# domestic and inter-country adoption - how do you decide?



## AnneS (Sep 18, 2006)

Hi all,

I was on FF for years during our IVF?ICSI journey, but have not been here since last year.
I hope you can help me out with your thoughts on a decision which I find surprisingly difficul to make.

I won't bother with much background, but a brief summary:

IVF/ICSI was a roller coaster. I was pregnant with twins on our thrid attempt and lost them at 20 weeks. We had another ICSI, but BFN, then FET with frosties, but again BFN. We always thought we would adopt, we just (!) had not accounted for having difficulties with having biological children ...   
Anyways, we took a looong break (since Sep/Oct last year) and here we are, met with a SW and now I cannot make up my mind whether to go for domestic or inter-country adoption. Does that sound daft? I am getting quite annoyed with myself.

We are not swimming in money, but we could stretch to afford intercountry adoption, somehow...

I do not crave for a baby, but I do think that the younger a child, the easier it can adapt, catch up etc and in that sense I think it is good for the child, but of course I suspect good for us as well.

I feel that adopting domestically (??) is also a good thing. We had an involved conversation with the SW about how you know more about older children and how that can help. I also find my friend's older children (I mean 2-6years old, some older) really fun. I find it easy to bond with them, I find their little emerging personalities interesting and very lovable (not necessarily at 6.30 am though ...).
We are too old to be able to adopt a baby in the UK. I am now 40, Dh is 39. We were advised that an age range between about 2-5 years would be good. Sounds good to me.

Anyways, we have friends who are way ahead in the domestic adoption and I know Irishlady (hello   ) here. But I do not knwo anybody who did inter-country adoption. Anybody here who coudl talk me through their reasons why - or why not??

I struggle to explain why I find the decision so hard, when I almost look forward to the adoption process. I guess we are certain that we want a family, but I am still not sure how to get there.

I also struggle with the worries about what is good for the child - I know with the right support and knowledge and love a child can overcome the most horrendous things, but who am I to decide what that might be? Age, malnutrition, parental drug or acohol abuse, physical abuse of the child, abandonment. I mean both children here and abroad suffer through early life before they might end up in the adoption process. How do I weigh these backgrounds?

I read a few books, but I would find your seronal experience more helpful.

I start to ramble, so better stop.
Thanks for reading. 

Anne


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## thespouses (Jan 5, 2006)

Ok so we have been through this decision and came out in favour of intercountry. We didn't make our decision till after prep course, in the end. Here's what we thought:

I was keen to parent a younger child - not necessarily a newborn, but a real baby. So, in the UK, we had the choice of LA (you can be matched with under 2s but they can be massively inefficient and take ages) or VA (we had already enquired of the one that does ICA in our area, they would not take us on for an under-3, though they also approve UK adopters).

Some international sending countries do NOT send children under that age, but the country we are adopting from does. It is also a country that I'm a joint national with. It's not the cheapest option in ICA but neither is it the most expensive. There are also some other features we are happier with though in some respects it is similar to the UK - some children are placed for adoption for similar reasons which might be hard to explain to a child in later life e.g. prison, rape, mental health issues, drug exposure during pregnancy are all possible, it's also possible we'd have no information whatsoever about the child's father (or its mother if she vanished). We are adopting from a country where you get relatively a larger amount of information about the child's family, and for us that's a positive. Some ICA countries you get zero information.

We ended up going for ICA mainly because we wanted a child younger than 3 but we did not want to wait through the LA's processes (and, we'd previously applied to foster with them so we knew fine well how inefficient and unprofessional they were).

Because our VA mainly does UK (there was one other ICA couple on our prep course, also adopting from the country they are both, in this case, from originally), we felt well prepared for UK adoption and we might consider it in the future if we decide to adopt a second time.


