# Fertility & Gynaecology Acadamy (Amin Gorgy) : Part 14



## Skybreeze

*New Home Ladies
Happy Chatting
*    
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## berry55

bookmarking xx


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## niccad

bookmarking x


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## Saffa77

bookmarkkkkkkkkkkkingx


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## ann69

Hi girls can I ask you experts something else please?

We are due to start NHS IVF cycle in 2 weeks time when AF turns up doing the antagonist short protocol, but we are due to see Mr G next week to review our results from ARGC incase IVIG may be needed (which I'll hopefully have at home).
Do you think he will suggest having extra tests done as I haven't had DQ Alpha and a few others that only Mr G does?
I'm really keen to get going with the cycle and I thought I'd had all testing done only to find out there is more that can still be done.
The only abnormal result I've had is a CD56 of 12.8.


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## agate

Saffa: its too late in your pg to be thinking about LIT now - everything is clearly ok, so your LAD has probably risen from 30 anyway - even for ladies who need repeat LITs all through early pg, Dr T stops them at about 20-24 weeks.  

Ann: you'll discuss it with him, and then decide.  If he thinks you need IVIG or ILs (and bits like clexane and pred) I'm sure he'll prescribe them.  He might suggest you get your LAD and DQa done, and then if LAD is low and you do get your BFP, to have LIT asap then (because there won't be enough time, presumably, to do LIT before your Tx).  But he'll take into account your situation and its always going to be up to you to decide what you actually want after he gives you his advice.


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## Saffa77

Hi Agate - no I was not after LIT LOL was just saying that I didnt get my LIT over 50 like Gorgy suggested as I thought being over 30 was ok - think someone earlier mentioned something about LIT and needing to be over 70 etc.

Sx


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## agate

30 is borderline.  50 is better.  But yours is probably over 50 by now because you've stayed pg ... could even be a full house (100%).  LIT is only really needed for ladies whose body doesn't naturally get their LAD up in pg (causing mc/implantation failure etc)... it doesn't look like you are in that boat.


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## Ourturn

marking


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## Pigloo

Hi Ladies

Sorry I know nothing about LIT so can't help with that. Hope you all get it sorted though   

AFM - DP got his Semen, Culture and sensitivity test back today and surprise surprise its clear, however we are starting our AntiBs today for C.

P x


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## ann69

Agate - you are a fountain of knowledge, thank you!

If we have LAD and DQ alpha done how long do results take to come back?
And can I clarify that if he suggests IVIG or IL's they can be done at home? Do you normally go in and have NK's repeated during stimming, so I'd come up to London to have those repeated?


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## fi7

Hi all

hello to everyone, hope you are all ok

I just got the dreaded hidden C test back and it is positive. so more drugs and more delay - does this game ever end?  

good news is that it is not too strong but aaagghh.  Dr G said it could be linked to high NK's so who knows

just FYI for here and LIT ladies, I asked about LIT and he talked about maybe needing to increase the price by £50 - £100 as he was having issues with prioritisation in the lab.  so we will see

big hug to all 

Agate, Peanuts and Berry  - i hope you are all doing well.

fi


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## ells

Hi ladies,

Fiz sorry your result was positive but good that it isnt strong - hopefully only one lot of AB's.

Anna, we didnt have LIT either and my levels at last retest were 84.2.

Agate hope you are well, are you counting down the days yet?

Peanuts, how did you get on today?  for good news from you hunnni.

Niccard, how are you feeling? you must be getting a date through for your scan any day now.

Thumbelina, I really hope you are not going too crazy and that you are feeling nice and relaxed, test day must be just aroung the courner. rememeber the mantra *THIS HAS WORKED YOU ARE PREGNANT*.

Sarah, hun, hope you are okay  .

Saffa great pic btw  .

How is everyone else?

AFM had 16 week appointment this morning. Didnt get a scan  so wasnt happy about that even though the consultant at the last appointment put it in my notes. The doctor was very nice and listened to the HB's and all was fine. We asked about whether they would do the IL's and they wanted a letter from Dr G which has been duly faxed so  and fingers crossed that we are lucky.

Also got my retests back  .
50:1 12.6
25:1 9.4
CD3 89.7
CD19 6.4
CD56 6.9
CD19+CD5+ 12.5

What do you ladies think? I am having my next IL's on Monday which will be 4 weeks since the last drip. Am I right in thinking that the CD 19+ 5+ are linked to the clexane? and that CD 3 arent really anything to worry about?

Ells


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## Mousky




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## JasmineX

Thanks Saffa and Agate for the replies about LIT. I am at 36% - so sounds like borderline? 

I just checked in the "Is your body baby friendly?" book, Dr Beer recommends minimum 30%, so by his standards I would be OK?

Oh its all so hard to figure this stuff out...

(Saffa, I so love your pic, you look gorgeous with your bump)

Hi to all   

Jasmine
XXXXX


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## agate

ann69 said:


> If we have LAD and DQ alpha done how long do results take to come back?
> And can I clarify that if he suggests IVIG or IL's they can be done at home? Do you normally go in and have NK's repeated during stimming, so I'd come up to London to have those repeated?


LAD takes just under a week (usually). DQa takes maybe up to 3 weeks. 
IVIGs and ILs are often done at home if you don't live near to Dr G.
You wouldn't normally get your NKs repeated during stimming - its usually beforehand and then repeated in early pg (often you have a drip on BFP and then another on 1st scan - then wait 7-10 days and then retest NKs.

Jasmine: I THINK that Dr G will advise you on your LAD taking into account all your other issues. If everything else is fab, then he probably won't be bothered about a borderline LAD. If you have a lot of other issues on top, then I GUESSS he will probably suggest you try and get the LAD up over 50 to give you as much help as possible.

Fi: so sorry. more hassle that you really don't need. but maybe its the missing piece of the puzzle.

Ells: CD3 includes all T cells apart from NKs - so its really hard to know what a high figure means as it includes loads of different subclasses. I wouldn't worry about it. CD19+5+ are CD19s (B cells - antibody producing cells) that are associated with autoimmune antibodies - so probably not much to do with clexane, but MIGHT include anti progesterone antibodies (but you are on extra progesterone for that).


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## sal2

quick question as im onto mousky and shes having dinner, I am sending my hidden c tomorrow and have to get day 26 biopsy done this month. Iis it ok for me to go ahead with lit this month.
thanks


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## Saffa77

Ells - your retest results are so so similar to mine,  I always have high CD19+5 and CD3 - I just keep having 4 weekly intralipids and this last intralipids actually finally bought my CD19 +5 right down but CD remain high and Gorgy is not too worried about it he dosent say much about it apart from having another drip.  hope this helps

Sx


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## agate

Sal:  I don't know exactly what your timetable/treatment programme is, but basically the things that would mean you shouldn't have LIT now are: if you are on some antihistamines/antibiotics, humira, steroids - because having these within 7 days of LIT might make the LIT less effective.    The only other reason I can think of not to do if it would be if its going to be months until you actually TTC or something... or if your blood donor is poorly (you may catch whatever bugs they have at the time of LIT).... or maybe if you can't get your donor's infection screening tests done in time?  I can't think of anything else that would get in the way.


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## sal2

do you think i should go ahead with booking


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## sal2

my dhs blood and I think results would be back next week for hidden c. also if i do book can i cancel or swap with someone else or should i leave it for another 2 weeks to be sure, thanks,panicking as cant wait til august for doc g


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## agate

if its paternal LIT you can cancel any time at all.  If its donor, then you can still cancel but it is a bit more hassle for Dr T as he has to recruit a donor for you and then cancel them.    Probably better to get booked in and then if something comes up you can cancel.


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## sal2

thank you very much, will let mousky know and to book me in.x cheers agate


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## Zeka

Hello everyone *wave*, hope you're all doing ok. Now a couple of days late in my cycle and I'm praying I don't get AF! I can dream anyway!! 
Zeka x


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## mag108

bookmarking


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## agate

good luck zeka!


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## suitcase of dreams

just bookmarking


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## mag108

Ladies
Wondering about something.


How many of us Gorgy girls (who have tested) have tested + for hidden C? Didnt someone talk about doing a survey?
X


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## ells

Agate and Saffa, thank you ladies for your replies.  I hope the drip on Monday will do the trick - my results were really good last time.  Agate - I'm not on gestone or cyclo anymore, stopped them about 2 weeks ago now - ended up a little longer then Dr G recommended (only a week and a lhalf) just to use up the meds as didnt want to waste them.

Saffa I hope the drips do the trick for me too, I have been having them every 4 weeks too.  

Zeka - huni keeping everything crossed for you hunni - I hope you get that miracle     .

Helloooooo to everyone else.

Ells


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## Desi

Saffa, what a great picture!!
You are already half way, well done!!!! Time flies.

Jasmine, if you can not wait for Dr.G for LIT or travel to Greece, check email of Dippy on the LIT thread about another clinic in London offering LIT, maybe that might help you?

Take care ladies!
Desi.
Xx


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## SaffronXXX

Is it just me who is finding this ''borderline'' business is so hard to understand? I wish things were either within the normal range or they aren't! My TNF-a is 28% when it should be something like 30.4%. Dr G said it was a borderline figure so recommend uterine biopsy. I guess Dr G is trying to make sure everything is checked out throughly but it kinda feel like this normal range doesn't mean a thing sometimes :-( I am getting hys/lap on NHS this Thurstday so the thought of getting another procedure was too much so we said that we won't be getting it done though. A friend of mine got it done at Liverpool and her uNK came back as 4.9% which was another borderline figure as it should be under 5%, though she didn't get humira or anything.

Sarahh - Good luck for the brand new cycle! We are starting downregging next week, on 22nd so we are not far behind

Jasmine - I called to ask about LIT last month and was told the earliest app available was at the end of July. We called back a week later to actually book it and the date moved to the beginning of August. Dr G did say that he might be trying to fit in more apps in a week so the waiting list might get shorter and you might be seen earlier. The best thing to do to book the earliest poss app and then wait for any ealier space to come up?? We are cycling in July without LIT but with all the ususal immune meds and ILs first but booked Aug LIT as a back up. If July cycle doesn't work, we'll be starting a cycle again in Sep. I know it's a nightmare trying to fit all this around your work. Hope you can work something out.  

fi7 - oh what a nightmare. Hope AB will clear it in no time. Thanks for the info on price for LIT 

Sx


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## Pigloo

Hi

Anyone else had any probs getting hold of Gestone 100mg? 

I have just rang [email protected] and she said there is a manufacturer problem in getting the 100mg but they have the 50mg, she said i may struggle to get any of the 100mg at any pharmacy at the moment.

I don't need this until 3rd Aug so hopefully the situation will have changed by then but she said its been a problem for a while now so maybe not
*Is it possible to take to 50mg of Gestone a day..would this mean 2 injections a day though... 

Regarding price they were cheaper than Lloyds pharmacy for the Clexane 20mg (£3.4 and 40mg (£4.64) but expensive for the prednisolone 51p per tablet compared to 21p with Lloyds!!

Pigloo x*


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## thumbelina

Hi ladies   

Peanuts - Thank you hun - I hope your scan went well and you saw lovely heartbeat/s     

Fi7 - Sorry about your c test results     

Ells - Thanks hun      - we are going to test on Saturday now. I still have no symtoms at all, had no implantation bleeding ,my boobs arent any bigger or sore and the veins are just the same as before. On my last two cycles even though they were negative my boobs got huge and really painful. I just feel so normal and now I am 6 days past 5 day transfer. I      my embie/s have implanted. Please can someone tell me that they felt normal like this and went on to get a   . That said I am trying to keep calm.. lol

Lots of love,      and      to all.

Love thumbelina xxx


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## Saffa77

Thumbelina - I had NO symptoms serioulsly and still dont!!! dont worry about lack of symptoms means nothing, am sure the ladies will remember how i used to come on here everyday complaining about no symptoms - hang in therex

Sx


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## agate

SaffronXXX said:


> Is it just me who is finding this ''borderline'' business is so hard to understand? I wish things were either within the normal range or they aren't! My TNF-a is 28% when it should be something like 30.4%. Dr G said it was a borderline figure so recommend uterine biopsy. I guess Dr G is trying to make sure everything is checked out throughly but it kinda feel like this normal range doesn't mean a thing sometimes


Saffron: I think maybe you and Dr G were talking at cross purposes? If your TNFa had been high, then Dr G would have recommended humira - there would have been no point in having a uBiopsy because if it had come back with high uNKs the treatment would still have been humira. But when ladies' TNFa comes back normal (like yours), they don't need humira unless they have uNKs. So that's the situation when he suggests a biopsy to determine whether you should have humira for uNKs - this is to spare those ladies who are going to need humira anyway for TNFa from the discomfort of having a uBiopsy. Some ladies find that steroids/ivig are enough to get uNKs down, but humira is a more aggressive treatment and therefore more likely to deal with uNKs if they are very high. Do you think you could ask your NHS clinic to take a biopsy sample for you to post to Dr G on thursday and then you can cover this off? I don't know where you are in your cycle, but if you did happen to be close to AF (but not having AF) it would make sense to do it whilst they are 'up there'.

Pigloo: yes, there have been problems getting hold of 100mg gestones - some chemists are v helpful and will let you have 2 x 50mg for the price of 100mg (there is a big price difference between them normally). To turn 2 x 50mg into 1 x 100mg all you do is load up two ampoules of gloop into one syringe - if you don't want to do 2 jabs a day.


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## thumbelina

saffa77 - Thanks hun, you have made me feel better - congrats again on ur pregnancy - it only seems like yesterday that u got ur bfp      xxx


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## agate

thumbelina:  i didn't have any symptoms either, except maybe a funny taste in my mouth, but I think that was a bit later on.


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## Pigloo

Thanks Agate - one more question if you could answer it about Prednisolone

Dr G has prescribed 4 weeks of Prednisolone (25mg) if I take this for 4 weeks will I need to order more so that I can taper the dosage down as I have read that you cannot abruptly stop taking steroids as it affects your adrenal glands as taking the steroids surpresses them (see what I have been reading below)

*The administration of steroids for a period exceeding two weeks runs the risk of suppression of the adrenal cortex. Patients on steroids for less than one week may have them stopped without the risk of adrenal suppression. In people who take large doses of corticosteroids, such as prednisone or prednisolone the function of the adrenal glands will become suppressed. This suppression occurs because these large doses prevent the hypothalamus and pituitary glands from producing the hormones that normally stimulate adrenal function. If the person abruptly stops taking corticosteroids, the body cannot restore adrenal function quickly enough, and temporary adrenal insufficiency (a condition similar to Addison's disease) results. Also when stress occurs, the body is not able to stimulate the additional production of corticosteroids that are needed. Therefore doctors never discontinue the use of corticosteroids abruptly if they have been taken for more than 2 or 3 weeks. Instead, they taper the dose over months or even for more than a year. The dose may need to be increased in people who become ill or otherwise severely stressed while taking corticosteroids. Corticosteroid use may need to be resumed in a person who becomes ill or otherwise severely stressed within weeks of having the corticosteroid tapered and discontinued.* *Steroids in pharmacological doses over a prolonged period of time can cause Cushing's syndrome with associated oedema and redistribution of fat. Fluid retention leads to a swelling of the face called 'mooning' as the face becomes rounded like a full moon. A central type of obesity develops with thin extremities, a fatty 'buffalo hump' on the neck and enlargement of the supraclavicular area (above collar bone or clavicle). These features are related to excessive protein catabolism (where breakdown of stored protein is used as fuel in times of stress) as well as sodium and water retention. The retention of sodium and water also leads to hypertension and weight gain.*
*Health professionals are likely to advise patients to continue their medication as prescribed, never miss a dose even if they feel unwell and not to stop their medication abruptly. Monitoring of fluid intake and output, blood pressure, weight check and a low sodium diet are usually carried out. The patient is also advised to carry a steroid card or wear an ID bracelet and tell any nurse, dentist or doctor that they are taking steroids. *
Thanks

Pigloo x


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## thumbelina

Thanks Agate, hope ur well xxx


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## smox

Just a quick wave to all pregnant and soon 2b pregnant ladies here!


Fi - so sorry to hear about your hidden C results. Hopefully a short course of AB's will sort it out soon.

Zeka - Fingers, toes and everything else crossed for you hun. Might be your month! Do not forget miricles DO happen.

Agate - what would we do without your knowledge? Thank you girl, you are THE STAR.

Good luck to the ladies in Athens today

Love and baby dust to all
xxxx


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## agate

pigloo: the plan is to get your BFP and stay on steroids until about 12 weeks of pg, then taper down over 12-21 days - so he should have given you enough to get to OTD and then the situation is obviously different depending on whether you are pg or not - and assuming your are pg, you'll need to speak to Dr G asap and sort out any drips you need to get asap and any Pxs to tide you over until past your 1st scan - then hopefully when you are armed with a scan pic, your GP might help you out by Pxing some of the drugs on the NHS.

the normal advice from docs is that if you haven't been on steroids recently, if you are on them for 21 days or less you can just stop, but if you've been on them repeatedly or for more than 21 days, you ALWAYS taper off.  If you are coming down from 25mg, then the initial drop from 25mg to 20, 20 to 15 and even 15 to 10 is easy (so you can do that bit quickly), but then the lower you get, the more chance of feeling horrible if you drop too quickly, so that's when you start to drop more slowly spending a few days at 10, then at 5, then do 1 day on and 1 day off for a couple of days before you stop completely.    if you feel headachey and horrible, thats usually a sign you are going too fast, but assuming you have got to 12 weeks pg, you don't want to drag the process out too long for baby's sake.


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## Zeka

Pigloo, I'm amazed the 100mg is still out of stock, its been like that for months and months. Its just not on when its just us ladies that get screwed with the price + inconvenience of it all! 

Smox, I really don't hold out much hope hun as you know. Although I did just try to buy a couple of tests in boots + realised I'd left all cash + cards back at the orafice. Doh! 
Massive thx again for you and FlamingK making my b'day special on Sat!

Zeka x


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## Pigloo

Agate - thanks for explaining things hun   

Zeka - I know!! How long is it since you heard they were out of stock, just wondering how long its been going on??  If the manufacturer can make 50mg whats prob with making 100mg?

I was quoted £5.18 for the 50mg Gestone.

Pigloo x


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## agate

the (wholesale) list price is £4.50 for 50mg and the same price for 100mg.  I have a feeling that asda said they would do all fertility drugs for list price (and I assume that gestone must count as a fertility drug) - but I found rigcharm (london) was pretty cheap - and DH could go there and get the Px whilst I had a drip.

if you want to check the list prices for any UK drugs you can sign up for bnf.org (its free)


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## Peanuts

Hi girls

Sorry I didn't get on yesterday, we had a power cut at home so couldn't get on the PC and then I was hooked up to an IVIG drip for 4 hours! Drip went well, but just wanted to go to bed after that!

Things were all good yesterday - saw the heartbeat again and the start of arms and legs (apparently, but I couldn't see them!). So pleased







, but feeling very weird now being officially released from the fertility clinic after being a patient with them for nearly 4 years!







Got a 12 wek scan booked and a midwife appt! Very odd!

Fi - so sorry to hear about the C test, but hoping the antiB's do there thing and you can come up with a plan for the future   . As Agate says, this may be the last piece of the jigsaw. 

Ells - must have been disappointing not to have a scan when you were promised one, buthopefully not that much longer to wait to the next one 

Thumbelina - keeping fingers and toes crossed for your OTD - I didn't have any symptoms either and could have sworn it was all over before test day. Keep your chin up, and keep repeating Ells mantra - this haas worked you are pregnant!      

Zeka - keeping fingers crossed for you hun      

Agate - big hugs petal  

Sending you all big hugs   
Dxx


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## fi7

hi all thanks for your wishes

peanuts - fab news on the scan.

berry - all quiet from you i hope you are ok.

zeka - miracles can happen - i have one!

on the gestone, i rang the manufacturer about a month ago - as i noticed they were based quite near my work and she said yes they were out of the 100, and yes the 50 was the same price.  she said they would be making more 100 but not sure when.  so if anyone has a box/leaflet you could ring again.  cheapest i found was Asda at £4.50

big hugs to all

fi


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## sarahh

Evening ladies, Fi, sorry to hear you got a positive for C - I know how you feel about yet another delay in tx as i had to postpone earlier this year to take 14w of antibiotics for latent TB.  Just when you think you have a plan it all goes t*ts up!!!  Hope the first lot sort it for you tho hon   

Peanuts - great news about the heartbeat, you must be delighted        that everything is smooth running for you from now on.  

Ells, what a pain not having a scan.  It is so reassuring to see.  Thanks for your PM.  I have another scary session on Thursday with Qing!   

Well I had my LIT done today; Dr G injects in both arms and it was quite painful but ok a little while afterwards.  Luckily it didn't make me feel funny this time so maybe I always felt strange in Athens because of the stress of flying / getting to the clinic etc.  Just hope that LIT no 5 does something! 

I also took my results from my HVS with me and said to Dr G that GP said that they cannot list all the bacteria they test and I was definitely tested for mycoplasma & ureaplasma but that I wasn't so sure as it is not on list of test results.  He said he would expect to see a result if it was specifically tested.  I'm really annoyed.  If the damn NHS can't / won't test for it then why do they pretend that they have?  I may just make a complaint to my surgery about this, its not on is it?    Hmmmm, sorry, rant over! 

Anyway, so I had another HVS and will have it tested via TDL / Dr G just to be sure.  Please god don't let it be positive.  Would be just my luck when due to start down regging on Friday for it to come back positive on Thursday;    that it is negative !

So we are £775 lighter this evening!  Just imagine if we could go out and blow that in one day on ourselves eh girls, now that would be fun wouldn't it?! 

Hi to everyone else, 

Sarah xx


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## Pigloo

Sarah - yeah, the amount of money we've spent would get us a nice holiday abroad   shame we can't afford one this year Boo Hoo!!!


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## Klingon Princess

just bookmarking...

I reckon we could get a cruise round the world for the money weve spent, lol.  to be honest, with all the money we've spent on the tests, I dont know if we can afford another round of treatment on top of that.


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## Klingon Princess

Postman has just delivered my results and I'm sitting here in complete disbeleif. Ive been married for 10 years, and neither of us have cheated, how the bloody hell can I have chlamidia... I just know what DH is going to think even if he doesnt say it!

As for the other results, I ont understand them very well but it doesnt lok good. Dont know if anyone can help me interpret them? I have bolded the ones he has marked with a highlighter, I'm guessing that means these are the problem ones

TH1:TH2 intracellular cytokine ratios
TNF-a:IL-10 (CD3+CD4+) 29.4%
*IFN-g:IL-10 (CD3+CD4+) 27.8%*

DQ Alpha genotype
*DH: 0501, 0505*
*ME: 0201, 0201*

NK assay (%killed)
*50:1 27.9%*
25:1 24.0%
12.5:1 18.1%
IgG conc 12.5 50:1 16.5%
IgG conc 12.5 25:1 11.5%
IgG conc 6.21 25:1 11.5%
%CD3 72.0%
%CD19 5.7%
*%CD56 17.7%*
%CD19+cells CD5+ 8.8%

LAD
Flowcytometry negative
(Tcells) IgM+ 1.0%
(Tcells) IgG+ 1.0%
(Bcells)IgM+ 10.4%
(Bcells) IgG+ 53.2%

NK assay with Intralipid
*50:1 w/intralipid 1.5mg/ml 6.2%*
25:1 w/intralipid 1.5mg/ml 1.6%


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## Swinny

Hi Girls

Just popping on with some news. I had a text message from Cozy this morning to say that her beautiful baby boy  arrived early at 28 weeks on the 15th of June and he weighs just short of 2lb's (900g) . He will be in Special Care for a while. I will update you all as and when I get any more info.

Wishing the three of them all the love in the world xx


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## Pigloo

Hi KP

Sorry you tested positive for hidden C.  You and DH will need to take Antibiotics same as me and DH for 25 days.  Look on the greece thread there's a thread for girls dealing with Hidden C so you'll get loads of info on there.

I had high NK cells they like them to be under 15% and yours is 27% (mine was 21%) however if you look at the bottom your NK cells respond well to intralipids in bringing down killing power they go down to 6.2%.  Good news is intralipids are cheaper than IVIG, I think they are about £280ish for a drip  where as IVIG is in the £1000's You will prob be prescribed 2 intralipid drips, 1 between day 5-7 stimms and 1 between day 9 -11 stimms, i just got my prescription.

CD56 - I think this is to do with antibodies and could possibly be antibodies to hormones, I was prescribed Gestone for this.

Not sure about the rest but I'm sure AGate will be able to help you out.

Pigloo x


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## Pigloo

Cozy

Congratulations and very best wishes to you and your little boy   

Pigloo x


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## ells

Cozy, sending you massive congratulations and best wishes on the birth of your little boy.  

Ells


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## Saffa77

Cozy congratulations!!  Hope she gets to take him home soon!  

Sx


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## agate

KP: Unfortunately, chlamydia can take up residence and stay - it doesn't matter if you caught it 20 years ago, if either of you got and didn't clear it, it means you can have it (and its usually completely silent - no symptoms so very hard to know you have caught it unless you test just after you've been exposed to it when there are plenty of bugs still down in your vagina). Please bear in mind that its incredibly common. Something like 1 in 7 in the average population have chlamydia at any point in time, and the figures must be a lot higher than that in the infertility population.

TH1:TH2 intracellular cytokine ratios
TNF-a:IL-10 (CD3+CD4+) 29.4%
*IFN-g:IL-10 (CD3+CD4+) 27.8%* this is high, but your TNFa ratio is still just in the normal range, and its the TNFa ratio that is normally seen as more important for fertility. It does mean that your body is slightly more geared towards inflammation rather than a 'calm' state.

DQ Alpha genotype
*DH: 0501, 0505* = 4.1, 4.1
*ME: 0201, 0201* = 2.1, 2.1 - if you weren't having donor sperm (I think you are?) then all the embryos you make with your DH would be (2.1, 4.1)s - not a match for you which is good. If you need LIT, there is no reason why your DH woudln't be a good blood donor from a DQa point of view.

NK assay (%killed)
*50:1 27.9%* - that's pretty high. it means that in a test tube sample, your NKs killed off quite a lot more than 15% of the specimen cells within 2 hours. it means your NKs are pretty aggressive - they have a higher than normal killing power - which is fab if you want to fight to cancer (or viruses) but not so fab for getting pg.
25:1 24.0% - even when you dilute the NK solution by half, your cells still killed more than 15% of the specimen cells
12.5:1 18.1% - and at half again
IgG conc 12.5 50:1 16.5% - ok, this is good news. if you add some ivig to the test tube it brings your NK killing power down almost to normal (15%)
IgG conc 12.5 25:1 11.5% - and it also brings it down at a lower dilution of your NKs
IgG conc 6.21 25:1 11.5% - and at a lower dilution of IVIG
%CD3 72.0%
%CD19 5.7%
*%CD56 17.7%* - this means that as well as your NKs having a high killing power, there are also more of them in your blood than on average. 
%CD19+cells CD5+ 8.8%

LAD
Flowcytometry negative
(Tcells) IgM+ 1.0%
(Tcells) IgG+ 1.0%
(Bcells)IgM+ 10.4%
(Bcells) IgG+ 53.2% - this is pretty good - because although the average of the four classes tested is below 30% (and well below 50%), the IgG antibodies are more important (they are the mature response compared to IgM), and B cells are usually seen as more predictive of your body's response to an embryo than its response to T cells - so Dr G is only likely to recommend LIT if he thinks that your combined issues are so severe that you need all the help you can get, if you see what I mean.

NK assay with Intralipid
*50:1 w/intralipid 1.5mg/ml 6.2%* - this is excellent news. if you add some intralipid solution to the test tube with your NKs it brings their killing power well into the normal range - that is fab because ILs is much cheaper than IVIG.
25:1 w/intralipid 1.5mg/ml 1.6%

hope this is some help, but apart from the shock of the positive C test, this is basically good news. You know there is an NK problem (which would explain your MCs), but it does seem to be a treatable one that will hopefully come down nicely with steroids + ILs drips - it might come down a bit too if you clear the C. I don't know whether you have any other clotting issues, but I think Dr G will probably want you on a low dose of clexane because of the NKs (they may compromise blood flow to the lining/placenta). Extra progesterone isn't obviously needed from your results, but it does have anti-inflammatory properties so Dr G might suggest you extra pessaries or gestone.

It is possible that you could have uterine NKs as well as having high NKs generally. If your TNFa ratio had come back high, Dr G would be suggesting humira to dampen your TNFa, which is the same drug he uses when uNKs are very high. So typically, he waits until he knows whether you are going to need humira regardless before suggesting you have a uBiopsy to look for uNKs (to save you the discomfort and expense of a biopsy). So he might suggest you have a biopsy before your Tx to rule out needing humira for uNKs. Even if you have got uNKs, steroids are sometimes enough to deal with them - but some ladies do seem to need humira if they have very aggressive/very high numbers of uNKs. I guess it would be up to you whether you want to rule uNKs out as an issue or whether you want to stick with steroids and ILs and plan on that being enough.

Do you know what your actual C test result was?

The first step will be (I THINK) 25 days of antibiotics for both you and DH to try and shift it (using condoms until you do) - and then a retest for it on the 2nd AF after you finish the antiBs. Depending where you go for your prescription (?asda?), it might not be much cheaper to get the drugs on the NHS - so I guess the next step will be a telecon with Dr G to get his advice on your Tx (try to get full details of what protocol he proposes for when you get rid of the C - I THINK it will be prednisolone starting on day 5/6/7 of stimms, clexane starting at the same time and 2 shots of ILs during stimms (to be followed up by a further shot on BFP and on first scan - then you retest NKs and go from there) and get a Px for the antiBs for you and DH.

hope this helps.

Swinny: just seen your post. I hope Cozy and her baby are ok.


----------



## Klingon Princess

Cozy, a massive congratulations on the birth of your little boy.

Pigloo, what type of antibiotic are you taking and what strength?  

Agate, thank you so much for the explanation.  youve given me hope.  I'm having a hysteroscopy and laparoscopy done in two weeeks time, wonder if I can persuade them to do a biopsy as well, lol

does anyone know roughly what it costs to have a uterine biopsy done privately?

ooh, forgot to mention, there is also evidence of ureaplasma urealyticum. I'm assuming the antibiotics for Chlamydia will celar this up as well?


----------



## Pigloo

We are taking

Day 1      Metronidazole 400mg x 5 one dose
Day 2      Zithromex cap 250mg x 4 tab (again in one dose)
Day 3 -23 Doxycycline tab 100mg after meals ( 1 tab twice a day)
Day 24    Zithromax cap 250mg x 4 tab one dose

Every day we take an omperazol tablet to help with any sickness but we have been fine so far.

You can't have any alcohol when taking Metronidazole and only a moderate amount on doxy and you must avoid direct sunlight/sunlamps on the Doxy.  Also no dairy whilst on the doxy as it affects absorption.

Pigloo x


----------



## agate

KP:  Ideally, you'd maybe like to put off the hyst until you've cleared the C, if possible- only because if you are the sort of person who gets scarring from C, then there is small chance that you'd get the scarring cleared in the hyst, only to give it another chance to scar you some more before you've really killed it - but I don't know whether you'd have any chance of delaying the hyst - and of course, it may be completely clear and show you don't have any scarring - in which case its unlikely the C is going to give you more scarring any whilst its being bashed by antiBs - but maybe you should talk to Dr G about this.

You might well be able to get a uBiopsy sample taken at the same time (they would have all the bits to do it) which you could post off to Dr G (it goes to RFU I think) - don't know how much it costs.  someone said £350 but I'm  not sure how much of that is for physically taking it and how much is for analysing at RFU.  I think it needs to be preserved in formalin but you'd have to check that with Dr G/RFU.  It is supposed to be done just a couple of days before your AF starts though, ideally - so that they get to see a sample of 'mature' lining.

The drugs for C are usually:

Day 1: 4 x Flagyl (metronidazole) 500mg - avoid alcohol
Day 2: 4 x zithromax (azithromycin) 250mg
Day 3-24: Vibramycin 100mg am and pm (Doxycycline)  - avoid foods with calcium at the same time as doxy (milk, cheese, yoghurt etc).
Day 25: 4 x zithromax 250mg

I THINK doxy also clears ureaplasma.


----------



## Klingon Princess

sorry for all the questions.. have made a GP appointment but am wondering if the drugs are cheaper privately or paying NHS presciption charges... thats three different drugs each, making six prescriptions


----------



## berry55

congratulations cozy!!!!!! xxxx


----------



## agate

Klingon Princess said:


> sorry for all the questions.. have made a GP appointment but am wondering if the drugs are cheaper privately or paying NHS presciption charges... thats three different drugs each, making six prescriptions


I tried to work it out for pigloo a week or so ago....

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=237535.msg3816770#msg3816770


----------



## Klingon Princess

Agate, what would we do without you... thanka again.  One last question for now, the expenses for pigloo list omeprazole at the end of it... just asking cos its not on the list you mentioned earlier?


----------



## agate

its an ant-acid (like zantac) - so it should help if you feel sick when you are on antiBs.


----------



## sal2

well done mousky on the trip to athens.

just  another question for u girls, had all tests with doc g and have sent hidden c away and this month will do unk here in ireland with my doc and send over to wimpole st. if unk comes back positive,what is the treatment?

also, my clinic in london (bridge centre) wanted me to do thrombophilia tests and these include: protein c and s,anti cardiolipin, antiphospholipids but doc g didnt test for these, can anyone tell me why?

thanks again girls


----------



## sal2

also when doing ivf and intralipids, when do you test for levels etc and do they have to go to U.S


----------



## agate

sal2 said:


> if unk comes back positive,what is the treatment?
> 
> also, my clinic in london (bridge centre) wanted me to do thrombophilia tests and these include: protein c and s,anti cardiolipin, antiphospholipids but doc g didnt test for these, can anyone tell me why?


if uNKs are only a little bit high, then steroids and ILs/IVIG may be enough. If they are very high, Dr G tends to prescribe humira.

Dr G does prefer if you have the basic level 1 thromobophilia tests done with your GP, but if not, he will tend to treat you with a low dose of clexane in any case (if you have any NK issues, or inherited thrombophilia etc).



sal2 said:


> also when doing ivf and intralipids, when do you test for levels etc and do they have to go to U.S


unless your issues are very severe (and you need an earlier retest), you would normally have ILs during stimms, then again on BFP, then probably again on first scan and then wait 7-10 days and then retest NKa. The blood would need to go to the US by fedex. In the UK, ladies tend to go to TDL or get the bloods drawn locally (on monday or tuesday) and post them (special delivery) back to TDL who have a fedex run to chicago mon/tue/wed early afternoon. I guess in ireland, you would get the blood drawn locally on mon/tues and then arrange a fedex pick up to chicago. The bloods have to arrive during US working hours and be less than 48 hours old for tests like NKa.


----------



## thumbelina

Just dropping by to say Congrats to cozy and dh.. I hope you are all home soon xxx


----------



## Klingon Princess

Have just come back from the GP, complete waste of time, he refused to give me antibiotics, he basically has never heard of this test and doesnt belive in it and since NHS tests showed I dont have chlamidia, I dont have chlamidia and its nothing to worry about...  oh well, it was worth a try


----------



## Mousky

KP - sorry to hear about your C results. I hope you can clear it in one go     


thumbelina - how are you holding on?    


How's everyone else?


I was a bit worried after I read Swinny's post about Cozy and her boy. I hope they're well     


I've had my 1st LIT yesterday and now I'm going to contemplate my options for the rest of immune tx. btw, can anyone tell me what's the dose of aspirin we're supposed to take? And I understand Dr G prescribes prednisolone? Which dose? One last question    I understand most people prefer ILs over IVIg because of the price? Is that the only reason?


xx


----------



## thumbelina

Hi Mousky - Im okay thanks hun, only 3 more sleeps to go      - The past couple of days I have been having stabbing pains in my ovaries which sometimes shoots down my legs. It must be my ovaries settling back down. My tummy has swelled more and I am eating loads which is prob a side effect of the prednisolone so I am still none the wiser.. lol - The dose of aspirin in 75mg a day - prednisolone is 25mg a day. Ivig and intralipids really depends on which one works  better for you. Luckily I respond better to intralipids but dr G did want me to have one of each but as I couldnt afford it I had two intralipids instead - Congrats on having your first LIT. Now the time flies     

Klingon princess - Im sorry about ur c result - I hope you can clear it quickly     

Berry - When are you having ur next LIT. Good luck     

Peanuts, Ells and Agate - Hope ur all good     

A big hello to anyone I have missed.

    and      to all.

Love Thumbelina xxx


----------



## agate

Mousky said:


> I was a bit worried after I read Swinny's post about Cozy and her boy. I hope they're well
> 
> I've had my 1st LIT yesterday and now I'm going to contemplate my options for the rest of immune tx. btw, can anyone tell me what's the dose of aspirin we're supposed to take? And I understand Dr G prescribes prednisolone? Which dose? One last question  I understand most people prefer ILs over IVIg because of the price? Is that the only reason?


yes, I'm worried too about cozy and her baby. I hope they are ok.

aspirin I think is 75-81 mg, depending what the shop has.

Dr G normally prescribes 25mg prednisolone.

most ladies prefer ILs because a) cost b) the peace of mind of knowing its not a blood product (with IVIG no matter how careful the supplier is, its always possible that there is some new undiscovered bug like HIV was before anyone knew it was there) and c) it gives almost no side effects (IVIG tends to make you a bit headachey and tired, and sometimes chilly).

but, some ladies can't have IVIG - e.g., if they have low IgM themselves (the risk of anaphalactic shock goes up) and some can't have ILs e.g, if they are allergic to the ingredients (which will always include soya and may include peanut or egg).

KP: that sucks. I have heard of other ladies GP's giving them a hard time, but then others being completely helpful and ready to prescribe the necessary antiBs. If you go to somewhere like asda, it probably won't be much more expensive privately. Do your test results for C show the actual level of infection (they normally say how many bugs they detected in the aliquot of sample tested)?


----------



## Klingon Princess

Agate, the photocopy I was sent is awful quality, almost completely illegible, I can just make out 2.2 x 10 and cant see the 'power of' figure.  the result box is blank, I can only tell its positive from the comments underneath.  should ring up and ask I suppose.


----------



## Mousky

Agate/Thumbelina - thanks for the answers on aspirin/pred and IVIg   


Agate - I think I read an older post of yours saying you couldn't have Humira? So I take it you've had IVIg and IL's? In your OPINION, this is less effective than Humira (to bring down TNF-a levels)? Now that I've really started my immune tx, I'm trying to decide about all the other drugs suggested by Dr G. My TNF-a were "only" 31.9 and Dr G thinks I should have Humira. I'm not sure I want to but I will, of course, if it's my only or best chance. I'm just trying to make an informed decision (rather than "take this and that"   ) and I would appreciate any info you can share   


KP - maybe it's not so strong and you can kill it in one go!


----------



## rosebud_05_99

Hi everyone,

I have an appt with dr gorgy in july can anyone advise me of a hotel within walking distance for the night , not too expensive. lol

thanks

rosebud


----------



## berry55

hi girls,

just a quick post to update you all. I'm having my booster LIT tomorrow with Dr Gorgy so hope that goes well. I'm also going to be having my early preg scan tomorrow. I'm so so so SO nervous about it and very very scared. I will let u all know how i get on. Thinking about you all. 

Lots of love
Berry

xxxxx


----------



## MissyMinx

Hi Ladies,

Just dropping by to say huge congrats to Cozy on the birth of your little boy.  Sending lots of    to you both and hoping and    that mum and baby are both doing well. x

Berry - good luck, good luck, good luck for your scan tomorrow.  Sending you and your beanie(s) a massive   

Hello and huge    to all.

Love,

Em.x


----------



## agate

Berry: good luck for tomorrow.

KP: as I'm sure you know, its the power of number which is the important one.

Mousky:  that's right.  My thinking is this: if your TNFa and NKa are both similarly elevated, then it seems reasonable to think that the TNFa elevation might be caused mainly by overactive NKs.  In which case we know ILs will suppress high blood NKa so ought to fix high TNFa.  But if you have high TNFa but normal NKas, to me, logically, it suggests the TNFa must be coming from something else e.g, something autoimmune, maybe bowel irritation, maybe arthritis etc.  In which case, I can't see why ILs would definitely help bring the TNFa down (whereas humira should because that is exactly what it was developed for).    IVIG MAY help more widely than ILs - certainly it has been proven to bring down TNFa in studies.  Dr G (following Dr B) also used humira when uNKs are very high - and again, there isn't any absolute proof that ILs would help with that specifically (whereas there are some studies, I think, looking at IVIG for that.

So,  I think my GUESS would be that a) if you have a TNFa problem that doesn't go hand in hand with an NKa problem, humira MIGHT be a better bet than ILs and b) if you can 'fix' things with 2 shots of H, that'd be cheaper than having several IVIGs... but this is only my OPINION, like you say.


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

Sending Cozy all my good wishes and thinking of you 

Peanuts, its almost unimaginable and I know after all the heartache you have had it must be absolutely wonderful (but a little scarey) to be told the start of arms and legs are there-wonderful!!!! Well done little bean-grow for Mummy!!!!  

Berry, hopefully you'll be following in Peanut's footsteps....good luck!!

KP, hope you can clear the C in one go, come join us on the C board under the Greece forum

Agate, sending you and the little one lots of good vibes   

Thumbelina, sending     

Mousky, its usually 75 mg aspirin and I have taken 25mg prednisolone in the past but not sure what Dr. G. recos. Re: TNFs, humira is probably the most 'established' but carries risks and some people can't take it. Interestingly CARE /Ndukwe recos. 2x intralipids to reduce cytokines and not humira (although I will do both). IL vs IVIG, there is the cost element but also as individuals it may be one works more than the other for each of us (but many believe the lab test for this are irrelevant as its about your physiological response). Some like CARE and SIRM now only use IL but when I discussed this with Dr. G. he felt uncomfortable as the IVIG has been used for longer and told me that when he talked with some of his US colleagues many are still using a combination of both (almost to cover the bases). 

AFM, got an appointment on Saturday to discuss my protocol, hope to start down-regging on 29th June

Hugs to everyone,   

Diane x


----------



## mag108

congrats COZY!


----------



## Klingon Princess

Agate, it doesnt look like a 5,7 or 8, other than that it could be anything, lol.  will try to find out tomorrow.


----------



## Mousky

Agate and Diane - thank you for the insight  Like I said, I'd prefer to make a conscious decision and I still have some time so I can "investigate" a bit more. I might see a doctor (hematologist) here in BE who uses IVIg. Another FF saw him but I still don't have many details. I think if I "qualify", it would be considerably cheap to have a IVIg here. I'm not so keen on the idea of a blood product but also don't love the idea of HUMIRA (I really don't want to upset anyone with this remark, it's probably OK to have both). My NKs were 21.2 so following Agate's explanation it _could_ be linked to my TNF-a 31.9. I guess we can only know what's the best tx after we've tried it, right? 

btw, Dr Tsagaris opinion is 2 x IVIg/ILs combo but that's probably because he says they still don't have a complete study with Humira. They were using Embrel(?) and that more senior Dr (complicated name but a lovely guy who helped us getting DH's HTLV in Athens) kept repeating it while they were discussing our "problem" in Greek to our amusement   Dr senior says LIT should also help bring my CD 56% down although it's only 11.1? Well, he didn't think it was "only" 

He also explained, even though we're not a match (DQ-a), we do have a possibility for an embryo that will never survive 1.1, 2.1 as long as it has DQ-beta 2? Huh  Dr T was being rushed by the nurse so he couldn't translate everything and I confess, I have no idea what it means  Could it be something to do with APAs? When I thought I had understood the DQ part  I thought the 4.1 was the difficult one? I have that one as well, btw 

Sorry for the long post


----------



## agate

As far as I remember, Dr B had a theory about where the father had DQbeta 2.1 (sometimes men who are DQa 2.1 will also be DQb 2.1 but not always - you'd  have to have that tested separately to know if your DH has that).  He thought that it was more likely to lead to a blighted ovum (not viable pg). But I remember seeing something in the files section on the yahoo reproductive immunology group which showed that Dr B changed his mind on this before he died because it wasn't evident in his patients (I think its in one of the interviews with him).  So I decided to stop worrying about that one (DH is 2.1a).

Regarding the 4.1,4.1 theory that Dr B had - the reason I am sceptical is that 4.1,4.1 is the most common DQa in countries like the UK - so if it was such a problem to be a 4.1, 4.1 embryo, how can there be so many of us that have survived?


----------



## Mousky

Agate - so lovely you got back to me about DQ-beta    Maybe that's why they wanted DH to get a karyotype sperm test. We tried to do it there, but when we called Locus, it was already too late.I think I'm not going to worry about it now. I'll try to read Dr Beer's book again (3rd time) or is there another source for lay people about immunology and reproduction?


----------



## agate

DQb would be a blood test (like the DQa), as would karyotyping, I THINK.  tests that would be on sperm would usually be all the different DNA fragmentation tests (there are several different ones). 

I don't know of any other books.  There are lots of books on immunology (and lots of books on fertility) but I don't know of any on reproductive immunology (except Dr B's one).  Maybe we have to try and write one.


----------



## Mousky

You certainly sound qualify for that job, Agate!   


Yes, I just realized he was drawing some fragmented sperm for us


----------



## Clarebaby




----------



## sunrise69

rosebud_05_99 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have an appt with dr gorgy in july can anyone advise me of a hotel within walking distance for the night , not too expensive. lol
> 
> thanks
> 
> rosebud
> Hello Rosebud, you can find a great choise at www.otel.com, you can choose one near Victoria Station, Oxford Circus, Regent's Park. (use advanced research).
> Have a nice day.
> Monica


----------



## Zeka

Hi ladies, just posting for a bit of support - day two bloods and sending off the C test today. All pretty trivial but it feels so strange starting all this ivf malarky again. Bit like ground hog day. Oh well, fingers crossed I get some 'friendly' results back from both tests. 
Big hugs to all of you special ladies,
Zeka x


----------



## smox

Good luck my lovely Zeko. This is your time! Keep positive hun!!!

Best of luck to all other ladies too
xxxxxxx


----------



## Klingon Princess

Well finally something is going in my favour, lol... I emailed the consultant at Reprofit about the chlamydia and I can get the drugs from his pharmacy.  They quoted me 67 euros plus 10euros post, but they doubled up the figures I gave them thinking it was for two people when I had already doubled them, so I cant see it coming to more than 45 euros total for both me and DH, and thats cheaper than NHS prices


----------



## vw22

Sorry to never post here unless I need something, but I never seem to have the answers to anyones queries!!!


My natural bfp after many failed treatments has sadly ended at 9 weeks. I am not naturally miscarrying so have to have a D and C. I never had terrible immune results but have IVIg, pred, clexane, aspirin throughout this pregnancy.  Does the fact that I am not naturally miscarrying mean anything?...ie; that the environment is actually ok? Projestrone etc...And that possibly the embryo is just genetically 'unhealthy'. Or is this where the DQ alpha test comes in? I have had my bloods done but not my DH yet. If we had the match would I have even got as far as implantation even with all the immune drugs? 


I know I am looking for very difficult answers to find and don't really expect any answers but any comments would be appreciated as its so hard to know what to think next and I can't get an appointment with Dr G for another 3 weeks. vx


----------



## agate

vw: I am so very sorry.  I can't imagine how you must be feeling right now. 
I don't think I have any answers for you - as a loss at that stage, I THINK, could be down to something which kicked in much earlier (like a DQa match causing an aggressive immune response) and held the embryo's growth back so that it eventually couldn't survive - so I don't THINK its possible to say whether it was something genetic, something anatomical, something immune or something clotting - unless there is some way to test to get more information.  I don't know whether that is a possible for you?  I THINK most docs would guess at something genetic because of your ages, but I don't think they could know for sure without testing the tissue.  Can your hospital do that?

I wish I could say something more comforting.  I hope Dr G can come up with a strategy for you.  I'm sure there will be one, but it will be difficult to know the reason for this loss unless you can be sure that its genetic by karyotyping the tissue/having it looked at under the microscope for evidence that it was a clotting problem (which could be down to immunes inc DQa matching).

I am so very sorry.


----------



## vw22

Thanks Agate. Thats where I am at but it helps to have someone else see it from outside of my little sad box at the moment. 


I am asking for them to test the tissue but you are right I can see there will not be straight forward answers even if they do. dh has had a karotype test but not a dna fragmentation sperm test. Am I correct that these are TWO different tests? I see Dr G can do this test as here in spain they are not interested. As I know its unlikely we will ever have the chance to use my eggs again here I am focussed on something I can test?! Thanks Again Agate vx


----------



## agate

yes karyotyping is totally different to DNA fragmentation.

A karyotyping test would show up any gross (large scale) problems with your karyotypes - that would affect all your embryos (and possibly affect every cell in your body).  Depending what problems it revealed, it could be something that is fixable/get-around-able with PGD, say, or something that is not. 

DNA fragmentation on the sperm tells you more about the state of the sperm DNA on a smaller scale - it can only tell you about the state of the sperm now (it could be different in 3 months time, possibly), and it can tell if there is a high degree of fragmentation (damaged DNA), which is associated with higher rates of miscarriage and pg failure, but it doesn't tell you whether or not a successful pg is possible - its not that specific.  Which is why some docs don't think its worth doing - as even if it shows a problem it doesn't tell you anything definite - just that its more or less likely that you will be successful (not how much more or whether you definitely will be or definitely won't be. 

If you karyotype the embryo - that can tell you whether that specific embryo was genetically normal or not.  So if you find out its normal - then that means that has to be another cause for the loss.  If its abnormal then you'd know there was really nothing that could have been done to save that loss.  I guess if you find out the embryo was normal then that would be very upsetting (and you'd have more evidence that the problem was immune/clotting/anatomical), but if you find out it was abnormal then you'd know that no amount of immune/clotting help would have made a difference.  Although, I THINK most docs would jump to the conclusion that it would probably have been genetic because they would think your ages are a big factor.

The other thing that I believe they can sometimes tell is if the placenta/trophoblast was basically starved of blood/oxygen which, if the embryo was genetically normal would be strong evidence of immune/clotting problems - so maybe there would be some reason/usefulness in testing that would help hone your protocol for DE.  I don't know whether you could get Dr G's opinion by phone on whether or not to test even if you can't get a proper appt for a few weeks.

I can only say how sorry I am.


----------



## vw22

Thank you so much again Agate. You have really simplified it for me. I really appreciate it, the info really helps. Vx


----------



## Clarebaby

VW,

So very very sorry to hear your news, I know how devasted you must be feeling.       .  My thoughts are with you.

I had a follow up appointment at my clinic yesterday and was told that my last loss was a girl    and that she had Trisomy 16 - a condition not compatible with life.  I don't really know how to feel about all this, as it seems the pregnancy was doomed from the start but wonder if it was actually my immune issues that caused the pregnancy to fail anyway, I have read that T 16 pregnancies can go to 12 or 13 weeks, and that would have been way worse.  Will see what Dr G says about it; I have a consult booked with him tomorrow to get my TNF retest results.

Positive note that having had this diagnosed my chance of having it happen again only increase by 1% from 25 to 26%, but has made me decide to have two put back in next time rather than the one.  I am 39 now and so I should expect higher risk of such abnormalities.  Still hurts though.  Unfortunately, the Docs response is that 'it's just one of those things'.

VW - If you want to PM me, please do.


----------



## Lexan

Hi Ladies,

Can I join, please?  I am wondering if I need immune testing before embarking on another IVF tx.  From my profile you can see I just done IVF in May.  Everything went well, drugs, eggs even went to blast.  Sadly ends in BFN.  Went for follow-up and was not happy as the doctor couldn't give me a reason why the embryos failed to implant after such a good cycle.. Thats was NHS, am due for another free go in 2011.  In the meantime, I would like to go private as DBF not willing to waste all these time especially as he taking vits to help his lil boys.

I went for consultation with Dr G last year, got the DR ( bruselin) drugs and was told to take cilest on my next AF and come in to start tx, due to the fact my NHS came up i didn't not through with him..I am thinking of going to him in August.  Do you think he will refer immune testing?

Also i got a list of the test that needs to be done off the Immune board, was wondering if I could ask GP to do them.  Knowing they might say its too much.  What is the MAIN test that i need to get done?

Thanks in advances

Goodluck to everyone with their tx
Lex xx


----------



## berry55

Just wanted to let u all know that scan went well today- we seen 1 heartbeat  soooooooo happy. I have to go bk to dr g tomorrow for a il drip. Was a bit worried as I just had lit done today but dr g said it's fine and i've not to worry. XXXXXXX


----------



## agate

Berry:  told you!!!  Is it ticker time now?  (I can't think of any reason why ILs would be incompatible with LIT either - ILs is given with the aim of normalising your immunes (like IVIG) not suppressing them (like steroids and humira)).

Lexusan: welcome.  Dr G will discuss immunes with you, I'm sure, but at the end of the day its up to you whether you want them done.  Its possible that there may be nothing wrong, and that you just need another go with IVF... but its possible there is something immune/clotting that needs 'fixing' to improve your chances. 

The list of level 1 tests is normally what people try to ask their GPs for - its basically tests for thrombophilia, for thyroid conditions, for autoimmune conditions (lupus, rheumatoid arthritis) - and karyotyping for you and DH - but not all GPs agree to do all/any of these.  Apart from karyotyping and thyroid, I THINK, most of them would be pretty much supersceded by the level 2 (chicago) tests that Dr G would do if you decided you'd have them.

I think he has some holiday planned at the beginning of august though.

good luck!


----------



## Klingon Princess

Agate, the power of number was 4, making the result 2.2 x104    dont know if its good or bad, but it seems high to me.

also, Stepan, the consultant at Reprofit says I do not need doxycyclene but hes added in a vaginal metronidazole tablet to the mix. so, I'd be taking double the metronidazole.  does this seem reasonable?


----------



## thumbelina

Hi ladies   

Diane - Thank you - Good luck for your appointment on Saturday     

Berry - Congrats on seeing the heartbeat hun.. Im soo happy for ya     

Cozy - I hope you and ur little one are doing well. Thinking of you     

Zeka - Good luck hun     

vw22 and Clarebaby - Im so sorry hunniis     

Lexusan - Welcome and good luck     

Klingon princess - Sorry not too sure bout the results     

AFM - Im going between thinking this tx has worked and thinking it hasnt. Im still getting stabbing pains in my ovaries but nothing else. A quick question TMI - I have been using the cyclogest in the back passage as I suffer from cystitis and I was advised it was better to use them this way but today I have been bleeding from there when I wipe from going to the toilet. Do you think it could be from the clexane. I hope its nothing to bad.. Two more sleeps to go      and I have two interviews at agencies tomorrow so that should speed the time up.

A big hello to Mousky, Agate, Ells, Donkey and all the lovely ladies I have missed.

    and      to all.

Love Thumbelina


----------



## sunrise69

Hi girls,
I'll be in London to see Dr. Gorgy next Tuesday hopely he has some answer for me.
How did you pay his consultation and Chicago tests? By credit card it will be great for me. 

Vw22, so sorry to hear your news,     
Cozy, congratulation for you little boy, I hope all is doing well.     
Berry, fantastic news!! So happy for you.     

Take care,
Monica


----------



## agate

Klingon Princess said:


> Agate, the power of number was 4, making the result 2.2 x104 dont know if its good or bad, but it seems high to me.
> 
> also, Stepan, the consultant at Reprofit says I do not need doxycyclene but hes added in a vaginal metronidazole tablet to the mix. so, I'd be taking double the metronidazole. does this seem reasonable?


grrr just lost a long reply to you. FF has not been on my side today.

I've seen ladies on FF with results from something x 10^3 up to something x 10^8 (if I am remembering correctly). So yours is not right at the bottom but its not really high either.

I can't speak for Stepan, obviously, but my GUESS is 
a) the flagyl (metronidazole) is mainly for the ureaplasma? (its not supposed to be particularly useful against C - its not on the evidence based C protocols for US CDC or UK NHS) - it is included in the Serum protocol - but I think its only on the off chance that the C is at a particular stage of 'dormancy', or to kill off any anerobic bugs that you might also have that might get in the way of the Tx for C.
b) the mainstream protocols use zithro OR doxy but not both - so my guess is that Stepan is saying that there is no need to have the doxy as well as the zithro.

However, the mainstream protocols have been developed looking at uncomplicated (i.e., recent) genital (i.e., detectable on vaginal swab) chlamydia, and according to what Serum have been saying (and what other ladies on FF seem to have being experiencing), infections that have been present for years and years can be hard to shift and can survive the mainstream protocols (some of the ladies who get a + on the greek test have already had the mainstream treatment) - which is why Serum suggest the combo of both zithro and doxy (and I assume that is why Dr G seems to have adopted Serum's protocol (so far)).

Stepan could well be right, and it may be that zithro is enough for you.

I can't tell you what to do, but given I think you said that you believe you must have picked it up a long time ago (and I don't know whether you've been on antibiotics for anything else in the meantime, but if you have, then presumably the C has survived that), I think IF IT WAS ME I'd want to blitz it hard with the combo rather than risk not shifting it and have it become even more antibiotic resistant. If you are not sure, then maybe you should speak to Dr G about it and see what he says? I guess you have the rest of your results to talk through with him anyway?

Thumbelina: it might not be the clexane. it could be irritation from the pessaries (they can cause physical irritation and the extra progesterone circulating can make everything down there more likely to bleed). You should probably discuss it with your clinic though in case they think its better to switch to vaginal instead.

sunrise: yes credit card (not amex though).


----------



## thumbelina

Thanks Agate x


----------



## Klingon Princess

yes, thank you Agate, you do deserve a massive thanks from all of us here I think.  I dont know what we'd do without your help


----------



## niccad

vw - I'm so so sorry to read your news. I can't begin to imagine the pain you are going through. I hope that somehow you are able to get through this and that you're able to find some answers   

Clarebaby - also so so sorry. I agree that as we get older having 2 put back makes so much more sense genetically. I hope that you find some comfort in actually knowing what was wrong   

Thumbelina - not long now. The waiting is a killer isn't it and I know that feeling of swinging between positive and negative. I will be busy     for you on Saturday.

berry - great great news about your scan... I had a 6week scan today and have to say that the floodgates opened when I saw the heartbeat (especially as I wasn't expecting to see it this early)... Looks like we're going to be bump buddies... Not sure about you but I'm still really really worried... I sometimes wish I wasn't with ARGC with this constant HCG numbers things as them not increasing 100% every 48 hours is making my hair go grey! when is your next scan?
xx

Diane - great to see you're going to start soon. Guessing the the antibiotics have done their trick... 
Hello to everyone else 
Nic xx


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies   

Cozy -      congrats to you and dh a lovely lil boy   

Berry - niccad congratulations to you both good to hear lovely heartbeats 

Thumbelina - fingers crossed for you lovely 

Vw22-       im so gutted for you lovely i really am i really hope Dr g has some  news for you that will help you 

Agate - hope your well lovely 

Hope all the girls i have missed are well 

Afm -I had my results for the mycroplasma - and dps sperm culture test and they were negative so im over the moon   

  R X


----------



## Mousky

vw - I'm really sorry about your m/c. Not sure what's the right thing to say, so sending you loads of    


Clarebaby - I'd also like to send you some    


Niccad and Berry - wonderful news about your scans    


Thumbelina - I so hope it worked for you this time       


Hi everyone!


xx


----------



## agate

KP: just realised I answered thumbelina and sunrise's posts in the middle of my reply to you... its not been a good day for me on FF... I hope you made sense of it anyway, but I've unscrambled it now just in case.


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

VW, I am so, so sorry to hear your news, its so heartbreaking.    

As agate said when you do the ERPC/D&C ask them to do karyotyping of the embryo. I'm not sure if you have had more than 3 miscarriages, I know they can be difficult about doing it on the NHS if less than 3 but if they are, just say fine can they give you the sample and you'll get it done privately (Mr. Gorgy can arrange the karyotyping). Dr. Gorgy can also look at immunes on a sample of the tissue from the ERPC. The solvent for the karyotyping and immune microscopy are different so you probably should discuss this with Dr. Gorgy ahead of your ERPC if possible so as agate said see if you can get a phone consultation or even a 5 minute conversation. 

Also on my last miscarriage I did the NK blood test right as my HCG was dropping so that I could see what my immunes were like at the time of miscarriage. Often clinics don't want to 'waste your money' on doing immune testing when you have already lost the pregnancy but for me I felt it was exactly the most important time for me to test so I could see what was causing these recurrent miscarriages.  If you haven't already, do the karyotyping on you and DH aswell. Looking ahead you may want to do CGH which can be done on the eggs at CARE or on the embryo with Dr. Gorgy if you do another round, which will help rule out chromosomal issues prior to transfer.

Clarebaby, sorry to hear your news but it is good to get some answers      You may also want to consider CGH?

Niccad, great news on the scan. I don't know if I will have totally kicked my infection but by the end of these antibiotics I will have had over 9 weeks of antibiotics and after re-testing my AMH and seeing how it has dropped, I am going for it assuming this 6 weeks of antibiotics I am on currently will have kicked it enough.

Berry, congratulations on your heartbeat too!!!  

Thumbelina      You could also switch to gestone injections if the pessaries are causing you issues.

KP, as Agate said 10*4 is not too bad. You may want to stick with Penny's protocol (2g Flagyll, 1g Zithromax, 2x100mg doxy for 22 days, 1g Zithromax), which has shown success on getting rid of that magnitude of infection, but its down to you. Perhaps discuss it with Mr. Gorgy.

Agate, Its quite depressing to be the 'upper limit' of the C range!    Yes, I reckon we should write a book in 'plain English' so that others can take the short cut to what we had to learn over the last few years! How about 'How to Cut Through the Fertility Debates- A Practical Guide To Steering Your Course Through Treatment'- written by patients for patients.

Lexusan, welcome! I'd recommend getting your full immune testing done and then looking at plans from there. If I could turn back time I'd have done everything right at the beginning.

Zeka, good luck with the C test!

Hugs to everyone else,

Diane


----------



## Pigloo

Hi girls

VW - I'm so very sorry to hear your news you must be devasted, I hope you can get some answers   

Clarebaby - Sorry to hear about your loss too, I hope you can take a little comfort in finding out the cause of your loss as the not knowing is awful. Sending you   

Berry/Nicad - you must be so relieved   

Thumbilina - Not long to Saturday, sending you some   vibes, I am sure the bleeding will be from the meds you have been taking.

AFM - Just wondered what your opinions were on having ICSI over IVF.  We have been offered IVF but I think we could also go for ICSI if we pushed for it.  We are using donor sperm so it SHOULD be up to the job of IVF but do you think there is any merit in going 50/50 i.e half IVF half ICSI? 

Pigloo x


----------



## Klingon Princess

Diane, the book is a great idea, lol.. you'd better start writing!  

I had a minor victory tonight... Stepan didnt want to give me the full protocol but I emailed and explained my reasons to him and got what I wanted lol, so wil pay for the    drugs in the morning and will have them in a week or so.

I can't delay my hysteroscopy, they wont change the date so I'm thinking it might be better to start the antiB's after the opp.  they wont be removing anything apparently, its purely diagnostic. they are doing a laparoscopy at the same time and of all the crazy things, wil be removing a tooth.

the dentist said the tooth needed to come out and I jokingly said that I'm having a general anaesthetic for the hysteroscopy and can't they do it at the same time?  and to my surprise she said,a ctually yes, they can... I was only joking,but it wil be alot easier forme, plus if the hospital do it, the tooth extraction will be free.. wondering f I can persuade them to do some liposuction at the same time.... (joking)

Oh, I looked up Flagyl on the net after reading on the Greek thread that someone said Mr G does not like it, and it seems to be used mostly for Trichomonas Vaginalis.. and there are carcinogen warnings all over it.. although with my NKs as high and agressive as they are, thats not likely to be a problem...  oh well...


----------



## Clarebaby

Klingon, had to read your sentence re the tooth about three times!! how mad is that!!


----------



## agate

Niccad: that's absolutely wonderful news. Bear in mind though that you only need the HCG to double every 3 days... and it is supposed to tail off the further along you are, so it is supposed to start slowing down sometime soon - don't give yourself a hard time about it.

