# Advice Needed!!!



## kizzymouse

Hello all I hope someone can help me!

My BF has said she would like to help me and DH have a baby. She has 2 of her own a 5yr old and a 2yr old. 
I didn't ask her she offered after I told her we were considering the surrogacy route after a year and a bit away from treatments ( I have had 7 failed tx   )

We haven't sat down and discussed it all yet, I said let's wait until new year is over and we'll talk about it all. I want to give both her and us time to think about it - it's such a huge thing to do for someone!  

I have a few questions though, and I'd like to ask some of you experts!!  

For anyone who has gone through straight surrogacy as either surrogate or IP - how did you actually do it? Did you involve medical staff or did you do DIY at home? I'm totally unsure how it would all work doing it at home!

This one is for surrogates - if you are married or have a DP - how did you manage to have a normal sexual relationship whilst trying to get pregnant for the intended parent?  Condoms as birth control? I really don't have a clue so sorry for stupid questions!!!

When do we take the baby home? As soon as the child is born or wait until mother comes out of hospital? If we leave the baby too long with the mother won't it make it harder for her to let go?

How do we get the mid wife etc to visit us and the baby in the first few weeks after the birth? Does my friend have to tell her doctor and maternity clinic when she first gets pregnant that the baby is surrogacy?

How long does it take after the birth for us to become legal parents? (parental order)

This is all assuming we go ahead with this and it works!!

I thought it was the end of our journey but my BF has given us hope - I've known her for over 20yrs and completely love and trust her!!!  

It's amazing that she has offered to do this for us - but I want to find out as much as poss before we have our discussion about it all!!

I know this is going to affect her life, her hubby's and their children. How does she explain that to her kids? I'm pregnant but the baby is not going to live with us? It's a complete minefield and I would totally appreciate some help and advice, thanks!!

good luck to you all on your surrogacy journey


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## kizzymouse

I've been on the little wish website, it's great!

Also found a site which sells artificial insemination kits plus ovulation kits etc!  

Still I would love to hear some good advice from experienced ppl!!


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## NatGamble

Hi Kizzymouse

Best of luck on your exciting journey. 

To help on the legal side, a parental order usually takes quite a few months to come through (it would be interesting to do a straw poll on the board here, and it does vary according to location, but in my experience I would say expect at least 6 months).  You can apply as soon as you have your child's birth certificate (and don't have to wait 6 weeks to start the process) but the delay comes from just getting things through the courts and the time it takes for your parental order reporter to meet you and your surrogate and to prepare her report.  There are some things you can do to help make life easier in the interim, which depend on your particular circumstances.

If you're information-gathering at the moment, you might find it helpful to read our surrogacy law pages (at www.gambleandghevaert.com/page/surogacy/22/), which will give you a guide to all the legal stuff you will need to know, as well as  the parental order application forms etc.

Best of luck

Natalie
[email protected]mbleandghevaert.com


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## kizzymouse

Thanks Natalie  

Where do you apply to for the parental order? I live in scotland.


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## Jo

Hi
We done straight surrogacy with our SIL .

We done everything at home with SI, it was odd to start with but it got easier as the times went on , and to be honest we use to smile and laugh about it in the end 

The baby leaves hospital with you and the surrogate , and its all sorted out before you leave the hospital about midwives, they come to see you and someone will visit your surrogate 

As for the court bits and parental order, we sent ours in on 10th May and everything was signed and sealed on 19th August  

I have to say our experience of everything was amazing, from the very start to the end on beyond , it was an amazing journey, it really was 

Good Luck, and if you need to ask anything, please do not hesitate to ask or IM me.

Love Jo
x x x


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## kizzymouse

Thanks JO

I guess it will be weird to start with - she still could change her mind, and that's fine. I want her to be 100% happy with it all.

The thought of making my DP a dad is spurring me on as well as the thought of having our own family intertwined with my BF's!!  

I have loads of questions!!
Have been reading a lot about it.
SO when BF does get pregnant (hopefully) will I go to first appt with her to arrange with hospital, midwives etc?


