# 41 and have first appointment at Fertility Clinic



## JaneyS

Hi,  I'm new to this message board.  I'm 41 and have been married 18 months to my 49 year old husband.  He has two children by his first marriage, and I had a miscarriage 10 years ago at 20 weeks.  My husband has had a sperm test which has come back 97% abnormal forms, 15% motility.  We obviously can't get treatment on the NHS as I am too old (?!) so we've booked an appointment at the Wessex Fertility Clinic in Southampton for a "One-stop" test - HyCoSy for me and another sperm test for him.

We are desperate to have a child together (as I'm sure everyone here is!).  I'm very nervous about the coming weeks:  From what I've read it sounds like ICSI would be our best option, but I'm terrified of having to do the injections etc.  I know I'm jumping the gun here as we haven't even been for our first clinic appointment, but I really feel that time is running out for us.

Everything I read seems to be that people have at least two cycles of IVF to stand a chance, but I'm really worried about the financial side of things.  Apart from the normal (?) worries about the treatment (that's even if we can go for it - like I say, it's early days), I'm worried that even if I do get pregnant, with my age and history (although they found no problems with either myself or my baby girl) that something will go wrong.  I can't begin to imagine life without having our baby.  This is all so hard and we haven't even really started yet - how do people cope?  Are there any success stories out there of people who became pregant with one cycle of IVF?  Especially at my age? 

I've had a blood test (NHS) which came back as everything ok, so I guess that's at least something.

Anyway, that's me.  Hope to speak to some of you soon.


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## dochinka99

At 41,  you are on the edge using your own eggs.  Do you know your own egg quality?  Would you consider DE or DI?  You may want to look into these things to at least know where  you stand mentally before continuing and investing lots of money and more importantly time.  Do you want to raise your biological child or a child born to you from either embryos or donor sperm?


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## JaneyS

Hi dochinka99,

I don't know my own egg quality but we wouldn't consider Donor eggs or insemination - we want to have our own biological child.  This is something we have already decided.  I didn't realise that it was possible that I'd be at the edge of using my own eggs - I'd assumed because I was having regular periods, ovulating each month, tests came back ok, that my eggs would be fine.....


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## cathogan

Hi Jane - just to say that I'm 41 too and did my first IVF cycle last November and am now 19 weeks pregnant (all going well so far) - and have 6 frozen embryos. My blood tests were fine too. So it can and does happen even at our ripe old age - I'd say see what the clinic says. But I think the 'shelf life' of our eggs is very individually determined and not just based on age - best of luck, cat x


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## JaneyS

Hi Cat!

Fantastic news that you are 19 weeks along!  It's lovely to hear positive news.  Wishing you lots of luck and positive thoughts!


Jane
x


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## Frangipan

Hi Jane

I had my baby at age 40 (39 when treatment started) after 1 cycle of ICSI. My FSH was 13.5 when I went for initial consultation at the clinic so we weren't terribly optimistic! I know its really hard and almost impossible to not think of all the various scenarios but try to take one step at a time and see what the clinic says first. I know its difficult when you feel time is against you but there are plenty of successes out there and I agree with Cath- I don't believe everybodys eggs are hard boiled once you hit 40!

Good luck and keep posting, you'll get lots of support

Angela xxx


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## JaneyS

Hi Angela!

Thank you for your lovely posting!  

My FHS tested at 10.4 - is that good or bad -(I'm very new to all this!)??  I

'm trying not to panic and think I'm too old or that the stats are all against us and it's so reassuring when I hear of your positive outcome.  

We were also thinking of going for ICSI (if that's what they recommend).  We were going to the Wessex (we are still having some tests done there on Thursday), but I've been reading lots of good stuff about the Lister in Chelsea and so we are now thinking that we will go there (and it's handy for where my husband works).  How did you decide on which Clinic to go to?

Thanks again,
Jane
x


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## Frangipan

Hi again Jane

Most clinics like your FSH to be under 10 when starting treatment. I think it basically gives them an idea of the way you will respond to treatment. FSH does fluctuate on a monthly basis though so  its worth having it repeated. Something that really helped me was a book by Zita West about conception (cant remember exact name at the the mo) It goes into alot of things like hormones, sperm, diet,IVF etc in detail and I found it very useful.Maybe you try and get a copy?  
As for clinics, I had my cycle on  the NHS so we were abit more limited in choices but I researched using the HFEA website and decided Bristol was our best chance. If I were you, I would spend time looking into clinics -at their stats etc, distance for you to travel etc. Having said that I have heard the Lister are good with 'older ladies!'. I think there will be a thread on this site about the Lister.

Love Angela xxx

PS My husband also had poor morphology so its likely they would recommend ICSI


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## Ellie.st

Dear Jane

My history was a bit different from yours - we were "unexplained" and had been ttc since I was about 33.  However, what I wanted to say was that I agree with Angela - take things step by step, and try not to cross bridges until you come to them.    

Re your chances of success, everyone is different and there is no way really of telling how you will respond to IVF/ICSI until you try it but the fact that your blood test was OK is a good start.  

I think it's a little early to be writing off your own eggs yet.  I did my first two IVF cycles (own eggs) when I was 41 and finally got my BFP and our little girl on my third cycle (own eggs) when I was 42 so I'm proof that not all 40+ eggs are hard-boiled .  

IVF/ICSI is a very daunting prospect to face (I put off having IVF for years ...).  I really worried about the injections too but after a few days you'll get the hang of them and find that they aren't that bad at all.  

There's no doubt that the stats are against us over 40s, but don't let that put you off giving it your best shot if you feel able to physically, emotionally and financially.  The financial side is a challenge but we personally looked on it as costing less than a new car, some nice holidays or a new kitchen - and the cost of IVF is definitely a drop in the ocean compared with the costs of bringing up a baby.   so the penury is good practice for when it works.    

I also agree with Angela about getting hold of Zita West's book "Fertility and Conception" and generally doing as much research as possible about clinics, improving your diet, taking supplements etc.  This site has some great information on it.  Your FSH isn't that high but if you do a search, you will find suggestions of things which might help bring it down a bit - eg wheatgrass, acupuncture.

Good luck.

Ellie


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## JaneyS

Hi Ellie,

Thank you for your supportive words  - I'm going to stay positive and think my eggs aren't hard boiled yet!!  

Some days I feel overwhelmed by all the information to take in and other days I can't read enough!    

My husband is being wonderful - he's very positive and that helps enormously.  I think I just need to see what the Clinic has to say on Thursday and take it from there.  One thing - the Clinic we are going to is in Southampton, but we've changed our mind and want to have treatment (If that's possible with our results) at the Lister in London (better stats and better Location for us).  Will the Southampton Clinic give us any results to take away with us so that we can give them to the Lister so that we won't have to pay to have the same tests done again?

I'm going to have a look for the book you suggested now - anything that I can do to help with the FSH has to be a good thing.  I'm also going to have a look into acupuncture.

It's so encouraging to hear about your stories of your gorgeous babies - I hope to have one (or two!) of my own ....!  

Thank you all so much for responding to my email - It really does help.  

Jane.


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## Frangipan

Morning Jane!

Hope the replies you've had give you reason to be optimistic  . We had our investigations done at a different clinic to the one we ended up having our ICSI cycle done at and they did want their own sperm sample and various blood tests repeated but I think you can take some results with you. Perhaps ring the Lister see what they say (you could also ask about waiting times etc).

I saw a qualified herbalist in the months leading up to my cycle and took a remedy designed to lower my FSH. In the month I did my cycle it was 7.5 so I think it worth looking into things like that. I also had acupuncture.

Good luck Thursday. Your DH is right to stay positive, it really helps  

Angela xx


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## JaneyS

Hi,

Well we had our tests at the Freya Clinic in Southampton - lovely people but the area was rather rough and there is no parking at the clinic at all (you have to drive round to try and park somewhere on the road).

Husbands sperm test similar to last time, but 100% "meshed" - basically each sperm attached to another sperm by the tail... I've never heard of this before.  She asked him if he'd had a previous vasectomy reversed?!?!?!?  The answer being no.  She then asked about what accidents or trauma to that area he'd had, but there isn't anything....  Has anyone else heard of this?

Also my tubes are blocked - no dye got through at all, although she did say my uterus looked fine.  She said this possibly could be due to some infection/problem when I miscarried at 19 weeks.  Also one ovary is in a weird place (kind've tucked alongside and behind the uterus).  

Pretty upsetting   even though we did think we'd have to go IVF route anyway.  She's told us that standard IVF isn't an option for us and we will have to go the ICSI route.  She was quoting 15% chance of success using three eggs....  How does this compare?  Is this good or bad?  It doesn't sound very hopeful....

I've now made my initial appointment at the Lister (although there is a three week waiting list to see someone) so that's more delay...  Just really want to get on with it all now.  We've decided to go with the Lister as their stats seem good for our age group and it's a more convenient location.

I'm really worried about all this as I've found just this initial part pretty upsetting and stressful  
and the odds don't seem that great.  I can't see how we'll be able to afford more than one cycle of treatment either so I'm worried if this doesn't work.  How do you all manage to get through this?  Am I just being pathetic?  I just can't bear to think that we won't be able to have a baby of our own.

I think I really need to toughen up, but just feel like I'm falling apart at the moment.


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## Ellie.st

Dear Jane

  

I found my first appointment at our IVF clinic very upsetting too - I cried all the way home (and it was a three-hour journey  ).  I think that actually having the appointment and hearing what the doctor has to say makes it all more real somehow and brings it home to you that you are having to face up to having treatment for something you hoped would happen naturally.

HOWEVER,  please do not despair.  In fact, I would say that 15% odds are pretty good.  I think I was quoted 10-15% at my first appointment.  By the time I was facing my third cycle, our odds were down to 1-2% but even that was higher than waiting and doing nothing.  Stats vary from clinic to clinic so you may find that the Lister give you higher odds.  However, you do need to see stats in context. Only about one in four IVF cycles result in a pregnancy (when you take the average over all ages of women having treatment) but this is only slightly lower than the chance each month of a couple with no known problems conceiving naturally. At the end of the day, my advice would be not to get to hung up on the stats, and focus instead on the fact that having treatment is giving you a chance of a pregnancy which you wouldn't have otherwise.  

Re your test results, the fact that your tubes  are damaged is not an issue as IVF bypasses your tubes completely.  An ovary in a wierd place is not necessarily a problem either - you've got two in any case, and often they move about.  (One of mine did!).  During Egg Retrieval, if the position of that ovary is still a problem, they have ways they can try and get access to it and even if they can't, they should be able to get eggs from your other ovary.  You don't need huge numbers of eggs to get a BFP - my BFP came from a cycle where I only produced four eggs.

I don't know about the meshing problem with your DH - it might be worth looking at the male factors in infertility board for ideas and possible things such as supplements which might be worth trying.  ICSI is designed to help with problems like these and will pick out the best swimmers and inject them into your eggs.

The fear of a cycle not working is horrible - I remember this really vividly, and it was one of the reasons I put off starting IVF treatment.  I won't tell you that getting a BFN is not horrible because that would not be true.  I had two IVF BFNs and they were awful things to go through, but I did get through them and other people do too.  What I can say is that if you are lucky enough to get a BFP, it is amazing and worth every minute of the ttc heartache.

However, I would say that what you need to do just now is concentrate on giving this cycle your best shot, and taking things step by step. That's definitely the way I managed to cope.

Please don't be so hard on yourself. Everyone on this board who has had treatment or is about to have it knows exactly what it feels like and I would say that the way you are feeling is pretty typical.  

I suspect you will feel a bit better once you have a date for getting started on a cycle as that will move you onto the next stage where things are actually going to happen rather than at the moment when everything probably still feels very unknown and daunting.  

In the meantime, there are things you can do yourselves to help make sure that you are both as fit and healthy as possible for treatment - for example, diet, lifestyle, supplements, complementary therapies etc.  Remember that most changes take at least three months to have an effect so it isn't too early to start on a regime now.  Doing everything you can to improve your chances can also make you feel a bit more in control of the situation - I found it helped me at any rate.

Hope this helps a bit, and remember, you are not alone in all of this.

Ellie


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## Frangipan

Hi Jane

I'm glad you've posted, I was wondering how you got on yesterday. It very understandable that you feel as you do today, its quite often hard to feel optimistic after these consultations when you've just been confronted with a 'list' of reasons why you haven't conceived and the stats that go with the clinic.

I know you are feeling low at the moment   so be kind to yourself over the coming days and weeks. Try to tell yourself that at least you know what the problems are now that stand in your way and there are ways round them. Infertility treatment, once the ball gets rolling, takes the control out of your hands so maybe it would help to try and get yourself in tip top condition in the weeks that you will be waiting? That is something that you can do, for you. Theres a supplement called pycnogenol that is supposed to help with sperm morphology and zinc is great too. I don't know how you feel about acupuncture or other alternative therapies but I believe it can really help prepare your body for the treatment thats coming up. I don't want to bombard you with information about the various things that maybe of some help but if you want to, you can search some of these on these threads and see what you think. 

Its depressing when faced with the stats for our age group but there are always plenty that IVF/ICSI works for. I think you're right to select a good clinic, hopefully your appointment will come round quickly.

Ive never heard of meshing I'm afraid, but ICSI obviously overcomes the sperm problems. As for financing future cycles, cross that bridge when you come to it. You're not being pathetic at all, don't ever think that. Its heartbreaking to want your own baby this much, I wish I could wave a magic wand and make it all right for you but all we can do is be here to help in whatever small way we can for you.

Take care and try and have a good weekend- do a little research if you feel up to it, there is alot you can do to help yourself  

Lots of love

Angela xxxxx


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## JaneyS

Hi Girls,

Thank you so much for your lovely posts. (Of course they made me cry     )

I've bought the book by Zita West that you advised and I'm going to try making some changes to my diet to help things along. I'm also looking into acupuncture as that seems to have some benefits.  I want to do whatever I can to improve our chances of success.  I'll also have a look into "pycnogenol" for my husband....

My husband is being so positive and supportive about this.  After Thursdays appointment and me keep crying, he told me not to worry and just relax this weekend and cry as much as I wanted to.  He's been so good.

I do feel a little better though, especially after reading your posts.  At least with the diet changes etc., it gives me something to focus on while the Lister appointment comes up.  I feel so much out of control, that it's good to have something to do.  I'm just to desperate to get started - It's awful feeling that time is running out.

Thank you again girls - I can't tell you how much these posts have helped me.      

Jane
x


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## Frangipan

Dear Jane

You sound like you have a fabulous DH, which is great as you are doing this together and can support each other. I'm so pleased you bought the Zita West book. Its really interesting and helpful to boot!

