# Lining - please help :)



## Catherine Lou (May 31, 2011)

Hi ladies

I haven't been on this board for a while - having had a BFP DFET in March only to miscarry at 6 weeks.

Anyway, upwards and onwards - I am doing my next cycle, trying to build my lining as I always have problems getting it beyond 7.

On day 12 last week my lining was 6.5 with a triple line.  My consultant advised me to go for it i.e. start the progesterone but we then decided to carry on with medication to see if we could get it any thicker.  Low and behold, when I went today, the lining was no thicker and the triple line had gone and it wasn't as crisp and clear as it had been a week ago.  To say that I am disappointed is an understatement.  I had this vision of having a lining of 8 - yeh, dream on!

My protocol was 4 x 2mg Estrogen, 1 x 2mg Vaginally, John Bown viagra pessaries at night, and one estrogen patch.  I am also doing acupuncture, chinese herbs, john bowen herbs (cordyceps and reishi), femoral masasge, and red raspberry leaf tablets.

The last few days I have increased the patches to 2 every other day and also started using JB pessaries AM and PM.

I'm now stopping everything and started Norethisterone today for 5 days to start it all again when AF arrives.

If there is any advice anyone could give it would be much appreciated.  Maybe I need to tweak my medication a bit.

Strangely enough, when I had my last cycle (BFP but miscarried), when I started Progesterone my lining was 7 - but through continuing the viargra pessaries AM and PM and the Estrogen (both orally and vaginally) my lining was 9 at the time of transfer.  Now I feel that I should have gone for it last week and I would be on my way to Kiev in a few days for the transfer

Sorry if I've gone on a bit ))  

Agate - I hope you are well - if you could give me any advice it would be much appreciated.

Best wishes and love to all.

xxxxxx


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## theodora (Dec 14, 2010)

It's normal not to have triple striped at transfer time, you want it that way BEFORE starting progesterone. When you start P4 supplementation, the lining may continue to grow but mostly it just "plumps" up & gets the right ingredients & goes thru some changes to be ready for implantation.

Personally, I think a lining of 6.5 & triple striped on day 12 is great -- all you need is 6mm for a transfer!! For me usually I wouldn't get that thick until way later. My recent DFET we did Neupogen washes & that made the lining go way thick for me (9.5 a few days after the 1st wash).


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## BraveGirl (Mar 30, 2010)

My clinic gave me viagra for womb lining last cycle and it worked!


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## mross (Jul 10, 2012)

Hi hun,

Im In a similar boat to you just now. My last FET after 3 weeks on 6mg daily estradial I got to under 5mm, then I went on to 8mg a day and after a week got to just under 7mm with triple layer, I got BFP only to have chemical pregnancy all before official test date.  This cycle ive been on 8mg a day for 12 days and today went for scan to be told 6mm and triple layer however Ive been sent away to keep building for the week.  They have said to me that I had a really small uterus and it could all be relative, small uterus - thinner lining.  Im just scared it will diminish after the week...ahhh!  Nightmare.  So have they full on cancelled this round for you?? xx


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## Catherine Lou (May 31, 2011)

Hi ladies

Sorry for the delay in posting back. My partner was rushed into hospital and was serious ill but slowly recovering - its been traumatic to say the least.

Anyway, I started a new cycle last week as the other one was abandoned.  Scanned on day 7 and lining was 5.6 with triple line.  I'm now scanning tomorrow day 10 and keeping my fingers crossed.  My dilemma is if I have a triple line and its around 7 whether to go for it (start progesterone etc). I did this last time and at the time of transfer my lining was nearly 9!  I too am worried that if I leave it a few more days i.e. till the Monday - it might all dimish.

Mross - what happened at your next scan - seems we are in the same boat.

Theodora - lets hope i get a good result tomorrow.  Would you mind telling me a bit about the  Neupogen washes and which stage I would need this done?

Thanks for all your help ladies - let's hope there is plenty of baby dust coming our way.

xxxxx


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## theodora (Dec 14, 2010)

Usually the washes would be done after being on estrogen for a while & the lining not getting thicker. In my case, I did on my 8th day of meds. Dr Braverman in New York says to do another wash 2 days later, Dr Gorgy in London does 4 days later. To give an idea, my estradiol levels on the day of that 1st wash were high, so estrogen WAS getting into my body, yet the lining was just 4.8; a few days after the wash, same E2 levels & lining at 9.8 & starting to be triple-striped already!

