# Reality Setting In, making That Final Decision!!!



## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Dear Friends
What other place can i go but come on here and share this with my friends. I have been debating whether to say what i feel? Then i thought this is where i am at and i wanted to share it and get it 'off my chest', so to speak.
The last few months have been hard. I opened up a can of worms due to alot of friends getting pregnant and so forth. I then realised that deep down i hadn't given up and wanted to pursue my little bit of hope. Secretely each month i was 'hoping' that we would be one of those little miracles. But hey that wasn't to be and although it has hit me hard, i am having to face that reality. So off i go to London to find that 'Miracle' hospital that is going to give me new hope and hopefully future developments on the IVF front. Yep they could offer one new option, that i thought would bring me closer to that big dream.
Infact it has made me so flipping miserable that low and really messed  me up. So instead taking that chance i have actually run away from it. Looking at what IVF can do and the emotional road that goes with it. I went away to Vietnam hoping that i would come back to a decision that would put me on the right track. But still i felt like crap when i got back and i have been asking myself why don't I just jump at this opportunity??
Well i have been struggling with the reality of it all. And that is what hurts the acceptance of knowing that if i didn't get pregnant over the last how many years. How can it happen now? I am older and the chances are so much slimmer. I then have to look at my record of IVF/ICSI and be real about the fact that i never got a sniff of pregnancy. I am hanging onto the hope trying one more treatment, but knowing also deep in my heart that i will be banging my head against the wall. So maybe i am moving alittle forward because i can see the reality, but i still have that niggle of hope. I struggle with one thought and that is if i try harder i will get there in the end. But i know this is nature and its not up to me? I struggle with my emotions and that sense of 'Giving UP' because thats not part of my nature and i cannot let that bit go. I read somewhere on another board that if you are not part of that risk of having IVF, then you may lose that chance of ever winning. That really made me think if i don't throw caution to the wind now, then maybe i will lose that chance? As far as any other options are concerned we have thought endlessly through about each of these and they are not for us..
So where does that leave me (us) now? Having one last go or being realistic? I want so desperately to look at the latter and coming to terms with the Final Decision of letting go and accepting my childless status. That hurts because it comes with a whole load of baggage, that i feel so sad about missing out on in my life.
Its just that final push to let go and i am finding that so hard to do. I know deep in my heart the answer but its not very nice and i just want to always believe in our little bit of hope. But it looks as if that is not to be and i haven't quite go there.
I struggle with the thought that maybe when i have zil chance, which will probably be in three years time. These feelings will rise to the surface and rear its ugly head. Then i will go into depression because i won't beable to do anything about it? Infact that is my biggest fear over all. Hey thats good by writing this i am actually pin pointing my real fears.. 
Then i look at my DH, what have i done to our relationship? All our married life and before that has been dominated by a baby. He has been second best and i cannot move him to the front of the queue, because of my desire to have this child. He has moved heaven and earth to make this happen and still i am not totally happy. I felt sad because he let out his feelings to my closest friend and he says that he cannot take anymore. All he wants is his wife and to be part of an equal relationship. I have just been so carried away with my emotions and this anger that i have had for the last three months and over the years. Maybe by letting go i know that we could find this happiness, instead of me holding onto a dream that will not happen? I suppose its about the grieving process. As my hubby said to me i am at that stage where i feel my cup is half empty. This was never my personality and i can see the truth in this statement, but IF has brought out a real ugly side in me at times. Will i grow old feeling bitter, because i felt short changed? I just want to be that person who finally accepts and be happy that i am alive at all..
I know tomorrow i could go for another treatment, but for what? so i desperately want to make that move forward, but i cannot let go. The future is scarey and my dreams were about having children and thats what christmas and life was all about. I am aware that i have a good life, but it is so clouded at times, by all of this and it just makes me want to claim back some happines..
I am just finding it hard to let go fully....but i know the reality of our situation is so high and the odds are so stacked against us. I also know that time is running out and if i do anything about it, it has to be done soon. And i also have set a time limit that by May, i want to moving in a direction that is moving forward, if we do not go for one last treatment. I know that making that final decision is really on my set of cards, its just laying them down and taking what they dish out...
I have written this because i feel ok at the moment and i needed to get this off my chest, whilst i am now beginning to get my control back....
Thanks for listening...
lots of love astridxx


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Astrid Huni,

I am replying to this - but want to do it on a word doc first so I don't get to the end and "lose" it ...... I'll be back ....

BIG HUGS
Gill xx


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Astrid doll,

Firstly, I’m glad you DID decide to “get this off your chest”.  You give so much on here and I’m only glad to be a small part of being able to give something back to you …

Well….. where do I start?

