# 43 and scared :( please even just say hi



## Lilycome (Dec 17, 2014)

Hi everyone, I've posted this in the newbie thread but thought it probably belonged in here too...

I'm feeling very alone and afraid, and I'd really appreciate some support, or even just a virtual hug and some baby dust please.

I'm 43 and a quarter, and therein lies the problem.  I've spent most of the last few years of my life in abusive relationships, culminating in a guy trying to strangle me last year.  I guess it was the wake up call I needed as I went into therapy, tried to become stronger, and 6 months ago met a lovely, kind man that I'm really happy with.  He is 41.  

We have only been trying for a baby for a couple of months but I recently got my AMH tested and it's thrown me into a panic, as it was only 6.6.  Five years ago it was 22.5, and it's not supposed to decline that fast. (I have a biology degree and I've read the studies!)  My FSH was 13.2, so again, not good.

The worst thing is, because I'm 43, no clinic will see me, or even talk to me, for free!  They all want several hundred pounds for an initial consultation, and I'm confused about which one to choose/what to do next.  My GP is really supportive but couldn't interpret my results.  I live in Bristol, and the only options seem to be the Centre for Reproductive Medicine at Southmead, Spire Hospital, or Create (who do 'mini IVF' which doesn't have as good results).  Should I just phone Southmead and make a paid appointment?  Does anyone have any experience of either clinics in Bristol or of trying to get help and advice when you are past the NHS cutoff age?

I'm reading voraciously and find this website really helpful.  I'm keen to start on DHEA but realise I need to check my free androgen index and DHEA index so I've just had blood tests done for those a couple of days ago.  (How do I find out my correct dosage if my androgen/DHEA levels are normal?) 

My boyfriend has been really lovely and is going for sperm testing soon.  Meanwhile I'm taking a pre-conceive vitamin (Vitabiotics), flaxseed oil, royal jelly, bee pollen, Ubiquinone, Vitamin D and a powder (like fertiligreens, with wheatgrass etc., in it) every day.    I'm also taking agnus castus (vitex) for the first 14 days of my cycle, plus Chinese Medicine prescribed herbs.  I have a very stressful job so I'm just starting acupuncture.  We use Preseed when having sex before and during ovulation (days 11-13).

I have very regular 27 day cycles with ovulation on day 13 like clockwork (I've measured it the past 3 years).  Does this count for absolutely anything?  I'm slim, exercise a bit every day with my dogs, and have never smoked.  Never had any health issues, STDs etc.  The Chinese herbalist told me not to worry, that I'm very healthy, but I feel very upset and that the child I've dreamed of my whole life is not going to happen because I've left it too late, being stupid staying in bad relationships.  :*(

I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts on my chances of getting pregnant, with my AMH/FSH and age? 

Also what to do next in terms of healthcare professionals and if there is anything else at all I can do to increase my fertility?  I'm categorically not interested in donor eggs - if I'm going to put my body through all that, I want it to be genetically mine, and I guess I would adopt if I had to but it's just not the same... I hope you understand?

Is there a support group in my area I can join? Would anyone be willing to meet up with me for a coffee and a chat perhaps?

Thanks for reading this. Sorry this is such an emotional first post.  x


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## EssieJean (Aug 11, 2011)

Hi Lilycome.. I didn't want to read and run and I don't have any experience re: OE/ovulation cycles but wanted to send you huge     I'm sorry you've had a tough time of it but I know you'll find lots of support on FF.

I do know there are plenty of women who've been successful with OE in their 40's so please don't give up hope. You seem to be taking good care of yourself, taking supplements, alternative therapies etc and healthy.  With the right care I can't see any reason why you shouldn't fullfill your dreams.

I'm sure there'll be someone on soon who'll be able to answer your questions/concerns.

I wish you all the luck in the world, sending an abundance of     

Essie xx


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## Lilycome (Dec 17, 2014)

Thank you dear Essie, hugs and reassurances much appreciated, hugs right back atcha. xxxx

(I can't do your beautiful graphics, sorry!!!)


