# leutal(sorry about the spelling) phase



## kelway (Dec 9, 2006)

hi everyone and happy christmas, just wondered, what is the shortest acceptable leutal phase? as i worry with my all over the place cycles ie if i ov'd late but still came on the usual time (ie roughly 25 day cycle these days) then i am guessing even if i had had a successful ie implantation, that my period would come and wash it away - am i barking up the wrong tree or do i have a point. funny really, it is christmas day and yet ttc still rules my head and i am sure it will tomorrow as well (and it is my 42nd birthday tomorrow). all the best.jox


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## Tonka (Aug 1, 2006)

jo

i have discussed this with my consultant as I was worried as I have a boderline LPD of 10 days post ovulation however this has increased  to 13 days on my first month of clomid. Have you started it yet?

My consultant said that they like it to be above 10/ 11 to 14 for a viable implantation. Apparently its all to do with the level of progesterone.

Hope this helps


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## kelway (Dec 9, 2006)

hi tonka, i started clomid this month/cycle, am currently cd17. have lower back ache and mild discomfort intermittently on either side ovary area, do you have this? been feeling pretty low but other than that fine really, fortunately i haven't had the other sysmptoms of ie sickness, dryness downstairs. been 'at it' alot but because my cycle varies from 24 to 30 odd days it is hard to tell when i am mid c so have to do it alot which is a real effort - when people say to me 'at least you have fun trying'....ARE YOU KIDDING, GO AWAY, I AM SICK OF DOING IT (sorry, just venting). anyway, now i have to sit and wait. i have been driving myself nuts with the have i ovd' and when did i ov if i did, and was the egg released and if so, was it big enough blah blah, now i am worrying about my luteal phase. i doubt i am pg, would be too perfect, at my age getting pg on it straight away, getting pg on it at all actually would be something. i will take it another few cycles. as for the cd21 blood test, confused really as my cd21 falls on sunday new years eve and thus cannot get it done then although i think i ov'd later than cd14 thus having a blood test on cd21 would be too soo so i will get it done on the tuesday (2/1). how are you feeling for this months try? what cd are you? jox


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## Tonka (Aug 1, 2006)

Hi sorry for late reply but we have just returned from a fantastic break in the countryside, just the 3 f us. Just what I needed to relax. Finding clomid ok but have been getting abit tearful and low which is not like me. I usually can tell when i have ov as i get jelly m day before then i get the pain down one side. However this month i am did not get the jelly (clomid may be drying me out!)but did get pain but my temp showed that i ov on day 14 which is very early for me. I am on day 21. When I have had my day 21 bloods in the past my cons told me to do it 5 days after ov instead to give more accurate result, so it use to be about day 25. 

Not feeling too positive this month and I know I will be really gutted next week if AF arrives.

I am having accupuncture again wed which makes me feel optimistic

Happy New year lets hopewe get our special delivery this year!


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## kelway (Dec 9, 2006)

hi tonka, good that you had a nice break. i am on cd22 and can tell that af is approaching which has really upset me, not that i thought i was but it is still so disappointing. my now heavily pg best friend is coming over next week and i am not looking forward to seeing her which is awful but i know if the shoe were on the other foot and i was pg and not her she would not be able to see me at all. it must be so much worse when af comes when spent all that money on ivf and gone through all that preteration. my friend has just had a failed ivf attempt. clomid is bad enough. you go through a long month of emotional nonsense not to mention putting that cr*p into your body, and for what. i moan to my dh that it seems that most women who take clomid, especially the older ones, just do not seem to get pg but he says (mr optimistic) that only desperate ones like me (cheers) bother to post in the first place point being, that there must be a wealth of women out there who DO get pg taking it.....i too have acupuncture tomorrow, another expense but i prey one that is worth it. i have been using my emotions against me, stressing about other health factors and worring if my cd21 blood which i am having tomorrow (late, i know but i do not think i ov'd, if at all, on cd14, possibly a few days later). i just think my eggs are too rubbish and that is why i did not get pg. i don't think i ever will again which kills me inside. whilst some women fly through pregnancy in their 40's, i just feel so old and washed up, it is also about age for me as i have always felt and looked so young (a good ten years younger than i am, i act it too.....). my uterus was apparently ripe and ready for actioin this month, it is like having a lovely dinner sevice with no food to serve on it. sorry to go on, emotions, now pmt, are taking  hold. all the best to you too with your try for the much wantedNo. 2 this year.
joxx


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Hi

Hope you don't mind me butting in here (despite not having had a "live" birth, with our hospital I am classed as having 2ndry infertility as I've conceived 4/5 times although I don't usually post on this board !!) ...anyway, Kelway, I know I've replied to a few of your posts on the clomid board 

Its a myth that a luteal phase is always 14 days ie you ovulate 14 days before AF arrives.  A luteal phase can be anywhere between 10 - 17/18 days and still be classed as normal.  I'm actually the opposite and have a long luteal phase...I ovulate on cd14/15 every month but my cycles are 30/31 days...I used to have regular 28 day cycles (with O on cd14) but after 2 early mc's (naturally conceived) alternate months went a bit erratic so I was prescribed clomid to regulate cycles and boost eg release more eggs...this is when my cycles regulated to 30/31 days but ovulation date remained same.

