# Pregnancy and Parenting After Infertility - Donor recipients - Part 18



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Please post what you want on the summary page and I will try to put it together for you all. 

Happy chatting   

Name                              DS/DE/Both            EDD or Birthday                Flavour/Name/Weight

ceci.bee                          DS ICSI                  EDD 06/05/11                    ?

juju81                              DS IUI                    born 17/03/10                  Noah  Alfie  6lb 0.5oz

HellyS                              DS IVF                    born 28/10/08                  Emily    4lb 8oz  

Ju2006                            DS IVF                      born 29/09/07                  Girl        8lbs 2.5oz
                                                                      born  07/08/10                  Girl          9lb 8.5oz 

teresal                            DS IVF                    born 06/08/10                  Meredith Emma  6lb

Mighty Mini                      DS IVF                    born 05/07/10                  Lucas  Edward    6lb 7oz

pinkcat                            DS  IVF                  born 03/07/10                  Joshua  8lb 5oz 

Fizzypop                          DS FET                  EDD 30/08/11                    ?

carrie lou                          DS IUI                    EDD 11/05/11                       

pippilongstockings            DS  IUI                    born 09/10/07                    Luke      7lb 11oz
                                                                        born 30/04/10                    Zachary 7lb 10oz

ALF                                  DS  FET                    born  May 08                      Girl    9lb 5.5oz

margesimpson                DS IUI                    born  June  2010                Boy 8lb 2oz

snoopygirl79                    DS  ICSI                  born 05/05/09                  Maisie  5lb 8oz  and
                                                                                                                Chloe    4lb 13oz

Hopeful Hazel                  DS ICSI                    EDD 28/06/11                     

Chrispx                            DS IUI                    born 21/01/11                    Girl 5lb 10oz 

Northernmonkey              DS IUI                    born 28/04/07                    Girl 7lb 14oz
                                                                      born 19/04/10                    Girl 8 lb 140z

Paws 18                          DS IUI                    born 17/03/10                    Boy 7lbs.  

Suze                                DS ICSI                  born 19/12/09                    Libby Pauline 6lb

Speeder                            DS IUI                    born Sep 09                        Little Speeder - Girl

JanaH                              DS IVF                    born 25/05/11                    Joseph 8lbs 2oz


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## Tamsutbadger

Hi ladies

Getting nervous now going to Spain on 7th march for 1st egg donation cycle I am 35 trying to conceive for 4 years last August told no hope as I had premature ovarian failure devastated...

Just wanting any advise on what to expect with egg donation cycle on estradiol 2 mg for lining at present hope it works how many should I have put in all those type of queries?
Thanks 
Tammy xx


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## snoopygirl79

Bookmarking!!


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## ceci.bee

Also bookmarking - for the summary page Hazel am pg with donor sperm EDD officially 6th May 1st baby
thanks!
love
C  

ps Tbadger you may have more luck posting on the DE cyclers page....


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## juju81

Afternoon,

Hazel ~ Noah Alfie born 17/03/10 6lb 1/2oz


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## HellyS

Bookmarking too!

Hazel - Emily born 28-10-08 weighing 4lb 8oz

Thanks
X


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## Ju2006

just bookmarking


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## teresal

just bookmarking

hazel -- Meredith Emma 6th August 2010 6lb

xx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Lucas Edward born 5th July 2010 6lb7oz


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## Fizzypop

Hazel - I am due 30th august 2011.


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## carrie lou

Bookmarking! And I am due 11th May 2011


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

and i'm due ............


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥




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## pippilongstockings

Mini, you just made my heart jump!!

Hazel - Luke ~ 09/10/07 ~ 7lb 11oz, Zachary ~ 30/04/10 ~ 7lb 10oz

Thank you! x


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## *ALF*

Hazel - baby girl  May 08 

Thanks


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## teresal

mini due        mmmm maybe the local asylum


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## carrie lou

Mini   you are cheeky!!!


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## margesimpson

Sorry Tammy, we used donor sperm, but sure someone will be along to help soon   There's also a good thread on single embryo transfer vs double transfer which you might find useful.


AFM for the summary page - DIUI - DS born June 2010 8lb 2oz


Mx


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## Ju2006

Pinkcat - my 1st was 8lb 2.5oz and my 2nd was 9lb 8.5oz


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥




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## *ALF*

My DD was 9lb 5.5ozs (luckily delivered by c-section)


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## juju81

Alf, ur little one was exactly the same weight as my niece, she was c-section too!


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## pippilongstockings

ouchy ouchy ouchy!


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

makes me want to cross my legs!


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Well, I have put together the summary page from info available and I hope it is right.
1st time doing this it is not fancy and in places a bit wobbly, but I hope it will help!


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## teresal

thanks hazel


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## ceci.bee

Thanks so much Hazel


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## carrie lou

Thank you Hazel!


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## margesimpson

It's great to see all the babies and bumps - makes me want to try again!    Hope everyone is well. Mx


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## ceci.bee

Marge you are seriously broody methinks


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## chrispx

Hazel- Baby girl- born 21/01/11- 5lb 10oz

Hi everyone,

Has anyone used colief before?

anyone know the difference between...colic/wind / reflux? i'm getting mixed messages from people & i'm getting all confused...


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## margesimpson

Chrispx - sorry, don't know much about it. We tried infacol, but not sure he needed it/it helped. Others in our baby group used it all the time. However I did read that spacing the feeds out as well as possible, rather than constant snacking, helps with the digestion and eases things, but don't know if that is really true? That was from the Contented Little Baby.


Ceci - broody? Who me?


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

chrispx - colic is when they bring their knees up and arch back after a feed and cry and cry. Fennel tea in milk is good for colic with massage. 
Wind is normal, just pat back. 


Reflux is arching of back during feeding and being sick ALOT. all babies are sick but if they can't keep much down and are arching back then maybe reflux?  Using a dummy is good for a reflux. DS had a slight reflux for 2mths. 


Dr Browns bottles are good for windy/colicy babies. we switched to them when he had his reflux. 


all this can be misdiagnosed with tiredness    i know so many people that thought baby had colic and it was just baby wanted to go to bed    keep a note of whern she goes to sleep 


anyway thats all my opionin anyway!!


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## HellyS

thanks Hazel

x


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## pippilongstockings

Just a quick note for chrispx - reflux doesn't always involve being sick.  Z has terrible silent reflux and until he started on solids he was hardly ever sick.  If you suspect reflux then your hv can prescribe infant gaviscon, maybe have a word with her about your concerns xx


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## northernmonkey

Hazel - DIUI baby girl born 28/04/07  7lb 14oz (not a baby any more, will be shopping for school shoes soon    )
          DIUI baby girl born 19/04/10 8 lb 140z, not the heaviest on the thread but very good to mummy as I had a great birth and didn't need a single stitch!  Hope the next one's birth weight doesn't increase at the same rate though, I really don't fancy squeezing out a near enough 10 pounder!! 

Hope everyone is well, I'll have to catch up properly later as baby was throwing up all morning bless her, so she has just wanted cuddles all day - I'm making the most of it as she usually isn't at all interested in sitting still because she is absolutely intent on learning to walk at the moment.  

Hope you're all well and enjoying the weekend.

NM
x


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## juju81

Crispx, are you bottle or breastfeeding? If bottle try switching milk to a comfort one, they all do them. I thought Noah had colic but changed his milk to c&g comfort and within a couple of days he changed for the better.


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## teresal

Hi Ladies

hope everyone is ok and had a good weekend    

can i ask for your thoughts, Meredith has started pulling her own hair and scratching her head (she has scrathes all over the top of her head) only does it when shes tired, have tried just moving her hand away, tried giving her a muslin in both hands, any other thoughts on how to stop her before she hurts herself, she doesn't cry when shes scratched herself so can't be that sore but am more worried that it becomes a habit and she starts pulling her hair out   
this parenting jobs isn't easy is it


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## northernmonkey

Teresa - both of my girls have had the hair pulling habit.  DD#1 used to really tug at hers, and like Meredith it was usually when she was tired.  She was once sat doing it in her buggy in Next and a total stranger once ran up to her to try to stop her doing it! I hadn't realised it would look so alarming to anyone else! She just grew out of the habit herself and to be honest I found the best thing was just to ignore it (she didn't end up with any bald patches and believe me I would have noticed cos she hardly had any hair until she was 2...)  I've noticed DD#2 doing it too so perhaps it is quite common??  I didn't notice them scratching though - the only suggestion I can think of is babygros with scratchmits at night (you can get them with mits in quite big sizes) but not sure about during the day....


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## teresal

NM -- thanks for that, will try and not stress about it    she won't keep mitts on, hates having her hands covered, always has done even when she was first born she would flap her hands till they came off, tried the other week when we where going out for a walk and she just pulled them off with her mouth (while smiling at me   ), must look really bad to someone else, think i owuld look worried as well if i seen someone elses child pulling their hair


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## spooks

aw, brings back memories of baby spooks doing it (i'd forgotten all about it til now) 
I used to give her a piece of my hair (obviously it's long) and rub her head gently for her. 
sounds crazy now    but it worked 
and if i need her to sleep now I've only got to play with her hair  gently and she nods off immediately


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## teresal

aww spooks, wish meredith would just play with my hair, she just pulls it    and thinks its funny when i say ouch, hopefully she will just stop doing it as quick as she started


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## teresal

PC -- thanks for that, its reasuuring to know that Josh just stopped doing it on his own, she hasn't done it much today, more into sucking her thumb (whatever that is about   )   

just had HV in for a visit (was just passing and thought she'd pop in and see how we where), she weighed meredith and she is now 18lb 4 1/2ozs which takes her onto the 75th centile and the HV said that i have to reduce her milk to 22oz in 24 hours cos she is putting weight on to fast     (13ozs in 2 weeks) so am trying to work out when and how much to give her    and since she has started waking at 3.30/4am just to give her water not milk so she won't wake up just for milk and drop the dream feed (that means she will be going 12 hours without anything). ohhh my head is done in, think you are doing good cos they are thriving but hey no have to start taking milk away, going to have an unhappy baby tonight   

will let you know how it goes, DH will be struggling with this one, looks like it will be me that has the fight tonight


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## juju81

Teresa, how old is Meredith? I can't work out your ticker quick enough, change it to the months/weeks for me please  

Suppose if she's on solids now do 7, 11, 3 and 7. Is she still having a dream feed? Have you tried dropping it?


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## juju81

Mini the HV will come along shortly and tell u how to do it 

It's funny cos I was told to give Noah full fat foods to fatten him up


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## teresal

Ju --  shes 7 months this weekend, she is still dream feeding but we have to drop that one now. will work things out tonight when she goes to bed that fit in with our routine and start it tomorrow morning. they are all different aren't they, am sure once she starts moving properly she will gain slower, still just moves backwards and gets annoyed cos she gets stuck or moves away from what she wants, hasn't worked out how to move to get things yet.


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

juju81 said:


> Mini the HV will come along shortly and tell u how to do it


 

Tezza - at that age they can go 12 hrs without anything. Lucas dropped his dream feed at 5 months. she won't wake up, she'll be fine. The waking up at 4am is probably a habit as its normal to wake at that time. Either leave her to cry it out for a few mins or give her water.,

Do you feed her milk mid morning? I'd drop that one too. Dont give her a snack, give her lunch at 1130am if shes hungry. If shes having enough solids then she should start to drop her feeds. Lucas doean't have enought milk!!!!!!!!!!!


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## teresal

HV said that they normally drop feeds themselves but not meredith    we had stopped doing the dream feed but when she was ill we started it again    she doesn't have milk mid morning and has lunch at 11/11.30 cos she is starving as she won't eat breakfast, hopfully if she isn't getting as much milk she will start eating it again. the waking through the night is a habit and probably our own fault that shes still doing it cos we go into her and feed her (why would she stop when shes getting what she wants).
Lucas must prefer his solids to his milk then, who could blame him


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## paws18

Hi 
Hazel - Baby paws (boy) born 17-03-2010 weight 7lbs.

Bookmarking be back to catch up soon 
Paws x x


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

how was last night Tezza?


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## teresal

mini -- she went down as normal at 6.30, didn't feed her at 10pm, she woke at 2.10am had 1oz of watery milk and went back to sleep, heard her chattering at about 5am but she just went off again and that was her till 7.10am, so a good night, had her bottle when she got up but wouldn't have breakfast and hour later    but didn't have time to mess about this morning, we had to be up and out for 9am cos i had an interview and had to go pick my friend up cos she was taking meredith for a walk while i was in for the interview, so today has been all over the place really, i went shopping straight after so her sleeps are all over the place this afternoon, not our normal day.
am hoping tonight will be as good and maybe by the end of the weekend she won't wake up at all and i    that she will start eating breakfast again.
will be a normal day tomorrow so will get everything sorted into times and hoping that will get her used to the new routine


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## juju81

Tezza, Noah never dropped his feeds, I just stopped giving them to him!!!  It's just trial and error really!

Paws, fellow bump and baby buddy. Ha, still find it weird we were due the same day and had them the same day! Any thoughts on presents!?


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## teresal

juju -- next few days will be just trial and error, we will get there in the end    

have just seen that wee girl on the news that was still born and they brought her back to life, ohh the tears are flowing bless her


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

tezza - she did well then!!    Maybe now shes stopped the dream feed she'll eat breakie. Its one of lucas' fave meals!    Do you give her ready brek? or other cereal? is it wirth cows milk or formula?


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## teresal

mini -- we give her ready brek, weetabix, porridge usually with cows milk now. she did get the spoon to her mouth this morning before blowing her usual raspberry of refusal    so tomorrow is another day, am all ready to get started properly and will write down how much she actually drinks and maybe then i might be able to give her couple of ozs of milk from her allowance at a different time, she was desperate this afternoon for her milk and bless her water isn't the same, trial and error me thinks


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## juju81

Breakfast is the most difficult meal to get down Noah! He ends up with just a load of fruit normally


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## margesimpson

Hi all,


Teresa - what a wee shame for Meredith! She obviously loves her milk - does she really need to cut down before she wants to?. She will soon get used to sleeping through without a feed though.  DS does sometimes wake up and takes a wee drink of water or Calpol if he's teething, but it means he takes a full Wheatabix in the am. He's the opposite - doesn't take enough milk in my opinion, so try to give him lots of milk in cereal, cheese sauce, yoghurt, cheese etc. 
75th percentle - she's a waif! DS was 93rd at last weigh-in and apparently that's fine!    Likes his chuck - just like mummy and daddy!


Stewed apple mixed in with readybrek or banana mashed into wheatabix helps DS gobble brekkie down.


BTW I've a query - I know you're supposed to make each bottle fresh, but can you make up the bottles with water and keep them in the fridge until needed and then add formula? I know that's not the instructions, but I'd like to give him a bottle in the am and don't want to make him wait until the kettle boils/cools etc.


Mx


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## teresal

marge -- i know you are not meant to but i make merediths bottles (with powder) in the morning and put in the fridge for the day, i only take one out about an hour before shes going to have it, she has hers at room temp, thats the way i always done it when i was a nanny and they all survived so done the same with meredith and shes doing ok. wow ds being that big, is he tall or just chunky, i didn't think she was that big but obviously have a HV thats going to be fussy    

juju -- she likes fruit so might just give her that in the morning and someone else suggested a yoghurt, will see how she is   

don't think tonight is going to be good, can here her stirring already    and doesn't usually do that at this time    help help


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## spooks

i'd be inclined to ignore the HV and do what I thought was best    - some of them are obsessed with their charts


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

marge -  I fill a flask of water the night before with boiled water and fill the bottles when i need them. Or i used to fill half a bottle with boiled water for the day then top up with the hot water from flask so it was the right temp. 
or fill with boiled water the night before for the day and heat up in a jug of hot water. 


I never put them in the fridge, just in a cupboard at room temp.


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## teresal

spooks -- was starting to think that aswell    

last night wasn't to bad, woke at 2.30am had her watery milk then back down, woke at 6.15 though with a dirty nappy    so that was us up    only took 2 ozs of her milk and refused the rest, waited an hour and made breakfast but she still wouldn't eat it and wouldn't have the rest of her milk, has been in a real grumpy mood all morning, wouldn't have any lunch at 11.30 so just put her up to bed and she slept till 1.40, still wouldn't entertain her lunch so have made her cheese on toast and shes munching on that now. really late lunch so god knows what shes going to be like at tea time, things where going fine till we seen HV on wednesday and now shes all over the place   , am just going to do whatever now and not worry about what HV said


hope everyone is ok


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## margesimpson

Teresa - sounds like a good plan    Isn't she a clever girl? Cheese on toast? DS would not entertain that! He'd pick it up , but not like the way it feels and drop it on the floor.   


Thanks for all the bottle advice - I have officially stopped breastfeeding now, so anything that makes bottles easier is very much appreciated


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

I thought I would update you with regards to my anomaly scan.

All well and baby now weighs about 625 grams.

And we are having a little


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## teresal

marge -- the only thing i have found that she won't hold is a banana, must not like the slimy feel, she will give anything a go now when shes in the mood to eat. gave her grapes tonight (did peel them, she better not get used to that) gave it a funny look cos it was wet, quick suck on it then chucked it over the side of the highchair, am sure she knows that if it lands on the floor then it goes in the bin (have 2 cats so wouldn't give her it back, never know what they have been doing). how do you feel about stopping breastfeeding, hows DS getting on without the boob, he is doing well if he will take a bottle after being breastfed, good boy that he is    . get your    into gear and get something sorted for meeting up, will try and get my dads car so don't have to use the bus (i hate buses now)   

hazel -- lovely little boy, can't believe how quick your pregnancy is going, he will be here before you know it


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

tezza - she might be off her food cos of teeth or a cold coming? DS is refusing alot at the moment. Hes had 2 teeth through in a week    and has a cold.    


I put a Plastic mat down when he eats, so if he throws it i can pick it up cos i know its clean. I was wasting and running out of food in the beginning cos it was having to be thown away. Not so much now as he eats most of it!    


Marge  - If you give him stuff to feel he'll eventually like it and start to eat it. Most of it wil get thrown but he;ll get it in the end. 


Hazel -      Boys are fab!


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## juju81

Have tried posting loads  

Stupid FF!

Marge, what I tried saying was I boil the water the in the evenings, leave it to cool for 30mins then pour into bottles. I then leave on side until bottle needed then just add milk, shake and drink. He has it at room temp, bollo*ks to heating it    actually I don't do any of that now because he's on cows milk  

Tezza, just go with your gut instinct. Once she's moving she'll drop a bit of weight anyway!

Hazel, congrats on ur little munchkin boy. They are the BEST !!!


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## spooks

hazel, so pleased your scan went well     

I used to make up bottles using fresh boiled water, toppped with pre-cooled boiled - a bit of a nuisance but it worked for me   

hope everyone else is doing well, 

love spooks


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## Ju2006

marg - you just need to make up bottles with the water to start with and then add the formula when feed time comes around.  You are advised to mix up feeds and use them usually within 1-2hrs, any mixed feed that is left after this time is to be thrown away due to it breeding bacteria which could then cause LO to have a tummy upset.  I think at 6mths you can used normal tap water instead of cooled boiled water, yet you should still sterilise until 1yr.  I have not started this yet altho I should as it would be soooo much easier.  re heating up the feed, some powders mix better with warm water (Cow & Gate), some mix OK with room temp water (Aptamil) IMHO !  I don't heat the daytime ones, dd2 takes it fine, i heat the night one so that it makes her sleepy !

Teresal - my dd went off her food for a few days, screamed everytime the spoon went near her mouth, I am putting it down to teething or that she may have a sore throat (I have one that started yesterday).  Today is a diff story, she will eat whatever I give her.  She has started dropping her mid am and mid pm milk, we have gone down now to 4oz on both.  She squirts it out the side of her mouth but will happily take 8oz at bedtime. 

Hazel - glad the scan went well, congrats on expecting a boy !


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## Fizzypop

Hazel - congrats on the baby boy! And that all was okay too x

Well ladies I haven't got much to contribute at this stage, but I am reading along soaking up all the useful hints and tips xxx


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## teresal

Hi ladies

hope you are all having a nice weekend   


i have 2 baby names books one of which is Celtic names, first to PM me can have them free (or just one whatever you want) not as if i will be needing them again

sorry for the quick post


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## margesimpson

Thanks for all the bottles advice - feeling better about giving him bottles generally. Although he does sometimes nuzzle in and it seems like he's rooting a bit    It's the right time for me, but it makes me a little sad how fast things are going. They grow up sooo quickly don't they!


Right Tezza - sorry for being so rubbish! We're free Mondays, Tuesdays and Fridays. How about the 14th 15th or 18th Mar?


Mx


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## chrispx

Hi Ladies, Thanks for all the advice.

We are now using Colief in bottles & she seems (fingers crossed) like a different baby. I am enjoying her more as with the colic & screaming i felt so tense & ended up crying myself. 

What is dream feeding?

I have been reading back over...so looking out for tips & advice as always...you guys just know what your doing..  

Hazel- Congrats on it being a boy, how lovely.


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## chrispx

Also anyone know how to amend my signature? i can't remember my password


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

chripsy - glad she has settled down.    With knowing what we are doing, it more a case of suck it and see!! I hadn't a clue!! but you soon get the hang of it and with everyone elses experience follow them!   


TBH i didn't read anything on how to wean him onto solids, i just read about BLW and asked a few questins and got on with it. Only now i wonder if i've done it right


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

To amend your signature, click on your name on the left and you will get your profile. Go to forum profile and you can change it.


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## carrie lou

Hello ladies   

Just thought I would pop on to say hi and that I am reading - promise! - and picking up lots of useful info for after baby's born. I'm nearly 31 weeks now and starting to feel a bit uncomfortable and tired! Only 3 weeks left at work   then I start maternity leave, I feel like it's the right time for me to stop. 

Chrispx - nice to see you here again, I'm glad your little one is doing better


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## teresal

carrie -- when did your ticker start moving so fast    enjoy your mat leave when it starts cos baby will be here before you know it    

chrispx -- glad baby is settling down now. dream feed -- we used to give meredith a dream feed at 10pm, its when you give a top up feed without waking baby up then hopefully they will sleep longer during the night, mini is the expert on this and told me how to do it    

well teething is definately here, poor wee thing is struggling, lovely rosey cheeks and will bite (gummy bite) the face off you if she gets close enough   , has anyone used those herbal granules for teething and if so are they any good, have given her calpol but doesn't even touch her    best of it is i can't even see a tooth ready to come through yet    so could be a long haul for all of us. on the up side she is eating again, albeit yoghurt for beakfast but at least she is eating again


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## margesimpson

Hi all,


Carrie - it's lovely to start your maternity leave. Have you arranged loads? I wish I'd started a little sooner really as didn't manage to sort out the photos on the computer etc or knit for bubs and promised myself that I would. Finally starting to do photos now, but with all the photos we've taken of DS I'll never catch up! Are you going to do some aquanatal or something? It's great to treat yourself and good for bubs of course! I found it like an exciting count down as each member of the class had their baby.


Chrispx - it's funny how we all seem to think everybody else know what they're doing more than we do - most of the time, it's trial and error, but I like getting advice on here to reassure myself. A feed about 10.30/11pm where you feed the baby without him/her really waking up is sometimes called a dream feed. The idea is that you're already awake and so you feed them last thing and then they last through till morning    cough....well that's the idea anyway!   


Hazel - yippee...a beautiful baby boy!    Have you bought any little blue outfits yet? There's such cool stuff for wee boys now.


Teresa - can't wait! Poor Meredith. Are you giving her enough calpol? In hindsight it seems like commonsense, but with DH being so solid for his age, we weren't giving him enough for his weight when we were giving him the dose for his age. I just didn't want to give him too much! I've heard the granules to be the best, but DS seemed to love a cold teether straight from the fridge.

Mx


----------



## teresal

marge -- we are giving her 8mls but i really should text my friend (shes a childrens nurse) and ask her how much she should take now, if i phone HV she will prob get back to me when shes gotten all her teeth, how much would you give her at 18lb. she doesn't like the feel of them cold teethers  . booked train tickets today and nearly had a heartattack  when i checked yesterday its £37.50 return and when i looked today it was £172 return (virgin website) so checked that trainticket one and still got it for £37.50  would have been cheaper to have came on the bus and have a wee holiday in edinburgh than pay that on a train ticket  am looking forward to seeing you and DS and you really better have *blue hair*  and DS better look like Bart or i will be lost


----------



## margesimpson

I'll see what I can do on the blue hair!   
Thank goodness you checked trainticket - still a bit steep though considering!


----------



## teresal

was what i was expecting really and would rather pay that than sit on a bus for 3 hours and of course you are worth it


----------



## *ALF*

Teresa - J_ really_ sufefred with her teeth. She started apparent teething at 3 months but didn't cut her first toothtill two weeks before her first birthday. Each of her back teeth took 8 weeks of terrible teething to come though. At her worst times I was giving her pain killers every 3 hours - paracetamol, then ibuprofen, then paracetamol again, then ibu etc. I'd also use teething gel lots and lots (we've kept dentinox in business for the last two years  ). I was worried about giving her so much as it would often be for days on end, but I checked with the pharmacist and they said as long as I kept within the maximum amount for each drug per day then it was fine.

Love to all
xx


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

tezze - we did what alf does. Nurofen is the only thing that worls for  DS. The grnanules don't work either! give nuro then calpol


----------



## teresal

thanks girls, will get DH to go into Asda when he finishes and get some ibu and somemore calpol


----------



## paws18

Hi everyone

Cant believe baby paws is going to be 1 this week. Where has this year gone been the best year of our life for sure we ae so lucky.

Had really hard time recently as baby paws has had 2 chest infections and this week tonsilitis and scarlet fever. He is much better now but its been a nightmare.      Please let us be germ free for a while.

Juju - We have got a swing and little pushalong car for garden and whizz around garage from elc for baby paws birthday. Hope you and noah are well. What you doing on thursday? We are having family and friends for a wee birthday tea.   

Teresal - Hope meredith teething settles. I found ashton and parson powders were fab. Enjoy your wee trip to edinburgh. Let me know if youz manage a wee day to Glasgow would be lovely to meet up  

Marge - Blue hair needed for sure hee hee. We make up bottlles and cool them then store in fridge for up to 24 hrs (the old fashioned way) and no problems with tummy bugs or anything.Let me know if youz manage a wee day to glasgow would be lovely to meet up  

Fizzypop - Congratulations am so pleased to see your bump news.   

Take care
paws18 x x


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Teresal - I am a FF pharmacist as well as board mod.

If she is 18lbs - that is 8Kg, she can have 15mg per Kg of paracetamol 4 times a day.
So that is 120mg - which is only 1 x 5ml spoonful of calpol infant strength 120mg in 5ml.

8mls would be too much.

With the ibuprofen the maximum dose is 30mg/kg per day split between 3 or 4 doses.
So she can have 3mls of the 100mg in 5 ml strength 4 times a day or 4 mls 3 times a day.

You can alternate the two every 3 hours no problem. She should have a feed before the ibuprofen.

As for Ashton and Parsons powders - magic fairy dust as far as I am concerned.  

I was left alone to look after my friend's screaming baby teething one night and I was at my wits end - I had fed, changed, sung, rocked, walked a channel into their laminate flooring   - then I remembered being left the powders. AMAZING


----------



## margesimpson

Hi All,


Teresa - how's M? Has the teething eased at all or anything helped? Poor wee mite   


Paws - 1 year - how wonderful. Are you going completely over the top to celebrate? Oooh I hope so, if only for the pictures!   By the way, you're very welcome to join us, if you feel like jumping on a train and coming through - the more the merrier! Or else maybe next time?
AFM - feel we've got the bottles thing sorted now, but he doesn't half go through the formula!   He doesn't seem too bothered about not breast feeding any more, but when he nuzzles in sometimes out of habit, it's a little like rooting and I feel a little sad that stage is finished    Onwards to planning the first birthday party extravaganza!   


Mx


----------



## juju81

Paws ~ were getting Noah a smart trike and were going completely over the top with a party. I have 24 kids coming! I have asked them to come dressed as an animal   and a gorgeous noahs ark cake from marks and spencers! It won't be the same every year tho !

On Saturday were also taking him to Brighton sealife centre  

Marge/Teresa, enjoy your meet lovies x


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

hazel - at least i know i'm doing it right!    The fairy dust does nothing in this house!!


----------



## teresal

juju -- good for you going over the top with Noahs birthday, why not, he's a special little boy and deserves it    

paws -- like marge said you could always jump on the train and come join us or we can get something organised so all of us can meet up soon, another special wee boy is 1 this week, lucky boy with his presents as well. glad he is well again now, he seems to have had a rough time with being ill, bless him    

hazel -- thanks for that info    

marge -- she seems to have settled down again for now, still not a sign of a tooth yet    think shes keeping them for good. glad the bottles are sorted out, he seems to like his grub, can't wait to see him


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

i'd keep doing what you are doing. It could be his teeth or getting a cold. DS goes off his food when these things are brewing. Keep giving him finger food. the gagging is a normal thing, he'll get used to it in the end.


