# Self Esteem



## Eilidh M (Feb 20, 2005)

Hi Girls

Sorry that this is a bit of a "me" post, but I am feeling more and more like a nobody these days because I don't have kids.  I work in a small team where everyone has either kids or grandchildren, and they all talk incessantly about their offspring or ask after each other's kids.  Obviously they don't ask me as I have neither kids nor grandchildren, and I end up either being silent or trying to change the subject.    I know kids are at the centre of most peoples' lives, but can't anyone ever talk about anything else ?  As this happens everyday, I can't help feeling like a nobody !    Sometimes I wonder if it is deliberate...they know my situation....but perhaps I am just over sensitive.

I am starting to feel that this is having a big impact on my self -esteem and the way I live.  The incessant child focussed discussions make me feel really small and insignificant. I've got nothing to contribute.  I also avoid out of work social activities with this group as the chat is the same and I feel the same way.

I feel I am just not that interesting to these people because I can't talk about my experiences of morning sickness, breast feeding etc.  

Ohhhh...I've read this back and it sounds so self-pitying .  I know this is only part of my life but mid way through yet another week of baby chat, I just want to disappear into a hole.

Sorry for the rant....but I can't tell anyone else about this and my poor dh has heard it all before  

Thanks for listening.

Love and hugs to you all,

Eilidh
XX


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## irisheyes (Feb 2, 2005)

Oh, Eilidh, i really understand what you are going thru.All the young staff in my staffroom are always discussing babies and pregnancies. In my own languages dept most are over 40 and either have older kids and no grandchildren yet.However they are due to retire in next few years and i dont know what i will do.

The self esteem issue is understandable and i dont really have any words of wisdom on that front as i suffer from it too but i just didnt want you to feel that you are on your own.

I dont go out with many of my friends anymore either as they all have kids now-well i have 2 single friends but sometimes i feel bad moaning to them as they want to meet someone before they can even think of kids!!

Have you gone to counselling? I have thought about it over the last year but havent managed to go yet.

Take care xxxxxx


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## flipper (Jul 7, 2004)

Hi ladies, yep, I'm in the same boat but how about this as an alternative take:  people who can only discuss one thing are simply boring, boring, boring people who should get out more and then they'd have something else to talk about. Weather it's women and the seemingly endless variations on the baby/child/grandchild theme or blokes and cars.

Brush up your self esteem ladies and imagine this:  a room full of accountants with only one thing in common: is their pension fund out performing the rest? It's just the same.  It works for me anyway - and I'm an accountant  

flipper


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Hi Eilidh, flipper and Irish Eyes

I have felt exactly the same as all of you, and, over the years have been feeling really low as not only do I feel I have nothing to contribute in general, but feel I am slowly "losing" my best friends as well.  Not only is the "guess what I'm buying x for Christmas" boring, but I do feel inadequate as well.

I  have recently started an evening class at college.  1 - to get me out of the house and give me another focus in life and 2 - to give me something else to talk about to friends/colleagues.

I feel over the years, I have become "infertile Gill" and I want to re-claim some of my identity and go back to being "me" again.  This whole process is so heartbreaking - it is with you ALL the time and it is very difficult, if not impossible to escape completely.  I think all we can do is try and find "other" focuses to our lives as this will never go away.

Eilidh, do your colleagues all know you have gone through 12 years of ttc and that you still find it difficult?  Maybe it would be good to have a heart to heart with some of the colleagues you are closer to.  Maybe then they might help you "change the subject" when they sense these conversations are making you feel awkward/isolated.

I dont know what the answer is here but all I can say is, you are not alone.

We all understand, we really do and feel free to "rant" any time, that's what we're here for.

Good luck
Love Gill xx


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## irisheyes (Feb 2, 2005)

Yes, Gill I have also started an art class this year too on a Wed night. I go to aerobics with my sister on a Tues too. Missed both this week tho as had to go in to school for Open night where the parents and pupils visit to see the school and missed art class as was dhs bday. Didnt do much but are going out for dinner tonight. Unfortunately af arrived on wed too tho so we had a bit of a mood going last night - i had gone to bed after work and then when got up dh asked why i was so tired? I snapped that i had my period. Wasnt fair i suppose but he did ask!!!! 

