# Multiple failures and losing hope



## Babybug2014 (Apr 1, 2014)

This is the first time I've written on a fertility forum though I have gotten comfort from other people's postings in the past. I've just had my 3rd BFN from a cycle that is apparently good and I have no explanation why it won't work. The doctors just keep telling me that it should work and it is just bad luck. I'm finding that very hard to believe that I can 3 rounds of bad luck, transferring 5 good quality embies in total with no BFP in sight. 

This is my story.....
My dh and I started ttc 3 years ago - 2011 (30 yrs old at the time). After a year we started to get tested. All my test were good, DH SA was zero. Long story short, it was discovered that he was a carrier of cf and we retrieved 5 straws using ssr in July 2013. All looked positive again that we could conceive using ICSI.

Nov 2013 1st ICSI - 10 eggs collected 9 mature 4 fertilised, 2 X 8 cell good quality embies transferred. Bfn. doc said it was bad luck however DNA fragmentation may have been the issue. recommended Imsi next time.

Apr 2014 2nd ICSI using imsi - 10 eggs collected 10 mature 7 fertilised 1 x 5d excellent blast transferred, 2 frozen. Bfn. Doc said excellent response but bad luck however recommended scratch and glue for the time, she was sure it would work.

Sept 2014 3rd ICSI using IMSI - 11 eggs collected, 10 mature 7 fertilised, 2 x early blasts transferred none to freeze. Scratch and glue used - bfn. WTF meeting on 23 October.

Perfect lining every time, I eat right, I'm youngish, exercise, do acupuncture, reflexology, good bmw, don't smoke, minimum amount alcohol, stopped drinking caffeine but it is not working........is there any hope? 

Does anyone have any similar experience of multiple bfn with a resulting success?


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## Blondie71 (Oct 26, 2011)

So sorry for all these bfn's totally sucks when you have no answers... 

I didn't waste time after a bfn that was like yours unexplained, as I was going private I went for a hysteroscopy  and had implantation cuts at the same time, I also had some basic immune testing that showed fine but I did have some high NK cell markers that signalled inflammation somewhere in my body that could be an issue (it was my tubes causing that inflammation and I had both tubes removed and happily got pg on first FET). 

So those investigations I would definately do before anymore wasted cycles, I went to Serum clinic in Athens Greece for all of it, I only had to stay there 2 days to do both the hysteroscopy and immunes so very quick trip, it was 2000 euro total also incl flight/hotel so def alot cheaper than UK as you won't get these things on NHS I doubt 

All the best anyway and if you need more info on this stuff look on Greek clinic boards loads there on Serum clinic , hysto, immunes etc x


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## angelica_wales (Oct 10, 2012)

Hi babybug, so sorry you find yourself here xx

I feel your frustration after getting a BFN on Monday after my 7th tx cycle (history below)

You're right you do have everything on your side - you are young and it sounds like you're doing everything right - it's just not fair!

As you've been through this before I'm sure you've thought about your follow up but to help, Agate has put together a guide which may help you with some more questions which you can find here :

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=283000.0

You are definitely not alone and there are plenty of stories of ladies who've had success after repeated failure - I'm sure you'll find them here

Good luck and remember we're here for you

Angelica
xx


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## Bumble Bus (Apr 23, 2013)

Babybug,

I have so much similar experience to you I had to write..... My DH also has azoospermia although it is non-obstructive and TESE was unsuccessful so we have used donor sperm throughout (which I guess is the main diff as the sperm quality was then not an issue for us).

My first 3 cycles were very similar to yours -

1. IVF, 10 eggs, 5 mature, 3 fertilised, 3dt of 2 x grade 2 embryos (7 and 9 cells), (nothing frozen), BFN
2. ICSI, 8 eggs, 5 mature, 5 fertilised, 5dt of 1 x 4BB blast, (1 x 3BC blast frozen day 6) BFN
3. ICSI, 9 eggs, 7 mature, 7 fertilised, 5dt of 2 x blasts (3BC and 4BC), (1 x 4BC blast frozen day 6) BFN

As you can see my embryo quality was never top so clinic always said egg quality was likely an issue but I also had nice lining and all the good things you are doing too (except reflexology). I felt that after 5 failed embryos I needed to look into immunes and I went to see Dr Gorgy. He identified quite a few issues that he has treated and I had a further FET cycle with our 2 frozen embryos and am now 10 weeks pregnant with twins. I cannot believe it is a coincidence that 5 embryos failed and then embryos 6 and 7 (which were the slowest blasts of the bunch) both implanted once my immune system was on the straight and narrow.

