# Natural cycle when you're over 40



## Violet66 (Dec 28, 2007)

I've had two failed DE treatments. About to try FET (with donor eggs) 

Have told my consultant that I want a completely natural cycle and he is supportive of this but (quite rightly) he has pointed out the potential problems. Even though we aren't using my eggs he says that if I ovulate and the egg produced is a 'bad' egg - and at my age there's a good chance of that - then the womb environment it leaves won't be a good one for implantation. 

so I'm going to have a dummy run this month - testing my estrogen levels on day 8 and my progesterone levels 3 days and 7 days post ov - if the levels aren't good he advises a medicated cycle. 

anyone else heard this?


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## Danni (Aug 25, 2004)

hi violet
how will he know it is such a bad egg? Ive not heard about that. with Nat FET you are more likely to have a better quality  egg wthout all the drugs, its true that Nat FET is not indicated unless you ovulate regularly but if your lining is 9mm or above and a good sized lead follicle, i would go ahead. Younger ladies are more likey to have good results with Natural FET but it does not mean us older ones dont stand a chance with close monitoring  i 

Im having a Nat FET next month, im waiting for AF, I had a failed DE fresh cycle, then failed medicated FET and I just cannot take all the drugs. I have fairly regular Afs and had a "test" cycle in june, natural-scan on CD12-showed a leading folicle of 20mm, a 8.8mm triplelining and if this happens again this coming month, I will go for it. 
good luck, girl, i hope you succeed

Danni xxx


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## Violet66 (Dec 28, 2007)

thanks Dannii 

My doctor ways you can tell by the progesterone levels - which is why he wants to test mine on day 17 and day 21....he'd like to see a result on day 17 that shows ovulation took place and a higher level on day 21 that showed it continued to climb. 

I've had a medicated cycle in the past and i couldn't put myself through that again.


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## Danni (Aug 25, 2004)

Hi Violet
Im doing natural cycle ivf but using progesterone support after the pregnyl injection . Is yours completely natural?  Im not sure about prog levels checking if you are going to use progesterone anyway. I got AF today so ill be going for a follicle check on CD10 or 11. ET will hopefully be 1 or 2 October if things go well but my embryos are grade 2 frosties so its not the greatest quality, I had a BFN with 2xgrade 1s. We will see  
Danni xxxx


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## Violet66 (Dec 28, 2007)

Yes, I hope to have a completely natural cycle. 

whenever I've tested my progesterone on day 21 it's always been pretty high - anywhere between 67 and 77 - but on my last medicated cycle my body didn't really respond to the progesterone tablets and my levels never got above 40 

Good luck with your next cycle.


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## Danni (Aug 25, 2004)

hi
I was on the medicated cycle with cyclogest plus alternate day gestone, levels were 50 only, I wonder if it should have been much higher, it was a BFN. I was told 50 is ok but saw other peoples levels have been much higher. I dont think i have problems in a completely natural cycle so my boobs are sore and huge a few days after ovulation.  the only problem is my clinic dont like doing transfers on a Sunday so if i go completely natural it might fall on a sunday. Im wondering whether pregnyl should do as progesterone support rather than the pessaries  have you heard whether pregnyl is better?
dont know, will post a seperate thread later
Take care 
Danni xxx


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## Violet66 (Dec 28, 2007)

My doctor told me 50 was the minimum he liked to see during a medicated cycle. 

Don't know about the pregnyl  - sorry. 

If you haven't downregulated then you should have your own natural progesterone levels to work with too - which should bring your levels up. My problem was that I downregulated, therefore switching my own ovulation off, and my body just wouldn't absorb the artificial progesterone


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## Danni (Aug 25, 2004)

Hi
how are you? anything happening yet? just to let you know Im in the 2ww-had a FET of 2 expanded blasts 4 days ago. My cycle went ok albit slow-had a follicle of 16mm on day 12 but lining was only 5mm. I was about to give up but went for another scan on day 15-follicle was 21mm and lining 8.5mm and triple striped. My E2 level was 1300 at that point so gave pregnyl the next day and transfer was 5 days later. Just to be on the safe side, I did my prog level on day 23-7 days after ovulation and it was 68, much higher than my medicated cycle  i just took 2 doses as pregnyl support, nothing else
This cycle might not work , my embies were grade 2, I already had the good ones(grade 1) transferred in a medicated cycle which was a BFN in May.
I test next week in 8 days, my lining was just over 9mm at transfer, I think its ok
Wishing you the best
Danni xxx


