# Trying to conceive naturally between failed IVFs



## Efi78

Hi ladies

As you can see from my profile below I have had my fair share of pain. 

We have serious MFI factor but have managed to conceive naturally twice - and miscarried.

After the 4th failed IVF we decided to give it another go naturally and would like to track the next few months along with other ladies who have made a similar decision

So, third month of trying, ovulating tomorrow and  bedding every day to give it the best chance.

Anyone else on the same boat?


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## Aley

Don't know if I can be considered in the same boat but after 4 IVFs I am taking a break and trying home insemination. I guess that can still be count as "natural trying" since the only difference is how the sperm gets in. I am not 100% sure why the IVF failed for me tbh, I have one partial blocked tube but nothing else too solid and I always had good blasts transfered. Will try and see.
Since you've conceived natural already I think you probably have a good chance of it happening again.


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## Efi78

Hi Aley

Definitely considered naturally trying with home insemination.

How does home insemination work by the way?


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## Efi78

I mean how do you track ovulation and what is the equipment that you use


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## Aley

So far I’ve used ovulation sticks, the really cheap ones and just the ordinary syringe. Legs up and stay in bed for as long as possible. We did do it late at night so basically didn’t get up until morning. 

We’ve only tried this month and I am not sure I caught the actual lh surge but I did it when the tests where nearly as dark as control line. 
Looking into buying the digital one from clearblue, not the smiley face ones but the big thing that tests for lh and oestrogen if I am correct.


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## Efi78

These are the sticks i use as well. Yesterday showed flashing smiley ie high fertility , today smiley ie peak fertility. We bedded yesterday, and will do again today and the next two days. Period due around 17 July.

When is your next period due? Also may I ask if there is any MFI factor?


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## Aley

Yes, the clear blue digital but there is also a clear blue monitor that is big and more accurate or so they say.

Well, our DS is our friend, he is a young guy, had a girl pregnant at some point. Had him tested for STI’s obvs but at this stage we won’t test his sperm. I think when people are on this journey for a long time they think about test straight away but in fairness a heterosexual couple doesn’t go to the doctor to have sperm, tubes and ovaries tested before they start to have sex and trying for a baby, they just do it. 
So for now we’ll just do it without asking too much from him. If it doesn’t work for a few months then we might test his sperm but not before. 
We put him on vitamins though and he’s happy to take these. So few months on vitamins and inseminations every month and we’ll see. 

This is going to sound weird but I actually don’t know when my period is due, I am day 20 or so, next week probably. 
I don’t think I will test, I think I just want to wait for my period to come and test if it’s late. 
See, I was very stressed with ivf so now I just want to relax. I don’t want to ask too much from myself. I think in my head I am waiting for a nice surprise kind if thing. 

Also, forgot to ask, what vitamins/supplements are you taking?
So far I am only on vitamin d, b complex, folic acid and omega 3. Trying to get hold of Ubiquinol.
I've read "It starts with the egg" and now I am all over supplemets.
Also I changed my diet a bit, avoid plastic as much as I can...just in case it works some miracles.


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## Efi78

Hi

One of the same here. I decided to take it easy. I have realised through the years that there are some things you can't control. If it is to happen it will.

Supplements: ubiquinol 300mg per day, pregnacare vitamins, solgar salmon omega 3, vitamin E 1000mg per day, vit D, l arginine 6000mg up until ovulation. 

Diet: a few months ago we decided with my husband to visit a nutritionist and lose weight. We went on a high protein, good fats, good carbs diet and low sugar. I have started using only organic products and also added kale and quinoa on our diet: during the last IVF I had 17 follicles and husbands DNa fragmnetation improved a lot. However, we had no success. The diet is detox and we both lost a lot of fat. It was purely for our wellbeing though not fertility but who knows. It may help.

Cosmetics: again, switched to organic products. Not for fertility, but because I don't want all these chemicals in my body. They are very toxic. Also, no BPA products and nail varnish only organic  phalates free.


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## Aley

Hey Efi,

How are you keeping? I am out this cycle but looking at the good side of the things my period came in time at exactly 28 days  
Want to start tracking my temp this cycle but forgot to do it on day. Not sure if that counts... It looks like it's quite spot on if you do it correctly. Do you look at CM, temp or just using opk?


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## Efi78

Hi Aley

My period is due in three days so i will know for sire then. No credible symptoms yet though so probably out. 

I only use OPKs. My thinking is that temping helps you to see if you ovulated not when ovulation is about to happen. Therefore I feel that there is no reason to add another stress on my list. If it is to happen it will.

Good luck this month and keep memposted on how it goes


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## Laquinn

Hi Ladies

Mind if I join you? I was booked in for de IVF when I got pregnant naturally last month but sadly miscarried. So DH and I have decided to try naturally for another couple of cycles before going for treatment. As you can see from my signature my issues are immunes and age (!). Very sad to have had an early loss again but they do say you're more fertile for another couple of months after, so praying hard for a good egg!

Efi - My DH had terrible results on the Sperm Comet test when he abstained for longer; then scored brilliantly after abstaining for less than five hours. There's a lot of research saying that shorter abstinenence time (in some studies of just an hour) can correct DNA damage.

Aley - I got fed up shelling out for Clearblue Digi and just buy the internet cheapies now - means I can test a few times a day. We're trying the Sperm Meets Egg plan. Temping stressed me out so I don't bother but I guess it must be reassuring to know you've definitely ovulated. Keeping it really simple with supplements - just a prenatal, vit D and omega 3. I tried 'It Starts With The Egg' supplements but they made me feel ill - might have been thyroid related. Last month I drank pomegranite juice and red raspberry leaf tea for my lining and had a fertility massage. Also relaxed more by having a few glassed of red wine and walking.


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## Efi78

Welcome to the group Laquinn

I am 10 dpo today. Expecting period on Tuesday. No pregnancy symptoms so I am possibly out.

I haven't tested yet. I usually wait for my period to come and If it doesn't arrive i test three days after. In my first two pregnancies I had sore boobs but with my third I didn't get those until week 5. 

I am also a fun of rasberry leaf tea and pomegranate. I also throw into the mix vitE, l arginine and baby aspirin to thicken the endometrium which has helped to thicken from 6.8mm to over 8.5mm.


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## Aley

Efi, you're better than me. Although I said I won't test I did at 9 dpo and 10 dpo which obvs was negative. I think having some leftove tests from a few months back is so tempting. I've never had a positive pregnancy test so in my head I think I am a little bit obsessed with lines and seeing one  

Laquinn, sorry to hear about your misacarriage. You have nothing to lose to keep trying for few months, a year even, DE will always be there regardless of age. Have you tried Ubiquinol? It should be good for egg quality. I am only taking a small dose 100 mg and a few other things. I was told I have immune issues after I had a uterine biopsy, however I am not a huge believe in it. I tried steroids and intralipids just to get more upsetting side effects but no pregnancy so now I am going on the more holistic approach. As you I have nothing to lose and a few more years to play with so I might as well.


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## Efi78

Aley

I so much agree with you. I am not a believer in immune therapy etc. These things are not proven. Plus steroid not good for the baby. I have tested everything, if this is my problem then let it be it.

Laquinn, I agree with Aley. DE will still be an option after one year so give it a go naturally. How long did it take you to conceive the previous times?


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## Laquinn

Efi - Thanks! I am CD7 so waiting to ovulate. I hate testing early too and would rather wait 'til AF arrives too. Pregnancy and AF symptoms are the same for me so I've stopped even trying to guess! I'm too scared to add more supplements but getting a lot of vit E in nuts and avacados. I only started trying at 43(!) I concieved straight away, miscarried then concieved straight away and had our angel at 26 wks. Since we lost her I've not had a whisper of a bfp for two years until last month...

Aley - Ubiquinol made my heart rate plummet - it was scarey! I have a very wierd system - low blood pressure and Fibromyalgia so I have to keep things simple. I would give OE another year but so sick of trying and not getting anywhere - at this age only one in every 40 eggs is any good... But we'll roll the dice for another couple of months anyway. I do wonder about immunes treatment myself but terrified not to do it after a late loss...


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## Efi78

Laquinn

Just check your hormones to ensure everything is good and try naturally for a year. If you have conceived naturally three times something works. Also check blood clotting issues. These are issues that may cause moscarriage but treated easily


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## Laquinn

Efi - Do you know what tests I should get for hormones? My cycles are regular so I guess they must be okay.... I think my main problem is egg quality due to age.... On the other thread they are telling me not to waste any more time on my own eggs!


