# Stopping Bottle at bedtime and 1-2 times during the night



## skyblu

Hi Ladies,

I have not posted on this sight before as we have only had lo 2 weeks.
Lo bedtime routine was a nightmare in fc placement and made it clear to both our and her SW that will be the first thing that would be changing and also surprised that her SW hadn't told her fc that her bedtime routine was not exceptable.
Lo has only just turned 2 in February and her bedtime routine in placement was sleep when you drop which was usually around 9.30-10.30pm!!!!
She also woke up around 2.00am and would go from her bed to fc bedroom and go into a travel cot they had in there for her and have a bottle of milk (around 5floz) and would wake and have the same again around 5.00am she then would be up around 6.30-7.00 am in the morning. She would also have 5floz of milk around 10.00pm if she hadn't slept by then, so that is a total of 15floz of milk every night.
Lo would also have an hrs nap in the morning again with 5 floz of milk. This milk is a prescription as there is a question mark as whether she is dairy and soya intolerant (neocate active, which replaces the vitamins and nutrients she needs from dairy and soya).
I am seeing her pediatrician in April.

Since she has been with us she goes down at 7-7.30pm and wakes up between 12.00-3.00 and insits on a bottle then goes straight to sleep.
Then she will wake again at 4.00 - 5.00 and insists on bottle again and then is up at 6.30- 7.00am ( sorry got to go she has just woken up)

As I was saying..........she went down tonight at 7.20pm and she as already woken up at 10.00pm but is very unsettled tonight and she hasn't had a nap today!!!!!!!!!!! DH is in with her with another bottle!!!!!!!!!!
We never take her out of the cot and she does settle quickly except for tonight!!!!!!
Just wondering how long do we give in with the bottle and should she really have a bottle at this age, we have only given in to it as she has been through a lot lately and it is still early days but the broken sleep is killing us and the early mornings.
Her sleep pattern seems to be every 3-4 hrs.
Given how she was at placement, she is better but she doesn't seem to have enough sleep.
She gets up at 6.30-7.00 am and by 11.00 11.30 she ready for another nap but she fights it and doesn't usually given until 2.00pm and then I have to wake her up at 3.30 the latest or she wont settle at 7.00- 7.30.
There has been a few days where she hasn't had a nap like today or she has had a good nap for 2hrs and goes to bed at around 8.00-8.30 like she did last night(we had visitors) and the pattern was exactly the same and she was still up at 7.15am.

Any advice would be greatly received, oh and yes I have tried watering down the milk but she knows and cries until she gets the real thing!!!!

A very tired Skyblu.


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## keemjay

very quickly as I'm just off to bed..
congatulations on your new little one  


yes waaaay too much milk going on there..clearly its a habit/comfort...I was going to say water milk down till I read your last bit   


Would she just have less milk..like only 3 oz for instance..and if you diute the milk VERY slowly over the course of weeks, like 10 mls at a time you might get it by her?
I would try and  keep the naps..less naps doesnt necessarily mean she will sleep better at night. in my book sleep breeds sleep..and my 2 still napped alot when they were 4 and 6   if she needs a bottle to nap late morning and it gets her sleeping, and gives you a break then I would keep that bottle (again trying to water down very slooowly) better if she sleeps when she is tired than fight it for hours and then you having to wake her  


she has got a very ingrained routine going on there and I think you're just going to have to try and ease the change very gently..by the way 6.30/7 is not esp early..but i appreciate the broken nights are very very hard!


just to finish...with my school teacher head on..you say she went to bed late as you had visitors. personally i wouldnt be having visitors in the house yet (at all) and absolutely definitely not at bedtime, especially as sleeping is the area that you are struggling with..last thing you, or she needs is extra people about whilst you get through this..ultimately its less about the milk but her security with you as you try and change this routine together..


kj x


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## GERTIE179

Skyblu - you are almost describing my LO when he moved in except he did have a good FC routine that we kept to. Unfortunately the move just unsettled him and he went back to baby cycles if sleep (toddlers sleep in 3-4hour cycles but when settled will not really wake at the bed of each cycle. It's took us a few weeks but he is now sleeping 12hrs straight through til 630/7 almost every night (SW visits disturb him and sleep reverts!)
We kept up bottles but he was waking more and I felt it was starting to become a habit rather than comfort (although the milk reassured LO that food would always be provided -he has food issues).

