# Over 45 With Own Eggs? - Part 2



## Maggiephatcat

Welcome to Over 45 With Own Eggs? - Part 2   


Love and   to you all   and happy chatting   




Maggie xxx


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## Syd72

Thanks Maggie x 

Blondie, thanks for the tip, they've said they'll do the implantation cuts.  I was assuming it was the same as the scratch but from browsing various threads I've realised it's not at all.  It's deeper cuts and lasts longer.  Either way I'm glad it'll be done under GA this time, I found the scratch pretty uncomfortable!

Seaside.  Yes, I'll definitely discuss own eggs with Serum but I honestly can't see it working.  I know it has for some people at 44, and one lady on another forum I'm on had a natural pregnancy at 47 and has a healthy baby but I'll be nearer 46 than 45 by the time I cycle and I just don't know that it's worth trying.  Will definitely ask though, I gather Penny is keen to have people try with OE if she thinks it's a possibility.  I just think if I'm lucky enough to get pregnant I'll have a much more relaxed pregnancy knowing there are far fewer risks with much younger eggs but maybe I'm just taking the easy way out.  Plus, of course, OH hasn't agreed to it yet.

LuckyE, so sorry about having to go back to court again   Great news about going to Athens next week though!  Really looking forward to hearing how that goes.

Hope everyone else is ok

EDIT: I just want to add to what I wrote here as I think I've come across as very negative about own eggs over 45 which, of course, is the whole premise of this thread.  Firstly, apologies, I didn't mean to sound that way.  Secondly, I was specifically referring to my eggs.  I know there are people here that had successful pregnancies at 42/43/44 and if I had managed that I would definitely still be wanting to cycle with own eggs.  However, I've been trying for two years, since shortly after turning 43, and all I've had are miscarriages/chemical pregnancies/failed cycles.  I think I have to accept that my eggs, although fairly plentiful, aren't any good.  However, I will ask for all the additional testing I can get at Serum including killer cells etc etc just in case it's not the eggs that are the problem but something else and will hopefully be able to continue trying naturally before I go. x


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## LuckyE

Syd72 - you're not negative at all. I just think this thing wears you down and you also have to be realistic. I've just been looking at HFEA website and they have 0% live births at 44 at the clinics I'm going to.  It's horrible looking at that 0%. I know what you mean about DE. Good choice to get your immunes done so you know it's not you. 

Yes, it should be great news but OH is still resistant. If I had open tubes I think I'd be just doing it naturally TBH. Re: court.  I know. It's such a shadow over us. So looking forward to the holiday. But I've still got to get him to do the sample.. he's stressing already.


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## Beside_the_seaside

*LuckyE* - which clinic are you trying? I'd still be hopeful about treatment at 44 if I were you. I couldn't rate trying naturally as a strategy anyway. I conceived my DD naturally, but was stupid to think we'd do it again at 44+. We didn't find out DP had (developed?) a problem with antisperm antibodies until we _eventually _went for IVF by which time my eggs were shocking. It annoys me to hear it said that if IVF has, on average statistics, only a low percentage success rate at a certain age (5%, 1%, whatever ...) so there's just as much chance trying naturally. Well no actually, because for a whole variety of reasons, possibly unknown reasons (e.g. blocked tubes, antibodies, etc) a person's _individual _chances of TTC naturally might be zero. Like ours were. 

*Syd *- Hopefully Serum will encourage you to give OE another try. Wasn't that fibroid you had causing problems for a long while? So that should explain you not having conceived prior to it being removed. Then did you get hidden C diagnosed? Don't they think that can be the cause of implantation failure/chemical pg/miscarriage? As *LuckyE *says, once you've had your immunes checked too, you should be good to go!

I was thinking about your comment of having a more relaxed pregnancy with young donor eggs. I genuinely don't think I understand age-related risks very well, I don't know whether I minimise them or overplay them in my head. 
As regards pregnancy; are the risks that might materialise (although far from guaranteed) if a person's older, things like pre-eclampsia, gestational diabetes, perhaps? But these would be equally applicable to OE or DE wouldn't they?
As regards the risk of chromosome defects in older eggs, I don't understand it well at all. Of course I'm aware of the risk of chemical pg/early miscarriage due to a non-viable aneuploidy. Plus the risk of trisomies T21/T13/T18 that would show on NIPT test or CVS/Amnio. But are there age-related defects that _*wouldn't*_ couldn't be detected by an amnio (or a 18-20 week scan)? I've no idea. Is there not a point reasonably early on in pregnancy where you can begin to relax about these things?


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## Blondie71

No Syd scratch is very different these are actual "pockets" that they create with a rich blood supply for implantation I like to think their success with so many women is enhanced due to these outside the box procedures 😆

Beside the seaside you could benefit from listening to binaural beats about seeing the positive and it being yours 😉


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## jools70

Hi ladies,  this is going to be a long post i will try to cut details as much as I can.

My partner and I fell preg when i was 18 we decided to terminate, we split at 21, in that time we both met other people didn't work out he had a child, got back together 30, fell preg a year after, he said it was not the right time, stupidly i regretably went along and terminated the pregnancy, we bought a home and wanted a family now, nothing happened, 5 year later nothing, fertility clinic said nothing wrong with either of us, but, had fertility treatment, own eggs.  Preg with twins first time, lost first at 8 weeks, second told the baby had downs and possibly pataus.  Decided to terminate, at 21 weeks had to go through everything child birth etc, very distressing.
Two years later moved home fell preg naturally, lost baby at 9 weeks.
I'm 46 now, I always saw myself having children.  My stepdaughter is amazing but not mine, I long to feel that unconditional love I hear so much about.
We don't have the money for private treatment.  
My life is a mess as I can't cope with my losses.
Spoke to a councillor but very unhelpful.
Has anyone gone through anything similar?
Xx


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## LuckyE

Hey Jools70, really sorry for your pain.  

Is it definite that you are not going to pay for any more fertility treatment down the line? But in any case, you seem to fall pregnant without any problems that would need IVF so there could still be some hope. Someone on here mentioned a woman falling pregnant at 47 naturally. Are you still trying naturally? I would definitely try to come to terms with the losses through counselling. I think good counsellors are hard to find and you have to go through a few to find the right one who gets you.  xx


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## Beside_the_seaside

*Jools70* - I couldn't read and say nothing. I'm so sorry for your losses. Every pregnancy loss is incredibly distressing in it's own way, but I imagine your loss at 21 weeks of a much wanted, IVF pregnancy must have been particularly agonising. I had a similar second trimester loss, albeit not quite so late as yours, but I had to deliver my baby too, worst day of my life.

Did you ever speak to the ARC (Antenatal Results and Choices)? If not, they have a confidential helpline for anyone considering their options after a prenatal diagnosis, or anytime afterwards. Plus there's also a secure, anonymous online forum for anyone who has lost a baby following a prenatal diagnosis (you apply for permission to join). Perhaps it would still help? Details are here: *http://www.arc-uk.org/for-parents/arc-forum*

Perhaps it would also help to try again with counselling to discuss your feelings of grief for all of your pregnancy losses generally? Maybe someone with specific experience of counselling infertility and/or bereavement would be best. Also, have you spoken to your GP? Perhaps they could even help with a referral for depression and/or CBT?

The other issue, quite separate I think, is whether you are still trying to conceive? Perhaps there are treatment options which are not as expensive as you might think? For example, a private IUI might help and is massively cheaper than IVF - about £600+ I think. Alternatively, an unmedicated, natural cycle IVF, would tend to be lots cheaper than conventional IVF (sometimes around half the price) and often clinics are more willing to try these types of cycles with older ladies. I don't know who has piles of money lying around waiting for IVF (we certainly didn't have) but maybe there are financing options (loan/credit card/whatever) that might put a last try within your reach? Even if this is still a definite no go, nothing wrong with trying naturally, as *LuckyE *says. Perhaps you could get some basic blood tests (e.g. FSH, E2) and help/advice (even Clomid) from your GP?

I doubt it helps, but just to let you know that I sympathise deeply with your pain. I hate the position I find myself in myself: I'm on the cusp of having to try to move on and I've no idea how. I often feel I'm going crazy.  Take care x

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## Syd72

Blondie71, I've been googling binaural beats since reading your message, interesting.  Have you tried it?

Jools70 welcome and sorry for what you've been through.  No advice I'm afraid but hopefully you're still trying.  It's me that mentioned a woman falling pregnant naturally at 47.  She's on another forum I use, from what I remember she got married and then fell pregnant pretty quickly.  Had no issues during pregnancy and now has a perfectly healthy little boy.

Seaside yes, you're right.  I do think the fibroid may have caused problems and I have had hidden c diagnosed.  I'm probably guilty of overplaying age related risks.  

LuckyE, when are you off to Athens?


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## Blondie71

Syd I know two people having really good success with the binaural, one for weight loss and the other is doing it to return her youth and it's so wierd her allover grey hair is growing back totally black at the roots again 😂😂 so bizarre, binaural beats are the original 432hz of music before the tempo was upped to a faster 440hz (rock N roll etc) and drove us all manic and out of sync 😉 I must do it for my boys as remarkable for brain recovery apparently!!


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## LuckyE

In Athens had a aquascan seems ok. Saw 3 follies so had a shot of altermon and Merional looking for EC Saturday. They asked OH to do sample right away he almost had heart attack then we worried about the sample being too old and too alcohol ridden so we were sent away to have sex! Fresh sample to be given  on Friday.  All the doctors were so young in the room I asked if they were students! But worries that my eggs are old and his sperm is bad... haven't been doing low carb for long enough or taking any melatonin ☹


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## Syd72

For those ladies interested in stem cell treatment I've just seen there's a thread on the go:
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=365921.0

LuckyE, that made me laugh  I was worried when my OH came over to do his sample at Oxford just before Christmas, I know it would be alcohol ridden to an extent and at that stage he hadn't seen me for over a month plus with his low sex drive I doubt very much he had any "alone time" that month. Maybe that's why it didn't work...  That's amazing about ec on Saturday, I, for some reason, thought you were just having a consultation this time. Keep us posted!

Thanks Blondie, I'm going to try and download something.


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## Blondie71

So will you be having a fresh transfer in a week then Lucky?? ☺

Syd youtube has loads i'm sure you'll find one for fertility and positive energy x


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## ricks3

Keeping everything crossed for you LuckyE!! xx


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## LuckyE

Syd - I'm following that thread! 
I was just coming for aquascan and sperm analysis but as I hadn't ovulated and we're there for a week ( OH wanted to make a holiday of it) I thought might as well.

Blondie - penny wants fresh transfer - if there's anything - only have 3.5 follies. I asked to freeze and do transfer next month but she said better not to. 

Thanks guys - another scan tomorrow and they're hoping trigger tomorrow night. Will let you know if I get anything to transfer


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## Blue dolphin

Hello folks.

Sorry to hear about your pain Jools. Will PM you. 

Just wondered which clinics you were all with for Own Eggs for over 45?

Looking for new clinic.


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## cuevadelrosa

Hiya, I'm trawling through this post (and the previous section of it) and finding a wealth of information, so thank you all.  I thought I'd introduce myself.  I'm 44 on Sunday, and really don't want to go to donor egg just yet.  We've been trying naturally until now, but I've had a number of recurrent miscarriages due to an array of thrombo and immune issues.  Looking for a miracle clinic I guess, but just can't make my mind up at the mo.  We live in Spain, but every clinic we've visited here automically shoves the stats in our faces and pushes for DE.  I'm not dismissing it, but I want a chance to try with my own eggs first - we've had a bit of a raw deal til now, so we deserve a break.  Researching lots today and looking towards Greece, Czech Rep, or anywhere that will work with OE and immune/complex issues at my age.  UK may be a bit price prohbitive for us    but so far  I have about 20 European clinics to investigate further  

Anyway, nice to meet you all and sending lots of BD in to this post.


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## LuckyE

Nothing to transfer - gutted. Penny was sweet - she did suggest donor eggs - or try again next month but just natural this time no drugs. Never had such poor quality eggs so wondering if my time is up ...


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## Syd72

I'm so sorry LuckyE. You weren't on any medication were you? Maybe it was just a one off anovulatory cycle?


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## Blondie71

Aww Lucky 😢 sorry to hear that, it's a long shot but you have frosties there right? Is that an option this trip?


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## Beside_the_seaside

*LuckyE* - sorry you had nothing to transfer. May I ask what happened? Did you collect an egg (or eggs) that didn't fertilise? I know it's upsetting, but does it necessarily mean any more than the fact that everyone, particularly over 40, is bound to have _some _cycles where none of the eggs are viable?


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## LuckyE

@blondie- yeah I have Frosties it's just I was keen to give it a go with this new partner. I guess if this happens again we'll have to consider that option if they are viable 

@beside the sea - that's what penny said- at my age the chances of a bad cycle is higher. She suggested try again..basically there were eggs but the quality was poor. part of me wonders if the drugs didn't help at my age. I don't know we'll see what happens next month. - penny wants to do natural so I'm
Sure she thinks that didn't help as well. she didn't charge me much for the cycle which was great as it makes me want to try again cost wise. She says it's a numbers game at my age. But I am realistic ...

after OH being so cynical he is under Penys spell - he doesn't feel she's out for money. He was like "let's see what penny says". We discussed stem cells but she said it was a trial and she doesn't know the outcome. She didn't push anything. 

It's funny when oh told me there was no eggs I thought he was joking. I couldn't believe it. I always thought the problem would be genetic. Maybe that's why my cycles are longer now before ovulation? Cos eggs are taking longer to develop?


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## LuckyE

@bluedolphin and @cueva - there are a few clinics that accept older ladies.i know people that have been everywhere over the years so hard to reccomend. I haven't found a uk clinic to reccomend though. Please let us know what clinics you choose. And welcome to the thread !


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## Blondie71

CRGW have the best reputation i've seen for over 40's in UK for cost and outcome, of course there is the lister but oh the price.... 😥


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## Syd72

LuckyE that's great to see your OH is now all for Serum and Penny 

Welcome cuevadelrosa.  I don't really have any advice for you I'm afraid, my partner and I are about to go to Serum in Athens.

Bluedolphin, I had an unmedicated IUI at the Lister in London in April, I'm 45.  They seem happy to carry on treating me with own eggs.  I also has IVF with Oxford Fertility Unit in January, shortly before turning 45 and they would be happy to carry on treating me.

Update from me, oh and I had a long talk last night.  He still has a lot of reservations about DE but has said he'll go with whatever I want to do and support me fully.  We're going to go to Serum together in July and I've managed to get the antibiotics prescribed here so we're starting those this week.  Knowing I have his support has actually made me a bit more relaxed about the whole thing so unless Penny says not to, I think we'll continue trying with OE for now given we seem to have reasonable fertility between us.  We can look at DE later if OE doesn't work.


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## Blue dolphin

Thank you LuckyE and Syd for info about clinics. 

Unfortunately the UK clinics prices are prohibitive. Looking abroad now. Considering Italian clinics but no info on the this site about them. 

Syd72-Newlife in Thessaloniki tries longer for OE options. You could keep them as an option. I think their prices are comparable to Serum's.

Fingers crossed for you all. 
x


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## LuckyE

Syd- I am so pleased you are giving OE another go. And your DH is supporting you. So happy. Penny has had an effect on OH - he has to do the sperm improvement protocol. He is anti antibiotics but accepted this without a whimper   I was the one with the doubts!
anyway I had a hysteroscoPY today so we'll see next month if any improvement in his   And my eggs.
I will be out in July too - not sure what's happening with OH Sperm though 

Blue dolphin - I have never heard Anyone doing I've in Italy. why are you interested? Do you have family there? 
Good luck everyone else really hoping for someone to strike gold.


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## cuevadelrosa

LuckyE - I am so sorry about your news.   Have you decided what you'll do next yet?

Thank you all for your welcome, and sorry for the delay in responding.  I've been reading 103 pages of the last thread   - my what a wealth of information there was amongst those pages!!  I've made notes    Your posts gave me all the help I need for the moment, so thank you all.  

I think I'm leaning towards Serum, although Czech and Cyprus are close behind.  But I think Serum may be useful to me as I've had so many problems holding on to pregnancies (12 lost to date, of varying length).  My autoimmune issues and thrombo issues are long and boring.  It sounds like Penny thinks outside the box, which I'm all in favour of.  I'm slightly concerned that anywhere else will pull me along when there's no chance of me holding on to it anyways even if IVF is successful.  

We were going to book an appt asap but DH's passport has run out.    It'll take 4-6 weeks to get a new one living overseas.  To say I was unimpressed with him is an understatement.  (   )  I'm trying to be pragmatic now and trust that it is all happening perfectly.  

Bluedolphin, Italy is also on my list to research - it would be a darn site easier to get there from Spain than to Athens!!

All the best, xx


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## Blue dolphin

LuckyE - no fell out of love with Greece. They kept pushing for DE but I am still ovulating and getting periods. 
- fingers crossed for your hystoroscopy. I had one at the Mitera. They were lovely.

Italy because - the clinics seem to be open to OE, that was all.

With regards to sperm - my OH's sperm improved by ejaculating [sorry TMI] for several days before sample was taken [without telling clinic]. It gets rid of old sperm.

Also he had 400iu Vit E and 1000iu Vit C + fertilisan vits. His sample improved alot enough to freeze.

x


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## miamiamo

@Blue dolphin - I would advise to consider ivf clinics in Spain. The same region, but Spanish IVF clinics are almost the most popular destination for IVF treatment.


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## cuevadelrosa

In my experience, Spanish clinics will push for donor egg.  DE are so easy to get here they really don't seem to understand why you wouldn't go for them.  18 months ago (aged 42) I visited major 5 clinics, all of whom said go for DE without even taking any tests - they all just literally looked at my age.  It put me off, hence me going overseas.  Also, prices aren't that far off UK here in Spain for IVF now.


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## Syd72

Thanks Bluedolphin, I'll see how I get on with my consult at Serum.

LuckyE - are you on the antibiotics too?  OH and I started them two days ago so we took the one off one then (not actually one off as we have to do that twice more) and started on the doxy today.  Fortunately neither of us has had any adverse effects so far.  Did Penny advise specific vitamins for sperm improvement?  I've kind of made up my own cocktail.  OH is protesting at taking antib's plus about 6 vitamin tablets per day but there you go   We're now going out earlier than originally thought, so my hysto is on 12 July.  

Hope everyone is ok.


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## Blue dolphin

Cuevadelrosa - with regards to MCs Braverman has a good reputation in these. He does Skype consults. Penny and Serum work with him. He is always good for info. 

AFM - Looking into ISIS in Cyprus as well.

I contacted Assista Centro in Naples. The gynae sounded good but I think it is a family operation. His daughter the embryologist did not pass on my info to the clinic and even though I sent them my records and chased it up they left me waiting months during which time I did not hear from them. When I chased it up they promised to get back to me but never did. So I would not recommend them. 

Currently looking at clinics in Bologna.

Miamiamo what was Invicta like?

All the best to everyone.


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## LuckyE

@bluedolphin - I wouldn't reccommend them either! Really sounds unprofessional. 

Syd72 - At least your OH is taking them! OH was all up for the antibiotics after the meeting with Penny. But as soon as we came home he was adamant not to take the vitamins - arguing he gets the daily dose of Vit E in his bread and porridge and drank apple juice every day. Yesterday he said, there's no proof what she's saying about the antibiotics being a cure for problems. So I said, then don't take the antibiotics and I'll use what I have. This morning he said he's taking the antibiotics... He says there's nothing to lose.

I am on Prixina I usually am fine wiht it but am suffering badly - was sick the first day and now have to take it with a lot of food but I'm exhausted as they're very strong and feel nauseous now and then. 5 more days to go... I might be out there the same time as you and your OH! My OH probably wont' come as his sperm won't be improved by then so no point him giving a deposit.


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## Smithysmith72

Hi everyone, it's been ages since I left my last post but I have been reading all your posts in the background. AFM: I thought I'd give a quick update on where we are right now. We decided to contact Arleta clinic in Prague and I can't fault them one bit. All my email enquiries and questions have been answered within an hour or next day a most and the IVF coordinator is fantastic.
We travelled out for an overnight stay last Sunday and had a car arranged to collect us from Prague and drive us the two hour journey to the clinic in Kostelec nad Orlic. 
All I can say are good things about this clinic. Dr. Dolezal was great as were all the staff there, and after a thorough examination said 'its all looking great, let's do an IUI...today!' I was pretty shocked as we've had nothing but negativity till now! He said I had good cervical mucus and I had 4 visible follies with lead follie at 20.5. As my lining was only minimum at 6.7 when I had my IVF with care back in November, his only concern was the measurement of my lining now. All I can say is that the ubiquinol, royal jelly and my Chinese herbs combined with my acupuncture has worked! Lining was at 8.5 so DP did his bit (sample was good) and after both of us giving bloods and having a great laugh with the girls there, they injected me with ovitrelle and an hour or so later after the Dr. Performed the IUI, I had a short rest on me back and we were back into our car and on the two hour journey to Prague where we had a celebratory drink and headed to the airport for our flight home. 
We've discussed our short protocol with Dr Dolezal and he sent us off with all the drugs we needed (quite a few differences in treatment) and a letter to the airline which we used and boarded with them in our hand luggage with no issues. 
So I am now officially in my 2ww and OTD is 06 July! It's my first IUI other than turkey basting twice prior to
this and not knowing if I've actually got it right! and I'm actually feeling really relaxed about it for a change! Maybe it's because we have the IVF scheduled for September so no matter what we have that in place so the IUI is just a bonus! 
Whole package including the car to and from the city and the IUI was €3,860 which is about a third of the 9000 quid we paid here in the U.K.! If only we knew how straightforward it would all be we could have had three bloody goes by now! And saved years wasted but no matter. I love the clinic and can recommend them without a doubt. I feel I'm not ready to give up on my OE yet and actually feel very positive and excited again after seeing them at Arleta.  Let's see what 06 July brings! I will keep you posted girls and good luck to those on their next cycles. 

Lots of love to you all wherever you are in your journey, it's such a hard one no matter where we are xxx


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## LuckyE

@smithysmith - what a lovely post.  4 follies sounds really promising. Can I ask what chinese herbs did you use for your lining? I've tried accupuncture before with mixed results... Is yours in London by any chance? Wishing you the best of luck!!


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## Syd72

Smithysmith that's great that you've had such a positive experience, best of luck.

LuckyE what a pain, flippin' men! Really sorry you're feeling so rough, I have such a phobia of throwing up being sick once would stop me taking them! I'm obviously on different ones to you, doxy and azithromycin (so?). Definitely let me know if you're going to be out there at the same time, I'm arriving Sunday 9th, at the moment OH is coming with me but he's waiting to hear if he can see his daughter that Sunday. If he can he'll fly a day later.

Bluedolphin I've heard good things about Team Miracle which I think is in Cyprus.


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## Blue dolphin

Thank you ladies. 

LuckyE- had the same problem. Tears work....

Syd72 - will look into TM in Cyprus. 

Smithy- great news. Thank you for letting us know about the clinic.


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## Sunflowerseeds

Hi All, 

How are you all? 

Sorry for the radio silence. I've tried to keep up with your posts and sending you all virtual positivity but felt overwhelmed to write anything myself. I've not been in a good place. My OH was diagnosed with cancer. After what's felt like forever the doctors have advised is treatable and chemo has started. 

The thought of never having my own family was bad enough but the thought of losing my OH nearly destroyed me.  It's felt like a nightmare with emotions very up and down. 

At the moment we're on an OK level and started to think about our lives together again.  My OH has had his sperm frozen and tasked me to find a new clinic. Think it's giving him something for us to work towards. 

Would love to go to somewhere like Serum but restricted to clinics in the UK, mainly in Midlands, Yorkshire or NorthWest so it easier to get to. Only started exploring but thinking of medicated IUI or embryo banking and then FET. Not sure any clinics in this area have had fantastic results but now conceiving naturally is off the table feel like we've got no choice.

Suggestions are welcome.

Anyway hope you're all well.

Sending you all loads hugs.

Take care X


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## Syd72

Sunflowerseeds I'm so sorry, how awful.  I'm so glad to hear it's treatable and really hope he and you sail through the treatment.

I have no suggestions for clinics I'm afraid, I've only used Oxford and the Lister but I'm sure someone will be along with some helpful tips.

Take care of yourselves and do keep us posted on everything that's going on.

xx


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## LuckyE

sunflowerseeds. Glad to hear you and so glad your OH's cancer is treatable and there is a way forward. 

UK clinics - I'm sure someone will come along... I don't know any up North. Have you looked at the cycling threads and seen any?


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## Sunflowerseeds

Thanks Syd and Lucky for your well wishes and advice. 

I'll have a look at the threads. Last time they didn't really have that much for non-London or overseas clinics. 

OH has spoken with someone today about his frozen sperm. They've advised it's a good quality to give us options for conception but said it was near impossible/very slim chance for a woman of my age to conceive 😢.  Thinking of opting for medicated IUI for now then working our way to IVF again if it doesn't work. 

We stopped IVF before as I felt very traumatised about the whole experience. I just want to find a doctor who will at least try, without being greedy and/or pushing donor eggs. I know this may have to be a possibility but I feel it's just me who's got hope for my own eggs. 

Can anyone please share any good news of your life. Think some positivity is needed. 

Hugs to all. 

X


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## LuckyE

@sunflowerseeds, how much sperm is frozen? I know how you feel about your chances, sadly I'm in the same boat. I am focusing on the power of positive thinking and the law of attraction.


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## Syd72

It's not massively helpful but although I got a bfn from ivf in January I did get a chemical from an unmedicated iui in April at 45. I have a suspicion I ovulated early and that the egg may have already started to deteriorate by the time the iui was done so although it "tried" it didn't work. I'm positive I felt ovulation about 23 hrs before the iui was done.

Someone I know has just had her second baby through ivf at almost 46, she had her first 2-3 years ago.

And finally, the Lister haven't even mentioned donor eggs to me


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## Sunflowerseeds

Hi

Lucky - We got 19 straws but no-one wants to say what his SA results are, just it's good enough to have other fertility assistance procedures, IUI, IVF without ICIS, etc. We've been advised the SA would be done as part of the fertility assessment with a clinic rather than as part of the collection process. 

Syd - I was looking at Lister and other clinics in the London region as they seem to have produced results but not sure if the logistics would work as I would be undergoing treatment around the same time as OH would have his day clinic for chemo. Sounds crazy, I know but OH is pushing for us to push on with treatment. If treatment was in the North then doing the two together would be doable. Unless they had a satellite clinic to do the monitoring. Did Lister use a trigger before IUI? Was IUI done in your cycle. I seem to recall your ovulation is similar to mine, where I get the LH surge and ovulate the same day. I'm not sure if by having a medicated IUI they would control ovulate better to do ther trigger and IUI. I'm really not informed on this treatment. If anyone can help it be much appreciated.

Give you all positivity.

X


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## Blondie71

Oh sunflowerseeds what a scary thing to face but treatment options are excellent these days esp early detection so you're right to be positive and it'll keep your hubby focused too, hope you find a great clinic


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## Syd72

They don't have a satellite that I'm aware of unfortunately. Yes, they did trigger me. I've always assumed, as you say, that I ovulate on the day I get my positive opk although I have read that at our age it's likely we ovulate before the opk goes positive. They triggered me on day and 13 and I swear I felt ovulation about an hour later, I think I may have already posted all that so sorry if repeating myself. If I had it done again I would probably insist on two inseminations, one on day 13 and one on day 14, if I had enough sperm. We had 7 straws to start with, I think 3 were used for the ivf as it didn't defrost that well and they had to do icsi. One straw was used for the iui. OH will make another "deposit" in Greece the week after next.

I can understand your OH wanting something positive to focus on during treatment but can also see that makes everything a bit tricky logistically. I'm not really sure what to suggest other than finding a clinic and explaining the situation, they may allow you to have your scans and bloods locally and just travel down for egg collection and embryo transfer?  Or perhaps try a few rounds of embryo banking so that you're travelling down once per cycle until you're ready to do an fet?


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Thanks Blondie

OH is pushing for us to use previous clinic where we got the CP but I felt over cooked and didn't think the experience was good. He thinks we should have an initial conversation with that consultant as we didn't follow that up and if that's not successful then look for another consultant there. Not sure, think it may be best to cut our lost and just just to a new consultant. I know it would be easier as its local and it would be one less thing to think about. 

Syd - think you're right, think embryo banking with 2 or 3 EC may be the best option and then have FET later in the year once think settle down. 

Decisions decisions 

Take care X


----------



## Syd72

Hi ladies, hope everyone had a good weekend.

Just an interesting side note from me.  For about 15 years I've had 3-7 days pre-af spotting every single month - the only times I haven't had it have been when I'm pregnant or on progesterone after treatment.  AF is due Thursday and still no spotting, I did wonder if by some miracle I was pregnant again but BFN this morning.  It could just be that for the first time ever I'm only going to have 2 days spotting, or I'm going to have a weirdly cycle, which I doubt since I ovulated early this month.  But I'm actually wondering if the antibiotics for hidden c and ureaplasma have cleared up the spotting issue, apparently ureaplasma can cause spotting.  Or perhaps it's just stopped it happening this month?  Sorry, probably not that interesting to anyone else but I'm a little intrigued


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Syd, 

I'm not sure if this will be of help but I've had a few cycles where I've spotted for a few days mid cycle or before AF. I've normally put down to some kind of hormones imbalance. For example taking Vitex cleared it up or taking extra B6 without extra B12 caused spotting. I've also found I would have also had a change in the day I'd ovulated. 

Of course everyone is different do it could be part of the condition Serum are treating you for.

Hope you find a conclusion.

X


----------



## Smithysmith72

Hi ladies, thank you for all your replies.
Lucky- I get my herbs from my acupuncturists hubby, she is based in Longfield in Kent. To be honest have no idea what's in them all Chinese names and it's a bespoke blend just tailored to me. Costs about £20 per bottle which lasts a month. Also think the ubiquinol, pregnacare preconception and royal jelly combination may have helped. 

AFM I'm on 14dpo now and two days from OTD and I'm going crazy!! Literally stressed to the hilt about testing on Thursday but trying to chill out. It's impossible! 

Sunflowers- I'm so sorry to hear your news re OH, both my parents were diagnosed with Cancer, it's such a difficult time and hard to deal with but being there for him is all he needs and it does sound positive so I will be sending good thoughts and positivity, your a strong lady and you'll both get through this!! 

Sending baby dust and good positive vibes to all us ladies, will keep you posted re test day!! 
Lots of love to you all xxx


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Thanks Smithy, 

Fingers and toes crossed for a BFP. 

OH starts his next chemo session shortly. Hoping he will only have a few sessions but scan after next session will determine that.  Still exploring clinics but he's keen to crack on with fertility treatment asap. Think we'll go for a 3 cycle and FET if we can. Ideally would like treatment to cover each cycle for next few months. Hope this  is possible, not sure if it depends on my body recovery or if a clinic agrees. 

Sending hugs to all. Hoping for a BFP for us all.

X


----------



## LuckyE

@Smith, I've now found an acupuncturist that I like. She has a really good aura about her. Really positive which is what I need right now. We're working towards Sept/Oct cycle now. Really hope this is your time. Really do. 

@sunflower - glad your pressing on. Keep us updated with everything and let us know what clinic you decide.   for a positive outcome with the Chemo.

@Syd hope it is the anti biotics that have cured the spotting! Unluckily for me, I've been told my hidden C is Chronic so the anti biotics will only supress the infection. So I started this cycle and Peny was like take more anti biotics.  I had to put my foot down and argue that she said to take them near egg collection and not from day 1. I'm gonna bring up overuse of anti biotics if I cycle this month... as these are pretty strong...

My scan is tomorrow... Part of me wants a foliicle so I can go ahead but part of me is so busy with work I just don't think i have the time to fly over etc.


----------



## LuckyE

Guys so I had my scan and there were 8 follicles. Peny said there are 3 leading follicles of the same size and she wants to use 150 iu merional. I do'nt wnat to do any drugs as the last time I had 3 follies on day 14 (they were really slow that month) and we used drugs and the eggs were poor.

I am frightened of doing that again. I can't remember how much drugs we used last month but I've asked for the info. But I don't want to use drugs anymore. I'm arguing I want to do natural. And also, I don't want to stay out there for 10 days. 4 max. 

I'm suggesting next time we do clomid if i have a good AFC on day 2 or natural. If I do natural I will see if it's the drugs or the eggs.

what would you do?


----------



## Blue dolphin

LuckE - go with your gut feeling. Positive vibes to you  

Did Penny say which day to start the injections? What is your recommended protocol?


----------



## LuckyE

Thanks Blue - I feel anxious and am trying to relax as Ive done a natural before. I'm doing natural. It's expensive as you have to do about 3/4 scans over here so 3-400 quid but I'd rather be here than there. 

No injections for natural. 

If I did the supported I'd ahve to start now. Or tomorrow. I just didn't fancy it. So the protocol was 150 IU Merional and will have scans till Egg collection so it's meant to be a natural supported - aiming to get 3 eggs that were the biggest. 

I feel nervous that I'm only going for one egg with so many follies but I have a feeling that they could be empty ones from DHEA... so we'll see. I'm just praying for one egg and that fertilizes. 

I'm so stressed, which isn't good for IVF...


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Lucky, 

I agree with Blue, you need to follow your gut as you need to feel comfortable with your treatment.  Is Penny suggesting a modified natural ivf/IUI? I thought DHEA helped egg quality? Has Peny given you a choice of your treatment protocol? 

I had a modified natural ivf earlier this year, using Tamoxifen (tablets) every day and Gonal F (injections), every other day. I've also had a very high dose IVF. I prefer the less approach. We got the same number of embryos and good quality. 

You can be guided by clinicians but you know your body better than anyone. 

Hope it goes well whatever direction you decide on. 

Take care x


----------



## Syd72

Oh LuckyE, I feel for you, it's so hard.  I would agree with the others and say go with your gut.  I also have a gut feeling that, even though I had no negative reactions at all and responded well with IVF, that the drugs didn't do me any favours.  Compounded by getting positive test (albeit only briefly) after my unmedicated IUI as opposed to a BFN after IVF in which 10 eggs were collected.

Do it your way this time, hopefully all will go well but if it doesn't, you can try Penny's way next time?

I think we'll just miss each other in Athens which is a shame, I'm there Sunday to Wednesday.

Sunflower, I really hope it's not too many sessions for OH.  I've seen a few posts on here about people having back to back banking cycles so hopefully you'll find a clinic that's happy to do it provided, as you say, your recovery is ok.

Smithy, best of luck today!


----------



## Blondie71

Lucky always try something different as nothing to be gained from going over old ground and I believe we know our own bodies after researching our own issues often enough 😉 I also didn't listen to Penny at times and put forward my own opinions on what I felt needed to happen or indeed not so go with that! Good luck with it all x


----------



## Blue dolphin

Did anyone use cyclacur for OE IVF as part of protocol? 

x


----------



## LuckyE

No not me. But i did use it after my hysetroscopy and I got loads of follies at my next scan. I asked Peny and she said that the increased oestrogen does that so maybe it's part of oestrogen priming?  How are you taking it?


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi

Blue - sorry I can't help with advice on your suggested protocol. Why have they suggested this medication? 

Lucky - what is the protocol for clomid? Was Peny suggesting EC then FET? 

It would be useful to understand what the thinking was on this protocol. Am I right if thinking if could help with egg quality but thins the lining so FET would be needed? 

It would be interesting to know different thinking in clinics? 

Hope everyone is doing well x


----------



## Smithysmith72

Hi Ladies, 
Hope you are all doing well.

It's not good news I'm afraid, hence my not posting on Thursday. We had a BFN, contacted clinic and stopped the Duphaston, so last tablet Wednesday evening. AF turned up yesterday morning so a definite negative. Stupidly I was convinced this was our time but wasn't to be so we are back on plan for the IVF for October.

I have to say it's hit me like a ton of bricks. I just feel so sad, and cried a lot on Thursday, my DP was fantastic and supportive as always bless him. 

Hope everyone is ok.
Love to all xxx


----------



## Blondie71

So sorry smithy bfn's just hurt so much 😢😢 don't give up as you have a good plan in place and October will be here before you know it   be very good to yourself and lots of treats x


----------



## Syd72

So sorry Smithy. I know how you feel, I was sure it had worked in January and then it hit me like a tonne of bricks when I got my bfn.

We're sat at Serum waiting for our appointment, starting to feel nervous.


----------



## Blue dolphin

So sorry Smithy.  

Sunflower - not sure why they suggested cyclacur.  

x


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi 

Smithy - I'm so sorry. This journey can be so heartbreaking. Glad you're getting support from your partner. Please don't give up hope. Sending you hugs. 

Blue and Syd - hope all goes well with your journeys. 

Take care all x


----------



## Smithysmith72

Ah thank you so much for your support ladies it means a lot! Isn't it amazing how anyone who hasn't trodden this path really doesn't understand the pain and heartbreak we ladies go through every day!! 

Taking it day by day right now and trying to look forward to what we may have in the future rather than back at what hasn't gone our way. 

Blondie- your so right it does hurt like hell! But seeing stories like yours is inspiring and gives me hope! 

Syd- I know it's breathtaking when you get a kick in the guts like that, I was the same after our first round of IVF, it's so hard to comprehend that it's not your time. Hope you weren't too nervous and it all went ok today? I was thinking of you. 

Blue- Appreciate the hugs, thank you! I need em. 

Sunflower- I've been thinking about you, how are you doing and how is OH? this must be such a stressful time
for you, what a lovely lady you are to send me a message when your going through such a tough time all round. Really appreciate the message. Not giving up, not until my body does anyway, no chance. My DP is wonderful I really am so very lucky to have him. 

Soldiering on and staying focused and positive, there are worse things that could be happening and we all deserve the happiness and joy that a little bundle would bring. You are all in my thoughts ladies, sending love and hugs your way xxx


----------



## Blue dolphin

Sunflower - fingers crossed for you hun. Positive focus is the key you are right. Looking into positive hypnosis. Can't hurt. x


----------



## Syd72

Thanks Smithy.

Quick  update from me (apologies LuckyE, I've said a lot of this in the Serum cycle thread). My hysto this morning was fine, I was in a lot of pain when I came round and it took them a while to get me some pain relief, now I've watched the DVD I can see why, loads of implantation cuts! They kept me in recovery for a long time as my oxygen levels were so low. The hospital was great but there are certainly less niceities here than at home! Basically no issues for me other than possible slight blocking of the left tube but but Penny thinks that will now clear. I've got to take some stronger antibiotics for the next few days to clear up the last bits of inflammation. No sex allowed for the next 10 days so we can't try this month but she has basically sent us away to try naturally for 2-3 months but also with a load of drugs ready to cycle. She's said I'll need intralipids and steroids and has also given me baby aspirin and high dose folic acid. OHs sperm is perfect, including the DNA fragmentation test which is a huge relief and frankly amazing given his lifestyle!! He flew off to his family this morning and I'll join him tomorrow.

Hope everyone else is ok.


----------



## LuckyE

That is good news Syd72! Good luck TTC naturally!


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## Sunflowerseeds

Hi

Blue and Smithy - Thanks for your kind word. Much appreciated. It helps with positivity, especially when faced with OH going through chemo. This forum has massively helped in keeping me sane and thanks to all is needed. 

Syd - good luck with ttc naturally. Fingers crossed for you. 

Brief update from me: I've contact another consultant from the clinic where we got a CP to ask if he would treat an older couple. Unfortunately we've not heard anything. Need to chase tomorrow. If no luck then I'll start searching for another clinic. 

Sending positivity to you all X


----------



## Lilly08

Hi Jools70, 
I'm sorry for your losses all you've been through. 
I haven't been diagnosed with secondary infertility yet but I'm 47 and concerned about it. I will do some check-ups next week.
I'm considering IVF.. According to your experience...Do you recommend it? 
We have already a 10 years old child. My husband and I considered adoption as well. But it seems to take forever.
I think surrogacy could be a better option. We are also checking info about private clinics.. .maybe in another country. People say it is cheaper. 
In any case, I think we should not lose hope. There are many options nowadays.We should stay strong and keep on trying!



jools70 said:


> Hi ladies, this is going to be a long post i will try to cut details as much as I can.
> 
> My partner and I fell preg when i was 18 we decided to terminate, we split at 21, in that time we both met other people didn't work out he had a child, got back together 30, fell preg a year after, he said it was not the right time, stupidly i regretably went along and terminated the pregnancy, we bought a home and wanted a family now, nothing happened, 5 year later nothing, fertility clinic said nothing wrong with either of us, but, had fertility treatment, own eggs. Preg with twins first time, lost first at 8 weeks, second told the baby had downs and possibly pataus. Decided to terminate, at 21 weeks had to go through everything child birth etc, very distressing.
> Two years later moved home fell preg naturally, lost baby at 9 weeks.
> I'm 46 now, I always saw myself having children. My stepdaughter is amazing but not mine, I long to feel that unconditional love I hear so much about.
> We don't have the money for private treatment.
> My life is a mess as I can't cope with my losses.
> Spoke to a councillor but very unhelpful.
> Has anyone gone through anything similar?
> Xx


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi 

Lilly - you're right. You shouldn't give up on your dreams. I know a few ladies on here who gave gone overseas for treatment. Think Serum in Greece has had some good results and seem reasonable for prices. A lady called Altea (I think) conceive via IVF in her late 40s. Not sure if this was in Greece but I know it was overseas. Some clinics offer free Sykpe call, which is a good way to check them out. Have you looked on the international threads? 

Blondie - am I right thinking you conceived at 45 with your own eggs. Please can you advise of your protocol? Did it involve Clomid embryo banking? I'm exploring options for having multiple EC then having a FET and it be useful to learn others success stories.

Many thanks X


----------



## LuckyE

I'm out this month. My follicle was weird. It was all broken up. At first penny said there were two eggs but then she said it was a cyst. It was so ugly looking. A slim chance I might have ovulated early. But TBH with all the hot flushes I've been getting I think my hormones are just all over the place and I'm not creating enough estrogen anymore. My lining was thin didn't grow. 

So it looks like I'll be bowing out of OE unless I do the stem cell thing but I'll be watching and rooting for the rest of you.


----------



## Syd72

That's   , I'm sorry LuckyE.


----------



## Blondie71

Hi sunflowerseeds sorry so late had a devastating tragedy of my next door neighbours little boy being killed outright in front of  several of us whilst playing and it's just harrowing and knocks stuffing right out of you 😢 I actually did my treatment at 40 in 2012 BUT did cycle with a lady with username HMB who was 45 with own egg and she got pg with twins (sadly lost one but happily carried a singleton to term) and fairly sure we had same protocol of decapeptyl, menopur and puregon and also prednisolone and clexane post transfer hth


----------



## LuckyE

Blondie, so sorry to hear about your neighbours little boy.


----------



## Blondie71

Thanks Lucky ❤ very sorry things haven't gone to plan, alot to get your head round and hopefully you'll find your way forward, you have a good attitude and i'm sure you will xox


----------



## Blondie71

Sorry lucky, don't you still have frosties there from your banking cycles? Sorry if i'm mistaken and you don't


----------



## Syd72

God how awful Blondie.


----------



## Blondie71

Nothing worse syd 😢


----------



## LuckyE

Blondie - I do have frosties. 

The problem is I was trying with a new partner because we wanted a family together.  Anyway, Peny told me , from the blood test, I did ovulate, it looks like my progesterone was really high. It shouldn't be. She said it would've been a disastrous cycle and she's glad I didn't use any drugs as we saw what the eggs were like naturally. She thinks it was a cyst. But I don't know which egg ovulated?

Anyway, for the next cycle, which is my final cycle with OE I need to have  a blood test to see if we should cycle. Wish I had that for these other two!


----------



## Blondie71

Ah ok I see! So would that mean if this next cycle doesn't work  (hopefully it will  ) that you will move to DE and leave your frosties there or will you try with frosties 1st?


----------



## LuckyE

Blondie if September's cycle  doesn't work we will 

1) try stem cells if the trial has a positive outcome. 

2) If the trial has failed we will discuss my frosties and DE. In my heart, I've always wanted 2 kids, so does OH so I'm happy to do one of each. It's OH that is not too sure about the donor element. He'd rather adopt. But i'm not up for that yet. 

Interesting times ahead.


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi 

Blondie - I'm so sorry to hear about your neighbours' son. It's such an awful experience. Sending you big hugs.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. It is very much appreciated. 

Lucky - I'm sorry to hear your news. This is such a difficult journey. My thoughts are with you. Sending you hugs. 

I'm trying to find a clinic for my next cycle. I don't seem to be having any luck with getting good information and any engagement. They seem to want to take my money for a consultation but not confirm if they will treatment a woman at 45? 

More and more feeling like this could be my last cycle with my OE. Think after then it's DE, adoption, which is highly unlikely with OH illness or being childless. 

Not good I'm afraid.

Hope we all get good news soon. 

Take care X


----------



## Lilly08

Sunflowerseeds said:


> Hi
> 
> Lilly - you're right. You shouldn't give up on your dreams. I know a few ladies on here who gave gone overseas for treatment. Think Serum in Greece has had some good results and seem reasonable for prices. A lady called Altea (I think) conceive via IVF in her late 40s. Not sure if this was in Greece but I know it was overseas. Some clinics offer free Sykpe call, which is a good way to check them out. Have you looked on the international threads?
> 
> Blondie - am I right thinking you conceived at 45 with your own eggs. Please can you advise of your protocol? Did it involve Clomid embryo banking? I'm exploring options for having multiple EC then having a FET and it be useful to learn others success stories.
> 
> Many thanks X


Yes, I'm trying to read as much as possible. It seems a lot of women have gone overseas. There are all kind of experiences though, good and bad and scams. It is hard to choose. I'm in contact with a couple of clinics which were highly recommended by other members. We will see. So far so good.x


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Good luck Lilly with your search for a new clinic.

I would love to explore clinics overseas as feel they are producing results but restricted until at least October until OH finishes his initial chemo. 

The clinics I'm looking at don't seem to have much or any live births. Think closest is Create. The admin was awful when I cycled with them previously. Im now thinking do I suck up the frustration with their admin and cycle with them again. More and more when I engage with the UK clinics I start to feel what's the point. 

Why is this so hard?!!! With everything going on I'm really struggling to be optimistic. 

Sending hugs to you all X


----------



## Blondie71

Very interesting LuckyE and you do have options on the table which is reassuring and we're very lucky to be living in times where technology is advancing rapidly along with more open attitudes to alternative routes ☺

Very difficult sunflowerseeds as you're in a position where travelling isn't an option, have you thought about travelling yourself to somewhere like serum with a sample of his sperm? Penny will do a Skype consultation for free with you guys, maybe worth a shot?


----------



## Pernille

Hi All,

I’m thinking of trying natural cycle IVF, with OE and if not successful, with DE. 
Fully medicated IVF is not a good option for me, according to doctor’s opinion.

Does anyone else trying with natural cycles? Any insights, experiences, advice, things that I should know? Anything concerning natural cycles either OE or DE will be highly appreciated! As I’m getting close to 50’s, I feel a bit disheartened.

I fully understand that there are a lot of things going on in your lives at the moment and you might not have the time to answer, so in any case, thanks for reading.

Best wishes and good luck to all!
Pernille


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Thanks Blondie, 

My OH is having chemo every 3 weeks. At least 2 of these weeks OH is up and down with how he feels. I would prefer not to leave him, especially as he has experienced really bad migraines. Unfortunately my cycle is out of sync with his OK week. Think the only options for now is I'm only away for a maximum of 3 or 4 hours and that I can get home fairly quickly. OH completes his chemo in October so if needed we could consider treatment overseas after November. 

Clinic where I got my CP has decided to refer my case to their ethics committee due to OH illness and child welfare. Very frustrating as OH illness isn't an immediate threat and if I was a single woman I probably wouldn't have to go through this.  Don't think we will be able to cycle with them until October/November as it takes a few months for them to meet then it misses the start of a cycle. 

Have been trying to engage with Care without much luck. They are insisting we need to have a consultation before they can agree to treat me or not. It would also involve having all the tests again and potentially paying for everything for them to refused to treat us.

Still got Create and Nurture to explore. Ideally we would like to cycle in August. 

Pernille - I had a modified natural IVF and got a BFN. When I was doing the cycle I had 12 follicles growing then 4 continued with 3 eggs on EC. I wished I'd done a mild/regular IVF as think some follicles 'went to waste'. The embryos were of good quality though. Think the best we had. 

Cycled with Create. There admin was very unorganised, it was very frustrating. I'm not sure if all there clinics are the same. Clinical staff was lovely. 

Not many clinics keep records of stats of women over 44 so you may struggle to get information. Ask them for live births, many will give you the clinical pregnancy rate when you ask. Make sure you ask for clarification. 

OH is convinced it's a numbers game and just need to pick one. Guess it finding a clinic you feel comfortable with.

Good luck.

Hope everyone is ok.

Take care X


----------



## ricks3

Hi Sunflowerseeds - I was so sorry to read of your OH's illness - I do hope you are both doing OK and sending you lots of love xxx

I was intrigued by your post about the different types of IVF... can you please explain what modified natural IVF is and what mild regular IVF is? I'm not sure of the differences.

I'm waiting to start my next cycle of IVF when AF arrives - probably around 5th August - feeling pretty scared about the whole thing - last cycle was cancelled due to poor response but have a new protocol this time and have had 2 cycles out which the clinic say should help. Just trying to prepare myself for the worst again. 

Love to everyone.


----------



## Pernille

Hi Sunflowerseeds,

Thank you very much for the answer!

I wish your OH to get well soon and to find a clinic to cycle in August. And of course, you have my warmest wishes for a successful cycle and the best results! 

I’m in search of a clinic too. I live in Belgium and unfortunately, they don’t treat women at my age. I was thinking that I might have a chance with Care or Create. I heard about Nurture first time from you, I will also do some search about this one. Anyway, I will contact them, see if they are willing to treat me and at the same time they are providing natural cycles, and as it is not sure that they will, I will keep searching for other options abroad (if any…). 

What you wrote about your eggs quality is very important and it gives me some hope, as regular IVF is not an option for me. 

You are right about the stats, I can’t find much about the pregnancy rates for my age category. Natural cycle rates are even more rare, almost impossible to find. I will ask the clinic(s) for live births specifically for my age range.

Thanks again!!!

Looking forward to hearing good news from you 😊

Pernille


----------



## Syd72

Hi all, just trying to catch up after a few days with not much internet access.

Sunflowerseeds, I'm horrified that your case has been referred to the ethics committee, I really think that is absolutely wrong!  I just don't know what to suggest for you, I've been racking my brains trying to come up with ideas and I can't think of anything that doesn't involved being away a bit longer.  I don't suppose you have a close family member or friend that could be on-hand to allow you a couple of longer trips (eg London, I'm not suggesting going abroad)?  I know if it was my OH he wouldn't want anyone else involved if he was unwell so it's probably a no-go.

Pernille, if you're not able to cycle in Brussels you're probably better off going elsewhere in Europe, rather than UK.  Czech Republic won't work as they also don't treat single women and I understand Spain is pretty expensive but there are a couple of recommended clinics in Greece - not just Serum.  They seem to be fine treating older women and will be cheaper than London.  Are you looking at DE?

Ricks3, lots of luck!  I can't remember if you're cycling in UK or abroad?

LuckyE I've seen a few times men that would rather adopt than use DE, I don't really get it since at least with DE the child will be genetically his.  Men, they're strange creatures 

AFM, nothing to report really.  Almost finished the antibiotics.  Hoping to try naturally in August but I'll be in the UK at the relevant time and OH may or may not be able to fly over.  Penny seems to think that as I've been naturally pregnant within the last year and we've found a possible reason for those pregnancies failing (the hidden C) I stand a fairly good chance, for my age, of falling naturally again.  Of course there's still the egg quality issue.  Watching the dvd was really interesting, she pointed out small areas of inflammation within my uterus that would have been caused by the hidden C.  The lady I went to for acupuncture for a year before I moved abroad used to say she was sure I had inflammation issues, I guess she was right.  One of the key things I really need to do to stop it flaring up, other than take the antibiotics, is stay off the gluten!

Hope everyone else is well.


----------



## Pernille

Syd72 Thank you very much for the valuable suggestions. I cannot be treated in Brussels due to age limits (45 years for egg retrieval). I read that a member of ff is receiving treatment at UK, despite her age (49-50 years I think) and that is one of the reasons why I was looking to UK clinics.  Create also seems to have experience in natural IVF cycles and this was the other reason (from what they write on their website anyway).

While I am not a single woman, you are right, I just checked, Czech Republic will not work for me, due to the age limit.

Spain is a good suggestion, I haven’t thought about that, I will try to check it out. Do you know anything about clinics in Spain? Any specific clinic that you heard good things? 

I have read so many good things about Greek IVF clinics on FF, so I wrote to Newlife at Northern Greece, as I will be there for work at September. They answered and they were really very nice, but they have an age limit at 50 and I’m very close to 50 and I am not so optimistic that I will be a first cycle success. I wrongly thought, even though I read about Greek law, that the age limit was “50 or till menopause”. Since I’m not in menopause (just close to 50), I thought I might have had a chance to receive treatment, at least until 50 plus 364 days.
As time puts a pressure on me and I additionally have the restrictions of trying with natural cycle IVF (not fully medicated anyway), I need to find a clinic that has experience and decent success rates.  
Serum looks very promising indeed (and I was planning to arrange a visit there also at September) but now I think if I contact Serum, unfortunately the answer would be negative.

I’m a little disappointed with this turn, and yesterday I was even  thinking that it would have been great for older women if highly appraised clinics have had departments or collaborations with clinics in countries that the age limit is less restrictive. At least a quality control thing. Stupid, childish thought, I know, but it’s kind of indicative of my raising stress levels and my need of finding a trustworthy clinic.

I will research also Cyprus clinics, I have read a lot of good comments about them too. 

I want to try some cycles with OE and if not successful, I will try DE. 

I wish you good luck and fast success 😊

Thanks again very much!
And sorry for the monstrously long answer!

Pernille


----------



## Lilly08

Sunflowerseeds said:


> Good luck Lilly with your search for a new clinic.
> 
> I would love to explore clinics overseas as feel they are producing results but restricted until at least October until OH finishes his initial chemo.
> 
> The clinics I'm looking at don't seem to have much or any live births. Think closest is Create. The admin was awful when I cycled with them previously. Im now thinking do I suck up the frustration with their admin and cycle with them again. More and more when I engage with the UK clinics I start to feel what's the point.
> 
> Why is this so hard?!!! With everything going on I'm really struggling to be optimistic.
> 
> Sending hugs to you all X


Sorry about your husband illness.. Hope he will recover soon x
Thank you for the info! Yes, there are many options overseas. I didn't heard about that clinic, but I will check it out. 
So far I found more affordable prices and easier procedures. Not sure about the law regulations.. but it seems clinics are well organized.
Many members in this forum recommended BioTexCom, which really has very good reviews. I contacted them and they were very professional. Hopefully I will get more information next days.


