# Newbie info on going abroad



## atticus

Hello everyone..
Not used a chat room or message board before.
Am going to BCN for IVF soon.
any advice..?
thankyou


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## Fidget

Firstly Welcome atticus and I hope you enjoy using the resources here 

I cant help you afraid but the girls here are great and I am sure they will be able to give you lots of advice, there is a general chat thread that they all 'chat' on and I am sure they will make you feel welcome too try looking here

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,57266.0.html

Good luck 
Debs
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## atticus

thanks debs - just getting the hang of the message boards etc..Like being the new kid at school..
xxx


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## safarigirl

Hi Atticus
welcome to the abroadies thread - come and join us on the general thread and you will find out lots of information, and met some lovely people.....
There is a search key - if you look at the top of your screen - fourth button on your left - if you type in your clinics name you will find loads of info.  I would suggest taking some time to read the many messages/info on this thread - most new people (myself included when i came her first) ask the same questions, and there is lots of good advice and information.  
The general thread is where we chat on a daily basis and is a good place for a laugh, a cry, a vent.  we also keep up to date on who is where and what is happening.  Its a wonderful board, and I am so glad to have met so many wonderful women on this thread - i am sure you will find the support, advice and humour as valuable as i have!
HOping you have a wonderful (and as we like to say here) very short stay with us....


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## Grumpygirl

Hi Atticus
Just a quick hello to say welcome and may your stay be a short one!
Best of luck
Gigglygirl
xx


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## atticus

Hey SAFARI GIRL

Thanks very much for that. i have checked out the search function as didn't know it existed!!(DER..! am such a luddite with computers)
Am feeling much better to have found you all!Didn't know there were so many peolpe out there going thru the same things..

Hey - which is th emain thread - is that the general IVF one??
also, whats and IM - is that a message - so yu reply to someone as a message - thought of putting my name on the growing list of abroadies but wasn't sure how to ( DER..! again..!)

Am starting Decapeptyl on thurs - so thought of joining the cycle buddies?? but again a bit unsure .Not sure of side effects but used the search function and as you say everyone has the same initial fears and queries..

xxxxxxxxxxthanks again

Hi GIGGLYGIRL

thanks for making me welcome. Hope everything goes Ok for you too. Its all a big rollercoaster..

xxxxxxxxxxAtti


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## safarigirl

I should have said Abroadies Chat Part 26 (I think thats the figure we're on now) - come and say hello on there (thats what i meant by general thread....)
dont worry, you'll learn as you go along - we all did


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## earthe kitt

'Cor Safarigirl - where is you at?

It's part 36 - you bin time travelling?

Let me in on the secret, I want to be 26 again  

Welcome atticus - It's the abroadies bit usually in the top half of the main going abroad for treatment page - should be just below this thread

Jo  XX


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## safarigirl

Jo - my new age is going to be the age of my donor!!!!!!

Atticus sorry for all the confusion, hope you find the thread!


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## Fidget

@ you two!!

Atticus you only have to click the link I put in at the top and it will take you to the general chat thread

Debs
xx


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## marytomo

Hello everyone, i am new to this site and your help and advice would be very much appreciated.I have bn made aware of this site by my friend Becca who i know through the Nurture website where i am presently a patient.I have bn through 2 cycles of IVF treatment using donor eggs as unfortunately i have endometriosis plus POF.Both of my cycles have resulted in BFNs  and therefore am back on the waiting list.As a result of my last review with my consultant he suggested that i should consider using a Spanish clinic, apart from the fact that there is no waiting list, i can b guaranteed good quality eggs which ,as someone in my position waiting for a kind lady to come forward is a godsend (i am 34 at present).Myself and my DH have had feedback from TWO clinics the IM in Barcelona and Ceram in Marbella.To be honest i dont know where to begin, obviously there is a MASSIVE price difference and like any couple in my position dont have an endless pot of money! but,is it worth paying the xtra at the IM
Any one that can offer advice and or experience at either clinc,i would love to hear from thankyou and lots of love to you all xxxxxxxxxx


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## alison 5

Hi Mary, sorry to read of your 2 BFN, it is such a tough road this IVF route,
your consultant is probably right regarding looking down the donor route abroad
due to the waiting list in the UK.
Regarding which clinic to go to, i think you need to spend a couple of 
evenings reading thru all the various posts and threads from all the different
clinics.
I am at IM my first attempt back in Nov unfortunately was a negative but
am hoping to return Feb/March for another attempt.
I think you will find after reading the posts all the clinics are very good,
i think the reason for IM being that bit more expensive is that they dont
seem to have a waiting list for donors.
One of the girls on here went to Eugin in Barcelona, which was a lot cheaper
than IM and she seem very pleased, i did email them and they said regarding
waiting time it would be no longer than 3-4mths.
Just remember what ever decision you make will be the right one.
Im sure all the girls on here will help if you have any questions.
take care Alison 5
I do hope


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## marytomo

Hello Alison, thankyou sooooooooo much for your reply.I am sorry too your first try resulted in a BFN.If in not being too nosey can i ask why you decided on the IM and wud u b able to give your honest opinion in them?? you see this is the one i am preferring at present however, my dh is wondering why apart from no waiting list is there such a price difference did u have eggs to freeze Alison?? and im asuming you too used donor eggs (see, told u i was nosey hope u dont mind too much) i have also bn told that CERAM is also based on an egg share scheme but IM isnt
Thanx again xxxxxxxxxx


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## Martha Moo

hiya Mary

welcome to the board and to Fertility Friends 

I am not going abroad for tx (yet but considering!)

I just wanted to welcome you to the board and leave a few links which u may find helpful 

The abroadies

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=76279.285

IM cycle buddies

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=77832.180

and also here is a link to the website to ceram

www.ceram.es

i do hope that you find some of these helpful

Best wishes on your journey

Emxx


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## alanelaine

Marytomo,

There are a few threads asking similar questions so you could try the search function or scan older threads such as this one:

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=74031.msg1002623#msg1002623

We have said this previously:

Start with looking at clinic reviews

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=148.0

look at Spanish link

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=120.0

Spain is CERAM, IVI, IM; Eastern Europe is Altra Vita (Moscow), Invimed (Warsaw), Isida (Kiev)Fertimed (Czech Republic); southern europe is Pedios (Cyprus), Chania (Greece) but there are others in South Africa, USA and elsewhere.

Costs (outrageous attempt to summarise coming up) CERAM, Altra Vita, Pedios, Chania are all about 5,000 Euros; Invimed, Isida, Fertimed are a bit cheaper; IVI and IM are about twice the cost of CERAM but have no real waiting list (CERAM is the only clinic with a big waiting list but RH+ is good news).

Success rates depend on what the clinics publish Live Births or Clinical Pregnancy. CERAM share eggs (you get half the eggs collected) so their rates are marginally lower than those who don't. Egg sharing rates are in the low 50%ages those that don't share are around 60%. But it is a ballpark.

UK rates with your own eggs will be around 25%.

Diagnostics are most thorough at Altra Vita (some like this some find the tests a pain).

Think also about flights and accommodation from where you live but don't decide not to go to your preferred clinic because it is 3.5 hours (Moscow, say) and Spain is only 2.5 hours.

OK, I'm nearly back to where I was.

If you are starting IVF go for the initial consultation to your selected clinic (2 days) transfer should mean 8-10 days overseas. You will need to get Ultrasonic scans done here before you go and possible when you get back but the girls will tell you who is near you and who is best.

