# 2nd failed donor cycle :(



## Libbyloulou (Sep 1, 2011)

I have just failed my 2nd FET using donor embryos, with immune meds in this cycle. Has anyone else failed 2 or more times with donor embryos? I feel a bit useless and very sad.


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## Hopefulshell (Mar 14, 2013)

So very sorry - this process can be so heartbreaking  

I'm afraid I don't have experience of donor cycles but didn't want to just read and run. I'm sure one of these lovely ladies will have some positive advice to give you 

I do have some immune issues myself though so know much more about that side of things. Were you treated empirically for this last attempt or have you had in depth level 2 testing - nk cells, cytokines, thrombophilia etc? If not this could be a potential next step to try when you're feeling less raw. Agate's guide under the immune thread is brilliant for finding out what other investigations to try after a failed cycle.

I know how incredibly hard all this is and sadly it can take a few attempts to discover what the missing piece of the puzzle is. Give yourself time to grieve this cycle and don't ever feel useless. None of this is your fault petal. It's just Mother Nature being cruel! Try to distract yourself this weekend with nice things you enjoy and when you're ready you'll be strong enough to continue the fight for your dream 

X


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## Libbyloulou (Sep 1, 2011)

Thank you for you kind reply hopefulshell.

I had only basic blood Nk testing - i.e. NK (CD69) cell assay, due to limited finances. The results show details of natural killer cells count and activation marker of natural killer cells, so I think I was treated sort of semi-empirically. I have been on 25mg prednisolone, 5mg folic acid and have had 2 intralipids. I'm also on a pregnancy multi vit and levothyroxine (plus progesterone pessaries and injections and oestrogens).

These were my results:

*Natural Killer Cells Count*

Lymphocyte Count (10 to the power of 9/L): *1.660* (in bold blue type)

Total NK Cell Absolute Count (10 to the power of 6/L): *176.8* (in bold blue type) [Lymphocytes] Total NK (%): *10.6* (in bold blue type)
NK (dim) Absolute Count (10 to the power of 6/L): 170.4 [Total NK] NK (dim) (%): 96.4
NK (bright) Absolute Count (10 to the power of 6): 6.32 [Total NK] NK (bright) (%): 3.6

*Activation Marker of Natural Killer Cell*

Total NK CD69 Absolute Count (10 to the power of 6/L): *1.62 * (In scary RED bold type) Total NK CD69 (%): 0.92
NK (dim) Absolute Count (10 to the power 6/L): 1.34 [Total NK] NK (dim) CD69 (%): 0.76
NK (bright) CD69 Absolute Count (10 to the power 6/L): 0.28 [Total NK] NK (bright) CD69 (%): 0.16

Before I had the NK test taken, I got the all clear on arthritis, chlamydia and lupus from my GP.

I have had a thrombophillia test but didn't get my result back in time. I still haven't got it but in my first failed cycle, I bled very early so am thinking that uterine blood flow is not a problem. I may be wrong.

x


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## Lincs Jax (Apr 15, 2006)

Sorry Libby.


Did you have a hysteroscopy?


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## Libbyloulou (Sep 1, 2011)

Thanks lincs. No I didn't have a hysteroscopy.


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## Hopefulshell (Mar 14, 2013)

Hysteroscopy is a good idea to check if there is anything present within the uterine cavity that could be affecting implantation such as polyps etc.  My clinic did this procedure after my third failed attempt.

I would chase up your blood clotting test results as that too may give you some idea of what is going on. I discovered I needed blood thinners after having mine done so worth it just to illiminate things.

I personally haven't ever bled before OTD but it's my understanding that this can happen if the body doesn't absorb progesterone properly. Something else worth questioning at your follow up? I'm sure someone with experience of this can advise you on here as to what they did for subsequent cycles. 

I agree the full immune testing done by places like FGA are phenomonly expensive. I've had to pick and chose which to do myself as simply can't afford them all 😕 plus the medication is expensive too ... 25mg of pred I think is more than you'd be given empirically (my clinic only prescribe 10mg empirically) but I know every clinic is different. It's so hard to know what to test for when isn't financially viable to have everything done  The immune board is good for just getting an idea of what other ladies have done following recurrent failed cycles. And I'm sure the ladies on the donor boards will help advise too  

Just take time to get over your loss first though as all the next level testing can seem very overwhelming when you're so upset. It'll fall into place a bit more in a few weeks' time when you start to feel less lost  

X


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## Miss Sunshine22 (Mar 12, 2013)

Hi Libbyloulou

So sorry about your failed cycles   

Did you get good quality blasts on both of your DE cycles? Were the eggs from 2 different donors?
Have you had your DH sperm tested for DNA fragmentation? 

Just wondering if there are other reasons besides immunes for implantation failure and if you have looked at these?


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## Libbyloulou (Sep 1, 2011)

Thanks Hopefulshell and Miss Sunshine22,

Yes, I now have to decide which further tests/if any to go for...It's like finding costly needle in a haystack. It's knowing whether you can dig and find whats wrong or think that perhaps it's just a numbers game... So even if you have a high success rate treatment, in an excellent clinic, in every cylcle, there will still be a reasonable percentage of failure, I guess.

Yes, I'm going to look into the hysterscopy and chase my thrombophillia results. My body didn't absorb the progesterone on my first cycle but with the injections, that was ok this time and I haven't bled at all.

Miss Sunshine22, I used donor embryos, so double donor and had different donors for both cycles, both day five quality blasts...so the problem lies with me, not the embryos unfortunately,

Thanks for being lovely ladies x


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## Blondie71 (Oct 26, 2011)

Libby any history of tubal issues?? toxic fluid from hydrosalpinx or uterine fluid can also kill off embryos so just another box to tick off there x


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## Libbyloulou (Sep 1, 2011)

Hi Blondie71,

Thanks for replying, this is interesting. 

I have no history of tubal issues as far as I know but I have only had trans-vaginal scans (and the one on the tummy). Would they see that with scans or would it need to be a hysteroscopy or laparoscopy or something else to diagnose do you know?

I have had two previous pregnancies (some years ago) that didn't miscarry or fail to implant...one beautiful healthy 10 yr old! And one that that I had to deliver early due to a chromosome abnormality, but I guess tubal issues can develop at any time. x


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## Blondie71 (Oct 26, 2011)

Tubal/uterine issues usually occur when you've had any type of invasive surgery ie appendix, c-section, infection from surgery or sexually transmitted, things can go undetected for many years and can do silent damage so it does pay to check out these things as they often respond well surgically. 

Hysteroscopy can tell you alot regarding uterus but doesn't always show tubal issues (I had one through serum, Athens and it showed a very clean uterus but did NOT highlight my extensive tubal damage) so a HSG is prob best for tubes to see if they are open and "IF" that showed a problem a laparoscopy usually is required to remove the affected tube/s, I had this done and got pg first FET after 20+ years of infertility so it's def worth looking at the plumbing side of things   esp as you do know you can get pg so something is amiss for you x


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## Libbyloulou (Sep 1, 2011)

Thank you so much for this info' Blondie71, it is really helpful and something I am definitely going to explore now. I haven't had any surgery and as far as I know, I haven't had any infections but I have never had my tubes checked out so it would be good to do so.

You have had a long journey and I'm so pleased you got the golden ticket(s) in the end . This gives me hope (even though I am feeling pretty hopeless at the moment).x


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