# Need advice please on where to start with finding right clinic



## Angel_Delight (Jan 23, 2011)

Hi,

After trying to conceive the natural way, despite being told I am going through early menopause, myself and my partner have decided to look into egg donation.  How do you get started? Would like to hear from people that have gone through this.  We're not sure how we feel emotionally either, I'm worried that if we're sucessful, I wont love it like my own.  It's been a long journey so far and have been told by the NHS that this is my only option


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## bangles (Nov 4, 2009)

I would say that there is only one answer which is to go to Serum in Greece, based on personal experience.  It's the only clinic I know of where women are treated as individuals (not put on a conveyor belt) and the success rates, even with hard to treat women, are brilliant.  Penny, the doctor there is fantastic and miles ahead of the game where treatment is concerned.

HOWEVER...........

Egg donation abroad is anonymous, so your child would never know anything about the egg donor apart from a few basic facts.  Fine if you didn't intend telling the child anyway, (but not telling the child is fraught with dangers and problems which are often not thought through by the recipient parents).  Also, you have to factor in travelling, but this is surprisingly easy when so many of us have trodden the path before.  Athens is perhaps not top of everyone's list of places to go right now, but we have all found it a pretty safe and easy city - you just have to avoid the strikes.

HOWEVER...........

On the plus side, treatment abroad does not involve long waiting lists.  When I first looked into egg donation, the UK lists were commonly about a year long, and if you didn't get pregnant that time, you would go to the bottom of the list again.  I don't know how long the lists are now.

Secondly, the egg donors abroad are young, fertile women who have already had children themselves.  British egg share schemes sound great, but do you really want to pay stacks of cash to have the eggs of a woman who can't conceive  Also, the clinics abroad can match all hair/skin/eye colours, so don't think 'but I don't look Greek!'

Thirdly, treatment abroad costs less.  At Serum a cycle with donor eggs tailored to you costs 5000 euros, or if you use the back-up donor rescue plan it is 3000 euros.  Everyone out there speaks good English and the people are fantastic.  There is no problem with communication, as we all just email Penny and she gets back to us the same day.

You really have to weigh up how you are going to deal with having a donor egg baby/child, and figure your way through the moral maze of it all, and then decide from there whether speed is of the essence or whether your child needs to know who their egg donor is.  

I don't know much about the British clinics offering this.  Obviously all I hear about them is that they are not very good from the ladies who have been to them and then decided to go abroad.  I'm sure the ladies who get pregnant there would be more positive, so I suspect my view is negative because of where on the boards I am.

B xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Angel_Delight (Jan 23, 2011)

Thanks for your reply, I'll look at their website   What's a "back-up donor rescue plan"? Also, how long did you have to spend over there?  I currently work full time...

Tx


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

have a look at my donor egg FAQ, am happy to try and answer other questions if you have them once you've had a read through

it's here:

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=256679.0

Suitcase
x


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## bangles (Nov 4, 2009)

Tra, when a woman books an egg donor, the clinic usually arrange for a second egg donor (back-up donor) to prep up at the same time.  This is so that if the original donor has a problem and doesn't produce the expected eggs, the back up can be used to avoid the recipient going home empty handed (or wombed).  But most of the time the back up is not needed because the selected donor produces good eggs.  Therefore the clinic has extra eggs.  On the back up rescue plan you can ring the clinic and ask if there are any back up donor eggs likely to be around when you ovulate, and if so, you go out there about ovulation time.  You can use your dh/dp sperm if you want, or the clinic will use some donor sperm.  The clinic will try their hardest to match you with a suitable back up donor looks-wise, but obviously it is a less accurate match than if a donor was selected using your photograph.  I did this plan.  I am 5 foot 7, with blonde hair and blue eyes and my egg donor was the same height and colouring, although she weighed less (mind you, so did I when I was her age - 26!)  For us it is easy to match because my dh and ds are both brown hair and brown eyes, so they look nothing like me.  DS is also a bit olivey of complexion.  In fact, most people don't think we are related, even though I'm his genetic mother.  So almost anything is explainable in our family - except ginger hair - neither dh nor me has that anywhere in the ancestry!!!  