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## flappy_godmother (May 29, 2012)

Hi Lilycome,

I didn't want to read and not reply.  Whilst I,m 32 I know of many women in their mid 40s who have had cycles and success.  The one thing I would say through out the whole process is keep an open mind.  You hear stories of women who have gone through all the treatment to feel disappointed that they haven't produced lots of eggs but it only takes 1.  I'm sure there will be plenty of women who would be able to share their success stories on here.  This forum is a great place for advice and support.  This really does feel like a terrifying scenario to go through (and I say that even after having success) but there are so many of us out there who want to offer you a friendly hello, support and a laugh when you are having a tough day.

I currently see an acupuncturist too and I really believe that by getting your body and mind in the right place is such an important factor.  Take stock of what you have got, a supportive boyfriend, a regular cycle, and ovulating. You are healthy, and slim which is ideal.  
I would suggest you get an initial consultation at one of your local clinics, they will be better to interpret results that a gp.  It might be worth posting in the south west section for some advice as to where to go and other ladies opinions in the area.  I'm sorry I'm not local to recommend groups but if the clinics are like mine the waiting room is Adorned with local support groups.
Best of luck my lovely, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.  
Ps I think you are brave and strong to come out of a difficult relationship so you deserve this happiness.

Katie x


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## flappy_godmother (May 29, 2012)

Just read that back and realised I lied about my age, I'm 34 next week certainly not 32!!! Whoops


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## deblovescats (Jun 23, 2012)

Hi LIly
Welcome - just wanted to say hi and good luck. I'm sure you'll find support on the forum - I've found various threads useful in my journey. I don't know about OE cycles - decided to go straight to DE as I was 45 when first cycling and as I was having to fund myself (and I'm single) I wanted the best chance of getting a baby. I'm 47 and was successful on 3rd DE IVF attempt after changing clinics. I know you're definitely against DE, and you've got time to try OE - but maybe you could think about DE in the back of your mind just in case. If you're willing to consider adoption, why not think about DE further down the line  - that way, although it wouldn't be genetically yours, an adoptive child wouldn't be, and you'd get a baby, whereas with adoption, you'd probablyl have to go for a toddler/older child.
However, you need to be comfortable with your decision
Sounds like you're doing your best to increase your chances. 
Deb


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## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

hi - at 41 i was in a flat panic when i was told i needed IVF and the NHS wouldn't help me. 
Looking back, that money we spent on that first consultation (the first step in a tough journey) was some of the best money we ever spent. 
i'm now 44 with a chubby 8 month old baby, (from a high dose ICSI cycle) looking forward to christmas. 

it is daunting and you may have to spend out on a few consultations if you are not happy with the first one, you might have to get two or three. But it is just something you have to do because the alternative is a lifetime of not knowing. Stop thinking about how unfair it is (it is, ghastly unfair) or about your age (can't change it!) and just go through the process a step at a time. Good luck!


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## deedee_spark (Aug 6, 2014)

Hi,

I have similar path to you. A violent past and a very bright future. 

It may not feel like it at the moment, but the NHS doesn't have the best fertility treatment (funding obviously). So be thankful, you won't be stressed by their delays. 

I just bought a book called 'It's starts with an egg'. It has some useful advice that I am starting to follow. Apparently plastics - BPA's are no good for egg quality. It's worth having a look through this or another source if you choose IVF (although your vitamins look great). 

A great book for you getting naturally pregnant at 43 is Inconceivable by Julia Indichova. 

Making babies is quite a good book as it helps identify any areas that may need work. 

I would recommend paying out for tests. Bacterial infections (NHS) and private, Thyroid + thyroid antibodies (NHS info is out of date so make sure you get a copy of your results to check online), uterus scan, semen sample, and bloods (that you have already done). 

There are plenty of people who get pregnant at your age. It just might take a few more vitamins. 

Don't panic though. You can get there, and we're all sending you baby dust.

xx


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## Lilycome (Dec 17, 2014)

Gosh, what lovely people you all are.  Tears in my eyes again, but good tears, happy tears!  Thank you SO MUCH for all your incredible help and support.  It's so wonderful and such a huge relief not to be alone in this any more!  I've been so frickin' emotional and not knowing what to do with it all!

