# International Surrogacy Ladies



## nevergiveup1

Hello,

I want to open a thread for people who have done international surrogacy or are in the process.
A positive thread to help and support anyone who is doing this.

The purpose is to discuss pitfalls, the wonderful experience and practical advise.

Please anyone with warnings of doom and gloom, I am sure most people who have considered international surrogacy have already been warned and seen the warnings on every single page for international surrogacy. I want this to just be a supportive thread of people going through similar experiences. 

((And if by chance you are reading this and have not come accross the warnings that there could be problems and children that are stateless etc then read a bit more or contact a lawyer for legal advice or do loads more research))before coming here for support!!

I am in the UK, using a surrogate in South Africa who is 29 weeks pregnant! Very excited, have had a wonderful journey. Done loads and loads of research on bringing baby back to the UK!!

I am going to post my interpretation of what I think needs to be done to bring a child back to the UK, if anyone has anything to add, let me know. It is more for other people to mull over as my situation is slightly different.

I really hope there is someone out there that needs support as I really feel that it is something missing, on all the ivf boards there are very supportive threads that discuss all options.


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## nevergiveup1

The link below is very helpful when looking at international surrogacy

http://ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/residency/Intercountry-surrogacy-leaflet

In my research, and this is my interpretation and I want anyone who has any different information to PLEASE let me know, as it would have been easier for me if the information was available and if people discussed problems that they came up against. This would make it an easier and cheaper process for anyone considering this route:

On reading the link above from the UK home office, it appears that the most important thing was that if you are resident in the UK, you need to follow UK laws for surrogacy no matter where you do the surrogacy so that you qualify for a parental order. The UK it appears doesnt recognise a court order from another country stating the IP are the parents, nor a birth cert?? and in most cases the dont recognise adoption from abroad unless it falls under the hague convention.

(((or unless one of the IP's can prove they are habitually resident in the country and the country is a designated country.)))

So things that appear to be important lets presume that the surrogate is married, (worst case senario in the above link) and therefore the child will not be british.

1. You need to qualify for a parental order and make sure all your arrangements are within the UK laws for surrogacy.
(No Commercial element, only expenses can be paid)

2. One of the IPs must be genetically related to the child, this will need to be proved by dna test from an accredited place.

3. The surrogate and her husband need to give up parental rights in their country, so this would be in a court by a court order or adoption, this has to be once the child is older than 6 weeks.

4. If your surrogate is married and therefore britain doesnt recognise either of the IPs( in almost all cases of married surros )as legal parents of the child, you will need to apply for entry clearance outside of immigration rules to apply for a parental order in the UK but you need to make sure of your timings of everything as you have to be back in the UK before the child is 6 months to apply for a parental order!!

THINGS TO CONSIDER

TIMING ONCE THE BABY IS BORN!! How long will you be in the country for

1. How long does it take for the country to issue an unabridged birth certificate
2. How long does it take to issue a passport/ travel document?
3. How long does it take for the surro to give up parental responsibility, either adoption or a court order?
4. How long does it take to issue entry clearance?

((If your surrogate is single, this appears according to the link above to be much more simple as the Intended Father can usually go on the birth cert, see the link above and then the child can get a british passport and you can just travel to the Uk and apply for the parental order once you are here))

*Things that played on my mind and that I looked at before going down this route:*

The famous UKRAINE case, when I looked at this case and looking at the link above this is what I thought, the parents payed a commercial element and so they broke the UK law on surrogacy and therefore when they wanted to apply for entry clearance for a parental order.. they were refused because they broke the law and they therefore would never qualify for a parental order in the UK. This would have been the case if they had done the surrogacy in the UK or if they had done the surrogacy abroad. So then they had to apply to the high court for special permissions and it was expensive and traumatic.

It seems in most cases according to the link above if the surrogate was married the IP would not be regarded by Britian as the parents of the child, but if you follow the laws for surrogacy in the Uk and make sure that you would qualify for a parental order and also do everything within good time then you should not have any problems bringing the child back to the UK with entry clearance described above.

can anyone who has been through this process add anything I have missed or give any advise on things that would be helpful when sorting this out. Or let me know if I am interpreting this incorrectly.

Lots of good wishes to everyone going down this route or surrogacy in the UK!! it is a wonderful journey!!


