# surrogacy and UK laws - going abroad



## saffire (Apr 17, 2006)

Does anyone know the exact laws in the UK for Surrogacy ? Iam thnking of going to Ukraine to do Surrogacy and need to know wbest way to do this without having to go adoption in the UK etc..

I dont know which countries you can do Surrogacy without having to declare anything ?

Does anyone know or have they looked into ?

really need advice form someone who knows, I was told Greece and Russia re the two places you can do Surrogacy ? does anyone know anywhere in greece ?

saffire


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## Flopsy (Sep 18, 2003)

Hi Saffire,

I've only been looking at this for a short time. ISIDA told us that a birth certificate would be done with my DH as the Father and the ED as the Mother. We need a surrogate as well which would complicate matters. Then I would have to adopt the child once in the UK.

Do you intend to use your own eggs and a surrogate?

<snip>
Isida Hospital provides juridical support after baby's birth. The baby is given the birth certificate where ONLY genetic parents are specified as parents. The certificate is legalized and apostilled. This legal service that is provided also by Isida clinic demands extra payment and is not included into the labour package (appr. 450 USD).
<snip ends>

No other info but I will watch this thread. We cannot afford to do tx right now so I have not consulted social services or a lawyer.

Kindest regards,


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## gigi1 (Jun 13, 2005)

I too have been looking into this for a short time. I was not aware that in the Ukraine the DE's name would be on the birth cert.   Sorry for the stupid question. What if you go down the DE route and you give birth at home.

Love 
Gigi


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## Flopsy (Sep 18, 2003)

Hi Gigi,

I don't think that is a stupid question at all. 

I don't intend to discuss our treatment with my GP and if one was to return to the UK pregnant I can't see any reason why your name could not go on the birth certificate. Who would know? It's only a ethical, moral and philosophical question then?

That's my opinion and I'll probably be shot down in flames for it...

Kindest regards,


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## saffire (Apr 17, 2006)

Thnks Flopsy

good info, i will also talk to Isida myself on legalities, who are you dealing with ?

thats a shame, since I was going to use DE and Surrogate, so not sure what implications that has with SS or lawyers here. I have emailed my Social Services people today and so wil let ou know what I find out.

I am not keen to do DE on myself due to fear of mc,  I have had 3 of those and some immune problems NK. So just cannt go through another pregnancy and feel on edge and anxious. However your right thatw ould solve the problem of bringing baby back without hassle of SS, courts, adoption etc..

My DH isnot keen to go through SS and courts for adoption, but I guess we would have to....why are things so complex... ? arggghhh..not happy about all the hoops one has to go through.

Do we have anyone on FF who has gne through Surrogacy and who has any suggestions or idea's for the rest of us ?

saffire


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## Lorna (Apr 8, 2004)

Saffire

> why are things so complex...

Because the laws were written, in 1984/1985 when no one knew what surrogacy was about.
In 1996 the BMA published a report: Changing Conceptions of Motherhood: The Practice of Surrogacy in Britain
And in they said the laws on Surrogacy were "largely irrelevant". This kicked the Conservative government into starting the 1997 review of surrogacy http://www.dh.gov.uk/assetRoot/04/01/43/73/04014373.pdf
They chose 3 experts, one of whom was on record, as saying surrogacy should be banned.
In the meantime there was an election, and Labour got in. Tony Blair's government, let the review stand, and published the report in October 1998. Not surprisingly, with expert(s) who were against surrogacy, the Department of Health made surrogacy even harder.

There was masses of research availed in 1997, and from that you can build up best practice guidelines, which in the US, have been enshrined in law. In the UK we have ignored*ALL* the research, and carried on with a set of laws, that enshrine people's personal prejudices.

Surrogacy, in the UK happens *despite* the law, not because of the law. Huge difference. Things go wrong far too often in the UK, and in the overwhelming majority of cases, the problems could be avoided with sensible laws. Laws based on, research published in peer reviewed Scientific journals, laws developed by users(intended parents, surrogates, etc.), and laws based on what works.

I am now going to make a political statement. The *ONLY* party, that has come out and spoken for sensible reform of the UK infertility laws, is the Liberal Democrats. If you want to do be able to abolish Welfare of the Child, find a donor easily, or do surrogacy without interference, then you need to vote them into power. Whether they will do what they promise once in power is another matter......

I'll get off my soapbox now

Lorna


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## saffire (Apr 17, 2006)

Wow Lorna

Ian voting LIBDEM for someone who has never voted, this has spurred me on,a nd I am actually going to lobby this, you may see my case on TV or hear in the news with the courts...Because Iam going to ignore everything and go ahead anyway, deal with UK and there so called laws later...

Lorna thanks...soooooo much for exlaining this to me, I had no idea that the laws hadnot been revised and that idiot Tony Blair when I wrote to him ignored my lettera nd gave it to Dept or welfare as did Gordon Brown whom I wrote to aswell..

Iam going to get pres and media to back me up on this and you should talk to the independent also if you wnat your views broadcasted, and bloody hell you should. Its people like you who know your stuff that can help others like me who dont and get the media attention on this subject.

Please keep writing and telling us more, may I ask if its not pertsonal, how do you know all this, had you investigated ? and gone through this ?

I would love to hear form you personally and also sned you cntacts of the chap at the independent whom Iam talking to.


best

saffiire


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## Lorna (Apr 8, 2004)

I am going to caution you to follow the rules.  5 second overview of why.
If you turn up at the airport, and your child/children only have Ukrainian passports, your children will be deported.  You might be given 28 days to regularise the situation, but they will be the most stressful 28 days imaginable.  You will need to find a barrister, who will have to present your case in court.
Firstly.  The infertility laws in the UK are a complete mess, so there are lots of people trying to get their cases to court, and not enough lawyers qualified in this area.  *ALL* barristers working in this area, are overloaded, so you will be lucky to find anyone who can take on your case.  And secondly, it will cost a fortune.
If you go to the press, you stand a good chance of having your children taken away from you.  The very worst sin you can commit, in the eyes of social services, is to put your child(ran) in front of the cameras.  It makes you unfit parents in their eyes, and therefore they can take your child(ren) away from you, and there is a possibly that social services may have the children adopted!
How to get round this:  turn up at the airport with British passports.  For this you need to find an immigration lawyer.  If you husband is the right sort of British citizen, he can pass on his British citizenship to your child(ren), and he can apply for, and receive British passports in the Ukraine.  This will give you time to regularise the situation in the UK.
And you do need to that.  If you and your husband were to divorce, and the names on the birth certificate were your husband’s and the donor’s, then you have *NO* right to the children.  He gets full custody, and you can’t even apply for visitation!
Sorry suddenly got very busy.  Hope this clear
Lorna


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## Flopsy (Sep 18, 2003)

Lorna,

Thank you so very much indeed! You have been a great help with both the issues and the politics.

We'll take a closer look if we decided to go ahead with surrogacy.

Much appreciate your input.

Kindest regards,


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