# i think she is being very cruel......



## kelway

i am in a really awful situation. when i had been ttc No. 2 for over a year a friend (used to be close but had drifted a good couple of years at the time) got pg with No. 2 within a few months. she was totally indiferent towards my feelings so much so that i had to tell her that it was too emotionally hard for me to be around her. this she did not like and still didn't get it, too long a story to list all the things she said, but it added tremendously to my situation by making me more upset. push came to shove when i got a text from her one day telling me how (quote) 'she was desperate to get it out of her', i was so upset to read this as i was so desperate 'to get it in me' that i severed the ties. i hadn't seen or spoken to her from around her being pg 16 weeks until now, she had her baby just before christmas. i did the right thing in that i texted congratulations as well as sending a card but i have made no attempt to see her as too painful for me right now. not in a good space. am full of clomid and very teary, doesn't help that when i collect dd from nursery i am what appears to be the only one there when having dropped her off that i am without a buggy or am in possession of a large bump. this ex friend had a birthday party for her dd and my dd went with dh, i didn't go, clearly indicating to my ex friend that i am not ready to be around her still. push came to shove today when i got a text from her saying (quote) happy birthday myrtle. i have got a present for her, how can i get it to her'. this has made me really angry as she is using this birthday present as an excuse to get to me. why can't she leave me alone. she would have/could have posted the bloody present. what she really means is that she is peed off (still) that i have made no effort to be around her so she is putting me on the spot. my dh said to delete and ignore the text but it has made me feel really uncomfortable and upset. it has made me feel guilty but it has also reaffirmed my anger towards her. she should have texted dh and not me. she knows i don't want to be around her, more so now she has a beautiful new dd and i am full up on hormone pills. my mother doesn't get it, she thinks i should just deal with it and put on a front and see her, this has always been her opinion as this is what she did, followed the pack but i am not like that, unless it is imperative, i do not force myself to be in uncomfortable situations , this being one of them. do you think i am awful or do you emphathise with my predicament? a few up, stressed out, joxx


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## emilycaitlin

Hi,

It's a really hard situation for you to be in.  I think that you can't really understand secondary infertility until you are actually going through it.  Everyone thinks "they've got a child, why are they worrying?"  Also, when people get pregnant, they become so consumed in that, that often, they are totally blinkered to anything that others might be feeling.

Your friend probably just doesn't see how this is all making you feel, why don't you try writing a letter to her, and explain it.  If you want the friendship to carry on, this might be worth doing, the only other option is to sever all contact with her and end the friendship?


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## kelway

hi emilycaitlin, the whole thing is that i have, ages ago, severed the friendship, i backed away and have not seen or spoken to her for about 6 months. i couldn't bear it, every time i spoke to her (when she was pg), all she would do was moan about it, push came to shove when she was going on about how she was desperate to get it out, i couldn't bear it. i would be in floods of tears after talking to her. one day i told her in a really nice way just how hard it was for me to be around her. i was met with dealthy silence, sulking she was, made me go over and over why i couldn't be around her, that it wasn't personal, which it wasn't, not really, although she has made it so. she rang me up one day in a huff and had a go at me saying she felt i was punishing her for being pg and would then patronise me telling me she knew how i felt, how on earth could she know. she has no idea. i don't need 'friends' like that in my life right now. i am in a really bad space trying to come to terms with the fact that because of my age i more than likely will never be pg again. she should have respected my wishes and kept away instead of putting the boot in and texting me using my dd birthday as anexcuse to put me in a spot. i have not responded to text as have nothing to say. no point in writing a letter as she does not get it plus i feel too angry with her, why should i waste my fragile emotions again, trying to explain to her how hard it is for me to be around her and her new baby. it has gone way past the baby issue. my best friend whom i love dearly is pg, about 19 weeks. as hard as it is for me even seeing her or talking to her of her pregnancy i do it as i love her plus she knows how hard secondary infertility is as it took her 2 years to get pg and had alot of mc's along the way. i am full of clomid and every day i have to take and collect my dd from nursery and see literally ALL the other women alot younger than me either pg or pushing babies in buggys and it is killing me although fortunately i am not always this hurt by it but today i am having a bad day as the clomid is kicking in.
good luck to you. i noticed that your situation is similar to mine although you may be alot younger than me but still similar. most women who have a child our age have another already or one on the way. i feel they look at me with a certain look either thinking i am selfish denying mert' a sibling or feel pity for me. ho hum.


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## TC2

Jo

So sorry that your 'ex'friend is hurting you in this way.  Self preservation is a must - if she was a real friend she would understand and take it on your terms. Life is hard enough for you right now so don't let this make it harder or her make you feel guilty.

I don't have one single friend who has only one child.... and its a lonely place to be but sometimes its better to be a bit lonely than face being with those in the joyas land of 2/3/4 babies.  I was part of a really supportive baby group from when i had DS, 9 of us met every week (and they still do) but i just cant take it now most are on number three.  I ache to have another miracle in my arms.  Do whatever you need to to get through this, look after number one!

Teenax

PS My only consolation is that i am an only chld and i actually had a great childhood, so i know my son can still be happy witjout a sibling.  My pain is mainly for me!  :-


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## kelway

hi teena, thanks for your response. it always makes me feel sad reading of another women in same position. it is so hard isn't it and such a lonely feeling as trying to explain it to an outside, they just don't get it as we already have a child, they seem to think we are either being greedy or do not love our child enough which is so hurtful, like they have to remind us we already have one - i love my dd more than life itself, she is my world (& dh), i love her TOO much, that is the problem. all the best to you with your try this year, i really hope lady luck shines down on you too! all the best jox


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## honeyprincess

Hi Jo,

Just wanted to let you know..you are not alone, my sort of friend sounds like yours!
She wud moan at me bout not getting pregnant wen she was ttc no#2 ,only took her 3 months!!Now everytime she call/text it's just bout her pregnancy, then the other day i had nearly the same text as u did..'oh im so fed up of waiting now, just want her out' and I felt like saying well at least u only gotta wait a few weeks, we cant even start tx yet cuz their r no sperm donors!!! Ok so i didnt say that...but told her how i felt, just explained that it wasnt personal, but its really hard to cope right now, and that mayb 4 a sec she cud try 2 think how hard it is.