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## nevergiveup1

http://www.hfea.gov.uk/docs/2010_FEB_surrogacy_FIN.pdf

Above is the link as to what is needed to apply for a parental order when returning to the UK after doing an international surrogacy.

If you make sure you follow the rules so you can apply for a parental order then it appears that you can go to the link of the post above for the home office and follow the rules for entry clearance and provided that it happens within good time for you to return to the UK in good time to apply for a parental order before the 6 month deadline.

Also it appears you need to allow for time of documents and also for the surro to legally give up parental responsibility. For this I took advise from a lawyer in the country that you are doing the surrogacy. In southa africa I was told by a lawyer the only way to give up parental responsibility for the surrogate is by adoption or the high court order for surrogacy. This will depend on the country that you are doing surrogacy in.

Has anyone else any info as to what applied or was important in their case or what they came accross.

Please note that these posts are what I have come accross and been looking at and until I bring baby back, these are issues I am dealing with. I will post what happenned in my case when it happens. Although with research I think I have the right solution for me.

I truly wish everyone luck in their journey and hope that they get their children to love and adore, however it is that they arrive in our lives!!   
It is a painfull and hard journey to get to the point of surrogacy and there is no wrong or right way , best wishes to ALL who read these posts.


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## nevergiveup1

I realised that the above wasnt clear enough so just to clarify.... If the surrogate was married and you qualified for a parental order and obeyed all the rules to apply for a parental order.

It seems that you would need to apply to the home office for a special travel document for the baby once you have done all the above. The baby wont be British AT THIS STAGE. The travel document is so you can travel to Britain and apply for a parental order. Again there must be plenty of time to do it within 6 months.

Once the parental order has been done, the baby would then be British. And you can then apply for a passport.

The web link above to the home office says to let the embassy know well in advance so you can get it all sorted out quickly when you are there. To call them before you travel.

I hope this makes sence as when  was reading my posts back I realised I had not mentioned that the baby will become British after the parental order is done.

If anyone has been through this process, please post and let me know how it all went.


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## kiera19

I just wanted to say, that what you have done is most helpful...... All the information is what i researched also, and this could help many others.

congratulations xxxx

(my ukraine tummy mummy is 28 weeks pregnant )


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## nevergiveup1

Kiera, I am so happy someone has joined me!!

28 weeks, it is all so exciting, we are 34/ 35 weeks and had scan yesturday, baby is doing fine but surro mom was hospitalised! She is fine but was feeling a little ill. She is not in labour and going home today. I am flying in a week and a half and cannot wait to see her as we have become very good friends and she is so special.

Cannot wait! What clinic are you using in ukraine? Do you know what flavour of baby you are having?

We are having a girl!

It is such an exciting and special journey!


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## ♥JJ1♥

nevergiveup1  i hope that you baby and SM are ok, I have read with great interest your postings, I know that you are SA yourself, do you know if it would be more complicated being British and having surrogacy in SA?

I am just starting to explore my options after my last failed DE cycle.
L x


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## nevergiveup1

JJ1, hello. 

Surromom is fine and im getting really excited now.

So sorry about your last failure.  Surrogacy is a wonderfull journey and at times I thought doing donor would be easier as surrogacy seems like such a mine field.
There were times when looking at all the legal stuff I nearly pulled out. My DH said to me, lets just go for it and if it works we will deal with it then.

And it worked and here we are. I feel so so lucky. Actually it has been a lot easier than  thought so far but  will keep posting to see whether I feel that way by the time baby is legally mine and british.

South Africa has just introduced new surrogacy laws and so now before a doctor can do surrogacy in south africa, he needs a court order approving the surrogacy first. 

To get this court order one of the conditions is that one of the IPs must be domociled in South Africa. But within the law, there is a loophole in that if you had a south african surrogate you can go abroad and do surrogacy without the court order. Going the court order route the IPs are put on the birth cert and the other route you would need to adopt to extinguish the Surrogates parental rights. 

In south africa you have to be south african or a permanent resident in south africa to adopt or you can adopt through the hague convention. So if you were british and not South African then this would then need to be a full intercountry adoption.

So it probably wouldnt be an option if one of the partners werent south african.

I hope that helps and if you need any other info, just ask.

 lots of luck on your journey!!


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## ♥JJ1♥

Thanks so much, I ma dleighted all is well. 
It probably isn't an option for us as I am British and he is Irish!!

