# Multiple failures



## mrsj12 (May 14, 2012)

Hi, 

I've just had my 4th BFN from an FET (my 5th transfer - MC on 2nd FET) and I don't know what to do next. Hubby and I don't feel ready to give up, a change of clinic is definitely on the cards although we will have to travel now and I'm not sure if that's going to add to the stress. We're looking at clinics both home and abroad although the ones abroad I find much harder to research as I end up with more questions than answers. I'm just so frustrated, I haven't cried today, I just think I'm too numb, 4 out of our 5 years married have been full of sadness and disappointment. I sound terribly bitter and I really don't want to, I just needed somewhere to rant and let out the frustration. 

I'm just praying that we manage to get there, it feels a bit further away each time a BFN rolls along. Anyone got any advice or even just in the same boat and wanting to have a whinge like me?!

xx


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## Teeinparis (Sep 15, 2013)

Hi. 

i saw this when logging in and through I would say I am sorry and give a few pieces of advice/stats.  

It is hard to understand but on average according to Nice it takes 3 fresh cycles of IVF for success and that is IVF not ICSI which has similar success but not quite from what I understand.  So it is hard as especially with our FET - I don't think it was ever going to work as we only ever have two good quality embryos for transfer due to MFI.  Remember even a healthy 20 year old couple only has a 25 % chance of getting pregnant each month and still the same percentage of miscarriage rate for problematic embryos.  

As you also have MFI - I would suggest IMSI.  This is when they look with more magnification to find better sperm in the sample.  It definitely made a difference for us each time.  

The other thing is persistence.  A lot of people on this board and who I have met through yoga etc in Paris have taken 4-5 cycles to be successful.  The first one is so much of a trial or pot luck then we rushed into our second one way toooo soon.  Etc.  

I would also suggest you look at immunes and do some testing around that or find a clinic that will treat empirically.  

I will say although still early days - we had the feeling not to give up and haven't and are happy we haven't despite the stress etc.  

If you want any more info about the Lister etc who we finally used please let me know.  

I know you will get there - you can see from your 2nd FET you can get pregnant so that is super positive!!!!

Tee


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## Bax (Feb 25, 2015)

I'm so sorry to hear about this.  The whole IVF is a bl*ody b*sta*rd which messes about with your emotions and can really take it out of you and your relationship.  I do't have any real advice but I would say just take some time before you throw yourself into another cycle anywhere - don't let it drive you   xx


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## mrsj12 (May 14, 2012)

thank you so much for your responses. Teeinparis, thank you for the advice. We have already looked at IMSI and the clinic we just cycled with don't do it (they also don't do 5dt and many other things) but another I am looking at for next time does. It's great to see that you have had success using this method. Bax, thanks for the kind words. It's good sometimes to speak to others who are in the same boat.


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## Fiftyshades34 (Jan 21, 2015)

Hi,

I feel your pain as we are in exactly the same boat. 

5 transfers later and no baby yet. Our last fresh go we used imsi. Our rates of fertilisation were actually worse.  We are now looking at a Prague clinic that use picsi. I'm also having to have my dodgy tube removed beforehand as well. I hate the waiting game. We have done everything.. Immune testing, recurrent miscarriage, different drugs, different protocols, different clinics. Look at every angle possible, covering every aspect. We have had all tests. 

I'm kind of glad I'm having a bit of time out at the moment. I think you need that. If you ever want to chat pm me xxx


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## 100480 (Mar 10, 2014)

Hi Mrsj, I just wanted to add to what the previous ladies have advised. As you'll see from my signature, I've been quite fortunate with my treatment. Before our last FET, I found having a break for a good few months gave me time to get my head in the right place incase the next cycle was a BFN. It also gave us time to enjoy life without it being all about fertility treatment, which really helped us as a couple.
I ask wanted to ask if you'd read much about an endometrial scratch? I would recommend having a read about it, and checking if the new clinics you are considering perform it. It's meant to be able to increase a cycle's success by up to 20%. I can't say if that's what definitely helped me with my last cycle, but it was worth the small extra price to give the cycle the best chances


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## HopingAndPraying (Mar 28, 2013)

Hi Mrs J 

I am sorry for your recent bfn x hope you are as well as you can be right now. 

