# Friends "absent" or no support - advice needed



## nbr1968 (Feb 25, 2008)

I know I have posted here before but I am spiralling downwards on a lonely path and have nowhere else to turn right now.

I am sorry to waffle on, but I would really appreciate your honest comments because as you will see later, I have no one else to ask.

Since my son's funeral and certainly since my recent ectopic/mc I have been struck by my friend's almost complete absence.

When I was in hospital during the ectopic scare in November 09, I kept in touch with people via text. Then as it was running up to Xmas I sent a "round robin" text, saying we would be a bit quiet over Xmas "licking wounds and trying to come to terms with what had happened in 2009", and would get in touch in the New Year. We just wanted to forget 2009 and did not want to celebrate anything.

The New Year came and went and I just started to feel worse emotionally and got into a very dark place. I stopped answering the phone, but then when I felt able to pick up the phone again, I got a couple of calls from three friends who asked how I was? I tried to keep it together, but when they started to say "time would heal" and "things will get better" I ended up breaking down and crying down the phone and to be honest was pretty incoherent (could hardly talk through the tears) (At this point I would say that all my friends have atleast one child, most now grown up and one even has a new grandchild. None have ever lost a child or had mcs or had IF problems). One friend actually said "I am sorry I called you, I did not want to make you feel worse"

What has happened since that last call is that pretty much everyone has been conspicuous by their absence. No calls, no texts, no emails - nothing. No attempt to see how we are, to try and visit, to even send a card.

Throughout our first 3 txs we kept everything to ourselves - we are private people, and we told no one we were having TX (we thought that would give us less stress - avoid the need to tell people it hadn't worked etc). We kept all the BFNs and all the failed IVFs to ourselves - we just picked ourselves up and dusted ourselves off and got on with the next tx. We only told friends about "the journey" when our son died and in order to stop hearing the "well, it happened once for you, you could get pg again" platitudes, I told them all that we had gone through hell and back to get my (then) one and only BFP in over 10 years of TTC,and it was highly unlikely to "happen again" without a great deal of medical intervention.

*Do you think that because I was so secretive for all those years and just kept everything to ourselves, and kept a "stiff upper lip" even through all the failures, that now that I am clearly unravelling before their very eyes, they don't know how to deal with me?* Usually I am so "together" or so they thought.

Or are they staying away because they think it will help? Or what? This is all making me more sad - I am trying desperately to cope with my grief and have no one (other than DH) and FF to talk to.

I read on another thread that a lady said that being open with people often drives them away and that's how I feel right now. Someone else said she did not tell because she feels that sometimes people in "real life" get a sort of "voyeuristic" kick out of feeling that at least their lives are not as bad as ours. I am beginning to feel that now - that by telling people about everything and being really open and honest, all I have done is expose my problems and now I feel really stupid for being so honest because I am sure some of them at least are talking to each other about me. I hate to think I am "dinner party fodder" - a*m I being paranoid?* We are not being invited to events that last year we would have been part of. In one year I have gone from having a handful of friends to feeling like they have all gone.

Can it really be that my friends "damned if they do and damned if they don't"? Are they friends at all and now do I have to face up to that fact alongside everything else? I am feeling really sad about all this and the effect that IF has had on my whole life.


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## coweyes (Sep 4, 2008)

nbr1968   I dont really know what to say but dont want to read and run.  I do think that people dont really know what to say and its easy for us to become annoyed with what ever anyone says cos they dont really understand.  I have begun to feel quite distant from many of my friends and i know its difficult for them to.  But i think its important for us to try and maintain a normal excistance regardless of our IF issues.  Why dont you textt  a few of your friends and arrange to do something fun.  Something that does not necessary involve sitting around talking, eg go carting??.  You may all hopefully begin to feel more at ease with each other and that is a good foundation to rebuild things xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Kitten 80 (Feb 20, 2009)

Nbr   I will post better soon


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## florie (Nov 28, 2006)

Hi Nbr 

So sorry you are feeling so down  

I know what you mean about people keeping their distance, i have lost several so-called friends as i think they just didn't know what to say to me anymore and i probably reminded them that infertility can strike anyone.