Anyway i agree with Teena..Do wat u need to to, If u feel u cant talk 2 her, then best thing to do is ignore her, as she doesnt seem to listen wen u tell her u dont wanna talk!

ill stop rambling now

Take care
Love Laura xxx


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## kelway

hi laura, sorry to read about your missed mc, i had one of those too a few years ago, rotten ain't it!!
anyway, it made me really angry to read what your friend has been saying to you, is she daft or what? what was her response when you said what you said to her? these women with more than one seem so smug although i am sure that is just mr green eyed monster in my heads idea, but it does feel like that. i don't feel so bad today. as for my ex f', i have not responded to her text as if i do whether i speak to her/mail or text her, it will as usual require me to explain, yet again, how hard it is for me to be around her and i cannot do that again, just the thought that there is STILL  a need for me to do that to her makes me so mad, so she can sweat it out being cross with me for being horrible by not acknowledging her text, she should have jolly well posted the package or mailed me saying how sorry she was for having been so insensitive in the past and can we start over - had she have done something along those lines i may well have succombed to her and given our friendship another try despite her having this beautiful new baby girl. best of luck to you. jox


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## honeyprincess

Hey Jo
Thanks 4 ur kind thoughts on my m/c sorry 2 hear it happened to u too, its truely awful.

Its a difficult situation this...your friend with some1, have normal convosations, but then they ttc, get pregnant and its like the r different, cuz they cant manage a normal convo without once moaning or talking bout being pregnant!!

Anyway after i came out n told her that its 2 hard to cope, she did say sorry but its still the same, but if she calls n im having a bad day ill just ignore her! if she doesnt like it..well tuff, she doesnt consider my feelings so y should i bother! 

If you wanna chat feel free 2 messege me!

Love Laura xx


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## sarylou

Jo I couldn't not post after reading this. 
I too cringe every day that I walk to school behind the "mothers" pushing babies #3/4 to collect child 5+6, stand at the gate waiting to go in whislt they all stand about smoking and laughing at how they are pg again and they only had sex once in that yr/they dont know which ones the dad etc.

I make myself feel ill doing that twice a day to collect my ds and i long to walk that road pushing my dd or ds in a buggy, to feel pg again and to try and complete my family. 

Im fed up of being asked "dont you want anymore or is one more than enough?" I feel i should walk about with a tshirt clearly labeling my womanly failure at being able to concieve. 

Sorry this post sounds really angry and jealous but i guess i am. Deep down. 

Maybe you could text her back and say, im curently going through a very difficult stage and i just cant deal with pgcy and babies espec newborns, if she is a true friend she will apologise and try and help you in anyway possible. 
Did she text it as a way of trying to get in touch with you again without thinking how it would make you feel in a ditzy kinda way. ?

loads of love sarah xxx


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## kelway

hi sarah, good to hear from you - shame we don't have children at the same school and we could walk together!! my response to someone who says ie how many children do you have and when i say 1 they say something like poor thing it is unfair for her etc - my response is kurt and brutal as i say quite blunty that their comment is hurtful as i am unable to have anymore - actually, i dream of saying this to someone as it will be an anger relief although probably a bit too harsh to a wellmeaning doo gooder but it will make me feel better. people assume if you have one you can physically have more and i do look alot younger than my 42 years. when i say it is unlikely i can have anymore they say, course you can which is equally annoying as how do they know, are they physcic? my bestfriend came over today and is my age and showing, about 19 weeks pg but as i love her dearly plus she has been through many mc's to get pg again with No. 2 i was fine around her totally although had the odd moment of longing when i noticed her growing lump. as for the so called friend (in answer to your comment about why don't i text her), this is the annoying thing as i have both texted her AND had more than one very long phone call attempting to get into her head that it is too hard for me to be around her, that is why i am so annoyed that she texted me. i think she did is more to put the boot in as she is angry with me for (as she sees it) 'shelving' her; if she had texted me saying something like i know it is hard for you but i miss your or something softer, then i would have called her. she is quite a cold person/quite hard plus she does tend to always look at things in how they affect her. the school my dd goes to (nursery) has a mixture of young types with children plus the posher older housewifey types, they are actually the worst, they seem to have been lucky in getting married etc all so much younger than me, alot seem to have three children and yet still probably only mid 30's, such a shame i didn't/couldn't ttc until i was late 30's, i am so lucky to have one at all, i know that. i have had my 5 clomid pills for this month and seem to take forgranted that i won't get pg, not sure if that is good or not; the thought of the physical effort is the worst, i don't exactly have the highest sex drive in the world, never mind. sorry to go on (hormones as usual). good luck to you too. nice to know i am not the only one with one child finding the school run such a nightmare. it is watching the growing bumps that i find the hardest and then them cradling their newborns with all the fishwives fussing round them after that breaks me. many a tear shed on the way home. problem is that so many people know i have been trying for a few years that some come up to me with such a sad look on their face and ask me if i am still trying etc, if only i had kept my mouth shut which is the norm', i mean, how many people tell everyone they are trying. 
joxx


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## emilycaitlin

I told people we are ttc, and regret it a bit now, as you try to stop thinking about it, then people come and ask if its worked yet!!  However, it's just as frustrating when people who don't know, say "time for another one".  You just feel like screaming!!!!


