# ICSI implantation failure - help needed please!!



## pepppizz

Hi

We have had two failed ICSI attempts in the last year. Both times we were told how well everything was going and 2 good looking embyros were transferred each time. On the second time we went to day 5 before having them transferred. However, both times nothing happened and I somehow knew it hadn't worked.

Recently we got a letter from the clinic saying that they could only really put the two failures down to "bad luck" and inviting us to try again whenever we wanted without any consultation.

I feel somehow this explanation is a bit vague and wonder how many cycles I could go through with "bad luck" playing a part each time. I know it can take many cycles to have success but am wondering if I should be requesting further testing first? If anyone has any advice I would be so grateful. I really don't know what to do but am conscious of time ticking along. 

Thank you so much :


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## purplejr

Hi,

Sorry to hear about your unsucessful attempts. We ended up having 3 attempts at ICSI ourselves and did manage to get pregnant on the 3rd so don't give up hope yet. We were offered no further tests inbetween like immune tests or anything but I guess we got lucky.

Sending you lots of       and      

xx


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## karenanna

Hi

Sorry to hear about your BFNs - as you will see I am in a similar situation to you - I seem to get good quality embryos and they get to blastocyst stage - I find the not knowing why my embryos don't implant the most unsettling.

I would recommend reading - "Is your body baby friendly' by Alan E Beer - there is a link on the books section of this site. He gives lots of food for thought on failed attempts and immune issues.

There are also lots of tests you can have over and above the standard ones - I used this link on immune testing, prepared by someone on this site-

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=82741.0

I have had a number of immune tests and they all came back clear for me - however I was pleased I had them.

I've also attached a link about the number of attempts for IVF - http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=199376.0

Hope this helps and best wishes Karenanna


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## Clomidia

Our first ICSI was also put down to "bad luck" so we decided to go again, same protocol for the 2nd. If this one also fails we have decided to take a few months out, and then will consider a change of clinic. We're very happy with our clinic at the moment but do think it's worth a change if we have two lots of "bad luck", if only just to get a fresh perspective, and will maybe then look at further testing. 

I wish you GOOD luck for your next one


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## ♥AngelBumps♥

Hiya there,

Sorry to hear your sad news. Sending you lots of love... and hopefully some help and advice with implantation...

What everyone else is saying is right... some clinics. Honestly. I do wish they'd be more open with 'what went wrong' when they are so forthcoming with 'what went right!' I'm surprised they can even be bothered to say "See you in three months!!"

The only advice I would give, when it comes to implantation failure, is maybe some supplements can help you with this:

Beta Carotene is a pigment in plants that is converted into vitamin A. The corpus luteum is very high in beta carotene, so it may be cardinal in the regulation of the reproductive cycle hormones. (Normal Vitamin A (RETINOL from animals is NOT GOOD for pregnant women. HOWEVER, some Vit A is needed and it is thought that getting Vit A from betacarotene (veggies and fruit) is the best source, rather than retinol, which is from animals).
Sources: peas, broccoli, carrots, spinach, and sweet potatoes. 

Vitamin B1 (thiamin)
Needed for ovulation and implantation.
Sources: molasses, brewer's yeast, whole grains, nuts, brown rice, organ and other meats, egg yolks, fish, poultry, legumes, and seeds.
Dosage: RNI 0.8 mg per day (women) 

Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine)
B6 is used to treat luteal phase defects because of it encourages the production of progesterone. I think low progesterone rate means low pregnancy rates.
Sources: molasses, brewer's yeast, whole grains, nuts, brown rice, organ and other meats, egg yolks, fish, poultry, legumes, seeds, and green leafy veggies.
Dosage: RNI 1.2 mg per day, but up to 50 mg may be used per day.
Note: Zinc is needed for its absorption. 

Zinc
Deficiencies of Zinc are quite common. Zinc is important for the cell division in the fetus, producing good quality eggs, and maintaining the menstrual cycle. Alcohol and the contraceptive pill deplete zinc in the body. Folic acid, tea, coffee, high fiber intake, and iron may inhibit absorption. Vitamin B6 and C may aid absorption.
Sources: lean meat, fish, seafood, chicken, eggs, pumpkin and sunflower seeds, rye, oats, whole grains, legumes, ginger, parsley, mushrooms, brewer's yeast, and wheat germ.
Dosage: RNI 7 mg per day (women), up to 30 mg may be recommended. 

