# Help with Sleeping!



## MummyAuntieKatie

Hi ladies... Im sure this isn't a new topic but I could do with some advice...

Poor Bluebird isn't sleeping well (it's only been 2 nights I know but I thought I'd get some input now and see how we go).

He's been allowed to fall asleep on the sofa with his bottle of milk anytime he likes.  Usually it's between 7 and 8.  He also cries a lot in the night, usually because he looses his dummy, sometimes he goes back off well others he cries and cries and won't go back for ages (this was while he was in FC).

First night he wouldn't go to sleep at all, he finally dropped at 10pm, we carried him up, he woke up in the night and went back down fairly quickly but then was up and screaming by 5:45... We didn't get a lot of sleep.

Last night was worse, he fell asleep on the sofa at 7:35 (great) and we took him up just before 8.  He woke up briefly at 9:30 and we put him back down but then he was up again at 11:30 until 12:40 crying and upset, in the end we had to bring him down for milk and sush him off that way, took 2 goes to get him off again.  Then he woke 3 more times for varying lengths of time between about 3:50 and 5:30, when I first went in to him I could get him to shhhh and lie down but as soon as I tried to get out of the room he's start again, DH went in twice and after the second time he slept until 7:15.  He and I are up now and he's being an angel...    He's obviously still tired.  We'll have tantrums and whinging later because he's not had enough sleep (from all of us lol!).

I guess eventually what I want to get to is him going to bed and falling asleep there and sleeping all night but it seems a long way off.  Does anyone have any coping strategies?  FC says if you leave him to cry he will go on for ever but before the summer she did have him in a bit of a routine where he would go up fairly ok and sleep from 7-7 isn most nights.  That would be great but it just feels like we'll never see it happen.  I get really grumpy and tearful with lack of sleep and DH and I are already a bit snappy with each other.

Anyway, I know there are no magic cures for all this and he needs to learn the new house, new parents, new routines and to trust us etc. Think I just need some 'it's normal' or 'try this' comments from you who have gone before me!


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## keemjay

so hard..lack of sleep is a killer  
I would start by having a proper bedtime routine..bath, story, milk, bed..all upstairs..no going down again after bath. mock up a bit of  sofa/cushiony area in his room if you can..lay down on it reading stories etc and try and get him to settle with his bottle there..or on your lap..anyhow really as long as he's in his room. if you think you can push him to go in the cot then have a go but it sounds like he might not have any of it at present   if you can get him to fall asleep in his room for  few days/a week, then you can move it along a bit but i would just aim for that for now
waking in the night..firstly i used a dummy string for mine..some people dont like it, says its dangerous etc but it was clipped low down on them, no way they could strangle..they could only just reach it to their mouth lol. i also used to superglue the velcro as mine were clever and could get the dummies off the string   
he needs lots and lots of reaasurance, so just going in and sushing/patting is good...if it works. I woudnt take him out of them room, try and keep him in there..if nothing else, lay on the floor in his room rather than taking him out. dont think 'oh i'm getting him into bad habits'..it wont be forever.. you could offer a drink of water..its very hot at the moment and he could be thirsty on top of everything else. if milk works to settle him then do that if its what works..


did he nap in the day at FC? naps are soooo good for everyone so if you can then absolutely try and make him have one..sleep breeds sleep!


lastly, this is when you call in your support network for making dinners for you..when you are exhausted a good meal arriving is a godsend!


lots of  it will get better


kj x


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Thanks keemjay!  I really think you are right about trying to get the routine to happen upstairs instead of downstairs! It doesn't help that I've also got a cold/sore throat right now.

Yes, he will nap but only on the sofa (again) or in the car!  If I could get him to have a proper nap (a good hour and a half every day) I really think that would help but I can't see me getting him to do that in his bed.  So be it, that's not the end of the world. 

Thanks for your support, it really helps xx


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## Old Timer

Hi

KJ has given you really good advice and I can't think of anything else to add.  DD also had a dummy and cried everytime she lost it in the night so I bought the dummy attachment strap things and that solved that one    If only it could all be so simple   

Unfortunately it is going to take time, start a good routine and stick with it, LO will soon learn the order of things and that will help with trust and security.  Use your support network as KJ has said, get them doing your ironing, meals whatever helps.  Is DH at home still?  If he is, use this time to catch up on some sleep and let him look after LO.  Obviously this works both ways    Don't feel you have to be together as a family all the time, use the chance you have to rest because a tired Mummy isn't going to make for a happy LO.  

We were told to introduce my Mum early on with DD, she was 14 months, incase we had very little sleep at night.  This way I had someone who could come in and play with DD while I caught up on sleep.  I didn't need Mum for that at the time but after about 3 months DD's teeth started coming again and OMG did I know it.  Over 12 months of disturbed sleep with teeth    Thankfully she sleeps through must of the time now but this heat isn't helping either and lately she has been waking 2 or 3 times a night.

It does get better and you will master the sleeping, day and night.  I used to have to put my DS into PJs and his cotbed to get him to have a nap during the day but it worked and he continued having a nap right up to starting school.  Even now at 7 he will often ask during the holidays if he can go and have a nap!

Congratulations on placement, colds are pretty common at this stage   

OT x


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## GERTIE179

Hi,
I would echo KJ & OTs advice. Other things that work for us - grow bag is associated with sleep so good for day & night sleep routine. Blackout blind & curtains (I think you mentioned LO is like my little boy who needs it very dark).

We use a baby monitor that plays nursery lullabies & we found playing that low all night dud wonders. Also things like warm milk & chicken/turkey dinner is good for tryptophan which makes folk sleepy. 

My little one has never slept great & had good routine but it took us the first 3-4 weeks of him waking lots before we got the 11/12 hour sleeps (he did nap but even then it was only 40 mins initially and now its 1hr35 ish). Teething & periods if unsettling can come back but your routine helps them settle into it more. I also keep a comfy pillow under his bed for nights when he needs me there to go back to sleep (I shuffle out later). I've also resorted to LO in spare bed with me when sick or very unsettled and that's worked while we both get some hours - luckily he prefers his own bed so that's not a habit.
Good luck & feel free to pm me as I know only too well how rubbish a lack if sleep makes the early weeks - just coming out of another bad spell after LO bed unwell.
X


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## snapdragon

I agree with dropping the falling to sleep downstairs. Whether your routine is all upstairs is up to you. My lo has bath then milk downstairs and up for story. Just pick a routine and stick to it. I would be careful with giving drinks in the night as they can keep waking up wanting a drink and it can then be very difficult to get them to sleep through. My lo woke during the night for the first month or 2 but stopped when he was more settled. Nothing would settle my lo when he woke and I ended up sleeping with him in a single bed we have in his room. Lack of sleep is  killer, you have my sympathy.


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## Wyxie

Poor you, lack of sleep just makes everything so much harder!

I would also agree about set bedtimes and bedtime routine, although it's hard to do it and it needs to be softly with it being so early on I'm sure.  At bedtime, we don't play any more, and that's that.  I read stories, and I'll stay and sing to Wyxling as long as she's lying in bed and giving me at least a semblance of attempting to go to sleep, but TV, toys etc are all a no go after bedtime.  If she won't stop messing around while I'm in the room and try to go to sleep with me there, I'll leave her to it.  With Bladelet being so much younger and never having been left to go to sleep in his cot I'm not leaving him, but at bed time he doesn't get to wander round and play any more, and that isn't going down well, he has a good grizzle and a cry about it, but come bedtime he stays in my arms or hubby's until he goes to sleep.  I am a little concerned that he's never been left on his own to self-sooth to sleep, it's something kids do need to learn, but at the same time I'm very glad of the chance to give him bottle and have him go to sleep looking straight at me.  He looks into my eyes the whole time he's dropping off and having his bottle, which I then replace with dummy, and I sing to him, and it feels very positive from a bonding point of view.  I think he has the ability to self-sooth a little because he's getting himself back to sleep in the night most nights.  He doesn't even wake us but when I go in the next morning he's moved all his toys around, he's got a frog that shines stars onto the ceiling and he's normally turned that on, and you can tell he's had a really good play and rearranged everything.

If sleep is really disturbed in the night due to anxiousness, would one of you sleeping on a mattress on the floor for a little while help?  Maybe an inflatable mattress you could just keep blown up and pop down on the floor if he's having a disturbed night and won't settle if you go out the room.  That used to work well with Wyxling.  She'd mess around when I was in the room, but get very distressed if I left, so I'd go in and give her a cuddle and when she started mucking about I'd just give her "one last kiss" and lie down on the mattress and pretend to be asleep.  She'd laugh and stare and mess around a bit, and when she realised I wasn't playing that game she's lie down and go to sleep too.  It also made it easier to sooth her back to sleep before she'd properly woken up.  I haven't done it for a long time now, but it did help and it gave me more sleep than I would have got otherwise!

Wyxie xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Well last night we were at the end of the rope really, very tired and a little tearful but we decided to stick to what he knew and let him have his milk and quiet time on the sofa and he was asleep by 7:15 (we do hope to start to change this in a week or two once he's more settled).  I was in bed by 8:30 but couldn't sleep for worrying about him and generally processing the enormous changes in our lives. He woke up 4 times I think but we reckon one additional time he woke up but managed to find his dummy so he went back off himself (thank goodness for the dummy clip!).  Twice is was a fairly quick shushing and he went back to sleep but at 4am he was having none of it.  However, in my mind it was better because he wasn't distressed, he just didn't want to sleep, much better than all the crying!  DH brought him into our bed and he dozed off in between us then DH carried him back to his bed.  So, he was in bed for 12 hours (kinda) and woke every 3 hours (an improvement) but was only really hard work once and even then he wasn't kicking off so I feel that means he trusts us more to comfort him?

I'm hoping that he's had enough sleep to be in a better mood today, same for the rest of us!  That will probably make us all a but nicer!! 

Luckily lovely friends, the FC and SW have all told us this is perfectly normal and it will get better!!


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## Poppets Mammy

Auntiekatie (Mammykatie  )   To you and DH

This is so fresh in my mind, have a look at the sleep thread I started a few months back, we went through every sleep related issue going and they could be some tips there for you.

Our LO was also allowed to fall asleep on sofa when ever she fancied and had no bedtime routine at all - as do so many LO's apparently as many people seem to have this issue.

In summary what worked for us was to set a routine and stick to it, after a hard day and with lack of sleep mixed in its so hard to not give in at times but I would Deff stop the falling asleep on the sofa straight away, it will only be harder to do later on. Do Tea, Bath, story, milk etc or what ever you want your routine to be, but decide and stick to it. Take LO to bed and keep things calm. Poppet tried every trick in the book to get back into living space of house and we just had to be calmly firm and say no. By god she used to kick up a fuss but she soon realised that bedtime meant bedroom and eventually bed. We stayed with her holding hands once she was calm until she fell asleep. The nighttime wake ups were a nightmare, especially in the early days when she was distressed or sometimes calm but wide awake where her mind was ticking over. If she couldn't settle I'd sleep on the floor next to her bed so she knew I was near by if she needed me, and hour or so later I'd wake up and she'd be asleep so I would sneak back. I was worried she'd get into a habit of it happening but she needed me less and less and eventually didn't need me in there at all. Then she started wanting drinks, we trained (for lack of a better word) her that she'd have one small bottle of water next to bed through night and she could get that whenever she needed it without needing us to come in, but once it was drank that was it gone and we wouldn't be getting another, she very quickly stopped waking for drinks at all. We then had problems with early waking and got a gro clock (total god send). 

We had a few rough weeks periodically during the first two months, different problems and different reasons but for the past two months she's slept through perfectly from 19:00/19:30-07:30 and has recently started falling asleep by herself as well   she calmly goes to bed and settles quickly and lets either of us leave to do "jobs" while she falls asleep (sometimes listens to lullabies). The possibility of this seemed like a distant dream only a couple months ago but we had a routine, stuck to it firmly, offered gentle reassurance when required and she just adapted and became more secure with time.

It so hard, I don't function well without sleep at all. Just remember that bluebird is most likely scared and feeling vulnerable, I had to keep reminding myself that a bedtime routine was a knew concept to her of course she's gonna rebel, and her waking in the night was for a reason (even if we didn't understand or identify it, there was an underlying reason) and she wasn't doing it just to spite me and ruin my sleep. I know that sounds ridiculous but I would get so frustrated with her at times I had to remind myself of those facts.

Be kind to yourself, it does get easier and easier. But my overall advise is be firm (not strict or insensitive, just be clear on what does and doesn't happen) it will pay off in the long run.

Xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Thanks Poppets Mammy, really helpful, that's what we are hearing from all corners, apart from SS!  Did you ever feel that you shouldn't change the routine so early on because Poppet was just learning to trust you or did you go for it right away?  DH is in two minds, thinks we should wait for a couple of weeks until Bluebird is a bit more settled, but my friend said what's the point in letting him re-learn a bad routine just to then make him learn a new one later?  I tend to agree with her.

I got it wrong last night, the waking up was more like every 2 hours but lovely hubby let me sleep through one and a bit!   

 We can get this cracked because all of us are grouchy without sleep and we all grate on each other which makes for a very unpleasant day! 

On the bright side, we went to a country park to day and 'bumped into' my friend and her husband with their 3 year old, good time was had and Bluebird slept for 2 hours when we got home, DH had a half hour power nap while I reclaimed the dining room from small boy clutter!  I also realised that we need to be us, we need room to be us, not to have every room over taken with child paraphernalia.  Trouble is he just has SO MUCH stuff! lol


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## MummyElf

AuntieKatie I just wanted to send hugs    

If you want a good night light / lullaby thingy I can recommend a Bella the Butterfly. It has several songs to choose from and star shapes cut into it which project stars on to the ceiling. If you YouTube Bella the Butterfly you will find it - there is a frog version for boys xx

Am also here if you need to PM - LO has been here - 10 days and I'm experiencing every emotion going  

*I'm also very big in routine and do the same things at the same time regardless. She knows that whilst I make her dinner she plays in her pen. She kicked up a stink on day one and screamed the house down but now she gets it and whilst starts to whinge, quickly self-soothes and plays instead. She knows at 4.30 it's pen time...and that's that. Cruel to be kind but I can't have her crawling around with hot ovens etc. I have also started putting on Baby Enstein at someone else's recommendation (wyxie perhaps). She doesn't like tv but this totally captivates her and gives me half an hour to make tea in peace


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Well, DH is upstairs with Bluebird reading him stories while he tries to run around the bedroom and convince his Daddy that he really needs to do all this downstairs!  DH is being everso patient!  I've had to try really hard to stay calm again today, I'm finding the 2 year old running round crying or throwing things really hard    makes me feel awful that I don't have more patience and understanding with him.    I never thought it would affect me in this way and I'm ashamed of myself.  Luckily DH is being wonderful, keeps giving me hugs and telling me he loves me and that he thinks I'm doing great, but in my head I don't feel I'm doing the best for Bluebird, it's not his fault, his whole life has been turned upside down (again).

I keep telling myself it will all get better in time and I will find more patience and love, deep down I know that is true but at the moment it just feels hard.   

I said to someone earlier that intellectually I know it's not his fault and he's just a baby but emotionally I feel like he's doing it on purpose and he hates me...    I guess it's just like someone has dumped a running, jumping, talking newborn baby on us with all the sleepless nights etc... We'll get there, I just need to make adjustments to my expectations.  

Thank you all for your understanding and patience with me!!!!  It really helps to be able to get it off my chest like this!


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## Poppets Mammy

We didn't question putting the routine in place, we did however questioned how we dealt with her rebellion against the routine and I think we were too lenient at times and too harsh depending on what exactly she was doing and what sort of day we had had and our own moods etc etc. but once you find a happy medium and you all start to get to know each other better and how to get a toddler to do what you want without them realising they are doing it, lots of reserve psychology and tricky at times, lol.

We were encouraged by social services to do what we did. You've got to be cruel to be kind sometimes, at the end of the day the three of you will be suffering with the lack of sleep and that's going to effect all your moods and interaction and in turn your bonding. If your all sleepy and grouchy with each that's not productive. Poppet was shattered from introductions, never had a good sleeping pattern to start with then didn't sleep well at all during intro's so by time she moved to us she was like a zombie. Kids need their sleep to just generally function, learn, grow. Bluebird needs rest, he needs his parents to know best and put routines, rules, boundaries etc in place for his own benefit. He won't understand that but will respect you for it in his own toddler way. Hope that doesn't sound harsh coz I don't mean it to at all, I'm sure your doing a wonderful job and I'm criticising at all.

The early days are soooo hard, I think I dominated these forums for weeks as you just want to do what's best for LO and you end up questioning everything and this forum is so full of wonderful advice and support it's a great source.

I totally agree with your friend, what is the point of him settling in your house to a routine you don't want to keep. Yes you need to be supportive and understanding of the upset and confusion LO is suffering from the move, but he will settle quicker with structure. Honestly sometimes they kick off so much you think 'is this right?' But each night they kick off less and less until they learn and accept how its going to be. There's such a fine balance between being lenient because of the circumstances and letting a toddler have their own way because your concerned about upsetting them further. Does that make sense?? I've been there, I'm sure we all have, it's so hard to judge at times. But as good as this forum is only you know your child and what's best for them. I'd take all the advice given, discuss with DH and decide what's best for your LO and your family. Also Use your instinct and try not to question it too much.