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## Efi78

Hi Laquinn

Check thyroid function and progesterone for sure. Also maybe do  thrombophilia tests to rule out blood clotting issues.

In terms of donor eggs age doesn't play any role so no reason to hurry up if you don't feel like it. I agree that age is an issue but on the other hand a woman that has conceived three times naturally can't have such bad egg quality. 

It's up to how fast you want to have a baby. If you are patient to give  one more chance  to own eggs then no reason to hurry up.

How do things look on your husband's side?.


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## Laquinn

Efi - Thanks. I get my thyroid blood results tomorrow so fingers crossed. Progesterone was fine when I got it tested before (according to the NHS and my reproductive immunologist) but at my age I guess more is more! Had loads of blood clotting tests done after our late loss but reproductive immunologist did them again when I was pregnant just there. 

Thank you for your reassuring thoughts about egg quality - I guess some people do manage it at this age! We are getting a bit impatient though... It's been two years since we lost our girl and we thought we would have had a rainbow by now...

As I was saying DH's initial Sperm Comet result said he was infertile but he had abstained for five days. He redone the test after abstaining for four hours and it was excellent (!) very low DNA fragmentation. So when I get a positive OPK we try and get two attempts per day in for a few days on top of doing SMEP.

Hoping that the theory about being more fertile after a miscarraige is right for this month...

How are you doing?


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## Efi78

I started spotting yesterday and have light brown and pink discharge. Expecting period tomorrow. At least we are going on holiday tomorrow  so will have time to think.

Then we try naturally for one or two more cycles and in September IVF. We have to use the TESE sperm and the last frozen blasto. Then after this no idea. We really need to stop at some point but I don't know how.


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## Efi78

So....period arrived but it is unusually light. 

I don't think I am pregnant because I have no sore boobs or other symptoms. It could be an anovulatory cycle or I am perimenopausal? No idea and weird. It may get heavier over the next few days. Weird. I guess it may be because of ageing. I have an AMH of 7.7 and many follicles though and no symptoms of menopause.

Anyway. I ll let it go and enjoy my holiday. Whatever will be will be. I have an appointment with the endocrinologist this month. I might ask for hormones check up


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## Aley

Efi, my periods have been lighter since the IVF and a lot of ladies said they have the same issue.
I think the large dose of hormones do play a role in the way the cycle is regulated afterwards so I wouldn't stress too much. However if you haven't tested and the period is very light I would test just to check...a lot of women don't know they are pregnant until 3-4 months later as they assume they had some "period" at some point.


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## Efi78

The thing is that I had the most recent IVF in April and since then I have had three normal cycles.

And this is way too light. Just came back to the hotel, checked and the only thing i saw is a tiny brown discharge. I will leave it for a few days and If I get sore boobs I might get a pregnancy test. Otherwise i just assume it might be breakthrough bleeding from anovulatory cycle. I guess at my age perimenopause might be starting. But again, most recent exams didn't show such a possibility. 

I showed the discharge to my husband and he laughed it off saying that this can't be a period. No idea. 

Ectopic pregnancy? No way 1. no sore boobs 2. i wouldn't bleed so early as embryo would be tiny

Hubby is saying that I am so fed up and in disbelief that the pregnancy scenario can't even play on my mind. But honestly....no way. It's stupid to even think this could be the case


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## Aley

Is not a must that you will get sore boobs, every pregnancy is different. Plus you can still bleed from different places such as cervix (common in pregnancy) or hematomas. The size of the embryo plays very little importance in the bleeding. 
It's up to you if you want to test or not but do consider all the above.


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## Efi78

I don't know. I am in denial or I guess I feel stupid to even consider that this might be a pregnancy. I am like "don't be stupid". 
Anyway. I will leave it for a few days, see how it goes and then take a pregnancy test.

How are things going for you? Are you doing home insemination again this month?


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## Laquinn

Efi - Everything crossed it's implantation bleeding. Good you're on holiday to take your mind off things... 

Hope you are well Aley?

AFM - CD10 still waiting on a positive OPK and drinking lots of red raspberry leaf tea!


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## Aley

I understand what you're saying Efi...but we’re here because we're still trying so try and be positive. Is possible!

I will have a colposcopy this month but if no biopsy is needed I don't see why I can't this month.

I am good, Laquinn. CD 10 is early. What day do you normally ovulate?
Best of luck! Hope that smiley face will come soon.


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## Laquinn

Aley - Why do you need a coloscopy?

I ovulated CD13 last cycle but don't know if the miscarraige might affect this cycle... I use internet cheapies so have to draw my own smiley faces (!) We're doing SMEP so evey other day 'til we get two lines...


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## Efi78

Just an update for me. Period got heavier yesterday so definitely here. Sad it hasn't worked but happy that I am not perimenopause yet. On another note, i might have ovulated later this month thus we may have missed the ovulation window. 

So, next fertile window 30/7-04/08. fingers crossed

Feeling a bit down and sad today. Will be fine soon

How is everyone else doing?


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## Laquinn

Hi Efi - Sorry to hear AF turned up   That is good that you're not in perimenopause yet! How long is your luteal phase? Have you tried SMEP? You'll be trying again before you know it... Have you read any of Julia Indichova's blogs or books? They can be quite uplifting when this journey gets you down... I find Headspace quite good too when I'm feeling low.

No sign of LH surge for me yet. CD12 so ovulation might be a bit later this month... Have heard some people say that miscarraige can delay ovulation for months so hoping that is not the case! I think it usually happens within 2-4 wks but doing every other day anyway to cover ourselves.


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## Aley

Laquinn, I had cin2 2 years back and since I had some bleeding in between periods I was referred for one. Had 2 previous smears normal so I hope is nothing in relation to that and it's just my body adjusting to the life after IVF.
Good luck with the opk..I use cheap ones too. 

Efi, sorry to hear your period came...I understand the sadness. Even tough we don't expect it it still comes.


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## Efi78

Laquinn

Luteal face is 12 days. It was a very weird period this time as i seemed to spot for more days. Anyway. It is what it is. Looking forward to next ovulation window. What is SMEP? I will definitely check the blogs you suggested

Aley, all the best with your colposcopy. Everything is going to be ok for sure. IVF throws your body off completely sometimes and takes time to adjust back.


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## Laquinn

Aley - Probably just a precaution but good you're being looked after properly. A wee bit of a line on the OPK this morning so I think it will be within the next few days...

Efi - Sperm Meets Egg Plan: http://spermmeetseggplan.com/


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## Aley

Thank you girls! I hope is nothing.

Question, when you test few days before predicted ovulation are the opk faint positive or stark negative. I’ve tested today and there is a faint line already , cd 9.. ovulation should be around cd12-13.


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## Laquinn

Aley - I usually get a faint positive a few days before so that sounds about right. I test morning, noon and night because in older ladies the time between LH surge and ovulation is usually shorter and the egg and sperm cells don't last as long. When I concieved our angel it was straight after a miscarraige with ovulation on CD15. I don't know why you're supposed to be more fertile after a miscarraige but hoping it's true!


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## Efi78

Laquinn
That's what we do more or less. Problem is that we also have male factor so very low chances. Husband has been on clomid for a while so maybe it has improved. We will check in August but I dread that results will not be good. I am completely disappointed

Aley - as I am useless with reading lines I just buy the smiley face OPKs. Usually get 1-2 days flashing face of high fertility and then smiley face that shows pick. I usually ovulate day 13-15.


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## Laquinn

Efi - Is it DNA fragmentation that's the issue? Have you tried twice within the space of an hour or half a day? Agate's files on here say ejaculation five days in a row before trying then trying twice a day around ovulation can improve sperm... That was certainly our experience from the SpermComet tests we done...

I miss the smiley faces on CB digi but can't stand shelling out for them!


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## Makingapoppyseed

Hello everyone.

We are trying naturally between failed IVFs but one of my problems is that in a natural unmedicated cycle my lining only ever gets to 5.3mm. I used to also only have a 21 day cycle which also didn’t help and may have been a reason for all the early losses but I have now lengthened that to 28days.

My queries are
1. Is a natural conception with 5.3mm lining ever possible?