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## teresal

*Two Special boys are 1 tomorrow
* ​ *HAPPY BIRTHDAY NOAH ALFIE FRANCIS AND BABY PAWS*​ *This is your 1st birthday*​ *A very special one*​ *A nice kind of day*​ *for treats and fun*​ *from the time you get up*​ *till you go nightie night*​ *hope your first birthday*​ *is a special delight*​ ​ ​ HAVE A GREAT DAY ALL OF YOU​              
​ just posting it now cos we have playgroup in the morning then getting my hair cut so probably won't get on till tomorrow night

Love and Hugs from Teresa & Meredith xxxxx


----------



## juju81

Aww tezza      thank you that's lovely. Can't believe he's 1  

I'd also like to say happy birthday to my fellow bump bud paws/baby paws xxxxxx


----------



## teresal

don't you be crying you soppy mare     happy memories and many more to come. whens the big party, need to see the pics when you get them on the computer


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

its like christmas innit!


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## carrie lou

Awww... happy happy birthday to Noah and Baby Paws, hope you both have a very special day tomorrow     

Ladies can I ask your advice please about baby clothes ... I'm a bit confused about sizes as different shops seem to have different ideas about what will actually fit a "newborn". I got some clothes from Mothercare in newborn size; apparently they will fit a baby up to 10lb. But then my mum bought us some clothes from M&S, also newborn size, but they are intended for a baby of only 7.5 lbs and are quite a bit smaller than the mothercare ones. Will the 10lb clothes be far too big for him when he's born? But then if he's already 7.5lbs at birth, won't he outgrow the M&S clothes really quickly? Sorry if I'm being really dense   but it is a bit confusing ...  Just trying to work out what to pack in my hospital bag.


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

whatever you buy they will be big unless you have a 10lb baby  i bought all newborn but he was 6lb 7 and everything was massive!    SO in the  end i bought tiny baby things. you wil only need a few baby grows. I;d buy some in tiny baby and some in newborn and keep the reciept and take back and exchange once baby is here. you will get lots of pressies too. Mothercare come up big. M&S do tiny baby, NB and upto 1 month. MC do Tiny baby, newborn and 0-3. I used alot of up to 1 month.


----------



## *ALF*

Carrie-lou - welcome to the wonderful world of baby clothes sizing    I'm afriad it is quite a bit of trial and error to see what shops sizes fit your baby best.  You will also find that some shops are different proportions to others even when supposed to be the same size    My experience is that Next tend to be quite generous, George are mid range and tesco come up quite small - someone is going to come on now and contradict me.  
Afraid it doesn't get any easier as they grow - J is almost 3 and above average in height, the clothes she wears at the moment include some 18-24month Next joggers, some 2-3 Matalan joggers, age 3-4 Asda tops and age 4-5 tops from Matalan (Next joggers seem to be the extreme on coming up big the rest of their range is just slightly bigger than others).

J measured big for dates though out my pregnancy so I didn't buy any tiny baby but had a selection of newborn and up to 1 month.

Not really much help there, sorry! I am forever getting frustrated with clothing sizes (it's one of my litle bug bears!!!)


----------



## carrie lou

Mini - yikes! No I am not planning to have a 10lb baby! He is measuring exactly average for dates so I think he will be between 7 and 7.5 lbs.
ALF - thanks for the advice. I'm thinking I should probably get a few more tiny baby clothes, i.e. around 7.5lbs, even if just a few things so I can see what actually fits him when he's born. Don't want to realise when he arrives that nothing fits!


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

I am confused too!

I am using reusable nappies too, that are huge, I guess the clothes have to fit those too.

Can you buy stuff now and exchange it that much later?

I have a few new things and got some great bargains in a charity shop the other day - 5 baby vests/grows for 50p and they look new! Going to wash them, but they hardly look worn.

Exciting news from me tonight - I saw the baby move and kick for the first time! It has made my day!


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Awww thats nice Hazel. I used to lie in the bath and put a flannel onthe bump and watch it move.   

Yes, mothercare are good for exchanging clothes months after. I used to look at the clothes and think they didn't look big enough, but when it came to it, they were too big!    

Tesco vests are good cos they come  iin inbetween sizes. - 2-4mths    sainsburys vests are stretchy, clothes come up small. 

Primarni - if you are able to get a packet that hasn't been ripped open and pulled apart then their vests are quite good. Don't spend out on vests, as they get poo on them and sick which doesn't come out    i've thrown away loads!


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

PPS - i've loads of boys clothes up for grabs if anyone is interested!


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Happy birthday to Baby Paws


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Happy birthday to Noah


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## juju81

Thanks carrie and mini

Re clothes, it is just trial and error. I would suggest getting tiny baby clothes, altho you've been told he's average, they told me that about Noah and he was 6lb    and I had the most gorgeous grows from next that were massive....ur right alf! Matalan are massive too! 

Trying to establish what size to get for our hols in June was a nightmare, we went for 9-12!


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## paws18

Hi everyone  



    Happy 1st birthday to my special baby paws. x x

    Happy 1st Birthday to Noah x x  Hope you have a lovely day.

Juju where has this year gone. 

hi to everyone 
Paws x


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## *ALF*

Happy 1st Birthday Noah​    ​ Happy 1st Birthday Baby Paws​     ​ Love Alf and J​


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## *ALF*

ahhhhhhh - can't get that top line to move over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Lindz

Happy birthday Noah and baby Paws!! Xx


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## juju81

Paws, it's incredible isn't it  

Thanks alf

Lindz, how's it going? Are things getting easier?


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## Lindz

Hiya, yep, things are a little easier and babies are more fun so i think that makes things better! Even at 3am a giggle is still cute! 
I wondered what you guys did about stopping breast feeding? Is 3 months too early? I'm expressing and give them 5/6 feeds breast milk and the other one formula so they're already used to it and they don't seem to mind! The expressing is killing me though especially in the middle of the night when I have to wake up before the babies to express then feed one, then the other. By the time I've changed them and resettled I've been up for 2 hours! 

Hope everyone's good. I still read but normally on my phone while expressing so find it difficult to post xx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Lindz - you give up when you want to hun.    the babies will be fine, as long as you are happy, the babies will be. No point being tired unneccessarily when you could give them a bottle. I tried it once and it wasn't for me, for me bottles were easier!!    so you've done a great job BFing with twins!


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## juju81

Oh I'm glad things are easing up.

Can't advise about the breast feeding as I bottle fed but like mini said there is no point in making yourself even more tired than need be. There's nowt wrong with formula hun and quite frankly if it gives u an extra half hour of shut eye then go for it. But that's just my thoughts, do it when ur ready lovey

xxxx


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## carrie lou

Hello ladies, thanks for all the advice about clothes. Think I will get a few more tiny baby ones.

Lindz glad things are getting easier with the twins. Can't really advise about breastfeeding but it seems every baby is different and you have to do what you think is right for your own situation. I think you've done amazingly well breastfeeding twins, it can't be easy   

AFM - just seen the midwife and my bump is measuring a bit small - 29cm at 32 weeks   Having said that it was only 27cm at 28 weeks and going by the little growth chart I have, it should be 30cm now to keep up with his previous rate of growth - so only really 1cm out    I have to go back in 3 weeks and if it hasn't caught up, she is going to send me for a growth scan.   Although she said not to worry as it may just be because I am petite. But I can't help worrying, what if he's not growing properly and it's because of something I'm doing? Maybe I'm working too hard or not eating enough or something.


----------



## juju81

Carrie hun chill out   Noah was either measuring either behind or couple of weeks ahead and it was never the amount of weeks I was. I know it's hard but don't worry xxxxxx


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## Fizzypop

Noah and baby paws - happy 1st birthday. Really can't believe where the last year has gone!!

Lindz - glad it is getting easier. I agree with mini and Ju on bf. Think the midwives make such a big deal about it that it can stress you out (they made my friend stay in hospital for 10 days because hers was not bf'ing properly!) you've got to do what is right for you - think you've done amazingly well for 3 months xxx

Carrie - easy for me to say, but don't worry. That measurement thing is quite a crude measurement anyway. I don't know anyone who has measured okay on that. Same friend as I mention above got sent for the growth scan and all turned out just fine. She is about 5ft 4 and size 6/8 pre preg so was never going to be massive x me thinks I will be the fatso when I go. Two people thought I was much further gone than I am!!!


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## *ALF*

Carrie - try not too worry. Bump measurements can vary day by day and between two people measuring the same bump. They are only ever used as a guide, if your midwife was at all worried she would be sending you for a growth scan now rather than waiting to see what it's like in 3 weeks.  In an attempt to reassure you at about your stage I was measured by my midwife as being 3 weeks bigger the NEXT DAY the consultant measured me as exact for dates, so supposedly shrunk 3cms overnight - when I expressed my surprise to the consultant he said it was absolutely fine and wasn't concerned at all.

Lindz - I think you've done AMAZINGLY well to express and feed twins for as long as you have   As the others have said if you feel it's time to give up then do so and DO NOT feel bad about it you've done such a good job already.


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

carrie -    like the others said you;ve got nothing to worry about, don;t you go google either    Mine was up and down too. I am 4ft 10 so baby was petite too (not now tho    ) but cos i wasn't on their average chart there was always room for a few Hmms and Hars    I think at 36 wks or something i was measuring 34 wks, or something like that. MW said nothing at all to worry about. I'll dig out my diary and have a look. 
at my 20 wk scan the sonographer meausered wrong and worked it out on the wrong due date which made baby too small. it freaked me out and i had to wait 8 weeks for another scan    to be told baby was average and was all a c0ck up    Imagine what i imagined, I even saw a consultant who didn't check the measurements himself and was talking about early delivery and 'keep an eye on things'    then realised 8 weeks later what idiots they all were   

Breathe..................!


----------



## teresal

carrie -- like the others have said don't worry, i am not exactly wee and i was measuring 2/3 weeks behind at your stage, when MW measured compared to cons they measured differently, i was sent for growth scan after it and all was fine, was told a little baby rather than a big one. everyone is different    

hi to everyone else, comp is just about knackered, have to hold the charger while typing cos its not charging properly so getting annoyed    so soz for the short post

looking forward to seeing marge and DS tomorrow and going on the train (sad i know, but we don't use trains very often)


----------



## Lindz

Thanks ladies. I know you're right. I'm just scared of stopping and then feeling guilty. HV is VERY pro breastfeeding and made me feel pretty bad about expressing rather than straight breastfeeding and asked why I wasn't expressing for all their feeds. Er cos I haven't got enough milk for 2 babies and I'm always starving, so tired and I'm doing my best!! Dread to think what she'll say when I say Im thinking about stopping. 

Carrie- as everyone has said, try not to worry. I was measuring small for twins but they weren't a bad size in the end. When you think about how much healthy new borne vary in size then surely bumps must vary a bit too!

Hiya Fizzy, how are you doing? 

Both babies bathed, fed and fast asleep, woo! 
X


----------



## carrie lou

Thanks ladies, you've made me feel better. I know I'm probably getting worked up over nothing and if she was really worried, she would have booked me for a scan straight away. Just got worried there was something wrong   So I will try to relax now!


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

carrie - yes you're right she would of sent you straight for a scan. She must see it every day. I think even the con measured me and i was a few weeks behind. He didn't say anything.   

tezza - have a nice time on the  train!   

Lindz - Ignore the HV, I would tell her straight what i thought    how dare she make you feel guilty    I was ready to tell my HV to shove it when i told her i was doing BLW but she thought it was good, so didn't have to    Get you for gettung your 2 bundles to bed by 730!!


----------



## margesimpson

Hi all,


Teresa - meet you off the train tomorrow  - really looking forward to it!


  baby paws and baby juju!


Linz - if you feel it's time to give up, it's time. I've just given up and thought I would miss it more, but I'm totally fine about it and DS doesn't seem at all bothered. Are you still BFing too? Expressing AND breast-feeding is massively time-consuming and you've done amazingly well to get till now.  If you want to carry on feeding though and are finding it too much, I'm sure there must be a compromise to be had. If your HV is judgemental she's no help really, but a breast feeding clinic might be if you have one in your area? Couldn't you breast feed one and then give formula to the other and then alternate so you're only doing what you can manage and still getting some sleep? What a god mum you are, finding giggles cute at 3am! 


Carrie - glad your mind has been put more at rest, it's hard not to worry when you get told that. Does give you a good excuse for eating a little more chocolate though?   


Mx


----------



## juju81

Lindz, do u need to tell the biatch that your thinking of stopping? I wouldn't bother if she's going to make you feel like that. Personally tho, if it's starving you and makingbyou feel weak and knackered I'd  say now is probably a good time to stop


----------



## Lindz

Ok, decision made. Next week, after they're 12 weeks I'll start cutting down slowly and doing what Marge suggests. I'll aim to be all done by 4.5/5 months when we can start thinking about solids. Yep, it can be our little secret too, no need for HV to know. Phew, it feels better to have a plan. Hate this expressing pump with a passion! 

Have fun tom M and T. 

Night ladies x


----------



## margesimpson

Linz - I can totally sympathize with being fed up expressing - that blommin' noise: eek..ook...eek...ook....aaaargh! I had borrowed the pump and gave it away after about 7mths as I'd stopped used it about a month before. I started by giving formula at 11.30am, then again at night-time (lovely for DH to be able to give him it) It was so liberating! In the end, I carried on feeding DS myself at 2.30/3pm feed as just so handy when we were out and about then just first thing in the morning for another couple of months as rather enjoyed a lazy early morning feed in bed. I did rather drag my heels in stopping though!    Tell you what, filling one of them up with a big old feed last thing might help them sleep far longer too! Glad you've got a good plan and I think you should be very proud of yourself! I mean, it was sooooo tough for me with one and you've got two!


Juju - how was the party? Sounds wonderfully wild with 20 plus(?) kids! Any ideas would be great as already starting to plan DH's!


Paws - did you have a party too?


Mx


----------



## spooks

hi just a quickie as I'm not supposed to be on here
   hugs and love to all, hope you're well

lindz - i just stopped gradually - i was doing the feeding then expressing routine for about 3 months because of poor supply and just couldn't go on any longer (even with the 1 baby) so stopped expressing and breast fed baby spooks as I when i felt like it - in the end stopped completely at about 6 months when she completely lost interest. do what you want and take it a day at a time. B feeding is so much nicer when you know you don't have to pump straight after. I used to do a bit of Breast feeding followed by formula so i felt like baby spooks was still getting the benefit but i knew she was full too.

gotta dash   byeeee


----------



## spooks

also wanted to add that some hospitals and health visitors have targets they are encouraged to meet and breastfeeding figures is one of them. not really any of their business if you do it or not they just need to encourage it as part of their job (rightly or wrongly)
  so relax a bit and do what you feel is best.
I gave myself goals - one day at a time mostly and was surprised at how long i lasted in the end as it was the hardest thing i have ever done (wouldn't put myself through it again if it was as difficult as the 1st time) (sorry to everyone who has heard this all before - i cearly still have issues with it all     )


----------



## Lindz

Thanks Spooks   sorry you had a hard time BFing too though glad I'm not alone!
That's exactly what I've been doing. My original target was 4 weeks so I'm not doing bad. Was just depressing that I calculated yesterday that I currently spend about 1 day a week expressing which just seems crazy! That time could be spent playing with the babies or SLEEPING!! Speaking of which...zzzzzzzzz 

xx


----------



## spooks

don't want to persuade you in anyway; but i would seriously think about 'dumping your pump'    and just do as many breast feeds as you feel like - it was such a relief for me and whilst i admittedly didn't have enough milk to sustain baby spooks i had enough for a little starter course before her bottles and then there wasn't the big thing of 'today is the last day i'm BFing' it just sort of stopped. fenugreek capsules (from health food shops) also kept my supply up but they do make your milk a strange smell (like curry)  (not that baby spooks ever minded)


----------



## snoopygirl79

Lindz - I completely understand how you're feeling as I went through the same when I BF my 2. I was also pumping and feeding them and also getting DH to top them up with formula sometimes and I managed for 6 months but I really didn't enjoy it    I wish I could have enjoyed BF but I always felt like it was a chore and feeding one, then the other is very time consuming but then I couldn't feed them both at the same time as one always couldn't latch on properly so in the end if was quicker to do one after the other!! I felt completely pressured into BFing by the hospital and I wish I have had the courage to stop earlier so I could have enjoyed the earlier months a bit more but then I also felt completely guilty when I did stop as well    But it is your decision and it sounds like you've made a good one, especially as it feels like a weight has been lifted for you. And BFing twins is very hard work so congrats for doing it as long as you have and it sounds like you'll continue for a bit longer anyway so you're doing an amazing job!!


----------



## teresal

lindz -- just to chuck my twopence in, i think you have done fantastic feeding two babies the way you have    well done to you    

afm -- had a lovely time in Edinburgh with Marge and DS, who by the way is absolutely beautiful, he has the biggest brown eyes i have ever seen, he is going to be a real heartbreaker. thanks to you both for the day, we really enjoyed it, even if we did nearly miss the train back   , had a couple of nutters in our coach on the way back (had to be ours of course)


hi to everyone, hope the weekend is going well


----------



## margesimpson

Teresa -   Really kicking myself for not getting a cuddle from M!    Next time - I'll do it first thing!


----------



## Lindz

Aww, thanks so much everyone for you're support!

Snoopygirl- wow, 6 months, that is amazing! I've got the same problem with not being able to get them both latched on properly at the same time. Also they're both bad with wind and I think DS has a bit if reflux so really have to do one at a time. 

DH is away for the next 4 nights, hate doing the night feeds on my own, it takes soooooo long! 
Xxx


----------



## margesimpson

Linz - you are amazing - no chance that DH would be away 4 nights! 
Mx


Gawd, it's all gone quiet....did I say something wrong?


----------



## teresal

Hi Ladies

whats everyone up to this weekend, you are all being very quiet, all up to no good i suppose    

some good luck wishes from you all would be good, got the in laws coming tomorrow    , they CAN'T come till about 3pm cos they HAVE to go to mass first, god sake they are both retired can't they go anytime   , suppose the later they get here the less time i have to spend with them

let you know how it goes on monday, if i survive


----------



## carrie lou

Oh dear Teresa, I do sympathise - your in-laws sound scarily like mine!!! I would be glad they're not coming till 3, that can't leave them much time to spend at yours!   Good luck, I'll be thinking of you    


AFM - have spent a lovely day sewing with my mum. We're making a quilt for my sis. DH has been away all day visiting his grandmother who's in a nursing home. Only one day left at work, after Monday I'll be on maternity leave - yay!


----------



## Lindz

Good luck tom Teresa. If it helps the highligh of my weekend so far has been DD doing a poo. She hadn't been for 5 days and I was starting to worry!  

Hope everyone is having a more exciting weekend than me xx


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## margesimpson

Teresa - best of luck. hope it goes well - just think, if they don't get there until 3, they'll leave once M goes to bed and that's it over! Their loss though if they don't want to spend more time with M. At least you're being a supportive of her getting to know them as possible.    by the way about work!


Linz -    wowsers! poor wee DD. Although I've a friend whose wee one started only going about once a week  and no ill effects of it. Has the HV said anything about it?


Carrie - yippee! only one day to go! what are your plans for maternity leave?


Mx


----------



## Lindz

I know Marge! Apparently anything upto 10 days is "normal"  doesn't sound great to me though. When she did go it was pretty impressive. My sister got the nappy but by the end she'd drafted in 5 others to help!

Wow Carie, enjoy mat leave. Make sure you do all the things you might not have time for for awhile like get your hair done and stock up on food and stuff for the freezer. Above all though relax and enjoy it. 

Right, breakfast is expressed so back to bed for me x


----------



## teresal

thanks for the good luck wishes, was thinking about you all this afternoon while i was counting to ten a lot anyway its over and i have survived (just), lets hope its another 4 months before they come back

lindz, that seems a long time, if M doesn't go for 2 days i tend to give her orange juice (freshly squeezed) and that gets her going again, is quite normal for them to get more constipated seemingly being on formula


----------



## margesimpson

Gulp!   


Mx


----------



## juju81




----------



## *ALF*

Marge - just read the last line on your signiture - you going again?


----------



## margesimpson

ALF  - yes, we're hoping to. Scary and exhilarating. I know we must seem mad/foolish/selfish but it feels right for us.
Mx


----------



## pippilongstockings

Marge, you don't seem mad/selfish/foolish at all! Well, maybe the mad thing is right........   

Sorry I've been awol everyone, we've had a hard few months here    Zachary has finally been diagnosed with reflux and we're begining to get somewhere with getting it under control.  We saw a private paediatrician last weekend after months of banging our heads against a brick wall with our HV, GP and A&E paediatricians - best money we've ever spent!  A few changes in his medication along with his dairy and soy-free diet and he is a different boy    He even slept well last night which is a miracle! The lovely private doc is even trying to get us a referral to great ormond street to see the GI paediatricians which is something we've been trying to get for ages.  I'm so relieved, it's great to actually hear someone say that he is not normal and that it's not our fault!  I had almost convinced myself that he was how he was because I'm a terrible mummy.

Sooooo, that's why I've been away for a while. I'm going to try and catch up over the next few days then I'll be able to contribute again - lucky you   

Better go, the garden isn't going to sort itself out unfortunately.  I'm going to get out there while Z is asleep.  Yes, he's asleep.  In the day.  In his cot.  Without my boob in his gob.  Without a dummy. Woohoo!


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

ahh pip,    glad you have him sorted.    I remember when we had a massive blip with DS when he was 4mths, all he did was scream when i put him to sleep. I said to DH that the baby obviously doesn;t like me   

It must be a bad reflux for it to carry on this long,. Hope hes ok, and hope YOU get some sleep.


----------



## Lindz

Lovely to hear from you Pippi. So glad Z is feeling better. 
X


----------



## *ALF*

​WOULD LIKE TO WISH EVERY​​​YUMMY MUMMY / YUMMY MUMMY TO BE​​​A WONDERFUL​​​MOTHERS DAY​​​​                ​​​​​


----------



## *ALF*

Marge - mad/foolish yep, selfish no!

Pippi - glad to hear you're finally getting some answers for Zac. You are a wonderful mother, you're instincts told you something was not right and you persued it till you got the help you needed - Zac couldn't ask for anymore   

Lindz - how's the feeding going?

Love to all
xxxxx


----------



## teresal

Happy Mothers day to all you special mummys and mummys to be, hope you are all having a lovely day

xx


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

marge - Yep MAD!        But certainly not selfish, why would you think that?   

happy muvers day y'all   

Tezza - how is M doing with her milk and night feeding and breakfast?


----------



## teresal

mini -- shes not taking as much milk now (probably went the other way actually) but i just let her have what she wants with it (probably not the right way to do it but hey it works for us), breakfast is still a bit dodgy, is getting better than she was, i give her rice krispies/coco pops/frosties etc and she seems to prefer them to porridge and stuff. nights have been great until 2 nights ago and shes started waking twicw, no reason just a little cuddle and she goes back down no probs, does take me forever after that to get to sleep so i am knackered, knackered anyway now i am back at work, done first nightshift on wednesday and       DH didn't even dare look at me on thurs night     , don't think its going to work well and have 2 nights this week, really don't know what we are going to do if i can't do this. have phoned tax credits and we are not entitled to working tax cos DH makes more than 18K a year    can get child tax but its worth nothing and seemingly halves once M is 1 (do babies get cheaper once they are 1?) anyway have a lot of thinking and talking to do this week once i have done my 2 nights 

hows Merediths intended doing, keep showing her pics of him so she knows who he is   


hi to everyone else, am in the middle of my sunday cook off for Merediths dinners


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

why is it not working now you are working? Is it cos you can't leave M? I'm back at work on wed too    really don't want to go but if i don't we can't p[ay the mortgage    and have to go around naked    
With the milk, yeah just let her take the lead. Lucas went right off milk and i was worried but as long as they get milky food or calcium rich stuff then its fine. I;m glad hes done it now saves me having to wean him off it!    The waking could be teeth. DS woke the other night and we were up from 230-4am   

Pinkcat - most babies need to be weaned off from what i;ve seen, they are all so different, i was surprised when babies DSs age were still taking 7oz per feed, this is why i panicked when he dropped feeds straight away but now i know he probably prefers his grub and sees milk as a drink now. Give Josh water through the day in a tommy tippee cup then he;ll get to know that water/liquid is for thirst. 

Hope you all had a good day


----------



## teresal

mini -- the only reason its not going to work is that i am so tired, working wed and thurs nights (9pm-7am) with only a couple of hours sleep. M is fine she is in bed and doesn't even know i am away, DH has been getting up with her more and does more in the morning so shes used to him doing that now (still doesn't know how to colour co-ordinate tho   ) but he leaves at 10.30 so i have to get up at 10.15 to jump in the shower and i was late out last thurs morning so didn't get in til 8am and took ages to get to sleep so only had an hour then had to get up    i'm not very plesant without some sleep   . we decided to just see how it goes in the next few weeks then decide what i should do, still looking for something else that starts earlier and finishes earlier (my sister has said that she will look after M till DH gets in if i can find something that fits in with her work as well) damned money    wish we didn't need it.
what teeth, think she is keeping them to herself for some reason


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Oh god, i used to hate doing nights and with a baby can't be good. My friend used to do that, she worked oposite her DH and she never got any sleep. She used to lie on the sofa while baby played   
Its good your sister will have her. Take her offer until something else comes along. we are paying out £300 a month for child care and thats only 2 half days a week at nursery. We'll see how it goes, and once my parents move closer i;ll look at it again and might pull him out of it.


----------



## teresal

its crap isn't it, did look into putting her in with a local childminder (i don't like her but seemingly shes good with the kids) but was going to take half my wages so wasn't worth doing as it would turn into a cycle of working more to make more and still paying half to childminder. just have to find something that fits in with my sisters work, only thing i am worried about there is if she decides all of a sudden they are going away for a holiday (which they tend to do) or she gets fed up with being tied looking after M. am hoping M will continue to have her 2 hour sleep on an afternoon so i can nap then, otherwise i will definately have seen my    and that won't be good. will be good when your parents move nearer you and they can take some of the childcare for you, its really expensive isn't it. how many days are you going back to work? wish i still had my mum then she could have looked after her for a few hours a week
anyway am sure all will sort itself out in the end

xx


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

i'm doing 30hrs, 3 days in the week and then every other weekend.    MIL is having him for 1 and a half days,


----------



## northernmonkey

Hi ladies,

hope you all had a lovely day yesterday.  I've decided mothers day is so much better than birthdays - you still get a card and pressie but don't get any older.  Result!!  DD still hasn't grasped exactly what it's all about yet though - she wished me happy birthday when she handed me my card, bless her.  

Just a quickie cos dd2 is waking up-

Teresa - I don't know how your typing skills etc are, but a lady I know does medical secretarial work from home.  She is with some sort of agency and just logs on whenever she wants to do some work and basically does whatever she can.  She said there are loads of companies out there who do similar so perhaps worth thinking about something like that?  

Right, madam is getting impatient now, gotta go.
x


----------



## teresal

NM -- that sounds good, any idea who she goes through. bless DD1 at least she realises its something special    

mini -- thats good you have MIL to leave him with, have you tried him with the childminder yet, if so how did it go    

xx


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

no not used a child minder. Hes fine with MIL. With child minders the baby has to fit in with their routine so if they have kids to pick up at differnt times it could be awkward with sleeps etc, and if it won;t be good for my insane routine/OCD!


----------



## northernmonkey

Mini - you're so lucky having a MIL who will stick to what you want.  I did the GF routines with DD1 - I know it's not for everyone but the minute I deviated from it dd became really unsettled.  I know my inlaws thought I was a complete control freak (not just over that actually but other stuff too) and as a result I've hardly ever left the girls with them (actually, dd2 has never been left with them) because I know they would have done things totally their own way and it would have wound me up no end. OK, perhaps I am a control freak having read that back....    

Teresa - will find out who the agency is, she did say there are loads out there so something should come up on google.

Pinkcat - DD2 wasn't interested in solids either until 8 months when I cut out her mid morning milk then she suddenly took off on the solids.  Just shows how different they are because at 13 months DD1 still had 4 milk feeds and 3 solid meals a day.  

Pippi - do you mind me asking where you saw your private paediatrician?  A friend of mine had her little boy a year ago and still barely has any sleep due to him crying so much.  She's trying dairy free with him at the moment but other than that is pretty much at a dead end with the HV etc.

x


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

No, I am a control freak!!   
.........but i helped a friend who thought her baby had colic, it wasn't, she was tired cos she wasn;t being put to bed at 7pm! I saw her today and asked her if she still had colic, she siaid she never had it, it was pure tiredness cos she wasn;t in a routine, she had her routine written out on a board and it was exaclty the same as mine    good old Gina!    she is now a control freak just like me!


