# Oldies - Success Rates in Successive Cycles



## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Hello there

I'm interested in your thoughts about an issue that cropped up at my review appointment following a BFN on my first IVF attempt. My consultant was pretty negative about a further fresh cycle despite me having responded pretty well in my first cycle (12 eggs/8 fertilised/4 good quality embryos).  He said he was aware of research showing strong evidence that success rates for IVF for women in their forties plummeted after their first cycle, and therefore  doing another would probably be a waste of money.

Now I know success rates decline with subsequent cycles, but I've not come across anything so far to suggest a really dramatic decline - can anyone shed any light on this?  His clinic has a policy of not permitting a further fresh cycle until all frozen eggs have been used up - so it did feel a bit like he was trying to put me off!  BTW, bit of a surprise to find clinics have policies like this - given the investment of my money, genetic material, remaining 'opportunity' time, I would've thought this sort of judgement would need to be made based on the specifics of my situation and not just ' clinic policy' - perhaps I've been a bit naive about the way these things work?

Anyway - at least helpful confirmation that by decision to switch clinics next time looks a good one!  New clinic is more positive - and thinks going straight to another fresh cycle is a reasonable strategy at this stage in the game - but I have to confess the consultation with the old clinic has rattled me a bit.

It really is difficult to know how long it's worth keeping going isn't it?  And, I guess, the objective chances of success (should you ever be able to determine these with any confidence) are just one part of the equation.

Best wishes everyone - and sorry if this is a bit glum.


Sally Kate


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## MrsBunny (Oct 2, 2006)

Hello Sally Kate

I'm sorry you've had such a negative consultation with your clinic. It must be very discouraging for you and it's good that you've found a new clinic where they are more positive about another fresh cycle. I have never heard of this view either, that there is such a sudden decline in success rates (but I know a bit less about this as we went straight to donor eggs).

Anyway, I just wanted to say that, having been looking on the Frozen Egg Transfer board, there seems to be the opinion that ladies often have more chance of success with frozen eggs than with the fresh cycle, as their bodies are more able to cope with having the embryos as they haven't been under the stresses of undergoing the drug treatment to stimulate egg production. I don't know if this is proven, but it certainly seemed to be the opinion on a number of posts I read. So maybe while you are waiting to undergo another fresh cycle, it would be worth trying with your frozen embryos (I assume you have some).

It's just an idea, but having read what I did, it would seem a shame to base all your hopes on another fresh cycle when you have frozen embryos that might just work for you!
Good luck with whatever you decide.

Mrs Bunny xxx


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## Happiness07 (Aug 16, 2007)

Hi ,
I'm also 42 and on 3rd IVF cycle and my consultant -Dr Abdulla at the Lister (who has actually analysed success rates after successive cycles in the UK ) said that one's chances improve with successive attempts and he strongly believes that it's better to keep going ! I took great note of what he said and was really heartened by this ! Certainly the quality of the embryos has improved and in this last cycle I've managed to freeze a blactocyst for the first time and have a 10 celled and 12 celled put back in -both top gardes with no fragmentation ( also had them screened for genetic abnormalities this time ( recommended for older ladies!) and I'm testing this Monday. I feel positive and certainly you should too !


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## Kes67 (Aug 1, 2007)

Hi everyone - this is my first ever post on FF.  

Im 40 and about to start a short protocol in the next few days. We have 10 year old dd's following IVF in 1996 and it has taken myself and DH about 5 years to decide to go down this route again. Knowing what was involved we just kept putting if off, we came close of a couple of occasions but bottled it both times. When I hit 40 this year, it kind of forced us the make the decision really. Ive never had any funding for tx, only for the drugs back in 1995/96 but havent even got that this time due to my age. Bah!!!!! 

I tell you what, I cant believe how treatments have come on so much since we had ours in the 90's, its amazising so no wonder sucess rates have gone up so much. There are so many more drugs that you take and it all seems really geared towards yourself - back in the day you were on a long cycle of ivf with DR, Stimming and HCGs...that was it!!

We wanted to start tx on my last cycle but i had a pesky cyst that hung around for ages . However, several scans later and finally yesterday we found that the pesky cyst has gone so its all systems go...Hurrrayyyyyyyyyyy. Had my last binge drinking wine session last night (oh i will miss it) and Im having about 400 pints of water to flush it all out of my system. 

Im really interested in your stories ladies. 

Happiness....You had a great response to tx didnt you which is a real inspiration. and here's to a BFP on Monday chick -  Can i ask...were you on a long or short protocol.?

Mrs Bunny - Its really interesting re the FET's opinion. Im really hoping that we have some to freeze after reading that babe. 

Sally Kate - Im not surprised you're a bit rattled babe. I would be too after that information. I wonder why opinions differ so greatly from clinic to clinic though. It makes you wonder doesnt it. I havent really asked my clinic what happens if we get a BFN....and they certainaly havent mentioned further tx's after this. Mind you - its impossible to think past the end of your cycle isnt it.


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## skiwizard (May 20, 2007)

Hi Sally Kate 

I had 2 ICSI cycles and was successful in on our 2nd ICSI attempt. We then decided we wanted another baby so we had a FET using frozen embryos taken from both my ICSI cyles. Unfortunately the first FET didnt work, so when I had my follow-up appointment to arrange my 2nd FET I asked my consultant why he thought it hadnt worked. We spoke about my age being a factor and the quality of the frozen embryos. I then asked him what would we would have to do if this second FET didnt work, and he suggested we try another fresh cycle. Im not sure why your clinic werent very positive about another fresh cycle. 

If we hadnt achieved our 2nd pregnancy last week we would've had to have decided whether to have another fresh cycle or use the remaining frosties. We had 18 frosties left when we went for our 2nd FET. Eight were thawed and 3 were transferred. We still have 10 frosties left in the freezer.  

FET cycles arent as successful as fresh cycles, as the frozen embryos lose alot of their quality during the freeze process. Also, only 50% of the frozen embryos survive the thawing process. It is true that your body doesnt go through so much with all the drugs, but the chances of success are less. It was 38% with fresh and 15% for frozen at our Clinic. 

Im not sure why your clinic wasnt positive about having a fresh cycle.

Hope this helps a bit. 

Trish


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Sally Kate,

I'm really surprised you got such negative feedback at your review given your bumper crop of eggs. There are a number of ladies on these boards who've succeeded on subsequent cycles of IVF so don't be put off  

My clinic never mentioned a decline in chances after cycle 1 so hang on in there and if you want to have another fresh cycle go for it! If you have to wait to start somewhere new you could always give those frosties a chance.

Wishing you loads of luck  

CG xxxx


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## Happiness07 (Aug 16, 2007)

Hi Kes 67,
I was on the long protocol I think ie I started down regging on the Suprecur injections (some ladies sniff don't they ) for a few weeks from day 2 of my period and then onto stimms with Gonal F for about 10 days. The whole cycle was shorter this time though . Well hope that helps ...my response is great but fertilisation is slow for me - 18 eggs of which 15 were mature and only 6 fertilised (Luckily it was enough to do the PGS because they found 3 were abnormal so 2 put back and one Blastocyst on ice) Anyway there is no reason why it's all over for us over 40s ....let's hope and pray for a BFP tomorrow X Good luck on your cycle !


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Sally Kate,

I agree with the others and am surprised at your clinic's attitude to a fresh cycle.  I had just one lovely frostie waiting since September 05 - and then when I asked the consultant if I should go for a FET with that one, he advised to go for fresh cycles whilst I'm still producing good eggs - although I only have one ovary now (since an op last year).  Anyway, in an IVF cycle in Feb 07, I didn't have many eggs (2 out of 3 fertilised in Feb 07) but had 2 perfect embryos.  Then for my next cycle, unfortunately at my EC last week neither of the 2 eggs retrieved fertilised.  I haven't had a follow-up yet with the consultant as to why he thinks this happened (I respond very quickly on the short protocol, and went to EC just 8 days post stim, with 8 follies).  Anyway, thankfully, we had our one frostie so were still able to go ahead for ET last Thurs.  

Sounds to me like you responded really well to your first cycle, so I would say go for it!  Then you've always got your frosties too.  Also it is so important to have a positive clinic behind you.  I like to think that these stats are thrown at us are very general, and that I'm a very healthy 'young' 40 year old - and won't give up!!

Good luck all

BH xx


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Thanks everyone for you posts - really encouraging to receive them.  This site is such a good source of information and support - helps me keep going!

BH - good luck with your cycle - keeping everything crossed for you.  As Mrs Bunny mentions, success rates on frozen cycles (of older women) do seem to be pretty good in comparison to fresh (certainly in the HFEA data I checked for local clinics).  Not sure if anyone has discussed this phenomenon with their clinic? 

CG - Thanks (and for your helpful reply on cysts as well).  Did I read in another post of yours that you are down-regging soon? If so, very best of luck - I think we will be starting our next cycles at a similar time.

Happiness - Thinking of you this week - hope you're doing OK?  

Kes67 - Good to hear from you.  Good luck with your forthcoming cycle. Yes, know what you mean about 'clean living' - and can never persuade DH to keep me company, which makes it worse!  Trying hard to develop a taste for pinapple juice and brazil nuts!  Keeping everything crossed for you.


Mrs Bunny - thanks for info re: frozen cycles.  I checked local results which seem to fit in with this.  I guess the issue is getting past the thaw stage.  It's partly for this reason that I think I will hang on to my frosties for now. Should I be lucky enough to be in a position to freeze again, I would then feel a bit more confident about having something left to transfer in a subsequent frozen cycle.  Think for me there is also some psychological stuff too - having had several miscarriages the idea of having 'back-up' embryos in the freezer is strangely comforting - if things don't work out in a subsequent cycle, at least I don't feel back at square one.  Quite sure this isn't logical but it seems to help!

