# 3-in-1 test that 'virtually guarantees IVF success' could be available in months



## Emnige

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2050297/IVF-test-guarantees-success-available-months.html

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## urbangirl

It says it will cost £2,000.  There is a cheaper way, the American method where you just throw everything in because only the good ones are likely to 'stick' anyway.  With younger women you have the problem of the possibility of multiple births but if you've older or have a very low amh that's unlikely to happen to you.


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## Caz

Sadly chucking everything in is not an option over here due to UK laws on numbers allowed to be transferred. And that is all to do with reducing costs on the NHS through multiple births. 
However if this really is as good as it sound sit would still significantly reduce costs for many, as so many more ladies will get positive results the first time out, and less non-viable pregnancies.
Therein is also a benefit of this way, because the emotional impact would be significantly reduced if you didn't have the pain of negative after negative to cope with. 

C~x


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## urbangirl

There's nothing to stop people going abroad....  The problem with the HFEA limits on no. of embryos is that it isn't a good option for older women who are likely to have a large number of chromosomally abnormal eggs.  It is very possible that all three of the three they are allowed to put in will be non-viable.  The test is good for that, but I think the American way is just as good, older women can put more in, say 5,  and there's more likelihood that a good one will be in there- I'd rather do that than pay a whopping £2k on top of already high fees.  But I agree the test is good for younger women who want to avoid multiple births but not reduce their chances.


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## Caz

Not everyone wants to go abroad and for some, it's not the cheapest option.  
No, the HFEA ruling on numbers of embryos is not very flexible - not just for older ladies but anyone who has more difficulty getting one to implant for whatever reason. Quite frustrating how rigid if is. Although with this test I guess you would at least know if the three you're having put back are good or not. I can't imagine any treatment in the UK with this added on would be more expensive than flights to the U.S. plus the costs of treatment over there. Well, maybe at the ARGC! 
Personally I'd rather have one embyro I know has a 80% + chance of implanting, than three, four or more that may or may not be good. If you do produce several  good/useable embryos then you can have one put back and you have options for sibling cycles in future which would make it cost effective as FET tends to be cheaper. 
That said, if your a poor responder or older and produce less eggs / not so good quality eggs, chances are you won't have enough eggs/embryos to have the option to have loads put back to maximise your chances anyway. Unless you're going Donor egg and, yes, it seems you can get those pretty cheaply abroad in some places. 

C~x


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## urbangirl

You don't have to go to America to have IVF the US method- anywhere outside the HFEA's influence will do - and that means most of the world....


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## littlerachywantsababy

What do we make of this guys n girls? Hope or waffle?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2050297/IVF-test-guarantees-success-available-months.html

X

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## Galadriel

Good news. We are on 2ww for array cgh cycle. Anything that improves the success of array cgh is a good thing.


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## taylorlisa

it is still going to cost another £2000 on top of ivf fee's and noting is guaranteed! you also have to find a private hospital as its not being rolled out every where straight away. i would love it to work though!


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## Maisyz

I've begged for CGH but they won't do it because I don't prodcue enough eggs so apparently I don't rate bothering wasting time on


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## Galadriel

Array cgh has it's place for younger women too. On 2ww at the moment. If it is bfp (please please please) at least we know it is unlikely to have Downs again.
I would pay £6000 per cycle several times over to avoid that unbearable pain.


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## Galadriel

Yes you do need to be a good responder. I had 21 eggs, 19 mature, 12 fertilised. 8 were looking good on day 3 to biopsy, 4 were normal but one stopped developing. So out of 21 eggs we got 3 normal blastocysts. It was a very stressful process but if you only started with a few eggs it would be incredibly stressful.
Out of interest only one that made blast was abnormal so going to blast is a good way to weed out the abnormals.


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## Maisyz

but again unless you have lots you aren't allowed to take the decision to leave them to go to blast you just get them shoved back in


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## Essex Girl

urbangirl said:


> It says it will cost £2,000. There is a cheaper way, the American method where you just throw everything in because only the good ones are likely to 'stick' anyway.


Not necessarily. Some abnormal ones are quite persistent. Out of 15 eggs that my donor sister produced, 9 fertilised, the two best looking ones were put back and the one that stuck had an extra chromosome!

Galashiel - I'm sorry to read about your T21 angel and hope that everything goes well for you this time. x

I'm no longer doing TX but my feeling is that if it significantly improves your chances of success, another £2000 on this extra testing may be money well spent. You can get through a lot of money on unsuccessful TXs, as we know.

EG X


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## Lil Elvis

I know the Care Group were the first to use Array CGH but I haven't heard whether it now incorporates the new tests, or even whether the additional testing has been approved for treatment. I was a rubbish responder otherwise as I was just turned 40 I was definitely going to opt for this realsing that the problem was more than likely chromasomally imperfect eggs. Care require a minimum of 8 embryos to proceed with the tests as there is a risk that a 'good' embryo could itself be damaged by the testing. As I only achieved 1 embryo each time the only sensible thing was to put it straight back as there was no point in spending an extra £2,000 to find out if they were OK - I just had to sit out the 2 weeks instead.

