# Grrrr 2ww again - different to last time, any advice?



## *Cupcake* (Jun 17, 2009)

Hello Ladies,

I haven't posted much this time around - last time I drove myself a bit mad!

I'm now 5dp2dt - 2 x 4 cells. I felt so positive last week, but seem to have lost my PMA over the weekend and just feel empty.

I've got white/clear discharge (sorry TMI) which I didn't have last time, and no pain or twinges unlike last time - although same old horrible cyclogest side effects - grrrr.

Any advice from anyone? 

Much love and luck, Cupcake xxx


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## lizziek (Feb 23, 2006)

Hi Cupcake

I don't think I've posted since my 3rd IVF as preferred to drive myself completely mad in the privacy of my own home without sharing my neurotic woes with everyone here. Think it's normal to go somewhat doolally during the 2ww and would like to argue that anyone who doesn't is obviously not part of the human race.

Have no advice to offer, just wanted to tell you that you're not alone. Have had a bit of experience with 2wws and they never get any easier. The only common factor that they've all had is that I've always been rather giddy and buzzing with positive 'I'm making a baby (or possibly two) thoughts' for the first week and then come crashing down into a pit of bleak depression in week 2 where I torture myself with obsessing over non-existent symptoms. Life at the moment goes something like this "my boobs still feel a bit sore but only at night" - almost certainly not hormonal but a result of the constant prodding I subject them to to see if they are feeling sore, "ooo felt a vague twinge somewhere in my lower abdomen" - probably wind, "better check my knickers to see if any blood/abundant discharge/surprises" - have never yet had an implantation bleed and from what I can recall from previous pregnancies there was no discernible change in discharge at this point in 2ww, "it's 5.30am, I know, I'll pee on one of the 50 cheapo pregnancy tests I bought from ebay at the start of the month" - so I can then torture myself with the fact that it is a big fat BFN and spend lots of time trying to calculate whether or not I shouldn't already have sufficient HCG in my system at 8dp2dt, 9dp2dt, 10dp2dt or (and this is even more fun) keep picking up used test and squinting at it to decide if there isn't, perhaps, just the slightest smudge of a line, then comparing said (almost certainly just an) evaporation line with evaporation line on yesterday's test. 
Not sure what the cyclogest side effects are as I  have the joy of injecting myself in the bum every night with prontogest which leaves big painful lumps which then seem to clump together into one big even more painful lump. 

You are not alone.

Liz xxx


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## *Cupcake* (Jun 17, 2009)

Your post made me smile, Liz - thank you!

I'm definitely identifying with pretty much all your thoughts - I think I've reached the week 2 crash and I'm not normally an obsessive freak, but those hormones don't half get you in the end!

Wishing you every success. x


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## Miss Daisy (May 30, 2006)

oh my god liz your post really made me laugh (sorry if it wasn't meant to)... .but it was like reading about myself (and i am sure there are many many others that feel the same way). the evaporation line, how much hcg in the urine etc etc.  WHY DO WE DO IT TO OURSELVES!!!  I have said on a previous post, that I think the only way to cope with these two weeks is to be "put out" and wake up on OTD. Its just a thought....

lots of luck everyone
xxxx


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## lizziek (Feb 23, 2006)

Miss Daisy, you have hit upon a brilliant idea. Shall suggest to my clinic that next time round they knock me out  from egg collection right up until OTD, thus eliminating not just the 2wt (two week torture) but also the fear that my ridiculously few eggs (2 this time round) will not fertilise/divide/make it through to the day of transfer. Genius. Thank you.

Find that laughing about this whole miserable experience is the only way to stop myself sobbing on the bathroom floor. 

Will be keeping everything crossed for both you on Wednesday and Cupcake on the 3rd.

xxx


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## Miss Daisy (May 30, 2006)

so funny TWT (the thread on here should be renamed). Being knocked out from egg collection is even better as who wants to see how (possibly) crap the little embryos/frosties are on the screen.  this time around i gave my partner strict instructions to "order" the embryologist to not talk about my embryos at all on the transfer day. I then also told her this when I checked in to which she just replied nodding and saying "yes your partner did tell me". She must have been sick of us going on about it all morning.  I didnt look at the screen, took no pictures and "told" the consultant that I "didnt want to hear a thing about quality".  He was probably pleased about this - he must get fed up with people banging on about grades!!!!! I decided that if i saw them, i would probably just feel negative the whole time and that not seeing them would alleviate the negativity.

I was wrong. It's exactly the same.!

As hard as one tries, its impossible to keep chirpy the whole flippin time.