Have a look at the Abroadies thread for CERAM girls, see the other clinic threads to get an idea of what their patients think.

A&E


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## marytomo

Hiya girls just wanted to say thankyou for all your help and what a complete minefield.I have contacted IM today to ask about their refund policy and OH MY LORD!!!!!! i knew it wud b expensive but over twenty thousand pounds, i mean we have spent around ten thousand up to now.Yes it is a good i
idea but where on earth do normal folk find that kind of money from? i cud do with winning the lottery!!!!
Catch u laterxxxxxxxx


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## Mikeygirl

Hi Marytomo,

Glad you found this board and the other ladies have pointed you to the vaious threads e.g. IM Cycle buddies, Ceram etc

We have just started our first double donation (eggs and sperm) at IM so I thought I would just send a quick reply and say hi. I'm 32 and have had a history of tx here in the UK. Although I would have preferred to stay with Essex Fertility Centre, the waiting list for egg donors as you know is just too long, especially after all the tx we have already had. Our consultant here recommended IM as he had experience of supporting several women who had been there and got BFP's.

The reason we chose it was because of our consultants opinion, their success rates but also recommendations from many women on FF, the fact that there is no waiting list for donors and the fact that they do not egg-share. We have been pleased with their communication from the initial request for information email I sent to them via their website.

We had our initial consulation after a few weeks from our first contact and again were very impressed with the clinic and the nursing staff, especially Dr Redondo who we had our consultation with. I know other ladies on the IM thread have found Dr Olivares who is the head of the clinic extremely professional and friendly also. I had some concerns about the way that donors might potentially have been 'treated' and so for me it was reassuring to hear IM say that they do not overstimulate them i.e. they aim for 7-9 eggs max. Also their counselling process is thorough and they provide you with a backup donor so if your main donor doesn't produce enough or very poor quality eggs then there is much less risk of the treatment being cancelled as they just go with the backup who will have been started a few days after the main one.

We were told we could start as soon as AF arrived, however we were going to Australia for a month so have actually just started this month. 

My dh and I decided not to do the refund programme as although we have said we will do 3 fresh tx, hopefully we won't need to and therefore we wouldn't want ever to regret paying all that money up front. There are benefits to the scheme if you can afford to do that e.g. you get all your FET's included and of course if you are unsuccessful after 3 fresh tries (to a pregnancy up to 13 weeks) then you get the refund. It just wasn't for us.

You should def take some time to read through some of the threads, like IM cycle buddies and the clinic reviews but my own personal view is that IM are very professional. 

Best of luck in your decision-making, as Alison says, whatever you decide it will be right for you and your dh.

Mikeygirl xxx


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## marytomo

Hi Mikeygirl thanx for your reply hunny.Coming on this website has bn like a godsend to me, i usually go on theNurture web (my hospital) and the girls on there are also fab.
I think its good that u know which path ur on we are still trying to decide which clinic to use to b honest.The IM is definately my fave however,there is such a massive difference in price and with us already spending a lot on the two previous treatments we have got to b very careful.My hubbie wants to get a few more ideas b4 we make any decision plus i need to get myself sorted a bit first so a i am in the best health possible b4 commencing any more treatment.I had a look into the refund programme and although i think it is a fantasic idea we just dont have that sort of money! we used to but we used most of it on the previous treatments, well b4 i knew we had the option of going abroad.
The waiting list for donors is definately way to long in this country im not to sure if it will ever b any different but we dont have that sort of time to wait around.
I have an appt with my consultant for some other tests (pof) on the 26th of this month and im going to ask his honest opinion on which clinic he thinks is best and hopefully he will be as honest as yours was, after this we will make our decision.Surely though no waiting time,being able to keep all the eggs and not having to share and having a standby must sway our decision!!!!! its just that im wondering why, such a massive price difference compared to say..... ceram.Thanx again, hope to hear from u soon and please let me know how ur tx goes xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## marytomo

Oh girls i forgot to ask how do you put all of your details at the bottom? sorry i havnt got to grips with all the technology as yet!xxxxxx


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## radnorgirl

Mary

To write up your signature you have to click on the profile button on the top of the page. You will then see a list on the left hand side of the page called forum profile. Youwant to clinic on modify profile (I think that is what it is called - it is about the second one down). You then enter the details in the section marked signature.

love

Helen
xxx


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## marytomo

Hi girls i was just wondering if anyone cud offer any advice?
B4 i begin pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease dont think me ungrateful bcuz i really am not but yesterday i recieved a call from my clinic in Notts to say they have a donor available (yipppppppeeeeeee!) i thought initially however, i have not bn able to say yes or no either way until i have had my consultant appt on the 26th of Jan due to the fact that i need more tests plus a bone scan due to the POF.The other aspect is i have bn through two failed cycles recently and there is a big question mark as to whether the quality of the eggs i recieved were the reason for the tx not working.Dont get me wrong i am extremely grateful to the lady who kindly donated her eggs but surely if the quality is always going to b an issue with egg sharing it is better to go abroad and ensure the eggs will b of far better quality?
What i wud like to ask is, has anyone ever bn in a similar position? im very aware that someone in my position cannot afford to turn down the offer of eggs willy nilly but the cost, and uncertainty of egg quality from a donor who already needs IVF herself must surely come into consideration?? i really need some advice girls, many thanx xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Mikeygirl

Hi Marytomo,
I'm not sure I can give you any firm answers but I thought it's worth pointing out that not all egg-sharers will need IVF due to problems with their eggs - very often, their eggs are excellent and they need IVF because of the need for donor sperm or blocked tubes. I have friends who have donor egg-shared and given great eggs. Several have become pregnant here in the UK after offering half of their eggs to a recipient. Soooo my point is an obvious one in that each donor is different - you could get a donor abroad whose eggs are not great quality and this donor in the UK may have great eggs..sadly you can't know this in advance 
If it was me I would ask the clinic whether you could give them a decision in the next week after your consultants appt which would give you time to get more information from them...
Tricky eh'..amazing they have come up with three donors tho'!!
Hope someone else will come along soon to offer more advice!
Love Mikeygirl x


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## safarigirl

Hi MArytomo - jsut wanted to welcome you to the thread.  Anyone of the advice i would have given you has already been summed up - especially alanelaine who gives you really solid advice.  As the others have said take some time to read through old posts, use the search key and will find that loads of people have asked these questions (which clinic, spain, russia, refund programme etc) and it will really help you to start making up your mind.  It feels like alot in the beginning, but after a week or two you will find that things become clearer in your mind (I think we all started out feeling overwhelmed - i did, and then suddenly you start making sense of what clinic offers what, your own personal choice) and your clinic choice becomes easier.  This is how i made my decision, deciding what i wanted and then finding a clinic that suited that.  Most of the clinics mentioned here though are all good, and i am sure you will find success at whichever one you choice, like i said often its just personal e.g. location, airport to fly to, etc ....
Goodluck with your decision regarding your uk donor ... i would ask questions regarding your donor,age, proven, and also see if you are happy with the characteristics, always be positive that it would work and chose on that basis.

Anyway wishing you lots of luck wiht your decision, come and post on the general abroadies thread, whether you stay in uk or go abroad should you want any further support etc.


