# Has anyone decided not to foster or adopt due to the agencies / regulations?



## SWGirl (Aug 19, 2004)

Hello all, 

I have looked into both fostering and adoption with various agencies in the past and have decided against it now as I found everyone that I spoke to at all the agencies to be completely unhelpful or positive or even interested in taking my details.  I was wondering whether anyone else has felt the same?  

As there has been quite a bit if publicity in the news about this recently with a view to changing the rules and regulations for adopting, I wondered whether it would be useful to get a simplified list started in case anyone with any influence on the changes reads this site and can make use of the information (Let me know if there is already an existing thread for this).

I will list my own experiences below to get things started.... and hope that many of you will add your own personal experiences.


----------



## Rowan22 (Dec 29, 2008)

Hello, SWGirl,

I don't often look at this board but I happened to glance at it today and caught the title of your thread.
We were going to adopt, we tried three times but nobody wanted us.
It really is as simple - and as brutal - as that. 
We were rejected by one city agency and two county agencies, on what I consider to be ridiculous grounds. In one case, our house was too small, in another, they thought we wouldn't make a good match for the children they were preparing for adoption. The third time the agency rejected us on the grounds of my health (I am diabetic) and the fact that my dh has had depression. (This is a red rag to a bull, by the way). 
We didn't even get as far as the prep meetings or the home study. 
We're now looking at donor egg tx as I simply can't take any more rejections. It's heartbreaking, especially when you consider the sort of natural parents these poor children have had, in too many cases. We've both spent our professional lives in education and in that time we've both encountered children and teenagers from all sorts of ghastly backgrounds. I would have thought this kind of experience would have been invaluable but apparently not.
Good luck if you do try it. I hope you find a way forward to make your family. I completely agree with your comments about the system and there was a programme a couple of weeks ago about adoption breakdowns, which was interesting but sad viewing. 

Rowanx


----------



## ritzi (Feb 18, 2006)

without getting into a huge debate, i must say that people are turned down for adoption all the time, and for good reason. 

SWgirl:
having a child through adoption is HUGELY different to having a birth child, and each person must come to terms with their infertiity before having a child through adoption. you cannot simply put fertility treatment on hold while you adopt - then go back to it.  adoption is the end of fertility tx for the majority of women. waiting a year or two is completely normal and is helpful in allowing you to come to terms with your loss - before becoming a parent to a very needy child. 

not having a parent home full-time - at least for the first 6-12 months would also be an immediate no. and for good reason - adopted children cannot come home, then immediately go to nursery or childminder etc......they need time to attach, to bond to their new parents - how can they do that when the parents are in work full-time? it is normal for a parent to have paid adoption leave from work usually for the first year of an adopted child's placement.  there are options for social services to help with finance to allow a parent to remain at home. 

it does sound to me SWgirl that you want to become a mum by whatever means - you don't necessarily want to adopt. 
Adoption is about children finding parents - not about people becoming parents. Adoption has to be about the childs needs - and solely the childs needs. 

rowan22:
ridiculous reasons for you may not be so for the social workers. depression is a fairly common reason for people to be rejected to adopt, as is diabetes. It can be done but you will be made to jump through hoops. adopted children need a different type of parent who can cope with their history, their hurts and their needs. People who have experienced depression may not be the best type of parent to be able to handle all of the difficulties adopted children have.  That you wouldn't make good parents to the children coming through the system may simply have meant that you would not be suitable adopters at that time, but that in the future you would be considered. 

You have obviously both decided not to try other agencies etc and to pursue adoption. For those of us who have adopted, it is very difficult to read threads where social workers are insulted because people think they should be allowed to adopt - especially when it is fairly clear from reading that little understanding of the issues surrounding adoption have been explored.

ritz


----------



## Iman (Oct 11, 2007)

I found the waiting time after finishing treatment/consultation to be essential. Although at the time, I really wanted to get going with the adoption, in hindsight I can now see that I was in no way ready for what the adoption journey would need from me. 'Grieving' for the child you aren't going to have biologically is vital....I didnt fully understand until we went on Prep course just how much adoption is not about finding a child for people to be parents but about finding parents for a child. I dont believe I was really ready to understand that completly until I had had time to grieve and also our relationship as a couple needed to 'get over' that period so we could be as strong a unit as possible in order to parent an adopted child(ren).  I think that some agencies saying 2 years may be a bit excessive but I think 1 year is very important and needed.


----------



## Iman (Oct 11, 2007)

Hi again 

Just to answer your last point about agencies hanging on to children to make money.....children in care and awaiting adoption (Looked After Children) are under Local Authority care. It actually costs something huge like £500 a week ( I read the figure once, will try to find the report) to have a child in Foster Care. This is footed by the Local Authority not an agency. When a child is adopted, it actually saves the LA money as this is a child out of the care system - so 'hanging on to them' does not make them money. Anyone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but this was my (admittedly basic) understanding of the finances of it.


