# Do you parent 'therapeutically'...



## Daizy (Feb 25, 2011)

I don’t know if any of you ever post/read the forum section of Adoption UK. There are a small community of long term posters there who sort of 'run' the forum, and they're pretty extreme in their views on adoptive parenting. Basically of the opinion that ALL adopters should be 'specialist parenting' (there is a discussion running at the moment – which has prompted me posting this – about how adoption needs to be completely overhauled, and re-branded as “specialist parenting for traumatised children”). I personally find it quite alarming how vociferous/forceful they are when advising new adopters (it's a very popular site, and a registered charity, so the stuff they're putting out there is probably taken seriously by prospective adopters). 

We're the best part of 2 years into placement with our daughter. She came home to us at 16 months. We've parented much as we would've a birth child, give or take allowances (obvious stuff) for her in terms of building her sense of security, trust, confidence and such like. In the main, we've allowed her to take her time over things – if she wasn't sure of something, we haven't ever tried to goad or coax her. I genuinely think, had we attempted to attachment parent or therapeutic parent (basically, if we'd used some of the techniques that those on AUK peddle) it would've been detrimental to our daughter – she simply didn't NEED specialist parenting. Thus I wonder, has adoption UK merely been monopolised by a small group of people who're at the very extreme end of adoptive parenting? Or am I in the minority of adopters who haven't had any issues?


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## keemjay (Jan 19, 2004)

very interesting question Daizy..havent got time to respond just now but i do share your views on the AUk boards and who 'runs' them!
will be back to answer more fully at some point...
Kj x


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

Hi Daizy,

I use the AUK forums and agree that a hardcore of posters have very firm ideas on the "right" way to parent adopted children, and can be very unfriendly to new adopters seeking advice, and tend to treat them like idiots.  I use the forums, and I have got some useful advice from them at times, but it's very much a "take it or leave it" thing for me, and I don't find them a useful source of support, just information.  I use a different username from the one I used to use because I got such a horrendous response to a couple of posts I made on there seeking help from those who've done it before when we first had Wyxling placed, from people who felt we were doing it all wrong (we were in some respects, for the record, but you don't know when you've not done it, and I knew what we were doing wasn't working which was why I was looking for suggestions).  I think there's also a strong opinion that all adopted children are seriously traumatised and will be incredibly hard to parent throughout their childhoods.  My experience of the adoptees I have met is somewhat different to that.  Things are more complicated, and there are some children with serious long term problems, but it's not all doom and gloom.  If reading those forums I would bear in mind that the people for whom things are working are not likely to go on the AUK forum seeking help from others, so I do personally feel they represent a significant minority of adopted families where problems really are extreme.

We do parent theraputically with Wyxling in a lot of ways, mainstream parenting in a lot of respects that works well for children without attachment problems who are more secure wouldn't work for her - we did try it in a very softly, softly way, and it had horrendous results.  We had to have a complete rethink and start from scratch.  For some months we almost entirely focused on attachment, ditched all consequences, and parented in an entirely theraputic way.  It worked well for Wyxling who was in a horrendous place at that time, and her behaviour was so far beyond normal boundary testing.  Over time we have moved towards a more mainstream parenting style, and I can be quite firm about certain things, I find I need to use my judgment as to whether she's behaving in a certain way because she's just trying it on in a very normal 2 year old way, or because of early trauma and massive insecurity and very low self-esteem.  With Wyxling you can often tell whether she's in a state to be "reached" and when she's not.  I will never use time out or the naughty step for Wyxling, which of course means I won't for our other child.  I would always be very wary of putting an adopted child away from me as a "punishment", but having said that I know a couple of adopters with very happy children who've been with them for a long time who do use time out, and it doesn't seem to have any adverse affect on those children.

I think it depends on the child and how long into placement.  I don't feel that I need to be very firmly entrenched in a "method" of parenting.  I think that children at some point do need boundaries and consequences for their behaviour if it persists.  It doesn't have to be in a big shouty you're bad and I'm cross way.  

Just my more than two penneth!


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## Old Timer (Jan 23, 2005)

Hi

I read AUK, have done for years, and you are right, there is a group of posters who monopolise the boards and think that every little thing that happens to their children and them is because of adoption.  I don't post simply because I don't have the issues they do, or think they do, and anything other than their view does get shot down.

However, I do parent my children therapeutically as much as possible and as my DS has some attachment issues I can't risk ignoring advice from gurus like Dan Huges.  Some days life with attachment issues can be a nightmare but there is normally a reason, a trigger to DS feeling wobbly and his behaviour going down hill.  Most of the time we avoid the triggers.  

