# Moving On v. Moving Forward



## Hippy

Is it just me or does anyone else really shudder at the main title of our thread i.e. the 'Moving On - Deciding and Accepting'? Every single time I log on I think why does it have to be called that, the accepting part in particular, because I am coming to the realisation that I don't think we ever actually move on, rather we move forward.

What I mean by that is we never, ever forget the journeys we walked, they are part of our personal history that can't be re written so to think we can just 'Move On' isn't very realistic BUT moving forward is i.e just getting through each day post tx having ended is progress, each day having not given up on life and crumpled in a heap is moving forward, so does anyone else agree it would be lovely if we could tweak the title of this thread to something like 'Moving forward after tx ends' as that has no expectations of how you should feel attached to it.

The accepting part of the title also grates with me every time I see it, because it makes it sound like it is an expected part of this path and again I feel it isn't necessarily the case we ever come to accept this road, but perhaps more of a case of we learn to live with it. Putting it in this mindset allows us to feel a variety of emotions over the whole thing, to be free to have our very, very bad days along with more positive ones, whereas implying we have to reach some signed and sealed acceptance stage for me feels me with pressure and anger, i.e. why should I ever accept. I am willing and accepting I have to live with it, but never to say I accept that is wasn't deserved for me if that makes any sense!?

It may just be me (mad old Hippy!) that feels so strongly about our thread title and that is absolutely fine, but wonder if anyone else cringes each time they log on?

I have the same difficulty with the 'More to Life' support organisation for childless couples, that name for me is truly awful as it comes across as so flippant and I have refused to join (which is a shame as they do such fab stuff) because I could never ever tell people I belonged to childless support group called with a title called more to life, to me that is so insulting as it can so easy be taken the wrong way i.e as having children is so not important and there are far better things in life. 

Well rant over, interested to hear if anyone else feels similar?

Love
Hippy
xxxxx


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## emcee

Hiya Hippy  

I have read your post with interest, and you know what? I think you are onto something there!

Can there be any way to decide and accept? I don't think I will ever accept that I cannot have my own biological children, no matter what the future may hold in store for me. I know I have come to the end of the line kicking and screaming, not gently!

You've given me much food for thought today!

Big loves from me darling hippy  
Emcee xxx


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## irisheyes

Hi Hippy not sure if you were around when the board had another name- which was Living Child free. It was decided to change it a while ago. Can you think of any other good titles I'm sure Astrid would be willing to ponder them.

I cant really think of any myself. xxx


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## astrid

Dear Hippy and girls
Thanks for bringing this up....i am willing to do anything. I couldn't agree with you more and Flipping Titles really naff me off. We have to feel comfortable about things and I will go back to Tony and admin and suggest we would like to look at maybe changing the threads name...
Please bear with me and i will try and sort out if we can do another vote....as Irisheyes said it was only the last 6months that we changed.
I also wanted to look at your post again and digest what you have said Hippy. Because i know that you have said things from the heart...xxxxx
I like Moving Forward....because there is one thing you did say correctly and Moving On is quite a difficult jump and does it really ever happen? It is about going forward...
Lots of love astridxx


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## astrid

p.s accepting....yep you have apoint there!! Because i haven't really accepted my lot in life and i am sure the others would agree...
astridx


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## astrid

Dear Hippy and girls!!

Good news i have been given the go ahead with changing the name....(thx Tony)
Now the starting to look at new names..any suggestions?
Shall we start with a poll?
We need some suggestions (other names)to start a vote...

Or are we happy with 'Moving Forward'

Please put your veiws forward...

love astridxxx


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## Bangle21

How about ..........


"The best thread on this site!!" 

ie.  Look no further -  The best bunch of girls you could ever meet is here on this thread!!

Love to all,
Gill xo


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## emcee

How about 'moving forward - life after tx'

I like Gills suggestion too  

Love, 
Emcee x


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## pipkin

Know what you mean about the thread name but it is a tricky one isn't it! I can also relate to what you said about the 'more to life' organisation name (horrible!). Here are my ideas which have the words 'moving forward' in. Love Pipkin x

_Moving forward .... together _ 

or

_Moving forward .... with friends_ 

or

_Moving forward, sometimes backwards but always together_


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## Hippy

So pleased this thread has raised some discussion and got some ideas going    Just wanted to say I do so hope I didn't offend anyone re my harsh criticism of the current title as I hadn't realised it might have been chosen by you guys only 6 months ago ooops   ! HUGE HIPPY apologies!!!!

Astrid you are star   thank you for talking with Tony and for the very kind permission to tweak the current title if people agree.

Ideas for new title

1. I love Emcee's title suggestion i.e. 'Moving Forward - Life after tx   Would like to put a vote down for this one   Or we could just have the title  'Life after tx ends' because that has no inference on how that life should be, i.e no suggestion we have to move on, forward, sideways   etc!

or if other ideas needed . . 

2. Coping with life after tx ends

3. Involuntary childlessness support & friendship

4. Deciding and coping with end of tx 

Whatever we go for we need to make sure it is clear what the thread still relates to, just so we don't lose any potential new people struggling to find support for being in this difficult situation.

Pipkin & Gill - fab ideas too  

Huge hugs

Hippy
xxxx


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## cassie33

Hello Ladies

Now as a newbie I have no business suggesting new titles for this board (at the moment I’d call it the ‘it was not supposed to happen to me board!!!), however, I just wanted to stick my neck out and say that I too really like the 'Moving Forward - Life after tx’ suggestion.  I’m striving to move forward and will feel very proud of myself when I finally feel as if I am moving forward.    The 'Life after tx ends' read to me slightly differently............life after tx ends ie; is no more as we’ve all jumped off a bridge’!!   Cheeerful soul aren't I!!!

Sorry for butting in 

Love Claire X


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## Flopsy

Hi there,

We've already been through this once recently so I don't know what to suggest.

When we last had this discussion I was in favour of the new title. Now I know that I was wrong.

Can we ever get this title right for everyone and do we need different titles for different people?

Since the title was changed to the current one (the moving on..) I've learnt that I can't "move on and accept" my childlessness. 

I also do not "move forward". The grief is still with me. I may need to learn to live with it all my life.

If we were really "moving forward" would be even need this thread?

Do we need a title "coping with permanent childlessness, against our will" or "coping with fertility treatment that failed and this is the end of our dreams"?

I think that it is highly significant that so few ladies join this thread. Most IVF cycles fail and most of us cannot afford the keep trying. Why are there so few women here?

Thoughts very welcome.

Kindest regards,


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## Eilidh M

Dear All

This is an interesting one.


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## Eilidh M

Dear All

I was trying to say that I am infrequent poster these days ( and boy does it show     ) , but I often visit and read your messages.      

I don't really have any bright ideas about a new title, but I do agree that I haven't really accepted or moved on from the situation.  Perhaps something which gives an feeling of "Learning to live with infertility after treatment has ended" captures what I'm thinking, but it's not exactly a snappy title  .

Lots of Love to you all,

Eilidh
XX

P.S. Now that I've almost got the hang of posting again, I might do it more often !!!