Good luck to you too for 31st xxxx


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## lizziek (Feb 23, 2006)

Never seen my embryos (never been given the chance) but would imagine that there's not a lot of difference between them and everyone else's, so I make do with pulling up images on google and pretending they're mine. Think 2wt is going to be rubbish whatever we do. No, forget that. The consumption of alcohol would definitely make it a bit more bearable (and help with the staying chirpy) but ...

xxx


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## Miss Daisy (May 30, 2006)

oh, i didnt realise that not everyone gets to see theirs on a screen.  My sister had ivf three times and also saw her embryos on a screen each time. Of course two of her IVFs were successful and she has had two children as a result. of course none of my attempts have been. Not that I am bitter or anything!  I thought that was common practice to show them. But you are right, it doesnt really matter, even if you see them and they look good (i.e. as good as the grade 1 ones found on google search ) it  doesnt guarantee diddly squat.  im liking the alcohol thing... not sure the clinics would agree lol.. but then of course its not them going through it   


xxxx


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## tbarthy (Oct 19, 2009)

Liz and Miss Daisy,

I have enjoyed reading your posts immensely and I also see myself in what you have said!!

Cupcake,

I too am on Cyclogest pessaries, oh, the joy!  And I too have a white/clear discharge and I did when I had them in my previous cycle, so I think this is quite normal and wouldn't worry about it unless there is also an odour.

    

tbarthy


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## sweets x (Jul 28, 2008)

Morning

just thought i'd pop on  to say hi.
I found this thread at 5 this morning on my phone.
I must say it cheered me up a bity as woke up feeling negative   
I'm nearly a week (tomorrow) into a 2dt.
Am on the cycolgest too, think its the wax coating that gives you the discharge.
They are pleasent little suckers aren't they.

Wish you all luck for your test dates
nicola   x


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## lizziek (Feb 23, 2006)

Morning all. Just thought I'd pop back here to wish Miss Daisy all the best for testing today. Looks like another bit fat negative for me -ultra sensitive pee sticks should have been producing two stripes for a couple of days now but am only seeing two when I squint at them in a semi-dark room. Darn. Had a good, old-fashioned 'why me' sob and am now feeling much better and rather looking forward to getting my life back.

Good luck ladies xxx


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## Miss Daisy (May 30, 2006)

morning ladies, thanks lizziek for thinking of me. As usual my TWT ended in a BFSN (have inserted the word stupid in here). Hardly a surprise given that peesticks done on Saturday and monday evening both showed nothing.

Im still keeping fingers crossed for you lizziek, you never know until the test day.   

Personally I think I have run out of tears. I just feel angry to be honest.  I have had 11 frosties inserted over the course of 4 treatments and not one of them has even implanted. So clearly I have a problem with implantation or just that the frosties give up once they go in.  They were strong enough to fertilise, strong enough to freeze and 12 out of 14 survived thawing, so how come they just give up when I have them put back in?  These are the things that go through my head. It doesn't make sense.

I am not even sure I will try again, am so tired of it.  I think to myself that life was fine before I started all this and it can go back to that way surely? But it can't, it's one thing choosing to not have a child, another to repeatedly be shown that you are unable to have a child.  And nobody is saying that I can't have one (the old dangling carrot again). So somehow you have to find a way to move on and not expect life to be the same as it was before.  Maybe adoption is the way forward but at my age, it is unilikely I will be able to adopt a baby/toddler which is ideally what I would like. Mind you none of this is ideal  

Anyway, enough of my ramblings, we could be here all day with my philosophising (is that even a word?)

Best of luck ladies with your tests dates, I will be checking in to see how you all get on
xxxxxxxx


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## lizziek (Feb 23, 2006)

Ooo hate to read and run MissD but am going to do just that (have my parents over visiting). For now just wanted to say how sorry I am. Will write more later. Take care xxx


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## kitten77 (Nov 15, 2006)

oh missd - so sorry hun. and take care of yourself me dear, its all so raw.


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## *Cupcake* (Jun 17, 2009)

So sorry to hear your news Miss Daisy -    You are not alone in feeling the way you do. Give yourself a few days to get rid of all the hormones in your system and feel human again before thinking about what to do next.

It's not over yet Liz, but I know how you must feel too -  

AFM - I'm devoid of all symptoms, just about hanging on in there...


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## lizziek (Feb 23, 2006)

Thanks for the thoughts ladies.
I know that, theoretically, it's still possible for miracles to happen but as self-designated 'queen of the pee-stick' I also know that by now (11dp2dt) I should be getting a positive on ultra-sensitive tests (10hcg+).The times I have been able to get preggers in the past, I've always already 'felt' it by this point too. Anyway, I'll keep testing (and injecting) until Saturday morning just to make sure.