Diane: sorry - but maybe there have been posts at higher ranges and I just know you better so I remember yours? 

I was thinking of something like "Your fertility treatment: How to find answers and regain control"  

Pigloo: well, the advantage of doing IVF is that there should be an element of natural selection, so hopefully the sperm that do fertilise the egg are naturally selected to be the best, and, there is some evidence emerging that, MAYBE IVF babies are healthier than ICSI babies (although its not clear - and possibly its just that those of use who have to resort to ICSI aren't quite as genetically fabulous as those who don't), but there is always the possibility that further down the line we find out that IVF is much better than ICSI for some health related reason (remember ICSI is so new that there aren't any adult ICSI 'babies' yet).

the advantage of ICSI is that it does tend to be an overall higher success rate because (unless the embryologist is rubbish), it should lower the chance of an egg failing to fertilise because of a)having too tough a shell, b)an antisperm antibody problem (or similar issue) stopping the sperm from binding to the egg or c) the sperm not being quite good enough to make it in there themselves.

So I can see the logic in doing a 50:50 split but bear in mind that UK clinics are 'rationed' as to how many patients they can transfer an IVF embryo together with an ICSI embryo to (the reason being that the HFEA want to be able to monitor IVF and ICSI separately).  So before you agree to do a split you need to find out whether if you ended up in the position of having only 1 good ICSI embryo and 1 good IVF embryo - whether your clinic would let you transfer them together - otherwise you might find you have to choose and freeze the other one.  Its not a problem if you've got several of one kind (or several of both), or if you want to do SET anyway.


----------



## Pigloo

Hi Agate

Hope you and bubs are well

I don't think I fancy the idea of SET for some reason I feel like having two on board will give us a better chance so if it would mean only having the one put back then I wouldn't do it.  Hopefully I'll get 16 eggs like I did last time though so i would have the choice   

Pigloo x


----------



## Klingon Princess

Clarebaby, I am more than happy (or at least, Ive got used to it) to have my bits and pieces probed and poked and tortured by complete strangers, but I'm terrified of dentists..  sinec I'm having a general anyway and wil be unconscious, haivng the tooth done at the same time seemed like a good idea, I just cant get over the fact they agreed... so now I have my gynae surgeon doing dentistry on me, lol


----------



## Bling1975

VW - I am so sorry to hear about your loss. I hope you get some answers.

I have a little question about the DNA fragmented sperm. We were never able to test my husband as he became sterile after our first IVF so we only have embryos in the freezer. He had a very low sperm count to start with. But how likely is it to be a problem if you had really good fertilisation rate and good embryos? I had 17 eggs, all got fertilised with ICSI, 15 was good on day two and 10 was good blasts on day 5. So far I have got pregnant 3 times from 6 embryos (5 transfers), only one of 7 didn't make it to transfer. We have 3 left in the freezer. I have had 3 mc between week 7-9.


----------



## agate

Bling1975 said:


> VW - I am so sorry to hear about your loss. I hope you get some answers.
> 
> I have a little question about the DNA fragmented sperm. We were never able to test my husband as he became sterile after our first IVF so we only have embryos in the freezer. He had a very low sperm count to start with. But how likely is it to be a problem if you had really good fertilisation rate and good embryos? I had 17 eggs, all got fertilised with ICSI, 15 was good on day two and 10 was good blasts on day 5. So far I have got pregnant 3 times from 6 embryos (5 transfers), only one of 7 didn't make it to transfer. We have 3 left in the freezer. I have had 3 mc between week 7-9.


its not something I've really looked into, but I can see that there are some studies that show that fertilisation rates with ICSI are supposed to go down as the rate of DNA fragmentation goes up, but there are others saying that it doesn't affect fertilisation rate and only starts to show problems as you get to blastocyst stage and beyond. So I guess the high fertilisation rate is encouraging but isn't proof. Bear in mind that even at high rates of DNA fragmentation there are many successful pregnancies (although the likelihood goes down) and egg quallity has a significant as good quality egg DNA can compensate for poor quality sperm DNA to some extent - they know this because sperm with a high degree of DNA fragmentation is more likely to yield a live birth if its used with eggs from younger ladies, than from older ladies, so that's a point in your favour too.


----------



## Clarebaby

Hi 

Hope everyone is ok.

Some good news for me at last!.  After two shots of Humira my TNFa has come down from 55.4 to 25.6!! hope I might not have to have anymore now.  The TNFg increased from 9.6 to 11.8 - don't really know what that means though - Agate (have you any wisdom on this one please).

Off out for day now, but have consult with Dr G at 3.30.

Thanks
C


----------



## agate

CB: you mean IFNgamma - there is no TFNg.  I don't THINK you've got any problems with those results - and that's an excellent response to H.  All systems go now, I'd think.


----------



## Louiseb26

Hiya Ladies

Cozy - Sending big   to you and your little one.My friend has just had a little boy at 32 weeks 3lb 14oz.His brother who is now 4 weighed 3lb 2oz. a BIG congrats to you and your family.

Berry,Niccad - Sending double   to you both...what a lovely moment for you.Well done to you.

Thunbelina - Sending loads of    I have everything crossed.

Agate - Hope you and your little one are doing just great   

Ratsy - So pleased the tests came back clear...your all ready to go now   Did DP treat you   I'm waiting for mine tomorrow   

Shellie - Hope your doing ok...talk to you soon   

Hope all the ladies that went over to Athens are doing well not to scratch   

Sending big   to Diane,Zeka,Peanuts,Moixe,Sunshine,Billberry,Swinny,Pigloo,CB,Em,Ellis,Mousky,Bling and everyone else i missed.

AFM all went well with my Hysteroscopy...it looks all fluffy...which is a good thing   Going to see Dr G tomorrow and I'm hoping I'm all good to go with TX now...I've waited long enough.Wish me luck girls.

Lou xx


----------



## ells

Hi ladies,

just wanted to pop on quickly to say and a few quick personals.

VW I am so sorry hun sending you lots of  .

Agate hun, hope you are doing well and that all is good with your little one.  .

CB great news on your TNFa levels - they have certainly come down alot.

Niccard - huni - guess what ..... you are pregnant!!!    Congratulations on the HB - totally amazing isnt it - I still melt each time we see the LO's.

Berry fab fab fab news hunni, I hope you are now starting to relax a little and enjoy being PG.

Zeka huni - hope you are okay. 

Ratsy, glad the results were negative - all systems go then sweetie.

Louise,  . Great news on the scope - you must be releived, I hope you have a positive consult with Dr G.

Diane huni, I am sure your 9 weeks of AB's have done the trick and you will have a successful outcome this time and that you will be enjoying dealing with lots of smelly nappies in 9-10 months!!! 

Peanuts - how is the lovely pregnant lady? How are you feeling?
TB - Sending you lots and lots of    for your OTD tomorrow. Remember *THIS HAS WORKED YOU ARE PREGNANT*

SarahH hope you are okay sweetie>? Any more scary hairy moment wth Qing?

Hi to everyone else  .

AFM, I am doing okay - think I am starting to feel the LO's move about - very exciting. Just wondered if anyone new of a scanning place in London that would do 4d scans with twins? Our local one wont do them if you have twins, apparently its a bit difficult to get them  . Having my next IL drip on Monday and then I have been very lucky and my next 2-3 will be done at the mat hospital on the NHS!!! The consultant agreed to follow Dr G's advice, I just need to tell the new constultant thats taking over his clinic at our next appointment!!!

Have a lovely weekend ladies and enjoy the glorious summer weather.

Ells


----------



## vw22

Just a very quick thank you to everyone for their lovely words. Will be back on later if tests etc provide any further info that I think might help anyone else too. In the meantime best of luck to everyone for whatever stage they are at in this incrediable journey we are all on! vx


----------



## Lexan

Thanks for your response Agate.
Went to my GP tomorrow and ask for Metformin, she was happy to prescribe it to me as i Knwo her it has help in the past. Next visit i will bring the list of immune test i wanted done as I told her about my failed cycle, she was nice towards me as was shock to knwo i have to wait til 2011 to tx again.  

Hopefully she send me for these test.

Have a nice weekend, Ladies xx


----------



## Clarebaby

On the waiting list for LIT now, so just have to decide whether to wait for Gorgy to get up to speed or head straight for Athens.  Also he mentioned these microplasma/ureplasma tests for both me and DH, need to check whether I have had these done but need to find out how to get DH done.  Any tips?

Thanks


----------



## SaffronXXX

Hi everyone! 

agate - you could be right, though I am pretty certain that Dr G said that he recommends UNK due to my borderline TNF-a, oh and my "poor" pg/birth history as he put it :-( Dr G didn't seem too concerned about elevated NK result (16.4%) and didn't even mention ILs until I specifically asked. Anyway, I think we'll consider getting UNK test depending on the outcome of this next IVF. I also thought of sending biopsy from this week's hys to Dr G but I am in the middle of the cycle and not close enough to day 26:-( Thanks again  for your good advice and info. Hope you are keeping fine. I am just lookin at your ticker. Gosh not long to go for you! You must be getting so excited! 

Lou - you had hys yesterday too? Hope you are taking it easy today. Good luck for your app with Dr G. Sending you lots of positive thoughts.

pigloo - we had to make the similer decision on IVF/ICSI split too as we were initially worried that we might have fertilisation issues. Our clinic said that we can leave the decision till EC is finished as the number of eggs is crusical in making this decision. We collected 10 and we were advised that there is no point in spliting this into 2 lots as we won't get a good enough idea for fertilization rate with 5 embyros each. We had 9 out of 10 fertilized by IVF so it was defo a good decision for us. If we had a much smaller number of eggs we might have gone for straight ICSI but then again we would have been committed to do ICSI for every cycle after that becasue it'd be too nerve wracking to go back to doing IVF after ICSI. I guess in a way the first tx is always a bit of trial and error. Hope your clinic can help you on making the decision.

VW -  thinking of you hunni

CB -  Great that you got a good TFN-a result! Is great when the plan comes together, isn't it? Upwards and onwards!

Berry - yay great news about the scan! You sound sooooo happyy!

Ells - That's good that you can get the next 2- 3 ILs at your local Mat hosp. Never heard of  NHS dr/con being supportive of something like this so it's great. Awww lovely to hear that you are feeling the movements now. Wait till you can feel them hicuup! It's crazy!

AFM - just home after hys/lap so taking things easy at home. Never thought I'd feel so sick afterwards. Just about have my first proper meal in 2 full days! Got app to have a prostap injection done next Mon to start downregging. [email protected] called to say that that's them received prscription for ILs from Dr G so that's good. I can call them with a date once I start on stimm. I just need to take the other prescription to my local chemist for other meds in a few days. Feeling excited and nervous but I least I know a bit more about the whole process this time

One question, what is gestone and what is it prescribed for? Does Dr G normally recommed you to take this for IVF/ICSI cycle Sorry I am still new to all these things related to immune tx. Also Dr G didn't say when to start on low dose asprin. In my last cycle I started on day 1 of stimm and stayed on till OTD. Does Dr G recommend the same?

Hope you are all enjoying the sun!

Sx


----------



## Pigloo

Hi Saffron

Thanks for the advice on the IVF/ICSI thing hun

Gestone is progesteron support in the form of an injection that you do into your bottom from day after E/C.  THats what Dr G has recommended for me and i Think most girls on here, especially if you have a low CD19+5 I think as I this could mean you have some antibodies to hormones.

Thats my interpretation anyway, i'm pretty new to this myself but picking it up slowly.

Pigloo x


----------



## thumbelina

Hi ladies   

Thank you all so much

Niccad - Congrats on seeing the heartbeat hun.. Thats brilliant news     

Mousky - How are things with you hun? Have u finished the antibiotics yet?     

Berry - Congrats on seeing the heartbeat hun - Im soo happy for you     

Diane - Thanks hun and thanks for the advice on the gestone - Good luck for starting soon     

Pigloo - Hope ur good hun and u have managed to decide whether to do ivf / icsi     

Louiseb26 - Thanks hun. Thats great about ur hysteroscopy - Good luck for seeing dr G and starting     

Ells - Thank you babe - It must be amazing to feel ur bubbas move and its great u can get intralipids on the nhs     

Agate - Hope ur good hun     

AFM - Im still getting some weird pains which feel like they are coming from my ovaries.. I really dont want to test tomorrow cos Im soo scared and asked hubby if we could on Sunday or Monday instead but he said there is no point in putting it off. By blood test my otd would be tomorrow but as the clinic arent open on weekends they said I could pee test on Sunday. Hubby said one day shouldnt make any difference and he just wants to know bless him. Listen to me blubber on.. lol

A big hello to anyone I have missed.

    and     

Love Thumbelina xxx


----------



## Desi

Hi Girls,

Thumbelina, all fingers crossed!!!!!!!!

Just to send you all a quick note to keep you informed: our "game" is on again.
CD1 today, tomorrow CD2 scan for cycle selection (they want to make sure this month is o.k. to start).  
Blood tested this morning, so far so good.
Was very excited about the FSH, it seems the DHEA has done its work.
I started to take this as my AMH was 0,09..........   (am a low responder).

FSH 5,6 (used to be around 7,9)
LH 3,5
Estradiol 0,17 (nmol)
Progesteron 1,6 (nmol)

Does anybody know something about these values on CD1?

Am really excited to start again, after the disappointment of the FET not taken place last week.
It would have been such a nice little present if for once it would work out in our favour, but unfortunately it did not.
Battery positively loaded again for this fresh IVF cycle.

Wishing all of you warm regards and hang in there!
Xxx


----------



## thumbelina

Thanks Desi - Good luck for your cycle     

xxx


----------



## sarahh

Thumbelina - just wanted to wish you    vibes & good luck for test day (whether you choose tomorrow, Sunday or Monday!)  & tell DH of course a day can make a difference when it is so early on.  

Cozy - I    that your little boy born at 28 weeks is doing well.  It must be a very stressful time for you, look after yourself   

Niccad & Berry - great news on your scans, heres    the next 8 months fly by! 

Lou - good luck for your appt tomorrow and hope you can start soon    

Ells - weird feeling them start moving eh?  does it feel like little butterfly movements?  As for the Qing situation - had another yesterday and she inserted 3 of those strange things in my ears!! How long do they stay in?  And how hard are you meant to press them??  (In case anyone is wondering she is an acupuncturist & she put some "seeds" she called them in my ear yesterday which you are meant to press to stimulate various parts of the body   !) 

VW - so so sorry to hear about your m/c.  I hope that the tests reveal something that can be dealt with / some explanation.  

Agate, you never tell us how things are with you honey, you give us all this wonderful advice but no one is there to help you!!  hope everything is ok?   

AFM I started suprecur this am and my myco / urea plasma tests came back negative thank goodness.  Bad news for the day is that DH failed an exam he studied 3 months for!!  

Nite all,  Sarah x


----------



## thumbelina

Good morning my lovely ladies   

Sarahh - Thanks hun - Congrats on starting suprecur and ur test results coming back negative     

AFM - Well I got up this morning and tried to pee but as usual when doing a test couldnt. I managed to squeeze a few drips into a container and did the clearblue digital. It took a while to come up so I was sure it would be negative but then after 8 years and three icsi's we finally got those lovely words - pregnant 2-3 weeks     !!!

We know its early days but this is the furthest we have ever got!! We are over the moon   

Thank you soo much for all ur support. I cant wait to tell Dr G!!

Sending loads of      and     to all.

Love Thumbelina xxx


----------



## silverglitter79

Gatecrashing...but have just popped on to pass on my many Congratulations to Thumbelina. I am from the Kings thread where T had her 1st cycle and have also gone through immune Tx with Dr G which resulted in my twin boys born in January. I'm chuffed to bits for this blessing given to my FF buddie Thumbelina.

Goodluck to all you ladies going through immune Tx at the moment - Dr G makes dreams come true.

Silverglitter79


----------



## thumbelina

Aww silverglitter thank you so much - You have got me sitting here in    

Your boys are absolutely gorgeous!!

Love Thumbelina xxx


----------



## Mandchris

Thumbelina - CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR BFP!!!!! Wishing you all the best for a healthy pg.

Hello everyone, i tend to read rather than post and have only recently got my iinternet back.
I just wandered if anyone else had similar experience I had 2 x Humira  and my levels have risen    Just started nxt dose, have FET at end of July, is there a chance i will need more? (i know silly question but am so annoyed)
Agate - just wanted to say thanks for all the support you give on here, i have learnt a lotfrom reading your posts, hope all is going well for you.
Mandy xxx


----------



## SaffronXXX

Just a quick one to say congratulations to thumblina! What a fab fab news!!!


----------



## vw22

Thumbelina, fantastic news!!! Congratulations!!! vx


----------



## agate

Thumbelina: that's fab news!  are you all sorted with your next steps - drips and stuff? - booking for your first scan?  congratulations!

MandChris:  apparently, it does sometimes happen that TNFa flares up when you start humira.  Dr B said repeatedly that it was a good sign and that it did show that your body was reacting to the humira, and that it should come down and give a good result after a couple more shots.  I think he even claimed that success rates were a bit higher for ladies that flared first before their TNFa came down.  I don't think anyone can promise you that it will definitely be down after the next 2 shots, but I would be hopeful.


----------



## ells

Thumbelina - whooooo hoooooo!!!!  Congratulations on your BFP - I knew this would work for you hunni!!!!  So so so pleased for your hunni.  Enjoy your day - I am sure you'll have face ache before the end of the day from all the smilling and grinning    .


Morning to everyone else, hope you are okay and that the weather improves!

Ells


----------



## Klingon Princess

Thumbelina, congratulations on your bfp... well done!


----------



## ratsy

Thumbelina 

Congratulations lovely      im so pleased for you and dh enjoy the next 8 mths   

R    xxx


----------



## Clarebaby

Thumbelina, huge congrats!!!!!!


----------



## berry55

thumbelina- welldone hunny!!! huge congratulations to you and your dh!!! xxxxx


----------



## Mousky

Hello from Rio   


Just logged in to see your results, Thumbelina         I'm so happy for you    I hope everything goes well!     


A big    to everyone else. I hope you're well.


I'll catch up later.


xx


----------



## smox

Thumbelina!!!!!!!!!!!!!    
Congratulations! What a fab piece of news! So happy for you        
Have relaxed and trouble free pregnancy hun

Love and good wishes to all other ladies
xxxxx


----------



## mag108

Thumbelina, cons on your bfp! FANTASTIC NEWS!

VW: Just wanted to say how very very sorry I am that this pregnancy has not worked out. It is SUCH a hard thing to deal with. I dont have an answer to your question, but my last two m/cs  ended very slowly, my hcg took a month to fully drop (and went up for a while). I cant say I ever got an answer why. Maybe Dr G can help with that question. Have you had the hidden  c test? HUGS to you.
For DE I imagine karotyping tests are less an issue as it seems really more relevant to 'older' eggs?

Clarebaby: so very sorry...that must have been really difficult to hear x

Have been burning the candles at both ends! Sorry no more persos! Can hardly keep my eyes open! x


----------



## Diane72

Thumbelina- wonderful news!!!!!!!!!!!!      CONGRATULATIONS  

VW, STILL THINKING OF YOU  

Diane x


----------



## thumbelina

Hello ladies  

Thank you so  much 

MandChris- I hope ur levels go down     

Agate - Thanks hunnii - Im going to call Dr G first thing on Monday to go in for a drip after I have been to the clinic. Im going to ask him to test my hcg levels too. Its all so exciting. I hope everything is good with you     

I just had a little wobble. Me and dh told our parents as they knew about tx. He told his mum not to tell anyone till ive at least had the first scan but I just had a call from his cousin congratulating me. It looks like his whole side of the family knows. It upset me cos it should be down to us to tell peeps. Not only that he was at work so called his mum and sister to tell them and neither of them have called me yet his mum has had the time to tell everyone!! I know its not good for my embies for me to get upset but just needed to let some steam off... And breathe.. I just hope I havent caused any damage to my little ones worrying about it.

Sorry for the me post.

I hope all u lovely ladies are well.

Lots of love,      and      to all.

Love Thumbelina xxx


----------



## agate

thumbelina said:


> Me and dh told our parents as they knew about tx. He told his mum not to tell anyone till ive at least had the first scan but I just had a call from his cousin congratulating me. It looks like his whole side of the family knows. It upset me cos it should be down to us to tell peeps. Not only that he was at work so called his mum and sister to tell them and neither of them have called me yet his mum has had the time to tell everyone!!


why do people always do that!!!! I guess at least its just a thoughtless thing to do rather than a 'nasty' thing to do if you see what I mean.


----------



## thumbelina

Thats very true Agate xxx


----------



## mag108

thumblina: not very thoughtful of them at all (but I am sure it is out of joy they did it).
Try to put it to the back of your mind for now and think of all your good fortune!
X


----------



## thumbelina

Thanks Mag108 x


----------



## mwb

Hello!

I have followed you ladies here for a while and wonder if it would be OK if I join you? We have had 6 miscarriages, the latest in March 2010. All of them early, week 6-9.  We had our first appointment with Dr Gorgy in early June (and lot of test taken) and will talk to Dr Gorgy on Friday to discuss the test results. Can I ask you a question? I sent a hidden C test that arrived to Athens this Wednesday, do you think it is enough time so that Dr Gorgy will have the result until Friday? (10 days after Athens arrival).

/ C


----------



## agate

mwb - if  athens have had your sample for 10 days - that should be oodles of time.

just a suggestion - but you might get more out of your appt if you ask Akbil to fax you all your results asap - then you can go through them before your appt (if you want some comments, or guesses on what Dr G's interpretation and Tx will be for them, just post them on here)... that way you can get an idea of what Tx Dr G is likely to suggest and why, and then you can focus your questions better on the things you really need to understand.  Sometimes Dr G is a bit hard to understand so its easy to come away a bit confused, whereas if you kind of know what sort of things he is going to say (and why) you will come away a lot more reassured and settled.


----------



## mwb

Yes!! thought it was quite hard to understand Dr G even when we saw him IRL.  

I will try to get the results asap, and would really appreciate to have them looked at here.

Thanks!


----------



## Cath34

Hi everyone, thanks so much for your congratulations. We are doing well thank you and little Hari is very contented bless him. Its all so surreal ladies, but my god all of the hard work to get pregnant is well worth it. I cant stop looking at him!!
I'm not sure what Ive missed on here as I theres too much to read back through.
Niccad - congrats to you I believe, well done you. Not sure who else but I will read back though when I get a chance, in between nappies and feeds and sleep!!! whats sleep?!!!! 
Best wishes to all. xx


----------



## SaffronXXX

Hi can someone answer my question?s?

Does anyone know how long to stay on low dose aspirin during IVF cycle? I am assuming I start on day 1 of stimm but I don't know how long to stay on it :-( Dr G gave me the prescription for other meds but not for aspirin presumably becasue baby aspirin can be bought over the counter.

Also, I heard that someone on CARE board say that they take calcishew 500mg (calcium tablet I presume) alongside Clexane. Has anyone else heard of this or have you perhaps taken extra calcium during IVF? 

Also my IVF consultant told me to take high dose folic acid but never told me from when and how long. Has anyone taken high dose folic acid during a cycle before??

I'm trying to make up a table with all the dates and the meds I am supposed to be taking this time but it looks so complicated!

Help!


----------



## SaffronXXX

Oh I am so0000000 muddled up... My prescription says ''clexane 20mg UNTIL the day before EC"' Does Dr G mean that I take the last Clexane 20 mg on the day before EC? So is it like...

Approx day 11 - HCG trigger  - continue taking 20mg of clex 
            day 12  - Still take 20 mg of clex
EC Day day 13 - *A break from Clexane*
            day 14 - Start on increased dose 40mg of clex

Or does he mean STOP taking clex the day before EC ie the last clex 20mg is on the day of the trigger? I seem to remember agate wrting that we need 48 hrs clear of clex before EC or something? Or maybe I read it wrong :-(


----------



## agate

SaffronXXX said:


> Does anyone know how long to stay on low dose aspirin during IVF cycle? I am assuming I start on day 1 of stimm but I don't know how long to stay on it.
> 
> Also, I heard that someone on CARE board say that they take calcishew 500mg (calcium tablet I presume) alongside Clexane. Has anyone else heard of this or have you perhaps taken extra calcium during IVF?
> 
> Also my IVF consultant told me to take high dose folic acid but never told me from when and how long. Has anyone taken high dose folic acid during a cycle before??


I THINK Dr G normally suggests being on aspirin all the time during your Tx- its 75mg (or 81mg) that you buy at the chemist. Some IVF clinics might ask you to stop it just for a couple of days around EC - so you might want to check with your clinic.
Clexane can deplete your calcium levels, especially if you get pg so end up on it for several months - so the longer you are on it for, the more important it is to take extra calcium especially in the 2nd and 3rd trimester of pg when baby needs it the most. I THINK any calcium supplement will do - calcichew (chocolate calcium toffee) is expensive and has a lot of sugar/sweeteners in it. Calcium citrate (like Lamberts Calasorb) is less likely to give you constipation if that becomes a problem. If you are given doxycycline before EC you need to leave a gap of 2 hours between taking calcium and doxy. 
5mg folic acid tablets are available from your GP (or you can buy a lower dose and take enough to add up to 5mg). Its probably not something you would want to take all the time (unless you have one of the thrombophilias like MTHFR **** where you MAY be advised by your doc to take it all the time - it carries a VERY tiny extra risk of some cancers), but I THINK you want to be on at least 400mcg folic acid all the time you are TTC (most docs say you want to be on folate for 3 months before baby is conceived) and if you have been advised to start the 5mg stuff, then you probably want to start it before your Tx so you start off with a good level of it - as presumably there is some reason why your clinic thinks you might be depleted.

Re clexane: I THINK its like this: ideally, you should take it in the morning (just in case you ever need to do a heparin blood test) - and you shouldn't vary your clex time by more than 2 hours. 
HCG trigger is usually at night. So on trigger day you take your clex as normal in the morning and the trigger at night (at the exact time your clinic tell you to).
Then the next day ('drug free day') you don't take any clex.
then the next day you have your EC and don't take any clex - but you usually start gestone (if that's what you've been prescribed - if you haven't done it before ask the nurse at the IVF clinic to give you and DH a tutorial and do your first shot before you go home - its much easier if DH will do your shots for you - bedtime is a good time).
then the day after EC you start your clex (at the higher dose if that's what you've been prescribed) - unless you are still bleeding from EC - in which case you'd phone Dr G to get advice.

Basically, you are just trying to make sure that you don't bleed too freely at EC because that will make the EC more difficult.


----------



## SaffronXXX

Hi agate,

Thank you thank you for the quick response! You have clarified everything for us. Honestly what do we all do without you....

Dr G never recommneded me to have gestone but do you think I should ask gestone from my IVF clinic? I know pigloo (BTW thanks pigloofor this info) explained that it's often recommended if you have low CD19+CD5. Well, after checking my test result it looks like my CD19+CD5 is only 2.9 (5-10)!!! so perhaps this applies to me?? If I get gestone I start on the day of EC and stay on? Do I take gestone at the same time as the progestrone pessary

Sorry for more questions :-( Your help is much much appreciated.

SX


----------



## SaffronXXX

oh one more thing what is doxycycline I don't think I was given this before though.


----------



## agate

Dr G normally prescribes gestone if 
a) your CD19+5+ is HIGH (because CD19+5+ is associated with autoimmune antibodies - which MIGHT include anti progesterone antibodies so you MAY need more, steady, progesterone).
b) you have auto immune issues - Dr B said that ladies with auto immune probs need extra progesterone (and for longer than the usual 12 weeks of pg)
c) you have had bleeding before OTD on previous cycles
d) you start to spot/bleed before OTD this time 

Some ladies take pessaries or gestone.  Some take both - but whatever you do its better to spread them out during the day - so if you do 2 pessaries - try to take them about 12 hours apart - if its 2 pessaries and 1 shot, do them about 8 hours apart etc.  you are aiming for steady levels of progesterone.  400mg cyclogest is ROUGHLY equal to 50mg gestone.  Progesterone doses vary a lot between different ladies.  Some are fine with 1 x cyclogest.  Some need several cyclogest plus gestone to avoid bleeding... its a bit of trial and error thing, but I THINK too much is probably safer than too little.  The main downside to increased progesterone is constipation, but the upside is that progesterone is anti-inflammatory so the worse your immune issues are, the more progesterone MIGHT be worth having.    Maybe look back at your results and if you think there is any reason why you might benefit from extra progesterone then discuss with your clinic what they suggest (although they may not be interested in discussing it from an immune point of view - more from the point of view if you've had bleeding or spotting before OTD previously).

doxycycline is an antibiotic - some clinics give it to all their patients prior to any gynae surgery (including EC) just in case (to prevent infection) - many don't.  some give it to you if they think you have a higher risk than average of infection e.g, previous history of infections.


----------



## SaffronXXX

Oh I see. I have never spotted before the OTD and I don't really spot during my 29 day cycle either so I guess there may not be a point in me having gestone.... Not sure what you mean by autoimmune issues... perhaps I need to go back to Dr B's book! 

I have just written a letter to my clinic so i have asked about gestone in there, they might say yes they might say no. I guess if more is better than less then it's worth asking.

Thanks agian


----------



## niccad

Thumbelina - YIPPEEE!!!     I am so so pleased for you. So sorry to hear about your MIL and her lack of being able to contain herself. I always try to see the best in people and hope that she was just so excited for you that she cracked! Hoping that that's the case anyhow. We have also only told parents and my MIL is having real difficulty not telling anyone. I keep saying that we'll tell people after the next step but then I get cold feet about it... not told my brother or SIL yet and not sure how I feel about it. I guess you'll know when it's the right time - just so annoying that the choice was taken away from you by an overexcited MIL xxx

Cath - so lovely to hear from you and that little Hari is doing so well xx

Hello to everyone else 
Nic xx


----------



## sarita36

Hi all,


Hope you don't mind me crashing the thread to be a bit selfish but I just had a failed cycle with the ARGC and I had a consult with Dr G last week because the ARGC were really really fab but they pretty much dismissed my concerns abt infection and desire to take antibs during stimming and after ET - I had wierd symptoms after ET as soon as I started taking prednisolone but when I went in to discuss in my 2ww they pretty much just told me to go away. I was planning to go with ARGC again but had a consult with Dr G last week and was impressed.


Dr G seems alot more open to the antibs etc - but he doesn't actually do EC or ET - does anyone have any idea how good they are? And how good/close his monitoring is?


Thanks in advance xx


----------



## Pigloo

Sorry Saffron - I did say Low and as Agate says its high CD19+5, sorry for any confusion hun   

Pigloo x


----------



## agate

sarita36 said:


> Hope you don't mind me crashing the thread to be a bit selfish but I just had a failed cycle with the ARGC and I had a consult with Dr G last week because the ARGC were really really fab but they pretty much dismissed my concerns abt infection and desire to take antibs during stimming and after ET - I had wierd symptoms after ET as soon as I started taking prednisolone but when I went in to discuss in my 2ww they pretty much just told me to go away. I was planning to go with ARGC again but had a consult with Dr G last week and was impressed.
> 
> Dr G seems alot more open to the antibs etc - but he doesn't actually do EC or ET - does anyone have any idea how good they are? And how good/close his monitoring is?


What you could do is have the extra screening tests that Dr G suggests for uterine bugs - if something is found, then he can better tailor which antiBs to put you on. He does tend to treat immunes differently to ARGC - e.g., by using higher doses of steroids started earlier on in stimms and by having IVIG/ILs drips also 7-14 days before ET. For ladies who don't have an obvious need for humira due to high TNFa, he does tend to suggest a uterine biopsy to check for uNK cells - and if they are found at a high level - blitz them with humira pre Tx too.

He does do the EC and ET himself - he uses the facilities at other clinics - london women's clinic (I think, at the moment), and their embryologist will do the embryology. As to attention to detail - he will want you to have daily bloods and frequent scans during most of stimms - but my IMPRESSION is that he is a lot more 'see how it goes' than taking a programmed approach like ARGC - so he will want to reconsider your dosage every day, but will probably make a decision on gut instinct at that time - so its a little less structured- but I guess the advantage is that he is good at listening to your own views and taking what you want into account too.

I guess if you prefer a really structured approach to the stimms part, you could go with another clinic for that, and go with Dr G for immunes. If you think you do have an infection issue though, it would make sense to go back to Dr G for screening asap - in case there is something that needs a long course of antiBs.


----------



## Saffa77

Ladies

What would you do?  I am booked in to have my IL's next Friday (which will be 4 weeks from my previous one)  and with the last 2 retests I have pretty much had the same results and Dr G just carries on recommending another drip.  Now this time I am not wanting to do a retest cos of the cost and will be happy just to have my next drip again after this one in 4 weeks time.  Do you ladies think I should get a retest?  especially as I may be at the time levels peak in pregnancy ??

Help LOL was thinking of just having the restest done the next time.

Sx  
i need help LOL


----------



## agate

saffa: replied on your other post.


----------



## Louiseb26

Morning Ladies

Thumbelina - Well done my lovely    Its brilliant news....congratulations   

Ratsy - Me lovely.Hope you had a lovely weekend...shame its got to end.Mondays come round to quick   Big   to you.

Sarahh - Glad to see all the test came back clear.Looks like I'm not far behind you...i start injecting Suprecur on the 25th.Cant believe I'm ready to go...only 4 mths late   

Saffron - Hope your feeling ok after the Hys/Lap and your starting to eat again...it does knock you for six   

Agate - The lovely agate...still on here helping others.Hope you are both doing ok   

Niccad,Berry.Hows it all going with you both? Still smiling on   enjoy lovelys   

Ells - Time seems to be going so fast.How exciting that you can feel little LO moving sending   to you both.

Em - Hope your doing ok lovely.Sending big big   to you.

Big   to Smox,Diane,peanuts,Swinny,Zeka,Pigloo,Shellie,Mousky,Billberry,Sunshine,Moxie,and everyone one else i have missed.

AFM Saw Dr G on Sat and im pleased to say we are all ready to go   I start Suprecur on the 25th.I'm so excited on starting...its been ages.

Love to you all

Lou xx


----------



## Mousky

Hello everyone,


I hope you're well   


I know it's been discussed here a thousand times before but I'm still wondering for how long we're supposed to be on Aspirin and Prednisolone? I'm shopping around but I wasn't sure about the amounts.


xx


----------



## Clarebaby

Hi

Please can someone let me know, are the microplasma and ureaplasma tests for my DH done on his urine or is it the other type of male sample?

Thanks


----------



## Mousky

The other


----------



## agate

Mousky said:


> I know it's been discussed here a thousand times before but I'm still wondering for how long we're supposed to be on Aspirin and Prednisolone? I'm shopping around but I wasn't sure about the amounts.


pred til 12 weeks then you taper off.
aspirin all through pg - unless you get bleeding.


----------



## Mousky

Thanks again   


On the same topic, how much have you ladies normally pay for prednisolone? And can you get 25mg pills in the UK? I can only find 20 and 5 mg what made me wonder how to wean off when needed? I'm sure we cannot split the pill?


----------



## ells

Hi Ladies,

Mousky, I dotn know how much the pred is to buy but I have had both 25mg tabs and then 5 mg tabs, it may be easier for you to get a mixture, the 5 mg ones are better when tappering your dose down and weaning off.

Hope everyone else is okay, Il's went fine today and now just off some more acu.

Ells


----------



## agate

I had a mixture too because 25mg work out cheaper than 5 x 5mg but you do need 5mg ones when you taper off.


----------



## Pigloo

Hi 

Mousky - I got a quote at [email protected] here in the uk and they were 51p per tablet for 25mg Pred.

Louise 26 - OOh you start your suprecur a few days before me..good luck with your tx

I have only got my px for 4 weeks should i order the 25g ones for the first 4 weeks?  I know that I need to taper the dose off and will presumably be prescribed more pred if I get a BFP so then I could get a misxture of the 25/5mg.  However what happens if I get a BFN and I have ordered all 25mg tablets??  Will Dr G prescribe more pred so I can taper my doesage after a BFN  (Hopefully I'll get my BFP   )

Oh whilst we are on the subject, i am getting rather worried now about all of the extra drugs that Dr G has prescribed, Intalipids/Pred/cleaxne/gestone.  I'm worried I might be doing more harm than good.  Do you any of you think this could be possible??  I'm mainly concerned about the pred/intalipids

Pigloo x


----------



## agate

pigloo: lots of us have got pg taking that combination of meds.

pred and other steroids are very old drugs and have been taken by millions of people for all sorts of conditions - taking a short course of them is very low risk.  the only real danger would be if you caught something nasty like chickenpox or measles and you didn't get help for it.  apart from insomnia, most ladies feel really good on steroids, as the more unpleasant side effects like weight gain normally take a lot longer to kick in (and won't if you are sensible with what you eat).  there is a tiny extra risk of cleft lip/palate for baby - but its probably even less likely if you are taking folic acid, and most of us would take that risk if the alternative was to never have a baby at all.  there is a slight increase in the risk of insulin resistance, but you are probably only going to be at risk if you have that tendency anyway.  

gestone is just progesterone in oil - so unless you are allergic to the oil used, it doesn't really have any downside (except constipation)... after all when you get pg, your prog levels will be much higher by the third trimester than they are when you are on gestone in the first trimester (so you will have to deal with constipation!)

the only serious risk from intralipids is if you are allergic to the ingredients (soya and sometimes peanuts and eggs).  other than that, the only thing it can do is wobble your blood fats and sugar a bit (which isn't likely to be a problem unless you are an undiagnosed, unstable diabetic or something like that) - at the end of the day it is only soya oil in saline solution - and you get a similar (but milder) effect if you stop eating saturated fats and eat unsaturated fats instead. 

clexane is chosen because its the blood thinner that comes with the least risk of uncontrolled bleeding.  its very rare to get any problems with it, and you would see it coming because you would get warning signs like bruises in places that you haven't jabbed/injured or nosebleeds - in which case you'd get your antifactor Xa (heparin) levels tested and get advice.


----------



## Pigloo

Thanks agate   

So for the first 4 weeks dr G has prescribed 25mg pf Pred - do you think its necessary for me to order all 25mg tablets or some 5mg ones aswell??

Thanks ever so much


----------



## agate

well if you start on day 5 of stims, stim for 12 days, then its 3 days to EC, and you test on EC+14 - thats 24 days - so if you have 28 days worth, then it gives you 4 days either way to sort out a pg Px or if you need a few pills to taper down.  Some pharmacies won't give you a choice because they only have 5mg in stock (I think that's how I ended up with a mixture - I definitely didn't ask for it)... if you ask them and they won't split the script between 25mg and 5mgs then I wouldn't worry about it - as you can get what you need later... maybe just ask which one works out cheaper and get that?


----------



## Pigloo

Agate - I have to wait 16 days to test from E/T with this clinic!!!!    I guess I could just ring Dr Gs office a week before and get them to write me a px so i can go and get the pred when i need it.

P x


----------



## agate

Pigloo: personally, I would try to line up blood tests with your GP before that (2 tests, roughly 2 days apart - roughly EC+14 and EC+16) - because if you get your BFP you will need to sort out another drip fairly quickly and the longer you have to do that the less stressful it will be for you - most GPs will be humane about this if you explain how stressed you are and how much less stressful it will be for you to go somewhere local rather going to your clinic etc.  IVF clinics often give you a very long OTD - because that makes their life easier - they have to deal with fewer early losses etc -  and most of the patients don't have any medical need to know any sooner - but for immunes you need to know because you have drips to organise etc.

but yes, if you just need another Px, you can just ask Akbil to arrange it with Dr G for you.


----------



## SaffronXXX

Lou - how exciting that you are strating this week too. That's me started downreggin today. A brand new cycle here we go!

Ells - Glad to hear your ILs went ok 

Pigloo - I am on pred, clex, aspirin and Intralipids too. We decided to leave out LIT but hoping this protocol is enough and does the trick. What I can gather, this is very similar to what a lot of ladies at CARE gets too so like agate says it's a pretty standard protocol for immune tx. I was up at 5am this morning as I was starting to feel quite worried about this cycle all of a sudden.  I couldn't get back to sleep so went back to read Dr Beer's book where you can read info on a lot of studies on those meds. What I read is very encouraging as most studies reports "'significantly improved'' pg rates when these meds are used. Only a week till you start downregging! Sending you lots of positive thoughts hunni

agate - re autoimmune issues. Dr G said that I had tested + to one of the level one tests which was for anti-bodies. I am not sure if he meant + ANA....? Is that the only test oin level 1 related to antibodies?? If that's the case thoguh, I should perhaps be asking about gestone? Also in my last cycle I ended up in hospital with OHSS following ET. My clinic said today that looking back my oestrogen level was pretty high prior to EC. They said they might have to skip a booster HCG after ET to avoid OHSS happening this cycle. Now I now that gestone is progestrone and not oestrogn but would it also contribute to worsening OHSS 

AFM - had a prostap injection to start downregging this morning. I am on a long protocol again so expecting the EC to be in the middle of July. Gosh it's not too long away that is, is it?! DH and I went to IKEA on the way back, which was nice. We bought a huge bathroom mirror and two foldable wooden chairs for the kitchen and ate swedish meatballs. Bliss  

Hope everyone else had a nice day too. It's fab the sun is out!

Sx


----------



## agate

I'm not sure which test he meant. 
I don't THINK progesterone exacerbates OHSS.  HCG does, which is why a lot of clinics don't use HCG boosters, only HCG triggers and then progesterone - and its why OHSS gets worse if you do get pg because the embryo produces HCG.

high estrogen just means that you had a lot of active follicles at the time of EC - and a lot of follicles means a higher risk of OHSS... so you should check with Dr G/your clinic but I don't THINK progesterone will give you an increased risk of OHSS and you are going to need some sort of progesterone support especially if you are not going to use HCG support.


----------



## Pigloo

Thanks Agate - I think i will try to get that done, although I haven't informed GP that I am doing the immunes stuff (he's put me off telling him after he was sceptical about the thyroid thing, I managed to convince him to give me those)  I could say I was spotting as that's the only way I got them to test my HCG last time (I was bleeding for real then tho) its not like they are going to check is it.   If I get a positive preg test on a pee stick can I organise ILs based on that?

Agate - you have really helped me through all of this and I just want to let you know I (and prob all the girls on here) think you are wonderful and really know your stuff, I take my hat off to you for taking the time to understand it all (and soo well too) and then translate it all for us FF'rs!!!   

Saffron - Thanks for your post hun, I believe there are numerous Antibody tests for level 1 immunes, I tested positive for thyroid Antibodies on those tests.  I guess it depends what exactly was on your list and if they tested them all for you.  Do you know what tests you had done? I asked for copies of mine x


P x


----------



## agate

thanks.

yes, you can use a pee stick - but bloods will be more accurate/certain - as if you do 2 blood tests you can check that the HCG is rising properly and you definitely have a growing embryo - whereas pee sticks just give you a 'yes,hopefully' or 'probably not' answer (and you'll need something sensitive like First Response as opposed to clearblue digi).  I guess if its only an ILs drip its not quite as important to be so sure because its a lot cheaper though.  It will give Dr G more idea of what is happening though if you have blood test figures to give him.

maybe you don't have to mention immunes if you don't want to?


----------



## SaffronXXX

Thanks agate and pigloo. I got the copy of level one test from my GP so photocopied it and posted out to Dr G prior to our consultaion but when we got there Dr G said he hadn't received, although he did have my letter and other test results which I enclosed in the same envelope   Anyway becasue of this I ended up giving him my copy of level 1 test which I took along to FGA just in case.... I think I might have to go back to my GP to give me another copy now!

I think the best thing for me to do may be to call Akvil tomorrow to ask Dr G about me getting gestone just in case. I know my clinic gives p pessaries but I am beginning to worry that perhaps I could do with gestone on top of that.

Night ladies.

SX


----------



## mag108

HAPPY SOLSTICE EVERYONE
(I was awake at 5:30am with the sun streaming thru and bees trying to get in my room, I am a little delirious now..)


----------



## thumbelina

Hi ladies   

Niccad - Thank you so much    - I have calmed down now. Spoke to dh's nan and she said not to blame his mum.. She was so happy she was crying and didnt mean to open her mouth.. lol. Hows things with you? When is ur next scan? Any symptoms yet     

Donkey - How are things with you hunnii? Hope ur good. Do u have any symptoms yet?     

Mousky - Hope ur good hunnii     

Louiseb26 - Thank you so much my lovely - woohoo!! Thats brill u can start.. Wishing u the best of luck hunnii     

Berry55 - Hope ur well hunnii     

Agate - Thank you for answering all my questions. You really are brill.. I hope u and little one are doing well     

AFM - I had my pregnancy confirmed at the clinic yesterday but they dont do levels so I went straight to doc g after and had another intralipids and a hcg and progesterone test. I didnt have the second tests until 2pm and the results took 4 hours to come back so I called doc g back at 6pm but he was out the office. He did say he saw my results and they were both very high which is brill. He asked how many embies I had put back and I said 2 and he said that he cant guarantee it but he has a feeling I may have twinnies    - Im over the moon. Ive gotta call back after 9am today to get the exact figures. Either way, whether I have one or two I am the happiest person alive at the moment.. lol

A big hello to anyone I may have missed.

    and     to all.

Love Thumbelina xxx


----------



## thumbelina

Hi ladies   

Me again - I have just spoken to dr G and my hcg 17 dpo is 654 and progesterone is 807..  I told him I had blasts and it was 17dpo rather than 14 dpo but he still thinks there is a chance of twins.

Ells and Saffa. What were ur levels at that time?

    and      to all.

Love thumbelina xxx


----------



## agate

thumbelina - you can look at some charts on this site:

http://www.betabase.info/showBasicChart.php?type=Twin

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## thumbelina

thank you so much Agate.. So there is a strong possibility then xxx


----------



## Pigloo

Thumbelina - Just wanted to say congratulations hun


----------



## thumbelina

Pigloo - Thanks sweetie      xxxx


----------



## ells

Hi ladies,

Thumbelina my levels 14 days post EC were 427.  We had 2 blasts transfered too.  I am really pleased for you hunni!!  Sounds very promising hun!  What dates your first scan?

Mags    up at 5.30am and bees!!!  Crazy!  I hope you feel a little better and less delirious soon - alternatively a little nap may help!!!

How is everyone else?  This weather is glorious, nice and warm already and its only 10am - shame I'm not working from home today!!

Ells


----------



## thumbelina

Thanks hun. My scan is on 8 July.. Hows things with you? - It is a lovely day today. I need to go and collect a script from asda so will take a slow walk up      xxx


----------



## Dolly Rage

Hi everyone, 
am sorry to butt in on your thread but I wondered if any of you lovely ladies can help me. I haven't got a proper profile on here yet so to give you a bit of background me (37) & DH (34) have been TTC for just over 4 years. At the beginning of the year we had our first ICSI treatment at Guys, 2 blasts put back, I had a +ve pregnancy test for around 3 days but was negative by test day. For various reasons we are now at the FGA with Dr Gorgy and undergoing tests. I have decided to give up my job (my last day is in 2 weeks time) because it is v stressful and long hours and I didn't feel like it was helping our cause  - this was the scariest thing I have had to do and it has taken a couple of months to get my head round it. Anyhow, my work healthcare doesn't cover fertilty treatment but it does cover fertility investigations so I should be able to reclaim the cost of the tests (I know I am very lucky that this is the case)  - we paid £2,075 - so am hoping we get most of this back, especially as in a couple of weeks I won't be earning anymore and all our savings will be going on treatment.

Finally my question - on the invoice that I have recieved from the FGA it shows 2 tests that I am not sure what they specifically relate to and I need a few more details to make my claim. They are shown as "FGA 4&6" £700 & "F25M" £250. Can anyone tell me which specific tests these are - the other tests that are mentioned separately are karotyping, LAD, DQ X2, chlamydia and HVS. I know I could ask Akvil but I thought I would ask here first rather than bothering the clinic. Plus I am hoping that once I finish work I will have more time to read up on all the useful info on this board and to get to know you all better.
Thanks in advance
Dolly


----------



## agate

Dolly: I think FGA4&6 might be NK assay and cytokine ratio (FGA5 is NK retest (the cut down version of NK assay)).

Maybe F25M is inherited thrombophilias?  But unless other ladies know for sure I think you might have to ask Akbil.

good luck with getting the money back from your insurer- I have vague recollection that some ladies have managed to do this but others haven't - I guess it depends on your insurer's rules.


----------



## thumbelina

Hi ladies   

Just a quick question. I need to go for my hcg and progesterone re-test tomorrow. Does it need to be done at exactly the same time as the one I had yesterday or would I be able to have it done 3 hours early?

Thanks for ur help.

    and     to all.

Love Thumbelina xxx


----------



## agate

if its more convenient you can have it done a bit earlier or later than 48 hours and if its not obviously doubled then use one of the HCG online calculator things (google for them) to turn it back into a standard measurement - so you can check that the 'doubling time' is less than the important 72 hours- the maths is far too hard for me - but someone clever could probably do it in 2 secs with a scientific calculator.


----------



## thumbelina

thanks Agate xx


----------



## ells

TB I did mine about 40-42 hours later and it showed the right sort of increase.  So long as its going up thats all you need to know.  Not long to wait until your scan - the 8th is only just around the corner - 2 weeks and counting!!!

I am feeling okay by the way - I have a pretty big bump already!!!  Still feels surreal mind!  Make sure you drink lots in the heat - I find that I get more aches when I dont drink enough.

Ells


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## thumbelina

Ells - Thanks hunnii - I should be fine going after 45 hours then. It just makes things a lot easier. Lol.. Yes the 2 week 2 days countdown is on.. lol.

Im glad ur feeling good. I bet ur loving the bump.. Can u feel ur little ones moving? Im drinking like a fish today.. lol Im  really thirsty       xxx


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## Mousky

Ladies   


Thumbelina - twins or singleton, I'm really happy for you     


Pigloo - thanks for the Prednisolone quote. Penny recommends me to start the steroids together with ABs before I start the meds for FET. So I might need a few more pills    Do you happen to know the price of clexane?   


Dolly - I had to call her to get this answer. Too bad I don't remember anymore what it was   


xx


----------



## Shim

Hi ladies

Hope you don't mind me crashing, but was hoping someone could help with a little question i have. I'm sure this has already been asked and answered many time, but what vitamins do you put you DH's on before and during cycle to improve "things"? The only real thing which may be an issue is morphology, so it would be great to get some advice as to what we could potetntially do.

After a long list of things that could and have gone wrong we are hopeully able to start a cycle in August/Sept so wanted to try and get things right this time. Dr G is helping us out with the immunes so fingers crossed - 5th time lucky!

Thanks so much in advance.

Shim x


----------



## Dolly Rage

Thanks Mousky and Agate,
I expect I'll have lots of questions over the next few months so its such a relief to know that all you experienced FGA-ers are out there.


----------



## agate

for morphology I'd go with a men's multivitamin like wellman (for the basics like zinc, C & b vits and selenium) and then add some antioxidants like lycopene (you can boost lycopene intake by adding tomato puree to all your cooking) and/or pycynogenol - there are others like resveratrol and n acetyl cysteine  (but there is slightly better evidence (from what I remember) for lycopene and pycnogenol.
you can add amino acid supplements like maca and/or carnitine/arginine - but they SHOULD be unnecessary if he eats a good diet.
and then obviously he shouldn't smoke, drink alcohol, cycle loads, be overweight, be on medications like antidepressants, eat too much junk food, wear tight knickers, or have a lot of artificial sweeteners.  Obviously it takes 3 months to make sperm - so if he is going to change anything by august he needs to get on with it now.

mousky: clexane is about £4 at cost price (40mg)- but different pharmacies charge very different markups on it.  In theory if its fertility, ASDA are supposed to guarantee to sell it at cost price (according to their marketing blurb) - but I don't know whether they would agree to class it as a fertility drug.


----------



## Vaudelin

Shim - just wanted to say that my DH had an improvement in morphology (7% normal forms 12 months ago and now 15% normal) and I am convinced it was due mainly to drinking more water and cutting back on caffeine.  I agree with all Agate said but for my DH I am convinced it was cutting back on caffeine that made a big difference as he drank quite a bit and that really was his only vice!

I have also read that selenium and Omega 3 (good quality) are also good for improving morphology. 

Good luck.

xxxx


----------



## agate

vaudelin:  you might be right on the caffeine front - studies are mixed but some do seem to show a link between high caffeine intake and poor morphology.


----------



## Mousky

Thanks, Agate. Your ticker is going really fast now   
I forgot to ask, I have no major clotting issues, so I should only take Clexane for the 1st 12 weeks IF I get a BFP, obviously?    
I'm glad Prenisolone and Clexane aren't as expensive as the rest


----------



## Vaudelin

Well the only things my DH has done differently are cut back on caffeine, increase water intake and cut back on hot baths.  Saying that, he does take quite alot of vitamins - Wellman (normal one as can't find conception one at the mo and normal ones were on offer), plus vitamin C, vitamin E (forgot to say in earlier post this is supposed to be UBER good for fertility), zinc, omega 3 and co-enzyme.  I basically looked at the multi-vit and compared it with what Zita West recommends for men in her book.  Drinking water is also supposed to be very good for sperm.

DH has also tried pycnogenol and acupuncture but neither seemed to make a difference for him.  Everyone is different though.  Zita reckons if you can get a decent multi-vit down a man then that is always a good start as men generally aren't big fans of taking lots of vitamins.  Basically try and get as many vitamins down him as possible!


----------



## Pigloo

Well I have just rang Akbil but spoke to Dr G, I asked him if he could wright me a seperate px for the ILs so that I can get them from [email protected] so that I can shop around for the other drugs and he said that [email protected] do all of them and that he doesn't write px's for every single drug (I wasn't asking him too!) then he mumble something couldn't work out what he said and then just said ok  and rushed me of the phone! Looks like I'm getting mine from [email protected] I guess their prices aren't too bad though..sigh!

Pigloo x


----------



## Mousky

Pigloo - so you need a px for Pred and Clexane? I might be able to get prednisolone without it but I'm not sure I can get Clexane and I'd prefer if I don't need to ask Dr G for another px


----------



## agate

Mousky: in the UK pred and clex are Px only drugs - so over here, you would need a Px from Dr G or another doc.  A lot of us find that our GPs will let us have pred and clex on the NHS though once we have a confirmed pg. 
how long you need to stay on clex does depend on your individual issues but I think if you have an NK problem, Dr G would probably tell you stay on it until 31 weeks ish (that's the point where baby is basically viable even if your NKs start to act up - as it takes about 4weeks-ish for baby to be affected by high NKs by that point, at which you will be almost full term). 

If you have a significant clotting problem then sometimes you have to be on it until several weeks after baby comes.  If you get bleeding (not just spotting) though, sometimes Dr G will tell you come off clex or drop the dose to 20mg until a week after the bleeding stops (but the advice will probably be different if you have severe clotting issues).


----------



## Pigloo

Mousky - Yes as Agate says its px only here.

You prob have better luck speaking to Akbil   

Pigloo x


----------



## Mousky

31 weeks?    Why have I decided it was a 1st trimester thing?   


Pigloo - luck with speaking to Akvile? alright, I'm waiting for a receipt for a month now!    If you don't have the credit card number, I'm sure you cannot have your phone consult, right? But, of course, it's no problem not giving you the receipt so you can claim a refund with your insurance!    I'm gonna have to call her one of these days when I'm calm    but I see this going to cost me another 90 GBP if I need to remind Dr G about my px. That's why I keep on asking so many things to you ladies, so when I call, I have many questions, requests to make it worth it


----------



## ann69

Hi everyone,
We went to see Mr G yesterday for an initial consultation armed with my GP and ARGC results. We are due to start treatment next week at our local clinic and I was hoping he would prescribe the intralipids for me, which he said he would however we left in a bit of a blur as to how to arrange everything - can anyone fill me in on how it works please?

I'm also in a right pickle as to whether to postpone the cycle as we ended up paying out for all the tests that the ARGC didn't do i.e. LAD, DQAlpha, some thrombophilia ones, HVS, some semen tests and I have the stuff to do the menstrual blood one.
I'm scared that if I start treatment next week and all the results aren't back I'll regret it if something is picked up and we end up with another failed cycle. I told him I didn't really want to delay and he said he could do soem intensive treatment if needed but what do you guys think? am I just being impatient and should I wait a month?
How long do the results take to come back?

Sorry for all the questions I'm just in such a muddle now!


----------



## Pigloo

Mousky - I have no clotting issues either - I wonder if we will need to be on Clexane after the first 3 months? I don't see why you should need to pay £90 just to ask for your px, its hardly a phone consultation?


----------



## agate

if you had tests sent off yesterday, most of them might be back maybe by saturday, but probably by monday.  
DQa will take longer though - probably 2 or 3 weeks.
for the C test obviously you'll have to wait for your AF - then it takes about a week to get back.
I can't remember whether you've told us what your ARGC tests already show, but I guess you might have the LAD, thrombophilia and some of the infection tests back before you start your cycle.  If the LAD comes back low, obviously there won't be time to get 2 shots of LIT and it might not even be possible to get 1 shot of LIT before your ET - but I guess you could aim to get it asap if there is a BFP (maybe you'd have to go to athens to get it done sooner) - but its possible that a low LAD might reduce your chances of getting that far, so maybe you'd want to postpone?  If any infection tests come back positive, again, there wouldn't be time to do a complete course of antibiotics so you'd either have to postpone your Tx or maybe take some of the less aggressive but safer for pg antiBs - but then you'd risk not clearing the bugs and making them more antiB resistant. 

By default I guess Dr G would have you on prednisolone, clexane and intralipid drips (maybe gestone).  If the Tx is all agreed with Dr G, then you could probably just phone Akbil and ask her to arrange a Px for the pred, clex and ILs (unless you are going to go and have your drips at Dr Gs in which case you don't need a px for that).  

It is tricky obviously, because the tests could come back showing nothing new - but then to have such expensive tests done and not act on the results is a bit of an odd move - and presumably you've had these tests because you think that there is something else going on that needs to be sorted? Unless you are banking on intralipids being the missing factor?  Do you think your clinic would be ok about you postponing for a month or so (for 'personal reasons' etc) to get this stuff sorted out?  A month or so doesn't seem long to wait if it means the difference between a BFP or not? But its got to be your decision.

Pigloo: if you have NK issues, I think you might be on clexane til 31 weeks (but am not sure).

Mousky: if the Tx has all been agreed, Akbil should be able to sort the Px out for you without you needing a consult.


----------



## ann69

Agate - thanks again. The ARGC results showed a slight raised CD56 at 12.8 and thats it everything else I've ever had checked seems to come back fine and yet in almost 4 years I've never got pregnant other than a chemical with my first IVF. I guess I just want to cover all bases, but just feel gutted to put it on hold. But like you say a month's delay in terms of getting a BFP is nothing. I'll wait til Fri and see what results are back and if nothing I'll phone my clinic and see about delaying, I'm not sure how it works but I guess its possible to delay?


----------



## agate

I'd expect its possible to delay your NHS cycle but I don't know how booked up they'd be and how soon you'd be able to reschedule... I guess it depends on what shutdowns they have for holidays too?


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies 

Lou - congratulations on starting you tx its about time youve waited ages   

Mousky - I went to DR G for my mycroplasma and semen culture test and i asked him for my px and what dates for my IVIG and ILS and he charged me £90 follow up so be careful i thought it was to pay for him doing the test but it says follow -up on reciept id already asked him at my last follow-up and he said il tell you all this nearer the time but charged me £90 again so if you have any questions  id wait and get them all asked in one go 

Anna69 - hope you get your tests sorted out 

Ells - can you remember how far apart you had your IVIG and ILS im sort of looking at 3-4 days apart and bit worried its to close 

Agate - Thanks for all your help yesterday i really appreciate it your such a star and so kind to all of us helping us all out 
   

Thumbelina / niccad / berry / hope those lil bumps coming along nicely   

Hope all you girls who ive missed are ok and enjoying all this lovely weather   

Girls im abit worried i had my humira 2 weeks ago and ive woken up today with a stinking cold runny nose red like rudolph and feel rubbish, Im never ever ill think my last cold was over a year ago  im worried now does that mean the humira is not working have i wrecked  my chances 

Thanks girls 

R    xxx


----------



## ells

Hi Ratsy,

I had IVIg on day 7 of stims and Il's on Day 9 - but you are fine between days  5 and 7 for IviG and upto day 9 for Il's as long as they are done on different days you are fine sweetie.

As for your cold, I am pretty sure its a sign that the humira is doing what its supposed to.  I felt fluey after mine.  Hope you feel better soon hun.

Ells


----------



## SaffronXXX

pigloo - have you tried asking your IVF clinc about ILs? Mine said they can perhaps suppy and administer it for me at the clinic which might work out cheaper than [email protected] so I am hanging onto Dr G's px for now. 

Shim - my DH's morphology was as low as 1% 2 years ago. He generally eats v healthy and only drunk alcohol v occasionally anyway but he pretty much gave up alcohol, caffein, took maca (in tablet form as it's easier to take), multi-vit tablets and Vit C tablets(a lot of research done on this and it sounds encouraging. Just google) and a year later his morphology was 14%. We subsequently had IVF and we had 90% fertilization rate.  So yes, lifestyle change and supplement can really improve S quality. Also if your DH has infection or poorly that can easily have a knock on effect on it so retesting in 3 months time might be a very good idea to get a fair idea.

thumblina - I am so so excited to read your news about the high hcg! Totally over the moon for you 

Dolly Rage - just to say hi! I know what you mean about not wanting any more stress by working. It really is very difficult, physically and mentally. I too decided not to work for a while. I work for the council and they were pretty good in agreeing to give me unpaid leave for the rest of the year. I am hoping this cycle works for us but if it doesn't we intend to cycle again in Oct folloing LITx2. When are you planning to cycle again?

Ells - your tummy is being stretched to allow more space for your bambinos so no wonder you get more aches when you drink more! Glad to hear you are keeping ok though. Being pg during the summer can be awuful as it's a bit like walking with a radiator inside you! You take care hunni 

ratsy - Do you get heyfever? It is the height of hay fever season just now. I wasn't bothered by it for years but this past 2 years it's been really bad and I am waking up with runny nose and sore throat this time of the year. My daughter also gets coughs and a sore throat this time of the year (she is asthmatic) and Dr told us it's probaby H F related. I really hope it's not anything serious and hope it's a good sign rather than bad like ells said. Take careX


----------



## ratsy

Thanks ells/saffron   

Yes i do get hayfever ive had it for yrs i dont think its that tho as i normally only get runny nose when i sneeze i normally get itchy eyes and i havnt had that just blowing my nose constantly and i just dont feel well i feel like i want to lay down i feel abit rough and my head feels full    i think il get dp too look after me   

For once i wish it was hayfever   

Thanks for your good wishes 

R x


----------



## Pigloo

Mousky - As promised here are the prices [email protected] quoted me for Clexane.

20mg Clexane = £3.48
40mg Clexane = £4.64

Saffron - Re my clinic giving me ILs - I'm with an NHS clinic so I haven't mentioned my immunes to them - I am only guessing but I doubt they will 'play ball' also I was told by our PCT when i was enquiring about funding that you couldn't mix Private drugs not available on the NHS with NHS tx so i'm not going to risk it.  I'll have to bite the bullet and pay up!

Saffron - Your so lucky - I wish I could take unpaid leave for the rest of the year, I think they'd let me but I just couldn't afford it   

Pigloo x


----------



## sarahh

Ratsy - being ill, although a pain in the    is a pretty good sign as actually if your TNF is being lowered by the Humira then you are far more likely to pick up bugs as your immune system is lowered (also evident but you NOT having been ill for a year or more - your aggressive immune system is great at fighting bugs - but that is not great for getting pg).  So in short, its not nice being ill but try and take some comfort that your TNF may finally be lowered after the Humira.  

Gosh, its taken me ages to catch up!  Loub - you are just behind me then!  Are you cycling with Dr G too, I can't remember? 

Thumbelina - good luck for your Hcg tomorrow but sounds like you are off to a fab start.   

Its taken me so long to catch up I must get off to bed now!  

AFM - started down regging on Friday and have a scan / bloods on Friday this week with a view to starting stimms on Friday too (I think).  