Skiwizard - Thanks and congratulations on your news.  Hope you're taking things as easy as possible?

Very best wishes


Sally Kate


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

hi Sally Kate

So sorry to hear about your negative consultation and sorry to say but it sounds as though he was talking baloney!  I have never heard about there being no hope after 1 failed fresh cycle and at my clinic the stats go up each time.

But I also wanted to mention about FET's!  I am one of those girls that fresh just doesn't work for.  I've had four fresh attempts (grade 1 embies or blasts each time) and always BFN.  I've had two FET's (aged 40 and 41) and both BFP's, though sadly m/c (it seems likely because of blood clotting problems).  My con suggests that some women just can't take fresh attempts with all the drugs in their body.  I am in the process of having another attempt and will freeze all my embies this time and wait to do a FET the month after.  If  you have to wait to do another fresh attempt then why not try a FET inbetween, you might just be lucky!

Best of luck to you hunni, whatever you decide to do
Allison xx


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Allison


Thanks for your post.  Good luck with your current attempt - let me know how it's going as I'm also cycling at the moment.  

I will talk to my Consultant about the question of fresh Vs frozen.  I wanted to squeeze one more go at egg collection in straight away before they get further past their sell by date - but am interested in your strategy of freezing everything. Do you try and get them to blast stage first?

I did have a pretty significant physical reaction to egg production/collection in my last cycle, and my acupuncturist was concerned as to whether this would compromise the outcome (although medical staff at my old clinic were not worried once they had established that any OHSS was minor).

I don't know very much about frozen transfers and the pros and cons of medicated and 'natural' cycles for oldies - what sort of protocol does your clinic use?

Very best wishes - fingers crossed for your cycle

Sally Kate


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

Hi Sally Kate

I've done both med and natural FET's  The first FET was medicated at my old clinic, where they transfered 3 x day 2 embies (2 cell, 3 cell and 4 cell).  The second at my new clinic was natural because I insisited that I would like to try natural first.  It was wonderful I must say with only a couple of blood tests, one scan (If I remember right) and a Pregnyl injection to make me ovulate just when they wanted. They defrosted four and I had 2 x 12 cell, 3 day old embies transfered, so lost two in the thaw.

I'm not sure whether I will do med or natural FET this time, need to talk to the con when I see him next but I think they normally perfer med as they can control the situation, but if you ovulate properly then it should be possible to have natural, if your clinic agrees.

I also respond very quickly to the drugs, this time they have me on 150mg (usually 200mg) and I have about 20 follies at the moment on Day 9 stimming.  I have to be really careful about over stimming and my hormones can get out of control (I've had OHSS once) and it does make some sort of sense that if your hormones are completely out of sync, it would be difficult for your body to sort them out quickly enough to allow a pg to establish.  I had also been an early bleeder on my fresh attemps ( don't know about you), which is wierd as I have a long lutal phase normally.

I am hoping they will freeze at Day 3 again this time.  I've taken my embies to blasts before and managed to get 10 to blast stage but they didn't manage to freeze any (I understand it is harder to freeze a blast).  As I have managed to get pg with Day 2 and Day 3 embies I'm quite happy to go with this route and they more they can freeze the better as far as I'm concerned!

Best of luck with your cycle hunni, I really hope you won't have to think about doing a FET for a long time but it's good to know that you have some snowbabies waiting for you, if and when you need them.

Allison x


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Hi Sally Kate,

I'm glad you're going for another fresh cycle first. The first cycle is usually seen as a bit of an experiment so the fact you responded well must be a good sign. When are you due to have egg collection?

To answer you're earlier question - yes I'm cycling at the moment! Just had my downreg blood test today.  I have to ring tomorrow afternoon to get the results but as I feel really , tired and headachy I'd be very surprised if they said I hadn't got there yet!

Allison Kate,

I was interested that you too have bled before test date on fresh cycles and got your BFPs on frozen cycles. I'm really hoping I'm one of those ladies frozen works best for.

CG xxx


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Hi CG and Allison


Thanks for your replies.

Allison - very best wishes for your cycle - 20 follicles sounds a lot!  Great, but I can see why OHSS is a potential issue.  Hoping all goes well and you get a really good crop and stay well.  Guess you are drinking gallons of water?

Not sure I understand exactly what a clinic controls in a medicated cycle in a patient that ovulates regularly - do they use both suppressants and stimms to generally manage hormone levels?

CG - I got the OK to start stimming yesterday following a scan and bloods. Haven't done a long protocol before  but sick of the sight of Suprecur already.  Wishing you lots of luck with your cycle - let me know how its goes.

Very best wishes


Sally Kate


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

hi girls

CG....I saw you were starting a cycle again and want to wish you the very, very best of luck.  Fingers crossed you will be a 'frostie' girl!  The only time I didn't bleed on a fresh cycle was when they gave me extra Pregnyl shots throughout my 2ww, before that I had always started bleeding by Day 11 (past EC).  My usual lutal phase is 15-17 days.  

Sally Kate...great news about your stimming, it all goes so quickly once you start the injections...well until the 2ww that is!  What dose are you on at the moment? My clinic have increased me to 225mg for the last couple of days to try and get a boost to my follies as some of them were still on the small side.

When I did my med FET I was already d/regged as I had been given an injection of Decapeptyl to try and shift my endo (don't think you can get it in the UK?) and then I had HRT tablets and if I remember rightly a Pregnyl injecton to ovulate.  I'm really not sure how my new clinic work med FET's.  I would really prefer a natural FET if I have the choice.

We should keep in touch and give each other some support, what do you say!  I find it hard to go on the main cycle boards these days as everyone seems soooooooooooo young.  

Wishing you both well with your stimming
Allison xx


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Great idea Allison - know what you mean about feeling a bit of a geriatric on the main boards, and my history of miscarriage makes me feel a bit different too (I'll be holding my breath rather than jumping up and down if I do get lucky!).

I'm using Menopur this time (300iu).  Apparently this is equivalent to the 200iu of Puregon I had daily in my last cycle.  Couldn't get an accurate idea of the number of small follicles at the start of my cycle as one of my ovaries is hiding (again). It'd better put in an appearance in time for egg collection  (fingers crossed I get that far)!

Do you know when they will do your egg collection yet and are you feeling ok so far?

Very best wishes

Sally Kate


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Hi cycle buddies  

Sally Kate, like you I'm sick of the sight of suprecur and just want my oestrogen back!! I'm sure I've had more heachaches this time around during the dreaded downreg so am hoping that the oestrogen tablets I started today will sort them out   As Allison has already said, now that you've started stimming the time will fly by. Here's to a really good response and second time lucky  

Allison, I really hope you get good news at your next scan and that there are lots of lovely follies     Has your clinic said when you might be having EC yet? How long will you wait to start with your frosties?

All being well and my lining thickens up ok my ET will be during the week commencing 24 Sept. .

Love and luck to all, 

CG xxxx


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

Hi girls

Well I triggered last night and should be having EC tomorrow morning at 10.15.  We need to be in Brussels at 8am so we'll be leaving the house at 5am   Is it worth going to sleep I wonder    Feel very strange about this tx, still haven't really got my head around the fact I'm doing it, despite having two injections a day etc. etc but I suppose when you've been through it again and again it gets kinda repetitive!  Now I'm panicing that I'm too relaxed about the whole thing and haven't done enough   but it also feels strange not to be gearing up for a 2ww.  I've never before been anxious for AF to arrive just as I'm about to have EC!!!  Oh GOD that it be worth it all in the end!!!

Sally Kate...hope the stimming is going well, when are you in for your scan hunni?     

CG...just a couple more weeks before your FET, it will go nice and quickly, I'm sure.       Are you doing anything special to get your lining thickened up?  I always have a problem with my lining (although it didn't stop me getting pg the last time) and I'm always on the look out for some 'thickening' advice!

Will let you know how I get on tomorrow
Allison xx


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Hi Allison,

Will keep everything crossed for you hun. I know what you mean about taking cycle's in your stride - I seem to just find myself going with the flow now as soon as I've started. It's the waiting around to start that's the killer. I hope the EC goes well and that you get a good number of eggs and embies from this cycle      

Will you be able to start preparing for your FET with your next AF? If so we'll do a little AF dance for you once you're back and recovered from EC   

Love, 

CG xxxx


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Hello Allison and CG

Hope you're both doing OK?

Allison - very best wishes for tomorrow, hope it goes really well.  Have the scans continued to look good?  Sounds like a major journey to get to Brussels - will you be OK?  Does the sedation start tonight or just when you get to the clinic?  Incidentally, am sure you have 'done' everything (and perhaps we  overestimate the extent to which we can influence things in any case, in a desperate bid to regain some sense of control over this crazy process!).  Hope you have a speedy recovery and the time before your next cycle flies by.

You asked about my scan - had one today, but most of one of my ovaries is still hiding which is a bit disconcerting.  However, the advice is to press on with the meds, so hoping to seem more at my next scan when the follicles are bigger.

CG - the Suprecur is really getting me down too.  So not looking forward to the menopause if this is what life without oestrogen is like!  Hope all is well with you and you're not suffering too much with your headaches?  Have the oestrogen tablets made a difference?

Very best wishes to you both


Sally Kate


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Hi Sally Kate,

Afraid headaches still bad and I feel shattered - of course it could be caffeine withdrawals (I've been trying to cut back  )

Hopefully the tablets will kick in before too long...Like you I'm not looking forward to the menopause if this is what it's like  Try not to worry about the shy ovary, they'll find it during EC. One of mine's generally shy during the scans!

Allison,

Forgot to mention in my earlier posting that of you've got any lining thickening tips let me know. I've decided to take baby aspirin this cycle, along with my normal i.e. brazil nuts, pineapple juice  and acupuncture. If I haven't got everything covered let me know!

Once again good luck for tomorrow.    