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## emcee

Hi lovelies
Cassie's thoughts:


> 'Life after tx ends' read to me slightly differently............life after tx ends ie; is no more as we've all jumped off a bridge'!!


 made me smile!  LOL! Not because its funny after tx ends, its just the way it could be read - a classic case of OOPS there and very well spotted!

I'm pretty sure you can't please all of the people all of the time, and that the idea of having a name change wasn't meant to cause offence to anyone who opted for the wording of the forum now. So where do we go from here?

I agree with Flopsy's remarks about not being able to move on or move forward. Great points made there!

How about something a little different along the lines of - 'companionship & support after tx ends'?

Love, 
Emcee x


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## pipkin

Yeh that made me  too !!!

My serious suggestions first, what about 'friendship after treatment ends' or 'support after treatment ends' ........ it is nice if we could 'try to keep it upbeat   

Claire's suggestion of 'it was not supposed to happen to me board' is more honest though and another take on it is the :-

_'This was supposed to happen to X, not me board'_ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Big hugs
Pipkin


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## Hippy

Emcee - Fab suggestion really like your  'Companionship and support after tx ends'   because that soooo encasplutes exactly what amazing help and a listening ear you get on this thread  

Elidhi M - welcome hun, thank for joining the debate  look forward to more of your posts  

Flopsy - I too don't know why there are so few people on the thread, maybe because for some it might just be too painful to post in this section, and there are quite a large number who are sort of in the in between stage and not quite at the end of the family dream i.e. those who have think they have reached the end of tx but then after taking a long break from it may possibly decide to try just once more, and those who end the tx road but then in time pursue adoption etc. As those of us in the total end of the tx journey know it is such a hard place to be and at times to acknowledge. 

Cassie - Hi hun, great to have your contribution  

Huge hugs to everyone, looks like this has stirred up lots of different thoughts and the search for a different title might be set to run and run! What have I started ooops  

Love
Hippy
xxxxx


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## astrid

Dear Girls
Great ideas!!
I just have one thought and i hope that i do not put a spanner in the works..but some people do not even go for treatment, because of certain personal reasons etc..(i am sorry to throw that one).

I am not sure? i do like Cassies idea...'it was not supposed to happen to me board'!! 

So if we do not like maybe moving on/ maybe leave the tx bit out? what do you think?
We do not like accepting and deciding..We quite like forward (but some were questioning that title (which is a valied point?

What about along the lines of companion and support (as Emcee suggested), but i suppose it needs to encapsulate what we want from the title...and i ain't got a clue? i am trying to put two brain cells together now...

Lovely to hear from Flopsy, Elidith and Cassie...

love astridx


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## Twigs

Hello Ladies

Hope u dont mind me butting in, i havent posted much so hope u dont mind me giving my suggestion re the new name for the board, how about something like ......

When the dream ends - help and support when faced with having to live chidfree

Twigs xxx


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## astrid

Dear twigs
Welcome!!

A nice suggestion!!! umm food for thought?

astridx


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## astrid

Hi Girls
I have been thinking about things this afternoon..and i hope this sounds as if i am coming from the right angle.
My feelings about this thread is to support women/men who are genuinely trying to face the realities of life. Whether they go on to try one more tx/deciding not to do any more treatment/egg/sperm donation/adoption/surrogacy etc. Or you may be a bit further down the road and you have found like minded people. A place where it involves the reality of IF and dealing with an uncertain future?
My concerns are that we may end up being the carers and support for short term problems, that may not relate to what we all want from the thread. What i am trying to say is that if its not centered around the issues that we need to deal with, then it could open the door to everything that we all may still find upsetting?
I think we still need to find a name that identifies us, so that we do not have to face upsetting realities. We need a place where we can come and sound off. A place to support each other and for others to come on here and feel where they are not so alone. 
I hope i am not sounding off..in other words i think Hippy is right we need to find a name without a cringe factor...but one where we are not going to feel uncomfortable and vulnerable, but safe..
Basically i think what i a trying to say and i hope this is not going to offend..but i just want to be surrounded by similiar mindsets and i don't want to support areas that i am trying to get a way from? I am completely supportive of anyone who goes on to make further decisions and hope this will bring them happiness they deserve..and i am more than happy to be apart of that changing process, because we have helped and supported that person during their crisis/loss....
But i don't want to come on here feeling reminded everyday of something that i dearly want...i can look at the other threads to make that reality real...and thats why i avoid them..
So where do we go, again with a name.. 
love astridxx


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## Ermey

Astrid you make perfect sense to me.

I think all of the suggestions have their own merits, howvever you are so right that we need to be clear that this is a plcae to come for people who are not having tx. Without wishing to sound too excluding, I do feel that this is not an 'In-between treatments' space - there are other spaces on FF for that. 

I feel this is a place to come for people who are not having tx, whether its because we have made that painful decision to call it a day, or whether we have been told to call it a day, or whether tx was just not right for us. Of course we want all people to feel welcome and at home, and if people who thought they had ended tx change their minds then we will understand and support their decision (people like our lovely Gill,  ). The key thing to my mind, is that we need to feel safe and don;t want to be hearing alll about tx plans, as this is not appropriate for this place.

How about:

Life without treatment - friendship and support for those not undergoing fertility tx

or

Learning to live without the dream - a place for people who are not having tx


I really hope I haven't offended anyone. Everyone on this thread has always been so hugely supportive. I want everyone to be welcome and recognise that people who had given up tx and yet return to tx are still important to us, but I also want to feel safe and not have to hear about tx etc.

Hugs everyone
Ermey
xxx


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## lucysmith

Whatever we call it, it still sucks! Would rather you didn't have the bit about treatment in it, because for some of us, we decided not to go for treatment and move straight on to the trying to come to terms with the whole sad affair. It's a constant battle and I'm not sure anyone will ever truly move on. How about:
'Coping with not being able to have a child'


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## jq

Here I am again! This is very interesting. As quite a new member who who had to "move on" or whatever 10 years ago can I say that even now I sometimes need some support, that is why I came along. But I also hope I can give support too. So I like Pipkin's titles that emphasise our friendship.


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## Ermey

Been thinking about this a bit more, and to throw another spanner in, feel that 'Moving Forward' is what we are all striving to do, even if we don't feel we are achieving it at times! 

How about 'trying to move forward - friendship for people without tx'

I really like Lucy's suggestion though I still feel we need to be clear that this is a special place for people who are not having tx.

Useful to have Jq's thoughts too, as someone who is further down the timescale then us. (meant in the best possible sense Jq!  
Do you feel you moved 'forward' in some sense? 

love to all,


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## Anthony Reid

Just a quick question....

I have asked this before - but just want fresh views........... Do you think having this board on FF makes it harder to join it?


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## Ermey

Hi Tony,

Do you mean because its potentially painful to be surrounded by the other boards all about tx? 

I have mixed views, because I have to admit some days its hard to scroll past all the tx and pg boards to find our little place. 

On the Other hand, I never would have found this lovely group of ladies if it wasn't for FF. It worked ok for me because I used the tx boards for nearly 3 years and so when i finally ended tx, I suddenly felt like I didn't belong in all my usual safe places on FF so it was a massive comfort to know this place was here on the boards. I'm not sure I would have found it otherwise as I was so fragile I wasn't up to trawling through Google search results for somewhere else.