The below link shows the great advice I received. We kinda watered down, then onto water v v quickly. He now goes down after falling asleep in my arms next to his cot or gets sleepy in arms then I put him down and completly off bottles. he has milk disnstairs before nap & bed then brush teeth and cuddke/rock next to cot. It's done masses for building our bond and he's really settled so much more (he actually appears relaxed compared to the first few weeks)
Also meant to say its so difficult to change a routine but you have made great progress from what she was on so u r doing a great job. I would also echo KJs advice (she's my guru!!). Re visitors and not let anything disrupt your routine.
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=302163.0
X


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Skyblu Congratulations sounds like u have had some great advice already and u r doing a fab job.  Sleep does get easier bubba njst wouldn't settle then when she was awake during the night it was for hours. She now sleep 12+ hours every night and if she sleeps during day maybe only once or twice a week now it is normally for an hour plus and still sleeps all night.  I have been expecting problems as I had another op.few weeks ago but no touch wood. I lived on lucazade and choc for weeks actually probably months but small steps makes huge progress.


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## Anjelissa

Hi skyblu,

You are doing brilliantly and from all you've described you are already successfully making progress with improvements to her routine   

I can see the others have already given great advice and covered most of what I would have said, we very slowly diluted the milk a bit, until we eventually got little man used to a better routine with when and how much was given. 

We had a similar problem to start with as lo was put to bed at fc's with his bottle and left with it, he then woke around 2.30am and again at 4.30am wanting more. He was also given more when he woke a bit later around 6am as she mentioned to us, 'if he wakes really early just give him a little milk and he'll go back to sleep again for a while'.  Whilst we kept everything as close to fc's routine in the early days, like you there were things that didn't sit right with us and we gradually tweaked them until his routine was how we thought it should be. It wasn't long before his last milk was the one on our laps downstairs with a story and no milk being left with him in the cot. 
We also managed to get to a point where he learnt that he wasn't going to be given milk whenever he woke up and then began to sleep through until about 7am.
Since moving to his bigger bedroom he has now gone back to waking about 5.45am  but we're working on that again now (this morning we had a lie-in until 6.15am!  ). 

You'll find that with a lot of things, although you'll crack something, eg sleeping, somewhere down the road it'll go backwards again for some reason or another.
I think the key to getting the routine right in the first place is definitely go slowly with the adjusting from fc's routine and then before you know it you'll be where you want to be  

As with everything the tiredness is a killer, we're feeling a little like that lately with the early mornings, but I suppose it's all good practise for when our next lo joins us   

Things will slot into place and it gets easier day by day, she may resist to even the smallest of tweaks you make to her routine to start with but ultimately it will all add to her growing sense of security once her routine is nice and regular and as it should be  

I hope you get a little more sleep soon   

Anj x


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## E3021

Hi,
Just a quickie to say that with my youngest we haven't watered bottles down, instead we've reduced the quantity, very slowly - she's now 14 months and has two 4oz bottles a day. Have recently dropped an afternoon bottle and she hasn't missed it, replaced with water and a snack.
She is a greedy girl and has a big bowl of porridge before bed to help her sleep through. We dropped the middle of the night bottle at 12 months by going cold turkey after reducing it we went from 4oz to nothing as water didn't work for her. It took a week and then she SLT through.

Our other DD is just over two and she still has a daytime nap of at least one hour. She sleeps for at least 12 hours every night and my health visitor reckons the daytime nap helps her to sleep so well at nighttime as she is not overtired.

She has no bottles, just cows milk in a beaker at breakfast and at tea time.

Hope these snippets help you - along with everyone else's advice.

Good luck!


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## thespouses

We also reduced the amount in bottles when we wanted to drop nighttime feeds (though at a much younger age - I do want to go and shake sense into some of these FCs for you all!). Also we found we can extend the period with a dummy.

He used to wake at 7 (don't be jealous now!) and then get dressed, downstairs, cereal, milk, but was getting so hungry breakfast was a screaming match. We now bring him his cup in bed before dressing and breakfast because he IS genuinely very hungry but if he wakes before our current correct getting up time (which is still 7, but you decide when yours is) it's a case of ssh ssh, here's your dummy again, walk out.  As many times as you need to. If they are genuinely distressed, a cuddle is probably more necessary than milk - at around 6 months they should be fine for at least 6 hours if not much longer, without milk.

Incidentally look at the advice about bottles on Gertie's thread too. Bottles with teats should not really be used past 6 months.


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## crazyspaniel

No advice to add really x just keep going you know where you need to be with your routine, you will get there in the end and I'm sure LO will be much happier for it xx


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## peacelily

Thespouses...as far as I'm aware you're ok up to age 1 with teated bottles - or has the advice changed?


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## skyblu

Thank you ladies for replying.

As far as the teated bottle goes I believe this is because of the lactose in milk but lo's milk does not contain this as she is intolerant to all dairy and soya and the powder milk she is prescribed does not contain sugar just the vitamins she is not getting from dairy or soya.