BTW - Dr G is away from 26 or 27 June - back on 1 July I believe. 

Hi to everyone else 

Sarah x


----------



## Dolly Rage

Hi everyone,
Saffron - thanks so much for your little hello - it felt v welcoming and my DH was laughing at me as I was chuffed that someone had said hi.

yeh, the whole giving up work thing has been a major decision for me which I was wrangling with so much over the past couple of months that it was causing me more stress than the job! We just seemed to get so sidetracked by work that months would fly by without us really doing anything and even though I managed ok with the physical side of ICSI and didn't need any time off (though I did blow up OHSS stylee between EC and ET - oh the cruel irony of having colleagues look at you askance trying to work out if you are pregnant when it couldn't be further from the truth) I did find the 2ww a complete head fcuk (sorry - can't think of any other way of describing it) and found it so hard to concentrate on anything. I work in an asset management company so its just not an environment where I could tell anyone what I was doing and also unfortunately not one where they'd even entertain the idea of unpaid leave. So I've decided the best thing is just to take some time out to really concentrate on trying properly - there seems so much to learn especially in relation to immune issues. 

I think my plan is to take a couple of months to get healthy and feel like I am in a good place and then cycle again. We have our follow up meeting with Dr G in 2 weeks time to go through our test results so we are just waiting to see what that throws up and what we need to do. My chlymadia test came back negative so am pleased not to have to take antibiotics for months (though does anyone else secretly worry that they didn't do the test properly/there wasn't enough blood/didn't get it to Greece fast enough  -or is that just me being silly?)

We've ended up at Dr G because on the night I had my ET I felt seriously ill  - it was like I had come down with a major bout of flu - (which I found odd in itself as, like many of you no doubt, I am never ill, something I used to think was great).  I had a really high temp, and aches and pains and couldn't get comfortable all night. I was really concerned as to whether this was normal and tried the internet but couldn't find anything and then as my ET was a Friday there was no-one around to ask over the weekend and by Monday I felt silly like I had imagined it and never mentionned it. Then being impatient i ignored all the rules and started testing early, i went from -ve to +ve for 3 days and then back to -ve on "official" test day. So I started to think about implantation issues which made me think about all the weird long periods that I had had over the past few years (normal cycle would be 30ish days but then every so often I would have a 40-50+ day cycle that I thought was just my periods being crap but I now see could be that i was pregnant but implantation failed  - oh I should mention that I did manange to get pregnant almost 3 years ago but it was a missed MC - 2 sacs no heartbeats and I had a D&C. Anyway I heard about Dr Beer's book read it and we discussed immune issues with Guy's where we had our ICSI but they would not do any testing which is how we ended up at Dr G.

Really sorry to go on - and am sure that I should have put all this info somewhere else - like the introduction page or my profile, so sorry for taking up so much of your time. I'll try and read the FAQs and tips soon so I know what i'm supposed to be doing/ posting etiquette and also read up on you ladies so I get to know you a bit better. I definitely need tips from you on how to deal with Dr G. I know lots of people say he is lovely when you get to know him but we've met him twice and I've found both times quite difficult - difficult to follow what he is saying/ coming out feeling confused etc.

sorry for going on, night night, 
Dolly R


----------



## Mousky

Pigloo - thanks for the quote    clexane is very expensive here (probably going to get it in the UK) but Prednisolone is not too bad, something like 80 GBP for 12 weeks. If I can get it without a px (I think I can buy it online   ) I might buy it here. I was a bit worried about getting everything on the very same px and not being able to shop around for better prices. I was surprised to find out Bayer is no longer selling low dose aspirin here. The lowest dose is 100 mg. So I'm gonna have to get it in Europe. It must be cheap, though.  btw, I think we need to take Clexane for a longer period because ladies with high NK cells are also prone to clotting. I might have read something about it being a way to kill the intruder? I'm sure Agate or the other ladies can give a better explanation   


ratsy - I'm afraid that's the difficult part about Dr G. I think he does such a fabulous work and I understand he's very busy, trying to help everyone but this 90 GBP thing is a bummer    I'm preparing for my next consult when I'll need to get my px and organize the dates for my meds/drips, discuss retests and results, so I'll only need to call (and pay) once. I must sound really cheap     but tbh for us it's quite a lot of money for all the meds, tests, retests, trips to Athens, London, etc.


Dolly - sent you some welcome bubbles    


Love to all.


----------



## ells

Dolly welcome to thread, I am sure you will get some answers as to what has been going on.

Hope everyone is okay this morning.  Another lovely day.

Just a quickie... I bought some absorbable calcium from GNC is this okay to take? They are capsules with liquid vit d and calcium in.  

Ells


----------



## agate

Mousky said:


> I think we need to take Clexane for a longer period because ladies with high NK cells are also prone to clotting. I might have read something about it being a way to kill the intruder?


I THINK its because if there is a background of immune attack we are more likely to have compromised blood supply (microclots etc) to the lining and placenta so clexane should give us some extra protection from that.

Ells: I'm taking something similar to that.

Dolly: I don't really have any tips - just to be as organised as possible yourself and understand as much as you can yourself (this group is good at helping you with that - because we do try and pass on what we've figured out to each other) - then its easier to get Dr G to fill in the gaps/assure you that you've got it right, rather than feeling all muddled, in the dark and 'short-changed' if he is rushed with you - writing out lists of what you need to know before you speak to him is invaluable because its so annoying to hang up the phone and then think something like "but what dose did he say? what day am I supposed to start it?" etc. I think the good thing about Dr G is that he does take your views on Tx into account so if there is something you are wanting to try (or wanting to avoid) he is flexible - and not as autocratic and patronising as other docs can be... but the bad things are that he is disorganised (he always squeezes everyone in who needs an appt, but then he is spread very thin and is trying to play catch up with his calls and appointments all day....he really could do with a helpful nurse, some leaflets with the basics in etc - sometimes I think that's maybe what us girls on here are doing a bit of?) and the level of personal interest he gives you seems to depend on how busy he is that day and how well he gets to know you. But I wouldn't swap him because I've been less impressed with all the other docs I've seen - at least he opens up options rather than other docs who I feel tend to shut them off... if you see what I mean.


----------



## Pigloo

Mousky - no problem hun   

Agate - did I read something, I think it was you who posted about it (may have been on another thread) that if when you are taking Clexane you develop bruises in places other than the injection sites that you should do something can't remember what was said now?  I tend to develop brusies now (have done for a whilie) for no apparent reason i.e i have one on the back of my calf and small one on top of my thigh and can't think of anything I've done to acquire them  I was just worried about this when taking Clexane..  

Pigloo x


----------



## agate

most people have no problems when they are on clex.  but if you get symptoms like bad unexplained bruises or bad nosebleeds (not just a little trickle), then you should speak to a doc, and if they are concerned they can order a blood test called anti-factor Xa (the X is pronounced 10).  it measures the heparin level in your blood (it should roughly correspond to your dose so 20mg should give you about 20 units anti-factor Xa in your blood, and 40mg should give you 40 units etc)- your GP should be able to order it from your local hospital - or else there is TDL (but it has to be done an exact time after your daily clex shot and has to be tested immediately (not posted)- I think its 3 hours but it might vary depending on your hospital - but everyone I know who had it done came back normal even when they had nosebleeds etc.  I don't think the odd small bruise that you can't remember getting is likely to be any big deal, but if you are concerned or you get a lot of bruising or something, you should speak to your GP.


----------



## sarahh

Dolly rage - I gave up work 1st time round & cycle afterwards got my magic BFP, I think stress @ work is just an additional factor against tx working. As for Dr G he is better when u get 2 know him, I felt the same when I had my 1st cycle, I'm afraid u hav 2 learn 2 b persistent & make yr views clear, he will listen 2 u. At first I had no idea how 2 take him but he really is lovely & caring. 

Sarah x


----------



## ells

Thanks Agate    thought it would be okay but just wanted to double check.

Ells


----------



## SaffronXXX

Sarah - good luck for the baseline scan and blood on Fri X

Dolly Rage - Yup, "a complete head fcuk" is a pretty accurate way of describing 2ww!! Good to hear that your hidden C test came back neg. It's one step a time isn't it? And yes, I had to call Akvil in panic about how much menstrul blood they actually need and she said just a few drops! Your plan to have a break and get healthy and feel good about yourself  for a couple of months sounds good. Since our cancelled FET in March I have been trying to look after myself a bit more. I even bought a treadmill and started running! Sun is out and summer is here so it's a good time to "heal" and prepare yourself for another cycle, which is such a positive thing to do  RE adding  personal  info, how about try going to "Account setting"' (I think!) and see if you can put your brief history on your "signatre"? It shoud come up at the end of each post you submit and might be a help to others who are reading your posts later on  And yes, I found Dr G v difficult to follow too so don't worry you are not alone! Thankfully, I have been asking a lot of questions on here to clarify things so I don't feel as muddled as I was initially but yes, it can be very frustrating at times.  Like agate said, she and a few other knowlegeable ladies have been filling the shoes of the ''support nurses''! I think Dr G is aware that FF does a lot for the clinic/Dr G too becasue at the end of our first consultation he just said, Ïf you want more information, just ask people on FF." A bit cheeky I thought! but it really does look like he is very very busy and unable to give full attention to some of us at times.  I also agree with agate that FGA could do with an information booklets/leaflets like other clinics. At least then the ladies who see him would have a bit more of an idea prior to consultations and know what to expect.

pigloo& mousky - I went to 2 chemists for meds quotes today too. I thought they'd be a lot more expensive so I was quite relieved! 

A highst chemist Quoted;
60 GBP for 25mg pred x 8 wks
45 GBP for Clex 20mg  x 10 days
60 GBP for Clex 40mg  x 3 wks
Total cost; 165 GBP

ASDA pharmacy Quoted;
30 GBP for pred
30.20 for 20mg clex
84.76 GBP for 40mg clex
Total cost; 124.96 GBP

Mouslky - aspirin is dead cheap here. 100 75mg aspirin was 99p from a normal chemist! Incidentally, ASDA quoted 102 GBP for ILs.  I am still waiting on GCRM to get back to me on their quote for ILs & them administering it on day 8 for me but got everything else ordered from ASDA. They were so so helpful. With their "no profit on IVF prescription" policy, they said that this px is charged at the wholesale price and they make no profit on it at all. Pretty good, I thought. Oh and I never realised clex doens't have to be stored in fridge. That's handy!

agate & ells - hope you two and your bumps are keeing ok in this heat X

Hi to everyone else. Sorry if I missed out anyone.


----------



## agate

Saffron: that doesn't sound like the right price for ILs? Its normally about £20 with [email protected] but the nursing (&admin) costs are huge which means it ends up at about £285 with them... unless you are saying that ASDA can administer it for £102 - that would be a bargain!



SaffronXXX said:


> a few other knowlegeable ladies have been filling the shoes of the ''support nurses''! I think Dr G is aware that FF does a lot for the clinic/Dr G too becasue at the end of our first consultation he just said, Ïf you want more information, just ask people on FF." A bit cheeky I thought! but it really does look like he is very very busy and unable to give full attention to some of us at times. I also agree with agate that FGA could do with an information booklets/leaflets like other clinics. At least then the ladies who see him would have a bit more of an idea prior to consultations and know what to expect.


A while back I kept thinking I could offer to write a few leaflets in exchange for the odd free consult (all the stuff seems to be in my head anyway so it wouldn't be that hard to flick it down onto paper) - but he doesn't have any idea that I spend all this time on here - I wasn't even sure he knew much about what we got up to on FF (am sure he doesn't have the time to read it himself)- and the one time I was thinking I would suggest it to him, I got too embarrassed to bring it up.

I do think he spreads himself too thin some days (and that's when ladies don't get his undivided attention during consults), but then I am so grateful that he has taken my calls in emergencies even late on a friday night when I was calling from the useless local A&E and was in a real state.


----------



## SaffronXXX

agate - mmm yes the pharmacist definately said 102 GBP. (I double checked the price with her at the end so I am pretty sure about this) Gosh, 20 for ILs! I am v interested to see what cost my IVF clinic will come up with!

Funny I was thinking that you could be working for him properly too! I am sure he can do with someone like you to give more official support to ladies like us. I guess you would be v busy with your bambino pretty soon anyway but I would say you should defo ask him  about it as we all found your help very valuable. 

Shopping online for calcium 500 mg with Vit D, Vit B6 and Vit B12... I heard that I can take 20mg vit B6 and 50mcg vit B12 during IVF with immune tx but I am finding it hard find 20mg Vit B6. There seem to be 50mg tablets though. I used to take 50mg but not sure it's too high for IVF cycle? Has anyone have any idea?

  
X


----------



## agate

SaffronXXX said:
 

> I guess you would be v busy with your bambino pretty soon anyway


I've been told that babies do sleep sometimes!

are you MTHFR ****? Dr B's book says 50mg B6, 1000 mcg B12 and 4.4mg folic acid for **** (roughly - it doesn't need to be exact).

The doses he suggests for MTHFR hetero are half that (Dr G told me that I didn't need any more than was in pregnacare)

Have you taken into account what is already in your pregnancy multivits (pregnacare, tommys etc) - there is probably something like 10mg of B6 in those already.

You can buy 10mg B6 from healthydirect.com, chemistdirect.com or boots.com

If anyone is looking for omega 3, chemistdirect is doing Nutrasea (apple flavour +vit D) caps which work out about half the price of eskimo (per mg of EPA) and are a good premium brand - so I decided to stock up on those (although their delivery is v slow). Asda have some spectacularly cheap 400mg calcium and vit D cap (brand is 'nutrasave') so I stocked up on those - but I will have to let you know what my insides think about them as I have been buying the pricy calasorb up until now, but my guts don't seem quite so annoyed as they were a while back so I am ready to chance it.


----------



## SaffronXXX

Yes, babies like to sleep when you are up and be awake when you are fast asleep! What joy  hehehe

I am MTHFR hetero so that's half the dose for me then. Oh and yes, I do take pregnacare too. Thank you very much for the info. Right I will order them right now! It feels good to get all these supplements and meds ready  

Sounds like you got a really good bargain at ASDA. Hope their C tablets are ok and don't upset your tummy. I didn't take extra calcium when I was pg with my DD but I wish I had. I had 3 of my back teeth taken out following the birth of her and the dentist said that it's probably becasue all the calcium went to my bebe! Sadly it happens to a lot of mums and I don't know why they don't tell you to take  c tablets during pg routinely! 

SX


----------



## sunrise69

Hi Girls,
yesterday I saw Dr. Gorgy and have my Chicago tests done . It was so so much expensive but hopely I did the best thing to do. I need some answer about my negative results and maybe he will give me. Hopely everything goes well.
As we used donated embryos I went alone so next Monday I have to sent my Dh's blood for DQ alpha and LAD. He said it is also important with donation.
Maybe I'll need also a biopsy for uterine nk so unfortunately I have to fly again. 
I woke up at 4am and go to bed at 12pm! So happy to see Dr. Gorgy, very sad to be in a so lovely city and have no time and money to stay some days there. A one day trip is very stressful, I take the car to go to the airport, plane, train, underground.
Now I have to arrange the shipment of blood by Ups. 

Monica


----------



## Zeka

Hello everyone!
Thumbelina -fab news re you hcg test. Must be so nice to get strong numbers. Bet you're like a cheshire cat! Enjoy your time!!!! 
Ells - glad to hear you are doing well hun!
Ratsy - hi hi! 
Agate - I'm curious whether you're now able to enjoy your pg or does the worrying continue to the later stages too? Hope one day to get there too! Soon! ;-)
Fi - howre you my lovely? Will give you a tink when back from holiday. 
Hello everyone else!
Zeka x


----------



## mwb

Good evening!

Got our results faxed by Akbil today and hope its ok posting them here. Not qualified at all to interpret the results but a TNF-a of 40.2 makes me quite worried.

*Leucocyte Antibody Detection*
Flowcytometry	negative
[T-cells] IgM+	2.4%
[T-cells] IgG+	8.0%
[B-cells] IgM+	18.4%
[B-cells] IgG+	71.6%

*NK Assay (% Killed) Panel*
50:1 *8.5%	10-40
25:1 5.5%	5-30
12.5:1 *2.6%	3-20
IgG conc 12.5 50:1**	7.3%
IgG conc 12.5 25:1**	2.8%
IgG conc 6.25 50:1**	4.5%
IgG conc 6.25 50:1**	3.9%
% CD3 81.7%	60-85
% CD19 6.9%	2-12
% CD56 7.6%	2-12
% of CD19+ cells.CD5+	7.2%	5-10

*NK assay w/ Intralipid*
50:1 w/ Intralipid 1.5 mg/ml	15.9%
25:1 w/ Intralipid 1.5 mg/ml	9.0%

*TH1:TH2 intracellular cytokine ratios*
TNF-a:IL-10 (CD3+CD4+)	*42.2	13.2-30.6
TNF-g:IL-10 (CD3+CD4+)	16.1	5.8-20.5

*DQ Alpha Geneotype*
DP 0501, 0501 = 4.1, 4.1
Me 0102, 0505 = 1.2, 4.1

*MTHFR C677T Mutation Detection*
MTHFR Mutation Detection	Normal

*Prothrombin Gene Analysis*
Prothrombin Gene Mutation	Normal

*Factor V Leiden*
Factor V G1691A mutation	Normal

*Quantiferon-TB Gold test* Negative

*Menstrual tissue*
Ureaplasma, Mycoplasma, Chlamydia	Negative

*Microbiology  - High vaginal Swab*
Epithelial cells +
Culture 1) ++ Mixed anaerobes

Sensitive to Metronidazole
2) ++ mixed skin flora
Mycoplasma/ Ureaplasma	+ ureaplasma urealyticum

*Microbiology - Semen culture*
Culture Scanty mixed skin flora


----------



## mwb

Sorry for the looong post!!


----------



## agate

well, its definitely not all bad news... my GUESSES for you

*Leucocyte Antibody Detection*
Flowcytometry	negative
[T-cells] IgM+	2.4%
[T-cells] IgG+	8.0%
[B-cells] IgM+	18.4%
[B-cells] IgG+	71.6% - although you are below 30% on the average of the 4 results (so have an overall negative), your B cells IgG response is excellent - so LIT may not be necessary for you - worth checking with Dr T in Athens. Some ladies are going out on 29 July so you could ask them to check for you - post on LIT needed thread - see LIT FAQ.

*NK Assay (% Killed) Panel*
50:1 *8.5%	10-40 - for fertility, this is fine.
25:1 5.5%	5-30
12.5:1 *2.6%	3-20
IgG conc 12.5 50:1**	7.3%
IgG conc 12.5 25:1**	2.8%
IgG conc 6.25 50:1**	4.5%
IgG conc 6.25 50:1**	3.9%
% CD3 81.7%	60-85
% CD19 6.9%	2-12
% CD56 7.6%	2-12
% of CD19+ cells.CD5+	7.2%	5-10 - all of these are fine.

*NK assay w/ Intralipid*
50:1 w/ Intralipid 1.5 mg/ml	15.9% - intralipid doesn't seem to suppress your NKa, at least, not in a test tube - but you really don't need it suppressed as your NKa is already pretty low and your numbers of NKs in your blood are normal.
25:1 w/ Intralipid 1.5 mg/ml	9.0%

*TH1:TH2 intracellular cytokine ratios*
TNF-a:IL-10 (CD3+CD4+)	*42.2	13.2-30.6 - this is a bit high - and the fact that your NK isn't makes me GUESS that your elevated TNFa is coming from something other than NKa - maybe you have joint inflammation or bowel irritation or something like that?
TNF-g:IL-10 (CD3+CD4+)	16.1	5.8-20.5

*DQ Alpha Geneotype*
DP 0501, 0501 = 4.1, 4.1
Me 0102, 0505 = 1.2, 4.1 - so roughly half the embryos you make (without resorting to donor) will be 4.1,4.1 and half will be 1.2,4.1 - which is a match for you - its good that your NKa isn't elevated though, and that your LAD is pretty good - but I would GUESS that you'd want to retest your NKa in early pg to make sure it doesn't rise then - and if so, treat with IVIG or ILs drips.

*MTHFR C677T Mutation Detection*
MTHFR Mutation Detection	Normal

*Prothrombin Gene Analysis*
Prothrombin Gene Mutation	Normal

*Factor V Leiden*
Factor V G1691A mutation	Normal

*Quantiferon-TB Gold test* Negative

*Menstrual tissue*
Ureaplasma, Mycoplasma, Chlamydia	Negative

*Microbiology  - High vaginal Swab*
Epithelial cells +
Culture 1) ++ Mixed anaerobes

Sensitive to Metronidazole
2) ++ mixed skin flora
Mycoplasma/ Ureaplasma	+ ureaplasma urealyticum - I presume this means you got a positive for ureaplasma - I THINK Dr G will prescribe you a short course of doxycycline for this.
*Microbiology - Semen culture*
Culture Scanty mixed skin flora

I THINK Dr G will probably suggest a short course of doxycycline for the ureaplasma and then 2 shots of humira 2 weeks apart, then an cytokine retest to check your TNFa has come down before you cycle. You would need a TB test before you take humira (and MAYBE Dr G will ask you to ask your GP for a CBC (complete blood count - just to check that your white cells are ok... only if he is concerned about your slightly low NKa).
I THINK you should ask Dr T (athens) for an opinion about whether you would benefit from LIT - because your LAD is really not bad, but you do have a significant match with your DH - Dr T has more experience with LIT than Dr G.
I am assuming that Dr G wouldn't want to give you IVIG/ILs/prednisolone/clexane, providing your TNFa comes down with humira - but I guess he will want to wait until he sees your cytokine retest before he makes that decision.

Overall, MY IMPRESSION is that those are unusual results, but not particularly bad ones - because you have an elevated TNFa without elevated NKa and because you have a fairly significant DQa match but not a bad LAD.

hope this helps.


----------



## sarita36

Blimey this is an active thread! Just wanted to say thanks so much to Agate for your info on Dr G and how he works - very very helpful thanks for taking the time to reply.


Love and    to everyone else xx


----------



## mwb

Agate, thank you so so much for the interpret to understandable English. So impressed by your knowledge!

About the high TNF-a, it sure could be a bowel inflammation or something I guess, as I have pain in the lower abdomen. Dr G wants me to have it checked.

About the good LAD, I had an abortion 20 years ago (with a different partner). I´m thinking, could this affect the LAD result? That it is raised from back then?? Or am I getting it all wrong?


----------



## Dolly Rage

Just a quickie from me too to say a big thanks to you all for your welcome and words of wisdom. Am feeling so much more postive about everything and that's down to you guys.


----------



## agate

mwb said:


> About the high TNF-a, it sure could be a bowel inflammation or something I guess, as I have pain in the lower abdomen. Dr G wants me to have it checked.
> 
> About the good LAD, I had an abortion 20 years ago (with a different partner). I´m thinking, could this affect the LAD result? That it is raised from back then?? Or am I getting it all wrong?


all the bowel diseases like IBS, crohn's, ulcerative colitis, coeliac can cause high TNFa due to irritation of the gut. good thing to get it checked out - if they can fix it your TNFa will come down without expensive drugs - and if they can't fix it maybe they will give you humira on the NHS for your gut (humira was developed as a drug for bowel and joint inflammation - not fertility).

Yes, previous pg with anyone could give you a reasonable LAD (and therefore be helpful for getting pg now with your DH)- but it could be you are just quite good at making LAD antibodies - 'normal' ladies are - its 'normal' to have a good LAD if you've ever been pg before, but the population of ladies who have repeat failure or repeat miscarriage tend to have lower LAD than 'normal' ladies - presumably because we are not as good as we should be at making antibodies... and that is what LIT is supposed to help correct.


----------



## Mousky

Saffron - many thanks for the quote. The ILs price looks fab (is this only the drip or with administration cost as well? I'm confused now   )! DH is going to London as soon as we're back to Europe so I think I'm just gonna order everything in the UK. I'll try to arrange my px with Dr G. I hope Akvile can split the px    How does it work with ASDA? Can you just go there and buy it or is it a home delivery thing?


Hi everyone!


----------



## agate

Asda is a national supermarket chain. many branches of it have a pharmacy inside (they have a website where you can check which branches are near to where you will be and which have a pharmacy).  I don't THINK they do home delivery - but if its a slightly unusual drug or you need a lot of something, you might have to phone them and ask them to order it in for you, or you might have to wait a couple of days for them to get it in stock for you.  They did a bit of a publicity stunt thing recently where they said that they will do fertility prescription drugs for cost price - but its a bit of a mystery as to how they decide whether something is for fertility or not... they don't seem to do any special deals like that once you are pg.

I'm sure that can't be the right price for ILs - its too high to be just the drug (the cost price for ILs - not including the saline for dilution, cannula etc - is only £7.05) and I'd be staggered if ASDA have nurses to give you the drip.


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## Mousky

It sounds too good to be true


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## Newday

is Adsa doing intralipids at your home? have I misunderstood all this? Can't find any info?
dawn


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## agate

No... I don't think they are.  I think its a misunderstanding.


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## SaffronXXX

Just to clarify... The 102 BGP quote ASDA game me is just for the drug. You'd have to organise a nurse to administer this. I'll check the price again when I go to pick up pred and clex this week though. 

Mousky - ASDA said that pred and clex can be ordered and be ready the next day or the day after. I guess it also depends on which branch you go to but I thought it's not too bad. It looks like it's the same with Normnal high st chemists anyway and you'd have to order them and wait for a day or two for meds to be ready for collection.


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## Mousky

Thanks, Saffron    I think they're a bit cheaper than [email protected] so I might be getting steroids/clexane/aspirin with them. I'll probably get Humira/Ils with [email protected]


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## Pigloo

Mousky - did you manage to get your px split??

Dr G already wrote my px but I don't see what harm it would do for him to just write me a px for ILs he was trying to tell me [email protected] were cheapest..how would he know!!! 

P x


----------



## ratsy

Hi Ladies 

Zeka hi lovely long time no hear   

Girls can i ask a question i started af on saturday morning and im still bleeding its going from soz tmi from brown old blood to red blood this is a long time for me i started the con pill on saturday as im doing short protocol could this be anything to do with it or the drugs ive been taking 

Thanks girls appreciate any advise 

Ratsy x


----------



## Peanuts

hi girls

Sorry I've been AWOL, DH bought a new laptop and its taken ages to set up and get back on the net!  

Thumbelina - congratulations hun, so pleased for you     .  Sounds like twinnies to me  .  Can't believe your MIL   , had a similar thing with mine, where she's told a few of her friends, not even family!  Have told her off and that she's not allowed to tell anyone else until 12 wk scan!  Big hugs petal   

Agate - how you doing hun?    Hope you and bubba are keeping ok    

Sorry girls, has taken me so long to catch up on all the posts, need to head to bed as have a really early morning tomorrow.  Hopefully catch up properly over the weekend

Big hugs to you all  
Dxx


----------



## agate

Hi peanuts!

Ratsy: don't know but maybe its because starting the pill is already slowing down the shedding of your lining for this AF.  I don't THINK this will be a problem as you will shed the lining when you stop the pill - but if you are worried, you could double check with your clinic.


----------



## DND

Hi ladies. Are you celebrating Midsummer? It is a big holiday here in Sweden but I am staying at home today because of my grass pollen allergy. :-( We have our LIT treatment by dr G at 8 th of July (it can be changed if some organtransplatation bee prioritated) and I am afraid to take any medication. How do you do with you allergies? Do you take your medication during the LIT? What about paracetamol, inhalators and eye drops? 
Do allergies influence LIT negatively?

MWB - very good LAD. Nice!   I hope that dr G can find the source of your high TNF-alfa. 

Thumbelina - good luck for your Hcg. 

Berry55-how do you feel after your LIT?

Ratsy-I hope that you are better now.

Agate a big hello to you.

*Wink** wink* to all ladies.


----------



## Mousky

DND - I'm also suffering with allergy but I decided not to take anything because of LIT (I had aspirin for my headache, though). It's not too bad, just annoying. I hope you can enjoy your holiday regardless   


Pigloo - I haven't spoken to Dr G yet. I hope I can get 2 px. One for [email protected] (Humira/ILs) and steroids/clexane for probably ASDA. btw, I assume no pharmacy in the UK will take a copy or a fax?    


Peanuts -    there.


ratsy - I've had this before and it didn't interfere with tx   When do you start?   


Hi everyone!


----------



## Pigloo

Mousky - I managed to get Sainsbury's pharmacy to accept fax, I think it just depends on the pharmacist you speak to.

AFM - Well AF here, so I will be starting D/R TODAY!!!!! 

P x


----------



## Mousky

Everything crossed for you, Pigloo!


----------



## Pigloo

Thanks Mousky


----------



## Zeka

Good luck Pigloo!


----------



## ells

Lots of luck for this cycle Pigloo!

Hi to everyone else   .

Ells


----------



## Pigloo

Gee thanks girls...mwah.........


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies 

DND - Im feeling alot better thanks ive never been so ill like that before dp said i looked really rough thanks for asking - hope your hayfever dont affect you too much i sure with it aswel i just suffered to be honest it was fine in athens as not much grass and fields it was a relief actually 

Pigloo- goodluck lovely for this cycle this will be the one 

Agate - I think your right about the pill slowing lining down ive still got af its really wierd its hardly anything its there when i wipe but getting a little worried that when i stop the pill i wont get proper AF   

Its quiet on here tonight hope you lovely girls are enjoying the weather and all have a fab weeklend   

R    xxx


----------



## Pigloo

Hi Girls

I need some advice, I have been given some 0,5ml syringes to inject with but they have screw on needles and I am not confident i am getting the correct dose when I am loading them.  I have however, got loads of spare 50iu needles off my last tx with the needles fixed. Can i use them i.e is 50IU the same as 0,5ml

Thanks girls (done my first jab but not confident i got the full 0,5ml   

P xx


----------



## agate

Ratsy: when you stop the pill, whatever lining you have at the point, will come away - that is all that needs to happen - it may be thinner than usual but that's ok.  I guess your clinic will double check anyway when they give you your baseline scan.

Pigloo: 50iu may be the same as 0.5ml but it may not be.  it depends what the syringes were designed for, the concentration of the old drug and new drug etc - you do need to check with your clinic.


----------



## Desi

Dear Ladies,

You have been all very busy, it took me ages to catch up.
Have been very busy lately unfortunately.
So wonderful to read the good news of Thumbelina, congratulations my dear!!!
Well done, I am so pleasantly surprised about all the BFP's on here!!

Agate, time flies for you, only 40 days left, wow.

My EC will probably be Tuesday and ET on Thursday.
So far the result has been disappointing with only 2 good size follicles and 1 very small one developing.
I had hoped for better results with the great FSH of 5,6 I had......
I know you only need 1 good one in the end, but it would be so nice to have a bit more luck and chances.

Does anybody know if Dr. G is going away for Summer holidays, apart from the couple of days soon?

Night, night ladies, enjoy the Summer!!!!!!

Desi.
Xx


----------



## deegirl

Hi girls - I haven't been on in ages as things really busy at work etc but I'm off on hols soon (from next Wed) so going to try and cycle with Dr G mid August.  AFM my LAD results are great my B cells went up from 3 to 99.1 so pleased with that.  I had one paternal and one donor in Athens.  I should have had 2 paternal's but had to have donor for personal reasons.  I may need to take humira also but waiting for TNF retest (Dr G said LIT might bring TNF of 31 down sufficiently).  However I'm going to raise with Dr G the fact that Dr Beer always gave his endometriosis patients humira.  Anybody any views on this?

Agate - I'm getting so excited for you, things are so close now!!!!  How have you been?  I see you are still helping people by offering great advice as always, you are so kind    I bet everyone is beginning to panic at the thought of your absence when baby comes along.   

Desi - I know Dr G is away from 5-15th Aug approx.  All the best for your EC and ET.

Ratsy - Glad you are feeling a lot better.   

Peanuts - BIG congratulations, it's great to read of your news, so many positives lately.  Very encouraging!

Hi to everyone else.

Dee x


----------



## Mousky

Dee - so great to hear about your LAD results    I'm really interested in finding out if LIT helps bringing down TNF-a levels. Dr G told me to take it, but I only have 31.9!    Any particular reason why Dr G thinks LIT might bring your levels down?  I'm also wondering if anyone cycled with this level and got pg    I'm not so into taking Humira right now, but also I don't want to do the wrong thing    I don't have endo, btw.


Desi - I have everything crossed for you (as well)      I hope it works for you


----------



## deegirl

Mousky - I'm not sure why LIT is supposed to bring TNF levels down, Dr G doesn't really explain things that well, I guess we just have to trust that he's the expert   , however I'm sure Agate might know the answer.    Your levels don't seem high either and like you I'm reluctant to take humira unless it's really necessary.  If you ask Dr G to retest you after LIT I've no doubt he'll be with you on that.  x


----------



## Mousky

Dee - Dr T and Dr Montouvalos (the senior doctor Dr T works with   ) indicated that LIT could help bringing TNF levels down. But also he didn't think I shouldn't take Humira. He just said they couldn't be 100% sure it was safe which I understand. I have a consult with Dr Sher and I'm planning to ask him the same thing, although I think he never prescribes Humira    I'm wondering if he thinks only ILs would be enough. I will then talk to Dr G and make a decision


----------



## agate

deegirl said:


> I may need to take humira also but waiting for TNF retest (Dr G said LIT might bring TNF of 31 down sufficiently). However I'm going to raise with Dr G the fact that Dr Beer always gave his endometriosis patients humira. Anybody any views on this?
> 
> Agate - I'm getting so excited for you, things are so close now!!!! How have you been? I see you are still helping people by offering great advice as always, you are so kind  I bet everyone is beginning to panic at the thought of your absence when baby comes along.
> 
> Desi - I know Dr G is away from 5-15th Aug approx. All the best for your EC and ET.
> 
> Ratsy - Glad you are feeling a lot better.
> 
> Peanuts - BIG congratulations, it's great to read of your news, so many positives lately. Very encouraging!
> 
> Hi to everyone else.
> 
> Dee x


Dee: sorry I don't really have a view on the humira/endometriosis issue - but my GUESS would be to be guided by your TNFa results - humira works by locking up TNFa (whatever the source, whether its joint inflammation, inflammation from endometriosis, bowel irritation or whether its part of the signalling to blood NKs or uNKs). So if your uNKs are under control and your TNFa is no longer elevated... its not obvious to me why humira would help... but will be very interested to hear what Dr G says and what his reasoning is.

Mousky: my understanding of why LIT may bring both NKa and TNFa is, particularly if the elevation is caused by your body being sensitised to previous failed implanations (due to its lack of blocking antibodies, and therefore perception of any embryonic tissue as a threat), increasing the level of blocking antibodies may reverse this.

I THINK that Dr Mantouvalos is the doctor who owns and runs the fertility clinic where Dr T provides just the LIT once a fortnight. Dr T is an immunologist rather than a fertility doc, so I believe the rest of the time he is mainly dealing with very poorly people in hospitals in athens. Having seen several forum posts by Dr Sher on his forum I am 100% sure he will insist you should not have humira. He ONLY prescribes ILs (plus steroids&clex - IVIG now very rarely). He seems to say quite regularly that ILs plus steroids are always enough for all immune issues so long as there isn't a DQa match (he calls that an 'alloimmune problem')... but that if there is an alloimmune problem that doesn't respond to ILs (plus steroids), the only option is surrogacy.... he also strongly advocates SET if there is a DQa match.

As far as I know there is no evidence that humira isn't safe (for the baby to be), but there isn't much evidence yet that it is safe either. That said, ARGC and Beer centre prescribe it a lot, and obviously Dr G does.


----------



## Peanuts

Hi girls

Deegirl - welcome back to the thread hun, and hope your looking forward to your hols!  I had a TNFa of 34 originally and wasn't able to take Humira.  DrG said the IL's should bring them down.  However ended up going up to 45 after 2 lots of IL, but I did get prgnant with that, so depends on what else is going on.  DrG then recommended IVIG after HB scan to work on my NK's rather than worrying on my TNFa's.  Its all so complicated!!    Well done on your LAD, thats fab news, mine only wnet up from 3 to 31, so 99 is a great rise!   

Mousky - as I said above, I managed to get a BFP with a TNFa of 34 or 45 depending when impantation happened I suppose, so it can happen  .  Good luck with consult with DrSher, hope he's able to give you some good advice   

Pigloo - how's the d/r going hun?  Wishing you lots of luck with your treatment       

Desi - good luck for youe EC on Tuesday hun      You said it already, it only takes one wee embie to make your dreams come true, keep your chin up hun     

AFM - still have no prg symptoms apart from being really tired, so keep convincing myself I've been dreaming it all.  Might have to book a wee reassurrance scan before my 12 week scan is due to give me some peace of mind   

Hope you're all enjoying the sunshine and tennis!
Big hugs   
Dxx


----------



## fi7

Hi all

just wanted to pop on and say hi

ells - great news
peanuts - i am so excited for you, keep calm and keep going.
Agate, - are you ready, how exciting.

and a big hi to all the other ladies   

afm - well just keeping a low profile and popping the Ab's for the dreaded c. not really sure what next but in some ways enjoying the time off.

big hugs

fi


----------



## ratsy

Hi Ladies 

Deegirl - thanks feeling alot better now dp thinks hes got it now hes not happy with me he said i was breathing on him   

Girls just some info for you if anybodys interested i went to asda today to price some drugs this is the list she gave me back from my px 

Gestone - 50mg 
100mgdaily = 2amps per day 
2 weeks =28amps 
= £151.20

cyclogest -400mg pessaries 
1 daily for 3 weeks =21
= £17,44

Prednisolone 25mg tablets daily 
4 weeks = 28 tablets 
=£18.

Total = £169.20 

Im so pleased with that i think i might just go with asda as it saves me faxing off px and waiting in for delivery she said it should be in store day after i order it ,Hope this helps 

R    xxx


----------



## agate

asda have gone on record saying that they guarantee to sell all fertility meds at cost price (publicity stunt thing).


----------



## Mousky

Peanuts - that's very inspiring about your TNF-a levels and your pregnancy. Btw, I hope you start feeling pg soon as it might help you feel more confident   


Agate - I had IVF almost a year ago and I don't think there was another embryo trying to implant since then    so would I still have elevated levels? Probably not? btw, Dr Mantovalous is quite nice    He started smoking while  they were discussing "our case" in Greek, it was hilarious    And, yes, I sort of have an idea of what Dr Sher is going to suggest. I have a few doubts re steroids because of my PCOS but I just think I need to take something! In theory, I shouldn't take ILs either because of the eggs and soy    but I need to. I feel quite stupid because there's always something but the alternative might be never having a baby   



btw, I don't really think Humira should be risky - I can imagine it must be annoying for the ladies who took it and now are reading my posts    - it's just that I don't want to take another thing when my TNF-a levels aren't sky high. I would not blink if I had a 40 something but 31.9?   


ratsy - I'll try my cons first but I doubt it'll work so it looks like I'll be buying at ASDA as well. I'm wondering if they would have 5mg tablets. Certainly! btw, why will you be taking gestone and cyclogest? Dr G recommend extra progesterone but he didn't specify anything yet. Glad to know you're feeling better   


Hi everyone!


----------



## Clarebaby

Hi

Trying to decide whether to try and squeeze in a hysteroscopy before I next cycle - Dr G said it would be 'preferable', my new IVF clinic thinks it would be a good idea, but my NHS Doctor who I last cycled with says its not necessary as I've had lots of scans and if anything was there that needed investigating they would have found it.

It's a lot of money and another unpleasant procedure to have if I don't really need it - any advice?

Thanks


----------



## agate

Mousky said:


> I have a few doubts re steroids because of my PCOS but I just think I need to take something! In theory, I shouldn't take ILs either because of the eggs and soy  but I need to.


Can you explain that bit to me?
A lot of docs recommend steroids for PCOS (and there have been a couple studies suggesting an improvement for egg quality on steroids) - on the basis that they MAY reduce the masculinising hormones that come with PCOS.
Are you actually allergic to eggs or soya (or peanut)? that's the only contraindication for ILs. But if you are, I don't THINK its actually possible to take it (unless you could switch to an egg free or peanut free brand - but they all contain soya oil I THINK).


----------



## vw22

Clarebaby, Just saw your post. I am currently thinking about the same thing...but I was considering Penny at Serum only because she does something quite different it seems to uk doctors. As I am in the 'healing period' after the D and C i thought I may as well have it so I am all 'spring cleaned' for whatever next. Will be interested to see what you decide. vx


----------



## Mousky

Agate - I'm a bit worried about insulin levels and steroids. In all fairness, I never had that more specific insulin resistance test. So I can't say if it's really my case. But almost my entire family is diabetic and my sister also has PCOS. It wouldn't really be a surprise if I would have problems as well. Also, I worry about the impact it could have on my adrenal glands. In February, I was diagnosed with severe adrenal fatigue. The doctor wanted me to take DHEA+pregnenolone but I thought it was too much and decided to stick to supplements and diet. So, maybe prednisolone will help but isn't there a risk it could supress my adrenal hormone production as well? 
re ILs, I'm not allergic to eggs in a way it will kill me if I have it but it was evident (from the blood tests) that it works as some sort of antigen, triggering an inflammatory reaction. I'm not sure how different it would be if I have ILs   


Clare and vw - I thought about having hysto in Greece but ended up deciding against it because at that point, it seemed too much. That said, if FET doesn't work, I'm going to do it. btw, I really don't think scans will show the same as a hysto


----------



## woodwitch

Hi all,

I agree with Mousky that scans are not likely to reveal what a hysto will reveal - my scans have always been normal - my lining looked good every time. But when I had the hysto and it revealed multiple polyps and dense scarring - it became apparent that it was not actually the lining that they were measuring each time - it must have been scar tissue   

Woody


----------



## agate

Mousky said:


> Agate - I'm a bit worried about insulin levels and steroids. In all fairness, I never had that more specific insulin resistance test. So I can't say if it's really my case. But almost my entire family is diabetic and my sister also has PCOS. It wouldn't really be a surprise if I would have problems as well. Also, I worry about the impact it could have on my adrenal glands. In February, I was diagnosed with severe adrenal fatigue. The doctor wanted me to take DHEA+pregnenolone but I thought it was too much and decided to stick to supplements and diet. So, maybe prednisolone will help but isn't there a risk it could supress my adrenal hormone production as well?
> re ILs, I'm not allergic to eggs in a way it will kill me if I have it but it was evident (from the blood tests) that it works as some sort of antigen, triggering an inflammatory reaction. I'm not sure how different it would be if I have ILs


maybe you should think about self-monitoring your blood glucose levels? If you did it for, 2-4 times a day for a week, then I THINK that would give you a good idea about whether your are pre-diabetic or not. not sure about where you are, but here its v simple to buy a blood glucose monitor (and they are not expensive). Presumably you will be on metformin - that is supposed to increase your chances of getting and staying pg if you have pcos - from my (limited) experience though, without checking your blood sugar levels its not easy to tell whether the dose you are on is appropriate or not. Bear in mind that with PCOS and a diabetic family history you are at high risk of getting gestational diabetes in pg, whether or not you take steroids, so someone will need to be monitoring your blood sugar in your 2nd and 3rd trimester (not just urine) when you get pg.

adrenal fatigue whilst you are on steroids is very unlikely - as steroids supplement your cortisol - but it is definitely a possibility when you come off steroids, as your body MAY struggle to start producing its own adrenal hormones again if you have that tendency - I GUESS you will need to think about tapering off them more slowly than other ladies when you get to 12 weeks pg to give your body more time to adapt (going down from the high to medium dose isn't hard, its getting from medium to low and from low to nothing that gets harder).

can you eat eggs without triggering an allergic reaction you are aware of? Before its diluted, ILs contains 1.2% egg yolk, so it must be a very tiny amount in the drip solution - but if you are actually allergic to eggs, I'm pretty sure you are not supposed to have it all - have you discussed this with Dr G?


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies 

Can anyone give me some advise on best things to do while on stimms please 

As in am i supposed to drink milk / water i dont like milk so will it be ok to have milkshakes i already drink water but im not a big drinker dp always moaning i dont drink enough   

So can anyone advise me what im supposed to be drinking and eating while stimming 

Thanks girls much appreciated hope your all enjoying this glorious weather    

R    xxx


----------



## agate

ratsy: the milk is for 2 reasons - to keep you hydrated and to give you lots of easily digestable protein.  If you want to stick to water that is ok, so long as you are maxing out on something else protein rich like chicken.  If you can face milkshakes you might want to try solgar's whey to go protein powder which you mix up with water or milk - it comes in various flavours and you can get it off the net or from healthfood shops that stock solgar brand.  I tried honey nut which was very sweet and a bit like marzipan and vanilla which a lot less sweet.  There is also mixed berry (and chocolate). It comes in small sachets, small drums and big drums (wouldn't buy a big drum because I'm not sure you'd ever finish one and its pricy stuff).  There are other brands that might be cheaper - but watch out for saturated fat content and artificial sweetners like sodium cyclamate.

other than that, good things to drink are pomegranite juice (watered down), green tea (probably not a lot more than 2 cups per day) and water. 

bad things to drink are anything with caffeine in it, decaff tea and preferably not 'junk' like sugary drinks or squashes, or stuff loaded with artificial nasties.


----------



## Zeka

Ratsy, tesco direct do a really good one in case you are looking for a veggie protien shake (whey to go has bovine protein in it - I found it hard to find ones without cow or soya as the veggie alternative). 
Sorry can't remember the name of the one thru tesco direct but its in a big white drum and has a v good protein content. I had banana flavour which was fine. 
If I was home I'd be happy to post you some as I've got loads of the stuff left! 
Zeka


----------



## ratsy

Hi Agate / zeka 

Thanks for info im going into town next saturday il try in my local health shop / tesco and get the sachets can i have the choc ones as my nks high or should i try a different flavour if i cant have that one il have the berry flavour i love bannana milkshake il look them both up thanks 

Will i put wieght on with protein shakes is this a stupid question   

Thanks 

R x


----------



## agate

you may put weight on if you end up eating more total calories than normal - (you may also get very bloated on Tx anyway, so it can be hard to tell if its flab or bloat) if you have any excess tummy flab to lose - try and get rid of it before Tx because it can increase TNFa.  personally, I'd skip chocolate flavour but its up to you.


----------



## Zeka

Also ratsy, I don't think tesco do the shakes in the stores, just thru tesco direct online. 
Z x


----------



## ann69

Hi ladies,

We I delayed my NHS cycle so that we can have the results from the DQ alpha, LAD swad, hidden C etc. Have delayed by a month at the moment.

Bit worried that someone said Dr G is away from 5th August as that will be when I'm cycling next. Will anyone be covering him, what will happen?

Also doing that menstrual test today - is it literally a few drops that the container needs? and do you send it wrapped in the foil? and also how long do fedex tend to take to collect it?

Ratsy - in my last cycle I was told to drink 2-3 litres of water a day to keep the risk of OHSS down, they didn't say anythign about milk but since coming on here I've heard milk is good to get protein for egg quality - good luck!

Hi to everyone else


----------



## agate

Ann: water and protein together are needed for both egg quality and to reduce the risk of OHSS.

my understanding is that when Dr G is away, Dr Eskander covers things like drips and Px.  for ladies doing cycles with him, I expect he will try to schedule them to avoid his holiday.  for emergency queries that Dr Eskander can't cover, you phone akbil and she contacts him on his holiday.  for everything routine, then obviously you want to try and be set up with the things you know you need before he goes away - your Px's, drip appts etc.

yes, a small sample is ok - but the more you can get, I THINK the more accurate the test will be.  You might want to try things like using a mooncup/instead cup or trying to collect just after you've been lying down for a few hours or wedging it there and jumping up and down (after a lie down) etc - or using a sterilised teaspoon to help get it... if all else fails you can try using a light tampon over night and squeezing it out in the morning (but that MIGHT not be quite as good at getting a tissue sample).  yes, for some reason, ladies do wrap the container in foil.  So long as you can get enough sample, don't worry about it being exactly day 2 of your cycle... and you can keep it in the fridge until fedex come.


----------



## ratsy

Hi anna 

Thanks im going to start drinking alot more   

Fedex will come same day to collect it i phoned the night before but i think they come if you ring early enough in the morning you can track it aswel so you know it gets there 

Goodluck hope you get a negative 

R x


----------



## sarahh

Hi all, 

Well I started stimms on Friday night so its day 3 of stimms for me today!  Am eating lots of protein / drinking milk like there is no tomorrow!!!  Come on healthy eggs!!!!

Just a quick question (probably for Agate!!) I start 20mg Clexane on Tuesday but I only have 40mg Clexane syringes so do I just inject half?  I can't remember what I did last time!  

Sorry no personals (DD upstairs having tantrum for last 15 mins!!)

Sarah x


----------



## agate

yes, sarah you can do that.  its a bit easier to decide where half is if you inject it into an ordinary syringe though (so you can measure out 0.2ml) - but I guess it doesn't need to be super accurate.


----------



## Mousky

Hey everyone,


Agate - you're a star    Thank you for all the tips. I might look into the shakes you recommended ratsy    I'm not supposed to do dairy so no milk for me and I'm not a fan of water either. However, I'm having FET so no pressure on the eggs   


sarah - wow, stimming already?     


Ann - good luck with your test   


xx


----------



## sunrise69

Clarebaby said:


> Hi
> 
> Trying to decide whether to try and squeeze in a hysteroscopy before I next cycle - Dr G said it would be 'preferable', my new IVF clinic thinks it would be a good idea, but my NHS Doctor who I last cycled with says its not necessary as I've had lots of scans and if anything was there that needed investigating they would have found it.
> 
> It's a lot of money and another unpleasant procedure to have if I don't really need it - any advice?
> 
> Thanks


Hi Clarebaby,
I think it's a very good idea, when I had hysteroscopy 2 little polyps were found but with u/s nobody saw them, so you can be sure that your endometrium is ready for implantation. This is my opinion anyway. Have you ever had it before?

Monica


----------



## agate

Mousky said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Agate - you're a star  Thank you for all the tips. I might look into the shakes you recommended ratsy  I'm not supposed to do dairy so no milk for me and I'm not a fan of water either. However, I'm having FET so no pressure on the eggs
> 
> sarah - wow, stimming already?
> 
> Ann - good luck with your test
> 
> xx


If you are doing no dairy then the solgar ones would be no good - they are made from whey powder. I THINK the other alternatives are to look for brands made of pea or soya protein (but I would be slightly wary of the phytoestrogens - although I would GUESS that the proteins are probably really highly processed to denature any phyto estrogens - but wouldn't be sure. Maybe the answer is egg protein powder - because that is non-dairy and non leguminous - haven't tried it though.


----------



## Cath34

Sarah, wooo hoo, day 3!!! You must be having a scan today are you? Dont worry about the clex, I used to have to do 30 morning and 30 evening all through treatment and pregnancy ( same syringe) and Dr G told me to do that.
Agate- how are you doing? Not long left for you now?


----------



## Mousky

Oh dear! I haven't realized about the dairy    


Cath - how are you? and how's Hari?


btw, any news about Cozy and her boy?


Hi everyone!


----------



## Shim

Hi ladies

have been manic with a new job so haven't managed to get on until now! its taken me some time to catch up on the chat - it's been busy.

Agate, Vaudelin and Saffronxxx - thanks for the advice on vits for DH. good to see a positive result from eating a bit healthier and taking the vits  can i just clarify - do you think he needs to take extra Vit C, Vit e, Zinc, omega 3 and Co-E on top of wellan conception? other than omega 3 - it seems to contain all of these, just note sure if this is sufficient.

Like some of the ladies, hope to be on here a bit more as i cycle in ugust and get  to know you all a bit better!

Can i ask you opinion on something else?

i was tested last year August for my insulin levels and was found to be slightly insulin resistent and put on Metformin. I haven't retested, but have restarted on 2 x metformin tabs a day (stopped after my bfn in dec). do you think i need to get retested to ensure i even need to be taking this? chris and the Beer centre said i don't need to retest as "that's just my body now", but as its been so long, am not so sure. any advice would be great   

also, if anyone was planning on having LIT with Dr G on 8 July, have just been told he is not doing this now.    i am now having to go to athens, lastminute.com stylee. Mission!

Sarahh - just read you are stimming finally - fab news, all the best and    for lots of healthy eggs

Cozy - hope you and bubba are doing well.

Shim x


----------



## deegirl

Mousky - I know you were keen to know whether LIT brings TNFa down.  I got my results today, they are now at 25.1 and before LIT they were 31.1.  However I'm still considering humira as I have endometriosis so I've made an appointment with Dr G on Monday to discuss this.  Dr Beer seemed to give humira to all of his endometriosis patients. Also I read somewhere (think it was a post by Cozy) that she took humira even though her TNFa was ok and she got pregnant!!!  Will wait and see what Dr G says   

Btw girls this is such a silly question I suppose but I noticed on Dr G's headed paper he is known as Mr G.  My DH told me that it could be offensive to call him Dr Gorgy as he's higher than a doc.  I've been calling him Dr G all along!   Anyone else??

Clarebaby - if you're not so keen on getting a hysteroscopy done why not just get SIS done (Saline Infusion Sonography), this is supposed to be pretty accurate at picking up polyps etc.  Dr G has advised that for me before stimming, he didn't even mention a hysteroscopy.  I don't think I would want to put my body through anesthetic before cycle.  

Hi to eveyone else, Agate, Peanuts, Cath, sunrise, Shim and everyone else.

Dee x


----------



## ClaireBuc

Hi , hoping that someone will be able to help.

Had appointment with Dr G last monday to go through treatment with him, i will need clexane, steriods gestone and  It appears that i will need 2 x ivig and at least 2 x lit, however Dr G was very vague as to when i could get this done, i'm on the waiting list for the lit and he didnt discuss when i would have the ivig, any ideas as to when this would be required as I am looking to down reg after august period circa 19th.  Would appreciate any help as it's difficult sorting out everything else when i have no idea when he can get me in, have sent an email to him last week and not received a reply, not sure i want to ring him and risk the £90 fee as i really think this should have been covered and whilst i did ask he avoided it by saying it would be ok if i had gold treatment, not sure what this meant.

Thanks for any help

Claire


----------



## woodwitch

Claire - I rang Akbil earlier to see if my email had arrived and Dr G is on holiday but back on Thursday. Can you tell me about the waiting list please? Do you put yourself down for a certain Thursday or do you just ask for the first one possible? Do you get to know how far  up the list you are?

Thanks 
Woody


----------



## Peanuts

Hi girls

Woodwitch - I think you just get the first one possible - although they don't seem to be very organised at the minute, think there's a few teething problems with the lab.  Good luck    

ClaireBuc - If you need LIT you'll have 2 lots a month apart, so would need to be getting a date soon to squeeze 2 in before August AF.  Or he may let you have them 2 weeks apart.  LIT/IL usually done during stimming probably 1 of each during that time, then another drip on BFP and then when heartbeat is seen on scan.  Hopefully one of the other girls can give you more details, or correct me if I'm wrong!    Best to give Akvil a call to see if he's got your email, he's not great at getting back to emails!  

Deegirl - wow, well down on your TNFa's after LIT - hopeing mine does the same about 3rd lot - just got retests doene today!  Yep, I've been calling him DrG all the time too    Hopefully not offending him!  GOod luck for your chat with him    

Shim - hope your work calms down soon, esp leading up to txt.  Nightmare about having to go to rush to Athens, but hopefully it'll all make the difference    

Cath - great to hear from you hun, hop eyou and wee Hari are keeping alright    

Sarahh - congrats on starting the happy hormones    Hope they're kicking in nicely and growing lots of lovely eggs.  Wishing you lots of luck        

Fi - hoping those AB's are doing the trick hun, but enjoy your time off   .  Hoe you had a nice holiday  

Agate - how you doing hun?  Hope you've got bags packed and things organised - not long to go now     

Big hugs to ratsy, Mousky, sunrise, Ann69, zeka, VW, Donkey, Diane, Berry, Saffa, Saffron, Ells, thumbelina, and anyone I've forgotten    

Take care
Dxx


----------



## ann69

Hi all,
I phoned earlier and had some of my results faxed over - they aren't all back yet but I wondered if someone could try and help me interpret the ones I have please?

LAD:
flowcytometry - negative
T cells IgM - 6.6
T cells IgG - 2.6
B cells IgM - 28.2
B cells IgG - 18.7

Factor II mutation thrombin factor - negative
Factor v leiden - negative
MTHFR - gene mutation - negative
leucocyte Ab - female - separate report to follow ( worried there is something wrong now!!)

both our mycoplasma/ureaplasma - negative
HVS and semen - no problems

Its the LAD ones I'm confused about really. The DQ alpha isn't back yet though.

Any advice appreciated  xx


----------



## agate

Shim said:


> Agate, Vaudelin and Saffronxxx - thanks for the advice on vits for DH. good to see a positive result from eating a bit healthier and taking the vits can i just clarify - do you think he needs to take extra Vit C, Vit e, Zinc, omega 3 and Co-E on top of wellan conception? other than omega 3 - it seems to contain all of these, just note sure if this is sufficient.
> 
> i was tested last year August for my insulin levels and was found to be slightly insulin resistent and put on Metformin. I haven't retested, but have restarted on 2 x metformin tabs a day (stopped after my bfn in dec). do you think i need to get retested to ensure i even need to be taking this? chris and the Beer centre said i don't need to retest as "that's just my body now", but as its been so long, am not so sure. any advice would be great


If he wants to take extra C, zinc, omega 3 and Co-E I THINK that would be fine (but probably not necessary). I THINK I'd skip the E though.

Insulin resistance doesn't tend to go away unless maybe you were a lot chubbier when you are tested and a lot skinner now. Sometimes losing weight can help it go, but if you were already slim then its not likely to go away.



ann69 said:


> LAD:
> flowcytometry - negative - this means that the average of all your 4 LAD results is less than 30% - which means your body doesn't have many antibodies to cells with your DH's DQa (your embryos will get half their DQa from him) - so it means your body is probably not great at recognising embryos made with him - if you improve this with LIT then the embryos are less likely to be attacked by your immune system. It MAY rise naturally in pg but probably won't if you've been pg before and its still stayed low like this
> T cells IgM - 6.6
> T cells IgG - 2.
> B cells IgM - 28.2
> B cells IgG - 18.7 you'd like this to be over 30 and ideally over 50 - LIT will probably be suggested for you.
> 
> Factor II mutation thrombin factor - negative
> Factor v leiden - negative
> MTHFR - gene mutation - negative
> leucocyte Ab - female - separate report to follow ( worried there is something wrong now!!) that means your LAD





ClaireBuc said:


> Hi , hoping that someone will be able to help.
> 
> Had appointment with Dr G last monday to go through treatment with him, i will need clexane, steriods gestone and It appears that i will need 2 x ivig and at least 2 x lit, however Dr G was very vague as to when i could get this done, i'm on the waiting list for the lit and he didnt discuss when i would have the ivig, any ideas as to when this would be required as I am looking to down reg after august period circa 19th. Would appreciate any help as it's difficult sorting out everything else when i have no idea when he can get me in, have sent an email to him last week and not received a reply, not sure i want to ring him and risk the £90 fee as i really think this should have been covered and whilst i did ask he avoided it by saying it would be ok if i had gold treatment, not sure what this meant.


clex and steroids start on day 5/6/7 of stimms (stop clex from trigger day and restart day after EC). 
gestone from EC onwards 
usually 2 drips during stimms (aiming for 7-14 days before ET) - so GUESSING 1 IVIG and 1 ILs - but I don't know what Dr G has in mind for you - depends on your immune results. then 1 drip on BFP and 1 on HB scan - then 7-10 days wait before retest NKs, then decide what to do depending on results. 
think you need to get the LIT sorted asap - not much time for that - you can do the 2nd one during DR if necessary though - and then retest LAD on BFP.


deegirl said:


> Btw girls this is such a silly question I suppose but I noticed on Dr G's headed paper he is known as Mr G. My DH told me that it could be offensive to call him Dr Gorgy as he's higher than a doc. I've been calling him Dr G all along!  Anyone else??


technically, docs are called doc until they reach the level of consultant then they get the title Mr to show that they are in charge (Dr G presumably earned that right by heading up the clinic in Cairo etc). But I think this might be a UK thing and I am sure Dr G won't be offended... I don't think they expect lay people like us to understand hospital politics but its important for his standing with other docs when he writes to them, I guess - because it shows he is high enough up to run the show.


----------



## ann69

Oh no, this is not what I wanted to hear. We are due to start treatment in 4 weeks now, really don't want to keep delaying. Am also freaked out by all this stuff about LIT, it sound so complicated and like everything will be delayed for ages.


----------



## deegirl

Thanks Agate - I'll just keep calling him Doc then without worrying too much!  Hope you and LO are keeping well. 

Dee x


----------



## Shim

thanks agate. re: insulin resistence. not overly big, so i guess it will still be there. Will keep taking it.

out of interest - has anyone had a high TNfa after taking humira, but had it come down by IVIG? due to issues with co-ordinating the LIT, i can only take my humira on 6 and 20 July, retesting on 3 Aug. I am due to cycle with my Aug AF, so if it hasn't come down, no time to take another 2 shots ( and don't want to as tested + for latent tb and had to take 3 months of ab's). I have been told to take a preconception drip of IVIG. anyone heard of this before?

hope all you ladies are surviving this heat wave!   

Shim x


----------



## woodwitch

Ah Shim - glad I saw your post! I need to pick your brains if you don't mind? I tested positive for TB. My GP arranged a chest x ray and sputum tests and various blood tests - all fine. Awaiting response from Dr G re whether I can go ahead with humira. Can I ask you how you dealt with the positive TB test? Did your GP  prescribe the 3 months prophylactic ABs or did Dr G? Did you go and see a chest specialist? (My GP says I don't need to see one and he can't justify referring me)

Hope you can help,

Woody


----------



## ann69

How long would treatment be delayed for if LIT is required? I'm terrified at the thought of having to go to Athens and have it done. I'm also confused as to whether it is definately needed or whether people cycle without having it done.


----------



## Kitkat1

Hi everyone

It's good to read all your comments, they're really helpful.

I'm down to have LIT late August, but this is too late really as we're hoping to start IVF in August. It sounds like it might be easier just to go to Athens instead??! 

Anyone cycling with Mr G at the moment? We're trying to decide whether to go with him or to go somewhere else. He doesn't seem the most organised at times and can be a little vague and I'm worried he maybe like this if we do IVF with him. He does seem to know what he's doing though and has said that he has very high success rates!! 

Any advice appreciated. Kath x


----------



## ClaireBuc

Thanks Peanut and Agate for your advice, will ring to see how waiting list going. 

Peanut/Agate -Both of you mentioned IL's not sure what this is and Dr Gorgy didnt mention it although he was more interested in the fact that i hadn't done my C tests (due to light periods due to 3 erpc's in less than a year) and to be honest he took the blood sample whilst i was there by scratching the inside of my uterus as i had just finished my period, wouldn't advise this as i then spent the rest of the consultation in a state of shock due to the pain. Anyway can you let me know what IL's is, would this be required on top of the ivig I had CD56 - 15.1% and CD19cells + CD5- 25.3%which did reduce to 12.8% with the ivig, however i my other issue is my B-cells IgG is only at 2%.  Also he said maybe 1 or 2 ivig's so i assumed 2 but by what your both saying it would be 3, on my first ivf i didnt get pregnant but on the two times since i got pregnant on 20mg of clexane and 0.25 dextamethasone (steriod) so i was hoping that i wasnt going to need to many ivig's as he's quoted £1350 a go.

Agate your knowledge is quite amazing and cannot believe how much i have picked up just by reading your responses, thanks again and good luck on the final weeks of your pregnancy bet you cant wait for the little one to be born.

Woodwitch - Dr Gorgy told me to put my name on the waiting list before i left my appointment you can do this by ringing Akbil, I was due to start my treatment from my july period but couldn't due to the problems in getting in, Dr Gorgy is in discussions with the lab and they are going to try to get another member of staff to do his testing and to also come in on a saturday but he adivsed that this was only discussed the previous thursday so not sure how long it will tak to implement.

