# Abnormal Embryos acc. to PGD result over 40



## gnc (Sep 13, 2013)

Hi! I got pregnant naturally when I was 38 but because of preeclampsia I lost the baby. Now I'm 42 and my husband 38. We decided to try IVF. 6 eggs have been retrieved and just 4 of them were matured. All fertilized grade 1. Because of my age 3 days PGD has been done for 4 embryos.Results showed that all was abnormal. 2 of them complete monozomy, 2 of them complex aneuploidy (reached blastocyst). My clinic says If I try again results probably will not change 95%. I asked the other clinic. They said just with 1 try I should not give up. Because I may have %30 chance to find normal embryos in other cycles due to my previous natural pregnancy, all embryos were grade 1 and day 3 PGD may give wrong results (Day 5 PGD should be done). Now I'm confused. Please help! Anyone had same situation any success.Thanks in advance.


----------



## Jacobsmum (Feb 23, 2013)

Hi gnc

firstly, I am not an expert, just someone whose been on their own infertility journey with its own ups and downs.  I am very sorry that you lost your baby to pre-eclampsia. That must have been so hard. And then to have bad news about your eggs... Anyway, IMHO, 6 eggs isn't bad for 42, and if only 4 were mature then all 4 fertilising is pretty good going. I don't know enough about the specifics of PGD (or PGS, or CGH array - I can never remember which is which and what the details are with each). There is a thread on the IVF board about PGD - they might know more about the detail there.

However, two things come to mind. 
1 Cycles can be very different
2 Even if there is only a 5% chance, do you still want to take it?

To illustrate 1 - I have seen examples of AMH going up, FSH improving, egg numbers changing dramatically (for the better) and just different cycles working very differently on these boards, and in my own experience. I had one IVF on 450 units of stims and got 6 eggs (1 fert, no ET as it stopped growing); 4 months later I had IUI which had to be converted to IVF because I over stimmed on 75 units of the same meds over fewer days and got 6 eggs with 4 fertilising and two good embryos to put back. Still BFN, but very different response to similar meds/ cycles in same person.

For 2, I ended up achieving my family using donor eggs and sperm. I am happy with this. But I did an awful lot of trying other routes first. I decided I couldn't justify putting myself through another OE cycle with such a small chance of success - emotionally, financially, and physically I had reached the end point of trying with my own eggs. I then got very very lucky. But I had already done some serious thinking and planning about how much I wanted 'children' or 'my child' in my life, and decided to do one double donor cycle and if that didn't work I had clear plans of moving on, changing career (to have more to do with children - whether mine or not - to have more holidays to spend with the children already in my life (nieces, nephews, friends etc) rather than chasing ones who weren't coming) moving house (fine to have my own baby in a one-bed flat, no chance of fostering without spare room(s)). So what are your priorities? is a 5% chance of things working out differently enough to give it a shot? What choice(s) do you think would cause you least regret - whether they work out or not? 

There is also a thread about trying naturally over 40 that might offer you suggestions/ ideas.

I hope you get more knowledgeable comment from those with experience of PGD, but I didn't want to 'read and run'.
best wishes
Jacob's mum xx


----------



## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

so sorry for your loss that sounds so hard to have had to deal with. 

sorry i don't know about pgd, but i am baffled as to how an embryo can be faulty and still grade 1, and with such good fertilisation. most people don't have pgd and with four grade 1 embies that fertilised well would be putting them back delighted with their progress... 

i had improved results on my second and third ivf/icsi and agree with the 'different results from different cycles' comment by jacobsmum. so you could try again and find the magic egg....but of course the odds remain low... but then i was only given a tiny chance of success and i'm still taking a shot at it... (though scared!) it is a very personal decision.

good luck x


----------



## gnc (Sep 13, 2013)

Thank you for your replies girls. It's really hard to make decision for other shots. Because 2 clinic gives different chances which are 5% and 30%. But both say there are healthy eggs in my body but they can not know which circle they can find them. Emotionally I like to try forever to get my own baby, but financially I don't want to jump before hearing any success in my condition. I will ask for natural ivf but minimizing egg numbers may decreasing my chance percentage. If I decide for another shots and if I can not get positive results then I don't know what to do. Having a baby was my priority in my life all the time. Now I feel like I'm loosing my mind.