----------



## Syd72

Permille, so sorry, I was getting people mixed up - not enough sleep last night


----------



## Lilly08

Pernille said:


> Syd72 Thank you very much for the valuable suggestions. I cannot be treated in Brussels due to age limits (45 years for egg retrieval). I read that a member of ff is receiving treatment at UK, despite her age (49-50 years I think) and that is one of the reasons why I was looking to UK clinics. Create also seems to have experience in natural IVF cycles and this was the other reason (from what they write on their website anyway).
> 
> While I am not a single woman, you are right, I just checked, Czech Republic will not work for me, due to the age limit.
> 
> Spain is a good suggestion, I haven't thought about that, I will try to check it out. Do you know anything about clinics in Spain? Any specific clinic that you heard good things?
> 
> I have read so many good things about Greek IVF clinics on FF, so I wrote to Newlife at Northern Greece, as I will be there for work at September. They answered and they were really very nice, but they have an age limit at 50 and I'm very close to 50 and I am not so optimistic that I will be a first cycle success. I wrongly thought, even though I read about Greek law, that the age limit was "50 or till menopause". Since I'm not in menopause (just close to 50), I thought I might have had a chance to receive treatment, at least until 50 plus 364 days.
> As time puts a pressure on me and I additionally have the restrictions of trying with natural cycle IVF (not fully medicated anyway), I need to find a clinic that has experience and decent success rates.
> Serum looks very promising indeed (and I was planning to arrange a visit there also at September) but now I think if I contact Serum, unfortunately the answer would be negative.
> 
> I'm a little disappointed with this turn, and yesterday I was even thinking that it would have been great for older women if highly appraised clinics have had departments or collaborations with clinics in countries that the age limit is less restrictive. At least a quality control thing. Stupid, childish thought, I know, but it's kind of indicative of my raising stress levels and my need of finding a trustworthy clinic.
> 
> I will research also Cyprus clinics, I have read a lot of good comments about them too.
> 
> I want to try some cycles with OE and if not successful, I will try DE.
> 
> I wish you good luck and fast success &#128522;
> 
> Thanks again very much!
> And sorry for the monstrously long answer!
> 
> Pernille


Hi Pernille.. Ukraine is another possible destination. Have you consider it? There are many reputable clinics. They offer all kind of treatments, IVF, surrogacy, egg donation, etc. They don't have an age limit.. I have 47 and the clinics I contacted they all accepted me. There are also some other threads in this forum where you can find more information about it. 
Best of luck x


----------



## Syd72

Pernille, I know someone that went to IVI in Valencia (although they have clinics in other cities) and thought they were great.  She was using donor eggs and was early 40s I think.  If you take a look under the Spain section of this forum you should find more recommendations. 

I think with OE it's tricky - I'm now 45 and my amh and fsh are excellent for age, as are my antral follicle counts - in that sense I have the fertility of someone mid-late 30s.  However, egg quality is still likely to be bad - having more eggs than is normal and good hormone levels doesn't mean anything when it comes to quality and the fact is by the time you are in your early 40s I think something like only one in every 20 eggs is chromosonally normal.  I know that sounds very negative so apologies - you should absolutely do what feels right to you and I am aware of someone that fell pregnant naturally at 47 and went on to have a perfectly healthy baby shortly after she turned 48.  You just need to be prepared to do it a few times if necessary, which it sounds like you are.  There must be clinics out there that treat older women, have you looked at the over 50s thread on here?  I think they are all donor eggs but they may be able to give you some recommendations.

I've also seen good things about Cyprus clinics - I think Team Miracle and Dogus are the two that get mentioned?


----------



## LuckyE

syd - my friend who got pregnant naturally after all the clinics said she would never get pregnant swears it was giving up gluten! It can't hurt!

Sunflowerseeds - I feel your frustration. Doyou have to cycle with this clinic. The child's welfare? It's out of order. And as you wait for their decision, aren't you wasting time? Create is okay - I didn't like them but some people do. If you don't have much choice and you can't travel far. 

Pernille - do they treat over 50s in cyprus? I think they do. 

Not much to report here. working on losing weight for September.


----------



## Syd72

LuckyE, I'm also concentrating on losing weight at the moment, about to do a detox holiday to kick-start it!


----------



## Pernille

Hi Lilly08,

Thank you very much! Ukraine is also a possibility that I haven’t thought about! From what you wrote, it sounds great and I will look for more information. I read that you had a good communication with BioTexCom?  If you have more information, please remember me!

Best wishes x

Syd72,

Please don’t apologize, you are not negative, you are absolutely right in what you are writing about age and egg quality. 

Even though I got unexpectedly pregnant (natural conception) this year and I m/c due to an ugly fall during traveling (or at least I believe the fall contributed to the m/c) I don’t think my chances are high while trying with my own eggs. It is something that I have to try though, to say to myself that I have done everything I could, before moving to DE.  Of course, this comes with a cost not only in money, but also in time. The good part is that with natural IVF I can try (almost) every month, at least theoretically. Also, I need time to find more info about trying (and succeeding) with DE, natural IVF (estrogen sensitivity issues dictate this decision). It’s a bit more complex than with normal IVF.

I’m not 50 yet, but my first post on FF was on over 50’s thread 😊. The ladies there are wonderful and inspiring and I found precious info about UK clinics, from a really very nice lady. And as you mentioned, they are mostly with DE, so they know well what they are talking about.  And yes, I saw their positive comments about Team Miracle and Dogus. But in that thread, I couldn’t find any info on natural IVF (so not sure if these clinics are providing such a treatment, I have to write and ask) and it’s a thread with not many members (and many of them have already their little miracles) so not so active on FF. 

So, I thought it’s time to post in this thread too 😊 

And I am really feeling grateful for all the substantial  help and information I have received here!

LuckyE

From what I read, there must be no age limit in Northern Cyprus, while I think there is an age limit in the south part. I think Team Miracle and Dogus treat women near or over 50’s. So, if Cyprus clinics are doing natural IVF, maybe it worth paying them a visit in September 😊

I wish you best of luck with your next cycle! 

By the way, do you think that Serum will provide in the future stem cell therapy despite age? Generally speaking, I could argue that stem cell therapy cannot be considered only a fertility treatment, but someone can theoretically have it (only after doctor's advice of course) for other reasons too (like for well being, relieve from menopausal symptoms, psychological reasons  etc.). Would you please inform me about any news? 

Best wishes to all! X


----------



## Syd72

Permille that's great that you had a natural pregnancy this year, so sorry for your loss though.  

Do Serum definitely have an age limit on the stem cell treatment?  That surprises me a little.  There's a thread on here about the stem cell treatment that I'm following with interest!


----------



## Pernille

Syd72 

I wanted to travel to Greece to take part on Serum’s research, but I read somewhere in the forum that there is an age limit 
I’m very interested in the stem cell treatment too. I searched but I didn’t find the thread, may please guide me? I would like to follow it too!


----------



## Syd72

Hi, here's the thread: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=365921.0

I would definitely contact Serum and ask rather than going by what you see on here, you never know. They're incredibly quick to respond to email and so lovely and friendly. You'll need to do it soon as they close at the end of next week for the whole of August.


----------



## LuckyE

Pernille - I agree with Syd. Just ask Serum. Peny has closed the trials now till the results in SEptember/ October. So exciting! Basically the stem cells will apply to women over 50 surely? That's the whole point. To rejuvinate the ovaries so that older ladies can still have IVF?. But I don't think Peny will give you an answer till she has the results. 

What I imagine is, if it works, you can have the treatment but you'll have to go somewhere else for the IVF. 

AFM - last day in Athens. It was a bit sad just hanging here working rather than waiting for a transfer. But I've had a really nice time. 

Syd- good luck. we need to do something whilst we wait!


----------



## Pernille

Syd72 

Thanks a lot for the link!

Syd72 and LuckyE

You are right, I should ask. Since the trial is closed, I guess I will have to wait until September/October.

LuckyE

What you are writing is the sensible point of view. But it doesn’t mean that it will be like that, unfortunately. It depends on what Serum is planning to do and also, there are the Greek laws forbidding any fertility treatment over 50 (if I understood correctly). So, if Serum wants to help women in their 50’s, would have to state that the stem cell treatment is not only for reproductive reasons, which by the way is more than true!

Of course, I’m highly interested in stem cell therapy for rejuvenating the ovaries and the possibility of a successful IVF, but that’s not the only reason.
 In the long run, I’m also highly interested for the quality of life and the longevity they might potentially provide, in the future. If we can prolong the time till menopause, we can have less bone structures, less mood swings, less deaths from heart failures and potentially less cancer. I read a research that finds a positive correlation between time of menopause and longevity. So, even a small delay is an advantage for women. 

And in the end, I think it’s better if doctors evaluate women in their 50’s and decide if they can have or not a fertility treatment, than a strict law. I feel it is a bit unfair, but this is only my thoughts and I might be wrong. (And anyway, I can’t do anything about it).

So, let’s see what Serum will do.

Enjoy your last day in Athens 😊


----------



## Pernille

Apologies, instead of bone structures, I meant bone fractures!


----------



## Blondie71

http://www.fertilitycrete.gr/fertility-legislation-in-greece just posting this as gives a snapshot of Greek law unfortunately no clinic can risk getting round it unless legislation changes, it's like the anonymous donors stuff it simply can't be bent &#128533;


----------



## Blondie71

Btw not sure about stem cells but treatment definitely cuts off the day before a woman's 50th birthday


----------



## Lily0750

Hi ladies, 

I wrote to Serum re. stem cells treatment. Their reply says they would treat until 50th birthday.


----------



## Pernille

Blondie71 

Thank you very much for the link 😊
Yes, everybody should comply with the law and I believe no one should try to get around it.
I was just wondering if stem cell therapy falls strictly under this law or there is another law that applies to it.

Now we have the answer, thanks to Lily0750 😊

Lily0750

You did the best thing for all of us, by mailing them! Thank you very much! 
Even though I am feeling a bit disappointed, it’s good that now I know 😊

Best wishes to both x


----------



## Blondie71

When is your birthday Pernille?


----------



## Pernille

End of August


----------



## Blondie71

Ah I see 😠 obviously serum clinic closes whole of August so head onto other options like Ukraine or Russia even India as they don't have the restrictions, not sure about North Cyprus but I *think* they are possibly 51 for some reason 😕 good luck


----------



## Blondie71

Oh yeah check Turkey and Israel too, Israel have excellent clinics!!!


----------



## Pernille

Blondie71,

Yes, I’m researching other options, but concerning stem cell therapy, I don’t think anyone else provides anything like this.

Thank you very much for the suggestions! 

I was thinking about Israel even though I don’t know anything about the clinics there. I believe there is a great medical system and also, I think the society in Israel is family friendly, so it makes sense to have a fertility treatment there. I really like this idea!
You are the first person to mention Israel to me 😊 Do you have any information about a starting point, clinics that I may contact? 

Thanks!!!


----------



## Berry77

Hi Pernille, I would also recommend you to check Cyprus where you can also find excellent clinics. I had a treatment of tandem cycle last year at British Cyprus IVF Hospital and I am a mother of a little angel now. If you need any additional information, don't hesitate to ask me. I really want to help everyone here because I tried so hard for so long time.


----------



## Pernille

Berry77

Thank you so much! I would be grateful to you for any information you could share! Does  British Cyprus IVF Hospital accepts women at my age?


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi

Rick - thanks for your kind words.

Modified natural IVF uses the minimum of meds to encourage only a few follicles to grow. It's particularly targeted for women with low AMH or poor responders. Treatment starts on day 4 or 5 as the body has already selected the follicles to grow. The thinking is there's no point giving someone loads of meds to try to get lots of eggs as only a few will work and lots of meds can produce low quality eggs. They aim for our body to do the natural selection process to decide which follicles will grow and it's a encouraged, hence starting meds later in the cycle.

My understanding is mild IVF doesn't use a high dose but higher than modified natural as again it impacts on egg quality. This method is ok for women with reasonable AMH and/or respond well to treatment as they is a possibility a good number of egg could be collected. Think if OK results, i.e. good FSH then body can cope with higher dose and possibly ok eggs. 

Fingers crossed for your next cycle. What's your treatment protocol? 

Syd - thanks for the rant. I echo everything you've said. We spoke with Create and they just checked how OH was get along with everything. Even OH cancer consultant has queried the referral. Think its repercussions from raising concerns with my previous treatment with another doctor with clinic. I spoke with them again and now advices I would be looking at October to cycle with them as we would need to wait for process to be approved.  They didn't check if we could financially support a child with one parent or family support, etc. Think it's convenient they misunderstood the interpretation of what needs to be asked. 

OH not really engaging that much with his family so it's mainly me and a few friends. OH treatment is every 3 weeks so at some point it will crash with my cycle. Kind if accepting that for now we need to be in the UK.

Interesting what you've said about gluten free diet. When OH was awaiting his diagnosis we started eating clean/alkaline diet which was gluten free. It massively seem to help with inflammation as often suffer with acid reflux. I also lost some weight which was a bonus.

Good luck with trying naturally or when you go to Serum.

Lucky - I'm looking at Create's new clinic. Had a call yesterday. The doctor seem really good and offered us a few options for next treatment, which was more than what the clinic who's referred us has done. They wanted to try the same high dose protocol. Think it may be a blessing in disguise. It's a case of better the devil you know with Create and hoping for the best. It's very a different protocol so that's a start.

Pernille - I'm sure Alta conceived in her late 40s. She's on FF. 

AFM Create has suggested that I try Bemfola. If I opt for a modified natural IVF then I would start on day 4 or 5 with a low dose. I would only expect to get a few eggs. As my AMH is reasonable for my age I should be ok with a mild IVF cycle. They would expect more eggs but they may not be better quality. 

Got a few weeks to decide as it will take a few weeks to arrange for OH semen to be transferred so aiming for August cycle. I'm kind of thinking IVF is more of a numbers game so think I should opt for mild IVF but also I've read about starting day 4 or 5 has helped with better eggs but then I feel I'm missing out of getting a few more eggs. I've also asked for PCIS instead of ICIS so they pick the best sperm.

OH is still keen to research other clinics, just in case we discover a clinic doing some innovative work. 

Think many clinics are so greedy to take our money and take advantage of our vulnerabilities but don't invest in research to properly help us.  It can make me so mad at times. Recently had calls/emails from Reproductive Health Group, Care Fertility and Nurture. They all have fantastic marketing, will sell you a dream and rob you blind but ask about live births with own eggs at my age and they 'forget' to return calls/emails. Very disappointed.  Have to keep the hope otherwise I don't think I will continue on this journey.

Sending positivity to you all x


----------



## Blondie71

https://www.emcell.com/ this could help you pernille and they are in Ukraine, there are also clinical trial websites to register for in Europe which would of course be free but how long could you be waiting?? &#128533;


----------



## Blondie71

https://www.patientsbeyondborders.com/procedure/fertility-and-reproductive-health this should give you some help on clinics in Israel x


----------



## Lilly08

Hi, Pernille.. thank you! Yes, so far we are just communicating. My case is a bit different than yours. Try to give them a call or send them an email, I'm sure they will inform you about everything. They answered me quickly and provided all the information I needed. I have to send them all my tests as well as my husband's (that's what I'm doing right now). Also I got a brief introduction about the procedure and I was asked to make an appointment. Once in Ukraine I will have all the details. Basically the first thing will be choosing an egg donor. I'm trying to arrange the trip with my DH.. we will travel most probably next month. I will keep you updated x


----------



## Pernille

Sunflowerseeds That’s great! I will look for Alta 😊 

Blondie71 Thank you so much for the links! They are extremely helpful.  It’s true, I’m in a race with time ☹ I’m giving myself time until September, in order to research my options and contact the clinics, and even this seems too much of a delay. 

Lilly08                Warmest wishes and positive thought for your travel next month! It would be great to have “inside” information! Thank you very much! Meanwhile, I will mail them and I will tell you when I receive their answer.

Sorry to all for answering a bit late, I have a migraine crisis (maybe from stress?)

Best wishes!
Pernille


----------



## Lilly08

Thank you very much, Pernille! It feels great to receive all this support and good vibes! We are so excited and anxious at the same time... I will definitely share my experience in this journey with all of you. It might be useful for others who are in the same situation. If you had any question or doubt about any treatment, I'd be happy to ask at the clinic for you on my first appointment there.
Hope you are having a great weekend, ladies! xx


----------



## Pernille

Hi Sunflowerseeds

I was thinking about what you wrote in your post about clinics not providing data for live births with own eggs. (As you know, I am also encountering problem in acquiring the information I need :/) I was thinking that many clinics are advising in favor of a certain protocol or DE and they either are not very willing to try something else, or they don't have enough data to saw. I mean that if a clinic is doing 99 percent IVF with DE in the clients that are older than 46 (just a random example) it's highly unlikely to have enough data for statistical analysis for OE live births. So, the most likely is to propose DE (or the protocol they follow). And yes, it is very frustrating!

But we have to stay positive and determined to find all the data we need and do the best for us! 
I know nothing about Bemfola, but I'm sure you will choose the best protocol &#128522;
(Hope my English are not totally incomprehensible).

Always sending you my most positive thoughts and wishes. X

Hi All

I have read this article before some days while I was searching for info about protocols.

The article claims that: "In a study which will be presented at the British Fertility Society meeting in Edinburgh today, experts found that by simply switching the conditions in which fertilised eggs live before implantation the womb, they can double the number of healthy embryos.

Previously it was thought that all genetic problems in embryos stemmed from DNA errors in the egg and sperm of the mother and father, and could not be altered.

But the new study proves that chromosomes - which hold the DNA - are still malleable even after fertilisation and the environment they live in has a huge impact on how well they will form, and ultimately the health of a baby.

Pregnancy loss was 3.5 times higher for embryos which grew in one 'soup' compared to the other".

Here is the link to the article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/05/nurture-important-nature-comes-ivf-scientists-find/

I wonder if anyone knows something about it? I was not able to locate the original research paper.

I wish you all a great week!
Pernille


----------



## miamiamo

Pernille - if you want to know how to interpret success rates of IVF clinics, you might like this article egg donationfriends.com/success-rates-ivf-with-donor-eggs-truth-clinics-dont-tell/ Hope this helps


----------



## ricks3

Thanks for your response and great explanations Sunflowerseeds - I am going to be on 150 menopur and femara for 8 days, then scan and add cetrotide.... not familiar with this protocol but the last one with just menopur 300 rising to 350 ended with poor response and was cancelled... have had 2 cycles out to rest and now terrified of what happens next. If this cycle gets cancelled or fails I guess I;mm looking to see what else to try and where else to go. DH wants to stop altogether and I am just confused.

Love to everyone. x


----------



## Pernille

Hi miamiamo,

thank you very much for the link and apologies for not replying sooner. I highly appreciate all the info I can get at the moment. I have already read it, but I will search the site more thoroughly today, as I'm trying to find live birth rates for natural (unmedicated)  IVF either with own eggs or with donor eggs and it is quite hard to find information about this, anywhere. IWhat is written in the link you sent, clarifies a lot of things and provides a way to interpret the percentages that the clinics are presenting. Thanks again!

I read on your signature that you trying for a sibling? How are you? How things are going?


----------



## Pernille

Good luck and best wishes  ricks3


----------



## Lilly08

Hopefully this time everything will be fine...Good luck, ricks3!!


----------



## Wunderwomban

Hi Pernille
have you considered the blood plasma ovarian rejuvenation that Genesis in Athens are offering? I'm doing stem cell at the moment with Serum, but I had considered Genesis for their treatment....from memory I was told that a lot of menopausal women were using the treatment not to conceive but instead to improve overall health....so perhaps they might have a wider age bracket. I think it was around 1K for treatment there. There was also a clinic in NYC offering it, but a bit far away and I believe it cost much more than Greece. The only other trial I have heard of is the Ovascience stuff that Jonathan Tilly (researcher) is involved in. I think that's over in the US and I don't know the cost or what their criteria is. I'm not that sure that stem cell is necessarily going to work for me in terms of own egg conception, but I'm hopeful that at the very least it will help my overall wellbeing and perhaps make my body a better place for a possible donor egg conception which will be our next step in the new year.


----------



## Blue dolphin

Hope everyone is well.
Had a natural cycle recently but no clinic! Will be speaking to a few in the coming weeks.

Anyway looking at my Vits again. Does anyone know how much Spirulina and Wheatgrass to take?


----------



## Lilly08

Hi ladies...! Hope you are well.. 
I'm just waiting for my appointment next month... :S It's taking forever

Blue dolphin.. not sure about wheatgrass.. but I found this online:

_The dose of spirulina used in studies examining its effects vary greatly. In general, 1-8 g per day of spirulina has been shown to have some effect. The specific doses depend on the condition its being used for:

For cholesterol, doses in the range of 1-8 g per day may be impactful
For muscle performance, doses of 2-7.5 g per day have been used
For blood glucose control, very mild effects have been seen with 2 g per day
Blood pressure may be affected at doses of 3.5-4.5 g per day
Effects for fatty liver have been seen at doses of 4.5 g per day
Spirulina is about 20% C-phycocyanin by weight, and about 1% phycocyanobilin by weight. The dosage range of 200mg/kg C-phycocyanin (1g/kg spirulina) in rats is approximately:

10.9g for a 150lb person
14.5g for a 200lb person
18.2g for a 250lb person
Further research is needed to determine whether spirulina should be taken once a day, or in smaller doses, multiple times per day.

It is not recommended to exceed the highest dose mentioned above, as no clear benefits have been noted beyond that level._

I think you should ask your doctor first... xx


----------



## Blue dolphin

Thank you Lily - 

Just wondering if any has taken Wheatgrass or spirulina for lowering FSH, themselves?
I know it will be anecdotal but any info would help.

x


----------



## Pernille

Marigold16 Thank you so much for all the information!!!  I think I read somewhere that Genesis has also the same age limit, but I will contact them for sure! US seems a bit far away for me at the moment, but it’s great to know that there is an option of receiving stem cell therapies there. I think stem cell therapy is highly possible to work for you in terms of own egg conception 😊 Wishing you the best with all my heart!

Best wishes to all x


----------



## Wunderwomban

Hey Pernille, was at Serum just this morning watching the vid of my stem cell Lapo with Dr Giannis and I thought of your query and asked him too age....they're offering stem cell up to 52....they get round the Greek law of 50 by arguing they are just giving the stem cell, not offering IVF and instead r telling folks to go away and try naturally...so looks like it might be a go-er for u. He was telling me they have just completed a more formal trial of 40 women for stem cell and hope to eventually publish...criteria is for that particular trial was no period for 6 months so guessing many of them would've been 50+. There's a good thread on stem cell under POF/Early Menopause which I think may be listed under diagnosis xx


----------



## Pernille

Hello Marigold16  These are the best news I heard since ages! I'm so grateful to you! I read your post and I cried. Do you think I may send them a message or call them to arrange a visit? I will look now for the thread. 

If we have the chance to meet at Serum, or whenever you pass from Brussels, a big box of the best Belgian chocolates will be waiting for you, along with a very grateful long distant (online) friend.

I wish everything went well for you today at Serum 
Thank you again! A lot!


----------



## Blue dolphin

Marigold - just wondered how much Serum are charging? 
Have they recommended any wait time?


----------



## Wunderwomban

Hey Pernille, it is good news isn't it! Yeh, think you could message them, today was their last day before 1 month holiday, but think there's a sign on website saying they still check mail.  Blue dolphin...it depends on procedure - if your ovaries are reachable which I think most are it's 2K Euros....unfortunately one of mine went wonky in the 3 week cultivation wait I had,  and rode up too high, so instead it had to be done via laparoscopy for 5.5K...1K for stem cultivation, 2.5K for hospital and 2K for Serum surgeon. Penny gave me free implantation cuts to soften the blow which I had done at same time.. They say lapo gives best results as they can see more clearly that they are defo injecting into ovaries...I watched my DVD of op today and it was quite amazing to see...but it's a bigger procedure n I'm pretty sore from mine - 3 keyholes, (5mm) one in belly button n other 2 in lower sides make a triangle shape. My bank balance n body would defo preferred the vaginal procedure.


----------



## Blondie71

Ouch that's quite a financial sting marigold hope it works well


----------



## Lilly08

That's a huge amount and struggle...Good luck, marigold!


----------



## Blue dolphin

Marigold - thank you. Really sounds expensive. More than the IVF procedure there. 

When in your cycle did they advise you to do the procedure? Did you have to have a period first?

Fingers crossed for you. 

x


----------



## Wunderwomban

Hi
From what i can gather most ladies are treated using the cheaper vaginal procedure which is only 2K Euros. I think they have done approximately 40-50 stem cells to date and I was their 4th laparoscopy. I wasn't advised of when to do it my cycle....but I've since read on another forum that mid cycle is best as ovaries have better visibility....I was out on day 22 of my cycle....but to be honest even if they have given me that advice, they were closing down for August and although they had originally been happy to talk about freezing stem cell and having treatment in September....they then seemed unsure as to the effects of the thaw....simply I think because they haven't done it before so its an unknown and asked me to come out sooner. So even if I had known about mid cycle advice the chances are it wouldn't have worked for me with timing with the clinic closing. Dr Giannis told me that if you can afford it a lapo is the best procedure as they are absolutely certain they have injected all of the stem cells into the ovaries....compared to reduced visibility during a vaginal procedure. I had quite a rough time of it in Mitera Hospital so despite knowing that I would still prefer to have had it done vaginally.....but it's done now and I can only hope.


----------



## Wunderwomban

PS, Yes you will need to give a menstrual blood sample first on day 2 or 3 of your cycle. If you are irregular they will give you hormones to regulate it to tie up with your dates there. The stem cells then take 3-4 weeks cultivation after and that's when you have actual stem cell procedure.


----------



## Lilly08

Marigold16, it happens...
I didn't know ovaries have better visibility at mid cycle  
Hopefully this time everything will be better and you will have good news soon!


----------



## Pernille

Hi Marigold16,

I'm sorry to hear that you had a a rough time during your treatment! I wish that the therapy will work superb for you and fast  

Just to update  you, I visited Serum's site and I couldn't find the stem cell therapy (I know it's normal, since they just started) and they write to contact them in an emergency and even though I feel I am in an emergency, I didn't want to make something wrong by writing while they are on holidays .But I think I can combine some holidays with a visit to Athens at the end of August, beginning of September. Let's hope they will see me! 

Best wishes to all!
Pernille x


----------



## Blue dolphin

Hello folks - just wondered what the hematocrit - hemoglobin test is for Genesis? Is it just FBC[full blood count] and RBC[haemoglobin] test?


----------



## Blondie71

Hi pernille they will not open until 1st September (and it's strict as all staff on holiday, they have someone to oversee emails but only for those patients treated this month who need medication or complications from procedures they carried out in July) be aware the backlog of patients waiting to do treatment is huge for September so you might want to save your holiday for later 😉


----------



## Pernille

Hi Blondie71,

Thank you very much for the information and the advice.  You are right, I should wait and call them first before scheduling a trip.  It's just that I felt that at the moment  I might have a chance for having the treatment and I didn't want to risk  something to change and lose it. But of course such things always take time.  How are you?


----------



## Wunderwomban

Yes Lily, hopefully something good will come of it. 

I can understand you will be feeling impatient Pernille, but I think you will be able to start quickly once you have day2 of period established. I suppose the enforced wait means that you may be able to hear whether there has been any success and you can then decide whether it's worth investing the finances. I think quite a few had it in June so am guessing hormone retests will be carried out in September/October.


----------



## ricks3

Hi Ladies - I hope you are all well.

Has anyone used melatonin? I have bought some as recommended in the "It starts with the Egg book". In the book it says to start taking the tablets when you start taking Lupron... but I don't have Lupron in my protocol... can anyone explain when I should start taking the tablets?

Thanks so much for any help.

xx


----------



## LuckyE

Hi Ricks, I just looked lupron up and it seems like it's a downregulator - so I'm assuming Burserelin equivalent. 
Here are my thoughts on melatonin - 2 years ago my clinic recommended I take 5 mg  continuously for a month or two before EC to help egg quality they said. Now, 2 years later they only reccomend it from day one of the cycle and its 2 mg....  I didn't question this thinking. But will if you want... 

But that's the only clinic I've been to that ever reccomended melatonin 2 years ago and I went to a few.

Also, that book is old now, so I wouldn't take it as gospel. I do still take melatonin when I remember it and will deffo take it from day but not sure what its' meant to do as it takes 3 months for the egg to develop so is it for egg quality or what?

Sorry if I haven't been helpful... I'd take it sooner rather than later, to be sure, that's kind of what I'm saying.


----------



## ricks3

Thanks LuckyE - I am on a protocol with no down regging this time - I think I'll start taking it on day one of AF. Can't hurt I guess.... trying anything and everything this last round.


----------



## Pernille

Marigold  yes, if they accept me, I can start as soon as my period starts. And, as you say,  maybe I might have also some more information on what to expect. I am not an expert, but from the little I know, I can understand the rationale behind this treatment and I believe that it has good chances to give good results. There is of course a question of when someone should expect to see the first improvement. I wish it works for you very soon


----------



## Syd72

Just checking in to see how everyone is doing.

Ricks3 - you've started cycling now I think, how's it going?

Sunflower, I hope you and OH are doing ok.  Any more luck in the quest for a clinic?  Did the review with your current clinic happen yet?

LuckyE - do you know when in September you're cycling?

Blue dolphin, I don't know the answer to your question, I'm sorry.

Hope everyone else is ok.  I'm back in the UK for a few weeks, not enjoying the weather!


----------



## ricks3

Hi ladies - I hope you are all well 

Syd - thanks for asking how I am 

I have amazing and surreal news. I have a shock natural BFP! In total disbelief as we were told by a Dr we might as well not bother trying! I was supposed to start stimming this week with the hope of getting as far as going to Prague for EC. I took a test on Wednesday not expecting anything but just to get my head around the forthcoming cycle and still cannot believe the results. I went up to Dr Gorgy for a blood test on Weds afternoon and BFP confirmed at 61.7. Had a consult with his and I'm on all sorts of drugs now. Went back on Friday and numbers have gone up to 165.5. We are amazed. Scan booked for 4th Sept and I just keep taking the drugs until then. Now have to email the clinic in Prague to let them know I am not coming - after the last cycle was cancelled due to poor response I never thought this would be the reason I didn't get to go! Feeling totally blessed, amazed, astonished, very very lucky and slightly scared.  Thanking you all for your support in getting my this far. Love to everyone. xxx


----------



## Syd72

Wow Ricks that is amazing news! Huge congratulations!!! Please do keep us posted on how it's all going, wishing you a very happy and healthy nine months x


----------



## Lilly08

Oh, that's great, ricks! Congratulations!!! 
Please keep us updated!
Wishing you all the best! Blessings! 

How are you doing, ladies? I've been off for a while..my son had chickenpox - that was going to happen sooner or later. We had some horrible  itchy blisters days 
He is feeling better now.
Hope you are all fine..x


----------



## miamiamo

ricks3 - massive congrats! such awesome news


----------



## Blue dolphin

Ricks- congrats. That is great news.   

Lily hope you guys get better soon.


----------



## LuckyE

Amazing news, Ricks. So happy for you!


----------



## Blondie71

Oh wow Ricks how amazing for you and your hubby   x


----------



## ricks3

Thanks you for your lovely words ladies - still in utter disbelief. xx


----------



## dolphinx

*ricks3* - many congratulations!! I may be in a similar situation...

I have been off this thread for a while. Just feeling really confused about what to do next and having initial appointments, getting different advice and protocols at every clinic, and then feeling helplessly indecisive (which is not actually like me). I will come back to this as it might interest some people about all the different recommendations.

Anyway to cut a long story short I decided to transfer the two frozen embryos from my worst ever cycle, basically because it seemed pointless paying the storage fee for another two years. Was totally convinced it wouldn't work, and there was nothing to suggest it had, but got a BFP first time I tested on the OTD! I couldn't and still can't believe it. Very early days so feeling very cautious but on the other hand its nice to know that it is at least possible for me. I haven't seen a BFP in over 10 years.


----------



## Lilly08

Blue dolphin said:


> Ricks- congrats. That is great news.
> 
> Lily hope you guys get better soon.


Thanks for your wishes! Yes, we are almost recovered  How have you been? Did you find a suitable clinic?


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi 

Massive congratulations to Rick and Dolphinx. Really pleased for you. Sending you all the best wishes for the next steps of your journeys.

Hope everyone else are doing well.

Sorry to be the bearer of sad news. I've had a sad few weeks. My mom sadly passed away. Feel like a part of me has gone. Slowly adjusting to life without her. It feels very strange. My mom was an amazing woman and despite having dementia and other illnesses she was still an inspiration. I trying to take strength from this as well as many cherished memories. 

Before my mom's health worsened I had started engaging with Create Manchester. They seem a lovely team which massively helps as I really couldn't cope with the poor admin at Birmingham. Anyway I'm trying to take each day as it comes and see what happens.

Hugs to you all X


----------



## TM88

Congratulations to all those who have got BFPs, it gives me hope.

Can I ask has anyone had a BFP whether natural or IVF (own eggs) ?  I did a FET transfer in Jan got a BFp but sadly miscarried and not sure if to go again.  Husband says no


----------



## dolphinx

*Sunflowerseeds* I'm so sorry. Life is tough. Makes you realise we should cherish what we already have. Look after yourself. Your Mum made you who you are and will always be in your heart. no-one can take that away from you.

*TM88* it was own eggs. But a really ropey cycle (only 2 fertilised giving 1 x 8 cell and 1 x 4 cell on day 3). I really thought there was no chance.


----------



## TM88

Dolphinx - what amazing news!  the transfer i got BFP in Jan were my final 3 day 3 embryos.  The two previous FET were day 5 blastocysts and they never took so you never know.  xx


----------



## Lilly08

Sunflowerseeds said:


> Hi
> 
> Massive congratulations to Rick and Dolphinx. Really pleased for you. Sending you all the best wishes for the next steps of your journeys.
> 
> Hope everyone else are doing well.
> 
> Sorry to be the bearer of sad news. I've had a sad few weeks. My mom sadly passed away. Feel like a part of me has gone. Slowly adjusting to life without her. It feels very strange. My mom was an amazing woman and despite having dementia and other illnesses she was still an inspiration. I trying to take strength from this as well as many cherished memories.
> 
> Before my mom's health worsened I had started engaging with Create Manchester. They seem a lovely team which massively helps as I really couldn't cope with the poor admin at Birmingham. Anyway I'm trying to take each day as it comes and see what happens.
> 
> Hugs to you all X


I'm so sorry for your loss... I can't even imagine your feelings right now.
Sending you strength!


----------



## LuckyE

so sorry for your loss Sunflower seeds


----------



## Blondie71

Oh sunflowerseeds I'm so sad for you and you just can't seem to catch a break at the minute 😢 brighter days HAVE to be ahead


----------



## Blondie71

Dolphinx that's fantastic what a roll this thread is on keep it flowing   let's hope twins for you!! My crop were dodgy too they wouldn't even take them to day 5 and my 3 day transfer came up better than I could have hoped for ❤


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Thanks everyone for your kind words. Your support is much appreciated.

I'm trying to be kind to myself.  My OH has been wonderful, despite his own illness and this has massively helped. 

A lot has happened recently and I need to find the strength. 

Sending hugs and positivity to you all X


----------



## Syd72

Dolphin, that's great news, congratulations.

Sunflower, I'm so very sorry x


----------



## dolphinx

Thanks *Blondie* and *Syd.*

*Blondie* - you are an inspiration! I have to stop myself thinking negatively but its difficult because that cycle so bad. I've definitely got my feet on the ground (now that I'm over the shock!).

*Sunflower* - better times are ahead as Blondie said.

*Syd *- where are you up to? Are you carrying on with the IUIs?


----------



## TTCNK

Hi all - I have been quiet for a while but checking in on this thread all the time - Dolphinx that is fantastic news - wishing you all the best for the next months.

A quick update from me - our little rainbow was born on 5th August - so at the age of 46 (47 this November) - a perfect little boy conceived naturally with my own eggs after 5 MC's and 2 failed IVF's..  don't give up hope and we wish you all the best with your journeys x


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

That's fantastic news TTCNK.

I'm so pleased for you all. 

Hope you're all doing well x


----------



## Syd72

Fabulous news ttcnk, congratulations.

Dolphin, no more iui's since the April one. We went to Serum in July for further testing and a hysto, trying naturally now and if nothing happens we'll cycle with them in October.


----------



## miamiamo

TTCNK- awesome, massive congrats


----------



## dolphinx

Glad you're still going Syd. Serum would have been my next move.

TTCNK what an inspiration! Big congrats x.


----------



## LuckyE

so happy for you TTCNK. praying that we all have some luck


----------



## Agaamh

TTCNK
All the best for you.You gave me a hope!


----------



## Syd72

LuckyE, how are things going with you, is is September you're back in Greece?  Sorry, my memory is shocking... 

I'm in the tww but not holding out any hope although we were at least together at the right time this month.  I'm heading back to Hong Kong this weekend, just running around trying to see both my brothers before I go.

Hope everyone else is well.


----------



## Blondie71

Ttcnk ❤❤❤ amazing congratulations mummy


----------



## LuckyE

Syd72 - hiya! yes, I'm back this month.  Have to take a blood test tomorrow to see what's going on and if I can cycle... This is the last time I'm trying with OE so I'm    for a miracle. 

Glad you are in the 2WW - there's still a chance. I hope so! 

Hi everyone else.


----------



## Syd72

Good luck with the blood test, keep us posted!


----------



## Lilly08

Hi everyone.. What have you been up to?
I've been off for a while and just came today to find this fantastic news! Congratulations to the mom and the little boy! TTCNK wishing you the best. You are such a true inspiration! This keeps me motivated to pursuit my own dream.
Blessings


----------



## highlandgirl

Hellloooo Ladies!
I am so sorry I have been so quiet of late but been having a crazy tourist season here and business has been booming 
I have been reading when I can but not writing so I can only apologise for the lack of personals this time!
TTCNK I am so so grateful to you for coming back on to this thread to announce the birth of your baby thank you thank you thank you – this is the reason I started this thread was to hear the stories of the amazing miracle that is to have a baby aged over 45 with your own eggs - and naturally too! I am truly delighted for you xxxx
I know this is a big ask but as there seems to be so many new ladies joining us and I am sure us older member of this thread are still around??...would there be any way we could give a snapshot of where we are at so everyone can get back up to speed and we can really get this thread going again for those who are still looking to be part of this wonderful support network?
I know that your signatures tell a bit of your story but I think it may help us to bring us up to date fully?
Thoughts
AFM – It has been a year since my IVF cycle and boy have I learned so much about this whole turbulent journey in an effort to conceive! If only I knew then what I know now hindsight is a wonderful thing and all that jazz 
In the last year I have had the following results:-
1 x IVF 3 eggs 2 fertilised 2x 3dt – BFN
1 x Clomid Cycle – 6 follicles 5mm lining did not agree with me as messed up my AF and thinned my lining – BFN 
Tried naturally for a number of months with ovulation occurring every second month or so…
Then 
1 x Letrozole with Ovitrelle Trigger Cycle – 4 follicles 7mm lining - BFN
2nd Letrozole with Ovitrelle Trigger Cycle – 3 follicles 10.2 lining - BFN
AMH was 1.1 in March – Tested again after taking DHEA 25 then 50mg and Coq10 100mg  now 600mg for 3 months now 1.9!
I have had an online and then telephone consultation with CHR in New York which was very interesting however they are incredibly expensive but get great results for over 40’s and what I took from this was to take Coq10 x 1000mg and DHEA for 3 months to prepare the ovaries before any treatment.
I am still taking the following supplememts:-
Pregnacare Multivitamin
Vit D
Vit C
Vit E
Coq10 – 1000mg
DHEA – Ultra Micronized - Macpherson Labs UK – I have had no side effects incidentally but much better results…
Omega 3/6/9
If you haven’t read the book It starts with the egg by Rebecca Fett I suggest you buy it now as this is the best book by far to assist us more mature ladies 
Another great resource is IVF matters which is an online IVF preparation option where you can order all blood tests arrange scans etc.
Another resource I found useful was Gabriella Rosas 14 day challenge which is a free online option.
I am about to turn 47 and I am trying to stay positive about our journey but understand that time is not on our side! 


----------



## esj

Hello ladies.
Wow its great to hear the news from you all *Ricks3 *, *Dolphinx *and *TTCNK*. I've been off the radar for a while but about to go back to Serum after an unavoidable 3 month break for the 2nd cycle of our 2 cycle package. Been trying naturally inbetween but no luck sadly. Feeling very nervous as this has to be last shot with own eggs too. 
*Syd72* *LuckyE* you are both going back to Serum too right? Fingers crossed for all of us. 
They are proposing to do a fresh and frozen transfer so will mean a day 3 transfer if we have a successful result with this cycle then a 5 day with the Blastocyst we have frozen. Does anyone have any thoughts or insight into this type of transfer? Its all new to me...
Thanks and thinking of everyone xx


----------



## Lilly08

Hi highlandgirl,
Thank you for creating this thread. It is great to find women over 45s here and being able to share our thoughts.
Sorry to know you got BFN! Time is not on our side but there is still hope. Staying positive is hard but we should do it.
Thanks for this book recommendation.
To make it short, I'm about to turn 48 and I have a 10 years old son. I'm on the surrogacy path right now.
x


----------



## Blondie71

Is that surrogacy with your own eggs Lilly? Is there a reason surrogacy as opposed to you doing treatment? I'm assuming you ran into medical complications since your son (don't reply if it's too personal btw) just curious as the cost difference is obviously vast between treatment and surrogacy x


----------



## Lilly08

Hi Blondie71
No, it is surrogacy with DE. I did't have any medical complication but I guess I waited too long to look for another baby. 
We tried to conceive naturally but it didn't happen.
Got diagnosed secondary infertility and poor egg quality. I'm about to turn 48 and age is not helping.
There is no treatment for us unfortunately.
Thanks for asking 
How are you doing?


----------



## Syd72

I'm really sorry, I will do personals later but I'm in shock. Positive test this morning. That's a natural cycle. It's very very early days, AF isn't even due til Sunday (it's Thursday morning here now), smu with only a one hour hold but a clear pink line on an early detection test.


----------



## dolphinx

*Syd72* exciting!! Fingers crossed for you x.


----------



## ricks3

Oh Syd - what great news - keeping everything crossed for you xxxx


----------



## Syd72

Thanks ladies.

Highlandgirl, great idea to give a snapshot.  I might just wait until I've had my blood test results and then do it   Great news on improving your AMH.  Are you going to go with CHR?

Esj, I've never heard of that type of transfer, so they're transferring two in the same week?  Interesting.  When are you going back?

Edit: HCG is only 70, I think I'm 15dpo, I've been googling (naturally) and that seems a little on the low side so now feeling anxious and waiting for repeat on Monday afternoon.  Progersterone is 83.8 which I think is probably good.


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi 

Sorry for a lack of updates. I will update soon. 

Just want to say a massive congratulations to TTCNK and all the lovely ladies who've got a BFP. You're an inspiration to us to keep on trying as it is possible. 

I know these first few weeks/months are testing but you have got a BFP. That's a huge achievement and shows promise. I know it's easy for others to say but please try to relax and enjoy the experience and look forward to the next steps of your exciting journey. 

Take very good care of yourself and sending positivity for us all for BFPs. 

X


----------



## Wez

It's been months since I left a post.  I'm still with Create at Birmingham and now their admin has had a kick up the bum and the rubbish have been fired we are up and running fast!
As I have been TTC using own eggs and failing to produce anything useful and my cycles and hormones up and down with tablets and injections I finally have my body back to normal and having AF on a regular date every month.
Big decision made.....going for DE. A suitable donor located, £ paid tablets begun and scans had. Now on HRT tabs to turn my hormones upside down yet again to seemingly to put me in a false menopause and to aid thickening lining, scan done lining is 8mm, more HRT and on Wednesday we are back to Create for him to do his sample, the DE will have been thawed all ready for icsi to take place and Thursday they will phone me to tell me if any fertilise.......so fingers crossed  they have a party in that dish!!
If all goes well we have to wait til they get to blastocyst then go down for ET

I will update as we get on

On another note after my scan I bled the tiniest bit afterwards this is not normal as I don't  as a rule and me and he had a bit of erm 'fun time' this evening and there it was again!!  Is it because I'm on such a high dose of the HRT tablets (3 x 1 a day), I'm taking Progynova?
I must comment more instead of lurking! Hope everyone is well x


----------



## Syd72

Second beta is 198 which is a doubling time of around 50 hours.  Too slow I think.  Got to go for another one on Wednesday.


----------



## Anna20162016

Ladies 
I am new to the site, I read through the posts on part 2 last night. 
me I'm 42 nearly 43.  MC last year. Failed IVF from thawed frozen eggs in April.  Cancelled cycle in July. I'm starting again shots today
My AMH is 3.6, I have a low follicle count.  I'm with Care in Ireland.

I'm trying to research clinics that have good success for the over 40s, 
that do PGS testing and that have multiple cycle packages,  I know I'll have to do at least 3 or 4 rounds to try and get a viable embryo.
I have had contact with Gennet however I'm still waiting for a protocol from my meeting over 8 weeks ago,  they recommended Mini IVF, I am not keen as you may or may not get one egg.  last cancelled cycle there was def two eggs with a potential 6 others all under 16 mm.

I also read up on Ovascience Augment procedure, IVF Spain do it but it's on hold.  the only other clincs are in ASIA or Canada and I can't afford to go there. 
I was reading about the stem treatments ladies are referring to here on this thread,  can anyone advise on what this is and how it helps your ovaries? costs and where to get this done. 

I'm looking for alternative options to what I'm doing in case this one is cancelled again.

I'm on Ubiquinol 600 mg/Folic Acid/Melatonin 3 MG/DHEA 100 mg a day ( since may this year )
and a multi- vit.

I'm trying to research Belgium or Denmark clinics, has anyone any suggestions or for any others?

I looked at ARGC London, it's very expensive. 

thanks in advance. x


----------



## dolphinx

*Syd72* if 'normal' doubling time is 31-72 hours that you're right in the middle of that range? Did someone tell you the levels were low or is that your own conclusion?


----------



## Syd72

Dolphin, mostly my own conclusion based on hours searching through this site and looking at the beta base site. Doctors have said consistent with very early pregnancy, trouble is I'm not sure when I ovulated, used to be day 15 but it's been getting earlier and I reckon it's now more like 13, those two days make a difference in how low, or not, the numbers are.


----------



## dolphinx

I can't advise you not to over-analyse everything as that's exactly what I would do. But doesn't sound like you should give up hope. If it was a natural cycle it is very difficult to know your exact dates.


----------



## Syd72

Thanks Dolphin, good advice.


----------



## LuckyE

OMG SYDD!!


----------



## esj

Thats amazing news Syd! Good luck XX


----------



## highlandgirl

Go Syd! Congrats xxxx Sending you positive vibes xx


----------



## Syd72

Thanks ladies, it still hasn't sunk in at all.

Welcome Anna. I can't help with most of your questions I'm afraid as I don't know about PGS testing. Personally I would recommend Serum based on my experience with them although I haven't actually cycled with them, I was about to. I don't think they do pgs testing but I could be wrong. You can organise a Skype consultation with them.

Mini ivf may be worth lookin at as quality is more important than quantity, I've seen it said often that high stims on people with low reserves may produce more eggs but could also be affecting the quality, fewer may be better. 

Ziln gets recomm need a lot, may be worth having a look at them.

The stem cell treatment is a new treatment offered by Serum where they cultivate stem cells from your menstrual blood and inject them back into your ovaries. A few ladies on here have had it done but it's too early to know the results yet, if you search "stem" there's a thread on here somewhere.

Best of luck.


----------



## Laquinn

Hi All,

I am new to the board but have been reading this thread with great interest.

I am 44 turning 45 in two week's time, hubby is 45. I got pregnant naturally twice last year; first a miscarriage at 5wks followed by a stillbirth at 26wks and 4days. Post-mortem couldn't reveal a reason for the stillbirth but early this year I became thyrotoxic. I've been tested for thyroid cancer, tests were negative but they can't rule it out and I have been given two years to get pregnant before they take out my thyroid nodule. My thyroid seems to be balancing out with meds. I saw a Fertility Specialist at Nuffield in Glasgow who said IVF is our best chance and is willing to do it - my AMH is 5.3, hubby has no issues. I started on 200mg of Ubiquinol this month and after getting a normal testosterone test result, I plan to start on 75mg of DHEA. The FS at Nuffield is willing to give us a few months for this to take effect.

We are both self-employed and treatment in Glasgow is very expensive compared to the clinics overseas recommended on this thread. Ignoring the difference in price, do you think it is better to get treated at home or abroad? 

Thank you for all the information - it's a godsend x


----------



## esj

HI All. Sorry lack of personals...I'm about to go back to Serum for round two as a natural supported cycle but scanned today and looks like I might have a cyst as well as a dominant follicle. Penny asked me to scan again Monday then report back. Flights and accommodation already booked for Tuesday so hoping we don't have to cancel. Nothing is ever easy in this game is it? I have not missed all this stress in the couple of months away from treatment.


----------



## LuckyE

Wez – I’m not sure about the bleeding. Ask your clinic. I’m on lots of prognova. I did have one moment where I had some brown and thought I had bled but haven’t seen anything since. I thought it was the lining being unstable. 

Anna – Hi and welcome. I think Syd72 gave you some advice on stemcell. Serum in Greece is doing a trial and results should be in Oct/Nov for them to decide if it’s worth it or not. I’m interested in that, too. 

Laquinn – Hi and welcome. So sorry for your losses. I am a fan of clinics abroad. I would recommend Serum in Greece because they have a very hands on approach to my IVF care  but there are loads of others, lots of people use the Czech clinics – there are so many threads! Personally I think some of the clinics abroad offer more choice for less money than UK clinics.

ESJ –  I hope you don’t cancel either! That’s so frustrating! Why does Peny think it’s a cyst? I’m going out on Tuesday too! No, it’s not easy, is it? In July I flew out – spent a bomb follicle tracking only to have ovulated before I reached Greece. And was taking cetrotide! I was gutted! But now I know what an ovulated follicle looks like!

Syd72 – I’ve seen you on the other threads. Glad things are going well. Am rooting for you!

AFM – I’m out on Tuesday for one of my FETS… Although now I really want to give IVF another couple of goes with OH. Ovulated on Thursday (according to Peny) so OH was keen to BD. He's really hopeful for a natural BFP - bless him.  Anyway, will give IVF another go next month.

Hello everyone else.


----------



## Laquinn

Thanks LuckyE! I'm definitely drawn to Serum - Peny sounds amazing. Did you approach them yourself or through an agency? 

After reading It Starts With The Egg I'd started on ubiquinol this month but I think it's delayed ovulation; AF is 2 days late with a bfn so I'm going to stop it today. I read on another thread Peny doesn't recommend DHEA? Was hoping for the magic bullet the book promised!

Anyone on any supplement regimes that seem to work?


----------



## LuckyE

laquinn - are you sure it's the ubiquonol? I BELIEVE but I'm no authority that's good for mitchochondrial health which helps give the energy to the egg, which is lacking in older ladies. I read that on a thread. Who knows?  DHEA - it's a mixed bag of results - it depends on the person. I took it from about April - June but stopped and got loads of follicules in June but no good eggs. I took it it 2 years ago and I had good results on it. Oily skin etc.  I also had breast pain on it this time. All very different symptoms from  2  years ago. No oily skin or acne. So i stopped it.  I'd listen to your body.

What I'm doing for next month is increasing the ubiquonol to see if that's making a difference and upping protein and good fats, cutting out sugar and a lot of carbs. Not sure if it works but 2 years ago I did a high protein diet. It all could be hogwash though...


----------



## Laquinn

LuckyE - it might be the effect the ubiquinol is having on my thyroid; doing a balancing act with thyroid meds at the moment and Endocrinologist said no to ubiquinol. DHEA is a hormone so think I'll give that a miss too; the risk of wonky cycles doesn't seem to be worth it for me. I got my testosterone level tested and it was normal. 

I've read that a high protein diet can have a really good affect on egg quality. I might try acupuncture again this month too. I went for a fertility massage this month which is supposed to help with egg quality and lining - might give that a go again. Hopefully AF will show up and I can get started again!


----------



## Syd72

Welcome Laquinn, so sorry for your losses.  I've had IVF at Oxford and IUI at Lister.  I visited Serum in July and of the three I felt happiest with Serum.  There were no issues with Oxford or Lister but it did feel very "one size fits all" whereas Serum wanted to to a hysto, do some infection testing and came up with what felt like a more personalised protocol.  I think they're fantastic.  As it happens I've fallen pregnant naturally the month before I was due to cycle but should this pregnancy not work out I will definitely go back to Serum.  No need to go through an agency, just contact them directly.  They all have excellent English and respond very quickly to enquiries.  I would be surprised if the ubiquinol delayed your ovulation - I've not heard that before.  I was on it for a long time and it never delayed anything for me.  I also don't think it really did anything for me, stopped taking it a few months back.  I tried DHEA for about 3 months but didn't like the side effects - made my very moody.  I guess I stopped taking it about two months before my natural bfp so in theory it may have helped, I honestly don't know.  I think for some people it seems to work wonders and for others, nothing.  I also have an underactive thyroid and didn't realise DHEA or ubiquinol had an effect, oops!  My thyroid has been stable for years although a test last week showed I needed to slightly up my dose of thyroxine but I think that could be the pregnancy rather than any supplements I've taken as tests a couple of months ago showed my thyroid was fine. LuckyE mentions cutting out carbs and sugar - I've seen quite a lot to say this could really help, particularly cutting out gluten.  I think it's to do with cutting down inflammation in the body. Sorry, that turned into a bit of a long paragraph!

Esj, uggh, I'm sorry.  Good luck for the scan today - let us know how it goes.

Thanks LuckyE, good luck with the FET!

I hope everyone else is well.


----------



## Laquinn

Thanks Syd72! Congrats on your natural bfp! Wishing you a happy and healthy pregnancy.

Thank you for the recommendation, I think I'll definitely pursue Serum. I read a few people online saying that ubiquinol had caused their cycle to lengthen. I have a thyroid nodule and became thyrotioxic after Christmas but they can only tell if it's postpartum thyroiditus, Graves Disease or a hot nodule by giving me radioactive iodine, which isn't great for conceiving! So the Endocrinologist is keeping me balanced with anti-thyroid meds and said to keep the supplements simple. Our daughter who was born sleeping last year was genetically perfect and they couldn't find a reason for our loss, but perhaps in retrospect it was a thyroid related thing. Have you read anything by Mary Shomon? She has great advice on thyroid issues in pregnancy. 

I got a free consultation with a Cytoplan nutritionist online so I'm on a gluten-free anti-inflammatory diet. CD1 today - fingers crossed for a good egg this month!