My DD came home at 14 months, now 33 months, and is totally different, she has a very good attachment and, being able to look back now on DS when he was younger, we can see things that weren't so clear in the early years.

Methods of parenting can be very emotive and many adopters have been conditioned to think everything is related to a child's early experiences and the majority of the regular posters on AUK do have some very damaged children.  The forums there are more negative about adoption because of the experiences and mind sets of the people using them.  The adoptive families getting on with life and living a pretty normal (whatever normal is) life don't tend to post because they get shot down by the people who are finding it tough.

The way I look at it is this, ALL adopted children will have suffered at some point before they came home, even those removed at birth will have suffered in the womb, separation from BM, possibly withdrawal, and then again when they lose FC and have to get to know and trust us.  That is quite a bit of suffering and they are the 'lucky' ones.  I look at my children's behaviour and development against the 'norm' and if something doesn't fit then I look at early trauma.  BUT I choose to parent as therapeutically as possible because it feels better than traditional methods.

I think the most important thing for any adoptive parent to remember is that the pre-school years can be very normal and it is easy to get complacent over it.  Many children who presented as 'normal', coping with normal lives and parenting, start displaying issues when they go to school.  So enjoy the good times but don't think that because all is well now it will remain that way.  Continue to read and learn, hope for the best but also prepare yourself with knowledge for the future as none of us know what that holds.

OT x


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## wynnster (Jun 6, 2003)

Hiya

I agree with everything OT has said   

You will get much better, honest replies on here to any questions you have.  AUK regular posters do tend to 'hog' the boards and don't mind who they offend.  But as OT says, most of those posting have had their children years and are often going through some tough times. 

I hope your dd does continue to flourish, but as OT says, a lot of issues sometimes don't surface until school age.

To answer your question, yes I do, parent therapeutically, most days anyway.


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## Daizy (Feb 25, 2011)

Amazing replies already, thank you guys. 

'Attachment parenting' covers such a wide spectrum of ideas and concepts. Some of the stuff is clearly helpful, vital even, however some of it isn't (and there's SO much merchandising). Trying to re-do developmental stages for example, and 'babying' kids (sometimes kids who are into their teens). There also seems to be a propensity in much of the literature towards 'holding' as a tool that can be utilised for early intervention (rather than as a last resort).  

I guess there IS a fine line between being rationally prepared/observant and assuming (pre-empting) issues. Certainly I've been guilty of the latter in the past. I didn’t have any expectations of my little one, I just sort of expected that she'd lag behind other kids. I feel a bit guilty about that now, because she hasn't lagged in the slightest – she's such a clever and capable little girl. It seems that kids who find themselves in care automatically stop just being kids, and are immediately labelled traumatised kids, and the blanket generalisation leads into the realms of stereotyping/self fulfilling prophecy.


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## Old Timer (Jan 23, 2005)

Daizy

Its like everything in life, some bits work well for some but not for others and some are more than what some need.  You have to pick through and decide what works best for your LO and be prepared to change that line of thought when things stop working.  Holding isn't actually advised anymore in the sense of restraint holding.

Don't underestimate the importance of going back on developmental stages or babying older children.  A lot of adopted children that are placed as older children and likely to have lived in the birth families for a while will have missed out on important bonding and babying which can cause a lot of damage.  Margot Sutherland writes about the brain and how experiences in early years can impact on a child, might be worth a read.  

I have a friend (well couple) who have adopted, they were on the same prep course as us, and their DD has very clear attachment and separation issues but they have totally ignored it all.  I often wonder whether they were actually on the course to be honest    They parent traditionally and still have after 4 years a very insecure, scared little girl whose behaviour has gotten worse since starting school.

When they start school they will obviously be monitored academically which high-lights many issues but probably more importantly for our children it brings about a lot of questions and feelings of being different, not knowing where they belong or who they really are.  The curriculum isn't designed around adopted children, it is designed around the birth family, and can cause a lot of anxiety and uncertainty.

Parenting adopted children IS different but like everything there is a range of this.

