# Veteran Barbies - No PMA advice required, thanks!



## kitten77

hi there

i got my 6th failed tx this morning.   

but we had a day 4 transfer (longest we have gone) with good grade embroys.  we were so positive this time.  alas, it didnt work again.

i was on dhea up until ec, and on aspirin months before tx started, clexane, the steriods (predestone ?? sp??) which was 10mg per day, and on gestrone injections.....still failed with 2 good grade embroys on day 4.

i have NEVER been pregnant or even had implantation - what is wrong with me?

running out of hope and money.....


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## Nordickat

Oh Kitten.  I'm so so sorry. I know how much it hurts   and I feel your pain I really do   . I can understand that loss of hope all too well.

We have spoken before, last time we both had BFNs I supsect   and I'm so sad to be talking to you again here and not in a bump thread.

I guess we just have to keep on fighting, what else can we do hey? Don't give up all hope, there are still options for you, you just need to take some time to get through your grief before you can think about where to go next. 

You are in my thoughts, 
Katxxx


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## Nordickat

I've just read your thread title properly. There really is nothing you are doing wrong soplease don't beat yourself up. You did all you could and I I know you will have given thid cycle everything you had. You did nothing wrong


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## beachgirl

Kitten. so so sorry to hear that this cycle hasn't worked...wish that I could wave a magic wand and make everything better..x Take time to grieve and remember why the two of you are together, maybe go away for a few days or just spend some time out walking...always helped me x


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## kitten77

Nordickat - unfortantlly yes we spoke last BFN we have had, god how many between us hey!!!!!!!  so sorry to hear of your bfn too. it is unfair.

i was just so angry again this morning, first time we have ever got to OTD so we were positive, unfortantly it wasnt ment to be again. we feel we have done our best, healthy eating, no drinking at all etc etc. but nothing.  sometimes wonder why we bother really!

dont really know what our options are at the moment.  we have enough money to go one more, but i know for certain that we will be going to a different clinic, we have been to the same clinic for the past 6 times, so time for a change me thinks.

what stage are you at?


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## Nordickat

I actually consider myself a professional IVF'er now   

If you didn't bother with all the detox boring healthy living you would just beat yourself up even more about a BFN. At least you can shed your tears knowing you did all you can and with no regrets - thats more important than you realise right now.

We are trying donor sperm next. Success rates are higher with a donor and we are running out of options. Donor eggs are illegal here otherwise I think we'd have just gone donor embie. Nuture is more important to me than nature but I know its not for everyone.

Was that your first cycle with all the immunes treatment? Maybe this time round it really was just bad luck. You got to test day this time so maybe you just need one more shot at it    .

It sucks, its really does and I know it doesn't help to know I understand how you feel, but I do.
 Katxxx


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## kitten77

hey - yer i think you are right, if i hadnt done all i thot i could then it would be worse thanks for that.

havent spoken about donor eggs or sperm really.  still have hope that we will have 'ours' but its not out of the question.  

where are you then if you are allowed donor sperm but not eggs? how does DH feel about it?

no not the first tx with immune treatment, but is the first with the gestone injections. we have had quite a bit of bad luck between us havent we!!


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## Nordickat

Its a bit bonkers being allowed donor eggs and not sperm isn't it   I'm in Norway and even donor sperm has only been allowed for a few years due to campaigns by same sex couples. It'll be a few years yet before donor eggs are possible I think.

DH is fine about the donor issue. After our first BFN, a really horrid dr said donor was the only option. I have no idea who she was as I never saw her again and nobody ever mentioned using a donor again so who knows where it came from. But, it did mean we started thinking/talking about it 5 years ago. We have also been through the adoption process, completely different I know, but again the issue of children not being biologically ours was dealt with there too. I am slightly apprehensive about using a donor if I'm honest, but we are a very long way away from actually being parents so I'll wait for a BFP before I worry too much. In my heart I know it would be fine, there are just a few small concerns I have. Of course the biggest issue is actually getting pg in the first place.

I reall hope the progesterone jabs are the answer for you and that this time was just unlucky. Have a glass of wine and squeeze each other tight. We have to both believe that if we keep on fighting, one day we will win.

 Katxxx

PS. DH is also in full support of donor sperm as it means I have stoppped pumping him full of pills and banning him from drinking


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## kitten77

bit strange that sperm allowed but not eggs! that is bonkers. 

so dh is fine about donor?  can i ask why donor is an option? the things is we get embroys but they never implant, so it must be something to do with me. is this a problem you had? 

with the adpotion route...did you find that wasnt for you?

thats the thing isnt it, you have to weight up the pros and cons, the fact of the matter is that we have never got a bfp, so actually being a mum seems so far off. 

if these questions are to personal please dont answer or pm me?

we have both been on the loads and loads of vits, spent a fortune! but have stopped taking them now. havent drunk since xmas so will be having some drinks of sat when dh takes me shopping. 

feel bit better than this morning, but still feel angry that it happens so easily for other people, and even beginning to feel jealous of people who ivf work for! how bad is that. but think just feeling sorry for myself to be honest.


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## Nordickat

DH has been pushing for using a donor for the last couple of cycles and each time I have resisted. Now we both know we have to try something new. 2 clinics and 2 protocols and still no sticky bean. Our problem is a bit different though, we get plenty of eggs but only on 2 occassions did we get good fertilization rates, and on all occasions we had average to poor quailty embies by transfer day and only ever 2 embies survived. The problem must be with either eggs or sperm and as we can´t try other eggs we are going for other sperm. I´m still very doubtful it will work but feel we have to try it before I can get closure.

As for adoption, I don´t mind talking about it in the annonymous FF world. There is no within country adoption here so we have to adopt abroad which is fine but the waiting lists are years long  . We were approved and were waiting and then my depression (which I had hidden) got out of control and I could no longer ignore it. Once I had seeked help, my Dr was obliged to report it to the adoption people and it meant we had to go through the assessment process again. There was no way I could have dealt with a rejection if they had decided my depression made me an unsuitable mother, so we withdrew our papers before riskng any more damage to my mental health. 

Back to you though, as you always bleed early then maybe it is just some extra progesterone you need and it just wasn´t meant to be this time. Now you know that the gestane works, maybe you can go into your last cycle feeling relaxed knowing that everything is just perfect and you just need a dose of good luck. You have waited long enough so it must be tine for your luck to change.

Feeling jealous of others success is normal I think when you have just got your BFP. In a few days you´ll be pleased for them all, it just because yur sadness is so intense today. Give yourself time. Have a good shop, a nice lunch out and a few glasses of wine. You deserve it.

Be kind to yourself though and don´t feel bad about jealous feelings, you are only human and you are hurting.

Katxxx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Hi Kitten    I'm so sorry about your result.    I remember you from KnOCT up ladees. 

What tests have you done? Have you seen a urologist for the sperm? I'm not sure where you live but we saw a brilliant one in london, we did karyotype tests (which you can do with your clinic) and other tests on DH. It was found he has a chromosomal problem so our only hope was donor sperm. (which worked!)   

Have you stayed with the same clinic? what have they said about it? I would quiery the bleeding before test day. 

But remember you have done NOTHING wrong    

Don;t feel bad for feeling jealous of others success, i still do    (natural pg anyway)


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## kitten77

*kat* - so dh didnt have a problem with the donor sperm? as in does it ever cross his mind that wouldnt biologically be his sperm? im trying to put myself in his shoes to see if it was the other way round how would i feel, and i think i would be ok if i could carry.

as for the adoption, im sorry that you felt that they wouldnt allow it due to depression, i didnt realise that that would be a no no. (dont it annoy you when people are popping them out like sweets and mistreating them, but people arnt allowed to adopt!)

to be honest, im glad that got to test date, but dont really give me that much hope seeing this was the 6th one, i still believe it has something to do with implantation problems, glad had the steriods, clexane etc etc but still gutted that it hasnt worked again, when people talk about stats i should be well on the way to babylife, but if it is luck then we have really really bad luck.

i do feel bad for thinking bad of others bfp, just jealous i know that, but still dont kill me inside when its everyone else but not me.

hi *mighty mini* - thanks for your kind words. im afraid i have been on many threads but yes i remember you to.

we havent had any tests, we thought about it before this one but thot we would give it a go incase it was just luck, and DH doctor isnt very helpful over all of this, as we have tried to get him refered to a urolgist but he dont think it is any need and it will just happen in time....hum...5 years and 6 tx later!!!!

can i ask who you saw in london? im sure we have had the chromosomes test as he had that after our last fail, dont know if that is the same as the karyotype tests?

yes have been with the same clinic for all txs, and wont be now. they say nothing should stop it happening and its just bad luck....nothing else they can offer.

the gave me gestrone because of the bleeding before test day, would there be another reason?


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## wanabmum

Hi ladies, just thought I'd say i no how you feel    Just finished our 5th go with yet another BFN! there IS NO JUSTICE in the world   feeling bitter towards everything at the moment, why aren't we good enough for a happy ever after, totally sucks!!!!!! We have A/B grade em brio's that do nothing apart from cost us money  £16,000 in a year, really haven't lived in all that time just existing seems to be work to save and nothing else matters and i can honestly say I've had enough know!!!!!!!!!  DH wants me to go to councilling as i cry and have real low's try to tell him this is normal human behavior i have to Grieve but he made a comment yesterday about wanting his sain wife back   which i do feel myself that i'm not the person i used to be ,anyway the thought that will keep me going is a girl i no has just done here 8th cycle and got a BFP!!!! so just hang on in there ladies IT COULD BE YOU NEXT!!!


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

kitten - yes it was the karyotype we did. His name is Mr Ramsey, if you google him he is there. Hes at Devonshire place. London. He likes a referral from a GP, you can have it under NHS but we went private, even private he needs a referral from GP. GP just needs to write a letter. If your GP isn't helpful then i;d see someone else. 

I don;t know much about the bleeding? What clinic are you at? Have you thought of moving?


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## HelenTCC

Gosh - was feeling quite alone with my 5 x fresh ICSI BFNs and 1 x FET BFN until I found this thread. Got my last BFN 10 days ago and am still feeling rubbish.

I was on IViG and clexanne for last 2 cycles but it made no difference to the result. My DH wants to give up but I keep on thinking it might work the next time. It is so difficult to know when to give up, isn't it?

Thinking that ARGC might be last option. But just find the clinic so cold...


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## Nordickat

So sad to see more names on here    It really isn´t fair.

Manabmum - for all its norm alto have lows and cry, your DH might be right about councelling. It might help you and it might make your DH feel better too if you went. Our DHs can feel very helpless when we are suffering and I know mine feels better when I am having counselling because it means there is somebody else looking after me too. I might help to get through this BFN and equip you better to make decisions on what is next.  I´m on #8 next so maybe it is my turn   

Helen - I was really frightened I wouldn´t know when to stop and would do one cycle too many and have it destroy me, but apparently we will know when enough is enough. I have stopped before after 3 failed cycles but I had so much regret that I hadn´t tried hard enough and the only option was to try again. We have to keep trying until we know in our hearts we have done all we can, we can´t live our lives with ´what ifs´ hanging over us.

Kitten - we are both completely ok with the donor thing. I don´t care what genes my child has, I just want to nurture it and love it. Hopefully a new clinic can shed some light for you and help you chose the best way forward for you both.

Each BFN takes a small piece of us I think and I don´t know if we ever get it back again, maybe when we finally get BFPs will can be ´us´again? If good things come to those who wait, after all this waiting, imagine how good its going to be for us when it finally comes round   

 and healing thoughts coming your way, 
Katxxx


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## kitten77

hey

wanabmum /helen - i think you do know when its time to stop, i know i havent got there yet and hopefully i will get there before giving up.  councialling is a good idea, time to go and look after yourself. 

mighty mini - thanks for the info, i contacted mr ramsey about a year ago but decided against the tests....maybe it time for these now.  i am changing clinics for the next go.

kat - i think your right on the each bfn takes a small piece of you, it really does, i keep saying my sparkle goes with it one, and hopefully that will come back when i get my bfp, but i know for one that this whole jounery has made me into the person i am now and that will never leave me ever, good or bad im not sure....

got another dilema now tho.  i tested yesterday with the bfn which was day 12 with a day 4 transfer as said by the clinic, i was on the gestrone injections which obviously i havent taken since weds, but my af hasnt arrived yet. i know in my heart of hearts that its a bfn, but dh still thinks it could have been wrong, we were planning on going out for a few drinks tomorrow but now dh wonders if we should......  can someone put my mind at rest?  its a bfn isnt it and its just been delayed by the injections?


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Kitten - i think having tests done will either pin point a problem or ease your mind that nothing is wrong. Mr Ramsey isn't just about getting tests done, he wil talk you through your history and is so nice with it. I enjoyed going to see him for him     

I used to get AF after 2 days of stopping the cyclogest. Maybe test again tomorrow. My test days were 16 days from EC. I tested 14 from EC and got a BFN then on 16 i got BFP.


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## kitten77

its 17 days after EC for me tomorrow, will this tell me the truth either way if i test again tomorrow?  ......my hope is up again now.....


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

I'd test to ease you mind hun. My embies were 2 day ones.    But, i know its no consulation, if its a BFN, its good that your AF didn't come until after test day.


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## kitten77

oh dont get me wrong, in my heart of hearts i know its a bfn, and 17 days after ec will tell the truth so will know for sure tomorrow. (if af hasnt arrived by then). 

and yes the good thing is that we did get to test date, the first time ever, so at least i know now that im getting progestrone enough.


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

I did 5 cylces before getting BFP, but i learnt that each cycle told a story and gave the docs something to work on for the next one. On my last one i did assisted hatching, donor sperm and carried on as normal (something i never did!    ) 

Let us know what your new clinic say.


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## Winegum

*Kitten 77:* I've read and been touched by many of your posts over the time that I have been on FF. Snap! I have just got a BFN from my 6th tx. I also took dhea and had better quality embryos than before. My dh is distraught. I am gutted but am a bit further on than him in facing up to it. The only conclusion I can come to at the moment is that everyone has some kind of s*** in their lives and this is ours.  I will read back over the thread properly, but just wanted to send you a message of solidarity for now. xxxWG


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## kitten77

winegum - thanks for your words, and im really sorry to hear of your failed cycle again, its such a bum isnt it.  have to admit the dhea i believe helped, maybe along with the mega dose of vits i was taking but pleased had the most eggs that i have ever had.  if they were better quality i dont know, we had none for freezing. do you know what your plan of action is now?

i tested again this morning, as i knew it was a bfn, no matter how many times i looked at it, how many times i sqinted and prayed for another line to be there...zero, ziltch, nada... oh well. onwards and upwards. 

well me and dh are going shopping, having lunch and having our first drink of the year, hoping to have a talk about what we are gonna do next, but not gonna push it if it comes up we will talk, it not we wont.


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## Nordickat

Winegum - I´m so sorry you are here too    You never know what other [email protected] people have to deal with in their lives. Having a baby isn´t instant happiness and plenty of mothers are suffering just as much pain as us over something else. I hope you and your DH are squeezing eachother tight to get through this.


MightyMini - did you carry on as normal for any of your BFN cycles too? I´m pretty sure being ´normal´is a good way to go but I´m frightened that if I get a BFN, then I´ll beat myself up badly about the things I should have done.


Kitten - I hope you have a really lovely lunch and enjoy your drink


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

No, on the first 2 i did hardly anything, did hotwater bottle, brazil nuts etc and got the same result (chem pg) then we got no fertiliization    then with number 4 i did the same, then m/c at 6 weeks, then with the last i was convinced it hadn't worked so went to work and nursed a bed bound lady in hospital, helped the nurses lift her    went into xray with her, drank a glass of wine, had hot baths    and then realised i was pg   

Nordick you are right about mothers having pain too, the pain of infertility never goes away, it eases of course but its still there.


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## Winegum

Hello ladies 

I must say it is very comforting to know that there are others out there doing exactly the same as me  In particular, the holding the pee stick up to the light to see if a faint line will materialise, oh hang on, the light in the bedroom is better....  I absolutely hate doing pg tests. Because I have never ever got a positive, it is the only time I really feel like I will never achieve a pregnancy. As soon as the test starts to develop, I just know....and I just know it is an experience I am destined never to have.

Last cycle, I took shed loads of vits, protein shake, wheatgrass, Zita West CD every day, imagined my twins, stroked my tummy, dh kissed my tummy etc etc and got crap embryos with multi-nucleation, only two out of ten were any good. This time I did absolutely nothing except take the DHEA and was in a state of denial about the whole thing until I was forced to do my test. DH and I didn't talk about it, no tummy kissing, no imagining. My 2ww even went quickly, can you believe that? I just switched off and refused to think about it. This time I got fewer eggs but much better embryos, no multi nucleation this time. So, *Nordikat,* what I'm saying is, don't beat yourself up about not doing this or not doing that - you could take it to the extreme and let every thing you eat, drink, cook with, wear effect your lifestyle or you could do nothing and still get a BFP. You would never know what was the thing that tipped the balance, you would only imagine it was one thing and not the other, you will never know. Personally I think the power resides with nature. Don't forget that the doctors only tell us no smoking, drinking and minimum caffeine. For me, it would cause me more stress to change my lifestyle dramatically and to continue getting BFNs.

*Mighty Mini* We are thinking of getting immunes done including Karyotype. I notice you have severe MF. Do you know if men with normal SA can still get a Karyotype result which can point to a problem?

So, where to go from here? I see from your signatures that we are all different. My situation is that I don't ovulate. That has been overcome with tx and I have responded well to drugs. Also, IVF has shown we have excellent fertilisation rates, so no problem there. We want some more answers so are going for more tests before we embark on tx #7. My hunch is that we just can't make decent embryos. Both my transfers have been day 2, but loads of other women I know get to blasts as a matter of course. I don't think ours even get to implantation stage. Anyway, enough of my rambling.

Love to you all
Winegum xxx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Winegum = yes of course (well pretty certain they can have the karyotype done) I had it done too. In fact his sperm count came back normal, the morphology and motility were grim tho


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## Nordickat

Hi Winegum

I know in my heart that all the things I do or don´t do, have little bearing on the outcome, but I can say that now as a relatively sane person who had a BFN weeks ago. I also know that if I get another BFN, then I don´t need much of an excuse to beat myself black and blue with my regrets. This time I might try and go with the flow a bit more - if mighty mini can do it, so can I   . I have given up caffiene pretty much but thats because its really bad for my depression and I only have the odd glass of vino anyway. My more pressing concern about my healthy living is that we are about to book a sunny holiday and it involves parading about in my bikini .... 4 weeks to lose the tummy flab! 

Is 2dt the norm at your clinic? As a general rule we get crappy embies. I got 2 blasts once and my BFP cycle was a 3dt of 2 fine looking embies, but all my other cycles have been 2 or 3dt with average to ropey embies. Maybe the donor sperm with solve that issue although I think it might be egg related. Did you give the DHEA long enough to have an effect? 3 months isn´t it? Have you got a followup appt soon? I hope your DH is coming to terms with it now   

Love Katxxx


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## Winegum

Hi *Nordikat, Kitten and Mighty Mini* 

Hope you've all had reasonable weekends.

Glad you have got a nice holiday to look forward to *Nordikat*, don't worry, I'm not going to suggest that you might get pg on holiday - I'm sure, like us, you have had about 16 holidays since you started TTC, plenty of relaxation!  Funny, but I don't actually _know_ anyone who has got pg on holiday, do you? Where are you off to? 

I like your honesty in your signature about your rubbish sperm and eggs  At our last FU, I referred to our embryos as "crap" - not a medical term I know but it was the only appropriate word that came to mind. The nurse thought that was a bit strong, but actually, I stand by it and think I was right. I started taking the DHEA soon after that apt on her reccommendation. Who knows if it was the DHEA that improved the embies. Could it have been the fact that I was on Menopur for the first time ever having been on Puregon for al my other cycles? That was the only other change in my protocol. I think I took the DHEA for almost exactly 3 months as it turns out. I really wish we would get more honesty from clinics. I reckon that they do a 2dt because they know if they carry on then there will be no embies to transfer - much better to pop them back in, yes, it might be the best place for them, but no one knows what is happening in there. I think 2dt probably is the norm at my clinic, but I think the norm on FF is 3dt or blasts. Glad that you have had blasts atleast once - it shows I suppose that all cycles are indeed different, but then again, it doesn't mean that every subsequent cycle is going to be better or worse than the last one, just different  It will be very interesting to see your results this cycle with the DS. I also wonder if our problems are egg related, but at the same time I wonder if there is a compatibility problem because once fertilised, our embies seem to run out of steam quite quickly. Only more tests and tx will tell 

DH is better thanks - we had a massive talk yesterday and agreed our plan of action. I'm upset of course, but feel like I am about two years ahead of him in coming to terms with the possibility of childlessness and I tell myself that we are quite happy as a family of two, so we _will_ be OK. I expect I'll have my FU in a month's time or so.

God, it's good to have wine again 

Bye for now
WG xxx


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## Nordickat

Our BFN consolation prize holidays end up costing us more than tx! This time its diving in Bonaire. We went to Curacao after BFN#3 and it was fab and apparently Bonaire is even better. My holidays generally involve camping in a tiny tent in soaring heat, climbing mountains in soaring heat or some other energy zapping activity so the chance of a BFP for a ´normal´ couple would be slim let alone with our infertility curse ....... maybe thats where we are going wrong   

We have had 2dt twice I think and both times it was because we only had 2 eggs fertilise, and then they might as well be inside rather than getting lonely in a petri dish. We only attempted to get to blast on the cycle where by we had 12 fertilised eggs. By day 5 though we were down to only 2, but thats quite normal I guess. Like you though, (if we get good fertilization) we tend to lose most of our embies by day 3. I´m struggling to find real scientific info on whether that is most likely the egg of sperm at fault. I did allow myself to have that glimmer of hope that DS might be the answer and now I´m worried I´m setting myself up for a big fall. Like you said, more tests or tx is the only way to tell. Our consultant said the only way to tell would be to fertilize half my eggs with donor and half with DHs sperm ...... obviously completely illegal but still the only way to know for sure  

And as for being a family to 2, I had serious doubts today about whether I really want to be a mum. What if I turn out to be as boring and dull as some of my friends!! Being childfree (a better word than childless I think   ) and interesting has got to be better than being a mummy and boring.  I did have a particularly bad day today and my mouth nearly said what my brain was thinking to one guy about how utterly boring his life sounded   I know, bitter and twisted maybe, but honestly some parents are soooooo dull! Rant over   

You and DH are a long way from a childless future though. I know IUI failure hurts just as much as IVF failure and you feel like you have been at it forever but IVF is different and you have to give it at least 3 shots to even be average. I have high hopes for you.

DH is back from his bee keeping course so time for me to have a glass of vino too, 
night night, Katxxx


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## Winegum

*Nordickat* - (Finally got your name right  )You seem to be a lady after my own heart.  I also wonder if I really want to be a mum. DH _really_ wants to be a Dad, he really feels it, whereas I don't and I never have. I often wonder why. Ever since I was a teenager, I have both felt that I couldn't have children and didn't want to. This was partly due to a kind of feminist awakening and I realise now that have always associated motherhood with weakness due to the role models I have had in my life. Did I not want to because I knew I couldn't or did I just prefer what a childfree life has to offer. Like you, I am surrounded by boring, bored, exhausted, lifeless parents who routinely say things like "my life is on hold" " do you want to have the kids for a few weeks" " you don't want to keep them do you?"- you know the story. I have never had a yearning to be a mum, I just don't know what that feels like. I mostly put that down to a gut feeling that I cannot conceive. The thing is now that I don't really know what I think or feel! I think that is a natural result of having your choices taken away from you isn't it? I know that I entered into fertility tx willingly, I know that I could handle being a Mum and having a family would be very nice at times, I know that I will always be thankful every day for my child and never forget the hell of IF, I know that I would still be the same person (sooo many people seem to forget who they were pre children) but I also know that I can have a happy fulfilling life without children. I know that if we had never started TTC, I would be happy. I also know that in my heart of hearts I cannot give up until it really is the end of the line. I owe it to myself to make these 5 years + count for something. It's all so difficult isn't it? I have jumped at the opportunity to write this down because I often ponder just what you said, and I often feel guilty about it when so many on this site are desperate to become parents - do I really want to be a Mum? Am I just doing it for DH? I'm desperate to succeed, but that is different from being desperate to be a Mum!  I guess the longer we aren't Mums, the more attached to the attractive parts of our lifestyle we become. I guess I'm also a realist whereas DH is an idealist.

Wouldn't it be great if there was always some DS on hand with every cycle just for experimentation  It would tell us so much more. In all seriousness though, I sincerely hope this is the one for you, the element that will effect the positive outcome. You will either get pg or get some more diagnostic info or hopefully both  Your holidays sound fab. We also like to travel and have blow out holidays - another plus about being childfree! Although if we go down the immune tx route, that will be our "holiday" for this year. Enjoy your wine  Thanks for reading my ramblings, and for your encouragement.
Love WG x


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## vw22

Hi there all, 


I have stumbled across you and your stories and feel like maybe I am not the only one with a string of marathon failures after all. Not that I was wishing to find anyone else going to hell and back like I have but it sure helps!


The last few posts have also connected with how I feel...  sarcasm (and honesty...or is it the same thing?) gets me through and I am still smiling despite the absurdity of the journey I am on!


Having now had a ridiculous amount of IUI, IVF, Donor egg tries and 'what the hell donor sperm too' tries, I have defied all logic and baffled every white coat that dares to have a go with me. I have had fabulous support from my ladies on the thread I usually follow but feel its time to stop being there as I am so different to them with this history, I feel like an alien.


Anyway I have no idea why I am here on this thread, but just identified with you all and somehow that felt good. We have some big decisons to make and have to find the balance between 'being strong and continuing on' or 'being plain stupid and moving on'...its going to be an interesting couple of months ahead. 


And yes, after my last bfn yesterday, cava has replaced the 2 litre of obligitory water quota and chips the brazil nuts.


vx


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## kitten77

hi vw22 - and welcome to our little world of multipule fails (and i do fully believe that only people who have gone through this many can understand how hard it is).  you did make me laugh tho, and like you the 2ltrs of water has been replaced by my diet coke habit (was on 5 a day before tx!) and eating all things healthy has been replaced by eating ANYTHING i want!!!!!  (piled on the pounds tho! oops!)

on the whole, 'wanting to be a mum' - i can relate to that, not in the way i wonder if i really want to be a mum cuz i do and i want it so much, but the fact that i have to self protect myself on the fact that maybe i wont, that the overwhelming feelings are not there anymore, as i cant do that anymore, i do not have the strength. i always wanted to be pregnant and have a baby, and i still want that, but im old enough and ugly enough to know that that maybe mite not happen.....

ooooooooo wish we could afford the holidays, as it is i have a £9.50 holiday from the newspaper next week with DHs family....nice i hear you say....not really i may add, this holiday will be with a SIL who i can tell you now is the most untactfull person you will ever meet, i say tactless but that is being nice, she does it on purpose to hurt/see reaction/annoy or all of the above.....and the weekend away falls on MOTHERS DAY!!!!  so i know in my heart of hearts that it will be awful, her going on how great it is, showing off all the presents etc etc.  im really dreading it and do not know how i am gonna cope......  

as for me, DH phoned at lunch to say that he has been looking up stuff at work about MF. he has booked an appointment with his doctor (off his own back!) to bully him in to sending him to a urologist - im sooo pleased, it means that even tho we havent had a 'talk' about what we are doing next that something is happening.  

i also phoned my clinic today to let them know it was a bfn again and to book a follow up appointment (19th May!!!! long time), DH wanted it sooner, which i hope means that he wants something to happen.  i can tell you now tho that i will defo be changing clinics this time, 6 chances are enough need to get soemthing 'new' in my head. 

im trying to think positive (very hard, and feels hard being back at work and nothing has changed), but dont want to be miserable.  so need to get head in right place and will start my 'diet' again, at the moment that will not happen. planning on save save save, but also spend time with DH doing things we want to do. 

anyone else got any plans?


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## Winegum

vw22:  Your signature is heartbreaking, and while I know it isn't helpful to have a hierarchy of tx/BFNs/pain, I feel very humbled by what you have been through and feel a bit unworthy of this thread now, like I should have waited until I had 6 IVF failures before I joined in, but as I said, ultimately we are all in the same boat and it's nice to meet you.  

I'm very sad for you that on your first tx you had a BFP, in the sense that it must have made you so happy and not given you a hint if what cruelties were to come.  

I haven't seen you on the boards before - well done for venturing put of your comfort zone!  I don't get out much either, partly because if i didn't reign myself in i would be on FF all the time.  I can relate to feeling like you need a second home.  When I finished my IUIs I missed my friends on the IUI TTC thread so much that I started a chat thread for us all which is still going strong.  It's known as a lucky thread - an amazing number of ladies have fallen pg and mostly have by now had their babies.  I love them all to bits and it is a hugely supportive and protective environment but it's inevitable that we will grow apart a little as our tx takes us on different paths.  That's why I came on this thread, it just struck a chord.

Come back and chat more.

Kitten: I hope you manage to get some enjoyment out of your hols.  It can be so exhausting to be around game-players and difficult to let it just wash over you.

You plan sounds good.  Even though when I announced my  BFN on my thread I said I'm glad I never voluntarily have to go through this again, if course I b***** will!  I will keep doing it until there is nothing left to try, but while there is....more of this.  It's less of a roller coaster now don't you think?  More of a bumpy tractor ride.

The self- protection instinct is very strong.  On my first IVF I was very focused on the end result that I wanted but actually I can't bear to talk about it or imagine it. There is just one thought I return to, and it is a powerful motivator for me.  I want to see my DHs face when the midwife hands him our baby. 

You asked about plans - well I have been busy organising my level 1 bloods prior to immune testing (vw22 whatever you can tell me about your experience with imbibes would be greatly appreciated).  I have already got my FU apt which is on Weds 6 April.  Do I stick or twist?  I'm tempted to change clinics as I feel my clinics a bit one size fits all and tx is not targeted enough.  It's such a difficult decision to make.  I'll leave that on the back burner because it will be a while before we are ready to start again.  While all this is going on, work is keeping me busy and providing a welcome distraction, and it's great to have S again after a long break, not BMS, just S - along with the wine it makes me feel alive.  Sorry if that is TMI.

Hello to anyone else reading - where are you Nordikcat?

Love from
Winegum xxx
Ps I've done this on my phone and icons are proving difficult so you'll just have to imagine them!


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## kitten77

oooooooo winegum!! not unworthy at all, a fail is a fail its still hard and i for one defo want you on here with us all!!!! i was just trying to get over the fact that each fail just sort of kills a little part of you (think you can understand that), but the fact they keep on coming is hard.

totally understand about the whole feeling bit left out/out of place on threads, seems to get relationships up and then drift apart and you feel like your the only one who is in your position

haha, your like me winegum, always think i wont put myself through this again, but i always do! 

your plan sounds good, i was thinking of getting immunes done, wanted to go to mr ramsey in london, but its all money money money isnt it, so gets hard. 

also knwo what you mean about just having S, sometimes its just you have to forget that its always been bms. 

off with work tomorrow in london, so will be nice to have 'free meal and wine' on the expenses!!!! and i will make the most of it!!!


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## Winegum

Ahhhhhh bless you kitten, I knew it would come across as if I really meant it but what I really meant was that I am in awe of people who have had multiple BFNs and MCs - yes, I have had alot of failure and yes I have been TTC (ha, I love that phrase!) longterm but that is nothing compared to what some have gone through, so, respect.  Coming to terms with how this chips away at your soul is very hard and that's where Ff comes in isn't it?

Enjoy your work jolly tomorrow!
XxxWG


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## vw22

Thank you kitten and winegum for your great welcome! 


Your unworthiness feelings are totally not accepted winegum, you have also been through an incrediably hard time... a negative is heartbreaking and just as devastating the first time as the 50th I am sure. There is no doubt though, somehow the time between a result and picking yourself up off the floor, does get shorted in a weird way. I think we are all getting stronger every time but its hard to see and appreciate it. 


The weirdest thing is for me after a year of solid treatments (9 transfers) that didn't work, not even a sniff of implantation, I got up the duff like an ordinary chick the month I took off to get married! The fact that I lost it was one thing but the fact that I even got pregnant just caused more confusion. Nature is so beyond these doctors it reminds me how much they know, but also how little.


My other thread is lovely too, truly great. But I find now as people move on I am answering the same questions as new people come on. And although I love to help, it makes me feel a bit stuck in the wheel and not getting off, so I thought a change of perspective might help.


You are right this stuff does chip away at your soul. But now, here, in a position I never thought I would have got to in my wildest dreams (nightmares?!) I am surprisingly calm. Maybe because I think we really have tried everything and so I am not aching after that 'one more thing' that might change it. We actually have one more frostie left tucked away with DH sperm (our last try was with donor sperm) and even though I don't think I have a hope in hell of success with it given my history, I will give it a go. But we are also looking at surrogacy as well.


Any immune questions just ask! When I got pregnant naturally I was weaning off the immune drugs and did have a pregnancy later with them too. Nothing since though. Only a beard!!!


vx


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## Nordickat

I'm drowning at work at the moment but I do still have time to think about you all, just not had time to read or catch up properly.
Have nice weekend all of you and I'll catch up with you all next week.
 Katxxx


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## Winegum

*vw22:* I am totally with you on the what they know and what they don't know thing. We forget how cutting edge reproductive medicine is. I find it amazing that they can inject an egg with a sperm and test an embryo for genetic disease, but they can't guarantee a pregnancy. You would think they could implant an embryo directly into your lining and make it grow wouldn't you? Maybe that's the next thing. I also think that nature is so powerful. I very much doubt that I will ever get a natutral BFP, but you honestly never know, as you have experienced. Maybe one cycle, my ovaries will work and the rest will follow. Until then, I guess all I have to look forward to is a beard  I'm also calm and still smiling. I think with each BFN, you have to make an adjustment don't you? In fact, this whole process has been one of adjustments and acceptance and it is very hard, but I have learnt to let it all wash over me.  
Hi *Kitten* and *Nordickat *

Hope you are all having a good weekend.
Bye for now
Love WG x


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## bettyboop5

Kitten sorry abt ur BNF.Just wondered if you've considered immune testing?


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## Nordickat

Hi VW - so sorry you need to join us here but isn´t it nice to suddenly discover you are not so alone?    A miscarriage is so devastating for anyone, but sometimes I think its worse for us just because once you have had a BFP I think its harder to give up on the dream. I´m so sorry for you loss. 

One thing I have discovered on this thread is that the number of failed attempts is proportional to the amount we all write in posts. Obviously as little bits are chipped away from our hearts with each BFN, we find more words to express ourselves. The results it that its taken me ages to read back through the posts   . I have also noticed that multiple failures results in a lovely sense on humour too    I am now mopping up the vino  I spat out at the thought of you all growing beards   

I don´t think I´m quite as pragmatic as some of you, especially you winegum. My heart still breaks into a million pieces at each BFN and I know I´m not ready to accept a childfree life just yet. I pretend I am, I kid myself that I would hate to be as boring as all my family orientated friends, but its all to protect myself and its heart breaking. Sometimes I even believe myself lol. I can happily plod along for a while thinking how its all going to be OK, and then something completely unrelated happens and I fall apart. I just had had an awful week at work (personal attacks by somebody) and its set me back a long way on the IF front too. Confidence knocks take me a long time to recover from and I think its IF related. On the flip side, we booked our holiday this weekend and if we´d had a BFP in Feb then I wouldn´t be going diving in less than 3 weeks so its not all bad   

A couple of you mentioned support on other threads and I´m the same. I love offering support and feeling there is some point to my semi professional status, but sometimes it just makes me feel like such an old lady and just for once I´d like to be rewarded for all my good deeds. Surely there should be more point to all this tx than just being able to answer every question that is asked.

Anyway, I hope you all had lovely weekends? Mine as very relaxing. We had grand plans to ski across mountains but when we arrived there wasn´t enough snow so we just sat in the cafe and ate the waffles and drank the hot chocolate whilst talking about skiing. I´ll now be eating lettuce all week in an attempt to make sure I look gorgeous in my bikini in a few weeks time.

 all round


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## kitten77

hello everyone. how has all your weekends been. nordickat - skiing  where you be my weekend is....hum...ok. not great, few breakdowns but to be expected. 

nordickat - totally agree with your posts, i try to pretned its all ok being childless but its all a front, im the funky auntie, but cry when i leave as i want to be a mummy.  im not liking the personal attacks at you hun, here if you want to talk about it?  but like you, my confidence goes and i think it is alot to do with IF.  i have body confidence issues at the moment, but cant seem to do anything about it. i still feel tired and worn out by all the bfn's which dont help. 

bettyboop - yep i think we will look into this a bit now.  we were gonna do that last time but thot spending the money on this go would be better seeing all the docs said there is no reason why it wouldnt work and its just bad luck....hum....yer right! argh

winegum - hey! you ok?    like you i still cant understand why they cant implant the embroys for us seeing they can do evyerhting else.  me and DH wonder why they dont know much about male infertility either, they just dont seem to much at all about it. 

im hoping i am able to say this here and i hope you will understand as i have never ever ever said this at all out loud....but sometimes im jealous of people who have had a mc - please dont shoot me down for that, as i wouldnt wish it on anyone ever and its terrible and wish i didnt feel like this but IF does terrible things....the reason being at least then i would have been pregnant....does that make sense? i would never wish it on me or anyone....but then to have that little bit of hope that could give me hope that i was pregnant.  sorry if that has upset anyone and let me know if its too much and i will delete.  im in two minds to even post this but i just need to get it off my chest and see if i am the evil women i think i am. im so desperate to be a mummy sometimes my horrible and bitter thoughts make me wonder if i deserve it.


