# giving to much effection



## skyblu (Sep 9, 2010)

Hi guys, Our 2yr lo has now been with us 6 and a half weeks and has settled well.
She has allways shown us effection with big hugs and kisses, even after just meeting us for 2 days she started giving us a kiss goodbye and giving hugs.
After a few days of moving in we noticed her hugs were getting more demanding and tighter. We thought great she is attaching well and is excepting of us and has never asked for fc's, she has asked on occasions about her sisters but that's it.
She gets on great with my and DH parents and all the family and friends she has met and also gives them a hug and a kiss when they leave.
Today when I left her in nursery she kissed me goodbye as usual and then went to her her teacher and hugged tightly. I thought nothing of it at the time as she has allways been a affectionate child. Then when I went shopping this afternoon I saw a old school friend of mine who knew our story and when I last saw her she knew we ad been matched and was over the moon to finally meet lo. She had her nine year old daughter with her and our lo wouldn't leave the girl alone and was hugging her tightly and as we were saying our goodbyes she wanted a kiss from her which the child happily gave. As I was driving home it was bugging me, is it normal for a 2yr old to be so affectionate to strangers, because that is what they are to her. And also while we were shopping she got her finger caught in the trolley(how she did it, don't ask) I gave it a kiss better like I normally do and at home if she hurts herself mummy,daddy and puppy have to kiss what ever she has hurt better. But after this she was asking everyone we passed to kiss her finger  While everyone thought this was funny I was trying to get her to understand that she shouldn't be talking to strangers let alone asking them to kiss her finger.
Is this normal behaviour? she even hugs the SW when she comes, mind you she does know her 

I like that she is not reserved and seemes confident, she can sometimes be shy for about 10 min's but not very often.
Am I worrying over nothing or is this something I need to nip in the bud and stop.
But saying all that I don't want her feel she can't have hugs and cuddles, just not with strangers  When I say strangers I mean people she doesn't know but I do.

Any advice would be very helpfull.
Skyblu.xxx


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

Hi Skyblu,

I think you're absolutely right to be concerned about this sort of behaviour so early in placement.  It sounds like she's had a lot of contact with people other than yourself and your husband since she was placed.  You also mentioned nursery.  Perhaps so soon into placement it would be sensible to just keep her at home with yourself and your husband so she can get used to you meeting her needs, and then start to add in extra people.  I think most mental health experts who deal with attachment would agree that after six weeks she will not have attached to you, really at that stage you're bonding with her and building her trust in you.  Attachment takes a lot longer than that.  Social Workers have a tendency in some areas to try and tell you that the attachment will start to transfer from the foster carer to the adopters during the introduction period.  Again, the psychologist who helped us with Wyxling, said that's simply not true, and the reading I've done since tends to agree with that.  I think all you can do in that time is build a bond and form trust, and show that the foster carers approve of the move, and it's a good thing, to lessen the blow, and that forming a secure attachment takes months at best.

It's great that she's affectionate with you and your husband, and it sounds like things are going really well for the short amount of time that she's been home, but from what you're describing, I think my gut feeling would be she's only a baby, and it makes sense to take advantage of that and keep her at home with you as much as possible for now, to really build on the relationship.  I think it makes sense to reign in her "affection" with friends and family too.

Just my two penneth, of course.


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## thespouses (Jan 5, 2006)

I have to say I'm quite surprised that putting her in nursery this early is something the social workers supported? I know it's hard to be at home with a toddler full time so perhaps something like a playgroup or stay and play session where mummy is there all the time would suit better?


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## MummyAuntieKatie (Oct 18, 2012)

I can only share from our learnings over the last 18 months, but like Wyxie and thespouses have already said, we learned that it was unlikely we would leave a LO for months, at most we would use stay and play places and start to slowly introduce friends and family but we planned that for at least the first 2-4 weeks we would batten down the hatches and be just us then slowly introduce others for short periods. Hopefully this will build up over several months to form a secure attachment to us and to allow LO to become used to certain significant others in our lives.