I do believe this pattern is down to comfort and habit and we have stopped her having the bottle during the day now for 2 days and this why she is not having her nap during the day. Like one of you said I also believe the nap in the day does help to have a better night sleep but we have only seen this on one action where she slept until 8.30 am but still woke up 3 times during the night!!!
As I have previously said she have no problem at all with going to bed, she is happy to go and goes awake.
She has a bath, then a story with the bottle and then she is taken to bed and is asleep within minutes.
I just wish I knew why she is waking up 2-3 times and demanding the bottle, I do believe it is more of a habit than anything.
Last night she went to bed at 7.20 and was asleep within 5 minutes woke up again at 9.50 tried and not give her the bottle but would not settle, so gave a watered down version which she threw at me and said NO in the end we gave her a normal milk but only half the amount and she slept straight away, she woke up again at 12.40am and had the same amount (4floz) I firstly tried soothing her and rubbing her back which has worked a few times. She then woke up agins at 2.45am but I didn't get up this time as I could tell it was just a bit of a moan and she settled herself within 2 minutes, I do try and stick to a 5 minutes rule and not go straight to her.
I know some of you have advised get her out the cot for a cuddle and rocking her, I just think that is asking for  disaster and start another habit so I don't think I will be doing that and I don't really think that is what she wants as when she wants to get up 5.45am she puts her arms out to come out so I don't think that is what she wants.

Today again she hasn't slept as I wouldn't give her a bottle but I do give her rice milk in her big girls cup which she does take after a little tantrum. I think as she has always had what she wants when she wants it that is another routine that she has to get used to.
It is early days and I do think that maybe will are being a little hard on her but at the same time she needs to learn routine and boundaries before it is too late and turns into a little spoilt madam.
She went off to sleep at 7.30 again tonight, so as you see going to bed is not the problem, it is staying asleep.
Tomorrow is a new day and I do believe she most certainly needs to have a nap during the day and will be trying the watered down milk in her beaker tomorrow and see if that works and also I made an appointment to see her HV on Thursday to see what she says.
Even though last time I saw her she said to keep going with the bottle as did her SW!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks again for your advice and wish me luck for a quite night 

Skyblu.xxxxx


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## crazyspaniel

Skyblu, was just thinking if you want to see if a daytime nap will help with nighttime, will she sleep in pushchair/ car? I know it's not a long term solution but if it means she sleeps better at night may be worth a try in the short term to try and break the cycle x I'm not saying that you should do this every day but maybe if you try it once or twice it could help?!
Good luck


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## skyblu

10.00 And already lo is awake wanting bottle, dh is with her now trying to sooth her without it. Not working yet!!!

Crazyspaniel- Yes I take her in the pushchair twice a day to walk the dog, sometimes she goes off sometimes she doesn't like yesterday and today. She does go off within minutes in the car but as soon as I put her in the cot she wakes up and is in a foul mood for half hr even if i am cuddling her and rocking her and then she gets second wind and she is off. If I lived on a private driveway I would leave her in the car but I don't.

DH is has just come back and she went back to sleep without the bottle  but she has been crying for 15 min but her eyes are closed. Think as I am the one that usually sees to her she knows I am the one that makes and gives her food/bottle as she never asks DH for the bottle.
DH is doing the duties tonight to see what happens.

Skyblu.xx


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## watakerfuffle

Hi skyblu

We had a similar routine with our lo in the early days. He had a good bedtime routine at fc's but was waking once in the night for a bottle of milk. He had  daytime naps at fc but only ever in pushchair or car. In the early days with us his sleep became alot more unsettled, he was waking 2-3 times during the night and wanted a bottle of milk each time to soothe him back to sleep. Sometimes it seemed ridiculous as he would go down at 7 then wake at 9! Although we found it exhausting we decided to stick to his routine and meet his demands as we felt he needed it and felt we were meeting his emotional need as he was going through so many emotions and his restless nights were more about being unsettled and anxious. We started cuttting out the bottle from day times so he just had his water or milk in his tommee tippee and we have a nuby cup and another different one. I think the variety in cups kept his interest and he didn't miss his bottle at all. As he got more settled his waking in the night started to reduce but after a couple of months we decided that enough was enough and instead of giving him milk when he woke we offered him a bottle of water (we had tried watering down milk previously but he still woke for that!) he was furious when he realised it was just water and threw it around the cot, once he realised that was all he was getting he settled down and drank the water and went back to sleep, he carried on waking for a few more days and yes we got many tears but now he sleeps right through the night and wakes at 6. He does have a dummy though but we are not going to worry about that for now as it's only nights and nap time he has it. It's just amazing the difference in us all now that we are getting good nights sleep! Like others have said I found with our lo that he needs at least an hrs nap if not 2hrs during day and he still sleeps through whereas he is alot more unsettled if he hasn't had his nap and he is 20 months. He never used to nap during day in cot at fc's but now he practically takes himself to bed which is just lovely. Anyway it's not easy I know and I hope you get some better nights soon


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## MummyAuntieKatie

I'm a little tentative in replying as I'm not a parent yet but reading through I figured it couldn't hurt to add my thoughts?  