L x


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## nevergiveup1

JJ - lots of luck, hope you find a wonderful surrogate!!


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## nevergiveup1

Feeling very nervous, today I am off to South Africa! I am actually not following all the above as I am south african and I am habitually resident in south africa and have a business there and DH purchased a house there a 2 years ago for us., so I am going to stay there for a while. DH is going on birth cert with surro mom and I am planning on adopting the child in south africa to obtain parental rights and that could take 6 months . And on doing research, Britain will recognise the adoption as South Africa is a designated country and I am habitually resident in south africa.

Hopefully this will all go according to plan.     I am not sure when we will be returning as I want to spend time with my family, have done so much research on how to obtain parental rights that are recognised in both UK and South africa with me being british and south african. DH is Irish and british. 

So hopefully it will all go according to plan. I will post if there were any pitfalls in my plan as... you never know??

I cannot believe the time has arrived for me to go and await the arrival of my precious very long awaited and already so loved child  . And I have to add that I am truly lucky to have met the most wonderful lady who is now my surrogate. To date it has been a wonderful journey and I know in my heart that my surrogate will be a friend for life.

((There are computers and internet in South Africa,   so I will update with news!))


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## ♥JJ1♥

nevergiveup1 - wishing you a safe flight - how exciting that you are so close to meeting your baby.  Keep in touch with us !! Thinking of you

Good Luck

L x


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## ♀Craig♀

Fantastic 
I bet you are so excited! i know i would be.
Can't wait to hear how things are going
xx


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## nevergiveup1

Hello Craig and JJ  

Well baby is nearly here!! Surromom is in hospital now till baby comes.
Doc thinks that she is coming any moment and as she is breech, we need to do a c section.

We are a month early, but baby is big and between 3 and 4 kgs.

Spending lots of time at hospital with surromom. Doc is trying to keep baby in as long as possible but doesnt think we will make it to 2 more weeks without surromom going into labour.

So we are just waiting. Everything is ready, very excited!!


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## ♀Craig♀

Awww bless, poor surro having to have a c-section, but your baby will be here soon 
I cannot wait to hear baby is here and all is great!!!
Best of luck with the labour.
xxx


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## nevergiveup1

hello everyone,

Baby arrived on the 4th august at 36 weeks by c section all safe and sound and surro mom was wonderful!
She is 2 weeks tomorrow and we are so very excited and cannot belive how beautiful she is.


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## Jo

Congratulations, enjoy every minute 

Love Jo
x x x


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## nostalgicsam

YEY Congratulations   take lots of pics ! it flies by LOL
x


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## leo

Fantastic news so pleased for you and your Surrogate is a true angel xxx


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## ♀Craig♀

Congratulations 
Hope both you and baby and well.... post some pics soon 
xx


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## YURSKIY

Hi Nevergiveup!

Big congratulations on the new arrival. How are things going for you, especially on the legal side?

My husband and I have a surrogate in Ukraine, who is now 17 weeks pregnant with twins   !!
Like yourself, we have spent a long time researching all the legal requirements of returning to England with our babies. My husband is from Ukraine (although now a British citizen) and I am British. I have read with interest all your posts, as it is nice to hear about someone going through the same process as ourselves. We have been using Intersono in Lyviv, who we would highly recommend.

Hope you are enjoying every second with baby   
Yurskiy
xx


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## nevergiveup1

yurskiy, hello!! Congrats on the pregannacy.

You must be soo excited!

the legal side isnt going anywhere at the moment. but I am not that worried as we are currently living in South Africa and tbh I am not sure when we are looking at coming back to UK in the near future. Here in SA hubby is the legal father currently and I will either adopt or we will get a court order. Not sure about what to do regarding the UK. The thing is that we can both work remotely and live here and we bought a house here a few years ago and we are working on that. Thinking of living in it now and maybe turning it into a b and b.

Also we are wanting to try again with the same surro in February and with all the legal minefield out there maybe it is better if I am domociled and living here for a while. I am applying for an Irish passport for baby.

So you are really in the same situation with hubby being Ukrainian and British. You see I think when you are a dual citizen and you are in the country that you are a dual citizen then maybe things are different. Ahhh I am not sure.

But with Ukraine I am sure everything will be fine to just follow the uk law and then apply for a parental order.