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## marytomo

Thanx Mikeygirl and Safari girl for ur help and advice.Just to let you know i rang my clinic and spoke to one of the nurses who has said the reason for the donor needing IVF is due to a mechanical problem ie.blocked tubes.She has proven fertility and has achieved a pregnancy.Due to this they think she wud b a good donor for me.They agree that i shud see my consultant first (who also happens to b my fertility consultant) and see what kind of p
protocol he wants me to follow, and also see what my blood results show  hopefully i can make a decision after next Friday 
Thanx again and i hope you r both keeping well xxxxxxx p.s if u know anything about blocked tubes id like to find out


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## onelasttime

Hi everyone,

What a relief to find this site after a 'challenging' week. I'm 40, husband 39, trying to conceive for 18 months. Went straight to private IVF post wedding at the end of last year to 'speed things up' (neither of us had tried in previous relationships for any amount of reasons). ICSI treatment booked in UK for May 07, however results are staggeringly low (as I say, I'm new to all this) at 10% (poor sperm quality plus my age). 

So, we're thinking we take the money put aside for the UK IVF and switch to abroad - where we can afford more tries with my eggs (1 fresh plus 1 or 2 frozen), then switch to donor egg program. It sounds like we're doing the right thing...would you experience people agree? Any suggestions/recommendations? I'm at the very beginning of the research process, but have put together a spreadsheet with costs, success rates, wait times, overall cost for multiple attempts, flight costs, hotel expenses, and factored in the ratings I've found you ladies giving of the various centres on this site. Still scary though, going abroad....


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## bluebell

Hello sj66 and welcome !

So pleased you managed to find FF as it is brilliant for people in our situation and so supportive.  Personally I would have been lost wthout the support from this site, both emotionally and in terms of factual info.

I am sure you are doing the right thing, especially if it feels right to you.  Certainly if you do go down the donor road, then the waiting lists in the UK are so long (where I live 5 years !!, that it is really necessary to go abroad if, like most of us on here, you ain't a spring chicken.

I just wanted to check though .. are you sure you can't get a free IVF attempt in the UK with your own eggs ?  Where I live in Scotland you can have any amount of free 'goes', but there is a 2 year waiting list.  Are you in England.  I think it is more of a post code lottery there (am I right ladies ?) but I think that you can have 1 free attampt pretty much everywhere and depending on where you are the waiting lists aren't always horrendous.  I have just been for a scan in Leicester and they said they have short waiting lists.

Good luck and looking forward to getting to know you better !  You will see on the list of topics that a clinic comparison database will sonn be set up on here.  This will hopefully help you decide if it is up and running on time.

Bluebell xx


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## onelasttime

Thanks Bluebell. You're right - I am in England, and of the clinics I've spoken to we're ruled out of 1 free go because of my age. For donor eggs it's 5 years where we live also - so that's a no then! 

Thanks for the info on the clinic comparison - I was wondering if there was a European League Table of fertility clinics?? But I guess this a naive/daft question!!? I can see the results for each transfer on most clinics' websites, but when some of them make statements such as '95% success after 4 attempts' this is naturally very tempting, but not all of them carry this information. 

So, we're currently weighing up (and I'm sure most of you have been in this position at the start!) Spain - good results - great in IM's case, established, familiar, cheap flights, sunny, not too daunting a prospect but higher cost - especially in IM's case, with the less familiary territory of Kiev, Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and Russia - also good results but unfamiliar places, less accessible with flights, a more daunting prospect but really really low prices. Help! 

I suppose you get over this feeling once you've made your first trip.....or maybe not! I tell you what, in some ways I'm pleased I'm older - I'm not sure I would have had the determination and confidence to take this on in my 20s or early 30s! Every cloud has a silver lining....


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## alanelaine

My advice would be to pick the clinic you like the best and think would be most compatible with your selections and then go for the first consultation even if you have had a UK consult.  This will give you a better feel of the place and will update your tests, etc.

If you go and decide you didn't like the clinic/staff/location you can always go somewhere else.

FYI 95% success after three attempts is a statistical probability from a general success rate of 60% (this is using donor eggs from young, selected donors).  Let me try to explain:Group of 100 women

1st try : 60 get pregnant, 40 need another go;
2nd try : 24 get pregnant, 16 need another go;
3rd try : 9 get pregnant, 7 lose out completely.

From the sample group 93% are successful (OK it's not quite 95%  but you get the idea)

However, these are statistical probabilities - its 60% this time, 60% next time and 60% the time after that  although it would be just your bad luck to get three failures in a row.

Getting your money back if it fails could be attractive.


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## onelasttime

Thanks for the info - this is all so useful. Amazing, in fact. We're going to take a couple of weeks to mull over the alternatives and perhaps consult others on this site for impressions of our short list. I think we'll take your advice though and go out to wherever we choose for the first consultation. 

Thanks for the very good explanation of the statistics, which has verified my decision not to go ahead with the UK treatment. With my own eggs = 10% chance per attempt at 40 yrs = 27% chance after 3 attempts in the UK. The EU sites all seem to have a far higher success rate with own eggs. I've been quoted 27-30% from some clinics per transfer and even 40% (seems high) from 1. Which means that a 40 year old would have a 66% chance using own eggs abroad after 3 attempts (at a 30% success rate).

Or is that my natural optimism manipulating the stats....?


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## alanelaine

Your statistics are spot on.

Feel free to ask anything you wish about our experiences (CERAM/Altra Vita) we're always glad to pass on whatever we've learned.

A&E


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## lilli

Hi Everyone,

I'm new here, after having a tough past few months doing IVF [Ist time oct 06 poor response converted to IUI. 2nd go jan o7 short course 11 eggs collected none fertilised] we're off to Spain for donor eggs.

Feeling really excited as we've got our Ist appointment on Monday at IM Barcelona but got a few concerns which probably you all have had, like have we chosen the right clinic etc etc.

Anyway hoping to get to know you all better

Lilli


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## Martha Moo

Hiya Lilli

Welcome to the abroadies and to Fertility Friends 

Sorry to hear of your ivf failing

I just wanted to welcome you and leave a couple of links

First of all

one for the IM cycle buddies

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=82615.msg1157656;boardseen#new

and also one for the Abroadies chat

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=81479.315

If you need any help in finding your way around the site
Just shout up

Wishing u lots of luck for ur appt and also your impending treatment

Emxx


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## Ruby_Tuesday

Hi Lilli, 

Welcome to the Board.  I am relatively new myself but have found the boards a fantastic support and source of information.  Everyone is really helpful and ready to share their experiences to help others. 

I am about to have DE tx at Reprofit in the Czech republic - lots of positive info on this place despite it being relatively new.  Be lovely to have you "pop" in to meet us on the Reprofit thread.

Best of luck to you and wish for your dreams to come true! 

Warm Wishes,

Rubyxxx


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## coconutkym

i have just had donor eggs transferrd at Institute marques in barcelona. they are the most expensive it seems, but the advantages are
1. easy to fly there from lots of diff airports
2. easy to get around city on public transport
3. lots of hotels
4. good weather and cheap to eat out 
5, lots of english spoken
6 IM are good at ringing yu and emailing you
7. they have lots and lots of donors of all types, they boast there is no waiting list
8. they asign a donor and a back up donor, shadowing 1st a little later in process, so if 1st drps out or fails to respond, they can bring the backup in for tx just a few dats later, see mikey girls story on IM thread.


