# BFN: AF on day 9/10



## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi,

It was supposed to be my test date y'day   but I got my AF last week already..it was only the 9th/10th day after ET.  Is this normal or does this mean that my hormone level wasn't right, or   It was our first full cycle, short protocol, and my AF usually comes now (well, it has for the last 2 months anyway) around day 25.  I just didn't expect it so early and would have liked to 'dream' for a bit longer...perhaps it was better to be put out of my misery though.! 

Good to hear if anyone else has experienced fairly early AFs after a cycle?

BH x


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## *lisalou* (Mar 11, 2005)

hi bh...

im so sorry 2 hear of ur bfn  when ive had bfn in past af usually came around 4 days b4 test date....take care
love lisa xxxxx


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## madison (May 6, 2005)

Hi,

I know how you feel, my AF arrived day 8/9 after my ET.

  I still wasn't convinced for a few days, Think I was just trying to dream a little longer but if I was being honest with myself I'd have known it was all over.
I know its hard & sympathise with you.
Mine was late May this year, I am going to try again in Oct. Short protocol next time as I didn't respond to well on long protocol so embies wernt great !!
If you ever want to chat IM me or if your next go ends up being in Oct also we could keep eachother company thro that.
Whatever you decide to do next ,,, good luck,,,

  Katy. xxxx


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## Kelsey (Nov 8, 2004)

Hi BH  

I got my AF on day 11 on my first ICSI failure last Nov, and it sadly started on only day 7 on my second ICSI cycle in April/May  
What were you taking in the 2ww? I was using crinone (progesterone gel), it's similar to cyclogest.

I've talked to other early bleeders on here- one lady, on her first cycle, bled on day 10, and for her next cycle, her clinic upped the cyclogest dose to 3 a day and perscribed her steroids, which she started taking during stims. Some consultants will say though that steroids is a controversial tx  This lady did test borderline positive to NK cells, so I think this was the reason she was offered steroids.
I was worried that I had immune problems by bleeding so early (I've never been tested for NK cells) but 2 consultants told me that the reason I bled so early was that my embryo's implanted, but because they were abnormal in some way, my body rejected them, and that's why I started AF so soon. One of them referred to it as a "mini miscarriage". 

Another lady I read about on here said she bled early on all 3 of her BFN cycles and said the only time she didn't bleed early was when she got a BFP. Perhaps this means that our bodies are just good at recognizing abnormalities and won't allow the embryo's to stay unless they're compatible with life.

My cycle buddy from my first cycle, who started bleeding like me on only day 7, has been perscribed gestone IM injections for her 2ww, which she has every other day in conjunction with the cyclogest pesseries. From what I've read on here, gestone is better at holding back the tide- however two consultants I've chatted to about gestone say the injections are quite painful   


I'm so sorry this happened with your cycle- it's horrible to not even be allowed the "dream" for the full 2 weeks 
Have you had your follow up appointment yet? Will be interesting to here what they say about the early bleeding. Maybe for your next cycle they'll offfer you something different to take for  the 2ww 

Huge  for you next cycle and fingers crossed it'll be second time lucky 

Take Care,

luv Nat


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2005)

Hi Nat

I was just wondering about the lady who was given steroids for her next tx, where she is on her tx and how she is getting on. I am currently taking steroids for NK cells on my 2ww, day 10 now. I had af on day 5ww for my FET and on 1stfresh cycle bled/spotted on day 10 but both times full af didn't show up until after the preg test. I am also taking 75mg aspirin a day. Both of these I asked if I could take and be tested for NK cells. They don't reallys tart doing investigations until after you've had 3 miscarriages or lots of failed tx's but if you ask for atest privately then they can do it. I don't want to wait until this happens to me. I was also just over the borderline for NK cells and am taking 30mg prednisolone a day. If you don't try these things you never know, the HFEA have even written on the subject of 'controversial' NK cells immunity.

I was told that cyclogest can delay af anyway so I don't fully understand why af can come early before preg test, maybe you are right it is the embryo implanting but there is something wrong with it and it comes away with the lining of af.

Sorry to hear of all you BFN's, it's horrible i know.

Filo x


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Lisa, Katy, Nat and Filo,

Thanks so much for your responses.  

Katy, Short protocol certainly worked better for us this time.  I was so worried after the last attempt ended in being abandoned and not responding - so was a huge relief when I responded pretty well (well, for a poor responder!) and got 9 eggs from one ovary. The whole tx from day 1 to ET was just 2 weeks too.  I'm going to go for August tx but as it's NHS, it's obviously not guaranteed that there will be space, so we may end up cycling together in Oct!  Best of luck and keep in touch xx

Nat - Thx for your message, you've certainly given me some things to think about/look into, ready for next time.  I only had the HCG injection in the 2WW,48 hours after ET I think it was-that's it,to support the lining of the uterus.  I'm not even sure what cyclogest is so will definitely look into this!  Our consultation is 21st July so will make sure I'm armed with lots of questions and hopefully will get some answers for next time.  