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## Boggy (Dec 13, 2006)

HI Anne S

If you read through some of the stories on here, you'll see that a great number of people have adopted babies - in adoption terms this means under 2 years.  At your age, I wouldn't have thought you were too old to adopt an under 2 (i can think of a couple of people here in their 40s who have very young children).  Many agencies will place babies as long as one partner is under 45. Realistically the youngest a child would be is around 6 months but most are between 12-24 months.  Mine were 16 and 13 months on placement. Have you thought about other LAs?  You can apply to any agency within a 50 mile radius of your home.

I think wherever a child is from and whatever age they are there will always be challenges.  Even babies placed very young can be significantly effected by the lifestyle/genetics of their BM.  All children in domestic adoption will have lost everything they have ever known at least twice and this will leave its scars however I always feel that in international adoption the risks are far higher as foster care/orphanages may not be able to meet a babies need for attachment which in the long run can be very difficult for adopters to cope with.

Sounds like you are doing all the right things, thinking it through and asking lots of questions   All good practice for whichever adoption journey you take  

Bx


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## Guest (May 3, 2011)

I thought I'd add a different perspective as we decided to go for domestic adoption and ended up adopting "older" children (they were 8, 6 and 4 when placed).

We decided against ICA as we did not feel we could fulfil a child's cultural needs as we had no close connection with any other country.  We also felt there was a huge need for adopters of harder to place children here, so chose that route.  

We found adopting older children has a couple of big advantages - you have much more knowledge about who you are getting as most conditions will have been diagnosed, whereas it can be a lottery with younger children.  Also you do get some time out if you have school age children - which was important for me in the early days.  We were lucky in that we got to know our children well before we applied to adopt them as we did respite foster care first.  

I hope you can find the right path for you.

Bop


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## Miny Moo (Jan 13, 2011)

Thought I would throw my bit in, we adopted domestically, our son was 6 when he came home over the last 16 months, we have had to over come some very big hurdles, we love our boy to bits though and would not change him for the world.
We have met another couple through going to AUK meeting's who's son is just a month younger than our son, he has been with them since he was 11 months old, and at the moment they are going through much the same as we did for a while.
So I don't think that the younger at placement have less problem's all the time.
Good luck with your journey which ever road you choose.


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## Old Timer (Jan 23, 2005)

Hi
We chose domestic adoption though I did look into ICA 5 years ago.

If I were you I'd contact some other agencies, to be told at your age you are too old to adopt under 2s is rubbish.  You will find agencies try to 'push' older children but if you want under 4s say then you stick to your guns and get approved for 0-4.  Since the Baby P incident there has been a huge increase in children being taken into care earlier and so there are now many more under 2s in the system needing adopting.

Younger children aren't always easier even in the early days, they can have a lot of issues and can reject the mother figure and display very challenging behaviours due to their early experiences even if removed at birth.  We adopted our son at 27 months with expected attachment and behavioural issues, he is very stubborn and strong willed and had no attachement at all to FC but we know from reading other sites that we have a relatively easy time 'at the moment'.  I know people who have adopted babies (under 12 months) who are now the same age as my DS and they are having huge problems with school, behaviour, attachment etc.  You really can never be sure what the future will hold and to me thats why adoption has to be an ongoing process, you have to keep reading, researching and learning to help your children.  For now though we have a very normal life and lots of info on birth family though not easy info to give DS in years to come.

Good luck
OT x


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## panorama (Feb 7, 2005)

Hi Anne

So sorry to hear about your journey, been through something very similar   

Also a question we considered, but after weighing it all up we thought we would go domestic - first it is just easier, second we had already spent a huge amount of money, and also we thought domestic adoption would provide us with post adoption support which will be more difficult if you adopt from abroad. Apart from that the number of countries where you can adopt 'babies' has really dried up a little now, due to various issues eg there is a waiting list to adopt from China of about 4 years now! (I think!)

So we looked at various options here and were shocked when two LA's said they could not adopt any younger than 5 or 7, which put me off adoption for a year. But then through this site found our LA who told us it was no problem to adopt a younger child. So you really need to research the LA's close to you.