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## daisyg

Hi sj66,

Research has shown that the best chance with ivf for over 40s is to put back as many embryos as possible - at least 5 if possible. The best and most successful clinics in the world are in the US (CCRM and Cornell). CCRM e.g. has a 47.7% pregnancy rate for age 38-40. Also, are the stats. you quote for live birth or just pregnancy rates? This is important as you want a baby not just a pregnancy.

The key criteria in choosing any clinic are their laboratory, embryologists and most important, their statistics for live birth in your age group. It is a false economy to just go for the most cost effective. It is no good saving up your money for many cycles at an inferior clinic. Why not go to the best? Is there any reason for example why you could not investigate ARGC?

Sorry, I have just noticed you haven't cycled yet? Where are you cycling? Are you at a good clinic with very high stats. for your age and diagnosis? You also don't yet know how you will respond to a cycle and whether in fact you will have any embryos to freeze for example. This may mean having several fresh cycles etc. etc.

The other factor is to have as many investigations as possible to level your playing field. e.g. uterine checks, sperm assays, checks for thrombophilas, karotyping etc. etc. Having suffered 4 miscarriages over 40 before a clotting problems was identified means I am very keen on eliminating as much as poss. before committing time and money to a cycle.

It of course depends on many factors. How you respond to meds., DH sperm etc etc. The IVI clinics in Spain are also very good (esp. Valencia which is one of the best in Europe), but I would again check out their stats. at your age with own eggs.

As you know, statistics are not an exact science. So much depends on how you respond as an individual. What is your FSH and E2? Have you achieved a pregnancy at all? Husband's sperm etc etc.

Sorry to go on, but it is an area I have been involved in during my own struggle to have a baby through ivf. Starting ivf at 44 - I got pregnant on all 3 of my ivfs with own eggs at age 44 - 44.5 at 2 London clinics and at Cornell in the US. Miscarried all due to clotting factor/auto immune and poss. age. This is why the live birth rate is so important. I was contributing to their good stats. by getting pg but I did not have a baby from any of these cycles. I also miscarried my first donor egg cycle.

I wish you the very best of luck.

Daisy
xxx

Here is some more info. from ESHRE (European Society of Human Reproduction and Embryology)

http://www.eshre.com/file.asp?filetype=doc/04/008/eim_2002.pdf

http://www.eshre.com/emc.asp?pageId=496

Plus link to CCRM and Cornell in the US

http://www.colocrm.com/successrates.htm

http://www.ivf.org/

and IVI Valencia

http://www.ivi.es/eng/centros/valencia.htm

/links


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## onelasttime

Hi Daisy,
  
Thanks for your advice. You're right - we haven't done a cycle yet. If I can explain why I've jumped straight into IVF abroad when we haven't even done a cycle, it goes like this...My husband and I started what I would call trying 'properly' about 12 months ago. Like many others my age I (naively) didn't even consider that we would have problems conceiving. I had a miscarriage 10 years ago with a former partner, my husband has also achieved a pregnancy with a former partner. About 6 months into trying I went to speak to my GP who advised that for anyone my age ttc after 6 months there is no investigation into possible causes - basically 'you are pushed down the IVF route'. I panicked and contacted all clinics within a 100 mile radius of my home in Sept 06, then panicked more when I realised what the waiting lists were like. I finally got a cancellation appointment privately with my local clinic, where we were told our chances were 'reasonable' and booked for our first cycle in May 07. We were still naively optimistic at this point (October 06) that nature would take its course before May. At the beginning of Feb 07 we had an appointment with the clinic to discuss the results of my partner's semen analysis where we were advised that his analysis had poor morphology and recommended ICSI. It was at this meeting that we were advised of the clinic success rates at 40 (10%). I enquired about donor eggs, but unfortunately the waiting list is 5 years at our local clinic, by which time I'd be too old for the treatment.

Panic seriously rising by now, and you're right, with no in depth tests/exploration and no cycles completed, we started to consider IVF abroad. We are prepared to try with my eggs first of all - my FSH level at day 5 is 6.8, and E2 is normal (129?) and then progress to donor eggs if we have no success. 

I completely understand your points about US clinics, but cost is unfortunately a factor for us and these clinics costs look to exceed $20,000 for each attempt. I consider us to be lucky in that we at least have access to a limited amount of money to try to conceive, but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable spending the lion's share of it on one 'go' with my eggs - even if the chances of success are 47-50%. That would leave us with nothing for further attempts/donor eggs if we are unsuccessful.

It's really difficult to know what to do for the best, and largely, I guess you make your choices based on your budget, your personal circumstances and  even your buying behaviour (I'm definitely your archetypal 'risk taker/non insurance buyer', so more inclined to take a punt on beating statistics). You've definitely made me think, though - and I'll be taking another look at the Spanish sites this week...before 'decision time'.

Thank you - and congratulations on your twins!

xx


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## Laddie

Hello,  I'm looking for information on Altra Vita and Isida.  I'm in the US and the stats on Altra Vita and the $ sound great.  Does anyone have a contact at Altra Vita?  I can't seem to get a reply from the email address on the web site.
Thanks,


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## daisyg

Hi Laddie,

You might like to post this question on a new thread so that patients from both clinics can see it.  Alternatively, there are thread already started on this board for both clinics so I would post there in order to be noticed better.

Daisy
x


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## roze

Having ' done' both Spain and the Ukraine, I would have no hesitation in recommending either.  

I did also find the prospect of Eastern Europe daunting initially but they are a lot cheaper than Spain 9 1/3 of cost of the IVI Group!)  and have great results.  Being cheap is to do with the lower cost of living and exchange rates, not necessarily indicative of lower quality service. Spain was becoming too expensive for us and a change was as good as a rest - the Ukraine was unknown but having been there its certainly more user friendly than you would think.  Also they transfer more embryos- I was aware of the issues and controversy over multiple embryo transfer but also of the research quoted above about more being better for older women which I felt was relevant for me.

I hope this is helpful and wish you the best of luck in your quest.

roze


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## daisyg

Hi Roze,

Just wanted to say that the research you are quoting applies to older women using their own eggs, not donor eggs where the age of the donor is the relevant age obviously.  Therefore I don't think you can apply the same criteria.

Daisy
x


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## alanelaine

Laddie,

Hi and welcome to the site.

AV's usual address is:

[email protected]

but you can also get Olga or Oxana at 

[email protected]

We'd recommend the latter.

Feel free to IM us if you feel you want to find out more and check out the Altra Vita thread on this board.

Good luck.

A&E


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## Putte

Hi ladies.

I am new on this board and I am from Denmark  

I am going through egg donation programme. We have been offered ( has to pay of course) PGD at our clinic, Repromeda Czech Republic, not because there is something wrong ( not that we know of) but just to be sure to transfer the very best of the embryos. My husband doesn't have a excellent sperm quality, he has 9 mill.  – 7 mill. after. Our doctor at the clinic says if we choose it we will have a greater chance for pregnancy, because they then can pick out the very best without any fault's in the embryos. At the clinic they always do blastocyst transfer and ISCI. I don't know much about PGD and have been trying to read a little about it on the Net, and some clinic are saying that sometimes PGD gives false results, such as:   
"The embryo is truly chromosomal normal but PGD says it is abnormal, The embryo is truly chromosomal abnormal but PGD says it is normal. False results are seen for about 5-15% of embryos (this issue is actually fairly complicated)"

What would you do? We just have to give an answer one week before transfer (In April)… when this offer of PGD comes up of course I am thinking ….maybe – just maybe, they will find just the very best blasts to transfer do you understand my thoughts here? On the other hand I will not do this if not necessary I have been reading of women, who only had 3 or 4 embryos out of 10 or more to use after the PGD, and they were told, that if they did not have done this PGD, they maybe would have transfered one of them which didn't made it through the PGD even though they were looking excellent.... 

