# Moving On General Chat



## Pol

Hello

I wondered if anyone else would like to join on a thread to put together ideas of ways to socialise, meet people, generally enjoy life and contribute to society in places where things aren't child-centred and that whole 'so do you have a family' question isn't the be-all-and-end-all.

I've been seriously renovating my life over the last few months.  We moved house shortly before first starting trying for a family about 2 1/2 years ago, and as I still work in London and most of my friends are a long way away, it's been hard to make new friends, esp as a non-parent when 'everyone else' seems to be at a completely different stage from me.  So these are some of the things I'm trying out at the moment, and I'd love to hear what everyone else does socially etc  - I thought we could swap ideas!

- I've taken up Morris Dancing.  So far have been to 4 sessions and have had such a good laugh, and noone has mentioned children at all.  The group (technically called a 'side') is mixed aged, although mostly older than me, very energetic, very sociable and I'm loving it - plus you get some exercise into the bargain!
- I've applied to become a school governor - one way of being involved with children, but using my skills specifically as a non-parent-working-person who can see things 'from outside'.  The application process takes a while, so I'll let you know how I get on and whether it's something that feels comfortable or whether I'm made to feel 'different' / unwelcome ...
- I've become a volunteer with the MS Society - the volunteers are a mixed bunch, and again quite a lot of people older than me (I guess those are the people with time) but the local coordinator is really keen to get more young people involved as people who are diagnosed are usually in the 20-40 age range so find it easier to relate to people in that range when it comes to support / advice etc.  Again - I'll let you know how I get on.  Bascially I was keen to have somethign to do with a chronic illness to use some of the experience I've gained from IF (ie the need for support, detailed medical information, ideas of ways of accessing resources, friendship and advice), but didn't want it to be too close to home, and happened upon the MS Society as they were advertising in my local volunteer centre...

Jx


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## Yamoona

Maybe we could you use this thread to share our attempts of moving on. I took up learning French this time last year and although I am rubbish I keep going as I enjoy it and have met new friends. I am also about to undertake a course specialising treating infertility through reflexology as I, like you, have a lot to offer people in this position and can understand what they are going through. Also I have started going to the gym more and I am going skiing for the first time in March.

One friend of mine told me that her children love to see me as they see me as their glamorous adult friend and are fascinated by me. She said that all of our other friends are just mums and dads to their children but because we don't have any they see us differently and take more interest. I had never looked at it like that before and was interested to hear this point of view.

xx


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## flipper

Count me in ladies!

We took up salsa and although we salsa with the sensuality and passion of artheric daleks, we enjoy it.  We've also taken up travel in a big way as we two bangs for our buck, one in the excitement and planning and the other in the doing (and it has the added Brucie Bonus of really irritating our friends with kids  )


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## Let

Count me in also. 

We have just taken up golf. Thought we might meet people with time on their hands ie non parents. Also they appear to have a good social life. The only problem is that  we are rubbish !!


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## emmag

Well, in a total act of rebellion against a) the years of self-imposed social exile many of us have experienced and b) having a body that won't do as it's told, I decided to get my kit off on stage and took up burlesque dancing. It's going well and I'm very excited to say I just came home from performing in LA and Las Vegas!


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## jq

Follow that!

As someone who has always benefitted from volunteering I have to recommend that route. For a long while post tx I chaired the trustee board of a charity for families in crisis. (Done a lot of other volunteering since before the IF years too.) I am coming back to that thread of my life again now as I consider becoming a counsellor.

My horse was a wonderful part of my life and after giving up on tx I decided I had time for another horse and so bred from my darling mare. I saw the foal born and it has been really rewarding to see her grow and train her towards competative dressage.

There are many options, I think for me it was about following a passion I might not have had time for before I started out on trying for a child. It is not about an alternative, more about reclaiming other dreams.

LoL

Jq xxx


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## emcee

Well you all see what I do here as my volunteering bit  

I also do some voluntary stuff for the ectopic pregnancy trust, have been a volunteer for them for many years now.

I decided to learn reflexology and reiki last year - completed the reiki and am about to complete the reflex as I enjoy working with people and helping them relax... am still deciding over the next course I am going to take - aside from that there is motorbiking, a great way to meet people and socialise, and not usually any kids around (apart from big kids aged 40 like myself)!

Loving the sound of dancing, think I'll leave it to those more agile though  

Emcee xxx


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## emmag

emcee said:


> Loving the sound of dancing, think I'll leave it to those more agile though
> 
> Emcee xxx


Well I have to be careful because I have arthritis! Mostly it's not a problem but basically I'm 10 years older and 100% more arthritic than most of the other dancers, but who cares?!


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## Myownangel

THis is a great thread - I'm finding out so much about everyone. And seeing that we have a lot in common. I too am a reflexologist and reiki practitioner. Although I am not doing it professionally at the moment. I think my way of coping has been to set challenges (you already know about my great trek around Mont Blanc and the book writing). I think socialising has its difficulties with a lot of friends popping out sproglets - I'm lucky that I have a hubby who has a lot of shared interests with me - we keep each other company.
One thing I do that has led to a new social circle is creative writing. I have met a great bunch of people - all adults! (It's adult education after all the clue is in the title!) We go down the pub - and even have the odd gathering in our homes. Many of them are older than me and some do have children - but it is not an issue really because there is always something else to talk about.
I am so envious of you and your horses jq. I LOVE horses. I fell off one a few years ago and bruised my pelvis (yowch) and it's kind of put me off riding. I'd love one as a pet - but dh has drawn the line on that. He says you can't have a horse as a pet - but I disagree. I just love their temperament and being with them. They are beautiful animals.
Bernie xxx


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## irisheyes

I finally went back and did an art class and my dh got back in to golf again.It is refreshing being in the golf club for dinner and not having people talk about babies all the time(although the babies do slip in with parents sometimes on family outings!!)

I have thought about doing a counselling class. I am working with a girl who is now going thru the same if issues and she says It has been so helpful knowing someone else has been thru it all.


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## emcee

emmag said:


> Well I have to be careful because I have arthritis! Mostly it's not a problem but basically I'm 10 years older and 100% more arthritic than most of the other dancers, but who cares?!


Ditto - I have arthritis too - I have to wear a leg brace when I'm on my feet for long periods. Had to laugh in work this morning when one of my colleagues said in disgust 'you're not still riding your motorbike are you'? the hell I am, if I can manage standing on my feet all day/night for 8-10 hours lifting heavy stuff at work then I can blimmin well manage to ride my beloved bike too! 



Myownangel said:


> THis is a great thread - I'm finding out so much about everyone. And seeing that we have a lot in common. I too am a reflexologist and reiki practitioner. Although I am not doing it professionally at the moment.


Crikey Bernie, small world and no such thing as coincidences me thinks  You are amazing and inspiring!

Love to all
Emcee x


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## moggy3

Am so pleased this has been brought up-just in the last couple of days myself and my DH have been discussing our lack of social lives/friends  

He plays snooker 1 evening a week, at the moment I am trying to decide what hobbies/interests I should try...

Am definately thinking salsa or possibly line dancing   with the intention of having a great time, meeting new friends (hopefully) or aren't child-obsessed and getting some exercise all at the same time.

Im fairly good at badminton so DH and I will try and play once a week-I might look at any local clubs as well.

Also thinking of something like drawing/painting at a local club or a nearby college in an evening-I did pottery about 18 months ago and loved it.

I think its just a case of seeing whats out there and giving it a go.

Maybe as well if any of us on here live near another member whos 'moving on' there's a possible social outlet there as well.
As my profile says, Im in east sussex so if anyone else is in my neck of the woods-let me know


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## emcee

We do have meet ups from time to time... the last one fell flat on its face unfortunately as we were all busy at various times and couldn't get together at the same time!  

I think we are fairly widely scattered around the place - I'm feeling fairly scatty around this place at the moment, think I need to go to bed!   

xxx


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## bell

Hi Ladies

We are finding it hard with finding friends that will accept us at the moment, but that been going on since starting treatment, we went on holiday and met some really nice people she is from England but lives in geneva and her dh is italian and we got on so well they are older than us but we had a great laugh so we are spending a week with them and them with us which is really nice, but i said to dh need to find hobbies to keep our minds of everything, he wants to do clay pigeon shotting and i want to do fencing,

so we have made a decision to do that, but i think its a great idea to give your self a challange keep you feeling young, we ( DH )  also want a dog a cocker spaniel but i have said i want to get the travel out of my system first not fair on the dog,

l tell you what gets me angry is that we tried to find a club that does meet ups as couples only ( not that sort of club ( keys ) NO HA Ha just for people to meet up but could not find anything ladies any ideas.

Bell xxx


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## Anthony Reid

FF did an adults only meetup/party thing in Essex once - it was quite successful.... about 50 people came.

Would be happy to sort something out again.


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## bell

Hi Tony

We have found it very hard as a couple without children to meet other people in the same situation, my personal point of view would be " thats fantastic and we would love that, to have a conversation with others face to face in the same situation and maybe make friends would be great, thanks tony

Bell xxxxx


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## Pol

Wow ladies - what an interesting bunch of hobbies / interests you all have!  It's really brightened my day up just reading about them.

I agree definitely that it's a mixture of 'recapturing old dreams' and 'setting a challenge'.  Also I completely agree that making the most of the ability to travel lots makes so much sense.  DH has been out of work for quite  a few months (coming to terms with IF and difficult parents made him want to take a complete break and start out on a new career path) so we've been a bit short of cash recently, but the day he got a job offer (he starts next monday) we booked flights to America for two weeks in October.  I've never travelled outside Europe, unless you count the Canary Islands, and we have 3 really good friends living in the States now, so the plan is to spend 4/5 days with each of them and do lots of exploring as well.  That's certainly something I wouldn't have been able to do if we'd had children - or at least not for very many years.

Joanna x


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## Fluffy Bunny

Tony that sounds great count me in I would love to meet up with some fellow FF users. 

I have just been thinking over the last month, that me and the hubby need to "do more, and make an effort to go out" as we have got into a rut of not bothering, and its seems like work, home and my two cats, (feeling a bit fed up at the moment !!! ) all my friends and most of the family all have kids/babies and seem to be avoiding us at the moment.  So I have taken some of your fab ideas on board. they look like fun.


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## Pol

Hello ladies

I thought I'd renovate this topic as it would be nice to hear what people are up to and what new things people are doing!

On my new hobbies:
- morris dancing is totally fab as a hobby where you are just accepted for yourself, get to mix with loads of interesting people, travel around the country to festivals and things and just generally have a laugh.  I know it sounds wierd, but I'd say just give it a try!  I belong to the Powderkegs who do border morris and really are so friendly.  We dance at a different pub every Wednesday evening in the summer which is a good excuse to get out and about in the glorious Peak District, and then we do festivals, and various workshops, for instance with childrens' groups, in a maximum security prison, with a mencap group (including people in wheelchairs!!) ... so it definitely gets you out and about and interrelating with people.  Because I'm in fancy dress (rag jacket and painted face and fancy hat) all sorts of people just come up to you and talk to you that might not otherwise - it's really liberating.
- being a school governor has also been fun, and changed my life slightly more than I intended it to - I'm part way through applying to go back to student-hood to retrain as a teacher!!  I definitely was inspired that this was a way that I can 'give back to society' and use my skills and energy in a positive way.  I know this is something I wouldn't have had the time / money / energy to do had I had 4 children as originally planned (!) so I feel that something really positive has come out of the IF journey for me.  
- the MS society I had to give up in the end as I just wasn't coping with where the committment was (mostly invovled quite a lot of travelling) and they kept moving meeting dates at the last minute 

Anyway, that's how my life is evolving, and I'm certainly much happier and more confident about meeting people as I have things to talk about in my life now rather than there just being this IF-shaped hole!

Jx


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## Bambam

Hi Ladies  

I thought it might be a nice idea to have a general chit chat thread for us all, so if you........

want to say hello and introduce yourself?
need a rant?
are just keeping in touch?
are having a good day?
are having a bad day?
are celebrating a milestone?
want to let us know what you think about the Katie & Peter split / who your favourite BGT contestant is / where you are going on holiday this year etc

whatever you want to get off your chest, tell us about, ask...... 

Amanda xx


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## Bambam

Well i thought i'd kick off with a bit of a 'me' post as i've not been having the greatest of days  

af arrived yesterday and not only is it a complete and utter waste of time me having a period every month but i lose days of my life because i'm always in so much pain. Even prescription painkillers won't get me through the night so last night i had the grand total of 3 hours sleep   there was so much i wanted to do this weekend but i've not been able to do anything nice or useful as i'm either too tired or in too much pain  

There are times when i think i should just go to my doctor and ask for it all to be whipped out but then i don't want to spend weeks recovering from the op  

On the plus side I am finally having carpet fitted next week after waiting for 2 years and i'm so excited  

Amanda xx


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## beachgirl

Thanks Amanda for pointing me in this direction...  sorry you're not having a great weekend x

Well, this time last year I was pregnant after our 3rd IVF attempt to atm I;m reliving all the joy and sadness that has brought...been to the place where we got married for lunch today, last time we were pregnant...so bittersweet..

My BF told me Thursday she's having baby no2...not planned..baby no 1 is 13 months..so pleased for her but wanted to say, have a baby for me..I always thought I'd be the first to have kids and here I am 15 years later with none...


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## beachgirl

We're also enjoying lots of us time...films, books, music, holidays etc..

I would be interseted in being a governor...how did you apply for that?


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## Bambam

beachgirl      as you say it must have been so bittersweet for you both

I know exactly how you feel about wanting to say 'can't you just have one for me' We think my sil is pg again and she seems to get pg so easily, i've sat there a few times and thought just that. When i confessed to dp's sister that i can't have children she immediately offered us her eggs, we did of course have to point out the slight issue of incest laws   It was such a lovely thought though and of course it's typical that the one person who would help can't  

hope you and your dh have a nice evening planned together   i'm going to spend mine curled up on the sofa with dp watching rubbish tv

Amanda xx


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## beachgirl

Amanda, I'm on here whilst we have the eurovision on....totally shattered so will probably head to bed about 9.30 ish...


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## Natpot

Hi Amanda and Beachgirl,

Mind if I join you? Wish I'd seen your thread last night while I was flicking between Eurovision and top 20 adverts - I was desparately bored and feeling sorry for myself! 

I had my 6th and final ivf in Mar / Apr. It was a bfn. I haven't been able to start coming to terms with it yet because I've been ill with an infection I must have got during EC. I was in hospital for a few days last week while they were trying to work out what was wrong with me. I've just finished a big dose of antibiotics so think I'm on the mend. After being stuck indoors for weeks I'm going to venture out today, but I'm so ratty and frustrated I don't know where to go to cheer myself up. 

My dh joined a local band last month and this has taken his mind off the whole thing, but I need a distraction!

Hope you had a better night's sleep last night Amanda and that you're tum isn't so painful. I do sympathise - I have endo and at times I wish they'd whip it all out.

Beachgirl, it must be so tough reaching a painful anniversay and having to be happy for your BF. It's hard trying to pretend you're not hurting isn't it?

Bye for now,
Natpot
x


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## Bambam

Hi Natpot  

I'm so sorry your journey has ended and your last one made you ill    Tx takes such a huge emotional and physical toll and when we stop we tend to find it leaves quite a big gap in our lives and so many of us find it incredibly hard to fill. i started by taking up some new hobbies and planning nice things to do with my dp and although at the start they were a struggle to get in to, over time i did start to really enjoy them and forget all about this IF lark. Retail therapy always works well for me too  

What kind of music does your dh's band play? My sil recently joined a band and they do really cheesy covers. They've managed to get a gig at a local pub once a month and it's quite a good laugh singing along to songs you'd be far too embarrassed to admit you know the words to  

I managed to get a bit more sleep last night but still feel completely wiped out. Hopefully i'll be back to normal by tomorrow

Where did you end up going today? 

Beachgirl - did you enjoy eurovision? we watched a bit and i couldn't believe the entry (can't remember which country it was) where they had the girl in the blue dress barely visible in the background singing while the main girl and dancers pranced around the stage. Who won in the end? 

Amanda xx


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## Natpot

Hi Amanda,

We ended up going to our local pub which has just reopened. I had a ginger beer because the antibiotics I was on meant that not only could I not drink while I was on them, but for 3 days afterwards as well   

It was nice though - we fell in love with a dog that was in there. We've been thinking about getting a dog and this one made our decision much easier! I'm more of a cat lover, but my adorable cat died a few months ago and I would feel unfaithful about getting another so soon. A dog would be great as I work from home so would have a good excuse to get out during the day.

My dh is in a band called Tenth Leper (they are on myspace). The singer writes all the music and they sound pretty good! A bit like The Corrs, but with a bunch of middle aged scruffy blokes rather than gorgeous women!

Thanks for your advice on dealing with moving on. I've got lots of ideas about things I'd like to do, places I'd like to go, and it's a relief to hear that in time I might be able to forget about the IF rollercoaster, at least to some extent. I felt quite strong at first when we got our neg result, but this illness has really pulled the rug from under my feet. It's been like an extra slap in the face, but I seem to be on the mend now.

It didn't help that two friends who also had IF problems, both got pregnant naturally while I was doing my cycle. Don't get me wrong, I'm chuffed to bits for them, but the timing was painful.

Beachgirl have you really been through 15 yrs of trying? That's such a long time. I think it has been about 10 yrs for me but it seems an eternity. It's difficult adjusting your mind set after so long isn't it?

Natpot
xx


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## Bambam

Hi Natpot

That's great that you both managed to get out, even though you did have to sup on a ginger beer rather than a nice pint or glass of wine. Not long now though and you can treat yourself to one or 2 though 

I work from home and got a dog 3 years ago, she is wonderful and my very special little girl, even though she is a real roughty toughty tomboy   She is brilliant company and it does mean i get a break from sitting at my desk all day when i take her out for a walk.

I had a little peek on myspace at Tenth Leper, they are really good and i see they've got Jarvis Cocker as a friend   

It does get better     I do still have odd moments when i get upset or angry but they really are very few and far between now and i really enjoy my life. It was funny as time moved on i realised that subconsciously things were changing, I started smiling at babies again rather than wanting to scratch the mums eyes out   i felt like a huge weight lifted from my shoulders when i threw away my opks and hpts, and now i'm hopeless and never even keep track on when af is due to arrive. It's also refreshing not having to plan holidays around tx or think about spending money on something because we're saving for another cycle or donor eggs. It does all take time but it does get better and you will both enjoy life to the full again    

Amanda xx


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## Pol

Hello

I'd really recommend it! I applied by googling my county council and 'school governor' and that took me to the application process to be an LEA governor. Or you can apply via
http://www.sgoss.org.uk/home/

Basically I had to fill in a very easy form with just the really basic questions, and then you have an 'interview' with a local councilor (by phone - and it's not really an interview as such, more of a chat about yourself, but not in an intrusive way or anything) and that's about it. I was allocated a school after having a conversation with my local coordinator as to what would suit me and where the vacancies were, and then once you're appointed there is obviously training given.

Let me know if you need any help finding the information you need ...

Jx

/links


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## Pol

Oooh - Natpot - I want a dog too!!  In fact I'm currently changing career because my current one involves too much travel and I can't have one   only joking, but it's definitely going to be my prize when I finally get a permanent job as a teacher     I've got an interview for a teacher training course tomorrow so shouldn't even be on here as I'm supposed to be preparing, but you know how it is ...Wish me luck ladies!!

Jx


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## beachgirl

Thanks for the link Pol, just started filling the form in and now got to the why I want to be a governor part....will need to think about what to say, any suggestions?


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## Bambam

Hi Pol



Let us know how you get on 

Amanda xx


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## Pol

I don't think you need to write masses, and obviously I don't know you at all, but my reasons might help ...

- I wanted to be more involved in my local community and being involved in a school was a good way of doing it
- I felt I had gained useful skills through my work that I would be able to apply to being a governor (in my case long-term planning and decision-making skills and good communication skills)
- I feel that schools, in developing the 'citizens of the future' are incredibly important, and wanted to give some of my time to support them
- I have lots of enthusiasm and energy to spare and wanted to put some of that to good use

... don't know if any of that is any help?

Jx


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## Natpot

Ooh Pol, good luck for tomorrow! How exciting!! I hope it goes well and you get your prize - what sort of dog would you like? I'd quite like a scruffy terrier or a spaniel.

Amanda you have really inspired me and have made me feel hopeful about the future. It was really weird - when I did the hpt it was Easter morning, at about 5 or 6 am. The test glared at me saying "not pregnant" and I had prepared myself to be overwhelmed with misery, but I opened the curtains (it was a lovely sunny morning) and I felt strangely euphoric. Of course I wanted and still want a baby, but I suddenly felt that another door was there just waiting to be opened and I got excited about all the things I could do now the treatment and all the appts are over. Easter is a time of rebirth and although I would desperately love a baby, I thought it could be about my rebirth as a person. I felt like I'd been given a new lease of life and it was unexpected. Unfortunately being ill has really held me back for the past few weeks and I have felt trapped at the starting gates, but now I'm feeling physically better I'm eager to get cracking on what life has to offer.

I have been working part time in quite a mundane job, alongside my self employed work. I was comfy in the job, but was told on my first day back after Easter that I'm no longer needed. My manager was dreading telling me, the timing was dreadful, but I was quite glad because I'm going to concentrate on what I really love doing. I could have seen it as a rotten blow, but I thought stuff it, I'm going to enjoy myself for a change!

The only thing I'm worried about now is that I'm being far too positive and I haven't allowed myself to process what has happened. My friends think I am coping too well and that it will hit me hard, maybe at an inappropriate time, like the checkout at Sainsbury's, but at the moment I'm keeping on top of things, which may or may not be a good thing.

Nat
xx


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## beachgirl

Pol that's a great help, going to work on what I want to put so I don't come across desperate..


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## Montagne

Hi Amanda, Beachgirl, Nat and J

What a good idea, a chat thread. I'm afraid I fall into the "need a rant" category tonight.......

Just as I thought we were finally moving forwards - about to sell a house and move into a new house, nearer to the countryside so we can do all the things we love more easily - dh seems to have got cold feet and doesn't seem to know what he wants. He has gone off to see his (irresponsible) friend in London to talk things through with him and I'm sat here at home waiting to see what this means for our marriage. We have had such tough times as you all have and he's a guy who doesn't find it easy to talk about his feelings. I can't help thinking that me mentioning the adoption word lately has rattled him - I would only consider it if it was what he wanted and tbh, I'm pretty sure it's not what I want - I just mentioned that maybe we could explore the idea so that we know we have considered it and knocked it off the list of options if need be.........

Sorry this is a "me, me, me" post, just needed to get it off my chest as I'm feeling pretty sorry for myself. This happened two years ago after our failed IVF and I can't go through it again......... 

Anyways, thank you for listening and hope you have a happy week.

Love

S
X


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## Bambam

Hi Girls

Montagne - that's what we're here for hon     Men are so rubbish at being able to handle their emotions. I think they find it incredibly difficult at times to watch us suffer too, they always want to make everything right and i think they have incredible problems when they can't solve everything and make things better for us. I hope today has been better for you hon and he's back home and all is ok     If you need to rant or get anything off your chest we are all here for you     We've all been through incredibly hard journeys and support is just as important for us all now as it was when we were going through tx  

Pol - How did you get on today hon? I hope the interview went well     How long do you have to wait for them to get back to you?

Nat - It is so possible to have a wonderful future in front of you. There are so many exciting and fulfilling things we can do with our lives (and of course some, dare i say it, are easier to do without children) I think your attitude is brilliant and I wouldn't worry about if it's too soon to start feeling positive, if that'show you feel then i'd just go for it and enjoy stepping off those starting blocks. I'm sure you will have wobbly days but when you do each one is one step closer to never having one again and so what if one day you do crumble at Sainsburys, it will give you something to look back at and laugh at one day - there are plenty of other supermarkets if you don't feel like going back there too   

Beachgirl - hope you are having a good week   i saw your post on the other thread, did you manage to get your application sorted?

Amanda xx


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## Myownangel

Wow Pol!!! I used to be a morris dancer!! My hubby ribs me endlessly about it saying "There's only two things I wouldn't try...' you know, that old chestnut (!) I joined a couple of groups while I was at college and it was such great fun - and great socialising! Recently I've been exploring samba street drumming (you know, the street percussion bands they have in Brazil) and joined a local group. Had a blast - it is something I've wanted to do for ages. But had to stop when I came to New Zealand. I've tracked down a local group but won't be able to start until the summer. They don't gig in the winter. (What wimps - my band in the UK used to gig in all weathers - even when it was raining!!)
Since coming to New Zealand it has been extra important for me to join in all activities - and I've joined a writing circle, book club, and a knitting circle (this last one is really sociable - we meet in a coffeeshop on a Tuesday evening). Yet if you see my other post - I'm still struggling with childlessness issues - will they ever leave me? Even filling my life to the brim - the odd wobbly moment comes in from time to time.
Bernie xxx


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## Pol

Beachgirl - I was really worried about coming across as desparate in my application, but actually I think it was all in my head! The only slightly bizarre moment was in my 'interview' with the local councillor when she asked me if I had children.  I just said no, and left it at that, and there was an awkward pause as she obviously realised that she shouldn't have asked as it's not relevant, especially as she didn't know if I was married / disabled / my sexual orientation, and eventually she said 'I don't really know what else I'm supposed to ask you' at which point I told her some things about myself that I thought were pertient (eg my hobbies and enthusiasms).  I bet she'll never do that again, but I felt I was totally justified in making her feel how incorrect her question had been!

Bernie - gosh - fancy that!  I think the general thing against morris dancing is just silly, I have to say - we have such a good time!  My DH is annoyingly good at it, but hasn't properly joined as he doesn't want to dress up.  He is learning the concertina to play in the band though!  I suspect there are even groups in New Zealand.  At the Holmfirth festival the other week there was a group from Bowen Island which is near Vancouver which was quite bizarre.  They were all well over 6 foot and had developed things in a rather different style to what we're used to, but they were ever so friendly and enthusiastically invited everyone to tour to their part of the world!

I'm sorry about your wobbles.  I think everyone has them, but hopefully they get better, and one thing that made me feel a lot better was when the counsellor made me realise that I would feel anyone who didn't feel sad about somethign as fundamentally important as this was rather odd, and not a 'kindred spirit' so really I should like myself for feeling sad sometimes.  Sending you many hugs!  the knitting circle sounds fab!  I'm a keen knitter but it would be so much nicer with people to talk to!

Jx


----------



## Pol

Hello

Just on quickly as I'm supposed to be working - but the good news is that I got through the interview so am being recommended to the school.  I have to go there for an interview in a couple of weeks, but at this stage they are not considering anyone else it's just to check they don't hate me  

As you can imagine I'm delighted    

Jx


----------



## Montagne

Good morning girls

J, well done on your interview yesterday, hope your next one goes OK too.

Amanda, thank you for your kind words. We had a chat and things seemed a bit more sorted - then another wobble last night. I think he feels I am not moving on..........I reassured him that I have but that doesn't mean I won't ever have sad moments......Anyway, we shall see tonight.....

Nat, well done on being so positive and coping, you sound like one strong lady  

Beachgirl, hope you are having a good week.

Better go as am running late for work.

Happy day to all.

Love
S
X


----------



## Bambam

Hi Girls

Pol that's brilliant news     and i'm sure they will all love you at the school when you go for your interview  

Montagne i'm so relieved things are more sorted with you and dh   Hope you had a good night last night  

DP took me out yesterday and we had a really lovely day together, it was a real treat and so great to have some really quality time together. Today we're having the rest of the carpet fitted and i am so excited as we haven't had carpet on the stairs and landing for about 18 months and the carpet we did have upstairs was disgusting.

Hope you're all having fab Fridays. What have you all got planned for the Bank Holiday weekend?

Amanda xx


----------



## Debs

Morning girls  

Hope you dont mind if I join you.  Its been that long now since i had a "home" on here that it would be nice to be part of this thread.

You can probably see from my sig that we are at the end of the road   and whilst i do on the whole try to accept this - there are still days when it bloody hurts  

We have just had a lovely week in Turkey and then had a long weekend in Dublin which has done me the world of good as i was soo tired and fed up - i actually feel like im alive atm (mind you back to work tomorrow so lets see how long that lasts   )

The weekend has been hard in some ways as my sil and dh cousin have a baby the same age and are now in the same stage of pg - dont get me wrong we are very happy for them but sitting watching the children playing, listening to what names they like etc we did feel a bit like spare parts    they didnt do it intentionally infact they are supportive but we did feel a bit like fish out of water).  I loved playing with the children but just wish we had a little one there joining in  

So what does life hold for us now - i really dont know.  I feel lost if im honest and not sure what im supposed to be doing with my life as for so many years now we had planned it round having a family.  Nice holidays and to see a bit of the world (pennies permitting) but what else?

Anyway just to prove I havent been sitting here self wallowing - i have read all your posts:

Amanda - thanks for setting up this thread.  As I said to you in my pm im so glad to have a home at last    is the carpet alll done now?  I love it when you have something really noticible done in the house - i sit there and look at it for ages from differnt angles telling myself how clever i am for making such a good choice  

Beachgirl    anniversarys are hard and   for having to deal with your bf pregnancy.  although you are happy for others to be pg its hard to deal with isnt it - we have 4 being born into the family over the next 3 months.

Natpot - hope you are feeling a bit better now  .  Im sorry your tx didnt work out and it sounds like a nasty infection you had too.  Did you make any decision with getting a dog?  I have a mutt called Harvey and he is my best mate - id be lost without him - he always has a snuggle for me and never gets grumpy    

Pol - great news with the job. We will be keeping everything crossed for you .... and then you can get a dog too  

Montagne - hope things are going ok for you.  Men do handle all this stuff differntly i think.  Mine certainly suprised me this weekend by some of the comments he has come out with - and i still think to this day he really doenst understand how i really do feel.  He has even started talking about fostering/adoption again but i cant deal with it right now - the weekend was full of relatives asking us about our tx and future and i think thats whats got him thinking - but too much chat about it and for now i just want to switch off as it just gets me too upset.

Anyway I hope you are all enjoying the bank holiday - could have done with some sunshine today as planned a bbq but its cold and grey outside 

Love

Debs xxx


----------



## Bambam

Hi Debs

It is great to have a 'home' isn't it   Although i would of course prefer it if there was no need for this board at all  

Wow it sounds like you've been a real jet setter recently and then to come back home to glorious sunshine too. I'm just so sorry that the weekend was tinged with sadness     IF does leave such a huge hole in our lives and it is so hard to even begin to know how to fill it. I do feel lucky as in the main i have completely accepted being childless and got back to enjoying my life but even now every so often something creeps up to the surface and bubbles over. I was having a perfectly innocent chat with SueMJ a couple of weeks ago and out of nowhere the tears sprang and i ended up a soggy sobbing mess on her shoulder   I do still go to the all the FF meets and even the baby ones as i love being able to play and have cuddles with all their little miracles. Friends who have had no problems i do still find hard and in fact have completely broken contact with a former best friend who got pg just as i found out it would be impossible to have children and even after me telling her and her seeing me so upset insisted on sending me daily lengthy emails on how her pregnancy was going, decorating the nursery etc..     I decided that frankly i really didn't need a 'friend' like that in my life.

I'm absolutely loving the carpet. We've had a thin old rag in the bedrooms that could only remotely be described as a carpet since we moved in and no stair carpet for nearly 2 years and i keep walking up and down stairs raving on to dp about how wonderful it is   

I hope everyone else had good weekends and enjoyed the sunshine  

Amanda xx


----------



## Montagne

Hiya girls

Hope you all enjoyed the weekend sunshine - weren't we spoilt? 

Amanda, I'm glad to hear you are enjoying your new carpet lol  - I know what you mean, it's so pleasing to feel soft, springy new stuff underfoot.

Debs, yup, I'm with you on the "having a home" thing too. I used to go onto Babycentre after my miscarriage, but bit by bit everyone got pg and I felt left behind and "homeless"! It's nice to find people who really do understand and can share their wisdom and experience for moving forwards. It must be so hard for you to have so many family babies coming up    Stay strong, one day these babies might become special little ones for you.....

I had a nice weekend, did some mountain biking with my pal which was great. DH has gone off on a sailing course, but things seem to be OK - men are confusing sometimes aren't they?!

Pol, Nat and Beachgirl, hope you are doing OK this week.

Take care all

S
X


----------



## Pol

Hello ladies

Amanda - I'm imagining you spending all your time sitting on the stairs now ...    Actually it's always been one of my favourite places to think, especially in this house where it is sort of up the side of the kitchen anyway.  'Half way up the stairs is a place where I sit, There really isn't any other place quite like it!'

We certainly enjoyed the sun this weekend!  Went to my school's speech day on Saturday (I went to a boarding school for the 6th form, and DH had never seen it) which was fun, although 17 years is an awfully long time!  So much had changed esp the staff!  Then went on to my brother's and we went canoeing on the Great Ouse and camped and then back to the hire place which was lovely.  DH got very burnt knees!  Then yesterday met up with my sister and niece in York.  

Have to say I have very mixed feelings when I spend time with people with little ones at the moment.  Whilst the babies are lovely, I can't help but notice how little energy the mums have to be themselves at all - even havning a conversation is often difficult.  And the simplest tasks become so all-consumingly difficult (eg hoovering with a baby that is terrified of the hoover   ) A very good friend has just got pregnant with her third, and she's a fab mum and her children so far are totally lovely so I'm pleased, but also felt a tinge of 'poor old X' which surprised me    And yet I was planning on having four  

It's funy how life turns out, isn't it!

Anyway must run as I need to get on with some work having had  4 days off and this window has gone really wierd

Jx


----------



## Pol

Hello

I slightly feel like I may have killed the chat with my last comments   hope I didn't offend anyone - I just tend to write whatever I feel on here sometimes and then afterwards worry that I may come across as a bit over-bouyant and bouncy to people who are having a sad phase.  I have them too, obviously, but tend to be less likely to post then  

So apologies if I did and do feel free to ignore / violently disagree!  I guess I just am coming to realise what an all-consuming job parenting is and how long it goes on for.  And yes, that is what I wanted, but since I don't have it the difference between my life and energy levels and my friends' / sister's is quite stark sometimes.  I do try to be patient with the endless baby-talk as it's natural and obviously from the baby's point of view it's a good thing that their mother is totally wrapped up with their needs at this stage, and I'm sure I'd have been just the same, indeed I was planning to give up work entirely and had no further ambitions for myself whatsoever which was partially what made the IF so difficult to deal with as I just didn't know what to do with myself when that 'vocation' was taken away!

Anyway wishing you all a fab weekend and lots of sunshine  

Jx


----------



## beachgirl

Pol    I know exactly what you mean, I've started looking after my friends 15 month little girl and I'm exhausted at the end of the day...thankfully I have her once a week and get to give her back, you really don't realise how time consuming children can be and the patience and attention I have to give are non-stop...although I'm not saying I don't want my own I do sometimes think just how would I manage x


----------



## Bambam

Oh no Pol not at all!! I'm having a rubbish couple of days as my dad was going into hospital today so haven't posted as i'm a bit all over the place at the moment so pls don't think that at all    

It was really lovely to read about your very active and fun weekend and i have to admit i quite often have the same thoughts when i see people with children. DP and i are always so busy now and we often say to each other that we don't know how on earth we would have coped if we'd had children. We have gone as far as to say to each other we are relieved the ivf didn't work   Whether it's a subconscious self protection thing or not i don't know but i think we've both done very similar things and filled the void very well to the extent where we enjoy our lives and realise that we a lot of freedom that had we a family we wouldn't have. 

At the end of the day IF is a massive emotional rollercoaster and to have it ended for us with no children is a massive blow. We have no alternative but to pick ourselves up and find joy in our lives elsewhere. We truly understand the pain that whole journey brings and also importantly we also now appreciate how good life can be and that i think can be inspirational to read for people who perhaps are still coming to terms with things.

Keep posting hon as you have always been an important part of this board with your honesty about your own feelings, support for others and general chat about all the great things you have been doing with your life   

I really want this chat thread to be for everything if possible, the highs, the lows, advice, tips on filling that gap and general nattering

Just noticed the time and have to get off to the hospital as dad should be out of his op and into recovery soon.

Amanda xx


----------



## Pol

Thank you Amanada and Beachgirl!

Need to get on with some work, but just wanted to wish your dad all the best, Amanda!  

