# Should we move to Ireland?



## Guest (Aug 5, 2009)

This post is more family than fertility orientated but I was hoping some of you irish ladies could help me out a bit.

I am english and currently live in england with DP and our DS who will be 2 in october.
DP is irish and has been in england since 1996 when she came over to do her nurse training. We have been together for 8 years now and currenly trying for another baby. 

Since DS came along, DP has felt the need to be nearer her family again back in ireland. We currently live within an hours drive of my parents and all my sisters. Her family all live in the same village she grew up in in co. cavan. We are at her parents at the moment, having a wonderful time as they have a fabulous house and her sister has a farm so DS is up there all the time with his young cousins. Everytime we visit I feel more and more comfortable being here but I still have so many reservations about moving to ireland and would love other's opinions. 

For one, I will miss my family terribly but of course it is impossible to please us both on that issue and I have to look at it that maybe is is DPs turn to have family close by.
We have decided to think about moving to a village around Enniskillen. I feel more 'comfortable' being in the north and we have both worked for the NHS for years and a new hospital is being built there for 2012. One of the positives for me is that we could afford village life in ireland as we currenly live on the edge of a big town as we cannot afford the villages where we live. I would love to see DS (and hopefully our other children) running around in a lovely huge garden.

My main concern is any prejudice we may come across. I don't know if this should be a real concern or whether it is based on the only part of ireland I know. For 4 years DP lived a totally seperate life when she came back to see family. They knew nothing of me and I could never make contact with her when she was away. Even though we lived together, she still kept on paying the rent on her flat so she had somewhere to 'live' when her parents came to england to visit! They now know and it has been very hard for them but they are now fine with us. When DS came along I think it was another kick in the guts for them too. We have a huge family wedding next year and only immediate family know that DS and I exist! It just couldn't be anymore different to my family where EVERYONE knows and my mum talks about us to all her friends and we have NEVER had any negativity from anyone. DP's Mum recently told her Mum and I know it is an older generation, but she was even more upset that I wasn't catholic either! I have come to understand that religion is a big deal in ireland and I've really tried to learn about the history and politics behind it all. Sometimes, when we are having a few drinks with DP's family and the men start discussing politics etc. I feel like I am about to be lynched  , like it is all my fault for being english! They always refer to me as protestant even though I always tell them that I do not consider myself to be of any religion and don't consider it to be of any importance anyway. Even though england has many problems, I just feel that it is a very liberal and open minded country with so many different cultures and I want my children to be inflluenced by that. Like I said, DP's family and their small village lifestyle is all I know of ireland and I don't want to judge a whole nation on that view!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just want some reassurance I suppose, that we can move our family to ireland and I will feel safe that we will not be judged as a female couple and more importantly, DS will not be judged for being our child.

Thanks for reading all this!


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## shaz2 (Mar 24, 2006)

hi moo2275

i just wanted to say hello, and let you no that not all irish people are bitter, society today has started changing but unfortunately it doesnt mean that everyone changes with it, im sure no matter where use live there will always be some sort of controversy as there is still alot of small minded people about. I would think you would be safe enough to live here, at least i would like to think so !! Im in a mixed marriage and i have to say we have never had any bother from anyone,(thank god).

Regarding suiting your familys you have to do whats best for both use and your son. I hope use work out where is best for use as a family, ireland is indeed a lovelly place but like everywhere it has small minded people, but they dont make up the whole community. personaly i would give ireland a whirl, you may actually love it... 

best of luck
shaz2


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## Irish Dee (Jan 30, 2008)

Hi Moo 275,

Just wanted to add my opinion.

A little bit of background of me and my DH.  I'm originally from Cork City, (most southerly point in Ireland). I'm Catholic and from a very large family.

I moved to Ipswich in 1999 and met my English husband in 2004.  I was 32 at the time and he was 48.  To top it of, he had 2 broken marriages behind him and a daughter of 23!!!!