Much love and baby dust to you all too.

xxxx


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## Blondie71 (Oct 26, 2011)

Thank goodness you are alive to tell the tale Lily, no need to beat yourself up about the past, there is no future in the past, live in the present and you will be just fine! 

Have a good look around this site at the options open to you including clinics abroad particularly Greece, Czech and some Spanish clinics as they tend to be much cheaper than UK and success rates are often better due to various factors, knowledge is power in this game.

Best of luck x


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## BroodyChick (Nov 30, 2009)

Sounds like you're doing all the right things- your test results are only numbers and whilst you may wish to reduce your work stress as much as possible and keep an open mind about visualisation etc, don't put yourself into a wild panic just yet...
I have a number of friends pregnant in their 40s (some after quite
A bit of treatment some naturally), and even a friend who's 57 with a 3 year old (DE/DS).
You have the most important ingredient which many of us are lacking: a man who is hopefully fertile, so just keep doing the baby dance and best of luck!

I firmly believe whilst there is that magic ingredient nobody can control we all end up with the child meant for us x


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## CrazyHorse (May 8, 2014)

Lily, I'm glad that you survived your abusers and have had the strength to get yourself into a better place. Do not waste time and energy making yourself feel bad about past relationship choices -- you are here now, with a partner who is treating you well and wants to have a baby with you!

Your AMH is much better than that of many ladies on this board. My AMH was 1.8 in April, and I am now pregnant from an IVF cycle where a single egg was collected. 

Obviously, the main issue for those of us who are 40+ is the high percentage of our eggs that are chromosomally damaged and unable to form a viable embryo. There are a couple of schools of thought on how to deal with this. The dominant view is to produce as many eggs as possible with high doses of stims, in order to maximise the odds of getting a few good eggs; but there are some very credible fertility specialists who believe that these high doses of stims have a negative impact on egg quality, and that it does you no good to produce lots of eggs if the individual eggs are less likely to produce healthy embryos. Also, paradoxically, many older ladies do not produce more eggs in response to very high doses of stims than to more moderate doses. I wouldn't dismiss the Create mini-IVF approach out of hand given your age -- it really depends on how you respond to stims, and you won't know that until you attempt an IVF cycle. 

My clinic took the high stims approach, but they cap their maximum dosage of stims lower than many clinics do. I had 100% fertilisation across the 2 cycles that went to egg collection, so clearly my egg quality didn't suffer too much. However, if my fertilisation rates had been poor, I would have looked into mini- or natural IVF. 

I really recommend CoQ10 (ubiquinol) as a supplement for improving egg quality. Quite a few clinics actively put their patients on it. Mine did not, but I took 200 mg a day for several months prior to my successful cycle, ramping up to 400 mg a day during stims. It's a fairly risk-free supplement, and it's a good idea for TTC naturally as well. 

Wishing you lots of luck!


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

You've had lots of good advice here and hopefully feeling 'heard' has helped you feel a little better. I don't think there's any way to avoid the costs unfortunately,0if you do, let us all know!  CREATE do a fertility mot and I had an initial consultation there even though opted to go elsewhere. Over the bridge in Wales is a clinic called CRGW that has a good rep but is cheaper than CREATE. Both do the mild IVF which does have some success with women 'of a certain age' (God don't you HATE that term!) who respond poorly to traditional IVF

Having read your post (not all the replies sorry) I would urge you to read around epigenitics and chromosomal crossover. Helped me get my head around donor eggs a lot better although for my own satisfaction I have to try my own once more first. Hopefully I won't need DE but if I do, hopefully I can afford it!

Good luck with it all   xx


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## Kitty71 (Apr 14, 2010)

Check out CRGW in Llantrisant which is about a ten minute drive from cardiff so in the scheme of things not too far from you. Wonderful staff and good prices. Even before you have a consultation you can email them with a few details and they will reply.


Wishing you much luck. X x


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## Lilycome (Dec 17, 2014)

Thanks again for all the kind, caring and informative replies.  I feel so much better already.  I don't have much of a family so I was struggling a bit with not having anyone to share with. It's obvious I've found some very lovely people here who DO understand what I'm going through which is a huge relief.

