# Secondary infertility and def need ICSI :(



## aquapinkdog (Dec 23, 2010)

Hi Ladies,
I'm coming on here to left off steam more than anything, so sorry for the 'me' post.
We've known since December DH has no motility (well one out of 4 tests came back as 5%, but the other 3 said none).
After seeing the specialist in March he's cut out all alcohol, takes more vitamins than Holland & Barrett, has seeds for breakfast and for the last 3 months has even been having acupuncture, in the hope of improving things.

Today was D-day with the results. The clinic haven't actually said what the results are yet (so I know if it's better than last time), but e-mailed to say 'There is a problem with motility and there was some binding so some of the sperm are clumping together. The lab has suggested ICSI would be better due to the reduced progression, but the count is not too bad.'

I'm absolutely gutted. I was sort of expecting it, but still hoping for a miracle and for them to tell me that all DH's hard work has been worth it and that we can do it naturally, but seems not.

I know we are a lot luckier than lots of other people, because we have a perfect little boy (who's nearly 4), but right now, I am feeling very 'why us' and very selfish.

Thank you for reading if you got this far.
Fx


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## Smurf2 (Mar 4, 2011)

Hi aquapinkdog, sorry to hear that the results are not what you were hoping for.  It's horrible when you get negative news as you want to hope that somehow things will be ok.

Try not to feel guilty about how you're feeling, as it is natural to feel the way you do.  I continue to feel hurt, angry,etc that i have been hit with fertility issues, when others my age/older still seem to be able to get pregnant easily.

I also try to look at test results as giving me an indication of what i face - so that i can try the best route to get pregnant, hence we got stuck in with ivf once we had our test results.  Although it's hard, sometimes it's useful to know what you're up against.


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## lilyisabel (Jul 21, 2011)

Hi Aquapinkdog
Sorry to hear about your test results and you definitely need to let out your frustration.
We found out a month ago that my DH has antibodies which means icsi is the only route for us. In our consultation the doctor started to tell us to relax we'd only been trying 18 months(even tho I'm 35) it hadn't been that long and maybe Clomid should be the first step. DH's results came through and changed everything. When we were told I felt as though I'd been punched as the realisation of what is going to happen hit me. We've taken a bit of time to get used to the idea have our injection lesson booked in for next week when I'll pick up the drugs and then start down reg at the end of the month. I'm now feeling really positive I've had a brilliant month not wondering if I could possibly be pregnant as I know it's not going to happen and that I'm doing the best thing I can.
I do panic that we'll never give our dd a sibling, especially as all her friends have them or are on the way. But I feel so lucky everyday that we have her. It's all very up and down! Hope you are feeling more positive today you will get there and it will be worth everything to hold your little one. Lots of baby dust Lilybel


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## Bubblicious (Jul 8, 2010)

Aquapinkdog, I'm sorry about your news.  How are you doing now, hun?


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## aquapinkdog (Dec 23, 2010)

Hi Smurf, Lilyisabel and Bubbs,

How are you all?

I hope we see some BFP's around here soon 

Well, Im defintely confused now and need some opinions please

We had our private consultant appt Monday. He was talking a bit about IUI and I just said I wasn't interested (although just note with interest Bubbs you've had it). Thought I was starting ICSI drugs on 6Sep.

Had my NHS follow up appt today. Only went really because it's been booked for 4 months. Expected to hear that ICSI was the next step (which is what he said last time we went, if the SA results weren't better). It was a diff consultant and he basically wants me to take Clomid for the next 3 months. He didn't mention IUI though. Just said if I had more eggs, we had more chance, despite DH's vv poor motility, and kept pointing out there's always a chance without ICSI, as we already have DS.

I'm now really torn. Part of me is sick of waiting and just want to get on with ICSI, but then some of me thinks, but what if it does work (although I'm not very optimistic). I have to make a decision today because I'm on day 2 of my cycle.

I've phoned the private clinic for their opinion, but the nurse is on leave til Tues. Argh. 

I know only we can make this decision, but I'd love to hear your thoughts too.

Fx


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## Bubblicious (Jul 8, 2010)

Aquapinkdog, personally speaking I was very optimistic that IUI might work for us because we are unexplained. However, if DH had had issues, I don't think I would have entertained the idea.

On Clomid, there is not the kind of control that you can have with injectible stimulation. It is not actually meant to make you produce more eggs than a natural cycle. In fact, for two of my IUI's, I only had one egg and for one, I had two but one was smaller so was probably not mature enough for fertilisation. any more than two, then my IUI would have been abandoned anyway.