If you use dh/dp sperm and go separately, you each need to take two days off (actually your dh could conceivably do it in a day from Heathrow I think - a very long day!), BUT you can count Saturday as a day, or even Sunday sometimes I think, but obviously you have to go when the embies are ready for you, so you can't make it happen on a weekend day, it's luck of the draw when you ovulate.  If you are using dh/dp sperm and you want to make a trip of it for the two of you, you'd be there for more like 5 days minimum, with him producing at the start of your mini-holiday and you receiving at the end of it.  If you use donor sperm, then again, it's just the two days.  You can fly out of Gatwick at lunchtime-ish, get there early evening and go to a hotel nearby.  You go to the clinic in the morning, and you can catch the mid-afternoon plane home, getting in to Gatwick early evening.  That's on Easy jet.  You can also go from Heathrow, but the flights are different times and often involve a changeover somewhere like Geneva.  You can go from Manchester direct, again with Easyjet, but would have to stay there for two nights, taking 3 days out of your work schedule.  

Going for donor embryos/eggs abroad is quite 'matter of fact' in some ways.  They don't make a lot of theatre about it, just get on with it, (I suspect British clinics charge a lot and make a meal of it to justify charging a lot).  Penny gives you as much treatment as you need without charging for every minute of her time, and like I said before, really does think about your case and what protocol you might need.  She will have you on the minimum amount of drugs she thinks necessary.  If she suggests a hysteroscopy, or a test for hidden chlamydia, just run with it.  You'll be glad you did.  

If you want to know what other people think, just jump on our thread and ask the others whether they think you should go there, but like I said before, you must think through the moral/spiritual side of donor eggs and consider the pitfalls first.  

And I meant to say, EVERY donor egg mother loves that baby just as much as she did her genetic baby (where they have, like me, had a genetic baby in the past).  There is no issue with bonding ever in all my time reading these threads.  

B xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Angel_Delight (Jan 23, 2011)

Thank you so much for all of your advice, I'll check out the links.  It's a relief that you feel the same love for the baby as you would your own, that's been my main worry.  I've not had my own child either, so it's all a bit daunting!


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

Tra - there are several threads on the bonding/feeling issue - have a browse through
I don't have my own genetic children (and I'm single so mine are double donor) but I honestly couldn't love my boys any more than I do   
best of luck
Suitcase
x


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## Mistletoe (Holly) (Jan 1, 2007)

I think it is unfair to say that egg sharer's eggs are less good - these women are often people with blocked tubes or male factor needing ICSI - nothing wrong with their eggs at all!


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## bangles (Nov 4, 2009)

Possibly Hazel.  It would be wrong to presume that all 'egg sharer' eggs are less good - they could be great, of course.  I have never done this scheme so I don't know how it is run exactly.  Are you as the recipient allowed to say that you will only have the eggs of someone whose tubes are blocked or have male factor though?  Also, if you have male factor, and fail to get pregnant, you can't presume that that is the only reason there is a problem, as the eggs have not been tested with different sperm.  I don't know how much choice you get or are allowed to know that much about your donor's medical history on that scheme.  But also, I would wonder that since women going through ivf have often reached that stage when they are older, egg sharers may have an older profile as a whole than egg donors.  I would not discount egg sharer eggs, but I wonder whether statistics would show that they are a successful as eggs from younger egg donors.  It is just something I would take into account if I were choosing what to do.  B xxxxxxxxx


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

Tra,  It is am emotional minefield, but I am sure if you look through the donor conception boards here you will see that there are lots of people here who have been through the same dilemma and can reassure you that you will love your child no matter where the egg came from. You might also find this article quite interesting: http://www.bionews.org.uk/page_46274.asp

Egg sharing schemes are quite strictly controlled by the clinics who operate them. Most are limited to 35 and under, and they also require the donors to meet strict criteria regarding things like FSH, BMI, full screening including genetic karyotyping. Most will impose a rule that you can only donate half if you produce over 8 eggs, and most will only allow you to share if you have 3 or less failed cycles. One would also assume that, after a failed egg share cycle, most clinics would look after the first cycle at the quality of your eggs in both the recipient and sharer and decide if they would be suitable for continuing on the scheme. 
They aren't just limited to tubal/male factors - I egg shared with significant issues including PCO, endometriosis and mild immune problems as well as mild MF and a blocked tube - and I did it 4 times between 32 and 34 years old. On 1 occasion it resulted in a live birth for my recipient, on 2 others a biochem pg and a missed m/c. I never got the results from the last time so don't know. I got pg twice (m/c once) on those cycles. On most cycles I was told the embryos (both mine and recipients) had been top quality.
I think one of the advantages to consider with egg sharing is that the donor is not only giving you eggs but that she is wanting to maximise her chances of getting pregnant too so you can be fairly confident she has been doing all the "right things" with her diet/supplements etc. to get the best possible quality of eggs. I can tell you that most egg sharers are very concerned about whether they will get enough/have good enough quality eggs so as not to let down their recipient as well. On the other hand, because of the nature of egg sharing, it's not usual to get lots and lots of eggs - you might have anything from 4 to 10 at most and some clinics will triple share if they collect more than, say, 15. The practical upshot is, you may only get enough for one cycle and not have spares in the freezer, meaning chances are, when you go back for a sibling, you may have a different donor. If siblings from the same donor are important to you, that's something to think about.