----------



## esj

HI Ladies.. 
*Laquinn* welcome and so sorry for your losses. And congrats *Syd72* so happy for you.
*LuckyE* you must imagine how I'm feeling now having gone through similar stress last month. 
I am in a dilemma as the scan today showed the same cyst and follicle so either way we can't stim this month as already on Day 8. Cyst seems to be sue to not ovulating last month.
I could still go and transfer the blastocyst I have frozen but I think its better to just wait until next month and hope that all is back to normal and I can collect something to maximise our chances. Will be a pain to lose tickets and accom but may be for the best.
Waiting for Pennys advice today. Any of your opinions welcome as always.
xxx


----------



## Laquinn

Thanks esj. Hope your dilemma resolves soon - guess I have all this to look forward to starting IVF!
xxx


----------



## esj

Hi All. We decided to sit out this month. Annoying but I think its the right decision. Hopefully the cyst will have cleared up by next month and we can do a collection to add to the frostie we have already. 
Good luck everyone x


----------



## TTCNK

Wow - came back to this thread after a while - Syd72 amazing news - I am keeping everything crossed for you!!!

Anna - PGS - I had it when I went through 2 rounds of IVF at the Lister.    I did PGS due to 5 miscarriages - some chromosomal  and wanted to throw everything at my last ditch attempt at BPF through ivF aged 45.

Cycle 1 - they tested via PGS  3 day 5 blasts and they all came back abnormal so were not put back
Cycle 2 - they never got to PGS as they felt at day 5 the blasts were not progressing well so put them back without testing

PGS confirmed what I suspected - a lot of poor quality eggs at my then age 45.  So whilst it helps you find the good one in a batch you have to prepare to find none.  My situation was more of the exception - the embryologists really thought they'd find one from my Egg collections ( frst batch 12 second 11)

Reflecting back I think that PGS is good if you feel you running out of time and want to find that one!    However  - as per my other posts after 2 rounds of IVF I got my BFP naturally anyway... at 46.. so very hard to know.  I sometimes think that my IVF cleared out some old eggs (23 of them!) and some better ones followed - but I am no scientist! 

Thanks for all the good wishes ladies - sorry I am slow in responding!


----------



## Syd72

Thank you TTCNK.  I had completely forgotten that yours was a natural pregnancy at 46, I really needed to hear that yesterday as I was having a day of thinking I must be crazy believing this could work out.  So thank you, perfect timing!  How are you getting on with motherhood?  How's your little boy doing?

Sorry to hear you're having to sit out esj but I agree, I think it's the right thing to do.


----------



## Wez

Update...
We had 6 eggs, 4 survived the thawing process, partner went down same day of thaw and they performed ICSI.
They phoned next morning to say  2 had fertilised and it was a 5 day wait  to see how they would develop to blastocyst, they said they wouldn't phone until day 3 unless they had failed.
embryologist phoned day 3 to say they were excellent examples and he would see us for the transfer in 2 days.
Travelled down the night before stayed at good old Holiday Inn 

Embryologist said both were grade 1 and were 5aa and 5ba (tbh i have no idea whatvthis means and all google does is confuse me when trying to find out if that was good or bad and if they were just talking jargon) but we're now at hatching stage and one doing so and before I knew it I was in there busting for a pee and one embryo was transferred.
I have been tootling about at home resting and doing nothing more exciting than watching TV and occasionally popping out to 'turn cows', walk sheep up the road etc (I'm a farmer can you tell?)

Sooooo

What are the best symptoms that I should be feeling 3 days away from my blood preg test, I'm a bit narky, crampy every now an then, no spotting as yet, boobs bit tender and I am farting a lot lol.

Does anyone know of a link that may advise me how I should be feeling and if there are negative signs also?  Google loses me and I end up looking at sheep and cattle prices at local auction instead lol

Apologies for long post

Strawberry sundae CMV test is Cytomegalovirus (CMV)  Create test their donors for it to see if they are Neg or Pos carriers, this is a pain as that meant I had to have it too, unfortunately for me I was Neg and therefore I had to have  Neg donor egg supplier.  This makes their search a harder task as there isn't many of us around. Prob another pointless test they found to get money from you, I may be wrong.

I will go away back toxmy corner and shhh for a while now lol 

All the best everyone x


----------



## Syd72

Great news on the top grade transfer wez, congrats! Unfortunately you can tell even less from symptoms after ivf than you can normally because the progesterone imitates a lot of symptoms. Impossible to say how you should be feeling or what is down to the suppplemwnts. So otd is wednesday? Fingers crossed!


----------



## Laquinn

That is heartening to know about your natural pregnancy TTCNK - did you take any supplements to improve egg quality?

Good luck Wes! Great you are a farmer! We are considering Create, Serum and Reprofit for our first round of IVF - would you recommend Create? x


----------



## Wez

Thanks Syd, yes I will be setting off at 3am tonight to get there for my 7.30 am appt for blood preg test, have had no bleeding/spotting but have had slight cramps almost everyday since ET. I have certainly known if I have overdone it at anytime that's for sure.
Fingers crossed for me 

I would recommend Birmingham and St Paul's, London but not Manchester as yet as they are just finding their feet as it's a new clinic


----------



## Laquinn

Sounds very promising Wes! Fingers crossed...

Ah... Manchester was the one we were considering as it's nearest. I showed hubby the promo video for Serum and he was convinced by that but Create have actual over 45 OE success stories on their site. Bursting my head trying to decide... I think we're going to give it a couple of months trying naturally so I can try and get my thyroid levels balanced out and I have an appointment with the Endocrinologist in October.


----------



## highlandgirl

Hello Ladies,
Sorry for the long absence again!
Every time I come back to my thread so much has changed and we have new lovely ladies here to share their story
Syd – congrats on your BFP I am so pleased for you!! Let us know how you are getting on – I know its early days yet but I am praying for you my lovely xx
TTCNK – you continue to be my inspiration and give me hope
Ricks3 – how are you getting on?
Laquinn – Are you in Scotland? I have my treatment at GCRM in Glasgow although I live in the Highlands! You have a good AMH and a good FSH score! Wish I had the same even at 45 
Sorry for the lack of personals for everyone else I will try and pitch in going forward!
I wanted to put it out there that I am 47 on Sunday – eek! WTF happened there? 
I am looking for anyone looking at the thread to let me know of any stories of ladies who have managed a BFP aged 47 or older having no previous children either naturally of via IVF but with OE?
I understand that it is rare however I already understand about DE my friend has DE twins so no need to remind me that option yields a greater chance but DH and I decided from the start we would only have our own biological child
xx


----------



## Syd72

Thanks highlandgirl, nice to see you!  I hear you on the birthday front...  Had a scan on Monday, I thought I was 6+2 but apparently as I have a 30 day cycle I was slightly earlier than that, not sure whether 5+6 or 6.  Saw a gestational sac measuring correctly for around 5+6 and a small yolk sac, nothing else.  My hcg levels slowed down dramatically early last week so I'm honestly not feeling hugely hopeful.  Going for a scan with someone else tomorrow, I know I should probably wait a bit longer but I just want to see what's happening.  The doctor I saw on Monday took AGES to find my uterus, she had exactly the same problem when she did one of my scans last year confirming my miscarriage.  That combined with the fact I had to explain my beta levels to her twice before she realised they were in fact doubling too slowly doesn't fill me with confidence - and she's a gynae.

The only real story I have, although it's a good one, is from a lady on another forum I use.  She fell pregnant naturally at 47, she and her new husband hadn't been trying all that long, had a trouble free pregnancy and a perfectly healthy little boy born when she was 48.  I was also chatting to one of my work colleagues yesterday and she knows a couple of people that have had surprise pregnancies in their late 40s (one shortly after her husband had a vasectomy) and had healthy babies.  So it definitely happens.

If this one doesn't work I'm definitely going the DE route, it has occurred to me several times in the past week or so that I would probably be a lot more relaxed right now if this were a DE pregnancy as I'm assuming any issues (low/slow hcg, no fetal pole so far) are due to egg quality.  I could be completely wrong on both counts of course, everything might be fine and I might not be more relaxed with DE...  Absolutely appreciate DE aren't for everyone.

Remind me what next steps are for you highland? x

Wez, how long will the blood test results take?  In this pregnancy I did notice cramping from around a week before AF was due which I never normally get so hopefully that's a good sign for you.  Looking forward to an update.


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Highlandgirl. Yes, I'm in Glasgow - give us a shout if you're down and fancy a cuppa sometime. I'd love to go to GCRM but cannae afford it! Instinct is leading me towards Create in Manchester; I have thyroid issues and think mild IVF might be better. They also do a 3 round package. But still looking at Serum in Athens. I see the Endocrinologist in October so probably going to approach clinics then.

Syd - I think it's all a bit of a mystery; I've definitely read posts from people in the same position and it all turned out well. I don't know if this helps but some of the ladies on the Sands forum are going to recurrent miscarriage clinics and one was talking about how they're going to treat her with progesterone. I know what you're saying about DE - quite a difference in the odds...


----------



## Super125

hi ladies

i hope you do not mind my posting here as i came to hate success/BFP stories but i put together some notes of stuff that i found helpful for me but i check in on this thread occasionally and was so happy to see the BFPs. I had my rainbow at 44.5 using OE. I also wanted to add that i know of a few women in their late 40s that have had natural and problem free pregnancies. sorry for the long post but hope some of it will be of interest.

March 2016 cycle
Me:
43 [44 in May]
AMH: 7 pmol/L [as at Dec 2014]
FSH: 9.4 iu/L [as at Dec 2014]
First scan [CD7] showed 12 follies responding to meds but only 3 continued to grow at 'retrievable' rate. [The month before I had stimmed for nine days using 300 [comb of gonal f + menopur and jumped into this cycle with no break between]
EC: CD14 - 3 follies drained - one egg retrieved
Protocol: femara 5mg [CD 2-6] & menopur 150 [CD 7-11]
I had a 2DT 6 cell

Him:
43 [44 in May]
Last year a sample was produced at City and frozen - sent over to Gennet to make it easier for me to cycle with them. One sample produced six straws.
The sample used in this IVF:
Noted as 'oligoasthenozoospermia' [recommended in brackets]
Vol: 0.5 [>1.5]
Total Number: 2 [>40]
Concentration: 4 [>20]
Progressive: 25 [>50]
Abnormal sperms: 90 [<70]
Number of round cells: 0 [<3]
Concentration after processing: 0.3

Things I did:
Ate lots of omelettes sprinkled thick with black sesame seeds [great fertility food according to emma cannon] and huge pile of spinach.

Made weekly batch of organic chicken bone broth [my nails became really strong and I wondered what else it could help with my insides] - I just put chicken carcass in big pot covered with water and added what veg I had, gogi berries, ginger and garlic [if to hand] and stock cube and left over night on low setting.

making up yogurt puddings and snacking on 3-5 x p/w: greek yogurt with chia seeds, gogi berries, cocoa nibs and bee pollen [sometimes with honey or jam]

used 'Good Oil' and avocado oil in place of other types

had morning cocktail of organic black strap molasses, Braggs ACV, baobab and MSM powder with warm water. I have had recurring issues with cysts but also very good for inflammation in general. I was also taking serrapeptase on and off months leading up in addition to applying caster oil packs pre ovulation. I did not take this cocktail during the cycle though&#8230;just leading up to it to get my uterus in shape.

Just after Christmas I had six weeks of effectively eating clean [no choc, low carb, high protein, no caffeine, no alcohol] - six weeks was all I could manage.

downloaded app called 'Insight Timer' - its free and really good when you want to stop horrid negative thoughts - I used five minute timer and also listened to some of the guided meditations. I have used most fertility meditations and I found focusing on non-fertility meditations suited me better. I did them other ones to death and they did not bring me my baby and just made me feel even more of a failure for not doing it properly.

Mindfulness - I really liked Mark Williams book on mindfulness and it got me through last year. Its straight forward and he is straight speaking. It sat well with me.

Said to myself "I will handle anything thrown at me" and "if I deal with something terrible today, I will handle it and then make a new plan tomorrow". I wrote down inspiring stuff on bits of paper and stuck in pocket or workbag and read it when I started losing it.

Not that I recommend any of the following but I did this stuff in 2WW and it had no negative effect: no bed rest, walking about 10 miles per day, long days at work, going in bumpy rides in taxis, trams and tubes/trains [and on day of ET], frantic hovering and cleaning, sneezing and coughing fits [I started googling embryo falling out and was reassured that this wont happen], caffeine [only 2 x cups of breakfast tea though]. I really thought it would not work as I found out after ET that partner's sperm sample very poor and that combined with my age and only retrieving one egg etc etc just put me in a negative [more negative than usual] frame of mind.

Took the best quality supplements I could afford:

*Pre EC:*
Some noted above but also:
Ubiquinol COQ100: 500mg-600mg per day [solgar or innopure]
Solgar gentle iron [25mg]
Solgar vit D3 [10,000 iu]
5-MTHR 1mg [Thorne] before than was taking Solgar Folate [1000 mcg]
baby aspirin
solgar B12 [1000 mcg]
solgar Vit E [400 iu]
Terra Nova Prenatal multivit complex [before this was taking another food source pre natal]
Loads of pomegranate juice [the one with the bumpy bottle] - my lining was 12mm three days before EC and had grown very quickly the more of this stuff I had. Also hot water bottles and keeping feet warm.

*Post ET:*
All of the above other than the morning cocktail, COQ10 and Vit E. have introduced a decent omega fish oil but use 'Good Oil' lots too.

*Things I stopped doing:*
[when I refer to my last cycle I am referring to my cycle in mid-2015 when I successfully got pregnant following IVF but found out my little boy had chromosomal issues and I ended my pregnancy]

Micronised DHEA: I did this for about a year on and off prior to other cycles but not for at least 6 months prior to my latest. It caused issues with hair loss - infertility is bad enough without going bald.

COQ10 post EC [continued with this on last cycle but stopped day before EC this time]

Listening to Zita West: I did this, daily Yoga Nidras and 'circle and bloom' recordings during my last and other cycles inc. natural. I stopped doing all stuff that does not sit naturally with me or does not leave me feeling good. I find ZW's voice condescending and sickly sweet [I prefer the Maggie howell one but even that&#8230;..]. I have also tried very hard to do the positive visualisation/manifesting stuff over the years but found it nigh impossible to see myself holding a new-born and how that would feel [and I have done that in real life] but after so much heartbreak it felt painful to even try so I started doing stuff that I do enjoy&#8230;.sewing, watching films etc [Having said all of this at various points throughout the last six years I have gained some benefit from faking positivity at times and even felt happy but after using it so extensively last year and my pregnancy ending the way it did I just stopped this stuff].

Fertility yoga specialist - I used to work with a specialist in london and just find it uncomfortable [I prefer running]. I really liked her though and she promises results "if you commit 100%" but again, if it fails&#8230;its not because of her but because I did not commit 100%. There is enough guilt with this stuff. She said babies souls are attracted to joy&#8230;.how to feel joy when TTC over many years. I could not do this. One thing I did like that I picked up from her was something called 'body testing' so, for example, I use that to decide if certain supplements are right for me. You hold it [say solgar B12] against you chest and ask your higher self if it is right for you. After a while you body will either go forward [yes] or backwards [no] - it takes a while to get this right but it is quite interesting to use it with other things. Also her website is a mine of wonderful info especially about food and the power of changing thought patterns: http://awakeningfertility.com/

Acupuncture/TCM: having spent well over 15K on this and herbs I did not derive any actual benefit I could articulate other than having the feeling I was doing something proactive,,,,actually that was quite powerful because most of the time I felt so powerless. I also liked the little massage at the end on my forehead! Actually I did have acupuncture before and after ET with last cycle but did not enjoy it and was not impressed with practitioner but maybe it did something&#8230;.not sure. Having said all of this I incorporate lots into my routines/diet that does come from my readings/experiences from TCM. I really liked these books: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Healing-Whole-Foods-Traditions-Nutrition/dp/1556434308?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0
And
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chinese-Medicine-Web-That-Weaver/dp/071260281X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1461042968&sr=1-1&keywords=chinese+medicine
there are also some useful bits in the randine lewis book [I used the charts showing acu points here to stimulate them at home using a chopstick at certain points in cycle]:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Infertility-Cure-Ancient-Programme-Pregnant/dp/0316159212/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1461043191&sr=1-2&keywords=fertility+book+chinese+medicine


----------



## Agaamh

@Highlandgirl

My doctor told me lately that one of her patient got a BFP at age 47 naturally after several failed IVFs. And everything is going well. So it is possible.

I do not know any woman personally that have managed a BFP aged 44 or older having no previous children from OE. But,
in my opinion we should consider that majority of women at our age already have children and their family planning is completed. Those women focus on preventing than on ttc.
So most likely we are  the "minority group" due to our age. Therefore, for me all those statistics telling us that over 44 is not possible to manage a BFP and give a birth from our OE is just absolute nonsense. As to get statistically significant result for our "minority group" is quite hard and to obtain results that reflects the reality is even harder.  

all the best for you and all great women on this thread


----------



## Syd72

Great post super, thanks.

Looks like another blighted ovum for me ladies, gestational sac is smaller than Monday and no sign of yolk sac, measuring about a week behind. Will get confirmation next week, that will be end of the OE route for us.


----------



## Laquinn

Thanks Super - I can totally relate to the mindfulness thing; I did circle and bloom when I was pregnant with my angel so no way I can do it now. I tried some fertility meditations but they make the bfns much more difficult. I like the kindness practice on headspace so think I'm going to go back to that. 

So sorry to hear that Syd   My brother-in-law's aunt didn't marry until she was 45 and had many losses before she finally had a baby at 49; they took her into hospital for the whole pregnancy. There are so many positive DE stories on here. Will you go to Serum for a DE cycle?


----------



## esj

*Super125* Thank you so much for sharing your journey and advice with us. Ive been having some bad days lately and its given me some renewed hope.
*Syd72* my thoughts are with you right now sending love. 
XXX


----------



## LuckyE

Super, thank you for your inspirational post. I am low carbing high protein at the moment - 31/2 weeks done. I'll push it through till egg collection - which will be in another 2 weeks... 

The yoghurt puddings sound good as does the insight timer. I really need to stop negative thoughts. 

Sydd - sorry to hear that. Will you take some time out before doing DE?


----------



## Birdsandbees

Hi Super125, I came to this post through searching for info on dhea and hair loss. I stopped it after one week (3x25mg per day) because my hair had thinned significantly already. I stopped it 3 days ago and my hair is still falling out. I've got lots of hair so had some to spare up to a point, but it's still falling out coming up to 3 days after stopping. I've read a helpful post elsewhere about what's happening on a chemical level, but not much of people's experiences. 

Would really appreciate knowing your experience - how long did it take for the hair loss to stop afterwards and how long did it take for your hair to recover? Mines gone weirdly both greasy and course. 

I feel so stupid for taking it. I saw that hair loss was a side effect but in my desperation I didn't really "see" it. Then only saving grace is that I'm discovering the limits I will / not go to in reality. 

B&B


----------



## Syd72

Thanks ladies. Yes, we'll go to Serum. I'll have to take a slight break as I don't know how long cycles will take to go back to normal and I can't get to Greece until mid/end January unfortunately.


----------



## Super125

B&B - sent you a DM

Syd72 - i am so sorry to read your update.


----------



## Lilly08

Hi everyone!
@super125 thank you for sharing your experiences. I couldn't agree more with what you said about guilt. I think we all can relate. I'm glad to know you removed all the negative stuff. Good luck
@syd72 sorry to know your update  sending you love
Happy weekend to you all


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi 

Syd - I'm so sorry to hear your news. I've hear Serum is an amazing clinic and hopefully it will work for you.

Others - hope you are all well.

Take care x


----------



## Blondie71

Aww haven't been on in almost a month and see some highs and lows have happened during that time, syd I'm really sorry things didn't progress 😢 but I believe we have the babies we're supposed to and it's not always the easy route either


----------



## Syd72

Thanks ladies.  Scan on Monday showed a yolk sac but I was just over 7 weeks by then so there should have been a fetal pole, g sac was measuring a good week behind and still smaller than first scan the week before.  Doctor is confident in a miscarriage diagnosis but will scan me next Tuesday for my own peace of mind before medically managing everything.  I started light bleeding yesterday so desperately hoping everything happens naturally over the next few days as I don't want to take the tablets but also don't want to hang around waiting ages for it to happen.

Definitely Serum for DE now, I'll actively avoid trying to get pregnant before then.  Even though this is an "own egg" thread would love to stay on here and keep in touch with you ladies.

x


----------



## LuckyE

Please stay on Sydd. I feel like we're all in this together.


----------



## esj

Hi *Syd72*
So sorry to hear your news.. I hope you are coping OK. Having a plan to move forward must help. I'm pretty sure this will be my last shot at OE also so the next step could be DE with Serum for me too. Please keep us updated with your progress, thinking of you xxx


----------



## Syd72

Thanks ladies.

You're right, having a plan does help, I'm coping much better than last time. I just really want it to happen naturally but it doesn't seem to be so I guess it'll be tablets on Tuesday.

Esj, when are you next out to Serum?


----------



## esj

*Syd72* We're going this Wed. Aiming to do natural supported collection this week but Im not super hopeful considering I don't think Ive ovulated for the past two months. We have a frozen blastocyst which we'll transfer either way. Am actually glad to just be doing something, the last few months have been a weird limbo of waiting to go back so just want it over with. Take care and good luck for the coming weeks xxx


----------



## Syd72

Good luck ESJ!  One of my forum friends, Peanut, is also flying out today - not sure if you're on the Serum October thread, if you are you'll already know that 

My scan yesterday showed everything had mostly cleared naturally, very different last time as I never saw a sac.  My lining was still over the limit at which they provide treatment so I took the pessaries yesterday afternoon, took a diclofenac before I started and it never got worse than "uncomfortable".  Back for another scan on Friday to check I'm completely clear and then waiting for af so I can start planning my next round at Serum.


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## LuckyE

Good luck ESJ! 

Sydd - glad it's all cleared up naturally and you can move on.


----------



## esj

Thanks *Syd72* & *LuckyE* So we've been here a couple of days. not a great start as I had no viable follicles even after mild stim for a few days. kind of expected it based on the results of scan in UK but couldn't face cancelling again. So the plan is to go ahead and transfer the solitary blastocyst we have frozen. They need to build up my lining as i had a really short cycle and no follies so lining thinner than usual. This annoys me more than the follicles as the one thing I'm always told is I have a good lining and did for the previous FETs this year. Fingers crossed we can be successful with this and go ahead with transfer next week. So basically this trip is turning into more of a holiday. Im actually fine with it. Have a lovely airbnb walking distance from Serum, weather perfect and going to Hydra for a few days tomorrow since Im not needed at Serum as much as expected. Ive asked Penny if we can sit down and talk donor eggs with my partner. He always shuts it down when I try and raise the subject as not into the idea but I want him to hear some positive stories from an expert. 
However Im trying to be positive about the one we have! Kind of ridiculous but who knows we could be lucky.


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## Lilly08

Good luck, ESJ! Not sure if we talked before but I would like to send you good vibes.
My husband is like that too sometimes. I guess they just deal with everything in a different way.
This time will be the lucky one!
Crossing fingers for you!


----------



## esj

Thank you! *Lilly08* thats very sweet of you xx


----------



## LuckyE

Hi ESJ - wishing you luck with your transfer. Last month I had an artificial lining done for a FET - didn't work but it's good to know that it's possible to get a lining. 

I know what you mean about not cancelling. Next month if there's only one follicle I'm going for it, too. I'm praying for 3 so I can get to transfer something... OH sperm not good either... so we've been dancing around with trying to get a fresh sample. it wasn't even tested so we don't know if it's better than the one frozen.  OH is like, I've had 3 kids there's nothing wrong with my sperm... yeah 20 years ago! 


OH is the same. He is just fixated on us making a baby. No to any other factors. It's this or adoption...  Penny tells him the facts but I guess he doesn't get it until it happens. 

You could be lucky. I think at our age it is down to luck. Really wishing for your little blast to stick   

I asked Peny about stem cells, she said I still have to wait to try it but it's encouraging as AMHs are doubling in ladies... So if it's 0.1 it's now 0.2 - that type of thing... But by the time I'll try that i'll be 45... So I don't know.


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## Laquinn

Good luck with the transfer esj!

Dipping my toe into this new world of ivf and planning on going for the 3 package mild IVF deal at Create where I see you've been. My partner's the same when I mention DE but I was looking at tandem cycle options for later if we don't have success at Create...


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## LuckyE

Hi All, 

Just to let you know I did an egg collection, got 2 eggs but only 1 fertliized. Its struggling though... if it makes it to day 6 they'll freeze it. Feel a little downhearted but the plus was I got some eggs after increasing Ubiquinol and cutting down on sugar and carbs. ... 

But OH's sperm has high DNA frag so it feels like a mountain to climb at the moment...


----------



## esj

Thank you *Laquinn*, I was happy with Create even though the best I got was a chemical pregnancy but thats just my story. They have plenty of success stories too.
Serum are brilliant, the only downside is the travel aspect although I have made this trip into a nice relaxing holiday which can only help I guess. Just got back from a lovely trip to Hydra where a friend kindly lent us their place. was beautiful.
*Lucky E* praying you get what you want next cycle. And fingers crossed for your existing embryo! My OH did the sperm improving protocol after our visit end of May but I didn't get any eggs this time so we haven't got to see if its made any difference.
Trying to stay relaxed, scan yesterday my lining was 'beautiful' according to gynaecologist, nice to hear something positive for once! Now just monitoring progesterone and aiming for transfer this Friday. Booked acupuncture with them. Need to meditate before then as I know I'll start freaking out about whether its going to survive the thaw etc. 
The stem cells thing sounds promising but I really don't think we can throw any more at this. Im already 45 now and as you say I really think a lot of it is down to luck at this age.
Thinking of you all.
XX


----------



## Syd72

Esj, great news on the scan, everything crossed for this Friday.

LuckyE, that's good that their was an improvement, even if not as much as you would like.  Keep us updated.

Laquinn, glad you've decided on a clinic, when are you starting?

Serum have said I need an aquascan after my miscarriage and they'll check and see if I need another hysto.  They've very kindly squeezed me in at the end of October as I happen to be back in the UK for 3 weeks now but this is my last time here until next April.  Flipping expensive though as I have to go out over half term.  Sincerely hoping I don't need another hysto but also worrying that the implantation cuts won't still be "working" by the time I have treatment in January given they were done at the beginning of July.

Hope everyone else is well.


----------



## Laquinn

Esj, that's good to know about Create - thanks for sharing. Hydra sounds lovely!

Syd, IVF plans are on hold until I see an immunologist; I just feel it's something I have to explore before we go any further. The cost is depressing (!) but I think I would regret not doing it. So we have a consultation and tests booked in for November. There are no reproductive immunologists in Scotland so we have to go to London. It means taking a month off trying naturally but I guess we have to give it our best shot. I was just reading about a woman who had two stillbirths and I want to do everything I can to avoid that. Going to get a HSG next month too.

Everything crossed for your new cycle and hope you have a nice time in the UK.

xx


----------



## LuckyE

ESJ - Good luck for your transfer. I hope this is the one for you! I know what you mean about throwing money at this. We're trying again next month and just putting it back day 3.  But a blast is good! I really hope this is your time. Glad you enjoyed your holiday.

Sydd - I think you can have endo scratches the month before or the same month with penny, it's enough. So don't worry too much. 

AFM - the embie died day 4. Was gutted. Wondered if it was the sperm... but we'll never know. With the sperm factor on top of my age, it's such a steep hill to climb. We're going to give a couple of samples before we fly back and read an article about ejaculating every day to defeat DNA fragmentation so we're doing that. That's all we can do.  OH doesn't want to to TESE and with my age, I'm ready to throw in the towel. 

Anyway, I'm back next month with a natural cycle as we paid for 2 goes. 

We've been in the Peloponnese relaxing and having a nice time. One bad day when we got the news about the arresting embie but otherwise we're okay. for now... this journey sure is tough on relationships.


----------



## Laquinn

LuckyE, so sorry to hear about your embie. Is your hubby taking ubiquinol too? I read that it's supposed to help with sperm too.

Relaxing in the Peloponnese sounds nice. Hope your next round is the one.


----------



## Greyhoundgal

LuckyE (sorry I lurk here to read about you all) so sorry to read that hun. I do think the ejaculating will help. I read somewhere it is  essential that men ejaculate frequently otherwise the sperm is old and more likely to degenerate.  Unfortunately, the whole ivf process often makes us not feel like dtd but you’re OH must carry on regardless   If you see what I mean.....also i second the ubiquinol for sperm. He should take it too. Sorry hun  

Grey xx


----------



## Laquinn

Just had a meltdown at the doctor   I was going for blood tests for my thyroid and some vitamins levels. I'd saw the GP on Friday and she had agreed to them all to my face but not on my notes. When I went to see the nurse this morning it became apparent that the doctor had said I wasn't to get the tests. I'd also asked her for some print outs of test results I'd had after having a stillbirth to take to see a Reproductive Immunologist. The GP had printed out and given me some results that weren't the ones I asked for to fobb me off it seemed. 

The nurses mentioned that you aren't allowed to get tested on the NHS for a private consultation; but the tests I needed were for my basic health (although they are also relevant to fertility). It was mentioned that the cut off age for fertility treatment on the NHS is 43. I was really upset and only after I broke down did they actually do the tests. One of the nurses said she had been through IVF five times and now has two dogs. I told them I felt like I was being judged for having had a stillbirth at 43 and trying again. They reassured me that this is not the case but I am worried that I will feel this way if I manage to get pregnant again. 

Anyone else had similar experiences and if so how did you cope?


----------



## Lardycow

Hi guys.
Some traumatic stuff a lot of you guys have been  through. You are all so strong to keep going. Not sure how you do it.
I'm about to turn 44 and wondering whether I should bother trying ivf again.
I had a successful cycle ages 41 after a frozen transfer but 2 other frozen transfers resulted in bfn. 

My OH doesn't want to try again but I do. Am I crazy at this age? Is it just too fraught with failure and risks? I'm too confused to think straight about it.

I have pcos and a blocked tube and had ohss with previous cycles but not sure that will be a problem now I'm older. 

I was hoping you guys who are going through it would have some advice as to whether you think it's worth trying again. I'd only be going to the UK clinic I went to before as I just can't get the time off work to go anywhere else. Should I just be satisfied with what we have? Am I being crazy? I don't know......please offer some frank and honest advice.

Thank you 
juliette


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Lardycow - congratulations on having a successful IVF cycle. Unfortunately IVF isn't an easy journey to travel along. Lots of downs but hoping it will be worth it for at least one 'up' experience and our own family. 

esj - Sorry your fresh treatment hasn't gone well. Fingers crossed for BFP with the FET. 

Laquinn - I've cycled with Create. Previously with Birmingham then Manchester. Hope your treatment is going well.

Syd - you're very brave and admire you're able to move onto donor eggs. Hope you're ok. 

LuckyE - sorry to hear about your embryo. It's so heartbreaking when they don't make ET.  Hope all goes well on the next cycle.

AFM -  My body went crazy and my levels were high and lining was very thick on day 2 and was worse on day 5 as my E2 dropped rather than increased. Think with the emotional time of my mom passing had an impact on my body, so had to accept it was a bad cycle. The following month I had another IVF using PICIS and another BFN. Was really hoping this was our time. Had a natural modified IVF, starting day 5 to help with my body aiding a natural selection of the eggs. 7 mature eggs were collected. Was over the moon, given the low dose of 150iu of Bemfola and expectation of a maximum of 3 eggs.  With the use of PICIS thought we have a good few embryos for ET and even freeze some. 

Embryolist said eggs looked OK at collection. On day 1 we were told OH frozen sperm seemed ok on initial look, plenty moving around but when the solution was applied as part of the PICIS they weren't attaching, which indicated they weren't going to fertilise an egg.  Despite PICIS we only ended up with 2 embryos that fertilised normally. 2 fertilised abnormally and 3 not at all. We've always been told due to my age that the egg quality isn't going to be great but to now discovered there's problem with the sperm. 

Very very frustrating, given this is the first time anyone has mentioned this. Should we have focused on improving OH sperm? Feel like we've wasted our time, money and emotions. 

Been advised PICIS should address any sperm issue. Still waiting to find out why all eggs weren't fertilised, even if it was abnormally. 

The 2 embryos transferred on day 2 were a grade 1 with 4 cells and a grade 2 with 7 cells. Not sure why they didn't implant. Only used home kit as was away but definitely BFN.

Previously we thought if this doesn't work then we need to start to consider donor eggs. Now I'm not so sure. I understand my eggs won't be fantastic but I'm a good responder. It's raised a lot of questions. Could our problem be the sperm? Is it worth considering donor sperm rather than donor eggs? OH isn't happy I've even mentioned it. I don't want to throw the chance away of using my own eggs. 

Just in case they are other factors I've decided to have tests to explore if an issue could also be with the implantation. OH isn't keen, thinks its throwing good money after bad. Think it's peace of mind that we've exhausted everything route before we look at any donor option. 

Doing lots of reading and discussion with a few clinics on implantation testing.

Hope everyone else are ok.

Take care X


----------



## LuckyE

Thanks guys   Gearing up for the natural cycle. OH is so resistant to taking things without any scientific evidence.... but I'm chipping away at him slowly.

Sunflower seeds - so sorry for the lack of fertilisation I looked at your sig. And it did seem odd in 2016 you had 15 eggs and only 2 fertlilized... Could you ask your OH to try sperm improving protocols before going to DS? Have you ever had a sperm analysis done?

Lardycow - so hard... If you have the money to try in the UK maybe. But maybe just a couple of times to put your mind at rest. It's down to the individual, though. 

Laquinn - so sorry the GP was so awful and lied to you. I have some blood tests done by the GP - the hormone ones and the initial immune ones, thyroid, vit D.  But those blood tests you had seem normal ones you can have anyway. It's so frustrating that GPs are all so different.


----------



## Laquinn

Sunflower seeds - sorry to hear about the set backs  It sounds like sperm analysis and checking out any possible implantation issues would be a good option for you to move forward 

AFM - I see the Reproductive Immunologist in a few week's time. I've been reading Alan Beer's book Is Your Body Baby Friendly? and I tick quite a few boxes for having immune issues so want to get that checked before we try IVF. Will also get sperm analysis too.

Good luck LuckyE! Everything crossed for you 

To be fair the NHS support has been brilliant and that was just a bit of a blip. I think I may have been pushing my luck as to how much testing they'll do for me! Now I know where the boundary is.... The doctor actually phoned me this morning to apologise.

Here's a heartening story for you all if you haven't stumbled across it yet:
https://thegoodshufu.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/how-i-got-pregnant-naturally-at-45/


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi

LuckyE - my OH is the same. He likes to see the evidence to back up the claim.  I've heard more natural the better it is for the egg. I've heard stories of natural conception with older women. Hope it goes well.

Thanks for the advice. My OH frozen some of his sperm earlier in the year after he got diagnosed with lymphoma so we've had to use that for this last treatment. It was only because it was frozen that I pushed for PICSI as I've read not all sperm survive the thrawing. Glad I did as it seems to give an explanation of what's been happening. OH had his last chemo a few weeks ago so depending on CT scan and further SA then a improvement proctocol could help. Think the earliest a SA could be done is December to allow the 3 months. I've got a Skype arrangements with Serum in next few weeks to discuss options. Would love to hear any recommendations for an improvement to SA.

Laquinn - it's a good link. I've read that story previously. It gives me motivation to carry on. Hope it goes well when you see the reproductive immunologist. Have you referred yourself? Who are you going to see? What tests are you having? I've asked Create for tests and waiting for a list of the ones they recommend. I've also asking Serum to run a number of tests as well. 

Hope everyone else is ok. 

X


----------



## Laquinn

Sunflowerseeds - I referred myself to Mr S at the miscarriage clinic in Epsom. He decides what tests you should have based on your history. I've had some of them done on the NHS after we lost our daughter. A fortnight later we'll get the test results and a protocol. 

Is your other half getting analysis and DNA fragmentation too or just analysis? 

I'm wondering if we'll need tested for infections. We had tests on the nhs prior to conceiving our daughter and I did a Cannestan BV test today which was clear. I guess a clinic would probably do those tests before cycling?

X


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Laquinn, 

OH will get another SA done in a few months. Think the chemo needs to be out of his body before the NHS will test him again. I asked Create about doing a DNA fragmentation and doctor advised that it will damage the sperm they test and it can't be used again, given we are using frozen sperm and can't get anymore fresh for a while, the solution to resolve the issue would be IPCSI. Not sure why the IPCSI didn't filter the 'bad' sperm. I've asked and waiting for a response. 

Not sure if we are still going in a few months that it will make a difference. I would welcome advice on this.

I'm having infection test via Serum, using period blood. I've been advised by them it doesn't always get picked up with regular tests. I'm sure those who have more experience of Serum or the test can advice better. I'm just trying to cover all basis, especially given we are considering donor eggs. 

I'm not sure if clinics would do the test. I've not had it done with any of the ones I've had IVF with. Maybe you need to ask. 

What tests are you having? 

X


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Sunflowerseeds,

Not sure what tests Mr S will recommend for us but I'm pretty sure he'll test TNF alpha, NK cells and T3. I've already had APS, ANA and ENA panels as well as thyroid hormone and antibodies. Next month I'm going to get hormones and a HysCoSy done and semen analysis for other half. I'll ask Mr S what he thinks of the period blood tests - you can post them off for testing can't you?

Then if we get through all that (!) I'll get in touch with Create. How are you finding them so far?

X


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Laquinn,

I posted mine to Greece. It's not there yet so fingers crossed it gets delivered. Was advised the blood with be ok for a few weeks, providing it's not too hot. Think it should be ok this time of year. Serum has asked that I visit for the other tests as it needs to be fresh blood. 

Create wasn't too keen on me having the TNF Alpha test, they say they is little evidence to back up its use but it's one of the tests that the Miscarriage Association undertake so I've asked for the equivalent test. 

I've cycled with Create earlier in the year at Birmingham. The clinical staff was good but the admin was a nightmare. Made the whole experience very stressful. Due to my OH's illness we were restricted to a UK clinic. Initially we were only going to have a follow up call with Dr T in the Manchester clinic but liked his approach and also the admin there is vastly improved. The other staff there are also good. The only thing we're not keen on is when we asked a query, ie which implantation tests? we have to chase to get a response. That's frustrating. 

Both times I've cycled with them we've had 2 embryos but sadly no BFP, hence the tests. 

When's your appointment with Mr S, where is he based? 

X


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Sunflowerseeds,

That's good to know about Create; Manchester is closer to us so that could work out well. That's good to get 2 embryos - was that with a mild or natural cycle? Hopefully these tests will get you a bfp next cycle. 

Our appointment with Mr S is in two and a half week's time. He's based in Epsom. 

Our plan is to go for the three cycle package deal at Create then onto a donor egg abroad if that doesn't work.

X


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Laquinn, 

I heard some where they may have had a revamp of admin/back office staff at Birmingham. Think that will make a difference.

Both cycles with Create have been modified natural. First one was with 40mg of Tamoxifen every day and then 150iu of Gonal F every other day, starting on day 2. I had lots of follicles at start then near EC just 4 took off and it was only 3 eggs retrieved.  Last one treatment I started meds started on day 5 with 150iu of Bemfola every day. My body responded like a mild IVF. The previous month my body was acting weirdly with hormones levels, not sure if this made a difference on the response. Not sure if my body would do this again. Preferred latter treatment. Think we'll go for that option if cycle with them again. 

What treatment are you looking at? 

X


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Sunflowerseeds,

I was thinking mild ivf but will be lead by Mr S and Create. I'm seeing my Endocrinologist on Tuesday and will ask his advice too; I imagine if he suggests anything he'll suggest short protocol to avoid messing with my thyroid hormone too much. Are Create good at leading the way?

Have you had your hormone levels tested? I'm keen to get mine tested. There's so many stories of older women conceiving after they start HRT. This one's a bit extreme! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-480591/HRT-triggered-pregnancy-worlds-oldest-mum.html

I was having regular acupuncture after we lost our daughter and the acupuncturist kept suggesting I take asprin and progesterone cream but the GP and Obstetrician said no. I wonder if this could have actually worked by treating immune issues and hormone imbalance...

X


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Laquinn, 

Both mild and modified natural are short protocols. Create normally given options for you to consider and advice of their recommendations. It's also best to do some research yourself as it helps to select treatment or extras, ie ICSI and aid your conversation with Create. As I said they are a bit slow to come back with further information if they don't know it at the time.

I had my hormones tested initially a few years ago then at the beginning of each cycle. I've heard of a woman at 59 conceiving naturally after taking supplements to help with menopause. 

I've had Accupunture for about 18 months. It was ok but don't think it did anything for me.  Heard it has for other people. Also tried baby aspirin which helped a little with my acid reflux and think my blood flow. Not sure if it had any impact on my hormones. 

Hope your appointment on Tuesday goes well and good luck for when you see Mr S.

Take care X


----------



## Laquinn

Thanks Sunflowerseeds.

I had a fertility massage a couple of months ago and felt pretty good after that. I guess anything that relaxes you and improves blood flow is good. I can't afford too many extras now with all the immune testing!

There's a new lady on this thread here also cycling with Create: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=384546.msg7138450;topicseen#new

X


----------



## miamiamo

@Sunflowerseeds - I have no dir experiences, however two friends of mine had acupuncture and got pregnant.


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi 

Laquinn - I've used to have fertility massages and they are relaxing. I also used to do self care massages in between the session. I conceived naturally after the first few sessions. Sadly it not seem to help after that. Think other factors are at play. All the 'extras' all add up. It becomes very expensive.  It's very individual. You have to do what's best for you. 

Miamiamo - I'm sure it works for some people. My Accupunturist treated a few ladies who had become pregnant. It just didn't seem to work for me.  Sadly it added to my anxiety when each month we hadn't conceive I had to say it aloud that I wasn't pregnant to my Accupunturist and also my OH questioning the benefits and costs. It was just one less thing to pay for and remove some stress. Really hopes it works for others.

X


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Sunflowerseeds and Miamiamo,

The best thing for me at the moment is mindfulness. I got the Headspace app which costs the equivalent of two accupuncture sessions for a whole year. Doing the kindness meditation works well; it's just having the discipline to keep doing it...

X


----------



## Lilly08

Hi ladies.. hope you are doing well. 

I've tried mindfulness too and it helps. I would like to suggest The Mindfulness Book: Practical Ways to Lead a More Mindful Life by Martin Newman. It helped me a lot.
I tried acupuncture and it didn't work for me. Massages worked better to control my stress and anxiety. Each woman is different so I guess we just need to find what works for us.
xx


----------



## esj

Hi All. Tested today and just got the results. BFN. Its so painful even though I was fully expecting it. Feeling defeated and pretty hopeless now. Might consider donor if I have support of OH, if not looks like the end of treatment for me.


----------



## Syd72

Esj, I’m so sorry x


----------



## esj

Thank you xx *Syd72*


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Sorry to hear your news esj.

Sending a massive hug.

Take care X


----------



## Laquinn

So sorry to hear that esj  xx


----------



## LuckyE

So sorry ESJ


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Sorry esj   It’s so unfair  

Grey xx


----------



## esj

Thank you so much for your words of support *Sunflowerseed* *Laquinn* *LuckyE* *Greyhoundgal* 
It means a lot. Just getting through the day right now and will think about moving forward when we are both ready.
Love to all xxx


----------



## LuckyE

Hiya

Hope everyone's okay. 

I skipped a period so I had a scan to reveal a massive cyst on my right ovary. (I was having really weird symptoms - sore nipples but I knew I wasn't pregnant but I still hoped for a miracle... ) Anyway, Penny is putting me on the pill for a month to sort it out and then we'll see if I can cycle after that. 

Wish there was more good news on this thread


----------



## Syd72

Me too LuckyE, there's not been an awful lot lately!

I could use some advice if anyone has any thoughts.  I had a hysto with implantation cuts in July at Serum ready to do my DE cycle in October, then of course screwed everything up by falling pregnant in August and miscarrying in October...

I went to Serum for an aquascan this week, all was fine but as I'm now not cycling til January, 6 1/2 months after they hysto, they are suggesting I go in for another hysto with cuts in December.  I suggested perhaps I should just cycle in December instead although that's not ideal timing-wise for me but Dr Meridis basically said the hysto has a sliding scale of usefulness and although they say it lasts 6 months they really advise cycling in the first 1-2 months.

If I was based in the UK I wouldn't hesitate but things are incredibly tight financially right now and I'm not sure I can justify flying over from Hong Kong twice in quick succession.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?  Should I just suck it up and do the two flights?  Or is the benefit not enough to justify?

Thanks all x


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi

Likewise, hoping we start with getting some good news for us all.

Syd - are the cuts to help with implantation? I thought you seem to conceive ok but been advised that the issue is egg quality? What have Serum advised are the benefits?  Can I just ask, have they tested that your OH's sperm doesn't have DNA fragmentation? My OH spermicide isn't good so I've been reading this can also impacts on an embryo/pregnancy progressing. Could be wrong but it be great to know they are covering all corners for a successful outcome. 

X


----------



## Syd72

Hi Sunflower.  Yes, the cuts are to help with implantation and the hysto is just a general check and "tidy up" of the womb - it shows any inflammation and I had a slight tube blockage last time which she thinks the hysto cleared.  You're right, I do seem to conceive ok, and implantation doesn't appear to be a problem - my first miscarriage a year ago was at 8 weeks despite no development from 4 weeks(ish).  They have tested oh's sperm, including dna fragmentation, and it's all good.


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Syd, 

It may be worth having it done to check all ok in your womb. Could you have the procedure in HK? 

X


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Syd,

What about a hysterosalpingogram or HysCosy done locally? Robert Winston reckons an HSG test is more effective than hysterscopy...

X


----------



## LuckyE

Yeah. I think implantation isn't a problem for you.


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Syd, I had almost same as you - hysto July, ivf Oct, miscarriage December.....I had another hysto on Valentine’s Day (how romantic), ivf June and our twins are the result....so from my point of view I’d recommend it  

Lucky - cyst sounds horrible  

Grey xx


----------



## musee146

Hi Syd, I've haven't been on in a while but read your post and thought I'd chime in.  I had two BFN after my first pregnancy and went for the hysto in Feb then had a fresh cycle in May and got pregnant with my rainbow baby.  I would also recommend doing it.  HTH


----------



## Syd72

Thanks for all the advice ladies, I’ve decided to just do it, all booked for December.


----------



## Laquinn

Good luck Syd!

I've just booked a HysCosy for next month. Definitely getting the painkillers booked in! 

Had to have a month off trying naturally this month to get immune testing done next week. Has anyone else had immune testing? 

Hope all are well x


----------



## Syd72

Ah don't worry about pain, it's done under general anaesthetic  I needed a to up when I came round and that was it.


----------



## Laquinn

With HysCosy they just tell you to take a couple of painkillers   Might go for hysterscopy if we go for IVF...


----------



## Syd72

Ah sorry, I was getting confused.


----------



## lechatgris

I can relate to this so much. Just turned 45 and terminated an unplanned pregnancy at 40 due to a partner that turned abusive and said he would kill himself if I kept it, a decision I regret every day. I always thought I would be a mother. I never imagined I would be 45, alone, and childless. This is my one and only shot to have a baby, so I understand how much is wrapped up in it, especially at our age and the loss of previous pregnancies.



jools70 said:


> Hi ladies, this is going to be a long post i will try to cut details as much as I can.
> 
> My partner and I fell preg when i was 18 we decided to terminate, we split at 21, in that time we both met other people didn't work out he had a child, got back together 30, fell preg a year after, he said it was not the right time, stupidly i regretably went along and terminated the pregnancy, we bought a home and wanted a family now, nothing happened, 5 year later nothing, fertility clinic said nothing wrong with either of us, but, had fertility treatment, own eggs. Preg with twins first time, lost first at 8 weeks, second told the baby had downs and possibly pataus. Decided to terminate, at 21 weeks had to go through everything child birth etc, very distressing.
> Two years later moved home fell preg naturally, lost baby at 9 weeks.
> I'm 46 now, I always saw myself having children. My stepdaughter is amazing but not mine, I long to feel that unconditional love I hear so much about.
> We don't have the money for private treatment.
> My life is a mess as I can't cope with my losses.
> Spoke to a councillor but very unhelpful.
> Has anyone gone through anything similar?
> Xx


----------



## Syd72

Ok so I'm starting to stress now about my period not showing after my miscarriage.  When I had my aquascan at Serum two weeks ago (13 days to be exact) he confirmed that I had ovulated as there were two corpus luteum yet still nothing other than the odd tiny amount of spotting randomly over the past week.  Absolutely no way I can be pregnant so it's not that.  When I miscarried at 8 weeks the first time my next period was bang on time, sort of assumed that would happen again...

Honestly, spent a week worrying it would start too early and now worrying about how late it's getting.  I'm trying to work out timing for my Jan donor round and could really do with it starting in the next day or two.

Sorry for the me,  me, me post.  Hope everyone else is ok.


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Syd, 

Sorry you've got the additional stress. If your af is late you may be able to induce its start, i.e. could Serum prescribe you progynova? Or I've read they're a few natural remedies. 

Hope it arrives soon. 

Good luck x


----------



## Blondie71

Hope it all starts asap for you Syd 🙏 the stress of this timing business is one of the hardest aspects


----------



## Blondie71

Btw I recommend the hysto too x


----------



## esj

*Syd72* How annoying its so stressful when your cycle doesnt go according to plan. Mines become much more irregular over the past year. Ive heard Agnus Castus is good for regulating cycles... haven't tried it myself yet though.
xx


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Syd. I've read that ground sesame seeds can bring it on and ginger, turmeric and peppermint tea can help with flow x


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Syd, I know it doesn’t help to say but do try to relax as stress is a known cause of delayed period....I can’t talk as I’ve started every ivf treatment I’ve had late because of stress delaying my period  

Hugs

Grey xx


----------



## Syd72

Thanks ladies, panic over, it started this morning   Can now start planning properly for my cycle, doing this from Hong Kong isn't the easiest...

Grey, I did wonder if it was stress but I've had so many incredibly stressful things happen in the past couple of years (non-ttc related) and I've always been like clockwork.  Maybe stressing about AF is what stops AF 

x


----------



## Laquinn

Good to hear Syd. There's nothing worse - AF went missing for weeks when my thyroid went wonky earlier this year  x


----------



## Syd72

I have an underactive thyroid but luckily it hasn't ever affected my periods - could have affected everything else but periods have always been completely regular


----------



## Laquinn

Are you on Thyroxine Syd? Think I'll eventually become underactive if I have Graves Disease... 

I see the reproductive immunologist tomorrow. Someone said to expect to give 18 vials of blood!


----------



## Syd72

I am on thyroxine, have been for a few years now. I can’t imagine why you would have to give 18 vials of blood! I never had to do that at the GP in the uk nor with the endocrinologist in Hong Kong.

Good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## Laquinn

Appointment went well. 18 vials of blood taken  I get the results in two weeks time. I'm on low dose asprin and extra vit D along with a prental and Omega 3. Hubby is having SpermComet test done. 

The plan is to do stimulated cycles. Fingers crossed I don't have any scary/expensive immune stuff going on x


----------



## Lilly08

Hi everyone! Good luck @Laquinn and @Syd72!


----------



## Laquinn

Thanks Lilly!   HyCosy tomorrow   GP told me to take 800mg of Ibuprofen. Fingers crossed it's clear. I also get my estrogen LH and FSH blood results back so fingers crossed for them too.

How are you getting on?


----------



## lechatgris

Are any of you over 45 also single? I am going to do one try (cannot afford to do more if it doesn't work), and am currently waffling between going to Cyprus and Denmark. I wish I could go to this Serum clinic, but Greece doesn't seem to allow non-anonymous donors, and since I do not have a partner, I definitely want the option of having my potential child contact the biological donor father when he/she turns 18, if he/she chooses. So I think that rules Serum out for me.
Also, are those of you over 45 all doing PGD? I have read that doing PGD on the embryo can potentially cause it to stop developing, so if you have a low number of embryos this may risk losing one or more. However, at our age, genetic abnormalities are more likely, so I am really confused about what the better route is- PGD or no PGD (and then test at 11 weeks, which runs the risk of having to decide on a potentially heartbreaking termination.) What have you all decided?


----------



## lechatgris

Anna20162016 said:


> I'm trying to research Belgium or Denmark clinics, has anyone any suggestions or for any others?


I also am looking at Danish clinics, so would love any information on which are best for women over 40, which are most affordable, etc. Thanks!


----------



## Syd72

Hi lechatgris.  I'm afraid I can't help with your questions as my partner and I are going to Serum.  It may be worth you asking on the over 50s thread, it seems to be a bit more active than this one at the moment and I know there is at least one lady on there that's single.  They seem really friendly and welcoming and have a lot of knowledge.  Best of luck.

Laquinn, how did the hycosy go?  And all the blood test results?  I still can't believe they took 18 vials!

Thank you Lilly.

Hope everyone else is doing well.


----------



## Laquinn

HyCoSy went well Syd - painkillers worked thank God!    It's the closet thing to drinking I've experienced in quite a while  

Reassuring to see the dye go round the tubes and uterus get the all clear. I'm still bleeding a bit though so think it might affect my cycle this month. I've lost a stone this month so that might affect it too; I found out I was overweight at my Endocrinologist appointment so since then I've got a fitbit and started doing from couch to 10k. 

I get my CD3 blood tests back today then immunes tomorrow - so fingers crossed for all that   Hubby has to have STDs tested before they'll do the SpermComet test for him. I think because our late loss was unexplained and there's so many autoimmune conditions in my family (I probably have Graves Disease) they had to test a lot! Really hope they're clear or nothing too scary or expensive  

Au naturel this cycle - praying for a lucky egg!    

How are you getting on?


----------



## lechatgris

Hey all,

Has anyone here tried Mini IVF (aka low stimulation IVF)? I read that this is particularly promising in women over 40. There is a clinic in Denmark that does it. I just don't know what is smartest. It certainly is less expensive. This article claims it is twice as effective for women 35-45 than conventional IVF. Thoughts? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2463640/mini-IVF-boosts-chance-getting-pregnant-half-price.html

Also, I got my hormone levels back today, and felt a little deflated, even though I knew at my age (just 45) I shouldn't expect to have the ovaries of a 30 year old. Weird that I had this secret wish they'd be like, "Wow! We have never seen these levels in someone as old as you! Perfect." LOL, NOPE. I am indeed, a 45 year old woman. Apparently my AMH is low, according to the doctor. But do any of you who have been through this already have a clue what these numbers actually mean? I asked her if she thought I would be able to do IVF with my own eggs, and she said she had no idea (she's my gyno at home, not the Danish IVF doc.)

Does anyone know what these levels mean? Have any had around these levels and been able to use their own eggs? I am completely clueless.