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## Jo

I have to say I went to every appointment and scan, midwife appointment with SIL , and they sort things out, and the hospital sort out bits as well.

You will need to have a chat with the hospital as they don't come across it very much and they need to get things in to place, but just shout when you get there 

Good Luck  

Love Jo
x x x


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## Specialkat

Hi Kizzy

We are in a very similar position in that my BF of 10 years + is offering to be our surrogate.  We are early stages too but looking at potentially beginning in April/May time.

Happy reading - there's loads of it!!!

Kerrie
xxx


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## kizzymouse

So could BF not have sex with her husband if they used a condom? I would hate to think I would ruin their sex life lol
Not sure which birth control method they are using, she was using the coil but it was making her sore and bleed.

Kerrie - good luck!!  I hope our dreams come true even though we have a long journey ahead!!


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## Grumpygirl

Hi Kizzymouse,
What an amazing friend you have. We're parents due to meeting our very own amazing friend through Surrogacy UK, it has been unbelievable to be parents and we're so happy. Although it can be a tough road at times our little one is so worth it, and I have to say once we started surrogacy things were much easier for us than before when we were trying to get me pregnant (no hope I think!). I think you sound like you have a really strong friendship before you start and this will really stand you in good stead as you're already considering your friend's needs/wishes/thoughts.

As for her own sex life, I think most Surrogacy organisations recommend that your surrogate abstains entirely for the time you're trying to concieve. There have been cases of surrogates becoming pregnant with their own babies, however hard they try not to! If you're lucky this may only mean a month or two, if unlucky maybe lots more, but then you'll probably have a break after a few months for a month or so as it can become stressful and your friend may be climbing the walls!

There are a few surrogacy groups you could join, I would recommend taking your time and seeing how they feel to you. Look at their websites and ask yourself if they feel professional, do they offer a depth of experience ? There is of course, no need to join any organisation, but there is a wealth of information out there and let's face it, in the everyday population surrogacy isn't the norm. I felt at a few times during the process I was able to talk about friends I'd made and situations I'd heard of to others who weren't familiar with it all, and it felt more natural to me. Plus, having the support of others both before and after the birth was brilliant. Everyone approaches things differently but we're really glad to have joined SUK.

Happy deciding, and loads of luck! I'm hoping for good news in the new year from you... 

Kerrie- loads of luck to you too!

Giggly
xx


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## firebolt1982

Hi, I am a Host surrogate currently trying to have a baby for my friends. I will try to answer our questions as best I can.

*For anyone who has gone through straight surrogacy as either surrogate or IP - how did you actually do it? Did you involve medical staff or did you do DIY at home?* I think most straight surrogates just do DIY at home. Going through a clinic would be quite costly and isn't really required. I would recommend you have your friend take a few basic tests, though, like HIV etc. You can pay for this to be done privately. I know you must trust her completely but she may have something she doesn't even know about and it would just make good sense to be tested. In return, you should have your partner tested so that he doesn't infect your friend with anything.

*This one is for surrogates - if you are married or have a DP - how did you manage to have a normal sexual relationship whilst trying to get pregnant for the intended parent? Condoms as birth control?* I am doing Host surrogacy so it's quite easy to time things. Between cycles we just use condoms, but I also avoid having sex during ovulation because I really don't want any mistakes (I don't want any more kids of my own!) During treatment, the clinic put me on the birth control pill but we continue to use condoms as well. I then abstain once we reach down-regulation because I don't want anything to interfere with the treatment. It has only meant abstaining for a month at most, which is nothing really and my lovely dh can manage!! For straight surrogacy, it's tricky ground because you don't want any mistakes to happen! You have to come to an agreement with your friend that you are all comfortable with. If she's got kids of her own, I expect she's used to dry spells anyway!!!

*When do we take the baby home? As soon as the child is born or wait until mother comes out of hospital? If we leave the baby too long with the mother won't it make it harder for her to let go?* Really the baby should be handed straight to you when it is born. It is best if the baby is treated as yours from the moment it is born. Most hospitals are quite accomodating in surrogacy arrangements. It is best to talk to the hospital before the birth to discuss what they can do to help. You could also consider homebirth (which is what we hope to do).

