# anyone got better response to stims 2nd time round?



## sue93 (Jun 14, 2006)

hi there - am having a bit of a crisis of confidence about going ahead with 2nd ivf in a month's time. This is mainly sparked by a letter from my consultant summing up our follow-up session last week.

Basically his concern is that I won't get any embryos to put back as thinks my poor response last time must be due to low ovarian reserve (despite the very lucky BFP). I had 4 follicles last time, and only 2 eggs out, 1 fertilised and went back. I was on the maximum dose (450 I think) of puregon and he's going to do the same this time but add menopur to the mix. I don't blame him at all for being realistic - I've always really appreciated his (sometimes brutal!) honesty.

But I guess I'm wondering if anyone around my age has gone on to get a better response on a second go, or am I opening myself up to more heartache here??

thanks all of you

Sue
xx


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## Lorri (Apr 17, 2005)

Sue,
I don't think its that easy to tell, as each cycle is different, but I was told I would probably not respond any different on subsequent cycle after my 2nd BFN.  
1st cycle I got 7 eggs (450 puregon), 
2nd I only got 2 (ovulated early - 600 puregon, then 600 merionel), but I did have about 7 follies prior to EC. 
3rd cycle I got 9 eggs (600 puregon then 600 merionel).

Puregon is LH only, Merionel is LF+FSH, which I understand older women do better on.  

Anyway, its not quantity, its quality, as it only takes 1 good one, not 20 crap ones. Do you know what your eggs were like last time ? Were they good quality ? 

Good luck


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## sue93 (Jun 14, 2006)

thanks Lorri - I'm not sure if my eggs were good quality or not to be honest... The one that fertilised made a grade 3 embryo (with 4 being the best) so does that mean the egg was decent quality? The other one didn't fertilise.

Just wondering if I should expect things to have got worse a few months later.

Sue
xx


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## Lara200 (Aug 26, 2006)

Hell Sue.

I understand fully what you are going through.  I have just had my first failed IVF and am going through the further tests before trying again.  I am 44 and in the first cycle got 6 eggs of which 4 fertilised.  I saw my con yesterday and while everyone's case is different, he told me that next time he would put me on a higher dose of menopur (600) to try and stimulate me to produce more eggs.  He seemed reasonably confident it was possible.  Last time only one of my ovaries produced good sized follicles but my con said that next time it could be completely different.  Although I don't have anything positive to report from what I've been told and what I have read of other's experiences on this site, cycles can vary quite a lot.  Are there any other tests they can do to check ovarian reserve before you start?  I have no idea?  Anyway good luck and whatever you decide will be the right thing.   

all the best

Lara


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## sugary (Feb 17, 2006)

Hi Girls 
Nothing to add other than know how you all feel, I am 38 and had a failed ICSI in july that in itself was awful but I had an FSH test which gave me a result of 14 was absolutely gutted. I got 6 eggs on icsi and only 4 fertilised. Am feeling really depressed at the moment and just too scared to try again or retest for FSH as don't know how i'd take the results. wishing you all well.....
take care
xxxx.


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## LondonJax (Jan 30, 2006)

I was on 450 Puregon first time round for IVF (April this year).  We didn't even get any eggs at EC although 3 follicles were ripe!  My body sent out all the right hormones to the blood so the consultants thought there were eggs available but it wasn't to be. 

This time round I had 450 of Menopur, I stimmed for an extra 3 days as my consultant wanted to get the maximum chance.  Again I only had 3 follicles, but all three contained eggs and all three eggs fertilised.

I had the three embryos (1 eight cell, 1 seven cell and a four cell) transferred on day 3 and got a   on 11 August.

We go for our 8 week scan tomorrow where we need to see the heartbeat has started.  The hospital think they saw the heartbeat at 6 weeks but couldn't be sure as this little devil decided to play camera shy so it was so difficult to see!

So each cycle can be so different from the last.

HTH

Good luck!

Jackie x


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## sue93 (Jun 14, 2006)

hi all of you - lara, sugary, jackie (enormous congrats on the BFP - you give us all hope! - let us know how the scan goes - very exciting!!)