----------



## fififi (Mar 16, 2011)

Gnc - sorry to see that you lost your baby, that makes this step so much harder for you

I haven't had specific testing done on our embryos but my IVF cycles (age 40-42) all produced top grade embryos. My consultant was so astounded as getting day 5 grade A embies is rare at any age, let alone for over 38.
We always had excellent fertilisation of 100% so all looked great but sadly either a BFN or MC following.
Entering into a cycle as a new patient we were given 5% chance of success. Once we got to blasts this was raised to 30%. For cycles now, based on our history we've been given a 15% chance.
For us a 5% chance was worth taking but after 4 years of cycles we've still not got a baby. The percentages are guidance and our clinic have always been straight with us that the odds are against us but equally there is still a reasonable chance.
We've now moved to DE as this improves our chances of getting a healthy baby immensely. Not only are the chances of pregnancy increased (45%) but risk of miscarriage greatly reduced too (about 15% instead of 45%). It has been hard to walk away from trying with my own eggs because there is a chance there - I'd rather we'd been told we had no chance! - however for me, knowing that next cycle is with way better odds is becoming a happier feeling.

Ps. Embryo quality cannot be 100% accurate without testing like PGD etc the grading clinics do is based purely on what the embryologist can see from how the cells have formed. What is a perfect embryo by day 5 can go on to have abnormalities as it develops. By not testing you are unable to know what will happen long term and I imagine miscarriage rates for embryos tested via PGD is much lower than those not.

Pps. My clinic now has cameras that film the embryo as it develops to aid the embryologist in his/her decision. This is currently being researched as to whether beneficial or not but may well be a cheaper option for you if you wanted another try with OE

Best of luck to you & hope you reach your dream soon


----------



## gnc (Sep 13, 2013)

Girls I tried 2 more cycles and We did Microarray CGH cromosome test just for embryos which are reached the blast level. And in 6 blasts there were 3 normal embryos. I was absolutely not expecting this after my previous clinic recommended me to go on with donor eggs as I explained above. I think I won the lottary for now.


----------



## alexine (Jun 8, 2010)

Hang in there GNC!!    
xxA


----------



## Keeping busy (Apr 13, 2011)

Absolutely fantastic news, good luck. Just out of interest what clinic did you use? Xxx


----------



## bundles (Jul 16, 2011)

Great news GNC   keeping everything crossed for you  
xx


----------



## fififi (Mar 16, 2011)

gnc - brilliant news re your embies.
Have you had embryo transfer of them too? Hoping you will be returning soon with news of your BFP


----------



## gnc (Sep 13, 2013)

Thanks for all of your good wishes ladies! I hope good luck and miracles to all of us. But from my experience I like to share below mentioned points for over 40.

-Search and choose best experienced clinic and fighter doctor 
-Prepare yourself with  omega 3 fish oil, royal jelly, Zinc, Q10 enzyme before stims
-Check your blood results for all vitamin and mineral levels take action accordingly.
-Absolutely ask for Microarray CGH 24 cromosome test for your blast on day5 instead of PGD (7 or 9 cromosome test on day 3. Because as I learnt embryos correct themselves in 2 days till day 5.
-Gradings of embryos and blasts do not mean too much. Because best looking embryos and blasts may have cromosome problem
-Do not decide for donors before being sure at least 6 of your blast are cromosomely abnormal
- After 40 till 45 genetically normal embryos percentage is between 15% and 25%. Just Nobody can know which cycle your body will give chance them to show up. So If you are not having financiall problem keep trying (If your and partner do not have big karyotype issue. But  there is a still more little chance). I know that's kind of lottary but that worth. 

A lots of love and hugs

XXX


----------

