# OE or DE??



## heavenly (Sep 7, 2011)

Hey guys, I know I need to find a clinic and have a consultation with them, which I will be...but just wanted some advice, hear some stories, hopefully positive ones...


I am 46 in a week and OH is 35.

My FSH is 6.7 and I have AF every month and the ClearBlue Fertility Monitor showed I ovulate most months but my FS said he wants me on Clomid for 3 months, says it can't hurt.  If that doesn't work, we are looking at ICSI - OH's sperm, the motility is fine but he has some abnormal forms.

But do we go straight for DE or use mine?    We have to fund the cycle, we haven't got the money for that, so will have to find it somewhere, so it's not like we can have a few goes before going with DE. 

Luckily, OH has no problem with DE, we both feel the same, we want a child, we want to be parents, however we are blessed, is how it is meant to be.  But I don't want to just jump into DE just because my FS said it's not worth using my own because of my age.

Decisions decisions!


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## pmc (Nov 15, 2010)

Hiya,
I am in a similar situation to you. I am waiting to have an NK cell test done, depending on the results I will make a decision if it will be DE or tried with my own. If the results come back as negative, then I know my own eggs are not strong enough, so I will be gojng to Madrid to have DE. The success rate is so much higher, My clinic has a consultant that organises everything for you.

Maybe having the NK cell test done yourself, will help you make the decision. It is so difficult isnt it.


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## heavenly (Sep 7, 2011)

Sorry to sound naive, what is an NK cell test?


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## pmc (Nov 15, 2010)

Hi Heavenly.
I had to ask the same question  

They take a biopsy of your womb lining, and it checks to see if you have killer cells that make you miscarriage or not hold onto embryos.


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## pmc (Nov 15, 2010)

forgot to say, if it comes back as positive, the treatment is to take steroids.


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## heavenly (Sep 7, 2011)

Thank you.  

This site....it's like a new language!  

My head is spinning with it all really, just not sure what to do!!


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## pmc (Nov 15, 2010)

Same here... Just ask lots of questions to your consultant and on here. There is a huge amount on knowledge on this site. It has helped me loads. Good luck


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## cmonbaby1 (Oct 24, 2009)

Heavenly - it is decisions, decisions, indeed - and they are never easy to make!

As Braxma said, the success rates for women our age are unfortunately very low (0.5%-2%).  I accept that someone has to be in this lucky percentile though - so it is indeed possible.  However, the odds are massively stacked against us.

It is a big decision to move from OE to DE, but from the sounds of it you have mulled this over and are both quite comfortable with the DE option.  If that's the case and funds are limited, then a 0.5% chance -v- a 70+% chance is a big of a no-brainer in my opinion.   

Wishing you all the very best for whatever you choose to do.


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## alexine (Jun 8, 2010)

Braxma AMH testing is for quantity not quality....
xA


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## heavenly (Sep 7, 2011)

Thank you all so much for your replies.

It's such an emotional minefield but yes, we do have limited funds so it does seem a no brainer to go with DE, if nothing happens with taking Clomid for the next 4 momths.

I will need to contact clinics and find out about waiting times and costs.  I will consider going abroad as well.


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## Caan (May 24, 2010)

Hi,

I was literally just 42, when I had  my first OE cycle, we made the painful decision to try twice  with OE with the full support of our IF DR, we were given odds of 5-10%. He was very honest and did say  we could go straight for DE, to have a better chance of a baby. Initially, my DH was struggling with IVF full stop anyway, DE was a no, no!! So we had 2 cycles max dose stimms produced 6/ 9 eggs, had three to go back each time BFN. Meanwhile DH came round to the idea of DE, we went on the waiting list when going through our 2nd OE cycle. 7 months after our last BFN, we got a suitable donor and I am now 11 weeks pregnant!!

We wer at a satellite clinic for both our OE cycles and went for follow up after at the main clinic, met a new consultant and she thought we were wanting a third cycle and she would support us, but we made the decision to go for DE, as I would be -43 in a few months

Sorry to be harsh but 46, as you know the chance is small. The stimm drugs are very harsh on our already compromised eggs, if you have limited funds and one chance at a baby and are, 'happy' not sure right word with DE.  I would focus on that route and give it your best shot. Don't get me wrong I do have my moments, that my baby won't have my long legs, sticky out ears. But it will make me it's mother and I will cherish it and love it. Sorry for waffling!!

I hope you have success with the clomid and if you have To go down the DE route all the very best. I am not that knowledgeable but if you need to ask anything about DE process feel free.

Hope I have not upset anyone!!

Caanxxx

PS have you had your AMH done?