If it were me, I'd let her have a small bottle (or toddler cup) to encourage a nap during the day but go cold turkey at night.  Once she gets used to the idea that night time means no bottle, never mind how much of a fuss she makes she'll stop asking and hopefully the habit will be broken but you'd have to be really firm about it as giving in would encourage her to try it on again.  ifywim? I'd prefer to give in during the day to get her to nap which in turn should encourage better sleep at night.

Feel free to ignore this novice..


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## Poppets Mammy

Skyblu - I hope getting your DH to do the nighttime care meant you got some well deserved 😴 It sounds like you've done wonders for LO's bedtime routine already, well done to you both, give yourself a pat on the back👍 I think AuntieKaties advice is good, get rid of the 'during the night' bottles cold turkey, it will no doubt be a nightmare at first but she'll soon learn. Perhaps keep your bedtime bottle with a sleepy cuddle, and the nap time one to try and encourage a day time nap then take it from there once your nights are settled and your all having a full night sleep. Deff start watering it down and perhaps reducing the volume as well.

Some of these FC's are   aren't they?!?

Gonna hijack your post slightly as our LO still has the odd bottle as well. She's 32 months 😳! She can drink from and adult cup and does so through the day. She's has 4oz in a bottle, 3.5oz is water and literally only 1/2oz is milk just to give it some colour (if tastes rank, don't know how she drinks it 😜) FC admitted it was her fault she still had one but at least it's watered down significantly not all milk. When she 1st moved in 2weeks ago she wanted a cuddle with her blanky and a bottle ALL day, was a comfort thing for her. We've knocked that right on the head and she only has 1 or 2 1st thing in the morning or while having a pre-bedtime cuddle on the sofa with a story. Obviously she shouldn't still be having an actual bottle, I'm not so worried about the very watery milk as I think we can easily make that water of juice as we do through the day. But when should I scrap the bottles and make it a sippy cup or beaker?? Shall I do it soon?? Any thoughts on it? 

Xx


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## GERTIE179

Hey CW, I'm no expert but some folks do contine to use the bottle. I was open to this if it contorted little guy but it was a habit and the way he took it concerned me. One day we went cold turkey - got him to help me bag them up and popped the bag in the recyle bin. We then used the bottles that were more suitable with water only. Within a few nights he wasn't looking for the bottle at all and started sleeping through til 530/6. Another few days plus blackout curtains and now sleeps 7-6.30/7 and if wakes a shhh and stroke of back and he's away to nod land. I was surprised how quick he took as he was addicted to bottle (milk is still given but in dippy cup about 15/20 mind before bed and we always brush teeth. For a few nights I put a tiny bit of toothpaste on the dummy just to make it even more appetising (he does love toothpaste).

I suppose the Q is what is your main concern - her having the sugar in mouth or the use if the bottle. My main concern was how LO was using the bottle to self soothe and it was limiting bonding. DH was happy to leave as until I pointed out damage re teeth as it dies take LO a wee but longer to go down (we wait til he sleeps before leaving but FC let him with bottle in cot and he fell asleep with it still in mouth.

IMHO There us no defined wrong if you are happy with it and its not causing damage.
HTH
X


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## Poppets Mammy

Gertie - I don't really know what my concern is really, there's so little milk in the bottles that that doesn't really bother me. She doesn't take the bottle to bed and she either cuddles into me or DH while having it so she's getting comfort from us rather than just the bottle itself. I suppose it's the fact she is using a bottle. She doesn't need to and doesn't during the day like I said, it's just that she does and shouldn't really be at her age. But I suppose is it really doing any harm, she's only having max 3 a day, is that enough to be damaging her palate?? I really don't know, maybe I'm fussing over nothing   xx


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## skyblu

Hi,

Thank you all again for the replies 
Last night was a night mare. 
Lo woke again at 12.20 and had a hissi fit as we tried not to give bottle, but in the end we gave her 2oz which was mostly water and she settled. She woke again at 4.15 but settled herself in a minute or two, so she can settle herself.
Then she woke again at 5.45 , I was so knackered I gave her a bottle and told her It was too early to be wake and to go back to sleep which amazingly she did until 7.45 

I managed to get her to have a nap today but in my opinion it was too late in the afternoon, she slept from 2.15 - 4.10 which is why for the first time in 2 weeks she wouldn't go down tonight. We started the winding down and story and water down bottle (4oz) at 7.00 as usual and by 7.30 we put her in her bed but she was crying and having a tantrum  until 8.45, where we constantly went in to reassure her all was o.k, eventually she settled with 2oz of water down milk and was asleep within seconds!!!!  This was the only time she asked for it, also I noticed she was chewing the teat , could she still be teething? We were under the impression she had all her teeth.
I only hope she sleeps better tonight.

