# Are DE experiences abroad generally more positive?



## matti (Aug 10, 2007)

Hi
I've had 13 months break from FF I've been trying to get on with life etc without obsessing about babies!  Recently tho I've found myself lurking the boards again as my hope and dreams just will NOT go away.

My last contact with FF was when I had DEIVF treatment in UK, which was unsuccessful and a complete disaster in every way.  For instance only 2 eggs fertilised, ET that should have taken 15 mins took in fact an hour and a half due to inexperienced nurses, car breaking down, tooth abcess on day of transfer - a really stressful and horrible experience.  Not surprising really that it didn't work!
Since then my monthly cycles which used to be regular and now all over the place. Unsympathetic GP (I know most of us have experienced them!) tells me it is due to ovarian failure and I am in perimenopause. I had counselling last year which helped and DH and I decided to pursue adoption.
However, 4 months into the adoption route I find myself back here again and we're not sure the adoption is the right route for us (DH admitted this to me last night also).  We're not sure we are strong enough to cope with potential legal wranglings etc and future heartbreak that may come with it.  I know it can be rewarding & wonderful for some people but we're not sure it's right for us. Also I have a this HUGE problem that I cannot give my DH his biological child (I already have 17 yr old from previous marriage). DH tells me he does not have a problem with this but did admit last night that adoption was his last choice and a desperate route for him to take.  He said that if we were suppoesed to have a child of our own it would have happened years ago, and now it's too late.  (he is 36, I am a young 45 in 2 months)!

I mentioned that we try DE treatment again, and this time suggested we try it abroad. I've been looking at info on here for cyprus, greece (Dr Penny sounds amazing) but he will just not entertain it.  He is so scared that is doesn't work again, and all the heartache, disappointment etc will come back with no end result. After what happened last time, he doesn't trust the Drs and feels that I might be incapable of carrying a baby to term (I've been ill on and off for 2 years now, all due to stress from this, nothing major, infections, stomach ulcer ). He said DE also has its own problems we are creating for ourselves in the future - the child may wish to trace its parent when it's old enough and this could end in heartache.He said adoption could be the same but at least there is a definite end result, a child at the end of it which no one can guarantee with IVF.

Sorry if this is long winded!  I know most of us have gone or are going through similar,  but I just feel I need to get this out as I have no one to discuss this with.  I need some advice about how I can encourage DH to perhaps consider DE treatment abroad.  Am I right in is saying there are better success rates over there and there are far more good experiences, nicer medical staff etc who actually care?  DH also feels that travelling abroad would add to the stress etc beforehand which would be detrimental.  Our experience of the treatment we've already had has badly affected him.  It has let me feeling pessimistic, but I am willing to give it another go than give up now and never know, and it was only 1 cycle of treatment.  I am not ready to give up and call it a day.

Any advice or stories would be welcome!  thanks!


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## crusoe (Jun 3, 2005)

Hi there I am not sure I am the best person to answer your questions given my history of DE failures but I wanted to let you know I had 9 DE cycles, 1 in the Uk and the others in 2 Spanish clinics. The clinics in Spain were far far superior in everyway to the apparently "leading" uk clinic I went to. Professionalism, cleanliness, efficiency, friendliness just everything was better. Personally I would never have treatment in the uk again. 
Yes the travelling did get a bit of a pain but we did also manage to have some nice times in foreign cities despite the anxiety of ivf.
I'm sorry this is really rushed and I don't have time just now to say all I want but I wish you well.
Love Crusoe xxx
ps DE is very very successful don't get worried by my multiple attempts. I am the definate exception to the rule but still glad I persued it!


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## Lyzbeth (Feb 7, 2008)

Hi, I'm so sorry to hear that your previous DEIVF was such a nightmare, I'm not surprised that it has made both of you think twice about trying again.

I've never had DEIVF in the UK, so I can only compare my previous 3 x IVF's that I had in the UK with the DEIVF I had in Athens. Whilst we found all three clinics to be helpful, friendly and professional, I must admit that Serum made it so easy and stress free (even with travelling abroad) with access to personal help and advice from start to finish. 

We used Ruth's free service (FF moderator and fertility nurse for Serum) she sorted out my drug prescription and walked me through my treatment. ivftravelsolutions sorted out our hotel, flights and took us from/to the airport. Plus we used the free time we had to have a mini holiday, which helped us relax too.

