# Tired of the battle, devastated at 2nd Miscarriage



## Lucybun (Oct 2, 2010)

Thank Goodness I’ve found this site! I cannot tell you how much it means to feel I’m not alone & my feelings are valid. Right that was the positive bit!

History in a nutshell: 11 years of trying, 5 IVF cycles, m/c  on 3rd attempt, 14 year relationship broke down due to the strain, I eventually started a wonderful new relationship, conceived naturally, then in August had a missed m/c  discovered at my 12 week scan after having  a perfect scan at 9 weeks.

My background: both parents dead:  dad when I was 20, mum when I was 28

I’m so tired of the whole exhausting situation that surrounds IF. It feels like a constant battle, not just the roller-coaster journey of treatments, losses & utter despair, but constantly having to pick yourself up & fit into a world where not only are you isolated & not understood but you have to do it with a big smile on your face or you’re classed as a jealous, bitter, pessimist that no one wants to be around. I feel completely drained by my journey,  the treatments , the positivity of hoping, the joy of pregnancy followed by the total disbelief & devastation  of m/c. Impossible mental battles trying to ‘come to terms’ , trying to block out the all-consuming  pain of seeing  pg women/babies. The years of trying to distract myself whilst living in limbo, it’s like being stuck in a bleak waiting room alone & never getting called for your turn. Watching friends lives constantly progress whilst they deal with not just the contentment & joy of children but the hard work & normal problems surrounding family life, normal problems that get resolved & move on.  I’m not longer just jealous of the gorgeous gurgling bundles of joy, I’m jealous of the sleepless nights, the worries they are unwell or being bullied, the difficult teenager,  the 17 year old with their first car. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can I have these problems instead of this cruel immovable mountain that saps every part of my life & personality.

I’m sick & tired of the ‘count your blessings’ brigade & the ‘at least you don’t have a terminal illness’ mentality (screaaaaaaaaaaaaam!!!!) Mainly because I’ve spent years looking on the bright side, terrified if I didn’t I’d spiral downwards.  Losing my parents so young gave me a heightened sense of ‘life’s too short’, it also gave me total clarity how important children are, it’s a need. That’s why I’m almost incredulous about my journey to achieve it. It’s as though the grief of losing them, showed me the need for new life, but that’s turned into yet more painful loss! To discover I had a missed m/c at my 12 week scan, I can honestly say was the worst moment of my life. How can life be that cruel after 11 years of trying?

Apart from the total heartbreak & despair I feel, I feel so let down by most of my friends. My best friend (both parents alive & 2 kids conceived in the 1st month of trying) makes me feel as though I’m a negative, needy symbol of bad luck. I’m sure it’s partly my mindset & I did get my token few weeks of sympathy but it’s as though my grief is boring, as though I’m the friend who always has death &  bad news , the whole ‘trying to have a baby thing’ is old hat & I’m draining. So far I’ve been told I ‘shouldn’t dwell ‘& to get a job (got made redundant 2 weeks before I discovered I was pg) I promise you it’s not all me me me when we are together but after this last heartbreaking m/c it’s hard to muster up much sympathy for her terrible problem...that when she moves house her 9 yr old daughter simply must have her own en-suite bathroom...yes really!!! I want to scream, why do I have to live like this, when some others don’t even experience 1% of this pain? I’m so sick of thinking there is someone worse off & feeling like a whinger for experiencing so much grief, I’ve not chosen this.  I desperately want to be the friend with good news, discussing baby names & living the total joy of a happy, healthy pregnancy & above all I want to be a mother. I was so close I genuinely thought I was going to have a baby at long last. The joy of pregnancy was beyond words & now I’ve been tossed further into the terrifying black hole that contains death & loss & utter devastation.

I’ve long given up caring how bitter  or crazy I sound about women with babies & bumps, they are everywhere & I almost imagine they feel superior to me, smug & proud when I’m  devastated  with only a scan picture to remind me of my baby I loved more than I can say. I miss my baby so much; I wish I could be with her rather than on this earth without her inside me. xxx


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## Lucybun (Oct 2, 2010)

I feel so mean I said that about my friend now! She really has been very supportive,  I guess people run out  of things to say & they can't help it they haven't had these battles..I'm just bitter & angry at everything at the moment  & can't think straight.