But, there's people out there like Lucy who didn't take the tx route, and so it may be harder for them to find us past all the tx boards, which would be a real shame.....what do you think Lucy?


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## Anthony Reid

To add to that - not having a board on FF doesnt mean we cannot link to another site(created by us).


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## irisheyes

Hi Tony,personally  i still read some of the other boards- such as iui as thats where is started out.Some of my ffs are still going thru iui/ivf and i like to see how they are getting on. I also post on the relationships board or a few others. I wouldnt like it to be separate. I suppose we dont have to look at the other boards if we dont want to. Anyone agree

I like the title " Moving Forward" but Cassie- you are sooo right!! "It bloody should never have happened to us"!!!!


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## Hippy

Wow my original post has really generated some interesting and varied debates and ideas.

Astrid - Totally agree with you and the others who have suggested whatever our title be that perhaps it not include the word tx because I am painfully aware that there are people who are in the childless situ for whom tx wasn't even an option and we want to welcome everyone and anyone for whom simply is trying to live with the conclusion of childlessness, regardless of the path they travelled to be at this difficult place.

Really like peoples ideas re having the word 'Support and friendship' in our title with then just a simple reference to this being for people unable to have a child.

Loved LucySmith's suggestion - 'Coping with not being able to have a child' this encompasses all.

Tony - I would love for our thread to not be on the FF site as I do find it very painful having to go past all the previous tx threads I was on and being around all that stuff. Being separate from the FF site doesn't mean we can't when we want simply log back on there too when we do feel up to catching up with old buddies from the other threads, so we would get the best of both worlds   If the scarily named 'More to Life' support organisation could have a  more neutral name i.e like the ones suggested by the amazing ladies on here, and have its own website that would be fab  . I have a feeling that was or is the long term plan of the 'More to Life' charity?? I am certain they would get a lot more members by doing this, especially if they changed their name to something more welcoming too  

Love
Hippy
xxxx


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## Anthony Reid

Yes more to life *was* to have its own site and I was the one who was going to build it for them - however things got on top of me and coping with both INUK and FF at the same time was too much.

As I understand it - INUK now have an IT consultancy in place to redevelop their site, and they are just looking for funding(about 11k).

FF's team has now got bigger and we are close to being in a strong position to expand areas of FF that need their own sites.

Babydust being one - and potentially life after tx(or whatever its name is to become).

I have also been working on a research site - however that will remain a secret for a while.

Anyhow.... If this board were to have its own site then I would need a team to run it.

I'd also need the majority backing of this boards current members 

Tony
x


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## lucysmith

I think if More to Life and this message board were to collaborate to put one site together like the Americans have childlessnotbychoice.com then it would be brilliant. I joined More to Life but wasn't keen on meeting people face to face and their message board was underused so then I found this one by searching on google. I think it is pretty easy to find this board on the site even if you haven't undergone treatment, cos to reach that decision I used the boards to find out info. I used to be active on the ICSI board before I came the conclusion I wasn't going to pursue treatment. 

I decided to not to renew with More to Life as their newsletter wasn't as great as this board and this board is free and much better support.


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## jq

Hello all you hard thinkers!

I don't have any easy answer, but as Ermey asked, I might have a perspective from my great age! (I understand Ermey!) 

I certianly don't go with the word "deciding" as I don't feel we have decided to give up 
thropugh choice. We had to give up. I know we have reached that point at different stages in thetreatment/diagnostic cyle - but nonetheless we just realised we could go on no longer. No choice.

"Accepting" is also a difficult word. For so long we did not want to accept. In fact we resisted! And what are we to accept when we are forced to give up our dream? We fear we may have to accept a second best. I think the acptence word is drawn from aspiritual idea (Buddist?) that we may not all believe.

I am not so concerned about the words "Moving on/Forward" as we do need to move out of the dream into something new if we are not to get stuck in a limited barren space.

It feels to me that there may be a need for people who have very recently given up ttc following a diagnosis or failed treatment and who are in the immediate grieving for the dream and perhaps beginning to explore their way ahead, and a need for those who have been through the stage of having to let go but need some support with the ongoing issues of being without a child. 

For me the ongoing issues are that, while I am (I think) well adjusted, I still have a sense of loss.  Age has caught up with me and I am no longer fettered by the hope of a miracle. But...I miss the older children my babies would have been. I would like to be a grandmother. The possibility of being an auntie to my brothers' unborn babies is no substitute evn though my family seem to think this will see me sorted!

I can cope with all this alone, but I so much appreciate the support of others in a similar situation. 

I also feel that having navigated the immediate issues of giving up, I might be able gto support those juzst tarting the struggle.

I wonder if a title can encapsulate all of this? I think we are all learning. The strongst feling \i ghet from this board is one of friendship, whichg is why I liked Pipkin's titles.

Do we need a definative word about moving on/forward? Can 
we recognise that we have to face a diffrent future than the one we dreamt of?  Can we leave spaces through .....s?

I do not have a new title, but maybe some words to go in it?

Learning
adjusting
Changing
Togethr

The best thing about this board is the friendship, so love to you all

Jq


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## emcee

Everyone has made some brilliant points here - but I was struck particuarly about what jq has said.

I have known about my IF for 11 years now, so have had some years to get my head around not being able to have children naturally, but like jq there are times when I need a little bit of companionship with like minded people. That and the fact that you gals are the best and great company  

So I reckon from what everyone has written we need to provide support for...
People who have decided not to take the treatment route
People who have just finished treatment
People who are a few more years down the line who occassionally want a bit of support

Would we be able to accomodate all of this (and anything else anyone can think of) on one board? Do you gals think we manage to do this pretty successfully now? I think we do - but I admit I do worry about causing upset to those who are new in their grief with some of my posts sometimes.

What does everyone else think?

Love to all
Emcee x


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## Ermey

Jq - I certianly don't consider you a great age! But definately wise!   
What you said made sooooooooooooo much sense. Especially about 'deciding' (i felt like life made the decision for me) and accepting (I suspect there will always be a part of me that is baffled by what has happened.

I think you and Emcee are exactly right and part of the reason we can't find a suitable title easily is because we are all at different stages, as so clearly expressed by Emcee. However, although we are at different stages, we have some very big things in common...... best summed up in the words you put forward: we are all learning, we are all adjusting, and everyone here is such a very strong and caring support group that 'together' is a lovely idea.

Emcee - in answer to your question, I personally feel that this board manages very well to encompass everyone, whatever stage they're at. As someone still relatively new to grieving for the end of the line, I don't recall ever feeling offended by the things said by people further down the line from me. in fact it has been enormously helpful to have the benefit of other peoples experience, and see the progress people have made, and understand that the journey remains a constant presence in our lives. I would be bereft if I had to go to a seperate board!

More thoughts.....I think 'Moving forward' is fine, cos as our lovely Hippy says even if we don't move on we are travelling this road as best we can.... how about 'moving forward together' (i think someone already suggested this).