We thought the youngest we would ever be able to be placed would be about 18 months to 2 years so we were shocked to be considered (going through right now! fingers crossed!) for a 7 month old baby!! Like others have said it can and does happen and there have been a few people on here that have. Yes you will need to consider long term implications as with younger children there is more developmental uncertainty but that is a risk you can weigh up with your social workers. 

Good luck!!

panorama x


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## keemjay (Jan 19, 2004)

the age thing is nonsense..my friends were 44 and 48 when their 8 month old son came home...
for us, inter-country was a no-no.. far too expensive (up to and above 20 grand) when you can get the same thing for free here!! bit blunt but thats how it is..
its common for agencies to spout the 'we only are taking on couples who can adopt the 4-8 yr old age range as thats all we have at the moment' line..its a test to see how determined people are..lots run a mile at that..the correct answer is..'yes we might be open to that age range' get your foot in the door and a whole lot later on will be when you narrow down your age range and make decisions..agancies just want people who are open to a challenge..which adoption will be to some degree or another..
our were 19 months and 9 months at placement (2 seperate times) and have been on the whole very easy but in no way would i make the assumption we're home and dry..middle childhood and teenage years can bring up all sorts of issues that you're not expecting..its a risk that we all take..theres a wonderful cold play song 'what if' that struck a chord with me when we were experiencing a very difficult time with matching to our DD, its about taking the risk that adoption brings

heres a link to the lyrics, seeing as i'm not allowed to copy them on to here  

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/What-If-lyrics-Coldplay/5517DCF5EE1B1A5048256FE800168F2B

good luck with getting your head sorted with it all

kj x

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## wynnster (Jun 6, 2003)

I agree totally with KJ (i'm sure we were seperated at birth!)  The age thing i'm sure is there to test you, but, as someone else has said different agencies tell you different things, I think it depends on what children that agency are currently family finding for at that moment - Our agency currently has NO baby adopters    for the pure fact that they 'closed their doors' to people who would only consider 0-2, now they have a list of approved adopters for 2-8 year olds only and are having to place babies within neighbouring authorities. 
We did consider Inter-country adopting but decided against it for money reasons but mainly because of how I felt about removing a child from their birth country just so I could have a baby, this is totally my own opinion so dont mean to tread on anyones toes.  Who am I to remove a child from their roots and move them to a foreign country where yes they will be loved and cherished and raised as my own but there remains that root.  Adopting a child means they do come with a history, but one that can easily be explored from home territory and the only thing different to the child is the family that raised them, for inter-country their family would be different, their country and culture and possible their race.  For children that just want to fit in with their peers I feel this is alot of pressure for any child. 
I know there are lots and lots of children/babies that need a home from various other countries, but they are here in this country too. 
Maybe you could write a sort of pro's and con's list for each (domestic and inter country) and then write one for any potential child and see what that shows   

Best of luck with your decision


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## keemjay (Jan 19, 2004)

wynn-twin..how ridiculous is that..not having any baby adopters cos they closed the doors   its so silly doing that cos SS literally have no idea what children are going to come up at any time..madness, pure madess  

kj x


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## thespouses (Jan 5, 2006)

keemjay said:


> its common for agencies to spout the 'we only are taking on couples who can adopt the 4-8 yr old age range as thats all we have at the moment' line..its a test to see how determined people are..lots run a mile at that..the correct answer is..'yes we might be open to that age range'


I would really advise against doing this. We made it clear with our VA that we were undecided and they told us if we wanted a baby under 3 it had to be ICA because they never place children any younger except under very rare circumstances, mainly severely disabled babies, and though they gave us till after the prep course to decide they said that if we still wanted to adopt a child under 3 from the UK they would NOT take us on. They would also not approve us for "0-5" on the off chance a baby came along because they were certain they could not match us with a child under 3.

You really don't want to get to the situation where you've waited ages for the prep course and done the home study and you are under the impression you can change your age range but the LA or VA say they can't continue with you if you want to do that.