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## charlie_44 (Jan 9, 2009)

Hi Lucy

Welcome to FF   

I'm so sorry for your losses   It's so cruel to have to go through the emotional roller coaster of infertility and then to suffer a m/c is a devastating blow to say the least.  I had a very early m/c after our second IVF and it's one of the worst things I've ever gone through.  I can't bring myself to delete the pictures I took on my phone of my lil embryo's.  I can't imagine how it must have been for you with the missed m/c   

I can relate to the way your feeling about the whole situation - most girls on here will understand.  You hit the nail on the head with saying it's like waiting in a bleak waiting room and never being called for your turn.  Infertility is so isolating and only people going through it can truly understand your pain.  

Don't feel mean you said that about your friend - it's good to rant on here and get things out.  Friends and family do seem to be supportive for a couple of weeks then think we should be okay - if only   

I find I'm much less tolerant of people with stupid comments these days and you do tend to get bitter.  

My hubby and I feel we have come to the end of our treatment journey though it's so hard to close the door to it.  I'm so tired of going through the treatment - we are both physically and mentally drained.  Due to our situation (we have had to use a sperm donor from the start) we have always discussed adoption and think that this will be our next step.  We have our review at the end of October so after that we will hopefully be able to make a final decision and start to move on, though it's a terrible thing to have to live with.

Feel free to PM if you need a rant anytime or to chat more.


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## karenann (May 22, 2010)

Hi Lucybun and welcome to FF - Its not a place we ever wanted to be but it is a place full of lovely supportive women who understand.
I am so very sorry for your loss and am sending you big hugs   
I can totally relate to everything you said I too have lost both parents and suffered 2 m/c with big problems conceiving.   Some days the pain is just all consuming - I go to bed every night praying that I will wake up and its all been a horrible nightmare and there will be a child screaming to be got up - I crave the stress and hard work of having a child. 

You shouldn't feel mean about letting out your feelings about your friend - this is the place to rant and let off steam. Others just don't understand - they think you should just get over it - The next time someone says to me ' there's more to life than kids' - I swear i am going to lose it. 

My sister has been great but recently I have really struggled to deal with the pain, she doesn't understand and tends not to speak to me - which just makes me feel even more isolated.

Have you had any counselling ? I have just finished 6 sessions of counselling ( thats all I could get on the NHS!!!) I found it really helpful - It helped me get a lot of feelings out that had been bottled up for a long time. 

If you want to chat feel free to pm me and keep posting it certainly helps - you will find a lot of understanding and support here
Take care of yourself love Karenann xx


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## Lucybun (Oct 2, 2010)

Thank you so much for your replies, it means a lot  

So sorry for both your painful journey's & your losses, it's all so hard isn't it? 

charlie 44 - I hope your review in October is as helpful as possible, and if adoption is your next route, I hope it's the start of a journey with a very happy & rewarding ending  

karenann - sorry your sister seems distant, that must be very difficult. It's very hard not having parents isn't? It's like you can't look back & you can't look forwards. 

Positive note - been to doc's today & have a referal for counselling, definitely worth a go!

I was thinking of the irritating things people say in the 'there's more to life than kids' vain, we could almost score ourselves to who hears the most over the next 6 months!   Here's a few:

'I'm not really maternal' - from women with kids, who talk about their kids non-stop

'Do you think if you just relax/put it out your mind for a while it'll just happen?'  - wow they might be on to something, don't fork out for ivf, just a bottle of wine & a warm bath & bingo...twins!

' I read about a couple who did 26 cycles of ivf, then gave up...got pregnant naturally the next month' -  

'I tell you what, it will change your life if you do have a baby, you won't be able to go out at the drop of a hat etc'  - omg, not thought of that, assumed I could stick them in a sling & take them clubbing. 

and.... any reference to Cherie Blair or someone abroad having a baby aged 102!!! xxx


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## Lucybun (Oct 2, 2010)

Feel like I’m going a bit mad, had a positive day yesterday & now it’s come crashing down.  

I feel like I’m spending my life dodging a great big black cloud, but I’m so exhausted I’m wondering whether I should just stand still & let it engulf me. Deep down I know not having a baby will never be ok, that I can't ‘work through it' & come out the other side, there is no other side. It feels like trying to convince myself that breathing is a choice.