Straight donor eggs, quite often you will get more and some for freezing (and sometimes you can have sibling tx with the same donor if they are set up to provide that). However if you are not using a known donor yourself and relying on the clinic to match you, you have no way of knowing what the donor's lifestyle is and whether they are looking after themselves/their eggs. I am sure a lot of reputable clinics probably are selective over who they chose as donors, or offer coaching/guidance to ensure they are maximising chances... but some don't - to some it's just a numbers and money game. I guess it comes down to doing your homework and making sure you pick a reputable clinic you have a degree of trust in. And with all things, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is! 

You don't have to go abroad for donor eggs - I think most people do because costs and waiting lists mean it's often the quicker/cheaper option but it's definitely worth looking into UK clinics. I know some have no/short waiting lists now (DarlingtonLWC comes to mind as no waiting list). 
The advantage of UK clinics is that we do have strict controls and regulation so you can be reasonably sure that statistics are true and procedures are carefully controlled. That's not to say they are not in non UK clinics but that's more homework to find out.  The other advantage of UK clinics is mandatory counselling for donor issues. Also you need to consider that your child will be able to track their donor at some point in the future if conceived in the UK. If you go abroad, donor traceability is much less likely (depending where you go). Whether that's important to you or not is something to consider (there's a couple of good threads in Donor Conception about telling/not telling the child that you might want to look through). 
For UK clinics, you can find a list that offers donor treatment here: http://www.hfea.gov.uk/ (enter the parameters for your search in and once you've narrowed it down, have a look on FF and see if there's a thread for that clinic here and what people are saying about it to get a feel for things there.

For clinics outside the UK, it's mostly word of mouth. If you look around FF you will start to get an idea of places that offer donor treatment and which ones are "good" and which ones fall into the "too good to be true" category. And members will - as bangles has done - recommend clinics they've attended, particularly if they've had a good experience there (and the best reviews always come from those who have a good experience despite the outcome, not just those who got a baby.  ). This is a really good way of finding out about clinics; if you have lots of people saying a clinic is good and posting real time honest opinions then you can see yourself whether you would be happy having treatment there.

Last of all, we're all different with different needs from a clinic. You must go with the one that suits you both financially, emotionally and practically. Do lots of research and pick carefully. 

C~x

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## bangles (Nov 4, 2009)

Tra - Caz is so right - it is an emotional and moral minefield.  I happen to think that whichever way you go, you have to make some concessions and it's just a matter of deciding which concessions matter most (or least) to you.  I will be honest with you and say that I am really bothered about the fact that by going abroad I will not be able to give any potential children I have any information about their genetic parentage.  I happen to think that ancestry is an important issue and I wish things were different.  I am just hoping that life in our house is so good, that they will forgive me.  I think if I'd felt I had time on my side, I would have looked into getting an altruistic egg donor in this country, but the waiting lists were long at the time and I didn't feel happy about egg sharing, probably not so much for the egg quality issue, but because I could not have 'shared' my eggs under those circumstances, so I was not happy to be the recipient either.  

I think it helps to come to terms with things if you ask yourself the question 'could I donate eggs under those circumstances?  Would it have been okay for me?'  And if I think about myself as a student in my twenties, if someone had asked me would I give my eggs, I probably would have given them. And I think the payment abroad (usually 800 euros) is about fair.  The boys I went to university with commonly made about £400 doing drugs trials from time to time (eek - bet they regret it now), and £70 for donating to sperm banks.  But if I were suffering infertility and someone asked me to egg share, I could not have risked a situation where I failed and another woman ended up bringing up 'my child'.  I think that possibility would have haunted me.  But that's just me, and there are lots of ways of looking at things and I'm sure egg sharing works for lots of people - must be great when both the donor and the recipient get pregnant.  But I just couldn't be the recipient in a case where I couldn't be the donor if that makes sense.  