I agree with cow eyes that you could contact some of your closer and friends and arrange an activity such as shopping or cinema so that you have a distraction and all the focus isn't on you. I doubt people are not inviting you to activities deliberately, they perhaps don't know how you are feeling about things at the mo. I think it would be good if you could talk to a couple of them about how you are feeling... honesty is the best policy!  I find that text messaging is a bit dodgy because it can easily be misinterpreted. And perhaps like you said putting a brave face on tings as made them think you are coping, they might really want to help if they know the truth.

But the main point i wanted to make is have you thought about trying to make some new friends? (i don't mean replace your old ones, just expand your social network a bit) the only reason I'm saying this is because i remember you said before how low you were feeling, perhaps an evening course would be a good place to start? It would get you out and about and meeting people, the focus wouldn't be on your fertility at all. Or perhaps you and your DH could join a club......i used to go salsa dancing and it was fab, it's relatively cheap, fun and good exercise! I met lots of people and no one ever asked me about children.

There is also an organisation called 'more to life' which is for people who are involuntary childless and want to meet people in a similar situation to expand their social netwok without it being all about kids! Here is the link - http://www.infertilitynetworkuk.com/moretolife/

Food for thought !

I really don't want to sound like i am suggesting your old friends don't matter and yo should replace them, i just thought it might help. I know you are going through such a tough time.

Don't forget everyone on here is v supportive too 

Take care
Florie xx

/links


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## Bambam (Feb 14, 2008)

nbr reading what you've said it sounds like it may be a mix of them giving you the space you asked for and them not wanting to upset you further   This would also mean that they are in fact good friends as not so good friends wouldn't respect how you are feeling or care about upsetting you. Platitudes rarely help in any situation and are usually said by people who have no experience of that particular situation such as IF, death of a loved one, break up of a marriage etc.. but I do think that they are always said with the best of intentions. They are probably waiting for you to let them know you are ready to see them again so perhaps arrange a 'fun' evening such as having them over for dinner; going bowling; to a local pub quiz etc...

Amanda xx


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## Mrs Rock (Jun 30, 2009)

Nbr I'm glad you posted this because now your FFs can be here for you at least in this small way.  Can I please give you my sympathies on the loss of your son and your ectopic.

Of course it's hard to know without knowing your friends but my impression would be that given your preference for privacy in earlier txs, your friends simply do not have the first clue how much you have been through, and how much harder all that history has made your most recent losses.  I know you have told them about it all now, but they did not live through it wth you and have no experience of it.  And to be totally frank I personally think from bitter experience with my own friends that unless they have experienced IF themselves, they simply cannot empathise with how it feels.  I have completely lost one good friend because of it.  She just did not want to deal with how I feel about IF and what a big issue it is in my life and so quite simply she is no longer my friend, I think it was a fairly mutual thing in the end.

However I think the possible difference between my ex friend and your friends is that mine didn't want to have to deal with it whereas I think yours may want to - they were phoning -but they don't know how.  And the text you sent out over the xmas period was a very clear "We want to be left alone" message.  When your friend said she was sorry for ringing and making you feel worse, I think she meant exactly that, that she did not want to upset you by talking about it, not that she was sorry she called you in itself.  I had a sudden bereavement once and a very caring friend said something very similar when she called me and I sobbed uncontrollably - she told me to stop telling her about it for now.  But what she was trying to say was "please don't talk about this now as it's making you so upset and I want you to feel better"  People don't always realise that sometimes you  just need to get it all out.  

