# Day 5 embryos arrested



## sasra (Apr 27, 2012)

Hi
I'm in a lot of shock at the moment, out of 7 mature we had 4 fertilise using imsi as previous 3 cycles we always done just ivf and always bfn, so incase of any underlying issues we did imsi, anyway day 3 still had 4 going strong, so we were booked in for a day 5 transfer, the morning of the transfer we had call to say they had all had begun to die! We always have had day 3 transfer in the past, I trusted this clinic, I'm angry now, does this happen a lot? Has anyone had this happen to them?


----------



## sasra (Apr 27, 2012)

Oh and we even paid for Eeva to keep an eye on the little ones.


----------



## Josie1 (Sep 30, 2013)

Hi just wanted to share my experience with you. We also had 4 embryos on day 3 and when we went for transfer only 1 had made it. The embryologist said the other 3 arrested. 

I was gutted as no frosties and this is our last NHS attempt, she told us that when they arrest it's most likely they wouldn't make a pregnancy. 

I can't imagine how gutting this is for you right now, but maybe not as gutting as having a transfer that most likely was going to be a disappointment. 

If I had been in your situation I would be devastated especially having to pay for it but maybe in time you will feel a wee bit better. Big hugs   xx


----------



## Josie1 (Sep 30, 2013)

The clinic told us that this happens a lot, so you are not alone. They said embryos arrest between day 3 and 5 and this is usually a sign that something wasn't correct chromosomely. 

If this doesn't work for us this time we would still prefer going to day 5 even if the chances are a lot higher you do not get a transfer. 

I can't bare the heartache of multiple failed transfers x


----------



## mierran (Apr 24, 2009)

Hi,
so sorry you have had this result. However it may well explain your negatives so far and not be to do with the clinic, but related to a sperm quality issue. ( up to day 3 egg quality, then sperm take over ). Did you have bloods done on previos cycles,  or did you just do a hpt? If you did bloods was there any sign of implantation,  or was your hcg under 2?

The risk with blastocyst transfer is that you do get nothing to transfer. However, in the lab now things are so advanced that if they were going to make it in you they would make it in the lab.

what sperm tests have you had done? I would advise, if not already done, you 

1 do a sperm dna fragmentation test/ fish 

2 get both you and dh karyotyped

3 look at angel bumps sperm improving protocol ( do a search for it in search area tho is a sticky somewhere )

4 do the serum in athens test for hidden c on menstrual blood. If you are pos dh will be too and it can affect sperm quality

You can get these all done in uk, but you may be cheaper looking at serum in athens

so big hugs, but I would be looking at more testing before going again.


----------



## Josie1 (Sep 30, 2013)

I agree with Mierran, if you have had negatives before it would explain them more.

That's the way I feel anyway, I kept thinking on my 3 negative transfers that there was something wrong with me and trying to find reasons they were not implanting, when infact there is nothing wrong with me, it's most likely been the embryo quality and they have arrested. 

A lot of people have told me ivf is a numbers game and it's so true, out of my 10 embryos I had collected only 1 was suitable in the end. That's a very high percentage of them that are not viable. 

I wouldn't blame your clinic (although I would prob do the same at this stage as you are angry) they only wanted the best success rate for you and unfortunately sometimes it means you don't get a transfer. 

I would rather no transfer than a transfer where the embryos were going to arrest. 

I totally get you must feel like you've spent all that money for nothing though x


----------



## sasra (Apr 27, 2012)

Thank you josie1 and mierran, I've always been told it was me with problem that I had poor eggs, I'm too old (41 this week) my lining isn't great.
In the past I've never made it to test date,  we were never given blood test just hpt, but we have only recently found out I have a dodgy cervix and my consultant is not sure if my previous embryos had been put back in the wrong place, as no one had never noticed it before.

I just feel if they had gone back on day 3 maybe they stood more of a chance, wishful thinking I feel, maybe it is a sperm issue and we focused to much on me and overlooked DP.

I think we need to go back to the drawing board, thank you for replies I'll have a look. 

Bfp wishes to you for next week xx


----------



## warriorwoman (Jan 6, 2014)

Sasra, I'm so sorry this has happened to you.

The same thing has happened to me over three IVF cycles - plenty of eggs, multiple beautiful Day 3 embryos, nothing to transfer on Day 5.