----------



## clarabell1973 (May 18, 2011)

Hi just  caught this thread and thought i would let you know my experience, i had worked for social services for years, mainly in nursery schools where i was responsible for the care of 8 children under 3 years of age. the nursery schools were not about taking the children away but trying to maintain a relationship with the parents and the children in order for them to stay in their homes, sadly this was not to be all of the time, and after supervising contacts and going to court almost every week regarding one of my children i cared for, taking abuse from the parents and having a knife to my throat in one stand off with a parent when i came out of court, i decided the job was not for me....i lasted 10 years...but it did make mine and my husbands mind up that adoption was for us over IVF...so being in the industry i found it quite easy to start the ball rolling....that was the only easy bit tbh....it drained me mentally, we had 2 amazing social workers who were well aware my husband had suffered from ADHD as a child ..., he had no background for it and we offered this info to them....they researched it of course and were highly impressed at how he had turned out as an adult....they were fully supportive and pushed us to continue...he having a background in personally dealing with ADHD and i having NNEB in childcare and also a trained special needs education adviser and a social services nursery nurse....all went very well and after many training days, courses, home visits etc...months and months of it.....we received a letter to inform us our application had been handed to another social worker and we were would have a few more meetings before it went to panel.....i met our new social worker once....i then went to work, by which time i worked in an education nursery, but still supervised conacts in for social services and still went to child protection reviews etc....my boss called me to her office as there was a phone call for me, it was my social worker letting me know she was sorry but she could not progress with our application as she did not think we were suitable...of course we could appeal but in light of my husband past mental health issues  ...by this she is talking about his fully under control ADHA. it would be highly unlikely we would be passed at panel anyway....in total we spent 9 months constantly under scrutiny with social services...so my experience is not a great one i understand for many its a very happy ending....oh and there were 9 other couples who attended our training days.....not one of them got approved.....this probs being the reason that right now the adoption process in the UK is in the media limelight x


----------



## wynnster (Jun 6, 2003)

Hello SWGirl,

This whole process is of course about the children.  
Just think of this scenario, a couple decide to go down the adoption path but keep a toe in with having further tx (thus not grieveing for never having a birth child) the couple then go on to adopt a child, at this point the couple then think OMG what have we done, I dont want this child I want my own and sink into a deep depression, the child suffers, the adoption breaks down and the child is left with further trauma in their already fragile life.
Or 
There is a couple who have sadly been unable to conceive and feel they have come to the end of the road and feel ready to move forward 100% with the adoption process having had their tears for not having a birth child.  

Not saying that the adoption with the couple who have 'grieved' won't break down, but the risk is certainly less so. 

As for sw's being picky, yes some of the stories you hear sound petty, but, that is only one side of the story.  Adopters need to be a certain type of person in my opinion, have a certain heart if you like.... (sorry hard to explain), anyway I do wonder if some sw's find one thing to tell a couple that they're not suitable but the reason is for something else, you can hardly say 'You dont have the right personality'......

On our prep course we had a guy who was so outspoken and made comments like 'you (ss) will have to find me the right child' 'i'm not taking a duff one' and 'i've got more money than X so think of what I could buy a child'............ he was not told on day 1 that he wouldn't be suitable, but instead continued on the course until SS found a reason to tell him not to return (well it seemed like that to me anyway!)


You mentioned about working parents, I chose not to return to work.  With our 2nd time adoption a sw rolled her eyes at me not returning to work...... it works both ways. 

Best of luck whatever path you choose but I suspect you have already decided this one is not for you. 

xx


----------



## Iman (Oct 11, 2007)

Hi

Yes it did take us 2 years from starting Prep course in July 09 to being officially Matched at panel in July 11. But in amongst all that, we did have a delay of 6 months additionally as we decided to upsize to a bigger place as we decided to go for 2 children and not 1 (our previous home was suitable for 1 child but not 2) but that was a delay caused by us....

yes prior to July 09 from around March 08 I think it was, we had at least 1 year between ending the TTC road and starting adoption. We took a holiday in that time and came to terms with it.

I think its very important to do that as I said. You cant really be still trying to get PG and going through this process - it is so fundamentally about the childs needs and not our own. I think I needed that time as I said. Also, you have  to consider what you would do if half way through the adoption journey (or worse still, once you are linked or matched to a child) you then become pregnant....ditch it all? carry on? what would be the implications for birth child and adopted child?  these are the types of things an agency will be expecting you to consider. 

