# 7 years of hell has come to a head



## Mistletoe (Holly) (Jan 1, 2007)

I have not been on here for a while.
Briefly, hubby and I have been TTC for 7 years. Lots got in the way of us seeking help when we realised there was a problem. (not one but many major life issues - bereavement, redundancy etc - lots of stress). We finally did go for help 2.5 years ago. We saw the GP and she did a few tests. Hubby had no sperm at all (despite having a child in previous relationship). Bit of a shock.
We went to a clinic and after many months of waiting had a lap and dye (blocked tubes for no apparent reason).
Many more months of waiting and hubby had a biopsy which showed maturation arrest. Many more months of waiting and here we are now. A second biopsy was done on Monday and 4 tissue samples were taken, macerated and examined - not one sperm. 
I was not very hopeful, but up to now there has been a glimmer, however small of having a genetic child with hubby. He has completely dismissed using a donor for the last 2 years and will not discuss my needs - so I have felt isolated and unheard. I have been worrying constantly about whether I will have to chose between my marriage and my baby. I cannot bear the thought of never being a mother, which is what everyone is pressurising me to do.

Luckily, we got to see a counselor on the evening of the bad news. I have to say I cried for most of the hour and still am reduced to tears at the slightest thing. I feel pretty exhausted. 

She was excellent and read our all our problems like a book in about 5 minutes of talking. I can see working with her will be very positive. I wish I had gone earlier as this has been very hard to cope with alone. Hubby thought we were going there for him to be told about donors. She did not do that. She told us we need to go through a process of grief for what we have lost before we can even see that there are other options. 
I know that it is a severe bereavement, but have been confused and frightened by the depth of feeling and how to deal with it. It is a very long drawn out bereavement with no closure. I felt it so acutely in the summer when a person at work lost twins born prematurely, and she got loads of support from everyone and six months paid maternity leave to get over the tragedy. Of course it was tragic, but what I feel is just as bad. I have to soldier on and perform at work. No one understands.

I get from MIL, "just accept it and get on without children". All our friends are having babies. It is another stab in the heart every time.
When my mother died and I was crying at her grave, no one would have come up to me and said "mothers are not all they are cracked up to be", but they seem to think it is acceptable to say that to me replacing the word mothers with children. Do they realise how much they hurt us?
I am sick of grieving and worrying about the future. I want to have hope and someone with me who will make the best of a situation and try (at least talk about) an alternative, wholeheartedly. Not just dismiss it. The counselor explained that until we have grieved for our loss properly and achieved closure, we will not be able to move on. Our homework is to write a letter about what we have lost and our feelings to each other, but only read it once and do not discuss the contents. We also have to have a ceremony. Burn a candle for the baby we cannot have and once the candle is finished, light a new bigger candle for new beginnings.

Why does it have to be like this? I just want to be happy and hold my baby - is that too much to ask? Maybe it is?


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## Myownangel (Aug 24, 2005)

Dear HAzel,
I'm so sorry you are hurting so bad right now. Believe me I know what it is like when you say "It is a very long drawn out bereavement with no closure." No one seems to understand this unending grief – the longing for a baby to hold. It is real and it draws a shadow over so many parts of our lives and even our identities as women. People around us often don't help - with the crass things they say. Your MIL probably said what she did because she couldn't face discussing it with you (perhaps she has unresolved issues.... you never know, cos people don't talk about it). It can be a very lonely place and so I'm glad you have found a counsellor you feel you connect with. Really use the sessions woith her - lean on her and pour out all your thoughts and feelings. It feels all tangled up and messy right now - but in time you'll get a little perspective on things.
Come and post here as much as you need to - the ladies are very supportive.
Bernie xxx


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## Yamoona (Nov 7, 2005)

Hi Hazel, so sorry to read your post. This is such a difficult time for you as like your counsellor says you both have to grieve. My DH also has a zero sperm count due to a condition called CBAVD. He does produce it but it has no way of getting out of the testes so he has to have it surgically removed. This is painful, expensive and I have always felt that his sperm probably has gentic problems due to his condition. Needless to say neither ICSI's have implanted and due to a bad emotional reaction to the drugs I won't do it again. I have an underactive thyroid but that is under control and also mild endo but apart from that I 'medically' can have children. I use that term because I have never been pregnant and just because on paper I should be able to get pregnant doesn't mean I will as those who have unexplained infertility will tell you. 

