# 43 and still trying



## manny (Nov 3, 2009)

Hello all, a lot has gone on since I last logged on, and not all good, unfortunately my dad died in Dec 2009 and just the same month we were due to start the ivf/icsi process at guys acu, and so that meant we postponed it to jan 10 and in march 10 i got a bfn, first ivf cycle usually goes that way for most people from what i understand, but that's a big knock back for me as turned 43 in mar 10 and feel like i am racing against time now. The good thing is that i am a bit wiser on the possible reason as to why this didnt work, the senior doc at the acu told my dp and i that our embryos most probably didnt implant because of a possible chromosomal abnormality. Yes ladies as we get older from 35 onwards most of our eggs can contain them and in woman of my age 50% apparently do. So if they got one of those in the 2 embryos they transferred then that would be the most likely cause for no implantation. Our uterus contains killer cells which work to destroy anything that is not supposed to be there, i.e. chromosomal abnormal eggs, that are "fatal". Obviously one of those can contain the down syndrome disability but not recognised as a potential threat. I produced 7 eggs with stimulation despite losing 2 weeks as my lining was still too thick after the 2 wks sniffing and still thick after another week of sniffing had to take progesterone pills for another week and then ready to inject. So out of those 7, 3 were immature and couldn't do the icsi on them and 4 were injected, 1 didnt respond and 3 fertilised normally but then 1 didnt divide and 2 got to 4 and 5 stage cell division and even though that was not as high as they would have wanted they transferred them all the same saying they would continue to develop. Its a shame that they dont have the technology to see if viable eggs contain abnormalities, they reckon they will in about 10 years time.

So we have started looking at traditional Chinese medicine (tcm) and i understand that most people rave about it and seem to get pregnant a lot from doing the herbs and acupuncture, but my gp is Chinese and does not recommend doing the herbs as they can play havoc with vital organs such as the kidney and liver. He says they are not regulated and do not appear in the British medical journal and not enough studies so not wise to take the herbal teas/powder or pills despite their claims that they come from a reputable Chinese supplier who is a member of so and so. 
So i have had a few sessions of acupuncture and have read it helps to prepare the body for conception and ivf, and if done just before and straight after embryo transfer it can be really effective at helping you get pregnant. So the next stage is to continue with that and do a 2nd cycle of ivf with a higher dose of ovary stimulating drug, ovitrelle I think it was called, they reckon they can put me on a 450 dose as opposed to a 300 dose of it but no guarantee it would work. The plus side is that i produced 7 eggs and that is above average for women of my age. 

I’m now waiting for my next period which normally would have been due anytime between 23-26 April and still no period yet, not sure if ivf tx has delayed it or if I’m pregnant! Guys acu told me to take a pregnancy test if not go my period by this wknd!

Anyway, I think the way forward for anyone else going through what i have is to stay calm, and positive, visualize that it can happen, actually see that baby in your arms, and at home with you and your dp, dh, bf, have acupuncture, lose weight if you need to and exercise. It will and can still happen. I have heard of so many women getting pregnant naturally and thru for ivf at my age, just believe. Good luck to all.


----------



## 1pt (Mar 29, 2010)

Hi Both
Well I am in same age bracket.I did chinese herbs and it did not help.It cost alot and there is evidence that it can cause serious liver and kidney damage.I would advise against it and I have had this advice from a Chinese fertility consultant as well as my GP.
Manny you sound like IVF could be a success.Alot of women our age do not even respond to the drugs.
Good luck whatever you decide.


----------



## malabar girl (Feb 23, 2010)

HI ladies just reading through your post I too feel pg naturally a total of 4 tomes between 42 - 47 all resulted in miscariage. They put it down to old eggs but at least they were doing what they are supose to and let the body dump the bad eggs.

Now I am 49 in May and I am in Athens greece at the moment I have just had Donor egg IVF this morning 2 embie were inserted so I have my twins onbaord. I belive I have tried all the TCM stuff and I did nothing for me. Donor eggs are the only option for my age. The most important thing you can all do for yourselves if to think positive as the mind has a lot of control over what happens to you body. 