Take care both,

Love, CG xxxx


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

Hi girls

Thanks for the lovely good wishes  

Just a quick one this evening as I'm off to bed soon...exhausted!  Well, I had an extremely painful EC this time, usually I have no problem at all but this time I was climbing the walls! We managed to get nine eggies, which I'm pleased with but much lower number than normal.  I just hope less means better quality!  Managed to speak to the embryologist as they were very confused about freezing them all and she suggested that they would freeze all they could but if there were any that they didn't think would survive freezing, that we should try a transfer rather than waste them soooooo I have to speak to them on Thursday afternoon and again on Friday and it's possible that I will have a transfer that day.  Really hoping that they will all be good enough to freeze but I couldn't bear the thought of throwing away embies that might just make it!

Sorry to hear you are both feeling grim, let's hope we have quite a few years left before we have to do through the menopause for real!

Sally Kate....I'm sure once your follies grow a bit more you will be able see what's going on.  Keep stabbing hunni and you'll be fine     

CG...thanks for your thoughts on thickening up the lining.  I'm also going to be taking baby aspirin for my FET and also some Viagra to try and thicken things up.  I forgot to take brasil nuts this time but will remember for next month.  When do you start taking progesterone?  I normally start taking it the day after trigger and that also helps thicken things up before ET.

BTW I asked what my FSH levels were at start of stimming and they were 3.2 !!!!  Can't believe it!!!  Two years ago they were around the 9 mark and last year 5/6.  I started taking DHEA after my m/c for about 6 weeks and that's the only thing I can think could have lowered it that much.

Anyway thinking of you both and praying your headaches aren't getting you down too much 
Allison xx


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Allison,

9 eggs is fantastic so don't be disappointed it's quality not quantity that counts and 9 is pretty impressive by most standards (especially when you get to our age  ) 

That DHEA sounds like it's done the trick lowering your hormones like that so  that it's just concentrated the goodness in a smaller number of eggs  

Make sure you have a good rest over the next few days in case you're in for ET later this week. 

Hoping your embies are dividing nicely as we speak      

   

Night all,

CG xxxx


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Hi Allison and CG

Hope all is well with both of you?

Allison - hope everything is progressing nicely and the you have recovered OK from egg collection? Nine eggs sounds really good! The stuff I've read suggests that women who produce 8+ eggs have the highest chances of success, so you're definitely in the 'zone'!  Do you know yet if you will have a transfer straight away?

CG - hope you're doing OK and the headaches aren't any worse?  Guess you are now getting close to the date for your FET?  Are you managing to stay of the caffeine?  I've switched to decaf tea and coffee, but find it hard giving up chocolate.  In fact, at my very first IVF consultation, I nearly fell of my chair when the Dr said no chocolate for the duration.  I  found myself citing evidence from recent research into miscarriage which found that women who eat chocolate daily have a lower risk of miscarriage than those that don't - Dr looked at me like I was mad!

Anyway very best wishes to both of you.  Day nine of stimms for me today - but I seem to get a bit grumpy at this stage in the game.  Still couldn't find one ovary yesterday and I am a bit worried, as I can't see how they can tailor the meds very accurately only seeing one side?  Looks like 10 follicles on the other side - great in some ways, but my oestrogen levels went sky high last time towards the end and I had a scrape with OHSS - keen to avoid this happening again.  I guess I also wonder with us oldies whether a large number isn't great from the point of view of quality?  Sorry if this makes me sound like a miserable old bat - it will pass! 

I don't know if we'll be in a position to do another fresh cycle - so just anxious to get this one right.  I know the nurses who do the monitoring scans really know their stuff  and are lovely - but sometimes I'd just like a bit more contact with my Consultant.  I won't see a Dr now until egg collection and obviously will be in no fit state then to ask penetrating questions! 

Anyway, lovely to hear from you both and apologies for the long rambling post.

Take care

Sally Kate


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Allison, CG and Sally Kate,

Been following your progress and we've also 'talked' before, so hope it's ok that I join you.

Allison - 9 eggs is fab!  Hope you're feeling ok and getting lots of rest.  Did they go for a fresh in the end, or have they frozen all?  When will you go for a FET?  That's great about your FSH lowering so much too.  Mine was 8.6 last time.  What is the DHEA that you took?

CG - hope you're well and that the headaches have subsided.  It's really hard to give up the caffeine isn't it.  I really miss my lattes when I'm in tx!  Are you still aiming for w/c 24th Sept for your FET?

Sally Kate - try not to worry about your ovary; I remember reading on this site about one FF who was the same and they found it no problem in EC, and she had lots of eggs that she hadn't been expecting!  Try and stay positive, although we all now how difficult that can be!

I went for my follow-up consultation last week, following our 4th failed IVF attempt and was very shocked and upset by my consultant's response.  He's always been positive in the past and I guess I was just expecting the same!  He said that because I just got 2 eggs this time and neither fertilised (one ovary, 1 egg didn't fertilise, the other abnormally), that the quality just wasn't good enough and that he strongly advised us to go down the egg donor route!  DH wasn't there typically enough, so I was crying into the box of tissues in shock!  They have always said that my eggs have been good, and perfect embryos.  He said that my 'good eggs' were good for my age (I didn't realise this - am I stupid?), and that, considering my past operations, and number of attempts, he would give us less than 2% chance!  With donor, it would go up to 25-30%.  Anyway, we are waiting for a consultation with another clinic for a second opinion, so I'm pinning my hopes on them!  He just wasn't interested when I said ...but my response was good and levels great....but you said my eggs have always been good....but why not try a lower dosage next time and see if the quality is better!...  I know I only have one ovary and it has really been through the mill, but I just wasn't expecting that reaction    
Have your consultants ever said anything like this?  It was a great birthday present, as I turned 41 last week too!  I know that if the other clinic says the same, we will have to move on, but I need to hear them say the same thing first.

Anyway, must dash.  Hope you are all going well and sending huge amounts of      

Take care
BH xx


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

BH 


Good to hear from you and so sorry to hear about your difficult consultation. Sorry to hear too that you were on your own - my DH also misses lots of consultations because of work committents, and it's hard sometimes on your own, isn't it?

Sounds an excellent plan to get a second opinion.  I've had different levels of enthusiasm for continuing with IVF from different clinics.  One of the clinics mentioned donor eggs - but went on to say that in any case I was too old to join their waiting list!  I think about this option a lot (at a different clinic, obviously!) particularly as my last 4 pregnancies have ended in miscarriage, but I want to be sure I've exhausted my chances with my own eggs first. 

Take care and very best wishes for your next consultation.

Allison and CG - hope you're both doing OK?  EC on Monday - so glad to be off the drugs at last, and looking foward to feeling more like myself again. 


Sally Kate


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Hi girls,

Just back from a weekend away with friends and their little girl. Thankfully the sun shone for a change so we go to spend the afternoon on the beach building sandcastles!

BH - I'm so sorry you've had such a negative review, it must have been horrible not having your DH there.    I think you're right to have a second opinion if you don't feel ready to make the move to donor eggs. I struggled to decide what to do myself this time around. In the end we decided to move on to donor eggs if this FET doesn't work because at the end of the day I just want a family and don't mind about the blood tie anymore. Our consultant gave us a 10% chance with my eggs and 30% chance with donor so after many agonising weeks I decided I need to go with the option that will give us the greater chance of success. It feels such a huge move I know, especially when you're told you're producing good embryos - and I hope I don't regret it. It sounds like you've still got to explore your options so I hope you find a good consultant who can give you more positive news.  

Allison Kate - I hope you're fully recovered from your EC. Did you opt for a fresh transfer in the end or did you add to you frosties?  Either way I hope it's all gone really well    

Sally Kate - sorry to hear your ovary is still playing hide and seek   I'm sure it will be fine during EC     At our clinic we only ever see nurses for scans but they know what they're doing so hang on in there and try not to worry. Good luck for Monday - I'll be keeping my  for you hun. You're on the home stretch now. 

Night all,

CG xxxx


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

PS. Wot no chocolate - he can't be serious surely!! Please don't tell me I need to give that up too or I'll be  &


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

CG


Yes, no chocolate or hot baths - you can see why I changed clinics!

Hope all is well with you.  I've had a not very good 36 hours - ten eggs collected, but only six mature and from that, only two fertilised.  Bit worried the timing of the trigger shot may not have been great - as well as the four immature eggs collected they left another six smaller follicles untouched.  Didn't manage to get to speak to a Consultant about my options if the remaining two don't survive (I have two frosties in reserve - but at my old clinic).  I'm tempted to start a new thread seeking advice, on the off chance anyone who logs on tonight has been in a similar position.

Allison, BH, hope all is well with you both - thinking about you this week.





Sally Kate xx


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Sally Kate - I'll be keeping everything crossed for you and your 2 embies   Please remember that there's every chance that these 2 will be fine so try not to give up hope       If for some reason they aren't doing well by the morning why not give your old clinic a ring, explain the predicament and see if they would recommend you going ahead with your frosties. I'm sure they or your current clinic would be able to give you something to tide you over until they could transfer your frosties but really hope you find out tomorrow that this isn't necessary. 

Wishing you loads of luck for tomorrow and the next few days and beyond. I hope your embies are dividing nicely as we speak and that this is just a minor dip in the rollercoaster. 

Stay strong, have a large glass of wine and try to get some rest tonight.

Lots of love, CG xxxxxxxx


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

HI girls

So so sorry I haven't been around....I've skimmed through the messages and it sounds as though there's been a heap of things going on!

BH...lovely to hear from you hunni and so sorry to hear about your consultation    Definately go and see someone else, I find it too easy when dr's cast us off with 40+ statistics and as you say you have always responded well before now.

