# Any single women used donor eggs for LO no. 2 after own eggs for LO no. 1?



## Bethany915 (Aug 1, 2010)

Hi ladies

I know this overlaps with some other donor egg threads but thought I would start this as a new topic since I have some specific queries. I already have an LO conceived with a KD and my own eggs. I would love a sibling for him. Currently trying a few cycles of IUI and will then (having learnt loads from this site) try a few more months of AI at home with supplements etc to boost egg quality. However, if all that doesn't work, I might consider IVF. By that stage, I will be 43, maybe pushing 44. My AMH is so low that my consultant tells me I would not respond to stims. My funds are really limited - I think the max I could afford in the UK would be 2 cycles of IVF.

So a few questions I am considering:

1) Is it worth trying my own eggs on a natural cycle (e.g. at Create) - or would that just be sending good money down the drain?

2) If I consider DE with KD's sperm, is it possible to get donor eggs in the UK (preferably London) without a ridiculously long wait? I have a friend who has been on the waiting list at one of the London clinics - I think the Lister - for 7 years and they have still not found a match for her (she went to Barcelona in the meantime). Was she just unlucky?

3) If I did DEIVF in the UK, how much would it cost? And is my age still against me - or does that become irrelevant once I have DE?

4) If I went abroad for DEIVF (which I know would be cheaper), I doubt I could persuade KD to come too (he has a fear of flying) so I might then be looking at anon (or ID release) donor sperm. In this case, would I be better to try frozen embryo transfer (I know it's cheaper). Are there any benefits to DEIVF with fresh donor sperm?

5) The big question - if I conceived LO#2 with DE, would I love the second child any less because he/she was not with my eggs, whereas LO#1 was? And would LO#2 be likely to think that I loved him or her less, even if it was not the case? (I would want to be open about the circumstances of conception so both LOs would know the full story - at an appropriate age, of course).

6) Another big question - LO#1 knows his father and sees him regularly. If LO#2 had anon donor as his/her father (or even ID release), would it create a tension between the two children that LO#2 had no-one to call his daddy whereas LO#1 does?

I'm not expecting you lovely ladies to be able to answer all my questions (to be honest, it just helps to get them down on paper  ) - but if anyone has any experience of this, I would love to hear your views.

Of course, I am hoping to be lucky before I reach the DE stage - but it's always good to have a Plan B  .

B xx


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

Hi Bethany 

I have pm'd you, but CRM have faily low UK waits for DE about 6 months, although it is growing in popularity so lists may get longer. I have also been to Barcelona- you could your KD there by boat/land/train if he refuses to fly or get him to go the Drs and get some Xanex for pre flying nerves! If you really wanted your KD's sperm and he won't fly you get the sperm shipped over to the European clinic.  (there is a laways a way round perceived obstacles!!).

I would say that if you are considering going with your KD to a clinic, I would go as 'partners' or else you will have an automatic 6 month sperm quarantine due to HFEA regulations and clinics won't budge on this as it contravenes their license.  The chances are that you would need some done with the sperm if you have poor morphology as well like ICSI perhaps.

My last cycel at CRM was about £8-9000 ish. My last DE cycle in SPain ended up about £15K and I never got to ET but I had complications so I wouldn't take it as an indicator I think about £8-9000 would have be the usual price.

Good Luck
L x


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

Hi Bethany,


I have a friend whose 1st is her eggs and partners sperm...the second is donor egg and partners sperm. They are together!  He went to sperm and froze some sperm so that she could go for treatments without him and he could stay at home...maybe your KD would do one trip to do this??


I know she was worried about how she might feel, but I can honestly say she is totally besotted with LO2 and I don't think you would ever know the difference.  She carried him and read lots about epigenetics where some of your DNA (I think) or antibodies go into the growing baby....she felt like it became more like a third her, a third partner and a third donor...that helped her.


I'm at Create, and I really like them. I would consider doing natural IVF there as I am into the idea of as few drugs as possible. The consultant is also very upfront and will tell you if she thinks you need to move to donor eggs...in fact she told my friend I mentioned above this when she was 42/43 but she wasn't ready to hear it and did a couple more IVF's at the Lister before moving to donor eggs at 44/45.


Thanks for asking the question about donor eggs and sperm v's embryo adoption - I am beginning to think about this and the implications.


Not sure I can help with all the other questions - but feel free to talk it through on here, I find it useful hearing other people's thoughts and being able to express what I'm thinking too.


xxxx


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

oops I should have said he went to Spain, rather than to sperm!!!


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## morrigan (Dec 8, 2009)

Whilst it is realistic to say low amh/age stacks against you for oeivf you never really know until you try whether you'll respond-there are people with low amh who do respond. Ive heard of tandem cycles where you cycle at same time as donor and you have donors eggs as back up if yours don't go the course.