Sorry for wittering. Hope am not being too bossy!!


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## astrid

Dear Girls
JQ - You hit the nail on the head with your post. You encapsulised everything about this board and the different stages that each of us are at. I wish i had the same flair of putting words down in the same way as you. X
Thanks also for everyones input..
I have just completed a night last night and during my sleep to day i ususally dream about the evening at works events. This could include dreams of bedpans, sadness and maybe troubled thoughts. Well today i couldn't stop thinking of new names for the board...nearly drove me mad!! 

I have been looking at everyones post...THese are the ideas/names  that most of us are drawn to..

I thought of the Main Title as 'Changing Directions'  or Moving Forward then adding another part of the title....so it would read as follows..

Changing Directions or Moving Forward - Learning to Live without the Dream !
Changing Dircections or Moving forward -Coping with not being able to have a child!
Changing Directions or Moving Forward - Support Given With Friends!
Changing Directions or Moving Forward - Involuntary Childless Support and Friendship Group!
Changing Directionss or Moving Forward - Facing The Future Support Group!
Changing Directions or Moving Forward - It shouldn't Have Happened to us!
Changing Directions/Moving Forward - Adjusting to Involuntary Childlessness!

Please feel free to look at this again from all different angles...because i am still not sure..? Any other ideas?

love astridxx

p.s My personal Thoughts about this Whole Crappy Thing of IF . My titles...
Changing Directions/Moving Forward - Why did we have to go through it? Thanks Not!
I am skint/ I have lost lots of Friends/ It was an Undignified Journey/ I Lost a big Part of Me/ Boy it Hurts/ I feel a Great Loss/ Thanks for the lack of Support/ Being part of a Minority Group/ Feeling Left Out/Christmases can be S**t/ Forever getting everyones elses good news.. (sorry my bit of anger coming out and i feel better, now i have got it off my chest).     pss (sorry if i sound Selfish!).


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## Purdycat

Hi 

Good God, this is a hard one! What about Childless - not by choice, does that encompass all eventualities,with some kind of realisation/acceptance implied?  (Or am I still at the bitter stage!!  he he!)  With some strapline empasising the support and friendship we can give each other?  
Ellie xx


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## astrid

Ummm thats A good One Ellie!!!


Childless not by Choice Support Group! Or just Childless by Choice !!  What do the others think?

What about the Main Title....Do you like Moving Forward/ Changing Directions!

What about Ellie's suggestion and lets narrow the others down to about 4/5, so we can start a poll!!

Does everyone think we are getting there, capturing the title better?

Love Astridxxxx

P.s Thanks Hippy with bringing this up, you really have given everyone Food for Thought!!xxxxx


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## emcee

Splutter.... sorry ladies.... am peeing myself with LOL reading the rant bit at the end of Astrid's post!   If only there were a clapping hands icon.... oh Astrid, you kill me! 

Emcee xxx


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## astrid

Hello Emcee  
Thanks its made me feel better and i am so glad that the funny side can be seen.  Thanks Emcee, i don't feel so guilty for ranting on anymore.!! LOL!!

love astridx


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## emcee

I'm going to copy and paste them and have them as my mantra!  

Thanks honey  

Love,
Emcee (hopelessly giggling wreck here, tears and everything) LOL!


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## astrid

Emcee...i was going to say alot more, but i don't think it would be accepted !!!!


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## jomac

hello dearest ladies
I've been away for a week and I've read these posts with interest.
Just an observation that the debate about what to call this board just reflects the incredibly complex decisions that we've all faced in getting this far.
I don't think that moving on is something that happens at a time. rather it's a process and that the decision to stop treatment is  a process that for some will be short and for others will take many years.
The grieving also will last a lifetime although it will hopefully became less painful.
I think that also continuing to try to conceive either naturally or my having more treatment is actually part of the process of giving up for some people. I think that if we make the criteria narrow it will exclude people who have genuine need.
The thing about IF is that everyone has their story. The great thing about this board is it allows us to tell our story which is very healing and helps us to move on.
I hope this doesn't sound too "preachy"  
Lots hugs Joanne/Emma


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## Purdycat

Hi Astrid

All your personal thoughts would suit just fine    , including the ones you didn't think would be accepted!! (I can just imagine what they are)!  I was  serious about my suggestion until I looked back at it and saw the funny side, it may be blunt, bit it's true!!!  PS, If it changed to 'childless by choice' I'd run a mile, I'm not childless by choice by a long chalk.

I also liked Lucysmiths's idea 'coping with not being able to have a child', i know it's being nickery pickerty, but I am here dealing with the grief of not having my own child, adoption is not on my radar, 'able to have a child' doesn't acknowledge that i can't have my own child. Perhaps we need a title that reads more life an essay!

Love Ellie

Love Ellie xx


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## Anthony Reid

Just wondering - Why have a title that mentions childlessness or indeed moving forward/on?


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## Purdycat

I agree with maybe not moving forward/on but surely childlessness needs to be there somewhere? Whatever the circumstances leading there may be?  

Ellie x


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## jq

Hello Girls and Tony!

Astrid - you are so clever! (And very funny too!) V. embarrassed re your comments about my writing especially as there were so many typos (it was v.late and I forgot the spellcheck!) I liked several of your suggestions, the best for me is 

"Changing Directions or Moving Forward - Involuntary Childless Support and Friendship Group"

The involuntary explains it, the support and friendship is so important, and as I said, the forward bit is fine with me, but if some people don't like it, why not just the second part?

It does feel to me that this board covers all the phases in the journey, just so long as those who are in the rawest stages don't feel hurt when people like me are more light-hearted. (That's why I started one of my posts saying "Don't read on if.....") I'm not sure separate boards would be well enough subscribed as we do seem to be the smallest already.

In support and friendship!

Jq


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## s.a.f.

Hi, 

how about this:

"Coping with a childless future - by sharing, caring and supporting"  

S.A.F.


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## Ermey

Hello, its thorny one this one isn't it. Its so difficult, because  we are here for by so many different paths, and we may not all see the future the same. For example, I know myself and at least one other person hope to consider adoption in the future, (for this reason I'm not sure about the term 'a childless future') but just aren't ready for it yet and are grieving for the loss of a 'biological' child and adjusting to all that has happened to us. I know we are not all in the same boat in this respect but I feel like this is the only place I belong on FF. 


Here are my votes/faves:

Changing Dircections or Moving forward -Coping with not being able to have a child

Changing Directions or Moving Forward - Involuntary Childless Support and Friendship Group

Childless not by Choice Support Group

Or a combo, like....

Childless not by choice....facing the future together


Perhaps to help us decide we need to establish the reasons why we are here in this board and not elsewhere on FF? Think Astrid or emcee summed this up:

People who have decided not to take the treatment route
People who never had the option of tx
People who have finished having treatment 
People who are a few more years down the line who still need a bit of support


I'm getting sooooooo confused!!!

P.s  Astrid,  you took the words out of my mouth, and said it sooooo much better!


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## astrid

Thankyou for all the input...i think this is still an ongoing topic and quite interesting. I think we will get there with the name of the thread maybe some time soon? who cares as long as we get it right.. 

