# when is enough enough!



## flick

very very low... buried my mother -in-law yesterday and on the same day started my period..what lovely timing!! Was reallly really hoping (how foolish of me) that this month we may just just be lucky- i mean wouldnt that be amazingly special but NO instead extra depression and sadness on an already miserable day! 
When do you decide you have had enough? When and how do you give up and say that is it -something someone somewhere just does not want this for me and who am I to argue...it is all tooo tooo difficult!


----------



## KatieLouise

Dear Flick

I wish I could answer your question. DH and I have had big discussions recently about whether to carry on. We both feel that the stress and the pressure of ttc is turning what should be a happy, exciting time of our lives into a living nightmare. We haven't decided to give up, but we haven't decided to really go for it any more either. 

Hope you feel better soon. ^group^

Love Katie x


----------



## Pogo1

Flick,

I think we can all sympathise with the way are feeling right now. I cry my eyes out everytime my period comes - so you are not alone. Knowing when to give up is sooo difficult, you are always thinking, maybe next time will be my turn, or maybe a miracle has happened this month. Although you try for years, you still keep hoping that it might happen on it's own and that's a drain in itself. 

Dh and I have decided to give it three goes and then have a break to decide what to do. It will be hard decision and we might feel differently when it comes to the third negative. 

Sending some positive thoughts to you   

Love and hugs ,

Crystal
xx


----------



## Guest

Hi Flick
I am sending you lots of 

When is enough enough? I have been asking myself the same question recently. dh and I have done 8 ivf cycles and we are trying to come to terms with leaving it all behind and moving on. To tell you the truth, looking back, I sort of wish I had faced up to things earlier on, and maybe stopped sooner, because the tx has really taken its toll. But of course at the time you always think, maybe this time.... and I have to admit I am still thinking that way a little. Sometimes it's good to have a break from it all, a good 6 months or so, and to try to reclaim your life a bit and build up some strength.

You will know when you are ready to move on, Flick, and until then keep dreaming. You take care of yourself, I'm thinking of you,

love chick xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## KarenM

Hi Flick

Although I didn't do any tx's because of the diagnosis we got, I am in a similar position now in terms of our journey to adoption.

We have decided that we will give ourselves 18 months after our approval to be placed with children. By that time we will have spent over half of our relationship on ttc issues and we decided that in order to get some normality (whatever that is!) back in ourlives, we needed to draw the line somewhere.

I won't deny, deciding where to draw the line is the key thing. I suppose our decision was made easier by the fact that we wil NEVER have our own biological children.

Good luck with whatever you decide. there is no magic solution, just make sure that it is right for you and your dh.

Love
Karen x


----------



## flick

Thank you for all your support.
my husband will not even consider adoption- and i know that without serious drug intervention it will never happen! 
i just do not understand why for all of us here it has to be soooo damn hard 
It is also a difficult concept for people to grasp- i have had a few girlfriends who have tried for 3 months or so...big deal...and say to me i know how you feel. NO you dont know how i feel!!! 3 months later and you are pregnant. Sorry going thru a bitter and twisted stage- been here before i willl pick up again.
Luck and love to us all
Flick xxx


----------



## sas jane v

Hi FLICK - and love your banana !!! as all the other girls have said its got to be the most difficult decision when to stop
...as for me 10 years on we are still trying but in a less intense way and getting ever nearer to stopping.I know in my heart I will be devastated but also there will be some relief in letting it all go after all these years

but its not like buying a house where you stop looking is it - thinking it might happen is hard to stop too as we atre unexplained and therefore well it could happen but will it ??

..do understand your distress and sening you cyber hugs

Sarah xxx 
p.s. have found yoga a great help and having some acupuncture at the mo to relax


----------



## Bel07

Hi Flick

I can sympathise with the way you feel I have been ttc for 7 years on and off, to have finally succeeded then to have it cruelly snatched away.

It does drain you both emotionally and physically and tests your relationship to it's absolute limits.

We have decided 3 attempts at IVF will be enough, but (and there is always a but), when we get there who knows!!!

Within the llast 2 years I have lost 3 uncles, FIL and BIL and a close friend including our own baby, and you do think when do I get a break.

Try and keep strong for yourself and DH and maybe your dreams will come true for you one day.

Love and hugs ^group^ ^group^ ^group^

Bel xx


----------



## carole

Hi Flick

Just wanted to say I really identify with what you are going through. My dh doesnt want to adopt either. We are currently in our 5th and final 2ww and the odds are not in our favour! Hey ho. I think I may turn into an alcoholic sports car driver, but that doesnt mean I will be happy ....

Good luck hun

Carole


----------



## flick

Good luck with 2ww carole


----------



## liz S

Hi Flick,
I just wanted to say how much i feel for you. This IVF/fertility stuff is such a bummer.

