# CF general chat part 1



## MissTC

Welcome to your new home ladies  

Happy chatting

Love
Tracy
xxx


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## lotsky

Hi Ive been diagonosed with CF infertility. Apparently 6% of all infertility cases are cervical related. Id love to hear from others with similar stories. Lotsky


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## mysticmagpie

Hi there!

Good to have this board! Thank you all.  Wonder if cervical factor could be a lot common than it appears as it seems that not many clinics seem to do the dreaded PCT's anymore that seem to diagnose this in the first place!! Maybe i'm wrong?!

Anyway for the record it I appear to have cervical factor in that since sometime last year I appear to be killing off all dh's wrigglers due to being too acidic inside.  How or why that has happenned is beyond me as I was pg last march (m/c) - since then 3 PCTs revealed 'naff all' (3rd one was medicated) then the 4th which was medicated too (in same cycle) BUT the difference was that I had to use a bicarb douche and i seemed to get a very positive result.  Cons wasn't able to give me a explanation at my last appointment as to why this happens - i have been trying to 'realkanise' myself with a very punitive diet , acu and reflexology but nothing has happenned.  Ditto trying the bicarb when bd.  Cons now thinks I have pcos on top of this so not feeling too optimistic as nearly 39 and time is rapidly running out.

Anyone else similar ?  There is hardly any info about this on the web - i am at Bristol CRM who seem to be the only clinic that seem to endorse bicarb douches.

Keen to hear about any other experiences.

All the best

Mystic Magpie xxxxx


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## lotsky

Hi Mystic Magpie, 
It is beyond me too how I have it. I have had two of those post coital tests and failed them both the wrigglers were either a long time dead or fighting for the last breath of air...
I really dont know how or why i got it, the only solution my clinic offers to it is IUI as this bypasses the cervix and therefore eliminates the problem.....


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## mysticmagpie

All the best for your test in Jan!xxxx

I was told I could have IUI but now they think i'm polycystic too i expect that will complicate things.

xxxx


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## lotsky

Thanks I hope its good, but last month it wasnt and nothings  changed


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## *katie*

Hello ladies!  Can I check - by cervical factor if, do you mean hostile/acidic cm, etc?  If so, I'd like to join you if that's ok!

Just thought I'd check exactly what cf means before I bore you all with my life story!  

Katie x


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## mysticmagpie

Hi Katie!

Good to hear from another 'newbie' - that's exactly what cervical factors for so fire away.  I think i've seen from your previous posts that you are at Bristol CRM - so am I but as a nhs patient although this may change soon.

Anyway good to see you here look forward to hearing how you are doing 
xxxxMystic Magpie xx


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## lotsky

Hi There, yep this is the right place to be for cervical factor any tips pass them on!Me and DH had 2 failed post coital tests last year so weve been doing IUIs. Now moving onto IVF/Egg share if we can. xx


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## *katie*

Hi girls, and thanks for the warm welcome!

Well, our story is that we are both male facotr and unexplained, although it looks as though the unexplained is due to me having hostile(acidic) cm.

We had 3 pct's before Christmas, all medicated.  The first 2 tests were negative, and the 3rd showed only 1 live swimmer after I'd used a bicarb douche.  

We only had the pct's by chance because at that point we were male factor (low count all round following vas reversal), but due to my age our consultant did the pct to basically just show that we were ok to continue ttc au naturelle until May which will be 2 yrs by then.  We were all therefore pretty gobsmacked to find that any of df's swimmers that were strong enough to get anywhere were then being dissolved in an acid bath!!

So we've now opted to continue ttc au naturelle until May with me using a bicarb douche at home (the days of spontaneous   are a distant memory  ), and then we'll be having icsi if not pregnant by then.  We were offered IUI but decided against it, knowing that we have sperm probs as well.

Like you girls I've spent quite a bit of time recently looking up "hostile cm" , etc on the internet but there really isn't much info to hand is there?  I think because it's such an ambiguous test, a lot of clinics don't do it, therefore there's not much info to go on.