----------



## Lindz

I'll joint the control freak club. I have copies of the twins GF-ish routine stuck on the fridge at my parents and DH's for people to refer to!!  
X


----------



## northernmonkey

Mini - I was like your friend - when dd1 was 3 months old I was at my wits end because she screamed every night when I put her to bed.  I tried everything, then gave Gina a try and hey presto, for the first time EVER, I put dd in her cot at 7pm and she gave me a huge grin then went off to sleep with no crying whatsoever.  

Lindz - I think her routines are great for hubbies (to use for the babies that is, not for the hubbies themselves - just had a picture of me swaddling dh and putting him down for a nap at 9am   ) My dh would never have put ours down for a sleep if he hadn't have had an exact time to do it.


----------



## pippilongstockings

MN - just a quickie as on phone. We saw Adam Fox, he's the top allergy specialist in the country. He works at great ormond st but we saw him privately through Viveka in Bushey (also works in St Johns Wood) - should come up on google. Also saw brilliant dietician - Tanya Wright. X


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

I work in Bushey


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

You will see that I have changed the name of this thread! This is due to some of the re-organisation and changes happening. You may have noted some of the boards on FF have been moved around recently.

There are some new guidelines that everyone should read ...

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=260253.0

Please keep pregnancy and baby chit chat to this thread and happy chatting


----------



## teresal

Good luck tomorrow Mini, hope it all goes well, bet it will feel like you haven't been away by the time you finish


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥




----------



## sweetdreams73

Hello ladies I recognise a lot of names on this thread from the "anyone using donor thread"    as been told off!! on that thread   thought I would see if ok to join this thread...hope you dont mind?

For those that don't know already from the other thread a bit about me!!

Me and DH have been trying to have a baby for four years and it was only after trying for a year and a half we found out after tests that DH was azoospermic and also has a genetic chromosome abnormality which sadly means he is unable to produce a healthy normal baby.  So after a lot of discussions and soul searching we made the decision of using a "sperm donor" to have our baby together&#8230;

We have had TX of 5 x dIUI's and 1 x dIVF&#8230;.The third IUI was successful and we got a BFP and our first scan at 6+2 showed a HB, then the second scan at 8+4 showed that there was then no HB&#8230; we were heartbroken and devastated  but decided not to give up so decided to try IVF&#8230; I was very lucky and responded very well and we ended up with 7 x top grade 5 day blasts we decided to have just one single embryo transferred as the risk of twins with two embryos put back&#8230;.and freeze the other 6 x embies... Unfortunately three days after ET I was admitted to hospital and had to stay for 11 days as I had severe OHSS&#8230; we had our first scan at 7 weeks and was totally shocked and surprised when our consultant said he could see two heartbeat's   as you can imagine this was a massive shock as only having one embryo how could this happen apparently the embryo split after day 5 of being transferred and split into two identical twins&#8230; this is rare and doesn't happen very often and is a real blessing and miracle we think!!! We are very happy that it is twins  although has taken a while to get our heads around the shock!! However, this pregnancy is considered very high risk and has potential complications that could possibly arise, as the twins share the outer sack and membranes and the placenta they don't have their own like most twins do&#8230; they do have their own amniotic sack thank god!! But because they share the same placenta there is a risk that one of the twins could get too much blood supply and the other not enough, so if it got serious we could end up losing one or both of our twins..  I have to be very closely monitored under consultant antenatal care at UCLH hsp in London and have to be scanned every two weeks until 34 weeks and then if no problems before that a planned c section at 35 weeks and then twins in neonatal unit for a week or so sadly!! so we pray every day and we are grateful every day our twins are doing great&#8230;. Our EDD is 6th Oct (40wks) but the delivery date is 35 weeks which is 1st Sept.

Sorry girls have rambled on a lot, hope you haven't all fallen asleep 

Was wondering if anyone lives close to the Uxbridge area in middx as it would be so lovely to meet some other bump mums and mummy's already?

Look forward to hearing all about everyone and their latest news and how they are all doing with their bumps and babes etc....

lots of      

sweetdreamsxxxxxx


----------



## JanaH

Hi SD, I'm so happy for you and DH. Glad they keep a close eye on you.     that everything will go well with your pregnancy and twinnies.


----------



## Fizzypop

SD - welcome to this side of the board! Glad all going well so far.


----------



## Ella*

*SD*, what a lovely story, many congrats. Wow, imagine if you had two put back!

Hi everyone else. I am pretty rubbish at posting at the mo. What gorgeous weather we are having!


----------



## Lindz

Hello and welcome SD. How are you feeling? 

Juju- so, sleeping through at 16 weeks, how do you manage that then?? They're still waking at 10 (dream feed), 2ish and 5! Argh!

Xx


----------



## teresal

mini -- how did it go today, was L with the nursery or MIL? thats me just getting ready to leave, M has been a nightmare today and decided that she wasn't having an afternoon sleep so has been whining since 5pm and has been up 3 times since i put her to bed at 6.30, i think she knows something is happening and just wants to sit on my knee   

hi to everyone   

welcome SD


----------



## amandaloo

Hi ladies

Can I join you please  , I'm like sweetdreams been on the donor thread and know some of you already...

For those that don't and this is a super short version my DH was diagnosed with azoospermia, and we were told DIVF was the treatment for us. We waited for what felt like forever as we had treatment on the NHS. We were extremely lucky and IVF worked for us first time round. I'm currently 28 weeks pregnant just started 3rd trimester today   where's the time gone!

I've left a couple of threads today as I feel like I need to be in a place where I can talk freely without worrying about upsetting ppl and hoping this thread will be "the one"  

Amanda x


----------



## Ju2006

Welcome and congrats SD.  My friend gave birth to identical twin girls just before xmas 2010.  Like your twins her twins shared a placenta but had their own sacs.  She went into natural labour about an hr before being induced at 37wks, she had a normal delivery too (albeit it a tear   ).  She was closely monitored (scan and consultant app every 2wks) and had a straight forward pregnancy.  Despite being born 3wks early they weighed in at around 6lb each (give or take a few oz's).  Wishing you all the best for the rest of your pregnancy and I hope my friends experience gives you some reassurance !


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

I hate work   

DS didn't eat much or sleep at nursry    I hate working   

Welcome newbies    I know you all anyway!   ................with all these bumps pippi is going to get broody again!


----------



## teresal

me to mini, i am absolutely shattered and thats me had 2 1/2 hours sleep this morning and that will be it now till tomorrow, have just sat and cried cos am so tired already ans still have tonight to go, anyway no point in moaning about it will just have to get on with it if we want to live 


hi amanda


----------



## carrie lou

Hello ladies   


Sorry have been absent from this thread for a while so thought I would pop on and say hi ...


Teresa you poor thing, you must be absolutely exhausted! can you sleep at all in the day when M has a nap?    


Mini     I hate work too! Have decided I definitely prefer maternity leave and might not ever want to go back!   


Lindz - how are your twinnies doing?


 Pippi, Amanda, SD, Ju, Ella, Fizzy, NM, Hazel and everyone else  Hope you are all enjoying this lovely weather


AFM - just been visited at home by my MW to re-check my blood pressure which was a bit high when she saw me on Tues but now it's more normal. Can't believe I have less than 5 weeks to go now!  But nursery is all pretty much organised and hospital bag is nearly packed, so I have time to put my feet up for a bit now.


----------



## Lindz

Hi Carrie. Glad your BP has gone down. Mine wasn't too bad when the midwife did it but was always really high when I had a consultant appointment! You sound super organised so now you can have a proper rest and enjoy the sun. Me the gorgeous monsters are doing well I'm pretty tired but probably not as tired as Teresa! Off to my parents for a few days tonight so looking forward to the help and my Mum's cooking! X


----------



## *Suze*

hi ladies

i didn't realise we were on a new thread!!

i know i dont post often but read alot so can i be added to the list

Libby Pauline born 19th December 2009 6lb DS ICSI

love
Suze xx


----------



## sweetdreams73

Hello ladies, thanks very much for the warm welcome, and lovely to see so many familar names

Suze - Congratulations on the birth of your daughter in December, wishing you lots of happiness as a mummy with your family x  

Carrie - glad your blood pressure has gone done thats good news   , mine was high my last apt they did it six times and got me to lie down and do deep breathing and it still wouldnt go down, the following week they did it it was totally normal!! very strange   .. how exciting only 5 x weeks to go for you... seems like not so long ago I remember you posting your BFP! doesnt time fly! x  

Lindz - I am feeling great now.... which is fab... just so much better now I am in my 2nd trimester.. my 1st trimester was pretty tough, having severe OHSS and being hospilised twice, having a leg infection from ivf drug injections and feeling sick just constantly all day and even at night...but it was all worth it to be pregnant with twins and would do it all again if I had to.. how are you? x   

Juju2000 - thanks for sharing your story about your friend   with identical twins, glad she had two healthy babies...wow 6lbs each thats impressive!! I am really very surprised she was allowed to give birth naturally at her hospital, most hospitals really dont recommend it when the twins are sharing a placenta.  My consultant is highly recommending a c-section as if I try naturally their is a risk in labour that one twin can get too much blood supply from the placenta and the other two little which will really not good!! so we are definitely having a c-section... we are not willing to take any risks...Ours will have to be in neonatal unit for a little while as being delivered either 35 or 36 weeks...great to know that it can be all straightforward and great that it is a lovely positive story, thanks x  

Janah - gosh how exciting you dont have long now!! bet you cant wait to be a mummy! wishing you a very smooth and easy labour and birth    x  

teresal - hope you get some sleep hun    must be tough when you are so tired!! hang on in there x  

Mini - sorry to hear DS didnt eat much at nursery   , I can imagine it must be so really hard leaving them in a nursery and going off to work...   Are you working part time or full time?  I am very very lucky and fortunate that I will be a stay at home twin mummy!! When they get older I will look into doing some childminding from home to get some extra cash so can be at home with them... You work in Bushey thats really close to where I live in Ruislip, if you fancy meeting up one day for chat and coffee let me know x  

Amanda - I know totally how you feel hun       ...  I like you just want a place I feel welcome and can talk freely about my pregnancy and all the worries etc without worrying I am going to upset someone or really have to watch what I am saying about it all the time... welcome hun lovely to have you on this thread    x

hello to pippi, fizzy, Ella, hazel, NM, pinkcat and everyone else    x

Hope everyone enjoying the sunshine and having great weekends   

love sweetdreamsxxxxx


----------



## snoopygirl79

SD - congrats on being pregnant with twins!! I gave birth to non-identical twins at just under 35 weeks as my waters broke and they couldn't wait to get here!! My girls spent 3 weeks in the Neonatal Unit which wasn't fun at the time but it was the best place for them. It's scary when they're in there but everyone was so nice and friendly and I hope you have as good as an experience as we had. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat about anything.


----------



## Fizzypop

Hello ladies, I've been a bit quiet recently what with working and being sick...but had good news today. Its a     

However, she was being very naughty and wouldn't get in the right position for 2 of the pictures (they spent about 45 mins scanning me in total!) so have to go back in 3 weeks. They kept emphasising that its not cos something was missing but because they couldn't get a clear enough view of it. Can't wait to see little bubs again, so feel very lucky in that respect.

Love to everyone else. Got to dash as I had to log onto work when I got home from the hospital


----------



## juju81

Ahhh fizzy congrats on ur little pink bundle of joy   now the fun part, thinking of a name  will u be divulging or will it be hush hush on here?!


----------



## Fizzypop

Ah, I am sure I will be sharing it with you - I am crap at secrets!!


----------



## carrie lou

Congratulations Fizzy, that's wonderful news!!!  My LO was also naughty at my 20 week scan, he was tucked right down in my pelvis facing away from us and i had to do some fancy acrobatics to get him to move   On the plus side, you get to see her again soon!


----------



## teresal

Fizzy -- Congratulations honey     Girls rock    but then i would say that   

xx


----------



## Lindz

Congratulations Fizzy. My little girl was naughty at the 20 week too and they got me to go outside, drink some coke and jump up and down. They still didn't get a great view so going back in 3 weeks sounds like a better idea!

I'm soooo tired. Off to bed for an hour before the dream feed 
Night night x


----------



## JanaH

Fizzy congrats with the girl    

Hope everyone else is doing well.


----------



## Ju2006

Fizzy - welcome to team pink.......pink is great ! LOL ur halfway aswell, that has gone really quickly !


----------



## amandaloo

Fizzy- Awwww congratulations     great news bet you are over the moon  

Hope you other ladies enjoyed the weekend sunshine  

Amanda x


----------



## Fizzypop

Ju - on the name front, I like the name Mya. It literally means "long wished for child". How fitting is that x


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Ds slept at nursery today and Monday!!   mummy still hates work


----------



## amandaloo

Hi ladies

can I ask you a question      do you have to wash the baby clothes etc that you have purchased before baby is born. Sorry know its a bit of a weird question..

Fizzy- Love the idea of Mya

Mightymini-    booo to work


----------



## carrie lou

Hi Amanda,
Yes I think you are supposed to wash everything before using it, it's to remove any chemicals that might be on the fabric.


Fizzy - beautiful name  


Mini - glad DS is settling in at nursery but   to work!!!


----------



## Fizzypop

Amanda - yes i think you have to wash stuff because of their delicate skin. Only thing I am confused about is whether to use our normal washing powder (aerial with febreeze) or whether need to change. 

Mini - see he is settling in, before you know it he will be waving you off at the gate and you'll still be wondering if he's okay. Shame about work. I will be going back full time (unless I can get 4 days a week - which I doubt), so not looking forward to that. But been saving hard and am hoping to have my full year off. At least if I don't take it, now DH can take it so one of us will def be off til august 2012 

Any recommendations on prams/travel systems anyone? I need something that is light and folds up easily and small, so that it's also easy for my mum. I've seen the Jane Rider which does all of these plus has a pram that can be used as the car seat when they are very small and like that idea. But it's v expensive. Just wondered if anyone had any other ideas? We're going pram shopping on Tuesday!


----------



## amandaloo

Fizzy and Carrie-thanks for that was wondering if I should or not, i think you have to wash them in fairy or non bio?? not quite sure. Fizzy- also just wanted to add I got a quinny buzz they are very easy to use its a travel system one. My hubby can put it all together etc so it must be easy !!


----------



## carrie lou

Fizzy - I think you have to use non bio. I used fairy non bio but probably any non bio is OK. not really sure though.


Re pram choice - I'm afraid I handed the whole thing over to my DH as I found it just too confusing  and being a bloke, he quite likes anything with wheels! Anyway he settled on the Micralite Toro travel system. It came with pushchair, carry cot suitable from birth, and car seat. It got very good reviews apparently and is not as expensive as some other brands. Ours is in bright yellow   so at least we will stand out from the crowd!!!


----------



## juju81

Amanda, I didn't wash anything apart from the sheets!!!!!!!!  I don't think u have to but alot of people like too!! I preferred to sit on my bum as opposed to wash about 100 items


----------



## juju81

Oh and I just wash noahs in our normal washing powder bold 2 in 1! His skin is fine

Also, babystyle oyster all the way


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

we are in the oyster club too!    

I washed his first stuff then couldn't be bothered after that!


----------



## juju81

Oyster, oyster, oyster.........but please no chavvy bright pink or you can't join our club


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Just read that Ceci had a boy, Joshua 6lb 4   congrats hun


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

People say to wash everything in non bio, but of course if you are not sure of size and want to take it back you have to leave as sold.

I really liked the Uppababy Vista at the baby show - voted best pram system by which in February. It is £540. It has all the features I love and seemed very easy, although quite big.

I could not justify the cost when I was offered a secondhand Bugaboo Chameleon for £275.
In some ways I wish I could afford to splash out on a new pram, but we are going to be short of cash on mat leave as I am really the only breadwinner while DH tries to get his business going. 

Some like the Bugaboo Bee. You can get them second hand at a lower cost.


----------



## juju81

Mini, where have u been hun     altho actually it wasn't announced in here I don't think!!!


----------



## margesimpson

Huge congrats to Ceci and Mr Ceci. Welcome to the world Joshua!       

Fizzy - We're in the Babystyle Oyster club too (in green) - and still really pleased with it. Although we did buy a fold down Chicco from a friend to travel with and although I don't like it nearly as much, it would do fine from birth apparently. These types of pram don't face you though and I couldn't bear to miss on all the expressions and little noises! We also bought the carry cot bit which was used really well for the first 6-7mths but then not at all. It's up to you how much you think you'll use it, e.g. going for long walks so baby can go to sleep really well in it. We had a friend who just used the car seat or the normal pram bit with a blanket in the bottom to level it out a bit.  Added bonus is that the pram cover can fit around the maxicosi carseat we bought.


Amanda - After seeing a horrible image of a breast infected from wearing a new bra that hadn't been washed, I tend to wash everything I buy before wearing it (unless it's a new top for going out that night!). So washed all the baby stuff first in own brand non-bio powder. I've started buying non-bio for all of us and now just wash everything together.



Mini - I feel for you    Work seems to be looming up now (back middle of June) and so making the most of being off now - lots of cuddles and play time and lie ins! 


Hope everyone else is keeping well and maybe even enjoying some sunny weather?


Mx


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

juju81 said:


> Mini, where have u been hun    altho actually it wasn't announced in here I don't think!!!


  No it wasn't


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## teresal

Marge -- good luck tomorrow honey, will be thinking of you, let us know how it goes    

on the washing front, i washed everything and i mean everything (  ) in fairy non bio and fairy fabric softner and still do all Merediths stuff in it    am sure she would be fine with other stuff now but its just a habit to do it   

we had the Jane Solo with the Capazo carrycot in grey and green, was lovely

xx


----------



## ceci.bee

Thanks guys for the congrats - am slowly getting used to the idea that we actually have the most gorgeous baby and are finally parents - will be on here a lot more now following the baby chat and taking notes  

lots of love
C


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## margesimpson

Ceci - We still marvel at how fab DS is and how lucky we are to be a family. I was arranging with his nursery today for his trial sessions and I can't imagine having to go all day without seeing him!   


Teresa - it went really smoothly, thanks for asking. What a sweetheart of you to remember!   


We're both so excited, scared and feeling positive at the moment, but I'm still feeling really worried about how things will be, especially at work, if I have morning sickness as bad again.   


Mx


----------



## carrie lou

Marge - glad your appointment went well, it's so exciting. I was also very very sick early on in my pregnancy which caused no end of problems at work (not very sympathetic boss  ) so I know what you mean and how horrible it can be. But every pregnancy is different and   you might not be so sick next time.  


Ceci - hope you and your DH are enjoying baby Joshua   


I'm feeling a bit weepy today ladies  I'm so so happy about this baby, honestly I am, but I keep thinking back to when DH had the unsuccessful SSR and we were told he couldn't have a biological child, and it makes me cry, I don't know why. Maybe it's hormones or maybe I'm just being silly.


----------



## spooks

carrie - i had a huge cry (under the covers of my hospital bed  ) about all the donor stuff when i was about the same weeks preg as you are now - probablyhormones and stuff whizzing around - just let it all it out   
you're not being silly - and yes it is great and exciting that you're preg but you are allowed to wish that it could've been achieved in a different (normal, regular) way. No one would have chosen this path in reality so don't feel guilty for feeling like this. 

hello to all the newcomers - I can't do personals there's so many of you! 

 to ceci on the birth of baby joshua 

afm - am just getting over a failed tx  
had a *very* feint positive on OTD which was a definite neg the day after. Also got the due date of the baby i lost coming up and was hoping to be pregnant again before it, thinking that would help me deal with it better    crazy logic i know but there we go. Having a follow up this week to see where we go next but not sure if sibling sperm is available - so naturally feeling jittery all around  .
Baby spooks is an absolute dream though so that's a huge help,
 take care all, love spooks


----------



## margesimpson

Thanks Carrie - my boss was pretty understanding last time actually and may well be again as she's a mum of two herself, but there was a lot of guilt on my part and I worry about being judged - probably because I know I'm taking advantage of the system    I just think our family's happiness is more important. 


Your hormones will be going wild at the moment, I'm sure. It's been a loss though and just like mourning any other loss, it comes back from time to time and feels just as immediate. Starting on the path to trying again has brought it all back to us again. I wish we didn't have to go through that. I wish DH could've been spared such pain. I wish we didn't need to go through treatment again, perhaps running out of swimmers, perhaps never being successful. Now that DS is here though and he's so wonderful, it's more complicated. We love him so much, just as he is. How could we change DH's infertility without never having DS? 


I just read this post to DH and he agreed I should send it. I hope no-one thinks I am minimising their fertility problems - I just wanted to be really honest about my feelings and try to re-assure Carrie that this baby will be so loved and so precious and say that I hope it will go some way to healing their pain.


Hi and hugs to everyone - especially Spooks    I really hope it's good news on the swimmers!     
Mx


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Spooks hun


----------



## carrie lou

Spooks honey I'm so sorry about your BFN.     It must be especially hard with the due date coming up of the baby you lost. I hope your appointment goes well, and I'm glad baby Spooks is such a comfort to you. Good luck    

Marge and Spooks - thank you so much for your comments, I think that's exactly what I needed to hear! Marge what you said made perfect sense. I love this baby so much already and can't wait to get to know him, I wouldn't change anything about him but I know he wouldn't be here if it weren't for DH's fertility problem. It's a strange thought isn't it   I think it's just dawning on me (at 37 weeks pregnant  ) that we will actually be bringing our baby home very very soon and there were times when I wondered if we would ever get to this point. It's a little overwhelming but in a good way. Also tomorrow is the 2nd anniversary of our first ever clinic appointment  and I keep reflecting on how far we've come in that time!

Well I'm off to spend the day with my mum so I'm sure that will distract me from all the crazy hormones!

Lots of love and     to everyone


----------



## *ALF*

Spooks - sending huge hugs        I was thinking about you the other day wondering if you were cycling again.  Hope your follow up is helpfully.  Keep us informed.

Carrie - I had my weepy moment as I was being induced with J - all perfectly normal   . As the others have said not the path you would chose, but once you have YOUR baby in your arms it's a path you wouldn't change. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but those blessed hormones are likely to cause a few more moments like that over the coming weeks, all of which is normal  

Ceci - huge congratulations on the safe arrrival of Joshua   

Love to all
ALF
xxx


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

carrie - i panicked a bit before the baby came, and yes we wouldn't change DHs fertility otherwise we wouldn't have DS.    I thanked DH for 'giving' us DS when he was born, He didn't get why i thanked him but then realised when i explained it   

Pink cat - tell them to    I haven't taken him for ages. Now back at work its impossible. A girl at work only had hers weigjhed twice, hes 2.5 now    Think once they are a yr old you don;t have to take them, if you think hes fine and no probs, eating ok then i would trust your instincts.


----------



## Fizzypop

Mini/pink cat, can't add anything from personal experience but my friend said she finds it easier and you get listened to if she asks hv questions rathe than going to the gp. Not sure if it's the same in all areas but just wanted to add that! This was things like getting referrals for hearing/glue ear/tonsils.


----------



## *ALF*

Mini - I also wrote DH a card when J was born thanking him for giving me J, that many other men wouldn't have agreed to it etc - made him cry (DH NEVER cries). DH loves his wine so I also bought him a bottle to put aside that will be at it's best when J is 18 - told him to put it aside and we'll open it on her 18th and celebrate our family journey to bringing her to adulthood.

Pinkcat - I took J reasonably regularly up to 6 months then 9 month check, 1 year, 18 months and 2 1/2 check.  But then mine are as helpful as a chocolate teapot.  You're his mum, you know him best and whether he's eating okay/putting on weight/developing etc - if your happy with everything then don't go.


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## sweetdreams73

Carrie - can understand you being anxious    , but as soon as you and your DH see your beautiful baby you will just fall so in love and wont even think about it not being genetically DH's.... the disappointment will never go away for you both but it wont seem as important I am sure!! xxx  

Spooks- so very sorry about your BFN   hoping your next cycle will be the one hun to bring you your BFP      and you can get sibling sperm sorted xxxx 

Marge - Your post was just fine dont worry xxx   It is very sad that any of us have to go on this journey of using a donor and having to have treatment to have our babies but like you say you wouldnt change your DS for the world!! I love our precious bump twins already so very much and so does DH but he still makes comments from time to time... I very stupidly said yesterday at our scan without thinking OMG it has my nose.... and the sonographer said yes it will have bits of you and bits of dad... and I just looked at DH and he just looked so so sad  !!! I felt awful afterwards and he even made a comment on the way home that its ok for me as they are half mine but they are not his...  so he still gets really sad at times. I dont think that pain ever goes away but it does get easier.... I really hope that your TX for number 2 is a straightforward and quick journey for you and your DH and you get a lovely BFP first time around         , not easy is it xxx  

Amanda - not really sure if I will wash everything when I get to buying clothes as I am going to have an awful lot of washing to do for TWINS two sets of absolutely everything ahhh... OMG!!! x 

AFM - We had our 16 week scan yesterday another







both twins are doing great, they are both measuring spot on for dates and growing and developing all normal and everything all going very straight forward so far which is a huge huge relieve







, They could not definitely confirm the sex as both in not the ideal position but she said she thought it could possibly be














but we will have to wait to have that *confirmed* hopefully at our next scan in two weeks time at 18 weeks







!!! As for me I have high blood pressure still so told to take it easy and back in two weeks for monitoring again and urine test a bit abnormal so they are testing again to rule out an infection and get the results in a few days time... so hopefully thats all ok..









lots of    to everyone else and hope you all have a fab Easter

lots of love
sweetdreamsxxxxxx


----------



## carrie lou

SD - so glad to hear all is going well with your twinnies, it must be such a big relief  And how exciting that you might find out the sex next time! Hope all your test results come back OK and all the best for your next scan.   

Thanks to everyone for your reassuring comments, guess I was having a bit of a wobble but both DH and I are feeling very happy today as it's 2 years to the day since our first ever consultation at the fertility clinic, and we can't believe how lucky we are to have come this far. I'm off to Aqua Natal this morning, should be fun. I've told DH we just have to finish the gardening this weekend and then I'll be ready for baby to come any time he likes!  

Lots of     and a happy Easter to everyone


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## pippilongstockings

♥ Mighty Mini ♥ said:


> Welcome newbies  I know you all anyway!  ................with all these bumps pippi is going to get broody again!


not a bl**dy chance Mini - my last one has well and truly put me off babies!

Must catch up, so many 'new


----------



## pippilongstockings

Oops, not sure what happened there.....

so many 'newbies' on here, although I know most of you already!  Its lovely to see you all over here, welcome


----------



## pippilongstockings

Wow I've missed so much    

Ceci - congratulations lovely lady!!  I'm so chuffed for you    Enjoy these precious first days, they are so so special.

I can't believe how many of you ladies are due in the next few weeks, where has this year gone??  

Massive congratulations to SD, it's so lovely to see your ticker and to hear you talk about your twins. OMG you're going to have TWO babies!! Wowser   

Fizzy - brilliant news about your pink bundle, so happy for you    I love the name Mya - my sister was going to use it for her little girl but she chose a name similar to my lovely nan in the end.

Carrie - totally normal, we had sad times when we both mourned the biological children we would never have together.  But as someone else said, we wouldn't have the amazing boys we have now if it weren't for DH's infertility and I am thankful every day for them.  If it helps, it does get a lot easier with time.  It's not something we dwell on much anymore, it's just a fact about our family and the way we created our children rather than something painful. Not sure if that makes much sense, I'm totally sleep deprived and can't string words together today! 

Spooks    Stay strong, it'll be worth it in the end   

Pinkcat - I've hardly been to clinic at all with Z (once or twice maybe?).  They don't really bother with you much second time round.  I think I took L once every few weeks until he was 9 months ish but only if I had a question.  Don't go if you don't feel the need x

Eek, have spent too long on here catching up - must wake L up and get to the wine shop before it closes! Need to order the drinks for Z's birthday party.  I can't believe he's going to be 1!  What a year. Fingers crossed for an easier 2nd year with him   

Love to you all xx


----------



## spooks

hi everyone, sorry in adavnce for the me post
  no sibling sperm available and donor is no longer active   
me and dh had a chat last night and both decided it was the end of our tx journey and we'd look forward to being a family of 3 (i even got a tiny bit excited about having a nice holiday this summer rather than spending it at the clinic) - obviously shed some tears too but felt okay about it. The clinic is sending out an SOS for sibling sperm but it said it's very doubtful indeed. 
I woke up this morning feeling like someone had died (that's the only way i can explain it) 
but baby spooks waking up, singing at the top of her voice cheered me up   
then dh woke up and said 'i really think we need to have tx again using a new donor' 
   so now i have no idea what to think, other than, 'well why not?' 