The actual procedure was relaxed and professional, I had Sharon (an English nurse) with me from start to finish, the clinic is small, clean and modern and we really felt like we were individuals not just another patient.

Concerning the actual donor, in Greece (and I believe most of Europe) the whole process is anonymous, you are given basic facts about her, but it is illegal for them to identify her to you. 

My advice would be to contact a few clinics, maybe speak to Penny or Ruth and if you like what you hear visit the clinic, then once you have all the info, take your time to decide what would be best for you and your DH.

Good luck and feel free to PM me if you want any more info.

Beth
XxX


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## matti (Aug 10, 2007)

Thanks girls for the advice, very encouraging. I'll get together some info etc, do some research and talk to DH about it. 
Congratulations to both of you for obtaining your dreams after your struggles.
Matti x


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## pucca (Dec 12, 2008)

I just got pregnant with DE, it was not planned , and came about only because after 2nd IVF failure, and some unfortunate mishaps, they offered us a DE, there and then.We took the chance to try to have this baby, and not wait for the next round. I am awaiting my scans, so am not out of the woods yet, and I am not sure if I am not going to have more mis haps, or unfortunate circumances, but it is so nice to be pregnant, and really the fact that it is DE does not mean anything to me.I am getting the chance to be a mum.If you can take the roller coaster again I would just go for it!


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## melon (Jun 25, 2009)

Hi sorry to hear about your bad experience in UK. We've just complained about our first DEIVF cycle in UK. Basically the dr made it clear to us she disapproved we had found our own donor and didn't want to put her into their donor pool or share her eggs, said it was a matter of conscience and she wd have to think about it b4 deciding if she wd treat us, same old malarkey from counsellor, felt we had to agree with all drivel spouted to get treated. We had a 250 mile round trip as had chosen clnic near our donor - they made us do 3 trips b4 starting treatment, once for drivel, once for bloods once the had consulted their consciences, once to sign a form as we might get it wrong if they posted it. They then messed up our donor's stims in my view so we ended up with BFN and no frosties anyway, with a 25 year old donor!! We're off to reprofit in May and feeling very positive, in our case it just couldn't be worse!!!  I think the foreign clinics must be easier as less bound by all the regulations...and a holiday is always good.
Good luck with your decision, sounds like you will always regret it if you don't try again, and remember once you decide on DE, your age just doesn't matter any more..how liberating
Let us know what you decide to do
Melonxx


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## pucca (Dec 12, 2008)

I think re profit is a good choice.I had a similar experience with my clinic in kent, it was s long winded, and I thought why are they wasting all this time when they know that time is not on my side.I got very frustrated, and now I have a positive pregnancy test from TRe profit, and hopefully all will be well.I would still be filling in forms in the UK!


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## MISS YUMMY 40 (Oct 21, 2009)

Hi
I just wanted to say that at aged 2 weeks away from 50 years, I've just had my first DEIVF at Dogus clinic in North Cyprus and succeeded in a BFP first go!
I didn't have any attempts in the UK so cannot compare but the service from Dogus was exemplary and very friendly too!
Travelling was fine, hotel not brill but overall the acid test for me would be would I go back ;Answer most definitely "Yes", so have a good think about it and check out some clinics, it may or may not be for you

Best wishes for the future
X


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## fionad (Jun 15, 2007)

Hi Matti - your story sounds similar to mine. We were just about to adopt and at the last minute my husband said he could not do it.I was devastated but fully understood. We had been to Czech before this for 2 ivf attempts - both failed. So just me going on and on about trying again (and a lot of tears)and figuring out a budget he finally consented, but it did take months and time is not on our side. So we are off to Ostrava, Czech next week for donor egg treatment and I am 45. I would definitely say that my experience in Czech has been way better that any here in the States. I have had iui and ivf here and to be honest i felt like I was treated like a chicken on a conveyor belt. I just wanted to try 1 more time so this is it for me. So good luck with everything and if it is something you want find a way to convince your partner or I feel it always lurks and nags at the back of your mind.


