# Paying poor foreign women for eggs is 'a kind of prostitution’ says fertility ex



## DreamTeam (Nov 1, 2007)

"Paying poor foreign women for eggs is 'a kind of prostitution' says fertility expert" in the Times.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article6840672.ece

British couples who travel abroad for IVF treatment and buy other women's eggs are engaging in a form of prostitution, a fertility conference was told yesterday.

In an attack on the "fertility tourism" industry, Naomi Pfeffer warned that increasing numbers of "vulnerable women in developed countries" were being exploited by Westerners who were desperate to conceive.

Professor Pfeffer, who researches controversial developments in medicine, told the Motherhood in the 21st Century Conference at University College London: "The exchange relationship is analogous to that of a client and a prostitute. It's a unique situation because it's the only instance in which a woman exploits another woman's body."

Her comments, likely to reignite the debate on the ban on paying for eggs and sperm in Britain, were backed up by Lord Winston, the fertility expert and broadcaster. He told The Times: "She's right, basically. It's a form of exploitation."
Related Links

* Breakthrough IVF test produces its first baby

* Britons offered chance to choose child's sex

A recent study revealed that hundreds of British couples were travelling to Europe for IVF treatment every month. University College London researchers have estimated that at least 20,000 to 25,000 cross-border fertility treatments are being carried out on the Continent each year.

Donors, in destinations such as Spain, the Czech Republic, Romania and Ukraine, are paid hundreds of pounds for their eggs. Professor Pfeffer said that these women were often vulnerable, desperate and willing to take health risks to make sizeable sums of money.

She said: "Most of these women are in developing economies where access to healthcare is limited by their ability to pay. They are often vulnerable women and it's a very unequal economic relationship.

"These women are being encouraged to take real risks with their health through ovarian stimulation and egg retrieval. It commodifies women's bodies and treats their reproductive capacities as a service."

Egg donors typically undergo a donation cycle of three to six weeks, during which time they take contraceptive pills to control their natural fertility cycle. Usually during the first week the donor sniffs a hormonal nasal spray, which is followed by two to four weeks of self-administered hormonal injections to stimulate egg production.

The egg-harvesting procedure takes about 30 minutes and is carried out under a light anaesthetic. A needle is guided by ultrasound through the vaginal wall to retrieve follicles containing eggs from both ovaries.

Professor Pfeffer said that even using the term "donation" in relation to the exchange of eggs was inappropriate. "It sounds as though it's a gift. But these women are not doing it for altruistic reasons - they are doing it for money. We shouldn't talk about them as egg donors."

Furthermore, she said, it raised questions for the child who was conceived. "What can you tell a child when half their genetic make-up came from a woman in Romania? A woman who was so poor that she was prepared to enter [into egg exchange]? What does that child think of its social mother, a woman who was prepared to exploit another woman?"

She said that British parents should face up to the consequences of their actions. "They should know that they are using vulnerable women. These women who are buying eggs have to appreciate that the eggs don't appear from a stork or from under a gooseberry bush."

A private IVF cycle costs at least £4,000 in Britain but is half the price in parts of South and Eastern Europe. A recent survey showed that two thirds of Britons engaging in fertility treatment in Europe were aged over 40 because they did not qualify for free treatment on the NHS.

Professor Winston said that British doctors were fuelling fertility tourism by referring their patients to European clinics for IVF treatment because the industry was less regulated. "That is not a way for us to be behaving," he told the conference.

Several other experts agreed that the increasing popularity of the fertility tourism industry needed to be urgently addressed.

Professor Sammy Lee, one of the country's leading experts on fertility, said that there needed to be a debate on the British ban on buying eggs and sperm.

"This issue needs to be addressed," he said. "One of the reasons people are going to Europe is that it is so hard to get eggs in Britain. It's going to happen more because people are looking for areas where the law and guidelines are less strict, where they can pay donors and donors are more available."

In July the fertility watchdog, the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority, said that the longstanding British ban should be reconsidered to try to reduce the number of people going abroad for treatment.