Skyblu.xxx


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## aaa is a MUMMY

She maybe hun. Bubba hasn't got her last 4 yet 1 is on its way and she is chewing and dribbling which she never did with the others.  Small steps u will get there xx


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## wynnster

To those struggling with lack of sleep.... that's the one thing I am firm with, I HAVE to have my sleep, I cannot function without at least 8 hours   

Skyblu - DD could be getting confused by your, sometimes allowing it, sometimes not approach    If I was you, I would bite the bullet and NOT under any circumstances give in, however much she cries and whinges, tell her it's sleepy time and put her back down, repeat, repeat, repeat, after a few nights of her waking she will get the message, but if you waver and give in (even watered down, or a tiny bit) she is learning the louder she cries the more she gets.....  It is so hard, but it will be worth it, I promise   

Can#t wait - There is no issue, she's fine with a bottle, ignore her 'what she should be doing' age and just go with whatever she finds a comfort    She will give it up herself eventually.


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## Poppets Mammy

Skyblu - we also had an awful night tonight putting Lo to bed, she had slept soundly last night from 19:30 but woke up at 5:00 this morning insisting it was morning so eventually DH gave in and got up with her. She was so knackered she actually fell asleep on the floor this afternoon while playing with the cat! She slept from 15:00 - 16:00 I woke her up as didn't want her sleeping at that time in the afternoon anyway, she kicked right off, was all sleepy and grouchy and fell asleep on the sofa with me, I have her another 20mins, she was still grouchy but not screaming and crying like she had been at 16:00. So of course the same as you, we did our nighttime routine and she was having none of it. We've had a right nightmare getting her down for the night, at first she just wasn't sleepy so we let her stay up 30mins later seeing she had had a late nap, she was refusing to go to bed, kicking and screaming when we took her. She worked herself into a right tizz it was just awful, had to cuddle her and reassure her on the sofa (lights and T.V off, DH in kitchen) until she fell asleep. I just hope tonight's events are forgotten tomorrow and she isn't traumatised into not wanting to go to bed, she was really distressed about being taken when she didn't want to, I was so upset afterwards thinking about how upset she was.
It's just trial and error for us both at the min isn't it. Poor little mites still have some confusion going on deep down and we are still learning to be parents at the same time. We will get there and suss all this out with time. I reckon no more naps after 1pm for us like. Late naps = very unsettled family at bedtime 😢 xx

Thanks for the reassurance Wynnster, sometimes you just need to ask these questions and have someone point out the obvious and what you already know really. Thanks x


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## GERTIE179

CW - think Wynnster has given u sane advice I would have. My LO uses a dummy more now than in FC and I'm not worried (I have gradually changed to the ortho shape rather than the old shape which is not as good for teeth n gum formation). Health visitor gets that he's adopted and said she wasn't worried with my approach and my friends wee one us 2 and won't give up or go to ortho ones and dentist keeps on at her but she's of the opinion her LO will give it up when ready (she was thinking the Easter bunny may exchange them?!?).

I would continue.

Skyblu & CW - I feel for you as my first few weeks were similar re the sleep. Wynnsters advice worked for me - cold turkey but if you and DH can tag team so u sleep on shifts u will feel much stronger (think how u would deal with a newborn). The sleep deprecation is a killer and I remember crying into my cornflakes as I'd forgotten to feed the dog one morning and felt guilty :-(
My SW said that this is often a good early boundary setting and helps LO settle better.
X


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## skyblu

Thanks Wynnster for your advice, Yes I get what you mean about confussing her, but when she is screaming for nearly an hour it is heart breaking. DH is of the mindset to just leave her cry and she will wear herself out, he thinks going in after 5 min just starts off another screaming fit, which I suppose he is right to a point.

This morning we had a letter (which was a copy sent to SW) from her pediatrician stating he wants her to stay on the milk she is having until he reviews her in April 10th. I am seeing her HV tomorrow so I will ask her tomorrow what she thinks re: stopping the bottle.

Last Night was not a bad night really, she finally went down at 8.45 and didn't wake until 2.10am and then was wide awake at 6.00am.
DH got up and saw to her until he went to work at 7.30. Only 1 wake last night but still wanted bottle which I gave 2oz which was mainly water.

Think I will carry on with the watered down milky bottle for now as she may just stop having it if she feels she is not enjoying it as much.

