# No experience with children - is that it before we have even had the info eve



## daisypie (Jul 24, 2012)

I have my information evening booked for September so have been cramming and cramming as much as I can on any info I can find about the adoption process and pros/cons etc.  My OH is getting fed up with all the links I send him to read  

Anyhow one recurring issue that seems to keep coming up is that those with no experience with children are refused.  

We are in this category.  How the hell am I supposed to have experience if I haven't got children of my own - this is the reason we are wanting to adopt.  I work full-time so can not volunteer for another job working with children.  I do not want to volunteer for brownies/guides/scouts etc for personal reasons but really why should I have to do this.

I can quote the usual a 16 year old can get pregnant and have no experience and no support network around them but they get to keep their child - but because I have no children I get refused when we could offer a child a fantastic home and lifestyle with a couple in a longstanding (25 years) relationship and a loving family around them.

We have friends with children who we see all the time, but not many and obviously we only got the nice side of their behaviour as visiting aunty & uncle (especially when we were bearing gifts for them).

Can anyone tell me if this is the general perception of all LA's and SW's, because if it is i'm stuffed before I even get going.

Gail


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## snapdragon (Jun 27, 2011)

Well your experience with your friend's children is childcare experience. We were not asked to do brownies etc and my la prefer experience with nephews and neices etc so la's do vary on their expectations. If you could do some babysitting for your friends children, especially looking after them overnight this would be viewed very favourably. Good luck.


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## daisypie (Jul 24, 2012)

Hi Snapdragon

Sorry hadn't realised it was the same poster from my other thread.  All my friends kids are now teenagers.  Apart from one couple who we don't see very often at all so no chance of looking after those two.

We have looked after one friends child for the weekend but this was a very long time ago and she was around 10 (ish) crickey its that long ago she now has a child of her own!

Gail


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## snapdragon (Jun 27, 2011)

Most of our childcare experience is also in the past, my neice and nephews are also teenagers but the experience is still all down in our report. They will want references that comment on your abilities with children and ours included my sister in law who as I said now has teenagers and a friend whos children are grown up. 

We are also hoping for a 3-5 year old and we did find they were less concerned than if we were being approved for a youger child. 

Just hope I don't get turned down for lack of experience tomorrow.


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## daisypie (Jul 24, 2012)

Oh another one going for approval tomorrow.  Big fingers crossed for you.  Can't wait to hear how it goes


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## funnychic (Feb 2, 2012)

Hi there,  I have just completed homestudy and was approved yesterday! Yay! so its all fresh in my mind and what I can tell you is they will definitely
want you to show some examples of child care experience.  I know where you coming from re. the 16yr old keeping her baby etc but unfortunately that's the way it can be, but trust me I do know where you coming from!  
As someone else said different L.A's expect different things, so start by telling them you have had experience of your nephews/nieces/friends kids and    make it sound like its all fresh in you mind like it was yesterday even if it was years ago.  As you go through homestudy it gets quite intense and searching and this is when it might well show up any lack of experience but if you sw is any good she will be able to stretch your experience a bit to help you along the way!  If all else fails at this stage then I'm sure you would be able to sort out a little weekend volunteering somewhere.
Very best of luck let us all know how you get on. xx


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## keemjay (Jan 19, 2004)

trust me you want as much as experience as you can cos with adoption you have to hit the ground running so try to move on from the bitter feelings of the 16 year old (i do get it and went through the feelings myself) and think about how much its going to help you settle a child into your home as smoothly as possible...its in everybodys interest you have some idea of what you are doing when a child is placed  
your local town should have a volunteering centre which you could visit.if nothing else, ask your social worker what sort of thing they are looking for and if she has any ideas to help you  

funnychic has given you some good advice..the experience you have had are certainly worthy of noting down, ssw may ask you to detail a bit of it, so see if you can dig up some memories from it, what you might have learnt from it..

dont stresss unduly on it at this point..its a fact that most of those who are adopting are likely to have had less experience

goood luck

kj x


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## Old Timer (Jan 23, 2005)

Hi

I have to agree with KJ on needing as much experience as possible before a child is placed.  I had loads of recent experience with my neice & nephew, overnight, took them on holiday etc etc and had done babysitting as a teenager.  Even still I went and helped at Brownies, Rainbows and assisted my friend as a childminder after my normal job for a couple of hours 3 times a week.  My DH did Cubs.  It was a means to an end and having children was more important to me than thinking/feeling why should I have to do this.  Our LA stressed the importance of getting to know a child that you haven't known from birth and that is where the volunteering comes in, it is harder to get a relationship going with a child you don't know than one who has grown up from birth knowing you and that is what will happen when a child is placed.