It's so very difficult - is there anyone on here that has a family using different donors - i know it was commonplace a few years ago - i just feel so confused. I had a false sense of security using the original donor as i know he produces beautiful, intelligent, text book babies - baby spooks is an absolute dream and just assumed using him again would produce the same.
Now i'm worried that a new donor's baby (have bypassed the tx and gone straight to pregnancy in my mind    )  may be awful and i wouldn't love it the same and compare it to baby spooks all the time. I was so comfortable using the original donor during my last 2 tx's that i didn't worry about anything at all, now i feel like i did when we first started our fertility journey   
think the way forward is to book an appointment with the donor counsellor (although I find them very non-committal about everything and not much help)
but any thoughts would be gratefully appreciated. 
I'll probably post this as a new topic on the general donor thread later as i don't want to hijack this thread, especially as we have lots of bumps and imminent new baby talk going on   

love to all, from a very confused spooks


----------



## carrie lou

Oh Spooks I'm sorry honey     I have to agree with Pinkcat, you and your DH should take some time to think this over properly before you decide. But my own humble opinion (not that I'm one to talk as my own first baby is not even born yet!) is this: Personally I feel that having to use a different donor would not put me off having another child. I would rather have another baby with a different donor than not have a sibling for my No 1. You must have worried before baby Spooks was conceived about how she would look, what she would be like - I know I did when we were choosing our donor. But baby Spooks turned out to be a wonderful and amazing little person. You might go through that again if you have to choose a new donor, but I'm sure the resulting baby will be just as wonderful and amazing in his/her own way and you will love him/her just as much. I hope this makes sense, I fear I may be rambling a bit  Lots of     to you and DH.


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## juju81

Sd congrats on the girlies, now to think of 2 beautiful names x

Spooks, I understand completely about using a different donor. Noah is just perfect and I worry about how he would feel having a different donor. I know people do but I'm just not sure about it, especially in light of the fact Noah can't have ANY info on his donor but the new baby will be able to. I accepted were a family of 3 and I can look forward to some magical holidays in Disneyland, Lapland etc places we would never be able to afford with 2 children.


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## ceci.bee

Spooks hun         I am so sorry you are not able to use the same donor for another baby. I think we all get attached to our donor when you get pg, and if you can't use him again then you need to grieve for the baby you thought you would have using the same donor again. I agree with Pinkcat that taking a holiday/break with baby spooks and DH to talk about it and think would help, and also to talk to your clinic to see if they have any similar donors. Ultimately you and DH are the parents and create a loving warm family environment for baby spooks which makes her so beautiful and special, and you can do that again with another donor. Maybe talking to the DC network will help as there are lots of couples there who have used different donors (including I think Olivia) to create their families.......and am sure they have had a lot of successful family stories which may help you.

SD am so excited for you with twin girls!!! sooooo lovely

AFm all fine here just slowly adjusting to life with broken sleep leaky boobs and the most beautiful baby I could hav eimagined he sis soooooo gorgeous and cute  

lots of love to all
C


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## margesimpson

Oh Spooks - I'm so, so sorry  
Mx


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Ceci - and so he is!   

Spooks - Hmmm not sure how i would feel. Thinking about it now i;m not sure i would want another donor as like you say, baby spooks is perfect, just like baby mini    and would you want to jepordise it by risking it with another donor, but you didbt know what baby spooks donor would produce and took the risk so you would get the perfect baby again. Remember it would still look like baby spooks as it would come from you too. Its good that DH wants to try again. Maybe the old donor will come up trumps again   

I know what you mean about getting exicted about holidays etc being a family of 3, This is where i am now, I'm loooking forward to the future and putting this Infertility lark behind me., Its so yesterday in our house!!!   

Pippi - How is Z now?


----------



## juju81

Ha, so last year!

Also, I kind of felt my life was on hold having fertility treatment and I don't want to feel like I'm putting all my energy into tx again and missing out on precious time with Noah   (by the way, am not saying any of you who have more than one or going for more are doing that, that's just how my life felt) 

I'm sure yourll make the decision that's right for The Spooks family Hun xxx


----------



## spooks

thank ladies   
you're right we just need time to think things through


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Spooks - I know several families now where the siblings do not look alike!
My DH and his brother are different as chalk and cheese in every way and different to their parents, my friends' children look completely different. I can only think of one brother and sister where I would say you can tell they are siblings, but then they don't look like mum or dad!

People see and think what they want to see and think.
They will have your genes and that might be enough to give some similar features that people will comment on.

I have also had a recent conversation with a colleague who had two children via donor eggs. One from the Lister and one from a clinic in Spain. Her girls look alike, but not like her. They have features that are from the dad, but she says it is amazing how similar they are to each other.

And don't forget, we have all used different donors and feel that our babies are unique and special in every way. 

(I have to say I am having a few anxiety attacks as it gets closer to meeting my baby about what he will be like)


----------



## margesimpson

Hazel - is it anxiety that is keeping you up so late? Posting at 00:09? Tut tut - get as much sleep as you can now!   


Hi and Happy Easter to everyone! Hope you've been enjoying hunting for, rolling or eating lots of eggs!


Mx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Marge - I can't sleep at all at the moment. I toss and turn. My neck hurts so bad, my hips hurt, I have to get up for loo several times. I was awake until 3.30am last night, up at 6am on Friday. Just can't get comfortable.

I thought it was normal to not be very restful at this stage. I really wish I could have a nice long deep sleep.


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

It is normal! And every night after the baby comes too! Actually my best sleeps were when he was a newborn


----------



## amandaloo

hi ladies

Hope you have all had a lovely bank holiday weekend weather has been great eh  

Spooks-   sorry its a delayed reply   , firstly sorry for your BFN     . As for using a different donor its hard to say how id feel as my first isnt here yet, however I dont think it would put me off trying again, however time out to think about it sounds a good plan, holidays are always a good thing  . Hope your ok   

Hazel- Know how your feeling for the past 5 weeks, ive been signed off work  , had awful bladder problems at night was going up to 15 times a night on my worst nights so i was knackered and no way I could work as job hectic think I ran myself down whilst trying to put up with it and working. It seems to be easing now and Im just going as much as any other pregnant lady would do phewwwww and obviously got the other things you are experiencing too . Back to work this week but going back 2 long days a week instead of 4 long days and taking a/l it was either that or start mat leave early.... Hope your ok       

Ceci- loving the new picture  

Sweetdreams- Glad all is going well for you and the twin bump looking forward to hearing the definate sexes soon  

Carrielou- Hope your feeling better, Im sure like the other ladies say its perfectly natural    wont be long for you now then itl be me  

Hi to everyone I havent mentioned  

AFM- well my mananger came to see my last week and we arranged for me to go back to work 2 long days a week, i usually do 4 long days, and Im going to be office based too. Ive counted down and only got 10 more shifts to do at work. Ive decided if its too much just going to start mat leave however bladder problems have eased to normal pregnancy bladder problems and sleeping problems phewwww so im hoping ill be ok. Anxious about returning but im sure once first day out of way will be fine. Ps im so excited cant believe we have got this far


----------



## margesimpson

Hazel - I'm afraid Mini's right. The sleeping is a bit rubbish at this stage. You'll probably sleep better when the wee one comes - although just split up a little for feeds etc. I ended up with loads of pillows to support me. Everyone's different of course, but I had one under my head, one to cuddle, one between my knees and I think one tucked in behind my back to stop me rolling over onto my back. Poor DH hardly had any room left.    I went to bed early every night though and chilled out listening to a meditation CD or an audiobook, dozing on and off. I've had occasional insomnia for years and believe it helps me to spend as long as possible in bed resting, even if I'm not sleeping. Although I've heard it's actually better to get up and do something else?! But I'm too lazy!   Are you getting fresh air? Exercise? Even just a wee walk after dinner with DH might help you get to sleep, although personally I'd be rooted to the sofa!


Amanda - poor thing, I'd be going crazy! Glad you're feeling a bit better now. What do occupational health say? They may be able to suggest a way of supporting you to continue e.g. on reduced hours?


Ceci - cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuute!


Mini - does it seem an age since he was newborn?


Juju - I absolutely know what you mean about putting your life on hold and I worry how poor wee DS will be effected during treatment, not to mention morning sickness etc. I'm hoping by trying again when he's still so little, that he won't be so aware of it? Fab new pic of Noah by the way.


Mx


----------



## carrie lou

Hazel - my sleep is also rubbish I'm afraid and has been for a few weeks  I need a mountain of pillows, just when I get myself comfy I realise I need to get up to go the the loo, or else I get a numb leg from LO lying on a nerve, then I have to move and I'm back to square one!  When I do manage to get to sleep, I often wake up every hour or two - apparently it's your body's way of getting you used to broken sleep for when the baby arrives. The good news is it gets easier when you're on mat leave as you can have cat naps during the day


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

May be it is the exercise thing. I had to give up horse riding 2 weeks ago as the bump is too big and my pelvis could not take it. I am slower and walking less far with the dog, although I still do walk him most days. I also have not been to aerobics on a Wednesday for the last 2 weeks as it is closed for Easter hols. I also stopped my counselling 2 weeks ago as she was breaking for Easter and I felt it was time to take a break and cope alone with all that happened over the last 10 years and look forward to baby and rest. That involved a 20 minute walk there and back. So all in all I am doing less exercise than I was, and this last two weeks is the first time I have gained weight since after Christmas.  

When I have been off I have tried to get a little nap in the afternoon, but this really does make my neck spasm.
Walked all around Bluewater today shopping with SIL today, and did not nap, so maybe I will get some sleep tonight. Although I have to be up really early tomorrow to get to a MW appointment by 8am.


----------



## Vix 1

Hello ladies   

Can I nip on a bit randomly as I am not on this thread officially...but have been reading recent postings very intently about the donor issue. Its only really now that I am starting to have wobbles about what I have done. (donor embryo) and although I think most ladies here are just one or the other ( egg or sperm) I guess I am just looking for a bit more comfrot and reassurance if anyone has any pearls to offer!    At first I was fine - no option if I wanted my own child as partner changed mind at last minute about donor egg/his sperm last year and I had to go it alone. And lots of lovely ladies on here who assured me it would not make a blind bit of difference when I held my baby.

If I am honest, it is recent horrible situation with parents that may have sparked this. Neither can accept the donor bit and have both said my boy will not be their grandchild. They have said they want nothing to do with him. I know this is unnatural and horrid and a lot to do with their own awful childhoods - but it has affected me very deeply. Also there was a posting some time back on a thread I was on - where someone who had a bfp from a donor embie flipped out about it and decided to have an abortion. I know her comments came from a lot of pain etc but the comments along the lines of being a surrogate womb (and I wont go into any more details) hurt me and I can't get them out of my head.

Its not desperate yet and I am still ticking along quite positively - though I can't say I am as excited as many others on F Friends - nor do I have any strong feelings of love which others have described and this worries me a bit too. 

Sorry to interrupt the flow and go on - but usually feel better after sharing on here xxx


----------



## sweetdreams73

Vix - hello hun welcome to the thread, congratulations on your pregnancy..  ...and expecting a boy how wonderful

I am really very sorry to hear that your family are being so unsupportive and that you also had a very upsetting and heartbreaking experience with another girl using donor embryo...    I can only imagine how you are feeling and how hard it is to be told you cant use your eggs or your DH's sperm to have your baby together... sending you lots of hugs   

All I can say is that if I was told that it was not possible to use my own eggs and we had to use donor sperm and donor eggs or have donor embryo I would definitely do it and so would my DH ... As we have already discussed this as I was worried about my egg quality because of my age and me being 38 this year...I am really sure I would find the fact that I couldnt have a child myself just like DH cant absolutely heartbreaking and it would more than likely take a long while to get used to the idea and come to terms with it and grieve for the genetic child that I was unable to have. I am not for one minute saying what you are going through must be easy and not very heartbreaking...  

But for me having a baby with my DH is having a baby created by his love for me and my love for him... the dna of either of us is not important to us... just the love that we have that creates the love for our baby... we are very lucky to be expecting identical donor sperm twins... after a very sad donor sperm miscarrage last year and me and my DH has already bonded with our twins on their ultrasound and he sends them texts every day he is so so excited and I know he will love these babies probably more than if they were actually his own.  We wouldnt change a thing we love these babies for who they are not how they were created. Me and DH have been through so much to finally come out the other side and we will make fantastic parents just like you and your DH will to your baby I am sure... you will love that baby and the baby will love you both so much... 

A baby is not just dna, blood, water, bones, it is also a bit of you and your personality and qualities and a bit of your DH and his personality and qualities... you are the ones that are going to get up in the night and feed them, cuddle them, love them, look after them, cherish them for the rest of their lives... you are the mother and father and always will be... I am sure as soon as you and your DH see your baby for the first time you will be so so in love with him that you wont even think about genetics.. it will be completely unimportant and the last thing on your minds... 

As for your family and them not being supportive     , that is very sad, although people do change and you dont know how they will behave and be when they see their grandson for the first time... babies have a habbit of bringing the best out of people and for making people love them.!!!! If they dont accept yours and your DH's decision and your baby then really they arent worth having in your lives anyway and cant love you the way they should and deserve...

Just remember that what you and your DH is doing is bringing a beautiful baby boy into the world that you can love and bring up just as your own and you will be fantastic parents because of what you have both sacraficed and had to go through and come to terms with in order to get to where you are NOW!...

I wish you all the very best and send you lots of PMA       to deal with your doubts and worries... its never any easy journey but you can get through it and everything will work out all ok dont worry.

Sending you lots of love and       

Sweetdreams  xxxxxxx


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## indekiwi

I don't usually read or post on this thread, so sorry about barging in here...

Vix 1,      My daughter was conceived with the help of donor eggs and sperm so I guess I've been where you are currently - with the major exception that I did not have two really awful experiences to have to contend with.  It is my personal belief that family ties are more than simply genetics.  It sounds like your parents believe that family ties are only genetic in nature.  A comment I was struck by on FF some time ago was that donors are like architects - they provide you with the plans - but you are the builder, you translate the bluprints into reality, you bring them to life.  Your womb shapes and nurtures the baby you carry.  Moreover, as you were shaped by many of the qualities and values imbued in you by your parents and environment, so you will in turn pass down these qualities and values to your son.  I hope that in time your parents will come to realise how extreme their response has been, since in rejecting the son you are nurturing and bringing into this world, they are also rejecting you - and therefore themselves.  

Women who act as surrogates for others are the most amazing individuals.  I have considered it - but the experience of carrying and giving birth to my daughter has proved to me once and for all that I would be unable to carry a baby through to term and then hand it over to someone else - no matter where the sperm and eggs came from.  Since the only person you are being "surrogate" or "host" for is yourself, these terms are moot.  My daughter is as much my child as my own egg conceived son.  It took weeks for me to bond with my son, but seconds with my daughter - I have no idea why it worked this way, but in the broader scheme of things, it simply doesn't matter.  Does it matter that you're not wildly excited about your pregnancy or in love with your bump?  Not really - it's what unfolds over time that is the key.  As I said to someone a while ago, once your baby is born, no other mummy will be stepping forward for him.

I wish you peace as you traverse your pregnancy and into motherhood.  I could say many things about your parents' response and the individual who terminated her pregnancy.  I'm itching to.  But actually, the issues that you raise with respect to both sets of circumstances are not yours, they belong to those people (even if you happen to be related to some of them!).  And in both cases, in my very humble opinion, they are the losers.  Should you wish to chat further about the double donor aspect of your baby's conception, feel free to PM me.  

A-Mx

PS - just seen Sweet Dreams' post - beautifully articulated.


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Vix -    Don't let someone elses feelings about their own circimstances let you ruin your preganacy hun.    When you see your baby for the first time you will not even think about the donor issue. 

As each day goes by you will fall in love with your baby more and more each day. My love for him is so much stronger now than when he was born. My Dh loves him and always has since the day he was born. In fact he was with him when he went to SCBU and gave him his first bottle.   

He will have your characteristics from copying your mannerisms and the way you talk etc. Enjoy your baby, you are not a surrogate at all    He is YOUR son    and like SD said and indekiwi said, its your parents loss if they don't want to get to know their grandchild.


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## carrie lou

Vix I am so sorry you find yourself in this position. It must be awful to finally be carrying the baby you so longed for and to have to deal with people's negative attitudes. 

We are expecting a baby boy conceived with donor sperm and I suspect my in-laws feel the same way your parents do, though they have never had the guts to say it. They are just being incredibly cold and distant towards us and I know MIL in particular has always longed for a grandchild, so I would have expected her to be happy - I can only think the donor issue has got in the way of this. However, DH and I are absolutely over the moon to be starting our precious family at long last and can't wait to meet our little boy in a couple of weeks' time.   We have had a long history of problems with my DH's parents, particularly my FIL who is a very controlling, cold and manipulative man. We have now taken the difficult decision that if they are going to be negative and judgmental towards our child, we would rather not have them in our lives, we don't want our son to be exposed to that sort of attitude purely because of how he was conceived. Believe me I know how hard it is to make this choice between your parents and your child, I have seen how it has affected DH, but our priority now HAS to be our baby and his needs come first always. He is our future, we are starting our own family now.

SweetDreams has put it all very beautifully. A child is a wonderful gift no matter how it was conceived or whose genes it carries, and if your parents can't appreciate that then they are the ones who will lose out - not seeing their grandchild grow up. You can't get that precious time back after all. I can't say I am surprised you're not very excited about your pregnancy what with all these issues going on in the background. But I'm sure when your little one arrives, you will fall in love with him immediately and I have no doubt you will be an amazing loving mother to your baby. And who knows, when the baby is born, your parents might realise what they are missing and change their minds about not wanting to be in his life. I do hope so. 

I send you loads and loads of       and hope the situation becomes easier for you.
Carrie


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## northernmonkey

Vix -    I can't imagine how it must feel for your parents to reject your unborn child.  What have the repercussions of this been - are you still on speaking terms with them?  What was your relationship like with your parents before - are you worried that you'll resent the baby for coming between you and your mum and dad?  I would try not to get too hung up on any lack of excitement or love for the baby right now - I remember just after giving birth to my older daughter, my dh asked me if I loved her.  I instantly replied no - I wasn't at all concerned or ashamed that I felt like that, it just wasn't love at first sight and I knew it would come in time.  Two or three days later and I was well and truly smitten, but we're all different so don't panic.  You say that your parents had awful childhoods - if your wobble is largely down to your parents then try to remind yourself that they have been damaged by other people, and as sad as that is, neither you nor your baby deserve for that damage to continue into another generation.  You will love your baby and hopefully your parents will come round somewhat when he is born.  

Spooks -     So sorry to read of your bfn and that you're unable to use sibling sperm.  If it's any consolation, our younger girl is nothing like dd1 in personality.  DD1 has only ever had one tantrum which lasted for about 30 seconds, but dd2 is already showing worrying signs of a temper much like mummy's.... not good.  She throws a paddy probably four or five times a day and I really do think we're going to have our work cut out with her much more than we did with her big sister   .  So using the same donor certainly doesn't guarantee two similar children. I'm sure you'll reach a decision together that is right for your family but I do hope you decide to go for it.....  Mystic Monkey just doesn't see you with only one child....  

Sorry it's a short one ladies, it's taken me forever to write this as I keep getting interrupted so I've got to get off to bed, will try to get back on over the weekend.

Enjoy the bank holiday weekend,

NM.
x


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## Teela

Sorry for barging your thread ladies but just wanted to send    to Vix.

I cannot say anything more, or certainly not as eloquently as some have said things but wanted to thank you all
as well for somewhat reassuring me. I am going for double donor in about a week and since reading the mail Vix is referring to I cannot get it out of my head either, it really disturbed me  
I have not had to deal with negativity from family or friends as other than FF no one knows my plans   

Anyway thanks again maybe I will be back if I ever get that magical lasting BFP   
Teela
x


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## Fizzypop

Blimey, you lot have busy recently! Hope you all enjoyed the wedding yesterday. I ended up being glued to the tv right up to the bit they said their vows, then only watched on and off! Also am up so early cos have a sickly doggie :-( I just had to get DH up cos there were "accidents" all over the kitchen so now we (me and dog) are sitting on the sofa with patio window open so he can dart out if needed! Isn't this good practice! Only thing is that I am trying not to tough him incase he passes anything to me!!

I hope i remember everyone as am on phone, so forgive me if I forget!

SD - more girls for the club - yay! And 17 weeks already, nearly half way!

Teela/Vix - sorry that you both have had to deal with other people comments like that. As if we do not have enough to deal with on this journey...

Spooks - sorry to hear about sperm situation. For what it's worth I've always thought that if no sperm available for us, then I would look into adoption, but if you think about it, that's just the same as using a different donor!

Juju - you are right in that you feel like your life is on hold during tx. I now feel that a dark cloud has been lifted from over me. 

AFM - slowly but surely me and mum are decorating the nursery, and I've picked out the pram and nursery furniture although not ordering anything yet. Also got to pick out some new carpet so i am keeping myself busy. Am 23 weeks on Tuesday so off for the next scan and hope she behaves herself this time!


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## spooks

hi everyone hope you're all well, 

teela, vix  drownedgirl posted a link about genetics a while ago, I'll try to find the short cut - here it is http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=225956.0
she also has posted about the importance of epigenetics in donor egg pregnancies - if you do a search on here you should find some interesting stuff which will hopefully give you some reassurance and peace.  
I think towards the end of pregnancy everyone has anxieties but in our case we focus on the donor aspect - they are much wanted pregnancies and we did so much to get pregnant in the first place but you start questionning everything you have done to get here. Life is about to change forever and that is a very scary prospect, more so if you are going it alone and have faced negativity from people that have little understanding of the issues. 
Not sure if you know about the donor conception network website - there's lost of useful info on there and many people that have used double donation - also stories from people conceived using donors which are very positive. 
Not sure if your clinic offer donor counselling once you become pregnant but it may be worth finding out or discussing it with your gp/mid wife if you need to speak to someone face to face.

I was a bit like northern monkey in that it took me a while (more than a few days in my case - probably more like weeks  ) to fall in love with baby spooks - it was as though someone had plonked an alien in my arms. and unlike the others that have posted I still think of the donor situation every single day - not in a bad, negative way but it is something which is always in my mind. It took me a long time to come to terms with the fact we had to use a donor and it didn't all become clear once I got pregnant or gave birth - it is something I am still working on to be honest - but I now know we did the right thing and I wouldn't change baby spooks for the world and love her with all my heart. Dh was smitten immediately which made it harder for me to understand why I felt like I did, but I have learned one very important thing - to try to accept the way you feel and not feel guilty for it - just work through your feelings one bit at a time. You have quite a lot of different issues to deal with at the moment - hope you can work through them  hope you decide to stay posting here too  
teela - there is thread for those undergoing tx using donors too here's the link
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=257413.0

afm - sorry can't do anymore personals baby spooks about to wake, just quickly though;
I do hope mystic monkey is right  
we have a donor counselling session booked in a months time so i'm going to take a bit of time out from here for a while (remember saying that before and I was on here more than ever







) 
me and Dh still not entirely agreeing on what to do next - I don't have an issue with using another donor anymore, my text book baby has turned into a crazy toddler this week - so using another donor is fine by me   (think it has more to do with the cheappie chocolate easter eggs family have bought her rather than genetics) joking aside though, I'm not 100% certain I want to go through tx - feel like it takes up so much energy which i just don't have







but on the hand I really do want another baby and we can't have one without the other  
i'll keep you posted (or just ask mystic monkey  )

love to all and speak soon, love spooks


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## carrie lou

Hello ladies, Hope you are all doing well.    

Fizzy - oh your poor doggie, hope he gets better soon. Good luck for your scan, hopefully your little one will be more co-operative this time!    

Spooks - I agree with Mystic Monkey, I see another baby in your future!    Hope it all goes well for you   

Teela - welcome and all the best for your treatment. As Spooks said there is a very supportive thread for people having treatment with donor sperm, all the ladies on there are very lovely   

Hello to everyone else   

Just wanted to get people's thoughts on something ... yesterday we were at my parents' house, my auntie was there too who doesn't know anything about our fertility treatment. We were talking about what our baby will look like, and for some reason the subject of red hair came up and my mum said what a surprise it would be if our baby turned out to have red hair, as I am blonde and there is no red hair on my side of the family. (DH has dark hair and so does our donor.) Auntie then started quizzing DH about whether there was anyone on his side with red hair. I think DH felt a bit uncomfortable so I changed the subject. I wasn't particularly upset about it because I suppose you have to expect these remarks to happen from time to time, but I just wondered how others handle situations like this. I realise it will probably crop up more often after baby is born!


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## juju81

Carrie, just humour them! We do, to the people who don't know, if people said oh he looks like nick we'd both just go ah thanks.  I would have just played along with them iykwim?!

Once baby is here, if people say anything just smile and nicely say thanks. I think it's hard for us as well as I used to stand there and want the ground to swallow us up wondering how nick felt, altho very bizarrely Noah did look like nick!

When Noah was a few wks old I had to ask nick if he felt like Noah wasn't his. He said no not at all. It was just something that was playing on my mind and I just had to ask!!

Not long for you now?!

Spooks, I'm sure your'll make the right decision for your family xxxxx


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## carrie lou

Thanks Pinkcat and Juju.   I guess you're right, there's not much else you can do except go along with them, unless you want to tell them the truth. I just felt bad for DH because I thought he must be feeling uncomfortable, but I asked him afterwards and he said he was actually OK about it. I suppose we'll have to get used to it!


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## *ALF*

Carrie - we would also just go with the flow. TBH DH would probably have turned around and made some quip about the milkman having red hair. And like Pinkcat I've also had conversations with MIL about what traits J has inherited from DH, she will often make comments about J being a true (family name) because of her .... (usually like for chocolate).If DH is okay with comments being made now before baby is born am sure he'll be even more comfortable once baby is here and he actually has the baby in his arms and feels like the true daddy.  I think we often end up worrying on behalf of our partners when actually they take it all in their stide.

Spooks - I have been reading the posts about your dilemma. Afraid I have no wonderful words of wisdom to add just wanted to say take your time and I'm sure you and DH will come to a decision that is right for each of you and your family. Don't be a stranger for too long, but understand the need for a bit of distance, keep us informed though please.   
On the thinking about the donor thing - I used to think about it alot, not in a negative way, but I did realise the other day that I seem to be thinking about it less over the last six months or so, maybe it's something that will lssen with time and I do think it has something to do with J becoming more and more her own person, rather than a bit of me and a bit of somone else (does any of that make sense).

Ohh someone has woken up, better go.............

Love to all
ALF
xx

Vix - I can't add anything more than others already have (and very eloquently too) but just wanted to send loads of hugs   .


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

It has been said before that there is much more to parenting than genes.
Children look like themselves - unique and individual.

If someone asks you about red hair etc you can just say something non commital like wouldn't that be interesting if it was to be the first red head in the family?

My DH used to worry that the baby might have some weird trait - it used to get ridiculous - not red hair and green eyes, he used to worry about green hair and red eyes I think     

Why can't people keep their opinions and speculation to themselves.
My colleagues at work asked me what I would do if the clinic had got things muddled and I was having a mixed race baby. To me and all the family that would be a shock and personally I am not sure how I or the family would handle the baby being so obviously different. I guess that is a bridge one would have to cross. Hopefully clinic mistakes are extremely rare.

I thought my DH's family would be as rejecting of donor conception after some of the horrible things that have been said in the past. They have also said some horrible things about other people's babies being ugly etc. I don't know what is being said behind my back, but right now things seem to be going a bit better and they are getting excited about the baby and are giving me lots of things for the nursery. The donor aspect has not been mentioned at all for months. I am hoping it will all work out. His side of the wider family have just been told that we have waited a very long time for this baby and been through a lot, so they can guess what they like from that.

Vix - I really hope things change with time. My DH's parents said to me about 5 years ago that donor conception was out of the question. But it is not their life - it is mine and if they want to be part of it and nice about it they can, but as soon as there is any meanness then I am off.


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Carrie - everyone comments on how DS looks like me, only at the beginning some ejits at work kept on saying how the clinic got the sperm muddled as he doesn't look like DH    No one mentions that he doesn't look like DH (DH has very big ears and obviosuly DS hasn't got them     )

But like Hazel said babies look like themselves. I must say as he gets older i;m more curious as to know what our donor looks like as DS is such a pretty and good looking baby. I know i'm biased but he is    god knows how i produced him    I reckon the donor is drop dead gorgeous! Is that bad to think that?!!!


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## *ALF*

> I reckon the donor is drop dead gorgeous! Is that bad to think that?!!!


 nope cos ours is too and extremely intelligent with it! 

TBH we rarely get any comments about who she does or doesn't look like - even as a baby people would only really comment on her beautiful big blue eyes but nothing about whether she looks like me or DH.
When she was newborn I will be honest and say I was desperate for people (particularly my family) to say she looked just like me as a baby, but nobody did. I think the reasoning behind my thoughts was that as a girl, it would be so much easier if I could say she was the spit of me, then we wouldn't have to worry about her not looking like DH at all - if that makes sense?!. I am still interested to look back at photos of me at her age to see if there are any similarities, but there is no desperate need to see lots of similarities. One good thing though - she doesn't seem to have inherited my nose  - donor obviously has a nice small nose!!!

