# this morning-discussing IVF



## ♥JJ1♥

This Morning currently discussing IVF and should it be nhs funded
L x


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## pinkpixie

dont know if i should be watching this can feel myself getting worked up already!!!


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## Shelleylouise73

Im fuming!!!!!!!!!! WHY SHOULDNT WE BE FUNDED 

Really winds me up that people who can concieve naturally says we shouldnt be funded!!!!


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## mrspaddy

I just watched it and it's made me so angry! There's also been comments on this morning ******** page which have been out of order. Why cant people understand how devastating it is


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## Shelleylouise73

Really not happy with the response on this and not sure if i want to look at the ** page as i'll get so angry!


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## leann

Makes my blood boil! Stupid ignorant ppl!!!!


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## Sho Po

I didn't watch it but my Mum did and sent me a very cross email telling me all about it, bless her. 

All I know is that if those people who say it shouldn't be funded had ever had to deal with the heartbreak of IF I'm sure they'd sing a different song. My opinion is that, as UK tax payers, over our and our children's lifetimes we will have more than paid for the treatment we've had.


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## Mollieboo+Two

I watched it and was angered by the representation of infertile people. I felt the girl who was denied treatment was obviously nervous and unable to voice her beliefs and when asked about inability to having a baby being an illness she said no its that she 'wants' a baby, which to people who easily have children doesnt strongly put forward a case for nhs ivf.
I was also angry that ivf was being compared to cancer treatment. of course cancer treatment is more urgent and important. but they should compare it to nhs cosmetic surgery (for boob jobs etc) or to nhs terminations (I bet a few million are spent on those each year) or to the millions spent on illnesses due to alcoholism, smoking and drug addicts.

Usually people who are trying for a baby endevour to eat and drink healthily and live a moderatetly healthy lifestyle so are not putting a drain on the nhs like many other people.

Also I am fed up with fertility being talked about as if it is a lifestyle choice.  Having a family is a natural progression in life, we are here to procreate (sp?) and I think infertility should be classed as an illness.


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

The good news is that at the end of this morning the poll vote was that 68% think IVF SHOULD be funded and 32% so no. IVF is always a soft target that people who are not in it will never understand. It does not cost the NHS the amount it costs us privately - just as paying privately for anything is hugely inflated.

The world health organisation classes IF as an illness and there is a human right (article 12) to found a family.

All these people are just STUPID   and judgmental on a subject they know little about.

We are excluded from NHS care because my DH had a child with someone else 16 years ago. I have also worked out that if I am kept in full time work and paying my existing tax bill as an average over my career, I personally will have paid £702,000 (not including council tax, VAT etc)

Why do I have to pay for everyone else to have their healthcare needs met and children schooled and all the self abuse and accidents that are the direct result of stupidity and........ contraversial here..... don't mean to upset anyone - but 2 more years with their 90 year old elderly granny with cancer (when I will never have children OR grandchildren without treatment and my parents will never have grandchildren after all the tax they paid too?). If the argument is that they have paid in to the system - SO HAVE I!

And if you say I am paying so much tax then I must be able to afford it privately - why should I - is the NATIONAL health service - ''free to all at the point of need'' means tested now too?

They should get me on This Morning to put across the real views - they would have a run for their money with me. (I am not however volunteering just yet - ET on Sunday and have to remain calm - no blood boiling this weekend)


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## Mollieboo+Two

Hazel - here! here! totally agree!  good luck for ET - I have EC on monday!  I also think they could have had stronger advocates for IVF putting their views across.


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## Sho Po

Extremely well put Hazel


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## ♥JJ1♥

I was irked by the way the woman with the 5 kids said that she didn't agree with all the single women getting NHS funded IVF - I emailed asking her to share where all these single were getting IVF funded on the NHS as it certainly isn't any of the FFer on here.  I have spent over £70K on my cycles, every test and operation, whilst meanwhile I have contributed to her 5 kids education and healthcare!!

