# Clinics with partnerships abroad



## USAJenn

Hi all,

After an initial consultation and mock cycle with a clinic in Prague, I have decided that I would rather proceed with a local clinic/hospital that has a partnership with a clinic abroad as I find the language barrier/communication factor quite a headache. I would much rather deal with someone here and go abroad for the procedure. I know that Spire here in Edinburgh has a partnership with IVI in Madrid and I am staring to look into that. Any others?

Does anyone here have experience of this? I am based in Edinburgh (as my name would indicate ). I know there are plenty of clinics in London that do this, but to me, I might as well travel abroad as London is a flight away too!

Thanks so much in advance for any information you would like to share.


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## Turia

Hi there
GCRM have a partnership with IVI Valencia, although they are Glasgow I think they also have a clinic in Edinburgh.  Just heading back to work after lunch but feel free to message me with any questions.  Have to add both are good but just not worked for me yet (as you can see from my signature!)
Turia x


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## neisey

Hi jenn

I used IVI Madrid and live in Edinburgh.  If there is anything I can help with message me. 

Hi Turia I hope you are well still think of you xx


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## Turia

Hi Neisey

So glad that things are going well for you and your wee one to be!  Thanks for the kind thoughts and yes we think of you too!  I have met up with LilyoftheValley a couple of times now as we planned our next attempts and had hope everything was ok for you.  I'm currently injecting myself with cetrotide, taking my progynova and loads of supplements in the hope that this is 7th time lucky!  FET is 5th Feb  

Take care of yourself but keep in touch and let us know how you are getting on  

(Apologies EdinburghJenn for hijacking your thread - Lily, Neisey and I were all on our 2WW together last year  )
Turia X


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## neisey

Hi Turia

Thanks for your kind post.  I'm feeling very anxious like I am in a dream and still can't believe it's happening. I didn't realise this worrying continues the whole way through but I just feel so lucky to have got this far.  That is nice that you have met up with Lily you were both a great support to me having people to talk to that understand truely helps. 

Oh 5th Feb that's so soon.  I really hope 7 is your lucky number.  I have read your diary and you truely deserve it.  Sending positive thoughts and wishes to you surely this will be your time xxx


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## ElsieF

Hi Edinburghjenn,

I have just had a bit of an expensive and nightmare time with GCRM while trying to do a natural FET cycle with IVI Valencia.

We are cycling with Valencia because that is where our embryos are. Valencia is the HQ of the IVI's and I wanted to go there because they have such a great reputation and (at that time) the frozen egg bank was in Valencia. I wanted frozen eggs as that meant I didn't have to coordinate with someone else's cycle, so could do a natural cycle. 
GCRM's coordination was great in the beginning (i.e. a couple of years ago)

However, as of January 1st, GCRM have all but closed their Edinburgh clinic. They only run a clinic on Mondays and no longer do same day blood test results. I think this is fine if you are doing a medicated cycle, but with doing a natural cycle you need to be scanned and monitored more often than once a week! 

I didn't find this out until I called the coordinator at the beginning of my cycle. (long story but GCRM had given IVI some dodgy scan results, so they wanted a blood test at the beginning of the cycle to rule out the possibility of cysts) The coordinator explained the situ with their reduced clinic in Edinburgh and suggested I try IVF Scotland. Meanwhile I need the blood test asap, so went through to Glasgow for it.

IVF Scotland don't fair to well in this story either - when I called and asked for scans and blood tests the receptionist booked me in, but then a nurse called and said they couldn't because IVI Valencia wasn't on their approved list. I pointed out that IVI Madrid is and same company etc. I asked her to ask Dr Tong. She called back and said that he said no, they could not 'treat' me. Now - 'treating' me was a bit of an overstatement seeing as I only wanted a couple of scans and blood test! (I didn't need drugs or actual coordination as I was talking to ivi myself) so they have no medical grounds for this decision. They said they had a 'contract; with Madrid and not Valencia, so it could only have been that they were not going to get a cut of the fee. 

so - I went back to GCRM who promptly charged me the whole coordination fee and would not deduct the fee they charged for the blood test.!! grrrr. 

so for the next two scans I travelled to Glasgow..
but then I needed a scan and blood test on a Saturday and GCRM no longer do scans on Saturdays. not even in Glasgow.