We all know the feelings about 16 year olds having babies at the drop of a hat and being able to keep them, I'm sure everyone who has not been able to have a birth child has felt the same way but you do need to move on from this, both my children have very young birth mothers and not been able to keep their babies.

Every agency is different and you may find yours isn't that bothered.

Ot


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## katie c (Jun 15, 2009)

i didn't have a huge amount of practical child care experience. i still haven't changed a nappy!   but i haven't found it a huge issue.

what i did was spend time with friends and their children, observe their parenting styles and how they disciplined the children. i also spent a lot of time observing the childrens different personalities and how they responded to the discipline. (ie i have a friend with a poor eater who's also very stubborn, but they dont force him and let him try food as and when so it doesn't become a huge issue.)

then from reading adoption books (especially 'real parents real children') i discussed what parenting i'd copy, what i'd modify for the adopted child and what i'd do differently.

i too couldn't do something like rainbows as i'm a shift worker so couldn't commit to it. i'm lucky that i deal with children and teenagers in my job (i'm a PCSO) so also discussed this a lot. such as how i saw the impact of poor boundaries on older childrens behaviour, and reasons why kids act up, such as trying to impress friends.  i think it pleased them that i was looking beyond mothering a baby and considering the bigger picture.

anyway, worked for me, as we've been approved.   

i think its like any 'job' application...you just have to big yourself up a bit


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## thespouses (Jan 5, 2006)

Can I ask whether it's the whole Guiding/Scouting movement you don't want to get involved with (which is a matter of taste) or that you just don't want to do voluntary work with children in general? Because you would really find it invaluable if you did - you would be able to come across a much wider range of backgrounds through voluntary work than just through children of friends etc. 

I do Brownies/Rainbows and one of the other leaders does shift work - it's pretty common actually, lots of Guiders who do nursing/ambulance/police and other quite active careers - we just use her when we can, and draft in a parent for the day when she can't make it - she takes about 2 or 3 days per year as annual leave for Guiding things but the rest of the time we don't necessarily plan to have her there. 

We've had children from very difficult homes including with parents in prison etc. and it's a real eye opener - a Guide leader I know locally has a fostered child in her group - it's a very open movement. Youth groups in general (non-uniformed) can be similar in this sense.


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## daisypie (Jul 24, 2012)

Hi

It is just guides/scouting I do not want to be involved with.  Of course it isn't voluntary work with children that would be ridiculous thing for me to not want to do if I am wanting to adopt a child but It is very difficult to find groups that will take you as a volunteer when you work full-time.  I am not in a position where I can give up my job and to be honest wouldn't want to not even when I have a child.

The volunteering would be for the purpose of proving child care experience and 3/4 times per year would not be sufficient for what I need.


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## Old Timer (Jan 23, 2005)

There are lots of ways you can volunteer with children in the evenings and at weekends.  Do you have a youth club?  A sure start?  Library?  Could you be available occassionally to go into a school to listen to children read?  A lot of people do Brownies etc due to it being in the evenings and fitting in with jobs, whether they can do it every week or once a month isn't as important.  The 3-4 times a year mentioned in a post was not meaning for you to just do 3 - 4 sessions, it was reflective of how people working shifts do fit it in somehow.

Not knowing what hours you work, whether its shift work or not, its hard to say what there is out there but you could phone your local council and find out if there are any groups (sure start type of thing) that would fit in with your job.  It doesn't have to be for long and it may mean you use some days annual leave to do something if it gets you some experience and a reference to get you through the process.