So are you girls trying anything differently?  Like I said,  I'm trying the bicarb douche and then next month we're going to try to stick to an alkaline diet for a couple of months if poss.  I've just emailed some company advertising 45 free recipes so I'll let you what they're like!

Well, I'll be off for now....speak to you soon,

Katie xx


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## lotsky

Hi Katie
Yes looking up on the internet cervical mucus is a mine of not much really. I dont think the drs even understand why it happens but to some unfortunate souls like us it does. 
Were up in the air over what were going to do but the drs say whatever IUI or IVF will solve the issue
xx


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## mysticmagpie

Hi there Ladies 

Just realised I hadn't had a look for a while so thought i'd touch base.

Lotsky - thanks for the thoughts the other day on PCOS and cervical factor - i really wonder if it is related..however there's always one exeption to the rule - my friend has PCOS and is what you'd call a 'classic case' and she was told on account of several failed PCTs that she had cervical hostility (however ph was not an issue) but then after she had a fibroid removed and went on the low GI diet hey presto a positive PCT within a month of this which is really weird - doesn't add up does it?  

Katie - it made me laugh reading about the bicarb because that is exactly what i'm having to do - you are at BCRM aren't you (i'm on the NHS arm of it) - they are quite keen to promote the bicarb theory there it seems as I believe some research on it was done in the past however the proof will obviously be when we get in the pudding club(!) - although i must say i was gobsmacked to get a positive PCT after trying it  - couldn't believe it but the nurse let me look so i guess it must have some validity although with me they now think i have PCOS so i'm still waiting for a diagnosis - at my age its getting a big issue so i may well be sitting alongside you at Repromed very soon.

Interesting to see that you  are looking at diet - In October I went on an alkaline food combining diet for a couple of months but it didn't do anything - I tried wheatgrass and acupuncture but nothing then it all got screwed up with doing the medicated cycle.  I am now on what is sort of low gi diet but at xmas i fell down quite a bit like we all do.  I also take EPO and this American supplement called 'FertileCM' which definitely seems to increase the amount but not the ph!! (bought some litmus papers to test the ph but got a bit obsessive about testing).  When i saw my consultant last week I asked him what causes the acidity and he said that it just happens that the body goes out of balance but can right itself again  - and the only thing you can do is the bicarb plus more of the dreaded PCTs to check periodically if it has righted itself (which i wouldn't want to do cos it means risking another month where the possibility of conceiving won't happen).  So I am girding my loins for medicated IUI/Clomid/metformin - i am having a lap & dye and hysteroscopy on Tues  - about time too!! 

Anyway better sign off now and get dh to put the kettle on!  to you all!

xxxxxxMYstic Magpie xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## lotsky

Yes, 
Can I just add one thing which I was told, drink a spoonfull of cough syrup called Robitussin for the days leading upto ovulation. Apparently just like it thins out mucus in your lungs it sorts out cervical mucus too. 
I did it for the last 2 months with IUIs in a Natural Cycle ( and got BFN ) but who knows. 

Im personally leaning towards the theory that Cervical factor can never be alone. I really believe now the mild PCOS may be influencing the mucuc quality, and if I sort out the PCOS on met, maybe the mucus will be fine. 

Lotskyxxxx


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## mysticmagpie

i'm inclined to agree but due to the complete lack of info on this area it's never really possible to know for certain is it - even the consultant didn't really seem that sure and wiht the limited time you have with them its never really possible to have a proper discussion about it


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## lotsky

Ill second that. Wait ages for an appointment, wait ages in waiting room, be hurried in and out in 5 minutes ( and if its private ) be hurried to swipe your credit card!!
I will see what happens this month. Its my first month on met and Ill see what the results may be!
Im going to the clinic tomorrow so Im going to ask some more questions over the 'cervical factor'. Ill post tomorrow night or Wednesday morning detective Lotskys findings!


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## mysticmagpie

Fantastic! Nice one!