I do find it hard to fill the days sometimes. I finally wrote a long e mail to my sister (who is getting married in Aug- only year younger) and told her of my last nightmare year.She always suspected things but i never actually told her how crap i was feeling.When i go to visit her i usually go with my mum and stepdaughter and when she comes up here she stays in my mums.(she lives 100 miles away).She is arranging a weekend for just us so we can chat the way we used to. I know i will still find things hard if she goes on to have a child but at least i know she will understand more if i am having an off day!!!

I am so grateful for having found this site and all you lovely girls. men just dont understand no matter how nice they are!!!
Lots of love  xxxxx


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi Eilidth & girls

Its lovely to hear from you Eilidth although i am sad to see you are having a difficult time, i am glad you came here to talk things through. I can totally understand your situation as all of us do on here...thank goodness we have each other to be able to say what we really feel deep down, and not have to feel as if we have to excuse our feelings. I think you brought up something that we are or all have to endure over the years..its so flipping hard and i am not sure if we ever except our situation but learn to live with it.
There were times when i could have screamed, physically thumped someone (not literally) or told them to shut up. Its so hard as you say to be excluded that seems to be an exclusive club, but whats so hard is that we are the minority,...
I think Flipper has the right approach and that is if you can only talk about children then there isn't much in their lives anyway..
Now its also about finding things to do and getting out alot more....i am starting to look at surrounding myself by people that i feel comfortable with and to threatened. Or if they know our situation then they are more sensitive to it. Also my close friends who do have children want to do other things than talk about the kids...so its a case of protecting myself and surround myself by people that care....the others do they matter
Overall i think the whole 'IF' is so hard and there are so different aspects of coping and dealing with it and the saddest thing of all there is no quick fix...
If only
Please look after yourself and you know where we are...
love astridxx


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## Eilidh M (Feb 20, 2005)

Dear Gill, Irisheyes, Flipper and Astrid,

Thank you so much for your support and constructive comments.  It means so much to me that you have taken the time and trouble to reply in such caring and thoughtful ways.  You are all amazing and have helped me to feel tons better.

Gill.......I think you are right that  the infertility stigma does take over and you lose your identity in all of this.  I have a strong desire to go on a bit of a personal crusade and stand up for those who are living childfree.  We are not selfish nor self-centred, just victims of nature's cruel lottery and I would like to get across the message that despite what is said in the media, IF treatment does not always work !!    I'll get off my soapbox now  .

I think a certain amount of self protection is required to help to retain sanity through all of this.    I am frankly amazed that knowing my situation, my colleagues continue to talk babies ad infinitum, but perhaps that is the only tie which binds them ?  All I can say is that I know so much detail about feeding in the early months now that I could write a book about it   

Thanks again for all your support.

Lots of love,

Eilidh
XXX


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## flipper (Jul 7, 2004)

Hi all, this subject is one that interests me greatly as the conversation doesn't bother me in the least from a LCF perspective but I do find it staggeringly dull. (Maybe I'm just not cut out for the kid thing after all).

Eilidh, I think you've hit the nail in on the head, it may be incentive but it's probably is the only thing many of them have in common. I know if you remove the endless child related chit chat from my office and EastEnders went off air, we'd sit in silence for the most of the day. 

I have adopted something of the strategy to which you refer and do go on occasional crusades of the advantages of living child free, particularly when someone says "oh, you wouldn't understand..."  (often said in a tone just oozing pity). 

True, some things I don't understand. Like not being able to afford a babysitter, like not having to try to split myself in two trying to be all things to everyone, like not trying to organise absurdly extravagant parties for a two year old. I also don't understand how to split the atom but I'm no less of a woman because of it!

There's a famous quote that goes something like "other people can only make you feel small if you let them".  You can't stop them talking ad nauseam about it, but you don't have to let them make you feel any less of a woman as a result.

Good luck for the week ahead, I'm going back to endless childbirth stories as one of my colleagues is attending the birth of a grandchild on Saturday and she'll trigger all the others into recounting their own experiences. I genuinely hope it went well for her but I wish we had a few blokes in with us then they might feel obliged to be less gynaecologically graphic!

flipper


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## Gen (Dec 9, 2004)

Wow ladies,

I completely understand!  I've nothing  much to add to this strand at the moment, but I just wanted you to know how much I enjoyed reading it!