Jx


----------



## Debs

Hey Pol no offence taken here  

Im a bit of a slacker as have a few things on the go atm and not much me time    So please dont think you have killed the thread    

Amanda hows your Dad?  Hope he is doing ok and on the road to recovery.

I over did it in the sun and have a nose that could give rudolph a run for his money     Shame I had to go to work today as could have done it all again  

Hope everyone else is ok?

Love

Debs xxx


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## Montagne

Hiya girls

Don't worry Pol, I haven't been around - I was visiting one of my bestest friends who has two daughters......and guess what - I certainly had moments where I thought "Goodness, would I ever have been able to cope with this myself". I loved spending time with them - I always cherish my time with my goddaughter and her sister as it is precious (they live in France), but i also came to appreciate that there are good things about my life too.......I will always maintain that it is not what I would ever have chosen for my life......but I'm determined to seek out the benefits and make the most of the gift that is being given time to get to know myself.....

Debs - hope your nose is recovering - what torture to have to be indoors in weather like this huh?

Amanda, I hope your dad is doing OK.

Beachgirl and Nat, hope you are both well...

Wednesday tomorrow - week half done  

S
X


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## Pol

Hello ladies

Well the sunshine seems to have gone although it's still nice and bright here!

I've got a busy day ahead as my parents are coming to stay tomorrow and then we're going camping, and they're bringing all the stuff for their rather geriatric cat who is coming to stay for two weeks from the following weekend.  His geriatricness takes the form of being sick rather a lot, so my mum insists on covering the floor of the rooms he will be in when we're out with towels and rugs (can't help thinking it's probably easier to just clean the carpet but there we go) so she's bringing all of that.  And I have to admit that I've been leaving the housework this week so that it would all be just done when they arrive.  My dad did loads to help us when we renovated this house, so I like it to look it's best whenever they come to stay!  Not that it's usually a tip as such, but we are rather busy with lots of hobbies, so there does tend to be a pile of knitting on the sofa and my husbands latest woodworking venture in the kitchen, and a few yoga mats and bicycle paniers not properly put away etc etc, plus piles of things that need filing all up the stairs (never ceases to amaze me how much paper modern life seems to consume!)  and it's not a big house so when there are suddenly two more people (and especially those two people being used to a large house) you need to have got things under control before the weekend starts!

My husband is on his last trip away at the moment for some time / the forseeable future.  He was made redundant from the end of the month but is working freelance for the same company this week and they hope to be able to give him more freelance work from the autumn if he's still available then.  He's dealing with it very well though and determined to get on with doing useful things and enjoying the summer whilst also applying for jobs.  After all, we know that he has the sort of skills that will make him employable in the long term, it's just that right now may not be the best time and there's not much point getting depressed about it as that's not going to help (he's and IT Trainer, so the summer is always the 'down' season anyway even without a recession).  So basically we need to get used to stopping spending anything unessential as of now.  I bought a few things last week as a final 'splurge' - a few clothes and some garden cloches and a pair of walking sandals - and my credit card company rang up to check it was definitely me as they had 'detected unusual online activity' - I was quite amazed as I'd spent less than £350 overall, but I guess that is indeed unusual for me all on one day! I didn't like to say 'yes, well make the most of it, as it's the last money I'm going to be spending for about 18 months'!!!    That is of course all assuming my place on my PGCE course is confirmed - the final interview is next Tuesday - it feels like it's been a long wait!  I've been putting it to the back of my mind, but now it's time to start gearing up for it again.

I met up with a friend I've made through this website who lives in the same town now, and is about 8 1/2 months pregnant on Monday for coffee.  She'd just been in Oxfam and bought a pair of baby trousers, and the lady said 'Oh, they're lovely - are they for a grandchild'    She didn't know whether to be more outraged that the lady was implying she was old or that she was naturally that fat (and  she's tall with a fab figure so really the lady was being totally mad!!)  OK, some people are grandparents at 38, but surely it's polite not to assume that!  A friend of her mothers (who knows all about her partner's cancer treatment etc etc so really must be aware getting pregnant wasn't easy) also keeps saying things like 'you're no spring chicken are you' so she's getting a bit fed up with people just seeming to assume it's some type of lifestyle choice to have left pregnancy til now!!!  Mind you we did have a good laugh about it  

Thinking of you, Amanada - hope all is well

Jx


----------



## Pol

House is looking fab, but unfortunately my mum rang yesterday evening to say our cat had died in the afternoon - curled up in his basket in the sun with his four paws neatly in a row like he always had them   He'd hardly been eating all week so not a great surprise and he was 19, but it's still sad to say goodbye to a friend who helped me with all my exam revision and my PhD (he always curled up under my jumper when I was working)

I'm just glad it happened whilst they were there, not whilst we were away as they'd have felt so guilty and not been able to say goodbye and bury him themselves would have been awful.  He was a very special cat (and I'm not much of a cat person usually)

Jx


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## Bambam

aw Pol sending massive hugs to you and your parents       It sounds like he went very peacefully and had picked the perfect spot, all warm and comfy in the sun  

i'm back now, all is well with Dad and i'm so relieved. work is a bit manic at the moment (long story and i'll bore you all with it soon  ) so will catch up properly when things are a bit calmer

   to all

Amanda xx


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## Montagne

Hiya ladies

Gosh, what a busy week.....

Pol, I'm sorry to hear about your cat - he sounded like a real character    Hope you have a great camping trip with your parents. We have been planning some camping trips too as we haven't got any in yet this year.

We are off to visit my mother in law this weekend but dh still in bed at the moment!

Amanda, I'm glad your dad is doing well and hope that work calms down for you soon......

We had some annoying news in that the house we are supposed to be buying is now not going to be ready until Nov/Dec (should have been ready by Oct at the latest) and our buyer wants the house from Sept........we're not really sure what that means and we're trying to find out.....grrrrrr.

I borrowed a good book from work this weekend "How to find a job you love". I work giving careers advice to teenagers so I enjoy my work, but..........can't imagine doing it forever - in fact I took the job thinking I would only be doing it for a few months before I fell pg - many years down the line I'm still there.....!!!! It's ironic really to be a careers adviser reading this book. I think I get a bit weary of the endless teenage pregnancies that I have to deal with sometimes.....

Well, hope you all have  a great weekend......

Love
S
X


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## beachgirl

Just a quick one from me to give Pol a big hug    sorry to hear about your cat sweetheart x

Hi to everyone else, just back from a few days in Amsterdam so hope to write a longer post shortly x


----------



## Pol

Hello ladies!

Montagne - I can so identify with that - I stayed in my current job for years and years longer than I expected as I thought I'd be leaving for maternity leave 'soon'!  I think for me part of the whole 'getting over it' process has been very much wrapped up with being able to imagine a new future for myself.  It was incredibly difficult at the start when every single aspect of life seemed to have been planned with some idea of a future family in mind.  We've gradually got past most of that, and have new dreams for the future, and deciding to requalify as a teacher has been the final brick in the wall for me in terms of imagining myself with a real career that I'm committed to and that uses all my personality

Beachgirl - hope you have a great time in Amsterdam!

Amanda - glad to hear all is well with your Dad.  Hope work is a bit better this week - I'm intrigued!!

We had a lovely weekend despite the weather.  it was a Morris Dancing meet-up - my side and a whole lot of others meet up every year in Conwy and dance and collect money for charity.  It was the first time my parents had seen me dancing, and they really enjoyed it, especially my mum.  It was very cold to be camping, but fortunately we had an indoor venue (the civic hall was booked for the whole weekend) and on the Saturday night there was a ceiligh evening (not sure if I've spelt that right!) so that was in the warm!  And on Sunday we were in Llandudno and that was fine if rather windy (a few hats went flying but I have mine well and truly jammed on over my ears!   )

Unfortunately DH has come home with a cold and I feel like I'm catching it and have my second round interview tomorrow  

Oh well ...

Jx


----------



## Bambam

Oooh Pol  for tomorrow. It sounds like you had yet another great weekend and fabulous that your parents were able to join you. Fingers crossed you've not got DH's cold and he gets better soon   

Montagne how frustrating about your house move  Some of my clients when the same thing has happened to them have either rented on a short term lease or found a friend or member of the family to put them up for a while. In busier times the seller could really pull the strings as buyers knew that if they pulled out a new buyer would be found straight away but now things are quieter often the shoe is on the other foot. Is your buyer likely to be flexible or will they dig their heels in for a September completion date?

Beachgirl hope you had a lovely time in Amsterdam 

Rudolph Debs i hope your nose has calmed down now 

We had yet another fun weekend sorting out the house. I will be soooooooooooooo glad when it's all finished and we can get back to doing nice things at the weekend. Dad is sitill doing really well which is great. We popped over to see them on Thursday evening and had an indian takeaway which was lovely but not so great for my WW diet  He's still very tired but i think that's the effects of the general anaesthetic. He's one of those people that only ever takes an ibruprofen and only if he really really needs it so i think his body really won't have been used to the prescription drugs he was given in hospital. Mum seems to be quite highly strung at the moment and fussing a lot but i think she's just concerned about Dad. Luckily Dad is quite laid back and lets her get on with it but if it was me i think i'd have to sedate her  Work is still crazy, i'm in the process of leaving my job but it seems to be causing some ridiculous and un-necessary stress for some of the people i work with. It should all be sorted soon though and i can then spend 100% of my time on my new career 

Right that's enough rambling from me. I hope everyone is having a good start to the week.

Amanda xx


----------



## Shell 2

hi all 
hope you dont mind me joining you. It is nice to find somewhwere where i can talk to others who sound alot like me.
My dh and i ended our fertility journey after 13 years in Jan. And as you all know it has been a tough time but like some have mentioned it was like a curtain lifting when we got our head around things and strangely i feel we have our life back!!!!!!
I too have been in a career for 19!!!!! years and was waiting for maternity leave to get me out of a rut. Now i have finally realised that I can get myself out of this rut and am looking into  doing a phsychology counseling course and have a 3 yr plan.
I have also started doing alot of charity events and helpping others and seeing their situations has helped me to appreciate that life for me is not that bad.  I dont mean to be glib about this believe me it has taken a long time to get here but i just thought it might help others realise you can get to the other side of the road on this long journey.
Hope i havent rambled on too much just wanted to introduce myself.  I admire all of you with your stories of how you all have coped.
Fertility friends is a great site and without you guys i dont know how i would have coped
bye for now hope to talk soon


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## Montagne

Just a quick one to wish you good luck for today Pol.....

and welcome to Shell.

Love

S
X


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## Bambam

Hi Shell

When i started down the infertility road it felt so lonely as no one I knew had trouble conceiving and then i found FF and it was wonderful to be able to chat to other girls who knew exactly how i felt. Then of course it didn't work and i was back in that lonely position again where i had loads of good friends on here who were brilliant and supportive but i was the only one who was going to be childless   This board has again made me feel like i'm not alone   

It's amazing how many people on here have changed their careers. Today is my last official day in mine and as of tomorrow i officially start my web design and build business full time   it's quite scary but at the same time really exciting. It's an environment where things change and develop so quickly which means my little grey cells will be challenged and exercised on a regular basis.

What kind of charity events are you doing?

Amanda xx


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## Bambam

Pol just topping up the        for today hon

Let us know how you got on (foregone conclusion though i reckon  )

Amanda xx


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## Pol

Hurrah!  They want me!!!  I'm sooo happy     

Thank you for all your positive thoughts and good wishes, ladies - it definitely helped!

Must get on with some work now - I've got to put a presentation together in the next hour that I'm way behind on - has been very difficult to concentrate with the interview to worry about!

Amanda - wow - I didn't realise the change was happening so soon!  Hope you have a nice final day and best of luck with your exciting new career!

Shell - great to meet you, and look forward to getting to know you better!

Montagne - hope things are becoming clearer with your house issues??  My aunt is in a similar limbo because the person she's buying from says he has to give a months notice at work and wants her to pay him the cost of 'in lieu' which is totally bizarre ... funny how he only now mentions it!  But I do know several people who have tided over a situation like yours with a mixture of putting stuff in store and staying with friends or family - not ideal but better than losing the whole deal!

Jx


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## beachgirl

Just read Pol's post and had to say fantastic news, congratulations on your news x

Will try and get back later on x


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## Shell 2

thanks for all replying.

Hope all goes well for you bam bam in your change of career and hope your last day went okay. Yeah i agree when tx was going on i felt like i fitted in in chat room then i wasnt sure where i fitted in so this is a great link. Could we have our own room in chat room? is that a possibility !!!!!!!! 

I have done the race for life and am doing a moon walk in my home town which is 8 miles,  both have been for cancer and the local hospice near us.... gets me fit too. Am hoping to do moon walk in london next year too!!!  26 miles!!!!  so these little ones are getting me in training.  
  pol well done on you interviiew full steam ahead now. I really admire you for doing someting new  you too bam bam .

well hope to be in touch soon just off to have thai which  dh has just cooked  bless him.  oh and off to get a g and  t    naughty i know!!!!!! 


take care all 
bye for now


shell 2
xxxx


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## Debs

Hi Shell and welcome to the thread  

Pol - fantastic news well done!

Amanda good luck with the new job - bet your gonna be busy busy busy!

Sorry its just a short post but im behind with some admin stuff     But i picked up your note shell about having our own chat and if anyone is up for it then im happy to create a room for us  

Ive got my sisters dog for a fortnight whilst she is on holiday - just made myself a cuppa put it on the floor by me and all of a sudden she sticks her nose in it and starts helping herself      She has never drunk tea in her life!!!  So i get myself a glass of coke and what happens - she knocks the flippin thing over    I dont think i will  be putting anything else on the floor   

Hope everyone else is doing ok.

Love

Debs xxx


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## beachgirl

Debs- the chat idea sounds great...had to laugh at the dog...good job it wasn't alcohol....


----------



## Shell 2

Hi Debs


Thanx for saying you would set up a room to chat, bit too technical for me .would be good if anyone else would be interested.
The tea and coke thing made me laugh !!!! hope the dog sit gets better
Bye for now off to read my book now just wanted to reply quickly.

Take care

Shell 2
xxx


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## Shell 2

hi beach girl

glad you thought chat idea was good would be good if others wanted to join


take care


shell 2


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## Debs

I can set us up a permanant room - but will need a name for it - any suggestions?


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## Montagne

Hi all

Wow, a glimpse of sun this morning   we are spoilt.

Well done to you Pol, how exciting for you. What kind of school will you be working in?

Amanda - bucket loads of luck for your new venture - well done on finding a new path to follow...it sounds like it will be something that you can really get your teeth into.

Debs - lol at your dog!!! Our cat sometimes sticks her head in my glass of water if I'm not careful, but I can't imagine her drinking tea!!!!

Beachgirl, hope you had a great time in Amsterdam - it's not somewhere I have ever been but my husband always tells me how lovely it is.

Shell I'm v.impressed at all your charity walks/runs - you ladies are all quite an inspiration you know - I am v.good at thinking of ideas to do, but not so good at putting them into practice!! I shall try to be a bit more proactive. I like the idea of a three year plan. I have an interview on Monday to be an NVQ assessor for my job, which would add a bit more interest, but I think really I'm doing it for CV material!

There doesn't seem to be anything we can do about the house thing except move into rented accommodation for a few months - the letting agents said it won't be impossible to find somewhere but our dear cat will be a factor bless her. Oh well, what will be will be!

Right, better get moving, have a lovely, lovely day - hope none of you live in Sheffield looking at the flood pictures.....

Love

S
X


----------



## Shell 2

HI Debs
That would be great if you could set up a room. Thank you so much.
Trying to think of a name..........?
Moving On 
Hope someone else has a better suggestion ... I will have a think...
xxxxx


S
Good luck with the house and the nvq assesor idea.

Talk soon
Shell 2

xx

Off for curry      Yum


----------



## Pol

Hello ladies

I'm not really a chat-room sort of person I'm afraid ... bit too high-tech for me!  

Hope you had a good curry ...

I visited a friend last night to see her new baby (and her obviously!) - he's gorgeous!  At three weeks he's already the weight of a 3.5 month-old but all wobbly and uncoordinated and very amusing.  He's just starting to focus and respond when you play with him.  My friend had a cesarean that then went all wrong so very traumatic birth, but she's back to driving already and doing really well so it was good to see her.  It's scarey when you think how close to loosing people you get - thank God for modern medicine I say!

Must go now as have a meeting with a horrid client that I'm going to be very glad to see the back of when I leave  

Jx


----------



## Shell 2

pol
hi
hope the meeting wasnt too bad. how long is it till you leave ?
The curry was luvly ta. then we watched benjamin button, excelent film.

glad your friend is okay. I still feel jealous of friends when they have babies !!!!!  bad i know but cant help it.
does put things in perspective though when you hear stories like yours.

off to watch outnumbered now.


have a good weekend all

bye for now.


xxxxx


----------



## Bambam

Need my monthly rant    

Af is a killer yet again. I managed to get 2 hours sleep last night before waking up in agony. I've got a friend coming over for lunch today and i feel like death warmed up   It such a complete and utter waste of time her turning up every month and it just adds insult to injury that she has to make such a song and dabce about it and i waste 2 days out of every month when i just can't do anything   (af of course not my friend  )

I hope you are all enjoying the glorious weather and having fab weekends  

Sorry for no personnals but normal service should resume in a couple of days  

Amanda xx


----------



## Pol

Amanda - it's not fair is it!  Big design fault in my opinion!!

I took the pill from about the age of 15 on for painful periods until we got married, so about 15 years.  My DH did say last month when I was writhing about in agony (couldn't stay still, couldn't do anything) that maybe I should consider going back on it, which sounds totally mad, but it did make a big difference.  The only thing is I'm not totally sure about the health consquences, and somehow it feels wrong to be preventing a pregnancy whilst still getting over the impossibility of one, if you know what I mean.  At the moment I'm thinking I'll carry on like this until I'm 38 and then given the higher risk of downes etc maybe I'll take it ... not sure!

Anyway hope you feel better soon

Jx


----------



## Montagne

Hiya Ladies

Amanda       what a cruel trick of nature. I hope AF packs her bags and heads off soon. It must be difficult to deal with her turning up and being so painful - and you too Pol  

I'm feeling a bit blue today too as we had one of Paul's friends text to say they are expecting twins and then this evening we invited some friends round for dinner and they let slip that they too are expecting. I'm happy for them, but the group of people that no longer have kids is getting smaller and smaller - all the people we go skiing etc with........I feel kind of sad and am amazed that it can still hit me this way    Oh well, c'est la vie.

Sorry for the short post, but must go to bed now. Hope you all had good weekends, can't believe it's Monday tomorrow already.

Wishing you all a happy week......

Love

S
X


----------



## Montagne

Good morning girls

Sorry, hope I didn't kill off the conversation with my gloomy message, feeling better now.

How are you all getting on this week? I am enjoying the sunshine    and hoping it sticks around as I've said I'll go sailing with dh on Sunday (have never been before in England as am a bit scared of the weather!). It should be fun anyway......

Well, better run.....

Happy Thursday

Love

S
X


----------



## Pol

Hello there!

It rained all day yesterday but we're back to sunshine again today    Glad you're feeling better!  I tend to avoid sailing in the UK I have to admit - my bil and his identical twin have a boat up on Tyneside, and it's just to cold for me to be fun.  Can't say it was my favourite occupation in Greece, but at least it was nice swimming off the boat and feeding the fish.  If it's calm I find it boring and if it's windy I don't like the boat tipping   ... so not really my thing!

Am going in to work on Friday to announce the fact I'm leaving to my team   not looking forward to it!

Jx


----------



## Shell 2

hi all
happy thursday too S
i cant wait for fri been a hectic week.... doing a 8 mile walk tomorrow eve for our local hospice.
Hope sailing goes okay and weather is okay.  xxx


POL good luck for tomporrow hope it goes okay


xx
shell 2


----------



## Beauty

Hello ladies,
Hope you don't mind me barging in on your chat, but I thought this might be a nice place to hang out.  I have been missing from the boards for a few years whilst trying to get my head around things.  I have the worse job in the world, in my eyes, when you can't have children and some days I crack.  I've stopped using that lie that I hid behind.  The one that says "  Oh no not having children just yet" and have at least said "I can't".  It hurts but it also stops further interrogation by parents.  I think what hurts the most is that now all my friends have children and we don't, we get left out from social occassions, birthday parties, barbeques etc and I'm sure it's because we are childless and seen as socially unacceptable.  Perhaps they just don't like us any more and I'm wrong, but it's strange how we are just ignored now.  It's such a cruel, sad place to be in.  One friend very untactfully said to me once that it would be considered by some that I had been bad in a previous life and this was my punishment....great, not only do I suffer with endo but yay childlessness too, I must have been really flipping bad then!!  Surprisingly I did forgive her for her insensitivity, even though she is pregnant for the third time.  I got my own back by telling her that being pregnant I thought she was fat!! AAh life is sweet sometimes!!  We are good friends honestly!

Most of the time like I said I'm ok about things, but I am having a wobbly moment at the mo as another friend of mine is starting some treatment and she really is the last one of my friends to be thinking about children.  Whilst I empathise with her predicament I'm also jealous that she is in that boat that gives you some hope at the start.  I am trying to give her support but strangely am finding it difficult.  I'm not sure if that makes me selfish or not but it really has affected me again.  I am fortunate to have a couple of friends who also can't have children and one of them is the reason for staying away from here for so long as she has been my comfort and we regularly moan about pregnant people and unsuitable parents!

Anwyway, enough said I think!
Love Rosie


----------



## Montagne

Hurrah, it's the weekend (nearly...... )

Good luck for your walk Shell, looks like you will have nice weather for it (have you noticed I'm a bit obsessed with the weather?!!).

Pol, good luck with your team - I hope it goes well. At least by the end of the day you will have done it and hopefully people will understand your decision. Did you spend some time living in Greece? I'm not much of a natural sailor either - I like it in hot climes, but am scared of the sea so am quite cautious. Cycling is much more my thing and I was very excited to get a new cycling helmet this week - it's very pretty 

Hello Rosie, please do join in the chat. Goodness don't people say some strange things sometimes - I can't quite figure out where your friend's comment came from, but I'm sure that if she realised how hurtful it was to you, she might not have said it. I know the feeling of not being invited to things - and like to think it's because people think they are trying to spare my feelings. I just told one friend - "look, I would just rather have been invited (to her son's christening) and I would have come". I don't find it strange at all that you are finding it hard to support your friend that is receiving treatment at the moment. In fact I think it is very brave of you to support her in the first place.

Have a great weekend one and all

Love

S
X


----------



## Pol

Hello ladies!

Thank you for your good wishes ... on the train down now - as you say, once it's done it is at least done!

Welcome Rosie   I look forward to getting to know you!  I agree it can be a struggle to fit in - I moved during the time we were ttc and it was initially very difficult to make friends as people my age were all bonding over NCT classes / at nursery gates etc.  But with time I've made new friends - some of them a bit and some of them a lot older than me, but so what - lovely people that I have a lot in common with in terms of hobbies and interests and how I spend my time (until they start complaining they don't see enough of their grandchildren that is   although to be fair that doesn't happen with my real friends!)  With friends with children I am very overtly 'involved' with those that I want to be - ie make and effort to invite myself round 'to deliver their present' on their birthdays etc which usually gets you invited to tea etc - but only with my secular god-children and a few others to be honest.  It does get the point across that I am still interested even though our lives have gone very different ways, and I make sure that I share with them what I am up to just as much as I listen to the whole nursery school / nappy / toilet training sagas - it's very easy to start assuming that they won't be interested, I found ...

Montagne - not lived in Greece, no, but my parents like sailing in warmer climes (are in fact in Turkey at the moment sailing with some friends) - they took it up as a hobby in their retirement!  Last year we went with them as crewe which was kind of fun, I just wasn't in the right place mentally right then to enjoy it    My mum had all along been saying 'well if you don't get pregnant maybe you can come sailing with us' which I know was her trying to get me into the mindset that there were other things in life to look forward to, but you can't force that feeling and it just meant that the whole holiday felt like a symbol of our infertility.  But things got better for us from there on, as you know, so maybe another time it would be more fun!

Cycling is also much more my thing - apart from anything else I find sailing quite sedentary!  OK you occasionally get up and pull a few ropes, but most of the time you're just sitting there! I love the rhythm of cycling.  DH and I have a tandem, which is totally fab as it means I can't get left behind   and can look at the scenery rather than worrying about steering    plus it's fun working together to manage the hills (getting the rythm and the gearing right for both of us).  A couple of years ago we went on a two-week cycling holiday in Ireland.  We cycled from Dublin to Galway the first week, mostly along the Grand Canal, and then round the coast of Connemara the second week.  It was totally fab - the best holiday ever!  Cycling you are going at just the right speed to really appreciate the countryside plus it's easy to stop and explore interesting places.  And Ireland is great for every little place having it's own museum telling you about it so we learned loads as well.  I don't think I've ever eaten so much in my life though!!!

I don't have a pretty helmet, but at least it's red - I insisted on that!  We went for an early morning ride a few weeks ago and met this really nice, gay couple at the turning point of the cycle track (a disused railway that stops as it goes into a tunnel) and were chatting and having a refreshment break with them, and they had just got into cycling in their 50s, and were saying that the best thing about it as a hobby is the accessories!     Needless to say they had all the right his-and-his coordinating high-tech gear ... my DH can get quite excited about that and infact builds bikes (sources all the bits and puts them together to produce bikes worth up to double the cost of the parts according to the insurance valuers), whereas I'm just grateful to have someone who will make sure my bike is always in really good repair and works as efficiently as possible!

Anyway must get on with some work ...

Jx


----------



## Bambam

Hi Girls

My this working full time is keeping me busy  

Welcome to Rosie   I can't believe your friend suggesting you had been bad in a previous life   I had a similar thing with a friend (although she took things a little too far and as a result i have completely stopped contact) I did manage to get a few comments in myself though to get my own back (all very nicely  ) about how lucky i was not be tied down and restricted by children and how much i loved just being able to go out and do what i wanted when i wanted  

Pol how was Friady? How did your team take it?   Loved the comment about the tandem and not being left behind  

Shell how was the walk?

Montagne what have you been up to this weekend? (apart from weather watch of course  )

I caught up with an old friend on Friday i've not seen for nearly 3 years and it was sooooooo great to see her. Then yesterday dp and i went for a nice walk, went to the Quentin Blake exhibition in Bristol and then baby sat for our neighbours. We're off to Mum and Dads later for fathers day as he's still not strong enough for us to take him out anywhere for the day. Mum is doing a roast and i'm going to need some willpower to avoid the roast potatoes and the pudding. My diet is still going really well but i've still got a way to go.

Hope you are all having fab weekends  

Amanda xx


----------



## Montagne

Morning ladies

Well, I can't believe it is Tuesday already - where does the time go? We had a nice time sailing on Sunday - we slept on the boat Saturday night, which was great fun - like camping which I love. The weather was kind to me and the other people that came along were really nice - they were all outdoorsy people who also like cycling, camping, hiking etc. Dh was really pleased that I had gone. We went for a cycle on Saturday too, which was great  Cycling is much more my thing too Pol. I can well imagine how sailing would have been difficult for you last year  We went to Turkey last year sailing, which was my big introduction to it.

How did you get on at work on Friday Pol? Do you feel relieved to have let them know?

It sounds like you had a busy weekend Amanda. How was your dad? I hope he is slowly getting stronger.....

It's a funny week at work this week as we are moving our centre. The new centre will be just around the corner, but we have to pack everything up, which I have just about done now.

Have a great day all

S
X


----------



## Bambam

Hello Everyone  

I am soooooo pleased it's cooler today. I've been finding the heat unbearable and not sleeping very well at night so am loving the nice breeze today  

What's everyone been up to?

It was Dad's 70th on Wednesday and we all went out for a lovely lunch at a restaurant near us that has recently been awarded a Michellin star. The food was gorgeous   I had 3 courses and had intended to have cheese and biscuits too as the portions were quite small and i thought i was still going to be hungry   but amazingly i was really full after dessert. Dad really enjoyed the day and has been doing so well that at his last physio appointment they said he could drive 2 weeks earlier than was planned. He was over the moon as he does like to get out and about a lot and Mum never learned to drive (believe me this is a blessing  )

Now i've lost some weight i decided i should buy some new shoes and clothes so have been on ebay and picked up some absolute bargains. It's unbelievable how cheap you can get things for on there. I got a brand new pair of next crop cargo trousers still with the tag on for 99p   

Amanda xx


----------



## meerkatz

Hi Ladies 

Was wondering if I could join you on this lovely thread 

Wee bit about me; My dh and I stopped treatment a couple of years ago after 5 unsuccessful attempts, one resulting in a miscarriage   I have posted on the site here and there but have at times found it difficult to offer support due to my own grief; feeling a bit bravier and stronger these days but I know that can change at the drop of a hat eg my next door neighbour is about to have a child any day now, I cant look the road she is on; have recently lost a friend who announced via text she is preggers, very off the cuff remark and insensitive so have decided she is not a friend after all.  Also lost a close friend two years ago due to her falling pg easily and me going through my final ivf - her comments were hugely insensitive eg - you will get over it, and if the child im expecting has any genetic problems I will get rid of it!! .

Rosie - I can empathise with everything you are saying - I also struggle to fit in I only have one friend now who I keep in contact with who has children; the others have been too insensitive and have shut me out of their lives; in fact dh and I really dont socialise with many couples now as the majority of them have become parents! The friends I have who dont have kids at the moment are still young enough for this to happen so Im preparing myself for the pg announcements some day   It is so hard to find women in the same boat as us, there are a lot out there but infertility is so personal that not many dont people want to talk about it

Pol, Bambam, Shell, Montagne, Debs, Shell 2 - a big hello  

Hoping to get to know all you lovely ladies - its so nice to feel that you are in a safe place with people who know exactly how you are feeling without having to apologise 

Im going out for a lovely lunch today with a friend  she is in her late 40's a single parent with a son who has flown the nest a long time ago so she is not focused on baby talk etc - thank goodness 

Hope you all have a lovely weekend

love

Meerkatz xx


----------



## Jambo

Hi guys

I thought I might also join the gang  

I had my first IVF in 2003 and had 7 IVF cycles in total (the last one, last year).  Cycle 5 almost worked but I miscarried at 8 weeks.  I recently had a hysterectomy and so am moving on to pastures new.  I used to post regularly on other threads (and you know adddictive it gets)   but no longer fit with some of them (although I still keep in touch with some cycle buddies) so thought I might start hanging out here a bit and get to know you all.  

Looking forward to it

Jayne


----------



## Pol

Meerkatz and   again Jambo!

Must rush as have a lot to do today, but just wanted to see how everyone was!

Jx


----------



## meerkatz

Hi Ladies 

Thanks for your welcome Pol , Hi to Jambo  sorry to read about everything you have been through I know that not fitting in with others feeling too  but we are all like minded ladies on this thread 

How is everyone?

Im on sofa mode all night trying to relax and prepare for a presentation at work tomorrow, feel bit nervous about it , but Im sure it will be fine.  Also have physio appointment tomorrow as have had a lot of back pain for past week, took me an hour to get out of bed one day last weekend  was feeling really sorry for myself 

Love

Meerkatz xx


----------



## Sonybear

Hey everyone,

Hope you are all ok, I have just been to a body combat class very very hard work but I am determined to get back in shape!!  Sat here now red faced and knackered but that must mean I worked hard 

I am reading a brilliant book at the moment called Sweet Grapes 'How to stop being infertile and start lviing again' Wow!  its amazing only read 4 chapters so far but it all just rings so true!  makes me feel so much more positive.

Have a nice evening all, good luck for the presentation   

SBXX


PS - Meerkatz love your name makes me think of the advert! simples


----------



## Jambo

Hi Guys

Sonybear, the book sounds really interesting.  Let me know more about it as you get through it as I might be tempted to get it....well...it'll be a change from Christopher Brookmyre books  

I was at the docs yesterday and have been signed off for another 4 weeks (had hysterectomy 4 weeks ago) but he mentioned signing me back to work then.  I'm off to Tuscany in 6 weeks and was hoping to be signed off til then    

Well, I'm popping up to my friend's house to pick up my husband's sunglasses as he left them there on Saturday so had better get moving.  

Hope it's sunny wherever you all are   as it's lovely here (Edinburgh)

take care

Jayne


----------



## Shirley1975

What a great bunch of letters.
I'm justing getting used to the idea of no children in our life. And this has made me see what else i can do. If anyone has read my first posting the other day on ' it's the future that scares me'. I do not have a close friend next work, and that is something I feel is important to me now to build. I have thought about going back to church, but at 34 i always find myself the youngest person where-ever i go or interests me. I have recently attended a patchwork group. (again the youngest there). They all talk about their gran-children, which i find hard.
Beachgirl has given me inspiration to take my crafts to hospitals, not ready for this yet, but has given me inspiration for the future. As I do card making/scrapbooking and patchwork/quilting.
School governor sounds interesting. not sure what this involves but will be on the web looking into this.
And yes i am desperate to get a dog. Just waiting to get the garden tidied up and re-fenced, then i can go out and find a dog that needs my love. Though will have to share this with 2 cats, 4 fish and Hubby. My hubby is very understanding.
Finding these posting a great help, i feel i have a friend in all the postings.


----------



## meerkatz

Evening ladies  

How is everyone? thank goodness its the weekend  

Sonybear - Thanks for your good luck message, the presentation went well thanks, only half the expected amount of people turned up thank goodness!! have a much bigger presentation to do in October for a conference, have not started any preparations for it yet.  I like your name too where does it come from?  I just love Meerkats used to watch Meerkat Manor, a series about a colony of Meerkats living in Africa, they were sooo cute  Well done on going to body combat, I do body pump and occasionally body attack but have had back problems recently so havent been able to go  but intend to go back when Im recovered  Ive read Sweetgrapes, found it good.  I can also recommend "Beyond Childlessness" by Rachel Black and Louise Scull, I actually preferred it to Sweet Grapes but that is just my personal viewpoint

Jambo - Im also from sunny Scotland -  I can only imagine how long it takes to recover from a hysterectomy its a major operation so I thought you need to be off for at least 3 months  Tuscany sounds wonderful, I just love Italy, was in Florence late last year for a short city break loved it

Have a good weekend everyone 

Love

Meerkatz xx


----------



## Jambo

Hi Guys

Sonybear, I had a wee look at some of the titles on Amazon and there are so many.  My sister in law is a librarian so I might be an absolute cheapskate and just borrow them from the library  

Meerkatz, I got my discharge letter from the hospital yesterday saying it had been a difficult operation but he was happy that he managed to achieve a full hysterectomy.  I really feel well (most of the time) but know there is no way I could go back to work and work at the same pace as I normally do, so just enjoying being off.    I LOVE Italy and was there just before my op for my 40th birthday.  I know this is sad but a big reason I go to Italy is for the food (as well as the culture and the shopping and the people and the wine......)    

Pol, what have you been up to ?

Does any one else have any nice holidays planned?

Well, it's sunny again today so think I'll catch up on a few "Come Dine With Me"s this morning and then read my book in the garden this afternoon.  

Have a lovely weekend

Jayne


----------



## Sonybear

Morning!

Rubbish Monday   Really dont want to be in work today, would much rather be sat in the garden reading a book.

Meerkatz really glad the presentation went well, I take my hat off to you I am shocking at presentations get really nervous and have been known to almost faint whilst I am giving one!

My name comes from my cat, I had always wanted cats and my DH said I could have one as long as he could call it Sony (after the DVD!) so she arrived and the second part is because I sponsor a moon bear in China.

I will have a look for that other book, I am up for reading anything that might help!  and funnily enough I was thinking of joining the library, books can be very expensive.

Jambo, glad to hear you are feeling well and are taking it easy, I can only imagine how hard it must be to get over such a painful op.

Feel teary today which isn't a good sign must stay positive, must stay positive  

Have a good day all.

SB x


----------



## Jambo

Hey Sonybear  

You don't always have to be positive.  It's okay not too.  I get a bit upset last weekend at church (the reading was about a woman who was barren and she prayed and guess what...yip, she got what she wanted a son!) and my friend said to me, it's okay, just let it out.  To be honest, 99% of the time, I'm totally okay about not having children so there's nothing I'm "bottling up" but hey, I'm only human and sometimes it hurts    I hope you're doing okay.