I can’t tell you the amount of things I’ve done in my life whilst trying. I’ve not sat clutching a baby grow for 11 years.  I’ve moved house, lived abroad, travelled a lot, taken evening classes, looked after much-loved pets. Friends & I all live near London &regularly go to shows, concerts, exhibitions etc. Anyway the list continues & I’m not saying walking through Rome on a beautiful day wasn’t fantastic or the relaxed feel during yoga wasn’t special but it all comes back down to needing a family, it never goes anywhere. I’ve  continually tried allowing myself some grieving time & then giving myself a good talking to: ‘ look at what you have got, not what you haven’t,  thank God you are healthy, life’s too short now get a grip & get on with it’ & every other cliché. It’s an endless circle, you can set off full of determination with expectations of some fulfilment but you still end up back at square one.

Karenann I was thinking how unbelievably insensitive the ‘there’s more to life than kids’ line is & all the other rubbish spouted we seem to swallow. These are from the same people who in the next breath just have to tell us ‘my kids are my world’. Our kids are our world just because we’ve lost them, or they didn’t get conceived, we still love them with all our being & our hearts are broken.     

Can you imagine if a friend’s children all got ran over by a bus, you’re sympathetic for a month & then glaze over , bored at the mention of their names . Then start saying things like ‘there’s more to life than kids’,  ‘come on look on the bright side, at least you haven’t got cancer/aren’t blind/can walk’,  ‘think no dirty nappies, no school run,  you get to lie in & you’ve more money to spend on yourself so cheer up & get on with your life!’ It’s so painfully cruel, it’s unthinkable anyone would say it, but that’s effectively what we get told & talking for myself ...I don’t lash out, I just feel guilty for wallowing & feel embarrassed I’m such dull, depressing company . If I did lash out, I’d be labelled some jealous  baby-obsessed  scary woman,  who’s losing  it & to be avoided.

Sorry for sharing my bad day, hope yours are considerably better!


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## karenann (May 22, 2010)

Lucybun I am so sorry you are having a bad day   I am sending you massive    

I understand exactly what you are saying - It is exhausting - you are not going mad - some days are ok and then bang it just seems to hit like a truck. Some days I just have to let it wash over me and do nothing - I'm not sure if it helps but on those days I just don't want to fight it. Like you I have had all the advice about doing other things etc... I am doing a course at present and have joined reading groups etc... But you are so right at the end of the day I come back to an empty home with no child.  

You are so right about the crap insensitive rubbish we have to put up with - we definitely should tally them up over the next 6 months - like a top ten of insensitive **** remarks. Its ironic isn't it those who are stressed about en-suite bathrooms for their daughters or like my relative stressed about her new kitchen not being perfect - they are the ones who judge us and say things like 'it's alright for you you don't have the stress you don't have kids'  - What do they know about our stress ?
Don't you just want to scream a load of abuse at them.  I got quite angry with my dh' family earlier this year when I got lumbered with a huge pile of work for a wedding - when I asked why my sister in-law couldn't help I got told - she can't help she has children to look after - whenever there is a family event I get reminded that she can't possibly do anything as she has children - I got angry and lost it  - Yep I looked like the bitter jealous miserable woman - Have to say though part of me felt better for saying what I felt

Lucybun you hit the nail on the head with your last comments we would never be so insensitive if someone lost a child - yet it is how we are treated. 

Don't feel guilty for how you feel - you are entitled to your feelings and have a right to grieve over what it the most painful loss a woman can go through. ( I listened to my counsellor!! ) I understand as I too feel guilty and embarrassed, but you know what Lucybun I think we carry enough guilt - it's others who treat us with such insensitivity who should feel guilty and embarrassed.
I am glad you have got a referral for counselling -  I had my last session last week but I am going to try and get another referral as I found it so useful.

You don't have to apologise for sharing your bad day - this is a place where we can let off steam and get it off our chests without the guilt, so keep posting. 

I wish I could offer some magic solution to ease the pain - I don't have the answers yet - I hope that sending a huge  offers some comfort. I do understand.

I think we should come up with some witty remarks to counter some of those insensitive comments and we should definitely start handing out parenting advice !!! 

