# Hi I'm new and would like some advice



## Amanda007 (Aug 18, 2008)

Hi
Finally brave enough to join in.  Read the site during my last 2 attempts at IVF and thought this time I need some of the special babydust you all share.
So I am about to start on the rollercoaster again, but my history is:
1st IVF Nov 07, poor and slow responder, they put it down to my age, 36 at the time! and ended up converting to IUI - bit of a waste of time.  Then went through 2nd attempt in Feb/Mar 08 raised the drugs and eventually got 3 follies so pushed them and got to try IVF, got pg but v low levels so knew it would not happen, early miscarriage at 9 weeks.
Now we're onto our 3rd attempt and getting funding but this time I really wanted to try short protocol cos of what I've read that this will help because of my history of poor and slow response and age. But my clinic seem to have a strange idea of short protocol - take the d/r drug from day 21 for 10 days, have a scan (which is tomorrow - Thurs) then start stimming for 12 days, so EC is due on 18 Sep and ET 20 Sept.  Does anyone else think this is a strange protocol?  I just know I won't have shut down enough on tomorrow's scan and everything will be delayed!  My DH is getting v angry with our clinic now.

Sorry if I've waffled too much or maybe I'm in the wrong place but any advice would be great!
xxxx
I'm still working on a funky signature!!


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## outspan3 (Jan 22, 2006)

Amanda Welcome to FF 

Well done for joining  You'll certainly get some answers for your questions here. I'm afraid I can't answer personally as I have no experience but I'm sure someone will be along with some info for you.  Sorry to hear about your loss . It can't have been easy but loads of   for your next cycle

I'm going to give you a few links that you might find useful. Please feel free to explore and post in any thread you can contribute too  

*What Every New Member Needs To Know (includes a list of common abbreviations) ~ *   CLICK HERE

*Peer Support (for asking fertility and treatment related questions of your fellow FFers) ~ * CLICK HERE

*IVF General ~ *CLICK HERE

While undergoing treatment, you might find it useful to join other ladies having treatment at the same time. The Cycle Buddies threads are just for that. You will fnd a thread, usually with a funny/inspiring name for this year's buddies. Just pop along to the appropriate month and say "Hi" when you are ready to start treatment.

*Cycle buddies ~ *CLICK HERE

*2WW, Ladies in Waiting ~ *CLICK HERE

We have a part of this board dedicated to the memories of angel babies and children. Many ladies here find it comforting to have a place to talk to / about their lost loved ones. 

*Forget me not ~ *CLICK HERE

Whilst you're here don't forget to kick back, relax and check out our fun forum where you can join in with general chit chat / jokes / hobbies area:

*Girl & Boy talk - Community & Fun Board ~ *CLICK HERE

You can also chat live in our excellent chat room. We have a newbie night in the chat room every week (*Wednesday at 8pm*), where you can meet other new members and get technical support with navigating the site and using all the functions available here.  CLICK HERE FOR INFO ON NEWBIE CHAT 

You can also "meet" and chat with people in your local area through the *Location boards*. This is especially useful to find people who may be using the same clinic and or in the same PCT area

If you need any help please feel free to ask 

Wishing you every luck  
Suzy


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## Tiny21 (Jul 24, 2007)

Hi Amanda and welcome
Sounds like you have had quite a time of it.      

I am no expert at all - just going through my first IVF (after 5 DIUIs) and all a bit daunting but your short protocol sounds pretty similar to my long?   I started downregging last Wed and am waiting for AF, then I think I have bloods and scans and start stimming - I think   I am just taking it one stage at a time as feels too much to think about all at once. Each clinic does things so differently though. I am sure they are doing what they think best for you. I am sure my clinics (have been to 2) get fed up with all my questions - but if I hadn't have pushed and reminded and asked again they would not have provided me with luteal support, which it sounds like I need as I spot every month for quite a long time. Even this last time I asked about the drugs list, mentioned my spotting and off the nurse goes and comes back with a huge prescription for pessaries etc. etc.   because of it. I have mentioned it every time so I think all clinics have their moments.  Overall though I do trust them but do question things - it's my body at the end of the day.  