The biggest difficulty between English/Irish relationships is that there is so much history between the 2 countries and the hard facts of what actually happened between the 2 countries are not taught in English schools, whereas Irish history is taught to everyone in Ireland, including all the troubles between these 2 countries.

One of my aunts asked my mum before we got married, 'Is there any bit of Irish in him at all?', which we found really funny, but my whole extended would have felt better if there had been. 

There is no history of divorce in my family and my mum said, Everyone knows that Martin is divorced, but I did not tell anyone how many times!!!.

When we go back to Ireland, Martin is treated very, very well and everyone is mad about him, but I know that we face less 'opinions' here in UK.  

I generally think that English society minds it's own business a bit better than at home, where everyone's choices and lives are under scrutiny.  Now this also brings benefits as there are closer family relationships, but the downside of this is the fact that your life is 'public' property.

We don't have any kids yet, but am having egg transfer tomorrow (  ) so maybe that is all about to change.  I have said to Martin that I would need to spend more time back in Cork if we do have a baby, but my home is now in the UK.

Best of luck with whatever you decide, but a lot of Irish people hold preconceived ideas about English, whereas I find that, in general, most English people are very fond of the Irish and I've only ever had a very positive reception in the UK.

Dee


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2009)

Dee - DP and I met in Colchester!

It's right what you say about the history lessons. MIL thinks that the english all walk around bragging that they 'own' part of ireland! I had never even thought about ireland til I met DP, I just had lots of irish nursing friends to get very drunk with  

I do hope everything goes well tomorrow


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## Lucille33 (Jan 15, 2009)

hello!

I'm English and dh is Irish and we live in Dublin.  I would say yes, wherever you live in Ireland you will get prejudice against you for being English, mostly in jest, but I have to say it does put a downer on my life here and is one reason I would really prefer to move back to England (the other's being quality of life as it would be cheaper where I am in England than here in Dublin, and of course being closer to my family).  It's never very overt, but it sometimes crops up and I have found that even friends and very liberal people do have feelings that are negative towards English people, and will have occasionally made comments I have found hurtful.  Lots of people will draw attention to my accent and ask me about what brings me here etc, and assume I'm on holiday, but I suppose that's just coz Ireland isn't as cosmopolitan as the uk.  Friends have told me that they were taught that protestants don't believe in the virgin mary and I think the history that they are taught at school is very biased towards the Irish side of events! As you would expect it to be! The English don't have prejudices based on historical events against the Irish as they haven't been taught anything at all, there are the stereotypes of Irish people being stupid and drunk though.  Sometimes I think it makes people keep their distance from becoming good friends with me as well, although maybe that is self fulfilling as maybe it sometimes makes me come across as stand offish I don't know!  I have to say I would never consider moving to the country as I imagine it would be worse! That all sounds really negative, everyone's experience is different, mostly it's not like that, but sometimes it is! 

Also - I have to say having said all that the only directly 'racist' things me and dh have experienced were in London where my dh was taking photos for his job and someone started swearing at him and accusing him of being in the ira! and someone called him an 'irish w a n k e r' out of a car window when they were driving past, just coz he had an irish rugby jersey on.  so I don't know!! there's no perfect answer!!

In terms of prejudice against same sex couples, I would say that is less of an issue! Although, I don't have any direct experience of that.  But here in Dublin there are lots of same sex couples.  My friend did say once that he had builders round and they were funny coz he could see the penny dropping that there was only one bedroom and maybe the man they thought was the lodger actually wasn't - but even then they didn't say anything to him.

hope I haven't put you off!!

lol
Lucille XX


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## Lucille33 (Jan 15, 2009)

one other thing is that in the 'south' the whole troubles etc and politics side is much less of an issue, so even though you say you'd prefer the north it might be easier for you in the south. here it's just a kind of vague grudge rather than actual animosity, which maybe you get more in the north!!!!


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## Irish Dee (Jan 30, 2008)

"I think the history that they are taught at school is very biased towards the Irish side of events! As you would expect it to be! The English don't have prejudices based on historical events against the Irish as they haven't been taught anything at all"

Hi Lucille,

Not going to get political, but history (and by that I mean facts written in history) shows the harsh treatment that Ireland received from the English, so therefore, the reason the English don't have prejudices based on historical events against the Irish, is that there is nothing to teach, not that it is not taught.