So I had to go to London!!! I discovered there were no blood labs open in Scotland on a weekend.

So, sorry to rant - I don't know whom I am more ****** off with - GCRM for overcharging and delivering a crap service (i.e. they couldn't actually follow the protocol that IVI wanted, but didn't even say that in the beginning And they sell themselves as coordinators And charge me the fee!)
or IVF Scotland for being so mean spirited. (and annoyingly un-business orientated! it wouldn't have taken much to find out why I needed them and worked out if there was a market and then get themselves a bl**dy cut from Valencia at a later date!!)


Incidentally I had no problem getting a scan and blood test from clinics in London who also didn't have 'contracts' with Valencia. They just charged me 99 for a scan.  IVF Scotland price for the same scan would have been 250 if they could have been bothered.


Hopefully this time our FET will work (we already have gorgeous DS from a couple of years ago, and I have just had a feint BFP - blood test tomorrow (in Glasgow!)


But if we did have to do this again, I am planning to just go to Spain for the duration. I have been very impressed with IVI Valencia. I also saw IVI Barcelona once as I was working there when I needed a san and Valencia arranged that for me at very short notice and no additional cost,. The clinic seem to be very well integrated. 


Sorry to be a downer on both of them! I just thought it might be worth knowing my story as I had no warning that GCRM would suddenly effectively stop providing a decent service.


If you are in Edinburgh then I would suggest you stick with IVF Scotland (despite their money grabbing totally unhelpful nature) simply because its useful to have monitoring, drugs and coordination as nearby as possible. Actual treatment and protocol will be set by IVI - whom have always been fantastic.


Elsie


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## Tincancat

Edinburghjenn. Those with partnerships abroad charge an awful lot of a markup. 
For example when I was looking - around £7500 for Cyprus UK partnership and just 5600 Euros for directly going to the Cyprus Clinic for double donor. All the UK side would be doing was a couple of scans which are easy enough to source yourself. Think about it. 
I know scans can be done easily enough in Scotland, so can blood tests and medications too. Agate is building up a list of places to have such things done all over the country. I will try to find her link.
BW
TC x 
PS try this http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=290729.0


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## ElsieF

Do you know any good places In Scotland  (or more specifically Edinburgh!) Tincat? Maybe you could advise and it's been driving me up the wall!   
I used to live in London - and by comparison it was sooo easy there!  

Places I have contacted re scans in Edinburgh:
The Edinburgh Clinic - expensive, not available every day, have to be booked in advance
IVF Scotland - problems as I described above
Babes in the Womb - do baby scans but didn't do dildo cam ones when I asked (but may do now)
Baby Bond / Ultrasound Direct - not every day and have to book way in advance
there is a new place opened in Corstorphine - ABC4D, but again they are only open on certain days..

As for getting drugs - in Scotland private doctors write to your GP and you pick up the prescription from them. Regular pharmacies don't take private prescriptions from UK doctors, never mind from clinics that are abroad  
If you have an understanding GP then they might write the prescription - but then you'd run into the problem that all prescriptions in Scotland are free (i.e. on the nhs) so you'd need a pretty understanding GP!
GCRM order drugs from a UK company that delivers  (Healthcare at Home I think) so if you want to go down that route it would maybe it would be worth talking to them as to what prescriptions they would take.

I suspect that the ivf scotland and GCRM can charge the markups they do simply because of all of the above! (I noticed GCRM charges 650 for coordination, and a clinic in Wales offers the same package, for coordinating with the same IVI for 350)

I think in the end it depends on what your protocol is. If you know well in advance then perhaps it's doable.
But I am guessing Jenns problem is getting the protocol in the first place!!

