# Endometrial Scratching!?



## clark1234 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hey girls. 

after 4 ivf attempts, mc, ectopic pregnancy right tube removed then left tube clipped, we are embarking on our next FET attempt in March 2014. 

I have asked my clinic if I can have endometrial scratching which they have agreed as I'm going private..

So I am just wondering have any of you had this done before, what was the procedure like and any success stories please??  

Also has anyone had embryo glue done before?!? 

much appreciated xxxxx


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## Hbkmorris (Apr 7, 2010)

Hello Clark1234

Sorry to read your one of us that seems to been thrown bad/sad & disappointing cycles. I too have had my left tube clipped and right tube is blocked although neither can be removed due to being stuck to my bowl.  

I have had two endo scratches and they aren't painful at all, they insert a small tool and just scratch the lining so don't worry at all. If you go with it I personally would take 2 strong pain killers an hour before hand just to take the edge off any pain you could have. I've also had a NK cell Biopsy and my goodness that hurt loads only for seconds but enough for me to yelp and I'm not a baby where pains comes into play!! 

Have you ever had your immunes tested? I have and although nothing has come back a problem I do have raised NK cells and they treated me with full immunes drugs last time. That again gave me the same outcome BFN but I shall be sure to do it all over again with my forthcoming last cycle in 2014. I shall also have Embryoscope with my next cycle & before hand a Hysto with the NHS.. Fingers crossed next year is our year flower x

As for endo glue, I was told I could have it but the scratch would be far better and the glue is a gimmick rather than being something that was really beneficial. 

Hope I've helped you.. I may not of had a BFP but we shall all get there if we think positive and push forward.. xx


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## boris3428 (Oct 3, 2012)

Hi clark1234,

I got pregnant after an IVF cycle in April, but sadly it didn't last long. We had frosties, so decided to go ahead and do a FET next. I was convinced it wouldn't work, as the quality of the embryos was lower, and I know that FET success rates are slightly lower at my clinic. BUT I decided that if I did it, I wanted to throw the kitchen sink at it! 

So - we had NK testing done first, which came back as borderline, so my clinic agreed to let me take steroids. I also had the scratch done (although due to a mix up this was done a month too early, my clinic assured me it would still be effective though) which was absolutely fine. I was a bit worried before hand, but it was over SO quickly (15 seconds or less) and very painless. I did have some cramps the evening afterwards, but nothing too horrendous! We also decided to have the embryo glue. I wanted to speak to the embryologist about it first as I haven't seen many studies on its effectiveness and I wasn't sure if it would be worth paying for. She was very positive about it and said that she honestly felt that all clinics would use it as standard procedure soon. She said that if she was cycling then she would definitely want to use it. That was good enough for me! 

It is hard to know which of these things worked for me - maybe we just got lucky with the embryo, but I am now 16 weeks pregnant. 

Good luck with your cycle! 

Jenny xx


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## clark1234 (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks for your replies girls, I'm going to give the scratching a try and ask about the glue...surely somethings got to work soon!!

Yea nbkmorris its so painful to go through these treatments and nothing working, I have good days and bads days,, always try to remain positive tho!

Congratulations Boris3428 hope you have a wonderful pregnancy  

What are NK cells and can my GP do these or does the clinic do it? xxx


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## boris3428 (Oct 3, 2012)

Thanks clark1234!

NK cells are a white blood cell and a component of your immune system. If your levels of NK cells are too high then it can mean that your body is potentially killing off embryos or stopping you from falling pregnant. Have a read of Agate's guide. It is very useful:

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=260560.0

It is unlikely that your GP would do this test for you as it is quite a specialised area of fertility. Not all clinics will do this either. My clinic did, so I went through them. There are a number of different tests that you can have - the easiest is probably the blood test (which I had done) which was about 500 pounds. You can also have a biopsy of your uterus tested, I think - which some may argue is a more accurate test.

This should all be covered in Agate's guide anyway - so have a read through, but feel free to ask any questions.

