, especially with two of them, if you can afford to do so?

I would have taken longer but we just couldn't afford it.


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## scoobydooby (Nov 5, 2013)

I don't think you've caused any offence at all Paul, everyone's circumstances are different. Its what we make of them that counts  
There's nothing that breaks my heart more than every day hearing my lo say to mummy 'dadda work again' when I leave in a morning   but I make damn sure I come home for lunch and I don't work a minute late at night now. I've used all my leave for this year on panel meetings, LAC reviews, health visitor appointments & contact meetings and every other damn meeting we've been asked to attend, for BOTH children, and its not even finished yet! I dread to think what's going to be said when I have to ask for more time off for yet more LAC reviews etc once lo number 2 is home, but one things for certain it will be unpaid leave   I've not had a day off bar Christmas since lo number 1 came home last year due to my holidays running from October to September and I'll bet that AO's come through before my next holiday entitlement starts, sods law!

Put it this way, weekends are certainly made the most of in this house!


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

Scoobydoo, the situation with holiday is one my husband found himself in last year and it was a bit of a nightmare.  We had two children placed fairly close together and the meetings for both of them together with assessment meetings just ate up our holiday.  It wasn't helped my SS changing meetings and not telling us, so he took needless time off which was spent waiting at home for people who didn't turn up, instead of doing stuff with the kids.  It's really hard.  My husband didn't go to the LAC meetings for our second child so he could save some holiday to spend with the children.

My children, my daughter, has enough problems that me returning to work in the medium term is not going to be feasible, as much as I would like to.  We are now completely dependent on my husband's wage and while he couldn't be sacked for not checking his emails at night, not taking work calls at the weekend, etc, his commitment to his job and ability at his job are the the things which makes him highly employable in his industry, and which has meant the two times the studios he's worked for have gone under, he's walked straight into a new job which will pay the bills.  We need him to be able to at least keep his current level of income to allow me to remain a stay at home Mum, as a minimum.  His commitments to work are in our interests too.  Sometimes he can't be home for bedtime, which is really hard.  Fortunately, he can do a lot of his job from home so he tends to come home early and put the kids to bed and then log onto work remotely in the evenings when he needs to check emails and talk to people in other time zones.  It does put extra pressure on us as a family, on me, and at times the kids do come second to a phone call or email because something needs to be sorted straight away.  This is far preferable than me being forced to return to work, much as I would love to, because our son (only 9 months with us) is not ready for that.  Our daughter, who has been with us nearly two years now, is at times a very troubled and unhappy little girl with some real problems, isn't even close to coping with the idea of Mummy going back to work and it would be really harmful for her if I had to.  Also, very hard to manage around the various support meetings that I have for her, and which look set to increase.

Sometimes we just need to make the best of things, but I think it's important to know up front what each partner is going to be available and willing to do when children arrive.


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## Daddyboo (Paul) (Dec 24, 2012)

Wyxie, what did your husband do during Intros and the first few weeks of placement?

Did he take time off and leave work 'at work' or bring it home with him?

I only ask, as them first few weeks are so emotionally draining having to reflect on that days events, I'd be amazed any working partner can do anything else other than a quick chat and then sleep.
Then when the child comes home, you are just as exhausted for 2-3 weeks until you get used to the long hours and pace.

I was also messed around with holdays, mine run January to December and I had saved 12 days at the end of 2013 to use during Intros, I couldn't even carry this over for January 2014 and so I ended up using a lot of my annual allowance up front - I only get 23 days!


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

With Wyxling's intros his work were very supportive. They actually gave him a third week off, which we did really need, and he made a handful of phone calls but that was about it. Given his position at the time and where they were in their project that was significant. We ended up with him having three weeks off. We had the life appreciation day on the Monday of the first week, planning meeting and then met Wyxling on the Tuesday, and she came home the following Wednesday. He was then off for the remainder of that week and all the following week.

By the time we got to Bladelet's intros he was actually working his notice period with only six weeks left in the job, and he only had two weeks off. He was available to work during the intros. It might sound odd given he was about to leave, but there aren't a huge number of firms which do what he does in our local area, and at the time they didn't want him to go and had been clear they would have him back immediately if he wanted to go back. We didn't want him to burn any bridges by him disappearing off the face of the earth a few weeks before the end of the next major project (neither of our intros fell at good times for his work!). He had almost no holiday to extend his leave with as most of his holiday allowance had already been used on meetings about Wyxling, and then the meetings we needed to go to in order to get Bladelet. We had if I remember rightly, the life appreciation day on the Wednesday, planning meeting on the Thursday, and met Bladelet on the Friday. The introductions lasted for 10 days, which was long for a young baby but we had Wyxling to take into account. Bladelet ultimately came on on the Monday. Hubby actually worked one day _during_ the introductions, at our SW suggestion, which was a day where I just drove up to see Bladelet for a couple of hours, so that he could put an extra day on to the end of his leave. Bladelet came home on the Monday, and he had to go back to work on the Thursday. He then did four four day weeks using up the last of his annual leave. The first few weeks Bladelet was at home were a complete nightmare, largely because of Wyxling's reaction to a sibling being placed and her little world getting upended again.

While we _really_ needed more time after Bladelet's placement before he went back to work, I don't honestly think hubby's work commitments during the introductions in any way interfered with our son forming a bond with him. His work commitments do make things a lot harder for me, but that's for us to work out and I understand the situation, even though I often don't like it. I think during the first six months of Wyxling's placement hubby hid in work to avoid the situation at home which was something he couldn't fix, and therefore something he found incredibly difficult. I don't think that's something he does any more, and he does his best to balance work and home, although our family life is very difficult for him at times.


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