# THE MATTER IN HAND



## Catch22 (Oct 12, 2003)

Hi All,

Welcome to "THE MATTER IN HAND".

I think, first of all, we should confirm who's gonna be involved. So, to start the ball rolling I'd just like to confirm that I'm willing and able to provide written material for this project, in addition I am willing to help out in any other way re organisation, information gathering, etc,etc,etc...... you name it, I'm up for it..... just tell me what you'd like me to do!!

Catch (very excited and ready to go!!)


----------



## stevejc (Oct 22, 2004)

I like the title better every time I read it  

Jar outa the car for a cover....fantastic  

I would like to offer my services too: liaison with publishers and reporting that back to us all to start. My own story; and anything else I can do really.

I'll get to work on the publishers right away. 

Oh, another idea any of us could work on, is that books like this fair better when endorsed by a "celeb" (yuck, hate the whole celeb thing, but it can serve a purpose). We could try and find a male celeb who has experienced IF and perhaps include their story in the book? Raises the profile...What do you think? 
Some internet research for some of us Sherlocks.

Bless ya'll

Steve


----------



## Pilchardcat (Feb 1, 2003)

Ummmm Jamie Redknapp springs to my mind


----------



## stevejc (Oct 22, 2004)

Jamie Redknapp...is there some evidence about him Amanda? Is it worth me following up?

Steve


----------



## Angus (Jun 1, 2004)

Hiya

I hope you don't mind me butting in but I have to odd scan of the Mens Room to report back to my DH that hes not alone.  He's too shy to join in at the moment tho.

I think the book is a fantastic idea - from a womens point of view I'd love to have some idea how men feel about the whole thing.

Anyway as a avid 'reader' of Heat magazine I thought I'd try to help with the male celebs bit.  I believe Jamie Olivers wife has PCOS as does Posh (allegedly LOL)  And Ben Elton's had IVF.

If I think of any more I'll let you know.

Good Luck with the book!
L xx

PS Steve just read your post hope Amanda doesnt mind but Louise had endo which she had removed and then they got pg


----------



## Paul (Jan 9, 2003)

*Just moved this over, so we have the info on this thread.*
Hi Guys
There is a real passion and excitement about this idea, it's fantastic to see.
Chase, I think you are right about having set "sections" for us to write in and how about having a "And a Final Thought" section to enable us a bit of freedom as well - to write about what is important to us ?
I think we should have an acknowledgement to FF at the start.
If there are guys that want to remain anonymous then they could also write in the book, it will be a great way for us all to air / share our feelings.
Stevejc, thank you for your work, please help in any way you can.
As Catch said, we need some deadlines and need to know who is in.

Should we set up a new location for this ? Not sure how to do that.
How about using a meet up photo to explain how we all come together ?

Paul


----------



## ♥ M J ♥ (Apr 17, 2004)

hey boys

hope u dont mind me jumping in but jamie oliver and his wife jules had ivf done and had a baby girl! he mite be a good one to contact as he has been very open about treatments

sound u need any help from us girlies pls shout i would be happy or should u want another opinion from a guy im sure my husband stu would be up for a natter! 

take care

Love

Mez
xxxx


----------



## Pilchardcat (Feb 1, 2003)

Angus  !!  Are you sure you don't WORK for Heat    I thought Louise Redknapp had IVF so I read it anyway  

Kevin Kennedy (Curly) from Coronation St had IVF with his wife to have a baby......and I think he has written a book too ( about his life) but he might be interested


----------



## Catch22 (Oct 12, 2003)

Hey hey........

I think this just might work!!

Thanks everyone so far for your input.... Jamie olliver....... definite maybe........... Ben Elton........... OMG he's a genious, what a priveledge that would be!!

Like the idea, little worried that emphasis could be taken from ff, something I personally would like to see as a HUGE part of the book! (afterall, we'd all be going through this alone without ff right?)

Mez....... get stu in here!!!!

As always...

Catch


----------



## ♥ M J ♥ (Apr 17, 2004)

hey guys

im gonna give stu a guided tour of ff at the weekend as i live in here!!! lol

will get him registered up and get him posted! warn u he is a man of few words(probs cos i dont shut up and he doesnt get much chance to talk! lol )

take care and good luck guys!