My clinic didn't feel like it was necessary for me to explore immune issues after just one failed cycle, but I had a feeling something might come up in it, so decided to go ahead anyway. I have tiny amounts of endo, have eczema and rarely get ill - which can all indicate an overactive immune system. I felt like I didn't want to leave any stone unturned anyway, and as a lot of well respected IVF clinics do believe in, and test all of their patients for immune problems, I thought it was worth looking into.

Jenny xx


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## clark1234 (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks Jenny, 

I will give my clinic a call today xxx


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## littlecat83 (Nov 7, 2013)

Hi Clark1234

Sorry to hear about your journey so far : (

I spoke to my embryologist about both of these things recently as we're about to embark on our first ICSI. She said a scratch can be a little uncomfortable but can be helpful in getting things going, especially if you have female factors involved (ours are severe male factor). I think it helps you to shed all of your womb lining before the start of treatment so you have a fresh canvas.

I've heard some success stories with embryo glue but when I asked our (very honest straight talking) embryologist she said they trialed it and didn't see much of a difference in success rates. They do order it in for people at £200 a go but she cautioned me that for that much money it won't make much of a difference.

The thing that really is making a difference is the new embroscopes and time lapse photo monitoring equipment - does your clinic have this?

littlecat x

Hope this helps xx


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## clark1234 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hi Littlecat83

Thanks for your reply, We have one frozen embyro left on the NHS so we are trying that next and if no joy we will be doing the embroscopes and time lapse photo monitoring. (hopefully don't get to try this new thing out) 

xxx


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## littlecat83 (Nov 7, 2013)

Good luck and hopefully 2014 will be your year : ) All fingers and toes crossed for you!


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## clark1234 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hopefully    

I have just spoke with my clinic who don't offer NK testing...but seem to think I may have had most of these done by my GP a few years ago and supposedly if they've been done there likely to be the same now. 

I spoke with the private hospital GCRM Glasgow just now who think I should maybe ask for Clexane Injections during treatment,,(it thins the blood to help with embryo sticking) anyone heard of this? 

Question Questions lol xxx


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## Hbkmorris (Apr 7, 2010)

Clark, 

I've taken Clexane which is part of the immunes drugs. You inject into the tummy as normal and yes it thins the blood out. My thoughts would be to see where you can have the NK cell Biopsy done or blood test done as this will then decide if you require steroids which are tablet form (again I've had these). 

The GP's won't do any of the immunes testing on the NHS (I also tried this with two doctors, they even took 8 vials of blood from me and low and behold the results were returned saying unable to test!) this is due to the costs. You will have to pay private for them and if I was I'd really look at having them done.. peace of mind if nothing else. 

I've spent £30,000 and had 5 cycles in total knowing what I know now I wish I'd had them all checked before I'd spent so much money xxx


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## clark1234 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hi 

When I spoke to GMRC and Dundee Ninewells today they both said that the Immune tests are quite expensive and not really worth it!?! But GMRC said due to me having 4 failed treatments they would put that it the category "recurrant miscarriages" so advised me to try the Clexane anyway?!?

Honestly I feel like banging my head off a brick wall sometimes...I wish all specialists would sing from the same hymn sheet!!!!..make all our life so much easier..

xxx


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## boris3428 (Oct 3, 2012)

Hi,

Yes - it is frustrating that all clinics do not seem to agree! There is definitely a split opinion in terms of immune testing. 

For me, I felt like I wanted to cover everything, and coming from an 'unexplained' diagnosis, I always felt like there was something going on .. it just hadn't been 'explained' yet. 

Frustratingly, I think you have to do your own research and decide whether you want to go ahead with testing, and if you do, find somewhere that will do it for you. 

One of the things that persuaded me to do the test (which as you say, isn't cheap) was that a lot of the very good clinics are very into immune testing and get very good results. Ultimately though - I suppose I was searching for a reason for my infertility, and I felt like I hadn't been properly investigated until I had done this testing too. 

If you did have immune issues then you would probably be given steroids, clexane and possibly intralipids. Maybe it would be worth asking your clinic if they would be prepared to give you steroids alongside the clexane for your next cycle without doing the testing? Some clinics will treat empirically without you doing the test. (I had borderline immune issues and was treated with steroids alone). 

xxx


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## clark1234 (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks Boris I will contact the clinic and go and have a chat with them.xx


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