If you have any experience or advice I will appreciate it very much. I am also thinking: Well there ARE a lot of women who doesn't do PGD and get pregnant anyway - isn't it so?

Thanks a lot for your support.

Putte


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## larkles

Hi Putte

Welcome to the site  

Sorry but I don't know the answer to your questions but am sure someone will post a reply soon! There is a thread for those people going to the Czech clinic, maybe someone there can help you

All the best in your journey  

Larkles
xx


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## safarigirl

HI Putte
welcome to the site.  Perhaps you could ask whether you could first see how many eggs you get from your donor.  If you get quite a few, then perhaps you could do pgd on some of them, and still fertilise the others, making sure that no matter what you have some to transfer.  If you get 6 or less then perhaps you could just ask them to fertilise them and take your chances??!

I was offered pgd (on my own eggs) and eventually declined it as i was just worried that i would have no embies to transfer - however if you are using a donor, and are able to get a good number of eggs, then i would go for half and half.  
As you know the "problem" with pgd is that by the time the process is over you might not have any embies to transfer. 
Good luck with whatever you choose


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## Tea63

Hi Putte

Nice to see another Dane on board - thought you had to be with that name  
I have not done pgd, but would have done on my last cycle if the clinic (Invimed) did it. My thought was that if they before hand could see if there was something wrong with the embies then there was no point in putting them back again - think I have had to many of them put back  - I have been going through about 20 cycles (incl IUI's, fresh + FET with own eggs and with donor eggs) so could maybe have cut that in half if they had been tested before hand.
But have a look around on the board - you will probably find something  
Or just follow Safarigirls advice - that way you get it boths ways.
Held og lykke med hvad du end be****ter dig til 
Tea


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## three_stars

Welcome Putte and glad you found a fellow countrywoman here!

I echo what Safarigirl wrote.  

I think pgd is something to research and understand all the pros and cons but should really be decided day by day when you get to EC and after as you will make these decisions better when you know how many embryos you have and what quality.  PGD is not 100%; I never yet used it but having now gone through miscarriages, chemical pregnancies and low HCG levels causing 2ww to string out to 5ww, I would be keen to do anything additional to ensure the ones put in are the best ones.  Trouble is there are still so many factors, namely your lining and the implantation.  And doing PGD will not help with that and you may just be wasting embryos.

I am sure you will find many comments already on this and others that will post there reasons for / against.  Sometimes it has to do with cost as well.  In UK or USA it may just be so expensive that you have to weigh up its usefulness vs. additional cost to your cycle.  I do not know the price at Repromeda but I would guess it is not too unreasonable.  Have they said why you need to decide ahead of time?  Do they need to have a specialist for this come in? 

Good luck

B123


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## babycrazy

Hello Putte
I am under Sano Repromeda In C.Z also. There is only one other girl  as far as I know on there books from U.K. We have a thread, but we are a bit lonely over there as everyone has deiced to go with Reprofit , so we have been deserted, don't blame them as its eu1000 less, only thing is the donors are not all prov-en, so this means the Clinic are risking young womens fertility before having a child/children of her own, which is a bit naughty.  As a woman who has had children  i Could not live with myself knowing i may have caused this hell   to someone, for my own yearning and greed if someone else would like to look at it this way. 
S/meda have asked me also to do PGD because my hubby is 51, they say that because of his age ,it has been found that men can also produce Downs & Edwards syndrome etc. I am 50, so of coarse will be using D.E. 
As S/meda are on there website listed as the only PGD clinic in C.Z, I am a bit suspicious that they may want us to do this for research purposes at our expense.  Its another EU1300 on top of the eu4200..  I say this because I ask the Dr Stepan at Reprofit if he would recommend PGD in my case. He said if my husbands  was good  (it excellent no abs) and as I was using young woman's eggs he did not think it necessary, he also quoted price of eu850 for 5 x embies.  Now if R/meda are only PGD clinic, they must send there PGD Dr to all other clinics in C.Z to do PGD.  I asked S/meda how many embies they tested, they said all, but they only stim donor lightly meaning approx 8 eggs, you have option of more but have to pay for extra stim drugs for donor.
When We went for our 1st consoltation ,I was undecided about PGD, when I saw A child against all odds, on that prog,  a woman had her embies tested and had none put back, as all 3 that fert were abnormal, so would ofM.C if they took, this is why she had it done.  She had 7x IVF T.X, on 7th attempt  got only  BFP only to MC     . This made me deiced to have it done as i could not cope with another M.C, but now am undecided again because of the cost, also I have thought ,would they get to blast if abnormal.  HELP!! US,  if theres an expert out there, please!!!.
Xx
Karen


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## lallybroch

Hi

Gosh where to start.  I'm a bit of an old hand at this fertility treatment lark but have only just started looking into treatment abroad, hence this post.

Bit of background first.  My DH has Klinefelters Syndrome so we need donor sperm to concieve.  All our treatment to date has been at Edinburgh Royal Infirmary.  Over the past 3 years I have had 12 failed DIs, then 1 failed IVF (10 eggs - 0% fertilisation), 1 failed ICSI (22 eggs - 13 fertilised - end result chemical pregnancy but had 9 frosties),  2 failed FETs and am due to have my final FET next week.  However, I'm not feeling particularly positive about this FET working and as Edinburgh don't currently have any sperm for me to have another fresh ICSI I'm seriously considering going abroad but it's so hard to know where to go!

Am I right in thinking that 2 countries that seem to have a reasonable supply of donor sperm are Denmark & Spain?  I've been in contact with the IVI in Valencia who have been very quick at responding to all my queries, but their prices were higher than what I expected so I thought I'd "shop around" a bit more before making a decision.  I also e-mailed Ceram in Marbella last week but haven't yet had a reply from them.  Does anyone know what their success rates are compared to the IVI, what the waiting times are for ICSI with donor sperm and if they are cheaper than the IVI?  Are there any other clinics in Spain worth considering?  What about Denmark - does anyone have any experience of treatment with donor sperm there?  

One thing that's concerning me is the amount of time needed to spend in the country - what is a realistic amount of time to plan for?  Do you only go out after you have downregulated (presumably paying for a private scan in the UK)?  How do you get the drugs? The IVI told me they can't give me a cost for drugs as I have to get them in the UK but I don't understand how that works.  Can anyone enlighten me?

Sorry for all the questions!  Thanks for any help you can give!

Love

Lallybroch


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## earthe kitt

Hi - I can help with some bits...