It is soo good to chat to people who are doing this process as there are so few people doing surrogacy and even less going abroad. I am actually loving being in SA with my parents and am in no rush to get back to UK. Eventually we may have to adopt in the UK, when we decide to go back but I will keep everyone informed as we go along.

Do you know the sex's yet? I am loving every minute with baby. I have to pinch myself every now and again to belive at long last our baby is here!!! And it goes so quick, she is already 5 weeks and growing out of all her new born clothes.
There were times when I never thought Id have another baby and we are both over the moon. You will be there so soon. It is such a special journey.

Looking forward to hearing how it is going!!!


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## kare72

Hi Nevergiveup we are an Irish couple going through surrogacy in India.  We are just at beginning stages but was just wondering how did you make out getting irish passport?  We are hoping to have a single surrogate so that husband will be the legal father and apply for Irish citizenship through dh.  Hoping this will work easier for us even though in India they put my and dh names on birth cert.  Will have to wait and see for now.  Thanks for all your information and research it has really shined a light on things for us as Irish law is pretty much in the steps of English law.  Thanks again and congratulations on your baby.


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## nevergiveup1

Hi Kare,

DH is Irish but was born in Ldn to irish born parents. So I have to register baby on the Foreign birth register first and in SA this takes 3-6 months!! Then apply for a passport.

BUT... if you or hubby are irish born, I think it will be quick to just apply for a passport.

DH is on the birth cert here and I think they accept this as they have asked for a letter from the mom... as in the surrogate to give permission for baby to be registered. Our surrogate is married and they havent said that this makes any difference yet.

We are not going through adoption anymore and are going to court to get birth cert changed to mine and DHs name and this takes a few weeks, so may just wait for that before sending the Irish one back.

I found it hard getting advise on international surrogacy and Ireland, what did you find??

Are you based in Uk or Ireland??

Look forward to hearing from you....


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## kare72

I am based in Ireland and it is impossible to find information on surrogacy here.  It is very taboo subject as it very grey area - even with solicitors there is just so much they are unsure of.  Very frustrating - hope your little angel is doing well


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## nevergiveup1

Hi Kare,

I also found it hard to find out about Irish surrogacy. But do not think that they have the same laws as england. They just have a law, if the birth cert has an irish parent then baby will be irish. I couldnt find anything else on surrogacy. I think you will have an easier time than someone based in England.

Especially as India put your name on the birth cert.
Hope this goes well. Let me know how the treatment goes! When you starting?
I am going to the high court in a few weeks. We have had delays here as the law changed here when surrogate was already pregnant and this has put a spoke in the works. But we are just hoping to stay here for a while and try for the next one too and just maybe we will get lucky a second time. But if not I wont chase the dream for too long as we have a beautiful baby now and I am so thankful for this.

Baby is wonderful!

When are you going to india??    

You know, when looking into the paperwork for surrogacy and the legalities, it is sooo daunting... but it has been sooo worth it and we are just taking one day at a time and trying to get threw the legal side of it.

I nearly called it off before we started after seeing a lawyer once... I called DH and said... I think we should just cancel the cycle, it is too difficult with all the unknown legal stuff and DH said... lets just go for it and if she falls pregnant then we just deal with it then... and here we are!!!

It has been much easier than I thought!!

Lots of      for you!!!


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## nevergiveup1

Kiera, how did your paperwork go and are you now back in the Uk with baby??


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## nevergiveup1

Yurskey, how are things going??


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## lily17

Hello ladies


I am considering going abroad for surrogacy, am I right in assuming if my husband is named on the birth certificate of any surro baby that we can apply for a UK passport and have no issues about entry to the UK? ( my hubby is Uk citizen and holds Uk passport) I am not fussed about being on a parental order as long as my husband is named on the birth cert. Is this ok? as he would be genetic parent?


Lily X


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## nevergiveup1

Lily,

Only if the surrogate is unmarried. If the surrogate is married then uk considers her husband as the father.

It is better to follow all UK laws and then get a parental order. It is not difficult, if you follow all the laws. If you go to the top I have given links to the laws and to the visa issues.

good luck!!


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## nevergiveup1

specialmum    that is sooo exciting!!

As your surro is single, it is very straight forward. I am not sure about the timeline. In SA a British passport takes 6 weeks. 

