# Anyone adopted older children or multiple children?



## Guest (Jun 29, 2008)

I'm new here, but was just wodering if anyone else has adopted older children or more than one at once?  

We're in the process of adopting a family of three (8,6 & 4) and it would be great to share with others in a similar situaion.  

Thanks
Bop


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## saphy75 (Mar 15, 2004)

hi hun i have replied on your other thread   

we were approved for 1 or 2 children age 0-5 but we were matched with a baby boy 2 years ago and are now hoping to start the process again for number 2 

pam xx


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## Viva (May 16, 2005)

Hi Bop, 
We adopted 2 children 4 years and nearly 1 1/2 years, there are I think definte defintes to adopting siblings as they have each other as points of reference and I do think that they settled better. Our oldest is the same age as your youngest and I have found that it does help to a point that we can discuss how he feels and explain things more easily although sometimes he does find this hard, both to express himself and to listen to us.
We have found it challenging at times, but it has been very rewarding and there are so many moments of real joy!
All the best.
Viva
X


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2008)

Thanks Saphy and Viva

There are certainly advantages to them being a bit older and siblings as we can talk things through sometimes and the bond with each other helps them all, although when all three play up together it is really hard to get control back.  

DS (6) is the most challenging at the moment; he gets very angry and very aggressive when he is.  We're really struggling to make any progress - we're trying a six munute hug rather than time out, but I'm not sure its working.  He seems to completely blank out "bad" things he has done and can't recall them even a short time later, which makes it all the more tricky to talk it through.  Yesterday whilst we were out he kicked my foot so hard it was so sore I had to take off my shoes; he remembered me walking round the shops with no shoes (and told DH about it later) but couldn't remember why.  The triggers are usually quire small - and often if we say "no" to something (even if we try and say no "gently").  I am also concerned as his younger sister is often the focus of his violence.  Any suggestions gratefully received.  

Bop


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## superal (May 27, 2005)

Hi bop

We adopted our DS when he was nearly 4....he is now a strapping tall boy of 15!!

Time out never worked for us either and we found that it worked best for us to say that we didn't like what he was doing and try to explain why & then say because you've done A,B C you won't be able to play with favourite toy, not allowed to go to the park, something that he loved doing and he soon realised that what he had done was wrong & it worked for us, its different for everyone.

The best thing is to deal with the behaviour there and then as they do soon forget and don't know why they are being told off if it's left for later.

The other thing you could try is to focus on the good stuff and may be do a reward chart.....put a star on a chart for good behaviour and let your DS choose a cheap/small treat that he would like to do..it may be just a trip to the local park/feeding the ducks or an ice-cream of the ice-cream van. 

I know its easier said than done to focus on the good behaviour when he's kicking your foot and it hurts like hell BUT you will get through it and then you have the "teenage" years to look forward to!!!    

Andrea
x


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2008)

Thanks Supercal

We do try and praise, praise ,praise, although ometimes he doesn't like it - so then we tend to tell each other how good he is, or praise the others and that say we can't praise him bcause he doesn't want us to!

At the moment as its school holidays we have a reward ladder based on earning minutes on the Wii - plus 5 minutes for helping, playing nicely etc and minus 5 minutes for "bad" stuff.  Generally the threat of a loss of five miinutes seems to be working, but I am trying to concentrate on the plusses and praise.  They are getting their full hour most days.  

Mostly he is less angry than he was, but when we are having a bad day it is so hard and he really struggles with "no".  At those times he just doesn't seem to be able to calm himself, is unable to hear/listen and the slightest thing will trigger it and as he forgets so quickly we can't talk about it later either.  Tiredness make things worse so we are very strict about bedtimes which helps.  

Thanks again for your advice  - I think we just have to keep plugging away with him. At least its easier to tackle this with a 6 year old rather than a teen!

Thanks
Bop


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## Viva (May 16, 2005)

Hi Bop, 
We are still pretty new to all of this ourselves and certainly don't have all the answers, but physical aggression is something that we do have to manage with Charlie (who is now nearly 5) much of what you have described with your 6 year old sounds very familiar. Charlie is like a little volcano in my opinion and every few days or weeks, depending on how much stress he is dealing with (E.G. he recently started school) the anger, fear and grief that is still waiting to be totally dealt with gets too much for him and he blows, Mummy tends to get the lot normally and it is often physical (although he tells me I'm stupid and that he hates me too) on Monday he was really using me as a punch bag, and I was hit, pinched and bitten! I thought that it might be helpful to share some of the things that we do with him in the hope that some of them might be useful!