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## SUSZY

Dear Girls  Jo (again) we are the same age!  Sarylou (again)  Laura and Teena
As ever I feel like I have come home as I feel all of what you do (know I have seen some of you on other threads but do think we all have so much in common).  The school run is what is killing me more than anything at the moment and if I can find an excuse for my mum to get him I do because I hate it, I see all the other mums with their little ones who laughing and chatting and walking up the road, going out to play barns, going swimming, inviting each other round for coffee, a close friend I have had for five years and my ds used to be very close to her dd is virtually ignoring me outside school and is forging new friendships with people who are new to school and the area and its so hurtful. My old groups meet up at playbarns and don't give a thought to how I am feeling and I feel so left out and isolated and cannot believe that people cannot realise how hard it is.  Like you I have been involved in lots of mums and tots groups anetanal groups, NCT groups and have had to sit and endure each group talk about trying for their second ones, getting pg and then having them (each of my four groups) and some are now onto their third and these are ones who have have a m/c and tried for a year to conceive as well.  Others said they wanted to wait until their children were older 3 or 4 and then complained when it took a few months and all the time I have sat and watched and waited (having go pg twice and had silent m/c) has made it harder but there has not been a dickie bird for three years since.  It amazes how inconsiderate supposed so called friends are but when we get angry and upset think we are only hurting ourselves but sometimes like now I can think of nothing else and it ruins everything else around me and I dread the mornings and I dread the pick up time.  I try to make new friends with some who have both kids at school but they seem to be a bit distant, I don't want to appear needy or desparate but sometimes that is how I feel.  I  feel so much like you do and I so wish we all went to the same school and we could wait outside and walk down the road together as a pack.  perhaps what we should do which is what I told my ds the first day of school is say when he misses me that I am in his heart and he is in mine, perhaps tomorrow (well probably the day after when you read this) lets imagine we are in each others hearts making each other stronger and comfort each other in the fact that there are a few of us out there that understand what its like to stand outside school getting our only child desparately wanting another and try and ignore all the smug inconsiderate ones around us.
Please take care girls and give yourselves a big hug from me


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## kelway

oh suszy, i felt for you, it made me feel so sad reading what you said almost forgetting that what you experience is exactly how i feel too, the isolation, that is why it is so good there is a secondary infertility thread here. i think you beat yourself up so much though, more than me, i don't take things as personally i don't think; why do you think these women are distant to you deliberately?/leaving you out; and why do you think that that little girl is now avoiding you? i am not sure of the connection. my mistake is being very open and now i feel everyone sees me as poor jo, the one desperately trying to have another but is too old, they all know and i can certainly see pity in their faces but it only bothers me if, one particular lady, she's very nice, comes up to me (she collects her child from the same school, they are alot older), and looks at me with her sad expression, head tilted and asks me if i am pg yet, GO AWAY, i want to scream, you would bl**dy well know if i was, everyone would, people in japan would know if i was as i would scream so loudly. i hate the pitiful looks but that is totally my fault as it is therapy for me to have been so open about it. i do a market on sunday and the area in london where i do it is NAPPY VALLEY, very middle class, full of always older (ex professionals) women with HUGE bellys and usually more than one. yesterday was the pits as there were alot of very heavily pg women who looked mid 40's, they were all incredibly so smug looking, it made me feel sick (in nan upset way, not an angry way). i so wish your son went to my dd's school as i hate being on my own. i am obsessive about trying to spot women with one child who look older (the women, not the child) but it is very rare. the usual thing that happens when in waitrose is that i see an older  women with one child, get excited as it makes me feel less odd and then when she turns sideways (it happens so often) she has this huge bump outfront, the amount of times i have cried walking around waitrose is a joke. i am on my second dose of clomid and think i am wasting my time but will do another couple of months. i have acupuncture today too and never enjoy going, such an effort and the bloke that does it is rather odd so i don't feel hugely comfortable with him but he is supposedly good so i will stick with it. sorry to type such a long message but you are not alone even though it does feel like it. joxxx


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## sarylou

Jo i too wished we lived nearer and we'd give them what for at the school gates. I now have it so that i meet and drop ds off down the road from the school as i just cant face it. Where i live its chav central so there is always a new young mum or pgnant with child 4 by dad 4 iyswim. 
I know i was a teen mum also but now i thank god as that may of been my only chance at mother hood and when i think that i just shake and cry. Such a horrible thought my only chance. 

No one knows we are ttc, i just cant get the words out when people ask if we want kids. I normally just shrug my shoulders and say no i work to much or too big an age gap for it now and they look at you as if your heart less but i just cant let anyone else in on this. Its too personal. 

I have been told that if im oving on these 2 cycles they have monitored thats it from the nhs. Im not sure how im going to handle that when i go in. DP says he doesnt need children to feel completed and i feel so guilty for wanting children if he can go through life without having his own, seeing it on scans, feeling it kick, the birth everything. But then they are detatched we have the hormones, the af, the ovaries screaming at us daily. 
Jo can i ask are you currently private or nhs you can pm me it if you want. I need to sort out options and not delude myself anymore. I think with the 2 yr mark approaching also im getting jumpy. 

So glad to have you ladies for support. xxxxx


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## kelway

you know what i did today, madness - i was walking down the road having dropped dd off at afternoon nursery when i saw a way up ahead a lady who has a dd m's age but has just given birth to the most beautiful baby girl, anyway, she knows i am desperate for another (my big mouth struck again at some point) and i just COULDN'T face having to stop and coo expectedly over her newborn which i would have had to have done as i was about to walk right past so i had a brainwave, ANYTHING not to have to do that as not in a strong mood - i pretended to be on a mobile phone conversation - GENIUS, i walked past pretending to be in deep conversation about tonights supper!! i just couldn't face it - she was fiddling getting the  baby out of the bugger, i remember how long that sort of thing takes with a new baby so even though i had been a way up the road i knew she would still be fiddling when i walked past, so pleased i came up with that. honestly, the lengths we go to all because we want another one just like them, lucky old beans. joxxx


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## kelway

hi again sarylou, just read your thread - do you mind being a nosey person that i am how old you are? i have put a note down in big letters to remind me to watch the heavily adertised ivf panorama prog tonight (not that i want ivf, just interested). in answer to your question, anything i am doing i will ahve to pay for although other than the odd scan i ain't really doing anything that costs other than a once every two weeks of acupuncture. may have a desperate pop mid year at iui which i think costs around £1000. at my age toppled with the area i live in (my local hospital is a local hell hole) i doubt they could afford to give anyone free ivf let alone me whilst a friend same age in a nice affluent area had all meds paid for with first ivf baby and now trying for second and despite age STILL got meds paid for, lucky i don't want ivf otherwise i would be really upset about it. i think this lottery business re health care stinks - it should be the same rule for everyone (i don't include me in that though, i accept at my age i shouldn't really be given funds for ivf but when it comes to cancer meds etc everyone should get whatever they need), all part of labour governments charm, i am SOOO anti labour but that is another story. joxx