OT x


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## wynnster (Jun 6, 2003)

This is a great read and might come in handy in answering your questions in 'why' some children may benefit from 'babying' and other non traditional methods.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Whole-Brain-Child-Revolutionary-Strategies/dp/0553807919

Why do you think babying isn't one of the things which is vital in some children? Your dd is still very young, but when she gets to 5/6 or older and seems to want to be a baby at times, like sit on your lap, sucking her thumb and having you sing to her, or even sit having skin-to-skin contact, or ask to use a bottle for her milk, don't underestimate that this may not be a 'want' but may be a crucial 'need' for her. It doesn't happen often but my son does ask for all of these things, for him I think it is part of him being aware that he didn't do the tiny baby stage with me, his mum.
I cannot recommend the above book enough.


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

One big struggle I had was getting Wyxling to let me baby her, hell to even care for her, and I found that really hard.  It took a long time and a lot of inventiveness to finally manage to get some situations where I could look after her properly without a huge fight, and baby her.  People don't realise how hard it is to deal with a bit toddler that's really determined to hurt you or them, and keep both of you safe.  While she can't really hurt if she hits, kicking me in the ribs is a different matter, as is being headbutted in the face, and stopping a child biting you if you're trying to hold them is next to impossible, and when she got her teeth into me, she'd just refuse to let go.    She's become so used to being so independent and she didn't want to give that up.  I thought that bringing an 18 month old home would in many ways be like a baby, an 18 month old is a baby really, but it was nothing like having a little baby at all.  She's nearly 2 1/2 now and I'm able to baby her a lot more.  She's gradually come to like it, but it has to be on her terms a lot of the time, and with her at least partially in control.  

We did get there in the end, but I worry a lot about her starting state nursery and then school.  I can't see how she will cope with it at the moment, although we do have a while before it's due.


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## thespouses (Jan 5, 2006)

Lovely posts from everyone and very interesting.

We know that parenting little boy will be different to parenting other children, though given his history we don't believe it will be due to trauma or separation. However some adoptive parents would have you believe otherwise. I'm a professional in a related field and I trust a) my judgement b) the actual scientific studies I've read. But our story isn't typical even of young UK placed children, and most of the reasons we may have difficulties are ones we can't even tell people (it's easier to point out that leaving the only parents you've known aged 12 months might be hard, than to tell people the full history of why little boy's birth mum couldn't parent him or her 2 older children).

I also think that some of the techniques that people suggest are just basically being nice to children, or realistic about their abilities, and more parents should use them! Such as wondering what children are thinking in order to get them working out what they are thinking/feeling by themselves, or only giving them limited choices or a small, non-overwhelming range of toys to play with. Or actually telling them about their genetic origins (which some step families don't seem to!).

I have to say that some of the books and authors that people recommend on there.. well... as a professional I cringe. Some of them have absolute bees in their bonnets and many of them just like to blind with science. It seems like if someone mentions "brains" then people will swallow anything. Just saying something is "bad for children's brains" or "affects their brains" or "this is the bit of the brain they are using" (usually we know nothing even close to that) makes people go OF COURSE THAT MUST BE RIGHT. And then pay loads for XYZ therapy that has no scientific trials...


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## Daizy (Feb 25, 2011)

Hi OT and Wynnster,

I do know of Margot Sutherland's theories. I've read reams upon reams of stuff on child development over the years. The conclusion I tend to agree with is that certain developmental stages CAN'T be re-done. This is just the conclusion I sway towards, others of course reach their own conclusion. 

Perhaps the couple you know Old Timer from prep group were a bit confused by the whole attachment thing. Certainly the social workers who led OUR prep group were confused – to the extent that they used terms such as attachment disorder/issues (usually whilst referencing literature by 'attachment therapists') interchangeably with attachment theory! There wasn't really ANY behaviour that couldn't be classed as symptomatic of attachment issues. And many of the 'symptoms' are wildly contradictory (one such was children with attachment issues tending to have a high pain threshold, yet apparently they also tend to be sensitive to even the lightest of touch). I haven’t seen any research or evidence relating to the age regression (encouraging children to regress to infant status) because, again, it's not related to attachment theory or research thereof, it's a method which is completely unique to the practice know as 'attachment therapy'.  

I'm not criticising people for the way they choose to parent. I don't want to offend anyone - I hope I haven't


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## Handstitchedmum (Mar 24, 2013)

I like this thread and please continue with the topic while I interrupt!  

I just wanted to mention that I have a high pain threshold and I'm also sensitive to the slightest of touches. As far as I know, they are different nerve pathways. =) I dare not say brain, lest someone assume I am an expert giving advice. ;-) 

I do agree with you lovely, sensible people. Like thespouses, I have a relevant degree/background which makes it easier for me to ignore the rubbish and focus on the important bits. My casual confidence doesn't generally endear me to zealots of any sort so I quickly learned not to get involved in any remotely scientific discussion on forums. Like Wyxie, I have changed my name on Adoption UK to (1) keep myself unidentifiable and (2) well, best keep that second reason to myself.  