After trying different things and making some mistakes this is our present strategy, our underlying value being that violence is a complete no no and that if we can not break this now then ultimate we may have a physically violent teen on our hands who thinks it's acceptable to hit Mummy. As Charlie really tends to be 'out of it' when getting physical and time in isn't an option as Mummy would just be a punch bag, we take him to his room until he (and as is sometimes the case) and I am able to be calm and rational. We do not view this as a punishment rather a safety mechanism to ensure that no one is hurt. Once calm I will sit Charlie on my lap (if DH is home he will join me, but this normally happens when I am on my own) I start by telling him how much I love him (I tell him this lots as we talk) and having a cuddle, I then help him remember what happened, often he can't or won't say what happened, I try and help him identify how he was feeling and tell him that it is not acceptable to hit/kick/pinch/bite whatever even if he is feeling angry/frightened/sad/excited/frustrated etc, I remind him that Mummy and Daddy do not hit/kick/pinch/bite him, in time when I feel he is ready I will add in things in his past that may have led him to believe that this behavious is OK, but I don't feel that he is yet ready for this. I then explain that because this behaviour is so unacceptable that there will be a consequence and explain what this will be (we don't have a set thing but I ensure that it is more than for a minor bad behaviour) for example losing 15 minutes on the Wii. Charlie initally found these conversations very hard but seems to be coping better with them and accepts the consequence as a reasonable result of his action.

Generally I try to do a lot of stuff to build his self esteem (Charlie really couldn't accept praise when he went into foster care) and also to help him develop his emotional intellegence. Need to go and pick him up from school now but will try and post in a bit some things that we have found useful as I do believe that it all contributes to erradicating some of those behaviours that we don't want to see.

Viva
X


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## Viva (May 16, 2005)

Back from the school run now! 

We try and minimise opportunities for Charlie to fail at things at home (as being at school, he gets plenty of chance at not being the best at things). We praise him lots but also make sure that we praise ourselves each other and Lola his sister. I think it's particularly good for children to hear us praising ourselves, E.G. didn't Mummy make a good sandcastle, also look at things you can do together and praise such as baking some cup cakes together and talking about how yummy they are and what a good job you both did. I also do this rather silly thing, I sing a song that I have made up about Charlie and Lola which talks about all the things they do, 'His name is Charlie and he's so clever, his name is Charlie and he's so cool, his name is Charlie he's great at football, his name is Charlie he pulls funny faces and so on and so on until I run out of ideas (I really do sing about anything including putting shoes on, talking about how lovely his hair is or how cute his dimples. Charlie now loves this and often asks me to sing the 'Charlie can do everything song' this may seem to be something that your littlie would not cope with at all, but I hope it is encouraging as only 18 months ago Charlie couldn't accept praise at all. There was also a good article on building esteem in this months adoption UK magazine which I could copy and send to you if you PM me with your address.

In terms of building his awareness of his emotions, I try and get books from the library that look at emotions (I have found the Librarians to be really helpful) and we read and talk about these. You can also look at almost any book and talk about the expressions on the charactors faces or talk about the story and ask how the events might make the charactors feel, we also use this as an opportunity to make sad/happy/cross/grumpy faces, or to talk about what can make us feel like that (although Charlie can't always cope with this) I try and help him identify his emotions, "Charlie you're face looks cross do you feel cross" or "You're jumping around a lot are you excited?" and recently we ask him how he's feeling and he is beginning to answer appropriately. I also discuss how I'm feeling but try and keep negative emotions to neutral objects, 'Mummy is feeling frustrated because she can't find her keys', 'Mummy is feeling cross because it's raining and I wanted to play in the garden with you' but related positive things to them 'Mummy feels really happy because you gave me a lovely cuddle'. I have been really surprised how well this has worked and actually think that he has progressed massively in terms of his emotional awareness and this makes it so much easier when discussing behaviour, I can even ask him now how some things might make Mummy feel, such as "how do you think I feels when you speak unkindly to me? "and he''s say "Sad".

Hope that some of this is of use, it's such a journey and I'm very aware that a lot of the time I don't get things right but we have also seen some big progress in some areas over the past few months.

All the best 
Viva (off to play now as they've finished the post school snack!)
X


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## sundog (Jun 21, 2007)

Viva, just want to say that although we are lucky enough not to be experiencing any of these problems at the moment you have given some fantastic advice which I have saved a copy of just in case I ever need it! Thanks so much and well done, it sounds like you are being amazing with Charlie. 