L x


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## Shelleylouise73

♥JJ1♥ -  to you!!

Well said everyone! As many have mentioned, people that havent gone through IVF will NEVER understand!!! Its frustrating but we WILL all get what we are aiming for!!!!

 and stay focused!!!!


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

I should not read the comments from the idiots but I did 

One idiot said that there were other options - e.g. surrogacy - WTF? 

How do they think surrogacy works? And what is it for? It is for women who have lost their uterus or who physically cannot carry a baby because of physical illness, not for women who have blocked tubes or male factor. Makes me want to SCREAM!

You pay 3 -4 times the amount an IVF cycle costs with no guarantees. There is a long wait and ethical committees to attend. There are hardly any surrodate mothers available.

If it is host surrogacy you do IVF anyway to get your eggs and there is no legal obligation for the surrogate to give the baby to you once it is born. Plus that does not solve my need to be pregnant and have a baby myself.

Someone told me to get a surrogate after Beanie died - whether Beanie was in my womb or someone else's he/she would still have died, because the baby was small for dates and probably had a chromosomal problem. My womb kept the pregnancy going with no signs of ending for about 3 weeks after the baby died and the placental histology was normal.

Arrrrrrraggggggg Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

THESE PEOPLE ARE STUPID


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## Shelleylouise73

I agree and its so annoying especially when they have no idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

x x


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## ♥JJ1♥

Hopeful Hazel said:


> I should not read the comments from the idiots but I did
> 
> One idiot said that there were other options - e.g. surrogacy - WTF?
> 
> How do they think surrogacy works? And what is it for? It is for women who have lost their uterus or who physically cannot carry a baby because of physical illness, not for women who have blocked tubes or male factor. Makes me want to SCREAM!
> 
> You pay 3 -4 times the amount an IVF cycle costs with no guarantees. There is a long wait and ethical committees to attend. There are hardly any surrodate mothers available.
> 
> If it is host surrogacy you do IVF anyway to get your eggs and there is no legal obligation for the surrogate to give the baby to you once it is born. Plus that does not solve my need to be pregnant and have a baby myself.
> 
> Someone told me to get a surrogate after Beanie died - whether Beanie was in my womb or someone else's he/she would still have died, because the baby was small for dates and probably had a chromosomal problem. My womb kept the pregnancy going with no signs of ending for about 3 weeks after the baby died and the placental histology was normal.
> 
> Arrrrrrraggggggg Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
> 
> THESE PEOPLE ARE STUPID


I know HH- people are so ignorant and these programmes that don't portray IVF, infertility and people's struggles well then influence even more of the masses watching!!

Re; the surrogacy as someone with a defective womb unable to probbaly carry my own child - do they not realise how much harder it is to find a surrogate to start the process, than find an IVF clinic, which the other ladies and the poll was asking for NHS to fund treatments, where _maybe_ (as we all know it isn't guarnateed as they also implied one cycle and bingo there's a baby in 9 months!) there is a chance of pregnancy and a live baby!

They had a surrogate mother and then her daughter who also became a surrogate mother for a couple on and they did it well, but make it sound so easy!!


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## Ipswichbabe

Whats the link, for viewing this on GMTV ********?


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## ♥JJ1♥

sorry it was This Morning- you know how morning TV is all the same!!
Here's the link http://thismorning.itv.com/thismorning/health/should-ivf-be-available-nhs
L x

/links


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## bumblebee22

Hi ladies can i firstly say i have been fortunate to have had 5 children naturally, ive always worked full time and now i am also having IVF with my husband as we have no children together,  the love we have for each other is second to none.....we have to pay private and have already spent over 22,000 with no luck so far, and even though we pay private i think women who have NO children regardless of how many their partners have should be given the chance.....lets face it we all pay tax and there are women out there who have kids purley for benefits but the goverment still house them pay for bills etc so whats wrong with giving women that chance especially when they will be children who will be loved so so much by us all......amen!!!! good luck to you all im now waiting for my ED to give me some precious embies should be having ET around middle to end Nov!!!!!!


