# Potty training- end of my tether. Any suggestions?



## Baileywick (Aug 11, 2015)

Evening all. first time poster here and quite new to FF. I'm looking for advise or inspiration   with regards to potty training our DD. She is 3y 3m old and has been home with DH and I for almost 2 years.
She is a bright, highly energetic, highly imaginative, funny lovely child who we don't think has any SEN issues but time will tell. 
We tried and halted potty training a couple of times from just over 2 years and 2.5 years as she just wasn't getting it. We started this 3rd attempt in June and it's just not working consistently and I don't know if it's a control issue, a lack of concentration or a medical problem? There was no nappy neglect with BM or FC.
She has gone a maximum of 4 days with no wee accidents (Poo's have been almost 100% successful) but then we will have a couple of days in a row where she wets herself several times a day. We try really hard not to be negative when this happens but it's so hard when you're mopping up yet more puddles several weeks down the line. 
If she's playing outside she will often wet herself rather than stop playing to use the potty (we've even put one by the back door) she doesn't seem that bothered about being in wet pants and would stay in them if I didn't insist she changes. She will sometimes wet herself if she's engrossed in CBeebies even if the potty is beside her. She wets herself with a smile on her face if she's been ticked off about something else. Eg, DH told her off gently for scratching me deliberately in anger the other day and said she couldn't have any TV until after lunch. So she crouched down, smiled and peed on the floor. We ignore this and just clean up in a matter of fact way.
She's not hugely motivated by rewards but we have occasional success with a reward chart. I have been saying that if she manages 2 no accident days she can have a treat of her choice (she normally asks for raspberries or a kinder egg) today was a treat day so she had her egg this morning. This afternoon she wet herself 3 times. Twice in the garden and once in her bedroom. 
She goes to nursery in pants and stays for 3 x  4hrs per week. She hasn't had ANY accidents there at all so we know she can do it, she just doesn't want to....any ideas please?
Ps, she is also free to use the toilet which she can and does do and has a variety of plain and all singing all dancing potties. She also has pants which she has chosen herself.


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## Macgyver (Oct 27, 2008)

Sorry bailywick

Can't really give you advice, it sounds like you are doing everything. I just wanted to send you hugs and say stay strong. X


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## Tincancat (Mar 19, 2012)

It sounds behavioural if she can manage it at nursery.  Have you tried asking nursery what they are doing?  Are they asking her more often or perhaps anticipating it and taking her after meals and drinks?
TCCx


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## Arrows (Nov 9, 2008)

We did a reward system -a sticker for his top every time he did a wee and a star sticker for his chart -then a little car as a reward for lots of wees in the week. We then expanded it to cover everything positive -including saying thank you, putting on a piece of clothing, tidying up, not screaming, wees/poos on toilet. He got loads (20-30 a day!) and loved all the praise and positive attention.


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## crazyspaniel (Sep 12, 2012)

I would say its a control issue, certainly she knows how to do it but maybe not complying gives her a more satisfactory response....ignore it as much as you can, 'oh dear, you didn't manage to get to the toilet, lets get you changed' try to keep it matter of fact and avoid an emotional response. 
My daughter used to regularly wee on purpose and laugh afterwards, I tried not to react and it took a while but she's not doing it now unless very disregulated  

Try to make sure she has control over other choices as much as possible, choosing clothes, which cup to drink out of etc, whatever helps to make her feel like she has control.

Have you considered sensory processing problems especially if she seems to enjoy being wet?