Try not to panic about time running out, your next appointment will be here in a flash and by then you'll be super healthy and your husband will be rattling nicely with all the supplements 

Really glad you're feeling abit better, its a lot you've had to take in but its by NO means hopeless and as Ellie rightly says, you're definitely NOT alone in all this. Keep posting, whether you're feeling low or good. We'll be here to hold your hand  

Take care and enjoy Zita!

Angela xxxxxx


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## ♥JJ1♥

when is you appt at the Lister?  If it is allocated a long way off then say you cna do cancellations.  They are supposed to be very good with older ladies also specialise in those with higher than average FSH- as someone mentioned not all clinics will take you on if the FSH is 10 or above (ARGC being one). I know people with Lister babes!!

I have come to ignore stats as they don't reflect you and your issues necessarily. I went to a clinic offering  age stats of 40% but for me personally it was less than 5% for my issues.

Re your results from the other clinic, just ask them for copies and a copy of your record there , they are your results and under Freedom of Info Act you are entitled to them both, I get my clinic notes some clinics charge a small admin fee to photocopy.
Zita West's website also sells complete vits for him and her, also my partner had acupuncture and that helped with counts etc
Good Luck
L x


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## JaneyS

My appointment at the Lister is on the 20th April, so three weeks to go, but the receptionist did say that she would look out for cancellations for me, so I'll keep my fingers crossed as it seems a lifetime away  

I've bought the book by Zita West and trying to at least implement some of the dietary changes she recommends.  I'm giving up smoking on Saturday (the day my husband and I agreed - both been smoking for years   ) and I've also ordered us both some supplements.  I'm also going to try and get accupuncture treatments for when I go up to London.  I'm trying to do whatever I can to improve our chances of success so at least that gives me something to focus on while I wait for the appointment.  I've also ordered some Vitex (something or other) tablets in the hope that I can try to reduce my FSH levels too....  I'll keep you posted.

I keep reading everything and sometimes disheartened by so many stories of failed attempts and then the next minute hopeful after reading positive outcomes!  It really is an emotional rollercoaster and I haven't even started treatment!

The Lister Clinic has sent me a report so I have forwarded that on to the Lister so hopefully I won't need to pay for another Tubal scan.

Thanks girls for being here for me - It helps soooooo much.    

Jane


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## JaneyS

By the way Angela - You have the MOST gorgeous baby!!!!


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## Frangipan

Dear Jane

Well done on the quiting smoking   I used to smoke as well so I know its not easy!

And well done too on all the positive changes you're making! I think it helps to know you're doing something. Its Agnus castus you've ordered to help lower your FSH- its a brilliant herb for doing that.
Well, your appointment will be here before you know it, and then I think you'll know more about what happens, when. Try and stay positive. Remember everybody is different, its more than just about your age and it can happen first time for you both  
Keep posting gal and good luck with saying goodbye to the fageroonies!!

Lots of love
Angela xxxx

PS Thankyou for your compliment about Lara x


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## clotted cream

Sorry to hear of your bad experiences of your first appointment.  It's good that you have a supportive husband.  Hope things go better for you at the Lister - I can't decide where we'll try next, but the Lister is one of my choices (DH says he's leaving it to me to decide - I think he's too lazy to spend hours on the internet researching it!!)

As has already been mentioned get your husband to try Pycnogenol.  I buy my husband the 60mg from Holland & Barrett (they do it in 30mg and 60mg).  My husband thinks it's a waste of money and that it doesn't do any good.  However he had 2 negative SA tests and then had SSR where no sperm was found - I then got him to start taking pycnogenol and 6 months later he had a SA done and healthy sperm were found!  I know it may just be chance/luck, but that was the only thing he'd really changed in his diet/lifestyle, so I believe it worked.

With Easter coming up soon, the 20th April will come quickly!!!!!


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## JaneyS

Hi !

Yes, I've ordered Pycnogenol from H&B for my husband (also some zinc).  I've ordered the Vitex stuff for me and also some Wheatgrass supplements too after reading some good stuff about it earlier.  Hopefully all this stuff will help!

Yes, my husband left most of the research to me    but then I'm a bit of a control freak so he know's better than to mess !  

Hoping the next few weeks go by quickly - trying to keep busy - starting a couple of decorating projects to keep me busy too!!  

If nothing else, DH and I will be healthy and have a nicely decorated place !!    

Jane
x


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## heatherjayne

Hi Girls
I have been lurking for a while but wanted to say Hi
I am 41, lucky to have 1 DD age 6 but ttc for 4 years. 5 lots of IVF and one MC in December after IVF. Does anyone out there use DHEA? I am thinking of taking it?
Heather


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## Frangipan

Hi Heather and welcome to the thread! 

Theres quite abit about DHEA on this site if you do a search. I took it for a few months in the run up to my treatment. Its supposed to help with egg quality I think and I believe some clinics even recommend you take it although others say theres no real evidence it helps.

Really good luck to you, Jane and clotted cream (Mmmm, yum!) with your next lots of treatment.

Angela xx

PS My husband let me get on with all the research stuff too


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## JaneyS

Hi Ladies,

I've been off work a couple of days this week with a bad back - Turns out sitting long hours at work has caused problems with Sacro-Illiac joint in my back and also further up in my neck (possibly contributing towards my recently frequent migranes).  I've started sessions at the Chiropractor (who also has a wife in the same clinic who does acupuncture, so I'm going to book some sessions with her too).

How often do you need the acupuncture?  I'm worried about trying to fit it in with appointments at the Lister as it seems there is quite a waiting time for appointments for acupuncture.  I did think about going to the Zita West acupuncture clinic at the Lister, but don't know what her waiting times are like.  Does anyone have any experience of this?  It's just (all being well with the consultation), I'd like to have acupuncture just before and just after EC/ET....  Am I being a bit premature/control freakish?   

Anyway, tablets have arrive - Pycnogenol, znc and magnesium for DH and Agnus Castus for me.  I've also ordered some wheatgrass tablets as they sound good.  All seems a bit odd for a couch potato/junk food eating/smoking girl like me !!!      But I guess you gotta do what you gotta do.

Still over two weeks to go until my appointment at the Lister - Is this the SLOWEST three weeks ever ?!?!?!?  I don't have a great deal of patience at the best of times....  This is certainly a "challenge" for me.

Jane
x


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## Frangipan

Hi Jane

Good to hear from you. Sorry about the back problem but hopefully the chiropractor will help. I think with acupuncture it depends what time/money you have. I had it more or less weekly but I know often you can have it less than that. Why don't you have a word with the chiropractors wife? I think any sessions will help so don't worry if you can't stretch to weekly. As for ZW clinic, I should imagine they are busy so maybe email them? Are they near the Lister? As you say, you're right to think about ET sessions.

Just a quickie for now good luck with all the tablets, speak soon

Angela xxx


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## monkey68

Hello ladies

I've been loitering on FF for a few weeks now, but not felt the time was right to join in!  I'm 40, single and have had one failed donor IUI in Denmark, was due to go this weekend but have messed up my flights and completely screwed the whole thing up, having spent the night last night at Stansted, but no positive OPK so came home and was planning to go tomorrow but realised that there were no flights, gutted....

I've also currently "registered" with the LFC and had initial consultation etc, and this week 2 scans which showed 2 follicles at days 8 and day 11, up to 18mm, I'm not sure if this is good or bad?  LFC won't give me any stimulating hormones as I'm not being treated there.  Has anyone got some information for me, any good news on IUI, seems like there's lots of IVF going on, perhaps that's because the IUI doesn't have such good success rates?  I just feel like its all a bit of a mindfield out there and I'm just hoping that you lovely bunch might be able to give me some advice.

Seems like there are a few people on this thread that are just starting out or who know what they are talking about, will look up the Zita West book.

Look forward to getting to know y'all! And good luck.  Thanks in advance!

Monkey68


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## ♥JJ1♥

Jane I would highly recommend the londonacupuncture clinic - Daniel Elliot is away at the moment but Christina and the others are all fab and they offer a 7 day a week + Bank Hol service for their clients to have pre and post ET (you don't need it just before EC).  They are also hald the price of Zita's- but some of that is her name and clinic as I go to her former hypnotherapist!BEst of luck and I hope that you get your back sorted

L x


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## JaneyS

Hi Girls,

Well I've booked some acupuncure sessions at the clinic where I'm having the Chirpractor treatment for my back as it seems everything gets booked up very quickly. 

It's still two weeks until my appointment at the Lister (God the time is going soooooo slow!).  I'm getting nervous too - I really want to get started straight away (I will be mid-cycle when we have our appointment) but I'm worried they will want to do other tests that will delay things...  Does anyone have any experience of the Lister, or clinics in general in this matter?  Once you've seen them, how long before you can start treatment ? (The Wessex clinic seemed to indicate that they could start us straight away....)

I'm taking the supplements (as is DH), but also ordered wheatgrass tablets - God they smell awful and you have to take 7 tablets 3 times a day!!!  Not managed that yet (every time I go to take them the smell makes me heave!)  

Anyway, here's wishing the next two weeks hurry up !!!

Jane
x


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## Ellie.st

Dear Jane

Just a quick post - very impressed to see how much research you've done - well done!  

Re clinic waiting times, I think it varies from clinic to clinic.  We were self-funding at ours and were able to start pretty much straight away.  However, it might be worth thinking about leaving it a bit to get the benefits of your new regime - that could take about three months. I know all about the biological timeclock ticking but my view at 41 was that a couple of months wasn't going to make all that much difference and that it was worth waiting to give all the supplements and diet changes  etc a chance to work.

I had acupuncture on my third (successful) IVF cycle - I started when d/r as I hadn't found a local acupuncturist until then.  I think I had weekly sessions until EC then a session half an hour before and half an hour after ET (the "German protocol" - do a search on this site or google "German protocol" and you'll be able to find more info about this).  I was very lucky in that my acupuncturist was willing to come to the clinic with me, and the clinic were happy to give us a room to use.  I also had a session during the 2ww. I don't have a clue if this was what made the difference and there is conflicting research but it certainly didn't do me any harm.

Best of luck for your appointment.   

Ellie


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## JaneyS

Hi Ellie,

Thanks for your post.  I see what you mean about leaving it a while, but I'm so desperate to get started...  

I agree about the acupuncture - it certainly can't hurt and I've heard lots of good things about it.  The Clinic where I'm having it done said they've had lots of Babies as a result....

Well, got Easter weekend (visiting sister who's lovely and only wants the best for me, but is coming across quite negative - "What if it all goes wrong?", "You won't turn into one of these obsessed women who have endless treatment at the expense of everthing else (marriage, work etc) will you?".  I know she's worried about me, but a couple of positive comments wouldn't have gone amiss....  (She's the only one I've told that we are going for treatment btw). 

Anyway, after that only one more week until our appointment....

One other thing....  I've had very painful and heavy periods for the last couple of years and after having the HyCoSy, this month, it's been extremely light and hardly any noticeable pain at all...  Is this normal?  I know the procedure is supposed to potentially "flush" the tubes, but the dye wasn't going through the tubes at all (how they identified I have blocked/damaged tubes)....  Just getting paranoid about everything going on I guess... 

Jane
x


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## Frangipan

Hello Jane

How are you doing? How is the no smoking going? Hope you're not finding it too tough but well done though, it not easy at the best of times!

Can't really help with the period question. Wouldn't think its anything to get concerned about but I know what you mean about getting anxious.I don't think you ever pay as much attention to what goes on in your body as you do when going thru IF treatment!

Re the well meaning sister. I've had similar experiences. My SIL told me (just as I was about to start IVF) that she had told our mutual MIL 'don't get your hopes up about another grandchild'! That was NOT what I wanted to hear! I really don't think people think sometimes but maybe you could say you appreciate her concern but at the moment you need positivity only! I also think people think as they're related to us, they're allowed to say anything! But try not to dwell on it. Its you and DH that are important in this matter

Well, your appointment will soon be here! Keep taking the tablets   and Happy Easter!

Angela xxxx


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## penny5

Hi there
I have just read all of the comments on this thread and wondered if I could join in and buddy up with someone?
I have just turned 40 in March and had a chat and plan meeting last week and am starting DR this week probably on Friday depending on AF date.  Very fortunate to have the first ICSI cycle on the NHS at the Chaucer as started the investigations back in September last year.
Fortunately ovulating each month, regular periods, tubes all clear and FSH of just 4.8, so all good signs.  DH excellent sperm count and total count but low morphology and anti bodies hence ICSI recommended.
Researched for hours on this site and found list of vitamins recommended to increase sperm quality which DH has just been taking for a couple of weeks now, so fingers crossed this helps.  Happy to list them if anyone wants the details?  Pycognel is one of them which has been mentioned on this thread.
Got accupuncture booked in for this week and managed to find local one to work for evening appointments who specialises in fertility issues, is a qualified midwife and Zita West accredited and £32 per session which seemed reasonable.
I have not shared with family or friends that I am starting IVF this week, some close friends know that we are waiting to start, so apart from fabulous supportive DH, feel on own.
I would love to share the experience with others who are a similar age to me and just starting their first IVF/ICSI cycle or more experienced ones to share tips and ups and downs!
I had day one of the emotional roller coast ride today in my first week of IVF as I though that my period had started and needed my medication which I am getting tomorrow with the Burselain injections and of course the pharmacy in the hospital is closed due to it being Easter Monday and got told that I may have to wait for my next cycle, another month!  We then realised that I had not started my period after all and it was just spotting!  
Sorry to ramble on but good to be able to share experiences with people going through the same thing.  Any advice on time off work for the 3 scans in one week?  I am worried about saying that I have 3 hospital appointments in a week and do not want work to know that I am trying for a baby and am stressing already about it!  Booked off the week due for EC and ET though, unless dates change.
Would love to hear from some of you...
x


----------



## JaneyS

Hi Penny5!  

Welcome!  I'm also nervous about taking the time off work for hospital appointments (I live on South coast and I'm going to have treatment at the Lister in London).  I've told my immediate Boss about the circumstances but haven't told anyone else and I don't know what I'm going to say when people ask what I'm doing (they are a very nosy bunch here).  I think I'm just going to say it's a hospital appointment and hope that people respect my privacy enough not to ask anything further!  

My husband is also taking pycegnol (or however you spell it!), and I'm also taking Agnus Castus (I have high FSH).  We have our first appointment at the Lister next Monday (had to wait over 3 weeks for appointment) but we've already had appointment at another clinic in Southampton (we decided not to go with them).

I'm really nervous about the injections - do you really have to do them in your stomach?  I'd be happier if they were in the leg (which I thought they were initially).  Oh well.  It will all be worth it in the end.

Just wish things would hurry up so we can get started....

Jane


----------



## Frangipan

Hi Jane and Welcome Penny

Its great that the two of you are at the same stage, you will be able to do some mutual hand holding! Its very scary but also an exciting time for you both. 

