# bbc radio talk on ivf



## Queenie1 (Aug 21, 2008)

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=235171.0

thought i would post if anyone is interested in listening.


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## kara76 (Dec 14, 2004)

nice one queenie


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## SarahJaneH (Nov 21, 2009)

Thanks for that Queenie. I saw the news on BBC1 this morning and will definitely listen later.


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## PixTrix (Aug 20, 2008)

great Queenie. Here's another link that was posted on that thread

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8640320.stm

/links


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## Queenie1 (Aug 21, 2008)

any one listening.
heres link to message from clinic

http://www.ivfwales.co.uk/

/links


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## SarahJaneH (Nov 21, 2009)

Thanks for the reminder Queenie, got it on now


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## kara76 (Dec 14, 2004)

my bloody volume wont work but i have read the link!

more bad press for IVF!you know what girl, we have a great clinic and i think its great clinic have responded. if people are gona speak to the press then speak out why hide!


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## Queenie1 (Aug 21, 2008)

its like they are picking on ivf wales and not mentioning any other clinics and i'm sure other clinic's make mistakes. so why pick on ours. 

i for one i'm very happy with the staff and clinic.


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## Queenie1 (Aug 21, 2008)

kara do you have sky i'm listenning on channel 0105


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## kara76 (Dec 14, 2004)

i have a mate who went for a fet and then found the straw empty! at least nothing is covered up and the HFEA (thanks for all the restriction you put on us ) are informed. 

im listening now


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## PixTrix (Aug 20, 2008)

I've got it recording so going to listen later. Great response from IVF Wales.


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## AprilR (Apr 25, 2010)

Evening Everyone
I'm new to the room but thought I had to comment (I hope you dont think I'm intruding).
I've had a cycle of treatment elsewhere where my embies didnt survive the thaw process but I have made contact with 2 women from outside of Wales who had this new freezing process at IVF Wales and both had 100% survival and both got pregnant which puts todays story into perspective I have just read the clinics comments on the web site and feel that they are being attacked over nothing? Am I missing something??
I'm very keen to have an appointment and have been recommended to speak to Lindon? Does anyone know how I can get an appointment with him?
April xx


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## kara76 (Dec 14, 2004)

april your not intruding at all, everyone is welcome here

the man you wana see is lyndon, great guy. you would need to request an appointment to see him when you book an appointment

vitrification is highly successful and does increase the chance of pregnancy using frozen embryos. 

i think this is all media hype and i would like the couples who speak to the press to not hide and be open if they wana talk be fully open about it


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## SarahJaneH (Nov 21, 2009)

I sent a text to support the clinic, but they didn't read it out.  I worry for people awaiting treatment who are already stressed and may now worry about the quality of the clinic. This week the staff were absolutely great to us and totally professional at every level. 
I wish the media would try to be more balanced on such emotive issues, but that's never going to happen is it...


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## kara76 (Dec 14, 2004)

The number of mistakes made at IVF clinics in *England and Wales * nearly doubled in 12 months, figures obtained by the BBC show.

yeah england and wales!!!!

*The Human Fertilisation and Embryology Association (HFEA) - the IVF regulatory body* - said reported incidents rose from 182 in 2007/8 to 334 in 2008/9.

the good old hfea that puts restrictions on our treatments, gotta love them NOT

The HFEA said that represented below 1% of more than 50,000 cycles carried out.

1% yeah thats 1%, all this for 1% of a massive 50,000 cycles

Incidents range from technical failures to serious mix-ups including the wrong sperm being put with the wrong egg.

One woman told the Donal MacIntyre Show her last remaining embryos went missing during treatment.

Clare, who did not wish to give her surname, told the programme: "I was sat there, gowned up, waiting to go in and have a transfer.

well done clare, you have probably scared alot of people waiting for treatment and not even been fully open about it, this is a one line quoted from what was probably a 10 to 15minute interview and they always chose the quote with the most impact!! i know i have been interviewed many times

The key failure of the HFEA is that when they ask clinics to put in special procedures they're not enforcing them

HFEA failure! well they fail patients i say by placing restrictions on treatments here in the UK

Dr Sammy Lee, University College Hospital 
"They said you've got one embryo remaining, the other two embryos have gone missing.

"They said in the next sentence I can assure you they haven't gone into anyone else."

"Those were two potential babies," said Clare, and the only explanation the clinic could offer was that they must have "slipped off the straw" during the freezing process.

i suggest people look up how tricky the freezing/thawing process is and understand that this is very very rare but does happen and not just in IVF Wales.