All advise suggests you call the embassy ahead of time to make arrangements, so they should be able to help you with timelines.

PLEASE check how long it takes to get the BIRTH cert as this can slow the process down. It must be a long birth cert, unabridged with parents names on it. In SA it can take 3 months to get a long form birth cert. I did a lot of homework and found a place who did hand written long form birth certs within a few days. But you need to be sure of this to work out your timeline.

Also I just did my application for a british passport for baby and it asked if we had any urgent travel requirements as they could try to accomodate but they advised not to make any urgent travel plans.

try phoning the embassy, they are always very helpful with surrogacy and your case is very straight forward with surro being unmarried.

How far along is the pregnancy, bet you cannot wait!!!


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## nevergiveup1

specialmum

Something I never really considered prior to this process is:-

This is one of the criterea for you to qualify for a parental order...

3. The surrogate (and her husband) need to give up parental rights in their country, so this would be in a court by a court order or adoption, this has to be once the child is older than 6 weeks.

You need to find out how someone can give up parental responsibility in Canada. In SA it was only by adoption and this is a long process!!It has to be done after the children are 6 weeks old. I thought a letter would do and my lawyer in SA said no! The only way to give up parental responsibility is in a court. I am not sure if this is the case with your DH being on the birth cert but still you need surro to give up parental responsibility in order for you to be able to get a parental order on this side. Worth looking into.

CAN ANYONE ELSE let us know what they did on this point?? Some feedback would be appreciated from someone else who has been through the process??

Speacialmum, lots of luck on a wonderful journey!!


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## 6thtimehoping

Hi. I don't know if this helps, but we are having surrogacy in Georgia. My best friend just brought her baby back and she has given me all the steps from her solicitor and the Embassy there. She got a legal letter for the surrogate and the surrogate's husband to sign- one for each of them. Her surrogate was married, ours will not be as it's less complicated. If the surrogate is married her and her husbands name must be on the birth certificate. If the surrogate is unmarried, your husbands name will be on the birth certificate. The surrogate can only sign the form ( and her husband) once the baby is 6 weeks old. My friend stayed with the baby and her husband came back and forth. The embassy were great apparently, super helpful. We've been to Georgia and we met with the agency, clinic Doctors etc- they had 4 pregnant surrogates to UK couples all due about now. It's not too expensive to fly there either. You have to be legally married though, they are not allowed to accept de-facto couples.


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## nevergiveup1

6th time, is your surrogate pregnant?

That is so helpful regarding the letter from the lawyer to sign for the surrogate.


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## kiera19

hi Never give up,

so sorry for the delay in replying but i have just seen your post..........i am normally looking on the Ukraine site..

Yes we have been back in the UK since November 19th...... All together it took 8 weeks from birth.... 2 weeks to get birth certificate and all documents notarised, apposittled and translated.. then 6 weeks for my daughters British Passport.... It would of been 5 weeks but the passport office is in Germany and they only send passports out once a week by diplomatic post ..... very frustarting!

However had a wonderfull Christmas and i am so gratfull our dreams came true....

Hope you and the little one are well.xxxx


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## ♥JJ1♥

keira so pleased to hear that everything went well and you have your beautiful baby
L x


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## nevergiveup1

Hi Kiera,

Baby is now 7 months! She is beautiful and we are about to do a cycle with our same wonderful surrogate for a sibling.

Sooo very exciting!! 

Sooo wonderful to hear everything went well for you.


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## 6thtimehoping

Hi nevergiveup,

Sorry I didn't see your post- i thought I got emails for responses but maybe I set something wrong. We haven't gone ahead yet, we are still saving like mad and hope to be ready by the end of the year! meanwhile I'm watching everything posted and learning a lot  this is such a great site


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## nevergiveup1

I know what you mean, it is just soooo expensive!! We are busy trying for a sibling. Just had one round and it ended in a chemical.... so we are trying again soon.