I think unfortunately it's going to be your job to do a little bit of reaching out.  You won't know for sure, unless you try. I do know how you feel as I have felt very sad and disappointed in many of my friends and family for the same reasons.  But a few solid caring people have stuck with me and I know they are true friends, though they are small in number I would not swap them for 100s of shallow fair weather fun friends.  I hope some of yours will be the same. They don't fully understand, like I said, as they have not been through it, but they do sincerely care. Hopefully you have one or two the same.

Mrs R xx


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## nbr1968 (Feb 25, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. I think you are all right that my friends are not trying to hurt or ignore. I think my text was read as "we want to be alone", whereas I had meant "we want to be alone for a bit". A big misunderstanding.

I know that I need to get a grip - I need to contact them and make the first step forward - try and do something "non" IF related as you say (with them) - the thing is that I have become so introspective, desperate and I am just so "low" that I hardly want to leave my house. I (literally) am becoming scared of going anywhere - for fear - of seeing pg people, children, babies in prams etc, happy family scenarios - just makes me feel even more bereft....I don't like hearing about other people's children's achievements - I am just so bitter - when I used to get together with friends, they would all talk about what their kids were doing - university, jobs, marriages etc. I used to be happy to listen, thinking "me one day - I will have something to say one day". I can be happy for a while, but then it only takes one "trigger" (an advert, an announcement of pg (and that can include complete strangers - even celebrities ) and I am back to wanting to go to sleep and not wake up.

Everything just seems so pointless now and I have done nothing but my work since November. And I am even wondering, what's the point of working so hard? At weekends I just potter about my house - my DH goes to football, and we've both been to the cinema, but even then if a pg woman sits near me, I become so upset.

I had thought about meeting other people, but then I fear the obvious questions - you know - after the "what job do you do?", there's always the "any children?" with new people - it's just so natural to ask about people's family. Right now I am struggling to get through a day without welling up - I come to FF several times in the day for "support". I cannot be breaking down in front of strangers who are going out for a good time/or at an evening class.

I really think that such a lot has changed in my mindset in the last five years - when I was in my 30s I felt there was hope - I had so much PMA. I hit 40, thought I had hit the "jackpot" in March and now I just feel that life is so bleak, and part of me thinks that people are avoiding me because I am like some sort of emotional vampire - sucking the positivity out of the air and replacing it with this "fog" of despair.

I will look at the "more to life" site - I know in my rational mind that there is more to life than children - it's just that i've spent the best part of a quarter of my life trying to become a mother, that I am truly lost right now. When I was having the last tx I blamed it on the drugs - now they've left my system, I know this is depression.

If I do ring my friends, what should I say to be honest? - realistically if I feel that they cannot understand because they have not experienced child-loss, IF, mc, am I going to have to accept that things have irrevocably changed with friends? I only really have about 6 friends (I used to have lots of friends but slowly as their lives have all moved on, I detached myself to protect myself from the seemingly unending stream of pg announcements)


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## florie (Nov 28, 2006)

Just to say the 'more to life' site is for the involuntary childless so there is a lot of support there and people in similar circumstances, so no difficult questions  . I know someone who has attended a few 'meet ups' and thought it was really good   xxx


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## Tama (Feb 6, 2009)

Nbr hun my heart goes out to you   A lot of what you have said is how I've felt. I can't imagine what you have been through in the last 10 years and to have lost your baby must just be the hardest thing, I'm truly sorry.

I think what everyone has said is good advice, make contact with your friends, the ones you feel will really be there for you. 

One experience I've had is with my best friend. She and I got married 3 weeks apart from each other. DH and I had been ttc for just over 2 years at that point. Three months after our weddings she calls to say she is pg. My world fell apart. I had three weeks off work, I didn't want to eat, I wanted to sleep all day and never wanted to leave the house. I saw her twice during her pregnancy and the pain after those two days drove me mad. I just couldn't face seeing her, hearing about her scans what names she was picking. Fast forward 8 months she gives birth and I had to force myself to visit her. Just seeing her with him broke my heart (how selfish does that make me sound but that was how I felt). Fast forward 5 months and I met with her for the day. It was like sticking pins in my eyes having to smile and watch her bounce him on her neck and kiss is little face. So in 14 months I've seen her 4 times. She doesn't call me often, she doesn't text much and when she does call it is very hard. Neither of us know what to say. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel alone and scared about what the future holds and most of all I feel cut off from all my friends, they don't want to upset me so they don't ask about tx, if they do as that upsets me having to tell them it failed again and so the cycle goes on.