It is worth pointing out though that IVI give a 20% reduction in their fee if you use a coordinating service in the UK.  (At least IVI Valencia does, and I presume Madrid would too)

IVI also have very good English speaking "International Coordinators" that would speak to you directly( in fluent English  ) if you don't want to use a coordinating service. 
(This is why I would feel fine about just going over there myself next time!)


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## Tincancat

Hi Elsie

I a sorry to have butted in on your thread.  I will try my best to pass on what I know from my own experience plus based on my passing findings from this website, whilst I have been off sick following foot surgery with little else to do!  

OK first I understand you can get Endometerial scratch done for £85 at Nuffield in Glasgow so if they do that for £85 they must do other things -try asking.  However Agate is a mine of information on scan places etc all over the country and helped me when I got stuck.  Try contacting Agate via the link above.

Prescriptions is more my area as I used to work in a pharmacy and know how things work in the UK.  Since 2008 UK pharmacies are permitted to dispense European prescriptions.  The pharmacist has to be sure the doctor is fully registered and the medications dispensed must be UK licensed preparations: so no Prontogest and the such! i.e Gestone would be given on a generically written prescription calling for progesterone injection.  Many Asda pharmacies will supply on European prescriptions and other on-line pharmacies such as Fertility2U will dispense against them too.  In fact Fertility2U even offer a conversion service for scripts that are non-EU.  Whereby your foreign prescription is rewritten by a GMC registered doctor in the UK for around £25. Medication is them delivered to your door.  My local pharmacy 'threw a fit' when I presented an EU script and would not dispense as the doctor was not GMC registered and is did not know how establish if the doctor was properly registered in their own country.  It all depends on the pharmacy and if they are familiar with the clinic abroad.

Dogus the IVF clinic I am with have a Scottish lady called Julie, whose partner is Turkish also works at the Clinic, as the co-ordinator.  No language problems there.  I understand Ava Clinic in Cyprus also has a native English speaker as co-ordinator.  You will have to accept Northern Cyprus is more relaxed in their communication but so far I have had no issues.  I could not go to Czech clinics as I am single and by law they do not deal with single women  and same sex couples.  I have never had a problem getting a protocol or scripts from Dogus.

I am afraid that is all I know.  I can strongly recommend contacting Agate as she has much more information and perhaps more Scottish focussed.  As you say IVI Valencia offering a discount might work out better and the flights there might be easier.  For me flights to Larnaca are with EasyJet, Monarch, Thompson  and Thomas Cook airlines  cheap and very easy.  I am not sure what they are like from Scotland.  Wherever you go it needs to be easy to travel to.  I looked initially at Barceleona, easy to fly to and a beautiful city, but they were far too expensive.  I nearly went with Serum in Athens .....Penny the co-ordinator is wonderful but in the end I plumped for Dogus.

Best Of luck sorting something out which suits your needs
TC x


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## ElsieF

Hi tincancat
Pls don't apologies for anything ! (Esp as it's not even my thread!)


That's really useful info - thanks. Esp the info on prescriptions. I to been driving me nuts trying to work out what's been going on!   


Hope all this discussion has been of help to you Edinburghjenn!


Elsie


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## Lilyofthevalley

Hi I'm really glad I found this thread because it's most helpful to hear of other experiences.  I did 3 cycles with IVI Madrid through IVF Scotland.  I actually did my scans with babybond although IVF Scotland supplied me with the drugs.  I didn't find them IVF Scotland particularly helpful either.  I had blood tests done at my gps but didn't get results till about 4 days later which wasn't great either.
Anyway I'm about to do a cycle with Serum in Athens and doing all the correspondence myself as IVF Scotland  said they cannot offer me any assistance with it. So far Serum have been great and I have all the drugs which I got in Athens.  The only thing I need to be able to get here are same day blood tests and intralipids.  I think I might have to go to Glasgow GCRM for that but would be grateful if anyone knows if there's anywhere in Edinburgh that can do these?  I hope that London isn't my only other option!

