# What do we really understand about our old eggs?



## 11th hour (Feb 4, 2006)

I say this because there is a general lack of info on this boards about the science of it, and i suspect that the rets of you, like me know a bit, but not that much. I mentioned in another post that id read the body narrows its egg selection down 3/4 months before ovulation. Very recently i had an interesting conversation with an expereinced IVFer, who has been recommended to give the process a go using an " natural cycle" ie, non stimulated egg. I asked her why and she told me that stimming eggs may give you many but fragilizes them and so are less likely to fertilize correctly for transfer.

So It makes me wonder, if the IVF success rate is so low for us old women,,due to egg quality,  then surely stimming is further compromising the health of that egg? 

1. Should one just think about having a natural cycle but with assisted hatching to help the sperm get inside? Ok less eggs to transfer, bigger risk, spending money hand over fist et'c, but then " you only need one good egg" and you wont have to put your body abnd emotion through the rigours of false hormones.

2. Secondly, there's the issue of grainyness that the clinics say they see in older eggs, (is that in the zona pelucida or in the cytoplasm) which are not of a high enough standard.These are surely stimmed older eggs....and therefore prone to a more defective quality than unstimmed eggs. ( u can tell ive been on these boards a bit, im starting to use the slang)

3. Two othe board member have informed me of a greek clinic, that is working with women 46 plus but using the natural egg One woman told me that a 48yr old had a success. Having said that,it begs the question, whats the failure rate? I may well email the clinic and ask if the consultant could give me her reasoning on this.

I often feel that there is a lack of info on this and i dont know where we can collectively get it..... Can we have some indepth help please from the nurse/midwife moderators on FF. Perhaps even a thread at the top that can really fully explain the issues . Everyone who comes on this particular board has at least this question in common. It crops up all the time. It was prob my first question on this thread and is probably what every new woman wants to know.

Please lets pool our info and see where this take us.


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## Jake (Jun 9, 2003)

Dear 11th hour.
We simply don't know enough  but to keep trying naturally is 100% good idea.  We continue to try in between treatments as you never know...
You may wish to look at the SIRM US clinic website (haveababy.com), at their 'news update and 'latest advances' that the docs -  in particular Dr Geoffrey Sher, are looking at with regards to women's ages, treatment protocols, eggs and embryos - some of the research has been published and some being repeated around the world, including Nottingham CARE.  We have had one aggressive, but tailored, carefully managed treatment with them - 10 eggs, 7 for icsi, 5 embryos, 3 in the running, and 1 made it to be tested as a chromosomally normal blast - considered normal for someone my age with an FSH that has been 12 (9.7 at 33).  Other women could have an ovarian/egg age less than their years, or older than their years  but at least efforts are finally being made to study this area and offer better chances of success and an ability to assess an individual.  

I hope this goes someway into helping you, if you've not already come across this. 
Jake
x (usually post on multiple cycle, high FSH and poor responders via ICSI thread)
ps.  I am not over 40 but it looks like I have a tendency to produce higher numbers of abnormal eggs in a cycle/for my age and so my biological age may be different


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## anita.e.t.p (Nov 11, 2005)

11th hour,

I have read alot of info in "The Times" recently that confirmed what you are saying and which is known by the clinics,that by overstimmulating us "oldies" our eggs are being damaged due to them being more fragile and resulting in fewer fertilizing,plus m/c.  This is a known fact but for ivf to work you need alot of eggs and so the high stimms.  Catch 22 situation.

There was info on a lady Dr in London who now does "natural ivf" and gets results but i cannot remember which clinic.  She stated it is better for older women. 

I got a BFP with an iui,both my ivf were poor and was told by my cons to try iui again since it was the nearest thing for us to natural(my dh is azoospermia) but it is alot of money plus the donor for the sperm.  

I know alot of older girls now that have had alot of treatment and then gone on to get pregnant naturally.  I have always felt if we could do that i would have caught by now.

Am now going abroad for donor eggs ,feel we cannot keep going on with the expense and all this treatment,

Just my view,

anita


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## Gizzle (Jan 13, 2007)

Hi 11th hour, Jake and Anita

Anita - I think the doctor you are referring to is Dr Geeta Nargund who is at the Assisted Conception Unit at Kings College Hospital.  If you google her name you can see the article in The Times also Daily Mail.  What she says is very interesting.

I'm definitely only going to give our IVF treatment one cycle only. If unsuccessful, I'll investigate other methods such as Chinese medicine and hope for a miracle that we get pregnant naturally.  

Gizzle x


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