OT


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## keemjay (Jan 19, 2004)

you would have to be prepared that you might actually have to give up work when you have a child..you will need to keep an open mind as to how things will work if the child you adopt needs you at home more than you expected. I know people who were certain they would go back to work but realised that it wasnt in their childs best interests to do so.
guides/scouting aside most sw's will want to see you put yourself out a bit to get some experience, your weekends may be precious to you while you work full time but you may need to sacrifice  some saturdays to get some experience under your belt..its considerably less then you will have to do when you have a child 24/7  

kj x


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## katie c (Jun 15, 2009)

Old Timer said:


> Our LA stressed the importance of getting to know a child that you haven't known from birth and that is where the volunteering comes in, it is harder to get a relationship going with a child you don't know than one who has grown up from birth knowing you and that is what will happen when a child is placed.


whereas our SW looked seriously underwhelmed when i asked if i should consider doing something like brownies. her opinion was that its all well and good being with children in a fun situation where they're likely to be happy and on their best behaviour. but our LA prefer you to experience dull and routine stuff, like meal times, refereeing sibling fall outs, tantrums at bed time etc.

funny how they all vary so much isn't it?


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## thespouses (Jan 5, 2006)

My fellow volunteer takes annual leave for 3-4 essential sessions per year, and the rest she turns up when she can, owing to working shifts she cannot commit to all meetings. She does not just do 3-4 sessions per year.

katie c if your SW thinks Brownies are on their best behaviour she is not living in the real world. Brownies on a sleepover? Totally hyper, some having never been away from home before? Some taking the chance of not being in school to fire up rivalries they can't properly get going at school? Girls also get to know leaders in a different way to teachers, as there is less "discipline", so they can disclose things they wouldn't otherwise.

Plenty of sibling fall outs and tantrums at bedtime I can tell you. And making 6 girls wash up for 24 is not very exciting.


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## smudgerbabe (Sep 16, 2011)

Hi Daisypie - I totally sympathise - it's actually quite difficult to find voluntary work with children at the weekends (esp if you can't commit to evenings as I can't due to work - also if Brownies etc is not for you). However I have managed to find something that I am interested in AND involves working with children AND is a few hours at the weekend and that is working for the Wildlife Trust helping out with the juniors events. Also check out this link in case there are other opps in your area:
http://www.do-it.org.uk/

However I do not have a huge amount of childcare experience apart from being very close to my young niece and nephew. My social worker said they may want me to do a few days placement in a nursery or pre-school to see how I interact with children - I said brilliant I couldn't wait. Apart from this my social worker didn't seem overly concerned so I would go with it for now and see what they say at the initial assessment (before the application starts).


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## oliver222 (Oct 8, 2009)

I choose to volunteer to gain experience, and improve my capabilities. I look after my Great Nephew a lot so have a lot of experience with him. I volunteer for Childline going into schools and doing presentations and workshops on abuse and I also volunteer in a Mens prison, in the creche area in the visiting room. 
Prison volunteering is a 4 hour shift a week (shifts allowing). Childline will be to half days a month roughly during school time. 
Friends have said to me you should not have to volunteer but in my opinion I choose to partly to improve my understanding and also to show my commitment to social worker / panel.


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## katie c (Jun 15, 2009)

thespouses said:


> katie c if your SW thinks Brownies are on their best behaviour she is not living in the real world.


well. no, she isn't. but not because of brownies 

anyway, why are you trying to convince me? i don't need to impress SS any more, i've been approved 

and in any case, just because i want a child doesn't mean i necessarily want to spend my spare time with other people's. do plenty of that at work!


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## keemjay (Jan 19, 2004)

katie c i dont think thespouses was trying to convince you of anything..just trying to make add to the discussion and show a counter argument..one with which i agree totally..i had exactly the same thought about brownies being on their best behaviour, 7 years old girls are notoriously tricky...and anyone who adopts a young girl will ultimately have one of them living in their house..plus baggage...same applies to cubs obviously..the point being its all well and good thinking you just need to change a nappy and think up meals for toddlers..they all grow up in the end  

oliver22..good on you, great ideas for voluteering..and the fruits of your labour will be rewarded when a child is placed.

kj x


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## Autumn Jade (Aug 29, 2010)

Hiya, I think there's loads of good advice in the posts above already, but I would like to add that getting experience isn't a 'box ticking excersize' (as my OH kept, very annoyingly, calling it!!) to get you through approval, it's preparing you practically for a life ahead where you do indeed hit the ground running- you'll want to feel as confident as possible and I know now my OH is ****ing himself because a) he has realised we've got kiddies coming & he doesn't know anything (poor lamb- he looks pertified! I'd feel sorry for him except for the chances he's been offered and turned down because they weren't convenient!!!) and b) that he'll now *have* to do what I tell him with regards to the children- I'm an Early Years Professional and have worked with all sorts of children for 20+ years but I still recognise that it's *very* different from having children at home, in your life, 24/7. I would say seek & seize every opportunity to work with children so you'll be giving yourself & your child/ren the best start possible- a confident mummy with lots of inside knowledge, handy strategies you'll pick up from the old timers as well as a larger pool of potential babysitters!