Bop, sorry to gatecrash your thread and wish I could help but you are getting some fab advice from those more qualified   Keep up the good work, you are amazing being a Mummy to three all in one go! Sending you a bubble or 3  

x


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## ♥ M J ♥ (Apr 17, 2004)

Hi

we have adopted a sibling pair (just waiting to do the court stuff now to make it "legal") our DS is 22months old and DD is 3- they have been with us (in our lives including intros) for 3months now and some days we have lovely time however other days both can be utter horrors!

We went away 2weekends ago (urgent and unplanned) and this through both the childrens behaviour as our "routine" went out the window plus DH had to look after the children alot, DH has not had the children alone until this point!

Our DD can have some cracking screaming tantrums- we have now changed how we handle this- at first we sat her on the "naughty" step/chair/sofa and when she finished screaming/shouting/hitting/kicking ect she got off, said sorry and gave a cuddle and then it was talked about what she did "wrong" and what to do to make it a "good " thing however now we have added that once she finishes her screaming ect and says she is "sorry" we make her stay on there for 3mins and then get her off and this is working well as the screaming ect is alot shorter however it is heart breaking when she does it!

At the moment we are also having "fibs" from her which is hard however i know when she is lying and i have explained i am more upset that she has "fibbed" rather then what she did and fibbed about it!

DD did loose all her toys from both her bedroom and the longue due to her behaviour however is slowly getting them back - she has the ones in her room back now however longue ones she is getting back slowly over the next 2 days and this is working!

xxxx


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2008)

Thanks Viva for your excellent advice - I've got the Adoption UK magazine and liked both that article and the one on attachment.  We will keep plodding way and hopefully things will get easier.  We've been trying to work on emotional awareness, and like the idea of using books to assist - on reflection I have probably been concentrating on negative emotions rather than the full range.  

Sundog - you're not gatecrashing and thanks for the bubbles

MJ - thanks for sharing your story and thoughts too

Sometimes I do wonder if three is too much as its so hard to find enough time for each of them.  DD2 has made the most progress but then she is alone with me most mornings whilst the other two are at school (or were!).  

Bop


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## cindyp (Apr 7, 2003)

Hi Bop

I don't have siblings as I adopted my children separately, my children are a similar age to Viva's 4 1/2 and almost 2.  We have similar problems with my DS who is the eldest as you have to your son, he will act out agressively although it is only ever towards us.  Fortunately he does not hit out at his sister despite provocation.  She is definitely going through the terrible two's and although generally she is great she has a temper if she can't get her own way and will hit him if he has something she wants.  

We are lucky in that we get some support and advice from our LA After Adoption group.  They emphasise what we learnt during out prep course:- that all adoptive children have suffered trauma in some degree, from the trauma of being moved to the trauma of being sexually/physically abused.  Problem is (as we said at an adoptive Mums meet), if we are honest when we are at the prep course although you take in this knowledge intellectually, deep down emotionally you are thinking "this won't happen to me, I will love these children and in the end it will be fine".  Although this is true sometimes looking after these children needs a bit more thought and effort than we envisaged.  Sometimes standard discipline techniques proposed by HV's and Suppernanny programmes don't always work (as I found out  ) and you have to judge what is best for your children. 

I think Viva has given some very good advice (love that song idea, Viva  it sounds like you are doing a great job ).  I haven't got any better answers than the others have given but I will type this.  DH and I recently attended a seminar held by our LA on coping with children who have suffered trauma and this is the page that we have on our kitchen pinboard to try and keep us on track.

    HOW TO HELP

    Environment - low stress, stimulation
    Increase sense of safety, belonging
    Decrease stress
    Increase support - reduce number of changes/moves
    Predictability and consistency
    Structure and routine
    Co-regulation of emotions expressed
    Help to develop emotional regulation and reflective funtions abilities
    Building self-esteem
    Areas of achievement
    May need low level praise
    High warmth, low criticism (highly sensitive to criticism, tipped into shame, "kick off")

Of course this can all be easier than done when you've been woken up at 4.30 and your kids are fighting like mad     It must be hard juggling the needs of three (I find it hard enough with two).  Is there any support near you?  We have a local adoptive Mums and Tots group that meet once a month which is great because we are all experiencing similar things.  Obviously we all try and support each other on this site too but it is nice to meet people face to face sometimes.