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## SUSZY

Dear Jo and Sarylou
Its so nice to have found this thread because we can tell each other about our school experiences .
I dropped of this am ok and spoke directly to the one friend who I feel has not bothered and told her how much my life had changed and had not seen her for ages could they come around to play sometime (she has a nearly 2 year old as well) so might get a few things of my chest to her,because we used to see a lot of each other and the kids and now despite them going to the same school I hardly ever talk to her (as she stands at a different side of the playground and talks to different ones which upsets me sometimes)
anyway on the way out I asked another little girl to play (my ds has always like playing with girls) so having them around on Wed but once again she has another little one.  I got my mum to do the pick up so had a very long day at the gym and went to a new Asda so feel quite good.  Some days are worse than others and sometimes I just want to come home and mope and others not.  In an ideal world there would be a few of us at school with one child and we could compare notes but perhaps the internet will do.
My tx is private and think if you are over 40 and have one child you have to pay (this might change if one of the future parents doesn't have any but not sure) the clommid was free but the IUI was 750 - 550 for scans and he rest for meds,ivf in Liverpool is 3500 and at the ARGC place in London heard different things from 6K to 10K and by now you have probably seen the film. I think ed abroad costs about 5500K as well so none of its cheap but I agree and think we should have some contribution to the costs.
anyway girls I am so glad I found you (I know sarylou sometimes posts on nov new) but its nice just to be able to compare notes.  I do think I take things too personally and have always done and people are probably just too busy but sometimes a phone call, smile or hug would be nice.
Kelway that women in the playground sounds so annoying and I am the same as you I have been too open and honest with so many people that they come up to me and say something and I have forgotten I said anything to them or perhaps like now they are all avoiding me!!!  As you say it is good therapy to be open and honest but think if I had found this earlier perhaps I would not have said so much to them.  I am the same as you at being obsessive about looking out for women with one kid as well - funny how we are all doing the same things.  Sorry to make you feel sad but like you say we are going through the same stuff and its nice to have finally met people that really do understand
anyway girls until tomorrow - take lots of care and look after yourselves
susie


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## honeyprincess

Morning girls,

Hope the school run wasnt 2 bad 4 u all this morning, I am awful, I live 5 doors aways from the school but always late taking dd in....that way i dont c any other mums! I usually time it well picking her up 2, I will go wen they are coming out, grap her n get out as quick as poss!

Arrgh nhs postcode lottery...in our area 2 qualify 4 fertility treatment u must be between 36-39 and have NO children, even from previous partners....we cried our hearts out wen we got told this few days b4 xmas!
Its just not fair...the only way we can have a child together is by using donor sperm so our tx will cost around £1000 'a go', we are not the richest of people, i have debt already so this is just awful, but my DP parents will prob help with costs.

This just makes me so angry inside that there r people who accitently get preg by diff dads and those dads dont care bout the kids, but we so desperatly want a child together and we cant even try, we cant say 'lets go 2 bed n make a baby'.

Makes it worse as my dd dads is a waste of space, puts himself 1st, doesnt pay maintenance, wud rather go 2 pub or spend it on his 5 dogs! But my DP is a brill step-dad to my DD,hes the one who buys her school uniform,shoes, food and gets up in night wen shes crying, and it breaks my heart to know he will never father his own child...  but my ex still gets the privilege to be called 'daddy' !!


Anyway sorry for ranting!

Lots of love 
Laura xxxxx


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## kelway

hi laura, aah, you sound really down today, sorry about that. i do exactly what you do when it comes to collecting mert from nursery, i get there last and if early, i sit on the wall nearby rather than stand listening to all the fishwives, funny, i am more than likely the oldest ma there and yet they all seem to dull and boring/old women, probably more my envy of their youth and fertile inners; they probably think i am a snob (i am and i'm not) but i just can't be bothered to stand and listen to their cooing the lastest new arrival or coo over one of their cute toddlers running around. fortunately for you you are nice and young so you ahve time, point being, could you not save up some money so you can get some sperm from abroad at some point in the future? i saw my dr this morning about something else and casually at the end of my appointment mentioned did she have my clomid cd21 bloods back, turns out that i may not have ov'd even on bloomin' clomid so i am having to pay to see gyni next week and see if i need my dose doubled which i am guessing will make me feel doubly awful!! i think you will have a chance of another baby laura, because of your age toppled with the fact that you have had a baby before, i think you will get your hands on some sperm from a donor at some point, whether it be on an nhs waiting list or save up and get some privately, i think it is just the possible wait that will be hard but i do think it will happen for you!!
joxx


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## sarylou

Jo I am 25-well 26 on the 27th. lol 25, 26 and 27!!   Your not nosely lol ask anything you want i normally do pmsl. 
My gp has said they wont refer me to anyone until we have been ttc 2 yrs thats our local guidelines and im only seeing this consultant as i had gynae pains for 12months solid and they thought it was my PID hence my lap and then I had a cyst burst in aug which landed me in hosp over night and she wanted to check up on me 3 months down the line and ordered these tests so i dont know in may wether to go back to gp and push for more tests-not sure what else is left really to check. Or just leave it and hope that one day our dream will come true. Our local pct wont pay for anything on the nhs if either partner has children-thats shocking really. 

Jo I do sense a lot from your posts that you think you are too old to become a mother again. I was wondering has a medical person told you your too old or is this your personal opinion. I just wanted to say you are not too old hun, Just wanted to give you a bit of a pick up and boost as you punish yourself so much with it. xxxx  

Suszy yes this thread is great-dotn get me wrong i love the nov one too but here we can express our pain at secondary without upsetting others who are ttc their first.
I hope tomorrow goes ok hun with the girl and baby coming round.dont punish yourself either, I too try and confront my fear of babies and it hurts so much. 

Laura nice to meet you also hun xxxx I too hear what you are saying about the postcode lottery and Im so sorry to hear the situation you are in- i know you dont want sympathy but i genuinly mean it. 
My sons dad hasnt seen him for over 18months and doesnt pay-never has. And i think why should he also be called a dad? I wont go into details about our relationship or break up but lets just say he doesnt deserve that name. Just wanted to give you huge hugs hun xxxxx

Hope your all ok today. I have terrible cramps going on not sure why i stopped bleeding cd4 and on cd7 at the mo. Think it was through a bit too much bd! Do any of you suffer with pains after sex? I do always have and some times i feel sick during sex it gets that bad! The gp just shrugged when i told her that and said not sure what that means !!! usless woman!
Love to you all and dotn forget to go to the hug thread and have a squeeze. xxxxxx


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## emilycaitlin

I sometimes get pain where it's like my uterus is really tender, don't know if that's the same as you?