I dont really understand why it would take such a long time before you might find out you are not suitable for adoption. In my experience and understanding, if a couple is not ready or suitable for any reason, i would expect them to be informed of this at the beginning or near the beginning of the process.....it could be bad practice that could mean they could get a long way through and into Home Study before being told this. Having said that, that is what the Home Study process is for, so its possible and why its there....to find out if you really are suitable at that time and if you really want to do it for the right reasons. I remember when we started the HS part, being told that by the end of it we would find out things about ourselves we didn't even yet know...and that was certainly true. You name it, they want and need to know it.

I know its a lot of time and waiting and a long process. As you have rightly guessed its 3 years in the making for me and I count myself as one of the lucky ones who found their child(ren) very soon after going to Approval Panel......it IS long....but at the risk of sounding cheesy, its very much worth it and if you want it, you will grin and bear it. I know its tough....I feel that the patience I learnt over the TTC and adoption journeys only helped prepare me for the patience I now know I needed in parenting adopted children....and trust me, you really need it sometimes!!  I also believe in destiny or fate....so for me our timings were perfect because if they had been any different I wouldnt have the 2 gorgeous littlies I am so fortunate to have now. At the time it was torture, but now it makes sense, I just didn't know it then.

you sound like you are stuck in a dilemma....If I were you I would take the time out to think about what you want. And I would be sure if I were you that ending the TTC road (which is what you will need to do for adoption) is something you are prepared to do just yet. If its not, then wait.....finish with IVF (hopefully for the right reasons!!) before considering, as you do need to close a door on that before committing to adoption. This is something that will be explored more in Prep course and HS.


----------



## Daizy (Feb 25, 2011)

Having gone through the adoption process, I’m of the opinion that the system needs to be looked at and perhaps simplified – by that I mean the ‘due processes’ and the general bureaucracy needs to be looked at. It’s a hugely stressful process and the approach that’s taken to adopters can get very wearying (because sometimes you feel as though you’re being treated almost with suspicion, instead of with warmth and welcome).
That said, in this instance I agree fully with everything ritzi has said. The ‘rule’ on closing the door on fertility treatment/having your own child is a necessity; it’s not something that should be changed. We waited a few years between finishing fertility treatment and even contacting our local authority.  
I would also say that much of what you read online about adoption ‘criteria’ is myth. I was treated by my doctor for reactive anxiety/depression and, while it was something that was discussed during assessment, it didn’t hinder us in any way.  
I’m sorry if this sounds blunt SWgirl, but to give up at the initial phone call stage does suggest that you aren’t remotely ready for the adoption process.


----------



## wynnster (Jun 6, 2003)

You assume 10 out of 10 couples wanted to proceed...... alot go to prep to find out more and then decide against it, but alot of 'issues' also come out at prep, the fact you are still having tx being one of them.


----------



## Daizy (Feb 25, 2011)

Agreed wynnster. In fact I found the 4 day prep group more stressful than the 6 month home study! I had my only serious ‘wobble’ during prep group.


----------



## clarabell1973 (May 18, 2011)

actually we kept in touch with all of them and we still do most of them, they turned into good friends of ours...none got approved...all of them wanted to proceed...i am not arguing with people that adoption is wrong etc...but some are lucky with it....and some arnt....we cant deny that social services don not get it right all the time....there are many cases where they messed up big time which is the reason they are so intense with prospective parents.....but as i have come out of the adoption route...i can not have a say in what happens in this day and age as this was over 10 years ago in my case.....i was with sunderland authority, and i can tell you...one couple were turned down by them because the husband had a gun licence for riffles and kept them in a locked cupboard.....yet....13 months later...newcastle upon tyne adoption services passed them knowing about the gun licence and they adopted 2 brothers, i actually knew the kids and they were 2 of 8 that were taken into care from the biological parents...the other 6 as far as i know never got matched to anyone and remained in foster care...i could tell you a million stories which defy logic but they are no different from the millions of other stories we hear on the news every day.....xx


----------



## clarabell1973 (May 18, 2011)

oh and by the way please don not assume because i am now having ivf that i did not want to proceed.....my husband DIED and now i am with a new partner


----------



## clarabell1973 (May 18, 2011)

and now i will leave this thread and return to my 2ww as i test officially tomorrow....fingers crossed for everyone adoption, ivf, etc....hope all your dreams come true xxx


----------



## Rowan22 (Dec 29, 2008)

Good luck for tomorrow, Clarabell!

Ritzi, I hope you didn't read my post as insulting, it wasn't meant to be. I am still trying to deal with my own feelings of hurt and rejection from the three failed adoption attempts but I can assure you that we did read a great deal about the process and looked at forums like Adoption UK regularly when we thought it could be an option for us. And yes, I do know about attachment theory and all the rest.
The diabetes is not my fault and again, it's something I'm stuggling to come to terms with. It was the result of a previous, serious illness. To have it thrown in my face and told that it means I wouldn't make a good parent is very hard to accept. And yes, we do have our hearts in the right place, Wynnster, at least I hope so.

