# Angry, scared and simply don't know what to do now



## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

So, just got official BFN on 4th IVF and I need somewhere to get my feelings out and to try and work out what next. 

As the title says, I'm furiously angry (why me? why does everyone else get pregnant relatively easy and this has to be so hard for me, what have I ever done to deserve this? etc etc) and very scared (what if it never works and I just can't have children? what would be the point of my life then?) and I don't know what to do. 

So this is a rather self indulgent outpouring (if I had a blog I guess I could put it there, but since I don't....) and I'm not at all asking for replies or even hugs - this is more for me if you see what I mean. After the ERPC in October I did something similar and looking back it was very cathartic, so let's see if pouring it all out here helps again.

If anyone wants to share their thoughts and offer any suggestions on how I can move forward, that would be lovely - but don't feel obliged in any way, I think I just need to get this out of my head (and I don't want to do it with friends and family because as lovely as they all are about this, they really don't understand what this is like)

I suppose compared to some of you lovely FF ladies, my journey has been relatively short so far.  It was about 18 months ago when I decided I couldn't wait any longer for Mr Right and to go it alone. I'd been on holiday with my sister again, and we'd had a fantastic time as usual but when it came to talking about the next holiday I just realised that I wanted a baby more than another holiday and if I didn't do something about it, it wouldn't happen. It's not as if I hadn't been thinking about it for ages, but I just suddenly realised it was time to do something about it. 

Got home, made appointments, did lots of reading, found the fabulous single girls here on FF who helped so much with information and support in the early days (and who continue to help me get through this every single day - thanks girls  ). Had all my tests, ticked all the right boxes - FSH nice and low, tubes all clear, ready to go.

Had my first IUI in January 2008, a couple of months before turning 38. Now I didn't think it would work first time, but I was disappointed when 3 IUIs didn't work and decided to move on to IVF whilst I still had time and money in hand. I really thought that IVF would work - after all I was only just 38, test results all great, no reason why it wouldn't right? Perhaps this was rather naive, but it does seem that IVF works first time for many around that age, and I didn't see why it shouldn't work for me - especially as all results good and nothing apparently wrong (not to mention a sister with 3 kids of her own, and being one of three myself - no problems with fertility in our family you'd think)

First IVF in April/May, second in June/July. Good response, lots of eggs, good fertilisation, only average quality but both times at least two grade 1 embies to put back. Started bleeding well before test day on both cycles...looking back I should have pushed harder after the first one for a more agressive protocol post transfer but LWC were insistent it was just bad luck first time round and saw no reason why it wouldn't work 2nd time round. Lucky enough to get 3 frosties from second cycle, so FET in August - 2 good ones put back...on gestone this time, as well as clexane/aspirin and amazed to test positive 5 days before official test day. 

The overwhelming feeling was one of relief - that I'd done it, that I wouldn't be childless any more,that I could at last join the club all my friends and most of my family are already happy members of. There were 4 of us on the single girls board who all got positives at about the same time though, so I couldn't help worry - if 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage then chances were one of us was going to get bad news. 

And of course it had to be me didn't it? At 7 week scan the signs were bad, baby too small for dates and heartbeat weak and thready. After a week of not knowing for sure, the follow up scan confirmed no development and the ERPC was 
scheduled and carried out.
I did a lot of crying afterwards, and still do from time to time, but mostly I just felt, and feel, angry. Why did it have to be me? Why couldn't things just work out for a change? And why, when everything looks so good in terms of the tests etc, does this have to be so hard? And as much as I am happy for the others, I'm so so angry and bitter that I was the 1 in 4 with bad news, and I hate myself for feeling like that, but I can't help it. 

Anyway, picked myself up (more or less - not sure you ever get over a loss like that, but you learn to live with it somehow) and planned another cycle. Decided to change clinics and head to the Czech Republic - partly for financial reasons and partly 
just for a change. 

It wasn't the easiest of starts what with bleeding through the pill and trying to manage timing around the clinic Christmas closure, having lots of hassle with the prescription etc, but all seemed to be going well at the first scan in the UK - lots of good sized follicles.

At egg collection only 8 eggs collected. Now to those of you who only get 2 or 3 eggs usually this probably sounds great, but compared to the 21/20 eggs on the previous cycles I was worried. Good fertilisation with 6 eggs fertilising but by day 5 only 2 'early' blasts and the rest not good enough to freeze. So I was pretty sure it wasn't going to work right from transfer if I'm honest. 

And so here we are on official test day with another negative. 3 IUIs, 3 fresh IVF, 1 FET, one miscarriage/ERPC, approx £20,000 lighter, at least a stone heavier, 18 months of appointments, tests, procedures, missing holidays and other social events etc etc -  and still childless.

And angry, so angry. Why is this happening to me, why is it so hard? How come almost all of the single girls I started this journey with are pregnant now, and I'm still here?
And along with the anger is fear. What if I can't have children at all? What then? I don't want to sound melodramatic, but I just can't see a future without children...it just all seems so pointless....

More when I can bring myself to, too raw right now,
Suitcase
x


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## Roo67 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh Suity    

I can so identify at where you are at at the moment, (although i am older and have not had the best test results) I know you don't want platitudes but just to let you know that i am thinking of you and have been where you are now.
   
r xx


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## Betty-Boo (Oct 14, 2007)

Suity -          
So sorry to read your post honey.  
I really don't know what to say - it all too soon.  
Am thinking of you and so very very sorry it hasn't worked out.   

Perhaps some time away to find you?  Or maybe investigate as to why the embies aren't sticking?  It may be an immune issue?  

Take care - you are so strong, and remember we are all here.
Mini x xx


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## Elpida (Feb 11, 2008)

Suity - I couldn't read that and not respond. 

I'm sorry things are so hard and unfair, and it is really unfair. I can't know how you feel because I'm at such a different stage in this journey. You have every right to be ****** off and I hope that writing things out helps. I'm a firm believer in allowing yourself to feel what you need to feel in order not to become overwhelmed. I hope you're able to take time to be angry and hurt but believe that your dream can be achieved.    

E x x


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## kylecat (Oct 18, 2007)

Suity - I am so sorry that I am reading this post, you are right, it is bloody unfair that this has happened to you and to be honest, I am not sure that there is anything I can say to help you at this moment.  

In the first place, it is totally unfair that any of us have to go through with this treatment, especially when for many of us there is actually nothing medically wrong with our fertility anyway. Just because we haven't met anyone when most of our friends have, really hurts before we even start to begin this difficult journey. Then when after several rounds of treatment, you still have no luck life must begin to seem so utterly unfair. 

This should not be happening to such a lovely caring girl like you - you are going to make such a fantastic mum and if there's any justice in the world it's certainly about time your luck changed. I really hope that my post hasn't offended you in anyway as some people might say 'well its alright for her to be saying all this when the treatment has worked for her'. But I just wanted to try and offer you some comfort although it's so hard to put what you really want to say into words sometimes.   

The only advice I could give is maybe to try one more time but at a different clinic. As you know both myself and Coco have had very good experiences so far at The Wessex in Southampton. As it is not too far from you, maybe you could book an appointment with Sue Ingamells (the head consultant) and discuss your options with her? She has had over 15 years experience in fertility/IVF and teaches at Southampton University too. I believe the prices at the Wessex are slightly lower than those in central London too. 

I also just wanted to let you know that I am thinking of you at this really difficult time, 

Lots of Love
Kylecat xxx


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## Lou-Ann (Apr 20, 2008)

Suity, couldn't read and run  

There is nothing that anyone can say or do to make you feel any better, but I am so sorry that it hasn't worked for you this time. Life can be so cruel and unfair!  