Your timing actually sounds very similar to my predicted timing - my EC is expected to be w/c 22nd Sept - but I suppose it all depends on AF turning up.  You should have some more concrete information tomorrow and then presumably they will tweak drugs etc. accordingly. Good luck tomorrow, I hope that you get the news you want.  
Tiny xxxx


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

Hi Amanda, 

This does sound rather odd - I'd have another chat with your clinic and see if they can clarify things for you.

I've had 2 SP IVF cycles (at LWC in London) - on both there was no downregging at all. Just scan on day 2, then stimms (250 Puregon daily) for about 10-12 days, EC around day 14, ET 3 days later.  As well as the Puregon I was on Orgalutran from about day 6 to stop premature ovulation.

I'm 38, have good FSH results etc so not necessarily a low responder - I actually went with SP because my clinic could not give me a good reason for doing LP and I wanted to do something in the shortest time and with less drugs (I didn't like the idea of shutting my system down just to build up again...)

As I understand it, the whole point of SP is that you don't downreg, so I'd say you are still on an LP cycle - hope you manage to get some answers from your clinic. Have they upped the meds this time to improve your chances of responding better?

Good luck,
Laura
x


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## SleepyT (Aug 13, 2008)

Hi Amanda
I too am no expert I'm in my first tx also but again, sounds like my long protocol and as I understood it, SP was that you don't DR.
I started nasal spray [DR] on day 21, had a normal period and then started stimming.

For the record I was exasperated with my clinic - they told me nothing if I didn't ask. Part of me thinks they assume you know, part of me thinks it's laziness, part of me thinks they don't want to bamboozle you with to much info. (But you've done it before so the bit don'e make sense for you.) I didn't know what it was but it wasn't right. I'd get so frustrated, I like to understand things in my head and know why I'm doing something instead of just doing it. Then I tend not to worry so much. But I had to drag info out of them and used to get so upset.

I think you should ask them to re-iterate everything for sure, I wish you lots of luck. It's stressful enough without wondering if the clinic are doing the right thing for you.
Best wishes with everything x


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Hi & welcome 

Just a quickie cos I'm work and _must_ get on with some documents !

I have to say I agree with the other ladies......that protocol sounds like a long protocol to me.

A short protocol doesn't involve any downregging. I've never done SP (so someone please correct me if I'm wrong) but I _believe_ you start sniffing/injecting the DR drug (dependent on whether injection or nasal spray) at beginning of your cycle for a day or so....and then you start stimming injection and still take low dose of DR drug (this is to prevent you from ovulating too early, before trigger injection). I'm not sure when you actually have baseline scan....whether that's before you start the DR drugs or not ? You'd then have scans as normal through stimming, then trigger injection, then EC and ET.

If you've already downregged for 10 days and have baseline today (Thursday) then you could already have downregged in that time (some women "shutdown" fairly quickly)....however, the whole point of an SP is that you don't shutdown !

What you describe is exactly what I've had on all 4 of my fresh IVFs which were long protocol. Long protocol can start at beginning of cycle or on cd21 but it involves full downregging for approx 2 weeks. Short protocol, whilst you still take the DR drugs at low dose, alongside stimming drugs, doesn't involve actually downregging.

I would definitely speak with your consultant and raise your concerns.

Here's some info...

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/content/view/106/3/

Take care
Natasha


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## MAL. (Mar 19, 2007)

Hiya

I was on the sp twice, on day of AF I had to take prostap (one injection) to shut down, I was scanned on day 7-11 to double check everything had gone quiet and then I would start stimms. From what I have read every clinic seems to do it different but I defo did down reg for my tx.

Good luck x


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## ❣Audrey (Aug 22, 2008)

I* agree with the others - definitely sounds like a long protocol.  hope you manage to get it sorted xxx


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## Bearfriend (Mar 28, 2008)

Hi amanda,

I don't know much about the short protocol agonist cycle but can tell you about the short protocol antagonist cycle.

The Agonist cycle is when you are down regged using buserelin the antagonist cycle is when ovulation is stopped using orgalutron or certrotide.  I know the antagonist cycle is often used for poor responders because it works with your body's natural hormone cycle rather than shutting it down and imposing an artifical one on top.  Generally you can have a lower dose of FSH drugs (puregon, menopur or Gonal F) because your body is producing FSH its self.  Start FSH injections on day 3, add in Orgalutron or Certrotide injections on day 7 and keep going until follicles reach the right size and then trigger.  