Penny- Some clinics start very early in the morning- we've had to be there at 7.30 for EC etc so maybe you could speak to them about earliest appointments? Maybe you  could tell work its 'womens problems' (if its men you're talking to thats usually enough to keep them quiet!). Anyway lots of luck with it all and its great you have a fab DH. It really helps  

Jane- How you doing? Not long now! I injected my drugs into the top of my leg with no problems. Haven't heard that you can't. I was on Menopur but I wouldn't think that would make any diffference?

Anyway keep posting girls and we'll help all we can in whatever way we can

Angela xxx


----------



## penny5

Hi Angela and Jane

Good to hear from you both, reassuring to talk to people who have been or are in the same boat.
Jane, I went to collect my injections today and medication and I am not good with needles. However I injected one in my leg (empty of course) to try, the thought of it was far worse than the actual discomfort.  I do not have any flab on my tummy fortunately but like most women plenty on my thighs which is where I am going to inject them.
I have aloe vera gel as I have read that this is good to put on afterwards.  It's a shame that you have to go to London.  The Chaucer is 30 minutes from home and 45 minutes from work however it still took me 2 hours today to get there and back and have my appointment.
Thanks for your suggestion Angela, I decided today that I would say it is "woman's problems" and hope that I do not get asked, I have been saying this since September! It just seems odd to have 3 appointments in one week.
I am hoping to start the medication and injections on Friday, so  will let you now how I get on.
Good luck Jane and catch up with you both soon.  
Penny


----------



## JaneyS

Hi Girls!

Thanks Angela for your support!  It really does help to have someone to "talk" to here...  

Unfortunately we couldn't get anywhere nearer (the other Clinic was in Southampton which was a good 1.5 hours drive away).  At least with the Lister, it's just round the corner from where my husband works (contractor) so he won't lose too much money - especially important with all the cost of the IVF treatment.

Let us know how you get on with the injections on Friday Penny - Any tips will be appreciated!  

Jane
x


----------



## penny5

Hi Jane and Angela

Just to say that I injected myself this morning for the first time and never in a million years did i think that I would be capable not good with injections etc.  Not as bad as I thought, in fact the thought of it is far worse than the actual injection and the taking out worse.  Feeling quite proud of myself!  

Happy and sad morning though, we have 3 goslings hatched but in the process our cockerel (which we hatched a couple of years ago) was killed we think by the goose protecting the eggs.  So the excitment of the goslings has been spoilt by the sad loss of our cockerel.   

Incidentally I started my tablets yesterday and we had 2 gosling hatch and my injections today and we had another one hatch this morning.  A lucky omen maybe?  I collected my injections on my Mum's Birthday another lucky omen maybe?

Hope you both doing ok and catch up with you soon  

Penny xxx


----------



## Frangipan

Hi Ladies!

Ah, sorry about the loss of your cockerel Penny, thats really sad  . On a more upbeat note, sounds like you have lots of new life going on around you, as you say, all good omens  

Glad the jabbing was OK. I found the thought of it much worse too.The needles are so fine but well done! You're on the way now gal! Spring is a good time I think  

Jane- Lots of luck for your apppointment tomorrow. Hope you get some idea of when etc. I'll be thinking of you  

Well, I don't know what you've got but we've got lots of lovely   here so might get the legs out  !! Nah, I'm not that mean!!

Ta ra for now ladies and keep up the good work!

Angela xxxx


----------



## penny5

Hi 

Just started injecting yesterday morning, and I seem to be cold and tired when in fact it has been a warm day in Kent.  Is this usual? 

Booked in time for baseline scan today on 30th April, so feel like making small steps each day re progress.  Harder injecting in left leg than right one.  AF stopped almost since taking tablets, so hopefully working.  

Bye for now... 

Penny


----------



## hopehopehope

Hi there everyone, i've been following this thread and Jane, I wondered how your appointment went today??

I hope you had good news at the Lister. 

I'm awaiting my 4th Diui, can't have IVF as my AMH is so low and
found out last week I have high Estradiol (200 on day5), even though FSH is a good 7. 
But good news after a further scan and hycosy. Tubes as clear and had 3 X 19mm follicles 2 days before LHS. 

Good luck to everyone xoxo


----------



## JaneyS

Hi Girls!

Finally got the appointment!!!  Lister was very busy and they are currently undergoing refurb so rather disorganised. Rather offput at first as hardly any seating (lots of people waiting) and we were kept an hour late for our appointment (we didn't seem the only ones).  Consultant did apologise but said they make appointments for people to get there half an hour before they are due to be seen! (Didn't tell us this before!).

Anyway, husband getting really cheesed off as the whole place seemed rather NHS (that does sound snobby I know, but when we are paying so much money, I think we both expected something a bit less disorganised).

Doctor went through everything clearly though and the stats at the Lister (especially if you can get to Blastocyst stage) are good so we are going ahead with them.  I've got my prescription for the nasal spray which I start next Tuesday !  So we are off!  I know we have a long way to go, but at least we are now on the road....    

Just going to have a look round now for prices for the nasal spray (probably will go with Lister pharmacy but wanted to just get an idea - does anyone get their drugs elsewhere online?)

Sounds like things are going well for you Penny - I hope they do for me too!

Jane


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## Frangipan

Morning all!

Jane so pleased to hear its all systems go for you! Its strange but your comment about the disorganisation at the clinic seems a common complaint about alot of clinics. Still, if you're happy with the consultant and what he's saying, I think thats the main thing. They may well be better once their refurb work is finished. Can't help with the drugs but have you done a search on here? Keep posting and we'll be keeping everything crossed for you!

Penny- I can't recall ever feeling like that. Have you picked up a bug maybe? If you are concerned at all about it though, speak to the clinic   

Hope- welcome to this little thread! And lots of luck with your treatment, its ounding good so far!

Angela xxx


----------



## jane39

Hi
I am approaching 40 and having my 4th IVf in june. 
I have realised how many things i did wrong the main one being diet. 
Whilst I got 15 eggs, the embryos fragmented. Whilst surprised at the time i now know that this was due to my poor diet, not enough protein or the right supplements, so I can echo the advice on these pages,

Do your research and ensure your eggs are the best they can be.

This site is full of really usefull advice.

Hopefully this will help me too!! 

janex


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## penny5

Hi 

Angela-Good to keep in touch.  I have been cold again today but it has been a warm day in Kent again, I drove home with my heated seat on and there were drivers with their roofs down!  I feel fine in myself and do not seem to be having any side effects yet, although reading the threads, it seems to be more when on the stimming part?

Janey-Really pleased that you have had your appt, it is a huge milestone when you have the ball rolling.  You have to go with your gut instinct and the consultant is more important than the waiting times etc although when working full time, I know that time is precious!  Let me know how you get on?  I do not sniff as part of mine on the long protocol but injections and tablets.  Maybe you are on the short protocol?

Jane and hopehope- Welcome to the the thread, Janey and I are new to it too.  Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Bye for now...

Penny


----------



## JaneyS

Hi Penny,

Yes, it is the short protocol - as I have regular periods, the consultant said we didn't need to do the OCPill (plus that would just delay another couple of weeks!).  It is difficult trying to juggle the appointments, acupuncture, my chiropractor (weekly appointments) and a full time job!  I was hoping to get early appointments at the Lister so I could try and get back to work in the afternoon so just having half day holiday, but with the 2 hour train journey either way and the fact that appointment times don't seem to be adhered to particularly well, it looks like I'll be taking whole days off.  I'm anticipating that I'll need around 4 days off for scans, another day for Egg collection and Egg transfer (god willing!), and I'm going to take the first week off after transfer (pretty stressful job so want some time chilling at home).  So I think I'm going to be taking about two weeks off...

What is the "baseline" scan?  Is this the one to see how your uterus lining is?

Jane


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## hopehopehope

I have realised how many things i did wrong the main one being diet. 

Whilst I got 15 eggs, the embryos fragmented. Whilst surprised at the time i now know that this was due to my poor diet, not enough protein or the right supplements, so I can echo the advice on these pages,




Hello again everyone - Janey, so pleased you have started, you must feel great!!!!  Jane - could you let me know what
you mean about diet. I'm a healthy vegetarian, a bit porky, but do a lot of excercise. Now I'm worrried that my diet which
is lowish in protein (maybe 40g per day) is reducing my egg quality. 

Jane -  don't know what you're job is, but i'm a teacher and i know in my contract 'fertility treatment' is not counted as illness. 
My bossess haven't a clue what i'm having done. I just said 'women's fertility issues'  and they shut up!! Maybe you should check your contract?

Penny  - all your gosling fertility around you must be sending you good vibes! sorry about Mr Cockerel though, I've had hens (not cockerel though)
and you do get very attached to them. 

My consult at MFs says that my low AMH  would indicate that I couldn't have IVF as I wouldn't respond. Does anyone think i should
ignore him and use the iui money for ivf instead


----------



## penny5

Hi Jane

The base line scan is to check that I have down regulated properly to start the stimulation part I believe.

I work full time 8.30-6pm minimum hours so it is hard to fit appointments in.  I have booked off the week for EC and ET, I just hope it does not get moved.  For odd appointments I have told work I have hospital appts and just taken the time off with proof of an appt card however am stressing re the week with 3 scans.  I have added up the total hours minus lunch beak and it comes to 4.5 hours so I am going to offer to take half a days holiday that week to make up the time.  I have not told anyone work, family or friends that I am going through a cycle.

Article in the Times yesterday re IVF saying that employers do not have to give time off for IVF appts etc, very hard isn't it?  Industrial Tribunal case re employee having time off etc, very interesting article.

I am lucky that I can get to the Chaucer in 45 mins from work and 30 mins from home, don't think I would manage it if I had to go to London.

Good luck and talk soon

Penny x


----------



## JaneyS

Hi Girls !

How is it going Penny?  

I've been doing the nasal spray all this week with my period due next Tuesday.  I read someone saying they nearly missed theirs as it was so light - anyone else had experience of this?

I feel a bit a sea really, I've been doing the spray, but don't have clear dates or anything from the Lister, although it just says to call when period started.  I'm assuming that when I go for my baseline scan/bloods that they will show me how to inject at this point?  Will they give me the dates for the next appointments then?

Giving up smoking was hard - didn't manage the first week I tried, but doing ok now...  Still getting big cravings, but just keep thinking about the little eggs I want to make...

Started acupuncture too.  A bit strange as the woman seemed quite negative about it working for us....  "...well with all your problems (blocked tubes, low sperm count, antibodies etc) and your age there are a lot of obstacles, I mean a lot of obstacles.  Still you have to give it a try don't you?".    Hmmmm.... perhaps I'm just being over-sensitive as usual.

Better get on with some work.  Hope you are all ok.

Lots of Love

Janey


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## JaneyS

Hi,

I've been doing my nasal spray since day 20 and it's now day 29 (my cycle normally 27 days) and no sign of period - Is this normal?  

Jane


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## JaneyS

Hi Girls!

Just thought I'd give you an update.  Went to the clinic last week for my first scan and to get the drugs and injection training - All ok so far.  Did the first injection in my thigh which was rather achy but I've done the others in my stomach no problem (despite being quite weird about stuff touching my stomach!).  So quite pleased with myself (although I'm sure you all manage this fine!).

Went for my second scan today and 6 follicles either side all doing well.  Going back for another scan on Thursday and then another on Monday....

Work being a bit of a pain - nothing too direct, but little snide comments about workload etc (this from my manager and director - the others don't know!).  had a bit of a meltdown yesterday (felt very hormonal) and now DH is not talking to me.  Don't want to slate him here, but rather fed up with not getting the support I think I need....

Oh well.  At least follies are doing ok.

How are you all?  What's new?

Jane
X


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## Frangipan

Hi Jane

Its sounding really good with the follies, you must be pleased! Hopefully EC next week?

Sorry about the snidey comments from work   . I sometimes think that they're the worst of all- little digs, keeping chipping away. Not being very sympathetic are they? Out of interest are they women? Try and turn a blind eye to it, you've got more important things going on at the moment. At least you're AT work, doing what you can.

As for DH, I'm afraid some of them aren't very sympathetic, just at the time you need them to be. I think as they don't get hormonal they don't get it when we are! Hope he starts talking to you soon though- you could do without that as well! Can you chat with him and try and explain things? The work pressure isn't helping and I'm afraid we all tend to take it out on our nearest and dearest without meaning to. My DH is very guilty of doing this.

Well Jane you're doing really well,try and ignore work comments (not easy I know) good luck for your next scan, you're getting there!  


Penny- How are things with you?

Angela xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## JaneyS

Thanks Angela for your kind words of support - It means alot.  Spent afternoon replying to emails from DH, he's calmed down a bit, but some horrible things were said (him not me!) and I don't know if I can forget them.  See how things go later when he's home.

12 sounds good - is it?  What is "normal" number for someone of my age?  Still I guess it all depends on quality anyway doesn't it?

Work are both men!  Hopeless!  I only told them so that they would be forewarned about the odd days holiday I'm taking - after all - it is MY holiday allowance that I'm using...  I didn't get to have a honeymoon year before last due to all the stuff going on at work and I didn't want to leave them in the lurch!  Sometimes it really does make you wonder - what do they want?  Blood?      After having gone through this, there really ought to be some kind of allowance given officially by the government don't you think?  After all, we didn't choose to be infertile and not be able to have a baby the "natural" way...  Anyway, better stop before I get on my soapbox...

Going to sit and listen to meditation CD (Zita West) now, to try and calm down.  Got to think of little follies !!!!


----------



## hopehopehope

Good luck Janey!! i sometimes think that i'm actually lucky to be single as
it's so much easier to have to  cope with yourself and noone else - but DH will
soon regret his grumpiness when you get your BFP ( or when ababy arrives if what my friends say is true!) My advice - don't have any expectations from anyone except from yourself - well done for the jabs!!!
I might move onto medicated iui next month ( am on 2WW at mo) si it's really good to hear your posts -  did you get an AMH test when they did FSH etc?

Regards work - tell em to get stuffed - you're potential baby is SOOOOO much important than anything they could ever do. 

Hello everyone else!!
Jane


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## Frangipan

Hi Janey

Hope things are abit calmer with DH now, iys now nice when things are said. They can't be unsaid. Hope you can put that to one side for now. 

12 follies sound brilliant, you hopefully will get some good eggs from them! Can't remember how many I had don't think it was that many but don't be disheartened no matter how many eggs you get. You only need 1 to do the business!

I agree about work. I sometimes think the more you do and the more you try and be flexible the more you are taken for granted. Well don't feel guilty, you are using your holiday entitlement.

Take care and good luck with the scan tomorrow  

Angela xxx


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## JaneyS

Just a quick question - If I normally have a 25 day cycle and I'm on day 7 today, when am I likely to have egg collection?  And if I had 12 follies yesterday, can I get more before collection or is that it?

God - If only we had all the answers to our million questions!!!