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## heavenly (Sep 7, 2011)

Caan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was literally just 42, when I had my first OE cycle, we made the painful decision to try twice with OE with the full support of our IF DR, we were given odds of 5-10%. He was very honest and did say we could go straight for DE, to have a better chance of a baby. Initially, my DH was struggling with IVF full stop anyway, DE was a no, no!! So we had 2 cycles max dose stimms produced 6/ 9 eggs, had three to go back each time BFN. Meanwhile DH came round to the idea of DE, we went on the waiting list when going through our 2nd OE cycle. 7 months after our last BFN, we got a suitable donor and I am now 11 weeks pregnant!!
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for that info, and congratulations to you! 

What was the waiting time for DE and how much did it cost you, if you don't mind me asking. The only thing making me think of going abroad at the moment is the waiting times in this country, but I have yet to ring around any clinics yet. I am going to try the Agora one in Brighton first.

My FS hasn't suggested I get my AMH done. What do you think?


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## Caan (May 24, 2010)

Hi Heavenly,

I was with English clinic can't be too specific, but went on two of their clinics waiting list at £450 a shot!!

Went on one waiting list Dec 2010, but had to be on hold as we were cycling so officially went on Feb 2011, we were offered a good match donor sept 2011, our second choice as a backup, because it was far away went on Feb 2011, offered good match June 2011, couldn't accept due to DH having surgery, then offered another in July not suitable, the clinic did admit not good match but lots of recipients on holiday so couldn't do!! Then third was good match in September, happened very quickly started drugs one week after accepting!!

We were CMV neg so restricted donors, most people positive we could have had positive but have to sign disclaimer, I think chance of affecting fetus minimal, we had a neg donor. We also wanted a tall donor, as at present we have not told anybody and leaving our options open for the child, I have a very tall family. So that was one criteria we wanted to be met, sorry waffling


Just asked DH how much we spent, we think about £65000, we had CMV, blood group, hep b, a, c, rubella, HIV done at GP free!! This would have saved us £500+ also, post BFP had my luteal support drugs free on prescription. 

I know going abroad can be cheaper, just ask on the other threads, I don't think you can trace your donor later on, if that's what you would wish for your child in the future, you need to check that with other ladies. Going abroad was an absolute no, no from my DH, he just couldn't get his head around that.

It appears that some clinics abroad you get more embryos, because your not sharing!!

I would advice you to get on a Uk list ASAP, because the months do fly by, rather than waiting then in six months deciding to go on a list.

I was told to have my AMH done with OE cycles, it was 3.5 rubbish but not 0.0, the rationale was that if it was 0 I would be wasting my time and money cycling. Cost me £65!! if you are going to go straight for DE no need, is irrelevant!! Sorry for big waffle, please feel free to ask me more questions.

Caanxxx


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## Emily1971 (Nov 4, 2011)

Hi Caan
Sorry to but in !  I just had a query and you seem to be very knoweldgeable.  Im CMV negative and will be having a postive known donar which i will have to sign a discliamer for.  What does the negative status actually mean ?  Is it that I have no antibodies to fight the CMV virus if i caught it while pregnant and could pass it on to the baby and if i was CMV postive that wouldnt happen ?

Emily


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## heavenly (Sep 7, 2011)

Caan said:


> Hi Heavenly,
> 
> I was with English clinic can't be too specific, but went on two of their clinics waiting list at £450 a shot!!
> 
> ...


You pay to just get on the waiting list! Flippin' eck.

Also, I am hoping it was a typo but your post says £65,000. I am hoping you mean £6500? 

What does CMV negative mean?

My OH is getting his sperm tested again shortly as his last test was 2 years ago, it showed some abnormal forms, which is why FS has suggested ICSI, but I thought it worth him getting an up to date one, so we know where we are.

Thank you so much for all the info. xx


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## Caan (May 24, 2010)

Sorry very quick post back later!!

Yes £6500!! 

Also, we had ICSI that was £950 (95000!!), that's  included in £6500!!

Must dash,

Caanxxx


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## heavenly (Sep 7, 2011)

Caan said:


> Sorry very quick post back later!!
> 
> Yes £6500!!
> 
> ...


Phew, was panicking a bit there!! 

Later! xx


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## heavenly (Sep 7, 2011)

To update this thread, I have started the 3rd round of Clomid, have only one more after that.

Have been in touch with the Agora Clinic in Brighton, have had my AMH done.  Am going back there in a couple of weeks to discuss test results with the Director of the Clinic.  See whether we have one go at IUI/IVF or go straight to DE.  The waiting list for DE is 2 months to a year, depending how specific your requests are.  I liked the feel of the place and it's only a 20 min drive.

Still scared though.