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## yorkshirebunny

Hi everyone, its so lovely to hear the positive stories on this thread! We are considering of gestational surrogacy in India and are trying to chose a clinic to go with now. Although I am aware that it normally takes 3 months to get birth certificate/ home office approval/ british passport for the baby in India but my main concern is proving that there has not been a commercial element to the surrogacy for the parental order. How did that work for those who have gone through it? Obviously the indian surrogate gets less than a surrogate in the UK but higher than her potential loss of earnings there (she gets around £5-6 I think), do you think this will be a problem? Good luck for your next attempt nevergive up! xx


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## ♥JJ1♥

yorkshirebunny wishing you lots of luck I would seek legal advice- Natalie on FF will give you some 
Good Luck


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## lily17

Yorkshire bUnny

I cant see why you would complicate things and spend all that money in India/overseas, when it is perfectly possible to do surrogacy here in the UK, the cost varies but its from £7,000 -£15,000 per surrogate here in UK. And you are assurred of getting the baby a UK passport etc.?
If it just wasnt easy here, then obviously I can see the appeal of going abroad, I would be worried about handling of the legalities it is hard enough when the baby is born here let alone from overseas! When I started looking into it and researching I found surrogates were much more available than is publicised, especially if you find one yourself rather than go through an agency. Most surrogates seem to avoid the agencies and prefer to match with a couple themselves by getting to know them on an internet forum.

Good luck anyway!

Lily x


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## lily17

ooohps I just re-read my post and it sounds a bit harsh!!  , i didnt mean to say it quite in that way!  , what I meant to say was it is possible to save alot of hassle by doing surrogacy here in the UK, and perhaps everyone isnt aware it is possible here in the UK.
Lily X


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## yorkshirebunny

Hi Lily, I did start looking at the options here but it seemed like it would take an age (in terms of quarantining frozen embryos for 6 mths!) and also finding a surrogate. I was not so keen on attending meetings and being approached by a surrogate who has to chose between so many couples and I have heard negative stories about how long it takes through these agencies. Can I ask how you found one? X


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## lily17

Hi Yorkshire bunny

I went onto a few chat forums especially www.surrogacynetwork.co.uk and chatted to other IP's ( intended parents) and surrogates until I 'clicked' with someone, I actaully spoke to 3 surrogates and it was all very friendly and informal, my surrogate is travelling to Russia to have the embryos transferred in May.
It only took me 2-3 weeks to find some one, I was probably v lucky for it to happen that quickly but I would say it would only take a short while, dependant on how chatty you are with surrogates etc.
good luck

Lily x

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## SNUGGLEBUG

Lily - I just want to say that I think you're amazing and I admire your determination and wish you all the luck in the world. You have never given up and your strength is amazing" Your surrogate sounds great especially since she is prepared to go to Ava Peter in St Petersburg. Is Dr Olga ok with it all and do they know she is a surrogate?

I have just had 2 embies put onboard in Alicante (we are calling them Spanglish embies) hehe. They were day 5 blasts so I just have to wait and see. On the 27th I can test. I am so hoping for a bfp but if this time around is not sucessful I will have another go but with embryo donation next time as our fertilization rate wasn't all that  but they said that was I did have left was good quality so I am positive  . I also have been looking into surrogacy because I wanted to have a clear path of the direction I must take if everything else failed. I didn't want to have any negativity or unknown going on in my head so it all helped with my positivity. But thank you for pointing out this site (iI never came across this one). The other one that is very good is www.surrogatefinder.com. There are so many ladies on this site that are willing to be surrogates. I have so far saved 20 or more to my favourites and out of those around 7 have been surrogates before. It is amazing how many ladies are here in the UK and willing to be surrogates and just how easy it is if you look for it. I looked into doing it abroad. New Life and Sana another one but I heard bad feedback about them and the price was sky high compared to doing surrogacy here in UK and also soooooooooo much stress and problems getting the baby back into the UK. In some cases the parents had been in Ukraine for 4 months!!!!!

Anyway I just wanted to wish you luck and I hope god is looking over you and your surrogate. I know you have been through so much sadness and pain in your attempts and you deserve so much happiness and I would like to follow you on your journey so is there another thread you go on where I could follow you please?

Pam 

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## nevergiveup1

yorkshirebunny...One of my main reasons for going abroad was the six month wait and quarentine ect and I had a wonderful experience,.

The money paid to the surrogate has to be allocated to expenses but the clinics in india know the rules in the uk and they should fall in line with that. I think you should ask at the clinics what they have done in the past as they are very helpful with everything.