Take care, thinking of you....

Lou-Ann x


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

Thank you everyone. I'm really not expecting replies here, but it's lovely that you are all thinking of me. I just wish there was something you could say to make it better, but as I know from the previous experiences of both BFN and the miscarriage, there is nothing anyone can say or do, just have to get through the days until it starts to get easier. 

I've known pretty much since Wednesday that it was BFN this time, so I've had a few days to think about it, and although it is still raw and too soon to make any decisions, what worries me most is that I just don't know what to do next. 

Being the organised and list obsessed person that I am (!), I've made a list of the options:

1. Try again with own eggs as soon as I can (I guess April/May time) and just keep trying until it bloody works....
2. Take up the donor egg cycle I have booked at Reprofit for April 6th
3. Have another cycle with own eggs at Reprofit and put myself on the waiting list for donor eggs at LWC in 
meantime
4. Book no further tx until I have immune testing etc done 
5. Book no further tx and start looking into adoption
6. Do nothing

OK, so option 6 clearly isn't an option - I just put it on the list for completeness - I am obviously not going to do nothing. And option 5 isn't really an option either - at least not yet. I wouldn't rule out adoption but I guess I do see it as a last resort if tx completely fails ( I mean no offence by this to those who have pursued adoption earlier but I'm just being honest about how it feels for me - I want to experience pregnancy and carry a baby/give birth) Plus I know how hard it is for single women to adopt - especially a baby/toddler, and that really puts me off. 

Option 4 - well I could get some immune testing done but would it really make a difference? I know that they would probably just prescribe steroids, and I can request those for my next cycle anyway. And besides I can prob get the basic tests done whilst waiting for another cycle anyway, so that's just an avenue to look into but not something which changes the fundamental decision - own eggs vs donor eggs? And donor eggs abroad vs donor eggs here? (ie anon vs ID release donor?)

My head tells me to move to donor eggs. The success rates are over twice as high as with my own eggs. The tx itself is less invasive and stressful (no stimms/EC) and I've given it a pretty good go with my own eggs so it's not as if I'm moving on without trying with my own eggs first. And my head tells me to go with Reprofit. It's less expensive (so I can afford more attempts if it doesn't work straight away) and the success rates are higher than LWC because the donors are younger and generally proven.

But my heart tells me I'm just not ready. Even though theoretically I am comfortable with the idea of egg donation/double donation, I've read lots about it, it makes sense and I know I will love the child and consider it completely mine,  emotionally I'm just not quite there yet. It's one thing to rationally believe ED is OK, and quite another to actually take the step to do it myself (again, I mean no offence to those who have already taken this path - we all reach our decisions differently and in different time frames and we all bring our own distinct beliefs to the decision process).  I still feel so strongly that I want the child to have a genetic link to me and to my family. And if I'm not comfortable with it, then the child isn't going to be either. I owe it to them to be quite sure before I bring them into the world.

And the other thing which really scares me about moving to donor eggs is that it's the last step. If that doesn't work then I'm finished, there are no other options. And that really terrifies me. As long as I keep trying with my own eggs, then I've always got DE as a 'back up', but once I move to DE, what is my back up then? 

And even if I could go ahead with donor eggs, I'm not sure I can go with anon donor. When I booked the donor cycle at Reprofit I had only had 1 IVF with own eggs - I booked it because I knew there was a long waiting list, I didn't think I'd actually have to use it. And now the time has gone by so quickly and I just don't feel ready (but do you ever really feel ready?) I keep thinking that the child will hate me if I deny them the chance to find out about their genetic parentage. That's why I insisted on ID release sperm for the cycle at Reprofit, and that's why I'm not sure I can do donor egg there. I just fear that because the child will know I had a choice, that they will be angry I didn't opt for ID release donor just because of money and timing. I know that's pretty crazy and at the end of the day I can't predict at all what the child will feel when they grow up and also if they grow up knowing about it, it prob won't be an issue. But I just can't get over the feeling that for me it would be wrong to go with anon donor (if I could even really get to grips with donor at all that is....)

So although my head is telling me to go ahead with the fresh donor at Reprofit in April, I just don't know if I can.

I've talked to both my sisters about the options, and whilst they aren't going through it so they don't really know how it feels, both of them have said (quite independently of eachother - although possibly they are conspiring between my back - it has been known!) that I am over thinking this, especially the anon vs ID release donor. They tell me that any child will know it is loved and part of the family, that it isn't so much about the genes and is everything to do with the people who love you, care for you, spend time with you. And again I know in theory that they are right, but I just can't feel it. I just can't seem to take the step, and yet I want a child more than anything and surely the way to get there is to move to the option which gives me the highest chance?

I don't want to have to think about all this any more and yet I don't seem to be able to come to a decision I am comfortable with. Part of me wants to move to donor eggs because it offers higher success rates, but I'm also scared to because if it fails I don't know how I will cope with thinking that I've run out of options. And part of me wants to keep trying with my own eggs - I'm not even 40 yet and so many others have had success after that..why can't I?

It's all I ever think about...I've started to avoid spending time with friends because I can't talk about anything except this, I'm sure I'm boring them all to death with it. 

If the counsellor at LWC were better then I would try some counselling, but based on my initial consultation with her, it would be a waste of time. I have to somehow get to the 'right' conclusion for me by myself. 
Have emailed Stepan to ask his advice on what next - he's apparently on holiday though and said he'd get back to me in a few days...

And maybe I should pop in for a consultation at the Wessex - after all, what's another couple of hundred ££s compared to what I've spent on this already, maybe another opinion will help me work out which direction to go now. 

OK, enough. I'm going to try and do something else today - even if it's cleaning the flat, I need to not think about this for a while. Off to Finland on Tues for work, maybe it will be good to throw myself into work for a few weeks as a distraction - I've been neglecting it of late and I'm sure people have noticed. Maybe it's time to put in some effort and build up some brownie points for next time I go through tx - whenever that may be. 
And a week Monday my niece has her cochlear implant operation which is pretty scary for us all since it involves drilling a hole in her scull under GA to insert the implant. And although the risks are minimal and my sis and her husband wouldn't be going ahead if they had any concerns at all, it's still a difficult time. She's only 4 and it's a lot to go through at that age. So I'll be up there next weekend and through to Tuesday helping out, so that will certainly take my mind off me me me for a change....

Thanks again to those who have replied - you know I wouldn't get through this without you all and I'm very grateful. If anyone has any wise words on how to come to a decision about own vs donor eggs, feel free to PM me if you'd rather not post in public. I know everyone's decision path is different, but perhaps it will help to know how others got there...

Suitcase
x


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## Damelottie (Jul 26, 2005)

Hello Suity

God - its a flipping minefield trying to work it all out and decide what to do for the best.

I think my own journey has been quite unusual and maybe even a bit back to front    that I'm never sure how useful I am. But for what its worth.......................

I think I am VERY lucky in that using donor eggs has never bothered me in the slightest. I have no idea why - it just never has. So I say lucky because I've never had anything to 'work through' if you know what I mean. A few people, including Stepan, have questioned why I didn't want to try with my own eggs. I honestly couldn't see why spend the extra money, and go through the extensive medical part, if it just wasn't important to me  . After so many year I just wanted a family!

The one part of that, that I DID question, was the better success rates with own egg IVF. But then, I've increasingly become uncomfortable with all these ridiculous percentages and statistics - no offence intended. They vary so wildly all the time that I just gave up. The way I looked at it............ if I walked into a clinic and had an embryo put back, then i had a MASSIVELY better chance of getting pregnant than not having it done at all  . I am sorry if that sounds so simplistic but this is exactly how my mind works with all this now. 