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## Mellie289 (Dec 9, 2011)

If I was 46 and TTC, I'd automatically go to DE since I too have limited funds. At 41, I feel like I still need to give OE a shot, but I'm only doing IUI. I find it much harder having this ambiguity over whether or not I CAN still get pregnant at this age without going to DE. I spoke to my RE about it and she has said that she doesn't think I should give up and move onto DE yet, but I will give it only a couple more tries tops -- until I turn 42. If I can't get pregnant at 40 and 41, I think 42 will be no better. I really wish I had looked at the statistics much more skeptically at the outset and started out much more aggressively, but I was too scared about twins (now I'd be happy with twins). 

I admire you, heavenly, for starting out being so realistic with DE on the table right away. I find this whole TTC thing scary, particularly trying to do this without a partner, but also about throwing away more money on something that won't work. I can't end up too broke to pursue DE IVF, and that will have to be abroad because I could never afford to do that here in the USA. 

Good luck with your consultation with the director at the Agora.


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## heavenly (Sep 7, 2011)

Mellie, thank you so much for taking the time to post.  If I was your age, I too would be giving my own eggs a good go.  I know what you mean about twins...first thought...scary....then after a while...what a double blessing!!!

I wish I hadn't been so naive when I started TTC at 41 1/2.  My GP got me to have my FSH done and for OH to have a SA done.  She said they were both fine and we should just go with the flow, there was nothing else to be done...and I believed her.  She told me not to waste my money on any tests etc as there was no point.....

Wasn't til I spoke to a friend last year who put me onto a FS, that I realised.  He put me on Clomid, I had a scan with him and I am definitely ovulating on the Clomid, I am getting my AMH done, he discussed IVF with eggs and DE etc.....I wish I had been this clued up 4 years ago.  But it is what it is, no point looking back.  We have 2 cycles of Clomid left, we have both come to terms with, at the end of the day, we want to be parents, how that comes about, whether it's naturally or with help...it will be the same end result, which is all we want.

If I am to go ahead with my eggs, which I know, that is a very slim possibility, we will get on with that straightaway, but if it's DE, we are going to step off the merry  go round for a little while.  Good thing with DE, there is no rush. my age isn't a factor suddenly!      We will save up a bit more for treatment and just go back to TTC naturally but with no focus on sticks...monitors etc....but just to relax, now that massive weight is off me re it having to be naturally, I feel a lot more calm.    We shall see what happens over the next few weeks/months.

I wish you so much love and luck on your journey.  xxx


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## Mellie289 (Dec 9, 2011)

Thanks, heavenly. I was starting to feel quite desperate about the whole situation until I found lots of info on DE abroad and saw that it is affordable and more importantly that it stops the clock! That is so reassuring, so it does remove the panic at least.  I will only do one or two more IUIs, this time with injectibles, to give my own eggs a real shot, but then I will move on, because I want to be pregnant more than I need to be the biological parent. I hope we'll both get lucky that we don't have to go down that route though.


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## heavenly (Sep 7, 2011)

Mellie289 said:


> Thanks, heavenly. I was starting to feel quite desperate about the whole situation until I found lots of info on DE abroad and saw that it is affordable and more importantly that it stops the clock! That is so reassuring, so it does remove the panic at least. I will only do one or two more IUIs, this time with injectibles, to give my own eggs a real shot, but then I will move on, because I want to be pregnant more than I need to be the biological parent. I hope we'll both get lucky that we don't have to go down that route though.


I totally agree with you.


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## latestarter (Apr 1, 2007)

Hi Heavenly,


I just wanted to give another perspective on the DE thing.  There is a lot of hype about DE being the magic answer to old eggs, however even DE does not always work, and it is just something to consider seriously before embarking on treatment.


I jumped into using DE after my 2nd OE ICSI attempt resulted in miscarriage, as I was persuaded by all that this was my fail safe for a successful pregnancy.  However, 2 fresh & 2 frozen DE cycles later and I am still no nearer to motherhood.


You will often see 60/70/80% success rates for DE IVF at clinics, but I think this is a bit misleading as the more I have read about this the less realistic it seems.  The chances of any pregnancy being successful, however it is achieved, is normally around 25%.


I would not want to put you off using DE, as many women seem to be successful with it on their 1st or 2nd attempts.  However, from my own experience (and there are a minority of others like myself), it is worth considering how you could feel if unsuccessful using donor eggs, if this is your back-up plan.


I don't know if you have the money or inclination to try both, but fertility doctors still do not know enough to guarantee a successful pregnancy, even with young eggs.  When these extremely low statistics are given for successful pregnancies in 40 somethings, it does sound extremely pointless to try.  However, we were told we had a less than 1% chance of achieving a pregnancy with my eggs and my husbands sperm, and (at one clinic) around 80% chance of pregnancy with a donor.  We were either in the minority section of both statistics or the statistics need to be viewed as guidance rather than gospel.