Try sleeping in the bedroom if he's awake for a while during nighttime wake ups, I used to just give a bit reassurance and sit quietly for 15 mins, if she was asleep then great, if not I pulled the spare quilt out and slept on the floor. It worked wonders, meant I was still getting sleep and she was obviously getting the reassurance and closeness she needed to relax and fall back to sleep. It really worked and helped us bond.

Feel free to PM me if you want, like I say we had every sleep issue possible, she went through the lot and we've all come out the other side smiling and not as tired  

What area you live in??

Xx


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## Poppets Mammy

You posted while I was writing.

We had exactly the same issue, tricks to get back into living room then just general acting herself in bedroom, not getting into bed etc etc etc. she wanted a reaction, once we realised that and ignored a lot of the behaviour and just calmly went about the routine she quickly clicked on that if she stayed in bed and listened to story she'd get more cuddles and attention. 

I was the same of you, wondering why I don't have more patience (I am the same today as PMT has hit and well I'm just no fun today, get annoyed with myself then get in more of a grump  ) there were times where I would start getting agitated by her messing around and would start reacting to her, DH would come in and calmly say 'I think I best take over' while I ran out the room as soon as he did then hated myself for not staying calmer. It's really really hard and it does get easier I promise   

Again PM if you want xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

We are in the South West of England.  Thanks so much for taking the time to write, it really does help and it gives me more strength to see through the hard times with a really good routine.  

I don't want to tempt fate but it's all gone quiet upstairs and I think Dh might be about to reappear to tell me Bluebird is asleep!!


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Some very sound words there katie stay strong it will all be fine.   as I have said in pm bubba was a nightmare for ages until I said enough is enough. She has been to playgroup today and I had to wake her up at 4 we didn't get in till 345 then again at 5 I gave up trying at 530 as she was dead to the world carried to bed and went in an hour later and she hadn't moved. We probably won't hear a thing till gone 7 so there really is hope.
Its very early confusing days and its very emotional on you all. Xx


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## Wyxie

AuntieKatie said:


> I said to someone earlier that intellectually I know it's not his fault and he's just a baby but emotionally I feel like he's doing it on purpose and he hates me...


I have said pretty much exactly that so many times about Wyxling. I think it's very, very hard to keep perspective about this, especially when tired. It feels incredibly personal when you're at home dealing with it all the time. It's something that has never entirely gone for me. It's such an easy thing to understand, but incredibly difficult to live it day in day out.

It sounds like you're doing well. Solving the sleep related problems will almost certainly make everything else much easier. Don't beat yourself up about the lack of patience. No matter how much you love him, you still need to build the parent-child relationship, from both sides, and you still need to get to know him. Patience and understanding will come with time, as the relationship grows and you both gain confidence in you as his Mummy.

Then some days he will still make you want to scream.

With regard to tantrums and throwing things, I have started having problems with this with Wyxling again, in fact she threw something very heavy at a window this morning when hubby was here on his own with them. I have had to go back to how I dealt with it when she was younger. As soon as I can see she's starting to bubble, I tend to clear an area, and make sure there's nothing heavy in her reach, so when she blows she will suddenly find herself with me in the middle of an empty bit of floor and nothing is in arms reach. She is terrible for trying to grab my stuff when she's having a difficult time so I've got quite used to gently moving things out of reach when I see her fingers twitching.

If he's very active have you tried taking him out and wearing him out? Most soft play centres will be quite quiet during the week during term time, or run his legs off at the park? If he's always running around and often boiling over into tantrums would he cooperate in turning it into a game? With Wyxling we do things together like sneak, then charge, then prowl, then stomp, then jump like a frog. We also do running, or bouncing, starting fast because she'll be quite wired up, and then get gradually slower, then faster again. Drumming is another good one to do it with, getting them to follow your lead and do it together, slow, fast, loud, quiet, one hand, two hands. We always bring it to an end before she gets bored and starts to do her own thing which is quite important, and finish it with something she'll want to do - we often drum on the block box and make different noises, and finish it with making the "tip them all over the floor" noise. Then I just quietly put them away again and try to distract her onto something a little more settled. It's really good for letting off steam, but also helps to teach kids regulation, and gets them into the habit of you being in control. I find I get really good results with this with Wyxling, especially when we're out walking, but sometimes just in the front room, as long as I put enough fun fast activities in with the slow paced ones.

I hope you manage to get a good night's sleep tonight. Don't be too hard on yourself, everything you're feeling is completely normal.


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## Poppets Mammy

Horray - lets hope it's the start of getting it sorted, I'm thinking of you as it sounds exactly like what we went through and it just takes me back. 

We live no where near each other   but I'm here for you via forum   keep us updated   

Xx


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## crazyspaniel

Keep going AuntieKatie, you'll get there xx
Sleep wise we're doing ok, LO was also allowed to fall asleep in the sofa with a bottle but we've managed to transfer this to a bottle in bed... I really hate giving the bottle to her as its so bad for her teeth but I have to just do it for a while then decide on a strategy to get rid of the horrid thing!! We were told she never slept during the day but I have been trying to introduce a daytime sleep as she gets so grumpy in the afternoon and has been known to fall asleep sitting up some afternoons.
The only slight problem is she will not cry/ call out when in bed so not sure what time she wakes... Guess this is due to early experiences of not being responded to?!

Here's to a good nights sleep for you all


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## Duckling

Hi Katie, sending  . Be kind to yourself, this is your hardest time. I know it probably feels overwhelming and you're so tired that you don't know what is right  . If it's any consolation my little boy is 2 and is driving me bananas at the moment  - the hot weather definitely isn't helping! Two year olds are masters at trying your patience at the best of times! LOADS of exercise is my top tip - tricky I know in this weather, but an absolute must to stop my lo looking for mischief. It should really help with the crying and throwing things - my lo has so much pent up energy sometimes that he doesn't know what to do with himself.
In your own time you'll get your own routines and expectations. I have to say that I was really reluctant to change my lo's FC routines but looking back the daytime nap routine was crackers (long story) and I wished I had for all our benefit. So I think don't worry if you want to change his bedtime routine, if it helps keep him calm and sleep better in the long term. 
You are completely normal, it will come, put him somewhere safe (in front of a Thomas The Tank DVD?  ) and go to another room and breathe...
(Also I was really reluctant to use tv in the early days but there is a time for it.)
Again be kind to yourself, pm anytime, it does get better, you are normal and you'll feel the overwhelming love I now feel I promise xxxx sorry for the waffle


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## Old Timer

Terrible twos are called that for a reason!!!    Honestly, my DS came home at 27 months and it is so hard.  You have a walking, talking, frustrated child who has had their world turned upside down, one that can't make head nor tail of what has happened, whether it will happen again and can't verbalise their fears so communicate through behaviour.  Its not personal but its very hard not to take it personally.  The early months are so tiring, I know I felt I wasn't 'good enough' for my DS in the early days because he had so much anger and frustration in him.  

His FC didn't have a routine so I just put one in from the start.  The first days/weeks of it can be very tough but they will soon learn and that will help to make them feel secure and build trust that when Mummy does x, y will follow.

Be kind to yourself.

OT x


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## keemjay

just to add to the other support..Auntie katie..you will get through this, its just really really hard right now..in a week hopefully you will all feel a bit more settled and know each other more and everything will slowly start to slot into place and week by week you will get to a happier mummy place and family place..


and now with my matrons hat on..GO TO BED!!!


kj x


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## MummyAuntieKatie

We're both in tears to join in with an over tired 2 year old who just keeps screaming and won't go to sleep. It's just so frustrating, we don't know what's going on in his head so we don't know how to make it better and he's winding himself up.  He was just dozing off with me stroking his leg and the phone rang.    DH told them where to get off without even knowing who it was and I've unplugged the line but it's too late, he's agitated again. 

Going to have a chat to the SW later and see what she thinks.


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

Hi honey, 

We changed routine from day 1 and touch wood we've not had too many problems. 

Little man never went to bed before 10 at FC from here it's been 8 from day 1 and also he used to sleep in FC room he went straight into his own room. 

If I remember rightly your lo is older but I think new house new routine and he will soon settle. 

Hope this helps. 

Big hugs xxxxx


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

Somehow I missed you last post. 

I'm so sorry honey I really hope he settled very soon for you. 

Big hugs xxxx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

He's gone off, finally!  We're not trying nap time in bed for a while!!!  He doesn't trust us enough yet and we just wound him up.  God this is so much harder than I expected!!  We've decided to just chill out a bit, lower our expectations (that's really hard) and take every day as it comes.  We need to find our sense of humour again because it's seriously lacking atm!!  

I promised myself I would be better today, not let it get to me and keep a smile going, so finding myself sobbing into my laptop was a surprise!


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## monkeymooo

Aw katie, Massive hugs to you, be easy on yourself, it is such early days - one day at a time x

Day two for us with LO and he is really missing FC, is yours asking for his at all? Who knows what is going on in their little heads - I keep catching LO frowning but then he's all smiles and giggles the next moment x


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## MummyAuntieKatie

He's not mentioned her at all, he never looked to her for comfort towards the end of Intros either.  But we've noticed he doesn't call us by name, he doesn't exactly ask for anything, just points or expects things to happen. Can't really explain.  He's happy enough to be with me but if he's really upset only DH can calm him down, exactly the opposite to what we had expected!    I'm dreading DH gong back to work but part of me things it might be easier if he's not here but comes home to do bath and bed.    Who knows!

I would feel it was more normal if your LO did ask for FC but I think he just doesn't know how to and is acting out and getting upset and frustrated instead.  He's currently still asleep so have sent DH for a nap and am hoping he will stay down for another hour, he really needs it!

If we could crack night times, if he could sleep through, I think things would be a whole lot rosier!


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## crazyspaniel

AuntieK,
Don't be so hard on yourself, everything you're feeling is NORMAL!!!!!
Hope you get some sleep soon xx


----------



## Old Timer

Don't forget the weather!  It is so hot that even settled LOs can be unsettled, grumpy and too hot, tired etc to eat and sleep.  My DD doesn't know what to do with herself and is really clingy and whiney.

It will get easier.

 OT x


----------



## MummyAuntieKatie

I know everything you are saying makes perfect sense, but we are both finding it so hard not to get annoyed with the poor kid.  I guess we are all hot and sleep deprived and dealing with a whining, stroppy 2 year old during that, one that you only met 3 weeks ago, well it's just not coming naturally!  But we will get there, I'm hanging on to that!  I keep telling myself that he will get less whiny and also that I will feel more love for him, and that once he starts to talk more and can verbalise it will be easier to reason with him.  At the moment all he seems to do is point and whinge!


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Katie huge hugs. Will lo sleep in buggy bubba would sleep for 2 hours plus. When I was at my most tired we would go out and walk around in circles until she had gone to sleep and then home and feet up chill for me.
I also found just getting out for a walk helped calm the situation down for us all.

Thinks will get better promise xx


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## crazyspaniel

Remember the old saying 'fake it til you make it'   cx


----------



## MummyElf

More   for you Katie! Whiny kids....well I know all about that this week! I take serious tears seriously but if it's a grizzle I now give her this parental eyebrows raised 'young lady' look which seems to work! Along with 'don't whinge'. Generally occurs when I'm cooling her dinner down and in her view I'm just tooooo slow!  Irritation is totally normal - like you we met our daughter just 3 weeks ago and love takes time to grow so patience wears thin when you are bending over backwards and tired out of your skull and they still whinge and cry. My DH says we've basically become butlers with hand and foot service!! X


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## GERTIE179

Hugs AK!! Been there & still doing that but to a much lesser degree :-D

Things really do get better & what kept me going was this is the worst it could be. LO isn't even that whiny/grumpy when ill so really thus is just all the upheaval coming at once. It's always so tough esoe sully if you've had long tiring intros. 

Another thing that helped was breaking our day down into small blocks - even hourly if need be. By doing similar things at the same time every day will help LO know this is safe & he's not moving again & helps you as you count down to nap/bedtime etc & know u will have a free moment.

I like AAAs suggestion if driving or buggy gets him to nap then sane time every day as his body will very quickly want to sleep so you can then swap for your bedtime routine at nap. Even now we mostly nap at home in cot as its where LO sleeps best and we get the right length of sleep. 

Oh and another thing - whilst DH is off can one of you agree to use ear plugs etc & get a nights sleep or even half each. We've done that here and the diff of getting even 4-5hours straight sleep rather than 2.5 hr blocks makes patience go that bit longer. Divide & conquer approach.

Good job for all you ladies as no one gets how hard the early weeks are unless we've been through it but you are all strong survivors :-D Turn up some destinys child lol

X x x


----------



## Wyxie

AuntieKatie said:


> I know everything you are saying makes perfect sense, but we are both finding it so hard not to get annoyed with the poor kid. I guess we are all hot and sleep deprived and dealing with a whining, stroppy 2 year old during that, one that you only met 3 weeks ago, well it's just not coming naturally! But we will get there, I'm hanging on to that! I keep telling myself that he will get less whiny and also that I will feel more love for him, and that once he starts to talk more and can verbalise it will be easier to reason with him. At the moment all he seems to do is point and whinge!


Don't feel bad for feeling like that. Lack of sleep is hard and makes everything else feel much worse, and it's tough enough anyway!

When Wyxling has been particularly difficult, I try to think of her as being much younger, which emotionally she is. Bluebird will be functioning at much less than his 2 and a bit years at the moment, and it's really hard to see that when faced with a stroppy two year old. I try to think about how I would respond if it was a baby, and come as close as I can manage given her size, strength etc. Reasoning is something that doesn't tend to happen until much later on. I used to tell myself that Wyxling was bright, so soon I'd be able to reason with her, and it would all be fine. Sometimes I still do it, even though I know it simply doesn't work. I think that our kids need to learn that we are in control, and that it's OK to trust us to be in control. That takes time.

I absolutely agree about taking turns to sleep, also sleep when he does, whatever time of day that is! If you can get him off to sleep in the buggy, can you park the buggy in the hall and then go to bed?

Edited to add: As I'm sure you know, getting annoyed doesn't really help. I used to reward myself for staying calm, in the way that most people reward their kids, because reward/consequence did nothing with Wyxling for a long time. Can you try just not taking what he's doing that seriously? When Wyxling is being quite objectionable and doing lots of low level stuff, I tend to either ignore it and talk to her about other things, or just "oh don't be silly, we don't do that" then bang "can you help me do x" or "look at the cat rolling in the sun" or "can you help me water the garden?". Sometimes I've just sat and laughed at her when she's been outrageously naughty, and then told her afterwards once is funny, but don't do it again.

Also, as other said, heat isn't going to be helping. Have you got a paddling pool in the garden? Or could he help you water plants? Something that he'd want to do? What about a couple of water pistols for you to play in the garden with him?

I really hope you get some sleep tonight, I can't imagine how awful you're feeling in this heat with no sleep and everything else that's going on.


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Ho boy, we had a nightmare of a night last night.  He dropped at 9:45pm (SW thinks we should keep his old 'routine' for now) then woke up at 11:45, wouldn't let me calm him down to DH got up, we had a nightmare, every time he almost dropped off he cried and woke up again, this went on until 3:45am...    DH has been sobbing this morning and we are both shattered, stressed and sick.


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## Poppets Mammy

Oh Katie   it sounds hell, I feel for you both.

I totally disagree with social worker though, it's obviously not working. LO must be totally shattered and the more tired and distressed you all are the cycle goes on and on. I really think you should try co-sleeping in his room, take it in turns to take him to bed and sleep on the floor next to his bed (even if this is at 19:00 you'll catch up on sleep  ), he'll soon figure out it's not play time and sleep himself and then enjoy getting sleep to have a better day the next day. Means you guys will get sleep as well even if it's one of you on his floor and one in your own bed. Once he's more settled you'll be able to start just staying with him while he falls asleep and take the routine and bedtime training from there. But for the meantime you all need to prioritise getting some rest, being over tired is just awful and makes everything else seem so much worse. I really think one of you being in his room will work wonders and helping him relax and sleep properly as he'll know your there to attend to him if need be and it will help with your bonding, also needless to say it gives the other one a full nights peace in bed alone.

But of course that's just my opinion on the situation, you do what you feels best   xx


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

Oh katie. I have to agree with Pm its not working change it. I know at the start we listen to everything sw says and try and be the model parents in their eyes. But with time u realise that your instincts are actually the way to go. You are the ones living the nightmare not them. You can't carry on like this so something has to change and change quickly.

I think sleeping in los room is probably solution.  We did it for odd nights and believe me getting this sorted now when its warm at night is better than doing it in the winter. Bubba room is tiny and we would have our heads on dolls house feet sticking in the hall and arms trying not to bang her wardrobe.  It really works because if they wake u are instantly there your smells are there and the tears don't escalate to full on wide awake screams. 


Try it hun for all of you what have you got to lose. Xx


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## Wyxie

I don't know how you're managing in this heat as well.  Hopefully when it cools down he may sleep better.  Is it worth putting a fan in his room?  Agree that co-sleeping sounds the way to go for now.  Not only is he less likely to ramp up if you're right there, but the other one can hopefully get a full night's sleep.