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## matti (Aug 10, 2007)

Thanks for all great advice. I still need to convince him - I keep hinting but he's having none of it! 
We had another adoption meeting last week and the social workers said that if we adopt we need to promise to use contraception for 2 years so we can focus all our energy on the adopted child!  Contraception!!!!I banished using that 20 years ago!!).  Whilst I would like to give a child a loving home, (and knowing I have next to no chance of a natural concenption) I cannot bring myself to take the pill - makes it all sound so final. More doubts re adopting have therefore entered my mind. We shall see. 
Miss Yummy, I agree, I will find a way to discuss this with DH. Best of luck for your treatment next week.
M x


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## pucca (Dec 12, 2008)

I think that sometimes officials get it wrong.They know you are dying for a child, and you have been unable to concieve so far. Then you start adoption process and they tell you to go on the pill!!! 

I think  that there are no guarantees in life, you may be on the list and anything can happen, and it is or is not successful.You could also try DE a few times, and give birth.The choice is yours, I would not be going on the pill because some official told me to do so, she probably already has children, and has no idea what it is like.

You want a child you do everything that feels right, this is your life, and had nature made it easy for you , you would not need them. Continue with the process, if you get a child fine, if you fall pregnant fine, but do not go on the pill to make their paperwork easier!


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## melon (Jun 25, 2009)

I agree honey, there are times in a girl's life when a harmless white lie is the only thing that will satisfy the mindless demands of bumblilng officialdom while still hanging onto your all important integrity and sense of personal freedom, as the man said!!
Good luck and don't give up!!
Melonxx


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## mousey (Oct 18, 2008)

Hi Matti - sorry to hear everything you are going through . I just wanted to pop up and say that I havent tried any of the clinics abroad - I have been tempted but after all the treatment , tests etc I have had here I dont think I can bear to start all over again when I am nearing the end of my trying to conceive journey . I also have a fear of flying which would completely stress me out .
I have had 3 attempts at DEIVF in this country at CRM in London ( 2 fresh and 1 FET) . From this I have had 2 Bfp - sadly one biochemical and 1 twin miscarriage . I cant speak highly enough of the clinic - there is a thread on the donor board if you want to go and chat to the very friendly girls on there . The wait is about 6 mths at the moment as they suddenly got a lot busier after the fertility show . I think the majority of donors are egg sharers . I know that they have one of the highest success rates in the country . Comparing success rates abroad compared to here does anyone know whether this is different with egg sharing compared to donors abroad ? 

Wishing you all the best with your decision making 

M x


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Mousey,

Hope you don't mind me barging this thread, but as a 50 year old mum to donor embryo twins conceived in Spain after 5 miscarriages (own eggs and DE), I just wondered what testing you and DH have had to find out possible causes for your very sad losses.

I am so keen that people don't have to go through losses unecessarily.  Especially after so many women are told it is their age but continue to have problems with DE...

Hope you don't mind me asking....

Best,
Daisy
x


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## mousey (Oct 18, 2008)

Hi Daisy - no I dont mind you asking at all . I had immunes done at ARGC after my 3rd failed treatment with own eggs and have raised NK cells - difficulty is whether there is any weight to the theory - cant tell you how many docs I have discussed it with and had so many opinions that my head spins . I am a nurse and have also done a lot of reading around it as well . Decided not to have the treatment in the past as our embryos were always pretty poor quality despite producing 19 eggs at a time in my early 40's and having a FSH of 4.5 we would be left with 3 embryos at day 3 . My AMH was v low . Our present clinic doesnt agree with immunes but I have seen Dr S and we are going to do steroids and clexane for our last treatment and hopefully have IMSI and only 1 transferred if we get to blasts . I will then feel like I have thrown everything at it for the last go . Who knows whether anything would have been different if we had gone for the immunes in the past - cant look backwards and regret - need to move forwards . 

Thanks for asking and congratulations on your lovely twins 

M x


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## matti (Aug 10, 2007)