There were so many issues in your post that struck a chord with me but mainly, I am getting a strong feeling that, yes, you are just about to “let go” and you are so struggling (understandably) with these impossible feelings and decisions but what was jumping out at me was that you are struggling with the thought of facing these feelings next May, but really, you are having them just now anyway?  I don’t know if I’m making sense here …. What I’m trying to say is I get a strong feeling you’re not quite ready to completely let go, and you are thinking that now you are nearly ready to do that and I get the feeling you are, in a kind of a way “finding your own way of dealing with them” ….. albeit slowly (again, understandably) and so I reckon that maybe, if you feel you could do this now, then you could maybe do it in May if you had to deal with it then?  Am I making any sense here?

The other major issue I picked up from your message is that if you don’t do this, you may well regret it.  A few of your thoughts made me feel this:

(But before you read on, I really hope this doesn’t come across as patronising or “preaching”.  I just wanted to really dissect everthing you were saying to see if I could read between the lines.  You said,” Hey thats good by writing this i am actually pin pointing my real fears” and I am hoping, that by dissecting your thoughts, you might actually be able to “hear yourself” … you know how sometimes it takes us to actually “say” something or “write it down” and only by listening to it or reading it back,  can we properly acknowledge our feelings and understand them a little better ….?  So that’s what I HOPE I’ve helped to do below)

	“ i felt like crap when i got back and i have been asking myself why don't I just jump at this opportunity??”
Maybe I’m wrong and I don’t want to sound like I’m preaching at all but to me, this doesn’t sound like someone ready to walk away … just yet.

	“I struggle with the thought that maybe when i have zil chance, which will probably be in three years time.”

I sense a “glimmer” of hope from you here, regarding the here and now so maybe you wouldn’t necessarily be “banging your head against a brick wall …?” !

	“The future is scarey and my dreams were about having children and thats what christmas and life was all about.”

Again, I get the feeling this is still something you want so, so much ….  Of course the future is scarey, but you are, I feel, bravely, already facing that fear just now so perhaps, just perhaps, you may be able to do the same (god forbid) you should need to next year ..?

	“I also know that time is running out and if i do anything about it, it has to be done soon.”

To me, this again, sounds like the other point you made above,  you actually DO have some hope for doing another treatment NOW ….?

	“if i don't throw caution to the wind now, then maybe i will lose that chance?”

Maybe here, you are sort of acknowledging to yourself that if you took a risk, it may well be worth it and if you didn’t you might live to regret it…?


	Plus and this is not from anything you quoted but,  you have a lovely DH is willing to do this with you aswell.  Please don’t feel guilty … you have not put him “second best”, you have merely longed to have a child with the man you love so much ……  perfectly natural.


The other thing that really jumped out was your feelings towards the next IVF.  You said that this clinic gave you something different, “new hope, future developments and one new option” but I sense you are feeling quite negative about it all, almost “giving in” to the fact that it won’t work…..?  and I’m not sure what’s prompted this?  Did the clinic give you any reason to feel negative about another treatment?  What are they saying to you about your realistic chances?  Understandably you will be fearful of it not working but I wondered what was making you feel you “are banging your head against a brick wall” ….?

I totally appreciate what you are saying about, “well, if I didn’t get pregnant then, what chance do I have now ..”  That was exactly how I felt about all this too.  But then, I added something “different” into the IVF mix and you mentioned your clinic had new hope, new options and new technology, so maybe you never know ….?

I know this post is very much geared towards the “fors” for treatment as opposed to the “againsts” but I suppose, IF you do decide to go into this, it would be a shame to put yourself through so much if you were feeling negative about it …?   

I really don’t know what else to say huni, as you know, only you can make the right decision but we all know the difficult thing is, making one that we will be happy with now, and in the longer term ….. Keep coming on here though and thrashing out your thoughts until you come to a decision you can feel at peace with.


I really, really hope the other lovely girls on here can give you some words of wisdom …. Not sure I’ve managed to do that …..


I am sending you heaps of love, understanding and one of our lovely friend Emcee’s (((( BIG SQUEEZY HUGS ))))))

All my love
Gill xo


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Astrid, lovely beautiful soul that you are...

Perhaps its time to cut yourself a bit of slack here honey and just 'go for it'?

What have you got to lose? If anything, all of this IF sh*t has taught me not to have any regrets.