*How do we get the mid wife etc to visit us and the baby in the first few weeks after the birth? Does my friend have to tell her doctor and maternity clinic when she first gets pregnant that the baby is surrogacy?* You will need to contact your local midwifery service to let them know you will be having a baby via surrogacy. They can then put the correct support in place. You and your surrogate should both let your GPs know that you are having a baby via surrogacy once you have a confirmed pregnancy.

*How long does it take after the birth for us to become legal parents? (parental order)* From what I've seen, it can takes months. It depends on how experienced the people dealing with your case are and how straight-forward it all is. But you should, of course, take the baby home with you and treat it as your own right from the start. The Parental Order will go through eventually and you will get a new birth certificate with your name on it.

*I know this is going to affect her life, her hubby's and their children. How does she explain that to her kids? I'm pregnant but the baby is not going to live with us?* My kids know about the surrogacy. I have told them that my friend's tummy is broken and that I am going to try and grow a baby for them in my tummy. Then when it is born it will go to live with our friends, but we will see the baby lots and they will be friends with the baby. My kids have been very involved from the start and I've just always been very open and honest with them about what's happening.

I hope that helps!!

Good luck to you all x

Mandy xxx


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## kizzymouse

Wonderful advice girls thank you so much! And merry xmas xxxx


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## CarolynB

Hi Kizzy

What a wonderful friend you have.

You have already got some great advice from the lovely ladies but just a few more comments based on my journey............

- We had couselling before we started.  It was a requirement for us due to using a clinic for IVF.  I thought that it would be a waste of time as we were lucky enough to have my sister as our surro angel.  But it did ensure that we aired issues up front.  We had 1 session with just me and my dh.  Essentially our long and sorry tale of failed tmt.  1 session for my sister and her dh.  Where they covered the impact on her family and why they wanted to help us.  And then 1 session with all 4 of us.  It was so worthwhile.  We used to work through any open issues and it really helped - what tests will we/will we not have? what if the tests show there might be a problem?? etc etc.  Worth considering may be. We went to HFEA to find a qualified consellor and then they pointed us at BICA (British Infertlity Counsellors) so we went to see someone who at least had some idea about infertility/surrogacy

- Sam was born 29th June.  We started the process 6 weeks later as that was what we were told we could kick off.  We got our Parental Order on 16th December. (Best Xmas pressie ever!!!!) .  Most of time spent chasing Parental Order reporter, chasing GP, chasing clinic, chasing Court.  Admin but not tricky

- My sister told her 8 year old daughter that I had a broken tummy and she was helping 'cook' our baby otherwise they would not have a cousin.  She had no issue with it at all.  Other than wanting to come to London to check that the nursery was good enough before Sam was born and came to London  
They take it as less of an issue than some adults.  Very accepting./  Told everyone at school.  My sisters 3-4 year old son did not take much notice.  May be a male thing.  Ha ha.  Or age

- Hospital was not straight forward at first for the birth and accomodating me.  As Jo says, it is quite rare and so sometimes they are just not sure how to handle.  In the end, my sister and I set up a meeting near the end of the pregnancy with key people at the hospital.  Once they heard our story then everything changed. They went out of there way to help.  We ended up being in hospital almost a week so there is no way that I would have wanted to not be treated as the 'Mum' for that period and it would have been even harder on my dear sister.  I had a bed every night bar 1.  They allowed two people in for my sisters emergency c section.  Her dh and me.  They set aside a room for me and my dh to get to know our son right after the op.  They passed Sam to me.  They were amazing.  I lost count of how many people came to our room to hear the story and talk to the 'surro sisters'.  Everything is sort out able if you just explain up front would be my advice 

- We joined no group as we were sisters and did not feel the need.  I drew support from here when needed and Natalie Gamble was fab for any/all legal issues

It is an intense and amazing journey.  I am sure that it could draw you and your friend closer together - still.  People normally cry when they hear our story.  We (including my dh) have told so many people to help take away the secrecey/lack of understanding.  Not everyone knows quite what/how to say/react but again that is because people do not come across it every day.  Most have found it amazing/incredible.  Friends of ours sent flowers/letters to my sister after Sam arrived who have never even met her     

Wishing you and your dear friend lots and lots of luck.  Most days I simply cannot believe that we got the miracle ending.  My sister altered my life and my dh's life forever.  It is amazing to have the fairytale ending but your friends offer could help you do it.