2. Has anyone found a dr who will give them a protocol to enhance natural cycles? for my FET I took estrogen to thicken lining. Could I do this on cycles when we trying naturally? In the uk they seem to only offer Ivf as a solution rather than looking at any other issues.
Many thanks for any thoughts.


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## Efi78

Laquinn - our is a wayyy long story. I will try to be quick so that I don't bore you. 

Hubby have had a surgery for undescented testicle when 12 years old where we thought his oligospermianis coming from. Doctors prescribed him clomid which worked very well and we conceived naturally the first time on the 2nd month. This pregnancy ended up in TFMR for T21. Huge heartbreak...
Second time with clomid we conceived 3rd month. 8 week scan no heartbeat...
We then decided to see an andrologist to understand why this happens as it seemed that hubby had low testosterone issues. We found out he had a pituitary tumor and high prolactin. He was rescribed canergoline which started to work and encourage spermatogenesis. As soon as he started recovering because of an allergic reaction he was hospitalised for 5 days with an asthma attack. He was then given a lot of steroids to recover. We moved on to IVF and fell pregnant again. No heartbeat at 7 weeks....
Next IVF we discovered that from 20-30mm that he had started producing he had 100k. apparently because of corticosteroids? Aren't we unlucky or what.
Dr prescribed clomid which increased numbers in two months to 6mm but also siggested a DNA fragmentation test which came back at 63% which apparently contributed to my miscarriages. he insisted on TESE which we have done. I explained to the doctor the situation and insisted  to have another COMET. He really thought that nothing would change but on day of TESE the COMET result was 40%. The COMET results on TESE sperm were great-24%.
Come April18, we go to IVF with great sperm, me having 17 follicles and 12 eggs retrieved. 7 fertilised, high quality up to day 3 then a 4CC blasto on day 5. 
You see...i have now turned to 40 and my eggs are not wow. I know that when we have enough sperm I conceive within three months. That's why I am disappointed now because we either don't have sperm and clomid hasn't worked this time or my eggs are not good anymore.

We now have two vials of sperm left, my poor old eggs and one 3BB blasto from the 2016 IVF. My hope would be that clomid moght have increased numbers and we may be able to conceive again. This was the third month of trying but again...I am 40 now so maybe I can't conceive that fast anymore...


Apologies for the long post...


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## Efi78

Makingapoppyseed said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> We are trying naturally between failed IVFs but one of my problems is that in a natural unmedicated cycle my lining only ever gets to 5.3mm. I used to also only have a 21 day cycle which also didn't help and may have been a reason for all the early losses but I have now lengthened that to 28days.
> 
> My queries are
> 1. Is a natural conception with 5.3mm lining ever possible?
> 
> 2. Has anyone found a dr who will give them a protocol to enhance natural cycles? for my FET I took estrogen to thicken lining. Could I do this on cycles when we trying naturally? In the uk they seem to only offer Ivf as a solution rather than looking at any other issues.
> Many thanks for any thoughts.


Hi sweetheat and wellcome

Have you checked for blood clotting issues?

Have had thin endometrium issues and tried the following:
Baby aspirin (make sure you consult your doctor on this one. Not for everyone)
Vitamin E 1000 per day
L arginine up until ovulation (be careful bcs it increased your sexual drive too much)
Rasberry leaf tea two cups per day
Pomegranates in salad

Endometrium increased from 6.8mm to 8.8-9mm


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## Efi78

Laquinn

In addition to the above I havr a fear that TESE might have damaged his testicles further. There is no reason to think of that but we are so inlucky that it wouldn't surprise me!


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## Laquinn

Efi - So sorry to hear what you've been through - that is some journey. I think male factor is underestimated in most cases but it sounds like your hubby has been through a lot poor thing. Good to know you can get good results when things work but and have two good vials left - definitely sounds like trying naturally is worth a punt. You'll still have good eggs at 40 - what about trying ovulation induction with IUI? Would give you more attempts for less money...

Hi Poppyseed - I'm not sure about how thin a lining can be but still result in a successful pregnancy. On the over 45 thread there was a lady who used an online consultant to do ovulation induction cycles getting tests and scans at local clinics and feeding them back to the online consultant. I was on the thin side whilst taking Letrozole and concieved last month whilst trying naturally (sadly miscarried) after taking red raspberry leaf tea and drinking pomegranite juice. Efi gives good advice - also try walking a lot or doing exercise to get the blood flowing.


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## Efi78

Laquinn - i would be very keen to try that if sperm numbers are good. However, when we have enough sperm i conceive naturally relatively quickly anyway. And then miscarry...

Anyway. We try again this month and see how it goes. CD5 today...all going well i am ovulating in 8-10 days


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## Makingapoppyseed

Thanks Laquiin and sorry to hear of your loss.


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## Laquinn

Efi - Have you had full immunes testing done?


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## Efi78

I have done thyroid and blood clotting testing. I have hypothyroidism which i treat woth thyroxine and I am heterogenous Factor V Leiden which i take baby aspirin for and if i fall pregnant clexane. I haven't done natural killer cells testing etc. I have done some research and there is not enough credible evidence out there. Plus the first one wasn't a miscarriage as per se. It was a termination at 17 weeks. The andrologist thinks that it was due to sperm dNA fragmentation, the gynecologist says it was 90% down to the egg. So basically they have nonodea. I think it was possibly a combination of a few things with no definite answer.


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## miamiamo

efi - I am sorry you are going through this. Have you considered undergoing IVF or IUI?


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## Efi78

Hi miamiamo

Yep.i have been through 4 IVFs.
First one was with PGD. One normal embryo, useless doctor desteoyed it bcs he couldn't transfer, 2 frosties
Second, BFP, miscarriage at 8 weeks
Third, hubby's sperm was destroyed by steroids, no transfer
FET, 3BB blasto, BFN
Feb18 hubby did TESE, 3 vials retrieved, high quality sperm
Fourth IVF, 12 eggs retrieved, 7 fertilised, one 4CC blasto transfered, BFN, no frosties

Now left with two vials of sperm and one 3BB frostie.


In the meantime we are trying naturally as husband is on clomid hoping numbers will go up again and conceive naturally again. 

Long story isn't it? This has been going on for 6-7 years. I was around 33 when we started trying. 

What about you miamiao? Are you giving it a go naturally?


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## Efi78

Laquinn - did you get your ovulation lines?


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## Laquinn

Efi - Yes! Got the lines today CD15 - I was so relieved!   Wearing poor hubby out now...   How are you doing?

I get so tired and hungry, sore boobs just before I get the lines - must be hormones - but I always thought you were supposed to be in a party mood when you ovulated   I'm trying not to obsess too much... Might be a good time to start a new Netflix series


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## Aley

Hi girls! How are you keeping?

Makingapoppysead, I don't have much of an advice to give in regards to the thin lining. I think the fertility doctors like to see it over 6-7 mm. I don't think taking anything hormonal realated like estrogen tablets  without supervision would be a good idea though. If I was you I would probably try a natural method. A lot of people are advised to try Aspirin which shouldn't be harmful although studies didn't show that it increases the odds. Try the rasberry leaf tea, I've heard a lot of good things about it. I am drinking a cup a day of that as well. It 's good for the uterus anyway. 

Laquinn, happy to hear you had your positive. Fingers crossed now.

Efi, how are you? Is always hard to read sad stories but considering you did get pregnant I think is just a matter of finding the golden egg and the golden sperm...not the easiest but there is always the hope.

I am a bit lost here to be honest. Day 11 but no positive yet. Keep testing twice a day with cheapies, there is a line but faint somedays fainter than others. I know is early so trying not to panic. I deffo had positive before and I have lots of ECWM...will keep testing and keep with the inseminations. Every other day and everyday after I get a positive...if I get one.


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## Makingapoppyseed

Thanks Aley. I’ll get drinking!

Hope you get a positive opk soon!


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## Laquinn

Thanks Aley. I'm very bloated! What about increasing your cups of red raspberry leaf tea? It's estrogenic and might trigger the LH surge - I was drinking 3 cups a day...

I was also drinking a couple of cups of decaf green tea which I've read helps with ovulation too but best to drink it at least a couple of hours after any intake of folic acid as it's supposed to interefere with the uptake of it.


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## Efi78

Laquinn - have you watched "Dark" on Netflix? It's bsolutely amazing. It's in German and watched itnwoth hubby to practise my German but got fixated. Other than this "Narcos", "House of Cards" and "Thirteen reasons why" are mazing if you haven't watched before. All the best with tgis month's try

Aley - don't worry about the LH surge. CD11 is too early. 

