# Help! What would you do?



## foxyangelina (Mar 16, 2005)

Hi everyone 
I'm 46 and have an appointment at the Lister in two weeks time BUT despite an FSH of 7.8 in March, my latest one came back quite high and I've also had a couple of irregular periods. I'm wondering if I'm entering perimenopausal range and if so should I bother keeping my appointment? I'm not ready for donor eggs discussions so is it really worth going? Don't know what to do. Should I cancel or go and speak with the specialist? What would you do? Any thoughts or advice greatly appreciated.
Angie


----------



## Happiness07 (Aug 16, 2007)

Hi Foxyangelina,
I'm 43 yrs old and also at the Lister and I know that FSH is just one indicator. If you've got the energy and drive to pursue with your own eggs then I think give it a go! I'm a great believer in TCM (Traditional Chinese medicine) and have spent the last 5 months trying to get my body into better shape for my 4th IVF attempt . TCM has been proven to improve FSH levels, improve blood supply to the uterus and generally try to optimise egg quality (given that we've still got relatively old eggs). You can do both - iVF & TCM -if you're in London then make an appointment at the Zhai clinic ( 28 Harley street).
Either way don't give up until you've optimised your situation ! Don't want to be overly positive -it's just that there's a lot that conventional medicine doesn't know! I start next IVF bout at the end of July and feel much more optimistic ! You are right that the cons will push you to the donor route ASAP but it might be worth a go once you've had TCM X


----------



## foxyangelina (Mar 16, 2005)

Thanks, Happiness07, I know it's a tough call and a bit difficult to advise on. My partner and I spent all weekend discussing it and we've decided to go ahead with the appointment, at least we'll be speaking with a specialist who will be able to advise us properly. I know that our options are slim and we both feel quite devasted but a consultation is worth a try. I'm going to look up Dr Zhai - thank you for that and for all your help. Are you happy at the Lister? Hope all goes well for you end of July, fingers tightly crossed xx.


----------



## Happiness07 (Aug 16, 2007)

Hi Foxyangelina,
Hope the consultation goes well for you- who are you seeing? I've had a mixed time at the Lister since my blocked tubes (hydros) were picked up until after my third IVF - a real saga but that's another story. Apart from this issue, the care has been good. Dr Wren I found too abrasive (hope you don't see her!) Dr Taylor and Parek are lovely! Dr Abdullah is excellent but too busy ! Think Dr Parek has had IVF herself. Sadly for me IVF is my only hope now since I had to have both tubes removed in September! Dr Zhai has a phenomenal success rate for older women IVF/natural . Anyway I will be on the IVF rollercoaster again and it will be interesting to see what affect the TCM has had. After 5 months of drinking fairly disgusting tea and fortnightly acupuncture - I really hope that I am successful. As an older woman I am also warming to the idea of donor eggs in the not too distant future. My mum surprised me by saying it doesn't matter if I have to have them since the baby will still come from me , out of my belly(this translates a lot more poetically in Panjabi!)
Anyway I wish you well and if you want this baby (one way or another) you can make it happen!!
X


----------



## foxyangelina (Mar 16, 2005)

Hello Happiness07. I'm sorry to hear that you've had such a tough time of it recently but DO hope that the TCM, acupuncture and your strong positive attitude makes your dream come true (and eveyone elses on this forum too). We're seeing Dr Parek, so I'm soooo pleased that you've given her the thumbs up. I'm not sure what's going to happen with us - I am a lot older than you are (fertility years, that is!!) as every year makes a huge difference. However, I'm going to try to stay positive. There are moments when I feel very positive and then times when I feel completely negative about it all. Funny, but my mum said the same thing to me about donor eggs. We're not looking into that procedure at the moment although I'm quite sure that that is what is going to be offered to us at the Lister. Let's see what happens. Thanks again for your help, your closing sentence means a lot. XXX