It is stressful but try to focus on the fact that your friend is giving you the best gift in the world    

Carolyn xxxx

PS - happy to help although not on here as much as I used to be as time goes so fast and trying to enjoy every dam second!!!


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## kizzymouse

thanks for replies  
we are looking into host surrogacy first - I am phoning hosp on monday to make an appt. Luckily my old hosp deals with host surrogacy!!      

I am speaking with my BF on tuesday about it but she is much happier to not be biologically related to the baby.
We are happy to go this direction too as I have always had good embryos, I think its my womb thats the problem!!
I was considering asking the clinic about natural ivf though as the most eggs I've got with drugs is 5 - wot do u all think?


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## kizzymouse

I have an appointment at Glasgow Royal on 19th of Jan with Prof Nelson to discuss host surrogacy!

I am excited but nervous!

BF and I discussed it all today and we both agreed we both are happy to do host but not straight.
Please pray for us girls!!


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## nostalgicsam

excellent news, very much luck with it all, let us know how your appt goes


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## Jo

Great news  keep us updated on how it goes 
Love Jo
x x x


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## kizzymouse

The most I had was between 5-7 eggs not embies - had 3 embies twice only 2 put back and only 1 egg once and one embie put back - I want my friend to only have one put back, dont wanna risk multiples. All my embies were grade 1's that were put back  
I really want to do natural - as you say less stress and it's more to do with mother nature!

I will know more after appt! 
Hoping I dont have to do ivf again though lol


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## kizzymouse

Not good news girls from me.
Dr says if she put our host surrogacy idea to the ethical commitee they would say NO - as there is nothing pyhsically wrong with me which is stopping me having children    

So she wouldn't advise putting it to them.
She seems to think I could have another cycle - good embryos, good sperm, good fertilisation - she said I was nearly there last time - said they could give me drugs for womb lining.

I dunno wot to do now - can do donor cycle at other clinics in glasgow but there is a yr waiting list.
DH isn't happy about doing it again, said he doesnt think it will work and we'll waste 3,000. 
I can't forget about it though and feel I shud have one last go.

I can start right away, our tests we had done last time havent expired.
Now I gotta decide wot to do, i cried all the way home          and it's a 2 hr journey    

Sorry i dont have better news. 

hope you are all well


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## Val123

Aww so sorry Kizzy that you didn't get the response you were hoping for (((hugs))).  Have you thought about straight surrogacy - that way you don't need to involve clinics at all.

Poor you - it must be hard having to go back to the drawing board when you thought you knew what you were going to be doing - bloody ethics committees!!!!  It's really difficult having to accept a third party taking control of what YOU do with YOUR life.  Straight surrogacy might be the way to go - maybe you could raise it with your BF.

Good luck with whatever you decide to you hun

Val x


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## kizzymouse

Thanks girls 
My BF doesnt want any biological link to a future child - she wanted to just carry one for us - it's so unfair - we both want to do it!!!!!! Grrr!!

Wot do I have to do rip my womb out? then i qualify? LOL

I think we are gonna do one last cycle then put it to bed, DH isnt happy to do donor cycles abroad or anything like that. He isnt really happy to do one more ivf - thinks I will keep going and not draw a line under it - but I wont, yes I'll be upset if it fails again, doctor gave us a 3-5% chance - its very low but could happen?

I dunno - bit confused, upset and angry just now!!!


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## firebolt1982

If you can afford to, I would suggest you try doing surrogacy with a different clinic. There are lots of clinics to choose from, but it may mean a little more travelling.

My IM doesn't have a womb, but I know of other IM's through COTS who have unexplained infertility and have been able to do surrogacy in the UK. It might be worth speaking to a few clinics to see if any would be supportive.