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## Frangipan

Hi Jane

Ignore your normal cycle length, you will be scheduled for EC when follicles are right size. As regards if you'll get anymore, when you have your scan (this is what happened with me anyway) they measure the follicles and usually when the 'lead' follicles- ie the biggest- get to a certain size, around 20 ish (I think) they will get you in for EC. I wouldn't _think_ you would get anymore but you may have had some smaller ones that have caught up abit. Sometimes not every follicle will contain an egg either but you sound as if yours are coming along nicely!!

Hope that helps

Angela xxxxxxxxx


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## JaneyS

Hi !

Just got back from scan and blood test at Lister and there are 4 more follies making 16 in total     , the lead ones are at 13mm...  They now want to see me Saturday for another blood test and scan in case they need to drop the dose of menopur (375 at the moment).  We have to be at the Lister for 8.30am !!!!  (Around a 2 hour train journey!).    Oh well - there goes my lie in!!  

Getting quite excited now (DH calmed down a bit now so things are on a more even keel).  Can't believe there are 16 follies - no wonder my stomach feels so bloated - struggled to bend down to unzip my boots at the scan this morning!  

They think that EC will be next Wednesday, so I'm guessing ET will be Friday (can't imagine at my age that there will be any good enough eggs to go for Blastocyst, but I can still hope).

I'm just trying to get through each day at a time, and trying not to stress too much about everything.  I can't somehow equate all this "medical stuff" (injections, nasal spray, scans) etc., with actually making a baby...  I'm really hoping though - we can't afford to do another cycle after this....

Will keep you all posted when I get back from London on Saturday (going to spend the day in town just walking and relaxing I hope).

Janey


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## Frangipan

Hi Jane

Fantastic news!!      Well done! Well, just shows what I know about more follies  . You sound like you're having a good response to the drugs which is good news! Shame about your lie in but it'll be worth it. Have you spoken to them about blasts? I expect they'll see how embryos are doing over the first few days, some clinics do a day 3 transfer.

Anyway well done agin, you're nearly there. I know exactly what you mean about equating all this medicalisation with a baby but believe me, when you're holding that little bundle, it all seems a distant memory! And fingers and everything else crossed, you won't need to worry about another cycle  

Keep up the PMA!!

Angela xxxxxxxxxx


----------



## chloe99

Hi janey - how did it go Saturday?

xx


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## JaneyS

Hi Chloe !

Went well on Saturday - Follies all doing well.  They dropped my dose of Menopur to 300 as things were moving on rather fast and I've just come back from another blood test and scan this morning at the Lister.  Hormones doing well (tell that to my husband     ), and follies ready to pop!!  Some at 21.5mm.  Nurse said I should have around 12 eggs/ripe follies (from the 16), so I'm really pleased about this.  

Now got to try and work out how I'm going to be at the Lister for 7am on Wednesday morning for EC when I live on the South Coast (trains won't get me there that early).  

Nurse thinks Saturday or Monday for ET (although I think Saturday as I can't imagine any high grade embies at my ripe old age of 41 - 42 at the end of June).   

Can't believe I've got to this stage....  Maybe I will be one of the lucky ones like Angela...     

Janey
xxxx


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## Frangipan

Janey!!

So pleased to hear your news, sounds as if things are cooking nicely  . Don't write off getting to blastocyst- you never know!

Re getting to Lister by 7am, can you stay the night before? Maybe a travel Inn or something? Thats what we did the night before our ET as we had to be in Bristol v early. Its so exciting for you, you have done so well and look well on track for a good number of eggs and I'll be keeping everything crossed that you ARE one of the lucky ones     

Be thinking of you Wednesday,

Angela xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## penny5

Hi guys

No personals I'm afraid as feel emotionally drained, but will have a go later tonight or tomorrow but thinking of you all anyway. 

I had my EC this morning and out of 8 follicles, just one egg.   Feeling so disappointed and let down as I look about 30 and feel about 30 but my body is obviously 40 much to my anger and frustration.  

A 2nd embryologist came to see us just prior to going home and she said that the good news is that the egg is mature and can be injected by ICSI (original plan)  which is going to happen this afternoon.  My DH quality has greatly improved too which is good news.  I had planned on having 2 embies transferred though due to age to improve our chances.

Fingers crossed and prayers that our one egg fertilises, we await a call tomorrow morning.   

No pain apart from light AG type cramping and not sore or anything after EC but going to take it easy today as emotionally shattered.

Almost too scared to take the Call in them morning a if bad news dreams shattered until start another cycle but time running out at 40.

Sorry for selfish post, will do personal tomorrow when feeling brighter hopefully...

Good luck Janey for EC tomorrow.

Penny x


----------



## Frangipan

Hi Penny  

I know how disappointed you must feel but please try to stay positive. It wasn't a duff egg that couldn't be ICSI'd and if DH quality is much improved then hopefully you will have a good embryo to put back. I know it might not help much but over the years I have read so many times on this site of everything resting on that one little egg and it turns out well so try and sleep well and I'll keep everything crossed for a lovely little embryo waiting for you  

Lots of love   

Angela xxxxx


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## madison

Sorry to butt in...

  Penny... LOADS of luck for the phonecall, I normally only get 2 eggs & I did get Miles from the 1 that
  fertilised.. xxx

  Jayney.. Lots of luck for EC. xx


----------



## Jeza

Heya Janeys,
I hope all is going well with you.  I see you have your ET on May 23rd.  I'm having mine the next day.  I know it's your first time, as you can see this is my third and last, probably.  Maybe we can be 2ww budies.  It's tough waiting for those 2 weeks to pass, but think, in 3 weeks we will know one way or the other!  I only got 3 follies growing now, I hope they make 2 good eggs and embies.  I'm only allowed to put back 2 as I'm not quite 40 yet.  (2 more months)
All the best for you   
Jeza


----------



## penny5

Hi Maddison and Angela

Thank you so much for your encouraging words and support, it means alot to me. 

Great to hear Maddison that your little boy was born and you only had 2 eggs.  What will be will be now, I can't do any more but wait and pray. 

So many emotional hurdles to deal with.  DH and me both burst into tears when we were told that the egg was good enough.  Hopeing it's good news tomorrow but bracing myself to deal with the upset if it is not good news.

I'll keep you posted.

Janey-good luck it sounds as though you are doing great!

Bye for now

Penny x


----------



## Frangipan

Hello Ladies

Penny-    Really hope you had good news this morning   

Janey- thinking of you and hoping EC goes well for you  

Angela xxxx


----------



## penny5

Hello Everyone

My one egg fertilised!!!!!  

Thanks for asking this morning Angela, means alot to me.

Thanks for all of your encouragement and support and I am in for ET at 2pm tomorrow.

Just a quick note, as DH taken morning off work as such a special moment and will post personals later today or tom after ET.

Sending you all a hug...

Penny


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## annacameron

good luck Penny and Janey. xxx


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## Frangipan

Penny,

           

WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!! Great news, sounds like your little eggie has done everything it needed to do! Please remember- you only need one!!!! Enjoy your time with DH and I'm so happy for you, well done!! 

Woohoo!!!

Angela xxxxxxxxxxx

PS  Forgot to say- good luck for ET tomorrow xx


----------



## madison

Oh Penny....         

                    Thats put a huge smile on my face, I have been out all day & just had to come on & see how
                    your phone call went, Couldn't have been better hey   

                    So pleased for you & loads of luck for tomorrow. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## hopehopehope

WEll done Penny - good luck for the transfer and your 2WW xx


----------



## penny5

Hi Ladies

I am overwhelmed with your lovely messages, thank you so much.

How amazing is it to share the experience with others who have gone through or are going through IVF an understand the emotional rollercoaster that the journey is.

I have decided to see if I can take next week off as holiday too, to allow me to rest and ensure that I have done everything possible to help the embie to stay in its new home!

So lovely to think that you have logged on to check my progress, a big hug to Angela, Maddison, Hopehopehope.

Sure I will be posting again soon.

Lots of love Penny x


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## Frangipan

Good idea Penny , some R and R sounds like a fab idea! Good luck for transfer tomorrow, it'll be fine. Take care and well done again! 

Angela xxxxxxxxxx


----------



## JaneyS

Hi Girls!

Got back from EC last night, but just dropped in to bed as exhausted but then couldn't sleep as worrrying about phone call today.

Penny - So good to hear about your little eggie fertilising - sounds to me that he/she can't wait to get snuggled in.  Stay positive - this one sounds determined!      

Stayed over in London night before as couldnt' get trains early enough and we got to Lister by 6.45am!  Hubbie did his bit fine (got phone call in room and said to me "Emma needs me" with a big cheeky smile!).  The recovery room Nurse told me that they had got 17 eggs!   Quite surprised as only 16 follies with last scan,although I'm sure at least 5 of them will be too immature.  But as Penny shows - you only need one good one.   

Didn't get much sleep last night as now worrying about next stage - phone call this morning - what if none fertilise?  What if there are no good grade eggs?  I'm sure you all know the drill....  They said Embryologist would call between 10am and 12, so got a few hours to get through now.    

Speak to you all later....

Janey


----------



## JaneyS

Just got my call and out of 17 eggs collected, 15 were injectable and 11 fertilised !!!   

Provisionally booked in for Saturday transfer, but if they can't pick the best two, then they are going to take to blastocyst stage for transfer on Monday...    I'm in shock !


----------



## penny5

Hi Janey

Just read both of your posts, fantastic news!  

Keep everything crossed for you re ET   

Penny x


----------



## jane39

Hi ladies

Im just getting ready to start tx, just waiting for Af... !! Hope and pray this time its my turn.... 

Its been good to read about you all and looking forward to tx with you soon  

jane x


----------



## Frangipan

Hi Janey,

Wow! Thats an amazing fertilisation rate!          You must be very pleased. Hopefully there may be some good enough for the  freezer too. Well done! Loads of luck for either Saturday or Monday!

Penny- how are you feeling today? Hopefully your little embie is getting lovely and cosy!  

Jane-   and welcome! Hope these ladies positive stories have helped you feel ready to go. Lots of luck! Keep chatting  

Well, what a successful EC week! Thats great news!

Have a good and relaxing weekend

Angela xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## penny5

Hi 

Hi Angela-The ET went very well, thanks for asking, far better than expected as I did not have any pain or discomfort at all.  My consultant is such a lovely genuine person that he makes you feel so comfortable and special.  The embryo is a grade 2 and at 4 cells which they said was great and we did not have to go for assisted hatching either.  

It was a very emotional and amazing experience and then DH and I went to Hythe with the roof down, as such a gorgeous day here and had lunch at the sea.  Then off for acupuncture.  So a very enjoyable day.

Yesterday my DH bought me a dozen orange roses, a smaller bouquet of orange roses and 2 orange gerbera plants and a R & B love songs CD and tonight cooked dinner, so i feel very spoilt indeed.  I wore an Orange/red skirt and even bought a pair of orange frilly knickers (Zita West re orange being a good colour after ET).

Fingers crossed that it takes, I am going to rest and take it easy and ensure I have all the right nutrients and diet etc to give it the best possible chance and pray every day too.  I will keep you posted.  

Welcome Jane-you will find this site invaluable for both support and friendship and knowledge too.  I have picked up so many good tips and advice from here. Good luck with your treatment.

Janey-Good luck for ET and do not worry, a million times better than expected and a very emotional and special moment.

Bye for now, got to go and put my feet up on the sofa!

Penny x


----------



## Frangipan

Penny

What a fantastic thoughtful DH you have!! How lovely, that made me go 'aahhhh' out loud! Mine went and bought lots of comedy cd's to listen to in the car on the journey home from ET as he read laughing is supposed to help- think I'd rather have had the gorgeous flowers but its the thought that counts!!  

Good idea with the acupuncture too, sounds like you're doing all the right things. Just try and stay positive now, and have a lovely weekend with your lovely DH.  

Angela xxxxxxxxxx


----------



## JaneyS

Hi All!

Penny - your DH sounds lovely - You get your lovely little one all snug and safe and let him pamper you!  

I've called the Lister this morning as I wanted to know how the eggs had done overnight and also what grades they were (I think they grade based on splitting which doesn't happen until around 24-36 horus after fertilisation).  Haven't heard anything back from them yet.....

Janey
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## JaneyS

I've just heard back from Embryologist and she says all eleven eggs are Grade 1's!!!  6 x 4 cell and 5 x 2 cell.  They still can't say whether they will go blastocyst and she says eggs have a tendancy to arrest at 4 cell quite often.  Phew!!!  Can't wait to get them back in though!!!


----------



## hopehopehope

Janey!!! that's amazing news, I so hope they get well past the 8 cell stage and beyond!!! Thinking of you, Jane


----------



## penny5

Janey-Fantastic news!  You and DH must be so pleased, good luck for ET... 

Angela-Not an easy time the 2ww is it?  Wondering if tummy pains and ovulation type pains in thighs are indicative that all is ok or period on way?  The Zita West book says it can be either or!  Not helpful at all! Will just have to do everything right and only time will tell.   

Already visualised so many times the morning of 4th June and said that DH will have to look at the test result as I will be to scared!

Jane-Hope you are doing ok.

Bye for now

Penny x


----------



## Frangipan

Hi Penny,

Oh, poor you, the 2WW is AWFUL. You can't help but analyse every single twinge! I would honestly not think AF is knocking on the door at this early stage   and as the 2WW progresses, AF type pains and early BFP are very similar so its so hard but stay positive and when you visualise that test result on 4 June, make sure it's a + that you think of !! You sound as if you're doing all the right things, just try and relax (I know, I know!!) and think happy thoughts  

Janey- hope ET went well if it was today  

Jane - Any sign of AF yet? 

Angela xxxx


----------



## livity k

Hi Everyone, 
hope it's ok to contribute to this post
I'm not over 40 but am at exactly the same stage as you Janey, my ec was on wed and we're going for a blast transfer on monday- 
Did you have your et today or are you waiting till mon?
Really inspiring and comforting to read what everyone is going through- finger's crossed for us all
maybe catch up on 2ww posts
love

K


----------



## JaneyS

Hi All!

Got the call yesterday from Emma who said the eggs are all doing so well she couldn't make  a choice and so we are going for Blastocyst on Monday!     

Still feeling pretty sore which Emma said was to be expected with so many eggs.

Can't wait to get the little ones back in!

Hi Livity!  - Good luck for your Blastocyst transfer on Monday - How exciting we are at exactly the same stage!   

Hi Penny - God I'm not looking forward to the 2ww.  All sorts of strange things have been happening to our bodies for the last few weeks and so it must be so hard not to analyze every twinge and ache.  I still have very sore (*)(*) and sore tummy so will be starting with that!  All we can do is  


Hi Jane - Hope you are getting started.  Let us know how you are getting on. 