I empathise deeply with parents who are so desperate to 'fix' their 'damaged' children, but these are people we are talking about. These lovely little people are the only ones who can make it better. They need to take responsibility for themselves. This requires a certain level of development that some simply don't have yet and a few might never have. As adoptive parents, we can do everything we can to give them that opportunity, that secure, safe space to grow. But we are finite. We cannot do everything. And that is something we all (including our children) need to accept and even grieve. 

So yes, my preferred theory is to make room, take notice, and be kind. Sorry, no fancy acronyms or labels or diagnoses. It basically involves being yourself and doing what you can to help people grow into themselves.

It's really nice to see that other people feel the same.


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## crazyspaniel (Sep 12, 2012)

Handstitchedmum,
What a great job of summing up you have done,thank you!!
Have been giving this a lot of thought and reading a lot more and have been struggling with translating it all into practicalities of everyday life, I.e. what it is you should actually be doing!
Make room, take notice and be kind works for me  . Xx


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

I think the other thing that's very hard about trying to parent very difficult children therapeutically, is that we are all human, and everyone has a boiling point, whether you know it or not.

I would not have believed I could have got as angry with a child as I have with Wyxling at times.  Most of the time I can stay calm and intellectually, I know that her behaviour is not her fault.  But sometimes it's just so upsetting that I do get angry.  When a child is doing everything they can to hurt you but not in a rage, just in a very high level of agitation which will often make them laugh/get quite hysterical.  It's very, very hard to stay calm sometimes.  Most of the times I've got angry I've managed to keep very calm on the outside, but a couple of times I've really lost it and shouted at her, and she's made me cry a few times and I've just felt like I have to walk away, then instantly regretted it.  I guess different people "lose it" in different ways.  I think the hardest thing sometimes is accepting you're human, and there's only so much you can do.  I tend to beat myself up for not managing to do things perfectly all the time, because I sometimes feel like that is what's needed for children like Wyxling.  It's often felt like she needs someone who gets it absolutely right all the time.  But then sometimes I think actually, the times when I've made the most progress with Wyxling is when she's upset me and made me really shout at her, possibly because it's a very rare thing, and just said sorry, but I love her, and Mummy gets upset and angry and makes mistakes too sometimes.


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## Daizy (Feb 25, 2011)

Handstitchedmum said:


> I just wanted to mention that I have a high pain threshold and I'm also sensitive to the slightest of touches. As far as I know, they are different nerve pathways. =) I dare not say brain, lest someone assume I am an expert giving advice. ;-)


You're right, my example actually illustrates more how colossally inclusive the (documented) indicators/symptoms of attachment issues are (there are a lot of core contradictions too). My point really was about how bewildering the topic of attachment can be for the adoptive parent (because pretty much ANY behaviour can be reframed to fit).


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## Old Timer (Jan 23, 2005)

Wyxie

Don't beat yourself up about shouting, as you say we are only human and sometimes it can get too much and we 'lose it'.  The good thing is you recognise it, you feel bad and you repair it.  5 years in with a child who does have attachment issues I still lose it at times, they are rare now but it can happen.  I dont think it has a bad effect on him or our relationship because it gets repaired but he does need to know that he upsets people at times.

Daizy, sounds as though your SWs need to do a bit more training.    I hope your LO continues to do well and you never have to face some of the difficulties people on AUK do, or even the ones on here with slight issues because it can be sole destroying at times.

OT x


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## Handstitchedmum (Mar 24, 2013)

I share your frustration with people who try to turn attachment styles into disorders. It is not always helpful to label behaviours in this way. Like most anything, having a specific attachment style is only a problem if the people around you are not accommodating of that style.

As a multi-cultural expatriate, I feel all too keenly how differently people relate to each other, all over the world. I feel really uncomfortable with any claim that one style is categorically superior to another without any context. The truth is, a particular attachment style may be highly successful in certain environments and jobs and cultures... And really disadvantageous in others.

In the case of adoption, the context is that children need to develop and grow in a way that enables them to navigate the changing modern world. Naturally, children are vulnerable but in absence of a ready caretaker to meet their needs, many children will attempt to meet their own needs. In my experience, this can't be unlearned. I'm not sure what the 'right' way to parent these children is. Respecting their distance and self-sufficiency? Forcing intimacy and dependency on them? Or attuning to their needs and giving them opportunities to choose closeness and trust?

