# Finding a Role!!



## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi there
You get to a place when you know that maybe you cannot face going for treatment. You face the inevitable that it has sort of come to an end and that you cannot face any further treatment. You then sit there for how many days, weeks, months and years trying to come to terms with your childlessness. You feel maybe happy with the things that you have in place after a struggle. I think to a point that maybe my life is not as bad as i thought? I can go on holiday, i can swim, walk, socialise when i like!! I can have a bath, read a book and generally go to bed, lay in late and nurse how many hangovers as i please. Ummm doesn't seem a bad life at all?
But what i find difficult to deal with is trying to find a place for that empty feeling? Finding a role in life where i would feel wanted and loved, hopefully as you would only feel with a child? There are all sides to being a woman and i have been told by my friend who is also childless. That eventually that you can find a role and nurture that need.
All very well but how do you find it?
How do you find it when there is still that empty bit missing in your life?
Is it really about children, or is it societies way of making you feel so left out? Feeling isolated from the majority that have familes. The role of a parent, the role of a grandparent. Ah you can be a good aunt and show love, but there is always that feeling of the children's need for their mother/father/grandparent.
Maybe you can find it through your pet, which i have done to a point. I love mine dearly and think why do i want to rock the boat, as she is gorgeous and shows bag of love. Then i panick i only have her for a short time and then its goes back just to being the two of you...
I must admit i have found this a little hard, easier as time has gone by....but i suppose thats all part of the IF cycle and journey. This post is more for discussion because i would like to see if you have any good suggestions to address this?
love astridx


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi Sweetheart, 

I just pm-ed you

Jq xxx


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## jomac (Oct 27, 2006)

Dear Astrid
Hard questions.
I do know how you feel because I've spent a lot of time wandering what to do with that "space" inside.
It's good you asked the question because it makes me feel not so alone and gives me the chance to put my feelings into words.
So for what it's worth here it goes...
When faced with something like IF you want to know where to go, what fills the gap. Lately I've begun to feel that for me there may not be one thing that fills the gap and (for me the scary bit) that the answer lies not so much in the destination as in the journey. That the process is the healer. The process is painful and it would be easier to have a map with the destination at the end - but then the journey would not be ours to discover.
I do not feel that I do well at this journey and sometimes I spend many months floundering (in tears often). Sharing this place with you wonderful people has helped my journey a lot and I can feel the love and support across the many miles. I suppose that's one of the things with a journey the unexpected people you meet and the unexpected things that happen. It's not always pleasant but at least it's ours.

Thinking of you with much love Jo


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## Maggie Mae (Mar 2, 2006)

Astrid and my other fiar ladies, 

I could see on Sunday you were building up to a post with this one Astrid!

I'm gong to mull this one over while I do some gardening with my mum today. But, I really had to say how much I feel that this feeling of 'floundering around for a role' is actually imposed upon us by the society we live in. How often, do we actually stop to admire a woman who has lived a childfree/less life? I beleive this is such an issue that one of the things I was planning to do for the workshops was have an image board of wome who had a meaningful life without it... Helen Mirren, Beatrix Potter, Mother Teresa, Audrey Hepburn, just to get us started..... Prejudice against people who don't conform has always existed, and although we are on this site by virtue of the fact that we very much did want children, can we take some comfort from being pioneers, and setting a good exaple, and sticking up two fingers to conformity?

Will be back to this one....!

Love, 

Leoarna x


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## pipkin (Jan 14, 2005)

Hey Astrid  

Yep this is a huge question and I don't think there is a 'one size fits all' answer for this but here are my thoughts on the subject.

We all agreed at the meet up that it is natural to try to 'fill' the gap but does it ever really work - sadly I don't think it does.  On the other hand I really think that often life is not always 'greener' on the other side and that we might be surprised to find that we would miss your old lives if we had children.  

I think also that unfortunately it is only natural to 'pop' (do you remember that word from the meeting   ) on the 'rose coloured glasses' and not see life with kids for what it is - of course you have the wonderful times but I think often it is about 'frustration with tantrums, clearing up poo and wee, and not being able to do your own thing.  Of course I would not be saying any of this if I was not facing a childless future but perhaps we need to 'brainwash' ourselves into really believing this is not really what we want!!  Of course there can sometime be a strain on relationships too when kids come along and I have seen this with friends who have them (however to contradict myself, there is nothing like IF to put a strain too so this is head waffle to a certain extent!   )

You mentioned that 'empty space' ...... I got the feeling from Jq (   ) at the meeting that the feeling that there is an empty space gets smaller with time (albiet very very slowly).  Here is how I visualised that - the 'empty space' might start off the size of the Grand Canyon but gradually over the years and months of 'living through it' the Canyon begins to get just a tad smaller?  I think it is good to fill the hole with a full life (which you have) but there is nothing that fits a child shapped hole like your child so why do we search when time might eventually plug the gap for us?!