I think I'll give my consultant his head this time round - he did me proud last time and part of me suspects the reason I got the BFP was because was fairly laidback about the whole process -  not like me normally! -  (saw it as something I had to try, but had absolutely no hope of it working). Obviously not the case this time round tho... 

He's definitely keen on sticking with the puregon - says its more potent - but adding menpor in at some point. Haven't grilled him too much on that. Might ask him about why he thinks 450 is top whack for puregon tho as I'm sure I've read on here about some women having doses of 600. So much for giving him his head...

think I'll feel better when it's underway, should be about 5 weeks assuming the inevitable AF appears like clockwork (somehow I never completely give up hope of it happening naturally - fool to myself really as it inevitably leads to disapointment...)

thanks again all of you

Sue
xx


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## druzy (Jan 25, 2006)

Hi Sue

I had an appointment with the Lister yesterday, I've warbled on about it on the goldies thread as we did talk about PGS and blastocysts which I know you were wondering about at some time and so you may like to read it.

It probably is a good idea to give your consultant his head if you decide to stay where you are.

Me & DH liked Dr Marie Wren at the Lister she was very clear and positive about what she would do, PGS and Blastocysts being high on her list but the clinic is very busy and after like you having been in small place I am rather concerned about that aspect.  However, given my experience and the ectopic at my current clinic I do think it's time for a change for me and so am going to ship my frosties up to the Lister to see if they can go to blastocyst - which is by no means in the bag! - if not, may have one more, even more expensive attempt with my own bits & bobs.  Have cancelled my appointment in Barcelona until new year now as it's all a bit much.

By the way, my understanding is that different consultants have different ideas about what max dose is.  For example my existing consultant thinks 300 is max for Puregon as he thinks that the body is saturated at that point and so there is no point giving more.  Yours obviously thinks 450.  Mine joked that they make special bottles for the Hammersmith where they go up to 600 - the more you look into this lark the more you realise that there are lots of different opinions, as with everything.  Doesn't make it easier to make decisions though and as everyone always says go with your gut instinct - whatever that means!!

My Af always appears like clockwork too and I live in Bob Hope as the two ronnies would say - despite the laparosopy and the ectopic removal this month AF was STILL regular - makes me laugh in a way, it's like my body sticks two fingers up to everything and says " you can do what you like, pump me full of hormones, put embryos in me, drill holes in my stomach and put cameras in and cut bits out but I'm going to exactly what I have always been doing for the last 25 years!!"

best wishes, good luck for next month

Druzyx


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## sue93 (Jun 14, 2006)

hi there Druzy - nice to hear from you. Don't blame you at all given your recent experience at the last clinic - i would definitely want to change in your circumstances. Keeping everything crossed for you - i think you deserve a break.

For me it just seemed right to stay put - not least of all because it took some persuading to get DP to go for it again after the trauma of the last time and he REALLY likes the setup at the Esperance - he's very shy, but entertainingly seems to feel completely at home there. In the end that was what swung my decision. Odd the things that make your mind up for you eh?

We seem to be on the same timescale - I'm already planning my next and last cycle after this one - if i fail to get anything like decent amounts of eggs this time I'll take the next one to the lister as a last ditch attempt. Then I think for me it really is time to give up. I read something on the 'giving up' board which rang so true - about being exhausted with keeping the balls in the air and wanting to get on and enjoy life. I'm even secretly planning a baby whippet to annoy the current old lady lurcher with... (true child substitutes til the end!) Haven't told DP that or he'll be demanding more ivf cycles...

I'm just finding it easier to try to look at the positives in my life rather than tormenting myself with how I will cope without kids (not helped by 2 exes - one recent and still fairly painful - turning up in my life on the same day to tell me they were becoming fathers...). 

Not exactly positive thinking, but seems to be oddly helpful at the mo.

Really keeping everything crossed for you druzy - you've had such a rubbish time, and I have a good feeling for you this time round. stay in touch.

Sue
xx


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