# Why go abroad?



## scoobylyn (Sep 28, 2006)

HI

We had an abandoned cycle (poor responder) at  clinic in Cambs. I would be interested to know why people choose to go abroad rather than the UK. Is it because they seem more thorough abroad? I have read so many bad reviews of UK IVF being money grabbing or not up to speed where anti-rejection drugs are used. Be very interested to hear everyones views.

Many thanks

Lyn


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## BettySpaghetti (Sep 21, 2006)

Hi Lyn,

If I am completely honest I went to Poland for my treatment for financial reasons.  Even taking into consideration hotels and flights it was cheaper.  When my first treatment in the UK wasn't successful and we found out they hadn't been quite as informative as they should have been, I started looking on FF and stumbled across the abroadies site.

You need to ensure you consider everything before you make the decision to go abroad, things like both you and your dp being able to take the necessary time off work and possible language barriers.  If you ever want to consider this as an option the girls on the abroadies boards are always v. v. helpful

I found those 2 things a little difficult in the end, so am now waiting for an initial consultation at a new clinic in London that a friend of mine also went to and recommended.

Good Luck,

BettySpaghetti x


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## Morvern (May 16, 2005)

Because we need a donor egg and the waiting lists in this country are too long. But also because our UK clinic totally messed up my last IVF cycle and didn't test my blood when they should have done meaning that I ovulated before retrieval. I really have not been impressed by the treatment I've had in this country.

Another lady told me that, at her Spanish clinic she had an  initial appointment with her consultant that lasted over two hours where they went through everything and had a large battery of tests. In the UK I was lucky to get 20 minutes with the consultant and hardly saw him again - I just kept getting messages about what he'd said from various nurses.

Also, regardless of the waiting times the success rates are much better abroad. For donor egg treatment the success rates at my local clinic are 30%. At my Spanish clinic they are in excess of 60%. And it's cheaper.

Hope that helps.


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## earthe kitt (May 7, 2005)

Poor quality inconsistent care, seeing a different doctor at every appointment, generally feeling ripped off by clinics which are more interested in their stats than in getting me pregnant - that's my experience of 4 clinics and £25K in the UK
I had excellent, first class treatment in Poland and at least half the price of any treatment cycle in the UK 
Warsaw is also lovely in the summer  

Jo


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## crusoe (Jun 3, 2005)

I had treatment at a Cambridgeshire clinic too - I suspect it is the same one.
I chose to go abroad after this because of the huge waiting list for egg donors, the general apathy on the part of the clinic to try and recruit donors, the fact the clinic didn't use ICSI on our donated eggs (and therefore basically wasted them), confusion over drugs (they changed the dates and protocol 3 times prior to treatment) a terrible counselling session that the clinic insisted on where the counsellor did ALL the talking and a general lack of support following a negative result.
Add into this the HFEA who don't appear to want anyone to have a baby and I will NEVER have treatment in the UK again.
The Spanish clinics I have attended are professional, successful, sympathetic and communicative - totally different to the UK.

Love and luck
Crusoe


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## Morvern (May 16, 2005)

*Crusoe*

Sorry this is a bit of a digression from the thread topic, but what did the counsellor say to you? I'm just interested to know because as we're going abroad obviously we don't have to have counselling. I take it it was nothing earth shatteringly important?

Thanks
Morvern


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## Guinness (Feb 27, 2006)

Hiya

I chose to go abroad for my first ICSI cycle purely for financial reasons and the fact that the clinic I chose had no waiting list, so I could choose when to start rather than when a doctor in the UK could fit me in!! Also we have a friend who is married to a Turkish guy who told us how important it is to the Turkish people to give everyone the chance of having a baby and that the clinics were clean with the most up-to-date equipment.

My first cycle was at the Jinemed Hospital in Istanbul. The care I received there was amazing - I was treated as a person rather than a number. All of my scans were done by a doctor so any concerns I had were answered straight away! They are also allowed to transfer more than 2 embryos which increase your chances of it working (ok, it also increases the chances of a multiple birth so some people might not agree with doing this). I saw the same nurse each time I visited the clinic and she did all of my injections for me so I had no worries about mixing up drugs, where to do the injections, etc. 

The next 3 cycles I had were done at a London Clinic - the only reason I didn't go back to the Jinemed was down to the time off work. I saw the consultant once each cycle and the rest of the time just saw a nurse. They had a dedicated scanner but I would have much preferred to have had them done by a doctor. There was definitely no comparison to the treatment I received in Turkey.

I am now back at the Jinemed. They have made it easier as you can have your baseline scans and start your injections in the UK - they work in conjunction with a consultant at the Portland Hospital - so you now only need to be in Istanbul for a week to 10 days. You can book a room at the hospital rather than stay in a hotel so you have no worries about getting to and from the clinic. They do a 3 cycle package which is extremely cheap but the quality of care is not compromised. 

One last point... in the UK you have to pay for ALL extras. At the Jinemed ICSI is included in the price of IVF (it was an extra £900 at the London Clinic), assisted hatching is included (an extra £450 in the London Clinic) and blastocyst transfer is included (again, an extra £450 in the London Clinic) and you have nothing like a HFEA fee to pay and it still works out so much cheaper than the UK.