I think it can only be natural to see charactoristics in your child that you don't recognise in your family and wonder if they are strong features from the donor.


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

don't think hes got my nose either      Just hope he doesn't have my eyesight    or else he'll be wearing glasses at 4 yrs old


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## eli..g

Hi ladies

really sorry i dont get here much anymore, just logged on and your comments have really struck a cord with me.

I Feel very much like Spooks and am still not ready for number 2, various reasons... no money life to hectic...how would I have time for treatment.. DS1 so hectic dont think i could cope with 2 just like him(even though he's gorgeous!) It also took me ages to bond with him... not days or weeks even.. along time, but time just does that and all of a sudden you are in love with your child you just dont notice it happening. 

""I reckon the donor is drop dead gorgeous! Is that bad to think that?!!! ""    
DS is extreemly fortunate and does not resembol either of us particularly!!  He is aways told by others around here, not knowing our story he is a stunner... not sure where that came from, so can only thank the donor!  And as for the fiery personality and intelegence... that surely didnt all come from me!

Teela.. Grr to your family.. they should be happy for you to do what ever makes you happy!
Hopefully they will come around....      

Love to all you lovely ladies xx


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## margesimpson

Vix - First of all - Congratulations! This baby is wanted and you will spend your life striving to make it feel happy and secure and loved. This baby is a lucky baby. 


Teela - all the best for your journey and really hope you get your BFP soon! 


By the way - has anybody reported the post that you both mention? It saddens me that this forum that should be supportive, has upset you and put doubt in your minds and now you are haunted by those words. I hope all the lovely ladies who have already posted on here have made you both feel a little better with their wise words and kind hearts. 


AFM - we've decided not to cycle this month, but to try the cycle after. I'm terrified of the morning sickness effecting work and DS, but we'd be SO delighted if we were blessed again that I would just have to dredge up everything I have in me and cope.   


Mx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

marge - i think the posts got deleted.


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## nvb

Hi ladies....I'm just wondering if i can join you as I'm struggling at the moment and feel like I'm sinking   

I am 41 and we were advised to move to DE last year. I got my head round it pretty quickly as I still get the best bit (pregnancy) and having been brought up by my stepdad, I know that a DNA bond donesn't make you love someone any more or less. My DP is azoospermic and had a successful TESE in 2008 so we have been using his frozen sperm. It gave us BFN's with my eggs but 100% fertilisation rates. We moved to DE and got 8 mature eggs but only 1 fertilised with ICSI. We were really shocked. The embryologist said the donor had had 'excellent' fertilsation rates with her share of the eggs but due to anonymity laws couldn't release any more information. Our 1 embie was transfered as a 9 cell Grade A and we were elated to get a BFP. We saw a lovely heartbeat at 6+4 but sadly it had stopped at 8+4    Gutted!

We tried to get advice from the clinic but no-one seemed to be able to point us in the right direction. The consultant said that in his opinion it was probably the eggs that were the problem but as we were using TESE sperm he couldn't rule out that. I was tested for basic immunes but nothing untoward was found. Also because I never had any bleeding or spotting, he said that my body hadn't spontaneously aborted the pregnancy which was a good sign. 

After extensive googling    I don't know whether it was the eggs (could the donor have had PCOS   ) a cack handed embryologist (we don't know if the same embryologist ICSI'd both sets of eggs or whether she had normal IVF) or was it the sperm?  

We now have counselling tomorrow to discuss donor sperm as well.....but I just feel at such a loss. There are so many things I want to know answers to but no one seems to be able to help    I actually feel more sad at using DS than giving up on my eggs. I don't know if I can honestly say I am at peace with using DS as well....but then the thought of another MMC makes me want to just curl up and die. I know there is no guarantee the DE+DS will give us a healthy pregnancy but I guess it raises the odds. I am getting pressure off my mum and sister to just go for it....and my DP says he has got his head round it but just says he will always wonder if his sperm could have given us a baby. 

We are running out of money.....do we risk another attempt with his sperm or just move to DS and be done with it?


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## margesimpson

Quick question - do you think it'd be ok to try DS with Haggis? We've got one for tonight and it seems an ideal mushy sort of food?!


Mx


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## margesimpson

Hi NVB, 


I'm so sorry that you're having such a long and difficult time of it. There isn't a right or wrong answer of course, but I remember looking on this thread and the using donor thread as well as the NOA one and the decision became easier over time. There wasn't the same sort of dilemma as you - in hindsight having such a definite answer from the TESE made our decision easier to make. However even after the TESE, when we came to do treatment DH had another sperm test, just before, just in case. 


You're obviously getting pressure from both sides at the moment. You may feel, like me, disloyal for "giving up" on DH's sperm. If finances and time were limitless, I'd say try again with DH's sperm, but you've been trying such a long time already, perhaps it's time to take the next step? Would it be an option to cycle and then fertilise some eggs with donor sperm and some with DH's and let them develop to blast?


I really hope you can come to a decision you're both happy with,
Hugs
Mx


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## carrie lou

Hi NVB and welcome   


Lots of wise words from Pinkcat and Marge but just thought I would add my two pence worth...


I totally understand you and DP wondering if you could have had success with his sperm. We had a TESE that showed conclusively no sperm and no chance of my DH ever having any sadly (he has Sertoli cell only syndrome). This was devastating at the time but with hindsight it helped us accept that donor sperm was the only way forward for us. Unfortunately it is not always possible to have this certainty and you and DP may just have to make the best decision for you and learn to live with the "what if". Nobody else can tell you what is the right or wrong thing to do, you and your DP have to decide that for yourselves. If it helps at all, I am expecting a baby conceived with donor sperm and I honestly don't think my DH could be more happy or excited even if it was genetically his. I think lots of other ladies here would say the same thing. It's just a different way of creating your family.


I wish you all the best with your decision and your future plans,
Carrie


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

NVB - you have to do whatever is right for you as a couple. No one else can decide that for you.
Make a list of pros and cons of each option - the time factor, the risk of a mc, the costs, the chances etc and it might become clearer. Sometimes it takes time to grieve the baby you cannot have and come to terms with having the baby you can have.

Whatever baby you have will be the one meant for you and once here you will love and adore and will not be able to imagine having the fictional baby that couldn't happen, because you have a living breathing gorgeous little one to fill your time and energy. 

Embryo adoption is also an option for you if you go the double donation route - that way no one is having to undergo additional treatment for you and you give an already made embryo the chance of life. It can be much cheaper too, so you could have more goes than the DE/DS route.

Lots to think about.

Also, many, many people have a MMC and go on to have successful pregnancies with or without IVF - one of my friends had 3 before her 2 boys. In fact, out of 5 friends including me, there was only one girl who did not have a MC and 3 of us have had one MC and 1 three MCs. 14 pregnancies between us and 7 babies and me with an ongoing pregnancy - that is almost a 50% mc rate.


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## Lindz

Sorry, just a very quick one. Marge- good luck for next month. Try not to worry about morning sickness, it might never happen. One of my friends had a terrible time with her first preg and almost put her off trying again but had no sickness at all with no 2. She's now very early days with no 3 and waiting to see! X


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## nvb

Hi ladies....thanks for your words of wisdom. 
We had the counselling and the counsellor was great. She brought an Embryologist in who tried to go through as much as she could about our DE cycle. She suggested DP had another SSR and we used fresh sperm but he doesn't want to go through that again and also research shows that there is barely a difference in statistics between using fresh or frozen sperm when it comes to ICSI. She said that we don't have enough sperm to do DNA Frag on and realistically that still wouldn't give us the answers we wanted as the parameters change from sperm to sperm.  We also talked about ICSI'ing some of the eggs with DP's sperm and some with DS...but then we discussed the quandry about freezing embryos and losing some in the freeze/thaw process. In reality we will be lucky to get as many eggs as last time (could be as few as 4) and so could end up with 1 to freeze and losing that....
Ultimately I know now that we have to look at the option that gives us the best statistic for a live birth.....and my head tells me that is going with DS   . We discussed having a double donor baby and then having another attempt with DE and DP's sperm in the future...but that is a no no for me. Once we have a baby then that is it....I will never want to see another vial of buserelin in my life!!!   

Hopeful Hazel....you summed it up perfectly when you said that once we have a baby, it will so over rule any fictional baby....thank you for those extra wise words   

So....my DP is now going to be matched up with a donor. I still feel a little sad TBH but I'm sure once I see that BFP on a HPT I will be totally overjoyed again. 

Good luck to everyone on their journeys. I may stick around if that's ok


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## olivia m

Hi nvb
Just wanted to say that your recent postings have moved me a lot.  This is SUCH a painful business with such very difficult decisions to make.  So very glad that your counsellor was supportive and brought in the embryologist to help with your decision making.
It is not surprising that you feel sad.  This is a loss...but it is also the beginning of new hope and I do wish you and your DP all the luck in the world.
Olivia


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Nvb  - I grieved when we realised we had to use DS. DH was fine but i had to grieve for his baby that we would never have. He wouldn't have DHs big ears or funny knees.    but we wouldn't have our baby now and he is the most wonderful thing ever lived       He loves DH so much and gets so excited when he comes through the door.   (doesn't do that with me    ) 
I;'m with you on the burselin!!!


----------



## sweetdreams73

NVB - I am so very sorry for what you are going through, such a terribly hard journey... sending you lots of     ... me and my DH still grieve for the genetic baby DH can never have but we both love our precious twin bump so so very much and he to my relieve has already bonded with them from their scan pictures... and he is going to be an amazing DAD I know.... its something you never get over but it does get easier in time...having to use DS and DE must be very hard indeed although in some ways you can understand what the other is going through as you are both in the same boat and are both going through the same feelings.... but still such a hard journey.... I so so hope your next lot of TX brings you the baby of your dreams..        .lots of love and   xx 

Marge - so hoping your next lot of TX next month for sibling 2 goes really smoothly and you get that BFP first time...     also really hope the MS stays away with your next pregnancy     

Spooks - sending you lots of     not easy decision.. hope you and DH can make the right decision for your familyx

carrie - Oh hun,     its just so difficult when people just have to make comments and interfere with really something that is nothing to do with them... really wish people would keep their silly comments to themselves at time...  why do people always have this thing about "oh he/she has your nose, has your hair, has DH's mouth... babies are individuals and look like themselves... people will always say the baby looks like who they want it to look like and what they want to see... rather than what is actually the case....

My FIL drives me nuts he is always giving his opinion about the donor issue as he puts it.... sure when our two our born he is going to point out and make comments about what they look like!! ie the milkman's and think he is really funny NOT!!!  he did really upset me the other day as he was saying he didnt think Gay people should get married and have children and use a donor....  he also said he cant understand why we are going to tell our children that they were conceived via a donor.... and when I said that we have made that decision and we are going to... he still went on and on about it and he didnt see the point and its not right etc etc... so I know how he feels about me and DH using a donor then!!!    ... frankly he should keep his opinion to himself its NOTHING to do with him!!ahh...!!

Mini - I am sure your donor is drop dead gorgeous hun (nothing wrong with saying that) as your DS certainly is and sure you are too hun!!  ...  My DH has said about us going onto Xytex website as we did get our donor through our fertility clinic but we were told he was also on xytex and what his donor number was and we have the option as we know the number now of upgrading to the profile where you can get photos of our donor and he has even left a video message....  DH would like to look at photos now but I definitely dont....we will see when our two are born if I change my mind and have a sneaky look at pictures and find out what the video message says... curiousity might just get the better of me!!not sure though if it might just freak me out too much and then I wish I hadnt looked!!

Hello to lindz, spooks, mini, fizzy, pippi, pinkcat, ALF, teresal, northernmonkey, amanda, and everyone else lots of     


AFM - All great at our last scan last week at 18 weeks, both twins doing great thank goodness, twin 1 is a little smaller than twin 2 but consultant not worried about it but are monitoring closely which is great, their shared placenta is supplying the right amount of blood to both twins equally and no signs of that horrible TwintoTwin Transfusion Syndrome condition that they are both at risk of... which we are very very relieved and grateful about.... We did have rather a bit of a SHOCK, it turns out our Twins are NOT girls after all, they are most definitely boys   , no mistaking those dangling bits this time...    , it was a different sonographer last time who told us it was more than likely girls and she was a trainee and apparently it can be hard to tell at 16 weeks if they are not in the best position, so let her off!!!   just as well I didnt go out and buy any pink stuff !! Next scan in two weeks at 20 weeks, cant believe how quickly the time is going by... everyday I thank God and our fertility clinic for making our dreams come true and just   pray our precious two continue to do all ok until their planned c-section at 36 weeks...then I might just stop worrying just a bit!!!! yer right who am I kidding!!   ... then thats when the fun really begins...ahhh....!!! need to grow an extra pair of hands then  ....

lots of love
sweetdreams xxxx


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## margesimpson

Lindz - OMG that would be amazing! But I'm totally prepared to do whatever it takes and I'll be so delighted if I was able to get pregnant again. I will cry though it if hits like last time again     but I'm a total cry baby at the best of times!   


SD - me too!      That's brilliant that everything looked good at the scan and how lovely, a blue bump!     We agreed not to look at the donor's picture etc. It just seemed like too much info for us and we felt we couldn't UNsee it, so had to be totally sure.


NVB - how's it going? Is there a suitable match?


Mx


----------



## Lindz

SD- so glad everything was good with the scan and congrats on ypur two little boys. Bet you'll have to have a bit of a rethink on names! All the way through our preg DD was the smaller baby and they kept an eye on her. When they were born though she weighed more than DS and is still our gorgeous chubby monster.

AFM babies are good and DS in particular is feeding much better and screaming much less so I'm hoping his digestive system has matured a bit and he's got over his colic. He's now probably an easier baby than DD which is something i never thought I'd say. Just goes to show that things dp get better. They're both no closer to sleeping though the night though. I can't even imagine it! I think the last time I had more than 3 hours sleep in a row was when I was 20 weeks pregnant (sorry SD!). Obviously it's more than worth it though. Also still expressing as can't seem to make the break from the blasted pump! Going to try a bit of food this week though as doc thinks it might help with DS's reflux. I'm quite excited, they've been looking longingly at my breakfast for a bit now so we'll see how they go. 

Argh, someone is screaming for their dummy....
X


----------



## juju81

Sd, fab news on the boys. I'd love another boy! 

Hmmm, carrie-lou has gone quiet?


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## carrie lou

SD - so glad to hear everything was good at your scan, and boys - bet that was a surprise!   Welcome to team blue! Sorry to hear your FIL is being weird about the donor issue. My dad was really surprised when I happened to mention that we plan to tell our little one how he was conceived. I think it is a relatively new idea to be open with children about things like that, in our parents' day it wasn't spoken about I guess. But at least my dad didn't try to argue or change our minds! You're right it is totally up to you and your DH how you approach the subject. Can't believe you are 18 weeks already, you will soon be half way there!      

Marge - wishing you all the luck in the world for your cycle next month and hope the dreaded MS stays away this time! It's so horrible feeling sick all the time, but so worth it in the end.      

Lindz - glad your two little ones are well   

NVB - glad to hear you have a plan   The sadness is to be expected, as everyone says you have to come to terms with not being able to have the biological child you'd hoped for. But when you are pregnant and can actually feel the little life growing in you, it won't seem to matter anymore. Lots of good luck   


Juju - still here I'm afraid   

Hello to everyone else  


AFM - still sitting here cooking this baby  and hoping he won't be much longer! I've really enjoyed these last few weeks of pregnancy, being on maternity leave and nesting, despite the general aches and pains, not being able to get comfortable etc... wouldn't say I'm fed up exactly but just really looking forward to meeting our little boy and bringing him home at last! I'll keep you informed if anything happens...


----------



## Lindz

Wow, your really close now Carrie, so exciting. Good luck xx


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## margesimpson

Lindz - that's great that DS is doing better. It must be lovely to see him well and happy more of the time! You might find that solids help with the sleeping through the night too - it did with DS. It really great fun too - seeing their expression when they're tasting new things! I was really keen on trying the baby led weaning, but DS was so hungry and was having none of it! Smooth, smooth all the way, so he could gobble it down super fast.


Carrie - thanks, you're absolutely right - it's so worth it! The last few weeks seemed to drag - I was just so looking forward to meeting DS. There's also the nervous anticipation about the birth and every week someone would disappear from aquanatal of from here, until it was my turn next! By the way sort/print those photos now! I meant to but never got around to it and now I just keep adding loads and still haven't done our wedding album!


With both my SILs now pregnant, I just hope our treatment journey goes amazingly smoothly - how about working first time?


Mx


----------



## JanaH

Hi Ladies,

I haven't been on much lately. Hope everyone is doing well.

SD how are you doing?

Carrie hope LO arrives soon.

Marge hope you treatment works first time.

AFM Today is my due date, and yes I'm still waiting.... SPD is killing me, struggling to walk properly.  My dad and stepmom is arriving tomorrow for 6 weeks, looking forward to seeing them saw them in July last year. 

Have a lovely day


----------



## carrie lou

Welcome to the waiting club Jana!  I'm 5 days overdue and no real signs as yet. I'm seeing midwife on Wednesday when I will be 41 weeks and she's offered to do a sweep - I think I will have it as I'm just so impatient now!!!


It's nice that your dad and stepmom will be around to see the baby. Hope you don't have to wait too much longer either


----------



## Ella*

Carrie & Jana - so close now - v exciting, good luck x


----------



## amandaloo

Carrie and Jana- best of luck you two can't wait to hear your news


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

wow Jama can't believe you are due!!   
Carrie - yeah have the sweep, i wasn't ready when they did mine but the day after my waters broke.


----------



## Fizzypop

What's a sweep? Or do I not want to know!!!


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## carrie lou

Thanks Mini - that's encouraging to know!
Fizzy - a sweep is when the midwife loosens the membranes around your cervix with a finger - supposed to have a good chance of putting you into labour within 48 hours, so I'm going to give it a try! Sorry if you didn't want to know!


----------



## Lindz

Good luck Carrie and Jana. Carrie- I wanted a sweep but wasn't offered for some reason. Have you got a date for induction if nothing happens? Although mine ended in c-section the induction part wasn't bad really x


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Induction was fine too, but i had an epidural from the get go cos i had been contracting for 24hrs, the epidural was fab!


----------



## juju81

Is it tomorrow, I can't look back that far?

Yeah have an epidural! I had one and it isn't work but for those it did work for I know it was good! Why make life hard for yourself when u can take something to make it easier?


----------



## carrie lou

Juju - yes my sweep is tomorrow    it does something, I've been having on-and-off contractions all this afternoon (not painful though) 

Lindz - induction will be next Wednesday if nothing happens but I hope I won't need to be induced because it will mean I can't go to the birthing centre I'm booked for (will have to go to main labour ward instead)

I will see how I go and ask for an epidural if I need one - haven't ruled it out!


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Ooh carrie sounds like it's starting! Don't be upset if u dont get in the birthing centre, most births do not go how u planned it. I wanted bc plus no epidural. I got labour ward epidural and forceps. Labour ward was fab actually.


----------



## amandaloo

owww Carrielou- sounds like your very near      good luck you may not need a sweep now eh


----------



## Fizzypop

Something tells me that Carrie  have news for us over the next few days.........


----------



## sweetdreams73

Carrie - good luck hun with the sweep, hope it all goes smoothly and starts labour off   , and cant wait to hear your news very soon me thinks!!   x

Jana - Wow not long for you now too! hope all goes well, keep us updated x


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## margesimpson

Good luck Carrie!        Perhaps you're already there and it's all happening!


and Good luck Jana!        Hope the SPD disappears once bubs comes along!


Mx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Hi all - been moderating, but do not think I have posted myself on here for a while.

Carrie and Jana - good luck hunnies, not long now!
Bet you cannot wait to have babes in arms!

As for me - all well with baby. Growth scan on Wednesday showed baby measuring 95th percentile, so I am warming to the idea of the consultant suggested c-section as the days go by! I was quite shocked by this as they are saying baby already weighs 6lbs and I have only put on a total of 14lbs since I booked which is good because I was overweight when I started. No diabetes or signs of pre-eclampsia yet thank goodness.

When you take into account the extra 2 units of blood, amniotic fluid, uterus and placenta, I find it strange that baby is deemed so big! He is measuring spot on for fundal height. 35cm at 34w+2d. Midwife says the weight I have gained is only baby related and my abdominal muscles are strong and keeping bump contained. Everyone at work is telling me that I have lost weight in my face, arms and legs. Perhaps pregnancy is good for me and I should stay like this! Am hoping breast feeding will get rid of a load more weight as I could do with shifting a lot more.


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

I was like a heffer!


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

I have to decide on the 6th June when I see the consultant and it will be done around 39 weeks.

If it is done on the 21st June, that will be really weird, because that was my EDD when I was born.


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## Fizzypop

Mini - I've just looked at my scan report they give you and it says "sub optimal views due to maternal bmi". Although bump is measuring the right size so not quite sure how that makes sub optimal views. Hey ho


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## Fizzypop

P.S. Anyone off to the baby show this weekend? I am going with the MIL and an empty credit card, lol!


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

fizzy   
Hazel my birthday is the 21st june! My due date was 28th and DSs was 27th but had him 5th july


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## Vix 1

Darling neglected ladies..hello one and all. I am so ssssssoo sorry    for appearing to ignore the amazing    response I got when appealing for comfort a while back (like almost a month ago!) on the whole donor/feeling utterly alone issue. Its taken so long because I kept meaning to come on and reply individually to everyone who had been so brill and then everything got out of date and it never seemed the right time. However...now I can say THANK YOU THANK YOU everyone. I am not expecting anyone to remember the posts but this list includes: Sweet Dreams, Indekiwi, pinkcat, M Mini, Carrie lou, Teela, Northern Monkey, spooks etc etc. Such wisdom and when i turned on the computer and saw all the replies I was totally overwhelmed.

Some of you had similar issues in terms of family reaction to news of no genetic link etc and some of you have got your heads completely sorted over it - and it was so interesting to hear everyone's different views and feelings. For me, it is the fact I have no other relatives than my parents, and no partner now (it is all very sad) that my need for support (as opposed to total rejection!) was so stark, but I had a bit of a flash of inspiration with the midwife last week and this is it: I worried a lot about ending the genetic link, the line so to speak. Well looking at the awful way my parents have reacted and all the many issues and flaws they still carry with them (and the many failings of my ex) I think it is high time that genetic link was well and truly broken thank you very much!  Yes, this really does comfort me enormously!   This is me doing a Vix-and-Baba-alone-but-free-to start-all-over-again (and do it better this time) family dance!!!!

So thanks again so much for everyone who lept to the rescue and hopefully I can come on and join in more positive chats soon. You are all wonderful xxxxxx


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## juju81

Carrielou, just seen ur message on ask a midwife? I would suggest bounce on a ball until u can't bounce anymore. And u may have tried it or not want to but seriously try a bit of sex, if your having some kind of contraction it may help you

I can only imagine what ur feeling. I'm surprised they leave u that long, it's 12 days over here


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## carrie lou

Thanks Juju  Lovely profile pic by the way. We have tried sex a couple of times in the last few days, to be honest I don't really feel like it at this stage! But I suppose it's got to be worth another try!

I'm so frustrated and angry with my body because it doesn't seem to know what it's supposed to do now  I had hoped to go to the midwife led birthing centre, have a nice normal delivery with one to one attention and come home a few hours later. Now it looks increasingly like I'll be going to the busy labour ward, be induced and probably spend a couple of nights in hospital which I definitely did NOT want. It's quite disappointing but I just have to keep reminding myself that I will have a well, happy baby in my arms in a few days time and that really is the most important thing to focus on.


I feel a bit guilty moaning about this because I know exactly how lucky I am to be having this wonderful little boy, and there are so many women out there who would give their right arm to be in my position right now.

Vix - I certainly do remember your post and it's lovely to hear you sounding so positive and optimistic now. You are quite right in your attitude - when in look at my in-laws and how cruelly they have treated me and DH over the years, and they are genetically linked to him - well, it just brings it home that shared genes are most certainly not the most important part of being a parent!


----------



## Lindz

Aw Carrie  . There's still time. My Mum was booked for induction with my little bro and went into labour the night before.

I know it's not ideal but honestly the induction wasn't as bad as I thought it would be and I was only in for 3 nights and that was with a c section and twins. If you avoid an epidural you could still be out pretty quick. Fingers crossed for you xx

Ju- lovely pic, what a gorgeous, big boy! Xxx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

carrie - I think we all dreamt of a birthing centre with candles and flowers    but i;m afraid its not always like that. I was upset that i didn't go into labour properly (watrers broke then had come rubbish contractions so had to induce) i was in the labour suite but i had a room of my own and had an epidural    The induction was fine, thanks to the epidural. I had 1-1 care. It went smoothly and quick until the he decided to turn sideways    and then i started to bleed, i ended up with forceps, had to push him out in 3 or else c section    But thinking back it was fine that i wasn't in the birthing centre, as i would of ended up in the labour suite anyway. as long as you get him out it doesn't matter how he arrives. 
Look at Teresa, she needed an emergency c section, an boy is she glad of that   
Look forward to seeing your boy however you get him out. I remember feeling like my body had failed me cos i didn't go into labour the 'normal' way also my waters didn't gush like you see on the movies, they trickled    But your body is doing the right thing, your had a show and are having contractions and you are 1cm dilated.  
Hope you feel better soon and your little one makes an appearance soon. Get plenty of sleep cos you are gonna need it


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## juju81

I think the best thing to do is not think of what you want. I had always agreed (in my head) to stay in 1 night, just incase something happened and the midwives were on hand. I ended up staying in 5days because Noah was poorly. I know we keep saying it but you just don't know why will happen. Like mini, I ended up in surgery, prepped for a c-section and that was on the back of going into labour 1week early so it just goes to show whether u are late or early, things can happen. I also had 1-1 midwife care in a hospital - we don't have birthing centres daan sarf (down south) so my only option was hospital. I know of people who have had an epidural and sti be home the same day but you might find ur so knackered that you don't mind staying put for a night or 2. Re u planning on feeding? Some hospitals like u to stay until u have feeding established too.

The only other thing I did different the day and the day before my waters went was go on a long walk  . The end us near Hun, enjoy the peace


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Most people I know who have stayed in hospital 5-7 days thank their lucky stars! They all say it is fabulous to have the support of the midwives and to be able to be taken through those first exhausting days.

My SIL was allowed to stay in hospital for a week (in Australia) as my BIL had to work. Two people at work got to stay in for 5 days because bubs needed treatment - one jaundice due to post maturity, the other apnoea when feeding due to prematurity. 
I was chatting to a girl yesterday who I met when I did the mind body course and she had baby at the Portland privately and was supposed to go home at 3 days, but because it was so helpful she paid for an extra two nights.

By contrast the ones who have been kicked out of hospital early have found it really hard.
You get home very tired with a screaming baby that you do not know and have to fend for yourself trying to get feeding right and everything else.

Personally I would rather have more time in hospital and go home feeling confident that I know what I am doing as this time I won't be able to hand him back to his mother!!!


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

I thought i would want to stay in hospital for a few days but in fact when it came to it i hated it and wanted to come home, I stayed 2 nights and they wanted me to stay another but i refused and told them i was going or else they get me a room of my own    ...........they declined    once i was home i felt so much better.    my own bathroom and toilet    MY OWN BED!!!    and no screaming babies only my own!


----------



## carrie lou

Good point Mini! If there was something wrong with me or baby, then of course I would stay, but if we are both OK, I would rather get back to peace and quiet and familiar surroundings. And the community MW visits you at home the next day so you have that support if you are really struggling. I've just mentioned to DH that I might need him to bring me in a few extra things if we end up staying in hospital longer than planned - he looked very anxious, don't think he likes the idea much either!

Juju - yes I am planning to breastfeed, at my hospital they like to observe you giving the first feed and if that goes OK you can then go home. But they emphasise you are free to stay longer if you want more help.

Thank you Lindz, Juju and Mini for sharing your experiences  I am slowing coming round to the idea of what will be, will be - am a bit of a control freak so I don't like it when things don't go to plan! But as long as I end up with a healthy baby in my arms, I will be pleased with the outcome!


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

you never know, you might have him tonight!    You won;t need half of what you take in so don't worry. 
I was HDU and wasnm/t allowesd any visitors, My mum went MAD!    she said she nearly turned up at the hospital and demanded to see her daughter!


----------



## chrispx

Hello everyone,

Long time no speak! Hope you are all well. Haven't been on here in ages, i just don't seem to have 5 mins these days. When little one naps which is only ever 30mins at a time & seem to run round trying to keep on top of everything.