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## temmytango

Hi girls. Am so happy for those of u who have their babies. Am just starting and before signing. Am a non british going to india for host surrogacy cos its cheaper for me.  Can anyone tl me pls if I wl be able to bring my babies into uk.  Am so scared


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## nevergiveup1

temmy, what nationality are u? If you apply for a passport and your own country recognises the child as yours, then you can get a passport. If it is an eu passport, then this solves the immigration problem. But u need to check and see the time period that it takes to issue a passport from that country.

My daughter was entitled to irish nationality but as she had to apply on the foreign birth register first, it took 7 months to get her passport as ireland takes this long. But if you research it then they will tell u beforehand.

Otherwise provided that you follow all the UK rules for surrogacy, then you should call the british embassy beforehand and make arrangements. But the clinics in india are very familiar with the rules. I believe it takes about six months.

If the baby needs a visa, then maybe find out first from the home office.

Lots of luck!!!!! ask away with questions!!


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## Jomi

Hi all,

nevergiveup; we are thinking of heading down the road of gestational surrogacy in the Ukraine and we too are Irish, can you give me any tips or info on the irish route for passport application


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## nevergiveup1

If you are irish born, then it is very easy, just apply for a passport. I think in ukraine they give you a birth cert with your names on it, The passport only took about 8 weeks in south africa.

I never mentioned it was surrogacy, just sent in the forms answered all the questions . I had the surromom and my husband on the birth cert at that point, My husband is irish, but UK born, so baby had to be registered on the foreign births register first and this takes a while. But if u are irish born then your child is Irish from birth and doesnt need to register.

just call the embassy and see how long they take to issue 1st time irish passports and as usual u need to have people to sign the photos. Very simple !! Lots of luck!!


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## nevergiveup1

Oh and jomi, it is important when working out your timing to find out how long it takes in ukraine to issue an unabridged birth certificate as you need this first. you also will need your own original birth certs and marriage cert.


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## temmytango

thanks nevergiveup. i am a nigerian and so is my partner but we are NOT british nationas, we are on worl permit but we intend to make uk our home forever hopefully, it will not be difficult to get nigerian passport for the babor babies(fingers crossed) but from nigeria, how will i get them to live with us in uk pls


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## pharmchick

Hi Temmytango check ur pm


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## devonette

Hi Temmeytango,

We too are looking to go ahead with surrogacy in India sometime soon.  We have decided to contact a solicitor prior to the procedure to ensure we do not have any problems bring the baby/babies back to the UK.  We have consulted one that specializes in this area.  It maybe worth doing the same especially since you are not a UK citizen and do not want to encounter any problems.


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## temmytango

hi devonnette, can you give me the solicitors info and how good is he/her. any record winnings


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## ♥JJ1♥

Natalie the Ff lawyer is a fertility specialist she can give advice on Ff but I guess you probably want specific advice to you case
L x


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## pharmchick

There are strict criteria in terms of residency requirements which need to be fulfilled by the indended parents before one can sponsor a baby for entry. Also temmy you mentioned "partner", may I ask are you married? You need to be married in order to get a parental order and I think in order to get able to bring the baby back through the immigration route.


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## ♥JJ1♥

pharmchick said:


> There are strict criteria in terms of residency requirements which need to be fulfilled by the indended parents before one can sponsor a baby for entry. Also temmy you mentioned "partner", may I ask are you married? You need to be married in order to get a parental order and I think in order to get able to bring the baby back through the immigration route.


You don't have to be married to get a parental order as of 2010- you can be unmarried but partners in 'an enduring family relationship' it is single people that are still discriminated against in surrogacy law. I don't know anything about bringing a baby back into the uk if you're not British etc.


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## pharmchick

JJ, so they changed the laws? That's good to hear. I wonder if that part has been amended in the immigration laws too... Temmy, I visited an immigration lawyer specialising in surrogacy called Wesley & Gryke and are located near Westminster in London. They can give you personalised advice.


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## nevergiveup1

Temmy,

When living in the UK no matter what nationality you need to follow UK laws for surrogacy. I am a little unsure of what happens in your case as the baby needs a visa.

I will try and find the link from the home office and see if it has anything regarding visas.

Wish I could help. Are neither of you british citizens??


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## temmytango

thanks!


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## LouGhevaert

Hi

I wanted to add that the English High Court will usually treat any international surrogacy arrangement as commercial (if it was entered into on a professional basis) therefore requiring retrospective authorisation before a parental order will be granted.  