Jane


----------



## Frangipan

Ladies

Congratulations Janey! You must be thrilled with that news, its all sounding very positive! Only one more sleep to go!  . Drink plenty of water to flush through the follicles

Livity- Thats great that you and Jane are at exactly the same stage, it'll be so helpful to 'hold each others hands' in the weeks that come! Welcome to this thread by the way and as you say, fingers crossed for you all  

Penny- Hope you're doing well, thinking of you all, the 2ww is a trial  

Well don't know what you've all got but I've got beautiful   today so going to take Lara for a walk.

Have a lovely Bank Holiday,
loads of luck for tomorrow Janey and Livity (ET is usually VERY straightforward and not painful) . I'm thinking of you all, 

Angela xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## penny5

Hi everyone

Just a quick post, usual rain here for Bank Holiday, but off for the week (apart from half day Friday) so I don't mind, but shame for people going back to work.

Good luck to Janey and Jane for ET today   , hope it goes well for you both.

Angela-TMI-sorry!  I have a heavy discharge this morning (clear) approx 30 mins after putting in cylomest pessary at front, not had this before?  Is this normal?  Yesterday/today are the days where my little embie is supposed to hatch out and try to implant.  I am going to calll the hospital to see if i need to pop another one in, as feel that it has dissolved and all come out!  Sorry for the TMI but guessing after you having Lara, you pretty used to detail!  I hope you hve hd a lovely weekend, must be lovely living in Devon!  Are you near the sea?

Talk to you all soon...

Penny x


----------



## madison

HI all,

   Penny... I use gestone now but when I used Cylogest they said its best if you can put it in & then lay down for
   half an hour & then any you loose after that is ok cos it will have already done its stuff. 

   Janey &  livity k ... Hope ET went well today.. Janey. That was an AMAZING amount if eggs & fertilisation.. I have had
   7 IVF's so far & add all my eggs together & it doesn't make that many ! 

   Hi to everyone else.... Only 4more days of the tablets to stop AF from arriving early & then my scan in 8 days time
   (2dn ) June & if everythings ok its straight into stims that day.

   Love Katy. xxxx


----------



## JaneyS

Supposed to have Et today, but when we got there, Embryologist said eggs at Morula stage and they are still all equally good so they couldn't chose.  Now have to do another 4 hour round trip tomorrow for ET and Dh won't be able to come with me!!!  He has major stuff going on at work tomorrow and can't cancel it at this late stage....  Trying not to be too upset cos that will upset him too, but really wanted him to be there.  

Has anyone else had 6 day blastocyst transfer?


----------



## chloe99

oooohh Janey - maybe you'll get to freeze loads of blasts as well!!!! How exciting.


----------



## hopehopehope

Janey - you have such a great set of chances for this working out. Re DH - just think, he's going to be there for all the rest of your journey, so one day doesn't really make a difference - the 2WW is when you need the support.  and as Chloe says, you're going to have so many to freeze that it's bound, by the law of averages, to work at some point. you will get your BFP.    (any left over frosties , send my way - i'm on a 2 year wait!!! ) 

Good luck for tomorrow


----------



## Frangipan

Hi Penny

Sorry for delay! Yes I did get alot of leakage from the pessaries (hideous!) and as Katy rightly says, if you can lay down it can help. From what I remember it was quite white in colour. Do ring the clinic if you're at all concerned though about anything. When is test day?   Yes I am lucky enough to live round the corner from Paignton seafront! It was glorious all day here yesterday (sorry to all those who had   ). Keep up the PMA    

Janey- Sorry DH can't be there with you. What a time this is for you! Loads of luck for tomorrow, its such a quick process, you'll hopefully be in and out quickly (bummer when its a 4 hour round trip!) As the girls have said, sounds like its looking great for frosties! 

Livity- hope you're resting up now after ET yest  

Katy- Hi! We're almost neighbours!  Loads of luck on your next cycle. Lets hope this is the one for you     

Hope other ladies are well and  treatment is going well  

Angela xxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## JaneyS

Hi Girls!

Finally got to my 2ww (although it's really just over a week!).  DH managed to shuffle stuff at work and managed to get to Lister in plenty of time.  One "beautiful" blast and morula put back today.  Marie said focus was on blast (almost suggesting morula would definitely not make it).  But for now, "Harold" and "Maude" (DH has strange taste in films!  ) are safe and hopefully getting snug. 

Test is 2 weeks from EC so that will be a week tomorrow!!!     

So excited and nervous etc etc.,.....

Hope you are all ok - How are you feeling Livitiy K ?

Janey
x


----------



## livity k

Hi Janey
So glad they are in and snug! 

I've spent day cycling between bed and sofa and generally looked after by DH - it is so hard not to analyse every feeling but have distracted myself with a lot of day time tv and a bit of cooking! 

Have a good evening.

Hope everyone else is well and good luck to all 

K


----------



## annacameron

Congrats on being PUPO Janey. and on having so many doing so well. that HAS to be a great indicator of egg quality. it's amazing how they get weeded out by taking them on to the blastocyst stage.  otherwise it would be more pot luck. as it is, you know you have the very best back and hopefully doing their stuff shortly.


----------



## jane39

Ladies

Enjoying seeing how you are all doing, just had my treatment postponed after a borderline smear test result, 3 month to wait to see what happens next, still routing for you all....

take care 

jane x


----------



## Frangipan

Janey

Great news! Well done you-you must be so relieved, it sure is a tumultuous journey isn't it? So pleased DH was able to go with you in the end. Well not long at all to wait now, the next week will pass quickly (hopefully  ) Are you off work? Really be   hard for you that Harold and Maude (!) are getting comfy. As Anna rightly says, you know you've got a couple of goodys there......

Livity- good girl getting DH doing all the running round for you! Long may it continue! Lots of best wishes for your 2WW as well   

Jane- sorry to hear your news. What a disappointment for you but better to know you're in the best health before you start. Really hope the next few month pass quickly for you. Stay in touch  

Angela xxx


----------



## penny5

Hi Angela

Many thanks for your reply, I phoned the hospital and they said that it was just the coating that was the white stuff and the actual medication would still be in place.  Had af pains yesterday instead of the usual stabbing pains/cramping I have been having so had a down day and thought it had not worked.  Feel better today as usual type tummy pains again.  So much harder than I thought it would be!

Poured down with rain every day so far this week, so glad not off doing anything special re the weather etc!

Back to work for half day on Friday and it will give me a head start for the full 5 day week after.  Got accupuncture again on Friday morning before work first one since ET.  The lady is great, a midwife and Zita West trained too.

What a beautiful place you live in!  i used to go to Paignton when I was a little girl and loved it.  Talk soon x

Hi Janyey-Congratulations on being PUPO!  Good that you only have to wait a week now.  

Catch up soon
Penny x


----------



## Frangipan

Just checking in to make sure you're staying sane!! Nearly the weekend then it will be test week, ope you're not going too   and have some nice things planned for the weekend. Hope work goes OK tomorrow Penny, at least it will keep you busy. I went to work and I think it helped pass the time.

Anyway we're all still routing (rooting?) for you all!       

Angela xxxx


----------



## JaneyS

I already feel like I'm going a bit     !!!!  Was worried first because I wasn't feeling anything at all, and now I'm worried because I'm having sort of period pains...  No spotting or anything though.  At the end of the day I guess I'm just going to have to wait....    Oh well - only 4 more sleeps to go.  Desperately trying not to do test early.....

How early did you test Angela?

Janey
x


----------



## Frangipan

Morning Janey

Oh the 2WW is hideous. Take heart though that lots of ladies feel as if AF is about to turn up but go on to get a BFP! You've had alot of poking and prodding in there and I think it takes a while for everything to settle down again. I'm afraid I didn't test early. I was due to test on the Thursday and tested in the middle of Thursday afternoon. I know lots do test early though, have your clinic told you to test yourself at home? Mine did and recommended Clearblue- I think the digital ones are good. I'm not going to tell you to test or not early, thats up to you but if you do one early, try and leave til after the weekend.
Oh, I'm so excited for you all!! Lets hope this little thread is a lucky one!!                

Penny and Livity- Hope you're doing OK     

Angela xxxxx


----------



## JaneyS

Hi Angela,

I've also got the clearblue digital one (and the regular one!   ).  

Going to try and hold out until next week...  Nurse said Pygesterone would stop bleeding anyway so I guess that's no indication that I haven't bleed at all.  And I understand that it takes a time for the HCG injection to leave your system so that could also give a false positive.  Nurse said to test at home 14 days after EC (which seems quite early compared to some who've been told 14 days after ET?).  Makes sense to be from EC though as that is the day of fertilisation.

God this really is tough!!!    .  I so want to be able to give my DH a gorgeous baby (or two!   ).  Off to have my hair done this afternoon to try and take my mind off things and I'm back to work on Monday ( ).  Only 4 more sleeps to go....

Hope other girls are getting on ok....?


----------



## penny5

Hi everyone

Just a quick late post to say hi to you all.

Angela-Really struggling with the 2ww, had a little AF pain tonight and it puts  you into panic mode!  I had accupuncture this morning which helps and my lady is a midwife and Zita West trained, so always good to chat to.

Feeling fairly positive most days, but then really worried when AF pains start again.

Good luck for testing Jane, I have bought First Response, have 3 as on offer recently in Superdrug.  Hope you are ok too Livity and Maddison.

Enjoy the sun this weekend and roll on testing dates...  

Night Penny x


----------



## Frangipan

Penny

Try not to be too worried about strange pains/feelings. Its really not unusual, AF pain and early pregnancy discomfort are remarkably similar. Its out of your hands now and unfortunately all you can do is wait, agonising as that is. You're nearly there now, try and enjoy the lovely weekend weather and keep up the positivity.

I feel for you all, I really do, it really is an awful time   and is the longest 2ww ever!

Angela xxxx


----------



## penny5

Thanks Angela

I am positive most of the time but then when I have AF pain which I had today and yesterday, it makes you think that it hasn't worked.  I have done everything I can now so as you say, just have to wait.

Already decided that if it is negative, we shall see if we can get booked on next cycle asap.  DH been great, had my first tears today so not done bad. 

Can't wait but also scared re the 4th but be good to know one way or another.  

Love to everyone else and enjoy the sun! 

Penny x


----------



## Frangipan

Hi Penny

Sorry to hear you felt upset yesterday  . I don't think any of us realise just how difficult this really can be, how draining emotionally. It is hard not to imagine the worst when we get AF like pains too. Still not long to go now and I hope it helped having talked about a back up plan with DH BUT   you won't need it!!

Lovely day here in Paignton. Really happy as Diversity won BGT last night, thought they were fab! Enjoy the day all 

Angela xxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## JaneyS

Hi All,

I'm struggling too Penny - I think it's hard too after all the scans and monitoring to feel kind of out on a limb by yourself, just waiting.  It seems like years until Wednesday and like you, I'm positive most of the time, but then have some real negative thoughts.  If this doesn't work for us, then unfortunately there is no way we could afford to do it again (already maxed out on credit cards etc).  This is our one chance.  

I have pretty much constant aches which haven't gone since the EC so I'm not sure what I should read into that...

Anyway, going to try and get out and enjoy the sunshine today  (spent most of yesterday in tears!).  

I also wanted Diversity to win too so was very pleased for them!  

Janey
x


----------



## Frangipan

Hi Ladies

Still thinking about you all and sending lots of                  

Sorry to hear you've both felt low. Only a few days to go.

Angela xxxxxxx


----------



## JaneyS

Hi,

Felt very low all weekend.  Still getting quite bad AF type pains and also now getting headaches.  TMI _ This morning had v. small amount of brown stuff and so did test.  Thought it came up negative and went to pieces a bit.  Now I've looked at it again, and it does look like the faintest of lines but I really can't be sure and I'm doubting myself.  Everyone seems to think that I'm testing too early on Wednesday but this is the date that the Lister gave me (I've checked several times).

This is so hard and I feel a bit like I'm going to pieces at the moment and I've lost my PMA.  This really is the hardest thing I've ever had to do.

Didn't go to work in the end today and now I'm worrying about that too - All during my time off for treatment, haven't heard anything really from Boss (not supportive as promised), and now I'm worried about my position.  All in all, going a bit mental.

Jane
X


----------



## chloe99

janey - what test did you use?  First response really is the best and pink line tests much better than blue (another good but cheaper one is in asda - not their own brand but a pink dye one at around £7.50 for 2, called Lady something).  If there is even the faintest of lines that is pink (on a pink test) then it is either hcg trigger or BFP!!!  When you have a negative First Response test then when it is ready to read there will absolutely no hint of any kind of line (I have tested them on a male just to be sure!!!).  Blue dye tests not quite so reliable and cheapo tests can also leave a kind of shadow line which leaves you wondering.

I really hope it works out for you, let us know how you're doing.  What test did you use and was it first morning urine?

xx


----------



## chloe99

Janey - I read back on the thread and think you used clear blue non digi?  If so then it says on their site that 16% of ladies get a false negative 2 days before af is due.  So keep up the PMA!


----------



## Frangipan

Jane

I agree with Chloe about tests. I think all in all clearblue tests -and pref the digital ones- are the best. I know of someone from the clinic I went to who tested a couple of days early got a negative and felt as you do. She tested again on correct day and got a positive so don't give up. As for the date, I would go with what Lister have said. They should know. I know work is a worry but try not to stress about that at the moment, I'm sure they'll be OK  . Sending you a great big hug. xx

Angela xxxxx


----------



## JaneyS

Thank you for all your kinds words.  TMI :  There was more brown discharge this morning and some fresh blood (a small amount).  I think it's all over.


----------



## Frangipan

Oh Jane  

Well I guess the only way to know for sure is to test. You can have bleeds for any number of reasons so its not all over and until I hear otherwise I'll keep everything crossed      for you.Have you gone to work today? Don't give up hope     

Thinking of you 

Angela xxxxx


----------



## penny5

Hi Jane

Its not over till its over my dear so please stay positive and don't let stress wear you down (easy to say I know).  You still have the official test to do yet so fingers crossed xxxxx and  ...

Penny5 xx


----------



## Frangipan

Penny

How are you doing?     

Angela xxx


----------



## Frangipan

Jane

Hope you're OK 

Angela xxxx


----------



## madison

Hi,

    Jane... Hope you are ok   

    Penny.. How are things with you ??

    Angela... Hi there, yes we almost are neighbours   I post on the SDS thread, I knew your name from
    somewhere    Are we allowed to say hi ??  

    Had scan today.. Start stims in the morning, No DR or anything, 3 small follies, same as usual & prob all
    I will end up with at the end too as thats the norm with me.

  Love Katy. xxx


----------



## penny5

Hi everyone

Jane-I expect you do not feel like posting at the moment, but just to say thinking about you and fingers crossed still for your official test tom    

Angela-Not doing too bad thanks for asking.  2 weeks since EC today so aware poss day of period due?  Slight af pains again today but not for long, on constant knicker watching!  Only got tom and OTD Thursday, excited and scared at the same time, very mixed bag of emotions!  