Sally Kate....I will be keeping everything crossed for your little ones       I  do know loads of girls on here who have had one or two embies and now have wonderful babies, so please keep hope  

CG....have you got a date yet for ET?  HOpe everything is going well for you hunni 

Well the reason I haven't been around is that I ended up with a really nasty infection following EC and have been in hospital for the past week....just got out this evening.  It seems as though they pierced through my intestine during EC and it developed in Peritonitis.  Thank God I managed to get to hospital as soon as I realised something serious was going on and I was seen by my wonderful dr staight away.  Feeling much better now but it was pretty awful!  Anyway we managed to get six snowbabies to add to our little one already in the freezer so once I'm better (dr has said 2 months min!) then I can have ET.  To tell you the truth it's the last thing I want to think about at the moment as I can't cope with the thought of having any more 'done' to my body for quite a while!

Resting up for the next few days but I'll be thinking about you all and ESPECIALLY Sally      

Much love
Allison xx


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Allison Kate & Sally Kate - I've pm'd you. Just wanted to give you both a big   
and say to take it easy over the next few weeks/days.

Lots of love, CG xxxxx


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## Jo (Mar 22, 2002)

Allison.
Hope you recover really quickly, I am sorry you have had to deal with this as well  , but wish you all the best for your ET when ever it is  

Jo
x x x


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi girls,

Alison, I'm so sorry to hear what you had to go through - as if you haven't been through enough with EC etc.  I completely understand the pain you must have gone through - I had an ovarian abscess last year and was actually ill for 6 mths.  It was a few months after EC but I was convinced it must have been something to do with the tx.  How else would I get an infection on my ovary?  The consultant said it is very rare but was reluctant to give his opinion on whether it could have been thru tx.  Thank goodness you realised early on that something wasn't right.  Because I'd suffered from many painful endometriotic ovarian cysts in the past, I had assumed that it was that again and waited patiently for an appointment.  In the end, after having to thru A&E, he reported that my abscess was equivalent in size to a 6 month pg.  Hope you're feeling alot better and do make sure you get plenty of rest.

Sally Kate - do hope everything went well with your embies.  Thinking of you.

CG - How are things with you?  Sending you lots of  .  Is it all go for next week?

Big   to you all

BH xx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Alison,

Sorry - forgot to say - 6 snowbabies - fantastic!!!!!  Way ta go!  

BH xxxx


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Hi BH - good to hear from you.

Not a good week for me.  Only 6 eggs fertilised and then all failed to cleave.  Consultant's initial opinion was very pessimistic (end of the road).  However, they're testing for infection, and I'll know more following the review consultation. Quite shocked, particularly as I had a great cycle in June (different clinic/different protocol), and responded well in terms of eggs and hormone levels this time. FSH is still under 6.  Not sure what to make of it.  Perhaps I'm in denial, but I'm struggling to believe it really is time to quit.  Losing track of whether this is rational or not!

Anyway, Allison's experience puts this into perspective.  And your abscess sounds a complete nightmare too.  So glad you both sought out medical attention in time.

Hope all is well with you?

Best wishes 

Sally Kate


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Sally Kate - It's good that your clinic are testing for infections rather than just writing the cycle off. Hopefully this will mean they and you will have a full picture for your review meeting. I really hope they can explain what went wrong. Until you have some more facts try not to decide what to do next. You've been through such a lot in the past few weeks and need time to recover and get your head straight.  

Allison Kate - I hope you're feeling a lot better hun and that you're still taking things easy. Your body has been through the mill a bit so resist the temptation to do too much too soon.

BH - that cyst sounds horrible. Have you decided what you're going to do next yet?

All being well I'm in for ET tomorrow at 1230 (a civilised time for once  ) Had a bit of a scare yesterday as I was spotting all day. Thankfully it seems to have stopped today.  Just hope it doesn't start again and my little frosties do ok tomorrow. .

Love, CG xxxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Evening all

Sally Kate - sorry to hear about the outcome of this cycle.  Do you have long to wait for your review consultation?  Clinics often mention that no 2 cycles are the same, so I was also shocked when my cons had lost his optimism on my last one.  Your FSH is brilliant and you respond well, which is surely a positive thing.  Who is to say that we won't have great cycles again next time?  

CG - wow, ET tomorrow.  Will be thinking of you and keeping everything crossed for the safe transferral of your wonderful frosties      

I'm just waiting for the appointment to come through now for the initial consultation with another clinic, for a second opinion.  I must admit, for the first time ever I have been taking a sneaky peak at the adoption thread and read some wonderful stories on there.  I guess I'm just trying to start thinking of the possibility of having to move on.  If the new clinic repeat what the existing one says (2% chance) then we think we'll move to adoption next.  We may need to relocate in the next 2-3 months, so I said to DH that we should get a bigger house, because one way or another we WILL have a family!

love BH x


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

Hi girls 

Sorry I haven't been around but have spent most of the weekend asleep!

CG...the very best of luck today       Let us know how you get on as soon as you can and we'll be keeping fingers, toes, legs (and anything else hummanly possible) crossed for a BFP!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sally Kate.....   what a hard week it's been for you but please don't think it's over yet.  You still have your wonderful snowbabies and I really believe it was the protocol, not you, that was the problem this time....your body just doesn't change that quickly within a couple of months.  Please take heart and see what the consultation brings.

BH....Jeus hunni, that sounds dreadful   My con also checked if I had abcesses but couldn't find anything last week.  I have to go again on Wednesday so he can see how everything is doing but it sounds as though you had an awful time of it.  Pretty sure yours must have been from EC, as you say how else could you have got it!!  Looked up on the internet and the chance of getting peritonitis following EC is 1/100,000 but there you go, if anyone's going to get it you can count on me!  Hope you get a great big mansion for all those babies you will have....and you WILL have!!!!

WE have a meeting with the clinic tomorrow (should have been to discuss ET but now it's to talk about what happened) so it'll be interesting to see if they try to deny any wrong doing.....don't think they can!  

Love to you all
Allison xx


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## Georgiepie (Aug 31, 2005)

Allison, good luck with your review tomorrow....

Love
Georgie.xx


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Hi Buddies

Hope you're doing OK?  

CG - hope the transfer went OK? You must be in the middle of your 2WW - hope it's OK and you're not climbing the walls yet?  Keeping everything crossed for you.

Allison - do hope you are well on the road to recovery now?  Was the issue adequately dealt with at your review?  Does it affect when your frosties can go back?

I've had a bit of a rollercoaster ride - it appears the game may not be quite up yet after all, and as a result (this will make you laugh), I'm heading back to my old clinic, on my new clinic's recommendation!  New clinic did do a very thorough investigation into my abandoned cycle - but no definitive explanation.  Could be an egg problem (if so, end of the line), but alternatively, it might've been the wrong protocol for me, or just a one-off bad cycle.  Only way to find out is to try again - but the suggestion is to go back to my old clinic for their protocol. And to fit in with their policy, this means putting my frosties back first (next month I hope).

Have also had a chat with my long standing consultant who agrees I should keep on trying given I'm still producing good numbers of eggs in response to stimulation.  He thinks the key issue is simply luck. (Mmm - I've never won a raffle prize in my life!).

Anyway, it feels a relief not to have been advised to stop (yet).

Trying not to think about the money...


Very best wishes


Sally Kate


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

HI girls 

Sally... great news about your follow-up and I really stand by what I said before, that it was the protocol which didn't suit you.  Your old clinic know you so well by now and I'm sure will be able to tweak things the next time but first you have your darling frosties and you know how I feel about frosties!!  Please don't give up hope and if you haven't won a raffle prize yet, then it's about time it happened!  Best of luck next month hunni      

CG....how are you doing?  Are you going   yet on the 2ww?  Keeping everything crossed for some good news very soon, what day do you test hunni?     

BH...how are you doing hunni?  Have you managed to book an appointment for a second opinion yet? 

Georgie...hope you're doing ok hunni and managed to have a relaxing weekend.

Well I am just about back to normal (whatever that means!) and already feeling frustated that I can't get going again yet!  Sally, I will have to wait until Dec before I can get my frosties back   I know it will go quickly but right now it seems a million years away.  At least they have said I can do another natural FET, which I did last time and they really are a breeze.  A couple of blood tests, one ultrasound and a Pregnyl injection to trigger....all very 'au natural' The clinic were very hedgy about the problems I had, which we had expected but they have advised us to write a letter detailing everything, so I suppose we will have to wait and see what happens.

Jo..lovely to hear from you...how are you doing hunni?  

Love to you all
Allison xx


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Hi everyone,

Sally Kate - I'm so glad your clinic hasn't said stop trying. Like Allison I really think it was the protocol at the new clinic that let you down - it just wasn't for you. Trying your frosties isn't such a bad thing and after 2 fresh cycles will be a bit easier on your body. With any luck you won't need to worry about another fresh cycle (unless you want a larger family   ) as you'll be a frostie girl 

Allison - December will be here before you know it hun so don't try to rush things. Not entirely surprised your clinic was a bit evasive. I don't expect they ever want to admit mistakes! That said hopefully they'll have learnt from it - not much comfort to you I know but given you still want to have tx there it must be difficult to know how much fuss to make. I hope they give you 5 star treatment as a minimum in December. Between now and then put your feet up and plan a nice break before you start treatment - you deserve it!

Georgie & BH - hope you're both doing ok. 

I'm half way through the 2ww and starting to wonder what if anything is happening! Scared to let myself believe this tx might have worked as I know how badly I took the last 2 BFNs. So from that point of view I just want the 2 weeks to last forever   I went back to work today so hopefully this will keep me occupied and stop me analysing every twinge   Here's hoping anyway  

CG xxxx


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Allison


Good to hear from you, and thanks for your encouraging words.  Do hope that you are feeling OK? Must be frustrating having to wait to get hold of those frosties - but you're right, it will fly by (think how quickly those shopping days before Christmas roll past!). 