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## Winegum

Ahhhhh don't be fooled by me *Nordickat. *My self protection mechanism is highly efficient. It takes a lot to break though the wall I have built around myself but as with my soul, there are chips in it and I can be easily weakened if I allow myself. I have really desensitised myself and that is why I was going on about not really knowing how I feel  The truth is, I'm fed up of feeling like S*** about myself - as you have demonstrated, others can do that quite easily enough  and you are right, we are fragile and unrelated knocks can set us back. Thank god for FF, and hot chocolate, and holidays...

  to your comment about writing lots. It is impossible for me to write short posts - you should see my texts 

So are you British living in Norway or a Norwegian with amazing English?

*Kitten:* Hey! Just seen your post when I was reviewing mine. I'm a funky auntie too, and the glamorous one with the exciting life (well that's what i think of myself anyway  - not!)

Me and dh have been discussing the woefully inadequate response to negative tx that clinics have. When I am feeling really militant it almost seems like a conspiracy against women. When you get cancer, you don't have to get it three times before they give you tx. When you get Pneumonia, they don't just say "bad luck", they treat you. How can they get away with a dx of "unexplained" with IF? It's laziness!

Re your mc comment - I can totally sympathise and put my hands up and say I feel the same. I just want a BFP. I just want that knowledge that I can achieve a pregnancy. It has to be seen in a personal context though, and you are not evil, you are just looking at your situation and being honest about how you feel. Like you Kitten, I have never seen a positive pg test. I don't know what it feels like to see one, it would be a major major milestone. If I ever experience that I will have that knowledge that I can achieve a pregnancy and I will be ecstatic for a short while, until the worry about reaching the next milestone kicks in. I imagine for women who have experienced mc, it is not necessarily getting the BFP, but getting past the 6, 9, 12, sometimes 20 week stage that is the milestone they need to reach. But of course I don't know, and it would be interesting to know how people really feel. We are all dealing with unknowns all the time  
Sorry about the funny formatting - I saved this in word while I was having tea and I'm glad I did because when I came back I promptly deleted it 

Have good weeks everyone

WG x
Ps Does anyone know what happened to the "Stupid things people say" thread? it used to be a good read occasionally.


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## Nordickat

Winegum  - I'm a Brit with not bad English living in Norway   . My texts are the same .... I don't do text speak!

Kitten - I understand the mc thing completely  . I often wish I had never had one, and for sure, a BFN is easier to deal with than a short lived pregnancy. But, I don't regret experiencing the instant and completely overwhelming love I felt for my baby. It hurts like crazy to have lost, but somewhere deep down I'm grateful for having the opportunity to feel that powerful bond.

Right, I'm off to sharpen my tongue before I go into battle with the old trout upstairs who thinks its acceptable to treat me as she did last week ....... nothing like a good fight to start the week off   

 Katxxx


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## kitten77

thanks everyone for being understanding, i was scared i would be hated!  and yes winegum - i think it is everyones personal circumstances, i have never had a BFP, i dream of that and jealous of the people who have had it even for short lived..... but i really feel for the people who have lost (nordickat  ).  

anyway....

nordickat - go kick butt!!!!!!! 

im off to get my toast and marmite and think abotu starting the days work....been here for over half hour and havent started any work....oops!!!


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## JBox

can i join your thread? i hope you dont mind - i also have had countless treatments*13 * to be exact , 6 IUIs, 6 IVFS ( OE) and 1 DE IVF, two miscarriages, one chem pregnancy and lots and lots and lots of tears....
i am different from you girls, coz i find every single bfn as bad, if not worse than the previous one. 
I am having immune testing this month and going for my second DE cycle in may....
I have the upmost respect for all us women going thro this treatment nightmare but more so for all of us who have had numerous treatments, still are at square one...


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## Nordickat

JBox   and a very sad welcome to the fold. I hurt more each time too and I think some of the others do too, its just sometimes we are too well practiced at the brave face and pretend its no big deal so we can continue to get through each day. I'm cycling agian in May too   .

Kitten - no need for me to kick butt afterall which is somewhat disappointing since i was all set for a row   .


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## kitten77

Jbox - sad welcome from me to   - really sorry to hear of your numberous treatments and a agggggh from me for your fails.  as nordickat said, we all hurt after our treatments have failed but we are so old hand at it now that we pretend it dont just so we can get on with life.  the way i think of it is, yes i can be upset and wallow in pity but its not gonna do me any good.....yes indeed i cry, i cried yesterday again over it, over the unfairness of it all, it hurts, it kills, it takes away my soul and spirt everytime....but i try not to show it. (which in turn kills me a bit more....)

anyway, where you getting your immunes done?  im thinking of having them...?

oh Nordickat - wanted so kick ass action coming from you!!!!  disapointed!


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## Nordickat

Kitten - apparently the old trout made herself look very silly by her kindergarden type emails last week and since she now looks a complete fool to everybody, I can walk around head held high practicing my smug look for when I bump into her   . There is one thing better than a good row, and thats being obviously in the right without actually having to do or say anything   . I can now pretend I rose above it rather than was just too upset to respond.

I hope the sun shines on you all today,
 Kaxxx


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## JBox

Hi Kitten and thank you for the welcome...
i dont live in uk (am english tho) and am doing my immunes here, thank goodness they are a third of the pirce they are in uk but still expensive. i have an appt scheduled with DR GORGY next week - i am visiting london for a family party - and i will go to him wtih my results for a second opinon. I only hope that any tx he might suggest ( altho i have a feeling he wont suggest anything until i have done numerous more tests wtih him at great expense) will be able to do in the short time i have between my next treatment ( may 15th) , and I also hope that my dr here will support it... To be honest, i feel a bit lost with all the immune stuff, had read the threads here, there is a wonderful girl who is totally knowledgable about it and also responds immediately with answers to any questions, i have read Alan Beers book and have done loads of research but still i dont get it (thick? yup!). i am convinced i have implantation issues, and that my body is rejecting any embryos. On every ivf i had fertilization, (except one) and i even feel pregnant - really sore boobs, exhausted, sicky - for about 4 days, and then it just stops.... 
i just had a break from tx and my hub and i decided to go down the natural route. Even this month i felt preggers - in fact i could have sworn i was, and my mind was racing to how i was going to decorate the nursery, but all the feelings just stopped and then AF came with a vengence... the heaviest I have had in ages. 
I dont know what i think about immune and my dr here isnt really in favour of it, saying that he thinks its a lot of drs preying on vulnerable women  Aand taking their money and my dh who trusts our dr ( despite 13  failed cycles - 3 with him) beleives him.... soi am a bit alone in pushing forward with this and even starting to doubt myself, but i am going for it....
oh its such a mine field isnt it??


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## vw22

Hi everyone...yes it does feel good to find a space of girls like me, even though everyone has such different experiences getting this point.


Winegum - my mum even asked why they can't grow the baby longer than 5 days and then put it in...I suggested 8 months would be good but thats a fairly big petri dish and its probably called surrogacy by that point!!!


Nordickat – I completely relate to the confidence thing. I am a fairly confident person but my self esteem went through the floor with every negative. I had a bullying business partner for years and then all these 'failiures' and everything just compounded until I felt totally worthless as a woman and person. At the end of last year I had to really force myself to stop the victim mentality. It was all in my head but I was letting it define who I was. With all the appointments and drugs, even normal life gets affected and you can't say yes to a dinner invite without a major counting of days to work out where you 'could' be in the cycle... Normal things get so complicated and you feel so alienated!


And yes, there must be more to this than being an expert in fertility, I can certainly do without that skill!!! Roll on your holidays by the way!!!


Kitten77 - I doubt there is much you are feeling that everyone here hasn't experienced. I had a big chat with DH (its been a week of those type of exhausting chats) about the day I finally got pregnant and I felt normal, even though I was pretty sure i was going to lose it. Of course I cared but I just wanted to have the moment where I could say I had got pregnant. I just wanted to feel like a 'normal' woman. So I totally feel the pain from what you are saying. I hope I havn't made you feel 'not normal' by that comment because I don't mean to!!! That again was all in my head and nobody made me feel like that...it was just a normal-meter I was judging myself on. I have had to change my way of thinking. Knowing what I know now, I am trying to see things differently. Then it was all about being pregnant, now its all about having a baby. Well thats not totally true, I still want so much to be pregnant, but am trying to be grown up and realise that I want a baby in our lives, not just the being pregnant bit...is anyone following me? Somehow I think it helps to see it like that, and opens up other possibilities...donor eggs, adoption, surrogacy, nicking a kid from the local supermarket!!!


JBox - never be fooled by my sarcasm that gets me through some dark days after a bfn.


I did immunes with Dr G in London if anyone is interested. But I am still not sure how I feel about it. I did the ivig and all the other meds. Jbox I even did a full round of meds before my results came back, we just presumed they would be bad (they weren't). It is a minefield and it really stressed me out, but in the end I worked out what I was prepared to go with and did that. 

And the natural pregnancy I had was a strange one cos I self medicated... I actually went through all my notes on when I had had a trigger injection for treatments, worked out the average day of the month of it, and used a trigger I had left over at home!!! So basically became my own doctor at home. It worked but I lost it. 


So we have been on struggle street this week trying to plan life ahead. The venus and mars thing has kicked in big time. And the hangovers horrendous. Time to detox.... vx


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## waikiki

Hello ladies,

Can I join you too?  After a truly dreadful week it's been such a relief to find some others in a similar situation to me (not that I would wish it on any of you ).  

Kitten - I almost cried when I saw your comment about envying ladies who have sadly m/ced as I have also felt that.  After 7 IVFs without even so much as a sniff of a pregnancy, I often think how wonderful it would be to be pregnant, if only for a few days or weeks - I know it's stupid as I'm sure that the reality of losing a baby must be unbearable.  But if I could just get pregnant at this stage, it might give me a little hope.  

As it is at the moment I have no hope, it has slowly ebbed out of me with each failure and now I honestly can't believe that I will ever be a mother.  But even as hopeless as I feel, I can't give up yet either, so I will just keep plodding on for a little longer.

I have high FSH, immune and blood clotting issues so have tried just about everything, including most recently DE but nothing has worked.  Each time I feel pregnant until around day 10 after EC and then I feel them slip away.  I know other people say that you can't know for sure either way as everyone has different symptoms, but I know in my heart that that is when I lose them.

A few of you had mentioned counselling - can I ask how you found your counsellor?  I really feel that I need help but last time I asked my GP for help a few years ago she just wanted to put me on antidepressants.  I know that's not what I need, I need someone to talk to.  If I go private it will be costly (on top of our tx fees) but I'm worried that the GP won't be able to refer me to anyone and I also don't want it on my medical notes in case we decide to pursue adoption in the future (even though DH is dead set against adoption at the moment)....does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

waikiki


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## vw22

Hi Waikiki, I am so sorry you have ended up here too. Your journey has been way too long too. I really hope that you were just unlucky on your first DE round. Do have frosties to try again with? I am sorry I can't help with the counceller suggestions as I am not based in the UK but hopefully someone will come up with some info for you. But in the meantime I just wanted to send you a big hug and let you know you are not alone if you want to chat. vx


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## Winegum

*Waikiki & JBox *  and  Welcome to the thread

I want to say it's great that this thread is so busy 

But will everyone slooooow down  I can't keep up with you all and you know how I love my long posts  I will be back with more later in the week and a proper welcome to the newbies but until then, you are always in my thoughts.
WGxxx
ps Where are you located vw?


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## vw22

I am near valencia! vx


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## wobs

Hi ladies
Please can I join you...I'm losing count of the number of cycles and years...its too many.  So sad to see so many FF'ers on here, but as you all say its nice to know we're not alone.  
We had a last ditch attempt in the autumn so that we knew we had tried everything, to our disbelief and amazement got pregnant, but then found at 7 week scan it wasn't viable and miscarried 2 weeks later.  TBH it all felt a bit surreal at the time and still does.   
And so we try again but...not sure where we'll go after that.
Will read back properly & post when I have a mo.  For now I'd better get to work!!   
bye for now
Wobs


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## Nordickat

As I sat on the bus this morning looking at the fresh snow on the ground I realised what we all need   A lovely sunnny weekend in Valencia   , sitting out in the evening sun with a lovely glass of tempranillo, setting the world to rites. I asume you are all free this weekend, so see you at the VWs house on Friday?!

Wobs and waikiki   and I'm glad you found us. Its nice to disocver you are 'normal' afterall isn't it? And you have joined us just in time for a weekend in Valencia   

Waikiki - I am also not in the UK but I do know lots about depression, councelling and adoption. Your Dr can refer you to councelling, or your IVF clinic can although I suppose you might have to pay if you go through your IVF clinic. Go back to the Dr and be forceful about what you want. Councelling should come before antiDs. And as for adoption it should have no bearing on your adoption application. You could always post in the adoption forum to check if it would put your mind at rest. You are not necessarily suffering from depression, you just need some help to process your grief, and seeking that help won't look bad for you adoption. It shows you can identify when there is an issue and you are brave enough to seek help when you realsie you need it. It might even turn out to be of a bonus for an adoption application as its another reference - somebody who will really understand what is in your head will be fighting your corner for you. Good luck.

wobs -   I'm so sorry you lost your little one  

I too find it amazing that they can do amazing thing with cells but yet can't guarantee an embie sticking.

VW - I always find its only the screaming horrible kids in the supermarket that are left unsupervised and if I'm going to nick one I'm certainly not having one of them!

JBox - I hope you get some immunes answers. My clinic are also not really into immunes tx but they have compromised for me. I told them I wanted prednisolone and heparin and they have given me it in a low generic dosage, but somehting is better than nothing right? Where are you living by the way? Be warned though, if its somewhere more exotic than Valencia we might all decend on you instead so you might want to lie if its somewhere really really lovely   .

 kitten and Winegum

 Katxxx


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## JBox

Wow this thread is so sad, but so inspiring too:  sad coz we have all gone through so many failed cycles, and yet inspiring to see how determined everyone is to continue despite the knockbacks and the disappointments...

Waikiki, what you describe about feeling pregnant up to about day 10, is exactly how i feel. E X A CT L Y ! i know that all the meds, particularly the progesterone can give symptoms of pregnancy (sore boobs, tiredness etc) but even when I have tried a natural cycle with not a sniff of a progesterone stick, i have felt that. And then suddenly it just stops! I really don't think its our imagination, and yes, I have been fortunate to have been pregnant  (one successfully and 3 not) so I do know that these feelings are pregnancy symptoms: and this is the reason I  am going for immune investigations at great cost and effort. I believe I have implantation issues. What did they find with you? 

Kitten darling, my heart wept when I read your post. Oh sweetheart, I do get you, I really do. But having been through both scenarios  (not a hint of pregnancy  after so many cycles, but 2 mcs previous to that) I can honestly say that the immense excitement I had when I finally got a positive line on the hpt to the indescribable pain, torment and sadness I felt when the dr told me there was no heartbeat, was 100 times worse than any of the bfns I have encountered since ( and trust me they have been bad!!!). I truly hope more than anything that you will get pregnant but  I hope that you will experience it to the full. I do not wish upon anyone the upset and sadness that a miscarriage brings, especially when it comes after so many months or years of trying to conceive. I get that you just want to be pregnant even if its short lived to know that you can get pregnant but please please please don’t envy anyone who has had a m/c. Sweetie, envy those women who get pg just by looking at their partners, or those women who plan successfully the exact date of their pregnancy. 

"Meeting" all you women here and seeing the determination to continue onwards is beyond me. People say to me that i am strong, I don't feel strong. I shatter into pieces every month I get my AF and it doesn't get easier with each cycle, if anything, it gets harder. And yet  every month we pick ourselves up from the gutter, dust ourselves down, put on a brave face to the outside world and carry on as if everything is ok. And we go through it time and time again with the hope that 'this time it will be different'. 

Last week, I was talking to a friend of mine who is friends with a mother of twins. Turns out she went through 18 ( YES 18!!) cycles of IVF to achieve her dream… What courage, what determination, what inner strength. I keep thinking I would never have the ability for 18 cycles, and yet here I am 13 cycles later – so who knows! 

I think this thread is wonderful and I am looking forward to receiving and giving support to you all and I hope that VERY VERY VERY soon we will be able to celebrate a BFP here. 

XXXXX

(Kitten - I really hope that what I have said here doesn't sound harsh or judgmental - I really don’t mean it to))


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## vw22

I am loving the vibe on this thread. Its incrediably up-beat for so many who could be regarded as 'down and outers'... what a great lot you all are. Will be back later. And yes, would love you all for a weekend of sun at mine anytime!!! vx


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## waikiki

Thank you for making me so welcome lovely ladies.  

Today everything seems a little easier - I have had another night to sleep on the news that my best friend is pg after her 1st IVF (forgot to mention that during yesterday's rambling introduction!)  

Kat - thanks for your advice re. the depression.  You're right, I don't really feel depressed, just weighed down by grief and I will go and see my GP again to see if they can refer me.

JBox - I had the full immune testing with Dr Gorgy a couple of years ago and he found that I have a blood clotting issue (homozygous MTHFR) so now I am on low dose aspirin and high dose folic acid permanently.  I also take clexane with each tx now.  I also had sky high TNF-A so took humira, also had LIT for low LAD (controversial I know, but I'm desperate!) and have also had intralipids/IVIG and prednisolone.  After 2 cycles with full immune tx and no pg, my doctors at the Lister told me it was all down to my eggs after all, so I switched to DE.  

So with my first DE cycle I just did clexane, gestone and prednisolone (no IVIG etc) and nothing again.  I know that when I go for my follow up the doctors will tell me it was "just bad luck" but my donor got pg, despite the fact that her DH has sperm problems and my DH has super sperm - so it has confirmed my belief that it is implantation related after all (I have always believed this, as I too sometimes feel the pg symptoms on a natural cycle, but they always go away around day 10/11).  So I'm going back to Dr G in a few weeks time to see what else he can suggest - to be honest I'm just exhausted by it all.

Anyway, none of that matters now, because I have a lovely weekend in Valencia to look forward to!


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## kitten77

good morning all!

*waikiki *- i know how you feel about friends getting pg, even after first ivf, i have one of those, she has had ivf twice now has 3 kids! 
thank you for understanding my feelings concerning mc....thot i was a horrible freak.

also, i was worried that if anything like depression went on my gps notes concerning adoption (as im sure someone on here was turned down because of it!?) - but your not depressed just in grief, which is two different things. does your clinic not offer counciling? free of charge? im sure they have to.

how much does all this immune testing cost!?!?!?!? bit scared now!

*Jbox *- thank you for your kind words. i wouldnt wish a mc on anyone or even myself it must be the hardest thing, having that one thing you always wanted but it fails to stay. i am not belittleing your feelings not one bit, but from my own personal view because of no sniffs of pregnancy the urge to have a positive, to feel that hope, to have a feeling of being pregnant is one thing i crave...without it my hope dies, my sparkle goes and part of me dies with no way of getting it back. i wouldnt want a mc....i want the hope being pregnant would give me....does that make sense and no not AT ALL have i taken offence, i was worried abotu posting that comment incase it upset people, im really pleased that you have taken the time to respond to me - we are all on the same journey, unfortunatly we are all taking differnt paths with different feelings which are personal to ourselves.  - oh and trust me i am jealous of those 'he just had to look at me' ladies! grrr!

wow - 18 goes!!!! dotn think i could actually afford that! but hats off to her, and i would give it that many if i knew it would work!

*winefum, nordickat, vw22  *

*wobs - *welcome hunny, and nice of you to find us, lovely bunch on here. sorry for your loss tho. spk soon i hope.

as for me, well still dreading the weekend away this weekend, evil SIL over mothers day, i think if i fear the worst then it wont be a surprise but i know there will be tears from me in the comfort of DH, will never show her that she has upset me.

planning on getting hair cut before i go away...which reminds me....better phone for appointment and then get on with some actual work!

spk later


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## Nordickat

Kitten - you are probably thinking about me on depression/adoption thing. We were approved for adoption and then my depression got the better of me and I had a bit of a breakdown which did have to go on my records. It didn't mean I couldn't adopt, it just meant we had to be reassessed and I wasn't strong enough to go through it all again. If however, I had been honest about my depression and had help in the first place then I probably would still have been approved and would currently in the adoption queue   .  And as for you evil SiL, well she will look haggered and exhausted on mothers day and you will look fab with your new hairdo   . And often the anticipation is worse than the event so I'm hoping it turns out you have a great weekend away.

waikiki - maybe kitten is right ad your clinic might have to offer councelling - that might be a better choice just because they will be IF councellors. Maybe call your clinic and ask since it might be quicker than a Dr referal.


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## JBox

Waikiki
Oh how similar we are… I was told early last year that there is very little chance of conceiving from my own eggs, coz basically they are rubbish. But I continued with OEIVF for a few more cycles before I was willing to put that to bed and move on. And then, after months of soul searching, tears, anger, frustration, and yes, I would even say depression, we turned to DE and did our first cycle in February. And that too turned out to be a BFN. That for me, was the most devastating cycle of all.  From the way the doctors spoke, a younger woman's eggs will ensure me the pregnancy I so craved. But it turned out not to be and just reinforced my feelings that I have implantation problems. In May I am going for another DE cycle which I just know in my heart of hearts is going to turn into another BFN. I am trying to run around doing immune testing before this cycle with the hope that maybe just maybe, someone can shed light on why this keeps happening, but I am doubtful! My DH is under the impression that it was bad luck, as that is was my consultant said and bless him, he trusts him and hangs on his every word. But I just know– call it women's intuition – that there is something more going on. Its just such an awful place to be  in and I am sure you get it, its like I know there is something more going on than just bad luck and statistics but I don’t have the medical experience and know-how to demand treatment for it. And I am sure there is a very simple treatment that could help this  - something that in 5 years time will be the norm like asprin today is to women with blood clotting issues and wasn’t 5 years ago. Your grief, depression, sadness, whatever it is, I totally relate to. I do not like the person I have become over the past few years. I feel totally changed by my infertility, and not in a good way. I have drifted from friends as I feel they don’t get it and like someone mentioned here, I hate not being able to plan anything because I might just be in the middle of a treatment and need to be near the clinic for scans etc. Its awful. Its lonely, its all-consuming and its just plain depressing!

Kitten
Sweetheart, I hear you. loud and clear. I so hope you get that positive pregnancy test soon I really do ( I hope we all do!)  Not to have even a sniff of it after so many cycles is just so damn demoralizing. The 18cycler I told you about – she didn’t have one sniff of it either until she got to no 18, but I don’t know if that helps to hear…? ( and just so you know, I don’t pay for IVF treatments here, I just pay for the meds which are heavily subsidized, and consultant fees, so 13 cycles here is like the equivalent of maybe one or two there!). 

Hi Wobs – so sorry to hear about your m/c but glad that you have found the inner strength to try again. Not easy…. 

Hi Nordicak, winegum, VW2, and anyone else I may have missed off. I am so rubbish at personals. 

And a weekend in Valencia sounds great to me although I have never visited Norway….


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## Nordickat

JBox- if you saw the amount of snow in my garden still, Valencia would be your top chioce I promise. Come on though, confess to where you are so we can plan a whole years of trips


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## JBox

Oh sorry, im in the cool hip and trendy city of tel aviv - voted in 2010 as one of the best cities to visit  - so when you coming?


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## Nordickat

I'm free tomorrow if that suits you?


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## JBox

just tell me when to pick you up from the airport luv...
a good night out is just what the dr ordered!


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## vw22

Its great how you lot are finally saying the things I think, but find hard to say. 


That whole 'bad luck' thing really confuses me. There has to be a reason for everything, whether we are ever going to know it, or not. 


I actually moved up the treatment ladder - IUI to IVF then to DE bla bla - for the only reason that I felt I had given each new treatment a good go statistically and wanted to go for a top-totty chance on the next thing. I could have hung out trying this and that, tweaking this and that for ages longer and all the white coats wanted to keep me going but as time was ticking on, I just wanted to start my family. I so wasn't interested in 'what was actually wrong', I just wanted to get pregnant! So to be here now after this many tries is defying logic and still no success!!!


My DH says we just don't know how close we are. And he is so right. But I hate being in this limbo world.


And does anyone do this thing where you are in the middle of a treatment and you become ridiculously superstitious...lucky this and lucky that, lucky knickers whatever... then half way through I always think, when this is over, I am going to be really carefree and just throw caution to wind and get on with my life. And I think, so why don't I just be like that anyway??! Much less fuss, even when doing treatments... Maybe by stop trying so hard things might just happen... But its so hard to be like that!


So a nice thing to put an end to my ramblings... My clinic in valencia who have been brilliant all the way (as expected though! I have probably paid for a new mercedes or something by now) have just said they will make some new embryos to have as back up in case the last lonely blast doesn't make the defrost... for no charge!!! How incrediable. Even though we don't think we have a hope in hell of this working anyway, it feels so good to know they are doing that for me. A chance is a chance. Meanwhile surrogacy talks are in full swing. Thats a whole new ball game.


Love the idea of a global fertility fiesta in all these countries too!!! vx


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## kitten77

gotta come on here quick to say OMG *VW22* you have just made me laugh, cuz YES YES YES i become very superstious in treatment, the list of things i did this time round is stupid, lucky pants, not stepping on drains, kissing my cats before i go out, touching certian things, wearing certian things! the list goes on and on, at the time i thot it was worth it, and i am sane and know that this has NO outcome whatsoever on the outcome but cant seem not to do it, and then think i need to chill out next time.....but never do!!!!

you made me laugh so much - IM NOT A FREAK!!! ive never told anyone my little things i did!!!


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## JBox

Yes yes yes...lucky knickers lucky tops lucky actions and also... signs!!!! Does anyone see signs? This last month every time I looked at the time it was 19:19 or 14:14 or 21:21 you get my drift. Was convinced it was a good omen!(Wasn't tho!!!!!)

On a different note can I ask you gils here something... This has never happened before. I got my period on sunday so heavy so much so that I was having to change my super plus tampax every couple of hours (sorry if tmi) and today (day 2) its just stopped. What does that mean? Am I going into early menapause? Freaking out...


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## Winegum

I said slow down, not write lots of massive posts  this thread is becoming a page a day thread and I can't keep up.
Oh well, at least we'll have plenty of time to chat in Valencia 
Welcome to wobs - love the name!
Back with more when I can
Wg xxx


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## waikiki

Errrmmmmm.....my name's Waikiki and I'm a magpie saluting addict.  There, I've said it!  I have always thought it bad luck to see a single magpie and have to salute them each time I see one on its own, especially during tx.  DH and I drive to work together and some mornings I see so many that he must wonder what on earth I'm doing (too embarrassed to tell him!) so I have to combine my salute with a hair smoothing move.  

I also had lucky knickers which I always used to wear for ET - but they clearly weren't working, so they have now been exiled to the back of my underwear drawer in shame.


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## vw22

Mad saluting, that is so funny!!! 


You are all hillarious and these are the things we are mentioning, can you imagine the things we aren't!!!


JBox. Have you just come off meds (sorry I can't remember where you are at)...if yes then bleeding and af can go a bit wonky and its hard to treat it as a normal period... even though it is. If no, I would still think your body is just adjusting. I used to freak out with the same thoughts and the doc always said if you are still getting af at normal times (day 28 or whatever) then you are ok... he said something about the menopause having longer and longer breaks between each af. Hope that helps?


vx


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## JBox

Hahahahaha to the magpies! When I lived in UK I was a class teacher to 32 5 year olds and they all learnt to salute a solitary magpie. Had many a parent come in and ask me about it!!!


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## JBox

And VW thanks for getting back to me. No was a natural cycle no meds nothing. Period came on day 23


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## Winegum

Hi ladies 

Can I just reiterate what others have said about this thread being fab?  It's a bit like my favourite meals, meze or tapas style, with a bit of everything, and nothing I don't like.  
I think it is great that we can really talk and express our innermost thoughts - quite often on a more mixed thread there are things one doesn't say. It's great that in true FF spirit we can say what we want to say without fear of being judged and in the knowledge that we will be supported and understood. I also love the fact that we can laugh through our tears   and just chatter on as well. 

*Nordickat: *So, excuse my nosiness, British or Norwegian dh? Long or short term in Norway? Did your job take you there? Sorry, but I'm fascinated by how people end up where they end up! As for text speak, I can't read it let alone write it  I was moved by what you said about the powerful bond of love you felt for your unborn child. I guess that is a powerful motivation to continue. A friend miscarried her second child at 20 weeks due to a heart defect - she hadn't had any other IF issues, but she felt very strongly that she was meant to have two children and that her family wouldn't be complete until she had achieved that. Happily she fell pg again by her due date for the child she lost. I imagine many women who lose babies feel that.

*JBox: * You articulate your feelings very well and I hear what you say and like what you say  What you said about being at square 1 really struck a chord with me. I feel exactly the same - however you move through the tx heirarchy, you never seem to get closer, and original diagnoses are no longer relevant. With me for example, I don't ovulate, but that has been overcome, so what is my problem now? Back to square one, and while we are in square one, lets go round and round in circles. I see immunes as "the other side" and I can't quite believe I am actually going down that road. It honestly seems like a different language - thank god for fellow ffs who have made it their mission to learn it. I'm reading Dr Beers book but I'm still at the beginning where he is easing us in.  Strength is something that is talked about a lot on FF and I have come to the conclusion that although we might not feel strong, we are rocks, each and every one of us.

*vw22: *Have you filled up your fridge then? Lit the barbie? Don't shatter our illusions and tell us it's not very nice out there  I would describe myself as anti-superstitious - yet when I am undergoing tx, I am a big looker for signs and good omens. On my last tx, this is what I came up with and posted on my other thread - now if this doesn't work, I don't know what the hell will!
Here is my ICSI #2 Lucky 7
7: Number of eggs collected
6: Number of mature eggs
5: Number of eggs injected
4: Number of eggs fertilised & Number of cells in our embryos
3: The date of our ET
2: The number of embryos transfered & the grade of one of our embryos & the day of our transfer
1: The date of our EC & the grade of one of our embryos

Bring on the stories, but I defy anyone to trump the crazy secret magpie saluter 

*Waikiki:* I'm with you on the no hope - I'm sorry to say it but I just know I'm not going to get pg, however hard I try. I have actually felt infertile since I was a teenager, and it's very hard to shake. I read The Secret and tried to imagine myself with babies and tried to be very positive in my thoughts but in the end it just upset me!  I can sympathise with you re costs of counseling on top of tx. It's difficult to know what to do for the best and where to spend your money  I hope you find the help that you need  My dh is also dead against adoption. I am willing to pursue anything as for me I want a "family" - I want family life in the scheme of things, not my own baby above all else, but that is how he feels. I am always on high alert for pg announcements! All has been quiet in my world recently but I am ever vigilant for a spate of them. It is an unwelcome reminder of how we are being left behind by our friends and how our relationships with them are changing  And finally - yes, exhausting is a word I frequently use to describe this whole business. Welcome to the thread!

*wobs*: Very sad indeed to read your short but poignant signature. What cruelty you have suffered  

*Kitten:* hey babe - costs of immunes, budget at least 1/2 tx  

One thing that links us despite our varied IF issues and experiences is that we all keep going? Why do we? Sometimes I think I must appear desperate  The thing is that as someone's dh said, we don't know how close we are - how can we give up and the last X years be for nothing. How amazing would it be to say to people that you tried for X years and had X tx and now you are happy beyond belief that you have succeeded, that you did it - people would think that you were amazing and strong, they would admire you and dine out on your story at dinner parties. What if we never give them the chance to know that about us? It is my sincere hope that this thread can celebrate at least 1 BFP in 2011.

Big love to you all and any lurkers out there - I see ya!
Winegum xxx


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## kitten77

morning

right you peeps are here are always making me have tears in my eyes (not good when at work!) - im glad that so many of us are finding each other and the thread is becoming one that joins us all. all your words are such heartfelt and with such strong and pure emotion. The fact that we can talk so openly and with such honestly without fear of comebacks i admire you, you warm my heart in this darkest hour, a place i can come to air my feelings or just have a chat - even in a short space of time i think we have linked to one another and i thank you from the bottom of my heart. xx

*Nordickat* - what winegum asked? how you end up there (tell us to poke off if you like!)

*winegum* - your so right, why do we keep going? what gives us that strength to try again, or to know when the time is right to move on. i for one never thought i would be strong enough for this, let alone now....well will be 7th time. but its true, how near are we, that is a question i would like to know, as if someone said told me how long and how many i would have to go through to get it i would do it....its the not knowing if it would ever happen is the killer....

*jbox - *yep - round and round in circles we go, one step closer no body knows..... - as for the af, if your worried i would go to your gp, i know tx and that can mess you up for a while after (i know it does me) - but if worried then i would say go and see them....let us know how you get on.

*vw22* - right....trump the magpie saluter....how about this... i to am a single maypie waver, my DH too, the fact that we can be walking along in a group of people both me and DH see this magpie and while still holding a conversation both of us at the same time salute in the middle of the street and carry on like we havent done anything strange, the rest of the group are looking at each other thinking 'what just happened' while we just carry on walking......AND while going through tx there is usually magpies in the hospital car park....we have seen 1, 2 and 3 after our ET...but if we see 1 on its own....we wait....we wait and wait until another one comes along...and this could be up to an hour just waiting for another magpie to come just so we can say we have seen two!!!!!!!! 

*waikiki* - hello my lovely. 

as for me today, just at work, nothing exciting... but i may not be on for a while after today (so dont forget abotu me!!!) - im in antoher office tomorrow so will spend most of the day travelling, then im off on the weekend away so wont get to post much. will hopefully still be able to read from DH's phone and will pop in when i can, but using the phone isnt as easy!!!n - right better get back to work!


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## JBox

I always salute a lone magpie but also have to say "good morning mr magpie" for the "sorrow" to disappear. Or I wait for another to come along to bring me "joy"!!!!! Thank goodness no magpies over here - in uk was literally spending a couple of seconds of every five mins saluting and talking to the thing!!!!


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## waikiki

Magpie Update!

This morning on the way to work I saw two lone magpies and one pair. I guess that means they will balance each other out, so no joy but also no sorrow today...sounds OK to me! I thought of you all and had a little chuckle to myself as I saluted them.

Glad I'm not the only one with an unhealthy magpie obsession  JBox I also have to speak to them and say 'Hello Mr Magpie, how is your partner?' but do it under my breath so that I am not carted off by the men in white coats!

Like kitten I too will be away for a few days with work but will be back on again when I'm home at the weekend. In the meantime, happy chatting ladies!

 waikiki


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## Nordickat

You are all clearly bonkers   I'm not at all superstitious but one of my frinds is always poking my in the eye as he suddenly salutes a magpie!

As for the answer to your questions - DH is Welsh but collaborated with some people here. They sent him some job adverts to distribute in the geeky scientist community that we frequent and there happened to be a job for each of us so we applied. We really didn't think we would ever get the jobs and its not like either of us was even loking for anything but we did get them, and moved here in 2005 ..... nearly 6 years ago   . And its fab  . Although, unlike JBox in tel aviv, all Oslo wins is the 'most expensive city in the world award' ....... although we are consistent and get it every year   . And I'm the same, curious about how people end up where they are, so dish the dirt JBox and VW.

Winegum - it always takes me at least 3 attempts to understand anything my sister texts me!

Kitten - how could we forget you? We'll all be hoping your weekend is much much better than you expect.

If you are really all as none judgemental as you sound then maybe I can confess something? Its causing me a huge amount of stress   . I have to go and see a psychologist on a regular basis because I am officially bonkers (even more so than you magpie saluters   ) I have the badge and everything. Anyway, things are quiet serious and she asked if it was OK to talk to DH and I said yes and now I regret it ........ a lot. He saw her yesterday and they talked about me and I have to go and see her in 2 hours and I'm pooping my pants. I'm not sure I can go through with it. I've been seeing her for a while but it feels different now and I feel very small and vulverable   I'm really scared. OK, going to cry now so moving on  ...........

I too have escaped the pregnancy news pretty much when it comes to people I actually see. My closest friend sent me a sms an hour ago to say her baby arrived last night (  and   ) but she lives up north and I'll not see her for ages now she has a baby. But other than that I think most people have done it already, and my other 2 closest friends never will. I guess thats one of the good things about getting older, we'll have less announcements to deal with ...... until the grandchildren come along I suppose. 

And the reason we keep on trying? Well what is the alternative for any of us right now? There isn't really one. We will all know when the time is right to stop. It'll be when we stop asking 'what if?' We will know when we should stop. I too don't think it'll ever happen for me. I stopped being able to imagine it after my mc. A couple of you said you had no hope at all. Well you do, if you didn't then you would have stopped trying. You protect yourself by pretending you have no hope but really, tucked away, somewhere deep inside, you do have a tiny glimmer of it. If you didn't, you wouldn't be here ......... spot who had this chat with her shrink last week   

I have a book called 'fertile thinking' I can't remember the authors but its 2 women an dits on amazon. Its not about how to get pg, its about how to deal with the emotional side and how to still be you through it all and not be totally consumed by IF. A special FF friend recommended it to me and I have to confess that I am not in the right mental state of mind to get far into it just now, but I know that it will help me in the future. It helped her I know that. It reminds you to think about the good things that happen and all that jazz.

I think this maybe a record breaking post   and I am just using you all to distract me from my appt with the shrink. Time to get back to the real world, 
 Katxxx


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## kitten77

Kat - only just saw this post and so maybe your at your appointment by now so could have missed you.  but can i ask, why are you pooping pants? is it not a good thing that DH is involved with your progress?  i have no experience of this im afraid but from what i see and the good advice you post on here, the appointemtns are a good thing and it can only be a better thing if dh is involved....yes you may feel vunrable now but is that becuase dh is involved and you have opened your world (ie, appointments) up to him...sorry im rambeling, but i hope its a good thing.  how did it go in the end, hope you didnt feel to vunrable.....