SW girl, thank you and good luck with your own path. 

Rowan


----------



## Daizy (Feb 25, 2011)

Hi again SWgirl,

Firstly I don’t want to seem merely disagreeable, please don’t think I’m being deliberately blunt or a ‘know it all’ – I wouldn’t want to appear that way at all. It’s just that there’d be no point in me intimating that adoption isn’t an extremely hard road to hoe, it is - and the ONLY reason I commented that you’d struggle with the process (if initial phone call had put you off) is because it’s true. At no point will a social worker try to ‘sell’ the idea to you, and each stage becomes more and more challenging. Your commitment is under scrutiny at every stage, and social workers do that because they are all too familiar with post adoption struggles and, in too many cases, disruption.
It would be impossible for me to relay to you how your learning and understanding grows during the process (it’s designed to help you gain an understanding of looked after children's needs), all I’ll say is that only once our daughter was placed did I fully understand the whys and wherefores of the application process. 

Falling pregnant AFTER adopting is something else entirely, thus the examples you’ve given of people having both birth and adopted children aren’t comparable to people having fertility treatment at the same time as applying to adopt. Without really scraping the surface it seems very obvious to me why doing both is a recipe for disaster. Unsuccessful fertility treatment is a difficult and emotional experience, and you need to be 100% emotionally stable to best serve (in terms of help and support) the needs of a child who – in the majority of cases – has been removed from their birth family because of concerns about their welfare, they’ll have experienced neglect, abuse and such like and are likely to have their own particular (often very complex) emotional needs.

You aren’t asked (well we weren’t) about contraception, however before embarking on the process it’s a given that you’re no longer trying for a birth child and during assessment/home study it’s determined that you’ve come to terms with not having a birth child (I’m sure you can understand why a residue of longing for your own child could impact on your ability to bond with a child who has suffered and thus presents with lots of physical and emotional challenges).


----------



## Daizy (Feb 25, 2011)

SWGirl said:


> Ah, so they make it deliberately hard on purpose, even with the first phone call. they are looking for people that cannot accept 'No as an answer'. They are all agreed that it is these sort of people that will make good parents. Ones that are likely to be able to 'take a hint' should not pass go. What a fabulous way to start. Seems crazy to be actively putting people off at each stage along the way. Perhaps more emphasis needs to be placed on the positive side of adopting. We all know that all kids (yes not just the adopted ones) will be hard work overall in raising but even with my pitiful experience I know their is also a positive side to raising kids. It sounds like the Social Workers and Agencies focus on how parents of adopted children will never be able to just treat the child as they would if it was their biological child and it sounds like they have brainwashed the parents into thinking the same. In your opinion would a second adoptive child arriving be more disruptive to the existing child than say having a biological child arrive in that Childs life (baring in mind that you all think there is a lot of extra demands with adopted children) The arrival of a biological child should be discussed in these meetings as like it or not it does happen and it can work
> out well. It seems like such a dismissive attitude. I do not understand this grieving process thing that everyone is taking about. It sounds like I am supposed to sit down and cry for a year and then feel much better thank you very much. I think I did my grieving in 2002 to 2005, since then I have focussed on getting on with my life and trying to start a family.


I imagine they do actively put some people off. Maybe getting through the process isn't so much about being subservient or indeed brainwashed; perhaps it's more about picking and choosing your battles. 
Until you have a child placed, everything that you discuss in assessment is hypothetical, and it focuses on the worst case scenario because (as I've already said) these scenarios apply to the majority of kids available for adoption. Believe it or not they don't just tell you that to pee you off. Most kids in care have suffered some degree of trauma. No, you won't agree with everything the social worker(s) say, but sometimes the only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it.

You're asking again about children arriving AFTER an adoptive child is placed. Your gripe though is actually about actively trying for a birth child whilst applying to adopt. To have a child in care prepared to move to an adoptive home, and then be told it's off because the adopters have just discovered they're pregnant has the potential to be utterly catastrophic for that child. Having a child in care arrive at the same time as a birth child also has the potential to be terrifying for the child.