It will be good to have some stuff to look at during my time off work  - I am having a lap & dye and hyst tomorrow so will be off the rest of the week thank god!!  I have a horrible temp job where i'm not being treated very well so it will do them good to do without me for a few days -its amazing how the IF issue is making me less and less tolerant of seemingly trivial things, I don't know if that's the same about anyone else!

If I get anything more from my consultant tomorrow I will let you know 

Take care

xxxx xxxxx


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## *katie*

Hello ladies!

Sorry I've not been on here a great deal (mil very poorly so things a bit hectic at the mo).

Mysticmagpie ~ Yep..good old bicarb!  Am trying to find some syringes for sale on t'internet and the quill bits...have been boiling them after use til now and am tempted to sterilise them....but my house is running the risk of starting to like the back room of a pharmacy with all the lotions and potions we've tried.  I have yet to use the bicarb without it running all down my back....yuck yuck and yuck!!    Anyway.....that is all WAY too much info I'm sure....but you gotta laugh havent you!  How did your lap and dye go...hope it wasn't too painful.  I'm also finding that IF has made me a lot less tolerant of things...funny how it takes over your whole life...it just kind've creeps up on you somehow!  Oh I've just re-read your last post about using the litmus paper....that's so funny because I've been thinking about doing the same thing!!

Lotsky ~ I do remember trying Robitussin once before, and yes I do seem to remember being aware of a difference.  Must see if I can dig out the bottle again...if it helps it's worth a go.  It would be interesting to know if cervial factor is usally secondary to another prob.  It wouldn't change any tx in our case because we've have probably needed ICSI for male factor anyway, so me having this has more or less confirmed ICSI for us, and I don't think I'll be having any further tests...not much point at this stage because it wouldn't alter the treatment path.  But it'd be good to know.  I find it so frustrating to know that I have something that no-one, even the professionals, know much about.  And of course, even worse is the fact that without anyone looking into the causes of it, a cure is unlikely to be found, if one does exist in the first place!!  I hope it turns out that the met has helped...I'll be looking out for your next message!

Well I'll be off for now....hope you're both having a good weekend.

Katie xxxx


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## *katie*

Yoohooo....anyone here?!  

I think we've all dispersed off to other threads again at the mo!  If anyone new comes on here with cervical factor, please feel free to pm me if I don't spot your post as I'd love to chat!

Katie x


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## edel1981

Hi i am just woundering how do u get tested for hostile mucus? I have been reading this thread and thought maybe i could look into this as i had been diagnosed with endo in dec 07 through a lap&dye and it was removed by lazer i was told to keep trying and there is still no BFP not even late   so im taking clomid aswell. Had an appointment feb 07 and was told to keep trying and come back in 2mths.


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## mysticmagpie

Hello there!

The way they generally test for hostile mucus (at least in Bristol anyway but some clincics don't tend to bother as they just go to either IUI or IVF) is by the lovely PCT (post coital test)- around ovulation time when your mucus is at its best basically you go in the morning after and they take out a sample of the mucus and look to see if there are any wrigglers in it.  as it has to be done at a specific time you can end up having to do several or even a medicated one (if you are inconsiderate enough to ovulate on a weekend!).  Sometimes they may carry out cross mucus testing (i think its called) in a lab aswell which is less intrusive.  

There seems to be a real lack of information generally around the issue of hostile mucus - it can be hostile in that it contains antibodies to your partner's wrigglers or it may not be the right ph and will kill them off (quite rare apparently).

Hope that helps

Mystic magpie xxx


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## edel1981

hi there 2 thanks for replying 
i just dono wat to do we have been trying for nearly 3yrs now and even after getting lap&dye and everything was ok tubs and womb fine just moderate endo found but removed and the consultants just keep saying keep trying (like we havent been already  ) is there any way of finding out without havent to go get this test done like a home test?? I am not back in the hospital for another 2mths and there is no point in wasting are time if nothing is gona happen.I dont seem to get that much egg white ewcm when i ovulate it starts a couple of days before and goes on for maybe 6days then i get a creamy cm (sorry tmi) is there anything i could take to increase the amount?