Mini- How are you? little ones first birthday coming up soon, has it gone fast? Can't believe my little one is 4months.

Carrie- Good luck hun, just read back a couple of pages & see that you are due anytime now. Nothing goes as planned, just go with the flow and you will soon have that bundle of joy in your arms.


----------



## speeder

Hi there - Hazel - don't think I've officially joined this board - can I please do so now?  We have a DD born in September 09 from donor sperm.  Can we just call her Little Speeder?

Carrie - just wanted to say honey - I was induced and honestly it was absolutely fine.  I just needed one lot of the pessaries and about 8 hours later I was in labour.  Hopefully things will progress just fine for you and you won't have to spend too long in hosp but I ended up having 3 nights in (had to have blood transfusions - that's a whole other story - basically there's a weird post partum haemorrage tendency in my family but it's RARE so it won't happen to you!) and actually I was happy to stay in a few nights as I got extra care from the midwives, and a few tips on babycare.  The food was RUBBISH but other than that I felt I had a rest for a few days - which won't happen once you are home.  So don't panic if you are in a few days    As you say, all that matters is getting your little baby safely here.  To be honest, I think it's best to be in a labour ward on the off chance you need any help - it comes sooner that way! I guess that sounds a bit old fashioned, but cos of my haemorrage, I was so thankful the doc was there in approx 20 seconds!  

Thinking of you and GOOD LUCK! xx


----------



## margesimpson

Juju - FAB picture - he's grown up so much since your last pic, but he's still just as gorgeous!


Carrie - best of luck! I think you're right to say what will be, will be - whatever happens it'll all be worth it when they hand you your baby. It's really hard to stay in hospital after the birth as you just want to start being a family ASAP (I stayed 3 days due to blood pressure), but it did help to be in when the milk came in as DS struggled to latch on. 


Do you have midwife led breast feeding support/advice clinics in your area? Make sure you have their number handy. They were brilliant and (I hate to say it), gave more consistent advice than than the well meaning, but not always helpful, advice we got in hospital.


Who was it who said after she gave birth she felt like Sheera! Classic!  Will be watching for your news of a textbook, natural birth       


Mx


----------



## JanaH

Carrie hope you don't have to wait to long.     

Just a quick one, I'm booked in for induction tomorrow morning. Had my second sweep today, so hope this baby makes his own appearance tonight.

Hope everyone else is well.


----------



## teresal

Jana/carrie -- good luck to you both

honestly inductions not that bad, i wanted a water birth and no pain relief apart from gas and air, well got neither, on second induction day meredith decided she didn't like it and we ended up with emergency section and for that i am greatful, if they  hadn't done that i wouldn't have a 9 month monster asleep in her cot now, i think we have all had dreams about how we would like birth to be but in the end as long as you both are ok it really doesn't matter, i still feel cheated in that i never experienced a contraction or had my waters break and that does make me sad sometimes in that i will never know what thats like but at the end of the day i have a beautiful baby girl and thats all that matters. i had meredith on the friday and came on on the sunday with lots of begging to the MW, i was desperate to get home, i felt i had more support there than in hospital

wishing you both the best of luck and can't wait to hear your news but please be quick we are going on holiday on friday for a week and we won't have internet.

hi to everyone else, sorry i don't get on much i am either running round after my monster, working (still hate doing nights) or sleeping (not that i get much of the sleeping)

marge -- whats happening with you, whens tx starting


----------



## teresal

marge -- forgot to say, not long til DS birthday, wow where has the time gone. what do you have planned for him


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## carrie lou

Evening ladies, firstly thank you all so much for your positive stories / reassurance, they really have calmed me down considerably   

Unfortunately my lovely boy shows no sign of wanting to come out of his own accord  - must just be too comfy in there - so on Wednesday morning I shall be going in bright and early to be induced   Wish me luck! Have to say I am a little anxious about this, having never even spent a night in hospital before, but most of all I'm really excited to meet our baby boy now and the most important thing is that he is delivered safe and sound.

I hope to be back really soon with some news.

Jana - good luck for your induction tomorrow   Looks like our little ones might even share a birthday at this rate!


----------



## amandaloo

Jana - very best of luck for tomorrow bet you are very excited. 

Carrie- wanted to wish you luck too it's going to be busy on here in the next two/ three days  

Amanda x


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## Lindz

Good luck Jana. Try your very best to relax and get some sleep tonight. And sleep during the early stages of the induction. I really regret being so tired when my two arrived and not sleeping for 3 days. It didn't make things any easier and still waiting for the chance to catch up


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## juju81

Good luck jana and carrie, just think, by the weekend your'll be cuddlings ur bubbas. I say that because my sister went in to be induced and it didn't work straight away so if go in thinking it's bot goin to work straight away then anything else is a bonus! You might be lucky like speeder!

Hello speeder  

Marge, thanks chick, bless him, he's growing up so quick   he took his first steps yesterday!!!

Oh and it was pippi who said sh felt like she-ra  . Can't say I did    more thank god that's over ha ha ha


----------



## sweetdreams73

Jana / Carrie - good luck with your inductions today hope all goes smoothly for you both   , cant wait to hear all about it, take care lots of


----------



## Fizzypop

Jana - good luck today!

Carrie - good luck tomorrow! 

Bet you are both v excited. All will be just fine and you will have your new bundles shortly...

We need a countdown list - who's next


----------



## carrie lou

Fizzy - I think Amanda and Hazel next?


Juju - bless little Noah starting to walk! I bet that will keep you on your toes!


----------



## nybrlondon

I'm going through with micro TESE soon and have some concerns about post surgery. Can any of the ladies here put me in touch with their partners/husbands who have had this procedure? Thanks in advance.


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

NYBRLONDON - you might be better posting on the mens room boards for help with what it is like post op from other blokes.

My DH had two separate testicular biopsies - first one they took 1 sample from each testicle, second op they took 2 samples from each testicle.
There was a lot of bruising and swelling - you have to wear a scrotal support for a few days.
All was quite a bit better after a few days with mild pain killers and I think totally better after a couple of weeks. 
He went through it twice, so it can't be that bad for the possible end result.
They do put some local anaesthestic into the scrotum so that when you wake up you are pain free for a few hours.

Let me know if you have other concerns and I will ask DH for you. He is pretty unlikely to want to discuss that chapter of his life voluntarily I'm afraid.

Good luck with your procedure and I hope they find some lovely swimmers for you.


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Hi all, I'm still here - yes it is me and Amanda coming next after Carrie.

It was supposed to be my last day at work today   
But now I have to go in tomorrow to finish a few things off. The person I was meant to handover to is now on compassionate leave, so I have had to do more as I have been short staffed, plus I have had to type handover notes. They have promised to give me the hours back to take after mat leave.


----------



## JanaH

Hi Ladies,


Just a quick update to let you all know, baby Joseph arrived yesterday afternoon weighing 8lbs 2oz. We are both doing well, just need to get the feeding sorted.


Carrie hope your induction went well.


----------



## Fizzypop

Oh Jana massive congrats to you and dh! When you are up to it you can tell us all about it!!


----------



## amandaloo

Jana- many congratulations on the safe arrival of you precious baby boy Joseph xx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Jana CONGRATULATIONS


----------



## Lindz

Well done Jana and congratulations. Hope the feeding goes well and you get to go home soon xxx


----------



## teresal

Congratulations Jana (& mr jana) on the birth of baby Joesph, enjoy him honey   

   come on carrie


----------



## sweetdreams73

jana - fab news, congratulations to you and DH on the birth of your son Joesph (lovely name)        ...wishing you all the best and much joy and happiness to you and your family!   x


----------



## juju81

Congratulations jana, bet it doesn't seem real. Best of luck with the feeding, enjoy enjoy enjoy


----------



## margesimpson

Jana - Congratulations to you both!!!    Enjoy these precious days. I can't recommend enough, getting experienced help from a breast feeding clinic/specialist midwife if the feeding is being 'challenging'.


Carrie - thinking of you babe, hope everything is going well and we'll have good news from you soon.


Juju - walking! It's such a major thing! he must've been so chuffed! You must've been so chuffed. Now be honest - did you cry?   


Teresa - lovely to hear from you. What a shame that work is still not....well ideal. Hope it helps when you remind yourself that it's all for darling M, so you can spend as much time with her as possible. Yup it'll be DS's birthday soon!    It's that bitter sweet feeling of course - so happy for this wonderful year, but sad that he's no longer a little baby anymore.   


Hugs to everyone else,


Mx


----------



## spooks

jana 
on the birth of your baby boy


----------



## chrispx

Congratulations jana on the birth of your baby boy. X


----------



## chrispx

Posting off my phone & it's rubbish!!! Arrrgh.

Any news on carrie?


----------



## carrie lou

Quick post ladies - my beautiful boy Zachary Stephen arrived yesterday, 26th May 2011 at 5.54 am weighing 7lb 7oz. Suffice to say nothing went to plan  but I don't care because he is so beautiful and I am so happy - knackered though and have just got home from hospital.

Apologies for no personals, will be back when I feel a bit more human with more details!


----------



## Lindz

Yay Carrie!! Great news. Well done. Look forward to hearing more but for now, enjoy your lovely little man xxx


----------



## margesimpson

Carrie - Wonderful news!    Welcome to the world Zachary! You're a lucky boy as you are so beloved!


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

CONGRATUALTIONS JANA


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

CONGRATULATIONS CARRIE  

Sorry things didn't go to plan, but you are home now, which is fab, not sure how soon you'll feel more human tho


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

when we first decided to use donor sperm i told a friend of mine we would probably have to use it, anyway i thought she knew we'd used one, but i didnt mention it again (shes not a close friend) anyway today she looked at DS and said, oh hes beginning to look more like your DH!    i just said, yeah, and left it at that!!


----------



## spooks

carrie, on the birth of your son


----------



## spooks

hi all, been awol as I've found the last few weeks soooooo difficult  like being back at the start. 
I thought all the stresses of it were down to our new donor issue but after reading some posts I think my feelings are pretty standard even for people thinking about another baby without using a donor . We have an appointment next week and if we can get a new donor that meets most of my criteria then we'll go for it (I think 







) I now realise I'm more scared of a BFN or m/c like before







but I'm sure we'll regret it later if we don't at least try. and I know I'm not really ready to stop tx just yet. I wish I was ready to stop and get on with life, I'm not sure how people know when the time is right. I do feel fortunate that we still have the choice (even though it's not 1st choice (DH's sperm) or even 2nd choice (baby spook's donor) 
baby spooks has started asking lots of questions about who made/ bought her so there's been lots of talking about her origins - didn't expect it to come so soon and I find it heart wrenching but have to keep it positive and happy. She's only 2 but I think she's understanding it a bit and she's been to the clinic with our last 2 attempts and knows that's where she was made. Need to prepare Dh for her telling anyone/everyone she meets (quite likely as she loves a good natter  ) I've also been checking the windows are closed and no neighbours are around when I'm talking to her about it  and yet I obviously don't want it to be like a hidden away secret. It's so hard though. It'll take time and get easier I know. I just feel so deeply for dh and worry about how this will affect him. Me and baby spooks have only had the conversations when he's not around so far.

hope everyone is well and sorry to interrupt the new baby celebrations   which are very exciting indeed! 
take care all, love spooks


----------



## northernmonkey

Grrr just lost a post I was half way through typing.    

Jana - CONGRATULATIONS!!    Fab news, enjoy these early days - it's so true what people say about how fast they go.  

Carrie - CONGRATULATIONS to you too!    You too cherish the early days, it's an amazing time and one I wish I could relive over and over again. 

Hazel - hope you've finally made it onto your maternity leave and are managing to put your feet up.  How is your DH - is he getting more excited?

sorry will have to come back tomorrow, dd is teething and I'm needed....


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Hi NM - yes on Mat leave now. So exciting - been waiting years and years for this moment!!!

DH still says he feels detached. Maybe all men feel a bit of this as they don't have the physical symptoms or kicks?

I have to see how he is with the baby once he is here. Not long now!

Hope DD's teething is not too painful - poor little mite.


----------



## juju81

Spooks   good luck with ur appointment. I think everyone feels anxious when they have suffered a bfn or mc before and even more so when ur forking out all that money. It will all be worth it tho   . I'm ready to not have anymore. It was a combination if things, being a nervous wreck throughout my preg because of my mc, labour, money and now our sperm issue. A few people know about our donor situation, nicks more than happy with people knowing and tells people quite openly about our problems, I suppose everyone is different in how they want to deal with the situation. It's hard tho and wish we didn't have to tell him   How have you been talking to baby spooks? Just need some pointers for when our time comes. We can't give Noah any information from the hfea because of our situation but I have printed the donors info from xytex so will keep that for him when he's old enough and should he ask.

Come on hun let's get ur     back  ^

Hazel, not long for you sorry ur hubby is still feeling detached, I don't know how you feel because from the word go nick was so excited etc but I bet as soon as he claps eyes on ur beauty he'll be in love  

Carrie, congratulations on te birth of Zachary   can't wait to hear the birth story, I love a birth story


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Spooks - its so hard isn't it trying to not to be a secret but now having the milkman and his wife knowing.    good luck with the new donor   

Hazel - Dh was 'detached' at the end of my pg, in fact he drove me so mad i thought we were going to split up with my hormones and his detachment issue       we didn't thankfully


----------



## amandaloo

Carrie- many congratulations on the birth of your baby son how wonderful   

Will try & do personals tommoz off out for tea with dh yummmmm


----------



## margesimpson

Spooks - been thinking about you. It must've been really hard to feel like you've already had to climb this emotional mountain. From what you've said already, I really hope you decide to go for it. If you do, and it works, you'll never regret it once baby arrives. 


I can't believe baby Spooks is asking about stuff already. Isn't there a book on telling donor-conceived children? I think I'd like to get it quite soon then.


Juju - I'm so glad you're feeling a bit better about staying a lovely family of three. It sounds like you've given it a lot of thought and are making the decision for all the right reasons. I'm in total awe of your DH being so open about using donor. DH knows it's the best decision we could've ever made, but is not comfortable with it being general knowledge. I think he still thinks it reflects somehow on his manly-ness, if that's the word?! I, like Spooks, worry about DS announcing it at some party sometime and DH and I wanting the ground to swallow us up!


Mini - OMG - don't mention the milkman - we've had a few (male) friends make jokes about the milkman/postman etc when we announced the pregnancy!    Nice   


Hazel - congrats on being on mat leave - enjoy it as much as you can.  


Amanda - not long for you now.....how you feeling?


Anyone else miss being the babies and bumps thread?


Mx


----------



## chrispx

Carrie- congratulations on the birth of your baby boy, hope you are both well. You will be in a whirlwind the first few days... Well weeks!

Mini- I think it's funny how different people see different things, I think they see what they want too. Loads of people have said to us about dd looking like dh, I'm like you & go along with it.

Spooks- sending you some    vibes. Im quite nervous about telling dd & part of me doesn't want too but then got to think when she's older don't want secrets. My dh said he is not bothered who knows he doesn't care, but I'm the opposite I don't want people knowing & wish it was just our secret. It's so hard so I'm hoping for a few pointers too on where to start etc.

Marge- omg I agree I would want ground to swallow me up if dd said at a party! But
Kids say things so innocently I guess.

I'm all confused on the ds issue, we have only told immediate family & that's it didn't want anyone else knowing before dd. But then am I going to look silly in years to come if/when people find out? As
My close friends talk about dh & dd similarites & who she looks like & we just
Play along. Think I'm going to need some help when the time comes.

Hope everyone else ok.


----------



## sweetdreams73

Carrie - huge congratulations      hun on the birth of your son, hope you recover quick, glad to hear you are home now and wishing you lots of joy and fun as a family     x


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

It just goes to prove that people see what they want to see and a baby exposed to parents all the time will take on characteristics, mannerisms, speech and expressions in a similar way.


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Ju get that book from dcn and start reading it to Noah then eventually it will just be normal to him and not a shock if u just sit him down one day and tell him


----------



## carrie lou

Hi ladies, my birth story if you're interested ... sorry it's a really long "me" post!

As you know I went 2 weeks overdue and had to be induced which was a disappointment as I was hoping for birthing centre, pool, gas & air, minimal intervention etc. So Wednesday morning all packed and ready, DH made a little video clip for our boy saying we were leaving the house as a couple for the last time and coming home as a family of 3! I suddenly got really emotional and couldn't even speak! Got to antenatal ward 8.45 and had all the usual checks etc. MW examined me and said I was only just 1cm dilated, cervix still long - basically no change since sweep a week ago. Gave me the 1st pessary but seemed rather pessimistic about it working. I felt so disappointed







and convinced myself it was all going to go badly. Once released from the monitor DH and I had a walk around the hospital grounds and a picnic lunch. I soon started having irregular niggly pains every 10 mins or so. MW said they weren't strong enough to be meaningful though. At 4pm I was re-examined and cervix had definitely softened so decided not to give me 2nd pessary but rather wait and see. Meanwhile pains were getting stronger and closer together but still a little irregular and I could breathe through them easily.

Eventually at 10pm (!) they still didn't believe I was in "proper" labour but transferred me to labour ward to see if they could break my waters. To everyone's surprise I was 4cm dilated! Waters broken easily but they were lightly stained with meconium so had to be on continuous monitor and no birth pool







but I could still bounce on ball with care (with more waters leaking out with each contraction - nice). Started feeling sick and threw up, so lay down on bed on my side. Pain soon intensified and I requested gas and air - little effect on the pain if I'm honest, just made me feel dizzy and spaced out! DH and MW kept telling me how well I was doing but pain was so bad I was starting to feel panicky and scared. Asked for epidural and got it pretty quickly - I remember telling anaesthetist she was a genius! Went from worst pain of my life and feeling totally out of control, to pain free, calm and chilled out in the space of a few minutes. Wonderful and highly recommended.

Was re-examined and had gone from 4 to 8cm in under 2 hours!







No wonder pain was so bad. Soon after having epidural was fully dilated but could hardly feel contractions by then so they told me not to push for an hour but let baby come down by himself. Meanwhile baby's heart rate was dropping after each contraction and lots more meconium coming out so they put an electrode on his head and took a blood sample - all OK but doctor said I had to push him out in 30 mins or else intervention needed. Started pushing with excellent guidance from MW but despite best efforts didn't get him out in 30 mins - so doc gave him a helping hand with ventouse and he was born in a few contractions just before 6am. Had cord round his neck twice which was why his heart rate was dropping and lots of meconium! They put him straight on my tummy, he cried immediately and lovely DH overcame his squeamishness enough to cut the cord - I was very proud of him. We both had a few tears then Zac was whisked away and checked by a paediatrician but all fine so he came back to me for skin to skin.

DH left the room to phone the grandparents and soon after this I started to feel awful, sick and dizzy and threw up. They immediately laid me flat still with Zac on my tummy, next thing there was a crowd of people round me putting in another drip, bags of fluid, not 1 but 2 syntometrine injections in my legs and a hormone drip. Someone brought in a box marked "emergency". Everyone very calm though, I wanted to ask what was happening but felt too awful to speak. Vomited about 3 more times from the hormone drip. DH came back in and looked panic stricken. Turned out I had a bleed of estimated 800mls. They got it under control quickly, told me it was not considered "excessive" but felt pretty darn excessive to me!

Once all calm DH went home for some sleep. I stayed on labour ward for about next 6 hours, someone gave me a bed bath and tea and toast. Felt so spaced out and woozy, couldn't sit up without head swimming and pulse racing. Felt like I was fighting to stay conscious! Zac in the cot next to me, fortunately calm and settled as I was not even strong enough to lift him out for a cuddle. MW tried to help me latch him on but I was too woozy to follow instructions.

Finally about lunchtime we were transferred to ward still feeling pretty rubbish and a bit weepy. Desperately wanted to see a friendly face so called DH to come sit with me. My parents visited that evening, delighted to meet Zac but obviously shocked by the state of me, pale as a sheet and puffy from all the fluid. MWs were all wonderful, helping me have a shower and comforting me when I was weepy. Don't know why I was crying, I think from relief and exhaustion!

Anyway we came home Friday afternoon and apart from being anaemic, am recovering pretty well and Zac is just wonderful. Can't believe he is ours and finally here! Am so proud of myself for having brought him into this world. DH is smitten too. Moral of the story ladies: even when nothing goes to plan, it does not matter. I just agreed to every intervention suggested because it was in Zac's best interests and at the end of the day all I wanted was to hold him safe and sound in my arms, which is exactly what I have right now.


----------



## chrispx

Well done carrie! Enjoyed that, love a birth story. Parts of it were similar to mine, it brings it all back & epidurals are just the best, the relief they give is amazing.


----------



## chrispx

Hazel- I agree.

Mini- what book is that? I haven't joined that DCN wonder if I should.


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

carrie - sounds like my birth story!    You will feel so tired in next few weeks, most of it is the blood loss, i didn't realise, i just thouight it was looking after baby but it was the anaemia.    Epidurals rock!   

Chrispx - its the talking and telling book for sperm donation.


----------



## Fizzypop

Ah carrie, nice to hear from you. Sorry all did not go to plan but glad you are home now and hope that dh is looking after you x


----------



## amandaloo

Carrie- sorry things didnt go to plan  must have been worrying at times, hope you are recovering well. Cant wait to be on cloud 9 holding my LO in my arms too    . Many congratulations         

Hazel- Think the planned c section is what id do in your position sounds like its what the professionals think too eh, im sure it will all go well. wont be long now for both of us  

Sweetdreams- how are you doing update please  

Margiesimpson- hello  , im feeling very well thankyou, well apart from a few pg niggles, cant wait to meet our LO now on countdown. Started mat leave which has really helped too just feels like years since ive waited to say im on mat leave its madness  

spooks-     hope the appointment goes well for you and they can find a match. It must be difficult for you at the moment especially with baby spooks asking more questions at the same time as coping with needing a new donor. If it helps my DH says hes dealt with the donor issue he says hes put it in a box somewhere, maybe you need to talk to your DH and tell him your worries he may suprise you    . Best of luck     

Juju- theres a book that helps you explain to them in an easy to understand way. Was shown it when we had councelling, not sure on the name of it though duhhhh   im sure it will be quite easy to find on a search of net??

Hi to everyone else who i havent mentioned   

AFM- well the cot is up   my DH did it yesterday and is super chuffed with himself as he never does DIY so was quite an achievement really. Ive only got a small nursery so things are slightly cramped in there but going to make the most of the room we have. Exciting times


----------



## juju81

Lovely birth story carrie, as I was reading it I was thinking of mini! Again, like the others there are similarities to my birth aswell! Take it easy tho, your'll be running on adrenaline at the mo but that soon wears off and then bam! Does make u proud of yourself tho doesn't it!

Can we see a pic!?

Amanda, maternity leave is he best. Enjoy. Not long now x


----------



## carrie lou

Thanks everyone   

Juju - yes I will put a pic up, just have to work out how and find the time to do it!   

Pinkcat - yes I am on iron tablets, only gave me 2 weeks worth though so will see how I am and maybe get some more from GP after that?

Feeding is going pretty well, he latches on beautifully so no problems there fortunately. Sometimes it feels like he just wants to feed all the time!  Although he usually goes for 4-5 hours without a feed at night so that's pretty good I think. I'm getting a little sore though  but hoping this will improve.

Amanda - enjoy maternity leave, it's lovely  

Lots of     to everyone


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Pinkcat I was thinking of that fluid stuff u get rid of today   lochia. It's disgusting and something they do not tell u about before !! 

Carrie keep taking the iron tabs. I didn't and had to take them again


----------



## speeder

Hi Carrie - that's great he's such a good latcher.  Have you tried Lansinoh cream - it's lanolin and really helps with the soreness.  You do get used to it though.  Breast milk is really good as well for moisturising the area.  Slightly traumatic birth story but with such a happy ending    How weird you had a bit of a bleed (but thank goodness not a bad one).  That was just like me - reacted really quickly to the pessaries, everything happened really fast but it sounds like your midwives were fab. Mine refused to believe I was in labour as they said it wouldn't be so quick and I would be in real pain (even though I said I was) (said the water on the floor was urine - eh clearly not) and so basically ran out of time to get me pain relief of any kind and I was v annoyed about that as a quick labour is so sore. ~Anyway, I digress - I wonder if the reason you (and I) reacted so quickly to the pessaries was because we were about to "go" anyway - and so it made everything a bit quick and consequently the uterus gets more tired and more likely to bleed.  I had a huge bleed - thank goodness you avoided that as the transfusions were not pleasant. I took iron for only a few days as they made me v constipated - if that happens to you you can request a different (more expensive!) type.  ps 4 - 5 hours at night is FAB!! Make the most of it as it might change!!! 

Spooks - spooklet must be such clever girl to ask all these questions . I think the other girls have expressd my concerns too - that DD will talk about it  at the "wrong" time leaving DH mortified.  It's something that DH and I haven't sorted out and I guess I thought we'd have a while before we needed to worry about it but maybe that's not the case!


----------



## carrie lou

Hi Speeder, yes MWs suggested lansinoh and DH went straight out and got me some - it's helping already, so glad I persevered through the pain. I've had iron before in pregnancy and tolerated it ok so hopefully should be all right. Yes very glad I didn't need a transfusion like poor you!  

MW is coming tomorrow to do his heel prick test


----------



## olivia m

Just like to add my huge congratulations to Carrie.

To those of you who have been talking about books to help with 'telling' young children, DCN publishes Telling and Talking booklets for parents to give you some ideas about language, timing, responses etc. and we also have story books for young children (from around 2years). For heterosexual couples the one for children conceived by sperm donation is called My Story and for egg donation Our Story. There is also an Our Story specially for those who have a child by double or embryo donation. For single women and lesbian couples we have other versions of Our Story. The children's books and the T & T booklets all cost £8.50 each and can be bough via our website www.dcnetwork.org The T & T booklets can also be downloaded for a small fee.
You do not have to be a member of DCN to buy the books, but you are very welcome to do so in order to be in touch with others and come to our meetings. Have a look at the website for full benefits of membership.
Olivia

/links


----------



## pippilongstockings

Carrie - just seen your news CONGRATULATIONS!!  Lovely name too, you have great taste


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## carrie lou

Thanks Pippi   We both love the name and have always known if we had a little boy, he would be Zachary

Zac had his heel prick yesterday - didn't even wake up! Also he was weighed and has lost only about 7% of his birth weight so I guess my feeding must be up to the job


----------



## speeder

Hi all 

Just wanted to update to say we had our 12 week scan today and all is well.  Lovely little baby wriggling around.  Still feels amazing.  Just waiting to hear on the screening blood test in a few weeks, fingers crossed.

Carrie - great news about Zac's weight! 

speeder x


----------



## amandaloo

Speeder- fantastic news ))))


----------



## Lindz

Yay Speeder. So pleased for you x


----------



## carrie lou

Yay Speeder! Thrilled for you honey


----------



## Fizzypop

Speeder - huge congrats. Hope it is starting to feel more real now x


----------



## margesimpson

Speeder - that's wonderful news! Did you get any pictures or is that from a later scan? I remember just staring and staring at the grainy wee thing. It's a terrible cliche I know, but it really seems miraculous! 


Carrie - well done you! And well done Zach - you must be the breast-feeding dream team! Is he sleeping with you? Are you getting much sleep?


AFM - with all these bumps and babies, I'm getting impatient for the witch to arrive so we can start again!


Mx


----------



## carrie lou

Marge - he seems to snack feed a lot of the time so very little rest for me between feeds! But usually goes 4 hours overnight thank goodness. He should be sleeping in his crib in our room but doesn't settle at all well in it, prefers to be cuddled and rocked to sleep and I sometimes resort to co-sleeping for some of the night just so we can get some rest!   Please tell me all this will get better, don't know how I will manage when DH goes back to work!
Here's an AF dance for you:


----------



## margesimpson

Carrie - It will definitely get better! 4 hrs is probably pretty good at this age. Hope you're getting an extra nap during the day. Have you anyone who can come round during the day and let you have an hour or so's nap? And breast feeding will be SOOO much easier because you don't need to sterilise bottles etc.
You're doing great babe   
Mx


P.S. Thanks for the AF dance - oh how I long for those sleepless nights, sore nipples and gorgeous tiny baby-ness again!


----------



## carrie lou

Thank you Marge!    As hard as it is,  I am really enjoying these special early days, I even enjoy breastfeeding but sometimes have to remind myself why I'm doing it!  I try to get an hour's nap in the afternoons, DH takes the baby for a while.

My mum has offered to help but she works so can't come over all that often. I'm sure I will manage somehow! 
P.S. Lots of luck for your cycle


----------



## juju81

Carrie it really does get easier. I could never get Noah back to sleep after his 2am bottle so ended up on the sofa with him until I read that if you do it for more than 3 wks it's hard to get away from it so stopped and haven't ever look back! 