Hope this gives you a thorough answer to your question  

If you or anyone else would like to know more, pm me and I'll get back to you. I have also been able to arrange a discount for people going to the Jinemed and I know that every little bit helps!

Take care
Dee xxx


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## scoobylyn (Sep 28, 2006)

Thanks for all the replies - can everyone give me an idea of the costs for IVF with and without donor eggs. I'm also a but worried about where to have baseline scans done etc. Also what are the costs of drugs?

So far Invimed is coming up well and also Jinimed......  keep 'em coming.


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## crusoe (Jun 3, 2005)

Morven

The counsellor asked us if we had thought through the fact that any child we might have would not be biologically related to me!!  After 2 years of waiting to get a donor I was stunned that he could think for one minute that we hadn't thought through our decison!! He then proceeded to waffle on for 30 minutes - about what I can no longer remember but I do know it was absolutely totally pointless. At the end he said he was happy for us to procceed to treatment. I don't know on what basis he made that decision because honestly my husband and I did not get the chance to say more than about 20 words between us.
The whole thing was a waste of time. The clinic insisted on it and claim it is "free" but of course it's not it's just hidden in the cost of the treatment. I was furious about it and welcome the fact that overseas clinics don't want you to have counselling. If at anytime I decide I need it I am quite capable of finding myself a counsellor to help me.

Please don't anyone think I am slagging off counselling per se. I'm not, I had counselling when my first marriage broke up and found it helpful but this session was really, really poor!

Crusoe


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## Morvern (May 16, 2005)

Crusoe -  I love the fact that he asked if you'd thought about it!! I wonder if anyone ever says, "Actually no, I've never thought about it - in fact it had never crossed my mind until you just mentioned it."

Thanks - you've kind of confirmed what I suspected. I don't think we'll bother.


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## Morvern (May 16, 2005)

Scoobylyn

Look here for ideas about costs at Spanish clinics: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=95846.0

IVF without donor eggs will obviously be less.


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## alanelaine (Sep 10, 2005)

Ahem (moment of shameless self promotion), we wrote this article for Infertile World in Januay which may provide you with some help.

http://www.infertileworld.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=471&Itemid=32

As far as clinics are concerned, Altra Vita in Moscow costs around 5,500 to 6,000 Euros. We can give this clinic our unqualified support as they have been fantastic and the recent results (on the Moscow thread) have been highly encouraging.

A&E

Note - having forgotton to put up the link initially, I now find that said article is the subject of a rather heated debate on another thread.


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## Guinness (Feb 27, 2006)

Hi Scoobylyn

Unfortunately the Jinemed can't do treatment with donor eggs as its illegal in Turkey. They have a clinic in Kosovo that the Professor travels to every 2 months to perform donor egg treatment - I checked with them recently and was told it would be £3000 but then you have to pay for your accommodation (65 Euros per night and you'd need to stay for a week).

Check out their website for costs using your own eggs www.ivfturkey.com - they do an IVF package price which includes 17 days worth of double room hotel accommodation for £3,000. This price includes airport transfers, ICSI, assisted hatching and blastocyst transfer as standard - I need to check again to see if this includes medication. They fly you over in time for the start of your period so you have your baseline scan at the Jinemed. I split my treatment this time between their colleague at the Portland Hospital in London and had my baseline scan/follicle tracking/blood tests in the UK, flying over to Turkey after 10 days worth of stimming which means I only have to stay in Turkey for 10 days so it was less money (I'm having PGD this time otherwise I probably could have only stayed for a week). 

Let me know if you want any further info. I could probably get you a discount there as well if you were interested at any time.

Best wishes
Dee

/links


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## Guinness (Feb 27, 2006)

Hi

I've just had confirmation from the Jinemed that their package price of £3000 also covers medication.

Best wishes
Dee


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## MummyP (Jan 24, 2007)

Hi everyone,

Can anyone tell me if Turkey and Spain have any legal issues or shortage problems with Donor Sperm?

Many thanks
Mummy P


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## Guinness (Feb 27, 2006)

Hi MummyP

Unfortunately the use of donor sperm in Turkey is illegal. The Jinemed have a clinic in Cyprus that they can use if you need donor sperm. I don't think Spain have any problems with donor sperm but I'm sure someone who knows more will answer your question.

Best wishes
Dee


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## Ruth (Aug 6, 2004)

No problems in Spain with donor sperm.

Ruth


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## MummyP (Jan 24, 2007)

Hi Dee and Ruth,

Many thanks for your replies.   

Wishing all the luck in the world with your journey's

Mummy P


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## FLORAF (Jun 3, 2007)

Hi Lyn and all,

I too am at the start of ivf using donor egss at a private clinic in Cambridge. Waiting list are not a problem: I've been told I could start this month if I wanted to. I'm going for a consultation in Spain next week and am seriously considering having treatment there. To be honest finances are the top reason, but also I have some doubts about the clinic, and the lack of in depth testing (although I am not sure what I should be expecting ... ) and the 'rush'  just get me going

I have found NHS support in the UK pretty dopey. I am sure that the clinical procedures etc are of good quality but there is no linking up with GPs, no time for real consultation and there's never a clear way forward presented. 

I'd love to hear others' experiences and what you think if other clinics you may have looked at.

Thanks!

J


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