I think, if my frosties don't work out, that I may be doing a (final?) stimulated cycle in December, so we may be buddies again.  Incidentally, it's good to hear your description of a natural frozen cycle.  Low-tech sounds good after a couple of fresh cycles in quick succession - best of all no headaches from down-regging.

BH - my situation hasn't putting you of getting a second opinion!  And to be fair, the new clinic has waded in to help ensure I get the treatment I want from the old clinic, so they have added some value!  

I'm away for a bit now, but best wishes to everyone, especially CG.  Will be thinking about you.


Sally Kate


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Buds,

Allison - December will fly in!  It's October already - how did that happen!?  You will be able to use this time to get fighting fit for your xmas frosties!  That's great that you will be able to do a natural FET too.

Sally Kate - great news about your clinic - they must feel positive in order to suggest going back to your old clinic to repeat the more successful protocol.  It's good that they acknowledge that it could have just been a one-off bad cycle.  Some clinics (including my current one it would seem!) seem to give up too easily if you ask me.

CG - thinking of you and sending heaps of        .  Keep us posted - we are here for you.

Well, got my appointment at the other clinic for the 2nd opinion - it's in 3 weeks time.  I'm so scared that they will just agree with the current clinic, and tell us we've got 2% chance and to give up.  My FSH was just 8.3 last time, so surely that is worth fighting for!!  I know neither eggs fertilised but at the previous cycle 'both' fertilised, so why can't that happen again!  Anyway, we will see.  At least DH will be with me this time.

Speak soon

BH xx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

CG,

So very sorry to hear about your BFN    

Thinking of you

xxx


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Hi BH, Allison and CG,

Just a quick hello - hope everyone is doing OK?

I'm limbering up ready to have my two frosties put back next month (boo hoo - would rather be hanging on to them, but clinic is insisting I use them before undertaking a (final?) fresh cycle).

Thinking of you

Sally Kate


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

Hi girls 

Sally....so pleased to hear you are having your frosties put back.  Yes I know it is reassuring to have some in the freezer but better that they become your babies!  Lots of questions!  Are you having medicated or natural FET? When will you have ET?  You really will find FET a breeze after IVF, it is far less evasive and your body feels in a much better state to receive your little ones.

Will be keeping everything crossed for you hunni     

CG....how are you doing hunni?  Have you had your follow-up yet?

BH...any news hunni?

I've been very up and down but there are lots of 'dates' at the moment that I have to get through.  Trying to keep busy and not will the time away tooo much before I can have my frosties back.  At least I've lost 2 kg's and I'm hoping some more will disappear before December or I won't be able to fit into any of my clothes soon!!  It's great having a huge wardrobe of things you can't wear!  It's getting very wintery over here and we have to get our car's fitted with winter tyres next week (   ) It's nice being able to light a fire in the evenings though.  

Hope everyone is doing well  
Much love
Allison xxx


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## Bright Eyes (Sep 28, 2007)

Hi Girls,
Having an early morning scan of the threads before another hard day at the office!
Wondering if I can join you all in here as another " golden oldie"!!
I am ( hopefully) going to go ahead with starting natural FET in the next week or so. AF due but as first natural one since last BFN , anyone's guess when it might exactly decide to come! Could be any day !
I, llike some of you, were told that I needed to go for FET ( we only have 3 , so only one shot) before another fresh cycle. I don't think it was for any reason other than the consutlant said I could get on with it right away, where as with another ICSI I'd have to wait till the new year. He said no point in wasting time over next few months!! he said that " saving them for a rainy day" brings a false sense of security as no guarantee they will survive anyway.  Part of me still wonders if this is too soon and should have waited for a second natural AF but suppose he is the " expert"? 
I know that the chances of all three surving the thaw is remote but have been having a dilemna about if they did, would I ask for all three to go back. Again, the rational bit of me says that this would best and the chances of all three sticking are virtally below O, but then I have a nightmare about me being the rare exception!( I don't usually do " normal" and have already had 3 very vey rare types of health conditions over last few years!) Twins run in our family anyway and I then worry what if they all divide and I end up with 6!!! Must be the hormones as don't usually dream or get in a stew about things!!
I have had no conversaton with Consultant or Nurse about success of ICSI going down with repeat attempts for older women. I have responded as well as expected to the drugs, had good quality embryos ( 11 eggs last time, 9 were fertilised, 2 went back, 3 frozen and 4 did not grow enough ) 
He says it really is a matter of luck, just like the lottery or the premium bonds ( I wish for the latter as all this is clearing out the piggy bank!) As the clinic wait is so long, we would have been in mid 40's by time we'd even have had an appointment and so ahve had to self-find everything. I think that stinks! I was going to write to PCT to complain and see if they would at least fund the drugs. Not my fault that their damn list is so long!
Thanks for Reading!
Good Luck to you all
Bright Eyes


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Sally Kate,
That's great about having your frosties back next month!  The time will fly now!

Allison,
Not long for you now either - Dec is just round the corner!  I know what you mean about clothes not fitting - me too!  I lost alot of weight last year with having my op, but have put it on recently...and have just had to go out and buy some 'fat' trousers, as I was fed up of trying to make do until I'd lost some weight again!  I blame tx, although not sure I put weight on like this for the other times...

CG,
How are you?  Hope you're ok

Bright Eyes,
Hi, nice to meet you!  Your cons certainly sounds keen for you to go ahead with FET quite quickly.  Make sure it is what you want though and that you are ready.  I had the same thoughts as you when having to wait and hear whether embies have survived the thaw or not - there is nothing that can make it any easier is there.  I think the success rate is something like 70% though, so keep positive as you have 3 lovely frosties waiting!  Best of luck and keep us posted.

Had my '2nd opinion' yesterday - you may see other post on this thread, as my head is just spinning at the moment   as I've no idea what to do at all....  Both options are so scary - I just want to curl up in a ball right now and forget about it, but unfortunately no can do!!! 

BH xxx


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

Hi girls 

Bright Eyes...lovely to have you on this board and best of luck with your FET.  I am a total FET fan as it is so much less evasive on your body. Will you be having medicated or natural?  In terms of how many to put back, it's really up to you at the end of the day but for my next FET I've asked them to defrost 4 and they will put up to 4 back. In the States I believe they put up to eight back in us oldies as the chances of them all taking are very slim (although I have to say not impossible!).  I've got pg with a singleton when I've had 3 put back (aged 40) and a singleton plus a sac with 2 going back (aged 41).

Sally...hope you're doing ok...do you know when you'll have you little ones back yet?

BH...hunni, I've answered your other thread but I just wanted to give you a BIG 

CG...how are you doing hunni?

Well, all go here at the moment!  It was DH's birthday yesterday so bang went the diet when we went and had a Chinese    It's also his last day at work today as he starts a new job on the 1st Nov     I also got an interview arranged yesterday morning for a new job  which I would love to do. AND we put an offer in on a house we've had our eye on for the past year and a half, which would be a complete renovation job (eeekkk).  We've waited so long for things to turn around and at last it looks as though they are.  Roll on FET, so I can get my babies back as well!!!

Love to you all
Allison xxx


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Hi girls,

Hope you're all well.

BH - I saw your post on the other thread and have replied to you there. I hope you're feeling a little better and less confused but know how devastated you must feel at the moment. It's so tough not knowing which way to turn but as soon as you've reached a decision on which direction to take next you'll feel better. 

Sally Kate - not long to go now then! In many ways it's as well to use your frosties now - you may well be a frosties girl and not need another fresh cycle     Hopefully these little ones are you babies in the making  

Bright Eyes - welcome hun. Try not to worry about your frosties surviving the thaw - we only had 2 and both survived. If all 3 of you little ones survive I'd be tempted to have them all put back if I were you - it's bound to increase your chances.   To be honest the chance of them all sticking and dividing is small once you get to 40 so it seems a reasonable risk to take. If you're still unsure just seek your clinic's advice on the day - they can always put back the strongest 2. I've wished after every cycle that we didn't have to wait 3 months - I find the waiting really hard and would far rather crack on with the next cycle sooner. I'm sure your consultant wouldn't suggest it if he thought you'd be better off having a longer break. That said if you don't feel up to it perhaps you should ask to delay tx by a month - you need to feel ready for it and tx does take it out of you.

Allison - it sounds like you're ready for a nice fresh start all round -  your run of bad luck is over. They often say new house new baby so here's hoping that the house of your dreams and the baby you've dreamed of are just around the corner     I know you've got some difficult dates to get through hunni but you will get through them and your time will come  

I'm still trying to decide whether to go abroad or not. Reprofit looking very strong at the moment but it feels like a big step to move clinics and the safety of the UK. Silly I know. Wish I had a crystal ball  
In the meantime I 'm trying to lose weight as I too have a wardrobe full of clothes I can't get into...

Have a good weekend everyone.

CG xxxx


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## Bright Eyes (Sep 28, 2007)

Hi All. Hope that everyone is keeping spirits up out there..
Well my AF sort of came this weeknd.. it only lasted day and half ? Not really sure what that was all about. I'm never heavy or long but this was gone in  the blink of an eye.   Maybe as it was the first natural one after the ICSI? Was not like that last time though.. Has anyone else had this?
Due to start FET. Should have had a day 1 scan but then they changes their minds and said to just go in on day 10 instead ( next Tues) I'm sure that thet make it up as they go along most of the time! Will see then how the " insides lie" and if all OK, then start the wee on a stick. Has anyone found a good cheap on-line supplier ? Do you have to do them more than once a day... wonder what happends if you get a negative in the morning but then a surge in the afternoon.. how would you know? Does it make any difference?
Another journey to go on as not got that far last time.
Love to All.
Bright Eyes.


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Hi Everyone

Hope you're all doing OK?

Allison - good to hear from you.  Are you now feeling fully recovered?  I hope so as it sounds like there is a lot going on for you at the moment.  Hope the house move is on track?  Any news on when you'll be able to start a frozen cycle?