Vitamin E (given to the man) - has been shown in studies to increase sperm function and therefore increase pregnancy rates.
Vitamin E (given to the woman) strengthens the outer shell of the egg and helps with implantation.
Folic acid- this strengthens the inner part of the egg.
Vitamin B12- makes folic acid work better
Zinc - this repairs any of the egg that may have been damaged and also helps with implantation.
False unicorn- This helps the egg with implantation and helps to maintain a pregnancy. V. hard to get hold of as plant is endangered species.

Coenzyme Q10
Important for energy production. Levels of CoQ10 are lower in a woman who have experienced a recent miscarriage. ICSI fertilization rates may rise when taking this supplement. It also improves blood flow. Dosage: talk to your healthcare professional. Although, I've heard people take no more than 75mg a day, spaced throughout the day (i.e.: 30mgs 2 to 3 times per day).

Low dose (75mg) Aspirin
Increases blood flow to the uterus. It has also been shown to lower the number of NK Cells in the uterus (as it is a NSAID)

Fish oils and vitamin E are really good for the lining of the womb and can help to build a great environment over time. BE CAREFUL if taking Vitamin E & Aspirin or other blood thinners.., as obv they thin your blood!

Pineapple is NOT an old wives tale. My sister-in-law had 10 rounds of IVF treatment and got pregnant every time by taking pineapple. Unfortunately, she lost every single one of those pregnancies and this is because not many people know how to take it correctly, it helps aid implantation BUT in some parts of the world it is used to bring on early LABOUR and PERIODS!!! So, take as so:

1. purchase organic pineapple on day of transfer
2. cut the pineapple (INCLUDING the core!!) into 5 sections
3. On the day of the transfer, about 4+ hours afterwards, eat your first section
4. For the next 4 days, eat one of the sections

Some people have done this 2 days before transfer, and on transfer day and then the following 2 days. NO MORE THAN THIS.

FIVE DAY PINEAPPLE LIMIT!!!

Pineapple contains bromelain. Bromelain is a proteolytic enzyme that breaks up proteins that *inhibit* embryo implantation. Consuming a whole pineapple (focusing on the core as it has the highest concentration of Bromelain) during a fertility cycle can be beneficial. HOWEVER people taking pineapple juice and eating pineapple the ENTIRE 2WW is a HUGE NO NO. Show HUGE caution about eating the pineapple for more than 5 days (don't do it) and using anything but a fresh cut pineapple is pointless for this. However, ALL types of pineapple contain Selenium and that is GREAT for your lining and implantation.

PLEASE NOTE: too much vitamin C can dry up cervical mucus, so only use vitamin C with caution at no more than 1000mg or so - this would include your pineapple intake. Vitamin C has been shown to improve IVF pregnancy rates when both male and female have been taking it. Take Vitamin C with bioflavinoids and rose hips to help maintain a pregnancy.

Grapefruit Juice:
Grapefruit helps nutralize the ph of your cm. Some women have hostile cm, and grapefruit just is supposed to normalize the acidity (but not induce ovulation). Drinking grapefruit juice while trying to conceive has long been recommended by mothers, doctors, and midwives to aide in the fertilization process. The grapefruit juice is said to help thin the cervical mucus so that the sperm can travel easily from the vagina, through the uterus and into the fallopian tubes to meet the egg. The egg white consistency cervical mucus is known to be the most fertile in every woman, but not every woman can product this type of cervical mucus on her own, and so many generations have turned to grapefruit juice.

Evening Primrose Oil:
Evening primrose oil (EPO) is a favorite fertility aid for women. Historically considered a medicinal "cure-all", evening primrose oil is one of the more popular herbal supplements for female hormonal balance and fertility. Women who are trying-to-conceive use evening primrose oil to improve the quality of cervical mucus - or make the cervical mucus more fertile. However, evening primrose oil offers a wide array of purported benefits, including treating many ailments like breast pain, hot flashes, premenstrual symptoms (PMS), skin disorders, rheumatoid arthritis, and hormonal imbalance. Note that Evening Primrose Oil should only be taken from menstruation to ovulation, as EPO may cause uterine contractions. The dosage taken should be 1500mg to 3000mg per day. Since essential fatty acids are important, you can take flax seed oil in place of Evening Primrose Oil after ovulation takes place. STOP when you know you are pregnant.