So I ignored IVF. I looked at having a few IUI's (just because why not?? - not much hassle and it might work  ), but the increase in the UK market of sperm priced me out of that  

So I booked a fresh go with DE at Reprofit, and decided to spend a few thousand pounds on donor FET whilst I was waiting. I figured I could afford maybe 3 goes. Any my single, not brilliant quality, rapidly thawed egg did the deed - when I was stressed out of my head, had messed up my meds, and my endo was rearing its head. Please UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES am I saying that to RUB IT IN. Dear god no - I'm just trying to say that my opinion is (again for what its worth)...........

Keep going and try not to get too hooked into the stats thing. I have been JUST LUCKY and there is no reason at all why you won't be too   .

No idea if that been any help at all or a total load of twaddle but i AM thinking of you and I dearly hope nothing I have said has offended ANYBODY

LL xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

Suity-   I am so sorry for you, and can empathise how you feel, I know it is hard and I do think the more that you have BFN's then harder it hits you and all the anxiety and grief gets compounded, and the deeper the 'Will it ever happen' feelings and thoughts occur.  But keep up hope no-one has turned you away and said 'Give up'  or 'You can't carry a baby' , do something differently, you had good eggs yourself produced 2 blasts something many women will never manage - me for one- (remember that some clinics with high results go on less eggs but quality) - or would you consider DE's, or have full set of  Chicago immune tests (Mr ******* can do it all in one appt in Harley St or in clinics around London cost about £1500 in all - check out the Miscarriageclinic on google) that might help with implantation failure, or go for a consultation at another clinic- like the Lister, CARE in Notts with George after all it is an opinion and not entering into treatments with them- finding out what would they do differently for you?

Remember we are trying to beat the odds - and as my acupuncturist said when I was in floods of tears once after a BFN- but why should you get pregnant when the odds are stacked against you every time, we are more likely not to get pregnant. I didn't find it help at the time but it is very true.

We will get there, by hook or crook we will be mummies and our time will come, and I always think that  Drs don't always know best (maybe 20+ years of nursing has shown me that!).

I don't usually feel angry with my body more with my mind, as if they are 2 different things!!, the 'why me' and 'why did my baby have to die' 'what did I do so wrong' 'why do I not deserve a BFP over others' is normal and comes back every so often, I feel angry with myself and say if I had never started this then I had a perfectly good uterus and now by doing IVF instead of hunting for Mr Right I have been 'butchered' and that may mean I cannot carry a baby.

The financial aspects are tough, from someone who has spend £50-60K and been on this TTC track since 2005, and I know I am so blessed to have the boys with me every step of the way, I can emapthise, but look on FF's and people that inspire and show it can happen against all the odds- ALmaMay, Ophelia, SheHulk, Mayve, MC, Cubster - people who have never let go and 15 year+, 10+ cycles, roamed every corner of the world, been turned away from clinics and got their baby, or well on the way and some with their own eggs in their 40's  or have their own miracle story in some way - they prove it can and will happen, check out the multiple cyclers and poor responder thread.  It is hard when others that you have travelled the road with you are pregnant or get their children, I used to lie in the recovery bay after EC at  ARGC and look at the 6 other women on the trolleys and think 3 of us will be pregnant I wonder if it is my turn this time. 

I also meet up with a group of London Girls (and their babies) who I knw well, and out of 10 of who first met in 2006/7 there are 4 of us without babies who have again trawled the world (USA, Barbados, Greece, various clinic in London, Wales etc) and had weird and wonderful tests - look up the Dr Toth regimes in New York- high dose anti biotic infusions for women and injections of AB into the mens testicles through their perineium!! My donor did say if I wanted him to do it he would!!  One of the girls tested 4 days after me on the 3rd cycle and I look at her LO meeting her milestones. We learn something from everyone we meet though and they are proof that it does work

As my donors partner said we have to look on the brighter side to keep the dream going, in that we have a good job and can still carry on paying for treatment (although we would rather be buying nappies) and have health - my friend who has been approved for adoption then ran into spinal probems, had surgery on her back, was on the mend and had got to the stage where she was being matched with a child, and her back has gone back to square 1 and she is totally disabled again, I went over last night to  make dinner, do shopping, unpack dishwasher, put the bins out etc as she has to be totally flat on 400mgs of oxycodin a day. Our other friend is doing today.

Take care and I hope that you are with friends/family taking care of you. and always have a plan b in hand!  I do agree that packing on the pounds is the bits that get me down!! ( I need to loose at least 2 stone now!!)

L x


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

Just wanted to pop back on and clarify that in no way at all am I angry with any of you lovely girls for whom it has worked already. NOT AT ALL.....

I think my posts might have come across as anger at those who seem to get pregnant easily on first IUI/IVF etc, and that's not how I feel.

I wouldn't wish this on anyone, much least a group of women who I think are pretty special to be going it alone in the first place. I'm happy for each and every one of you, there is no doubt about that.

I suppose if I believed in god, I'd direct my anger there. But I gave up on that a long time ago (I suppose my father dying when I was a teenager was an early introduction to the '**** just happens for no reason' lesson) and so now I have all this anger and I don't really know where to direct it....but pls rest assured it's not at any of you.....even if it might have sounded a bit like that....

I've always believed if you want something enough, and you're prepared to put in the extra effort, it will happen. And now I'm realising that the one time it matters most, actually it's largely irrelevant how much effort I put in, there's no guarantee it will work at all - and that's something I'm finding quite difficult to deal with. If there's nothing I can do and it's all down to luck, then what if I'm just not lucky? Not everyone can win the lottery can they? (crass analogy but you know what I mean)

Anyway, I just came back on to make it clear I'm not angry with any of you who already have your dream or are well on the way to it, was worried I might have sounded that way. Back to the cleaning and trying not to think about it for now (although as you can I'm not doing too well with the not thinking about it  - I always did think too much  

Suitcase
x


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## kylecat (Oct 18, 2007)

Suity - I'm sure that for every single person who has read your message, it hasn't even entered into their head that you might be angry at any of us. You have the RIGHT to be angry - you've been through so much this last year that I'm sure a whole host of emotions are running around in your head right now. 

I know that we are all at different stages of this journey, some just beginning and some towards the end but what is important is that we all give each other support as when it comes down to it we are all in the same boat - on our own without a partner, very brave and desperately wanting to be mothers. 

You need support and kindness right now and you can be rest assured that whatever happens we are all here for you as you have been for all of us in the past.  

Love
Kylecat xxx


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## Damelottie (Jul 26, 2005)

Hello S

Your posts didn't come across to me as being angry with anyone particulalry - just the whole   thing, and I think we can all understand that.



LL x


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## bingbong (Dec 9, 2008)

Suity,

I don't feel that I have anything to add, being so early in this journey and so surrounded by others who have been there, but I couldn't read and run.

The one thing that I would say is that if you don't like the LWC counsellor then try someone else, even a counsellor who isn't a specialist in fertility treatment should be able to help you, although you might need to educate them a little. I know a lot of counsellors in London, so if you want me to suggest someone then I would be happy to. I really think that it would help, talking to someone about everything who is a bit more detached than friends/family.

I am so sorry for your bfn, and for how you are feeling and the decisions that you are now trying to make. Life really does suck sometimes. 

I am here to support you in any way that I can as are a lot of people obviously. You are not alone  

Bingbong x


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## Maya7 (Sep 9, 2008)

Suity - just discovered this thread after the 2ww one... I think you operate very well with a sounding board approach and you have had some lovely posts, well considered and caring...