Jayne


----------



## Montagne

Hello ladies

Welcome to Meerkatz and Jayne 

Sorry you had a rubbish day Sonybear, hope Tuesday is kinder to you - it's amazing how we get tripped up on certain days isn't it? I went to the doctors yesterday to discuss my premature menopause (something I should have done long ago). I was dreading it, but actually it went much better than I thought (I don't have to take HRT which is something I really didn't want to do). Having said that just going through everything that has happened again made me a bit teary.

Sounds like I need to get hold of Sweet Grapes and Beyond Childlessness - anything that makes me feel like I'm not alone can only help.

Well done on your presentation Meerkatz - they are so scary. What kind of presentation was it? I'm fine with a group of teenagers, but get really scared by groups of adults! How is your back doing by the way? I have a delicate back and was referred for physio - it really, really helped and I'm much better now. I go to "Legs, bums and tums" classes, which I love 

Tuscany sounds lovely Jayne - I also love Italy for the food - in fact we are going to Switzerland in 3 weeks, but for the second week we are going to Lago Maggiore - the top bit of it is in Switzerland which I didn't know - so I'm hoping for some lovely Italian food (ice cream yum yum!). I just can't wait.

New shoes Amanda - a girl after my own heart - I am terrible with shoes. We are moving at the end of August and so we are starting to pack everything up now - too many shoes is all I will say!!! 

Right, I need to get moving.

Have a lovely day one and all.

Love
S
X


----------



## Jambo

Hi Guys

I'm just back from the library.  I borrowed Beyond Childlessness (for every woman who wanted a child - and didn't).  They didn't have Sweet Grapes or Childfree after Infertility but I have asked them to consider buying them.  I can only read one book at a time, for the moment anyway   

Montagne, your holiday sounds fab.  I was in Switzerland in 2004 when Hearts beat Basel.  It was a fantastic trip.  The nice thing about football trips is that you often end up in places you wouldn't normally visited.  The food was good too so you can't lose.  Lake Maggiore...I'm rather jealous   as I have only been to lake Garda which was wonderful but I believe Maggiore is even more beautiful.  

Off to start my book  

Jayne


----------



## Pol

Hello ladies!

I'm feeling very fed up - went for a walk on Monday in some new hiking sandals and I have basically a large hole in the skin on the bottom of my foot and can barely walk now   all my own stupid fault for not putting a pair of socks in the rucksac too!  Was a lovely walk though ...

Best wishes to all!

Jx


----------



## Pol

Excellent, Shirley - that sounds like a nice group of aims to have.  It takes time to adjust, but taking little steps at a time you will find a happy balance of things - just don't expect too much of yourself too soon!

Good luck

Jx


----------



## beachgirl

J     the best intentions eh x


----------



## Pol

Quite - one day of exercise and now I'm stuck hardly able to move for several days  

XX


----------



## Shirley1975

Hi 

Just to update i found this great volunteer work scheme that is for the red cross, home from hospital.  I am waiting to hear back from them to see if they want me. But it's about going once a week for just a couple of weeks, to peoples homes to check they are okay. cook them a meal and maybe going shopping for them. Have a chat over a cuppa. Just so they are not completely alone after coming out of hospital. sounds right down my street. fingers crossed they want me. they also give me first aid training. (well is the red cross).
first thing in a while i am really looking forward too.

shirley
x


----------



## Sonybear

Hiya Shirley,

That sounds really good and I will keep everything crossed for you, I am sure they will want you.

Let us know how you get on.

SB x


----------



## Jambo

Pol

oh well, you'll have no choice but to relax and do nothing for the whole weekend...shame  

Jayne


----------



## Pol

WOw - that sounds really cool!  Good luck!

Jx


----------



## beachgirl

Shirley- that sounds excellent, looking forward to hearing how you get on x


----------



## Bambam

Hello Everyone

I hope you're all having great weekends and welcome to Meerkatz and Jambo  

Sorry for being awol   Things have been really hectic here and i've had the worst pmt ever for the last 2 weeks  

Jambo, we're going to Tuscany too in a few weeks. I've found where we want to go and just need to get round to booking it now. I just can't decide whether to go in August or wait until the schools have gone back and go early Sept   

Pol, how's your foot hon?   I started playing badminton again last week and was ok the next day but the following day my body was seriously complaining and i discovered muscles in my bum i never knew were there  

Sonybear     I hope the rest of the week was better for you hon. We all have those days but they get less and less and easier to deal with  

Meerkatz i also have a neighbour about to give birth any day and last week got an email from a 'friend' asking why she'd not heard from me for months and letting me know she was pg again. The first time she got pg was just after i told her i couldn't have children and despite me sobbing in front of her she still emailed me on a daily basis detailing all her pg symptoms, scan info, nursery updates etc. Needless to say i still haven't replied to her email. All my other friends with children are compassionate about my situation and i really can't understand why she is being such an insensitive cow but i really don't need friends like that   I would love to send her an email telling her exactly what i think but have resisted temptation and will just carry on ignoring her until she gets the hint i think. Do i sound awful?  

It's a really wet and miserable day here today   

Amanda xx


----------



## Bambam

Bex, sorry hon I've removed your post as this board is soley for those of us who are accepting a life without children   I'll pm you too  

Jambo i have removed your response too as it wouldn't have made sense to anyone reading the thread after i removed Fire Opal's 

Amanda xx


----------



## Pol

Hello

Lots of rain here as well although it was nice yesterday ...

Foot much better, thank you, but then I dropped a washing stand on my big toe nail last night so I'm hobbling again.  I don't know what's wrong with me at the moment - I'm so accident prone!!

Sorry about the pmt Amanda and generally you sound a bit down (weather doesn't help, does it!) so sending you a big  

Must rush as I have quite a lot to get through before going on holiday on Thursday evening - yay!!

Jx


----------



## Jambo

Pol

where are you going?

I'm counting down the days until my holiday to Tuscany on 21 August.  

Jayne


----------



## Montagne

Hi all

Looks like we are all counting down to hols - hope you have a lovely one Pol, not long to go...(watch your feet in the meantime!).

What another rainy day - and there was me thinking we were in for a lovely sunny summer after the last two abominable ones! I'm hoping for sun in Switzerland (please!). I've been naughty tonight and sort of not gone to aerobics - i came home to find our poor neighbour in the road, refusing to go in (he has dementia bless him). By the time his son had arrived it was too late.....

Amanda - hope the pmt is on it's way out and you are feeling a bit better. I'm sorry your friend is so unrestrained in her emails. It's funny how people can be. I have even found that friends who have had difficulties conceiving can be the least sensitive once they get their longed for pregnancies.......of course they deserve their babies and I am happy for them, but it's hard isn't it? One friend sent me emails complaining about how she couldn't conceive number two and how unfair it was and how she just wished she was normal!!! I guess it was her way of trying to empathise with my situation - I said I was sorry to hear she was having difficulties but that unfortunately it was unlikely I would ever be able to fully understand......

Anyone want to join me in a sun dance?

XXX


----------



## Bambam

Aw Pol   great news you're off on your holidays tomorrow though   Are you going for a relaxing one or an active one? I've still not booked Tuscany yet as the witch is still MIA and as i get so much pain i don't want to risk her joining me on holiday and ruining half of it   I'm now 12 days late and am getting used to being a bit grumpy and eating everything in sight   The clinic said i would menopause early so i think i must now be peri-menopausal  

Montagne what part of Tuscany are you going to? .... oh no !!! i just went on the website i found our holiday on so i could tell you where we were going and it has completely sold out         Oh i'm really fed up now  

Sorry guys completely fed up now so sorry for no more personals  

Amanda xx


----------



## Montagne

Hi all

Oh Amanda, I'm so sorry that holiday has gone - it sounds like that was the last straw. Can you find another one? I hope you are feeling a bit brighter today, sending you some hugs -    ?

We are going to Switzerland - driving through France and then pitching our tent in Zermatt for a week and then by lake Maggiore for a week and despite the fact I'm drowning in moving boxes and I've usually packed by now, I'm really looking forward to it...

We have a wedding to go to tomorrow, so hoping the rain stays away!

Well, have a happy weekend one and all.

Love

S
X


----------



## beachgirl

Good morning..just wanted to say hello to everyone and let you know I'm thinking of you all x


----------



## Bambam

Ooh Montagne that sounds absolutely fab. Operation holiday is not going very well here   I found 2 great holidays, one a bit relaxing and cultural for a week in Italy by Lake Garda leaving Bristol on Saturday and the other a compete chill out all inclusive in a 5* hotel in Greece for a week leaving B'ham on 3 Aug. Both really really cheap and dp said Italy but that it's too short notice   He's now said we can take a week off in 2 weeks time and we'll have a week at home doing day trips and poss a night away in a B&B somewhere. Then we can have a proper holiday in September. I told him he can sort out the September one as i'm now sick of trawling the internet looking for good places to go   The day trip thing sounds quite nice apart from the fact it's slap bang in the middle of the school holidays and i got really grumpy with him and told him i am not queuing for hours to get in to places and then fighting with 10 year olds to get to see anything  I'm only 5'2 and get really frustrated not being able to see over children's heads and apparently it's rude to shove them out of the way    Can anyone tell i'm a bit grumpy about the whole thing  

Hope you're having a fab holiday Pol and hope everyone else has been having a great weekend despite the weather today   

Amanda xx


----------



## Jambo

Hi Guys

Amanda, I'm sorry you're not going to get away this time round but day trips sound great fun.  Stuart and I go to the zoo at least once or twice a year.  My favourite bit is having a M&S picnic with lots of cava at the top of the hill then popping into the bar on the way home....NOT what we'd get to do if we had kids.  Bliss  

Montagne, how was the wedding?  What did you wear?  and i hope the weather stayed dry for the happy day.  

Pol, hope you're having a lovely holiday...wonder if you'll be accessing the internet whilst away  

Beachgirl, did you do anything nice at the weekend?

Well I was at my sister in law's (with her husband and my niece and nephew) with Stuart on Friday night and we had great fun.  We had a beautiful meal with wine and some Sex on the beach cocktails.  Lovely.  I was also out with another couple on Saturday so it was a very quiet Sunday.  Am still off work after my op so enjoying the relaxation.  Am sue back at the doctors next week but not sure if I'll be back to work before my holiday in three weeks  

take care

Jayne


----------



## beachgirl

Jambo-sounds like you had a very nice weekend...I went to the theatre Friday with mum then went to London for the day on Saturday shopping...


----------



## Bambam

Thanks Jambo   The zoo, M&S picnic and cava sounds fab   I started to think of a few things i'd like to do yesterday evening so am feeling much happier about the whole thing now. We've got the Banksy exhibition here in Bristol and i've been waiting for the queues to go down but they are still really bad so we'll pick a nice day, take a blanket and go and do that one day. DP asked me yesterday if there are any large shopping centres i'd like to go to and he HATES shopping so i think he's definitely in need of a holiday   It sounds like you had a really nice weekend and i'm glad you are resting up and enjoying your time off.  you'll stay off until after your holiday    

Montagne the weather was nice and sunny here on Saturday so hopefully it was a lovely day for the wedding    

It hacked it down here this morning but now the sun's back out. 

Pol hope the weather is great where you are and that your foot is completely better and you are enjoying being away  

SonyBear and Meerkatz how are you both?   

Beachgirl sounds like you had a nice weekend  

Amanda xx


----------



## Clomidia

What a lovely topic. It's great to read about so many of us doing so many new things, and I loved jq's comment about reclaiming our dreams. 

Although we haven't given up hope altogether, we are slowly starting to accept, or see, a future without children, so I hope no one minds me posting on here. Most of our friends have lots of children so it is hard sometimes to find someone to socialise with, and have fun with, that isn't baby-related. And those that don't probably WILL have children in the near future, so we need to get on to finding other things to do, and people to socialise with. 

So far, we have: 
a) got a dog - we adore him! DH has never had a dog before and he worships the ground our little guy walks on. He's been wonderful therapy for us both and we've met lots of lovely friendly dog owners. 
b) taken up rock-n-roll - jive dancing - it's brilliant fun, great exercise and we just laugh and laugh each week. We are still tripping over each other, but are starting the advanced course soon and can't wait to get going again. 
c) our own "separate" interests - dh is in a band, which he loves, and I'm just starting a phd. I'm hoping these will keep us as occupied as possible in future years... 

I wish you all lots of luck, love and comfort in each other xx


----------



## Montagne

Hiya ladies

Hope you are all well. Phewwww, it's been a hectic week - but we finally have somewhere to live when we come back from hols.....Off to Switzerland tomorrow evening and I've only just finished packing.

Sorry for no personals - must get some shut eye, just wanted to check in before I disappear for two weeks.

Take care one and all and catch up with you when I'm back      

Love

S
X


----------



## Bambam

Montagne have a wonderful holiday  

Amanda xx


----------



## Jambo

Montagne

Hope you're all set and raring to go.  Have a fantastic time.  The only time I was in Switzerland it was freezing...it was Winter mind   lets hope for some fabulous weather for you.  

Jayne


----------



## beachgirl

Montagne- have a lovely holiday x x


----------



## Jambo

Oh!

I meant to say....

I asked my local library if they would buy Sweet Grapes and another book called Childfree after Infertility and they have agreed to buy both and I'll get to read them first.  

I was pretty impressed.  

Jayne


----------



## Debs

Ok im a slacker on here    but i do keep checking on you all  

All this holiday talk makes me want to go NOW    I have only got 18 sleeps till i go back to portugal though so i am looking forward to that (only a long weekend) and then me and dh will look for something in October as I cant get septembers off work so will have to find somewhere hot and sunny.

Dont know if you have seen but i have put a chat night invitation to you all    It would be good to catch up with real live chatter    

I have a new baby great nephew who was born on Friday and i confessed to Amanda yesterday how much its affected me and how cross i am at myself    I cant wait to see him of course - and my neice - but ive just been a green eyed monster this past week    I feel like ive gone back and am getting really upset over things and having the most bizare dreams    Stupid stupid girl arent i  

Anyway im keeping busy with work - we are redecorating the lounge and putting in wooden flooring and the house is like paddys market but I think it will all look good in the end.

Talking of work guess where im off to soon  ..... and on a sunday too!  

Jambo im gonna look up them books now as i havent heard of them  

Hope you are all having a good weekend.

Love

Debs xxx


----------



## Shell 2

Hi Debs

Working on a sun..... Pooy you.
A chat night would be great I havent received details but would love to catch up with everyone live.

Sorry to hear you have been feeling low. It is hard when someone close has a baby and it is natural so dont feel guilty.
Dont know what we would do without this site and others that understand.
take care here if ya need anything
luv shell 2


----------



## Bambam

Hi Shell2 - Debs has popped a thread on the board for the chat night http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=203837.0

Debs    hope you're feeling better hon  You're not stupid at all  It's all perfectly natural but i completely understand how easy it is to get angry with ourselves for feeling the way that we do. Your lounge will be lovely and great for snuggling up to your dh in  I did a bit of work on our house too on Sunday as that always makes me feel a bit better but dp has banned me from any more major projects  He has the memory of a goldfish but somehow remembers me saying that i wouldn't start demolishing any more rooms for a while 

love to all
Amanda xx


----------



## Pol

Hello Clomidia

Great to hear your thoughts and experiences too!  I desperately want a dog but we need to be sure we have time first.  What do you have?  And what is your PhD going to be about?

We're trying out an appalacian dance class next - bit more complicated than morris dancing so I may not cope but I love bluegrass music as it is so lively you can't help but smile!

Jx


----------



## Clomidia

Hi Pol, thanks for the message  

We have a Westie, he's a rescue. We got him when my dh was made redundant last year, so he was off work for a couple of months, which helped to get him settled. We will have him one whole year next week - wow! The time has flown   He can be a handful at times though, rescue doggies have their challenges. I hope you get the opportunity to have a little woof of yourselves sometime soon  

My phd is (very broadly) on people with disabilities.  Your dancing sounds intriguing - I don't think I've heard of that before? I saw (live!) morris dancing for the very first time last month - it looked fun! 

I love your profile pic, btw, you look like a glam celebrity out on the town


----------



## Pol

Haha - that sounds like an inconveniently selective memory!!

I'm back from canoeing in Sweden now, which was totally fab, and have 4.5 days of work left (well to be fair its more like 4 days and 1 and a half hours ...) which is a bit scarey, and then a week's holiday before my course starts - can't wait!!!  Quite a lot to do first though.  Have got all the stuff through from student finance, and DH has put in a claim for job seekers allowance, but not sure if they are going to say we have too many savings now (although we only have money to cover us for things like the car needing replacing and the fact that we have no income to pay our mortgage from for the foreseeable future), or will take into account that my salary is about to end, or whether we have to wait for that to happen. Have to confess I'm a bit daunted by the money situation - I will have about the same each term that I've currently had each month in terms of loan and grant, but I do get £4000 spread over the year in bursary, and apparently may be able to get a further £1000 from the university as a 'hardship bursary'.  Fingers very crossed that DH gets a job soon!  He has an interview on Monday week for a really cool job, so that might work out, you never know, but they are interviewing two days' worth of candidates so you have to say it's a bit of a long shot (not that my DH isn't a very special person, but you know what I mean, statistically ...)  One of the things that is a hassle, comparative to when I was a student before, is that we absolutely have to run a car or else I can't get to the school I'm training at, and that is an added expense we could really have done without.  Still I know we'll cope, it's just a question of adjusting!  The JSA people were unbelievable the amount of detail they want!  They want to see all my premium bond certificates for instance, and you can't just get a statement of your balance, so given I've been squirreling away £50 a month for about 4 years I have loads (goodness knows how they expect to determine that I haven't just not shown them some!)  They need evidence of all our bank balances (we each have our own current, ISA and savings account, plus we have a joint account) and then bizarre things like 'when was my last pay rise' - well actually my last adjustment to pay was minus 5% and a 10% cut in hours - and when would my next pay rise be due - erm, possibly it might have been when the company is profitable again if I wasn't leaving? ... you kind of felt they didn't necessarily understand about working in a small private company!!  And then they wanted to know if I could stop volunteering as a school governor at 48hrs notice if I was offered a full-time job - well no, because it doesn't happen during work hours and in any case I'm about to be a full-time student .... Anyway, all in all it took over an hour and then DH has to go for an interview tomorrow at the job centre so I've just been getting together all the evidence of things like our mortgage and our ground rent (goodness knows why they need that - its £1.54 a year!!)

Still, we need the money.  I then plan to work out exactly how much money we have, get it out at the start of each week, and we'll have to live off it.  We did that once before when trying to pay back our student debt and we found it worked really well.  I feel a spreadsheet coming on ...

Jx


----------



## Jambo

Pol

I don't envy you having to do all this calculating, balancing and budgeting  

Stuart and I are on a "five year plan" paying off ALL our debt (now all personal loans) and although it's tough at the moment, every time one gets paid off or we get a rise, it'll seem easier and in 4 years time (we've been doing it for a year) we'll have no debt (apart from our mortgage - but that doesn't count does it) ha ha ha, it's only MASSSIVE!  

It's the weekend! Hoorah.  I hope everyone is doing something nice.  I'm off to friends tonight to talk about our impending holiday to Italy, just to get us even more excited about the whole thing if that was possible  

have a great weekend folks

Jayne


----------



## beachgirl

Hello...

Hope you're all ok...Pol and Jayne, sounds like you're both very good at budgeting... I always start off ok but then aren't that good at keeping with the plan  

Think I've picked up a bug..got a really bad cough and tummy upset, need to go and do a bit of shopping at the farm shop but otherwise nothing else planned for today and thankfully for this weekend we have nothing in the diary so we're planning a weekend at home pottering around.

Still having my friends LO once a week which is lovely but it does make me sad knowing what I don't have


----------



## Bambam

Pol glad you had a great holiday and no more foot incidents   Applying for JSA is a complete nightmare, especially if you have a mortgage and in my opinion the system is so unfairly weighted   I applied a few years ago and the women actually said that she thought the system unjust as if i'd been renting they would have been able to help me a lot more. Fingers crossed that your DH will get the job and then you guys won't need the JSA at all     Hope his job centre interview today is bearable  

Jambo I am so jealous you are off to Italy soon. I'll be wanting a full report when you get back as i'm still hoping we will be able to go in September or October    

We are starting our week  off work a day early as we've both worked really hard to finish everything off and i just have to make a quick change to the website i've been building for a client and then i'm freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee   I've written a list of everything i want to do during our week off and dp sat and watched me and then said when i was finished he'd trim it to make it a bit more realistic  

Have a fab weekend and week everyone and i'll catch up with you all when we're back at work  

Amanda xx


----------



## Pol

Haha Amanda - that sounds so like us!  I explained to DH just now that 'our' plan for the weekend is:

- take everythign out of the shed, evict spiders and dirt from corners and put back in an organised fashion (we've been living here for 4 years so it NEEDS doing!)
- take everything out of kitchen cupboards and spring clean
- deep clean our bedroom including moving the bed to hoover underneath

... so anything he had planned he'd better do today   

I desperately want everything to be ship shape before I start my course so that I don't spend the whole time feeling like a hopeless housewife!  I've spent the morning catching up on filing.

Jayne - getting out of debt is a very good feeling, isn't it.  It's hard to start with but once you start to reduce the debts they really speed up and the feel-good is great!  And then the bonus is that you're able to start saving all the money you were paying debts off with, and spending it on nice things like holidays!

Well my budget last night shows that assuming DH gets JSA we will have £500 to live off each month once all bills are including running costs of car.  That feels a whole lot better than what I would have estimated!  It also showed that there are a few more things I need to get a handle on - for instance my mobile contract was right for my current job but will be way to much for the new one.  And I have some standing orders to charities that will have to stop for the year - if DH gets a job I can always restart them! Makes me feel a bit mean but that's part of the readjustment to being a student for a year - I'm not 'well-off' so I'll have to stop feeling like I have to be generous to friends children etc - after all it's not for long!

Anyway - hope you all have a great weekend!

Jx


----------



## Pol

Hello again

Your dog sounds lovely    We'd really like to get a Jack Russel - I'm definitely a terrier person, and quite fancy doing dog agility, and basically just love them.  But I know it will be hard work, so the plan is that once I'm settled in a teaching job   if we get one at the start of a summer holiday that will give me some time to settle them in - so it will be a few years yet, but I can't wait! We were camping on a farm recently where they had the cutest JR called Pimple and I really had to reign in any tendency towards dog-napping  

Your PhD sounds very interesting.  I guess it will involve some very interesting field work.  Will you be working in a larger research group?  I did a PhD some years ago (running straight on from my degree and masters) but in musicology so it was quite different from one in your area.  It could get quite lonely, but I made up for that with organising various seminars and concert series and things.  It was a bit of a nightmare to pull together the final 'write-up' as it wasn't obvious how it should be structured, so I'm always jealous of people with more scientific areas of study!

The appalacian dancing is something I've seen at a few dance festivals I've been at as a morris dancer.  It's really good fun although it looks a lot harder than what I currently do. It can be a bit off-putting in that there are some people around who have literally grown up dancing - I know girls who had their firsts pair of clogs (clog-dancing is big in the North West) aged 4 ... whereas my family aren't in to it at all so it was something I always wanted to do  but never had the chance.  But with the morris dancing I've found that whilst it took me a bit longer than some to get the hang of it, I'm now proficient, so I'm sure it's just a question of being patient. 

Thanks for your comments on the picture by the way ... I'm not really glamorous, but it was taken on the way in to church for my best friend's wedding so it was a lovely occasion too and always makes me happy.  She got married at St George's Hannover Square in London at about 4pm in very later December and it was really lovely with the whole church lit with candles, and she had a beautiful empire line dress that suited the church perfectly and scented roses, and then at the reception there was this enormous Christmas tree with really lovely red decoractions all over including some really fanstastic birds - one of the prettiest weddings I've ever been to.  They had a ceiligh in a quite small room, and the next day I couldn't put my shoe on as I had an enormous bruise on the top of the foot where someone had obviously landed on me in high heels, but I'd been enjoying myself so much at the time I hadn't even noticed!

Anyway, must get on with some work - only 4 days to go ...

Jx


----------



## Bambam

Hi Guys

As the socialising as a non parent thread was turning in to a chat thread i have merged it with this one   Also there are some great things that people are doing and i thought it would be good for everyone to see all the things people are doing to make their lives more interesting and fulfilling  

I hope no one minds   It does mean that in parts the thread reads a little odd but it will all start to make sense now

Now i did say i was having a holiday but as usual my FF addiction is getting in the way   I've finished the glossing i wanted to do for today so am going to have some lunch and then grab dp and go out for the afternoon  

Amanda xx

PS I've always thought that about your photo too Pol - you look like you are a celeb on the way out of a swanky restaurant or somewhere and being papped


----------



## Pol

OK, we officially have the tidiest shed in the country ....  

Little pots saying things like 'nuts and bolts' and 'string' and 'picture hooks', and it's clean, and about twice as big as when we started  

Yes, I know I'm mad ...

Jx


----------



## Clomidia

Thanks Bambam! Makes sense to me now! 
You are so right though, Pol does look like she's being snapped coming out of a celeb haunt! 

Hi Pol, that wedding sounded fab. I am going to a wedding next month actually, first one this year and can't wait, I LOVE weddings. DH is playing at the ceremony, bless him   

Jack Russells are gorgeous - lovely vivacious little doggies! Hope you get one next summer then! 
Good luck with the PG Cert (I am guessing that's what you're doing as a teaching qualification?) I did a PG Cert in Higher Ed last year, but I think that is a little easier that the 'standard' Education one for school teaching - my sister did that a few years back and it was very full on. She loves teaching now though, it's very rewarding. I hope it goes well for you. And good look with the JSA too. At least, as you say, it is only one year of managing the finances. I am very lucky that I got a studentship for my phd, as couldn't have done it otherwise, and I'm looking forward to four years of being my own boss, so to speak    (not looking forward to the writing up bit though!) 
Cx


----------



## meerkatz

Hi Ladies 

How are you all, ive been a bit a wall of late so not been on the site, wont bore you with the details, combination of stress at work, selling our house after one year on the market, finding a new place to live in and stressors of the whole process, we are due to move in just over two weeks  

Will read all your posts when ive got a moment, just wanted to say that Im thinking of you all and hope to join you in the chat room 

Hugs

Meerkatz xx


----------



## Montagne

Hiya ladies

Hmmm, very strange, just typed a message which seems to have disappeared, I'll start again...... 

Hope you are all well and that you are feeling better Beachgirl. Did you get the JSA sorted Pol - I help young people with JSA applications and know what a nightmare it is  I must add my agreement - have always thought your picture looks very glamorous  Jayne, when are you off to Italy? Clomidia, Amanda, Debs, Meerkatz and Shell 2, hope all is good with you?

We had a lovely holiday - went to Zermatt in Switzerland, Lake Maggiore in Italy and Chamonix (one of our favourite places) in France     had fairly mixed weather but did some lovely walking and mountain biking. I did find myself gazing wistfully at the happy families on the campsites, but hey ho! The good news is my counsellor tonight gently told me she thought that I am now doing OK by myself and perhaps don't need her help anymore - i have been dismissed in the nicest of ways. Guess I must have made progress hey?

Right, better go to bed as I was off to bed after finishing the last message!!

S
X


----------



## Jambo

Hi Guys

Just thought I'd pop in and say I'm away to Italy tomorrow so won't be around for a week.  I had a full hysterectomy 10 weeks ago today and today is the last day of my sick leave.  It's been a tough week emotionally.  I'm off to Tuscany where Stuart and I and our two friends have booked a villa with a pool.  I'm hoping it's just what we need.  

Montagne, your holiday sounds absolutely fantastic.  I've always fancied Lake Maggiore but only ever managed to Garda (The "Cooncil" Lake)        It also sounds very positive from your counsellor.  Well done you  

Hi to everyone else

Jayne


----------



## beachgirl

Jayne    enjoy your holiday, you deserve to x


----------



## Debs

Hi girls - where are you all?  

I can hopefully be a bit more active in here now as I have had a reduction in workload and fingers crossed will have a bit more time to myself  

How are you all doing?

Love

Debs xxx


----------



## Jambo

Hi Debs

Well. I'm just back from Amsterdam for a few days to celebrate my 40th which was a while ago now and am going out to a really nice restaurant tonight to celebrate my 20th wedding anniversary.  I guess just like the name of the thread...just trying to move on      

What about others?

Jayne


----------



## Montagne

Hiya Debs, Jayne and all

Happy belated birthday and happy anniversary Jayne.

How lovely to have more time Debs, have you got any plans or are you just going to enjoy some more you-time?

We have just been on a long weekend to the south of France with two friends and two friends of theirs that we did not know. All childfree - so lovely to enjoy time without children being mentioned   - and beautifully hot and sunny. I didn't want to come home really, but hey ho! We got back and went to look at our new house, which is coming along - the walls are all plastered and the toilets installed!

Hope everyone else is doing OK - have been thinking of you Pol and hoping your first term is going well.

S
X


----------



## beachgirl

Just back from our holiday to Egypt...will try and write more later on when I've caught up with everything x


----------



## Debs

Hey guys how you all doing?

Beachgirl come and tell us about Egypt as its somewhere we are thinking about for our next holiday  

Its really quiet on here atm and i have to confess im not having a good day well if im honest weeks    So apologies for the me post  

I dont know if its with christmas approaching but childlessness seems to be really poking me in the eye atm and I just feel so empty and void.  I keep thinking I should be coming to terms with this but I wonder if I ever really will.

I cant even make this a long post about it as im just full of emptiness.  Try and put the mask on and go out and I am grateful I have good friends and family to keep me busy but I wish I wasnt busy doing things other than going to the park and playing with my child on a Saturday  

Anyway - told you I was miserable    Hope everyone else is doing better and having a good weekend.

Love

Debs xxx


----------



## Bambam

Debs just seem your post and wanted to send you the biggest hug hon. Am so sorry it's hitting you so hard at the moment xx


----------



## Jo09

Hi Ladies 

I'm new to this thread. Haven't had a chance yet to read back and get to know you guys but did read Deb's post and just want to send   .

I've had a tough day   Had someone close to me admit they are preggers and it was unplanned and unwanted so I've cried all day for the both of us   How cruel is mother nature - sending babies to people who are not ready for them and refusing them for people who are desparate for them    And AF arrived just to really stick the boot in    

So now I've got to put the mask on as I've got people coming round tonight for food and drinks and my eyes are red raw   

Does this crying when you find out other people are pregnant ever go away? It's been 5 years and 5 failed cycles for me and I hate this part of it  

Thanks for listening xxx


----------



## DaisyDee

Hi Everyone - I am am also new and hoping to join in with you please.....
Infact I was posting on another thread for quiet a while but it now seems more appropriate to move on and join other ladies (and men) in the same situation as us.  We have recently had our 4th failed IVF treatment -the first of which ended in a 12week missed miscarriage - only found out at our scan day    and I think it is now time to end that rollercoaster.  In a strange way, on this particular day, it feels a little like a burden lifted off my shoulders - however I know, from expereince, that I only need to hear one pregnancy story to tip me over the other side.  

I am not sure what we are going to do next - maybe for now just time to pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off.  

Jo09 - I understand exactly what you are saying!!!  That mask you put on - I have one too!!!! It sucks   and tears still come quick and fast for me......I hope it gets easier with time..........

Look forward to "meeting" you all xxx


----------



## Jambo

Lillpad

welcome  

it IS a big step posting on this thread.  

I consider myself to be one of the most well balanced people alive who have gont through 7 full IVF cycles but still find it tough as times.  Here's a good place to chat.  

Jayne


----------



## Clomidia

Debs, just saw your post and wanted to send you a big   too... I am like you, dreading Christmas... and each year as Christmas comes round I used to think "next Christmas we'll have a baby"... it is just so so hard, seeing everyone else with their families 

Jo09, I'm not sure we ever really get used to pg announcements? It's so tough isn't it? I actually find it harder when it's other couples like us, those who've gone through ivf/iui and it's worked for them... it always leaves me thinking "why not me" and then I feel totally heartless and horrible for thinking that way, what a selfish ole woman I'm becoming... I know they are so so lucky. I hate myself for thinking that way  

At our last follow up the cons told us we'd little chance of ivf ever working, and we've decided to take a year or so out to think things through and decide if we want to go again. In some ways, I feel this really is the end of the road for us and we need to move on to life without children, but every now and then I get my hopes up... usually just before AF arrives  

Hi to all you other lovely ladies


----------



## lornam41

Hi,
I'm new to this thread also,it's taken me a while to pluck up the courage to post here as it seems like admitting 'defeat' but I am now taking that plunge.  After reading a few a the posts I realise hey this is a 'normal' feeling i'm not going    .  Debs I think you summed it up very well big   for you.
Jo09 the mask is just so true, I often feel like I have my public face and my private face.

A little background: after 6 years ttc and 4 failed tx 2IVF and 2FET in the last 9 months we have admitted our journey has to come to an end, we are emotional drained and to some degree feel the age factor kinda took it out of our hands, for us we had to decide when to stop our we would have just kept going.
Not sure if i'll ever really come to terms with it but like any form of bereavment we'll learn to live with it some how with good and bad days along the way, I'm just looking forward to the day I can look back and say I'm having more good days than bad but until that day comes I'll just take it day by day.
Anyway thanks for listening
will read up on everyone and try and do more personals next time.

xxxxx
Lorna
xxxxx


----------



## Jambo

Lorna

welcome to this thread.  Everyone's journey is different and you can only take each step forward as you feel ready.  After 7IVF cyles, I had a hysterectomy in June and I'm glad to have moved on with my life.  I read a couple of books about being childfree and that's when I realised I was WAY further on in this journey than I had realised.  (Probably cause it took the library so blinking long to buy the two books in for me)  

Welcome to the thread and welcome to the new future you'll start creating  

Jayne


----------



## Sprinkles

Hi ladies

Wondered if I could join you please, we've just had our 4th BFN from ICSI/FET in just over 12 months, and have to say that they have been the worst 12 months of my life.  Am feeling mental and physically drained by the whole thing and now need to get a grip back on my life that has been completely consumed by tx.

Am under no illusion that moving on and accepting will be potentially the hardest part of this whole journey and have bought some books that arrived yesterday about living without children which am reading in the vain hope that they can give me some solace.

Any other advice on how to deal with this would be greatly appreciated, you all sound very brave, strong women xxx

My 40th birthday is looming and never in a million years did I expect to be sat here in this situation.


----------



## dhikki

I haven't been on here for months again, but then something grabs you, and you feel the need to come back on. Read the posts, have a look round, cry your eyes out etc etc.

I cannot believe where the time goes. My hubby and i have now been together for 8 years.

And here we are knocking on the door of Christmas 2009. All this time, and still another Christmas without children in our home.

Why does this time of year seem harder?

We are having a quiet one this year just my hubby and i and our 5 dog's. Romantic, quite, an us type of Christmas..

Am i wrong for wishing it was really different? I wish it was busy, hectic, i wish we had children waking us up in the early hours to see if Santa had been. I wish we had toy's and rubbish and chaos in every room of our house!! Children's laughter and fun times...

My Christmas wish this year is the same as all the others, please let me be a mother please, i try to be good


----------



## nbr1968

Dear dhikki

I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone with what you are feeling and thinking - I read back some of your other posts and so much you have written rang so true with me - especially that feeling that you have been treading water all these years while TTC - while we have "conceived" we have had the sort of year that we would not wish on anyone, and then there was the 10 years prior to that of heartache. Like you I have endo, and I had the excruciatingly painful periods each month - and like you it was just a horrible reminder that my body was not working properly.

This time of year is awful for those of us without children because everything we look at Chrsitmas related is just telling us that to have a good festive season  you have to be parents, have 2.4 children and they should have grandparents, all happy smiling and full of the wonders of Christmas and the future ahead. I truly feel that we have no bright future to look forward to - it all looks so bleak because we desperately want to be parents and it seems to have slipped from our grasp - and we tried so hard and put ourselves through so much.

Me and Dh are going to have the quiet Christmas just the two of us like you and your DH and although I kid myself that it will be fantastic, it will be so tinged with grief for what could have been. You are not wrong for wishing that it was all different at all - the emptiness that we feel (even though we adore our DHs) is so palpable. And all around us there are pg women, babies, families making plans and being excited about Christmas, birthdays, first day at school, all those things we feel we will never have.

You are such a brave lady - I read your post about the "form" you had to sign, and tears welled in my eyes....... please be kind to yourself - you have been through so much - and if you are not kind to you, who will be?

