# Apple/** offering their employees egg freezing so they can keep on working.



## smallbutmighty (Aug 5, 2013)

This is even worse than the clinics pitching it. Just imagine your boss saying, "Hey, if you want this promotion we're going to need real commitment so maybe you could get your eggs frozen to demonstrate that?"

"But boss, what about my aging womb lining and the 85%+ fail rate on egg freezing?"

"You're being negative. Be a team player and go get your eggs frozen. You can have your babies after your career."

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/oct/15/apple-********-offer-freeze-eggs-female-employees

Benevolence my backside. Sinister.

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## Cloudy (Jan 26, 2012)

I saw this and thought the same. I really hope they are making it very very clear that the chances of actually having a child from these frozen eggs is 30% (maybe a bit more depending on whose stats you believe) plus the fact it seems to ignore all other aspects of fertility!

I would have been much happier to see them setting a trend for supporting the "1 in 6" who have to endure infertility: time off for appointments, interest free (tax deductible) loans for treatment. And also the "1 in 4" who suffer miscarriage or baby/child loss with fair special bereavement leave rather than making people getting signed off "sick" - grief isn't an illness.

It's obviously good if they are genuinely supporting people take extra leave and those people going through adoption and surrogacy, but I do worry about the egg freezing things.

Besides, in some states it's soon likely to be virtually impossible to have IVF as they are introducing the "every embryo deserves a right to life" thing which is basically going to outlaw IVF: ironically in Colorado, where is legal to smoke cannabis....


----------



## deedee_spark (Aug 6, 2014)

I'm appalled at this. I can't even think of something flippant to say. It is a sad that business wants to play God with women. 

It sums up what working for these companies is like!


----------



## smallbutmighty (Aug 5, 2013)

I think it is a really misleading message to send out to young women in particular. A friend of mine, newly trained up lawyer in the Bay Area, told me she was going to get her eggs frozen so that she could just keep working and not have to worry about any of that. She said there was no way she would be a slave to her body or forced to commit to any guy.

I asked her if she actually knew what the success rates were for using frozen eggs and she was really shocked. The only way it is "like insurance" is that insurance companies are also notoriously unreliable.

I think far from encouraging female employees they'll send potential recruits running for the hills if they have any idea. It suggests really nasty things about their corporate culture.

Cloudy you're 100% right. They should be encouraging couples (not just women) to get on with it, not taking the attitude they can do that later on their own time and dollar.


----------



## C0nfused (Apr 13, 2007)

I think this has so many flaws.. if the company pays for a female employee's eggs to be frozen.. does she have to sign an agreement not to use them for x number of years? does she have to ask permission to use them? what happens if she has eggs frozen but then falls pg naturally? if that was to happen would she have to pay back the cost of the egg freeze as penalty for 'breaking the agreement'? 

There surely would have to be some rules about it, but where do you draw the line.. my suggestion is to draw the line right through the idea, and think of offering flexible working/home working options instead. 

There are solutions out there that are mutually beneficial for both companies and employees that do not involve medical intervention!!


----------



## mamochka (May 23, 2013)

I pretty much feel the same as Deedee. Sounds like selling soul to a devil. ..Freezing eggs that means the female employee is most likely approaching 35 and no partner.  Although this thought never occurred to me at 35 and I sometimes wish it did if heard this from employer I would probably throw up. But then at 35 I did not have the same understanding of corporate "matrix" as I do now and was a rather dedicated matrix member)) Anyways I was lucky to get pregnant with OE at 43 but I have a few words of advice to my younger girlfriends. M


----------



## muffin2 (Jun 13, 2014)

Had followed the link on guardian. It does not actually say that women need to postpone having children or sign some obligations. ******** seem to offer to pay for 20k for cryo preservation if this is what women want to do as part of health benefits. Especially with low success rate it is probably a good idea to do a cryo cycle when a woman is 20+ at employer expense and see later if she needs the eggs. Young women normally dont have so much money and by the time one is 35 it might be too late for egg storage and high time for agressive IVF.

I actualy dont see anything negative in it. And the more information is available on the topic of limited ovarian reserve the better. I wish somebody had a good talk with me on this issue when i was 20+. I dont know how i got to 40 yo thinking i can get pregnant easily...


----------



## smallbutmighty (Aug 5, 2013)

Guessing your boss has never told you to put it off for another few years then? If I thought they were at face value being concerned for their employees I'd be with you, but knowing the culture of tech firms I'd say more likely they'll be using it as leverage to pressure women.

Totally agree with you on educating men and women on the importance of getting on with it though. The problem seems to be that no one ever thinks it will happen to them.


----------



## deedee_spark (Aug 6, 2014)

I'm with you on this one smallbutmighty. I worked in IT for one of the largest companies in the world. The few women who had babies mainly left and never came back... The one women who returned to work after 6 month maternity (the company paid you extra if you returned to work within 6 months of having a baby), had agreed with the Boss that she would be allowed to work from home on Fridays to avoid the commute. Working from home is standard practice in some of these places because they don't have to provide many desks. The first week she returned to work, our boss arranged a team meeting, that everyone had to attend, on the Friday she wanted to work from home. She obviously didn't bother working from home, ever. There were only 6 people in our team and very easy to have the meeting any day. She used to drop her child at childminders at 7:30am and collect the child between 7:00pm and 8:0pm. I used to wonder why she bothered having a baby, but then she left the company. Everyone was encouraged to work extreme hours for the love of the company - I once went without sleep, through working, for nearly 40 hours. I didn't do it for the love of the job, I just got swept up with it and didn't meet anyone. I do regret it!