Even reading this post now, I can see you have begun the internal debate between your head and your heart ... its a tough one and often time is what is needed to make yourself comfortable with any decision.. In some way we all of us have 'compromised' in some way from not having a 'traditional' conception to having to explore options as we progress that we would not have considered earlier in our tx plan but have reached obstacles that have caused us to focus on what it is we want and to open our minds more to the 'how' of it.  

Only you will be able to imagine yourself dealing with explaining the anonymous DE tx to your child.  If you cannot then another option may be the one you need to consider... do you have the finances to consider ID release DE (and importantly the time involved in waiting etc...)?  Can you explore immune testing prior to further tx?  ... what i have picked up from your messages is that you are not at the point of deciding not to continue ... You have good instincts, so try to go with those ... you may think that focussing on work will help and maybe you do need to disconnect for a while ... Be gentle with yourself until you have a clearer idea of what is next for you ... and what is best for you...

  
Maya


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## madmisti (Sep 1, 2008)

Hi Suity

So sorry you are in such a bad place but it is totally understandable given what you have been through. Want to add my cyber hugs and support.

I notice that one option you haven't listed  is Pre Implantation Genetic Screening. As you seem to produce a good quantity of eggs and many fertilise, it may be that there is a problem at the embryo stage. They do this at Reprofit ( though I believe it is actually Repromeda who do the actual PGS). I don't know how much extra it costs - I have a vague memory of £800 - but that really is a vague memory! Maybe combining PGS with an immune protocol would give you the best chance with own eggs? Might be worth asking Stepan about when he is back. Caroline in Geneva has had this so might be worth PM'ing her?

As for working through all the emotions etc - it may be worth asking your GP about counselling. I don't think it really needs someone who is specifically a fertility counsellor and this way it would be free too!

Hope that the emotions won't feel quite as raw in a few days. Be gentel with yourself hun   

Love
Misti xx


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

suitcase of dreams said:


> Option 4 - well I could get some immune testing done but would it really make a difference? I know that they would probably just prescribe steroids, and I can request those for my next cycle anyway. And besides I can prob get the basic tests done whilst waiting for another cycle anyway, so that's just an avenue to look into but not something which changes the fundamental decision - own eggs vs donor eggs? And donor eggs abroad vs donor eggs here? (ie anon vs ID release donor?)
> 
> My head tells me to move to donor eggs. The success rates are over twice as high as with my own eggs. The tx itself is less invasive and stressful (no stimms/EC) . It's less expensive (so I can afford more attempts if it doesn't work straight away) and the success rates are higher than LWC because the donors are younger and generally proven.
> 
> But my heart tells me I'm just not ready. And the other thing which really scares me about moving to donor eggs is that it's the last step. If that doesn't work then I'm finished, there are no other options.


Suity I'd like to pick up on some of your points ...pls don't take it the wrong way as it is not intended everyone is trying to help as you are obviously in a v sad place at the moment.

I think that there is a lot more to immune issues than just steroids and clexane, I've had had IVIG on one cycle, once recommended Humira and then it was cancelled as next results were better for elevated TNF alfa -Humira would mean at least a 3 month delay, immunes on cycles are a variable beast, as Lou says Dr Beers book is a great starting point. There are the tests that others I am in contact with others who have had and treatments depending on their situations eg: LIT (a day trip to Athens is the easiest and cheapest option for this although Dr Armstrong at the Portland can arranged this in the UK) and of course Intralipids that are rivalling IVIG - SIRM are advocting this and it is available in the UK and much less expensive that IVIG - Dr Gorgy at the Fertility Academy in Harley St will run tests on people and treat immunes issues for girls whilst they are cycling elsewhere. (Choice4 is a useful person to contcat for info on this) He is an ex ARGC Dr who set up on his own down the road.

I know that you are feeling fragile but I cannot say that DE is a less stressful option than doing IVF yourself, as on your own IVF cycle you are in control of most aspects of your cycle when stimming, whereas with DE I was saying things like- I hope she is taking her folic acid, drinking her milk, eating her nuts, not drinking alcohol, taking it easy and resting, keeping her tummy warm etc but the truth is you know nothing and never will she could be out a disco every night, drunk and having a kebab on the way home for dinner and I will never know but what I do know is that she has given me 16 wonderful eggs, and a chance to be a mother. Also the fact that my endo lining doesn't play ball despite weeks of injections, blood tests and scans all the time and flying to Barcelona twice to be cancelled - I have probably had more scans and bloods than I ever had on my bog standard IVF cycles at the Bridge, and then risking thrombosis and strokes from having sky high oestrodial levels continuosly for months on end, and the longer term risks of cancers, it isn't necessarily easier. Neither is DE a cheaper option, in fact cycling myself at the Bridge has been the cheaper option most times by a good £4K+.

By your posts you are probably not ready to accept DE's, and that is fine, and probably you don't need to it as you do produce eggs and of good quality- not sure how long the waits are in the UK for DE's , as I know people who have been on the Lister waiting list and they still waiting 5 years later - fortunately they have been abroad and have twins whilst wiaitng! Also remember in the UK most DE's are from egg share people having treatment themselves, some for male factors others for female factors, others are altrusitic and you will never know which group your eggs are from, but what it does mean is that there are potential half siblings that could be there, open up a wider range of issues for you to face. DE abroad are from younger healthy donors who have been paid for their services, or embryos from others who have had successful treatments and completed their families. You will always be the child's mummy just like in adoption- different horses for courses!

It is so intersting how we all view things differently as I also don't see DE as a last resort at all, in my mind it is the second step, then there is surrogacy, and then adoption both fraught with more compliactions, and surrogacy has all the legal challanges as a single person - I see DE is only the second option for me.

Have you asked your sisters or friends directly, if they would help you and donate eggs to you if needed, some of my friends offer but they were 37 plus and had no children of their own either. They can only say no, or they will think about it, but there may be someone seeing you in this painful situation and want to help.

What about doing things differently on your 2ww - I have always taken the 2 ww off work on my own cycles , and on my last cycle I took a month off work to stim and 2ww to not have to worry about work/agendas/appts etc and it was the most stressless cycle - it sounds a lot of time off but in the scheme of your working life it isn't, it is 20 days!

Have you had a hysteroscopy and checks on your lining etc since your mc? (I am obsessed with linings!!) mind you you did respond last time.

I know that you said that the LWC counsellor was no good for you, what about a session with Zita West herself for advice after all she has probaby encountered every fertility situation under the sun, or one of her counsellors-I have seen Zita and Jane Knight one of her fertility counsellors in years gone by, as well as her hypnotherapist and nutritionist they are open on Saturdays but not all of them work on Saturadays. If not, there are other fertility counsellors that may be in your area. http://bica.net/counselling-requests-listI defintely think having a few months off to gather yourself, get fitter and do 'me' things is a good thing.

Never see your cycles as a waste of time, although it feels like it at the time when you get a negative result - as each cycle brings more info for the Drs to work with, and with your miscarriage - you are always that  baby's mummy even though it was for a short time, for me it was a special time and no-one can take that away, I have my scans pictures, congratulation cards etc and they will also be special, although on the flip the sadness of what could and should have been.

Take care 

L x

PS some of these q's might help http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=95098.0

[red]This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites[/red]


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## ♥Jovial♥ (Feb 25, 2007)

Suity,

So sorry to read what you are going through.

There's nothing I can add, can't imagine what you must be feeling  

Take your time in deciding what is right for you, you'll know when it's the right time to take those next steps.

Take care,
Jovi x


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## Felix42 (Oct 14, 2007)

Suity, thinking of you.  You are one very strong lady and you will find the strength to go on once you have decided what is best for you, and it really is all such a personal decision as you say.

Love and hugs, Felix xx


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

suity, don't think there is anything I can say other than send big   and hope that you find a way that you feel comfortable with, I'm sure you will...you just have to work it through and that takes time.