Love

Mez
xxxx


----------



## Catch22 (Oct 12, 2003)

hi Mez.... excellent news!

Can't wait to meet him. (That's if he can get on the pc!!)

Catch


----------



## Catch22 (Oct 12, 2003)

hi woppa,

better find out when the deadlines will be and set Dougie going straight away!! If not I do a great deal on MP3's with voice recorders...... you could buy him one for chrimbo and typeit all up for him for New Year! 

As always...

Catch


----------



## *Kim* (May 5, 2002)

Hiya 

My DH Paul sounds interested. I will get him to join and then he can have a natter with you all. He only types with one finger too Woppa.

I think this is great and i will definately be buying a copy or two.

love Kimx  x


----------



## Deb10 (Sep 5, 2004)

Hi,

Hope you dont mind me popping in.....

Benjamin Zephaniah (poet) in 1992 discovered he was infertile due to lack of sperm. He was the subject of a TV doc called 'Shooting Blanks'.... he may be of interest. He has done alot of work raising consciousness in the black male community about infertility in general and the desperate shortage of black sperm donors too.

I'll speak to my DH too - perhaps he will pop in and have a chat on this thread,

Goodluck, Deborah[br]Posted on: November 12, 2004, 09:58:24 AMAthletes of the Heart 
London
Yerma's Eggs 
www.athletesoftheheart.org

See link
http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/en/pulse/other.html

This performance project was conceived, devised and directed by Anna Furse, with a multicultural cast of six, explored infertility and Assisted Reproduction Technologies (ART). The production blended physical theatre and cutting edge video projection both documentary and bio-medical. The title of the piece comes from the Spanish writer Federico Garcia Lorca's play 'Yerma' (meaning 'barren') about a desperately childless peasant girl in 1920's pro-natalist Spain. Furse states:

"I didn't want to write a play, impose my authority on a single-track narrative, as this would imply working on but one of so many possible medical infertility factors. I wanted to get under the skin of the subject via the body in performance - expressionistically, viscerally, and reflect complexity and contradiction via a layering of elements. The fragments of Lorca's play we used have nonetheless become a sine qua non, as his words have such resonance to the theme today. With ART the human heart collaborates with highly invasive medical technology. We are impelled to reconsider our ethical assumptions. We subject our bodies to a necessary splitting - the separation of eggs from ovaries, sperm from testes, reproduction from sexual intercourse - as our sex cells become involved in a spectacular process of fusion and, if successful, growth outside us. In vitro fertiliation (IVF) procedures offer us exceptional insight into our own reproductive processes. Who else gets to see their 48-hour-old pre-embryos before feeling them being inserted into the womb? Rapidly evolving advances in these technologies impact on all areas of our relationships with our bodies, with each other, with life itself. The bioethical debates they provoke are complex and challenging, forcing us to confront the logical outcome of all medical intervention in the human condition." 
Project Patrons were Marina Warner and Benjamin Zephaniah.

The production played at Riverside Studios in London and the Explore @ Bristol science centre, May-June 2003. It was funded by an Impact Award from the Wellcome Trust. Ancillary activities included bioethical debates and workshops in schools and colleges as well as the publication of an Education Pack.

Some more info...
[br]Posted on: November 12, 2004, 10:08:46 AMHi there, DH of Deb10 here. Sounds like a good project, would be more than happy to lend a couple of anecdotes/philosophies, etc. Not the best writer in the world, but a fast typist....

I have a few contacts in the newspaper industry (I worked for the Daily Telegraph for 8 years (not as journo, as IT guy) and have friends who are journos for Times and Evening Standard, so might get a bit of publicity if we complete..

Experience 1)
went to my manager yesterday to ask for a day off for blood tests/scan/etc marathon that I am having today. While initially supportive and had no problem giving me the day off, he ended the meeting with the most wonderful of statements: 'So, you're a Jaffa then?'....Come back Brent all is forgiven.... Bit my lip and counted to 10, was very close to punching his lights out... P.S I am leaving this job at the end of the month...

Anyways,


----------



## kkfr (Sep 8, 2004)

Not sure if my info is right, but didn't that other cook who had a program on itv recently, you know the one with all the celebs working in the kitchen of his restaurant,I can't remember the name ,Hell's kitchen or sthg ,anyway I'm sure I read in some mag that him & his wife had treatment. He's quite hot at the moment. Might be worth looking into. I'll send my apologies now in case I'm wrong.
Karen.