I got Danish sperm via Invimed in Poland - didn't particularly ask for it but presumably the Doc found it easier for matching purposes. I also got a printout frm Cryo so I could chck donor characteristics (but not identity) on line.
Cost E200
(I also used donor eggs and had ICSI which cost E4200)

We had a long weekend in Poland for our initial visit - got drugs etc but you could actually do there and back in one day or just with an overnight stop

ET was the same - I was called on the day of donor egg collection - went out 2 days later and had ET within 2 hours of landing then went back to the hotel and spent 2 days in bed (virtually) - although you don't necessarily have to do that.
If you are using your own eggs and having a day 2 transfer then you will need 2 nights there if you plan to come back straight after embryo transfer and plan to have egg collection on th day you arrive - it's up to you to negotiate with the Doc

Protocol roughly the same in Spain, Poland where I have been - not sure about Eastern Europe but there is lots of experience on these boards

I think at Fertimed the Doc likes you to rest locally  for a number of days post ET

Hope that helps as a starter

Jo


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## earthe kitt

Sorry - forgot to say welcome to FF - I see this is your first post

 

Jo


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## lallybroch

Thanks very much Jo for taking the time to reply to me and for your welcome!

After ploughing though lots of information from 2 clinics in Spain & 1 in Denmark, we have actually made the decision to have 1 more attempt here in the UK, but at a clinic in Glasgow who now have donor sperm.  Hopefully we will get our long awaited BFP there, but if not, we may well take the decision to go abroad after that.  

Love

Lallybroch


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## miss hopeful

I hope this is where I start but I need some advice please. As you can see by our signature we have had a string of failures in the UK!!    We don't know what to do next other than think of adpotion or having a go abroad?? Is there anyone who had BFNs in the UK with DE and then went to a clinic abroad and achieved their dream?? if so which would you recommend? Money is a little tight but we just want to maximise our chances and give it our best shot!! What do we do?? miss hopeful xxxx


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## poppy888

Hi Miss hopeful!
Welcome to FF!!
You will find a lot of support from everyone.
I advertised for a donor, as we do not really do much egg share in my area. I got one, started down reg for 2 weeks, only to get a letter that my donor had changed her mind!
We tried with my own one egg and had a bfn. With a high fsh I have no choice but use donor eggs. I considered abroad because of the anonymity. Through www.myivfalternative.com, I found out about Reprofit clinic in Czech Republic,treatment including drugs is around £2000!! I fly out on the 10th Sept and Embryo tranfer is on 15th Sep!!
I did not have a long wait, I got a donor to match my requirements and more importantly its all anonymous!
In the uk, there is so much red tape about ovum donation, this has so far been a very smooth process!!
There are many similar clinics abroad which have good results. I think the first abroad babies are due later this year, but I'm sure many people will contact you with their treatment stories !!
I really hope you have luck in the future  
Poppy x

/links


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## Tweeter

Miss Hopeful

There are people who have had treatment in the UK and had BFN's only to find that they have BFP's when they go abroad for ED. I myself have tried both but unfortunately had a BFN both times. I am now having tests done to see if there are any other problems with me that may be causing this. I know that i have a tubal problem that needs sorting as i have had investigations done. There are other medications that the clinics will put you on if they feel you may have implantation probs. Have you had any other tests done or not? as i do feel that many clinics in the UK will simply keep going with treatment as long as you are willing to pay and you have to chase them for answers.

Tweeter x


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## miss hopeful

Thankyou Poppy and Tweeter for replying to me so quickly!! You are both very kind! I am sorry about your problems- infertility is so unfair!! Poppy- sounds exciting!! You got your treatment dates really quickly! Seems very reasonably priced too- do you get all the eggs or do you have to share?? 
Tweeter- I am sure you will get your dream soon- keep going girl!! miss hopeful xx


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## coconutkym

i am at institute Marques spain with donor eggs. lots of gals on thir list waiting to donate, all types haior and eye colour to so no waiting list.  BUT, the big but, its the most expensive. maybe also look at Ceram and IVI in spain

maybe send emails to all clincs to find out how keen they are to treat u(we gave up on polish clinics waitin for contact for this reason) regular contact and english speakers at clinc ill be v importnat once y start the journey there. also check out any hidden prices, we found put that FET was far more than we thougt but by then couldnt move our frosties to another clinc.

i have heard good reports about norway and kiev too and realy cheap apparantly


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## poppy888

Hi Miss hopeful,
Do you know that was my main concern..that I would be sharing eggs from the donor and I would get what was left over?!!!!
I put all my concerns to my co ordinator and she assured me very adamantly that my donor was my donor and they didn't use such a practice!!  
I did try the spanish clinics but really wanted a donor with my fair colourings..I was going to have at least 8 months wait, plus the expense.
I also contacted Russia, but the flight prices were too much, I also worried about travelling so far, as I had to get three connecting flights.
With Reprofit, I contacted them early July and had my ET date penciled in two weeks later!
I was nervous about using Reprofit, even my own consultant tried to encourage me to use the barcelona clinic..as she had visited it to see procedures. However reading all the positive info on FF convinced me to be brave  
I am very nervous..but still amazed that we have got this far so quickly in such a short space of time. I do worry about all the normal things that Egg donation brings..but I will cross that bridge when I get to it!!!!
Keep us all posted about your decisions
Good luck 
Poppy xx


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## VEC

Hi there

I know it is a bit late to jump in, but if anyone is looking for blonde hair/blue eyed donors, some clinics in Spain do quote very long waiting times, but IM has very brief waiting times.  Perhaps that's why they cost more (although bear inmind also that their quoted prices include drugs, whereas some clinic's don't).

Good luck in your search
VEC X


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## three_stars

HI

With all clinics it is important to find out what the price included... most of the clinic I went to abroad it was the treatment + the meds used for yourself and donor ( as this price depends on each person but they can give you an estimate)  when abroad I never paid a penny more for any blood tests, scans, injections, etc. and I know that is NOT the case in the UK.  ALso it is important if you have a donor to yourself to think about cost of FET as some places will charge as much as 2000 euros and others only 500 or so.  If you plan to be able to return for FET once or twice this can be expensive.  Many clinics do a donor share.. you are not get leftovers from the egg donor but rather her large batch pof eggs is split amongst two donors.  As the cost of IVF if so much less then in UK this can be acceptable... especially when you know that FET has a lowered chance of working.  
You have 2 DE and " FET.  You need to look at the feedback and what has been happening.  The clinics abroad will want you to give them a history and as much info as possible.  Also they usually will ask for many tests re done or new ones you did not have.  All of this can been done, again less expensively, when you go for a consultation visit if you time it all right in your cycle.  If you do have a good support gyn or clinic in Uk that will do tests and scans then you can do them locally and just go for treatment when ready.  
I did not understand from you sig what is "OF" and whether that is you or your DH so can not comment on that.  
The clinics doing DE in Europe are all about  4500-6000 euros except Spain which is higher, I guess because of supply and demand.  There is such a large portion of UK and rest of EU going there as it is easy, many clinics, and their culture is very positive about donating it seems. 

Generally on this group you will find people going to Spain, Poland, C Rep, Greece, a few other places sometimes like Latvia, Ukraine.  There is a yahoo group that is almost all people going to Ukraine or Moscow  ( see "conceiving abroad")  Kiev has more clinics and one main one most people go to ISIDA and is not requiring Visas like Moscow nor quite as expensive to go there or stay.  

I hope that helps.