Claire


----------



## Shim

Hi Woody

I tested positive with the Quantiferon Gold test (blood test) and then went to see a consultant respiatory physician. I can highly recommend the TB clinic at the Chelsea and Westminster hospital if you live in london. They did the usual chest x-ray, liver function tests etc - all normal like you. i explained my situation - doing IVF and needing to take humira as part of treatment due to high TNfa) 

I was given the 3 month course of Anti TB chemoprophylaxis (Rifinah) with regular check ups to monitor liver function. My consultant did not see any problem in taking humira after 6 weeks of starting the ab's, but i waited until i had finished the course until i took the humira. reason: a lot of people with rheumatoid arthritis take humira and so if they are diagnosed with latent TB, there doesn't seem to be an issue and the risk of developing active tb is deemed to be low.

if your GP is giving you the ab's then you probably don't need to go to see a consultant - i did as my insurance covers it and then i was under the care of the TB clinic anyway as it was more closely monitered. your call though if it puts your mind at ease.

i just made sure that when i took the humira, tried not to go on the tube or be in a crowded place for that day. 

Hope that helps

Shim x


----------



## ells

Ann, we didnt do LIT even though Dr G recommended it for us.  We just were unable to go out to Athens and decided that if we got a BFP and needed LIT we would get it done then.  Luckily my retest came back with my levels over 80 - we were 12/13 weeks at that point, so it went up naturally itself.  We never had a DQ a match and I have never been pregnant before.  Good luck with your decision hun.

Deegirl    nice to hear from you hun.  not long now!


Hi to everyone else!

Ells


----------



## woodwitch

Thank you Shim - my GP seems reluctant to take things further so I am a bit worried that Dr G won't allow me to take humira unless I have the ABs, but I don't know who would prescribe me the ABs. I'm nowhere near London. Ah well - guess I can't do anything until Dr G gets back to me. More limbo.

Claire - I'm holding an appointment for LIT but thinking of cancelling but worried about when I will get in again!! Will make a decision when Dr G gets back to me - I'd like to release it asap so someone else can get in. Hopefully there will be women who are changing their plans all the time?? I really hope you get one soon. I booked it about 8 weeks in advance! I hope they get better provision really soon - it is so nervewracking! A Saturday would be perfect 

Woody


----------



## sarahh

Woodwitch - how old are you?  I had a positive TB test too and had the 14 week course of Rifinah that Shim did too (nice orange wee eh hon?   !!!)  The criteria, I believe, if you see a chest physician, is that if you are under 35 then they would recommend the course of anti'bs as this reduces the risk of the latent infection becoming active by half, this is particularly important to bear in mind if you do need Humira (as this in itself increases the risk of the latent infection becoming active).  I took Humira prob about 3 weeks before my 14 week course was finished.  Re: the antibiotics, you can choose a combination of 2 drugs for 3 months or 1 drug for 6 months.  You should have regular liver function tests while on the antib's.  hope that helps.  

We asked Mr G about whether he preferred to be called Mr or Dr and he said he should be a Mr but he is not really that concerned about it (that was one of DH's "really useful questions" during our first appt!!!)   

AFM I had bloods done this morning and Dr (MR!) G has increased my stimms to 600iu (300iu Fostimon & 300iu Merional) eek  .  Am a bit worried as I understand that the higher dose of stimms you are on, the lower the quality of the eggs  Anyone any experience of this or useful information (Agate?!! - hon, what are we going to do when your LO arrives?!)   So I inected nearly £200 of drugs tonight!!!   

Anyway, off to bed for me,  happy sleep to you all.  

Sarah x


----------



## sarahh

Woodwitch - sorry just seen from your signature that you are 42 - that may explain your GP's view - over the age of 35 and the risk of the antibiotics damaging your liver outweighs the benefits of reducing the risk of the latent infection becoming active.  So maybe Humira is not for you then hon?      

Sarah x


----------



## woodwitch

Sarah - good luck with your stimming 

Oh God - that makes me feel AWFUL!

Woody

Edit: sorry - not your fault! MY GPs daughter is positive for latent TB and they decided as parents not to treat her- so I think he just disagrees with it??


----------



## agate

Shim said:


> out of interest - has anyone had a high TNfa after taking humira, but had it come down by IVIG? due to issues with co-ordinating the LIT, i can only take my humira on 6 and 20 July, retesting on 3 Aug. I am due to cycle with my Aug AF, so if it hasn't come down, no time to take another 2 shots ( and don't want to as tested + for latent tb and had to take 3 months of ab's). I have been told to take a preconception drip of IVIG. anyone heard of this before?


yes... that's what the immune clinics had to do for everyone with high TNFa before Dr B started using humira a few years ago - and its what they still do for ladies that can't (or don't want to) take humira.



ann69 said:


> With those sort of LAD levels you'd hope to get the job done in only 2 shots of LIT - done at least 2 weeks apart (preferably 4 weeks if you can manage it). How much of a difference its likely to make depends on a) what your DQa's are (whether you have a match with your DH) and b) whether you've been pg before - if you have never been pg before its quite possible that your levels will rise naturally without LIT when you do get pg - but if you've had several failed (or any successful) pgs before and its stayed low, LIT is more likely to be important - the strongest evidence of the benefit of LIT is that ladies who have repeat pg failure are more likely to show LAD levels than ladies who have stayed pg - and that when they are given LIT they are more likely to achieve a live birth than ladies treated with placebo. But its got to be your decision. No one can be sure either way whether you would get pg without it, or whether you would need the same amount of IVIG/ILs during pg to hang onto a pg if you didn't have LIT.
> 
> 
> 
> Kitkat1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm down to have LIT late August, but this is too late really as we're hoping to start IVF in August. It sounds like it might be easier just to go to Athens instead??!
> 
> 
> 
> I found athens much easier than I expected and Dr T is really nice. I haven't had LIT with Dr G (only in athens and with Dr A) though so I don't know what that is like
> 
> 
> 
> ClaireBuc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Peanut and Agate for your advice, will ring to see how waiting list going.
> 
> Peanut/Agate -Both of you mentioned IL's not sure what this is and Dr Gorgy didnt mention it although he was more interested in the fact that i hadn't done my C tests (due to light periods due to 3 erpc's in less than a year) and to be honest he took the blood sample whilst i was there by scratching the inside of my uterus as i had just finished my period, wouldn't advise this as i then spent the rest of the consultation in a state of shock due to the pain. Anyway can you let me know what IL's is, would this be required on top of the ivig I had CD56 - 15.1% and CD19cells + CD5- 25.3%which did reduce to 12.8% with the ivig, however i my other issue is my B-cells IgG is only at 2%. Also he said maybe 1 or 2 ivig's so i assumed 2 but by what your both saying it would be 3, on my first ivf i didnt get pregnant but on the two times since i got pregnant on 20mg of clexane and 0.25 dextamethasone (steriod) so i was hoping that i wasnt going to need to many ivig's as he's quoted £1350 a go.
> 
> Woodwitch - Dr Gorgy told me to put my name on the waiting list before i left my appointment you can do this by ringing Akbil, I was due to start my treatment from my july period but couldn't due to the problems in getting in, Dr Gorgy is in discussions with the lab and they are going to try to get another member of staff to do his testing and to also come in on a saturday but he adivsed that this was only discussed the previous thursday so not sure how long it will tak to implement.
> 
> Claire
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ILs is intralipid - its a solution of soybean oil in saline which is given by drip. It has been shown to reduce NK killing power - they think it works by shifting the lipid balance in your blood from 'bad' fats to 'good' fats - which is supposed to change the signalling mechanism that controls the activity of NKs. Its seen as a much cheaper alternative to IVIG.
> 
> Scratching your uterus - that's taking a biopsy sample. Its an alternative to collecting tissue but it does hurt more which is why most ladies prefer the menstrual collection instead. In your results you should see a 50:1 NK assay done with intralipid - which you can compare with the 50:1 done with IVIG - that will give you an idea of which is likely to benefit you the most. Its the 50:1 killing power which is tested in the lab with IVIG and ILs - not the actual concentration of CD56 (NK cells), CD19 (B cells) and CD19+5+ (B cells which make autoantibodies). To see whether those go up and down with meds isn't possible in a lab test - you have to administer the drug and then wait and see because they can only change the concentration by affecting the proliferation of these cells - which takes at least 7-10 days.
> 
> 
> 
> sarahh said:
> 
> 
> 
> AFM I had bloods done this morning and Dr (MR!) G has increased my stimms to 600iu (300iu Fostimon & 300iu Merional) eek  . Am a bit worried as I understand that the higher dose of stimms you are on, the lower the quality of the eggs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that's quite a controversial question - some docs say that it does lower quality if you stimm harder- but others say that it doesn't and that higher doses tend to be given to older/lower responders in order to get a response, and that the quality problem is more about that patient group rather than the drugs themselves. There is a huge difference between what different clinics regard as a very high dose - but I get the impression that Dr G does tend to favour higher doses rather than lower - I THINK a lot of US clinics go for high doses, but we tend to be more conservative here - I THINK.
Click to expand...


----------



## Mousky

Shim - I'm going for an insulin test tomorrow (together with other glucose ones). I have PCOS so if I have it (insulin resistance) I'll be put on metformin. How did you feel while taking it? I've heard about some not so nice side effects? 


Dee - did you have DQ-a match? We don't, so I'm not sure if I could benefit from LIT (in this regard). But I'm planning to retest before FET, after 2 LITs and I hope it will have come down a bit   


Hi everyone, Agate, Woody, Sarah, Ells, Clare, kitkat, Ann, Peanuts and anyone I might have missed   


We couldn't speak to Dr Dher today coz he called during Brazils game and we couldn't hear anything   It's a good thing, though coz I'll have my insulin results and if it's "positive" I can ask his opinion about steroids etc. I just hope he won't tell me that with all my restrictions, I should give up


----------



## MissyMinx

Hi ladies, 

I'm not a frequent poster on FF atm for one reason or another, but I just wanted to say that I'm reading and keeping up with you all and sending you all heaps of        and   

Sorry for being rubbish and not actively participating but I'm thinking of you all, am hoping to tx late this year or early 2011 at the worst.

Congrats to the BFP's, and   to all the F&G ladies.

All my love,

Em.x


----------



## ClaireBuc

Thanks agate, unfortunately i didnt respond to the intralipids so its ivig for me, dh is really pleased about that!

clairex


----------



## agate

Mousky said:


> Shim - I'm going for an insulin test tomorrow (together with other glucose ones). I have PCOS so if I have it (insulin resistance) I'll be put on metformin. How did you feel while taking it? I've heard about some not so nice side effects?


it can upset your gut - always take it with food and if you need a high dose, ask to start small for a week or two and build up to give your gut chance to get used to it - most ladies are fine once everything settles down - and a lot get no symptoms at all.


----------



## Clarebaby

Sorry but I have a yucky question - I need to do the microplasma/ureaplasma tests - I have an appointment booked on Friday with Dr G, but not sure when AF coming.  Can it be done if you have AF?

Sorry!


----------



## agate

CB: if you do it by menstrual fluid (sent off to athens) then definitely yes.  If its by swab (which I think is cheaper) for PCR, I'm not sure, but I have a feeling that you can't.  If its swab by HVS, maybe you can but I'm not sure.  You could ring TDL and check as I think Dr G is away at the moment? - the codes for the tests are on their website - under HVS, mycoplasma and ureaplasma.


----------



## Clarebaby

Excellent idea Agate!

Doing HVS, person at TDL said I would have to ask Dr G! thanks! Will just have to keep the appointment and see what happens.

Thanks again for another prompt response.  Hope you are well and coping in the heat.

C


----------



## SaffronXXX

Em - Just saying hi! I am not a frequent poster either and rubbish at keeping up with everyone!

Ann - I had the same dilemma re LIT too. In the end we decided to cycle without LIT this July. We have provisionally booked LIT for August so that if BFP we can get it done though. 

Mousky - I am currently on metformin too, although I don't have PCOS. It's also supposed to help ladies with higher risk of OHSS. (I had OHSS in my last cycle of IVF). In my last cycle, I started taking one tablet a day from day one of downregulation and then I was supposed take 2 tablets after a week, but I had a terrible diarrhea as well as vomiting with 2 tablets. I had to go back to one tablet a day. I'd say ALWAYS take it after your biggest meal of the day as it can really upset stomach for some people.  

Kath - I can understand where you are coming from re Dr Gorgy. Most of ladies here would probably agree that Dr G is very busy and can  be disorganised but they also say that he goes out of his way to help his patients when it really matters. I am cycling with a clinic closer to us while getting px and guidance from Dr G. This suites us well as we feel the travelling to London from Scotland would be an added stress for us. Our clinic is a private one so they are very accomodating us having immune tx from Dr G. Hope you make a right decision. Good luck 

Ann69 - I know how you feel. I felt like that when we had our results back in May!!! I kept thinking Gosh it's like a can of worms!!! We decided to go ahead with July cycle with all the usual immune meds plus Intralipids but without LIT in the end. I also decided not to bother with Uterine NK test. (Dr G recommened it to me although my TNF-a was within normalmmm) becasue if UNK is high then it means yet more meds (humira). I feel I have enough meds to deal with as it is and hope they will be enough to give us BFP this time.  Yes, LIT seems to improve the chance of succcess for some ladies but Dr G wouldn't push LIT for people who don't want to go down that route. Ultimately it's your decision and hope you make the decision you are happy with no matter what you decide to do  

Simm - my DH has been taking extra Vit C and maca on top of what wellman has in it  

Hello to dee, woody, clarebaby, clairebuc, peanutts, agate, sunrise, zeka, sarah, pigloo, VW, Donkey, Diane, Berry, Saffa, Ells, Thumbelina and anyone else I have missed X


----------



## SaffronXXX

Oh forgot to add... day 8 of downreg for me today and no sign of AF. I am hoping it will arrive in the next couple of days. No side effect apart from terribly flat chest!!! 

SX


----------



## Zeka

Saffron,  I've never noticed the flat chest when d/rt b4 but that's something else to look out for and obsess about next time ;-)

*wave* everyone!
Zeka x


----------



## agate

SaffronXXX said:


> I also decided not to bother with Uterine NK test. (Dr G recommened it to me although my TNF-a was within normalmmm) becasue if UNK is high then it means yet more meds (humira).


that's his normal approach. if your TNFa was high he'd have Px'd humira anyway (so doing the biopsy wouldn't have changed your Tx), so he tends not to suggest checking for uNK unless your TNFa is normal (to save you the discomfort of a biopsy in case you are going to be on humira regardless).


----------



## sarahh

Hi all, I have realised today that I should have had a scan yesterday but because Dr G is away he just said come on Thursday, I thought he said I was going to see Dr Eskander on Tuesday when we were planning the cycle but then he mentioned nothing about it on Friday.  I will have been stimming for 6 days when i have a scan on Thursday - has anyone else gone this long?  

Oh and I have a raging sore throat - any recommendations about increasing the dose of pred that I started on today - should i increase 25mg to 40mg to combat the sore throat for a few days?  

Sorry for the me post, I'm just off to bed tho as feel pants.  Oh and I've just realised I need to do my stimms!!!!! 

Sarah x


----------



## ClaireBuc

Hi everyone hope your all doing ok.

Great bit of news today the results for my c test have come back negative  it's a start and now just need to get my app for the Lit, unfortunatly don't think it's wise for me to proceed without it as my results were so low.

Tried to get my hysteroscopy and all docs i have seen on nhs have said no (assume it's an age thing), intend to proceed without it rather than stress over it.



Claire


----------



## ells

SarahH    sorry you are having a bit of a tough time of it.  You might want to mention your sore throat to Qing - she has a magic remedy which helped me when I got one!   

ClaireB congrats on the negative result you must be relieved.  Hope you get your LIT sorted out quickly!

MissyMinx     

Evening to everyone else hope you are all doing okay.

Had a right time of it today - terrible traffice getting into London (must have say in traffic jams for 5-6 hours   ) to get retests done - and ended up with parking ticket!  The reckon we didnt have a valid pay and display one - but it was on the dashboard within the time too!!!  So i will be appealing.  Only just made it for my bloods too - got there at 1.30pm but didnt get called until 1.50pm.  Feeling pretty knackered so off to have a shower and then hitting the sack.  
Nightie night everyone.

Ells


----------



## Mousky

Clare - fantastic about your C results   


Saffron and Agate - thanks for the tips re Metformin. I had the tests today - I thought I was going to faint after all that glucose I drank    - so I'll only get my results tomorrow and I'm    it'll be OK. 


Ells - what a rough day you've had!    I hope you'll get good results on your tests     btw, how you're feeling?   


Sarah - I've gone this long    I'm a bit slow to respond, though. Or too fast!    It should be OK   


Has anyone heard about Berry? And Cozy?
How's everyone else?


A question    re uNK. If they're high, will IVIg/ILs/Steroids have any influence on it? Or is it just Humira that does the trick?


xx


----------



## agate

Mousky:  IVIg/ILs/Steroids MAY help - what Dr B said was that the uNK (CD57) are particularly difficult to treat and MIGHT only respond to humira. The bit to read is pg 73 of his book.  I guess its one of the those things that you don't know until you try so you either go all out to deal with them by taking humira or you try without and only resort to humira next time later on if the other meds aren't enough for you?


----------



## Louiseb26

Morning Ladies

Not been on for a while...been feeling a bit pants and the heat hasn't helped.

This is day 6 of dr for me and I'm feeling so tired...cant remember feeling like this before.No sign of AF yet...lets hope she shows her face in the next couple of days.

On the Metformin front.I take 3 a day...make sure you take it with food.I made the mistake of not doing that and had a funny turn on it.It drops you blood sugar level...its not a nice feeling.Now i don't notice any side affects with it.

Agate - I have just looked at your ticker...where has the time gone.Not long now lovely   

Ells - Thats all you needed and in this heat.Glad you made it in time for your bloods.   

Em - Lovely to hear from you.Hope all going well for you Hun   

Ratsy - How you getting on my lovely.Hope you and dp are ok   

Sarah - Hope your feeling better soon.You don't need that on top of doing this as well   

Saffron - I'm not that far behind you.Cant say i have noticed the flat chest...if anything the opposite   

Zeka - How the anti bs going.Hope you don't feel to yucky on them   

Shellie - How you doing Hun? I will get around to calling...its been a bit non stop here   

Sending big   to all the lovely ladies with bumps...hope your all coping with the heat.

Big   to Mousky,Sunshine,Moxie,Billberry,Swinny,Clairebuc,Clairebaby

Lou xx


----------



## scottie21

Just bookmarking x

I've got an appointment with Dr G on Monday 2nd August to do some immune tests so here's hoping he can help us with some answers!  Looking to do a DE cycle again hopefully soon.  Been contemplating it for a long time!  Hope I can join your thread and get advice from you ladies.  

Agate - you have helped me with info in the past and I am really really grateful.  Thankyou.

Can I ask Saffron a question - I see you are from Scotland and your clinic is ok with you getting treatment from Dr G.  I am with GCRM at the moment and likely to do the ED with them via a clinic in Spain - are you with them?

Just a quick question from me - Do you know if Dr G can go through the results of your tests with you over the phone to save another trip to London or do you need to do 2?  Also, any ideas on up to date costs?  I've had all level 1 tests carried out and endo biopsy so don't know if DR G will want to do the full monty or if we can be selective?

Thanx


----------



## agate

Scottie: a lot of us do most of our appointments by phone.  With a phone appt, all you need to make sure is that you phone akbil in advance and get her to fax/post you your results as Dr G likes you to have them in front of you.

On costs, I'm not sure if the initial appt is £120 or whether its now £150. 
A lot of ladies decide to get NK assay, cytokine ratio (those are about £350 each), plus LAD (arguably less useful if you were doing donor sperm) which is £200, plus DQa for both partners (don't know the price of that one), plus inherited thrombophilia (MTHFR, PAI-1 etc - £?)plus chlamydia test £200, plus swabs for mycoplasma and ureaplasma for you (£75?) and sperm culture (inc mycoP and ureaP) for DH (?£) -  your GP MIGHT be able to do the mycoP and ureaP for both of you - but they don't all seem to have access to those tests.  Ideally, try and get your karyotyping done through NHS (just DH, if its DE).

You can always pick and choose - Dr G will want to go through your whole medical and fertility history before he advises you on which tests you should have - but MOST of them are all relevant to MOST ladies.  You can always ask him to put the tests in order of priority for you?  The more reading you can do about the tests in advance, the better you can make a decision on the day that you are happy with later - you don't want to turn down tests and then realise you really did want them - just didn't understand why and then have more hassle to get them done remotely - or have tests and then decide afterwards that there was no point, because you were never going to consider the Tx that the tests would indicate.  Dr B's book is a good starting point.

There are several ladies from scotland - thinking of Berry and Peanuts for example.


----------



## scottie21

Thanks again Agate.  Can't wait to see him but will read up again on Dr Beer's book so I am up to speed before I go!


----------



## mwb

Scottie, we paid £120 for our visit at the Clinic about 4 weeks ago. DQa for both were £210, Vaginal swab £75, Semen Culture £50, TB Gold test £80, the test for tuberculosis you have to take if you will need Humira.


----------



## scottie21

Thanks MWB - really appreciate the advice.  This might seem an odd question but do they take credit cards or is it cash only.


----------



## mwb

Scottie, not odd at all, I had the same question . They take credit card and for the phone app, make sure to have the card number at hand. Akbil will be handling the payment before you get to talk with Dr .


----------



## scottie21

Thanks again    MWB


----------



## Saffa77

Hi Scottie

I am in Scotland too and have my bloods done at the GP and then go to the post office before 5pm to courier the blood to Lonodon before to get there before 9am the next morning and then they go to Chicago - it works out well so not needing to see Dr G at all i basically saw him once to do my tests and then get his secretary to fax through results then you call Dr G (he charges £90 for a phone consultation)  and he goes through it all with you if you need drips etc then he can send a prescription to health care at home who come over to my house once a month for my monthly drip what a pleasure!!  and it still works out cheaper then having the drips done in Dr Gs office.  All the best it will be well worth the visit to go see him, make sure you ask him HEAPS of questions and yes read the De Beer book i read that before i went and it made better sense when I saw Dr G.

Sx


----------



## Mousky

For the ladies on Metformin and/or for the ones who had insulin resistance test. 


I just got my results and they tested the following: fasting glucose 85 (70-99), fasting insulin 4,54 (2.6 - 24.9) and glucose 2h  after 75g (glucose) charge 80. I don't see how this will tell if I'm insulin resistant? I thought my insulin levels should have been measured again    I'm still waiting for the doctors reaction but I don't think that's right! I don't fancy taking metformin if I don't have insulin issues. I have hypoglycemia (?) every now and then and clearly I don't want to make it worse   


Scottie - I live in Belgium so I had a first appt with him to discuss the tests and had my follow up over the phone. He doesn't take AMEX   


xx


----------



## agate

Mousky are you saying that your fasting glucose was  85 mg/dL and your 2 hour post glucose was only 80 mg/dL?  I think that is what you must mean but its much easier to comment on results if you tell us what units of measurements are being used.
We use different units in the UK but (using my ropey maths) that would be 4.7 nmol/l and 4.4 nmol/l.  

Those levels show no insulin resistance. 

They show that your insulin was doing its job.  It kept your glucose down overnight so your fasting level was fine and then when you were given the glucose drink, it did its job and dragged your blood glucose down again.

(just for info, in the UK we write 4.54 (like the US) rather than 4,54 like the europeans).


----------



## Mousky

Fasting: 85 mg/dL ref 70 - 99 mg/dL
2 hours after 75g of glucose: 80 mg/dL ref up to 139 mg/dL NORMAL


Insulin: 4,54 (like the europeans then   ) mcUI/mL ref 2,6 - 24,9 mcUI/mL


I know the results look good but shouldn't I have received some insulin as well and then retest the levels?   Some sort of insulin clamp   For whatever the reason I decided this was the test to show if one has insulin resistance or not   


I hope it's all good so I don't need to worry too much while on steroids


----------



## ms_dee

interesting 

I was not given any glucose nor insulin to test. All I had to do is not eat during 12 hours and then have blood drawn. They did see that my insulin was 74.5 uU/ml where the reference of the lab is 3-25. When I showed this result to the Doctor he prescribed me metformin. This is how I learned that I have insulin resistance. Dr Gorgy also told me I had to stay on metformin till end of 1st trimester of pregnancy and then retest as the steroids could mess with the insulin.

So this was not the correct way to test for it? My GP here tries to help me as much as she can and she gives me always all lab results but does not really go into interpreting them.


----------



## agate

Mousky: no you don't need to be given insulin.  you checked that your starting insulin level was in the normal range and then your body responded exactly as it should have done to the glucose you were given- your insulin brought your sugar level down to normal (instead of shooting up the way it would have done if you were insulin resistant).  that is the way that the glucose tolerance test for insulin resistance is done.  

Ms dee: you had a fasting glucose and insulin level test.  You didn't have the GTT.  But seeing as your basal insulin level was high, its very likely that if you had the GTT, you would have shown insulin resistance - i.e,. 2 hours after the glucose load - your glucose level would have been too high -  so that means that even though you have a LOT of insulin, your body would be resisting it - and not bringing your glucose level down as it should do. When you get pg, you should ask your doc to do a GTT (and will probably need to repeat it more than once as your pg progresses) because you need to make sure that the metformin is enough - during pg, insulin resistance often gets worse, so you need more meds.


----------



## ms_dee

Agate thank you very much for the answer


----------



## sarahh

Hi quick question - I'm on 300 Fostimon & 300 Merional - can I use one vial of saline and mix them all or should i do 2 injections - one for the Fostimon & one for the Merional?  

Off for my scan tomorrow -feeling rather bloated and uncomfortable - hope I don't need to carry on 600 till EC   ! 

Hope everyone is ok, 

Sarah x


----------



## Cath34

I'm sure I mixed mine separately Sarah. He then dropped the Fostimon pretty soon so I cant swear by it.


----------



## Mousky

Glad to know that's enough! No metformin then   


Dee - are your glucose levels also high? how you're feeling on metformin? My doctor told me she was also insulin resistant and she took met throughout pregnancy to avoid gestational diabetes. 


Sarah - I hope it's good news on your scan!


----------



## ms_dee

my glucose is rather ok

82mg/dl where the lab ranges are 74 - 109 

well I am off the metformin because we did travel to Asia and European toilets are only sparingly available there so with the other food habits I was worried I would feel like in the beginning where I had to run to the toilet or had bad cramping. And given now that I am back I am on the AB's I did not want them to work less because of having to readjust to the metformin. I did feel ok just after I got used to it when I first started it. In the beginning though it can be quite uncomfortable as it either makes you run to the toilet or it was just stomach cramps. However, the most uncomfortable was that there were many foods I did not want to eat anymore the mells did let me feel sick or days I had really to force food in as I lost all appetite. This could go and come even after long use of metformin. On those appetite less days I had eat mostly fruit as that did go well or salades. As soon we finish the AB's I will start again to take metformin. I do build it up slowly though to not have too many side effects. 

By the way the reading of the insuline and glucose was before I took metformin - in February. I haven't retested those yet. Will do so after I am back a month on metformin


----------



## SaffronXXX

Scottie- yes we are with GCRM too. I have a DD from previous relationship so we don't get any NHS funded cycles so decided GCRM would be the best clinic to go with, although it means 5 hour round trip every time we have an app. We are very happy with them so far and I really like Dr Marco ;-) We had 2 tel consultations over the phone with Dr G following the level 2 tests. We weren't really consulted with regarding what tests we need but Dr G just whizzed through a list of tests we should have and that was basically it... It cost us just under 1900 GBP. In the end though, we were pretty happy that we got them all done at the same time as it might have meant another trip down to London if we missed out something the first time. Dr G recemmeded us to do Karyotyping tests but we managed to organise this through our GP for a small fee. He also recommeded us to to do uterine biopsy when we spoke over the phone but we put it to the back of our minds for now.  
  
sarah  -  good luck for your scan hunni

AFM - Day 11 of downreg. Where the heck did Auntie Flo go?! Just called GCRM to see if I can come in on Mon for a baseline scan anyway and waiting for someone to get back to me. In the middle of finishing off house extension so varnished 12 doors, front and back twice this morning! My wrist is aching....oh well at least it's healping me to take my mind off!


----------



## sunrise69

scottie21 said:


> Just bookmarking x
> 
> I've got an appointment with Dr G on Monday 2nd August to do some immune tests so here's hoping he can help us with some answers! Looking to do a DE cycle again hopefully soon. Been contemplating it for a long time! Hope I can join your thread and get advice from you ladies.
> 
> Just a quick question from me - Do you know if Dr G can go through the results of your tests with you over the phone to save another trip to London or do you need to do 2? Also, any ideas on up to date costs? I've had all level 1 tests carried out and endo biopsy so don't know if DR G will want to do the full monty or if we can be selective?
> 
> Thanx


Hi Scottie, I had my first consultation with dr. G. last week. Luckily I had all level 1 tests carried out and I had "only": Nk assay, citokine ratios, LAD, DQa for me and DH, clamydia tests and swab for clamydia & ureoplasma. All together with consultation were 1765£. You can pay by credit card. As I'm Italian and I live in Italy my next consultation will be by phone (£ 90 by credit card before speaking with him). 
I went in London alone - as we're using donor embrios - but dr. G. wanted DH's blood and semen so I had to sent by TNT. Really I didn't understand why (as we had azoospermia) but I did it. 
If possible go to Dr. G. with DH!
Hope this help.
Monica


----------



## agate

sunrise69 said:


> dr. G. wanted DH's blood and semen so I had to sent by TNT. Really I didn't understand why (as we had azoospermia) but I did it.
> If possible go to Dr. G. with DH!


you can't do the LAD test without having someone else's blood to test your antibodies against (its a test of how your body reacts to foreign cells). So if it wasn't your DH, you'd still have had to provide someone's blood for it, and in case you might need LIT, your DH is the safest blood donor (because you know his lifestyle), so it makes sense for it to be his blood used for LAD and to be checked for DQa.


----------



## vw22

Hi Agate, Hope you are well.


We have decided to now look seriously at surrogacy. But also have one more try with DP sperm and donor eggs. Most recently I had a negative result IVIg, pred, clex, aspirn for the last donor egg round. (Before the following natural pregnancy that might have been helped by the immune drugs still floating around the system.)


We are just about to have a phone consult and DP go away to work again for a long time so really need to get all the right questions and  things in order before he goes.


Am I right that LIT is the only thing we havn't tried?
As we are doing Donor eggs plus DP sperm, am I right there is still value in getting his bloods for DQaplha testing (which I have results of for me but not him)?
Am I right that even if he can't be around Dr G (or whoever) can still give me LIT?


The only tests I can work I we/I havn't now had (apart from the DQalpha for him), is LAD and sperm fragmentation test...


Is there anything else that is really obvious that I have forgotten given this really is our final go that you THINK Dr G might suggest?


I am so sorry for the simple questions but I think I am so confused now, I need everything really spelling out especially before talking to Dr G.


Many thanks vx


----------



## Zeka

Hello ladies, not sure if anyone can answer my question but pls shout if you can!

I had my 'LH surge+5days' scan and progesterone bloods today and was told I can start d/r soon on long protocol. 
On my last two cycles I've started d/r straight away (about day 21) but this time doc said to count back 7 days from an average length cycle and start d/r then...so that would be day 24 for me. This month however I got an LH surge 4-5 days earlier than usual and therefore I'd assume my cycle will be shorter by 4-5days. So my question is, does anyone know whether it matters if I get my period only a few days after starting d/r? Or ideally should I be starting d/r earlier?
..sorry for long winded random qu...

Zeka x


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies 

Does anyone have DR Gorgys e-mail address please thanks girls 

R    xxx


----------



## woodwitch

[email protected]


----------



## ratsy

Thanks woodwitch   

R xx


----------



## Pigloo

Zeka - my clinic start d/r at any time of cycle, I started on day i started bleeding?


----------



## agate

vw22 said:


> Am I right that LIT is the only thing we havn't tried?intralipids? Have you (and DH) been tested for chlamydia, mycoplasma and ureaplasma? A lot of ladies seem to find that these have been missed by the standard screening - and there seems to be a growing number of docs regarding antibiotics as a valid fertility Tx. have you had all the anatomical stuff checked by hyseteroscopy - in case there is a septum, fibroid, scarring, polyp etc? Has your DP had his karyotyping done?
> As we are doing Donor eggs plus DP sperm, am I right there is still value in getting his bloods for DQaplha testing (which I have results of for me but not him)? yes - because the embryo will get 1 of its DQa from him - and you will need him to provide blood for your LAD tests. If he can't be available when you need his blood for LAD (re)tests, then maybe if you knew his DQa you could find a volunteer here who has the same DQa as him who might provide you some blood on the days you need it?
> Am I right that even if he can't be around Dr G (or whoever) can still give me LIT? I think Dr G is only going to do donor by 'trading' your DH's blood for the blood of someone else's DH/friend - I don't think he is going to be able to provide paid donors in London. So you might need to offer your blood (not on the same day as you get LIT) or somebody else's blood (with a known DQa) in 'trade' if you want donor blood when your DH is unavailable. You could try asking on the LIT needed thread to see if anyone would volunteer to provide some blood for you (you'd presumably have to pay for their screening tests though). If you are going to be doing LIT, you might want to think about going to Athens because Dr T can provide paid donors. So you wouldn't have to offer blood 'in trade' - you'd also be able to have pooled donor LIT if you really wanted to hedge your bets by maximising your response to a variety of DQa. but you won't know the 'ideal' donor until you find out your DP's DQa - if you have no matches with him, then the ideal donor would be him, or failing that someone with the same DQa as him. if you have 1 match then the ideal donor would PROBABLY be someone who has 1 DQa number which is the same as him (the one that doesn't match you). if you have more than 1 match, the ideal donor would PROBABLY be someone has totally different DQa to your DP.


Zeka: I'm not really sure. A lot of clinics start DR on day 21 regardless of your cycle length/ov date etc. But I suppose in theory, starting DR 7 days before AF MIGHT be optimal in some way (e.g., to minimise the risk of cysts or of any follicles getting a head start)? I think you should really ask your clinic because its not obvious to me.


----------



## sarahh

Hi all, just a quick update from me, had my scan today and only have 4 follies on the left and 6 on the right and that is on 600iu    However, my lining was ok!!  My oestrogen levels were low on Monday which is why he put me up to 600.  Apparently they are "ok" today - like a doughnut, i forgot to ask the numbers.  

Had an IVIG drip, the first bottle went fine then he flushed my vein through with saline to make the next one go quicker and he managed to knock the needle out of my vein but the stuff kept flowing so my arm started swelling up as it was not actually going into my vein - ouch !!    Had to call Akvile in to say "my arm is swelling up and is very painful" and Mr G came straight in!!    

Then I got home and dropped the whole veg / salad box from the fridge on my ankle!!  

Hope you've all had a better day!! 

Hmmm, time for bed eh?!    

Sarah xx


----------



## sarahh

Zeka, I got my af a few days after starting d/r so no, don't think it matters.  

Sarah x


----------



## Zeka

Thanks Pigloo, Agate, Sarah - so nice just to get a bit of reassuance once in a while   

Sarah - sounds like you shld defo be in bed to avoid any more mishaps! Hope your arm and ankle aren't too sore


----------



## sunrise69

agate said:


> sunrise69 said:
> 
> 
> 
> dr. G. wanted DH's blood and semen so I had to sent by TNT. Really I didn't understand why (as we had azoospermia) but I did it.
> If possible go to Dr. G. with DH!
> 
> 
> 
> you can't do the LAD test without having someone else's blood to test your antibodies against (its a test of how your body reacts to foreign cells). So if it wasn't your DH, you'd still have had to provide someone's blood for it, and in case you might need LIT, your DH is the safest blood donor (because you know his lifestyle), so it makes sense for it to be his blood used for LAD and to be checked for DQa.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Agate, now everything it's much easy. 
DQa for DH was done - only - to see if he may be my donor in case I'll need LIT. 
Dh will be my donor only if we haven't a match and I'll need LIT if I have low LAD (my body don't reacts well to foreign cells). I don't know my embrio's DQa so I can't see if I have a match with it and probably I'll need LIT? Do you know if semen is used for LAD?
Have a nice day.
Monica


----------



## agate

sunrise: blood is used for lad and for lit, not semen.


----------



## SaffronXXX

Sarah - sounds like you had a full day!! Hope you are taking it easy today. When is your next follicle scan? 
Pigloo - how are you getting on with downregulation?

AFM - AF arrived last night! Hurraaaay!!! A baseline scan booked on Mon  I also heard from GCRM today and they said they can administer Intralipids for me on day 8 in their clinic when I come in for the first follicle scan. They are charging me 200 GBP as opposed to 285 with [email protected] so I am very pleased They have been so accommodating us going through immune tx. We wouldn't have gotten this should we have gone with NHS run clinic. 

Sx


----------



## vw22

Thanks Agate vx


----------



## sunrise69

agate said:


> sunrise: blood is used for lad and for lit, not semen.


Thank you Agate.
Have a nice week end.
Monica


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies 

Can anyone tell me what calcium tablets i need for when i start my clexane 

Thanks girls 

R xx


----------



## needjustone

Hello everyone

I am new to this board and have an appt with Dr G on on 5th July. Can anyone help me with a few questions?

I'm starting my NHS cycle next week when AF arrives and want Dr G to px me immune drugs as i have high NK count and endo.
I have done all my immune tests which i will take with me.

What does Dr G px for immunes ( i think i only have high NK)

When he prescribe IL. my last cycle lister gave me IL at EC and apparently this is too late , i need at 2 prior to ET

Will he prescribe aspirin etc?

Finally as i am a low responder NHS have said if i have less than 3 follicles then the cycle will be cancelled. I'm 39 and cant waste this cycle. IS there any chance DR G could take over EC and ET if this is the case

Thank you all and i look forward to speaking to you x


----------



## agate

ratsy said:


> Hi ladies
> 
> Can anyone tell me what calcium tablets i need for when i start my clexane
> 
> Thanks girls
> 
> R xx


any kind - if the progesterone makes you constipated then Calasorb (calcium citrate) may go down easier.



needjustone said:


> What does Dr G px for immunes ( i think i only have high NK)if its only elevated NKa and you respond well to ILs, probably ILs, prednisolone and clexane (plus aspirin)
> 
> Finally as i am a low responder NHS have said if i have less than 3 follicles then the cycle will be cancelled. I'm 39 and cant waste this cycle. IS there any chance DR G could take over EC and ET if this is the casemaybe - but apart from drugs, most of the cost is the cost of a cycle is the cost of EC (and a bit for ET) - so he MIGHT advise you that it would be in your interest to stop and maybe start again on a higher dose of drugs (unless your NHS clinic already have you maxed out on FSH)


----------



## berry55

hey girls,

I have been on gestone injections for almost 2 months now and i have started to notice that the muscles on my upper quads (right and left) are  starting to get really swollen, is that normal? swollen and tender. 

thanks xxxx


----------



## ratsy

Thanks agate   

R x


----------



## Pigloo

Hi girls - just dropping in to say hi

To the pregnant ladies - hope you and bumps are blossoming

To the rest of you on your journey's hope things are going smoothly and all the co-ordinating of sorting tests/px's out is not taking it out of you!!

AFM - I have been done regging for 8 days only another 19 to go..its so long!!!  DP and i are still popping the AntiBs and will be finished on Wednesday, please please have cleared that pesky C infection!!  Can't wait for a nice cuppa tea with MILK!!!!! 

Pigloo x


----------



## woodwitch

Hang on in there Pigloo - love your tickers  why don't you start one for the nice cuppa tea?

How come you know exactly when you are getting your puppy and what is it? (what have I missed?)



Woody


----------



## Pigloo

Woody - we went to see him last Saturday (he's an Airedale Terrier) we can't get him until 17th July when he will be ready to go to his new home.  We guna call him Alfie    

Nice cuppa tea..i could put that on too couldn't I, doubt I'd have enough room though but def got that ticker in my head, DP got another ticker in his head and it involves the bedance, he's been going cold turkey while we been on these antiBs   poor hard done to man heheheehe

X


----------



## Mousky

Ladies,

I think I know the answer but I'd like to confirm it anyway, has anyone had the K-562 target cell test? We just spoke to Dr Sher (terribly negative phone consult and he really thinks FET isn't going to work   ) and he suggested I'd have this test. He basically disregarded all tests we had with Dr G  I got a feeling he thinks those tests are outdated


----------



## Zeka

Mousky, what's the test for?


----------



## agate

Mousky: K562 test is the NK cytotoxicity assay that Dr G does - the one that goes 50:1 etc

info is here in RFU manual - K562 is the cell line that is used as the specimen/target cell in the assay - the test works by seeing what percentage of these K562 specimen cells your NKs kill off within 2 hours.

http://rosalindfranklin.edu/DNN/Portals/24/documents/microbiology/ClinicalImmunology/Immune_Function_Assays/NK_cell_Cytotoxicity_Assay.pdf

he probably thought you meant you'd just had how many CD56s there are in your blood (which is only 1 line in the NK assay) - if you didn't explain that the NK test that you'd had was the K562.

Berry: that sounds odd - if you are jabbing your butt I can't see why that would affect your quads (front of your thighs). Could be a pg symptom? if its severe you should ask your GP or MW.

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## Mousky

He says it's for NK cells activity   He doesn't think the NK assay gives any relevant info and neither does TH1/TH2 levels. He's completely different (I knew before the call   ), he's totally against LIT/Humira/Hidden C etc. 


Will this ever get easier?   


Agate, just saw your post. Well, I did email him my results but I don't think he saw it.
I'll his assistant


----------



## Mousky

Why have I missed it? Is it also called K562 in the UK?   


Thnks for the link, btw. We're trying to calm down and put everything in perspective. The problem, in HIS opinion, it's not only the immunological part but he also suspects our embryos are bad because of the wrong stimulation protocol. If he's right, there's no way this is ever going to work in Belgium


----------



## agate

Mousky: yes that is exactly what the NK assay is for - it measures the activity/killing power/cytoxity of your NKs - he is talking about the same test you have already had.

K562 is just the type of cell used in the test- its all explained in that link I sent you.  it is definitely the test you've already had with Dr G.

He is very sale-pitchy about his stims protocols - but basically the only difference between his protocol and all the others is that he uses antagonist to switch off LH from the start of stimms.  I did ask Dr G his opinion about SIRMS protocol and he said it was just a gimmick.  It MAY help some ladies to do better - especially if their egg quality is very poor - but remember that MOST clinics around the world do not use that protocol (and ladies DO get pg).  Try not to panic and remember he is a salesman as well as a doc!

I think I did tell you he was totally against LIT and humira? or was it someone else? I get muddled.  He is against the greek C test, - some of us have asked him about it on his chat forum - but when I asked him to look at some references and data that justified it, he never bothered to reply - so I honestly don't think he's read all the info on the subject.


----------



## needjustone

What does Dr G px for immunes ( i think i only have high NK)if its only elevated NKa and you respond well to ILs, probably ILs, prednisolone and clexane (plus aspirin)

Finally as i am a low responder NHS have said if i have less than 3 follicles then the cycle will be cancelled. I'm 39 and cant waste this cycle. IS there any chance DR G could take over EC and ET if this is the casemaybe - but apart from drugs, most of the cost is the cost of a cycle is the cost of EC (and a bit for ET) - so he MIGHT advise you that it would be in your interest to stop and maybe start again on a higher dose of drugs (unless your NHS clinic already have you maxed out on FSH)

Thank you . iT sense about the EC and ET, hopefully we will get more than 3 though..


----------



## berry55

agate- i was told to inject into my upper quad and the nurses showed me where to inject. tonight when dh was injecting it was actually sore for the 1st time right into my but!!! xxx


----------



## agate

Berry: butt is normally more common but maybe you are too sylph-like!  It explains why your quads hurt though - you've been jabbing them with a big needle for weeks!


----------



## Mousky

Thanks, Agate    tbh, I'm not so worried about LIT/Humira coz clearly that works, the babies are there to prove it. The problem could be that even though my cons tried to keep my stimms under control, I still had 16 eggs (probably more that weren't retrieved) and even though I know most ladies here are happy with a nice crop, I always worried about the quality of my eggs (if there were too many). To make matters worse, from the 16, we only got 4 embryos on day 3    I really wasn't happy about it and I worried there was something wrong    I don't see how I could have any saying on my next go FET/Fresh so it's basically Belgium "nhs" setting all the rules


----------



## sarahh

Hey, its been quiet on here today!  

Had another scan today and still got about 10 follies total, but they have grown a bit more - and my lining is good apparently.  Obviously dissapointed that only have 10 but just hope they have something in them!  Looks like EC might be on again for Weds.    that there are some decent eggs in there.  Had intralipids too, pushed it through in no time!!    Got home from hot sweaty london to find DH feeling very poorly so he went straight to bed & I looked after DD - all in all, what a fab birthday!!!  I'm sincerely hoping that the birthday month is far better than the birthday day!!!!  

hope everyone else is having a lovely weekend 

Sarah x


----------



## mag108

sarahh: quality not quantity!


----------



## ells

Sarahh    Happy birthday for yesterday!  I am sure you will have a good birthday month with a fab present at the end!! 10 follies is good hun, I am sure you will get some nice juicy eggies in them too.  Are you having another scan or is that it now until Wednesday?

Hi to everyone else hope you are all well.

My NK's have flared so will be rinigng Dr G on Monday morning to see what the plan of action is! Does anyone know if Akvil is on holiday now?  I am sure I heard or saw written down that she was away during July but I cant remember when she goes.  She is a real Godsend with getting things sorted out and faxed etc i am not sure Dr G will be able to cope when she is away!!!

Hope you all have a great weekend.

Ells


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

Berry, the gestone injections in my   always end up making it very senstive/increasinly sore so I can imagine it would be no different if you are doing them in quads. I find numbing with ice beforhand makes a huge difference.

Sarah, 10 follies is a good number and if one of them are your baby to be you may have had your best birthday yet but just don't know it yet. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!!

Zeka, Day 21 is the normal down-reg day but I have heard of quite a few others who have started earlier and Dr. Gorgy actually told me to start on Day 19 this time as my period is sometimes a couple of days early and it just means that you know you are definitely down-regulated and can start stims. as soon as possible after AF comes.

Mousky, Sher is very opinionated. I also talked about Sher's protocol to Gorgy and Gorgy felt as I wasn't a poor responder it wasn't needed. However, we agreed we'd measure my LH through stimms. and I would take cetrotide if needed i.e. if it was a but high. Gorgy also was happy to support Sher's reco. on using viagra pessaries to thicken my womb lining (that I have just managed to get from a New York Pharmacy that SIRM use-Thanks Choice for telling me where you got them!). Sher was also clear with me on his views on the Greek tests but he did think I had infection due to my miscarriages. Frankly I don't care which it is as the reality is I have had raised NKs/cytokines without a DQ Alpha match and now I don't following antibiotic treatment, so I believe I had 'some kind of infection'. Interestingly though after a detailed history taking by Toth it is highly likely my Mum had C when pregnant with me (she had an ectopic after me, my Dad was diagnosed with STDs while she was pregnant with my sister and she was hospitalised to prevent pre-term labour, she was finally diagnosed with C after then but probably not treated robustly enough as her next baby was a still birth at 6 months). I also am 40% deaf at the age of 37 that no-one could explain as early deafness does not run in the family and this could be due to the infection at birth. Re: Belgian NHS, if you lack faith in it why not just go somewhere else and pay privately. Penny at Serum is much cheaper than the UK and uses 'mild stimulation' protocols as she belives in quality over quantity.

Ells, I'm not sure when Akvil goes. Good luck on sorting the flare out.

Agate, sending you lots of calming, relaxing thoughts   

Hugs to everyone else,   

AFM, I'm currently down-regulating and waiting for my AF, my NKs and cytokines are looking fine, just had a pooled donor LIT in Athens so I am set to go.

Diane x


----------



## Mandchris

Hi all
Just after a little advice, as my signature shows i need full works!  I am due to have FET on 31st july - currently trying to delay my af til 10th july.  Anyone have a clue when i start Prednisilone? I was thinking day 5 of starting oestrogen tablets, also Gestone ?
Thanks
Mandy xxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## agate

Thanks Diane.  What I don't get about Dr Sher and his views on C are that he is saying (SIRM forum post today) that the uterus is essentially a sterile environment (he says that washes of the uterus in studies reveal no bug content)- and that C is only a problem if its cervical/vaginal- but that makes no sense because a) bugs like C and G clearly do cross the uterine environment because they go through it on their way to the tubes where they cause scarring/blockage etc, b) if C in pg was only an issue when the baby passed through the cervix on birth, how could C cause the increase in mc and stillbirths that is very clearly documented c) if it was true that C cannot reside in the uterus because its 'sterile' then how come its shown up in several studies in biopsy samples and d) if the uterus is so 'sterile' why would the body need defences like uNKs?  I have tried putting extra questions on this to him before and asking him to comment on studies of biopsy specimens but he didn't reply - so it feels pointless asking him again, but his view seems illogical to me.

Mandchris: my GUESS would be pred 7-14 days before ET.  Gestone 3-5 days before ET.


----------



## SaffronXXX

Just popping into say hi! 

Sarah -  I'll be praying for your super eggs for EC this week X
Diane -  It's good to hear your NK and cytokines results are coming back fine. I've just had my AF and will on stimm from monday (hopefully) so you are not far behind  I'll tell the witch to pack her bag and come to your door asap!

A couple of questions to those who had paternal LIT, regarding the pre-tx tests DH should have? Well, Akvil gave me the list of the tests (HIV Hep c etc) but how many of you managed to get these done on NHS? If so how long did they take to come back?? I am thinking of taking the list to our GP to see if he can help?

Hope you are having a nice lazy Sunday. Hugs to you all X


----------



## agate

Saffron: I think a lot of GP's are happy to do the tests - except maybe the HTLV ones because they are less common.  The main snag is that they have to be less than 30 days old on the day of LIT (in the UK)- and tests on the NHS can take anything from 1-3 weeks - so you might well manage to get 1 round of LIT done before the tests expire but  probably not any more - and I'd wonder if the GP would let you repeat the tests so soon - if you are having LIT outside the UK, the timing of the tests doesn't matter.


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies 

Ells how you doing lovely   

Diane - you sound like your well organised youve done the works this time its been a long haul for you   

Agate - hope your keeping well 

Lou - how are you my lovely friend hope your all ready for stimms 

Sarahh - happy belated birthday for yesterday 

Berry - poor you it sounds sore   

Hope all you girls ive missed having good weekend 

Ladies im after some advise i bought  my whey protein from health shop do i start it when i start stimming something like the day before ive bought strawberry flavour hope its nice    also is it mon / tues are those the days i can get  my LAD retested i phoned DR G yesterday and he said hes away on the 26th monday so ive got to book the 27th for my IVIG so ive got to wait for akvile to book it monday she wasnt in on saturday i missed her as shes so organised and knows exactly whats what i dont think we realise how much she helps us all till shes not there 

R xxx


----------



## Pigloo

Ratsy - I started my protien shakes on my last tx when I started stimming and it just say lasted me.  I bought the whey to go protien shakes from the Solgar website.  It cost me £20 and to take the shakes for longer would have meant i had to but two tubs. 

P x


----------



## vw22

Akvile – pretty sure she told me she goes on holiday on wednesday 7th. so in monday and tuesday... vx


----------



## ratsy

Hi girls 

DR G told me to ring akvile on monday unless he forgot shes away 

Pigloo- it says on mine with water can i add milk instead and do i stop them when i have e/c is that right thanks 

R x


----------



## ells

Thanks ladies  . I will call her tomorrow and hopefully sort out a px  and [email protected] for Tuesday  .

Ratsy, I took mine all the way through stims and, so long as yours doesnt say anything about pregnancy which it shouldnt, I had during the 2ww every few days as I was getting bored of chicken, egg and tuna fish - for my protein! I am really excited for your hun and I am sure this will be your year!

Hi to everyone else hope you are all well!!!

Ells


----------



## deegirl

Girls - I agree that Akvile is so helpful and nice.  I actually wrote her a little thank you note and gave her a small gift voucher as she's been so patient and helpful.  She really appreciated it.  I think it's nice to recieve thanks where thanks is due, it makes us all feel good!  

Saffron - We got all our tests done with our GP for paternal LIT, I can't remember how long they took as I wasn't in a rush for them but certainly no longer than 3 weeks.  I remember there was a hitch however as not all tests were carried out and DH had to regive his blood for the tests to be carried out fully.  However I agree with Agate as if they cannot be older than 30 days for LIT with Dr G then it could be difficult to coordinate.


----------



## ratsy

Thanks ells im so scared this time i phoned DR G yeterday as i was worried about humira being in my system and did i need another shot and he said i was fine i would be ok what a relief i was stressing out 

Did you take yours with milk as mine says with water and i bought it as i cant drink milk on its own . Do i need to be drinking full fat milk or can i drink semi skimmed as i rather that 

Thanks ells 

Was just looking at your ticker how quick as that gone bet you cant wait   

R xxx


----------



## CLS

Hi Ladies,

Has anyone taken the med Fostimon as I'm in need of some advice.

Dr. G has prescribed 225iu and each box has one vial of 75iu powder and one box of solvent in it. Therefore I need 3 vials of the powder. However I'm not 100% sure about the solvent. Am I right in assuming I only need to use one vial of solvent to mix with the 3 vials of powder? I'm also assuming the injection is in either the stomach or thigh. Is this right??

Any advice welcome thanks!

CLS


----------



## agate

ratsy: go for skimmed milk (less sat fat). you can drink protein shakes all the way through stimm and early pg.  if you are at risk of OHSS you should definitely continue with extra liquid and protein into early pg - as it will help to cushion your body.  if you are not sure whether its nice with milk vs water, just try it and see how it tastes.  It is often worth mixing it in a shaker or whizzing with a blender because lumpy bits can be a bit yuk.  If you find it really disgusting, then stick to drinking water and put the protein powder into, say, home made low fat muesli buns or something like that.

CLS: I THINK its like menopur.  you can use 1 vial of solvent for up to 5 powders.  You inject the solvent into the first powder, dissolve it, hoover it back up into your syringe and then inject it into the next powder, hoover it back up...etc.


----------



## ells

Ratsy,

I did mine with water and with milk (semi skimmed better protein then full fat) - stir it with a knife first to get all the power off the sides of the glass !!!  I had my last shot of humira about 3 weeks before we started stims so you should be absolutely fine.  I know its going really quickly, but I have to warn you the worrying and stressing never stops! 

Dee you are dead right about thanking people, we will be getting her a gift as well as Dr G as we couldnt have done it without either of them!!!

CLS - sorry hun I cant help but i am sure someone will be along really soon who will be able to answer your questions.

Ells


----------



## Zeka

CLS - yes you only need one vial of liquid and then dissolve the Fositmon in the same way Agate describes above. The Argc says max 3 powders to one liquid/per injection but Dr G told me I could have done more when I had 4 vials of Fostimon during my last IUI.


----------



## ratsy

Thanks agate / ells 

Im going to try it with the milk first as i really hate milk so that can be my milk intake aswel 

Ells - Thanks im so pleased i know about humira now and i can imagine the worry dont stop till you have that baby in your arms 

Agate - I wanted to thankyou for my weight loss    since you told me about non saturated fat i havnt had no chocs no cake no bisciuts no high sat anything in about 6 weeks and ive lost 6 IB im soooo pleased so thanks for telling me      

Deegirl - I agree its nice to be appreciated i was going to get her a bottle of wine or chocs and a thankyou card when i go for my IVIG as shes been brilliant to me , 

R xxx


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

Agate, yes I also do not agree with Sher but I give up on trying to make clinicians with a narrow view of the world broaden their horizons, which is partly why I opted to go completely with Mr. Gorgy this time as he at least listens to your views.

CLS, I was on fostimon at ARGC and yes as Zeka said I think they said 3 vials to one solvent.

Ratsy, good luck with the shakes!

Saffron, we asked the NHS about the tests and they said they would do them but then we found out they couldn't do them on time so just got them done at TDL. Good luck with starting the stimms!!!

Hmmmmm, feeling concerned that Mr. G is away on the 26th (thx Ratsy) as I have always needed EC 14 days after starting stimms on my other rounds. My AF is due around the 9th July and usually they start stims. a few days after so I better calculate my dates so he isn't away on the day I need EC but still soon enough that I can have ET before he goes away on 5th August   

Diane x


----------



## sarahh

Hi all,  Saffron - we got DH's screening tests done on the NHS and I have to say that we got the results back within 2 days.  I think it is possible - may be you can persuade your GP to mark it urgent if it is.  

Ells, I asked Qing for the magic potion for colds (green smarties??!!) and she gave me some, thanks    She said you are really lovely and she is seeing you nxt wk - (sure you said the 9th which is Friday?).  I'm back tomorrow for a scan and to decide when EC is.  

Lou b - you must be on stimms now, how you getting on? 

Good luck to all those starting down reg/ stimms.  

So how long is Dr G away for from 5 August?  Is it just the day on 26 July? 

And I'm pretty sure that Akvile is away next week as there was a different lady in with her for a few hours for the last several times I've been in in the last wk or so.  She was filling in on Saturday as Akvile could not get in.  Her name is "Lalla" I believe.  

Can someone remind me why it is important to carry on with protein beyond EC - I know its important for growing nice eggies (or meant to help) but why is important after EC?  And I believe that skimmed milk has more protein in than either semi or full fat milk.  

Right, off to bed as got to get up early for my round trip to London tomorrow (via the local hospital for DH to have his blood taken for the repeat LAD test!).  

Sarah xx


----------



## agate

SarahH - protein after EC is to help prevent OHSS - so its more important if you have a lot of eggs collected.  Skimmed milk has slightly more protein in it than full fat - but there is not much in it - definitely worth going for though because of the lower sat fat (bad for TNFa and NKa).

Ratsy: congrats on your weight loss.


----------



## Pigloo

Hi Ratsy - I always did mine with milk to get the extra protien x


----------



## CLS

Agate, Ells, Diane & Zeka - thanks everyone for your feedback, much appreciated. I have just done my first 3-vial Fostimon injection and it all went fine! Day 1 of stims....many more to go!

Thanks again,

CLS


----------



## SaffronXXX

Thanks girls for the replies.  I'll get DH to pop into GP for app  Good to hear most GPs are happy to do the tests.

CLS - hurray! It'll get easier every day and before you know it, it will be EC day! Well doneX

Sarah- good luck for the trip to London tomorrow.

Diane - hope your dates work out ok. 

Interesting re drinking milk during tx. I had a really bad OHSS and ended up in the hospital for 6 days following ET last time so perhaps I will benefit from drinking milk  

I am a bit freaked out here.  I've been downregging for the past 2 weeks and AF started 2 days ago.  Just been to the bathroom and I could see big big clots on the tissue. I mean, they were like 2 inches in lengths :0 Never seen anything like this except when I had m/c. Do you think it is because I had a hysteroscopy 3 weeks ago? Would AF after a hysteroscopy be like this?  ? Or perhaps because of the downregulation I don't remember having this kind of AF last time we had IVFthough.    It's not terribly heavy but really really clotty. Is this normal after a hysteroscopy

Off to Glasgow tomorrow for my baseline scan tomorrow. Really hope we can get stimm started tomorrow!

X


----------



## Diane72

Saffron,

The AF I had after my hysteroscopy & laparoscopy was horrific, huge clots and very heavy bleeding but back to normal now-hope this reassures you

Diane x


----------



## CLS

Kath - I've just caught up on the last 28 pages of the forum since I last properly visited (!)and seen your posting about doing IVF with Dr. Gorgy.

I'm doing IVF with him and have just started stims. I agree with everyone else - while he seems a bit disorganised sometimes, he's very knowledgeable in regards to immune-compromised patients trying to get pregnant! I've found that if I don't understand something or have questions, I make sure I ask him, and not feel harried just because he is behind schedule or busy. I know that it might make him think I'm a bit thick but I'd rather know what's what than leave his office and still have questions. And of course this FF forum is a godsend as it fills in all the missing gaps of information that he doesn't tell you!

For me, the proof is in the pudding - so far all the immune treatment and dereg treatment he has prescribed me has worked a treat. So fingers crossed the same can be said for the IVF treatment.

I hope this helps!

CLS


----------



## Mousky

Busy Sunday   


Loads of luck to the girls who are stimming and d/r      and loads of love to all the preggers   


Diane - thanks for your thoughts   I think I'm still "shopping around" for doctors because except for my cons    I don't feel 100% confident with what I've been told so far. The prob with my cons is he has the limitations imposed by the "system" so I don't even bother to discuss immunes etc. I know that if I call the Beer center (and so on) I'm going to hear a 4th advice/story   But it still comes down to the fact that I have 3 embryos in Belgium that I'm not giving up and they don't have a chance unless I have immunological tx. So there isn't so much to think about and decide. At least, not now.
btw, I love that your NKs/TNF-a are going down but Dr G himself didn't believe you could see a result that quickly. He told me it could take up to a year, after clearing C to see the difference    Penny guaranteed it would be different. I mean, everyone has a different opinion about everything   


Oh, we spoke to Lala last week. I thought Akvile was already gone   


  to all.


----------



## Klingon Princess

Saffron, a really heavy AF is normal when downregging, as its designed to give you a really thin lining which can then be built up by the stim drugs.


----------



## agate

Klingon Princess said:


> Saffron, a really heavy AF is normal when downregging, as its designed to give you a really thin lining which can then be built up by the stim drugs.


not exactly: you can only lose what lining you have to lose. So its very indvidual (depending on anatomy, hormone levels etc) - but yes, the idea is to make sure the whole lining comes away evenly to give you a clean fresh start.


----------



## Dolly Rage

Hello everyone, 
Apologies in advance but I was hoping that I could jump in on your thread again and pick your collective brains for thoughts on my test results. We have our follow-up appointment with Dr G later this afternoon so I asked Akvile to fax them over to me last week and I have been studying hard this weekend - seriously, I felt like I was revising for my biology A-level again.

DQ Alpha Genotype
DH 0101,0102
me 0101,0104
at first we were a little relieved to see that there was only 1 match but after reading the book some more it would seem to indicate that there is very little difference between ones starting 01 so in fact we are in fact quite highly matched. So I am thinking this may mean LIT

Leukocyte antobody Detection
Flowcytometry  negative
T-cells IgM+ 1.4
T-cells IgG+ 6.8
B-cells IgM+ 20.9
B-cells IgG+ 83.7

despite reading as much as I could this weekend I can't interpret these results. Can anyone help (Agate  - I know if anyone can it will probably be you so many thanks in advance  - you are a godsend)

TH1:TH2 intracellular cytokine ratios
TNF-a IL-10 (CD3+CD4+) Result 40.8 Limits 13.2-30.6
IFN-g IL-10 (CD3+CD4+) Result 12.9 Limits 5.8-20.5

So I can see my TNF-a result looks pretty bad  - does this mean Humira?

NK Assay (%killed) Panel
50:1 17.2 Limits 10-40
25:1 12.3 Limits 5-30
12.5:1 6.6 Limits 3-20

IgG conc 12.5 50.1 11.8
IgG conc 12.5 25:1 10.8
igG conc 6.25 50:1 15.3
IgG conc 6.25 25:1 15.1

%CD3 83.2 limits 60-85
%CD19 5.1 Limits 2-12
%CD56 7.2 Limits 2-12
% of CD19+cells,CD5+ 5.9 Limits 5-10

NK assay Intralipid 
50:1 1.5mg/ml 12.0
25.1 1.5mg/ml 7.4

So my reading of this is treating with intralipids would be almost as effective as IviG at getting my NK results down. Am I intrepreting this correctly?


Mycoplasma/ ureaplasma  - both of us negative
Factor II Mutation- prothrombin Factor II G20210A mutation, Factor V Leiden G1691A & MTHFR C677T  - all negative

Lupus tested at Guys and has come back negative - still waiting for the karotyping results

Chylmadia test already came back clear

Now my thoughts on going into this meeting with Dr G is that I would not liek to rush into having treatment  - I would like the chance to change my diet, get fit & healthy and for my stress levels to drop (my last day at work is Wednesday!!) and that this may bring down my NK levels a lttle naturally or am i just being naive?