As for when to have progesterone tested - it peaks at 7dpo which is ideally when you should have tested.  Having tested on cd21 assumes ovulation on cd14...if you ovulate earlier or later then try to get progesterone tested accordingly.  If there is no egg fertilised (egg survives around 12-24 hours) then corpus luteum breaks down, progesterone drops, womb lining sheds ie AF will show up...if egg is fertilised then progesterone will remain higher as its this that prepares womb lining for possible implantation and sustains early pregnancy until placenta takes over.

If you ovulated later eg around cd16 and had progesterone tested cd23 then thats about the right time.

I assume you've had your FSH and LH tested, as well as thyroid etc ?  FSH and LH indicate your ovarian reserve and possibility of PCOS.  If so, what were your FSH levels ?  Have you had them tested several times with a few months in between ?  I appreciate its easier said than done but try not to be too disheartened....I'm sure I replied to you before with this but there are plenty of ladies who are older and manage to conceive...you're only 42 after all...I'm 38 in a couple of days so only few years behind you (thankfully my FSH levels are good - well they were last time tested !!)  I ovulate naturally but responded well to clomid and then to ivf....sadly still not pg despite having early mc's (naturally conceived and through fet).

Try not to give up hope - it can take a perfectly healthy (younger) couple up to  a year, sometimes up to 2 years, to conceive so stay positive 

As for exaggerated ovulation pains...I have always experienced terrible ovulation pains and when I was on clomid it just exacerbated them because my ovaries were working overtime as releasing more eggs (2 or 3 each cycle)...the clomid symptoms and side effects can vary month to month, person to person, so what you experience one month may be completely different to the next month.

Good luck
Natasha


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## kelway (Dec 9, 2006)

hi natasha, thanks for your response, you always give such knowledgeable long responses which are always much appreciated, you should be a gyni dr! best of luck to you with your next ivf try - apparently i missed dr winston's last prog the other day when there were a couple about to give up but had success on their last, a 9th try with twins!! my af has started to come so i have to try and work out if tomorrow will be cd 1 or cd2 depending on the flow (i guess cd1 is when the proper red comes, at the moment there is vague bitty brown, sorry for the tmi). feel very negative about taking another round of clomid as truly believe my eggs are past it so do not like taking this strong meds but will give it another pop. i am also battling with a mid life crisis which has hit becuase of my lack of being able to get pg and i turned 42 just a few days ago, it has made me feel so old - i look alot younger than my years and live life accordingly so it has really hit home that i am getting old, this has definately contributed to my being so low about the whole thing but i am sure this feeling will pass. all the best to you, 38 is definately nice and young still! jox


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## kelway (Dec 9, 2006)

ps natasha - my last fsh was 11.9 plus i have to ask my gyni if my having had post partum over active thyroid has made any difference (if long since rectified itself but may have damaged something?). jox


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Perhaps have your FSH checked again...and definitely discuss with your consultant about thyroid.

Acupuncture may help to bring your FSH levels down...I've not had experience of wheatgrass but I have read this can also lower your FSH levels...although I would be wary of taking any herbal remedies, including chinese meds, whilst on clomid.  I've tried all sorts of herbal remedies, including chinese meds, over the years, but never whilst taking any fertility drugs...however, I can highly recommend acupuncture which been having for around 18mths on/off.  I didn't have through first ivf but with both fets I had acupuncture sessions all way through and got a chem pg on 1st fet and possible chem pg on 2nd...not sure if was acupuncture or the extra meds I was on for raised NK cells...perhaps a combination...who knows...but it definitely helped destress - hope you enjoy your sessions.

Anyway, 42 is still young hun...so don't give up 

As for your AF...you should ignore any spotting and only count full flow red bleeding as AF...also if this starts after around 3pm then you count next day as cd1...eg...

Monday...spotting
Tuesday...full flow bleeding starts 3.30pm
Wednesday...cd1
Thursday...cd2 (start clomid if prescribed cd2-6)

Take care
Natasha


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## kelway (Dec 9, 2006)

thanks again natasha re when to take next clomid cd1, you are a wealth of information!! all the best. jox


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