I'm going to get all the books recommended, and I already have the Zita West and Randine Lewis books to read over Xmas.  I got in touch with Serum in Greece today and was very impressed at their prompt reply.  I have friends I can stay with in Athens and they do seem cheaper than the UK, so I will probably go for my consultation and ultrasound etc here then maybe go there if I do need IVF.  

It's been really helpful going on the chat board last night and learning a bit more about the processes, there is just so much to take in and try to understand!

I'm already on the ubiquinol (300mg) and went to see my acupuncturist today.  She made me feel so much better!  

Anyway, enough waffling, my heart goes out to all of you who have been trying for a baby, I know how awful the 2WW is and getting the BFN.  I hope your kindness towards me is rewarded with your heart's desire.  

xxxxx


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## deblovescats (Jun 23, 2012)

Thanks Lily and good luck with your treatment. 
I'm so grateful to have my darling little son.
Deb


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## Mrs.F (Nov 4, 2013)

Hi Lilycome. Glad you survived the attack and doubly so that you went and had therapy.
My AMH was also lowish, but the FSH was good, so we finally got the positive test.
I saw that the other girls have already recommended taking Ubiquinol, to which I will add Maca to help balance the hormone levels, royal jelly for good egg quality and metformin for the same. I was perscribed metformin and it worked excellent for me. Maybe you can have a consultation with your doctor about it?
What I would recommend is to start exercising ' min 1h a day. It will do wonders for your overall health.
Hope you find your doctor/clinic really soon and your dream comes true  
Head up pricess, dust yourself off, straighten the crown and go ahead!


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## CrazyHorse (May 8, 2014)

A word of caution about metformin -- it is only useful if you have insulin resistance, which is common in women with PCOS. If you are not insulin-resistant, taking metformin will only expose you to its side effects, with no fertility benefit.


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## churchmouse41 (Jan 10, 2014)

Oh, you poor love! It sounds as though you have been through the mill and have achieved an awful lot over the past year or so that you should be immensely proud of.

A comment on Create (I am 42 and 25 weeks pregnant with a Create baby). I don't think it is as simple as saying mild IVF doen't have such good results - they are treating a different pool of women generally older and with a low AMH and so, sadlly, the results reflect that. I think you will find that Create do free open days/evenings which you might find helpful to better understand their philosophy? Not that I am in particular pushing Create as, like a lot of clinics, it was sometimes a bit frustrating. I'm just saying have a look and read into what they do and why before closing that door. 

And you really shouldn't be so hard on yourself. We all make decisions we regret with hindsight - just because now you can see it might have been better to do something different doesn't mean that was an option for you at the time. I mean, I have been in a relationship with a lovely, lovely man for many (many!) years yet it was never the right time for the baby thng until it was very nearly too late. I've spent a lot of time over the past year being upset about that but ultimately that has achieved nothing apart from buckets full of tears and a huge expenditure of emotional energy!

I wish you all the best and do PM me if you'd like a 'chat'.

xx


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## louisenburton (Nov 21, 2012)

Just wanted to say good luck to you. 

I'm 37 and when we started this which was two and a bit years ago my Amh was lower than yours. I didn't qualify for any nhs treatment either. That annoys me so much. 

Another clinic I've heard good things about is in Prague and I'm sure it's called the cube 

I'd agree with what's been said about going for initial consultations. Many clinics take that off your cycle if you decide to go with them

With regards to additional 'help' just make sure you read up about them. I'm a medical person and I like things to be scientifically proven and sadly not a huge amount is - considering what's on offer... There is always lots of stories about this worked for my friend etc. I think it's just about being happy with what you decide x


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## Mrs.F (Nov 4, 2013)

CrazyHorse said:


> A word of caution about metformin -- it is only useful if you have insulin resistance, which is common in women with PCOS. If you are not insulin-resistant, taking metformin will only expose you to its side effects, with no fertility benefit.


That's not true Crazyhorse. I have neither insulin resistance nor PCOS and I was perscribed Metformin by my doctor. BUT, as I said, it is better to have it perscribed after a consultation with a doctor.