If you think it would help maybe write to them. I wrote a letter to my best friend trying to explain how I feel and it really helped me express how I feel as I find it hard to talk to people without getting upset. Maybe that will help you put into words how you feel and in turn may help your friends. I'm sure they love you and just don't know how to handle the situation.

I have made a very good friend on FF, she and I talk on the phone and met up in London just last month. It helps to talk to someone that knows how I feel, knows the sadness, heartache and pain that IF inflicts on you. Do you know if there is a local FF support group near you?

If you ever want to chat please pm me I'm more than happy to listen and chat   I hope some of this makes sense! I do tend to go on a bit  

Take care hun xx


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## Coco Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

nbr1968   

I echo what some of the ladies have said here.  I don't think your friends are ignoring you, I think they probably are at a loss as to what to do or say that can make you feel better.  When someone has such such a traumatic experience, people around them can feel frightened at the grief surrounding what has happened.  

I hear you are in a lot of pain    and have found some support from ff.  Have you also meybr considered seeing a counsellor?  You will be able to have the space to scream, cry, shout and be accepted and 'held' by someone who won't be frightened by your strength of feeling and will accept whatever it is that you feel.

Sending u lots of


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## Debs (Mar 22, 2002)

Big   to you nbr 

The girls have given you lots of advice which is really good but I just wanted to add one more thing.  You say you will make the contact - but just remember you dont have to do it over the phone or face to face - you could send them a card or a letter with just a short note in explaining that you miss them and would love to see them but the last few months have been hard but right now you feel you need them.

You could also say that you are not at the stage where you can feel comfortable talking babies or going out and seeing bumps and suggest somewhere or something you could do/go which would be "safe" ground eg a salsa dancing where by you get to chat a little but because your busy learning steps or somthing and theres no children about might be easier to handle.

I wish you every luck with your friends hun - do let us know how you get on.

Love n hugs


Debs xxx


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## Mistletoe (Holly) (Jan 1, 2007)

NBR 

You poor darling. If only we could be friends in 'real' life. We could be miserable together, or go and have some fun in a non mummy/baby environment.

What I would say to you is have you considered some professional counselling from a member of the British Infertility Counselling Association? They are specialists and do have some insight (possibly being ex patients) to the real issues in this terrible condition.

I have had a BICA member course of counselling before when DH and I found out we would never have a genetic child together and needed to move on to donor sperm. She was helpful and tried to help me change my mindset with various techniques so that I could move on. You can't change events in your life, but you can change the way you think about them.  

I have just started counselling again - this time a general counsellor offered to me by the hospital after my miscarriage. It is early days, but I am hoping to get somewhere with my thoughts and feelings.

It might make you feel more normal if I tell you that I learnt from the counsellor that it takes a full 2 years, maybe longer to work through all the stages of grief properly, and you have to do it at your pace. A self help book on grief has also been useful. 

I would also say that I am feeling an absence of friends. No one ever contacts me to suggest a meet up. I always have to do the running. All of my friends have 2 children and I have to put it down to them being busy or them thinking that I am at work or in the middle of treatment, or want to be alone. Otherwise I would be paranoid.

I have to also say that whenever I have reached out to them, they are there with open arms and let me talk, and me also listen to their worries - that is very important - they have worries too - it might be about their sick children or parents getting ill and not being able to childcare as they are about to go back to work, but it is their worry and friendship is two ways. In some ways it helps - however much I suffer from infertilty, motherhood is hard too.