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## kelway

sarylou, sorry, something you said made me laugh - you said about sometimes you feel sick during sex, well i was thinking blimey, sometimes i feel sick BEFORE LOL...........i don't exactly have a high sex drive so for me to have to constantly have sex for the first say 2/3 weeks is a bit of a downer, makes me feel guilty but what can you do!
i too think it is really important to have a separate thread for women ttc No. 2 as i remember finding it hard reading moans and gripes from women who already had one when i still didn't and it used to be rather hard at times to read. as hard emotionally it may be for us lot it is in my opinin a million times worse for them. we are blessed in knowing the (sorry to be so bleuch) beauty of being a mum, the joy and love so it is different for us.
i find gps very frustrating at times, mine is a lovely lady but she does at times tend to sit on the fence. she is one of the people who tells me i am too old (in answer to your previous question). since i hit 41 (the baby situation is probably behind it) i feel as if i am going through some midlife crisis - i have always lived my life alot younger than my years and look it too; this not being able to get pg due to age related reasons has hit me BIG time - i feel so old even though i don't look it and it is hard. i think that taking intou account of your young age your dr is wrong to think you should have been ttc for 2 years. the annoying thing is that if you have money then BAM, you can go private and thus if money is no object you can have any appointment you want with a fertility hospital or gyni but it is the bloomin' funds - i have to fork out £100 next tuesday to see again the gyni and ask him if he thinks i should go on a higher dose due to my 25 prog' reading although i still don't know if that was done bang on 7days past ov although if i didn't ov them how the hell do i know what day to get the c d'21' blood test done come to think of it - the whole thing drives me nuts. you know, today when i picked mert up from nursery i can't believe just how many heavily pg mums have just enrolled their darn kids there - i counted at least 6, SIX, that means i have to watch 6 bellies getting bigger and then their parading around their newborns after listening to all the other mother hens clucking around after - i seem to be permanently hidden behind the wall, gorrrd knows what they must think of me but then again, do i care? naah, not really. you know, if you live in central london there is (or used to be anyway) a non private 'ladies' clinic that you could go to for advice re tummy cramps, it was called the margaret pyke clinic, i used to work in central london and went there a few times but i think you have to live in london, it may not exist anymore? 
going back to you asking why i think i am so old - been ttc for 2 years when i conceived twice prior to this immediately both times, have raised fsh, no cm, and let's face it, 42 is old to be trying, i think alot of women do get pg in their 40's (lucky sods) but most struggle - i have two friends, same age, struggling to get pg with their second. i have such an issue with age which stinks really as i used to be rather proud of my age, now i seem to fear death and old age (sorry to be so morbid), i have a deep rooted fear of death so all this has i think made me more away of my mortality.
gee, i do tend to type long mails, sorry - just enjoying myself.
xx


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## sarylou

Tis me again. 
Hello, Jo yes i feel sick during and after sex and to be honest that has really made me lose my sex drive and we've gone from happy loved up couple to few and far between when we have to kinda sex. It sucks but what can you do?

Yes it does seem if you have money that you can get better treatment almost which sucks but again what can you do. 
When i needed a scan for my cysts last yr the nhs wait was up to 8 weeks and i called bupa and had it done the _next day_ at the _same hosp by the same dept_ as if i had waited but it cost us £200!! Talk about madness.

Hope you all well ladies. xxxx


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## kelway

hi sarylou, i was meaning to ask you, it must have been agony when your cyst ruptured? you know, i laugh alot during bding and i talk alot about rubbish and then that makes me laugh more as i imagine if anyone could hear us, not exactly romantic. i feel guilty sometimes as dh is very highly sexed and he married me, poor sod although he seems to think i am gd in bd but i've no idea why, still, i have to make an effort, but that is exactly what it is although i love him madly and do fancy him, just lazy sexually, always have been i suppose so not ideal when ttc. right in the middle of having to try now (not literally), next few days although beginning to wonder why i am bothering. i always pay to go private re ladies stuff (no, i'm not rich i just prioritise money and to me this is important) as you have said, you have to wait AGES on the nhs plus you (as awful as it is) seem to get treated better (in my experience) when you have paid for it which is really bad. i had pre-cancerous cervical cells when i was in my mid to late teens and had to have (among other things) lazer treatment - the whole thing was done on the nhs and i remember the long waits (months) imbetween each appointment etc, i think it is worth saving up and getting it done privately as the whole lot can be done within a week or so. when i had a missed miscarriage around 5 years ago my local hospital couldn't give me a d&c as (quote) had no beds (can you believe it, they told me to go away and see if i miscarry naturally, i was about 9 wks pg so it would have been far more than a normal period) but thank the lord i had private health cover which it turned out covered a d&c (as i was not miscarrying naturally) so i had a d&c the next day - what about the poor sods who don't have the facility to go private, fancy turning women away and expecting them to walk around carrying out normal daily routines knowing they have a 'non baby' inside them, enough to make you lose your mind. anyway, enough miserable stuff. i feel quite upbeat as i have put some things on ebay to sell and three of them have bids!! i think i need all the money i can get at the moment, with all these scans and gyni appointments!
joxx


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## SUSZY

Dear Kelway and Sarylou
sorry did not post on here yesterday but did a long one on nn that Sarylou saw.
Kelway when you write it could be doing it because I feel exactly the same as you on so many subjects, low sex drive and having do it at certain times after so many years is really ******* me off.  the whole age thing is the same I have always looked and acted younger - not so good when you are a teen or in your early 20s but now its great being mistaken for younger but the whole IF thing has made me feel so old and when all you hear and read is that 40 is too old to have a baby thats what one believes.  its so frustrating and does not help ones mind set.  i also get very tired and think perhaps I could not cope with another pg.  all very hard. at least you know a couple of people in the same situ - most of my friends in their 40s had kids years and years ago and any new friends just managed to slip on in before they wre 40 which I would have done had my first m/c not turned out that way.  I get so frustrated and fed up and it really does get to me at times.
the whole thing about private is a huge problem as i am sure we would have done ivf if it were not for the money and would go ahead tomorrow if we did not have to pay for it but when they are talking about 3.5k or 6k in london or more then its a lot of money.
this is such a good thread for voicing off our stuff and I quite agree feel more at home complaining about that here.  i know we are so lucky to have the one we have but so want another.  so sorry you have to see so many at your nursery six is a lot.  we have had two births in the rec class this past 2 months so hopefully as they all have two ór more there won't be any for a while.
still finding it hard to do the school run more the fact that everyone seems to be getting on much better than me and that as I have said before some older friends don't bother talking to me in the playgroud when I hardly seem them atall and they chat to others that they see more.  i had made one new friend and we seemed to have stuff in common but she has gone funny on me too, not sure if its just the vibes i am giving off at the moment but no one seems to want to know me and am feeling sorry for myself.
anyway girls will sign off now - look after yourselves girls and take care
love
susie
hope the above makes sense