Dee


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## Lucille33 (Jan 15, 2009)

I didn't mean there's nothing to teach!! I just meant it isn't taught in schools in england i.e. not on the curriculum!! also I know it is obviously bad that the english occupied ireland (still do!) and that so many irish were killed etc!! I just mean that they way it has been taught in the irish schools seems to indicate to most irish people that all english people were responsible even those today who have nothing to do with it - which is obviously not the case!! (for example the use of the phrase 'the english' as treating the irish badly - should that not be 'the english government / army / landlords at a particular time'?) or that how it seems when they talk to me about it - maybe those I've spoken to just had bad teachers!

n.b. I notice I also use the phrase 'the english' ha ha - I'm a plastic paddy myself!!!


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## Lucille33 (Jan 15, 2009)

oh I see I've misread your post! you mean that the english wouldn't have prejudices as the irish have never done anything bad to the english in terms of historical events?  well I wouldn't know coz I've never been taught about it!!


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## Irish Dee (Jan 30, 2008)

Ha ha,  Sorry I picked up your post wrong.  See how sensitive 'the Irish' are?

Personally, I live and make my living in UK and married to one of 'The English'.  Sorry for being so sensitive.

Dee
x


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## Lucille33 (Jan 15, 2009)

ha ha me too! I think both 'the english' and 'the irish' are just a bit sensitive about it all! maybe that's why I think people are being prejudiced against me when they're not!!!  obviously my dh and all his family and most of our friends are not at all prejudiced and we all get on grand, it's just a minority that might be!! you're going to get racists everywhere!!  out of interest, would you have experienced similar feelings / experiences to me in the uk or not? also any overt racism from any english people like my dh had?


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## Irish Dee (Jan 30, 2008)

Not really, I always get a good reception.  Apart from people saying 'Top of the morning to ya', but I can live with that.  A senior manager at a temping job did say to me "when will the Irish get over the potato thing?", which I was so shocked at that I just said to him, please don't make jokes about things you don't understand and left it at that.

I love my life in UK and athough I go back to Cork frequently, my home is now here.

Dee


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## Lucille33 (Jan 15, 2009)

yeah I know, I cringe when I hear people saying 'bejaysus' etc to my dh! and seeing him having to kind of laugh even though it's not funny at all!!  it's ok when it's your friends, but when it's strangers it's just really patronising!  I guess all of that though (and your boss's comment) is coz we don't know much about it!  my dh must to some extent have been unlucky with the racism he experienced I think, coz I've never really heard of anyone else having anything as bad as that! or maybe he just looks shifty!!


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## Lucille33 (Jan 15, 2009)

I didn't mean all irish people - just a minority! you're right though, having not been to the schools I have no idea if it is teachers or parents, I meant to say that some irish people are prejudiced against english people.  I don't mean to cause offence, as a history teacher you obviously know that you don't teach children to be prejudiced!  I'm just talking about my experience as an english person living in ireland - I have experienced numerous sarky comments about being english and been told that 'you persecuted us' etc, and people have told me these sort of attitudes came from what they were taught in school, obviously I've never been to school in ireland so I've no way of knowing that!  

re reading my post on the north, I think that is too general and also something I know little about as I don't live there, that is really speculation that it could be easier in the south as most events are more historic here in the south.

I don't mean to dwell on it, as I seem to have made it sound like everyone here is being racist towards me all the time and that isn't true at all!!!


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## Lucille33 (Jan 15, 2009)

that sounds really interesting! also, the people who have said that to me are in their 30s so I would imagine things have changed alot since they were at school!!  would the children you teach have experience of anything directly related to the troubles? it must be a difficult issue to deal with when it is so raw.

I know - I don't want to put moo off!! it's actually great living here!! i've only had a few more comments really than when I lived in london for being from the north of england!!!!!