I've just been through my 2nd ICSI cycle (-ve). I was absolutely knocked for six, i felt so positive that this was going to work for me this time.

Now, 2 weeks after af I'm only just starting to get a grip on life again (emotionally) I've only just stopped spontaneously bursting into tears and I'm back to that ever present niggle where i wonder whether a miracle will happen with a natural conception. (soooooo unlikely!)

It's so difficult to know when to stop. It's not like it's something you can stop and pick up again in 10 years time... for me this is my one shot at being a mother. This is it I won't get another chance.

Sometimes i feel strong and think 'I could survive not being a mother' other times i feel low and despondant and i think 'if i don't become a mother I'll go mad!".

It's also so exhausting having life on hold - I've been planning my life around a potential pregnancy for 4 years. Although in some ways I've got on with life... in other ways i've had that burning flicker of hope that maybe this time next year i'll be nursing my own baby.

It's been good to let off steam. I wish you all the best. My thoughts are with you so much

lizzie
xxxxxxxxx


----------



## astrid

Hi flick and all
I can totally empathasise with you and totally understand where you are coming from. Its an awful place to be and knowing the dream is becoming more distant is a hard one to swallow.
Is finally giving up about being emotionally tired and getting so used to all the disappointments? The fact that you cannot face any more tx? when do you say this is it?
What isn't written down in black and white is the ones that have to face the option of looking at different avenues or being childlless. You always hear of the more happier endings but this makes our situation even worst because you feel so left behind. Thank goodness we have the chance to share this with each other and get help and support.
I wish you all the luck in the world because all of you have had such an awful time of it..
Love and kisses
astridxx


----------



## Juel

Hiya Flick & everyone else 

I wish i could see you & give you a great big hug as i know how hard all this is....the constant struggle is totally draining & takes over your life completely...i'm glad you're able to vent your frustrations on here  

I just wanted to let you know that i'm around if you want to talk more as Dave & I have "given up the fight" & are surviving.....i never thought that i'd be able to say this but here i am!!!!

Our history is very confusing & i have been pulled this way & that way never really knowing direction to go in,we have done 2 cycles of ICSI & have now been given 3 different opinions (my own fault for going to 3 different clinics  ) but we both feel that enough is enough & we aren't going to do any more tx.

This wasn't a decision that we woke up one day & knew it to be the right decision there & then it sort of evolved over quite a few months....i got to the stage where i got stressed just getting in to the car to drive to the clinic just not knowing what they'd tell me this time!!

Dave & I have always had a really close bond & i could see that this was changing as i became obsessed with ttc,i was becoming bitter(which i said i never would!! ) & was pushing him away without really realising it....we were bickering all the time,we never had time for each other & i became really scared of loosing him.

I think that i'm the stronger one of the two of us but i was becoming more aware of Dave showing signs of cracking under the pressure of it all..he wasn't the fun loving man that was my soul mate & i didn't want to loose the Dave that i fell in love with so we sat down many,many times & talked & talked & cried & cried but we both felt that it was time to accept our fate & give up on tx.

I always said that if i lost my sense of humour i'd know that it was time to throw in the towel & sadly that was happening.... i was loosing myself,i didn't recognise myself & i didn't like the person i saw when i looked in the mirror & i guess i got scared.

Well all i can say ladies is that it's not so bad......i am feeling better in myself,i feel like a load has been lifted & my old self is returning quicker than i thought....i have time for other people & their proiblems again, i laugh like i haven't laughed for years,(my face used to smile but my heart didn't) & i feel like our marriage is better than it has been for ages......i still have times when i sit & ponder on the what if's but i can see a happier future now,one that i never thought i'd be able to see.
I used to hear people say "youknow when you've had enough" but i never truely thought that i'd be able to say that,i couldn't see me ever giving up until it was humanly impossible to do any more but i have & it's ok.

I guess we are lucky to be able to do this but all i can say is as long as you can see hope & there is a chance of you getting your dream keep going..you will just know when to give in i promise you & it will be the time when you can look forward & feel that you've done all that you can & can live without looking back & thinking "what if we'd had one more go"......

......i wish you all the luck for the future,take time out from time to time but don't give up until you're completely happy in doing so....i hope you never have to & your dreams come true soon!!!

luv&hugs
juels xxxxxx

Blimey..i've gone on a bit there haven't i !!!!!!!!


----------



## Bel07

Hi Juel

Reading your post made me cry, if I could change things for you I would in a heartbeat. I knew of your decision also when I met you at Stratford, and I think you and Dave are very strong and brave to have made that decision.

I know what you mean about it changing your relationship, it did ours for a while and David and I have decided that 3 goes will be our limit, as you said it takes over you and takes away the person you once was.

Like you I think that at the end of the day my relationship with my partner would have to come 1st after 11 years together I could not bear it if this was the one thing that drove us apart.

Good luck and lots of love for your new beginnings.