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## kelway

susie, susie, you are really beating yourself up - are you sure that these people don't want to talk to you? you may well be completely wrong here - i would say that if you genuinely did want to be friends with them them go for it; i find myself in a similar (yet again!) position ie i watch these fishwives talking and part of me feels left out and alienated but then i think to myself, do i really want to befriend these women and the answer is always the same....NO. i am and have been most of my adult life a loner and prefer to do most things on my own and do not like regular female company but do enjoy it occasionally. i automatically feel different from them as i only have one child and they (near enough all) have two or more so i feel i guess that to them i may look selfish and an outsider.  i am going through one of my awful hypercondriac moods at the moment - came across about a month ago a non painful/moveable lump under one arm in the armpit, went to see my dr who said it was a gland (she thorough checked my breasts) and said not to worry about it but i still am. i am hormoned up to the hill on clomid and cannot shake it off - been on the net' for the last hour and keep seeing the word cancer come up in connection to armpit glands, freaked me out. thought i would go back to see dr in ie a month if still there, she did say to go back, i think that has freaked me out as she said it was to reassure me but i get worried that she is using that as an excuse not to worry me as she really wants to keep an eye on the lump herself? as if i haven't got enough on my mind. i live in a very suburban area and thus it has always been heavily populated by married women with lots of children. also, becuase mert is at nursery, all the mothers are young and of child bearing age; if mert was say in the juniors, most of the mothers i see collecting their children from there are closer to my age and at that point when they wouldn't DREAM of having another thus i wouldn't have to see pg tummys all the time. i so long to go through the pregnancy/early baby thing again and really don't think i will although i have not given up and do still have moments of feeling optimistic. hope you do too?? joxx


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## SUSZY

Dear Jo
Sorry to hear about the lump under your arm I am sure if she were really worried she would have referred you or tested it but why don't you go back again sooner than a month to put your mind at rest.  try not to worry easier said than done though.
I know what you mean about so longing for the pg and early baby stage and part of me thinks it will happen and part of me not.  I also think we would get dog tired with both but still think I have it in me.
Feel bit better today, always do when don't go to school and hear and see stuff.
Beginning to think I am a bit of  a loner too and do enjoy my own company but do like meeting up for coffee and chats too, was always more for boys than girls and have changed over the last 10/15 years and do know lots of women but its that old chestnut of who exactly is ones friend because when the chips are down they all seem to dissappear.anyway at least making new ones onhere
take care
susie


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## kelway

hi susie, i know what you mean about feeling better  when you don't have to go near the school - at home i am safe in my own little world, just me mert and dh; as long as i can stear clear from waitrose and nursery etc i am happy. i have sadly noticed that i no longer do certain things with mert that i used to ie got to starbucks or waitrose cafe - we would go and sit for about an hour and i loved it - mert would sit either next to me or on my lap and we would draw or read etc but i admit to myself that i avoid these places as always inhabited with women grouping together either pg or with babies; i used to go with mert all throughout her babyhood to such places and now in those situations i find myself watching on longing sadly so i do not go which is really sad, i must try and do these things again with mert, not that she is missing out, more i am missing out on something i used to enjoy. i definately exist within a sad world, it follows me around in my subconscious this longing for another child. i have such love for mert, every night when she is asleep during the evening i pop into her room at least once and sit there stroking her forehead and kiss her, she is such a dear beautiful blessing who has made my life so special and complete, it is greed really that makes me want another, greed and other selfish reasons............still can't help it. better dash, i am getting all deep and meaningful. xx


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## kelway

hi again susie, i remember what i was going to say but forget, i know i must be crazy in wanting another (something you had said in your last mail which made me think of this) as i know it is so comfortable and manageable as it is, just the three of us plus i would not be able to do my antique market for a good few years, bye bye watching tv and having morning snoozes etc etc but yet i STILL long for another, i must be mad but no amount of reasoning dulls the longing, us females, we are such complicated stubborn beings aren't we!! night againx


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## sarylou

afternoon ladies, I am hoping we are all surviving the school runs. I didn't go to ds school Assembly this morning as i couldn't handle the other children's siblings a pg parents in the same hall as me-poor ds will be cross with me when i see him. 

still haven't had sex yet since the other day so thats another cycle Ive missed out and messed up on.   
So cross with myself. 

Jo my cyst was horrendous yet has such a funny story behind it. 
I had been having pains in my stomach for 11 months almost for which they scanned-at a cost to us and they didn't see anything appart from chocolate cysts. 
This was OK until one morning 2 days before we went off on hols, we were umm having sex   and i felt something just go pop and the pain-labour was nicer than that, doubled up throwing up and not able to move. DP took me to a+e after an hour of this and I had 4 people check up there and poke and prod-l was still crying this whole time. I ended up refusing the next person that asked to check as it hurt so much and a scan reveled that my cyst had ruptured and filled my womb and surrounding area with blood hence the pain. 
HOWEVER i had been booked in for a wax of legs and bikini area the following day so i had the hairest legs and bits known to man the whole time i was there being examined naked!!! OMG did i die of embarrassment pmsl.