It will get easier, he's got to crash at some point, and then you call all sleep as well.

I don't agree with the SW either.  He's not sleeping anyway, so why not change it now?  Just a random thought, for want of anything better to suggest, but if you insisted he didn't play and/or run around, even if it did make him upset/cross, would he then go to sleep with you holding/rocking/singing to him?  I've done that with Wyxling a few times when she's refused point blank to stay in bed.  She did get very cross and upset first, but then went straight to sleep and slept through.

I hope you manage to find the answer soon, or at least work out a way for you both to get some sleep round it.


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## GERTIE179

Hey AK - another one who would echo - SW isn't sleep deprived!! How can bluebird and u guys continue to build your bond if you all knackered. Also I would may e put a fan in his room if still as warm as fans are white noise so may help too. 

First night little man was home he slept 7-10.30 ok but from 11-6 DH ended up snoozing on couch with little man screaming himself to sleep & re waking every 45mins HE'LL!  

He used to wake screaming & when me or DH went in he would get more hysterical. We just persevered & kept telling him we loved him, forever etc. it's sooo difficult but lack of sleep is worse. 

Huge hugs and some virtual mummy juice on its way x x


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Thanks all, well we've not changed anything just yet, he fell asleep downstairs in record time and is now up in his bed.  We've put a fan in, partly because of the cooling effect but also for the drone.  We find he sleeps really well in the car, especially on the m-way so maybe that will also help him sleep through?  If this continues we will have to change to staying with him until he goes to sleep in his own bed or sleeping in his room.  Unfortunately though having me in his room doesn't seem to help, he prefers DH and he's going to have to go back to work soon and will deff need a good nights sleep for that...  

It's a toughie but I feel a but better this evening just because DH is more positive, this morning he was in a mess and I just felt awful for him!    Doesn't help that I have a cough and sore throat to finish off the cold I had at the start of the week... nor does the heat!  Seems things are conspiring so surely we'll get a break soon?!  

I love you all for taking so much time to reply, it really does help.  It even helped at 2am this morning when I was reading your replies as DH was trying to soothe a very agitated Bluebird! xxx


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Fingers crossed  
I might be awake with u this evening. We have taken side off cotbed eeeekkkk my bubba all big now  
Now go to bed both and try and get some sleep. Xx


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## Nella

Hi, I hope you don't mind me gatecrashing, but I know how soul destroying lack of sleep can be. Has your little one all his teeth yet? Could he be teething? I always had a nightmare with my 2 sleeping when they were teething- cannines and molars being the worst culprits. DS was whingy all day every day when teething. Would it be worth trying him with calpol or nurofen? If he's got all his teeth, then ignore this suggestion, but if he is in pain, that would make his sleeping lighter and harder to settle back at night.

Hope you have a better night- even a few hour's unbroken sleep will make the world of difference


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## MummyAuntieKatie

aaa, hope you have a good night!  My cousin's little one never bothered getting out of bed when the sides came off, she loves her sleep so much!

Nella, all input gratefully received!  We wondered about teething, we've been dosing him with calpol today, the ibuprofen one, SW suggested it as a possible aid to keeping his temp down and also in case of teething.  We've not had a good look in his mouth yet and FC thinks he has all his teeth but isn't sure, he's also been chewing his fingers and buggy straps so you never know!  It was worth a try anyhow.


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Thanks ak have just been in to make sure she was ok and she was kneeling on the floor with her rabbit not sure if she was awake or asleep poor little thing.


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

Sending big hugs to you and dh ak. 

Hope you have a better night tonight. 


Xxxxx


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## MummyElf

Oh AK I really do feel for you! Big time! 

On a separate note, you mentioned you were south-west - I am too and whilst I'm not sure where you are (and obviously public forum etc) I know where I am they do adoption drop-ins now and then at set locations to meet other adopters and of course wherever you are they may do an adoption picnic? Ours is pretty soon (without being specific). Thought it might be worth bearing in mind to meet other adopters in person. I know quite a few other adopters and honestly it makes ALL the difference to meet others in the same boat. Just thought I'd chuck that in.

I'm with everyone else too - if the routine (or lack of) isn't working, change it. What I'd say with our LO is when she hates something new (like the special sunshade over her pram) I persevere and it although it might mean a lot of upset there and then, she does come round until after a week she is trying to put it on herself! It's very hard persevering when they get so distressed and some battles are not worth it but I do think deciding a routine yourself and starting it then doing it exactly the same every night may help. There is a huge amount of security in routine...for all of us really! So maybe something like dinner, then bath, then milk whilst reading a story or watching a bit of a favourite soothing programme (In the Night Garden etc) then bed....it will probably suck for the first week but I reckon if you stick with it no matter what Bluebird does you could see gradual changes. I'm not an expert, but my niece came home at Bluebird's age (very traumatised!) and routine has really turned things around. She would wake screaming too. She's now a gorgeous, happy four year old.

X

Xx


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Ak I am hoping no news is good news.
I totally echo what LE says talking to people who have adopted makes a HUGE difference.  We have  a get together at our sure start centre once a month and its lovely.  One of the girls from our prep course started it and now our lo are good friends as well and bubba can't wait to get there. It is a great opportunity just to talk openly as well and to be understood. 
Hope u r all ok xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Hello!  Oh crikey, it's up and down here!  We slept a little better last night but not great, at least, I slept a bit better but DH has got himself into a right state and can't sleep even when BB does!    He has been really tearful and down which means he's not bonding at all.  One of the problems is that BB won't settle for me at night, it has to be DH...

Anyway, regarding location, LilyElf, I'll PM you.  I have a feeling we had something through recently and I'd love to know about drop ins.  All my friends are wonderful, but they parent birth children and it's just a bit different. 

All in all I'm feeling a little more positive but I am really worried about DH.


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## keemjay

sometimes in this malarky you have to take turns being strong..its hard to see dh's crumble but they are just human and they do..good that you are feeling a little more positive..means you're able to support him a little..and he will hopefully do the same when its you having a bad day
i had trouble sleeping when littlie first came home..she slept pretty much all night through but i kept waking and could hear her..she made this little droning noise when sucking her dummy. then once i was awake i couldnt get back to sleep! very annoying..
could dh try taking something herbal for sleeping? cant think what the common one to take is  


tbh i'm not surprised LO is unsettled..this heat is mega uncomfortable..its doing mine in..they are so tired from not sleeping well..tempers are very frayed  


kj x


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## GERTIE179

Hey AK,

Glad you feeling a bit better but sorry for DH. I agree with KJ - it's a roller coaster and sometimes we are on at different tracks but that's the strength of a good team 

I really struggled when LO came home re my own sleep. DH could sleep through an earthquake and even if he was up he flaked back off in a heartbeat whereas I took ages plus couldn't sleep through LO waking even on his turn. I almost made myself ill until we agreed turns and whoever held the baby monitor was on duty. Gave my subconscious the permission to let go. As a new parent the worries can keep us awake but the insomnia feeling starts to pass.

Can DH sleep in when he does get off to sleep? We sometimes had clothes etc sorted for next day & whoever got LO up would do brekkie then leave house quietly & let the other one catch up on a few hours. Made such a difference.

Also I was quite harsh on myself - DH was great in stating how good things had came no matter how small. If you can see this its worth reemphasising this to DH & how u can see it working in future ie the first 3 nights when LO slept through in a row DH said I can now see the possibility of getting out to the pics after LO is asleep & babysitter GP here (we're 6months in & still not there yet but are sooo much closer with LO).

I hope you find some use from this.
X x


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Hi all and thank you for your continued support! 

We have decided (as you have rightly said) that we have to take it in turns, and tonight it's up to me, DH is under orders to wear earplugs and switch off and I will deal with whatever happens, after all, there's no help in him having a nervous breakdown!  I'm dreading tonight but if it means he's happier tomorrow then it will be worth it in the end!  We've also got Rescue Remedy and Kalms (day and night ones) so both of us might be able to relax a bit about it all?

We had an epic evening waiting for him to drop off, he's just gone up about 15 mins ago (by that I mean I carried him to bed from the sofa!).  Our SW popped in, whilst she's very encouraging she hasn't really got any practical advice, just stick with it and it will get better!  

I'm just glad I have you all keeping it in perspective and pointing out that it's not just us that have these awful feelings of frustration with our new LO....  

Please all send lots of 'sleep all night' thoughts our way, if it works I'll owe you all very large virtual glasses of wine... (have to be virtual as even I am too scared to drink real alcohol, and I'm the one the MA had concerns about regarding alcohol consumption! lol


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

Sending lots of sleep all night thoughts honey I really hope he sleeps through. 

Sending a big hug to you and dh, your both doing amazing, it's not easy I know but hang in there it does get easier.  

Xxxxxx


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## Lizard39

And SLEEP   hope you all get some sleep tonight. Think its a fab idea that you and hubby take it in turns. Remember its still such early days   and you are doing amazing


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Morning! Rise and shine!  

Well actually it was remarkably a better night!!  DH put in his earplugs and I'm hoping (when he gets up, as he's still sleeping) that he had a whole nights sleep!  Also on the plus side, although Bluebird went to bed at 9 (after falling asleep about 8:45) he didn't wake up until 3!  This means he had a whole 6 hours sleep and I must have got around 4.5 maybe?  He also went straight back to sleep when I went in and put him back down!!    I had trouble dropping off again because I was expecting him to wake again soon and he did, at 5am, and this time he decided it was time to get up, no amount of putting back to bed or persuading would get him to go back to sleep! So here I am and have been since 5:30 trying to keep LO quiet watching cbeebies...    Still, both times he accepted that it was me coming to deal with him and not DH which was a bonus, so no hours and hours of crying and screaming in the wee AM!

I'm calling this one a victory and can't wait to see if DH feels better now he's slept!!  

Next little victory will be if he goes down well and sleeps till at least 6, that would be bliss! I think it's a pipe dream atm but we all need to dream!!


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

That's great ak and hopefully tonight he'll sleep
A little longer  

Hope dh had a good night, I look forward to your update saying he's much better. 

Big hugs to you both and your doing an amazing job xxxxxx


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## GERTIE179

Aww that's good - I remember our first celebration - when from 4/5 wakes to 2 and the longer sleeps. Another idea for getting more sleep is bring your own bedtime forward if u can. I find the nights where LO goes to sleep later (in bed at same time but trouble nodding off at times) he wakes earlier but nights where he nods off at the right time he sleeps past 630 so you might find this similar when you get your pattern going. A lot if sleep advice eats to make them sleep longer initially put them to bed earlier (all about timing the natural sleep cycle & disturbing it enough). Our little boy prefers dark so if he drifts awake at 530 and its bright light he can't get back to sleep so I've taken to keeping all doors shut (except ours) & having blackout blinds in our room too. It's worked a few mornings now cos I just say shhhhh, still sleepy time loudly, and he's went back to sleep til 7!!

I'm glad things are moving forward for you. How's the nap training going? 
X


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## Lizard39

Yeah AuntieKatie   fab the BB & you managed to get some good sleep in and even better that hubby is still asleep. Hope you can all have a better day now you'll all be alittle fresher and not so tired. Intro's and having BB first home in this heat must be exhausting


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## keemjay

hurrah!
celebrating with you    


hope dh has had a really good nights rest


kj x


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## wynnster

Great news      And I hope you're looking forward to your turn of sleeping tonight    I think you certainly deserve that glass of wine, surely!  

Try to catch up on some Zzzzz during the day if you can


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## MummyAuntieKatie

DH laid in until half 8! He had broken sleep but at least a good 6 hours in one chunk.  He kept imagining he heard BB crying or me getting up, when in actual fact none of the times he thought that was happening it actually was!  Anyway, it helped for sure and he's feeling much better.

I think it's right that he'll sleep longer if it's darker and if he goes to bed at a good time, also he really needs to nap in the day and we have been managing to get him to, which is great.  He needs to sleep now in fact.  Unfortunately I can't bring his bedtime forward yet as we are still allowing his terrible habit of falling asleep on the sofa, but we'll get there one step at a time. 

I don't think I'll get to sleep tonight, DH has to work for a few hours tomorrow so likely I'll be on duty again, but I'm looking forward to tomorrow night when I will be taking full advantage, including a large glass of wine!  

It's absolutely certain that things feel a lot brighter when you've slept. I think I might go for a doze later, at the moment all the dogs are being groomed in turn, eldest finished, middle dog in there now and youngest waiting his turn!


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## Poppets Mammy

Wohoooo 🎈🎉😃 congrats on an improved night, once things start getting better you all start feeling more positive and that in turn helps. Glad your getting better sleep, makes all the difference.

Once you get LO sleeping through or almost sleeping through and then introduce the bedtime routine you want successfully, if the early mornings persist I can't recommend a Gro-clock high enough. They are magic, quite pricey but 100% worth every penny. We had a couple of mornings where LO woke before the sun was up on the clock and I just took her back to bed and lay next to her on floor until sun was up. I made it clear that it was not getting up time until the sun was up and within a few days it worked perfectly. Now If she wakes before the sun she lies in bed and waits for it, leaving us to sleep blissfully unaware. It really is a great buy.

We also find that the later LO one falls asleep (if something on her mind and she lies awake thinking) then she has a less productive sleep, the earlier and smoother she goes down the better her sleep and the later she sleeps in. Bizzare isn't it. 

Xx


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## monkeymooo

Great news Katie, you're doing brilliantly, things are moving in the right direction which is fab! I think you'll have a fun day today - wow even the dogs are getting some attention! How are you finding BB is with the dogs now? We have caught LO giving a few tugs / grabs and try to encourage him to be gentle - our dog is a bit of a wuss but I think he's toughening up! 

Have you had his Sw visit yet? Our LO's  is coming this afternoon and I'm wondering if we might have some upset as she is a link with BM/FC. Anyway, we'll see!


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Excellent news. I totally agree with PM the earlier bubba goes to bed her sleep is so much better and she wakes a happy bubby as well. Enjoy the wine xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Funnily enough we popped in to John Lewis with some vouchers and have come out with a grow clock!  It's a bit soon yet but might make a good night light until we can use it properly.  We also got a plug in light for the hall, so we stop falling over on the way to his room! 

LO's SW came the day he was placed and only stayed 30 mins!  Our SW came last night and I think it just put him out a bit as it took ages for him to settle down to sleep after, possibly why he was up so early this morning?  He's gone to sleep tonight at 7:30!  He's been shattered all day, his lunchtime nap was disturbed by the dogs barking and he's been grizzly all day, so a 5am start doesn't suit him any more than it does me it seems!  DH just carrying him up to bed.  He feels good enough to share nighttime duty again tonight so I might get a bit more sleep.  

BB is pretty good with the dogs, he loves to cuddle them and put his face on them all at the same time, but I'm having to watch him because he also won't leave them alone if they want some peace, like when they are under a table etc and tends to put his face too close.  It'll come in time but all in all it's going well and he does a good line in gentle stroking... Also a good line in not so gently stroking too but one step at a time lol!


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Katie you sound like a new person.  Its all starting to fall into place isn't it xx


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## Poppets Mammy

Excellent purchase Katie, when it's time to use it you'll wonder how you could of done without it, it is a god send. If you want any advise on using it just PM me, it's a bit tricky to set up but once you work it out it's not if you know what I mean. We used a sticker chart alongside it and the transformation was unbelievable.

Sounds like things are settling down nicely for you all now, thank goodness eh. It should only get better and better now, no doubt you'll have the odd hiccup now and again but don't take them too much to heart, it happens and often no-one knows why.

5am starts - I remember when poppet had a one of them in the early days and she literally fell asleep on the floor mid afternoon. She was crawling around on all fours talking to the cat one minute and the next 😴 Hahaha, I got an amazing photo of her.

Me and DH have just been talking tonight about how much sleeps she needs for a girl her age, we can tell straight away now when she's tired and it takes me back to when she was first home. Her silly tired hyper behaviour was just her 24/7 when she 1st came home, you'll look back in a few months and see what I mean. Toddlers have a canny knack of appearing full of energy when really they are shattered, they are ever the manipulators  

Xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Yawn!!  Well it wasn't that bad last night, DH said he'd share the night with me and he did the half 11 and half 1 wake up after BB was asleep by about half 7 then I was up at half 3 and he finally decided it was time to get up just before 5.  It wasn't awful because he did go back to sleep, no crying for hours, but I have real issues with this waking up at ten to 5 in the morning.  We forgot to put the black out liner back above his door (which has a glass panel) so maybe he can see it getting light, that will be sorted out tonight, so fingers crossed!  

Just been reading up, basically I reckon that because he's been allowed to go to sleep on the sofa with people around him he needs someone there to drop off again in the night, and by 5 he's almost had all the sleep he needs to when he wakes he comes round almost fully and won't go back to sleep.  I'm concerned that until we can get him to go to sleep in his own room at night we may always have broken sleep.  However, we've decided not to tackle that issue just yet, with all the other changes that he's been through.  We're going to wait until the weather cools down and the nights start to get a little darker.  

He's obviously tired, he falls asleep about half 10-11 am for a nap and can sleep for 2 hours, if he sleeps for less than that (like yesterday) he's whiny and moody all day. At night he tries everything to not fall asleep, until he's just so tired he can't fight it any more.