Take care and fingers crossed for all

BH xx


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## Kelsey (Nov 8, 2004)

Hi 

*filo* Very sadly, the lady (on S/P) who was given steroids during stims had 9 mature eggs collected, but none of them fertilized with IVF- so she didn't make it to the 2ww this time  The clinic think there is a potential incompatibility problem as fertilization was also low on the previous cycle. She's cycling again in August, but they're going to have ICSI to overcome the fertilization problem. We IVFers don't have an easy ride to we? 

You echo my worries about early bleeding, and the possible link to immune problems- but I find that whenever I've broached the subject of immune issues to consultants they've always been sceptical  I found on an American website www.sharedjourney.com, that there are a total of 14 tests available for immune problems, and I realized I'd only had 2  - anticardiolipin antibodies and lupus (both results were fine).

My previous clinic offered to refer us to the Lister for more tests, despite their scepticism, but I haven't asked about this with my new clinic as they seemed certain than the reason for the early bleeding was that my body was rejecting "non viable" embryo's. This theory is also backed up by the fact that a week after what would have been my test date, and 2 weeks after AF started, I got a very weak positive result on Clearblue, which I was told was a biochem pregnancy as a result of the embryo's implanting albeit briefly.

Ladies I've read about on here that have had immune issues have mentioned having allergic type reactions during the 2ww, like dry throat cough etc. Did this happen on any of your previous cycles?

I've got my fingers crossed you make it all the way this time  HUGE  and hope that this cycle is the ONE  Let us know how you get on- would be lovely to know that you've been successful after having early bleeding on previous cycles 

*BH* Funny you mention HCG for the 2ww, my old clinic was about to change from crinone to HCG. Cyclogest and crinone by the way are progesterone- it's when our levels of progesterone drop that we start AF. Because of all the tx we've had our bodies naturally want to bleed so they give us extra progesterone to help maintain the lining of the womb.

In the Zita West book she advises to eat frequently, during the 2ww, preferably slow releasing carbs, like oat cakes to keep blood sugar levels on an even keel. First cycle, during the 2ww I went hours without eating- and if blood sugar levels drop, the body isn't so able to utilize the progesterone, or something like that anyway!!

Keep us posted how your follow up goes on the 21st  I'm always interested to hear what different consultants have to say about the premature arrive of the old  seeing as she's ruined everything for me twice in a row!

Take Care 

luv Nat xx


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2005)

It's all very complicated isn't it.

I was prescribed the steroids to take from the day of my trigger injection before EC although I have heard that some people are prescribed it during stimming. Very sorry to hear of the lady whose eggs didn't fertilise. I am on 11ww now byt the way.

I haven't had any spotting or bleeding as yet, don't know whether to put this down to the steroids, aspirin or both and maybe it's a good sign...who knows as I have always spotted before af either on tx and without tx. We've always had long protocol aswell.

I had a friend who had a chemical pregnancy IVF this year, she had no bleeding whatsoever but did a test 5 days early (naughty!) which was faint pos but as she was doing more tests the line was still faint so they did a blood test which was low and didn't increase as the days went on. She basically had to sit it out and wait for her af which I think came about 1 week after a proper test date.

I don't remember having dry throat cough etc on 2ww before although I do have a bit of one this time but could be the weather. 

Filo x


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## Kelsey (Nov 8, 2004)

*Filo* I'm keeping everything crossed for you  Day 11's further than you got before without bleeding isn't it? So it sounds like the combination of steroids and aspirin is keeping her at bay 

HUGE  with the testing and don't forget to let us fellow early bleeders know how you got on 

Take Care,
luv Nat xx


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2005)

Yes Nat I will definately let you know how I get on. It could be the combination of the extra drugs i'm taking that is making my uterus more receptive to the embryo or as you say keeping af at bay. So, in the future other 'early bleeders' can perhaps take extra precautions to this effect and have a chat with their consultant. If that's a pos for me anyway! I keep thinking positively about things because i'm not bleeding so that should be good but on the other hand i think well i'm not bleeding because i am taking aspirin and steroids.......

So sorry to everyone with BFN's. Fingers crossed for you all next time.

My af would be due tomorrow (14 days after EC) but i know the cyclogest could be holding it back! I am so nervous for friday.

Good luck everyone and thanks for your kind thoughts.
Filo x


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## Kelsey (Nov 8, 2004)

HUGE  for Friday Filo  
If you tested borderline positive to the NK cells, then the steroids will have lowered your immune systems normal responses making your body more friendly to the little embies  
My friend who took steroids during stims, suffers with really bad hayfever, and it completely dissappeared when she was taking the steroids ! 

Really hope it's a  hun- will give us all some hope 

luv Nat xx


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2005)

Hi

Just to keep all you early bleeders up to date, I did start spotting pinky/brown discharge last night and a couple of times today. It is only when i wipe sometimes (sorry tmi). Af would be due today14 days after EC. Had slight p pain last night but nothing today. Also my bb's are not as sore and i feel perfectly normal. Don't know what to think. Got myself really upset this evening thinking it was all over..poor dh...what he has to put up with.