Are there any other tests that I should have. Should I be asking for a uterine biopsy. Is there anything I can ask for. Its just important that i get as much covered off now whilst I am still at work. I got the good news a few days ago that my healthcare will refund the cost of the tests (£1,990) so it would be good to get any other tests done now whilst I can before I leave on Wednesday. By the way I would urge anyone to read the small print of their healthcare if like me you are lucky enough to have it (for a few more days). Mine stated that fertility treatments would not be funded but investigations would and these tests have all qualified so its always worth asking.

Thanks for your time ladies. I hope in the future I can be of use to some of you so that this isn't always a one way street but all your help is really appreciated.
Thanks
Dolly


----------



## kdb

bookmarking...


----------



## agate

Dolly Rage said:


> DQ Alpha Genotype
> DH 0101,0102 1.1, 1.2
> me 0101,0104 1.1, 1.1
> so for every 4 embryos you make, 2 embryos will basically be a match for you, and all 4 will be pretty close to a match - how much of a problem this is depends on how your body reacts to an implanting embryo
> 
> Leukocyte antobody Detection
> Flowcytometry negative
> T-cells IgM+ 1.4
> T-cells IgG+ 6.8
> B-cells IgM+ 20.9
> B-cells IgG+ 83.7 your LAD is actually pretty good - but because you have a signficant match, Dr G might still recommend LIT - personally I think you should get one of the other ladies on the LIT needed thread to ask Dr T - I think there is a clinic on 13 July - what he thinks and whether there is any point in having LIT and whether you should have pooled donor
> 
> TH1:TH2 intracellular cytokine ratios
> TNF-a IL-10 (CD3+CD4+) Result 40.8 Limits 13.2-30.6 yes this is quite high. I am pretty sure Dr G will advise 2 shots of humira to try to get it down and then a retest to check if you need another 2 shots before Tx
> IFN-g IL-10 (CD3+CD4+) Result 12.9 Limits 5.8-20.5
> 
> NK Assay (%killed) Panel
> 50:1 17.2 Limits 10-40 - this is also elevated - your NKs killed off more than 15% of the target K562 cells in 2 hours
> 25:1 12.3 Limits 5-30
> 12.5:1 6.6 Limits 3-20
> 
> IgG conc 12.5 50.1 11.8 - in a test tube, adding IVIG reduced your NKa down to normal range.
> IgG conc 12.5 25:1 10.8
> igG conc 6.25 50:1 15.3
> IgG conc 6.25 25:1 15.1
> 
> %CD3 83.2 limits 60-85
> %CD19 5.1 Limits 2-12
> %CD56 7.2 Limits 2-12
> % of CD19+cells,CD5+ 5.9 Limits 5-10 (all looking good... to me, this looks consistent with identified issue being alloimmune - DQa match rather than autoimmune)
> 
> NK assay Intralipid
> 50:1 1.5mg/ml 12.0 - adding intralipids also brought your NKa down to the normal range.
> 25.1 1.5mg/ml 7.4
> Mycoplasma/ ureaplasma - both of us negative
> Factor II Mutation- prothrombin Factor II G20210A mutation, Factor V Leiden G1691A & MTHFR C677T - all negative
> 
> Lupus tested at Guys and has come back negative - still waiting for the karotyping results
> 
> Chylmadia test already came back clear
> 
> Now my thoughts on going into this meeting with Dr G is that I would not liek to rush into having treatment - I would like the chance to change my diet, get fit & healthy and for my stress levels to drop (my last day at work is Wednesday!!) and that this may bring down my NK levels a lttle naturally or am i just being naive? I would drop saturated fats and try and lose any belly fat to help your TNFa - but the DQa match is probably significant - so you may still need quite aggressive tx to get your TNFa/NKa down - but every little helps!
> 
> Are there any other tests that I should have. Should I be asking for a uterine biopsy. Is there anything I can ask for. Its just important that i get as much covered off now whilst I am still at work. I got the good news a few days ago that my healthcare will refund the cost of the tests (£1,990) so it would be good to get any other tests done now whilst I can before I leave on Wednesday. By the way I would urge anyone to read the small print of their healthcare if like me you are lucky enough to have it (for a few more days). Mine stated that fertility treatments would not be funded but investigations would and these tests have all qualified so its always worth asking. you probably wouldn't learn much from a uterine biopsy - because you already know you probably need humira - and it is uncomfortable but if you want to get it whilst you have cover then that makes sense (needs to be done about 2 days before AF though). If you haven't had a proper look at your uterus and tubes (hysteroscopy and lap - I'd ask about that - that's an expensive test. You will need a TB gold test for TB before you can start humira. did you get your thyroid function and insulin resistance tested (often you can get that at your GP - but not always).


hope this helps.


----------



## Dolly Rage

Thank you so, so much Agate, that's really helpful &  thanks also for the very speedy response, I am sat in the surgery now waiting for our appt & it's brilliant to have that info before we go in.


----------



## ann69

Hi
I have had my DQalpha results back could someone help me interpret them please?

Me:
0102, 0102

DH:
0301, 0501

Is this good or bad?

My hidden C test is also negative.
have arranged a follow up face to face a week tomorrow to discuss options, but just wondered how others foudn the phone consultations - is it worth considering one instead as we have to travel a good way to get there.


----------



## agate

Ann: that's pretty good. no matches. paternal LIT will probably be your first choice and there is no chance of making an embryo with you DH that is a match for you - so no chance of developing alloimmune sensitisation to your embryos.  

I had most consults by phone - but it is easier in some ways to face to face - because you aren't on speaker phone and can tell that you've got Dr G's attention but I guess it depends how comfortable you are with what you think you need to get out of the appointment - so if you are very organised and basically already more or less know where you think you are going then a phone consult is probably going to be fine.


----------



## Pigloo

Hi Saffron - I had some 'breakthrough' bleeding today (10 days after starting D/R) I phoned clinic and she said it was fine and not to worry it just meant I would have a nice thin lining and that the buserelin was doing its job.

Pigloo x


----------



## Kitkat1

Thanks CLS, that's good to hear your thoughts on Dr G. His success rates are apparently 50-55% (live birth rate), so that's pretty impressive! I think we will go with him and as you say, this site is great for finding out any info he doesn't tell us. 

Hope the rest of your stims go well.

Kath


----------



## berry55

OHHHH I'M SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ANNOYED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

i got  a phone call today to tell me that my LAD tests were not able to be done as when the blood arrived at the lab DH cells had died. So they want him to have his done again and they r gonna freeze mine. Never knew that could be done. 

xxxxxxxxx


----------



## agate

yes berry. the lad test measures the antibodies in your serum against your DH's white cells.  antibodies are proteins so are not alive and can therefore be frozen - but white cells are alive so need to be fresh.  That's the reason why your blood gets sent off in a yellow top SST tube whereas your DH's blood needs to be in green top lithium heparins (and why they need more of it than your blood).  Either the blood took more than 48 hours to get to chicago, or it was refrigerated, or it got too hot - any of those could result in not enough cells making it there alive. 

Live cells are crucial for NKa, cytokine ratio and your DH's part of the LAD.  They are not necessary for DQa or your part of the LAD.


----------



## Dolly Rage

hi, 
just an update following appt with Dr G. Agate you were spot-on with him prescibing 2 shots of Humira to bring down my tnf-a......I should be giving you the £90 consult fee! He's not suggesting that we try LIT yet for the DQ alpha match as he thinks my good LAD results are offsetting this so we're putting that to one side for now to think about again in future if there is no success with other treatments. 

So that was pretty much it really. I had my blood taken for the TB test and was given  sheet of paper listing places to buy the Humira. Dr G said one of his patients had done it for him  - I'm guessing someone from here. I just wanted to check that its still upto date - is Healthcare at Home still the cheapest - I tried looking at the thread about where to buy cheap drugs but it seemed to be mostly about Gonal F. BTW has anyone ever persuaded their normal  GP to write them a prescrition for the Humira - just wondering if it is worth a try - as the way I look at it elevated tnf-a levels are not good for general health. My understanding from Dr Beers' book is that there are also other non-fertility complications which may arise.

I also had blood tests done for Thyroid & Insulin. Though am not sure how valid my insulin results will be because I'm not sure if it will be a fasting or none fasting test. I had breakfast at around 7.30 am and than had eaten nothing else all day before my blood was taken at 4.30 - this was pure fluke as I just hadn't had time to get lunch as had to leave work early to get to our 3.30 appt. But I had drunk 2 cups of coffee with milk (no sugar) (I know, I know I shouldn't be drinking coffee but my plan is to be good once I finish work) so am not sure if this will effect the results.

Agate  - thanks for the suggestion about the hyst & lap - thankfully I had this done at Guys about 18 months ago and everything was ok except for a cycst which I had removed and was tested and verified as benign.

thanks again for all your help. Sprinklings of baby dust to you all
Dolly


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies

Does anyone know how much IVIG and ILS is from [email protected] ive got to have my first IVIG with [email protected] as DR G will be away when i need mine I managed to get to speak to akvile and she said DR G is away the 26 / 27/ 28 / of july she said DR askander is that his name  can do it on the 27th but it wont be till 3pm which is abit late for me i live in wales so long journey home so i said il just do both at [email protected] is it much price difference than DR G

Also i was going to re -test my lad on the 27th same time as i was having IVIG do you girls think i should still be re-tested as i wont be having another LIT as i havnt got time i was going to go for another LITif i needed if i got a bfp what do you girls think appreciate some advise thanks 

Berry fumin or what all that and still no results    hope next lot goes well for you lovely

Girls akvile away as from tommorow it was last day today she is away for 2weeks  i told her were all missing her already she laughed

R  xxx


----------



## ells

Ratsy,

IVIg £1435.64 and IL £285 (and pence but cant remember exactly). [email protected] are def cheaper then having it at Dr G's, I think for IVIg its just over £200 difference and about £55 on IL's. The added bonus too is that you can stay home or have it done at work if you can.

On the LAD retest, if it were me I wouldnt worry about a retest at this point and wait until you get your BFP  , given that you dont have time to get another LIT done before tx. I dont know what everyone elses view would be but I wonder whether it may change after ET anyway, once your body is responding to your embies IYSWIM

Ells


----------



## agate

Dolly Rage said:


> So that was pretty much it really. I had my blood taken for the TB test and was given sheet of paper listing places to buy the Humira. Dr G said one of his patients had done it for him - I'm guessing someone from here. I just wanted to check that its still upto date - is Healthcare at Home still the cheapest - I tried looking at the thread about where to buy cheap drugs but it seemed to be mostly about Gonal F. BTW has anyone ever persuaded their normal GP to write them a prescrition for the Humira - just wondering if it is worth a try - as the way I look at it elevated tnf-a levels are not good for general health. My understanding from Dr Beers' book is that there are also other non-fertility complications which may arise.


If you can satisfy ASDA that the humira is for fertility - they MIGHT do it for cost price. otherwise [email protected] does seem to come out consistently cheaper and they are very organised for sending out refrigerated drugs (humira is very sensitive to temperature). The NHS will usually only prescribe humira if you meet particular criteria for rheumatoid arthritis or Crohn's - unless you have crippling health symptoms related to elevated TNFa I think your chances of getting it would be be very low - as it is a very expensive drug.

Ratsy: ILs is about £285 with [email protected] IVIG price depends on your weight -its about £180 cheaper if you are closer to 65kg than to 70kg+. Its usually about £70 (ish) cheaper than with Dr G but it does vary depending on how much you need. Make sure your IVIG Px has details of the premed (usually piriton) as Dr G sometimes forgets and [email protected] can be picky about that. Why don't you do the LAD by post? - if you do need another one in early pg, the sooner you find out the better as organising it (as you know) can be a hassle. I'd get on with it as soon as its 4 weeks (or more) after your last LIT.


----------



## ratsy

Thanks Ells/ Agate 

Akvile is faxing the px off what is the piriton for will they tell me if its on there if its not what shall i do 

Im to scared to do the lad test i dont even know how i go about it what do i do it seems so scarey 

Thanks 

R    xxx


----------



## Pigloo

Agate - Do you need Piriton/Premed for intralipids as nothing on my px?

Thanks
Pigloo x


----------



## Pigloo

Me again - I have just been chatting with another girl on one of the other boards about Gestone and I was asking how she administered it etc (I have watched a clip on You Tube) 

I was explaining that I have received my px from Dr Gorgy but won't have a nurse to show me how to do it, my clinic don't know I am seeing Dr G so just wondering if any of you other girls have been in this boat/how did you know what you were doing?


Pigloo x


----------



## ann69

Agate - thanks for your reply as always.
I'm confused though that the LAD results were rubbish and the DQa were ok, do I def need LIT then. I wouldn't be able to get it with Dr G til end of August and I'm due to start teatment in 2 weeks - am I silly not to postpone again?

I'm tempted by the phone consultation but if I want prescriptions and real clarification about the LAD results and plan of care I guess I'd feel happier sat in front of him!


----------



## ann69

Also, can prescriptions be broken down on separate sheets so you can pick and choose where to get bits from?
and one final thing - how soon in advance do you need to arrange intralipids with [email protected]? or could I get the stuff and get one of the nurses to give it to me in work?!


----------



## ratsy

Hi pigloo

My clinic told me best way to do it was to get a chair stand in front of it put your foot up on chair to stretch your muscle and inject into that part of    she said to inject in the muscle just above your bum if you got fatty bit like me just at top of cheek whatever you do dont put ice on it before or after 

Hope this helps it looks more scarey than it actually is i didnt mind them id choose them over pessaries anyday 

R    xx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Pigloo - re gestone, I stand up in front of a full length mirror (I'm single so I'm doing the injections myself rather than someone else injecting me) and then divide my buttock into 4 quadrants and inject into the upper/outer quandrant (sounds odd but makes sense if you imagine yourself drawing the horizontal/vertical lines)

Not sure why Ratsy says on no account ice before or after - I always ice before to numb the injection site so the needle goes in painlessly - I wasn't aware this was a problem and I def prefer it iced to not. Afterwards I just give it a good rub to help break down the progesterone (otherwise it can get a bit 'lumpy')

I watched a youtube vid where the girl lay down on her bed and injected that way but I couldn't get to grips with that and find the standing up approach works best for me...you might need to experiment with a few different ways!

Good luck!
Suitcase
x


----------



## Dolly Rage

sorry to be annoying and post another question, especially as the answer might be already be on here somewhere, but if I want to buy drugs from ASDA do i just go into my local branch that has a pharmacy or is there a central number i can call first to discuss. thanks


----------



## Pigloo

Thanks girls - I will take on board your suggestions.

Dolly - When DP and I needed to buy our antiBs privately from Sainsburys I just rang the local store first to discuss and ensure they would accept a private px and then I went down and got the meds.  I guess you could ring your local Asda pharmacy and ask them, if you need to ring a central number they would put you through but I would have thought it would be local.

P x


----------



## agate

ratsy said:


> Akvile is faxing the px off what is the piriton for will they tell me if its on there if its not what shall i do
> 
> Im to scared to do the lad test i dont even know how i go about it what do i do it seems so scarey


if the px is going straight to [email protected] double check it with them - to make sure there is no hitch when Dr G is going to be away.

it is very straightforward to do the LAD by post. You just phone akbil and pay for it and ask for her to arrange post pack. the post pack arrives in the post. you book a blood draw appt for you and your DH on a monday or tuesday afternoon and get 3 green top tubes (from the pack) filled for your DH and 1 yellow top tube filled for you. then you take it straight to the post office (before last pick up time) and send it to TDL special delivery next day before 9am (about £13). TDL then add it to their fedex on tues/wed.

Ann: Px can only be broken down if you get separate Px's written for separate things. You can cross off anything you don't want off an existing Px but can't split a Px between different pharmacies.

You can get intralipids from some pharmacies (inc boots, I think) on prescription. You don't need [email protected] to do it but you do need a nurse/doc who is prepared to do it for you and has the dripstand and standby epi-pen. You also need to get hold of the extra saline (for dilution), 50ml syringes for mixing, cannula and giving kit. its best to allow at least a week to organise it with [email protected] although they can often do it with less notice than that.

DQa and LAD are related but are not the same. If you have never been pg before and have a low LAD it MAY rise normally (as it does in normal ladies) when you do get pg, but if you have been pg before and its still low its more likely that you are someone who just doesn't make LAD antibodies very well - which is where LIT may help - as it should stimulate your body to make the antibodies. Ladies with repeat pg failure tend to have lower LAD levels than 'normal' ladies. DQa mainly tells you how difficult it may be to get the right response from LIT and what level of immune response you MIGHT get in pregnancy. No-one can tell you whether you will get pg without LIT - it has to be your decision.

Pigloo: no, allergic reactions to ILs are very rare - so no premed. I never did my own gestone shots - I got the nurse at the IVF clinic to show my DH and he did them. You do need reasonable finger strength to be able to do them on your own which I don't have - I even have problems doing my clexane shots sometimes and that's a much smaller syringe. You could phone your clinic and say that you would like to try gestone this time and could they show you how to do it? or maybe the nurse at your GP could show you? I found warming the gestone in my bra for a few minutes and rubbing it in afterwards with a clean cotton pad the best way to stop it stinging and to avoid a lumpy butt.

Dolly: no you can just walk in to your asda pharmacy (or phone up the local store) - for a lot of drugs you will need a return trip as they may have to get them in specially for you. they guarantee to sell fertility drugs for cost price - but its not clear how they define 'fertility drugs' as far as drugs like clexane that have a more common non-fertility purpose are concerned.


----------



## ratsy

Hi suitcase of dreams 

I was told before not to ice it as it makes your    lumpy dont know how true it is but since being told ive never done it   

Agate thanks for help il go to my docs tomo and ask them if i can have blood drawn in afternoons im sure my clinic for bloods is a morning clinic it would be its me    forgot to say do i take the piriton on the day of IVIG or couple of days before 

Pigloo - goodluck with gestone my dp does mine im a wimp   

Thanks for all the info girls i havnt a clue


----------



## Bling1975

Has anyone sent blood direct to Rosalind Franklin? I am trying to fill in the fedex paperwork and I am unsure about a lot of things and their homepage is down. What address and contact info did you use. Did you fill in a tax number?

I am doing the LAD test, do I need separate papers for me and my husband or do I only put my name on it?

Please please help


----------



## agate

ratsy: it should say on the Px but I think its usually some just before and the rest after (but I've never had a premed personally -as I did my first one at Dr G's and then after that because I'd been ok, [email protected] accepted that I was ok to skip it - saves another £25 or something like that).

Bling: sorry haven't done it.


----------



## Pigloo

Ok, just watched a few girls on You Tube doing their Gestone shots and most of them use a big needle to draw up and then a smaller one to inject.

Dr G has just wrote on my px:

Gestone inj 100mg/day deep IM from day after egg collection + 11/2 inch needles and 7 ml syringes for 20 days.

Doesn't look like he has given me the two different sized needles?...........  

Also if its 100mg what will that measurement be on th 7ml syringe?

DPs cousin is a mdiwife so i guess I could ask her to show me, but I want to be sure i know exactly what i am drawing up in syringe and that I have the right needles.


P x


----------



## sarita36

Hi all,

Sorry to jump in with a quick question but I just had an appt with Dr G today and started D/R with the idea of starting stimming next week - but then I read in one of your posts that he'll be away on July 26th, 27th and 28th which is EXACTLY the time I'm likely to have E/C and poss E/T. I'm so annoyed he didn't tell me - what on earth should I do? I've only taken 1 injection of Supercur and could just stop tomorrow and try the ARGC next week. 

Any advice appreciated as having made the tough choice to go with Dr G to find out he won't even be there when I'd need to be likely doing EC etc seems ridiculous. Last time I stimmed for 10 days so if I start next week my EC would likely be the 26th - I assume he wouldn't do that anyway but still??


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

Sarita, how annoting about 26/27/28- I have the same fears worries as I can expecting to start stimms beginning next week pending my AF showing up. You can down-regulate a bit longer and start stimms. later but then we also risk the fact that he is going away 5th August    As soon as my AF comes I'll have the conversation with him.

Pigloo, we only use 1 needle (the large green one). Presumably you have a 100mg vial (?) or 2 x 50mg vials so you just suck up the whole lot and don't need to worry about measurements. I just read the leaflet and didn't have a  nurse show me/us. MY DH does it for me and sticks to the upper quadrants of the    . He does a small pull back to check he hasn't hit a blood vessel and then plunges it in. I personally always use ice to numb the area beforehand and find it gave me alot of relief (5 cycles worth).


Hugs to everyone else

D x


----------



## summerglory

Hello am new to the site. Wanted to ask advice about whether to go to ARGC or Dr gorgy for immune testing. 
Bit of background I'm 38 have beautiful dd of 2yrs 9 months been ttc for 2 years, was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Artritis a yr ago & am sure this is why am not conceiving. Am on 7.5mg prednisolone a day. 
Any advice greatly appreciated!


----------



## agate

Pigloo said:


> Gestone inj 100mg/day deep IM from day after egg collection + 11/2 inch needles and 7 ml syringes for 20 days.


you can buy needles without a Px e.g., from medisave.co.uk or medisupplies.co.uk - a box of 100 is about £5 - worth buying so you have plenty. you can use the same size for drawing up and for injecting. using 2 needles means its slightly more sterile and there is no chance that you have blunted the needle on the bottom of the vial before you jab - but its not essential - just comforting. if you are shopping buy a box of 100 preinjection swabs - about £1 and maybe a bottle of hibiscrub (surgical wash you you can get your hands really clean for injecting and more importantly for inserting pessaries etc). you can also buy whatever syringes you need if the chemists you use don't stock them - my local chemist doesn't keep them so it was easier and cheaper just to buy them separately.

As Diane says, you don't need to use the measurements on the syringe for gestone - you suck up the whole contents of the vial - you just need a syringe that is big enough to get it all in with a bit of headroom so you've got space to suck up a bit of air 'by mistake' which you tap up to the top and then squeeze away before you jab. For 100mg you could get away with a 2/2.5 ml syringe - because they still have more than twice the room you need (and they are cheaper) - about £6 for 100.

Summerglory: argc and Dr G are pretty different. I haven't had Tx with both, but based on what I have heard from others....if you want to do your ivf cycle with argc, then you can have your immune tx there - they offer good attention to detail for ivf and most (not all) of the immune testing and treatments that Dr G does. if you want to have just testing and immune Tx then ARGC will not offer that. If you want access to intralipids and LIT and to start drips during stimms (as per the Beer protocol), then Dr G offers that (he offers everything immune that there is as far as I can see) but ARGC does not (yet?) If you have ideas of your own and want to pick and choose what you want to do (e.g., you want to try a stimms protocol recommended for your issues from elsewhere - or test for something new), then Dr G is probably more flexible. Dr G is very caring and tries everything to help you but he works more or less on his own without the back up of a big clinic and fixed procedures - so its more individual and flexible but it takes a while to get to know him sometimes and you have to be organised and on the ball to make sure you find out everything you need to know (but the girls on here are pretty good at helping you find your way). So I can't tell you which clinic to choose (although obviously I am happy with Dr G) but with IF and RA, personally I would expect something treatable to show up in your immune tests. good luck with your decision.

Bling: the RFU website is working again.


----------



## kdb

Hi girls, wow I am learning so much on this thread... Am copying and pasting madly into a Word doc for future ref!

Random question... the Mr A Eskander that works with Dr G at FGA, is he "Mr Adel Aziz Eskander"?

thanks


----------



## Pigloo

Thanks my lovelies - if ever in doubt theres always comforting advice to be found on here you are all stars xxx

Pigloo x


----------



## SaffronXXX

I am a bit nervous about doing clexane and gestone jabs myself.... I am sure they are not as bad as I imagine!

AF has come and gone and no more clot nightmare! Glad to know that it is pretty normal after hys. Thanks girls.

Re ILs prescription - if any of you are cycling with your local IVf clinic but getting immune tx from Dr G, it is worth asking your clinic if they can provide/administer ILs. Our clinic has been fab and agreed to do it for 200 GBP so we saved 85 GBP. It's worth a try  I am booked in for follicle scan, blood and ILs next Monday in our clinic. It's going to be a long day! 

Hugs to everyone X


----------



## agate

Sarita: phone him now and ask his receptionist to check what arrangements he is making and whether he is going to make himself available if your EC and ET fall on those days.

Kdb: http://www.gynae-centre.co.uk/about-us/dr-eskander/
http://www.gynae-centre.co.uk/about-us/dr-eskander/
(not FF endorsed links etc.....)

and from GMC website:

GMC Reference Number 2675035 
Given Names Adel Aziz 
Surname Eskander 
Gender Man 
Status Registered with a licence to practise; this doctor is on the Specialist Register 
Primary Medical Qualification 
MB ChB 1970 University of Alexandria 
Full Registration Date 27 Oct 1980 
Specialist Register entry date 
Obstetrics and gynaecology From 10 Feb 1997 
GP Register entry date This doctor is not on the GP Register

so it must be the same bloke because the records say that he qualified in egypt in 1970.


----------



## SaffronXXX

Ann - [email protected] needs min of 3 days notice and yes, you need to specifically ask Dr G for a separate ILs px when you speak to him. I ended up asking him after he wrote the first px as everything incl ILs was on one px. 

SX


----------



## Pigloo

Hi Girls

Dr G wouldn't re-write my px once he had posted me the first one with everything on the one px  Anyhoo never mind!!!!!!!!

I have just phoned [email protected] and asked if I need to post my px now, explaining I will need Intralipids around 25th July which will be my day 5 of stimms (it falls aon a saturday so they may have to come the monday on day 7 of course things could change depending on my baseline scan. The girl there said I need to post it today as they need to give the nurses 48 hours notice to do the drips.

Also, do you think if I asked them they would be able to show me how to do the Gestone? I think I know now how to do it after the advice on here/watching you tube but may as well get a demo from the nurse if i can.

Do they stay with you for 3 hours..thats a long time for them to sit!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Do you think I should send the px recorded delivery?*

Pigloo x


----------



## agate

pigloo: if you send it 'signed for' it won't cost as much.  but otherwise you could take a photocopy and send it 'regular'.  the nurse might agree to show you how to do the gestone - but possibly not as there is probably some whole insurance/health and safety thing.  ivf clinic nurses will be the best at it because they do it all the time. 

yes they stay the whole time - but you can both move around if you need to (you just shove the drip stand around with you).


----------



## ells

Pigloo,

The last IL drip I had the [email protected] nirse was with me for just over 2 1/2 hours but I suspect with my IVIG today it will be a little longer!

On the gestone, could you ask your nurse at your GP surgery to do it/show you? I had all mine done M-F at the surgery and then DH did them at the weekends. I can help to have a little heat pad to rub the area afterwards to help the gestone 'melt in' . I was fortunate that i didnt bruise to badly but it does get a bit sore after a couple of weeks but all worth it!

I also dont know if you should do this or not but I have photo copied Dr G PX's and faxed the copied one over to [email protected] - taking off the things I didnt need from them and keeping the orginal to take to another chemist. I havent had a issue with it yet but as I said I dont know if its 'allowed'.

Hi to everyone else hope you are all well.

Ells


----------



## kdb

Thanks Agate, I've checked the GMC number and it's the same as the Dr E on the BUPA site.


----------



## Pigloo

Hi girls

I have photocopied my px and I'm going to send the original (signed for as they requested the original) 

I will get sorted with Gestone - it looks simple enough on You Tube, but scary..eekkkk!  DP going to ask his cousin who is a midwife if shes heard of them before and then she can help  me with my technique otherwise I'll just go for it!

luv to all 
Pigloo x


----------



## thumbelina

Hi ladies   

I hope you are all well.

Sorry but I havent had a chance to go through all the messages so no personals today.

I have just been let out from hospital.

Unfortunately it is bad news from me. My hormone levels stopped doubling as they should and I had a lot of pain. I was admitted into the early pregnancy unit as they thought I had an ectopic. They scanned me on Wednesday and saw two small irregular shaped sacs with nothing in plus I had ohss. My levels doubled properly yesterday and they called me in for a scan. One of the sacs was reabsorbed by my body and the other has grown a little but still too small and has nothing in. They suspect a blighted ovum. I need to go back on Monday for a scan to confirm. Then I would need to stop taking my meds, cyclogest and immune and prepare for miscarriage.

Life is so cruel. I cant believe I would have had twinnies.

I called Dr G while I was in there  for some sort of reassurance, to get his opinion and what we would do different next time but he was so unsympathetic, took 6 hours to call me back and made me feel like I was a hindrance to him. I know he is brilliant at his job and we have never been this far before but I feel like I am losing faith in him. He said he didnt have any idea what happened and next time he would do an infection screen and recheck my lad. Other than that he would keep things the same.

I just dont know where to go from here.

Sorry for the depressing me post.

I hope everyone is well.

Agate - I hope things are going well for you.

    and     to all.

Love Thumbelina xxx


----------



## Zeka

Thumbelina, just wanted to send you big hugs and hope that you get better news at your next scan. Sorry for your bad news and upset with Gorgy today. 
Zeka x


----------



## thumbelina

Thank you Zeka. xxx


----------



## Clarebaby

Thumbelina, so so sorry


----------



## agate

Thumbelina I am so sorry - such awful news - there is nothing I can say that will make it better, I know.

did you get any explantion for the pain you experienced?

unfortunately, its really hard to know what causes a blighted ovum - its supposed to be either a genetically inadequate embryo, immune/infection attack or a clotting issue.  Clotting should have been ruled out by the clexane (as that is usually a reliable fix).  Unless you can get the tissue tested (it may too early for that to be possible, I don't know?).  The fact that you had 2 sacks grow and neither progressed (and you had good quality blasts and a big response to stimms) does make me think its less likely to be genetic - but that's impossible to prove.  

So, although it sounds like Dr G was very low on TLC for you today - he has probably said the same as I would think, from my amateur perspective.

1) you may need to look at LAD again - particularly because of your DQa match - it could have triggered an immune surge if one of those embryos was a match for you - that, unfortunately, could have written them both off - even if the other one wasn't matched.  The fact that there were 2 sacs makes me think that is possibly what happened - but there is no way to know.  If you were with Dr Sher - I THINK he would suggest transferring only 1 at a time (basically doing serial FETs after fresh - in the hope that you put back just one non-matching embryo - with your fab embryo quality and being young, this might be an option).  I believe Dr Sher would also be advocating ILs every 2 weeks at least until you have retested your NKa in pg.
2) if I were you I would have the infection screening - quite a few ladies seem to be finding that (unspotted) bugs are the problem - and once they are eradicated - bingo, finally, successful pg.  That could also explain why you are able to donate eggs successfully but not succeed yourself - so again, its seems quite a likely possibility - and infections like chlamyida are just so incredibly common - just that some ladies immune systems cope with them better than others.
3)some docs think that having hormone levels that go too high (due to lots of response to stimms) can compromise the quality of your lining so that the embryo doesn't get a good enough blood supply.  I think that's less likely than 1 and 2 but if I were you, I'd be trying to ask for a more gentle protocol next time - maybe a short protocol - possibly even agonist/antagonist conversion - particularly if there is a PCOS element to your response.

I'm sorry I can't wave a magic wand and fix this for you.  Its all so unfair.

A x


----------



## thumbelina

Thank you Agate xxx

They said the pain I had was due to ohss.

When I asked the reason for blighted ovums they said chromosome/ genetic problems to but like you said the lady I dontated to was fine and gave birth to twins and the blast quality was perfect. I told them that and said I suspected an immune response but they rubbished it and said not to blame myself. to lose both of them there must be another reason. On Monday I will ask if I can have the tissue tested but I suspect it may be too early. I was having intralipids with dr g every 2.5 weeks. He said he thinks it could be because I never got to get the second LIT due to the volcano ash. I am going to try and get my lad retested and see what the levels are now to see if this is what caused it. I will also have the virus screen just to put my mind at rest.

Unfortunately we never got any blasts to freeze in the end as there were two brilliant quality but the others were slower and we were told they would not be good enough to freeze so we will have to do a fresh cycle again once we are strong enough. Had we gone for a 3 day transfer we would have had 6 frosties. I guess that is the risk with going to blast.

While I was in hospital they did a swab and blood tests and it came back that I had bacterial vaginosis and high white blood cell count. They have put me on metronizadole. I have been reading reports online that having bv in early pregnancy doubles the risk of miscarrigage before 6 weeks. I just cant understand how my immunes are still high even with the immune tx. I guess as you say if one is a match it can trigger an immune reaction and  cause me to lose both of my babies  - They did blood tests for clotting and that all came back fine. Do you think my body will realise Im no longer pregnant when I stop the pessaries or can this go on for ages. I dont understand why my levels didnt rise much for a while and then yesterday shot up. I guess my body likes being pregnant. I really dont know if I should go for a d&c or wait for nature to take its course. Its all so hard.

Thank you for all your help Agate. You really are a comfort and know ur stuff xxx


----------



## Pigloo

Thumbelina - I'm so sorry to hear your news hun. 

As always Agate has given you some good advice.  I don't know anything about LAD but I would say have the infection screening done.  We have had that done and even though our tests came back normal on NHS I tested POSITIVE for Hidden C.  We have been taking AntiBs for last few weeks and finish them tomorrow.  

Your story history sounds vauguely similar to mine..I also donated eggs on my first tx and my recipient got a BFP while i went on to have a chemical preg from the same batch of eggs    that is why i pursued the immunes route.

Sending you lots of love and strength to get through the next few weeks   

Pigloo x


----------



## thumbelina

Thank you Clarebaby and pigloo.

Pigloo, I am so sorry about ur chemical pregnancy. good luck for this tx. I will def get the virus screen done.

Love Thumbelina xxx


----------



## agate

mainstream docs always say its genetics - because they don't want to blame stimms and mostly don't accept immune or even clotting issues as significant.

The BV is potentially significant I THINK for several reasons
- I think I saw something that having BV makes Chlamydia harder to detect and to treat (which is why it has to be treated for first before treating C) - but it may be associated with a higher chance of having C infection.
- as you say, BV is associated with a higher chance of miscarriage. 
- any bug can cause a surge in your immunes - and that might be exacerbated when there is implantation and the trophoblast is trying to grow - a high white cell count can sometimes be normally in pg - it depends which type of cells are high - but it could indicate you are fighting an infection.  If I were you, I would ask Dr G for the greek chlamydia test and make sure you have had swabs for mycoplasma and ureaplasma - and if not, get those done.

mc will usually follow if you stop progesterone but not always.  they will need to keep an eye on you.  there is sometimes good news on repeat scans but not that often in situations like this.

If your LAD is still low despite this pg, I would definitely try and get the LIT sorted - even donor pool in athens if necessary.

I am so sorry.

Pigloo: just to be pedantic - chlamydia, mycoplasma and ureaplasma are all bacteria rather than viruses -  its not important - but if they were viruses, then antibiotics wouldn't help.


----------



## Mousky

Thumbelina - I'm really, really sorry to hear your news     I'm afraid I have nothing wise to tell you or knowledge for that either. However, I was told by Dr Sher, of course this is only HIS OPINION, that the wrong stimms protocol was compromising my chances    (together with lack of immune tx) like Agate says on # 3. I understand you have a DQ-a match and I know this would make everything more difficult.I hope you can identify the problem and treat it next time. I'm really sorry about what happened


----------



## thumbelina

Agate - Thank you so much for all your help.. you have really helped made things clearer and reinforce what I was thinking. I guess I would need to have the lad retest asap so will try and arrange an appointment with dr g. For the c screening would it be best to wait until I have finished the metronizadole as do you think this could interfere with the results? thanks again for your kind words and advice xxx

Mousky - Thank you so much for ur kind words hun. I hope all is going well with you xxx


----------



## agate

thumbelina: you need AF (full flow) to do the C test - so you will probably have finished the flagyl by then anyway.  The swabs for mycoplasma (which I've just noticed can cause BV - but isn't always shifted by metronidazole - sometimes it needs azithromycin or even moxifloxacin - so it is worth testing for AFTER you've finished the flagyl) and ureaplasma, I THINK are done mid cycle (basically any time you are sure there won't be any blood). You can do LAD by post (have blood taken at your GP on mon/tues pm and take immediately to post office for special delivery next day before 9am back to TDL) or at TDL by arranging it with Dr G's receptionist - you don't actually need to see Dr G just to get the test done.  Likewise with the kit for the C test (which you send to greece by fedex).    You can do the swab tests for mycoplasma and ureaplasma through Dr G or MAYBE through your GP (you do need a doc to do the swab - but can possibly send it back by post to TDL if your GP can't provide the test - I am not sure - but TDL/Dr G should be able to confirm) or possibly local GUM (depending if they offer it or not).

I can't imagine how horrribly cheated you must be feeling at the minute.  Its ok to be upset and angry... but if it helps you to know, I think your story will have a happy ending- and if its 'only' a sneaky infection causing all this grief - your prospects are really good if you can pin it down and blast it with the right heavy duty antiBs.

A x


----------



## berry55

does anybody know if akvile is away on holiday just now?? xx


----------



## Louiseb26

Berry she left yesterday for 2 weeks   

Thumbelina - Sending out big   for you lovely.I'm so very sorry...stay strong Hun.Take good care of yourself xx

Lou xx


----------



## berry55

louise- i just called Dr G's office and spoke to her... lol xx


----------



## Saffa77

is there someone covering Akville? I will be needing my results of NK faxed to me on Friday/Saturday then a script from DR G sent to [email protected] -

Sx


----------



## Louiseb26

Berry i was at Dr G yesterday and she said it was her last day. When is she going to be off then? I think it will all go pair shaped when she goes.More stress


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## Saffa77

I just phoned Dr Gs rooms and Akville was still there today is her last day and says there will be someone covering just leave names and phone numbers and your message will be looked into.

Sx


----------



## ells

Thumbelina, I am so sorry to read what you have been going through    .  This process is so cruel but you are strong and you are already looking for the 'answers', this will work for you hun I know it will.  Sending you big hugs   .

Berry, Saffa - the lady covering Akvil from tomorrow is Lala, she was really nice and helpful when I phoned to sort out my px yesterday.

Pigloo - my IVIg took just over 4 hours this afternoon - she even sped up the drip a little at the end - but bloomin long afternoon!  

SarahH, are you in for EC tomorrow?  If so good luck hun!   

Hi to everyone else hope you are all okay.

Ells


----------



## thumbelina

Agate - Thank you so much and thank you for giving me hope xxx

Louiseb26 - Thank you sweetie - How are things going with you tx wise? I want to wish you the best of luck     

Ells - Thank you for your lovely post hun.. Im sitting here in     . I feel so numb yet so emotional at the same time. We went to the caf earlier and I just couldnt stop the tears. They came from nowhere. I have to look for answers because its the only thing that is stopping me from going crazy. I know once I lose it that will be it. I am trying to be strong but finding it soo hard    I have just heard from the clinic and the lady I donated to didnt become pregnant this time so 32 eggs later and ohss I just feel a failiure. The worst thing is morning sickness started yesterday at the same time my body started doubling the hcg properly. I feel as though it is taking the mick out of me  - To top it off I still need to find a new job since being made redundant. We are now penniless. My family said I need to take time out to heal emotionally and financially but my amh dropped by 10 in nine months so I know we dont have time on our side. I need to get a job asap cos even if I get one now it will take at least a year to save for tx and it could even be too late by then as I dont think I could egg share again even if I wanted to.

Aww I hate being so down and I know Im depressing everyone 

Sending everyone lots of love      and fairy dust xxx


----------



## ells

Oh TB     .  Its not a surprise that you are feeling low, depressed and emotional, no one can expect anything else, you have had a terrible time.  I hope that things will fall in to place for you asap, I am sure they will.  I always find that a plan of action helps to move forward.  This cycle I can remember this last year that we would have 6 months out and start again in the end I was quite nervous about starting again and with my results and everything else am glad that I had given myself 9 months to heal both physically and emotionally.  Sending you a massive hug sweetie .

Ells


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## thumbelina

Ells - Thanks hun  xxxx


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## Louiseb26

Thumbelina i wish i was there to give you some cuddles.Don't ever say your a failure,this is not your fault lovely...please don't be hard on yourself. We are always hear to listen and your not depressing anyone...just wish there was more i could do for you.
Take time out for yourself lovely   

Lou xx


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## thumbelina

Louiseb26 - Thank you hunnii   xxx


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## ratsy

Hi ladies 

Thumbelina -       im so sorry to hear your news , And your DEFINATLY not a failure and were all here for you thats what this site is all about the good and bad news weve all been through same things and understand what each other are going through and your not  depressing youve got every right to be down youve had devastating news and you need to talk about it to get your head straight and clear things out ,And get advise so you post on here as much as you want were al here for you through thick and thin lovely    

Louise - Hi missy hows the mood swings mine are raging listen to this my car broke down yesterday and dp said it was my battery so he said he would bump start it in morning and try sort it out after work well 4.50 this morning he comes in bedroom and said youl have to get up and help me well i got to car    with one eye open tried to bump start car trying to be quiet and i pressed brake by accident oh my word he was fumin the way he acted youd have thought id run him over , but no i kept quiet even tho i could have jumped on him and pounded him into the ground and went in crying i feel so annoyed and all on edge , Its awful isnt it these mood swings 

Agate - You were right DR G didnt put pre-med on px i rang jade tonight she said ive got to have it i said shal i get DR G to fax it to you and she said he wont il just have to get him to tell me what i need over phone and buy it over counter so il sort that its not a prob , Ive got one of my usual problems to ask you     i think im starting to flap now its getting nearer i think i just want everything to be right , I asked jade price of IVIG she said its £1,200 something for 25mg and £1,400 something for 30 i asked her what hes given me and she said 25mg im sure thats wrong dose as not being funny im 11stone so im no tiny tot by any means ,Im all worried about that now why cant anything be straight forward   I dont know what to do now i dont like to phone its like im telling him hes made a mistake id feel very rude 

Hope anyone ive missed are all well   

R xxx


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## Pigloo

Ratsy - when you ring healthcare at home do you ask to speak to Jade as I seem to get what sounds like call centre staff? I asked them for a price of Intralipids and they couldn't tell me (they said they could give me the cost of all the other meds though?)  

I was told they would call me back when they go my px.

Pigloo x


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## ratsy

pigloo 

Yes i asked for jade herrington if shes busy she calls you back you go to call centre and then ask for jade she told me today intralipids is £285 

R x


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## Pigloo

Thanks Ratsy   

Thumbelina - My heart goes out to you hun, you need to let yourself grieve and heal but I am sure you will be strong again, don't feel bad about feeling down for a while it is totally understandable and YOU are NOT depressing everyone!!! This is a place to share the good news AS WELL AS support people who are going through a tough time.

Thinking of you honey   

Pigloo x


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## Pigloo

Hi - Full of questions today (i'm getting closer to taking all thses extra meds that Dr G has prescribed   )

I am still toying with the should I or shouldn't  I take Pred.  

Is it absolutely nec to take it if having ILs?

What exactly will it do in addition?

P x


----------



## agate

ratsy said:


> I asked jade price of IVIG she said its £1,200 something for 25mg and £1,400 something for 30 i asked her what hes given me and she said 25mg im sure thats wrong dose as not being funny im 11stone so im no tiny tot by any means ,Im all worried about that now why cant anything be straight forward  I dont know what to do now i dont like to phone its like im telling him hes made a mistake id feel very rude


dose is usually 400mg/kg of your weight (and then you need to round up/down to a whole number of 5g) - so 11 stone is right on the borderline between needing 25g and 30g (and 25g is cheaper!!) I started tx at about 68kg and always had 25g even though during pg, obviously I have crossed over the official line between needing 25g and needing 30g.

Pigloo: yes ask for Jade Herrington in Featherstone office by name. No-one else is as helpful as she is for fertillity drips/humira. I REALLY think you should take pred. It is a low risk drug (taken by hundreds of thousands of people for hundreds of different medical conditions - my memory is fuzzy on this, but I think you will find that more people die from taking paracetamol than from any other drug - so you do need to keep things in perspective). ILs has only been proven to reduce NK killing power, whereas pred can help with inflammation across the board - and you do not know what your body is going to do during implantation and early pg. It is the cheapest, most basic immune Tx drug and many clinics give it (or the equivalent dexamethasone) to all their patients because they believe it works. If you don't believe this, check out the protocols that SIRM use (and bear in mind they are one of the most successful fertility chains in the US). To me, unless you are incredibly immunosuppressed (and bear in mind I am someone who is pretty immunosuppressed from time to time), taking it is a no-brainer.


----------



## Diane72

Thumbelina, so sorry to hear your news     

Diane x


----------



## Pigloo

Agate - Thanks hun, you have convinced me..I will take it!   

Pigloo x


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## sarahh

Morning, just a quick post to say Thumbelina I'm so sorry ro read yr terrible news, my heart goes out to you. Take a day at a time & ido whatever you hav to to heal over time.

Afm I'm just on my way to EC but traffic awful. We've had a wk frm he'll so far just hoping our luck changes soon. Send me lots of good luck ladies! Xx


----------



## ells

SarahH sending you lots and lots of luck.          .I am sure everything will go smoothly now!   

Ells


----------



## niccad

Thumbelina - just read your news and wanted to say how sorry I am      You are definitely not a failure. What happened was out of your control and you did absolutely everything you could to make this work. I hope that you find some answers to what happened xxxxx

Quick question and seeking opinions... just had my immunes redone and am not sure if I should have ILs or not... Would like your thoughts:
50:1  24.2
CD3  87.5
CD19  5.3
CD56  6.0
CD19+5 1.9

I've always had issues with cd56 before so am happy this is nice & low, but am worried about the 50:1 ratio... What do you think? 
Thanks xxxx


----------



## agate

Niccad: if ILs has brought your NKa down before, it should do again, so I THINK you should have ILs... unless you are thinking that IVIg works better for you and you are going to have that instead?


----------



## Pigloo

Hi Niccad - Dr G likes your 50:1 to be under 15%, mine is 21.5% and my blood responded well to intralipids (when mixed in the test tube it brought my levels down to 6.1%) 

Dr G has prescribed me intralipids for this.  He suggested i use both IVIG and ILS but as they responded better to ILs i have just gone for that (cheaper!)

Pigloo x


----------



## niccad

Thanks Agate - I can't have IVIG as I'm allergic - so it's ILs or nothing    Just waiting to get the go ahead from ARGC as don't want to do it behind their backs... How's you?? Not long to go now xx


----------



## ells

Niccard,    glad to see everything is going well with the baby.  I had a simimilar result to you with my retest at 9 weeks and I had IL's which seemed to do the trick.  Hope you get everything sorted out. 

Hi ladies     

Ells


----------



## Klingon Princess

Have another question I'm afraid.. apaprently my  clinic in Czech republic has started offering intralipids and its very cheap there, I'm told 100 euros.  If I'm having FET on day 20 of my cycle, at what point would I actually have the intralipids done?  I'mjust trying to work out what the best option is, as Czech may seem cheaper but if I'm adding in hotels for many more nights than I'd planned on staying, it could actually work out more expensive.  Is it something thats done just a few days before FET or is it much earlier than that?

I havent spoken to Mr Gorgy yet.  I'm having a hysteroscpy and laparoscopy done next week and am waiting for the results of that so I can discuss eveything in one phone call.


----------



## Louiseb26

Sarah wishing you all the best for EC...cant believe its come round so quick. I'm sure your get loads of lovely eggies   

Lou xx


----------



## Newday

K between 7 and 14 
days before tranfer

Dawn


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Klingon - I'm having FET on day 19 and I've had intrallipids twice, once on day 13 and once on day 9..so I suspect hotel costs prob outweigh the lower cost of intrallipids out there....at least that was the case for me and I'm just flying out the night before, doing the ET and flying back that evening - only 1 night hotel....

Suitcase
x


----------



## Pigloo

Hi Girls

I have had my TSh tested and it is 0.03 from 2.48 in 3 weeks







I am on 75mg Levothyroxine. It was a different Dr that called me with results and he (quite rightly said) theres no point checking my levels every 3 weeks and adjusting meds. The Dr I have been seeing has been telling me to come back too soon.

Anyway he has told me to drop my doesage down to 50mg. To be honest it went down from 3.6 to 2.48 on 25mg in space of three weeks and then the dr put me straight up to 75mg. I reckon if he had left me for longer i would have prob been at TSH 1-2 on 25mg. Now i'm worried I might be taking too much

I hope this will knock it back up again to a TSh between 1 and 2, I'm going to far the opposite way now









Might explain why I'm feeling breathless and a bit hyper today?


----------



## SaffronXXX

Thumblina - I am absolutely heartbroken for you. What a difficult time you must be going through.  None of this is your fault so don't blame yourself sweetheart. You are doing the right thing by being proactive about what to do next. I know your family and friends will probably tell you to have a time to recover both emotionally and physically but sometimes only way to get through a situation like this to keep moving forward.... Keep going hunni. 

Sarah - best of luck to you for today. Keep us updated! 

SX


----------



## Mousky

Sarahh - thinking of you       


Suitcase - I'm also having FET and I need ILs but Dr G was super vague about it so I don't know how many and when    Is it OK if I ask you why you're having it twice before transfer? I was under the impression I'd only need one but then again my 50:1 was 21% and my TNF-a 31.9 (and I don't fancy Humira at this point). 


K - € 100 is a good price. I don't live in the UK so I'd still have to travel to Dr G or a friend's house to use [email protected] so if I could get a cheap flight to CZ it could be worth it    Could you tell me which clinic are you using? 


Hi everyone!


----------



## Pigloo

Agate/anyone? - I have ordered my 1st intalipid drip for day 7 (Px says 1st drip day 5-7 of stimms) and second drip for day 9 (px says second drip to be taken between day 9-11 of stimms). I hope these are not too close together but with other committments I had thats only time I could fit in. Will this be ok?

[email protected] posting out all other meds next week.

Pigloo x


----------



## ells

Pigloo you drip timing is the same as mine, you should be fine hun.   

Ells


----------



## Pigloo

Ells - thanks babe x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Mousky - I actually had ivig for the first drip and intrallipids for the second one. I had my tests done some time ago (gosh must be nearly 2 yrs now) and when they were done I didn't have the test done to show what effect intrallipids would have on my NK cells, only ivig. So I know ivig is effective (in test tube environment) in reducing NK cells, but intrallipids I don't know at all and I didn't want to pay for more tests so agreed with Dr G that I would have one lot of ivig and one of intrallipids to cover all bases and keep my costs down as other option was 2 lots of ivig which would be super expensive
I'm at work and don't have my results to hand right now but seem to recall my NK cells were pretty high, partic the CD 19 and I think the CD3 - will have to check the paperwork when I'm home - so I guess that's why 2 drips recommended

I've never managed to get pg on any of these immune cycles so never had the tests to see what the ivig/intrallipids has actually done to my levels - so I don't even know if it's working which is also a bit of a concern
If this FET fails (it will be my 3rd DE attempt) then I am going to get everything re-tested, and get the other tests done (LAD/LIT etc etc) before having one final fresh go towards the end of this year.....

Pigloo - I'm sure it's fine. I think it varies for everyone and depends on whether fresh cycle or FET and whether DE/OE...your timings sound fine for your situation   

Suitcase
x

PS not sure if Kehlan is refering to Reprofit in CZ, but they definitely offer Intrallipids for around €100 as one of the other girls on the singles board has used them, so that's one to check out Mousky - not sure if they will do the intrallipids if you are not cycling there though. Can PM you the contact emails if you want - just let me know


----------



## DND

Thumblina - I am really sad for you. There is nothing to say to make the thing better but I hope that you manage to find your strength and hope again. I am sending lot of hugs to you.
Sarahh-god luck! 
Agate-many regards to you. You are our talking bible! 
And of course heartily hello to all of you strong women.

I have done my LIT by dr G yesterday. I am little tired today but it can be because of the journey. We left London by EasyBusat at 17.30. Hugh, such a horrible traffic. My arms are quite sore today but I do not have any other reactions yet. Dr G injected 8-9 times in my right forearm and 3-4 in the left one. He put on some plasters which I am not allowed to remove or wet for 1-2 days. So no shower for me until tomorrow. :-( 

I am worried about humira now. What reaction after humira did you feel? Did your ovulation delay? We booked a SPA weekend 2 days after my first humira but I am worried that it was not so wise. How do you "live" with humira? I became really afraid when I read all those side effects? Maybe those are more actual when using humira for a longer time?


----------



## Mousky

Suitcase - thanks for the info   I must talk to Dr G again about my tx, get my px etc. but I now think 2 drips of IL would be more sensible    I'm trying to work out the costs of having it done in the UK or somewhere else. I think I read it's "only"  € 90 in Greece and I might be going there for my 3rd LIT so we'll see    Please pm me their contact emails. I'm not sure if flying there would make it all much more expensive (and stressful) but I think it's worth checking it   


btw,ladies, a question re ILs. I'm going for medicated FET but I still don't think I can be sure when transfer will be. I usually take forever to respond to hormones etc. In that case, what should I aim for? You girls say ILs 7-10 days before transfer but if I can't tell when transfer will be?    I'm afraid I'll do it too early. Would this be a problem? For how long should it be in your system?


DND - DH wrapped my arm and took a bath    I felt pretty silly but couldn't bear not showering/bathing for a day


----------



## agate

DND said:


> I am worried about humira now. What reaction after humira did you feel? Did your ovulation delay? We booked a SPA weekend 2 days after my first humira but I am worried that it was not so wise. How do you "live" with humira? I became really afraid when I read all those side effects? Maybe those are more actual when using humira for a longer time?


Have you tried chatting to the nice ladies on the humira thread?
I think I would skip spas because I am pretty risk averse - and I would be thinking that they MAY be full of bugs and any bug you pick up may raise your NKa and TNFa which is exactly what you are trying to calm - you can't avoid everything but it seems sensible to avoid any 'new' risks - but if you do go, the odds are you will be fine.



Mousky said:


> btw,ladies, a question re ILs. I'm going for medicated FET but I still don't think I can be sure when transfer will be. I usually take forever to respond to hormones etc. In that case, what should I aim for? You girls say ILs 7-10 days before transfer but if I can't tell when transfer will be?  I'm afraid I'll do it too early. Would this be a problem? For how long should it be in your system?


If in doubt, I'd go for too early rather than too late. It should last for about 4 weeks and be at its peak about 7-14 days after you take it- but its not an exact thing. So maybe decide when the earliest date that ET might be and count back 7 days. If it really ends up being massively too early, you can ask for another one, but if its too late, you can't do anything about it.


----------



## Mousky

Thanks


----------



## DND

thanks Agate, do you have link to humira tread? Hm, well I feel that I need a pause somewhere. Maybe if I avoid SPA and just are somewhere close to sea. ... Dreaming :-(


----------



## agate

its in the investigations and immunology section


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies

Can someone give me some help please  , I phoned [email protected] about my IVIG yesterday and they said DR Gorgy hasnt written down the pre -med so i rang him today to ask about my dosage for IVIG as hes perscirbed me 25mg and he said i dont need anymore its the right dose for me he said you can go up to 74kg before higher dose , I said to him [email protected] said he hadnt written down pre-med and he said i know i havnt im not writting it anymore as they will start to expect it all the time , I said they said i had to ring him to ask for what pre-med i needed and he said NO i thought am i hearing things as i find it hard to understand him so i repeated it and he said no [email protected] will have to tell you .so I rang them back knowing they wouldnt be able to tell me as she said so yesterday and she said were not doctors so i cant tell you , Im so stressed all my face is bright red and blotchy ive been  im so worked up i dont know what to do [email protected] said to ask the nurse when she rings she MIGHT be able to tell me she didnt know what to advise for best as its suposed to come from the doctor

If any of you girls remember id really appreciate you telling me what i need 

Thanks R 

xxx


----------



## ells

Ratsy    I have  a feeling its piriton but i am sure some else will be along soon to confirm.

Ells


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Ratsy - don't know if this helps but the first one or two times I had IVIG at Dr G's I was given a Benadryl tablet (pretty similar to piriton - both are antihistimines). This latest time (just last week) I wasn't given anything at all - not sure why. I didn't ask and only remembered afterwards that I hadn't had it. And I didn't have any adverse reaction or anything - mind you, I get terrible hayfever and am currently taking Clarytyn anyway (although will have to stop after ET on Monday which is a pain - hope the pollen has calmed down a bit now..>) - so that would probably have done the trick
So I would just get yourself some anti-histimine of some sort and pop one of those before the ivig...

Hope you get it sorted soon
Suitcase
x


----------



## agate

the only Px I still have a copy of says 1 x benadryl (which is acrivastine) for premed. 
but in margin, [email protected] have written 1mg chlorphenamine (which is piriton).  I didn't take either and I'm aware that lots of ladies don't but some of the [email protected] nurses seem to insist on it and some aren't bothered (you can buy piriton and benadryl at the chemist).

the protocol seems to vary with some ladies having 1 tab before and up to 3 tabs after, or just 1 tab before, or IV piriton before and tabs after.  maybe if you had some at home just in case, it would suit whatever the nurse thinks you should be doing?  but it would be better for Dr G to specify - I guess this is why he prefers you to always have the first one in his clinic so then he knows you are ok with it and therefore don't need to worry about the premed.  But its a bit unfair of him not be a bit more accommodating when the only reason you are not having it in the clinic is because he is away.


----------



## agate

will anyone volunteer to proofread an immune Tx FAQ I have been struggling to finish?  I don't want to embarrass myself by posting it in case its full of garbage or has obvious missing sections.  please pm me.

thanks


----------



## ratsy

Thanks ells suitcase and agate 

Il get myself a packet of antihistimines in and just take one just incase

Agate - I was shocked when he said no i definatly was going to have the IVIG with him as i was going to have my LAD re-tested on same day even when akvile said DR Eskander will do it at 3 i said ok and then she said oh it might not be 3 it could be later thats when i said il have it at [email protected] as it would be to late and then id have a long journey home and dp has got to be up at 4.30 next day so it wasnt fair on him ,ahh well i know now so onto the next drama huh 

Suitcase - my hayfever playing up aswel my eyes sore and my throat soo itchy

lou - Thanks for listening earlier  

Thanks again girls

R  xxx


----------



## Clarebaby

Hi Agate,

Happy to have a read through, though I am not the most experienced at all this stuff!

C


----------



## bangles

Sorry to butt in - posted this on the immunology thread, but Mandy suggested I put it on here too, just to pass the info on, so here is a copy - Bangles x

Hi folks - just thought I should share my day with you, for the benefit  of anyone due to see Dr. Gorgy in the next 2 - 3 weeks.  His secretary  is away and although the ladies standing in for her were very nice, they  don't know the ropes yet, and so things were a bit stressful - I'll  explain.

I had a telephone appointment with Dr. G a week to a  couple of weeks or so back, and he passed me on to his secretary to make  an appt. to have the Chicago tests.  She told me to come in on a  Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday before 1.00pm, cos the bloods would have to  be Fed-exed by that time to get to Chicago on time.  I said I would  have to get to Newark station as fast as I could after the school run,  and estimated I could probably get in by 12ish, which she said would be  fine, so the appt time was left that I would get in as quickly as I  could after school run.  

As it was, I arrived somewhere between  11.45 and 12.00pm.  The replacement secretary asked whether I had been  there before, I said 'no' (cos I hadn't actually 'been there') and she  gave me a form to fill in.  There was another couple waiting to go in.    Then a bit later a second couple came in and I heard them telling the  sec they were just back for a repeat blood test, and the usual secretary  had said she would leave a form behind the desk for them to go straight  to the lab.  The replacement sec and the other sec didn't find it, but  asked the couple to sit down.  Time passed.  Soon it was getting close  to 1pm, so I was understandably getting really worried, having been told  that the bloods had to go by then.  I asked the secretary and then Dr.  Gorgy came out of the previous appointment, and the secretary spoke to  him, and he asked me what I was there for.  There was a  misunderstanding about the fact that the normal secretary had put my  name next to the 9.00am slot in the appointments book, and Dr. Gorgy  explained that he didn't have time to see me now.  

I was about  to burst into tears, not least because I had taken my dh to the docs the  previous night, (we're having the LAD tests) and in a hot stuffy  nurse's office, he had been rather painfully punctured, held his breath  with the pain, deprived his brain of oxygen, and fainted (amusing now,  but actually really scary and sad at the time).  So the fact that I had  brought his blood all this way, travelled from Lincolnshire on the train  at no small expense, and was now being told he didn't have time for me,  when I hadn't imagined I needed to see anyone but his nurse, was really  upsetting.  However, when I explained I had had a phone consultation  with him and was only here for tests, he said that that would be okay,  and he could fit me in because I would have a file already, and when I  brought up the 1.00pm deadline, he said up to 1.30 would be fine.  

So  much relieved I went and sat down.  But then nothing happened again for  ages, because he had taken the first couple into his office, and time  dragged on.  So I wondered if a nurse would call me through, but nothing  happened.  So I asked the second couple, who turned out to be none  other that fellow FFers 'Mandchris'!!! if Dr. G did the blood himself.    Which obviously he doesn't, but they explained the whole thing to me,  and Mandy told me not to worry, the same had happened to them first time  they came, and although it got pretty fine, timing wise, the Chicago  tests did go off in time.  So we chatted on a bit, but still nothing,  and eventually it got to about 1.20, and by this stage Mandy was worried  too, cos obviously both of us were in the same position re: the Chicago  deadline.  There was a third couple in there, who had arrived after us  and they were wondering when they were going to get seen, and it was  all quite tense.  So Mandy saved the day and spoke seriously to the  secretaries and they interrupted Dr. G's appointment to ask him what was  happening, and so he finally finished and called each of us in to give  us the forms to go up the road to the lab.  

When I got to the  lab, I was taken aback by the queue for reception, finally handed my  form in and was told it would be a fifteen minute wait.  By this time it  was gone 1.30.  I said would that be enough time to Fedex the blood to  Chicago? and the receptionist said 'Oh, well usually that has to go  before 1pm.  I'll have to find out for you.'  Cue the tears (almost)  once again.  I was asked to go to the waiting room, and Mandy and Chris  joined me soon after, and they had heard the conversations about the  Chicago deadlines on the way in, and said Dr. G had rung the lab to tell  them what had happened.  So we all sat there, and five minutes later,  the receptionist came in to tell us that anything up to 3pm was okay for  Chicago.  Relief.  

It was all okay in the end, but as with  anything ivf related, it's incredibly stressful when things don't run to  plan.  The idea of having gone there and then missed the Fedex  deadline, and wasting the train fare and the day, and having to go back  to our GPs and grovel again (after all, they are not obliged to take  dh's blood - they did it as a favour) and having to put dh through the  whole experience after yesterday was unthinkable.  Mandy and Chris and I  all had return train journeys booked which we could have missed, adding  to the stress.  

The problems clearly stemmed from the fact that  the secretary was obviously a temp, and while she was quite efficient  at the duties required, she did not have any awareness of the whole  'Chicago deadline' thing, which Dr. G's normal sec would obviously  know.  She was very apologetic.  So the 'learning points' are these (you  can tell I'm a teacher!)  

One, if any of you are going there  before the 23rd July, speak up sooner rather than later if you are  stewing.  Don't do the British thing of waiting patiently - don't know  where I'd have been without Mandy.    

Secondly, if anyone asks  you if you've been there before, and you've had a phone consultation,  mention it!

Thirdly, although the clinic likes you to be in  before 1pm for the bloods to be taken, the lab can cope up till 3pm - so  if knowing that helps you to chill, you're welcome to the information.    Obviously the clinic wouldn't want that widely known in case it made  patients sloppy about turning up on time!

So it just remains for  me to say that the only good thing about the day was meeting Mandy and  Chris, and I must apologise too cos when Dr. G. called me through, if  I'd had any manners at all I'd have said for them to go first cos their  train left before mine.  I didn't think 'manners' till after I got into  his office, which was a bit late.  

BTW - Dr. Gorgy was very  nice, and so were the secretaries, it was just a confluence of  unfortunate factors that made the whole thing stressful.  If reading  this helps anyone to be better prepared, then the post will have done  its job.  Bon chance to you all - B x


----------



## Mandchris

Bangles - thanks for posting this, it was very busy today and very stressful. It was lovely meeting you even though towards the end i suspect my head looked as though it was ready to blow! lol
I think D Gorgy should seriously start thinkig bout a nurse or assistant, too much on his plate now.
Agate - thanks fo your support means a lot xx
Hello everyone 
Mandy xxxxxxxxxx


----------



## sal2

I AGREE, HE NEEDS AN ASSISTANT TO DEAL WITH small ISSUES, WE ARE PAYING ENOUGH..
WE DONT NEED THE ADDED STRESS OF IT ALL, THANK GOD YOU GOT SORTED


----------



## agate

bangles - this is what I said on your other thread.... just putting here too to prove I am still (half) awake) and in case someone helps someone else - I think a few ladies did say they thought things were going to be chaotic with Akbil away! 