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Get the blackouts everywhere. Bubba curtains are tucked behind books so they stay flat to the wall and light doesn't get in.
There was a massive change in bubba when she went into her cot and fell asleep it was almost instant as well we got 12 hours unbroken.

Poor bubba keeps falling out of bed bless her she just sleeps on the floor by her bed. Hoping it stops soon.

It.is lovely to hear you sounding happier xx


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## GERTIE179

Great news AK that its moving forwards. If I can give you a bit of hope my little man needs one if us to go to sleep but as he's more settled in his bed when he wakes up (everyone does during sleep but its fleeting), he 99% of the time takes himself back off. The 5am wake up calls persisted but once we started getting him asleep before 730 & he started sleeping through then his normal wake up time us 630/7. 

Unfortunately I think our little men sound alike and if they prefer darkness they are early wakers but they do go off early too ;-)

Also once he started waking after 630 I found I could gradually move his nap on by 15mins a week so an now get him to other kiddy play things to allow him to mix but where I'm still very close. It's fond wonders for his confidence & his bond with me as he knows I'm always there even in new environments.

Keep up the good work x x


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## MummyAuntieKatie

After a bit more reading we've decided he needs to nap after lunch (he's actually asleep now but he was absolutely knackered and I was going to do him a mischief if he didn't cheer up), so going to try and get him to sleep from 1-3 to reduce the time he's awake before bedtime.  Also realising and being told on here and elsewhere, that sleep breeds sleep so fingers crossed!  This way, if he has an after lunch nap, I can take him to toddler group in the mornings.  That, plus blacking out his bedroom and the fact that he's obviously getting more comfortable here because he can stir in the night but go off again with minimum fuss and not be up for ours all seems to point to the fact that we will get there.

This morning has been really fraught, just because I'm shattered, he's shattered and crying/whining at everything and no one knew what to do with themselves... DH has just gone to work and won't be back until about 4 but I've got the rest of the day planned, quick trip to Tesco, run about the garden, lunch, nap for us both, then a quick snack before meeting DH at Kiddicare to get some more essentials to make life easier!  Once we get home again I'm 'tagging' DH as duty officer! 

We can do this, but sometimes it feels like we can't!  I sure would have gone mad by now if not for you wonderful lot!!


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Ah Katie been reading and thinking of you. Glad you're getting more sleep you're doing amazingly x xx


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## keemjay

great to hear things are improving AK  
just wanted to add..DD used to have a little morning nap around 9.15/9.30 for about 45-mins-1hr..she wasnt getting up at 5 but sometimes between 6 and 7am so she would eat brekkie and have a little play and then it was like she needed to just finish off her nights sleep before she could start the day properly!  then she would also have the afternoon one aswell..1 till 3ish
if your little chap is getting up at silly o'clock and being a misery all morning its something you might like to try   just thought I'd offer it up as an idea  
and yes SLEEP BREEDS SLEEP!!!!


kj x


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## snapdragon

My lo naps 1-3 which works well. Until recently he woke around 6am but seems to have shifted to nearer 7am. Long may it continue.


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## MummyAuntieKatie

KJ our thoughts exactly, if he's up that early I'm going to get him to nap from 9 ish then again in the afternoon.  It took me an hour to get him off just now, he finally went at 1330 and the dogs barked and woke him up!!  Bloody stupid sofa idea!!  took me until 1400 to get him to go again so I'll see if he'll stay down until 1530.  Poor dogs are locked in the garden but there is some shade at least.  I'm going to hose them down in a mo in case they have to be out there longer.

See, all this sofa business is rediculous for a normal family day, the postman, neighbours, dogs, they'll all wake him up.  At least if he was in his bed he's be further away from the noise.  I've unplugged the phone and the doorbell!


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## GERTIE179

AK, my LO is a light sleeper so we find the lullabies on monitor very good to drown out other noise during naps & at night. But yes if LO sleeps on couch when not well etc he wakes at anything. Hus best place is his own bed so you might see him nod off easier for naps too once you get there (and give u more time too as sitting with them to drift off when it takes so long means u don't get a wee nap/tidy time).

X


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## Wyxie

Glad to hear you're making progress.

Getting a good sleep routine is so difficult, especially with children who fight it.  Wyxling fights being tired a lot of the time.  She can be absolutely knackered and determined to stay awake, then whine like hell that she feels awful and is tired all the next day... until it comes to bedtime of course!  I'm trying to start things off with Bladelet atm.  He still falls asleep while having his bottle, and I'm trying to put him into his cot while he's still a little bit awake, then stay with him until he's gone off to sleep.  With him being younger and much more manageable it's a lot easier to do that though.

It will all get better in time I'm sure.

Having a set routine will really help you all, especially BB.  We do things at the same time each day, and Wyxling finds it massively reassuring, it really helps to calm her.  We have a set time of day for going out and doing things, whether it's toddlers, soft play, ducks, park etc.  Set times for snacks, her playing on her own while I do stuff, or at least try, me playing with her, Mummy's time for organising things.  In some ways it's a pita, but in others it helps a lot.

Sounds like you're doing really well for a very sleep deprived Mummy!


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

Your doing really well ak getting the routine is hard but you get there. 

I'm struggling getting lo in his cot at nap times he has no problems in the buggy. Today we managed afternoon nap in the cot so I am very happy  

Keep going you'll get your routine sorted very soon. 

Big big hugs xxxxx


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## keemjay

i just had a though AK..while i was sitting on my sofa..unlikely but is it possible you could move the/a sofa or armchair from downstairs to LO's bedroom? then he still gets to fall asleep on  a sofa but in his room!
bit mad but just an idea  


kj x


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

How was last night honey? 

Xxxx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Sorry for delay in updating the sleep saga, it's been a long old day. lol

Well, we cocked up a bit last night, we were having problems getting BB to doze off on the sofa (still such a dumb idea) so DH lost his temper (not with BB visibly, just got frustrated and fed up) and decided to put him to bed and get him to doze off there, like it or not, but all that did was wind him up and end up making him over tired.  We got him to bed about 9pm in the end.  He woke up 5 times in the night but really easy to put back down, just a lost dummy or a quick shush and he was back to sleep.  at 5:40 he wanted to get up but DH presavered and BB did go back to sleep eventually but not until about 6:40 and was up at just before half 7...  So, I'm not sure whether that was a win or not but I didn't feel so bone crushingly tired today and did get a little nap about half 3.

BB was shattered all morning, very whiny, grizzly and I'm sorry to say, hard to love!!  I decided to throw caution to the wind and put him down for a nap at 11:30 (had been hoping to give him lunch and get him to nap around 12:30/1) and give him lunch when he woke up.  He was asleep in minutes and had a good hour and ten mins, had lunch and was brighter.  However, he's obviously still tired and not getting enough sleep as he was grizzly and objectionable again by 5 so we decided to bring stuff forward, he had his dinner, a play in the garden and was in the bath by 6:15, downstairs for milk and was asleep on the sofa at 6:50!!!!!  Shhhhh, I'm ever the optimist, hoping for a quiet night and a normal-ish morning, give me until 6, dare I even ask for 7??   

I guess in one way we are winning a battle as he had no set times for naps or bed at FC, he just dropped when he dropped... Can't be having that, everyone in this house needs some structure! 

Considered the sofa idea, it might be something to try, not as unlikely as you might think lol!


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## Poppets Mammy

Bone crushingly tired   that made me laugh, I know that feeling

I think your winning, sounds like he's settling loads easier during the night and that will get easier and easier and less and less as he becomes more settled.

If I were in your shoes (and I was just a few months ago) I would seriously just scrap the whole sofa drama, it's a nightmare for all for so many reasons. It will only be harder when you do try to introduce bed as bedtime. Seriously poppet flew off the handle so many times at being taken to bed instead of lying on sofa and we questioned our motives ALOT. It was hard to see her distressed and really when it's so early in placement you are just learning how to parent it's hard to make judgements and decisions on pretty much everything and anything. At the end of the day toddlers want what they want. He doesn't want to go to bed/sleep and poppet didn't either. We tried everything, nicely nice, tough love, ignoring etc etc but eventually found a technique that worked and stuck with it and each night the drama over bedtime got less and less. It's amazing how quick they adapt to it once you enforce it. The first few times is awful and makes you question the whole thing, but it will need doing eventually and I just think sooner rather than later. BB still sounds sleep deprived, and once you get the sleep sorted you'll start to see the real BB and you'll get to know your son better and the rest will all fall into place.

Don't mean to sound critical and I apologise if I do, your doing fantastic and there's obviously improvements already, but that is still my advice.

 xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

PM, don't worry, I know where you are coming from, we have struggled and struggled with the decision on how to deal with the sofa, DH wants to just put him to bed and help him to sleep there, I'm not sure as I find the fights and crying really hard so would prefer the easy life of letting sleeping dogs lie.  However, it is a problem, he's in the lounge at the front of the house and any noise can wake him, plus if the dogs hear a noise they start barking and that wakes him up so it's really not ideal at all.  It also means I really can't go about my business as I'm forever trying to creep around.  We'll have another chat about it. xx


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Katie I am sure once we had cracked it our sw asked what we changed I reluctantly told her as I was convinced we would get the look. She didn't she said if she had realised what we were doing she would have told us to change it. She said so many fc do it as they feel it helps with bonding but she didn't agree. Gawd knows why that conversation has just come back into my head


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## crazyspaniel

Ah AK, really feel for you xx
I'd give another vote for ditching the sofa and taking him straight to bed. Tell yourself it's in his best interests to do this and the trauma it causes will be short lived (hopefully)! If you don't do it now you still have those battles to come. When discussing the defiant ways of a 2yr old with our sw she pointed out that its easier to start off with strict boundaries and relax them later on than the other way round....

I know it's not easy and hope you get progress soon    

Cs xxx


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## GERTIE179

Glad to hear you sounding positive & glad u are getting about more rest. It's sooo hard when they cry and get hysterical with it so I understand your worries. Having had a carp night trying to get little man off tonight (this heat is not good for toddlers getting to sleep!!), but one thing I would say is you may be delaying the hysterical crying. My own brother fell asleep like this from about BBs age til 4.5 (it stemmed from a trauma that was unavoidable) but eventually he was too heavy to carry to bed and I remember the hysterical tears & screams for a good few nights til the new routine was established. It might be easier to just change it a bit at a time ie maybe naps if he's going off well enough and for BB its not all night and as scary to be on his own? if he's comfortable going to sleep in his room for naps it might be a smooth transition at night too??  I persevered during intros for little man to sleep in his cot with this in my mind.
Just a suggestion x


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## keemjay

AK i'm having visions of you and dh lugging you sofa up the stairs this evening  


and I'm with the others too about ditching the downstairs/sofa routine  
i seem to remember maaaaany pages back you saying the sw advisd keeping it the same as he used to..well just dont tell her  


kj x


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## keemjay

thought you might like a little laugh to lighten your days AK..I thought of you when i saw it..esp test 3

Ready to have kids?? take the test!
Test 1: Preparation

Men: To prepare for children:
1.Go to a local chemist. Tip the contents of your wallet on to the counter and tell the pharmacist to help himself.
2.Go to the supermarket. Arrange to have your salary paid directly to its head office.
3.Go home. Pick up the newspaper and read it for the last time.

Test 2: Knowledge
Find a couple who are already parents and berate them about their methods of discipline, lack of patience, appallingly low tolerance levels and how they have allowed their children to run wild.
Suggest ways in which they might improve their child's sleeping habits, toilet training, table manners and overall behaviour.
Enjoy it. It will be the last time in your life when you will have all the answers.

Test 3: Nights
1.Walk around the living room from 5pm to 10pm carrying a wet bag weighing 4-6kg, with a radio turned to static (or some other obnoxious sound) playing loudly.
2.At 10pm, put the bag down, set the alarm for midnight and go to sleep.
3.Get up at 11pm and walk the bag around the living room until 1am.
4. Set the alarm for 3am.
5. As you can't get back to sleep, get up at 2am and make a cup of tea.
6.Go to bed at 2.45am.
7. Get up again at 3am when the alarm goes off.
8.Sing songs in the dark until 4am.
9.Put the alarm on for 5am. Get up when it goes off.
10.Make breakfast.
Keep this up for five years - and LOOK CHEERFUL.

Test 4: Dressing small children
1.Buy a real life octopus and string bag with holes in it.
2.Attempt to put the octopus into the string bag so that no tentacles come out of the holes.
Time allowed: five minutes.

Test 5: Cars
1.Forget the BMW. Buy a practical five-door wagon.
2.Buy a chocolate ice-cream cone and put it in the glove compartment. Leave it there.
3.Get a coin. Insert it into the CD player.
4.Take a box of chocolate biscuits. Mash them into the back seat.
5.Run a garden rake along both sides of the car.
Test 6: Going for a walk
1.Wait.
2.Go out the front door.
3.Come back in again.
4.Go out.
5.Come back in again.
6.Go out again.
7.Walk down the front path.
8.Walk back up it.
9.Walk down it again.
10.Walk very slowly down the road for five minutes.
11.Stop, inspect minutely and ask at least six questions about every piece of used chewing gum, dirty tissue and dead insect along the way.
12.Retrace your steps.
13.Scream that you've had as much as you can stand, until the neighbours come out and stare at you.
14.Give up and go back in the house.

Test 7: Conversations with children
Repeat everything you say at least five times.

Test 8: Grocery shopping
1.Go to the local supermarket. Take with you the nearest thing you can find to a pre-school child - a fully grown goat is excellent. If you intend to have more than one child, take more than one goat.
2.Buy your weekly groceries - without letting the goat(s) out of your sight.
3.Pay for everything the goat eats or destroys.
Until you can easily accomplish this, do not even contemplate having children.

Test 9: Feeding a one-year-old
1.Hollow out a melon.
2.Make a small hole in the side.
3.Suspend the melon from the ceiling and swing it from side to side.
4.Get a bowl of soggy cornflakes and attempt to spoon them into the swaying melon while pretending to be an aeroplane.
5.Continue until half the cornflakes are gone.
6.Tip the rest into your lap, making sure most of it falls on the floor.

Test 10: TV
1.Learn the names of every character from the In The Night Garden, Barney, Teletubbies and Disney.
2.Watch nothing else on TV for at least five years.

Test 11: Mess
1.Smear peanut butter on to the sofa and jam on to the curtains.
2.Hide a fish behind the stereo and leave it there all summer.
3.Stick your fingers in the flowerbeds, then rub them on clean walls. Cover the stains with crayon.
4.Empty every drawer/cupboard/storage box in your house on to the floor, then proceed with Step 5.
5.Drag random items from one room to another and leave them there.

Test 12: Long trips with toddlers
1.Make a recording of someone shouting 'Mummy' repeatedly. 
Important notes: there must not be more than a four-second delay between each Mummy, and include occasional crescendos to the level of a supersonic jet.
2.Play this tape in your car everywhere you go for four years.

Test 13: Conversations with adults
1.Start talking to an adult of your choice.
2.Have someone else continually tug on your skirt hem or shirt sleeve while playing the Mummy tape listed above.

Test 14: Getting ready for work
1.Pick a day on which you have an important meeting.
2.Put on your finest work attire.
3.Take a cup of cream and put one cup of lemon juice in it.
4.Stir.
5.Dump half of it on your nice silk shirt.
6.Saturate a towel with the other half of the mixture.
7.Attempt to clean your shirt with the same saturated towel.
8.Don't change (you have no time).
9.Go directly to work.
You are now ready to have children. ENJOY!

​


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Kj OMG   so true xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Yep, that gave me a giggle!  

Well, last night was odd.  BB dropped off at 6:50 pm, we'd decided to bring everything forward a little as he was so tired and isn't getting enough sleep.  Record time too and we even had time to eat dinner! 

If I remember rightly, he woke up at about half 9 and half 11 (isn) then again at half 12 and half 1.  He then slept until 5 and DH spent half an hour or so trying to make him go back for longer, he finally got up at 6:15 and here I am.

The reason I say it was odd was, not only did he wake up often but each time it took us longer to get him back to sleep.  None of these times did he get out of bed however.  I think I'm just hoping it's the heat, which shows to signs of abating!  

Anyhow, DH is still in bed and I think that when he gets up I might go back for a bit, catch up on some Zzzzzz's, not sure what we'll do when DH goes back to work full time though.


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## Poppets Mammy

Keemjay - Laughing so hard right now while poppet repeats over and over 'what ya doing? What funny? What ya doing? Which is just making me laugh louder and harder Hahahaha   xx

Katie - that could well be the heat, it cools down about midnight/1ish. The other thought is he may of woken up originally due to heat then because he got attention everytime he stirred he thought 'oh I'll get Mammy and Daddy and get some attention', instead of just going back off. It's so hard trying to work it all out isn't it.   get a quick nap once DH is up xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

We talked about that last night PM.  Do we ignore him and see if he'll drop back off?  The danger being, if he doesn't drop back off he could ramp it up until he's in a state and awake then we'll be up for 2-3 hours... So hard!  Shame they don't come with an off switch!