Beating the queue

Many British doctors refer patients abroad if they do not want to join the NHS's three-year waiting list for donor eggs

Prime destinations include Spain, the Czech Republic, Romania and Ukraine because donors are paid

In fertility tourism, two thirds of women are estimated to be above 40. They do not qualify for free treatment on the NHS

Researchers estimate that 20,000-25,000 cross-border fertility treatments are carried out on the Continent each year


----------



## roze (Mar 20, 2004)

I think the alleged level of exploitation depends on a lot of things. If a country is very very poor and the women have a low level of literacy and education, that is one thing indeed, however if they have a high level of literacy and education and are professional women, and you know that your clinic works along the lines of probity and professionalism ,then that is another story entirely. The Bridge clinic in London stopped using Romanian clinics for egg donation for reasons not unconnected to this sort of thing. However anyone who has been to the Ukraine as one example will know that women are very feisty, very together, have an excellent standard of education, hence are more likely to have a greater understanding of the arrangement they are getting into. Most former soviet bloc countries use only professional women with good educational levels so can this be called ' prostitution'?

And what is the difference between donors here and elsewhere?  Is egg sharing in the UK not exploitative? Remember these clinics, some US backed, are making shed loads of money through this treatment without providing tailored care and treatment. In the US donors charge people a fortune for treatment- the balance has shifted somewhat. Having been through IVF several times I simply do not agree that  its easy money. Far easier to go on the game, frankly, more lucrative. IVF is a painful, arduous process for the donors so it is by no means an easy option for them. I don't see how its automatically assumed that they are being exploited. Spanish women are very good at donating but by no means can you consider Spain a developing country with low educational levels.

The issue of exploitation and exploiter is a delicate one but of course the 'Fertility experts' who probably know relatively little about the experience other than what they read in the Daily Pail will always think they are right. What evidence do they have that the majority of donors abroad are poor foreign women. Is this not patronising rubbish?  Its also pretty clear that they don't know much about prostitution. 

Women have always helped other women in conception, childbirth and childrearing. Women have often breastfed other womens babies and even now there are milk banks in various hospitals to assist women who cannot breastfeed. Personally if I had the chance to donate eggs I would not hesitate. Many of my friends in the UK who conceived normally have said after hearing our experiences that they would not hesitate to donate but they were just not familiar with the extent of the need in the UK for donors.

Personally this is just another attempt at bashing those seeking to conceive and prejudging them about their ability to consider issues prior to starting tx. I don't know many women who haven't given the whole thing deep and careful consideration. Provided the exchange relationship is fair open and honest then it can hardly be called prostitution. Thats where the probity of your clinic comes in. Prostitution is also not always an exploitative relationship either where women are , as in some European countries, are in control of the situation and their bodies.  Its is however deeply exploitative when controlled by men, the women are hooked on drugs deliberately, and cannot escape. With egg donation the women are free to stop at any time. 

I think I am going off Dr Winston rapidly to be honest- he has lost his integrity completely in my eyes. 

I'm still waiting for that Orwellian day when women returning to the UK from the abroad will be presented by a box to tick which says ' reasons for travelling abroad- work  vacation  fertility tourism' or  ' are you carrying illegal aliens within your uterus, madam', or where women of childbearing age are interviewed to ensure they are not travelling abroad for such treatment. That will be a very sad day indeed, but it seems that some people won;t be happy until it arrives.