Take care of you today Lucybun  - Remember we are the stronger ones we have got this far - I am here if you need to offload or share. I am off in the continued search for my sense of humour - I know it's still there somewhere - just got buried when someone turned off the light at the end of the tunnel   lol

Love Karenann xx


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## Lucybun (Oct 2, 2010)

Thank you so much..so glad I've not gone totally batty!   as you've been there too..sadly.

I'm really glad you found your counselling beneficial & hope you get another referral for some more 

Being told your SIL can't help cus she's got kids must drive you nuts, I appreciate people's lives are busy, but it's so awful with what you've been through, having that thrown at you as a reason, just a throw away remark to them i'm sure  Glad you told them, hope they are abit  more sensitive now.

Yes we should def do our top ten insenstive remarks!     & have you got any for the parenting advice list? 

Anyway enough of this, down to important stuff..what is the news on that kitchen Hope it's perfect for her now or I'll be worrying!   

You sound like you have a soh to me   & your posts certainly help me feel better..thank you so much for that. 

Take care  x


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## karenann (May 22, 2010)

Thank you too Lucybun - it helps to know that I am not alone and others really understand

The SIL situation just drives me nuts - Sadly losing it didn't help heho. Anyway important stuff... As far as I know the kitchen is ok for her - for how long though who knows - and I am sure there will be another trauma soon !!!! We have to go to a party there at the weekend - So I stand a good chance of racking up some seriously crass comments     So am going to have to come up with some witty retorts and seriously good parenting advice   Any ideas welcomed lol 

Yes I do have a SOH - Some would even say a little bit    I got it from my Dad who taught me that no matter what life threw at me to keep my SOH - Its not easy though at times.
Am off to research the witty retorts and parenting advice!!!!

Take care


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## Guest (Oct 6, 2010)

Lucy, first wanted to send you a huge hug   for your losses and heartache. A missed m/c is such a horrid thing to go through   , especially when you don't expect it and come to the scan all happy and excited, really feel for you: I had 6 of them ... By the last ones I sort of knew it's probably going to not work, but you still have a glimmer of hope ... And to loose both your parents so early is terrible grief. I lost my father almost 2 years ago and still can hardly think about it without tears. He was a rock to all our family. So sorry for you not having them around for support now. 
I do hope the counselling proves beneficial for you. And like others said, your feelings are totally normal. I can identify with a lot of what you said, the limbo, the insensitive comments, the wanting to have a family 'warts and all' because the sleepless nights and worry are just part of the joy of having dear little people that we love and cherish. And like you, in 12 years of trying to have a family I didn't just sit and wait, I changed careers, travelled, took up new hobbies (piano and gardening are my passions   ), but we all want to do those things as well as have a family and see life growing and developing around us. So do come here and rant as you wish, we all understand and are there for you, because we know what it's like. Hope today you're having a better day.

Karenann -   for in-laws not being sympathetic and rubbing IF in your face, so unfair. I'm sure you're always happy to help with family events, otherwise they wouldn't be dumping them on you all the time ... But they could be more tactful about the way they ask. And SIL should be less self-absorbed. But then families are not always, are they? My MIL have been rather trying for the last couple of years, because she's so absorbed in SIL's relationship problems, so she often says to DH and me that we don't understand because 'we always had it so easy' because we met and married young (in our 20s) (!) - yeh, right, starting out with nothing and building it all up (jobs, house etc.), years of m/cs, tx, heartbreak, my dad being diagnosed with cancer (and also FIL being very ill at the same time), then losing him ... all this si probably just a walk in the park!! Rant over. Sending you a huge   and hope that at the party in the weekend you manage to spend most of the time with nice and tactful people who hopefully won't be talking kids!

Rivka x


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## Lucybun (Oct 2, 2010)

Hello Rivka,   firstly I have to say I’m so sorry for all you’ve been through, it’s so desperately sad & unfair, it’s almost impossible to imagine having an m mc 6 times. As for your MIL making out you’ve had it easy!!!...words fail me. One of the most distressing things I found, (can you relate to this?)  I was already in the whole NHS pg process. At the 10 wk mid-wife appt, the tone was you ARE having a baby ,I got given a due date etc. There was no level of caution. As always it’s a numbers game, by 10 weeks the majority of women will be fine. It actually started to sink in, I’m having a baby!  I’m allowed to believe it!     After the m mc & op there’s nothing, no answers, no process, just sent away with a leaflet.  