Pollyseed - natural remedies are better indeed unless doctor has advised otherwise. 

AFM - still on CD5. We are in Zurich and tomorrow going to Geneva. Enjoying the sunshine by the lakes. Very beautiful city, super clean but...it is kind of boring. And eating outside is far too expensive even for London standards!


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## Laquinn

Efi - Yes, loved Dark! I've not seen Thirtreen Reasons Why yet - started The Staircase and Sharp Objects which are both good. That's amazing you can speak German! 

Zurich and Genenva sound lovely. My sister lived in Zurich for years but I've never been. I tend to go cheaper places! When do you think you'll ovulate then? Are you regular? That's me CD16 - FF says I ovulate today but I feel like I popped yesterday. Not testing 'til 12DPO 'cause I can't stand the bfns...

Hope everyone else is well?


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## Efi78

I ovulate on any day from CD13-CD16. Most times it is CD14. 

I don't test either until I miss period. However, I am thinking that it may not be a bad idea to check from CD10 onwards, reason being that if I have for example a chemical I would like to know. No matter how devastating it may be, you still receive the information that there was a fertilization ie you still conceive. I don't know. I may overthink. 

In terms of sperm. I know I ovuöate around day 14-15. i get hubby to keep it three days before and then bed day before ovulation, day of ovulation and the day after. Do you think this is a goodnidea in terms of DNA fragmentation? On one hand sperm may be more fragmented on the other hand we don't have high numbers so we need to keep it for three days. Any opinion?

"Dark" is amazing indeed. They left too many questions unanswered in the end though, therefore I am looking forward to the new season!

I look at Indichova's site the other day. Very inspiring indeed! 

You see, the reality is that in the old days women had their first child when 20 and the last in their 47s. Why doesn't it happen anymore? I guess it must have to do with the way of life and food. They were eating fresh non processed food, stayed away from chemicals and despite more poverty had less stress. Nowadays, although we have so much more comfortable lives, we eat less good food, we use more chemicals and have loads of stress. And this is true for both men and women. So my men have sperm problems nowadays.

But I choose to listen to one of the doctors advice: A woman can have children as long as she has period, no matter what her age is. And this comes from a very well known doctor

I recently had a discussion with my mother in law around our problems to conceive. She was very encouraging and her advice was to let nature take its course. I was a bit downbeat because I have now turned 40 and she told me the story of a friend of hers, whose wife fell pregnant at 54. i was like "come on, it must have been donor eggs", and she said "no that was in 1975 when IVF didn't even exist". 

That is not to say that we should leave it that late, but it makes you wonder whether all this noise around declining fertility is nothing more than profit making.

Oh now that I remember another friend of mine who gave birth to three children after 42. I highly doubt it was donor eggs because the children, all three, are her spitting image.


----------



## Aley

Hi girls!

I had a horrible day today. Had my colposcopy, still low grade changes. Had biopsies and the whole lot, this month I am out and depending on what those biopsy shows I might be out for a while if I need further treatment. 
At this point I am just at the lowest. I guess I can’t catch a breath yet...
Sorry for the rant.

Hope everyone is good.


----------



## Laquinn

Efi - That is a bit of a dilema but might be worth focussing on improving the fragmentation and going for less abstinence before ovulation - the difference in DH Sperm Comet test was night and day with less abstinence. The urolologist and nurses at our clinic were amazed asking DH what supplememnts he was taking - but the research backing up less abstinence as a low cost way of improving DNA fragmentation is freely availiable online. In a lot of indigineous cultures they bd two or three times a night and older women have no problem - some anthropologists reckon this is how primitive man appraoched procreation too. It only takes one sperm. 

I hear you on modern living affecting fertility; you just have to look at the number of older women who had babies after the war. The world's oldest natural mother was 59 when she had her son. I think you're right about the fertility industry taking advantage and scaremongering. My brother-in-law's aunt had her daughter at 49 after getting married at 45 - she had a few losses before but did manage it.

Aley - So sorry to hear about your day   Hope DW is spoiling you. Be kind to yourself. I find Headspace quite good when I'm hit with bad news. You are still young in terms of fertility and need to focus on your own health if you need treatment - which you might not. Hope it's all okay and you feel better soon


----------



## Efi78

Aley - sorry to hear that. Hope all goes well and no further treatment is needed. Like Laquinn said you are still very toung in fertility years. Everything will go well and you will start again treatment soon


----------



## miamiamo

Aley - sorry to know that. I keep my fingers crossed you won't need any further treatment


----------



## Efi78

How is everyone doing?

Today CD13 I got my smiley face. Unfortunately we are out this month as husband goes for COMET test tomorrow so sperm is gone. We will try in the afternoon but not enough sperm will bild up ie chances are low. 
We will also do sperm test and have the results by 20th August.

Laqquinn - are you on your 2ww?

Aley - how is it going with your medical treatments?

Miamiamo - have you had enough rasberry leaf tea this month?


----------



## Laquinn

Efi - Everything crossed for you for tomorrow   You never know - maybe a bd in the afternoon will do the trick! They say the second shot is the best for quality...

I'm 6DPO. Not holding out much hope but I think we got good coverage. Had AF type cramping for 15 minutes after bding 4dpo so hope we've not ruined anything. I'm not going to test until 12DPO - my luteal phase goes on forever - 16days! So testing too early prolongs the agony of a bfn!

Hope everyone else is well?


----------



## Efi78

Laquinn

We went for the COMET test today. Interestingly enough the nurse told us that Dr Ramsay usually requires the man to keep the sperm for 12 hours only (hubby abstained for 36). I am curious to see difference in results because the previous times he abstained 3-4 days. I will let you know of the results on the 20th. I am very curious indeed


----------



## Laquinn

Efi - That will be interesting to see those results... Some say twice within an hour is best! https://www.medicaldaily.com/how-get-pregnant-faster-men-who-ejaculate-twice-within-hour-may-be-more-likely-363738


----------



## Aley

Hello girls!

How are you keeping?

It's intresting to know all the details about sperm   I have to admit, as good as I might be when it comes to a woman's fertility I know nothing about sperm...
We still didn't have any motility/numbers tests for our donor  and tbh I am a bit scared to have it done. Stupid I know but I would like to assume everything is good. I also put him on high dose Vitamin A recently as I was reading that it can help.
Any other recomandation?


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Aley! How are you?  

I'm 10DPO and just doing the usual 2ww mentalling!    I'm going to test on Sunday  

I just took DH off extra E AND C on top of his prenatal as I read that the combination can actually cause damage. Seperate they are benefitial. Other than that just trying to get him to cut down on the cakes, biscuits and booze!


----------



## Efi78

Hi girls!

The literature out there varies. Vit C and E are supposed to benefit. 

Aley - I have heard the opposite for vitamin A. How are you otherwise?

Laquinn - hope this is the month for you!

AFM - i am out this month. Hubby did COMET test on day of ovulation. He was unwell with a cold the next two days so no bedding. We did a lot the previous days that we were on holiday but i wasn't fertile then so...unless a miracle happens no way we succeed this month
On a separate note another friend announced pregnancy. They had severe oligospermia and very low AMH and managed to conceive naturally. I am really happy for them but feel really low about myself and the ordeal I have been through....sigh...
It seems I will have to go through another ICSI cycle in September with chances of only 16% to succeed...


----------



## Aley

Oh, I actually meant to say Vitamin C! 

Laquinn, best of luck tomorrow! Fingers crossed.

Efi, I know other people’s pregnancy announcements can be upsetting but especially if they are miracle pregnancies I tend to see it as a hope. 
What exactly is comet test? Sorry, as I said I know very little about sperm.

I am good otherwise...I had weird cramps last night and some spotting today which is weird since is day 23. 
The other news from me is that in 3 months time my wife will be trying along with me. So we have two uteruses to play with.


----------



## Efi78

Aley this is wonderful news! I am sure you will have success

COMET is a test that tests for DNA fragmentation in the sperm. Sometimes the sperm DNA may have problems despite other parameters being all good. I think give it sometime woth your friend and if it doesn't work then test. Don't put yourselves under stress with no reason.

I agree with you. My friend's pregnancy is a rather positive story. He had 1.2m sperm in total and she has non-existent AMH at 37. Amazing right?


----------



## Laquinn

Efi - I read taking either C or E seperately is great but taking them in large doses together causes oxidadtive stress. 