I hope you get through the end of the year and I wish all the best for the new decade.

Nbr68xxx


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## Irish Dee

Hi Dhikki,

I so, so, so understand what you're going through.  

I've been with my DH for over 5 years, married for over 3 and still can't believe that we are facing into another Christmas without our own little Bubba to celebrate with.   

I think that Christmas just makes it all harder when 'popular culture' shows all families as a Dad, Mum and 2.4 children.  

I always knew that the journey we faced would be a tough one, but I never thought it would be THIS tough.

Every time I see the adverts on television that show all the little children's faces lighting up on Christmas morning.  Lots of my friends moaning about the expense of Christmas and the hassle and the mess and the waste.  

Oh, what I would give for the chance to experience it one day............................

Massive hugs to you.  You are not alone.  We are all childless by circumstances, not by choice.  

It is such a rotten thing to experience and I don't think that anyone who has not been through the pain of not being able to have children can understand the impact it has on your life.  

I often compare infertility to wearing an 'invisible cloak', I'm aware of it all the time, but no one else can even see it.   

Fertility Friends is such a haven and where would we be without it.  

Dee

******************************************************************************************
PS:  I wrote this post a few months ago to try to remind my self why I wanted a baby in the first place.  Hope it strikes a chord.

It's important to remember.....................

As we embark on our 3rd cycle, I'm going to try to make some sense of the infertility nightmare, I've tried to put down a few thoughts about how I feel about it all.   

Sometimes I get so obsessed about having a baby, I kind of forget the reasons that I wanted one in the first place.  Myself and my DH were chatting about this the other night and we have come to a few realisations.

We are only in this situation because firstly we found each other, fell in love and decided that we would live out our lives together.  We have managed to build ourselves quite a nice life that we hope to share this with a little one.  

I try to picture myself on our wedding day, before infertility stole effortlessly into our lives and put it's isolating cold hand around our hearts.  We were so happy and I honestly felt like the luckiest woman in the world.  Realistically, we still have what we had that day, each other and the love and happiness we had then.  But sometimes, it seems easier to think about what we don't have....................  

Secondly, we are not looking for a baby to 'fix' us, to make up happy or to give us a distraction from any misery/unhappiness. 

Thirdly, and this one took me some time to realise. At 37, I've always believed that I would love to have a baby, but if it was the most important thing to me, I'd probably have had a baby in my 20's. 

I was 32 when I met my husband and I never, ever considered having a baby when I was by myself. Who knows, if I was single, perhaps I would spend  lot if time on 'Match.com' instead of FF!!!!!!!

More than a baby, I always wanted a family and that is only possible with our lovely husbands/partners. 
We are our own little family and one day we will hold a little hand in ours!!!!

When faced with infertility it sometimes feels that it is the hardest thing in the world.  There are hundreds of thousands of people out there struggling every day with their own demons.  

Even though I sometimes think enviously about friends/family who have children, would I actually swap what I have for what they have?  If I was actually given the choice that I could have a baby, but I would have to make serious changes to my own life, would I do it?  The answer is no.

Most people struggle with something.  Illness, unemployment, a sick parent, a sick child, money worries, lack of understanding, lack of fun, lack of intimacy, lack of love.  I think we often forget that there are more ways than infertility to put a negative impact on our lives.  

I have to believe that one day, our prayers will be answered and we will become parents.  

Every success story that I read on FF has the same message.  Everyone says that as soon as you hold your little one in your arms, the years of pain and heartache just melt away.

If that is the case, I don't want to waste a minute of my life worrying and being upset about something that I have absolutely no control over.

I only have one life and this is my intention.  I'm going to enjoy mine.  I'm going to enjoy my husband.  I'm going to enjoy my friends.  I'm going to enjoy my freedom (even though it is imposed on me!)

I will do all I can, for as long as I can to create a baby, but in the meantime, I'm going to have some FUN!!!

Babydust to all,

Dee


----------



## Rowan22

Hi Donna,

Me, too. It's been seven years in our case.
I'm finding it hard even to think about writing Xmas cards.
What do you do about it? I can't opt out of Christmas altogether, my mother will expect something. 
We have no little people in our family at all, no nieces or nephews. 
Anyone got any ideas about how to survive the festive season?!

Rowan


----------



## Sprinkles

Just wanted to send everyone a big  

Life is cruel sometimes but Dee your post really makes me think and appreciate what I DO have.

The stereotypical Christmas, and New Year for that matter, do my head in, I would love to have trouble getting my little ones to sleep because they were so excited about Father Christmas coming, and see their little faces when they try to figure out how he got down the chimney and delivered their dream present!  The heartache knowing that this will probably never happen for us is indescribable but is something we will somehow, some way have to deal with.

Rowan22 the only way at the moment I deal with Christmas is a. to enjoy as much as possible giving the carefully thought out gifts we've bought for everyone, and b. thinking after all it is just another day and it will be over, and the day after we'll be even stronger than we were 24 hours previous.

Big hugs to all brave ladies xxxx


----------



## nbr1968

Rowan 22

Re your question about cards etc, I am afraid that this year I cannot be as I was in previous years and so i am just not going to "do" Christmas this year - at all - no cards, no shopping etc.

Sprinkles has the healthy approach, because she is right, it is just another day, and so I am going to take that to the extreme and treat it just like any other day, but with just DH and I, and no one else - I am The Grinch. 

We are going to be totally selfish and if anyone else does not like it well they will just have to get over it! We have had a horrible year and the wounds are raw and I cannot be bothered.

Rowan I know that it is not that easy, and if your mother is expecting it, then maybe you have to comply, but would she not understand why you may not want to "celebrate" - have you tried talking to her about how hard it is? 

My parents and in-law try to understand and you would think that since they are close to us they would be able to empathise, but my mother-in-law actually rang the other day to say if we are not sending cards what should she tell people because they will ask why they did not get a card!!!! i just thought, "if only that was all I had to worry about this year...not receiving a Christmas card from someone" - do people not have lives to get on with

and BREATHE!!! Sorry, horrible Scrooge -like rant over!!!! 

Irish Dee - your post about why you want children is lovely - and you are so right - given the choice between having a child but not having my DH, i would honestly choose my DH. It sounds like I want it all - great DH, child but that's not true - I don't want it all just what everyone else in my life seems to have done with no trouble at all!

Big hugs to all the brave ladies - hope my Grinchness is not contagious!!


----------



## Rowan22

Hi Nbr,

I'm so sorry for everything you've had to go through this year. I read about the ecoptic and couldn't believe it.
Sometimes life is incredibly unfair.
It is incredible, as you say, that people worry about whether or not they're going to get an Xmas card.
My mother. Well, if I tell you that my family's attitude to me trying to have children at my age has been expressed as 'she lives in a fantasy world' you will get the idea.
No love. No compassion. No understanding. Nothing. 
And a case of very bad memory, too, as they all know I was too ill to conceive in my thirties. 
We have recently moved and they all think I'm a very bad daughter for moving so far from my mother (it's only about sixty miles!) Mother has mental health issues, which are worse when she's under strain and at the moment I can't cope. 
I just have to bury the pain inside and try to earn a living and act normal. But acting normal at Xmas when everyone else is playing happy families is just a bit too much. 
Your idea of just spending the day as a normal day with your husband is an excellent one.
At the moment, the period is due but it's not here, so of course, a mad and stupid hope is born that something may have actually happened. Why do we kid ourselves like this? It will probably turn up tomorrow morning!
I hope that whatever you choose to do for That Time of the Year brings you a little comfort.

Rowanx


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## nbr1968

Rowan - so sorry to read about your family and their lack of compassion for you - am I allowed to say they are crappy!  ? I know nothing can take away your pain but you know you are not alone here - I find that is always those who have children (and had no problem having them) that can be the most harsh in their comments/criticism/expression of their views - even if you are "living in a fantasy world", what right have they to comment? - doing the Lottery is living in a fantasy world and no one says people who do that are delusional!

I really hope that AF doesn't show her evil face - but if she does, please dont beat yourself up! and it is not silly to hold out hope each month - we all understand that hope - all of us!

I hope that you manage to get through the "festive" season! If not sober, then beautifully, stylishly inebriated!

Nbr68xxx

ps Dhikki, sorry to ahev "stolen" your thread - how are you doing?


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## Rowan22

Thanks for replying, Nbr, it's nice to hear from somebody who understands. One of the worst things about this whole situtation is the isolation, the sense that I am the only person in the world who hasn't got children. At least when I come on here, I can see that's not true!
Yes, the family are crappy - and don't worry, you haven't said anything my husband hasn't said! He's a kind man with a big heart but he finds it very hard to put up with any of them because he says all they do is cause more hurt. 
Guess what turned up this morning?!   I don't know why I let myself hope but I can't help it. Then of course I sink like a stone.
I don't know about stylish but I probably shall be inebriated over Xmas, at least some of the time! Perhaps we can both drown our sorrows for a few hours!

Rowanx


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## joeyrella

i know exactly how you feel.  AF has just turned up (so no amazing christmas surprise there then!) and i feel miserable.


----------



## lilacbunnykins

hi hunn know how u feeling i hate christmas,its for kids...i do put decs up and try and get in the spirit mainly for my best friends kids,and go round me bros for xmas day with me mum and dad,but i so long to be kept awake at night by my kids not wanting to sleep and to be woke early in the morning...but its not going to happen,i still cant accept it and dont think i ever will..my heart goes out to you all,its hard i always have a good cry a few days b4 so as not to get upset on xmas day ,it normally works..xxx


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## lornam41

Hi Sprinkles and welcome, your story for last 12 months is very similar to ours.  Can relate to all you say.
No advice, I'm just taking each day as it comes, some are more bearable than others.  With Xmas looming could really see it far enough, but suppose we all need to go through the motions.

Jambo: Sorry to take so long to reply, thanks for your comment.  I have read 1 book that was given to me by a counsellor I saw a couple of times.  I have looked at another couple but so far not been brave enough to order them - it would be like admitting it if I was to see it in black and white  .

How is everyone else coping with the looming festive period?  I started reading the thread on it.  Seems most of us have a feeling of dread.

Anyways take care will check in again soon.

xx


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## dhikki

Hello Everyone,

My goodness what lovely kind heartfelt replies to my post. Thank you all so much.   Please all take this the right way without upsetting anyone, i am so glad to see that what i am feeling is normal and that i am not alone. This time of year i feel more alone and desperate than the rest of the year put together and i would like to say thank you everyone for being here with me.

Your posts are all so sad and so beautiful, in a sad kind of way. The tears are just pouring down my face, it's hard to see my keyboard!   

I would love to send you all a massive   , it really helps me and i hope others too, to know i/we  are not ALONE.

I gave my wonderful husband his Christmas card last night, this is what i wrote-

WITH LOVE TO MY BEST FRIEND AND SOULMATE, WHO SHARES MY LIFE. you SHARE MY LIFE COMPLETELY, YOU GIVE YOUR LOVE SO TRUE,I FEEL REALLY SPECIAL BY BEING CLOSE TO YOU.No MATTER WHAT THE WEATHER, OR THE SEASON, YOU ARE THERE FOR ME, YOU LIFT MY HEART AND SOUL WITH ALL YOUR TENDER CARE.AND NOW AS CHRISTMAS TIME DRAWS NEAR AND HEARTS ARE ALL AGLOW... there's SOMETHING I MUST TELL YOU IF YOU DON'T ALREADY KNOW I'M SO SORRY WE STILL DON'T HAVE OUR PRECIOUS LITTLE BUNDLES.... I LOVE YOU IN THE SPRINGTIME, WHEN THE CROCUSES POP THROUGH, WHEN DAFFODILS ARE DANCING, WHEN APRIL SHOWERS SOAK US THROUGH...I LOVE YOU IN THE SUMMER WHEN THE SUN'S WARM VELVET RAYS FALL UPON OUR SKIN THROUGH A SOFT AND GENTLE HAZE...I LOVE YOU WHEN THE AUTMN LEAVES OF GOLD, FALL TO THE GROUND. WHEN WHISPERING WINDS ARE BLOWING AND SWIRLING ALL AROUND. BUT AT CHRISTMAS TIME MY DARLING WHEN SNOWFLAKES START TO FALL ,WHEN YOUR'E SNUGGLED UP REAL CLOSE THATS WHEN I LOVE YOU MOST OF ALL. I LOVE EVEN WHEN I AM FEELING REALLY SAD, I WISH, I REALLY WISH I COULD BE THE MOTHER TO YOUR CHILDREN, THE MOTHER I KNOW I COULD BE...... IF ONLY I HAD THE CHANCE. FATE HAS PLAYED A HAND AND I CANNOT BE TTHAT MOTHER, BUT I TRY TO BE A LOVING WIFE ALL OF THE YEAR THROUGH.
SWEETHEART,
I SO LOVE YOU. I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE YOUR CHILDREN BUT THAT IS  OUT OF MY REACH. WE DO HAVE EACH OTHER THOUGH AND I COULDN'T GET THROUGH WITHOUT YOU. I ONLY HAVE YOU AND YOU ONLY HAVE ME.THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE CANNOT CHANGE, THINGS WE CANNOT ACHEIVE, BUT I WILL ALWAYS BE HAPPY, PROUD AND TRY TO BE CONTENT THAT WE TRIED, THE BEST THING IN MY LIFE IS YOU, I WISH I COULD ANSWER YOUR DREAMS..... OUR LOVE AND THE WAY WE ARE TOGETHER IS SO VERY SPECIAL. I WILL NEVER REGRET ONE SINGLE SECOND OF BEING WITH YOU, SHARING MY LIFE YOU HAVE MADE ME THE PERSON I AM TODAY. YOUR MY HERO, QUITE SIMPLY I AM ME, BECAUSE OF YOU. WE TOGETHER ARE STRONG AND WE KEEP EACH OTHER SAFE. ANYONE WHO FACES THE INFERTILITY JOURNEY WILL GET THROUGH IF THEY ARE HALF AS STRONG AS US....... I'M SORRY I DON'T FEEL COMPLETE BUT THAT IS NEVER YOUR FAULT. I LOVE YOU AS A WOMAN, A WIFE BUT SADLY NOT A MOTHER  

I couldn't get through all of this without my darling hubby, so all you wonderful kind people that are in the same boat as us, hold onto your partner, when you see them this evening hold them close whisper i love you in there ear, and just be there for each other. When you feel alone, your not someone cares how you feel, and someone understands 



However your facing things, I'm here to talk and listen.

Good luck making it through the next couple of weeks. We all need help and a place to go. Thank goodness for FF


----------



## dhikki

P.s i am so glad we all have this wonderful site to offer help and support to those suffering heartache  

Love to all of you Donna x x


----------



## espoir09

I thought it was just me.  I don't want a Xmas, I don't want to put a tree up, I don't want to write Xmas cards and I don't want to wrap presents.  Xmas is for children and I don't have any and by the looks of things never will.

I know I'm a horrible selfish person, but I can't go round the in-laws for Xmas as we did in previous years.  My BIL and his OH (who delights in rubbing my nose in her 2 children and my 0) will be there with their kids, one of whom is almost 1, who I have never met, because the thought of meeting the child that should be mine makes me physically sick.

I won't go round to my family's as I can't bear to be in the same room as my so-called mother.  Despite having been told repeatedly that we did not want her telling everyone about our IF issues, she told more and more people and it came to a head when we were away on holiday and she announced that she had just told her SIL as they were wondering what was wrong with us.

The worst part of it all is DH just doesn't seem to understand.  He hates Xmas and always has (I've always loved it, well until the last 2 anyway) but he doesn't want a quiet Xmas just the two of us.  That's not enough.

I feel like my world is ending, and I'm so scared he's going to stop loving me and leave the wreck that is supposed to be his wife.


----------



## dhikki

Espoir, i am so sorry to read your post. It is so sad, i will reply properly later i am running very late for work  

Please don't think your husband will stop loving you, it's not your fault and you can't help how you feel.  

Have you spoken to him and explained, does he know how your feeling ?

I'll be back later and will talk more 

Lots of love sweetheart stay strong Donna x


----------



## dhikki

Some hugs to try and help us all through this afternoon in the run up to christmas 


   

For everyone who needs a cuddle Love Donna x


----------



## espoir09

Thank you Donna.

I've tried explaining how I feel so many times, I don't know what more I could say.   He says that he really wants children and that he's gutted too, but he just doesn't really seem bothered by it all.

That's probably unfairly harsh on my part, as I dwell on it all day every day, usually in floods of tears.  

I just don't know what to do anymore.  If I had been asked to predict where we'd be 2 and a half years after we got married, I would never have seen this coming...


----------



## Klingon Princess

I'm so glad I found this thread.  At least, I'm sort of glad to know I'm not the only one feeling like this and at the same time I'm sad that others do feel like that because I wouldnt wish it on anyone.

I should have gone on maternity a few days ago but my womb is empty and so is my heart and my home.  christmas is all about the birth of a child - how am I supposed to celebrate it?  I go through the motions - do the shopping, write the cards, sort the decorations and its all meaningless.

I remember being on this forum in 2007 and thinking maybe 2008 will be my year, and then a year later maybe 2009 will be my year and now its maybe 2010, except I dont beleive it any more.  Christmas just feels like a symbol of another wasted year gone by.


----------



## nbr1968

Espoir09

I am so sorry you feel so down - I am sure so many of us here know how you are feeling - I can't make things better, but if you don't want to do Christmas why do it? I know there is pressure (i feel it too) but I have just told everyone we are not doing it this year and that inc Christmas cards, tree, decs, parties etc. As for family, if they are insensitive and unable to understand that you want your IF nightmare to be private, then if they do not respect your wishes and feelings, do you really want to be with them? 

I am not sure if you have tried to talk to them or not, but if you find that difficult then maybe your absence from the festivities will bring it home to them that family is about empathy and compassion as well? We have told our families not to talk to anyone about our issues and we believe they have respected our wishes. i would be so angry if my MIL was talking to people about our problems.

As for your DH, I agree that you should try and talk to him about your true feelings - it is not good to bottle things up and believe me, IF does put pressue on a relationship and it is so important to communicate through the good and bad times.

I hope that you manage to get through Christmas - it will be over soon - and then its on wityh 2010!

Nbr68xxx


----------



## Libran

Hi Espoir, Hi Dhikki, Hi Everyone
I'm new to this site and a bit nervous, but I really wanted to reply to your post, Espoir.  You are most definitely NOT alone.  Christmas has to be THE toughest test that we face.  It is, after all, a child & family centred holiday.  I will never forget the christmas that my sister announced her first pregnancy.  My sister and mum spent blissful hours clucking over baby catalogues and talking babies, and I spent what felt like the entire christmas day in my bedroom, alone, crying.  They seemed to be oblivious to my pain.  Because of that experience, I haven't wanted to spend christmas with my family for over five years.  It is usually just me and DH.  I have tried to cope by making new christmas "traditions" just for us, not centred around children.  You are not selfish and you are not horrible.  You are simply protecting yourself by withdrawing from painful situations.  After all, you wouldn't purposely physically injure yourself, so why would you voluntarily put yourself through what you KNOW is going to be severe emotional pain.  I see it as self preservation.  But please do talk to your DH.  He may not agree with your wishes on how to spend christmas, but at least if you can get him to acknowledge and understand them, you will be half way there.  Plan a quiet christmas, just the two of you this year.  Call it a time for healing.  Who knows, hopefully next year you will feel stronger and more able to deal with it.  As for your comment "he just doesn't really seem bothered by it all", well I can really relate to that too.  I think that is simply a case of men are from mars, women from venus.  Men do feel these things, but they just have very different ways of expressing and showing their feelings.  I am sure he IS bothered and DOES shares your pain, but he won't give himself permission to express this for fear of appearing weak when he is supposed to be being your rock and supporting you.
Much love XX


----------



## Vaudelin

Hello everyone.  I hope you don't think I am a fraud for writing on this thread as although I am not quite at the end of the road I do feel it is very near.  We will have one go at ICSI next year but that will be it for us due to financial reasons and my age (42 in July).  I have been yearning for a child for 20 years and for most of my life have felt that my purpose in life was to be a mother.  I have never ever been interested in any career because I feel my "career" should be bringing up my children.

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for sharing your thoughts.  I feel the same and it is comforting to know that I am not alone and that I am not selfish for having these thoughts.  I don't know anyone who is in my situation and don't really have anyone to talk to about it (except DH who is wonderful).

My sister is nearly 15 weeks pregnant and I am due to see her this Friday and again on Boxing Day.  I haven't seen her since she announced her pregnancy.  I just don't know how I am going to react when I see her and really don't know how I will cope.  She knows about our IF but is convinced it will happen one day so doesn't seem concerned and doesn't have any understanding of my true pain although I have tried to explain to her a bit in the past.  I can't avoid her forever and am dreading Friday.  Apart from taking lots of deep breaths has anyone got any suggestions?

Thanks for listening.  We can get through this together - no one said life was fair.

x


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## rosebud_05_99

Hi 

I am nearing the end of my journey as well after 15yrs ttc. Can i suggest when you see your sister you do not mention the pregnancy at all and if she brings it up just change the subject. This is how i handle it now, the person could be giving birth in front of me and I still wouldnt mention it to them lol, I have myself programmed not to pay atention to all things pg.

Im so sad to be having another childless xmas especially with a m/c earlier this year. I go through days of real sadness and other days i feel im coping not too bad. I guess I just overspend on my neices and nephews this time of year to kind of compensate and to have an excuse to go into smyths.

rosebud


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## dhikki

I have everyone  

My goodness even more posts, i didn't think anyone would understand how i was feeling, for all of you sadly i was very wrong! I really am not alone!  

It is such an awfull situation, to find ourselves in. The range of emotions that we face and go through each and everyday. 

It is unbearable. No one understands unless they are in the situation facing what we face. It is very hard and i know this won't help much, but we MUST not be harsh on people that have never been through it, how can they possibly understand. I used to hate everyone that had children, got pregnant etc   But it is not there fault. I never understood this myself and to be honest do i really understand now, how i feel and how it affects me so badly.   I am infertile and it hurts me, it makes me feel so many awful things, when someone has cancer i don't understand how they really feel, i can try to imagine, i can try to empathise but i don't truly know.....  

Christmas is an awful time of year for so many of us as it seems, but i try to think that other things are hard for me too. Sorry if tmi but even when i make love to my husband, sometimes i will burst out crying, i get so upset, not because i don't want to make love but thinking we are so close and in love why can't we conceieve in the most beautiful natural way.  

How many people do you hear of that get preganat on a one night stand, how many young girls get pregnant when they are drunk as skunks, and carry on a bad life style until they realise they are pregnant.  

I think about it all the time and tie myself up in knots!  

My hubby doesn't talk about it much either, he will never bring the subject up, because it hurts him too. I asked him one day why does he never cry like i do so much of the time. His answer is i have to be strong for YOU, he doesn't want to burden how he feels onto me. I see what he is saying but women need to talk about these things even tho it doesn't solve anything.

ESPOIR have you tried writing your dh a letter to explain how your feeling? I do this alot, we are very open, but when i have a lot to pour out i find leaving a letter for him is far easier. He can then read it take it all in and think about what he wants to say in a calm way without being faced with me breaking my heart  

My husband and i have decided to make time for thinking about being childless on christmas day, may sound silly to others but we plan to eat lunch at 4 pm, before this we are going to our local beach, no matter what the weather, we are gonna have a good long walk hand in hand, sit for a while think about what we have been through, talk about what we are still going through and then try to look forward to what we still have to face. It literally is an hour or so to talk about our horror's of IF and bring it to the forefront of our minds. But we have both agreed that when we leave the beach thats it for that day we have to then enjoy just being us!   We both feel there is really no point in trying to ignore it, as it will just be there all day eating away at us!  
We both love the beach and thought it would be really nice, plus i also feel what parents would be on the beach 25 th december walking!  

Thank you for all being here with me,   Love Donna x


----------



## dhikki

Vaudelin- Welcome hunny of course your not a fraud, lovely to have you here  

Libran- Please don't be nervous hun, your are very welcome i hope your findinf ff a great help  

Rosebud- I am so so sorry for your loss this year, i can only imagine how devestaed you must be. You have much love an dsupport here  

Again another big thank you for helping me and each other it is a great comfort   Love Donna x


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## Vaudelin

I totally agree Dhikki.  I don't want to be cross with my sister for being pregnant as she isn't doing it to punish me - this is just life!  I really want my attitude towards her and her pregnancy to change.  Unfortunately we are going out for dinner with two other friends and I just know she is going to announce her pregnancy to them.  I will be stuck at a table with no escape.  I will try changing the subject but she will notice and it could get a bit embarrassing.  I think I will just let her say her bit and then change the subject subtly.  My DH feels the same so he might beat me to it!

Wishing all you ladies the very best and thanks again for listening.

x


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## Vaudelin

Sorry forgot to say Dhikki that I think what you and DH are doing on Christmas Day is such a wonderful idea.  I hope you both feel better after your walk (and talk) on the beach and go on to have a lovely Christmas Day.  

Let's hope we can all get through Christmas without too much heartache.  Miracles do happen and I stil believe in them. 

x


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## Libran

Dhikki, I just wanted to say that I think your idea of a walk on the beach is so wonderful, I want to suggest something similar to my dh.  I expect we will end up taking our dog out for a walk together after christmas lunch anyway, and, you are so right, it seems like the perfect opportunity to talk.  Acknowledge your sadness and then look forward to the future.  It sounds like you have the most fantastic relationship with your dh (one of the best "advantages" - if I can put it like that - of infertility is surely a much closer relationship with your dh than that of the average couple with children) so use that to the full and build upon it - you can get through anything together with mutual love and support.  

Vaudelin, I wish you all the best in surviving the dreaded dinner with your sister and friends.  I wish I had some great survival tips, but I don't.  I just hope that knowing that there are so many of us out there in the same situation will help you as you sit round the dinner table.  You are right, nobody ever said life was fair, and if we act or feel like "victims" of cruel circumstance, that isn't going to change a thing.    

Thanks to everyone for the great posts and all the support.  I can honestly say that reading everyones posts has helped me more than any of you will ever realise XX


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## dhikki

Vaudelin- I wouldn't want to have to face it either, your meal. I don't have a sister but i do have a sister in law to be, and i feel sure that it won't be long before they have baby news they ahve been together 8 years and recently set a date. I don't know who you have told about your IF. But couldn't you let your sister tell her news, as we would want to!   Let her talk for a bit, and then truthfully say that your finding it painful to talk about as you feel so fragile at the moment? Even if someone doesn't know the heartache of this wicked journey, they should empathise that they are causing you to be upset!   just a thought!

Libran- thank you, yes i am very lucky i have the best husband any woman could want!   He is totally there for me know matter what. A couple of years back i felt so guilty that i could not give him children, i asked him to leave me. Sounds awful i know but the infertility is my fault not his, and i honestly felt that if he were to meet someone else he could have his children.   
But he said he would rather be with me childless, than not have me in his life! I love him more than words..... and your right i do feel we are stronger with all that we have been through. He has seen me at my lowest and most desperate, and still he wants to be my husband !  

Hope everyone feels ok this evening, love and support to you all Donna x


----------



## dhikki

Not having such a good day today, i seem to have lost my look forward attitude!  
Don't think it helped that i thought about seeing my own children playing in the snow!  

Must try harder to have a better day......


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## Vaudelin

Just a quick one to say that I have good days and bad days and accept that it is probably going to be like this forever.  Hopefully eventually though the good days will start to outweigh the bad days. 

Also, my dinner tonight has been cancelled!  Not just because of the snow but one of my friends is unwell.  I will still have to face "the situation" but it will have to wait until another day 

x


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## Libran

Dhikki, I'm so sorry to hear that you are having a bad day.  .  We are all here for you.
It is not an easy journey, a real roller coaster infact.  Sometimes I feel relatively "normal", just getting on with my life, reasonably at peace, then at other times it hits you so hard you just can't stop crying and don't even want to get out of bed.  Just remember, it is perfectly normal to have ups and downs, bad days and good.  Don't be too hard on yourself for having a bad day.  You need to give yourself permission to have the odd bad day now and again.  Just remember to be extra kind to yourself, and if all else fails, there is always chocolate ?!!! 
Vaudelin, it's great that your immediate problem of the dinner has been resolved, but, as you say, it hasn't gone away completely.  Maybe it would be better if your sister didn't announce her pregnancy in such a public way whilst you were around ?  Couldn't she tell friends her news individually whilst you are not present?  I completely understand her desire and right to share her good news, but she needs to respect your feelings too, and it is all about striking the right balance.


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## dhikki

Hi ladies, i had a bad day, spent lots of time crying. Wasted my day really. But then i had to go off to school at 2pm, mad busy as it is the last day of term and that helped didn't have time for a cuppa let alone feeling sorry for myself   Atleast now have the weekend to be with my DH and my animal family! 

Vaudelin- i am glad your dinner has been put off, atleast you have more time to prepare! Could you speak to your sister privately like libran suggested!   Hope your doing ok hun?

Libran- thank you for your kind post, how are you hun?  

 To all Love Donna x


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## dhikki

Hi girls,

i'm feeling better today, have just finnished blitzing the house. Now off to stables to sort Wilson out.

Hope everyone is well, Love to you all Donna x


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## Libran

Hi Donna
I did send you a PM earlier, but not sure if you got it?  I'm a newbie here and can be a bit stupid with technology !
I'm so glad you are feeling better today, hun.  My dh is fantastic, brilliant, but sometimes, when I'm feeling low, not even he can reach me.  He says "Why aren't I enough for you?  Why will I never be enough for you?" and I just don't know what the answer to that is !  It makes me feel so guilty !  
We are all here for you, please remember that.   We are all going through the same thing, and we can all support and gain strength from each other.
Ok, off to take my "substitute child" (my jack russell) for a walk, then scoff loads of mince pies whilst watching Strictly.  Hope Wilson is OK XX


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## dhikki

Hi libran hun, i am afraid i didn't get your pm!! Not sure if it was you or me!!  

Wilson is ok ty, a bit grumpy because of all this snow!! We can't get out for our normal long rides! Bless him he has so much energy he now can't control his manners ....  

How are you darling ? And everyone else?

Love Donna x


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## Vaudelin

Hello ladies, thanks for your lovely replies.  Unfortunately the friends we are meeting up with are mainly my friends and my sister only sees them when she is with me.  So basically the only time she will get to announce her pregnancy to them will be in front of me.  I am sure it will be fine.  When the time comes I will let her say her bit and then change the subject.  She won't like it but that's life isn't it.  I still have to see her on Boxing Day where she will be showing off her bump to everyone.  Last time she was pregnant she grabbed my hand and put it on her stomach when the baby moved.  I nearly died.  I wish I could cope better with her being pregnant.  A close friend of mine was pregnant last year and I look after her baby sometimes and I am fine.  I don't understand why I have such a problem with my sister.  I guess it is sibling rivalry and all that!  Anyway, I am determined to have a good Christmas and will probably hit the bottle when I get home on Boxing Day! 

x


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## espoir09

I think its something to do with the closer the pregnant person is to you, the more it feels like it should be you not them.

I know I feel that way about my DH's nephew.  We'd been trying for 2 years when my not really SIL got pregnant against my BIL's wishes (won't go into the details, too upsetting) on her first month of being off the pill.  I've never been able to forgive her for that.  It was supposed to be my turn to have a baby, not hers again.


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## Libran

Vaudelin, I agree with Espoir's comments.  I think the closer you are to the "pregnant" person, the harder it is.  I have many close friends who have all, one by one, announced their pregnancies. and, somehow, I have managed to survive and get through it.  However, when my sister announced her pregnancy, it seemed to hit such a raw nerve, at such a deeper level, it completely took me by surprise.  I guess it was also to do with the fact that my parents were becoming grandparents (a gift I could never give them) and that also brought my mum and sister much closer together, and left me out in the cold.  I'm more or less teetotal, but when sis announced she was pregnant, I drank a whole bottle of red wine to myself that night.......   
Donna - hope you are OK, hun.
Keep strong everyone XX


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## Vaudelin

Thanks everyone, that does make sense.  I was talking to my acupuncturist about it.  She doesn't have children and she said she was fine with that until her sister got pregnant and it hit her really hard.  It's strange isn't it.  I feel sooooo guilty for my complete lack of interest in her and her pregnancy.  Sometimes I feel like I am being punished with IF because of my wicked thoughts towards my sister.  I was even thinking of having hynotherapy to try and rid me of the wicked thoughts!  Oh it is so nice to hear that I am normal.  I am very lucky in that I have such a supportive DH.  Without him I would truly have lost the plot!  Thanks again ladies, you are the best.

x


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## espoir09

Hey Vaudelin

This forum is great for making you feel less like a combo of The Incredible Hulk, The Wicked Witch of the West and Freddie Krueger and more like a normal human being!

I have booked my first acupuncture session in the hope that this will aid will my well being generally as well as assisting with the whole IF issue.  If I don't, I think I may explode I'm so uptight and highly strung at the moment.

One lovely lady on here recommended hypnotherapy (and she's due for her 20wk scan at the beginning of Feb).

I'm not sure where you are, but the hypnotherapist she recommended was on the hypnofertility website which comes up first if you type hypnofertility into Google UK and there are others on there all over the country.

I haven't tried it yet so can't recommend it or not yet, but it was quite expensive at about £85 a session I believe.

If you try it, let me know how it goes.  Keeping my fingers crossed for you


----------



## dhikki

Hi everyone,

I think your all right about it being closer to home more it hurts. i am oldest have to younger brothers neither of them parents yet!!

My youngest brother Mark, has just got engaged, i am sure it won't be long........... 

Will have to guess that bridge when i come to it i guess. Thankfully they do live 50 miles from here and we don't see them that much, i will fall into the (sorry to busy) group i would think!

How are you all? Love Donna x


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## Vaudelin

Thanks Espoir09.  Although I have decided for now I am not going to have hynotherapy I certainly haven't ruled it out for something in the future.  It is expensive and that is a big factor.  Like I said we are going to have one go at ICSI and at the ARGC you are talking £10-12K with all the tests (having immunes done too) so money is tight for us.  Acupuncture has been wonderful for me and I am continuing to have it.  I feel more calm, more in control - it is very good for anxiety.  I would recommend that you go to someone who specialises in fertility though if you want help in that department. 

If I am not on here again I want to wish you all a very merry Christmas.  You are indeed a group of very special people.

x


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## espoir09

Merry Christmas to you too Vaudelin and heaps of baby dust for the New Year.


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## Bambam

*Wishing you all a very 
Happy Christmas 
and a very 
Happy New Year

Lots of love
Amanda
xxx*​


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## Libran

Hi 
I'm sorry, but I'm having a really bad day.  Christmas was awful.  I'm feeling very hurt and jealous, because my one remaining childless friend has announced she is expecting in 2010.  I feel so happy for her (she has been through so much, she has been ttc for 8 years, and I know that she, above everyone else,  understands the pain) but at the same time I am devastated because I feel that I have now "lost" the one person that I can truly share this cruel experience / journey with.  I got the news on christmas morning, and then had to put on a brave face whilst my parents spent all christmas day talking about my sisters children etc.  I feel so alone.  I must be such a mean, awful person.  How can I have such wicked thoughts towards a friend who has only ever been good to me?  Shame on me!  No wonder I am doomed to live this life - I obviously don't deserve children !  
Vaudelin - hope you manage to survive Boxing Day and seeing your sister.  
Donna - how are you hun ?  Hope you survived christmas too  
Sorry to rant.  Rant over now X


----------



## zen

Hi 

I have been lurking on this site for the past two years but the last post is one I could not read and run.  We are on the IF journey due to me having cancer twice in the last three years.  As far as we can tell I am all healthy again but .....2009 started with such hope, we were all booked for our first round of IVF when a routine scan showed the cancer was back.  The week I was supposed to have EC I have having chemorad which has plunged me into menopause, baby journey over.  Talking about how bad this year was my DH said he thinks its was good as I am still alive, I like his positive thinking.

The year just got worse as one by one my friends announced their pregnancies.  The first week of chemorad three friends announced their pregnancy, there were lots of tears that weekend.  Christmas was really hard this year, we should have been 'in the club' but instead I freaded opening the christmas cards as each one was a reminder that we were the only ones left with no children.  I stopped counting at 15 pregnancies between work/friends in 2009 and imagine it will be just as bad in 2010. 

