# Managing rough behaviour



## sundog (Jun 21, 2007)

Since LB came home we have been in regular direct contact with his 2 brothers who are adopted together not far from us. They are ages 2 and 3.

Their Mum is concerned by some of the behaviour that the boys are exhibiting so I have offered to ask you knowledgeable chaps for some advice. It is also in my interest as there is a possibility that LB may have inherited some of the same tendencies  though I am doing all I can to promote his sensitive side.

Both boys can be very loving and gentle, but at the flick of a switch they can suddenly lash out at other children, ranging from babies to 'big boys'. The 2 year old pushed 3 little girls over the other day, one after the other and as a result got quite a telling off from the girls' Mum who spotted it first. He does say sorry when told but will quite happily go on to do the same thing again.

The boys Mum tends to use 'supernanny' style discipline but I remember being told at prep that this way is not good for adoptive children. Whatsmore, this just doesn't seem to be working for them.

Just a bit of background; both boys were in one foster home from birth and adopted individually at an early age. There have been no attachment problems that we are aware of. 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks

sundog
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## cindyp (Apr 7, 2003)

Hi Sundog

Unfortunately some boys can be like that, my DH works in a school and boys often tend to be more aggressive and rough with each other. If the kids weren't adopted I would say the Supernanny techniques are the ones that are recommended in most of the toddler taming books I've read.  My DS was the same at their age and unfortunately I also used the Supernanny approach which didn't have any effect.  Our son was in the same foster home from 3 months and adopted by us at 13 months, because he was so young we didn't have any thoughts about attachment difficulties.  The mistaken impression we got from our prep course is that attachment problems affect those that had been sexually/physically abused or taken from their parents at a later age.  We now know different.  

Children can be affected in the womb by parental substance abuse.  Although they might be fostered from birth if there is any contact with birth family this can also affect them.  With our DS there were more signs than rough behaviour but in our ignorance we did not recognise them.  Following DD's arrival we discovered that he has attachment issues and are trying to deal with them.  Although he is biologically 4 and intellectually he sometimes seems older, emotionally he is still at the toddler stage.  It could be that LB's siblings are the same, maybe they are emotionally like toddlers and are not being malicious but just experimenting like toddlers do.  Toddlers will just go up and push another child to gain that child's attention because they know no better.

Without knowing the children personally it is hard to know what to suggest.  I know that we just have to be firm with our DS and tell him to stop when he is being rough or to distract him in the same way we would his younger sister.  It is easier said than done (and I am speaking from experience) but trying not to raise your voice, staying calm and as you said encouraging the more sensitive side is the best approach.  The worst thing is the embarassment, I remember taking DS to a softplay area when he was about two and he just kept going up and hitting other children in an almost casual manner.  You just have to learn not to worry about what others think, apologise if their children are hit but that is as far as you can go.  My DS did grow out of it by the time he was 3 although he is often rough with us he is not rough with strangers. 

All I can suggest is that your friend tries (and again I know it easier said than done) not to let it get to her too much.  Again like toddlers there is likely to be an element of attention seeking in the behaviour and reacting too strongly can reward the behaviour.  As you would with a younger child, move them away from the situation, tell them firmly that the behaviour is not nice and will not be allowed, involve them in something else to distract them.

I'm sorry if I've waffled on in a garbled way, it's not the easiest thing to explain.  I hope your friend finds things get easier as they get older.

Cindy


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## Ruthiebabe (Dec 15, 2003)

Hi,

i meant to reply to this earlier, but haven't had time till now. Like Cindy said little boys love to rough and tumble. And in many ways I'm sure in the right context its good for their development. Boo is no exception to this, but to manage it we do a few things that seem to help. We use what Boo calls the naughty step and we call the cooldown step for when he is too wild. But tbh we rarely use it anymore because Boo seems to have learned where the limits are. We were told on our parenting adopted children course that its is fine to use this, but think carefully where the step/spot should be as sending children out of the room may bring up anxietites for them. 