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## *katie*

Hi there Edel and nice to "meet" you!

I would doubt that there's a home version of the post-coital test, because (a) the cm has to be collected from around you cervix area so it would probably be a bit too far to delve for an untrained person (sorry if tmi!) and (b) both the sperm and mucous have to be looked at in the lab, and their interaction looked at too.

I keep planning on getting myself some litmus paper to see if that gives any ideas to my cm's ph, however I wouldn't like to rely on that for a proper answer...I think it's probably one of those things that's best left to the pro's!

Your cm types sound fine to me.  I have read (and tried) a few things said to improve amount of cm...

1. Drink plenty of water (a good 2 litres a day).
2. Drink green tea (although I cheat on this one and have the typhoo green tea which looks and tastes like normal tea!).
3.  Some people try taking cough syrup, especially Robitussin, to increase cm.  Obviously you should bear in mind it's possible interactions with any meds you already take, and you may want to chat to your gp first if you've any concerns.  I think there was a mention of this back earlier in the thread.

My mind has gone blank but if I think of more I'll let you know.

The other thing to bear in mind is that you probably have more cm than you realise.  When I went in for my 3rd post-coital test I told the nurse I didn't think there was any left and she found loads.  I think she compared it to icebergs, as in we just see the tip!!!   

Katie x


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## zoie

i have cf but i dont need any test to tell me as i have a lung condition called cystic fibrosis where i suffer from thinkened mucus in my lungs ect
i tryed robutisin and it did reduce the thickness but diddnt work i think you are ment to take 1tsp four times a day 2 days before you ovulate and carry on around 2 two days after i know some people have had great experiences and got bfp drinking lots of water can help and i also got told to use water and slight amout of lemon juice and give yourself a rince if you know what i mean it dont sound nice but you got to try everything, i havent tryed this so cant give advice. 
also if you know your ov date try booking yourself for a smear that day it migtht clear alot of the mucus so some could get past.
i have been ttc for 5 years now and have my tranvag scan soon and then hopfully i should start doc says that i should be in and out but who knows? in trying medicated iui at basildon hospital


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## *katie*

Hi Zoie, Nice to "meet" you! 

Drinking water does sound like a great idea...something I'm trying to increase at the moment.

I personally can't do the lemon douche thingy as my cm is too acidic so that may well add to the problem, but instead I've been advised by my consultant to use a bicarbonate of soda douche instead which should help lower the ph.

Like you say, who knows if these things work....but it's got to be worth a try!!

Any ideas when your IUI will start?  Good luck!!    

Katie x


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## zoie

hi katie thanks for the reply it nice to help with advice and also get some ideas cause the doctor has not told me any way to help with the mucus they are just going past that idea
im not sure when my iui will start but ive got scan to check everything ok on 23rd and then after that if everything ok then i should start treatment asap this is what he said the bonus ive got is that my consultant is doing all of it and not hes registra cant ask for more really
how about you have you had treatment? if so could you tell me what its like


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## *katie*

Hello!

Oh that's great news that your consultant is doing everything...nice to feel that you're in good hands! 

In one way it must feel like the 23rd is ages away, on the other hand it's not too long, and you'll soon be heading towards your treatment!

No, I haven't had any treatment yet. We're having our first icsi cycle this summer (next appt 1st may to sign consent forms, then our planning appt then our treatment cycle).
I'm very scared but equally if it's our only chance of having a baby then I'm happy to go through with whatever it takes. 

Is your cystic fibrosis well controlled otherwise then hun? Does that affect you ttc in any ways other than the cm thing?

So I can't offer you any advice directly on how it feels to go through treatment. There's the IUI boards....have you taken a look at those?

There're boards here for virtually everything (in fact, probably everything!), and at the moment I probably post regularly on about 4 or 5 of them.

