# 3 failed IVF attempts - should i change clinics?



## nicpic

I have just failed my 3rd IVF cycle. The second resulted in a chemical pregnancy but 1st and 3rd failed to implant. Friends have suggested changing clinics but based on no real facts, only running out of things to suggest i think! I don't want to rush into changing as i have got to know the team at my clinic and feel comfortable there. I also do trust their judgement but wondered if anyone else has switched clinics just due to failed cycles.
Also does anyone have success stories past 3 cycles? Am 38 with apparently good quality eggs. 
Previous to this had an ectopic pregnancy in 2007 and lost a tube. 2 chemical pregnancies in 08/09, 4 months on chlomid with no success.


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## ophelia

Hi,

I changed clinics twice, I had 4 attempts at my local clinic then 4 attempts in Turkey, then changed clinics again to one in Sweden which finally resulted in my son.

I just felt after a few goes at one clinic the doctors there were losing hope of it ever working for me so decided to start afresh at a new clinic with a positive outlook and new positive hospital staff.  

Also different clinics do different protocols. My first clinic only did one kind of protocol at the time with only one type of meds with highest dose being 300iu. Basically one size fits all  type of protocol but obviously it doesn´t work like that as we are all different and respond different to the meds.
It took me a few different protocols/mix of meds and doses to get a protocol that suited me to help me produce quality eggs. I´m a poor responder and only got a couple of eggs  each time but my last cycle resulted in 7 follicles and 5 eggs which was a lot to me. (again, that´s the cycle that gave me my son)

Anyway, to answer you question, yes you can get successful even after 3 rounds of treatment. I had 9 attempts at ICSI before I got lucky with a sticky pregnancy.

I was 36 1/2 when my son was born, I will be 38 when this new baby is born so with you being told you have good quality eggs I am sure you have every chance of a successful treatment resulting in a baby.  

Good luck!
Love/Ophelia


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## marieclare

Nic, I think if you are comfortable with your clinic and feel happy with your treatment then changing clinics might not be the first thing I'd consider. I think it depends if you are confident that your doctors have a good plan for you based on your previous responses and that you feel they are willing to make changes to reassure you that you can get a positive outcome. 
A change might be just hat you need but there's also a lot to be said for being comfortable and knowing the team who will look after you. 
I changed clincs after 2 failed cycles but this was because my original clinic stopped taking private patients. The new clinic I went to was set up by people from the old clinic so it was lovely having familiar faces looking after us. 
The other thing I think helped was a I went through loads of posts on here and made a big list of the treatment options and drugs which I thought would benefit us, and went through it all with the clinic who basically agreed to most of it, which really helped give me my pma back.
Best of luck whatever you decide xxx


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## nicpic

Thanks for both of your responses. They really helped.  I feel like  i have covered everything within my control (given up stressful job, lost weight etc) so was confident it would work this time around so am pretty devastated.  The only problem they  have found with me after the last cycle is that i have anti nuclear antibodies but they are confident it is treatable and have been on aspirin, steroids and clexane to hopefully beat it. We see our consultant on 12th Jan so i think I will listen to what he has to say and what changes he plans before making any rash decisions. I am not sure what other general tests there are available to ascertain implantatation failure?

Thanks again - my first time on any forum and it certainly makes  you feel better hearing opinions from people who genuinely understand!

xx


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## karenanna

Hi Nicpic

I also felt comfortable with my original clinic, but after 4 failed cycles I decided to try something different .... As you can see it was 5th time lucky for me and I now have 2 gorgeous 8 week old twin boys.

I was treated for natural killer cells - so baby aspirin, steroids and clexane, but I also had IVIG treatment as well. The clinic I moved to was also very proactive in monitoring you whilst you were stimming - I had daily blood tests and then twice daily tests from day 5, as well as, scans every 2/3 days. They changed my medication daily to get the best quality embryos and no stone was unturned. My clinic also monitored my progesterone levels post ET - they were fine at ET but plummeted post ET and I need extra supplementation with gestone as well as cyclogest.

If you want to look into additional tests I would check out this board - there is lots of info on there - I had the Chicago tests listed - http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=52.0

You could also look into chromosone testing - PGD as this can be a reason embryos don't implant.

Sending you lots of  

Karenanna xxx


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## nicpic

thanks karenanna and congratulations on your beautiful babies. I see you went to ARGC and have had that recommendation before. Its such a hard decision this one i think. Maybe am overthinking it a bit but want to do it with a postive frame of mind!. Quick question - did you request all previous records from your first clinic and were they ok with that or do they start from scratch at the new one? 

Nicpic xx


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## mel34

Hi nicpic,
I think that if you feel comfortable at the clinic you are with and although may have lost some confidence in them, still think that they deliver high quality service and professional treatment, there is no real reason to switch.
Have you checked their success rates on HFEA? When I chose my clinic it was really out of location considerations and I was lucky enough that the clinic I am with is considered a good one with high success rates.
I have only had one IVF cycle so far and although I have been very impressed with their service, the negative result led to having some questions about what went wrong and could have this been done differently. I am going to have a meeting with the consultant soon to discuss, but it is quite clear to me that I am going to stick with them for the next cycle as I know that life can be unfair and and frustrating and sometime you just can't blame anyone.
Do your best research and be happy and confident about the next stage treatment plan.