Sorry that this time didn't work and you are having to think about all this again.

take care, love
xxx


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## muddypaws (Apr 10, 2008)

Hi Suity,
I am so sorry that life feels so c**p at the moment. I would feel exactly the same and did feel very angry and sad and constantly questioned "why not me" before my bfp. I think that we have been on this journey for about the same amount of time in terms of treatment but I think that I started about six months before you. Like you I had all good results and lots and lots of eggs. I felt angry that I had so many eggs considering my age but despite so many, so few seemed to make it. The second round of ICSI gave me great eggs and blasts but despite that, the first set didn't work despite having a hatching blast. It took me 44 eggs to get to the one that worked....I have no idea why it did or why the other one that attached and grew initially didn't then make it. All I can say is that I felt lucky and relieved...for me I guess I now believe that it is just about the right egg/embryo...no idea what makes that happen but number must help. I think it is a numbers game at some level at our age - probably doesn't help but maybe it is about trying until you just can't stand it any more?

It is so painful....the only way to get through the pain is to continue with your plan. You still have good results, you still have eggs, no doubt you do still have the strength to continue and you have been pregnant. Maybe some immune tests would help...I had some basic ones done and these seemed to be enough to indicate no further ones were needed...I had my GP do them; I had the anticardiolipin (part of the thrombophilia screen I think) and lupus anticoagulant. Sounds like you still want to try with your own eggs...sounds good to me. Maybe Reprofit can swap your DE slot around with someone a couple of months on from April? I'm sure there would be lots of people eager to bring their dates forward and swap with you. It would give you enough time for more attempts. 

I guess my thought on different clinics is that it might help but that it could also confuse and just cost more. I was lucky to know someone in the business and had a free extra consultation with him. He pretty much told me about the numbers thing and said that the right egg was the ticket when everything else looked OK - same message as my Consultant at the clinic. Stats are confusing and probably don't help much really - so maybe just go with what feels right and that sounds like another go with your own eggs. 

I really feel for you but it's amazing where our resilience comes from...keep going, you do still have time.  

Lots of love

Muddy xx


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## winky77 (Nov 27, 2007)

Suity    

Can't really add much more than the wonderful girls have already posted but I just wanted to say how utterly disappointed I am for you...it's totally not fair.. .... yet you know you are not alone....many girls on here have been thru equally challenging journeys.  I also know you are a strong and resilient woman and will find a way through this.......you shouldn't have to.....but you will. 

Like some others have said too.....I would definately advocate immune testing.....I've already decided that I'll go down that route if this next cycle is not successful...I know about the thyroid antibodies but I'd want ot know what else might be going on......this will be my fourth IVF/FET too and I've only one more lot of wrigglies left after this go. 

I think we all also know that the decisions on diff treatments, DE or not, adoption etc are so so personal that we'll have always have different people having different thinking at different times.  I too have not got my head round DE.....haven't even put myself on the waiting list.....which I may one day regret but just not there in my head yet.  At the same time I wholly admire those who have gone down this route....and sometimes feel I'm lacking something by not being able to embrace that yet.... 

I really do hope you can work through the decisions to make and get some peace about next steps soon. This whole TTC business is a total mind  .... 

 Winky


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## cherrycherry (Sep 25, 2008)

(((((((((((((((Suitcase))))))))

I just wanted to say I read your post most deeply feeling for you, and am hoping it all works out for you. 

Cherry Cherry


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## OneStepAtATime (Sep 14, 2008)

Suity
I am so sorry. I don't feel able to add anything to what the others have said, but wanted to send you the warmest wishes and let you know I'm thinking about you.

I'm so sorry it didn't work out for you this time. 
  
Take care
OneStep


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## wizard (Nov 6, 2008)

Suitcase, I was so sad to read your post.  I know how hard, and heartbreaking it must be to be going through what you are.  We all know there are no magic answers to the questions you ask, from 'why me/not me' to 'should I use donor eggs'.  If only there were, it would make this process so much easier.  And you don't sound at all angry at those who have got pregnant; that feeling of being very happy for them because you know how hard this all is and how fantastic it is they've got there doesn't detract from the 'why isn't it my turn' and the feelings of unfairness.  Because this whole thing is just an unfair lottery.  No rationale, no logic, no fairness, no justice.  

Remember that you are still relatively 'young', you still have some time and more opportunities to try again if that's what you decide to do.  The emotional toll is huge but sometimes we just have to do what we have to do.... And as long as you're trying there's always hope.

I wish you mountains of luck, and in the meantime take good care of yourself and be nice to yourself.  Love x


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Laura you have every right to shout, scream, pummell the walls and bite the carpets if it helps.  It's not bloody fair and no wonder you're angry.  Just don't put it in a box and try and push it away.  It looks like you come to one of those crossroads moments, and I think you need to give yourself time to feel what you need to feel, and think things through gradually.

We had a convo about DE, and I remember thinking how much more sense it made when you have family around you.  If you got your head around it and went DD, your child would not only have a great mum, he or she would have wonderful aunts and cousins to play with.  That would give them so much more stability and family identity than say I would be able to give, with my pathetically small family.  I do think that children want to know where they come from, but I think if you handle it carefully then it doesn't need to cause trauma or make them feel alien.  Like you I wanted open-ID sperm so they had that choice if they wanted it, I think that's important when we're single and there's no Dad around.  But as for DE - well they would already have a Mum who carried them and gave birth to them.  That makes all the difference.  

However, I don't think you're at DD yet, there's nothing wrong with your eggs, so I think the others are right when they advise that you take a breather and investigate other tests before making a more informed decision.


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## indekiwi (Dec 23, 2008)

Hi Suitcase,

Meant to post last night but a 12 hour power cut put paid to that idea.  Gotta love this weather.

No matter that you were not seeking solace from responses per se, I hope the many powerful and heartfelt stories, suggestions and expressions of support will soften the very natural raw anger and fear you have been feeling these past few days (and maybe weeks and months).  Although their comments have been specifically aimed at and for you, I have been amazed and inspired by these many women, who like you, are incredibly strong, determined and passionate about achieving their goal of having children, no matter the hurdles put in front of them.  So thank you so much for having the guts to write down your thoughts and feelings, a process that I really hope has proved cathartic and healing, because it has also helped me.  

You asked about how different individuals have come to the decision to use donor eggs, rather than their own.  Our circumstances are clearly very different.  My own decision came about because I was told that although LFC would continue to treat me with my own eggs if that was my wish, it would be a waste of my money and time.  Moreover, I only had three straws of sperm left from the donor I used to conceive my son, and it was (and remains) important to me that biologically he has some connection with any sibling I conceive - even if that is through the donor rather than me.  Personally I didn't want to be pumped full of drugs again, only to get the same or similar result as the one in August (2 follicles, one egg, no fertilisation, no transfer, one more straw of sperm wasted, another £7k down the tubes, hopes and dreams in ashes).   It took three months to stop raging at my body for letting me down, to let go of the sense of having my fertility robbed from me too early, and to get my head around using donor eggs.  However, my choice became not whether to use my own eggs or donor eggs, since the former simply don't seem to be available and I only have three straws of sperm left; but whether to use donor eggs or adopt.  (I didn't consider surrogacy; since I have had a successful pregnancy in the past, I know that I can carry).  I concluded that donor eggs would leave the process of adding to my family more in my control and will go down this route until the sperm reserves are gone, then look into adoption again.  I am peaceful about my decision to proceed in this manner and excited and expectant about the outcome in March.  