Can't wait , It is so hard isn't it. It is still early days (2 weeks) and we are still trying to get to know our lo's and what makes them tick.
Lo was really naughty this morning, we recently bought a new leather sofa, thinking the wipeable option and she goes and scratches it with set of keys  Told her it was naughty (without shouting) and told her she can longer have the keys, 2 minutes later she did the same thing with toy golf flag stick thing,iykwim, I don't like doing it, but I put her on a naughty step which I have called a thinking step and told her to stay there until I say so and think why I put her there, she stayed there amazingly andwhen I asked her why she did what she did she said she didn't do it   10 minutes later she pointed at what she done and said "daddy cross" to which I said "yes daddy will be cross" she shrugged her shoulders and went off to play!!!!
How do you teach a child so young that she can't do certain things!!!

Skyblu.xxx


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## crazyspaniel

Skyblu, sounds like some progress- cling onto that!
Only wanted to add that maybe it's ok to give all milk before bed as long as you clean teeth after  
Ds still has warm milk at bedtime ( in a cup!) it's a lovely part of bed routine and apparently something in milk aids sleep


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## Poppets Mammy

Skyblu - one wake up through the night is good progress isn't it, we'll done, hope it continues 😃

Well our LO slept soundly from 21:00 to 05:00 😳 solidly sleep but too early of a wake up, I took her back to bed, said it was too early, minor strop but lay and bed and settled - or so I thought! Tried walking out the room, she wasn't asleep, cried, took back to bed and so this whole routine went on until I eventually allowed her to get up at 06:15. I waited until she was settled and lying in her bed, she was wide awake though! Been to see Grandma and Grandad this morning at poppets request as we made them Easter cards this morning and she wanted to give them to them straight away   she got sleepy in the car on the way back and I encouraged some quiet time when we got in and she fell asleep within minutes on the sofa. I'm now snuggled next to her and likely  to join her, hahaha. I'm just gonna let her wake up naturally so she's in a good mood this afternoon so I can interact with her and wear her out ready for bedtime routine, fingers crossed.
Skyblu your posts are so like mine it really creases me up. We got a new sofa during HS, went from leather to material as the dog hair seemed to stick to the leather like static. I'm so glad we took out cover on the material covers as we've had all sorts spilt on it already. I reckon we will be getting our monies worth out of the unlimited cover replacements, haha. Xx


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## wynnster

Skyblu - Yes it is heartbreaking, I agree and I have been there, believe me.  But what is the point of letting her scream for an hour if you're going to give it to her anyway??  Watered down or not, it is a comfort thing for her and she is getting what she wants as she is clearly settling again after..... If you're going with the approach of wanting to give it to her, then give it to her, there's no point in making her get hysterical for it. Or if you want it to stop and her sleep through the night soundly for your and her (and dh's) sanity then see my previous post   
No i'm not saying to completely leave her to cry, when she wakes go into her room and comfort her but tell her its sleepy time now, milky is for the morning, lay her down, sooth her and leave the room, then do it again reassuring her you're there, then again, then don't speak to her, go in her room, lay her back down and leave the room.  She WILL get the message. 

2 Year olds do do naughty things, to us they are naughty, to them its 'Oh wow look at the mark I've made when I do this'  what you have done is explain why you don't do that and that's all that's needed, she has understood by what she has said.  The step works well for my 2 year old too and she often takes herself to it when she's being grumpy   

You're so early into placement and I promise things will get better in time


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## aaa is a MUMMY

I totally agree with u wynnester we spent weeks probably even months of sleep less nights trying to be soft and kept thinking it would get better.  Not helped that we live in a flat and didn't want to wake neighbours up so we would get bubba out of cot hug back to sleep on sofa then back to cot this was taking longer and longer.  Getting her to bed was also fall asleep with bottle then into bed this was taking forever then 1 day said to hubby I couldn't keep going. Bedtime routine became bath cuddle and story on sofa then bed with mobile on. Omg how she screamed but didn't take long on us going in saying bedtime and she went off maybe few days and she realised that we weren't going to give in and she went.  Wake up during the night pretty much stopped at same time however if she does wake even now she is wide awake for 3 hours plus and there is no amount of telling her she should be asleep but touch wood we havent had one of these for a few months now. Have also introduced a spot as we don't have a step and the results have been instant she even went and sat on it herself yesterday bless them xx


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## thespouses

peacelily said:


> Thespouses...as far as I'm aware you're ok up to age 1 with teated bottles - or has the advice changed?


It has, it's now 6 months - basically when they get teeth as it's bad for their teeth. I would have thought that soya milk would also be bad for teeth?

The wake at 5, keep in bed till 6 thing sounds very familiar to us and lasted a week or more (but at a younger age). We just stuck it out and comforted him till the time we thought he should be having his bottle.