----------



## Iman (Oct 11, 2007)

SWgirl

Its not about trying to put people off from the beginning and looking for those who wont take no as an answer. Its about finding out if you really want to parent an adopted child and are ready for it.......there's a lot of misconceptions out there that an adopted child comes to live with you and its just like they were never adopted, its just like parenting any other child who has not been LAC and its not. This is recognised by professionals - its one of the reasons the recent school admissions code by the DfE was changed so that adopted children who were previously LAC dont lose their rights. Because once they are adopted, it doesnt mean all their extra needs and issues have disappeared.....many adopted children continue to have special needs because of what they have been through. Yes there is a positive side to raising children - ALL children - of course there is, or no-one would ever do it!! But raising an adopted child will throw issues up for a parent to deal with, that they would not necessarily need to deal with for a biological child. And paramount through out all raising of all children, is of course the needs of the child.

The grieving process......no you dont have to cry and wail and then feel better. But you do need to put that area of your life to rest. Trust me, when you go through this process, you are unlikely to have any emotional energy for dealing with anything else. The adoption will be and should be the primary area of focus and concern in your life at the time.  Should you become pregnant when going through this, it would be disasterous for the prospective adoptive child(ren) involved. When our two came, there is no way I had the time, energy or could give my attention to anyone or anything else - let alone a pregnancy or newborn. It would have been extremley disruptive and hindered attachment massively. No-one is saying that if you adopt, you can't have birth child also....plenty of people have birth children and then adopt later but even with that, LAs and VAs will stipulate a minimum age gap between the children and minimum age of the birth child before they would consider you simply because the needs of the adopted child will be paramount. No-one is saying you can't adopt and then have a birth child later on either....again it happens. However, trying to have a birth child at the same time as adopting is not appropriate because you would not be able to devote the time or attention you need to. 

Personally, I dont like your comment that adoptive parents such as myself have been brainwashed. I think its inappropriate sorry. I havent been brainwashed (but I suppose you might think I have been led to think that also!) I KNOW from even the short time my children have been with us, that parenting an adopted child or children DOES involve additional needs and issues that wouldnt ordinarily need to be considered and to pretend that it doesn't, would be detrimental to the self-esteem, identity and attachment of my children and my and my husband's relationship with them. 

Wish you the best with whatever route you choose to take.


----------



## crusoe (Jun 3, 2005)

Hi there 
I'll be honest I haven't read all the posts on this thread yet but just wanted to let you know a little of my experience.
I didn't exactly tell the truth to our adoption agency and I ran IVF and preparation to adopt in unison believing the years gap between IVF and adoption to be a waste of time. This decision really came back to bite me. When my child was placed I hadn't dealt with the fact I couldn't have a birth child, that I wasn't going to have a tiny baby and all that goes with that. I resented my son, felt I had made the most terrible mistake of my life and was totally incapable of mothering a child who had suffered trauma and neglect. This affected my bond with my child and undoubtly his attachment to me. I am in no doubt the placement would have broken down without the support of my wonderful DH, mum, other adopters and understanding social workers.
I also want to add we were actively put off adoption by sw at the start who didn't want to put us forward to prep. We had to really proactively fight our corner. 
Also the not working thing... My plan was to return to work after adoption leave but the level (not untypical levels) of abuse and trauma my son has suffered would  make this detrimental to his attachment and developmental needs. 
Adoption "rules" don't always seem logical from the outside but in my experience really are there for a reason. Everything Ritzi says in her initial post rings true with me.
Adoption is by far the hardest thing I have ever done and also the best. My situation is now great, we are a happy family but we will always be different to families with birth children - adoptive parenting is a form of extreme parenting! 
I wish all of you still looking to build your families all the luck in the world.
Love Crusoe xxxx


----------



## Old Timer (Jan 23, 2005)

Hi

I've had a quick read through of this post and, being an adoptive parent to 2 children placed separately, I feel I am qualified in posting on this thread.  I am NOT brainwashed and tbh, SWgirl, some of your comments are insulting and maybe that is why you have had trouble in getting started on the adoption path??

Believe me, you would not have the time or energy to do both the adoption process and ivf at the same time.  This puts aside the fact that when you decide to adopt it is because you want to be a parent more than anything and not just up your chances at getting a child somehow or other.  ALL adopted children have suffered loss and trauma, even those removed at birth or relinquished, there is no getting away from that fact and these children need parents that are completely committed to doing the best for them.  There is no harm in getting more information in order to help you decide whether to go for adoption or ivf but that is where it ends.  

6 months to 1 year is a pretty normal waiting time agencies require between last tx and starting the adoption process.  There is plenty you can read during this time, spend time as a couple doing things you've put on hold and will put on hold again, getting child care experience.....the list is endless.  Its not so much about crying but getting your life back on track and taking a breather rather than jumping from one rollercoaster to another.

At the moment adoption agencies are running on very tight budgets and have to use their resources effectively.  SWs are all very heavily loaded with cases and agencies may not have the staff to deal with new enquiries at that time and if you don't meet their immediate needs they are not going to put you through the process at this stage.  They WILL NOT phone and chase you, they are not there to 'sell' adoption, it has to be you doing the calling and follow ups, this is nothing new or personal to you.  They do not have the time or staff to maintain a list and contact people on the off chance they may still be interested.