So what do we do now?  Play the waiting game with cancer for another year and then see if any adoption agencies will touch us.  We can fill our time with fancy holidays, shopping, etc etc.

We have all been given a duff hand in life and I have been told these experiences will only make us stronger.  I would have accepted few weaknesses in my life but there is nothing I can do now.

Lets ring in 2010 with a hope of a more positive year....

zen


----------



## espoir09

to you both Libran and Zen

Libran, you are not a terrible person, I think your reaction is perfectly normal (well its just how I would feel).  Its not much comfort but maybe 2010 can be the year for both of us.  I'll be your new friend who understands?

Zen, I'm so sorry to hear about your terrible year.  Either one of the challenges you've been given is such a burden but both together, you must be a truly amazing person to still be getting up every day.  I hope you have a happy ending to your journey


----------



## Libran

Zen, I am so sorry to hear about your dreadful year.  Stay strong.  We are all here for you.  Life is cruel, and sometimes the cruelness can make us bitter, but I am trying my hardest NOT to let the bitterness overtake me and define me.  I don't pretend it is easy - sometimes I succeed, sometimes I don't.
Espoir - thank you, thank you, thank you for not judging me for my wicked thoughts and making me feel more normal.  Of course we will be friends and support each other during the coming year.  I would love that.
Donna - hope you are OK hun and having a good christmas.  Let us know how you are doing if you can XX


----------



## dhikki

Hi all, 

I have been trying to get online but my bloody pc keeps saying NO! It feels lke a sketch out of little britain! But so far tonight it seems to be ok!!

Zen- welcome sweetheart, my god how brave are you?   I think what you have been through must have and still is unbearable. You have my love and support x

Libran- I totally understand hun, the other night i spent ages on here, reading through from when i joined in 2005, looking back through old posts of mine and my buddies list. I currently have 47 buddies that i used to talk too, join posts etc.... In 2009 i am the only one on that buddy list that is childless.   more than half of them are on child number 2 and 3!! 
It broke my heart i cried so much i was nearly sick! The feelings i had inside i feel so ashamed. So very ashamed.........  

Christmas was tough but we got through, now i look to new year with a heavy heart   as this time last year i thought maybe this year, and i'm sure i will be here this time next year tooooo .......... 

Love to you all Donna


----------



## dhikki

I WANT TO BE A MOTHER


----------



## Libran

How is everyone doing on this thread ?  I just wanted to say that my job is to draft wills for people.  As part of that, every day I have to ask Clients about their children so that we can discuss appointing guardians etc.  I was taking instructions from a Client one day, and she was telling me all about her 3 year old son.  I took details of guardians she wanted to appoint, then she began asking ME a load of questions about whether or not I had children myself; why didn't I have children; didn't I want children; was I planning children in 2010 ?!  I finished the will and was shaking so much and so upset, I then had to have a baileys before I could do anything else.
Donna - stay strong hun.  It hurts like hell, and it is painful, but I'm so pleased to have found this website.  You are all helping me so much, more than you will ever realise X


----------



## lots 1

Have read this thread from a distance and just wanted to say you are not alone   .Laura xx


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## dhikki

Thanks guy's.

 Found your pm at last libran i have replied hun


Trying to be stronger today, haven't cried yet, since late last night   i hope i can keep it that way!

I spent the afternoon at the stables, took my horse wilson out for a good long ride, blew away all my cobwebs, and his too   we had a good long gallop too was fab even if a little freezing!!

How is everyone?

Love you all Donna x


----------



## Libran

Donna,
Stay strong, hun.  Big hugs to you XX   Christmas is now (thankfully) over and New Year is just round the corner.  Lets hope 2010 is a good year for all of us.  I am exhausted with feeling sad all the time.  It is time to move on.  The sadness will never go, but we all have a life to lead.  At the moment, I feel like I am not living, just existing in a world of sadness.  In 2010, it has to stop.  Just because I don't have children, does it mean that I shouldn't enjoy the rest of my life with my dh and live life to the full ?!!  Fighting talk........wish I felt this strong all the time !!!


----------



## dhikki

Just about to run out the door, but didn't want to read and run!

Libran your right, 2010, we must be strong and look ahead. As much as i and hundreds of others would like to have it all we have to be happy and content with what we have.

I have so much and i'm sure if we all sat down and looked at what we have got we would be shocked. Time to be thankfull i think!!  

I have got your Pm hun, will reply later when i get back!!

Onwards and upwards hey ladies??  

Well we can atleast try!!


----------



## dhikki

Has anyone got a different type of family like me? I currently have 5 doggies, 7 pet mice, 3 gerbils, 1 parrot and my darling horse Wilson!! Oh and my little rescue mini hamster!!

Not like others but they are my children! And i love them all, see i have got other things in my life too!

How is everyone ?  

Maybe would could all club together and change this post to talking about our dear little animal babies and what we all do for fun!

Love to all and ur family what ever shape or size !   Donna x


----------



## dhikki

Hello everyone,

I was just wondering if i could join you? I would find it very helpful to just tag along with your chats about moving on and share with you all what i do to try and fill this void!  

I am determined to be stronger and look ahead to 2010, i will have days when i don't do so well but i promise to try and look at what i have not what i don't! I think i will make this my new years resolution!!          

Love Donna


----------



## Jambo

Hi Donna

Welcome to the thread.  You are MOST welcome, even if, perhaps, it is a thread you never wanted to be posting on.  For me, I'm now very happy here (and wish it hadn't taken 7!! IVFs to discover that!)    New Year is a time to reflect on what has passed and what your future is going to be and I hope that by coming on to this thread you are now beginning to think that you have the ability to shape you future more than you maybe realised as we often feel so powerless whilst having treatment.  

What is everyone else's plans for the New Year? (both the night itself AND plans for the coming year)

For me, we have friends from Belfast staying from tonight until Sunday evening which will be great.  With so much treatment over the years, we've stayed in the last few years so having friends over will kick us up the backside and make us do some stuff so we're meeting some other friends for Hogmanay and going out.  I'm doing dinner for six if us tomorrow and then we're hoping to go for a day out on Saturday.  We'll be meeting up with the boys to watch the footy on Sunday before they leave.  A nice relaxing day on Monday will be essential before returning to work on Tuesday.  

I hope you all have a great time tonight and 2010 turns out to be a really positive year for you.  

Take care

Jayne


----------



## espoir09

I have a DH and a darling 2 year old white boxer dog called George.

He is beautiful and loving and loves nothing more than to entertain his mum and dad and then to curl up on the sofa with his mummy for cuddles.  He really does soothe the ache in my heart.

We got him from a rescue just over a year ago and we both agree it is one of the best things we've ever done.

I know its not the same as having a human baby, but I am his mummy and I love him like he's my baby.

Great idea for a new thread Dhikki, and yes, we all need to build each other up and help each other be more positive.

Happy New Year to you all


----------



## Libran

I have a Jack Russell dog called Billy.  I first caught a glimpse of him at 5 weeks old, and he has been with us ever since.  He is now 9, and he truly is my baby.  He is adorable.  He undersands my moods and gives completely unconditional love and asks for very little in return.  Like you say, Espoir, animals do soothe the ache in your heart.  Unfortunately, he is suffering from arthritis now, so we have been talking about getting another puppy, but I don't want him to feel "pushed out".  We will have to see what 2010 brings.  Donna, sounds like you've got a whole zoo there, hun


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## lots 1

Dh and i have a lovely golden english cocker called 'Crackers' he is nearly 13 but is a real cutie!He is staying with nanny and grandad tonight whilst we go out!!Have a great time tonight ladies  .
Laura.x


----------



## Klingon Princess

I have three animals living with me if you don't count Dh (lol), all of them rescued... Lucy is a black cat and is 11, I got her aged 12 weeks from cat protection league.. Tig is a tortoiseshell, we got her when someone threw her out of a car into the middle of a busy road.  My DH was in the car behind and he stopped and rescued her and she's been with us ever since.  She was about 6 months old then and she still does not like being picked up.. can't blame her really! The final member of our family is Rufus, an 8 year pure white long haired German Shepherd who was rehomed because the old owners said they couldn't cope.  He's been with us just over a year now and he is gorgeous.  there is definite evidence that he has suffered abuse in his past, poor boy!

Anyway, wishing you all a happy new year and may 2010 be better than 2009
love
Kehlan


----------



## Vaudelin

Happy new year ladies!  So lovely to hear about all your furbabies.  I was brought up with a black labrador when I was little and he was just adored by the whole family.  I would love a cat and a dog but DH and I are currently in a first floor flat so it isn't viable.  We are hoping to get a house in the next 12-18 months so will look at our options then.  It's funny cos DH grew up without animals as his mum is not a fan so he thought he wasn't keen on them either.  When he came to my mum's though he just fell in love with her cat (the feeling was mutual) so he has definitely changed his mind!

A quick update - I was in bed with a horrible cold over Christmas and Boxing Day so have still not seen my sister!  It's weird isn't it that my plans to meet up with her keep getting postponed.  I was in bed most of the day and really couldn't have got in the car and driven an hour plus it would not have been fair to give her my germs.  I do feel however that I have turned a bit of a corner - not sure how long it is going to last!  I have decided I am going to concentrate more on me and DH and our first and only go at ICSI rather than wasting energy on negative thoughts towards my sister (and any other pregnant people I come into contact with).  I HAVE to stay positive - for my own sanity mainly.  You lovely ladies here have definitely helped me see the light and given me the strength to do this.  Long may it continue.



x


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## Libran

Vaudelin, I'm sorry to hear you were ill over christmas and ny.  At the very least, the delay in seeing your sister has given you more time to prepare yourself mentally.  I think your decision to concentrate on yourself and your dh is very positive.  Sometimes I think that I expend far too much energy becoming involved in other peoples lives and comparing them (usually unfavourably) to mine, and not enough just concentrating on myself and my dh and what we have going for us together as a couple.  Stay strong and positive, and, if you present a united front, I'm sure that you and your dh can handle it TOGETHER X


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## dhikki

Hi everyone,

I hope you all had a lovely new year, we did, spent the evening at my cousins had a party of about fourty people. Was lots of fun. I had a scary moment though when one of my cousins friends arrived with her 10 week old son Finlay.   I was asked if i wanted to cuddle him, quite quickly i replied i'm so sorry i can't do that, swiftly moved to another room. Feeling like i was gonna burst into tears   But thankfully my hubby had spotted this and came up to rescue me before i started crying! We had a dance and the next time i saw the beautiful baby boy he was asleep in his pram. The rest of the night i avoided the play room where he slept. But it was a good night.

I am so pleased to see so many of you have furbabes!! You won't all think i'm quite so crazy when i talk about mine! My animals are my life i will look at trying to get some picures uploaded!

Love you all Donna x

Vaudelin-   hope your feeling better sweetheart x


P.s    i hope all your furbabies are well and all snuggled up with you in this cold weather x


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## espoir09

Well done Dhikki, I think you handled it really well and your DH was fab.

George likes nothing better than to get into bed with us on a morning for a cuddle and whilst we have been off for Xmas he has been allowed to, probably a little too much.  Tomorrow morning when we go back to work is going to be a shock for him too!


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## Klingon Princess

rufus is too big to be allowed on the bed, although once or twice he's managed it.  I joke to DH that Rufie is a better companion in bed, he does not snore, does not hog the blankets and just settles down and doesnt wriggle about and toss and turn.

Vaudelin, hope your feeling better.

Dhiki, you handled a difficult situation really well, I wish I was as brave as you


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## Vaudelin

Just wanted to say well down Dhikki - sounds like you handled that situation really well.  I think I would have done the same. Sounds like you have a fab DH - what would we do without them?

I am feeling much better thanks.  Just a horrid cold.  My PMA is still with me which I am so glad about!  I really hope it stays.  Last year I read "Love Life, Live Life" by Sue Stone which is all about positive thinking and stopping negative thoughts.  I am about to read it again just so I can keep this PMA up.  

x


----------



## dhikki

Hi everyone,

Well i have had a busy day getting ready for work tomorrow! I have been trying to get back into the work zone all day!! But not doing so well.   Thats the only problem with having a 2 week break!! Grrr.....  

I got all my house clean and tidy, caught up with a pile of ironing. Took my 5 dog's out for a long walk in the snow. Then went to the stables to get all my stable chores done. went out for a fab ride on Wilson, was really cold but we had a blast. We cantered up the main gallops and put up 4 red dear was an amazing sight, Wilson then thought he should keep up with them as they dissapeard over the horizon!! Was brilliant if a little too fast!!!!   

How is everyone? Love to you all Donna and my gang of furbabies!


----------



## Libran

Donna, just wanted to say well done   for the way you handled the ny party situation.  
I am feeling a little low tonight.  My DH was made redundant, but has just found a new job 120 miles away. So, for the first time since we married, 11 years ago, we are apart.  He'll be back at the weekend, but it is at times like this that IF becomes, for me, such a big issue.  I feel that if I had kids running around the house to focus on and distract me, I would be fine.  As it is, we only have each other, so the loss and his absence is very acute.  It doesn't help, Vaudelin, that I am now sharing your flu and rapidly losing my voice.  So, me and my furbaby have taken up residence on the sofa, under the douvet, with hot water bottle.  Just a shame DH isn't here to fetch me cups of tea  
Klingon Princess - just you try keeping my furbaby OFF the bed at nights - world war 3 would break out !


----------



## dhikki

Libran, just wanted to say keep your chin up babe. It is awful that your dh is away from home, and yes i do understand what you mean about bringing the childless house more to your mind! And now to top it all you have the flu! Oh babe take this hug hope it helps....   

Just dashing off to eat my dinner and i'll be back Love Donna x


----------



## dhikki

Well girls, i hope you are all doing better than me at the positive new year thinking. I have been tested to the limit with it and failed. I cannot tell you all how desperate and sad i am  

We are in the first week of jan and i am a wreck. Three days ago i started to get pain in my tummy, i ignored it as i was sure it would be another cyst. 

Long story but i ended up in hospital. I have had loads of tests, and i have two large cysts on both ovaries. I have four unexplained masses in my womb lining. Which could be endo cysts or the start of fibroids and they are testing for cancer cells. They have opted to leave me without surgery at present unless i get worse, because in his opinion my ovaries and womb lining isn't viable. I am so heavily scarred that he is worried when they remove the cysts, it could cause my ovaries to be damaged and if they were to start bleeding they would have to be removed. He has advised me strongly not too have unprotected sex with my hubby, because he feels sure i couldn't get preggers and if i did he cannot see how my womb could support a pregnancy.    He wants me to go on the mini pill to try and help my poor cycles,   How can he want me to take a tablet to help stop me from becoming pregnant?   But how wrong would i be to try and get pregnant with what he has told me.......  

Then this morning i have had another letter from st barts, to say that they have kept and will keep my 5 souls on ice until the 20 th april 2010 afetr this date they will be allowed to perish............ I am heart broken   I can't take all this, how much can one person tak before it all gets to much?


Sorry for the me post everyone. I hope you are all ok and doing much better than me


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## Kazzz

Dhikki - Just wanted to send you some  .


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## espoir09

Oh Dhikki my love, I'm so sorry.

I really don't know what to say to you, but I'm sending you lots of love and hugs  .


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## dhikki

Thank you ladies...

It just always seeme the same, you try and get yourself on your feet and deal with it. Then something comes along and knocks you sidewards    It is so hard to keep getting yourself back on your feet after each blow.........

The hardest thing for me is having the scans, when your sat there waiting in the scan area, all the countless women there for happy baby scans. With the excitement etc and i know all they are gonna report to me is fluid filled sacks of rubbish, that damage my womb and ovaries even more  

I don't want to be me anymore


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## espoir09

Its going to take some time to come back from this one, sweetie.  If you need to hide in a dark place for a little while, we will certainly understand and just remember we will be here waiting when you're ready to face the world again.


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## Libran

Donna, hun, I am devastated for you and just don't know what I can say that would be of any use or bring you any comfort.  I am sending you all my love and a huge, massive  
If it is of ANY comfort at all, please know that I am thinking of you at this difficult time and wish you all the best.
Take as much support from your loving dh as you can.  Thinking of you XX


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## Klingon Princess

Donna, I'm so sorry, life can be really difficult at times.  just a thought, but can you ask Barts to store the embryos for a longer period, I know it'll cost money but its worth asking.  My clinic were happy to store mine as long as I wanted provided I paid of course.


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## dhikki

Hi All, thanks for your support and kindness  

I have spent most of the weekend in a lot of pain, now got all the af signs. Sofeeling yuck from that too now! I have swallowed so many pain killers i am starting to rattle!!  

This afternoon though it has settled down a little more. Haven't taken any tablets for atleast 3 hours so thats an improvement.

Just can't stop crying, i feel so alone, even though my hubby and all of you are here i feel so lonely...... 

Klingon princess- Thank you very much for your advise, the sad thing is i already know they would keep them longer but i am not allowed to do anymore tx, which is why i am on this section of ff. But it is very kind of you to help thank you  

How is everyone?

Sorry for all these ME posts.

Love to all


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## dhikki

P.S

Do any of you know if i would be able to and how i would go about donating my souls on ice ??

Tough thing to talk about, but it seems such an awful thing to let them just perish they are so precious x


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## Kazzz

Dhikki.

O hun, words seem so useless right now, life is so bl***dy unfair. Glad to hear the pain has eased, get plenty of rest.
I can't help with donating your souls on ice but i'm sure someone will come along. I think you are a very brave person, you and Dh are in my  .

 Kazzz


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## Klingon Princess

Donna, I'm so sorry, I didnt mean to make things more difficult for you.  I really admire your srength and courage.


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## dhikki

Kazzz- Thank you  

Klingon princess- Don't be daft hun you weren't to know  

I'm feeling a little better today, health wise. I've been up since 6 am and haven't taken any tablets since 4am this morning. I haven't been back long from the stables, my hubby helped me but i managed to do more today than i have since tuesday last week. He has been wonderful. He has had to go off to work today and is worried but i do feel stronger than i have. He hasn't talked to me at all though and that worries me....  I hope he doesn't feel as alond and sad as i do!!  

How is everyone today?

Love to you all and thanks to everyone xx


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## espoir09

Donna

Just a thought, but have you thought about using a surrogate for your souls on ice?  

I'm sure you've considered all the options and I know that that would not be an option for me, but I thought I would put it out there.

I can understand that you feel lonely, because even though we're all going through similar journeys, there's only you in your head who truly knows how you're doing.

Sending you lots of hugs


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## dhikki

Espoir09- I would dearly love to try surrogacy, and it does sit perfectly well with me and my darling hubby, but sadly it is quite simply the money. It costs so much and i am the first to say not enough money in the world would be enough for this wonderful act of human kindness, but sadly our income just wouldn't reach it!


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## dhikki

My wonderful cousin would carry my baby for me, but her hubby doesn't feel the same way sadly


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## espoir09

I'm sorry hun.  If I ever win the lottery you're at the top of my list.

Back in 04 my best friend lost an ovary and a fallopian tube to the biggest cyst on record (25 x 30cm)  and I told her that I would be her surrogate.

It never occurred to me that I might have a problem having a baby


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## Bambam

dhikki i'm so sorry you're having such a tough time at the moment hon      it does seem to be that life is throwing one thing after another at you at the moment and it's tough enough having to deal with our childless futures without added complications    you so truly deserve some happiness hon.

I hope you don't mind me asking but have you and your DH thought about fostering or adoption? it always sounds like you have so much love to give a child 

Also i've not attended any of Meredith's sessions but the girls who have all seem to say they helped tremendously. 

Amanda xx

PS As the Christmas thread was turning into a chat thread and we're now in the new year i've merged it with the other one. hope that's ok with everyone


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## Vaudelin

Just wanted to say that I'm thinking of you Dhikki and hoping that things start to get better for you.  Hang on in there. x


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## 11th hour

your cousins hubby is a total *******.I hate small spirited people like that. Met many in my infertilty journey. However you cant let them perish, It ill really screw your head up. How much does it cost to use a surrogate. sell everything. just do it.


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## beachgirl

Donna


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## 11th hour

I think that one of my problems is that  have absolutely no ideology at all anymore. I dont have anything to hold onto when times get bad and that is a very srange feeling. I cant fins reasons to live, nor can i find a reason not to. Also knowing my luck, i would be made to come back a thousand times and live as a medieval serf or the  equivalent...
I gave up TTx after one go... a bit pathetic... but I was doind it alone, no man, just a sperm donor, i put on masses of eight and go very depressed straight after, which i put down a lot to the drugs. I felt that seeing the stats of so many other people doind it several times and failing..how many times was I going to do this to my body and mind..  i was also 43/44 so that contributed to assesing the viability of the situation.  To be honest, all that weight gain has made me feel sexually invisible..plus being mid forties. 
I hoped that getting love from a partner could help me move on but I havnt been offered anything.

I think the fertility drugs pushed my already fragile thyroid problems over the edge and i have put on two stone. 

One of my many frustrations that women in couples cant understand, is that I never had the chance to keeping trying as i didnt have the opportunity to have sex. I only had the vial of sperm.

I threw myself into work and since then I have also moved from London to Lyon as I got a job in an internatioal school. I was hoping to distract myself from my own 'little tragic story' but in fact as I am very lonely and vunerable and unsupported, I am closer to it than ever. so there you go... you cant run away. Ha ha. so here I am, a middle aged spinster. How the hell did I get here? At my age, pretty much everyone has kids and its how you get to meet people. I notice Im more comfortabl making frends with people whose childrem are much older and also with Gay men. Its like Im destined to be a celibate *** hag.

So yes, im depressed. ive given it all a go and been jolly brave and yes i can send myself lot of   et'c for being 'brave' but basically I feel like this all the time   .


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## DippyGirl

Hiya 11th hour - I remember that lovely smile from the thyroid thread, sorry to hear you having such a tough time, IVF drains your reserves and I can emphatise how lonely this all is then multiply by ten cos you are in a strange country. 

Someone once explained to me that an old soul will get / choose the greatest challenges - do you think that you are an 'old soul'?

On the living overseas front I don't know if it helps but I found joining an expat women's group really helped me to settle a little there are probably some other women (or indeed single men) out there that you could get to know, I find that I on't like everyone but we have being strangers in another country in common at least. Perhaps if you haven't already found a group you could consider for 2010.

http://www.newcomersclub.com/fr.html#Lyon
http://www.internations.org/expats/members/france/lyon/british

D x

/links


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## 11th hour

Thankyou  for that..


Hmm  im not so sure 'an old soul', I have asked myself that before, but I dont think so... I think you can recognise the old souls  syndrome in people when they are much younger. I dont think I ever had that or that it was a thing people said to me hen when I was a kid. I just feel my soul has recently become so much older in the past few years. 

The not having kids thing, as someone put in in another thread, is that you are forever denied access to being part of biggest club in the world and that being part of that club validates you at a core level. Your femininity, your womanhood. It stick labels on you that you didnt choose..( oh a career woman)but you neither can you have access to  being part of the mens club. The club you can belong to is the Misfits  club. I genuinely feel  ashamed  and disappointed by my middle aged spinster status. I remember reading Anita Brookners "Look at me" in my early 20's and thought it was so horribly depressing.Now i have become that character. Anita Brookner didnt marry or have kids either.

I was once quite a groovy popular remarkable young thing, but like everyone, the onset of middle age makes you face your own mortality and that your time has peaked. Most people, even if they are hardly aware of it, have the the question of thier own legacy on earth automatically anwsered by having children. Other wise you 'fade to nothing' ( and im quoting a recent Eastenders line here). I think that it is the fact I feel that I am fading to nothing that is where im stuck.  I am watching my parents , now in their 70's begin to really turn elderly and start to accept that their time is drawing slowly to a close and i can see that the fact that they left a mark of their existence though their children and grandchildren is a comfort to them. 

I will never have that and I really dont know what I can replace it with to comfort myself.  I feel like  have already died and i am a ghost in my own life.  I go through the motion of functioning for the sake of others;  my parents, my sister, my niece and I have many times thought that I am just waiting for my parents to shuffle off and my niece to grow up, so that i can bugger off without causing too much damage. 

Im just hanging on in the hope  that the 'you never know whats around the corner' adage is true.

Anyway... sorry.. what were we saying?...ah yes psychics... hmmmm


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## Klingon Princess

11th hour... just a small thought... what do you do for a living?  I ask because if you feel your life is worthless and pointless, there may be some small changes you can make. I have always asked myself "Is the world a better place for my being here in it?"  I'm not sure the answer is yes but I try...I'm involved with fundraising for Macmillan and am thinking at the moment about getting some type of voulntary work with disabled children.  I'm not saying you have to do either of those thing but maybe there is a purpose to your life that you are not yet aware of.

Just to comment on something you also said earlier... "One of my many frustrations that women in couples cant understand, is that I never had the chance to keeping trying as i didnt have the opportunity to have sex. I only had the vial of sperm."  
I am married so the sex is there obviously, but my husband is azoospermic.  I can have as much as I like and it will never happen that way for me.  I do understand exactly how you are feeling.

My god-daughter who had two m/c by the time she was 15, has been told she will likely never carry to term.  she said something to me which really struck a cord.  Reproduction is a basic instinct off ALL living creatures, is in fact one of the definitions of life.  She said that any idiot high on drugs and alcohol can get pregnant without even trying/by acident and yet she can't do something so fundamental to our existance and that it made her feel completely useless and worthless.  she is anything but of course and neither am I... and neither are any of you....yet I suspect we all feel that way.

I'm rambling... better get to bed before I get myself into trouble


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## 11th hour

I work in education...yes,  i get something out of it, but i don't think I'm in a space where it works for me to give too much. I think i need to give to myself and build back up a bank of personal energy before i give it away. I actually resent giving my energy away. I don't have it to give. I need life to full my well up first. ( the up side of this realisation.. is that a bloke did  actually flirt with me the other night (( for the first time in over 4 years)) but I could see that he had nothing to give, he too is the walking wounded. I ve always been a 'giver'  and 'supporter' in relationships. Not intentionally. I just naively didn't see when a man had nothing to give, and got sucked dry when it was me that needed support. At least now  that I'm face to face with my own crippling fragility, i finally know when to decline the offer. Huh, talk about wisdom being hard earned!

I completely agree with your god daughter. I say that having children is an existential act more than anything else. Ive been saying this for ages but its not much discussed in forums. Everyone goes down the social conscience route of discussion, eg all those needy children in the world/the planet is too full etc. To which I unfashionably answer' -  so lets support the  social rights of choice for women in poor/fascist countries then, so that Western European women can have the right to breed without recrimination returned to us. As it is our existential right after all as much as anyones else. 


I take what you are saying that although you have a lover, the  cosmic joining babymaking part of lovemaking doesn't fulfill that function in your lovelife. I think my frustration on that front was that the doc could not find anything wrong with me in terms of fertility and so i hoped that by having that chance of having sex that at least it gave me the chance of a pregnancy each month as my last decent eggs were being released. That was like a double injustice.

I think I could get over this baby thing a whole lot better if I just had a lovely bloke and a  part-time job that i wanted to get up for in the morning with a little bit of time for myself beyond just surviving.


----------



## Rowan22

Hi 11th hour,

I liked your last sentence. I have both of those things - and he's the best fella in the world! But the urge to have children just won't go away. 
My other half does try to support me and it's great to have that but there does come a point when he doesn't know what to say anymore. Plus, of course, the problem's not with him, it's me and my ageing body. My knees ache with this cold and I think one's just locked itself!
I agree with your comments about the expanding population, though I'm not sure that having dozens of kids like some people do in the States is necessarily a good idea. 
I don't want eight or nineteen, I only want one! And I have another birthday this month! Oh, I hate the things!
Career woman? No, no chance. (I wish!) I spent all my thirties being seriously ill. 
Klingon Princess, your goddaughter is right and the basic biological urge won't go away, I think. 
My dear husband still thinks some of my eggs might be all right but I don't know whether this body will support a pregnancy. 
There is one thing I try to bear in mind, the greatest women writers in this country were all childless. I don't suppose that gives you any comfort at all, does it?! I do try to tell myself that perhaps I'm meant to do something else but it doesn't help when I see cute little toddlers in Tescos!
Beware the walking wounded. Been there; done that. It's your nurturing instinct working overtime. 
Is there anything else you can do to give yourself a reason to get up in the morning? I'm thinking of joining a yoga class as I've got to do something to improve my health!
You sound utterly exhausted. Isn't there any way you could have a short break, just get away for a bit? You might need time out just to unwind. 

Rowanx


----------



## 11th hour

I think ive been in shock for some time and still am and it is about The total shock that it isnt going to happen for me like everyone else.  You that shock you get hen a bloke dumps you or is unfathfull, and you wonder around in a how dare he/could he shocked state? I think i feel similar.  How dare it/ how could it not work out for me!!! yes, I am still agast at it at.

When Ive finally processed that, god know how long it will take, i'll probably pull through and other stuff ill start flowing through me. 

When I decided to give up ttx, i started drinkinga lot more. partly cos i could now, and partly cos nothing really mattered anymore.  Not drinking tons but there have been moments when I thought some people  might consider I was edging towards alcoholism.And frankly if I hadnt had to get up a 6.30 am and teach a bunch of hard core girls everyday, id have taken any interesting class A/psychdelic substance that came my way. Im no good on comedowns and as we all know, Im not as young as I was...

Ive also started spending my money a lot more. I treat myself more and am more generous to my friends.  I say ;" i'll get it " a lot more than i used to. Its part of the what does it all matter feeling, money means nothing -  but maybe its not such a bad side effect. 

I spend years saving money for stuff, buying a flat, ttx getting stability in my life in case I had a child, in fact training to be a teacher was part of it.  Now i feel , sod it, spend the lot. Ive only me to think of. yes I will have another expensive margarita cocktail!.

I filmed myself while doing the IVf. I havn't had the emotionsl courage to look at the footage since I did it. It might just be me jabbing needles into my thighs in toilets in prague, crying " no-one should have to have a baby like this". I am now feeling that I could look at it and have a go at doing something with it. 

I am conscious that I have hijacked this psychic thread. I should have asked the mod to stck it on its own thread as the psychic one is a good one.


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## Debs

11th hour  

This if malarky completly takes over our lifes.  I still dont know 100% how im going to live the rest of my life without children - I cant think that far ahead   but now I dospend money on me more, I go out with friends more and try and get away on holidays or breaks away as much as I can.  Its not a substitute - but its the best i can do.  Im lucky i have got someone to share the pain with but i honestly do understand where you are coming from.

But i want to tell you something.  I dont know you from Adam.  I have only come across you on the site tonight whilst reading your posts - but - you sound such a lovely person and a strong one at that.  You think about your parents your neice etc - someone would be very lucky to have you in their life  

I hope i dont offend you when i ask if you have ever thought about dating agencys - ok you might not find mr right straight away - but you could have some fun  

If you would like me to i can split this thread into the general chat thread or indeed create one especially for you.  Let me know and I will sort it for you.

Take care

Love

Debs xxx


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## Rowan22

11th hour,

I'm with you on the shock thing - another part of my body not working properly!
What do you teach? I work in education, too but it's not in schools and it's part time. Last time I tried working full time I got sick again! This sector doesn't really pay very well and if it did, I'd be looking at my options. I'd like to have at least one try with something like donor eggs or surrogacy. As it is, every route is blocked. 
Why not spend the money if you can? I think there are definitely times when a bit of retail therapy is a very good idea! Go for it! 

Rowanx


----------



## dhikki

Hello everyone, thank you all for your kind words and support  

Bambam - thanks for merging our thread, even more people to talk too  

11th hour- i do agree with you about my cousins hubby, but i do try to see it from his point of view too. They have 2 children ( my wonderful god children) and both my cousin and her DH want more. It a perfect world they hope to have four children. They split up a couple of years ago. Long story and not my business but my cousin then was well up for being my host surrogate. We got quite a long way down the road and i dared to think it might happen. But then good for them not for us, they got back together and my hopes were lost. Sadly he is from a very religious back ground and he feels that if your meant to have children it would happen. He doesn't even agree with IVF. Yes he is small minded but some people are...... 

Espoir09- Do you think you could win the lottery quite soon, i don't like waiting!!   
              Your such a kind person thank you  

How is everyone else? Libran are you OK Hun? 

Love to all of you Donna xx


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## dhikki

Sorry a little post all about me know!! How shallow!!  

Well i woke up last night in quite a lot of pain, got back to sleep thankfully quite quickly. I have woken up today with the most aful period. My tummy is very swollen. My boobs are copying jordan!! And talk about spots, i don't have any free skin on my face!!  

I hope to get my blood results tomorrow or friday and that will help improve my mood i think. They are cheking to se if i have any cancer cells, becuase of the 3 smallish masses in my womb lining. I have another scan tomorrow to see if anything has changed on my ovaries, but so far i have escaped the operaion so hav to be pleased for small mercies   I went into work didn't do much myself but bossed people about, atleast that helped give me something else to think about. 

My darling hubby still hasn't mentioned a word about it all, and that worries me as i don't know how he is feeling or what he is thinking about it all. I keep telling myself that he is being silent about it all so he doesn't upset me. I hope thats all it is  

Has anyone got some good tips on how i try to start making 2010 a little more positive. Even my horse is grumpy and miserable i think he feels the spring grass will never get here!!  

Sorry for the me post........... Donna x


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## Libran

Hi Donna, Hi Everyone !
Donna, I think you are being incredibly brave and strong, and I send you all my love and support  
I know your dh has been such a massive support to you in the past, and I hope that you two can pull together and support each other through this too.  Have you read Men are from Mars Women from Venus ?  It basically says that men and women deal with a crisis in completely different ways - women want to talk it over (with as many people as possible - hence the popularitiy of this board, I guess !) whilst men retreat in to their own private shell to process the information and to deal with it.  Sounds to me like this is what your dh is doing now.  I'm sure he is incredibly worried about you, and probably scared, and he is trying to deal with it as best he knows how.  
As for your cousins husband, I had a religious friend like that too who, despite years of IF, refused all IVF treatment.  I used to think that meant that her pain at IF could not be as deep as mine.  I believe differently now.  We all deal with things in different ways and shouldn't really judge others.  No-one walks exactly the same path as us in life.  If surrogacy is out, how about adoption ?
I wish I had the magic words to make 2010 better.  Personally, I keep waiting for the hurt to "go away" and come to an end.  However, I am rapidly realising that the pain will never end - it is just comes and goes (sometimes bearable, othertimes acute and life-stopping) and it is just a question of learning to live with it and taking pleasure in any small thing in your life that you can.
Keep us posted with an update on your blood tests.
Love to all XX


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## dhikki

Hi Libran- lovely to hear from you hun. Your right in everything you have said as normal!! Apart from me being brave and strong!! 

I have been reading on some websites about embryo donating......   feel so sad that it has finally come to this. But if i could help stop one person/couple feeling the way i do each and every day surely it would be worth that!  

It will break my heart whatever we decide to do with our souls in ice but anything would be better than simply allowing them to perish. After all so much heartache and tears went into getting them in the first place.......... 

I just want to decide, i want to do something and feel under so much pressure because April will soon be here..........


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## Bambam

Hi Everyone   

Just to let you know I've just merged another thread in to here that had turned in to a chat thread

Amanda xx


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## dhikki

Amanda more people to talk too your spoiling us now!!


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## Bambam




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## espoir09

I feel like we should have a waiter handing out ferrero rochers!

DHikki, I've been trying to make 2010 more positive too.  I've had depression for much of the 3 years we've been ttc (given our family histories, we assumed it would happen straight away for us) and I'm sick to the back teeth of feeling like this.

Coping with IF is hard enough, but trying to wade through the depression on top is siomply exhausting and I'm coming to the end of my tether with it all.

I'm trying to be positive, I've booked in for reflexology and for acupuncture (both starting in a couple of weeks) and for DH's Xmas and bday presents, I've bought us lovely treats to look forward to - Green Day tickets and a trip to Prague at the weekend.

Then we're going to Cuba in about 8 weeks.

I'm trying very hard to remember that this is my only life and that if I waste it by allowing the IF and depression to beat me, it will be me that loses out in the long term.

So far I haven't done brilliantly well, I spent much of Monday in tears (God bless my secretary who has been wonderful throughout) as I had 3 pg / birth announcements in 2 hours and it was just so hurtful as AF arrived Sunday.

Still, I have picked myself back up and today I have managed to smile and laugh.  Score 1 to me - 0 to IF and depression.

