# I am back - 2nd time around



## Sienna77

Hi everyone

Just wanted to introduce myself. This board was the most amazing support to me when I was TTC for my now precious 2 year old daughter.  We took 3 years, 4 cycles of IVF, surgery, clomid etc etc to have her, so I am beyond grateful to have such a special and perfect daughter.

However, we had always hoped for 2 children and so we have decided to try again for another miracle.  We have been TTC for around a year.  We failed an IVF cycle in Oct, so I have had the endo lap surgery again last month, as I had so much endo removed before success last time. However, they only found a very small amount of it, so they don't think that would be the reason for the cycle failing.

I am just now started my 2nd cycle of IVF this time around. I was hoping for any tips on what I could do to assist the cycle. I am already on supplements and seeing my accupuncturist, but any other tips would be great, I had forgotten to some extent what other things I would do on a cycle. 

I have to admit, I feel so down about it, I hadn't even imagined, or thought we would be going through this again. Although I am so grateful to have my DD, I still feel this yearning to have another baby, but also feel I am completely mad putting myself through this all again, as it brings back some very tough memories.

Anyway, good to meet you all
x


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## gabiladybird

Hi Sienna77,
This journey is so difficult, isn't it? I've just had a second failed IVF cycle and it was so unexpected. We did everything by the book and beyond, i was positive and not stressed, rested for days, drank loads of milk, took progesterone supplements and still.... no luck.
Of course, every clinic is different and yours might advise you differently, but with mine (apart from the drugs) I had to drink 2 litres of water and 1 litre of milk every day during stims. Lots of protein rich food to help the follicles grow. I stayed off supplements during stims, i'm not sure if you need to but I thought, with all those drugs in my body, I didn't want anything more. I think I pretty much stopped the acupuncture too as i was becoming very sensitive and just generally too tired.
What supplements are you taking? Obviously, our age is becoming an issue with egg quality, so I'm eating lots of veggies, taking Co-Q10, Royal Jelly, Omega-3 and pre-conception vits as well.
I'm glad you've managed to have a little girl, my partner doesn't have any children and he's desperate to become a father. I'm feeling pretty inadequate and a let-down that I can't give him this one thing. It comes so easily to others.  
Good luck with your next treatment! x


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## Sienna77

Hey, thanks so much for your message, so sorry to hear the cycle failed, it is just so heartbreaking each time and I feel the same, you search for answers as you just can't understand why it doesn't work. 

I am on DHEA, Melatonin, CoQ10 and Insotil, which was a mix that my FS gave me to help my egg quality, so I have been on those for a few months, as well as having the surgery. I had 4 failed cycles with my daughter and it was due to my very poor egg quality, I have vacuoles on them, so chances are even less now I am older. 

I am also taking fish oils, vit C and D, Zinc, preg vitamins, magnesium and calcium, so am rattling! I am also trying to up my protein and drink lots of water.  I am also having acupuncture, only because it worked with my daughter, after 3 previous failed attempts - altho who knows if it helped!

What are you thinking you will do next?
x


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## gabiladybird

Thanks for your response Sienna. That's interesting about DHEA, I haven't been told to take it but have been thinking about it as I've read it can improve egg quality. What dose do you take each day?

I've been thinking about why the cycle might have failed. I have had my immunes suppressed as I had high TNF-a count and natural killer cells as well as overactive thyroid. (who knows where that came from) After my ET, my knuckles got really swollen (rheumatism?), which I sometimes get in the winter and try to combat with fish oils. This is an autoimmune disease and I think despite it being suppressed, my immune system has gone into overdrive and attacked the embryos.
I stopped all supplements during my cycle, this may have been a mistake as it could've prevented the inflammation. I will definitely ask the consultant when I see him next Friday.

We will try again as we've said we would have 3 goes and in the meantime I look into a strict autoimmune diet which is not easy when you have a fussy 8 year old and an equally fussy 35 year old to feed.  

Secondary infertility is very common as the body somehow produces antibodies and attack the embryos, possible cause of my MC. I am just guessing and trying all sensible routes at the moment, also going back to acupuncture as I do believe I have benefited from it. With my low AMH time is pressing, and although I'm trying to remain positive, the failure month after month is not easy to digest. 
I'll get back on Vit D and C as well and look into Melatonin and Insotil too. You can never take enough pills! 

When is your next cycle? x


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## lisamarie1

Morning ladies, mind if I join you?