In hindsight, I wish I hadn't spent the money or wasted the time with IUI [but that's because it didn't work].

Good luck whatever you decide.


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## lilyisabel (Jul 21, 2011)

Hi Aquapinkdog
I've only just seen your post - what did you decide to do? Hope you're feeling ok with whatever you decided but how confusing and frustrating. 

I think that once you've got 1 child you're put in the category of done it once - can do it again. That's what my journey to this point has felt like, both with the NHS and at our private consultation (until the antibody reading came in). I do understand that they want us to avoid the stress of the IVF process but I do think already having a child changes people's views that maybe if it was your first they would be encouraging IVF but for us they don't. In our case I think DD was the one that got through and we won't be that lucky again. 

We're starting DR on the 1st Sept and I go from being very excited to very scared. Through out this I'm just so blessed I have DD she's keeping me sane, I can't imagine what it must feel like first time round. DH is also doing a pretty good job of looking after me and keeps asking me how I'm feeling - which is not his usual style 

Lots of baby dust to all  

On a non IF topic can any of you help me? We're potty training atm and she's dry and in pants in the day and this morning woke up for the first time with a dry nappy. How long after daytime can you do nightime? I'm waiting to see if she can go a week with a dry nappy does that sound about right?


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## chicksmum (Dec 22, 2010)

Lilyisabel

On the potty training issue. I waited until my daughter was dry a week during the day before taking away the nappies on a night. I just got some of those bed protectors (pampers disposible ones) but she never needed them.

Good luck!


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## lilyisabel (Jul 21, 2011)

Thanks Chicksmum,
She did three nights dry then this morning her nappy was wet so we're not there yet. I'd not seen the bed protectors but will get some of those for when we do need them they sound like a good way to go.
I've seen your signature really hope all goes well at your scan  

Sorry for hijacking the thread with potty training aquapinkdog 
Lily x


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## aquapinkdog (Dec 23, 2010)

Hi Lilyisabel, 
Good luck with the treatment. I will keep everything crossed for your BFP. Which clinic are you going to? We are planning to use Spire Slough, with EC and ET at Lister. 

I started taking the Clomid last week. The nurse from the private clinic came back to us at 9pm on the Friday and said my AMH test had come back as 'good' so we had time on our side...so to try clomid for 3 months if we wanted. She said not to bother with IUI though as the success rates are so rubbish. It seemed mad in 24 hours to completely change our plans...I thought I'd be starting ICSI on 6th Sept, and instead I'm now doing 3 months of clomid . If it doesn't work (and I don't understand with MF why it would?) then we'll do ICSI. I was thinking we'd probably start in January - just have December off from trying. 

Part of me wants to get on with ICSI, but then the scared part of me was quite pleased to be given an 'out' for a while. I am getting conscious of the age gap growing as my son is 4 next week. I always wanted a 4 year gap but it's losing its appeal now he's one of the only 'only children' left amongst his friends.

In terms of potty training, I left him in pull ups for a while after he was dry in the day (think it was months), then one day he just turned around and refused to wear them, telling me he was a big boy. He's only had about 3 accidents in over a year.

Chicksmum, I hope the scan next week brings good news.

Love Fx


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## Jem1978 (May 17, 2011)

Hi Aquapinkdog

I am so sorry you didn't get the desired result after all the effort. I initially thought i would jump straight right into IVF without a thought. However, it took me much longer to be 'OK' with it. IUI was ruled out and after that i did need time to try a bit longer hoping for a miracle and time to sort my head out.

Sometimes i think you just need to work the processes through to 'get ready' but everyone is different. 

The plan is laying it's self out for you now and always hard to decide. Try not to worry about the age gap (I know i do too ). My daughter is 5 already and this wait didn't fit with my plan of 3-4 year age gap between kids! Let's hope this time we will get that sister/brother for our  very special small people and us.

Jx


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## Bubblicious (Jul 8, 2010)

Good luck, Aquapinkdog.  Here's hoping for a non-IVF BFP!


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## aquapinkdog (Dec 23, 2010)

Bubblicious said:


> Good luck, Aquapinkdog. Here's hoping for a non-IVF BFP!


Cheers Bubbs. How are you feeling?
How was your sisters wedding?
Fx


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## lilyisabel (Jul 21, 2011)

Hi everyone!
How's the Clomid going Aquapinkdog? Really got everything crossed for a natural BFP for you. 

I'm going to the Herts and Essex clinic so I'm not that far from you. How are you finding the Spire? That was our other option? We only picked H&E so we could go to one place.