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## thespouses (Jan 5, 2006)

Yes I've felt that being a Guider has really improved my understanding - though we'll see if it helps when little boy reaches that age!


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## katie c (Jun 15, 2009)

keemjay said:


> katie c i dont think thespouses was trying to convince you of anything..just trying to make add to the discussion and show a counter argument..one with which i agree totally.


really? hhhmmm. well i might be being slightly over sensitive, and i appreciate it could be me reading it all wrong as sometimes the written word comes across not as intended. but it did come across as slightly 'judgey'...towards the OP for not wanting to do brownies, and me for using shift work as an 'excuse' not to either. and tbh i've had quite enough judgeing from social services.

i imagine the experience running/leading a childs group _is_ great, and while it IS great to get experience, and it WILL impress SS, you also have to be true to yourself. and if its not for you, its not for you. the very thought of camping makes me break out in a cold, clammy sweat let alone being responsible for a load of other peoples children at the same time. 

_i_ just wanted to reiterate to the OP if she doesn't want to do it, then don't. it didn't harm me (and in fact i dont think the three or four adopters i know did either, although i could be wrong) and there's other experiences you can use.


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## daisypie (Jul 24, 2012)

Hi

This seems to have turned into a do you scout or guide and if not why not -  I am not interested in this organisation at all - I am not going to explain my reasoning on this.

I have done many hours of volunteering over the years and I will volunteer my time to any other group that will gain me relevant experience and have actually emailed a fairly local organisation that I think would be much more beneficial in the adopting arena than guides/scouting.  

It has been suggested that I should give up a day per week of work to allow me to volunteer in a school.  Surely being able to hold down a full-time job and volunteer my evenings/weekends should show any SW that you are committed to getting experience and giving up work even if 1 day to work in a school is ludicrous in the days of economic uncertainty.  I can not believe that any SW would suggest that you sacrifice paid work to volunteer otherwise you would be turned down for adoption – this does seem a little harsh 

I understand and appreciate what everyone is saying about getting as much experience as possible and I take that on-board.

As to giving up my job completely as and when we are told we could have a child - this is just not going to happen.  I am not going to adopt a child and then go on benefits to raise them.  This to me is not being a very good role model to a child.  The age of child I am looking at adopting would not require me to leave my job or even go part-time.  The child would be in pre-school/infants depending on what age we are offered but as i've previously said because of my age I will be looking at the 3-5 age range.  I work for a very large organisation that have excellent policies in place for parents.  I am able to take quite a lot of adoption leave for when a child is first placed and then work very flexibly after this time to allow me to be at home whilst the child is out of school.


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## Old Timer (Jan 23, 2005)

Daisypie

Most people do guides/scouts due to it being in the evening - no other reason.  The fact you don't want to is up to you but people are offering you advice which is what you asked for.

I hope as you go through the adoption process you start to understand why experienced adopters have given the advice they have otherwise you could be in for a very big shock years down the line.  You  can't say for definate that a child you adopt will be able to cope with you working even part time, there are lots of adopters who have had to re-think their work life due to the needs of their children.  This year I have had to work out ways of being able to stay home due to my very settled son being thrown into turmoil by the death of his Granddad and his Daddy's reaction to this.  School age is when a lot of issues start to really be seen with adopted children, ones that no one would have thought likely when they were adopted, you just never know what is lurking or when it will resurface.  For me its not ideal because I love working but its what I am having to do to help my son and that is the most important thing - helping him.

Good luck for the future, keep an open mind because parenting adopted children is completely different from having birth children.