TSH 3.0
Free T4 13
Prolactin .435
LH 3.2
FSH 10
Estradiol 120
AMH .59

Thanks, anyone who can help!


----------



## LuckyE

Hi Lechtgris - from what I can see FSH is good. You're not in menopause land. I THINK that's under 12 is okay. I've had 15 and that's not good.. 

AMH is low if its 0.5. But you can still get eggs. Just depends. I did IVF with a low AMH - 0.7 but I was 42 then and I haven't yet transferred them so don't know if they'll work. 

Not sure about the other figures. 

If it's cheap in Denmark and you're thinking about it. I'd go for it so you don't have regrets.


----------



## lechatgris

Thank you for your helpful feedback. I know the AMH is low, but hopefully it is not so low that I won't be able to get any healthy eggs. I knew the chances were good at 45 that my eggs would be diminished and walking with a walker.


----------



## Laquinn

Hi lechatgris. I think TSH should ideally be around 1.0

I'm the opposite to you - I have an AMH of 5.3 and a FSH of 30!   FSH was 7.7 back in August so need to get it retested...  If it keeps coming back high over the next couple of months I'm moving on to DE.

The Reproductive Immunologist I'm seeing said there was no point in doing IVF with OE at my age; if my FSH comes back down we're doing ovulation induction instead. Now I also have autoimmune complications so have to wait a couple of cycles for the meds to work


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Laquinn, 

Sorry to hear about the change in your levels.

What test did you have done with Dr G? Is ovulation induction where you're given meds to release more than one egg? 

Lechatgris - I've had mild IVF and prefer this approach rather than taking high doses of meds. My last cycle I got the same number of mature eggs with 150iu of Bemfola than with very high doses of 375iu of Merional.

X


----------



## Laquinn

Thanks Sunflowerseeds. Hoping I can get them down over the next couple of months...

I'm seeing Mr S. He did loads of tests - 18 vials of blood! I tested positive for ANA's and thyroid antibodies; I got tested for Lupus today. If my FSH comes down we'll do Letrozole with a trigger shot. 

X


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Fingers crossed for getting your levels down Laquinn and you're FSH starts to behave. Will they monitor you when you're on letrozole? Or will it be based on you testing for a LH surge? X


----------



## lechatgris

Hi Laquinn, 

I don't think anyone can say someone our age shouldn't try with OE as a flat rule. I mean, I know people who had "oops" babies at 46, so it just depends on each woman's body. 
Also, your shifting levels make me wonder how completely reliable these hormone tests areas a predictor of fertility. I feel like our bodies fluctuate much more than they believe, and that getting pg is just a matter of all the factors aligning at the same time. There have been so many women who have been told there was no hope, who randomly one day get pregnant, and it is a mystery what suddenly made it possible. I think yes, pay attention, but don't treat doctors' proclamations as the absolute final word, because they are actually just giving an educated opinion based on statistics. 

Sunflower- I really love reading that your success was the same with high and low stim. That helps me decide. I am almost sure I want to try low stim.


----------



## Laquinn

Thanks Sunflowerseeds. Yes, the plan was to scan around ovulation and do a trigger shot; although a lady on this thread got her baby by using some left over letrozole from Mr S without scanning or a trigger shot. How are you getting on? X

Thanks lechatgris - I agree and plan to buy that book Inconceivable today! I'm buying into Mr S 100% whilst he's treating me though as there's too many variables at stake; my ANA result was strongly positive so I definitely have an autoimmune condition like Lupus which makes my body extremely baby unfriendly without treatment. I couldn't put my poor hubby or me through another late loss...  

Anyone have any tips to lower FSH? Can't use anything like vitex because of my thyroid issues so thinking about diet, exercise etc...


----------



## lechatgris

LaQuinn, 

I have only heard of a friend whose FSH dropped after acupuncture. Do you take folic acid every day?


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Laquinn, 

Think DHEA may also reduce your FSH but I know it doesn't agree with everyone. You may need to research it to see if it's an option for you.

AFM - I had some immunology tests done with Create Manchester.  Some 4 weeks and others 3 1/2 weeks ago. Had results for 3, which are normal but had a call a few nights ago to say I need to repeat the natural killer cells test as they put the sample in the wrong bottle and the testing clinic wouldn't accept it. Clinic advises it's not their fault as they used what was sent. I've asked for a refund and now having to chase for a response. Got an email with test results for Chicago level 2 but no explanation of results and completely missing one results. Again chasing.

Starting to think it was a mistake using them. 

In the meantime I'm exploring options with Serum in Greece. My OH wants next cycle to be the last with my OE and thinks we should consider moving to DE if it doesn't work. If we use DE I would like the option for the child to find details on the donor once there's 18. Everyone is different but feel it's my responsibility to ensure its an option. 

Serum have advised I've got hidden c and I've booked for a hysteroscopy but my OH isn't keen on me having the procedure or use cycle there. He thinks every clinic is much the same and not sure what they can offer that will be any different to other clinics. I can kind of see his point as currently feeling we could have additional costs to travel to Greece just for the same outcome as before. Would really like to find a good UK clinic. Had hope in Create but fed up with chasing, think it would be different it they show some innovation. 

Ideally we want to has treatment again in January so we need to decide in next few days of who we progress with. 

In the meantime, had good news that OH doesn't have to have any further chemo. Would like to test his sperm to see if his fertility has come back but not sure about the dna fragmentation so don't think we can try naturally again. Not that it's made a difference before.

Hope everyone else is good X


----------



## Laquinn

Lechatgris - I take folate every day and my folate levels are excellent. I've got some fertility massages booked which some claim to have a similar effect to accupuncture. Started on the wheatgrass powder today!

Sunflowerseeds - Don't think I can risk taking DHEA with my thyroid issues.

That's a shame your experience of Create hasn't been good. Before I saw the immunologist I had contacted them and they eventually answered my enquiry weeks later when we'd decided to go down the ovulation induction route. Some people seem to have a great experience of Serum; we have decided on Prague if we go down the DE route. That's fantastic news that your OH doesn't need further chemo. You can't get your husband's sperm tested? X


----------



## TTCNK

Hi Laquinn - was checking no this thread as I do every so often to see how things are going.  I am that lady who uses leftover Letrozole from Mr S... currently feeding my 4 month old baby boy - delivered by Mr S  Wishing you all the best with Mr S - he is amazing!


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Laquinn and TTCNK, 

Please can you remind me which clinic and doctor we've used? Create has rang to advise a few of my Chicago level 2 results are high. The recommendation is to have intralipid which they don't do. They are suggesting doing steroids and clexane which I've used before and hasn't worked. Very frustrating. 

Also TDL messed up with 2 tests the samples hence missing results so they need to  be done again.

If I have to be treated with intralipid then not sure how easy it would be having treatment via Serum. 

TTCNK - hope all's well with your baby.

All - take care X


----------



## Laquinn

Thanks TTCNK! Wonderful to hear about your boy. Mr S is amazing - I have a lot of faith in him. It's been a tough couple of days getting an answer for our so far unexplained late loss but a relief too. I really hope my TSH comes down so I can get on the Letrozole! 

Sunflowerseeds - Mr S is at the crp clinic in Epsom or Harley Street. They do intralipids there - I have to get some if I get a bfp X


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Thanks Laquinn, 

Thought you had to have intralipid before as well as during pregnancy or is that just for some conditions? Does Mr S also do ivf or is it just induced ovulation? 

Thanks x


----------



## lechatgris

So, I had an antral follicle count done by my gyno here (3 on one side, 2 on the other, she said, but she didn't seem to look very long or hard). I also talked with the Dr. at the Copenhagen Fertility Clinic, where I am going to try low-stim IVF in January. Feeling rather hopeless, actually. He said I would have less than 10% chance at my age, and the news is *even worse* when I Google 45 year old using own egg. According to several articles, I have a 0% chance. So I would LOVE any positive examples/evidence of women at 45 getting pregnant and carrying to term with their own eggs. Am I deluding myself? I keep thinking that because I accidentally got pregnant at 41 from one single time of not using protection, and not actually having been diagnosed infertile (I haven't had a partner since that pregnancy at 41 with whom to try- he left me because of the pregnancy), that maybe my chances will be higher, but I only read very poor prognoses for my age. Any success stories, or am I about to throw thousands of euros away for nothing? Feeling very depressed.


----------



## Flyby

I had success at 44 with Serum in Athens and there were a couple of others who had success with their own eggs while I was cycling at age 44 and 45, one had twins and the other had a singleton. They were on here, I think one was called Justineb and the other was HMB. This has happened many other times at Serum so it’s very possible, but obviously for many people takes longer to happen. Mine worked on the fifth IVF, but I would have kept going as far as finances would allow until it worked. I worked with a child who’s mother got pregnant at around 50 unintentionally after having four grown up children...she was very shocked and had a healthy girl. I don’t see how they can get accurate statistics as so many less people are trying for children in their mid-late forties so how can they know how likely it is to work....and as for 0%, that’s just stupid because of course it’s possible 🙄. Good luck, try not to get put off by negative, inaccurate opinions xx


----------



## Laquinn

Lechatgris - have you read inconceivable by Julia Indichova? It's very inspiring and encourages you to reconnect and listen to your own body rather than fertility 'experts'. I got pregnant twice last year and would have had a healthy baby girl now had I known about my autoimmune condition...

Flyby - that is very encouraging. Would you recommend clomid banking? xx


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Laquinn, 

I’ve not read that book. Have you read the Alan Beer’s book ‘Is your body baby friendly?’ Just got it. It’s very interesting on immunology. 

Been exploring treatment at Serum but had one of my immune tests came back high on CD19 and CD56 so exploring issue there first. 

Hope everything is going well with your treatment 

X


----------



## Flyby

Laquinn, yes it’s definitely worth a try as it’s the only thing that worked for me...it gave me much better embryos, I had blastocysts to freeze very time, whereas when I injected never had any.


----------



## Laquinn

Sunflower Seeds - Yes, I've read the Alan Beer book and agree it's very interesting. My consultant gets a mention in it and shares a lot of Alan Beer's approach to immune issues. I was clear for NK cells but tested strongly positive in the ANA panel which means I have  a connective tissue autoimmune condition like Lupus. Mr S did some more tests to narrow it down and to figure out if I have Graves Disease or Hashimotos. He's started me on medication for Lupus so we can't try again 'til January. So glad we went down this route to try and spare ourselves the heartache of another late loss. The only thing is my FSH has shot up to 30 (!!!) But I've been reading that the autoimmune condition can 'cause this so just trying to lower it through diet, exercise and meditation. Julia Indichova got pregnant with her baby with an FSH of 30.

How are you finding Serum?

Flyby - Is it expensive to do clomid banking?


----------



## highlandgirl

Hello Ladies!
Firstly I have been keeping an eye now and again but haven’t had the chance to post in a long time  my last post was on 20th Sept! WTF! so sorry 
I can’t believe it’s now been over a year since I started this thread and my journey so much has happened to us all its crazy!
I want to say hi to all those who have joined us since my last post and thank you for joining all the other wonderful supportive ladies on here – we all want the same thing… 
I am not even sure where to start with personals so I am sorry if I miss you out please keep posting and I promise I will try to keep in the loop this time…!
Syd – Please fill me in on your next plans – I think I read that you are going to Serum? When and what the options for you now Syd? You still have a good AMH will you try again with OE? x
Laquinn – You seem to really have taken the bull by the horns you should be very proud of yourself with all the investigations I am sure you will succeed! FYI I did 2 rounds of monitored Letrozole with an Ovitrelle Trigger got better AFC & lining results than with Clomid which really messed my cycle up and I did not like  I have had my FSH retested was 10 now 16.7 however I know it changes every cycle so I am not so worried about that? PS Im off for a HYCOSY on Friday – wish me luck! Lol x
Lechatgris – Welcome to our fantastic group! I believe you should never give up until you are ready and leave no stone unturned so go for it! - I think you are thinking about PGS testing as opposed to PGD which is for genetic disorders. PGS is where the eggs are screened for abnormalities – this is not an area I have any experience in however I have seen a number of ladies use PGS after banking a number of eggs and then testing in the hope of finding one aneuploidy / good egg? You also may want to check your TSH is 3 which is a bit high? This is your thyroid and you might need to see if that is an issue? x
Sunflowerseeds – How are you and what is your next step? Have you decided where to go next?x
Esj – How are you my lovely? What is the next step for you? Stay in the game leave no stone unturned x
Flyby – As always thank you for your encouraging words and support x
Lilly08 – How are you my lovely? Whats new with you? What are your plans? X
LuckyE – Hows things? Whats your plans now? X
Lardycow – Not sure if you are still reading but as I have said already …Stay in the game leave no stone unturned don’t give up until you are ready to x
Super125 – What an amazing post you gave us and I am not sure if I ever thanked you so THANK YOU 
Birdsandbees – Again not sure if you are still here let us know if you are?


Anyone else out there feels like pitching in feel free?
AFM – Not sure where to start really so here goes:-
I have had 5 different consultations from experts all over the world and still here we are trying to catch that elusive golden egg…
We have been trying naturally for the past couple of months after 2 rounds of monitored Letrozole with Ovitrelle trigger but  
I came across a fantastic lady called Dr Irfana Koita ( from listening to the Fertility Podcast ) – she runs IVF Matters an online clinic where you can arrange scans have bloods done and have a consultation with her to arrange whichever protocol suits you anywhere in the UK - amazing! 
I am now going  right back to basics and am in the middle of a full natural fertility work up as we never had any of the basics checked as we went straight to IVF so it sounds a bit crazy but we are back at the start…………
Had my day 3 bloods and AFC on Friday – FSH now 16.7 was 11 however Dr Koita has advised that FSH can change every cycle so…
I only had 3 follies – 1 on right is 22mm so will be gone by OV and 2 small ones on left – this is the least I have had as I usually have 4 -5 on day 2 however this changes every cycle and at least I have something to work with 
Booked in for HYCOSY test - back to Glasgow for this at a cost of £455 which I am grateful they are even taking me on for it! - I am gutted the local hospital radiographer will not perform an HSG due to my age even though I was willing to pay privately for it!
High V Scan and Clamydia Test tomorrow can’t wait – not! LOL
Hopefully by Friday everything will be completed and we can decide the next step – excited!
We have decided to only try naturally with Letrozole or mild stims then TI the reason being at my age I read more and more about natural births than any other method so that is the route we have chosen however each to their own – no judging here!
I cannot believe I have not even done any of this before now – thank god for Dr Koita!
Much Love xx


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## Syd72

Hey highlandgirl, lovely to hear from you.  Lot's of exciting stuff going on for you.  Good luck with the hycosy, seems crazy that they wouldn't let you pay for a private hsg??  Keep us posted on next steps.  Do they do the hidden chlamydia test?  I tested positive for that one (having previously tested negative for the regular one) and fell pregnant the month after OH and I did the antibiotics to treat it plus I had a hysto.

Thanks for asking.  I am going to Serum, donor eggs for us now.  I totally believe people should keep going with own eggs as long as they feel able, it's just not for me any more.  I've had 3 natural pregnancies, one cp from a natural iui and one failed round of IVF despite responding really well (for age), producing 10 eggs of which 8 fertilized normally.  Still no baby.  The low chance of oe ivf working combined with worry about miscarriage and possibility of problems with NT scan etc is just too much for me to cope with.  I have no issues with the baby not being genetically connected to me, I will be carrying it and giving birth to it (hopefully).  OH is now 54, he really only wants one more try at this so I want to go for the one that will give us the best chance.  I'm actually feeling really excited about it.  Flying over next weekend for another hysto (hell of a flight from Hong Kong) then hopefully cycling in January.

It can definitely happen though so everything crossed for you and everyone else still going with OE.  I know I've mentioned this before but a lady on my other forum conceived naturally at 47, quite soon after they started trying, and had a perfectly healthy baby when she was 48, no issues during the pregnancy at all.  I've also heard on that forum that someone else has recently conceived at 46 or 47 although I'm not sure who it is.  There are so many stories about woman having surprise pregnancies in their late 40s it's crazy to say it can't happen or the chance is 0%.

Looking forward to all the updates x


----------



## highlandgirl

Hi Syd,

Thanks for the reply!  so glad you are still in the game and I totally understand your move to DE. My DH will be 54 in a couple of weeks and he still wants us to keep going but cant go through the trauma of IVF again and neither can I I'm afraid so its au naturale for us with the help of the stims /pills of course! 
I think I mentioned before my friend in NZ went to the USA and has DE twins so lets hope you get your 1 ( maybe 2 ) from Serum  
Where do you have to go for the hysto? Greece? from HK? Now thats a flight or 2? When are you booked in? 
I know what you mean about being excited as its a new phase in this TTC journey so stay excited!
I am having a clamydia swab when I have the high V swab this morning cant wait for that not! and along with the HYCOSY in 1 week great !! 
I have lost 2 stone since October so I know that can only help our cause and that along with knowing if my tubes are actually open will make me even more determined to keep going! 
xx


----------



## Laquinn

highlandgirl - Are you going to GCRM for your HyCoSy? I went there and it was super quick - I was in and out in ten minutes and the consultant was really good. I asked my GP how much ibuprofen I could take and he said 800mg. I took that an hour before and felt nothing. That's good to know about the Letrozole - fingers crossed my FSH comes down and I can go for it. Well done on losing two stone! I've lost one stone so far - cut out gluten and dairy and been eating loads of estrogenic foods but I think I'll do an elimination diet in the new year to suss out what might be working against me with my autoimmune conditions. If my FSH is still high I'm gonna try taking PABA. Will definitely check out the IVF matters. 

Syd - Good to hear how you're getting on. All the best for your Serum trip in the New Year. Let's hope 2018 is a good year for everyone! x


----------



## highlandgirl

Hi Laquinn!
Thanks for your reply! 
Yes back to GCRM for the HYCOSY - Marco is my consultant from my IVF and letrozole treatments they are just fab there! 
Thanks for the heads up re the time it takes and pills to take etc - I am driving drown takes 3.5 hours just for what now seems a 10 minute appt (absolutely raging at the local hospital for not taking me on ) and then turn straight around and drive back on a Friday afternoon!!AARRGGH!!
Had my bloods taken for a fresh AMH and Karyotype test today but no High V Swab or Clamydia test as nurse called in sick! re arranged for Wednesday now.
Also forgot to say I have been taking DHEA for over 5 months now and I don't seem to have any side effects apart from a bit more facial hair! 
Interested to see if it makes any difference ....
I had my allergies / intolerance checked and I need to cut out lactose and beef! Also prescribed more b vits and pro biotics as have a yeast imbalance - great!!
I am on the cambridge plan - no food just protein replacements got another 2 and a bit weeks to go - I went for 12 weeks from 01.10.17 - xmas eve - it worked out as 12 weeks sunday to sunday so I went for it!
Whats PABA?
Whats your next appt / plan Laquinn?

xx


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - Yes, I really like GCRM too. That's rubbish of your local hospital not to take you - especially if you offered to pay for it. Hope your HyCoSy goes well and the drive isn't too much of a nightmare. Fingers crossed for your AMH results too. 
Please let us know how you get on with the DHEA  - my consultant and Endocrinologist both said no to it for me but if I get desperate...
Where did you get your allergies/ intolerance tested? 
Well done for sticking to the diet! You must be looking forward to Christmas dinner!
PABA is B vitamins some say or an amino acid. It's supposed to help lower FSH.
Next appt for me is an FSH test at GCRM next week. If that comes down then the plan is to do letrozole cycles under the guidance of the immunologist and getting scans at GCRM. I've got some fertility massages booked in and if my FSH doesn't come down we'll just keep trying naturally for a while.

xx


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn - My AMH was 2.8 last year when I had my IVF than went down to 1.1 then back up to 1.8 in August?? Not sure what the hell is happening there! 
I had a baseline day 2 scan and bloods at the local hospital ( amazing girl set up a private fertility scans and bloods clinic there where 50% of the fees go back to the NHS ) AFC was 3 but one was a huge follicle on the right so that will be going soon and 2 smaller on the left - not great  at last scan cycles I had 3 - 4 but we will try this month if I'm ok after the HYCOSY which is on day 9 and I OV around 10-12 so fingers crossed we can try this month anyway naturally 
I was tested at TESTME but if you look up ATUK / BER testers you will find someone locally? 
She advised the B vits and pro biotics along with super antioxidants - I feel like I'm rattling with all the vits / minerals!
Might have to invest in the PABA - my FSH was 11 now 16.8!
I had acupuncture when IVF cycling and I love it and thought it really helped me balance out not sure if thats an option for you? I am starting back in January.
Whats the fertility massage like? 
Just the HVS and C Test tomorrow then HYCOSY on Friday then thats me done until I get the AMH / Karyotype bloods results back in 2 weeks hopefully a positive xmas present! - DH needs some bloods done which we can get done at hosptital then ready for action lol!


----------



## Laquinn

highlandgirl - thanks for the info. I wouldn't worry about the AMH; after reading Inconceivable I'm going to try and not worry about anything! That was good of that girl to set up the scans and bloods for you - the NHS have been brilliant with blood tests, consultants etc but I can't get anything done with them for our private consultation anymore as it's against their policy. Fair enough.  
Thanks for the info on the testers - I might just do an elimination diet but to make sure. Last night I ate beef and didn't sleep well, heart rate went up, came out in a rash and woke up with mouth ulcers - so that's probably one to avoid!
After a couple of months of fertility massage I was thinking about acupuncture; I had it when we conceived our angel. I had it after we lost her and it helped with the grief and my cycle came back straight away. There's a Zita West recommended one in the west end I might try.
Fertility massage is great - a bit strange and intense but I found it helped me let go of a lot grief I was carrying in my womb. I've only had one so far but I think my period was better after getting it. I'm going to learn how to do it at home and a wee bit of reflexology. 
My DH has to get the SpermComet test done and is a bit apprehensive!


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn - 
I love my wee acupunture clinic   I think it grounds you and makes you feel so much better about everything so I can see why it has helped you through such traumatic events my lovely   
I also had reflexology last week as part of my non food weekly treats on my weight loss journey and I love that too! Might ask my therapist if she can look into the fertility massage for me 
My DH only had the SA at GCRM and we cant prize him away from our business to get anything else done not even DNA Frag test but his swimmers we good on the SA so I have to just pray they can catch the golden egg! We did get 2 fertilised eggs from 3 on our IVF cycle so it gives me hope!
What does the SpermComet test tell you? Does your DH have any other S issues? Hopefully not 
Have you read Rebecca Flett it starts with the egg? its a great book..
I will buy the inconceivable one and give that a read!


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - Thanks  
DH had SA with excellent results but our immunologist wants more detail about DNA. He's been very good and given up alcohol but refuses to give up his sweet treats like cake and biscuits! He doesn't eat them all the time but and I feel bad he's not drinking.
That's an encouraging result from your cycle - did you do PGS?
Spermcomet tells you about the DNA.
Yes, I've read It Starts With The Egg - sadly I can't take any of the supplements because of my thyroid condition. I tried CoQ10 and it made me seriously depressed and messed up my cycle; I suffer from PMDD too so I can't mess with my hormones too much. I thinks herbs, nutrition and acupuncture might be a way forward for me.


----------



## LuckyE

Hey everyone. We managed to transfer something this month. It's fragmented but it's in. It'll be a miracle if it makes it through all the hurdles so we're realistic about it but for now we're happy. We've decided to give it two more goes after this before calling it a day. 

Feel like I've coughed it out already though.


----------



## Laquinn

LuckyE - good luck!     Where are you cycling?


----------



## highlandgirl

LuckyE - Thats amazing   you are officially PUPO so relax and get the positive vibes going!  how many days past transfer are you? When is your OTD?  That's great you are going to consider 2 more goes but maybe you wont need them!
Remind me of your treatment again? Sorry too excited for you!!! xxx

Laquinn - DH had good results too and Dr K wants him to do the DNA Fragmentation Test is that the same thing? but I wont be able to get him away to do it and they wont do it here so we will just have to go for it! DH also should be drinking less and eating better but hes not  going to have that chat but just had the lets keep trying chat at the weekend so don't want to go for round 2 just yet!  
We didnt do PGS - GCRM dont do it unless you can bank around 6 embies from your cycles and then they send them to be tested so we just took the chance anyways...
Sorry you are suffering my lovely - I am sure this will all work out for us all we need to keep the faith!  
I take 900mg of CoQ10 along with the DHEA / Pregnacare  / Vit D / Vit C & E / Omega 3,6,9  my new b vits and probiotics have just arrived so will start on them - rattling!!
Acupuncture is defo the way forward as is the nutrition and herbs - have you watched the videos on you tube / checked out the web -  Natural Fertility Breakthough shes great! Gabriella Rosa - I had a telephone consult with her. She does a Free Fertility Challenge next one starts 5th Jan I think - she is all about the mind / body connection etc worth a go for free?
I also like Hether from Natural Fertility Info she has a lot of great herbs / natural options and great website as well...


AFM - Had my HVS Etc today was all ok and Glucose blood came back normal like all my other bloody blood tests - wish I could find an issue sometimes so I could get an answer but hey ho!
Just the HyCoSy now and then the fight to get more blood out of DH and then thats it lets the games begin lol lol!
Might try anyway this cycle as will be day 9 when I get HyCoSy and I usually OV around 11/12 going by my Clearblue Monitor - roll the dice eh?
PS I bought the book inconceivable and another one by Dr Alan Beer


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - Yes, I think it's a DNA fragmentation test.
Ah - 'the chats  
I was really excited after I read 'It Starts With The Egg' but guess I'll have to make do with the accupuncture and herbs!
Thanks for the tips for online stuff - I'll check them out.
That's good your tests were all clear. 
Seems a HyCoSy can make a bfp more likely within the next 6 months - I'd definitely go for it!    
I didn't realise there was another Alan Beer book!   Which one is that?

AFM - Countdown to FSH test; doing fertility affirmations; eating sardines every day and drinking liquorice tea!   Fingers crossed it all works but feeling a lot more relaxed and healthy is good anyway!


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn - Had a quick read about the Sperm Comet test seems a great one to do and just what Dr K suggested for DH but again we have the issue of geography... when is your DH going for it? I take it you are going back to GCRM for it?
I just had a quick look and it is the Is your body baby friendly one if that's the only one? I have also read Claudia Sphar Right Time Baby and the Zita West books as well.
If you are into podcasts The Fertility Podcast is great so is Beat Infertility and there are others which I find a great help plus help me get through the work stuff during the day!
I also downloaded the ZW meditations for when I had my IVF and the Natural Pregnancy one so will be using that as well.
Sardines and Liquorice Tea Eh? Interesting...... as you say we will be the healthiest we have ever been which can only be a good thing!
Dr K said that as well about the HyCoSy - it will clear any debris so here's hoping  although I just heard the trains are cancelled today and the white stuff is on the way here! AARRGGHH! booked the train and will drive if they are still cancelled tomorrow  
Any other tips on the HyCoSy - will take the 800mg of Ibuprofen an hour before - did you feel ok afterwards and sorry to ask but did you bleed at all?
How long were you there in total - trying to get an earlier train if possible too impatient me! Test at 2pm train from QS at either 3.08 or stuck there till 4.41...!
When is your FSH test - day 3 of cycle I assume you are just waiting on AF? 

Anyone else out there still its all gone v quiet! Maybe you are all off xmas shopping or tree decorating LOL


----------



## Laquinn

highlandgirl - DH had to get a blood test from the GP to check for STDs before GCRM would do Sperm Comet so just waiting on those results. 
Yes, that's the Alan Beer book I read too. Thanks for the other book and podcast tips - sometimes a wee bit of cheering on from something like that can be just what you need. 
I'm doing the affirmations mentioned by Tracy Slater here: https://thegoodshufu.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/how-i-got-pregnant-naturally-at-45/ It's good because it's more about relinquishing control and acceptance which I find relaxing. What are the ZW meditations like?
Going to do some fertility yoga today to zone out and try and not stress about my FSH! 
Yeah - I heard the snow was on it's way!  Hope the trains are running okay. Better pack a blanket and some kendal mint cake if you have to drive! 
Yes I did bleed so take some pads with you - they offer you them anyway. I bled for about four days after. 
My appointment was at 10am and I was there early so I went in about 9:50am and was out around 10am! I maybe could have chinned the consultant a wee bit more (especially for that money! ) but just wanted in and out. I felt absolutely fine after - it's nothing to worry about at all and very reassuring to see the dye going round your tubes on the scan. 
Yeah - just waiting on AF now. Past three cycles have been 30 days long so hopefully it won't do anything crazy this month. I think I have to get it checked next month too. 
How did you find the Letrozole cycles?

And yes, hello to everyone else - hope we're not hogging the thread too much!


----------



## Syd72

I'm still here, just not much to add since I'm now onto DE.  Got everything crossed for you both though!


----------



## highlandgirl

Syd - Hello!!Good Luck with your DE cycle keep us posted please? 

Laquinn - On the train thank god on the way! So much snow here cant believe it!
ZW visualisation is really good I think and it helps you really see the follicles growing and each stage etc - download it from the app store ( I am assuming you have an Iphone etc? lol )
My Letrozole cycles were really easy no real side effects a bit of bloating mild headache took the pills days 2-6 1 pill 5mg a day had a scan day 2 and 9 and then took trigger ovitrelle then DTD and then the 2ww.... used Clearblue Monitor to check for Peak as well and then FRER to test as well as the monitor but BFN both times.
Would have kept going but needed to lose weight both in mind and body plus I have never had the tubes etc tested so it all seems a bit pointless before now so fingers crossed its all ok today!
I think I am going to get a peak tomorrow or Sunday but if Im bleeding that's not going to work eh? gggrrrrrr! that means a missed cycle - oh well! 
What day you on now?
I know it seems like we have lost everyone on the way!....

Hello - Is there anybody out there


----------



## Laquinn

Syd - How long 'til your DE cycle? Doing anything to prepare?

Highlandgirl - Thank God the train made it! It's really sunny in Glasgow   I'm just about to go out for a run - should be bracing!  
I might give the ZW visualization a shot...
Fingers crossed my FSH comes down - consultant said no to wheatgrass...  
The consultant who did my HyCoSy said it was fine to get straight back on it even if you're bleeding... 
I'm on CD28 - feeling pretty sleepy and periody so hopefully a sign that my ovaries aren't giving up on me just yet


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi 

Sorry for the radio silent. I trying to make sense of my life and TTC. 

Thanks for keeping the thread going and all your useful and encouraging advice. 

Laquinn - I’ve ordered 3 books you’ve recommended. Lots of reading for Christmas. 

I had a few immune tests via Create but they cocked up on a few of the tests and the ones that was done right they wasn’t suggesting anything different for a high test results. My Chicago level 2 tests show high CD19 and CD56.  I’ve booked an appointment with Mr S to see him in January. 

My OH fertility still hasn’t come back after chemo so he’ll test again in Feb. As an after thought 2 months past his treatment was too soon, given it needs 3 months to create fresh sperm. If required we have frozen to use. Ideally I would like to try letrozole and try naturally. 

Started reading Alan Beers’ book and can relate to the experiences in the book. I had 4 good embryos transferred on my first cycle and a few days after transfer I was in so much pain. It was like my miscarriage. After that all my pregnancy symptoms went. No one could explain it. Think people thought it was my imagination, luckily OH was there to witness it. Started to feel less crazy. 

Trying to enjoy the down time to lose some weight, has a few glasses of wine and enjoy DTD without a schedule. 

Syd - hope it goes well with DE. When will you be going to Serum? Will they be giving any additional treatment to help? I hope you don’t mind me asking but have you had any immune tests? 

Lucky - Hopefully you’re relaxing. Fingers crossed for a BFP. 

All - hope your journey is going well. 

X


----------



## esj

HI All
sorry for lack of contact, I havent been on for a while. My cycle is playing up at the moment. Had one period since BFN in October but nothing since. Now on Day 41. Managed to get 2 months supply of Letrozole but need to have a period before trying. Just keeping busy with work/social stuff and trying not to think about it as there is nothing I can do right now. 
Good luck to all
XX


----------



## Laquinn

Sunflowerseeds - Hope you find some inspiration in the books! 

That's frustrating about Create but good you're going to see Mr S; he's very thorough. I think if your instinct is telling you there's a possible immune issue it's definitely the way to go. I think the NHS are starting to entertain the fact that they can't just totally dismiss a lot of the developments in the immunes field - but it's expensive.

I'm quite enjoying not having the pressure of ttc too; although the estrogenic diet I'm eating at the moment to try and lower my FSH isn't helping me shift the pounds! A lot of fats but good fats.

esj - Can a FET knock your cycle out? 
That's good you've got the Letrozole booked in. Hoping my cycle and FSH play ball so I can get on it too!
XX


----------



## LuckyE

Hiya

Glad everyone's still around. 

Syd - yeah, Peny has advised me donor eggs after this. But she doesn't have a donor for me so I'm not sure where to go next. 

Highland and Laquinn - it's so nice to read your convos. Love that you're keeping the thread going. I'm doing natural. They managed to get 2 eggs on this natural cycle but one was abnormal. I had been 21 days on the BCP which really helped balance me out and get rid of a cyst. I had a lining and everything as previous months my lining was non existent.  anyway gonna do those affirmations you told us about, Laquinn. I need them   

ESJ - I didn't have a period so I took a scan and there was a 3 cm cyst so Peny put me on the pill to bring a bleed and settle the ovaries. you could  have a scan just to see what's going on? You could have  the same problem??

Thanks Sunflowerseeds it's nice sometimes to focus on yourself without the stress of IVF. 

AFM - not feeling anything. Feel perfectly normal which is worrying. I know people say you don't feel anything but I've been here before if you get what I mean... but I'm still trying to be positive for the next few days.


----------



## Syd72

LuckyE that’s panicked me slightly, why does she not have a donor for you? Is she saying she can’t get one? I haven’t heard anything about mine yet. Good luck with this cycle x


----------



## Laquinn

LuckyE - Everything crossed for you. Hope the affirmations help.    

Highlandgirl - How did the HyCoSy go?


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn – Made it there and got the earlier train back whew! I so miss Glasgow when I am there – so many great memories and it was sooooo sunny! which is bizarre as it was a whiteout here  
Let me know what you think of the ZW download?
Can you do anything else to lower FSH? And has AF made her appearance yet?
Can I ask about the whole immunes area? Who is Dr S and where is he based? Also what specifically do they test for and why? Absolutely no knowledge of this but I have had A LOT of test so not sure if any fall under this category – sorry still to start Dr Beers book but I know you will give me the straight answer! Lol x

Syd – Sorry I can’t offer any help with the donor options Whoever you choose to go with I’m sure will work out and you sound like a lady who will make sure you cover all the bases first?  Serum always sound like such a great clinic I am sure they will look after you xx

Sunflowerseeds – Hello my lovely so glad to hear from you! Remember that we are all here to support one another and radio silence is ok says she who disappears off from time to time!
I think I might have to go and see this Dr S as you all seem to be doing it! Lol x
Feb is not too far away and it will give you and OH time to enjoy xmas / ny – getting jiggy with no pressure and whilst enjoying a few wines! and get yourselves relaxed and healthy for 2018 the year of the babies for us all!! 
I am so sorry to hear about the embryos in your cycle – I can’t believe you got 4 good ones go you! I had 2 put back and the same as you the symptoms were there then disappeared – we did a big walk on 8DPT and I am sure that didn’t help but you never know…

Esj – Hello my lovely! So glad to hear from you  
I had a 38 day cycle after the Clomid / IVF so it will come….
I think that we are all in the same boat in one way or another in the waiting to start Letrozole game! Have you tried Acupuncture as it can balance you and get the blood flowing to your uterus / start AF? 
Stay busy and look after yourself and keep us posted when AF makes her appearance!
Are you taking day 2 – 6 5mg? Anything else to prepare at all?

LuckyE – Hello lovely! Just trying to keep everyone going in the rollercoaster ride!!
Go you 2 eggs on a natural cycle! Do they test all eggs for you? I had the BCP before my IVF too and as I say do whatever it takes leave no stone unturned!
I have had scans a lot to see what is going on its so reassuring to know and then you can plan better – maybe an idea for you ESJ?
Maybe you should look at Acupuncture LuckyE as well for the lining / blood flow but maybe you won’t need to as we are all praying your wee juicy lucy is THE ONE!? 
What day are you on now – don’t feel the need to tell us if you don’t want the pressure we just want to support you! 

AFM - HyCoSy All clear!!! So happy and you were right Laquinn – in and out in 10mins no pain ( took the 800mg Ibuprofen as you suggested thanks )
Peak on the Clearblue on Friday – jiggy done and now the wait……
If this cycle is a no go I will have all the tests back by then and have the option of Letrozole / Ovitrelle or Dr K will go for the big guns Gonal F / Menopur etc ( I still have a 900iu of Gonal F in the Fridge and I am damned if its going to waste lol ) but still only natural DTD etc..
PS what are your thoughts on Letrozole with IUI as I would be definitely doing this if I had a closer clinic? 
We can’t get anywhere to do the cleaning of the swimmers locally so I need to just go with au natural.
PPS I have decided we could rebrand as the Letrozole ladies!


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Fantastic news that the HyCoSy went well. Fingers crossed your natural cycle works this cycle.

Mr S is based is Epsom and Harley Street. Here's his website http://www.miscarriageclinic.co.uk

He's also mentioned in Dr Beers book as a supporter of his treatment.

Like the idea of IUI if natural doesn't work. Heard taking Letrozole on days 5-9 is better for rag quality sooner to help with egg development. I seem to think TTCNK was on 10mg, not sure of the days of the cycle. I'm sure she can fill you in. She also used Mr S to support pre and during pregnancy.

February will be here before we know it and hopefully everything aligns for us with tests and treatment and improved sperm.

Syd - from my dealings with Serum they've been fantastic. Very helpful with their advice and supportive with us having these tests. Depending on specific requirements for donors it may take longer to find someone. Penny's husband died recently so that may explain some of her silence but the other team members are very responsive so drop them an email if you have any concerns.

Take care everyone x


----------



## highlandgirl

Sunflowerseeds - Just been for a snow walk / run around with my furbaby Miss Poppy The Whippet and I can feel my left ovary throbbing hopefully its a good sign!  
I looked up Mr S clinic - wow what a lot of tests where do you start? It could run into a lot of ££ - I will need to start reading Dr Beers book!
I have a PM from TTCNK which tells you exactly what she followed - I will ask her if its ok to share or if you are reading this TTCNK please let the ladies know?
I would have gone with IUI as recommended by Dr K if we could but its just not feasible so just need to work with the swimmers we have!
I will say a wee prayer for you for Feb   you are doing everything you can so its just time now!
Penny and Serum always sound great to me sorry to hear of her loss and I'm sure she will still be able to help Syd / yourself and many others xx


----------



## LuckyE

sydd - if she didn't a donor for you she'd tell you! I'm of African origin. There are two African donors on her books but she doesn't want to try them as they're not a good enough match. She prides herself on matching and I trust her. She told me this over the summer. 2 years ago she had a perfect donor for me but that ones seems to have moved on... 

If you're worried just give her a gentle reminder. Someone will get back to you xx

Highland -  thought not to say anything as it would jinx it but my mind is coming round to the inevitable. OTD is 16th. I don't even have weird boobs from the progesterone these past few days. I did want to try a couple of times more but now not feeling so sure...


----------



## highlandgirl

LuckyE - Fingers crossed for you - you never know!    xx

On the subject of Progesterone I have never taken anything? Your thoughts / experience in this area please ladies?


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - Great to hear the HyCoSy went well - fingers crossed it helps get you you're bfp this month   

I could try PABA or flaxseeds to lower the FSH but I'm worried it might affect my thyroid. Mr S doesn't approve of extra supplements so far. I've read about some people doing estrogen priming with high fsh so might run that past Mr S. AF is due tomorrow - hopefully it will turn up! I am bloated and feeling very premenstrual...  

Do you think you'll go and see Mr S too? Mr S has prescribed progesterone if we do the Letrozole cycles with him. 

LuckyE - Good luck!    

Hope everyone else is doing well


----------



## Syd72

Ah I see, thanks for explaining LuckyE, hopefully you won’t get to the stage of needing donors 

Even with Thymios’ death the communication from the Clinic is still great, they really are amazing. they’ve said nothing to suggest any issue finding a donor for next month so i’m Just panicking over nothing... I fly out there on Thursday for my hysto so I’m sure I’ll hear more then.


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn - Hoping for wee juicy lucy to be the one! Dr K has prescribed Cyclogest which I got from my GP but that was for either the Letrozole or Injectables cycles so I haven't asked her about using them for now.
I will get a blood test on Friday to check Progesterone level and check I definitely OV.
Hoping your AF is coming soon! I get you with the bloating and pre menstrual symptoms....
Where are you off to for your FSH test and do you have any others planned? Dr K has said that FSH changes every cycle so here's hoping your level is down now!
I am looking at all the Dr S info - did you have all of those tests done? 
Would be lovely to meet you all I'm sure we could spend a good day putting the world to rights when it comes to our fertility journeys! lol 

Syd - I'm sure you will feel much better once you are at the clinic and see them face to face I always prefer that to emails etc and I am sure they can go through your donor options as well - good luck for Thursday   

LuckyE -     keep positive for the 16th! I will be testing on ( or before knowing me ) Xmas Eve! xx


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - Lol! Fingers crossed for your juicy lucy!   Cycolgest is what I've been prescribed too. Last November I was getting a lot of accupuncture and the practitioner was encouraging me to take low dose asprin for the whole cycle and progesterone cream from ovulation but GP said no. I wonder if that would have done it now...  
I had progesterone tested but it was in the follicular phase I think so might have to get that done again. 
Hope AF shows up today otherwise I'll have to postpone my FSH test... When I went thyrotoxic early this year I had a 7 week cycle - hope that's not gonna happen again! Drinking hot water now incase the liquorice and fennel tea delay it. Never thought I'd be so desperate to have a period!  
I had a lot of tests done with Mr S - 18 vials of blood! But so glad we done them. Mr S will only do the tests he thinks are relevant. I'd had a lot of tests done with the NHS after our loss. Make sure you take any results of any tests you've had done with you. They send you a pretty detailed form to fill in with your history before the appointment.
If you're ever in the Weeg and fancy a cuppa give us a shout.
Everything crossed for Christmas Eve.    

Good luck to everyone else too   xx


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn - I get my progesterone tested every cycle at the GP 7 days after OV to see if I have OV'd - they always come back around 30 ish but only on 1 Letrozole cycle it came back at 68.3!
Dr K says that on a medicated cycle it should be around 100 so thats why she prescribed it for after OV  - will take a chance this cycle and just get tested and then speak to her when I have my review once all my results are back!
Just got my results from HVS & C Test – the GP receptionist quote “ its all normal “ now means I will have to go there and ask for a print out! Jeez!
Here hoping AF shows herself soon for you!
Will ask Dr K about immunes when I next speak to her still waiting on the Karyotype and fresh AMH as well and then that’s me completed everything she has listed for me – just DH turn to get bloods – will need another “ chat “ for that lol!
Pity I didn’t have more time on Friday a cuppa would have been fab! Should have met you at the clinic we could have bombarded them and asked for a 2 for 1 treatment plan hahahahhah! Lol xx
Hope everyone else is doing ok


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn - I get my progesterone tested every cycle at the GP 7 days after OV to see if I have OV'd - they always come back around 30 ish but only on 1 Letrozole cycle it came back at 68.3!
Dr K says that on a medicated cycle it should be around 100 so thats why she prescribed it for after OV  - will take a chance this cycle and just get tested and then speak to her when I have my review once all my results are back!
Just got my results from HVS & C Test – the GP receptionist quote “ its all normal “ now means I will have to go there and ask for a print out! Jeez!
Here's hoping AF shows herself soon for you!
Will ask Dr K about immunes when I next speak to her still waiting on the Karyotype and fresh AMH as well and then that’s me completed everything she has listed for me – just DH turn to get bloods – will need another “ chat “ for that lol! Must get onto the Dr Beer book too...
Pity I didn’t have more time on Friday a cuppa would have been fab! Should have met you at the clinic we could have bombarded them and asked for a 2 for 1 treatment plan hahahahhah! Lol xx
Hope everyone else is doing ok


----------



## Mspoodle

hi Juliete
i am in the same controversy wether to undergo ivf again or not i am 43 and i dont know why i waited all this time, what did you end up doing ? i hope you have good news


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - That's a good idea to get progesterone tested. 
Good news with the HVS & C test results  
Apparently it's common for AF to be delayed for a week or so after a HyCoSy - I spent yesterday drinking tumeric, corriander teas and eating dates trying to bring it on so I could get my FSH done on Wednesday   But if it's delayed by a week we might be able to try this cycle as I'll have been on the immunes long enough - hoping it stays away now! 
Good luck with your DH 'chat'! My DH doesn't know what's going on - I want AF to come; I don't want AF to come....(!) 
Would totally recommend getting into the Alan Beer book. 
I just finished Inconceivable which was very inspiring - gonna get Julia Indichova's other book The Fertile Female now to read.  
Think we should definitely run a buddy up 2 for 1 scheme past GCRM!  

Mspoodle - I got pregnant naturally at 43 but very sadly we lost our wee girl due to immune issues. 

Hope everyone else is doing well     xx


----------



## Mspoodle

Laquinn said:


> Highlandgirl - That's a good idea to get progesterone tested.
> Good news with the HVS & C test results
> Apparently it's common for AF to be delayed for a week or so after a HyCoSy - I spent yesterday drinking tumeric, corriander teas and eating dates trying to bring it on so I could get my FSH done on Wednesday  But if it's delayed by a week we might be able to try this cycle as I'll have been on the immunes long enough - hoping it stays away now!
> Good luck with your DH 'chat'! My DH doesn't know what's going on - I want AF to come; I don't want AF to come....(!)
> Would totally recommend getting into the Alan Beer book.
> I just finished Inconceivable which was very inspiring - gonna get Julia Indichova's other book The Fertile Female now to read.
> Think we should definitely run a buddy up 2 for 1 scheme past GCRM!
> 
> Mspoodle - I got pregnant naturally at 43 but very sadly we lost our wee girl due to immune issues.
> 
> Hope everyone else is doing well    xx


im sorry to hear your loss; very sad i hope you are recovered and have more good news soon.
xx


----------



## esj

Hi Ladies...
Laquinn Yes I really feel the medicated FET has thrown my cycle out of whack. I'd only ever done natural FET before and this didnt happen. Although it could just be perimenopause as my ovulation has become irregular this year,
Lucky E/ Highland Girl thanks for the advice. I might go for a scan before Christmas if still no AF show. Anyone heard of taking Agnes Castus to regulate cycles?
Syd good luck with the hysto. Poor Penny I didnt realised her husband had passed away as haven't emailed for a few weeks. When did it happen?
Sending all of you good luck and positive vibes. 
Love xxx


----------



## Laquinn

Mspoodle - Thank you 

Esj - I am worrying about perimenopause too... My Mum went through the menopause at 53 but they say it can start around 8 years before. My cycles before the HyCoSy were settling down to 30 days so I think any external interference with your uterus can affect it. We're probably okay! 

I've only read about people online taking Angus Castus. My consultant would probably say no to it anyway so I'm trying to eat a more estrogenic diet to get the same effect. Perhaps you could see a herbalist or an acupuncturist might know?

Just found this thread with some folk talking about taking it here: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7323.10
Might be worth a shot! 

Syd - Hope your hysto goes well   

xxx


----------



## highlandgirl

Mspoodle – I had my first IVF with OE at age 45 so if you have had all your fertility work up tests and everything fine with both of you then you should try which ever option you feel is best? Maybe check with your clinic to see what they suggest as options for you as well? Good Luck whatever you choose and we are here to support you xx

Laquinn – I am hoping your AF has arrived?? And if so did you manage to get your FSH tested otherwise I hope she didn’t come and you can get on it!    I’m off for my Progesterone test today – DH is saying he will come but that is all dependant if he can get away in the middle of the day  Still haven’t had a chance to start the book but we have booked a well-deserved holiday on the 6th so will maybe have to read it on my hols! We only get 1 week away a year – cannot wait! I also bought Inconceivable so it will coming on holiday too  !

Esj - My mum went through menopause in her late 40’s so I must be bucking the trend as I have regular cycles and seems to OV no problem but it has been irregular but that last 4 months seem to be no problem and the only thing I have changed is my diet and lost weight? I don’t know much about the herbs but Hethir Rodreguez who has www.naturalfertilityinfo.com should be able to help you? I would also go for acupuncture as I think this really helps?   


Syd – I hope your Hysto went ok? Xx
LuckyE – Good luck for tomorrow xx
Sunflowerseeds – Hope you are ok? Xx

AFM – I have asked TTCNK if its ok to share her protocol and I know she is busy with her wee miracle man and hasn’t managed to come back to me however I am sure she will be ok with me sharing this to give all us Letrozole Ladies some hope…… :-

I started taking Letrozole after a 3rd miscarriage and a diagnosis of high NK cells.  The reason I did this was because of my age and I wanted to do everything I could, every month felt like a year to me at my age.  

I took 10 mg of Letrozole once a day at the same time ( usually 8am for me).  I got scanned and used the Ovitrelle trigger when told too.  Each time I had 2 - 4 follicles that looked mature.  

First cycle:  Letrozole Day 2-6 definitely felt some pain in ovaries, not too bad but something was going on.  I actually did not use trigger.. I went in too late and had ovulated!..
Second cycle: Letrozole Day 3-7 - for some reason not a good cycle, seems I am better days 2-6
Third / Fourth Cycle:  Day 2-6 all looked good but no luck :-(

Took a break - had a natural BFP, miscarried
Did 2 IVF rounds one with PGS -  1st no normal eggs,  second 3 day 5 blasts put back but negative 

Did final round of Letrozole after 1 cycle post IVF:  Day 2-6, no trigger ( was travelling) but monitored very closely with OPK's and got this BFP... was taking Coq10 & Vit B, Pregnacare and Vit d too...


----------



## Syd72

Thanks ladies, landed at Heathrow around 4.50am so now just waiting for my flight to Athens, hysto early tomorrow.

Esj, I think he died about a month ago? So sad.


----------



## highlandgirl

Syd - Good luck hope you are not too jet lagged x


----------



## Syd72

Thank you, feel ok right now but not looking forward to another 3 1/2 hrs on top of the 13 i’ve Just done... Still, it will all be worth it  x


----------



## highlandgirl

Syd - Of course it will go and buy yourself a nice decaf coffee / tea and a new book


----------



## Laquinn

highlandgirl - AF has arrived!!!   Three days late so not too bad... Mr S has given us the go ahead to try this cycle so nice to have a wee bit of hope over Christmas  
I've got my FSH test booked for Monday which will be CD5 but Mr S said that would be okay. So eating phytoestrogens and meditating!   I need to find out exactly how it all works to try visualisation to lower FSH - does the Zita West meditation do that? 
I loved Inconceivable - the stories of the women she worked with made me cry! I've got Julia Indichova's other book the fertile female to read now.

Thanks for sharing TTCNK's protocol. Fingers crossed my FSH has come down and I can join the Letrozole Ladies!  
Although reading Inconceivable has made me realise that if my FSH is still high it's not a disaster it just means stimulation isn't the best way for us to ttc...

Syd - Hope the hysto went well    

Hope everyone else is well Xx


----------



## LuckyE

BFN for us.  

have my fingers crossed for you Highland Girl.

I'm gonna have my womb checked for adeno etc before I cycle again. (Not sure Penny wiHoping for that in the new year. 

Happy christmas everyone else.


----------



## Syd72

Thanks ladies, other than a small patch of inflammation which I have a course of antibiotics for Penny said my womb is perfect. Came round still in the operating room which was slightly unpleasant but other than that all good. Heading to Athens airport shortly to start the long trek home.

LuckyE, sorry for the bfn.

Laquinn, glad af arrived.

HG, I haven’t kicked the caffeine habit yet, will face that after Christmas 

Hi to everyone else.


----------



## Laquinn

LuckyE - Sorry to hear about the bfn   All the best for the New Year    

Syd - Glad to hear the hysto went well. Don't like the sound of coming round still in the operating room   Hope you have a nice journey home.

AFM - FSH test tomorrow  

Hope everyone else is doing well!
Xx


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi 

LuckyE - sorry about your BFN. Take good care of yourself. 

Syd - glad to hear your op went well. Think I would have been unnerved waking up in the theatre room. Hope your journey home was ok and you're able to relax. Are you waiting for your AF then prepping for your transfer? When are back in Greece? 

Laquinn - hope your FSH test goes well. When do you get the results? If it's ok what the next plans? 

Highlander - thanks for sharing TTCNK journey. Hope your well. When are you thinking of trying letrozole?

TTCNK - thanks for sharing your inspirational journey. Hope you and the little one are doing well.

Mspoodle - I've had family members who have had kids in their 40s and a few friends who had natural BFP at 43 and 46. The latter was a huge surprise as she'd been with her partner for many years and they had agreed they didn't want any children. Sadly they split up as he still didn't want children. Her and her child are happy. I also gear if a woman in Australia who had her first child at 50. A natural BFP after changing her diet to support her OH health.

Others - hope you're all well. Good luck in your journeys.

AFM - waiting for January for appointment with Mr S. Hoping OH sperm count and quality increases by then.

Take care everyone X


----------



## LuckyE

That's encouraging sunflowerseeds. 

Having my last load of mince pies then I'm gonna change my diet right after Christmas. ... 

Take care everyone. xx

  for our rainbows in 2018


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Here's a few inspirational stories x

http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/425693/child-in-the-nick-of-time/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1560739/UK-woman-59-worlds-oldest-natural-mother.html


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Interesting research on positive impact of vitamin D on AMH.

https://www.nutraingredients.com/Article/2017/07/21/Study-underscores-positive-effect-of-vitamin-D-on-female-fertility


----------



## Laquinn

Sunflowerseeds - Good to hear you're booked in to see Mr S   Is your OH on a protocol to improve sperm count and quality? Thanks for posting those stories and the research - need a bit of inspiration! Should get the FSH test results back this week. OH has to get SpermComet test done. If that's all okay then the plan is to do Letrozole cycles, if not then retest FSH in January... Just back from a fertility massage and feeling blissed out!    

LuckyE - enjoy your mince pies!  And yes, here's to our 2018 rainbow bubbas!


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Laquinn, 

I had some tests that showed hidden c so me and OH had antibiotics. Was advised this doubled up as treatment to help sperm. OH finished chemo nearly 3 months ago so think he needed more time to create sperm. He has been on an intensive course of supplements and vitamins so fingers crossed. 

Good luck in reducing your FSH and starting letrozole. 

X


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Sunflowerseeds - Fingers crossed the regime has worked for your OH      

Got my FSH test results back and it's back down to 7!  

X


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Thanks Laquinn, 

Really hoping it makes a difference. 

Fantastic news on your FSH. 

Have you started the letrozole? 

X


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Sunflowerseeds,

Can only help I'd say...

Au-naturel this cycle. Just waiting to hear back from the consultant to hear if he want's to try superovulation next cycle...