Best of luck and lots of   and  ,
Mel xxx


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## prayingforthetictac

Hi Nicpic, 
We have similar history. I'm 38, have one completely blocked tube - although test haven't shown antibody probs. Apparently apart from tube and age I should be able to conceive naturally but 3 yrs ttc, 1 op, 2 scrapes and 2 failed ivfs proves that even with a good diagnoses you need luck.

I really agree with Marieclaire. If you feel comfortable and confident with your team then maybe sticking with them isn't so bad. However, I'm in the middle of my 3rd IVF. I had 2 at one clinic and then changed - but I had suffered a little loss of confidence in the first clinic. (It has below average success rates and had only been offering blasts for 9mnths prior to my treatment - which yielded bad results.) 

Like you I have given up work - IVFing is now my day job! I saw 2 clinics (highest success rates in country) for consultation to help me make the decision and both said from my case notes that it was luck and keep trying. (Yes I got copies of my complete history as I wanted my new clinic to make a tailored informed decision on me) 

Anyhow this 3rd attempt has resulted in a BFP  I am nervously awaiting a scan as have had 2 episodes of spotting. I put the BFP down to luck and how experienced this clinic is at blast - previous clinic had 11 embies only got 1 very bad blast, new clinic got 14 embies, 8 to blast 1 best quality and 7 good quality.

A doc at my clinic said that they would suggest to someone like me to keep going until 5 attempts. After this IVF can still work but your chances are very low (however still a chance!) Also read a forum where the women was our age and her husband was a computer science/boffin and put stats in a computer program  to work out how many attempts they would have to have on average to succeed and it came back with 6.

Wishing and praying you only need to go through stressful ivf 4 times.


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## nicpic

thanks all for taking the time to respond and your advice. My original clinic was largely based on location and was already with them after problems following an ectopic and rather naively i did not research success rates really although having done so now i worry that they could be misleading as they are not specific enough and have tried not to get too hung up on them . If i switch to one miles from home then it could make the end to end process more stressful in terms of getting there if any issues etc - that's my main worry with changing to one of the london ones. 
My consultant also says with me it is about luck and no reason why it should not work but after 3 fails it gets harder to believe it suddenly will!  
Prayingforthetictac - the best of lucK. Fingers crossed for you and thanks for the scientific stats. I'm very much a facts and stats person so find it difficult when there are no fact based answers at times! (ex project manager! 
xx


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## daisyg

NicPic,

I absolutely would change clinics as this one does not seem to be proactive in investigating why you appear to have had 3 miscarriages and failures and you have also had ANAs detected which is a red flag for autoimmune issues.  At the very least, I would book a second opinion consultation with ARGC and/or Lister.

ARGC at least would be able to do some further testing for you.  Many basic miscarriage and implantation failure testing can be done by your GP.  Uterine and immune testing can be done by ARGC, Lister, Care Notts and Dr. Gorgy.  However, you may have more basic issues as NK Cells, cytokines, DQA are much rarer causes of failure.

Here are reasons why ivf fails - you and DH really need someone to go over these basics to find out whether they are causing your failures.

Uterine - no fibroids, polyps etc.  Do you get good lining with triple stripe?  
Karyotype - Have you and DH been karyotyped for genetic issues? (Can be done via GP or clinic)
Thyroid - Have you had TSH, T3, T4 and antithyroid antibodies measured?  Was TSH between 1 and 2 (Can be done by GP)
Clotting screen - can be done by GP
Autoimmune issues (Thyroid, RA factor, ANAs, lupus anticoagulant etc) Can be done by GP
Infection for you and DH (Chlamydia, Ureaplasma, mycoplasma, Group b Strep) GUM clinic/GP
Immune issues (e.g. NK Cells, Cytokines, TNfa etc) Needs specialist referral and lab.

When did you start the steroids and clexane?  They really should be started on day 1 for FET at approx day 6 of cycle for fresh IVF to be properly effective.

I personally believe a consultation at one of the top clinics would be really helpful as you clinic do not seem to be investigating effectively and time is not on your side (sadly).

Best,
Daisy
xx


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## prayingforthetictac

Hi Nicpic,

I can understand the issue of location. I'm always boarderline OHSS so have daily blood tests and scans while stimulating - record is 7 in 7 days. A lot of visits to the clinic! However, as I don't have a job, and so am not stressing about getting back to work, I just looked at it as something to do on my Ivfing daily 'to do list'. (Have also worked as a project/account manager, so love a list, stats and numbers).

I shortlisted ARGC, CRGH and Lister. All are meant to be very good (I found this from researching web for success rates and comments). I paid for a consultation with CRGH and Lister. We decided ARGC would be our last attempt clinic as it is meant to be 'extreme IVF'.

Lister is lovely in that very private hospital feel and staff are great (also personally know 2 women aged 40 who have got pg there). However, I went with CRGH as the consultant I saw was bent on doing more test and after 2 failed attempts I wanted to check there were no 'secondary' causes for the repeated implantation failure (RIF). Also CRGH was the one my instinct told me to go with. Sometimes it is all we can go on.

Researching on the internet will give you tearful and hopeful moments - as you will read things that set your mind off one way or another. However, I'm a bit of a control freak. So, after 2 failed attempts I knew I had to become informed so that even if I never got pg at least I knew I had tried my all. (The first 2 times I had just went with the flow as didn't want to get stressed with all the details and become a control freak.)

 and   for 2011.


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