One thing did hit me in your post and that was when you said that you only have your little dog for a short time and how do you cope when it goes back to the two of you - I don't know the answer to that one but I felt very sad reading that and knowing how much you love that little 'furry kid'   and how much you would miss her ...... but just enjoy her Astrid and try to deal with the future when it is here.  If you worry about the future now you are missing the lovely times you are having with Meg (rolling around playing in the grass and pooping on your kitchen floor   ) and of course the good times with your husband too  

Of course none of this is ever easy and unfortunately we approach infertility from the heart (and not the head) so you can't just switch of feelings and worries so all I can really give you is a huge understanding hug and hope the 'answers' come flooding in for you ...

Pip Pip for now ...
Pipkin xxx


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## irisheyes (Feb 2, 2005)

I too am not totally sure how to do this Astrid.I am always looking for ways to show that i am doing something worthwhile. I used to think i had found it with teaching but in last few yrs with big IF issues it has lost its shine for me.

I did a year of nursing before i taught and although it wasnt right for me at the time i think it might be now.In my early 20s i really wanted to work in childrens/maternity . Of course now i'm not sure i could as it would be so hard. But i think eventually for me it will be something related to children even voluntarily that i would do. I would prefer to work with kids age 4- 10 i think: cuts out all thr babies and teenagers at either end of the spectrum.I have been thinking of looking into an art therapy course and doing that.I have also considered doing a counselling course.

Some days/months are harder to fill that gap than others- on the other side here's 2 stories:

1. My dh mentionned last night about an aquaintance who had split up with his wife. They had 3 kids - the 18 year old, and 2 younger kids,one of whom has downs and the other something like cerebral palsy!! Imagine coping with that too!!

2. I was in M&S  the other day waiting at the checkout when i noticed this woman holding a baby.At first i thought (as usual) "Lucky you"!! However on 2nd glance She looked really knackered and her dh stormed off on her when she seemed to be saying "No" just once too often to whatever he was suggesting!! So i suppose all is not rosy in parents gardens too!! (as i know with a teenager around).

So i guess we just try and make ourselves feel better by enjoying the things we do like doing to the full interspersed with filling the gaps when we are really struggling.Anyone else got magic suggestions??


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## NixNoo (Aug 19, 2005)

Astrid – I know what you mean about your pet, I often wonder how I’ll be when our darling surrogate baby goes.  I know it’s not the same but it’s somehow the closest thing we have to babying something.

I think society has a lot to do with the way we feel, it’s almost like the magazines portraying the stick models that we are all brainwashed into thinking are the norm, so if we’re over a size zero we must all be obese! Are we all supposed to be sheep following the same track cos life really isn’t like that.

I’ve also wondered many times whether I have just missed being pg or whether I’ve actually missed being a mother?  But then again, maybe I, (like all of us) just scrutinise everything due to IF.

I do think time makes things easier but I still worry that it’s only for ‘now’ that it’s easier, and being as my DH is 9 years older than me, I constantly worry about being on my own but then feel annoyed because bringing children into the world shouldn’t be to stop my loneliness.  I also worry that the ‘hole’ that needs filling will be bigger if anything happens to him or my parents (my mum in particular) and that I must search for things to fill it quick.  Having said that, I guess it’s them that I have filled it with.  I try to support my mum as much as possible as my dad is disabled and also now has dementia and I guess out of my 2 sisters and brother, I tend to take over as I’m the only one without children.  My DH looks to me for support now that his parents have gone especially as he had such a bad time looking after his mum for years.

I’ve just gone away and read this back – what a load of waffle, sorry I’ve gone off on a tangent completely but I’ve written it now so obviously needed to get it off my chest!  Don’t think I’ve actually answered anything though!

I do think that some people who have had a family don’t always have what we do, this came out in our meet up.  When their children have grown up and left home, they are back to 2 again and sometimes find themselves wondering who they are and what they have in common.  Not like us who have grown through our lives and relationship together and become stronger as a couple.

I’m going now before I waffle even more.
Nix


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Astrid, you asked


> How do you find it when there is still that empty bit missing in your life?