Parenting adoptive children is NOT the same as parenting birth children.  Early loss and trauma doesn't go away, you can help to heal some of it but you will never get away from the fact these children have lost so much before they come to you, without taking into account abuse & neglect.  For a lot of our children the issues do not arise until they start school and then you can find yourself and your family being turned upside down after thinking you had a 'normal' child.  Throughout a child's life there are times when their past is more apparent, when feelings can run high, when anxieties can raise their heads no matter how settled and secure a child is.  Some adopted children can't cope with school and have to be home educated, some can't cope with parties or being left with anyone, sleepovers, playdates or any change in routine.  I can't list all the things that as an adoptive parent you could be faced with but there are huge uncertainties with all our children.

Yes, being a parent is hard work regardless of birth or adopted children but it is potentially a lot harder when you have a child that finds it hard to trust adults, that feels they can rely on only themselves for care, that doesn't think they are good enough to be loved, that rejects people that care for them before the adult can reject the child.....just to name a few.....

Personnally I don't think the approval process needs much changing, its the child's side that needs a real shake up in order for these children to be moved to permanance as quickly as possible whether that is back to BPs, long term FC or adoption.  There was nothing in the approval process that I found intrusive or unnecessary, the more information the SW had about us the better a match they could find - simple really!  You do have to be prepared for delays and hurdles, the process will test your commitment but it is designed that way in order to ensure they have the right people adopting the children.  This is about what is best for the children they have coming through the system at all times, not about finding a couple/person a child.

In just over 5 years I've had 2 children placed, the 2nd we are awaiting our court date.  The more you are willing to do to show commitment the better IMO and experience.  I've read more than 30 books, been on about 15 courses run by our LA for FCs, been to as many support groups as possible run by our LA amongst other things.  I had to advocate for my DS to get him the school place he needed (before the DofE changed the ruling) and I have helped to highlight this problem through our LA and the DofE by talking and writing to many many people.  I have known people who just sit and wait for their SW and wonder why it has taken so much longer to get matched.

Regarding a sibling arriving : a birth child would raise different questions for an adopted child due to identity, seeing a baby being cared for properly, belonging and about their own birth family/birth etc.  The practicalities of having a newborn baby in the house is totally different from having an older baby/young toddler arriving.  A newborn stays where you put them, tend to sleep alot and not need the same amount of attention that an older baby requires so it would be easier to still give time to the older sibling, to reassure them, to answer their questions etc.  Our DD came home at 14 months, DS was 5, already walking, running and climbing.  She transferred her attachment to me very quickly and was very jealous of her brother having any time with me.  We are 3 months in and it is getting better but that is down to her having to learn that she has to share me.  DS has been really good about it all and adjusted well but then we included him throughout the process and prepared him as best as we could a 5 year old.  Luckily he wanted a sibling but a lot of children don't.  However, it has not been without its moments and hard work which will continue for some time yet. 

We had to seriously consider how it would affect our DS bringing SWs back into his life.  He is very settled and secure but it was still a worry as you never know what might trigger major problems.  Then you have the waiting with no idea of how long it will be before you find the right child to join your family.  When you do find the right child you then have to prepare for matching without sharing the news with your child, only after matching panel do you feel safe to show photos and tell them about their new sibling.  Introductions have to be planned so carefully around the needs of both the new and existing child.  We had to leave our DS with his Nan for a week which was the longest we'd ever been apart.  Then when they actually introduce the 2 children you have the worry over what could be triggered by going to a strange home and meeting more strange people (FCs) at a very important time.  The reality of bringing a 2nd child home and how routines have to shift about, the older child having to go off to school seeing Mum staying home with LO, juggling your time between the 2 as in any family but having to be extra aware of the anxieties of an adopted child and ensuring they are not pushed out.  Again I could go on and on but surfice to say there are a lot of things you have to seriously think about that people having birth children take for granted.

Health - depression isn't a total door closed to adoption, it will vary on agency, time since the 'episode', how you dealt with it and if you are still on medication.  Being overweight again will vary but if your overall health is at risk then its going to be a problem.  The children we adopt have suffered enough and SS needs to ensure that they are not placing children in homes whether someones health could deteriorate or worse.  No one can know what might happen, anyone could suddenly become stressly ill, but they can't afford to take risks.

Contraception - I went on the pill during the adoption process because I didn't want the heartache of getting pg and miscarrying (which would have been the outcome), I didn't want any delays in the process and it showed my commitment and that I had moved on from having birth children.  I wasn't told to, it was my choice.