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## JBox

Kat - I also see a physcjologist / counsellor call it what u will - once a week and dh jumped on the band wagon and wanted to go too. We went seperately at first then together and now I just see her. I have to admit that I felt weird when dh was there a bit like he had invaded something really personal and private to me and, coz she knew so much stuff about him prior to meeting him, I also felt a bit guilty. But actually it was really good to be there together and for him to go alone.together we thrahsed out a lot of stuff and have opened up about stuff that probably wouldn't have ever been aired - not just about my infertility but also about us how we deal with stuff his daughter who came to live with us etc etc. I understand ur vulnerability at the moment but if ur councellor is good she will not let things uve talked about to her privately or things ur dh has talked about come up unless u bring it up. And she is first and foremost ur councellor so her alliances are with you! 
Ur not bonkers by the way - just human! Xx


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## vw22

I am not sure I am intelligent enough to keep up with this thread, I might just move to the plain and simple 'how do I take folic acid?' type questions on the 'can you get pregnant if you look at someone thread'... 


But no, its a challenge to keep up on here and a good distraction!!! I bet the person checking this thread is asking for a transfer, its a full time job keeping up.


And for those of you pretending to move offices and do other stuff in the next 5 days, we all know its so you can just take your time to read messages really!!!


Your saluting has me in stitches! I just blink and pretend I have seen two magpies instead of the same magpie. I guess thats lying to myself. Let me know when the saluting proves to work and I will start doing it too!!!!!!!!


Right serious stuff. 


It seems everything JBox and kitten says makes sense so hopefully its not an uncomfortable meeting for Nordikat...


I know when I have given up on the two week wait, its when I hoover. Thats when I seriously know there is no hope that time. Until that point even if I say I don't think it has worked to my DH, I deep down I still have hope. The hoovering says I have given up. Needless to say I have a very clean house!!!


Fertile thinking;
I have a huge problem with this. I have NEVER even had a dream where I have a baby in my arms and for ages believed that if I couldn't see it, how was I going to make it happen?  I still worry that I can't see it as clearly as say a new job, or new house. But I have tried and tried and the more I try the more upset I get... That confuses me.


But what Nordikat said about not even making any real effort to get or want that job in Oslo, sums it up. The things you can't be ars-ed to think about happen really easily... Stories like that really prove it. Sometimes the less you try, then things happen This I really believe in.... Just need to put the thinking into practice!!!


My book recommendation for today (above Dr Beers) is "Feel the fear and do it anyway"! 


All time classic. It basically says loads of good stuff but one particular bit I like...


""Its all happening perfectly. There is nothing to fear."" when you readjust your thinking and think of all this stuff in that way, you sort of relax and just get on with stuff. But be warned, if you are in a bad mood, its sounds like a load of rubbish!!!!!!!!


As I can only do 10 words per minute unlike you lot, thats all from me for now...


vx


----------



## Nordickat

VW - don't be under any illusion I can type quickly, I just haven't done any work since this thread started! Maybe not envisaging that baby in your arms is self preservation? I have never been able to picture it either and I actually can't imagine what life with a baby would be like.

Anyway, I just popped on to say sorry for my small outburst earlier and also thanks for you support   . I did burn a lot of calories going to my seesion if nothing else. Walked up the stairs to her office and then down again when I chickened out, then up and down and then a final up before she caught me loitering  . It was as bad as I thought but it did get better again by the end, and JBox and Kitten, you are both right, and I can see the long term benefits. I'm just not very good at councelling and keep more in than I let out. Anyway, sorry and thanks - no more loss of faith or confidence from me.

Have a lovely evening, I am going to open my well earned bottle of wine.
Katxxx

PS. I started typing this at 6pm VW if that makes you feel any better about your lack of speed typing?!


----------



## vw22

Kat - I don't think anyone wants to be 'good' at councelling, so don't feel too much like the odd one out! Seriously though, good to hear it wasn't as bad as you thought. 


I have to sign off for a couple of days... brit friends visiting here on a hen weekend (hoping its going to be classy rather than trashy... Gosh, I am going to be able to do all the things I can't usually do...drink, dance and definately enjoy!!!


Have a good one all of you.


vx


----------



## JBox

Everyones disappearing :-( :-( 
Hope u have a good hen night VW2 and that the mil behaves herself kitten. I'm around not got any fab or exciting plans this weekend so....


----------



## Nordickat

I´ll keep you company JBox, there is nothing exciting happening in my life this weekend either. I have decided to take tomorrow off work though because it was snowing and I was grumpy about it   .


----------



## JBox

Snow sounds like a pleasure right now. It was 30 degrees today and summer hasn't even hit us yet.how u doing today?


----------



## Nordickat

30 degrees  ? Maybe we can exchange some cold air for some warm? I last saw my lawn in October so its been a looooooong winter and I'm so ready for Spring now. Dh dug all the snow off the veg patch last weekend and now its all covered with snow again   30 is a bit too hot for me though although today I would put up with it  We are heading off to Sweden to do some food shopping but I'll catch up with you later. Have a lovely Friday.
 Katxxx


----------



## kitten77

Hey everyone just checking in on weekend away. It's gonna b one long weekend it's only sat! Makes it hard as I really did think I would have been pregnant while here, so much for positive thinking, more here so harder now so positive thinking didn't do well for me did it! So not having great weekend if honest.
Hope your having good weekends and not to hot or cold! On dh phone so can't email much. As will look like I'm miserable and not joining in. Oh hold on gotta go gotta literally hold the baby.....


----------



## JBox

Hope ur having fun kitten? It was sooooo hot this am but temp has dropped to about 25 now brrrrrr!


----------



## Nordickat

Hang in there Kitten and be brave  Make sure you and DH get some time to yourselves while you are there just to gather your thoughts and remind each other that how ever crap the days are, you have each other.

JBox - a grim foggy day for me. I did finish my book, DH sorted out the photos and music, and we just hand-made sausages so it was productive if nothing else. 

Now to choose a new book .........


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Hello Ladies

I have been "eaves dropping" on your thread for the past few days and although I have not had as many treatments as all of you i hope I will still be welcome.

Please forgive me as I may ramble but I so relate to each and everyone of you. 

I have had a roller coaster of TTC for the past 5 years, the first was the brginning of realizing this may not be easy. My first "pregnancy" was ectopic and so weird it was they labelled it "pregnancy with unknown location" my hcg kept rising but could not locate where the pregnancy was... it wasn't in the tubes, wasn't where it was to be and so they figured it was hiding behind organs... so the terminated it with a drug called methatrexate took months and then i had to wait a year before we could try again... which sadly ended in another ectopic this time a tube was removed along with fibroids so major surgery took another 6 months to recover from that... found out the remaining tube was no good, hence ivf... our first icsi was unsuccessful, had 3 embryos frozen attempted to use them but they never survived the thawing process! icsi #2 just ended with a very low hcg reading unfortunately numbers decreased within 3days so ended another dream... we have 3 embryos frozen which we plan to use hopefully in May! so in a nut shell that is my journey, i also have pcos and blood clotting issues... in my last cycle i had a very bad allergic reaction to one of the drugs then was hospitalized with ohss rough one...

Anyway each disappointment is gutting... i do love the spirit of you ladies and how i wish i could just pop into Norway or Tel Aviv or Valencia I am stuck here in Jamaica  by the way it is about 31degrees today and summer hasn't begun...

Wish I could do the personal messages like some of you but can;t seem to so a general note to all, I wish only happiness for you whether it is with a child or not... I am not sure if we can even afford another cycle so if this FET does not work then I am not sure where to go from there.... my husband has a son and that of course has it's own issues but he isn't open to adoption and I am not sure I am there yet... but I will not think about that until I have to.

I may have to re read some of these posts to comment on some of what has been said, but what drew me to continue reading the thread was the spirit of all of you, although you have your own issues sadly you still have that sense of humor... don't really understand the whole magpie story but i did look at the signs... dates that have meaning, my last cycle i swore would work as the same week we got the results was the anniversary of my father's death and my niece was born on that same day so I thought it was a good sign so we would get a positive  stupid sounding I know and just writing it makes me feel silly... 

Anyway I am rambling and I just wanted to come on and say hi and see if I could join what seems to be a great thread with very strong and caring women. Have a great weekend all where ever you are skiing, making sausage (how great is that, i am a foodie and work in a hotel but can't imagine making sausage), climbing mountains or enjoying a hen weekend... we will probably go to the beach tomorrow and tonight we get a massage yeah!

Re counselling i too am thinking about it i think it can only help but i have to consider the cost. We don't have counselling free at our clinic. There is only one family planning clinic here that deals with infertility so it is very expensive.

Later ladies and thx for "listening"  
Jamaicababytrying


----------



## Nordickat

jamaica - I´m sorry for your BFN. But thankfully, we are not the norm in having so many BFNs, and hopefully you´ll get 3rd time lucky with your frosties.


----------



## JBox

JAmaica - a BIG welxome to this thread from me. What an awful time u have had. I am also going for another de cycle in may so we might be ladies in waiting together! Let's hope that this will be ours (and anyone else going for it)s month! 
I am LOVING the idea of a meet up in Jamaica - always been a dream of mine to go there sorry but valencia and norway pale into insignifacance now. Xx
Xx


----------



## waikiki

Just thought I'd pop on and say a quick hello.   

Jamaica - welcome to the thread, we are happy for you to join us, I am just sad to meet another lady who has been through so much.   

Kitten - sorry to hear that the weekend away is difficult.  Personally I think you're an absolute star to have gone in the first place - I tend to lock myself away and keep busy on Mothers Day.  So far today I have planted all of my vegetable seeds, done 4 loads of washing, made birthday cupcakes for my assistant whose birthday it is tomorrow, cleaned out the freezer, cleared out my wardrobe, booked a holiday, and cleaned the house from top to bottom. Me, avoiding something?...whatever gave you that idea?!  I think this must be my most productive day of the year.   

Nordickat - after all that work I've worked up an appetite, so I'm coming round for some of those lovely handmade sausages!  

VW - hope that you enjoyed the hen weekend!

JBox & Winegum  

Let's just     that this will be our last Mothers Day without our little ones...(I say that every year, but one year it HAS to work, right?)


----------



## vw22

Hey everyone... flamenco-henco weekend over and truly exhausted!!!


This thread is really going so global, welcome Jamaica! I can honestly say that I don't think you have had a decent chance to be honest. That might sound a bit weird but so far your 'failiures' have been based on implantation in the wrong place and frosties not surviving a thaw. But overall you are getting implantation. As a nurse once said to me, people that get pregnant usually go on to have babies... When everything comes together, right place and good embryos I would say you are in a really good space to have a successful pregnancy. Own eggs I presume? Not sure of your age. I really think everything being equal, you have a very strong chance for success next time.


Kitten, keep smiling, really hope things aren't too difficult. You will be so proud of yourself for getting through it when you look back tomorrow.


Hi to everyone else and back later...


vx


----------



## JBox

OMG
i am totally freaked out and need advice, probably best for me to go to the immune thread... I did some basic tests last week, just went on line to check my resutls... everything done differently here so bear with me
Everything is normal except:
CRP supposed to be between 0 - 0.5 on mine its in red as 0.7
but wait... Thyroid Perosidase Ab supposed to be between 0 - 35 and mine is 477!!!
what does this mean? help please


----------



## vw22

JBox, really sorry I m out of touch on what it all means... zip over to the immune thread, I am sure they can help. [Agate] especially. Hopefully someone here can too.

Really sorry I can't help but don't panic...in my view when something is a problem, in a way it can be good news, cos they will know how to treat it and you have a chance to do something pro-active, if you get my logic...

vx


----------



## Nordickat

Just really quickly JBox. VW is right, once you have found and issue you can deal with it. To get one of those lovely embies to stick tight you might need some immunes treatment added to your tx and you will need to get your thyroid back under control and that can be done with drugs. You have found a reason for your BFNs and now you can work out how to fix it. Thyroid antibodies doesn´t mean no baby, finding out you have the antibodies has in fact just increased your chances of a BFP because now you can tailor your treatment properly   .


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Hi everyone

jbox: I agree with the other ladies once u know something, it can be treated.... Jamaica is great come anytime   it's hot and dry today though probably about 33degrees...

vw: Yes my eggs and I am 38... thanks i hope so too... i know theoretically i have a good chance and i hold on to that... can i emotionally and financially continue to while i get the negatives in hope of a successful positive... i was telling my husband this morning of the frustrations we face when u have no choices, one clinic, no help with costs etc... so u   and u keep a positive outlook! 

Waikiki: what ever could you be avoiding     our Mother's Day isn't till May and i hate it, although it is a very busy day for us at work so i am usually super busy at work... 

Well going to dinner with a friend this evening and not looking forward to work tomorrow... kinda wish i had some of that homemade sausage and a nice glass a vino though!

 to all...

Take care ladies, by the time u read this it is Monday anyway so Happy Monday


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## Nordickat

JBox - my response was a bit short yesterday so I'll add a bit more now. Your Thyroid antibody results might be high if you have been sick with some sort of infection recently so it might be lower if  you retest anyway. If it stays high, it might mean your thyroid is getting tired from working so hard and might be underactive now which really can be sorted with medication. As for tx, I think if your only issue is your thyroid then you might just need blood thinners (heparin injections and aspirin) which is no big deal and I take them. I'm not sure if prednisolone helps, if it does, again its no big deal and I take that too.

Waikiki - the moose sausges are just hanging in the fridge waiting   I'm glad you got through mothers day so productively.

VW - I hope your weekend was fun as well as exhausting.

Got to go, love to everyone else too, 
Katxxx


----------



## Winegum

Hi Ladies 

*Nordickat: *Geeky scientist community??  You can't just drop that into the conversation and not elaborate  How often do you return to the UK for visits? Have you had to learn Norwegian or can you be lazy and get away with speaking English? I think you are very brave seeing a psychologist and I can understand why you would feel funny having dh involved but I hope it all works out for the best. You are right about not having no hope if that makes sense. Let me clarify: I hope, but I don't expect, so yes, there is a glimmer of hope and I have learnt not to punish myself with thoughts of "it will never happen to you" and to replace them with "tx is random and why wouldn't it happen to me. I just have to get my green dot. What am I going on about? 
http://www.advancedfertility.com/eggquantityquality.htm 
Scroll down for the green dots. This is just about the best explanation for IVF failure I have seen, in terms of reminding me that it is indeed random, and I like the visual image of dunking a ladle into my ovaries  Seriously though, at least we can understand it!

*JBox:* I hope you have found the answers you need about your high test result  Come on then, tell us how you ended up in Tel Aviv.

*vw22:* And you, spill the beans...The whole less you try philosophy is interesting isn't it. And the whole things happen when you least expect them - though how after years of TTC you ever stop thinking about it I don't know. Anyway, I remember thinking after I came off the pill after 11 years, that hopefully my system would fire up and it wouldn't be too long. I started TTC in January, in April I got copious amounts of EWCM and got down to business. My parents booked their trip of a lifetime to NZ for the following January and I remember thinking that they would miss out on the first few weeks of their first grandchild's life  So, I obviously did have more hope and expectation before I hit the infertility clinic a few months later, then it was downhill from there. I do sometimes think to myself that I _might _just get pg naturally because I believe in the power of nature and there are plenty of women who do have amazing stories of natural pregnancies following years of tx, but deep down I know that won't happen to me  But wouldn't it be great of it did 

*JBT:* Welcome to the thread. Isn't it amazing that out of all the women on FF we all have unique experiences and we can't find anyone who has had exactly the same thing happen to them as we have? Everyone id so different. I'm so sorry for all you have been through before you could even contemplate tx  I hope you find some comfort and encouragement from all the crazy magpie saluters and me  You are not silly looing for signs. Let me tell you about my recent one. My SILs father died about 2 days before we were due to test and I saw that as a sign - I thought about the life cycle, one person dying and one person coming to life - it was a sure fire winner don't you think? We all do it in spite of ourselves. So how come you are in Jamaica?

*Waikiki: *   What did you treat yourself too after to as a reward for all the jobs you did on Sunday?

*Kitten: * Well done on getting through your weekend 

I had to have a glucose tolerance test for my level one immunes today and I can honestly say that it was one of the worst things I have ever had to do in the name of tx - I had to drink very sugary water and it was disgusting. As you know, I live in UK, but I can claim to be a bit foreign and exotic as my DH is Turkish and we lived in Istanbul for 5 years before moving back here 10 years ago - just thought I'd throw that into the mix to make us a teeny bit more international  Had a nice chat with dh last night about getting back on track with our tx and how to deal with it etc. I so hope this can end in happiness - see, there I go again, I do have a glimmer down there somewhere 

By for now my lovelies
WG xxx


----------



## vw22

Ha winegum you do make me laugh!


Look I so want to do that whole 'don't try and it will just happen' thing believe me, but how can you "try not to try"?! 


I did think the only thing left to make a transfer different from the other 2 million I have done, would be to turn up drunk. It sort of makes sense on one level... relaxed, happy, full bladder (ha ha) but on an ethical and logical level its obviously a total no-no!!!


My history is I am married to a kiwi so started treatments in NZ, then went to London (where I am from) then ended up in donor world here in spain. I packed my bags for 3 months and have been away for 2 years. Luckily I am a designer so can work online and be anywhere and husband has to travel all over anyway for work. Most of my treatments I have done on my own as he works away 1 month in every 2. So I am pretty tough now. But have meltdown moments.


And even though I said I hadn';t given up on lucky things... I bought a 10 euro top today one, because I liked it and two, because the lable was "under a lucky sky"...how cute. Will probably now wear that every day 14 of each month!!!


Hi to everyone.... I am off to look at the dot link!


vx


----------



## Winegum

*vw22:* OMG...can we get anymore international and exotic?? I had wondered whether you were in Valencia specifically for tx. Handy that your work is not location specific. Do you think you will return to NZ or London once you are ready to leave Valencia or do you quite like it enough to stay?
I know - how can you try not to try?  I also like the "go on holiday, you'll be relaxed" line - I bet we have had about 136 holidays between us since we started ttc  I also wonder if maximum stress and body abuse will finally do the trick  Hope your ten euro top is lucky, just don't whatever you do start saluting it 

What did you think of the dots?


----------



## vw22

I would love to stay but we need to go home and get on with our life. This being on hold is so difficult. I love it here, but it is not where we are supposed to be if you see what I mean.


Everyone said when I got pregnant in a no-treatment month, I told you so, its because you were relaxed... but I think its rubbish, it was my wedding and I was driving from one airport to another, up at 8am and to bed at 3am every night and was NOT relaxed. Distracted yes but relaxed no!


Yes the dots are accurate I think. I had a scan today to check everything inside and there and just by cahnce I could see there were about 5 folicles growing there. But I have to remember at my age, that my good embryos are like the good dots, rarely there any more I expect. So hard to believe.


vx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Winegum you are hilarious... I am a Jamaican just stealing some time on your wonderful thread... i have no exciting story of being whisked away by a hunky Jamaican man and never to return the UK! although i was whisked away by a hunky Jamaican man but right here in my back yard so to speak  Yes I know what you mean about one life ending another beginning i would have taken that as a sign for sure!

I would love to live in another country like you ladies... 

And I do hate it when people say don't worry man it soon happen just relax... i wish, only a miracle could make that happen! or they say keep it up it will happen like ivf grow on a tree and you just pick it off cause it don't cost anything right!

So we go on a beach vacation next week for our anniversary and I am really looking forward to it... lots of drinkies, lots of sun and lots of good food! right before, hopefully, a successful FET


----------



## Nordickat

Jamaica - your holiday sounds the perfect way to prepare for your frosties.

VM - we had better hurry up with our trip over if you are not there forever, although I do like NZ. I don't think there is actually any evidence that you shouldn't get drunk. In fact more babies are probably conceived under the influence than stone cold sober ........ tell me again why we give up drinking   

Winegum - Working in science is not very exciting and really doesn't need elaborating on, trust me! Ironically though, my job is to look for contaminants in the environment, including those that cause infertility! Having a science brain is not always good though and certainly for IVF there is such a thing as too much knowledge. So you are way more exotic than me. Istanbul is much more exciting than Oslo. We are in the UK a couple of times a year for shopping   And yep, I speak Norwegian. My work is 50/50 but everything else is 100% Norwegian, with the exception of the shrink which is in English. And as for seeing a shrink, its not optional lol. If I don't go then I will be reported and have to spend time in acute treatment in hospital ...... now there is an incentive not to skip sessions! The dots were a bit scary and just confirms for me how unlikely it is that it will ever happen ..... but what a miracle it is for those it works for. I hope you feel a bit lighter having had your chat with DH and shared the load a little.

JBox, Kitten and Waikiki   and I hope you are all OK?

I'm having a bit of a tough time right now and I'm struggling to keep my head above water at the moment   . But on a lighter note, does anyone have a boy dog? Mine is 22 months and just discovered girls. There is a girl dog on heat in the street and he is driving me up the wall with his whining/crying/barking to go outside and bark randomly on the off chance she passes by and thinks he is worth a hump. Is it just his teenage years or will this go on forever? He is about to break me   I have tried explaining that the fine looking pedigree hunting dog is never going to fancy a long haired scruffy teenage wheaten terrier, but he seems pretty sure she has the hots for him. Ebay may be the only answer ......

Love katxxx


----------



## Winegum

Nordickat:  do you do this with your shrink? I mean say something about you and quickly move on to something not about you? Lol. Seriously though, what's up honey?  Can we help? Big hugs coming your way xxx


----------



## Nordickat

yes winegum, I do it all the time. I'm OK, its just a continuous battle and I don't always win thats all. Its kind of like walking a really high tightrope, and one false move and you fall into the black hole below   . Thanks for the offer of help though ........... how handy are you at frontal labotomies? 

Anyway, my more pressing concern is my randy dog although humping a big green hippo seems to have tired him out enough for me to try and get some work done.


----------



## jamaicababytrying

*Nordickat*: Yup the trip will be a great way to prepare, if only the trip could guarantee success  as for your theory about being intoxicated and conception love it, maybe I shud get drunk for FET and see what happens  As for the dog sorry no sensible advice from me, don't have dogs and all the mongrels around my house seem to want even those that aren't girls!

Anyway ladies hope u r all having a productive week so far cause i am so not! didn't do much work yesterday at work and home today with lots to do and no energy to do it... all i can think about is the upcoming FET and the success of the embies thawing 

So off to pretend like I am doing something  

Later


----------



## kitten77

hey everyone, glad to know this thread is gaining new members, im glad that me starting it has helped people not feel alone.

im really sorry that ive got now personals but my lovely DH had a rough time today, as he went to the docs today as he booked a appointment off his own back to talk to him about seeing a urologist due to the another failed cycle. but, and to be honest i cant believe he has said it, the doc practically chucked him out the room (made him stand up and leave by holding his back) saying that he hasnt got time for this and they have spoke about it loads of times (ivf that is - not urologist) and that there is nothing that they can do.  DH went there for advice and to see what he says, and has come away embarrased, feeling silly and not ever wanting to go back.  i cant believe the doctor was so insensitive, never in a million years would i blieve a doctor could be like that. 

now dh dont ever want to go back, and now i dont know where to go from here, we were hoping that the doctor may have been positive about sending us to see urologist (as dh has never ever ever ever been checked out even tho its mf factor) and now seems that we will have to pay again to go to urologist as thought we may have had some help from doc and nhs but nope, shot down again. cant believe it.

sorry, bit down.


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Kitten77 I am so sorry to hear of your awful trip to the doctor     how absolutely insensitive of that doctor, how can they be allowed to treat patients like that!

I really hope you find some answers in where next to go 

I am shocked people like those are allowed to practice and in such a sensitive area such as infertility!!!

Keep strong   u find answers.


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Kitten hun    just seen your post., You need to make a complaint, serioulsy your GP for one is not a specialised in urology or fertility so why he has done this is disgusting. Ring Mr Ramsey or email him and tell him what the GP has done and see what he suggests. I would go with your DH and see another doctor, Maybe a female one. I;m so annoyed for you. Hope DH is ok. tell him not to be embarressed, it wasn't his fault, how unprofessional    Please don;t let this go.


----------



## Winegum

*Kitten: * I'm outraged on your and your brave dhs behalf          I urge you not to take this lying down. This is what I would do: Go to the surgery and ask about the complaints procedure. Fill in a form or write a letter or whatever you have to do. Say in the letter/form exactly what happened and why it was unacceptable, say what you would have said if you had had the opportunity. Then, ask to see another gp. At my surgery, you don't have to see your gp, you can see anyone. If necessary ask the receptionist who is the most caring one. Go together to see the new doctor and demand a referral to a urologist. In my many trawls through the net, I once found a paper on how infertility should be dealt with in general practice and I have found it for you. Your gp does not come up to standard, as do many probably. If you are not allowed to see another gp, then I suggest you go, and ask for a referral and now that you know what to expect, you can say you are not leaving until he provides it. I am sooooo angry - does that come across?  
http://priory.com/fam/infertility.htm

ps just seen mighty minis post while I was reviewing mine - go for it Kitten, find a reserve of strength fro somewhere.

*Nordickat: *Didn't I mention that I am a brain surgeon?  Can't help with the dog I'm afraid. Hope you begin to feel like your tightrope is closer and closer to the ground, so less far to fall and less risk of damage  I know, the dots are scary, but with me it helps me to believe that it really is random and that I am not cursed, because I have difficulty believing it will ever happen to me because I am me. 

*JBT:* Thanks for giving me the heads up, I do like to know exactly who is who and what is going on where  Will you stay in Jamaica for your beach holiday? Silly question I expect 

Bye for now everyone  
love WG x


----------



## jamaicababytrying

WG: Yup staying right here in good ole Jamdown  wish it were somewhere else   I like to know who is who too it is so amazing to see the different moves and where things take people! Unfortunately I am plain boring born and bred in this little island! but FF makes me feel like I am on an adventure... 

Kitten I so agree with Winegum about making a complaint, if you can just do it! and as Might Mini said it was not hubby;s fault and he need not feel embarrassed! This is upsetting and it didn;t happen to me


----------



## vw22

Crikey its hard enough to get a man on board with any of this stuff, so for him to be pro-active like that, then shot down for trying to get info, is so disappointing. 


I back up what every one else has said. 


I would avoid any further stress with the GP though and get straight to someone that deals specifically with fertility issues. Ok its going to cost but you will get proffessionalism, someone that has experience and answers much quicker I would hope.


Love to all vx


----------



## wobs

Hi - only me
Sorry I still haven't had a chance to come on here properly and say helloooo - work is craazy etc....but Kitten - we saw Mr R without a referral - just rang up and made an appointment....so don't think you necessarily need one.  If GP won't (but agree with others see a diff GP If you can get DH through the door there again!!) then what about your clinic for a referral Agree urologist is the way to go.  AAAHHHHH why do doctors have to be soooo insensitive at times!
Wobs


----------



## Nordickat

Kitten -   I hope you don't feel we hijacked your thread? But I for one am very grateful that you set this place up for us. Thank you   

MrKitten   - I'm sorry the Dr was so horrid after you were so brave in the first place. Don't let somebody like that make you feel crap about being you. He was in the wrong and had no right to treat you like that. For me changing Dr is actually a big deal but I think its important that you do, not just for your urologist referal but for the future when you need to go and see him about something else. 

I have to tell you about DHs Dr experience the other day, its not sad like MrKittens trip although our Dr is also a jerk and thinks I should stop IVF, stop thinking about having a baby, find a new hobby and 'just move on'   . Anyway, we have to pay 20 quid a time to see a Dr and DH was there the other day about something and the Dr actually used Google to look it up   .......... we can use google for free at home! He seriously looked up DHs symptoms on Google and came to the same diagnosis we already had from our early google search.

Love to all, 
Katxxx


----------



## waikiki

Sorry for the radio silence ladies, just been away with work for a few days...

Right then kittten, let me at that Dr because I think someone needs to knock some sense into him    .  Seriously though, my blood is boiling on your behalf because there is absolutely no excuse for what your poor DH had to deal with.  I agree with the other ladies that you should definitely lodge a complaint, because even if it is too late to help your DH, at least this GP will know that how he handled the situation was unacceptable and will hopefully make him think twice next time.

As for urologists, my DH has also volunteered to go, as after our latest BFN he is convinced that it is down to him.  We've never had any MF issues in the past and the doctors have always been pleased with the quality and quantity of his swimmers.  He had a DNA fragmentation test a few years ago which came back fine and he's also had a karyotyping test, so I don't know if there's anything left to check?  If anybody knows if there are any tests he needs to have, please can you let me know because I don't want to waste his time going to the urologist if he's already had everything done, but at the same time I'm pleased that at least he's offered, so if we've missed anything then he should get it checked out before our next tx.  Also, I've heard you mention Dr Ramsey - where is he based, if we want to arrange an appt?

Kat - can't say that I'm surprised about DH's googling Dr.  When I was diagnosed with my blood clotting issue a few years ago I went to see my GP to find out what its wider health implications could be and what I should do to prevent them.  He hadn't got a clue and I found myself telling him what I had found out about it on the internet.  As it means that I have a higher chance of blood clots and a stroke in the future I was quite keen to find out what preventative steps I should be taking...he told me that I'd obviously researched it very well and asked what had been suggested online!   

 waikiki


----------



## Nordickat

Winegum - I just had to pop on and thank you. I had a seriously hardcore shrink session yesterday and talked more than I ever do, mainly because I kept reminding myself about what you said about my subject change. I got gold stars and everything and I think I should share one of them with you   

I hope you are all OK?
Katxxx


----------



## Winegum

Hi waikiki and wobs  

How are you vw,  JBox, kitten & jbt?

Thanks for your generosity Kat


----------



## vw22

Hi all,


I am here reading but have nothing remotely interesting to say so have kept quiet!!! 


Have been coming down off the prednisolone and feeling rubbish. Too much negative brain chatter and bad nights sleep.


And after the hen-weekend saw pictures of myself and nearly died at how fat I looked. I know its a result of the meds and left over "pregnancy before miscarriage" fat but oh it hurt to see me so different. I even asked my friend to be honest and say if she thought I had put on weight...and she said yes!!! Its not the weight thing as such, its more how I worry about my metabolism on all these meds and any harm it has done. I don;'t regret trying anything to get a baby but it is a worry about the medication we end up stuffing down and up ourselves!!!


Not sure what size I am or what mood I am in anymore?!!!


vx


----------



## kitten77

hey everyone. 

thanks everyone for yoru comments on the Doctor! im still fuming about it, DH cancelled his next appointment with him and asked for someone else, he got a women doctor, he is now laughing about that as the first thing he has to say to her is 'my dongle isnt working properly, can you feel me balls!    while flopping it out! so funny!  but he is still going to complain about the other doctor tho, as not just for himself but for others, he dont want anyone else to have to go through that. 

vw22 - oh babe, so sorry your feeling rubbish, its pants that we have to go through all the meds dont we but like you said we will go through anything to get a baby, i try not to think abotu all the drugs we put into our body otherwise i would worry!  as for the weight issue, its to be expected, i have put on well over a stone, and trying to get it off but its not easy.  but im sure its not as bad as you think it is, we always think worse than it is about ourselves!

nordickat - fantastic about your session, and well done for talking more and not changing the subject - well done winegum for booting you up the bum abotu that!!!!! gold stars hey!!! woohoo!

and you said abotu highjacking my thread!!!! i dont think anything of the sort, you will never know how happy i am to be able to talk to you lot, to finally feel i have a home, to talk to people who really understand about anything in the world!!!!! your my online family!    

kat - omg abotu your doctor googling it! and plus you ahve to pay for that, that is just ....well awful.  did you say anything to him?

waikiki - so your looking at going to urologist as well then?  proper mindfield isnt it.  i have emailed mr ramsey before but will cost a lot to go and see him, not just appointment but travelling to. so wanted to get to see a urologist on nhs if could....but as you know having trouble with that. 

wobs - thanks for the info, have contacted mr ramsey last year, so will see in a few months, just getting over the negative at the momnet, and so planning on more tx isnt on our minds at the moment.

winegum - hows you?

not much up with me im afraid, work work work, while looking at the lovely weather outside!!!!! off shopping with my friend tomorrow and he is good company so glad for that, will ahve few vinos...well mroe than a few, and planning on doing garden on sunday....depending on hangover. 

anyone up to much?


----------



## JBox

HI ladies
sorry i havent been on here for a while, i am presently in london for a weeks holiday, and for a family party this weekend. loving the weather. wow it makes me want to come back and live here. 
I havent had a chance to catch up with everyones posts, but just wanted to say hi and send love to all. hope you are all hanging in ok and that this last week has been an easy one for you. I did very quickly read your horror story Kitten with your DH and your dr. what a prat.Please dont ever go  back to him.
will catch up with you all properly later on. 
xxxxxx


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

kitten - did the doc refer to Mr Ramsey? Hope his dongle was ok!


----------



## kitten77

no dongle examination happened yet....next week.... he dreading it!


----------



## Nordickat

VW -   There is little point in trying to analyse what mood you are in, or what size you are for that matter. I makes no difference and you just feel the way you feel. How long have you left on the prednisolone? I hope its not long so you can feel you again and look at new photos and see you are just the same person you were before.   

Kitten - bless you. I´m honoured to be part of your family    Enjoy your vino tomorrow.

JBox - you obviously took the nice weather with you ........ if you could call in to Oslo on your way home it would be appreciated.

I don´t have much to say really either. I´m under a big black cloud at the moment    .... I had to just leave work today before I exploded/imploded so I guess I´ll have to work a bit this weekend. We did go out earlier and choose where we are going to put our beehives so thats quite exciting. I´ve been working on illegal drugs this week at work and I wouldn´t worry too much about what the IVF drugs are doing to you long term,  although it does mean you can´t participate in any sporting events at the moment I´m afraid VW until you have stopped the prednisolone. Funny to think something that makes you feel so rubbish is actually performance enhancing   . 

Hello winegum, waikiki, wobs and jamaica.
Enjoy your evenings, 
Katxxx


----------



## vw22

Illegal drugs...do you get samples?!


Prednisolone it such a dodgey drug, its takes so long to come off it, you are probably ready to start a new round of treatments before you finish it and have to up it again! Oh well we do anything that helps... 


So the only sporting event I can take part in is the "longest time trying ivf" race? Oh well I'll settle for that.


Heres to that black cloud shifting this weekend and honey...how fab!


vx


----------



## Nordickat

I have a fridge full of dodgey stuff, you name it, I have it    

I hope we are all coming to the end of the IVF race ..... I need my life back. Although, can any of you actually remember that far back? What was life before IVF? What do ´normal´people fill their thoughts with?

The bees will be fab and I´ll send you some honey next year. DH has been telling me what a money maker it will be but neglected to mention the 1000 quid it costs to set up   .


----------



## Winegum

What a good chat topic Nordickat.  I'll be back at the weekend with my musings - it is something i have been thinking about lately.  Have a nice weekend everyone!


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Hi Ladies

Not much happening on this end weather is like how i feel bleaky... good news is that my big brother is here visiting fro the States for the weekend so we'll be going out later to enjoy some Rum and company!

Nordickat I hope it is the end of the road for us all too... I know what you mean about not remembering what it was like pre ivf, and i try to picture myself post ivf with baby in tote! I thought i could envision it before i got my last negative but i was wrong again...

Anyway i hope u all have a good weekend enjoy the weather and your hubbies... will check in on the weekend...


----------



## Nordickat

Which bit are you planning to muse on winegum? The pre-IVF life, or my fridge full of illicit drugs


----------



## Winegum

Ahhhh haaaaa  you'll just have to wait and see!


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Morning Ladies

I hope your weekend was nice and relaxing  

So I just need to vent a bit. We went out last night saw someone we know she is probably 43 or 44 and now very pregnant.. I can't explain how I actually feel, don't want to offend any of the over 40 ladies but how can she at 44 be pregnanct and me at 38 nothing   my husband was quick to remind me though that i don't know her struggles (if any) to get there... and I totally understand that but... then to top it off i had a breakout of bumps in the middle of the party so my chest and both arms had these little bumps and i was itching! when I got home I just broke down! what is wrong with me and these tears... can't i just accept and move on to making things better.

I said to him I don't think I ready for the general population as yet   hope I don't sound like a complete whinner  

Have a nice day everyone going to try and stop feeling sorry for myself...


----------



## Nordickat

Hello everyone   

I hope your weekends were OK? I spent some of mine checking out what didn't survive our super hard winter this year. The vine has finally gone - serves me right for trying to grow grapes at 59 degrees North! The bamboo is looking a tad peeky, and the deer and moose ate all the buds on my baby apple trees. My berry bushes look fab though ..... Gardeners World with Kat hey   . Other than that, too much soul searching for me this weekend ...... thank goodness for holidays ....... have I mentioned I'm going away in a couple of days   

Jamaica - you just have to remind yourself that you don't know her story. My best friend looks the picture of happiness with her new baby but her dad died suddenly at Christmas, and her and DH have spent the last 6 months dealing with horrible bullying at work (to the point he had to leave his job) - things are not always as they seem from the outside. I also look like the luckiest lady alive sometimes and nobody knows how much is hurts to be me right now, and getting a BFP won't be the cure all for me. I hope your bumps have gone down now and you put the party behind you and enjoyed the rest of your weekend.

Love to all of you, 
 Katxxx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Hi everybody

Nordickat: Logically I know all those things, but you know when are so frustrated and at that point I had the itching and bumps coming up and reminding you of your own journeys, i just snapped. Thank goodness not at the party but when I got home. The bumps were gone by morning and that has been happening when I do breakout. 