Sorry to hear about your failed cycles, really hope this is the one that works for you.

We're very lucky to have a dd who is 4 (nearly 5) and have been trying for a sibling for the last four years. We've had 2 ivf cycles and 1 FET in the last year and are going to give it one more go in April. I know what you mean *gabiladybird* about feeling inadequate, our issue is almost certainly with my eggs, nothing wrong with dh's sperm quality or quantity. I also have vacuoles in my eggs *Sienna* but I usually get a good amount that go on to fertilise normally so they can't say definitively that this is why the ivf is not working.

This time round I'm really going for it with the healthy eating, no drinking, acupuncture and I am also taking coq10 and DHEA in the hope that there might improvement in my egg quality. My consultant is sceptical about that but this is going to be our last attempt so figured it was worth a try. I'm also going to have the end scratch the month before my treatment.

I was also wondering about whether to carry on with the supplements during treatment, I'll ask my clinic when I next speak to them.

Wishing you good luck,

Lisa


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## gabiladybird

Hi Lisamarie (like your avatar  )

I've been researching some healthy/autoimmune/fertility diet and they all point to the same - need to cut out gluten and grains. And sugar, of course but we already know not to have any fun, don't we? It's not going to be easy, living on sweet potatoes and lettuce but i will try (as soon as i've finished off the bagels I have in my kitchen). My clinic doesn't like anything that may interfere with hormones, that is DHEA, Maca and Agnus Castus so I'll stop these once I find out when i can do the next cycle again.

AF has just arrived with a vengeance after my BFN, so it might be time to start acupuncture treatments again.

I really don't feel like having another IVF, I just want it to happen naturally, like it does for everyone around me.


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## Sienna77

Hi girls

Good to hear you are trying the healthy diet, I have to say I am terrible at being disciplined around my eating, but with upping the protein, it has meant I am eating lots more salads, to stock up on chicken and tuna!! That is interesting about cutting down on the gluten and sugar, does that mean you are cutting out pasta, bread altogether?

I completely agree with you, gabiladybird, I desparately hoped we would fall naturally, especially after the endo op too, I had hoped the clear out would have helped.  I had also hoped that after having my DD through IVF, that age old wives tale that says your body knows what to do might work - but of course it doesn't happen that way!

Good luck with getting ready for your next cycles.  I am on day 4 of this cycle - they are trying a short cycle with me this time, whereas the last 5 have been long cycles with Lucrin. I just hope it works.

x


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## gabiladybird

Wow Sienna, you're up late! So you're on stims now? I know what you mean about finding it hard to stick with diets. I've never dieted in my life, I guess it's time I gave it a go. Check out this link: http://natural-fertility-info.com/fertility-diet, it's got some interesting points to note.
The idea behind cutting out gluten (bread, pasta, grains) and refined sugar is that these are not natural to the body (see paleo diet) and therefore the body needs to work extra hard to break these down and it can easily cause inflammation in the body as well as autoimmune diseases. I know I have problems as I did have an immune test and had to take Humira to suppress my immune system but it's creeping back up again. If only I could do this diet for 2-3 months, I could say I've tried everything and it must be down to bad luck.

Oh yes, the old wives' tale... Only yesterday we heard about a couple who fell pregnant after their failed IVF, but we hear at least one story a day. And of course, we're trying too hard... I just need to get peed and relaxed and then, hey presto, it will happen! Damn, how could I not think of that?!


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## Sienna77

Hi, I am actually living in Oz now, am from the UK and moved over with my Aussie husband, so my day is your night!!!

Yes, have started the stims, already getting headaches with it, I start the next lot of drugs tomorrow, which is day 5. Thanks for the diet link, I definitely need to follow it!

I completely agree, if one more person told me to go on holiday, or relax, or some other crap!!!! Grrrrr!! Did you say you had the natural killer cells tested? Just that a friend of mine had hers tested and they were high and they thought that was why her perfectly looking embryos weren't taking. 

How are you doing?
x


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## gabiladybird

I've had the Natural Killer cells tested and they came down to 10 from 14 (12 being maximum I think), then I had my tnf-a cells tested, again something that can make the body attack the embryos. They came down from 34 to 20 (32 being maximum) but I had some delay, so couldn't cycle for a few months and by the time of ET they were back up around 28 and who knows, they may have rocketed when they've detected the little embies in there. 
Ooh, Oz... lovely! It's absolutely freezing over here in the south-east, i'm struggling to keep my feet warm.  