Hey my old friend S.A.F, how are you?

Does anyone like S.A.F suggestion...'Coping with a Childless Future' - sharing, caring and supporting...
S.A.F Have you thought about doing a few cornflake, car comptetions? and passing the car onto us if you win? ha ha...

love astridxx


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## astrid

Tony said:


> Just wondering - Why have a title that mentions childlessness or indeed moving forward/on?
> 
> This was point raised by Tony...what do you think? Are we raising a title that will bother us in 6months time, if we include Childlessness/Moving Forard/on?
> 
> Astridx


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## Hippy

Oh my goodness   there are now soooo many fantastic title suggestions on here! I didn't realise what my little old original post would result in   and thank  you to everyone for getting a really constructive and interesting debate going.

It has been so helpful to see how many different places and stages will all come from, and despite all our different stories and journeys how this wonderful thread is such an amazing life line to us all  

In answer to Tony's query raised by Astrid   I do feel the word childless is needed in the title just so that we capture as many people who are in this difficult place as poss, it has to be clear and factual as to what this thread is all about so people find our wonderful place of support. 

Ermey   summarised beautifully the groups of people who this thread can be relevant for. As Ermey mentioned they are a couple of us who through the possibility considering adoption later down the line, may not remain officially in this category but until such a time for taking up a different path, we are are presently childless not through choice, and grieving the loss of our own as failed and ended tx, and this thread has provided wonderful sanctuary and invaluable support in coping with this horrible position. 

I do love Ermey's last title suggestions which amalgamates the ethos of lots of other peoples ones too  

- Childless not by choice, friendship and support 

This is short and simple and covers the basic fact that we wanted children but it didn't happen for whatever reasons i.e. failed tx, no tx or one of many other of life's broad and complex array of situations, and it is simply a place where we will find friendship and support by the bucket load   and if some people later down the line  find themselves unexpectedly pursuing other options  i.e. the adoption road, returning to tx or a complete miracle happens  , I feel people on here are so sensitive that those suddenly moving to being back in that world would naturally and probably then migrate to the most appropriate relevant thread (exception of our lovely Gill who very sensitively asked if she could remain on here and we value her friendship greatly  )

Just thought - Childless not by Choice could be a great alternative name for the 'More to Life' group? It could be written as the acronym CNBC with the full title written below it, it would then be a lot clearer as to what the group is all about and who it is for, without having any misconstrued connotations to it i.e. the more to life part can be mis read and come across as hey we don't care there is far more to life than kids which for so many is so not how it actually feels, so this chance of name might help in its marketing and gaining  a lot more new members? I for one would consider joining and telling people I was part of a group called childless not by choice, because it tells it exactly as it is and sums up our position so clearly, any thoughts?

Well I must go before adding any more things to mull over, enjoying the debate though  

Huge hugs

Love
Hippy
xxxxxx


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## Hippy

Oh Moomins   as soon as I wrote the above I remembered one of you had already mentioned that there was a USA group called something similar so had a quick look and yep there is already a group/website with the title CNBC i.e. Childless Not By Choice so we have been beaten to it!! So no good as an idea/alternative title for our Uk group More to Life, but perhaps we can still use it for our thread if people think it sums our situ up well? Had a look at this other website very, very quickly and was most impressed, it has load of different sub headings/categories within this whole area so it covers everyones needs and stages so well  

Right, really must get a life and get off this computer now, half of Sunday has already gone   arrgh!

Love

Hippy
xxxx


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## astrid

Dear Hippy And Girls


I just read your post and i found it very interesting.....and like you i am so glad that your post has caused alot of interest...This new name has been bugging me since you posted. Trying to capture what would be appropriate for the board, has been a real food for thought.... 

Well I thought of Something, but again please pull apart if this is not appropriate. Or maybe add or minus abit of it. My new suggestion, here goes...

   'Not Alone' Support Group (Dealing with Childlessness)

   'Not Alone' Friendship and Support Group (NAF'S')   because we all feel naffed off about the whole thingSorry if that sounds abit off.... 

What do you think? could i be on the wrong or right track? 

love astridx


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## Hippy

Hi Astrid  genius idea! LOVE the 'Not Alone' Friendship & Support Group (NAF's) would be proud to be a NAF with you guys  would need to put Dealing with Childlessness below just so people know who it so for 

Maybe we are finally there with this one!?

What do others think, shall we go with the below title

*'Not Alone' Friendship & Support Group (NAF's) *
(Dealing with Childlessness)

Have we cracked it ?

Love
Hippy
xxxx


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## s.a.f.

As one of the people who suggested the current title of our thread ie. moving on - deciding and accepting, I want to explain the rationale behind it as I am concerned that we are almost going full circle (the original title was something like "living childfree" which we all hated!)......

Firstly I would say that if we call the thread simply "childless not by choice" this doesn't distinguish it from the other threads as nearly everyone on the whole site is "childless not by choice"  at this point in time - the point of our particular thread is that it is aimed at those "at the end of the road" (or nearly there).

The important purpose of the thread is to help people to deal with the probable finality of it all & to stop looking back but look forward at how to make the best of the rest of your life (although "accepting" that you may never come to terms with the situation 100%). 

In many ways this is similar to a bereavement (yes I know it's not the same but its a reasonable analogy)  - you know you will never fully come to terms with it however before you can "move on" by facing up to the future you have to "accept" that in all probability you are going to be childless - when I say "accept" I don't mean in a spiritual sense - I just mean "recognise" it (or "admit" it to yourself) - in the same way that a bereaved person has to accept that whatever they do their loved one is not coming back - of course this is the hard part but its what we need to help each other do - only then can you look at the rest of your life and focus on how you can improve it for yourself, for those around you and what you can contribute to the wider community in general. So that's the "moving on" and "accepting" bit.

The "deciding" bit - was for those who are not yet at the end of the road or who can't quite bring themselves to "accept" that they are at the end of the road  - i.e. those still looking at one more tx try ("one for the road" as people often say!) or maybe considering alternatives such as different tx or adoption. This of course is a very difficult stage but one which most people have to work their way through before they can reach the "accepting" bit and the people on this thread can help those in that stage regardless of which way the person eventually "decides" to go.

I hope that this makes sense and doesn't offend anyone - I just wanted to explain the rationale and share my perspective on the aims of this thread.

Finally I must throw in a few words about the "More to Life" organisation title. For me, it is a hugely uplifting name for an organisation. I have been dealing with our infertility situation for 19 years and when I first heard about the "More to Life" organisation it was like a light at the end of the tunnel. Rather than a rather negative grim sounding "childless support group" it gave me the inspiration that it is still possible to find a way to live a reasonably fulfilled and happy life even if you've not been fortunate enough to have children - and I think that this persective is what we all need. 

OK then - that's my rant over............

S.A.F.