I am better now and actually went to brunch with a bunch of friends on Sunday morning. It just so happens that one of my friend's wife who is 44 has been going through the same thing and she has not had any success either. So we are going to link up to chat. It's a relief because i knew no one in Jamaica that has this dealing with, so it is a nice change to be able to talk to someone.

So we are off on our anniversary getway Friday morning can't wait for that... lots of Sun, Sea, Sand and S*@&#$... 

Have a great week guys. Easter is next week!


----------



## vw22

Really sorry I havn't been on here much! I am here just have nothing to add to the mix thats of any interest (except to a physcologist I am sure!).


The thought of moose and deer nibbling in your garden made me realise I have no worries really about my plants!


I let go of the last of my embryo pictures today. I have had so many that it was getting ridiculous. I know they like to do a transfer and then give you a picture but seriously these things were beginning to remind me of 'failiure' not 'hope' after they started stacking up!!! A while back I burnt every thing I had. Test results, letters, pictures ...and it was the most free-ing thing I have done. I had two folders of paper. I digitally photographed everything first and then put it in a folder on the computer. That way you have it if you want it but you are not tripping over a fat folder of misery every time you go past a book shelf. 


Anyway after burning I took the ashes and scattered in the sea saying a sort of good bye to everything. I believe getting rid of all that stuff frees up space for something new to come into your life.


Today though wasn't as straight forward! The matches I had wouldn't work so I ended up folding the pictures up and attaching them to a bit of wood and watching it float off in the meditterean. Not quite as 'freeing', as I felt I was just littering the ocean... But they are gone from my house and thats all that matters!


Love to all and the end of today's musings... vx


----------



## Nordickat

vw - I´m quite sure your musings are equally as interesting as anyone elses and certainly way more interesting than my wafflings    You sound like you are having a bit of a hard time at the moment? I can imagine that watching your stuff float away was not as satisfying as destroying it, but I do still like the idea of sending it away. Maybe its a more peaceful way to find closure than setting everything alight ...... perhaps its even better than burning when you think of it as a calming goodbye? Now its gone it can´t haunt your thoughts any longer I hope  . I have never had a photo and I wish I had for my mc cycle. I mc´d before my first scan so have no proof that my baby ever existed so I would have liked embie photos for then. So, now you have that space, what are you going to fill it with? Does something new just come along or do you have a plan to go and get something?

Well, we go away tomorrow and DH is being a complete @rse    Apparently I am so remote sometimes that the only way to get my real attention is to be horrid and upset me   . I don´t believe that and I think he just made it up to pass the blame back to me. I´m sure you can imagine how much I´m looking forward to a 10 hour flight with somebody who seems to have raised the desired standards to way beyond my reach? He is out getting takeaway so I have about 20 mins to become the vision of perfection that is required! Anyway, I´m sure he will simmer down once we get to the airport   

I hope the sun shines on you all for the next week and that something makes you smile every day.
 Katxxx


----------



## Winegum

Have a fab holiday *NordicKat*   Will you be checking in on us or are you having a complete break from everything?

Hi everyone, I am due a mega post, I know, but I'm busy preparing for my appointment with Dr Gorgy on Monday so only have time to lurk and read at the mo, but you are all always in my thoughts and I promise my musings AND wafflings as soon as I can reasonably sit down for an extended period and give you my full attention


----------



## vw22

Winegum, I am missing your view on life and the universe!


Nordikat, sounds like 'blame tennis' to me, nothing more sinister just simple bloke stuff, so stand strong and know that while he is needing to vent he doesn't have a nice thread like this to come on to!!!


And you are right maybe a calming goodbye is better than a 'set light' and destroy mentality. 


I may be different from other people so I hope I don't offend anyone but having a picture didn't make it any more 'real' for me, so please don't feel you have missed something by not having one. But thats easy for me to say...


As for the space. Its not for me to look and try to fill it (in my view)...the universe will do that for me. All I have to do is be open and accept what comes next. 


A bottle of wine will probably help too.


Much love to all and N have a great trip away.


vx


----------



## kitten77

Hey all, ive been lerking and not posting either to be honest. after my last failed cycle I don't have any motivation for anything, and even don't really know what we are going to do next. 

Vw22 - what a faboulas idea of yours to 'clear space' for new things that really speaks to me. granted I am unable to get rid of all my paperwork incase this is needed for furture treatments, and alas i to have never had a embryo picture, but I am like you I think and don't think it would have made any difference to me if I had a picture or not. it was still a fail and was never to be. 

Nordickat - you will be on your hols now! so hope you have a brill time. enjoy! Hope DH was in a better mood and the flight went ok!!!

Jamacia - I know EXACTLY how you feel and its normal to feel like that. I am always saying 'why not me' but the thing I have come to realise is that its just not me, I cant control it and yes you never know what they have taken to get there (that don't help tho to be honest). glad you found someone you can chat to there tho, always nice. Hope your 'stress' bumps and lumps are not to bad, that cant be nice. I have stress heads, due to all the muscles in my back (I have scoliosis) and get mega headaches - so the stress all effects us in some ways. 

Winegum - hows you?

As for me. like I said nothing to report. Work is cr4p, but due to not many jobs around I cant do anything about it, DH is down in the dumps and its hard to try to keep upbeat while trying to keep him upbeat. We have no plans for further tx at the moment, even tho it will happen in time, but at the moment I don't think we are both in the mood, strong enough or have enough money to do it again. this time will be stressy tho as it will wipe out our savings and so nothing to fall back on, which is prob one of the reasons why its not in the forefront of our minds. 

Thank you all for being such good friends&#8230;&#8230;


----------



## JBox

Hi girls
I haven't been on for a while having had the best holiday in the UK catching up with old friends and all my fam. It was just what the dr ordered! I have had a "clear" week not really thinking too much about all my failiures and more just having fun something I haven't done for a Very long time. Man I am so sad to read everyones posts here and to hear how low some are feeling. I know ill be joining you all in the next couple of days when life returns to normal (and after my appt tommorrow eve with my consultant- that will bring me down with a bump)! I had an appt with dr gorgy when I was in london which was reassuring in one way just to have someone who actually listened to me and took down my history but annoying too coz it set me back rather a lot financially!! I don't know if anything will come of it and my next cycle is just round the corner (may). I already know its not going to work so I'm not even thinking about it! How bad is that!! 
Anyway just wanted to touch base and send love to all of u lovely ladies. 
xxxxx


----------



## vw22

I was thinking if we were all in business together we would have a great business. So much commitment, loyalty, commaradary, great researching, focus, energy, will power etc etc...all the attributes needed to run a powerful business!!! Some of you maybe already but I was thinking more if you harness all the power we have together... anyway more random thoughts!


Kitten77... its hard checking out your own emotions without worrying about everyone elses too. Its like avoiding treading on egg shells...drives you nuts. Time is the only thing I find helps. Going with the flow is easier said than done sometimes, but definately helps...


JBox, sounds like you have had some fab time out! Hopefully we are not being too down in the dumps on here!!! I think I like it here cos everyone is real but quite funny about the situation...and honest. Some threads are 'so life is over' makes you feel like giving up on everything! Even though we moan here, I like the fact there is always hope, however small. So you up for lots of immune drugs for your may go? Lots of new stuff will make it feel a bit different at least?!!!


vx


----------



## JBox

Oh VW, i agree with you completely, the women on this thread are F A N T A S T I C!!! i feel like i have found my new home on this site. I was on a number of other threads ( i belong to so many groups, ttc naturally, ivf, poor responders, donor eggs etc etc) and then the lovely Kitten started this thread and i fell into it. (dont get me wrong kitten, i wish you hadnt had to start this thread, if you know what i mean but i am so very happy to meet you all and not feel so alone  in all of this) And i agree with what you say about us being a great business team... we would be up there with the facebooks and the microsofts leaders!!!!

so i have hit home with a bump, and am back to prowling around on FF all day. Am off to see dr tonight, and well i am starting to feel the pressure the sadness the loneliness the despair again.... this flipping journey, will it ever end? i am doing a de cycle in may and i am really freaking out about the whole de thing again ( was here 6 months ago and am back again to all the questions and all the why mes?).. I know deep down that its not going to work, i mean really why should this one be any different to all the others over the past 2+ years? i hope that i will be able to get some immune txs in before doing the actual transfer but i am not hopeful since we are looking at a time frame of only one month and by the time i get the results back etc etc. 

So friend / pregnant update:
one cousin just had 2nd baby 
one friend 13 weeks preg
one friend 12 weeks preg
one friend 11 weeks preg
one friend trying to get preg with her third ( she wont have any problems, it will be an announcement any day now)
girl i sit next to at work 7.5 months preg

beat that one girls?


----------



## vw22

Oh honey. Your list of friends is pretty long! And they are all doing for FREE!!! I think because I am older my lists are getting shorter! 


But having said that I am glad these people don't have to go through what we do. But its still a killer when that call comes through. Our thing is fertility. Someone else may have 2.5 children but they will be suffering with something else...disease, losing loved ones, marriage on the rocks, no money, horrible job... there will be something making them unhappy...


By the way I never even waited for the results I just tried all the immune treatments anyway (as I was just about to do a FET when Dr G did the tests)! I just thought it couldn't do me any harm. You could try that approach? you don't need to take the clex, pred, gestone shots, aspirin, til day 5 anyway, so don't panic, you can still factor it in. And they are cheap-ish to buy too...


vx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Hey Ladies

I am out of town as of tomorrow (our 5th anniversary) Friday till Sunday so i will be MIA for a short time.

Kitten I strongly believe that we all deal with stresses differently! I have the headaches (migraines) too, and they last at least 3 days. So i feel your pain on that one. 

JBox you sound like you had a productive visit so happy for you.

Noridc I hope the trip is going well, altho u may be too caught up to even check your messages.

Everyone else HEY! have a great weekend ladies, you are the best...


----------



## JBox

its all very quiet here ...


----------



## vw22

I am around... but still not much to say! vx


----------



## JBox

Me neither actually!!! Just feeling generally crap about to get my period and feeling v pmt! I hate my period I wish it would stop coming for 9 months


----------



## vw22

Nothing like pmt to really rub in a situation! Nature is so cruel sometimes... 


At least a period means healthy stuff still going on inside...if you have the energy to look on the bright side?! vx


----------



## JBox

Not really! Spent my 20s waiting each month for my pd to come and my 30s desperate for it not to come!


----------



## vw22

Yes, if we had only known then what we know now... but we would never have believed it anyway!!!


----------



## kitten77

im here.....but yep on the dreading AF here to.  so bloated, groggy, fat, depressed and no bright side.....i stupidly thought that as this is my first AF after isci that i could have been on of those lucky ones who as had all the drugs etc that could be messed up inside and fall pregnant naturally......nah, no such luck.

but..... the sun IS shineing, we DO have a 4 day weekend to look forward to, and i had one of the best weekends that i have had in a long time, but just the dreaded af to kick the boot in.....ho hum.....


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Hi Ladies

I am back to reality  the weekend was great, the resort lovely and the weather awesome... had a few moments, once we were at dinner and a couple we were eating with couldn't stop talking about their 2year old daughter and her relationship with her father. Hubby and I had a relaxing weekend and never wanted to come home to the realities that await us... 

So it seems our group has been very quiet, I hope everyone is doing well and not feeling too down to post.

My AF has not arrived yet and that's what i am waiting on to go see my doctor so on day 12 he can scan me to check on my lining (hopefully nice and thick) so that we can proceed with the FET!

Well not much more to report. 

Just wanted to let u all know I am back after feeling temporarily normal...


----------



## wobs

Hi ladies

Sorry - i said hello a few weeks ago and then vanished!  We've been having a sneaky quiet cycle.  I know its weird but just found it easier just to get on with it & not over-obsess (well I did anyway!!! - but hope you know what I mean!!)  
Sadly got the call this morning that nothing made it to transfer.  Feel gutted, but in a way we were kind of expecting it I suppose.  
Like some of you we are going through the where do we go from here?  
Last cycle we got our first ever BPF (5th ICSI) - though was blighted ovum.  I foolishly thought then one more go and that'll sort it.  Sadly got less eggs (only 3) and then only 1 fertilised.  We have taken the route in the last 3 cycle to go to blast whatever - to see if it is the implanation or the dividing...and although it just made it to day 3, it didn't to day 5.  We did IMSI too this time.   
So a time for soul searching and thinking.  I've always thought that as long as we were learning on each cycle and improving things there was a point to it....But this cycle was worse than the previous one....

Any ideas on questions for follow up?  Obviously the biggie is it is worth trying again?
Part of me thinks we should stop and move on - but if there is a chance I don't want to stop.  Must be  glutton for punishment   

Sorry to bring a downer on to the thread & I will catch up with personals & get to know you all!!

thanks
Wobs


----------



## JBox

Wobs hi
I am so so sorry to hear ur news - know how it feels I had a cycle that was cancelled as I had no fertilization and after all the stimms and feeling pretty awful anyway to get that was just so devastating. I don't really know what to say - having gone thru 13 cycles and only one bfp which also ended in a blighted ovum, I am the last person to give u advise.  Just to let u know that we r all here for u. The women on this thread are the best. Take it easy over next few days / weeks and give urself time to recover 
Sending love xx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Wobs so sorry to hear your news. Take your time to heal, you don't have to make any decisions yet... you have a lot of support on this thread so whenever you feel like venting just do it.


----------



## Winegum

Oh *Wobs* - how sh**ty  
I am so overdue a post here - sorry for my absence. I am just quite busy and struggling to keep up with all my FF commitments  I haven't forgotten you all and promise I will be back soonish with a mega post - you know what it's like, sometimes you only have time to lurk  I have got another gp story to tell you, not at all as bad as kittens, but lets just say I'm glad I usually stay away  
Lots of love to you all
WG x


----------



## wobs

Thanks ladies


----------



## fiona in welwyn gc

Hi Girls

Can I join you?  I realise my cycles are not exactly failed but I still don't have a baby   

Fee
xx


----------



## Jet

Hi Girls   
Can I join you in this thread? yesterday I have just had my 7th tx fail again   I did not get my hopes up to much as I expected failure !   I do not even make it to test day before bleeding begins....
At the moment I feel sad, tears ect, but I know I have given this tx my all and there was nothing else I could do...
I do feel angry with my body we used donor embryos because we get such low quality embryos but my body could not even do that! I read in a magazine once no one chooses this in life but when the ball gets throwen at you all you got to do is run with it! Well we have run with it after 16 years and 7 failure IVF,3 failure IUIs  I do know what else I can do??
sorry about me ranting on, It was so nice to feel like I am not on my own, as someone else posted everywhere there seems there is families people popp they out like peas but for some it is the hardest thing in the world.
Now I am 40yrs I feel like time is running out, I feel like my life has no direction any more....
thanks for reading my post
Happy Easter, and hope dreams come true!  
take care
Jet


----------



## Winegum

Jet and Fee, heatbreaking signatures   and tough times you have both had - a warm welcome to the fold from me x


----------



## kitten77

hi everyone, long time no speak from me too, been away with work.

fee and jet - welcome, wish it was under better circumstances tho. big hugs.

wobs - ive had a sneeky quite tx too, thought if never told anyone then wasnt really happening and so wouldnt obsess......didnt work!!!! i obsessed just as much as one when we did. sorry to hear no transfer, what a load of poop.

hello to everyone, not much to say my end. but im still here.


----------



## JBox

Welcome to the newbies sorry to read ur signatures u both been thru the mill and back (is that the expression)? 
Off to have an early night am shattered x


----------



## Emziola

Hi Ladies,

Can I join you please?

I've been trying to find a thread where I would 'fit in' and although I haven't done as many cycles as some of you ladies I can't help but feel it's not going to happen for me and I'm not sure how to move on.  I have had 4 funded cycles so I have been lucky in that respect but feel like they were maybe wasted due to the wrong treatment/lack of diagnostics.  

I've changed clinics and will be having probably my only self funded go.  I can't afford to do more financially but feel as though it might need more than one go to figure it all out.  I'm having immune testing done and have referred myself to CARE in Notts.

Sorry for the me post.  I hope to get to 'know' you all better.

Kitten, I think I remember you from another thread but I can't remember which one?

Best wishes to you all,

Emz xx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Welcome Emz, Fee & Jets so sorry to read your signature but u are in the right place... 

these ladies are great and funny and positive... 

QUiet on my end, still awaiting AF can't move forward tell it shows it"s ugly face   Easter is here and a long weekend, unfortunately i have to work one of the days but we plan to light up the bbq and have some burgers! it's been kinda hot so it will def. be an evening light...


----------



## JBox

Hey Jamaica-  im at work today, til 4 - its a big holiday here all week, but i had to work one day and today was my day... tonight i have 16 for a bbq! I have done nothing and have no food in, have left it to my dh to organize. and it looks like its going to rain today (grrrrrr after a week of 30 degrees). Am so tired and have so much to do and so cant be bothered. 
I am also waiting for my af to arrive so that i can start prepping for my cycle on may 15th. but i am going into it knowing that its not going to work so i am not excited or anything! just doing it by matter of routine now! i thought about doing the "on the quiet thing" too, but i have done that and it didnt work. have done the " tell everyone talk bout it to everyone" thing and that didnt work either. now i am just doing the " oh well another cycle which isnt going to work" thing...hahaha!
have a good day everyone.


----------



## vw22

Hi everyone, welcome to the new faces but sorry you are here. This is a funny thread, its get lively and then goes quiet...but it seems to work!!!


I don't know if you lot realised but I did a FET last month (I mentioned it a while back but it got lost in the magpie stories I think!) anyway it was my  13th transfer and a pee test has said negative again. I did the whole 'I don't care routine" up to the test, but the harder you try not to care, the more you do. I think I cried for a nano-second and that was it. Weird. The nice thing is the clinic did it for free. How incrediable is that...human nature won over the profits...made me feel good anyway.


Hey Fee, we find ourselves on another thread together...one day we'll be on the 'buying a pram thread"...!


Sorry no other personals, am trying to catch up...


vx


----------



## kitten77

hey it does go quite and busy on here....think the weather has taken everyone away.

vw22 - oh god so sorry we missed your fet!!!! how awful do i feel now   - but also feel awful that 13 was unlucky for you....again, but like me seems to get easier (?) each time, or we just kid ourselves that we are ok.    wow you got it for free, would have been nice to have worked.  oh babe, massive hug for you   

sorry no personals either, i have to go home from work now, gotta wedding!!!! lots of wine and 3 course meal! 

be back on weekend. love ya all.


----------



## wobs

VW - so sorry to hear about your BFN   take care

Wobs


----------



## vw22

Thanks Kitten but NO, Don't feel awful at all!!!...for once the no-fuss approach probably made it easier. I feel I have gone beyond worrying everyone on here everytime theres a twitch and possible symptom... gonna leave that for the girls that are well below the amount of times I have tried!!! 


Thanks Wobs...


Have a good weekend everyone! vx


----------



## JBox

VW I know u did it on the quiet but I am so so sorry for you darling. I know the more we do it the more hardened we become, but its sTill devastating. Sending u huge hug. Xx


----------



## vw22

JBox, thank you too. You are right of course. vx


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## jamaicababytrying

vw so sorry, i am going to try the keep it quiet thing. I am going to hope for the best and prepare for the worse. I don't know about the more tries the easier or is it just kidding yourself like kitten said! anyway chin up have some wine...

JBox good luck on the bbq... i couldn't leave that up to my husband nothing would be done something would be left out, like the most important thing, means well though  maybe we will be on the same "cycle" when i do my FET in May  

Have a happy and holy Easter everyone will be back on again tomorrow. Be safe and have happy thoughts...


----------



## Nordickat

I´m back. Just having a quick catch up before unpacking the bikinis and packing the sweaters ready for the mountains tomorrow .

Wobs and vw -  . I´m so sorry for you both   
Fee, Jet and Emz -    and I hope you feel at home here. I think this thread is different from others because we have a different goal, and maybe we are all just looking for happiness in whatever form we can find it. 

  to everybody else. I´ll be back next week to tell you how fab diving was   . Dive resorts are real escapism ....... its just far from the real world.

Katxxx


----------



## Jet

Happy Easter Girls   
The weather has been lovely, it does make you feel better...thank you girls for making me feel very welcome.
I am sorry your FET did not work VW22 it is really unfair...  
As for me I am feeling better after my last fail tx, the sun has made me feel a bit more human, just wish the bleeding would stop now hope it does not last much longer x   
thanks again girls
Jet


----------



## JBox

Hi  girls

I hear the weather in UK  has been amazing, hope you English lasses enjoyed the bank holiday and have been basking out in the sun. 

Ok, sorry for the me post, but I am on a bit of a downer today. After taking the decapapytil injection 10 days ago, I started the progynova yesterday and am still waiting for blood results to come back from Dr Gorgy to see if i have any immune issues. Since I cant wait another month I am planned to go for DET mid may even if I don’t have enough time to do follow up immune treatments this time. 

But i have spent the last couple of days thinking about the last few years and how my treatments just haven't worked and yet how life has just carried on - how all the babies i have seen born around me have grown up to little toddlers, even pre schoolers, and how much time has gone by. How we have got older, how many friends, family members I have seen get pregnant, give birth, get pregnant again and yet nothing has changed my end. That gets me down the most, the day to day routines that turn into weeks, months, and then years with no changes, and how it feels like everyone elses lives just keep moving on and up. 

And i have a naughty confession to make. After so many failed cycles, I took up the cigs again., i found the stress, the disappointments, the upset, and the (lets face it), depression, led me back to them after 6 years. With each BFN they came out until the next time I started cycling and then they would go away again. But this month, coz i just KNOW its not going to work, i can't seem to stop. Its like i am on a self destruct and keep saying to myself, "well I may as well enjoy that strong coffee and have that extra ***, coz well, whats the point in refraining from those things any more. Life has been on hold for 3 years, and nothing has come of it, so may as well as just do the things that make me happy"! I really wanted to go into this cycle with no expectations and totally blasé but as I am moving towards it, I cant help but  start to feel sad and down for that inevitable negative. And I am angry with myself for feeling like this and for obsessing about it again and for not stopping smoking / coffee and for not giving myself the best possible chance, but I just cant seem to get myself on track, mentally emotionally or physically….

I am so sorry for the me me me post and for putting a downer on the thread today. 

Xxxxx


----------



## vw22

Hey all,


Hope you had a great weekend!


Jbox, I think we all understand exactly how you feel. I am not sure I can say anything that would help but .... basically I totally get why you feel like you do. 


When you had your first baby, I bet you weren't worrying about anything to do with fertility so I honestly don't think it will do any harm just to have some sneaky puffs and a cup of coffee. We beat ourselves up so much and put ourselves through so much and to be honest, the reason we are not getting pregnant is something far beyond our control. 


My only advice is, based on what helps me find the energy to be committed to another go each time, is to do something different. Whether its trying something I havn't done like yoga etc or a new tea or vitamen etc. I don't mean to patronise you (and lets face it finding something new to try for most of us is hard!) but somehow it helps me. 


By the way, like I said I got the immune treatments in before I had the results just to try something different. Have you tried taking aspirin, prednisolone and clexane before? If not maybe these could be your 'new and different' things for this try (with a doctor saying its ok of course). Its all about breaking the cycle somehow.


I found that when I tried to realax and just 'chill out' with a treatment, having a sneaky glass of wine or something, I just ended up feeling so guilty. Its the guilt thats a killer. I don't know how you ever stop that.


Anyway just don't beat yourself up anymore. Its a difficult thing enough to go through and you don't need the extra pressure. What you are feeling is to be expected. 


I probably havn't helped but just wanted to say hi and that I understand and know those feelings too well.


vx


----------



## JBox

Thanks v, you don’t patronise, you are great!!!! i will stop today, I promise today will be my last day. (just going to enjoy it for another 24 hours). 
Hopefully ill get some answers from Dr G  too so i can at least put them to my dr here to prescribe something new. i think i have done everything, ranging from acupuncture, reflexology, massages, yoga, healthy foods, zita west, no alcohol, no coffee, new drugs, different dosages, to doing absolutely nothing to help myself. The way this month is going its a nothing!!!!. So I have to change it, tomorrow i will stock up on good wholesome foods, veg, fruit and lots of pineapple juice and brazil nuts ( done that loads too!) 
I am going to do it, yes I am !. 
When i fell pg over 4 years ago, i was naive and clueless. I assumed EVERYONE fell pregnant and had babies. I mean, i knew of some people who were having a tough time and were going through treatments, but i had absolutely NO idea whatsoever what that really meant. I took my pregnancy for granted, i did obviously stop smoking and cut my caffeine intake down, but i enjoyed the odd glass of wine, and i carried on as per normal, working like a nutter, traveling with my job, moving house, lifting boxes etc etc. It never really crossed my mind that anything could go wrong. 
Having now gone thro what i am going through and all you lovely women are going through thro, i can honestly say that i was an unappreciative, ungrateful cow unaware of the risks, and more, of the absolute miracle a healthy pregnancy / baby is. 
I want to here and now make a vow, something that I have discussed with my partner on numerous occasions, but that I want to put down in black and white: If if if if if i ever get pregnant and have a successful pregnancy to term with the result of happy healthy baby again, i am going to draw so much awareness to the awful nightmare infertility is. Here, the Drs are very efficient, and the clinics do what they can to help medically- there are very few problems obtaining meds, and treatments are heavily subsidized ( hence being able to have so many!). And that is all great. But there is absolutely NO  emotional support at all for couples / no information/ no one guiding you through what is, a very traumatic time. You have to look for it everywhere else but from your clinic or your consultants. I need to have a baby first before I will feel strong enough to do this, but I am determined that one day I will set up a clinic that supports and helps people going through this, that arms people with all the necessary information, that provides answers to questions, that offers counseling, nutritionists ( not that I have followed that path!), alternative therapies alongside the treatments, but most of important offers support groups for others to talk to each other and share their experiences. This site has been a godsend to me. Absolutely amazing, informative, and supportive and this thread is a joy, and I love being here with you all ( although I wish it was under different circumstances), but where I am based, there is nothing that offers anything like this and I am going to make it my mission to set it up.
First of all though I have to get reach my main and only goal today - of having another baby ….

Right , I can stand down from my soap box now 
( …big sweeping bow…)

xxx


----------



## Nordickat

JBox -   you really do have a heart of gold and I hope you set up your clinic so that something good comes out of all this heartache   

Nothing more constructive from me I'm afriad - post holiday blues and post holiday inbox are weighing me down   

But,   to you all, 
Katxxx


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## kitten77

oh god jbox - you have summed up how i feel!!!!!  how life just seems to go on and you want to scream that 'how can you carry on as normal'!!!!! but life, days, weeks, years go by and nothing changes......its enough to turn the sanest person mad!

but - wow and what a lovely idea of the clinic, i wanted to look into becoming a counciller for infertility, (i think i have the experience dont you think!) - but raising awareness is a good thing! im with you tehere.

glad that your positive head back on (and dont blame you on having the next 24 hours till you start as thats what i do), but you go girl.


----------



## Nordickat

its that horrible lonely feeling of stagnating while the rest of the world moves on isn't it?

JBox - I know you said you wish you were here with us all under different circumstances, but maybe its our circumstances that have made us all the empathic, caring, witty and courageous women that we are, and if we hadn't been on this journey then we wouldn't be the people we are, and the people you want to cry and giggle with ......... does it sound like I'm scraping the barrel to find a positive somewhere? And as for another 24 hours of bad stuff before you put your halo back on, go for it. You know in your heart that it really will make no difference and you won't get a  BFN just becuase you smoked a few. 

I also thought I would go into this cycle open minded and 'hey its probably not going to work anyway so why stress', but I'm finding it hard. I'm not normally negative about tx, just indifferent, but this time I'm dreading my BFN, and I'm actually scared about failure before I've even started. I'm not usually like this at all. I think it is starting to hit home that I'm coming to the end of my journey. This try, then one more later this year, and then we are 'moving on'. And how does the whole 'moving on' thing work anyway? How do you tell your brain and heart that tomorrow they have to wake up and not want to be a mum anymore   . Thats why I keep on trying, because I don't know how to stop. I did find a way to avoid all those heartbreaking pregnancy announcements though, by walking away from all of my friends. Their baby talk nolonger hurts but the loneliness does. 

Not a bad ramble for somebody with 2 weeks work to catch up on hey? 

 Katxxx

PS. Just for the record, I'll be stimming later this week. I'm not a follicle, egg or embie counter, and not a symptom spotter either, so I'll not be mentioning it again here. I'm only saying now because I will need a hug in 4 weeks time if thats OK?


----------



## JBox

Nordikcat, 
so it looks like we are cycling together. But i am with you on the no symptom spotting thing! So i wont be declaring all on here, but i am with you on this one, so if you want to pm me please do ( i might pm you if thats ok, when i get all down and out!). i am trying to be low key about it, even though i am so used to the disappointments, they still hurt. But i am trying to harden myself up to four weeks time too. 
xxx


----------



## kitten77

Nordikcat you speak sense.

well someone was saying here about doing something different, maybe the negative is the differnt thing to get your positive.....like you scraping barel here.....but yuo never know.

with your your talk of needing a hug in 4 weeks time....im hoping that you jinx it and your body is saying 'well if your thinking like that im gonna work' - so yes i hoping to be giving you a hug of congratulations in 4 weeks time.  but if not, here for hugs all round. 

good luck both of you (and ps, if you want to moan, symptom spot, rant, follie count.....we are here for you every step of the way!)


----------



## Nordickat

PM me anytime JBox   . 

Thanks Kitten. As nothing at any stage has any bearing on the final outcome, and I've talked about it 7 times before I really won't have anything to say. I'd bore myself let alone you guys   . And, I like the fact that we don't actually talk about tx on here if you know what I mean?

I have joined the cycle buddy thread though should I suddenly feel the need to discuss pessaries or boob size. Do any of you feel like you have deja vu on those threads? Heard it all before and know the answer before I've finished reading the question ....... makes me feel old lol. The days of blissful (or scary) ignorance are so long ago I've forgotten how it felt! 

I'm boring myself again ..........


----------



## vw22

Nordikat, Jbox, Kitten... all saying what I think!


You know if we had been for a job interview this many times, or an exam, or spent time trying for world peace, we would probably have had a result by now. All this trying for something with NOTHING at the end is beyond logic. Its crazy and nothing compares to it that I have been through before.


I keep thinking if I could put all this energy into something else it would be amazing but its so hard to divert away from what you really want.


One weird but good thing is, after a 2 week wait where I am rollercoasting emotions and get so tense, and I have gotten over the initial negative result, I have a few days when I am so light and happy and relieved. Only because I feel like I can walk anywhere, lift anything and generally wizz around life without feeling guilty or trying to be careful. I have to say that is one nice thing that comes after a negative result!


Thats my thought for the day!


vx


----------



## Nordickat

vw - If I could put as much energy into being happy as I do into being miserable, you'd never get me down from cloud 9. And if I could put it into work ....... jeez, I'd be running the joint lol. And I agree about the happiness too. After that first glass of wine (the one you truly enjoy and not the one you should enjoy just because you can), I also feel the weight lifted and have a short period of taking on the whole world and booking dive holidays etc. 

Which reminds me, did I tell you how fantastic my trip was   . It really really was great. One of the reasons is that children and diving don't mix and we were surrounded by people how had no interest in our family life and just cared how many turtles we had seen. There was not a single inflatable dolphin in any pool. It was like being a normal person for a week and not the freak without kids. Nothing was missing from my life for a whole 7 days and the 2 most important things I thought about were 'beer or vino?' and which dive site to go to. And this bit might sound a bit odd, but you know that you are a perfect match with somebody when being underwater is not an issue and you can communicate as if on land. There is something rewarding/satisfying (I'm not sure what word I want) in having a conversation using just your hands and eyes ........ although we didn't ever confirm we understood each other so who knows what we really discussed


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Morning Ladies

Nordic glad you had a ball   you deserved it!

JBox it's like u were reading my mind... everything you said is so true... from thinking about the years of trying to thinking of helping other ladies with infertility. I too want to do something here with coping emotionally, because for us here it is not just about the emotions of the tx but it is the emotions of not being able to financially afford it or more even more than once. Unlike other countries and i suspect yours where the tx or drugs are heavily subsidized we get NOTHING!!!! and the sad thing is women here don't even want to talk about so you can't even lobby for a change  and that is frustrating  When I mentioned my intentions to my doctor he said i should have the baby first. He didn't think i could do it before that. Now i agree with him, every time i think about the struggle and sacrifices we have made i get so depressed. And when i don't think about i feel guilty, like i should be or it means i don't care. Does that sound stupid   ok no more about me. But JBox go for it, make a difference in someone's life!

Nordic and JBox good luck.. we'll be celebrating in a month, only positive thoughts!

For me was hoping to do FET in May since AF started, spoke to doc this morning and he is not sure if the unit will be doing any FETs soon. Says he will talk to the embryologist this morning and get back to me, so we know whether or not to start progynova and then do a scan on day 10 to see if lining is nice and thick. So feel a little down now, because with my luck it won't happen! Anyway i believe everything in life happens for a reason, altho i am kind of rethinking that theory  

Have a great day ladies...

Hi Kitten & vw...


----------



## Emziola

VW - Sorry to hear about your BFN last month....13th transfer, wow, you are brave   xx

Nordickat - Sounds like you had a lovely holiday.  Are you off somewhere else now, or do you live near mountains?  I've just found my next holiday destination if all goes belly up in Mexico -it's an adults only resort (DH said it's probably for swingers   ) - I do think I might become a bit selfish if I don't have children, not that I want to, I just can see myself not wanting to be around kids all the time if I don't have my own.  Fingers crossed for your next cycle .  I so hope you don't have to make the decision of giving up.  I'm afraid that is could be my next step too xx

Jet - Hope you get back to 'normal' soon   xx

JBox - You are an inspiration!  I don't know how you've done it so many times.  Best of luck for your next tx, you never know.  I'm having immune testing before my next cycle,  at least I can say I've given it my best shot then.  It will probably be my last.  Keep up the PMA   and enjoy the rest of your 24 hours! xx

Jamaica - Why might your clinic not be doing FET's any more?  I hope that is not the case and you can start again next month.  Chin up xx

AFM - Did a pg test this morning as I was due on Friday and AF normally shows like clock work so thought I might be pg, which I'm not.  I don't normally have a supply of pg tests and I don't test every month but lately I've found that my periods are out of sync.  I was a week later a few months ago and really thought I might be pg but I came on the day after I tested......could my body be changing?  This is something I'll bring up at my next consultation.  I'm not even disappointed just wish I'd come on now.

Hope you've all had fab Easter breaks, I've taken the week off so I'm chilling at home.

Emz xx


----------



## Winegum

Gosh it's been busy on here!  


I'm desperate to post, and join in the chatter but I'm just too tired to do it tonight (you know me, can't keep it brief so will need at least an hour to read back and write. Going through a really busy phase, but I will re-join you all soon.  


Just wanted to say Hi and send hugs in the meantime


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Emz - the unit is doing some expansion and the lab has moved temporarily, so i am not sure if that could be the reason. He didn't say and he hasn't called me back as yet. But i will call him before the week is out because i will have to start progynova soon. About your cycle i had asked my doctor about that because my period was also going askew and he told me that ivf does that sometimes, changes your cycle...


----------



## wobs

hi
Like Winegum I'd like to join in chatter, but never seem to have a mo....Have managed to read back a little bit, so know a bit of your stories but got as far as working out some are abroad & some in uk....oh dear!  My little brain   
Jobx/Nordickat  - so so agree with you!

Nordickat - your holiday sounds fab!

Huge good lucks to those trying this month        - like me - on the quiet it is easier I found - or could kid myself it was!!

bye for now
Wobs


----------



## Nordickat

Come back soon WG. I am patiently waiting for you to tell us how you got on With Dr Gorgy. I hope it was a producitve appt and I'll continue to patiently wait to hear what he said   

wobs - your job is clearly more exciting than mine as I find loads of time to be on here when I should be working   

 katxx


----------



## Emziola

Jamaica - thanks for the feedback, I thought that might be the case.  Hope you get some answers soon xx


----------



## kitten77

ooops i go on here at work too!!!!!  oops.

winegum and wobs - least your still with us - always nice for you to pop in even if not wring loads.

jamacia - hope he calls soon and the FET can go ahead.

nordickat - wow your hols sound perfect and just what you needed.  but like you i like going places without kids, and its not selfish at all, its self presevation, there is no need to be around kids all the time.  but nordickat, glad you had a fabo time and your biggest choice was the beer or wine!hahah, that made me laugh. if only life was ever that simple. 

emz - ivf can mess up your cycles, but if your worried then get checked out.  as for the pregnancy tests, its normal, i get excited if mine is only a few hours late!

as for me. nothing to report.  happy that most going for tx again, then wonder why its not even in my mind about when i should be going for it again.....hum..... but then money is always a problem. boo.


----------



## JBox

HI everyone

kat, have you settled back in after you hols? it did sound pretty damn perfect i must say. I am fully back here with a bump the day after i landed i had a consultation with my dr which brought me right back to earth very quickly. 

Winegum - good to hear from you again - where you been?

same goes for Wobs

Jamaica - blimey, i really hope you hear back from them today, if not, fancy coming over here you can stay at mine while you cycle, accomdation free, nice weather, nice spare bedroom? cant say much for the drs as they arent the nicest people in the world..

Kitten honey - are you thinking about going for another tx? its so hard to get head round heh? i am starting to think that this one might just be my last, so why havent i given up those smokes yet mmmmmmmh
( did buy some brazil nuts this morning tho)

Emz- have been there so many times, late with period, i hesitantly and gingerly go into the chemist thinking yeah right like i would ever be pregnant, by myself a test, come home half heartedly do it, then spend the five minutes dreaming, wishing, hoping praying, thinking omg what a miracle that would be, and then of course its negative, and guess what? af arrives with a vengance the next day... been there done that, got the tee shirt. Its so sh*tty isnt it? i am afraid that our bodies do get a bit messed up with the txs and yes, periods start behaving abnormally and annoyingly... hang in there darling, it will come and everything will be back on track. 