Did my first d/r injection tonight and doing the injection itself was fine pulling the stuff up into the syringe however was a bit  of a problem and I could be running out of needles and syringes if I carry on as I did tonight..... 

I had an 'interesting' labour with my dd 2 failed inductions then 48 hours in labour before finally having a forceps delivery so I keep telling myself nothing in this ivf process will be as bad as that and the result was worth every second.

Thanks for all the potty training tips I was getting a bit carried away after a few good nights - there have been a few accidents these past few days. I'm in no hurry however it's her that desperately wants to wear big girl pants. 
Lily x


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## Bubblicious (Jul 8, 2010)

lilisabel, how's the DR been so far?

Aquapinkdog, how are you getting on? Did you get scanned to see how many potential eggies the Clomid might be helping your ovaries to produce?

My sister's wedding was great. It seems like ages ago now.

I'm still waiting for AF but I did have a scan a week and a half ago and I had one big follie so my consultant thought I would be ovulating soon. I stopped DR at the end of July so it's taking a bit of time for my ovaries to get working again. Hopefully, we still have a chance of a natural BFP this month; I'm getting all the usual PMT symptoms though. Anyway, if AF does arrive, I'll be starting on a follicular protocol IVF, which is a mix between long and short protocol so I will DR but much earlier in my cycle [from CD2].


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## aquapinkdog (Dec 23, 2010)

lilyisabel said:


> Hi everyone!
> How's the Clomid going Aquapinkdog? Really got everything crossed for a natural BFP for you.
> 
> I'm going to the Herts and Essex clinic so I'm not that far from you. How are you finding the Spire? That was our other option? We only picked H&E so we could go to one place.
> ...


Hi Lily,
How are you feeling? Are the injections getting easier for you?

How is your DS getting on with her potty training?

All is quiet here - took Clomid this month, but have had all the normal symptoms of AF since ovulation, and have absolutely no doubt it will come this week, which is pretty pants. Saw a friend who lives far away on Saturday and it's obvious that we will be hearing a pregnancy announcement in the next few weeks....small signs of a bump there. Argh.

I wish you the best of luck.
Lots of hugs Fx


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## aquapinkdog (Dec 23, 2010)

Bubblicious said:


> lilisabel, how's the DR been so far?
> 
> Aquapinkdog, how are you getting on? Did you get scanned to see how many potential eggies the Clomid might be helping your ovaries to produce?
> 
> ...


Hi Bubbs,
Good luck for getting a natural BFP first! I will keep everything crossed for you.

Because it was the NHS who gave me Clomid, I'm not having any monitoring to see what is happening. Any idea how many eggs are supposed to be released? I'd never researched it because I'm ovulating (I do the CBFM every month). It was really strange because on ovulation day I could almost feel something moving for about 5 hours, down my left tube....it's nuts. I've never felt anything like it before. Unfortunately I have all the discharge (sorry TMI) which spells AF's on its way 

I really really hope you get your BFP soon!!!!!

Love Fx


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## lilyisabel (Jul 21, 2011)

Hi F,
D/r is going fine - it just seems part of the normal routine, after bath and bed I go and inject . I have my first scan next Tuesday and   is okay and I can start stimming and get onto the next stage.
Before af arrived I was going round like this   poor dh, luckily that has passed and I'm just getting a few headaches, but they might be caused by going back to work after a week off 

Sounds as though it was a really strange experience with your ovulation and feeling it down your tube. I had it explained to me when they thought Clomid could be an option was that it would release an egg from each ovary so two instead of one as it was just an overview I was given I'm not sure how true this is. However a friend of a friend took a double dose of Clomid and did end up with twins. Really hope it's worked for you  

I know what you mean about the pregnancy annoucements - you want to be happy for them and deep down you are but you just want it to be your turn. I want to be like I used to be when I was so excited when anyone told me their news. The weekend after I find out if this works I'm hosting a baby shower for my friend (she had ivf) but have another friend staying with us for it who's first is younger than DD and is pregnant with her second. I'm just going to have to grit my teeth and get on with it if it's not been successful and maybe have a whole bottle of champers just for me. It's not the baby announcement that gets to me it's the pregnancy I think that's cos their baby would never be mine but pregnancy is all the same (does that make sense?). 

The potty training is hit and miss, the amount of washing I'm having to do is not good 

Bubbs - glad you enjoyed your sister's wedding. my little bro got married in july, dd was bridesmaid and she was a terror so we had quite a stressful day, everyone else had a brilliant day which was the main thing.    for a bfp for you very soon

L x


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