Encouraging story about your friend. You never know - it might be you this month!  

Aley - Everything crossed they are positive signs   Brilliant news about doubling your chances! 

AFM - Bfn this morning   But I had a lovely day out with DH so feeling better. One more month of trying naturally then onto de.


----------



## Aley

Oh, I am sorry, Laquinn.


----------



## Efi78

Laquinn

Sorry to hear that. But who knows. It may happen out of the blue. One thing I learnt during the last few days is that it's not worth stressing about it. If it is to happen it will


----------



## Laquinn

Thanks Aley and Efi  

Just gonna try and focus on getting fit and healthy and in a happy place. Such a tough jouney


----------



## Efi78

I know darling. I am in such crossroads. Not sure what to do. The only thing I have experienced in this journey is failure. And then somehow it knocks and affects other parts of my life. Such a hard journey. 

We are making decisions soon though. It's just so hurtful seeing the end coming. But this is life. I just would like to get rid of the pain and stop counting the days I am fertile etc. Just be how I used to be that I had no idea when my period is due and didn't know when I ovulate.


----------



## Laquinn

Know how you feel Efi. Feel like we know far too much about all of this stuff too... So fed up putting everything on hold all the time.

Hope you can find some peace with your decisions x


----------



## Efi78

Laquinn

Just noticed on your profile that you have had. Mosscarriage at 26 weeks. May I ask the reason? If you don't want to discuss no worries.
We had one TFMR at 17 weeks for T21 and related helth peoblems.


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Efi - So sorry to hear about your late loss  

Ours was an 'unexplained' stillbirth. Post mortem and obstetrician couldn't give us a reason - the baby was perfect genetically - that's why I got all of the immunes testing done after. I tested positive for ANAs which can sometimes 'cause heart blockages but they found no evidence of that. I've just been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and there's a condition where you have too much amniotic fluid which can 'cause stillbirth- I was massive in pregnancy. Just before our baby died I felt her movements slowing down but midwives refused to see me. Absolutely heartbreaking.


----------



## Efi78

Laquinn

I am so sorry to hear for your late loss.

I can't believe  midwives refused to see you. Unacceptable.

You sound like a very positive and kind person. Let's keep in touch within this thread even when we go thrpugh IVF and inbetween cycles.


----------



## Laquinn

Thanks Efi - Yes, it would be good to keep in touch. Really appreciate the support.


----------



## Efi78

Hi ladies

How are you today?

Laquinn - some news on the DNA fragmentation. It is indeed much lower at 27% and a lot of greens ie healthy sperm. Clomid has also pumped up the numbers to the normal range and 65% progressive motile sperm. Doctor basically advised to try naturally as the odds considering my age and considering the fact we have conceived twice naturally are the same as with ICSI

On a positive note I did some hormonal checks and looks like I am far from menopause with goods levels of esteogen, FSH etc. I am checking progesterone on day 21 to check that all is good.

So...my thinking now is ok try naturally but also possibly discuss with doctor the possibility to use some low dosage fertility drugs to produce 2-3 follicles and then try naturally

My thinking is that in my age i will possibly produce 12-15 eggs with IVF. Out of the one or two will be normal and then the embryologist will try to inject the right sperm. The possibilities are not that high and maybe nature can do this much more efficiently?

Anyway. Just want to update you

How is everyone else doing?


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Efi

I'm good thanks - in the 2ww... AGAIN! I'm 3dpo so just trying to keep busy.

That's fab news about the DNA fragmentation results and that the doc is recommending ttc naturally. Also good news about the hormones. I was on Letrozole induction cycles which worked well at first but then just gave me a cyst and thin lining - but might be worth trying if you respond well. More eggs = more chances!

I'd definitely say try naturally but I suppose if you got the right protocol and clinic... Would you PGS?

If I get AF in a couple of week's time I'll be starting bcp for DE... My first IVF cycle!


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## Efi78

Hi Laquinn

I was thinking bout menopur. My lining is not very good and clomid/femara would thin it to probably below 7mm. At the moment with some help from baby aspirin amd vitamin E it can reach 8.5-9mm.

I don’t know. We will see how it goes. 

I wouldn‘t PGS tbh. It feels that I intervene on nature  too much plus having been through 4 IVFs I really really don’t trust doctors and embryologists. What if the process happens on a weekend and they have a junior there and does some damage? I have 0 trust honestly. 

Good luck with the DE cycle and wishing you all the best. Which clinic have you chosen? Do you live in London?


----------



## Laquinn

Efi - Menopur sounds like a plan.

Going to Zlin in the Czech Republic for DE. I live in Glasgow. 

I've paid my deposit and everything but natural bfp then m/c got in the way... Probably crazy trying naturally again this month but just feel it will help me make peace with DE...


----------



## Efi78

Laquinn

Good for trying naturally. You never know

Looking at your profile you have remarkably good hormone levels. 

We continue naturally at the moment. We ll see how it goes. 

Aley, any news on your side?


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## Laquinn

Efi - Last month trying naturally...   My Mum didn't go through menopause until she was 53 so I imagine I'll be the same, but my periods are shorter now and I think I might be lacking in estrogen so I'm probably perimenopausal.

Whereabouts are you in your cycle?

I'm 7dpo today so in nine days time I'll be starting bcp for DE cycle if AF comes... 

Hello Aley


----------



## Aley

Hi girls, sorry I've been quiet.
Not many news from me I am afraid. I am again in 2ww. Tbh, these 2ww don't feel like the ivf 2ww...if that makes any sense.
I guess with ivf I knew I was at least getting fertilisation and embryos, now I am just all in the dark. Not a bad thing I guess.
I had my hormone checked as well. FSH came back at 8.1 which I know is still in the normal but much higher than I expected. I am trying not to compare myself with others but is hard.
Next week planning on doing Progesterone as well. God knows what that will be.

Efi, I was reading your diary. Natural is a go then. I guess, that's a rather a good thing. I would give anything not having to go through IVF again. As you said the fact that you conceived already is a positive. I think once the body knows what to do it will do it again. Have faith   Also I share same thoughts about pgs.

Laquinn, good luck this round. You may never know, even if you do go ahead with DE you might end up naturally pregnant again, not unheard of. I recently heard of many women getting pregnant without help in their late 40s.


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## Laquinn

Aley - Where abouts are you in the 2ww? FSH can jump around - one month I had my FSH tested and it was 30 and the next month it was 7 - I wouldn't worry about it.
It will be interesting to see what your progesterone is but then again it depends if you know exactly when you ovulated...
Best thing you can do for your hormone levels is relax - easier said than done I know!  

Thanks for the good luck! I'm 8DPO - gonna test 12DPO. I think we've given OE a decent go and can move on quite happily with DE. If I do get a bfp this month it's probably gonna be quite stressful with the odds - I think one in every 40 eggs at this age can make a viable pregnancy. DE will be a huge relief in a lot of ways although I know there are no guarantees there either. 

Efi - I started reading your diary too - it's been a rough journey    Everything crossed you can do it naturally


----------



## Aley

Laquinn, I am 6 dpo. I had a positive opk at cd12 and strong symptoms of ov on cd13. I will test my progesterone on cd21as that will be more or less accurate. 
I have no symptoms as per usual.

I don't feel an urge to test but I know that will come eventually 

How do you feel? Any symptoms?


----------



## Laquinn

Aley - I'm 9DPO. I tested this morning and got a bfn   I tested 'cause I was getting breast pains but it looks like I'll be starting bcp next week to cycle...


----------



## Aley

9dpo is quite early though, test later one and see. 

It seems that you are walking with open heart into DE IVF. I hope one way or another it will work out well for you.


----------



## Laquinn

Thanks Aley. I'll keep testing 'til AF comes! 

Yes, I am actuallly getting quite excited about DE IVF now - I know there are no guarantees but the odds are so much better and I would love to be pregnant for Christmas!


----------



## Efi78

Hi girls

6DPO here. Too early for symptoms.the odd thing is that i ovulated earlier this month on day 12.

Aley - i am also going to check progesterone levels on day 21. i haven‘t done this for a while and better to make sure i am having enough progesterone for a pregnancy

Laquinn - 9 DPO is to soon to test anyway. I have a feeling that you will be pregnant this Xmas either with DE pr OE.