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## Cate1976 (Oct 29, 2007)

DH and I live in Omagh. The church we go to is cross community non denominational. I grew up in England and moved over here beginning of 2003 6 mnths after meeting now DH. Although we are both Christians, if anyone wanted to go down the Catholic/Protestant on our religious beliefs, he would be deemed to be Catholic and I would be Protestant. We've never had any trouble at all. We beleive that when it comes to religion, everyone can believe what they feel is right for them and we respect the beliefs of others. I've met people who aren't interested in religion at all and I've said to them that the way I do it is if anyone wants to know what I believe, I'll tell them but if they're not interested then I'll respect that and talk about other things. I don't know what Enniskillen is like though. I do believe that things are changing for the better and that schools are doing what they can through Citizenship to try and break down some of the prejudices especially in Integrated schools (mixed religion).


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## Guest (Aug 7, 2009)

Lucille and Dee - I did end up smilimg by the end of your posts but I think your little 'discusion' just highlights how sensitive it all is. We came back to england last night and it just gets harder and harder everytime. Wherever we end up, one of us is going to miss out on being with their family. Why didn't I just marry the boy next door


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## Lucille33 (Jan 15, 2009)

don't think we helped you much though! sorry!


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## Cate1976 (Oct 29, 2007)

DH and I see my parents about 3/4 times a year. They come over here at least once a year. For keeping in touch with family, Skype with webcams would be good. I'm 22+3 with twins and already have Skype on my laptop, getting webcam soon and my parents are hoping to do the same so they can see the twins grow up.


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## eibhlin (Mar 4, 2009)

Hey hun,

Thanks for putting this post up - it's very interesting to read about this.  In terms of history I'm embarrased to admit but a lot of people (cringe, I've actually done it myself I'm realising) get very passionate (particularly after a few jars) about the old sod in the company of our neighbours - especially when we're all getting on just terrifically, somehow we find ourselves trying to explain our history even though many of us (myself included) have dreadful memories and only remember the highlights (or lowlights!) extremely vaguely, and we start off trying to be all helpful and informative and end up with tears of national pride in our eyes (it's ridiculous, as we don't normally act like that at all and spend the whole time griping about Ireland, politics, the weather and talking about how we'd like to live elsewhere, in the sun preferably).  

That said most of us really, really don't mean anything by it and I feel just awful imagining what it must be like to sit in the company of a normally nice person harping on about 700 years of opression and famines etc.,. it's just this itch we have to scratch, kind of like when we're in the presence of kindly Germans having a Steiner and a laugh and find our minds drifting to sixty odd years ago and wondering what their families were up to (terrible, terrible, most unenlightened, must do better!).  And after reading this I promise I'm actually NEVER EVER going to do it again!

I live in Dublin where for the most part the history issue is probably what you might come up against.  Generally speaking I think that gay couples don't get more stick/attention than in other cities in europe but as I'm not gay I suppose I mightn't really know.  

The only thing is that Irish people have a habit of staring.  I know this sounds a bit harsh, but after being away for a good while and then coming back we really noticed this.  It's just idle curiosity, probably comes from having a small population/communities, and it happens to everyone.  I even find myself doing it without meaning to.

And the other thing is that our sense of humour can be disconcerting or over-familiar, especially outside of the major cities.  People can say things sometimes that make me blink in shock until I realise they're joking.  If there's anything different or unusual about you this can happen - i.e. teasing people from other countries, people without children, people who wear unusual clothes etc.,.  

I've made Ireland sound very odd.  Honestly it's not, a lot of people move here and love it.  I'm sure if you move here you'll settle in just fine! 

xx


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2009)

Just had to add this quote from our latest visit to the inlaws!

Me, DP, DS, SIL and her 3 kids all walked across fields to see SIL's MIL   (hope that makes sense). When we got to the house we were taking our wellies off and she asked me, in all seriousness, if I had ever worn wellies before  . I felt like saying, "no I haven't, I walk the dog in my white stilettos every day"


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