I sound like an expert and really sorted but have just had 2 attempts at an afternoon nap with the final successful one two hours later than normal!


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## watakerfuffle

skyblue I totally agree with wynnster, some very good advice. It is so so tough I know only to well, my lo would cry for upto 2 hrs and it was proper angry crying because he wanted that milk! We did as wynnster suggested and went in to reassure him that we were there for him but didn't give into what he wanted. After just 3 days he started sleeping from 7-6am   I guess it was a little different for us as he has his dummy instead and we have that battle to come but at least he now doesn't wake through the night and we are getting good nights sleep all round. Be strong and keep up the amazing job you are doing   The early days can be tough but they do get better and better as lo settles down.


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## skyblu

Thanking again guys for all your sound advice , we really do appreciate it 

Re; the drawing on the leather suite with keys (previous post)
My mum called over about an hr after the incident and I thought she really didn't have an understanding on what she had done or how naughty it was, but as soon as my mum came in she showed her what had done and said naughty and took herself to the naughty step and all the while pointing and shaking her finger. I t was so funny to watch but at least I now know she does understand. When daddy came home from work he asked her if she had been a good girl to which she said no and did the exact same thing as she did with my mum, daddy wasn't sure wether to laugh or cry 

As for the bottle....I bought a different bottle for her story and bedtime routine, it has a beaker spout on it and is nondrip, so it has a faster flow if she is laying down which she didn't like, so she sat up had a little drink but didn't drink much. DH took her to her cot after her story and insisted on taking her new bottle ( i wasn't sure on this as I don't like the thought of her choking on a faster flow) DH let her take it said night night to her and watched her through the crack of the door way and she did have a little suck but the but her bottle to the side and went to sleep.  hip hip hurray. Lets hope she sleeps well tonight.

Skyblu.xxx


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## GERTIE179

Excellent progress skyblu - sounds like things are working well for you
Fingers crossed you don't see her darling face til daylight :-D


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## keemjay

aaargh just lost a long post..probably best as i started to rant


in brief..agree with Wynn (i always do) make a decision, either give her a the milk or dont. end of. theres absolutely no point her getting distressed if you're going to give in anyway..you are meant to be building a bond with her at this point, she nees to take her lead from you and trust you implicitly. you only get one chance at geting her to securely attach to you in these fragile early days of placement. decide your approach and go with it. I would also say she is possibly waking because she is overtired so she really needs that nap in the day..with milk if that is what will get her to sleep! and it takes days for the body clock to get into new routines, this isnt going to happen straightaway..once you have decided your approach, stick with it and change will come..


also forget her teeth, teats, bottles and all that stuff..a few more weeks isnt going to make any difference..what matters now is getting her to feel secure. HV's etc who have no connection to this child will know sweet FA about what she needs..smile sweetly when they mention their opinion on teeth and bottles at night and then do whatever you want and what is right for your child. HV's are not the oracle on anything at this point..in fact most know nothing at all about adoption/attachemnt. sw's arent much better often...(want an example? sw of newly placed child says to friend she likes to pop in and 'cuddle the baby' on her visits..friend lets her do so as she figures sw knows best..i mean really!!??  )


right that'll do
good luck!


kj x


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## skyblu

Thank you all for the replies and advice re: bottle during the night 

It has been decided that a few weeks is not going to do her any harm and we are going to reduce the milk in her bottle instead of watering it down and see how she goes. We have now stopped having the bottle during the day and is happy to have her milk in a beaker for a nap.
Hv suggested putting a radio on outside her bedroom, as she seems to wake up around an hour after we go to bed, this is apparently because the house has gone too quite and she seems to notice it. We were recommended on radio four as there is hardly any music on that channel and with a bit of luck when she hers the voices she wont wake up as often. It is worth a try, I will let you know how we get on.

Thanks again
Skyblu.xx


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## GERTIE179

Skyblu - we found that leaving the music on Los room monitor seemed to do just that. It's on very low and our handset comes withan option for tailored mute is when LO wakes/coughs etc we hear it instantly but don't hear the lullabies.
Otherwise Radio4 should do the trick and may even try it myself ;-)


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## thespouses

Oh yes!  find if the radio is on in the kitchen (below little boy's room) he naps better!


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## skyblu

Well Radio 4 did'nt work last night but at least it was 3 hrs later when she woke up so got an extra 2 hrs.
Will try again tonight. Today she had a nap at midday to 1.30 and was so ready for bed at 7.30. Hoping radio 4 is going to work better tonight.

Skyblu.xx


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## keemjay

hope last night and tonight were/are better xx


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## skyblu

Just to update you all who responded to my post.