Keep up the positive praise when she gets it in the right place, wishing you lots of luck and endless patience, it's hard work....!! Xx


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## Baileywick (Aug 11, 2015)

Thanks everyone , I'm pretty sure also that it's behavioural, designed to get a response. I just feel sad because she gets my attention ALL the time, or so it seems so I don't get why she feels the need to do this. I feel sad for her :-( 
I really need to keep my emotions in check as well, more and more recently I've been prone to tears of frustration and it can't be helping the situation. 
Today I collected her from nursery, 5 hours with no accidents. Fifteen minutes home, playing play dough at the table with me, she wets herself "oops I wet my pants" Calm practicle response from me, wet clothes off, carry on playing. Then we have a mini meltdown 1/2 hour later as she rdestroys all the magazine cuttings I've cut for her to stick on cards. I tell her she's not behaving very nicely so she goes and pees all over the kitchen floor. 
An hour later we are playing with a wind up toy on the floor. Laughing and giggling away, she stands up, perched on the edge of a canvas storage box and pees inside it, covering loads of jigsaw pieces and games. When I asked her why she did it (I couldn't manage calm the third time..) she said she couldn't see her potty. She KNEW where it was. I'm afraid I resorted to putting a nappy on her I was so fed up. She wears one at night and this was about an hour earlier than normal. 
Crazy spaniel. You're spot on, I've got to try a non emotional response. I think we probably do try to control things too much with her, I need to let go a bit, it's probably connected. 
Thanks again,much appreciated to just get it off my chest


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

We had similar issues with Wyxling on and off until she was about 4 1/2.  She has pretty big control issues.  To start with I tried rewards etc and it never helped.  

I learned just to clean her up, show lots of empathy for how yucky it feels, and never ever acknowledge that I knew it was deliberate no matter how completely blatant it was.  I always cleaned her before the mess, and made sure that was the focus, and she saw that her weeing on the sofa etc was no inconvenience to me at all (although sometimes if she asked me to do something afterwards I'd explain that I just needed to clean this up first, then we could do our thing).  She'd he it for a few days and then stop and then do it again for a bit and then stop, but in the absence of a reaction it got less frequent and she got less serious about it.  She'd do it for a few days, get a bit frustrated that I wasn't at all bothered by it, and then stop again.  Honestly I think we'd have had issues for a lot less time if my husband hadn't been incapable of hiding his frustration with it, or the fact he knew it was deliberate. 

Wyxling still soils herself in times of high stress, such as if Bladelet hurts me badly, and I think that's because it's a real trigger for her because of early domestic violence, but that's a little different from the deliberate weeing places we used to get.

I really sympathise with the frustration though, it's a complete pain in the backside and very infuriating.  If it stays a very regular problem, perhaps pull ups for a while would take the stress out of things for both of you.  It may not of course, because she may just take them off and wee on the floor anyway, and that makes it harder to ignore, but it could do!

All the best,

Wyxie xx


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## Little Miss Giggles (Apr 1, 2009)

Just wanted to say I fully empathise! We've been going at this since the beginning of June and still have accidents. Different issues between our little ones as our little man is better at home than nursery but I feel you pain!


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## GERTIE179 (Apr 20, 2005)

Another one to offer empathy here. My lil guy doesn't use pee as control but we still have lots of poo "incidents". Some of it may be sensory for us but there's a huge part that is his need to control (he really doesn't want to grow up and I feel his main rebellion with his body developing).

It's a jigsaw puzzle to get to the root of the behaviour and sometimes I can't stay calm about it all but on the whole I believe this phase shall pass. We also notice things like transitions and nursery etc ramp up things I.e. He manages ok outside the house but must be really listening to signals etc and very aware but at home relaxes as its his safe place. As annoying as it is I would either revert to pull ups for a time or go back to basics by taking her to toilet before/after activities (although she may not go and after putting pants etc on may have an "accident")
Xx


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## Arrows (Nov 9, 2008)

My 3.5yr old son will lie there in bed whilst I'm sat with him reading a story and deliberately poo in his pull up, despite having been to the toilet 5 minutes before and being asked repeatedly if he needs the toilet. We have a lot of changes and uncertainty going on at the moment so it's definitely a control issue.


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## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

My youngest  is awful with any changes  and fights 100% no words of wisdom but empathy  her potty training  is a nightmare  too xx


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## Bunny Face (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi Baileywick, 

My DD has wee accidents too, she is 3.3 and has been potty trained since April.  My daughter suffers with chronic constipation and this causes bladder incontinence but as your daughter seems to be able to control her bladder at nursery then I suspect it is behavioural. 