Finally, I do not want you to take this the wrong way, but if you haven't already, have you considered seeing the GP for some antidepressants? I have two friends that have taken them, and after a couple of weeks, they uplift you enough to give you a window in which to repair your life and get back on a more positive track. I am also saying this because I am a pharmacist and feel I would refer you to the doctor if you came to me in a professional capacity. The GP can also organise counselling.

Sweetheart - we are here if you need us - PM me any time.


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## Mrs Rock (Jun 30, 2009)

Hi Nbr I just wanted to reply to a couple of things you said in your second post.  As Hazel said also, it struck me that anti depressants might help you if you haven't tried them already.  I have taken them in the past, a few yearsb ago and nothing to do with IF it was when I was trying to come to terms with badly injuring my back and losing my ambitions in sport and suffering a lot of physical pain. I was off work with the injury for 6 weeks and feeling very isolated and miserable, and I found they really helped me feel better.  That welling up several times and day and not wanting to leave the house which you describe sound like symptoms they might help to me, cos I had them too.  I'm not medically qualified but just want to share my experience.  The GP told me they give you some support whilst you are dealing with the things that are upsetting you so much and that's how it worked for me.  They just help you to see over the top of the hole you are in so that you can think about how you might try to climb out.  

The other thing I was going to say was in answer to your question that does your friends not understanding IF mean your friendships have to irrevocably change?  I have struggled with this myself and I think the answer maybe yes, but it does not have to mean they will end.  As Hazel says everyone has things happen in their lives which cause them pain and worry.  At the moment for example around me it seems like an epidemic of my friends' marriages breaking up and my goodness, one or two of them have been utterly distraught.  I comfort myself with the idea that I can't know thier pain and worry (emotional, financial, worry about affect on children etc) as my DH and I are totally solid, just as they don't really understand how I feel about IF, but we are trying to be there for each other, and the trying is worth a lot.  

I hope today finds you feeling a little better,

Mrs Rxx


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## panorama (Feb 7, 2005)

Hi nbr

I know we have spoke in the past and this is something I have gone through myself so I totally know where you are coming from. Unfortunately grief and death especially of a young child is something most people prefer to avoid as it is something that most people don't even want to contemplate. It is not that they don't want to help, it is just that they don't know what to do and indeed I myself did not know how they could help really. 

I had a hard time with just about everyone, my sisters, my friends, even my parents and inlaws. After Alex's funeral there was no phonecalls pretty much at all, I got to a point of feeling extremely low like you, it is such a dark place to be. My main help was from my DH, admittedly my friends who had no kids, and from a friend I made on FF who had been through the same just a month before me. 

Everyone else was in the midst of having babies or had young children and a few meets I went to made me actually feel worse than not going, I really felt like   them when they complained about their kids! 

So I became a real recluse for a year, and to be honest the first year you really just want to go to sleep and not wake up most of the time! It feels so raw to begin with and so hard not to feel every single date, and what you would have been doing. It is still hard down the line but that rawness does subside after a while, although I think it took me two years to feel a teeny bit better.


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## panorama (Feb 7, 2005)

For some reason screen keeps jumping after a while....  

Anyway what I am trying to say is that it is 'normal' to feel so bad after such a horrible loss, it is tiring and it is horrible but there is really not much that can make you feel better. It is so normal to feel bitterness, you can't help it. Life moves on for everyone else and its like being stuck in a black hole.

After a few months of not hearing from anyone I just had to release some frustration   so I called my closest family and friends, some on the phone, some in person and some by letter and was just honest. Some didn't really respond so I have now lost touch, but the ones that did it was what I needed and I think they appreciated it too. Even if when you see them there are tears at least it is a way of releasing your feelings. Like someone else said try and do something with them that will help you, maybe a spa day, shopping, or going out for a drink, something that maybe doesn't involve seeing lots of kids. I then took up a new hobby which I have turned into my new business and it has been my saviour, it is something that I can do and feel good about what I do. It is sometimes hard to know what it is you want to do but maybe start with an evening class where no-one knows you and you can be you again at least for a few hours a week. I have also just started to go to jive classes one evening and it is a lot of fun. Anything that gets your mind off normal life for a while.