What is it you or any of us are seeking exactly? I don't know about any of you lovely lot, I find that what I seek seems to change from week to week, month to month! Sometimes that empty bit is like a great yawning chasm, sometimes its like the size of a plug hole!

I know for many years I was seeking what eventually proved to be unattainable - a family of my own. As I said at the meet on Sunday all I ever wanted was to have a family of my own with a man that I love.

Now as time has gone on, I am unsure as to whether I still want the same things. I want my man of course  but the family? I think I don't want a family - but in the next breath I crave a familiy and think to myself 'yes, I could do this' but then its back to square one again where I think 'no no no'!

I gave up on IVF as one of my concerns (amongst the many zillions of concerns) were at what cost would I persue further treatments or mine and my DH happiness? Yeah, I could have carried on with donor eggs, but to be honest I wanted off the rollercoaster, I had simply had enough. So had DH, although I know if I were to say I wanted to have one more try he would back me 110% bless him. That is definitely not going to happen though - I know that much for sure!

I have a SD and she is an unruly typical teen a lot of the time, but sometimes she can be wonderful as well. However, she isn't my child and I don't feel like her step mother. I see myself as another adult she can come to if she needs any advice or support which is a similar position I am in to a lot of my friends kids who are about the same age as her. She already has a mother and a step father and a biological father and lots of other family, therefore I do not feel any particular need to fulfill any 'set' kind of role. If I did I would be setting myself up for a massive fall because she is not my child 

So - back to the original question our lovely Astrid posed - and how do any of us bridge that gap? I am really not sure - but as we spoke about at the weekend it can be all too easy to throw ourselves into lots of things thinking we will be too busy to think about what we are missing instead of breathing a little and giving ourselves time to simply 'be'.

I have found talking amongst like minded people helps, and that being kind to me and not taking on too much at any one time helps also. I also try not to dwell too much on the future because I have no idea of what awaits me there so why torture myself worrying about things I have no control over?

For me at the moment I just want to be happy, healthy, for my knee to get better and to have the love of a good man (or a pain in the **** as he is affectionately known) in my life. Ask me again next week - it'll probably be a completely different list of things that I want there!

Thanks for allowing me to splurge here!

Love to all
Emcee xxx


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Hello.

What well thought out replies! I hope that gives you some support Astrid, you give so much to us all.

It's good that I don't have anything much else to add because my back still hurts and I can't sit here too long!

Sore back meant I sat in front of the TV watching c***p earlier and I watched something I would never normally have looked at. It was about competitive parents who were always bragging about their own children and putting down the others. Then I watched a horror film called "Strictly Baby Ballroom" about more competitive parents who their own kids said were "push, push pushing" them to meet their own needs and ambition. In contrast to the loving support we offer one another here and at Sunday's meeting, these people were so awful! I felt very smug about us lot! Maybe one thing that helps fill that space is real friendship coming into our lives and our own compassion that heals us while we try to support one another.

Jo - I think your thoughts on the journey were very wise. On Sunday I wished there were not so many miles to NZ, as it would have been so great to meet you. I am so glad you feel supported here.

Leoarna - fab idea for your workshop. Maybe we could all suggest women for your image board? 

Pipkin, you are right that the "hole" gradually got smaller for me, a mixture of time's healing, learning to nurture the good things in my life and most of all love. I think you and Emcee were right too about letting the future stay in the future.

Irisheyes, you are right that some times are harder to get through than others. I just try and remind myself that easier times will come round again, but it is hard to remember that on the worst days isn't it?

Nix, where was the waffle? I didn't spot it!

Emcee, you are a breath of fresh air! I did laugh when you wrote that your wish list will be different next week!

LOL to all,

Jq


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Dear All
Sorry that i haven't replied.....i have read and re-read your replies and i think they are fantastic and so interesting. They were all valid replies and i am definately taking your comments on board. Infact i have been thinking about each of them over the last few days and i am definately trying to look at things with a different insight. I suppose its all part of it all, but it also helps by addressing any sort of demons that arise in life. I also think by sharing with everyones input who really understand, eventually there will be answers that will shape the future? I am sure that this has been part of our lives at some stage or still is?.
I want to thank you all individually for taking the time and getting some valid wisdom from my fellow friends...

Lots of love astridxx


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## flipper (Jul 7, 2004)

Sorry for being so late to this one ladies (as usual). I've been really interested to read the posts and it got me thinking.

John Lennon is quoted as saying "life is something that happens while your busy making plans" and to some extent I think this can be applied to this topic.  For me finding a role happened whilst I was busy worrying that there was no role, it just kinda happened around me.