Just back from a fertility massage - feeling blissed out!    

X


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Laquinn, 

Fertility massage sounds fab. I used to have them and also do the maintenance massage myself in between sessions.

Fingers crossed for this cycle for you. 

All - wishing everyone a very happy and restful Christmas.

Take care X


----------



## highlandgirl

Hello Ladies!
Sorry for the radio silence business too damn busy at this time of year!
Laquinn – So glad to hear your FSH is down to 7 WOW that’s impressive! What do you think helped?
I hear you on the FSH high no stimms chat as well – I am on the fence whether to take anything or just try au naturel? 
Has DH had the comet test yet? 
I quite like the sound of the fertility massage will need to see if its made it way up here yet – we are a wee bit behind with a lot of things!...
Did you try ZW download?
I know I have mentioned this before but have a look at Gabriela Rosas Free Fertility Challenge its very good!
When will you be in the 2WW?
I started the Alan Beer book but had paused as I haven’t been able to keep my eyes open to read anything! Zzzzzz

LuckyE – So sorry to hear of your BFN – what are your next plans? Will you be joining the Letrozole Ladies Crew? Sending you big hugs and baby dust …x

Syd72 – Jeez that’s a bit nuts waking up on the operating table? Anyway I’m glad it went well! 
Whats the next stage for you Syd?
I kicked the caffeine about a year ago but it has crept back in – just 1 cup a day as I was drinking 10 cups a day worst ever withdrawl but so glad I did it – PS the best decaf is M & S one! 

ESJ – How are you doing?? xx


Sunflowerseeds – Glad to hear you are off to see Mr S as well! Keep us posted on his findings?
Interesting enough I started taking 25ug of Vitamin D from H & B and lost weight and these were the only 2 things which were different between my August AMH test result which was 1.1 and my December result which has just came back at 3.4 – OMG! My AMH was 2.8 in August 2016 when had my IVF cycle?.................
I hope DH is doing ok and his results improve xxx

Mspoodle – How are you doing?? Xx

AFM – it was a BFN for us but I am ok with that just get back on the bus! – So shocked about my AMH but has given me such a boost!
Went a bit crazy at Xmas with eating and drinking prosecco so need to calm down – we are away to Fuerteventura next Friday for our 1 week a year holiday!
Off for a day 7 scan to see if I have any wee follicles so we can try again over the weekend 

Questions
Do we all OV ourselves and if so should we keep trying au naturel or go for the Letrozole? 
How are we checking that we OV?
Are we going for the Letrozole to encourage more than 1 egg to mature?

I ask because I am not sure whether to keep going as we are or take the Letrozole or mild stimms to get more eggs Dr K says stay au naturel for now…

Happy New Year when it comes and here’s to us all having our babas next year!! xxx

Anyone else out there?? xx


----------



## rosalindc2004

Hi
i was wondering if you have seen any improvement on stem cells procedure.
Greatly appreciate if you can share any insights. i am looking into this right now.
thank you
Rosalind


----------



## Laquinn

highlandgirl - I think eating a more estrogenic diet, fertility yoga and meditation helped bring down my FSH. I think trying to keep a good blood supply to the ovaries through yoga and posture in general helped too. 
I suppose at this age the thinking behind superovulation is more eggs = more chances but I guess I'll have to see how my ovaries respond to the meds. I'm getting into Julia Indichova's approach at the moment so using the drive to conceive as a motivation to get as healthy and happy as possible.
Thanks for the ZW meditation tip! I'm using the natural conception one and I think it helped lower my FSH.
I will look up Gabriela Rosas.
I'm 3dpo according to Fertility Friend app; I don't temp but used a clear blue digi OPK and got a peak smiley CD 11. 
DH hasn't got round to SpermComet yet...

Great news about your AMH - extra vit D may have improved my FSH too...
Fuerteventura sounds amazing! Apparently it's gonna snow for 12 hours here tomorrow...

rosalindc - Sorry I don't know anything about the procedure but definitely interested to learn more...

Happy New Year to everyone when it comes xxx


----------



## highlandgirl

Rosalindc – I am sorry I don’t know anything about the Stem Cell research but I do know there is a thread on here for that just type into the search box and good luck! Xx
Laquinn – I am interested to know more about the estrogenic diet? 
I know you are right re the superovulation it did produce more follicles for me every time. I hear you re the healthy and happy approach that is what I have chosen as my path as well and focused on that for the last 3 months which has been great.
I feel so much better with the 2.5 stone off  - although put on 4 pounds over xmas! #wontfitintoanyholidayclothesifikeepthisup  - LOL!
The ZW natural conception meditation is vg and I did use the IVF ones and I liked them as well I really think it helps.
I use the OVIA app which I started in Jan and it tracks just about anything and you can put in as much or as little as you want very easy to use. I did try to track my temp and I really think it would be very useful but I keep getting up and forgetting to do it before I get out of bed! 
I use the CB digi OPK and I have a CB monitor as well as I found I was getting a Peak smiley only from the digi on CD 9 in the PM but not on either during CD9 in the morning  – same last 2 cycles so I now do both in the morning and just the CB digi again at teatime! I know Im nuts but that means I would have missed it both times….
I had a scan yesterday CD7 as I like to see whats going on especially with no meds – nothing on right ovary and left had 1 v small follicle and 1 x 13mm so I’m still in the game this month!
When I asked my nurse about the meds her response was  - you need to have a lot of lights in there like hotel signs on both sides so the swimmers have more place to choose from lol!
She’s right because if they swim up into my right tube only there is nothing there!
I am going to contact Dr K after our holiday and discuss the best option for us if the wee juicy Lucy on the left is not the one but let’s hope she is! :0
xx


----------



## Laquinn

highlandgirl - Estrogenic diet involved eating lots of fish, salad, seeds, beans, lentils and berries.
Last night I ended up at out of hours with a UTI   Too much baby dancing! So got to take antibiotics for a few days.
That's amazing that you lost 2.5 stone. I'm scared to weigh myself but giving myself a pass with some comfort food because it's Christmas and I have a UTI  When I tried to lose weight that's when my FSH shot up... 
Temping just stressed me out. I read a story about a woman who said she thought the Fertility Friend app had stopped her conceiving because it stressed her out and sued them! She got pregnant after she stopped using it...
I do like the CB digi OPK but - good to see them smileys!   DH drew the line at the monitor - do you rate it?
Can't complain about having a 15 day luteal phase but it does make the 2ww seem like ages!  
Fingers crossed for wee Juicy Lucy on the left!    
xx


----------



## lechatgris

Hi all, 

I am starting to waffle on trying to do this. I do not have a lot of money, and this is going to cost me a lot. Meanwhile, all the articles tell me I have a 99% chance of failure. I can only afford to do one round of this. Am I just throwing away my money? I would love to know how many rounds of IVF most of you on this thread have done so far, and also if you know of any success stories personally on this board, aside from the media stories. I mean, I am willing to spend my (very precious) money if there is a chance for me, but if there is no reasonable chance of this working, then it seems foolish for me to spend my money, time, and most importantly, my emotional energy on this. Egg donation is not an option for me, for personal reasons (mostly having to do with being a single woman without much family around, and the child not knowing the father- it's important to me the child has some sort of grounding in their biological identity.) I have already started down the road, and am about to fill my meds prescription and order the sperm, but I'm having second thoughts. Am I being delusional? I would love any evidence from you guys that this is not a pipe-dream.


----------



## Syd72

Hi ladies, Happy New Year!

Highlandgirl, thanks for the decaf tip, will have to see if M&S out here does it.  I was going to give up this month but have decided to allow myself one a day until transfer...  Sorry for the bfn.  As far as I'm aware I still ovulate every month, I'm basing that on 3 natural pregnancies in the last 18 months plus I always get a strong positive opk (although I've now stopped testing).  Had my progesterone tested twice, once when pregnant and once when definitely not pregnant and it was high.  Have a wonderful holiday.

Sunflowerseeds, I haven't read your article but I started taking high dose vitamin d around 18 months ago and my amh improved.  Could also have been the reflexology or the acupuncture but I have heard vitamin d can help.

Lechatgris, so sorry you're having a wobble.  I've only done one round of IVF with own eggs, it was as I turned 45, my amh had been tested 5 months previously and was 11.7 so very good for my age, I responded well to the drugs, got 10 eggs of which 8 fertilised normally with icsi, there were only 3 that were more or less where they should have been on day 5 (although 2 of those were slightly slow), 2 were put back and failed, the last one wasn't suitable to freeze.  The only success stories I know of are on this thread.  Plus on another forum I occasionally use a woman fell pregnant naturally at 47, had a trouble free pregnancy and gave birth to a healthy baby at 48.

I completely understand that donor eggs may not be an option for you but just wondered if you'd considered going that route in the UK so that you have ID release?  The baby would then be able to track the egg donor.  

Otherwise, I would say yes, the chances aren't high but that doesn't mean it can't happen or you can't do it.  Presumably you'll have young and healthy donor sperm which will definitely help as there's a fair amount of research I believe on the different combinations of young eggs and old sperm, old eggs and old sperm and old eggs and young sperm, so to speak.  My understanding is that if one half at least is young and strong it can help make up other issues.  That's a very simplistic way of looking at it but it's a positive.

You need to ask yourself, how will you feel if you don't try?  Will you look back in a few years and regret it?  If the answer is yes, which I suspect it will be, you have to go for it.  It absolutely can happen, no it won't happen for everyone of our age but why should you not be one of the few it does work for!

Sorry, not sure if that's at all helpful, I'm basically saying go for it.

Hi to everyone else, I still need to catch up on all the updates.

No news from me, just waiting for AF to start which should be Thursday or Friday.


----------



## lechatgris

Thanks, Syd, for your thoughts. I just don't want to be spending my money (all out of pocket) on false hope. But you may be right that if I don't try at all I will regret it, and this may be paying for me to be able to let it go, if it doesn't happen. 

Incidentally, I asked the IVF doctor in Denmark about coffee and said I had stopped drinking it, and he laughed and said it was nonsense to give up coffee, that my eggs are not affected by it. So he seemed to think that was needless self-torture. Hehe.


----------



## lechatgris

By the way, have any of you in the UK read about this or taken part in the clinical trials? It's a procedure that supposedly makes older eggs "young" again by adding "young" mitochondria: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/ivf-procedure-that-makes-older-eggs-young-again-could-come-to-uk-a6831736.html


----------



## Syd72

Phew! I ended up drinking 3 today


----------



## Laquinn

Happy New Year everyone! Hope it's a good year for us all    

letchatgris - What about doing superovulation IUI with donor sperm? You'd be able to do a few rounds of that for the price of a single round of IVF I'd think?

Syd - Fingers crossed AF plays ball and turns up on time


----------



## Anna20162016

Lechatgris, 
I wrote to ovascience about that trial, it's closed now to clinics except in Canada, IVF Alicant( I think ) did it as a trial last year. 
The criteria for the trail is of course for people under 36 with a AMH over 15,  for people that really don't need it. 
It's about 15 K Canadian also. 
Stem cell treatment  in Serum is another one people I've seen write about, one lady I'm following I'm waiting to see her results.

I don't know what to advise  you, I'm 43.5,  4 failed IVF last year,  21 K euro down, and starting again on Thursday and have another 6 K to land out. 
I'm Irish and nothing is paid for in Ireland, it's all private and you only can claim 20% back on tax,  it's a financial nightmare. 
I've been told at my age I need 6- 8 embryos to test to get one PGS normal,  My AMH is 3.6 low follicle count at 2- 3
On supplements CO Q10 Ubiquinol 600 mg, Meta folic, Melatonin 3 mg, preconceive, DHEA 100 mg since last may, my follicle count increased and on the last round in Nov I got 7 eggs though most failed to fertilise.  My consultant ( Care Ireland ) told me it's a number game I need at least 30 eggs to get one normal PGS embryo

With me I'm prepared to spend to live with the fact that if this doesn't work I have tried everything possible to have a baby. 
I invested in freezing my eggs back at 38 ( thawed in 2017 and all failed ) so I've spent a fortune on this already.

I'm not sure what clinic you are with but I researched a lot and GEnnet in Prague seems to be a good option, Serum in Greece. 
Gennet in Prague push mini IVF for over 42's. 

For me DE is just not an option, I just feel that with my genes I know the outcome family history and all that and we decided we're going to just live with the fact of no family if this fails for us. the clinic is telling me I need to go DE and in the UK under Care it's a traceable donor I think a 6 month wait list to find a match and that.

Good luck , I'm following this thread now to see how everyone is getting on. 

Please is anyone has had sucess post and give us all some hope.

x x x


----------



## Flyby

Hi Anna, not sure if you’ve read all the thread already, but I had success with Serum at 44 with my own eggs and so did a few others during the time I was cycling. If you click on my name and “show posts” you should be able to read about it all in my previous posts. Good luck! Flyby x


----------



## Blondie71

Yes if I had only one shot serum would be where I'd head for too (I'm biased though😂 having gone that route already) but seriously penny does customise treatment according to the whole picture, I had my treatment at 40, pregnancy with twins 1st go with her, I also have 5 frozen embryos still there and there are plenty of own egg success stories with her (btw I cycled with a 45 year old at same time who also got pg with twins - own egg, so can be done) x


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Yes another for serum here. Got pregnant at 42 OE with twins   nothing but praise for Penny and the serum team  

Grey sx


----------



## Syd72

Lechatgris, I've just been browsing on here.  As often happens I started off looking for one thing and ended up going off on tangent after tangent.  I discovered a woman that was on here a few years ago that had a baby aged 48.5 using own eggs, she cycled with the Lister.


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

That sounds fantastic Syd. Was that via IVF? I've heard some good things about Lister. How was your experience there? 

Are you still going to Greece thus month? Hope everything goes well X


----------



## Syd72

Hi Sunflower, yes, she said it was OE IVF, Lister weren't keen to do it because of the odds but agreed providing she was fully aware it was unlikely to work.  That's the first time I've heard of it working with OE at that age, fantastic!

I liked the Lister, it was always extremely busy and their admin is a bit haphazard.  Staff were all very friendly though, I only did an IUI with them in the end.

Yes, fly out to Greece next week, arrive Thursday lunchtime.  Hoping for transfer a few days after that but it depends how my lining is and how things are going with my donor.


----------



## esj

Good luck *Syd72* ! Thinking of you xx


----------



## Laquinn

Good luck Syd!   

On my first superovulation cycle - day 3 of Letrozole   Had to have a cytoscopy today   (yuck!) because of all the UTI's I had last year; I think most of them were due to too much 'trying'!   All clear but now I'm bit worried it might have something to do with endometriosis but not sure it's worth pursuing a laproscopy. Anyone else had one? 

Hello to everyone else - hope all are well   xxx


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi

Hope everyone is ok. I saw this YouTube clip of a 47 year old conceiving naturally after going through menopause 7 years previously.

Enjoy x


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Laquinn - good luck with your super ovulation. 

Sorry to hear of problems with UTIs. Sorry I can’t help with your query. Thought the HyCoSy may have picked up on any womb problems. Could the clinic who did the procedure advise? 

X


----------



## Laquinn

Sunflowerseeds - Great clip. Probably does illustrate the numbers game theory perfectly; wait long enough and a good egg will come along eventually! Maybe being on HRT helped? 

On my last day of Letrozole today - getting scanned on Monday so fingers crossed for some good eggs. HyCoSy was all fine but the consultant said a lap is the only way to check there's definitely no endo. The immunes testing that I had done also has markers that would have shown it up. I think the UTIs are just from too much trying! From the wee bit of googling I done I found out superovulation is good for endo and may help with implantation problems in older women... Hopefully it's our golden bullet! 

How are you getting on?

X


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Laquinn, 

Fingers crossed for some good eggs. Are you doing your super ovulation via Mr S? 

Interesting information about super ovulation on endo. I would have thought that more hormones would cause it to play up. 

AFM - doing lots of read and trying to consider next steps. Thinking of embryo banking and then having FET. Been advised this is better option to allow my body to settle after stimulation. I would like to try naturally but not sure if OH fertility will return so only option is our stored sperm. Due to test him again in February but concerned that the clock is ticking and we need to progress. We would really love our own family and want to maximise on all our options. 

Hope your scan goes well on Monday.

X


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Sunflowerseeds,

Yes, superovulation via Mr S. The Letrozole suppresses estrogen which causes your FSH and LH to rise and in theory make your ovaries release more eggs... Fingers crossed it works. I have to get FSH, LH and Estrogen tested again next month. OH is getting SpermComet test later this month. With stories like the one in the clip you wonder if all these tests are actually more of a hindrance than a help...

Embryo banking sounds like a good way forward - I've seen people on here have success with that. Could you do superovulation cycles with IUI? 

X


----------



## Syd72

Thanks for the good wishes ladies, arriving in Athens this afternoon.

Sunflower, that sounds like a good plan x


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Laquinn and Syd - Thanks for the advice.

Laquinn - I'll be keen to try IUI but potentially we could wasting a lot of time over several months as well as using more of our higher quality stored sperm. We could still have to try IVF again or switch to donor in which case we will be left with the lower quality sperm. We think it's a bigger risk, at least with banking we could see what's being fertilised. OH has agreed to 2 or 3 cycles for embryo banking then doing FET. He seems relaxed ish with this approach. 

Didn't do the tests with Mr S in the end as he advised the treatment would be more or less the same regardless of the outcome. We also explored Prof Q and Dr G. Think it's about getting my body baby friendly. I know I've got CD56 and CD19 that needs sorting. I've been researching immunology support for FET as think this will be key. 

Syd - hope everything goes well with your ET. 

All - hope everyone else is ok. You all seem very quiet. 

Take care X


----------



## Laquinn

Sunflowerseeds - Sounds like you're on the right track and you've narrowed all the options down. Will you go back to Create for embryo banking?

X


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Thanks Laquinn, 

I'm not sure. Trying to explore and weight up our options. I like the medics there but not sure if they can fully support with immune issue. Really like Serum, think their customer services is fantastic but they would offer the same treatment and are very willing to explore options. OH thinks it's a numbers game. I'm convinced immune system impact on so much. We'll see.

Where are going for your treatment/scan? 

X


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Sunflowerseeds,

Nice one - so you can take an immune protocol from an immunologist to one of those. Yes, from my experience I think it's important to get immunes sorted first too.

Getting the scan in Glasgow then sending the results to Mr S to consult on. If I get pregnant I'll have to fly down to see him. Really hope my ovaries respond well. I did find a superovulation thread where someone had no luck with the stims but then used Angus Castus and bingo - bfp. OH still has to get SpermComet test done in a couple of week's time.

X


----------



## Anna20162016

Ladies 
thanks for the advise ,  Serum are in Dublin on Saturday and I'm meant to be going in but waiting for a confirmation, Starting a max protocol this weekend 
300 gonal f/300 menupor , I swear that fematab turns me into a lunatic, I find that harder than the shots at max dosage.  It just kills me, I'm literally fit to kill walking around, it's nuts what HRT does to you.

I'm hoping I'll get something good this time, 5200 euro for the pleasure so please God something comes up. 

I also have a Gennet protocol so maybe there next if this is a bad result again.  
I'm going to read and catch up on everyone on this tomorrow,  best to anyone starting treatment 
x


----------



## highlandgirl

Heeellllooo Ladies!

Happy New Year! Heres to 2018 and some babies!

As always sorry for the hiatus again!
Xmas / NY / Holiday and now just getting back to normality....

Can’t believe how fast things move when you are away from the board for a couple of weeks! 
I have had to literally copy and paste everyones comments then answer each one and then create an entire document to post back there’s dedication for ya! 


Laquinn – UTI !! OMG that’s a nightmare ending up in OOO you are doing way too much of the BD lol! Glad your Cytoscopy was all clear.
I managed to only put on 6 pounds across the festivities and the holiday – I am determined to keep both the weight management / loss going in tandem with the treatments as I want to be as healthy as possible wherever this journey goes..
I am still using both the CB products but the monitor is only good if you keep using it and as you will see from my update it’s all gone a bit Pete Tong so will have to be leaving it for now which is a waste of ££ but like anything on this journey £ just seems to keep rolling out your pockets…££!!
Temping seems to get a lot of press and there is a sensor called ovusense which you insert at night and it downloads data onto your phone each morning so if anyone was into that I think it would be better than the conventional thermometer etc? FF app did my head in I still prefer Ovia for capturing everything.
I can’t believe you are now done with round 1 of Letrozole well done lady! How did you find it?
Any side effects? Did you get a day 2 scan before you started?
Good luck with Mondays scan! I am sure you will find it has helped you produce more follicles keep a note of the sizes and your lining and write it down as they don’t give you a note of them  – do you have to use a trigger shot for OV? 
The Superovulation does seem to help with the endo and implantation and in particular Letrozole as it doesn’t thin your lining – both cycles mine was over 10mm but only 5mm on Clomid WT!!!!
Here’s hoping Dr S immune protocol has helped you clear any other issues as well? 
Good luck to DH for the Comet Test 

Lechatgris – Go for it if you already have ordered the meds and sperm then you are half way there! Wishing you all the luck in the world there are many single women and with partners using DS who have success so why not you? Keep drinking the coffee and go for it and keep us posted? 
I haven’t heard of the trial but I do know that CoQ10 can also help with the energy of the mitochondria in the egg – I take 900mg per day 

Syd – By the time you read this you will already be in Greece – jeez it feels like it has come around quickly ( maybe not for you tho  )
I hope the transfer went well and have a good lining for those embies! – so excited to hear how you get on! I am sure I have mentioned this before but my good friend has twins by donor IVF and had them at 45.. will you be putting back more than 1?
On the subject of natural pregnancies at 45 or over I don’t know if any of you are on ** ( not my thing to post I am more of a viewer ) I joined a page called over 45 TTC and it is great as it gives me hope because these ladies are all over 40 and a lot of them are getting pregnant with a lot of natural pregnancies all over the world!

Anna 20162016 – Welcome to the thread!
I am sure you will find support and advice in abundance here
There is another thread for the Stem Cell treatment if you want to investigate that option further?
You still have a good AMH and seem to produce a good number of eggs so I would still go for it! It only takes 1….
Serum definitely seem to be a great place for IVF with OE so if they are in Ireland it would make sense to scope them out if they are on your doorstep?
The meds can make you crazy but just keep thinking it will all be worth it 
I think we all try as much as we can to know that if nothing works we have tried everything but we are not done yet!

Flyby – Hello glad to see you are still here to share your success xx
Blondie 71 – Hello! Do you think you will go back for your frosties?? x
Greyhound – Firstly thank you for being our moderator  and thanks for the support xx
ESJ – How are you doing?? xx

Sunflowerseeds – I have heard a lot about the FET to let your body recover after any egg retrieval and its benefits – kind of makes sense to heal after any TX and then pop back the embies?
What treatment were you thinking of for the embryo banking and where is best for it?
Again Serum seem to be great for OE?
At least you still have the stored higher quality sperm and February is just around the corner so maybe DH swimmers will make a return and you will have the option of fresh to use as well?
Would create natural / mini ivf using the higher quality sperm be an option and freeze all on a 3 cycle?
The immunes and being baby ready are definitely a huge part of what helps I wish I could have convinced DH to see Dr S 

AFM – Where do I start?
Had a great festive period and great holiday but started AF on day 18 which was on the 3rd day of our holiday FFS!!!
WTF an 18 day cycle? I have kept a note and the same thing happened last Feb? Bizarre but I do think all the drinking and eating over the festivities just knocked me out of kilter!
Plus side only put on 6 pounds since xmas eve go me!
I went for an AFC on day 9 when we got back from hols as I wanted to know what was going on and it seems I was actually on day 9 of a cycle – 3 follicles and an 8.1mm lining!
Anyways I contacted both my clinics ( I know what am I like a clinic tart taking advice from 2 at the same time lol ) and asked them what their thoughts were and I wanted to use the GONAL F I still have from my IVF tx which has been in my fridge and exp feb 2018!
I’m not wasting that says I! so one of my clinics came back to say use it for the next 4 days get a scan and trigger so here we are day 3 of the Gonal F and getting a scan today as I feel I may OV before Monday so don’t want to miss the chance, I will trigger if I get any follicles big enough!  xx


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## Syd72

Highlandgirl, you're so good with the personals   That is so strange that it's happened to you this time of year twice!  And flipping annoying.  Love the clinic tart comment, let us know how it goes today.

I do actually feel it's come around fast even though back in October it felt like a lifetime away.  Haven't transferred yet.  My lining isn't there yet which is disappointing, only 7mm yesterday which is unusual for me, I've never down regged before so maybe that's the problem, also not triple lined.  On the plus side, the donor isn't ready yet either, they're saying maybe Monday for her ec.  That's also worrying me because she seems to be taking longer than anyone elses donor.  I think I'm just feeling a bit down.  I had to hedge my bets with flights as booking at the last minute from Hong Kong is just too expensive so I'm going to be in Athens for about 10 days now which really wasn't necessary.  I don't want to use up my leave so I'll work from here but the wifi in the apartment I'm staying in isn't working, the guy who owns the apartment is being lovely about it and really trying to get it sorted.  He said either I could work from a studio he sometimes uses and he would pick me up and drop me off, very kind but I don't really want to be beholden to a stranger in a city I don't know well and don't speak the language.  As an alternative he's arranged with the cafe next to the apartment that I can sit there and work using their wifi, he's also said anything I eat or drink through the day he will pay for.  All extremely kind but of course it being Greece, everyone smokes indoors.  By the time I'd been in the cafe an hour I was feeling sick and had a headache.  Think I'll have to come up with another option for next week.  Also it's COLD!  Not by UK standards, 10 degrees today, but apartments in Athens are like Hong Kong, really not geared up for the winter so although there is kind of heating, it's not at all effective.  All in all I'm just a bit miserable.  On the plus side there's a group of ladies out here at the moment at various stages in their cycle and wé're meeting up for dinner tonight.

Hi to everyone else and sorry for the very "me" post, I seriously need to get out of this cafe and into some fresh air!


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## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - Good to hear you enjoyed your hollibags  

Well done on only putting 6 pounds over the festive! I've got half a stone to lose to get back into the healthy weight range  
No headaches or breast tenderness for me on the Letrozole but feeling tired, hungry and a wee bit emotional   How did the Letrozole affect you?
Kind of excited about my first cycle with stims   Just getting a scan on CD12 and using internet cheapies for ov.
Who knows what the immunes or any of the stuff I'm taking is doing (!) but I'm not getting any side-effects so that's good. For now I put my faith in Mr S! 
I don't have a trigger shot yet - just waiting to see how the scan goes and what Mr S advises...

I guess travel and change in diet could affect your cycle to make it shorter? 
3 follicles and an 8.1mm lining sounds good!  
So you take Gonal F later in your cycle?
Here's hoping for some good follies all round for us!   xx

Syd - Hope you can resolve your wi-fi and heating issues soon. Could you tether your laptop to your phone or something?
What about these wee heaters you can make with a flower pot and a candle? Supposed to work really well.
Good you're getting out with some company tonight. Fingers crossed everything lines up for you   X


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## Greyhoundgal

Highlandgirl - thank you for the thanks ref moderating but actually it’s the lovely Maggiephatcat who looks after you all here    I just read and pop in occasionally for my own benefit I’m afraid   though I’m an interloper really as haven’t got OH to agree to go again yet   I do moderate some other boards though  

Lots of babydust   to you all

Grey xx


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## highlandgirl

Syd - I get you with the Athens culture DH sister lives there and we visited a few years ago - everyone bloody smokes! I hope you met some good ladies for support when you had your dinner date last night 
You could visit the parthenon / acropolis etc and do a bit of sight seeing to take your mind off it it is a sight to see! Can you try and get a hotel with wifi you could camp out in during the day to work and then go back to the apartment to sleep etc? I have travelled a lot with my previous life before we had our business so I hear ya with the "wifi woes" as Laquinn says maybe tether your phone but the whole mobile reception there will be ropey as well no doubt! Stay sane syd it will all be worth it in the end 


Laquinn - Even tho I lost the 2.5 stone I'm still not in the healthy weight range - always had an issue with food and either too thin or too heavy but seems to be ok for now need to keep the TTC and healthy me going in tandem!
Letrozole only made me have a banging headache and a bit tired but otherwise ok and I got 3-4 follies etc time. It is exciting when you stim as I think somehow you feel you are"doing something" even tho its adding more into our already fragile being! lol!!
I am sure Dr S immunes protocol will be helping you and I am waiting with baited breath for your scan lol lol !! Just keep poas so that you know if you are "ready" as if you are not triggering and you usually ov around now you need to control when to BD  
Gonal F is usually used in an IVF protocol but sometimes in super ov cycle and is taken at different stages but I asked my consultant if I could use it as it was going to expire and at £400 a pen ( which has 900iu of the stuff in it ) I wasnt going to let it go to waste!


Greyhoundgal - sorry confused you and Maggiephatcat  but thanks to you both anyways! You keep lurking and posting we welcome anyone here 

AFM - Had a scan yesterday and now have 2 x 16.5mm and 1 x 10mm follicles plus a 10.1mm lining so the Gonal F did its job   I now have to do my trigger shot today and get on it tomorrow lol!!!!! whoop this journey is a F.... rollercoaster sorry for the swears but I am a Glaswegian and I cant help the billy connolly in me coming out sometimes.... 
Wish me luck ladies I'm going in!


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## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - You can take the girl out of Glasgow... lol lol!  
I got the Letrozole headache last night   Don't know if it was the Letrozole or being excited about the stims that stopped me sleeping well too.  
Thanks for the superovulation advice - feel so green about all of this!   CD10 today and no sign of LH surge. Going for Sperm Meets Egg approach of BD every other day from CD8 until I see the line. 
Good you got to use up your Gonal F - could be one of those cycles that goes down in FF history then everyone will be trying the new Highlandgirl protocol!    

Going to try and go out and negotiate the ice today - what's it like up your way?


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## highlandgirl

Laquinn - I hear ya with the headache but it will go away    once you get your scan you will feel more confident - I'm praying you have a good lining and there are a few big Juicy Lucy's in there!EEK! it is exciting! remember to write it down they talk really fast and you want to actually have the pad on you when you are hearing this or write it soon after!! 
Really bloated which is a side effect of the stims but hopefully I will just get bigger lol!  
I have now triggered and BD so I'm now in the 2WW here we go! you are not far behind me I am on CD14 today 
Icy Spicy here brrrr was minus 14 last night! Stay warm ladies!!!! 
xx


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## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - I had 12 follicles, 2 biggies one on either side at 21mm and 22mm. Lining was 7.8. Just waiting to hear back from Mr S for next steps  
Feeling bloated too  
CD12 today so hopefully will be joining you in the 2ww soon!  
Very icy in the Weeg today...  

Does anyone know what herbal teas are safe to drink in the 2ww?
xx


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## Syd72

Great news on the scans Highland and Laquinn.  Not sure on herbal teas I'm afraid, maybe nettle?  I think I saw that was a generally good one (doesn't taste very nice though).

Things are looking much brighter today.  Wifi is fixed, my lining is 10mm and trilaminar, donor has egg collection today so transfer is booked for Saturday.  I'll leave here Sunday and stop off in Abu Dhabi for a few days rest and relaxation


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## highlandgirl

Laquinn – Jeez 12 follicles you are doing great! And one each side that’s fab! Those are 2 good sizes and a great lining too 
You should ov soon I would think ? and then we will be in it together the 2WW! EEK! 
The trigger gives you all the symptoms of being BFP so it’s a bugger as you get the whole bloated / sore boobs / nausea blah blah blah and if you poas its positive and can take around 8-10 days to come out your system so it’s a waiting game now! 
Do you have a Holland and Barrett near you? They are usually great for advice on all things herbal etc? 
Xx

Syd – Wow its coming along nicely now …. 10mm lining / donor eggs collected / transfer booked and a trip to Abu Dhabi you are living the dream lady!! And WIFI?!?! So praying for you Syd that you get a great egg and it sticks keep us posted when you have your package on board so to speak  !  xxx LOL xxx

AFM – All good here just trying to distract myself and starting progesterone suppositories tomorrow YUK never had to insert them in the V!! EEEEKKKK!! Prescribed 200mg Cyclogest 3 times a day for the next 7 days then a progesterone blood test and then keep going or increase the dose if the bloods are not 75 + - Not looking forward to this section of the plan ladies!! XX


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## Laquinn

Syd - Good to hear your stars are aligning   Abu Dhabi sounds amazing from the ice age here! I've got nettle tea in the cupboard actually - might brave it...

Highlandgirl - Not heard back from Mr S yet... Hopefully tomorrow. OPK picking up LH so I might ovulate before I get a chance to trigger - does it make a big difference either way?
I'll pop into H&B tomorrow. I like decaf Earl Grey but I read it can interfere with folate absorption  
I might get my progesterone level tested this month to see if I need Cyclogest in the tww too. Mr S says from BFP.
Fingers crossed this is the cycle!     XX


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## lechatgris

Hi all, 
Thanks so much for your kind responses, which I have read through. I kind of went off the deep end for a while. I decided to move forward, and it has been very tough, emotionally and physically. More on that later, when I get home Thursday. I am in Copenhagen now. I had 6 follicles develop, but the ones on my left ovary they said were too small, and there were three on the right, which they aspirated this morning. Unfortunately, this only yielded ONE egg. I was doing low-stim/mini IVF, but the one egg result makes me feel that taking any meds at all is not worth it, since I would have produced that egg anyway. I know what my chances are, but who knows? The embryologist immediately said, "But it looks like a good egg," so who knows. Maybe I will get lucky and that egg will be healthy and become an embryo that sticks. Embryo transfer is Wednesday. Will keep you posted and fill in the info about this clinic (not great, unfortunately, including them arbitrarily increasing the price on me by almost 800 euros after I had already started the whole thing) and respond to you all then. xo


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## lechatgris

PS. Can you veterans of IVF tell me how long the pain lasts after egg collection? They did not put me out and only used topical anesthetic, which hurt quite a bit, and now I am SO sore in my abdomen and ovaries. The upside to not getting general anesthetic is being able to watch them drain the follicles on the screen. How cool! 

PPS. Because my clinic has been AWFUL about communication, I just want to make sure I am not supposed to be taking any med right now yet, correct, between the egg collection and embryo transfer? I read somewhere that you get progesterone (which they also haven't told me about) after the embryo transfer, but I am not supposed to be on that yet, correct? My uterine lining will stay thick until the embryo transfer even though they removed my egg from my ovary?


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## Flyby

I think I used to start progesterone the day before transfer.


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## Syd72

I'm sure I took progesterone from day before transfer too.  I'm already on it this cycle, started yesterday which was day of donor egg collection but I assume that's because I was down regged last month so won't be making any naturally.  I believe Serum tests progesterone levels on day of transfer but again, that may just be for donor ivf.

Got everything crossed for your egg being the one!

Thanks Laquiinn and Highland.  I fly through Abu Dhabi on the way home so it seemed a shame not to


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## Laquinn

lechatgris - Only takes one egg!  Fingers crossed this is the one 

Highlandgirl is doing superovulation under instruction from an online service I think? This one? https://naturalfertilitybreakthrough.com

AFM It was too late to trigger for my superovulation cycle so I'm going in! Will be in the tww tomorrow (I think!) So I am still a trigger shot virgin 

Hope everyone else is doing well? xx


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## Blue dolphin

Laquinn - thank you for the link. That is really useful. 

Fingers crossed for everyone.
Blue x


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## Laquinn

Blue dolphin -   How are you getting on? x


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## Blondie71

Aww fingers crossed for everybody, lots of reading updates so apologies if can't keep track but really hoping for some miracles this month and beyond 🙏🙏🙏


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## lechatgris

Thanks so much for your help, everyone! I really appreciate it. 

They are doing the embryo transfer (if it has fertilized- of course they didn't communicate anything with me since retrieval yesterday morning) on day 2 (52 hours after retrieval). All over the Internet, people seem to get day 3 or day 5 transfers. Is day 2 normal? Anyway, it's very difficult to have a conversation with these doctors, and I am definitely not pleased with this clinic, but seeing this through and trying to get answers from the Internet and you guys. Isn't day 2 way too early to but the embryo in? 

Also, can I take a Xanax before the transfer? I am not getting acupuncture and think this will relax me, which will help. Online, others say they have actually had their doctors give it (or Valium) before the transfer to relax the uterus, but I don't want to do anything to jeopardize the embryo. There's only one! 

Thanks!


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## highlandgirl

Laquinn - Trigger or not you will have ov so its game on whoop! This is the fine line trying to control getting big follicles but still seeing if you need to trigger or not I think if you ov on your own its better as I mentioned before the side effects of the trigger are not great! xx
My Gonal F was 1 pen x 900iu I had left over from my IVF cycle in 2016 which I had with GCRM in Glasgow through Dr Marco Gaudoin and I went back to them to ask if I could use it for this cycle and they agreed but I did have them monitor me during taking it via my fertility scans I have up at the hospital here. 
https://naturalfertilitybreakthrough.com is Gabriella Rosa - she is an Australian fertility specialist who runs a programme to assist with IVF / Natural / Donor conception and she is great I have had a free consultation over the telephone with her and she runs a free web based programme which anyone can participate in which is very useful. Her clinic is a virtual one but you can buy in to her assistance and she has clients all over the world. 
www.ivfmatters.com is the online service I have used for some of the blood investigations we have had and I also use Dr Irfana Koita form there for my second opinion consultations. She was the one who suggested all of the tests etc the DH and I have had recently to make sure we covered all of the bases for trying naturally and I really rate her. 
The whole progesterone supplementation is new to me I always got a blood test 7 days after ov to check my level and mostly they came back around 30 + apart from one letrozole cycle it was 68 so I guess that was my closest I got to any success? Your level should be above 30 to confirm ov but if you are medicating it should be at least 75 - 100 and this is where the meds come in. I am taking cyclogest pessaries 200mg x twice a day ( prescribed by my GP ) from ov and will get the bloods checked next Tuesday as this is the first day my nurse is free if the results are not 75 I need to increase the dose until either AF arrives or BFP. I have then been instructed if its BFP to keep going until 16weeks.
I have felt nauseous since taking it along with the trigger and if I ever feel like that I start eating so guess what 4 pounds heavier! AARRGGH!! Can't undo all my good work so back to plan tomorrow! Ggrrrrr&#8230;.

Syd - How are you?
I am sending you positive energy all the way from the Highlands here please keep us posted xx

Lechatgris - Good luck for today 
I didn't take any meds between collection and transfer and I didn't take anything for transfer it was just like having a smear and was over very quickly. 
My 2 embryos were put back on day 2 as the clinic say its better for us more mature ladies to have them back into their natural environment asap.
I would not advise any self-medication especially with the Gonal F etc I would always get monitoring scans and bloods and I would go back to whoever prescribed those meds to you and see if they can help with that or get scans / bloods closer to home and send the results to the prescribing clinic to review and advise.
It only takes 1 embyro Lechatgris lets pray this one is your lucky one! xx

Blue Dolphin - Hello and have a look at Gabiella shes great and lots of great info on the website. Where are you at on your journey? Xx

Blondie71 - Hello there! Thanks for your positive thoughts! Are you looking at trying again at all?? xx

AFM - as mentioned before just feel nauseous with both the trigger and progesterone so need to give myself a boot up the bum and stop eating! just waiting for bloods on Tuesday to see if we are going in the right direction - now 3DPO from the trigger and this 2ww is a right head twister lol!  xx


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## Syd72

Thanks Highland.  The donor produced 10 eggs and the next day we had 7 embys which I'm very happy with.  They deliberately don't overstim the donors here as they don't think it's good for them or the eggs.  I won't hear anything else now til Saturday when hopefully I'll have a few blasts.  What are they looking for in your bloods on Tuesday - progesterone levels?  I had to start the dreaded progesterone pessaries Monday night, and from this Friday I have to take them orally as well which is a new one for me!

Lechatgris, I've spent a lot of time googling xanax because I take it for flying - I'm terrified of flying yet do very regular long haul flights.  After my first transfer a year ago I was getting straight on to a 12 hr flight and I did take one then because I thought the stress would be worse for me than the tablet, that round resulted in a bfn.  I also took one to fly back to Hong Kong from the UK last August just a few days before getting a bfp and miscarried at 8 weeks.  I'm not in any way suggesting the tables were responsible for the bfn and miscarriage, I'm sure both of those things would have happened if I hadn't taken anything  There's so much mixed info about xanax on the internet, lots of people that take it daily seem to be advised to continue it through pregnancy as their anxiety if they come off will be worse than the potential effects of the tablet.  However, it is definitely one that is listed not safe to take in pregnancy and my gp in Hong Kong has said I mustn't take it.  I have transfer on Saturday and then have to get back to Hong Kong and have decided not to take one this time, that's part of the reason I've split my flight back by spending time in Abu Dhabi, so I don't have to get through 13 hours in the air.

Sorry, that got a bit long-winded but on balance I would say don't take anything.  Do you have particular anxiety around transfer?  As Highland has mentioned, it's very straightforward, I actually found it even easier than a smear.  I can't remember if you had a scratch before this round but the transfer in no way compares to the scratch.  I found the scratch painful but didn't even feel the transfer.


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## highlandgirl

Thanks Highland.  The donor produced 10 eggs and the next day we had 7 embys which I'm very happy with.  They deliberately don't overstim the donors here as they don't think it's good for them or the eggs.  I won't hear anything else now til Saturday when hopefully I'll have a few blasts.  What are they looking for in your bloods on Tuesday - progesterone levels?  I had to start the dreaded progesterone pessaries Monday night, and from this Friday I have to take them orally as well which is a new one for me!


Syd - that's great news 7 embies wow! When and how many will you transfer? They will check my progesterone level as it should be at least 75 because of the Gonal F if not I need to up the progesterone although I will only have a couple of days after that until AF is due eek! I was ok with the first pessary but the second one slipped out lol! Do you get side effects with progesterone? xx


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## Syd72

I know, I'm really pleased   Transferring on Saturday, will go with what the clinic advise but hoping to transfer 2.

No side effects have kicked in yet but I remember when I've been on them previously I get a bit crampy - basically exactly like both early pregnancy and pre-AF which is a bummger because you just can't distinguish the symptoms.  You do have to push them really high up, I had one yesterday that I don't think I put in high enough...


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## highlandgirl

Syd - that's great news Saturday will come around soon    I would go for 2 if I were you as you should still have more left if you needed! I hear ya on the high enough chat - I have a long ...? ( not sure how to put that ) so I pushed it up as far as it would go but I'm not sure if its going to stay there sorry TMI LOL!!
I came back into the office and have been sitting here ever since to make sure it doesn't pop out again FFS!!!! 
Some people say lie down after it but I cant be lying down 2 or 3 times a day for 10 mins each time?!?!? xx


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## Laquinn

Blondie - Thanks! Got to keep hoping  

lechatgris - Good luck for the transfer!   What about taking rescue remedy and/or doing Headspace to relax?

Highlandgirl - Thanks for the info. Oh no - nausea is the worst   Good luck with the bloods today. Ah the dreaded tww. I find it so hard to stay positive   Are you going to test early?

Syd - Congrats on the embies! All the best for Saturday  

AFM - 1DPO according to Fertility Friend. Mr S asked me to test 10DPO and if it's negative we can get ready to do another superovulation cycle. I guess I'll have to scan earlier to trigger... For now I remain a trigger shot and pessary virgin!  

Good luck everyone!!! xx


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## highlandgirl

Laquinn - eek! onto the 2WW here we go! Of course I will test early I'm nuts! I am actually testing now and have done since 1DPO because the trigger shows a BFP on the FRER tests until it is out of your system which can be between 5 - 10 days post trigger just nice timing for checking if it stays BFP its a bloody rollercoaster and I am a bit of a testing junkie in case you haven't guessed - OCD and all that lol lol xx
Stay a trigger and pessary virgin as long as you can its not all its cracked up to be! ...

I cant believe we have some possible BFPs coming we need some hope and encouragement on this thread for us more wise ladies shall we say?    xx


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## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - I salute your nuttiness testing every day!   I'm waiting 'til 10DPO because I'm fed up POAS and can't handle the bfns  

Yes! Need to stay positive     I have PMDD which makes the 2ww even harder. Some people take anti-depressants for it but I'm just trying to deal with it with CBT and meditation. I know when I'm in the tww because my mood dips but I think I am just knackered from all the BDing!  

Bring on the BFPs!!!    xx


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## highlandgirl

I hear ya - I cant help myself its the whole control OCD syndrome its craayyyyzzzeee   !!! 
Can you keep listening to the ZW meditation and busy yourself during the 2WW to help the PMDD? Take a trip up and visit me LOL LOL!! I suppose you only have 9 days and counting?!   the whole thing is knackering I woke up on the couch at 10.34pm last night DH had left me there! I ended up back up at 2.30am couldn't sleep and the bloody dog wanted out so I'm done in today!
Praying for the BFPS!!! x


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## JasB171

Hi all,

I hope it's ok for me to join in to this conversation.  I am just looking for a bit of advice from you lovely ladies. 

I am not quite 45, but will be in a couple of months.  I have gotten pregnant twice naturally - the first time when I was 42.5 (ended in MMC at almost 11 weeks) and then in October last year when I was 44.5 (chemical pregnancy).  I have done one round of IVF overseas (in July last year), but we are finding it very tricky to manage given the lack of certainty as to when we might go out for treatment and work commitments.  

I was just wondering whether you know of any IVF clinics in the UK (preferably south east/London) that would still treat someone aged 45 with their own eggs?  I should add that my stats aren't great - I last had my FSH and AMH tested in February last year. My FSH was 11.5 and my AMH was 1.9pmol/L.  I know they will only be worse now.  So I know I am not a good bet for clinics, but I would really like to try at least one more IVF round before I draw a line under the whole thing.

Would appreciate your thoughts!

Thanks so much!


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## highlandgirl

JasB171 - Welcome and thank you for joining us! sorry to hear about your journey so far but I am sure there are clinics who will treat you  I have had just 1 IVF cycle and that was just before my 46th birthday but the clinic was in Glasgow!
I think that Create could be a good option I would have gone there if they were closer - but I know the ladies on here will have better advice for south of the border! 
If you can get any testing / scans carried out as close to home as possible even NHS or GP wise it does take away the stress but you will need to really investigate what services are available closest to you?
I never knew my local hospital did private bloods and scans for example!
Whatever you choose to do keep us posted and ask away.... it only takes one egg xx


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## lechatgris

Well, ladies, my IVF journey is over.   The embryo stopped developing, they discovered when they checked it this morning. This chaotic, disorganized clinic (would NOT recommend them, for many reasons) then of course left a message on my answering machine in Amsterdam and didn't call my cell phone. I had emailed them last night to ask if I could leave my luggage there for a few hours after the embryo transfer. So literally when I was on my way there for the transfer, I got the email that they had canceled my transfer because the embryo had failed to develop (it did fertilize and divided to 2 cells, but then stopped.) And I spent all last night doing meditations to relax my uterus, and this morning listened to binaural beats, etc., worrying about taking Xanax, all for nothing.

I still went to the clinic, because I didn't know where else to go. And I did talk to the doctor. He was nice and talked to me a bit, which is the first time any doctor there has been willing to spend more than 5 minutes with me. I would not go to that clinic (Copenhagen Fertility Center) ever again. They are a chaotic mess. Different doctor every time you go in, and they never seem to know anything about your case. I am not even convinced they do their best to increase chances there. They are very hasty and seem to cut a lot of corners. You feel like you are on a conveyor belt, just a dollar sign to them. No privacy (I had doctors, embrylogists, nurses, etc., walking in and out while I am there with my legs in the stirrups, and they don't give you anything to cover yourself). Not that I am blaming it all on the clinic. My eggs are 45 years old, and I know they can have chromosomal issues. I wish I had a partner. Weirdly, I feel like if I tried for a year naturally, I could get pregnant naturally maybe. I still ovulate, and it is a numbers game, as the doctor said too- out of every 10 eggs at 45 years old, only 1 or 2 is still high quality. He told me that it would be possible for me to do this with my own eggs, from everything they saw with me, but that it would take several cycles to get the right egg. It would be a matter of getting that one month where there is a high quality egg released. 

But I cannot do more IVF. I cannot afford it on my salary (as is, I will be paying this cycle off for a year or two), the stress was horrible, and I cannot go 100K euros into the hole, spending years doing cycle after cycle and traumatizing myself every time with failure. If I am not meant to be a mother, I am going to try to see the possible freedoms in that, and maybe the universe will open a path to motherhood in some other way- maybe I meet a man with kids. I am going to focus on manifesting a partner. Get super healthy, push the online dating (despite HATING how vulnerable it is), etc. Mother myself, if that makes sense.

More later. I am trying not to cry because I am in public, but I am sure when I get home it will all hit me emotionally. The worst thing about today is that I have to spend 6 more hours hanging around Copenhagen in a coffee shop, waiting to go to the airport. I just want to go home and crawl in my bed. 

Thank you so much to all of you. Just reading that there are other women my age going through it too helped me so much, especially as I was completely solo throughout all of this. xo I am going to keep reading this board to see how you all are doing and will be sending lots of good mojo for pregnancies for each of you!! I really think persistence is the key, if you have the money and stamina! <3


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## JasB171

Thanks highlandgirl for your very quick response!  I really appreciate it!  And good to know that there are clinics out there who are still willing to give us a go. However, were your basic tests better than mine? 

I had a look at Create, but thought that it said they would treat women up to the age of 44, so I figured I was out of the game there.  Maybe I'll give them a call sometime soon to check, although I am meant to be doing the long protocol at some point with my overseas clinic - I was meant to be doing it this month, but it was cancelled last weekend as my period didn't arrive in time (and still hasn't arrived - CD40 now and counting) so we wouldn't have got back to the UK in time for work stuff.

I have been having scans/tests done in London for the overseas clinic, but it's still tricky having to go out there for 10 days or so, so finding a clinic here would be better.  Although I have to confess that the thought of going through it all with a new clinic doesn't fill me with glee!

I really hope that that this trigger round works for you highlandgirl - wishing you all the luck!
x


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## JasB171

Just realised that your post came in just as I was posting mine, Lechatgris. I know I have only just joined this conversation, but I didn't want to just post and run.  

So sorry to hear what you have been through.  That sounds really terrible - I can't believe they didn't call your cell phone.  It sounds very unprofessional.  I am really sorry that you have had such a negative experience - the IVF route is hard enough without all of that.  I can imagine how low you are feeling now.  As for crying in the street, I've done that several times during this whole TTC thing (which I never thought I would do, being a very private person) -it's awful when you have no-where to go and just want to be at home.  Sending you virtual hugs. x


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## lechatgris

Thanks so much, JasB. It really helps to hear other people's experiences. <3


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## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - I get the OCD thing too; it makes you feel like you're doing something and you could make it like a POAS advent calender hopefully with a big fat BFP 10DPO 
I've got some fertility affirmations on an app I listen to which help but I went to a meditation class today and got argumentative with the instructor  Can Letrozole make you more argumentative?  I would love to visit you and get the full Highlandgirl experience  For now I want to lock myself in a hut, preferably with a big fire and lots cake! 

JasB - Welcome and thank you for sharing your experience  As Highlandgirl said Create might be a great fit for you; they treat older ladies and their mild ivf and natural protocols are supposed to be better for high FSH, low AMH I think. There's a thread for High FSH, low AMH which has some very knowledgeable ladies on it: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=535.0

lechatgris - So sorry to hear about your treatment by that clinic  So ugly when people treat us as an 'industry'. But I guess the good news is that you have a 10-1 or 5-1 chance of getting pregnant every cycle. What you said about mothering yourself really chimed with the Julia Indichova books I'm reading; we really need to take care of the child in ourselves throughout all of this. Sending a big virtual hug  It sounds like you are already learning from this terrible experience and forming plans to manifest a better future for yourself    XX


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## Syd72

highlandgirl said:


> Syd - that's great news Saturday will come around soon   I would go for 2 if I were you as you should still have more left if you needed! I hear ya on the high enough chat - I have a long ...? ( not sure how to put that ) so I pushed it up as far as it would go but I'm not sure if its going to stay there sorry TMI LOL!!
> I came back into the office and have been sitting here ever since to make sure it doesn't pop out again FFS!!!!
> Some people say lie down after it but I cant be lying down 2 or 3 times a day for 10 mins each time?!?!? xx


Ha ha, never tmi on here and I'm not sure how to describe it either 

Welcome Jas and sorry for your miscarriages. I'm out in Athens cycling with Serum at the moment and have met up with a couple of ladies that cycled with UK clinics in their 40s with not great stats - Create and Lister. Best of luck.

Laquinn I'm very jealous of all the bd'ing. My OH is so stressed at the moment it's pretty much off the table (plus we're currently in different countries...). I'm with you and Highland, I'm a terrible early tester. I know from others that are doing the same as me at Serum at the moment that OTD is 10dp5dt but since there's no hcg shot I know for sure I'll be testing waaayyyy earlier than that...

I'm so very sorry lechatgris, that is heartbreaking. I completely understand why you feel that you can't go through it again and I very much hope another path opens up to you. I just wanted to say that there are some clinics in Greece (not just Serum) that do treat ladies of our age with own eggs although I don't know success rates. These clinics, from my own experience and from looking on the Greece board, are all extremely caring and also are among the cheaper ones I think. Just a recommendation in case at some stage you do decide to try again. Please take care of yourself. On the subject of manifestation, I actually went to see a hypnotist/counselor a few years ago because I felt sure that something in me was blocking me from meeting someone, some negative thought pattern or something. She worked with me over a few sessions, I wasn't sure it was doing much at the time but just 6 months later my now boyfriend and I got together. I really do think that having the right mindset when trying to meet someone is absolutely key and that sounds like a great focus for you. Sending you lots of love.


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## JasB171

Laquinn and Syd72 – thanks for the info on Create and Lister. Those were the two that I had in mind from when I looked into this when first considering IVF, so maybe I will give them both a quick call to see if they have a cut off age as I think that’s where I could face issues (together with my crappy stats). If only I were 42 again, I think I would have many more possibilities…

Laquinn - thanks also for the thread on low AMH/high FSH – I may post on there to ask if anyone has any recommendations.  And I am so with you with the hut and big fire – although I think I’d take chocolate instead of cake and a large glass of red.

Syd – best of luck with your cycle out in Athens – I really hope it works out well for you!

And to all you ladies, having seen your history at the bottom of your posts (I’m yet to work out how to do that!), I’m so sorry for all your losses.  Let's hope 2018 is the year that delivers for us all!

x


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## Laquinn

Syd - Having a breather tonight   DH was BDing in his sleep last night!   He said he felt a bit strange when we got instructions for the first time to 'have intercourse'   Really hope you get a bfp And when the bubba comes along you'll be too tired to BD!  