"sorry about all that - it sounds really stressful - but just to bear in mind - sometimes it is 1pm cut off and not 3pm - it depends on the couriers, bank holidays, flights etc.    Often there is leeway, but some days there isn't.  So most of us try and get to TDL before 12pm to be safe.

If you are only going for bloods - usually his normal secretary has the form ready for you/or she can organise it quickly so you don't even need to see Dr G - you just say that you are there to pick up your blood form and then go straight off and get your bloods done."


----------



## Mandchris

Agate - Yes i agree with Akvill not there it was a nightmare, i deliberately told the receptionist when i arrived that i didnt need to see dr g an had only come for my blood test.  I sat down and waited and waited and waited, i then went back and explained i only needed the blood form (as was told this wld be left for me to collect), still nothing.  At 1.20 i started to stress and asked for him to be interrupted, (I had waited 1 hour 10 mins), finally I got to get bloods at 2pm (dr Gorgy called ahead to referrals and asked for myself and bangles to be included in chicago run), was told they go at 3pm, but they like you to be there by 12.30 from what he told me previously.
I think if you are going for bloods they should manage it differently, maybe someone to coordinate etc. the last time i went it was a 1.15 blood test.. it is stressful.. particularly when you have sat on a train for 2 hour and have limited time to get the train home.  I could have done without the stress to be honest  
Mandy xxx


----------



## bangles

Agate, likewise I will put on my post from the other thread - certainly as you say, it would not be wise for anyone to make an assumption about a 3pm deadline and I would not want to give misleading information, I just think Dr G knew it would be okay today, but we didn't, so think if people are sitting waiting, he probably has it more in hand that it might seem from the patient perspective.

'_Yes, I'm sure that's the normal arrangement, because that's what had been arranged for Mandy, but the temp couldn't find the forms and didn't know what to say to us. Just thought it was as well for people to know that things might not go according to plan at present - forewarned being forearmed and all that. Sorry if I have misled anyone on the FedEx timing - guess it depends on what time the planes are going to Chicago. I certainly wouldn't want anyone to turn up later than arranged on the basis of what I was saying, but I presume Dr G must have known something we didn't, re timings, but obviously, if you are going on what you've been told (no later than 1pm) and find yourself sitting in the waiting room watching time pass it feels like things are spiralling out of control and you feel a bit helpless. Just want to suggest to anyone else in the same situation that they MUST speak up, especially as temp agencies sometimes mix staff about a bit, and even if the current lady gets the hang of it all, it could be someone else next week. B x'_


----------



## mag108

Thumblina: just to say how sorry I am that you are experiencing this loss. It is all very very sad and hard to come to terms with. It really is such a sad sad loss. You make sure that you take it very very easy and be gently with yourself hun. Loss takes it's toll. There will be a light of hope around the corner. 
x


----------



## Saffa77

oh no ladies sounds like a stressful day at Dr G's yeah i dont understand why he dosent get a nurse, or medical assistant not very good if we paying the amount we do - has anyone suggested this to DR G himself? One day there is going to be a huge stuff up then who is too blame? This is serious meds and stuff we dealing with here.

Well I will be calling Dr G's rooms for my NK retest results lets see if the temp can find these to fax through to me and hope I get a prescription sent through to [email protected] too hope its not going to be too stressful!!! aaaaaaaaaaaaargh.

Sx


----------



## agate

well, I am sure its something that he is planning to do as his practice is getting bigger and bigger and we all know how useful a good nurse would be - but of course to get someone actually useful at london wages is going to cost a lot and his consult rate would inevitably go up.  Compared to other private consultants in london his hourly rate is actually very low - I know we all see big bills for tests (but that is just how much TDL and RFU charge - Dr G's mark up on them isn't big) and the same for meds - but the actual charge he makes for consults is pretty low - most Harley St docs charge something like £225 an hour now... but yes, I totally agree its going to have to happen because he's so much busier now.


----------



## sarita36

Hi all - just a quickie to say I spoke to Dr G and he said he'll only be away on 26th and 27th July in case anyone else need to know. He told me that I would likely have EC on July 28th so it would be fine - BUT how could he POSSIBLY know that when I haven't even started stimming yet?? 


That plus the chaos and lack of his usual secretary makes me wonder if I should really go ahead with this cycle there - everything seems to be suggesting that its just going to be a stressful nightmare and that he may not even be around at the crucial times. This is likely our last try too. 


Have gone from being excited & positive to pretty bl**dy low   


I will talk to him tomorrow when I get my AMH results but I think I might suggest I stop or switch to ARGC. Am confused - again!


Sorry for all the ladies that had a stressful day - and love and    to all xx


----------



## Diane72

Sarita, have to say it is stressing me too, was feeling a bit tearful earlier but that could be the suprecur. The thing is even if he thinks he will be back by the time we need EC he has to measure our follies and tell us when to trigger. Re:ARGC I think they will make you do a 'monitoring cycle' first so you'd be delayed another month unless it has changed since I was there. Niccad are you at ARGC? 

Ratsy, as the others said I think it was one standard piriton tablet. I think I took it before IVIG but not IL

Hugs to everyone

Diane


----------



## bangles

Dr G said Akbil was coming back on the 23rd.  Must stress that this was the new secretary's first day, and sure she will pick things up as she goes along.  Every workplace has its bad days, and hopefully things will pick up quickly.  Don't want to give the impression it was 'chaos' exactly, just that she didn't know about the Chicago deadline, that was all, and didn't want anyone else to have the same experience.  B x


----------



## sal2

sorry for rant again  but 90 quid for a phone consultation and we cant understand it ,is a bit much for a few mins. I know hes great at what he does but some patients can get the backlash of his spreading himself around too much. Ive had no bad dealings with him but find it hard to understand him and the phone pauses sometimes or should I say the conversation but have heard some stories all to do with him being very busy. I just    that he is gonna get some organised help..


Best of luck on deciding what to do girls with EC  as its stressfull enough, but Im sure you will make the right decision


----------



## Mousky

Oh, boy! What a nightmare! Ratsy, Bangles, Mandchris, Diane and Sarita    I hope everything gets sorted out asap! I must honestly say,  I'd prefer to pay more and have it less stressful


----------



## Bling1975

I am so sorry to hear about all the stress some of you have had recently. A good nurse is worth paying for. My consults have never lasted more than 15 minutes so far so it is a good hourly rate. The nurse at my IVF clinic always saves the day.

I was seriously stressed out on monday evening trying to organise all paperwork for sending my LAD retest to Chicago and worried about FedEx messing it up as it has happened a lot. But all (almost) went to plan and I received a email from Lorraine that they got my blood and would fax me a copy of the result as soon as it is done. She is so nice. I was a bit worried as Akbil is away and she usually fax it for me, I want to be able to have one more LIT if needed before my FET so I rather have the result as soon as possible. But I hope to be done with Athens now.


----------



## Louiseb26

Morning Ladies

Does anyone know what the chemist is called near Dr G?

Off for my scan this morning.Day 14 of dr...lets hope I'm ready for stimms   

Cant believe all the stress at Dr G already...HURRY up and come back Akbil.

Big   to everyone

Lou xx


----------



## agate

is it wigmore pharmacy on wigmore st?


----------



## niccad

Diane - yes I'm with ARGC. I decided that I wanted a clinic with backup doctors etc. After the volcanic ash situation I wondered what would happen re EC etc if another volcano went off and DrG was stuck somewhere.... 
saying that ARGC is far from stressfree! Going every morning & sometimes every afternoon and having to queue all the time isn't ideal... Also I never get to speak to DrT - at least with DrG he is available when you call... 

Anyone in for ILs or IVIG tomorrow?
xx


----------



## ells

Good luck for your scan this morning Louise.

Hi Niccard   .
Ells


----------



## Bling1975

I was just thinking of something that could make my life easier as I can't make the 1 pm deadline at TDL travelling from Sweden the same day so I always have to go the day before. 

Considering that you can draw blood locally in the afternoon and post it overnight to London so it arrives in the morning and still make the Chicaco time deadline. Couldn't you draw the blood at TDL in the afternoon and they send it of in the morning with the other posted blood? I can't see the difference.


----------



## agate

don't see why not so long as its monday or tuesday (no fedex run on thurs or fri) - you could phone the referrals dept at TDL but I can't see any reason why not - so long as it wasn't accidentally refridgerated or something.


----------



## sarahh

Hi girls, just a quick update, had EC yesterday, only 5 eggs (gutted), waited endlessly for the phone call this morning and gave up and phoned them only 3 were mature & were injected and this morning 2 had fertilised.  They didn't tell me the grade, but I think this is normal for this stage as they can't really tell?? Is that right??  

So, as there are only 2 then going for ET tomorrow at 12.30. 

Bangles & MandChris  we were the couple that came in when you were in the waiting room and DH took the receptionist out to talk to her - we weren't trying to push in but Mr G should have spoken to us about a v important issue after our EC but instead he disappeared and left a message saying "they can come to the clinic".  So I was half sedated still and we were both very cross / upset. Not really what one needs after EC. 

Girls, I don't want to dwell on this right now but something has to change with Mr G, he has caused us endless stress & upset this cycle and we would not use him (or LWC) again (& i'm saying this now whatever the outcome of our cycle...).  He will be hearing from us about what we think when we have got this important time out the way.  I don't want to scare you girls about to cycle, but please, make sure yourself everything is order & push push push for what you want.  He is simply getting himself too busy and he cannot handle it anymore I don't think. 

Sorry for the me post, off to get some sleep before tomorrow. 

Sarah x


----------



## sarahh

Lou b - I think the pharmacy u may mean is Wellbeck Pharmacy? If u r thinking of buying yr drumming drugs there Merional is cheaper there than  Mr G but Fostimon is cheaper at Mr G's. 


Good luck xx


----------



## sarahh

Drumming drugs!!!!! Meant stimming drugs but on iPhone & didn't notice the auto correction!!!! X


----------



## sarita36

Sarah - sorry to hear you have had such a stressful time - lots of      for ET.


I have actually just made the decision to stop d/regging and see if I can go back to the ARGC where I had my last cycle - either this month or wait till August if need be. I had a call with Dr G today after getting back my horribly low AMH and he couldn't answer any of my qus and wanted me to keep taking the superacur even though he told me before if my AMH was low he would have me stop taking it. I for one have lost confidence and although I'm sure he is good I do not think he is right for me. I'm sure its just that he's busy but I need to trust his decision making and right now I just don't


x


----------



## Pigloo

Sarah - My friend only got three eggs had two put back and got a BFP so its still enough, it only takes one good one!! x

I'm getting myself in a tizz now about the drugs i've been prescribed by Dr G. Firstly I was worried about Pred (affecting Thyroid/adrenals, agate you have already posted about that) now i'm cocerned about taking the clexane as i have just read the info on my levothyroxine drug leaflet  *

DRUG INTERACTIONS:* 
Levothyroxine may increase the effect of blood thinners such as warfarin (Coumadin). Therefore, monitoring of blood clotting is necessary, and a decrease in the dose of warfarin may be necessary.

Clexane is a blood thinner right! I won't be monitored on this and my doesage is the same as everyone who Dr G prescribes this drug for!

Pigloo x


----------



## agate

Pigloo: I replied on your other thread - but basically warfarin is very different to clexane.

Sarahh: I am so sorry for the dissapointment and that you haven't had the level of TLC that we expect - please try and be positive though for the sake of your embryos.  On the only Tx that we had that worked we had the worst fertilisation rate - and only 2 good enough to transfer - (and I was going through the most stressful time imaginable with non-TTC stuff in my life) but it still actually worked.  Other Tx's we had more eggs and better fertilisation rate but it didn't work (although we hadn't had the immunes 'fixed' on those).

Sarita: good luck with whatever you decide to do.  you have to do what feels right for you otherwise you will only be stressed about it.

Louise: good luck for tomorrow.


----------



## Bling1975

Agate, that's what I thought, maybe it will be useful for someone else as well now that Dr G is a bit to busy and things run late as the other day. 

Sarahh, I hope it all works out for you after all that stress and that this cycle is the lucky one.

I am so happy today, I got my LAD results and they are finally looking quite good.

After 2 x paternal LIT:
T IgM: 1.0
T IgG: 2.7
B IgM: 13.9
B IgG: 20.6

After pooled donor:
T IgM: 1.0
T IgG: 11.7
B IgM: 13.3
B IgG: 90.1

The IgM:s doesn't change at all and the flowcytometry is still negative but I am very happy about the high B IgG


----------



## ells

SarahH    good luck for tomorrow hun.

Pigloo hope you are feeling reassured on the drugs.  My GP checks my clotting (INR) levels so if there is a prob he will let me know but I am also now under a haematlogist at the hospital. I am sure all will be fine hun but always best to get everything checked out until you feel happy.   

Bling great news on your LAD - mine is also still negative overall but my B IGg has come up to 92 with out LIT.  

I do hope that Dr G will be a little more organised for you ladies, you dont need the added stress   .

Hi to everyone else hope you are all well   .

Ells


----------



## bangles

Sarah, sorry to hear you are having such a hard time.  Am glad you are on here though - was hoping you might be, cos it does make it so much easier when we all know why each other was stressing so badly.  You've read our stories and we've read yours.  In truth, Mandy and I didn't even need to be there if the forms had been waiting.  I really hope that your embryos stick for you, and that your experience tomorrow goes more smoothly and you can relax afterwards.  Sarita - good luck.  Pigloo, all I know about warfarin was that my mum was on it for years after a heart operation, but whenever she had to have anything else surgical done, she was put on heparin (I think clexane is that) for a while before and after the operation because it was considered so much safer, and less contraindicated, which fits with what Agate is saying.  B x


----------



## Louiseb26

Sarah I'm sorry this is a stressful time Hun...you really don't need it.Wishing you all the best for ET tomorrow...will be thinking of you.Chin up lovely...stay strong for those little embies    
Did you get all your other drugs there? 

I'm starting 225 Fostimon and dropping the suprecur to 0.2 tomorrow.

Agate thanks for the reply,was wondering where was the cheapest to get the rest of my drugs.Dr G hasn't wrote my px out for the rest yet...for some reason he keeps putting it off    

Ells - Thanks for the luck.Hope you doing ok lovely   

I'm starting to feel so scared about this cycle now...funny how your mind starts playing with you.

Lou xx


----------



## agate

Louise: I sent my DH off to shop at Rigcharm in Shadwell (on the DLR I think) because it was quite a bit cheaper - I phoned them (they were v helpful and had everything in) and then DH did the journey whilst I had my drip(s).  He wasn't gone for a long time so I assume it can't be that far.

Bling: fab LAD!


----------



## Mousky

Sarah - thinking of you    I'm really sorry about all the added stress you've had. I really hope your LOs will make beautiful babies 

Sarita - I'm almost a bit shy to say (here) that Dr G couldn't answer many of our questions. I just felt he prescribed me some protocol without really looking into it. He didn't consider some potential issues that could come in the way of some of the drugs he prescribed me (_Pigloo, I sympathize with your concerns but I think/hope pred/clex are OK_) It's not a matter of TLC, but this isn't cheap, not to mention all the expectations we have so if I'm honest, I'll say I expected a lot more  Maybe it was just a bad day but we didn't like it. It's a pitty but he's our only option right now so I hope his "magic" will also work on us 

A big hello to everyone else.

Mousky xx


----------



## Louiseb26

Thanks alot agate.I'm going to have a ring around to find out what cheapeast.   

I must say that I'm to cycling with Dr G and I'm getting really worried about whats going on.
Had some awful dreams about the whole tx thing last night.Really hope this sorts its self out...   

Ladies is it ok to do fostimon,suprecur together in the morning? Or one in the morning and one in the evening?

Lou xx


----------



## sarahh

Lou think he prefers u 2 stimm in eve cos he'll phone u after yr E2 blood tests in the pm to tell u what dose to take. 
Good luck hon. 

AFM I hav one 3 cell grade 2 & one 2 cell grade 2+ today. Obv not gr8 quality but it's all we hav, praying they r lucky ones. Agate, thanks 4 yr reassuring words, it means a lot. 

X


----------



## agate

sarahh: those cell numbers are fine for day 2s - should be 2-4 cells on day 2 - and we never got top quality embryos!

Lou: yes, I think all clinics I've been with have asked you to stimm at night so that they have got time to check your bloods/scans/rethink your doses/drugs and then give you instructions in the afternoon or evening on what to take later - unless they specifically start telling you to do a morning dose AND and night dose.  whatever time you normally do your synarel I'd probably stick to that unless told otherwise - but expect your stimms to be varied not just in dose and timing but even in the actual drug - they contain different mixes of LH and FSH - so some docs like to keep tweaking to try to target a particular range for your blood test.


----------



## SaffronXXX

I'm so sorry to read all the stress some of you have been having   Going through tx is stressful enough so you really could do without things like this.  Thank you all for sharing your stories with us though, it's good that we know what has been happening at FGA at the minute/what it can be like with Dr G. 

Sal/sarita/mousky - we felt the same about his consultation with us. I had our questions written on a piece of paper but still felt like we were being rushed and some questions remained unanswered. I don't know what I'd have done without the advice I got from the ladies on here. I am sure he is very experienced and knows what he is doing but he does not seem to be a good communicator and can come across badly. 

Sarah - hope you are recovering ok from EC. So sorry that you too had a stressful time. I am not surprised to hear that you decided not to cycle with Dr G again. He really does sound like he has too much on his plate and something got to be done. Best of luck to you for your ET today. The embryologist at our clinic told me that she used to work at ARGC. She said she had this couple who had their worst fertilisation rate and only one out of 15 eggs fertilised. They had BFP from the very cycle. She said the couple tried for a sibling afterwards and had better fertilization rate but no BFP. We just don't know what makes it work and it is not about no of eggs or no of cells. Stay positive. We will be all thinking of you hunni.

X

Sx


----------



## Louiseb26

Agate,Sarah thanks for the reply.I will be doing the Fostimon in the evening   

Sarah will be thinking of you today...keep   my lovely.Remember what i said on the plane home...THIS IS OUR YEAR.   

Hope everyone has a lovely weekend...the sun is here to stay   

Lou xx


----------



## niccad

Louiseb - good luck with the stimming... This is going to be your year   

Sarah - good luck for ET today xx

Ells - hello back. So nice to see that you're doing ok 

Agate - as always thanks for being such a star. How will we all cope when the bubba arrives?

Big wave to all (sounds like Akvil goes away & the place becomes chaotic - what a pain!)
Nic xx


----------



## sarahh

Hi all, thanks for your messages, much appreciated. 

We had a smooth ET today, the 3 cell had divided again to a 4 cell and we also had zonal thining (where they thin the outer shell but don't break right through it like with Assisted Hatching).  I stayed calm all day today, didn't let anything get to me and went for acupuncture this pm when we got home.  The transfer seemed to take an age, but if there is one thing that can be said for Mr G it is that he is meticulous when it comes to his procedures.  I've never had so much "cleaning" before an ET      Now I just need bucket loads of    and   !! 

Ells, Qing said you were well today, so hope everything was ok this morning with your nan   

Now, on the dreaded test day issue, LWC gave me a pee test to do on 24th July (which is 17 days post EC) but I'm sure last time I did a blood hcg test 14 days after EC i.e. from EC on 7 July then test day for bloods would be 21st July  Is this right??  I don't want to test too early and I don't want to prolong the agony!! You all know how it is!  

Also on the supplements issue, (Agate?!) should I stop taking any of the following: 

Turmeric
Ginger root
Green tea
And are probiotics ok?  Think they are? 

Lou - have you started stimms tonight?    How were things in the clinic today?

Hi to everyone else, sending us all    before I go too   !!! 

Sarah x


----------



## agate

Sarah - yes I think ideally you'd want blood tests 14 and 16 days post EC. 

don't know anything about ginger root.  I think tumeric and green tea extract should be pretty safe, but if you are worried, stop them soonish (and I think I would stop at BFP whatever).  probiotics should be fine all the time.

4 cells on day 2 sounds excellent - but 2 cells is still fine.


----------



## Louiseb26

Just wrote a long post and lost it....  

Sarah I'm so pleased it went to plan today.Now you just have to chill for the next 2 weeks.I'm sure it will fly by with millie keeping you on your toes...bet you don't get 5 Min's.
I stated stimms tonight and all went well.I wasn't in clinic today,i was there yesterday and it was dead...i was the only one in there.I'm back on Monday,so i will let you know how it is.  

Niccard - Thanks for the luck lovely.I'm taking all i can   Hope your doing ok Hun   

Big   to you all

Lou xx


----------



## CLS

*Lou* - I'm also doing IVF with Dr. G and started stimming last Sunday. I was on Fostimon but have changed tonight to Merional. I'm also still taking Suprecur (injection). Agate is spot on in that Dr. G likes you to take the stimming in the evening - I take Suprecur in the morning rather than have everything in the evening.

*Sarah* - sorry to hear you've had a stressy time these past few days with Dr. G. Like the others, I agree it only takes one good embryo for you to achieve your dream of becoming a mum.

While I was in at Dr/ G's clinic today having my IL, I had a chat to him about Akvile being away and how busy he is and all that. The lady he's had in the clinic helping him since Akvile went on hols these past 3 days is only there until tomorrow - her daughter then takes over from her as of next Monday. Dr. G said it's been hard these past few days with everyone getting used to the new lady helping out, especially when she is only there for a few days. I suspect (and hope!) that the new girl that is there from Monday will be able to get more used to what goes on and needs to happen and in doing so, will help make everyone's lives easier.

It may sound silly but I was concerned that I was going to be doing my EC and ET while Akvile is away and that things may not run as smoothly (?!) as possible. So I decided the only way through it is to be pretty forthright with Dr. G and getting organised as much as possible ahead of time in regards to consent forms, medication prescriptions etc. I turn up with a list of questions every time I go in there - he must think I'm either a dumb brunette or a complete organisational freak but it helps me keep on track as to what info I need from him!

While his disorganisation and lack of communcation frustrates me and adds more stress to the whole process, I keep reminding myself that he knows what he's on about and based on my specific health issues, he's my best chance of a successful pregnancy at this point in time. After this cycle is over, I plan to make a serious recommendation about getting someone in to help him - the more of us who say it to him, the more he might actually listen and hopefully do something about it, especially if it means him avoiding losing some valuable patients.

I'm scheduled for EC next Saturday 17th so fingers crossed it goes ok - we can't afford for it not to both in regards to time (I'm 42 in January!) and money.

Apologies for the long post but thought it might help to share my experiences with Dr G as well?

A big hello to all the other ladies out there. Enjoy the gorgeous sunny weekend.

CS


----------



## Mousky

Sarah - glad to hear it went well. I have everything crossed for you     


Louise and CLS - best of luck for you as well!   


Hello everyone!
I hope you're well


----------



## SaffronXXX

CLS - "It may sound silly but I was concerned that I was going to be doing my EC and ET while Akvile is away and that things may not run as smoothly (?!) as possible. So I decided the only way through it is to be pretty forthright with Dr. G and getting organised as much as possible ahead of time in regards to consent forms, medication prescriptions etc. I turn up with a list of questions every time I go in there - he must think I'm either a dumb brunette or a complete organisational freak but it helps me keep on track as to what info I need from him!"  Wow I think you are very sensible. Sounds like you are well organised! Well done!!! Hope everything goes smoothly in the next few days. Keep us posted X

Sarah - Really pleased to hear your ET went fine. Dr G's ''meticulous cleaning" made me giggle though! Hope you are taking it easy. Re POAS. I would think 14 days after EC would be accurate. With our last IVF we were told by our clinic to come in for a hcg blood test 15 days after EC but the nurse said that we can test with pee test from the day befoe if we are desperate. (In a normal cycle 14 days after ov is when you can test with HPT anyway and EC day can be regarded as ov day?)

AFM - started clexane and pred 2 days ago and was surprised how easy the clex jab was! DH and I were out to cinema on Fri and I had to do the jabs in the car in the Cineworld car park though. Obviously I tried to be as discreet as possible and was relieved when they were all done;-)  I couldn't have imagined doing this kinda thing when we were having our 1st cycle. Haven't we come a long way. We are more aware of what's happening and what to expect . We are more relaxed this time and not keeping too many things on hold, which feels great 

Happy sniffing and jabbing to anyone else who are going through tx! 

Hugs to you all.


----------



## sarahh

Hi all, wow its been quiet on here. 

CLS & Saffron - happy injecting!  I don't find the Clexane bad at all and TBH even the Gestone is not that bad, its not really when you do it that hurts but I find its a bit tender later in the day!! I've been using 1 1/2 " needles so hope they are long enough   

CLS - you must get organised, you are doing exactly the right thing and I'm sure Dr G doesn't think anything detrimental about it.  He is probably secretly relieved you are reminding him of things.  Just make sure to remind him to check and double check your screening tests and also give you the consent forms in plenty of time.  Everything is just a bit more stressy when it is done last minute. 

I had my LAD results back yesterday and my B cells have gone up to 99 and my T cells are 80something (couldn't hear exactly what he said on phone) but I'm pleased.  

All my family have gone off to a bbq today but I decided to stay at home and put my feet up on my own and be quiet (and now I feel like billy no mates!!   )  

Lou - hope those stimms are going well - suspect you are in for bloods and scan tomorrow?  Good luck   

Hope everyone else is enjoying the lovely weather (think its meant to turn this week so make the most of it!).    Am just sat here and can feel those horrible af type pains coming on - oh no, the 2ww madness is about to begin!!      Keep me sane girls !!!!!!!!!!!!

Sarah xx


----------



## sal2

Best of luck sarah on tww,first week is ok and then the madness comes along  

I had my 28 unk biopsy friday and sent it to dr g and I think he sends it to USA, how long does it take to get back and will he charge me to get the results from him even though I know I have high nk in blood.
It was very sore and was a bit shocked ,like a hsg. Glad its over,do I have to retest this again(hope not as very sore).
I was onto dr sher and he doesnt agree with this but would rather me do a k-something cant remember the numbers, a blood test to see nk activation,does dr g not do this?
thanks


----------



## sal2

sorry its a K-562?


----------



## agate

Sal2: k562 = the NK assay (the one that goes 50:1...) Dr G does that for everyone.  Different docs disagree on what the 'best test' is - some think NK assay - others think biopsy.  Obviously doing both gives the most info (but the biopsy can't be repeated in pg, so even if you go with the docs who insist biopsy is best, you can't  use it for monitoring your immunes in pg).


----------



## fi7

Hi ladies

sorry to hear about the stress with Dr g,  just incase it helps anyone, my plan is to use Dr G for the tests/ immunes but tx with Dr Gafar who is linked with the ARGC and lister but operates out of Epsom.  Location wise it works for me, and he seems to be ok with me also getting immune advice from dr gorgy.

good luck those of you who are txg. it feels like this is a lucky spell, so i hope the magic works for you too.

fi


----------



## kdb

Hi Agate - just sent the FAQ doc back to you.  Hope my comments are helpful.  It's an excellent doc


----------



## ann69

Hi all,
Hope everyone is well.

I'm off to see Dr G tomorrow for our follow up. We are going up and back in a day so it'll be pretty tiring. Have got my list of questions and am hoping he'll give us any prescriptions we need.
Bit worried by a few of the comments on here about him being majorly disorganised at the moment. Although I'm cycling elsewhere I will be doing immunes with him so need to be really on the ball with when each bit needs to be done!


----------



## woodwitch

Good luck tomorrow, Ann. Don't be rushed and write everything down. And when you leave sit for a moment in the waiting room and double check that you think you have covered everything. Make any appointments you may need for LIT etc there and then if you can.

OK - can I find out your thoughts folk on re-testing TH1:TH2 ratios?

The reason I ask is because mine (TH1) were only about 32.4 - so just outside the acceptable range (upper limit 30.6) and they were done 18 months ago. No immune treatment yet (except for one IL a year ago during an abandoned cycle). I am on hold for humira anyway - all depends on whether I can get a specialist to ok the humira/prescribe me ABs for latent TB...could be months away..

So what I've been thinking is - what if my TH1 have come down in the meanitme  - then all this waiting and the agonising over the humira  and the huge cost of it may not be necessary. I have been on ABs for C (on third round) - it is not gone but the numbers are down (although I know that the pcr test is not designed to be quantitatively accurate).

I have lost weight some belly blubber (I wasn't big but I've probably lost half a stone since too)

What do you think? As always appreciate and value your thoughts and the time you take to respond   

Woody


----------



## niccad

quick question - I got bitten my something at the weekend and the bite has swollen up to the size of my hand! Do you think this is something I should be worried about? I haven't taken any antihistamines and am just putting calamine on it but of course I'm thinking 'is this harming my little bub'?? Any reassurance much appreciated...
xx


----------



## ells

Niccard do you know what bit you?  My DH gotten bitten by a horse fly and the same thing happened to him, huge angry looking red lump came up and it was itchy at times too.  I would ring your MW or GP for some reassurance but I am sure it will be fine.  I am sure that they will advise you on what you can take if you need too hun.   

Woody, I would get them retested as you will be wondering if they have dropped etc.  At least you will know.  You should be able to get the AB's sorted out just to be on the safe side, SarahH had the same issues.  At least you would know what you can do plus you can speak to Dr G about alternatives if you cant get the AB's.  Good luck hun.

Hi to everyone else hope you are all okay.

Ells


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies 

Lou - stimming at last whoo hoo   

Agate - cant believe your ticker not long now 

niccad - ask your mw if you can put witchhazel on it not sure whats in that 

Ells - hope you and bubs all well thanks again for your pm   

Ladies - im currently taking super strength omega 3 fish oils 1300mg when i start my stimms does anyone know what ive got to drop dosage too ,also girls im having pommegrante juice but i thought i had to have a whole glass not that i mind i love it but im sure i read your supposed to water it down can anyone tell me why im supposed to do this thanks ladies 

Hope everyone well   

Ratsy xxx


----------



## ells

Ratsy, you water it down as its soo sugary.    .  not sure about the fish oils hun, I am sure someone will be along soon on that one.

Ells


----------



## mag108

everyone
Not been posting much but have been reading.


Saw Dr G on Fri. Surgery was quiet enough. Had him to myself for a total of 20mins (£90). It was actually enough time. I went with my list. 
Then I heard him say he was off to do an ET! (was that you Sarahh? it was around 12:30?).


I guess that made me smile a little, he may be in a hurry often but it is usually to help and provide treatment.


X


----------



## sarahh

Mag - it would have been me yes, he arrived shortly after 12.30!!  

Woodwitch, didn't mean to make you feel bad last time about your age & antibiotics & the latent TB - have you not managed to get an answer from anyone yet?  I think the think is that they would be cautious of the antibiotics because of liver damage potential & if your TNF is not that bad (32) then i certainly would be inclined to not take the humira.  You have to think is it worth risking the latent infection becoming active and the answer is surely no?  That is just my opinion.

I don't know whether they helped but before the first cycle my level was 54 and it came down to 38 after the first cycle (biochem) and before the cycle I took Green Tea Capsules; ginger; turmeric, royal jelly, wobenzyn m and pycnogenol (these are all meant to have anti inflammatory effects) as well as Mr G's protocol of prednisolone, intralipids (x 1) ivig (x 1), clexane (40mg).    I hope that helps.  

Ratsy - am i right in thinking that fish oils can cause slight blood thinning so to reduce it when you start Clexane?  I may be completely wrong here.  

AFM the 2ww madness has definitely kicked in.  Not really feeling anything at all apart from fed up!!!  Trying to find some PMA but oh god its escaped me!  If anyone finds any please post it here!!!!   

Lou - hope your scan went well today if you had one and    you have lots of nice follies growing.    

Niccad - perhaps you need to speak to your GP and find out if there is anything you can take to reduce the effect of the bite whilst you are pg?  Don't think you can Piriton or such like but maybe there is something else?  

Sarah x


----------



## Pigloo

Sarah - I have read somewhere that you shouldn't take fish oils when taking Clexane

Px


----------



## Mousky

Ann - good luck for your FU tomorrow    


ratsy - I've read the same re clexane and fish oil.


Sarah - I'm not sure I can help you with the PMA    I could definitely use some myself, so if you know where to get it, let me know   


Woody - my TNF-a was 31.9 and although Dr G recommended Humira, I ended up deciding against it    I might retest it after FET depending on my results and who knows, IL + prednisolone (and ABs, why not?) might actually help   


Ells, Mag, Niccad, Pigloo and everyone else


----------



## sarahh

Mousky - perhaps I'll c if I can buy some PMA online then I'll let u know where to get it!! Wouldn't that b nice! 

I'm feeling abs nothing  - mild sore (.)(.) have disappeared, no af type pains but tiny bit of mild bloating. I hate this symptom checking aaarrrggghhhhh!

Off to search 4 PMA!

Good luck today Ann69

Sarah x


----------



## ells

Mousky and SarahH                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

Ells


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Hello all,

I seem to recall reading here that Dr G is away 26th-28th July - is this correct do you know?
I have just had FET yesterday and my OTD is July 26th, although I will prob test a bit earlier as they were 6 day blasts.... If by some miracle I get a BFP, I assume I will then need to get IVIG/intrallipids drip done asap. Does anyone know how quickly I will need to get this done? Should I try to book for 26-28th (assume Eskander is covering?), or will it be OK to wait until Dr G is back do you think?

Your advice appreciated
thanks   
Suitcase 
x


----------



## Louiseb26

Sarah i see your starting to go nuts already   Symptom checking drives you mad...i know i have that to look forward to.  The clinic was empty yesterday.I'm back in again on Wed for a scan and more bloods.
Sarah after EC what meds did he put you on? Hang on in there...your doing great   

CLS - I said to Akvil can you take your holiday another time as I'm going to be pulling my hair out while your away...hope she is having a lovely time away...she needs it   Good luck for EC next sat...I'm hoping i wont be that far behind you   

Ratsy i finally got there lovely...its about time. I'm still     but i am getting loads of cuddles.Hope your doing ok and DP is looking after you. When you ready to start Hun?   

Niccad - Hope you managed to get the bite sorted out...Bloody things. Can you use Tea Tree Oil? Hope your both doing well   

Mousky - Thanks for the luck...I'm colletting loads of it,got quite a bit now   Hope your doing ok   

Agate - Everytime i look at your ticker i cant believe how long you have left.Its getting really exciting.Bet your looking forward to getting out and about.Hope your feeling ok   

Ells hows it all going? Bet your bump is getting really big now     

Big   to everyone else


Lou xx


----------



## ells

Suitcase, I think he will be back on 27th July.  I am sure you will be fine for a few days for the drip, we tested on a Thursday and had the drip on Monday (we had day 5 blasts) so you should be fine hun.

Lousie    thanks hun, we are okay bump is growing nicely thank you.  Still waiting for proper kicks but am feeling a bit more now.  How did the scans go?  How are the follies coming along?

Ells


----------



## Louiseb26

Ells thanks for asking.I'm back in on wed...hope the scan is working by then...it wasn't working yesterday.Only had bloods done.I will let you know how they are doing tomorrow   

Can i ask about IVIG - ILs. Do you have the ILs around day 9 stimms and the have the IVIG when you get a BFP?

Lou xx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Thanks Ells, I might call and check. I was hoping to go in on the 27th as that's the best day for me to take off work (4 hr round trip to London plus the time for the drip itself so have to plan a day off in advance...)

Louise - I had IVIG and IL before ET - the IVIG around day 7 I think, and the IL 3-4 days later. But it does depend on your levels/individual results so worth double checking with Dr G what he would recommend specifically in your own case
Good luck!

Suitcase
x


----------



## ells

Louise I had IVIg on day 7 and IL's on day 9.  Hope the scanner is working tomorrow hun.

Suitcase, might be worth a double check - we are pretty much the same but by the time you add the tube journey its nearer to 3 hours!  You should still be able to get it done as Dr E should be able to do it in Dr G's absence.

Ells


----------



## Louiseb26

Thanks ladies   Just getting all my questions ready for tomorrow


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Thanks Ells, will double check and provisionally book just in case. Am not very optimistic as this is cycle 7 or 8 (so many I lose count..) for me and 3rd attempt with DE, and have had all the immunes before and still no BFP, but don't want to be scrambling round at last minute making appts if I do by some miracle get lucky this time....

good luck tomorrow Louise

Suitcase
x


----------



## agate

Ratsy: for the fish oil there isn't a set safe dose whilst you are on clexane.  If you want to keep taking it I'd drop it to whatever the minimum convenient dose is... say go down from 1500g mg to 1/4 of that or something like it... but then you'd need to stop it if you had anything like nosebleeds or unexplained bruises (and could think about raising it slightly after a couple of weeks if you have no problems). I've taken about that level all the way through.  I haven't had any problems. Its probably more important to be taking some fish oil containing DHA  in early pg if you don't eat fish twice a week - needed for baby's brain development which starts in early pg so that is a crucial time.  But fish oil containing EPA rather than DHA is supposed to be helpful for immunes. 

Niccad: hope your bite is going down now.

Sarahh: don't worry too much about pg symptoms - genuine symptoms are really not that common - most symptoms can be just as much due to the meds like gestone/cyclogest anyway.

Suitcase: I think if it was me I would ask about booking in for IVIG in advance - just so you know the score about what appointments are possible with Dr E (usually I think they are quite late in the afternoon?). Personally I would try and get bHCG blood done approx 14 days after EC (or equivalent), and use that result to schedule your drip - and to get the bHCG repeated 16 days after EC (assuming the first result is +).  I really hope this is the one for you.  You've been through so much and you deserve it so much.

Lou: good luck for tomorrow!

Lou/Ratsy: Am doing ok.  Trying to finish that FAQ before the end of the week - because I am not sure when I am going to need to go into hospital, and I wanted to make sure you ladies have something to be getting on with.  

I did get a bit depressed about the more negative posts on here recently - so I haven't been as keen to dash onto the boards and respond to Qs and pms as I like to be - sorry if some of you are still waiting for a response.  I know that things have not gone well with Akbil being away, but some of the posts I felt were not entirely helpful.  I have never heard of any instance where Dr G has let anyone down in a genuine emergency - clearly he has to prioritise who he deals with when emergencies arise, and I felt that occasionally, people were expecting a bit too much.  I guess I have had many dealings with other doctors in the past who kept me waiting for far longer, had appalling people skills, who I didn't really feel knew their stuff, didn't make me feel like they cared at all, wouldn't listen to any of my suggestions and brushed off my questions without a logical discussion, and charged an awful lot more.

I know we all see enormous bills from Dr G during our Tx - but we have to bear in mind that a lot of those costs are going straight to TDL/RFU for tests or to the drug companies for meds - personally I am sure that if I did add up the cost of consults compared to the costs of tests and meds, the consult charges would be a very small proportion but completely essential - because without that, none of the rest would work out.  

Each time Dr G has to revisit our files to check his advice to us or to write a Px, it is a) work for him b) risk for him - as he is on the hook if he gives negligent advice.  To me, it seems only reasonable that he charges for that and £90 doesn't seem that bad compared to other private consultant's charges.  Even if I ask the GP for advice, I know she is getting paid for my appt by the government.    Obviously if you are doing your immunes together with your IVF with Dr G then it seems reasonable that the consults included in your IVF package price will probably include all/some of the immune bits and pieces along the way, but if you are only seeing Dr G for immunes and choosing to take your IVF business elsewhere e.g., because the travel is too difficult or you are getting a free NHS cycle, then the immune support from Dr G is valuable and I do think he is entitled to charge for it - after all if we didn't think it was going to make a huge difference to our chances, I don't think any of us would be going down the immunes route.

Everytime I have needed to see/speak to Dr G urgently e.g., to get a drip - he has always fitted me in (and other ladies I have seen at the clinic and 'met' here).  Obviously, he prefers his patients to have their drips with him (and for a lot of meds he can supply them in house too), but if I choose to go elsewhere for my drip/meds and ask him as a favour to let me have a Px to go to healthcare at home etc, then it seems only reasonable that its up to me to deal with the fact that that will take a bit longer and maybe need a bit more organising/hassle than going to his clinic where he can do the drip (or supply the exact meds) more easily in house.

I understand that Dr G has been made aware that there have been some grumblings on the thread and is taking it seriously.  But at the end of the day, all I want to see is for us all to get babies to take home (however that happens and whatever it takes to do that), and I think that is more likely to happen if we all try and be positive and bring each other up and deal with each others fears and 'bad scan/appt' days by bringing each other up, and giving tips and help, rather than dragging each other down and making other ladies expect the worst. 

I am a bit of a control freak now, so I would always try to be as organised as I can get around to with calendars, charts of results, lists of questions etc - and it is an approach I would recommend to anyone who feels that they need to feel more on top of their Tx to feel less stressed- and to get the most out of their appointment times (although I realise not everyone wants to deal with things that way, and some ladies would rather not know anything/question anything unless they really need to - and that is their choice).  There are many situations I can imagine where Dr G would want to defer answering a question until nearer the time, e.g., until you've done some of the initial Tx and, say retested, but generally, if you can sit down and sort your questions out before your appointment, you are more likely to remember what you want to ask, and then you won't have to keep calling back asking quite so many questions you think of later - although I always think of something afterwards.    All clinics are very different, and there may well be ladies who are more comfortable with a different set up - somewhere larger and more 'programmed' for example, and everyone has to do what feels right for them, and I would wish anyone who decides to go elsewhere the very best of luck, but some us have found the very flexible and individual approach with FGA, and the ability to pick from all the current immune Tx's (that I can think of, anyway) has suited us (and got us a result).  

Anyway, I am looking for lots of good news on the thread and lot of ladies moving forwards in their Tx in the next few weeks and months.  I'm hoping to post the FAQ in the next few days - if anyone has anything they really want to make sure is covered, then please pm now so I can check its in there (although I can't guarantee that a) I will know the answer or b) that I will get round to it this week - but I will see what I can do.  Obviously its an 'unofficial FAQ' without any input from Dr G and contains a lot of my own opinion - but I hope it will help someone.  Thanks to everyone who has helped/is helping me by proofreading it already.  If anyone knows the cost of the uNK biopsy - I'd like to know so I could put that in.  thanks.

I am not intending to go awol from the thread or stop trying to help - at least not until you all get your babies!   but I don't really know how the next few weeks will be or how I am going to cope with the reality of being a mum (assuming that nothing goes wrong - yes I am a real worrier - but hopefully I am worrying over nothing).


----------



## kdb

All the best for next week, Agate!


----------



## niccad

Agate - uNK biopsy was around £350 with Dr G... xxxxxx


----------



## ells

Agate - totally agree with your comments!    If it wasnt for Dr G we wouldnt be where we are today and I certainly would not have gotten my crohns under control.  The whole TTC is stressful and I think that sometimes we do get wrapped up into thinking about just ourselves and forget there are other patients that also need his help, Like you Dr G has always got back to me and sorted out the PX even thought there sometimes has been a wait but its been done.  
I am sure that everything will go well with your little one and you will make the transition into motherhood without any hitches!!   


Ells


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Great post Agate 
This whole tx thing is so very stressful that the best we can do I think is to help each other through it. I'm like you in that I take as much control as possible over things - I have it all clearly documented in my calendar and check/double check dates etc to minimise any last minute difficulties. That said, sometimes things do go wrong/are out of our control and thank goodness for FF in those times!
I'll give Dr G a call and provisionally book a drip for the 27th in case I am lucky enough to get a BFP. As you say if it's going to be Dr E and late in the afternoon that changes my schedule considerably (I usually go for the 10am slot...) so worth knowing in advance. I doubt I will get 2 HCG blood tests done only because my GP refuses to support me in this and I have no idea where else I could get them done without going into London and I simply won't be able to do that twice in that week. I will of course get some bloods done to check levels etc when I go in for the drip, but I doubt I'll be able to go back and check they are doubling. 
Still,


----------



## suitcase of dreams

...oops, posted too soon

was going to say still, that's a bridge I'll happily cross if I actually get a BFP   

And very best of luck to you over the next couple of weeks Agate - no one expects you to be popping on here every 5 mins when you have something else rather important to focus on!

Suitcase
x


----------



## Mousky

Agate - all the best for you and your family


----------



## agate

Ells, Kdb, mousky, niccad, suitcase - thanks.

I have just found out how to convert headings/bold/italics etc in word into headings in BB code (the stuff on FF) automatically - which is going to make things easier.  fab.


----------



## Louiseb26

Agate you have helped so many ladies and at times i don't know what i would of done without your help.
Wishing you all the best for the next couple of weeks...you will do just fine lovely   

Sending both of you a   

Lou xx


----------



## sarahh

Hi all, Lou - hope the scanner is working tomorrow    hope you are producing lots of lovely follies.    I had IVIG 6 days before EC and Intralipids 4 days before EC.  After EC I took pred with the first meal I had then a cyclogest pessary in the evening and then the day following EC I re-started Clexane 40mg in the morning, took pred (25mg) as normal, Gestone (100mg) in the morning and Cyclogest (1x400mg pessary) at night. 

I just wanted to say that I know my posts last week were negative but without going into detail, there are things that were honestly not right & not my fault.  I won't go into it any further but if I bought you all down then I'm sorry.  I'm afraid that I find the time from EC onwards very very hard (I know we all do) and I am negative as its my own little way of dealing with things - but I realise this is not constructive for all on here.  So sorry, I really will try not to be so negative but I'm struggling   

Agate, have you got anything about Assisted Hatching in your document?  I know it is something not everyone believes in but Dr G was saying that he had done some work on the zona (is it zona or zonal?) thinning and that is what he recommended on day 2 as there weren't enough spaces in the embryo to "bridge" (his words) safely.  He charges the same for this (£350) as AH.  I am sure you will have your baby safely in your arms very soon and you may be right about not having much time to yourself after that happens    

Ells, thanks for the PMA this morning hon   

Sarah x


----------



## Louiseb26

Sarah thanks alot lovely.Can i ask where you got all the other drugs from? Did you get them from Dr G? Just trying to sort out where to get the rest from.
Clexane,Pred,Gestone
No more   Hun,just   your doing really well and those beautiful little embies are snuggling in warm...stay strong lovely   

Lou xx


----------



## ells

SarahH 
*   THIS HAS WORKED YOU ARE PREGNANT   *

Ells


----------



## agate

SarahH: no worries lovely.  Lots of ladies post really pessimistic things and then a few days later announce their BFP, so I hope you are one of them!

I don't really know much about AH or zonal thinning - except to understand the idea.  I did have AH though, and it did work - but I relied on the embryologist giving me the right recommendation at the time.  I was a bit shell-shocked as our fert rate had been so poor on that last Tx that I wasn't really firing on all cylinders (and other non-TTC stuff was massively stressing me out too).  I haven't actually covered general IVF stuff in the FAQ - more just the immune side.  I'm sure there are a lot of ladies who know a lot more about the ins and outs of IVF itself than I do, although I guess I could sit down and write and see what I know if there is a need for it.  I did research a bit about different protocols and I did ask my clinic for a very specific protocol - but whether that made any difference I don't know - as I certainly got a rubbish fert rate on it.


----------



## sarahh

Lou b - I was lucky and got my Gestone, Pred, Clexane & Cyclogest on the NHS - have you asked your GP?? If not, I think a lot of ladies use [email protected] or Ali in Shadwell (think Agate was mentioning about him on a post a few pages ago so expect she knows  )

Got the Pregnyl from Dr G think it was £45 for 3 x 5,000iu ampoules.

Hope that helps.

Sarah x


----------



## agate

yes, my DH used to trot off to Rigcharm in Shadwell (somewhere on the DLR line I think) whilst I had drips or bloods or whatever, because they always had everything, were cheap and were helpful - I think they used to be called Ali's - or he is the boss or something, but the actual shop is called Rigcharm pharmacy.


----------



## sal2

thanks for all the advice all of you and esp you Agate, best of luck with your new babs


----------



## Louiseb26

Thanks Ladies...even tho i have asked the question twice   think I'm losing the plot   

Sarah i will have a chat with my GP first...thanks.


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies 

Lou - hope you get some lovely follies hun you will just keep positive and youl be fine soon    glad your having cuddles the drugs turn you into a right    see how i put a nice witch for you coz your normally so lovely it must be the drugs ,I got my drugs from asda handed in my px last night it takes 24 hrs and it was good price i had pred , gestone and the cyclogest and it came to £88 pleased with that 

Agate - Thanks for your help let me get it right so i lower the dose for a couple of weeks if ok then i can go back up i think if i go back up il go just for normal dose is that right god im rubbish   . You will be a brilliant mum and i think if we dont here from you as much in the first couple of weeks we all understand youl be having loads of cuddles and mega busy just being a mummy 

Agate I also wanted to let you know for future reference a lovey FF went to athens for LIT and asked DR T for me  if humira would still be in my system after 8 weeks as that will be the amount of time from last humira shot to e/t and he said thats fine im ready to go and all i need to do is STOP WORRYING  aww bless him     

Suitcase of dreams - Im not positive but im sure DR G is away on the 27th as that was when i was going to have my IVIG, Akvil said DR Eskander could do it but it wont be till 3 and then she wasnt sure it might be later but it was to late for me im sure she said DR G back on the 29th dont quote me tho id double check ,     BFP goodluck 

Sarahh- Chin up lovely   my friend from my clinic had the worst cycle ever out of 11 cycles and she had to have a 2 day transfer was so negative and now shes got a lovely lil girl shes a beauty so nothing is as it seems    YOU JUST NEVER EVER KNOW 

Hope all girls ive missed all well , its my birthday tommorow 39 ARRRGH i cant believe il be 39 i rem when i was 21    it still feels like yesterday 

Ladies we all have got to get our pma back we can do it, weve got plenty of more   too come on this thread we need some positivity 

R xxx


----------



## sal2

ratsy,happy birthday for tomorrow, mine too,34yrs..time flys by so fast,please god we dont have to wait much longer for our little miracles


----------



## ratsy

happy birthday for tommorow sal2   

R xx


----------



## ClaireBuc

Hi to everyone been catching up on your posts after being away.  

Sarrahh - I think we all have had a rant about our particular docs sometime and then they do something which makes us think they are fab again, unfortunately whilst going through this we are so dosed up with hormones that it's easy to get caught up in it all. I have had all my previous ivf's with barts but decided that i didn't want to proceed with them again as i didnt think they were treating me as an individual, but after a wobble a couple of months ago and which they were so understanding and helpful made me decide that i did want to conitnue with them, however this doesn't mean that they have been perfect and i have definately ranted about them. Getting it off your chest always helps so dont feel too bad.

Agate - hope everything is going smoothly and your feeling fine.

pigloo - My first treatment didnt include steriold or the clexane and got a bfn, however when they were included 20mg of clexane and .05 of dextamethasone I got the bfp's both times, the clexane prescribed isnt an amount which will harm you in any way as advised by docs, the steriods are here to help and i truly wouldnt consider my treatment without them now, i dont think you should be worrying about this.

Just a couple of questions, i note that a few of you have mentioned solgar protein drink, when should i start using it and would it benefit me to start now when i am looking to do the EC in september, and how often do you use them.

Still on cancellation waiting list for LIT but have booked an actual app for 30th August so hoping i can get in earlier aswell for 2 prior to treatment, do i need to book for the ivig as i have emailed Dr G but dont want to bother him unless i really have to as you have all stated how busy he is a mo.

And all you ladies who are concerned by having a bad tx, whilst my last one was a fet, I had horrendous stress, my mother in law was given two weeks to live three days before the transfer, my stepdaugter who is 19 told us she was pregnant (no competition there then) and out of five of my embies three died when thawed. whilst i didnt get the complete happy story we still got further than we had previously and the baby was really strong try not to stress but if you do dont think it will turn out badly.  I truly believe my probs are down to the immunes and whilst Mr G does have his faults i do have faith in what he is telling me about my immune issues and fingers crossed this will be out time 
And congrats to all those who got BFP's  

Claire x

Oh and happy birthday tomorrow for ratsy and sal2


----------



## Pigloo

Thanks claire - I did the solgar protien drink last time and i got 16 eggs, ended up with a chem preg but think that was due to immunes stuff/having Hidden C.  I was doing egg share and my recipient also got a BFP!

Start the drink as soon as you start stimming, I didn't bother in 2ww.

Pigloo x


----------



## SaffronXXX

G'd evening ladies,

I am just back from the clinc and feeling a bit exhausted after 5 hours of driving. It's day 9 of stimm and about a dozen follicles on each side, although they are not quite the right size yet. I am a bit concerned that my oestrogen level was 4000, although the nurse said it was fine. I guess I am feeling nervous as I had a severe OHSS last time and ended up in the hospital for 6 days. The clinc wants me to continue on stimm until Thursday and want to do another scan on Fri in preparation for EC on Mon. Has any of you had oestogen level higher than 4000 at this stage? If so what did your clinic say/do?? I have had no side effect from downreg or stimm so far but I felt slightly bloated this morning, which I mentioned to the clinc. Oh and after doing my menopur jab tonight I realised I am one dose of stimm short till my scan on Fri. AGHHH got to call the clinic tomorrow morning to see if they can post it to me! Really hope they can otherwise another long drive to Glasgow   Oh really hope this is not the start off all the drama!

SarahH - I was reading your post and in a bit of a panic here. You said "After EC I took pred with the first meal I had then a cyclogest pessary in the evening". Well, I have been taking pred 25mg since day 5 of stimm. Have I got this totally wrong? Was I meant to start after EC? Oh dear dear!

agate - I really think you are such a star.   You have no idea how much support you have given us all. Thanks again. I wish you all the best and can't wait to hear the news of your new baby in a few weeks' time.  

Hugs to you all X


----------



## SaffronXXX

Oh and I had ILs today for the 1st time. It went fine and only took about an hour. V happy


----------



## ClaireBuc

Thanks pigloo, how often did you take it.

Claire x


----------



## agate

yes, protein drinks are normally started at the start of stimms and then if you are at risk of OHSS (lots of eggs recovered etc) you may want to continue them until that risk is past as protein and fluids are essential for minimising OHSS.

Sal - no you were right to start pred day 5/6/7 - maybe SarahH was referring to what she did on EC day when she was nil by mouth (as you normally take pred with breakfast).  Can't rememember what my E2 levels were, sorry.  

Happy birthday to you and to Ratsy.

Ratsy: what I was trying to say is that I can't tell you for sure what is a safe dose of fish oil with clexane, but I was ok on about 1/4-1/3rd of the 1500mg dose I had been taking and I THINK you could TRY increasing it slightly after you are sure you are ok on that low dose with clexane - but I can't tell you for sure whether it will be safe - and I don't think I would be brave enough to go up as far as 1500mg whilst on clexane, personally.


----------



## sarita36

Hi all,


Just a quickie from me mainly to reply to Agate's post but also


Sarahh - sorry to hear that the 2ww is so stressful - and I can only echo what others have said - you just never know - I've heard countless stories of people getting pregnant on what they thought were not great cycles - a buddy on the ARGC thread who cycled at the same time as me had only one egg fertilised, a 2 day transfer and is now 20 weeks pregnant 


Agate - first of all I just wanted to say how much I appreciate all you do for us on this thread and others - you have been amazing at answering questions and really helped in every way. I really do wish you all the best for the next few weeks and will wait eagerly to hear news of the birth of your little one   


I agree with alot of what you have said - compared to my previous experiences of some drs Dr G is amazing - and in my first consult with him I was really impressed by the way he actually listened to me (as well as the fact that he's in contact with Penny and Toth and is the only dr so far that doesn't think I'm completely crazy!). That's why it was so hard for me when in my 2nd consult he appeared to have forgotten everything we agreed on and suggested entirely different things - then I called to get my AMH results and the phone just rang and rang - on my 5th try I got through to be told my results were awful and he told me its a miracle I got 5 eggs on my last cycle - but to keep downregging anyway (without explaining why). Honestly I just cried for the rest of the day. HOWEVER I strongly believe that this was just a difficult few days when his normal secretary was away - he was obviously incredibly busy and of course with a temp that's tough. 


I had another consult with him on Monday morning and he was brilliant - he took the time to explain absolutely everything and answer all my questions about why he'd wanted me to downreg - and he didn't flip out when I told him I'd just stopped taking the suprecur - which he would have been well within his rights to do! I think he's the only IVF dr so far that has ever really listened to all my issues and my faith has has been entirely restored. 


I'm sorry if any of my posts came off as negative, but it was so stressful to be about to start treatment with no idea how what would happen when he was away at the end of July or why he kept suggesting new tests every time I saw him and changing his mind about my options - and it was a relief to be able to post on this board so I didn't feel so alone. But I totally agree we just need to get our PMA back - we know he gets amazing results and treats us as individuals (unlike other clinics) - and I for one will try and be more patient in future.


Sarah xx


----------



## agate

don't know whether its me being hormonal or something... but some of you ladies' posts are so sweet I am ending up in tears!

thanks Sarah/sarita
have you got a new plan?
what was your actual AMH result?  only asking because there seem to be huge differences in how they are interpreted by different clinics.  I am beginning to think that some clinics who tend to towards a 'heavy duty' approach to stims (following the US mainly), seem to look for much higher AMHs, whereas those who go more towards a 'mild' approach (following some of the europeans), seem to regard much lower AMHs as normal.  I'm really not sure which approach is the 'best' for poor responders - I guess no-one knows that yet, but both schools of thought seem to have equally good arguments for their approach.


----------



## Saffa77

All the best Agate!!! Cant wait to hear all about it and now no thinking about these boards while you off - its all about your little precious girl now!  Cant wait to hear all about itx

Sx


----------



## ms_dee

Agate

Wish you an easy birth, a wonderful get-to-know time with your little girl! Thank you for all the help on this board. Even I have not posted much I did read all your replies and copied the information in a document for later reference. Just enjoy to be mom!!

Best wishes!

Dee


----------



## Louiseb26

Ratsy - Sal 




HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU.

HOPE YOU BOTH HAVE A LOVELY DAY.

          


         


Lou xx


----------



## ells

Ratsy and Sal, very many happy returns for today.  I hope you are both being spoiled rotten.  enjoy your days !!

Ells


----------



## thumbelina

Hi ladies   

Thank you so much for ur kind words.

I will attempt some personals but have missed so much.

Ratsy and Sal - Happy Birthday

Sarahh -      - Best of luck hun

Louiseb26 -     - Best of luck for ur tx

Mousky - Hope things are good with you xxx     

Agate - Thank you so much for all ur advice.. Im sooo happy for you.. really not long to go for you now and I cant wait to see photos of ur little princess. Best of luck for the labour     

Ells - Best of luck for ur scan on Friday     


Pigloo     

A big hello to all the ladies I have missed.

Its so hard to keep up.

Keep the faith.

Lots of love and      and     to all.

Love Thumbelina xxx


----------



## Louiseb26

Thunbelina how you doing my lovely?It nice to hear from you.Hope your doing ok   Thanks for the luck   

Does anyone know how much Merional is?

Lou xx


----------



## sarahh

Merional is £40something (think it might be £46) at Wellbeck Pharmacy, and its £50 at Dr G's, beyond that I don't know, sorry!!  How you getting on with those follies?  Have you had a scan today? 

Ratsy and Sal - hope you've had lovely birthdays.

Thumbelina - how you doing hon?   

Sarah x


----------



## Pigloo

Hi 

Clarebuc - I drank about a scoop of powder topped up with milk in a pint glass.  I read you get 16g of protien with the powder and then you can add in the milk protien that you mix it with.  I then tried to have meat/cheese/eggs etc to top my levels e.g.steak or chicken is about another 20g of protien, if i was short i would have another protien shake.  You need to be getting at least 60g protien a day so just try to be aware of what you are getting.  I looked up protien content in foods and found some lists on google.

Ratsy/Sal Hope you have a great Birthday

Saffron - hope you don't get OHSS this time, get your 2/3 litres water a day, I was at risk of it and i drank and drank, i literally had a bottle of water with me at all time (I bought the 6 pack lite bottles and made sure I had at least 2 a day) also milk is good and as Agate says keep your protien up.  It is hard to eat when you feel bloated so the protien shakes are handy.  Glad your ILs went well I have my first drips next week.

Hi everyone who I have not mentioned - I hope you are all tickety boo   

AFM - my Clex, Gestone and Pred arrived today, I wish I could stop worrying about taking the Clex and Pred (unmonitored), not sure whether to take them both, i'm even thinking of just taking the clex up to e/c and not after e/t.  

Pigloo x


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

Well, I'm hoping for 6th time lucky!!! Its been a pretty intensive ride since my last round but stimulation starts tonight! Yay! Galia was lovely this morning and Mr. Gorgy was as helpful as ever (I do like him alot and really appreciate his clinical open-mindedness / tailoring versus the usual one size fits all approach) so I'm just going to put my faith in him and go with the flow. 

Sarah, sending you lots of luck     

Sarita, hoping everything starts soon for you and it goes well too

Agate, I think of you every minute of the day, sending you a million good luck hugs for the hospital

Sal, happy birthday!!
Saffron, oooh that is alot of follies, keep drinking and eating protein   

Pigloo, I've had clex and prednisolone for 4 out of 5 of my last cycles and was not particularly 'monitored' but you always have to do what you are comfortable with

Hugs to everyone else....    

Diane x


----------



## Pigloo

Diane - when i say monitored did they do a regular blood tests to check your clotting levels while on the Clex, not sure if i'm making mountains out of mole hills, if lots of girls take it 'unmonitored' i wouldn't be too phased by it.  Its just certain things i've read say you should be..arghhhhh i'm not sure what to do for the best.  I don't have any thrombopihillias but Dr G just px'd it to help blood flow to uterus


----------



## Louiseb26

Hi Sarah

Thanks for the info   My follies are coming along just lovely.Dr G said i have quite alot.I'm still on 225 of fostimon,but dropping to 150 tomorrow.Then I'm back in on Friday for more bloods and a scan.

How are you doing Hun? Hope your not driving yourself to mad.

Lou xx


----------



## agate

Louiseb26 said:


> Does anyone know how much Merional is?


maybe see if ASDA will do it under fertility for cost promise? its cost price is £14 for 75 iu and 28 for 150 iu

Pigloo: I don't know if its any help but if you check out the pg with immune thread, you will see all(I think) the ladies on it had pred + clex - probably clex at much higher doses than you've been Px'd with - as there are ladies with factor V leiden etc. Clex honestly rarely needs any monitoring at all - and if you got any problems (i.e., bad unexplained bruises or nosebleeds) you would phone Dr G and/or get a factor Xa test which would prove to you that you aren't getting over-heparinised - but that basically never happens unless you have liver disease. I was nervous about it after I got a few nosebleeds (and I had all that heavy bleeding on and off up to about 15 weeks ish - for that I was told by Dr G to pause the clexane each time it happened) so I had a blood test - but it was fine - my heparin levels were ok. IVF clinics all over the world prescribe pred and clex to the patients (without testing and without monitoring - often just on the basis that if your IVF hasn't worked then something must be wrong) and if you have any immune probs at all, pred and clex are going to be your basic helpers to make your uterus a friendly place, not just for the new embryo, but as the placenta grows. I've noticed a lot of pg ladies at my local hospital antenatal are on clex during pg because its just such a common drug and is given as a precaution for anyone who is at higher risk (e.g., overweight, clotting issues, older, diabetes etc) - I've been on clex all the way through and the OB now wants me to stay on it until 6 weeks after birth - because I am scraggy, unhealthy old bird - they've never suggested it needed any monitoring.

Diane72, Thumbelina thank you. I hope you are ok?

Ladies:Just in case I don't quite finish it, I've put a draft of the immune FAQ on the investigations and immunology section, but am hoping to do a few more little tweaks when I hear back from someone who is reading it, probably tomorrow. Hope its helpful.


----------



## Diane72

Pigloo, I didn't have monitoring.