----------



## Happiness07 (Aug 16, 2007)

Hello Foxyangelina,
I have had a really tough time but so have a lot of women so I still count my blessings! My tubes were taken out after a routine test so I had no pre warning that there was a problem down there , the docs had up to that point just thought I had unexplained infertility due to my age etc. The only positive is that I hope this was THE reason for not conceiving since I always had a great response to the drugs and had PGS to screen for genetically normal embryos. I am positive now but of course if it doesn't work for the fourth time in August , then I'm going to be pretty low again.I'm considering some radical lifestyle changes if it doesn't work, such as unpaid leave from work for a year to dedicate myself to getting pregnant , even if its with donor eggs. Though I, like you, haven't given up on my own eggs. You do have an advantage over me 9 assuming your tubes are ok ?) that you can get pregnant naturally - that's why seeing madame Zhai will really up your chances. There are many many women who are your age and have got pregnant! Keep also focussing on the end goal ( baby) and sometimes unorthodox methods have to be used to get there. How about surrogacy and I'm glad that donor eggs are swimming somewhere in your consciousness . You can and will be a mother but how you get there might be a bit different. I do have self belief because you cannot be on this road without it and I wish that for you and all the women who are trying. A friend of mine said that all her friends who went for IVF were successful IN THE END but with some it took 5 attempts! Considering its around 20% success rate for 40 ish women and it drops much lower for mid 40s , it is still possible to get there .. if not by IVF , then by donor IVF.
Gosh I've ended up on a rant and think I'm convincing myself too. Apologies anyway if it sounded like a sermon!
XX


----------



## foxyangelina (Mar 16, 2005)

Hi Happiness07,
I love your positive attitude, if only you could pass some onto me! I really, really hope that you have success in August - a lot of women do get pregnant after a fourth or fifth attempt. My fingers are tightly crossed for you x. I tried looking up Dr Zhai but couldn't find anything. I will have another search or perhaps find another acupuncturist and give it a go. I know that a few women do get pregnant at my age but most of them have natural conceptions. I don't think that the success rate is promising with treatment for women in their mid-forties using their own eggs. However, it is not impossible. So I'm going to try to keep my spirits high and see what the consultant says next week. Thanks again - best of luck - and I will keep you posted.


----------



## Happiness07 (Aug 16, 2007)

Hi Foxyangelina,
I have worked hard on myself to get to this mental attitude- I have had times of utter bleaksness and futility (feeling like a failure because I can't conceive !). I do believe I will get pregnant but I now accept it my not be with my own eggs but as long as I've had a good bash with my own - intend to have up to 3 more fresh attempts ir 6 in total - then there's not more I can do with my own eggs! If that's is the case and I don't succeed with that method , then I will go for donor because I love children and I will see the baby/babies ( secretly think I may end up with twins !) as my own. Just being with my godchildren is a joy and I didn't give birth to them so imagine a child that you carry to term , how can it not be considered your own?? 
Here's Madame Zhais number - 0207 486 8438 and she is based at 128 Harley street . It is called the Zhai clinic and there's a website which is great to check out! Madame Zhai has successfully treated 46yr olds so it's worth checking out and she will be able to tell if you need to support your body in any way.
Take care and I too will keep you posted - due to start IVF around the 20th July so am beginning to get excited ( it also signifies nearly the end of term for me so I can relax from work for 5 weeks!)
X
I am


----------



## foxyangelina (Mar 16, 2005)

Thanks, Happiness07, I've made a note of the number and will give them a call this week. I still can't find the website - do you have a url? I've heard that chinese herbs shouldn't be used during treatment, do you know anything about this?
This journey is so tough for all of us on here but I'm so glad we've got each other. I'm glad to hear that your hard work had shifted your attitude and that you've become so focused. It's important to believe. Good luck for the 20th and do keep us posted xx.


----------



## SWN (Jun 18, 2008)

Hi foxyangelina and happiness07, just thought I'd add a bit of my story to the pot. I am 45 and we've been ttc for a long time, but "seriously" for about 3 years I suppose.  ( I have more details of my story on the 2ww board).  I tried to do it with my own eggs but in the end decided that donor eggs were the way to go. It was a tough decision and something I agonised about (and still do), but I really felt I had got to the end of the road with my own eggs. I felt (still do to an extent) a sense of failure that I coudn't do it with my own eggs, but once we made the decision I have become really positive about our chances of having a baby, that will be my DH's genetically and mine physically, mentally, and emotionally, if not genetically, if that makes sense. Anyway, I am happy to report that I had ET yesterday and am now on the 2ww and feeling very strong and positive about it all.  I dont think DE is for everyone and I wouldn't probably advocate doing it until you really feel you've exhausted the possibility of using your own eggs, but know that it is at least a viable option for consideration.