JasB - Ah the glory days when I used to have a big bar of dark chocolate and a bottle of red wine  

AFM - Today I am mostly angry about work related stuff and I couldn't find my de-tangling comb ANYWHERE!   Crampy, bloated and in tww hell!   x


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## esj

*lechatgris* so sorry to hear your news. We can all empathise and feel your pain. Nothing worse than being forced to put on a brave face when all you want to do is lock yourself away and cry. I hope you have the support you need to get through this and move forward in the way thats best for you. 
Feeling a bit low again myself. Ive been avoiding thinking about my next steps lately. After last failure in late October I was adamant I didnt want to put myself through IVF again so been trying naturally with no luck still. Just finished my second cycle of Letrozole so will see what happens then potentially go to Serum for one last shot (that old chestnut!). Anyone with Letrozole experience/success know how many months it can be taken for? I didnt realise until reading the pack its actually a cancer drug which freaked me out a bit. The things we do in this quest! I never would have thought I'd even consider half of it!
The next step will be trying to persuade OH to try a donor cycle which will be a major task as he is not down with the idea at all. 
*Highland girl*- I have a gonal f pen in the fridge and a load of meds from serum too so might read up on the doc you mentioned.
*Syd72* Im so excited for you! I wish I were where you are right now. . I think my OH's resistance has really set me back in this respect. I really dont want to have to give him an ultimatum but it might come to that. Good luck tomorrow anyway.
Love and luck to everyone else.


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## Syd72

ESJ I'm so sorry you're not any further forward in getting your OH to even discuss DE.  I was chatting to another lady and her partner out here this week and he was saying he struggled with it, as you know my partner did too, it definitely seems to be the men that have a harder time with DE than the women.  Remind me, has he met Penny and talked with her about it?  Would he be willing to do that, even by skype?  That seemed to be the turning point for my OH, he was already starting to come round but meeting Penny really changed things.  Doing this as a DE cycle feels so different, not just because I'm not pumping myself full of stims but it just feels more hopeful.  Of course that means if it doesn't work I could be in for an even bigger crash but right now, I feel more positive than I have done since I started this whole journey.

Sorry ladies, I always feel really bad banging the DE drum on this thread as it's meant to be OE x

Laquinn, I'm still jealous  Hope work improves.

Thanks Jas.


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## Laquinn

esj - Sorry to hear you are feeling low   I think you can do Letrozole for 6 rounds if your lining dosen't get too thin and you can just take a break if it does and try again. They say most people are successful on the 4th or 5th cycle. My friend is taking it for breast cancer at the moment and I don't feel I can tell her I'm taking it too. Our consultant told us there was no point in doing OE IVF at this age so if superovulation doesn't work for us we're moving onto DE straight away. DH was sad as he said he'd like our baby to look like me but I told him about epigenetics and how my cells and the cells of our daughter who was born sleeping would influence gene expression with a donor egg baby. 

Syd - Good luck for tomorrow   You're right about DE - the odds are so much better.

AFM - Feeling really tired today   Got a mouth ulcer which I always get around ovulation.


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## Sunflowerseeds

Lechatgris - so sorry to hear what you're going through. This is such a tough process. I've cycled in Greece before and found the clinics there are very good with their communications and treatment. Please have faith that you will have your baby one day. Sending a massive hug.

Syd - the very wishes for your transfer tomorrow. 

JasB - think they are a few clinics who has ladies over 45 but don't think they actively promote this or have much results on their site. 

esj - good luck if you use your left over Gonal F and persuading your OH to have more treatment. 

esj and Laquinn - At times it appears our OH are not as keen as us to progress things but think their stigma isn't a much as ours. 

All - Fingers and toes crossed for all you Letrozole, natural TTC and IVF ladies. 

X


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## Sunflowerseeds

Laquinn - hope you get some energy soon and your mouth ulcer clears up. Is that related to your immune problem? 

X


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## Laquinn

sunflowerseeds - Not sure if it's related to the immune issues - I think it might be to do with hormonal fluctuations. I think it's hormones that are making me wake up really early in the morning with a busy head and not get a proper sleep. Feel better today but - maybe it's 'cause it's the weekend!  

Good luck today Syd and everyone else    

X


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## Blondie71

😂 highland girl you did make me laugh with the pessary thing 😂 bloody awful things lol.

Still on the fence about going back for frosties  (still have 4+ years storage phew) as both boys have significant disabilities and require a lot of care and not sure if down the line will get easier, I hope so 🙏 x


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## LuckyE

so sorry lehtegras. That happened to me too - I was gutted.   You will be a mother. 

Syd I'm gonna see soemone about unblocking negative thoughts about being a mother... I've done it with work so I know it can be done. 
FX this is your time. xx


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## Laquinn

Blondie - That must be very hard   Do you get support from any agencies, friends and family? Good to know that you have a lot of storage time for your frosties.

LuckyE - What did you do to unblock negative thoughts for work? I'm doing the kindness package on Headspace which is helping. I got a lot of CBT on the NHS when we lost our girl which I'm very grateful for. Just reading The Fertile Female just now and want to start using Julia Indichova's visualization exercises but I don't want to do anything different in the 2ww!

Syd - Hope the transfer went well  

Hope everyone else is doing well?   xx


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## esj

Hi All
Hope transfer went well Syd! Thanks to you and Laquinn, sunflowers seeds for comments below. Feeling a bit better and planning to contact serum this week.
Sorry to go off at a tangent here but wondered if anyone on this thread who has taken Letrozole noticed any effects on their period? Mine is way longer than usual after taking a 5 day course last week. Still have light bleeding/spotting on Day 9.
Any advice welcome thanks x


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## highlandgirl

Lechatgris – So sorry to hear about your awful experience this is a rollercoaster of a journey enough without having to go through it with a less than supportive clinic. I’m sure if we all had the £ and time the results could be very different…
Keep us posted of your plans and we will all be thinking of you xx

JasB171 – I have read on create web testimonials a while back they has success with a lady of 47 with her OE so have a look? We all wish we were 42 as I am sure we would all have made different choices… hindsight is a wonderful thing! Let us know how you get on with your search for a clinic. I also read the High FSH / Low AMH thread and there are some great ladies on there as well xx

Laquinn – I get the big fire and lots of cake and that pretty much what I have done for the last week or so! Put on 4 pounds and made a large dent on the wood pile !!! LOL I think I’m going even more nuts 
I am laughing at your DH BDing in his sleep LOL LOL you have ruined the poor man hahahaha!
It’s a real stresser timing the BD!! 
I had an episode of crankiness too and it was all a bit irrational but I think that is all hormone related! 
I say to my friends all the time if I turn into that hormonal banshee lady of around 50 (and we all know what I’m talking about) shoot me!
On the subject of sleep I am sure we all need more its soooooo underated!
I can get to sleep no problem but I’m not great if I get woken up as I then have the busy head as well.. what is this thing you call week / end? Our week is 7 days per week!

Syd – How did the transfer go – I am thinking of you in Abu Dhabi and hoping you are chilling out and are now officially PUPO! EEK! Xx

Esj – I have taken 2 rounds of Letrozole then stopped – tried naturally until my Gonal F cycle which I am in now – I must re-interate I do not think anyone should self-medicate especially with the IVF stim drugs as they are super strong so I would always say find a clinic who will monitor you and use scans to see where you are at follicle / lining wise?
I also have enough for another 2 rounds of Letrozole plus 1 trigger and I believe I can have another 2 after that = 6 in total.
Yes it is a cancer drug but then all the stims are all made to work with your hormones.
I would contact Serum and see what they feel is the best plan for you? I didn’t have any issues with the Letrozole and my AF but again its all the hormone interplay that can have an effect on everything xx

Sunflowerseeds – I hear ya on the OH persuasion chat – my DH and I are still only set on our OE but he’s happy for me to go through the stims / scans etc and he gets off scot free – lucky men!
Whats your plans Sunflowerseeds? Xx

Blondie71 – That must be a challenge for you but you sound like a strong lady! That’s good you have 4 years of storage left 

LuckyE – Sometimes I have the mental block and think its not going to happen / I’m stopping it happening / Im so scared it wont happen etc etc and I try to distract myself a lot of the time and not think about it which because I am so busy with our business its quite easy to be distracted – then I think you haven’t been concentrating on this enough and really mentally willing it to happen and I feel guilty – I cant win! Xx

AFM – Day 24 no sign of AF cramps and sore boobs though but having tested every day since trigger ( I can hear you all shouting various things at me lol … ) the line which is very strong on day 1 after trigger has disappeared by day 7 after trigger which is normal – I am now 11 days past trigger and still no second line so I reckon I am onto a BFN.
Just waiting on the last blood results for DH but still nothing has shown as abnormal so it is back to the drawing board.
I bought a product called Ovusense a while ago which is an internal thermometer which you insert at night and it takes your temp and tells you when you are in your fertile window and records this on your phone. I haven’t used it but I think I will try a natural cycle using that if this hasn’t worked and then maybe go back to back Letrozole with my last 2 sets of pills we shall see… xx


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## Laquinn

Esj - Good to hear you're feeling better and moving forward   Can't say about the Letrozole and AF for me as it's my first round but I'd guess it would be the effect on your estrogen levels that could change AF.

Highlandgirl - Cake and fire sound good!   Yup - poor hubby...cannae even have a wee beer to drown his sorrows!  
I hope we caught the egg - I was using internet cheapies but the line had pretty much gone by the time we'd stop BDing. The night of the strong line on the OPK I could feel the follies when we were BDing (sorry - tmi!). Couldn't feel them the day after...
I'm not feeling as cranky now just really tired, total Granny Annie needing wee naps in the afternoon!  
Yeah that waking up early with a busy head thing must be down the Letrozole. Hopefully it will be worth it!
It's maybe better to be busy than obsessing about the 2ww which I am totally doing! I found a 75 page thread of Letrozole success stories which I am working my way through to keep my pecker up!  
11 days past trigger is still early so don't write off this cycle yet  
Ovusense sounds good. But you have to insert it overnight?  
If I get a bfn on Friday I'm defo gonna get the meds booked in for next month   xx


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## highlandgirl

Laquinn - I hear ya about the follies they felt like I was carrying rocks on the Gonal F even though there were only 2 bigger ones!   What are you like having a nap someone just said to e they were going for a nana nap  WTF!! If I slept during the day I would be dead to the world and then not be able to sleep at night   Where is the 75 page thread? I might have to have a sneeky peak!
The Ovusense is inserted in at night and then you take it out in the morning but you only use it after AF until it tells you that you have OV but you can keep using it to track your cycle.
I will say a wee prayer for you for Friday!      

AFM - Just got my progesterone back and it was 21.9 which is really crap - even when I am on a natural cycle with no stims it is 30+ and 30+ means you have defo ov - with the super strong Gonal F and the BLOODY PESSARIES!! it should be over 100 so I know I'm out this month - cannot believe I went through all of that to get a lesser result than good old au naturale! FFS! Thats why I bought the Ovusense I am defo sticking  to that instead of the poas and will just try naturally or if I am going to take the Letrozole I wont take the trigger as it didnt help either


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## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - A nana nap  That's exactly right...
Here's that thread I was talking about here: https://community.babycenter.com/post/a32751333/femara_bfp_reporting_thread
Ovusense sounds good but I don't think I'd be comfortable with anything in my fandango over night - that's why I always wear pants in bed! 
Not holding my breath for Friday but I guess I'll have to test because the doc says to.
Don't give up hope - if it is a numbers game then maybe you had two not so brilliant quality eggs this month and that makes it more likely you'll get a good one next month    
There's another thread of ladies being treated by the clinic in Epsom where they talk about the accumulative effect of Letrozole... They say 80% of people will be pregnant by the 4th or 5th round...


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## esj

thanks Laquinn/Highland for advice. Serum prescribed me the Letrozole but Im not doing any monitoring other than OPK tests. do you think I should be having scans? And what trigger are you using? I do have some in the fridge leftover from last year. But if I ovulate naturally what is the reason for triggering? Just curious! Im emailing Penny at Serum this week anyway as I hear she's back at work after her terrible loss. I might do another month of Letrozole but Im currently in the dilemma of whether to try another cycle either clomid or low stim  natural. OH wants to, Im not so sure I can put myself through it. 
thanks for the thread btw will check it out. 
x


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## Laquinn

Esj - There was a lady on this thread, TTCNK, who had success using Letrozole without scans or a trigger. I've been prescribed Ovitrelle to trigger but follies were too big to use it this month and I ovulated just after I got scanned I think. I'm not sure what the reason is for triggering so if anyone else can weigh in and tell us I'd love to know! I'm pretty green about all of this so can't really advice about further steps; personally I'm trying to keep things as simple and as in harmony with my own body as possible. x


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## JasB171

Thanks ladies for your advice.  I may give Create and a few others a call, although I am currently wondering whether to just draw a line under it all. 

I was meant to be doing the long protocol this month but it hasn’t worked out (I’m still with my overseas clinic). I started down regging on day 21 of my cycle, but no period has arrived. I’m now on day 49 (I have NEVER gone longer than 33 days). I stopped taking the meds after 14 days as I knew I would then not be able to fit in the cycle due to work commitments, but still no sign of AF. I had a scan on Monday that showed Just one follicle and a thinnish lining, so I can only assume that my ovaries are giving up.  So I’m not sure whether it’s worth exploring clinics in the UK.

Highlandgirl - sorry to hear about your progesterone levels. That doesn’t make any sense at all after using the nasty pessaries 😞  if that is definitely it for this month, I wish you all the best for next month! 

Syd - best of luck in your 2ww!

As for the triggering, is it not something to do with maturing the eggs before ovulation (or collection if IVFing)? Not 100% sure though. 

X


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## Laquinn

JasB - I think Create specialise in short protocol which is supposed to have better results with us older ladies. Maybe your body just didn't react well to the long protocol? X


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## razzyCup

Sorry ladies if this is the wrong forum - I posted a new thread in the over 40s forum and was told how friendly people were here so here goes...

I'm 45 and been trying for 8 years for a sibling for my 10yo. So firstly I appreciate that I am blessed with a child and I truly send hugs and love to everyone trying for their first baby here. And I hope that unexplained secondary infertility is ok to post in this thread. 

I have had blood tests and sperm tests and have heard about great drugs here (that sounds wrong but I'll go with it!)... my question is other than a gp how do I get someone to offer diagnosis and prescribe drugs, without me walking into a clinic and saying 'ivf please'. Is there a clinic that actually does the non-ivf bits.. something like Zita West although I know it's ££££..... I just want to try getting a boost, or getting IUI before I go down route of other stuff... I basically need someone to suggest what I need or could need and prescribe it. 

What are your thoughts please? Sending love to everyone - and so wonderful to be in a forum with other women around my age who don't think I'm mad.


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## Mochashosh

Hi Razzy

If you are in London, ARGH in Great Portland Street (not to be confused with ARGC!) will offer you a free consultation.  They are a bit basic, but at least you can come armed with questions and talk about the options.  

Your GP may be able to do some of the bloods and so forth for you, and I would recommend this, since every private blood test is £££.  

Let us know how you get on.


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## Syd72

Welcome razzy, no issue at all with being in this group with secondary infertility, quite a few of the ladies have children already.  I basically went straight to IVF due to age and did it privately as I live abroad at the moment (plus I would have been too old for help on the NHS) so I really can't offer any advice at all I'm afraid but I think most fertility clinics will do other investigations and/or IUI before jumping to IVF?  

Jas can they do something to bring on AF?  I had planned on doing long protocol with my first ivf but the clinic decided I wasn't going to be in the UK long enough so moved me to short protocol.

Re the trigger, I was given it when I did an unmedicated IUI with Lister, I queried it at the time as I wanted the cycle to be completely unmedicated and she said it was to be absolutely sure I ovulated.  With hindsight I wish I hadn't done it as I think it caused me to ovulate slightly earlier than I should have done and as far as I'm aware, I still ovulate every month.  

Esj, hopefully you've heard back from Penny, I saw her a couple of times last week.  She actually never took any time off after losing her husband, just one day, he had told her she has to keep working to help her cope.  So sad, and she's so amazing.  I know absolutely nothing about letrozole unfortunately.

Highland, no shouting from me, I'm a terrible early tester, more on that later.  I think I've seen 20 sometimes given as the limit for ovulating, the number varies to be honest but I'm sure I've seen 20 somewhere?

Laquinn, any update?

Blondie I'm sorry, I didn't realise your boys had health problems, I can see why that makes trying again a hard decision.

Hi to everyone else and sorry to all those I've missed, this thread is quite busy at the moment which is nice to see.

Afm, pupo with 2 x AA blasts but I'm not feeling hopeful to be honest.  I think I already said further back that we had nothing to freeze, this is after 10 eggs from a 25 year old proven donor so I think there must be sperm issues we're not aware of.  I tested yesterday, ridiculously early, and bfn.  That coupled with absolutely no symptoms just makes me feel like it hasn't worked.  Trying to stay positive, doing a mediocre job of it.


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## Laquinn

razzy - Welcome. I'm just on my first medicated superovulation cycle which I'm doing through a clinic in Epsom who are treating me for immune issues. If you read back through this thread and the first half of it you'll see clinics and protocols which ladies have followed and how it worked out for them which might help you decide your own next steps.

Syd - Congrats on being PUPO! 2 x AA blasts sounds very encouraging. I suppose they say a fertile couple have a 20% chance of conceiving every month so is 2 out of 10 eggs fertilizing not about right? Forgive my ignorance - I am an IVF virgin... so far. 

As we all know there is absolutely no clue in the 2ww as to whether it's worked or not apart from POAS at the right time. Your body is going to do what it's going to do so may as well be kind to it and yourself by taking it easy. Saying that, I have just spent my past 2ww stressing out and googling every symptom under the sun! It's a bfn for me this cycle. I was gutted yesterday, doesn't seem to get any easier, but feeling better today. Getting back on the horse and got the meds booked in for next cycle!


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## Blondie71

Oh my god Pennys husband died I had no idea!! He was my boys embryologist, a talented man too 😢 oh I feel gutted reading this news 😢😢 poor penny and kids will be devastated as they are very tight knit 🙏 thanks for messages regarding boys, it is a challenge but have lots of support and good medical team behind us, they had brain hemorrhages at birth after prematurity etc so more difficult than the average but all worth it xoxo


----------



## Syd72

Thanks Laquinn.

Blondie, yes. He was diagnosed with stage four cancer around september and died in november. I saw Penny in december, she’s struggling and keeps telling all the ladies she sees that she needs to get good news from them to keep her going. So sad.


----------



## Blondie71

Oh my goodness so sad 😢 you know those workers at serum never take much time off as they work right through for people's cycles and come in even when the clinic is closed and it can't be good for the longterm 😢 so shocked to hear this 😣 RIP Thimmios you've made more dreams come true than you could ever have imagined ❤


----------



## Tonsos

Hi everyone
I’m new to this site and to ivf so any help appreciated. I’m 45 and going to give ivf a try. Ive been fortunate to meet a fantastic man in the last year and although we are both 45 we would like to give it a try with own eggs. I’m aware my chances of success are low for my age. FSH is 9.9 and AMH is 1.4 so not terribly bad for 45 but I will need help I expect with quality of egg. My boyfriend also had a vasectomy but has 2 other teenage children.  My questions are should he go ahead with his vasectomy reversal anyway while we go ahead anyway and try IVF. We were told the reversal could take 3 months to 1 year to have his sperm mobile. Also I have read about mini/mild IVF and think its for me. I have seen Create and London Women’s  Clinic and also Serum and Reprofit. Any advice on where is best choice. Also will they treat me at 45 

Thanks Sarah


----------



## Flyby

I was told that every month mattered at that age and even when I had a fibroid removed a few months before my successful IVF I was advised to collect eggs and freeze embryos over the months while waiting to heal. If it were me I’d go straight to mild/natural IVF rather than wait. Good luck, Serum got me my success! F x


----------



## Tonsos

Thanks flybe for the info... serum does look great on the site...if you have any other advise I would welcome it. Glad you had success.... I’m just trying to make up my mind re a UK clinic or Serum...


----------



## Syd72

Welcome Tonsos, I'm sorry but I can't really offer any advice as I don't know about vasectomy reversals or mini/mild IVF.  I have a vague memory of reading some not great reviews about the London Women's Clinic but have a search on the forum and see if you can find any feedback.  I'm currently with Serum, no baby yet but think the clinic are great.  I agree with Flyby, don't wait.  Good luck and keep us posted.

Blondie I know, it seems no matter when I email I always get a response.  I sent something to Penny this Sunday not expecting to hear back til today but she responded within half an hour, they work so hard.


----------



## razzyCup

Thanks very much for the support of a newbie and replies... will read through the first part of thread as suggested for protocols and clinics... and will also check the Portland St place out x


----------



## Laquinn

Tonsos - Welcome. Some people claim you can improve egg quality by using supplements like CoQ10 and DHEA like in the book It Starts With The Egg; my consultant says absolutely nothing can improve egg quality but I'm sure good nutrition and getting a good blood supply to your ovaries can't hurt. I too was considering mild IVF and was drawn to Create although I've heard people on here say they are chaotic to deal with. Having discovered I had immune issues after a late loss I would recommend immunes testing too if you can afford it.  

Flyby - So good to hear of your success! How many eggs do you need to produce to make embryo banking worthwhile - is it very expensive to do? Thanks x


----------



## Flyby

Laquinn, I banked four months in a row and ended up with ten blastocysts after never having had one before! Then it worked on my first transfer, four were put back due to my age and it worked first time! I cant really remember the exact prices as it was almost five years ago and I’d been paying various package prices almost constantly over a 1.5 year period! Now I think they do a package that is 4,000 euros for 2 cycles including the transfer second time round, so the first cycle you use clomid and freeze all, the second cycle you do a fresh cycle and then transfer the fresh and frozen embryos together. Not sure there are many people like me who want to go four months in a row...it would have been five but they closed for summer before I could get the last one in! I was on a crazy last ditch rampage before accepting it may not work with my eggs. I had been on a load of supplements also. I have a feeling it was the more gentle stimulation that worked for me in the end. F x


----------



## Laquinn

Flyby - Thanks for that - very inspiring! Did you use PGS? Did Serum advise you on supplements? I am tempted to give it a go before moving onto donor egg... L x


----------



## Flyby

No, didn’t do PGS, Serum don’t do that routinely, I think only for serious medical/genetic reasons. Supplements were all my own research, I’ve listed them somewhere earlier on this thread x


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## Syd72

BFN for me, feel really sad but also really worried that future rounds won't be any better.  I had a hysto in December and Penny said my uterus was "perfect", my lining was perfect for transfer, young well-proven donor and yet we only ended up with 2 blasts, nothing to freeze.  We'll go again as soon as we can, just waiting to hear back from Penny, but slightly feel that we may be flogging a dead horse.

Sorry for the miserable post.


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Syd, 

Sorry to hear your news. Sending you a huge 🤗 

Did you take any medications to support implantation? ie steroids. Could Penny give you any? This may help for future cycles. 

I know you’re sad now but you’ve been pregnant before and will again. Hopefully next time it will result in your baby. 

Take care x


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Good luck to everyone else 

X


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn – Sorry it was a BFN – gutted! I know how you feel same for me so onto the next round!  Will you do the same again? That thread is v good and shows a lot of success which is inspiring! I do think the letrozole is the least harmful way to stimulate more than one follicle in us old bags LOL! and I pretty much got the same result this time with the Gonal F as I did with the IVF stim cycle in August 2016! – 2/3 follicles and when I did my letrozole cycle in 1 of the rounds I had 3/4 follicles!?
On the trigger note I believe it is prescribed to guarantee ovulation and so that you can time it and not miss it but not sure how that worked as my 21.9 progesterone score was lower than a natural cycle so I won’t be doing that again – plus the symptoms etc are not worth it for me anyways!
My IVF cycle was short protocol – you still down regulate using the BCP and then use injectables but only for a few days until you are ready for EC which is less than in long protocol when you are stimulating for longer.
I have taken DHEA since last may increasing from 25 – 50 – 75mg but have stopped taking as of last week after my BFN – I feel I need to strip back to basics slowly…
I still take 900mg of CoQ10 as this is what I was recommended by CHR to keep the fire going in the mitochondria cells of eggs and just for general well-being.
If I was going to do another round of IVF I still think I would go for the Natural / Mini / Mild IVF option and possibly with Create or if I was free to travel with Serum as although Create sounds chaotic I think they have good stats as do Serum again for us old bags LOL!
Again if I was free to roam I would go for egg / embryo banking as well and possibly PGS but it’s not to be I’m afraid so we just keep on keeping on with the current options…
There is also IUI with Letrozole….?

ESJ
I would defo keep up with the Letrozole and trigger or not its up to you but maybe try IUI if possible? – see my previous comments..
I think Its better to have a scan just to know if the lining is there as well as how many follicles you have etc? I have a day 2 to see where my starting point is then one on day 9 as I usually OV day 10 – 14 at the latest? You can still use the POAS to see when you get peak reading but I am such a tester / scan junkie I can’t help myself!
Personally I would not try Clomid again – gave me a 5.7mm lining when I have a 8-10mm usually and hellish side effects along with a 35 day cycle after it so it’s a NO from me X…
PS I’m in the same dilemma about what to do for the next cycle!

jasB171 – If you have a follicle then you are still in with a chance on your own – I would wait for AF and if you want to follow us ladies then you could try a Letrozole cycle with monitoring scans / POAS / Trigger or IUI? 
I still recommend Dr Koita at IVF Matters for helping me with the decision of what to do next so maybe try her?

razzyCup – Welcome! Firstly you are not too old I started the thread when I was 45 and about to commence my 1st and only cycle of IVF – I am now 47 – 48 in sept and still trying with my OE! …
I again recommend Dr Koita at IVF Matters which is an online clinic and you have a telephone / skype or meeting with her I am sure she will help you… good luck and keep us posted!

Mochashosh – Welcome and thanks for you advice please feel free to share and support us all on this journey..! X
Syd – I am so sorry to hear about your BFN  There is no reason for that cycle not to work as you say…
Have you had all your immunes checked not sure if that is a possibility for you in HK or can you / DH travel here for that? Can DH have a DNA frag etc test?
You have had more success on your own than some of us here although I know it hasn’t resulted in your baby but maybe you should try again either mild stims / superovulation Letrozole / IUI with your OE? Although I understand if you are over that option … sending you hugs anyways Syd – its just poop isn’t it! … 
I am sure Penny will guide you in the right direction Syd xxx

Tonsos – Welcome! If you read through the posts you will find a lot of info to help you and yes there are clinics who treat women at 45 and above! You have a good FSH and AMH so I am sure you will have options?
Create and Serum seem to be the favoured choice for most of the ladies on here but as I have mentioned above I still rate Dr Koita at IVf matters for a first stop to check everything out on a natural basis before moving on to anything else – best to check the basics first which I didn’t do and I feel I wasted a lot of precious time… good luck and keep us posted x

Flyby – Hello! Thanks for sharing your story and giving us some inspiration I wish I had the option of following your plan! xx

AFM - AF is here I am on CD5 so will try again naturally this cycle no meds no scans .... freewheeling... - should OV day 10 - 13 will use either Ovusense or POAS or both because I am crazy and then pounce on DH when ready! LOL 
I now seem to have the second cold of this year having not been ill for years so I have no idea what the actual F!! is going on so not sure if my snotty nose will be enough to get DH in the mood?? LOL!!!!!
Was away at the weekend when AF started so no option for Letrozole as I didn't have it with me so lets see what this cycle brings! XX
Good Luck eveyone xx


----------



## Laquinn

Flyby - Thanks for that. Been having a wee read back through your posts - what a story! x

Syd - Sending big hugs. What about trying another clinic? I think it was artist_mum said she tried Serum then had success in Spain. From what I've read on here it seems it can take a few goes with DE. Is your OH going to get more tests? 

Sunflowerseeds - Thanks! How are you getting on?

highlandgirl - Yep - back on the Letrozole train! Hopefully I'll get a good response this time too. Gonna take it CD2-6 this time. I guess if all goes well I'll have a hot date with a trigger shot! 
Is your consultant okay with you not doing a trigger shot?
I am tempted by banking but I don't think we can afford to try that and do DE and DE has better odds. So I think we're gonna keep going with the superovulation for a while then start looking at DE. 
Sticking to my current protocol of supplements so pretty simple with a big dose of vit D. 
People I know who had babies at 45 and 48 it happened naturally and by accident...
DH is waiting on his SpermComet test results! 

Good luck for this cycle - hope your cold clears up soon. 

Hello and good luck to everyone else xx


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## highlandgirl

Laquinn - I took my Letrozole days 2-6 both times  
I am going to miss out the Letrozole this cycle and I am still to send the 21.9 prog result / trigger question back to both my clinic and Dr K to ask their opinions will let you know..
You have a good AMH and now your FSH is down would you try IVF at all with your OE? Im on 25ug of Vit D I am sure it is what has boosted my AMH 
I keep reading more and more that after 44 its natural that's seems to beat the odds! Sneaking in a wee Day 7 scan on Friday to see if I actually have anything happening cant help myself! EEK!
Glad you managed to get DH in for his test 
xx


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## Sunflowerseeds

Laquinn and Highlander - sorry for your BFN. I’m catching up on all the post. 

I read some where that doing super ovulation on different day can help, ie taking Letrozole on days 5-9 helps with egg quality as it works with the natural selection process. I’ve done the mild IVF with Create, Bemfola 150iu from day 5. Sadly no BFN but we had better quality embryos 

X


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## esj

Sending love *Syd* and do sorry it didnt work this cycle. Its such a cruel process this journey. Please don't be disheartened though, give yourself some time and support each other through this but as Sunflower says you have been pregnant before. Really hope you are lucky next time.
*Highland* I did have a scan last week actually- and as I suspected based on OPK tests nothing going on at all. Penny gave me a another prescription for Letrozole and trigger so will see what happens next cycle. I am expecting this to be a long one though.
Regards to all
XX


----------



## LuckyE

sorry for the BFNs guys


----------



## Laquinn

highlandgirl - I would like to try OE IVF if we could afford it but I think I'd need to do banking and then if that never worked I don't know how we'd finance a few tries at DE. Our consultant says there's no point in doing OE IVF at this age... But I might talk to Create and Serum anyway. I guess we could try DE anytime but our families were all geared up for our wee girl being around and are desperate for us to have a living child asap. Our parents are knocking on a bit now too...
It would be good to know what your consultant says about trigger.
I'm getting scanned CD9 so I can trigger this time. Jeez - it's expensive for that trigger shot in't it?
Good luck for your CD7 scan. 
DH is a bit nervous about getting his test results!

Sunflowerseeds - Thanks. That's interesting about taking Letrozole later. Would you recommend Create? 

esj - Lots of ladies who Letrozole on this thread! Good luck for your next cycle.

Lucky E - Thanks  

XX


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## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Laquinn, 

Like the team at Create. At times I have been very frustrated with them. However they seem willing to work with you. We’ve discussed a number of queries with them on different concepts and they’ve been engaging, i.e. immune testing, meds to support this and implantation, mild simulation later in the cycle, etc. They can seem chaotic at times, not sure if this is when their clients’ cycles don’t go to plan. Don’t think they have spare capacity to deal with that and routine at tasks as well. Admin is a lot better. Think it helps when they get to know you better as well so they know how they need to respond to me and my ‘demands’ or queries. 

I’ve not cycled with Serum but they were amazing with communications and really wished we had that service in the UK. Sadly OH still needs to get his sperm checked after chemo. He wasn’t too keen on his sperm being shipped overseas. Had a few tests with them though. Samples sent from UK and have been very supportive. 

Think both clinics do embryos banking. Previously was told not to do any PGS testing as it can damage eggs, especially not good for older ladies. As less impact from meds, assisted hatching the better. It be interesting to get others thoughts. 

X


----------



## Syd72

Thanks all.

Yes, he's had the sperm dna fragmentation test and it was fine.  I haven't had immune testing although Serum automatically put you on steriods and I had intralipids which I think is to do with immunes?

No, I'm not going to change clinics.  This was our first try with Serum and OH's sperm is frozen there so it would be hard to move anyway.  Any sample he produced now would, I'm sure, be of lower quality than the one they currently have as he's on anti depressants at the moment.

I definitely don't want to go back to OE, to my mind that would just add another level of stress.  If there is a hidden issue with the sperm younger eggs are more likely to be able to deal with it than my eggs.  Although I had two of my own eggs transferred at day 5 last time they were both slow, not full blasts whereas the donor eggs were AA expanding blasts.

Sunflower, could it be an option for his sperm to be tested in the UK and then cycle with Serum?

Laquinn I can't remember which clinic you're with but Serum do encourage ladies to try with own eggs if all tests and everything are good.

Highlandgirl, happy trying naturally   

Highland, hope your cold clears up quickly, that's miserable.

Good luck to the ladies scanning.

Penny needs me to have a down reg injection done locally in the next couple of days.  I'll then stop all progesterone etc, wait for a bleed which should happen quickly and go out to Greece again when my donor is ready.


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Syd, 

Thanks for advice on sperm, OH finished chemo in September and tested in December as we were considering go to Serum. He was advised he didn’t have any live sperm. We looking at retesting in March but they’ve advised it could take up to 2 years. 

Sounds like you’ve got a plan to focus on. Fingers crossed with the next steps of your journey. You mentioned that you was taking steroids, what was the dose? what day in your cycle did you start them? Could it help to change the protocol for these? 

Laquinn - have you tried Asda for meds? They do fertility meds at cost. 

X


----------



## Laquinn

Sunflowerseeds - Thanks for sharing your experience and insights. Much appreciated. 

The trigger shot is just a few pounds more in Boots than in Asda and the Letrozole is as cheap as chips there! 

Syd - Thanks for the heads up on Serum. I am tempted by the OE banking idea but the odds are so dismal. Are Serum quite up front with the actual likelihood of success?

Good luck for round 2! Is it a new donor? Is Penny tweaking the protocol or is it the same as last time?

AFM - *tmi alert!* Just waiting on full flow of AF. Last night I started cramping, spotting and bleeding lightly. It's quite dark and clotty at times - do I count this as CD1 or wait for full-on flow? Always panic now after my periods disappeared when I went thyrotoxic. Eating dates and dark chocolate to bring it on (that's my excuse anyway!).

Hope everyone else is doing well. Good luck everyone! Xx


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## JasB171

Hi all,

So sorry to hear about everyone’s bfns    
 
Laquinn –Best of luck with your superovulation this month! I have to confess that I don’t really know what that is – but I am sure it has been discussed earlier in this thread so I will take a look.  As for CD1, I was told that it is the first day that you wake up with full flow – but I think clinics have different opinions – still no full flow tonight?  

Sorry if this is a dim question, but what is the difference between treatment with Letrozole and clomid? Is one stronger than the other? Do they do different things?  The reason I ask is that I did a couple of clomid rounds last year and I still only got one lead follicle (the others didn’t seem to do anything).  Also – to get hold of Letrozole, do you need a prescription from a clinic or would a GP prescribe it? I am trying to work out what might be best to do if I give up on the IVF route.  It’s all so confusing!  

Syd – so sorry about it not working out with the DE this time round.  It sounds really strange if the sperm dna frag test came back fine, the donor is young and well-proven and your lining was perfect.  Wishing you lots of luck for your next cycle!!

Highlandgirl –I really hope that your natural cycle this time round does the trick! Hope your cold goes away in time or that your DH finds snotty noses sexy??! I have had a quick look at the IVF Matters website. How does it work – do you have to have all the FSH/AMH tests again? And how often do you have a meeting (or call) with Dr Koita?  Did you say you are also using a clinic in Scotland? (apologies if I am getting it all wrong- there are so many posts since I last checked and my sieve-like brain won't retain all the information)

As for me and the long protocol– my clinic says that the down regging shouldn’t have had any effect on my period arriving. Not sure what to think. They said that, even in an anovulatory cycle (my day 21 scan before I started down regging showed that I had not ovulated), the period should come in 8-10 days of starting down reg meds.  I can only assume that it is a sign of perimenopause and that I am now missing periods.  Hence me now wondering what to do!  My clinic has suggested that we wait until my next period and then see what the lay of the land is. They said they didn’t want to do anything to bring on the AF – they want to leave it to happen naturally, so now I am just waiting.  I’m on CD55 now!  They have agreed that I can do the short protocol (which for them means taking menopur for 8-10 days plus orgalutran from day 5 of the stims) if the scan results are good, as I am really struggling to work out the timing for the long protocol with work commitments – particularly given what happened this time.  But I am kind of expecting the scan results to only show a few follicles and for them to say “not this month”, which is what happened about 5 times last year…  I think I will see what happens in this next cycle and then maybe think about alternatives - I still have a stack of menopur in the refigerator, so may as well try to use it!

Best of luck to everyone! x


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Jas, 

Hope your AF arrives soon. When your cycles were cancelled last year was it just for the number of follicles or blood results as well? What days are you having the scans? or are they starting treatment and then cancelling because follicles are not growing? Sorry for all the questions. Been reading that start slightly later in the cycle can help as your body selects the eggs to grow and then meds encourages the rest.

X


----------



## Syd72

Sunflower, fingers crossed for a better result in March.  It's a really low dose of steriods, 5mg per day.  It's something Serum do for everyone, I believe it used to be a higher dose but she's changed it based on recent research.

Laquinn, yes, I think they're quite upfront about the chances.  They don't give figures or percentages but they'll tell you what they think is realistic for you.  I know a couple of ladies around my age or slightly older who have cycled with Serum recently and Serum have said they think they have a reasonable chance with OE - certainly they don't push anyone towards DE.  I've seen a lot of comments on the Serum ** page from people who say they've gotten better results with Serum (ie more embryos getting to day 5) than with their previous clinics, doesn't always mean they get a BFP of course.  I think it will be a new donor as I don't think they'll want the last one to cycle again so soon, it wouldn't be good for her, even given the light stimming that Serum use for donors.  I always really struggle with what constitutes "full flow'" - I usually count it as when I have to switch from a panty liner to a full pad and it does have to be full flow to be day 1 although I don't think it has to be heavy as such.  

Thanks Jas, hope AF starts soon for you.


----------



## JasB171

Hi Sunflower,

I had scans on day 1 or 2 and my clinic decided not to proceed at all with stims as they wanted to wait until I had more follicles.  I think it was because the very first time I had an AFC scan, I had 16 follicles but it then went down to 9 and then 6 I think.  When we finally did proceed with treatment in July last year, I had 12 (but I only ended up with 3 eggs as all the follicles on one ovary luteinised or something and 3 on the other one didn't develop).  They wanted me to wait 2 months before I tried again, but then I had a natural CP so had to miss October. I had a scan in November and had 12 again but they decided it would be better for me to do the long protocol, which I started in January and then had to cancel as my AF didn't arrive in time and I had to be here in the UK this week due to work commitments.  My clinic only does scans and not blood tests - which I am kind of glad about as I am sick of having so many tests.  

Quick question for you ladies - I have never had immunes testing. Is this usually recommended if there are problems staying pregnant? I have only had 2 miscarriages (well - one was a CP), so not sure whether it would be worth doing the immunes?  And what does it entail? Sorry if all the information is somewhere in the thread!

x


----------



## Laquinn

JasB - Superovulation is where they stimulate your ovaries to produce a stronger ovulation and maybe more than one egg. Bit more of a flow today. DH says I'm always like this so hopefully full AF will arrive soon. I certainly feel crazy premenstrual enough! Always feel better when AF arrives properly...

Letrozole is supposed to be safer I think and more effective for some. Has to be prescribed and supervised. If you have a nice GP they might prescribe but usually you have to see a fertility specialist.

So sorry to hear about your losses, frustrating cycles and delayed AF. Hope your future steps present themselves to you soon. 

I got my immunes testing done at the miscarriage clinic in Epsom and would recommend. 

Syd - Thanks for the info - that's very helpful. I might try and persuade OH to have a chat with Serum. Just feel like I should be doing more! 

Hope the new donor works out well. I think this is probably CD1...

x


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi 

Syd - it's interesting to see how each clinic decides on the dose of steroids. For example Prof Q gives 20mg for killer cells if test positive. Think Mr S does a range depending on test results. Others I've seen from 5mg such as yours to 25/30 mg. Don't think NHS self funded clinics give any. They also starting them at different stages of the cycle. Not sure if this would make a difference, everyone is unique so who knows.  You look like you've covered all the bases with your treatment. It may be compatiblility of the donor eggs with your OH's sperm which will change next time. This is such a challenging process. You know you can get pregnant, I'm sure it's just a matter of time for you to have your baby. Good luck for March. 

Jas - I feel your pain on the number of tests. A few cycles ago I suffered an assistant who had problems locating my vein, it was so painful how slow and clumsy she was. Had to ask for someone else in the end. It's worth getting the results though as they can indicate other issues that need addressing. A few months ago I had a funny cycle, my hormones were out at the start of a cycle then flipped on CD3/4 think it was a mixture of grieving and/or mixture of supplements I was taking that may have impacted on my hormones. It could help in understanding what's happening and possibly change supplements.  Also when I've cycled my CD3/4 often shows AFC with less than 6mm. I've used high and low doses, it doesn't matter on mature eggs and end up with 7/8 mature eggs. It may also have the same reaction once you start meds. 

Laquinn - Serum do a free Skype call and are very happy to answer queries. It may be worth having an initial call with them. Hope your AF settles down. Are you taking Letrozole this cycle or just ttc naturally? 

Highlander - are you ttc with meds or naturally? 

Good luck to everyone on their ttc. 

Take care X


----------



## Laquinn

Sunflowerseeds - I filled in a Serum questionnaire and they got back straight away - I can see why everyone is so impressed with them! But reading through their response I have the same odds with superovulation as with banking so not much point in changing course for me at the moment. AF arrived properly and with a vengeance!  I'm going to see a gynecologist and have a hysto done locally just to make sure everything's okay. CD2 so started the Letrozole today.

How are you getting on?

Hope everyone else is okay? Xx


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi Laquinn, 

I don't blame you for wanting to stay with super ovulation, that was my plan until OH got sick last year. IVF can be so taxing but it's a means to an end. My OH often thinks many clinics' stats are misleading/dishonest. That's one of the things I like about Serum is their honesty as well as their communications and willingness to try different approaches to help us get our babies. That's one of the reasons my OH needs convincing that one clinic is any better than another. 

Fingers crossed for you this round with letrozole.

Good luck to all.

Take care X


----------



## JasB171

Laquinn – thanks for the info on the superovulation, the Letrozole and the immunes testing. I had never heard of letrozole until I came on this thread.  Are you with a fertility specialist recommended by your GP or did you sign up directly with a clinic (or does the miscarriage clinic advise also on superovulation)?    I’m glad AF finally arrived properly! And best of luck with the letrozole cycle!

Sunflowerseeds – sorry to hear about the inept assistant trying to find your vein – not fun!  I suppose knowing hormone levels might be useful, but my clinic doesn’t  seem to do them unless you are following the long protocol route.  Good luck with the March testing!

x


----------



## Laquinn

Sunflowerseeds - It does seem like banking has worked for some people but I just can't afford to do it for such small odds. And even if I could, like you say, IVF is taxing. So sorry you're having to deal with your OH health issues on top of everything else - that must be really hard. Really hope this year is kind to us all and we get some success on this thread. 

JasB - Thanks! The miscarriage clinic advise on superovulation too. 

AFM - Superovulation cycle #2 Still waiting on the result of OH SpermComet test and thinking about having a hysterscopy. 

Hope everyone else is doing well. 

X


----------



## Syd72

Laquinn, I was also going to say definitely worth a skype chat with Serum but then saw your response regarding success levels.  The only thing I would say is everything I've read on these boards says that a hysto in Greece (whether through Serum or one of the others) is so much more thorough than a hysto in the UK.  So many people have been told all is fine in the UK then gone on to have another hysto in Greece which has found all sorts of issues.  I don't know why it's like that but I've seen it over and over again.

Thanks Sunflower, Serum do increase the steroids to 20mg if you get a bfp.  I've actually just had my thyroid antibodies tested and that's come back positive, I'm just not sure how high my levels are compared to other women that test positive.  I'm already on thyroxine for underactive thyroid so don't think there's anything else I can do at this stage.  I will let Penny know just in case it changes my dose.


----------



## Laquinn

Syd - I've seen a lot of enthusiastic posts about the hysterscopys in Greece too but also seen people posting about not being anesthetized properly and waking up during the procedure; someone whilst getting a scratch done after the hysterscopy (that's gotta hurt!). To be fair it didn't put that poster off, but hearing about that terrifies me a bit. I've ran it past my consultant and will see what he thinks. I've seen some recent DE success at Serum and that would be our next step. How did you find Serum for DE? I am very peely wally (pale!) being Scottish; think they have access to very fair donors?


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi 

Thanks Laquinn luckily we're through the worse and OH is in remission. We were fortunate treatment was successful and that he could store sperm prior to treatment. We've got 17 straws left. All good enough for various treatments as well as IVF.  I seem to remember Serum having donors from various countries if not they will source for you which could take a few months. I had a few tests with Serum (samples sent from UK) and discovered I had hidden c. Didn't realise how much this could effect fertility. I had various tests done here and they hadn't picked up on anything. Thought I had PID. Antibiotics cleared it up for me and OH. My first cycle was with a Greek clinic and they found my OH had an infection that was effecting his sperm. Greek clinics do a lot of diagnosis tests as part of treatment, often at no extra costs. You seem to have got tests sorted. Sadly not all UK clinics are inconsistent and can be very poor with diagnosis. It seems easier yo say 'unexplained'. 

Hopefully this will be all our year for babies. 

Syd - that's good to know about Serum increasing steroids once BFP. Could starting steroids earlier in the FET cycle help with implantation? Have you read the Alan Beers book, could anything in their steer you towards the right treatment for your thyroid.

All - hope you're all well

X


----------



## Syd72

Yeah, that was me that woke up...  Not whilst having the scratch done, that must have been someone else, but I woke up and obviously still had the paralytic in me as I couldn't move, I still had the tube down my throat and they were just removing the catheter.  At the time it actually didn't worry me, it's bothered me more thinking about it since.  If I was going back to Greece for another hysto (no plans to) I would tell them what happened and specifically ask to speak to the anaesthetist to make sure she kept me topped up!  Nothing like that happened the first time.  I know they have Polish donors, as well as donors from other countries, so being very pale wouldn't be an issue.

Sunflower I haven't read that one although I've seen it mentioned a few times, will have to give it a try.


----------



## Laquinn

Sunflowerseeds - Good to hear you're through the worst and have a good store. If we go down DE route we'd go to Prague so might get a Hysterscopy there to check out the clinic and have a consultation. I'll check out those tests at Serum that you can do through the post. Just waiting to hear back from my consultant to see if he thinks I should have a Hysterscopy; I had a HyCosy recently and that was clear and the scans I'm getting for superovulation look fine too. It's probably just the age of my eggs but I guess it's best to get everything checked. More tests to cross off the list of never-ending tests!

Syd - I will definitely be talking to any anesthetist involved with procedures I'm having done in the future after reading about your experience! Polish could work...

X


----------



## Syd72

Laquinn, i’ve just seen your post on the other thread about your oh’s sperm dna fragmentation results. Really sorry, I didn’t want to comment on that thread. Do you have the actual numbers?


----------



## Laquinn

Syd - Thanks. I don't want to post them on here but they were very poor. I am raging but because they said to abstain for 2-5 days in advance of testing so he abstained for 5 days and since then I've read how that would give a really poor result; less time between ejaculations improves sperm quality and more time causes more DNA fragmentation, especially in men over 44. It just feels like part of the fertility industry scam - the test cost £700.


----------



## Syd72

No that’s fair enough. I’ve been reading a lot about dna fragmentation  recently and one protocol seems to involve ejaculating every other day for 10 days plus antibiotics. I’ve seen other things too but certainly abstinence doesn’t help. There seems to be quite a bit that can be done to improve fragmentation.

That is a lot of money, I’m not surprised you’re raging.


----------



## Laquinn

I suppose it's good because it makes us consider something we'd overlooked but he did get me pregnant twice not too long ago and our daughter was genetically perfect. Going to see the urologist and probably do some improvement protocol but we'll definitely get it done again if we go for IVF.  

How are you getting on?


----------



## hkd

Hello.  I am new here, but I came cross one post and would like to give my experience.

Tonsos - I'm 42 now. I went to the initial consultation at LWC last Sept (I was 41 then). My AMH was 2 and the doctor didn't recommend IVF treatment but she immediately suggested DE.  I wanted to try with OE IVF so I went to Create.  I tried 2 cycles with Modified IVF, but my eggs (one egg each time) weren't good enough to fertilize. I have one more cycle left but DH and I made up our mind to go for DE IVF.  Now we need to decide on where.  I don't know if my information would help, but good luck on your journey!


----------



## JasB171

Sorry to hear about the fragmentation results Laquinn.  That's something I haven't actually considered - getting DH tested for that. We did the basic tests and they came back ok, and given my age and crappy stats, I assume it is me anyway.  I hope you get on ok at the urologist and it sounds like it might be worth repeating the test if you go for IVF- this time not abstaining for long.  I can imagine you were furious with those instructions!

Welcome hkd - and thanks for sharing your experiences.

AFM - still no sign of AF and I'm now at CD 69... I have no idea what is going on.  I think I might post a general question on the over 40s and IVF groups to see if anyone has experienced anything similar.

Hope everyone is doing ok!x


----------



## Laquinn

hkd - Welcome and thanks for sharing your experience.

JasB - Thanks. Getting used to the idea now - at least we know it's probably an issue now and makes me wonder if there might be a better chance with my own eggs under the right circumstances.

Have you had your thyroid tested recently? My AF went missing for ages when I went thyrotoxic... x


----------



## JasB171

Laquinn - indeed, I’m sure that must be the case. And if there are measures that can be taken to improve it, then it is definitely worth exploring.

Unfortunately, I don’t think it’s linked to my thyroid. I have hypothyroidism and have been on levothyroxine for a while and only had my TSH levels tested about 3 weeks ago and they were fine.  I had hoped it might have been that, but seems not. No idea what’s going on! 😞 
X


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi 

Laquinn - Sorry to hear about your OH results. We've been advice by a few clinics on improving OH's sperm, it's mainly 400iu of vitamin e and 1000mg for vitamin c (Rosehips). This is along with ejaculating (ideally) 2 or 3 days. On my first IVF cycle the clinic picked up that OH got an infection that was effecting his sperm. The above, along with some antibiotics helped to fertilise 8 eggs. You could also add zinc as this would help with quality as well. He did this for about 6 weeks. Massively helped.

Jas - hope you get your AF soon. Have your tried anything like a castor oil pack or fertility massage? This may get able to get things going.

Good luck to all.

Take care X


----------



## JasB171

Hi Sunflowerseeds,

I haven't tried castor oil, but I have had acupuncture as well as reflexology several times, but no joy.  I have just been in touch with my clinic and asked if I can now take something to trigger a period, as this is getting a bit ridiculous.  They have suggested I take provera or primolut for 5 days and the period should come after 7-12 days.  Given that they are overseas, they have suggested I go to my GP to get a prescription - annoyingly the first appointment there is Saturday!  

Hope everyone is doing ok!


----------



## Laquinn

Sunflowerseeds - Thanks for the advice. If it's bfn this cycle we're going to do the infections testing through Serum and DH is going to see the urologist. 

JasB - When my AF was a bit slow to come on recently I induced it by drinking corriander tea (yuck!) and eating dates. Parsley is supposed to be good too. Fertility yoga and fertility massage helped too and drinking lots of water. X


----------



## highlandgirl

Hello Ladies,

I am so sorry for the lack of chat been v busy as per usual but just popped on to say was a BFN last cycle. This cycle got a peak on the good old Clearblue Digital Monitor and BD and I am 11dpo today - took a test as you know I am a test junkie and I cant believe I am about to write the following - B F P...... W T F!!! It was a light line on a FRER and was at 10am so not FMU I am in deep shock!
I understand this is way too early and there are a lot of ways this can go but I have never ever had a second line I just cant believe it!


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi 

Highlander - congratulations. That's wonderful news. I'm really pleased for you. 

Jas - could your overseas clinic give you a prescription. Think Fertility2U which is an online pharmacy may accept an electronic prescription if the clinic is known to them. If may help to spend up the process. 

Laquinn - fingers crossed for your BFP this cycle so you wont have a need to Serum. 

Hope everyone else is well X


----------



## Syd72

Awesome news Highland - congratulations!  Praying it's a sticky one.


----------



## JasB171

Wow highlandgirl! That's great news. I'm so happy for you - and keeping everything crossed for you.

Sunflowerseeds - I have just managed to get an appointment with my GP for tomorrow (must have been a cancellation) but thanks for the recommendation - it might come in handy.

Laquinn - coriander tea? Did you make that yourself with fresh coriander? I do love coriander, but not sure I would like it in tea form!

x


----------



## Laquinn

highlandgirl - Amazing news!!!   Was this a completely natural cycle for you?

Sunflowerseeds - Thank you. I would definitely rather bfp!

JasB - I made the tea from corriander seeds. Not the most pleasant but I think it worked.

x


----------



## JasB171

Laquinn - so THAT's a use for the coriander seeds that have been sitting in my spice rack for years... !

So, my period finally arrived! And that was after getting a prescription from my GP yesterday for Provera, driving through the snow to get to 4 different pharmacies only for none of them to have them in stock, getting them ordered in, picking them up last night, taking the first tablet - and then an hour and a half later, having my period start (presumably as it was going to do anyway) and thus stopping the tablets!  What a waste of time and energy!  I have now booked a scan for Monday - I am expecting there to be not much there and for the clinic to say "Not this month" again, but let's see...

Hope everyone has some fun things for the weekend planned - skiing maybe?!
x


----------



## Laquinn

JasB - Phew! Bet that's a relief... Fingers crossed for your scan on Monday.

Planning on venturing out tomorrow for lunch and a film - was gonna go out today but ended up staying closer to home. Testing on Sunday  
x


----------



## highlandgirl

Again sorry for the silence ladies just read back from my last post and hope I haven't missed anyone or anything out! 