----------



## Laquinn

Efi - How are you feeling? When will you test? I hope your feeling is right!!! I'm 13dpo today - been driving myself crazy with the line reader on the Fertility Friends app! I thought I saw a hint of a line but I think it was just wishful thinking...

I ovulated early this cycle too on day 11 if the opks were right...  but I saw some ewcm on day 14 so maybe I didn't ovulate 'til later.


----------



## Aley

Hi girls, I am terrible at updating.
My progesterone came back at 54. I am 10 dpo today and had some cramps yesterday morning but apart from that nothing. I dread the testing. My period should come next week anyway so will see.

Efi, I sometimes ovulate on day 12 but as long as its over CD 9 shouldn't be an issue. Deffo test the progesterone, it helped me put my mind at ease.

Laquinn, how are you holding on? Any recent testing?


----------



## Laquinn

Aley - Good news about the progesterone. Fingers crossed your cramps were from implantation 🤞🏻

I’m 14dpo and got another bfn this morning and had some spotting so it looks like AF is on her way for me 😐 Still testing but after last bfp not showing up ‘til 20dpo! 😳


----------



## Efi78

Hi girls!

10DPO today. Boobs are killing me. Had light spotting today so i guess the witch is on its way 

I am not testing until i miss my period which is due Wednesday-Thursday. If i miss the period  then i test.


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## Aley

I am sorry Laquinn. Hugs!

Efi, I am 13dpo and my period is due Wednesday or so as well. I haven’t tested...I just can’t plus felt really pre menstrual today. Unfortunately I suffer with bad PMS and in most of the cases that’s more than enough for me to know my period is just around the corner. No point in wasting pregnancy tests.


----------



## Laquinn

Efi - That's great you can hold off - I got so sick of seeing bfns this month! But you never know - they sound like pregnancy symptoms too....

Aley - Thanks   I get really bad PMS too. Feel great now AF has arrived - so that's me on the bcp to cycle in November! I'm really excited about it - please let it work!


----------



## Efi78

Hi girls

So looks like period is coming today. No more sore boobs and light spotting. A bit sad but hey ho, another cycle begins!

On a positive nore I will be avle to drink a few glasses of wine when i go out with my friendss tonight

Aley, did period arrive on Wednesday?

Laquinn, how are you doing? Ready for IVF? When does your cycle start?


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Efi. Sorry to hear AF is on her way but yes - a new cycle; new hope. 

I'm on a bit of a downer tbh - it's our wee girl's birthday next week so two years since she was born sleeping. Grieving and feeling tired with ttc.   But it might be the bcp affecting my mood too... I am excited about IVF but worried incase MF gets in the way due to DH such poor SpermComet test when he first got tested... We've got a transfer date of Nov 6 but clinic gave us a date for hysteroscopy this month and then changed it after we'd booked flights. Dread to think the amount of money we've spent on dud flights and cancelled treatment... Hopefully when the dates are confirmed we'll feel a bit more positive  

Enjoy your drinks tonight - I'll raise a glass to you when I'm out!


----------



## Aley

Hi Efi, I was just thinking of you today. Have you tested at all this cycle? Spotting doesn’t equal a full blow period although I know what you mean, when you know it you know. I hope you’ll enjoy your night out.

How are you, Laquinn? 

My period is not here yet, I did have some weird cramps but only at night time...really weird! and apart from that nothing. I did start acupuncture again after a while and maybe that’s why it’s a bit late. I haven’t tested and dread to. I’ll wait.

Sorry Laquinn, I’ve just seen your post. Big hugs to you. It must be so hard. 
I hope you’ll have a good experience with DE. 
Since you’re worried about mf have you thought about embryo donation? That was on my cards at some point and...maybe still is if this trying natural thing doesn’t work.


----------



## Laquinn

Aley - Late sounds promising! How long will you go before testing?

Thanks for the hugs! I think the pill isn’t helping my mood but I just have to take it for another 12 days so hopefully my mood will lift a bit then. But then I don’t know how all the other drugs will affect me... Hopefully it will all be worth it. DH wants some genetic link to a potential baby but might be swayed if the cycle is affected by MF.


----------



## Efi78

Aley! This sounds really promising!your period ws due on wednesday wasn‘t it? I think it‘s time for a test!

Laquinn,
In terms of DNA fragmentation what if your husband abstains only one day and you do ICSI? You don‘t need a lot of sperm for ICSI and you will have good sperm DNA 

I know what you mean about TTC. It wears me down as well. It has been over six years now for us amd so much heartache. Hang in there though Laquinn. It will happen in the end.


----------



## Aley

Efi, you’ll probably think I am crazy but no tests yet, I agreed with my dw that if the period is still late by next week or the end of this one than we will test. I am day 32 today and my period is normally 27-28 days although it did happen to be  later than that at times, not recently anyway.
I still get on and off cramps and a full feeling in my lower abdomen. 
I’ll let you guys know anyway. 
Say a prayer or two for me...


----------



## Laquinn

Efi - That is the plan to have a really short abstinence time and do PICSI - we know the quality is better that way from the tests. Hopefully it will work in practise!  

Thank you for the support - really appreciate it   Really hope we get our babies this year   Less than two months 'til we cycle now!

Lighting a candle and saying a prayer for you Aley!


----------



## Efi78

Aley - this is a very good sign. Fingers crossed for you that it is a BFP

Laquinn - when do you fly to Chech Republic? Are you also going to Prague? Such a beautiful city. It’s like a fairytale

AFM - saw the doctor today for progesterone levels. He confirmed I ovulated but level was at the lower end. However, as this month I ovulated on day 12 I should have done that test at day 19 not 22 ( day 21 was a Sunday). We will do a cycle monitoring this months and check progesterone on different days of the cycle to monitor how my progesterone rises and falls during the month. He also mentioned Clomid, however this creates thin endometrium so I am not very keen. My endometrium goes up to 8.5mm with baby aspirin and vitamin E. We also discussed Letrozol and Femara. 

Laquinn - i understand you have tried Clomid before. How did you find it?


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Efi - Going in a couple of weeks for a hysteroscopy and scratch - flying to Prague but staying in Zlin. When we cycle in November we'll stay in Prague so looking forward to that  

I tried Letrozole - I responded well at first but then ended up getting a cyst and having a poor response and thin lining. A lady on the OE over 45 thread got her baby with Letrozole...


----------



## Efi78

Aley! How is it going? Did you test?

Laquinn, are you going to continue trying naturally until November? 

CD7 for me today. Expect to ovulate arround CD13 and plan to do a lot of baby dance. 

At the moment I am focusing on studying German which is a good distraction from TTC. Hubby will be transfered to Frankfurt next year and I will follow. Hopefully i will get a trnsfer as well otherwise will need to look for a job there. I wish I could be a full time mum during the first year there though...sigh. Wishful thinking i guess


----------



## Laquinn

Efi - I'm on the pill now so my next 2ww will be November! Gonna try and get fitter and lose a bit of weight in the meantime.

Always good when you are in your fertile window... Everything crossed this is your month... That's amazing you're learning to speak German! Definitelty a good distraction. That's exciting that you're moving to Germany. It's so frustrating when you don't know what's happening with ttc and you're trying to plan stuff...

Hope you're doing well Aley


----------



## Aley

Hi girls, sorry I've been a bit quiet. As it turns out I am pregnant but it's still early days and I am sh&t scared  
I am still amazed though. 

Efi, best of luck in the next few days! I tried to learn German twice, it never worked.   You seem more determined than me though.

Laquinn, good luck with the hysteroscopy. I hope you don;t find the pill to harsh.


----------



## Laquinn

Congratulations Aley!!!   Wishing you a very happy and healthy 9 months  

Fingers crossed they don't find anything with my hysteroscopy to delay my cycle... Pill is sending me on a total rollercoaster of moodiness but just one week left to go


----------



## Efi78

Gongratulations Aley!!!!!wishing you all the best for the nexts 9 months. Please keep us posted on how it goes

Laquinn - what is the pill for and why are you doing hysteroscopy? Is it something the clinic has suggested?

AFM - CD9 and intend to BD a lot  

This group is very positive and brings luck. I have a feeling we will all be pregnant within the next three to four months!


----------



## Aley

Thank you girls! I really hope I'll send a trend here and you'll all follow me quickly


----------



## Laquinn

Efi - Doing hysteroscopy for peace of mind before we cycle - initiated by us not the clinic. Just want to be absolutely sure that everything's okay and I'm having a scratch done anyway as part of my immunes protocol. 