I will end this rather rambling post (4.30 wake up this morning  ) with the message our support worker gave to us when we were going through a sticky patch and I was feeling guilty for lapsing out of therapeutic parenting mode:-

"You are not saints, you are not miracle workers, you are parents who love and are trying to do their best for their children.  Your children are lucky to have you and you should be proud of who you are, what you have achieved and what you are trying to achieve".

I think these are words that we should all live by.

Cindy


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## Springtime (Feb 23, 2006)

Hi

How are you getting on? We are in the process of adopting 3 boys under 5! Intros start in a few weeks time.
Spring


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2008)

Well we've not had a good few days - we went on holiday on Saturday for two weeks, but came home yesterday.  

The kids were just not coping and that resulted in some very difficult behaviour from all of them.  DS was very aggressive and was not able to accept no / stop to anything (and was asking for / doing lots of things he knew were a no - almost as if he were trying to create a fight).  The other two were almost as bad - and we found ourselves getting dragged into it and responding angrily.  I did and said some things I really shouldn't have and in the end we decided to call it quits.  

The kids visibly relaxed when we got back and they seem to have returned to "normal" behaviour.  Even DS is less aggressive.

We are left felling battered (emotionally and physically) and wondering if we are good enough to do this.  I read the Daniel Hughes book on attachment and how one girl was helped through therapeutic caring, but I don't think I can do that - I'm just not up to it but that is what they need.  

Anyway, hope everyone else is having a better time

Bop


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## magenta (Nov 2, 2004)

Bop,  sorry I had to read 'n run earlier as I was at work but I didn't want you to go to bed without me taking 5 mins to respond.

Have a huge hug.

I am so so terribly sorry that your plans for a family holiday didn't work out.  I have no real advice on this as our DD is still fairly young (aged3) and we can now do things like holidays etc as long as we do lots of prep work in advance.  I mean real baby stuff about packing her bag together and chosing clothes (which takes hours)...her own bedding coming too...talking about holidays and looking at holiday things to do (making sticker pictures etc) for a week beforehand. it took us 6months before we could do overnights away and we had our first 'holiday' a year after placement. 

Just wanted to add that maybe a 'holiday at home' might work? have heard of american adopters doing 'camp familytime' for a week. they stay at home but each day has a theme and activities and special rewards etc 'today is music day - we are gong to listen to our favourite songs together; make instruments; learn a new song and then watch a musical together'; today is 'sports day' ....like going to camp but with the safety of being at home.

magenta x


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2008)

Thanks magenta

I think we are all much more relaxed now and perhaps with hindsight it was too early for a holiday.  We thought we had done enough preparation but obviously it wasn't.  They were so excited about going, but then it was all too much and that was reflected on their behaviour, particularly DS.  

I have also realised that our two "crises" since we've had the kids have coincided with my PMT time - I  normally get mild symptoms (a bit grumpy for a few hours), but stress, tired and PMT seems to be a particularly difficult combination.  We have ups and downs all the time, I can usually cope and maintain a calm and supportive environment, but earlier this week, I flipped too....and when I did I said some awful things.  I really didn't want to be a mum anymore and told our kids that (and yes I kmow that is probably the worst thing an adoptive mum could say); I have since realised that is what my mum did when she was annoyed with us.  I need to break the cycle, but at the moment, I'm not sure how.  One thing is I think we need to plan in advance and reduce the stress at PMT times - I've not been like that every month, but I'm not sure its purely conincidental.  I am wondering if I need counselling/therapy to help me through this, but am not sure where to look.    

Anyway, thanks for listening and for everyone's support

Bop


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## cindyp (Apr 7, 2003)

Hi Bop,

Just come back on-line and seen your post.  I'm sorry the holiday didn't work out, I can so sympathise as you expect them to enjoy such a nice experience and it's a bit of shock when they don't react as you expect.  As you said, unfortunately excitement is quite a strong emotion too that is sometimes difficult for the kids to manage.  In their brains they can't handle the change in routine.

It's good that you've recognised the trigger in yourself.  Like you I've occasionally reacted in a way that I felt bad about after and then realised (too late of course  ) what triggered off my reaction.  We try and parent therapeutically but it's not the easiest thing to do when you are tired and suffering from PMT.

Have you approached your LA regarding After Adoption support?  Managing three kids is hard enough, managing three that have suffered trauma in their lives is very hard, you like to think that you can cope but we all need help.

Take care
Cindy

PS, I saw you recommending Caroline Archer's Tiddlers book to Tibbelt, have you read her book "New Families, Old Scripts" it's quite good at giving tips to coping with these type of outbursts.  Mind you for some reason it didn't mention chocolate and red wine which works for me and DH


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