Love Bel xxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## KarenM

Hi everyone

Juel - I can liken to your post too, I spent alot of time becoming someone I didn't even recognise to the point where I hated myself. I had become so obsessed with us not being able to have a child of our own. That became easier when we had the firm diagnosis but prior to that point I'm surprised anyone liked me.

When I was going through a really rough time a friend sent me this poem.


When you get what you want in the struggle for SELF
and the world makes you QUEEN for a day,
Just go to the mirror and look at yourself
and see what that girl has to say.

For it isn't your father, mother, sister or brother
whose judgement upon you must pass,
The person whose verdict counts most in your life
is staring at you from the glass.

She's the person to please, never mind all the rest
for she's with you clear to the end,
And you've passed your most dangerous and difficult test
if the girl in the glass is your friend.

You may fool the world down the pathways of years
and get pats on the back as you pass,
But your only reward will be heartache and tears
if you've cheated the girl in the glass...


It made me realise that I had to do what was right for me (and dh of course, because he is part of me). I was cheating myself by not being honest with reality.

I wish there was some magic answer for everyone in this situation, but we are all different and respond differently to these sorts of issues.

Only YOU and YOUR DH can decide what is right.

I hope you all manage to find that balance and whatever your decision, no one will think ill of you.

Good luck

Love
Karen x


----------



## Suzie

hi juel
reading your post made me feel such admiration for you and your dh. Although i have not had anywhere near as much treatment as many on ff i still wonder when i can say enough is enough. 
Many thanks for putting your deepest thoughts on to paper and im sure helping others with their decisions.

take care
suzie aka olive


----------



## maxbabe

Dear Juel,

WOW is about all I can say about your post, I have been dwelling on your decision all weekend (saddo huh!!). And its taken me ages to put my thoughts down on paper so to speak....so bear with me...

I think your decision is incredibly brave and I admire that strength like you cant imagine. But I completely agree that when infertility takes over who you are as a person then steps need to be taken to remedy that. I have seen friends around me suffer terribly in their personal life as a result of not being able to have a baby, sometimes at the cost of their relationship and I have always wondered at what price do you continue.

I was with a friend yesterday that had a little boy through ICSI , a cycle I held her hand through each horrible step of the way. She and her dh went back to the hospital to see about another cycle but was told they didn't need any help as their tests came back as them being "normal". Good result. My friend told me that this has since completely changed their relationship, they are now so much more happy as a couple and even have sex because they want to and now even are back to enjoying it (amazing huh). Her comment was like a cloud had been lifted and they felt free, life without the burden of having to do any more tx was worth more to their relationship and their personal happiness that they didn't realise. 

Juel I wish you all the very best, you are an amzing person, and I really hope that one day you can maybe move on to start helping kids out there that really need a loving and caring home I know you could provide - just an option as I know we have discussed fostering before.

take care and I know you and dave will find a peace together many would envy


I hope it makes sense!!!!


----------



## Littlest

HI Guys

Got a bfn on Thursday and initially I was OK as I was pleased to have completed the whole process. My two eggs were good quality and nothing really went wrong except they didn't implant.

Now I'm not sure whether to go for another cycle. I'm 41. Dh isn't that bothered although if a baby arrived he'd be fine. It's not just going through the cycle - it doesn't end there does it with waiting to see if you miscarry and waiting for the downs syndrome test.

We've been together nearly 7 years now and seem to go from one major problem to another. I've even been hospitalised for depression during this time. I tried to give up trying last year but failed and so we went for IVF which ended up as ICSI at the last minute.

I'm so confused at the moment. Reading your posts is helping though. 

Sorry to go on but I'm just so fed up and angry.

Scared too as my niece is one on Saturday and I'm not sure if I'm up to going

Littlest xxx


----------



## GAIL M

Hi Juel,

It was lovely to meet you at Stratford and would just like to say how much I admire you and Dave for making your decision - you have found your soul mate and not everyone is as lucky in life to have that. It is something very, very special. 
I am going to print your post and if the day comes when me and Davie have to make that decision it will give us the strength to know we are not alone.

Take care,
Luv
Gailxx.

Maxbabe - it was great to meet you at Stratford .

Good luck to everyone else on this thread with what decisions you make.


----------



## Laine

Hey Juel,

Like some of the others, yourpost brought tears to my eyes and a lump to my throat.

I didn't realise that you and Dave had come to the decision you have and really do admire your courage and conviction.

You are both two of the nicest and funniest people I have had the pleasure to meet. I just know that you will be o.k and will enjoy your future together.

Thanks for sharing your feelings here with us. It has really helped me to put things into perspective, as we are faced with living childfree if our Clomid tx does not work.

Love to you both xoxo

Laine x


----------



## SueL

Hi

Juel - think that's the first time I've seen you write your feelings down   even though I know we have spoken. Wise words from someone who's going through it.