I'm doing fine but OH is struggling to come to terms with the failure. Not easy when all their friends are having babies, regardless of how much they abuse their bodies or how old they are! Grrr....... x


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## Sienna77

Do they think the killer cells may be a reason for the cycle not working? What are you thinking about doing another cycle? Will you do another one soon?

I am on day 7 now and am feeling pretty terrible.  Headaches have kicked in and feeling really tired and out of it. Had a scan on Friday, I have 14 follies, but that means nothing to be honest, as I always get big numbers, but still don't end up with any at the end. So just keeping everything crossed I at least get one of decent quality this time.


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## gabiladybird

I'm not sure if it was my killer cells or simply an immune reaction that destroyed the embryos. I am trying to compare my cycle with others' and the only difference I see is that those ladies who took Humira to suppress their immunes, they started their stims straight after the Humira brought their tnf-a counts down, whereas I had to wait 3 months because I had cysts and other problems so couldn't start a cycle straight after my immunes gone down. I think they've started to creep back up and by the time the embies were transferred they were high enough to attack anything that was remotely foreign.  
Yes, we will do 1 more cycle but going for a follow-up consultation on Friday and we'll see what we need to do first, i reckon there will be another round of Humira before i can start treatment again. In the meantime i'm off gluten (it's been 3 days and i'm struggling already) and onto lots of supplements.
Wow, 14 fillies is very good, i hope you'll get enough out of them. Do they tell you to drink lots of milk as well? 1 litre a day was a bit of a high order... x


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## Sienna77

Hi, how did your follow up appointment go? What have you decided to do? I have my egg pick up tomorrow. I had the scan on Saturday and although they still hadn't grown enough, they said they couldn't leave me any longer on the drugs.  So I am just hoping that I get one that is big enough/ mature. I have pretty much lost hope already, I am assuming it won't work as they were so small on Saturday. 
x


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## gabiladybird

Hi Sienna, follow up was not what I expected. I thought my immunes were misbehaving but they reckon it was chromosomal issues, commonly egg quality. Not overly happy as I can't do anything about it and it's not gonna get better now that I'm 38. On the positive side, they've said they would put me on a natural cycle next time. Less drugs, one egg but hopefully better quality. And cheaper... 
I'm puzzled why they would go agead with your egg collection if they're not big enough, wouldn't they want you to try again another month? They must be hopeful that they can get a good egg so dont lose hope just yet, a lot can happen in a few days. Fingers crossed, I hope it goes well. X


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## gabiladybird

Hi Sienna, how did your EC go? Thinking of you x


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## Sienna77

Thx for thinking of me.  I have had a horrendous few days.  So the EC was on Tues and the took out 13 eggs. However, they were all damaged, but they managed to inject 6.
I got the call the next day to say that none had fertilised and the cycle had failed.  As you can imagine, I was devastated.  Then the next day, they call to say that 4 had actually fertilised and were progressing!!!!!!!!!!!! I was in complete and utter shock. 
So I then get the call yesterday afternoon to say that 2 were ahead and if they continued, they would do a day 3 transfer. 
Thankfully, one had progressed, so they put it in today! So I have an embie on board!
The others are too damaged to make it to freezing, but I don't care, after this roller coaster of a week, I am so grateful to have one!!!!!!!!!!!!
How are you doing?
x


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## gabiladybird

That sounds like a nightmare! How can they put you through so much?? They haven't a clue what it does to us emotionally, it's so hard and you are just trying to get from one stage to the next and take everything as it comes and getting the news wrong doesn't help. 
I'm glad you've got the one at least, that's all it takes, i really don't think the chances would be any better or worse having just one implanted. Take it easy now and lots of positive thinking. Keep rubbing that belly and topping up your progesterone levels. 
Welcome to the longest 2 weeks! 
I'm still waiting for a call from the clinic to hear about my immune test. It probably won't be till early next week and if the results are not good, i will need to take immune suppressants which take about 8 weeks to work. Who would've thought having a baby is so difficult..?   x


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## Sienna77

After having a HCG of 67.5 on Thur, I was told I ha to be tested again. Today it's halved. So its al over. 
I'm so devastated


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## gabiladybird

Oh Sienna, there are no words... I am so sorry, I can imagine how you feel, it is devastating. Don't give up hope. Big hugs


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