Lo was waking up every 3-4 hrs for the bottle to start with and then one night 2 hrs after going to bed she woke again for the bottle.
DH and I decided there was no way she needed milk again so we went cold turkey and yes she did cry for a while and we constantly went in to reassure her everything was allright and it was sleepy time after 10 min she settled but woke a further 3 times during the night.
The next day we told her as she was a big girl for not having her bottle the night before, we said she was a big girl and we don't think you really need bot bot anymore and we think they should go into the bin. She happily put the bottles in the bin and said bye bye .
As she was a big girl we bought her a mobile for her cot that has a night light a recording of my voice saying to go back to sleep as it is sleepy time and choices of music. when she wakes and makes a crying sound or just shouts for me my voice will come on and then she presses the button for the music and goes back to sleep 

It has now been 4 nights and last night she woke up at 10.00 after going to bed at 7.30 and we thought we were taken a step back but after 5 minutes of asking for her bottle and making do with a drink of water she actually for the first time slept all night. Our alarm went off this morning at 7.15 and we couldn't believe it, I took a peek in her room and there she was sitting in her cot all smiles for her mummy 

Thanks for all of your advice. 
Skyblu.xxxx


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## MummyAuntieKatie

Great!  I bet everything is rosier after a good sleep and knowing you managed to change the unwanted behaviour.


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## wynnster

Fab news   

Well done for going cold turkey, its hard but well worth it in the end, for everyone


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## GERTIE179

Fab skyblu - it's a great feeling when u have cracked it and LO is happy. X


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## thespouses

Fabulous! Please can you tell us where you got this magic mobile??!


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## Anjelissa

That's brilliant news skyblu!  
I WANT one of those mobiles for our next lo, what a clever idea  !

Anj x


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## skyblu

Thanks Guys,

For those  who have asked I got the mobile from HOME BARGAINS  and costs £19.99 and is called LULLABY NIGHT LIGHT MOBILE.
I have to say it seems to work but the voice recording doesn't work  if the lullaby is on, it is one or the other but lo knows if she presses the heart shape button she can hear my voice any time. The other problem at the moment is lo has a terrible cold and cough and every time she coughs the dam mobile comes on.

She is very poorly at the moment and I feel way out of my depth. She had a temp this morning which calpol did bring down. Her appetite is good but she just moans and cries all day. I so wish I could take her sore throat away from her and make her better.
The scary thing for us is that she has fitted twice in the past with a high temp so I am constantly touching her to see how hot she is.
I hope she is better tomorrow and sleeps better tonight.

Skyblu.xxxx


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## thespouses

Might be worth giving the out of hours GP a ring to reassure yourself.


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## crazyspaniel

Try using children's ibuprofen too x


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## keemjay

oh poorly little ones are scary when you're not used to it. I'm much more confident now I've been doing it for longer!

its worth remembering that febrile convulsions are much more likely when using calpol etc to bring the fever down..because its using an articfial means to bring the temp down, instead of using the body's own natural mechanisms the temperature is much more likely to shoot up again quickly after the medicine has worn off, a fast increase is what causes febrile convulsions

this article is good
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2011/03March/Pages/advice-for-managing-child-fever.aspx

hope that helps
get well kisses to LO

kj x


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## skyblu

Thank you Keemjay, just read the link. It is funny hoe some doctors say one thing and another says something different.
We were told that as she has suffered convulsions in the past we should firstly, take off her clothing,open a window and give calpol.
We did all three but we changed her pj's to a cooler pair as she had fleecy ones on put she was complaining she was cold, so we gave her a light blanket and when she fell asleep we took the blanket away.
Thankfully she is a lot better today, we had a rough night last night with waking up every time she coughed so tried to put her on her side which worked until she went back on her back 
She is still coughing and after reading the article I will just give her the cough medicine and see how she goes.

Thanks
Skyblu.xx


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## aaa is a MUMMY

Skyblu sorry lo is poorly hope she is better soon. It is so hard when they r poorly especially in those early few months I am sure we went down as neurotic parents but I was more worried about her. U take care it gets so much easier xx


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## Poppets Mammy

Skyblu - sounds like your doing a fab job, hope LO recovers quickly   Just a quick note which you might already know. People with a high temperature often shake and feel cold, it's the bodies response to having a temperature and is called rigors. Just so your aware 😉 xx


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## skyblu

Hi Ladies, Just to update you all.

Lo is no asking to go to her cot for bedtime, she will then talk to her teddies for about 5 minutes 
She only now wakes once for reassurance we are still there which is usually between 11.00pm and 2.30am and sleeps straight through to 7-8 am.
To say mummy is a lot happier is an understatement.

Thank you all for you help and reassurance.
Skyblu.xxx


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## Mummy DIY Diva

Fab news you have done amazingly x x


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## thespouses

Lovely to hear that!


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