Neisey - I'm so glad that all is progressing well with your pregnancy. You must be so excited!  Turia best of luck with your cycle - I am sure that this will be your time!

Xxx


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## neisey

Hey Lily

Nice to hear from you.  Thanks very much I'm excited but still a Nervous wreck.  I can't remember 100% but I am pretty sure that I got my blood test result back the same day from Spire.  It seems so long ago so I am not sure but it might be worth asking them.  

Good luck for your new cycle hopefully 2014 will be your year xxx


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## Vanilla Spice

Re Intralipids - Healthcare at Home 0800 328 5323 - will provide and administer Intralipids in your own home - as far as I know throughout the UK - not sure about the Highlands and Islands - at a time to suit providing they receive a prescription from your clinic in advance.    You can request a morning or afternoon appointment although they've always been very accommodating and come in the mornings as I've requested - even when we've had really bad snow!!

The [email protected] Scottish team undertook training with George Ndukwe, Immunes Specialist, who was at Care in Nottingham a few years ago. George now works with Zita West in London specialising in "Immunomodulation Therapy".  George trained with Dr Alan Beer in the USA - he's one of the UK's top immune specialists and a lovely person too.

In my experience, each clinic follows different administration protocols of the intralipid.  With [email protected] following Care's protocol its saline drip followed by intralipid followed by saline drip - that way every drop of the intralipid enters your body.

When I had intralipids at GCRM Marco gave the treatment as the nurses weren't trained and it was the intralipid by itself which was much quicker to administer.  I've no idea if they'd do it as a stand alone treatment to support a clinic abroad.

On reading the forums the intralipid fluid isn't expensive - it the nurses time for administrating the fluids.  Latest [email protected] fee was £270.

As for bloods, Healthcare Now in Stafford Street Edinburgh used to take bloods but the lady moved back to Australia a few years ago.  If I hear of any place, I'll pop it onto this board.


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## Tincancat

In my experience [email protected] were terribly expensive to administer Intralipids compared to anywhere else but if you have no choice you are stuck with them in Scotland.  Agate, on her immune pages of the FF forum,  might have some suggestions on cheaper places for Intralipids in Scotland.  
TC x


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## Vanilla Spice

Agreed, we don't have a lot of choice up here.  London is a world apart.


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## Tincancat

I think I should set up an intralipid, blood and scanning clinic in Scotland at a decent price for all you ladies being over charged just because you live in beautiful Scotland!


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## Lilyofthevalley

I just googled intralipids at H&H and it's £270 to have it done at home.  Not the cheapest!
Tincancat if you could set up a reasonably priced clinic in the centre of Edinburgh or Glasgow that's open after work I really think you could make some money


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## Tincancat

That has come down considerably in cost. I hate seeing people ripped off with IVF treatment. 
TC x


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## Ljay

Hi Everyone,

I am posting for the first time. I am currently trying to decide between going for ICSI with my own eggs here in Edinburgh, (AMH depressingly low) or going with the statistics, (and reality) and going straight for egg donation in Spain.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has done the dual home/abroad clinic route.

Lisa x


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## burnsie

Hi

All of the clinics and IVF Spain along with many others are exhibiting and some speaking at the Scottish Information day we are holding on Saturday 5th April in Edinburgh.  If you would like any further information there is a thread on the Scottish Patient info day and how to book.


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## bombsh3ll

Hi Ljay,

I am also from Edinburgh and had successful DE in Spain which gave me my baby. I  dealt directly with the clinic FIV Marbella, all the Spanish clinics have English speaking staff & it was very easy to organise. 

I know there are some clinics here running partnership schemes, but as someone who has done it I would advise you to think carefully about the need for an expensive middle man which does not change the actual treatment in any way but simply creams off another grand or two from you in profit.

I just booked the one scan I needed prior to flying out as a stand alone with GCRM, which was about £100. 

Good luck with whatever you decide,

B xxx


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## Ljay

Hi Bombsh3ll,
Thank you for sharing your experience and congratulations on your little girl. Dreams do come true. It's wonderful to realise that.