I hope your friends and family do respond to you, but hang on in there, it will get better, just takes longer than we think.  

Love Alli xx


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## nbr1968 (Feb 25, 2008)

Hello again - I have read all your replies and all the advice is so much appreciated. Thank you all for taking the time to read and write. Three things have struck me from what you said;-

Counselling - I have called my doc again this am after reading your posts - she has not even sent off the letter to refer me yet - she is not there until Monday now and I will chase it again then. I did go to the BICA website - there is no one who specialises near me but I do see that some offer telephone counselling - BUT, the reason I am waiting on the doc referral is that right now after all the tx and the expense of tx, drugs etc, we simply cannot easily afford the private counselling. It makes me so mad that there are no specialist NHS counsellors being offered to me out there - after all they say 1 in 6 couples suffers some sort of "IF challenge" (see BICA website) and none of this is self inflicted and yet there is so little dedicated support there. I have been discharged from my clinic now and don't plan to go back there so cannot use their counsellor although when I did go to see her three years ago, she was pretty useless TBH. Why does it all come down to whether we have the money or not?

Antidepressants:- Many people have mentioned this to me before - my doc had def offered them to me last year. My reason for not taking them right now is that since we now have no tx planned the only hope we have is TTC naturally - I don't want to be taking anti d's because I am concerned what effects these would have on that - on the developing embryo (if by some miracle that happened). Also I know that you must wean off them, and so if we did want to TTC again using IVF, my worry would be about how long it would take to get off the anti d's and what effect that would have on my mental state when we were trying Tx again. Does that make sense?

I know I have read posts on FF where ladies were taking anti d's while having Tx, and of course there must be so many people who have no IF probs who have conceived healthy children while on anti d's - but I would be so worried about any effects of anti d's, that TBH those concerns would make me more anxious.

Lastly, the issue of how to move forward with the friends - from what you are all saying, it looks like I will have to make the first move forward. The idea of organising something like salsa etc is really good - I just have to get my head together a bit and stop having my "pity party".

There is one thing though - I have to go to the funeral of a friend - there I will see two friends who are part of that group who have made little contact. That is adding to my stress because I know that the funeral itself will be hard for me - in addition to remembering and grieving for my friend, it will be at the same crematorium where my son was cremated and I am dreading going back there - DH cannot come with me so I will be on my own. I cannot bring my feelings up with the two friends at the funeral (obviously) and so it will be awkward. I intend to just get through the afternoon and get out of there as quickly as possible.

The idea of writing a letter is good - or maybe just a card? I will keep mulling that one.

I know it probably sounds pathetic, but just picking up the phone seems so hard right now. I also know that it can be annoying if you are trying to help someone who just does not seem to be helping themselves. I know that although what I am feeling is understandable, there will come a point where unless I show that I am doing something positive, showing that I am moving on somehow, patience of everyone will wear thin. My DH seems to be able to function at a high level - I feel so guilty because he gets up so early and goes to work and I just lie in bed for another couple of hours and drag myself out hardly bothering with my appearance at all.  

I kept a diary since May last year when everything started to unravel with my pg, because otherwise I would be positing on FF everyday! I have kept that up and that does help a little. It is reaching out of my comfort zone that is hindering me.

Thank you all for helping - I will hang on and just ride out this wave - after what Alli wrote maybe just over 7 months is not long enough - if I think that I will give myself 2 years, then look forward to feeling better. The only way out of a hole is up I suppose?