Stay positive     and never give up on your dream
Lynnr


----------



## manny (Nov 3, 2009)

Hi ladies 
So nice to hear all your experiences, its good to know there are other people out there going through pretty much the same things as ourselves. Unfortunately if true about 50% of our eggs being chromosomal abnormal then only half a chance of success as the other eggs would be fine, but what is it that comes through as viable the good or bad eggs? they just cant say. Apparently acupuncture can help with achieving a pg, so will continue with that, and a long cycle instead of short as senior doc at guys told us that short cycles are about 1.5% less successful then long ones, and she says to not change too many things from once cycle to next so as to help you track what works and what doesn't. I got my period today as had to test for a pg as my period was over a week late, was hopeful for a bfp   so called the acu to start another cycle again.
Good luck Lynnr with your donated eggs, that is something i would never do so i admire you. I say that now i know but if push came to shove and there were no other options i would have to rethink, i know. 
Thanks wilburjames for your kind thoughts. I'm glad moog that i helped, i know this can be a daunting process, comes with highs and lows, i would really give the acupuncture a go if your'e not already, have a read of how it works its commonly practiced.
Good luck to us all


----------



## mimi41 (Feb 28, 2008)

Hi ladies

Just wanted to give you a bit of hope.  I am 42 and 31 weeks pregnant with my own eggs.  I have had 3 icsis and each time got pregnant but mc'd twice.  If your body responds to the drugs there is a chance of a healthy pregnancy

Good luck to you all


----------



## manny (Nov 3, 2009)

Congrats mimi41


----------



## Rose39 (Dec 9, 2007)

Manny - if your clinic offers it, it might be worth looking into CGH testing to see if that could be a possibility for you. I was going to go that route until in my last cycle of own egg IVF I responded really poorly and the cycle was cancelled. If you're getting decent numbers of eggs, the CGH test will identify which eggs (or embryos as they can test eggs and embryos) are chromosomally normal, so they can screen out the embies which are least likely to go on to create a pregnancy or may result in a miscarriage and only put back the embie/embies with the highest chance of success.

There are several threads with discussions on CGH testing on FF. I was told sadly by a leading IVF consultant that by the time you get to 40 it's only 1 in 6 eggs that are normal. As you can see from my profile (I was recently 41), I've had many IVF cycles, in most of them I had 10 eggs or more and decent quality embryos, but no live births. Had it been available when I started out, I would certainly have looked into CGH testing and the result for me might have been different. I've now moved to donor eggs and am hoping that this will make a difference - for the first time I have frozen blasts waiting for me, which I never had before with my own eggs.

Good luck hunny - there are lots of ladies in their 40's where IVF works. Hoping for good news for you soon!  

Rose xx


----------



## daisy70 (Aug 9, 2009)

Is CGH the same thing where they test some cells from blasts to see whether they have chromosomal abnormalities?  When we went for our follow up after failed IVF the consultant told us about something he called PGS I think.  They take some cells from blastocysts and can identify which ones are chromosomally normal.  Even at my age (43) if they transfer a non-abnormal one it has 40% chance of success because they already know it is chromosomally normal.  The difficulty of course is that at my age there is a fairly small chance of their being any embies that are chromosomally normal.
The consultant also said that although the majority of my eggs are probably low quality there would undoubtedly be some top quality ones there too, and this must be true because of all the ladies you hear about on here who have had happy healthy babies in their forties.
Anyway it does sound like something that might be worth pursuing, although I think personally we are going to stick to the plan of trying with donor eggs next.
Good luck everyone xx


----------



## Rose39 (Dec 9, 2007)

Daisy - CGH is newer than PGD and the success rates are more in the region of 60% if they put back a chromosomally normal embryo, as I understand that PGD is more for people who carry a specific gene mutation that they want to test for (and put back embryos that don't have it).

With CGH, they can test the egg (there is a carbon copy of the chromosomes inside the egg on the polar body which is on the edge of the egg and that is removed and tested), or one cell of a blastocyst. With the eggs that are tested, the embies are left to develop and a normal fresh embie is put back (typically only one embie and at blast stage), where the blast is tested, the blast is vitrified and put back on a FET cycle.

Have a look at this thread for more info:

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=231315.0

Rose xx


----------



## manny (Nov 3, 2009)

Mimi i think there is more of a chance of a pg if you fall pg and mc, then not at all. Glad for you though, who knows miracles can still happen. 
Rose we were told by the senior doc at guys, a lady who is my age, that testing eggs for abnormalities can cause damage to the eggs and not wise to do, but all the same i will ask if she was referring to CGH when she said that.


----------