Regarding anonymity of donors, the sperm donor I have been using contributed his sperm in 2002, so my son and any sibling have no right to find out about him in future.  The female donor, being in the UK (presumably!), is in a different position.  Therefore, any new child would be able to find out about the female contributor, but not the male.  I am now in the position of seeing if I can get the male donor's patient or identifying number so that I can lodge this on the relevant websites and see if any biological half siblings come forward in time.  I will also be writing a letter to have put on the donor's file in case he ever shows an interest in finding out more about offspring he has helped to create.  (Ideas from Single by Chance, Mothers by Choice - other suggestions gratefully received  ).  At that point, I will have done all I can to assist my child(ren) in finding out about their biological genealogy.  However, I now think of identity formation very differently than I once did and I hope to bring my kids up with a much wider understanding of who they are than the narrow definition provided by biology - and its constraints.  Changing my own thinking about this has been extremely liberating in all senses.

I don't know if any of the above aids your thought process, but it's there for what it's worth.  I wish you peace, confidence and determination in making your choices.  

Quite separately, I really hope your niece sails through her surgery and that the implants make a material difference for the better in her life.

A-Mx


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## Candee (Feb 1, 2009)

Dear Suitcase
Not that it can really help you, but I cried when I read your post - I seem to be spending at lot
of time in tears at the moment. A few weeks ago I got the shattering news that my egg resevrve
is very low. I am only at the beginning of this journey, but reading your post gives me a sense of what
I am going to have to face too. When I was first told about my very poor test results by an English
clinic they just told me that egg donation would take years and was not really an option for me and left it at that. 
I was desperate until I realised, through researching on the internet, 
that there might be a chance of an egg donor abroad and I suppose the relief of that superseded the 
shock of probably not being able to have a baby of my own. I am now starting out with reprofit. I
am going to ask about min stim, but realistically i know that at 41, with hardly any eggs, this will mean 
donor eggs. All I can think is that it will be like adopting a new born - which I would never get the chance
to do as a single 40+. Also I read a brilliant article posted on the site about how your genes affect
the baby in the womb. Suitcase I truly hope that you will have your own baby, but if not, at least we _have_ the option
of trying with donor eggs from abroad and the chance of a baby still means a chance of a future with a child.
All i think is that even just a few years ago, that would not have been possible.
I am thinking of you
Jandee


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

You're not out of options yet kiddo, not even close.  Money, now that might be tricky, but options you have still.  Please don't give up hope.


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

Just wanted to thank you all so very much for your words, hugs, thoughts and suggestions. I started this thread to 'let out' the anger and fear I was feeling more than anything, but it's also been wonderful to hear your views and certainly some good food for thought there. 

This BFN has co-incided with the busiest week or two at work since September, a work trip to Helsinki, and my niece's impending cochlear implant operation, so suffice to say my head is so full of stuff at the moment I can't really think straight. 

It's probably a good thing after the outpourings of emotion on Sunday I think I need some time away from thinking about this. 

I still go to bed thinking about how much I want a baby, and wake up thinking the same thing. But at least in the hours inbetween I am so busy with work and everything else, that it's not occupying me every waking minute.

I know I'm going to have to face the feelings and decisions soon, but for now I'm just going to let myself kind of pretend that it's not happening....

Just didn't want you to think your words and thoughts were either unwelcome or unread   I've said it before, no doubt I'll say it many times again, you fantastic people have kept me going through all this, for which I am truly grateful...

Right, going now before I end up sobbing again,
Suitcase
x


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## Mifi (Sep 27, 2008)

Suity

This thread has had me in floods      I can't really add to anything that hasn't been said and I totally get where you are at so I just wanted to give you more      cause you need them    

Love FM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

Hmm, particularly crap day today.

AF started which of course isn't surprising as stopped all the progesterone etc on Saturday evening so is to be expected. Caught me by surprise how much it upset me though. I mean I've had pretty much a week to get used to the BFN (knew last Weds it hadn't worked even though test day was not until Sunday officially) and it's not as if I wasn't expecting AF to turn up. But somehow it just brought it all right back to the surface and it was as much as I could do not to end up in floods of tears (hardly ideal during a full day workshop)

And then I got an email with pics of a friend's new baby - when I know for a fact she doesn't really like children and only had a 2nd because she felt she 'ought to', she's going straight back to work and house hubby is going to look after the kids....she's a lawyer and really into her work. Not that I'm saying you can't combine career with children, or that going back to work early is a bad thing necessarily. I'm just angry and bitter that she manages to have 2 kids quickly and easily when she doesn't even really want them that much, whilst I'm stuck treading water in a job I no longer care about just waiting for the day I can take some maternity leave (again, I know I'll have to go back to work afterwards and I don't even hate my job that much, I just don't want it to be the only thing in my life which it currently is)

Anyway, one thing on top of another really...think my stack of cards is fairly precarious at the moment and it will only take one tiny thing to bring it all crashing down. Only 2 people at work know about the ttc and I'd prefer to keep it that way for many reasons but on days like this I just want to shout at them all...how can they expect me to be professional and interested and involved in the workshop when I've got all this stuff going on in my head?

Plus am in Finland so can't even get a minute to myself to be sad in private and have to be stuck in hotel rather than at home with my own things around me. Supposed to be going out to dinner with colleagues tonight and it is frowned upon to not go, but I am going to plead headache or something as just can't face having to have a polite meal with everyone when I am feeling like this...

Ugh...just when you think you're doing Ok, you realise that actually you're not actually doing OK at all....not helped by less than 5 hours sleep last night on account of the 2 hour time difference and arriving late etc

Sorry to rant (again) but no one here to talk to and it's better out than in....

Suitcase
x


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

suity take care, it must be unsettling when you are not at home, glad you had a night in even if it is in the hotel - I don;t view AF as a negative I see it as day 1 of the next cycle and the start not the end.


L x


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## Maya7 (Sep 9, 2008)

Big   suity ... I think JJ1's positive take on AF arriving is a great way to think of things... 

Take care
Maya


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## madmisti (Sep 1, 2008)

Oh Suity - you poor thing. I hate being away from home, and it is particularly hard when you are feeling low. Glad you are looking after yourself by crying off the meal. Understand why AF arriving is so upsetting - makes it very real.

Not really anything I can say - just wanted you to know that I care and send some cyber hugs your way   

Take care hun
misti xx


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

hi suity - glad you got out of the meal, you don't need it. Not surprised you feel rubbish at the moment, totally understandable, its really hard.  So be kind to yourself and like JJ says this could be the start of the next cycle and who knows maybe this is the one!  Its just hard to keep that positivity going all the time.
   

hope you are home soon and can look after yourself in your own house!!

xx


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## Mifi (Sep 27, 2008)

Suity thinking of you    Have a safe trip home and soon I hope it must be so hard to be away from home at such low times    Take care


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## annacameron (Dec 16, 2008)

Id add:

get immunes done at ARGC
check out difference between IVIg and steroids - not just level of suppression but HOW they do it.
read the various answers to my 3 threads on exactly this point - DE vs immunes 


Personally I dont think you have given OE a good enough go yet.


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

Thanks Anna 

I'm single so ARGC won't treat me I'm afraid. However, I will definitely be looking into some form of immune testing

Suitcase
x


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

I think that's the best course of action for now.


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## Tinkelbunny (Jan 9, 2009)

the support from every one is amasing, just marking this thread to read later


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## Mifi (Sep 27, 2008)

Suity

I hope that you are home and a bit more settled now. I am thinking of you     take care, you know where I am if you need   

Love FM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

Has anyone heard from Dottie recently- do send her my love!
L x


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

JJ - Dottie is sunning herself in the Caribbean and having a much needed break. Think she's back later this week though, so sure she'll pop in to say hello soon

FM - thanks hun. Am OK - ish....