Good luck for the BDing! Autumn's a nice time of year for fertility vibes and getting cosy! I hope your prediction is right    

Aley - Wouldn't that be nice?! Here's hoping


----------



## miamiamo

Aley - amazing news, keep my fingers crossed for a healthy and happy pregnancy


----------



## Efi78

How is everyone on this thread?

Laquinn - your donor egg cycle must be approaching

Aley - how is pregnancy going?

AFM - 5DPO and will start testing in a few days.


----------



## Laquinn

Efi - I'm good thanks - 5th day of estrogen so not long now 'til transfer!  

Good luck for this month  

Aley - Hope you are blooming


----------



## miamiamo

Laquinn - all the best with yr transfer. I keep finger and toes super tight


----------



## Efi78

Laquinn

All the best! Fingers crossed for you!

How was the whole DEIVF experience? I wonder how different it is to OE besidesnot having to stimulate. How do you choose donor? Sorry...too many questions. I am just curious and you never know. I may one day make the decision to move to DE.

miaomiao - how are you getting on?


----------



## Aley

Hey girls!

Good luck with your transfer Laquinn! I hope all goes well. Fingers crossed for a positive.

Efi, I will be thinking if you. I hope 2ww is not too hard on you.

I’ve been okish, some spotting that doesn’t go away and obviously I am concerned. I hope little squidge is still there and happy.


----------



## Laquinn

miamiamo - Thanks!  

Efi - I'll let you know you when it happens! So far it's been very smooth - didn't feel great on the bcp but starting to feel quite good on the estrogen. It's all about building up a good lining at the moment and syncing up with the donor. At our clinic you can asked to be matched in terms of physical appearance, blood type, education level and interests. At clinics in the states and in Russia you can see pictures and even Skype with your donor. 

Aley - Thanks! Seems like a lot of people spot in pregnancy but it's not always something to worry about. Enjoy.


----------



## Efi78

Hey girls how are you?

Laquinn - have you had your transfer?

Aley - how was the 7 weeks scan?

AFM - CD9 today. Expecring to ovulate day 12 or 13. If it doesn’t work by January, I am going to transfer the remaining frozen blasto we have. Sigh...


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Efi. Yes, transferred two grade 1 blasts yesterday! Fingers crossed it works... 🤞🏻

Hope you catch a good ‘un this month 😘 Where is your embie?

How are you doing Aley?


----------



## Efi78

Laquinn congratulations! All
The best! So i guess OTD should be in 10 days?

I have a 3BB blasto left since i did the 1st IVF at the Lister Jan 2017. Almost two years old. I am not very hoepful it will work but i guess i have to use it at some point.

Cycle day 10 today. Expecting ovulation around day 12-14. During the last three months inhave ovulated on day 12. I wish this extends a little bit to allow for a thicker endometrium to build. 

Looking forward to hearing your news


----------



## Laquinn

Thanks Efi! OTD is a week today but I'll probably pee on a stick on Tuesday...

That's good you've got a blasto as back up... Are you having scans for your natural cycles?


----------



## Efi78

Hi Laquinn

No I am not although I may need to have one to check all good with endometrium. I have had thin lining issues in the past. On its own it goes to just below 7mm. With baby aspirin, Vit E it goes to 8.5-9mm. At least that was the case in my last FET. I do have light periods though which is a bit worrying. I have a medium flow on first day and then just light. It is bright red and I have no clots. It can’t be scarring as it does respond to estrogen. I guess it may be dropping estrogen due to aging? I am not sure. I was reading today that apparently Viagra worls wonders. I was that close to go to Boots and buy some. I have been trying castor oil packs for the last two months as well. Oh...and yesterday I bought a kama sutra book to add some spice. There are some positions there...come on...you have to be superman to do it.

I am cycle day 11 and didn’t get smiley  face today. Glad about this as during the previpus three months I ovulated on day12 and i would be pleased  if my endometrium had 1-2 more days to build.


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## Laquinn

Have you tried red raspberry leaf tea and pomegranite juice for your lining? I think I have been in perimenopause for a while; lighter, shorter periods, moodiness, night sweats, trouble sleeping. I was thinking about investigating http://www.mariongluckclinic.com/ about hrt at some point. FEs seems to not take hormones too serously when ttc but quite a few women on hrt seem to have oops babies... Like the worlds oldest natural mother at 59!

Have fun with the kama sutra!


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## Efi78

I agree with you. I decided to monitor my hormones with an endocrinologist. Latest hormonal profile looks good but i will keep monitoring. There is no harm and why not use hrt in the future to improve quality of life

Rasberry leaf tea: yep. I drink every day and i really don’t like it. I also drink pomegranate juice but forgot to buy this month. I am a bit disappointed to be honest with TTC. IVF, monitoring cycles etc. does it really make a difference making all these changes? I have seen people who have really unhealthy lifestyle conceiving and delivering. 

Anyway...kama sutra. I am trying to convince  hubby to do “the table” but it doesn’t fly. Then there is another one I am supposed to hold his legs in the air while i  am sitting on him. Hmmm...i think i will pass on this one as well...


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## Laquinn

Yeah - I'm definitely going to think about hrt!

I know exactly how you feel with the ttc fatigue - that's what made me decide on DE - I was just really fed up with it all. But you never know what's going to pop out your ovaries and if you've decided you can accept not having children then maybe letting go a bit and being less on it might be the way to go... It's so hard to get a balance but if you can get into a place that works for you... Have you read Inconcievable and check out the Fertile Heart website? https://www.fertileheart.com/

Kama sutra sounds like hard work... At the moment cake sounds sexy to me!


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## miamiamo

> I have seen people who have really unhealthy lifestyle conceiving and delivering.


me too, even conceiving during 1st month


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## Efi78

Cycle day 16 and still flashing smile? What the hell. This has never happened to me before. 

The latest I have ever tested positive is day 18. i fell pregnant on that cycle and then miscarried. As if there ws any chance it would stick. I am so disappointed and worries that I have started having unovulatpry cycles. No idea if i ovulated, when I ovulated and when period should come. I never temped because ovulation signs were always so obvious. OPK, cervical mucus, brest pain on the sides. First time ever I don’t have a clue. 

Anyway. Continuing having intercourse every other day. So disappointed. I may haven’t ovulated this month.


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## Laquinn

Hi Efi - What about having a scan to see if you've ovulated or not?


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## Efi78

Hi Laquinn - i can’t be bothered tbh. I have an exam in one week so I’d rather focus on that. If I haven’t ovulated there is nothing I can do about it. Breasts hurt on the sides but less than previous months. 

Just fed up with TTC tbh. I am not even sure I want a child anymore. This is too hard honestly. At least in the past when hubby’s number were good because of clomid I conceived within three months. Now nothing. Fed up. It’s all down to luck

How are things on your side? Have you tested?


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## Laquinn

That's good you've got your exam to focus on; maybe a distraction like that will bring your mojo back...

Tested this morning and got a bfp so fingers crossed for blood tests tomorrow.


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## Efi78

Congratulations Laquinn!!!! All the best and wishing you a happy and healthy pregnancy! You must be over the moon


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## Laquinn

Thanks Efi - Delighted and trying not to worry too much!


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## Efi78

It’s normal and humanly to worry. But everything is going to go well. I’m sure. I have a gut feeling


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## Laquinn

Thanks Efi


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## Aley

Hello girls!

Sorry for being so absent, had very busy days at work and just couldn't find the time.

Congratulations Laquinn, that's wonderful news. Your wish of being pregnant this Christmas has come true. Enjoy your pregnancy xx

Efi, I understand the tiredness that comes with ttc, I think at some point we've all had it. The whole journey is stressful, time consuming and comes with a lot of heartache. I hope though that the lucky fairy will strike you soon and you'll come here to deliver the good news. 
Kamasutra sounds like something so far, far away...I haven't had anything since getting pregnant. Mainly because I am stressed I'll do something and harm the baby...which is stupid I know! And then my sex drive has died...or is deep buried in an unknown place 

I am all good otherwise, finally in the second trimester and feeling good. I was so lucky in having no problems so far...well, apart from a spotting/bleeding from week 9 to 10, probably due to my cervix. Surely, I am still anxious and hoping to keep this little one safe for the next months.


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## Efi78

Aley

So happy to hear from you . I am glad everything is going smoothly. After the first trimester chances of complications re very low so don’t worry. 