I think this is where we each need to make our own choices, as there is no single right way to be or raise a person. It is shameful that support services don't stress this more, as feeling like you are doing something 'wrong' is not at all helpful.  Perhaps some support staff could benefit from a spot of therapeutic parenting themselves? ;-)


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## MummyAuntieKatie (Oct 18, 2012)

Handstitchedmum said:


> make room, take notice, and be kind. Sorry, no fancy acronyms or labels or diagnoses. It basically involves being yourself and doing what you can to help people grow into themselves.


I love that, keep it simple and you can't go far wrong. xx


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

AuntieKatie said:


> Handstitchedmum said:
> 
> 
> > make room, take notice, and be kind. Sorry, no fancy acronyms or labels or diagnoses. It basically involves being yourself and doing what you can to help people grow into themselves.
> ...


I think that is a nice idea, but I also think it's coming dangerously close to the idea that a loving family and lots of patience will fix all for adopted children, and I don't think anyone really thinks it's that simple. Not that it doesn't help, but you can make room, take notice and be kind in many different ways, and at the end of the day you will be the one left dealing with the behaviour that children exhibit as a result of attachment problems or early trauma (and I think there's a huge crossover there), and making choices about how you will deal with discipline/consequences/teaching children to behave differently. I do think certain attachment styles can be a problem. A child, for example, with very insecure attachments who worries about a carer returning is almost certainly at a disadvantage from one who has confidence that Mummy loves him and will always come back, and doesn't even consider anything else. I think the word disorder seems to imply it's a physical problem with brain development, where actually most children in care have attachment difficulties because that's how they've learned to behave to protect themselves, e.g. children who've moved a lot may be far too friendly with any new adults in their lives because they're worried that this is the person they'll be dumped with next. Over time, I think a lot of these anxieties, and the behaviours that display as a result, can be at least significantly reduced.

In reality, I think if you're unlucky enough to have a child placed who has some extreme problems attaching to you, then it's likely you'll need good professional help - and from a decent children's mental health professional, not from Social Workers, who generally don't understand anywhere near enough about this to give the advice they do - probably half the reason why it always feels so confused.

Wyxling, I think, will always have some insecurities. I don't know if we'll ever be able to allay that completely, and the resulting need for control over important people in her life. I don't know why I feel so sure about that when she's only 2 1/2, but both my husband and I have a gut feeling there will always be wobbles to some degree or another.


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## Handstitchedmum (Mar 24, 2013)

I think that is the spirit of it, Wyxie: we can do our best to cushion and contain but we cannot fix. I am not advocating that love is enough; rather, that we will never be enough to fix someone. That doesn't mean we cannot have an impact as parents. We do have responsibilities to our children (ethically and legally) and sometimes we need support to fulfil our responsibilities.

It's a sad fact that support is often withheld unless people have the right diagnoses. I would much rather see timely support that builds on family strengths rather than a cookie-cutter approach. Your comment about social workers versus mental health professionals is spot on.

I do appreciate that I've grossly simplified a few very complex theories on child development with my previous comments. I do not wish to lead people astray. People should always seek advice from professionals if they have concerns about their parenting styles or wish to know more.


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## Mamaji (Jan 21, 2011)

Am not sure we would get through the day with our two lo if we didn't parent therapeutically!  We are permanent foster carers, kids are with us as their forever family until they become adults and beyond.

Our two are ages 12 and 8, both experienced extensive neglect from birth and both have attachment difficulties as a result.  My 12 yr old can be singing along to One Direction one minute and the next regressing to a 2 yr old hiding in the foetal position because a certain smell has triggered memories of trauma.  Our youngest when tired, regularly tries to grab my breast to try to suckle, she wants rocked to sleep.  Both have regular 2 yr old style tantrums, throwing themselves to the ground, wailing, banging their fists.  Regression happens constantly, often with triggers happening that are not immediately recognise able as their sensory awareness is where most of the trauma memories are held.

Without awareness of attachment issues and re-parenting them therapeutically, I think we might have gone slowly loopy .  With the awareness, we know how to respond in a way that can enable LOs to find their way to a safe space inside themself which allows us to nurture and love them.  I thought I knew how to love someone, but these two precious angels have taught me how unconditional that love needs to be I order for it to reach them.  Love, a little knowledge and a whole heap of patience seem to be the key for us


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