I certainly couldn't do it without the support of all you wonderful people who gave me the strength to come out of my dark hole just before Xmas.  Without you, I'd still be there, so thank you


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## Bambam

your wish is my command.... here you go girls


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## espoir09




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## dhikki

Think i will put on weight with this thread!

  

Thanks Amanda!! Can i order raspberry Pavlova please??


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## dhikki

Espoir09,- Wow you are trying to look forward, well done you. Can i come to Cuba please?  

Not everyones bag i know, but i had some healing and a massage Saturday night, not sure if the healing did much good but i am still standing and not had any op's yet so who knows  .

The massage was fab, so relaxing. Just a little me time was nice. I haven't suffered with depression well not confirmed by a gp anyway, but i did suffer major panic attacks last year. That really kicked me side ways. You are so right having this wonderful site and each other it helps so much. I hate to think where i would be if i couldn't hide away in my office and chat to everyone on here  


 

Not sure if you agree with me espoir09, but i thought Amanda could have supplied us with a sexy hunk waiter!!


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## Bambam

I don't know there's just no pleasing some people!! DP wasn't overly happy at dressing up for us all and insisted I not include his face   










Meanwhile i popped in the kitchen and quickly knocked this up for you dhikki










Hope they've helped bring a smile to your faces ladies

Amanda xx


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## dhikki

Amanda- Tell your DP he is no fun!!  

Thank you so much for our pavlova- sorry ladies i am not sharing  


Thanks Amanda You have made me smile x x


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## espoir09

Me too, thank you you lovely ladies you.

Dhikki - that's one of my (many) problems - if I decide to do something I have to do it a 150% full overdrive.  I decided we needed lots of fun things to do and I've gone at it a bit!

DH doesn't even know we're going away yet.  Its his birthday present tomorrow morning!!!!

I am so excited, its been so hard to keep it a secret.

x


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## Kazzz

Oh Gosh - a few threads have merged, just sending   while i read back and  catch up.


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## dhikki

Kazzz- I have to keep reading back too as forgot what we are talking about, all i do know is that Amanda put the pavlova on just for me!!!    How are you?

Espoir09- I am so pleased that you and your hubby are getting sometime away together. I wouldn't have been able to keep it a secret   I hope you have the best time, enjoy,   do let us all know what you get up to, well not all that you get up too   

Love to all Donna x


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## Kazzz

I wouldn't share the pavlova either   

What a day i've had. I'm totally snowed in, had to walk half a mile to meet my dad ( he was taking me in the tractor, yes i'm a hill billy farmers daughter in Wales - snow over the wellies, took many detours but eventually got to work an hour and a half later ( usually takes 10 minutes). Did an hours work  , chip butty for lunch then another crazy drive home this time with my mum in the landy - had to dig her out as we got stuck and walk the last 200 yards ( bag very heavy as had supply of wine for this evening  ). Ohh and we ran out of heating oil last week - Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr. 

Dhikki - you did ask  . Massage sounds lovely - but i'm a bit prudish and don't fancy getting my fatty flesh out. Do you ride often, it's one of the things i'm planning on doing this year - we had a horse when i was little, but i'm scared now - hoping to have some lessons this year. I lurve bossing people about to  .    for the next few days. 

Espoir09 - i'm rubbish at keeing secrets - i get over hyper excited. 

Bambam - can we have profiteroles to share pleassssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

  to all.

Kazzz


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## Libran

Amanda, what is with this raspberry pavlova rubbish ?!!  Where are the chocolate eclairs / profiteroles ?!! 
Espoir09 - going to Cuba sounds fantastic, a real tonic.  Hope your dh enjoyed his birthday surprise this morning.  I'm sure you will have a great trip.  I've read a couple of times on this board that "fancy holidays" are no substitute for kids.  That is true.  But we have to live this life, with or without children, so go for it !  It may not be a "substitute", but at least you are living rather than just existing.
Dhikki - hun, I'll be thinking of you and your blood test results / investigations.  Keep strong, and keep taking as much joy and pleasure as you can in your darling dh and all the furbabies (is Wilson in a better mood yet ?!).
Kazz - it's great to meet you on the thread.  I'm with you on massages - sounds lovely in theory but a bit embarrasing in practice ?
Just quickly, has anyone else had experience of dealing with panic attacks ?  I've suffered on and off for quite some time now (they started with avengence when my sister announced her first pregnancy).  They are under control now, but I still find the force of them quite frightening.
Love to all XX


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## espoir09

Morning everyone

Kazz - hello, nice to meet you, your adventures in the tractor yesterday sound like fun.  I got stuck in the snow this morning and my neighbour very kindly pushed me out

Dhikki - promise not to tell you everything we get up to, although there are a couple more surprises waiting for him in Prague (I had a little trip to a certain high street store whose name rhymes with Manne Dummers!!) 

He is very excited which is really nice.  Hope you're feeling better, maybe planning a few nice things for your diary would help cheer you up a bit.  Let me know if you want some help with that, I love planning and organising things, and it would be nice to help you feel more positive

Libran - massages are wonderful. Once you've got over the initial embarrassment, you'll be signing up for them every week.  You're exactly right on the holidays point.  I would swap every holiday I have left for a BFP, but I can't do that.  With my depression I have done nothing but exist for 3 years and its time I got on with making the most of what I have.  

Sorry to hear about the panic attacks, I don't know what to say, other than have you thought about counselling? 

Love
E


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## dhikki

Kazzzz- sounds like your having loads of fun, I'm Glad the white stuff is on it's way now here in Norfolk. Me and my animals have had just about enough of the bloody stuff! Apart from maybe Wilson who now thinks he is in retirement!!   It has been to bad to ride in it! I normally try and ride everyday i have a 15.2 heavy weight brabant gelding. He looks just like a suffolk punch. You should start riding it is so much fun.Don't be scared just enjoy!  

 Libran- Wilson is happy this morning because most of the snow has melted from his field, but now he has to swim through the flood at his gate! I think he enjoys splashing me with muddy water though   I hope to get back to riding next week when i feel more like my normal self, shh i haven't told Wilson yet!!  

 Espoir09- sounds like you have lots of good stuff planned for you both!! Is it wrong to be jealous? I want to go away now!!   I will take you up on your offer to help me organise things once I'm back to normal, which could take a while   Have lots of fun while your away!  

Libran- I had panic attacks last year, struggled for weeks, wouldn't leave the house in nearly three months walked out of my job as i couldn't leave home etc. My doctor was of no use at all, the last time i saw him he told me to write myself a letter! Because he wanted me to write down how i felt about not becoming a mum   I stormed out, bought myself a packet of **** after being smoke free for 8 months. I cried my eyes out and then was determined to get myself back to normal. It took ages and i still get in a panic if i feel i can't escape or get home the minute i want too, but i would say i am dealing with it now. How do you cope?  

Well girls, i had an awful night last night just couldn't sleep a wink, gave in and got up at 3 am this morning, left my hubby snuggled and sleeping soundly   I don't feel too bad today apart from the most awful period pains that i have had in a long long time! 
I spent a lot of time looking on the web yesterday reading info about donating my 5 souls on ice to a couple that might have a chance with them. I feel so sad when i think about it, still not talked to my hubby about any of it! I do think though that it would be so much better to give them a chance with a couple rather than let them perish./ How would you all feel about it? Anyone else have souls on ice that they don't know what to do? Any advise or thoughts from you lovely lot good or bad would be very welcome i do need some help with this..... 

Love to each and everyone of us Donna x


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## espoir09

Dhikki - of course its not wrong to be jealous - I will make room for you in my suitcase and then you don't need to be jealous.

I think that if it was me I would agree with you that I would prefer to give them to someone else rather than let them perish.

However, I think I would be tempted to hold onto them for a bit longer, just in case things change.  I may win the lottery for you next week, or there may be something else that happens which means that you could use them.

At the end of the day though, you have to do what is right for you and your DH.  I am a firm believer that you will know when you've arrived at your decision.  And whatever that is, we're here as much as we possibly can be for you

I find tossing a coin helps.  If the outcome you get isn't the one that you really want, you will keep tossing the coin, it just helps you work out what your decision is.


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## Libran

Donna, I think you need to give some serious consideration as to exactly HOW you would feel if another woman became pregnant with your "souls on ice".  If you are honest, how much pain would that cause you ?  You then have to weigh that up against the pain that you would feel if they were allowed to perish.  A heart wrenching (devil v deep blue sea) choice, I know, and I don't want to make light of the seriousness of it in any way whatsoever.  I would certainly, delay making the decision for as long as you possibly can.  However, at the end of the day, you have to do what is best for you.  If you would gain comfort from donating them, then do it.  If it would cause you too much pain, then don't.
Espoir, I think I need your help in planning some good things for the future too.  Any suggestions ?  I have thought about counselling but decided against it.  I know all the theory, life is still worth living even without children etc etc, it is putting that into practice that is the hard bit.  I don't think that any counsellor can really help with that.  I deal with the panic attacks by trying to regulate and slow down breathing (they are generally caused by hyperventilating). 
Where ARE those profiteroles that Amanda promised ?!!!    I think we could all use a self-indulgent calorific treat.


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## dhikki

How awful am I, my cousin in law called tonight she is pregnant.... after 2 years of ttc. I am totally heartbroken, didn't think i could cry this much     Can't even face calling her back to say congrats. I'm such an awful person all i've managed is a message on ********...........


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## espoir09

Oh Dhikki my darling.  Of course you're not an awful person.  You've just had some awful news and you are grieving.  To then hear that someone else's pain is over, is not what you need to hear right now.  It hurts all the more of course it does.

I think you did well to send the message on ********.  When you're ready you will call.  Don't push yourself to do something before you're ready.

Libran - what kind of things do you and DH like to do together?  I think we need to plan you some together things and then some treats just for you.  I know what you mean about the theory and putting it into practice.  I think its up to us to make it worth living.  Hence my manic schedule of treats for the next few months!

I would be honoured to be the thread's treat and nice things organiser!


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## Bambam

Sorry Libran it took me most of yesterday to make the profiteroles 

Enjoy!!












espoir09 said:


> I would be honoured to be the thread's treat and nice things organiser!


Espoir i think that's a great idea 

Amanda xx


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## Libran

Donna, hun, my heart aches for you.  It aches for us all.  I totally 100% agree with Espoir.  You did amazingly well to send a message on ********.  If your cousin has been ttc for 2 years, I am sure she will understand your feelings. You are most certainly not an awful person.  It is not the case that you are not happy for her, you are simply grieving for yourself too.  That is totally natural.  Believe me, I am sure that I have had much worse thoughts towards pregnant women !
Had a bad day myself yesterday.  Had to draft a will for a couple expecting their first child, and had to be all "smiley" and "happy" whilst making sure their unborn child was duly provided for.  Inside, I was dying.  Now, today, I have to go and buy a card and pressie for my friend who has just had a boy (she was ttc for 10 years).  Not sure I can face it.  How AWFUL does that make ME ?!!
Espoir, I definitely think you should be thread organiser.  DH is football / sport mad, but I'm not.  The main thing we do together is walk our dog and pub meals out.  We would love a camper van so that we could take off all over the country at weekends, but no funds.  Sorry if I have just made us sound really nerdy & boring & Howard and Hilda-ish - I promise you that is not the case.  We don't wear matching jumpers !


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## Libran

Amanda - thanks for the profiteroles.  Yum !!  
HOW MANY CALORIES ?!!!


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## Kazzz

Hello

You ladies are all so strong - i ignore texts re pg news, send cards and money to friends that have had new babies and avoid christenings - how awful am i ?  - this is the only way i can keep myself out of the darker days. You all are amazing.

Dhikki - you are NOT awful - i think you were fantastic sending a message. Your having such a tough time at the moment you need to put you first and be selfish for once. 

Espoir09 - Yeah our own party organiser   - what a fab idea. Looking forward to hearing ideas and plans.

Amanda - thank you for profiteroles - anyone need a spoon.

Libran - I have visions of Howard and Hilda   

Hello to anyone i've missed.

Repeat after me  'I AM NOT AMFUL' 'I AM NOT AWFUL' 


 

Kazzz


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## dhikki

Thank you everyone x


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## Kazzz

Dhikki - Just wondering how your doing and sending you some cyber   .


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## Libran

Hope everyone is having a good weekend.
Donna, I'm thinking of you and sending you huge    I know it will take you a while to bounce back (each bounce back takes a little longer than the last, doesn't it ?!) but we are all here for you.  Let us know how you are doing.
Kazzz - hope you are OK too.  I suggested to my DH that he change his name by Deed Poll to Howard, but, funnily enough, he wasn't too impressed.  Can't think why ?!!    Now, where DID I put my sensible shoes ?!!  
Espoir - where abouts in Cuba are you off to ?  Have been to Prague, and absolutely loved it.  I'm sure you will too.
I've been distracted this weekend by thoughts of moving.  We now have a definite moving date of Jan 29th.  I'm terrifed, excited, nervous all at the same time.......


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## dhikki

Hello everyone,

Thanks for your kind messages. We have had a quiet weekend, apart from going to the stables we have just just the world away and spent our weekend together. Just us and out 5 doggies. Spent a lot of US time was lovely just what we both needed i think.

Feeling a little stronger today. My period is almost gone, so that helps me to feel better. Just waiting for my blood results that is my next hurdle! 

How is everyone else??

Love to you all Donna x


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## Bambam

dhikki glad the witch is on her way out and you and dh had a nice weekend together  

sending your lots of     for your blood tests.

afm i've been feeling very overwhelmed by everything over the last couple of weeks but had a good chat with dp and got everything off my chest and am feeling much more positive about things. am now trying to get on and get some semblance of order back in my life

Amanda xx


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## dhikki

Hi Amanda,

Thank you for your kind message. It gets like that sometimes feeling overwhelmed by it all. I always find a good chat and cry together helps. I have to admitt i feel a little better than i have done for the past few weeks. To be honest i think i am numb by it all at the moment. When i hear my family talking about Sara and her pregnancy and when i think about my blood results i just feel nothing. Don't even cry....   which feels really strange, not tha i want to be crying all the time and maybe i have cried so much the past few weeks i have nothing left!  

I'm trying to do my normal things without thinking too much about all my troubles. I feel well enough now to start riding Wilson again but the weather hasn't been good enough   yesterday and this morning to foggy here in Norfolk just not safe, i still don't think Wilson minds being retired though!!  

I'm trying to look forward to the spring when i can spend hours in the saddle to make up for a quiet winter! I keep looking around my garden and cannot believe how much work there is out there, so that will keep me off the street corners!  

We have had a family of moles in our garden all winter and my goodness have they made a mess, little buggars   but they have to live somewhere i guess.

How is everyone ? Seems quiet on here just now......  

Love to everyone


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## dhikki

P.s my cousin in law has sent me a message on ********, she is 9 weeks pregnant, I am happy for them i really am, but i so wish it was me and all of you......


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## Bambam

dhikki said:


> I keep looking around my garden and cannot believe how much work there is out there, so that will keep me off the street corners!


   

Fingers crossed the fog lifts over the next few days and you can get out for a good ride hon 

Amanda xx


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## Kazzz

Big   all round.

Sorry not posted, back to work after 4 snow days, and being an accountant January is our hellish time. Been working twelve hour days since Sunday, promise be back on full mode in Feb. 

Dhikki - if you need another garden , then look no further, dh and i haven't a clue   Roll on the sunny evenings when you can get back in the saddle. I must book some local lessons.

Libran - How are you and Howard  

Espoir09 - Are you busy planning? We have booked to go to Cardiff in Feb to see the rugby and a spa day with my mum and sis in March. A friend is going to Lisbon on her hen party in July,  and i'm the first to say YES, you only live once after all. 

Love and   to all.

Kazzz


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## dhikki

Just a flying post as got loads to do, i thought i would report that wilson and i Went out for a brilliant ride this morning. there was no snow no ice and no fog in Norfolk not even any rain!!  

It was fab really blew the cobwebs away for him and me......... He doesn't mind how much i cry he is just there for me!  

Love to all will catch up later Donna x


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## dhikki

I am just wondering how can one day hold so many different emotions. I have just been told that a dear close family friend has lung cancer, which has spread to the brain   What do good people do to deserve so much pain and suffering. Life is so cruel


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## Kazzz

Dhikki - what truly awful news about your friend  , life can be a


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## Libran

Donna, I am so sorry to hear the sad news about your friend.  You raise an interesting question "why do innocent people suffer?".  I really don't know the answer to that (look at Haiti at the moment).  Life is indeed very cruel.  Your friend has done nothing to deserve such illness, and no-body here on FF has done anything to deserve the huge pain and suffering of IF.  They say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.  Personally, I would rather have no IF issues and be a weak person !  I am just so tired of it all and having to be strong and having a fixed smile plastered permanently on my face.  On the bright side, I am glad you had such a fab ride with Wilson.
Kazz - sorry work is tough for you at the moment.  Hopefully once you get in to February, things will slow down.  Howard is fine   but we are both seriously stressed with our moving house (120 miles) next weekend.  There is so much to organise, I'm just overwhelmed with it all.
Amanda, getting it off your chest with dh really helps, doesn't it.  Sorry you've been going through a tough time, but hope you are back on track now.
Espoir, you seem to have gone silent a bit.  I hope that means you are busy planning (and actually doing) loads of great diversionary things.  
Right, going to walk the dog and then organise bb in the new house, or else I won't be able to chat to you lovely ladies when I get there X


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## espoir09

Hellooooooo i'm baaaaack!

Sorry for the radio silence ladies but DH and I were having our few days in Prague which were wonderful.

Unfortunately I've come back to a shedload of work and am rushed off my feet at the mo' so will do proper posts over the weekend.  Just didn't want you to think I don't love you all anymore.

Dhikki   I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. I hope you're doing ok.

Love
E


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## dhikki

Hi everyone just a quick post before i go to bed.

Espoir- welcome back hun, glad you had a wonderful time hun be good to have you back keeping us all on the straight and narrow!!  

Libran- Stressed about your move sorry to hear that hun, i'll swap places with you, sad i know but i adore moving!! I hope it goes well, and i hope it doesn't mean you will be away from us for too long!  

Kazzz-   Thank you, the awful thing is i feel like i do about the IF, totally helpless i do not know what to say or do! I have given my love and said i'm here always but what else can you do? How are you sweetheart?  


If i might be so bold a little update on me, well doctors called this morning and asked me to make an appoinment for this afternoon   I couldn't attend because of work and i was already short staffed. So asked him to tell me over the phone, all he would say is my blood results are very abnormal and they wish to re run them. He suggested making an appoinment early next week. I have done this for monday at 10.30.   Not sure what to think but trying to be positive i know if they had found cancer cells they wouldn't have to re run them would they?   I can't see it it would show up right?
I'm hoping he means my hormone levels are all to cock, like they often are. Feel a bit strange about it though not had to have re runs on bloods before! But hey ho guess time will tell.  

Trying to be as upbeat as poss despite my awful few weeks, what with one thing and another. Feeling a little strange towards DH though, which i hate. He still hasn't spoken to me about any of it. He hasn't even asked me if i have heard about my bloods! I wonder if he is angry with me about all my health problems and the pain we go through  

Hope everyone is doing ok Love to you all x


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## Libran

Donna, just wanted to send you a massive    Will be thinking of you on Monday.  Please keep us up to date on your bloods.  Re your dh, reading between the lines of your posts, my general impression is that he loves you very much.  My guess is that his silence is NOT lack of concern, far from it.  I think he is just doing the typical, male "acting like an ostrich" thing and burying his head in the sand precisely BECAUSE he loves you so much.  What you don't know can't hurt you (ignorance is bliss etc) and I guess he is just too scared to ask.  Having said all that, of course you deserve and need his support right now.  Communication is key.  I think you have to be open with him and explain that, although you understand he may want to bury his head in the sand, you need some love and support from him right now, through this difficult time, and you need him to be strong for you.  Once this has been made clear to him (why is it that men always need thing spelling out to them in words of one syllable, eh ?!) I am sure he will snap out of it and rise to the occassion.  
Espoir, good to have you back - looking forward to hearing all about Prague.
Kazzz - are you still buried under a mountain of tax returns ?!  One week to go !!!


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## Kazzz

Hello you lovely ladies.  

Just in from my tax returns, and settling down with a bottle of wine   .

Dhikki -   for tommorrow. My DH is also quiet, i agree with Libran it's a male thing, that's how they are, women talk, talk, talk- men don't. I get really cross and think DH doesn't care about the IVF, i push him so far he admits he can see how stressed i am and doesn't want to burden me with his pain. This hurts because i offload constantly and want him to share. Your DH silence is NOT lack of concern hun.

Libran - Where are you moving from and to. I can't imagine ever moving, so far i have moved one mile  . We built on my parents land. Must be both exciting and scary. 

Espoir - Can't wait to hear about prague. 

  .
Kazzz


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## espoir09

Evening ladies

Apologies for my absence over the weekend.  I had reflexology on Saturday and it totally wiped me out for the weekend, I haven't slept so well or felt so well in myself for, probably the 3 years we've been trying.  I feel like my old self again (well not 100% but you know what I mean!)

Dhikki, I hope your blood tests went well.  I'm sure it was just a blip on the test and everything's ok.  At least they're doing them again quickly so you won't have to wait a long time.

I know you're having a really tough time at the moment, but hang on in there.  Your DH adores you and as everyone else has said, his not talking is almost certainly a combo of (a) his typical male reaction and (b) not wanting to put any more pressure on you by telling you how he's feeling.  I know my DH is the same.

I don't know if you've already tried it but if you haven't, as soon as you feel well enough, get some reflexology or other pamper treatments booked in.  You have to remember to look after yourself.  If you're the same as me, you will have spent most of your TTC time punishing yourself for being a failure.  

Espoir says enough.  Dhikki is a lovely person who deserves to be loved and looked after with or without LO's.  If you won't, then I will for you.  So there.  

Bet you wish I'd stayed in Prague now don't you!!!

Prague was lovely,  we landed in really heavy snow so all the gothic architecture looked simply gorgeous covered in glistening white snow as we wandered through the narrow cobbled streets on Sunday evening.  And with beer at £1.20 for 0.5 litres (more than a pint), well it would have been rude not to enjoy the Czech hospitality!!

It was really good for us (well me at least) I relaxed for the first time in a long time - it was nice to be having an adventure again.  

I realised just how much I have let my life slide as the IF journey has taken over.  After less than 2 days we had run out of things to talk about, mainly because my life consists of our furbaby, work and IF.  So I have resolved no more.  I'm trying to accept that a BFP is probably never ever going to happen for me and to make as much of my life as I can without LO's. (We both agree that surrogacy and adoption are not the right routes for us).

As I said earlier I feel more positive and like the old me than I have done since we got back from our honeymoon when I was convinced we were BFP.

I know already that this month's Clomid won't have worked as our BMS hit all the wrong days, so I'm prepared although I'm sure I'll still be devastated when AF arrives.  

Oh yes, that's the other thing I learnt, Clomid and alcohol definitely do not mix.  I tried on the Sunday night and after 3 lagers ended up asleep on the table in the little restaurant we went to.  Monday afternoon after 3 hot wines, I ended up on the floor of a supermarket as my Clomid headache was back with the beer monkeys and their hammers.

Anyway, enough about me.

I'm aware that I have a role to fill and I have been thinking about how best to come up with things for everyone to do.

I can list some general ideas, but if people want more specific suggestions, then please let me know roughly where you live, what type of things you're into and a budget.  Then I can do some more in depth research.

Libran good luck with the move - no panicking, it will all come together, these things always do - failing that the removal van will just have to blooming well wait until you're ready!

Kazzz - enjoy your wine, hope you've kicked those tax returns into touch.

Right, one more piece of work to do and then I think I can go home for the evening, yippeee!


----------



## espoir09

Blimey, I do go on don't I


----------



## debblaze

Hi Ladies

I wonder if i can join you, you sound fab and i could do with some cheering up..


Debsx


----------



## Libran

Hi Everyone !
Espoir - I can tell from your post that the trip to Prague has done you the world of good.  You make the combination of snow and cheep beer sound so enticing !  I think you should concentrate on planning your next adventure ASAP.  You make an important point - sometimes, in the midst of the constant pressure of IF and ttc, we lose sight of the one thing that is surely most important to all of us i.e. our marriages / partnership with our dh's.  Relationships require constant nurturing, and if you neglect them (i.e because you are too focused and absorbed in IF) then they can and do go stale.  I feel it is important that we don't let IF rob us of the one good and constant thing in our lives.  Remember, if the chlomid does fail this month and AF arrives, we are all here for you.
Donna - worried about your silence, hun.  Really hope that you are OK.  Thinking of you today and your blood tests.  As E said, I'm sure it is just a blip.  Have you had a heart to heart with dh yet ?
Debs - welcome - great to have you join us.  We'll do our level best to cheer you up.
Kazz - we are moving to a small village in Cambridgeshire called Duxford.  DH is already there, and I'll be joining him on Saturday.  I'm worried cos I know that the whole moving thing is going to entail meeting lots of new people, and I'm going to have to respond millions of times to  dreaded questions from complete strangers like "So, do you have children ?  How many ?".  I still haven't worked out the correct response.  "Mind your own [email protected]!$&y business" is not really appropriate, is it ?!


----------



## espoir09

Hi Debs, welcome to the thread.  I'm Espoir and I'm the gobby one!  The girls on this thread are great and really supportive.

Dhikki - thinking of you and sending you lots of love and  .  We're here for you when you're ready to come back.

Libran - is Duxford the place where they have the airshow?  I lived in Cambridge for 4 years, so have a vague recollection of the name?  

My stock response to the children question has become "no we don't have children" and when they ask don't you want them etc, I reply "oh maybe one day when the time is right".  So far this seems to be working!

I'm sure you'll make loads of new friends soon and it won't be a problem.

Thank you for being there.  I'm almost certain that it will be a BFN this month, but for once I'm relatively calm about it.  I've even lost track of what cd it is - normally I could tell you to the minute!

The next adventure is already in the calendar and has been for 12 months.  We're going to Cuba in 7 weeks with my MIL and FIL.  The only slight fly in the ointment is when we get back I will no longer be a 20-something!!!

I'm convinced this is going to be a more positive year (even whilst there won't be a BFP) as last night an old uni friend who I'd fallen out of touch with, rang me out of the blue to announce he's finally popped the question and to ask if they could come and spend this weekend with us.  I'm really looking forward to seeing him.

Hope everyone has a good Tuesday

E
x


----------



## debblaze

Hi all you lovely ladies, i hope to get to know you all soon.  Sound like your a great bunch....

Im in Peterborough Cambridgeshire, does anyone live near... Duxfords not that far from me about 30 mins.

Do any of you ever meet up.. Im on the more to life forum and its really hard to get to meet up with people from there in the same situation (childlessness)....

Im off to cuba in Sept, are you going to Havanna aswell espoir09

Hope Donna is ok, ive been trying to read all the posts but it may take a while.

Take care


----------



## espoir09

Hi Deb

We are going to Havana.  Our first week is a tour of the island, and Havana is our base for 3 days I think.  Our second week is then in all inclusive hotel in Varadero.

We've been looking forward to this for over 12 months now and I just can't wait.

Unfortunately I'm a northern lass, so not that close to Peterborough, although I lived in Cambridge for 4 years.


----------



## Kazzz

Hi Debblaze - welcome to the thread looking forward to getting to know you.

Espoir09 - Prague sounds fab and it sounds like it did you the world of good.



> Espoir says enough. Dhikki is a lovely person who deserves to be loved and looked after with or without LO's. If you won't, then I will for you. So there.


 I AGREE
I've had a few sessions of reflexology and found it very realxing. Beer monkeys with their hammers  

Dhikki - Sending you lots of hugs, we're hear for you anytime.

Libran - Goodluck with the move, if your anything like me you will get DH to move the furniture at least 3 or 4 times and then out it back where you started. 

Bambam - hope your ok.

I'm no good at geography, but i think us girls span the country.  .

 
Kazzz


----------



## dhikki

Hi everyone, my goodness i turn my back for a few days and everyone posts!! So much to catch up on!!  

Ladies new and old thank you for your posts, and thank you for all your kind thoughts it means SO much to me  

I am not doing too bad, my hubby and i had a few days where we were totally selfish. We started talking on the weekend, and we both totally broke down. I told him everything and he spoke to me so in depth, more heartfelt than it has ever been before. Sounds so awful but it was so lovely to see him break down. It is good to know he feels the same as i do, he just does the man thing and stays quiet keeping it all in.   I guess it is just aswell that we are not both emotional crying wrecks all the time!  

I feel sad, but so positive, we have to accept what this life has thrown at us and move on. Now we have talked it is so lovely i no longer feel ALONE  

Since we started talking i have slept well every night so much so that every morning this week i have overslept!! This morning i was an hour late to th stables!! Wilson was not impressed with me   but he forgave me when i gave him extra breakfast!!

I have had my bloods re done and am waiting to hear. Gp said about ten days time! 

I am just gonna spend some time catching up and reading all your posts. 

THANKYOU everyone i love you all Donna x


----------



## dhikki

Espoir- you are the gobby one, but in the very lovely way that we all need and are greatful for! So glad you had a fab time wish i had managed to get in your suit case!  
(but not in a weird pervy way)  

Has anyone got any good ideas for valentines day, i want to really spoil the best hubby in the world and the most preious person in my life!!  

Debblaze-   WELCOME hun, so lovely for you to join us, we are all a little   but we are harmless!!  

Libran- How are you sweetheart? And how is the move going?  

Bambam- How r u babe?  

Kazzz- How are you doing sweetheart? Hope you have finnished all those tax returns!  



So Valentines ideas, please posts some good ideas!!   Romance i just love it!!!!


----------



## Bambam

Hi Donna

Am so pleased you are ok hon, was going to pm you today to see how you were as you haven't been around. I'm so pleased you and DH had such a great talk at the weekend, sorry you both broke down but it was obviously so good for both of you, and the best thing to come out of it is you not feeling alone any more  

Hmmm will give the valentines some thought   I'm not very good at romance   My birthday is a few days before valentines day so we tend to have a quiet one when I usually just cook dp's favourite dinner and we watch a dvd snuggling on the sofa - how boring am i  

Hi debblaze and welcome   I live in the South West and as Kazzz said i think we're scattered all over the UK. I somtimes think that a good old girlie meet up would be good for us all so it's a shame we're all over the place.

Kazzz i'm good thanks, we've just had a good weekend in London. How are you doing chick?  

Libran I hope the move is going well  

espoir - sounds like you've got a good couple of weeks planned in Havana 

I started my wii active 30 day challenge on Monday as i'm determined to get fit. I'm sooooooo glad today is a rest day as my legs are soooooooooo sore today, walking downstairs is pure agony 

Amanda xx


----------



## espoir09

dhikki said:


> Has anyone got any good ideas for valentines day, i want to really spoil the best hubby in the world and the most preious person in my life!!


Oooh lovely. Well you could whisk him away for a romantic weekend getaway (UK or abroad) as the 14th is a Sunday.

You could go for a couples massage at a SPA and spend the day pampering yourselves - I think places like Boots etc do those experience vouchers and I'm sure there's a couple's SPA day (although they are not the cheapest) or take him up in a hotair balloon.

Otherwise if he has a hobby / passion, you could indulge him in that e.g. tickets to see his football (or other sporting) team, or arrange for him to drive a super car.

If you want some help looking into any of these let me know.


----------



## espoir09

PS soooooo glad to have you back and that you're feeling more positive


----------



## debblaze

AFternoon everyone.

Espoir- were going to stay in Havana for four nights then move onto Varadero so maybe you can give me heads up as your going soon.  Let me know what its like when you get back.

Hi to everyone, hope your all well and looking forward to the weekend.??  My other half and I will be going out for a valentines meal, lovely but nothing really exciting... It would be lovely if he used his imagination but most of the times needs a push.

Im busy organising my parents SURPRISE 50th wedding anniversary..  So my time is taken thinking about things i need to organise for the party...  I kept wondering whether to do another cycle but OCD raises its head and panic sets in...  Im alot happier when im not even thinking about it but then it always comes back to bite me on my bum..

I have attend a childlessness workshop with Meredith Wheeler which id recommend to everyone who is struggling with childlessness...

Take care all

Debsx


----------



## Libran

Hi Everyone  
Donna - so good to have you back, and even better to hear that you managed to clear the air with DH.  Not sure about valentines.  Will give it some thought.  The bottom line is I am SURE that he knows that you love him and it won't take a huge gift or massive romantic gesture to prove that point.
Good luck with the Wii fit challenge, Amanda.  I feel like I need it too.  As DH has been away for nearly a month now, I've been existing on choccie biscuits and other terribly unhealthy unmentionable stuff  
Debs - would love to hear more about the Meredith W workshop.  Did you really feel that you got a lot out of it ?  Are you receiving any treatment for OCD / panic attacks ?
Espoir - Can we ALL come to Havana please ?!  Personally, I would love to go to Norway to see the Northern Lights.  But Havana sounds great too.  
Kazzz - when you surface from under your tax returns, hope you are OK.
I'm totally stressed   Never moving again.  Yes, we'll be in Duxford nr Cambridge which is where the airshow / airmuseum is.  Nearly there now.  As we are all so geographically spread out, would it be possible to "meet" in chat room on FF site one night to have a live chat ?  Next best thing to meeting in person.  Having said that, don't think we are having internet in our new house until Feb 17th so I may be silent for a wee while - but you won't get rid of me permanently that easily!
Did anyone see that programme last night on women having IVF in their 60's ?!!


----------



## Kazzz

Hi everyone.

Big    all round.

Dhikki - Great to hear from you - your post had me in  , but i think it's good to cry and i'm so glad you and your dh had a heart to heart.  . I'm a real romantic so will have a think about valentines day. Dh and i are going to the rugby in Cardiff - how romantic is that  . Poor Wilson - you bad bad girl   .

Bambam - nothing wrong with snuggling.  . How far apart are we all? I can't possibly admit where i thought Cuba was after discussing with DH   . I told you my geography was BAD. I can't even drive DH for a surprise because i have to ask right or left at the end of the drive  . Did you see any musicals whilst in Lodon?

Espoir - what are you u to for valentines day?

Debblaze - Put dh on here - we will give him some valentines day ideas.   ohh aren't surprise parties hard to keep - we had my dads 60th last Dec - it was hard.

Two days left until our tax returns over -     

Has anyone been to Vegas - Dh is 40 - OMG yes 40 next year and i'm planning on a big surprise, but i'm rubbish at keeping secrets i get too excited    and confess. 

Love Kazzz
xx


----------



## dhikki

Hi everyone, 

Kazzz- I am sorry i made you cry sweetie accept this hug from me  . So your a real romantic, why rugby and cardiff then?    So glad to hear your tax returns are nearly finnished!  

Bambam - I do love a good snuggle, enjoy hun  

Libran- Don't get stressed about your move sweetie, it will all work out well i'm sure   Fab idea about the chat night, i'd come! I am in norfolk which is about an hour from cambridge! We could meet for coffee and cake    We will all miss you loads while your not online, please make sure you come back to us!   Didn't see the programme but not sure i could have watched it to be honest! What happened?  

Espoir- I love your idea about whisking him away, my idea was to book the honeymoon suite for the weekend where we were married 3 years ago in March, but we now live very near there 3 miles to be precise! Would it feel like we were away!!   

If i have missed anyone i'm really sorry, i am not so good about personal posts!! Please forgive me  

Well ladies i have had a good day all things considered. Was at the stables at 7 am, Wilson was still sleeping!   Went for a brilliant ride was out for two hours and went a distance of 9 miles! A bit cold but you can't have everything. Haven't done any house work today just been dong horsey jobs and trying to do nice things. I did jump on the scales and i am delighted to have lost my christmas weight, and the weight i had put on with the cysts, Infact i am 3 pounds lighter than i was before xmas eating!! Can i have a WHOOP WHOOP, only three more stones to go!!!!  


I love you all Donna x


----------



## espoir09

WHOOP WHOOP, you go girl!

And well done you for doing nice things today.  Glad you seem to be feeling a bit better.

If you will both relax at the hotel (and not be tempted to nip home and do chores etc) and out of your normal routine and just in "couples land" then it is the perfect place, I think.

   for you Dhikki.

We don't celebrate Valentines Day.  We never have done really (I got a cute teddy bear for the very 1st one we were together!) we used to send cards when I was away at uni but we don't even do that now.