When we first found out about DH condition we were about to get married. I had the choice to walk away but I didn't and I tell you why. My DH is very good to me and I love him very much, initially whilst going through the grieving process things were b***** tough, there was a lot of anger from him and fear that I would leave, he also point blanked refused to use a donor sperm. We didn't have counselling due to funds but I dealt with my grief by attending one of Maggie's workshops and then helped DH through his. This time last year life together was pretty bleak but now I am looking forward to spending Christmas with my husband because we have got through the most blackest of times and come out the other end stronger. Every now and then he has a moment when he could be better behaved and so do I but I know that he is still grieving and take him through it. He also now wants to try donor IUI before we think about adoption. So they do see things from your point of view eventually, just give yourselves time, we don't need all the answers right now, one step at a time. 

There have been times when I felt like running off and having a one night stand but I knew I would loose my husband if I did and if I left him to try and have a baby with someone else who's to say I would find such a wonderful man again and I could end up bringing up a child on my own and don't want that. Only one person has said to me that she couldn't stay with a man that couldn't give her children but then she could never stay with her children's fathers and is a single mum so it is difficult for her to see that an intimate relationship can have much greater rewards that having a child. This is not something you will be able to see at the moment but time is a wonderful healer and you are doing a great thing by going to counselling together. Don't be afraid to express how you feel but do try and assure each other that the love is still there. I wish you all the best. xx


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## Mistletoe (Holly) (Jan 1, 2007)

It just got a whole lot worse.

I just mentioned our "homework" and asked when we would plan to have the ceremony.

First of all he acted like he did not have a clue what I was talking about. He said that he did not understand what the woman was talking about and that he could not believe that such rubbish was on the NHS. He said that all of what she said was batty and made him feel a whole lot worse and that he did not want to have a ceremony.

I said that I thought on Monday that we were finally getting somewhere with all the deep seated issues that need to be dealt with. He said that he wanted to shut everything away and not worry about it.
I said that it is festering away and needs to be dealt with and that I felt like I was tiptoeing around a volcano that was about to erupt.
I cannot go on like this. My life is on hold until he deals with his issues.

Well then he stormed off in the car. I do not know where he has gone or if he will be back.
Right now I feel like I have had it with all of this cr*p and need to get away from him and all of his issues before it kills me. Another part of me wants to see it through and get him to realise that he needs to deal with this stuff and stop forcing it into the bottle. Trouble is, I am not really sure how much has been forced into this bottle already, and if I take the lid off, will I survive? I do want us to be a happy family. That is all I have ever wanted.

Why won't he let the therapist help us? Why can't he see that this needs to be done? Is he a lost cause? I have been putting up with his issues for 9 years now. He brought a lot to our marriage that wasn't dealt with, and much more has been added (probably because the old stuff was still there). It is like a rolling stone gathering moss. Anything that happens that needs to be talked about he shuts me up and says it is in the past. Well it is not in my past until it is talked about. I tried to get him to go to a marriage course at one point and it was exactly the same. I was positive after session one and then it fell apart and was worse than before. I went to relate once and it was worse than before. Why did I think this would be any different? I never learn. Perhaps I should just leave it to the next poor woman who tries to help him. God help her. I have had enough. I am not strong enough to go on. I cannot live like this having nothing that I want out of life.