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## Poppets Mammy

That's why I suggested co-sleeping on the floor as we had the same dilemma. Ignoring them is not a good idea as you say they just get more anxious and wound up until it's hysterics and they essentially get the attention they wanted anyway. But if you go in, quick reassurance and 'shhhh sleep time' then no more attention just presence, if he nods off then perfect, if not then one of you sleep on the floor. That way he gets reassurance and comfort from you just being there but without actual attention which reinforces the wake ups. That's what we did with Poppet and it worked perfectly and surprisingly quickly  xx


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## Wyxie

Sounds like you're getting somewhere, even if it's slow progress.  Getting a nap and bedtime routine is so important.  Once kids get used to sleeping at a certain time of day they just kind of need it and it makes it easier.


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Odd one again last night, wins and losses I think.  BB struggled to go to sleep, crying, over tired etc but was in bed by 8.  He woke up at 23:30 and was unsettled for an hour, DH went in to him and he went back to sleep but when DH came back in the bedroom he couldn't sleep and is screwed up about it all.  I finally went back to sleep again about 02:00 and B woke up at 05:45 but went back to sleep until 06:45, which is much better.  BUT, this morning (I stayed in bed for a bit) Dh is tearful and stressed again, he's just not coping with the lack of sleep and the toddler defiance/tantrums and I don't know what to do to help.


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## wynnster

Send him (dh) back to bed AK, he is probably just tired, not enough sleep plays havoc with emotions   

Sounds like BB had a much improved night though, only waking once    It takes time to get used to having a littlie sleeping in the house, even when they're sleeping peacefully you can be laying awake imagining that you can hear them   

I'm sure someone has suggested this already, but have you thought about co-sleeping?  Perhaps move his cot into your room so you're immediately available?  You may find that you all sleep better if you're all in one room   

xx


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## GERTIE179

Hugs AK

This weather is having an affect on all our sleeps. How are you doing? Think you are up to sending DH out for few hours doing something pre BB (lots of exciting sport on at present). Sleep deprecation is just awful but maybe he's getting a bit of post adoption blues when reality doesn't match expectation? It will in time I'm sure but nothing can prepare you for a run all the time 2yr old with terrible twos & recently moved worlds thrown in. U guys need to think survival and if DH needs some time out to recharge it might help him put in perspective & sleep ok. U can then try and gets one back during the week & meet a friend after BB is sleeping. U need to feed ur own souls to be strong enough.

It might be worth asking ur SW if she knows anyone LO local to u that has adopted a toddler recently. U might find hearing another adoptive dad say its bedlam etc may validate DHs feelings (ifs he's feeling a bit what have we done!) or even a post adopt support group (our local AUK runs a dads group that meet every 6-8 weeks and they go to pub, cycle, arrange sponsored walks etc. men tend to bottle up their stresses esp if u r used to him being the strong one.

X


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Ak when does hubby go back to work? Totally agree with trying to meet with other adoters cause it helps beyond belief. I would certainly think about sleeping on the floor it makes such a difference for lo knowing u r there when they wake up not knowing where they are. 
It will get easier are u getting out during the day? Try taking bb swimming its an amazing bond and way to exhaust lo.


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## monkeymooo

Sorry to hear DH struggling Katie, I also wondered if you could give each other some 'time off' in the day? Even just an hour to do whatever you fancy - DH and I have been walking the dog separately just for a change of focus and we find we come back with a fresh energy to deal with the toddler mahem! Also speaking to other adopters I agree is such a help, sending soothing vibes to you both x


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Dh went back to bed after lunch.  He seems to be feeling a bit better, lets hope we have a fairly good night!  I think speaking to his sister helped a bit, I say a bit because she wasn't a huge comfort and he felt the 'I told you so' vibe, but she did make him see that what we are going through is very mainstream stuff for a family with a 2 year old.  We have the added issues of the adoption but we are feeling less like we are experiencing odd behaviour.  Time and sleep will help loads I'm positive.

My brother and his mrs came over and we ate in the garden, BB seemed to love having the company and has really taken to bro.  I know it's early days but having talked to FC it seems he was used to having lots of people in and out.  We've also seen a friend who has a 3 year old as BB was used to living with 2 other LO's, that went down well too.  I don't think it's a one size fits all blanket thing with not introducing them to other people, we are just keeping it all very low key and only a couple of people at a time.  It's really good for our sanity too!  I'm feeling very positive about making plans for stay and play activities in a week or two, to give him more company his own age.  

This morning I was feeling like I might have to cope with all this on my own, but as DH seems a little more positive I'm hoping we can do this together... He's going back to work short days next week and I do think that will help him gain some perspective.  I also agree that he needs to have other outlets, so do I, we'll have to sort something out.  The other issue is that heat and I don't mix so what with being tired and hot I'm missing the joy in having BB here, it's feeling too much like a chore.  We need to discover the fun in each other. 

Thanks again everyone, you are invaluable!  Also, going to look out for adoption groups and see if we can meet up with others.  Unfortunately the other people we have kept in touch with from Prep haven't been matched yet, I was sure we wouldn't be first!!     xx


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Pleased you are feeling  ok. Honestly hun 2 year olds are a hand full at the best of times without having all these changes going on. Maybe once hubby is back at work u will all start falling into a routine and with routine comes security.  Speak to your sw or hv they should know if there is anything near by. 
Hopefully it won't be too long till others are matched then u will have others in the same boat. Xx


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## GERTIE179

Awe that sounds like a good day. I found we settled into a routine better once DH at work (a bit daunting but much easier than I expected).

I agree that Los coming from busy FCs sometimes miss that and find the intensity of just parents difficult - certainly ours did. However he couldn't cope with many new people and certainly not in his house so pleased that you are being able to do that. 

One of the adoptive parents who spoke at ny prep gave me a good tip that we follow - only u 3 go upstairs (at least for first few months). As it helps them know who lives with them and not get confused. 

Another tip for the hot weather is the sprinkler on & play games jumping over it as it sprays. Keeps them cooler. I found today LO got really cranky & I got the hose out - 2kins later cranky side away til bedtime. 

U will get there - 2yrs are just hard work & u are still learning about BB as is he. Glad DH seeing that a lot is normal. Sleep issues are not uncommon - I spoke to a woman at toddlers who's 3.5yr had never slept for more than 3hours at a time and as a baby woke up 9-10 times most nights!! My own SWs 3yr woke at least once a night til recently. 

I tend to leave LO bath time to daddy (bondibg time) as he's normally home by then and it gives me 30mibs of uninterrupted time to clear dinner dishes, deal with dog, sort laundry so that once LO is asleep you & DH can relax a bit plus DH does more fun baths than I do lol

X


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## keemjay

AK this heat is a killer..totaly sapping my zest for life and joy in anything, so completely get where you are coming from. just remember you WILL get through this and it WILL become joyful..
ditto the point about water play..even just loooong cool baths with plenty of playing and fun..add loads of empty water bottles of differnt sizes, a short length of garden hose,a watering can rose..and just have fun, great for bonding in the cool..


if BB is enjoying company and its less intensive then by all means have people over..i would just say if you do that, always balance it with more intensive some mummy- only- at- home time the following day. Or do meeting people away from the home..theres no need to be shut up alone in your house all day, you'll go mental but theres no reason you cant take him out...and  in some ways its good because the coming home again re-inforces the idea of his new home again  


kj x


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

Hi honey, how you getting on? Xxx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Hi all!  thanks for all the messages!

Lat night wasn't too bad really. BB was asleep by 7, he's shattered most days.  He slept until about midnight but was hard to get back to sleep and then 10 mins after I got back into bed he cried again and DH went in to him.  He was asleep again by 1 and we had no crying.  He woke up then at 5:25 but I managed to get him back to sleep and he woke up again at 6:45, much better!!!  

We did the tesco shop this morning then after a nap (which he fought for all of 5 minutes) we popped out to see my friend and her 3 year old, she has a great playroom!  The boys played nicely and BB took it all in his stride.  DH is now reading him stories on the sofa hoping for an early night!!  

We are still tired, and I still find it hard to accept his tantrums and whining but things are improving and he's much more snuggly.  ALso, the weather should be cooling down, fingers crossed!!!


----------



## GERTIE179

Hey AK,

Sounds wonderful that its all moving forward and you tend to know when he'll wake & how'll he go back down which is great. I find days in back garden or small local swing park just the two us really helps reduce the whiny/tantrums behaviour (most if which stems from tiredness and the new world he has). But I also found it helped my sanity loads by doing this. We still had plenty of home 121 time but I knew we would go out for a while after lunch every day really helped me keep my head. Just a tip as I found that difficult when I was soo tired too. 

X x


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## Wyxie

Sounds like things are moving in the right direction, really pleased you're feeling more positive.  Having some company for you will probably help, but even if your l/o turned bright blue and grew horns everyone you know will still tell you that all kids do that, it's all perfectly normal, it's just you who doesn't know what toddlers are really like.  

It's complicated and the move brings out the extremes.  It's also not normal to be dealing with baby sleep patters and toddler's difficult behaviour at the same time. 

I have to say, I think you're doing brilliantly.  Bladelet is poorly and teething, he was sleeping OK despite the teething actually, until he got cold.  In fact he self-soothes really well and we've managed to move to putting him in his cot awake.  I should have known it was too easy!  He's now waking himself up because he won't sleep with his dummy out, but can't breath with it in, and then howling about the cold, temperature (illness), temperature (it's too bloomin' hot) and his teeth.  I've had a few seriously bad nights now, first since he was placed 4 weeks ago, and dealing with Wyxling calmly, and managing to stay a step ahead of her and keep her amused despite herself, in addition to a very needy baby, has been very hard.  I am rewardingly myself with a beer and eating the kid's chocolate - people buy them far too much and I'm certainly not having Wyxling running round high on sugar in addition to everything else!  Hubby's on duty for a bit now.

Hope things continue to go in the right direction.  Hubby going back to work might not be such a bad thing.  It'll be hard for a few days, but then you'll start to establish what will be your normal routine, and once that's in place things will get much easier for you and BB.

All the best,

Wyxie xx


----------



## Wyxie

Also, as Gertie said, I find trips out really help, I never spend a whole day in with Wyxling.  Given the weather for the next week if you've got a decent pair of wellies for the pair of you, and a puddle suit for bb, you'll probably be able to wear him out jumping in all the biggest muddiest puddles together, and it's a great way to bond/have fun together when it really doesn't matter how dirty he gets or gets you.  It was so soggy last summer I bought a full set of waterproofs for me as well as Wyxling, I think the waterproof trousers may be coming out tomorrow.  We normally hit our local park early, before it gets busy, I tend to get there for about 9 in the morning when they're normally quiet, but it is harder in the summer holidays.

Edited to add: If you do combine puddlesuit and parks, as I have done a few times, be warned that a toddler in a puddle suit going down a wet metal slide will shoot off the end like they've had a rocket strapped to their backside - be braced to catch unless it's a soft landing!


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Thanks Wyxie!  I feel like I'm still faking it but it's getting better!  Sleep seems to be improving too, kind of!  We seem to have hit a bit of a pattern, he wakes between 11:30 and 12:30 and last night was awake for an hour and a half but that's worse than the last few nights.  Then he wakes up again at between 5 and 5:30 (this morning was 5:25 but I managed to get him back to sleep about 6 and he slept until 7:10, a much more sensible time to be up and about!! 

Sorry to hear B is teething and unsettled.  Hopefully you might find the cooler weather will help everyone settle (we are sure keeping our fingers crossed!).

We're off to the local toddler group this morning, it's only across the road and because it's the holidays it's likely to be quiet, which is good for a first try.  BB really seems to like the company of other kids and it will keep him entertained for a morning.  Daddy has gone back to work again and won't be home until gone 5, a long day today, but he's doing later mornings for the next 2 days and taking Friday off.  Next week we could be settling back into normal hours which means he'll be leaving the house about 6, not sure how that is going to work out and I'm going to have to work out how to shower!  lol 

(oh dear, meltdown in progress because I stopped him from messing with the TV speakers... )


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## crazyspaniel

Glad things are improving AK  
Xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Well, the night before last was a bit rubbish, although it had good potential!  BB woke up at 2:30, that was a good long sleep, and he went back to sleep really quickly but then he woke up at 4:40 and I couldn't get him back to sleep at all, lost my temper at 6:20 and went to the toilet, in the mean time DH got up and went in to him, finally getting him back to sleep about 7 and he lasted until 8!  It might seem daft putting him back to bed at that time, but it was kind of a teaching thing, that he can't get up at 4:40 and really needs to go back to sleep.  I had a few tears, just because I was tired and irritated, partly at myself.  Trouble is we are waking up in the wee small hours and just listening for him to start crying. 

Yesterday was a bad day, tantrums galore and he's started to smack the dogs, I can't ignore that behaviour but when I try to tell him it's wrong he has a huge temper tantrum, kicking, screaming, lying on the floor... So it was tough.

DH was a bit later than usual home from work and then BB took ages to go to sleep, finally got him to bed at 8.  Then surprisingly we only had one wake up!!!  Unfortunately it was at 4:20!!!  DH tried to get him back to sleep twice then I went in and he was gone by 5:10 but awake at 6.  I figured 6am was as good as we were going to get so here I am.  Now, if I can learn to relax and actually sleep, and maybe even get him to sleep past 5 we could be on to a winner!

Now, any advice on stopping the smacking of dogs would be great, also, I've just moved him away from the TV because he was banging the screen (I asked him to stop, he carries on giving me the 'I know I'm doing wrong look), and he's now having a hissy fit, screaming in temper... I'm ignoring him but it really grates!  Especially when he tries slapping me and throwing books!!    I know, he's 2, but by god doesn't he want to make sure we know it!!!


----------



## aaa is a MUMMY

Katie he is pushing boundaries to see how you will react. Move him away say no. It worked for us for  awhile its probably to early days for a timeout. Does distraction work. It never has on bubbba but has amazing results with my nephews. I remember been out with them (3 of them twins would have been 3 and big bro 5) and world war 3 was about to start we were in a pet shop looking at fish and omg it came from no where. I said something stupid like wow look at that dog toy just like granny dog got lets go and look.  Job done fight avoided and they had forgotten what it was. I used it a few weeks ago and theh are couple of years older now and still works
All sounds perfectly normal


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Hi I think it is on here a couple of you have mentioned the gro clock. I have been reading reviews on amazon and a lot of them say its very bright.  Is it?? Bubba room is tiny and she isn't keen on light. We currently have a gro egg which she is fine with does anyone know if clock is brighter than the egg?
Since we took side off cot bed she is waking during the night and fairly early getting up. She is settling quickly during the night but I take ages to go back to sleep. We are hoping once she feels happier in bed we will be back to normal 12+ hours uninterrupted sleep.

Hope things are ok today. We are off for a swim this afternoon x


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## snapdragon

We have hitting the TV too (plus throwing and hitting). My lo does lots of things for attention so I find saying no quite calmly and moving him away from the TV works best. Its very difficult but remember these behaviours are all normal for a 2 year old without throwing in the adoption stuff. With the dogs all you can do is keep saying no we don't hit and show him how to stroke the dog gently.


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## Wyxie

Hi AK, hope you're doing OK.

The behaviour is pretty normal and in all likelihood he's boundary testing; what are the rules here and what happens if I break them?

We had a lot of battles with Wyxling and get a lot of testing behaviour.  Also out and out defiance, doing something for the sake of defying rather than because it's fun, even though it's against the rules, or because she's forgotten she shouldn't and gets over-enthusiastic.  

I don't think ignoring behaviour that's definitely not OK is a good idea.  It certainly didn't work with Wyxling.  Having said that, it is definitely a good idea to pick your battles carefully at the moment.  I find it very hard not to jump on Wyxling for low level irritating stuff that I'd like to stop her doing, but it just ends up with my constantly b*tching at her, and it doesn't help.  I try to make myself stop for a second before I open my mouth, and think; does it really matter?  Clearly hitting the TV and you and the dogs does matter.  Like others have suggested, I would simply do a very calm "No, we don't do x" or "BB needs to remember gentle hands/feet please" and move him away at the same time.  If it causes a tantrum then so be it.  Wait until he's got it out his system and gets to the upset stage, and then comfort him if he'll allow you, and be sympathetic to his frustration.  If you can then distract him that would be ideal, but it can be hard.  I find it really hard to think of distractions on my feet so to speak, so I actually started to keep a list of things that I'd used that had worked, and refer back to it occasionally especially when tired and having a bad day, to give me some ideas.

I would avoid consequences that are put as a punishment at this stage, and definitely nothing that puts him away from you.  I would probably be tempted to turn the TV off for 5 minutes if he kept wacking it, though, but just do in a "we don't wack the TV, if we're not watching it let's do "x" instead" way rather than "if you hit the TV I will turn it off" and just have an activity or two pre-thought of in case you need to get him doing something else quickly.