After all my previous rantings...I ‘m not even sure what I expect from friends /family if I’m honest.  I almost feel  on some deep level I’ve become detached from most of society, that I’m  walking such a different path it’s hurtful by nature, whether people  are insensitive or not. It’s like we live the marginalised life & it’s just tough luck. One friend uses  ‘the other mums’ as a description it hurts everytime & I’m sure we all see/hear 1000 other things like that a day. Just as I get on the tube & don’t fret how a wheelchair user would fare, I take it for granted. Life makes no sense however hard try, I get back to here. I’m bl**dy bored of my own whirring thoughts to be honest, I’m even dull to myself!!!  Better go & try a bit of distraction I think. It’s nice & sunny  so maybe a walk will help.   
Ooh I’ve got a response to the ‘it  just wasn’t meant to be’ line ! ...’You’re right it wasn’t... but this axe in the back of your head is..whack!!!! ’ sorry just a rubbish joke but made me laugh!


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## Guest (Oct 6, 2010)

Lucy, you did make me laugh there   SOH v important thing. Hope the walk helped, I went for a nice walk at lunchbreak too. In general I found that the outdoors helps so much when you are down, and pottering in the garden almost always makes me forget everything else (if I'm not feeling so rubbish that I can't do it). Take crae of yourself Lucy. Yes, I so much relate to the way after m/c there's not a follow-on, just a leaflet. And the numbers' game is true. In the only IVF pg I had I was in pain for a few days but the scan was fine, perfectly healthy heartbeat, so was told not to worry. Had a m/c the same night. IT's such a shock when you think you've been over the worse and out in the clear and then wham   Even after my 6th m m/c (which was an unplanned pg, we've alreday given up) the consultatnt said 'you could always try again'!   As if we are made of steel. And I do understand your feeling of being isolated, I think your comparison with disability is spot on. Lots of people have to deal with things we have no idea about, and they don't know what we have to go through. And some days are just easier than others ... I hope and pray that we'll be parents by adoption, and that having children will make all this past heartache go away, but at the moment it's still very much there, mostly under the surface but re-surfacing some times and then you really don't know what to feel or think. Waffling on, sorry ... Take care.

Rivka x


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## SuzanneM (Sep 16, 2009)

Hello Lucy

I KNOW EXACTLY HOW YOU FEEL! 

About fourteen year's ago, my husband and I embarked on the road of artificial insemination and I amazingly became pregnant the second time around!  I could not believe that it was actually happening, but unfortunately, I was so very sick that I ended up in hospital.  Then I had an internal which went wrong and not long after that, our baby died.  Of all the times to find out, was having my first antinatel appointment.  That word alone was amazing to me!  They actually said that I could either stay or go home and come back for a d&c!  If our baby had been a boy, we were going to name him James, and can you believe it?  The ward they sent me to was: the Saint James's ward!  If it had not been for my husband's love, I would have taken my own life!  I just felt as though my life was not worth living!  I still cry today for what could have been.

Now I am having to put up with at least 7 women pregnant at the moment and it is HELL ON EARTH.  I spent 2 days in bed with a headache due to emotions too bare to cope.

My heart goes out to you and to me!

Suzanne


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## owenl (Mar 29, 2009)

Hi
Just wanted to say that I totally understand how you are all feeling, I too have had two m/cs, one natural back in 2001 when I got pg naturally with DH and again in May this year after years of no pg and finally ascertaining male fertility problems we went through 3 attempts at IVF on NHS - the first didn't work, the 2nd a chemical pregnancy and the 3rd and final go a BFP but m/c at 9 weeks which was a shock as my first m/c I had no pg symptoms but this time I was getting bad morning sickness and everyone said this was a good sign of a healthy baby so I started to believe it was my time.  Four weeks after m/c I had to accept things were never going to improve with my marriage, my DH refused to go to counselling and had completely rejected me for such a long time which after failed treatment only became worse.  He decided he didn't want to work at being a family of two and 2 weeks after we separated but are still living under the same roof 4 months later as flat mates as we cannot get the house sold.  
Everyone keeps telling me things will get better, that it was male fertility - I am not infertile and I could have a family with someone else, but it's just been such a hard couple of years, the last thing I want to do is get into another relationship so whilst I'd love to have kids and know that I could in theory get pg with a fertile man I am still not sure if I can hold a baby to full-term as I have extra chromosome and do wonder if it was this that continually causes problems with early miscarriages rather than just male fertility problems.  And even if I could, the clock is ticking so unless I meet the man of my dreams in the next year or so, it's not looking likely.  So I kind of feel in a catch 22 position, desperate to meet someone else to have a chance of a family but scared of moving on because I really need time just to enjoy being single again and find out who I am now as my confidence has taken a hard knock after the way my ex has treated me and until house sells kind of feel in limbo stuck under the same roof as can't afford to move out - ex was back on dating scene 4 weeks after we separated, I was still trying to come to terms with everything that has happened to us in the last year.