Astrid, you have faced so much crap in your life from all quarters. You are a wonderful woman - you have been so resiliant in the face of adversity and have fought this latest demon of conflicting IF 'headsoup' for some time. Ask yourself what do you have to lose attempting this next treatment where they are thinking of trying something new? Yes, we all know how hard it is to put yourself through... most of us have been there. What I don't want you to do is make the fear stop you from giving yourself the chance to attempt this treatment. After all, you didn't let your fear of snakes stop you from trekking in the jungle, did you?

When we did our last IVF I had already thought I had decided a year before that enough was enough. Then we went for a follow up for the last appointment we had had and I didn't realise the depth of feelings I had stirring within me - about how I wanted to give it a go, the mixed feelings of terror mingled with hope then washed over with dread about 'what if...' and I was also surprised about the depth of emotion my DH felt about it too.

But I am so glad we did it for the following reasons:
It gave us hope where there was none before - even though I had all the usual doubts and fears.
It was something that, although I thought I didn't want to do looking back I was glad I had tried it one final time.
I desperately needed (without fully realising it) that I needed to get that last attempt out of my system because otherwise I would have been left waiting and wondering for ever more... and forever is a long time!
And finally... I am glad I went through with it, even though it was disasterous - I felt more at peace with myself afterwards for knowing we had tried every darn thing within our power that we could.

At the point of sounding totally ridiculous here, I want to say to you to look into your heart - cast aside all those emotions - take some time out to sit quietly without any disturbances and look within yourself. Play some beautiful soothing music, light a candle, burn some lavender oil - anything that relaxes you. Emotions and our egos can cloud our judgement over important decisions and cause much inner conflict. Get yourself to that place of calm, the place where the real core of yourself is, and ask yourself the question 'shall I go ahead with this'

You say you have made your husband second best - I don't agree with that statement either. Astrid, its so natural to want to be able to have a child with the person we love the most in the whole wide world - its just that because of each of our unique circumstances the path to parenthood has not been straightforward, therefore we have found ourselves devoting loads of time to attempting to acheive this in any way possible. Then there is the old chestnut of getting our heads around what has happened to us - and because we are vibrant emotional beings, we internalise all of this and go over it again and again... after all, we are all creatures who have a deep desire to nurture - just because some of us may never get to actually acheive this through parenthood doesn't take away what nature put there in the first place! Also - I *know* you Astrid, and I know you are not a person who would ever put anyone second best. You always go all out to go that extra mile for people... so I'll have no more of you saying that young lady! 

I appreciate how conflicting all these thoughts are for you hon because I have been there in my own capacity just over a year ago when we were trotting down the IVF path once again. I hope you can come to some sort of peace over this - whatever the answer is - as long as it is the right one for you that is all that matters.

Sending you much love and yes, some (((MEGA HUGE HUGS))) and telling you to be true to yourself, you will get just where you are meant to be in the end - and I hope that is a place of peace and of being sure in yourself no matter what you decide!

Take good care of yourself my lovely pal - here for you always no matter what.

Emcee xxx


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## ruby k (Jun 2, 2004)

Oh Astrid  
This is such a difficult decision to make - and I KNOW from experience that even when you think you've decided 'that's it' - that sometimes it isn't...You said in your post that deep down you knew what you felt and that 'it wasn't very nice' - what did you mean hun? Because it seems that there IS a feeling hope there too? I think Gill and Emcee have put it really well in that if there is a glimmer of hope, then maybe you should 'go' with that feeling and try one last time?? I agree with the idea of finding a 'quiet' space and asking yourself what you really want deep down...but I also know that I have done this and only come up with confusion. All I can say is that in order to feel I have no regrets (personally) i need to carry on with tx for the time being.....Astrid, only you can come to this conclusion - but at the end of the day its impossible to know the outcome of anything. At all....
Re your dh - I agree with the others..In some ways its the biggest compliment you can pay your husband that you tried everything to have his child...but I would also say that if you do really feel you have put him second - well there IS time to put that right...Thats the beauty of a good relationship - which is what you obviously have.

Keep 'talking' if you feel it would help.

Astrid - sending you loads and loads of love and ANOTHER big squeezy hug xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Dear Astrid,

I don't really know what to add here except to say that I really feel for you. If it helps, I went to the bitter end of the treatment on offer from my clinic and although it ended in another miscarriage, I can still say I am glad I tried everything as I think I would always have wondered "what if?"

It does sound as though you have a good relationship with a man who really loves you. Keep the communication flowing, it will help you find a way forward.

This is such a hard decision.I wonder if you could put it on hold till after Christmas? It seems such a difficult time for many of us, I know I am feeling very low and not in a state to make any major decisions. 

I will keep looking out for you here.

Thank you for all your support and sharing.

