# Luck or Design?



## CLshark

I know you won't know the answer to my question, but I'm interested if you've ever come across a similar situation to me.

I'm 38 (39 in July) and have had 3 fresh ICSI cycles. I'm also a poor responder. I have a low antral follicle count (4 or 5 in June 200. My FSH was 6.6 last year and 6.5 in 2006. Waiting for results of recent FSH test.

The clinic mis-diagnosed me with polycystic ovaries and I was understimulated on 150iu Puregon for 8 days for my first cycle (2007). The dose was increased to 300iu for 3 days and I produced a single follicle (the clinic thought it was a cyst at first - my E2 levels were about 220!). We proceded to egg collection, the egg fertilised and I ended up with a BFP. Sadly we lost our precious son Ben, who was stillborn at 41 weeks. 

After coming so close to bringing our baby home I am desperate to be pregnant again. We've had 2 cycles since, both on daily injections of 300iu of Puregon and both long protocol:

Aug 08 - 3 follicles - 3 eggs - 3 embryos - 2 put back but BFN. The third embryo has been frozen.
Feb 09 - 1 follicle - 1 egg - 1 embryo - BFN (I had to sniff for a week longer as I hadn't had my bleed even though my hormone levels were down and I had down-regulated).

The consultant didn't think that there was much difference between the results of these 2 cycles. He also said that down-regulating for longer doesn't affect the response. He said that a 100% retrieval rate is virtually unheard of and that we had been 'lucky' to get to embryo transfer with all 3 of my cycles and I might not be so lucky next time.

I know that after embryo transfer it is mainly down to luck. But I desperately need some hope that my eggs (no matter how few I produce) are good. Giving up on IVF is *not * an option and we're certainly not ready to try donor eggs yet either.


----------



## CrystalW

CLshark said:


> I know you won't know the answer to my question, but I'm interested if you've ever come across a similar situation to me.
> 
> I'm 38 (39 in July) and have had 3 fresh ICSI cycles. I'm also a poor responder. I have a low antral follicle count (4 or 5 in June 200. My FSH was 6.6 last year and 6.5 in 2006. Waiting for results of recent FSH test.
> 
> The clinic mis-diagnosed me with polycystic ovaries and I was understimulated on 150iu Puregon for 8 days for my first cycle (2007). The dose was increased to 300iu for 3 days and I produced a single follicle (the clinic thought it was a cyst at first - my E2 levels were about 220!). We proceded to egg collection, the egg fertilised and I ended up with a BFP. Sadly we lost our precious son Ben, who was stillborn at 41 weeks.
> 
> After coming so close to bringing our baby home I am desperate to be pregnant again. We've had 2 cycles since, both on daily injections of 300iu of Puregon and both long protocol:
> 
> Aug 08 - 3 follicles - 3 eggs - 3 embryos - 2 put back but BFN. The third embryo has been frozen.
> Feb 09 - 1 follicle - 1 egg - 1 embryo - BFN (I had to sniff for a week longer as I hadn't had my bleed even though my hormone levels were down and I had down-regulated).
> 
> The consultant didn't think that there was much difference between the results of these 2 cycles. He also said that down-regulating for longer doesn't affect the response. He said that a 100% retrieval rate is virtually unheard of and that we had been 'lucky' to get to embryo transfer with all 3 of my cycles and I might not be so lucky next time.
> 
> I know that after embryo transfer it is mainly down to luck. But I desperately need some hope that my eggs (no matter how few I produce) are good. Giving up on IVF is *not * an option and we're certainly not ready to try donor eggs yet either.


Hello,

I actually know someone in a very very similar situation to yourself - i remember her because it was such a sad outcome and she was such a lovely lady and she did go on to have a live birth but she did have a quite a few cycles. But i cant discuss it as it is her personal information.

The problem is that as maternal age increases we know there are fewer good eggs and if you are a poor responder then there is less of a chance that a good quality egg will come along in that cycle. It just means the chances are low but not impossible.

You may want to investigate natural IVF - where the egg is retrieved in a natural cycle without the drugs. If you are a poor responder and only get one egg anyway then there is some evidence that you may get a better quality egg without the stimulation. As your Consultant says, with small numbers of follicles and eggs there are risks that you wont get to ET but as long as you are aware of this then there is no reason to not continue if you wish to. These are the same risks in Natural IVF. This is just a suggestion that you may want to think about, it does sound as if you have a good Consultant and team where you are.

Best wishes, let me know how you get on.


----------



## CLshark

Crystal,

Thanks so much for your quick response.

Funnily enough, I was looking into natural IVF/ICSI the other day. This may well be an option for us but we'll have to move clinics as ours doesn't do natural IVF. 

You have given me some hope that I may yet get that so yearned for live birth.


----------



## CrystalW

CLshark said:


> Crystal,
> 
> Thanks so much for your quick response.
> 
> Funnily enough, I was looking into natural IVF/ICSI the other day. This may well be an option for us but we'll have to move clinics as ours doesn't do natural IVF.
> 
> You have given me some hope that I may yet get that so yearned for live birth.


Hello,

Glad i could help. Sometimes a change of clinic - or at least a second opinion can be useful too - some clinics have Consultants that have a special interest in poor responders.

Let me know how you get on - i really hope you are one of the good stories i can tell others about one day.


----------



## CLshark

Just thought I'd let you know how my recent IVF/ICSI cycle went. (I've not updated my signature, yet).

My FSH was 5.9 the month before this cycle - I was relieved to see that it had not shot up. This time I had 3 follicles on my left ovary, none on the right.

My 100% collection rate came to an abrupt end with the lead follicle streaking ahead of the other two after 11 days of stims.    Follicle sizes were 21mm, 15mm and 12mm so I knew that 3 eggs would be unlikely this time. I felt that the clinic made the right decision to go ahead with EC as my endometrium was 11mm. Got 2 eggs at EC but 2nd egg was not fully mature. Mature egg fertilised with ICSI and had 2 day transfer with one good four celled embryo. Done HPT today and I have a faint positive  . Naturally I'm worried about having a chemical pregnancy but so far so good and the line is definitely pink, just not as dark as the control line. I'm going to test again tomorrow before advising the clinic of the result (no one will be there today, anyway).

Whatever happens with this pregnancy, at least I know I can become pregnant again with one embryo.


----------