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## Rowan22 (Dec 29, 2008)

Hi again, Nbr,

I'm so sorry that you're struggling with this issue and that you've got to go to a funeral. I'm sure you don't really need that right now! And I do know how you feel, every time I have to go to any funeral at the crematorium where my father was cremated, it brings back all those memories and that was a long time ago. Unfortunately, I think this is normal. 
I can't help you with the friends issue because I don't have any, basically or none of my own age. I lost them when they were having kids and their kids were growing up because we had nothing in common any more. I do think that raising a family takes so much time and effort that parents find it hard to think about anything else and they're too exhausted to do anything else, especially if they're all working, as well. It's true that you can get involved as an honorary auntie and I did for awhile but I can't do it now, it's too painful. I hope your friends do understand how you're feeling, and writing or emailing might be a good idea, instead of phoning. 
I can't go out, either. For months now I've avoided all occasions where children will be present and won't even go to the supermarket, if I can avoid it, outside school hours. This isn't healthy but I can't help it. Seeing families hurts too much. I'm fine with teenagers and older children, who are out on their own, it's just the families with young children that I can't bear, especially when they lose patience with them. It's like fire licking an open wound. I work mostly from home, so I rarely go out. I suspect it will stay that way. In the end, you have to do what will help you cope and enable you to function. I refuse to turn into a gibbering sobbing wreck all the time and I've had no support from anyone, except my husband. This is not the only health issue I have and sometimes I do think I've had more than enough but I do find that a lot of people simply don't understand. People don't know what it's like coping with diabetes, for example, if they don't have it. 
Counsellling is good, if you can get it. I did look into fertility counselling, too but the fees are too high. I don't advocate anti depressants but this is my personal opinion, as I'm not qualified in that area. You do have to get off them eventually and they can have side effects. They did with my husband. There does seem to be a process with grief and you have to go through all the ghastly emotions to get to the other side, at least this is what I've found. It's horrible. I remember screaming in pain when my father died. 
I'm not sure if this is any help to you at all but I couldn't just read and run.  I hope your friends do respond and support you. They may just be waiting for you to say you want to hear from them.  

Rowanx


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## panorama (Feb 7, 2005)

Nbr - sorry to hear you have to go to a funeral, that must be hard especially if it was where your son was cremated   But I just wanted to say you should be proud for being so brave and even going on your own, that takes a lot of guts! See, you are stronger than you think    Hope it goes ok


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## Mrs Rock (Jun 30, 2009)

Hi Nbr

Just on anti ds:  I recall coming off them over 2 weeks, you can swap the pills to syrup form so you can take a tiny bit less each day.  I remember having a couple of headaches in 2nd week but that was it, no probs.

I understand your TTC concerns as I think it's not recommeneded but obv you'd need to discuss with your GP.  I do know someone close to me who conceived her son by accident whilst on fluoxetine - he is now 5 and perfect.  But yes the worry was there, as soon as she knew she was pregnant she came off it.

Finally on state of mind when you stop taking them, I found I knew when I was ready to come off them and was feeling strong enough to cope, I felt ok again and did not have a return to the black hole.  I was concerned I might do, but happily I was fine.  HTH, Mrs Rxx


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## nbr1968 (Feb 25, 2008)

Hello again

Rowan - Hi, good to hear from you again, though I wish for both our sakes that we were not suffering as we are. Thank you for taking the time to reply. I have said this before but I don't know how you deal with all of this AND your serious "other" illnesses.   to you although I know that does not really help but it is heartfelt. I kknow what you mean about anti ds and it is always good to get all diff points of view - but I realise that right now I have to do something because TBH I want to feel better.

Thanks for the info about the anti d's - I am still going to rule them out while TTC naturally for now - though I think that TBH if I wasn't living under the illusion that maybe, just maybe, I could get pg naturally, I really think I would take them sooner rather than later. I am at the stage where I recognise that I need them/need something. I know that if I did get out and exercise that would help too - but until I can get out of bed at a reasonable hour and stop being scared of being outside (like Rowan, I do have those sorts of fears too), that's a goal yet to be achieved.