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## daisy22

Hi,

I saw this on friday morning too. I think some of the problem is that they dont really have time on programmes like this to cover it in any depth- so everything is very superficial and sensational. I think they do some of it for effect- like its a simple choice- Funding IVF deprives others of cancer tx!! Thats crazy nonsense- the amount of money actaully spent on IVF is miniscule. Its no wonder so many people are ignorant when this is where they are getting their information from.

I wish IVF funding was fair and equal accross the NHS. I also think if its not possible to fund all 3 cycles then there should be a way of subsidising cycles 2 & 3 (at least) so couples are brankrupted by this process. 

Another thing that bugs me- they make out that all IVF is for older women who have been too 'selfish' to start a family earlier. Well firstly Women of lots of different ages need IVF for a whole variety of reasons. Secondly peoples lives dont fit into nice windows and couples shouldn't be penalised for waiting to start their family until they are secure in their lives. It seems to me society is less judgemental of 14 year old mums!   

I think you make some very intelligent and articulate points Hazel, you would def be a worthy advocate for us all! 

It would be nice to see some intelligent journalism on fertility tx and infertility without the sensationalism. Perhpas then some of the very ignorant views people hold may be changed.


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

The age thing - no one realises how long getting to the IVF stage takes sometimes, especially when there are lots of issues to contend with, fertility and non fertility related.  The NHS wasted 3 years of our time on waits between investigation appointments.
Then it does not always work 1st time - if it does and you have a late miscarriage it takes a long time to recover. We started trying in 2000, just after my mum died when I was 29. I am now 39, and newly (4 hours ago) PUPO again. 2ww here I come - and IF it works I will be a mum around my 40th birthday. I never intended that.


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## daisy22

Hazel,

Your absoloutely right hun-  I think some people think we just wake up one morning and say to ourselves 'oh I know I'll have a go at IVF today!'

The whole process is poorly understood by people who have no experience of it.

Congrats on being PUPO!!! Sending you lots of stciky vibes


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## Hopeful J

Ended up commenting on the ** page - couldnt resist    tried to be as 'amicable' as possible without spiiting rage at the screen, people are just so so so ignorant.   


I was very lucky and got my DD on my 2nd tx - although it wasnt without alot of heartbreak. 

After my 1st failed tx  i was told that was it, no more goes for me. I was devestated. I didnt know much about IVF - i'd seen adverts for egg sharing and this was what i wanted to do but dp wasnt happy about doing that until we'd had our nhs go. 1 go. Granted i dont earn 100k per month but i get good money and have worked/paid tax since 16 years old and never sponged a penny off anyone. I've NEVER EVER been out of a job. 

At 25 years old i was told that was it - no family for me. 

Its not like i have years ahead of me to go through many tx's. My only solution to my problems is hysterectomy and until i have this done i live with excrutiating pain every month. I'm suffering it and getting on with things as best i can because the pain i feel cannot compare to the pain of finality that comes with a hysterectomy. 


UGH i've gone off on one - really just wanted to say i could accept the 'con' clubs opinion if it was based on facts and research, but its not. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but base it on the facts not just what you 'think'. It doesnt bother me that these kinds of comments are made (whatever the topic, they'll always be someone to argue with it. You'd go mad if you tried to bring everyone round to your way of thinking ) - It bothers me most that these are blind comments made by blinded people. 