Been at my sisters for 2 days. Oldest niece was due to have cochlear implant operation today - got into theatre, GA and everything, only to discover she's got an ear infection and they couldn't do the op. So re-scheduled for next month and I've come back home as not needed to babysit the other two tomorrow now and thought I'd save the day's holiday to go back again next month.
Love spending time with my nieces and nephew but also very very hard as makes me so acutely aware of what I don't have. Youngest niece is just 7 months old and so gorgeous...

Still don't know what to do. Had email from Stepan which seemed to be saying try again with own eggs, but also said 15% chance own eggs vs 60% donor eggs. Now I know stats are just stats, but at the same time, 4 times more likely to succeed with donor eggs is compelling argument. And yet I just don't know if I'm mentally 'ready' for donor eggs yet. Hard to really tell from the email though what his advice was - he's not so good on email as in person. Am going to call and discuss on the phone later this week....

This latest BFN has hit me much harder than the others, and in a way I suppose it's brought back all the grief after the miscarriage/ERPC, and I just don't know how much more of this I can put myself through. But at the same time the alternative (ie no children) is just quite simply unbearable. I am becoming a recluse - I don't want to go and socialise with anyone because all I can think and talk about is this....and the less I go out the less I have to talk about and so it goes on. At this rate I'll have no friends left.... 

Anyway it's late and now that I'm supposed to be working tomorrow I should try and get some sleep...at least when I'm asleep I don't have to think about it all....

Suitcase
x


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## Mifi (Sep 27, 2008)

Oh Suity I so get where you are at      I've practically stopped comunicating with my friends and family - I just feel false when I am around them at the moment. Its just so hard   I broke down at the clinic today and now I've freaked them out a bit they are forcing my to stop for a few months after this tx not really sure how to feel about that   but its done now anyhow.

A shame your niece didn't get her implant done, one of my close friends has a little girl with one and she has come on in leaps and bounds since - her speach is really improving everyday and her behaviour is so much better because you can reason with her now and she is also less frustrated. I am sure your niece will get there soon  

Good to hear Dottie has gone away for a break especially in the Caribbean   send her my love when you catch up  

Me too at work tomorrow and I can't believe I am still up I am so going to pay for this tomorrow, but lately I have just not wanted to go to bed even though I feel cream crakered!! I guess I am just agitated and unsettled at the mo.

Anyway BIG HUGS TO YOU      

Love always FM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


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## annacameron (Dec 16, 2008)

youll get there. it will take more time than any of us want but you will. the women who succeed in late 30s are those with good nos of eggs as it's a game of find the good one. you have had 12, 20 and 8 which puts you WAY ahead of most people. you will get there. 

Id have immune testing just in case there's an issue with the mc     from that. and don't wait for another before finding out about eg clexane, steroids aspirin etc. 

lastly, you are being very brave. my heart goes out to you. it's a lot to do on your own. xx


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

I agree laura, I still feel that the best way forward is to eliminate any possible immune problems first before trying another tx.


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## winky77 (Nov 27, 2007)

I agree with the immune tests that's my Plan B....but hope I don't need it.....and I am on immune protocol this time anyway....

really feel for you suity.....I know you are working thru it but it is so so hard.... and not fair! 

had a chat with Dottie on ******** messenger last night.....she is back next Tuesday I think after 3 weeks of sunning....we haven't talked next steps...think she really need to give herself some space.....how fab to have a stonkin suntan at this time of year....she'll be glowing! 

lol
...winky


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## Betty-Boo (Oct 14, 2007)

Suity - I agree immune testing would be the next logical step.  
Have you looked into counselling - I've only had 1 session, cried for ages afterwards but no starting to feel a lot more focused.  It might help x x x


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

Thanks girls....

Not sure what to do about the immune tests. On the one hand I think it might make sense - on the other hand from what I've read the treatment for immune issues is either steroids/prednisolone or full on IVIG....which is only done at a few select clinics (mostly ARGC which doesn't treat us single girls anyway)
Stepan has already recommended steroids for next cycle if I go with own eggs, and I've been on clexane/aspirin for last 2 cycles. 
So just not sure if the immune tests would actually result in any tangible change to protocol. Although I suppose it might be peace of mind to know one way or another whether there is a concrete issue or just unexplained/old age....will have another think about that and then see whether to book an appt with Dr ******* or not....

Pretty sure I will try again with own eggs. Just don't think I am emotionally ready for donor eggs yet. I have 2 vials of Danish sperm left at Repro, so think I will prob set myself an absolute limit of 2 more goes with own eggs - which in total will mean I've had 6 fresh cycles over 2 years - for me at least that pretty much constitutes having done everything I possibly can to succeed with own eggs (I know we all have our own personal definitions of this, what's right for me won't necessarily be right for others)
Hoping I can go in April, waiting for Stepan to confirm that's OK.

And in the meantime I will put myself on the donor egg list at LWC. I struggle with this because I know UK donors are older and success rates lower vs Reprofit. But I just can't seem to get my head round the anonymity issue overseas. It's just a major stumbling block for me for some reason and I can't seem to get past it. So I will pay my £500 for LWC's waiting list and see what happens there. 

Re counselling - hmm, just had not good experiences with this in the past. If I thought I could find the right counsellor I might re-consider it, but for now I just don't have faith that it will make a difference. 

What I do need to do is find a way to get some enthusiasm and enjoyment back into my life. I feel like I've spent the last year treading water - it's all been about trying to get pregnant. And now I'm faced with another long year of it. I find it very hard to get excited about or interested in anything. So I need to work on that and try to find some other things to focus on and get interested in. 

Mini - so glad that the counselling is helping for you...and thanks again to all of you who have posted here with your thoughts, suggestions, and hugs - it means a lot,

Suitcase
x


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## Mifi (Sep 27, 2008)

Hi Suity

I had another counselling session today which i cried through the whole session and the psychologist said to me exactly what you said as below - freaky!!!! 

''What I do need to do is find a way to get some enthusiasm and enjoyment back into my life. I feel like I've spent the last year treading water - it's all been about trying to get pregnant. And now I'm faced with another long year of it. I find it very hard to get excited about or interested in anything. So I need to work on that and try to find some other things to focus on and get interested in. ''

Had a bad day today been stimming for last 2 weeks and did trigger shot last night only to get a call this morning to say that the only person who can process the sperm sample for tomorrows basting has had to go off island and as such this tx cycle is cancelled!!!! To say I am gutted is an understatement - 15 injections for nothing !!!!!     Especially as I have literally dragged myself through this cycle - For me it is just the icing on the cake and no more treatment for me for a few months minimum as I just can't hack it anymore       which makes me feel even more devistated so can't win   It is very tempting to go out tomorrow night get extremely drunk and try and get pg the old fashioned way, especially as I will be in my 'window of opportunity' but I won't because I know it is just so morally wrong and I would defo regrett as soon as I am sober   

Life totally sucks I was really hoping 2009 would be a better year but so far NOT so good.

Hugs to you and all   

Love FM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


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## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

OMG FullMoon, that's absolutely appalling.  Who is your clinic?


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## Betty-Boo (Oct 14, 2007)

FM          I am totally gobsmacked by the treatment you have received!  It makes my blood boil - this is hard enough as it is.  You take care we're here for you x x xx xx


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## Roo67 (Feb 12, 2007)

Fullmoon -   I am so sorry to hear of the dreadful time that you are having. that is so unfair of them to cancel this cycle so close to basting.

I think there are a few of us that need to take suity'w advice and try and find enjoyment in life - i know i do.