Anyway, I hope you have a good weekend...doing anything nice? Hopefully "speak" on here again soon 

Katie xx


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## zoie

hi my cystic fibrosis doesnt stop me from ttc in anything else other than cm but some fall pg on there own its just luck i suppose but cause ive been trying for a long time that says somethings wrong !
you havnt got long till may and i think when you start every hurdle you come to you have to think of the result in the end thats what helps you keep positive you will have to keep in touch and let me know how you get on you can always pm me


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## Danni

Hi
sorry to interrupt-dont know if its any help but a friend of mine bought something off the internet-called Preseed-Ill ask her from where-its friendly to sperm, she inserted this Preseed 2 days before ovulation and had a BFP-i also thought at one stage i have a cervical factor as I never had much CM but I did eventually have a dd after many years without help.
She told me the stuff is called PRESEED-have lost contact with her but will try and see if I have her number if you are interested
Cheers


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## zoie

hi danni could yoy tell me what preseed does like how it help and stuff thanxs


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## Danni

Hi
Check out www.preseed.com
               www.MedicalTestCentre.Co.Uk
Its the same stuff for hostile sperm. It cant do harm, they also sell it on Ebay, I will also try it when I ttc again. It might not work for everyone but if the only problem is hostile CM then it cant do harm to try it
Good luck

/links


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## *katie*

Hi girls,

Yes, I've used pre-seed in the past.  It's basically a lubricant which is said to not harm sperm (nearly all other lubricants can harm sperm).

Ideal if you don't have much cm / suffer from dryness which in turn can sometimes cause painful  .  

The theory is as it doesn't harm sperm it will help carry sperm up through the cervix, like cm normally would.

Didn't work for me....but what works for one doesn't always work for another & vice versa.

Good luck, and if you girls try it let me know how you get on!


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## Travel Girl

Hi Girls

Can I please join you?  Have finally taken the plunge and registered.  Really pleased to see I'm not the only one with acidic CM.

I was told about the acidity after negative PCT's,  My ph level was 5 (should be 7) so not good, also levels of CM weren't great so have been given extra oestrogen to take on days 10-14.  Also on Clomid to boost ovulation.

Have also been recommended the lovely douching with bicarb.  How lovely is that?! 

However, I have to say that it does obviously work as after 3 negative PCT's and on my 2nd month of douching we had a positive PCT last month so at the moment we're hoping it's under control.  No BFP yet though  

We're going back to the hospital this week to discuss what happens next.  Also want to ask about the possibility of there being other problems having read back over some of the messages here.

Anyway, wanted to say hello and will no doubt be in touch soon.

Travel Girl  x


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## zoie

hi i was just wondering if you tell about the bicarb thing what it is where you get it and also how it works this would be helpfull !
also welcome to the site im sure you will find it reasuring and will help you with any problems


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## Travel Girl

Hi Zoie

The hospital recommended diluting 5ml of bicarb of soda (regular baking soda you can get in a supermarket) in 1 pint of tepid water.  This then is syringed so that it gets as close to the cervix as poss.  I was unsure how much of the 1 pint you're supposed to use and the hospital said it was enough to douche the area.  I've ended up using the whole pint! I do it in the bath as a lot does run out.  We were then told to have sex within 30 mins of douching although I think this advice differs between clinics.  

It does take a lot of romance out of it and there's a lot of pressure on DH - 30 mins isn't long.  This is now our fourth month on the bicarb.  Only need to do it around ovulation so it's not all the time.  The hardest one is the first of the month, I tend to get quite upset then.  After that's out of the way i tend to laugh about it as it is so ridiculous!

I've also started an alkaline diet, no major changes but I'm sure it all helps.  Fruit wise, melons, grapes and mango are the most alkaline so they are now the only fruits I have.  Other fruits are alkaline but these are the best. I also have hot water and lemon (lemon bizarrely is alkaline) and drink as much water as I can.  

Something worked for us to get a positive test last month so I am proof that the acidity can be controlled.

Hope this helps and sorry if it's TMI!