Men and women should be encouraged to think about children younger. I don't think freezing eggs is a good option, but I see your point Muffin2, that some women, who haven't met someone, might want to freeze their eggs.


----------



## Molly99 (Apr 16, 2012)

I would have done it if I knew what I do now back then


----------



## K jade (Aug 11, 2013)

Just a general question on egg freezing not really in relation to the current news

But the gist i'm getting here is that egg freezing is not worth doing at all...

is that correct? im just interested in general

thanks


----------



## deedee_spark (Aug 6, 2014)

Yes, I would be interested in this too. I have never been too concerned about short term freezing of eggs for IVF, but I'm not sure about the impact long term freezing (say 10 years). Since frozen food declines with time, do eggs? If no decline, then freezing eggs at 22-?? is a great idea, but only for the women who haven't met a man, not for the companies who want to exploit people/treat them as 'resources'.


----------



## smallbutmighty (Aug 5, 2013)

This gynae has nailed that question in this follow-up article in The Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11169420/********-egg-freezing-The-facts-dont-lie-We-havent-cracked-egg-freezing.-Not-even-close.html

Basically slightly better than nowt but not by much. 

Which is what makes me so angry. It ain't the answer to to a long-hours high pressure work place.

She's bang on to comment on the total lack of fact exploration in the churnalism covering this story.

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## K jade (Aug 11, 2013)

i think the article is a little biased. and the statistics not measurable. i do think egg freezing is a good thing plus its great that the new tecqnique is more effective. i think the stats on this article is based on the old method. but yes. your employer asking you to do it is just weird!!


----------



## mamochka (May 23, 2013)

Absolutely Kayla and Muffin - being informed that you can freeze and what are consequences of waiting too late is one really positive thing for ladies in late 20s early 30s but its none of corporation business...


----------



## muffin2 (Jun 13, 2014)

Agree with everyone, if this policy targets 35 single girls, it will be rather manipulation and misleading. 35 is high time do get pregnant and not freeze relatively old eggs.

I was thinking that it might be good for 20+ year olds who dont know what life is going to bring. Also would help them to get in touch with fertility docs and get some understanding of the basics.

I however have a friend who did freeze her eggs at 36, did just one cycle, 8 eggs if i remember correctly. Too few to really feel secure in my view... She has a successful career in one of the big banks but this is not what stops her from having kids. She is single since a break up 5 years ago. Career would be reprioritized as soon as she has a guy to ttc together. So she would be better off if her bank would pay for her cryo. She only did one go because of the costs. I really like the article of the gynecologist about the chances. Will forward the link to her. She is 37 now and i think should start ttc with donor sperm and not wait any longer.

I must say i have lost two friends with my blant advice in this area already. Women just dont want to hear....


----------



## Haydan (Oct 12, 2013)

smallbutmighty said:


> "But boss, what about my aging womb lining and the 85%+ fail rate on egg freezing?"
> 
> "You're being negative. Be a team player and go get your eggs frozen. You can have your babies after your career."
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/oct/15/apple-********-offer-freeze-eggs-female-employees


  thats made my day - so funny! could you just imagin.

i think the world today is just too relaxed about fertility and takes it for granted. 
i for one know that my struggles have opened the eyes of my friends and i hope will help my nieces have more awareness and be able to make informed choices.

but choices shouldn't be made because your boss has offered to pay for you to freeze you eggs - that's just weird and inappropriate.

the intent behind this may have come from a good place - encourage gender equality in the workplace etc but i just don't agree with it. Women shouldn't have to mess around with their bodies just to be treated as equals in the work place.

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## BroodyChick (Nov 30, 2009)

I'd like to add my view after talking to a friend who works for one of those companies.
This extra benefit was created for a female employee embarking on cancer
Treatment and then they rolled it out across the company.
Be careful of the media spin!!
Nobody is being told to postpone a family for the sake of their career.


----------



## SWGirl (Aug 19, 2004)

I think I read this on BBc news a few months back and thought it sounded really odd.  I didn't realise the chances with frozen eggs (if poster above is correct) is 30% (or even 15% as another poster above put).  Is the success rate with frozen eggs really that?  I think many clinics don't achieve that rate with frozen embryos let alone frozen eggs.  Just a couple of years ago I read there had only ever been a couple of babies born in the Uk from frozen eggs.  Has that now changed considerably?  One of the reasons I found the article so disturbing was because I thought the chances of treatment with frozen eggs was so tiny.


----------



## SWGirl (Aug 19, 2004)

http://www.hfea.gov.uk/46.html

I see from the HFEA website that there have been 20 live births in the Uk from 160 cycles using embryos created with frozen eggs so the odds are better than I thought 1/8 or around 12.5%. So at that rate it will take around 8 transfers perhaps to work. Who pays for all the transfers and time off work for those transfers and years of storage etc. Sounds like the employer is just paying for the initial collection.... It doesn't sound like a good deal to me.... Sounds very risky.

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------