We were advised to do "time in" with Wyxling, but I don't call it that, as that would seem like a punishment to her, and it's not a punishment.  When she is cycling through defiant behaviour one thing after another and I can see she's got into a rut and isn't going to get herself out, we sit down for some quiet time together, no toys, books etc, just us.  In reality this will almost always cause a big tantrum, and I keep her with me while she tantrums, move her hands and feet and just do a very gentle "no, we don't wack people" etc if she hits me.  This is not as easy as she sounds because she really fights it, but it's doable.  I just think of her as a baby and try to respond as I would to a baby, not taking the behaviour seriously, but keeping her close, rocking her, singing to her, and talking to her in a very limited way, just Mummy will look after her until she's calmed down.  I was also advised not to get into a dialogue with her when she's in this state, which was definitely good advice.  I am the parent, I know best, and I don't have to explain my actions, I just tell her what is happening.  Afterwards she will be very upset and want me for a long time.  This is the time when children are emotionally youngest and most vulnerable, just a baby, and the upside of these tantrums/rages is that in the immediate aftermath by being there for a child, you start to build that attachment to you.  After tantrums I was told to keep Wyxling with me for as long as she'd allow me to, and when she no longer really needs the cuddles, move on to little games like row the boat, round and round the garden, and gradually increase the "pace" until she's at a more normal level and ready to deal with going and trying to play properly again.  It actually works very well when she will engage with it, sometimes she will, sometimes she won't. 

As others have said all the stuff he's doing is normal, but it's probably more intense because of the situation, and it's also very hard to manage discipline with a child whose personality you don't know, while at the same time trying to build a relationship with him.

I would keep the dogs away from him until he has calmed down.  You just don't want to risk provoking a response.  If SS found out about him hitting them, they may have some issues with that, I wouldn't mention it to his s/w if you haven't already, just try and avoid the problem.  Don't be too concerned by that at the moment, he's too young to be being cruel.  He's still at the egocentric stage of development so thinking through consequences to others and/or empathy is simply beyond him.  He's just defying and testing. 

If you want a chat at all, please do pm, it's so hard trying to do this on your own and knowing you just can't get everything right.  What works for one child doesn't for another, but in general, thinking much younger than his actual age is going to lead you along the right lines.  I am finding Wyxling is getting much better again now, and when she is misbehaving I am treating her exactly the same way I would Bladelet who's 11 months old.  It's harder of course because she's much bigger and stronger, but it seems to be working well and it has in the past.

Most of all, try and stay very calm with him, even when he makes you want to scream, you can do that later.  He will learn you as much as anything else, and if he sees that you're very calm in the face of misbehaviour and it's not anything special or inconvenient to you, then it will be much less fun.  Mummy baiting works best when Mummy gets cross!


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## GERTIE179

Hey AK,

I would also remove the dogs if he's doing this for attention. They know very quickly the things that push your buttons & sometimes keep repeating. My LO loves the dog but when he went onto his hitting/lashing out I just put the fog in the kitchen til We had xhsusted the behaviour. Sometimes he just needed the 121 and keeping safe, directing away from naughty things then he was regulated again (behaviour like this comes out in my LO when tired, hungry, unsure, worried or confused). 

AAA I don't know how bright the clock is in comparison. My friend uses for her lil boy and Sawers by it but she's never had to resort to blackout blinds etc like I do.

One thing friends have used for their lil girl who us bug as age when she moved to toddler bed was gro bedding. The duvet cover zips to the fitted cot bed sheet and helps them feel more secure & not kick off the duvet. She was getting up in middle if night and appearing in bed & had always slept like a log since a baby. New sheets worked like magic. I can see this being a godsend for my LO as he hates being too cold or too hot so will wake if this happens. 
Not sure if this idea would work for you. 
X


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Thanks gertie we have blackout blinds and curtains. It took her awhile to tolerate the egg but that can be koved out of her view butccan't really do that with the clock. I haven't seen the gro bedding will be on amazon later lol more for winter than now as it at 26+ in her room with fan on windows open just can't keep it cool. Thanks


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## Poppets Mammy

AAA - I wouldn't think the Gro clock was very bright at all, don't have the egg to compare it to but I think it's a nice dim light especially when it's on the star/night function - just gives off a blue glow. Gets a bit brighter when the sun comes up and it's a yellow light but bubba would be asleep or getting ready to wake up anyway at that point. Poppet only has a little bedroom as well and if the blackout blinds down, the doors shut and only gro clock as a light then I can struggle to see if her eyes are open or not even if I sit right next to her, I sometimes end up hovering over her and staring at her face   haha. 

Xx


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## Wyxie

I have to say, I don't know anyone whose had any luck with the grow clock, but I've still been tempted to get one for Wyxling!  When kids wake up and it's light it's really hard to convince them it's not time to get up.  I think black out blinds are a much better option, to try and stop them waking.  I also find that while kids can be fine with no blankets when they drop off, usually quite hot and flustered and Bladelet and Wyxling will both kick them off, covering them while they're asleep can help because it stops them waking up when it gets cold in the morning.  Both tend to sleep better with the window open, but the cold morning breeze even on an otherwise hot night will always wake them if I don't tuck them in.

Other than that, I'm out of ideas on sleeping.  I've been very lucky with both ours that they're generally good sleepers, and although Bladelet wakes with baby stuff like teething and poorly, he's quite easy to sooth back off.  Wyxling will absolutely not go back to sleep in the morning once she's decided she's awake.  Having said that, the calmer she is, the more willing she is to doze a bit before shouting for Mummy!

Wyxie xx


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Thanks. Bubba room was 25.9 when she went to bed and 25.5 this morning. We can't leave windows open as we live in ground floor flat.  
It really is effecting her not getting 12+ hours think we are going to have to try it.
I went back in at 520 this morning and just lay on floor but by 6 she wasn't having anymore and daddy need more sleep but I up I give daddy a kiss.  Come on mummy.  I couldn't get up quick enough lol poor daddy.


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## GERTIE179

Hi AAA - have you tried a fan in her room through the night. We've found this really helpful in this weather as we can't leave Los window open either. The noise from the fan actually helps.

Just a thought x


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## wynnster

Just wanted to say that I have both the egg for dd's room and gro clock in ds's - Both have been great   

DS was waking too early a few years ago so we invested in the clock, I must say it doesn't necessarily make him sleep more, but if it's 6:30 he will lay in bed until the sunshine, now he is older and able to read the time he knows if it's a sensible hour to maybe read some books until the clock turns yellow, or until 7:30.... I have tried changing the time to later (when mummy and daddy fancy a lay in on a sunday maybe    ) but ds still gets up at 7:30 and just syas that his clock must be broken   

DD's room is very hot, we can't have any windows open either, neighbours have 4 teenage boys so you can imagine why    So in this weather she has the fan on in her room, I would also say that the noise from the fan aids her falling to sleep quicker.  When we go to bed the temperature has dropped enough for us to turn off the fan.  She slept with the temp reading 28.5 the other day   

Also, DS sleeps naked and DD just has her pull-up on   

Ps - AK - You're doing great


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Thanks everyone I think we might invest in one. 
She normally wears light short pj's mainly to make sure nappy stays on. I have a light quilt on her bed just in case but I don't think its temp waking her.  She freaks out if the fan is on but we do creep in and switch it on when she is asleep and if its cooled down abit I will switch it off before we go to bed.
Guess it is just.going to be a hope and pray situation and once she settles in bed with no rail she will start playing or staying asleep.  She looks like a ghost at moment she is so white with dark bags poor thing is sooooo tired. 
Sorry AK didn't mean to hijack xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

aaa, you hijack away, it's all good intel for everyone!  

We have a Grow clock but we haven't used it yet, worried the light might be too much and don't want to rock the already unsteady boat! 

We are keeping the dogs separate a bit more, he's not meaning to be mean, he just wants attention.  Also didn't bother to mention it to SW.  Thanks Wyxie for all the support (to everyone).  Absolutely agree, some behaviour is not suitable to be ignored!  We are changing things around in the house a bit, TV for kids is no longer the big TV in the lounge, we are now using the smaller one in the dining room which is on the wall!  It also means I can contain him in his high chair or funpod and the dogs can have some comfy sofa time in peace!  TV in the lounge is also going on the wall Monday so he can no longer reach it... remove temptation!  

Today was a bit better for tantrums and whining and last night he only woke up once, but again it was about 4:20!!  I've been poorly with a sore throat and impending cold so DH got up to him and again at 6:15, I think they finally got up around 6:45. 

We had his SW round, she seems relaxed in the extreme about everything...    We are also much brighter, we can see an end to the nightmare of no sleep, that really helps!

What I'm dreading is DH going back to work full time on Monday, as he tends to get up around 5:20 and leave around 6, this could be a potential nightmare if BB is still waking up so early because I have no idea how I will cope if we are all up from 5!  I'm just rubbish early mornings and am still finding it hard to sleep when he sleeps.  Anyhow, despite my continued whining things really are better!!!   

Sorry, I'm a bit slow in catching up and my response it all over the place and not very in-depth, still tired and feeling very run down, will perk up soon I hope!!


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Ak hope u feel better soon. Dh works shifts so I totally understand where u r coming from about early starts they are hard.  Can hubby maybe get dressed downstairs to reduce noise. My hubby is useless and being quiet and he has a habit of switching lights on and off I am sure it would be better to leave the ones he needs on as changes in light is so disturbing.  Find something BB likes doing that means u can just cuddle and have some quiet time. We will all be here to help if we can xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Oh man! Asleep at 7 last night, that was good, went down not too bad (still on the sofa) then he slept right through until 04:30 but then wouldn't go back to sleep (KJ, we've put a sofa in his room, I lead on it and he was quiet but every time I try to get out of the room he gets up, I don't think he was ever asleep), eventually he got upset when I tried to put him back down (yet again) at 06:00 and then had a huge meltdown, proper temper tantrum, screaming and screaming, DH kept putting him back to bed, he kept screaming, in the end we gave up about 20 minutes ago and here we are.  Should we have kept letting him scream?  It didn't seem like it was going to prove anything apart from make him ill. He sounds like a wild animal, our poor little dog (the one that sleeps upstairs) was trembling! 

I don't understand this waking up at 04:30 (give or take 10 mins), that's 3 mornings on the trot now.  I think he's too young for the grow clock yet but we might have to try it...     It doesn't get light so what can we do to get him past that hurdle?  Apart from going to bed at 8:30 and getting up at 4:30, which is really not something I want to do, I'm at a loss.


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## GERTIE179

((Hugs AK))

Our Lil boy was a 5am waker until he fully settled, then it moved til 5.30, 6, and now is between 615 & 730 (mostly 630). My advice is to continue on as you are - you're doing great. If you start getting up at 5 you really will start sleeping at his nap! I agree I wouldn't let him scream its too early & if distressed its not helping. 

Even now my LO gets very distressed if I leave room before he's asleep but now I know him better its a panic that I'm not coming back. If he's ok then I try it but only let him scream for a min (its a diff scream as he's not happy I'm going against what he wants but its still blood curling), then he sits back down in cot and on/off grizzles but I can shhh from hall or my bed til he goes to sleep. But that's only been since this heat as it was too sticky for him to fall asleep on me which he had been doing til then.

For the 5am starts I used to just bring LO into the spare bed with me u til his body got used to waking later (plus he and I benefitted from more sleep as he was still waking at done point in night then but as long as I got 5:6hours of unbroken sleep I could cope. But if we went downstairs at 5 or 6 then it was a horrid day. This was about 4-5weeks at home as LO wouldn't have coped with that intimacy before then.
It's not great advice but it got us through this difficult stage. Now I sometimes do it when he's some at 6 even tho he doesn't sleep as hes had all his rest but he enjoys the snuggle time til about 645/7 when his tummy takes over.

Oh another thing, has BB had enough to eat for bedtime? I found giving LO pasta or chicken dinners really helped a restful night - the first full 12 hr sleep was after a roast dinner out as her eaten a lot. Feel asleep in car seat even though it was 6 so went home, put fresh nappy & pjs on and off he slept til 7. 

We also decided not to feed LO til after 630 as he had food issues and was rarely full thus feeding him too early his tummy dictated when he woke. My boy has an internal clock that Rolex would be proud of!! This helped (but obviously not if he was genuinely hungry).

Ps I found DH going back to work scary but it helped our routine & sleep. Weekends we kept same routine but one of us would take over & let the other get a lie in if needed. But it kept LO waking/sleeping at same times.

HTH
X


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Ak I truly think it will just get better over time he just needs you there. Try  not to read anything in to it. Think u might just have to stay in room from 430 and Ssshhh mummy staying until he gets more settled. It still is really early days you have done a fab job to get to this point.  Have u read back and seen how bad things were just to show u how well u have done. It really is just a case of constant reassurance at this stage. Xx


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## Daddyboo (Paul)

I don't know whether this will help at all but I just read the review for the Gro-Clock on Amazon and there's a really useful post...



> 1,028 of 1,035 people found the following review helpful
> 5.0 out of 5 stars To sleep, perchance to dream... THIS WORKS! 9 Nov 2010
> By Phoz
> 
> This product totally works, my son is only 22 mths old, but 5 days later it had completely changed his waking times from 4am to 6am! And 9 days in, he's now consistently waking up between 6.15 - 6.30am. Below is how I did it -
> 
> My 22 mth old son has always been a bit of a challenging sleeper, but recently it was just getting ridiculous. 4am starts told me that something needed to be done (not least of all because my husband was away, so I was doing all the early morning starts!) Anyway, I invested in a groclock after a friend recommended one. I have to say, I was a bit dubious, my son is only 22 mths old, and I wondered if he'd actually understand what was going on.
> 
> The first day I got it, we read the accompanying book a couple of times, then I spent 3 x 5min sessions with him running through the demo mode, so we saw the sun wink (bye bye Mr Sun!) and turn into the star (Night night! Sleeping time! - we pretended to go to sleep) then into the sun again (Morning Mr Sun! Get up! Get up! - we leapt up and danced around). We did this until it seemed like he understood what was going on. I ambitiously set the sun to come up at 6am, and waited to see how it would go.
> 
> Anyway, needless to say, day 1 he woke up at 4am, I went into his room, sat with him, and just kept saying, no, sleeping time, we need to wait until the sun gets up (I'd put some toys in his cot for him to play with, and I encouraged him to do so). After an hour of this, he was beginning to lose the plot, so I subtly changed the clock to the sun, and waited for him to notice. When he did, I made a HUGE fuss of him - yes, yes clever boy, it IS the sun. Let's get up!!
> 
> Day 2, woke up at 4.10am. This time I gave it a bit longer before I went in to sit in his room, then again encouraged him to read his books, play with his cars etc. I talked to him about having to wait for Mr Sun, and didn't stay in the whole time, went in, reassured, then went out. At no time did I get him out of his cot, I just encouraged him to wait for the sun.
> 
> Day 3, woke up at 5.40am. This time, because it was only 20 mins until he had to get up, I didn't go in at all, just talked to him from outside the door about having to wait for the sun.
> 
> Day 4, woke up at 4.55am. I was a bit discouraged, felt like we were going backwards, but this time I didn't go in, just called out to reassure him, and encourage him to play with his cars, read his books, and wait for the sun. Again, I constantly reassured him if he called out or cried, but I didn't go in.
> 
> Day 5, woke up at 5.45am, and played until the sun came up
> 
> Day 6, woke up AFTER THE SUN!! 6.01am!!
> 
> Day 7, woke up at 6.35am
> 
> Day 8, woke up at 6.16am (I then took the plunge and changed the wakeup time from 6.00am to 6.15am)
> 
> Day 9, woke up at 5.40am, but didn't cry, then put himself back to sleep until 6.20am. He has NEVER put himself back to sleep before.
> 
> My top tips for success are
> 
> 1) Decide you really want to do this before you start. You'll need an iron will to keep going even when bubs is protesting.
> 
> 2) Once you really decide you want to do it, do NOT get the child out of bed until 'Mr Sun' comes up. I found it was ok to go in and sit with them, encourage them to play in their bed / cot, reassure them etc. If the child really starts to lose it, I would press the button to bring on the sun for the first day, or the second at a real push, but try not to let them see you doing it, otherwise they'll associate you with the sun - and it's key they understand the sun comes out independently of Mummy or Daddy coming into their room! Similarly, try not to go in if you can possibly help it.
> 
> 3) Set the wake up time as their regular wake up time for the first day, then move it by 15 mins each day until you get to your desired time. I didn't do this, and think it would probably have helped.
> 
> 4) Think about what you do with your child when they wake up. I thought about it and realised that we were letting him watch telly (mainly because we were so wiped!!), but actually this was reinforcing the early waking, as he was leaping out of bed, so excited about watching Peppa Pig! By not allowing him to watch telly until I was preparing dinner, I removed this association. So now, it's a cup of milk and independent play until 7am, when he has breakfast.
> 
> 5) Spend a bit of time each day for the first week running through the demo mode with very exaggerated actions and enthusiasm (e.g. loud snores for sleeping, big leaps for getting up). Make it fun. And do it until your child understands. Reinforce it whenever you're reading any book, most kids books have pictures of suns or stars somewhere in them - point at it, and say what is this? Child will say 'sun, stars' etc - say, yes, it's the sun, star - what does that mean? Child - wake up, sleep. You - yes, that's RIGHT. Clever boy/girl - when we see the SUN we WAKE UP!, when we see the STAR we SLEEP.
> 
> 6) Be consistent - be consistent, be consistent. Don't do it unless you're going to see it through, as your child will absolutely test you to see if you're serious. So this is why it helps to set the wakeup time close to their actual wakeup time to begin with - it's much easier to reinforce if you don't have to deal with an hour of protesting to begin with!


http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Gro-Company-HJ008-Gro-Clock/dp/B002APJCNE/ref=sr_1_1?s=baby&ie=UTF8&qid=1374910353&sr=1-1&keywords=gro+clock


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## wynnster

AK    See the positives, you have become his comfort    The fact he was only distressed when you went to leave shows what he wanted was YOU!  It WILL get better, but you're really early days, I would continue as you are doing but resign yourself to the fact that from 4:30 (or whenever he wakes) you'll be on the sofa in his room.  Give the grow clock a try, set it for 6:30 and when it is time, you're there to show him 'look it's sunshine, lets get up'.  
He may also just be an early riser    My friends son has always been a 5am boy    He would then go lay in their bed until time to get up.