Initially I couldn't see it because I was expecting the "role" to be something absolute and tangible, like devoting my life to breeding rare ducks, taking up some sort of extreme sport, running for Parliament or something equally daft. I eventually realised that my role is to be me and to live as happy and fulfilled life as possible (albeit kidless).

Like Emcee, I now blow hot and cold on the family concept, some days I struggle to think of anything worse than adding to our household and other days I'd kill for the opportunity (metaphorically speaking of course).  I guess that's a part of the process of the hole getting smaller.

Anyway, I'd like to add to the list of successful childless women and throw in Shirley Willaims (Lib Dem MP now in the Lords), Barbara Castle (ex Education Minster in the Wilson Government and renown thinker), Margaret Beckett (current Foreign Secretary) and Oprah Winfrey.

flipper


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Dear Flipper,

I thought this bit of your post was fantastic! Sums up how I feel!

"_I eventually realised that my role is to be me and to live as happy and fulfilled life as possible" _

That realisation is such an achievement!

Lots of love

Jq xxx


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## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

Hi girls  

Astrid, your original post rang such huge bells with me and provided so much food for thought.

I often think that the deep after-effects of infertility are like the ripples spreading out from a large stone being thrown into a deep pond (maybe more like a tidal wave!), it can effect so many aspects of your life that other people would not be able to predict.

I think this problem of having a 'role' is one of the hardest and most unexpected ripples from the infertility splash. I have spent the last 3 years of tx battling with the concept of who I am and what am I going to be.  Part of my future life with Dh had always been that i was going to be a mum. 

As it became clear that I was never going to give birth I began to feel I was having an identity crisis! Where do I fit in the world? What does life mean? etc etc. 
The world seems to have specific expectations of women to be mums...where did that leave me now we finally faced the truth. 

Some of this uneasiness about what I feel my life should be, is due to an inherent need inside me to nurture and care. Some of it is due to coming from a large catholic family of strong women who's primary roles were as mothers.... and role models to me.

Some of this is down to the way society trains you to have certain expectations of yourself as a female. All around us society as a whole makes the assumption that 
'woman = motherhood', its everywhere....in adverts, on cereal packets, in sitcoms, soap operas, chat shows.....the assumption is that if you are a woman then motherhood is central to your life. That it somehow defines being a woman. 

I see the same problem for my sister, who is 30, single, and the only one of her friends not married with kids. Its really distressing for her in a simialr, but different , way to me.

Like you Astrid, I try and fill my 'hole' with my fur-babies. Iam not allowed a cat and can't have a dog cos of lifestyle, but I have 2 guinea pigs, and a degu (like a giant gerbil...but very intelligent!). They have been an absolute god send during tx. On those days when you cannot face getting out of bed, when nothing seems to matter...there they are looking at you as if to say 'I'm hungry! Get a grip woman!'. They force you to face the world and interact. 

Flo the Degu is absolutely ancient...she is nearly 6 years old now! She has good days and bad days and basically could die anytime...tonight or in a week, or a month, or 6 months time. !

I know they are only rodents but she means as much to me as any cat or dog does to other people. She was a rescue animal, rescued from bad circumstances, and we have nursed her through so many health problems, and she has always been there needing us, and in her own way she has been nursing us along too, constantly reaffirming that there are still joys in life, and that she needs us. I am petrified about the effect her going will have on me. Thats why I bought the guinea pigs...I was scared of having an animal shaped hole as well as a child-shaped hole!! 

Well, goodness...what a load of waffle! but like I said you really hit a chord with me. Its really helpful to have heard what others have said on this subject. 

Big hugs to you and your fur-baby!

Ermey xxxx

P.S.... Can add Tracy Emin to your list!


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## s.a.f. (May 20, 2005)

Regarding the list of famous childless women, I have an article from the Spring 2006 "More to Life" Newsletter on this topic. 

It lists:

Actresses: Stockard Channing, Linda Evans and Victoria Principal

Singers: Stevie Nicks, Dolly Parton, Debbie Harry

"Dancing On Ice" coach - Jayne Torvil

From History: Jane Austin.

(by the way, Leonarda I can give you the contact details of the author of this article as she was collecting names to add to her list!).

S.A.F.


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Thx for the list S.A.F


Also to add to the list Helen Mirren!!
And George Cluney...i am aware that he cannot have children, but he and his partner choose not too..I am also happy to practice with him whenever he wants!!!
Also Norris off Coronation Street!! My hero!!! 

love astridxx


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