Maisy - you are obviously upset about the treatment options you were given. Perhaps you could raise these at your review so that they can explain why testing or blast transfer was not deemed appropriate. I am sure they had your best interests at heart or they could just have taken the extra money for the additional testing. I know you must be feeling very down right now but preparing your questions ahead of a review will help for you to get it out and for you and your consultant to come up with a new plan that you are happy with. I hope that you find success down whatever path you and your husband choose to take.

Caroline


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## urbangirl

Putting them all in is not 100 foolproof, I wouldn't say that, but genetically abnormal embs are unlikely to stick, that's why there are so many miscarriages at this age.  I know someone who suffered a trisomy so I don't underestimate how devastating that is, I just put, for information purposes, that there are alternatives which is important to know, and each individual makes up their mind.  A US consultant told me also that due to mosaicism genetic testing can mark out an embryo as being abnormal where in fact it would turn out fine, and also that the process has a small risk of damaging an embryo- i.e. that you might lose a perfectly good one. It's a very low risk, rather like having an amnio. (Maybe the newer test doesn't have this drawback though..?) Everything needs to be weighed up, especially if you simply don't have the extra £2,000. A further point is that US clinics have some of the best results in the world, simply because of the larger numbers that they put back.  THe UK needs a test like this more because of the SET rule.  My personal feeling is that older women don't need to worry so much about multiple births, but of course everyone has their own view and will make up their own minds.


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## Sheilaweb

This has been available in Australia for a while now, certainly Aussie scientists made this breakthrough, as reported in the press -  but I don't know how 'effective' it is, as it's still a relatively new technique.


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## Lil Elvis

Urbangirl,

There is no SET rule in the UK. The HFEA are encouraging clinics to reduce the number of multiple births and many PCTs (for NHS funded cycles) will only allow SET (though two for FET cycles). The clinic I was treated at were happy to replace 2 embryos up to age 40 and 3 for 40+ as long as own egg. The US might very well have excellent results but they also led to 'Octomum'. Treatment criteria and outcomes vary across the world and sadly this means that those seeking fertility treatment need to be very pro-active. On the Care message boards there are many ladies (mainly over 40) who have utilised Array CGH testing, some successful and some who found that though they had a large number of embryos they were abnormal and not viable. This is an expensive test but it either gives success or a degree of closure for older ladies who would otherwise continue having failed cycles with all the hearbreak that brings.

Caroline xxx


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## Sheilaweb

Being an older lady with a crappy return of eggs, (due to a high ovary being unreachable without GA) I'd rather take my chance, and let nature take it's course - rather than put my precious embryo(s) at risk through testing, hence my feelings towards not having any downs test including an amnio.  But with all things this will come down to personal choice.  If I was younger and had a load of embryos to choose from, of course, I'd want to do everything I could to maximise my chances. 

I hope with all my heart that this process helps to put an end to the lottery of fertility treatment as it stands, my heart breaks when friends get negatives - I just thank the heavens above that I was one of the lucky ones to be blessed.

Sheila


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## Elizzybeth

Well from my experience in the US fertility world - the reputable clinics do not put back in large amounts of embryos. The norm seems to be 1-2 unless you are older, have poor quality embryos or other factors - then they may consider 3 or in rare cases 4. However, with donor embryos from younger women they still prefer 1-2 as well as with blasts vs. a 3 day transfer. 

What struck me about the story was "Only quarter of 40,000 women who currently have IVF succeed". That's depressing!!  If clinics are quoting higher success rates than this (and many seem to be) then how do they come up with 25%?  Sigh....


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## urbangirl

A reputable US clinic may well put back more than 3; 4 or 5 say.  It all depends on the individual case.  I'm not talking about cases where they throw 10 in there!  The point is that there are always alternatives and there is nothing wrong with knowing all the possibilities available. Everyone can make up their own mind.


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## Caz

Elizzybeth said:


> What struck me about the story was "Only quarter of 40,000 women who currently have IVF succeed". That's depressing!! If clinics are quoting higher success rates than this (and many seem to be) then how do they come up with 25%? Sigh....


I think that's because it's an average of all clinics. If you look at all clinics in the UK as a whole, then the 25% success rate is about right (might be slightly higher now). But individual clinics have variable success rates - some are much lower and some are much higher. The measure the HFEA publishes (live birth rates) is how IVF success is measured in the UK, although clinic will tell you pregnancy rates if you ask. In clinics outside the UK unless local regulations exist, they can quote whatever they want as a success rate - either live birth or pregnancy rate or whatever. If you wanted to do a true comparison you need to do like for like comparison on treatment type, age range of patient etc. etc.

C~x


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