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## kelway

blimey saraylou, i can't believe with all that pain you were still aware of how hairy you were!! i remember when i was due to give bith trying to shave my legs and bikini area............

on a sad note, school run i am dealing with as i have no choice despite the fact that there are more pg women their with toddlers than you can imagine but i have to get used to that. the thing i am finding really hard is my best friend who i rarely see (she is my age and 18 wks pg) seems to suddenly be wanting to spend time with me. i can handle being around her but she seems to have forgotten the basic daily pain/avoidence of having secondary infertility (it took her a few years plus many mc's to get pg second time) - she wanted me to go with her to this park but i was straight with her and told her i am in too much pain right now full on this medication (i use that as a bit of an excuse) and that i cannot face it as this park is FULL of 'professional mothers' (women in 40's who delayed having kids till' later) - i am so envious of these fertile women, my age but knocking them out with what appears to be such ease. she said it should give me hope but i said it is way past that i have have been trying for two years and with my high fsh and not having had an mc/not got pg at all having twice got pg immediately when mid 30's that i feel i am more one of those statistics that the daily mail talk of, women who have left it too late, i just cannot bear it. i can tell she is disappointed but that she wouldn't dare say anything as she does know how i feel. she is so lucky. she is disappointed as she thinks she is having a boy and really wanted a girl... i'd be happy with either. she already has a boy.
i wish i could turn that darn longing off. it stinks.
i wish i didn't want another - i must be crazy as i know it would be so hard, no more indepenance, lack of sleep, etc but i just do.
sorry to go on, very miserable
xx


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## honeyprincess

Hey Girls

Just a quickie as i have 2 cook dinner early as we r visiting family this evening!

Sarylou...OMG That sounds soooooo painful, hope that doesnt happen 2 u again do u still have any cysts? But Im sorry i did laugh about the your hairy problem! Dont be cross at ur self cuz u missed a cycle....was u worried cuz it was painful last time?

Jo......Hun u sound so down 2day.......u need a  ! i know wat u mean bout turning off the longing 4 another child....dont u wish cud not think about it 4 just 1 day, I cant stop myself and its not easy is it, wen every1 else seems 2 b pregnant!


My not so sensitive friend is having her baby 2nd feb (c-sec) so im kinda trying to deal with that right now!

Hope every1 else is well.......


STAY POSITIVE!!!! 

   

Lots of Love
Laura xxxx


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## sarylou

lAURA AND jO oppps caps lol!
Hugs to you both xxx
I too wish i could turn off that switch but i have had it for so long i dont think it will go away. Im not even sure if 1 more baby will turn it off if you know what i mean. Will i want more?
Ever since jordan turned 2 and i had my first mc i wanted another. 
We stopped using protection and apart from the mc a yr later nothing since then and that was 2001. We tried in total 4 yrs before we split up and 6 months later i got with dp. 
Jordan turns 9 this yr and it hits me at each birthday that another yr has gone by without me getting pg. 

susz I hope your alright hunni


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## kelway

hi sarylou & laura (& anyone else looking in) - just to give hugs and bubbles, talking of bubbles, what is this bubble thing - how do you send them? i find that selling my things off on ebay helps (odd i know) as a distraction as i really enjoy it so right now dh is upstairs playing at photographer (he has a better camera than me and his pictures look good) so instead of going out spending lots of money to cheer myself up i sell all my things instead!! (strange lady that i am) - so hugs all round and bubbles (not that i know how to send them) - a mid cycle (that's a laugh) joxx


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## TC2

Hi All... Have been checking in on your posts and just wanted to say how normal i now feel.  I have a DS whos 3 and a half, whos our naturally conceived miracle (were told couldnt have without treatment but wow he appeared.)  Now more desperate for number two than i ever was for number one.    I work full tme so dont have quite the same school run problems but have kind of lost all my friends with Kiddies as they and I just arent comfortable together now,  they stopped asking when number two was coming along after i got fed up one day and told them outright that we do really want more (i think they thought i was professional who only wanted a token child) and now two are on their third/fourth and its just too hard.  To most peole who ask i just say we are waiting till DS is at school.  he will be there in sept so now i am sure they will all start again.  We are starting our first ICSI cycle on 27th Jan, yep we decided to go whole hog and remortgage to give it a try... am really praying this will work for us and i am really not prepared to accept that we will only have one.

Jo/Suszy - Wanted to add too that i have a friend who took 5 years to conceive her first at 38 and thought she wouldnt have a second, but five years on at 43 she just had her second DS, so i dont think it is ever cast in stone, she had decided she was too old but got her dearest wish - i hope you do too.

My Ds has been doing 'babies' as a topic at his preschool (three in his clas are soon to have siblings) so now i am getting it from him too - what do you say to a three year old who wants a baby sister?  he seems to have it all planned and is at this juncture keen to share his room and toys (ha ha i hope he gets to experience the reality as payback for the torture he is putting me through now, i am sure he wont be as welcoming if we finally get our dream of a new addition!)

Do any of you still feel guilt y about wanting another?  Because we never expected one i am a bit shocked still about how desperate i feel for another and am a bit embarrassed by it frankly!  I feel so bad for everyone who hasn't got the joy we have of one and do really struggle with this.

Hope you all have a great weekend.

Teenax


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## kelway

hi teena, thanks for your encouraging words. as for guilt, i have never felt guilty about wanting more, i just accept it as a natural feeling although totally misunderstood by outsiders who don't get it and see that if you have one then how can you be sad about not getting another one - i too am guilty for this before i experienced it. on a down day i think i am getting bad karma for being too cocky thinking i was super fertile which i had been originally as got pg twice immediately, then again, that could have been coincidence as my mother thinks, she thinks it was luck and that i only jsut got in through the back door. do you mind me asking you how old you are? i am obsessing about age right now. thanks for telling me what you did about your friend. if i see or hear of a women in 40's being pg or having been so i get really jealous however if i hear of a women in their 40's getting pg suddenly when been trying for ages then that does make me feel positive, gives me hope. you are sooooooooooooo lucky you don't have to do the school run, it is so incredibly hard. i was adamant up until mert was nearly 2 that i ididn't want another, it was never something that i gave any real thought to but the pull when it does hit is so hard. i was crying last night watching a lady in a tv drama cradle lovingly whilst lying in her bed next to her baby and it made me cry to think i  won'[t go through that joy again. you are right, in knowing what we know we are so incredibly blessed to have a beautiful child - mert' brightens up an already bright loving home on a daily basis and when the three of us are lying/sitting on our bed saturday morning laughing and mucking around/when she turns the radio on to classic fm and proceeds to do ballet by the side of our bed as a kind of show for me & dh  i know how incredibly lucky we are and all the love we have, to imagine life without that is to not be alive really.
fingers crossed to you teena
joxx


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## TC2

Hi Jo

Im 'merely' 35 and oh so grateful that we didnt wait to get tested as i would have fallen into the over 36's and not got any help with our treatment under our local hosp 'rules'.  DH is 44.  We are doing our ICSI at Bourn Hall, but as i live in the Channel isles its called Satellite IVF in that our local hospital has an 'Assisted Reproduction Unit' and we get all our bloods/drugs/scans etc done here.  Its getting a bit more real now as its a week today i start my drugs!  