Can i jsut set the record straight - my post yesterday, going on and on about the clinic i would love to set up, really is just me speaking aloud, i am not an inspiration or a really overly positive person, or a do gooder, i really have just spent the past 3 years in a very lonely place, and without this site, i wouldnt have coped. i know in the uk there are a number of places that offer this and i just dont want any other woman to go thro the isolation that fertility brings when others have been there and can offer support and guidance. I hope that one day i will do it, but who knows, life will probably get in the way, specially when my triplets are born ( HA HA HA HA HA AHAHAHAHAHAHAH) laughing so much nearly fell offf my chair... i am not cycnical heh

anyway girlies, got my resutls from the famous dr g today. tomorrow is telephone consult... they dont look too bad- but then waht do i know. there are one or two that stick out - and the MTHFR is positive - what is that? does anyone know? ( cant help but call it mother Fker)!!!!

hope you are all having a nice day at work. i work three days a week and i am on my day off today, just went to have hair dyed and blowed dried, have done some shopping and now am going to make some food for hubs later, the picture of domesticisy heh?
love to all and sorry for the going ons... once i start i cant stop!
xxxxx


----------



## Jet

Hi Girls   
Hope you are doing okay, 
Jbox I do remember reading about mthfr result but cannot remember what it means I got a feeling there is a board on here regarding immue issues may be worth popping across to check up? 
Nordickat your holiday sounds great, enjoy !!
EM2 I know what you mean about periods going all over the shop just when you think and dream we have made it AF turns up I remember once being 6 days late getting very exicted only to rush home from the shops after buying a evil pg test when she turned up   , I have decided now not to put her in my diary because she allways arrives....
Kitten if only money was no issue I would have done alot more cycles it is so unfair, when you look at famous people saying about IVF knowing money was never a issue unlike us immortal ones...
As for me Hooray I have stopped bleeding at long last yah!! I was charging around at lunchtime thinking it is nice to get back to normal whatever that is?? I am thinking about booking a appointment with Dr Gorgy do we know how long the waiting list is? 
Hooray another long weekend coming up
enjoy girls
Jet


----------



## waikiki

Hi all,

Sorry I've been AWOL - had a couple of business trips followed by a lovely sunny holiday in Scotland.  Anyway, I will come back and do a proper post later, but I just wanted to pop on and let JBox know that I've got the MTHFR thingamijig (and I call it the same name!   ).  

Basically it's an inherited gene mutation which can cause sticky blood - do you know if you are heterozygous or homozygous? (it should say on your results from Dr G).  If you are heterozygous it means that you inherited the gene from one parent, if you are homozygous you got it from both sides.  About 40% of the population are heterozygous and I don't think that it would have any major impact on your tx going forward.  10% of the population are homozygous (like lucky ol' me!) and it means that Dr G will put you on low dose aspirin, high dose folic acid and clexane with all tx from now on. 

Hope that helps - let me know if you've got any questions!

waikiki


----------



## JBox

Waikiki thank u so much for ur reply. I am heterozygous and it does say that 40 percent of the popn have it. Does that mean no treatment? Ill go read the immunes thread AGAIN to try and understand AGAIN (yes I'm thick!!!)
Welcome back I hope u had a lovely break in scotland and some fun on ur biz trips?? Anywhere nice?


----------



## Winegum

I am obviously much more refined and well brought up than you lot      as I call it Mother-Father and start singing The Housemartins song "Bow Down" which starts "Mother, father, I think that I would rather, stay at home with you for another year"
      Still waiting for mine to come back.  Depending on the result, I will change my knick name for it   


Glad to see everyone is back with lots of chat    I'm only going to make you wait a little bit longer Kat


----------



## vw22

Loving the chat but too hectic to sit and write, will I promise soon!!! Love to all vx


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## wobs

Hey everyone....

Kat - no don't have an exciting job   ...but busy- infant teacher...Never seem to stop and when I get home I do more work, then eat and then fall asleep on the sofa, only to wake up very early the next day   Oh dear!!!!  Hence this early posting.  Been sitting at the pc an hour and about to start my planning for next week....Still the plan is I'll work today and then have a 3 day weekend - here's hoping.

Keep thinking about all the immunes tests etc....Have had the v v basic ones I think - natural killer cells But not done the chicago ones or anything.  Are they to do with implanation or making good eggs or embryos - or everything?!  Interesting re: the MTHFR

Jbox hope phone consult with Mr G ok

enjoy the long weekend those in the uk.  don't know if you other ladies get the long weekend too

Wobs


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## Nordickat

Wobs - sounds an exciting job to me   

We don't get any holiday this weekend   . Usually we are not properly part of any events here like the National days etc here, so today we are pretending to be very patriotic and care about the wedding. My corner of the office is very British so we have decided on a street party in the office ..... just for Commonwealth members (my PhD student is a Kiwi). Flags have just been printed out and I'm going out to buy red, white and blue cakes soon.

I can't really advise on the immunes tests as they are irrelevant for me. I'd have to go abroad for tests and tx and I just don't have the energy for that. My level 1 tests were fine but I take heparin and a low dose of prednisolone anyway (although this time I'm going to up my dose without telling them - just to 10 mg). I am taking a zillion supplements also in the hope os helping any egg issues, even jsut a tiny bit.

Have lovely long weekends all of you, 
Katxxx


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## Winegum

Hi everyone 

Finally read back, made my notes and ready for a mega post. I'm enjoying a rare day off today.  Hope you are all having a good day. I'm writing this in notepad and will copy and paste - couldn't risk losing my post, so apologies if there is some funny formatting as a result of that.

*vw22*: Sweetheart, I'm sorry that I hadn't really picked up on your FET. How are you doing in the aftermath and what is your plan now? I can relate to burning all your stuff. It was very brave of you, but a great idea to have photographed everything. I can't wait to do that one day. I vividly remember destroying all my physics GCSE school work knowing that I would never use it or need it again and it was liberating. I hope you are feeling a bit better about yourself now. I liked your comment about how good we would all be in business together! I'm self-employed and agree that we would all contribute a lot to any venture with the combination of skills we all clearly have. 

*jbt:* How are you lovely? I hope you are struggling a little less? I was going to say "not struggling" but you never don't struggle on this journey, it just sometimes feels harder and sometimes less hard.  How was your beach vacation - I hope you had a lovely time. I also hope you enjoyed your visit from your brother.

*NordicKat:* Great to have you back honey. Your description of your holiday was lovely and really reflected how escapist it was - that is truly what holidays are for, to just get completely away, in your head and heart and it sounds like you achieved that and more. I'm so glad you had such a fab time. It's always difficult coming back but I bet your puppy missed you lots and was pleased to see you back. I guess your garden is also pleased to see you back??  Your GP sounds just like mine - uninspiring and distant. I wish it was different but I think the fact that they are General Ps means that they just can't begin to grasp IF, both professionally and emotionally. A lot of what you say strikes a chord with me and the way you approach things is the same way I do, the same way a lot of us do I guess. Yes - everyone does have problems and difficult things in their lives to deal with and it is important to remember that on the outside we are all living someone else's dream and that appearances can be deceptive. Some people though, probably go through their life never having to learn that you can't always get what you want and that things don't always go to plan. Some people just don't know how lucky they are, but I wonder if they would say the same thing about us! Thank you for telling us about your upcoming cycle. I will say no more on the subject apart from I am thinking of you and dh and hoping that you will soon be announcing this thread first long awaited BFP.  Now, to what I was going to muse on....your fridge full of illegal drugs....no, no, it was the other things, the getting to the end of the race, the needing your life back, the difficulty in remembering life before TTC, trying to imagine what normal people worry about. I often think of this and find my mind going round and round. It's very difficult being in a position where you just don't know anymore. There are so many layers to peel back to get to the heart of it - I honestly don't know what I genuinely feel anymore because my feelings are clouded by so many things, most of all my self-protection mechanism, which is so advanced I sometimes can't even identify that. Anyway, I doubt I am making any sense now.  Stephen Fry once said that he couldn't imagine himself without bi-polar disorder and I guess I feel the same in a way - I can't imagine myself without this in my life, I can't imagine myself being free of it. I often wish I had come to the end of the race but I keep changing the finish line and it can be pushed back and back and back, as we have all experienced. Each tx gives us a tiny bit more information that lures us into going on. Sometimes I am desperate to stop it all and never speak of it again, but at other times I can't possibly give up and have nothing to show for it...yet. All of this leads me to wonder if I actually want a child anymore or if I just want to beat IF. 

*Waikiki:* Nice to see you even though you have been a bit absent like me. Looking forward to hearing more from you.

*Kitten:* Hi honey,how have you got on pursuing the urologist thing? What do you do work wise? You always sound so busy but also that you don't like it. I only have my phone at work and although i am the boss and should be able to do what I like, I have had to set an example and have banned phones (I work mainly with teenage girls) so I now only use mine "for business" or if have a break or if I can sneak down to the stock room for a sneaky FF catch up! If I could I would also be on FF a lot of the day!

*JBox:* Hello lovely, I have been following your progress on the FGA thread as well. I hope your phone consultation went well. Agate is amazing isn't she? I honestly don't know how she does it. Will you be able to start your tx as planned and squeeze all your immune tx into the time? You are exactly like me in knowing that tx is going to fail. How do we just know? I really want to be one of those ladies who believe that one day they will get a BFP but I just know that I wont be that lucky and that my manky old eggs and dry old uterus just isn't up to the job.  Having said all that of course, I do hope you surprise us! I'm glad you had such a good visit back to the UK. How was your BBQ for 16? Did dh do you proud? You have an impressive list of pg friends - I am always on high alert for pg announcements as I am sure we all are by now. Like you, I find it tough that everyone else is moving on and their lives are taking different shapes. I also know exactly what you mean about support. I think the worst bit for me was the initial bit. I wish a nurse had sat me down all those years ago when I was first referred to the infertility clinic at my local hosp and told me that this could all be over soon but it could also take you months and years and eat into your life and soul and no one will give you any emotional support etc etc. I also day dream about having triplets and being interviwed in the local press and telling anyone who will listen about IF and how awful it is and what we have been through and how the silent army of suffering women and couples need help and understanding and starting up a helpline. In my GPs surgery there is a poster for a support group for every health and social problem imaginable, except infertility. 

*Wobs*: Was it you asking about who everyone is? Nordickat is living and working in Norway longterm, Jbox is in Tel Aviv, vw22 is in Valencia and jamaicababytrying is in Jamaica, so we are quite an interational lot and are hoping to have some nice holiays and weekends away in the near future! I can quite understand you having a quiet tx. It's the approach I took last time. The only people I told were my FFs but I can see how even not doing that is attractive. So sorry you got nothing to transfer. What's the plan now?

*Jet*: I saw Dr G recently and I think you will be able to see him within a couple of weeks of phoning up. There isn't a waiting list as such. If you want him to do your Chicago bloods, go on a Mon Tue or Wed am and you can get them done on the same day as your appointment with him. The lab only ship to Chicago on Mon Tue and Wed so if you see him on a Thur or Fri you'll have to go back to get your bloods done. Not a big deal if you live in London, but worth knowing, as I live miles away! I notice you cycled at the ARGC - will you go there again? What did you think of it?

*Emizola*: I hope you find some answers from your immune testing. I am also going down that route atm.

*AFM*: 2 weeks ago I had an apt with Dr Gorgy in London and had a lot of blood taken - about 13 vials.  DH also had to do a SA for chlamydia and looked at me in horror when he realised. I was censored word myself - he is a "morning person" and hadn't been able to resist me about 3 hours previoulsy (before we left our hotel) and was worried he wouldn't be able to perform. Thankfully he did!  I was a bit like "welcome to my world" - he is not really used to being prodded and poked that much! Anyway, the results are trickling in and so far it looks like at least one of my results is more elevated than it should be, so that might be part of the reason we haven't conceived yet. I have my FU with Dr G on 9th May, when I am also going to the Lister for an open evening. I have reluctantly decided that I should address my highish blood sugar by going low gi/low carb. It's so hard! I need toast, and it's so difficult to resist the mini eggs from last weekend but I might just have to chuck them away. I'm thinking of doing the south beach diet. Does anyone have any words of wisdom re: diet? When I am craving a piece of toast, I think that it won't work and I should just eat what I want! I don't know what to do, I just know that I hate focussing on food to this degree and making even more longterm changes to my life. It's one thing feeling left behind to your fertile friends and family, but now I am very struck by how I am getting left behind by other infertile women, and that's why I love this thread. I am very happy for all my dear FFs who have succeeded but I feel much more at home where it is ok to say that I have trouble believing it will ever work for me, and where it is ok not to be very positive and hopeful. I also love that this is not a tx thread. Some more ramblings.......I sometimes wonder that if I am lucky enough to get pg, will all be worth it? I find myself not envying couples who have kids and have to deal with all the tough bits of parenting, I just like the playing when in a good mood and bathtime. I find myself wanting to get away from couples with kids! I find myself glazing over when couples talk about their kids. I am feeling a bit of pressure now too. Dh is very hopeful that this immune testing will be the magic ingredient needed...you can imagine what I think. He wants it so much, more than me I think, or let's put it this way, he will be less satisfied with a life without kids than me. Anyway, that's it from me. I hope to keep up with this thread a bit more regularly in future.

Big love to all

Winegum xxx


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## Nordickat

blimey winegum! My battery is almost dead from just reading all that


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## Winegum

Told you to expect a mega post


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## JBox

Winegum

How lovely to have u back! And blimey what a post! I am so impressed at how u managed to address everyone and in such detail. I am so rubbish at the personals - why I love this thread so much - not too many people (well how many really have gone thru so many txs like us and still at square one) and well, like u said its not about treatment per se and we don't focus on every twinge.

Having just said all that can I just tell u a bit bout my results with DR G coz I know ur doing it all at the mo. Basically and in short I have slightly elevated cd3 positive for MTHFR (heteroz)but nothing major to report about. He suggested clexane prodnisone intralipids and LIT. Armed with that info I went to an immune specialist here who saw my results and pooh pooed his plan and said he really didn't see anything that jumped out at him that rendered such major treatments. Also there is nowhere here that does intralipids or LIT injections anyway. So there we were- my dh who is v sceptical about all of this anyway- faced with yet another professional giving us yet another opinion. By way of compromise we have decided to take the pred and clexane and additional progesterone ( not the gestane which app is very painful) but all of this is coz I basically told this specialist that after paying and doing these results I have to listen to his advice and do what I can *fter so many cycles. This consultant knows everything about every paper written every research done and even quoted from dr beers book,and specialises in immune therapy, still wasn't convinced that my results needed to be treated with all the meds dr g prescribed. He said and I quote " if someone sneezes twice they don't necc have pneuomonia that's not to say that pneumoniaa doesn't exist and or they aren't susceptable to it , but 2 sneezes doesn't waurantee tx for it" mmmmh!too many opinions heh? My dh isn't for it but I am going to do it anyway and tell my fertility consultant when I see him on weds for my scan. What do u think bout it?I'm all confused now and with my dh thinking that dr g is a bit of a quack I now have lost all confidence.

On a totally different note can I just say how fab the wedding was. I am no big royalist but I loved every minute of it. They look so in love. I think being abroad and watching it made me so patriotic.

My fingers ache from writing on my phone. Love to everyone here

and winegum I loved ur loooooooooong post 
X


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## Mrs Rock

Oh girls!  Please please please can I join you?  Have just had a quick read of the first 2 and the last 2 pages to see what it's all about and feel like I belong here!

Kitten hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii  we were definitely on a thread before - was it Inbetweenies?  or a cycle buddies?  

I have stopped joining cycle buddies as they seem to be more for ladies who are just starting out on thier journey and I feel like a sodding VETERAN.  I feel like I should be getting my tx long service medal soon.  Or what about an alternative, the inaugural 'Tx Hoop-Jumping Award', I have jumped through so blimmin many I have springs growing out of my feet by now   

Winegum when you wrote that you feel like you are getting left behind by other infertile women - totally relate to that.  Sometimes I skim down the names of posters and I used to recognise lots but now I hardly recognise anyone because they have all moved onto the baby threads! I also worry that I can't imagine my life without this dominating.  We started TTC as soon as we got married so I worry that our whole marriage has been about this, so far.  I also can't stand the PMA Police.  I think after a few negatives you are entitled to be realistic, cos let's face it, all tx is always less likely to work than to fail, and recognising that is just self protection, you can't keep on setting yourself up for a big fall, now can you?  But sometimes it feels like it's not ok to say that.

Nordickat we're both on snowdrops support aren't we? And Wineguma dn JBox we're on FGA.  Ooooh this feels like a chin wag with people who understand!


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## JBox

Welcome mrs rock to this thread.xx


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## jamaicababytrying

Winegum you're amazing! thanks for the concern, still struggling my dear, more now than ever... I have a friend just starting her firsst ivf cycle so i am her "shoulder" I truly hope it happens for her she is in her 40s and doesn't have anything wrong with her per se but age! Also i don't wish the multiple treatments on anyone...  had a great vacation with hubby and my brother's visit was really nice we had a ball that weekend!

still no word on FET doc still hasn't gotten the go ahead and time is drawing near because day 10 is Tuesday which means scan and starting progynova!!!! I just feel it won't be happening, so one more disappointment 

I think I have asked before but do any of you ladies have step children to deal with? If so how do you manage... mine come for the summer in a few weeks and everytime he comes i feel worse about myself and this whole infertility issue. Don't want to sound like an awful person, i know my husband needs to bond with his son but i just feel like !([email protected]& when he is around.   Please don't think i am a bad person for expressing my feelings.

Mrs Rock we're on the Snowdrop thread together... 

JBox with my first cycle i took asprin & clexane, my doc says when we do the FET he will add heparin to the asprin not loving it.

So who watched the royal wedding, came on at 4a.m. here didn't wake up but i know a lot of people that did. I watched the delay broadcast... beautiful.. have a great weekend ladies


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## Winegum

*JBox:* Yes, I have to admit, I loved the wedding too. It's the sort of stuff that we Brits do best, that and putting ourselves down, so it's good to have an occasion to be proud  Re: Dr G, what does Agate say?  Seriously though, you should ask her. From what I can tell from the thread, Dr G is a belt and braces type. I think he really wants you to get pg above all else - I genuinely believe that. Using the pneumonia analogy, 2 sneezes almost definitely means you don't have pneumonia, but it_ might_ possibly mean that you have it ergo LIT and ILS _might _just be what makes you pg. Dr G is quite aggressive in his approach to medication and I guess he assumes that if you are at the stage of going to see him, you are going to seriously go for it. You do sound very serious about getting pg again and if you can afford it you are not going to do yourself any harm. It's very difficult because it's ultimately your decision and I can see how your sceptical dh and specialist not having any of it will influence you. I guess you have to think about how you are going to feel if you don't do it and have another BFN versus if you do do it and have another BFN. Tough one. Have another good look at your results with Dr Beers book and see if that helps your decision. My CD 3 are also very slightly elevated. Good luck! Top marks for the phone post - its hard isn't it!

*Mrs Rock: *You don't have to beg!!! Of course you can join us, you only need to be a tx veteran tick, and to have a sense of humour tick and to understand tick! Welcome to the fold, and yes I recognise you from the FGA thread. There's no PMA police on here, don't worry 

*jbt: *sorry to hear you are still struggling honey. No experience with step children but I do understand, or I can imagine how difficult it is


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## wobs

Hey ladies
Wow this is a busy board.

WG - wow mega post as everyone has said.  Ta for the international status info   .  I'm with you on the - not sure if I want a child or just want to beat IF/want to get away from couples with kids.  Is it a coping strategy or is it just a sign that if/when the time comes I'll be ready to accept I don't want any more treatment.  Who knows Anyway its too early in the morning to get all deep and meaningful   
Sorry don't have any words of wisdom on diet tips but if you find any let me know  

Kat - hope street party was good sounds fun.
I ended up watching most of the wedding on iplayer whilst attempting to do my planning/school work.  Unfortunately this means that I still have lots to do as i ended up being v distracted - but enjoyed watching it.

Jbt - holiday sounds nice.  Sorry have no words of wisdom re: stepson, but i can imagine it's hard.   

Jbox - immunes...it's such a tricky one.  I've only had some of the level 1 tests done....but beginning to wonder whether i should see Mr G or get more tests done.  But I read somewhere once you should only have the tests if you would actually do the treatment - very unsure about IVIG - but feel now need to tick all the boxes, so probably would have them checked.  Anyway hope you get it sorted.

VW22 - hope you're doing ok   

Jet - did you go to ARGC?  We are thinking of going for an intial consultation.  Trouble is as a teacher treatment would be a nightmare (don't think we'd fit in the summer hols now?)....You say you are also thinking of seeing Mr G - does he do more testing than ARGC? 

Hi Mrs Rock, Waikiki, EMZ & Kitten
Hope you all enjoy the rest of the long weekend (those that get it   )

Wobs


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## Mrs Rock

Oh thank you for the welcome ladies   

JBox - I have had every single test Dr G offers.  I had already decided though that I wouldn't touch Humira with a bargepole and I'm not convinced about IVIG either, especially because it costs almost 3 times what ILs costs and ILs seemes to be effective, going by the one study which has been publicised.  He didn't prescribe me Humira thankfully but he did want meto alternate ILs and IVIG but I only had ILS.  You're entitled to decide what you feel comfortable with, you don't have to accept everything he prescribes.  He also prescribed me gestone when I was pregnant and I didn't take it, I stuck to cyclogest pessaries, because a large imbalance between my oestrogen and progesterone levels can make my pain worse according to my pain clinic.  (I do know, btw, that not taking these meds didn't have anything to do with my mc - it was most likely chromosomal).  

I amazed myself by enjoying watching bits of the wedding.  I spent all week grumbling about the cost of the security and policing to the public purse at a time when public services are being cut, plus the inconvenience of all the barriers and the idiots camping out, as I work bang smack in the middle of it all and it was a total pain all last week.  I saw a friend's ** status that said "We're having a wedding.  You're not invited.  You're paying.  Now run along and organise a street party in our honour, there's a good peasant" and I thought - yeah !!    But on the day I really enjoyed seeing the dress, the beautiful cars, horses and coaches, the hats (Princess Bea loked like she had some kind of art installation on her head, no?) and the pageantry generally.  I agree I think the UK do state occasions beautifully and I can admire that even if I am not a monarchist


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## Jet

Hi Girls  
We watched the Wedding yesterday it was lovely, Catherine was gorgeous, thank goddness the weather stayied dry for the happy couple x
Wobs and Winegum yes we did cycle twice at ARGC they were excellent we were lucky enough to see Mr T and Mr G back in 2004, yes ARCG is a demanding clinic in as much they want you to go most days and towards the end twice a day it is exhausting, infact it was Dr G was the one who told us we stand a better chance by using donor eggs, which I do appreciate as they could have kept giving us false hope... but after 3 cycles of donor eggs I do wonder if there is another underline issue. We have done Dr Beer's bloods testing which came back they can be tweaked but we still having repeat failures??
Welcome Mrs Rock  
jbt I am sorry I do not have any experience with step children hope you are okay  
Hope you all have a great weekend
take care
Jet


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## JBox

JBT I have a 15 year old step daughter. She used to visit every other weekend and every tueday spend every holiday with us and was a huge part of my early married life which was tough in itslef but, just about a year ago she came for a weekend and never left! Her mother has bi polar and is not well at all up and down in and out of hospital and on top of that a nasty piece of work who doesn't (maybe can't?) care for her daughter (altho she seems able to care very much about any money owing to her!) It has been a very difficult transition for me and it  also happenend at the same time as my first IVF cycle which was obviously a BFN! I have to admit tho that however difficult it was having dhs child around especially when we r trying to have a baby and it wasn't working, she did bring a breath of fresh air into a very tense atmosphere. And being with us full time now (she never sees her mum now) is a lot easier than when she used to come and go. That was always difficult as it seemed to rock the boat a bit. So, we are no further towards having another baby of our own but I have gained a teenager along with her moods and boyfriends making me feel even older and less closer to having a child!!!! I get what ur feeling its so difficult and very few people can really understand the mixed emotions a step child can bring to a relationship. I am now much more settled into it and have accepted our situation but its taken a very long time - I suppose its the same acceptance that will eventually or is slowly appearing now on my secondary infertility journey.
If u can try and embrace their visit in some way rather than dread it, it will make it much easier for you. Easier said than done I know! I don't know if this can help u but it really helped me for a time. Is another site and forum called www.childlessstepmums.co.uk its informative and the women there really helped me thru some difficult times as u lot here do!
Good luck xx


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## JBox

And sorry for typos - am on phone again!


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## Winegum

*Mrs Rock:* a quickie, why wouldn't you touch Humira with a barge pole?


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## Nordickat

HI MrsRock - I was briefly a snowdrop but I never really got into the thread properly. I was there for your loss though   . I´m glad you have found us here.


Winegum - re diet, this time of year is perfect for trying to go lower gi/low carb. 
Breakfast: low gi fruit salad (apples, pear, kiwi, grapes, strawberries etc, although I cheat and have a banana too which is medium gi), with natural yogurt and ground nuts/seeds on top is lush in summer. I always dilute my fruit juice in water too.
Lunch: Salad with some beans in it if you need to fill up, with eggs, chicken, tuna, shrimp or smoked salmon/trout etc.
Dinner: This is the easiest meal I think really. Fill up with beans/pulses if you are hungry, the protein part is easy enough. If you are having something with rice try grating and blanching cauliflower instead. I know it sounds gross but try it. You can grate and fry too for the fried rice effect
Snacks: oat cakes with seed butter (as in peanut better with seeds instead), apple with peanut butter (the stuff that is 100% peanuts), oatcakes with homemade humous, a glass of milk can tide you over too if you are a bit peckish, and I´m sue the good in a banana outweighs the bad.


Hi to everyone else too. I don´t have the deep and meaningful chat in me tonight. I sacked my shrink last week, she told my Dr (bit of a call my bluff situation .... I lost!) and now I have to go for an appt tomorrow with him for another mental health assessment (and telling off no doubt). I really don´t like him when he tries to counsel me and get into my head so I´m dreading it. I´m currently practicing my ´balanced normal person´act   . I´ll be back properly tomorrow after my wrist slapping.


 to everyone, Katxxx


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## vw22

Hi everyone,


Kat... you really don't sound like you need such a shrink, but I guess its hard for me to tell really! But best of luck tomorrow.


JBOX and JBT... I really admire anyone that goes through all this crazy stuff and has to deal with step-stuff too. You both sound such gorgoeus people that those steppy-kids are so lucky to have you. i can't imagine the extra stress it must put on the relationship, but you both sound like you are handling it in your own way.


Winegum... I feel what you do.... and worse I wonder if I would make a decent mum anyway. I think its probably self-protection though, by imagining that, it helps us not to be disappointed when those bfn happen again and again. Good to hear your Dr G stuff is moving forward.


Everyone, new and old (!), its been great to read all your posts and try and keep up. This is such a 'letting of steam' thread! 


I don't really know if this is the place to write this but we are going to try surrogacy. Thats a whole new ball game I know but although we don't want to give up trying with me, as time ticks on, we want to start our family somehow. Adoption sadly isn't an option. Anyway we are going to see people next week, so I may be offline for a while. This is so huge I don't even know what I think!!!


Anyway if anyones interested in me reporting back I will, if not no problem I will find another thread for that info and keep in touch here for other stuff. 


Never thought this would be my life!!! vx


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## Winegum

Don't go anywhere vw22 - this is an anything goes thread isn't it ladies? As far as I'm concerned surrogacy is just another tx.  Good luck honey xxx


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## JBox

VW - dont you dare go anywhere... this is your place now. we want to be part of your furture plans, and are here to support and be with you all the way....I know what you mean about life not turning out the way you expected, i never imagined in a million years i would be where i am at,  - life can be cruel but its the attitude we take on to face it, that makes the difference. 

i think the route you are taking now sounds great and wish you every single bit of luck there is to wish you. I really hope that you will reach your dream. 

STAY HERE
DO NOT GO
xxxx


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## Nordickat

vw - this is just the place to share such news, and your rambling thoughts about it. Our thread is about fulfilling our dreams, whatever those dreams turn out to be and however we go about fulfilling them. Lots and lots of luck for the early stages and I'm looking forward to hearing about it.

 Katxxx

PS. My shrink isn't mean and she has an obligation to snitch on me if I break the rules


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## JBox

Kat, 

Are you doing ok?

you sound a bit down and out at the moment, and all these appointments you are having, and drs playing off councellors and vice versa dont sound like they are helping you....

wanna chat?


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## kitten77

hi everyone.

first off i have to say...VW dont you dare go!!!!   i know i for one would love to have updates on your journey, as not only will be nice to know whats involved (next tx will be my 7th so have to keep all other options open!), but would like to be here with you though it, and like already said this thread is a 'talk about everything and anything' thread. so do not go, will send the boys round otherwise to bring you back....! 

kat, hope your docs appointment goes well, and i have to ditto to say you dont sound like you need a shrink. hope all goes ok and always here if you need to chat.

only a quick one from me today.  shouted at my sil last nite as she was moaning about how there were in the park with her kids and not invited out on the town for drinks with everyone. i said i would give my right arm to not be invited because i have kids and can she not see how lucky she is - in one ear and out the other.... ho hum. 

enjoy your bank holiday monday, im off to plant my plants......


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## vw22

Wheyhey, I will definately stay!!!!!! Thank you everyone for making me feel so normal!!!


No idea where I was going to go anyway...this is the best thread for me!!!


I think some of you are on a bank holiday so enjoy and Kat, 'breaking the rules'?, I have to say I am intrigued... but have a good meeting!


vx


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## Nordickat

I've just read back over the last few days and some of us do seem to have the same thoughts. I very often wonder if I still have the same need for a child in my life as I did when it all seemed so easy, or whether I need it to prove I'm not a failure. That in turn brings the old 'I'd be such a bad mum anyway' thoughts and 'maybe its better for the potential child if I can't conceive anyway' blah  blah blah, most of you haev been there too I guess.

I can't imagine not having this stress in my life and I'm not sure if the reason I keep trying is because I'm so desperate to be a mother, frightened of a childless future, frightened of accepting I have failed or just frightened of how I will fill the huge hole that will be left in my life when tx is nolonger there. Tx is an odd hobby to have isn't it?  I also have the same pressure as you do Winegum in that DH thinks donor sperm is the answer and how can we fail. He is desperate for it to work, but not to be a dad, but because he thinks he will get his wife back ....... I'm not sure that after so long, its as simple as that. 

I'm not really that much of a pro on the immunes stuff. As wobs said, if you are not going to have immunes tx, then maybe its best not to have the tests and then worry about it, hence no tests for me. I do think though that sometimes the consultants throw absolutely everything at your tx in the hope that one of the things works, and maybe there is a happy medium. I don't think they are quacks though. They want success as much as we do, albeit probably for different reasons, and are going to do all they can to get your BFP. Googlescholar might be a good place to get some proper info on Humira, LIT, ILS, etc. I understand the theory behind it all but I've never actually looked to see how often the treatments actually work. I guess we just have to do what sits right with us and know we have no regrets at the end. I was, and still am, a hidden C skeptic. I had the test though just because its easy to deal with and allows me to cross off one of the 'whats ifs'.

No stepchildren advice from me either. I imagine its hard though and I think you just have to find a way to see it as a positive thing. You might not be biologically connected, but you do have the opportunity to help round your step children into wonderful people. You can influence their lives in positive ways and hopefully one day they can do the same for you.

I'm OK thanks JBox. I bring it all on myself really because I refuse to go under proper care which means that if I fail to attend session with the psychologist she has a duty to report it to the Dr. I know the rules, but occasionally it is all too much and I irrationally think I can walk away and it will all just go away. I never does. The root cause of my depression isn't IF, but IF does make it a million times worse, and also impossible to deal with the cause. I can't get better without medication and I refuse medication until my tx journey is over. I didn't get too much of a telling off today really, I had to promise to make a new psychologist appt, I have been given a sicknote (that I thought was 20% sick, but its actually 80% sick   ) which is flexible and I can work 100% if I want although I have had to promise not to work 100% and I have to go and see the Dr in 4 weeks to confirm I am sticking to the rules. I just hate it all, and it compounds all those feelings of failure. Chatting to you would be wonderful but this is a public forum and also I'm a rubbish chatter and a very slick subject changer  -  thank you though.

It seems I was the only one who didn't get into the wedding then. I tried really really hard though but it was just so boring. I did become more patriotic than usual though but that was due to my jealousy of the 4 days off, but the office street party fell a bit flat when I failed to get cake and then a load of us had to go to a meeting all afternoon. My flag is still up on my desk though unless some norwegian has replaced it with one of theirs.

We'd miss you if you left us vw so I'm glad you are staying and I'm excited about where this new path might take you.

Well, I had better think about work I guess, 
 to all, Katxxx

PS. Winegum - all mini egg donations gratefully received. In fact I see it as my duty to take them off your hands


----------



## Jet

Hi girls   
Vw22 glad you are staying it would be great to hear about your new journey, I would be interested in hearing how you get on.. are you based in the UK? are you going to use an agency? good luck   
Nordickat Iam sorry your shrink is not being very helpful hope things improve very soon.
Kitten I do not think people that have children realise how lucky they are, the amount of times mums have said to me you can have my if you like? I allways feel embarrassed as what can you say to that? I just giggle and try move on. 
I remember at work someone brought their baby in everyone was coo ing the girl tried to give her to me I moved away afterwards she commented on why did I not want to hold the baby I came out with a excuse I had a cold did not want to pass it on, but really the barriers were up and I did not want to feel maternal when I am going through this pain unless you are in this boat they just do not get it   I hate it when they are all discussing their kids and you feel like a spare part....
I watched "The Hotel" last night there was a couple that had 7 kids all girls and another on the way, wow  
Have a great day
Jet


----------



## Han72

Hi all 

Do you know I began volunteering here to cover Beachgirl while she's on hiatus several weeks ago but I have absolutely no recollection of whether I ever introduced myself  

Anyway just wanted to say howdy and boy do I get it (unfortunately  )

Nordik - good luck with the gp chick, hope he doesn't give you too much grief  What did the shrink do to make you sack her (if that's not an indiscreet question)

Winegum - wow you go girl with the persos   not even going to attempt to match that! Re the diet, there's a book called the insulin resistant diet shows good ways of grouping foods to stop your blood sugar from going doolally

http://www.amazon.com/Insulin-Resistance-Diet-Bodys-Fat-Making-Machine/dp/0809224275

VW - I'd be really interested in hearing about your surrogacy journey, if you're willing to share with us of course! Good luck hon     Also I can put you in touch with one of the girls on the multiple cycles board whose had success with it in South Africa if you'd like?

jbt - woooo Jamaiiicaaaaaa    can we all come and stay at yours please?! Whereabouts on the island are you? My Dad's from Clarendon and my mum's from Kingston 

Wobs - the NK cells is the mega expensive test that usually gets sent off to Chicago... maybe you had something else done?

JBox - if you ever open that clinic, I'm in hon! Where do you live btw? I'm in France so can sympathise with loads of free tx but nothing to show for it :/ I can also sympathise with having been advised of the necessity of intralipids/humira but living in a country where neither is available. FYI I went to see an immune specialist in Paris who did a uterine biopsy, said NK cells were "normal" but said my womb lining was too thin. Her recommendation was 6 months of 500mg Vit E and a drug called pentoxifylline. I looked both up on the net and found that
1 - a good source of vit E is soybean oil, which also happens to be one of the main constituents of intralipids
2 - pentoxywotsit  ) is an Anti-TNF alpha drug, just like humira.... It's also supposed to be good for endo and fibroids, which I have

I have to say I'm not a fan of Humira as my understanding is it knocks out ALL cytokines when we actually need some of them for a pregnancy to progress. And the LIT thing makes me feel a bit uncomfortable in that my understanding is the only people who have +ive LAD are those who've already been preg or those who've had a blood transfusion. So if +ive LAD was necessary for pregnancy then how does anyone who hasn't had a blood transfusion get preg in the first place As a result, I get the feeling that negative LAD is a _symptom _of infertility, not a cause. But that's just me blethering, I'm not a doc and I haven't done all the research that Gorgy or Taranissi has done, it's just my take on it

Anyhoo, speaking of blethering, I think I've gone on for long enough! Apologies to everyone I haven't mentioned personally but I hope you're all well and that those of you who're are in the Uk are enjoying the bank holiday!

xxx

Yep, definitely blethered too long, 4 replies while I was faffing!   

Love to all!

xxx


----------



## JBox

Hey Han, 
just a quickie, do you take vitamin e then? do you recommend i take it if cant have the intralipids as per dr g's recommendation coz of not being available here?

thanks
hi everyone else  ( sorry always wanted to use that , never found a reason to!)


----------



## Han72

Well honey, I'm not a doc so I can't really recommend anything and 500mg daily is a really high dose. All I can tell you is that my doc recommended it for my repeated implantation failure and my own research seems to indicate that it could be the reason why intralipids work....  

I should point out that a high dose of vit E has a blood thinning effect so watch out if you're already on clexane or anything of that nature.

I haven't started taking it yet cos I only got the results of the uNK biopsy the other day. Just to clarify, she basically had me do a dummy natural cycle, supplementing with E2 and then adding progesterone pessaries from day 14. The biopsy done on day 21 showed, as I say normal uNK activity but an unusually thin lining (which is weird given how heavy and painful my AF's are!) 