Previously we had always assumed I was the problem: I'm 41 and have an auto-immune condition (along with fibroids, and only one patent tube because of a post-surgical adhesion. Lucky me!) We, too, had just assumed it was a numbers game, and multiple IVF cycles were part of that experience.

DH had always had excellent sperm tests, but after our third failure we both had enhanced tests including immunes and DNA fragmentation. To my great surprise all my tests came back good to normal, but DH had 39% DNA fragmentation.

We are therefore going to do IMSI for our next round of treatment (hopefully Jan/Feb). 

We have also been told of a few other things we can do to improve our chances. 
DH is going to have a round of antibiotics (prescribed by Jonathan Ramsay, but TBH you could get them from your GP) then daily Proxeed supplements, and weekly acupuncture. 

I'm on a high protein diet (1g of protein for each kilogram of body weight), and 2x300mg of Co-Enzyme Q10 supplements daily plus a multivitamin, vitamin D, and Spatone iron. Recent research has shown both high protein diets and Co-Enzyme Q10 can increase the number of blastocysts (frankly I'd settle for just one - despite twenty eight eggs and twelve embryos we have never managed it yet). 

I'm still trying to make up my mind about acupuncture, I did feel it did me some good physically and my lining was always excellent by transfer, but boy did I hate every session!

I don't know what will happen if IMSI doesn't work for us, but I wanted you to know I feel your sorrow, and that there are things you can do. Neither of us are at the end of the road just yet


----------



## Cay23 (Jan 12, 2011)

Not much more to add except that I agree with Mierran, embryos arresting at day 3 would indicate a sperm issue. I would definitely be looking at 

- having a sperm DNA fragmentation test and 
- getting your DH on Proxeed sachets - you mix them with water - (available from Amazon) as soon as possible, as it can take 2-3 months for sperm to be made.

My consultant also recommended CoEnzyme Q10 tablets daily to improve sperm quality.

Good luck hun xx


----------



## sasra (Apr 27, 2012)

Thank you ladies for your replies, I just had my follow up and it is definitely embryo quality, we have been told it's the end of the road for us, ( which we kind of guessed) so we are going to take a lot of time out to get our heads round that we will never have our own biological child, and maybe look at donor or maybe adoption in the future.

All the best for your journeys, and to your bundles of joy at the end!!!xx


----------



## Cay23 (Jan 12, 2011)

Sorry to read that you've had such a negative follow up. Embryo quality does not mean the end of the line there's lots you can do. In 7 cycles I've had grade d embryos (lowest quality) and grade aa (top quality) ones!

You can do lots to improve sperm and egg quality. What it comes down to is if you want to accept that it's the end of the line or if you want to investigate the options and carry on striving towards your dream.

xx


----------



## sasra (Apr 27, 2012)

Aww cay23 I would love to carry on I just feel after two clinics ( one of them was the same clinic you used to be at, I'm not a stalker lol,but used to read that particular thread when I first started out on this road) have  now told me I have no hope maybe it's time to accept the truth, I have tried accupuncture, high protein diets, expensive vitamins , steroids, high folic acid, 3xscratch, I just think trying to convince the other half to keep going would take some doing, as we just feel our lives have been on hold for so many years.  I think maybe give it a while and see how we both feel.
Xx


----------



## hanjobee (Aug 25, 2014)

Hi there I am wondering if I can ask a few questions on here I just had a call from ARGC to say that all four of my blastocysts from this our 3rd cycle were chromosomal abnormal . No surprise as I'm 40. Where to now ? I am considering serum next te over Argc as we don't have an immune problem and may need to do multiple more cycles to get some normals. Does anyone know if they do a 3for 1 deal? And if they do PGS testing ?


----------



## Cay23 (Jan 12, 2011)

Hi hanjobee,

I'm sorry you've had to receive that call. That happened to us on our recent cycle - all our embryos were abnormal. It's devastating. As we've never had a bfp we're wondering if we've ever had normal embryos and that's why I'm considering going down the DE route if we carry on. We plan to discuss it at our follow up after Christmas. 

I know Serum are very tailored in their approach but I've heard they're reluctant to do PGS unless you have a specifically diagnosed genetic condition that could be passed on.

xx


----------