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## pipkin

Hi Gang

First off, I would be happy to be part of the 'NAF' group - what an excellent and dare I say amusing title.  Well done Astrid   Actually I thought we had cracked it with that one but having read s.a.f's post I am torn now as she makes some interesting observations 

s.a.f., you make some very valid points and I see where you are coming from.  However (I bet you knew there was a 'however' coming didn't you   ) It seems we are never going to fully 'agree' with the title as we are all at such different stages.  Also each person is reading the very same words in a different way from the next, ie. one person might be seeing a certain word as say flippant for example and the next person is perhaps seeing them as a breath of fresh air - it is a minefield isn't it!!

At the end of the day, whatever the thread is called I would still be here - it is the people, like yourself s.a.f that make this place special so I suppose a title is somewhat unimportant in the big scheme of things isn't it!!!  Just make sure there are the words 'friendship or support' in the title and I will be happy!

Over to you Astrid 'our great leader'  

Lots of love
Pipkin xxxxx


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## Hippy

S.A.F - I feel so awful having just read your post  as in my usual Hippy stride in with both boots on approach I didn't even think or take in that the original title on this thread had been carefully chosen by members on here such as yourself, and so I feel really, really bad at how critical my original post must have come across  , please forgive me   I am not sure how I thought the existing title had got there in the first place. . . that is my prob I just don't always think   !!!!!!!!

I thought your full description of what the existing title was trying to reflect was very helpful, thank you for sharing this info.

I wonder if perhaps after all my stirring up of this title change idea, perhaps the conclusion is we will never all be able to find one that truly reflects the stage or path we are all individually on, (although I do still like the last few title suggestions people have made   ) but it hopefully it has been interesting exercise and a thought provoking one that has established what a diverse and lovely bunch we all are  

Love & apologies  
Hippy
xxxxx


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## astrid

Hello Girls
Hey Hippy what you started was an interesting post and i think its great that it has lead to so much discussion on this issue...
I think and agree that S.A.F has raised so many valid points and at the time we wanted to change the orignial name because that also made us feel alittle uncomfortable.. I know S.A.F and i am sure that she will not take it personally (is that right S.A.F)?
I think its good that we are finding a name that we feel happier about....and of course we all look at things from different angles...
Maybe like the over 40's thread, could this one be divided into 2 sub divisions?the beginning and the moving on bit?..maybe we could put this forward to Tony....There are different stages of this road and again as you mentioned we need to take everybody into consideration.
We can put a vote in, with atleast four suggestions, including this orignial title for the board as well...
I do like the ring of 'Not alone',......because this was one big help and support for me, knowing i wasn't alone in this whole IF journey...
So onwards and forwards....please everyone make a suggestion and we will start a poll....i don't think we can ever hit the right name....its a shame that there is even a section for this,...i wish things could be different?
But i have to agree with Hippy a name does put me off....and i know 'More to life' is a good name...but when you are in the early stages of giving up. Just trying to cope with the whole issue of not having your own child does not help by being told there is more to life?. I wanted my life to be children and i couldn't see that there was more to life at the beginning...So again i think we do need a name to cover all phrases because FF, is about helping those that are dealing with making decisions and coping with childlessness...
Does that make sense?
Again we still need to look at the word 'childlessness', because this does speak for most females/males on the website...and my aim personally is to support people that are dealing with the end stages of treatment/no treatment and having to face the realities of not maybe having their own biological child. Supporting each other and assisting that 'moving' on to making other decisions...or coping with living child free( not by choice)...
Love Astridxx

My Suggestion is...

'Not Alone' Friendship and Support Group (Moving Forward)


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## s.a.f.

No worries Hippy !! Of course no offence taken !!  - (don't worry, Astrid knows me very well - in fact we had an interesting chat about it this lunchtime - somehow she managed to bake 3 fruit cakes whilst talking on the phone to me !!)

I'm happy with any of the titles suggested - I just thought it worth explaining how we got to the current one. 

But I do think that it needs to be made clear that the thread is aimed for people at the end/or nearly at the end of the road (because there are other threads for people at other stages).

love

S.A.F.


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## jq

Hello everyone,

I feel so privileged to read all of your thoughts on this subject. There have been so many great ideas that I can't do justice to everyone. Hope you don't mind my focusing on Astrid's last few posts and taking up her suggestion of suggesting a title.

I think Astrid is amazing for being able to hold onto this whole debate! I am absolutely certain that Astrid will resolve all the issues we have raised since Hippy did so well as to open this question.

*First of all about having 2 threads*. I'm not too sure about this one, Astrid, as I think the process is not easily divided into 2 parts, and so members may want not to have to divide themselves between 2 threads. I hope my next paragraphs explain what I mean!

I think the first steps on our new path are about stopping or saying "No" to ttc treatment. This is often less about accepting/deciding to leave the ttc path and more about recognising we cannot go along that route anymore. The reasons we leave that ttc path may be different (too tired and weary, too much dissapointment, medical advice, age, lack of money....) But whatever the reason, we have come to the end of our personal ttc road,

The next steps may be about "letting go" of the dreams we held so dear while actively ttc.

However these steps are not always easy to distinguish.

Sometimes those who had chosen ttc through the treatment route can afford or are offered another go and so have one more try, as S.A.F. so well describes. Having that one last go may mean walking *parallel* to the old ttc path for a while. But it is only a parallel path, not exactly the same. By this last go we walk with less optimism than we may have felt at our first treatments and maybe we have acknowledged (though we may not *accept*) that the odds really are against us. We may be saying "O.k. When I have done this I will know I have done all I can, and then I can stop." Saying that has already begun to prepare us for a new path that is not ttc. It is this difference in approach (i.e. less optimistic about conceiving and giving birth) ) that marks our path as different from that of our earlier ttc route. If we are very lucky indeed, we will have a child, and our path will then re-merge with that of those for whom earlier treatment has been successful. In that case we will no longer need this thread. But if, as we dread, it really does lead to the end of the ttc road, we will have to learn to move on to a different future.....a future that this thread can support us with.....

which is back to about *"letting go" *

Giving up ttc or saying no to treatment is not always the same as letting go of the dream. We may know that treatment is not our way forward. We may know that we are very unlikely to have a biological child. But many of us still, and perhaps almost secretly, hold onto the dream of some kind of miracle. (Hopes for a miracle may start with a final-against-the-odds treatment, which is why I would not want to exclude those who still need to give it one more go.) Mostly, day to day, and as we get older we learn to let go, however it remains tough at times. (Even as I must be approaching menopause, a late period makes me wonder if, just maybe, there will be a miracle.....)

These "miracles" we still sometimes think of lie beyond reason and logic (Perhaps bar a hysterectomy - I apologise if my biological ignorance means I am wrong here.) Hopes for a miracle are often fed by media stories and those tales our well meaning family and friends relay to us.

Maybe it is not until we let go of hopes for a miracle that we are we truly ready to "move on." Thus "letting go" is perhaps an even longer process than the recognising the end of the ttc road which can be quite abrupt. (If for example, consultants say they will no longer treat us or if we run out of cash. )

*"More to life." * I have to say that I don't like this phrase. It reminds me of perhaps well meaning but hurtful advice on this topic. It also rings bells of when people are putting you down outside the whole IF thing! "There's more to life than...(XXX) ..you know!"