It does sound a lot like she is happy with you but not securely attached as the care you give her she is equally happy to get from others.

I'm not sure if some of these books might help? I've been reading the free samples for a lot of them in Amazon and some seem like they might be useful. http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Daniel+Hughes+attachment&rh=n%3A266239%2Ck%3ADaniel+Hughes+attachment


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## wynnster (Jun 6, 2003)

In my opinion you are right to be concerned.  6 Weeks is really early days, she really should be with you 24-7    

She see's everyone as 'safe', after all she went to live with 2 strangers and they turned out ok, she hugged and kissed these strangers so thinks that what she needs to do or can do with everyone. 

I would start again, have plenty of time at home, just you's.  Gradually let others in, nanny and granddad etc but explain the situation to them so that they know if she goes to them for her hurt finger for example, they can say to her 'oh dear, show mummy, mummy makes it all better' Obviously you don't want to explain your situation to everyone so using the meeting your friend situation when dd wanted a kiss, I would of said to dd 'No kisses we don't kiss people we don't know' (or similar).

Stop the kissing and hugging of sw too, they should know better   

I'm interested to know why she is in Nursery?  Especially so soon into placement.......  You cannot redo these very early days    At the moment these early experiences are her foundations for the future, she needs to know that YOU (and only you & dh) are there, completely for her, you are hers and hers alone, and she is yours.  How will she learn that if she is being cared for by others too?

I would completely stop her giving any kind of affection to anyone other than you and dh.  With my dd she had met nanny and granddad about 1 month after she came home but did not hug or kiss them (even hello or goodbye) until a few months in.... 

It will get better as time goes on and she does 'attach' to you


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## keemjay (Jan 19, 2004)

sorry to sound like a broken record but i wouldnt have her in nursery either..i had to go back and re read as i presumed it was 6 1/2 MONTHS not weeks when i read about nursery..
dont listen to sw's if they say nursery is a good idea..most of them havent a clue (hugging sw  ) they arent going to be living with your DD for the rest of her childhood
nothing else to add as all the advice given above has been excellant
kj x


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## skyblu (Sep 9, 2010)

Thank you all for your replies.

Lo is in nursery as she was in a day care placement for 3 days a week from 8.30 - 5.30 since she was 6 months old until the day before she met us.
I have got to say I am a bit shocked that you all seem to think that she shouldn't be in nursery so early in placement. (she is there 2.5 hrs 3 days a week) Myself, DH,SW and health visitor all talked about this before she came to us and after she had been with us for 3 weeks it was agreed by all parties she was ready for nursery as she was missing playing with other children which she was used too and also she was becoming to clingy to me and wouldn't even let DH do anything for her. We managed to get through that pretty easy and she has settled into nursery as if she has always been there. She loves going there. I agree that hugging SW and the teacher is not acceptable, and I will be having a word with the teacher next week and also the SW when I see her next. She sees my mother every day as she is part of my support net work due to my health condition (which SW know about) but will allways come to me if she falls or is upset about anything. I know you will all probely think that attachment is to early yet, but we truly do think she has attached to us, even the new health visitor who we first met together said she would of never have known that she wasn't biologically ours due to the way she was with me. She tells everyone we meet that I am her mummy(or if DH is with us she will say he is her daddy) so I know that she knows who we are.

She is really an easy going child and is so happy.  
When I first read your replies I did feel a little upset that we are not doing right by her, but I know we are as she has come on in leaps and bounds since she has been with us.  For example we have gone from waking up 5 times a night which was normal for her even in placement to now sleeping all night and we have had other issues which I can't really go into, but I know we are doing right by her.
I do agree that the hugging and kissing, even with family will have to stop. This is not something we have not encouraged it is something that she just willingly done. But I will take note about her stopping hugging family and friends and only to hug and kiss us.