As a result, she recommended I take the Vit E and the pentything for 6 months with a check up in 3 months to see what effect it's had on my womb lining.  I think we should be able to cycle by Sept/Oct despite her 6 month thing... they do like to err on the side of caution here  

xxx

PS ****


----------



## Mrs Rock

Hello Han    or should that be   ?  maybe we should adopt this    (or the naked butt, I can't seem to find him anywhere) as the tx veteran way of saying hi, a bit like the masons have a funny handshake   

Anyhoo Winegum sorry for delayed repy about Humira.  I have had SIL and her boyf staying for the weekend and it was interfering with my quaility time on FF   .  Simply because the potential side effects frighten me, and I read the HFEA's statement on Humira and it put me right off.  I have read on here that it can cause a flare in immune response which is the opposite of what you intend, and I am the world's least patient person and any extra waiting between txs waiting for the flare to die down would be excruciating to me.  Also it can cause joint pain which I have had enough of to last me a lifetime (see signature!).  I would much prefer to rely on intralipids which don't seem to have any side effects, unless you happen to be allergic.  But I have not  had an immune re-test yet so I actually don't know how effective ILs have been for me.  I just know Humira is not for me.  But obv that's only my personal view and plenty of ladies on here use it successfully without any significant ill effects.

VW, why would you go?  Don't go!  I don't think any of us thought this would be our lives but here we are.  You've done the txs given it your best shot, if you're moving to the next option for you then I personally wish you, the best and want to support you   

Kitten, Jet, I yelled at my Mum on the phone a few weeks back just after my mc, she was telling me all about how my cousin's partner sadly has told him to leave and now seems to take advantage of him babysitting their 2 year old son, not coming back until small hours of the morning or next day and dropping the kid with him with no notice etc.  Now rationally I know that's not really on and everything, but emotionally I just felt as though I had no time for my cousin feeling taken advantage of and I ranted at my Mum to stop telling me about all this because as far as I was concerned my cousin is lucky.  My Mum said "Oh well I suppose you would relate everything back to yourself that way wouldn't you".  How I didn't slam down the phone I don't know...and she wonders why I live 200 miles away lol.

Kat hello again, and I do remember your kind comment on Snowdrops thank you.  You sound to be having a tough time.  Can you do 20% of your work?  Will you go into work or work at home?  I hope you start feeling better.  I understand your reluctance about medication as my pain medication increases the risk of neural tube defect but I cannot do without it so I just have to hope hope hope.  My sister suffers from depression but she is in a good patch now. She was on fluoxetine when she got pregnant and came off it as soon as she knew, my nephew was unaffected I'm happy to say.  

And talking about the wedding - DH tells me that last night at about 2am I shocked him awake by fighting off the duvet with clenched fists, sitting bolt upright in bed and looking about fearfully shouting "Catherine!".  I think reading about the cost of the wedding must've traumatised me (£7 million on the policing, if you don't mind!), or maybe my subconscious is worried for that poor girl and trying to save her


----------



## waikiki

Hello ladies,

Well I did promise that I'd be back and I'm very aware that I owe you all a Winegumesque mega post, so get yourselves a cup of tea and a comfy seat...

....And I shall begin...

VW - I'm so glad that the other ladies have persuaded you to stay, as this is where you belong!   I know that we all want to support you on the next stage of your journey and I wish you the best of luck with surrogacy.      I know that it was a little while ago that you posted about burning all of your tx paperwork, but I have to bring it up again to say that it touched me very deeply when I read your words.  I have photos of most of my embryos and they are tucked away in a drawer with all of the relevant dates (and names) written on the back.  I always thought that they were one of my most precious possessions, as they are the closest thing that I may ever have to a baby...and now that I am pursuing DE treatment, they are the evidence that once, if only for a few days, there existed something physical from the love that DH and I have.  If the house was burning down I thought that these would be among the few possessions that I would be desperate to save, but after reading your post, I realised that whenever I do look at those photos, they make me sad....not just sad in fact, but grief-stricken and I can't see how that will ever change, even if I do go on to have children.  So you have made me think that maybe one day I should get rid of those photos, as it might make me feel freer....I haven't been brave enough to do it yet, but thank you for at least making me think about this.   

JBT - you also gave me something to think about, when you mentioned the friend that you are supporting through IVF.  One of my best friends ended up having her first IVF cycle around the same time as my last (7th) tx.  Even though statistically I had a much better chance of it working (I'm younger using DE, she is older using her OE with high FSH) of course we know that statistics mean nothing and she got a BFP and I got a BFN.  As much as I had supported running up to OTD as soon as I heard she was pg I just haven't been able to face her.  She is about 10 weeks now and I know I can't realistically avoid her for much longer, so I will take a leaf out your book and be strong in wishing her well.

Kitten - I too am surrounded by friends and family who don't realise how bloomin lucky they are to have their children, but despite their frequent moaning, I hardly ever have the courage to tell them straight to shut up and think themselves lucky.  So well done to you, you clearly have more bottle than I do!!  

Jet - Don't you just hate being the freaky 'non-maternal' one who doesn't want to cluck all over the baby?!...Not that I'm calling you that, it's just that's how I always feel.  And do you know what, I blame the IVF relaxation CD that I bought!  In it there is a section where you have to imagine a picture of you and your baby and make it as realistic as you can, to really believe that it will come true.  I imagined every detail, down to my baby's smell and the feel of its tiny little hands in mine - so now I can't actually hold a baby because it is exactly like the scene that I imagined apart from it's somebody else's baby.  

JBox - sorry I didn't come back to you on the MTHFR.  Tbh I'm not sure what, if anything, Dr G will prescribe for heterozygous MTHFR.  I seem to remember that it may just be extra folic acid, but I'm not sure.  By the way, here are some more for you...     and a few of these    because they are my favourite and I only ever get to use them at Halloween.  

Kat - I'm sorry that you're having a tough time at the moment and I hope that your Dr understands that you need to just have a breather every now and again.    What you and some of the others have said about analysing my need for a child is very familiar to me too.  Early on in tx I honestly thought that I wouldn't want to live a life without children and even though I am still desperate to get pg, I do sometimes find myself thinking about all of the things DH and I will be able to do if we don't have kids. I have days when I feel that I am 'past' wanting kids - I tried to explain this to DH the other day and told him that it's like being really hungry, when you think that you absolutely have to eat, but then sometimes if you can't eat there and then, within an hour or so you find yourself thinking "was I really hungry earlier?".  The fact is I wanted to have kids 6 years ago when we started ttc - as I get older each year, I find myself thinking less that I want a baby and more that I want to have a 5 or 6 year old child.  Within the next few years if I am not pg, I think that I will feel that my time for a baby has passed.  As it is I was one of the first of my friends to get married, but they all have kids now and even if I got pg now my children would be too young to play with my friend's kids.  Having said that, I still hate the fact that all of my friends have something that I do not, and that spurs me on to try harder - I'm ashamed to say that, as it seems the wrong reason to keep trying.

Mrs Rock, Han72, Wobs  

AFM - Went to see Dr G again last week to get new immunes testing done as it is 2 years since I saw him last.  Also went back to CRM for my follow up and found out that my donor had a miscarriage at 9 weeks.  I feel dreadfully sorry for her, but it makes me feel slightly better about the fact that our tx didn't work.  The Dr suggested we try an endometrial scratch ahead of my next tx, to see if it will help implantation - has anyone had one of these?

Right, that's quite enough of my rambling - I promise to try and do shorter, more frequent posts in future!

waikiki


----------



## Han72

Mrs Rock said:


> And talking about the wedding - DH tells me that last night at about 2am I shocked him awake by fighting off the duvet with clenched fists, sitting bolt upright in bed and looking about fearfully shouting "Catherine!". I think reading about the cost of the wedding must've traumatised me (£7 million on the policing, if you don't mind!), or maybe my subconscious is worried for that poor girl and trying to save her


    

you get the naked bum by typing @rse but with an a instead of the @ sign 

xxx

Whoops, hi Waikiki  the endo scratch is another thing that my Parisian immuney doc has suggested.... I don't know anyone who's had it though 

xxx

PS I forgot to mention the other reason why I don't like Humira - it's frickin' expensive!!!

xxx


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## Mrs Rock

**** **** **** **** ****!


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## Han72




----------



## Mrs Rock

That made me think of the old priest in 'Father Ted', you know, Father Jack, "Drink!", "Feck!", "Girls!", "****!" 
Me?  juvenile sense of humour?  Surely some mistake


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## Han72

The thought never crossed my mind   

PS.....  ****


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## waikiki

Re. humira, forgot to say earlier that I had it a few years ago - it did work for me to bring my TNF-A levels down, but am not sure that I want to have it again if my levels come back high again.  I had joint pain before the humira and still have it - the doctors can't seem to figure out what causes it.  

OMG, just rubbed my eye and forgot that I've been chopping chillis...got to go...OWWWwwwwwww!


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## vw22

Oh my goodness we have progressed from an obsession with magpies to bottoms!!!


Thanks everyone for your interest in my surrogacy route. Will fill you in in more detail after the trip but the basics are that we have been considering it for ages and its strictly illegal where we are now and where we plan to finally live. So its off to the USA. I have researched the hindlegs off it in every country and every legal system and despite the outrageous costs the US is the only way forward for us. I will now be an expert in something new I fear!!!


In one sentence I would say I am totally up and down on the whole thing but know I have to do something to move on. But in the back of my mind I know I have the chance for another try at a treatment for myself too, so who knows we might go from one extreme to another and get lucky and suddenly have lots of children from all over the place! My views may not suit everyone, so I hope I don't offend when discussing all this.


Han72, Hi and thanks for the offer but I think I am ok at the moment of info...


Mrs Rock... so policing the wedding cost almost as much as doing infertility treatment?!!!!


Waikiki... I can honestly say it still was the best thing I ever did. Maybe not for everyone, but it felt a huge relief when I did sprinkle those ashes into the ocean. I felt like I had let go of their little souls and allowed them to go somewhere else and maybe become a baby for someone else and make them happy. A bit deep and even weird to some maybe, but it helped me. I then really felt a space opened up for something new to happen. Plus the actual process of looking at them, burning them and letting go was quite spirtiual in a way (I am not religous). But having a few digital photos on the computer means you don't lose it forever of you need it for something...but somehow they are not so monumental on a screen and don't scream FAILIURE!


Hi to all those I have missed.


vx


----------



## JBox

Hi wow to all the posts. They just get longer and longer. I'm afraid that I don't have time for a major repsonse but I wanted to just quickly say about that scratching thing that I know 2 women who have done it fter many cycles and got pg with it. I was supposed to do it for this cycvle but my dr forgot about it and when I reminded him about it he said it was too late ( is supposed to be after period and before ovulation I think) so pretty annoyed. If u can do it good luck with it xxxxx


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## vw22

Scratchy thing...


Sorry I meant to repsond to that too. 


I had it last time (didn't get preggers) but think I would recommend it if you can. Its very easy and is just like them doing a smear. I had it 2 days before transfer... and they checked the cells too (normal). 


In fact they say that any hysteroscopy, scratchy thing, salpingagram etc is all good to help waken up all the cells in the uterus. The thinking is that by 'disturbing' the lining, new healthy cells grow and maybe it stimulates blood etc...


hope that helps...


vx


----------



## Winegum

OMG, I see you are not giving me much time off - you have all been very busy and I've only been out for the day    I will of course be back with a post this week but until then, I just wanted to give a vote for the   .  On one of my other threads we used them quite a lot and due to the high number of BFPs they became known as lucky pumpkins.  In the absense of a magpie icon....... 


Hope all the UK girls have enjoyed the BH.  My normal weekend is Sun/Mon so no benefit to me but we DID make the effort to go out for a lovely walk.  


Kat, thanks so much for the diet tips - particularly the oatcakes.  I had forgotten about them.  They will be perfect for when I have hunger pangs - every five minutes    I'm training myself to like savoury treats, like pistachio nuts.  Sorry about the mini-eggs - you are too late, they've been chucked, but if I ever get given any choc, I'll send it on to anyone who wants it   
Bye for now my lovelies x


----------



## jamaicababytrying

JBox thank you so much for your response.... i appreciate it, sorry I am just reading the posts but had a very blah weekend... just not feeling so happy but i'll soon kick it! My stepson is now 13 and used to live with us early in our marriage, the year before we got married and the first year we were married but it wasn't a good time anyway long story etc.. he visits every summer and most Christmases... but i have tried to do everything to "fit" in and i think as he gets older it gets better... but he has 2 younger siblings from his mother and he has asked when we will be having kids... anyway I will try to embrace it as you said but it is hard and especially if we go through with FET while he is here, since i am now convinced it won't happen in May.. will be calling my doctor tomorrow again!Hope you had a good weekend and i will check out that site... thanks like i need one more thing to worry me


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## jamaicababytrying

vw where u think you going? no way we want to be here to share in yur journey and help you along that's what we do!

Kat glad u didn't get too much telling off... well it would be nice to think even if not biological you had a part to play in a young life... I try and i hope it is appreciated! i try to embrace it but there are too many scars and the mother never really helped in the beginning so a lot of rubbish was fed to him... well each i hope that as he grows older things get better


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Han come on down, I live in Kingston... i too have a lining issue and the doctor had put me on vitamin e and progynova not sure the vitamin e worked but the progynova sure did... he did say i could keep using it but i haven't so we'll see the scan i have!

vw u can try the vitamin e, probably didn't take it long enough i may go back on it though..


----------



## JBox

vw - did you have your scratchy thing 2 days before transfer? my doc told me it was too late for me to have after i did the decapaptyl ( can never spell or say that one) for down regging, coz it had to be before period - is that possible? if its before transfer, maybe im in for a chance. will ask him on weds when I see him.

JBT - i know i know i know how hard it is, ESPECIALLY when doing treatment. my SD has stopped asking about more siblings, i cant bring myself to tell her that we are going thro stuff. she was around when i had my m/cs and she didnt get why i was upset and I remember one night her asking me (day before D&C) innocently (but annoyingly)  "have you been crying?", not her fault she was younger and didn't understand, but it was hard all the same. 

On another note, it has always been a  dream of mine to go to Jamaica and go to sun splash ( is that really naff and ridiculous and do you get annoyed with people saying that?)... 

Hello everyone else, kat hope you are ok, winegum, hope the diet has started ok

Waikiki – sad about your donor… but I can understand your mixed feelings. I am also using a donor but its totally anonymous, and the eggs are from ladies abroad( isida) and I know nothing about her or what happens to her. And to be honest, I don’t think I want to. The whole donor route is such a mind fk, that I have kind of shut my head off from it for the meantime. Thought about it and read about it so much, to tell the child ( what child!!!), to not, to know info on donor, to go anon, and its such a mine field, that I cant think about it anymore, but thoughts for another thread me thinks….

so quick update my end: i couldn't kick the cigs on my own this time, think my  driving goal in the past ( getting pregnant) doesn't drive me anymore, coz i don't believe its going to work any more. But have decided that i don't like the grogginess and lethargy it makes me feel and i want to get fit and healthy again after the last 2+ years of drugs and meds and treatments, so am going back tomorrow  to the hypnotist that I went to 6 yrs ago when I stopped last time. Really expensive, but I have to do it so today really is last 24 hours for me..!

Hope you girls have a lovely day - lots of love 
xxxx


----------



## Nordickat

Kitten - I hope you enjoyed planting your plants. There is something very therapeutic about it isn't there?   

Hi Han - it didn't even occur to me that we had a moderator that has to read through our very long posts. I sacked my shrink because I was upset    !

MrsRock -   there is no way in the world that I can do all my work in 20% of the time! I'm not allowed to stay home all day by myself and I have to attend work even if on paper I don't have to actually do any. I'm not going to use the sicknote I don't think but it keeps the powers that be quiet if I have one lol. Surely the only real sense of humour is a juvenile one   

JBT - maybe having to wait for FET is not the end of the world as it'll give you time to get your head in a better place. Having such a hard time messes with your hormones and waiting might give you longer to get things into perspective.

JBox - good luck with the scratchy thing and the hypnotist ..... you are very brave seeing a hypnotist.

Jet - its babies at work that get me most. They are always unexpected and out of place and they get me off guard so I have to go out for a walk to avoid it all.

Waikiki - I'm not sure any of us really know the reason we keep on trying. I think we have all put up so many barriers that we don't really know what feeling is our driving force any longer, whatever it is though its still keeping us going. Maybe there is no wrong reason for us? I did go and make tea before reading your post lol.

VW - maybe once you get to the US and start activeky doing something, your feelings might sort themselves out a bit. I did read your post and have a vision of your surrogate having twins and you having just one more try and getting twins too ...... 4 sets of toddler tantrums ..... imagine that   

OMG winegum - you actually threw out mini eggs. Sacrilege!

I forgot to tell you all I went to bee school at the weekend. DH has done all the theory sessions and we both went to the practical and it is so cool, and so very calming too oddly enough. We should have our own by the end of the month


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## vw22

Kat, bees? How cool! You have such a nature filled life!!! Zero to 4?!!! Bring it on!!! vx


JBox, after all these meds I too am trying to get fit again and get rid of the after effects. I feel like I have no idea whats my body anymore and whats because of the drugs and miscarriage...very weird.


Yes I had the sratchy thing the day before. If we are all talking about the same scratchy thing!!! I presume it needs to be after your period but at a time when the lining is built up. There was one month when they wanted to do it (when I wasn't having a treatment) and I seem to remember them wanting to do it around day 18. I have also read a couple of girls going to my clinic and having it without even being told in advance and so its definately a thing they are in to at the moment especially for repeat failiure girlies.


jamaica... vitamen e? will have a think about that, thanks.


over and out vx


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## Nordickat

I haven't even mentioned the chickens yet have I? Project Bee is 2011 and project quail comes into effects in 2012!


----------



## vw22

Mrs organic, very impressed with the mini farm. Any nordic cats on the noridicat farm?!


Can anyone relate to this? 


When not doing treatment, so in a natural home 'in bed' not 'in stirrups' kind of a month, does anyone get just as stressed out as a treatment month? I am not talking about the 'waiting for af moment' I am talking about the days up to ovulation 


Even now when I have a minus 10 percent chance of getting up the duff naturally, I am still really wanting to try but get so tense. Clock watching, wondering at dinner time if later we are going to 'do it' and then if we don't (can't be bothered, whats the point!) waking up the next morning all tense and thinking must go for it. But not wanting to seem like I am demanding baby-making s e x rather than intimate lurve stuff... All this going on in my head and never mentioning it all to my husband who probably dosen't even know what time of the month it is.


Why can't I relax and just not think about it. Its driving me mad.


Is it just me?!


vx


----------



## Han72

Jaysus, the whole ovulation thing is seemingly designed to drive us totally bonkers   If I was able to still ttc naturally I think I'd go the lazy buggers' route, ie, not bother clock watching or bbt charting or any of that malarkey, I'd just try and do it every couple of days or so around mid-cycle. If your cycle is regular then you can probably figure out when you're ovulating without spending a fortune on pee sticks and we already know that sperm lives for 7 days so even if you do it a bit early that's still ok innit 

Basically it's flipping impossible to not think about it at all but I really think the effort of trying to time it exactly is what makes it REALLY stressful. But obviously it's easy for me to look at it that way cos it's not an option for me anymore   

Rah, I can't believe Nicolas Sarkozy's managed to get his wife preg.  He must have stood on a stepladder


----------



## Nordickat

Reading the word cat just made me sneeze! Even my dog has to hypoallergenic so just feathered friends now ..... although we do have our eye out for a small holding because I want alpaca. Sadly the ones we can afford we don´t like and the ones we like we can´t afford - same old same old    

When we went through our adoption process we were supposed to avoid having our own miracle and it was so wonderfully refreshing to actually not be allowed to try. We never really got back into ttc at the right time after that as I´m not the sort of person that miracles happen to anyway. Now if I got pg it would me a real immaculate conception scale miracle  . For what its worth though I´m pretty sure you are not alone in your thinking vw,  but sorry I can´t help.

This is probably way too much info for you guys but you are my best bet for advice. I think I may have thrush or maybe some other kind of infection  . I´ve never had an infection before though so I don´t really know. I´m taking estradiol valerate though which can cause thrush and I feel pretty uncomfy and generally miserable inside and out. Do probiotic tablets help?


And Nicholas Sarkozy ......... the mind boggles  


Early night for me I think, 
Katxxx


----------



## JBox

Vw
I can relate to what ur saying totally! I have had 2 months break from tx and mid month the whole 'maybe a miracle thing will happen' reared its ugly head too! Its like it never leaves the back of my mind! I don't know how people genuinelly move on and accept that it may never happen naturally or otherwise and live with that forever, happily! I am really trying to do that but I still have those thoughts that maybe just maybe... Those people who say "don't think about it" or "go away on holiday and relax" really don't understand how all encompassing IF can be whether ur in mid cycle or just trying to "be" in no cycle.
I feel for u hon.I do but don't beat yourself up about it. I think its normal - I just can't imagine that thgose back thoughts ever really go (well maybe at age 65 I might not be hoping but I might still be thinking about the what ifs).
Sorry if this makes no sense I'm feeling really rubbish from all the meds I'm back on and am heading to bed for an early night Xx


----------



## Mrs Rock

VW, I could have written your post myself!  I use a clearblue fertility monitor.  Although my cycles are usually 34 days my ov does tend to wander about from days 15 to 18 and I monitor it cos I simply have to know!  Luckily hubby is on board with it and usually does his duty but I do make sure we do it at other times whether I feel much like it or not as don't want him to feel like I only want him mid cycle! BMS is not that much fun and I think it saddens me a bit extra every month when the little hopes you have when you know you got the timing right come to nothing.

Kat - is here a bad smell?  As that would indicate an infection.  I haven't had thrush so can't advise on that sorry. I think probiotic tabs only help with your gut.

JBox - hope an early night makes you feel better tomorrow   

What is this thing about magpies?  I have actually seen 4 or 5 solitary magpies in the past week or so.  Doesn't bode well for my next FET.  I think the buggers stalk me


----------



## vw22

Mrs Rock, how funny you said about seeming like you only want him mid-cycle... so true! 


Jbox, sounds like you totally get what I am talking about too. do you think even when we are 80 we will be thinking...but maybe this month?!!!! I can't imagine ever not thinking that! Hope your early night helps calm the meds down...


Norickat...being told you are not allowed to try would be the perfect answer! 
I havn't had thrush for years (not since I have done all this treatment funnily enough) but I remember it makes you feel lousy physically and mentally even though its only supposed to affect your bits down there! One pessary usually sorts it out, so if you do have it I wouldn't waste any time and just get one in as soon as possible...


Han, sorry me moaning about ovulation when its not an option for you anyway. So carlas pregnant? you are hot with the latest news!!!


vx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Not just you vw... and yes vitamin e! 

Kat good for you, bees and chickens... all i could muster up on the weekend was planting some basil which probably won't grow either... i have a black thumb but trying to change that, hopefully they will want to grow... you are right about the FET, I haven't even called back my doctor and today is day 10 so he would have wanted to do a scan but just not feeling it... so maybe it just isn't the right time! Perhaps mentally i am still not ready...

JBox come on over... nahhh i don't get mad, i am proud that people actually want to come here   sunsplash is no more but we have other great shows throughout the year! thanks for your posts i am glad to hear others perspective on the stepchild issue... again i don't know anyone here with young stepchildren much more fertility issues and stepchildren  

Waikiki - girl it takes every ounce of strength to do this but i know that had I had someone supporting me i would probably had a better cycle (twice), it's such a lonely place.  You know what all in your own time my dear... i can tell you it may not be easy but think about it had the tables been turned... sounds stupid right  

Anyway have a great evening ladies, oh it's night there now huh! well have a good wednesday  

Mrs Rock, Winegum, Han heyyyy


----------



## Mrs Rock

Morning ladies!

I love this thread, so glad I found it   

Going to clinic in a minute for follow up appt to my last cycle, hope I don't get myself all upset.  If cycle plays ball and is ok after the mmc will try and use up our last 2 frosties this month.  I do natural (unmedicated) FETs so it's pretty simple.  We'll see.


----------



## kitten77

hey all, just been catching up with all your posts, you lot can talk!!!

right first off,  KAT-  thrush doesnt have to smell, it can be red/itchy/uncomfortable/hurts inside and outside any or all of the above.  a pessery can help this out or a tablet you can orally take (i cant take thise as this makes my lips (on my face not the other lips  ) swell and looks like i have just spend £5000 on lip injections! haha. 

as for the 'forgetting' about ovulation, no matter how much you try to forget....it never happens, even when you try not to think abotu it its always there, you automatically know when ovulation is coming up - and honestly i dont think that is EVER going to change for me ever, i still hope each month even tho there is only a small % that we can get pregnant natually, its still a % so i will still try!!!!!! 

Mrs Rock - how your appointment go?

whats this abotu vit e?  and never even heard of the scratch thing!!!! something to ask at my follow up appointment tho - not that there is much that they can say about my follow up appointment, its all been said.

whos pregnant, and why is it a shock!? is he short or something?

as for me, nothing to report again, other than i had someone email at work today asking if i can explain when the best time to get pregnant is!!!! haha - ironic! but i explained it for a 'normal' person. ho hum.


----------



## billabong

Ladies!

Hope you don't mind me popping on here to say hello  
I hope to start my 4th IVF soon, I have had 5 IUIs and 6 transfers in total...so a little more than 6 attempts I guess. 

Will take time to get to grips but reading through someone has mentioned the scratch test...Well I have had that done at the hospital that I am at. It didn't work for myself but I have heard a lot of good things about it. My Doctor said it does no harm and studdies have shown an increase in BFPs with ladies who previously have had a few unsuccessful cycles.

Ps. As I am fairly new to all this I was just wondering is this thread world wide or just the UK? 

Good luck and lots love xxxxx


----------



## kitten77

hi billabong and welcome, sorry to find yourself here tho....  

this thread is WORLDWIDE!!!! dont know how that happened but we are all from everywhere!!! love it!


----------



## Nordickat

We could do with a southen hemisphere member billabong if you can help us out   . It would help in our trip planning


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## vw22

Billabong, you in oz? I started off in nz (then uk then spain) and heading back to nz soon... 


By the way the scratch thing I think is called a biopsy even though they don't necessarily analyse anything...


vx


----------



## Nordickat

Hi everyone, 
I´m having a bit of a hard time so I´m going to slope away for a bit. I´ll be back soon though so look after each other while I´m gone.
Love to you all, 
 Katxxx


----------



## vw22

You take care of yourself Kat. Do whatever you need to do to make yourself feel good. 


I will be offline now for about 10 days, so back soon. love to all vx


----------



## Mrs Rock

Oh Kitty Kat   hope you are ok.  Feel better soon honey.

Appt today was pretty uneventful.  Yes I can do my last FET with next cycle as soon as AF shows up.  Dr said I should've had a period by now since the erpc, but I did bleed for 4 (count them) weeks after it so I bet that has delayed things.  She even said "Do you think you are pregnant?"  as if that wouldn't have crossed my mind!  Er, no, but thanks for checking!  Lol, I guess they live in hope   

VW is this a surrogacy trip?


----------



## waikiki

Big hugs Kat    and I hope that you feel brighter soon.  We'll be here for you whenever you need us.

Billabong - welcome! It was me that asked about the scratch, so thanks for telling me how it was for you.  Tbh I'm not convinced it will work for me either, but even the doctor acknowledged that it is the only thing left for us to try!

VW- hope you have a good trip.

 to you all ladies.

waikiki


----------



## Winegum

To our temporarily departing ladies *vw22 *and *Nordickat,* big love and hugs from me    
*Billabong:* Welcome to the thread

Everyone else, night night


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Kat big      feel better soon... we'll be here waiting to welcome u back  

vw have a good trip girl!  enjoy

billabong welcome & where r u from?

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh ladies now i know what u talking when u were saying scratch test! my doctor had mentioned it to me it's the uterus biopsy   duh! thanks for enlightening me dumb!!! now i will actually think more about before i was a little skeptical, but now that i have heard u guys talk about it i feel a little better.

So nothing else happening on my end... chat tomorrow!


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## wobs

Hey ladies

3rd time lucky...posted twice in the last few days and when I post it just disappears and doesn't go on!! grrrrrrrr.....

Anyway....

Kat    
thanks for the diet tips - oat cakes & hummous tastes yummy....you inspired me to make some hummous - but made it with butter beans and like it a bit more...

VW have a good trip...good luck with surrogacy journey.  I'm with you on the ovulation time thing...Even though I know it's not going to happen naturall, still hold my breath when AF due....  

Mrs Rock - 2 frozen blasts is fab....hope follow up goes well

Billabong - hi!

Jbox- hope hypnotist was good

Waikiki - interesting about the scratch/uterine biopsy.....How does it differ from a hysterocopy??

WG - can't beat your mega post!!!!

JBT - hope FET gets sorted out one way or the other   

Kitten - oh dear re: email about best time to get pregnant!!!  I often think I could write a book with all my experiences in!!  However I secretly hoped I would do it once i was pregnant   

Hi Han!  Looking at your profile looks like you've been through the mill with this IF game   

Hi to anyone else I've missed- sorry   

AFM well we're considering options.  Had my stupid AMH down - don't like that test and its dropped from 6 to 1 in a year   
Trying to convince myself if was done at the wrong time - few days after EC - but don't think that's an excuse.
We're plucking up courage to visit the ARGC and see what that route holds.....Possibly!!!  Can't quite think its the end of the journey yet but getting near.  Sorry for negatives - I'm usually pretty positive, can say we have a good life etc...but my AMH has knocked me for 6 really.   

Best get on and get to work.  
Hope this post works this time!!!
Wobs


----------



## wobs

Yeah it worked!!!!!!!!


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## JBox

Morning girlies,

i like the fact that the time difference gives me a 2 hour start on your guys, so that when you are just waking up i am already at work, and have had time to read thro all your posts and now respond....

First of all *KatKat*, hope you get some me-time and get to chill and relax a bit and come back feeling refreshed and happy again. we will miss you but are here for you when you get back. 
*VW * - have a good trip. 
*Billabong * - welcome to our thread. I hope you enjoy your time here
*Han * - you too welcome - I think we crossed over on the Poor responders thread? I never really found my footing there, too many dominant characters making me feel bit insignificant.. 
HI *JBT*, *Wobs*, *Waikiki*, *Winegum*, *Kitten*, *Mrs Rock * and everyone else&#8230;.

This is a real ME post and I hope you don't mind me going into this. I have been in two minds about sending it, coz I don't want it to look like I am a supercilious, condescending cow but at the same time I have been doing so much soul searching recently with some really weird things happening to me and by writing this post, it might just help me fathom it all out.

Before IF hit me, I was a pretty outgoing sociable lady, with a career in film and tv, flying all over the world to the various festivals, hobnobbing with the celebs down the red carpet. When I got pg with my LO I took my maternity leave and 9 months in, was pg a second time. I decided at that point to concentrate on my now growing family and to put the career on hold. Well, that pregnancy ended in m/c at 13 weeks, leaving me with no job and of course, no baby. One year on of trying, waiting and hoping and praying, another pregnancy ended in m/c and I found myself 2 yrs on in the exact same place. I then started the serious stuff (IVF) and at the same time decided that I had to get back to work to get my mind off everything. So with lo in a nursery, I took a local, underpaid, dead-end, part-time job to regain some normalcy and stop the "sitting at home and waiting" game. The job was supposed to be a time-filler til I got pregnant but I have been here for over a year and a half!

Looking back, I have spent the last nearly 3 years in a dark, dark place - so far away from the person I used to be. I have gone up the fertility ladder so to speak, from TTC - IUI - IVF - DEIVF and still have not got anywhere. During that time, I have seen countless friends get pregnant, have babies who have turned into toddlers and&#8230; get pregnant again. I have had my step daughter come live with us full time bringing with her a ridiculous amounts of internal emotions that hit me like a train. I have seen elderly family members pass away, friends move on, my nephews / nieces leave primary and start secondary school and suddenly this morning, it hit me like a ton of bricks that my gorgeous amazing little baby is nearing 4 and life has just passed me by. I thought despite everything that I was pretty grounded these past few years, but I realized that IF has entirely consumed my every waking moment,

Since my trip to the UK, something changed- I don't know what and why suddenly now, but my attitude has shifted. I have started to appreciate the good things I have in my life as opposed to mourning the holes and gaps and I THINK this may be the beginning of the "acceptance and moving on&#8230;" It's a weird process and I don't really want to 100% allow myself to be there. I want to cling on to the dark sad place, coz there, there was still a glimmer of hope that I might get pregnant. But somehow I am moving away, subconsciously and without my will, and its so so so weird. I am starting to feel that I am slowly returning to my old self and that IF is not going to define me anymore. I have even recently had comments that I look different - that I am looking good - so this shift is obviously starting to have an affect. My next stop would be to ditch this dead-end job and start looking for something challenging and more suitable to me.

I am really sorry if I sound full of it, I *REALLY *  don't mean to. I just feel (and trust me I don't believe in any of this) that there is some higher power pulling me out of my misery and taking me to a better place. I can't explain it to my dh, I can't really explain it to myself, but I had to put it down in black and white here so that when I get the expected BFN in a few weeks time and I am dragged back to that dark lonely sad depressive place again, I can read back on this and remember how far I have come..&#8230;

thanks for listening and please dont hate me...


----------



## Nordickat

I had to quickly pop back on and wish vw well on your big trip. I was a bit self absorbed and forgot all about it yesterday. Good luck though and I hope it helps close some doors and open whole new ones for you   

And while I'm here, JBox, your post was perfectly lovely   and I think it does nothing for the rest of us but give us hope that one day we will all realise that we are actually moving on. I have worried often about whether I will know when to stop and I'm quite scared that I will do one too many which will break me for good, but I have been assured many times that it doesn't happen like that and its not a concious decision, it just slowly happens that you find yourself being you again. Be proud of yourself   

Thanks for all your kind words, I'll bounce back, I always do, just with a little less bounce each time. I thought it was the new meds or the infection making me feel so generally awful and low, but apparently not. I actually cried today with my legs akimbo in the stirups and I was so angry at myself - I don't do public crying ever - but the consultant said he has been waiting for it to happen. I suspect I'm not the only one here who is guilty of not appreciating quite what we have put ourselves through. He said it happens quite often with ladies who are on 6/7+ attempts, and it just all suddenly gets a bit too much. He was lovely though and after much begging he has agreed I don't need another scan as I am pretty much like clockwork anyway, and I can go to the UK this weekend. My best friend is also having a shocking time so we are meeting up for cake to talk about diving holidays and hiking holidays and no [email protected] stuff.

Thanks again and I'll be back soon I promise,   Katxxx


----------



## vw22

Couldn't resist a few last minute posts before I am cut from computer world.

Wobs
The biopsy is basically a less invasive process to a hystoscopy. Just like when you have an internal scan (jump in chair, no anesthetic etc) they go in with a catheter (bit more uncomfortable than a smear test) and collect some 'liquid' from the wall of the uterus. Just a bit uncomfortable but done in 3 minutes. A hysto is under anesthetic and they have a really good poke about and and also have a camera to see any fibroids etc. Hope that lovely description helps!

JBox
Just had to comment on your comments! How could anyone hate you, you silly moo!!! I am so glad you wrote it and I think its important people realise that you will survive and have a great life ahead whether or not a baby happens too. And that can be so hard to remember.

Emotionally I absolutely get what you are saying. That feeling of complete and utter loss as to what is the real me, is a feeling that has grown with the medications and constant appointments. I didn't even know my true weight anymore or whether my moods were 'real' or med based. As a very social person I also couldn't plan anything (in case I would have to be at the clinic) so suddenly I felt I was losing control of my own free time. And as for the creative side of me (I am a designer/artist) well I felt so inadequate as a woman that my self esteem dived. Anyway, I am just reinforcing everything you are commenting on.

Then I too decided to change the way I saw things. I cut 12 inches of my hair off with an old pair of scissors (and posted it to a cancer charity to make wigs!!!) and felt like I had cut off 12 months of crappyness... I got my rock n roll boots out and thought back to what made me really tick. And thats when, like you I felt like maybe I was 'moving on'. My life is so wonderful in every other way except making a baby and I so appreciate that, but it was weighing me down so much that I was turning into something else, someone I didn't really like.

I didn't want to high jack your lovely post but I really wanted to say to others, that even though they may not be at this stage (and hopefully a baby will come along so its not even a stage they have to worry about), it is possible to evolve and come through all this in a way that doesn't mean sadness and thoughts of failiure. In fact I think once you start this new journey (acceptance or whatever you call it) only better and better things will come... lets face it how can you get much lower so surely the only way is up?! Just my interpretation.

You are right you have come a long way. And a bfn will never be laughed at but the time to get 'over it' will surely get shorter. Even if its a bfp, we all know that the worries and concerns will over take any joy too, so its hard to look forward to the result whatever, if you know what I mean!!!

Like everyone here, I don't have all the answers and certainly don't feel confidently smug enough to say "yeah, I am moving on, aren't I great!!!" But I really know what you mean, that somehow at somepoint, something clicks in another way. And if I had known that earlier, and been able to trust that whatever happened I would still be ok, it might have made the journey to this point a little less depressing.

Hope I am making sense...