Already had the moment so many times in my mind.  My boss only comes to see me approx 1-2 times a month max as he looks after all the branches on a national basis and guess what, he is coming in on Thursday!!!  Oh well, if it is bad news, it will make me pull myself together for work.

Maddison-Thanks for asking, having positive days and really down days.  Suffered terrible headches and migraines last 2 days.  It may be stress of work, stress of test looming, worry re af starting or probably all 3!

Hope you are doing ok.

Catch up soon Penny x


----------



## JaneyS

Hi Girls

SORRY TMI! : Well the brown stuff is still there and some fresh blood too again this morning (not much though), but tested and got  !!!!  Can't believe it!!!  I used a CB digital one this time.  Still extremely worried about bleeding so called Lister.  She's just called back and said if I'm going to miscarry there is nothing to do but wait.  She said to try not to worry about bleeding as this is really common and she gets 5 calls about it everyday....  She's told me to increase pessary to one in the morning and one in the evening while the bleeding continues and to go back to one once it's stopped (hopefully).  She also said not to bother testing again tomorrow as it would still show as pregnant for up to 4 days even if I miscarry.

God this is so hard - I want to be happy for the  but I can't help but worry about the blood...


----------



## madison

Jayne,

  The woman I cycled with last time got a BFP & she bleed for about the first 12 weeks I think. She is now over 20
  weeks pregnant & everythings going well   Lots of    

  Love Katy. xxx


----------



## JaneyS

Hi Katy,

Thank you for your post - Fingers crossed it stops soon...  

Jane


----------



## Mrs CW

Janey have a look on the pregnancy boards here honey, there are literally 100s of posts from ladies with a bfp and a bleed.  All of them have answers from other FFers who have bled and gone on to have their baby with no problems.  
  
If your positive results are getting stronger, ie the line's getting stronger, then that's a good sign.  When I had a biochemical (feint line then a bleed) the result never got any stronger, it started positive then faded to a negative as I did more tests  

Claire x


----------



## JaneyS

Hi Claire,

I did a Digital test, so it just says pregnant or not pregnant.  I think I may get a normal one to try on sunday..

Thank you for your kind words - it really does help.  

Janey


----------



## Frangipan

OMG,OMG,OMG!!!!!! Oh Janey, I agree with the sentiments from the others. Someone on our thread had a BFP and had bleeds for the first 12 weeks but now has a happy healthy 18 month old! Sometimes its just one of those things that theres no obvious reason for. I don't suppose for one minute that will stop you worrying but OMG, you've got a BFP! I'm going to (cautiously) congratulate you and tell you how happy I am for you and once the bleeding stops   we can congratulate you loudly!  

Fingers and evrything crossed that its your turn tomorrow Penny      

Katy- Loads of luck to you too hope the follies work their magic!    

Angela xxxxx


----------



## JaneyS

Started bleeding properly this afternoon with one big blood clot.  It's over. Called Lister twice and emailed since 1.30pm but no-one bothered to call back.


----------



## Frangipan

Oh Jane

I can't believe it, how unbelievably cruel. Hope you get to speak to the clinic quickly    

Angela xxx


----------



## Mrs CW

Oh, very sorry hun


----------



## penny5

Hi Jane,

Following my message of the other thread, I have now just picked up your message on this one and so feel for you      . I wish I could do more. Stay strong hun.

Penny5 xx


----------



## penny5

Hi Everyone

Well it's a   for us...

It's been an exciting and emotional roller coaster ride which we have had to stop for now but we will be back on it soon!

We couldn't have done any more, did everything right and even held off from testing until the OTD.

You have all been great and helped so much along the way and been a pleasure to chat to.

Wishing you lots of    and    and well done to all the   with your pregnancies and wishing lots of sticky vibes to those still to test.

Bye for now Penny x


----------



## madison

Penny,

    I am so sorry, you seem to have the right attitude to it all, Like you said.. you did everything right, it just wasn't your
    turn, I don't know how long you will be waiting till the next go but some clinics will let you phone to make a follow up
    without waiting for one to come in the post & if your clinic has a long wait between cycles cos they are busy then it
    means phoning them in a quicker way to get back on the roller coaster again.
    Thinking of you     


    Jayne,

      How are things this morning ??      , I hope the clinic got back
      to you with some advice.

        Love Katy. xxxx


----------



## Frangipan

Oh Penny

I'm really sorry   , I was really praying for a positive result for you. Its not alot of consolation but often your first cycle tells the clinic alot about you in how you respond etc so at least next time they have more info about you. As you rightly say, you couldn't have done anymore this time and it is such a rollercoaster. But obviously, for now, take care of each other and we've also enjoyed chatting with you. Don't disappear!    I'm really really sorry again Penny xx

Jane- How are you feeling today? Hope you managed to get some sleep last night and you speak to the Lister ASAP  

Angela xxx


----------



## JaneyS

Hi Girls,

The Lister did finally get back to me yesterday 3.5 hours later (after two phone calls and emails)...

I've done two more home tests - both clearblue - one digital and one regular so I could see how dark the line was. Both are showing  BUT the Nurse did say yesterday that if I've miscarried the HCG will stay in my system for another 3-4 days so I guess it's really false hope.

I went for a blood test at the Lister this morning as they advised and I'm waiting to hear back from them. I can't really believe that with the big period pains and heavy bleeding that I'm getting   (TMI: including blood clots) that it really could be good news, but part of me can't give up and I just keep thinking that maybe one made it....   

*Penny* - I'm so, so sorry to hear your news and you have a wonderful positive outlook and as Angela says, if you can do another cycle, then this time they will know more...


----------



## Frangipan

Hi Jane

Sorry to hear you're having such a horrible time. I take it the Lister are checking your HCG levels? Have they asked you to go back to have it repeated in 48 hours? The levels should be doubling in this time so it will give an indication of whats happening. I guess thats about all they can do at this stage, which is horrible for you  . As for hanging on to that bit of hope, I don't blame you. Any one of us would be doing exactly the same and it goes without saying thats what we are all hoping for you

Angela xxxx


----------



## JaneyS

Hi Anglea,

No - they didn't mention anything about another test in 48 hours....  The nurse just asked a couple of questions (i.e. how heavily bleeding etc) and then just kind've went Ah...   So didn't sound to great, although as normal this could me being paranoid.

Still waiting for them to call - they said they'd call by 1pm and it's 1.30pm now...  

Janey


----------



## Frangipan

Hi Jane

Don't you live a long way from the Lister? Your GP surgery should be able to do another blood test for you. The results probably wouldn't be back as quickly, thats the only thing and you would need your test result from today for your GP to compare. Just a thought to save you additional stress of travel. Hope they've rung you by now  

Angela xxx


----------



## JaneyS

Hi Angela,

Since no-one bothered to call me back again, I rang them and managed (after several attempts) to get through to the Nurse.  She said my levels were 89 (which I thought was low for 16dpo - I thought they should be around 350-400), but she said as long as they were above 25 that I am pregnant ...?    

I tried to ask her what she thought, but she wouldn't really say, but seemed to be suggesting more likely that pregnancy "not viable".  They want me to have another test on Saturday at 8am but I can't get there for then.  I've tried my local hospital and Doctor and they aren't even open.

Just as I was typing this, another Nurse called me from yesterdays message!!!!  Went through the whole thing with her and she said not to worry as I was still pregnant, the levels were good and it was common to have heavy period like bleed.  She then went to get the Consulant (Mr Thum) to speak to me who then said it's not good, you are miscarrying.  Do another home test on Sunday and go for scan on Monday to ensure miscarriage complete.

I am devastated.  And they can't even agree on what is happening.  This is just torture.


----------



## annacameron

Jane, Im so sorry about all this. 
As if we don't go through enough to have this messing around. 

I am afraid the torture till continue till things are clearer. 
All I would say is - why not ask about gestone (100ml intra muscular injection in buttcok but perfectly easy for partner to do) to stop the bleeding? 

Most clinics would suggest this right now....

I am sorry but the Lsiter is not coming up to scratch with this. It is too precious to throw away a bfp and hcg in the 80s and if there is any risk the lining coming away could take a perfectly good embryo too, you MUST try to stop that happening. 

Id really hassle them for gestone to hold the lining....

good luck


----------



## Frangipan

Oh Janey  

What a nightmare to have contradictory information  . Its so unfair for you.

I don't know alot about what Anna is saying but it sounds reasonable? Certainly worth trying to pursue? Can you get to the clinic later than 8am on Saturday for bloods? Maybe you can ask to see them later as getting there for 8 is impossible. Otherwise, you can do as the consultant suggests and see them on Monday. It sounds to me as if nobody can say for sure what is going on  (which I suppose is understandable until they get blood results) but its not on to give you 2 different opinions. I'm sure you don't know what to think. Did you get to speak to someone from the local hospital? Hosp would be the best bet as the lab is there if you can twist someones arm.

It won't be any consolation but I really feel for you. To be in this limbo is terrible  

Angela xxxxxxxx


----------



## JaneyS

They've told me to do the pessaries twice a day now rectally (since I'm bleeding). I asked if it was possible at all to come in any later than 8am for the test and they said no as they have to courier (?)

I have my scan appointment on Monday to "ensure that the miscarriage is complete" and if not they will "do a procedure to remove the remains".

I've tried my Doctor and local hospital but they are both closed for blood tests on Saturday anyway.

I'm going to use three pessaries anyway. I have to try.

While typing this, my local GP has just rung and said she is going to see if she can find someone to do the blood test on Saturday (I still think I wouldn't get the results until Monday anyway, but it's nice of her to try to help). _Dr just rang back to tell me no local Hospitals will do blood test on Saturday_

I really can't take this anymore, I'm trying to be strong, but it's just agony. If it's going to happen, I just want it over with.


----------



## 39already

I just wanted to write to say how sorry I am that this is happening to you.  It is an awful situation to be in.  All you can do is wait and see.  Definitely use the pessaries though.  I had terrible bleeding shortly after my BFP and was in a terrible state so have some understanding of how you feel.  What happened to me was that I had two implant and the bleeding was around the second one.  Sorry I haven't read back, but did you have more than one transferred?  

I really hope that things work out OK for you.  Look after yourself x


----------



## Frangipan

I wish I could do/say something to make it all OK for you. Its such an agonising time. One last thought- is there a private hospital/ IVF clinic near you? Maybe they could do the bloods on Saturday if you feel you can't/ don't want to wait til Monday. Obviously it would cost but I wouldn't think it would be a fortune. Other than that, the waiting is hell but only a few days til Monday     

Hope you've got DH there to look after you 

Angela xxxx


----------



## madison

Jayne,

  I am really sorry about whats happening,

  I hope they are also going to do bloods on Monday aswell as a scan because if there is still something there it 
  would be to early to see a heartbeat so they wouldn't know if it was all over or not, Like someone said, if you had
  2 transfered then you could still have one in there.

  I will be thinking of you all weekend.

  Love Katy. xxx


----------



## JaneyS

Just wanted to say Hi to you all.  I'm still bleeding heavily and have bad period pains.    Having to take Paracetamol every two hours at least.  It appears to be inevitable that I'm miscarrying and so I don't even think I'll bother with blood test tomorrow.  I'll go for scan on Monday so that they can check it's all over properly but that's it.  To be honest, the way me and my husband feel about our treatment over the last few days at the Lister, I really don't want to go anywhere near the place. 

Since I started bleeding, they haven't done anything to help and given no advice whatsoever - they only told me Wednesday night to start taking an extra pessary!   I just feel that once the Embryos were put back in that they haven't wanted to know since.  Added to that, the "production line" method of dealing with us and minimum hour long wait for all our appointments (including our first consultation and appointments made for the first slot in the day!), trying to talk to the Consultant when I went down to theatre for EC and the consultant just sticking the needle in my arm to knock me out while I was still trying to talk to her...   Well let's just say, I won't be recommending them to anyone.

I'm in a lot of pain (physical and emotional) at the moment and I don't feel I've had any support from the Lister at all.  Thank God for my gorgeous Husband who couldn't be looking after me any better.


----------



## Frangipan

Oh Jane, what a horrible time. Sorry to hear the bleeding is continuing  , I think you're doing the right thing waiting til Monday rather than the extra stress of racing round tomorrow.

I'm also sorry to hear about the way you've been treated, its a stressful enough process without feeling like you're just a number without feelings. Its a pity that some of these clinics, while they get the results, its often at the expense of the personal touch. Its such an intimate process that both husband and wife have to go through and the results mean so much to the couple, I sometimes think this fact has been lost along the way. 

Keep talking to us (if you feel like it) and I hope the pain subsides soon  

Angela xxx


----------



## penny5

Hi everyone

Thank you so much for your messages of support, they are very touching.

Wishing you all lots of good luck and    in your quest for that magical dream.

Take care

Penny x


----------



## penny5

Hi Janey

Just to say that I am so sorry to hear about everything and my heart goes out to you and your DH.  

Please look after yourselves and maybe we will talk again on another cycle?

Take care

Penny x


----------



## Frangipan

Janey

Been thinking about you over the weekend and hope you're alright. Will be thinking of you especially tomorrow  

Angela xxxx


----------



## chloe99

hi janey - how are you today? Did you have your scan yet?  Please could I just say, unless the scan shows a complete miscarriage then can you insist they take your bloods there and then to compare the hcgs before you make any further decisions?  It is rare but possible for them to declare a pg to be over at the scan, take a lady in for the procedure to finish the mc, give her a final scan, and then discover that baby is alive and well.
Thinking of you today
xxx


----------



## Mrs CW

Oh Janey and Penny   

Janey do get an HCG done, it is very rare but some women do bleed, have all the pains etc and go on to have a pregnancy - it happened to my best friend (natural pgs) twice. 

Also, you won't particularly want to hear this now, but the signs can be good statistically for a subsequent cycle after a biochemical pregnancy  

Claire x


----------



## penny5

Hi everyone

Janey-Thinking of you today... 

Thanks to the support and friendship shared on here, I have been able to remain positive and move on quickly after my BFN just last Thursday.

We have a chat and plan scheduled for next Tuesday with a 2nd ICSI cycle planned for early July.

Hope to talk to you all soon and best wishes for whatever stage you are at.

Bye for now Penny x


----------



## Frangipan

Good for you Penny! You sound very positive and upbeat. Hope your review appointment goes well and really wishing you the best of luck for your next cycle  . Please keep posting though!

Janey-   Thinking of you


Angela xxxx


----------



## madison

Penny... I have always found it helps to get the next TX booked & sorted ASAP,    
  for your next go  

  Jayne.. I hope you are OK, Do let us know how things are going. xx

  Angela.. How are you 

  HI to anyone I have missed. 

  As for me.. Had day 7 scan today... I only have 3 follies but thats the norm for me.
  fortunately I have always had an egg in each follie of the right size so     for me
  that its the same this time too.
  Another scan on Friday & hopefully EC on Monday.