roze


----------



## pobby (Jun 2, 2005)

fantastic post Roze! 
I completely agree with all you have said but could never have put it so well myself! It never ceases to amaze me how the press find any excuse to knock down women undergoing IVF treatment. So now, not only are we selfish and irresponsible...for having more than one embryo put back, for concentrating on our careers, for placing a terrible burden on the NHS blah blah, now we are accused of engaging in a a form of prostitution!! lovely! 
The doctor who I am under in Athens takes the welfare of her donors EXTREMELY seriously and, in my first meeting with her, went to great pains to tell me how she monitors the health of the donors and always gives the lowest dose of stimms. All the donors produce around 6-8 eggs (after all it is quality not quantity) and in my extensive conversations with her about the donors she tells me that she vets her donors quite rigorously, ensuring that the women she chooses have a genuine desire to help other women and are not just in it for the money. The ukranian/polish donors are not starving peasant women but very well educated doctors, nurses and teachers who often cannot practise in greece. Are we really exploiting these women? I think it is very patronizing of these fertility 'experts' to presume we are. As you have said Roze, there are many women out there who genuinely wish to help others and whether money is exchanged or not I think its irrelevent. of course I am not so naive to think a complete stranger would help me without being financially rewarded but again as you said Roze, donating eggs really is NOT that lucrative. I do really think that donating eggs is a truly wonderful gift..Im sure the extra cash helps but so what? 
And on the subject of prostitution, in my work I meet many women who get paid for sex and I have only ever met ONE who is a drug addict. the rest are by and large, sensible, NORMAL women. They are not being exploited but have chosen to do it to get through college or whatever. No, i couldnt do it myself but fair play to those that can!!
Thankyou to all you lovely donors out there!!!!!!

Pobby x


----------



## Orange Smartie (Dec 30, 2007)

Roze and Pobby, great posts.

I do wonder if this interest in IVF tourism in some way relates to the huge profits made by UK clinics and doctors.  Perhaps its the cynic in me but more women going overseas for tx means less coffers in UK clinics....


----------



## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Bloody hell!!!  It's all very well being concerned about how egg donation is managed but it's quite another to start bandying about words like prostitution! Well said Roze, Pobs and Rachel!  Not only is this yet another attack on western women who are undergoing fertility treatment but it's an insult to the intelligence and integrity of those women who choose to donate eggs to help us. Yes it is possible that there is exploitation in some cases but that doesn't make us all pimps or johns or whatever the correct terminology is and it certainly doesn't mean that the donors are wh0res!  Jeeeeez, I'm actually getting angrier by the minute as I think about the implications of what Naomi Pfeffer says here - Is she totally  or what?

And I sincerely hope that RW was quoted out of context! If not, I hope he's going to try to keep his trap shut in future as he seems to be losing the plot somewhat!

xxx


----------



## Guest (Sep 21, 2009)

I doubt it Nix - he never has anything constructive to say anymore - now that he is no longer a true pioneer in fertility tx   ..... he must see the only way to get in the press to be by being controversial. I agree that when choosing a clinic at all - for whatever tx - we all have to decide what is right for us....some may well exploit more than others but to suggest all foreign DE txs are exploitative is RIDICULOUS and I am guessing wholly unproven. Why on earth should we not go elsewhere for our future family? It is our body and our choice and if under rules that meet with our own set of values someone is out there wanting to help us then bring it on! The NHS (and many so called private experts) is/are SO hopeless in the field of fertility that tbh I no longer consider them worthy of a view. If more clinics were properly assessed and made to deliver the results of the top clinics here and abroad then maybe more women would not need to go abroad or even have DE in the first place...we waste so much public money on rubbish NHS clinics/cycles delivering 50% less chances to couples everyday than they should be   

Mrs Angry from Lukeyville    

xxx


----------



## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

I have no experience of DE or tx abroad but personally think this article is a load of piffle.....and well said you ladies ! 

If anyones exploiting anyone, maybe they need to look closer to home in terms of costs of drugs and treatment when a single injection pen can cost £300+ !!!

I realise there's alot more to this than drugs costs etc but it just seems to me to be yet another way to tarnish any of us going through IVF treatment (for whatever reason) with the "selfish brush" 

I'll  because I don't have enough knowledge of DE/tx outside UK but these type of articles still makes me angry.