We are going out in York for a meal on the Saturday night though with some friends who we haven't seen since their wedding last August so that will be lovely.

Sorry short post (well for me) but I'm stuck in the office marking up a stinky contract and I want to go home soon.  We've got friends coming to stay for the weekend on Saturday and you can't actually get into the spare room as its full of junk!!!!!


----------



## Libran

Hi Ladies
Just wanted to say I will be offline during the move (prob til about 17/2) but will be thinking of you all.
Things are just crazy here - the van is all ordered and we're ready to pick up keys, but nothing is packed and I have masses of work to finish off.  A couple came round to look at our current house (we're trying to rent it out - not selling yet, just in case the move doesn't work out).  They had a 3 month old baby, and I can't tell you how strange it felt to think of a young family in MY HOUSE.  Had a wobble and a few tears, but was OK in end.
Donna - glad you're back on form and lucky Wilson having such a long run out.  Re valentines, I'm with Espoir, really.  I don't think the big gestures matter so much, it is the every day things (like offering to do the washing up or make a cup of tea when you know your other half is tired) that matters.  I do think a hot air balloon ride would be perfect for a little romance, though.  We'll def have to try and meet up when I'm settled 
Espoir - hope you enjoy your visit with friends this weekend.  You've only got one spare room to clean out - I've got a whole house !  SWAP YOU !!!  Enjoy your meal in York.  If you can give me some tips on good places you remember from your Cambridge days, that would be fab.
Kazzz  - miss your posts, but guess you will surface again next week once the deadline is done.  Thinking of you and hope you're OK.
Love to everyone else.  Let's get that chat night sorted soon XX


----------



## dhikki

LIBRAN - we will miss you so much x


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## dhikki

Hello everyone,

Had an ok day today. Not felt that strong but not cried yet so that must be a good thing. Glad it is the weekend, feels like it has been a long week. Not happy with all this snow though took me an hour to get home and it is only 5 miles!!

Hope everyone has a nice weekend love to you all Donna x


----------



## Kazzz

Hi everyone

Just a quickie to see how everyone is, my connection is not fab so will keep it short. Went to a ball last night, got in about 4 so have only been awake for about two hours today!! and not even out of pj's  
Dhikki - Hope you have lovely, relaxing weekend. If you need to vent we are hear for you.  
Libran - How's the packing going?
Espoir09 - How was you meal in York
Debblaze - how are you?
Love to all and anyone i've missed
Kazzz


----------



## Kazzz

Ok - poor connection turned into a dead computer - so will only be able to post while at work until the problem is fixed. 

How is everyone?
Kazzz


----------



## espoir09

Feeling sorry for myself as I'm in lots of pain.

Some of my uni friends who we hadn't seen for 2.5 years came to stay on Saturday.  It was nice to see them, but I've thrown my back out cleaning the house before they arrived and so am now sulking!!

Hope everyone had a lovely weekend.  Now need to run (Hmm with bad back?!) to get some passport photos done and then to get my passport application sorted as fly in 5 and 1/2 weeks! 

Yes I AM that organised when it comes to my own life!!!


----------



## dhikki

Hi everyone, i am gonna give you a break from me for a while, i have lost it big time and would be no good for you all....

I love you all Donnnax


----------



## espoir09

Oh Donna honey, sorry to hear you're having a tough day.

You don't need to give us a break from you.  We are always here for you whenever you need us and are ready for us.

We will miss you if you do take a break.


----------



## Kazzz

Donna

We're all her to support you, please don't feel you are no good for us. I understand if you need a break from FF, but please don't let it be because of our feelings. I echo espoir09.  

Kazzz


----------



## Kazzz

I just want to send lots of cyber hugs to anyone reading who at this time doesn't feel strong enought to post. We are all here to support you.

Kazzz


----------



## espoir09

Ditto

Without Dhikki and Libran its awfully quiet on here.

How are you Kazz, celebrating the end of the tax season?


----------



## dhikki

Hi espoir and kazzz-

I feel strong enough to come on and say hello today, i hope you are both well.  

I have just got back from my gp, who has told me that my bloods are free from anything really bad like cancer, but they have shown that my hormones are all over the place. Her words they are off the scale   she has confirmed that i have 4 fibroids and the scan that i am due will confirm more. 

As for my DH and i are we are struggling about the decision we had to make over the weekend. We both feel like we have lost our family that we never got to meet.  

I love you all and i will try to be more positive on here, Lots of love Donna x


----------



## Kazzz

Hi Dhikki.  

We just want you to be you - sad, happy, angry, we're here for you. Good news about your bloods, have they given you something for the hormones?

It's early days for you both after your tough decision, you are grieving and it will take time. Allow yourselves time.

Kazzz


----------



## dhikki

Kazzz- Thank you. I am not on anything yet, my gp wants to wait until i have had my scan. Which should be anyday now. She said to try and regulate my hormones it would be a form of contraceptive, something else i have to try and get my head around. May sound silly to others but everytime i sleep with my hubby, i have a small glimmer of hope that a miracle might come my way. If of course i am taking a form of contraceptive i won't have that either. 

How are you doing hun?

So sorry it's all about me i don't mean it to be x


----------



## Libran

Hi Everyone !
I'm still without internet access after the move but have popped in to an internet cafe as I can't do without my fix of surfing for too long !
I'm missing you all.  The move has been chaotic and I am feeling a little out of my depth in a strange and new town, but, otherwise OK.
DHIKKI - honey, I have been catching up with all your news and I am so sorry to hear everything.  My thoughts are with you and your DH at this difficult time, and I am just sorry that I've been without internet access and not able to support you properly at the most critical moment.  I really hope that we might be able to meet up in person now that I'm in Cambridgeshire.  Don't ever worry about "me posts" and venting your feelings here.  This is exactly what the forum is for.
Espoir - sorry to hear about the bad back, but hope you had good time with the old uni friends.  How did you get on this month ?  
Kazz - how are you ?  Is your computer truly dead ?!! 
Missing you all and hope I can post again soon XX


----------



## espoir09

Dhikki - glad that you're feeling strong enough to come and see us today  .  I've posted on your other thread. I hope you won't think its too much about me, I just wanted to explain why I think you have every right to grieve.

Libran - hey glad the move is going well.  You'll soon have loads of new friends.  If I come to Cambridge I will let you know.

I'm on CD26 and AF has stated quite clearly that she will be here either tomorrow or Saturday which will be the end of the Clomid road for us.  We have to wait til 4 March for our next consultation so it will probably be much later in the year before we get any further tx given how quickly things have moved so far!

Fighting hard to stay positive.  The reflxology was marvellous and I bounced through the week after that.  Acupuncture I'm not so sure about. My mood has been a lot lower since (although they do say it may initially aggravate symptoms before making them better) but we'll give it a few more sessions!

Back still bad - not made any better by falling in the snow last night when DH refused to come and save me from the city centre cos there was no public transport  

Friday tomorrow - yippeee!

Big warm hugs to everyone.

E
x


----------



## Kazzz

Espoir09 - i've had reflexology and thought about acupuncture but the needles, i'm not sure. I would love to hear about your experience. I hope you've got DH in the naughty corner for not coming to get you.

Libran - hiya, computer is back but sooooooo slllooowwwww. How's the unpacking.

Me - i'm full of cold now, typical. Night by the fire with the tv i think.

Donna -   .

Dinner waiting, be back in a while.

Kazzz


----------



## Kazzz




----------



## nickinoodle

hi Kazz

Just popped on here not been on for years, i also ad ivf May 08 sure i remember you hope you are well x


----------



## Kazzz

Hope everyone is ok and had a nice weekend. 

K


----------



## Kazzz

Hello. 

Hope you all had a nice weekend.   
Kazzz


----------



## Kazzz

Hello

Just a short one, been off work for two days, feeling awful , not sure why, just totally drained. 

Donna - How are you and dh. Have you been out on Wilson?

Espoir09 - Are you busy planning your next adventure? We're hopefully off to Cardiff at the w/end for the rugby.

Nickinnoodle - how are you?

Libran - Have you finished unpacking, hope you settling in and enjoying your new home

Amanda - How are you?

Love and hugs to anyone reading, we're all here to support you.

Kazzz


----------



## dhikki

Hello everyone,

I am just trying to take things a day at a time. It is so hard...... 

Kazzz - I hope you had a nice weekend sweetheart how are you?

My love to all Donna x


----------



## Kazzz

Hi Donna

I agree every day is so hard. I'm ok, feeling quite low as i've been ill, seems to bring everything down. My oldest friend has had her breast removed and reconstructed from belly fat as she had a non agressive cancerous lump removed and wanted to remove all chances or it returning, so feeling quite sad today.

How are you hunny?   

Kazzz


----------



## Bambam

Kazzz sorry you've been ill and to hear about your friend     Hope you've got some nice things planned for the weekend hon   I'm doing really well at the moment, it was my birthday on Monday and it's our anniversary tomorrow so we've been doing lots of nice things. We went to see my nephews yesterday, one was 2 on Tuesday and the other is 5 weeks and they are both absolutely adorable. I am so happy that, after all the heartache, i have come out the other end and am able to love playing with children and cuddling newborns again. We went to Avatar in 3D in the afternoon and i got us the comfy leather reclining seats - well worth the money, i was asleep after about half an hour     I slept for about an hour and it would have been longer only dp woke me up as i was snoring   

Amanda xx


----------



## Kazzz

> I am so happy that, after all the heartache, i have come out the other end and am able to love playing with children and cuddling newborns again


Amanda - That made me smile and you so deserve to be happy.

Snoring in the cinema    , think i would have been watching that film, i'm more of a rom com chick.

Bring on more nice thiings i say, we spent the weekend in Cardiff at the rugby, had a lovely weekend, too much food and alcohol , diet stars AGAIN today.

  to anyone reading, we're hear for you.

Kazzz


----------



## dhikki

Hello all, can't offer anything upbeat ladies, but just wanted to say hi, how r u all? I miss you x


----------



## brightspirit

Hi girls  

 Just wanted to say have had a lovely w/e in Wales doing Yoga and had gorgeous head massage if anyone fancies a
lovely retreat full of Yoga and lovely food try Druworldwide.com some good offers there now really recommend it 
Go treat yourself -there were also quite a few couples as was valentines day !!!
Hope you are all ok and hugs to anyone not  
  



/links


----------



## lornam41

Hi,
Not been on this thread for a while but just thought I'd pop in and say hello.  Hope youare all doing well
Not had time to read through all the posts.
Anyway hope your all good and look forward to getting to know you all better soon.

xxx


----------



## espoir09

Hi guys

Sorry I've not been on for a while, I needed a bit of space, because as expected AF arrived last month and that's the end of the Clomid (not that I will miss that horror drug but it does mean our miracle cure didn't work).

Anyway, to make up for it, I thought that I would post this joke which made me giggle.  I hold my hands up now and admit it I've copied from another thread, but I thought it might help cheer us all up

E
x

The Baby Photographer 
The Smiths were unable to conceive children and decided to use a surrogate father to start their family. On the day the proxy father was to arrive, Mr. Smith kissed his wife goodbye and said, "Well, I'm off now. The man should be here soon." 

Half an hour later, just by chance, a door-to-door baby photographer happened to ring the doorbell, hoping to make a sale. 

"Good morning, Ma'am", he said, "I've come to..." 

"Oh, no need to explain," Mrs. Smith cut in, embarrassed, "I've been expecting you."

"Have you really?" said the photographer. "Well, that's good. Did you know babies are my specialty?"

"Well that's what my husband and I had hoped. Please come in and have a seat "

After a moment she asked, blushing, "Well, where do we start?"

"Leave everything to me. I usually try two in the bathtub, one on the couch, and perhaps a couple on the bed. And sometimes the living room floor is fun. You can really spread out there."

"Bathtub, living room floor? No wonder it didn't work out for Harry and me!"

"Well, Ma'am, none of us can guarantee a good one every time. But if we try several different positions and I shoot from six or seven angles, I'm sure you'll be pleased with the results."

"My, that's a lot!" gasped Mrs. Smith.

"Ma'am, in my line of work a man has to take his time. I'd love to be in and out in five minutes, but I'm sure you'd be disappointed with that."

"Don't I know it," said Mrs. Smith quietly.

The photographer opened his briefcase and pulled out a portfolio of his baby pictures. "This was done on the top of a bus," he said.

"Oh my God!" Mrs. Smith exclaimed, grasping at her throat.

"And these twins turned out exceptionally well - when you consider her mother was so difficult to work with."

"She was difficult?" asked Mrs. Smith.

"Yes, I'm afraid so. I finally had to take her to the park to get the job done right. People were crowding around four and five deep to get a good look."

"Four and five deep?" said Mrs. Smith, her eyes wide with amazement.

"Yes", the photographer replied. "And for more than three hours, too. The mother was constantly squealing and yelling - I could hardly concentrate, and when darkness approached I had to rush my shots. Finally, when the squirrels began nibbling on my equipment, I just had to pack it all in."

Mrs. Smith leaned forward. "Do you mean they actually chewed on your, um... equipment?"

"It's true, Ma'am, yes. Well, if you're ready, I'll set-up my tripod and we can get to work right away."

"Tripod?"

"Oh yes, Ma'am. I need to use a tripod to rest my Canon on. It's much too heavy to be held in the hand very long."

With that, Mrs. Smith fainted.


----------



## Georgey

Good Morning Everyone, 

Hope you dont mind me joining you, just had our final IVF and didnt even get to test date , so everything a bit raw at the moment and not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel yet 

Espoir09, just read ur joke it did make me giggle !!!

Hi to everyone else x x x


----------



## espoir09

Hi Georgey

Welcome to the thread, sorry to hear about your BFN  . 

Glad you liked the joke, you gotta take the giggles where you can find them!


----------



## Georgey

Yeah I know,
they are very few and far between at the moment. Just dont know what to focus on at the moment to try an dpick myself up !!!!

x x x x


----------



## Kazzz

Hi Georgey
Welcome to the thread, sorry to read your news. You should concentrate on you and book something nice.

Espoir09 - good giggle  

Sorry been missing for a bit, had DH family over for a few days and I tidied the house so much - couldn't find the laptop!! Everyone has gone very quiet, i hope your all ok and if not we're here for you.  

Must dash - quick dash around during lunch.

Kazzz


----------



## H&amp;P

Hi just stumbled on this thread as we are having one last TX in April and then it will be time for us to "move on", but felt I had to post when I saw the Baby Photographer joke and say to espoir.....oy you stole my joke


----------



## espoir09

Hi Driver225, I've seen you on the Yorkshire Girls Thread,  for you tx in April



espoir09 said:


> I thought that I would post this joke which made me giggle. I hold my hands up now and admit it I've copied from another thread


I held my hands up I swear and admitted before I posted the joke that I had "borrowed" it. I just thought it was too funny not to share.


----------



## H&amp;P

Hey there espoir - I saw that you held your hands uo just thought it was funny when i saw it posted on this thread. Thnx for the good luck vibe for April.


----------



## Kazzz

Hello

Hope everyone is ok - its gone very quiet.


----------



## Libran

Hi Everyone
I haven't posted for a while, due to our stressful house move, so just wanted to see how everyone is doing.
Donna - haven't heard from you in ages.  If you read this, please let us know you are OK.
To everyone else, hope you are all doing well.
If anyone is interested in trying to sort out a chat session, please post back and lets see what we can organise X


----------



## Kazzz

- how is everyone?

K


----------



## espoir09

Not very well at all today.  My horrid body has totally killed all the excitement I had for Cuba tomorrow.  Just want to crawl into a hole and never come out.

Sorry


----------



## Libran

Espoir, so sorry to hear that you are having a bad day  
I'm sure Cuba will be great once you get there XX


----------



## Kazzz

Oh hunny.   . Pack the bags, have a long, hot bath and an early night, tommorrow is a new day.

K


----------



## craftynix

Hi, I am new to this and we were planning to go to spain for ED, mothers day came and no one has any idea how it cuts like a knife through your soul. I have never felt much support from my partner as he already has a daughter and i am sure he was only doing it for me. We have now had a big row and he has left me. He his own problems keeping a failing business a float. We rent our house, I have no friends, my mom lives an hours drive away and doesnt understand how IF feels, plus I dont want her to worry about me and my sister lives in OZ. I am so alone and I cant carry on my life like this.


----------



## Coco Ruby

Hi Craftynix

I just read your post and didn't want to 'read and run'.  Sending you a huge   for the terribly difficult time that you are going through right now. IF can make everything else in life that much more complicated and it is hard to see past it sometimes.  I hope that you and your partner can talk and try to work things out (if that's actually what you want). Although I understand that you don't want to worry your mum, I'm sure she would want be there to support you through this if you feel you can talk to her  

Lots of hugs


----------



## Libran

Craftynix, I'm so sorry to hear about the row with your husband and how low you are feeling.  How long have you been married?  Sending you  .  If ever I feel that I can't cope / carry on, I try and remind myself that NOTHING in life is forever, and I know that I will not feel the same way in 24hrs or 1 week or 1 month's time.  You are in a bad place, but you won't stay there.  Things will change and improve, that is for sure, simply due to the nature of the rollercoaster of life that we live on.  Good times never last, but neither do bad ones either.  However, I agree with Coco Ruby that you need to get a support system in place from somewhere - please try and talk to someone.
Rowan, I'm so sorry to hear about your husbands illness.  You must be feeling totally overwhelmed with it all at the moment.  They say in life that everyone faces problems / challenges / difficulties and it is not WHAT we are faced with that is relevant but HOW we deal with it.  Happy people don't necessarily have fewer problems - they just deal with them better.  Personally, I am always accused of being negative about my life and not looking at the good things, but when life throws such a lot of %2£&* at you, it is incredibly hard to focus on the good things.  However, underneath it all (buried deep) they must be there somewhere.  What are the good things in your life?
Nbr - hope you are OK X


----------



## craftynix

Thanks everyone for your replies, it helps me feel a little less alone.
We are not married and we have only been together for about 5 years. He cant cope with my problems as well as his own, so I now need to deal with the IF on my own whether we stay together or not. I really want to make it work and to do this I need to be a support to him as he has said he cant cope with it all. He says he doesn't know what he wants. 
No one can understand the feelings you have trying to come to terms with never being able to have children, unless you have been there. Everywhere I turn there are babies, children and happy families. This is all I have ever wanted. I just don't know how I am going to get out of this dark place. I have become a very negative person and I hate myself for it.
I turned 40 last year and since then everything has rapidly spiralled downwards. I don't know whether to contact a counsellor, can they really help? should I speak to my GP I was on anti depressants a few years ago but came off them when I was trying to conceive.
Life without children.... how do you do it?

xxx


----------



## nbr1968

Craftynix   you are not alone here - speaking for myself, I know exactly that deep dark place you are in - and you are right, no one can really understand unless they have been there and worn the t-shirt. You sound overwhelmed - Libran is right - nothing is forever - and things will get better - but when you are where you are now, it is hard to see that. What helps me is to deal with the sometimes overwhelming thoughts I have, in small increments, otherwise you feel like your head will explode.

I have chosen to deal with my health problems for now - and specifically to try to take daily exercise. Just a small thing, that i do everyday, that makes me feel that i have achieved something outside of work. I go out cycling because I enjoy it and if I come across babies/prams/happy families, i can cycle past really quickly!! 

I know the feeling of being on that post-40 rollercoaster that seems to be plunging downwards with no light in site! I have been told to seek counselling, perhaps try anti depressants etc.....right now I am still considering those options, but as i said, I have decided to try one small thing/change at a time so as not to get overwhelmed or overloaded. 

Libran, I am ok, thanks for asking!  BTW, you are not negative - just look at the support you have just offered Craftynix! It is so empathetic and warm - maybe you are just a realist! I also am accused of being "glass half empty" - usually I find by people whose lives are ticking along nicely-thank-you-very-much!!!  But what you say is so right - I have found that my mood has changed in only a few weeks - not sure if it is the weather changing, seeing those hopeful heads on daffodils, hearing the birds, feeling the warmth of the sun, but for the moment atleast, I am choosing to take baby steps and turn my face upwards. Not getting ahead of myself and aware that dark days will be there, but knowing that I am not alone helps so much!


I think that because infertility pervades every area of your life, affects friendships, relationships with family and partners, affects your physical and mental health, sometimes, we lack the emotional resources to deal with it, and that's when we feel a loss of control and a deep sadness for what could have been. We are always reminded, that's the problem. That's why i come on FF throughout the day - to get some semblance that i am not alone.

Rowan, sorry the docs app was not more positive - I am so lucky my doc is fab - what about changing docs? Sorry to hear that your hubby is ill too - it never rains but it pours! I really wish you could get a break from it all. please don't feel like the second half of your life is not worth having - as Libran said, what are the good things in your life, no matter how small? For me, as I said, I cannot see any big good things right now, so i am just focussing on the little things! The day i spent in my garden at the weekend is an example - the sun on my face made me feel glad to be alive - even if for that fleeting moment. I know you are physically hurting right now, so probably cannot even think of exercise (who would blame you!), but do you like to cook, paint, etc? 

Finally, as you said donor treatment in the UK is horrendously expensive - what about going overseas (as craftynix was thinking?) - they are supposed to be as good if not better, and much cheaper. Just a thought - not trying to teach you how to suck eggs  but just thinking that even if you just did the research, that would give you that little something to focus on to help you through this hardest of time.

The support I get from FF is priceless - I hope that I give back something to others in return.

Warm sunny hugs to you all 

Nbr68xx


----------



## Rowan22

Hi all,

Nbr, as Ive said before, you must be a very kind, caring lady to write the kinds of posts you do! I've been reading some of these threads and you offer so much support to everybody! Thank you. You give an awful lot back to all of us! 
It has been a gorgeous day and it's true that waking up to decent weather and some sunshine can make you feel much better. The problem is the situation never goes away and in my case it's bleeding into other issues, like the whole ageing rubbish. I've never had to deal with ageism before and I'm finding it very hard to accept that just because I'm over 40, I'm useless. Is this the attitude of the NHS? What happens after 50? 60? 70? Do you just become expendable? Post 40 roller coaster, oh yes. But nobody can stop time. 
I spent most of my thirties fighting a dysfunctional thyroid gland. I could never have conceived. Should I have had children in my twenties, was that it? One chance, five years after uni and then, nothing? 
I'm having to deal with a children related issue for work at the moment and this is incredibly hard. It's like having teeth pulled. 
I still don't feel that I have any value. What use is a childless middle aged sick woman? And I refuse to become the universal auntie!
The problem with looking at any form of treatment is we can't afford it. We really can't, even though we both work and my dh is worried it won't succeed and we'll just end up with the bills rolling in every month. I can understand his point of view but I'd just like to give something a try! I'll be 50 before too long. 
Craftynix, I am sorry you're in so dark a place.  I think we all know how that feels! It is amazing how you can't walk down the street without hearing a toddler in a pushchair! I've even seen one out at 10 o clock at night! There's no safety, anywhere.
Libran, you are quite right and it's the attitude suggested in Buddhist practice. Live in the present, etc. Meditation is supposed to help. It does a bit because it shows you just how much you're controlled by your mind, rather than the other way round. On the other hand, IF does hurt, it's a real loss and as Nbr said, it affects every part of your life. One site I was looking at recently described it as a life crisis. 
Also, of course, we're all _supposed_ to have children! I feel I've failed, that I _should_ have had them in my twenties but I didn't have a crystal ball! But it's hard when you're suffering not to feel 'if only I'd done this, if only I'd done that!' because the place you're in hurts so badly. Not very helpful, really!
Exercise is excellent and you seem to be really positive at the moment, Nbr! Changing one thing at a time sounds like a really good idea. Good luck with it all .

Rowanx


----------



## Libran

Hi Rowan - it must be incredibly tough on you having to deal with child related issues at work at the moment !    I totally sympathise, because I have been in that situation myself, having to interview Clients who insisted upon bringing their babies in prams, or toddlers, to my office.  There were times when I found it virtually impossible to remain professional.  The difficulty, of course, is that if you are going to meet a friend who you know intends to bring children along, you can always cancel / avoid it if you're having a low day, but that is obviously not the case with work.  I also, like you, totally refuse to be the "Universal Auntie".  This has always been my mums argument with me, "ok, you don't have children of your own, so why don't you concentrate on being an amazing Auntie to your three nieces and nephews".  No, no, no, no !!!  Why should I accept second best ?  Having said all that, you question what value is there in the life of a sick, middle-aged, childless woman.  Well, the answer to that is PLENTY.  All life has value.  How is your DH ?  Does he have test results back now ?
Nbr - it is fantastic to hear that you have moved to a more positive place.  When I compare your more recent posts to some of the older ones, the contrast is quite marked.  You are totally right that IF affects every aspect of your being - how you perceive yourself, how you interact with others, how you believe that others perceive you, family relationships and work interactions etc etc etc.  The sadness of IF will NEVER, EVER, EVER go away, but we do have a choice - we can let it define us, or we can choose not to be ruled by it.
Craftynix - how are you ?  Hope you are still reading the thread and feeling somewhat better.
Personally, I get such a lot of support from FF, I wonder if anyone would be interested in a "chat night" for , say 1/2 hr one day next week ?  Could we set this up ?


----------



## nbr1968

Hi again



Rowan22 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Nbr, as Ive said before, you must be a very kind, caring lady to write the kinds of posts you do! I've been reading some of these threads and you offer so much support to everybody!
> Thank you. You give an awful lot back to all of us!
> It has been a gorgeous day and it's true that waking up to decent weather and some sunshine can make you feel much better. The problem is the situation never goes away and in my case it's bleeding into other issues, like the whole ageing rubbish. I've never had to deal with ageism before and I'm finding it very hard to accept that just because I'm over 40, I'm useless.
> Should I have had children in my twenties, was that it? ...I still don't feel that I have any value. What use is a childless middle aged sick woman? And I refuse to become the universal auntie!
> 
> Exercise is excellent and you seem to be really positive at the moment, Nbr! Changing one thing at a time sounds like a really good idea. Good luck with it all .
> 
> Rowanx


_Right back atcha!!!!_ 
Rowan.... I know exactly what you mean - life is about finding your "place" and meaning - and unfortunately for those of us who are involuntary childless, it is hard to find that place - i too, do not want to be a perpetual "aunty". It is not the same at all, and it is no good kidding us.

Libran, Rowan you are both right - I do feel "brighter" - the little exercise I do each day seems to have helped because it gets me up and outside - it is such a small thing, but because I have made myself do it everyday, I feel it is an achievement - Rowan, you said you feel a failure - me too - and this silly little step makes me feel less so - don't ask me why?!

You are not useless Rowan - far from it. As Libran said,


Libran said:


> Well, the answer to that is PLENTY. All life has value.


You have been dealt a duff hand with your health and I wish that your DH was on board with your wish to investigate donor tx - is he fully informed about it? or forming his opinions from unreliable sources? How is he and his test results?



Libran said:


> Nbr - it is fantastic to hear that you have moved to a more positive place. When I compare your more recent posts to some of the older ones, the contrast is quite marked. You are totally right that IF affects every aspect of your being - how you perceive yourself, how you interact with others, how you believe that others perceive you, family relationships and work interactions etc etc etc. The sadness of IF will NEVER, EVER, EVER go away, but we do have a choice - we can let it define us, or we can choose not to be ruled by it.
> 
> Personally, I get such a lot of support from FF, I wonder if anyone would be interested in a "chat night" for , say 1/2 hr one day next week ? Could we set this up ?


Libran you write so eloquently - you always have a way of putting things that sums up what i want to say, but soooo much better! You are right that we have to make a choice - and for me I try to make hay while the sun shines as far as my mood goes. Right now (and god knows how long this will last) I am feeling my mood has lifted a little - the clouds have parted and I see ***** a ***** of sunlight - and I am doing what i can while it is lifted. I still have not heard from any friends (not since November last year really!), not been out socially with them, and although that still makes me sad, for the time being I am not going to let that define my mood. Not much has changed in my daily life, other than my perception of it. And I have said to myself i am going to take tiny little steps forward and that's ok - the way I look at it, is then when the clouds come over again (and they will!! )and I take that inevitable step/s back, atleast it wont be "back to square one" because I have inched forward a little now!!!

Libran, what makes you happy? Your work sounds stressful - I think I remember (from another thread) that you are a Will writer (is that right?) - no wonder yuo have all those people in your office with their offspring "in your face"! I really admire you!

Rowan, what makes you happy (even if fleetingly)? I was interested you talked about meditation- and Buddhist teachings, I tried Yoga once, but seem to ahve the sort of brain that won't turn off and did not really enjoy it. I think that i sort of meditate when i garden or cycle - because then I don't really think about ttc!!

Craftynix - you doing ok?

Libran, i too could not imagine what i would do without FF - i would be interested in a "chat night" - but have never done that before so have no idea how to do it?

let's see if we can set it up!

I hope it is sunny where you are right now everyone - let's talk soon!


----------



## Rowan22

Hi all,

Nbr, your mind sounds just like mine! I think that's the point, the mind is just like that! Mine jumps around like a cat in a firework factory! You are supposed to get to a point where you can just watch it and not let it carry you away. This can help with all those thoughts that drive us nuts, you know the ones! You just watch them surface but don't jump on board. They go away, more come up, you do the same with them. This is meditation but you need a focus to help. I usually try to follow my breath or sit in the garden and listen to the birds. I do yoga, too, partly to try and get some of the stiffness out of my knees.
My dh is having more bloods done next week, so we have a little while to wait. It's true that he's been very tired and lethargic for a long while. I just hope they find what's causing it. 
I am sitting here trying to get this work done and it's so difficult! Anything to do with children!
Thank you for your kind words, Libran, too. It's hard to believe. I've not done much but cry and struggle with work since I saw the doctor. I know they can only tell it as it is but I'm still not sure I buy the 'old egg' theory. And doctors are so good at giving you bad news and telling you to go away and adjust to it! This was what happened when the diabetes was diagnosed. No help. As for donor egg tx, all my dh can see is the cost. I sit there trying to tell him my heart is breaking and we must try something but cost is his chief concern. 
It's now clouded over here but it has been very nice - and warm!
Hope you're having a decent day.

Rowanx

I would be up for chat, if I could figure out how to do it!


----------



## Libran

Hi All
Rowan, my DH sounds exactly the same as yours.  We would need DE and his primary concern has always been the money.  I'm well aware that we don't have much money, but, at the moment, I'm living my life full of regret because we "haven't tried".  Why should THE MOST important decision in life boil down to money ?  I don't know if it is the same with your DH, but with mine I suspect that really the lack of money argument is just a front for far deeper issues.  I think he is scared to become a dad because his own father was such a poor role model, having been more or less absent from DH's life since he was a teenager.  If it had happened naturally, I'm sure he would have coped just fine........but when pro-active decisions (tough decisions) about invasive and expensive medical treatment need to be made, well that's a different story.
Nbr - long may the positive attitude continue.  You are right that there will probably be ups and downs and blips in your progress (recovery never happens in a smooth, straight line, there are always peaks and troughs along the way) but you sure are heading in the right direction.  What makes me happy ?  Sorry to sound sad, but my dog and DH are my primary focus.  My great pleasure in life has always been walking my dog for an hour each day - it used to be my "ME" time, my "THINKING" time - but sadly that's no longer possible now dog is ill.  Yes, I write wills.  I've been doing it for ages, but I'm just starting out self-employed, setting up on my own, so it is a scary time.  
Re the chat, I think we just click on the chat button on menu bar at top of the page, and this takes you directly through to a chat room called The Lounge.  I don't think a Moderator needs to be there, but not entirely sure.  Monday or Wed night next week would be good for me.  What about you girls ?


----------



## nbr1968

Hi Rowan, Hi Libran

I am sorry that both your DHs are obstructing the thoughts of going for DE. I have done some reading of th FF donor eggs threads and there seem to be so many successes, but it is so hard to make that leap isn't it? To let go of using your own eggs and kidding yourself each month that maybe, just maybe a miracle will happen!

I think you are right Libran, the husbands may be afraid - crumbs who wouldn't be? I am sure that you and Rowan are as scared of having more tx as I am - i am petrified of the thought and so right now that's enough to stop me, but as Libran said, I too do not want a "life of regret"! I hate the fact that often money plays a very significant factor! I wish it didn't - we have certainly spent so much money TTC that we cannot afford to also have hols (plus the fact that we use up holiday allowance on txs because we have to take time off to got to apps etc!). IF is an illness yet we are not given the support through the NHS because it is considered by many to be a *%?%*£ lifetstyle choice!  If I won the Lottery I would help you both achieve your dreams to have those longed for babies! Better do it then - its been years!

Rowan, I really hope that your husband's results come back with nothing seriously wrong  You have enough to deal with. How are you feeling today? I do not like doctors who say "adjust to it" - shows no empathy or understanding of how devastating such a diagnosis is, and it would cost them nothing to listen and try and show some empathy. "Adjust to it" is so dismissive and offers no hope! Are you up for a chat next week? I really hope so. 

Libran, I often thought about getting a small dog from the Rescue Centre - I am so needy right now and a little companion would be so soothing, so i totally understand when you say s/he is your comfort and joy. I think our need to nurture comes out with pets and at least it gives us an outlet. Also good luck with the business - well done you! When I made my Will back when we got married we have provisions for children and nothing else when we die. Now 15 years later I have started to worry about that exact scenario because i really thought by now we would have atleast one child! We have no child - literally no legacy to leave when we die. It's a sobering thought - better start thinking about some charities I guess! We worked so hard to provide for a family - and fate had the last laugh! If I'd know then what i know now, I would have tried to have children in my 20s and then if it didn't happen I would have travelled the World before saddling myself with a mortgage. I have started to fantasise about travelling - went to the library and got out some great travel books and even started to plan an itinerary of sorts. No idea if it will ever happen, but it doesn't hurt to dream.

Libran, thanks for the info re the chat - let's do that next week then - I can do Monday or Weds - what time were you thinking? I have a visitor staying with us from Sunday, so have to cook etc, but could do Monday night for half an hour! Would love to.

It is horrible and foggy here and damp and drizzly - dampens the mood a little. Have not been able to go cycling this am so will go later when the fog clears (hopefully!) - sorry to ramble on but really look forward to hearing from you each day!

Take care 

Nbr68xx


----------



## Rowan22

Hi Nbr and Libran,

Yes, it's infuriating that the decision to try for donor egg tx has to come down to money! I think my dh has his own fears, as well but I suspect this is normal when you're thinking of becoming a parent. I sometimes think I would make a dreadfully bad mum! The main issue with him does seem to be money and he was looking at loan rates the other day. It is true that if we had to have three attempts, which seems to be the average, we'd have a monthly payment that would be impossible. 
Thank you for your kind offer about the lottery, Nbr, I've a feeling it might come down to that!   We'll have to start doing it again! 
Pets are essential. I know what you mean about wanting another one, Nbr, I would have dozens more cats if we could feed them all! Kittens are gorgeous! 
To be fair, my doctor who broke the news about the diabetes diagnosis did try to be sympathetic, knowing the years of ill health I'd already had. Apparently, it's a little known 'side-effect' of thyroid trouble! Aaaaah! I suppose the problem is that at the end of the day, there's no cure, so you do have to learn to live with it and doctors know that, but adjusting to this reality is hard, especially at special times, like Easter. I don't take any medication for the condition at the moment and if I stuff myself with chocolate eggs, I'll be floating to the ceiling! And it's not nearly as pleasant as it sounds! That is always one way I have to stop all feeling, if I want, engineer a sugar high, like a drug but it's not sensible and I wouldn't recommend it. 
Libran, good luck with the business, sounds really promising! Working from home is great but you do have to have boundaries in place, otherwise you never start or never stop! 
I have to admit the thought of tx terrifies me, it's so invasive and I'm even scared of the smear test but at the end of the day, it might be the only way I can ever have a child. And to have it stopped before it's begun because of money...! 
I could chat Monday next week but not Wednesday because of work. Someone will really have to show me what to do, though! I think the only time I ever tried to get into the chatroom, I couldn't for some reason. Can we speak privately in there, that is, in a way that can't be seen by everybody on the Web? I'm always conscious of the fact that personal details I put on here could be read by anybody in the world!
The weather's been gorgeous this morning but now it's cloudy and grey. Rain's forecast.
Have a good weekend, everybody.  

Rowanx


----------



## brownowl23

HI Ladies

Just came across this thread and saw that you were intrested in having a chat night together. If you want this just let me know and I can either tell you how to do this or if you want a mod in the chat with you I could do that. Ive been through DE treatment so can answer questions if you want me to. 