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## carol d (May 1, 2007)

Hazel - I have just read your post and it broke my heart  
I have no wise words of wisdom to give you as myself and my DH are going through similar thing at moment but we do talk to keep ourselves sane. 
Just look after yourself you are a fantastic person and DH knows that but he needs his time to adjust to everything.
Wishing you the best in whatever you do.
Carol xx


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## Myownangel (Aug 24, 2005)

Dear Hazel,
Your partner is having a very 'male' reaction. Have you read 'Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus'? There are a lot of truths in that book. As women we need to talk and talk and talk things through. We sometimes go round in circles, but we feel closer by doing it and we 'work through' problems that way. Men are brought up to be 'problem solvers' - it's just the way they think. So if you give them a problem that they cannot solve (such as childlessness) they get panicky. Sometimes they retreat into their 'cave'  (that is what your partner did when he stormed off). Men like to mull things over on their own - they don't discuss things with their friends. They often go and do something physical (digging the garden, fixing a shelf that sort of thing). They kind of shut it out for a bit.
Problems arise when we as women need the closeness and the talking and our man needs the space and the not talking. There are two solutions to this and only you know how you feel in your heart and what you will do. One is to give him the space he needs. Be patient - let him do his 'male' thing, understand that it is because he is really hurting that he needs this space. Let it go and in time he will come back to you and you will be able to talk. The second choice is to say 'enough' - that your relationship isn't really worth the effort. Although bear in mind that you are so raw that you might not be in a good frame of mind to make this decision.
I strongly recommend you read "Men are from Mars...' as it has saved many of my friends' relationships!
Best wishes,
Bernie xxx


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Hazel my lovely

Bernie has made some interesting points there - men do feel the need to go off and digest the information/wisdom that has been given to them.

It sounds to me like this is a knee jerk reaction brought on by him actually facing up to stuff. If he is used to not having to face and deal with things, then I suppose one can only expect him to react in this way and cut and run when things get too much to think about.

I am so sorry that this is so painful and devastating for you and that you feel you have been left to deal with all of this on your own, but I would urge you to hang in there. Nine years is a long time to be with someone to throw it all away - and you are in a vulnerable place yourself at the moment.

Yes, the session has probably made him feel worse - because its been the first time he has actually faced things head on, and yes, these things do hurt - but the problem is that if we don't express the feelings we feel and bury them they come back to bite us firmly on the bum when least expected. 

Know this must all be driving you to your wits end honey, but try and think of it this way - you have us to talk to, hubby has no-one and if he has had a lifetime of experiences of not communicating or feeling he cannot allow himself to feel these sad feelings then its going to take some time for him to be able to feel safe to release them.

Sending you a massive   and letting you know you most certainly are not on your own, and that there are others out there who do truly understand where you're coming from.

Hang in there sweetheart, we're rooting for you
Love
Emcee xxx


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Hello Hazel,

I don't know if I can say anything that will make sense, but I want to hold out my hand to you.

The lovely ladies have said wise words about the differences between many men and women in dealing with major issues. IF is an issue that we do not expect to deal with and so it is no wonder we find it so difficult to know how to deal with it as partners or as part of a wider family who share no similar experience.

I wonder of your DH was not ready for the counselling so soon (same day!) after the final confirmation that the biological reason for your IF was down to his sperm problem? (Forgive me if I have not understood the medical facts.) Maybe he needs more time to process this information? Despite your joint history, it was no doubt difficult to comprehend as he had had a child in the past.

You say that you are torn between working this out and walking out. As Bernie says, maybe you are feeling too raw to make a decision now?
Maybe if DH will not return to the counsellor you could go on your own? At least the cousellor is somebody who will listen at a time you feel otherwise "unheard?" 

I sincerely hope thatt the 2 of you will find a way forward.

love, Jq xxx


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## wouldloveababycat (Mar 21, 2004)

Hazel; from someone who has had counselling I can say that although sometimes they do set you 'homework' sometimes you are not ready for it; everyone can deal with things at a different pace, it doesn't mean that he won't deal with it but no-one can force him to do so before he is ready to and it could be more damaging for your relationship to do so; so just take some time out and get your relationship back on track; he is probably feeling incredibly insecure right now and like you incredibly sad the best thing you can do is just make it clear that you love him for being him not whether he can produce sperm and I am sure he will work through this.. 
Good luck x
Cat


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