Each doc measures lining differently, but still it was very dramatic. When I finally went for my transfer, the doc said my lining was only 8, but it was still very good & I am a Neupogen convert.

I did continue the Neupogen as shots, starting 4 days after the 2nd wash, & I will continue do that to 12 weeks.

The downside to the treatment is that it is off-label & hard to get. Here in France it can only be used for cancer patients (@ much higher doses) & thus only prescribed in a hospital.

Catherine Lou, lining of 9mm is great!


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## Catherine Lou (May 31, 2011)

Theodora

Thank you so much for your response.  I had a scan today and my lining was only 6.07 on day 10 - on day 7 it was 5.6 - so it hasn't grown very much.  However my local clinic said that the lining looks good and there is a triple line.

They think I should go for it this cycle as it may not get any thicker (my last treament resulted in a BFP however I miscarried at 7 weeks) - lining was 6.7-7 prior to P4 however it was 8-9 at the time of transfer.  I will be travelling abroad for the DFET so obviously there is a lot of planning and I am in a quandary as to what to do.

My consultant thinks that if I take HCG trigger shots this will help the lining but I'm wonder whether I can get some washes in now before I go or whether I should abandon this cycle and do the washes next month and see if I can get a thicker lining.  

If you could let me have your views it would be very much appreciated and if anyone else reading this has any views, I'd be so grateful - time being of the essence.

Best wishes.

Catherine


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## theodora (Dec 14, 2010)

I think you should go for it -- the lining sounds just fine!


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## Catherine Lou (May 31, 2011)

Theodora

Thanks for your response - it's all very nail biting :-(!!  Do you think it's worth getting some washes in first or proceed as planned with my clinic?

xxxxx


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## theodora (Dec 14, 2010)

If it were possible to do a Neupogen wash (300 mg, the entire vial) now & start the progesterone, that'd be great. But you don't want it done too close to the transfer, should be at least 3-4 days before as you don't want extra fluid in the uterus.... But don't beat yourself up if you can't!! Alternately you could also just do injections, starting now?? All depends if you have a doc who would prescribe this, there are not too many. I had to fly to London every few weeks to stock up, it was super expensive.


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## Catherine Lou (May 31, 2011)

Theodora - thanks for your response.

My doctor will prescribe it but trying to get it now in time for my trip to Kiev on Wednesday would be too late.

Do you know how much the shots cost and the specific measure and could you let me know how frequent they need to be taken?  Superdrug can do a box of 5 vials (for the washes) for £326.00 - and my clinic will undertake the procedure - but I think that I will only need to use two.

I think I should give this my best shot and if all fails I will do the neupogen next time round.  Agate says to get plenty of protein and water, warm belly and feet, so I'll keep to that and hope that my lining gets thicker by the time of transfer - as it did last time around. 

Very best wishes with your pregnancy - so glad that it all worked for you.

I will keep you in touch.

Best wishes


Catherine Lou xx


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## theodora (Dec 14, 2010)

You use a full vial of 300 for a wash.

The injections are daily SC (in the belly like heparins). The dosages I've heard are 1-1.5mcg/kg per day. I use a diabetes needle, so we adjusted the dosage to where the marks are, so it was 1.1 or 1.3 mcg/kg or some such. You could also just inject the whole 300 then do it every 3-4 days (this is what Dr Gorgy suggests, I preferred to do smaller daily doses).

You need to follow up with WBC tests to see how you react. Do a baseline before starting, then a test say 3 days after, then 3 days after that, then once per week. You want to WBCs to be within a decent range, like about 30. No worries unless it goes higher than 100!!! 

So if you buy a box of 5 vials, this should do the wash & injections up to a beta test, depending on when you start.

That price is good.


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## mross (Jul 10, 2012)

Hi CatherineLou,

Im so sorry to read about your partner, I hope they are well and starting to recover now.  Poor you  

Just a quick update, I stayed on the progynova 8mg for a further week and then when I went for the scan again it was still just at 6mm, but had the triple line.  My clinic weren't fussed at all and were really optimistic and we had two embys transferred on Wednesday.  They think its just all relative and im small (5'3 and 8.6 stone(ish) so they say my uterus is really small as well so they believe I will never get above 6mm but they don't see this as any problem, the nurses went to the consultant and all the other nureses and they were all in agreement that it was good to go ahead.  I know its ideal to be higher but some of us just cant get any thicker and that's just the way we are made.  Fingers crossed for you, but if things don't work with thickening it don't be too sad to transfer at 6mm....loads of good news stories at 6mm and below xxx


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