The clinic involved, IVF Wales at the University Hospital of Wales in Cardiff, says its success rate in recovering embryos is among the highest in the world and all incidents are reported to the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority (HFEA).

highest in the WORLD, says it all girls

The same clinic was responsible three years ago for a serious incident in which a couple's last viable embryo was implanted in another woman. An investigation showed serious failings at the clinic.

yawn yawn thats old news

'Deeply disturbing'

Guy Forster, from Irwin Mitchell Solicitors, said Clare's was a familiar story.

In the past 12 months he said he has dealt with a dozen couples involved in similar incidents at different clinics around the country.

so in 12 months he has has 12 couples contact him from different cycles round the country, that means 11 couples are from other clinics!!!

LISTEN TO THE FULL REPORT 
Subscribe to the podcast 
Email the programme [email protected]
Follow the Donal MacIntyre Programme on ******** 
"It may be perhaps that the embryos have been lost, or in the worst case scenario an embryo has been transferred into the wrong patient. It's deeply disturbing."

very rare!

Often couples who have been victims of IVF mistakes do not come forward because of the sensitive nature of the treatment.

i would say often couple probably dont come forward because they are probably then given free treatment and go on to get pregnant

Leading fertility expert at University College Hospital, Dr Sammy Lee, said: "The key failure of the HFEA is that when they ask clinics to put in special procedures, they're not enforcing them.

"There's no point simply putting a request in writing and then expecting everything to be all right. You need to make sure that when you require something that you have a way of enforcing it."

im sure clinic must enforce things as they get inspected each year, these clinic deal with many patients and work hard

Bar coding

A number of clinics have introduced electronic tagging or bar coding in laboratories to prevent potential mix ups.

Some clinics are bar coding embryos 
When eggs, sperm or embryos in the lab are put under a microscope the system electronically recognises which patient the dish belongs to. If the wrong container is picked up, it triggers an alarm.

The system is already proving very successful at the Hewitt Centre for Reproductive Medicine in Liverpool, one of Europe's largest IVF clinics.

Dr Steve Troup, scientific director at the centre, said: "In the past we did this manually, which was effective, but this new system makes it even more efficient and avoids potential problems that have occurred in other hospitals."

The initial installation of the system can cost about £100,000 depending on the size of the clinic. The running costs are about £25 per patient but Dr Troup believes patients are happy to pay for that extra level of security.

"When an error does occur the consequences are catastrophic and unacceptable," he said.

A number of experts in the industry have called for this tagging system to be made compulsory at all clinics.

so is the NHS gona pay for this, i think not! would you as a patient prefer more treatment or a bar code? 

everything i have written is my opinion and mine only and does not represent fertility friends or ivf wales. i am annoyed that our clinic seem to be pinpointed yet there are other which are not mentioned. the media can be postive and negative and when a negative story comes out i worry for the name of ivf when in fact for us all of us here, ivf is our hope to become parents and mistakes are so so rare


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## Laura36 (Jun 27, 2007)

Kara, I agree with you. 

It must be horrific to experience a problem like this but I'm certain it happens at every clinic on a rare basis. 

IVF Wales staff are amazing. It must be very hard when this kind of bad press happens.  But I like their response and I agree it's good to be up front about it.

I'm just hoping my MIL didn't hear this on the news as she already thinks we should be going elsewhere - for no apparent reason, lol.


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## SarahJaneH (Nov 21, 2009)

I read in the paper today that a partial explanation for the doubling of incidents across England and Wales in the last year is that they now have to report OHSS cases to the HFEA. I wonder how many of those additional cases can be put down to this. Why was this not mentioned in the BBC report - that would make it less sensational I guess...

Article is here, and this is only mentioned towards the end
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/errors-at-fertility-clinics-double-in-just-one-year-1953741.html

/links


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## PixTrix (Aug 20, 2008)

Just listened to this and flipin nora. Considering it was supposed to be about clinics across the board of England and Wales they unfairly targeted IVF Wales and had there not been that email from somebody in a London clinic there would have been no mention of error anywhere else. This will not help with the difficult task that the clinic are faced with implementing the second cycle  

Interesting Sarah. That will certainly contribute to the numbers.


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## kara76 (Dec 14, 2004)

oh thats typical reporting isnt it! makes me cross cause the staff work so so hard.


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