Good luck and lots of    for your tx

love SWN


----------



## foxyangelina (Mar 16, 2005)

Hi SWN,
Thanks for your post. Wishing you all the luck in the world - fingers tightly crossed for you.
XX


----------



## Happiness07 (Aug 16, 2007)

Hi Foxyangelina & SWN,
Thanks for all the support - you're right we are not alone and even though we are these cyber people it is still hugely reassurring that there are women who understand! All my close friends have children and everything revolves around them and it feels like they all belong to a club which has exclusive membership - it's not untentional but that's how one feels. 
Foxyangelina Madame Zhai's website is zhaiclinic.com and though in need of updating - it has some great testimonials. She did say that some herbs are dangerous but hers are taken in conjunction with IVF drugs! I must say that it feels healthier to have an antidote like the herbs for those repulsive hormones that we willingly inject into ourselves.
SWN- I too will consider as I've already said donor eggs, because of all the factors that start to make conception at our age a little tricky but I think it is something one has to arrive at , after much soul searching - just as you have and I wish you every success in the world ! 
Being around children I realise that there is a huge love that is not based on genetics but on the quality of relationships one has ! Will keep you all posted and let me know what your next steps are foxyangelina and will say a prayer for you SWN XXXX


----------



## ClaryRose (Jan 26, 2006)

I hope you don't mind my popping in to your thread. I am 44 and had just been matched for donor eggs to start DR this month. It has just been discovered I have a large hydrosalpinx.  It has been advised I have it removed but consultant suggested it may not be straightforward due to any potential scar tissue etc,piercing bladder, etc during surgery and keyhole may not be possible as they never know what state it will be in when they go in keyhole andmay need to open my tummy up completely (sorry TMI!).  

I don't know what to do. Am I really chasing  rainbows because not only am I not using my owneggs (and all those issues) but I am now having to undergo elective surgery (that would notbe required unless I wanted to try to conceive) and still only have a 33% chance of success. Having a child is really important to me but am I just being ridiculous? I am not sure whether just to call it a day and that wetry to foster/adopt - although I know this option is fraught with issues too and a total intrusion into your personal life and your infertility journey.......

You all seem similar ages etc and wondered what any of might actually do in my position.

Thanks for reading this

CR


----------



## Happiness07 (Aug 16, 2007)

Dear ClaryRose,
Good on you for pursuing your dreams and none of us know where this will lead! I too will be 44 shortly in January so the race against the clock is acute I know. I too had two hydrosalphinges and that's why I had to have both of my tubes removed - it can affect implantation by 50% so it's worth having them sorted. 
A good clinic is used to doing this -not sure where you are and whether you have confidence in your consultant but really you mention the worst case scenarios about bladders being pierced etc . I'm at the Lister and they removed both tubes easily and as a day patient and I was back at work 2 weeks later , having had keyhole surgery.It is prob wise to sort ourt the hydro and then proceed to donor eggs. I don't think you should call it a day but it may require serious surgery as you say if keyhole is not possible. Do you have other problems because maybe this is affecting decision about keyhole surgery or not?
Adoption/fostering is also not an easy path and I guess this a test to see how much you want this baby. That's how I see it - I feel like I;m going through the biggest test of my life ...
Best of luck and wishing you a baby SOON !
X


----------



## ClaryRose (Jan 26, 2006)

Hi Happiness - my birthday is January too!

Thank you for your message.  It is just the surgery I am concerned about.  I do not have a gynaeocologist and have been asked by the clinic to find one.  so have phoned a few surgeons secretaries (and without offence they do all seem to have a certain tone ) and will just need to make up my mind from how they are on the phone!  Madness really.  I really could do with some recommendation   

I don't want to give up.  

CR


----------



## SWN (Jun 18, 2008)

Hello Ladies

Thanks for your good wishes, am still on the dreaded 2ww, I will have blood test Weds and will know then whether it has worked - nail biting stuff!  I am a bit fed up at the moment as its been a week since ET and I feel NOTHING.  Maybe some slight consciousness of something different but I think that is probably just my imagination.  Boobs sore, but they said to expect that from the drugs. Anyhow, I guess I just have to sit tight and wait a few more days, am really trying to hold off doing home test, but I can understand why people do it!