Children do seem to have an internal clock that they naturally wake up at, my ds is 6:30/7 always has been his 'usual' time, dd's is 8/8:30 and it really doesn't matter what time they go to bed, that's the time they get up, even when they have silly late nights of 10/11pm if we're out, they're still up at their normal time.......
xxx


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## snapdragon

My lo woke at about 4.30 for the first few months, though not every night. I would go in and sleep in his room. We would get up about 6. I'm afraid 6 is not an unusual waking time for toddlers. Lo has gradually moved to waking around 6.45. I think the early waking is just about their distress with the upheaval and it will get better. If my lo wakes in the night now he can settle himself. I have been in to check on him and woken him and he just looks at me and goes back to sleep. You could try sleeping in his room when he wakes in the night and not leaving. I would give up trying to get him to go back to sleep from around 6.


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Thanks Paul.  I was just curious how bright it was before spending the money a few of the reviews say it is very bright.
We had a much later start but we think she had tried to take her nappy off at some point during the night and she was soaked as was bed. Bless her. She had a massive fall out of bed at 9 kicked dolls house and wardrobe door and didn't bat an eyelid when I picked her up. My mum just chuckled as I used to do it all the time.


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## MummyAuntieKatie

I have resigned myself to the 4:30 sofa routine, also think we might try the groclock.  Am hoping I can sleep a little on the sofa and stop him from actually getting up until 6-6:30, so he learns that it's getting up time then.  Also hoping things might get better when the nights are longer (sorry to wish away the summer, although it's pee-ing down here already).  

I'm deff going to read back over the posts!  I recall feeling so utterly helpless at the start!


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## aaa is a MUMMY

It really does sound like it is the way to go. I know its not ideal but if it works and reduces stress go with it. You have made massive steps in a very short time stick with it. Xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Hmm, technically BB went to sleep in his own bed tonight, all be it by default!  He woke up on the way upstairs so DH continued to put him to bed, there were a few whines but DH told him it was bedtime and to go to sleep and tried to leave, that didn't work but, DH went to sit on the sofa, BB settled down and dropped off in his own bed!   

No clue if we can achieve that again from an earlier point, as he was obviously half asleep already, but it's a start!  Now, fingers crossed for a good night...


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## Wyxie

Indeed! 

Fingers crossed.  Might be a bit cooler tonight so that should help.


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## GERTIE179

Indeedy its a start. Ps when I had to resort to LO in spare bed with me then I would get up an hour later & move him back. Again reinforcing the idea that his bed was best (and tbh he does prefer his own bed). 

Good luck it may be a good way to start it just letting him settle a bit first do he's sleepy

X


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## MummyElf

AK not sure if this will help, but as our LO has settled more, she has woken more at night - not sure if this is because she was ill or just waking and wondering where we were.

I tried a couple of methods - taking her downstairs to settle then returning her asleep / tough love. Neither worked and just made her hysterical. So I agreed with DH I would go to her straight away as soon as she cried (I'd been leaving it a few minutes to see as sometimes she just cries for about a second then goes back to sleep). I would cuddle her briefly if she was upset, shushing and hugging and reassuring. I then put her back in her cot leading to hysteria. Walking away did not work, she freaked. So I sat with her, singing quietly or not making a peep. It's a bit like the 'sleep lady shuffle' technique. I have to sit where she can see me, so right by the cot. I've not had to stay until she is asleep but rather until she is happy and reassured. The first night this took half an hour. She loves, I have discovered, being tucked in. So I tucked a blanket round her, sat down and sung. I tucked her in about 4-6 times. After half an hour, although still awake, she was happy I was meeting her needs and let me leave the room. She woke again shortly after, this time it took around 10 mins before I could leave. The third time that night I simply walked in, tucked her in, and walked out. I did all of this as serenely as possible - singing, smiling, reassuring.

Last night she woke again crying, I went up immediately, tucked her in, and left. Back to sleep without a peep.

She was initially wanting to play at night and that was annoying! Pointing to toys and 'ooohing' as soon as we got her out of the cot, having been screaming blue murder seconds before.

The thing I now will not do is take her out of her room, and secondly I only lift her out of her cot long enough to calm her down - whilst she cries when I put her back, knowing it doesn't mean I'm walking out means she stops.

Obviously what works for one may well not work for another, but thought I'd share I'm case something here works for BB. A key thing in getting her to settle initially (and with my niece who is a terrible sleeper) was no interaction at all. My sister / me when babysitting would sit with her but not speak to her or stimulate her, I used to close my eyes and lay beside her. After much trying to get up / whacking in the face, she'd give up when we wouldn't react and drop off / settle enough to go back down. I was thinking about moving all toys out of LOs room at one stage. Her FC said to keep her room as her sleepy place and do all routines downstairs (milk, stories etc) then take her up, pop her down, and exit quickly. It's worked, but that's because our LO was 'trained' for us by FC but unfortunately you are the ones who will have to train BB.

I know you'll crack it, and frankly, from the posts you've made huuuuuuuuge leaps in the last couple of weeks!

Keep going xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Well, it was a good night last night!  We had a slight stirring at 10:30 but only a tiny cry and he went back to sleep on his own, then he woke at about 01:20 and DH got him back to sleep in about 10 mins.  He seems to do a little sleep walking, we find him out of bed but I'm not convinced he's always fully awake.  Then he slept until 6am!!!  DH went in and they dozed on the sofa for a bit and got up just before 7.  

Then we had a good morning, walking the dogs, followed by lunch and a nap of about an hour and cuddles after but this afternoon he was in tantrum mode, it was awful.  He had a dirty bum and had a huge meltdown when I changed him, kicking and screaming and I'm sure he put his fingers down his throat to make himself sick!!!    Anyway, we got that sorted and he was miserable all afternoon.  DH's brother popped in with his wife and kids and that meant tea was late but BB wasn't really interested anyway, ate a few bits and had fruit and a yogurt, unusual for such a good eater...  So, bath time came and it looks like he has a sore bottom!!!  No wonder he was so miserable he must be so uncomfortable and had had another poo before his bath...    I've put on sudacrem and hopefully he might feel better in the morning.  He could be cutting some back teeth, we aren't 100% sure.

Tomorrow DH goes back to work and will be leaving at 6am!  I really hope BB will sleep until 6 and then we can have an OK day.  Not lots planned but I will try to keep busy and   DH is home at a reasonable time...  

MummyElf, thanks for that.  We do the no interaction at all and it does seem to help, he is getting the idea that whilst we are there for him we won't be messing about and bed is bed.  It really seems to be working. We also have no toys in his bedroom atm, it's only for sleep, changing etc.  It's odd starting from scratch with a toddler rather than a newborn, it's the little things, I have all the same concerns as a new mom would but my baby is 2 years and 4 months old!


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## Wyxie

Really glad the sleeping is improving, it sounds like you're making lots of progress there.

I found changing the single biggest problem with Wyxling.  She would just decide that she wasn't going to be changed - it was more of a control thing than a tantrum thing with her, she would just try to get away from change mat and/or hit/kick me.  Wyxling has eczema and if I don't change her as soon as she does a poo, she will be incredibly sore.  Even just 10-15 minutes in a dirty nappy and she will crack and often bleed.  She knows this, and she wants to be changed, but she also wants the control and it's something she has control over.  The raging/tantrum would only come when I forced the issue, and didn't let her go anywhere until she was changed.

I have tried loads of different stuff, but the only solution I have found for a kick off mid-change for a big strong toddler covered in poo is to scoop the whole baby up and put them straight into the bath/shower.  Take the rest of her clothes off in the shower and just wash her down.  I don't get cross about it, I just tell Wyxling I love her and I don't want her to get sore, so it's time to clean up.  She does get very upset by it, and I don't like doing it, but I also have to say that when she's really mid-rage/tantrum it does tend to shock her out of it and bring it to a quick end.  Sometimes I've got in the shower/bath with her if she's been in a real state (or if she's covered me in poo too of course!)  Afterwards I wrap her up in a big towel - normally one of mine - for cuddles.

I tend to use sudacrem on Wyxling every day - she's always a bit red by the end of the day - but any real problems metanium is absolutely the best thing out there for nappy rash that I've found.

All the best,

Wyxie xx


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## monkeymooo

Ak sounds like you're doing brilliantly, poor BB with his sore bottom, hope it is better quickly    I hope tomorrow goes OK, one thing I have found is that things are generally alot calmer when there is only one of us around - so   you have a good day.  We are really lucky that DH is off work for a nice long stretch, but we've arranged for him to disappear regularly so it is not such a shock for everyone when he does go back to work!  One thing I have found is that it is VERY difficult to cook while LO is not being entertained, he wants to help with EVERYTHING which is not always ideal, and so chucking stuff around to get my attention commences! I think I'll be doing the batch cooking and freezing thing to avoid stress!  Unless any tips to help him to play on his own?  He came to us very happy to play independently, but recently is following me around even when I tell him I'm nipping to get something etc. and gets a bit cross when I do....

We also do the sitting by the cot to settle him thing - we have strange routine now where I put him down and leave, but he gets straight up and grizzles for 5 minutes and shouts for us and cries pathetically.  One of us then goes up, and we need to sit by his cot in view, and also do the 'no interaction' thing, but it is actually hilarious, he will hold up each of his soft toys in turn and do their noises, so 'woof' for doggie, 'raaaah' for tiger and waves them at us trying to get a reaction.  He'll then start making them wave hello at us, and all the while we are trying to look like we don't notice and like we're just dropping off to sleep ...he then, without fail, will ask for mummy (if daddy is with him) and vice versa, at which point we say, I'll just go and get mummmy / daddy, you have a little sleep, and so far this sneeky tactic has worked cos he will then drop off!  not sure how long this will work, at some point I think he will get cross when he stays awake and mummy/daddy don't appear!


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Wyxie, thanks, I think I might try sudocrem every change for a while and hope it stops any more problems.  I was contemplating putting BB in the bath because there was no way I was letting him go anywhere in the state he was in!  It must have been sore when I was cleaning his botty but I didn't notice how red it was because I was so busy fending off the huge tantrum!    Will invest in Metanium if we continue to have problems in that area!  He just woke up, I went up to see what the story was and he was sat up in bed and when I asked him to lie down he put his head at the foot end, turned him round and he's gone strait back to sleep.  Small issue with the cat coming to find me to tell me she needed some Felix but that didn't rouse him thank goodness! 

MM, I do think that it will be easier with just me as BB won't have another carer to run to.  I'm hoping one day he might even stop calling me Daddy!  lol! Have you looked at Funpods?  We got one and BB will stand in it and watch me for a while if I am cooking, making coffee etc. I got ours second had on ebay as they are quite expensive new.  The other thing we've found is that he's just starting to play in his own, but I do need to be in the same room.. Still, things are improving in that area.  BB sits up on the sofa and looks at us, like he's saying 'so, sleep time is it?  What ya gonna do if I won't lie down?'  But he goes off eventually!  I love the idea of your LO giving you the toy show!!


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## crazyspaniel

AK, apparently olive oil and cotton wool is kinder for sore bottoms than baby wipes or plain water are  
Xx


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Ak poor little man. Bubba had real issues with changing and I think it's quite common again its a security thing and to be honest it never went away. She hated having to lie down so we used pull ups although wouldn't help with a poo but made things a whole lot easier at other times. 
Mm we used to have exactly the same thing and when we didn't respond she would throw teddy over the cot saying mummy/daddy here you are tedding for you so funny. We used to say we were just going for a wee wee and we would be back never went back as she was happy with the thought we would be back. This worked until a few weeks ago as bubba is now dry during the day she realised wee wee doesn't take long. So last time I tried it she shouted mummy you doing poo poo you taking along time. Hubby and I had to bury our heads in our pillows we were laughing so much. 
We had crazy early bedtime of 430 hence why I am wide awake bless her. I think she has gone off again and she stayed in her bed result. Hubby will be up for work in an hour and mon a work day for me hope I can stay awake I think I have seen every hour zzzzzzzzz might be heard from my desk this afternoon.  
ak have a fun day xx


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## keemjay

slightly off topic..clean sore bums with soft cloth/flannel and camomile t-bag in some water..you can add a little tea tree too..


kj x


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Oh man we had a doozie last night! BB woke up at 21:30 and when I went up he was sat up in bed, then he lead the wrong way round so I picked him up and put him down properly and he went strait back off.... Then at half 22:00 he cried a little but settled himself no problem. Unfortunately at 01:30 he woke up, DH went in but after half an hour he was still awake, so I tagged him and an hour and a half later he was still awake... we ended up with me having a mini meltdown and BB finally going back to sleep at 04:30... DH was up for work at 05:30!! Anyhow DH got up and left for work and BB didn't wake until 7... Was in a foul mood all morning so we went out in the car, had a drive, did a bit of shopping etc in time to get back for lunch and a good long nap! Bit of a set back I guess but fingers crossed for later!!

Tonights tea of fish fingers, smiley faces and beans took a right beating, he polished it off to the last bean and asked for more! Then wolfed down a fairly large yoghurt! Someone at DH's work suggested he might have worms which could be making him uncomfortable at night and possible giving him a sore bum, so we've all just taken some foul banana flavoured stuff! Blurgh!


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Have u checked his teeth hun as bubba bum was raw when hers were coming and last 4 are killers apparently xx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

We haven't been able to get a good look tbh but we have been assuming that his last molars might be cutting and have been trying pain killers and teething powders. We have noticed he's been chewing his fingers and straps on the buggy too.  There's all sorts that could be making him out of sorts, not least that he's got a few mozzie bites from the garden!  Poor kid.  His legs are covered in bruises, it's been too hot for jeans but bet your bottom dollar he falls down on his knees at least once a day! lol!  I put him in jeans today and then DH popped out to the shops and thew some shorts on him (I'd changed a poopy nappy and not put his trousers back on) so of course that was when he decided to crash to his knees again!  

I ought to take calpol up with me for a night time wake-up just in case but of course it's the last thing you think of when you are half asleep and stumbling to his room in the wee small hours.  Bad mummy!


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## Wyxie

It took me ages to get into the habit of having stuff I need upstairs at night and downstairs in the day.  In the end I just gave up on the idea I'd ever remember and got two lots of things like calpol and baby bonjela and nappy cream - it all gets used in the end anyway.  I also find in the summer if they're waking upset they're normally roasting, so I put a bottle of water with as much ice as I can cram in on the upstairs window sill before I go to bed, and have a cloth out.  Wyxling in particular although she doesn't wake often will get herself into a right little state, and I find if I go in straight away with cuddles she'll often ramp up more.  Walking in and saying she must be boiling so I've brought a cold drink/cloth just seems to be less expected and quite often snaps her out of it.  Cold cloth would also help on mozzie bites if that's part of what's keeping him awake, especially if he's scratching them.

Really hoping for a better night tonight for you all.

Last year Wyxing's knees were a complete mess.  This year she seems to be doing a bit better for coordination, but she's still always covered in bruises from running full speed into things.  I used reigns a lot when we were out walking as it meant I could catch her better, but of course running round the garden and the park she inevitably managed at least one good tumble a day.


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Ak you certainly not a bad mummy.  Bubbas last ones seem to have been coming for ever. All her other teeth came in fours but the last ones just don't want to fully appear. 
Its so hard knowing what is right from wrong and worrying you are doing the right thing. Xx


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## MummyElf

I'm the same as wyxie - two lots of everything! I've got a changing mat under the sofa with a small box containing a couple of nappies, wipes etc and the same upstairs. Calpol now lives in our bedroom. In fact I feel like getting a third set for the changing bag as I'm inevitably out and wish I'd packed teething powders!

We're still learning, and frankly,I'm like a zombie at night. I get up for a wee and often almost fall back to sleep on the toilet   One of these days I'm going to drop off, fall off, and end up covered in wee with a concussion


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## GERTIE179

Ditto we have doubles (even just the mini size where we use it less).

MummyElf - calpol sachets are excellent for nappy bags. I also keep these upstairs and a spare spoon rather than another bottle that gets sticky caps if not used too often.

X


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Not had a chance to get to Lappy all day, but!!!..... da-da-daaaa, last night was great!  BB went to bed at 7, slept until 3:50 when we had a wake up but I went in, found him stood by his wardrobe, picked him up and put him back to bed and lo and behold he went back to sleep!!!!!  I got out of the room and back to bed in 10 mins and he slept until 6:45!!!  Even through DH getting up and showered and leaving for work!!   Long may that continue!  I can't say I slept much after 4 but still, it was a good night. Lunch time naps are going well too, usually asleep within 10 mins and stays down for an hour or so. 

