# Cycle ended no transfer :-(



## elliecats (Aug 12, 2011)

Hi all

I am new to this site, so apologies is I am posting in the wrong place.  I had my first cycle of icsi and was lucky to get 10 eggs, all fertilised.  9 grew and by day 3 8 were grade 1 or grade 2.  We were told we couldnt have a day 3 transfer as 8 good so were booked in for transfer on day 5.  On day 5 the clinic rang to say they were cancelling as all 8 embryos had deteriorated and died.  We were completely gutted and shocked.  Just wondered if anyone has ever had this and is it even worth considering a second cycle?
The clinic said we may never know why they died.

Paula  x


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## L_ouise (Sep 23, 2010)

Hiya, i'm really sorry about your failed cycle but i would urge you to try for a second cycle. I'd even be tempted to change clinic just incase they messed it up somehow.

There might be something genetic going on ofcourse, but if there is then you'd have to start looking into donor egg/sperm and i think it's worth holding out for that second attempt just to try for a child that is biologically both of yours.

If you are strapped for cash then you might want to go straight in for diagnostics to identify any possible genetic defects in the eggs/sperm.


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## elliecats (Aug 12, 2011)

Thank you for you reply.  Think we will go down the route of testing first and go from there x


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## DJCJ (May 24, 2007)

Hi Elliecats - so sorry to read what happened - how totally gutting.  As you can see from my profile, we have had the unfortunate experience of not making it to transfer a couple of times now, however, those situations were quite different to yours.  I am really angry on your behalf that the clinic 'wouldn't' allow you the option of a day 3 transfer.  I would definitely have a few questions about their embryo monitoring procedure at the follow up consult.  Surely an embyrologist had a look on Day 4?, how many were still growing then? How many were slowing in growth? Surely they didn't all deteriorate and die at the same time.  The clinic should definitely be able to provide you with some answers at least.

I would definitely say yes, its worth trying another cycle, you've had a fantastic fertilization rate.  We've never had as good a rate of fertilization for the number of eggs collected, only ever had day 3 transfers (we never had the numbers to risk going to day 5) and as you can see we have a DS from cycle 3.  I'm not sure how you feel about your overall care at this clinic, so depending on that it may be worth researching other clinics.

I wish you all the best for the future hun       
DJ x


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## elliecats (Aug 12, 2011)

Thanks DJ.

We had our follow up today. All very strange. We saw the top man (clinical director) said he couldnt give us any answers as they dont know what happened could be so many things.  He said he would give us some money back.  He said they never check on day 4 as nothing to see, couldnt tell us the point when they all went down hill either.  We requested a copy of all our notes etc but he never gave us the lab reports on our embryos only details of the medication I was on. Plus he wouldnt show us the photos of our embryos that was on our file, which I thought odd.  We would like to try another cycle in a couple months just terrified the same thing will happen x


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## DJCJ (May 24, 2007)

Hi Elliecats - glad to hear you didn't have to wait any time for your follow up, although I do agree that it all sounds very strange.  It might be worth giving them a ring in the morning and 'making them aware   ' that they omitted parts of your file, which you would like and are entitled to.  Offering money back always makes me suspicious.  We were refunded the full cost of our 4th cycle (not including drugs).  The statement was made within the first 5mins of the follow up consult, before we ever got into the nitty gritty of how the cycle was handled (v. badly) and what factors could have caused the zero fertilization.  To this day, I feel as if they knew something we didn't and the best thing for them to do was give us a refund to stop the questions - I could be wrong, and maybe a bit cynical    but when we got zero fertilization on cycle 2, there was never a suggestion of a refund (different clinic) and while they couldn't give us definite answers as to why it happened, their concern and total committment to us, kept our confidence in them and we had another cycle with them which resulted in our DS.  Unfortunately we moved house when DS was 9mths, so that clinic was too far away.  

Anyho, what I am trying to ask in my own long winded way is whether you are you intending to stay with the same clinic?  Did he restore your confidence in them? Btw - did he explain why they 'wouldn't allow' you the option of Day 3 transfer? 