Flick - sorry to hear of your MIL ^cuddleup^ and only you and your dh will know when enough is enough. It's a hard call to make.

Just wanted to say to the rest of you, good luck with your decisions.

Love Sue
xxxxxxx


----------



## *Kim*

Juel & Dave

I just read your post and yeah it brought a tear or two to my eyes as well.
I must also agree with everyone about it being a very hard and brave decision to make.

We both think you are a lovely couple and love seeing you two at the meetings. Hope we will still see you both.
I'm not very good with words so i'm not going to waffle on. Just wanted to say i admire you both very much for making this decision.

Love Kim x x x


----------



## flick

Hi Juel...I think everyone has said it really- you are obviously one lovely amazing person and thank god i found this site. It is when you feel like this and you post something and get terrific inspirational replies like yours that it gives you strength- strength to carry on or get closer to the reality of giving up- should not call it that really as you have shown us all- it is MOVING ON.
Thank you  Flick xx


----------



## DawnJ

Dear Juel

Wow what a lovely and sweet post.

You are both such wonderful people and deserve happiness together. I am just so sorry that the 'Stork 'didnt manage to find you and deliver the baby that you so much want.

May your lives be enriched with other wonderful things and your love keep you united. 

I for one, feel very priviledged to be able to say I know you and have you in my life. Good luck to you both in everything you do in the future.

Love and hugs mate,

Dawn xxxxxx

PS: We have seen so many unusual things happen on FF, I just pray that maybe an unexpected gift comes out of the blue for you!


----------



## Juel

Just wantedto say "Thank-you" to everyone who's replied to my post & given me words of support..it means alot especially as i was just trying to reply as best as i could to Flick ...i really didnt expect any response to my post but thank-you all so much.

I keep thinking of other things to put into words to help those of you who are considering moving on (nice wording flick ) but i could waffle on forever...as SueL said i don't write about my feelings very often,i'm very much a "mask" kinda girl but i could very easily rant for England now i've done it once  but hey i won't .....i just want anyone who is at the moving on stage ,don't be scared you can do it as Dawn J says you just need to look at what wonderful things you already have & too easily forget to recognise....
....i have my wonderful hubby who i love to bits & he makes me truely happy  

Thanks again everyone..by the way i hope you don't think you're getting shut of me   ...

luv&hugs
juels xxx


----------



## *Kim*

Good job too. Nice to hear it.  

Love Kim x x x


----------



## Barbara

Hi Flick

Reading the posts here brought back so many memories. I had been on clomid before moving to ICSI.

After 2 negative ICSI's I was a mess. I really had to sit down and think where was the happy person that I had been. 5 years of waiting and treatment had really taken there toll to the point where I didn't know who I was anymore. I felt life was totally on hold and my dh and I were loosing the bond we once had.

I came to the decision that we would fund 1 more attempt and if this failed then that was it. My dh appreciated what the treatment was doing to me and supported me in the decision. I won't say that the decision was an easy one but like Juels an some of the others have said, you seem to know when enough is enough.

A friend supported me through my treatments (she had been doing her 2nd cycle when we did out first). Sadly her 2 cycles failed and her frozen embot transfer didn't proceed as the embots didn't survive the thaw. We discussed the situation and she said that she had reached the decision that enough was enough.

No decision through this tx stuff is easy, the hardest is probably the final decision to make when enough is enough. Soo many have been there.

I know we have been so lucky and just pray that others are as lucky as we have been to receive our little miracle. I think even through my pg I was numb and it is only now that I feel "me" has returned and tit is now 7 years after starting down the tx route.

Take care everyone - love to you all.

Barbara


----------



## cindyp

Flick, I wish you the best in whatever decision you reach, it is one of the hardest things to go through but sometimes only you know that you've had enough.

Juel, I applaud you for not letting ttc spoil everything that is good about your life. I know just what you mean about not recognising yourself in the mirror. I'm normally the jolly optimistic but all the tx left me grieving with bouts of severe depression, which is not how I want to spend my life. We've just come back from holiday and we had a good time, occasionally I looked at Lee and realised life wouldn't be that bad if it was just the two of us. Although we're going for adoption, like Karen we are allowing ourselves an 18 month time frame to become parents. Although I really want to be a mother, I have always wanted and will always want to be more than just that, I will always want to be ME.

If trying to be a parent ultimately takes more away from life than it adds then I think that maybe it's not the right thing to do.

Juel and Dave, wishing that your life continues to be filled with the happiness you are rediscovering.

love
Cindy


----------



## Dee

Dear Juel

I have only just read your post.

My respect is overwhelming for you and Dave .. you are two wonderful people who deserve only the best in life and after much soul searching the best for you both is clearly each other.

I wish you a long and happy future together.

Love and Hugs
Dee
xxx


----------