Take care
Natasha xx


----------



## sohocat (Aug 11, 2009)

Well said ladies!  And as was said in a previous post, do not the UK clinics and clinics in the US exploit the donors in the same way they were accusing the foreign clinics of doing?  Of course they do!  And I know this has to do with the fact that they are losing money to the foreign clinics.  Of course it does-it's obvious.  Maybe if they stopped expoiting us by charging so much and treatin us so badly, more people would go to them.  Speaking of exploitation-they exploit us with all of their high prices.  And the US clinics are the worst ladies!  They are for a large part arrogant and greedy.  Go foreign clinics!  Rah, rah!


----------



## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

I think that after having personal experience twice of failed ivf treatments in this country i am quite well enough qualified to offer the opinion that the only time i have been exploited was here in england.  The price of the cycle to start with what a rip off  , the hfea fee (i mean a £104 for what  ) well over a twelve hundred quid on drugs x 2.  Im going to brno in march and it cant come soon enough for me


----------



## pobby (Jun 2, 2005)

good luck Slycett! your so right, what an absolute rip off it is over here.....but they think they are so much cleverer over here, makes me sick!!!      xx


----------



## babycrazy (Mar 17, 2006)

Here Here Pobby
My GP even thinks all American Dr,s are Quacks  

Slycett, please be assured when you go out to Brno, you are not going to a poor backward country.
In CZ, infertile couples get 3 x free goes at IVF on there health insurance!.
The 2 clinics I,ve attended are spotless, one of them attached to a Government HSP.

The drug addicts that are out on the streets  (much less than in UK cities)get free needle changes from  teams that tour around
They have drained a massive lake because it was unfit to swim in and will clean it out and refill it by next summer.
 Now who is the backward country. 
Oh i don't think they have a Jeremy Kyle show , as there don't seem to be any women/ men about suitable to go on it.  
Angel Blessings
Xx
Karen


----------



## Lesley08 (May 4, 2008)

I saw N Pfeffer on the tv being interviewed yest about her 'research' and have to say she didnt do herself any justice. For a start to liken egg donation to prostitution is simply unbelieveable in its naivety and fails to in any way comprehend the degradation and self loathing involved in prostitution - I would assume that even if a woman were donating eggs because she needed the money that at least she could leave the 'transaction' feeling better about herself and knowing she had greatly helped another woman. I would also assume that its highly unlikely that she would be donating eggs for crack money unlike many prostitutes!!! There are so many holes in this argument its hardly worth responding too but then it is important to refute such dodgy reasoning or the ignorant will have no counter argument to consider. To be frank if egg donation was the only circumstance when a woman exploited anothyer woman I would be delighted but where has this woman been living - woman exploit women all the time we arent some sort of beatific creatures who have nothing to do with the real world even if we dont mean to we exploit other women say when I buy cheap clothes Im quite sure other women and god forgive me probably children have been exploited some where along thje capitalist chain. I think her argument can easily be dismantled but it still makes it hurtful to those of us - like myself - who have used donor egg to get pg. I have a 2 mth old son and I have wrestled with many of these ethical queries and I dont need some half baked pseudo academic who is simply pursuing an argument to further her own academic career to make life harder for me.

Lesley xx


----------



## roze (Mar 20, 2004)

Well said, Lesley, a very impressive argument.

Again, anything is possible but it comes down to where you have your tx and how your clinic recruits and treats donors. I actually see underpaying women as also exploitation, and also see it in reverse in the US where donors charge a fortune to childless couples. 

roze xx


----------



## Bree (Mar 21, 2007)

I cant believe this so called expert tarring everyone with the same brush. How irresponsible  to call all foreign egg donation prostitution! 
  I went to IM in Barcelona, the donors are given counselling and their reasons for wanting to donate are looked at carefully.Many are intelligent women who ARE doing this for altruistic reasons and are NOT poverty stricken. They have reasonable renumeration for their efforts (unlike in this country), but its not a fortune and they would have to have extra reasons apart from the money to go through the process. They are NOT over stimulated and are only allowed to donate a few times. To make the efforts and kindness of these special women sound like prostitution is quite vile. 
  I am worried there will be a backlash of prejudice against our lovely donor children, that there will be a stigma attached to it because of these stupid, irresponsible comments. 
Love Bree xx


----------