B123


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## caz72me

Hi all, new to the boards - found this site whilst doing a search for IVF abroad.  I would like to find out about travelling from UK to have IVF abroad, Europe preferably.  But I have so many things going round my head thinking about it and reading about it.  We would be looking at normal IVF as all our tests have come back fine but still no BFP after 2 years and been diagnosed with unexplained infertility - How would we get medications? How would we get scans? Do we have to repeat all the Day 21 tests, FSH tests, HSG and Sperm Analysis or could we get our GP to repeat the blood tests and SA and then ask for copies of the results - do we have the right to ask for copies of these results - so many questions and probably many more and I'm hoping someone with some experience can help with some of it.  Am at the moment looking at the Marbella clinic Ceram as we would love to have a holiday in Marbella (went there 2 years ago and loved the place) so could do the IVF at the same time, but would like to go over for a weekend first and check out the clinic.  Any other suggestions/info would be greatly appreciated.


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## alanelaine

Caz,

Lots of people have read your post but nobody has helped!

If you visit your clinic for a pre-treatment consultation they can prescribe your meds, if not your GP can do so.

Most tests can be done here but you will need U/S scans before you fly out.  The tests are yours so you can insist that you are given copies (our clinic demands the originals).

CERAM is a good clinic and you should read all the reviews in the section above.

You can fit a TX into a two week visit but you may find that your cycle (and that of your donor, if you're doning DE) will dictate when you can go.

Hope this is helpful.

A&E


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## pombal

Hi Caz,

If you are looking at normal IVF then you can probably have all your treatment whilst you're in Spain (you'd probably have to plan on being out there for 2 - 2 1/2 weeks). I say this because I looked into having IVF in the UK (I live abroad) and this is what I would have done.
You can get copies of your tests but the clinic you go to might want to do some extra or more up to date ones.
There is a thread for Ceram in the international section under Spain - so if you are decided on them it might be worth posting there. Other spanish clinics worth a look are IVI (www.IVI.es) and IM (www.institutomarques.com).
Now is a great time to think about going out for a reccy cos the flights to Spain are really cheap over the winter 

Pombal x

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that Fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## Bewley

Hello everyone,

I've recently joined Fertility Friends and not quite sure where to leap in and say hello and mini intro (I warn you I'm known to waffle on but try and keep it brief   ) After 4 failed IUI's and 2 IVF/ICSI's where our embies failed to divide on both attempts we are moving onto sperm and donor egg treatment. We've decided to go with Isida in Kiev having emailed the contact there a million questions, she must be completely fed up with me but there is so much to ask isn't there. I am sure there is plenty I still don't know but haven't yet thought to ask. 

We are feeling excited but also a little overwhelmed about it all. I've got a scan next week that they wanted done and sending that with all my tests and then they will start matching. We don't want to start before February as I only had my last IVF cycle in September and feel we need a break and what with Christmas but was keen to give them plenty of time to match us. We have decided that we don't want anyone to know and that we won't be telling any children we have (really really hoping we have) so its important that we get as good a physical matching as poss. As we cant talk about its quite isolating at times and would love to get to know some of you lovely ladies who have been, or about to go through donor treatment. I am lucky enough to have a good friend who is doing DE and DS in Barcelona right now and just to be able to share worries and thoughts and ask questions really helps. 

I know we are doing the right thing for us but the whole process seems so alien to what any of us ever expected that can feel hard at times. We were mad enough to rip out our kitchen to extend it with a new one and living in c**p right now, not quite sure where our chill out recovery time went   Heyho it will be great when its done.

Really hope to hear if there are any cycle buddies out there for early next year or anyone who's been to Isida or just anyone going donor route really!

Before I begin a new chapter of war and peace I will sign off now  

Love Bewley x


----------



## safarigirl

welcome bewley ----- nice to have someone new onboard - this is just a quickie as i have to eat - but wanted to say hello ...
do post on the general abroadies post where we all chat (alot!)


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## Morvern

Welcome Bewley. You will find lots of information on this site. Most of us find it invaluable.  
Best of luck to you.
Morvern
x


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## Fidget

Bewley,

Wanted to say welcome to the site and hello..

As Safari has also said, the girls all generally chat on the abroadies chat thread, I will leave you the link so you can go and have a look and a natter 

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=117706.0

Debs
xx


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## Bewley

Thank you for your welcomes   

I will pop on that link and join in for a chat. Already the information I've got from here has helped a lot and made me think about everything I wanted to ask the clinic. Great to have contact with others going donor route, not so lonely  

Thank you
Bewley x


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Hi i've just had our first nhs tx here which resulted in BFN.  we want to start again asap and serching all the other options.  How does going abroad work, do you need to go there first for examinations/tests etc and how far in advance can you plan when you need to go for EC/ET  how do they monitor your womb lining etc.  My DH is up for it but he cannot take time off at short notice.

Becks xx


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## Mitchie

Hello Mini Mouse,
Firstly , sorry for your BFN  
I'm going for tx in Spain next month. 
I would reccomend going out beforehand; mainly because we DIDNT ( we're just going out once for the tx) and we've just had a NIGHTMARE getting the drugs we needed in time. Thought our UK clinic/or GP would sort us ( which they DID in the end) but it wasnt that easy, in fact it was a horrendous week not knowing if we would get them in time. If you go out to Ceram ( our Spanish Clinic) beforehand they give you all the drugs and can do all your blood tests while there too.
My GP has been great doing most of the blood tests we needed. As for the womb lining etc, we are paying our UK fertility clinic to do the scans needed. We then fax the results to our spanish clinic.
We had about 6 weeks notice from hearing we had a donor, to needing to be out there for the tx.
I realise that each clinic will operate slightly different, this is just my experience.
Hope that helps ??! 
Good luck,
Mitchie xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Thanks hun, yeah great bit of info. Hope everything goes ok for you!!


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## Mitchie

Thanks ! And all the best for you too !


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## jess p

Hi,

We did all our scans/bloods at our UK clinic and then flew out for a week for our first go in Athens.  We could have had bloods and even an aqua scan at Serum in Athens which would have been much cheaper than in the UK!

It's easy to get the drugs in Athens - you just go the the pharmacy and ask!!  I found them to be quite cheap except the 8% progesterone gel - this was about twice the price of the UK!

For our 2nd go my DH flew out on the Friday night - did his bit on the Sat am and flew straight home - the clinic is open 7 days a week!

I then flew out on my own on the Monday, had ET on Tuesday at lunch time and flew home the same evening!  Now got my 2nd BFP!!

It was short notice for me but DH could have had a frozen sample on our first go which would have meant he didn't even need to go again the 2nd time!

I can't recommend the Greek clinics highly enough - my treatment has been perfect!  My cons (Penny) phones and emails me all the time!  She gives you her home number and mobile!  She is a saint!! If only the treatment were as good in the UK!

Good luck, love Jess xxx


----------



## Mauwcat1

Hi ladies

I'm new to this board and in need of some help.  My gp thinks I'm going through premature ovarian failure as my fsh is over 60.  We have been told that ivf through egg donation is probably the next step, and hopefully will be referred to fertility clinic in Newcastle.  I have been looking at the websites for ivf abroad as I believe that the waiting list here is very long and at 39 years (don't ask me how that happened!) it would probably put me over their age cut off!  I just don't know where/what to do next.  The ivf abroad (especially Spain) sounds almost too good to be true, but not sure how you would co-ordinate treatment abroad and here e.g for medication etc etc.  We will get no nhs funding as I have a son from previous marriage and its so expensive in the uk, this is another reason that ivf abroad appears to be attractive.

Any advice would be appreciated.  If it takes me a while to reply its just because I am still learning how to navigate this site!