I know this seems a bit counter productive but have you tried moving back to nappies for a while at home to break the behavioural pattern.  This will ease the stress and pressure you are both under and the nappy changing process will strengthen your attachment which is a never a bad thing.  Reintroduce the potty training in a couple of weeks by leaving nappies off for an hour or two at the start and building up gradually. 

When my DD struggles with a milestone I tend to go back to basics and take it really slowly, we don't know which parts of our childrens development have been missed during the initial weeks or months of their lives and therefore I 'baby' her at times of big developmental milestones to ensure that all the basic pieces are there.  I've done this with eating, sleeping and potty training.  It may not work for you but my DD always responds quite well to it and again, the 'babying/nurturing' is great for our attachment. 

My social worker (wonderful woman) always advised us to deduct the age that they were at placement from their actual age and treat them accordingly as parenting may have been inconsistent/non existent before that.  In my case that would make my daughter 2.5 and she certainly wasn't ready at 2.5. 

I don't know whether that will help you, but best of luck. 

BF


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## GERTIE179 (Apr 20, 2005)

Hi Baileywick,

How are you getting on? After almost 11 months of being potty trained for "pee" but lots of "poo" accidents and refusal etc, I think my lil man has decided once and for all to be a big boy. No accidents in over 2 weeks and takes himself off with no prompts or anything. Sometimes I think it can just show how much younger our LOs are emotionally. Lil man hates growing up so has definitely been controlling things to a stage (or overwhelmed and ignoring his bodies signals).

Hope things are easing for you too.
X


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## Baileywick (Aug 11, 2015)

Thanks for the further responses everyone, it's really appreciated. We're having good days and bad still. She can go 3 or 4 days with perfect trips to the potty but then have a "tantrummy" day where nothing will stop her from standing where she is and peeing in her clothes. I know some people have suggested going back to nappies but in her case I think this would be a bad move. She hates any suggestion of being "a baby" and would kick off in a big way if I insisted on nappies, it's hard enough getting her night time one on her at times. 
Gertie, I'm really pleased your little fella has cracked it, that's a great achievement after a hard slog, you're right that emotionally they can struggle to keep up with their age. Xx


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## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

I've  gone back to nappies well a pull up today  after 5 months Gertie I take my hat off to you  for coping.  We're  the opposite  totally  fine with  2 but happy  to  wee in her knickers. I've  decided  she's  in them till she decides  to  be  dry it was causing  me too much stress. I offered her the pull up or knickers  and she literally  jumped  for joy to have  the  pull up on. If she's  still in them at 4 then so be it I  think  now. Her peers will put her off them in time I think  xx


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## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

Honestly, I think you're right, Mummy DIY.  Good on you.  (((hugs)))


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## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

Thanks  AOC not feeling  great  about  it  but honestly  can't  be doing  with  it her choice  when she wants  to  move on xxx


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## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah.  Take a break, hon.  There's enough challenges in life for you.  ((((hugs))))


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## GERTIE179 (Apr 20, 2005)

Just to advise we have regressed back and quite clearly knows when (although better at hiding his toilet face) and other times happy to go off himself so definately control related in our house. 

Hope you are getting there and maybe having a small break. 
Hugs x


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## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

Hugs  Gertie  it's  definitely  control  here now  she's  back  in pullups she'll  say my wee coming  out now  and tell me when she's  wet them. When  in knickers  she'd  happily  walk round  wet so  who knows  what  goes on in their little  brains  xxx


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## Baileywick (Aug 11, 2015)