Kat.
There is real 'star' like quality about you I can tell, and thats only through what and how you write!!!!!! You can tell a lot about someone and after many years of analysing stuff I am an expert. Sounds so stupid but I know I am right. Ok you mmay have other stuff going on thats complicated but what you talk about here is very normal and you are as strong and as weak as any of us. Never forget that.

vx


----------



## JBox

V - i m sitting at work with tears in my eyes!You are so articulate and you just write such poignant words so effortlessly. You summed up so much of what i was tryinbg very inadequately to say in my post. The moving on is, in one way amazing, but also very very sad too. Its actually sadder than being in that sad place after a bfn, coz its admitting that life has given you a SHT deal and now you have to live with it. 
Have a great trip wherever you are going xxx
Thank you girls for not judging me. last time i wrote a real hearfelt post on another thread, i got ostrosized and felt i had to leave. 
i love it here xxxx


----------



## Mrs Rock

Gosh ladies, JBox and VW, I have read your posts with gratitude.  That's all I can say for now as I find my emotions are very confused.  But wanted to assure you JBox that you don't sound 'full of it' and both of you ladies have actually brought me a bit of comfort today.

Kat - enjoy your weekend, I hope it does you good   

Hi Wobs, JBT, Winegum, Han, Kitten, everyone else   

Gosh how I love this thread


----------



## kitten77

god - tears in eyes too im afraid, all i want to do is DITTO mrs Rs post.

someone putting that into words is so heartwarming, so understandable and lets me make sense of my feelings too when in fact i didnt understand why my last BFN even tho sad....wasnt as sad as usual....is it acceptance....you know i think it maybe is.....

Jbox - we would never feel the need to belittle anyones post or emotions, and this place here is for you, at no point will this happen so you can write away till your hearts content, and as you find, many people are on same wavelength as you (and me too have been on threads where i felt it was time to leave). 

vw - enjoy your weekend!!!!

kat - always here when you need us babe. always. 

ditto Mrs R - i love this thread to!!!

hello everyone!!!


----------



## Han72

YEAH!  Whut you all sed!  What a blooming marvellous thread this is  

KittyKat - honey you feel free to lurk or post or stay away completely, whatever you need to do to feel better but you'll always know where we are, right?  

It's a bit rubbish having had loads of negative cycles but if I hadn't I'd never have 'met' you guys so I spose every cloud really does have a silver lining 

xxx


----------



## Jet

Hi Girls   
Wobs oh I love hummous it is yummy, each evening I have got some bread sticks I dip in as I am getting dinner ready... have you got a appointment with ARGC? good luck   
Mrs Rock hope your FET is sucessful   
Hi Han welcome 
Jbox thank you for your post silly billy of course we do not hate you it is good to get things off your chest we know what you mean it is such a hard/ emotionally journey I do agree it does change you and your out look on things, I never for a second believe this could happen to me as a teenager I always said I would finish having my family by the time I was 30 yrs because that was way to old!   here I am 40years still no babies I wish I was not so good at taking my pill when I was younger! doh....
I have made a promise to myself that no longer am I going to put my period on the calender as I do not want to start obess about oh I am 2 days late?? can I be pregnant after 16 years ttc I know it will never happen....
As for me we have booked a holiday in Italy in September it is nice to have something to look forward to, it is somewhere I have always wanted to go!!! yahoo......
Have a lovely evening
take care
Jet


----------



## vw22

Tears? Oh hunnies, sorry for that!!! 
You know what? I am going send the past couple of pages as a pdf to my DH. You have all shown me that we are not alone or 'abnormal', just different. Thankfully I have here to help me, but our partners miss out I think. I want him to know how lovely, intelligent, sincere and strong we all are... thank you vx


----------



## billabong

Hiya ladies!

Wow reading through the last few posts you all seem a lovely bunch!

jbox--You made total sense, I think we all know the exact place you are coming from. It's such a feeling of loneliness going through what we go through but to read what you ladies write takes some of that loneliness away. 

wobs--Don't give up hope, I have known ladies with a very little % of treatment working and they have eventually gone on to have their dream! A chance is still a chance of it happening!

waikiki--The scratch definitely worth a try, the research has been promising. My doctor that did it for me has been researching infertility for years and has been around the world giving lectures. It hasn't been proven yet but it has shown good results. If I am still trying after a couple of attempts I will have it done again. I have also had the Killer Cell test done, which came back negative.

Nordicat--Hope you have the break you are looking for, don't go for too long!

vw22--I guess you are going travelling..Have a great trip! Are you thinking of trying surrogacy, it is something that has crossed my mind too.

kitten77--Cool, the thread I normally post on has mainly people from the hospital I am at.

AFM--This thread seems great and you are from all over I guess? Well I am from the UK (Sheffield) I know my user name sounds as if I am from Oz. Let me know where you are all from, it's great that we can all get together like this  
Sending lots of love to you all xxxxx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

JBox   that was a positively powerful post... You r an inspiration... 

Hi everyone hope you have a lovely weekend... no news on FET   not going to let it stress me, maybe it just isn't the right time... 

Nite JBT


----------



## Mrs Rock

Morning ladies

Hi Billabong welcome to the thead   .  I am in south east London, but originally from Liverpool, not very exotic I'm afraid! 

Anyhow, just popped on to say I just off for a 70s weekend with girls from my pain support group, think it is going to be great fun!  Will read on my phone but can't post as phone does my head in so will catch up Monday night when I'm back.  Have a lovely weekend everyone x


----------



## wobs

hey ladies....

What lovely posts jbox and vw.
Jbox I think I did a similar thing - used to get out and about and do lots and was in a choir etc....then left the choir because I wanted to join a different one but never did because I was on ivf no. 2 and it was bad timing....and then there has always been a good excuse....I've stayed in my job (which until recently I enjoyed) because i was always going to leave to have children....however now we are starting to plan a plan B future - possibly selling the house and buying a wreck and having a year out to do it up etc.... and time for regrouping etc... I agree that IF can become all consuming - well done you on your attitidue shift.  I know I'll get there eventually but think for now I have a way to go.

Nordicat - hope you're feeling brighter soon.  I can totally empathise with the tears/stirrups story   

VW - wow cutting off your hair...another inspiring post thanks.  Ta re: biopsy info too...

Jet - breadsticks and hummous - now there's a yummy thought   Holiday booking sounds like a good plan - that's another thing we always put off cos we might be having treatment etc...!! arrrrgggggggg....Going to try and stop being so IF focused and get some things booked on the assumption that we won't have treatment/it won't work and then will have some lovely things to look forward too.  I have been good and put in for the olympics ballot - though who knows if we'll get any tickets.  Mind you was amused to see that they will take our money before letting us know if we have got tickets!!   

Mrs Rock - hope you had a lovley weekend.  Sounds fun.

JBT - well done on not letting the FET news stress you.  

Hi Billabong - thanks for your kind words.  You're right a chance is still a chance, and for a while I will cling on to that.

Loving this thread; gives me hope and makes me feel brighter
thanks ladies
Wobs


----------



## Winegum

Me too!  But in a good way.  I have never been on or read a thread with such an opportunity and desire to share what long term ttc does to us and it is so reassuring to know that you are all out there feeling the same as me and experiencing the same as me, and like me, you are strong, interesting, articulate, caring, patient, resilient, amazing, loved and loving women.  I will be back to comment properly on the posts and give my perspective sometime over the weekend.     
Big love to you all xxx


----------



## Nordickat

Just to let you know I'm thinking of you all   . I'm running on empty though so I'll just read and lurk for a bit I think.
 Katxxx


----------



## JBox

Lurk away Kat x


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Hey ladies, had a really crappy day yesterday... it was mother's day! so i had to work as it's a very busy day for us, and i just could not shake the feeling of darkness, lonliness and just plain jealousy! It's also hard that my mom doesn't live here... Thought I would have been ok but just wasn't and then everybody telling you happy mother's day and them not knowin u not a mom... So one of my employees told me happy mother's day, usually i just say thanks and move on but it just came out "I am not a mother" so she just kept going on really, really you not a mother as if to say how could you not! Anyway she kind a not so sensible so I just left it alone, but good golly people... 

So that was my day yesterday not having a much better day today but i have lots of work and no time to feel sorry for myself.

have a great day ladies.


----------



## kitten77

hey peeps, just to say that im still here and will read back in a moment - just wanted to say Jamaica - it is hard isnt it and when people 'assume' that your a mum it hits hard, you either have to play along or tell them even if you dont want to.

it happened to me a couple of years ago at my nephews birthday party, they were doing games for the kids and the DJ shouted out....'grab yourself a mummy and sit down' - so of course 20 kids and and 5 adults in the room you can imagine how many children came over to grab my hand....bless them they dont have a clue, but all the other people in the place gave me daggers to say 'you cant play as your not a mummy and its cheating' - i had to stand there and explain to each and every child that came up to me that im not a mummy so i cant play........it ripped my heart out.


----------



## Han72

Hi all

feeling your mother's day pain girlies  And I have to get through 3 of the buggers  Cos I'm a Brit but live in France AND have family in the US and all 3 countries have different mother's days. I'm seeing interflora reminders now for the French one.

It didn't used to bug me that much but last year was the worst. My grandma came over from the states about this time last year and when she unpacked she starting handing these envelopes out all over the place, mum got one, she handed one to my auntie and to various cousins so I sat there expectantly waiting for mine thinking maybe she was handing out birthday cards in advance or something but there was nothing for me. I jokingly said "oi where's mine then," thinking it was a genuine oversight and there was an awkward silence.

Being a nosey bugger I was looking over mum's shoulder when she opened hers.... they were mother's day cards. I don't know what my face must have looked like when I realised but then I had to laugh it off like it didn't really hurt like hell.

I'm tired of smiling when I want to cry. On and on eh JBT?! I think that's my signature tune. Well the chorus fits anyway 

http://www.stephenbishop.com/albums/lyrics/onandon.html

/links


----------



## jamaicababytrying

On and On Han... that's terrible you had to go thru that! 3 Mother's Day to contend with awww   
when is it in France? It is hard, you know almost every year I work on Mother's Day and it is usually a good distracting but this year was hard. I was so close to having a little one and it just didn't happen so it is still so fresh... anyway c'est la vie!

Kitten you know what I mean  

So I saw my doctor last night, no FETs yet   kinda knew that anyway but had to hear it, such a sucker for punishment.. the long and short of it is the embryologist is doing a cycle now and she wants to see what the results are before doing any FETs... so i just have to wait till such time. So maybe June   

Hope you all are having a good week so far... have a nice day guys


----------



## JBox

Hi everyone
Sorry to hear about the mothers day disasters but its all a load of commercial ****** anyway and just a way  for the card and present companies to cash in!!!! Think we should make up another card giving reason just for us women - how about PUPO luck or  failed tx commiserations or 2WW loads of luck or even better, international wonderful ff women day! Mothers day puh!!
Having a bad day after all my upbeat acceptance moving on positive bla bla blas of last week, am feeling sad crap and down. Got another week befor et and then the dreaded 2ww which I know will end no differently from all the others. And even tho I know it and am trying to prepare and harden myself for it I am already nervous sad and depressed about it.
Why can't I just be happy 100 percent with what I've got? Why can't I stop yearning for more all the time? Why do those niggly thoughts keep rearing their ugly head? I suppose spending the day with my friend and her 3 month old twins (yes ivf success) and my other 5 month prgv friend and a load of others all talking babies and clucking and how they all want another didn't help! 
I'm just not sure I'm strong enough to do this all over again


----------



## Nordickat

Jbox - you can do this and you will do it. Today was a bad day and tomorrow will be brighter. You know that waiting for things to happen gives you too much time to think. Be brave and hang in there   .

JBT, Han and Kitten    for your sad stories too

 to everyone else too, Katxxx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

JBox      Miracles do happen I have to believe that and so should you, i know it sound stupid and fool fool but they do happen     hope u feel better tomorrow


----------



## JBox

thanks girls
really really really need to get that positivity back again. i dont understand where it all went, am feeling so bad right now. and obsessed again, like the maybes, what ifs, hopes etc are taking over my every waking thought


----------



## billabong

Hiya Ladies

It breaks my heart to hear your stories because it is exactly how I feel   I have been trying for so long now that it is becoming difficult to believe that it is ever going to happen. BUT then you hear someone that has struggled and they finally get their dream. So I guess we will all have those dark dark days where we get lost in our nightmares but we have to be strong on our good days to have the strength to try again. I believe in fate and luck because when it finally does happen for us won't we just make the best mums ever and how wanted and loved will our baby's be!! 
I see a lot of mothers that begrudge their children for stopping them doing things like jobs, going out and if single finding partners etc and then there is the other type that neglect their children taking drugs and alcohol..   They just don't know how lucky they are.

Everyone on here deserves their chance and I   that it will happen!

Has there been anyone on this thread that has had a BFP recently?

I have a doctors appointment today to discuss why after 2 IVFs (excellent fertilisation) why the 3rd go was so poor. Really confused to as what happened. Only 1 fertilised out of 9 eggs, everything was ok with sperm and my eggs?? 
Hope I can get some answers  

Have any of you Ladies had tests that I may not have had? I have had all the usual bloods plus extras like killer cell and today my DH is having sperm DNA test too.
(Sorry for all the questions)

Take care and         to everyone xxxxx


----------



## Han72

JBox said:


> thanks girls
> really really really need to get that positivity back again. i dont understand where it all went, am feeling so bad right now. and obsessed again, like the maybes, what ifs, hopes etc are taking over my every waking thought


It's the drugs maaaaan!! Hon don't beat yourself up for not being all happy happy joy joy 24/7, it's perfectly natural to have these ups and downs, especially when cycling! Anyone that doesn't isn't normal as far as I'm concerned!   

Billabong, there's a whole raft of tests listed on the immunes board... http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=52.0
However I would ask them for the details of the sperm quality last time around, to confirm that all the eggs were mature and also ask about ICSI for the next time around

Love to all!

xxx


----------



## Mrs Rock

JBox I second that, it is definitely the drugs, they mess up your hormones and your emotions. Once when stimming I knocked over a cup of coffee in the kitchen and instead of just cleaning it up like a normal person, I got fully clothed into bed and wailed and howled under the covers like it was the end of the world. My DH just calmly got me another cup but I think the poor man was probably a bit frightened of his nutty wife that week!

However I do know exactly what you mean about assuming it won't work. I am doing the same about my latest FET. I have a scan on Monday to see what lining is like and expect ET to be around 28 May. Of course there has to be a tiny cigarette-lighter flicker of hope somewhere, otherwise we just wouldn't do it at all, but really it's easier not to hope than to hope, IYKWIM. I have major fears that I won't even get to ET as every time we have done an FET we have lost embies on thawing and we only have 2 left. Oh well I just try to block the worry out as I can't do anything to influence whether they survive the thawing or not.

Kitten, Han, your Mother's Day stories made me so sad, and angry too. It's not fair that you had to go through that. This year Mother's Day was right after my mmc and I didn't send my Mum a card even though I'd already bought one, I know it's churlish but I just didn't have the heart to.

Anyway chin up ladies and soldier on! I had a great weekend away with the girls and it has done me a power of good  . Like the idea of an alternative card-giving day. Think we should have a "Happy Lovely Fertility Friends Day" cos I would love to send you all a card for that 

Han, my theme tune is "Maybe this time" from Cabaret!
http://www.songlyrics.com/cast-of-cabaret/maybe-this-time-lyrics/

/links


----------



## Han72

Mrs Rock said:


> Think we should have a "Happy Lovely Fertility Friends Day" cos I would love to send you all a card for that


YEAH! Whut she said! 

xxx


----------



## Nordickat

Well, I´ve had some time to try and get my head together, and I think having a bit of a natter to JBox has helped today too   

I had the best and worst weekend away all rolled into one. I have a slight issue with my parents at the moment - they betrayed my confidence and I can´t forgive them. So many crimes are forgivable, but not betrayal in my simple world. And their fridge is now covered in baby photos. I have no idea who the babies even are but it ripped my heart out. My sister announced that her SiL is pregnant with their 2nd IVF baby and how wonderful it is because it was their last shot and they had had so many attempts (3 attempts = 2 babies). And the list of [email protected] just goes on so I will spare you, but it involves breast feeding PhD students (like I care), father to be PhD students (like I care) and so much work that instead of being able to use my sicknote, I´ll be working 10 hours a day. On the plus side, I saw my best friend over the weekend and she is fab. She never ever says the wrong thing and at the same time doesn´t treat my IF like some taboo subject that we can´t discuss.

Billabong - sometimes fertilization rates are very random. Some cycles I have got 80-90% and other just 10%. I don´t think its necessarily a sign for future cycles   I hope they put your mind at rest today.

Love to you all, 
Katxxx


----------



## wobs

Hey ladies

Can't believe those mother's day stories!!!!   

Kat   don't know what to say to take away any of the rubbish or the pain, but you will get through this.  Sorry re: your parents.  Do they know about your struggles?  People can be soooooo insensitive at times.  I try to look on the flip side and think that they don't mean it/they don't realise but it is soooo hard.  Hoping the next few days are better   

Billabong - can't really help you with fertilisation rates as ours our always rubbish    We've had chromsomes/karyotype testing done (after our 3rd BFN) on the NHS and some level 1 immunes.  I agree with Kat though it isn't necessarily a sign for future cycles.  Were you on a different drug regime this time?  Hope you got some answers today.

mrs rock - hope Monday's scan good.

Jbox - agree with other comments. You are strong enough to go through this.  Your hormones will be all over the place.  It's all the waiting and thinking that makes it worse.   

JBT - don't understand re; your FET - are they reviewing your previous cycle or is the embryologist just starting FETs?  Sorry - being dim.

Re; cycles not working - I think that our clinics wouldn't let us cycle again if there was not a chance of it working.  I know they are money making machines, but they would not risk their stats but letting us cycle if they didn't think it might work.  We still have a chance of a BFP 
      to everyone...

Hi Han, Jet, Kitten and anyone I've missed.

Right got to go and mark some dreaded SATs tests.  Hate this part when I look at what they've done and they have totally forgotten everything i have taught them   bless 'em

take care all.  Sending lots of happy dust to everyone- i think a few random pictures are in order to cheer us all up...          

OH I love him!!!     

Wobs
x


----------



## Nordickat

Sorry my last post sounded such me post. It wasn´t my intention but my dinner was suddenly ready and DH seems to be under the illusion that he is more important than you guys ........ men, honestly   


Anyway, now I feel too rubbish to finish my post (had ec today and kind of over did it when I got home) but I´ll come back tomorrow when I´ve had a lovely sleep.


Night night,


----------



## wobs

Kat
It wasn't a me post at all!  hahaha!! re: dinner!!
  

Wobs


----------



## Winegum

Lovely Kat, I'm so glad you haven't disappeared and have popped back to see us.  I'm sending you a huge hug.  I sense you feel battered and bruised and betrayed - all on top of your tx, yet still your loveliness shines through.  Have a lovely sleep and take care of yourself, and I mean that literally, not just figuratively OK?

Everyone else, I know I said I would be back at the weekend, but I didn't say which weekend!  I'm lurking and will post soon.  Special hugs to JBox.


----------



## billabong

Nordicat--I understand about families (shame you can't choose them like you can your friends) I won't bother going into detail about mine but not many people I know have the perfect family..you are not alone!   
Have you just had EC today? Hope all went well and you are getting some rest, sounds like your Dh is looking after you.

Han72--Thanks for the link I will look into it.  

AFM--Had my appointment today. All went well besides the mad rush getting there, had to pick my DH up from work so only one parking space to find. Dropped him off first to do his bit for the DNA test. I was so stressed rushing around, picked him up and literally threw him at the entrance after passing all my stress on to him...god knows how he managed to do a sample  (also trying naturally as I am ovulating,so a late night last night too) Bless   
Went through everything with the Doctor and got to the decision that we should change to ICSI now. She said that our last go could have just been a one off but did we want to go through it all again and waste the money too? I think we may decide to do as she suggested although I did think if we had a good number eggs we could do half IVF and half ICSI?
She has put us down for wc 27th June, they were all booked up for this coming month. So I have to wait for another AF then start on my next one   Just want to get going asap  

lots of love hugs and   to everyone with lots of    xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sorry It will take a little time to get to grips of you all on here)


----------



## Winegum

Billabong: Just a quickie.  Our first go was an IVF/ICSI split and although we had 4/6 eggs fertilise with conventional, the embryos were no good.  We had 6/7 of the ICSI ones fertilise and 2 ICSI embryos put back.  On our second go we were recommended to do just ICSI and Dr G who I am now under for immune tx has agreed we should stick with ICSI.  My DH has no known sperm issues nut it appears we get better embryos with ICSI.  I'll be very interested to see the result if your dh's DNA fragmentation test as we are considering that.  Remind me, have you had karyotyping done?  I would say that if you know fertilisation is taking place with IVF but you aren't getting good embryos then go fir ICSI.  Good luck with this one.

Kat: how are you this morning? Hugs.

JBox: hope your PMA has gone up a degree or two?


----------



## billabong

Winegum--Thanks hun, I should hopefully get the result back today of the DNA fragmentation. The Doctor said that if we get a bad result then at least we know and it will be down to luck. She said that there is nothing they would be able to do to help and we should just carry on and do ICSI. My embryos have been good as far as I know and we got 3 blastocysts on the previous cycle to this last cycle where only 1 fertilised out of 9 good eggs. My problem has been poor implantation up to now but as far I  know there isn't anything else we can do really. We are both quite healthy my DH doesn't drink and I only have the odd glass of wine. I think it is just going to be the case of how long can we carry on for before we break or we can't finance treatment anymore  
I am going to check if I have had karyotyping done..not sure..I think I have had every other test now that I should have? Do you know when you might be starting your 3rd attempt?   xxxx


----------



## kitten77

hi everyone.

grrrrr - on the bad stories - but   on the LETS GET THE POSITIVITY BACK!

kat - fingers x for this cycle babe.

as for the stats.....each cycle is different in everyones case so cannot go on last cycle as to what your next one will be.  we only have isci as MF problem but now i believe that there is a implantation problem with me and want to go and find out about it.  

on that note, who is Mr G as i was looking at going to see mr ramsey in london for some testing as we are getting to the end of the line and want to try eveyrthing!

hello everyone, at work so cant post much boss behind me. will be back if i can later!


----------



## Mrs Rock

Kitten, it is Dr Gorgy at Fertility and Gynaecology Academy, he does the immune tests and every other test you can think of, I ahve had them all


----------



## JBox

Hi Kitten, 

Go see Dr Gorgy at the Fertility and Gynecology academy, wimpole street, london. He is very nice and efficient, but wont diagnose anything without actual test results which he will send you off to do.(Your ultimately can pick pick and chose the ones you want to do out of what he suggests – they are REALLY expensive and some of them are a bit grim !!!). they do the bloods on a Monday Tuesday and Wednesday morning ( right mrs rock??). so make your appt on those days so you can go straight next door to do them, otherwise its two trips up to London. 

Also read Dr Alan Beers book - is your body baby friendly - to understand what the tests are about and when you get your results, what they mean....

i did it when I was back in uk for my holiday last month. My Dr here is quite against all this immune tests, really doesn't believe in it, thinks its all a load of crop and puh puhs which has also swayed my husband who went along with it but doesn’t really believe in it either. But i didn't want to look back in a few years time and say i didn't do everything i could to help myself. 

I was ( am) convinced that I had an implantation problem and that my natural killer cells must be really high and hence killing off any embryos but as it turns out, they aren't that high. Dr G put me on what seems to be the standard treatment: clexane, steroids and extra progesterone and also told to me to do the intralipid drips but they don't do them here in TA so i am not doing them….

hether it works or not, only time will tell. it seems that even women who have done immune tests and treatments don't get pg straight away, and it hasn’t yet been approved and licenced by health boards, so its still pretty "experimental" and "new". There is a lady on the the FGA thread, who is an absolute knowledge and authority on this subject and answers questions quickly and is very very nice. Her name is Agate and she has put up an amazingly comprehensive list of all the immune testings, questions and answers .

good luck with it all darling…. It’s a mine field, but hopefully you will find your answers soon.

ME TODAY? I feel very agitated and on edge  and not sure if it’s the drugs doing it to me….


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Morning Ladies

Wobs: they are doing some construction on the unit now and the embryologist does not want to thaw any embryos until she is ok with the results of the current fresh cycle she is running... so not sure when it will happen I am hoping for June but who knows.

So this is a quick note at work and have lots to do but I just had to come one and share this, stupid things people say: yesterday i attended a funeral and saw an old family, friend of my parents so she started off with no kids yet? no not yet, really no kids yet again i say no not yet... her next response was so what you waiting on! at that point i wanted to just cobber her... now i usually have a standard answer for anyone who asks and that is "when the time is right" but yesterday i just tripped over my words and couldn't answer... i felt so mad after! when she was leaving she came back to me and started asking about my siblings and how many kids they have and again so you doan have none with a smirk arggghh... then i think she saw the look on my face and said well when you ready! i am really usually really good with answers to that question but not yesterday it was just too much... 

Anyway I will write another message later when i get home.


----------



## Nordickat

Billabong  - You stressing your DH out reminded me of my poor DH and his chlamydia test. I told him it was urine test which he obviously agreed to as its a piece of cake. Anyway, whilst at the clinic the consultant said they would do it and he went out to get the ´equipment´ for it. ´Equipment´ seemed an odd word for a pee pot but still we waited. Eventually the consultant came back with all sorts of stuff including the giant cotton bud and I realised exactly what was happening but poor DH thought he was still being carted off for a pee test. Even when the Dr came into the toilet with him, he just thought it was odd that the Dr wanted to help him pee. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when the Dr told him to drop his pants    And you should have seen the look of shock on his face when he came back in, walking with a slightly odd stance (apparently it hurts quite a lot   ). Oh, and then they lost the sample and he went to the GP and peed in a pot instead    . 


I´m doing OK today. I´m off to some fancy hotel tonight with work and get this for bravery - I had a breakdown a couple of years ago and as it happened at work, they sent me to their shrink. I saw her for a long time but in the end she decided she wasn´t qualified to help me and found me somebody else. Anyway, she is coming to do some workshop with us tomorrow which is so far out of my comfort zone its not true, but I´m going    I´m quite proud of myself ..... although clearly it hasn´t happened yet and as I am officially sick, I might just come home lol.


BIllabong - i hope you get some answers today. Any answer is good because it gives you something to work on. BTW, I am still trying not to be disappointed that we have to visit you in Sheffield and not Oz   
JBox    and     . And be proud of yourself re the smoking   


Sorry, too much wafflling and I´ve run out of time again  .


Lots of love to one and all, 
Katxxx


----------



## Nordickat

JBT


----------



## Han72

JBT - God save us from tactless j'cans. I recently had an uncle give me a lecture about how changing positions might help   He still carried on even after I'd said "I HAVE NO TUBES!!!"  FFS   

The last time someone asked me I just pointed upwards and said "ask Him" 

NordicKat - yeeeouch!!    And then for them to lose the sample so it was a pee test anyway... oops        Enjoy the hotel hon and if you don't fancy the damn workshop, soddit! Just stay in your room and order loads of lovely room service instead   

xxx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Han you know what yuh right! next time will say "ASK HIM"  change positions eeh like upside down and so...

tell me about it! I need to catch up with everyone later, i have been neglecting my FF...

   to all


----------



## Han72

Who knew, all this time if I'd just done headstands after a bit of nookie I'd be octomom by now


----------



## billabong

Hiya

JBox--I guess it is easy to get lost in all the different tests you can do, like you said I suppose you don't have the 'what ifs'. Would you say that you have had all of them now?

Jamaica--Sorry you had to be in that situation, grrrr some people just don't have a clue  

Nordickat-- You have just made me laugh out loud, God knows what went through my DHs head as I was reading.
Arrrh your poor DH, what would we do without them?   
A nice memory I have from EC was that he was so concerned on the first ever go that he still had hold of my hand bag and was wearing all the theatre gear. He looked like he was working in a kitchen, well I think with help from the drugs I just couldn't stop laughing at him. I can still picture him now as he is quite a mans man, he just looked so scared for me being in pain. I do feel bad for our other half's sometimes they go through it all too  
Where are you from? Sorry I am not in Oz but you more than welcome to Sheffield anytime  

Lots of        to everyone xxxxxxxxx


----------



## wobs

Kat -     re: the chlamydia test!!!! hope you enjoyed your fancy dinner

JBT - grrrrrrrr!!! people!!!  I hope soon I'll be at the stage I can easily say "it isn't always that easy for everyone"...have said that once and got a shocked response   then no more said.  Construction at the unit - how annoying....

Billabong - my DH has not had DNA frag done cos not a big enough sample, but we were told he should take high level vit e, c and omega 3 as that is all he would take anyway if it came back high.
nice vision of the handbag   

hi everyone else

bedtime...am shattered.  Can't cope with a proper 5 day week after all these bank holidays!
Wobs


----------



## kitten77

morning all - had had to laugh at all the DHs!!! teehee.

thanks for the inform on MR G - have no idea why Mr Ramsey was in my head....or are they at the same place do you know?  its now my mission to look into all this (i have done this before once and never went to get them done as couldnt afford it AND a tx so just went for tx - ho hum!) - so its start again from scratch. 

wow what a looooooong week - thought it was saturday this morning, which is a bit of a poo when realise gotta get up for work for another day!!! wishing my life away again!


----------



## Nordickat

at your DH billabong. 

I'm feeling a little peed off. I have spent a fortune on tx and it turns out all we needed to do was be a bit more adventurous in the bedroom   Do you think we will one day be able to laugh about all the idiots out there and their top tips?

I hope the sun shines on you all this weekend
 Katxxx


----------



## kitten77

on the silly things people say DH has them to, ive just texted him to say that i think AF is on her way as got really bad tummy pains, and why cant we seem to have a miricule..... he texts back saying 'remember it will happen when we stop trying wont it' - with a cheeky smile....we get that comment all the time - so glad we can sort of laugh at it now!


----------



## jamaicababytrying

yes it is nice to laugh about it with DH    when i was lamenting about the lady at the funeral he says honey i just tell people "we working on it" with a smile... so i guess that'll be my answer he says it makes them wonder hmmmm  

Have a good one ladies still need to catch up but been trying to stay busy and still working out in my mind how i really feel about this whole FET matter!   the frosties  warm up nicely and continue to enjoy the weather


----------



## Mrs Rock

Hello lovelies

Gone a bit quiet on here.  I know there are a few of us cycling at the mo - JBox, Kat, me, anyone else?  Is this the quiet that develops when we want to stop ourselves talking about tx and hoping too much?

Well I have had scan this morning and everything looks ok.  But my cycle seemes to have speeded up in the past few months and has thrown my immune tx timetable out.  Looks like I will have FET about 5 days earlier than I thought so not sure whether to have the 2nd intralipid that was planned or not.  Just about to ring round pharmacies to see where I can get clex and pred cheapest.  This TTC is like a full time job sometimes!

How was everyone's weekend?  I had a nice one at home with DH after my manic trip away last weekend.  We went for a lovely walk in the middle of the countryside on Sunday and you won't believe this - managed to bump into a heavily pregnant woman miles from anywhere with no one else around   .  They definitely stalk me!  She and her partner stopped to let us by on a very narrow foorpath and they were both simpering and pointing to the gigantic bump and saying "Sorry we are so slow, we're a bit overburdened as you can see!".  Er, yes, we can see, and many thanks for pointing it out!!

One nice thing that has happened recently though is that I went to a meet up of FFs in Bromley near where I live last week and really enjoyed the chance to talk to other ladies who understand IF.  They were mostly on their first cycle and I was the person who'd done the most txs of course, but it was still good to feel like we were all in the same boat and feel kind of 'normal' for a while, if you know what I mean.  

Kat I am envious of your best mate who never says the wrong thing.  Can I steal her   ?


----------



## Nordickat

Hi everyone, 

I was concious (4 attempts and I still can't spell it lol  ) of not posting for properly for ages but see that nobody else has either really. I hope you are all OK.

I've been keeping a low profile on here just because I am mid tx and for all I don't want to talk about it on here, it has been so all consuming on this cycle that I just didn't know what else to talk about lol. Anyway 2ww for me now which does generally not phase me at all ...... seriously, what is there to say about it?! So I'm back again now.

Winegum - any news on your results?

VW - are you home yet? I hope your trip was/is fruitful.

MrsRock - I know what you mean, I could get a hobby is it wasn't for the time stealing IVF thing!

JBox   Thinking of you   

JBT - I'm still thinking that waiting for your FET is the best option. It gives the clinic time to iron out any issues with their new gear (I refused to the the first after my clinic moved and I wanted them to prove everything still worked before they got hold of my eggs!), and it gives you more time to work on the PMA    

Kitten - all this heartache does bring us closer to our DHs doesn't it. I'm glad he puts a smile on your face even when the bad news comes in.

Billanbong - I'm just outside Oslo which is significantly less sunny than Sheffield right now so I'll be with you in about 4 hours if thats OK  

Wobs, Han and any sneaky lurkers  -   to you.

Can I bore you about my bees  They arrived! And they are fab ...... if not a litel scary   . The weather has been ribbish and DH has gone away so we had to mess with the bees during bad weather. Top tip: don't mess with bees when all 50000 of them are home sheltering from the rain lol. We survived though, although we did kill few yesterday which upset me a little bit  but we won't make the same mistake again. I will need all your addresses in Autumn so I can send you some honey  

Well, massive tender to write for Friday (even have to work tomorrows bank holiday) so I had better at least make a start on it.

Love to you all, 
Katxxx


----------



## Han72

Hi all

Mrs R - congrats on a fab weekend hon  

Oh Kat - that sounds fantastic, proper organic honey from your bees, yes please (ooh I'm a poet and I didn't know it   )  Sorry that you lost a few (did they sting you? Owowowowwwww  )

Hi everyone else  

apologies in advance for such a complete me post but my weekend wasn't so great as I had a total meltdown, getting the wrong end of the stick of posts on here, crying, chucking stuff / screaming I hate you at DH in the street no less...  On reflection I think AF may be on her way and also I was reading posts from people who got their BFPs about the same time I got mine last year and I think that's what sent me over the edge. It's weird cos it's totally subconscious. I read their posts and think "how fantastic" and then the next day I feel absolutely devastated   but I never make the connection at the time cos it's not an immediate reaction   

After much angst we (or I as DH has given up hope of success) have decided to do one last own egg attempt at the ARGC.  I deleted my ridiculously long and depressing history over the weekend but we've had a couple of fresh and one frozen attempt there which led to 2 BFN's and a chemical.  It's bloody expensive but I don't trust anyone else to do the stims properly. Noone else monitors like they do (bloods everyday, scans every few days) and I don't want another debacle like my last fresh attempt here in France which was cancelled due to a cyst. The ARGC would have spotted it sooner and done something about it rather than letting me shoot up the damn stims for however many days only to be cancelled before collection.

Thing is with 9 fresh attempts (8 oe, 1 de) and only 1 chemical (OE FET) and a m/c at around 7 weeks (DE) am I completely barmy to be trying again with OE now   I mean hormonally everything looks normal, I produce an average of 8 eggs (albeit on the highest dose of stims) and we get normal fert rates but the buggers just refuse to stick for some reason    I'm hoping that this pentoxifylline/Vit E tx that my French doc has come up with will fix the implantation problem and this time will finally be our time     Oddly she found that although blood flow was normal, my womb lining was poor on day 21 of a dummy cycle so I'm wondering if it wasn't the viagra for womb lining that helped achieve the BFP on the DE attempt, rather than just the fact that it was someone else's eggs. Or is that just wishful thinking 

Sorry for the me post again just needed to get that out there....

Love to all!
xxx


----------



## Mrs Rock

Oh dear Han massive    to you.

I was a narky knickers myself on here yesterday.  It happens to the best of us honestly   

You're not barmy to have another go.  You've got to do what you need to do and you'll know when it's time for you to stop.  If this FET doesn't work I'm planning on moving to ARGC myself, got 1st consult 8th June and hoping to monitor in June and cycle in July.  We could be cycle buddies, go on, you know you want to!

I understand that former cycle buddies' posts can be upsetting.  Sometimes I see with horror that people I cycled with in the past have now had their babies and are starting tx again for number 2.  They will never know quite how hard it is to be in our shoes.  

Kat - how brave are you with the bees!!!!


----------



## Han72

Jaysus I can't believe I forgot to say a quiet congrats on being PUPO Ms Kittykat Shhh      

Mrs R - I don't think I'll be ready in time for that unfortunately, I need to do at least 3 months on the french doc's miracle tx before I can go again. And of course she hasn't given me a scrip and is now saying I need to see the referring gyno to get hold of it... FFS  ! Why didn't she tell me that in the first place, here I am like an idiot waiting for it to come in the damn post so I've wasted a couple of weeks already 

What point in your cycle will you be when you go to the argybargy for your initial appy If it's around day one or day 21 then you can start the monitoring cycle from that point... 

xxx
PS PMSL at "narky knickers"    Yep that was me yesterday all right!


----------



## Nordickat

No stings Han thankfully although that may be down to my superior skills with the smoke pistol ..... no chance of them getting to me. They are actually quite calming MrsRock and they are so clever I can't help but admire them. 

Han - you could always try adding melatonin to your drug mix. There is only one study to say it helps egg quality but it might be worth a try. Nothing to lose and no, I don't think you are barmy at all.


----------



## Han72

Oh bless you NK, I'm already on it!  But I think if I take anything else I'm gonna start rattling! I went to the states and stocked up so now I'm on
2 x 25 mg DHEA
1 high strength fish oil
melatonin  
echinacea 
Coq10
pregnacare
Vit D

I also sporadically take high dose vitamin C as I'm prone to colds and chest infections. I tried Osteocare calcium supps as my nails are breaking all over the shop but the tablets are really hard to swallow. Weird cos the fish oil ones are even bigger but I can swallow those just fine - the osteocare just gets stuck in my throat. I think it's cos they're not coated...  

And now I'm going to be adding Vit E and pentythingummibob! My bathroom looks like the stock room at Holland & bloody Barratts   

xxx


----------



## JBox

hello girlies, 
it has been awfully quiet on here for a few days. time to stir it up a bit i think

lots of hellos to everyone, but just a few that i must must must just write to personally. 