Anyway, being single isn't making it easier - I didn't want DH to leave me, but I couldn't continue the way things were although would have stayed with him without kids had he been prepared to work at our marriage, I have been thrown into this situation and fed up of people telling me how lucky I am to be young, free and single and could meet someone else soon and have a family.  
Nice to have somewhere to have a rant though.  Will do personals later when I have a little more time.


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## Lucybun (Oct 2, 2010)

WARNING MISERY ALERT!!!  It’s good to know we aren’t alone, although it’s all very sad isn’t it?   I’m coming to the conclusion it’s never going to be reconciled in my head, that I’ll always feel excluded from the ‘norm’ & it will forever be a source of devastating pain. It’s how to make it manageable to live with, does anyone feel the same?

I do enjoy many aspects of my life & genuinely count my blessings , but it’s a grind isn’t it? I always think about my babies, they are with me forever. This sounds silly but losing a baby sums it up, as though I’m constantly searching, like I’m a mother & just haven’t got my baby & need to find her, even though she’s gone forever...

Can anyone tell me any tips on how to deal with seeing pg women in general & not feeling a whole host of hurtful emotions? I don’t remember it being this bad after my first mc but now it feels impossible, probably cus so much hope has evaporated. 

Just thought I’d cheer us all up on a Sunday evening!!!  

Rivka:  I’m wishing you so much good luck with adoption. 
Suzanne: I wish I could offer words of support..7 pg women must be so hard. 
OwenL: You’ve been through so much & I think it’s not what people say sometimes, it’s the optimistic tone to things: ie: young free & single! Not great fun when you didn’t choose it!!!


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## karenann (May 22, 2010)

Hello all - How is everyone ?

Rivka - sending you   Can't believe your MIL think you've had it easy !! Families can be difficult can't they !!! You'd think they would try and be more supportive. The party was awful much as I expected - but at least its over - Hope you are ok sending you  

Suzanne - I am so sorry for your loss    It's so hard isn't it I am sending you a   Having to put up with 7 pg women is just like having your nose rubbed in it.

Owen - As if having to cope IF isn't enough losing you marriage must be devastating - People just don't seem to understand - it's easy to tell you to find someone else and have a baby but it isn't that easy is it. Sending you big  

Lucy - How are you feeling ? I totally agree with you about feeling excluded from the norm. I wish there was a wand we could wave or a  pill to take to make the pain go away. I really don't know how to make it more manageable    As for dealing with seeing pg women  I don't have a solution - I try really hard to focus on something else - If I am shopping I will focus on clothes or shoes etc.. ( Any excuse for retail therapy lol  Sad I know but whatever works at the moment   ) I have to say the worse time for me is food shopping the distraction doesn't work. Any ideas welcome !!
What you said about constantly searching for your baby was just so heartbreaking   
Sending you huge   

I have to say today has been grotty again - I know this sounds stupid but if one of my babies had been here he would have been one this week (or thereabouts) I just can't cope with it today I just would give anything to be able to make that first birthday cake - I seem to have been hit with all those feelings of worthlessness and feeling so overwhelmed by grief and pain. I wish I knew how to fill the void - I've joined a couple of groups and am on a course but it just isn't filling this huge void. Any ideas welcome ( - Answers on a postcard lol   )
To be honest I am having problems with DH - he has always been ambivalent about having children - He refused to go for testing and wouldn't agree to IVF - He is older than me and feels now that he is too old for children. I understand his decision but can't understand why he is unable to support me through this - he sees it as my 'problem'. I am pleased that he is not in this pain that he can manage easily without children, but I just want him to be there emotionally for me sometimes.
Sorry ladies am having a rant   
Better go and cook dinner - perhaps hacking veggies will help !!
Take Care all