You said your clinic doesn't do blast transfer! I think taking your embryos to blast would give you 
A lot more insight as to the quality of the embryo as after day 3 that's when the sperm DNA kicks in and if you have male factor then your clinic isn't really testing your embryos by taking them to day 5! Sorry you probably know all of this but your definately on the right track considering a new clinic. 

The other thing that was mentioned is immune protocol and getting your clinic to treat you imperially incase there are any implantation issues! 

This roller coaster is soul destroying and can understand the effect it can have on your marriage and remember that sadness only to well! You will absolutely get there as the others have said as sadly it's a numbers game so don't give up! 

Wishing you all the very best and take good care of yourself! X


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## mrsj12 (May 14, 2012)

Fiftyshades - sorry to see you have too had another disappointing cycle. It gets to be so consuming doesn't it. I haven't read about Picsi yet but will take a look. 
Hoping and Praying - thanks for the kind words, I agree about testing the embryos. We obviously had 2 that were ok but then they didn't make it past 12 weeks so there was still an issue. I'm just fed up of the clinic saying it's just bad luck. I think they should be taking me more seriously and that's the reason for the move. 
melissamummy - I have been looking at the end scratch info and it seems some clinics really support it. At this point I'm prepared to try anything I just feel that I need a more specialised clinic who will treat us as an individual case and not the same as everyone else. 

Anyone got any recommendations on clinics? I've been looking at CRGW and Serum in Athens but can't find a price list for them anywhere, I'll probably request one as everyone raves about the care they get there, which would make a change for us. 

I really appreciate all the support. I'm actually feeling ok, I had figured a few days ago that this cycle was a bust so wasn't shocked this morning (not that you ever completely stop hoping that maybe it's worked). I enjoyed a regular cup of caffeinated tea earlier - it's sad the things I miss.


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## Fiftyshades34 (Jan 21, 2015)

I've also cycled at serum too! X


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## HopingAndPraying (Mar 28, 2013)

Mrs j x 

I had a telephone consultation with penny from serum , it's free and you send some of your details on a form! I found her very helpful and she actually prescribed my husband with antibiotics to help his sperm and we saw a great increase , however hard to tell if it was solely the antibiotics or the clean living (I made the poor guys life a misery with all the lotions and potions)  

Fifty will know more than me but think it's significantly cheaper than the uk and they are pros on the immune front , I found penny so refreshing! 

I cycled with argc too but unfortunately did not get a BFP and the cost was eye watering ...think about 17k! 

Good luck again and you too fifty shades! Xxx


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## Izzybear (Aug 4, 2009)

We went to Serum after tx here and I would recommend them any day

There is a whole thread by a lady called Agate giving just about every piece of info about cycling there. It's on the international page then Greece I think but can't link you sorry *rubbish at technology* plus you can have a telephone consult first to get a feel for if it's right for you

Wishing you luck whatever you decide x


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## mrsj12 (May 14, 2012)

Thanks guys, I've approached both clinics for some info and then will take my time considering the pros and cons. I understand what you are all saying about not throwing myself in again too soon and I agree but I'm the type of person who likes to have a plan. Is it pathetic that I quite like the idea of cycling abroad partly because I will get a bit of sunshine and a holiday too? We've bought a new house which we are in the process of doing up (decided we weren't putting it off anymore just because of IVF) and holidays are going to be in short supply now. 

Hoping and praying - I totally get where you are coming from, my poor hubby gets put through the ringer in prep for a cycle, I make sure he's following all the 'rules' for improving sperm. His count actually went up last time but it's the morphology that's really poor. It breaks his heart too as he feels so responsible. 

Fifty I will PM you later if that ok


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## Fiftyshades34 (Jan 21, 2015)

Yes pm away and I will gladly answer any questions you have xx


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## HopingAndPraying (Mar 28, 2013)

Mrs j x so pleased you have a plan x 

Sometimes a plan is the only thing that keeps you going as you feel like you are taking some control and likewise about vitamins and being healthy! 

It's awful when it's male factor but wanted to give you some comfort that my hubbies sperm hovered between 2 and 3% morphology on every test and his lowest count was 5,000 per ml! The fertility specialists gave us a 1% chance of conceiving naturally and I did not long after my failed cycle at argc! So nothing is absolute when it comes to sperm!  

Hope you and your hubby are doing ok! 

A lot of ladies say serum is so relaxing as you get a holiday too! 

Take care x


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