# Frozen embryos - any information gratefully received



## natclare (May 27, 2011)

Hi worldly wise women

A quick question for you all. Have been meaning to ask this for some time... 
What do we know about frozen embryos?

My main questions are:
- Has anyone done this as a fertility preservation tactic?
- Or have you all frozen a few from a regular cycle?
- What was your experience with this?
- Is it possible to do this abroad anywhere, cheaper than UK (I recognise there are implications with known donor etc depending on where you go)?
- What does the UK law say about frozen embryos?
- If you freeze embryos how long do you have to use them?
- What happens if you decide not to use them in the end? Has anyone donated embryos? Or do you just let them perish?
- With frozen embryo transfer, does the chance of a successful pregnancy decrease with age, bearing in mind the egg would have originally been younger? Is it simply that there is a greater risk of miscarriage as you get older? Or is there more to it?
- Does anyone have any idea of statistics of frozen embryo transfer versus age?

Thank you so much


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## indekiwi (Dec 23, 2008)

Hi Natclare,

I'll only address the questions you pose that I'm on firm footing with:

As part of a normal IVF cycle where the aim is to have a fresh transfer, many (but by no means all) clinics will strongly push for freezing only those remaining embryos that are considered good quality blastocysts.  Many women don't produce embryos that reach that stage.  For example, with my first DE cycle, although I had six embies, the four I didn't have transferred were not deemed good enough for freezing.  

It is certainly possible to have tx abroad and have all the embies frozen.

In the UK, embryos that come about with the use of donor gametes, whether sperm, egg or both, have a "shelf life" of five years, after which they must be destroyed.  Note that this is different for donor gametes alone (ie that have not yet been used in tx, for example, sibling sperm) which can normally be kept for up to ten years from date of donation.  The five year rule with respect to embryos commences once tx has taken place, so it is possible that you could use donor sperm donated 8 years ago, and then have a further five years to use the resulting embryos.  (I'm in this position now with respect to my frosties).

If you decide not to use frosties (ie frozen embryos) where you have used donor sperm or eggs, you cannot donate them in the UK to a third party without the consent of the donor concerned.  This would have to be intermediated by the sperm bank from where the donor gametes were bought.  It does not matter that you paid for the donor gametes - all you actually buy in fact is the right to use those gametes for yourself.  Moreover, if you have a child from those gametes, and subsequently decide that you do not want to use the remaining frosties, it may be that the donor concerned has reached the 10 family limit and that therefore even if the donor did agree to donate the frosties to someone else, it would not be permitted by law.  Therefore, you can either use them, or let them perish (you don't even have discretion over whether to donate them for research, as this is an option the donor decides on at time of donation). 

There is a greater risk of miscarriage in older women, and, I believe, a slightly higher risk with respect to conception via IVF.  However, DEIVF often has high rates of success purely because the eggs are from young women.  My youngest is a DEFET baby.    I think you are considering doing a cycle of tx using your own eggs, and then freezing, correct?  If this is the case, the sooner you do so, the better.  

I'm sure someone else will pop by with further information.

A-Mx


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## agate (Nov 14, 2008)

There can be quite a big difference in success rates using frosties.

the age of the egg 'donor' is the biggest factor... so good quality frosties from a young. proven donor might get you a live birth rate of maybe 40% per cycle

but OE frosties at 35 might be more like half that... and once you get to OE frosties from a 40 year old the rates are always going to be a lot lower.

On top of that there is quite a big difference between different clinics - mainly because some clinics are better at

- deciding which embryos to freeze - obviously if the freezing criteria are very strict, those that are accepted for freezing will tend to have better quality than if the freezing critera tend towards 'freeze all'

- the actually freezing (vitrification) process and the defrost  - a clinic with skilled staff and good equipment are likely to have a higher rate of 'good defrosts'.


I GUESS as a fertility preservation tactic the pluses and minus would include

+ its more proven than freezing eggs because so far a lot more babies have been born from frozen embies than eggs
+ its probably better than doing nothing if you wouldn't be happy to use DE
+ there is a slightly improved health record seen for babies born from frosties than fresh - presumably because those frosties that survive are the strongest embryos.


- its fairly expensive to do (and fresh DE would probably be more cost effective in the long run)
- the effort and money would be wasted if you had a dispute with the legal father/known donor and he refused to let you use the embies

as you get older, there is more chance that you develop a general health problem (e.g. cancer) or a specific uterine problem (e.g. big fibroids, adenomyosis etc) that means you can't use the frosties or your chances for implanatation/live birth are reduced....but apart from that if you are putting frosties back into a uterus with no significant problems and you don't develop any health issues in the meantime, the chance of pg will generally depend only on the age you/the donor were when you made the eggs and not decline much at all as you get older.

hope this helps

a x


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