It was a lot of money to get the testing and I've had a lot of expensive treatment (ivig in particular, plus intralipids, steroids, clexane). If you want to read about my Gorgy initial consultation experience there is a thread and I wrote 2 posts on page 262 which cover it http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=277418.2610 . As the others mention there are lots of other ways you can do it if you think you want to look into immunes.

I wish you so much luck and please let me know if you have any Qs and I will help if I can. x


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## PBAL (Apr 18, 2013)

Hi 

I also have similar experience.  
My first cycle i transferred 2 4aa blasts which resulted in an early miscarraige. 
Then FET of 2 3bb embies then bfn
2nd fresh cycle and transferred 2x3aa blasts.  Have just got bfn 

I dont understand where to go next and what to do. 

Pbal


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## Babybug2014 (Apr 1, 2014)

Thank you so much for your replies and sharing you're experiences.

I will definitely ask about immune testing during my meeting in 2 weeks though I am at a loss for what to do next.

Doctors seem to be convinced that it is still a sperm issue. The IMSI definitely helped as we are now getting to blastocyst however they seem to think the embies cant survive beyond day 5 and implant. The only thing we can do for this issue is to keep trying and hoping the next embies will survive? Eventually we will need to go to donor sperm if it doesn't work. We will be trying frozen 5d blastocyst next.

Or we go down the route of immune testing which is expensive and  it could still just be poor quality sperm.

I will discuss with doctor however is there anyone who has experience with poor quality sperm affecting outcome on multiple ivf even with good looking embies?

P.s had hsg done, tubes and uterus are all clear


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## Josie1 (Sep 30, 2013)

Hey I feel in the same boat, I'm about to start my 4th attempt, they have said every time the embryos are great quality and graded them high. I keep being told its "nature" they said to me it's like putting ur money on red or black in a casino, some people get lucky 1st time, some people loose several times in a row before getting lucky x


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## Babybug2014 (Apr 1, 2014)

My blood boils when they say it's down to luck. 

Wishing you luck for your 4 th attempt. Are you doing anything different? Have they suggested IMSI as this did have a big difference for us (even though it still didn't work).


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## Josie1 (Sep 30, 2013)

They gave me the scratch this time but that's all that's different. 

What is IMSI? 

I really hope it works this time, it's taking its toll on me emotionally now x


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## simone546 (Dec 25, 2011)

Hiya, 

Have you had level 1 immune done? You can get those on the nhs.


Hope it works for you xxx


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## Babybug2014 (Apr 1, 2014)

Don't know what IMSI stands for but it is similar to ICSI but they use a much more powerful microscope in order to select the best sperm and helping prevent DNA fragmentation. It helped us go from a 40% fertilisation to a 70% and also achieve blastocysts.


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## Josie1 (Sep 30, 2013)

Thanks, I've never heard of it. Sounds good x


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## cosmopolitan4112008 (Oct 18, 2013)

I'm definitely with Blondie!  Get tested. If you go from one cycle to another,  you will waste your time. Money and most importantly, your health. If the problem was the sperm, your embryos wouldn't reach a blast stage.


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## Josie1 (Sep 30, 2013)

Is that right Cosmo, didn't know that. Time will tell if we get to blast this time x


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## susie76 (Jan 19, 2011)

Hi Babybug,
I would agree with those who have mentioned immunes testing.  Yes it is expensive testing, but then you will either know that there is something to treat, or can rule it out.  And not so expensive when you put it in context of a string of failed treatments.
Dr Gorgy and Serum have been mentioned which I keep hearing good things about, ARGC in London is the other one that takes it really seriously - again, not a cheap option and I am clearly biased (see my signature) but I think worth it.  Lister in London does immunes too but slightly 'light touch' in my opinion compared to the ARGC.  It will depend on the doctor you ask as some can really dismiss it as not relevant.  
My one cycle at the ARGC cost more than 3 failed ISCI/IMSI at the Lister but I would go straight there again (infact have my follow up next week to start thinking about another go).
Good luck xxx


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## susie76 (Jan 19, 2011)

Get your thyroid checked too, only at ARGC did they notice that my TSH was too high (hypothyroid) - still within nhs "normal" range, but needs to be at the low end of the range to conceive.  I went back to the GP and got put on thyroxine.  Could have even been just that that made the difference, rather than all the expensive icsi+immunes!!


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