DJ x


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## Kay123 (Aug 6, 2011)

Hi Paula

I see you posted this a couple of days ago... my heart totally goess out to you. My very first ICSI did not result in transfer and I was absolutely devestated. The pain was just so awful. Everyones circumstances are different and as such I would encourage you to get all the answers to all your questions and if you are not 110 % happy with the answers I would definitely look at moving to another clinic. I read a very interesting article in the Daily Mail this past Saturday August 13th, titled IVF Clinic Blunders Treble In Three Years.  Your very sad situation may not be any fault of the clinic but make sure you feel absolutly comfortable with the clinic. 

I dont know what your circumstances are, or age ect so it is very difficult to know why transfer did not result. Once you have all the answers it will be so much easier for you to come to a decission of how to move forward. I am now doing DE IVF something I never imagined and this decission came to my hubby and I only through obtaining as much info as possible about why our ICSI failed and how I could ultimately increase my chances of becoming a mummy. This decission to go the donor route has led me to doing DE IVF in South Africa. It can be a very long journey for so many of us but please dont give up there is always hope and I am willing to share a bit more of my journey with you if it can be of any help. Sending you loads of baby dust Kay X


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## elliecats (Aug 12, 2011)

Thanks all for your comments.

The clinic didnt really restore my faith, he just kept saying they are the best clinic in the uk for blastocytes and we will never know why our good embryos didnt make it after day 3/4.  He said their policy is always to do a day 5 transfer if you have 4 or more good embryos on day 3.  He said if we were to have another cycle he may consider a day 3 but said unlikely it would work!  Its all so confusing x


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## DJCJ (May 24, 2007)

Hiya

Can completely appreciate how he didn't restore your confidence in them.  What did he mean when he said they were 'the best clinic in the UK for blastocysts'?  Did he mean they have the highest number of patients going to Day 5, or the highest pregnancy rate from patients who have Day 5 transfers?  Coz really - only the second option is important.  Either way, its really not much help to your current situation.  A clinic should treat each patient and case as an individual, he seems to be suggesting a blanket fix of Day 5 transfer is the only way to go.  As our DS is the result of a Day 3 transfer, I would completely dispute that.    Did he actually make any helpful suggestions with regards to going forward with treatment? 

I hope you have managed to get a copy of your lab reports as this will be helpful to the next consultant you attend.
Best of luck     
DJ x


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## elliecats (Aug 12, 2011)

Thanks DJ.  I think he meant the former!  He didnt give any suggestion about treatment going foward only that I should repeat the same cycle.  I did ask if I could try the long protocol and he said thats an option.  A couple of my friends have had successful babies from day 3 transfers but he said as mine didnt make it to day 5 they wouldnt have made it to day 5 in me.  Although one of my friends had 2 very poor embryos put back in at day 3 and she ended up with twins.  I just dont know whether to staywith the clinic and except the money off the next cycle or go somewhere else.

Thanks again x


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## yola (Aug 18, 2010)

hi

so sorry to hear your news. I just wanted to say i dont think a day 3 transfer would of given you a positive outcome so not to regret this ..  I have looked into this and apparently if the embryo dies in vitro it would of died in the uterus. If they did a day 3 transfer  then they would of cultured the remaining on to day 5 .. they then would of told you that they had died and not to be hopeful for the 2x transferred.  A very similiar thing happened to a friend of mine recently at a clinic in London. She had 20 eggs they all died except 2 which were growing slowly. The only suggestion by the clinic was to try another cycle no changes. She changed to a different london clinic who have suggested a variation of tests prior to treatment including immunes and genetic testing... 

now im sure you have researched this and i dont want to get it wrong but i think the first 3 days development is down to the egg and then the after this its the  sperm? so there may be a problem with sperm DNA....   this could be the other way round sorry ... but your consult will know.

But theres also the consideration the lab made an error but surely ethically this would have to admit this ... you are entitled to a full copy of your notes including all lab entries...

All the best i hope it all works out......


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