Best Wishes,
Bearfriend


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## Katerina x (Jun 14, 2007)

Hi Amanda

I'm not an expert at all, but what you describe sounds more like the long protocol to me?? I've done it quite like you say - taking buserlin for two weeks from day 21 and then, if d/regged enough, gone straight on to stimming for 12 days keeping taking the buserlin.  On the other hand, when I did the short protocol (which I was recommended because I over-responded with the long protocol and get OHSS  , and for people in my situation SP apparently produces fewer eggs - as it did ), I started stimming from day 2, for 10-12 days, adding a different suppressant, an orgalutran at day 5/6.  

Don't know if that helps - I'm clueless on agonist/antagonist...

Good luck  

Katerina xx


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## Amanda007 (Aug 18, 2008)

Thanks girls for all the feedback.
Suzy thanks for all the links gives me plenty to do this weekend whilst DH away! 
Tiny - hope to see you in cycle buddies for Sept/Oct, that's where I'll be heading after this.

So just to update had the scan this morning (BTW v interesting to see that the Ladyboys are in town again!), showed what we expected, ovaries looked nice and small, but lining still thick.  Looks like I have to wait for AF and keep sniffing for another week.  They did bloods but can't get the result until tomorrow.
I think I agree with everyone that this does sound like a LP rather than SP.  I think they call it whatever we think it is so they think we understand the terminology, I really feel we get treat like   sometime and they don't like it when you start and find things out and ask lots of questions !! 

Anyway it's nice to know I'm not alone, as I haven't told anyone what we're going through!  Thanks  and   to everyone that posted, I thought everyone would think I was a neurotic crackpot


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## Moth (Apr 17, 2008)

Hi, i've just started a short protocol as am nearly 42 and have a low amh (3.6) I was told i'd be on a long protocol but i asked to go on a short protocol.  I ook the birth control pill for a month, then on day two of af, had baseline scan and started with suprecur to suppress ovulation. On day three of af, continue with suprecur and begin 6ampoules of menopur (max dose as am no spring chicken!) Will continue with drugs for approx 10 - 12 days until follicles are big enough for ec. (That's if my follicles respond to the drugs!)

I agree with Katerina, the protocol you mentioned sounds more like a long protocol. My understanding was that the difference between the two protocols is that, long protocol you start down regulating on cd21 of your period during the month prior to treatment and short protocol is begins on days 2/3 of the period when your treatment will be starting.

Maybe you could ask someone at your clinic to explain things to you?

Good luck for your treatment  

Moth x


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi hon

for what it's worth, that really does sound just like a long protocol to me!  D/R from day 21 is the classic example of a long protocol.  There is no d/r on a short protocol, as described by Moth above.

But hon, please try not to tie yourself in knots worrying about what the scan may or may not show.  My mum used to say "don't borrow trouble"  There's no reason whatsover to think you won't have d/r enough by tomorrow and even if that's the case, what’s the worst than can happen?  They’ll say you haven’t d/r enough and ask you to continue a while longer and then you’ll still be able to proceed to stimming, EC and ET but just a few days later.  I know it would be frustrating but is that really so awful in the great scheme of things?  Try to stay positive hon, I think the fact that you've managed to get funding for this is fantastic in and of itself!  At least you won't be forking out for any extra d/r drugs you might (and I stress MIGHT) have to use....

Perhaps you could ask your clinic to give you their definitions of long and short protocols so you can be sure you're both talking about the same thing?  And as they insisted on the protocol you've described above (regardless of whatever they call it) perhaps you could ask them why they still felt it necessary to d/r you when you've had a poor response in the past?  It’s a moot point now and, to be honest, I think it would be better to wait until the end of the cycle and ask these questions in your follow-up (after you get your bfp!)  But if you feel it would set your mind at rest then by all means ask them for an explanation, it’s part of their job to ensure that the patient understands what is happening and why so they shouldn’t have a problem with it!

Take care hon and good luck with your scan and the rest of your tx    
xxx


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