It's interesting that you recommend dealing directly with the clinic abroad. Was there any reason you chose the one you did? Did you feel supported by them when you were back in Edinburgh?  We've already had some tests carried out at Spire Edinburgh, so perhaps we can use those results for the next phase in Spain. They have links with IVI Madrid, but of course if we're dealing directly we can choose anywhere. We love to hear your thoughts.

All the best,
Ljay


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## Tincancat

I echo what Bombshell says.  If I went with my local clinic who have links with a Cyprus clinic .....£2000 more than dealing direct for double donor.  Easy to sort yourself a scan in the UK for around £100 on day 9 or 10.  Then get medications using online pharmacy or Asda.  Simples
TC x


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## bombsh3ll

Hi Ljay,

Having decided on donor eggs in Spain, I made a spreadsheet of all the possible clinics with the things I was looking for such as cost, blastocyst transfer, sperm freezing, ICSI, vitrification, success rates, willingness to transfer 3, matching times, quality of communication following phone/email enquiries and ease of travel there. FIV Marbella came out tops across all these although I actually ended up having 3 day transfer instead of blast as there were only 3 by day 3.

I had a lot of bleeding early in the pregnancy and the ongoing support from the clinic was very good in providing advice about bloods, scans and medication & generally keeping my spirits up when I had lost hope. I also had a bag of estrogen patches and pessaries stolen when my house was burgled, & they were very quick in getting me a replacement prescription & liaising with the online pharmacy I was using.

They will accept test results done in the UK, generally there is a time frame of 6 months on HIV/HepB/C etc. Our blood groups were done there as they had never been done before, which was really cheap, and they did a semen analysis and froze the sperm at the same time. This was important for me as it meant I could travel back alone to save costs and also the peace of mind of knowing there was a good sample ready, however if you wanted to use fresh sperm I am sure they also work with this.

As well as not wanting to be exploited financially any more than necessary, I also did not want any UK record of having had donor treatment, which was avoided by dealing directly with the clinic in Spain.

Good luck with your decision,

B xxx


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## Ljay

Dear Bombsh3ll,

Thanks for all your info.

It sounds as though you found the perfect clinic for you. I must admit it's confusing me as to where to go, but to hear how the Marbella clinic  supported you makes them stand out. Given the spread-sheet you did, (oh! how I wish I was as logical as that!) I'd be a fool not to consider them. I want to get the ball rolling asap.

I'll let you know how we get on.

Best,
Ljay


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## Tincancat

Spain was top of my list but the decision for Cyprus came down to cost although I have to accept communication is somewhat 'relaxed' which can be infuriating on occasions.
Other good clinics abroad include Czech Republic but I could not go there as I am having treatment as a single person.
Look at flights to the places you are considering. It  helps enormously if you have a budget airline flying to where you choose.
TC x


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## ElsieF

Just in case this is useful to anyone - I found out other Medicalalternative, a private GP in Dean Village in Edinburgh, can do the blood tests we ladies need with same day results. The nurse told me that they send the bloods to London early AM and the results are phoned back mid afternoon. They can't do scans though :-(


I am guessing this is only really needed for ladies wanting to do a natural cycle abroad.


I had a friend who recently did a cycle with Ivi, and her GP did the pregnancy blood test for free. It wasn't same day, but next day, so good enough for IVI - you just have to add a day to the 2ww!!


I have had a couple of great scans done at ABC4D in Corstorphine in Edinburgh recently. They have facilities in Motherwell and Ayr too.


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## USAJenn

Hi everyone,

Just to apologise for unintentionally abandoning this thread. I kind of left the site for a few months while deciding what to do. I decided to stay with the original clinic in Prague (Gennet) and am undergoing ET (DE) in September. It would be great to hear from other Scottish ladies who are cycling abroad. There is definitely a commercial gap in Edinburgh...as mentioned earlier, private places to get scans, blood tests, etc.


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