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## Bethany915 (Aug 1, 2010)

Hi ladies - Just bookmarking really as I'm considering donor embryo FET if my IUI/AI attempts don't work (ok, it would be a little way down the line - I like to have a Plan B!)  Hadn't really thought about the drugs side of things as my 2 IUI attempts so far have been completely natural - but with FET I like the idea of a natural cycle - and having been pregnant before naturally, I know my body can do it!  I know I ovulate regularly. My progesterone at day 21 a few months ago was 37 (although I think I had a short cycle that month, plus day 21 fell on a weekend so it was actually day 23 I think - so it should really have been tested a few days earlier at 7 dpo in which case I assume it would have been higher).  But maybe I could do with some luteal phase support...

I also have low AMH.  I know that is a measure of ovarian reserve and affects response to follicle stimulating drugs, but do either of you know if that would affect how I would respond if I went onto a medicated cycle for the FET?

Which clinics are you two ladies at?  I would be looking at Reprofit but don't know if they allow natural FET cycles.

Danni - good luck with your 2ww   .  When is your OTD?  Violet - good luck with whatever stage you at in your tx.

B xx


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## Danni (Aug 25, 2004)

hi Bethany

Im at Reprofit and they allow Natural Fet-its all up to you. they open on Sundays too but close earlier in the day. I had transfer on a Monday-same day, left 6am, back 9pm  

a level of 37 is ok and shows you have ovulated-my hospital like to see prog levels over 30 but thats with no drugs, its only because we have IF that we want higher levels than 50-not really necesary as long as its over 30. I would think you would be ok with pregnyl or just a 400mg cyclogest once a day but its up to the clinic though. Reprofit wanted me to have  400mg cyclogest daily but I chose pregnyl, as natural as possible. I get sick of all the meds and still BFN, so lets see what this one brings.

not too sure about low amh, I have never ever taken AMH, my last fsh I took 7 yrs ago I swore never to rely on fsh/amh , I had a spontaneous conception a couple of months after a successful DE cycle with high fsh, you just cant tell, my "baby is 4yrs 3months.  My cycles are fairly regular thats all Im interested in at the mo, until I dont ovulate anymore, I dont give up, anything is possible  
take care 
Danni xxx


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## Bethany915 (Aug 1, 2010)

Thanks for the info, Danni - yes, I agree, while we are still ovulating, there is still hope   .  Can you explain the difference between cyclogest and pregnyl? Is pregnyl somehow more natural?

B xx


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## Danni (Aug 25, 2004)

Hi Bethany
cyclogest is progesterone as pessaries, you can put them vaginally or rectally whereas the pregnyl is hcg, when injected it promotes the release of progesterone from the ovary. obviously when you have ovarian failures its best to give the progesterone (ie cyclogest, gestone etc) than to take the hcg

I see your OTD is 16.10-so is mine. good luck
Danni xxx


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## Bethany915 (Aug 1, 2010)

Thanks, Danni - and good luck for your OTD too  .

B xx


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## Violet66 (Dec 28, 2007)

Good luck ladies - my next cycle isn't until end of November. Hoping you'll give me hope with your BFPs!


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## Danni (Aug 25, 2004)

Hi
just to let you know I got a BFP at 11dpt-beta was 97, a bit lower than I would have liked but hope the doublingrate will be ok  still so many mountains to climb

Danni xxx


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## Bethany915 (Aug 1, 2010)

Danni - WOW!!  Huge congratulations     I know it's early days but that's great news!  I read somewhere that FET often works better than fresh cycles in us "older women".  I can't see why that would be but let's just be glad of it   .  Good luck for the next few days ...

B xx


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## Violet66 (Dec 28, 2007)

Wow - great news Danni - congratulations.


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