Thanks for the tips on Asda/Rigcharm agate. I might check out Asda and Rigcharm for my next lot of stimming drugs, I had no time today as I had to get to work so just got it from Mr. Gorgy so that I wasn't stressed about leaving work on time to get it but I should get some at the weekend. I've loads of clexane and gestone already as I had just got some before my last m/c and its all still in date thankfully.

Lou, what day of stimulation are you on? I'm on 300 Fostemon

Right must go make some dinner and then back to work stuff unfortunately   

Diane x


----------



## Louiseb26

Agate...all i can say is your a star   I have just read the immune FAQ on the investigations and immunology section. I wont need to pester anyone ever again   You are truly an amazing person...    

Diane - I have been stimming for 6 days now...I'm on 225 Fostemon dropping to 150 tomorrow. 
How you doing with it all lovely?


----------



## agate

its gone?  the immunes faq is gone?  I posted it, and now its not there.  Am I going crazy?  Have I deleted it my mistake? Would the mods have taken it down?  why would anyone take it down without even telling me?  I am so confused.  What could be so wrong with it that FF would remove it - and it posted fine and there were even some replies.  I totallly don't understand.

I keep looking in investigations and immunology and its not there. I don't understand.


----------



## Pigloo

Agate - thanks for taking the time to reply to me about this same issue (sorry to keep harping on   ) 

One more thing if you don't mind giving me your opinion, I have read one ff'r on either the Hidden C board or this one (can't think who it is and trawlled back but can't find the post and its getting late) had her immunes redone after clearing C and now her 50:1 immunes all within the normal range.  If by any chance   I have cleared C and this affects my immunes i.e brings them down into a lower range (My 50:1 is currently 21% and went down to 6% with ILs) will it be ok to take the drugs Dr Gorgy px'd for me back in May as I am not retesting C I won't know if its killed it or not? Also the fact that I'm getting my TSH down may well be lowering my Thyroid Antibodies.

I will pop onto the Investigations and Immunology section and have a read of the FAQs tomorrow, not long for you now hun and your little miracle will be here..how exciting!  

Diane  - thanks for your advice too

Luvvies to all, i'm off to bed now before I get square eyes   

Pigloo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## CLS

Diane & Lou - seems like we are all on similar timing. I'm on day 10 of stims and was scheduled for EC on Saturday but after today's appointment with Dr. Gorgy, looks like it may be postponed until Monday to give the follies more time to develop. I've been on 450iu of Merional for last 4 days and tonight am back down to 300iu which is hopefully a good sign.

Not great news from Dr. Gorgy today after my scan - he's worried that there may be some loose lining or a polyp in the uterus - to the point he talked about abandoning this IVF cycle and just freezing any eggs. Very disappointing as you can imagine. The thing is that I've had this 'appearing / disappearing foreign matter' showing up a few times. First was back in 2008 - the doctor was so convinced I had a polyp I underwent an operation to remove it but when he went in, there was nothing there! Then a few months ago Dr. G did a saline hysterography and thought he saw a polyp, but when he went to investigate it further, he couldn't find it anymore!

In any case, Dr. G is going to wait until my scan tomorrow to make a final decision. He did go on to say today that alot of women with polyps get pregnant. I really don't want to abandon this cycle if it can be avoided as time is ticking on my LIT, Humera and LIT treatments, and then there is the whole timing (I'm 42 in Jan), health (I suffer from chronic fatigue and all of this Tx and IVF treatment is taking a bit toll on my body) and financial implications (which we all worry about).

Anyway, I have total faith in Dr. G and am not worrying about it until I see him tomorrow and see what he thinks. What will be will be. Fingers crossed things are ok. In the meantime, I need my little follies to get moving - very jealous of your stimming status Lou!

If anyone else has had this happen to them (ie) had to abandon a cycle due to last minute problems such as polyps etc), I would really appreciate hearing from you. 

Costs for meds: I've got most of mine from Ali at Shadwell (Rigcharm Pharmacy) as he's not only cheaper than most (can certainly the clinci) but also he's been so helpful and friendly. A quick update to anyone buying Merional from Ali - he's just recevied his new delivery of Merional today and as he suspected, the price has gone up significantly. 150iu is now £46 and 75iu is now £23 - these are only a few poudns cheaper than getting them direct from Dr. Gorgy which is more convenient. 

Agate - like everyone else, I just wanted to say thanks so much for all the amazing help you've given us ladies on the Forum. Just knowing you are there has been a huge help to me and everyone else I'm sure. We are going to miss you! 

Big hello to everyone else!

Celia


----------



## agate

Pigloo said:


> Agate - thanks for taking the time to reply to me about this same issue (sorry to keep harping on  )
> 
> One more thing if you don't mind giving me your opinion, I have read one ff'r on either the Hidden C board or this one (can't think who it is and trawlled back but can't find the post and its getting late) had her immunes redone after clearing C and now her 50:1 immunes all within the normal range. If by any chance  I have cleared C and this affects my immunes i.e brings them down into a lower range (My 50:1 is currently 21% and went down to 6% with ILs) will it be ok to take the drugs Dr Gorgy px'd for me back in May as I am not retesting C I won't know if its killed it or not? Also the fact that I'm getting my TSH down may well be lowering my Thyroid Antibodies.


maybe it was actually Diane you were thinking of?
I am not sure you should expect your NKs to drop - it could be something else other than C causing their elevation - I GUESS you'd have to retest them to know - and then you'd want to discuss your whole immune picture with Dr G before making a big change to the plan?

I am still scratching my head about where the FAQ post has gone. I wanted to make sure it was up there just in case baby comes early or something and I run out of time... and I know I have fiddled with it a lot during the day trying to fix the formatting - so maybe there is some forum rule about how many times you can edit a post or something? But how can it just dissappear? I would ask the mods but I don't know who to ask? I don't know what to do - as its time consuming to post and sort out the formatting (again!)- and I don't want to do all that and then for it just to dissapear again if there is something I don't understand about how the boards work. I had to split it over 3 posts because it was too long to go in less - but if that was a problem you'd think it wouldn't have been ok for a few hours and then vanish? I am just so confused. I guess I have to go to bed and hope that I understand what happened tomorrow.

CLS: I hope its some sort of shadow or something that isn't really there. Maybe it could be fluid that could be aspirated out or something? I hope you get better news tomorrow.


----------



## Diane72

CLS, oh how frustrating but I would definitely take Dr. G's advice if a month with frosties is the difference between sustaining a pregnancy or not it may be worth it. If you are going to have to freeze anyway you could maybe think about doing CGH aswell and rule out any chromosomal issues and increase your chances of success after defrosting? Hopefully it'll all blow over and go ahead though   


Lou, good luck with the stimming, sounds like it is going really well   

Agate, I checked earlier and it was there (read the C bit and the very beginning but not the rest yet) but I just looked and you are right I couldn't find it. Maybe the moderator took it down until she checked with someone else that it is alright. However, I would have thought it would be a common courtesey to let you know-bizarre.    Lets see if its there tomorrow or not and then maybe we can ask any of the moderators who to ask about it. 

Pigloo, my NKs and cytokines went into the normal range after antibiotics for C, LIT, humira and laparoscopy to remove endometriosis- I can't guarantee which bit made the difference but something definitely did

Hugs to all

Dx


----------



## MissyMinx

Hi Ladies,  

Sorry for not posting much, but huge    to all the F&G ladies.  I'm in limbo land atm, but wanted to send you all my very, very best.

Agate, I'm not sure where the FAQ doc has gone, I was hoping to read it in full and when I went back to start, it'd disappeared    .  I sincerely hope that it's back soon, it's going to be invaluable to us immune ladies.  If you want - email it to me, I can always post it/send it on to anyone who'd like a copy should you become 'otherwise engaged' with your LO in the immediate future    

Lots of love to all the F&G ladies.

Em.x


----------



## Newday

has anyone got the fax number for [email protected]?
Thanks
Dawn


----------



## agate

Dawn: I have this written on a scruffy bit of a paper.  So I hope its right.  0871 9896343

I got a polite pm saying that that the FAQ is being 'moderated' and an offer to help make it more attractive (but I don't feel I can cope with doing much more on it at the moment) - hope it doesn't take too long.  Yes, I'll email it as it is now to Missyminx just in case I vanish and anyone is in urgent need, and I would like it to be 'beautiful' and 'perfect' eventually.... if I get round to it...yawn!


----------



## ells

Dawn the number I have for [email protected] is 0800 3285 323

   to everyone.

Ells


----------



## sal2

thanks ladies for the birthday wishes,went out for a meal and going again tomorrow with the women.
thanks again

agate, just wondering does anyone know the does etc of ABs from penny if going ahead with ivf and c isnt gone..


----------



## agate

did you ask that a couple of days ago on the C thread?  maybe it was someone else? I'm sure someone answered a question like that a couple of days ago on there (on the greece section of the board).


----------



## niccad

Just a quick one:

Agate - in case you have to rush off I wanted to say best of luck. You have been so amazing on this thread (and on FF as a whole). I don't know how I'd have coped without you xxxxxxx

Lou and Diane - sending loads of good luck your way for stimming. Hoping you make some lovely juicy eggs and that the cycle is nice and stress free xxx

CLS - I hope that today went well x

Sarah - hope that you're resting up...     

Sorry that i've missed soooo many people
x


----------



## TSP

Hi Girls,
Long time no post - I just has by NK's tested at Serum & they way they report the results is completely different to Chicago so I'm kind of confused. Apparently I don't need IVIG but i'm kind of worried I'd really like to understand what I'm looking at a bit better if any of you can shed some light I'd be delighted. I can see where my NK level is too high - 319 instead of (80 -170) but I'm totally confused by the CD56+, CD16-, CD3- being within normal range?  I don't think I've ever had levels for *CD16-* and *CD3-* before. What do the- and + signs mean? Thanks a million TSP

*W.B.C Count: 12,780/ul*
*Differential count % Concentration(cell/ul)*
Neutrophils 87 11,118
Lymphocytes 10 1,278
Monocytes 1 128
Eosinophils 1 128
Baseophils 1 128

*Lymphocyte Immunophenotypic Analysis*

* % Concentration (cells/ul) Typical Range*
Total Lympocytes 1,278 (1,000 - 3,5000)
CD3+ - T Lymphocytes 63.5 812 (1,000 - 2,500)
CD19+ - B Lymphocytes 11.5 147 (100-500)
CD3+, CD16+, CD56+ - NK Cells 25.0 319** * (80 - 170)

*Analysis of T Lymphocytes* 
CD4+ - T helper Lymphocytes 61.5 499 (500- 1,500)
CD8+ - T cytotoxic Lymphocytes 35.2 286 (250 - 1,000) 
CD3+, CD16+, CD56+ - NK like T Cells 3.3 27 (15 - 350)

*NK Cell Analysis*

CD56+, CD16+ 60.2%
CD56+, CD16- 9.5%
CD56-, Cd16+ 30.3%

*Results: The NK cell population was found to be increased compared to the mean value of the general population*. The proportion of endometrial type NK cells (CD56+, CD16-, CD3-) were found within normal range (normal % in fertile subjects 5.5%)*


----------



## agate

TSP said:


> Hi Girls,
> Long time no post - I just has by NK's tested at Serum & they way they report the results is completely different to Chicago so I'm kind of confused. Apparently I don't need IVIG but i'm kind of worried I'd really like to understand what I'm looking at a bit better if any of you can shed some light I'd be delighted. I can see where my NK level is too high - 319 instead of (80 -170) but I'm totally confused by the CD56+, CD16-, CD3- being within normal range?  I don't think I've ever had levels for *CD16-* and *CD3-* before. What do the- and + signs mean? Thanks a million TSP
> 
> *W.B.C Count: 12,780/ul*
> *Differential count % Concentration(cell/ul)*
> Neutrophils 87 11,118
> Lymphocytes 10 1,278
> Monocytes 1 128
> Eosinophils 1 128
> Baseophils 1 128
> 
> *Lymphocyte Immunophenotypic Analysis*
> 
> * % Concentration (cells/ul) Typical Range*
> Total Lympocytes 1,278 (1,000 - 3,5000)
> CD3+ - T Lymphocytes 63.5 812 (1,000 - 2,500)
> CD19+ - B Lymphocytes 11.5 147 (100-500)
> CD3+, CD16+, CD56+ - NK Cells 25.0 319** * (80 - 170)
> 
> *Analysis of T Lymphocytes*
> CD4+ - T helper Lymphocytes 61.5 499 (500- 1,500)
> CD8+ - T cytotoxic Lymphocytes 35.2 286 (250 - 1,000)
> CD3+, CD16+, CD56+ - NK like T Cells 3.3 27 (15 - 350)
> 
> *NK Cell Analysis*
> 
> CD56+, CD16+ 60.2%
> CD56+, CD16- 9.5%
> CD56-, Cd16+ 30.3%
> 
> *Results: The NK cell population was found to be increased compared to the mean value of the general population*. The proportion of endometrial type NK cells (CD56+, CD16-, CD3-) were found within normal range (normal % in fertile subjects 5.5%)*


If a cell marker (CD) has a + next to it that means cells with the marker. if it has a minus, it means cells without. So CD56+CD16+ are cells with the marker 56 and the marker 16. CD56+CD16- means cells which have 56 but not 16. Does that make sense?

I can't help a lot with understanding the results though - but I can see that they don't measure killing power, just the population of different cells in your blood.

Niccad: thanks!! I'm sure the other ladies on the pg with immunes thread in the pg chat section would love to hear from you if you have time.


----------



## TSP

Thanks Agate, ya it's wierd that they don't measure killing power - I didn't realise that til I got the results back. I assumed it would be the same as the chicago tests that I've had done through the ARGC & Dr Gorgy in the past   Best of luck with you impending delivery


----------



## Louiseb26

Agate looks like i need to pester you again   I'm going to pick the rest of my px today...they had to send the Clexane back as it was an opened box and they didn't want to sell it to me like that.
Anyway,I'm going to take the Clexane to night.What should i do about taking it in the morning? Would it be to close to each other if i did that? 
I don't know what to do   

Lou xx


----------



## agate

what day of stimms are you, Lou?
how long until you GUESS you will have ET?

your chemist are a lot fussier than mine - for some stupid reason they always have an open box containing 7 in stock so each time I get 7 from this Px and then get the other 3 plus another 7 next week... so bizarre.


----------



## agate

if you really need to start it today, then I'd either stick with the same time until you stop on the night before trigger - or otherwise, move it forwards each day by 2 hours.  so, say 7pm today... 5pm tomorrow, 3pm next day etc until you get to the morning - and your last one before EC would then be on the morning of trigger day (assuming trigger time will be later that night).


----------



## CLS

Lou - not sure if its any help but I had to do similar the other day. Dr. Gorgy told me to take one when I got home from my appointment with him (which was 4pm) and then the next one first thing the next monring (and then same time thereafter). 

Niccad - thanks for the well wishes. The scan showed the follies coming along slowly. Dr. G is still worried about the 'shadow / polyp' but agreed we'd go ahead with EC (Monday at the earliest) and then he'd just monitor me next week while I'm taking the gestone and make a decision from there re: ET or no ET. I'm in for IVIG tomorrow and then another scan and bloods on Saturday so we'll see what happens after that. 

Celia


----------



## Louiseb26

Agate this is day 7 for me.I didn't get what they were saying...if the box's are not opened and its only the box there in then whats the problem.But they said they have to go back   

I will start moving it closer tomorrow...thanks again   

They don't seem to have put the FAQ back yet? will it go back up tonight.

CLS thanks alot lovely...this is all getting a bit crazy. Hope your doing ok


----------



## agate

Lou: I'm waiting to hear back from the mods - it sounds as though it will be fine - but I don't quite understand the instructions they gave me so I asked for it to be explained to me - hopefully can be sorted quickly - maybe not today though - and I've got other stuff to do tomorrow at least for a big chunk of the day.  If you want an email copy in the meantime - please pm me your email address.

CLS: well I hope its just fluid or something else that vanishes and then everything can slot into place.  Good luck for some good steady follicle growth over the weekend and an easy EC next week.


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies im confused about clexane now ive read your posts   

Why do i have to take it in the morning is there a reason if i have mine in the morning il have to get up at 4.30 for dp to do them as i cant do the needles im no good at that    so will that matter at 4.30 ive got have my gestone at 4.30 aswel as DR G said ive got to have it in morning DP gone by 5 

Thanks girls appreciate your help   

Lou how fussy are your chemist ive got most my stuff in extra packets 

Agate I read you immune paper OMG its fantastic that must of taken you hours and hours and very very thoughtful of you to do so , Its fab i loved reading it esp the things i still didnt know its so helpful   

Hi ladies hope all are well cant believe the    ooh its awful im  missing the   

R xx


----------



## sarahh

Ratsy - I have always been told by Dr G to take Clexane in the morning - don't know why but I tend not to question - and yes, the Gestone in the morning too (and then the pessaries at night - its better that way around   )  

CLS - hope that you can continue with your EC and ET    that it all works out ok for you. 

Loub - weird about the Clexane - the syringes are in sealed packets so what difference does it make if the box is not full?!  Good luck with taking it - and a few hours earlier each day sounds like a good plan.  Any idea when EC is going to be for you??    

Sarah x


----------



## agate

ratsy: the main reason for taking clex in the morning is so that in the very unlikely situation that you need to do a heparin blood test, it will be easier - heparin blood tests have to be done 2-3 hours after your normal daily clexane shot time - but its pretty unlikely you would ever need one.  The only other reason is that you can have your clex as normal on the morning of trigger day, whereas if you do it at night you'd have to skip it on trigger night - but I don't think that is a big deal. 

You might want to try and do your own clex shots (I have hangups about some needle things too - so I do get it) - but clex is pretty easy compared to, say, gestone - and if you get pg you may be taking them for a really long time - so maybe DH couldn't always be there at the same time each day to give them to you?


----------



## Pigloo

Hi ladies

Can I jump in on the timings re Clex and Gestone as I was never told by anyone when to take this and it doesn't say on my meds.  My DPs Cousin was going to give me my Gestone (shes a midwife) do I have to take both of these drugs at set times of the day and stick to them.  I'm just thinking if DPs cousin is working shifts she may not always be able to do them and first thing on a morning is going to be out, could I do Gestone on an evening and cyclogest on a morning?

Thanks 
Pigloo x


----------



## agate

pigloo: I did cyclogest morn and aft and then gestone at night - so I would think gestone at night will be fine.


----------



## suitcase of dreams

I do (and always have done) both clex and gestone at night (around 9pm) - no way I could face them when I've just got up!
Seems the only reason to do morning would be if you needed a blood test, but this seems quite unlikely anyay...

Suitcase
x


----------



## ratsy

Thanks Agate 

I might try myself the clexane im scared tho what a baby iam     im going to have to do my Gestone in the morn as DR G has only given me pessaries once a day at night he said 

Do you think it will be ok the gestone at 4.30 i def cant do them on my own i havnt got the guts kara used to on my thread shes like wonder woman with those needles 

Do you think it matters what time you take gestone or should i stick with DR G said 

Thanks 

R xxx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

I do my own gestone too Ratsy - first couple of times is tough but after that it's not too bad...I stand in front of a full length mirror so I can be sure I'm getting it in the right place
TBH, I feel better doing it myself/being in control, not sure I'd want anyone else doing it (unless it was a nurse of course and I haven't got one of those who can pop round every day unfortunately!)

Suitcase
x


----------



## agate

Ratsy: why don't you ask kara?  I never did my own gestone - My fingers are very weak now - so I'm not even sure I would be strong enough to do it at such an awkward angle - but you (everyone!) are probably a lot stronger than I am.  I really can't see why you couldn't do them at 4.30am if you need to though.


----------



## Louiseb26

Agate I'm glad there going to put it back up.All as girls were on the search   I wonder why Dr G hasnt put Gestone on my px...is that right.   
Ratsy how you doing lovely   I got my bits from Asda.When i picked up the rest of my px,i asked why they needed to go back if there in there own sealed box.4 of them were not sealed,so they sent the lot back   How was the birthday meal last night...hope you enjoyed yourself   

Sarah - How you doing lovely? I'm sure its me...theres always something not right.Think they were being extra careful.I tell you what...they bloody sting   
I haven't been given a date yet for EC...might know more tomorrow.   

Niccard how you doing Hun? Thanks for you luck   It all going to plan and I'm nearly all baked   

Lou xx


----------



## ratsy

Suitcase - I take my hat off to you i could never do them i cant even look at the needle your so brave 

Agate - no the gestone are definatly not for me to do i honestly couldnt im so scared of that needle its huge i know it doesnt hurt but i cant look at that needle . Il have to have proper think and decide whens best to do them thanks    

Lou - yello missy my meal was lovely thanks we had carvery i had loads of birthday gifts loads of chocs and wine which i cant have    so dp will be happy , Thats abit rubbish asda doing that but spose at least you know they are bothered its good isnt it i got phone call today to pick my drugs up its so handy , how are the mood swings is you dh safe in house with you      Id phone DR G tomo and ask him bout gestone praps he forgot ,goodluck for scan tomo txt me after you have it   

Sarahh- how you doing lovely you ok   

Looks like alot of us will be cycling together or around summer time Goodluck ladies      

R    xxx


----------



## Pigloo

Thanks girls - yes the Gestone needle is way SCAREYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY MARYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!


----------



## agate

Lou - possibly he is going to get to that when you get to EC?  or maybe he thinks from your test results/history you don't need it.


----------



## Zeka

Hello everyone, 
Sorry I've been awol for so long. I've been snatching seconds to read  each day (...not sure if anyone notices me taking my phone to the loo when I pop off for five mins here and there at work!    ) but I've been keeping up with what you've all been up to and how you are all getting on. Big hugs to you all! 

No major news from me - just been on the abs, d/r, and now the old witch is here I hope to start stims on Tue. I've been trying to keep it all very low profile before the tx kicks off in earnest...and this is the first time I'll be working though IVF so trying to carry on as normal without anyone noticing.    THankfully I've got nearly 2 weeks booked off at the end of the month to get me through it all and a couple of sick days may do the trick.

Love to all,
Zeka x


----------



## Pigloo

Aw girls I just have to show you our new furbaby (Alfie the Airedale Terrier  ) we getting him on Saturday

http://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo?album_id=429399422&photo_id=775125597

Hope the link works 

Pigloo x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Pigloo - so cute   

Ratsy - yes, needle for gestone looks scary but really it's fine, especially if you stick an ice pack on first to numb the area. Besides I'm single so needs must really - I wouldn't be able to get someone to keep coming round to do it for me.....

Good luck to everyone starting tx round about now    
Suitcase
x


----------



## woodwitch

Awwwwwwww- Pigloo - my heart is all a flutter! He's gorgeous!

Woody


----------



## Rose39

Pigloo - just had to say your puppy is soooo cute!!!   

Ratsy - good luck with the gestone. Like Suity, I do my own injections - you do get used to it and the anticipation is much worse than actually doing the jab, though I do use the blue smaller needle to inject rather than the big green one!    It's not as bad if you warm the gestone before injecting (in your hand or in your bra)... goes in much easier.

Agate - so hope your immunes guide gets put back soon. I skim read it last night and was going to have another browse at it this evening. Thank you so much for doing this!   

Suity - hope you are coping ok hunny.... keeping everything crossed for you.    

News from me is that anxiety for my upcoming tx is kicking in - not specifically the FET bit, but more about the logistics of arranging the immunes treatment beforehand. I'm feeling concerned about whether Dr G will be able to fit me in for LIT before I have my tx at the end of August - am on the waiting list, but am not very confident about it happening. Am also concerned about whether my blood donor for LIT will be allowed to be my donor, as she's about to have tx herself, and it obviously wouldn't be right if giving blood compromised her own chances in any way. If I don't get to have LIT (my key result for LAD was 38.8%), could I still help address the issues with intralipids, steroids, clexane etc.? (I've already had humira which has worked well). I'm trying to think positive about plan B, in case plan A (having LIT) is abandoned at the last minute for either of the reasons above. Even though this will be my 8th tx, it doesn't ever seem to get any simpler!   

I've bought a hypnotherapy CD on thinking positive, which I'm trying to listen to every night, to combat this anxiety!   It's partly because I'm the kind of person who likes to plan things, and leaving things open-ended is quite hard for me! (please feel free to give me a telling-off about this!)   

Rose xx


----------



## woodwitch

Rose - what kind of donor would you need? I know my DQ Alpha and have been wondering about offering to donate in case anyone is desperate.....but I don't know if latent C and latent TB would make me a tad unattractive   . Does anyone know, just out of interest? 

Woody


----------



## Louiseb26

Agate I'm seeing him tomorrow so i will ask him   

Ratsy I'm starting to feel alot more   DH is safe for the moment   

Pigloo i want him...he is so cute.Bet he is really tiny.DH wont let me get a dog   

Zeka you made me   going off to the loo.Thats great your be starting stimms next week...not far behind Hun.And not long before you have some time booked off...good for you   

All this talk about the Gestone might just not bother   sounds like a nasty one.


I'm off to get some ZZZzzzzz   


Lou xx


----------



## sarahh

Woodwitch - I don't think TB can be passed through the blood so I don't think that would be an issue and similarly I would suspect that C is not blood borne but I am no expert!  Have you had any more success in deciding what you are going to do? 

Lou - good luck for today    It sounds like you have lots of nice eggies in there so I pray this is your time   

CLS - hope you doing ok too and that Dr G has come up with a plan for you and that you can progress to ET next week   

Re: Gestone jabs, yes the needle is scary & huge but it really does not hurt too much, just the initial "prick" (  ) then it goes in no prob at all!!!  I do them myself too and not much hassle just pinch a bit of skin and plunge it in - just get a nurse to show you the right sort of area to do it as that is quite important basically you divide your bum cheek in four quarters then inject in the upper outer quarter (i.e. nearest your hip bone) and bingo.  And stick the vial of gestone in your bra for a good 5 mins to warm up first and it injects quite easy.  

The Clexane jabs shouldn't really be much worse than the stim jabs - Lou - I have found that they can sting a bit sometimes, try going a little slower with the plunge that might make a difference.  

Zeka - your turn soon      

AFM - well I'm just trying not to think too much.  I have some niggles now and again then nothing and I flit between thinking its all gone and then not so who knows, as we all know from bitter experience nothing tells us until bloomin' test day so here's counting down the days.  My mum is taking my DD back to her house for the w/e so DH and I have a quiet one but we might try to get out and do something to keep our mind occupied but I'm a bit of a strange one because at times like this I'm sometimes just best on my own.....!!!!!  

Agate & Ells, hope you have some good news today     

Pigloo - v. cute puppy - you are gonna have your work cut out with that tiny one - but at least he will keep your mind off other things! 

Hope the weather picks up a bit - was hoping to spend a nice relaxing weekend in the garden - but think i might get a bit wet at this rate!!!  Come on sun, come back and cheer us all up. 

Sarah xx


----------



## Bling1975

Hi girls, I have been away for a couple of days and you have written so much that I have trouble catching up. But I am very glad to hear that things in Dr Gs office have calmed down. I was a bit worried for next week. I am so nervous any way because of the language, I get so insecure about everything when I have to struggle to find the right words.

I am going to try to get a complete treatment plan for my upcoming FET now when all my levels look good. I hope to get my Swedish doctor to write NHS prescriptions for Clexane and prednisolon, but he might still be on holiday when I need them so I would like a months supply to be on the safe side. I will leave the same afternoon as my appointment so we will be a bit stressed. Does Dr G have meds in stock so I can buy them from him and get them straight away? Or does anyone know of a pharmacy close by that keep them in stock?

I have had Humira and LIT and my TNF-a and LAD is now fine, I am also on aspirin. We have one DQ-a match but no other issues. Do you think Dr G will prescribe anything else besides clexane and prednisolon before retesting if I get a BFP?


----------



## agate

Bling: I think you will find that several pharmacies near to Dr G will keep clex and prex in stock e.g., welbeck and wimpole.  You might save some money if you travelled a little further e.g., to Rigcharm in Shadwell but you'd have to go on the tube and DLR - depends how much the price difference is and how much time you have available as to whether its worth it.

Because of the DQa match I think Dr G MIGHT suggest intralipids.  I am pretty sure Care and SIRM would too because that is their standard protocol for DQa.


----------



## Bling1975

Thanks Agate, we will see if Dr G is on time or if there is any emergency that come before us, as I only need 1 months supply price is not that important. Do you think IL even though I responded much better to Ivig in the test tube? Or do you "save" the Ivig if a retest after a BFP show raised NKs or TNF-a?


----------



## agate

Bling: that makes it tricky - because of course IVIg is much more expensive.  I don't really know what Dr G will suggest.  I don't THINK he would want you to wait for a retest though - because early pg is probably the trickiest time if there is a DQa problem.  Unfortunately, with a partial match, you just don't know whether you will get a matched embryo or not.  All I know for sure is that SIRM would say ILs because they don't use IVIG anymore, only ILs.


----------



## Bling1975

Thanks Agate, I guess that is one of the things we have to really talk trough with Dr G. 

I can't believe it is only 19 days left for you, time really flies. Your bump was so small when we met in Athens for my first LIT. You must be so exited. I hope everything goes really well and that you soon get to meet your baby.


----------



## Mousky

Hi everyone,


I haven't been posting but I'm trying to keep up with your progress   


btw, ratsy and sal -    (belated   ) I hope all your dreams come true! btw, ratsy, 39??   


Bling - I'm also going to see Dr G and I'll also need to get some meds on the same day. I thought about trying Rigcharm as I hear they're cheaper and usually have it all but now I'm wondering if I should just try to arrange something with [email protected] or ASDA as they might be even cheaper   


Sarah - this is never easy, is it? Sending some      your way   


Suitcase - how about you? you should be testing soon?    


CLS - I hope it all works out for you!   


Pigloo - I love Alfie. He looks like our yorkie (did) but a bit bigger   


Lou, Niccad, Zeka, Ells, Thumbelina, Diane, Rose, Woody, Saffron and everyone I've missed - I hope you're well   


Agate - I thought you would be gone by now    Are we going to get news about you and your little girl?    I'll be checking for updates and I hope you'll sms someone once she's with you    btw, I'd like to echo what the others have already said, many, many thanks for setting up the FAQ. I just had a quick look and it's fantastic      


afm, a question    why do we have to d/r before FET? I mean, I hardly ever ovulate so no surprises there and I did really badly once I d/r. My cons is on hols until the 9th and if he insists on d/r before FET, it will take forever!    I might just tell him I don't want to    


xx


----------



## woodwitch

sarahh said:


> Woodwitch - I don't think TB can be passed through the blood so I don't think that would be an issue and similarly I would suspect that C is not blood borne but I am no expert! Have you had any more success in deciding what you are going to do?


The letter from Dr G to be passed on to my GP to refer to a specialist has not arrived - so Dr G is doing it again. I think they need to change their administrative practices because they say they don't keep copies on file - so there isn't really any confirmation that is was written or when.

I am having a very sad day today so I am not up to doing personals, I'm afraid.

My lovely sweet dog Xena died today - it was a big shock.

My other dog Zoe (her sister) is still in hospital recovering from spinal surgery. Please everyone pray she comes home tomorrow safely.

They are my family.

Woody


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies 

Mousky - How rude laughing at my age     

Woodwitch - Really sorry to here about xena you must be devastated i really hope zoe comes home well tomo      

Take care lovely she will be ok   

Hope you ladies have good weekend 

R   xxx


----------



## Diane72

Oh Woody, I'm so sorry to hear about your dog    How upsetting, sending you lots and lots of hugs, hope Zoe is OK   

Mousky, good luck with the FET!

Agate, still thinking of you

Bling, Mr.G. has many meds in stock but if not as there are loads of fertility clinics that are based in Wimpole Street/Harley Street all the pharmacies round there have fertility meds. in stock although the ones further afield are cheaper as other have highlighted.

Sarah,Suitcase     

Lou, Ratsy, CLS how are you doing?

Rose,  I see on the LIT board that there is somewhere else in London now doing LIT if Mr. Gorgy can't fit you in. Also Greece is an option. Do you have a DQ Alpha match with your DH? If not it might not be so important.

Pigloo, congrats. on the furbaby!

Hope everyone else is doing OK

Day 3 of stimulation for me. My left ankle has blown up and is pretty painful but don't really know why. I phoned Mr. Gorgy in case it is related to any of the meds. but he does't think it is so maybe I strained it in some way but just didn't realise it. Work has been so busy lately and I have been literally running for trains to get to meetings all over the place so maybe I did something but just didn't realise it    Feeling headachey and tired so better increase my fluid intake   Blood test tomorrow and a scan on Monday

Diane x


----------



## Zeka

Woody, sorry to hear your news. Big hugs and hope your other little doggie is ok. 
Zeka x


----------



## Peanuts

Hi girls

Sorry don't have time to catch up properly, but thinking of you all    

Diane - wow, congrats on strating stimms, keeping fingers crossed for scan and bloods tomorrow       .  Take it easy on that ankle pet, no more running for trains!  be thinking of you and DH and hoping for great news from you           

Zeka - good luck for starting stimms hun - keeping everything crossed for you       

CLS - hoping thing work out hun    

AFM- had 12 week scan today, all went well bubba jumping about!  Might start to believe things now!

Big hug   and positive thoughts to everyone       
Dxx


----------



## Diane72

Peanuts,

12 week scan-woooohoooo!!!      YAY!

Diane x


----------



## Pigloo

Woody - So sorry to hear about your dog Xena, thinking of you hun, we lost our dog in January and we still miss her.  Sending lots of     for your other dog Zoe   

Peanuts - glad everything looks great on scan.

Agate - I have looked through your FAQ and its blinking marvellous, you clever,clever girl.  Wishing you all the best with things my lovely and make sure you post pics!   

Pigloo x


----------



## Zeka

Peanuts, congrats of your scan! What a lovely milestone, you must be v happy to see bubs bouncing around!
Oh I so hope to get somewhere with this cycle so thx for good wishes all.  This is the one btw!!!
Zeka x


----------



## sarahh

Woodwitch - so sorry to hear about your dog, hope your other one comes home well tomorrow    

Diane - good luck for stimms    are you cycling with Dr G or elsewhere?  
CLS - hope all is ok for you

Peanuts - great to hear that you have got to 12w and all is well    

Sarah x


----------



## Louiseb26

Evening All 

Had my scan today and all looks well  I'm booked in for EC on Friday  
I'm back in on Monday for IL,bloods,scan.I must say I'm getting really nervous...I'm sure I'm losing the plot  
I did make Dr G laugh today.I said to him has anyone ever said that you look like the England football manager.He thought it was really funny as he was stopped a couple of weeks ago as someone thought it was him  

Agate thanks for the FAQ and you were spot on with the Gestone,my levels are ok so i wont be having them...thank god if there not very nice. Sending a big  to you both.

Woody I'm so sorry to hear your news...Chin up my lovely 

Diane hope the ankle sorts it self out...it funny how we do things to ourselves and don't know how we done them...rest up Hun.Looks like your not that far behind me,we need some BFP on here 

Mousky i got my meds from Asda Clexane 20mg £30.29 x10 Clexane 40mg x14 £56.50 Pred 25mg x56 £30 £116. [email protected] wanted £158 and Sainburys wanted £157 hope that helps 

Sarah sounds like your keeping it all together lovely.This is going to be our time...i have a good feeling about it  Have a nice relaxing weekend to yourself...bet you don't know what to do with yourself 

Ratsy it was a pleasure as always.Tell DP that i have bigger muscles than him now...These protein drinks make you pile on the pounds  

Peanuts thats brilliant hun...cant belive its 12 weeks already.Made up for you lovely 

Pigloo when are you picking up your little puppy...im so jealous 

Big  to all you lovely ladies...its the weekend (yay)

Lou xx


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies

Ive recently bought protein shakes but there not the solgar ones i just bought normal protein shakes from health shop its got whey protein in them do you think they are ok 

Thanks girls hope you all have a fab weekend   

R    xxx


----------



## agate

I'm sure they are fine ratsy - the ones to really avoid are the american ones with sodium cyclamate in them (a bit of aspartame or saccharine probably isn't go to be too much of a problem - but you'd probably want to avoid those when you get your BFP)- if they are heavy on saturated fat - try and find somewhere else to cut saturated fat from in your diet to balance it out.


----------



## Swinny

Hi girls

Peanuts - Congratulations my lovely I am so happy to hear that everything is going well. You, Cozy, Agate and Berry are my inspiration. Well done on this marvellous milestone   

Cozy text me earlier in the week to say that her and baby are doing really well. I sent her all of our love xx


----------



## agate

Swinny: that is so fab about Cozy.  It initially sounded so frightening, but now it just seems that she was actually really lucky in one way, and that everything is going to turn out fab.


----------



## ratsy

Hi 

Thanks agate i just had a look and it hasnt got any of those ingredients in it and it says its aspartame free 

Peanuts - excellent news lovely congratulations   

Cozy - brilliant news glad you and  LO all ok 

Lou - did you manage to get your vits ,Lovely chatting last night you do make me laugh your mad     

Hope all you ladies having a fab weekend and enjoying sun while its out 

R    xxx


----------



## CLS

Hi ladies,

Just back from Dr. Gorgy's and we had an interesting chat today and yesterday that I thought might be useful to share.

While he was linking me up to IVIG yesterday, he started talking about the clinic. He looking to change the setup as he's aware that he's getting busier but doesn't want to let down any of his patients. He said he spends so much time on the phone to patients it takes up alot of practical work time as well as personal time after he gets home each day, but he understands phone calls with patients is an important part of his service. He's currently advertising for nurse but I get the feeling he's looking at employing someone else as well. I asked him if that person would be a 'mini-Dr. G' (ie) be able to deal with medical-related things but would free him up to do the more important elements of patient treatment, and while he is thinking about it, he said the problem is that he would have to train them exactly how he does things - which makes sense but probably worth the upfront investment (time and money). We also had a good chat about Akvile and how good she is - he's keen to get her more involved in the treatment side of things if possible.

From what he said, I get the feeling Dr. Gorgy's family are suffering from him being so busy (hence his weekend away next week and holidays in August), but there is no doubt he just wants the best for his patients and wants to find the best way to do that (when he has time!). 

As far as my own treatment story, well that continues to get more interesting!

Even though Dr. Gorgy is still worried about the 'shadow' in my uterus, he's keen to go ahead and do the EC and then just monitor me next week and make a decision about whether or not we do the ET or abandon the cycle and freeze any embryos. I'm not at all stressed about it as there's not much I can do - just go with the flow and rely on Dr. G's experience to advise what he thinks is best.

We're booked in for EC this Monday - very exciting that it's happening at last! The only problem is that because Dr. Go is away on holidays next Friday and Saturday (as well as the following Mon and Tues that we were aware of) if we go ahead with ET and actually get to Blastocyst, then he won't be able to do the transfer. I could see that the poor guy felt terrible telling me the news especially since he'd tried hard to get the timing right and allow for Day 5 ET before he went on hols. My last 2 IVF cycles had me on stims for 10 days and this time it's taken 16! He talked to me about doing EC early (as in tomorrow) and also doing ET on day 3 to make sure he could perform it himself, but we both agreed it was more important to do EC and ET when my body was most ready rather than forcing it earlier and transferring the embies before they had a chance to get to Blastocyst.

So all in all a very interesting few days with Dr. Gorgy! 

Thanks ladies for all your support to date (with special thanks to Sarah, Peanuts, Diane, Mousky, Lou and Agate) and I hope your own treatments are going well. Enjoy the weekend!

Celia


----------



## Louiseb26

Ratsy i got the vits Calcichew-D3 are they the right ones.It says take 2 a day.Do you carry on taking these through the 2ww? The man behind the counter thought i was nuts to    

CLS that good news on EC Monday...good luck my lovely.Come on the juicy eggs   
I'm a bit freaked out that you say Dr G will be away next Friday...I'm booked in for EC that day.So that means he wont be around for ET either   so who does this instead and why hasn't he mention it to me.I spoke to him yesterday and he said that he will be doing EC and ET...how can that be if if wont be here.I'm back in on Monday so i will ask him again.

Ladies has any of you ever had bloods done on a sunday at 111 Harley street?

Lou xx


----------



## Zeka

Lou, is that the red door next to the london womens clinic that the argc use (called HCA I think)? 
Zeka x


----------



## Louiseb26

Zeka i have never been to the LWC so i don't know.I don't have a blood form to take there tomorrow,Dr G said he was going to call them...i hope it will be ok   

Lou xx


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies 

CLS - Can i ask you what dose of IVIG you had im on 25 i was hoing to have 30 but DR G said i was fine you can go up to 74kg im having ILS aswel so was thinking maybe this is why im on 25  , Goodluck for e/t lovely   

Lou -Im not sure i havnt started them so i was hoping you could tell me     , Thats odd DR G not saying he was going away praps like CLS said his family life suffering and it was a last min thing phone him and ask him to make sure you know what you will be doing as you dont want to be stressing yourself out he will obviously have a back up plan for you and whoever does the E/C for you will obviously be as good as DR G , Things will be ok    

R    xxx


----------



## CLS

Hi Lou,


Try not to get freaked out about next Friday and Dr. G being away - he may be doing half day Friday and still be able to do your EC in the monring as planned. I did see a name in the diary very early that day so that might be yours!


He told me that the doctor who would be do the ET in his absence is a great guy who he trusts completely (and that would apply to any of the doctors he asks to fill in for him I'm sure). Plus it's a very reputable clinic so I have no worries at all. He said he just felt bad at not being able to give me the 'full service'. But as mentioned below, he's more focused on it all happening at the right time rather than doing things prematurely just so he can be there to do the procedures himself.

So I really dont think you have anything to worry about - I'm sure he would tell you if there were any changes to your plan with him. Its more improtant you focus on creating lots of lovley eggs!

Celia


----------



## CLS

Ratsy - I had IL on day 10 of stims and had 25mg IVIG yesterday (day 12) - sounds similar to what you are on?

Lou - please don't worry, it will be fine, he'll be doing your EC that day I'm sure. He definitely had a name in the dairy on the Friday morning when we were looking at it yesterday. He's probably just trying to limit his appointments to the morning if he's travelling that afternoon / night. LWC said he tends to be the first in line with EC (9am slot) so doing you in the morning sounds spot on.

CS


----------



## ratsy

Hi 

Thanks CLS   Also good news on DR G getting a nuse in i think its definatly needed for his own sanity what a work load he must have and all that stress and it would be brilliant for akvile to have a more active role she deserves it i love akvile im missing her from clinic ive got to phone for her to get my form for LAD test so im going to wait im sure someone said shes back the 23rd 

Lou -I agree with CLS that name must be you if not you will be in good hands and not being funny i personally think it doesnt matter as much who does the e/c or e/t its all down to the embryologist (spelling) Thing is DR G has done the most important part and helped you with drugs and dose / scans and helped those eggs along and by the sound of it youve got a good crop so its all down to your brilliant embryologist to get those eggies to blast so fear not on that youl be fine ,It will all be ok and after all the worry DR G will be doing it anyway    we get ourselves all wound up dont we   

Heres some hugs missy     

R    xxx


----------



## Red6

Hi Everyone,
Hope you dont mind me crashing. Its been a year since my last treatment and almost a year since I saw Dr G and had immune testing.


I have been studying Agates (thank you, its great   ) FAQ immunes post and its got me thinking about all sorts of stuff immune again and I wonder if anyone could give me some advice. My results from DR G showed no raised NKs (blood only) or TNF but neg LAD and a partial DQ alpha match. So I was reading about alloimmune as opposed to autoimmune in the FAQ
and I have got myself in a right pickle    I have classic autoimmune diseases such as endo and thyroid antibodies but no raised NKS in blood but I do have a partial DQ alpha match which is alloimmune. Just recently had endo removed and had a hysteroscopy which Dr G recommended last sept and I am about to have my first funded IVF in Sept which I am very grateful for. But they wont prescribe anything immune related not even gestone which I feel I badly need after bleeding so early on last two times.  To be honest I dont know what to do. I am confused about why intralipids are used as a treatment for  DQ alpha match but have done lots and lots of reading today about this and intralipids are used - does anyone know why. Sorry this has turned into a very confused ramble    just have no idea what I am going to do!!!!!!!! ( but know I need to do something as its never going to happen on its own   ) I suppose I just have to pick up phone and make appt with DR G.


Thanks for listening  and its really nice to read about peoples success with immune treatment.
Love and luck to all
Red6


----------



## Louiseb26

Thanks girls your so right in what your saying...I'm just getting my knickers in a twist   I told you I'm losing the plot...please tell me off if i get out of control   

CLS i know Dr G was saying how much he missed Akvile and having 2 people in to do her work,he was still having to do it all himself anyway.I'm liking the fact he wants to get help in...I'm sure his family will be over the moon   I know he cares loads about us all...he did say his job is not done until we have our babys   

Ratsy that really funny as i don't have a clue either    I think we need the lovely Agate to help us out   DH said he is locking me in the house as I'm turning into a nutter.I have never been so all over the place with a cycle before...sort me out please.   

Lou xx


----------



## ratsy

hi 

Red6 - welcome to the thread lovely im sorry i cant answer your question but someone will be along soon 

Lou- Now listen missy consider yourself told off      now behave yourself  you know when you see those old black and white films and the woman gets out of control and all hysterical and the husband slaps her face to calm her down i can see it coming from your dh i can     

If you find out bout those calcichew let me know ,Thanks   

R    xxx


----------



## Louiseb26

Ratsy      I'm normally quite sane...i promise. I'm going to have some acupuncture on Monday...that will sort me right out.Thank you lovely


----------



## CLS

I think we all get a little crazy at times doing these treatments - and we have every right to with all these horrmones and other medications flowing through our systems! And when we all look back in years to come - with our bundles of joy by our sides - we'll have a right giggle and realise that this is was just the start of many years of craziness to come running after our kids!   

CS xx


----------



## agate

Red6 said:


> My results from DR G showed no raised NKs (blood only) or TNF but neg LAD and a partial DQ alpha match. So I was reading about alloimmune as opposed to autoimmune in the FAQ
> and I have got myself in a right pickle  I have classic autoimmune diseases such as endo and thyroid antibodies but no raised NKS in blood but I do have a partial DQ alpha match which is alloimmune. Just recently had endo removed and had a hysteroscopy which Dr G recommended last sept and I am about to have my first funded IVF in Sept which I am very grateful for. But they wont prescribe anything immune related not even gestone which I feel I badly need after bleeding so early on last two times. To be honest I dont know what to do. I am confused about why intralipids are used as a treatment for DQ alpha match but have done lots and lots of reading today about this and intralipids are used - does anyone know why. Sorry this has turned into a very confused ramble


Red: I THINK the reason that ILs are used with a partial DQa match is that, if you roll the dice on your Tx and you do put back a matching embryo, even if your NKs and TNFa are not high, that could change and they could surge due to the matching embryo. So the Ils are preventative as well - as are steroids. But certainly its a good thing that your NKs and TNFa aren't high to begin with. It really does sound as though you need more progesterone support if you are bleeding before OTD.


----------



## sarahh

Lou - I think Agate has mentioned Calcichew before - were they expensive?  Most importantly what dose of calcium have they got in?  I'm sure Dr G wouldn't leave you high & dry (or maybe that should be on the table with your legs in stirrups   ) without telling you so I reckon CLS is right and he is doing your EC before he goes on Friday.  

Its great news about him realising he needs to get some help.  I'm really pleased.  I hope he manages to find someone good   

CLS - I wish I was as calm as you - you sound as calm as a cucumber about the whole tx thing, I know there is little point getting worked up but i just can't help it sometimes!!!!  Well done you!  And I hope everything goes well at EC on Monday and you have some nice juicy eggies - I wonder if they will work out what the shadow is during EC?  Enjoy the sedation!!     (When I went in for ET there was someone still having a good old snore at 2pm!!!)  

Red6 - you obviously need to support your funded IVF cycle with private immune meds to give it the best chance.  And I can't give you the technical explanation but Intralipids is def meant to help with DQ-a match.  Which is good news in a way as its a lot cheaper than the IVIG!  Get yourself booked in with Dr G in good time before your cycle is due to start so you have plenty of time to prepare the drugs etc. that you will need to support your cycle.  There are ladies on here who have funded cycles who choose not to tell their clinic about supporting meds if they are not in favour of you taking them - at the end of the day if Dr G is prescribing them then you are receiving them from a Dr and you therefore just need to keep Dr G in the loop about your cycle.  Good luck   

Lou - EC next Friday - how many days stims have you been on??  What is he aiming for a rugby team out of your ovaries   !!    I had been to the 111 Harley St (LWC is 113 I think) but not on a Sunday but know that is where the ARGC ladies use and I believe its open pretty early on a Sunday.  I guess you are going there because TDL must shut on a Sunday?  Good luck   

Right, off to bed, nite all, sweet dreams 

Sarah xx


----------



## agate

sarahh said:


> Lou - I think Agate has mentioned Calcichew before - were they expensive?


I think other brands are cheaper and don't have sweeteners/sugar in. Asda do some bargain ones (400mg tabs) called 'nutrisave'.


----------



## ells

Lou and CLS just wanted to wish you both lots of luck for EC and      for some lovely juicey eggies.   

Hi to everyone else   .

Ells


----------



## Klingon Princess

Hoping for a little advice here.... The tests I had with Mr G showed I have hidden C and I obtained the antibiotics although have not yet started taking them.  I had a hysteroscopy and laparoscopy on Friday and the consultant who did the procedure is adamant that I do not have Chlamydia nor have I ever had it.  He says there would be some sign of scarring in my uterus and there is absolutely nothing at all.  I told him about the Greek test and he says he has heard of it although doesnt know the details.  He insisted on doing another swab from my cervix and says that the UK test is now very sensitive and if it comes back negative which he thinks it will, then I should not take the antibiotics as I do not have Chlamydia.
I emailed all this to the consultant at Reprofit who says he agrees I shouldnt bother taking them but also says they wont harm me if I do.
So what would you do?  I'm thinking to be honest, take the antibiotics anyway just in case?


----------



## agate

KP: 

there have been studies looking at the extent of scarring in the tubes after having chlamyida and comparing it to your genetic profile.  they showed a correlation which suggests that whether or not your tubes scar depends on your genes.  So from this, I would expect that whether or not your uterus scars also depends on your genes.  Therefore, I don't think you can rely on the physical appearance of your uterus to decide whether or not have/had chlamydia.

most fertility docs and gynaes only think of C being a problem if it causes tubal damage - they just don't think about the immune implications of a 'silent' infection - because they don't 'do' immunes.

the whole reason for the greek test being developed is because of the possibility that there may be chlamydia up in your uterus (and tubes) but not down in your vagina (where the swab is taken).  the reason this is plausible is because of studies that took biopsy (surgical tissue) samples from the uterus and tubes and detected chlamydia even when it wasn't always detectable in the vagina.

it is absolutely true that the UK tests are now just as sensitive as the greek tests (because they are both PCR tests) but the UK test can only test down at the level of the swab (in the vagina), and not higher up - whereas most of the material tested on the greek test will orignate from higher up (although it will of course include mucus etc from the vagina).

having spent ages trying to decide whether the greek test is valid or not (given all the sceptism from mainstream docs), I have reached the conclusion that unless the greek lab are completely incompetent (and contaminating their samples) or are perpetrating fraud (by making up the results) - both of which seem very unlikely from a reputable commercial lab - or a patient has chlamydia pneumoniae (the strain that causes pneumonia)  - that the results of the greek test are reliable.

so, for what its worth, if it was me, I'd definitely take the antiBs.  the worst it is likely to give you is an upset stomach and the best is a baby.


----------



## mag108

ladies
Am in a bit of a pickle and I bet been exhausted and AF has just arrive so very emotional.  Have had such a busy few weeks with zero time to myself and I am rubbish without downtime.

Feeling under pressure to get my next tx organised and a decision made about where to cycle. (You will all appreciate what its like juggling all the components and getting timings right!)

Thought I had decided. Serum, tandem cycle (running out of money). Emailed in very early July to confirm. Penny didnt get email.



FINALLY spoke to Penny late last week. I had received previously an email from her responding YES to the question 'do you mix DE and OE at ET?"...(i realise now she may have misunderstood my question because on the phone she said NO they dont mix eggs) ...This is key to me, I want the option to use my OE if they are good but want to use DE too. (I realise now it is complex mixing eggs as my eggs will be older and I will be recommended Downs test..? what to do then for eg if I went with Cyprus clinic who do mix eggs?...)

Secondly she is giving 22/30% success rate with OE. Lister giving 18/35% (3 days transfer/blast). Should I do OE cycle? 
I have total faith in Penny and pretty good faith in Lister.Penny knows how to handle chlamidya infection (btw she told me not to bother retesting, that she would put me on antib's for TX). Are we confident on here that Dr G knows best how to handle c in the run up to IVF?

x
sorry for the me post. Am having a bit of a mini meltdown


----------



## mag108

ps KlingonP: I would take anti b's. As Agate says it is a sml inconvenience for a poss gr8 outcome. Dr's over here really will not buy it, Dr G only starting testing for it in April!


----------



## agate

When you say they don't 'mix' eggs do you think there is absolutely no chance that you aren't talking at cross purposes with Peny?

I have seen posts from e.g., wanabemum saying that Peny gave her a quote for combined OE&DE - which made me think that SERUM do tandem - although I can't find anyone who says that have done it.

I can imagine a lot of clinics wouldn't actually want to 'mix' eggs - i.e., they MIGHT be happy to stim you and the donor at the same time and have 2 separate batches of eggs to fertilise with your partner's sperm - as close to the same time as they can technically manage - and then let you take a decision on whether to have embryos from the OE batch ET'd and the DE batch frozen or else, skip the OE batch and use the DE batch - but at all times be absolutely certain that the embryos in your body are either all yours or all donor.  Because:

a) the chances of multiple pg would be very different between the batches and they would need to know which batch they are dealing with to put back a reasonable number
b) if either you or the donor discover you have genetic problems later, it would seem pretty unethical if you didn't know whether the children could have them or not
c)like you say, your risk for down's with OE would be assessed differently than for DE - although the actual initial testing (ultrasound scan and bloods) would be the same - but how the results are interpreted COULD be different if they are anything other than very low risk results - so its possible that with the same bloods and scan results with one maternal age you could be assessed as meriting invasive testing (e.g., amnio) but with the other you could be assessed as not needing it - but bear in mind that the initial testing is never 100% conclusive - it just assesses your risk of Down's not whether the baby definitely has it or definitely doesn't - only amnio does that - so if you were absolutely determined to avoid carrying a baby with Down's to term you would have to go down the amnio route (many ladies don't want to because amnio always carries a risk of ending the pg).

Or is she saying that it would be too technically difficult to time your stims and the donor stims so that eggs/embryos are ready close enough together to make it a true tandem cycle? - I can see that being quite tricky - given that some of us take ages to stim (like 16 days) but others are done and dusted in say, 9 - so I was wondering how Dogus could do that without compromising the stims for both patients.

How much difference is there in cost and hassle between having a back to back OE and then a DE if the OE doesn't work?  Is that something you could talk to Peny about?

Handling C... well wouldn't you be getting a second opinion from Peny on that anyway?  so surely it will only be a question of drugs and doses so whether they are posted from greece or Px'd here by Dr G won't really make any difference?

Do you mind reminding me how old you are and what your response was like on the IVF you did?


----------



## Red6

Thank you Ratsy, Agate and Sarah  - Think I had better book that flight to London tho wish I had not gone mad on John lewis online yesterday    I have tried to work this out for myself BUT  -  if the DQ numbers are me: 0102, 0501 and DH 0102, 0303 - Dr G has written 1.2, 3.1 for DH and 1.2, 4.1 for myself - is this a 50% match or a 25% match.


My LAD was negative and B cells IGM only 22.4 so do you think paternal LAD might help. So fed up , I completely understand where your are coming from Mag108   . 



Good luck everyone   


Red6


----------



## mag108

agate said:


> When you say they don't 'mix' eggs do you think there is absolutely no chance that you aren't talking at cross purposes with Peny?
> 
> I have seen posts from e.g., wanabemum saying that Peny gave her a quote for combined OE&DE - which made me think that SERUM do tandem - although I can't find anyone who says that have done it.
> 
> I can imagine a lot of clinics wouldn't actually want to 'mix' eggs - i.e., they MIGHT be happy to stim you and the donor at the same time and have 2 separate batches of eggs to fertilise with your partner's sperm - as close to the same time as they can technically manage - and then let you take a decision on whether to have embryos from the OE batch ET'd and the DE batch frozen or else, skip the OE batch and use the DE batch - but at all times be absolutely certain that the embryos in your body are either all yours or all donor. Because:
> 
> a) the chances of multiple pg would be very different between the batches and they would need to know which batch they are dealing with to put back a reasonable number
> b) if either you or the donor discover you have genetic problems later, it would seem pretty unethical if you didn't know whether the children could have them or not
> c)like you say, your risk for down's with OE would be assessed differently than for DE - although the actual initial testing (ultrasound scan and bloods) would be the same - but how the results are interpreted COULD be different if they are anything other than very low risk results - so its possible that with the same bloods and scan results with one maternal age you could be assessed as meriting invasive testing (e.g., amnio) but with the other you could be assessed as not needing it - but bear in mind that the initial testing is never 100% conclusive - it just assesses your risk of Down's not whether the baby definitely has it or definitely doesn't - only amnio does that - so if you were absolutely determined to avoid carrying a baby with Down's to term you would have to go down the amnio route (many ladies don't want to because amnio always carries a risk of ending the pg).
> 
> Or is she saying that it would be too technically difficult to time your stims and the donor stims so that eggs/embryos are ready close enough together to make it a true tandem cycle? - I can see that being quite tricky - given that some of us take ages to stim (like 16 days) but others are done and dusted in say, 9 - so I was wondering how Dogus could do that without compromising the stims for both patients.
> 
> How much difference is there in cost and hassle between having a back to back OE and then a DE if the OE doesn't work? Is that something you could talk to Peny about?
> 
> Handling C... well wouldn't you be getting a second opinion from Peny on that anyway? so surely it will only be a question of drugs and doses so whether they are posted from greece or Px'd here by Dr G won't really make any difference?
> 
> Do you mind reminding me how old you are and what your response was like on the IVF you did?


TKS Agate: Good of you to respond. I understood from and early email to them that they did 'mix' eggs at ET. They definately DONT do it at Serum (as I found out this week) but they definately 'mix' at Dogus, cyprus...It has opened a little can of worms re downs testing.

Penny said as you have, that sync ing the cycle can be problematic. I am a little concerned about this is general as it could mean cancelling, plus factoring in immunes tx here it could all get tricky...

Turned 41 in May so will be 41 +4mths in September. Got 9 eggs in April 09 (last IVF) 7 mature, all fertilised, 2 blasts, none frozen. Was told to expect a approx 30% drop in eggs by Penny... If it wasnt for finances i would be going ahead with OE one more time. The whole immunes thing is just SO expensive. But then I am hoping all my levels will be better if I have treat Hidden c and restesting LAD/NK cells asap. My urgency for TX is also because of 3 x Lits EARLY in the yr....dont want that benefit to 'run out'...

By the way, do you know the difference between NK assay and NK assay Follow up panel? DR G has marked follow up on form?

NORTHERN LADIES: Did you retest LAD via TDL in Manc? Am a little concerned about timings?

AGATE: How are you feeling? It is really not long now at all?
x
x


----------



## agate

mag108 said:


> TKS Agate: Good of you to respond. I understood from and early email to them that they did 'mix' eggs at ET. They definately DONT do it at Serum (as I found out this week) but they definately 'mix' at Dogus, cyprus...It has opened a little can of worms re downs testing.
> 
> Penny said as you have, that sync ing the cycle can be problematic. I am a little concerned about this is general as it could mean cancelling, plus factoring in immunes tx here it could all get tricky...
> 
> Turned 41 in May so will be 41 +4mths in September. Got 9 eggs in April 09 (last IVF) 7 mature, all fertilised, 2 blasts, none frozen. Was told to expect a approx 30% drop in eggs by Penny... If it wasnt for finances i would be going ahead with OE one more time. The whole immunes thing is just SO expensive. But then I am hoping all my levels will be better if I have treat Hidden c and restesting LAD/NK cells asap. My urgency for TX is also because of 3 x Lits EARLY in the yr....dont want that benefit to 'run out'...
> 
> By the way, do you know the difference between NK assay and NK assay Follow up panel? DR G has marked follow up on form?
> 
> NORTHERN LADIES: Did you retest LAD via TDL in Manc? Am a little concerned about timings?
> 
> AGATE: How are you feeling? It is really not long now at all?
> x
> x


can of worms-do you mean relationship/worry wise? it did for us because I realised I could never agree to an amnio because I couldn't bear to do anything that might risk the pg after everything I felt we'd been through.

NK follow up panel - I think that's actually in my FAQs - but basically it just misses out the bit that is redone with IVIG (and ILs) - I think its £325

I assume she assesses the odds with DE at something like 60%?
I have a feeling that docs like Dr Sher would assess OE lower than both SERUM and Lister have done for you - but then you did get a pretty good response last year.
If they could line up the OE and the DE really close together would it cost an awful lot more for the immunes?

How much do you and DH want OE to work? If you went straight for DE and it worked 1st time, would you both be completely ecstatic, or would one of you be thinking 'if only...'

I guess if it was me I'd be swinging towards DE - just because I want a baby so much (and if one route gives me, say 3 or 4 times the chance of the other one that would be pretty persuasive- but it would be a very tricky decision.

Surely the down's risk maths is manageable so long as you know which batch of eggs your ET came from?


----------



## mag108

can of worms-do you mean relationship/worry wise? it did for us because I realised I could never agree to an amnio because I couldn't bear to do anything that might risk the pg after everything I felt we'd been through.* I just dont know how I feel about it either way*

NK follow up panel - I think that's actually in my FAQs - but basically it just misses out the bit that is redone with IVIG (and ILs) - I think its £325 * Thks, sorry, havent had time to check your FAQ's yet....*

I assume she assesses the odds with DE at something like 60%? * Penny says DE 70%. *
I have a feeling that docs like Dr Sher would assess OE lower than both SERUM and Lister have done for you - but then you did get a pretty good response last year.
If they could line up the OE and the DE really close together would it cost an awful lot more for the immunes? *Maybe not. Could be lined up 2-3 months apart. Have money for OE plus immunes but NOT subsequent tx which would all be credit cards....*

How much do you and DH want OE to work? If you went straight for DE and it worked 1st time, would you both be completely ecstatic, or would one of you be thinking 'if only...' *Good question: thks, that is helping me get clear. I think basically I want to go OE one more time. But financially, if it doesnt work, we will HAVE to be in further debt to pay for another cycle...*

I guess if it was me I'd be swinging towards DE - just because I want a baby so much (and if one route gives me, say 3 or 4 times the chance of the other one that would be pretty persuasive- but it would be a very tricky decision.

Surely the down's risk maths is manageable so long as you know which batch of eggs your ET came from? *The Downs test question will have to wait for another day.*

*thks agate; think I am a little clearer*


----------



## jules3be

Hi Agate

I wonder if you can advise me.  I have just had my first ever IVF treatment which has failed.  I am 47, partner 50 and we used DE. His sperm is normal.  Before we head off for the next attempt, should the clinic be suggesting immune tests?  We already went to a recurrent miscarriage clinic in 2007 (as had 3 natural pregnancies that miscarried, 2 at 5 weeks and one at 10.5 weeks which was a blighted ovum) and had all the basic tests, but I imagine it is a good idea to have the next level of tests and wonder who is the best person to contact for this in London?  Or do you think it is best to wait until we have tried again?  I have always thought egg quality caused the miscarriages and no doubt it did but questioning why this one failed and whether the same thing will happen again.  Can you help?

 Jules


----------



## agate

Mag: if they are saying 70% live birth success rate (which isn't unheard of - as some US clinics have even higher DE live birth rates than that - although the UK average DE rate is more like 50%) and lets say, for the sake of argument that it drops to 60% if you have a second try at DE...

and the average of what SERUM and Lister are saying for OE is 26% (bear in mind that is more than double the UK national average llive birth rate for age 41 (12%) - and the HFEA live birth rate per cycle estimate for age 41 for the Lister is 16.9% - so its making me feel that they are being maybe a little optimistic about the odds with OE - please don't shoot me!! - unless they think your egg quality last time was fabulous compared to their average ladies.... maybe they are quoting the chance of pregnancy rather than the chance of a live birth? because according to the HFEA data for the Lister that's 23% - as the pregnancy rate is quite a bit higher than the live birth rate?

if you go for OE then I THINK you are saying that you have a 74-83% of needing to hit the credit cards for DE.