I know some people rave about co-sleeping and at the time u do just want sleep so completely understand why ur doing it  

Marge, are u mad


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

carrie - you will be fine when DH goes back to work. It was better when DH went back cos i got into a good routine.    try and rest when he sleeps/ I found that hard but even a sit down watcvhing the telly is good. try to keep putting him in his crib and he'll get used to it. I tried putting DS in our bed but he hates it and won't sleep


----------



## sweetdreams73

Hello lovely ladies

Carrie - wow so sorry about the bleed hun   , but amazing if not difficult birth story and so glad you and Zac are doing great and both are recovering well  , great he is latching on like a pro for breastfeeding, fab news, wishing you, DH and Zac much happiness and fun as a family... hope you get some sleep too    

Amanda - I am still here!!!    wow not long for you now, how exciting!! hope you are not getting too uncomfortable    x

Spooks - good luck with finding a donor match    . So really hope the book helps explain things to junior spooks..  I am dreading our two boys when they get to that stage and start asking questions and some people not responding well to the donor thing!!  my FIL for one has no tact and I am so worried he is going to upset DH or the boys and make very unappropriate remarks  , he has already made it very clear how he things we are so wrong that we are going to tell our boys the truth about how they were conceived!! not easy!! but telling them when they are young has got to be better for them me thinks... take care hun xx  

Marge - doing you an AF dance     hope you can get to start TX very soon for number 2..x  

Speeder - fab news all great at your 12wk scan  , hope you can relax a bit now and start enjoying your pregnancy, take care of you and precious bump xx   

lots of love and     to everyone else

AFM - We are doing good, just started feeling proper movements in the last week from our two boys, such an amazing and lovely experience...   also very reassuring they are ok too and wow do they move around a lot!!. We had our 22wk scan yesterday and thank god our two little miracles are doing really great, growing and developing just as they should be and no signs of that horrible condition TTTS (twin to twin transfusion syndrome) that they are at high risk of getting...  we have our next scan in 2 weeks time and been told that the chances of them getting TTTS go down at 24 weeks which is great news also obviously if any complications with their shared placenta and it fails or the little monkeys decide to come really early, at least at 24 weeks they have some chance of survival...but obviously hoping they stay put for a lot longer yet...   I am so hoping I will actually start to relax a bit at the next scan and start to believe that we are going to have two healthy twin boys at the end of all this...    . I have finally got my head around and accepted the fact that I have to have a c-section at 36 weeks if they dont come before... (been told there is a risk of one twin not getting enough blood supply from shared placenta if have natural birth with this type of twin pregnancy... not willing to take any risks so got to do whats best for the twins their health comes first).... I have now been put on iron tablets as 1) I am vegetarian, 2) carrying twins so iron levels drop more, so my chances of becoming enemic and needing a blood transfusion are higher    ... but they are doing regular blood tests to monitor my iron levels throughout rest of pregnancy and will increase iron tablets if need be... The good news is my blood pressure has not risen anymore and under control now so that great!.. 

lots of love 
sweetdreamsxxxxx


----------



## margesimpson

SD - that's awesome. So pleased for you. How amazing it must be to feel two little bambinos in there moving about. I know I was massive by 22wks, so I hope you're not feeling too big and uncomfortable yet    Hopefully you'll suddenly go into labour a couple of days before your scheduled C-section - then you'll get the longest time possible for their wee bodies to develop, but skip the recovering from the abdominal surgery while taking care of two babies rubbish!     


Out of curiosity, will you bring the twins up as veggies from the start? I often wondered how I'd have weaned DS without spaghetti bolognese!   


By the way Carrie - any tips for the feeding, how did you get it sussed so quickly?


Hi and hugs to everyone else - what FAB weather we had today, so enjoyed a lovely drinky in the garden when DH got back from work (non-alcoholic for me - body is a temple and all that!).


Mx


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## carrie lou

SD - great that everything is going so well for you. It must be quite something feeling 2 babies wriggling inside you! I think you are right about the c-section, you have to do the safest thing for your precious babies.   

Marge - not sure if I have any tips, I think a lot of it is down to luck and Zac being such a good latcher! If I'm honest I struggled for the first few days as it was so painful, but I persevered and now it is much better. Also when I got home from hospital I felt so rubbish I just stayed in bed for most of the first 2-3 days and did nothing but breastfeed! I think this really helped me get started.  

Yesterday we went for a walk to the park, it was the first time we'd taken the pram out and it felt so good!  Last night it was 25 degrees in our bedroom despite having the windows open  - I let him sleep in just his vest and nappy and a blanket as I was so worried about him over heating - do you ladies think this is OK?


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## JanaH

Carrie congrats on the birth of Zachary.

Thanks for all the kind message on the birth of our son.

My birth story: On Tuesday morning we went in for induction. Around 10:00 they inserted the first tablet and gave me a good sweep. I had to be monitored for an hour before we where allowed to go for a walk around the hospital. We met up with some of my work friends as I work at the hospital. We had to be back on the ward an hour later just to listen to babies heartbeat. Everything was going well and we went out for another long walk. We had lunch and decided to go for a nap around 2:30 and another walk at 3:30, we had to be back at 4:00 for an internal examination.

I started getting some back pain and funny tummy aches around 3:00. I started using my Tens machine on our 3:30 walk. Back on the ward the midwife asked my why am I huffing and puffing. I told her well I have some pain but don't now if it's contractions, we had to start timing them. They came every 3 mins, they put the fetal monitor on and yes I was having contraction coming every 3 minutes. They did another internal examination and was only 2 cm dilated. Because of the contractions they could not insert the second tablet. I started bouncing on the ball and went for some more walks. My contraction started to get really painful but was still able to breathe through them. I got really tired and thought we would sleep as I was going to send me to the labour ward to get my waters break, but they were full. Around 1am my waters broke by it self. The labour ward could only take me in at around 3pm. I was in such agony and tired I decided to take them up on their offer for pethidine. The pethidine helped me to sleep and relax through my contraction, by know I was glad I took it as labour ward could only take me in at 5pm. I started my antibiotics for GBS as soon as my waters broke.

I was transferred to labour ward where I had an epidural and given oxytocin. They did an internal examination and I was 6cm dilated. The midwife called in another midwife to double check and it turned out I was actually 9cm. (The balloon in the catheter blocked my cervix) They asked me to wait another hour before start pushing so they give me another course of antibiotics. I was totally spaced out from the pethidine. I had my last epidural top up around an hour and half before I started to push, so that I can feel the contractions and him being born.

At around 2:20 I started pushing and our beautiful baby boy was born at 2:52. I felt the contractions and knew when to push, the midwife was absolutely amazing. She guided me through the whole process. I was so happy to finally have our baby on my chest, hubby cut the cord and had a cuddle. I was so impressed with DH he helped me so much through labour, he took loads of photo's and I wanted a video taken of the whole process which he did for me.

I was transferred to the post natal ward later on. We had a good first night we decided to stay another night so that I could get the feeding under control. Unfortunately he developed jaundice the next day and we where kept in hospital until the Saturday evening. Joseph had to spend nearly 24 hours under the lights. 


We feeding is a bit of an issue he latches on with the nipple shield but not the breast. I don't think he gets enough milk through the shields, so I've expressed last night and he slept really well, as the previous two nights he did not sleep. 

We are both so in love with our baby boy. Mummy doing well, just concerned about his feeding.

Hope everyone else is doing well.


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## carrie lou

Congratulations Jana! Lovely birth story  Your induction sounds very similar to mine, only one pessary needed to get things going  Hope the feeding gets easier for you


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## spooks

hi just a quickie jana  
baby spooks was jaundiced, no one told me til after the event that they typically like to sleep all day and are awake and need to be breast feed for most of the night. but they're all different and I'm sure you'll find the rhythym that suits you both best. I used nipple shields for weeks, they got me through some very painful times. 
 some good advice about Bfeeding is on this thread
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=88.0


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## margesimpson

Hi Jana,

Congratulations to you both! What a wonderful birth story. You're made of tough stuff babe! Jana - feeding DS was so hard, but I'm so glad that I persevered. I used nipple shields for weeks and finally got rid of them, but I often wished that I'd never started using them. I think you do what you have to do though. The best advice I could give is the value of expert advice - is there a breast feeding clinic/support group around you? We have clinics run by midwifes and they totally transformed my feeding. I know how hard it can be and ultimately, breast feeding doesn't work for everybody, despite doing everything you possibly can. I don't want to give you conflicting information, but this is what they told me at the clinic, in case you'd like to know (sorry if you've heard all this before:

Lie back on a comfortable sofa/chair, so that baby can control his own feeding more (this really helped me because it turned out I had fast flow and hunching over him trying so hard to latch him on, just meant he was choking and trying to pull off)
Hold him on you symmetrically, ie, with one arm underneath your arm
When he opens his mouth to go for it, support him to take the nipple when it's pointing to his nose. This helps him to take more of the breast in, which he'll need to do to really get the milk going. If he latches onto just the nipple, it gets pretty sore, pretty quickly.
IF it doesn't feel right or is getting sore, slip your finger in to break the suction and then try the latch again.
Take care of yourself. Stay calm, he will pick up on your stress. Make sure you eat and drink well and rest whenever possible.
I found this website useful too: http://www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=5&Itemid=17

Good luck and it honestly will get better!  
Mx

/links


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## JanaH

Thanks Marge, hope AF arrives soon so that you can start tx.

We had 2 good feeds yesterday. The midwife helped me yesterday morning and he fed for a good 45 minutes and then again for about 30 minutes at his next feed. I tried putting him to the breast for the next feed, but he did not take, so decided to express to my suprise I could not even get 30ml out. When I expressed earlier in the week I managed 120 ml each time, so I'm in total shock that I don't even manage to feed him properly. We started giving him formula and then I express what ever I can and feed him that as well.

I don't understand how this happened and what I could do. One thing I looked forward too was breast feeding my baby.

Carrie how are you and Zac doing?

SD - glad you and the twinnies are doing well.

Amanda not long to go until you meet your LO. How are you feeling?

Hope everyone is having a lovely weekend and doing well.


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## juju81

Jana   it's easy for me to say don't stress yourself out about breast feeding because I bottle fed but it's honestly not the be all and end all. Joseph will be so much happier with a destressed mummy. 

Unfortunately bf just doesn't work out fo sone mummies.

Why don't u see I there is a breast feeding coordinator in the area who could help you?  

p.s, lovely story hun


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

I've just been to a breast feeding workshop. These were some of the things we were told in addition to what Marge has said.

You need to feed/express regularly to establish milk supply and demand. Make sure you are drinking and eating enough and not anxious and stressed as the oxytocin/prolactin need to work.

There are drugs that can encourage milk production. One is domperidone which can be prescribed.

We were told not to hold the baby's head, but support behind the shoulders to line up for latch on as the baby has to be able to put the head back and get the nipple fully in the mouth. And also use the opposite arm to the breast you are using to support the baby as the same arm will constrict the head and neck.

Try different positions to see if the baby will prefer a different position.

98% of women can breast feed if they persevere. It is not the end of feeding yet Jana. You can re-establish supply with any luck. Try contacting a specialist midwife or breast feeding counsellor for more advice. If people who are adopting can induce lactation by regular expressing then I am sure something can be done to push up your supplies.


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## Fizzypop

Hi Jana, clearly I can provide no practical experience at the moment but I have been reading the gina ford book and also went to a breastfeeding session by Clare byan cook at the baby show.

Gina says something about feeding every three hours during the day to establish milk supply - so maybe express every three hours?

Also, at the baby show, Clare was saying that if it's a latching problem to squish the boob sideways horizontal with the body rather than vertical to the body. Also, try not to stress as this affects milk supply. Easier said than done at the moment I would imagine!!

Have you got a bf pillow? Don't know if that would make a difference.

Otherwise, the only othe thing I can think of is to keep ringing the midwife, if they can help once then must be able to give you a few pointers!


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## carrie lou

Jana I'm so sorry to hear you are struggling with feeding. Others have already given you excellent advice but I just wanted to add mine, I hope you don't mind: definitely get all the help / advice you can as soon as possible. Ask a midwife or other expert to watch you latch him on and feed him. Try to feed him or express as often as possible even if it means you are doing very little else for a few days, the chores can wait! I'm sure there is still a good chance you can establish a good supply but even if you can't, don't beat yourself up. Breastfeeding is hard work and doesn't work out for everyone. If your baby is ultimately fed on formula, it's not the end of the world - more important that he gets the nutrition he needs to grow, and a calm happy mummy.


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## Lindz

Jana-  . Totally agree with everything the other girls have said. Also your supply varies loads depending on the time of day. 120ml is great so your body does know what to do! I expressed like mad (10mins every hour for the first few days though don't do this as it was  ) to get my supply up for the twins but even now there are some evenings when I haven't eaten much when I hardly have any milk and other times when I can get 300 ml + per boob! I used formula to top up at first (actually it was more like breast milk topping up formula). Biggest thing is to try not to worry or feel guilty. Whatever happens it has to be the best thing for you and bubs xxx


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## amandaloo

hi ladies

Jana- lovely birth story thanks for sharing     and many congratulations again     As for the breastfeeding when I went to antenatal classes they said it can take up to two weeks to get hang of it and for some longer as its both baby and you thats trying to get used to it. The ladies have given you some good advice. Im hoping to breastfeed but not going to beat myself up if I cant or struggle to do it...Hope your ok   . Ps Im feeling ok thankyou just a waiting game now   cant wait

Linz-you know when you used formula to top up did you use a bottle to give it? I know its a funnny question but they mentioned at antenatal class about using a cup obviously a very samll one to feed baby with? Well ive bought in some bottles with teets that say are suitable for breastfeeding babies too. As Id like to express and give my hubby a chance to feed him too when hes finally here of course lol...

Sweetdreams - lovely to hear from you and so glad everything is going well with your growing bump and twinnies   

Juju- Hope your well  

Margiesimpson- yayyy to starting again     hope af comes soon   and best of luck

Carrielou- Hope all is well with you too  

Hazel- When will you be given a date for C Section or have you still not fully decided?

Hello and hugs to ppl ive missed mentioning  

AFM-well getting excited, been doing the nursery and getting it how I want it, was a bit cramped in there so changed it round a bit which has made a big difference. Ive put a chair in there so can nurse him at night when he dioes finally sleep in there!! Should be picking pram up soon too. DONT WORRY im taking it to my mums been given strict instructions not to bring it home superstitions eh!!!


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Hi Amanda - I am seeing the consultant tomorrow to discuss delivery. It is going to be interesting whether he has changed his mind and what he says. Quite exciting to get a date. It will take a lot of the worry out it all. I think I have pretty much decided having spoken to so many people about it that it is the best option in my case. I think I would be totally beside myself with worry if I had to wait to go into labour naturally with all the uncertainties and the possibility of an emergency section very real. I would be totally in a state of regret forever if I went against the consultant's advice and it all went wrong.


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## margesimpson

Jana -  Sounds like you are going through very similar issues to me, but if you're keen to continue feeding (and formula is a very good alternative, it just felt like something I wanted to persevere with) keep at it a little longer. You are still recovering from the birth. It'll get so much easier, it really will    It probably seems like you are spending all your time trying to feed/express/give bottle/sterilise bottle and that this is just not sustainable, but this will soon pass. The good news is that DH can be feeding little one while you are expressing/resting. I've more advice below, but please don't be offended if you've heard it all before. I just remember how lost and frustrated I felt.

The formula bit:
Breast feeding advocates seem to be rather against the bottle as baby learns that this is a much faster was to get milk and may start to try to latch on differently to you, BUT you do what you have to do. The midwife also suggested a syringe first of all (holding it along side your index finger and squeezing some out each time he sucks), but DS wasn't getting enough and had gotten dehydrated so that was abandoned. A cup was also suggested by the midwifes (the top of a baby's bottle would be about right), but how are you supposed to get 70ml into baby that way? (By the way, a useful rule of thumb, is that your baby will want between 150ml and 200ml of formula per kilogram of his body weight per day. So 70ml x 8 feeds (560ml) for our 3.8kg baby (8lb 4oz)). Surely baby getting the nutrition he needs is more important than possible 'nipple confusion'. I wish we'd given DS a bottle sooner, before he needed re-admitted for dehydration!

Keep trying to latch him on as well:
After we were re-admitted, we were told to feed every 3hrs. I was told to start off with him on the breast for max 30mins (realistically it was sometimes only 5mins) or until he's pulling off/unhappy. Don't keep trying to feed him for any longer as he'll get too tired to take the bottle. Then top up with formula from dad, while you try to express whatever you can. Don't worry if its only 10ml at first. Its supply and demand of course, so it'll get better if you keep doing it. Do make sure he's having wet nappies (remember modern nappies are super absorbant) and is happy and satisfied after a feed. Ask the midwife/health visiter to weigh him if you're worried he's not taking enough. We were also told (as Hazel said) to support behind the shoulders, not to shove from behind the head.

Ironically stress is the worst thing for breast feeding. The milk won't let down if you're stressed, even if there's milk in there. One way round this was to express and little first, to get the milk flowing. Learning to manually express really helped too. I started in a warm bath, which helps with the flow and you can see the milk coming out when you get the knack. Then when DS was about to feed, I just started the flow before having to juggle a wobbly baby who was going mad with frustration. Bear in mind, some people have a good milk supply, but get very little with the pump.

Sorry if I'm rambling and sorry if all this advice just makes you feel worse. Just trying to help.
Huge hugs  
Mx


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## margesimpson

Hazel - good luck tomorrow 

Amanda - thanks, these dances are sure to work soon!    It's so exciting getting everything ready. Just try to resist pushing the pram around the park with a stuffed toy - Juju wasn't that your favourite past-time with the Oyster?

Spooks - lovely to hear from you. How are you doing?

Lindz - have you seen the video of the twins having a massive conversation? Just think, your wee ones will be doing that one day! http://www.tvguide.com/News/Twins-Conversation-Viral-Video-1031243.aspx

Hope all the bumps are doing well,
Hi and hugs to everyone else  
Mx 
/links


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## Lindz

Hi Amanda, Marge has said everything much better than I could. Yep, we used bottles to top up as cup just didn't work when trying to get them to take a full and proper feed. If you possibly can I'd stick to just breast for the first few weeks. Once feeding is properly established I'm sure it wouldn't cause too many problems for you to express and DH give a bottle feed, (maybe a night one to give you some sleep!). Just be careful though as expressing and bottle feeding if you don't need to can cause problems with your supply etc. A big regret of mine is that I still can't get DS to latch on properly and so both babies usually have EBM now which I do think has made a difficult job even harder over the last 5 months. I'm going to stop expressing soon (though I have been saying that for months) but would have carried on for longer i think if I could have sorted straight breast feeding out. Good luck and just see how it goes xxx


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## Lindz

He he he Marge that's so cute and clever. DS has just started to notice DD and by notice I mean pull her hair, take her toys and try and suck her nose


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## margesimpson

It really made me laugh out loud!    That's so adorable - hope she stands up for herself and steals the toy back! Mx


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## juju81

Ha, I'd push it round my MIL, she wouldn't let me have it at home even tho I'm not supersticious  

Our midwives say to start formula off on 30ml then go from there. Obviously Noah was only 6lb


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

We used to use the whole carton then see what he took! But then I knew nothing!


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## amandaloo

Margiesimpson and Lindz- Thanks very much for all that info    

Hopefulhazel- Best of luck for todays consulatation  

Amanda x


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## speeder

Hi Jana - hope the bfeeding is going a bit better now? I think you get so much advice from lots of different sources - and I noticed that a lot of it differed which really confused me.

My big sister who has b/f four babies was actually the best help for me.  She said "sod all the positioning stuff, just stick the nipple in the goddam little mouth when it's wide".  I know that sounds really blunt, but actually it worked for me.  I just waited for DD to open her mouth like a little fish and then put the whole nipple in.  You know it's a proper latch if the nipple looks equally in on all sides. If not, take it out and try again - might take a few tries at first. The other thing is about supply and demand - your body is amazing and will produce more if it thinks more is needed.  So I'd always b/f first and then express and only use the formula if little one is still hungry.  Also - and this advice came from my midwife - she said eat as soon as you finish breastfeeding, every time, even if it's 3am (I used to take a jam sandwich to bed with me).  You need loads of calories to make breast milk.  When I became lazy about doing that and didn't eat enough my milk supply really suffered very quickly.  Trust your body and your instincts - do you what you feel is right.  And lastly  if you just feel enough is enough, then don't stress about it - you've already given your baby colostrum and the best start even by doing that.    Lots of babies are bottle fed and they are just as healthy. 

Also - Marge is completely right - stress is sooooo bad for your milk supply too.  So take the pressure off yourself - you are doing a fab job xx  ps I breast fed for 6 months and my little one is plagued by ear infections. My sister's kids were b/fed for ever - bitty style - and they the most allergic bunch of kids ever! My friend couldn't breast feed at all and her little one is rarely ill.  So don't beat yourself up whatever happens.


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

did anyone see this?

http://thismorning.itv.com/thismorning/life/joellens-sperm-donor-discovery

/links


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Just back from consultant - elective c-section booked for the 21st June. This was my EDD 40 years ago when I was born. I was born a few days earlier. What an amazing 40th birthday pressie!


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## carrie lou

Yay Hazel!  so the countdown is really on for you now!


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## teresal

carrie -- sorry i am a bit late but massive congratulations on the birth of Zachary, has it sunk in yet he is yours, sorry haven't had time to read back yet. hope all is going well   

hi to the rest of you, i need to read back and see whats been going on then will do personals


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## olivia m

Hi Mini
The film Donor Unknown featuring JoEllen is currently showing (single nights only) at various independent cinemas around the country and will be on TV on June 28th on More 4.  My daughter and I will be part of the Q and A session following the showing at The Phoenix in E.Finchley N.London next Monday 13th June.  JoEllen will also be there.  All FFers welcome!
Olivia


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## margesimpson

Hazel - that's awesome - you know the day you're going to become a mummy! 


Teresa - hiya buddy - we missed you! M looks soooooo cute and soooooo grown-up! How's life? How's that blah work? I start back next week. Can't say I'm too enthused, but def need the money   


Mx


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## JanaH

Thank you for all the advice, really appreciate it.  He still doesn't latches on when I try and bfeed. 

I've got him on formula and I try and express twice a day. When I do it more I hardly get any out. Besides all of this I'm totally in love with my miracle.

Hazel I'm glad you've got a date for your c-section.   

Have a lovely evening everyone


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Thanks Olivia. 

Hazel - oooh thats my birthday!    Hes going to be a druid!    Prince wills birthday too!


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## amandaloo

Jana- Beautiful picture


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## northernmonkey

Jana - congratulations, and what a gorgeous photo.  Your little boy is beautiful and is making me very broody.... Sorry to hear the bf isn't going as planned but just one thing I'd say is don't worry about how little you express.  A friend of mine couldn't express a single drop and I found that when I was stressed I'd hardly express anything, but could get a full bottle in no time when I was relaxed.  Babies are much more efficient than a pump so the amount you express isn't necessarily a reflection of your supply.  If you do still want to perservere with it it might be worth asking someone (gp?) to check baby's tongue - another friend's daughter had tongue tie when she was born which meant she really struggled to latch on.  A tiny nick was made underneath her tongue (totally painless -takes seconds) and hey presto she was away.  Another thing you could consider is cranial osteopathy for baby - my osteopath treats loads of babies and apparently it has great results for all sorts of things including feeding problems.  Please don't take my advice as a message that I think you should be persevering - you know yourself when it's time to call it a day, I just thought I'd mention those couple of things incase you aren't ready to stop yet!  

Carrie - congratulations to you too, how is it going?  Have your inlaws thawed since his arrival?

Hazel - the countdown begins!  Can't believe the coincidence with the date and your own EDD! Is your husband more excited now?  

Mini - I just caught the end of This Morning yesterday - will definitely be watching the documentary when it is on later in the month.

Hope everyone and their bumps/babies are well.  I don't get much chance to post these days as my lovely girlies keep me very busy but I do lots of lurking!  Looking forward to reading of the upcoming arrivals and Marge's next bfp      .


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## carrie lou

NM - don't talk to me about the in-laws!  After practically ignoring us for the whole of my pregnancy, they are now completely overbearing and intrusive. 2 days after Zac was born, (1 day after coming out of hospital) I was coerced into having them over for a visit, the 2 BILs as well, despite feeling like I'd been hit by a bus  . I hoped they would just say hello, cuddle the baby, have a cup of tea and go - but NO - they stayed 6 HOURS and practically took over my house. They decided they were going to cook a meal for us which was a nice thought but they left the kitchen in such a mess afterwards that I don't think it was worth it, I would rather have heated something up in the microwave! Then they had to take some photos and MIL kept insisting I be in them even though I kept saying I didn't want to - my face was puffy from all the fluids they gave me, I was as white as a sheet even with make up on, hair a mess, wearing old ugly clothes because nothing else would fit - just did not want to be in photos looking like that. But MIL simply could not take the hint and kept pushing. Eventually I went upstairs with the baby and cried  . Later when I was feeling better I brought him down to see them and MIL kept fussing and telling me how to hold him etc. I nearly killed her. What really got to me was that Zac was so settled that day and I should have been catching up on my sleep while he was sleeping, instead of entertaining a bunch of lunatic in-laws  . They stayed in a hotel that night and wanted to visit again the next day but I said no.

All this 2 days after having a baby and quite a difficult delivery at that. MIL really should have a bit more sensitivity as I happen to know she had a really tough time after DH was born. It's DH's birthday at the end of this month and I am trying to avoid having them here again.


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## northernmonkey

Carrielou - it amazes me how many people expect to just descend on you when you've just given birth.  As for telling you how to hold your own baby   . Good on you for putting your foot down to a second visit though.  You've got to look after yourself in the early days and not worry about offending anyone - my mum lives 300 miles away from me and stayed for 2 weeks before dd#1 was born and almost 2 weeks after and as much as I love her, she almost drove me insane, and to be honest the whole experience spoiled my memories of my first weeks with my first baby.  Second time around I made it clear that the first few weeks were for dh, dd#1 and I and it was so much better.  As pinkcat says, at least your inlaws are showing definite interest now (6 hours though...!!!!)  - would it perhaps be easier for you if you could send them out for a walk with Zac when they visit so they can't wind you up too much?  Otherwise arrange something for a couple of hours after they arrive so you can politely ask them to leave!  Or could you go to them so that you can leave when it suits you rather than waiting for them to go? Failing that, it sounds like you'll have to be blunt - you can get away with it now anyway - just blame the hormones.    By the way, at least they want you in the photos - my fil gets the camera out when anyone other than me is holding the girls!!  It infuriates me - not that I like having my photo taken but neither do I like being left out!!


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## teresal

Carrie -- your inlaws are very like mine in so many ways, its like reading about them, the good thing is they live away from us so we don't see them that often, i have learned to bite my tongue and countdown till they leave or we leave (which can't come quick enough), they have had me in tears so many times in the past that now i try and not let them get to me, my DH is useless when it comes to them, he doesn't seem to see how/what they make me feel like but then again he goes into the mummys wee boy syndrome when shes around     which really drives me mad.
i have never had my photo taken with Meredith they always take pics when i'm not in the room or when DH has her i am ALWAYS asked to just move to the side a bit    i know they take pics when i'm not there cos i asked if i could download some pics they had taken of Meredith and DH and there was loads on there camera even from when she was first born and in hospital.
i am sure give them a few weeks and the newness of Zach will wear off and they will leave you to it, my in laws hardly even ask about Meredith now when DH is on the phone

NM -- nice to hear from you

sorry time is up, Meredith is just waking, so here we go for another crazy afternoon     i love this play time


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## ceci.bee

Carrie hun       I am so sorry you are having probs with your in laws. It is amazing how many people want to come and see you and tell you what to do esp at times when you should be asleep! I am living with my inlaws this month before going back to Africa at DH's insistence (I wanted to stay with my mum) and they are also driving me mad - they follow me around the house when I have the baby, and insist on watching nappy changing and bath times (such private special times for me and him) and won't take the hint when I ask them to leave and just hang around all the time. They also make stupid suggestions and FIL makes silly jokes (we had a horrible spell where Joshi looked like he couldnt breathe in the night and we took him to the paediatrician who was really reassuring and FIL actually was insensitive enough to make a joke about it) - so I know what you mean! You have to be tough and tell them to bugger off I'm afraid, its really hard but you HAVE to protect yourself, your sleep and your time with the baby - good luck and big hugs     

sorry have been MIA but so busy with moving and sorting along with being a sleep deprived new mum but wouldn't have it any other way!
lots of love to you all
Ceci


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## carrie lou

Thanks everyone for your support, it's good to know you agree with me and I'm not being unreasonable! Like I said I wouldn't have minded them popping in for a quick visit as I can appreciate they were eager to meet Zac. But 6 hours was completely overstaying their welcome and I actually felt like they'd invaded our house!  I've put my foot down with DH and said the only way they are coming for his birthday is on the strict understanding that they stay a maximum of 3 hours. I don't think DH really understands how overwhelming I found it (still makes me cry now when I think about it) because he started saying they're his family and he wants to see them blah blah blah. I said WE are his family, me and Zac, and he has to put us first now. He finally got the point and we have settled on a compromise: we are all going to meet at a restaurant near my parents' house (an hour from where we live) so neutral territory and they won't come anywhere near our house. Obviously this involves a bit more organisation leaving the house with a tiny baby! But it's worth it.