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## CrazyHorse (May 8, 2014)

Mrs.F, I'm sure your doctor is doing right by you (and congratulations on your pregnancy by the way!), but all published research I have seen on metformin only indicates benefit to ovulatory response for PCOS and/or insulin-resistant patients. It has some benefits for lowering androgen levels, but that's usually associated with PCOS. Do you know if your doctor is aware of research not yet published showing benefit in female infertility that doesn't involve PCOS, insulin resistance, or abnormal androgen levels? If so, that would be very interesting for us older ladies in particular.


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## StartedLate (Sep 17, 2014)

Hi Lillycome
I was 43 and 44 when I had my rounds of OE IVF at a London clinic with a good reputation for older patients. I can't remember my amh, but doctors were all very positive it was okay and my general health is very good. I took DHEA but no other supplements or therapies. On both rounds I had over 10 eggs and in each 8 were mature enough and all fertilised with DH (5 years younger) sperm using mix of icsi and ivf. Both times I had good quality 5 days blastocysts - 2 and 3 transferred respectively. First time I had a chemical pregnancy and second BFN. 

Between the two rounds I tried so hard to get as much understanding of what the chances of a live birth were for 43-44 y/o but it proved impossible. The HFEA don't collect that data and nor do individual clinics, so you only get an idea of how many make it to a heartbeat which I think was about 1-2% when I was looking. (Note that European clinics often give success rates for positive urine test which bolsters their numbers.) We're probably talking about hearing a heartbeat at 6=8 weeks, so there is still a way to go before getting over the 'magic' 12 week stage. If I remember, the figures for 41/42 are double those for 43/44, so 40s is not all equal. 

Looking back there are two things that I wish I'd known / considered. 1. I have often wondered if I was over-stimulated and if I'd have been lucky if I'd had fewer eggs with possibly better quality, this is reflected in some of the other responses you have had and worth delving into and 2. I think I would have gone abroad and not paid exorbitant prices here. My clinic had a good reputation, but it was a very conveyor belt experience.

I decided to quit after the two rounds and looked into adoption and DE and decided DE was the route for me. But making that decision is quite different when you feel that OE is closed down and you're not at that stage yet and you might just be very lucky and succeed with OE. Good luck.


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## Blondie71 (Oct 26, 2011)

Startedlate I was like you and responded well (17 eggs on both colections - 2 diff clinics) so I def think it's your body that is able to produce that many eggs as I've seen many younger women on same protocol and they have not produced that many, simply because they don't have that reserve   however egg quality unfortunately is what it is basically age deterioration I'm afraid and that can't be remedied (yet). 

I was lucky enough to get pg and it was with an egg that split most likely due to it being poor quality according to everything I've read, thank goodness boys were born perfect.

x


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## PopPop8 (Sep 13, 2013)

Hello
I'm so sorry and know how much the panic sets in when you feel as though time is running out when you're in your 40s.

There are some stats on the HFEA website for 43-44 year olds - definitely seen some for ARGC anyway and Lister I think. They aren't too good though, but there is hope and everyone is different. 

I managed to get pregnant at 43 (and a half!) and now have a 21 month old daughter. It was cycle no7 though and we used savings and had some help from relatives. Who knows why I got there on this cycle vs one when I was younger. I think various supplements helped improve my egg quality (coq10, bee pollen, fish oil and inositol in particular), ivig and steroids sorted out my immune system (although I had this on the previous two cycles too but maybe these eggs just weren't lucky ones), also Clexane. I also had antibiotics after my hysterocopy which I think may have helped.

Re DHEA I've read you shouldn't take if you are a good responder. If you produce lots of eggs (polycystic tendencies or PCOS) there is evidence that inositol can help improve egg quality. However, you won't know this until you've done a cycle.

I think hope is extremely important. I remember feeling very down when cycling, old and hopeless then found another girl waiting next to me for a scan - she was 43 and 7 weeks pregnant. I felt so lifted by that glimmer of hope. If she could do it - so could I! Keep believing in yourself x


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## Mrs.F (Nov 4, 2013)

Crazyhorse, I don't know where my doctor (my rep.gyn.) has his information from, but I decided to trust his expertise on the matter. The last I heard from him was again in connection with the metformin and taking it throughout the pregnancy. He said that american studies show that taken by women, especially over 40s, helps avoid gestational diabetes which is very likely to develop later on in pregnancy. European scholars, he says, do not entirely agree with this idea. I haven't done any more research on the topic, but I stopped taking the metformin after I got the positive test.