I wish you the absolute best of luck whatever decision you make. xxx


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## heavenly (Sep 7, 2011)

latestarter said:


> Hi Heavenly,
> 
> I just wanted to give another perspective on the DE thing. There is a lot of hype about DE being the magic answer to old eggs, however even DE does not always work, and it is just something to consider seriously before embarking on treatment.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your post. I haven't got my head stuck in the clouds, even though it sounds like it some of the time..lol. I know it may not work. We may only have enough funds for one try, so it looks like OE is out of the question. I am trying to stay positive because I suffer from anxiety and it's important I don't over analyse anything or stress out, so whilst I am aware it may not work, I need to think positively about it. If DE doesn't work, we would consider adoption.

Good luck to you also with your journey. xxx


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## latestarter (Apr 1, 2007)

Glad to know you have got your back-up plan and whilst I may have sounded negative about the DE option, it is a very exciting opportunity too   


Best wishes xx


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

I hope you don't mind me chiming in with my experiences over many years here:-

Firstly, clomid is really not a good option for over 40s. It can have a really bad effect on womb lining and can also be anti-estrogenic. It can also affect cervical mucus making it harder for sperm to effectively get through.

Certainly good doctors don't recommend its use over 40 and I am a bit worried that this has been prescribed for you.

Heavenly - I know you know that at your age the chances of a live birth with OE are slim and that is why you are considering DE. If you have the money for one more try with OE, then a much more successful choice would be a monitored IUI cycle using IVF injectibles and either timed intercourse or insemination.

However, I only know one person who had a live birth at your age with IUI and she tried this method every month for nearly two years (with many miscarriages on the way) before success and she already had children. OE ivf is also very unlikely to succeed as you know - although if you have resources you may need to cycle for your own closure which I totally understand.

The other thing I wanted to stress from my own experience is that you cannot rely on DE to solve problems which may be to do with either your DH's sperm or your system. All DE does is address the age of the egg, it won't solve clotting issues etc.

That is why I would really urge you (and others over 40) to ask your GP to do as many Level 1 tests as possible before you embark on a DE cycle. This would include, Thyroid, Clotting, autoimmune, infection, DH sperm, Uterine issues all of which will affect any pg including DE.

Can I also point out that you should not believe you have the luxury of time with DE as much as one would imagine.

Many issues like clotting and thyroid/autoimmune issues get worse over 40 (including DH sperm) and these may affect DE success rates and make the process harder.

While you have a bit more time, I would urge you to get tested and then proceed. I am a single mum of 52 to 5 year old twins, and believe me age is definitely a factor looking after small babies and children!! Don't get me wrong - I am so lucky and delighted to have my babies. In many ways I think age is definitely a plus in terms of my patience etc etc. BUT it does get harder and more dangerous to be pregnant in late 40s especially with multiples.

Basically, my message is to move onto DE with as many tests to eliminate causes of failure before you start. Please see Agate's helful list to give you more info.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=260560.0

If you have read this far then I just want to apologise if this seems too doom and gloom - it is more intended to be realistic and to increase women's chances of succeeding with DE (or OE). I learned so many of these lessons the hard way, and really want other women to experience the luck I had when I got my babies.

Wishing all of you best of luck,

Daisy
xxxx


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## heavenly (Sep 7, 2011)

latestarter - thank you.  xx

daisyg - Thank you so much.    It is so helpful to hear people's experiences.  You have given me a lot of food for thought.  Wonder if I could get those tests done through the NHS or I would have to pay.  Either way, I will mention these tests to the Fertility Clinic on Monday.  OH had a SA done last week, I am picking that up from the GP this week and finding out my AMH on Monday.

Re the Clomid, my FS only wanted me on 4 cycles, I have one more cycle to go - but when I see the Clinic on Monday, I will see what they say, I will mention if it's worth me not taking it for the last cycle.

Thank you and congratulations with your twins!!


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## heavenly (Sep 7, 2011)

daisyg - have tried to PM you but your inbox is full.  x


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Have emptied it now!
Daisyg
xxx


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## heavenly (Sep 7, 2011)

Hey ladies, picked up OH's SA results today. I will be bringing these results to the Clinic on Monday but thought I would pick your brains as well.

From 3 years ago, the total count, motility and morphology have all improved but the volume has gone down.

Volume - 1.0mls (2009 it was 2.5mls)
Appearance - Normal (2009 - Normal)
Total Count - 58 million/ml (2009 - 43 million/ml)
Motility - 60% good forward progression (2009 - 47% motile - moderate forward progression)
Morphology - 92% abnormal forms (2009 - 94% abnormal forms)

Anyone in the know on here about SA - what can he do about increasing volume?


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2012)

daisyg said:


> Have emptied it now!
> Daisyg
> xxx


DaisyG have tried to PM you but your inbox is full


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Empty now!
D


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