Ceci - I really can't imagine anything worse than living with your in-laws, you have all my sympathy!


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

carrie when the inlaw came around i went to bed


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## juju81

Shut the curtains and pretend not to be in!


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥




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## spooks

hi all, have just read up on all the posts - and now I have to go to bed without personals as it's past my bedtime  
hugs to all  especially the new mumies and babies  - just want to say i can relate to *all* the posts - Bfeeding issues, expressing nightmares, inlaws chat, dehydrated babies that needed re-admission  - all i can say in hindsight is just take it all one day at a time. 
I too will be banning all visitors for a good few days if I'm lucky enough to have another baby as i'm sure that's what hampered my breast feeding in the first place. we had 5 different sets of visitors the day after i got out of hospital!!!!!!! and i was too stupid to go and hide in the bedroom or tell them to bu88er off. Never again!  
On a happier note, the whole telling about the donor issue to baby spooks is going well and I'll post soon in more detail as I know some people were asking about it and wondering how to approach it. I had been dreading it and, like most things, once you do it it's not half as bad as expected. 
take care everyone, lots of love spooks


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Look forward to hearing it spooks. 

Re visitors we invited everyone a week later to get it out the way in one hit!


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## juju81

I suppose being kept in prison (hospital) for 5 days had it's bonus' as I got all my visitors out the way whilst in there!!!


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## amandaloo

Hi ladies

Carrielou- Oh My Goodness 6 hours you poor thing       i think an hour is enough. I think in a round about way I'm dreading that side of things as DHs mum and Dad don't live near us its about 1hr and 40 mins away and I'm worried that they will come down and stay for ages and I'm wondering how I'm going to fit breastfeeding in with ppl here especially if they stop longer... Glad you've come up with a compromise with DH and meeting up again!

Spooks- so glad telling little spooks about donor is going well   thats really good to hear.

Ceci- sorry to hear your having problems too with the inlaws    heck what is it with the inlaws this week on here  . Think id be going out with the pram soon as I felt up too it and tell them you don't want them to come  

Jana- Hope you are doing ok  

Juju- you caught up with emmerdale yet   

Hi to everyone including the lurkers  

AFM- well feeling a bit housebound this week if I'm honest. Don't get me wrong Ive been out to supermarket and taken my dog out but I'm that tired when i get back I'm literally stuck to settee or sleeping on there one or the other  . I slept that much yesterday afternoon i struggled to sleep last night lol cant win   . Anyway going to try and organise a few things to do next week  stop the boredom. Tomorrow midwife appt and hair coloured so least Ive got something to do!


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Amanda - I took the dog out yesterday for an hour after 2 days of not much walking with him and he was bored.
I really scared myself. I got half way away from home and the baby's head bouncing on my cervix was causing so much sharp stabbing pains. It was hot and I was sweaty TMI, but I was worried the damp feeling was the waters.   
I ended up having to walk like a snail home just so I did not get the ''breath away'' pain. I knew which ever way I went home it meant walking up a hill.

I am feeling more and more like I want to stay very close to home and not risk anything. I had quite a busy day yesterday. I folded all the washed baby bedding then I went to my old Rosemary Conley class and had a final weigh - I have put on 1st and 4lbs in total since before the IVF and only 12lbs since booking, so I pleased with myself. I did not stay for the aerobics needless to say!
I got some more bargains in the charity shop over the road from it though - a baby sleeping bag for £1.20!

Then I went to the farm shop and came home and made a lovely strawberry milkshake with some reduced strawberries I got there - yum.
Then the walk with the dog.

Then showered and went to antenatal acupuncture, then came home and slept for about 3 hours.

Now - when I look at it, I don't really feel that I did much, but it felt exhausting.

Today I am doing lots too - washing, want to strip the sofa of covers and wash, do my pots in the garden and I shall have to find a route to walk the dog which is easier.


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## amandaloo

Hazel- wow how well have you done ive put on 2 and a half stone well just a tad bit more than half a stone since starting tx and getting pg. I feel a bit embarrased now lol where have i gone wrong!! saying that one of my friends put 5 stone on so im not as bad as her!! I thought id done pretty well seems like im putting on about a pound a week at moment. Oh and i only go on about a 20min walk with my dog and its close to home. I have been thinking though the route i take is through the woods and is getting a bit dodgy as not a lot of ppl about in case of problems. Might just start walking round estate instead. Yes and know the feeling of funny pains when walking too!! sounds like your doing a lot of nesting


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## snoopygirl79

spooks - I'd be very interested to hear how you told baby spooks about the donor situation. It is the one thing that is really worrying me and how I'm going to tell my two. I think the thought of it is worse that actually doing it. I'm just really worried how they'll react and I hate the not knowing at the moment!!

Good luck to all those who are due to give birth soon.


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Amanda - I was overweight to start with though - so I had to be careful - did not want to get diabetes or hypertension. Hoping I will be lighter after the birth than before - wishful thinking LOL


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## carrie lou

Amanda - sleep as much as you can now cause you may not have the luxury when baby arrives!  Mine took ages to settle last night so I'm bleary eyed today. It's all worth it though when I look at his gorgeous little face  

Spooks - I too am interested in how you told baby spooks about the donor as it's something we will have to think about one day soonish.

Hazel - well done on the weight gain, I am still more than half a stone heavier than pre-pregnancy  Never mind it will come off in its own good time! Wishful thinking!

Baby Zac has been crying a lot in the evenings, I though he was hungry so been feeding him every time he cries which meant we were feeding every hour or so  Absolutely exhausting and I got nothing else done! But now I'm thinking he just wanted cuddles. He just woke up from a nap about 1 hour after I last fed him, crying, but instead of feeding him I put him in the sling and he settled really well so I think he just wanted to be close to me. Added bonus is I have both hands free!


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## juju81

Hazel, u might weigh less! I only put on 1.5 stone when preg and weighed less afterwards!!! Slowly crept back on since going back to work!!

Carrie, it's very early days hun, I know nothing about breast feeding, maybe the others could help. Maybe he's starte to realise tho that if he crys he gets u and milk in return? Maye try being hardcore and try and stick to 3/4 hourly?? As I said, I know nothing and u may think I'm talking rubbish but I'd be worried about getting into that cycle iykwim??


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## carrie lou

Juju - I think you're right, a lot of the time he was feeding more for comfort than because of hunger, he would latch on then doze off after about 10 minutes! so this evening I have been making him have a really good feed, waking him in the middle if necessary, then wait 2 hours for the next feed. so far so good.


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Hazel - i put on 2st lost a stone of it from the birth then had to lose the other stone through SW then decided to keep going and lose the rest of the weight from being over weight beforehand!   

Carrie - This happend to us but we didn't BF. He cried so i fed him then he didn't want the bottle and didn't know what to do. so gave him a dummy    it worked until he started waking up for it whern he was 4mths.    so we then had to get rid of it. If i think back to the night i gave him the dummy i now know he just wanted a cuddle.     

Ju - He died   (emmerdale)


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## teresal

hazel  i put on about a stone when pg and still have loads to loose, was overweight before pg and i haven't went below what i was before starting tx. 

mini -- hows ds settling in nursery, are you enjoying some time away at work

carrie  could just be a cuddle, meredith is still cuddly more when shes tired though nowdays otherwise i just get slapped out the way. it just takes time to get used to what they want/need

amanda -- het as much sleep as you can, not saying you won't get much sleep once baby arrives but you definately won't get as much

spooks  well done you discussing this, i too am interested in how you done this, i think i will get the book and hopefully it will be something we read regularly (ohh my sister doesn't think we should tell Meredith about IVF never mind the donor side of it, thinks it will make her different to her friends mmmmm i think not, just as well its not up to her)

ceci  living with in laws, i can't think of anything worse   

sorry have to run, hi to everyone else hope all you mummies to be are resting and enjoying your last few weeks as a couple before you become a family yes a family


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## ceci.bee

Carrie am BFing and at 2 weeks Joshi was feeding every 1-2 hours - his stomach was small and could not handle much more milk that would last for 2 hours or so. Remember he was inside you only 2 weeks ago so will need to beclose to you and be cuddled a lot at the mo. We were told at 6 weeks we could start stretching the time between feeds using the dummy, which has worked but always cuddle him when we give it to him, and now he is going 3-4 hours between feeds and I finally feel like I am emerging from a chrysalis and feeling like a human being again. It is hard but good to keep stimulating him during a feed to make sure he gets as much as he can as this will help him last a bit longer - but his body is burning up energy and is learning how to digest milk, so will need a lot of feeds until 6 weeks when his body can finally get more energy from the milk and digest it more efficiently so go a bit longer between feeds. It is tough feeding so often, but when you go to get him weighed and you know that he is thriving due to your care it makes it all worth it!
Feel free to PM me if you want to chat more about it

Quick qu to the mums here - have been trying to dream feed Joshi to help him go through the night but am struggling with both expressed milk in the bottle (he drinks it, wakes up and howls for boob) or the breast (he won't wake up enough to suck) - any helpful hints?? 

lots of love and   to all - 3 weeks left and counting with the inlaws until we go back to Africa can't wait!
C  

love to all
C


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## juju81

Can't help afraid ceci because I bottle fed and Noah just took it. What time are u trying him? Just keep persevering, there'll become a point he'll just take it   Wow Africa again. Nice for Josh, does he have to have jabs etc like adults? 

So, what I don't understand is how come bf babies have to be fed so frequently but bottle fed babies generally don't? I know they say formula is thicker therefore keeps them going so is this the only reason? Noah only had an oz for ages but it kept him going for 3hrs, I'd be in a mental home if he fed anymore frequently than that


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## Fizzypop

Hi Ceci - I cannot offer any advice yet! (but I'll have a look in one of the many books mil has given me to see if anything can help...quick question for you. When did you intro the bottle? I heard 2 weeks, then 4 weeks but then I also listened to a bf expert at the baby show who said she doesn't believe in nipple/teat confusion. Arrrgggggghhhhhhh.

Juju - agree I will be in the mental home with 1-2 hour feeds but DH reckons I'll get thru it cos I'll have too! 

AFM - arranged with work that I'll be around full time to mid July, then part time after that (taking 2 days hols each week) for as long as I can manage. Also will work one day a week from home. Not long left now - got next week, then off at Glastonbury for 1.5 weeks, so got 1.5 week back at work after that then in my last full time week the new lady is coming over from HK to take over my Asia workload. Nursery walls will be finished this week and then mum'll come and do the glossing when we're at Glastonbury. Carpets being done 4th July then nursery furniture coming around 20th...it's all coming together!!!! Just need to find time to go and buy the buggy. BTW, does anyone else think it's funny that I'm handing my workload over to two people!!!!!my maternity cover on London and a new lady in Hk. Bet I won't get credit for that as I should!!!!!!


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## carrie lou

Fizzy - wow, all getting so exciting! My midwife said if you are Bfing, give nothing but the breast for 6 weeks at least to avoid confusion and to allow your supply to get established. that's just one opinion though.

Ceci - thanks honey for the advice. You're right when the midwife weighed him the other day I felt really proud, that was my feeding that did that!   

Juju - I think it's because formula is more calorie rich than breast milk so can keep them going longer. Also with BFing you can never be sure how much they've had, they might have just had a snack and be hungry again soon.

Well I think we are winning - since yesterday afternoon Zac has been feeding for about 45 minutes every 2 hours. Have to wake him up halfway through though! If he cries in between feeds I just cuddle him and he settles well. He even went for nearly 4 hours overnight which was great.


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

We were told at antenatal that when a baby is born the stomach size is in line with the amount the breast produces - so they only need 2-3ml of colostrum at a time as the stomach is only size of tiny marble the first 2 days, gradually expanding as the breast produces more, they have to feed frequently. However, the colostrum 1ml is equivalent to 30ml of formula in terms of nutrition.
So the bottle fed baby will have 30mls of feed  in a tiny stomach and this will expand it faster - they will feel full and won't need to feed again for a while.


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## snoopygirl79

I just thought I'd add something from my experience. My girls were in Neonatal for 3 weeks and when we came home, they were on a 4 hourly routine and I was told to stick to it rigidly. I was BFing and managed to get my supply going by feeding them and expressing (which I hated doing!!). But every night they'd both scream from 7-10pm and we had no idea why. I thought about feeding them to stop hem screaming but was really worried about breaking the 4 hourly routine that was drummed into me as I presumed they knew best and I was very naive and still getting used to having 2 babies early!!

In hindsight, I wish I'd just fed them as I think that's what they wanted, cluster feeding to get them to sleep longer through the night but I didn't, I just waited till the 4 hours was up as that's what happened when they were in hospital.

I guess another reason why its good to BF more often is to get your supply up as I was expressing every 3 hours in hospital for them. 

My 2 never took my expressed milk through a bottle for some reason so I did get DH to do the dream feed with formula so I could get some sleep but when I did wake up after a few hours, my boobs were very full and sore so I had to either express or hope they needed a feed!!

Not sure if that's any help or not for you!!


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Hopeful Hazel said:


> So the bottle fed baby will have 30mls of feed forced into a tiny stomach and expand it - they will feel full and won't need to feed again for a while.


I certainly didn't force feed my baby.  He took what he wanted. Even now he only wants 2-3 oz. twice a day.


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## teresal

Can i just say a very happy 1st Birthday to a special wee boy tomorrow (its saturday so probably won't get a chance do it then)

 
 
  HAPPY 1ST BIRTHDAY BABY SIMPSON   


LOVE AND HUGS FROM MEREDITH XXXXX


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## teresal

ohh yeah i certainlay didn't force feed meredith, she was demand fed as well so at the beginning she only took small amount every coupke of hours


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## carrie lou

Ooh happy birthday baby Simpson!     Have a very special and lovely day


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## *ALF*

Sorry not posted for a while so firstly;

CARRIE & JANA -     HUGE CONGRATULATIONS ON THE SAFE ARRIVAL OF YOUR PRECIOUS LITTLE ONES    ​ ​ ​Just to add my two-penny worth into the breast/bottle feeding discussions - I think, although it's important to read and seek as much info as possible regarding breast feeding before birth, it is equally, if not more important to remember that we are all individuals (including our babies) and unfortunately we don't all follow the text book descriptions of how things should work - my gorgeous new bundle certainly didn't read the breastfeeding guidelines before she made her appearance and obviously the info I absorbed didn't make it to my breasts cos neither my baby or my body managed breastfeeding very well. J had latching on problems (despite looking as though she was latched correctly) and my breasts had major supply problems - they certainly DIDN'T know how much to produce and obviously weren't aware I'd had a large, hungry baby!!!​What the text books also don't take into account are the raging hormones, sleep deptivation, screaming hungry baby and feelings of guilt that all play their part in the first few weeks after birth.​My honest advice - do what is right, given YOUR situation, for YOU and YOUR baby, nobody can or should ask any more than that.​​​
Spooks - you made me smile when you said baby spooks asked where you bought her from - J did exactly the same at that age, I just replied 'we didn't buy you you grew inside my tummy'. Her latest is trying to get her head around the whole growing-up continuem (baby to little girl to big girl to grown up/lady) - converstions in our house often go along the lines​'am I a big girl?'​'Yes J you are'​'Was I a baby?'​'Yes you were, you grew in my tummy, then you were born and were a baby and then you grew and grew into a big girl'​'What was I before I was a baby in your tummy?'​mummy goes quiet...................​or 'what will I be after a lady?'​'you'll stay a lady for a long time'​'and then I'll die'​'yes'​'I don't want to die'​mummy goes quiet again.................​​​
As for the telling - we just read the My story book to her one day - although to be honest I've changed alot of the wording but her My story book is on her book shelf in amoungst all her other books and we just read it to her as and when she chooses.​
Ceci - sorry can't help as never did dream feeding.​​​
Will leave it there for now. Back to lurking for a bit.......​
Love to all​ALF​xx​


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## juju81

Hazel I'm not quite sure what your trying to imply with your comment but Noah was most certainly not force fed any food. My midwife told me a babys stomach is the size of a walnut and to start at 30mls and increase once he's drunk the lot. He didn't drink the lot for months. You couldn't force feed any baby. They would just be sick.

I didn't breastfeed, I chose not to for a number of reasons. But, like Alf there are a few people on this board who tried but couldn't for a number of reason and your comment could be quite offensive for some of us.

Happy birthday baby Simpson. 

Carrie, would love to see a pic of zac xx


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## Fizzypop

I feel like I have got so much to look forward to in terms of bf!!! My other thing is that DH did some mid wife training as part of his nurse training and helped teach mums to bf. I'm hoping this will br a major help but at the same time I might find stressful because he isn't as patient with mr as he is with others lol!

Alf - my friends little boy doesn't get the concept of being having a relation that isn't brother/mum/dad/gran/grandad. I got asked if DH was my dad and he thinks his dad is his mums brother...their innocence is so cute!!!!


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## juju81

Whoops not sure what happened there!!!

Fizzy, it's lovely yourll have his help if needed 24/7 xx


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Goodness I wish I never used the word forced. I was not implying that anyone was ''force feeding'', that is different. But a baby has to work less hard to take from a bottle than the breast and the volume will be larger expanding the tiny stomach making them feel full for longer. That is what the midwives were saying to us.

I am not a mummy yet and I clearly have no idea. So ignore everything I say. 

We have had this discussion on the parenting club thread I am about to join. At the end of the day, you experiment until something works with your baby.

I was bottle fed as a baby as my mum did not produce any milk at all while I was in SCBU for a week. I don't think it has damaged me in any way in the end, physically or educationally. Sometimes a mother has no choice, and you provide everything your LO needs when you are a good mummy however you can, and however it is right for you.

I also did not sleep in the night at all for 18 months and my mum ended up on valium due to colic, constipation and later cheese allergy. May be these were due to the formula I was fed. But I am sure the research into formula has improved no end in the last 40 years and what people will feed now will be far superior to anything that was available then.


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## juju81

Formula these days is as near to breastmilk as u could get without giving your baby breastmilk, if that makes sense! I was breastfed and ended up being dairy intolerant. I don't think it's got anything to do with whatvyour fed. If it's going to happen I think it's going to happen. People like to blame formula for alot of things!! There are pros to formula feeding but you never see anyhow advertising those facts!!!


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

well again the MWs seem to be 'forcing; people to BF with the 'force fed comment from them.    
I felt so guilty not being able to BF my baby that comment like force fed really doesn't help.    My baby had no choice but to be bottle fed for his first feed as i was very ill after the birth. 

anyway now it was the best thing as DH was able to feed him and baby is a bouncing well developed boy. I wish people would realise how sometimes the so called feeding police makes others feel guilty or upset by words like forced fed. 

Marge - happy birthday baby simpson   

I feel really upset now


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## juju81

little lord is a lovely litle chappy he's done alright on evil formula


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Hes a credit to the poison!


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Will it help if I go back and remove the post and we forget I ever said anything?


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## carrie lou

Mini - don't feel upset!     I know I haven't been a mummy for very long but already I can see that you just have to do what is right and best for you and your baby, even if it's not what the text books say or what you planned to do. For example, I never intended to co-sleep with my baby but some nights it's the only way he will settle so I'm afraid I just do it so that we can all get some sleep!


Juju - I will try to put a photo on tomorrow!  Would love to show off my boy.

Fizzy - it's great that your DH will be able to help you with BFing, it helps so much to have a supportive partner. My DH (though not a nurse!) was really good in the first few days when I was struggling a bit, reminding me how to latch him on, bringing me a drink because I always seem to get thirsty when feeding, and just telling me I was doing well. I'm sure you will get on brilliantly.


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## *ALF*

HH - if it's any help, I realised you didn't mean 'forced feeding'


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Thank you Alf


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

So what do they mean by force fed then?? The nhs need to do some serious retraining in midwifery and how they make women feel undermined and worthless


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

They showed us 3 marbles - a little tiny one of 5ml volume, a medium sized one and a larger one of an ounce. They said this is how the baby's stomach expands over the first 0-5 days as the milk comes in. They told us that 1ml of colostrum is equivalent to 30ml of formula. I think they were trying to reassure us that if we were ill or the baby was in SCBU that if we managed to self express 1-2ml at a time into a syringe then this would adequately feed the baby and for us not to feel like we were failing, rather than imply that bottle feeding was a failure.

So they said the baby will take more from the bottle than would be from a breast, expanding the volume of the stomach quicker, and they would feel full for longer and be content for longer. They also said that you would have to feed from the breast frequently to establish a supply, but the baby would get enough from each feed even if it was such a tiny volume at first.

The word force was not meant to mean that you would deliberately shove milk down your child when it was not wanted, which is what you have all decided to think that I have said. Rather that the volume would force the stomach to be larger than normal quicker than in breast feeding.

Obviously a sensitive subject and I wish I had never joined in.


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## sweetdreams73

Hazel - We know you didnt mean to upset anyone hun     , its just its a very sensitive subject so many people think you "should" breastfeed your baby but some girls and some babies just cant do it thats life... I have no idea whether I will be able to breastfeed my twin boys when they arrive, I hope I can but being realistic it might not work for me or the two boys and it might just be too much for me to supply milk for two hungry babies... especially as mine will be premies as they will have to be delivered by 36 weeks..... I dont know I will just have to see how it goes and if I cant I cant I will just feed formula....aslong as my boys are fed thats all that matters.... dont stress hun!! we all have our own opinions no one is right or wrong    x

Mini - You are a wonderful mum hun and dont ever feel bad about not BFing your baby... it doesnt matter no one is judging you sweetie    

Juju - big hugs to you too    

Baby simpson - happy 1st birthday little special man....      OMG we have the same birthday... Its my birthday today too!! but I am just a bit older than you 38 today not 1...   . have a fab time lots of love and    

AFM - The best birthday pressie I could possibly get this year is expecting our twin boys so feel very blessed and couldnt possibly want anything else... although it was rather nice to get breakfast in bed and lots of lovely pressies, get taken out for lunch and dinner and best of all got a beautiful pressie and card from our twins... and DH has booked a private 3d/4d bonding scan in couple of weeks as a pressie too... just cant wait to see their little faces...very exciting!!

Hope everyone all has great weekends, lots of love and    to everyone

sweetdreamsxxxx


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## amandaloo

Aya ladies

Have you seen the time   been up since 345 . Read ******** update status   had cornflakes then thought I'd nip on here !

Wow you ladies have been debating 

Re the debate I recently went to antenatal classes and they did a full session on breastfeeding/ feeding On the feedback form I got last week I've mentioned on it that I would have no idea how to bottle feed and think that it is equally important to show ladies what to do with this too as rules and regs change all the time. I understand about health promotion and NICE guidelines etc but still ladies should be shown both ways . I want to breastfeed but I'm not being forced into it if I dont like it or it's not working or baby is not happy . I think every lady has the right to choose what is right for them and their newborn and noone should be made to feel guilty 


Baby Simpson - many happy returns

Hazel-   

Sweetdreams - 2 boys must have missed that post wow congrats  

Hi to everyone on my iPhone so can't do massive post 

Afm- went to midwife yesterday U know when I was off In April and I was telling dr I was exhausted well I've just found out today I've had low iron count noone followed it up from when I had my bloods done in April ! Shud have been on iron tablets since then no wonder I've been tired. Was told If my levels don't go up I'll have to have baby under dr care as I could potentially bleed heavy after birth and they don't let me go on birthing suite at the level I'm at now !! How bad is that they missed it bit annoyed really especially when it felt like my GP didn't believe me :-/ and was insisting I take mat leave early . I'm rather annoyed


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## Fizzypop

Amanda, that is pants. I've been up since 6.30 but thats not as bad as 3.45!!! I tried laying in bed looking at my iphone but it kept vibrating what with the amount of emails you girlies have been posting! My iron levels have gone up from borderline to well above okay. I don't know if you're a veggie or anything but I put mine down to eating lots of steak, fruit and generally being healthier (I haven't been super good during this pregnancy). Don't know if that will help you though. What were your levels? I wonder if you've got enough time to build them back up?

FIL is coming today to help DH build the greenhouse and I'm on a mission to finish the nursery...as well as tidy the house. 

Got my gavison advance on prescription so hopefully that will make this horrible acid burn go away.


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

Amanda - that is really upsetting.
I hope they can sort it out.
You can have injectable iron if it is very low and you need a rapid response, but they usually only do this when you have tried oral. You should feel an improvement in 2 weeks on iron, but this is a bit close and probably not enough time to correct things.

I have had to chase all my blood results as no one was going to look them up unless I prompted that I had them done.

Hope all is well for you     

I have gone back to the original post yesterday and removed the emotive word which was not meant to get such a reaction from any of you anyway, but since you have all jumped on it and been so upset I have changed it. It has already cost me a sleepless night wondering how that all happened. 

As for me, I don't know whether or not I will be able to breast feed. It is going to be fine either way. I have been to the education on it, understand how both work and I will see how it goes.

No one is going to make me feel guilty. The baby will be fed that is all that matters.
I have bottles, a steriliser and 4 little packs of ready to go formula that I got weeks ago as a back up plan, as I said my mum did not produce a drop of milk after I was born. I don't realy have strong feelings either way as I will have to do what feels right when I try and how the baby is. If I can breast feed then great - cheaper and on tap, but if I can't then there are advantages to bottles too - like other people being able to feed.


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## carrie lou

Amanda that's a really good point, i had an antenatal class on BFing and was shown how to latch baby on etc. but no one has ever shown me how to make up a bottle! I'm really not sure I would know how if I had to do it now! Even if you BF successfully there may come a time further down the line when you want to introduce bottles and people should be shown how to do this correctly. Really women should be given the information to make up their own minds, rather than being made to feel there is only one right choice. There are pros and cons both ways.

I've been BFing now for 2 weeks. Yes breast is best (nutritionally I mean) but it's also   difficult and I haven't even had any major problems (touch wood). I intend to stick at it as long as I can but I can see why other people decide not to. Formula is a perfectly acceptable alternative.

I hope you get your iron levels sorted out, that is really annoying! Mine were just in the OK range at the end of my pregnancy but then I had a bleed, not even a very big one, and felt really awful for a few days afterwards. Anyway hopefully this won't happen to you.  

Lots of     to everyone

We are going to a garden party today hosted by one of DH's colleagues, his mates are all desperate to meet Zac! So we said we would go just for a little while (depending on how he is - never taken him to a social occasion before!) Hope the rain stays away


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

carrie - formula is the same nutrionally as Breast, or else they wouldn't grow and develop, and they wouldn't let you use it otherwise, and the hospital wouldn't of given it to my baby while he was in scbu and i was in HDU. 

Hazel - Thanks for you explanation

I hate the feeding debate, its so one sided and makes me so angry.


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## ceci.bee

Happy birthday baby Simpson!!     hope you guys are having a really lovely day and enjoying your gorgeous boy

also wanted to send every one a group   have just been reading all your comments about feeding - it is such a special time feeding your baby and so sad that there is so much guilt and negativity around feeding choices - it is such an emotive subject and only each mum can do what is best and right for her baby and all the babies will grow and thrive on here, whatever each mum is able/chooses to do

lots of love to all
Ceci


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## snoopygirl79

When my girls were in Neonatal, they were given formula for the first couple of weeks which was absolutely fine by me. They were fed through a tube that went up their nose and straight into their stomach. But they told me I had to BF them for 48 hours before we could be released from hospital. They never gave me the option to bottle feed which I think is so wrong as BFing twins is extremely hard work!!

I did manage to do it and came out of hospital but I felt so much pressure to do it and really didn't enjoy it  But when Maisie had reflux, we were told by the GP to give her formula as it's heavier and should sit for longer in her stomach. DH did all the bottle feeding which we did as a top up after some feeds as I had no idea how to make up a bottle and I was too tired to learn!!

Hazel - I'm so sorry you lost sleep over this. I completely understood what you were saying. I hope you can get some more rest now as that's what I wish I did more!!  

Happy Birthday to sweetdreams and baby Simpson!!


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## carrie lou

Sorry Mini, what I meant was, breast is said to be best because it contains other things like antibodies, that formula doesn't. Of course babies grow and thrive on formula as I'm sure plenty of mums on here would testify.

I also don't like this debate, it seems to be creating issues between us and I really want to stay friends with all of you lovely ladies. So maybe we should all just agree that each mum does what is best for her baby, and leave it there.   

P.S. Happy birthday Sweetdreams!


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## Mistletoe (Holly)

I have set up a part 19 as we are nearing the end of this thread anyway.

Fresh start and new topics please....

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=265126.new#new


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