I know i am lucky i don't do the school run bit, i did have to endure swimming and Gym Tots last week and that was bad enough, i was the only one without another child at both.  A couple of my work colleagues know and i now find them catching a funny look at me when i am treating some of the newborns (maybe i am parnoid) and probably feeling sorry for me....  I am not yet feeling so sorry for me as i still have some hope.  I think if treatment doesnt work it will hit both of us very hard and we will just have to face that reality then.

Hope you are all having a good weekend.

Teenax


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## SUSZY

Dear Girls  (welcome to Teena and Honeyprincess)
Sorry not been on here for a day or two or replied to you Kelway but we went of power about 2pm on Thursday 18th and were off until 11am this morning and I have been out all day so first time been able to catch up now.  The wind on Thursday was so scary, I went into the garden (we live in a barn conversion and have a wonderful view but there is nothing to break the wind) and it was really blowy - I went to put the lid on something that had blown over to next doors - a heavy umbrella stand - came in the house and the next thing look out of the window to see that half the shed roof at the bottom of the garden had blown 90 foot up the garden and something that was very heavy had blown six foot anyway it was really horrible and then the power went off.  As we are quite remote we are always last on the list to be put back on and it was weird not having electricity but quite a good lesson for my ds, we are lucky in the fact we have a wood burning stove for heat in the lounge and gas rings so we could get buy but my dh came home with a generator last night so we are prepared for the next time.  
As ever girls we all feel the same and its so nice that we have each other - feel a bit guilty because seem to be posting on here more than nov newbies at the moment - I kept ds off school on Wednesday and Friday as he has a bit of a sore throat so I had a nice couple of days in with him.  Always feel better when not near the school but not so much for the pg reasons but the old friendship/left out ones that am feeling more and more but hopefully will get better.
Thanks Teena for telling us that story about your friend getting pg at 43 (did she do much tx in between) I am not sure how it happened that my ds is so knowledegable about fertility issues but I now tell him that mummys eggs are old and we might be borrwing someone elses, he has listened to and been to some appointments and I have always been open and honest and said that we go to hospital to help mummy have a baby - he has seen me sad and really wants a baby brother or sister but seems to accept that we are trying our hardest.  I think a lot of what he knows is from what he has heard me talking about but sometimes got it confused as last Summer when I was doing the acupunture and my friend (who hard speaks to me now!) had him he shouted across the street to someone we knew from swimming etc that Mummy was having eggs put in her tummy so maybe he knew then something that I did not!!!!!!  All I can say is try and explain it in a simple way as its amazing what they pick up and understand - he was asking me the other day how babies get into tummys and I said mummy has an egg and needs something from daddy and will probably work on that over the years.  Good luck- I would just tell him that Mummy and Daddy are trying very hard but sometimes it takes a bit longer and that although you all really want another baby you really love them too.  Also Teena I know what its like at all those groups Rhytmn Time, Forest Tots, Gym Tots, swimming etc and I always used to look longingly at the others but you know what I would go back there tomorrow with just one as when they are at school you have to find other things to do and although part of me looked forward to all that freedom a bit of both would be the best.
Like you say Kelway you just love them so very much and I am always hugging and kissing and loving him and its amazing how responsive they are and you know what if we would not have had such lovely times with them if we had had to share them.
Sarylou - so wish we could turn off that longing for another one but we just cannot and don't think any of us should feel guilty for wanting another.
anyway girls its late and will sign off now, hope the above makes sense and take lots of care
love to you all
susie


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## kelway

hi susie, you seem so sensitive towards what the others may or may not be thinking about you, possibly alot if not all of it is in your head? i get paranoid at times that i am thought of as 'poor old jo' plus/or oh, keep away from her as a liability (as i talk openly about my fertility problems and it might embarass people but mostly i don't gibe a sh*t what people think, i am a loner and happy that way. if you feel you need friends then go and talk to these women or try befriending new neutral ones, that might be a good idea.

teena - are you a nurse? (just being nosey).

so tired, just got back from my weekly stint at the market. joxx


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## TC2

Hi All

Susie -  Thanks for your post, I think you are right that its best to be honest with children about  things but i find it hard not to get upset about it and i dont like to be upset in front of him, hes going to be coming with us to Bourn Hall when we go and we will have to explain it to him then as mummy will need to rest and not be jumped on!    My friend who got Pg at 43 didnt want investigations/treatment (bit of a natural earthie mother whos not into medicine much) All she did was make sure they had good diets and leave it down to luck.  All she has said was how much harder number two is in terms of tiredness and how shes noticed such a difference in the five years (not in a complaining way - just in a feeling older way!)  I think you are also so right that we do have the benefit of so much more quality time with them that i am sure we would miss, my DS is so switched on from all the attention and people always comment on how 'clever' he is, but i am sure its just all the reading/time we spend together.

Jo - Not a nurse, i am a (childrens) physiotherapist, i work mainly with pre-schoolers and children in mainstream primary school.

Have a good week.....will be thinking of you all tomorrow morning   

Teena


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## SUSZY

Dear girls
Emilycaitlin has started a new thread for daily postings which is great (was thinking our title was not so welcoming) so am going to post over there as Sarylou has done - hope you will join us.
take care
girls
love
susie


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## kelway

i couldn't find where the daily postings section was?x


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## SUSZY

Dear Kelway and co
know you found it but in case anyone else cannot just click on below

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=82159.0

it really is a great place to voice your stuff of the day and you don't have to post every day just as and when you feel like it.

take care girls and thinking of you all   

susie


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