CG - thanks for your message.  I've been having a sly look at Reprofit too - although still agonising over the question of a switch to DEs if the frozen cycle doesn't work out.  And yes, also trying to lose weight.  Gained an horrendous 10lbs during last cycle (just to add insult to injury).  Wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that I was far from sylph like to start with. On these grounds alone, I never want to do a long protocol again...

Hello Bright Eyes - think I'm in a similar boat in moving swiftly to a natural FET. Seems the norm in my clinic to wait just one month following a failed fresh cycle.  Have also received similar advice in terms of luck being the single most important factor - so fingers crossed for us all!  

BH - very best wishes with your decision making.  It is difficult isn't it to know how long to carry on for?  I suspect Allison is right though that, deep down, we'll know when the time has come to stop.  But it is does demand so much, emotionally, financially etc, to keep on battling against diminshing odds (not to mention sceptical medics). 

I'm doing OK, and expecting to get my frosties back over the next week or so. I have two and am keeping everything crossed that they both make it through the thawing process.  One  bit of good news - my FSH was down to 4.5!  There's life in those ovaries yet - and hopefully at least some of it of the necessary quality!

Best wishes to you all


Sally Kate xx


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Hi everyone,

How are you all? 

Bright Eyes and Sally Kate - I hope your cycles are all going well.     

Sally Kate - well done on your FSH levels, I'm impressed  

Allison - how's the diet going? Have you managed to get back into you winter clothes yet? I hope the house buying is going well. Not long now until you start tx    

Having a bit of a spring clean here - yes I know it's November   but tx seemed to get in the way of earlier spring cleans. Now trying to have a major sort out for theraputic reasons, oh and the fact we don't know where anything is these days   Need to bring a bit more order to our lives  

CG xxxxxx


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## petdowe (Mar 17, 2006)

Girls thinking of you all
nicky


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## Bright Eyes (Sep 28, 2007)

Hi All
Hope that you have all had a good restful weekend.
I go tomorrow for day10 scan to see how things are going and whether I can look at going ahead with FET next week. Quite anxious as not sure how body has settled down since the last full treatment last month and just dreading the surge either not coming at all.. or coming on a day that makes it impossible because clinic not open everyday.  The it the " will they/ won't they" survive the defrost!I really like the idea of doing things naturally but there is so less control and certainty! I want to take  some leave to cover me for the first few days after transfer as cannot take any more sick time, but again impossible to plan and keep on telling people " not sure if I'll be in that day!" ( for any meeting requests over the next 2 weeks!!) DH trying to book a long-weekend away walking with his mates and the only one available for them would be around when I'd get any result from the FET.. but he has said that he's going to go anyway. Says that he cannot put everything on hold for " maybes", and if it was bad news he's better off keeping his self occupied!! I was speechless.. I think that this whole year has been so stressful that he can't take it any more. I wish I could but we are the ones that have to take all the chemicals, go through the EC's and transfers,take the time off work to go to appointments ( he has only ever come with me once !), get a poor sickness record for time off after treatment etc etc. Sorry girls to rant but it's been one hell of a weekend for lots of reasons that best not go into!! 
Anyway, feel better getting that of my chest!
Sally Kate - where are you up to
Alison - hope all's going well for you too. I put weight on too with the treatment. I'm normally small and have never had problem with weight but I just didn't realise what the treatment can do to you. It's been a real shock not being able to do my trousers up. I think that the comfort eating, gallons of wine and tiredness ( a good excuse no no exercise!) has not helped either.  Hope house move gone OK
CG - hope your house is clean and tidy now! I can when I am stressed and throw out things that I later regret! DH has been looking for a horrible sweater that went out earlier this year in a cleanup binge. I'm denying any knowledge of seeing it for months!
Have a good week all,
Bright Eyes


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi!

Hope you are all doing ok.

Bright Eyes - how did your scan go?  Hope all went well and that you are on track for next week.  You are absolutely bound to be anxious.  There are SO many things for us to think about when we're approaching tx, going through it, just finished...all the time.  Can completely empathise on the DH front.  My DH does also slip in similar comments sometimes and find I've got steam coming out of my ears!!  That made me laugh about your DH's jumper   

Allison - how are things?  Wow, you sound busy - but busy with great things!  What happened about the job? and the house?  Are you all set for FET next month!?

CG - any more thoughts on going abroad?  We're also going through a 'spring' cleaning phase.  When you're inbetween tx, you find a sudden burst of energy that you need to catch up on things don't you!  I've also enrolled in various exercising classes - DH is wondering where I am half the time!!

Sally Kate - wayda go with your fab FSH!!  Keeping everything crossed for you    

Well, we still haven't come to a 'final' decision yet on where we are going - I just feel I need time out.  Having said that, I've been to see the GP about getting some bloods done, because if we have one more go it'll definitely be at the new clinic and they need bloods done within the last 12 months.  So perhaps deep down I'm gearing myself for another go!?  It won't be until the new year anyway, as takes a while for blood results to come back and I'm really not ready yet.  I'm going to try to focus on getting fit, losing weight, spring cleaning, seeing friends, and having some fun time with DH - not necessarily in that order!

Take care all and 'speak' soon

BH xx


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Bright Eyes, I hope your scan went well today and that you're one step closer to those frosties    It's such a frustrating worrying time and with all those hormones flying about it's no wonder you're finding your DH difficult to live with at the moment! They really don't understand the full impact these cycles have on us girls   Suggest you try and sort a good night out or a weekend away with a friend or friends yourself - it'll give you something to focus on other than throttling your DH.   You could probably both do with some quality time away from each other  

BH - sounds to me like you're gearing up for another cycle - no-one has blood tests done for fun   The new year will be here before you know it so just enjoy yourself for a change! My focus on getting fit and losing weight hasn't resulted in any weight loss so far. Still can't seem to give up the chocolate or sitting on the sofa  

CG xxxxx


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## Bright Eyes (Sep 28, 2007)

Hi Girls. Only a " quicke" as dashing offf ot work.. only intended to log onto to swap some monies at the bank... but this site always draws you in!
Had day 10 scan yesterday but lining not thick enough and no leading follicle. Not sure if it's because I'm due a longer cycle this month or body not settled down since ICSI as was only in Sept. Have to go back on Friday for another scan.. so fingers crossed. It's a nightmare trying to plan my diary at work though! really want to do this next week as if not will wait till new year. I really don't want to do in December cycle as want to have a Christmas wihtout worrying about it all. Thanks for the reassuring noises about DH insensitivity .. he's working away now for 3 days each week so we'll see if absence help any!!! Saying that, last night he got in a stew as I could still not tell him what day he might need time off next week to take me for transfer.  Not my fault scan didn't give us any clues. I told him I'd get the bus!!!  Oh, dear.. you've started me off again! Better go to work whilst the going is good or will be here all day!
Have a good day all of you! 
Bright Eyes


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Hi Everyone

Hope you're all Ok?

Bright Eyes - hope all goes well at your next scan.  I definitely think I have ovulated late in the past following treatment cycles.  Did they do bloods as well, to check oestrogen levels?  I ask because at my 10 day scan they couldn't see a lead follicle and started talking about anovulatory cycles.  But when I phoned later for results, they said 'you're ready!' on the basis of a big rise in my oestrogen level.  They think the big follicle was hiding in my left ovary which seems to have gone in to permanent hiding following this year's treatment cycles (I know how it feels).  I've done an HCG trigger shot, with xfer in a few days  all being well (fingers crossed).  Incidentally, do any of you think it is dodgy proceeding on the basis of blood results alone?

CG - hope all is well with you?  Spring cleaning sounds cathartic - glad you've got your energy back - this process is so draining.  Any more thoughts on the abroad or not question? 

BH -good luck with your decision making.  Sounds as though you've got some good stuff planned leading into the new year.


Allison - hi, hope you are well?  I can see now why you are a fan of FET's - so far so much less invasive than a fresh cycle - what a relief!  Are you planning to start a cycle before Xmas?

Hope I haven't missed anyone.

Best wishes


Sally Kate


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## Bright Eyes (Sep 28, 2007)

Only a " quicke" as have to get off to work early!
Feeling really fed up today.  Had a surge on Sunday and went for a scan yesterday. Can't go ahead with FET as womb lining not thick enough.  It was 4 on Friday and 6.5 yesterday. The clinic say that they won't do if below 8mm. It's all so confusing as some clinic don't even scan and let people go ahead based on the surge or bloods alone. I know that you have to trust that they are the experts and it's not worth risking the " frosties" in a less than satisfactory environment... but it's hard. DH says that they are doing it too make money as now we'll have to pay for this monitoring and then another lot! They have not said that I need to do anything just to try again next month and see if any better. 
Not going to bother next month . As much as I want to, the 2ww would be over Xmas with a test date xmas week. I think that it will be too stressful and take the fun out of the holiday time. Have to revert to the old fashioned method for next month!  Will wait now till Jan. Just want to get another go in before another birthday in Feb!
Hope everone else Ok
Bright eyes.


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Hi Girls - just a quickie tonight as really tired and off to bed in a mo, but before I go I wanted to say so sorry to hear your cycles been cancelled Bright Eyes.    Can't you carry on the oestrogen and allow a few more days for your lining to thicken? I'm no expert on FETs so sorry if it's a daft question but I thought this would be a possibility.

Don't blame you for not wanting to do a December cycle though. Our first IVF test day was Boxing Day last year and it was the pits! I knew it had failed by Christmas Eve and had to entertain family.... If you really do need to postpone and start again January sounds the better option. That way you can enjoy Christmas and have the odd drink with everyone else. 