Hi Girls, thanks for your replies. 
It really helps to type it all out here. I've just been to lunch today with yet another friend who's just given birth.  I've been holding her little daughter all afternoon - it's made me more determined than ever not to give up - yet. In the 7 years we've been ttc, so many of our friends and family, colleagues at work have given birth, some of them on their second kids, and we started before all of them.  Not to mention my dentist, hairdresser and hell, even my acupuncuturist who was too tired during her pregnancy to prepare me for my DE tx!  Don't get me wrong, it's lovely and I'm happy for all of them but it just makes that emptiness worse.  Keeping it to myself and smiling through the heartache is awful (I'm sure I don't need to explain) we've all been there. 
I'm still trying to broach the subject with DH who seems to have "moved on", although he did mention last week that he was jealous of his work colleague leaving work early to bath his baby son. I honestly think he's too scared to try incase we fail again. We've got a big holiday booked in September, so I'm hoping to persuade him to think about treatment around the end of the year when the holiday is over.  I'm 45 next month so there's no time to waste.
I've been looing at the abroad threads and Serum in Greece appealed to me but I'm a bit concerned about the chalamydia thing and how Penny tests everyone for it before treatment, which is fair enough, but I can't get my head round the fact that most ladies test positive and are then put on antibiotics for a month or so.  If so many people have it who don't know they have it, surely that means that loads of women outside the infertility circle have it too - most of who go on to have healthy pregnancies. I'm a bit confused about all of that. Anyway, thanks for listening to my rants ladies.
Matti x


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## Lyzbeth (Feb 7, 2008)

Matti,

I do understand what you are saying about the chlamydia test that Serum do but some of us have tested negative and have had treatment straight away. 

I think it's been said on the Serum thread that some women do get pregnant whilst still having C but the infection can reduce your chance of conceiving, plus increase the risk of a miscarriage, so Penny tries to minimise the risks by clearing the infection first.

I do hope you and your DH can come to an agreement as to what to do next.

Hugs & good luck
Beth
xXx


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## matti (Aug 10, 2007)

Hi Beth - huge congrats on your BFP.
Yes, that makes more sense now. I'm a bit worried tho as I had a hysteroscopy 3 years ago, paid for privately in UK., The consultant diagnosed me with PID and said I had a lot of scarring and a completely blocked left tube. He didn't tell me why and I just took it for granted that it was caused by endo (which I also have) I didn't realise it's chlamydia that causes PID and it's only by looking at the Serum thread and googling that I've just found that out! The surgeon who performed the op is one of the best gynae surgeons in Uk and he told me there was no reason (physically) why I should not be able to carry a baby to term.  Surely it must have crossed his mind that i might have C?  It really makes me angry how these 100s of clincs and consultants are happy to let you throw money at them without giving you the full facts. I actually did get pregnant a month after the op (m/c) . If we go to Serum, it's almost guaranteed then that I will need a hysteroscopy - which is a good thing as it gives us a bigger chance. I am guessing then that a hyseroscopy and possibly antibiotics for C (eek) that this will add 1 to 2 months on top of treatment time.  It's infuriating why the clinics in the UK are not so thorough, when will they catch up!
M x


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## meal2 (Jan 22, 2010)

Hi Matti
Like you I'll be 45 next month and have seen friends, colleagues, hairdressers etc going on to have second children in the period we've been trying!  Like you the c thing has kinda put me off Serum as well.  I don't know why when so many have good positive stories to tell about Serum but there's something niggling me about it and the septum thing too.  Anyway, between Serum, Pedieos and Dogus and possibly Reprofit we've chosen Pedieos - what swayed us I think was the price package and that they are also willing to do tandem.  Just waiting to confirm a few things before hopefully being able to start treatment this year.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
meal x


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## melon (Jun 25, 2009)

Hi girls,
maybe you could ask your GP to test and treat you for C b4 you go to Serum - would save time and money. After all it's something that would need treating even if you weren't ttc so shoudl be covered by good ol NHS
Good luck to all, I'm trying totalk DH into accepting an embie adoption if our embies don't turn out good at Reprofit next month - wish me luck
Melonxx


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## matti (Aug 10, 2007)

Lirac - that's a great story!

Melon - good luck - we had a chat last night and De has said "maybe" weneed to talk about it in more detail - when the time is right.  I will tread carefully.
M x


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## matti (Aug 10, 2007)

we have a friend who said he will let us borrow his flat in Alicante for a "holiday" . It is a comforting thought should we use Alicante. We have thought about using the clinic there there before, recommended to us by our Uk clinic - they work in conjunction.  However, tut the thing that put me off was that they don't tell you any characteristics of the donor at all - unless you get a pregnancy - is this right? I just can't get my head around this. I would imagine that they will try and match you etc, but I'd like to know a bit about the donor before the procedure.  
M x


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## drownedgirl (Nov 12, 2006)

Have only had tx here in the UK, we found the clinic were lovely (we chose a small clinic not a hospital) and we have had a lot of success.


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