Thank you for your replies I do appreciate it even if it does sound like I dont.
Thank you again
Skyblu.xxx


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

Hi Skyblu, I think you're right you need to make your own decisions.

But, I am really surprised that a Social Worker would interpret the sort of behaviour you are describing with you and your husband as being one of good attachment and her being ready to go to nursery.

Health Visitors normally know nothing about attachment, and tend to push everyone to get their newly adopted children involved in things with other children, because that's what they encourage all Mums to do.  Our Health Visitor also told me my daughter was clearly attaching well to me in week one because she displayed that way to someone who didn't really know what they were looking for and when we had other people present.  She was a nice charming child.  She has since said she realises now that was terrible advice (I didn't take it).  It's also been suggested by Bladelet's SW that I will be fine to take him to toddler groups (normally 30-40 children present) when he is first placed with my daughter because he is a sociable child.  Wyxling's SW also said she was fine and I should start taking her to toddler groups, he thought there were no problems outside "normal toddler behaviour" when she was experiencing severe difficulties.  

I guess what I'm saying is that neither Social Workers (oddly) or Health Visitors (particularly) are necessarily the experts you would hope they are when it comes to children attaching to new parents, but at the same time I really hope you are right and that your daughter is attaching to you unusually quickly and a small change solves all.

Best wishes,

Wyxie


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## snapdragon (Jun 27, 2011)

I am 4 months in and take my lo. similar age to toddler group twice a week. He does on occasion go up to the other mums and he even gave one a kiss the other week. One explanation is our lo's have had so many people in their lives being friendly towards them, sw's etc. I don't know really but it seems fairly common. I feel my lo has a good bond with me but I'm not sure I would call it attachment. I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving him at a nursery. I am very surprised your lo was in day care from 6 months, I didn't think fc's could do this. To be honest I agree with the others about it being too early to leave lo but understand why you have done it.


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## keemjay (Jan 19, 2004)

Wyxie said:


> I guess what I'm saying is that neither Social Workers (oddly) or Health Visitors (particularly) are necessarily the experts you would hope they are when it comes to children attaching to new parents,
> Best wishes,
> 
> Wyxie


very good way of putting it Wyxie..

skyblu..dont feel upset hun..you asked the question because you knew deep down this is a bit of a worrying situation..we're here to help you pinpoint where things have gone a little awry..you're doing a brilliant job so far..its just a little tweaking that needs doing 

DD will not, sorry to say, be attached to you yet in a 'secure' way..she is bonding with you and is 'in the process of forming attachments' with you.. which is brilliant but dont mistake it for a secure attachment at this point..there is a long way to go..and you wont realise it until you're a bit further down the line..then, i promise you, you will look back and say 'i get it now'

our DD bonded extremely well to us, was leaning out of the FC's arms to us on placement day, acted like she had known us forever, i probably even proudly said she was 'attached' to us very early on..but i know better now  whilst we didnt have any big problems with her attaching to us...she was happy as a sandboy, slotted in to our life, hugged and kissed (on her terms) ate, slept etc (had to laugh at your HV...our new (dopey) HV also said the same to me when she visited.. that she wouldnt have ever known DD had only been with us 2 weeks)
its only now looking back that i realise that it just took 'time' for those (fragile threads of) attachments to become really solid..and i mean up to 2 years..even now 5 1/2 years in, little things can rock her a bit..if she's feeling fragile she HATES it if you even so much as give a hint of walking off without her..and i mean, just moving off in a shop..she shrieks 'wait' in a panicky voice..she's just not entirely sure i wont leave her somewhere..

i'm amazed a professional would say she was being too clingy..its a brilliant sign  remember to parent her younger than she is..like Wyxie said, treat her as a baby..she is sort of going through her newborn phase with you..you wouldnt put a 6 weeks old baby into nursery (well some people do but those people shouldnt be parents  ) so really really think hard about whether you can meet her need for socialising with other children in a way that can involve you too 

kj x


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## Ruthiebabe (Dec 15, 2003)

Hi skyblu,


Don't be upset, or take offence by what we are saying on here. Adoption is not easy and there are so many decision that we make everyday that for non adopting parents are so much easier than for us. Of course you are going to listen to the professionals that are working with you, so don't feel you have done anything wrong. Having said this I agree with the others, the advice you have been given on this matter is the problem. The health visitor is unlikely to have done any training on atrachment, but like the others m surprised at the SW suggesting this. Maybe gve them a ring and explain what's been happening, and that you've been given some advice from experienced adopters and see what they think??