*The words childless and childfree are also difficult.* (Sorry as I did endorse an earlier suggestion that included the word "childless.") Childless seems to exclude those who had a biological child before IF, or have a step son or daughter or an adopted/fostered son or daughter. Childfree also excludes these parents and sounds a bit as though children are a burden, or like advertising on ebay that what you have is really good as it's from a "smoke and pet free home"!

*My suggestion is a bit long! * It is intended to be inclusive and to recognise the strength of this thread which is the support and friendship. It is only an extension of Astrid's idea and is

"Not Alone Friendship and Support. (Letting Go and Moving On)

Hope this helps?

Jq


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## Hippy

You guys are just fab   and what wise and interesting posts you have shared. 

S.A.F. - So pleased hun I haven't caused you any offence, I would have been mortified to have upset anyone on this wonderful thread  

Astrid - You super trooper you, not only do you bake cakes at the same time as being on the phone you come up with wise and wonderful titles too  

JQ - Fab post you really nailed the explanation and description of what really letting go is and involves, found that soooo helpful and could so relate to all you shared.

I think if we get the title as good as we can then the need for having two different threads may not be needed, or we can always have continuing sub thread within this one like they have on most of the other ones i.e. if you go onto the donor thread they have a continuous thread within it for those on the tx and then separate ones running along side for those successful with tx, so people can go to the one of the stage they are at and yet still follow friendships and dip into the other threads if wished, all under one umbrella title.

LOVE the latest title proposal supported by Astrid and Jq - 'Not Alone Friendship and Support Group (Moving on)' as despite my original struggle with the moving on word, tacked onto this new part it seems softer and the moving on bit would have to be kept it in there if we choose not to put the word childless in, because otherwise new people might not know what this thread is for, but in this new context Moving does now seem to encompass most  situations and stages of having not through choice, or sometimes by difficult or situational choice, having to move forward from the reality of having our own, that doesn't imply we have accepted it, but it is where we are right now in a factual sense. So maybe after all this it was actually the word accepting in the title rather than the moving on bit that was really the part causing me most unease? 

So I can I add my vote in for 'Not Alone Friendship and Support Group (Moving on)  

Love
Hippy
xxxxxx


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## Flopsy

Hi everyone,

What a great group with a lot of good ideas. Personally I'm not happy with anything with "moving" in it. I don't feel like I am moving and I don't know if I want to "move".

However, I'm happy to fit in with what everyone else wants as it will still be the same group as before.

May I please ask that we take time to come to this decision and wait a week or so?

Love to all from,


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## irisheyes

Like flopsy i dont really mind the name as long as we are all together-ahhh!!


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## pipkin

I'm happy with the new name.

Flopsy, do you think that 'Moving Through' might be better rather than 'Moving on'

I thought that 'moving through' seemed more of a process than simply 'moving on', however I can understand if you think it sounds like we are all having toilet troubles!

Again, I will go with the majority - so am happy with the title as it stands.

Ahh Irisheyes - you big softy _'as long as we're together'_ 

x


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## emcee

Hi ladies

I have read everything you have all wrote with interest, but I have to say I am in favour of Astrid's suggestion of 2 subdivisions because there are those people out there who are newly bereaved in terms of realising that one way or another their hopes and dreams of having a biological family of their own are dashed, whilst there are others who have been travelling this journey for quite a while. (Ermey hon, I know you said you would be berefit if you had to go onto another board to post, I am deeply sorry for bringing this up again and I sincerely hope I don't cause you any upset by mentioning my thoughts here and putting my size sevens right in it)!

My reasoning behind this: If there were 2 subdivisions I would still post in both places because I would want to lend my support and understanding to those who have come to the end of the road tx wise for whatever reasons, but as I've said before I would want to be able to post stuff about my current situation of living child free without fear of upsetting anyone else. I know that it must be difficult for ladies who are newly bereaved to read that life can be good because I have been in that place myself, and if anyone had pointed that out to me at that particular point in my life I would have wanted to spit, snarl, snap and let rip at them! In the same token I want to be able to tell people that life *can* be good again without causing deep distress or upset to others who are (understandably so) in the very raw stages.

I'm also concerned about those of us who decide to have one more go or who go on to adoption etc - just because they may end up sucessfully becoming parents doesn't mean to say that any of the stuff they have been through is cancelled out or forgotten - I believe IF stays with you always no matter what may pan out in the future. This is another reason why I think having 2 subdivisions would come in handy - after all, if I ever made the desicion to adopt I would still have that sense of bereavement of never being able to have my own biological child - and I would want to be able to keep in touch with those I knew who could understand my feelings about this.

Good grief ladies, I hope my witterings made sense! As for the name - well anything with friendship or companionship and/or support in it is a winner with me!

Love to all you special people, and I sincerely hope I have not caused any angst or offence for anyone here.
Emcee x


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## astrid

Dear All

Wow JQ, your post was absolutely wonderfully written. I wish i had that knack. You write so well and the way that you identified the whole stages of IF, is so on the nail. You have thought of every aspect and everyones feelings when addressing the issues of this thread and its meaning. And of course identifying a name that will be appropriate to cover all aspects of our Journey.

Emcee -you also raised some very valid points. Again this has also got us to look at this thread even more closely and its use for the future...I think you also pointed out that we are at different stages and to have that freedom to beable to express how we feel, is important. Again if you are alittle further down the road, the perception on life can be seen differently.....and sometimes this is too painful for some of us to read, if we are in the very early stages of making decisions of letting go of that hope...

Can i explain i went to a counsellor a few years ago and her question was 'what if you never have children in the future, how will you deal with it? Well my answer was nearly to freak. I was not ready for that question and it sent me further into depression...I think we need to be ready to learn to live with things at our own pace...and sometimes we need to feel free in our own space. (I am not sure if i am making sense?)
However its great to support each other because that is also important. I was just going to suggest 2 titles on the same thread...maybe one including the early /middle phrases ad the other title more to do with learning to live without our own child...(further down the road)..(not these titles of course)
Then you have an option?To go into both...please take alook at the over 40's board..there isn't a big subdivision.If not we just stay to gother and keep posting alongside each other as FRiends...

Hippy- this has been a fantastic posting and i am so glad that it has brought out all our thoughts on the issues surrounding IF... and what this thread is all about.I think it has been powerful and thought provoking in a very positive way...We will get there and until we do, any thoughts are still welcome..

lots of love astridx


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## Hippy

Hi everyone, more fab ideas on here as usual from everybody   like the idea of one thread but possibility two subdivisions within it which is similar to a lot of other threads on this site i.e the donor thread, ICIS, Over 40's etc.

As Crimbo is now fast approaching and this thread has rumbled on for awhile now, shall we put all our ideas on hold to revisit and finalise in the New Year as I note some people specifically asked if we could wait a bit longer before any final decisions are made?

Who knows we may even get more amazing sparks of inspiration over Crimbo . . . it is amazing what a glass or two of mulled wine can produce tee hee!

HUGE HUGS, and thank yous to everyone who has contributed to this fascinating and as Astrid said really therapeutic and constructive debate we've all had   What a wise and interesting bunch we all are  

Love
Hippy
xxxxxxx


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## Ermey

hello everyone can't be too long cos got 50 odd Christmas cards to write  

Everyone has been so thoughtful and considerate in their suggestions and ideas, and this just highlights what wonderful ladies you all are. 