I've heard people having second children naturally worry about whether they can have same love for second child before there is one and there all 100% in love with them - I'm sure you would feel like that regardless of how conceived and you'd bring them all up to accept there background.

Good luck with you decision making- I'm hoping of course that it's already a done deal and you don't need to think about it!


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## some1 (May 13, 2006)

Bethany - Indekiwi used DE for her second and OE for her first.  She also had DE treatment in the UK, so I'm sure that she will be able to give you lots of information/advice.

Some1

xx


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

Some thoughts:

1) Is it worth trying my own eggs on a natural cycle (e.g. at Create) - or would that just be sending good money down the drain?
Hmm, I'd be inclined to think that if IUI/attempting with KD doesn't work, then yes, it prob would be good money down the drain to be honest.

2) If I consider DE with KD's sperm, is it possible to get donor eggs in the UK (preferably London) without a ridiculously long wait? I have a friend who has been on the waiting list at one of the London clinics - I think the Lister - for 7 years and they have still not found a match for her (she went to Barcelona in the meantime). Was she just unlucky?
LWC and CRM in London both claim to have waiting lists of ca 9 months. Indekiwi went to CRM. I went to LWC and was also on the waiting list at CRM. In both cases I was offered donors after about 6-9 months so unless you have very difficult matching criteria I would say you would be looking at an approx 9-12 month wait in the UK. Note that CRM makes you jump through a few more hoops than LWC to be 'approved' to go on their waiting list. You have to see their counsellor, satisfy them that you have taken the welfare of the child into consideration and then your case goes to their Ethics Committee. If you went with your KD as your partner you could of course circumvent all this so I would do that if he is willing...
 
3) If I did DEIVF in the UK, how much would it cost? And is my age still against me - or does that become irrelevant once I have DE?
About £8000 ish. And no, your age is then pretty much irrelevant. Only the age of the donor/the eggs matters...

4) If I went abroad for DEIVF (which I know would be cheaper), I doubt I could persuade KD to come too (he has a fear of flying) so I might then be looking at anon (or ID release) donor sperm. In this case, would I be better to try frozen embryo transfer (I know it's cheaper). Are there any benefits to DEIVF with fresh donor sperm?
Apparently success rates with fresh cycle are higher (ca 60%) than FET (ca 40%). That said, FET is €1000 and fresh cycle €3,900 so if you are prepared to keep trying you could potentially have 4 FET for the cost of 1 fresh cycle which would mean your chances of success would be pretty good by the 2nd or 3rd FET if you see what I mean. Waiting lists can be shorter for FET too, but you potentially get less choice of donor characteristics so you may want to take that into account

5) The big question - if I conceived LO#2 with DE, would I love the second child any less because he/she was not with my eggs, whereas LO#1 was? And would LO#2 be likely to think that I loved him or her less, even if it was not the case? (I would want to be open about the circumstances of conception so both LOs would know the full story - at an appropriate age, of course).
Hmm, I can't answer this as I haven't been in that situation but I suspect Inde will be along soon (and I'm 100% sure she'll tell you the answer is no, of course you won't love #2 any less, they would still be very much your child who you carried for 9 months and gave birth to, and fed and nurtured etc etc). As for #2 feeling less loved, I think that would only be the case if you treated them differently which I'm sure you wouldn't. I think all siblings go through phases of feeling like they are the less loved one/not the favourite....I have 2 sisters and I know we all jostled for attention and to be the favourite at times when we were young, but our parents were always scrupulously fair with us and I think if you treat them equal, they'll feel equal....regardless of their conception. I guess that's a little like asking whether my DE twins will feel less loved by my mum than their cousins because their cousins are my sister's natural children and therefore related to my mum by blood which my babies won't be. And again I'm 100% sure that my mum will treat them all equally and that this will be what matters, not the way in which they were conceived. 

6) Another big question - LO#1 knows his father and sees him regularly. If LO#2 had anon donor as his/her father (or even ID release), would it create a tension between the two children that LO#2 had no-one to call his daddy whereas LO#1 does?
Hmm, not sure on this one. I guess it could be difficult at times when #1 spends time with his dad and #2 doesn't have the same experiences. But I'm sure you'll be able to find ways around this - creating special time for you and #2 for example. Children are very resilient and accept things much more easily than adults and if #2 knows from an early age how things are, then hopefully they will just accept that's how it is. I don't think we have anyone on the thread in this situation who can speak from actual experience..I wonder if any DCN members might be able to help here?

Hope this helps, and of course hope that things work out for you and you don't need to tackle these tricky issues at all!
Best of luck,
Suitcase
x


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## Bethany915 (Aug 1, 2010)

Hi girls

Just to say thanks for all your thoughts / advice - given me plenty to think about!  I will also PM Indekiwi as I'm sure she will have some useful thoughts as well.