There is a Donor chat night on a wednesday night at 8.30 if anyone wants to join in. 

Having been through 21 years of childlessness and IF, I know how hard mothers day is for those still trying to acheive their dream and I am so glad this thread has been here to help you all through it a bit. 

Chris


----------



## Libran

Hi Rowan, Hi Nbr
Lets try and do chat on Monday night at about 8.30pm for half an hour ?  Would this be OK ?
Brown Owl - thanks for your offer of help.
Rowan, I will PM you with as much help as I can re logging in to chat.  We can only try - if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
Look forward to it, and, in the meantime, hope that everyone has a good weekend XX


----------



## nbr1968

hey libran can you copy me in on how to Chat too! i am a complete novice - spak to you on Monday at 8:30 then!

Have a good weekend all!

Nbr68xxx


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## Rowan22

Hi Meredith,

Good for your husband! I'm glad he's finding a way to control the condition and has come to terms with it. However, it's easier said than done. 
In my case, the diagnosis followed ten years or so of thyroid trouble and apparently it was started by the thyroid (not by me lying on the sofa scoffing a takeaway and never exercising, as the Government would apparently have us believe!  ) I also have arthritis in both knees and I am not 50 yet. I've lost more than twelve years to ill health, two conditions which cause extreme exhaustion, so that I've often felt I'm struggling through a fog of constant fatique - and there are times when I hate this body. 
And that's before we look at the implications in terms of having or not having a family!
The other problem is that doctors can do nothing, until you need insulin. I have the regular bloods done but I can't really see the point. There's no cure. 
Your husband is quite right about diet and exercise and it's how I manage my condition but it's not easy. You don't get a holiday from diabetes; every day, it's there and every day you have to try to control it. The foods you think would be a problem aren't necessarily, in moderation but you can eat something you think is quite harmless and feel terrible the next day. There's a lot of hidden sugars in savoury ready meals, for example. 
As for adoption, yes, we have considered that route but it's not an easy ride. We did start it but were turned down before we even got to the Home Study, on grounds of my husband's health, oddly enough, not mine. This was another blow which neither of us needed. I don't think either of us could try again at the moment. The Social Worker seemed to be looking for reasons to reject us. 
I haven't given up, much less 'accepted', so probably shouldn't be posting on this board (!) but at the moment I have no idea how we shall ever make our family. 
Good luck to your husband for the book!

Rowan


----------



## Kazzz

K


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## nbr1968

Hi everyone - how are we all doing today?  

Rowan, Libran - you ok? 

Rowan how were your husband's tests - any news yet? How are you feeling today - when I read your post about how you have to manage what you eat so carefully otherwise you can end up feeling terrible, I really think that you deal really well with all that is thrown at you. You are obviously a strong lady - I know you said that you have not given up, and I am so glad of that because neither have I! As for how you were treated regarding the adoption route -   well the less I say about that the better, suffice it to say that I wish the SW would focus their attention on those   who get pg easily but who are c*%p parents! No one quizzes them about that do they?

Libran, how's your lil dog? Hope s/he is doing ok? Are you completely settled in your "new" home?

Me, well still cycling everyday - not a pound lost but atleast getting exercise - has anyone else put on loads of weight with tx? Since 2006, i estimate i have gained about 28 pounds - i don't think i eat any more than i used to, and am very careful about what i eat 85% of the time - so not sure what is going on there?

Libran, following on from our chat, i have been doing research on tx - I am so apprehensive and don't know if it is still too soon but i am 42 in two months and I need to feel that i doing something even if i am not going to follow through. Am irritatingly awaiting AF to come - knowing my luck it will be over the weekend, and my endo flares up and the requisite pain that comes with that. 

Really enjoyed chatting on Monday - what i could not cope with was all the messages that came up while I was typing! I am so new to all that, i almost could not keep up!

Take care
Nbr68xxx


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## Rowan22

Hi Nbr,

I don't often feel very strong, sometimes I feel as weak as water but thank you! I should think you must be pretty strong, too, given all you've had to go through!
Yes, diabetes is a bore. It never goes away and doing things like missing the odd meal, due to work or a night out or whatever, is impossible for me. This means I have to eat whether I want to or not and yes, I want to lose weight, too! I keep thinking if I could only starve myself for a few days but I can't. The body compensates by throwing out too much sugar, which in a normal person is no problem because it immediately self-regulates but in my case, that doesn't happen. Basically, it just doesn't work properly any more! Diabetes is classed as a disability, which I try to ignore but it won't just go away.
I really enjoyed the chat on Monday night and hope we can do it again sometime. I found it quite hard to keep up, too! It was good to 'meet' you and the other people.  
I'm waiting for AF, too. What an incredible bore it is! Why don't the things just stop? I can't understand why, if our eggs are so cr*p, the whole thing doesn't stop. What on earth is the point of continuing to bleed and ache month after month after month? And tho I don't have endo, my periods have always been excruciating. 
It sounds as if the exercise is really being helpful. At the moment I'm buried under piles of work but the weekend isn't far away and I hope to be outside putting potatoes in!
Libran, how are preparations going for working from home? How is your dog? I hope there's been some improvement. 
No results back yet. Hopefully, we'll get them tomorrow. I'll be glad when dh's problem gets sorted out.
If you want more tx, go for it! I'm still pondering the idea of donor eggs but I'm not sure this body will support a pregnancy. You sound really hopeful, though, which is great!

Take care,

Rowanx


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## nbr1968

Hi Rowan

I shall be in the garden too this weekend as long as AF keeps away - do yuo grow veg in your garden/allotment? i used to have an allotment and miss it so much but it was not close to home and was hard work! i have treid growing veg here but either the soil is not good, or whatever, but I have been thoroughly unsuccessful.

Rowan, i know what you mean about wondering if your body will support a pg - I think in your case you would be really worried about the effect such a pg would have on your long term health too. Why is this so hard? Other people sail through life/pg and have no worries and we are scared stiff because we have been "burned" so many times.

I had to go to the Gynae ward of the hospital where my son was born on Tuesday - and at the desk was a girl of no more than 18/19 baby in tow and I felt so jealous - she had what i wanted so much, yet I woild not want to be her because I honestly thought what sort of opportunities/life experience could she offer to her child? The I got angry at the budget yesterday because once again we "child free" people are forgotten/marginalised.

Libran, forgot to ask how the plans for the business are coming along? Good that Rowan remembered.

Take care - yes let's chat again soon

Nbr68xx


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## Rowan22

Hi Nbr,

I had an allotment but lost it when we moved. This will be the first year I've tried growing veg here, so it will be interesting to see how it does! I do quite a lot of the 'Good Life' type things, we keep chickens and I make jams, etc! It's a good way to save a bit of money and it does help us eat reasonably well. Also, by this time of the year I'm fed up with supermarket salads and can't wait till my own come through! 
Don't get me started on teenage pg or I will never stop! At least if she was 18, she's legally an adult. It's those who have them at 14 who horrify me! I'm also horrified by their parents, who obviously weren't too bothered about any sort of moral education or even common sense ('get the pill!') As to how these babies are supported... Have you ever watched Jeremy Kyle?! 
Unfortunately, some girls make no bones about saying it's what they want. They have the babies as a kind of 'career choice' to get away from their own homes and not have to work. That's certainly the case where I used to live, where some of the girls were quite blatant about it and pg at school, etc. Of course, you can't take the kids away from them because that's a 'violation of their human rights'. What about the rights of the baby?! I've seen these girls hit them, shout at them, resent them because they mean they can't go out on a Friday night! No understanding of their needs or developmental stages. 
Grr!
Feel very tired today. This is usually the case when AF is coming but it's worse when the sugar's too low or too high. I am struggling to get this work done. You're right about the budget, all it's done is leave us slightly worse off - fuel duty up again. I'm quite Green but where we live we have to have a car. My dh would never get any work without one. 
I think my anger is cooling into bitterness. That's usually how I feel when I think about teenage pg. I was so _good _as a teenager, damn it! Responsible, committed to my school work, even religious, in those days. What was the point? I should have slept around, enjoyed myself! Nature has had the last laugh, it seems. 
Oh, well! Told you what would happen if I got onto this topic! 

Take care,

Rowanx


----------



## Libran

Hi Rowan, Hi Nbr
Hope you are both well.
Yes, it was great to chat on Monday, wasn’t it.  IF can be such an isolating experience, such a lonely path, and, although friends with children will be sympathetic and offer platitudes, they can never really empathise or truly understand the pain.  This is why the support of FF means so much to me.
I’ve had a busy week with preparation for the business.  I’m now set and ready to go, and have my first two Client appointments booked in for next week.  Wish me luck !!  Gonna need it !  Billy (dog) is doing well.  He still has the plaster cast on his leg, but that is due to come off in two weeks time.  He did, however, have me up at 3.00am this morning wanting to go out in the garden for a wee – grrrr !
Rowan, diabetes is a truly dreadful disease.  My medical problems mean that I am at “higher risk” of developing it in the future, so I certainly take it very seriously.  There is no positive spin to be put on it, so I won’t patronize you by trying.  However, I have every admiration for the courage and strength that you are showing in the face of it.  How did it go with your DH’s tests ?
Nbr, you clearly had the most horrific, shattering year last year.  The fact that you are even beginning to talk about tx again is testament to your courage and strength too.
To both of you, I would say never, ever give up on your dreams because if you don’t chase them, nobody else will do it for you.
Let’s chat again soon XX


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## Rowan22

Hi Libran,

Good luck for the business!!!

I hope everything goes well next week.

I'm glad your dog's getting a bit better. Hopefully, it won't be long before the plaster can come off. 
We're still waiting on the results of those blood tests. I do hope the doctors start to do something soon, as if it is just a deficiency, it's so easy to cure. 
Yes, I've had my share of being patronised. It's incredible how you get all these illnesses and then people try to chastise you for not reacting in the 'right' way! It's like some New Agers who think you only get sick if you're not positive, that you've somehow 'attracted' it!
I don't know how I'm supposed to 'accept' it all. I don't know how you accept the childlessness, either. You're right, FF is a godsend. Nobody else understands. How could they? 
It's quite true, no one else will give us our dreams. Let's not give up. 
Have a great weekend!

Rowanx


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## Libran

Hi Rowan, Hi Nbr
Hope you are both having a good weekend.
I'm pretty bored this weekend.  Wedding anniversary tomorrow, so going out for pub sunday lunch, but, apart from that, things are quiet.
Guess I might have to resort to actually doing my housework........
Shall we organise another chat ?
Rowan - any news on DH's tests yet ?
Nbr - I'm so sorry to hear about your painful experience at the hospital.  I have just finished reading Jeremy Kyles book, and, although there is an awful lot wrong with his show, one of the things he is emphatic about is how our society has been ruined by "children having children".  And then, of course, there has been that awful case in the news about the poor toddler whose mum couldn't cope and handed him over to a "friend" to look after for £40 per week, and the "friend" ended up torturing and killing the child.  The frustration that I feel is beyond words.  To adopt, you have to jump the most riddiculous hurdles, but not so if you have the good fortune to be able to become pg naturally.  It just reinforces the point that children are a gift, not a right.  I just wish that I could make sense of it all.


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## Kazzz

Hi all
This thread has gone very quiet, sending cyber hugs to all.
There seems to be quite a few threads under this board and it's a shame we can't all unite under one to support each other.
K
xxxxx


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## nbr1968

Hi Libran

Sorry for tardy reply - AF showed up and have been pretty miserable - could not cycle for 3 days and feeling the "loss" of yet another chance - though in my heart I never truly believe that by some miracle we will get pg "naturally" - but for that brief moment, I have the delusion!

The weekend was a "bust" therefore - hoping this week will be better - though how horrid is this weather?!

I feel so frustrated that my body just seems to inept - I wonder how it got so damaged - i have always looked after myself, eat well, never taken non prescription drugs, don't drink (other than the odd glas of wine here and there) etc.... hey, where did the PMA go? AF just does this to me - had huge cry on Saturday - was cleaning the bathroom, DH in the next room and had the radio on and they were playing the song we had at my son's funeral - and when I went into the other room DH was in tears too. It just never goes away. It will be with me forever. 

How did your anniversary go Libran? If you are anything like me, these occasions are very muted - it's just not the same anymore - do you find that?

Let's organise another chat - I have still heard from no friends so seriously "billy no mates" here!

Rowan, thinking of you and DH. 

Take care

Nbr68xxx


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## Libran

Hi Nbr - your post had ME in tears !!!  I am so sorry to hear about the weekend.  IF is a constant emotional roller coaster - the psychological pain is always there below the surface............and then to have to cope with the physical reminder / pain of AF........
I think as humans we are programmed to "hope" - hoping in the face of adversity is the only thing that keeps us sane during times of difficulty -so it is completely natural that you feel the loss each month (however much your logical brain tells you you're highly unlikely to be pg).  No words, just hugs  .  Please don't apologise for what you describe as your tardy reply.  I think that it is hugely important to take time out for yourself, away from others, to recognise your grief and process your loss in your own mind / head.
I am so sorry that you had such a bad day on Saturday.  I can only imagne your pain.  However, what struck me was that you and your DH were BOTH crying at the song.  I just hope that it is possible for you to use the most painful experience that life has to offer to pull together and grieve together, rather than to push you apart.
Our anniversary weekend was OK.  However, we went out to pub for sunday lunch, and, as I looked around, I realised that we were the only "table for two" in the entire place.  Everywhere else, there were tables of four, six, eight - families with children.  And, of course, our tiny table for two was pushed right in the darkest corner, behind the front door..  I am a completely different person now to the one I was 12 years ago.  Then, of course, when we got home, I got the old wedding photos out and tortured myself some more by looking at pictures of all the guests (friends) and working out how many children they'd all had in the intervening 12 years. 
Rowan - how are you ?  How is DH ?
Is anyone around to chat over Easter ?  Good Friday or Easter Monday ?


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## nbr1968

Hi Libran

Thanks for the support, but sorry I made you cry!  - still having bad week I am afraid - AF was so light but still painful that I am now worried that maybe I am hitting the start of menopause? Always worrying about something fertility related - so sick and tired of it all.

What you said about going out on your anniversary rang so many bells with me - I am getting teary now thinking of you being so sad that you had to punish yourself more by getting out the old photos  

12 years ago you would have held hands across the table and thought "how lucky are we to have the freedom to eat without having to cut up someone else's food" - now you focus on the "emptiness" of a little table for two pushed into a corner - it's a metaphor for our lives isn't it? Society seems to to marginalise us at every occasion.

Libran, I too am a totally different person to the one who was blissfully unaware that she had any IF problems. The only time recently that i have got out old photos or those of our wedding day, is when my DH and I were looking for a photo to put in the coffin with LO - and I said to DH, the recent ones of us show two "old-life-weary-sad people" - and so instead we put in two photos of us really happy around the time we got married and life was so full of hope/expectation and fun. Isn't that pathetic? Of our wedding photo, of our contemporaries everyone has atleast one child, most two, some three. Nobody had to have any assistance, and most could even time the month of birth - two were teachers and wanted to have their babies in the Summer hols, another wanted her children to be the oldest in their class and so chose to have late Autumn babies (and lo and behold both of them were!)

I look at myself in the mirror now and I see my disappointments manifested in my eyes - I know this is just my hormones talking right now while I have AF, but I do feel bloomin sorry for myself today! DH and I do mourn together - continue to grieve together, but FFS, would it be too much to ask for a living LO to love? How's this for pathetic? I was recycling my egg boxes last week and thought "I wish I was keeping these ready to make Easter boxes for  LO's school project". Talk about wallowing.  

Rowan, you have gone quiet - are you ok? DH ok? We are here for you to support.

Libran, how is Billy's leg doing?

Nbr68xxx


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## Rowan22

Hi Nbr and Libran,

Sorry for disappearing, piles of work and then I got sick yet again!
DH is a teacher and he keeps bringing back Things from school! Yesterday was a write off, I was hardly able to stand up, much less do anything. 
Nbr, I'm sorry about your AF. I've had the damn thing, too and it never gets any easier, does it? Libran, your anniversary dinner almost made me cry! I could see the two of you hunched in your dark corner while all around you children played, shouted and had fun. This is why I don't do that sort of thing anymore, unless I know it's adults only or we pick a very unpopular time. I try to shop in the middle of the school day for the same reason. 
My DH is still waiting. He's had the results of the tests and they seem to contradict the earlier ones, so he's now waiting for a phone call from the doctor to explain what on earth is going on. I had to see the diabetes nurse this morning as my blood tests came back showing the condition's not as controlled as I'd hoped. Grr!   She was kind, though, she saw the discussions I'd had with the doctor about trying to conceive and didn't dismiss it at all, especially when she heard how regular the periods still are and that I have no symptoms of menopause. As I said to her, all I want is one good egg!
She said that if I did get pg, I'd be under the hospital because of the diabetes but I'd guessed that. It would mean endless blood tests to keep the sugar as tightly under control as possible and later on perhaps insulin but it would be worth it. I'd probably get a c section, too, which I have to admit I'd much prefer to the alternative.
I'm dreaming, right? I know, I'm dreaming! But just one good egg doesn't seem too much to ask!
Nbr, I've never abused my health, either. That's what annoys me so much about those govt informationals. You can exercise, eat right, drink in strict moderation, not smoke and still get seriously ill. Trust me, you can!
At times, we feel pretty life weary and sad, as well. 
I can't believe those friends of yours could plan their pregnancies so precisely. They must have willing and able bodies, is all I can say! Mine isn't very co operative at all anymore. I'm just wondering if I dare nibble at any Easter eggs! 

Take care,

Rowanx


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## Libran

Hi Nbr, Hi Rowan
Sorry, not having a very good day today.  Billys not well at all (he's not eating) and the business is getting off to a very slow start.  I know these things take time, but, unfortunately, I still have bills to pay whilst I'm waiting for it all to take off :-( 
And I'm torturing myself post-anniversary with thoughts of "I'm getting OLD", "Where has my life gone", "I'm useless" and "My life has no meaning". 
Life just doesn't make sense.  Why do innocent people suffer?  
Rowan, I really feel for you when you talk about your diabetes, I really do.  I try desperately to control my weight, but I'm pretty sure that I will be in the same position before too long.  And how frustrating for your DH still waiting for the tests to be explained   I'm glad you found a sympathetic ear in the diabetes nurse.
Nbr, hope you are feeling better after AF.  There are so many "little things", everywhere you look, that remind you of your childless state i.e egg boxes.  I've given up with ******** - I'm so fed up with hearing about ******** Groups such as "Yummy Mummys" and all the easter plans people have with their families.  At the moment, I don't think I will venture out at all over Easter - I just want to crawl under the douvet and die !


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## Spirit2

I know exactly how you are feeling. I always go home to be with my family at Easter. I live in the city and they live in Cornall so it is always so relaxing to go home. This year I don't think I will be. Firstly my Dear Dad passed away just recently so it won't be the same. Secondly my sister who has just announced her pregnancy is living there and my Mum and her will be chatting and planning everything. So the one place that I can normally escape to will be a constant reminder. 

On another note, my husband is getting fed up with me crying all the time. He was very understanding at first but is now keeping his distance and going on the computer all the time. We used to be so close and ready to take things on together. Has anyone else gone through this?

I know I am really low as I have just had my 2nd IUI. I am due on next week and already have cramping with no symptoms whatsoever. And I was trying so hard to be positive as well. 

I am still in bed as I have a day off today. I feel like I am just wasting my life away but finding it harder and harder to go out because there is always another reminder out there of a happy family. With losing my Dad and no chance of a little one on the horizon I feel my family dreams have all gone


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## nbr1968

Libran, Rowan big hugs to you both! 

Libran, sorry to hear about Billy - being off their food is always worrying - he needs all the nutrition he can to heal and it makes you feel so helpless - I really hope he perks up and it was just a "blip". Does the vet say anything about it? My friend's cat was off his food and would not eat anything, even the vet could not get him to eat and he ended up in the vets on a drip. She said she got these treats in a packet from Waitrose (they come in a white tube) and that was the only thing her cat would eat for a while. But as Billy has been ill (as you said before) this may not be any help?

Re your business; I too work freelance (I used to work for a newspaper in the Design dept but lost my job) and I know that feeling too - waiting for the phone to ring and work to come in while the bills pile up - this recession hits everyone and the small business/sole trader can least afford to "ride it out". best wishes 

You do sound "down" Libran - anniversaries, birthdays (I have my 42nd coming up in a month! ) - I hate them now - they just remind me of everything I have not done with my life and how everyone else has moved onwards and I am still stuck in this time-warp!

As for ******** - Boastbook more like!!! I refuse to "social network" because to me it is like reunions - no one ever turns up and says "my life is awful, I have made nothing of myself " etc etc do they? they all boast or "embellish" their lives and often the reality is somewhat different. Everyone's child is a genius, top of the class, popular and talented. Yeah right!

Yummy Mummy's - well don't get me started - becoming a mother is not an olympic sport for goodness sake! Women have been and will keep having children through the ages, just accept that you are lucky enough to be part of the "sisterhood" and remember those of us who are still trying to get there. I sometimes feel like substituting the "Y" with a "D", it seems to make more sense for some of the so called YMs! 

As for Easter, well like you Libran I am going to plan what I do to try and avoid feeling like a complete failure - there is currently no Public Holiday where I don't feel like I am excluded from The Club, and the bitterness is becoming an old friend. I admit I am bitter, resentful and somewhat of a "kill joy" but I reckon I have the right to be "in my moment" - I am not hurting anyone and do not have the mental energy to be more positive - that was all used up two IVFs ago!

Rowan, good to hear from you - but sorry to hear you've had a downturn healthwise - I just hope that DHs results come back more definitively soon! Don't you give in to the easter eggs though! You know you'll regret it! Sounds like you and I have synchronised AF cycles! I hope yours was not too painful?

Do you think I should be worried that this AF was so much lighter and shorter than usual? Sign of menopause starting do you think? I have been googling like mad and am now wondering - but for the last two cycles I have been back on the Agnus Castus to help with the endometriosis and fibroids, so I wonder if it could be that?

Anyway, looks like we are heading for another tx - and I am terrified. Will I produce eggs? will my lining be any good, will it all happen again (mc/loss?) - we think maybe the end of May/June as a possibility depending on what the cons says. I just feel that at 42 I cannot afford to delay and like you Rowan, I cannot throw in the towel yet and give up - I just don't know how - and this maybe the last ditch chance (small as it is). I still think we are mad to put ourselves through it - and if DHs sperm was not an issue I would just keep TTC naturally, since the odds they have given us are pretty much the same as TTC naturally, but TBH I just feel like I have to do _something_ because I cannot just keep going like this and at some point i am going to have to find a way to give it up and "accept". I cannot find an answer as to _how _to accept and move on - just got to keep looking for that "silver bullet" I guess.

Take care - btw Libran probably won't be able to talk over Easter - bro still here, and I really have to plan something with him - I have been neglecting him while I try and work and so am feeling guilty! Any other date for chat that suits you both?

Nbr68xx


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## Rowan22

Hi everyone,

Libran, sorry to hear about Billy. I'd go with the suggestion to give him some treats. Is there anything he really, really likes? Something you know he will eat? Don't worry if it's what he 'should' be eating. It is worrying when they won't eat.
I'm sorry the business is a bit slow, as well but I hope it picks up soon. Sometimes it can take a while, unfortunately, which doesn't help when you see the bills coming in. Nothing stops them, does it? This weather doesn't help, we've had to turn the heating up again. Last week, I was even hoping we'd be able to turn it off. Should have known.
Hi Spirit. I am sorry to hear about your Dad.   It must feel very strange to go home at the moment. Hard enough without having your sister pregnant, too. I know what you mean about your DH. I think they just deal with things differently. Mine doesn't always respond when I'm crying or ranting about the IF and when I ask why, he just says he doesn't know what to say. I think they try to fix things and when they can't, they don't know what to do and try to tune out. Mine spends ages on the lap top, too or in front of the box. I hope your IUI worked.  
********, well, it's just not me. To be honest, I think if I had twenty children it wouldn't be me. I sometimes have people from work asking me to join it or one of the equivalents but I don't want half the world to know what I had for dinner Sunday - and it does seem to me it sometimes comes down to that! As for photos, no, definitely not. And I don't understand how women can post their scans on these sites...!  
Nbr, I take agnus castus and it certainly isn't making my periods lighter. I've always had ghastly heavy painful periods and I still do. The sort of periods you have to plan around because it's impossible to do anything or go anywhere for the first three days. Your light AF might just be a blip or it might have something to do with stress (doesn't everything?!) Yes, I noticed that we seem to be synchronising! 
We're still waiting for DH's blood results. It does seem that he may have to have some injections, though. My doctor has agreed to scan my hormones, so we'll see what everything's doing! I am not optimistic but I do want to know. 
As for Easter, well, we were going out but it looks as if the weather will put paid to that! I have loads to do in the garden and I wanted to make a start. But we won't be going to any events and in my case it's for the usual reason. I can cope with teenagers. I can cope with older children who are semi independent and out on their own. But I can't cope with little children with their parents. The emotions just run riot. 
If you want another round of tx, Nbr and you think you can cope emotionally with it all, I'd go for it. I can't as I still haven't worked out the money side of things. 
I hope you enjoy spending time with your brother and it gives you a break from it all. Sometimes I think we really need that!
Take care.  

Rowanx


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## Kazzz

Anyone there


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## Libran

Hi Kazz - always here for you - how are you doing ? - PM me anytime you like - come and join us on the other thread.
I really hope that Espoir and Dhikki are OK.  Haven't heard from them in months ?


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## Debs

It has gone quiet on here Kazz   - hows everyone doing?

Good idea from Libran about getting together in chat - it would just be nice to have a natter all together?

Let me know if you are up for it ........ I have the keys to the chat room after all   

I had a lovely day yesterday looking after my great nephew for the day - he is 2.  The house was full of noise and toys and ............... I just wished it was like that all the time    The house just came to life with him here - and then he went home  

Am off to my sisters for dinner today - hope you are all doing something nice  

Love

Debs xxx


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## michelleD

Hello ladies

May i join you? Feeling pretty low and FF is the only sanctuary i have. Just starting to contemplate the fact that i may never be a mother. Fertility treatment is just too exhausting anymore and don't think we can put ourselves through such heartache again.

Not really sure what the future holds. I know i have a wonderful DH, but the pain of longing for a baby is getting too much to bear.

sending   to you all

xxxx


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## Debs

Hi Michelle,

Course your welcome to join    although im sorry events have led you to this board  

Tx is exhausting both physically and emotionally - however personally the emotional was the worst for me.

Sending you big   and remember theres always someone here to have a rant/moan or giggle with.

Love

Debs xxx


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## nbr1968

Hello ladies

Just wanted to say a quick hello and say I hope you are all doing well? Hope your Easter break is relaxing and happy. 

Spirit2, sorry to hear that you are feeling so down - don't worry about symptom watching - pg symptoms are so like AF symptoms that it drives you mad! As for crying all the time and how that affects your relationship with DH, I have certainly been through that phase when the tears come so easily and even now the emotions are so close to the surface that even the littlest trigger can set me off (an advert, a song etc) - this is just what we all are going through and the toll it takes on our emotional well being - I am sure your DH is not ignoring your pain, but if he is anything like my DH it frustrates him that he cannot take your pain away (and his of course). My DH and I had to really talk about our true feelings and be honest about our feelings of inadequacy and frustration and it is an ongoing process - this is all so hard - most people do not have to go through the invasion into all parts of our lives that IF hoists upon us, and it is bound to take its toll, because we feel so isolated and helpless. If he appears to be taking refuge in the computer then it may just be his way of coping with feelings that are so hard to express because he does not want to upset you further.

When is OTD? Remember its not over until its over and all your feelings of doubt and let's face it, probably fear too, are normal and totally understandable - be kind to yourself and DH - *you are doing really well*, and we are here to support you if you need it.

Rowan, do let us know that your DH is alright - and I hope that your results atleast give you something to ease your mind a little - how is your diabetes doing over this festival of chocolate!! How did your gardening plans go? I was planning to do something in the garden too but it really has not stopped raining and it is so cold too. Thnaks for your support around the tx - I am afraid that my emotions are all over the place about this because I know that we are really taking a shot in the dark - but what else can we do? I just don't know how to just "accept", have no idea how to "move on" and yet rationally really need to find a way to do that. I have enjoyed spending time with my bro - though he too is going through a hard time with his relationship and so i am trying to support him there as much as I can.

Libran, how's Billy doing? I had switched off the bit where I can see people's pics (I find it so hard seeing the lovely pics of smiling babies) but I saw yours with Billy on your computer and he is absolutely gorgeous!! I have been thinking of you and hoping that you feel better right now - we are here for you if you are still under that duvet!!! - I saw you were supporting the ladies on the other thread - that is so great, especially as you are feeling so low - shows you are one special person! I just hope that your Easter was at least relaxing after all the stress of starting the business. Let's set up another chat soon.

AFM, bro and I went out for meal last night - DH is away at the mo - and we were sat there when this pg lady came in looking all radiant etc, and my heart, once again, sank to the floor and I felt so stupid for being so envious of her sitting there rubbing her belly - I kicked myself for being so pathetic, but I just could not help it - all I could think about was that little wonder she was carrying, and how my heart ached to be in her position - the feeling of that sadness just envelops me and I just want it to go away - I want to be able to walk past a pg woman or someone pushing a pram and not feel totally shattered - after all I have no idea of their lives etc, so how can i feel so much about their position - that's their luck and this reality is my lot, and that's it surely - what's the point in feeling so awaful? And yet my emotional brain/hormones/ whatever just will not let go - someone once told me that a way to deal with fear/pain etc was to literally address the feeling and then put it away in a closed box and leave it for a while ("Hello fear, I know you are there but right now I choose to put you in this box and leave you there and move on") Well, I tried it when I was pg, and was fearing that i would not get to 12 weeks and it worked - but then the worst happened and since then all I seem to feel is fear. Sorry I am rambling on. Just wanted to get it out of my head for a bit!!

Take care ladies - let's talk again soon.

Nbr68xx


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## Spirit2

Hi Ladies,

I hope you are enjoying your time off. DH and I haven't really done that much. He has immersed himself into his games and I have been trawling the internet.  I have now got cramps so I am pretty sure that AF is on it's way and have been in tears most of the afternoon. 
I really wanted to go home for Easter due to losing my Dad so recently and needing my mum and also as it is so peaceful out of the city by the coast. My Mum didn't think it would be a good idea as my sister was going to be there and things are very strained between us at the moment. I was really upset by this as I felt she was rejecting me because I was having a bad time of it and only wanted to be around my sister who is obviously in a somewhat more positive place. We are all grieving due to losing my Dad but my sister is looking towards the future whereas I am stuck with nothing to focus on. My sister hasn't been at all supportive towards me despite the fact that I have just had a second early miscarriage and my baby would have been due when hers is. She has simply said there is more to life than kids (easier for her to say!) and why don't we adopt. I am really hurt at her attitude as when she is around my Mum she is all sweetness and light and very supportive towards her. My Mum doesn't realise how horrible she is being towards me and just thinks that it is me in my negative state.
Anyone else encountered family problems like this? I wish my Dad was here as he was always the voice of reason around us crazy girls. 

I am so glad I have found places like this to chat/offload as I really don't have anyone that I can share this with.

Sorry that was a bit long winded but it has been building up for a while


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## Libran

Hi Ladies
Hope you all survived Easter.  
Rowan, I've been thinking of you, in particular.  Easter must be especially hard for you, and I hope that you have managed to stay strong in the face of all the chocolate temptation.
I've had a mixed time, really.  I honestly believed at one point that we would have to have Billy put down.  It felt so, so cruel.  He is THE ONE thing that keeps me going through the nightmare of IF, my one consolation, and it felt so cruel that he would be taken away.  Anyway, he has rallied - he is eating more now, but he is still unable to walk very well.
I also got v depressed on Sat when I received a card from a friend who has been ttc for 10 years.  We were a huge support to each other.  She has recently had her DS (a great surpise after 10 years ttc).  She apologised in the card about not writing to me sooner, but talked about how much her life has now changed beyond all recognition.  I felt completely destroyed and totally worthless (yet again !).  Sorry, Rowan, I don't mean to hurt you, but I just reached for the easter eggs...   Why can't I feel happy for her ?!!  Goodness knows she deserves it !
Spirit - your situation sounds identical to mine.  My older sister has 3 children.  My mother is besotted with her grandchildren, and she is very close to my sister.  I feel isolated, alone and alienated.  My older sister would not agree to act as egg donor for me, and we haven't really spoken for quite some time.  I can not join their "club" and I am totally sidelined when talk of children is mentioned.  Their main argument is "well, there is nothing we can do about the fact that you can't have children, so you just HAVE to accept it".  You are most definitely NOT alone.
Nbr - thanks for YOUR continued support.  I couldn't get through it without you.  I hope that you do decide to go ahead with the next TX.  I think you will regret it if you don't.  It is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  On that basis, it has to be better to have tried TX and failed than never had TX at all.  It takes great courage, but I know that is something that you have by the bucket load.


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## Spirit2

Hello,

Libran - I hope Billy is going to be okay. Is he a jack russell? Just trying to guess from the pic. I would really like a labrador (family have always had them but also had jack russells who generally were in charge of the somewhat bigger labrador!) but we are both out at work at the moment so don't think it it is really fair. What does anyone think? 

My sister is actually younger which makes it even more difficult to come to terms with. I sent an email to them all tonight saying how upset I was about not being able to come home and she has just responded about how I need to support Mum more and not think about myself all the time.

I am yet again in floods of tears. My DH is in all innocence on the computer whilst I am breaking down in the bedroom of the flat.


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## Rowan22

Hi, all!

Spirit, I'm sorry. That's really the last thing you need!  It's a pity your sister can't spare a thought for how you're feeling. Of course you want to support your mum but you're not in a very good place right now. If your dh is anything like mine, he'll give you a hug. Sometimes it's all anyone can do but I find it does help.
Hi, Nbr, I'm glad you're enjoying your brother's visit and sorry he has problems of his own. It is amazing how you can never seem to go anywhere without seeing pregnant women or babies or young families! I suppose it's because we're so sensitised to it but it just hurts! We went to a nursery on Sat to get some plants and there were families there. Well, silly me, what did I expect during the Easter bank holiday? Except that I didn't expect it and I didn't need it, especially as one woman had four boys. (Whatever happened to the idea of only having two children?!) I got upset and took a while to feel better. There's nowhere we can go that's safe. 
Hi Libran. Again, I find it incredible that people can write such things. I suppose it's true that when you have children your life does change but we can work that out for ourselves! To be honest, I prefer not to know. You're right, it's a club and we can't belong. We don't need to have it rubbed in all the time.
Easter, well... No eggs but I did eat a couple of small bits of chocolate cheesecake. I do have an egg but it will be eaten very slowly. I was upset again today, as I'm dealing with other issues as well as the infertility. Sometimes, life seems rather pointless, you struggle with all this stuff, and work and worry and that's about it, really. The weather hasn't helped. It's been grey and cold, so not much gardening. 
I'm glad Billy is a bit better and I hope he's able to take more food soon. It's worrying when they're ill and you can only go by their behaviour, they can't tell you how they feel. 
It is amazing - again! - how everyone's so quick to give you advice! How are you just supposed to 'accept' that you haven't got children?! I had it this weekend from a family member who's suddenly become a world expert in diabetes care. Everyone thinks they know what I can and cannot eat and I get a bit fed up with it. It's always 'she can't eat that, can she?' Next it will be, 'does she take sweeteners?' OK, my body's cr*p but there's nothing wrong with my mind and I can actually think and speak for myself! 
I think people still have some way to go in relating to people with disabilities and it _is _a disability, though I usually refuse to admit it. God alone knows how you get treated if you have to use a wheelchair!
No results for dh yet but hopefully they'll be in this week. 
Nbr, I'd echo Libran's words: go for tx, if that's what you want and I only wish we could do the same. 
Take care.

Rowanx


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## nbr1968

Dear Ladies

For those of you who wonder why Libran, Rowan, Spirit and I have been having a four-way" chat, it's because we were merged from another thread - I've just read the posts back and our "conversations", seem a bit disjointed, but were were moved from the "Mother's day" thread that I started. Hope that makes sense?

Hope you are all well and coping?

Nbr68xx


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