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## Lilycome (Dec 17, 2014)

Hi again everyone, I was away all over Xmas with BF so it was lovely to log on and read all your posts (old and new!) this evening.  

Thanks so much for all the help.  I feel so much better just knowing that you are all here.  It's amazing.  I actually think it might make the difference between me being able to conceive/not being able to, because I'm just that little bit more relaxed, knowing I'm supported by people who understand.

Anyway, little bit of good news, we did a home sperm test and BF's sperm count is normal.  His GP is absolutely rubbish and despite 3 visits have still not done the referral to his local hospital to get the full test done.  Daily phone calls from me starting tomorrow should sort that out 

In other good news, I had my AMH re-tested in early December.  This was a month after I started my vitamin protocol etc.  And it seems to be working as it went up from 6.6 to 9.6!  Still pretty low but maybe if I keep on my healthy regime it will go up further.

I'm on my 2WW, it's so hard, I feel like my period is gonna start any day now.  Did a test this morning and got an extremely faint line, but I can't tell if it's an evaporation line or the real thing.

I'm on chinese medicine herbs, and I was taking 300mg of Ubiquinol but found it gave me terrible insomnia so stopped (back to CoQ10 ubiquinone which I'm fine with).  Also, I was ovulating like clockwork on day 13 but this last month it was day 15, so I don't know if the chinese herbs/ubiquinol have given me a longer cycle.  Anyone had this experience with either of these things? I think I've read that longer cycles are better for fertility so fingers crossed if I don't manage it this time, there's always next month... sigh.

I'm going to an open evening at BCRM this Thurs so hopefully I'll at last be able to get some info.

Love and baby dust to you all. xxxx


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## Blondie71 (Oct 26, 2011)

Wow Lily when is AF due?? maybe the line is real   did you use a first response test? I only ever used a clear blue digital just cos I wanted to see "pregnant" or "not pregnant" as I HATE lines


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## bundles (Jul 16, 2011)

Your line sounds hopeful Lily   It really can depend on what sticks you use, the less sensitive ones always come up late, but I've always found a line to be a line


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## Lilycome (Dec 17, 2014)

Hey ladies, after reading Blondie's comment I rushed out and bought a First Response test.  I tested this morning and a very definite line came straight up!  The faint line is still there on the less sensitive test too.  I can't believe it.  I'm 4 days late (I'm never late!) and scared each time I have to go to the toilet in case Aunt Flo is there!!!  

I know there is so very much that can still go wrong so I'm honestly just kind of numb and struggling to believe I might actually be pregnant.

Please please everyone keep everything crossed for me that this works out.

Much love and baby dust to you all. x


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## bundles (Jul 16, 2011)

Yay Lily   Congratulations that's lovely news xx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Oh my God!!! Everything crossed for you!!    xx


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## Lilycome (Dec 17, 2014)

Thanks lovelies, I really don't dare believe it!  If this is successful I will be sure to share my 'protocol' with you all as I did most of what was in Angelbump's protocol and a few more things besides   If I really am pregnant at my age then I must have done something right! xx


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## Blondie71 (Oct 26, 2011)

oh wow congrats certainly sounds the case   brilliant x


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## Sammi11 (Sep 30, 2008)

Hi Lilycome,

I've just seen your post, very late i know, and i don't have time to read everyones replies to you, so maybe some one has already posted this info - i live in bristol too and i went to the wonderful CRGW in wales its a 1hr drive. they are the best clinic i have ever been to, amazing. alot better than i found southmead when i first cycled there 5years ago.

anyway, i'm 5months pregnant - haven't been on here for months, so my signiture isn't updated.

Best of luck
pls pm me if u want any more info

Sammi x


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## MyreiE (May 5, 2014)

Congrats Lilycome! crossing fingers, eyes and toes for you! 

-M


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## BroodyChick (Nov 30, 2009)

Yay!!!


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## BabyG2015 (Jan 16, 2015)

Congratulations Lilycome...... 

Lovely to read so much positivity.  I am a newbie here since yesterday and it's already clear there is much support on this site and many stories with happy endings!


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