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2010)

Karenenn -   for the party, and for the grotty day. Anniversaries are so hard, in any bereavement, and losing a baby is like any other bereavement   I made a conscious choice to forget all these 'due dates', which is not difficult because my memory is rubbish at the best of times   and I've got too many to remember. Otherwise it's really heartbreaking. About DH: it's a common problem when they don't see it the way we do. Sometimes it's their defence mechanism, I know my DH for years would not admit our losses are painful to him (although he did all he could to support me) just because saying it makes it real, I think. Do you think your DH may be trying a defence mechanism, maybe he's scared that he's too old to cope with children, or that you will be hurt if tx doesn't work? I hope you can talk to him and maybe find out a bit more, I know how difficult it can be to talk about painful subjects but maybe when you are both relaxed and not tired you could have a quiet word and tell him how much you need his support right now? Hope it works.

Owen -   people really don't have a clue, it's not as easy as that just to get togteher with someone else, if it were there would not be any people in the world wanting to find a relationship who do not find it!

Lucy - how are you these days? I feel exactly the same very often, counting my blessings and genuinely knowing how lucky I am to have everything I have, and knowing many others have a much rougher deal in life, but still some times it becomes so unbearable that so many women out there just have as many children as they like, and I am getting older every year and feeling like I'm missing the boat. I'm actually sometimes terrified that even if we are (fingers crossed) placed with a child, what if I don't ahve the same level of energy and youth I had in my late 20s when we started trying? I know you can't bring the clock back, but every time I find myself exhausted or not up to something I hear this voice inside telling me that a woman in her 40s shouldn't take responsibility for a child who deserves better.

Sorry for the negative gtone .. but it's great to talk to people who understand, and care. I sometimes read an adoption message board but rarely write on it because (I don't know why) the people there are much less supportive and understanding. Thank you all for being so lovely.

Rivka x


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## karenann (May 22, 2010)

Rivka - sending you big   Thanks for the advice and support - I have talked to DH over the last few days - He has had enough and doesn't want any tx - He is content without children. I respect his honesty and can understand, I guess for me it's different. 
You are right I need to forget these dates - I am not normally this bad - I think it's worse as I have just had to have a laparoscopy - It seems to have messed up my head     
I have ha  

I have had some experience working in the adoption field - I admire you for going down this route. I think it's natural for you to be worried that you may not have the energy levels of a 20 year old. I personally think that you an awful lot to offer a child - you are not too old - Often children who are adopted need patience and understanding - time and love.  You have been through a lot of heartache - you must be strong to cope with all the loss you have suffered. I think that your experience will give you a lot of positive qualities to offer a child. My counsellor called that voice our 'critical parent' - she said sometimes we have to say 'Thank you for your opinion - now bugger off' - I found this good advice - You are not too old to take responsibility for a child - next time you here that voice - tell it about all the advantages there are of being older - all the experience and strength you have gained. All the love and understanding you have to offer a child.  - We may not have quite as much energy all the time but I bet we could give some 20 year olds a run for their money    I will keep my fingers crossed for you - I really hope you get  a child placed with you.
Have a great weekend -  

Lucybun, Owen, and Suzanne - How are you ladies I hope things are ok sending you all   

Hope everyone has a great weekend - Stay strong ladies


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2010)

Karenann - thanks so much for everything you said, I was so touched and almost   (in a good way) - which is embarrassing as I'm sneaking in at work! I love your replies to the 'internal voice', I'll do my best to follow your advice. I always had some issues with self esteem, so know I need to work at it. One of my friends had a baby at 40 and another is expecting at the same age (both after years of tx), so I know it can be done, it's just that I tend to think I'm not as good as others   

I am sorry your discussion with DH brought out differences, this is really hard ... What do you do now? I wish he could support you better, and understand it's difficult for both of you. Would he agree to tx not as something for himself but as something he'll do for you? I mean, surely he'll love a child if one arrives, even if he can happily live without one? Or - having worked in adoption - would you consider this route? Would he? Sending you a big   and hoping you'll find a way that suits both of you.

Lucy, Suzanne, Owen - hope you are feeling fine and coping.

Rivka x


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