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## wynnster (Jun 6, 2003)

keemjay said:


> wynn-twin..how ridiculous is that..not having any baby adopters cos they closed the doors  its so silly doing that cos SS literally have no idea what children are going to come up at any time..madness, pure madess
> 
> kj x


I know utterly bonkers 



thespouses said:


> keemjay said:
> 
> 
> > its common for agencies to spout the 'we only are taking on couples who can adopt the 4-8 yr old age range as thats all we have at the moment' line..its a test to see how determined people are..lots run a mile at that..the correct answer is..'yes we might be open to that age range'
> ...


I think that is usual for VA's, I believe they place children who are generally harder to place, their children come through the LA, so unfortunately as most adopters want healthy children the ones with disabilities, or are harder to place due to their age or being part of a sibling group are the ones placed through a VA, so yes if you are approved through a VA the chance of a healthy 'baby' becoming available are very slim. You are better off speaking to a LA (in my opinion  ).


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## AnneS (Sep 18, 2006)

Dear all,


I am so very grateful that you all took the time and effort to try and answer (or address) my questions.
I am particularly re-assured that there are different opinions here and that you have not given me the rose-tinted view although some of you clearly have had positive experiences (and outcomes!!) with adoption.
I don't mind people being blunt either - life is too short and I was after answers not pep-talk or such like.
As for ICA - my sister is adopted from abroad, inter-country, inter-race. But that is over 30 years ago and I always say children are colour (and difference) blind unless you start to teach them otherwise. But that means also that now that I myself have to decide about ICA v domestic it is actually neither helpful nor does it give me particularly better insight. Although I have spoken in depth to my sister about adoption and her and us and growing up, the "problem" is - to me she is just my sister, not my adopted sister. And she is very matter of fact and at peace with where and how  and who she is.
So, there are two places in our town/area which deal with adoption: one is a VA, catholic and my Dh did not feel comfortable involving them. I know that they are bound by the same rules and regulations, but, well, that is a whole different story and anyway I do not want to ignore or override DH's views. The other is the VA that is doing the work for the LA, if that makes sense? Basically when we rang up the LA, they passed us onto the VA. The LA do not deal with adoption themselves. I should say that we are Scotland based.
Also, I might add since I first posted Dh and I have talked this over again (and again   ) and we think that adopting a sibling group would be perfect for us. Do most people want to adopt single children? We got the impression that adopting siblings might be very welcome? We thought it would be good for the children (to have each other) and good for us?
I start rambling again - what I really am concerned about is this:
How old is "old" - I know, I better clarify this   .
Some of you have written about adopting older children - I think there is  huge difference between these age groups: 0-2 (probably not possible for us anyway), 2-5 and older than 5. I appreciate the comments about that you know more about them at those ages and hence probably address problems better and hence help the child(ren) better. But how difficult does a 6 year old find being adopted? I understand and recognize that all these children come from problematic backgrounds and that only because one would adopt a 12 months old baby these problems do not disappear or are easier to address. But I cannot help thinking that a child that is younger and thus has less memory might adapt easier to a new family?? I read somewhere that some 'experts' believe that it takes roughly the age of the child again until it is truly settled into a new family, i.e. a 6 year old takes 6 years to settle and attach. That sounds heart breaking to me to everyone involved. I really do not think that all of the adoption journey should be a doddle, but at the same time I try to gage (however vaguely) what we can and want and should take on. Hence these questions.
That LA and VA do follow their own 'needs' and regulations and sometimes (often??) make decisions that seem to hinder adoption I can understand, but I do not necessarily agree with them. Their job should be to facilitate and serve the need of the children in their care and that means in the end also to respect and aid the adopters, but this is a different discussion ... I ramble - again!   
So, should I ring the LA behind our VA? Might they say different things about age? We were told that there are no babies to be adopted and that we would not be eligible because of my age. But given that we consider sibling groups and given that we do not hope for a baby (under 12), could we hope for children between 2 and 5? My husband thought that this is the age group the SW was suggesting, but quite frankly I am now thinking that was 'wishful hearing' on our part ...
What I seem to have left out of this post is ICA somehow. I have to admit that I think less of it (quantitatively, not making  judgments here!). When I try to imagine the family we could have, the domestically adopted sibling group between 2 and 5 or 6 feels right. 
I do not want to drag this out. I need to make up my mind. I think I will do a little more research, but not very much.  
THANK YOU ALL and please keep your thoughts coming.
Can I ask another BIG favour - could those of you who commented on age and LA versus VA please let me know where abouts you are based? Even if you just say England that would help. Again - we are in a Scottish city and were told a) adoption is administered through VA for LA and b) no babies (under 12 months, but maybe we misunderstood and they meant under 24 months) and I have no idea whether they 'tested' us. Thanks for making me feel a bit younger with your comments about age and examples of 40+ people who adopted.   