Love Jq


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## flipper (Jul 7, 2004)

Oh Astrid, your post must have been difficult one to write and like the other ladies, I really feel for you.

Advances in treatment can leave you "trapped" in limbo, it can be difficult move forward because there's always a potential something on the horizon, no matter how slim the chance of success, it's still there, calling your name.  When todays new treatment comes and goes, tomorrow's is there waiting, making it almost impossible to let go.

When our last treatment failed I made a request of my clinic knowing that they'd say no and that would be the end of my road. When they said yes I ran a mile from my own solution and it scrambled my brains for months.

You say that your dh has confided in your friend that "he can't take anymore".  Does this mean he doesn't want to go ahead with the new treatment or is he generally supportive of the idea?

One of the reasons I did IVF is that I wanted to "future proof" my reaction and our relationship from the repercussions of childlessness.  I didn't want to get to into my 40s and start regretting it, like you I had visions of slipping into depression and basically writing off the rest of my life (I've always been a bit of a drama queen).

I was horrified when I realised it would be an endless process.  If you have one go, you should have two, when you've done two, why not three, if that doesn't work try something else, when that doesn't work, find another clinic and on and on it goes.

No wonder you're having such a tough time of it.

As the other ladies have said, only you two can come to your final decision however you know we'll all be here to support you no matter what.

Love

flipper


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Dear Gill, Emcee, Ruby, JQ and Flipper
Thankyou so much for all your valid input. The time that you have taken in answering my post and your heartfelt input..
I think you are right JQ i cannot make any decisions now until after xmas. A wise bit of information, i think this time of the year can put lots of pressure on us...i suppose its a time where we need to be alittle gentle on ourselves..
I know most of you raised points that maybe life is about not having any future regrets. The thing is i called it a day just under two years ago. That also was going to be our last treatment and when it failed i was very releaved to leave it all behind. So to digg something up nearly two years later, when i thought i was going on the track of facing a childless future. This for me has thrown up alot of upset between us both.I think Flipper you are right, there is always a potential on the horizon. I suppose that has really thrown me as well, as its that dangling of the carrot in the face.!!!!
I went through numerous treatments infact eight and thats why i am struggling with the fact that the chances are so flipping slim, infact practically nil per cent. Thats also what i have been struggling with and that is 'my point, 'what is the point'? Infact i feel that my story is already written. The only way i would be doing another treatment, is of course to follow that 'hope'....and the fear of regretting this little bit of hope in the future!! 
Most of me wants to totally call it a day!!!! and leave it all behind, because i did do that one for the road!!!
But hey as you say i am going to have to do some soul searching and communicate with my hubby where we go from here. My hubby is willing to go for another one, but after that its over!!!
I feel that a weight has been lifted by sharing this with you all, just by doing that i feel i am making some positive tracks....that is putting things in its place. What do they say, a problem shared a problem halved!!
Thankyou so much!!
Happy Christmas to you all....I hope that 2007 brings you some peace and happiness we all deserve!!
lots of love astridx


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Hi Astrid

You're dead right there, this really is a tough time of year and with all that goes on around us can make the yearning to be a parent so much more intense and difficult.

I just wanted to send you some love, strength and friendship. May all of you (Meg the lovely little wonderdog included)! have a peaceful time.

Tons of love
Emcee xxx


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## janeo1 (Sep 27, 2006)

Dear Astrid

I have just read your post, and just wanted to send you a big hug. It is a tough decision to make, and I understand your mixed emotions. If is such a hard journey, all the hopes, what if's, etc etc.  Only you and your DH can decide what you want to do, talk to each other, share your feelings you will find your way. 
For my part I would say follow your heart.  Each and everyone of us knows deep down when we have finally reached the end of our road, if you heart is telling you to keep on well I for one think you should go for it.  Yes at times it can feel like why am I putting myself through this again am I mad?? but the future isn't written Astrid, you never know what will be. 

Much love
Jane x


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## Laine (Mar 23, 2002)

Astrid,

I am sure you will soon decide on what you want to do  But, I just wanted to send you this quote:

_When the world says "Give up", hope whispers "Try it one more time" - Unknown_

Laine xxx


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## jomac (Oct 27, 2006)

Dearest Astrid,
I'm not sure that I have anything to add but just wanted to send my love and thoughts and to wish you well with your decision.
Sometimes too I think we do ourselves a disservice to expect that this road of childlessness will be a straight path from an initial feeling that we decide to give up - or decide that we SHOULD give up ( for partners, for specialists etc). You are entitled to make your own road, If during your journey you need to make a few side trips or even go back to your original destination that it OK.
I identify so much with what you say

All my love Jo/Emma


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