With one cycle of OE and 1 cycle of DE, I THINK (my maths is not great!) you'd have cumulative odds of 75-78% of bringing home a baby - but obviously the baby is more likely to come from the DE cycle.

With one cycle of DE they are saying you'd have odds of 70% of bringing home a baby.

With 2 cycles of DE you'd get up to 88-91% odds of bringing home a baby.

It is such a difficult decision.

Jules: that is really tricky because most docs would say that the natural pgs probably failed due to your egg and sperm ages - and a single failure could be just a genetically bad egg (even young donors have a lot of bad eggs) or a bad sperm - age does affect the genetic potential of sperm too - using very good eggs can help to compensate, but not in every case.  Even with donor eggs, at least 20-50% of cycles fail unfortunately.

If you had all the basic tests that presumably means you covered off your DH's karyotyping and your anatomical tests (hysteroscopy) and tested your clotting and thyroid and they were all ok?

I'm assuming you are considering having tests and a consult with Dr G at the FGA - seeing as you have posted on the FGA thread? If you are going to go down the testing route then that is what I would suggest - as there aren't many options for having immune Tx and tests if you are doing DE abroad (which I assume you are).

Basically, yes, if you try DE again it may work, but there may be something that will prevent it e.g, high NKa that, if treated would make all the difference - and the older you are, unfortunately, the more likely you are to have autoimmune issues becoming a barrier (most of which can be treated, although the treatments are very expensive - have you seen the FAQ on the investigations and immunology section?).  If it was me I'd test first, or at least research testing and have a consult to discuss testing (the consult itself doesn't cost much compared to the cost of tests and immune treatments) - but its very possible that you try again without any extra treatment and it works... but possible that you try again and it doesn't - I'm sorry I can't be more help - but I certainly think its worth you reading up and seeing Dr G before you decide.


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## mag108

THKS AGATE
It helps alot to see those stats and %'s.!!!!!!


Jaya Parikh Cons at Lister said Day3 transfer 18% live birth rate. blast 35% (I can only assume it's the last few yrs so not yet published on HFEA).  The figures are high but that is almost the same as what she quoted 14mths ago.


x


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## sarahh

Mag -    - sounds like you have some difficult decisions to make.  Try to take some time to yourself hon.  I think if you have a burning desire to try with OE (after you've managed to sort out C etc.) then you should really think carefully about how you will feel if you don't give it one last try.  The financial issue is such a difficult one isn't it.  I know that if this cycle hasn't worked then i don't want to give up but finances have to be considered......  but then .... would you have a plan to be able to pay it off??  What about a short term loan from family??    

CLS - good luck for tomorrow     

Loub - no more mad rants from you then hon?    

Sarah xx


----------



## jules3be

Thanks Agate for your advice.  It seems like it might be worth testing.  I will contact FGA once I have got advice from my clinic on their recommendations for any further tests.

Jules


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## jules3be

Hi Agate,  please can you direct me to the FAQ on the investigations and immunology section?

Thanks

Jules


----------



## CLS

Thanks Sarahh, much appreacited.    I'm pretty excited and looking forward to tomorrow - it will be interesting to see how many eggs my 41 year body has been able to produce this cycle! Fingers crossed.    Am just about to have a last bit of food / drink before the midnight kerfew arrives then off to bed for me.

Hope you're doing ok yourself.

Sleep well everyone!

Celia


----------



## jules3be

Hi Agate

Just thought I'd let you know that today I got a BFP!!!!!!!!!!

I had been so sure it failed I was onto planning the next attempt!

I know it is early days, 12 days past 4dt, but a very good start

Jules


----------



## agate

jules3be said:


> Hi Agate, please can you direct me to the FAQ on the investigations and immunology section?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jules


here you go:

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=242395.msg3904712#msg3904712

I'm still thinking of things to add - and the moderators aren't finished with it, but there is quite a bit of stuff there.

just saw your new post. congratulations! what a good start to the week!!! I just did an FAQ under P for pregnancy - about what to do when you get your BFP.

Lou and CLS: good luck!!!!



Red6 said:


> if the DQ numbers are me: 0102, 0501 and DH 0102, 0303 - Dr G has written 1.2, 3.1 for DH and 1.2, 4.1 for myself - is this a 50% match or a 25% match.
> My LAD was negative and B cells IGM only 22.4 so do you think paternal LAD might help.


sorry, I think I missed this post. yes its a 25% match - I did an FAQ on how you work these numbers out - its in the FAQ under D for DQa.
Do you mean B cells IgG? IgM is the 'early' antibody, but IgG is the mature antibody so that is usually more important. I think most docs would suggest paternal LIT as there is only 1 match - and if you do get your LAD to rise well with paternal, then at least one study showed that live birth rate was more higher with paternal than with donor.


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## Louiseb26

Morning All   


Jules3be a big congrates on your BFP...enjoy my lovely x

CLS good luck...will be thinking of you.Come on the juicy eggs   

Agate thanks for the info on the calcium vits.I have already brought the calcichew-d3 500mg calcium/400iu colecalciferol do you think theses are ok?It says take 2 a day.And if I'm taking theses do you think i would still have to take the vitamin d3.Thanks for the luck   

Sarah hope you had a chilled out weekend   One week down,one to go...your doing really well.I hope I'm this calm when its my turn (not) This is day 11 for me and I'm so bloated...feel like I'm going to pop.Thank god EC is Friday.
On the calcichew front,yes they were expensive £7.49 for 60.I should of gone to asda like Agate said   NO more rants from me...i have promised    

Ells thanks for the luck Hun.Hope your doing ok   

AFM I'm off to have  bloods,scan and drip.

Lou xx


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## agate

am sure calcichew are fine - and very tasty!

I think I'd take some D3 on top - unless you have been dx'd with hypercalcaemia or something like that (and you wouldn't be taking calcichew if that was the case) - although its pretty sunny at the moment so maybe you'd be ok without if you are  getting out and about.

good luck for your scan.


----------



## Louiseb26

Thank you Agate


----------



## Mousky

Hey, hey   


Jules - congrats on your BFP! Are you going for bloods?     


CLS - I hope EC went well    


Louise - thanks for posting about calcichew    I was just reading the immune FAQ about calcium, prednisolone and clexane but I wasn't sure about what to get    How's everything?   


Sarah - hang in there    


Mag - some difficult decisions     


ratsy - how's stimming?    btw, I think it's silly to say someone looks great at a certain age coz people are defo looking younger and younger but I thought you were in your early 30s   


Swinny - thanks for sharing about Cozy and her little boy   


How's everyone else? Ells, Pigloo, Diane, Zeka, Woody, Thumbelina, Red, KP, Agate and everyone I've missed?


----------



## sarahh

Mousky - don't worry, I'm hanging (by a thread!!!  ) just about holding up, know there is nothing I can do so there we go. Having all the usual cramps on & off etc. etc. but know they can mean either way so just trying to go with the flow and also trying to STAY AWAY FROM THE P STICKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

Jules - congrats on your BFP  you have an easy 8 months ahead....

CLS - hoping your EC went well hon  

Hi to everyone else, hope you all ok

Sarah x


----------



## Louiseb26

Ladies can someone put my mind at rest...I'm trying to stay calm   I had my drip today all went well.I also had a scan with is showing i have about 30 follies.I have dropped my Merional to 75 and EC is still on for Friday.I have just been to the toilet (sorry for tmi) and noticed that i was bleeding...it was bright red. What should i do ?

Lou xx


----------



## agate

how much blood, lou?  a smear when you wiped, blood that actually trickled?  enough to need a pad?
and was your lining showing ok on scan?
and did Dr G say your E2 bloods were ok?


----------



## agate

if its just a little bit of blood... I'm thinking its just from your cervix being a bit annoyed by being poked at with the dildo cam (don't know how much poking was involved to visualise your ovaries) ... as you have a lot of follicles, so your E2 should be plenty high enough to be growing (and keeping) your lining.


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies 

Lou- how did it go today how was the drip lovely    soz i told ypu about calcichew thats what i red on this thread  i thought they were the ones    i was going to get them , what was the other thing youve got take vit D3  what is that for 

Sarahh - youve done so well lovely the 2ww is the hardest of all tx i think ,I will be sending the      round for you missy , You can do it its not long now and youl see those lovely 2 big lines on that test youve done all you can   

Agate - hope your well not long now  

Mousky - why thank you youve made my day i like what your saying     someone in work thought i was 33 the other day on my birthday i was very pleased , 

jules - congrats on you BFP  lovely hope you have a lovely 8mths ahead of you 

CLS- hope you e/c went well and you had nice eggies   

Ells -how are you lovely hope you and both bubs are doing well   

Well ladies i went for baseline scan today all fine so i start stimming tonight YAY . Clinic said tho my AMH a lil low they like 5-11 mine was 4.5 and not to expect a good crop of eggs  so upset bout that    Girls can i ask a queastion im booked in for my IVIG on friday the 23rd ,day 5 of stimms will it be ok for me to book my ILS on the 26th as i cant book the 27th as im going to london for my LAD re- test and im worried about booking the 28th as i stimm early and im on a higher dose this time as im on short protocol so worried i wont get it in time 

Thanks girls   

R    xxx


----------



## Louiseb26

Agate its not enough for a pad.And Dr G said my bloods were fine and so was the lining and to take 75 again tonight.It was quite sore when i was having a scan,but just put it down to everything being very swollen...my belly is quite big today. Does this happen?

Lou x


----------



## ratsy

Soz lou i didnt  see your post , why dont you give DR G a ring he will still answer esp as your cycling with him and put your mind at rest    im sure youl be fine 

R xxx


----------



## Louiseb26

Ratsy i have but theres no answer...i will keep trying tho.Glad to see all went well Hun and your starting stimms...its your time lovely.
You never got the vits wrong...they were the right ones.I just think they would of been cheaper in asda as i paid £7.49 but i did get them next to Dr G office


----------



## ratsy

Hi lou 

Ive rang DR G before and hes rang me back at 9 clck so dont worry im sure he will get back to you    dont be worrying im sure it will be fine 

R xx


----------



## agate

yes lou, that can happen - and it would be red and fresh but not a lot of it.


----------



## Louiseb26

Thank you Agate i feel alot better knowing this does happen.I'm back in again for bloods tomorrow and wed.There doesn't seem to be anything there now,so i hope that was it   

Ratsy I'm sure he will call back...he might be having his dinner   

Lou xx


----------



## sarahh

Lou hon, hope the bleeding is nothing, just a bit of inteference up there    and nothing to worry about   

I wonder why he seems to be coasting you in till Friday?  Is it so he is around to do EC next week??  And yes, feeling bloated is normal, hopefully means lots of juicy follies, but do make sure you drink bucket loads, particularly of milk, after EC as it helps to avoid OHSS which is sounds like you may be at risk of with that many follies .... just take it easy, I know its not nice drinking loads when you feel so bloated, its the last thing you feel like but it does make a difference and is v important..... 

Can someone remind me when Dr G is away - I think he goes Friday this week sometime (after Lou's EC!) but when is he back? 

Hi to all the lovelies! 

Sarah x


----------



## Mandchris

Hi everyone
Sorry to post and run but I still havent had my levels from Humira x 4, it will be 2 weeks wed! I have been calling since last week (to temp) she called me last friday and said that Dr G wanted a conultation with me, so i thought must be bad news so i asked for results to be sent through post, as she wouldnt give over the phone.  When she went to confirm my address she said the incorrect address ---- i asked if she had mixed me up with another patient (last time Dr G came to phone to tell me results - so why we he just say come for consultation. Anyway I still havent received them, so i think i wil email him... can soemone give me the address please.  Talk about stress!
Hope everyone is ok 
Good luck to those on 2ww
Agate xx
love Mandyxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Diane72

Mandy,

Do you have any way of receiving a fax? Its probably the best route. I think there are various services where you can get a fax number set up that receives what is faxed into your computer.

Sarah, I think he leaves Friday early for and back on the 28th from what I have read but have not double-checked directly. Sending you   

Lou, I'm in Wednesday too, so maybe see you there.Did you speak to Mr G? I spoke to him about 9.20pm. If you leave a message he'll call back. As everyone else said bloating is normal but keep drinking (which reminds me I should do the same!!)   

Ratsy, congratulations on 'starting stimms' !   

Jules, congratulations!!   

CLS, how did it go?

Mag, its so tough to know which path to take and when, we often go back and forward between moving to surrogacy and another round, and everything is on the credit cards (multiple!) and will take MANY years to get back to zero, but all you can do is go with your gut instinct   

Agate, how are you doing/feeling? Thinking of you as always!

AFM had my Day 6 scan, 5 follies on one ovary and the other was difficult to see (its in an awkward place) so not to sure what it is doing. Now on merional and started the prednisolone and clexane aswell as the viagra pessaries and baby aspirin. Back in on Wednesday. 

Diane x


----------



## sal2

Morning ladies, does dr g go away again in August ? also when is Akvile back, I rang for my UNK results yesterday and shes posting them to me and I asked her if I needed a consultation and she said shed check but never rang back, think Ill ring her today again.


----------



## Louiseb26

Hiya Ladies 

I went in to see Dr G this morning as i started to bleed again this morning   I had a scan and everything looks the way it should be.Dr G wants to check my progesterone levels as he thinks it might be that...got to call after 2.
Dr G is away from Friday evening and back on Tuesday...so he will be doing EC-ET for me   He was so lovely this morning...had a melt down in his office   he gave me a cuddle and told me to stop worrying.
There was also a nurse called Chris there,who will be giving drips and helping out while Dr G is away.He said Akvile is back next Tuesday and he cant wait   

Hope everyone is doing ok.Thanks loads girls   

Lou xx


----------



## Mandchris

Louise - Sorry youre having a rough time xx
Diane thatnks for advice - got faxed over!
Not good news my Tnfa levels now up to 55! Im gutted as i dont have time to have more humira (and i think 4 is ennough both physically and finacially).  Any advice ladies would be of value, i started prdnisolne wed, have intralipids fri, then FET is 31st Aug, so run out of time now
Mandy xxx


----------



## Louiseb26

Hi Agate...me again

I'm waiting for Dr G to call me back with the results of my bloods.
I have had nose bleeds today as well...do you think this could be down to the Clexane.I don't think I'm going to be straight forward on this cycle 

Thanks mandchris.With you having ILs on Friday that might bring your TNFa levels down...it did mine.Good luck lovely.x

Lou x


----------



## agate

Mandy: Is Dr G suggesting IVIG? - that was the only Tx for high TNFa for fertility before humira.
Lou: do you normally get nosebleeds?  Was it a lot of blood?  If you are concerned you could ask Dr G if he thinks you should have a factor Xa (heparin) blood test and/or a thrombophilia panel test?


----------



## Louiseb26

Agate it was quite a bit and i never get nose bleeds.What are the tests? I just dont know what going on with me at the mo? I seem to be all over the place   

Lou x


----------



## agate

thrombophilia panel includes tests for how long your blood physically takes to clot (now that the clex is in your system)
factor Xa (the X is pronounced '10') measures how high the heparin (clexane) level is in your blood now that you are taking it regularly.
They will do them both at TDL but the factor Xa has to be done 2-3 hours after your daily clex shot - and you should really discuss with Dr G whether you need them and which one(s) to have.


----------



## Louiseb26

Thanks Agate i will have a chat with him when he calls


----------



## SaffronXXX

Hiya lovely ladies    

agate- Just had a look at your FAQ section for the first time and I am speechless. Wow. I can see that you had to put so much work into this. V v helpful. Thank you, thank you, thank you!  
  
Lou - Sorry to hear you are having a tough time   I'm  relieved to hear yor scan went ok and Dr G could give you the reassuarance and TLC that you needed this morning though. He sounds v caring. Hope he can advise you on nose bleed when you speak to him when you get the blood test results too. You could be right and Clexane could be the cause though. I have old hemorrhoids (sorry tmi) which cause bleeding only a couple of times a year but since starting on Clexane I started to see a bit of blood in the stool almost every day. 

Take it easy and good luck for EC my lovely. I agree with Sarahh about bloating. A lot of woman feel bloated with stimm at this stage. Stay positive hunni cos you are doing really well with all the nice follies and sounds like Dr G is right behind you. X

Jules - yay! Congratulations!!! You must be over the moon!

Ratsy - Yay you've started stimm! Happy jabbing darling    

Sarahh - how are you keeping sweeite? Are you managing to keep away from POAS so far? Hope you are keeping busy. 2ww is not easy and soooo hard not to symptom spot... Hope your OTD arrives quickly with the great news you've been waiting for. Big hugs to you X

mandy - Are you going to have a consultation with Dr G to ask for his advice on tx for TNFa? It is so hard to fit everything before a planned cycle. Not easy. Hope all works out. Good luck hunni X 

Diane - Good to hear you are doing ok hunni  Good luck for your next scan on Wed. I am sure with good stimming you will have a better view of the other ovary by then. My right ovary likes to play hide and seek   sometimes too. I found putting a fist under left cheek of my bum can sometimes help. Keep us updated sweetie.

CLS - How did you get on with your EC? Thinking of you X

pigloo - where are you Have you had a baseline scan?

AFM - Had to stop stimming on Wed as my oestrogen level was climbing up high.   Thankfully it stabilised by Fri. I was beginning to worry that I might be getting OHSS like last cycle. I am still a bit bloated though so continuing to drink loads of water and milk. DH and I went away for the whole weekend, which was lovely and then had EC on Monday. We ended up having 10 eggs, strangely, the same number as the last cycle, although we had less follies this time. (Metformin doing the job perhaps??) We are v happy. On top of this we heard this morning that we had 100% fertilisation rate (!!!!!!) and all the 10 eggs fertilised :-0  We had 9 out of 10 fertilsed last time and weren't expecting anything as good or better so we are still in shock! I'm starting on 40ml clexane from today. I am really crap at the jab though and got bruises all over my tummy. Not sure if it's cos I am easily bruised anyway  Is everyone else the same with clexane jabs?

Hi to everyone else and big hugs to you all  

SXXX


----------



## agate

saffron: your embryos sound completely fab! 

its hard to avoid bruises with clex - but doing it incredibly slowly and not rubbing afterwards works for me.


----------



## Mandchris

Hi 
thanks everyone
Agate - i reckon thats what he would advice but im gonna stick with intralipids fri, i really cant justify another £90 for consult, extra for drugs and then retests of £340, for a FET.  im gonna double up prednisolone as Choice said may have helped her, then see what happens. 
Mandy xxx


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies 

Lou -     aww bless lovely i hope DR G can sort those tests out for you and you can start relaxing   

Mandchris - hope those ILS brings those tnfa down   

Saffron -wow lovely great news those embryos are brilliant   

Diane - Hope your scan goes well  you really deserve this to be your time lovely    Ive never met anyone with so much determination and guts i think your fab youve done everything you can now and its time to reap the rewards 

Sarahh - Hope you havnt been by those pee sticks missy     

Ells - Thanks so much for pm me yesterday about the ILS question you put my mind at rest    

Sal - pigloo -Jules -CLS - Hope your all ok   

Ladies - As you all know akvile is away till next tuesday i need to get my LAD Re-test does DR G have to sign the blood form for TDL or can akvile sort it out as i want to go next tuesday but that will be her first day back in do you think i should phone up the clinic this thursday before DR G goes away and ask receptionist to speak to him , Ive never done it before so very confused   

Thanks ladies 

R    xxx


----------



## Pigloo

Hi girls

Mandchris - I hope you get the right meds to bring your TNFa down, also get the nosebleed thing checked out, i'm sure it says in the Clex leaflet that you must report this to your GP/Consultant if you experience it.

Diane - Good luck with the stimming, hope you get loads of lovely follies

Saffron - Wow 100% fertilisation thats fantastic news, i am starting Clexane soon but mixed feelings about taking it.  Hope you manage to inject without bruising.  Like Agate suggests i have read that doing the jab slowly and without rubbing keeps bruising to a minimum
Sarah - hope 2ww flies by and you get a lovely BFP   

Sorry for not posting for a few days been tied up with my new furbaby, had a few sleepless nights and have been quite tired but had a good kip last night..happy days!!   

I tell you one thing i reckon those Gestone jabs will be a doddle after experiencing lil 'ol needle teeth, wow his teeth are sooo sharp you should see my hands looks like i've been slashing myself with razor blades   but he more than makes up for it in the cutness stakes.


I'm off for baseline scan tomorrow, wish me luck

Pigloo xxxxx


----------



## sarahh

Lou hon, hope everything is ok with your prog results  - I hope you have managed to get an answer from Dr G about the nose bleed too - it seems likely to be something to do with the Clexane though eh?  it doesn't have an effect on the cycle (other than giving you something extra to worry about).

Ratsy - definitely get your form sorted out before Dr G goes away - Akvile can't sign them I don't think (although saying that I think Carisa his old PA did one for me once)

Re: the Clexane bruising - I have bruises all over my tummy where I've done them - some are small little smaller than pea size and some are huge great blue / purple ones - attractive - together with the apple sized bruise on my left bum cheek I'm feeling HOT!  !!!!

Saffron - great EC and fertilisation rate, here's hoping those lovely embies carry on beautifully 

Well girls, you would be proud of me - I've managed to stay away from the p sticks!!!!!!!! (I have to say it quietly otherwise I'll think of nipping upstairs again!!  ) 

Its OTD tomorrow so at least we'll know one way or another. The symptoms have been driving me  as per usual but I have felt a bit calmer this time maybe thanks to the acupuncture I've had. Thanks for all the 

Sarah x


----------



## sarahh

Pigloo - good luck for baseline scan   

Sarah x


----------



## ClaireBuc

Pigloo -  good luck for the baseline scan

Sarah - fingers crossed for tomorrow      

Saffron - great results


Just been reading through agate's amazing immune guide and have written out all my questions for Dr Gorgy tomorrow, need to get my Lit appointments sorted now as its giving me sleepless nights, wont accept just being put on a waiting list   and my calls being ignored, really looking forward to sorting this out with him.

Hope all you ladies are doing great

Claire x


----------



## ratsy

Hi 

Pigloo - Goodluck lovely for baseline hope all goes well and your ready to start    forgot to post about your lil dog the other day oh my word he is such a cutie hes gorgeous worth all the lil bite marks i say bet you could kiss him so much 

Sarahh -    for tommorow hun wish you all the luck in the world    I think il ring DR Gs on thursday as im going tuesday so bit closer to the time ,choice4 pmd me aswel bless her and said the same thanks again choice still miss you on here   

R xxx


----------



## agate

ratsy: I'm sure akbil has done test forms for me before - Dr G doesn't actually sign them - they are just boxes to fill out and tick.

Diane: best of luck for your scan tomorrow!

Sarah: I hope we hear good news from you tomorrow - you deserve it, lovely!

Pigloo:  good luck for baseline scan - you are on the starting blocks and ready to race!!


----------



## mag108

Sarah; good luck for tomorrow, fingers crossed


----------



## Mandchris

Sarah  Sending you positive vibes for tomorrw       
Pigloo - thanks for best wishes re tnfa levels, but the nosebleeds are Lous problem not mine,  agree should be checkedout.
I decided im going to try and get another intralipids in, which means that i will hve 2 within 6 days of each other, is this ok?
Mandy xxxxxxxxxx


----------



## SaffronXXX

G'morning ladies

Sarah - Yes, we are all so proud of ya for staying away from the evil sticks!!!   Good luck for today hunni. Keeping everything crossed for you  

pigloo - How did I miss your post about your new pup?  Is he the one on your profile? I love dogs too and got 2, a ****zu and a Springer Spaniel   Has he got a name already?? Good luck for your baseline scan X 

agate - any signs yet

Did 40ml clexane last night and got another wee buise....but I am relieved to hear everyone say that clexane bruising is normal! Thanks   Thanks for Sarah for reminding me that gestone would hurt too   More jabs to look forward to! 

Hugs to you all XXX


----------



## Shim

Hi ladies

I'm a bit worried, so wondering if any of you could help. i've had LIT and Humira, a week apart, with my last humira shot yesterday alng with an IL drip at Dr G's. My normal cycle is between 26-28 days, yet i'm now at day 33 and nothing! not likely to be br pg for a various reasons, so wondered if anyone had experience of a delayed period as a result of taking either LIT or humira? anything to worry about?

Hope you're all doing well. sorry, i've been a bit of a panic, so haven't managed to keep up where everyone is, but i hope everyone is doing well!

Agate - had read you immunes FAQ - simpy amazing that you have the energy to draft such a brillant digestable document for all us immunies! like all the other ladies have said, thanks so much!

Sarahh - i am    that's is fabulous news for you today   

Swinny and Clarebaby - great fun meeting you in sunny Athens last week.   

Thanks xx


----------



## Louiseb26

Hiya Ladies

Been for another scan and bloods today   Dr G is a bit worried about the lining as its ok,but could be better.He doesn't know why i was bleeding as all tests and levels came back ok.Have had no more bleeding since.I'm still on for EC on Friday.He will have another look at my lining then and if its not that good he will have to freeze my embryos.If it all looks good we will be looking at wed.He wants me to drink at least 5L of water a day (good knows how I'm going to do that) I'm really worried that I'm going to get OHSS with all the follies i have...please NO   Still feel very uncomfortable and in quite a bit of pain,but I'm hoping alot of that will go on Friday.

Sarah I'm thinking of you my lovely.And I'm   its all good news      

Ratsy you can get Akvile to sort your retest out...she did mine for me. How the stimming going? Did you manage to sort out your protein drinks?   

Saffon thats brilliant news lovely.I hope I'm heading in the same direction as you   As for the Clexane,i have some lovely busires...never knew they would do that.Good luck with everything and sending loads of    to you Hun   

Agate thanks for all your advise and keeping me calm over the last couple of days...your a star.Not long to go now my lovely...how exciting   

Diane hope your appointment went well? I was in at 10.30 so i think i missed you   

Pigloo hope the scan went well today   

Sending big hugs to everyone

Lou xx


----------



## parisbabe

Does anybody know how long & when Dr G is away on holiday?


----------



## Louiseb26

Parisbabe is he away from Friday Evening and back on Tuesday


----------



## Zeka

Lou, big hugs hun, I really feel for you! 

Agate, how's it feel being on countdown?? Eek! Hope you're not too scared. Big hugs to you too. 
Zeka x


----------



## ells

Hi ladies,

Sorry I havent been on here much lately, but I just want you to know that you are all in my thoughts and   .

Lou -    - keep up the water and protein hun.

    to you all.

Ells


----------



## Louiseb26

Ells,Zeka sending big   to you to lovelys.

Ladies I'm due to take my shot of Pregnyl tonight at 10.Can i mix 1 solvent with 2 powders?

Lou xx


----------



## sura

We recently had the IVF done in India on my wife and it is confirmed positive    and she is back in the UK now.

However, she did not get Gestone with her assuming that she will get it here.

We went to our GP and explained her the story to which replied that a letter will be sent after 3 weeks by the hospital and then they will give some kind of appointment.  Certainly she did not get the gravity of the situation   . This is typical of the GPs  ... and I want to avoid the pain of waiting for 3 weeks.     

I am a bit concerned as she is bleeding and hence worried about what that could be and we need to get the Gestone ASAP. 

Where can I get Gestone in the UK by avoiding all the mallarcky of GP?


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Sura - sorry to hear you are having some worries but I'm afraid to say it will be impossible to get gestone in the UK without a prescription - and for that you will need either your GP or another doctor to assist

Many GPs are reluctant to support people who have had fertility tx abroad although you could request a private prescription as then they are not paying for the meds (gestone is quite expensive) - but even then many will refuse to prescribe it as they are legally responsible for you if they write a script and they won't want to risk that. GPs are not fertility experts and hence don't like to prescribe these meds without knowing enough about them

I would therefore suggest you contact a fertility clinic in the UK, Dr Gorgy would be one option, there are many others - check out the HFEA website. You will inevitably have to pay a consultation fee in order to get a script from them - which could be anything from £90-250 ish, but it's worth it to put your mind at rest. And of course you will need to pay for the gestone but again, worth it to put your mind at rest

Best of luck,
Suitcase
x


----------



## Pigloo

Hi Girls

Hope you are all well, my baseline scan went well today, she said 'very thin endometrium' to the nurse when scanning me but this prob coz I down reg'd on day 1 of period and then bled alittle again.  Hope this is good and that it has got rid of any of the Hidden C bugs left after my antibiotics.

I will be starting on 3 vials of Menopur as of tonight, is that average dose ANyone else of Menopur?

Louise - 5L of water   I struggled with 3ltrs, hope the OHSS stays away, glug, glug, glug........

Saffron - No pic in profile is my Mums, we have an Airedale Terrier, we have called him Alfie   

Mandchris - I thought I had confused somebody with the Clexane, Lou I hope you got it sorted out hun

Sarah - Good luck for OTD tomorrow hunny

Agate - Hope you are well 

Hi everyone else

Pigloo x


----------



## sarahh

Hi all, BFN for me today.  

Lou - yes you can mix 1 solvent with 2 powders. 

Sarah x


----------



## sarahh

Shim - sure I read recently about someone having longer cycle after taking Humira recently but can't remember who it was sorry x


----------



## Mousky

Sarah - really sorry to hear your news    Sending you


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Sarah - I'm so sorry    
Suitcase
x


----------



## Louiseb26

Sarah im so sorry lovely...stay strong hun.


----------



## mag108

Sarah: I am so sorry to hear that. It's just all so very unfair. Sending you a big hug. Hope you get some time out and some tlc. Take care


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies 

Sarahh - sorry to hear your news     

Lou - Aww soz about lining ,still could turn around you still got til friday      , Ewwgh those milkshakes are grim there awful so thick and they smell funny ive got pour a lil at a time in my glass and hold my nose then i heave     i swear it takes me about 10 mins to drink it if you could see me lou  you would scream laughing dp said oh my god just drink the thing     , I cant cope with them before i get out of bed im thinking ewwwghh ive got that bloody milkshake for breakfast ,

Pigloo - Yay congrats on stimming lovely   

Agate - thanks for info hope your feeling ok 

Ells - my lovely hope you and bubs ok   

Zeka - diane - mags - suitcase -mandchris -sura -shim -parisbabe -saffron -Hope your all well   

R   xxx


----------



## Louiseb26

Rasty I'm really   that the lining will be ok.I'm trying to be brave   You crack me up with those drinks...are we drinking the same ones   I really like mine   I'm trying to drink loads but spending most of my time in the loo    I'm going to have some acupuncture tomorrow to try and keep OHSS away.

Lou xx


----------



## Pigloo

Sarah - I'm so sorry to hear your news hun


----------



## Mandchris

sarah  - sorry to read your news   
Ratsy - good luck with your lining   
Lou - get some good reading material in your loo - i reckon your gonna need it! lol
Agate - thinking of you x
hello to Pigloo , Zeka,diane,mags,suitcase,sura,shim,parisbabe and saffron

Love Mandy xx


----------



## ells

Sarah i am so sorry sweetie     .

Ratsy    - we are all good thanks hun.

Hi to everyone else   .

Ells


----------



## Diane72

HELLO   

Sarah, sending you a thousand hugs   

Lou, good luck for Friday!!! 5L does seem an awful alot. I personally would probably look at some of the sports drinks that have various salts added if I was you to avoid risks associated with drinking too much.

Ratsy, sorry to hear the protein shakes are pulling you down! 

Pigloo, glad the scan went well

Sura, good advice from suitcase-I'd make an appointment privately, congratulations on your BFP!!!

Ells, Zeka, MandChris, Saffron, Parisbabe, Ells, sending you hugs

Agate, thinking of you

AFM 5 follies on 1 ovary and 3 on the other that can be seen (although that ovary is difficult to see so who knows) about 11mm so hoping they grow nice & slowly and wait for Mr. G. for EC next Wednesday when he returns   

Diane x


----------



## woodwitch

Sarah   

Woody


----------



## Red6

Sarah - I am very sorry to read your news,   


Agate - thank you for the DQ help, I really appreciate it. 
Hope everyone ok - is it wet and miserable everywhere or just here   
Red6xxxxxxxxxx


PS Pigloo thats the same number of vials of menopur i have to take in Sept - good luck xxx


----------



## ratsy

Lou - my milkshake is abit like the thick shakes from mcdonalds well i really dont like them either i wish id bought the choc ones the strawberry ok but its got an after taste    im scared to have another one tommorow     

Also i agree with diane youve got be carefull drinking to much water its not good for you thats alot of water   

Diane - congrats on follies sounding good   

R    xxx


----------



## CLS

Hi All,

Have been offline for a few days - not been very well after my EC on Monday and just catching up with everyone's news now. ... 

Sarah - so sorry to hear your news. So many of us have been through it so we know exactly what you are going through. It doesn't make it any easier for you, but just know you are in all our thoughts and sending you big hugs.

Pigloo - congrats on your baseline scan, great news!

Lou - can't imagine having to drink that much water - at least you will be well practised for ET day when you have to arrive with a full bladder! 

Diane - Your scan results sound great. I too was a slow developer with the follies but I'm sure they will keep going in time for your EC next Wednesday. And just think how chilled out and happy Dr. G will be after his holiday.

Saffron - 10 out of 10, that's fantastic, congratulations! I hope things continue to go well and you get the result we're all hoping for. 

And to everyone else - Mandy, Meg, Zeka, Ratsy and others I've missed - hope you are all well.

A quick update from my side....

EC on Monday morning went really well - 23 eggs! Dr. G was really pleased. They ended up having to do ICSI as DH's morphology rate was border line. Tuesday came and Dr. Go told me that only 12 of the eggs were mature. Needless to say he (and us!) were a bit disappointed considering how many he'd harvested but on the other hand, we were just thrilled to have any at all! I've read immature eggs can be a result of a number of things including age, not a big enough dose of HcG (Dr. G reduced my trigger injection amount at the last minute as he was concerned my oestrogen levels were too high), general combination of meds etc. If anyone else has experience with immature eggs, I'd love to hear from you.

So out of the 12 mature eggs, 7 fertilised. When I spoke to him today, he said we had 6 that were looking good (ie) 4 @ 2 cells and 2 @ 4 cells. 

I won't know until tomorrow morning if we'll be having a day 3 transfer (tomorrow / Thursday) or if they're going to try for Blastocyst (Saturday). All very nerve racking but I am just trying to stay positive. Fingers and toes crossed we have good embies and Saturday is our day!

Off to bed now, sleep well everyone.

Celia


----------



## mag108

Juts checkin in to see if anyone has heard from Agate? Are you ok Agate?
x


----------



## SaffronXXX

Good morning ladies,

Sarah - big big big hugs to you hunni  

Shim - it may or may not be to do with humira you had. Dr told me once that annovulatory cycle once or twice a year is completely normal and this can delay AF. Our bodies can be so sensitive so if you had a stressful time mid-cycle (like traveling?), this can delay O, which can delay AF. Try not to worry and hope it turns up for you soon.

CSL - Ceila, I had  EC on Monday too so we are at the same stage! I know, it's all nerve recking!!!! Your 6 good looking embies sound fab and      that they all continue to develop well. Sending you lots and lots of positive vibes hunni.

Ells - just looking at your ticker. Gosh 21 wks already!  Bet you got great wrigglers in there! Good to hear you are well  

Lou - good luck for the lining on Fri. Snap for drinking loads of water.... I am sick of seeing water by now and yes the loo seat is my best friend right now!

ratsy -    you made me giggle. It really does sound yuck!!

pigloo - yes, that's the average dose for menopur (225 - 3 powders). Hope jabbing is going ok  . When is your first follie scan? Alfie sounds like a cute name! Hope he is settling in ok. Is he whimpering at night?

Diane - Good news about your scan! It' good you could see the other ovary this time. yay      for nice juicy follies for next week. Grow eggs grow!  

AFM - well, been up sice 3.30am with swollen tummy.     I feel all bloadted and full of heartburns. This is just like my last cycle; we opted for day 3 transfer and by the time I went into the clinc for ET, I was really bloated. 2 days later I was in  hospital with you know what. (Can't even begin to mention the eveil 4 letter word!) I put on a stone in a space of 4 days then and they found fluids everywhere between the major organs.  I had to take 3 weeks off work and  it took me a month to get back to normal. I really hope  it won't happen again this time but I have just found out that I put on 4lb since yesterday so I am beginnig wonder if I am collecting fluid again. aghhhhhhhhhh  We are waiting on the day 3 embryo report from GCRM this morning and we'll find out whether ET will be today or Sat.  We are pretty open minded and would go with whatever the embryologist recommends, though we lost all 4 frosties from IVF#1 when they were thawed so we are keen to go to Blasto rather than  freezing any if we can. Feeling anxious and worried that I might not last till Sat and they might have to put off ET though.    I am drinking water and also a pint of milk every day... (I am sipping milk as I type!) Is there anything else I should be doing?  Poor DH is worried sick too.  Girls, please please send lots of PMA to us today    

SafX


----------



## Zeka

Sarah, big hugs to you honey, hope you're coping ok.

Cls- I've had similar issues on previous cycles so oi know what you're going through. So mny stages for possible disappointments. Stay positive though as you still have a lovely batch of embies.  
Such a nerve wracking time. Big hugs. 

Hugs all round to the rest of you lovley lot too,
Love Zeka x


----------



## ClaireBuc

sarrah - sorry to hear your news, hope you and dh are doing ok.

ratsy - milkshakes sound bad, i'm just about to order some so i wont be going for the strawberry

saffron - hope everything goes ok and you don't go through that again

lou - does seem like a lot of water, you must be drinking all day!

diane - good luck with the follies

and hi to anyone else i've missed

Went to see Dr G yesterday to try and sort out my lit appointments, had one booked in for the 30th August and was trying to sort out anyother one, he is now saying that i do not have an appointment for this date as he doesn't know when he can get me in and i would just have to wait and see.  Unfortunately time is not on my side and am very dissapointed that i hadn't been told this, also he is now saying that he wants me to have a biopsy to see if i would need humira, this wasnt mentioned last time i saw him and unfortunately when i mentioned this to my dh he was not happy and has said i am not to have it especially when my consultant said i should not touch that as it would be a risk to my health (husband doesnt take much info in but he remembered this, typical). Dr G seems to really need a holiday because he really didnt seem to know anything about my case and was shocked when i said how old i was and that time was running out to use my own eggs, also asked about the IVF package to include drugs and scans which he had told me about in my previous appointments and now he's telling me i couldnt have it because of my age!  Didn't really get anywhere and had only booked an appointment because i couldnt get a response to emails or calls, more money down the drain. 
Not sure what to do now as hubby is not happy that i have now seen him a couple of times to sort things out and came away no futher than at the beginning.  Anyway moan over need to see where i can get the lit from.

Hope everyone else is ok and progressing well with their treatment.

Claire x


----------



## ells

Saff - anything with lots of protein is helpful hun and water water water.  I was given a drug called Cabergaline (0.5mg tabs every day for 7 days) - that helped me no end as I was at very high risk of OHSS.  Might be worth asking your clinic for it hun.  I hope that you are okay and that things start to settle down and your ovaries are not too sore   .

Hi to everyone else   .

Ells


----------



## SaffronXXX

Ells - did you have OHSS with your BFP? Were you bloated before ET? The clinic gave me Cabergaline to take home last Fri but called that afternoon to say that I don't need to take them as my oestrogen level was not climbing up as quickly as before. I so wish I insisted taking them still! I guess I need to trust the clinic's judgement and as they seem to think I am at lesser risk of OHSS than the last cycle, not that it stops me worrying!

Onto 4th glass of water this morning now!


----------



## ells

Hi Hun,

Yes I was bloated before EC but only for a few days before and after - wow i looked at least 6-7 months pg.  Thankfully though the cabergoline kicked in after about 2-3 days so by the time we got to ET I was alot more normal in size and far more comfortable.  We were very fortuante that we got to blast otherwise I think we would have had to freeze all.

Can you phone the clinic and ask them if you can start taking it?
 

Ells


----------



## mag108

*breaking news...from Agate ...she has given birth to a little girl!.................**  **  **  **  **  congrats AGATE and DP. Best wishes x*

(ladies, I will organise a collection, PM me and I will send my bank details)


----------



## mag108

*breaking news...from Agate ...she has given birth to a little girl!.................**  **  **  **  **  congrats AGATE and DP. Best wishes x*
(ladies, I will organise a collection, PM me and I will send my bank details)


----------



## berry55

CONGRATULATIONS AGATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'M SO HAPPY FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


----------



## 3babies

OH WOW!!    CONGRATS AGATE ON THE BIRTH OF YOUR DAUGHTER 

DADDY MUST BE OVER THE MOON  WELDONE & HOPE YOU'LL ALL BE HOME TOGETHER VERY SOON...

2BABIES X


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Huge congratulations to you Agate   

Suitcase
x


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## Newday

Congratulations Agate well done! Love dawn


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## Saffa77

Congrats AGATE!! How exciting!!!

Sx


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## SaffronXXX

Yay yay yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy absolutely over the moon! I had a feeling it'd be sometime this week!!!!!! Massive congratulations Agate!!!

Ells - thanks for your advice hunni. yes, the senior nurse got back to me and told me to keep an eye on my weight and also measure the garth of my tummy today and tomorrow. We'll speak to them again tomorrow if it's worse. The good news is that I am managing to pass urine ok and feeling generally well. She said if I start feeling unwell with nausea/vomitting like last time, that'd be serious. Touch wood I am ok just now and in no pain, just bloated. Looks like I am pretty much house bound for the next two days at least as I need to keep drinking water! 

Oh the embryologist said ET on Sat for us now. We hear more about the cell division/grades tomorrow morning. Not too long till my ET but it feels so surreal. Ells, did you have 2 blastos back? 

Sx


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## Bling1975

Congratulations Agate, I hope you and your little one are ok. Fab news.     

Sarah, I am so sorry it didn't work for you.   

Saffron, I hope you will be ok. It must be so worrying before ET. But if you go to ET you might have a higher chance of a BFP according to my clinic.

Hi to everyone else, maybe some of you saw my mother at Dr G yesterday with all our bags   

We had a good meeting with Dr G and got all our questions answered so I am very happy. He really took his time to explain everything. But I think he could benefit from a more organised system now that he is so busy as he spends more time looking for papers in the file than anything else. I will remember to write down a good summary of all our treatments and results for next time to save him some time.

We will go ahead with FET in aug/sep depending on my AF.

Dr G recommended 40 mg Clexane and 25 mg Prednisolon. He then wanted me to have an IL drip before transfer and again if BFP and on first scan. But we talked about it as this is my husbands absolutely last chance to have a biological child and I responded better to Ivig in the tube it might be a slightly better chance with Ivig so we will probably go for that. But it is so expensive, especially as I need 30 g.

Is there anyone else who didn't get gestone? I will get Crinone from my clinic and we don't have any indication in the tests that we need it.


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## Mousky

Agate - really pleased for you!    Congratulations on the birth of your little girl       


Bling - I'm also planning FET for Aug/Sept, it'll depend on my cons dates    I have an appt with Dr G on the 2nd to get my tx organized and even though he had mentioned extra progesterone, I'm considering skipping Gestone. I will get utrogestan from my clinic regardless. But I totally understand your concern. I have everything crossed for you and your DH    


Saffron = sending some     your way. I really hope you don't have OHSS    Great news on your embies, though     


CLS - any news on your embies?    


Claire - I'm sorry to hear you're having a rough time figuring out your tx     I'm happy to hear from others that Dr G is looking for a nurse/assistant as I'm sure this will help him but also all of us    re dates for LIT, I decided to bite the bullet and go to Greece as I didn't want to wait for too long. Best of luck with whatever you decide   


Love to all.


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## scottie21

Agate - congratulations and well done.  You must be absolutely delighted.  Take care of yourself and your little un xxxx


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## ann69

Wonderful news Agate - hope it all went well - enjoy your little girl!!

Well, I was due to start treatment at our local clinic today but had 2 large cysts on each side and therefore its been cancelled before I've even started - just feel like the world is against us. They have given me the contraceptive pill to try and shrink them down and then hopefully we can start next month. To say I'm gutted is an understatement!

Wondering if I may get LIT in before then - does anyone know when the first available sessions with dr G are?


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## Ourturn

Just popping on to say huge congrats to Agate and DH!

      


Anna x


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## thumbelina

Hi ladies   

I had to pop on to say massive congrats to Agate and dh on the birth of her little girl   .. I hope you are doing well and will be home soon xxx

Ells - I hope ur scan went well hunnii     

Louiseb26 - I hope ur tx is going well hun     

sarahh - Im so sorry hunnii     

Ratsy, Dianne, cls -sending you loads of      for ur tx

Mousky - How are things with you hunni? - You must be starting soon     

AFM - I had my confirmation scan yesterday for my "blighted ovum,."I went into the scan expecting the worst cos all the other weeks the sac was empty.. Now they find a yolk sac and fetal pole measuring 3.8 mm which they said is right for 6 weeks and I should be 8 weeks 5 days. They said its not viable still and the sac is low down in the utrerus and it has changed shape again.. Poor baby is a fighter so i need to go back next week cos it is the first time they have seen anything. Im soo confused. He thinks I will prob miscarry before next scan tho. Its all so confusing.. I was so stunned they actually found something I forgot to ask if the sac has always been low down as he has never mentioned it before. Oh well

A big hello to anyone I have missed... My head is like candy floss at the moment.

Lots of love and     

Thumbelina xxx


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## Pigloo

*Congratulations Agate on the birth of your daughter!!

Luv Pigloo 
*


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## Pigloo

Thumbelina - thinking of you hun, you must be so confused right now


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## woodwitch

Congratulations Agate on your blessed little girl   

Ann69 - I'm sorry you've been disappointed this month  

Thumbelina - I can't imagine how excruciating this must be for you  wishing you the strength to get through the next week until you know for sure.

Woody


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## woodwitch

I think I may be banned from Dr G    

I broke down completely on the phone to Dr G's office   - I cried and cried (and may have shrieked  )- I am just so frustrated and angry - I've been waiting on a simple letter referring me to a specialist since way before Akvil left and despite chasing by phone almost on a daily basis I am still getting the run around and it still has not been done. I've sent countless emails and faxed instructions but nothing is getting through to them apparently?? Then I read the receptionist what I had put in my fax and she said "Is that all you want?"  YES!!!!  then she said "Why didn't you say so?" OMG - what do you think I have been saying!!!!!! It seems like no-one understands what is going on or actually listens to you when you ring. 

I am actually quite scared and panicky now that if they cannot sort out a simple letter then how can I have confidence in a tx protocol. I'm in complete limbo and getting further and further away from treatment and closer and closer to my 43rd birthday  

But I've got nowhere else to go    

Woody


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## Pigloo

Woodwitch - Sorry to hear you frustrations with Dr G, I hope they have sorted this for you now


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## woodwitch

Thanks Pigloo - who knows? I am too embarrassed to phone again. 

Woody


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## ms_dee

congratulation agate!!! so thrilled for you and hubby!!!


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## Mandchris

woodwitch- sorry you had this experience sounds like the prob i had 2 weeks ago! i had to get him interuppted as some of us were waiting on bloods for chicago and was gone 1.30! Thankfully i hear he is looking for an assistant  

Agate - well done! congrats on your    love to you and dp

Sorry no more personals love to everyone
Mandy xx


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## mag108

Thumblina: I am so sorry. I had a very similar situation myself a few yrs back and know how horrible it is to get such rotten news like that . Very very hard


Woodwitch: That sounds dreadful! TBH I had a situation today where the recptionaist did not understand a very simple request and left me on hold so long I had to hang up (5mins)!


x


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## Louiseb26

Agate a big   to you and DH on the birth of your baby daughter   
well done my lovely.Sending you big   all round.    

Lou xx


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## ells

Agate - massive huge congratulations on the birth of your little girl - you both must be very proud parents.   

Saff - excellent news on the blasts, - we had 2 transfered but no frosties    but thankfully we had two strong ones and with Dr G's help we are now over half way! 

Thumbelina    wow!  I really hope you are able to prove those doctors wrong and your little one is a true fighter   .  Stranger things have happened   .  Thinking of you hun.

Woodwitch    sorry you have had a tough time - Akvil is back next Tueday and I am sure order will be restored   .

Mag's will Pm you hun.

Ratsy - hows it going?

Louise Hope you are doing okay and not too uncomfy.

Hi to everyone else hope you are all doing well.

Ells


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## Mousky

Just wanted to send some       to Thumbelina and Woody.


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## ClaireBuc

Agate you must be soooo happy, congratulations on the birth of your little girl best wishes to you and your dh.  


Thumbelina, i'm so sorry to hear what your going through i went through the same thing last year and it's so emotional, i hope that they are wrong and it all turns out fine. thinking of you.

Mousky - to be honest i'm not holding out much hope with Dr G , so could you let me know how easy it was to get booked in with athens and what do i do, i need about 3 x lit so need to get moving on this. Thanks for any info you can let me have.

Woodwitch - sorry to hear that your also having probs with Dr G office, he is so overloaded with cases that i'm concerned whats going to happen, he told me different things about my treatment compared to what he said last time.

Hi to everyone else.

Claire xx


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## Mandchris

Thumbelina - Sorry i missed you out, i just read your post! Im so sorry youre going throug this    
Mandy x


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## woodwitch

Thank you everyone   

I feels loads better now - it is good to offload    

Woody


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## Louiseb26

Thunbelina my heart goes out to you Hun.Sounds like you have a fighter there...and they take right after you.Stay strong lovely    

Ells thanks for asking lovely   I'm still very uncomfortable and hoping EC goes to plan tomorrow.Looks like I'm 6 mths gone already...still drinking loads   Hope your both doing well.That ticker is moving so fast.

Saff thats brilliant news on the blasts...I'm hoping for the same result.Good luck for sat lovely   

Woodwitch Talk to akvile when she comes back on Tuesday...she will sort it all out for you.Chin up Hun  ^hug me^ 

Ratsy me lovely...thanks for the luck   

Afm I'm all set for EC tomorrow...I'm so   I'm hoping my lining is ok and i don't have to freeze all the embies...wish me luck girls.

Love to you all   

Lou xx


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## Pigloo

Wow Louise - Good luck honey with your EC, i'm sure your lining will be beautiful and you get some lovely eggs.  Let us know how you get on  xx


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## ratsy

Hi ladies 

Agate -      lovely news best wishes to you and dh   

Lou - my lovely friend wish you all the luck in the world for tommorow you can do it    

Woodwitch - OMG when is akvile back i totally understand what you mean i rang today and spoke to receptionist to get LAD blood test form and she said you cant come tuesday it will have to be wed i tried to explain i couldnt as blood test need to be done before 1 but she kept butting in saying no no youve got come 4.30 on wed ARRRRGHHH how frustrating she said ok i will send you this form i said do you know what form it is she said umm no so i tried to tel her DP name to put on form wasnt listening again talked over me      and said ok i will send it tommorow so that was a waste of time i was livid when i got off phone 

Thumbelina  - oh lovely you must be all over the place thing is stranger things have happened you just never never know youve got take each day at a time youve got this far godluck   

Saf - hope you dont get the dreaded thing i wont say the word 

Ells - hope your ok and bubs   i was ok with the protein shakes today i start the pred and clexane tomo   

Hope all you ladies ive missed there are lot of you on here today are all well   

R    xxx


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## Ourturn

Thumbelina - so sorry you are going through this, its so so hard      

Lou - good luck for tomorrow       


Woodwitch - what a mare   


Sarah - was sad to read about your bfn      

Sending    to everyone who needs them. I've turned into a bit of a lurker as not undergoing tx at the moment...just ttc naturally now we've cleared the evil C

Anna x

PS I arranged a telephone consult with Mr G tom oday, and I thought its was Akville I spoke to? Sounded like her. Was left holding for 5 mins and nearly hung up but she did get back to me.


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## parisbabe

Does anybody have a current e-mail address for the clinic? I've just made an appt to se Dr G on friday and said I would mail them a medical history but the e-mail the receptionist gave me doesn't work.

I've already spent ages trying to get through I thought this might be a quicker place to ge the info (its not on the their website as far I can see).
thanks


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## niccad

Agate - YIPPEE!! Many many congratulations on the birth of your daughter. I am so so happy for you xxxxxxxxx

Louise - best of luck today. I hope you get loads of mature eggies and that your lining is good for you to go ahead      

Sarah - so sorry to read about your BFN. This journey is such a hard one but I firmly believe we will all get there in the end. I hope you come up with a plan of action soon    

Thumbelina - what an emotional rollercoater. I am so sorry that you're having to go through such a difficult time. I'm    that the glimmer of hope turns into a shining bright light of good news       

Woolwitch - what a pain. I was there yesterday and have to say that the replacement PA doesn't seem to listen before interrupting and deciding what you need. Painful!

Diane - nice crop of follies there. Good luck for Wednesday xx

Saf - great news on the blasts   
Big hello to Ells   

Hello to everyone else - sending lots of luck for whatever part of the journey you're on xxxxx

Also hello to sflower who I met at DrG's yesterday. I hope you manage to sort out LIT asap. Can't believe how short your appointment was?? I'm    that it all goes well for you x


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## fi7

hi all

just popped on to say a big Congratulations to Agate.  so pleased

Thumbelina, - sorry to hear your news, but hang in there
big hugs to all

fi


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## Rose39

Agate - Congratulations!!!! Such lovely news. Hoping you are having a wonderful time getting to know your LO.

Thumbelina - sending you a big hug hunny. This journey is so tough    

Sarah - so sorry for your BFN   

Louise - good luck for EC today!   

Ladies, I would love to pick your brains. I'm concerned that Dr G is going to tell me that he won't be able to fit me in for LIT (he was confident initially that I'd have time for LIT before my FET at the end of August, then at my last consult he said he may not be able to fit in 2 LITS before I leave for South Africa, but based on what other ladies have been saying, I'm not convinced he's going to even be able to fit in one LIT). I have a consultation next week with him where I'll go through all this.

I've already delayed my FET twice, and am reluctant to delay again, as emotionally I'm feeling pretty low, and I want to have the FET in the diary as something to keep positive for. 

But at the same time, I'm concerned that if I don't have LIT, I may be jeapordising my chances of a BFP, and that is worrying me a lot as I feel I should be "throwing the kitchen sink at it" this time. 

I forgot to say that as I'm single, this is an experimental LIT using a friend as a blood donor, as my male donor is anonymous, so I don't know what his DQ-alpha's are.

If I end up not having LIT, how does Dr G treat people with low LAD levels? (Mine are low at 38.8% but not that low). I believe that Dr Sher uses intralipids, but I'm not 100% sure? I'd love to hear of an alternative to LIT so that I can feel a bit more positive about this cycle, if LIT isn't an option.

Many thanks in advance!!


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## Newday

Rose

I thought that if you were having donor there wasn't much point in LIT. I am having donor embryos and for that reason I couldn't test against either donor so therefore, waste of time. Is LIT really that important? or is there saomething I haven't understood about it?
dawn


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## Saffa77

Hi Rose

My LAD was 35% and I didnt have LIT and got pregnant I have heard as long as levels are over 30% but then again its up to yourself if you want to get them over 50% like Dr G likes to see them.

Sx


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## Saffa77

Hi Newday

I think when you using donor sperm then dont worry about LIT but if you using donor eggs you would still need to have LIT.  I used donor eggs and Dr G had mentioned I needed LIT but I didnt have time to travel to Athens has had cycle all booked in abroad - had actually already started cycle then.

Sx


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## mag108

Rose: Agate herself had low LAD. One option is you could 'risk' it with your levels and get an LIT done asap on a BFP. If u seeing Dr G see what he says. x


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## Newday

Saffa I'm having donor embryos
dawn


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## Saffa77

Hi Dawn

When are you going for your next cycle? are you still with the same clinic?

Sonia


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## Saffa77

Hi all

Just called Dr Gs office to get my NK retest faxed through to me as my NKs were high so had to have a drip asap last week, apparently I have to phone back on Monday as no one at clinic now and tomorrow and Akville will be back on Monday.  What if its an urgent drip??

Sx


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## Newday

I'm hoping to go in August this is our very last try
dawn


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## Mousky

Rose - I've had 2 LITs so far and might even get a 3rd but there are some clinics that don't recommend it and they still have good success rates. Indeed, I think Dr Sher isn't even testing LAD - he doesn't use LIT - and he still has good numbers. So if you can't do it, it shouldn't be the end. Also, like you say 38.8 it's not that terrible. Good luck with your FET. I'm also planning mine for the end of Aug     


Saffa - thank heavens Akvil is coming back!


Louise - I hope it went well    


Big    to all.


----------



## CLS

Agate - congratulations on your baby girl - what an exciting time for you! Enjoy every minute as it's been a long road for you to get here.

Saffron - fantastic news that you got to Blastocyst! Good luck with your ET tomorrow. So lovely to know someone else is at the same stage as me (almost).

Lou - I hope all went well today with your EC and that you got lots of lovely eggs!!

Thumbelina - so sorry to hear what a tough time you are having. You sound like a strong lady, so just transfer that strength and positive vibes to your little one who sounds like a fighter. 

Woody - I hope that things get better with Dr. G and his office. As the other ladies have said, perhaps after his holiday this weekend and Akvile coming back next Tuesday, things will be better. 

A big hello to everyone else, hope you're doing well!

AFM - we had our ET yesterday so now we have 2 embies on board and have joined many others of you in the 2ww, hooray! The whole process was a bit rocky on a few different levels, but we got through ok. Firstly Dr. G told me to arrive at 12.30 for a 1pm ET but then when we got there, they said I was 1.30pm - not great when I was trying to time the full bladder thing! I'd run out of room temp water so they gave me freezing cold water which made me really cold inside and I was shaking like a leaf which didn't help the 'trying to relax' thing! As it happens, I did end up going in for ET at 1pm - despite feeling really full, my bladder still had a way to go, but the nurse said that since my ovaries was very very big, they would go ahead and do the ET straight away rather than asking me to drink more water. Not ideal but there you go.

Since Dr. G was late in arriving at the clinic, we didn't get an update from the embryologist or Dr. G about our embies until I was strapped in and ready for transfer - giving us about 60 seconds to decide if we wanted to put 2 or 3 back in. At first the embryologist said only 2 were ok to transfer back and then about 30 seconds later she changed her mind - I would think they either are or aren't suitable to transfer?! My DH and I weren't too impressed and in the meantime, I was just trying to get warm and relax as much as possible (not easy when you're freezing cold)! Anyway, despite all that, we had the ET and voila, I'm now in bed with DH looking after me. 

So fingers crossed everything works. Any spare prayers or good wishes much appreciated!

CS


----------



## mag108

CLS: You have done well hun under those circumstances, try and put it all behind you, your hard work is done now you just need to rest etc best wishesx


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## Mousky

CLS - sending you prayers and good wishes for the weeks MONTHS to come


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## mag108

ladies, scuse me for not paying attn to this as I realise it has been written about...
Can I check something with you. I had checked with Dr G a few weeks back about ttc nat. I had clex and pred to take now. My Hidden c retest results should be back on Mon. I want to ttc nat even if it is still +. What antibiotics should I be taking and when? Any ideas? x


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## sarahh

Grrrr just lost a massive post!!  

Thanks all for your messages and   .  Its so very sad that we all know how painful this process is    

Lou - hope EC went well today hon, and    your lining is ok, rest up and take it easy, hope you enjoyed the drugs     

CLS - well done on getting your embies on board - am    for you.  We had a similar experience at our first ET with Dr G - needless to say I was clued up and asked for the discussion before I got on the table this time with the embryologist.  Personally I think its wrong that they do that but the "reason" I got was that they don't like discussing it in the recovery room as its not confidential - well like anyone really cares about that - I certainly didn't, I'd rather have a sensible "eye to eye" discussion rather than someone looking down on me ......  

Thumbelina - must so hard waiting and not knowing - my heart goes out to you   

Saffron - good luck for ET    hope you are feeling a bit more comfortable? 

AFM - Trying to decide whether to cut our losses and stop or to have one last fresh cycle (no frozen embies   ).  I am struggling with understanding what went on this cycle.  My AMH was 14.2 when tested last year which at the age of (now) 35 was at the very top of the bracket below "normal" - i.e. only just slightly sub normal for my age.  This cycle I was on max stimms (600iu total - 300 Fostimon / 300 Merional) and got 5 eggs only 3 mature.  Last August I was on 450 iu total and got 12 eggs (9 mature).  I can't understand why this is so different.  Anyone got any views? 

I'm proud of myself because I haven't had a meltdown after our news, in fact I stayed quite calm (gutted obviously).  I know it is easier as I have my beautiful DD who I thank god every day for (especially at times like this) though. 

Wishing you all the best in this long hard painful journey.  

Sarah xx


----------



## Ourturn

Sarah -     your amh is fantastic (mine was 6 over a year ago). Maybe the last protocol was not right for you? Or maybe it was simply a poor month for recruiting follicles? Have you had the hidden C test? Might be worth doing? 

Anna x


----------



## MissyMinx

Hi Ladies, 

Sending you all a huge   

I spoke to our lovely Agate today, she asked me to let you know how very grateful she is for all of your best wishes and the lovely messages she's received.  Obviously she's not getting online much atm, but she said that as soon as she's settled into a new regime with LO, she'll be posting and catching up with you all.  Mum and baby are both doing well in the meantime, and she sends you all her very best.

I'll be back on to do personals over the weekend, but I wanted to send you all huge    and   

Love,

Em.x


----------



## Mousky

Em - I really appreciate you sharing about lovely Agate. Glad to know they're doing well but please tell her not to worry about coming back to us that soon   


Mag - Penny recommends for the ladies having tx to start the ABs protocol (+ steroids) 2 weeks prior to IF tx drugs and then after ET you can move to clarithromycin. I think if you translate it to a natural cycle, you would start the ABs the cycle before the one you would actually be TTC and move to clarithr. after ovulation? I hope you tested - and so you can skip it   


Sarah - I agree with Anna. Maybe the protocol wasn't optimal or maybe just a bad month    I hope you can come up to a decision you'll feel happy with   


Saffron -     for tomorrow.


xx


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

Sarah, I wrote a huge post last night but lost it and couldn't face writing it again, so well done for having the persistance to write another one! Re: the follies as Anna said AMH 14 isn't too bad. You know cycles are so variable I've been on 300 units every time and got different follies and it didn't always get less over time (I got something like 11 at the beginning 3.5 years ago then 8, then 19, then 12 (but they only collected from one ovary so only got 5 of them) and 8 this time so far growing so I think there is alot of variability.

Hello Anna! It was Galia you spoke to the other day, Akvil isn't back until Monday.

Mag, how many rounds of antibiotics have you had and what did you take first time?

Saffa, re: what if its an emergency Mr. G is still carrying his emergency number with him for genuine emergencies

CLS, you've reached a key milestone so now just      stay positive   

Newday, good luck!!

Mousky, how are you?   

Louise, how was EC today. hope those embies grow, grow, grow

Rose, people like Penny at Serum believe its best to have your LIT once you confirm the BFP and others don't do it at all so there really are mixed opinions out there. 

Thumbelina, I'm thinking of you lots and sending you warm wishes   

Niccad, thanks for the luck!!!

Parisbabe, Akvil is back on Monday so I would call her as it will be a bit quieter now Mr. G. is gone and tell her you are e-mailing it through and check she has got it and printed out. I think Dr. Eskander, Mr. G's cover comes in 4-5 so better to call out of those hours.

Woody, Ells, and everyone else sending you a hug   

Em, glad to hear all is well with the lovely agate

AFM, I had another scan this morning so still 8 follies now about 14mm so still more growing to do (which is good as I really want Mr G to do my EC as he thinks he may need to go in from my tummy to get the 2nd awkward ovary). I have another blood test tomorrow and Mr. G is having TDL phone him on holiday to give him my result, so I can phone him to get my drug dose reco. I am still keeping the faith and hoping it will all work out. 

Diane x


----------



## Ourturn

Diane - keeping everything crossed for you


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## Bunny-kins

NEW HOME LADIES

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=242999.new#new


----------