Laquinn
Firstly I hope by the time you read this you have a BFP!    
I never did check about the trigger shot you know – did you check?
I really hope this cycle worked for you and you don’t need the hysto x
Sorry to hear about the SpermComet test hopefully the urologist can sort out a protocol to improve the swimmers but hopefully you wont need it? DH takes Holland & Barrett Vit C 500mg with Rosehip and Vit E 400mg combined pill x 2 daily – might help as per sunflowerseeds post?
He also takes conception for men and Vit D 25iu.
Peely Wally – I haven’t heard that for years! LOL x

Sunflowerseeds 

I hope you are well? So glad to hear you have the straws left so at least you have options…
Whats your next steps sunflowerseeds? X

ESJ
Sorry to hear about your last scan – hopefully the Letrozole will help have you started it yet? x

LuckyE – How are you doing? X

Syd – I hope you are planning a trip back to Serum soon for transfer and praying for you that you get a BFP this Syd x

JasB171
Dr Koita is great you can call / email her anytime and she will respond back – they offer an initial consultation either in person / skype / telephone and they then recommend any test and discuss you plan with you and then take it from there. They can do all the blood tests on their website and they send you a pack you just need to get someone to draw the blood for you and send it in, I am lucky as I have a great contact at the hospital here.
I went to Dr K for a second opinion ( I had my IVF at a clinic in Glasgow 3.5 hours away )as there are no clinics where we live.
I am still in touch with my IVF consultant so I email them both at the moment for advice etc.
I got my Letrozole and Trigger shots from my IVF clinic and would never take clomid again gave me lots of side effects!
Praying you get some good news from your scan on Monday! X

AFM - I went to hospital for bloods on Wednesday and again Friday - reading was low on Wednesday and went down by Friday so just waiting on AF to arrive - now on CD 30 any idea how long it takes to come after what I think is a "chemical "?
I just cant believe I got a positive test I am so grateful even for that   - I was in deep shock - it was a totally natural cycle and I had stopped taking my DHEA at the start of Feb and had taken my focus off everything and was actually back trying to loose weight and looking into getting my breast reduction which I was meant to get 5 years ago - another story...
Anyway we still DTD when I got a peak on both CBDM and the CB stick and before and after then so I guess it was the only difference - more sex lol! but as you have all been saying you need fresh swimmers to get in there and hopefully meet the golden egg!
Will get back in the game once AF arrives and keep trying naturally as that seemed to work more than IVF Clomid or Letrozole for me even though the end result was not as we hoped its the closest I have ever been having never even had 2 lines before xx


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - So sorry to hear about your CP   But as you say - encouraging to see those 2 lines.     
Thanks for the protocol advice. Another bfn for me I'm afraid   Consultant has upped letrozole to 10mg for next month   and I have something to thicken my lining. So off to see the urologist. Going to do the Serum infections testing and thinking about a hysterscopy. I might get an OvuSense monitor now - you've inspired me! xx


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn - Sorry to read the BFN news - its bloody crap isn't it!  Just need to stay strong and keep going one foot in front of the other   Will the increased Letrozole help with more follicles hopefully? I was taking Cyclogest pessaries straight after OV as Dr K says it helps but god they are bloody messy! Fingers crossed for the urologist and the infections testing - what do they check you for? Where will you go for the Hysto?I never got to use my ovusense monitor not sure if I prefer to just poas now as that's how it worked to get the 2 lines   xx
Hows the white stuff? There wasn't even a flake here cant believe it - everyone is always looking up here thinking we get it all the time but this time we missed it! I called my friends in Glasgow and some of them didn't even own a pair of wellies FFS! Up here we live in wellies fleeces and general outdoor wear very attractive NOT! lol x


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - Dosen't get any easier   Just need to keep on keeping on    Yeah, hoping for more follies with the increased dose. Urologist will hopefully help improve our male factor issues and infections testing and antibiotics treatment is supposed to help improve that too and increase fertility. They test for Hidden C etc. Thinking of going to Reprofit for the Hysto as that's where we plan to go for IVF if the superovulation doesn't work. Urologist might say we have to go straight to IVF. I'm thinking about trying a tandem cycle to see how my eggs perform under IVF conditions. 
That's good to know about the OvuSense - saves me 200 quid! 
Getting a bit bored of the white stuff now - it's gone yon yucky brown slushy way with a bit of lethal ice thrown in for good measure - adequate footwear is essential!   xx


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn - Here's hoping this cycle with increased dose gets you a golden one   I just don't think I get much better results when I look back from taking meds especially the Gonal F round? I can OV on my own and get a good result from the progesterone tests and when I took zero it worked albeit only for a short period of time but I still have 1 round of letrozole and a trigger shot left so you never know when I start getting patchy AF etc it will be a different story!  Glad you have found a clinic you feel can help with the testing etc and although I dont know anything about overseas clinics I am sure you will be looked after well for the Hysto and if you choose to cycle there   Remind me what is a tandem cycle again? xx


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - Thanks   Hope you get your golden egg this cycle too   A tandem cycle is where you cycle with your own eggs and donor eggs. xx


----------



## Syd72

Highland, I'm gutted for you.  It's great that you're so positive and certainly amazing news that you got those 2 lines, I just so wish it had worked out for you.  They say you are more fertile after a miscarriage/CP - I've never managed to find out if that's really true, I think it's just anecdotal rather than based in fact, but I fell pregnant the first month of trying after my first miscarriage.  I'm the same as you in the sense that I seem to ovulate every month and also get good results from all progesterone tests.

Laquinn, I've heard good things about Reprofit although hopefully you won't have to go!

Jas, glad AF finally showed up!  Good luck with the scan today.

Hi to everyone else.


----------



## Laquinn

Syd - Thanks - here's hoping!   Good luck for your transfer


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn
I see! That’s an interesting option? Will you do that at Reprofit? Can I ask why you chose them as a potential clinic? x

Syd
Thank you for your kind words x Here’s hoping I get a BFP next cycle and the wee button sticks! 
When is your transfer Syd? Good Luck sending you positive vibes Syd xx  

That's me back in the game already - AF here and TMI alert she's in full flow with plenty of clots with it - EUGH! sorry!


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - Turns out Reprofit don't do tandem cycles so I might try an OE cycle just to see how it goes if DH sperm is up to it. I think we're probably gonna have to go down the DE route to try and remedy our male factor - that's why I chose Reprofit because I think they'll have more appropriate donors in the Czech Republic and it seems to offer a good value service.

Get the hot water bottle booked in and the netflicks on!   Good luck for your next cycle   Are you gonna tan that Letrozole or go au naturale?!

I conceived our daughter straight after a miscarriage x


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn - I see! Well I am sure there are options for you as you seem to have done your research!  Will you try another round or 2 of Letrozole etc or are you thinking of going for the OE or DE IVF soon?
Im not sure whether to just go au naturale and just hope for another strong OV as that was what seemed to do the trick I think plus the various sessions of DTD were right on time so I guess it was a stronger egg than any of the others who knows?? BUT! what if I don't get the OV PEAK and I feel I might have wasted a cycle... there in lies the dilemma! And my scan lady is on holiday so I cant even check what may be happening so Im thinking au naturale for now... just ate half of DH easter egg that my mother randomly bought him you cant beat an easter egg chocolate can you? xx
Here's hoping that the same happens for me and I get a sticky button this time as both you and Syd seem to have had the same result after your mc    xx


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - Depends on what the urologist says. DH wants to repeat the dna frag test without abstaining for six days (!)   I guess if the male factor's really bad then there's no point in doing superovulation cycles anymore and probably best chance will be DE IVF. But he did get me pregnant twice before... But I suppose the losses could have been related to the male factor. Perhaps with improvement protocol there might be a chance for superovulation or OE IVF. Stats for OE IVF at this age are dismal but... Seems the chances are better au naturale... 

Chocolate a is a must for AF!   I definitely think you're more fertile after a loss - hopefully this is the cycle for you!     xx


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn - Get DH on the VIT C & E and the Vit D! I would repeat the DNA test and you are right he got you pg twice and your numbers are good so I still think you are in with a chance either with superOV or OE IVF - not sure why DE IVF will be any better if the swimmers arent great though? is that because you think younger egg for DH sperm? If you can get a good number of eggs with stims and then PGS them and then go for ICSI that would be your best shot OE IVF otherwise DE IVF with DH swimmers? Either way you will know after the urologist appt - when are you going there? xx
Just going to repeat the whole of last cycle and pray


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - Young egg is supposed to be better to correct dna frag. Going to see the urologist in a couple of week's time. Trying to persuade DH to cut back on the coffees and empire biscuits - poor thing   xx


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn - I thought that was what you were meaning I see! maybe the urologist can give you more info on how to improve the swimmers for either option?   
I know what you mean DH loves a gin so its been an uphill struggle to get him to cool it! A recent trip to the docs after getting nine million blood tests put paid to that though as the doc socked it to him so he's cut right back - think that may have helped wee button too! 
You cant stop everything though can you... she says reaching for the chocolate egg xx


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - Hopefully the urologist can help. DH started on the extra Vit C, Vit E and a supplement which has Co-Q10 and stuff in it. I'm a bit worried because my FIL had prostate cancer recently and hope it's nothing to do with that. Feeling premenstrual today and AF isn't due 'til Saturday!   And when she arrives I'll definitely be breaking out the chocolate!  

I don't think I'll be able to get scanned 'til CD11 this cycle - I triggered CD12 last time; consultant has advised to trigger CD10 but I didn't get the script 'til CD12. Is it better to trigger earlier?

Snowing here this morning  

xx


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn - Im sure the vits and the CoQ10 will make a difference! DH had a blood panel which included the marker for prostate cancer recently I will try and work out which one it was? He came back normal with all his tests thank god!
I didn't even get a chance to go Pre nuts AF as it came on quickly - had to get up during the night not good but hopefully the clear out will make me more fertile as you and Syd have said 
I cant get a scan till CD8 but that will be ok for me just like to know whats going on even when no meds are involved - Im sure CD11 or even CD12 will be good for you and you will really see where you are at.
I still cant work out the trigger chat - My consultant stated I need to get the follicles up to at least 17mm or bigger if possible before you trigger but you also don't want to OV yourself which is why I always go scan crazy on Letrozole etc! My protocol was scan day 2 and day 9 but I think you need to scan later ( 10/11/12 time ) if the follicles are not there yet you need to see the 17mm minimum before you trigger as they need to be that size fro the egg to be mature - that's my tuppence worth anyway! xx
Still not a flake here ... eek!


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - Lucky you with no male factor    Fingers crossed we get a protocol that makes a difference   Having a long luteal phase sucks when it comes to PMS!   I have to collect some blood to send to Serum.   I think you will be more fertile this month   I read that triggering sooner is better for older ladies. xx


----------



## JasB171

Highlandgirl - so sorry to hear that it didn't work out for you this time, but as you say, getting the two lines is huge in itself - and hopefully next month you will get two lines again but this time it will stick!   Clearly, more sex is the way to go -  I wish my DH would agree on that (I think he's relieved when we have to abstain for a while!!) Did you say you DTD the day before, the day of and the day after OV?  I hope you enjoyed that Easter egg - I am still on the chocolate I got for Christmas and Valentine's Day (I got a lot), but it won't last much longer.  Glad that Easter is on its way...

And thanks for all that info on Dr Koita - that's really helpful.  I will see what happens this time and then go from there (more below).

Laquinn - really sorry to hear that it was a BFN for you as well    I hope that the increased Letrozole has the required effect! And I hope you get some really good advice from the urologist when you see him/her - it definitely sounds like your DH should repeat the test without abstaining that long in any event.

Syd - thank you! When do you have your transfer?  Keeping everything crossed for you!

AFM, I had my scan yesterday - 15 follicles! Quite pleased with that as its the most I've had since this time last year, although one was quite big and there were quite a few tiddly ones, so I'm sure I will lose them along the way.  Also, in the last (and only) IVF I did, all of the follies on one ovary keeled over and died, so I am expecting the same to happen this time.  Fingers crossed it won't, but I think it is quite likely. But if I end up with enough to proceed, that will do me. I have my next scan on Friday, so fingers crossed there will still be some hanging around and they will have grown a bit. We have kind of decided that this is our last round - and I'm not sure we will try anything else after it other than natural.  I have been having a lot of wobbles over the past couple of weeks - I think I am just so fed up of it all, never being able to plan anything, life on hold, it all interfering with my job etc - I'm sure you know what I mean. And I hate all the prodding and poking.  Anyway, we'll see what happens this time. The odds are against me, so I'm not holding my breath, but it will at least be one more go at it before we throw in the towel!

x


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi

Highlander - I'm so sorry to hear of your CP. At times life can feel so cruel but I'm glad you got the opportunity to feel the joy of your BFP. I'm also pleased to hear your positivity. Hope this cycle is fertile for you.

Laquinn - sorry about your BFN. I tried naturally for a while last year and suspected an issue with OH sperm. Wish I'd been as proactive as you to resolve. By the time I'd persuade OH to reduce his drinking and increase his supplements we found out he wasn't well. It was good we had the opportunity to freeze some of his sperm. His first deposit after abstaining for 5-7 days was ok but not brilliant, his 2nd after 2/3 days was really good and his last one after nearly 2 days was again ok. Think it takes at least 24 hours to replenish his stock. Everyone is different but think for OH 2/3 days is best. Think we conceived naturally with this approach.  Think I've read (NY clinic) that earlier ovulation is best for older women as cells start to damage eggs in later ovulation. Hope the increase dose works for this cycle.

Jas - pleased to hear your follicles has increased this cycle. What day are you starting your meds? Heard starting day 4/5 in a cycle can help with egg quality. I've also hear good results with other proctocols. It's whatever works best for you. Fingers crossed this cycle continues to go well for you. 

Syd - hope it goes well with your transfer. When is it? 

All - wishing you all the best X


----------



## Laquinn

JasB - Thanks  Quite excited about taking a bigger dose of Letrozole - appeals to the gambler in me!  DH definitely repeating the test so it will be interesting to see the results this time. 

Congrats on your 15 follies!  What was your protocol? Fingers crossed for your scan.  Know how you feel about getting a bit tired of the process and I've not even tried IVF yet! I love this woman's story of natural conception after lots of IVF: https://thegoodshufu.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/how-i-got-pregnant-naturally-at-45/

Sunflowerseeds - Thanks for the info  Some studies say ejaculation every day for a week and some say ejaculation twice within an hour improves dna fragmentation!  Thinking about when we conceived our daughter we had a lot of intercourse for a week sometimes twice a day...

Hello to everyone else X


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn
Im sure there will be male factor with DH but as we have no way of getting DNA Fragmentation tested here we just need to pray its ok. His SA for IVF was good given he was 51 at the time now 53!
What are you having tested at serum? Sorry Im so nosey! 
I agree with you and Sunflowerseeds that older ladies are better to try with slightly less mature eggs – I had a telephone consultation with Dr Gleicher from CHR in NY and he believes they should be fertilised at 13-15mm when he perfoms IVF so
Heres hoping your 10mg works better for you  I love a gambler – I am so not risk adverse its scary! Lol
I don’t know enough about the whole ejaculating to improve the DNA Fragmentation but will try to get DH in tow with it more this cycle!
Im well impressed you had time and energy to DTD twice a day at this point in life go you! Lol xx

Sunflowerseeds
Thanks Sunflowerseeds – some may say I am denial and walk around thinking everything is great but I am a realist and understand the odds however dwelling on the negative never gets anyone closer to any goal so I prefer to take the forward thinking mindful option 


JasB171
I hear you on the sex chat it is a stresser – we have to be in bed by 9.30pm as we are up at 4.30am everyday except a Sunday up at 7.30am WOW -  and DH is usually a morning man but has taken to waking me up during the night when I give him nod that its baby making time and then we cant get back to sleep after it lol lol - #seriouslyknackered.com
We only DTD 3 times in one week of my fertile week but as I use the Clearblue kits I can see when the LH rise is and time the DTD around it xx
I cant stop eating and I lost 2.5 stone before xmas and I have put on ½ a stone – EEK!
That is seriously impressive 15 follicles well done you! Fingers crossed you have a few for EC Im sure you will!
I hear you on the life on hold IVF is a stresser but you really shouldn’t stress as they say that is not good but what can you do but stress all the meds / appts / scans / waiting etc etc but it will all be worth it in the end so stay positive JasB171 and be grateful you have 15 to start with – good luck for tomorrows scan! xx


Syd – Whats going down – are you having a transfer soon? xx


----------



## highlandgirl

I keep forgetting to mention my friend sent me an article showing that Liz Earle had a surprise natural pregnancy at 47 - thought she was going through the menopause.... xx


----------



## Syd72

Hi ladies.  Jas, that's a great number of follicles!

I'm so jealous of all this dtd talk!  My oh has a really low sex drive and he's so incredibly stressed about work at the moment it's just not happening at all   I'm away for 6 weeks now...

All this stuff about regular ejaculation to improve dna fragmentation is so interesting.  Of my four pregnancies only 2 have made it beyond the chemical stage and those two, both of which I mc at 8 weeks, were when we dtd twice around ovulation as opposed to just the once, wonder if that's related.  And yes, sadly I do mean just twice over the whole ov period, not twice a day!

So I'm in Athens, have an appointment at Serum this afternoon and they're going to decide whether to do a day 3 transfer (today) or day 5 on Saturday.  My lovely donor produced 11 eggs and the following morning we had 10 embryos which is slightly better than last time although if it's sperm issues, as we suspect, they will only start to deteriorate after day 3 I guess.  I'll keep you posted.

Love to all x


----------



## highlandgirl

Syd - That's so exciting today or Saturday! EEK!  10 Embies is fab! Praying for you Syd! 
And yes we only DTD 3 times around OV for last months CP so I am of the thinking that all DH's should be doing their self care lol every 2-3 days if they are not DTD with us ladies that could work no? xx
I read about the sperm meets egg plan and I think it is pretty much what we all saying that more regular sex is what makes success... heres a clip from their webpage:-

SMEP, the “Sperm Meets Egg Plan” is a TTC (trying to conceive) plan that helps you get pregnant faster with ovulation awareness and intercourse timing. Even if you time intercourse perfectly, you’ve only got a 25% chance to get pregnant each cycle. The SMEP method ensures you get that 1 in 4 shot by literally making sure the sperm and egg have every opportunity to meet each and every cycle.

In order to ensure sperm and egg meet, you will “try” every other day starting on the eighth day of your cycle. The timing of this is based on how long sperm live, realistically a few days under ideal conditions. On the tenth day of your cycle you will begin daily testing with OPKs (ovulation prediction kits) and upon receiving a positive OPK you will “try” 3 more days in a row. Skip one day and give it one more try.

Then the waiting begins… if your period has not arrived 15 days after your positive OPK, take a home pregnancy test. It may be tempting to test early, as some home pregnancy tests now can detect a positive as early as 8 days past ovulation.


----------



## Laquinn

Syd - Congrats on the embies!  Young egg is supposed to help correct dna fragmentation issues so have faith   

Highlandgirl - DH SA was brilliant - above average. Would never have guessed we had a male factor from that. I guess we focus so much on egg quality dna fragmentation gets overlooked. I'm doing these tests at Serum: http://www.ivfserum.com/infection-screening/
Thanks for the heads up on triggering earlier - I guess my consultant knows what he's talking about! 
DH has good stamina! Losing our girl was heartbreaking but brought us a lot closer together 

Thanks for sharing the Liz Earle story. My brother-in-law's aunt and uncle and didn't get married 'til their mid-forties; they tried for a baby and after a few losses succeeded at 49! Their daughter is now a doctor. If you look at the stats lots of older women had babies after the war. xx


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn - We just need to keep the hope that we can repeat last months success and his swimmers will be fresh / good enough   
We went through some serious trauma in the past 2 years and that is what has brought us closer together as well so I hear ya xx 
I cant even begin to imagine the heartbreak you both went through but so glad to see you are stronger together xx  
DH has a fairly good sex drive in that he's up for it every week - I think if we weren't up every morning so early and weren't as stressed we would DTD naturally more often but hey ho just need to make the most of when we can!


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - Yep - freshness seems to be the key!  
Sorry to hear you've been through some serious trauma too   - hopefully this year will be kind to all of us   xx
Quite often you read that it was the cycle that they never thought would work and had missed ovulation etc is the one that works!


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn - Sneaking in a day 8 scan on Monday to see what is what in there  What day are you on? xx


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - 14DPO with AF due on Saturday. I am extremely premenstrual and currently eating poppadoms!  
I've got to get scanned by my consultant next cycle but it's worked out that DH has to go down to the clinic CD10 to see the urologist so I'll be getting scanned there providing AF shows up on time... xx


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn - That's good timing eh? Where will DH see the urologist? PS Mini poppadoms from M & S - addictive .....


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - Yeah! As long as AF turns up on time... Urologist is at the clinic in Epsom too. I might try and get a hysteroscopy next cycle if no joy so might have to take a month off. Are you gonna take Letrozole this cycle?


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn - Im sure AF will turn up   Glad to see your clinic are so quick with their appts! what will the hysto do for you and do you need to miss out a cycle if you get one?
No Letrozole this cycle I am on CD5 today didnt use it on my last CP cycle so I think just replicate the same again and hope for a better result   xx


----------



## sunshine02468

Hi Ladies
I am new to this. I just joined this site and found your post. I am looking to connect with some women who are over 45years young.  I hope I can join in your group. I've been feeling discouraged lately bc my RE only recommends using donor eggs at this point and I am not ready to give up on my own eggs. My mother had my brother and I naturally when she was 43 & 45yo. So I think there is some hope for me yet. I am located in the US and the cost of IVF is so expensive. I am starting to look into traveling abroad to Czech Republic or Poland. I have family in Poland but am leaning toward the czech republic bc of good reviews and value. 

Laquinn Iam looking into Reprofit. Have you used them before? Any advice you can share is appreciated.
I have been trying to find some current reviews on the IVF clinics in Czech Republic on this site but everything I find is from 2-8yrs ago. Can someone let me know where I should be looking?

Highlandergirl. I have not heard of the sperm meets egg plan but I will be sure to look into  this.  

I wish you all lots of positive energy and blessings in your journeys.


----------



## Forestcat1

Hello, wondering if anyone in the over-45s group would be interested in travelling to Greece for treatment in a small group for moral support?


----------



## Laquinn

Pizzicato - I'm hoping the hysteroscopy will ensure that there's no adhesions or scarring preventing implantation. I'll ask my consultant if he thinks it's necessary but I just want to make sure I'm doing everything I can. Still waiting to hear back from Reprofit to see if I need to take a month off. What day do you think you'll ovulate?

Sunshine - Welcome. I haven't used Reprofit before but there are threads of people cycling there and people who have cycled there before if you search the forum. People seem happy with the service. I am considering donor egg and think they will have suitable donors.

Forestcat - Sounds like a plan but I'm heading to the Czezh Republic! 

Wishing everyone a gentle weekend Xx


----------



## Syd72

Hi ladies, quick update from me.  Ended up transferring two on day 3 and it's once again looking like nothing to freeze so I can't see why the two transferred would work, there's clearly a real sperm problem as that's two different proven donors and nothing to transfer.  OH won't consider double donor so this will likely be end of the road for us.

Forestcat I'm in Athens at the moment 

Sunshine welcome and best of luck.  There certainly seem to be a lot of good reviews from the Czech Republic clinics.

HG, really hopeful for you this cycle.

Laquinn, hope all is well.

Sunflower, hope you and hubby are well.

Hi to everyone else.


----------



## Laquinn

Syd - The young egg may still correct OH sperm issues. There's so much can be done to improve sperm quality (Agate has lots of good info on her what you can learn from your failed IVF cycle file). I would take a few months off, get a dna frag test to know exactly what you're dealing with, see a urologist... You never know, you might end up doing it naturally if there's been a male factor all along.

AFM - CD2 and started on the 10mg of Letrozole. At the feel good point in my cycle!

Hope everyone else is well?

xxx


----------



## Syd72

Thanks Laquinn but his dna fragmentation came back fine. My final two embyies made it to blast on day 6 so they've been frozen.


----------



## Laquinn

Syd - Yay!!!   Fanstastic news - back in the game. Everything crossed this is the one.    

The clinic I'm looking at are offering me a back up of frozen donor eggs if OE doesn't work out. Does anyone know what the success rates of using frozen donor eggs compared to fresh donor eggs is?

Thanks!
xxx


----------



## Syd72

Laquinn, frozen donor eggs or embryos?  I think you're using own sperm so I'm assuming it's frozen eggs?  In which case I think the success rate is lower than with fresh donor eggs.


----------



## Laquinn

Syd - From what I can see from googling it's around 10% less successful but that seems to be because there's less eggs to make more embryos. I'll ask the clinic what their own rates are but could be a good option for me...


----------



## Syd72

Absolutely, if you can afford it go for it x


----------



## Laquinn

Syd - Clinic says their success rate with frozen donor eggs is 7% less than with fresh donor eggs. They guarantee 6-8 eggs. I should probably just go for fresh donor and forget about OE but if there's a wee chance with OE... Also have to take into account male factor now... Might have to go for DE with that in play. Fingers crossed superovulation works and I don't have to do any of it! x

How are you today? 

Hope everyone else is okay? xxx


----------



## Syd72

I'm good thanks although feeling the higher dosage of progesterone - permanently knackered.

You shouldn't just forget about OE, if it's important to you then stick with it and try again.  The beauty of donor eggs is there's no time pressure.  As you say, hopefully this is all academic


----------



## JasB171

Hi all, sorry it’s taken a while to respond. It’s all been a bit hectic!

Thanks everyone for your kind comments - and apologies if I miss anything I was asked…

Laquinn –I am on a kind of weird protocol because it went wrong at the beginning. I was meant to be doing the long protocol, but after taking buserelin for 2 weeks, had to stop because my period hadn’t arrived and I had a work commitment coming up. Then my period went AWOL for a while and, when it did finally come, I started on the short protocol – menopur, adding in cetrotide from day 5 – but still with the hangover of the buserelin I guess? Thanks for that link the woman who got pregnant after lots of IVF – I really enjoyed reading that!!  Did AF turn up for you on time? (sorry if I missed that in the thread…). Hope so! 

Sunflowerseeds – I started on day 3 of my cycle this time – but still stimming!!

Highlandgirl – that’s pretty amazing that you lost 2.5 stone before Xmas and have managed to keep 2 stone off – that’s what you should focus on (not the half stone you have put back on!).  

Syd – congrats on the transfer and that’s really great that the final two made it to blast and are frozen!  Try to stay optimistic!  And I really hope that these are sticky ones!! 

I am now on day 10 of stims. At my scan yesterday, I still had 10 follicles, but they are growing slowly.  My clinic only wants to take them out when they are over 18mm and most were around the 13-15 mark, so they want me to stim for another 2-3 days.  I am worried now though after reading in this thread that it is better to try with slightly less mature eggs?!  I have a scan tomorrow afternoon, so fingers crossed they are (a) still there and (b) have grown! I don’t want to do too many more of these horrible injections… 

Wow – hats off to those of you who manage to DTD twice a day!  Or even twice a week.  Like your OH, Syd, mine doesn’t have the highest drive and is also stressed too about work.  I used to have a high one, but now I can’t really be bothered that much…  Highlandgirl – I also use clearblue, which allows me to demand it at least every 3 days during that fertile window when we are trying naturally!   The SMEP sounds intense – although I am making sure that DH is regularly DIYing at the moment in the hope that we do make it to EC!  

Hi and good luck to everyone else!

x


----------



## miamiamo

@JasB171 good luck with yr scan tomorrow


----------



## Laquinn

Syd - Fingers crossed! Hope your embies are bedding in nicely x

JasB - Thanks for the info about your protocol. AF arrived on time but my luteal phase seems to be 16 days long now. 
I'm sure your clinic must know what they're doing re: follie size? I don't know a lot about it except my consultant seems to likes to trigger early. Fingers crossed for your scan.

AFM - I'm CD 5 today and getting scanned on Monday so fingers crossed for some nice follies. Had a horrible experience today in the hairdressers; my hairdresser who knows about our late loss is herself 7 months pregnant (I didn't know 'til today) and insisted on rubbing her pregnant belly in my face whilst doing my hair (!) I know it probably wasn't malicious but honestly - some people are so insensitive!

Hope everyone else is well x


----------



## highlandgirl

Sunshine02468 – Welcome to our thread you will find a great group of supportive ladies here all looking for the same result x
I don’t have any advice for you on the CR IVF options but there will be other threads on here for ladies cycling at clinics there I would hope? Just type into the search bar and see what comes up? Or start a thread yourself? Good Luck xx

Forestcat1 – Welcome to our thread I am sorry but I am not sure of anyone apart from Syd who is currently cycling in Greece xx Maybe try to search for a thread or start one from scratch after all I started this one and look how fabulous it is! Xx

Laquinn - How are you? How are you feeling on 10mg as opposed to 5mg?  
Sorry to hear about your hairdresser!?! Jeez!
Scan on Monday? Exciting! I am sure the increased dose will make a difference I am intrigued as I have exactly enough Letrozole for a cycle of 10mg per day and a trigger shot left in the fridge lol! 
Will you be asking about the hysto when you are there on Monday? And will DH be getting another DNA test?
Questions Questions!
I always think if you can try with OE you should until the options are no longer there my friend who has the DE twins always says you can always go for DE later as age is not as important.
We just wont go down the DE route for various reasons but as I know from my friends experience it is a very real option – she went to California and to a clinic who have a 80% success rate – twins on first DEIVF cycle after various Clomid / IUI’s and 6 unsuccessful IVF OE cycles…
I still cant get my head around the trigger shot – I understand that we should trigger earlier as we more mature ladies have a better chance with less mature eggs but not sure what constitutes a less mature egg – 13 / 14 / 15 / 16 / 17mm?
My consultant thinks 17mm and over but I also had the consult with Dr Gleicher who says 13 – 14mm… 

Syd – Great news re 2 in the oven and 2 on ice! Lol  EEK!! Where in the world are you at the moment Syd?
I have 400mg of Cyclogest pessaries and have been told to take 2 per day – are you on higher than that – I wondered why I was so beep knackered!

JasB171 – Sorry to hear about your mixed up protocol – I did short protocol on my IVF!
I hear you about the weight it’s a real struggle for me as I have had a problem for a long time with food  but yes I am super proud of the loss!
That’s a fab amount of follicles praying you get a few to collect and possibly freeze after fertilisation if that’s an option!
Fingers crossed for you JASB171 – keep us posted x

AFM – Had a scan on day 8 only 1 follicle on my left ovary nothing on right and a lining of 6.8mm – this is the worst scan I have ever had BUT I am going for it anyway – waiting on a PEAK from the clearblues but so far on HIGH but now having a bit of EWCM so here’s hoping we are game on! 
It only takes 1! 
Will need to check about the cyclogest dose etc as I think that helped but its no fun!  
I stopped taking the DHEA at the start of Feb so not sure if that was helping so may have to start it again! 
I don’t want to think ahead as I am trying to stay in the moment but I am going to try and lose more weight and also go for the 5 / 10mg Letrozole and trigger from next cycle if this wee juicy lucy or luke is not the one ( but lets hope she / he is!) and add the DHEA again – F it! Im all in LOL xxx 
As women we can change our minds on an hourly basis can’t we?? …!


----------



## Laquinn

highlandgirl - I'm not bad thanks - feeling better for eating more keto I think. 10mg of Letrozole is fine - I went a bit crazy yesterday but I think that was the hairdresser! I felt like saying - I'm sorry but I really don't feel this is appropriate - can someone else do my hair? But I just bit my tongue and smiled as she went on about packing her bag for the hospital etc Does make you wonder...  
I'm on Progynova to thicken my lining too.
Yeah, gonna ask about the hysto. DH should get his retest results back next week. 
If we go for IVF I'm going to try OE with frozen DE back up.
Yeah, there does seem to be a bit of a range of ideal follie sizes... Hopefully I'll have some to trigger on Monday. 

Fingers crossed for your juicy lucy or luke   There seems to be a lot of people having success with DHEA - I'd be on it if it weren't for my thyroid issues. 

Changing our minds is our prerogative!  

xxx


----------



## Forestcat1

Would love to chat with anyone interested in travelling to Greece for ovarian rejuvenation (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5422761/Ovarian-rejuvenation-offers-pregnancy-hope-menopause.html)
Looks like a safe, easy and cost effective procedure - would be great to hear from anyone interested. Good luck in your journeys X


----------



## Laquinn

Forestcat - Thanks for sharing. There's a woman on the thyroid thread who had the treatment and it didn't work for her. Have you had any information from the Greek Clinics about success rates? X


----------



## Forestcat1

Thanks Laquinn, I got this from the clinic.  I think it's early days for the results but this is what they say: 

PRP is a procedure applied by us to menopausal or perimenopausal
women since late 2015. More than 500 patients
have experienced this technique and data coming from patients
from all over the world having already experienced the
technique with us show that half of patients with amenorrhea
show recovery of menses and ovulation in the subsequent cycles.
Seven ongoing pregnancies are reported so far following IVF
(three in a natural cycle and four under stimulation). The rest of
patients shows no reaction at all apparently due to their ovarian
status and inability to resuscitate their ovarian deposits.
The results of the application of our technique has been
demonstrated in three international congresses, but the overall
influence in the reproductive outcome has not been evaluated yet,
respecting that in next months.


----------



## Syd72

Jas, how are those follies doing?

HG, sorry you had a bad scan, any update?

Laquinn, going on about packing her bag etc when she knows about your loss is unacceptable.  Why can't people be less self-centered!  How was your scan today?

It's all about the scanning on here at the moment 

So not sure if I have news or not.  As of this morning I was 11dp3dt, OTD is Wednesday.  I've been getting positive tests but I had a 250mcg ovitrelle booster the day after transfer I don't know if that's what's causing the positives.  Cheapies have been positive for the past 4 days and seem to be getting darker but I don't really trust them.  I got "pregnant 1-2" on a digi this morning but as that's only 9 1/2 days after the booster I don't know if it's a true positive.  Will have to see what happens over the next couple of days.


----------



## Laquinn

Syd - Scan went well. Only one big follie this time but got the trigger shot at the clinic. I've got to take cycologest too this cycle   Our Consultant said he thinks my ovaries are responding well to stimulation and it would be a good idea to try embryo banking. DH's consultation didn't go so well but; the urologist said it was one of the worst results he had seen - feel heartbroken for DH and kind of wish we'd never started out on this. But DH is being philosophical about it; hopefully his retest results will be better. He got tested for infections today and the consultant said if there's no improvement with the retest we should go straight to IVF and ICSI. 

Must be nice seeing those positives! Everything crossed they stay


----------



## JasB171

Laquinn – sorry to hear about your DH’s results   When will he be retested?  I know it’s difficult – especially the thought of doing IVF/ICSI – but if that would by-pass the issue, then it would definitely be worthwhile thinking about it.  But good news that your ovaries are responding well to stimulation!! And I agree with highlandgirl – worth trying with your OE first – particularly if you are likely to respond well to stims.  As for the hairdresser, that is really insensitive.  I can only assume that she had completely forgotten your experience (if she hadn’t, that is completely out of order), but it doesn’t excuse it. People really should be more sensitive anyway – no-one knows what other people have gone/are going through.

Syd – Oooh that looks good to be getting positives!!  Really hoping that that continues. Do you have to go for a blood test to confirm?  Keeping my fingers crossed for you!!

Good luck Highlandgirl with that one follicle – it only takes one! And I’m sure your lining will thicken up nicely – I was told anything over 7mm would be fine and you were nearly there on day 8.

AFM – egg retrieval happened yesterday.  We got 9 eggs and I heard today that all 9 were mature and that 8 of them have fertilised normally with ICSI.  I know that some will die off over the next few days, but this is a much better starting position than my last cycle where I had 3 eggs (all mature again) and 2 fertilised normally.  Keeping everything crossed that 1 or 2 make it to blast! 
Thanks for your well wishes and good luck to everyone!


----------



## Laquinn

JasB - Congrats on the fertilised eggs! Everything crossed they make it to blast. Are you doing PGS?

DH got retested last week so just waiting on the results - when we get them back we'll know our next steps. If they're still poor then he'll need more tests but I think ICSI and TESE could be possibilities. I think embryo banking could be a good option; then they could really push my ovaries without worrying about the lining. 

Still giving it a good shot this cycle after triggering yesterday - hoping the Spring Equinox gives us some fertility magic! 

Hope everyone else is well? 

xxx


----------



## rabbit2018

Hello, everyone, I am new here.

I am also struggling to do IVF with my own eggs. I did several cycles. In the first several cycles, the doctors used a lot of medication but finally the results were not good. And then I tried to use natural cycle or mini IVF with less medication, however, I found my follicles could not grow evenly when I used injections, but with big difference. The doctor usually just used more medication like Cetrotide or Orgalutran to suppress the growth of the biggest ones. But I found this solution does not fit me (All the doctors used them for me except Natural cycle), and failed at the end.
Does anyone have the same situation? How to handle if the follicles can not grow evenly?

I tried Natural cycle, and two follicles with similar size were seen by ultrasound but finally only one egg was collected (I think another one released earlier) and grew to HB blastocyst, but it did not pass PGS. So I am thinking maybe I fit Natural cycle, but I hesitate to do PGS (I did PGS twice, and finally all had problems). for the women over 40 years old, all the doctors said there are more eggs which have chromosome problems, so I was afraid of miscarriage and did PGS.

I usually have basic 10 follicles, 14 eggs were collected with more medication in two cycles, but after those two cycles failed, I am afraid more medication affect the quality of the eggs, does anyone think so?

I am really confused how to do for the next cycles? Hope to get some advices from anyone in the same boat. XX


----------



## Syd72

Welcome rabbit, I can't really advise you I'm afraid as I'm now using donor eggs but the other lovely ladies on here will be able to.  

Laquinn fingers crossed for OH's results and good luck this cycle!

Jas those are brilliant numbers, well done!

HG how are you doing?  I'm in Budapest at the moment.  Heading to the UK for a few weeks on Friday, so excited about picking up my dogs 

Hi to everyone else x

Afm, I got another strong positive on clearblue plus on Tuesday and yesterday I got "pregnant 2-3" on a digi so that's my bfp   Long way to go, been here many times before, but allowing some excitement to creep in, this is my first ivf bfp in 3 cycles (2 donor).  Annoyingly I'm away with work at the moment so can't get bloods until Friday when I land back in the UK and I guess won't get the results til Monday but can't be helped.


----------



## Laquinn

Rabbit - Welcome   At the moment I'm doing superovulation cycles with Letrozole, so I guess quite gentle stims, but my consultant is suggesting doing back to back egg collection and really pushing my ovaries as they are responding well; so I've not done IVF yet but looking for the same answers as you. From what I've read doing the back to back collection you can get eggs from the smaller follicles from the previous cycle and you don't have to worry about thin lining because you're embryo banking. I'm considering PGS too if I can afford it but have read about abnormal embryo's correcting themselves after transfer so not sure. 

Syd - Congratulations!!!     Enjoy being in the moment and being pregnant    

OH's retest results came back and they were 'very good'!!!   A complete reversal of the first test; so I guess abstaining for a week is not good for dna fragmentation! I'm so glad we retested and saved a lot of heartache, time and money. It could be that there is an issue there and he has to keep things fresh but it is good in that it's got OH thinking that diet and supplements etc are important for him too. 

Hope everyone else is well  

xxx


----------



## Syd72

Thanks Laquinn.  That's fantastic news!


----------



## esj

Syd72 that's Amazing news! So pleased for you. Keep us posted xxx


----------



## sunshine02468

Syd- Congratulations!! I am very happy and excited for you!!

Laquinn -great news re  OH's retest. So that means you continue forward ?!

Syd, Laquinn are either of you at Reprofit? I can'r remember who said they were going there? I am planning on going to Reprofit the 3rd week of April? Looking to find a buddy I can connect with there!  I will try the Reprofit board, but thought I would post here also.

Hope everyone had a great weekend!  Good luck to all you ladies out there still trying!!


----------



## JasB171

Laquinn  sorry, I got confused in my last message  I thought that the urologist had performed a new test and that those were the latest results.  That is really great that the test results are so good! Congrats to your OH!  He must feel so much better after that  we all know how crap it is to be told constantly how our eggs are old and decrepit, so I can imagine he was feeling pretty miserable about it all.  And great that he has embraced a healthy diet and supplements.  I have got mine taking pregnacare conception for men, but thats about as far as we have got

As for PGS, I am not sure.  When we first did IVF last summer, we thought that we would do it, but when we only ended up with one embryo to transfer, we decided against it.  I think that, having looked into it in more detail, Im more inclined not to do it.  I know that theres a huge chance of my embryos having genetic abnormalities, but Im not convinced by the PGS testing -  I would worry that all would come back abnormal when there might be a chance of one correcting itself.  If we do have some to transfer, I am hoping that any abnormal embryos would either not implant or I would miscarry early (not nice at all I know).  But obviously, there would always be a fear that there would be some problem.  But does PGS test for absolutely every possible genetic abnormality/syndrome?

Syd  such awesome news!!! Congratulations!!   I know its early days, but that is really really excellent news.  Sounds like you travel a lot with work  I could do with a job like that  Enjoy picking up your dogs tomorrow  

Hi Rabbit  Im not sure I can be of much help.  I have undergone 2 rounds of IVF/ICSI: the first I used menopur and orgalutran and the second I used menopur and cetrotide.  In my first cycle, I had one ovary completely shut down and all the follicles fill with blood. In this cycle (I am part way through it), they grew on both ovaries although I lost some along the way, but we did manage to stop the bigger ones running away, which allowed the smaller ones to catch up.  I dont really know what to advise on the amount of medication  for my first cycle I was on 300 menopur the whole time (I stimmed for 9 days).  This time, I was on 300 menopur for the first 9 days and then 225 menopur until day 12 of stims. One thing I did change (without mentioning it to my clinic) was that I took aspirin (75mg) for the first 5 days or so of stims in this cycle, which I believe helped with the blood flow.  

So, today is day 3 of my embryo development.  The latest is that out of the 8 that fertilised, all have divided and 6 are very good quality and 2 are medium quality.  I am really happy with those results so far  I think I read somewhere that, on average (and probably not taking account of advanced maternal age  makes me feel about 100!  ), only 20-50% of day 3 embryos make it to day 5, so I am sure some will drop off between now and Saturday, but everything crossed, I will get to transfer on Saturday!!  Hoping to be able to transfer 2, but dont want to count my chickens

A quick question for you ladies who have used cyclogest - do you find it makes such a mess? I have tried lying down for 30 mins but it still goes everywhere!  

x


----------



## sunshine02468

Congratulations JasB!! Those are great numbers.  Sending prayers that as many embryos as possible make it to day5 and that ET goes well. Fingers crossed for you.


----------



## Laquinn

Syd - Thanks - what a relief!  

Sunshine - Next step is a hysteroscopy but I think we're gonna give the superovulation a few more rounds. DPO1 today - fingers crossed this is the cycle! If superovulation dosen't work then planning on going to Reprofit. What's your treatment plan at Reprofit?

JasB - I'm not sure about PSG either... Did you do two egg collection cycles back to back? Sending lots of positive vibes for your embies    

I start the cyclogest on Saturday  

xxx


----------



## JasB171

Thanks Sunshine!  Where are you at at the moment with your cycle?

Laquinn - Thank you! I have just done two IVF cycles in total - one last July (when I ended up with just one blast transferred from 3 eggs collected) and this one now.  I think we have decided against PGS.  It's so hard isn't it?!  Have you used cyclogest before?  I'm not a fan  - it's so waxy! 
x


----------



## Laquinn

JasB - What did you change about your protocol to get a better result with this cycle? I've not done cyclogest before and not looking forward to it. Staying over with family at the weekend and think I might have to get some heavy duty pants to wear in bed by the sounds of other people's experience of it! x


----------



## JasB171

Laquinn - I'm not sure really what did it. For a start, I started off with more follicles - I had 16 or 17 this time compared to 12 last time.  But the follicles definitely grew more evenly this time. My clinic wonders if it is because I sort of did a weird hybrid protocol with some down-regging for 2 weeks back in Jan (after which my period went AWOL). But I am also wondering whether it is because I took aspirin for the first few days of stimming - I wonder if it stopped the follicles on my left ovary keeling over and dying. Of course, we don't know what will happen by tomorrow yet - just keeping my fingers crossed that some are still alive and developing as they should at the moment!

As for the cyclogest, you will be ok with a smallish pad i'd have thought. I just don't really like the white waxy mess it makes - and because you have to use it for so long!  Enjoy! 
x


----------



## Laquinn

JasB - I am completely clueless about IVF but have been trying to read a bit about it. Your results would fit in with this?
https://haveababy.com/fertility-information/ivf-authority/ovarian-stimulation-in-ivf-why-it-is-important-to-down-regulate-lh/comment-page-13#comments
Fingers crossed for tomorrow   

Thanks for the tip for the cyclogest  x


----------



## rabbit2018

Syd, congrats for your BFP! Finger crossed your embies grow stronger and stronger.

Laquinn, yes, I also heard that embryos can correct themselves when they grow in the uterine, so I am also hesitating to do PGS, let me think about it, if I can get more blastocysts, I would like to do it.
Great that OH's retest became good, I think it will also help your success for your superovulation cycle. Waiting for your good news.

JasB171, thank you for sharing the information. You had a great cycle this time, 8 3-day embryos, it is really a lot. Hope they can grow well and you can get more 5-day blastocysts. one question, I know aspirin is good for implantation, do you think it is also good for stimulation and get more good quality eggs? If so, I will also try it next cycle.
Usually cyclogest will be used after egg collection if you want to transfer this cycle, it will be helpful for implantation, I think.


----------



## JasB171

Laquinn - I'm not sure really whether my results do fit in with that. It wasn't a deliberate approach by my clinic to do this.  The original intention was to do the long protocol (down-regging with buserelin until AF, then using menopur and buserlin from day 2-3 of my AF), but this was scrapped after 14 days of down-regging as I ran out of time to fit it in with work.  I had then expected my period to come, but it didn't until it was day 78 of my previous cycle.  Given the uncertainty of timing, my clinic agreed to me going back to the short protocol once my AF arrived if the results of my AFC scan were good enough - as I had the highest number I have pretty much ever had, they gave the go-ahead.  So I then started on menopur only until day 5 when I started the antagonist (cetrotide). So it was all a bit messed up!  Thanks - really hoping they are hanging on in there today!!

Rabbit - thank you!  Yes - it is so much better this cycle than last, but we have to see what tomorrow brings before I can be relaxed about it.  I  am not 100% about the aspirin - I just thought I would give it a go.  I have been taking it every day for several months and I think I was taking it before my first cycle too, but the difference is that I stopped taking it then as soon as I started the IVF meds.  This time, I continued until day 5 or 6.  I have read that it can help - but you should make sure that you don't take the full strength ones - just the 75mg ones.  When are you planning to do the next cycle?  Best of luck with it!

x


----------



## JasB171

Quick update from me - just 2 made it to full blast.  Both top quality (so a lot better than my first cycle) and both put back in.  Now just the long wait until the test (an extra day long due to Easter!).

X


----------



## rabbit2018

JasB171, great that you had 2 good quality blasts, fingers crossed for your BFP!

I will do next cycle in April or in May, not decided finally yet. Thank you for your explanation about aspirin.


----------



## Laquinn

JasB - Everything crossed for your bfp    

rabbit - How are you finding Reprofit so far? 

AFM - 4DPO due to test on Saturday. It's been 18 months since we lost our daughter and not a whisper of a pregnancy...   Hopefully the big fat follie we saw on the scan is our golden egg   Waiting on infections testing results and if bfn getting a hysteroscopy next cycle. 

Hope everyone else is having a nice weekend.

xxx


----------



## miamiamo

@Laquinn -keep fingers and toes crossed xx


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Hi 

Syd - congratulations on your BFP. I’m really pleased for you. Hope the rest of your pregnancy goes well. 

Jas - good to hear your last cycle has gone better. 2 blasts sounds wonderful. Hope your tww is relaxing and hoping you get your BFP. 

Laquinn - hope your tww is relaxing for you too. Fingers crossed for your BFP next Saturday. 

Highlander - are you on your tww? Hope all’s well with you all. 

Hope everyone else is doing well. 

Take care x


----------



## rabbit2018

Laquinn， sorry to hear that you lost your daughter before, fingers crossed for your BFP this time.
I chose Reprofit because it can allow me to do treatment very soon and did not ask for a lot of tests.  The clinic has a good enviroment, Brno is a city which can makes me feel relaxed. I think their Lab is good. But they usually only do twice ultrasound scan to monitor the size of the follicles and lining, no blood test, it made me worry  and not know the development of the follicles well. In addition, the doctors of consultation, ultrasound, egg collection, and embryo transfer are usually different, consultation doctor are same all the time, but others are just at random.
It is not easy to make a comment on it. I just tried and feel balanced for it from all the aspects. From the price, it is not expensive. 
Have a nice evening!


----------



## Syd72

Hi ladies, sorry for the silence, hectic few days, just trying to catch up now.

Laquinn, everything crossed for Saturday.

Jas, that's fantastic.  When is otd?

Thanks for all the congratulations.  First set of bloods, 2 days after otd, were 446.50, seems like a fairly average number for the date.  Getting repeats tomorrow, already feeling nervous...


----------



## Laquinn

miamiamo - Thanks   xx

rabbit - Thanks   And thanks for your thoughts on Reprofit.

Syd - Thanks   Great news about the bloods  

AFM - Got the results back from our Serum infections testing and it turns out we have herpes   My ex had the simplex virus and DH had it years ago, but we got tested for infections on the NHS and didn't think anymore of it. I guess it gives us a way forward but kind of heartbreaking to think it could have caused our losses and subsequent infertility. Just waiting to hear back from Penny for advice...

xxx


----------



## JasB171

Thank you everyone!

Rabbit – good luck with your next cycle!! 

Sunflowerseeds –I am going to try to take it a bit easy during the 2ww (helped by having the Easter break), but I think the progesterone is making me tired (or it could just be that my work is really boring at the moment!!)  How are you doing?

Laquinn –can’t believe that you did NHS tests and they didn’t pick that up (although having said that, I’m don’t think we have ever been tested for herpes.  Not sure!). It’s quite common isn’t it, the herpes virus?  Do they think it could have caused your losses and subsequent issues? I went more than 18 months after miscarrying before I got pregnant (albeit briefly) again naturally – so I guess it can take time.  But best of luck testing on Saturday – hoping the big fat follicle is your golden Easter egg!  

Syd – that’s great re: your bloods – best of luck tomorrow with the next lot!  

My OTD is 2 April, but as it’s Easter Monday, I will have to wait until next Tuesday.  I have been told not to do any other testing before then. Hmm…

How is everyone else doing?

xx


----------



## Laquinn

JasB - Penny said that it can prevent implantation and cause miscarriage but not stillbirth; but I've read elsewhere that it can cross the placenta in the third trimester and can cause anti-nuclear antibodies and autoimmune thyroid conditions to flare which can contribute to a late loss. I'll need to take anti-viral medication during pregnancy. It causes dna fragmentation which explains DH results; quick turn-around of sperm negates the effects of herpes so he scored better when abstaining less. xx


----------



## Amadeus

Hello Girls – I hope that you do not mind that join the thread. I am 45 and banked number of embryos for PGS last year. We ended with 5 normal ones and currently down to 3.  One miscarried, the other did not take. I also had hysteroscopy in November which in the end might not have been a good idea -  my subsequent FET took three hours due some obstruction in cervix which we are still investigating. I also did immune tests and now being advised to do intralipds to bring my TNF-a down. In all honesty I am not sure how I feel about this.  I guess I am growing tired of IVF and have been looking for inspiration and reassurance that I am not complexly crazy to put myself thru all of this at 45.


----------



## Sk73

Hi all, new to this site and to this tread. Amadeus - no you are not mad for trying. I'm 45 and trying with my own eggs too!. I'm wondering if anyone could give advice on any good clinics abroad who have a good track record with women my age using their own egg and who also do cgh/pgs screening? Any advice would be appreciated as I'm getting quite stressed looking at all the clinics and don't know who to trust. Many thanks! Xx


----------



## JasB171

Laquinn – gosh I had no idea about all that.  Good that you have found that out now then, so that you can take steps in the future.  How did it go for you over the weekend?  Hope it was good news! 

AFM, my news is bad news, I’m afraid.  I had my beta HCG today and it was negative.  I was really hoping that, given that the cycle had gone so well so far, we would have better news, but it is obviously not meant to be. So that’s me off the meds from tonight to wait for AF to arrive…  And I think that’s me with IVF too.  I kind of figure that if my body doesn’t want to play ball with 2 top quality embryos, there’s not much point going through it all again.  I think I was lucky this time to end up with 2 good embies (my clinic was extremely pleased with that), so I don’t think I would be so lucky again, and I just don’t think I can do it all over again, especially given that I have only managed to do 2 cycles in the last year.  Sick of it and sick of my crappy body.

Amadeus and Sk73 – welcome to the thread and apologies for my negativity – I’m probably not best placed to provide any inspiration or advice right now, but hopefully some of the lovely, supportive ladies on this thread will be able to help. 

I hope everyone else is doing well!
x


----------



## Laquinn

Amadeus - Welcome and sorry to hear about your struggles   I've not done IVF yet so can't really comment. The cold hard fact is that at this age we have a 2.5% chance of getting pregnant each cycle naturally. But I guess everyone's unique and some people have managed it on this thread if you read back through it. There is a lot more success on the over 50's thread where they are using donor eggs. I am considering embryo banking too but maybe just so I can make peace with donor egg. 

Sk73 - Hello and welcome to you too   I'm looking at Reprofit at the moment but a lot of people like Serum too but they don't do PGS. 

JasB - So sorry to hear about your test result   Your body isn't that crappy if you got two top quality embryos... Is there any chance you can try naturally?

bfn for me I'm afraid   Going to get a hysteroscopy next month if the dates work out and continue with the superovulation. I'm already sick of taking loads of meds and not even tried IVF yet! x


----------



## highlandgirl

Laquinn – I am so sorry to hear of your BFN this cycle I had been reading but never any time to comment but was really hoping for you xx 
When / Where will you get the hysto and are dates going to work out for you? Will you keep going with the current protocol?
Can’t believe that Herpes can cause all of those issues and that you never knew that’s pants!
I have the herpes virus and I am sure that DH does too EEK!
Glad to hear DH got a much better result that’s great news eh? And also good that the clinic feel you would respond well to the IVF meds if that is a route you go down 

SYD – CONGRATS!! so pleased for you – where are you at and how are you doing?? 

JASB171 – Sorry to hear about your BFN again you were showing such promise with those numbers! I hear you about the whole I’m done with IVF but give yourself a rest and then decide whatever is best for you. I would have kept going with the IVF if DH was up for it and the clinic was closer but I am ok with where we are at now and I am moving on x
There are many options for you so just have a rest and then make a plan if you want to you will x

Rabbit 2018 – Welcome to our thread 
I only have my 1 ivf cycle to go on and I took 5 days of Gonal F on a short protocol and still only had 4 possible eggs – 3 were retrieved – 2 fertilised but BFN
I have to say the follicle numbers and maturity etc doesn’t seem to get any better with the stims than it does with my letrozole cycles – not much help to you I know but!? Keep us posted and ask away! X

ESJ – How are you?? x

Sunshine 02468 – Good Luck for your Reprofit cycle x

Sunflowerseeds – How are you?? X

Amadeus – Welcome and no you are not crazy – keep going and leave no stone unturned until you feel you are ready to stop or choose another path – we are all in the same boat on here so please keep in touch xx

SK73 – Welcome – if you read back through the thread you will see many clinics being recommended and a whole host of options for us women over 45 with own eggs – please keep in touch and ask away! Xx

Sorry if I missed anyone!! xx

AFM –  Sorry for the silence again! BFN last cycle so went all in and started the letrozole today  had a baseline scan and have 2 on each side which is so much better than last scan and good lining and started back on the DHEA a couple of weeks ago. 
Cyclogest is a messy business ladies big pants / liners etc but it still goes bloody everywhere!
I did find actually sitting up working after putting it in wasn’t as bad? Bizarre….!