B xx


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## indekiwi (Dec 23, 2008)

Hello! Will respond briefly as I'm way off track with work / house stuff this evening.

1) Is it worth trying my own eggs on a natural cycle (e.g. at Create) - or would that just be sending good money down the drain?

Personally, I wouldn't bother unless the success rates at age 43 / 44 are significantly higher than for IUI / AI with fresh sperm. Not sure even whether the latter stats would be available.    I think you have similar AMH to me (as of two years ago it was 0.6   ). It might be that you would only produce one or two follicles with IVF, which was the outcome for me, or you might produce more. However, given your financial situation (at least, as you describe it), my personal view would be that you would be doing the equivalent of putting all your available capital on black, closing your eyes and hoping like mad that you came up trumps. Your risk appetite might be different from mine however....

2) If I consider DE with KD's sperm, is it possible to get donor eggs in the UK (preferably London) without a ridiculously long wait? I have a friend who has been on the waiting list at one of the London clinics - I think the Lister - for 7 years and they have still not found a match for her (she went to Barcelona in the meantime). Was she just unlucky?

Seven years sounds like the clinic has lost your friend's file...CRM London are quoting 6 - 9 months at present but seem to be catching up on themselves in recent months. Their success rates are fantastic - between 50 and 60% for DE tx. 

3) If I did DEIVF in the UK, how much would it cost? And is my age still against me - or does that become irrelevant once I have DE?

Around £8 - 9k, though my first cycle of DE tx at my original clinic came in at £11.5k. Age is irrelevant for recipients with respect to DE tx, but the majority of clinics will not treat women who are over 50. (You've got a few years up your sleeve on that latter point   ).

4) If I went abroad for DEIVF (which I know would be cheaper), I doubt I could persuade KD to come too (he has a fear of flying) so I might then be looking at anon (or ID release) donor sperm. In this case, would I be better to try frozen embryo transfer (I know it's cheaper). Are there any benefits to DEIVF with fresh donor sperm?

One way around your friend / donor's fear of flying might be to go through a clinic in the UK with reciprocal arrangements with a clinic abroad, present at the UK clinic as a couple, and have your friend / donor give consent for the sperm to be exported abroad. It would drive the cost up however. Fresh cycles normally have better success rates than frozen cycles, but at many clinics abroad, their FET success rates are higher than fresh cycles in the UK!

5) The big question - if I conceived LO#2 with DE, would I love the second child any less because he/she was not with my eggs, whereas LO#1 was? And would LO#2 be likely to think that I loved him or her less, even if it was not the case? (I would want to be open about the circumstances of conception so both LOs would know the full story - at an appropriate age, of course).

No. And, I very much doubt it so long as you didn't treat the kids differently. Poppet already knows that Alvina was  conceived with the help of a wonderful lady and the same man who helped me to make him, so it is already open knowledge in our household.

What can I tell you to give comfort about this? My little girl has very dark hair and has olive skin - a far cry from poppet and me. I celebrate that difference every day I wake up and gaze at her next to me, and silently thank my donors for their amazing contribution to my family. I bonded instantly to her at birth, whereas it took weeks with my son. On the epigenetics side of things, it is interesting to see that (excuse if TMI) she has an inverted nipple, just like her mum (errr, for the avoidance of all doubt, that would be me.   ). When, in the weeks after her birth, I struggled and sometimes failed to breast feed her, I christened her time and again with non-stop tears because I couldn't seem to provide her with the same start to life as I did for Poppet. I could not love her any more than I do. 

6) Another big question - LO#1 knows his father and sees him regularly. If LO#2 had anon donor as his/her father (or even ID release), would it create a tension between the two children that LO#2 had no-one to call his daddy whereas LO#1 does?

I think (but am not certain) that Estelle might be in this situation? She hasn't posted recently to my knowledge (she only had her second bub in the last several weeks) but you might want to PM her and ask. 

Hope this helps, but if you want to chat more, I'd be happy to PM you my number.

A-Mx


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## Bethany915 (Aug 1, 2010)

Inde - thanks so much for your thoughts, I will take a day or two to reflect on all the info and I'll PM you if I have follow-up questions.

This site is just great, isn't it, for enabling people to share useful information - I am still a bit bowled over that it exists .

B xx


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## olivia m (Jun 24, 2004)

Hi
Just to say that DC Network do run Preparation for DC Parenthood workshops for people who have not yet conceived - we have one running this weekend in central London - where all the big questions about eggs, sperm and embryo donation are talked about. The workshops for heterosexual couples are facilitated by a man and a woman, both of whom are parents to donor conceived children, but who also have relevant qualifications and experience to facilitate groups. Single women and lesbian groups are run by two women, both of whom are parents. There is also input from a doctor or embryologist and someone who has knowledge and experience around all the social and emotional issues involved in gamete donation. There is a link to further information and a booking form on front page of our website www.dcnetwork.org

Olivia

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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