    Love Katy. xxxxx


----------



## JaneyS

Went for the pregnancy scan on Monday.  They said to have a blood test, then came back and said not to bother.  Said they couldn't see the pregnancy so "probably miscarried", but do a HPT in a couple of weeks...  They were supposed to get Doctor to call me by 1pm but as usual I was waiting until 5pm for someone to call.  Dr Faris just said sorry I'd miscarried and would I like to come in to discuss further treatment!!!!  I asked what they thought had gone wrong and what they would do different and he said he didn't know (but clearly was happy for me to give them another few grand).

I feel that the Lister just treats women on a conveyor belt system and once you've had ET they aren't interested anymore.  Since that time I've had enormous problems even getting to talk to someone (and each time have to explain everything as there is nothing in my notes), and I've been given conflicting information each time.  I am not blaming them for the loss of my babies, but I have absolutely no confidence in them at all.  Each visit was delayed as they were "running behind" and each visit was rushed - even at ET they couldn't get us out of the door quick enough - she just gave my husband a sheet of standard information whilst I was in the toilet getting dressed.

We have used every penny we have for this treatment, and to be quite honest I'm surprised at the number of women on here who just seem to be able to jump into another round of treatment.  We cannot possibly get the money together for another futile attempt, especially since they are telling us that everything went well (?!) and there are no tests that they can do to change what they would do again.

This has been a terrible experience for us both over the last week and not one that I could bear to put myself or my husband through again.  I'd like to thank all the girls on here for their help and support over the last few weeks - you've helped where the Lister didn't even try to.

I wish all those trying the best of luck and advise those wanting decent care to steer clear of the Lister.

Jane


----------



## madison

Jane,

    I am really sorry,    

    I have had treatment at the Lister, I admit I wasn't bowled over, My husband like the fact its run like a business
    because it is a business & as a business man himself he feels that is the right way to run it but I agree with you
    as far as thats concerned, yes it is a business but its peoples lives & feelings they are dealing with & I didn't feel
    that they treat you as you are a person with feelings, I agree with the conveyor belt statement too.
    They do get good results tho but unfortunately for me I had my worse outcome there out of my 3 clinics.

    Love Katy. xxx


----------



## Frangipan

Hi Janey

I'm glad you have posted, I have been thinking of you. I'm so sorry you feel your experience at the Lister has let you down but please don't feel it was futile  . Although the care wasnt good, you had excellent quality and amount of embryos, which does bode well for any possible future attempts. Its a pig that it boils down to finances- I know we certainly couldn't have afforded to go again. I think there would be 'cheaper' alternatives to somewhere like the Lister especially now you have an idea of your response but of course that would be up to you and DH. I'm so sorry this is the sad outcome for you, I was really hoping things may have been different

Katy- Hiya. Loads of luck with your next scan and EC. Lets hope this is the one for you  

Angela xxxx


----------



## chloe99

ahh janey    so sad for your news 

In case it helps when you are ready to think of another cycle, just wanted to let you know that we looked at our finances carefully, tightened our belts in every possible way we could (especially food, no clothes, no going out, no pocket money, in fact no anything ), worked out the max we can save in a month then put the whole cycle on a 9 months interest free credit card.  In fact, by the time you have to put the big payments on there you would have been saving for a couple of months as it takes a while to feel ready to cycle again and get to the point when you have to hand over the £££££.  I figured that if it works I wont mind paying for the cycle whilst I am pg, and if it fails at least I have been able to have another fresh cycle whilst I'm 9 months younger than if I'd saved up.

xx


----------



## penny5

Hi everyone

Angela-Thanks as usual for your lovely message, always a pleasure to read them and always reassuring too.

Maddison-Glad your scans seem to be going well for you.  Good luck with EC  

Janey-Sorry to hear how it ended up.  Hoping that you may be able to try again at some stage, you certainly had an excellent number of eggs and embryos.  Hope to talk with you again at some stage.

Best wishes to you all

Penny x


----------



## ladylike

Hi Janey, I've been reading your posts and I am so sorry to read about the awful experience you have had at that particular hospital, as if the process is not stressful enough without being treated like that.  

Take some time out to recover and get over the experience, I'm finding that a lot of strength is needed for this process.

Best wishes to you and your dh

ladylike xx


----------



## Mrs CW

Hi Janey I'm sorry to hear you didn't feel it was a good experience. Sadly I think the clinics that are most popular are packed out and many people feel a little like they're on a conveyor in them.  

As someone else has said, a further attempt at cycling would not be futile since you did so well up to transfer, and indeed beyond, a biochemical pregnancy shows that there is some hope for you, you got good embryos and they did start to implant.  
The problem with IVF is that it appears to be such a science but the last bit, getting them to stick, is the bit that the least is known about and although there are issues with implantation that can be managed, such as progesterone levels and killer cells, this is the part where nature to a certain extent has one over us....  I think many clinics are a little, how can I put it, less engaged once you get to test date, as even with natural pregnancies, the loss rate is high.  Mine, which was NHS though I self funded, simply said at the time I bled, ah well, all over now,very sorry, let us know when you want to come in to go again.  Not even offered a scan, so you've had better after care than me.  Although the nurses were wonderful and listened every time I cried down the phone at them, and cried happy tears with me when my cycle worked - it sounds as if some clinics have a more personal touch.  But if you looked at my clinic's stats you might not choose them, they're not well regarded particularly so they're not that busy.

If you do manage to find the emotional and financial resources to try again, I would highly recommend acupuncture, which made the difference between my 2nd biochemical cycle and my 3rd BFP.  

Big hugs to you, it is gutting when you get so close.  

Claire x


----------



## penny5

Hi everyone

I had my BFN last Thursday and my prostergone has hopefully all gone as AF finally started on Monday, and boy do I know about it!  I had lots of bloating whilst on the 2 ww and looked pregnant I had such a big bump compared to my usual flat stomach.  I still have a huge bloated stomach and can only fit into one suit and having to wear without a belt.

I have gone from drinking 2 cans of diet coke a day and little else to 1 litre of water, 1/2 to 1 litre of full fat organic milk and loads of fruit juice.  Feeling fat, uncomfortable and frumpy and most of clothes do not fit!

  Is it the prostergone and rest of drugs still in my system or fluid retention?

Any ideas or if anyone else has had this, please let me know!

Bye for now

Penny x


----------



## Mrs CW

Hi Penny
Some bloating is normal from progesterone, but I would call your clinic as what you describe sounds a little like OHSS (overstimulation)
In the meantime eat plenty of protein, drink more water than you are, milk if you can (protein and fluid hit in one).  It sounds as if your symptoms are lessening, but if you bloat up so much that it's uncomfortable, or have any shortness of breath, go to A&E.

I had it in my 2ww on my first failed cycle, not too pleasant and rather upsetting when I didn't get a BFP out of it  

Claire x


----------



## livity k

Hi Penny

Have you thought that maybe you're not that good at dealing with large amounts of milk, a lot of people can be dairy intolerant? esp if you don't normally drink it?

Hope it all settles down soon, I'm waiting for my period now and am mostly feeling grumpy not too bloated though. Having said that did not have flat stomach to start with   

good luck with your next cycle

K x


----------



## penny5

Hi

Claire-I will give them a call this morning, thanks for your quick reply!

Livity K-You will feel better when AF starts as it puts closure on it and you can plan a next cycle.  Talk soon.

Penny x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Penny hope it subsides but I put on half a stone each cycle with the milk, higher fat foods, no exercise etc pls the progesterone does make you bloated.

L x


----------



## penny5

Thanks L-I do feel fat and bloated and nothing seems to fit especially jeans which I live in at weekends but not any more!

Hello to everyone else...

Penny x


----------



## Frangipan

Penny and Janey

Haven't forgotten about you. How are you? Hope the bloating is lessening Penny, how uncomfortable. Janey, hope the physical pain is subsiding  

Livity-Sorry to see you had a BFN.  

Angela xxxxx


----------



## penny5

Hi everyone

Angela-Good to hear from you, hope you had a sunny day in Paignton with your daughter.

Still really bloated and look about 3-4 months pregnant!  Isn't the body cruel?  The Chaucer said on Friday to cut out the milk (did not drink it until cycle and may cause the bloating) and if not cleared up by Tuesday chat and plan will do a scan. Unlikely to have OHSS as very few follicles and only 1 egg collected, so a mystery?  

I will let you know the outcome on Tuesday.

Janey-Thinking of you and DH.

Keep seeing articles about IVF every time I pick up a paper or magazine, don't know if there are more articles or just that I notice them now?

Talk to you all soon

Penny x


----------



## Frangipan

Hi Penny

Good luck tomorrpw-hope they get to the bottom of whats causing the bloating, how uncomfortable for you. Are you going to discuss your next cycle too?  I take it you are going back to the same clinic for next time.
I know what you mean about IVF articles at the moment, there are alot of them and not good either  . I think you do tend to notice anything concerned with TTC as well though.
Anyway thats me. Let us know the outcome of your appointment. Thinking of you

Angela xxxx


----------



## madison

I had ovulated.. managed to get one egg tho.

      Not looking forward to tomorrow's phonecall !!

      Love Katy. xxxx


----------



## penny5

Hi

Angela-Yes, we have a chat and plan booked tomorrow and hope to start our next cycle in July.  I am having a scan re the bloating as it is not getting any better and my clothes are not fitting well.  Very strange?

Maddison-Hi katy, we only had the one egg so I completely understand how you feel waiting for the call!  You only need one though.  Fingers crossed for you.  

Night Penny x


----------



## Frangipan

Penny- How did you get on?

Janey- Don't know if you're still reading but thinking of you  

Angela xx


----------



## penny5

Hi Angela

Thanks for remembering!

I had another scan re the bloating and have a large cyst however they have said that this is not the cause of the bloating though!

I had a couple of blood tests too to check that the cyst is not producing hormones and it seems ok.  As I only produced a few follicles and 1 egg, I am going to be on a Cetrotide cycle which means that I will not DR and will start stimms on day 1 of my period with EC around day 15 so the whole cycle from start to finding out if has worked is only 4 weeks.

We have also managed to have a 2nd cycle on the NHS!  Only just as it is within 6 months of my 40th and we start the next cycle around the beginning of July...

I am going to try to be a little more relaxed and not so intense with this one and take it in my stride more, easier said than done though.

Speak to you soon

Penny x


----------



## JaneyS

Just want to thank all you girls for your support.  I won't be on this message board anymore, I just find the whole thing too upsetting. 

It's just so hard as this was our only chance (we've used all our credit cards etc to pay).  Just trying to get on with life knowing that we'll never have our own baby.

Goodbye and good luck to you all.

Janey


----------



## Frangipan

Janey

My heart really goes out to you. I'm so sorry for what you have been through and how traumatic it must have been. I really hope you and DH can find a way to finance another cycle and that this isn't the end of the road for you. I know we've never met but I hope you feel you have made some friends on here along the way and I know right now you don't feel you want to continue using the message boards but please know we are always here should you change your mind. I wish you every happiness with DH for the future,wherever that road takes you xxxx


----------



## annacameron

Janey, While I understand how ridiculously expesnive it all is, I wonder if it might be an idea to defer the decision. I say this because I have changed my own mind several times from what I immediately thought post bfns. I don't think I was ever in a normal frame of mind to make a proper decision. What I would say is that the Lister is best for people with unltd resources who live nearby. For anyone else it is not worth it and arguably a waste of money that can be put to better use on another cycle.  (I am spking as someone who knows the Lister and UCH far more intimately than I ever wanted to!)

You responded well, very well indeed for your age, you had blasts (unusual for over 40s as the mitochondria in older ivf eggs tend to run out of steam) and your numebrs I think were always good. 

This all says to me that, if anyone is to get a bfp via ivf, YOU will. However, that is an issue - does IVF really add much for over 40s with unexplained if? 

If i were you, I'd go to see Dr Ranieri at UCH and explain everything. Take all your results from the lister - ask them for a copy of your file, which you're entitled to do  - and invest the 150 pounds or so that the consultation is. Dr R will be striaght with you, to the point of negative. He will not b/s you or give you false hope. He will probably tell you you are better off doing timed s%x or injecting with gonal f to increase the number of potential eggs trying tio implant. If he tells you he can do s'thing for you re ivf, he means it and they probably can.NB,  it is only a "probably" though. What he will NOT say is some confidence inducing b/s along the lines of "it is a numbers game, keep going with ivf till it works" which is the lister approach and which i've heard so often from them. 


UCh is not a smart place like the lister, the nurses are not particualrly well spoken and you don't get extras like an expensive lunch post EC or oleaginous charm. You do get honesty though, much more time spent on you by consultants  and excellent analytical brains being applied to YOUR problems.  


PS i'd also have your free follow up with lister and raise your issues then, AFTER you have got their advice as to what next. (you don't want to spend the whole time arguing about what did or didn't happen in terms of care.) 

very best of luck

Anna


----------



## Frangipan

Penny

Hope the bloating is getting better. I'm sorry I'm not familiar with cetrotide, is that the stimming drug? Sounds like it'll be a short cycle which is great news. AND..... even better, you don't have to pay for it!!!!!!      . How good is that? Congratualtions on that one. It so seldom works out in our favour in this game as far as paying for treatment is concerned so well done you. And heres to a successful second cycle! Its a very exciting time for you, you are so right to try and stay relaxed and keep it in perspective- it is hard to do but it kept me sane. Well keep posting, and let us knpw how is going. Really really will keep it all crossed for you!

Angela xxx


----------



## penny5

Hi Angela

Thanks for keeping in touch.

I noticed that someone had started a thread re this type of cycle, I think it is on the ICSI one so I will reply, good to know someone else trying the same one.

The bloating is a mystery, stomach not too bad first thing but really bloated by the end of the evening, I must have a food intolerance all of a sudden.

Had a very relaxing day doing my baskets and pots etc, hope you have ha a lovely day with Lara and DH.

Talk soon

Penny x


----------



## penny5

Hi Angela 

 

  I started my period (first one after failed ICSI cycle) on Monday 8th June and last week had some pink CM (never had this before) and tonight have had some true red blood spotting (never had this before either).  On day 15 now and     on day 10 and on day 14.  Do you think that this could be an implantation bleed or is it usual to spot mid cycle after an IVF cycle?  I don't want to get my hopes up and be disappointed again but I don't want to have something wrong and not get it checked either.  I will ring the Chaucer tom but any thoughts would be appreciated.

Speak to you soon

Penny x


----------



## madison

Penny,

  I do the same protocol that you will be doing next   I can help with any questions.

  Brill that you are starting again so soon.

  Katy. xxx


----------



## Frangipan

Hi Penny

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you havent been on PC since yest. I'm afraid I have no idea with regards to your question and I wouldn't like to guess as it would be just that- a complete guess! I hope you've rung the clinic by now and they've been able to shed some light on it for you.  Be fantastic if it turns out that way for you wouldn't it!
Let me know what they say!