----------



## AngieMbb (Oct 2, 2003)

Hi guys Catch's dp here, I just wanted to wish all teh very best of luck in your new journey together!
I know it will be fantastic and well all be queing up to get a copy. I can see your all excited and have loads of great ideas its fantastic.

Catch just wanted to let you know I love that you can be so open with your feelings and I know your input on this book will be amazing i'm here to support and love you baby!!!  

Good luck everyone.

Angie.
x


----------



## Catch22 (Oct 12, 2003)

Hi All,

Chase........ you think I _really_ need editing? I'm offended  (  )

Reckon you might be the right one for the editing job though mate! Good on ya!

Would definitely be more comfortable with a celeb endorsement rather than celeb story... otherwise I think it would be seen as yet another celeb story and not for what it is!

Been thinking about this cover business. I do like the comical value of the 'men at work' sign on a loo door, but I'm not sure it would appeal to what would, undoubtably, be our target audience. Let's be real about this, you only have to look at this site to see who would potentially be buying this publication... the ladies!! 
I'm not suggesting it wouldn't be of interest to the guys going through this, like ourselves, and I for one would definitely buy a product of this nature if it were available today, but I think we would be naive to assume that suddenly, guys around the country/globe, would start picking up literature on this subject. It is, sadly, still a very female orientated topic. Only yesterday I was subjected to the stereo-typical exclusion of the partner in this process when we visited our GP. She was astonished that a) I was interested in the whole thing and b) that I knew more about ph levels and ovarioan reserve tests than she ever imagined she would need to know! I just feel that some potential buyers would construe this as a book full of toilet humour if we gave the wrong 1st impression.

This is, of course, completely imho, and something which is, surely, open for debate?

I'm working on Crannage personally, and think that the contributor picture is a 'must have' feature! Good job Paul/Chase!

Many thanks for the input Deborah, and Hi to Debs DH (sorry, you didn't mention your name). A typical example of the insensitivity surrounding our situations really!! I think I wouldn't have contained myself from chinning him.... well done you!

Hi kkfr,

Think you're refering to Gordon Ramsey?
Another possability on the celeb endorsement front! Thanks.

My feelings at the moment are that we're getting some great input from a lot of areas, and that's fantastic. I reckon that we now need to get some organisation into place so that we can start to form a structured plan and take it to the next level.

Have any other guys started getting there thoughts down yet? I know I have, and it's surprising me so far at how lenghty a process it actually is. I started writing a piece last night which I thought would take about an hour or so, and found that, after 3 hours (which included editing) I was somewhat short of finishing that particular piece.

(Angie, my darling, thanks for your love and support. I love you with all my heart baby... you're my world sweety xxx)

As always...

Catch


----------



## Paul (Jan 9, 2003)

Hi Lads
Sorry I have been a bit quiet lately, you know how it is, we have egg collection on Monday and my mind is doing the Paso Doble with a cartwheel to finish.
Excited, sh** scared, hopeful, doubtful etc, etc. But this time I am managing to turn each thought I have into a positive one, and focusing on our future, whatever it may hold. Should put this in a book........

Right, to "The Matter in Hand"
Think Catch is right, we need to be a bit more subtle with the cover, and a group piccy of the lads is more appropriate than the meet up piccy.
Yeh, just have a celeb "forward" so we don't take the focus off the contributors.
Had a chat with Gary Numan at a wedding show back in 1997 and I think he and his wifey had fertility treatment, but he hasn't been around for ages and we've lost touch !! Sorry.
I think we need a list of contributors as soon as, and then how about we each look to get a couple of pages down to start with and pass them on to someone to read to get some feedback.
I am sure Jac wouldn't mind if we ask her !!
And maybe an "outsider" someone who has not had any experience of treatment to get a second opinion ? Any ideas ?
Perhaps we can look to complete this by Xmas, this will give us enough time to get something together and then crack on with it in 2005 ??
Not sure about the format, I like Chase's idea of having set sections but then think that perhaps "Paul's Story" "Catch's Story" "Chases Story" etc, etc and then a set number of pages each to tell your story how it is so we have that freedom to focus on what we want.
Don't know, not sure, any more thoughts ??
As I said before, we definitely need a Fertility Friends Acknowledgment at the front, cos' if it wasn't for this site..................