All of the legal criteria for a parental order must be met and the English court will scrutinse all the circumstances of the arrangement carefully to ensure there has been no clear abuse of public policy, that the intended parents have acted in good faith and complied with all the relevant legal requirements in their foreign destination country and from an immigration law perspective as well.  

Do ensure you tackle citizenship, nationality and immigration law issues carefully and get to grips properly with the parental order process and what this will mean for you as a family -that way you can help manage the legal side effectively and save costs.

LouGhevaert


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## pharmchick

What happens in cases where you adopt the child in the country where you did the surrogacy? Would you still have to do a parental order?


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## LouGhevaert

Hi

There is no international harmonisation of law where surrogacy is concerned and if you are British and resident in the UK you will be bound by our domestic law - which expects you to apply to court for a parental order to obtain legal parenthood for your surrogate child and extinguish the legal status of the surrogate parents. Surrogacy and adoption law are not a good mix and they raise difficult and untested legal issues.

LouGhevaert


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## pharmchick

Thanks for the info. I am not British but an EEA national residing in the UK. If I legally adopt a child in a designated country through their courts and the adoption is deemed legally valid, the UK law should see me as the legal parent I assume, even if the child was conceived through surrogacy. I shouldn't then have to re-adopt the child again in the UK. The problem in most cases is that there is no legal adoption  process of the child in most foreign surrogacy cases and the parents are just automatically put in the birth certificate as the legal parents which is why the UK law does not see the intended mother as a parent (and the intended father unless the SM is unmarried) unless there is a transfer of parental responsibility through a parental order in the UK.  But to disregard a full adoption order from a designated country just because the child was born through surrogacy is almost discrimination of the fact that the child was born through surrogacy....


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## nevergiveup1

Pharmchick, I took legal advise on this and have been told the same as you.

UK has an agreement with all designated countries and hague convention countries. Once you have adopted, UK will recognise the adoption and child as your child from birth. 

That was also the advise I have been given from more than one legal source.


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## pharmchick

nevergiveup, thanks for the info.


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## temmytango

hi pharchick. i sent you an email via the address sent and havent heared from you.takia


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## Ninna

Hello ladies,
I hope you do not mind me propping in.
I wanted to ask you for an advise about … not legal issues…
I am just in the beginning of the surrogacy process and I was somewhat astonished after our surromom said that she will need to use medications in the for of injections for 3 months… Is it usual?
Nina


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## nevergiveup1

Ninna, both you and surromom should be attending a doctor together and have a treatment plan. It depends on what treatment you are doing, but you should be able to talk to the doctor and check with him.

Are you doing straight or host surrogacy?

my surrogate was on injections to down regulate for a few weeks before we started, I think it was like 3 weeks, we did host surrogacy but you get the plan together from the doctor who is treating you and you can discuss everything regarding your treatment with the doctor.


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## Ninna

Hi nevergiveup! - thanks for the answer.
We are doing host option...
The plan before the insemination was clear, but I am concerned that it takes 3 months afterwards to get injections for surromom.
To be honest I am a bit worried.
I know we are not doctors here, but it would be interesting to know if it is a common practice or more an exception....


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## pharmchick

Temmy, check you PM. It seems your email account is having a problem. The mails I send you keep bouncing back to me saying that they can't be delivered. I will try re-sending you what I sent, or maybe you can PM me a different email address perhaps? Tc


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## nevergiveup1

Ninna, I think you are very confused!!

Host has to be done with IVF. Straight is when you do insemination.

What is you exact plan, do you have a doctor?

I have no idea what 3 months you are talking about after insemination that requires injections for the surromom.

Are you having your surromom inseminated in a clinic with your husbands sperm? What country is your surromom in?

Once the surromom is inseminated, it will take about 14 days till you can test and find out whether she is pregnant or not. During this time she may be on progesterone shots for the 14 days. If she is pregnant a doctor may tell her to stay on the shots. This would be up to the doctor. and is not always the case as some people use other forms of progesterone like pesseries.

Have you done IVF yourself?
What clinic are you using?

Hope you dont mind me asking all the questions but I think you may be a little confused or your surromom is??


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## Ninna

Hi Nevergiveup!
It is a difficult and confusing process  , also so many English terms for all 'steps' of the process. I wrote a loooong PM for you.. 
By the way - I really like your name!!!!  
Many thanks,
N


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