Thanx


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## babycrazy

HI Mauw
Lots of info if you look around on FF about clinics abroad, may i suggest you go to Eastern Europe for DEIVF, Look at the the Clinics section and there will be listed ie Clinics in UK clinics in Wales etc and you will see foreign clinics, some clinics in western Europe Scandinavia and a few in Eastern Europe don't do DEIVF.  Your well in on age as you are a spring chicken compared to some of us. The upper age limit goes from about 48 to 55 depending on clinic and country.
I have never been or looked at Spain as it cost a lot and think you may have no probs getting donors if you have Brown eyes and dark hair, but for blue theres a waiting list, You could have 2 or three goes in Eastern Europe opposed to 1 in Spain, but PMA you will only need one go.
You can also google clinics in Timbuktu etc and email them, a quick reply in quite good English is a good thing to start with. Most have flags of nationality they can converse in and you click on the UK flag and you can read the Webb sites in English.
Don't forget the price and ease of getting to the country, price of hotels and the time you need to stay, as it all adds to the bill. Some places like Cyprus or any where hot you can combine a holiday with TX.
Hope this helps
Angel blessing on your journey to motherhood this time around.
XX
Karen BC


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## roze

The one thing about having DE in Spain that I did not like was that Spanish law prevents you from having a fresh donor tx if you have frozen embryos. For me this put months onto the treatment as I once had 9 frozen after a failed fresh tx. (September 2005) I had to wait 4 months to go back for a frostie transfer, which did not work,(Jan 2006) ( 4 defrosted, two survived, two put back)  then a further 4 months to go back for the next frostie transfer, (May 2006) where none of the remaining 5 survived the thaw at all.  I was devasted by the cancelled tx, exacerbated by having the whole thing drawn out for almost 9 months, when I could perhaps have had more success with a fresh cycle.  I am not sure whether all countries impose this rule but if I were you I would factor this into the consideration.

Spain is less popular now due to rising costs, hence clinics in Czech, Ukraine, and Greece increased in popularity. However the economic situation and exchange rates are increasing the costs- I paid twice as much in the Ukraine in March (£4k) than I did in Sept 06 where I paid around £2000.

I initially chose Spain as it wasn't too far away and their success rates were good. I decided to change countries due to so many failures in Spain and felt that a change of scene was necessary in order to break the association with failure.  I was initially concerned about the distance but liked the sound of Kiev and felt I would be safer there than in  Moscow, and they had such good reviews and results. They were also flexible on how many embryos to put back, which was deemed to be an issue for older women regardless of the donors age. 
It was no more scientific than that , really!

I know a lot of people go to the US but I personally felt it was too expensive and did not like the 'choose the best looking donor' thing that exists over there and all the marketing that goes on.

I would suggest you start by looking at countries which you are comfortable with and then see how things stand re cost and success rates etc.

Best of luck with your journey- once you start you will have lots of support on this wonderful website!

roze x


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## Skirtgirl

Hi we have just had tmt in Valencia at the IVI clinic.
I was terrified to begin with as I couldn't understand how it would all work.
We had an initial visit where they took blood tests and did a donor matching questionaire.
Then they started me on meds. They seen to have an unlimited amount of donors and a big supply of frozen eggs.
For me the time from first visit to otd was about 6-7 weeks!!
When picking where to go I would make sure getting there is easy as you tend to get very little notice when you go for a fresh cycle.
Also cost may be important to you. Ours cost about 10,000 euros plus flights and hotels.
You have to have a certain amount of trust in them. We had an english speaking coordinator who I emailed all the time and who responded with 48 hrs they do have an international phone line with english speakers on the other end!!
You will need somewhere over here to get scans and blood tests during tmt. A local hospital/fertility clinic may have links with a clinic abroad.

Sorry if this is a bit disjointed but I just keep thinking of things. PM me if you need any more advice.


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## 11von11

Hi all,
I'm just starting out on my hunt for a clinic outside the UK. I'm finding the information and options all a bit overwhelming. It is such an important decision I'm getting anxious about making the right choice.
Not really sure how to narrow down the search.
I need donor eggs as chemo has damaged my ovaries and I don't want to wait on a long wait list, so I need to go outside the UK.
Can anyone give me suggestions of what questions to put in emails to the clinics
Thanks
Siobhain


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## vw22

Hi Siobhain,

Really sorry to hear you are having to resort to donor eggs and that you have also had to endure chemo.

I post on a thread that mainly girls going to IVI in Valencia, Spain use. Its got some really lovely girls on it and more importantly, lots of successes! Some girls have been posting on there from Portugal IVI too.

Take a look at

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=245929.new#new

and have a read through if you have some time. It might be a bit daunting at first but we have lots of newbies there too, starting for the first time this month, so don't feel intimidated by all the info!

I have been with the clinic for over a year but don't let that put you off! Many girls go there just the once and have a successful time. It is easy to fly to and a very modern clinic (check out their website). As far as I am aware they were the first in Spain to do Donor IVF and now have a whole chain around the country.

There are lots of other clinics of course, so hopefully someone will be on with some advice from those for you.

IVI is not the cheapest so be warned. I am sure you can go to the Ukraine etc for probably half the cost....so it depends what is going to suit you.

IVI has a huge donor bank and also girls cycling constantly, so you have choices.

Anyway take a look and pop over to our thread for more info. Post any questions and I am sure you will get a great response.

If it doesn't look like the clinic for you, best of luck with your journey wherever you go!

vx


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## 11von11

Thanks for the reply.
there is certainly a lot of info here. It is so nice to know that you are not alone on this journey.


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## Oceana

Serum in Greece has no waiting lists and a lot cheaper than Spain. They have donors from around Europe so can find you a match to your characteristics. If you go to the Greece section you will find a lot of women raving about how good Penny is there.


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## jimjam183

Hi ladies

11von11, I've been in similar shoes to you... I had an early menopause age 24 after chemo, and was told to go for egg donation. We wernt entitled to it on NHS as DH has a son from prev marriage, and were told we'd struggle for yrs waiting for a donor as I am Asian (we wouldn't get ethical approval for a Caucasian donor apparently despite DH being Caucasian himself!) So we were advised to go abroad!

We had our first consultation in the IM clinic Barcelona in September (there was no wait) and I have just had 2 embies put in last sat! That's how quick things can be abroad! They match your bloodgroup and physical characteristics, and in Spain, leagally the donors are completely anonymous. All the eggs collected are yours (no sharing) and they guarantee a min of 6 mature eggs of good quality. 

They have been thorough, professional, extremely good at keeping in touch with us, and pretty much walked us through it all. The treatment is pricey (about 10,000 euros per fresh cycle) and I am yet to find out the outcome (preg test is 22 nov).

There are loads of great clinics abroad, in many European countries, and lots of people on here have good experiences with them.  

Good luck with it all.  xxx


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## jimjam183

Also, as vw22 has said, I've heard great things about the IVI clinics in Spain too. They are supposed to be fab too with good success rates. A ff friend has had a good experience and I think that was the ivi clinic in Valencia. 

It is all very daunting, but it all falls into place. 

If you go on the websites of these clinics you can get lots of info. Also worth considering is which places have convenient access... (convenient frequent flights from airports near where u live so u can get out there without hassle at short notice) I ended up basing my final choice on this as was spoiled for choice, they all seem like good clinics!)

Xx


Xxx


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