TG


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## mysticmagpie

Just to let you know the bicarb route worked for me.  didn't believe it at first but after the 2nd try it worked and i am now 12 weeks pg. I was told i could do it up to 2 hours before the deed - 1 level tsp to half  a pint of tepid water. I also took Boots Nirolex for chesty coughs that month so if that made a difference im not sure.

I now have a brand new packet of preseed which i sent off for and haven't used so if any offers please pm me


Good luck
xxx xxxxxxx


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## poppystar

Hello All

I have had lots of tests and not really shown up anything.  CM has never looked normal to me quite thick all the way through - personally think this may be the issue - also told i have a very small cervix?  Hospital has never even asked me about it.  What is the best way to get CM as an issue diagnoised.  On clomid at the moment but CM still looks wrong.

oh and just ordered some preseed.

many thanks.


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## eimer

Hello Poppystar

I also have a very small cervix, although it has nothing to do with infertility. as for testing CM
i think there is a test that is carried out to check the acidity of your cm to see if it is killing off the  
not sure what its called though.
have you mentioned your concerns to your clinic?


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## *katie*

Poppystar and Eimer!

Poppystar the test you are referring to is called a Post-Coital Test. You  the night before, and then your clinic take a sample of the secretions from around your cervix (much like a smear test) and look at it under the microscope.

They will look to see you cervial mucous to check it's thickness, stretchiness, appearance and PH amongst other things.

They will also look at any of your dh's sperm that are found to see how they interact with your cervical mucous.

If there are any concerns over the sperm-mucous interaction they may, with your consent, do a cross-test where they look at his sperm with another sample of mucous from someone else, to see how it reacts to determine whether there may be a prob with you cm and / or his sperm.

This is not a test which can be bought over the counter, it has to be done in a medical setting, so as Eimer has suggested it may be worth mentioning it to your clinic if you are concerned.

The other thing to note is that of you do have post-coital testing done, expect to have possibly a couple of tests done within a few days. It's a test which is highly debated amongst medical professionals as to it's value in diagnosing infertility as often the ph result is unfavourable to sperm. But one of the possible reasons for this is because our CM is only ever at a favourable ph for a short space of time anyway, so the clinic do have to make sure they test at the optimum time, hence the possibility of a likely call-back.

Along the lines of this test being a debated one, bear in mind that a lot of clinics don't offer this test because of it's dubious accuracy.

Hope this answers some of your questions, ask away if you have any more!

Katie X


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## Travel Girl

Hi there

I know not many of us look at this thread as acidity seems to be a rare form of IF.

Just wanted to come on and say that I've had a   this morning.

I was diagnosed with acidity in Feb and was given clomid (to boost ov) and oestrogen (to increase levels of CM).  This was my 5th month on clomid and had given up hope.  We have been preparing ourselves for IUI.

Douching with bicarb obviously has done the trick so wanted to reassure you all that it can happen and the problem can be overcome.

TG x


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## eimer

Hi TG

Just seen your post

Big congratulations on your BFP, good luck for your scan.
Hope you have a healthy 8 months

eimer x


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## LadyMoonlight

Hi everyone

I'm just curious to get some advice

We have MF problems and did manage a natural BFP with our son in March but we're having no luck the second time around!

I've noticed that I suffer from extreme vaginal dryness/no CM - in fact I don't think I've ever seen EWCM.

Last time I underwent fertility investigations this side of things was never looked at - noone suggested giving me estrogen or anything - they wanted to push us straight into ICSI.  Luckily we then got our BFP.

I don't know what I should do - we're currently at the mercy of the NHS and waiting for an appt to see the same clinic we were previously investigated at - likely to be a 10 month wait.  My GP is useless on fertility matters and I don't know if theres something I should try in the meantime.

I've bought some cough medicine with Guaifenesin in it and have ordered some Pre-Seed from Ebay but are these any substitute for natural CM?  Does a lack of CM mean I'm unlikely to be ovulating (even though I have all the Ov symptoms?)  I'd really appreciate some advice . . .


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