Returning to work - I went back part time 1 year after DS came home, he went to nursery, but the main thing was I was flexible and if he needed me at home I wouldn't have returned.  This time round DD will be a lot younger and I am being made redundant at the end of my adoption leave so I am not planning on getting another job unless I really need to.  Both children will benefit from me being home.

Adoption isn't for everyone, nothing to be ashamed of if you feel it isn't for you.  On this site we have mainly adopted babies/toddlers and most are doing well or have few issues (mainly but not all), another site (adoption uk) has a lot of people posting because they need support rather than 'chatting' with friends.  You don't find many positive posts there because there are too many people going through very difficult times, many of which have adopted older children and harder to place children.  There are also cases on there where the process from start to matching has taken many many years but you don't know the reasons for this and from all the people I know who have adopted this is not the norm.

Rather than this post it may have been better angled from asking the adoptive parents for advice and ideas on what agencies are looking for....................

OT


----------



## keemjay (Jan 19, 2004)

swgirl
the others have said alot of sensible things before me..(excellent post OT)but i wanted to just add...

i think many adopters if truthful had some of the niggles you have right now when we started the process and probably even during them..for instance..
'i'm ready to move on now, i shouldnt have to wait a year JUST cos the agency say i have to' or
'how many more flippin hoops do i have to jump though to get my family' and
'its not fair that we have to do all this when 'normal' parents dont have to pass any tests at all'

its totally normal to feel hurt by more rejection after the pain of failed ivfs, but like someone else pointed out if you are feeling hurt at this acute level then its probable that you arent ready to adopt just now. I'm sorry i dont quite understand your story..you say you've done your grieving between 2002-2005 yet you are still having treatment? in that case i dont think your grieving is quite over and done with..perhaps i'm misunderstanding..

its only once you have got your children that the time spent waiting and preparing really makes sense..'normal' parents have 9 months to prepare for their child..adopters sometimes have as little as 6 weeks to prepare for the child once they are matched ..so in a sense the approval/homestudy process  represents an 'extended pregnancy' for the child during which you read/research/talk to other adopters/go on courses etc so that you are totally 'ready'.
its easy to get fixated with timescales but the bottom line is that a child will find its right family when the time is right..if i had started the process when i had wanted to and not waited the extra time then we wouldnt have our DD and DS right now and they were really and truly meant for us..so we were meant to have that extra wait...i think many others will say the same

as i am commonly heard to say amongst adopters in my LA,  'Adoption is not for wimps'.. it is not for people who fall down at the first hurdle and have a 'the adoption process is against me' attitude..you need to be tougher than that, tougher than you'd ever imagine to survive the process, placement and subsequent family life without falling apart..i'm a reasonably tough person and have a very sound 15 yr marriage..but even i have had moments where i have stumbled a little..and i would not have got through them if i had not properly moved on from all that had gone before..

it feels like you are so busy fighting the 'process' that you are blind to all that you need to become to make you a good adoptive parent. I hope you find  a way to find peace with the necessary process if you decide its the path for you..otherwise i think you will find it a very rocky path indeed with an inevitable drop at the end

kj x


----------



## oliver222 (Oct 8, 2009)

I have read this thread with interest. I can't really comment on process as just at very start. Going to info evening in Jan. I contacted Sw to ask about adoption just prior to starting my 1st nhs ivf. Had an early m/c in July 2010 after natural bfp and then fell pregnant few months later with twins. Lost one baby dec 2010 and then other twin at 16 weeks (he had Downs) in Jan 2011. At this stage adoption was very much on my mind and was reading up on it and giving myself sometime to grieve. Was just at stage of thinking about calling to enquire when letter came through advising was at top of nhs list for ivf. Wasn't really sure what to do as concerned re m/c. I decided to give ivf one go.
When I called to speak to Sw they were not to positive but more I spoke to her the more interested she became. I was honest told her that I honestly felt that adoption was path for me but felt that if did not have one try at ivf might regret it and wanted to make sure that my ttc journey was over. Had initialy said that would need wait at least 6 months after ivf but I spoke to her at length and said look if ivf fails can I at least phone you back and discuss things. Ivf resulted in a chemical pregnancy so I stopped treatment. Told hospital that I did not want my second nhs try and was going to pursue adoption instead.
Called sw back few weeks later and said that wanted to proceed, again waiting was mentioned. Again I spoke to her at length and said knew reasons for waiting etc but that I was stopping ttc. Adoption was not my last resort but a choice as I still had an ivf attempt on Nhs that I was turning down and could she maybe speak to her manager etc.
She called me back next day and said that had spoken to her manager and she had told her that she felt I was ready to go ahead and that she was keen to move us forward. Manager said that wanted us to take the break before Xmas but happy for us to start ball rolling in Jan with info evening. 
I am really excited about starting adoption process and I can honestly say that getting that letter through about info evening was more exciting than when I got letter about ivf. 
I am not too worried about falling pregnant again naturally as amh is low and although I have fell pregnant twice before that was when I was using fertility monitors etc. As soon as we are officially in process (all going well after info evening) I am going to go on pill to ensure I dont fall pregnant. 
I see adoption as our route now and when me and dh talk about future, we talk about that never about me falling pregnant.