L-Arginine (up to 4 g./day!) helps increase blood flow to the ovaries.
L-arginine - L-arginine is an amino acid which has shown promise in increasing ovarian response, endometrial receptivity, and pregnancy rates in IVF patients who supplemented in large doses (16 grams) of L-arginine.

Alpha Lipoic Acid:
One thing that was suggested to me was R+ Alpha Lipoic Acid to improve egg quality. It's not the same as plain old alpha lipoic acid...it's different and apparently in a more usable form for the cell mitochondria and is supposed to improve cell functions.

Royal jelly and bee propolis
These superfoods increase the quality and quantity of eggs. Royal jelly is the food produced by bees which turns an ordinary bee into a queen, capable of producing as many as 2,000 eggs per day. You should take this supplement for at least two months before beginning IVF procedures. Royal jelly is the hormonal stimulant used by queen bees to ensure plenty of offspring. You should take this supplement daily in order to achieve the best results. However, if you are, or think that you may be allergic to bees, stay away from this and all other bee products.

All these things are good in moderation and on the advice of your Dr./professional, but without good blood flow to the uterus and good egg AND sperm quality, the embryo can have chromosomal abnormalities and, even with the best treatment, wont implant. And, if the uterus is not a 'luscious' area for the embryo to snuggle into and implant, it wont.

All this info is out there on the internet and needs to be checked THOROUGHLY (please research them first), but most of these things are tried and tested and will hopefully help you next time with implantation.

And I really hope you do get that magic BFP. Keep trying, but as the other ladies have said, get some test if you're not happy and get that clinic to answer your questions - you are paying them their wages  ! It's not bad luck...

Good look. xx I'm  for you. x


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## ♥AngelBumps♥

Just found some more info on pineapple...
Quote:
Bromelain is an enzyme found (mostly) in the core of pineapples. I took mine in pill form (got it from Whole Foods/health food stores)...just one in the morning. The timing is kind of important to its function. If you take it on an empty stomach, it has anti-inflammatory properties (kind of like aspirin but without the side effects of aspirin like bleeding & whatnot) & so, supposedly, helps with implantation (or for someone who has clotting disorders). If, however, you take it on a full stomach or with food, it helps break down proteins.

So, I took 1 tab in the morning on an empty stomach (I didn't follow the directions on the bottle...partly because I wanted some of the benefit but didn't want to overdo it). I've taken it in the luteal phase of natural cycles but during the IVF, I took it the whole time. (I should say I also took a baby aspirin, prenatal vitamins, folic acid & B-complex; the baby aspirin I stopped a few days before ER).
Unquote.

To be honest, not sure I will take it... need the selenium though! Brazil nuts will do just fine!


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## kitten77

angelbumps - do you take ALL these?


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## ♥AngelBumps♥

Hi Kitten77!
Yes, I take them all! A batch in the morning and a batch with my lunch later on. I will stop some of them now, as they have no benefit unless I'm incubating my eggs!! I had to build right up to this though, I didn't just pop them all over night! Speaking about popping...
I had my egg collection yesterday, got 23.... Just waiting on my call now, hope some of them have fertilized.


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## pepppizz

Thank you so much for all your replies. It made me feel immediately better to know I am not alone!
I have had a bit of time out and I think am decided not to rush into a 3rd ICSI straight away. I am reading Dr Beer's book now and will think more carefully about my diet too if I do go for a 3rd. I may also look at other clinics.
Best of luck to you all on your journeys. I will be thinking about you.


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## LadyN

Jesus Joney! Angelbumps you sound like a walking holland and barrett!  

I have a glass of full fat milk in the morning with my folic acid and eat my 5 a day every day ive also dabbled in a little acupuncture this cycle too but other than that ive kept it simple.

Im know you said you had to build these up but crikey that sounds like a lot of pills to pop twice a day!
Does your clinic know you take all this?

I would highly recommend "Is your body baby friendly" although parts of the book are very technical so i tend to read a few pages here and there. Its definately not a bed time reading kind of book. Very factual and intense me thinks!

LadyN x


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## dippygeek

Hi AngelBumps

Just wanted to say thanks for posting all that information, it must have taken a while.  It helps to know what each thing is for.  I'm doing the Foresight Programme where they take a hair analysis and then advise on what vits to take.  

Best of luck to you all

x


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## Lisa Wishes

Hi, have you considered immune testing?

Best wishes, 

Lisa


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