Well we're still struggling with this issue to a greater or lesser extent depending which way the wind is blowing   On a bad day, like Sunday, she will get cross with me for not letting her watch "Let it go" from Frozen on the I-pad 10 times. Her anger at my decision is shown by shouting at me then sitting on the floor in front of me and letting a pint of pee flow out....
Today there has been no anger but we've been outdoors all afternoon with friends on a woodland walk. Despite me asking frequently if she needs a wee she wet herself twice. She hardly ever tells me if she needs to go when we're out so I end up taking piles of soaked clothes home with me.
I said to her the other evening that I was considering putting her back in nappies during the day. She seemed quite concerned and said " no, only nappy at night time"
I've spoken to my husband who rarely has to deal with the problem. Whilst trying hard to be supportive he thinks I've made the whole "being dry" thing into an issue with her. By offering rewards for going on the potty/toilet, by sometimes getting flipping mad at deliberate messing, by asking her too often if she needs the toilet etc it's become something she knows pushes my buttons and therefore she does it   
I've struggled to follow the advice about ignoring it as much as possible, I find it so difficult but if I don't get a hold on my feelings it will carry on even longer. 
Good luck to all those still trying to deal with this (surprisingly common by the responses here)issue.


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## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

Hugs you've definitely not caused it ultimately no one can stay constantly calm in these scenarios.  That's why I went back to pull ups because I was simply getting crosser and crosser and it wasn't doing any good.  Funnily enough she asked for knickers yesterday for the first time since putting her in pull ups
Once she'd wet once at nursery and once st home I put a pull up back on told her no knickers till she keeps them dry.  Luckily she wasn't bothered.  

What about a two pairs of knickers a day policy after that it's a pull up.  Ultimately only you know what is more stressful the current battle or forcing a pull up on.  Hugs x


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## snapdragon (Jun 27, 2011)

I have struggled with this. When out I try and work it into the schedule, so for example we stop for a coffee and go the the toilet or for something like a woodland walk stop for a snack but have a wee first. Lo has only recently got better at 4 and a half. I was dreading him coming home from school with changed clothes everyday but not one accident since starting and accidents at home pretty rare now.


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## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

It's so hard, isn't it?  Bug was a pain in the neck, as at certain stages in his development he'd respond really well to rewards and structure, then once he'd passed those gateways the only thing that helped was ignoring it.

He's fine now as he can hold it for as long as he needs to, but the jiggling/wriggling when he needs to go drives me bonkers.  We've started saying, "stop wriggling, please" instead of "do you need the loo?" and that helps.

Honestly, I think you're right, and you're going to have to manage your reactions.  :-/  I know how hard that is.  When this was an issue for us, we worked hard on only saying, "oh dear, never mind," and clearing up without further comment.  Apart from those 'gateways' that was the only thing that worked.

She doesn't need to be reminded it was a bad thing to do, that's why she did it.  She doesn't need to be reminded you asked her if she needed to go, she heard you.  She doesn't need to know it's hard work keeping her clean and dealing with the messes, she can see that.  When we share our frustration and concern I think sometimes we're subconsciously looking for empathy and sympathy, but of course that's the wrong audience to make those emotional demands with.  We're only human, though.

Sending strength and patience!


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## MummyAuntieKatie (Oct 18, 2012)

We had lots of issues with potty training, we started last Easter just before BB was 4, he had good days but lots of bad days and the real problem was pooping in his pants when he was too 'busy' to go to the loo.  I can accept the odd wee accident but the pooping was getting me down.

Then one day I bought a bag full of second had dinosaurs from someone locally.  After I got them home I had a brainwave, I showed BB the bag and said every time he did a poo on the toilet (we've never used a potty, he didn't like them) he could pick a dinosaur... That morning he went 3 times and I thought I'd created a monster!  Anyhow, it worked (not 100% but maybe 85%) and I was thrilled.  The next big step up came when he went to school, he just seemed to click, we've only had 2 or 3 pee incidents since (mainly little dribbles because he waits too long and gets damp pants).  It seems the school thing made him step it up a gear and I'm so very relieved! I know how stressful it is, especially when you're out and about.  

Things all seem much more manageable once the toilet training thing is cracked!  Good luck! xxx


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