To temper my enthusiasm (I can't let you lot off with just a good news story!) he's been whiney and clingy all day and chucked some great tantrums, I think he's feeling out of sorts although he's eating well.  He's been norty with the dogs too, chancing his arm at smacking them.  My reactions have not always been great, I shouted a couple of times but have now made a conscious effort to be calm instead, take him away from the situation and try to calmly tell him that it's not acceptable to do that.  I was really looking forward to DH getting home by the end of the day!  

Thinking I might double up on medication.  Still not sure I'll have the presence of mind to take it to his room but hey!

How do you lot cope with 2 year old teeth?  He's not a great brusher and I can't/don't want to force it, how much brushing isn't enough?  

MummyElf!  LOL!!!  I now have visions of someone falling off the loo!!  

Wyxie, this morning I put him in trousers for toddler group, I was embarrassed to take him in shorts!


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## GERTIE179

Hey AK

Things sounding very promising indeed x

Re teeth - what happens currently?
We brush before nap & bed so its part of routine. Lil man lets me brush but recently has started playing up so I let him hold a different toothbrush, toothpaste or hold the handle of his own whilst I brush. I also have a light up toothbrush for when those ideas stop working.
X


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## monkeymooo

Just a quickie as had meet up with FCs today and while LO took it (mainly ) in his stride, I am shattered with all the emotion of it!

Re teeth, one thing I've found helps is if I brush my teeth at the same time.  I let him have a bit of a chew on his brush while I brush mine in a very exaggerated way, lots of great brushy noises, lots of foam and he seems fascinated and will watch intently, then I say, now you and say 'say ahhh' to get him to open and 'smile' to do the front ones - depend on his mood an sometimes he is over it in nanosecond, but I figure it must be doing some good at least! And my teeth are super clean!

Thanks for the play pod tip btw, am watching eBay for a poss bargain! X


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## MummyAuntieKatie

With teeth we do them morning and night when we get dressed and undressed/bathed.  Someone else suggested doing ours at the same time, hadn't ocurred to us before as our stuff is in our bathroom, he uses the family bath.  Will give that a go.

Last night was pretty crap, he went down at 7:30 ish and that was fine but he woke up at 10 and cried and cried, probably upset to start with (maybe a bad dream or something) then I think he was angry that we wouldn't let him go downstairs!  Eventually he went back to sleep just after midnight.  DH was up at half 5 and BB woke up at half 6.  Not awful in the sleep stakes really but the crying was very unsettling for everyone.  We've not had such an upset night for a while, usually he's just restless and only cried for a short time.  Last night even lying in his room didn't help.  A bad night has lead to a bad day.  Smacking mummy, pulling my hair, throwing something at my friend's little boy who popped in to visit.  

I said to my friend if he was someone else's child I'd be indignant that they had raised such a horrible little boy, but I know a lot of it is frustration and anger at his loss and inability to communicate.    I gave in to his hunger though, gave him a fairly early lunch and he's down for a nap, I needed a break as much as he did!  

Maybe a bad night will be followed by a good one?    I'm going to stop moaning soon I promise, but I think it just helps to let off steam and also I can look back on this in months to come and be proud of (hopefully) how far we've come.


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## GERTIE179

Moan away AK (honestly you are not moaning!) lack of sleep us awful but added to that you have a fiery little bundle of energy as 2y olds are. Plus tiredness is felt by them too. I've been in your shoes and it so does get better but in its own time.

Best advice I received as a new parent - everything's a phase. The sleep disruption will get better but you will adjust too and you might find (like us) that anything can set you back do its easier just to think its a phase and it will pass. But get a strategy in place for bad sleep days. We go out more on those days as bring indoors just gets to us both. I also let LO go down for nap earlier for both our sakes but I don't let him sleep on as I still want him to be tired at bedtime.

I found it easier to offload to others who had been there as I felt guilty that I was sounding moany. Plus the "perfect parents" annoyed me with silly comments about leaving Los to cry etc to train them. But then I was knacked myself so probably not as poker faced as I can be lol
X


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Thank you so much Gertie, I've been telling myself all day 'it's just a phase'!  lol

Quicky so as not to hog too much time with sleep stories.  Last night was ok (10:30 wakeup, back to sleep within 20 mins (me), 2am wakeup, back to sleep in 5 mins (DH)) until the 4:30 wakeup without going back to sleep.  I stayed in his room until 6, he fought sleep all the way, Dh went to work, I stayed in room until 7 (making the point that it's not time to get up at 4:30 (6 at a push if we'd had a good sleep until then) and so have been awake since 4:30 with a very tired, miserable, tantruming 2 year old.  Bad night (early morning) lead to a truly awful day, today we've had throwing things, screaming in frustration not just BB), biting, thrashing, sticking fingers down throat)... In between we've had snuggles, cuddles and kisses too.  Nap at 9:30-11 and still he was objectionable and when SKY man hadn't turned up by 1 I put him down for another nap.  He finally slept at about 1:40 and bloody late SKY man turned up at 2:10, waking up BB and me (I'd tried to doze on sofa)... He cried, whined, kicked and screamed and generally was awful so when man left I took him for a drive (contained, air con etc) and got back at the same time as DH thank goodness!

Later he had a really bad nappy so I wonder if he's been having a bad tum, was just tired, is still teething, is generally just mourning his old life with FC etc etc, second guessing all the way...

Absolutely ducking shattered and going to bed. Shed a few tears but all through frustration, lack of sleep, a bad dream I had about Dh having an affair and leaving me etc etc (why do the upsetting feelings last so long after a bad dream?  Been trying to relate that to BB loosing his FC etc... He can't recall why but he's still upset etc)...

Bedtime for Mummy... (and still he calls me daddy!)...   

(ETA: Sorry, quickie turned into another moan fest from me)


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## GERTIE179

Lol that could've been my post a few months back. Ps my darling boy was calling me dada until a few weeks ago. At least you've had some good time in amongst that. I resorted to putting a sticker on door to say "do not ring door bell between 11-1 as that was nap time (well I almost shouted at postman one day in frustration as he rang twice just as I'd got lil man down after a particularly bad few nights).

You will get there with it all. Even if it means sleeping a kid times too just to ensure you are rested.
X


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## MummyElf

I disconnected our bell and put up a sign saying please knock gently (some people hammer it down!). The dogs bark everytime someone comes to the door, but they stop within seconds with the help of a treat. It drove me mad initially because our postman comes at lunchtime when she's napping. Now I leave the gate open so that doesn't set the dogs off and by the time they realise he's here, he's gone. We were broken into at a previous house, they were they, we were at work, and since then they are rigorous about guarding the house. Now LO is here, they take baby guarding very seriously   Our boy dog spends the evening up outside her door before bed most nights..initially we joked that it was so she didn't escape and ruin our evening


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

Hi honey, how's things going? 

Hugs xxxxx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Hey ladies, thanks for asking Emma.

The last 3 nights have been MUCH better!!! We've had 2 nights of only 1 wakeup from which he was easily put back to sleep and after which he slept until 6/6:45 and last night, deep breath, he slept through from 7:30 until 5:50 and the only wakeup didn't need us to go in at all!!  

Things are so much better!  We still have some epic tantrums but they are less frequent because he is sleeping so much better and of course we feel better too!  Long may it continue!  

Thank you all so, so much for being there for me these past 4 weeks, yes, it's been 4 weeks since BB came home!  We feel like he is really now starting to settle and show us the real cheeky boy he is!

xxxx


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Lovely news katie. Tantrums are all part of the fun bubba has truly got a gold medal for killer tantrums and the best ones are always in the worst possible place. Keep smiling x


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## Wyxie

Really glad things are looking up, it sounds like you've done brilliantly despite being shattered for the last four weeks.  

It's amazing how fast it passes.  I realised today it's 6 weeks since Bladelet came home.


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

Fab news ak really really hope the sleeping through continues  xxxx


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## GERTIE179

Excellent news AK!! Well done on reaching 4weeks.
Hope it continues x


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## keemjay

well done to YOU AK for making it work through some very trying and tough times. Mummy Gold star!!!


kj x


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Keemjay, your great idea of the sofa in the bedroom is working great!  He's up there now having his nap and last night he fell asleep there before being moved into his bed.  

We've had some good nights, for example last night with only one wake up at about 9:30 he slept until half 6, but a couple of nights he's been waking up around 4 and seems to find it hard to drop off again which is just hard!    

I spoke too soon, he's woken up too early from his nap, DH has gone up to see if he can get him off again for a wee bit...  

Sometimes things seem easier, sometimes we have hard days but I think the good stuff is out weighting the bad a bit maybe??     Today hasn't been great as he's been really grumpy since DH got up and screamed the place down when our lovely hairdresser tried to sort his hair out....


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## wynnster

fab fab news AK    Well done to you and dh for helping your tiny BB settle    It will feel like he has been with you forever but in the future you will look back and realise how soon into everything 4 weeks is.  He has done amazingly well and is obviously showing signs of settling.  He will certainly keep you on your toes and as soon as you think he's cracked it, he will throw in a few sleepness nights    

Keep up the good work


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## keemjay

well done AK..sounds like things are turning, bit by bit..yay at falling asleep on the sofa in his room  he most def sounds like he's settling down. 
4am starts sound nightmarish..would do my head in completely, we were SO lucky ours never did that..really dont know what to suggest for that except just make sure he get a really good nap that day to catch up, and you try and get some zz's too..
you really are doing well..


kj x


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## Wyxie

Really glad to hear things are going the right way.  Getting over the sleeping nightmares and trying to get some good time with your baby are the main thing right now.  Everything else can come in time, I try to tell myself that anyway on the bad days anyway!

The early starts are a bit of a nightmare.  Unfortunately, some kids are just like that, but being completely unsettled won't help.  I suspect that it's something you'll manage to tackle as the mornings get darker, and hopefully by next summer things will be easier. 

Wyxling is waking me early again at the moment.  She's been unsettled since my husband started a new job and took the car to work (he used to get the train).  Things like this can cause a huge amount of anxiety with Wyxling, and when she's anxious, she tends to snap awake in the mornings and instantly call for me.  When she's more settled she'll doze for a little while.  Once, and only once, she got up and played with her train set until we woke up and went in.  That was just before Bladelet was placed and I'm dreaming of the days we get back to that stage again, while often thinging that maybe I imagined it!

I really do think that now hubby's back at work if you can get into a regular routine of certain things at certain times of day, it will start to help him calm and then sleep more.  Breaking bad habits is hard though, especially falling asleep on the sofa.  Wyxling came with terrible sleep habits and it took almost 11 months for me to have any decent bedtimes with her, and it's still edgy, and she almost always kicks off before I put her down at nap time - it exhausts me and I almost always have a 10 minute lie down after.  That sounds so hopelessly naff, but that kick off always really takes it out of me, and because I have to wind Wyxling down, by the time I've done that I just need to sleep.  I don't normally actually sleep because I've too much to do, but that's generally my only time each day I get 10 minutes to myself before I get into the never ending housework!.  

Bladelet's sleeping habits weren't great, but he was so much younger and basically just so chilled out, he is content in his own company when he feels safe, so it's been really easy (so far touch wood) getting him into a good pattern.  Helped by him being young enough to love his cot mobile and he absolutely loves his bedroom.  When we got it ready before he came I wanted it to be nice and hubby thought I was making a fuss about something he just wouldn't care about, but for whatever reason I do not know, he loves it in there and loves us playing together in there.  At bedtime I sing him some songs, put that on, and then blow him kisses (he loves this, Wyxling's been teaching him to "catch" them, he doesn't understand, but does the actions, and waving goodnight.  It's so lovely to say goodnight to him and leave him with a big beaming smile.  He's up and awake and wanting to play, unless he's been short on naps, but goes to sleep within 5 minutes of the cot mobile finishing.

I wibbled, I have no idea where I was going, but I'm really glad things are getting a little easier. 

Also, on the sleep subject, I had two short courses of sleeping tablets (7 days each time, although not used consecutively) a few months into Wyxling's placement, and it really did me a huge amount of good.  I was having some fairly bad back pain at the time as well from an accident, and dealing with Wyxling tired was just not working.  I find if I get one really good night that and caffeine can keep me going for the next few days!  I'm not advocating it because it's better not to, but I also think it's something that people feel is a real no go area (and they are addictive so it is a short term solution) when sometimes, in unusual situations, it's really not that bad!  (I also had that on my medical when we reapplied and it was briefly discussed, but not considered an issue.)


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Well, all I can say is I had the best nights sleep last night that I've had for about 7 weeks!!  I put in my earplugs and switched off, DH agreed it was his night for getting up and that I was to have a lie in this morning and I slept all night, apart from a pee break at 2am.  BB slept from 7 until 6:10 too and didn't wake up all night!! Whoop!!!

 

Things are starting to settle into a rhythm, and the more he grows, the more his language improves, the less whinging and crying and temper tantrums we'll have so I know things can only get better!!   

Wyxie, wibble away, I love to read your posts.  I do think if I can't relax enough to sleep well then tablets might be a short term answer although we have been using Kalms night time pills as well as rescue remedy just to try to help us chill out a bit.  

Long may we not have 4am wake-ups!  Those are what I really struggle with and I have really lost my temper a couple of times, not good and not BB's fault at all but I'm obviously just not thinking strait at that time of the morning.  I have also taken to bathing him in the morning as well as DH doing it at night.  If he's up really early it gives us something to do to pass the time and I can potter about while he pours water all over the place...


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

How's things honey?
Been thinking about you xxxx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

So much better!!!  We had an accidental breakthrough when I got annoyed at yet again being stuck on the sofa at 4am in his bedroom, unable to leave, and I just walked out.  He didn't create!  When I went back (I'd gone to get my dressing gown and phone) he was on the sofa but I put him back into his bed and then sat on the sofa and realised I was being an idiot, so I left again and closed his door, he cried but I told him to go back to sleep as it was night time and not time to get up and I walked away.... HE WENT TO SLEEP!!!!  When he woke again, too early, I called out from my bed 'Go back to sleep, it's not time to get up', and HE DID!!!

So then we had a couple if nights with short wake-ups where we went in, reassured him and left, stood outside and reassured him, going back in if necessary but never staying and it's working.  We had a couple nights of all night sleeping and then going back to bed if he wakes up too early and things are really settling down! I really hope this continues!  I think he might sleep on the sofa some mornings, and if I tell him it's not time to get up sometimes I go in to find him chatting to himself  lying on the sofa too.  We are going to put him into a full size bed, see if that helps him want to use it rather than the sofa but tbh, as long as he's happy and sleeping I'm not too concerned where he does it! 

Thank you to you all for your wonderful support!


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Fabulous well done  you x x


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## MummyAuntieKatie

(pasted from the Diary entry on the other thread)

Well, this could go one of two ways!! Bluebird is upstairs and I think, after some kicking off, he is in his new big bed having his milk and story, we are hoping he likes it enough to ditch the sofa!! We shall see! The bed is where the sofa used to be and the sofa is still in the room but is against the wall where his old toddler bed used to be, we managed to arrange it all so that we didn't need to move any more furniture so less disruption! Fingers crossed!!!!!!

I really got the idea that he didn't like his old bed. I don't suppose we'll ever know for sure, maybe it reminded him of his time in FC and he's seemed keen to ditch old associations, maybe it was too small and he does fidget a lot, who knows...? Perhaps he just liked the idea of sleeping on the sofa and he can still do that if he likes, when winter comes we'll have to make sure the room is warm and perhaps that there is a blanket on there in case he still gets out of bed...

Tonight could be interesting!

Read more: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=308272.80#ixzz2cuUc3Mtt


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

Yay fantastic your doing an amazing job honey well done you xxxx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Emma, how are you doing?  I'm so sorry, it's hard to keep up with everything, you know how it goes! lol xx


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## Emma-is-a-mummy

Hi honey, 

I'm doing really good thankyou can't believe he's been home almost 11 weeks it feels like forever. 
We have hard times when he's teething but other than that we're doing good  

So glad bb is settling better and your getting some sleep, fingers crossed his new big boy bed works tonight and he sleeps through. 

Little man gets me up at 6 every morning so by lunchtime I feel like its been a full day lol.

Big hugs and I've got my fingers crossed for a good night. 

Xxxxxx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

(Pasted from Diary)

Well will wonders never cease!?  BB slept really well in his new big bed, never looked to go to the sofa once DH got him to realise he was going to read to him and give him his milk all in the lovely new bed!  Played around a bit, every time DH left the room BB got up, DH went back in, BB ran back to his bed... that went on about 10 times but the last 3 times DH looked back in BB was in bed!!  I checked when we went up at around 10:15 and he was sound asleep in his bed all tucked up under his feather duvet! He did wake up once, at 4am, but DH went in, lead him back down (he wasn't out of bed, bonus) and left with no fuss.  BB then slept until 7 and even stayed in bed an extra half an hour chatting when I told him it was too early....   

I have just taken him up for his nap and he's gone to sleep in his bed at lunch time for the first time ever!!!    Looks like anther breakthrough!  

Next step will be to get him to go up, have his story and milk and let us leave without any fuss... that might take a little longer but I think we are on the right track for sure!!


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