Wishing you all health and happiness.
Anne


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## Dame Edna (May 17, 2007)

Everyone on our prep group was 40+ (except me) and we all ended up being placed with children under 18 months   

This was even though during prep group we were told by the sw's that 'if you are looking for the 'perfect baby' leave now!  

Funnily enough we then had a visit and talk from the adoption medic and she (obviously not knowing what had already been discussed), said that she was seeing 'lots of babies' at the moment  . At the end of the day they just want people who are flexible and willing to consider children other than just babies.

I do not know what adoption is like in Scotland but In my experience you could be matched with a baby.  Your ages are definately not an issue.

We are in England by the way.

Good luck


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## Boggy (Dec 13, 2006)

Hiya

I'm in Scotland there are quite a few of us here!  

I adopted through the West of Scotland Baby Adoption Service, who only place children under 2 (but I believe this is changing to under 4s).  They have strict criteria regarding ages, and you and your DH are right on the borderline.  However, I'm fairly certain you're not in the West.  

If you're from where I think you are from, I'd be shocked if there weren't lots of babies who come through the system.    People who are willing to adopt sibling groups are in high demand in all areas. 

Bx


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## Guest (May 12, 2011)

Anne

I missed this latest update...

I'm another Scottish adopter.  We went through our LA who do handle adoptions themselves, although babies (under 2s when we looked) go through the West of Scotland consortium.  Putting my SW hat on, I believe there are fairly large numbers of babies currently available for adoption as more are removed at or shortly after birth.  

One more point on older kids.  Our eldest was 5 when taken into care and 8 when placed with us - she did take longer to settle than the younger ones, but is in a good place now (three years on).  In some ways being older has helped as she is more able to think it all through and understand why she had to move.  The youngest was unable to rationalise the difficult stuff in her early life so is left with more tricky vacuous fears.  

No idea whereabouts in Scotland you are, but we are moving further east imminently.  Happy to share more via PM?  

Bop


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## Irishlady (Oct 12, 2007)

AnneS!! Sorry I haven't made contact for a while..I hope you and DH are well and you are working through which route to take  xxx


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## AnneS (Sep 18, 2006)

Morning ladies,

thanks for the new replies. Am just back from a week's holiday. 

Dame Edna - thanks for your advice and thoughts.   
Boggy - yes, you are right, we are more East ...  Thanks!Bop - I saw you on the adoption chat thread and noted your signature (older siblign group). Yes please, I would love to contact you directly (PM), if that is ok. We are seriously considering adopting older (than 2 years) children. My Dh is convinced that this is a good thing. Thanks for getting in touch here!

Irishlady - Hello!! Good to see you and no worries, I am sure you are busy! Glad to read about your progress on  the other thread.   


Bye all,

Anne


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## AnneS (Sep 18, 2006)

Morning all,

a quick post before work starts, it will be a busy week!

DH and I had a few talks and chats and mulled over things and we finally came to the conclusion that we do want to try the domestic route. So will contact the agency and asked to be put onto waiting list for August course. e are hopeful there will be a place for us from previous discussion.

Thanks to you all for answering me here, it helped me a great deal. 

 C Anne


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