Re the funeral ; I actually went to a Catholic Mass last Friday and I am afraid that tears were running down my face, I ashamed to say more for my son, than for the person whose funeral it was. It was just seeing the coffin at the front that brought back that day in July last year 

To be fair, the man who died was more known to my DH than me and I was able to rationalise his passing because he was very elderly and had a full wonderful life with children and grandchildren and soooooo many friends, as his legacy. The Eulogy referred so much to this legacy, that I thought "what the hell will they say at my funeral!?". I guess that's why I have been so focussed on the friends issue this week? How self centred am I?

Tomorrow I will just take it a step at a time and if I get from the car park to the chapel I will consider that a good start. 

I will pursue the good advice given by all - the counselling, think more about the anti d's and how long I might take them etc. 

It is so good to have your help -  I really don't know what I would do without FF.


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## Mrs Rock (Jun 30, 2009)

Good luck for going to the funeral tomorrow; will be thinking of you sending strong thoughts x


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## Rowan22 (Dec 29, 2008)

Hi Nbr,

Re anti d's, it has to be your decision. I'd never tell anyone not to take them because I'm not competent to do so, I'm not a doctor and I do know that sometimes they can drag people out of a black hole, as Mrs Rock puts it. That's a good analogy for depression. I wouldn't take them myself because I do think the brain has to process all the emotions, unfortunately, but my husband did for quite a while and they did help with the physical side effects of his depression. They certainly made him sleep; we used to call them knock out pills!
It's kind of you to be concerned for me and others when you have so much to cope with right now. Thank you. As for how I cope, I cry, scream at the universe, hate my body which has let me down in so many ways and occasionally, try things that might actually help, like exercise and meditation. But I do think infertility and other health problems generate a lot of emotion and you have to get rid of it somehow. Depression can be repressed anger and I've been there before. It's also better to let it out before I hurl myself on some young mother screaming at her child in a shop!
Otherwise I have dreams that we win the lottery and I can try surrogacy. I don't think anything else will work. I don't think this body will support a pregnancy, even with donor eggs. My poor husband still does. This is a bit of a problem. 
Talk to your doctor about anti ds. You should get a balanced point of view. I think that you can come off them straight away if you do fall pregnant but you need an expert opinion. I know what you mean about just wanting to feel better. There's a rather good infertility blog which tries to see the lighter side of IF and its subtitle is 'because crying everytime you get your period doesn't seem to help'. She's right and I wish I could stop doing it. Alternatively, I wish the things would just stop. And yes, I worry about not leaving future generations, too. Unfortunately, this thing makes you question your whole identity as a woman. 
I hope you get through the funeral tomorrow OK and I think you're very brave for even thinking about going. 

Rowanx


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## Mistletoe (Holly) (Jan 1, 2007)

NBR, if you want more information about anti-depressants and pregnancy, you, or preferrably your doctor can call the medicines information department in the pharmacy at your local hospital and they will provide you with some information on the risks.

I am sorry you have to deal with a funeral. May be it will help you release some more emotions, and may help you to make contact with the absent friends.

Another thought, if you can't get counselling straight away, the Samaritans are a listening ear. My friend who has suffered with depression for years advocates their unfailing ability to listen in your hour of need.

Another thought, may or may not be a suitable suggestion for you, but has certainly helped me, is adopting a rescue puppy.

I _do not _ mean that this is in any way shape or form a substitute for a baby, and _has_ to be thought about carefully as it is a _big_ everyday commitment. You have to choose the right dog for you (especially if there were a baby), but I do not know how I would have got through the last few months so well without my little Pip.

He has been loving, joyful, licked my tears, made me get up and out into the fresh air for walks and exercise, and has been a devoted friend at all times. (OK, I do mother him a bit too much I admit).


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## Mistletoe (Holly) (Jan 1, 2007)

One more thing about anti depressants - you have to take them for about 6 months after recovery of your mood as at that point there is a lower risk of relapse.

One more thing about my dog, and for that matter my cats and my horse - they never say stupid things! - thinking of the originating thread! The just listen and cuddle.


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