Contributor's List 

Chase 
Catch 
Paul R
Paul C
Dougie
Stevejr?
(sorry if I have missed anyone)
Add your names lads....
Even if you want to remain anonymous, you can use this to release your feelings, thoughts etc.

This is going to be a wonderful project.

Cheers 
Paul


----------



## Catch22 (Oct 12, 2003)

Hi All,

nice to see you keep popping your head round the door Jac.

Paul... countdown to EC huh? Just want you to know that Angie & I are hoping and praying for you man. Give Jo the biggest of hugs & buckets full of  !! We're with you every step mate, you know that right? Great that you're managing to stay positive!! 

Glad to see I'm not alone on the cover issue. Like the idea of getting some constructive appraisal of our efforts so far. I think we'll need to see how other's feel about the first deadline being for xmas, some have many more commitments than others and might find it tough to get something credible within 4 weeks (?) 
I also think you're spot on that someone "outside" the whole fertility/infertility fraternity should take a look too, I think our primary audience would be people with fertility difficulties but we also need to make sure it would be an interesting publication to the 'outsiders'.
I'm in the same situation re the sections. Needs to have the structure as suggested, and I do quite like the whole story-line thing. The problem being that we're all at different stages on the road, and we can't all comment on each section, we can only write our stories so far + what we dream for the future. I think the difficulty of having it as 'Paul's story', 'Chase' story', and so on, is that each of us will, I'm sure, have a significant amount to tell, and we would run the risk of losing the interest of the reader if we had 6 or 7 full legnth stories, one after another, in one book (does that make sense?). For example, I'm currently writing my pre-treatment chapter, which covers the time we first found we had a problem, to when we actually started 'treatment' with a fertility clinic. This period covers approx 18 months, lots of operations, disappointments, discoveries, etc. So far I've written just under 2000 words... and I'm basically on the very first operation and I'm being brief because time has passed! I'm not sure how much I have to say about this part of our journey, but would think it is, at the very least, another 2000 words. The later chapters will, of course be longer because there's more detail to include.
I don't know... maybe we just can't make the decision on format until we have the actual content in front of us? Perhaps we should concentrate on production before we start marketing?? Afterall, right now we have nothing to market!
Don't worry about ff getting a mention my friend, i don't think there's any among us who would let this thing be published without it!!!

Great to actually see a list too!

Come on guys... we need your input! 

Woppa... thanks so much for volunteering to be Dougie's PA for the next year or so. We'll have a word with him not to put you under too much pressure! Reckon I should do the same with Angie... then I'll have someone to blame for all the typo's and missed deadlines too! (clever bugger that Dougie!  )

As always...

Catch


----------



## IanR (Nov 14, 2004)

Hi there all,  Deb10's DH here, my name is Ian btw, sorry for not putting it on before, was in a bit of a rush, but wanted to put my presence out there....

Anyways, I have a login now, so should be on a bit more..

Good luck with the EC Paul, hope it all goes well.

The Book stuff, great idea and I reckon I can contribute something before Xmas fairly easily, we are still in the investigation phase really, so not too much but enough to contribute I hope.

I agree with Catch22 about the structure of the book, I reckon having chapters based around the various phases of the whole IVF circus will give the book an easier reading feel, with each guys story about that phase in a few pages, or paragraphs really.  If you just have one guys whole story after another, it is not such a 'keeper' of a book...
Some thoughts on what Sections could be: 
'Somethings wrong, why no baby?' - Initial thoughts when you discover that this is going to take longer than expected...
'Confessions of a cubicle ******' - Thoughts about the SA's, been done a bit before in the press, but guys are still interested
'Oh ******, its me!' - Finding out that you have a low sperm count, whether to tell friends, etc, reactions and the anger, resentment and questions one feels/has.
'The urologist - your new 'close' friend' - All the physical exams we have endured
'EC - D Day - but more important' - The worries, stress and having to give a good sample, etc on the big day.

The rest you guys might be able to expand upon, I havent had an EC yet, but lets chat more about it.

