# Possibility of changing clinic after 2 failed cycles



## Mena80 (Sep 12, 2018)

Hi everyone,

Just posting here to see if anyone has any helpful insights?

I am 42 and have had two failed cycles at ARGC. I usually seem to respond pretty well for my age during stims and I have had some immune issues which have always been quickly flagged and dealt with by the clinic without heavy treatment. Our problem always seems to lie with unsuccessful transfers. First round transferred 3 day three embryos and second round was a split transfer with 2 day three embryos and one blast on day 5. We know that we are facing problems on two sides firstly with my age and the possibility of poor egg quality and secondly with my husband having high DNA fragmentation levels. Despite this, the clinic has been happy with most aspects of our cycles up to transfer and still consider us as candidates to go with my own eggs.

We are now thinking we may have one round left and considering the idea of changing clinic. Partly motivated by costs and partly by the prospect of a different approach in the lab. 

Has anyone moved from ARGC to another clinic and been happy with the move and if so why?


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## Flyby (Feb 25, 2012)

I know that the clinic that I used in Greece do a sperm improvement protocol with antibiotics, vitamins etc. I don’t know too much about it, only heard there were some great improvements from many that used it, perhaps worth investigating? The clinic is called Serum and you could do a phone consultation?


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## Mena80 (Sep 12, 2018)

Thank you for the reply Flyby, it will definitely look into it.


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## Flyby (Feb 25, 2012)

You’re welcome! It worked for me at the age of 44 with my eggs at Serum! It took a few goes with different ideas but luckily worked in the end. Might also be worth looking at if you’re thinking of changing clinics? X


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## chini (Sep 26, 2017)

I'm so sorry I can't help about moving from ARGC but I can second Flyby in that vitamins and diet can have a massive impact on sperm quality.

We were having morphology of 0-4% and last March DP started on a protocol of Fertilix, vitamin C, zinc, ubiquinol, fish oil capsules and the fertility diet, including avoiding highly refined carbohydrates and cutting down on drinking (aiming to max 4 units per week, although occasionally he did drink more he also had entire weeks of no drinking at all to even those out). I've also been recommended Condensyl and Proxeed Plus supplements which could be used instead of Fertilix. Anyway, on our last cycle we were astonished to hear the day of EC that the sperm quality was totally within normal parameters and they were able to use IVF instead of ICSI!

It's also worth looking into supplements for egg quality - if you haven't read the book It Starts with the Egg by Rebecca Fett I would definitely recommend giving that a go.

Wishing you lots of luck for what ever you decide to do next! x


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## Mena80 (Sep 12, 2018)

Hey chini,

Thanks so much for the reply, It's great to hear someone talking about the benefits of supplements with first-hand experience. 
We too have both been taking a lot of what you mentioned alongside the relevant lifestyle changes. Although not the Fertilix yet. We do have an appointment with Dr Ramsey tomorrow though so that may change when we discuss things with him. One quick question is how long was your partner taking the supplements before seeing the benefit?

Yes,  I've read the book Starts with the egg and have been studying and taking the vitamins she suggests... got rid of most plastics in the kitchen, etc..  Just started taking DHEA a few weeks ago recommended by the clinic. Hope it makes a difference!
That's really great that you guys were able to go for the IVF rather than ICSI! 
Really hope all goes well with you with your current round. x


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## chini (Sep 26, 2017)

Hi Mena, I'm glad if I can help  I think DP started most of the supplements around late October 2018, and we had EC two weeks ago, so he had been on this protocol for 10 months roughly... (We had lots of annoying delays before we were able to start again after our failed NHS cycle last summer.) The bit about cutting down the drinking came later as it was the most difficult one to introduce - I think he only started on that around March or so. And the vitamin C and the zinc I also introduced in March, so those he had been taking "only" for four months before this cycle. Sadly my period started last night, one day before our OTD on Saturday, so this time our cycle didn't work... It was probably a chromosomal issue as my eggs are pretty old and rubbish  But at least it's reassuring to know that with the right supplements and lifestyle changes the sperm parameters can be improved, and now we know what to do. I think it's now time for me to ramp up my supplement plan as until now I've been e.g. only taking 200mg ubiquinol, which according to Rebecca Fett can be doubled for best results. I also didn't take the ALA until now but I think I'm going to start that too - I guess there's always room for imporovement...

How did your appointment with Dr Ramsey go? I hope he was able to give you some new ideas about what to explore next? Wishing you the best of luck for your next round!! x


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## miamiamo (Aug 9, 2015)

You might want to read the international thread over here, https://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=261.0 Myself I know many ladies with success in clinics in Europe that are more affordable. I do not have any personal experiences with ARGC but I have been happy with my clinic, excellent service, treatment, and reasonable prices. Egg donation published their research over a year ago but might be helpful: https://www.eggdonationfriends.com/ivf-egg-donation-abroad-the-most-popular-destinations/ Good luck x


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## Mena80 (Sep 12, 2018)

Hey chini,

Sorry to hear about the negative results, it is so hard to balance hope with being prepared for difficult news, I hope you are doing ok.
I am still hopeful. I have been taking 600 mg ubiquinol for almost two months now.
I took plenty of the supplements she suggests before our second round at ARGC and did a lot of acupuncture and I did have 12 eggs but our fertilisation rate was not good. Only 6 were fertilised and a BFN despite having 3 put back. However, we do also have the issue with the high DNA fragmentation so its difficult to know what might be improving. It's clear that every case is different. 

The appointment with Dr Ramsey went very well, he is fantastic and apparently, there is a problem with varicocele that needs attention. That may be one of the problems, DH will be doing some scans and blood tests for antioxidants (so expensive I want to cry) but we know we cannot go for another round without having this done..
I really appreciate so much your replies. Great to have so much support here. 

All the best for you too xx

Hey miamiamo, 
thank you so much for sending those links, I have started to read some of them and considering the abroad option despite that it makes me feel a little nervous the idea of going abroad and changing from a clinic where I feel well looked after. x


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