Guess i'll know friday....

Filo x


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Filo,

Keeping everything crossed for you.  Understandably we can't help but analyse every feeling can we during the 2ww and then get upset and think the worst.  Hang in there and don't give up hope - AF isn't here yet!  

Keep us posted

Very very best of luck

BH xx


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## Kelsey (Nov 8, 2004)

Filo I'm keeping everything crossed for you too that it's implantation spotting 

My SIL lost old brown blood for a day on the day her AF was due when she was pregnant with my nephew. Also my mum bled fresh red blood when she was pregnant with me- and here am! I know it's hard but try not to think the worst- it aint over yet 

HUGE  for the test tomorrow 
Take Care,
luv Nat xx


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2005)

Hi everyone

Thanks for the kind words. Lost some fresh red blood this morning but not much else since. I did a predictor test which of course was BFN. So really am prepared for the worst tomorrow. I know the test the hospital has given me is more sensitive but I guess you just know in your heart when it's all gone wrong. Still no full af though.

Let's see what tomorrow brings.

Filo x


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## Lorri (Apr 17, 2005)

Filo,
Good luck for tomorrow


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2005)

Hi girls

Just to update you, still inconclusive. I ballsed up the hospital test this morning, couldn't get the pipet to work properly and think I overloaded the test by pouring urine into it....so no lines at all showed. Phoned the clinic they said i could get a clearblue one or go down there (they are half an hours away) so decided to do clearblue. Which was BFN. Phoned hospital again who said the although the clearblue is quite sensitive it is not as sensitive as theirs and they don't want me to stop the drugs if i am pregnant and as i haven't had my af yet just spotting!!!! So i'm not allowed to pee for 4 hours and have to go down there anyway to do one of their tests.....it never ends does it!!!! Still no af pains though..what a nightmare!

I'll let you know how i get on later. Thanks for your thoughts

Filo x


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## Kelsey (Nov 8, 2004)

Hope it goes well Filo and you manage to keep your legs crossed for 4 hours 

HUGE  Everything is crossed 

luv Nat xx


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2005)

Just to update you it was a BFN for me, period arriving at the hospital with me I think!!!!

Apparently I can carry on with the baby aspirin as it will do me more good. Perservere naturally until we can do FET as soon as possible. We won't be beaten! Still no af pains which is weird as I would have ovulated 2wks ago!!!

Thanks for all your support.

Filo x


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## Kelsey (Nov 8, 2004)

So sorry to hear that Filo  but sounds like you're a very strong person who's not going to let IF beat you 
At least you know now that the drug regime you took this time kept the early bleeding at bay, which brings hope to all us early bleeders that the old  can be contained 'til test day 

Let's hope the FET is the one and in the mean time  with au naturel  

Take Care,

luv Nat xx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

So sorry to hear your news Filo.  You did get further than last time though which is really positive and a definite step in the right direction! 

Good luck for your next cycle

BH xx


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2005)

Sorry for your BFN BH. Let's hope that August will be our month! Fingers crossed.

Thanks to you and Nat for your kind wishes. BH Good luck for your consultantion on 21st July, let us know what he says or can shed any light on anything. I will ask mine on 20th Aug, he's not free til then. Can't start next round for 2 more cycles cos we're away in Sept but should be able to start the pill in Aug to down-regulate ready for Sept tx. I got a cyst last FET with the Buserilin so they start me off on the pill.

The nurse said that you can actually take your embryos to some clinic in London who can do tests on the embryos to test for quality and the possibilities of them implanting but said it costs 100's of pounds!!!! Also that although they think they choose the perfect embryos to put back or best ones there is no guarantee that they would be the ones that implant or grow properly. She said she has seen cases where the FET has worked because it is less stressful (so apparently stress DOES play a part in all this aswell).

Take care everyone
Filo x


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi all,

Well, had my consultation this morning and I didn't learn much at all about early bleeding after ET (day 10 for me).  She just said that AFs are all over the place after IVF and it was normal..  I stressed the fact that I didn't even get near to the test date, and could it be immune problems possibly?  But she still insisted that it was normal.  So I didn't learn much there I'm afraid.  

As I responded so well to the short protocol (tx abandoned previously on long protocol as poor response), they are putting me back on the long protocol..!?* (this was almost mentioned 'in passing').  I'm not sure what to think about this really.  She said that they have higher success rates on the long one (I think they rarely do the short anyway) and as I responded well (her words were 'you rocketed!') and have FSH of 7.1, they want to try me again on the long.  They were surprised at how well I responded on the short, so maybe the abandoned one was a one off (after all, it wasn't that long after I'd had a couple of cyst aspirations and wasn't feeling on top form).

Obviously I'm worried that I won't respond well again to the long, and then will have wasted more time (I'll be 39 in Sept!).  But, if I insist on the short one and it doesn't work again, will I be forever wondering if the long one would have worked better for me....decisions..decisions...  It's so confusing..

BH x


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