My self-esteem has been hit big time since I started treatment and I totally empathise with you.  Nothing is worse than the pathetic oh poor you..pity, pity, pity looks and comments, and other peoples insensitivity. I'm constantly working to keep my head above water and rise above it.  Not always easy  

Thank goodness for FF  

Gen


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Dearest ladies, 

Eilidh, thank you so much for bringing this subject up. Reading yours and all of the other ladies wise words really struck a chord with me. I have also struggled with this over the years, have been stuck there at work where you are now and like Gill have lost friends along the way. We have also been shunned from hubbys family too because we don't have any grandchildren/cousins to add to the mix. It can be so disheartening and soul destroying. 

A long time ago I realised that I wasn't the one who had the problem with my IF it was other people - and they demonstrated this by the way they were around me. Obviously, its a bit difficult to escape conversation etc at work when you have to be there. Ouch! 

The best way I found to deal with things like this is to take a leaf out of Gill's book and do something for yourself. I have taken up a few hobbies and pastimes over the years that are most definitely not child friendly, but things I have wanted to do for a long time. Call them distraction techniques or call it self preservation - I prefer the latter! Its little things like this that help in big ways. Its even better seeing the look on peoples faces at work (when they pause for breath - lol) when I'm asked what I have been doing at the weekend. Priceless!  

Love to you all, and thanks again, its been very interesting reading.
Emcee xxx


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## Topsy (Jan 18, 2005)

Fab thread and fascinating reading.  

I've heard so much about other people's kids over the years that I feel as if I've been through it myself.  So occasionally I even find myself dispensing childcare advice during these dull workplace conversations...oops.  Sometimes the recipients of my wise advice have been so bemused that they've forgotten to make the mandatory "You wouldn't understand...." pitying comment.  I've not deliberately tried to irritate these smug mums (honest) but when it happens I get some fiendish enjoyment out of it.    

Self-preservation has helped me this last year.  I've taken up swimming, vegetable growing and yoga.  However I love the idea of taking up something more outlandish to shock my workmates on a Monday morning. (I do realise my current hobbies are those of a 65 year old woman so any suggestions welcome!)

Love to you all and don't let the endless kiddy tales grind you down
Topsy


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## EML (Jul 25, 2005)

Thank you, thank you all, ladies!
I've sat here (at work) and suffered it too and been so up myself that it didn't really occur to me that there are so many of us out here!
I've had it all, from the 'guess what' moment right up to the teenage tantrums. I am the 'first aid'er and for some reason I'm asked about everything from abortion to adolescent spots. They all know my situation (my boss deemed it his duty to tell them why I was away following my m/c) and yet they STILL don't seem to get it! And to make it more frustrating, I'm in a department full of MEN! I hear about breaking waters...labour pains...nappies...you name it, they discuss it... and if I make a comment to shut them up, I'm told that I wouldn't understand because I've not been through it! This from men who HAVE obviously been through labour etc.
My retreat is the ladies loo... I know every inch of those broken tiles. I stand there, by the sink...looking in the mirror and at my now ageing face... and trying to splash away any tell-tale tear-stains before returning to the throng. Thank goodness for radio 7!
So, thank you, girls. I feel for you all and just knowing that I'm not alone will help me through the next round of baby-chat.
Love to you all.
EML


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## flipper (Jul 7, 2004)

Hi there ladies 

I'm most amused by the idea of dispensing childcare tips - that really made me laugh as I've fallen for it myself a few times over the years.

Topsy, how about something extravegent like rock climbing, snowboarding or even taking an intensive Salsa course?

I feel obliged to set the record straight as I was unfair on my colleagues, they haven't endlessly recounted childbirth stories.  It's late on Wednesday and I'm sure that we've also managed to squeeze in a couple of Big Brother conversations around the complaints about the maternity ward, the difficulties of a 14 hour labour, how she's expected to get to mother care to pick up the new stuff etc. etc. so it's not as bad as it could have been!  

As an aside, I feel for one of my male colleagues who drifts through occasionally who's been through countless failed IVF cycles with his wife and I can see that the endless references can hurt the men involved in this too. 

flipper


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