Sally Kate - good luck, will be keeping everything crossed for you    

CG xxxxx


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## Bright Eyes (Sep 28, 2007)

Hi CG
Wasn't on any meds. Have decided to speak to clinic  and ask if I can have a scan next month even though we are not going ahead with the tranfer. That way I'll know if there is a potential problem with lining. If so, then I want to medicate so that I'm not in the same position and wasting another month ( and money!) in January.
Def not going to have a 2ww over Xmas.We fly about to family , end up sleeping on camp beds etc Also, have 3 teenage nehews/niece and the inlaws to contend with and a large G&T is the only things that makes it manageable!
Feeling bit mroe chilled about it todaty. What will be will be and it was obviously not the right month again for us.
Sally Kate. How are you going??
Well of to work now , Have a good day all of you 
Bright Eyes.


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Hi everyone

Bright Eyes - sorry to hear about the cancelled cycle - so frustrating!  Glad at least that you'll get to enjoy Christmas.  Beginning to think there is a lot to be said for medicated FTET.  Have had a bit of a rollercoaster with this natural cycle.  Did trigger shot, on basis of bloods, but was pretty sure I ovulated 24-36 hours later than planned.  I phoned the clinic who cancelled the cycle.  However, the next day they phoned back unexpectedly to say we should go ahead, but a day later than planned (in fact two days later because of weekend).  I agonised a lot over this - both because of the uncertainty about timing, and the extra day.  We went ahead in the end, chiefly because they won't let us do a fresh cycle until we've used the frosties (and time is running out).  Only one of the embies made it through the thaw and that has been transferred now.  Fingers crossed!

Hope everyone is doing ok?


Sally Kate


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## Bright Eyes (Sep 28, 2007)

Sally Kate
Sounds like you have had a nightmare!  Natural seems to  mean lots more stress and uncertainty. I really wanted to go ahead as, like you, feel that don't have time to waste. Like you, have also been told that need to use the frosties before we can do another fresh cycle. I wanted to do a fresh one to get as many as possible in the bank whilst able to make them but the clinic did not agree.
I have tried to ring clinic but noone got back to me today   to ask for a scan next month to check in lining so don't waste time in the new year. I am sorely tempted to just ask for medicated as don't think the results differ.
Fingers crossed that this will be it for you and that little one is making itself comfortable in it's new home. 
Hope everyone else doing OK ?
Bright Eyes.


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Hi Bright Eyes - yes I'd be tempted to go for a medicated cycle next time that way you won't be worrying that your body isn't playing ball. In the meantime at least you'll have the G&T to look forward to when you see your in laws and nieces and nephews - teenagers, who'd have em eh   

Sally Kate - wishing you loads of luck honey. I hope it's snuggling in and making itself comfortable    Sending you and your precious cargo   and 
   

CG xxxxxx


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## BH (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi All - hope you're all doing ok?

BrightEyes, really sorry to hear about your cancelled cycle.  As you say, it obviously wasn't the right time for you and you can now take some time out, and get re-energised for the new year.

Sally Kate - how you are doing?  Sending you heaps of    

CG, Allison - hope you are both well and having fun(?) on the lead up to xmas.

I think we will have our final final attempt in the new year, Jan or Feb, and then if not successful, go for adoption.  At being told we have under 2% chance, we are not expecting to get very far (I know it's best to be positive but I'm also having to be realistic) and it will be a bonus if we get to ET - but just feel that we would like to give it one more shot with this new clinic.  We've now been to a couple of information evenings at adoption agencies, so feel that we are taking things forward and that feels positive    I'm feeling a little bit worried about the timing of the next attempt, as bang in the middle of a huge deadline...but hey...what can I do - this is more important and work will have to survive if I need to take some time off.

BH xx


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Hi CG, BH and Bright Eyes,

Hope you're all doing OK?

Sorry not to have posted for a while - I've had a bit of a difficult time.  My frozen cycle didn't work out, but I went on to do a fresh cycle back to back at my original clinic.  I became pregnant with twins, and although things looked promising initially, sadly went on to lose them at 9 and 12 weeks respectively.  I didn't dare post whilst pregnant; it felt like tempting fate, given my history of miscarriage. I really thought we might make it this time...

Anyway - we're trying to figure out what to do next.  I'm not sure whether I have the nerve for another round of IVF with my own eggs, and am worried about conserving our resources (emotional and financial) for a potential shot with donor eggs (although we're both still thinking through the issues linked with this option).  However, after our 'success' in getting pregnant, the clinic suggests one more go with my eggs.  I'm waiting for test results -  and have already been through extensive tests for recurrent miscarriage.

Not sure if anyone else has had better luck?  Wishing you all the best on your journeys.


Sally Kate xx


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## Bright Eyes (Sep 28, 2007)

HI Sallykate,
So very very to hear about your losses .. it must have been devastating and frustrating for you. You have to take the clinics advise on anything further but also go with your own heart and head...
I am nearly at the end of another 2ww and don't feel positive.. test on Saturday. We did not do as welll this time.. had 10 eggs,7 able to be ISCI'd, 5 fertilised, 3 back ( one 5/6 cell and 2 of 2 )and the other 2 did not continue to divide so they did not freeze them. I had about 21 follies so had goped for a few more . If this does not work out we'll look at one more shot but I think that I'm going to look at another clinic nearby .. at Manchester. I feel that mine is a bit complacement and there's lots more they could be suggesting. They don't do blasts or assisted hatching as an option and you always get to see the Nurse not the Consultant. Anyway, lets see what the weekend brings.
Wishing you all the best and the strength to carry on,
Bright Eyes


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Dear Sally Kate,

I'm so sorry for your losses, I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for you    Like Bright Eyes says you really need to listen to your heart and head on what you do next. It's got to be your decision as well as the clinics at the end of the day but hopefully the test results will make the decision more clear for you. The fact the clinic has said you should do another cycle with your own eggs is promising but if you feel you've only got enough emotional reserves to go through all of this a limited number of times you might want to consider the donor route. That's what made my mind up in the end - I couldn't keep going through IVF for a 10% or less chance of success. We're currently in the middle of a donor cycle and praying this will work. For me it's having a baby at the end of this that's the most important thing not having one that's genetically mine, but it is a difficult decision to make. Wishing you the very best of luck with your decision - if you need to chat things through at any time you know where we are. 

Bright Eyes - good luck hun I really hope you get a strong positive result on Saturday. This part of the 2ww is so difficult. Sending you  and        

CG xxxxx


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Cotswold Girl and Bright Eyes


So good to hear from both of you - thank you for your messages.  Very, very best wishes with both your cycles - exciting to hear you are both in the thick of it.  

Bright Eyes - very best wishes for Saturday.  I got my BFP on the cycle with my smallest response (not sure if there is a tension sometimes between quantity and quality for us oldies?) so try not to be too disappointed - getting three embies to transfer sounds like a good result.  Hopefully the question of a change of clinic will be entirely academic, but if not, I've heard good things about Care Manchester.

Cotswold Girl - good luck with the donor cycle.  I know exactly what you mean about keeping on going with your own eggs with dwindling odds.  My brain knows that the logical thing to do is move on immediately - but I'm still wrestling with the emotional side a bit.  Am going to see a Counsellor next week to try and work this through some more.  Up until now I thought I would keep on trying to beat the odds until time runs out completely, but am now reaching a point where I feel I need to try and resolve the situation, rather than staying on the roller coaster for a longer-term period.  I'm really interested in your experience making the transition to donor eggs?  Sorry to be nosy, but have you found this OK so far and have you found a good clinic?

Keep everything crossed for both of you


Sally Kate xx


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## Bright Eyes (Sep 28, 2007)

Just to let you know that AF has made it's way. Heavy spotting today and that well known ache...so guess that's over for us.
not sure what our next plan of action will be. Thinking of changing to a Manchester clinic for summer and giving it one last shot.
Bright Eyes


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Dear Bright Eyes,

Don't give up hope yet. It's not necessarily over if you're not due to test until Saturday     I know it's difficult to think otherwise if you've started to spot already but there's still a chance you've tested too early.

Good luck and very best wishes, CG xxxxx


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Dear Sally Kate,

Deciding to move onto donor eggs isn't easy so talking it through with a counsellor will sounds a good idea.  All I can say is that you need to be as sure as you can be that you won't look back with regret that you didn't give it one last shot with your own eggs before you make the move. 

For me my decision was driven by my fibroids as much as anything. Because of them my window of opportunity for any pregnancy could be limited - 2 more fibroids have appeared since last year and there's every chance that more could appear or that the 3 I've got will grow and stop me having any more IVF attempts. 

I trust the clinic I'm with and they helped clarify things for me by saying I had a good chance of getting pregnant with donor eggs. Let's hope they were right  

CG xxxx


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Dear Bright Eyes,

I've just read that your BFN was confirmed. So sorry     

CG xxx


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

HI girls

I've just read your last few posts and I couldn't run without sending you all my love.

Sally Kate...I'm so sorry hunni to hear your news.  How devastating after everything you've gone through     What protocol did they put you on this time?  I can't remember but have you had all the immune tesing done?

Bright Eyes...so sorry to hear about your BFN.  Please take care    

CG...keeping everything crossed for you hunni     

All ok with me, have been getting back to normal and not worrying about tx at the moment, although I have been busy getting a new gynae and seeing a specialist in London.  Have at long last found a wonderful gynae in Luxembourg who actually understands immune problems and is actively working with me.  I've just found out I've a hypothyroid and am booked in to see a specialist in a weeks time to sort out my medication. Feel so relieved that at long last someone has listened to me and we have something to work on.  I've also been to see an amazing guy in London called Trevor Wing, who is quite unique in that he works in a totally natural way but also combines it with modern techniques like immune testing.  I had a HyCoSY done two weeks ago and he has confirmed that my tubes are actually open, (I was told two years ago that they were blocked and my only chance was with IVF!!).  I am waiting for some immune results to come back and then he will start me on herbal tonic, which will also help with my thyroid.  Trevor is so caring and relaxed and he REALLY listens to you.  I feel as though he is putting together the missing pieces of why I have had so many failed IVF and m/c when I finally get pg. If you want to find out more about him his website is www.naturalgynae.com and his practice is called The Woman's Natural Health Practise.  I'm trying not to think about time as I know I have to get these problems sorted out before I can think about tx again.  Both my gynae and Trevor think I could concieve naturally once they have sorted me out...I suppose time with tell!!