Take care and we are all here for you

r xx


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## Mifi (Sep 27, 2008)

Thanks, still pretty much in shock about it myself!!! I don't want to name & shame as atthe end of the day I really need this clinic as it is the only one on the island even when I have IVF in the UK I have to have all my scans etc. here unless I live in the UK for a month which just isn't possible. The nurse who called to give me the bad news was very apologetic and says she understands what I am going through - although I doubt that very much   I guess it just one of those things and completely out of my hands but I can't shake the feeling that someone somewhere has a voodoo doll with my name on it   

Does anyone know how long my window of opportunity is after pregnl injection at 10:15pm Wednesday - I wonder if it is worth flying to UK tomorrow night or Sat morn and begging a UK clinic to bast me??    My last IVF was at LWC does anyone know if they are open on Saturdays?

What do you guys think - I am just angry at the waste of all i've been through this last 3 weeks if there is a chance I guess I should do my damdest to take it


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## Mifi (Sep 27, 2008)

Suity

Sorry amongst the steam coming out of my ears I meant to say that I think you are doing the right thing going away in April and with a back up plan for LWC - you are so brave hun   

Love FM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

FM - I'm so sorry this has happened. You'd think the clinic would have a back up plan for situations like this - surely it can't be acceptable to have patients stimm for 2 weeks for nothing. Hope at the very least you haven't had to pay for any of this...

Call LWC and ask them. They are def open on Saturdays - so maybe just check with them if the timing would work OK. Worth a try if it's your last shot for a few months

Thinking of you sweetie, what an awful thing to happen,   

Perhaps we should start a new thread with ideas on how to get the enjoyment back into life? I know I could do with some suggestions. The most I seem to be able to manage is work, TV or reading (escapism basically) - I don't seem to be able to feel positive or really interested in anything though - just feel like I'm kind of going through the motions. Classic depression symptoms basically (been here before although this is relatively mild compared to some of the previous occasions when I've barely been able to get out of bed)
Need to get back to exercise and force myself to spend time with friends to stop this turning into a further decline

Gosh we all need a big hug at the moment don't we? 
     

Suitcase
x


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## Maya7 (Sep 9, 2008)

Suity - I  really hope that you can get the sparkle you need into your life to help you do everything you want to do with enthusiasm ... for what its worth it strikes me that you are the sort of person who will get there...you have been through so much especially this last year- so please be gentle with yourself and give yourself time to heal and move forward...

Full moon - am so frustrated for you!!  can the clinic not make alternative arrangements to get someone in to complete the procedure they have contracted with you?!  Can they even do this?  They cant do what they like just because there is no other clinic on the island ... would gentle insistence work?  If not, they should compensate you in some way.       as you dont need this nonsense.

Maya


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## Mifi (Sep 27, 2008)

Great idea!!!! I up for that thread although at the moment stumped at what I can actually do to enjoy and take time out - if I shop I just want to buy baby stuff, if I watch TV it doesn't seem to interest me much unless it is about pg (totally addicted to Sky Living Deliver Me series) and I find it very difficult to read a book as my concentration is awful. I was out on the town a couple of weeks ago and I hated it just couldnt find conversation in common with people as I suppose I I have had for so long is work and TTC  

Defo great idea for new thread


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## Mifi (Sep 27, 2008)

Maya

It would be very nice to get some compo out of them but I am far to scared to upset them as I need them so much for future   Doesn't help me feel any better though   I do assume that the cancelation was the absolute last choice that they had


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## muddypaws (Apr 10, 2008)

I'm outraged about the cinic . After all that, they should have helped by finding another clinic or something. It's outrageous....have they said why the person has had to leave? If it's a personal problem that was unavoidable then not much to do but for any other reason, that's c**p. Definitely better not be paying for this....just read your last post....you won't upset them, you cannot afford to be coy. Assertiveness is appropriate here, don't worry about standing up for yourself...it's essential in this game.

Anyway, LWC is a great idea....go for it if you can. Good luck...mind you the going out and getting a bit plastered and finding a nice man for the night sounds appealing too!!  

Muddy x


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## Maya7 (Sep 9, 2008)

Full moon - i dont want to add to your pressure at the minute, but are you sure that a bit of gentle insistence couldnt have them reconsider making alternative arrangements?... If you think not, then you are the best judge of that and in the best position to make the decision to accept things... If you gently but firmly insist though, i cannot see how they would hold that against you...


Maya


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## Annaleah (May 14, 2008)

FM - aaarghhh sent you a PM before I spotted the details of what happened.  I echo what Muddy and Maya have said 

Sparkle... and getting it back.  I took up dancing last spring coincidentally just before my first cycle.  It's the only thing that has kept me sane. Keeps me slim, socialising and wriggling hips with some rather delicious men!! I had to stop when I was 75 follies full because of the risk of tortion of my ovaries and for a while after EC and FET.  Just went back to dancing this week, although I was devastated as I just didn't want to be a position to be able to dance it was a good bit of escapism and allows me to be in contact with lots of people and not have to talk to them.  I would recommend it absolutely - can't concentrate on TV or books and if I stay at home i'm either wandering aimlessly or on the internet (the latter seems to stop me feeling at the moment) but I seem to be able to dance.
x


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## Maya7 (Sep 9, 2008)

Annaleagh - am so glad you have found something to help recover the sparkle ... dancing has such a positive uplifting effect and you can adjust your tempo according to how you re feeling... 

Take care
Maya


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## Annaleah (May 14, 2008)

Just spotted Felix's thread on dancing ...I think classes should be on prescription.  If I didn't dance I would just be hiding myself away right now.


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## indekiwi (Dec 23, 2008)

Annaleah, I have visions of you strutting and grooving with the best of them - good for you!

FM, also just sent a PM but having now read what happened I'm with the others on this - why can't the clinic fly someone on to the island for you? You can't be the only one affected.  HFEA should hear about this.  I just can't believe that anyone could be treated like this, it's an absolute outrage.  It's not just the money, it's the emotional roller coaster and the hope that they've just snatched away.  After the way they bungled telling you about your egg recipient, it now looks like a really unprofessional set up.  I'm so mad for you     .  You poor darling, I'm so very sorry.

A-Mx


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## kylecat (Oct 18, 2007)

Really sorry full moon that your cycle has been cancelled - the other girls have offered you excellent advice. It is simply outrageous.  

Annaleah - glad that the dancing is helping you. I used to do Mojive dancing last year but ending up giving it up when I started the IVF. It was great fun.  

Kylecat xxx


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## Mifi (Sep 27, 2008)

Thanks guys for all your suggestions and support - after a whole evening crying over my laptop and down the phone I am pretty exhausted  

Good night all

Hugs a plenty  

Love FM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


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## madmisti (Sep 1, 2008)

FM - we've spoken tonight but just wanted to send more hugs    and remind you I am here if you need to call - anytime!!!

Think idea for thread is a good one too. I haven't been on such an emotional rollercoaster as others on the TTC journey - but have in other areas of my life, and have had severe depression in past. Last year I went along to a 'singing for the terrified' evening class and from that I am now in a Community Choir, plus rehearsing for a new musical written by a West End Musical Director ( and the MD has also worked in West End, with Andrew Llloyd-Webber etc - both are teaching us) plus rehearsing to appear on stage with a group at a local Beatles Day -so out singing three nights a week  . I am not a good singer by any means - all these projects are just for 'bathroom singers'. Like dancing, it is somehow good for the soul - always come out feeling better than when I went in. ANd have made new friends too. Just another idea to throw in the pot ( and for those of you who think you can't do it - look at the title of the class I went to - if I can do it..............!)

Hugs to all those in need -remember we are strong, courageous, resourceful women to have even started the TTC alone journey   

Love
Misti xx


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