The treatment of the egg donors is key too.  When I first went abroad I spent a lot of time thinking about the treatment of donors, and read up my clinic's pages on egg donors to make sure I was happy about how they were treated.  When it didn't work, I went somewhere else, which was cheaper, and I have to confess, that with my 'baby goggles' on, I didn't really check out about how donors were treated there.  I had kind of 'okayed' it for myself on the basis of what I read about the other clinic.  Which was wrong.

I have every confidence in the way donors are treated at Serum based on everything I have heard and everything I know about the staff there.  The only thing I would say in response to what Caz said about getting siblings for a potential child, is that a lot of the clinics abroad (the good ones I suspect) go to great efforts not to over-stimulate donors, because they do not want to compromise their donors' health, and because they believe that less stimulation leads to better quality eggs.  Which means that I would say, in my experience, that the majority of donor egg cycles do NOT lead to spare embryos being frozen.  Which is not to say it doesn't happen - one lady on our thread last week had a baby girl from the same batch of embryos that gave her her son a couple of years ago, I think - roughly 2 years anyway.  BUT this is more the exception than the rule.  Furthermore, the success rate with frozen embryos across the board tends to be about 30%, so she was phenomenally lucky.  But if I were you I would not choose to go for straight donor treatment on this basis alone as the chances are so tenouous.

The point Caz makes about success rates is really pertinent.  There are clinics out there who have been claiming the same success rate for 2 years!  What a coincidence it would be if the same rate applied consistently for two years!  In the end, you have to go by your eyes, and one of the great things about FF is that if you are interested in a clinic, you can read back the threads to the year dot and get a feeling for how many people are getting BFP or BFN.  Before I went to Serum I made a sort of spreadsheet and did some statistical analysis, and yep, they were good!

You must feel like you've been plunged into a confusing new world, but although so many people begin this journey with the tremendous disappointment of being told that their eggs won't get them a baby, they always jump for joy as soon as that second line on the pregnancy test tells them they got their baby.  In fact a lady I met on here who had premature menopause and now has a lovely little boy - well I tell you it's uncanny, but he looks just like her!  She couldn't adore him more.  B xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## lauratIB (Oct 21, 2011)

Hi griffi

I also have trouble with conceiving. And planning my program in Ukraine.
I never think about Spain. And don't know why! Let me know what clinic have chosen.
It would be useful information for me.

Thanks in advance

Best wishes to all of you in your journey


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## Mistletoe (Holly) (Jan 1, 2007)

Laura - where are you from?


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## Kay123 (Aug 6, 2011)

Hi Angel_Delight 

I see you posted this almost a month ago so you may have all the replies you need by now. I have been a member of fertility frimds for months now and have found the support amazzzing. I did not see your post til now as I decided I needed to give myself a few weeks break from all efrtility issues after two failed IVF's earler this year I too have decided to go the donor route both ways... due to my hubby having had cancer and now my age (40).

Initially the decission was quite hard but once we had made the decission we both felt such a sense of relief and excitement.I have had one donor treatment which was unsuccessful but now am busy preparing myself emotionally, physically and yes saving again! We found the most beautiful donor previously through a donor agency in South Africa called Gift Ov Life who not only assisted us every step of the way in finding our lovely donor but who gave me so much emotional support while I was in South Africa and my hubby here in the UK. I found my donor within a week and within a week of that she started her meds. 

Although unsuccessful last time I am busy preparing for my next treatment in March/April next year and once again I will be going through Gift Ov Life because they are just so tremendous. They have over 200 donors to choose from so it really is quite easy to find a really good match. What I also liked about their service is thaey provide an incredible amount of detailed information not only on the donor but also on the donors family which we found a big help. They are associated with the top three fertility clinics in South Africa. I have decided to use the Cape Fetility Clinic for my next treatment as I have heard so many excellent things about them from both successfull recipients and doctors. They have a very high success rate and are very quick to respond to emails and answer any questions. So hope this helps it can be a long and exhausting road but I really believe that if you persevere through the donor route you will ultimately succeed. With every best wish to you


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