Firstly, I would like to say that I think the suggested title is wonderful and I would be very happy with it.

Secondly, witohut wishing to be a pain in the bum, I'm not sure I feel happy with the idea of 2 different groups. Emcee, hunny, you haven' offended me sweety, but I do feel quite anxious about being divided! One of my main concerns is how do you know when you are the first board or the second board?? I'm sure we all agree that coming to terms with our grief is not as clear cut as that. I definately have made progress and am more 'accepting' or at least more 'resigned' to my situation than I was 6 months ago, in that my days of raging anger are less frequent then they were, and I no longer consider it an acheivement to have 3 good days on the trot.... I can actually get to a whole week now!    However, my progress is not a smooth, steady, gradual and stable process.  A couple of weeks I was feeling quite well-adjusted and accepting of my lot, but then yesterday I was sobbing and desperately kidding myself that we could have more tx (despite no eggs and no sperm, and the doctors advising against it!  )

What I'm trying to explain is that progress seems to be bumpy and erratic, with ups and downs, and my concern is that if we split into 2 boards then I ( and others?) may fall somewhere in between, as some days I would feel I belong to one, and some days I would feel I belong in the other. for this reason I would probably end up reading both boards anyway.

Also, i want to emphasise that personally I don't find it upsetting to read the experience of people further down the line, such as yourself emcee    In fact I have found it immensely comforting to see the progress that others have made...it gives me hope, because I KNOW you understand, and it gives me light at the end of the tunnel to hear your positive thoughts. As for your bad days too, I feel it is helpful to be aware that the journey is a long one, thats it ok that I am not healed yet, that there is no rush. Of course I understand if others feel differently.

On the other hand, I wouldn't ever want other ladies on here to feel inhibited about airing their feelings/experiences for fear of upsetting newer members of the group in the early stages of their journey.

I guess I am also consicious that I don't get round to posting as much as others partly due to time constraints but also because I go through denial phases where I ignore anything connected to IF, and therefore I wonder if maybe I am being selfish in putting my views forward about this. I really appreciated your comments emcee about people considering adoption still needing support regarding the loss of TTC, as I have been worried that maybe I am being insensitive by using this board. I realise that all our situations are different and I wouldn't want to cause anyone offence.

I guess its just I feel that since I stopped tx I had nowhere else to turn to on FF, and I would have been in a very very VERY lonely and scary place without the support that you girls have provided, and I am scared of losing this safe place. 

Thanks for listening, sorry again for sticking my oar in, and in case I don't say it again, have a VERY HAPPY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!!


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## flipper

Hi there ladies, I can see that this topic has sprouted legs since I last logged in!

A number of the sentiments resonate with me and I quite like the idea of sub-division but would be concerned that maybe we don't have enough regular traffic to sub-divide! That said, it might encourage more. Who knows.

I like quite a few of the "rebranding" suggestions put forward but what ever we end up calling ourselves, I personally will not think twice about the name of the board when I visit, I will think about the people who are posting within it.

flipper


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## jq

Oh my dear new friends, I so much love us all for the thought and care we show one another here.

Like Ermey, I am still worried about 2 boards dividing us. This may be selfish, but as a woman long past ttc I still feel more in common with those who have recently "given up ttc" than I do with so many other people when it comes to discussing how my life feels and giving and receiving support. I want to stay with Irisheyes! Like Ermey, I do not feel that whatever we call it,  "moving on/forward/through" is not a smooth road. I go back as often as I move on! 

However, I may be missing some technical understanding when it comes to 2 titles on the same thread as suggested by Astrid for whom I have the greatest respect. Astrid, as our moderator I really trust you to make the right decision. But would both boards/threads have you at the helm?You are so important to us all here.

Most of all I am so pleased to read that Flipper will be relating to the people posting far more than to the board title, and that like me, Ermey appreciates the support here.

Emcee, I also want to be with you! Just as others on this FF site move from one board to another as circumstances change, I feel some people who say no to treatment or who give up on it may want to stay on this board (whatever it is called) a while and later move onto one about adoption or fostering.  Also, "adopters" can still use this board. So I don't think this board excludes people whose "moving on" takes the adoption route. I guess ( having not looked) that the adoption board on this site allows IF adopters to explore their feelings about IF in a way not so possible elsehere?

Respect to Hippy for suggesting we give this a break over (the dreaded ?) Xmas holiday to buy us some thinking time. As Hippy suggested we rethink this title I would like to honour her suggestion for some time out, especially as this reflects other suggestions from Flopsy and others.

So much care here! Love to all

Jq


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## astrid

Dear Girls
I think you are so right about the splitting of the board, maybe its not such a good idea!!! The reasons being as Flipper pointed out, that there probably isn't enough people on the board to split..Durr i never thought about that? I suppose it was about testing the ground with everyone and seeing whatever everyones thoughts were also on this matter...
I agree with one thing its a very intimate board, with such lovely people and it would be a shame to go split. We are a part of a lovely group, whether temporary or alittle longer, its about friendship and support.  
I have also identified that it doesn't matter where we are? what stage? we are there to ease our pain and to help other along the way and also to hear positive stories. I think Ermey and Hippy pointed out that they do welcome any thoughts that come from others who are further down the road and this does help...And as Emcee says she was concerned about this, but atleast we can feel free to beable to say that life maybe does get easier..we can laugh again and we can also start living..But we are all human and as Emcee/JQ says we still get those 'bite on the bum moments' ....so wherever we are, we still need support from time to time.So basically we do not have to worry or feel inhibited about what we contribute, we just respect each other and our own views are recognised in a positive light. 
Hey isn't that great....i know and i am sure that you feel the same way, that we cannot put faces to the names....(just a few from the last meet) But we already have a good healthy respect for each other and i feel like i know you already. Maybe we can meet up again in the 2007 and open a bottle of wine or two!! 
If you feel it would be better to leave until after Xmas (the name) then so be...but carry on with all your input, because it helps to build the bigger picture...
Thanks for all the lovely words...Hey we are all part of this and with each others input where would we be? honesty and feeling safe is something i have craved for years since we started our journey. I do feel one thing though, which does get me through the day and that is knowing 'i am not alone'.!!
Thanks Astridxx


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## astrid

Hi There Girls
So what are we going to do
I am interested to pick this up where we left it....what do you think?
Leave it as it is, or change the title?

lots of love astridx


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## s.a.f.

why don't you discuss it at your meet-up , decide on a couple of alternatives and then put them out here for a vote ?

S.A.F.


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## Hippy

S.A.F - think that is great plan of action, I'd be hapy to vote on any new names you guys come up from your meet up   + some of the ones already suggested on this thread.

Love
Hippy
xx


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## jq

Just wish everyone could come! xxx jq


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## astrid

Dear ALL
Great idea S.A.F!!!
I along with JQ wish everyone could come along also...
Hopefully we will come up with some ideas Hippy and present them to you and everyone...and then maybe we could start a vote...
Thanks Astridxx


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