  on Being PUPO Hazel 


xx


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## SWGirl

I didn't see the broadcast but my thoughts are that NHS funding for various treatments are largely based on how effective the treatment is (in terms of the cost in relation to the difference/benefit it will make to someones life) and how much pain / emotional trauma it is causing.  IVF in general is pretty effective (average of 3 to 5 attemps and it usually works) and in terms of relieving emotional pain, just read the posts of the people on this site.  As the main success factor is the womans age, making people save money for a year or more between cycles is really detrimental to the success statistics for the treatment    . It's interesting that people with knee problems and other health problems caused by excessive eating are given operations, procedures and medications without question whilst other people that are suffering the long term trauma of infertility are turned away.  If someone gave me the choice between infertility or painfull knees/back, I'd take the painful knees or back without hesitating.  How can someone say that painful knees or backs are more painful / traumatic than infertility?! What could possibly effect someones future more than not having a family?! Which treatment is most effective in improving lives?  It's odd that the NHS will pay for counselling and prescription rate antidepressants as an alternative to proper treatment.  At least we get one free cycle with the NHS in Devon now.  When I first started IVF treatment in 2005, Devon couples recieved no NHS funding whilst some counties offered 3 cycles.  That made me cross as we pay the same taxes so I feel we should receive the same services in return for our contributions.  If the NHS is not about improving lives but about preventing / delaying death instead then it should really be called the national sick service instead of the national health service   .  On a final note, we all pay money (taxes) into a pot to ensure we can all have a comfortable and reasonably fair life despite the fat cats.  Those people who say I should not receive funding for treatment should give me my money (taxes) back because if they are not willing to let me dip into the insurance pot we have all created than I do not want to pay into it so that their children can recieve 'free' education or so their parents can receive 'free' care.  What fool continues to pay to an insurance company that refuses to help you when you need it?  That's us.  It makes me feel like I'm being taken for a fool   .  I understand that since the NHS was created in 1948, many more very expensive treatments and procedures and equipment have become available which makes the NHS a more complex business to manage and of course now the bankers and fat cats have brought the country to it's knees there are many excuses based around funding for not offering treatment but what about in the recent 'good' financial times?  Was anyone running to provide this relatively inexpensive (in relation to hospital managers salaries) and very effective treament then?  No all the fat cats and managers were simply too busy lining their own pockets to care.  If the NHS could aim to be the envy of the world in healthcare just after the second world war then surely it could do better now?  The people in authority are one thing (at least they have they motive of lining their own pockets) but the general public that kick up a stink about tax payers money being spent on IVF are just plain weird.  Do they not understand that we are all tax payers together and if they ever need hospital treatment then the infertile people have helped pay for that with their taxes? Perhaps I will need less hospital treatment than those people but you wont catch me on a TV program demanding that the treatment they need / would benefit from is not paid for with my tax payers money... because I have half a brain so I understand that taxes should be used to improve the quality of lives of the general tax payer.  That's what it's all about isn't it?  Such members of the public that are so concerned about how their taxes are spent, should really be campaigning to get the hoards of money back from the bankers and fat cats instead.  Ok... rant over... It feels good to rant!


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## SWGirl

I mainly blame the ignorance on sensational stories published by journalists (and the people that read them that are too lazy to process information like a grown adult). If the papers constantly re-iterated that infertility is a disease with very difficult and sometimes devastating consequences for sufferers then that is what everyone would start to believe (and that would be reporting the reality).

http://theafa.typepad.com/theafablog/2010/08/is-infertility-an-illness-a-personal-perspective-and-call-for-increased-advocacy-for-awareness.html

Too many people think that fertility treatment is a choice. My preferred choice would be to wake up one day and not desire a family. That would be awesome  ! In the words of my lovely mother though; "Unfortunately, I don't think it works like that". She seems to be right. This problem won't stop bothering me  (since 2002). It's a real pain!

This Morning should stop behaving like the Daily Mail and other such hate and fear spreading papers!


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## sarahlou

This makes me so angry but I am not surprised......for people that can have children without a problem they just cant see why its such an issue.  I have spoken to so many people since i had my son about how hard it was and every single one didnt realise what a nightmare it can be.

What does make me cross is that we are compared to illnesses such as cancer.....maybe they should be say "should we be doing more to cut teenage pregnancy and all the money we throw at them in benefits, housing etc" - not making us feel worse than we already feel.  If we are overweight, alcholics or drug addicts it would be put across very differently!!


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