ClaryRose, welcome to the thread.  I think you've answered your own question - you dont want to give up - so my advice would be to do everything you can to make this happen.  You may regret it later if you think there's more you could have done.  I've also gone through thinking I am being a bit ridiculous at my age trying to have a baby, but I really dont want to be sitting here in 5 years time thnking I made a huge mistake in not pulling out all the stops. Good luck and lots of   
SWN


----------



## Moth (Apr 17, 2008)

Hi ClaryRose

I agree with SWN, you've obviously already decided what you want to do. I've decided at almost 42, to start tx in the next month or so with my 'oap eggs'. I often wonder why i left ttc so late but underneath  i know that until this year it wasnt something i was ready to do (have obviously been suffering with 'age denial'!). If i don't try at least one ivf tx, i know that in a few years time i will be thinking 'what if...'  and 'why didn't i try just once..' It's a sad fact of life that sometimes we crave the things we're told we can't have. But best not to have any regrets, i'd say choose your gynae carefully, sort the hydros problem and be healthy and ready for those donor eggs!    

Good luck with your treatments.

SWN -   good luck with the 2ww  

Moth x


----------



## Happiness07 (Aug 16, 2007)

Hi ClaryRose ,
I agree with what Moth says. If you are based in london then can you not go to the Lister to have the surgery or do you have to do the whole shebang there ie IVF etc ? It's worth finding out.I had Dr Taylor to do mine and I would thoroughly recommend her!
X


----------



## ClaryRose (Jan 26, 2006)

Thanks Ladies!  So much input and all so positive!!   

I went to a gynaecologist today - who was absolutely wonderful - she told me a few things I had not been aware of though.  That a hydro can  become life threatening - either by becoming 'twisted' or infected.  This shocked me so the sooner it's outthe better. She also said that the toxic liquid can deplete ovarian reserve and destroy the ovaries. So going in for surgery before end of July.

She was also surprised that I was told that I could not have treatment using my own eggs 4 years agowith an FSH of 12.5 at Bath - where I was told to 'walk away' as thechances of responding were so slim.  My scan last week showed all to be working really wellnaturally (except for problem with the tubes) and that I could go to another clinic, and she mentioned theLIster and they woudl treat me with my own eggs.  So alot of mixed, strange and new information.    Anyway, out with the tube and on with my life!  

Fariydust to one and all


----------



## Moth (Apr 17, 2008)

Hi Clary Rose, that's great news - obviously not great about the hydros - but fab that you can go ahead using your own eggs. You sound much more positive - what a difference a different consultant can make - it's unbelievable! Sounds like you picked a good 'un! Lots of info for you to digest!

I wish you all the best for your op and future tx and remember to keep us updated with how you're getting on.

Take care

Moth x


----------



## ClaryRose (Jan 26, 2006)

Thank you    it's true - a good consultant canmake all the difference.  She was so positive that it must have rubbed off!


----------



## SWN (Jun 18, 2008)

Hi Ladies

Just an update....had my test yesterday and got a    ...am thrilled!  Scan in 2 weeks time!

ClaryRose am very glad you've had that confidence boost - good luck with the op and subsequent tx

Moth good luck with yours, I also have been in denial for years, think I'm still 25!  I'm only ready now, which is a bit daft at 45 but some of us are late developers!

SWN


----------



## Moth (Apr 17, 2008)

OMG SWN, what fantastic news - well done!  

I'm so thrilled for you - thanks for posting your news, it's so lovely to hear of bfp's from the more mature ladies  

You take care, wishing you good health and lots of happiness.  

Moth x


----------



## ClaryRose (Jan 26, 2006)

THATS FANTASTIC !!!!  Well done SWN


----------



## SWN (Jun 18, 2008)

Thanks Moth and ClaryRose - I'll keep you posted and please you do the same!      
love
SWN


----------



## Happiness07 (Aug 16, 2007)

Dear SWN,
FANTASTIC NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm really pleased for you !!!
XXX


----------