----------



## crusoe (Jun 3, 2005)

Brilliant post OT, you have said it all so eloquently.


----------



## coxy (Aug 4, 2005)

SWgirl,
i am too an adoptive parent, and i definately havent been brainwashed and quite frankly i dont like comments.
Like Keemjay, i am interested as to why you said you did your grieving in 2002 - 2005 and yet are still having fertility treatment.
It seems you have got most people backs up and i just hope people who are thinking of adopting dont read your post and be put off, like the others have said agencies/LA obviously had good reasons to turn you down. 
I dont think the adoption route is for you.
Coxy


----------



## Clomidia (Dec 13, 2007)

To add to the debate... for those interested...



SWGirl said:


> If the general opinion is that the current system is very good and working well then I'm genuinely pleased. I had worried that something was not quite right with the system but if that not so so then that is fab.


I agree with OT; I found the actual process worked well - it took us 8 months from application to panel, and we felt this was the right time needed to prepare, go to prep course, do home study, etc etc. Maybe we were lucky... But it is the system BEYOND us adopters that I think is suffering terribly - there are so many delays, court dates, problems with paperwork etc etc. Children languish in care when they don't need to be, when they could be back with BPs or moved on to approved adoptive parents.

I wouldn't like the approval system to be any quicker, or any less intrusive, but I would like the social care system for those children in need to be changed.

Of our prep group, one couple dropped out during the course, and one single adopter dropped out afterwards (for their own personal reasons). The rest of us were approved, bar one couple going to panel next month (there are 7 sets remaining). Most have been linked or matched.

Also, DH and I stopped tx in Sept 09, then approached VA around one year later. I don't count this time in between as "waiting" to adopt, I count it as taking the time out to grieve for our biological family, to get back to normal, away from the bubble of IF tx, and to enjoy time together. So we have only been on the adoption road just over a year, and are hopefully going to matching next week.

We have unexpl IF and I have not used any contraception during this time (not for years and years frankly, have never had a natural pg). Our chances of conceiving are, frankly, zero anyway but if they asked us to use contraceptive then of course we would. I would dread getting PG because our adoptive child is our priority. Frankly, I'm praying for the menopause so I can stop having these annoying AFs every month!! 

Oh, and neither do I think I've been brainwashed... but...  
Good luck to all on their journeys, wherever they are...


----------



## Omelette (Nov 28, 2007)

I know this is an old post now and did get slightly sidetracked on some details relating to your particular case, SW girl, but just to say we have dropped out due to the process. We had our initial chat with the social workers and they were very happy and immediately put us forward to their next prep group, having no issues with DH and I at all but we've done some more looking into things and read 'An adoption diary' and have decided we simply aren't prepared to put ourselves through this long process nor jump through all the hoops they are inevitably going to hold. We'd really like to be parents, but to answer your first question, yes, we've decided not to proceed because of all these regulations. 

I hope you have been able to find a way forward for you and best of luck with whatever direction. 

O


----------



## Cloudy (Jan 26, 2012)

O

Thank you for bringing this topic to the top. 

I have read it all and can see it got quite heated, but I just want to thank everyone involved for their differing perspectives. If anything this has made me actually feel better about adoption. We haven't applied yet and are still in the process of thinking, researching, reading and talking, but we are both now about 99% sure that adoption is right for us - although we are just waiting for a consultation to ensure we have fully considered the IVF option: I don't think it would do justice for our future family (however that may happen) if we don't fully explore all avenues.

I did just want to say that 25 and 20 years ago when my cousins were adopted by my aunty the process was quick and easy and didn't involve the indepth prep group, home study, and references. My eldest cousin had to go into care as a teenager due to serious behavioural difficulties (and now has had her own children taken into care) and my youngest cousin has a long list of minor criminal offences and attachment/emotional issues. Both children came from very difficult backgrounds and were probably badly placed together (not from the same family). My aunty did an amazing job and was very well suited to adoption (and fostering which she also did). Unfortunately things were not done thoroughly enough and my eldest cousin's background was not explored as it should have been. Maybe when people complain that the process is too long they should consider the wide implications if the process isn't as thorough x


----------



## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

Very well said, Cloudy!    And best of luck with your consultation, and future journey, whatever that may be.


----------