Agree on the celeb stuff, keep it simple, just an endorsement, I am getting the idea that this is a book for blokes, by blokes, type thing, celebs will turn it all a bit 'heat magazine'...

Possible thought for the cover title, and a bit off track, but what about trying for something more controversial, e.g. having something like 'wank' or 'Jaffa' in the title/cover, something that might get the reviews in the paper?  LIke the men at work idea, but depending on what you guys think, maybe we can push the boundaries a bit?  Might also appeal to a wider range of guys, think of the 'Nuts'/'Zoo'/'Loaded' type of reader?

Anyways, I will start on a few stories and will post them up when I can... speak laters


----------



## Paul (Jan 9, 2003)

Welcome to FF Ian, hope you will find the site as useful and supportive as I have, there are some great people involved in the whole thing. 

Personally, I think you are going in the wrong direction with anything to do with wank / jaffa etc. in the title.
As Catch said the audience is going to be predominantly women, secondly men with fertility problems and then others who are intrigued.
I think we could lose the target audience if we are not careful. 
And if we target the Nuts, Loaded readers it could end up looking like a Viz spin off. Pardon the expression !!
Think I am liking the sections idea a bit more as you have said we may lose interest if we go for one story in one hit.
Catch you are right, I think Xmas maybe too tight for initial contributions, maybe end of Jan and then try to have as much finished as poss by the April meet.

Right, I am going to get some thoughts down.

Speak again soon.

Paul

ps. Tony you are keeping a bit quiet mate, are you in.


----------



## nicky30 (Sep 23, 2003)

Hi all

Just lurking and saw this  - sounds fab.

Just adding my celeb knowledge (love celeb gossip!).

kkfr is right about Gordon Ramsay I think. I read he had male factor probs which alot of chefs have due to heat in kitchens affecting sperm. 

Louise Rednap fell naturally but had lots of gynae ops and 4 years of ttc due to endo so her hubby would have had to support her through that.

Jamie Oliver's wife was Clomid - not IVF I think.

I think Gordon Ramsay is the only one who had male factor probs.

Benjamin Zephaniah is the one I have heard of most recently who has been very open about his probs.

Good luck all

Nicky x


----------



## Pilchardcat (Feb 1, 2003)

Wow Chase !  Thats sounds like a plan   I like it....to have one strong character all the way through will give the book a great sense of direction....and I love the idea of introducing all the others along the way too.  Nice one 

(sorry to butt in  )  Amanda xxx


----------



## IanR (Nov 14, 2004)

Hi there all, thanks for the responses:

Chase:  Jaffa - Make of oranges that are seedless, not as bad as kaffa, but still worth a chinning...LIke I said I am leaving that job in 2 weeks, leaving those tossers in the crap is good enought for me.

Also think that having catch as the main linker a good thing, if he wants to, then he can drive the main narrative.  Are we going for a more factual, anecdotal/share experiences type of book, or trying for a ficton based?  My vote would be for the former, seeing as Ben ELton has already done the latter, and would be easier in general..?

Dropping your pants and having your nads felt was a definitely a 'think of england' moment, but I had to really bite my lip when the guy looked up from my crotch, balls in hand and said in total dead-pan 'You have good volume testicles'.  I really just wanted to burst out laughing....

Paul: Yeah possibly, I think that the title thing might be a bit strong, although I will want to use those sort of words in my experiences, if that is OK with everyone else?  This is just the way I talk about things..find it makes it easier...guess that is what a pubilc school education does for one...

I think the cover will come after the words have been written..

I will get something together and post my stuff in the next few weeks.

Having my ******** ultrasounded next week....oh joy...

IanR


----------



## Paul (Jan 9, 2003)

Can't say I agree with having just one central character and the rest of us pop in and out whenever.
I thought your original idea was better, Chase. Having stages of treatment with each of us telling our story for each part. Obviously we can't all contribute to each section but we could write in each section that is relevant. I think we would get more guys to contribute this way and it would be a bit more structured.
They are my thoughts.
Initially I think whoever wants to contribute needs to get something written down, and limit that to say three or four pages each so whoever reads it can do so in a short enough timescale. 
Perhaps have a deadline of say end of Jan to get this done, then when we get some feedback we can then decide on format etc.
Maybe if we all give an overall story of our experiences and then elaborate and expand it for the final book. 
What do you say ??
Ah, I dunno my minds on egg collection and the next couple of weeks.
I'll speak again soon.