Katy- Are you OK?  

Angela xxxx


----------



## penny5

Hi Katy and Angela

Good to hear from you both...

Katy-great to know that you are around to chat to about this short cycle.  I hope you are ok, what stage are you at?

Angela-Thanks for your reply.  The Chaucer left a message to say that they will see me at my scan which is booked for the 3rd July.  I will assume just bleeding after IVF as I don't want to raise my hopes again.  Only time will tell...

Talk with  you both soon

Penny x


----------



## Frangipan

Penny

Good. Well 3rd isn't too long to wait so you'll hear more then.Good luck and keep posting

Angela xxx


----------



## madison

Penny,

  Good luck for your scan tomorrow, I am not having TX now but I have done the protocol you are on 6 times.

  Love Katy. xxx


----------



## penny5

Hi Angela and Maddison

Congratulations are in order i see, Angela!  You and DH and Lara must be over the moon!!!

Not posted for a while as I have been in between treatments.

I have just started my 2nd cycle on Thursday and on a short one, ie stimming from day 1 of period.  Assuming all goes to plan EC on 17th or 20th July.  Fingers crossed this time for more follicles and eggs!   

Maddison-Are you going to have a further cycle at all?

I hope you are both doing well and speak with you all soon.


Bye for now Penny x


----------



## Frangipan

Ah Hi Penny!!

Glad to hear from you-have been keeping an eye! Thankyou for your congratulations, we were completely amazed and shocked but its starting to sink in abit now.

Thats brilliant news about this cycle, nice and quick too. Will be keeping everything crossed for you for that one good eggy that you need. Keep posting and let us know how its going. Bit cooler this week thankfully!

Lots of love
Angela xxx


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## penny5

Hi Angela and Katy

Just a quick update re my scan today.  I only have 5 follicles of which 3 are a good size, 12, 12 and 13.

I have had accute pains in my ovaries with shooting pains down to my knees so was hoping that I had responded better this time!

I have a 2nd scan on Monday and a final one on Wednesday with a view to EC on Fri 17th or Mon 20th.  I will keep you both posted.

I hope all is well with you both.

Enjoy your weekend...

Penny x


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## Frangipan

Hi Penny

How was your scan today? Hope everything is on track for EC. Thinking of you and keeping everything crossed 

Keep in touch

Angela xxx


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## penny5

Hi Angela

So thoughtful of you to remember!  

The results are better today with my follies being bigger now than after the final scan last time.  I have 9 now with 5 possibles, 16, 14, 13, 10 and 9 for the main ones with the endo being 9.4 which is considerably higher than last time.

So, after feeling disheartenend on Friday I am feeling more hopeful today.     It is an emotional rollercoaster journey isn't it?

I am trying to get into acupuncture again this week as my lady has been away for a few days and have bought the Zita West CD however have not got round to playing it!

I hope you are OK with your pregnancy and will update you on Wednesday after my final scan.

Speak with you soon

Penny x


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## Frangipan

Great news on the follies. Hope its all systems go for either Friday or next week. Enoy your acupuncture!

Speak soon,

Angela xxx


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## penny5

Hi Angela

Sorry for not replying yesterday, DH was working on the PC all night!

Just seen your post.  I had my scan today and I have 2 x 19 and 1 x 14 which they are trying to bring through, so EC should be for Mon as originally planned. I have a 4th scan on Friday just to check all is OK still for Mon and to see how the 14 one is growing.

I'll let you know how I get on.  I am really hoping for at least 1 fertilised egg like last time but praying   that I may be lucky with even 2 or 3 as I am keen to have 2 or even 3 embies on board to give me a greater chance.

I'll keep in touch and thanks for asking after me again...

Hope all is well with Lara and your "bump".

Penny x


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## Frangipan

Fingers crossed for tomorrow but it only takes one.....

Thinking of you an sending all the luck in the world    

Angela xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Frangipan

Hi Penny

Did you have EC today? Hope everything is OK  

Lots of love

Angelaxxxx


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## penny5

Hi Angela,

So sorry have not been able to get on the net since last Friday (DH has been updating the PC at home). Thanks for remembering about EC yesterday. All went well with two good eggs collected and both fertilised today with ET booked tomorrow morning. Fingers crossed XX

Hope all is well with you and your bump - catch up soon.

Penny xx


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## Frangipan

Hi Penny

Oh that is great news! 2 great eggies, well done. Hope it all goes smoothly tomorrow and after that, its pretty much out of your hands (although the bungie jump, probably NOT a good idea  ) so try and relax. Are you still having acupuncture? Oh, I really AM wishing you all the luck in the world and am   this is your time.

Take care honey

Angela xxxxxxx


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## penny5

Thanks Angela

Yes, I had acupuncture on Sunday and will be having again after ET tomorrow.  Not managed to fit any more in as AF started early and only been on a short 2 week cycle.  Much better than 4 weeks!

Will keep you posted...

Night, Penny x


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## penny5

Hi Angela

Just a quick post as supposed to be in bed resting/sleeping!

ET went well, with 2 embies on board!  Just pray and hope    that they find a spot to settle in!

Talk soon

Penny x


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## livity k

Good luck Penny have been following your journey am really    that this is your time, 

keep relaxed and think sticky thoughts.

lots of love

K x


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## Frangipan

Hi Penny

Well done and will keep everything crossed for you!    

Livity- good to hear from you! Loads of luck to you 2 with your lovely frosties!    

Angela xxx


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## penny5

Hi

LivityK-Good to hear from you again!  Have you started another cycle yet with your frosties? Good luck to you for whatever stage you are at.  I am doing something different this time!  I have called one of them sun and one of them shine and am talking to them both daily, worth a try!  Or am I am going  ?

Angela-On the 2ww again.  Taking it in my stride this time and not posting on 2ww threads or monthly cycle threads as trying not to get involved with symptoms etc from others as this makes you feel that yours are different and sets you into a panic mode!  I an back at work on Monday as run out of holiday, so at least it will go quicker this time.

Off to the post office now, catch you both soon...

Penny x


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## livity k

Hi Penny and Angela, 
thanks for messges, I started AF yesterday so I think it is now about 6 weeks till frozen transfer, start down regging on day 21 of this cycle. 

I'm thinking of having accupuncture over the next weeks leading up to transfer, as also want to have different elements. 

K x


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## Frangipan

Penny

Good idea about not reading everyone elses' symptoms! Easy to think you're coming up short! If you do 'accidentally'   have a sneaky peek, dont forget everybody is different. I didn't experience anything! I also went to work on my 2ww and I honestly think it was a good thing for me as it kept my (very small!) mind occupied. 

Livity-Not long to go! Good for you trying acupuncture. Think it really helped me and if nothing else, you feel  like you're doing something useful. Take care and keep posting, both of you. Stay positive  

Angela xx


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## Angel10

Hi  

I hope you dont mind me butting in - and if im absolutely honest im not quite sure where im meant to be   thing is im not cycling at the moment, recently moved clinics and have to loose weight before our next run at icsi - i was 40 in feb' this year and im really scared about the time running away with me - its 2years since we did our first cycle where i ended up in hospital for severe ohss and have taken along time to recover mentally from that - but now im scared i have left it to late to cycle again - the clinic we are going to are happy to treat us but really i need to know if im doing the right thing! I dont expect you to give me the answer but may be a little hope that we may get our dream at this stage in life 

Hope this makes sense  
Angel


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## penny5

Hi Angel 10

It' s not too late to try again...

I was 40 in March and had my first cycle April/May and am on my 2ww on my 2nd cycle.  I have the opposite problem to you, I do not produce enough follies/eggs!

The new clinic will use the results of your first cycle to learn from moving forward with your next cycle and will probably put you on a lower doseage of drugs next time.  It is always difficult to anticipate how an individual is going to respond and the 1st cycle is often a learning curve for the next one.

Good luck and this is a great thread if you want any support from anyone...

Love Penny


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## Angel10

Hi Penny - thank you for your lovely welcome and reasurance  

How are you doing in your 2ww? we have done fet and i remember how it nearly drove me mad.......do you have long until you test? wishing you all the love and luck


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## penny5

Hi Angel 10

Thanks for your kind words, yes it is such a long time when 2 weeks usually fly by!

I test 5th August, a week on Wednesday so nearly half way through. Back to work this morning, so this week should go quickly.

Keep in touch...

Penny x


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## madison

Good luck Penny xx


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## penny5

Hi Maddison

Thanks!

I hope you saw my posting at the weekend on another thread? Good to hear from you.

Not sure how this is going as apart from tummy pains from the prostegerone I do not seem to have any symptoms again apart from an acute sharp pain on Sunday (day 6).

Just trying to keep positive and realistic.  I admire you trying so many times...

Take care

Penny x


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## Frangipan

Penny

How ya doin? Sorry I haven't been on for a while-long story but changed my email address on here and then couldn't activate the email response needed to post  .Anyway have been thinking of you and cant believe its almost test time so sending loads of          your way  

Lots of love

Angela xxx


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## penny5

Hi Angela

Almost there, just tomorrow and then at least I will know one way or another on Wednesday.

Not really had any symptoms different to last time ( except very bad headaches each day since last Monday and back ache) so was not feeling positive, however have felt generally yuk today with nausea on and off all day which has subsided when I have eaten.  So wondering if it may be good news but then I think it probably isn't!  It's like a yo yo effect isn't it?

Been quicker being back at work for the 2nd week.

Have action plan ready if not good news on Wednesday.  Fingers crossed and praying for good news.

Thanks for asking and I hope all is well with you and that your bump is growing nicely...

Best wishes

Penny x


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## madison

Penny,

                  
      For Wednesday, 

      Katy. xxxxx


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## Frangipan

Hi Penny

Its impossible not to analyse symptoms isnt it-no matter how hard we try not to! Well, no sign of AF yet? Thats a good sign- but not long to wait to find out. Glad you've got a plan B up your sleeve but hey, you're NOT going to need it! PMA,PMA,PMA,PMA!!!!

Lots of luck and love

Angela xxxx


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## penny5

Hi Maddison and Angela

It is so touching that you have both remembered about my day tomorrow...thank you.

Partly looking forward to it but partly really nervous, you both know exactly what a mixed bag of emotions you feel!

At least I will know at last.  Strange, you wish your 2 weeks away so fast and then when the day finally arrives almost wish it hadn't!

I will post at some stage tomorrow.

Night

Penny x


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## penny5

Hi Angela & Maddison

Well it's onto cycle 3 next...

Talk again soon and thanks for your support.

Love Penny x


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## Angel10

Penny -


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## penny5

Thanks Angel...

Penny x


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## Frangipan

Oh Penny  

        

So, so sorry

Angela xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## madison

Penny,

    I am so sorry.      

    Love Katy. xxxx


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## penny5

Hi Angela and Madison

Just to say thanks for your kind words.

We have a consultation this Saturday at the Zita West Clinic and are waiting for a date from the ARGC for an initial consultation, so not hanging around!

Talk soon

Love Penny x


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## Frangipan

Good for you Penny. Love Zita's books, what she says is so sensible and ARGC, well their results speak for themselves. Well third time lucky for you. You deserve it. Keep posting though, you WILL be posting good news and I want to be right here to share your joy!

Lots of love

Angela xxxx


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## madison

Penny.....

    I agree with everything Angela said. 

    You go girl  

    Love Katy. xxxx


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## livity k

Penny, really sorry to hear your news, Hope you are ok and coping, 
lots of love  

K x


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## penny5

Hi K

Thanks...

Good luck with  your cycle this month.

Love Penny


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## penny5

Hi everyone

LivityK-So sorry to read that you have just had a BFN yesterday.  My heart goes out to you and your DH and I am sending a hug to you.  

Angela-I hope that you and your baby are both well and that you are having a good pregnancy and blooming!

Maddison-I hope you are well.

Angel-Hi, how are things?

I have not posted on here for ages, as nothing going on and in between cycles which is so frustrating as I am feeling panicky that it is never going to happen, at least when you have a cycle it gives you hope!

Finally got a date for the ARGC, 4th November.  They are booking 2 months in advance which seems a long wait when you are having to pay.  This will be our first paid cycle, so is going to be painful financially if it doesn't work. DH and myself are attending a workshop next 2 weekends held by DCN in London, to start researching the complex world of donor eggs, which will be our plan if IVF does not work with my own eggs.

My job has been made redundant since I last posted too, so a difficult year all in all!  A blessing in disguise though, as it was so difficult getting time off with the hospital appointments and going up to the ARGC which test for bloods daily for 2 weeks would have been a nightmare. I have joined our business on a full time basis now (been involved evenings and weekends only previously), and have 100% flexibility re hospital appointments etc, so hopefully this will eliminate alot of the pressure.

Still trying naturally in between cycles but no joy, impending period this weekend.  Always depressing and then after 1st day, you lift your spirits and think onwards and upwards to next fresh chance of trying.

Sorry for the long post, been ok but all of a sudden finding it very difficult as on the run up to 41 and feel time is definitely running out now. Saw a Mum put her hand out to her young Daughter in Tesco the other day and it really hit me that I may never have the pleasure of my own child's hand in mine. It's funny how the most every day functions for millions of other people can just a strike an emotional cord with you when you least expect, isn't it?  I can't believe I am going to have yet another Christmas with no children or being pregnant!

Sorry, just on a real downer with it at the moment.  Hopefully when I next post, I will be more positive.  I think it is because my last cycle was in July and I have had 2 months with nothing happening and feel out of control with it all.

Anyway enough of my rambling, my best wishes to you all and look forward to hearing how you all are...

Bye for now

Penny x


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## penny5

Hi everyone

Just a quick update since my last post...

I managed to get a cancellation at the ARGC for this Friday afternoon, so it saves waiting until November!  I feel excited again for the first time in ages, as it gives you hope when something is happening.

I hope you are all ok, very quiet on this thread at the moment.

Angela-how's the baby?  I read on another thread that you are having a boy!

Look forward to hearing from you all...

Bye for now

Penny x


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## livity k

Hi Penny, 

Good to hear you are moving forwards and have the cancellation- 
thanks for your kind message- we were gutted but have 3 more frosties so we're going again in november, I'm having some immune tests and they are upping the clexane level I'm on so fingers crossed. I'm also having an endometrial biopsy on day 20 of this cycle- apparently it helps stimlulate good implantation sites on next cycle. The nurse told me today it is one of the most painful procedures they do- so to dose up well before- can't say I'm looking forward to it but if it helps...

good luck with everything

K x


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## madison

LOads of luck for your treatment Penny, Our clinic has a 7 month waiting list at the Moment & I am private so Nov was good. Glad you got
  a cancelation tho. So soon starting too. xxx
  
  Livity, I hope your next go is the one. xxx


  Katy. xxxxx


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