I'm sorry if I haven't been around to support you all.  I hope you understand but I needed some time to get my head straight. I'd also got to the point where I was spending hours and hours on here instead of getting on with my work!!  I'll try and do better!!

Sending you all my love 
Allison xxx

/links


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Dear Allison Kate, 

Welcome back   After all you've been through it's no wonder you needed time out to regroup. It's lovely to have you back though. 

I'm also pleased that you're feeling positive about things again and have found people you trust to help sort things out. Wonderful news too that both think you could conceive naturally. I really hope you succeed without having to go through IVF again, so many do after giving IVF up so  you're one of them.    

Thanks to for the info on the chap you're seeing in London - I think I'll have to check Trevor out if this cycle fails.

CG xxxx


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Cotswold Girl

So sorry about your disappointing news.  It's so hard - I'm thinking about you.

Very best wishes


Sally Kate xx


Allison Kate


Really good to hear from you - things sound very positive, and the holistic approach of your London practitioner is really interesting (the lovely specialist nurse practitioner at my clinic has said on more than one occasion that we tend to overestimate the extent to which conventional fertility treatment understands and influences reproductive outcomes!).  Good luck with the immune testing.  You asked whether I had gone down this route? Well I've had extensive tests for recurrent miscarriage, including an Lupus/APS tests and an endometrial biopsy to check NK cells.  However, I haven't gone down the Chicago tests path - partly because I am not 100% sure about the science, but also beacuse I have major reservations about IVIG treatment.  What sort of immune testing are you having?  Good luck and very best wishes for your journey.  I know a couple of people who have conceived after having given up on IVF!!


Sally Kate xx


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## Bright Eyes (Sep 28, 2007)

HI there. Glad to see that some of us are still plugging away at treatment - the conventional and unconventional. I went back a couple of weeks ago and age given again as the main factor. DH can be a bit borderline but nothing that should make a difference. I was quite frustrated as had 4 grade 1 and 2 grade 2 eggs that divided well.. so on the surface all looked good. He says that there is no telling what they do on the inside.
I keep asking why, if no real reason, not happened on it's own. I know that age is a factor now but wasn't when we started trying at 35.. and I've never even had a sniff of a BFP.
He was reluctant but has taken bloods for clotting and waiting for the NK test. Hope that can do it next month ( trouble is only one Dr does it and if she is off or busy on the " right" day you have to wait till next month... bit like natural FET!). I am just curious as to whether there is a reason behind all of this.
I also go to Accupunture and Chineese medicine now. Found a chap that has done fertility work for 20+ yes. Nothing to lose. He says that some research shows that this combination has nearly the same success rates as IVF in older women... At least I feel that I am doing something whilst waiting for everything else.
Lots of Love and Best Wishes
Bright Eyes


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

Hello girls

Sending big hugs to you all       

Yes it is certainly so frustrating when the only thing they can tell you is that it's because of your age!  My new gynae won't let me talk about my age, he says my FSH is of a 30 year olds and that's what we're going to talk about from now on!!!  It's nice to be with someone who looks for other factors rather than just age!

I've had my results back from the tests in London and have had some interesting things thrown up.  My NK cells are slightly higher than they should be and Trevor is giving me some medicinal mushrooms to take for three months to lower them (they use them in the Far East a lot to lower immune problems). He's also giving me herbal tonic to improve my lining and egg quality and we'll look again in three months to see what's happening.  By that time the thyroid medication should hopefully have kicked in and be doing its job properly.  But the interesting thing is that DH and I share a similar genetic strain, (DQ Alpha testing).  Can't believe it as he's Dutch and I'm English but it just goes to show you don't really know who your ancestors are (!).  I know I have some Viking blood in me from somewhere or other so we can only deduce that one of my ancestors must have pillaged his family's village at some point in history!  Trevor wants us to see an immune specialist and it looks as though the only answer to this is LIT.  Don't really want to go down that route but if it's the one thing that's stopping us from having our family then so be it!  At least I feel as though there are real reasons why we are not conceiving but that they are treatable.  We talked about whether I should go for another IVF and he thinks that if we do it should be natural IVF, not medicated. We'll come to a decision in three months time.

Sally...I know what you mean about IVIG, that's why I'm so pleased to have found Trevor who takes a holistic approach to immune problems.  If you want more info onthe Chicago tests, please let me know as it might be cheaper for you to do them on your own and then go to someone like Trevor who will sort out the treatment for them.

Bright Eyes...I'm so glad you've found someone who is so experienced with acu and herbs.  It seems to make so much more sense than being bombarded with drugs, especially when they haven't done all the tests to find out it there's an underlying cause to the problems.  Don't get me wrong, I think IVF is amazing and modern medicine too, but I sometimes wish they wouldn't throw it at you quite so quickly but instead take time to see if there are other possibilites first.

CG...hope you're doing ok hunni and taking it one day at a time     Please IM me if you want to talk....thinking about you  

Love to everyone

Allison xxx


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## starfish3 (May 19, 2007)

Hi All

Just wanted to comment about Donor Eggs. I have a beautiful 3 month old son Jaxson, from donor egg and donor sperm ie. neither myself nor DP are genetically related to him. Which is not smething that ever crosses my mind... I am bonded to him after yearning for him, growing and birthing him.. of course I dont have genetic children to compare my feelings with but I dont honestly tihink it would be any different. Love is the main thing and we have plenty of that.

I do have 3 other children (now 13, 15 and 24) that I have parented for 11 and 15 years respectively - the eldest is the daughter of my (female) partner but the teens are not ours biologically... again not something that is ever an issue.

Both of our donors are known dear friends of ours and Jaxson will grow up with them in his life and will know what they have done for us when he can understand. The biolgocial mother of our teens doesnt want to k2now about them and hasnt had custody of them since age 3 and 4 after abuse/neglect since before their births... as I say I honestly feel that love and wanting children are the most important things.... my 4 kids are mine despite lack of genetic connection.

Glad to discuss further if anyone is keen.... 

Anyway birthed my first baby at 45 so dont give up... still cry about every 3rd day because I just cant believe he is a reality after waiting so long.... hoping for a brother or sister for him (some one near his own age because our friends all have older children)... 6 frozen embies in Australia... hoping to start trying 6 months after caesarian

Cheers
Sharyn, New Zealand


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Hi Everyone

Sorry not to have been around lately.  After losing the twin pregnancy, we were advised to quickly do a final cycle.  Ended up being a bit of logistical mess (DH away - problems with poor quality frozen sample - ICSI etc) and resulted in a BFN.  

To be honest, I feel crushed to have hit the end of the line with treatment with my own eggs, and an overwhelming sense of loss for the babies we've lost along the way.  At the same I know I have been very lucky indeed to have my gorgeous girl who is growing up fast.

We're weighing up our options and seriously considering the DE route.  Thanks Starfish for your inspiring post.

Allison Kate - how are you doing with the holistic treatment for immune issues?

Hi CG, Bright Eyes and BH - hope all is well with you?

Best wishes


Sally Kate


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Starfish, What an amazing story! Congratulations on your recent addition to your family.   

Sally Kate - welcome back   Sorry  you're feeling so down if we can help in any way just ask. Sending you a big cyber hug...I'm sure DE will give you a good chance of success given that you've already got a daughter so once you're ready go for it honey. 

Allison Kate, BH, Bight Eyes - hope you're all well.

I'm still waiting for MRI results (it's been over 2 weeks since I had it and I'm going   wondering it things are ok or not). It's either another round of DE or adoption for us. Really not sure which at the moment as I keep changing my mind from one week to the next.  

Just watched the mens singles at Wimbledon - what a match! 

CG xxxx


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## Bright Eyes (Sep 28, 2007)

Hi All. I am waiting for an appointment at a new clinic. Had NK back and those were within normal limits. We think that we will give it one last shot in Sept but try a new clinic as I have too many negative feelings attatched to our current one ( although no complaints about them).  On the accupuncture and herbs in the meanwhile but no luck on the natural score! Let you know how it goes, Bright Eyes


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

Hi girls 

As always, sorry for not being around so much! but bless you for thinking of me  

Sally Kate....so sorry to hear you are feeling down.  It must have hit you hard, especially after losing your little ones....big hugs to you hunni 

CG...hope you get your results soon....as I'm so bad at catching up on everyone's news these days, I'm not sure why you have had a MRI but hope it's nothing too sinister and that all's well.  Did you ever contact Trevor?  Tough decision about adoption or donor, can you pursue both routes at the same time?  We have no chance of adopting because one of us need to be German to even be able to apply    Sending you a big hug hunni    

Bright Eyes...best of luck with your new clinic and good news about your NK's.  Will be keeping everything crossed for September.  Keep practising you never know what might happen naturally!!   

I'm doing ok over here and feel a million times better since I've started with the thyroid tablets. I'm doing a monitored cycle in August and then we'll see what happens, feel frustrated that nothing has happened naturally (yet!) but dr said that it would take three/four months for the thyroid tablets to sort out my hormones properly.  Debating whether or not to do a last IVF in either Sep or Oct (would be almost a year since my last one) and have asked to go on the donor list as well.....so....keeping my options open.  Just need a miracle to happen first!!!

Have started freelancing and have so much work I don't know how to fit it all in but at least it means I can start buying shoes again!!

Love and oddles of   to you all
Allison xxx


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