Paul


----------



## Anthony Reid (Jan 1, 2002)

Hi Guys,

I have created a private board to keep the book stuff more private....

Anyway, I need a list of all collaborators so I can give them powers to see and use it 

Tony,
x


----------



## Jayne (Jan 26, 2003)

Before you all disappear into your private area, just wanted to wish you all loads of luck with this.  Sounds fab!   

Good luck! 

Jayne x


----------



## IanR (Nov 14, 2004)

yeah I would like access to that one dude, and can that one not be censored?  If it is a system wide setting, dont worry...


----------



## Anthony Reid (Jan 1, 2002)

I'll play with the censorship and see if I can make it a board based policy rather than global site based 

Tony,

ps. Can you see the new board at the top of the 'Mens room' index?


----------



## IanR (Nov 14, 2004)

Thanks dude, all seeing, all dancing now....will be posting inside there now..thanks for looking into that censorship thing too....


----------



## Catch22 (Oct 12, 2003)

All in good time Paula.... all in good time!

Catch


----------



## saphy75 (Mar 15, 2004)

awww i'm gutted to as you guys make me laugh now i'll have to wait for the book to come out 

Paula what do you think about planting a spy in there ?   

luv pam xx


----------



## Catch22 (Oct 12, 2003)

Sorry pauls... No Good!!

If he joins he'll have to take the oath, and sign a non-disclosure agreement so you'll _still_ have to buy the book!!!

hahahahaha   

Catch


----------



## saphy75 (Mar 15, 2004)

well what you doing sitting about come on get this book written i need to read it    

pam xx


----------



## Catch22 (Oct 12, 2003)




----------



## saphy75 (Mar 15, 2004)

i'm a cheeky moo aren't i  

pam xx[br]Posted on: November 17, 2004, 09:56:32 AMpaula any news about getting your dh in as a spy ??    

i asked mine but he's not the spying type and said it would be far funnier to keep me in the dark 

pam xx


----------



## Deb10 (Sep 5, 2004)

Im also curious - my Dh has got in touch with you- IanR... cant wait till the book is out...I have about 7 fertility books- it will be interesting to read one from a man's perspective...

Just a thought - out of all the books i have read there is not much info on male infertility - it would be so useful to have some info on the below - 

- why see a urologist (questions to ask at the appointment)questions to ask at a follow up
- why see an andrologists
- tests needed to diagnosis low sperm count or no sperm count
- SSR
- options on freezing sperm - there is very little info on this. OUr clinic will not freeze DH sperm as they say not 'good enough'.. other clinics freeze sperm so what are the guidelines in terms of ' whats good enough'- how does sperm survive though, fresh vs frozen sperm etc...what happens if there is no sperm at egg collection time- back up plans ...
- info on tests (hormone blood tests - normal range- and what they mean - ie high FSH etc...) ie what to expect for ultrasound.... etc... waiting for results
- maybe clinics/ specialists that specialise in male infertility in UK


Anyway thats all I can think of at the moment - but with all the books I have bought Ive been disappointed on how little info there is on male infertility. 

Cant wait till your books out - goodluck, Deborah


----------



## kkfr (Sep 8, 2004)

Hi all, been reading this site with interest. I have a suggestion. As there are so many people who want to put there stories accross why don't you plan a series of books from the start,dealing with different problems in different books. You could either write them as fiction novels with the main carracter the central focus and use bits of the funny/unusual stories of everyone who's been  in that particular situation to build your plot/story, or just several books containing funny stories,information,etc.
It might make it easier than trying to cram it all in one book and give you more scope for the future and also get you started quicker.
They need to be humerous to capture a bigger market, you want everyone to buy them, not just people with fertility problems. (The novels are probably a better bet as if it's seen as a funny story it's less embarrasing for men to buy themselves, whereas the other I think it would be more likely the women buying it).
Who knows, they could become best sellers ,with people waiting anxiously for the next book, with treatment changing and new problems arising all the time you could go on for ever!!!!     
Look forward to buying the book for dh next xmas.
Karen


----------