OT


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## blueytoo (Oct 5, 2003)

Daisypie - I have 20 years+ experience in child care and a teenage birth child and for what it's worth, I don't think guides or scouts volunteering has any real, tangible value in providing good, solid experience for adoption. There are far better organisations/ ways to volunteer that will give better experience. At prep groups we were told that they are the least preferable experience to have and as a current social work student, this is echoed in our lectures. It sounds like you have identified a good alternative already which is great.

However, Old Timer gives you great advice about the possibility of a child's needs being greater than may at first be obvious. Social workers will want to know that if you have to give up work completely because of the child's needs, that you are perfectly willing to do so and to be blunt, if you refuse then you likely won't go much further in the process. One of the adoptive parents at my prep group adopted a child that had been removed shortly after birth and was placed with them at the age of 12 months. All went well and after spending a year at home with him she returned to work part time. By the time he was 4 and started school, things started going downhill rapidly and she had to give up work altogether because her son needed her to be completely available to her. This isn't uncommon.


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## Old Timer (Jan 23, 2005)

Blueytoo - I totally agree with your comments about it not really preparing you for adoption, on our 2nd assessment the SW asked if we felt any of the experience we'd gain extra had helped and I was honest and said no.  NOTHING can ever prepare you for having a child arrive in your home, especially one that has been in the care system and after only a short time is in reality a complete stranger to you (& vice versa) but I also know that LAC SWs were looking at us above some other waiting adopters due to the amount of commitment we'd shown.  Maybe the best thing would be to foster first.....but then I wonder how many would go on to adopt


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## katie c (Jun 15, 2009)

i have to agree with OT and BT about the being prepared to take more time off than a year too, while i don't necessarily agree with the having to do scouts and guides thing.

i'd be pretty gutted to have to quit work, but i have explored the option of a career break if necessary. its just being realistic bearing in mind the child's possible issues and needs.

i personally wouldn't share the determination to return to work with SS. but definitely emphasis you have the option of flexible/part time working when you return as thats very positive.


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## wynnster (Jun 6, 2003)

Your question was to ask if this was the general perception of all LA's..... I think it probably is.  If you go to SS with your thoughts of 'I just dont want to do Brownies/Guides' & 'I will work, even when my child is placed'  I'm not sure you'll get very far.  
SS will want to see you're committed to putting yourself out there, to do things you don't 'want' to do but you have to, for a child, eventaully 'your' child, you must be seen (from the very beginning) to be putting that child first and thinking outside the box.


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## julesF (Apr 7, 2009)

I echo what the others have said about working full time, I am career orientated through and through and due to the position I hold at work there was no opportunity for me to go part time without a significant salary drop, which we couldn't afford


but my DH gave up climbing the career ladder and took 9mnths leave and returned part time, despite all this with a 5yr old and an 8yr old, even now we can't see him returning full time anytime soon. on top of that there is the assemblies, school plays, sports days it seems every week we are at school/beavers/dance/swimming to congratulate/watch something, if DH was full time as well our kids would never see us


it has required a very understanding boss and a lot of juggling to maintain by career and there is no way i could have done it with DH going part time


we all think we will be fine but those first 3-6mnths are dark hard and tough and that is no understatement, your life and career will go on the back burner


as for living on benefits - i know adopters who have given up their jobs to be stay at home parents as there kids have needed them - you can never tell what the kids are going to be like that are placed with you we are still at 4 appointments a week for motor skills speech etc 
the reason these kids need new homes is not because their birth parents were on benefits or poor but because of issues such as neglect.


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## thespouses (Jan 5, 2006)

Just to add to what others have said, children may need a period of extra attention at a point you don't expect. A colleague has a son with special needs who was fine in the early, nurturing years of primary school but it was once they all got older and the teachers expect more that he really struggled and she ended up going part time.


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## jitterbug (Nov 22, 2006)

Oh yes I will echo that... I had plans to go back to work on my original hours - I lasted a month before I had to drastically reduce them (thank goodness I have an understanding boss!) Also NOTHING will prepare you for having a traumatised, opinionated, LOUD toddler - but any experience certainly helps (I went into a school to help with reading - I took some annual leave to do it, but SS were impressed that I put my needs - for a relax in silence! - second - and I haven't relaxed since!). Just a thought on babysitters too - what are they?! We've managed to go out once in year (and were back for 10pm!)


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