The two others things we do is that we tire Boo out. It sounds obvious and your DS's-siblings-mother probably already does this. but even if its raining we try to get out in the fresh air for an hour. It really makes Boo a lot calmer. 

We also have it set that Boo can do rough play with daddy, but not with me. Its not that I'm some sort of  delicate rose (I play rugby!) but it works in that he knows that with some people its fine to rough and tumble and with some its not.

Otherwise what cindy was saying about being really firm and consistent when the behaviour emerges.

One other thign that comes to memory from the course we did was from a mum with 2 adopted boys and that was a sticker chart for "nice playing". So she had the day broken up into sections of about 2 hours (like breakfasttime, then mornign till snack time, then snacktiem to lunchtime etc). And it was stickers for nice play and a sad face when the rough behaviour was used. You'd only do it for a week or so, but she reckoned the message sunk in pretty quickly.

I hope some of this is helpful,
xruth


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## ♥ M J ♥ (Apr 17, 2004)

Hi

just ref the sicker charts i found these and think they are fab- the personalised bit does it for me (cos my full name is unusual and i never can get some personalised unless made to order!)

They have lots of charts on Ebay however here is one for show

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BOB-THE-BUILDER-Personalised-REWARD-CHART-STICKERS_W0QQitemZ190201411850QQihZ009QQcategoryZ109232QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

/links


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## sundog (Jun 21, 2007)

Thanks to you all for some good advice. The message I am getting is that this is not necessarily unusual behaviour, but it certainly must feel like it is only you when it is happening.

Cindy, I think where the eldest is concerned, he may have regressed a little when the second came along as they arrived in quick succession and may be emotionally less mature than the younger one. I think there is certainly an element of testing Mum to see how she will react and sometimes I think Mum anticipates problems and inadvertantly plants a seed in their heads!

Boo, I am glad that you have found the step is working and hardly needed anymore. A good point about not separating the child from you too much so as to heighten their anxieties. I do know that Mum structures her days around wearing the boys out - I don't know where she gets the stamina! It is a good point though. Unfortunately, the time I described was at a soft play area and I think trhe pushing became part of the workout! I think your idea about learning that you can have rough fun with some people and not others is a great one and delicate or not, it must spare you some bruises  

Thanks for the sticker chart suggestion and for the link MJ - loads to choose from on there. I was thnking of ordering a couple for them as a surprise, but on second thoughts, I think it might be something that Mum could involve the kids in. Great idea, I don't think she has ever tried that so well worth a go!

Has anyone ever used praise or consequences to help this sort of problem? I was struggling to think of an appropriate consequence for shoving someone or bopping them on the head! The boys will say sorry and kiss/cuddle to make up, but it doesn't change the behaviour 5 seconds later!

sundog
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## Ruthiebabe (Dec 15, 2003)

Hi,

glad the suggestions are useful. wrt to praise and consequences, i guess the stickers will be the reward, and constant praise for nice gentle playing will work too. Proximity-praising is also really useful, especially with 2 kids. What you do is when X is being rough but Y is playing nicely, you do an over-the-top praising of Y and how he's playing so nicely, loud enough for X to hear and see all the attention Y is getting. It works cos not only is X's behavious getting no attention, but he'll quickly learn that nice playing is the best route for reward. It also means the Y doesn't get annoyed about being ignored as X gets all the attention for his rough playing.

The consequece for the pushing is the timeout i guess. 

xruth


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## Viva (May 16, 2005)

Hi Sundog, 
I too have used Ruthies over the top praise strategy with my two with sucess for a number of things but it works particularly well when one is rough with the other...I have also found that since Charlie has been running around with boys his own age at school and learning that he will get pushed back that that has helped as a consequence, obviously I still keep a very close eye and step in if I need to, but he soon learnt that it didn't feel nice when he got rough treatment!
Viva
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