Parent-child atrachment takes a long time to build, which is what you are seeing signs of with this new behaviour. Our DD had been with us a year when our first Xmas came around and she had me in floods of tears by out of the blue, when I asked her was she having a lovely time, she said "oh yes, am I really staying here for ever?" 


Stay strong and positive, it's all about the journey as much as the destination xxx


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## wynnster (Jun 6, 2003)

Ruthiebabe said:


> Stay strong and positive, it's all about the journey as much as the destination xxx


Love this Ruthie, so true!

Skyblu, honestly honestly I would have said exactly the same as you when I was 6 weeks in with my first, you think the people guiding you, the so called 'professionals' should know best, but, NO-ONE knows what it's like to be an adoptive parent, except an adoptive parent. We are on your side, we're not against you, don't take offence to what we have said it is merely meant as advice, from people who have already been where you are now.

We're here if you need us.


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## skyblu (Sep 9, 2010)

Thank you all for your advice and I have not taken offence.
I spoke to lo FC yesterday and this is how lo has always been "very sociable" which she is.
We had a family day out today with my niece and her three children, who she has never met before.
At first she was a little shy and when my nieces husband tried to talk to her after we had introduced him to her she turned away from him and looked at me and said "no mummy stranger". Pleased she has taken in the chat we had the other day but told her it was o.k because mummy and daddy know him and all the pepole with us and it was o.k. She was playing with my great nieces and nephew within minutes and was having the time of her life. We are very proud of our little munchkin and she is a happy sociable little girl, she kept looking to see if she could see us and sometimes would come up to me or DH saying "Hi mummy/daddy mine having fun" she says mine when she means herself. 
I am not at all worried about her begin in nursery, she is thriving with it and wants to go, even asking if she is going to school on the days she is off and is asking with a smile and a want, not a worried look. If I thought for a minute she wasn't happy then I would take her out and recess things at a later date but she enjoys socialising and playing with other children.
She is a very bright little girl and is way ahead for her age, many people are surprised that she is only 2 as she is tall and speaks so well they think she is 3.

Again thanks for the advice but I do believe I slightly over reacted and after talking to her fc's and friends who have children the same age or near (bilogical and adopted) I now know what she doing is quite normal and just needs to be stranger aware, which after today it looks like it may be working.

Skyblu.xxxx


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## wynnster (Jun 6, 2003)

Lets hope it is just her being a 'normal' child then and nothing to do with the fact that her whole world has been turned upside down then.   

You know her best, of course, but listen to YOUR instincts and NOT everyone else's opinions, including ours.  Your instincts when you started this thread seemed pretty tuned in.


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## Autumn Jade (Aug 29, 2010)

Hi, I just wanted to add we were given similar advice by some very out of date social workers re our eldest- she had also been in daycare a lot almost since birth due to birth family issues and for her it was her 'safe place'. She excelled, she charmed, she befriended and loved everyone there. We were told to keep her routine as close to fc's as poss who had also continued with it (under social skills & education needs) but I am glad our va stepped in and stopped us sending her. She missed out on real family life & experiences and to some extent is quite institutionalised. She missed out on a lot of early experiences and building blocks and it shows. I can only re iterate the advice above by saying how much our LO has benefitted from being at home, and I think keeping her close for as long as possible will protect her from all sorts of issues down the line. Wishing you all the very best, completely understand how hard it must be reading all this advice x


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