Really feel for you Miss Daisy. Sometimes I just wish that someone would tell us to give up: that there is no hope of us ever having our own child so we can move on. Nobody seems to be able to offer any real answers as to why perfectly lovely embies will not result in perfectly lovely babies. I know everything is probably feeling pretty bleak for you today, but I kinda think that if you've come this far, you can keep on going. Maybe you just need to try some fresh embies.  There's another post here asking whether the whole thing isn't just the luck of the draw and I really believe it is. There are so many variables at play. Maybe something was just a little bit awry when you stimmed last time. Or maybe your Dh's sperm were having a bad day. Who knows. Hope you are going to have a big glass of wine/G&T/pint/spliff (delete according to your tastes).
Take care
xxx


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## Miss Daisy (May 30, 2006)

thanks lizziek, cupcake and kitten77 for all your kind words, you are all right, a few days is needed to see how I feel then.  Actually was thinking more like a few months i.e. will get Christmas out the way and then see where we are... but still leaning towards no more treatment, I guess everyone has their limit. . Anyway, so in my depression yesterday, i booked a little trip away for DP and me which is something anyway.  I remember someone else saying that its a "numbers game" this whole blimmin process, but 0/11 is not very good numbers in my opinion.  It wouldn't seem so bad if even just one of them had implanted, but NADA.  The clinic did say they would start other tests (bloods) if this one was negative, but I haven't asked them to do anything yet.

Queen of peesticks a.k.a. lizziek, I know how you feel, I did the ultra sensitive pee stick thang on Saturday and Monday and had the exact same thoughts i.e. if no sign then, then not a hope of a positive on Weds but for me it was true, might not be for you.  There are loads of posts on here where people have had BFNs right up until the day of testing and then got a BFP, so its not over until its over   .  I will be checking back in to see how how it goes anyway.

good luck everyone, sending you lots of positive vibes
xxxxxxx


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## surromum (Oct 29, 2009)

Lizzie, I agree with Daisy.  It's still early on a 2dt.  I've been POAS over the last two days and I'm 9dp3dt and getting BFNs.

I think the clinics give us an OTD for a good reason, and it's not to torture us!  Some implantation occurs later than others and our embyros were very young when they went in too so may take longer to blast and implant.

I found this today which really helped.  It's timed for my ET on Wed 21st October so yours will be 1 day behind as a 2 day transfer.

1dpt Thurs..embryo is growing and developing
2dpt Friday... Embryo is now a blastocyst
3dpt Saturday....Blastocyst hatches out of shell on this day
4dpt Sunday.. Blastocyst attaches to a site on the uterine lining
5dpt Monday.. Implantation begins as the blastocyst begins to bury in the lining
6dpt Tuesday.. Implantation process continues and morula buries deeper in the lining
7dpt Wednesday.. Morula is completely implanted in the lining and has placenta cells & fetal cells
8dpt Thursday...Placenta cells begin to secret HCG in the blood
9dpt Friday ...More HCG is produced as fetus develops
10dpt Saturday ...More HCG is produced as fetus develops
11dpt Sunday ...HCG levels are now high enough to be immediately detected on HPT 

Keep hoping, according to this chart, yours would only just be releasing HCG now.

I am sending you lots of   and  

Let's hope for a BFP for us both next week - I'm doing mine on Tuesday!!


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## kitten77 (Nov 15, 2006)

surromum - im testing next thursday to!!!! scary stuff. really hope it works this time.


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## ♥AngelBumps♥ (Jan 19, 2008)

I actually thought it was all over as started bleeding around day 12 post transfer... devastated... You can't believe everything you read as I was led to believe an implantation bleed would be many days earlier, until read on a few medical sites that it can happen later! Wish I'd have known this before I cried non-stop that whole weekend thinking it was over! Such a surprise BFP! It was definitely 'just' an implantation bleed and nothing more sinister. Follow your hearts ladies and think POSITIVE! Years of disappointments, 4IVFs and £15k later our dream came true. It was worth all the tears, money and pain. Best of luck!xx


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## surromum (Oct 29, 2009)

Angel that is wonderful news!!! 

I've also read that implantation can occur much later - anytime between 5 - 12 days after implantation.  So that's why we're told not to test early huh?!!!  I really wish I hadn't tested on Day 8 & 9 now, getting those BFN really hit me hard.  But we have to be positive and hope that its just a late starter.  

I'm so pleased for you and hope you enjoy the stage of your very exciting journey!!

Lots and lots of good news coming this month, let's hope it continues for us all


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## ♥AngelBumps♥ (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks SurroMum!  
It means a lot when the more genuine ladies like you give you a personal non-copy/pasted message! We are all in this together! We all want the same thing, don't we?     
Everybody's time comes, I'm convinced of that! I will send as much good luck wishes your way as I can! Keep positive!!    
  
I'm sure there will be lots of good news for all of you!!!


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