Good luck, whatever you decide x

Mandy xxx


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## kizzymouse

different clinic = same ethics commitee? I would say so?  

I cant travel too far away, our clinic is already 2hrs away as it is. We are almost 100% decided to give it another try - I nearly had a bfp last time.

Gosh it's so hard!    

Thanks for your replies xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## firebolt1982

Each ethics committee is unique to that clinic, so no a different clinic wouldn't mean the same committee! At our clinic, the committee is made up of a consultant, a senior sister, a councellor and a social worker. We met them all individually and then they came together to make a decision. But it works differently at different clinics.

Mandy xxx


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## Angie2312

The clinic i am using with my intended parents didn't even have an ethics commitee, but we are in London xx


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## missmarple

Kizzy, if you look at the COTS website you will see a list of IVF clinics that do surrogacy.  I honestly don't think any other clinic would turn you down with a 3-5% chance of conception.  Maybe the Ethics Committee just didn't want the 'hassle' of a surrogacy cycle? Anyhow don't let them make you give up! x


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## nostalgicsam

Kizzy, each clinic has it's own ethics committee, I'd def be looking for another clinic as what they said is well out of order and as has been said they probbaly don't want the hassle or just your money for more IVF  

To find a clinic near you go to the HFEA website and insert your postcode in the find a fertility clinic section, tick ivf and tick egg donation and it will come up with the local clinics that handle embryo donation.

http://www.hfea.gov.uk/

It's worth rememebring that clinics actually see surrogacy as embryo donation (you are treated as donors when doing surrogacy as the clinics hold a licence for handling donor embryos, surrogacy isn't regulated by the HFEA but embryo donation is).

It's also worth getting your gp on board and a good fertility consultant will judge your case for surrogacy on it's own merit and take into account your 'history'.

If you changed your mind about donor eggs then I'd also advise looking at this in somewhere like cezch republic whose waiting lists are very small compared to here in the uk.

I guess you have to decide if going through ivf again or trying surrogacy with your BF where is your money best spent? Your surro could have embies created using a donor or you will have to go through ivf to get them for you BF to be surro, sorry I wasn't sure if you have any frosties atm, maybe you could even go through ivf for you and if bfn use any remaining frosties with your BF as surro?

Whatever you do don't be put off or upset by your clinic ! There are other clinics and other routes, I wish you well in what you decide and stay strong, it's a long road but miracles can and do happen


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## kizzymouse

thanks for your replies - have weighed up costs and everything and decided would rather stick with clinic we know - there was never any guarantee my embies would stick in BF's womb either - so going to try again with mine phew! I'm scared, but I will know if it doesnt work then it is the end of the road.

One private try is all we are doing - we aren't rich and don't want to waste all our money chasing a dream - will have to give up this time if bfn.

I need lots of positive thoughts girls!!       

Downregging begins 13/2/10


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## kizzymouse

Update from me - I did our private cycle with my own eggs and DH's sperm and we had the best cycle ever - 3 grade 1 embies transferred - but it was BFN   

Decided I wasn't going to give up and we decided on donor treatment as obv something wrong with our own embies   

I've never had a problem with donor treatment - I believe love and care are more important than genetics.

So I went to CZ Republic for donor embryos - had three grade A assisted hatching 5 day old blasts transferred on the 15th June.

I tested early on the 23rd June and got my first ever proper BFP.
Blood test confirmed it on 24th June.

We are overjoyed but a bit nervous. Praying everything goes just fine.

I'm so glad I didn't give up - we got there in the end - it's been a long road.
I guess I just wanted to let you all know that miracles CAN and DO happen!   


Thanks for all the help I received re surrogacy a few months ago - appreciate it   

Good luck to everyone on their surrogacy journey


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## leo

Fantastic news sooo pleased for you good luck with your next bloods and let us know how they go. Fingers crossed for you and Hubby xxx


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## nostalgicsam

oh Kizzy, wonderful news gr8 to hear from you, glad you tried cz then 
x


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## ♀Craig♀

Best of luck from myself. hope all goes amazing for you 
xx


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