----------



## Sk73

Thank you ladies for the welcome!. So sorry JasB, I agree give yourself a bit of a break and then look at the options. I turned 45 in January and have had 2 failed ivf attempts so far, the embryos were found to be abnormal after ngs testing. However just to provide a bit of inspiration...I tried ivf for the first time 3 months before my 44th birthday with my own eggs and it worked! and I have a baby girl. I was told DE was my best bet and at my age I have a 5% or less chance. So it can happen and the doctors are not always right! There is nothing special I did my amh was an average 7. I desperately want to give her a sibling now. My AMH is now 6.1 and I still haven't lost hope. I can not however afford the cost of a uk clinic. @Highlandgirl many thanks I shall look back at the previous posts. @Laquinn I am considering Reprofit due to the price but I've yet to have a consultation with them. I did have a consultation with Serum and it just didn't feel right as they first told me they don't do pgs and it's only allowed for medical reasons...this is not true as other Greek clinics do the testing. There were a couple of other things that just didn't feel right to me. Apologies if anyone is having treatment with them, just my experience of them so far. Has anyone at 45 or above had success with Reprofit using their own eggs?


----------



## jess2018

Hi there,

I am going to try this treatment. When do you plan on going and have you spoken to the clinic?


----------



## Sk73

@jess I haven't spoken to anyone at Reprofit yet it was one of the clinics I was considering...


----------



## Laquinn

Highlandgirl - Thank you xx 
I was going to try and have a hysto this month at the clinic in Epsom but dates don't work for me so just going for another round of superovulation this month and try for hysto next month. I start the Letrozole tomorrow so we can be Letrozole buds this month! 
I'm wondering if I should be having baseline scans too? 
My reproductive immunologist says he doesn't believe in the Serum infections tests! 
Yeah - can't believe the difference in DH result... What a relief! 
Fingers crossed for this month...
What dose of Letrozole are you on? 

Sk73 - So lovely to hear your success story! I've not heard of anyone over 45 having success at Reprofit but haven't really investigated. One thing that does worry me is on the Reprofit thread people seem to say they are a bit one size fits all when it comes to protocol but will investigate alternatives if pushed. At which clinic did you have success with your daughter?


----------



## Sk73

@Laquinn I had all my treatments at Lister. I would stick with them but I can't afford it. I've decided against Reprofit as they don't  seem to have had any success with anyone my age using their own egg. I understand the stats are low but I'm sure there are clinic's who have had some success even if the numbers are low - I know Lister has had a few although they were honest and said not many. I still believe it is possible. I've also ruled out Serum as some of the things they said didn't sound right and New Life in Greece- I had a Skype consultation with them the other day and I felt like it was a business call!


----------



## Laquinn

Sk73 - Lister would be amazing! But yes, very pricey... I was thinking about Create as they have had success with a few over 45 yrs old with own eggs but my consultant says my ovaries are responding well to stims so I could really push them with embryo banking but Create only do mild ivf...


----------



## Sk73

@Laquinn I find the idea of mild ivf very confusing as I have read that it produces fewer but better quality eggs, but others have said it is not effective as it produces fewer eggs and makes no difference in terms of abnormalities - the chance of which is higher at our age. Is embryo banking where you do consecutive ivf cycles, freeze them and then do pgs testing?


----------



## Amadeus

Girls many thanks for the welcome.  I am slowly going thru the thread and catching up with everybody stories. 

SK73 – I banked my embryos over three cycles and then got them PGS tested. I think some of the clinics do testing as you go, in others you bank and test at the end. I transferred two so far. What frustrates me the most that clinics will give you odds of getting pregnant with PGS but very few actually will give you live birth stats.


----------



## miamiamo

Amadeus - you might ask a clinic to provide you with such stats, and it's also worth mentioning at what age category. If a clinic is realible, such stats isn't super secret to be highly protected.


----------



## Sk73

I agree, if it's a reputable clinic they should give you the stats. Don't  loose hope as if you had a couple pass the pgs testing that sounds pretty good as I've had none pass the testing this year. It only takes one!


----------



## sunshine02468

HI Ladies
Sorry I haven't responded lately. Life got busy and bc of it I've been eating  Easter candy all week! But I am getting back not track. Hope everyone had a nice Easter holiday!

I've been reading the thread and trying to catch up.

Hello and welcome to all the new ladies.

Amadeus- You are not crazy to try this journey now.  I am turning 46 in July and have just started this adventure too

Sk73- I have been trying to get the same answers as you, but have had no luck in learning which clinics have had more success or are better in helping with own egg  IVF at 45yo and older. I emailed with a Serum consultant, but did not like the fact that they do not do the PGS testing. Might try them later but for now I'd like my eggs PGS  tested to see what qualist they are at my age.

Laquinn- Sorry to hear everything you dealt with last cycle, but you gained some more knowledge and hopefully next cycle will go better. 

Syd- Congrats again on the wonderful news. Fingers crossed that all continues well for you!

Jasb- Sorry that your embys did not stay this time.  It not good to make important decisions when we are unhappy or upset. I am just starting this journey but I can see how hard it is to continue if you have been through this before. Others have said it's all a numbers game.  Give your self a break, get some rest and rethink what is right for you and what your next step will be.  

Rabbit - Have you decided when you are going to Reprofit? Is this your first time going there?

Highlandergirl - Sorry  that it didn't work for you last cycle? Hope the next one is better for you also!!

Hello to everyone else and sorry if I missed anyone.


----------



## sunshine02468

Hi again Ladies.
Just wanted to share an update on me. I am going to Reprofit around 4/26. Trying to plan it with my natural cycle but it has been changing and coming sooner than expected.

I finally got my protocol from Eva and am waiting for meds to arrive  to me in the US. The protocol is 300 Gonal F starting day 2 on, and Cetrotide and Ovitrelle.Looking for some feedback ladies as this is my first IVF. Does this sound like the standard protocol? Is 300 Gonal F a strong dose? I only did 150 gonal F for an IUI. They told me I don not  need to do a scan before day 7. Is this normal, what if things  are not going right? I have a skype consult with a doctor on 4/11 as this was the earliest they had available.

Also wondering when you ladies know to book a flight? Eva told me it might be best to wait till I get my period then book, As my cycle has changed recently. But every couple days I watch the fight prices go up! Should I just book and pay if I need to change the dates? DH is going with me so we'd have to pay to change 2 tickets.

I have booked some hotels with free cancellations.  I am getting very excited and nervous. I'm starting to worry and how nothing goes wrong and they don't cancel this cycle before I get a chance to go over and start.  

Is anyone else going to be in Reprofit at the end of April? Great to meet for some additional support while there.


----------



## Laquinn

sk73 - Yes, embryo banking you do back to back egg collections to try and get as many embryos to freeze with an option to PGS. 

Amadeus - What protocol were you on for your banking cycles?

sunshine - Hope you enjoyed your Easter candy! That's exciting that you'll be cycling soon; I don't know about protocols but keen to find out more too... From what I've read it's a good idea to have a baseline scan done to check there's no follies hanging around as cysts from the previous month? But I really don't know... 

I think there's info about travel and accommodation on a Reprofit file on the international thread and the ladies on the Reprofit thread will help.

Everything crossed it works for you - I'll be watching with great interest as that's my next step if superovulation doesn't work.


----------



## Sk73

Sunshine- I had a scan the first few days of my period and then scans and blood tests every couple of days during the treatment to see how the follicles were growing, if they needed to change the dosage etc. I had 375 Gonal f which was then increased to 450. The last cycle I also had Letrozole which I took for 5 days. I don't know what dossage is normal as I guess it depends on the individual. But I would expect a clinic to do regular scans/bloods to see how everything is going...


----------



## Amadeus

Hi Laquinn - for my first and third collection I was from day 2 on 225 Gonal-F (except a couple of days where I was on 300) and 75 of Luveris. I also took Cetrotide for 7 days or so towards the end and three days before collection Doxybene and Flagyl.  My AMH at 44 was quite high so after 1st collection they were worried about OHSS and lowered my doze to 150 Gonal-F and 75 of Luveris.  Once we were done with the third collection we sent all embryos for testing. I honestly think that Gonal F / Luveris dosage depends on how much they need to “push” follicles.


----------



## sunshine02468

Hi Ladies
Thank you all for info on the protocols.  I just finished my skype consult with Dr Kamil at Reprofit who seemed nice. Both he and Eva told me that a scan before day 7 would be to early to see anything and all follicles would be small. But I am going to do a scan at day 5 and day 7 before I leave for the clinic, it will give me an peace of mind to know everything looks ok.

I am worried that meds from Czech Republic might not arrive in time.  Not sure if there is anyone on this thread from the US, Eva sent me info on SMP Pharmacy Solutions based out of Miami, FL. I spoke to them and they will ship medication for next day delivery. They accept scripts from Czech Republic. However their cost is more that double that what I paid for Gonal F 900 IU from the Reprofit pharmacy. It is crazy that it is the same medication but the prices very soooooo much in diff states and countries. But now I have a back up in case I absolutely need to get the medication in a pinch. Just passing this along in case anyone needs it.

Hope all is going well for everyone.


----------



## Laquinn

Amadeus - Thanks for sharing your protocol. So is that a short protocol? I think I need to buy a book and read up about it all! 

Sunshine - Good luck with your cycle! Hope your scan goes well. What's Reprofit's cancellation policy if you don't respond to the meds or something else comes up?

Sk73 - I see the ladies on the low AMH, high FSH thread talk about baseline scans and blood tests and it makes sense to me. I guess you could do these on your own?

AFM - I'm on CD6 so last day of Letrozole. I'm getting scanned on Monday. I only had one big follie last month so I've got the hot water bottle out and started drinking milk again; last month I was eating more keto and I don't think putting your body into starvation mode is good for producing follies!

Has anyone got any good tips for encouraging follie growth and lining?

Hello to everyone else


----------



## Amadeus

Hi Laquinn - yes, sorry, it was short protocol all the way


----------



## Mum2M

Hi Ladies I was on FF when I was 40, 2years ago I sort of gave up after running tests and realised I had a low amh, 0.43. I was going to try IVF in Europe not UK though. I want to try again with own eggs just because since joining I have read some encouraging stories. I am scared anxious and really worried. I do want another baby, my ds is going to be 9 soon and always wanted a sibling. I have loads of siblings and we are quite close just want to know I tried at least. Am at work and just had to say this out ...sorry if it's a bit of a rant. I am on Ubiquinol, omega 3-6-9 and having Maca in my smoothie. Lost weight, 2kg left to normal bmi range.
Any suggestions ladies, do I need to do more. What clinic do you suggest I reach out to that has success for 42 with oe. I do apologise at my desk but really had to let it out x.


----------



## sunshine02468

Hi Everyone

Mum2m- I also take DHEA 25mg 3 xday, and Vitex(Chasteberry)  along with my Macca supplement.

Laquinn- I was told that there is a 100 Euro cancellation fee if the treatment is cancelled before egg collection.

AFM- I am leaving tomorrow night and am arriving in Vienna on 4/22 and taking a bus to Brno to the Reprofit clinic. I'm getting very excited and a little nervous too. I had a 5 day scan yesterday which is early, I know. There are 6 follicles so far. I think that is ok for my "advanced" age right??  So ladies, with these injections does that mean more follicles will develop over the next week, or is the 6 follicles the most I will have? I am hoping for a few more  

I posted this in the Reprofit thread also but and am looking for advice for anyone getting IVF abroad.
Question - So do you Ladies pay for treatment in Euros or Korunas? Is it cheaper  bc the exchange rate might be better for Korunas? Or is the price for treatment the same no matter what currency you use? I am kinda of confused regarding currency exchange for treatment. Do you London Ladies pay in Euros or Korunas?

Hope things are progressing well for everyone!
Thank you all for your advice and support. I greatly appreciate it!


----------



## Laquinn

Mum2Mum - Welcome   Because of thyroid issues I keep my supplements simple but this month I've tried extra zinc. If you can afford it, ARGC seem to be the best, I've heard people mention Zita West too. Abroad - a lot of ladies on here like Serum or one of the Czech clinics. The High FSH, low AMH thread is great if you check that out too...

Sunshine - That's great news about the cancellation fee - I guess you could have a CD3 scan and if nothing was doing then cancel? 6 follies sounds great to me for CD5... I imagine more will grow? Everything crossed for your cycle!  

AFM - 1DPO. I only got 1 big follicle this month on 10mg of Letrozole - they couldn't see my left ovary on my CD10 scan as it was hiding behind my bowel. If this cycle doesn't work my consultant is going to bump me up to 15mg of Letrozole   Has anyone else taken that big a dose before? Seems like Letrozole is giving me diminishing returns now... Fingers crossed this egg is the one! 

Hello to everyone else


----------



## Momdk

Hello

Sorry for my english - I`m from DK  

I have been lokking for a Clinic i UK to get Ivf with own eggs.

In DK its not alowed after 46 ( IM 46 nearli 47) 

Is there any Clinic in UK where its possible? 

Thanks


----------



## JasB171

Hi everyone,

Sorry I have not been on here for a few weeks. After my BFN I booked a fairly last minute holiday and just got back last night.  Thanks to all of you for your support – I really appreciate it!  

We are going to try naturally for a bit and  see how we go.  It’s possible I will change my mind and decide to give IVF another go, but I’m just not sure I can face all the injections and all the putting-life-on-hold rubbish that goes with it.  At least with trying naturally, I can still make plans to catch up with friends etc. Anyway, we’ll see.  Sometimes I feel that it’s not worth all of this hassle, particularly when I think about how life would change with a baby and I hear others’ stories of their horror children (young and old), but then I see someone with a cute kid and think, yes, I do want one.  

Laquinn – sorry to hear that you were unsuccessful this past month too. I hope things are going better for you this month!

Sunshine – good luck with your cycle at Reprofit! How many follies did you end up with?  Have you had egg collection yet? 

Highlandgirl – how’s it going with the Letrozole this month?  I guess you must be close to testing? 

Sk73 – it’s great to hear your success story just before your 44th birthday.  My AMH is really low, yet I sometimes seem to have a decent number of follicles at baseline scans.  Can’t work it out. Have you made any further decisions about where to go?  I wish you lots of success!

Welcome back Mum2M – I am just taking ubiquinol, fish oil and 75mg aspirin each day, as well as pregnacare conception.  I’m sure I could be taking more, but the list just seems endless.

Welcome Momdk – your English is great!  I asked these lovely ladies the same question a while back – I believe Lister and Create might treat people over 46 with their own eggs – might be worth giving them a call? 

Good luck to everyone else!
x


----------



## miamiamo

Momdk - welcome and good luck on yr journey x


----------



## sunshine02468

Hi everyone, just a quick update. I arrived at Reprofit on 4/22. I have had my scans done, completed my pre-op medical exam.  So far there are six follicles. Three very nice sized ones and three small ones which I hope have caught up. Egg think retrieval is this morning 4/28. So keep your fingers crossed for me. 
Hope everyone is doing well.


----------



## LuckyE

hey hope everyone's well. 

Keep going.


----------



## Laquinn

Momdk - Welcome   I've heard Create are supposed to be good for us older ladies.

JasB - Hope you had a great holiday. Au naturale sounds like a good plan - seems to be the way a lot of older ladies concieve the most. Know what you mean about wondering whether it's for you at all - a life of travelling and eating out in nice restaurants sounds quite appealing sometimes in comparison to dirty nappies and tantrums!  

Sunshine - Good luck for your egg retrieval   How's your Reprofit experience been so far?

LuckyE - Thanks!  

AFM - 9DPO and testing tomorrow. Had a nightmare week with mouth ulcers which stopped me eating and speaking   I think I have a problem with candida and the extra estrogen I'm taking is making it worse so I really need to be strict with my diet  

Hello to everyone else!


----------



## Mrs. Munchkin

Sunshine best of luck xxx


----------



## Syd72

Hi everyone, sorry for the long radio silence, hello to all the new ladies.  Lovely to see this thread active.

I've slightly been avoiding updating until I have definite news but thought I'd pop in now to update.  I'm 10 weeks today from my latest de cycle, everything was looking good at the 8 week scan, I was measuring slightly ahead as opposed to the 6 week scan when I was measuring a few days behind.  I've spotted pretty much constantly up until 8 weeks and a bit on and off since then but used to it now.  Nipt test and next scan next week when I'll be 11+1, terrified it will all have gone wrong since my last scan and wondering if that feeling ever goes away...

Good luck to everyone currently cycling / trying naturally / about to test.  I do keep an eye on the thread and am rooting for you all even though I don't comment much anymore since I've given up on own eggs.

x


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Syd! That's fantastic news   Everything crossed for your upcoming test and scan    

Another bfn for me on my 4th superovulation cycle. Planning a hysteroscopy this cycle, another couple of superovulation cycles then moving on to DE too...

x


----------



## Sunflowerseeds

Syd - congratulations. Fingers and toes crossed for everything to continue in the right direction. 

Jas - sorry to hear your treatment didn’t work out. Hope trying naturally is more productive. 

Laquinn - also sorry to hear about your BFN. Ideally it’s good to crack on with ttc but I’ve previously been advised by clinics that sometimes a break for a month of meds could help to kick start your ovaries. Also some months it take a little longer for ovaries and our bodies to recover could show/produce a few follicles. Just another thing to add to our journeys. 

Welcome to new comers.

Good luck to everyone on your journeys. 

Take care x


----------



## sunshine02468

Hello everyone. 

Syd Congrats! Such great news. I'll be thinking of you and hoping thing continue to progress well. 

Laquinn hope super ovulation goes well for you. What does superovulation include. How high is the med dose?.
Retrofit has been great. Clinic is modern and clean everyone is nice and professional. Brno is a lovely city and DH and I traveled to Prague and Vienna which are beautiful. 

AFM on Sat They were able to collect only one egg out of the 3 follicles. Dr was going to do egg transfer in 5 days. But someone suggested I ask Dr to do the transfer on day 3 since I only have one egg. And the Dr agreed. So I am going to have the fresh transfer tomorrow morning. So excited. But I'm also worried that embryo makes it to the transfer. Please send positive thoughts my way please!!!

Wishing everyone good luck w their cycles


----------



## Laquinn

Sunflowerseeds - Thanks   I've been following a superovulation thread from 2013(!) and yes, some of those ladies seemed to conceive naturally a month or two after stopping the meds, so we'll definitely give it a shot naturally before moving on to DE IVF. 

sunshine - I started off on 7.5mg of Letrozole for the first cycle moving up to 10mg the past two and for my next cycle (4th) I'll be taking 15mg. Past couple of cycles I've taken Progynova for lining and Cyclogest in the luteal phase. I get scanned around CD9 and trigger with Otrivelle when the consultant advises. Sending lots of positive thoughts your way for your embie    

Hello to everyone else


----------



## Mum2M

Thanks Sunshine, Jas and Laquinn

I am researching ARGC but so far it seems like I have to move to London to keep up with the testing😊. It makes sense though but wow they do take up loads of time. I live in Kent and it's quite a trek. I wanted to start asap but I have only 7 days of annual leave left. Gonna look into Czech clinic. Which one where you referring to. May be worth taking a look a bit further out.

Thanks again all ladies😙. Don't know how one could possibly navigate through this without FF


----------



## Sk73

JasB- thanks!. I think I've decided to go with Embryolab in Greece. Hopefully we will be able to combine a holiday with the treatment!


----------



## Laquinn

Mum2M - AGRC is supposed to be one of the best I think? All the testing may be necessary to give you a better chance; the more testing they do the more they can tailor your protocol to suit you as an individual. I was referring to Reprofit so you could read through the current cyclers thread on FF and post questions for the ladies who've had treatment there... Sunshine is being treated there at the moment.


----------



## Mum2M

Thanks Laquinn, will go browsing thru reprofit😊


----------



## sunshine02468

Hi ladies,
yes Mum2m  I just completed my IVF in Reprofit. It was a good experience/visit.  I chose it because of a lot of good things I read. This clinic also allowed me to do IVF with my own eggs despite my advanced age. Lol. Also compared to some other clinics I did not have to spend more than 7 to 10 days here for the IVF procedure. I needed to get back home to work so ASAP. So I flew out from my day nine scan and a day 11 scan. Egg retrieval was day 14, and then a fresh transfer on day three.  I waited till last minute booking flights.  Was not sure of the outcome to book a ticket home. Buying one today for tomorrow as it is the best price I can find. Waiting last minute for plane tickets definitely is expensive. But I actually got a good deal for tomorrow to return to the US. 

My egg embryo transfer yesterday was successful. I was told that my day 3 embryo was only five cells but should be eight cells.  so that made it a grade 2. Is that good or bad? Dr did not seem very hopeful. Told me she wasn’t sure how it will go bc my eggs are old and my embryo is slow. Have any of you had any success with a grade 2 embryo? And now the tww begins!

Thank you Ladies for all the support and cheers!!
Good luck with your cycles Ladies!!


----------



## Mum2M

Wishing you the very best sunshine. It is indeed you time to shine😉. Finger and toes crossed for you...this journey can be rough but the reward is mind blowing!


----------



## Laquinn

Sunshine - Congrats on being PUPO!   Sending lots of positive vibes


----------



## Sk73

Good luck Sunshine, I really hope it works for you


----------



## sunshine02468

Flying home today. I’m ready to go home. Hope all is well for you ladies!


----------



## bp3137

Hi ladies, found this thread and spent the last few days reading over everything. Such a great idea highlandgirl to start it .... I just had my cycle cancelled due to a large cyst. The clinic seem to think it’s paraovarian and nothing to worry about. The sonographer is not sure. I’m just wondering if anyone else has had a cycle cancelled due to cysts and what their following cycles were like. It’s OE with Serum, I’m 44 🙂


----------



## miamiamo

sunshine02468 - good luck xx


----------



## Laquinn

bp3137 - I've never done IVF but when I did ovulation induction cycles earlier this year I had a cycle with a leftover cyst which messed up subsequent cycles - it made my lining really thin and no follicles grew on the ovary the cyst was on. I think it might have been because I was too late to trigger that cycle and the follicle didn't rupture properly and started collapsing in on itself next cycle.


----------



## sunshine02468

Hi Ladies 
It's been quiet on this thread. I just popped in to see how everyone is doing??  I had a BFN in May after OE IVF at Reprofit in Czech Republic. I'm trying to decide whether to go back in the fall to Reprofit for another OE IVF?  To try another clinic? Or to move on to DE which I am still struggling with.  It seems that DE is  the only realistic option at my age. Is it crazy of me to still want to try with my own eggs? I will be turning 46yo in 3 weeks.    I have read some ladies mention Serum in Greece? Have any ladies in their mid 40's had any success with OE IVF there? Hope all you ladies are doing well. Sending you all sticky baby dust and hoping for some success stories out there!!!


----------



## Laquinn

sunshine - So sorry to hear about your BFN   I was looking at doing a kombi cycle at Prague Fertility Centre (OE & DE) but the co-ordinator told it to me straight; you have more chance of getting pregnant naturally at this age with OE than through IVF. She told me that the quality of eggs at this age just isn't good enough. But a lady on this thread managed it through ovulation induction with Letrozole so that might be a less intrusive more cost effective way of giving OE a chance? I tried it earlier this year but after 4 cycles I got so fed up with the BFNs and taking all the meds I've decided to move on to DE and I'm actually pretty excited about it now. I know it's still a 50/50 chance so not guaranteed but 50% compared to 1% with OE makes me feel a bit more optimistic.

Hope everyone else is doing well


----------



## miamiamo

@sunshine02468-  I am sorry for your BFN. Have you considered combining IVF OE with PGS NGS or PGD? From what I have read docs recommend it in case of ladies of advanced amternal age who want to have IVF OE.


----------



## sunshine02468

Hi Ladies
Laquinn which clinic did you try your superovulation at?  I will probably give it one more go with my OE in the fall  before I feel I can move on to DE. Leaning toward Serum. 

Miamiamo I wanted to do the PGS testing but I only ended up with 1 embryo and they felt it would be a better chance to do a fresh transfer than to test it first.  I was put off by Serum at first bc they do not offer PGS testing, but in the end I didn't  need it if I don't have many eggs. So the PGS testing is not as important for me as it initially was. If I produce more eggs next time I will still consider it.

Hope everyone is doing well! Good luck to all with your cycles.


----------



## Laquinn

sunshine - I did ovulation induction with my reproductive endochronologist but highlandgirl did them with an online consultant and had scans and tests with a local clinic - if you read back through her posts on this thread I think she mentions the name a few times. 

Maybe check out the low AMH high FSH thread - those ladies seem to know a lot about different protocols. What about Create? They seem to have had success with a few older ladies...


----------



## Laquinn

Hello everyone!

This thread has gone to sleep a bit but I thought I'd check in to say that I actually managed to get a natural bfp last month but sadly miscarried at 5wks 3 days. DH and I were booked in for de IVF but have decided to try naturally for another couple of months to see if that golden egg pops out!  

Hope you are all well?   X


----------



## miamiamo

Laquinn - oh no, I am so sorry. I keep my fingers and toes crossed


----------



## Laquinn

Thanks miamiamo


----------



## Mochashosh

Hello everyone 

I wanted to pop on and join in, if I may.

I'm 45 and this is my 3rd IVF cycle (going for egg collection tomorrow).  First cycle was BFN, but on the second I achieved a pregnancy but miscarried early.

I made the mistake of looking at the Lister's online pregnancy calculator yesterday.  They have had NO successes with women like me, so I'm feeling very despondent.  I need to believe that this will happen for me, because time is running out so fast, and if this doesn't happen for me I literally don't know what I will do as I have nothing else to live for.

Can anyone offer me any words of wisdom (or just positive thoughts)?  Similarly, if I can help anyone else, please ask.

xx


----------



## Flyby

Around the time I was successful at 44, I had looked at success rates in different clinics and of course saw no successes for my age. I don’t understand this, as of course pregnancy is achievable in your forties, it probably just takes longer and I would think that many less people are going to the clinics at this age so the statistics aren’t that telling? I think if the same amount of people in their mid forties were trying as people in their twenties and thirties you’d probably see different results! Ignore them, plenty of people do get pregnant at this age, but due to the smaller scale of people trying, it’s not really possible to see how likely it will be to work? It may be a longer more expensive journey though. Good luck! F x


----------



## miamiamo

Mochashosh - Actress Suzanne Orlandi was the first woman to wear the little black dress, and you will be the first one to get pregnant when a calculator shows no success rates  Keep my fingers and toes crossed. xx


----------



## Mochashosh

Thank you, ladies. 

Had a grade 1, 8-cell embryo transferred this morning at Day 3.  I got pregnant with one of those before.  It's just a question of staying pregnant.  I will be praying, hoping and being kind to myself.  

Take really good care of yourselves, everyone, and lots of love to you all.

xxx


----------



## Laquinn

Good luck Mochashosh!

xxx


----------



## miamiamo

Mochashosh - wish you the very best of luck xx


----------



## sunshine02468

Hi Ladies
Mochashosh I'm keeping you in my thoughts and saying a prayer for you. Any news yet? Flyby made a good point there aren't as many women trying in their 40s to stats are going to be lower. All we can do is keep trying and stay hopeful. Good luck!!

AFM- I was so happy to get a BFP this month after trying naturally. Unfortunately it was a chemical pregnany and I miscarried last week at 5w5d.  So sad now. But still planning to try OE IVF in Serum in Sept.

Hope everyone is doing well. Good luck to everyone cycling soon!!


----------



## Laquinn

Hi Sunshine - So sorry to hear about your miscarraige   Same happened to me last month. I'm trying naturally for another few months then going for DE. All the best for Serum  

Hello to eoe!


----------



## Mochashosh

Hello ladies

BFN this morning.  I'll test again on Tuesday just in case, but I think I already knew.

Really devastated and don't feel I can go on any more.


----------



## Laquinn

Mochashosh - So sorry to hear this   I hope you can find some light somwhere; it sounds like you have a wonderfully full life and talents and experiences which many don't have. Would you consider donor egg, donor embryo or adoption? A lot of people can have a baby but it's what happens after that really counts and makes you a parent. Please be kind to yourself - big glass of wine and lots of spoiling! Take care xxx


----------



## Mochashosh

Thanks for the hug, Laquinn.

The thought of a donor makes me sick.  I know lots of people use donors and totally feel it's their baby, indeed I have friends who've done this, but I don't feel like that, and it's no good pretending.  As for adoption, I've seen what adoptive parents go through (I'm a teacher amongst other things, so I get to see it all) and there's no way I could cope with all that for another person's child.  I've spent a lifetime settling for caring for other people's children, and it hasn't ever been enough.  I might sound very selfish, but it's best to be honest about the way you feel, don't you think?

Take care of yourself, and I'm sending you lots of positive vibes for a BFP.

xxx


----------



## sunshine02468

Mochashosh
I'm so sorry that you got a BFN. Take some time to heal and get some rest.  I feel  similar to you. I don't know if I can get to a place to do donor eggs which is why I am still trying OE at my age.  It is not selfish to feel that way, it is how you feel. I doesn't feel fair that those of us that give and take care of others don't get a chance to have our own child. But we have hope until its time for us to decide when to accept another option that is right for each of us.  Give yourself time to grieve as it is not easy to make any decisions during this time.  Just know that  the ladies on this site are sending you lots of love and strength to get throught this difficult time.  Take care of yourself. Hugs and kisses!!


----------



## Laquinn

Thanks Mochachosh. You have to be true to yourself - don't feel guilty about it. Have you thought about next moves? xxx


----------



## miamiamo

Mochashosh - I am really sorry.  Wish you all luck in the world with any decision of yours


----------



## Anna20162016

Hi LAdies 
Just checking in to see how everyone is doing and seeing if there's been any success here at all?
Since my last failed ICSI in Feb this year,  I've been on TSI with Menopur now 450 and only have 2 follicles .
I get monitored by a fertility gyne with scans every month and then take my trigger shot.  I'm also on buserlin and leve to lower FSH and about 14 other vits etc a day.
Thinking of going another round next month in Reprofit if I can even get more than one follicle. 
Another thing that came up is my DH had a bad DNA frag,  I am so angry that wasn't tested before even though his seman analysis came back normal before. It scares me that all these clinics do IVF/ICSI without doing a DNA on the day of IVF/ICSI. the next clinic if I go I will insist on havng an DNA frag that day with a clinic that has it's own major inhouse lab.

Eveyone ( meds) is telling me to move to DE and I just can't make that break.  I mentioned it to my mother and she's like I wouldnt bother you see the trouble your sister had wtih their kids and that's from their own genes.  I can't shake the feeling that I just won' tknow what I'm getting with DE.  On another note I'd love a baby just like my DH. 
It's very hard, DE just horrifies me still.  


How's everyone else doing? are you all trying naturally or with a little stim help?
x


----------



## miamiamo

Hi Anna20162016, you will meet lots of amazing ladies over here who underwent IVF DE, and never regret their decisions. From what I have read IVF clinics check their egg donors really thoroughly.


----------



## sunshine02468

HI Everyone
Anna I am struggling with the idea of donor eggs too,  I started  IVF later in life and am going to give my OEs 2 more tries. But am starting to think about donor eggs. It's a hard thing to accept. But I don't want to regret it later either... Still thinking about it. I am going to Serum around 10/24 for OE IVF. Is anyone else cycling soon with their own eggs?? Starting to get excited and nervous at the same time.  Hope everyone is going well. Good luck with your cycles!


----------



## Efi78

Hi ladies

Something to cheer you up. Life is so unpredictable


----------



## sunshine02468

Wow what a great success story. It gives me hope!! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## highlandgirl

Hello Ladies,

I am so sorry for my very long hiatus! I have had a lot going on both in our business and personally not least our poor dog having a cancer lump removed and undergoing radiotherapy with a 7 hour round trip drive 
She is on the mend so I decided to step up the TTC again!
Lost 1.5 stone in 6 weeks on Cambridge diet as really need to shift some weight... 
If anyone is still reading this please kick us off by giving an intro and where you are at??
I am CD 4 taking 5mg of Letrozole day 2 - 6 and an ovitrelle trigger if and when I get any follicles big enough. Had a scan on day 2 and had 1 follicle and a 4mm lining so just waiting for my second scan on Thursday day 9 
Whats everyone else's status?
xx


----------



## Mochashosh

Hi everyone

I've been off the radar for a while.  Very depressed, to be honest, and considered giving up.  On everything.  For about a week I just lay in bed and wept.  It hasn't really got better since; a couple of weeks ago I cried in front of my class, which is an all-time low.  They were very sweet and kind about it, but it's really not professional to do that to 12 year olds however well you know them.  At least I didn't get fired for it.

But we're having one more go with a new clinic.  To be honest, it's been a total fiasco so far.  Lovely consultant but everything else has been awful, and we've not even started the cycle yet.  I don't quite know what to do.  I never thought I'd consider going back to my old consultant, especially after he never made contact after my last BFN, but even though there were a lot of problems with him, at least I trusted his staff, and the nurses were really lovely, and I felt they (the nurses and support staff, not the consultant) gave a monkey's what happened to me.  At this clinic I feel like there are too many fingers in the pie, it's not a specialist IVF unit, and nobody is really invested in the outcome except us.  But on the plus side we get a new protocol (on the minus side it's 3 injections a day, and I'm needle phobic, which nobody seems to give a damn about.  At least at my last clinic they would say 'normally we would do a blood test, but we know how hard you find those, so don't worry, we'll just go on what we've already got').

So, I simply don't know what to do.  My husband thinks we should give it a go, but this is potentially our last chance, so I don't want to make a mess of it.  I had very little faith in either IVF specifically or the medical profession in general to start with and now my trust has been eroded altogether.  I haven't gone into details because I don't want to bore anyone, but the bottom line is that the consultant seems excellent, but everything around him seems like a disaster zone.

This stuff really messes with your head, doesn't it?

Hope everyone else is well.  Let's do this!

xx


----------



## Efi78

Hi Mohashshosh

I didn’t want to read and run.

I ve been there and my advice to you would be not to continue with the current clinic. IVF is an emotional rollercoaster and very hard. If we dread every time we go to the clinic then it means they are not the right people for us. 

Correct me If I m wrong, I think I rememebr you at the Lister thread. Was this your last clinic? I am with the Lister and the nurses are wonderful. My doctor is Dr Nicopoullos. Very good person. I have also worked with Dr Wren who I highly recommend. She is top and brutally honest. 

I understand that you liked the previous clinic. Why not ask for a different doctor? You are the client, you pay loads of money, you ask you get


----------



## Mochashosh

Hi Efi and thank you so much for getting back to me.

It's all a bit complicated. because I have surgery at the Lister, and even though my current consultant has nothing to do with them, he recommended I stay there for surgery because my husband's sperm are there (we have to use frozen because my husband has a blockage and can't produce a live sample).  But this means that I'm not dealing with the fertility clinic where the consultant works for the medical side - instead I'm dealing with his general gynaecology unit, which is not really set up for IVF, and then I go to the Lister for the surgical bits.  The implications of this are, for example, that the clinic doesn't have an in-house pharmacy so I have to rely on a courier to bring me my drugs.  Needless to say the courier hasn't contacted me, and I haven't been given their details - even their name - so I can't contact them.  I'll bet they've gone away for the weekend, but my period doesn't know it's the weekend and could come any time!

I wouldn't consider switching to the Lister for the whole thing because 1) it's a bit of a way from where I live - an hour on the bus each way, so it would be impossible to maintain any semblance of normality 2) it's a production line; there is no continuity of care, the place is crammed to the rafters, and I've heard you can wait up to 3 hours for a scan.  I've met Dr Nicopoulis and I agree he's great.  In fact, my consultant's going to see if I could maybe have him for surgery.  I don't think I would suit Dr Wren.  The 'tough love' approach really doesn't work with me!

My former clinic was a satellite of the Lister, but there was only one doctor; you didn't have a choice.  If I went back there it would just be the same protocol over again, and the feeling that he was just going through the motions because he didn't really expect any success.  So you can see why I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Sorry to moan but I have nobody else to talk to about this who would understand.  

By the way, anyone else used Menopur?  It's my first time and we're combining it with Gonal.  I'm sure it's fine, but I'm just a bit freaked out at the idea of injecting myself with reconstituted wee!

Stay well everyone.

xx


----------



## Efi78

Hi mochashosh

That’s why we are here for. To confine to each other

I have used Menopur. It is supposed to produce better quaöity eggs. I have also used Gonal-F at forst IVF. I had more or less the same response to both of them.


----------



## Mochashosh

Hi Effi

I've never yet had a bad reaction to any drugs (apart from a bit of depression with Synaril 2nd time round), and have always produced good numbers of folicles, so I'm hoping the same will be the case this time.  It's a completely different sequence; stimming on Day 2 and then using the 'anti-ovulation' drug several days later.  It'll all take a bit of getting used to assuming I decide to do it.  We moved clinics in order to try a new protocol, but it's rather daunting, especially when I'm losing confidence in the clinic.

Incidentally, has anyone had a doctor, as opposed to a nurse, do their scans?  That's what they do at this new clinic, and for some reason I don't really like the idea.  Maybe because previously my nurse was a woman and she'd been through IVF herself, so she knew how it feels.  Also, that was the main thing she did all day, so she was much better at it than the doctors.  There are no female doctors at my new clinic.  Scans are really painful for me - I'm sure they're not nice for anyone, actually, so I want someone who knows what they're doing.

Or maybe I'm just being too fussy?  The underpinning attitude seems to be that we should be grateful that medical science is willing to help us at all, and should gladly accept whatever hand we are dealt.  Does anyone else experience this?


----------



## sunshine02468

Hi Ladies! Hope everyone is doing well. I arrived it Serum on Wednesday. I had my 5day scan and they only found two follicles. They started me on a Menopur 150 mL since day five and today started Cetrotide. This is my first time taking Menopur. I was on gonal f the last time. I have another appointment for a scan on Monday and will find out when egg retrevai will be. Good luck to everyone else who is cycling now!


----------



## Mochashosh

Hi Sunshine

We'll both be Menopur newbies, then, if I go along with this protocol.  Very best of luck with it; I'm sure it will be fine and you will sail through.  Keep us posted for some good news for you very soon.

xxx


----------



## TBW342

Hi, hope I'm okay to join this, I'm not quite 45 but will be soon and have been following these threads for a while.

I have just got a bfn after an ICSI cycle...devastated. I had 4 eggs retrieved out of six follicles ( one was quite small though) and only 2 mature. Both however fertilised and by day 3 one was very good and one a bit slower. My clinic recommend going to five days so  we followed their advice. On day 5 the better one wasn't quite a blastocyst but was progressing and was a compacted morula. The other was also starting to progress so they wanted to watch that one for anonther day and transfer the better one. I thought this one might be quite good quality ( I think it was 3 in terms of symmetry and 4 for fragmentation (4 being the highest at my clinic). I know my age is against me but can't help wonder why this one didn't implant. On my first try I had three follicles but at egg collection they didn't retrieve any eggs ( I feel this was due to the trigger). They grew quite differently in terms of size and so this cycle was much better. I want to try again and my DH is okay with this but I think he feels it is a waste of time and money really though is happy to give it another shot. 

My question is is it worth trying again, my doctor who is really great believes the best chance I have is with donor eggs though I am not sure I am willing to give up on my OE yet. The fact I responded much better 2nd time gives me a little hope but terrified I wouldn't make it to transfer again. Amy advice much appreciated. I think you're all amazing for going through this for so long and wish you lots of luck 
xx


----------



## Mochashosh

Hello TBW

I don't think anyone can really tell you what to do; this journey is so dependent on how the individual feels.  We can all quote stats to you, but ultimately it's what's in your own head and heart that matters.  I'm not aware of any stats about whether not getting to implantation stage on one cycle makes it more likely that the same thing will happen again.  I think probably there's no evidence, and therefore no reason to believe you would have the same experience again.

Statistically your doctor is right; we have a much better chance with DE.  But if you don't want them, you don't want them, and that's all there is to it.  However, do read some of the threads on this forum about ladies who've used DE, had fabulous babies and couldn't be happier.  I'm not saying this is for you; it's definitely not for me, but I am saying that looking at different perspectives can help you to make an informed decision when the time is right for you.

Also, remember that men are wired differently from us.  Even the best of them is unlikely to understand how we ladies feel about motherhood.  So don't be too phased if DH doesn't get it.  As long as he's happy for you to do it and willing to support you, that's just fine.

I think that one of the most important things is that we feel that we've done everything we can and left no stone unturned, so that whatever the final outcome, we can eventually be at peace with it, and not agonize about 'What if I'd had one more go/tried a different protocol'.  

I wish you the very best with whatever you decide, and especially wish you, and everyone here, a beautiful, healthy baby.
xx


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## sunshine02468

Hi Ladies
Hope everyone is doing well!
Just wanted to give a late update on my recent trip to Serum. It  resulted in only 3 follicles, 2 eggs, 1 fertilized excellent grade1 embryo, 8cell. I had a 3 day transfer.  My OTD is tomorrow 11/16.  I usually never test early but have been testing the past few days and have all been neg, even today  just 1 day before. So I am preparing myself for a BFN tomorrow too, even though I am praying  for a BFP. 

TBW I have been struggling  with accepting and moving on to donor eggs. I started this IVF journey  just 1.5yrs ago.  So Like Mochashosh stated I need to know that I have tried as much as I could  with my onw eggs before I can move on.  My hsb is not as invested in this as I am, mostly I thing bc he already has a son. I do not have any children yet. DH is not for  donor eggs but stated he will support me if that's what I eventually want to do. So I will take that, even though I wish he was more invested in this journey with me. The other issue is finances. I would love to continue to try OE  but realisticly I can not afford to, so maybe one more try with my own eggs for me.

Wishing everyone here good luck with your cycles!!


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## miamiamo

sunshine02468 - I wish you all the best and hope you will get a positive result
TBW342 -  I am so sorry, and wish you all luck in the world with any decision


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## lechatgris

Has anyone here tried the cytoplasmic egg injection thing, where they inject the mitochondria of a young donor into older eggs to "rejuvenate" them? I saw that this was offered in Cyprus on a tandem cycle with donor eggs, but I am not sure if I would just be wasting my money on a snake oil treatment. Does anyone know someone over 45 for whom this has actually worked? They boasted in articles about having succeeded in getting women in "menopause" pregnant with own eggs this way, but when I checked the story, it turned out these were women who were under 40 and still had eggs, but were not getting periods, and being able to retrieve eggs from follicles in order to inject them with mitochondria by definition means they aren't really in menopause but have something else going on. So I am fishing around for stories of anyone who has legitimately had their older eggs "restored" through this method. Is it just selling hype or is it legit? I am 46, still get a regular period, and tried IVF with my own eggs in January, but the embryos failed to mature.
https://www.lowcostivf.net/latest-news-from-north-cyprus-ivf-center/cytoplasmic-tandem-cycle-your-ivf-chances-just-increased


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## Anna20162016

TBW
I'm in the same boat really,  I've had a lot of failed ICSI/IVFs and have been told to move to DE.  I have also been told it's a numbers game and luck to get that one good egg at our age. So if you're prepared financially and emotionally to give it more goes do it. 
Since my last failed ICSI in Feb 2018 I've been doing TSI with Letrozole tablet ( to lower FSH day 2 - 6) Elonva on day 2 then menopur on day 8 at 450 MG.  then scan/trigger date and instead of collection and ICSI we do TSI ourselves.
First this is much cheaper if you get care under a good fertility gyne , I pay for the scan/consult and meds each month.    I may get more ICSIs done in Jan 2019 I have a clinic lined up overseas to do the collection etc and work with my consultant on it.  I feel I have to do this as I  cannot accept DE yet and feel I have to have tried everything possible to give my body a chance to have my own baby. I would also suggest you get your seman analysis repeated, I got my DH done and the second one showed and issue with DNA Frag confirming that.  Only for I thought of this it would never have been suggested to do it again and it's improved by exercises diet and a load of anti-ox.

if your DH is supportive that's great, mine is up to a certain point and he has no interest in DE, he sees it as someone else's child not ours.  I am trying to work throught the thoughts of DE but's it's very hard to do that.  

Mochashosh
Can I ask how you made the definite decision not to go to DE?  I'm struggling between both. So hard. 
I also agree nurses do better scans, my gyne does mine, he's great as I get a mini consult each time but the nurses read the scans and measurements better

Lechatgris,  I have heard of this but not seem anyone who went through it, seems really interesting.

Wirh Menopur they say this is the best to use more natural.    I've had a bad reaction to a few drugs, the sniffer synergal drove me insane as well as fematab,

It's good to have a group at our age to share etc.  I'm 44 and a few months.

best of luck to all cycling...


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## miamiamo

lechatgris - I am not sure whether it is the same procedure you are asking about, but I have read about ovarian mesotherapy on Inv*cta blog, as it seems they offer it. Their stats (August'1 is the following: 70 procedures, AMH increased by 30%, 3 natural pregnancy, and a few via IVF. Unfortunately they wrote nothing about the age of women. Hope this helps.


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## Mochashosh

Hello everyone

Lechatgris - I asked my consultant about the '3 parent baby' today.  Apparently it's used for women who have mitochondrial disease and therefore could never have a healthy baby.  However, it doesn't really affect the quality of the egg apart from if there's a known mitochondrial disease, so it's currently not thought to improve the outcomes in older women. 

Anna - I just don't believe I could love a baby that wasn't genetically mine.  I know other women think differently, and I have a friend who has DE twins who thinks I'm insane, but this is a very personal thing and everyone feels different.

Does anyone know how Sunshine got on?

AFM: Saw the consultant today after recently having had a BFN with OE from a Grade 1 blastocyst.  His opinion is that I should not try another cycle because the outcome will very likely be the same, and the long-term impact of doing lots of cycles in quick succession is not known.  This has been my 4th round.  I achieved a pregnancy on the 2nd round, but miscarried.  We talked about DE, but I don't really feel any differently.  I feel I might be tempted to go for them out of desperation and a desire to 'keep fighting' rather than because it would be in the child's best interests.  It's so hard to give up, though.  I really don't know what I'm for, other than motherhood.


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## bombsh3ll

Mochashosh,

What matters is how you feel. YOU. I was totally the opposite, leaped at DE at 31 for non egg/age related reasons and loved the result, but everyone is different and it wouldn't be responsible to bring a child into the world that you aren't sure you could love. 

There is however one option, I am not sure if you are aware but women were doing it out in Cyprus when I was there for my first OE cycle. It is called a Tandem cycle. You stim, the donor stims, both sets of eggs are fertilised and a combination of OE and DE embryos are transferred. 

For me, avoiding stimms was the point, and I saw it like having a dog and barking yourself, but for the women who chose it, they really valued it. If it worked, they need never know which embryo/s took. Some people couldn't deal with that mentally, might end up taking some kind of DNA test when the child was born, but for those who just wanted to keep the possibility that it was their egg the child came from, it was another option. 

Best wishes,

B x


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## Mochashosh

Hi Bombshell

I've heard of tandem cycles, and that's a possibility, but you're right; I'd love to have avoided more drugs if possible.  As my consultant said, we don't know the safety of injecting large doses of hormones over time.  He reckoned that most people don't do it more than 2 or 3 times, so the impact of doing more than that isn't clear.  I'm not too sure if that's true, because I see lots of women on here who do multiple cycles.  

In my case there are also religious/legal questions which are problematic, and which I would need to be absolutely clear about before going ahead.  For these reasons I don't think Cyprus is an option.  Does anyone know of any other countries that offer tandem cycling, e.g. the USA?

This is so hard.  I'm not able to give up on being a mother, but I can see the arguments against doing another cycle. I guess I'm looking for a miracle answer that doesn't exist.


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## Bohemian Rhapsody

Hi Everyone

I'm so glad I found Fertility Friends. I think my husband is weary of my obsessive behaviour around fertility and my ceaseless research and quoting of statistics   


I turn 44 next week and am about to start my first ICSI (OE) in either ARGC or Zita West. I have made an appointment at both clinics to make a choice between them. Initially Zita West said they would not treat me with OE due to my age, but they have said they will review my AFC and AMH and then decide. 


Before meeting my husband I froze a few eggs at Lister (age 3 - in short, they failed to diagnose my PCOS, overstimulated me, then cut off the drugs a week before egg collection and collected 4 eggs instead of the 15 they had anticipated based on earlier scans. They then under stimulated me on the next cycle and abandoned that after all the drugs as no eggs had grown. Nevertheless I stored those first 4 eggs thinking I might need them if I never met someone to have kids with. I 

My husband and I got together when I was 41. I conceived naturally in Jan 2015, but the pregnancy was termination at 13 weeks for T18. Awful awful experience. We then tried in earnest and I had a CP in Sept 2016. 2 weeks before planned IVF at ARGC I conceived naturally and had our son in Nov 2017 (at age nearly 43).

We just tried to use my frozen eggs at a new clinic - Fertility Plus (a satellite of London Women's Clinic) - and none of the eggs survived the thaw. My husband who is a scientist is convinced either the freezing or the thawing wasn't done properly. I was gutted but am less interested in attributing blame and more keen to focus on our upcoming fresh ICSI cycle.

Is anyone here cycling at ARGC or Zita West in January? Does anyone recommend one over the other? I'm also seeing an acupuncturist weekly (and have been for 3 years). She strongly recommended Melanie Brown for nutrition advice. Although I've had a "fertility friendly' diet for some years, I'm going to see Melanie anyway and pay her eye-watering consulting fees. I just want to feel I've tried everything. I should point out I spent my 20s and half of my 30s drinking too much and smoking!

Based on advice from consultants and my acupuncturist, I also take ubiquinol, R Lipoic Acid, 5mg Folic Acid, an all round pre natal (Fertility Smart), Vitamin D spray (Better You) and fish oil (Lion Heart). I am about to supplement this with 75g of DHEA. 

I'd love to hear from any of you about your experiences, past and present!


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## highlandgirl

Hello - Is there anybody out there! 

Just looking to see if anyone is still here?
I cant believe its been a year today since my one and only natural pregnancy which ended in miscarriage  
So here I am still trying and got my smiley peak on my Clearblue today so off we go again!
Still trying naturally and hoping for a real miracle at 48.5 xx

I still cant believe the activity since I started this thread and I am sending hope and prayers to all the ladies who have posted here past and present  

So lets hear the chat - where are we all at on our journeys??


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## Guest

Not sure if I replied on this thread but am nearly 44 and going to do 3 more rounds of natural modified ivf, after 5 failed transfers I must be mad but I start in April just on my 44th birthday so fingers crossed. Keep me posted on your trying I would love to hear some positive stories over 44. It is so hard and donor egg to me is just so complicated with so many doubts and questions not sure if we can do it.


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## Flyby

Amandacatherine, it worked for me after the fifth IVF at age 44. If you look at my posts it might be helpful?

Good luck, it can happen!

Flyby x


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## Guest

Thanks for that gives me hope. I am same as you in that I get better results with low drugs, with these 3 back to back cycles it will be no drugs till day 6 then bemfola 150 till lead focille reaches 16 then out. Got 4 eggs last time and 2 embryos to blast but unfortunately BFN. Hopefully with banking cycle and a few more eggs can get that golden one, last chance salon, fingers crossed it works.


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## Flyby

Sounds like a good plan! (I don’t think they let mine go past 16mm either, better to get them out quicker when older)


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## rainbows44

I have had a birthday now -- so I now fit your profile of over 45 and trying with own eggs

I'm getting blastocysts off eggs each time (tried 2 x and I have follicles presenting now for round 3) 

so therefore where there is blastocysts there is hope

the trick is getting the blastocysts to stick - that's the hard part.

there's a lot they don't really know about how to get the endometrium to accept the blastocyst and for them to stick together right in the crucial one-day window of implantation

that's the hurdle


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## jennyH1

Hi guys,

I'm new to this forum..had started my own thread but there seems to be heaps of people on this. Hope it's ok to join in.

I'm 46..have had 2 ivf cycles with OE. Both times got to blastocyst but never a BFP sadly.

Myself and my hubby are giving this one last shot. I can't help feeling sad about our chances and a bit like I'm wasting our money when we could be using it for DE.

Anyone else feel the same or anyone out there have success with ivf and OE at 46

Pleeeeeeeeeeease


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## miamiamo

jennyH1- I am not in the same position, just wanted to wish you the very best on the next part of your fertility journey


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## Guest

Jenny, I am turning 44 in April and going for my last 3 banking OE ivf with natural modified. After 5 failed transfers I don’t hold out much hope. I think it comes down to a numbers game. So if you are still producing eggs each time and getting to day 5, then maybe. But if you are not then maybe it is time to move on. I will be after this go to either DE if I can get my head round the concept as I have so many doubts or leaving this crazy baby making arena. I wish the whole DE thing was more straight forward and not have all the ramifications for the child, because that is my main concern. Then my sister said something like the child will have a great life it is you who has to give up something wouldn’t be worried about them,they are the lucky ones. Anyway I will be on the threads on here so we can all keep up with each other and help each other to make the hard decisions.


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## jennyH1

miamiamo - thanks for the well wishes x

CathA - Oh my God my heart breaks for you. It's such a hard road to be on when your nearing the end of your journey with OE isn't it. I think it's impossible for any woman to fully understand unless your faced with that possibility. I started a thread here called..."Don't know when to stop with my OE..emotional". The responses have been really helpful for me and it's been great to hear positive stories of DE. You should check it out if you feel up to it or are ready.

Don't loose hope with your OE though Cath. It's great that you still have some chance and honestly miracles can happen. Never loose hope. I know after 5 failed transfers that's hard but you just never know!!! I agree it's a numbers game but 6 may be your lucky number. I really hope it is!!

We're giving OE one last chance and if it doesn't work we'll go straight to DE. I feel really good about that which wasn't always the case. It's a real process and for me it was always about how it would effect my baby too. Then my hubby said...ah come on if you weren't prepared to do this there would be no baby. Your giving them the gift of life and into a happy home where they'll be adored and cherished. What more could they ask for!?! Nothing like the male down to earth perspective ;-) Your sister is right.

Best of luck either way Cath. Hope you find your happy ending x


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## pattycake

Wondered if anyone has experience of success with Amy of 2.6 in mid 40s and medicated ivf with own eggs?  Sperm in good shape.


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## Guest

Hi All,

I started my cycle 2 days ago, on first scan on day 5 had about 7 follicles but on day 7 today after 2 days of 150 bemfola, only one follicle had moved to 14mm and the rest had just sat back. I know I am only doing natural modified so they only look to get one but in Jan cycle I had 4. So I have decided to cancel this cycle as for me each month is so different based on past experience. I am disappointed as am up against it with my age, just turn 44 this month, but think 1 More month isn’t going to make a huge difference but I might get more eggs. If next month is same as this month I will just go ahead with one as doing 3 banking.
It is so hard when you have the age issue and knowing for me that I can get very different results month to month. Anyway think i will have a large glass of vino to chill about it!
How is anybody else doing on this thread? Anyone started? Any success?


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