All the best with your pregnancy and keep us posted


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## Laquinn

Thanks Aley! xx A lot of hurdles to clear but just trying to stay in the moment. Congrats on graduating to the second trimester!   I'm doing mindfulness to try and stay calm... Two more whole weeks to the six week scan... 

How are you getting on Efi - did you get a solid smiley?


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## Efi78

Hi Laquinn

I didn’t, but I got sore breasts on the sides which for me is a definite indication for ovulation on CD 14-15. We had intercourse every other day. When we get a peak we usially habe every day but we habe missed that now. Let’s hope there is enough sperm in there. 

What ever will be will be....


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## Laquinn

Hi Efi - Sounds like you've got it covered!   Everything crossed this is the one


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## miamiamo

Efi78 - I keep my fingers and toes crossed


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## Aley

Hi girls, Efi, Laquinn! How are you doing?
I know this thread is not very active but I was hoping to hear some news.
I hope you both enjoyed the Christmas period or at least it wasn't too harsh on you.


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## Laquinn

Hey Aley - how are you?
I am 11 wks now. The six week scan revealed twins! But I am suffering from hyperemisis so feel absolutely terrible   Been to hospital twice so far and taking a ton of drugs...
How are you Efi?


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## Efi78

Hey girls!

Happy new year! 

Laquinn - glad to hear about your twin pregnancy. Hope you are being taken care properly at the hospital. Fingers crossed you feel better soon

Aley - how is it going for you?

AFM - still trying naturally. Latest hormonal tests show good level of hormones. This month my RE agreed to give me some estradiol amd we monitored the cycle. One good follicle, lining reached 10mm. We ll see. Next month i will probably try a clomid cycle. Sigh...whatever will be will be. Nothing more I can do


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## miamiamo

Laquinn - amazing news! Congrats and wish you a healthy pregnancy


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## Efi78

Laquinn how are you? I read one of your messages on another thread and thought I should drop an email to say hello .
How is pregnancy going? Are you happy with the decision to do DE? How different is it to previous pregnancies?

Aley, miaomaio any news?


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## Laquinn

Hi Efi - I am big and tired! The twins (boy/girl) are doing great but I am finding the pregnancy hard    Only eight weeks 'til they arrive  
DE was the only option for me apart from adoption. I tried for two years after our late loss and had a miscarraige - I couldn't put myself or my husband through another miscarraige or late loss. It was hard to accept DE at first but as the pregnancy has progressed it's less of an issue. It feels the same as my OE pregnancy and as the babies grow and move around I feel more bonded to them. I feel like their mother. Obviously we would have preferred to have achieved an OE pregnancy but at the end of the day it's just a cell and we all share around 99% of the same dna anyway. Are you considering DE?

Hope all is well Aley


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## Efi78

Hi Laquinn. So nice to hear from you. I am considering DE. We have been trying naturally for one year now and no luck. I think our issue now is old eggs. As you said, I wouldn’t like to put myself and hubby through another loss and chances with IVF OE are low. We have already spent thousands and there is a point that it would be silly to continue and throwing money down the drain, causing even more heartache. We have one frozen left whoch I tried to transfer in march but clinic messed up with lining. I will try to transfer again this summer but I don’t have high hopes. Other than this good old intercourse and stop using ovulation kits etc.


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## Laquinn

It's such a tough tough journey. I've only done one round of IVF and I found that hard going - I had to do immunes as well though. DE is a gift if you can accept it. I would recommend getting councilling first to make sure it's what you want. Everything crossed your final frostie works or you manage naturally...


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## miamiamo

Laquinn - jus wanted to wish you all luck in the world xx


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## Efi78

Laquinn - how is it going? You must have given birth by now. I would love to hear your news. 

Aley - what about you? You must have also had your baby 


AFM - still nothing. I continue trying naturally but since July 2018 not a sniff of positive test. I have tried a clomid cycle where I responded well but again nothing happened. I have tried to transfer a 3BB frozen embryo I have with the Lister but due to many different reasons I have cancelled. My plan now is to stop trying but not preventing. No ovulation kits etc and just transfer the frozen embryo sometime in the future. I have tried three times this year though and I am afraid that I am going to lose my patience with the clinic. Plus I am not sure I trust them anymore. 

I would love to hear your baby news. Let me know how you are getting on


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## Laquinn

Hey Efi - I am mum to 11 week old boy/girl twins!!!   Sleep deprived and anxious but totally in love with these gorgeous wee people!!!  

Sorry to hear you've been struggling with your clinic - hope your laissez-faire approach strikes gold!


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## Aley

Hey Efi, so nice to hear from you. I had my little boy in May and just living the life in maternity leave at the moment. He’s a cutie and I am so lucky to be his mum. 

I am sorry to hear you didn’t have the great time with the clinic. Will you ever consider going for a fresh cycle or is this completely out of the books? I keep my fingers crossed for you and keep you in my prayers. 

Laquinn, congratulations for your twins, boy and girl too...you hit the jackpot there. Mine is a little bit older and he started sleeping a bit more now so there is hope. All the best!


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## Efi78

So nice to hear from you both

Laquinn - how was you experience with DE and how does it feel now that you have your babies? 

Aley - congratulations and all the best. Keep in touch with baby updates


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## Laquinn

Hey Efi. Obviously I would have preffered to use OE but I understand other DE mums when they say they can't imagine loving any other babies as much - these are my children that I was destined to have. I feel so lucky to be their mum. As Robert Winston says DE mums are the biological mother and DE children tend not to want to seek out the donor because of that biological role. At the end of the day it's a donation like any other - it's still your body and love that create. I believe epigenetics does play a big part as they both look like me - my wee girl looks really like I did as a baby. It's the best decision I've ever made - love these wee people so much and can't believe I get to play a part in their lives.


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## Efi78

Laquinn

Such beautiful words and so nice to hear from you. 

I am in two minds. A part of me has given up and decided to live childless. Then this morning had a talk with my husband and he is also deeply affected by this. We are both sad that we didn’t manage to have family while everyone else around just have families and move on with their lives. We love children so much and always dreamt of having two children. The fact that it hasn’t happened for us has hurt us badly. We will move on but there will always be a deep scar. No matter what. 

The other day as I was walking I saw a beautiful lady around 45 with one year old twins. It crossed my mind that they may be from donor eggs (which of course may not be the case) and thought “how lucky she is”. And placed myself in her shoes and thought “imagine having two of those”. What a joy. And what matters more? Having OE baby or raising kids with my husband? 

Then we had this discussion in the morning. He was so sad. And then it dawned on me that maybe I should try donor eggs. We have been trying for over a year and not a sniff of positive test. 

I have some questions which I hoped you could help me with. Please do not answer if it feels intrusive or too personal. I don’t mean to offend. 

- one of my worries about donor eggs is the hereditary diseases. In my family we have no disease (apart from hypothyroidism). No cancer, no mental issues everyone dies after 90 and my great grandmother died at 104. Same on my husbands side. So my question is, according to your experience how do they screen donors in clinics? How do I know that the donor has no mental issues etc and what is your experience with your clinic? How do I protect the child If I don’t know anything about its DNA?

- what is your opinion about telling the children? I don’t think I will be able not to. It will be devastating finding out later in their lives. I am worried about the impact it will have on them. 

Apologies  for the questions and please no worries if you don’t want to answer


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## Laquinn

Hey Efi - Sorry for the delayed reply - on a hectic feeding schedule!

To answer your questions:

We went to Zlin for our treatment and they said if there were any health issues we would be able to get access to the donor via the clinic but they seem to thoroughly screen the donors. The twins were thoroughly tested for thyroid and heart issues after birth amoungst a thousand other things and seem to be very healthy.

We plan to tell the twins how they were concieved; the donor conception network has wee books to help explain when they are a bit older. DCN seem to offer good support, resources and counselling. I know there are plenty of people who choose not to tell but we think it is best for us to tell. I don't tell eveyone else because it's not relevant but I told a friend who was struggling to have children because I thought it would help her. It's up to the twins if they want to tell as they get older - it's their story. 

Hope this helps


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## miamiamo

A friend of mine adopted two boys, who are now 18 and 16. She has already told the oldest that he has been adopted, as she knew his mother and how difficult situation she was in. Since the beginning she wanted to be sincere with her children, and she told that she wanted the boys know the truth from her but not from the Internet or somebody else.


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