JBT - i think eveyrone is right about your FET. you want to wait til everything is in the right place not rush it, and i am hoping that june just might be your month ( not too long to wait now) - sending love. 

Mrs Rock - you did make me laff about the preggie women following you around, and bumping into one in the middle of nowhere. welcome to my life!!! wanted to ask you how your tests etc are going with Dr G and are you doing anything different this cycle?
Also, sorry, please dont think me thick ( well you can if you like ) but i have read, and re read it and i still dont get it, whats"narky knickers"?!!!

Nordikat - big big big       not saying anything more.... xxxx

Han, you absolutely must go with what you feel is right. i dont think you are mad ( look at my history!!!!!!) but i think the fact that you have had a pregnancy and that you have chem pregnancies, shows hope. you mustnt give up just yet. do this cycle and see what happens, and take all the drugs, including the viagra coz maybe that was your missing link....

Eveyrone else, windgum, kitten, wobs, billabong and anoyone else, big big big hugs
xxxx


----------



## Nordickat

I'm feeling very small today. I think I've finally broken   Today is our national day and its no place to be if you are an infertile, childless immigrant. There is a big street party later which I can't go to and have people staring and wondering why I have no children, but I do have to listen to it since I have so much work to do that I am tied to my laptop all day. DH is away so I'm trying to walk the dog for 3 hours a day, feed the chickens, check the bees and remember to feed myself and also write a stupid tender that makes me cry as soon as I think about it. I just can't do it and I don't know what I'm supposed to do about it. Poor pupster is getting so frustrated that he gets no play time (I'm too tired and too stressed) so then when we are out he pulls like crazy which upsets me even more. Normal people relax after et, but not me, I shake my poor bean to death and get so stressed that I have probably wasted all that energy and messed it up already. I don't want to play this game any more, I just want to be a normal person   Now pupster is even more upset because I'm crying. 

Sorry, I just needed to get that off my chest and I didn't know where else to go and  I know its unncessarily woe is me. I have to write a darft of this tender by the end of today and I just don't know where to start and I can't get any help because its bank holiday so I guess I just have to buck my ideas up and get on with it. You know when you get yourself into such a state though that you just don't know where the beginning is ..... well thats me  

Happy May 17th!
Katxxx


----------



## JBox

kat darling... babe 
National / shmational day. who cares? if you dont feel like celebrating and being out in the street with all your neighbours then don't! i remember about a year ago after i had just had another failed treatment, all our neighbours took their garden chairs out onto the street one lovely evening and were sitting hanging out in a sort of un planned street party (we live in a dead end street in a very quiet neighbourhood). I remember i took my dog for a walk and when i came back there they all were, like the bloomin waltons, adults laughing without a care in the world, kids barefoot playing together and eating ice creams! i felt so out of place, because i too am an immigrant and haven't got the familiar background of growing up here, and also because i was feeling so inadequate, infertile, depressed and the last thing I wanted to do was hang out making small talk. They all shouted 'come join us, grab a chair' but I made some ridiculous excuse about having to get in and scarpered pretty quick.
My DH who is very sociable and outgoing and a pretty damn nice guy went out and sat with them, coz I made him, I didn’t want to look like the snobby English couple at the end of the street! I don’t think any of my neighbours see me as any different to them. In fact I am pretty sure they all know that I am struggling to get pregnant, a couple of them know about my m/cs but they don’t mention it and to be honest, I don’t actually give a ****e what they think coz they are just that – my neighbours!!!! They are all very nice, but they aren’t my friends, and if they think poor me or what a shame and pity me, then they are the ones who have the problem. But to be honest Kat I really don’t reckon they see you as " an infertile / childless immigrant" – I think that is just the state of mind you are in at the moment darling, i am pretty certain that they don't think of you as anything more than the nice couple who live down their street. Listen,  if you are not feeling up to it and with dh away i absolutely think you should stay in, finish your tender and relax in front of the tv with a big bottle of non alcoholic fizz. Do not go if its going to make you feel crappy or sad ok??!

Now, as for jogging the bean around a bit, i so relate to that honey. my gawd, i think every single transfer i have had done, i have been up and out the next day, either back to work or running around supermarkets, doing ridiculous play dates in soft play areas with my little one chasing her up ropes and climbing walls…. I even remember one 2ww not so long ago, going with a group of friends cycling round this bird lake up in the mountains – I mean is that normal?
i read about all these women on here who do NOTHING on the 2ww, but sit watch telly and read, but I have always had this belief that you should try to carry on as normal and not stop your life. After all most women don't even know they are pregnant when they are pregnant and travel, climb mountains, horse ride, smoke take drugs etc etc.. I think there is a happy medium, and taking your dog for a walk and doing normal everyday activities is ok… just don’t stress out about doing them.!

DH will be back tomorrow right? So just enjoy some me time for one more day. Be kind to yourself Kat. You deserve it and especially right now. Your bees, chickens, dog and dh (and us) need you and they want you happy. 

Thinking of you darling and please pm if you want. 
xxxxxx


----------



## Nordickat

I just came back to appologise for my outburst and say I feel better after my tears, but you made me cry all over again. Time to walk away from work for a bit I think. I think it is work that is getting to me more than anything. I'm out of my depth and people think I'm way cleverer than I am. The sun is out so maybe a hot chocolate out there will help.
Thanks JBox, I'm not sure where I'd be without this thread.


----------



## Winegum

Darling Kat

Don't give into it.  Be determined to keep your head above water.  Enjoy your hot choc, then come back, sit down and start your tender from the beginning.  Work through it remembering that you can only do as much as you know and have been trained.  I know there is very little worse than having something to do that makes you feel sick when you already feel rubbish but remember as well that you are a fabulous loved and needed individual.  You will get through today.  As for shaking your bean around, I too have always gone back to work and carried on, taking my clinics advice to not do something I would later regret, so as long as you are not bungy jumping, water skiing, jumping off a diving board, if your bean is staying, it is staying.  Much love xxx


----------



## kitten77

will be back to reply properly tomorrow but i didnt want to go until i gave this to kat.....

              - we are always here to sound off to.


----------



## Mrs Rock

'Lo ladies

Kat I hope you are having a better day today and the work is feeling more under control.  Try not to worry about jogging the embies about, my clinic say lead life as normal after ET except don't go sky diving.  Another lovely FF I talk to has just got her BFP after spending a week playing cricket in the sun during her 5 year old's school holidays.  The day before I got my BFP I was doing pilates and walking up hills.  I was worried though, I won't lie and say I wasn't cos it's natural to feel like we have precious cargo after all we go through to get it.  

Han I *think* that by the ARGC appt on 8 June I hopefully will be in day 1-5 of my cycle assuming this FET doesn't work.  But hard to exactly know.  I hope we won't end up wasting a month as am NOT good with waiting.  Shame your doc is messing you around - I know that feeling.

JBox "narky knickers" means bad tempered!  No?  Maybe it's a Scouse-ism   

Am a bit gutted to find out that Boots seem to be giving out any amount of Clexane for £53 and my px was only for 2 weeks' worth.  If I'd known I'd have asked for more but it's just too much hassle to get back to Dr Gorgy for another one.  

Hi Kitten, Winegum, Wobs, Billabong, and everybody else


----------



## Nordickat

Hello! I always feel so humble coming on this thread. Thanks for all your kind words as always. 

I'm just having a few work issues and I am being bullied into stuff now and there now seems to be some snitching behind my back ....... not everyone is clever not to be caught out telling tales. Ho hum, the world is full of idiots. Anyway, bigger fish to fry as I have OHSS now which is pretty impressive after just 9 eggs and being nearly 37  . Unfortunately it is making me a pushover at work because I just can't be arsed with big egos interferring in my projects.

Winegum - I saw your new signature. Do you have plan of action now?

JBox - talk to you tomorrow I promise. I just need some sleep.

 to you all, Katxxx.


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Hi Ladies

I know I have been away for awhile. Kat      please take care of yourself with that OHSS drink lots of water you don't want it to get worse, remember what happened to me!

I had a sucky day today, not even sure why... just felt really down and work doesn't really help the situation... 

As for the FET thanks for the support, thoughts and reasoning... I guess i agree with all of you that it is better to wait for the ideal time... just waiting on AF to arrive so that the doctor can do a scan to take a look at the lining and hope that is ok just in case we can go ahead with FET... Although I am having second thoughts on doing it right now but that is just me being scared of the thawing process...

Will come back on on the weekend, we have a holiday on Monday so we have a long weekend to look forward to!    to all


----------



## kitten77

hi everyone, can i join you all on the feeling down.

got our follow up appointment this avo from our last failed tx in march but dont know how i feel about it, as there is nothing more they can say. he doesnt agree with immune testing (even tho i was on the steriods etc just in case i had anything wrong!!!) and thinks its a waste of money.  but hang on surely 6 times of bad luck i need to look at other avenues? so dont even know wether to bring that subject up or not now. 

i worry he will say we should just give up, i dont know if i could handle that to be honest, if he told us that i think i would crack.  im so scared. do you think he will? 

sorry for the me post, been having bad time of it lately, as not only all that but when i was trimming my cat 2 days ago i nicked her....this nick kept splitting! she gone into the vets, had to have a op to stich it back up, while under she had all her teeth out as they were bad (btw, this cat is adopted and has been living in our garden for 3 years until the snow came and i couldnt have her out in the cold so took her in) so its not me not looking after her.....anyway, so she has no teeth, she has stiiches and we are £246 out of pocket!!!!!!!! which has came out of our next tx savings! arggh. all from me trying to care for her.  but think silver lining is that her teeth are out and she isnt in any pain at all now - and her breath dont smell!!!! 

anyway, sorry for me post. 

kat - DRINK!!! dont let it get any worse!


----------



## JBox

Hey Kitten, 
I am sorry that you are feeling so down darling. 
I really do not believe in "just bad luck" after so many failed treatments and I get so aggravated with the view that "if you keep trying eventually it will happen"... My Dr is very much of that opinion, and that its all about the state of my eggs which apparently are crap and the reason why we have moved onto using a donor. 
So last consultation, really angry and disappointed, I decided to do my own research mainly on this thread, and by reading Dr Beers book . I read all the immune girls posts and slightly obsessed over all their signatures! I just wasn’t prepared to hear one more time, "oh its just not your time, have some patience, hang in there, it will happen", and  so i decided to take matters into my own hands...My Dh didn’t know what had happened to me when we sat down. There I was armed with questions and information , statistics and knowledge  - I was literally a doctors worst nightmare  - but I did not let up until I had said and asked what I wanted to. I just wanted answers and even though he couldn’t give them to me, I demanded a response to my queries and I wasn’t going to allow him to fob me off with all the “bad luck” ****** ! And for the first time in 3 years, i felt that i had taken control of my destiny.
My Dr does not believe in any of these immune treatments, and i am unable to do intralipids or LIT here coz they just don’t have it anywhere, so I am really just going with the basic basic basic meds ( clexane, preds, prog, folic acid, prog x 2). After some persuasion, he agreed to give me the prescriptions, but he totally disses it!  I have no idea if its going to work.. only time will tell, but for once I feel more in control and I can honestly say I have done everything I can to help myself. 
The immune tests are an expensive process. I am not going to lie. All the tests, the extra meds, the consultation fees builds up. But if just tweaking your meds, or adding a bit of asprin, or some extra steroids is the answer or a couple of drips, then who cares?
Darling, I have been where you are so many times - going for yet another consultation to hear yet the same thing. If you go in, demanding answers, demanding why it keeps happening, what you can do differently, what meds you can change, up, lower, if more blood tests need doing, scans, and don’t go away until you feel like you have got the answers you want, you might feel better about this all and a bit more positive towards a new treatment. Failing that, have you thought about changing doctors? Clinics?
Sending you huge huge huge amounts of hugs for today. hope it goes well.  
(oh and your generosity to the cat overwhelms me – I am no cat lover!!!) xx


----------



## wobs

Hi ladies

phew been a long week

Kitten   hope your appointment was ok.
Have you been at the same clinic all the time?
I think we have poss changed too many times   but each time I feel we have moved further on in our journey.  Hoping to go to the ARGC if they'll take us & def want to have the level 2 immunes done, though still not sure how I feel about ivig/lit etc... But need to have the tests to feel I have tried everything if that makes sense.

Got to go to bed.so tired

hi everyone, sorry for lack of personals
JBT - enjoy your long weekend!

Wobs


----------



## billabong

Nordikat- Hope you are doing well on the 2WW! We all know hoe difficult it can be, sending you lots of    
Your bees sound great, it is something I have thought about in the past. I guess you don't realise how clever they really are. 
Have you had a blastocyst transfered, if so well done! So you are in Oslo, cool, you will have to pop over when you have your baby to meet mine   It will happen!!  

Mrs Rock- Good luck with TX  

Han72- I think that if you have the mental energy to try again then you go for it. I had my appointment the other day for after my failled cycle and I asked the same question to the doctor.."how long do we keep trying?" She is great and said that as long as we could and we get embryos then there is always a chance. So good luck hun!

JTB- Hugs  

Jamaica- Good luck with FET, at least it will be where it belongs!  

Kitten- Arhh what a nice thing you did for the cat...and used your TX money too. Hopefully you will only need the one lot of Tx money because you will get your BFP!     Like I have just said to Han keep strong and reading through you have got to blastocyst too! 

AFM- I had my doctors appointment and I am ready to start again at the end of June. They have recommended that we try ICSI after our last attempt. I still can't get my head around after the first 2 IVFs we had 90% fertilisation and then on this 3rd attempt only 1 fertilised out of the 9 eggs??   I guess I have to take their advice..and it is almost an extra £1000 on top  
I just can't wait to go again, the waiting to start I find is awful. I am starting to feel like my DH is getting fed up now. It is the thoughts of 'what if it doesn't work?' But I know we can't think like that and we have to be positive   A thing that so many people take for granted....it is just so not fair  

Sending lots of love and      to vw22, waikiki, wobs, winegum and anyone I may have missed xxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## pinkpixie

HI Ladies can i join??  Have just had my failed 5th attempt feel like giving up and can feel myself turning bitter and twisted!!!


Kitten which hospital are you with??  St Marys in Manchester where the same with us and i wanted to scream everytime they say its just down too luck.  We have ended up going to Care for immune testing and they found quite a lot wrong so seems to have been worth it.


JBox good for you it must have felt good to have some sort of control.


hi to everyone else
x
h


----------



## waikiki

Hello ladies,

Sorry that I've been awol again for a little while...

Welcome pinkpixie - sorry to hear about your recent tx and know how hard it is to stay positive and keep trying.   

I'm afraid I can't catch up with everyone's news, but wanted to send a big hug to kitten - it's so frustrating when doctors dismiss immune treatment but don't offer any other alternatives to try.  As much as they think it may be down to bad luck, I think they really should try to understand that from our perspective we need to be trying something new each time to feel as if we are (slightly) in control.  As for your pussy cat, you are a lovely, kind person to have taken her in - I hope that even though her vets bill came out of your tx fund, that she will give you some comfort in return.  I have 2 cats and I swear they know when I'm having a bad day and just come up and snuggle next to me, it always makes things seem a little bit better.  

Also want to send     to Kat.  I hope that the OHSS has subsided now and I'm sorry that you've been having such a difficult time lately.  It sounds like you have a lot to deal with on top of tx and god knows that can be hard enough all on its own.  We've all had those moments where we feel that there is a neon sign above our head pointing out that we are the infertile one in a sea of happy, fertile families but even I have to accept when I'm feeling more rational, that probably nobody else really gives my childless status that much thought.  On the bad days though it is a very lonely place to be...but just remember that we are all here for you, because we have all been to that lonely place too.    

Han - I don't think you're barmy for trying with OE again hun.  Even though I found the decision to switch to DE for our last cycle soooooo hard, and was proud of myself when I thought I'd finally accepted it, as soon as the DE cycle didn't work for me but did for my donor, my first thought was "ha, the doctors were wrong, it wasn't my eggs after all...."  I'm in a slightly different situation from you in that I do have poor ovarian reserve (I get 4 eggs on average, best I ever got was 7) but always got good  fert rates and good quality embies.  I also have immune issues, which I have had treatment for, but still the blighters don't stick.  So to be honest I am now so confused as to what my real problem might be that I just don't know what to do any more....but a little voice in my head keeps saying you're only 34, you must still have a few good eggs left....tbh the little voice is starting to get on my wick now, but I can't ignore it.  So I say good for you, give it another go with OE and I     that it'll be the one for you.

As for me, feeling quite proud of myself for going to the first of my nieces' birthday parties in over 4 years today.  The last party I went to was my other niece's 2nd birthday party where I had to stare at my SIL's pg belly all day long, felt like a fraud amongst all the 'real mummies' and all but burst into tears every time I looked at my adorable niece who looks so like me, but isn't mine....4.5 years on and it was much better today.  Had a little waver when she blew out her candles, just wondering if I'd ever see my child do that, but other than that it was all OK, which is a big step forward for me.

I also had my first counselling session last week, a bit early to say how helpful it will be, but at least I am actually doing it now instead of just thinking about it as I have been for the past 2 years.

Anyway, that's enough for me now other than to say   to Wobs, Billabong, Jbox, Winegum, Mrs Rock, JBT, VW and anyone else I've missed.

 waikiki


----------



## wobs

Hi
just popping on to say hi to everyone and sending you all lots of   
IF is soooo hard isn't it!
School is silly at the moment; just leaving to go in now.  Roll on half term next week!! Will do personals them - promise!
wobs


----------



## JBox

Welcome PinkPixie - I am sorry for the unfortunate circumstances you are here, but you are among the best women on this site!!!

Waikiki, your post did make me smile and nod at the same time. Smile coz your humour is so dry, i love it, and nod coz i so relate to what you are saying re the OE / DE thing and the drs saying its down to crap eggs / ovarian reserve ( well done by the way for getting 4 eggs, i never got more than 2!!) and when the donor cycle didnt work first time having the "told you so" attitude to my dr. 

Anyway, i am feeling very low today. I am not a sympton spotter and dont want to discuss my 2ww here, (kat ill talk to you later  - me and kat testing on the same day )- but i feel nothing. NOTHING. no symptons at all except i have woken up today with a very sore back, typical of my af and a dull ache down there.... so yet again, i am feeling that i am towards the end of yet another negative cycle. Really trying not to get down about it, coz after all, i never expected it work anyway, but its still so flippin hard. 

love to you all. hope you are all well and have a good week.
xxx


----------



## Nordickat

I just have to correct JBox. We are not testing on the same day because I'm never ever testing. Being PUPO is better than a BFN so I'm just going to stay that way forever   . 

Pinkpixie - of course you can join us, although I'm sad you have to   It is hard not to just lie down and give up but somehow we always find a little bit more strength tucked away somewhere and try again. This thread is wonderful for helping find that strength and we all know its not as simple as 'oh well, just bad luck, it'll work next time for sure'. I hope this is a safe place for you to say what you like knowing somebody understands   

JBox -   There is no such thing as a symptom of pg or a sign of af during tx. Although I do know how upsetting is it to feel nothing at all. I have found a way around that though and spent a good long while last night poking, prodding and jiggling my boobs to make them hurt so I couldn't be upset about them not hurting   Hang in there JBox   

Wobs   don't work to hard this week 

Waikiki - well done you  I'm proud of you too. And well done on going to the counsellor. I hope it helps in some way.

Billabong -   it won't work if you don't try. ICSI might just be the answer.

Kitten - how was your followup? I hope it was better than you were expecting and that something positive came from it.   

JBT, VW, Mrs Rock and winegum - I hope you are all OK and that the sun is shining on you   

AFM - the OHSS is much better which is clearly bad news for a BFP but I'm in denial. Being in denial is making me quite upbeat. I'm posting quite a lot on my buddy thread and I'm finding it therapeutic. I don't post about my ****ty days at all and just post positive stuff and I seem to be successfully brainwashing myself  . And this afternoon I'm going to be brave like Waikiki and go and see my friend and her new baby. As soon as babies come into peoples lives I walk out of their lives so I haven't been in close contact with a baby in over 3 years   . Its about time I stopped being so silly I think and just got on with it. My friend knows my history so I think it'll be OK and I can just tell her if it gets too much. I'm a bit scared of how it will feel but then part of me thinks that maybe the anticipation will be way worse than the actual event .......... I hope.

Anyway, lots of love to you all, 
Katxxx


----------



## kitten77

hello all, hope you had a good weekend.

Pink Pixie - welcome and im sorry you are here, but come join us and im sure we can help in some way! 

nordickat -    on the poking boobs thing! and hope your 'af' signs are not af signs at all. i have everything crossed for you and jbox.

waki, billabong, Mrs rock, winegum, wobs - hello to all and any i have missed.

AFM - well my follow up appiontment.....the one on the 19th May at 4pm with mr walker.........19th APRIL!!!!!! arggh.  missed it by a month.  i have never ever ever done that before, so one month late! so now have a fitted in appointment with him tomorrow morning - so that will be rushed.  but dont know what he is going to say, im going more for closure to be honest, oh and to ask that my bum is still numb from the injections of progestrone and is this right!?

busy at work, so will pop back later if i can. xx


----------



## Nordickat

Kitten - good luck for tomorrow


----------



## Nordickat

Kitten - I hope you got on OK today?

Han - where did you get your DHEA from? Is there good and bad stuff?

 to all, 
Katxxx


----------



## JBox

Kat...!!!!!


----------



## Nordickat

sorry


----------



## Mrs Rock

What??


----------



## Winegum

Just peeing myself at the length of the last three posts compared to our usual long juicy posts - 3 x one worders in a row (yes, btw, what's that about?)  Ladies, I do miss you.  I'm being a crap FF at the mo but other things are eating into my FF time, not least my immune diagnosis and tx: learning it, planning it etc.  Also work is demanding a lot of me atm.  I AM lurking and reading posts with interest.  I know I am overdue for a long post, and also to catch you up on what I've been up to. As you'll see, my signature has grown a bit since my appointment with DR G    (Kitten, if you want pm me about seeing Dr G or similar immunologist. JBox has recently seen him too.)  Dare I say it, I hope this thread will be in celebratory mood soon   So, just wanted to say that I think about you all  more than my lack of correspondence indicates.


Welcome to pinkpixie   


Big love to all
WInegum xxx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Hello pinkpixie so sorryy to hear your news     

Ladies so sorry i have been so quite but just haven't been feeling so hot... but been thinking about all of you and reading quietly behind the scenes. 

Kat and JBox fingers crossed and     hard!

Was a bit ****** with hubby yesterday he thinks I am obsessed with this whole baby thing! argh so I will do what I always do and that;s just not to say anything to him about my feelings etc. so you all will just have to suffer through it all  

Anyway seems I won't be doing the FET till September/October either, first i haven't heard from my doctor or embryologist second my step son may not be able to come home for the summer (don't want any of you to take this the wrong way but I am not at all sorry) so we have to travel to the states he lives in the same state as my sister so we would stay with her for a couple weeks so that means travel which my doctor won;t approve is if i do do the transfer... and lastly financially if we have to travel then that in itself is a lot...

Really had a yucky week last week and then my friend who just had a baby and i am the god mother of came by one evening and although it was nice to see my god daughter it was still very hard...   especially we could have had babies about the same time as i was doing a tx at the time she was pregnant.

Sorry for the me post but just feeling very low and to have my dumb dumb husband say something like that just ticked me off! 

   to all....


----------



## Nordickat

the short posts were because JBox thought I shouldn't be planning my next tx before officially failing my current one, so I shouldn't have been asking about DHEA. Anyway, I have now officially failed tx#8 so I can legitimately wonder about what to do next     

 JBT

Looking forward to hearing from you soon Winegum

 and   JBox


----------



## billabong

Nordikat- So so sorry to hear that, I had everything crossed for you    There are no words that will make it better but please try and be strong and have a little time for you and DH xxxxx

Will do personals later, love   to everyone xxxx


----------



## waikiki

I'm so sorry Kat - sending some big hugs your way.


----------



## Mrs Rock

Kat, I'm really so sorry   .  Nothing makes it better I know, but I am thinking of you.  I don't quite agree with your signature you know, it might be worth another DIVF before you close the door.  But I can understand that you don't want to think about going through all that again right now. Many hugs, honey.

Pink Pixie welcome to the thread

JBox, has your OTD been and gone?


----------



## JBox

kat my sweet        you know what i think.....

No Mrs. Rock, im still hanging on here. This isnt the place for it, but sinc you asked...i have such bad cramps today, shooting pains all down my legs and my back is so painful that actually i am propped up by pillows on the sofa right now. This is all very typical of my AF. So im not feeling at all hopeful 

everyone else, hope you are ok.. kitten how did your appt go with consultant?

Winegum, what did you think of Mr. G?

Big love x


----------



## Mrs Rock

Sorry to hear how you are feeling JBox   .  Isn't this exactly the place though?   


Kitten - want to hear about your appointment, what did they have to say honey?

Winegum, Wobs, Waikiki, hi there


----------



## Nordickat

Its OK Mrs Rock, I've not quit yet. I just need to wallow first but we will go again. We have another round paid for already and the sperm are already on ice waiting for us.

Thanks for all your kind words but I'm fine I think.

All my prayers are with JBox now this week


----------



## Han72

Hi all

Nordickat     I'm so sorry hon. Re the DHEA, I dunno if there are good or bad types but I got mine from Biovea.fr. Interestingly I'm sure I ordered it from the UK site last time round but when I went to reorder last week, I couldn't find it on there Some people get theirs from dhea.com. I can't remember what I said about it the last time and I'm far too lazy to go back through my old posts  . But I should say it _can _completely knacker up your hormone levels so it's not to be taken lightly. And the PMT is legendary!!! But my cycles are now 26 days instead of 23, which can only be a good thing, right?! And my libido has gone berserk, dh loves it 

Jbox - gawd that sounds awful  Can't believe you go through this every month  I wonder have you ever been checked for endo? Cos that level of AF pain is FAR from normal... In any case, I'm   that this time it's the embie making it's presence felt    . Surely one of life's greatest ironies is that preg symptoms and AF symptoms are i-frickin-dentical  Anyway, hang in there, it ain't over, I haven't sung yet....  Oh and like Mrs Rock says, if this isn't the place for it then I don't know what is! 

JBT -    Are you sure there's no way to work the tx around going to the US? Where does sis live? Cos if it's on the east coast it's not gonna be a long haul flight is it? And people fly following transfer all the time! I had tx in Barbados and flew back to France pregnant FFS! (yeah ok I lost it, but that had nothing to do with the flight) And there's loads of peeps from the UK who go to Spain or Greece the US or gawd knows where and fly home during the 2 week wait... and what about those "normals" who bugger off on holiday or honeymoon and fly home preg without knowing it

Ok there were about a million other things I meant to say but I forgot it all... blame it on the brain damage. But thanks to everyone for your support, I think I'm over the wobble now and feeling a bit more positive 

xxx


----------



## Mrs Rock

Kat - very pleased to hear that.  Have a good wallow and feel better soon   

Han you make me larf!!    Can you keep quiet about the DHEA effects or my DH will be wanting me to try it, have to say I find the icky cyclogest is putting me right off at the moment!  I'm glad you are feeling a bit more chirpy, long may it last.

JBox -     

Am peeing myself about the embie thaw tomorrow and dreading the morning waiting for the call with the result.  Find it almost as bad as waiting for the call about fertilisation.  We always lose some when we do this and we only have 2 left now.  Ho hum.  Not much of a Rock atm, more like a Jelly.  Mrs Jelly, at your service


----------



## Nordickat

I'm really sorry for this post but I don't know where else to go with it   I can't talk to DH about it firstly because he doesn't know we have a BFN yet and secondly because its too emotive and frightening a subject for him, and nobody in the real world knows. I just logged onto my email with the intention of distracting myself with work and my mental health assessment reminder has come through and I've worked myself into such a state I don't know what to do. Its about the worst timing possible. I have my psych assessement first thing Monday and the the Dr followup in the afternoon. If I'm not OK then they will send me to the hospital again and I just don't want to go   and I don't know how to stop it happening. The more I think about it the more upset I get and the more upset I get the more likely I am to end up in hospital and then I go round again. I know you can't help and I know there is nothing to say. I'm just scared and I needed somebody to know. I feel like the bottom of my world has just fallen out which I know sounds stupidly melodramatic but I can't rationalise it and I just end up in a state again and DH will be back in a hour and I have to be 'normal'.  I just wanted to be back at work 100% on June 1st so that I can prove to the world that I might be a failed mum but I'm not a failed scientist and its just not going to happen. Thanks for listening and sorry   but I can at least breath again now I've let it out.


----------



## Nordickat

Mrs Rock - sorry I didn't see your post. I have everything crossed that your 2 frosties make it and are back where they belong tomorrow


----------



## Han72

Honey

why do you have to be "normal"? What the  is normal anyway?! You have just had a really crappy experience, ANYBODY would be in an emotional tailspin right now, surely the Docs must know this?

First things first. Take a deep breath hon. And another one. Slow it down and then break it down.

I don't know your DH but I can imagine you wanting to spare him the details. Thing is YOU'RE frightened and emotional now and even though you know we're all here for you, DH is the only physical person you can lean on right now, right? And I bet he'd be dying to help you but if he doesn't know what's going on, he can't can he?

Can you bring yourself to tell him about the BFN when he comes home? That is one big secret to be carrying around, that would make anyone feel anxious as hell. How about sharing that burden with him? I'm sure he's a big boy now, I bet he can take it 

And _then _maybe discuss how you're feeling about the assessment? I'm assuming you can't put the assessment off? If you can't then maybe talking with him about it might help calm that anxiety down a bit. And if you CAN put the assessment off until you've had time to process the BFN, well so much the better....

At the end of the day you've probably got a TON of hormones still swimming around your bloodstream. I don't know anyone who'd be feeling calm and in control under these circumstances and I'd be amazed if the docs weren't intelligent enough to realise that it's TEMPORARY and take this into account as far as the assessment is concerned. I have to admit I don't know a damn thing about how the system works but surely some allowances should be made under the circumstances

Take it easy chick     and whatever you do, keep talking to us, even if you don't feel able to talk to DH...

xxx


----------



## billabong

Just on my phone but wanted to wish Mrs Rock all the luck in the world for you 2 little frosties and hopefully they will snuggle in where they belong!      

Nordikat- So sorry you are going through this It is like Han said and you need to give your body some time. It would be impossible to just pick yourself up and get over it...we are human and it hurts like hell each time but we have to believe that the next time just might be the one! Sending you lots of love and


----------



## Winegum

Mrs Jelly , ive only just registered that tomorrow is a huge day for you.   wishing you all the best for this cycle.

Nordickat: Hans advice is exactly what I would offer.  My thoughts for what they are worth are: please talk to your inner self and ask it what it needs, then put yourself first by giving it to yourself.  I can almost see your head spinning - you cant know what is going to happen.  There are too many ifs.  Come back to the moment and do what Han said, break it down into bite sized chunks, take things an hour at a time setting yourself little achievable goals.  You are setting yourself massive frightening targets.  I don't like to see you using the f word (failure) about yourself.  (and i wont use it about myself either from now on) Please be kind to yourself, don't punish yourself.  I wish I could sit down with you and make you a cup of tea and give you a huge hug   

JBox thinking of you  

I'm sorry my personals are very bitty at the mo 

Love to all xxx


----------



## Winegum

Kitten: conscious I haven't said hello.  Hope you are ok


----------



## pinkpixie

Hi to everyone


Kitten how did your follow up appt go?? Missing it my a month sounds exactly like something i would do    hope it was useful and they listened to you.


Nordicatdont really know what to say but sending you lots of       


Mrs Rock how did you get on sending lots of   


JBox    that AF has stayed away


hi to everyone else this thread moves very fast will try and keep up   
xx
h


----------



## kitten77

First off, wanna say big big hugs to kat. 

I'm on my phone so only quick, I promise to be back to fill you in on my appointment. They said a lot but not a lot at same time. 

Winegum yes please if you could pm me on the info on Dr g, that would be fab.

Train nearly in London now do have to go, sorry, want to give personals, and Dr said abt dhea so will tell you abt gust to for who asked.... Sorry can't look back, think it was kat

Anyway, I'm still here but will be back later. 

Love ya all.


----------



## Nordickat

MrsRock - thinking of you today and hoping so hard that those wee babies are coming home     

Thanks for your kind words - head in the sand today as its all too frightening. I can't tell DH though, he is so stressed at work this week the last thing he needs is his wife falling apart again. It'll be fine though. I tried to rearrange the appts this morning but its not an option and the shrink reminded me she is on my side and I'm trying not to interpret that to mean anything else   

Thanks again, 
Katxxx


----------



## JBox

big hugs kat

kitten, tell us how you got on at the appt hon. Am rooting for you!

GOOOOOOOOO LUCK MRS ROCK. looking forward to good news later on.

JBT - how you doing over there? have you made any decisions re your next tx vs your travel?

Hi Han, Winegum, Waikiki, Billabong, and everyone else i missed.

Our little thread is very quiet these days, and I am missng everyone

COME BACK!!!!!!!


----------



## kitten77

Hi, on train back now, do popped on to yell u abt appointment.

It wasn't that exciting ad I knew it wouldn't be as they can't tell us why its not working. But, I asked abt immunes and Thot I would be shot down again seeing he didn't agree with yhem, but he didn't, and in fact that evening he was going to a conference abt exactly that. It's abt taking a biopsy from the walk lining to get the immunes tested from there and not the blood as will, they think, give a better result. Dh said that we would be giinne pigs if they wanted! And they said they need people like us if they did testing! 
Anyway, he said he would get back to me on wot came out of that so will wait now and will let you know. He did say that if nothing comes out of that he says fully agrees with Dr g testing.

As for the dhea, this is my personal experience only, but he mentioned that I wad on that for abt a year and plus all the supplemrnts and I had the most eggs and the best embroys out of all my tx. So he says that I should do that again on next tx. 

He said at the end that there is no reason why I should give up as all things are good. I cried for the furst time in front of him as I said that that was wot I wad worried abt and he said no way!


----------



## kitten77

Sorry for lots and lots of spelling mistakes! On phone. Let me know if nothing makes sense!


----------



## Mrs Rock

Hello lovely ladies

Kitten I think that sounds like a positive consultation overall?  It's so frustrating that he doesn't have an particular new ideas to try but I think it is great that he is open to immune testing.  Dr G can also arrange for infection and chromosome profile testing, maybe you could have this done too hopefully just to give you more peace of mind that you are trying everything there is to try.  That is bascially the route we have gone down this year.  Don't want to look back and wonder what might have happened if we'd only tried X or Y as well.

Was he ok about you being a month late though     ?


Well I wibbled and wobbled around the house all morning expecting a call from the clinic as usual to tell us the embies had perished in the thaw but it never came    Still managed to pick the obligatory row with DH on the way though which I do when I am tense and I don't seem to be able to help myself   .  Anyhow got 2 blasts on board, they really weren't very good quality after thawing but at least they are back.  Am resolutely not getting hopes up and have got ARGC appt for 8 June, OTD is 6 June


----------



## Nordickat

MrsRock - Congrats on being PUPO   On my clinic wall there is a blown up picture of 4 babies in a bath. 20 odd years ago, before rules lol, one lady had 4 embies and they were all poor quality so they put them all back ...... her quads are all graduates now apparently   . 

Kitten - It all sounds quite positive to me   

I'm too shattered from pretending that things are fine so I'm migrating back to the TV to numb my mind I think.
 everybody


----------



## waikiki

Evening ladies,

Mrs Rock - Congratulations on being PUPO!!! I loved Kats' story of the quads and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you'll be welcoming twins in around 9 months' time!  

JBox - Hope that the cramps have eased and I'm sending you lots of sticky vibes  

Kat - I'm sorry that things are getting on top of you at the moment.  I think that the others have given you some good advice, and I understand that you don't want to burden DH with all of this, but don't you think it might help you to feel stronger if you have shared this with someone?  I don't want to tell you what to do, as only you can decide what is the best way to handle this, but I personally find that sometimes I have to let it all out, even if it means falling apart, just so that I can put myself back together stronger.  Whatever you decide, we're here for you hun.    

Kitten - it's good that your dr is open to immune tx as it will be easier for you to coordinate with your IVF if all of your drs are working together.  It's also great that your dr is telling you to keep trying, because I know how heart-breaking it is when they tell you to give up or move on - when my dr told me to move on to DE I dissolved into tears on the spot.  As a matter of interest, which clinic are you at?

AFM - have got all of my tests back from Dr G now so need to figure out a treament plan before cycling again.  The good news is that my immune levels are much lower than they were a few years ago, but my NK cells, TNF-A are still a little on the high side and my LAD is low so I know Dr G will want me to have LIT (not sure about doing that again though tbh).  This time I also had infection testing and have tested positive for Strep B and Hidden C.  I think that some of you have had Hidden C - can anyone tell me how long the Anti-B treatment is likely to be?  Also does anyone know about strep B and infertility?  I have found lots of info online about the dangers of Strep B in labour, but nothing about it actually stopping you from getting pg.

So...another set of tests, another set of positives.  It seems that I have just about everything that I've ever been tested for!! I know it's good to know what I have so that it can be treated, but honestly high FSH, low AMH, sticky blood, vitamin D deficiency, High NK Cells and TNF-Alpha, Low LAD and now Hidden C and Strep B...no wonder I'm the most infertile woman on the planet!

Sorry, that was a bit wallowing wasn't it....but I know you'll forgive me a little woe is me now and again.  

 waikiki


----------



## Winegum

V quickly Waikiki - welcome to hidden c club    Me and dh have just started ABs - the usual protocol is 24 days, and retest on second af after tablets finish.  You take 1 drug on day 1, 1 drug on day 2, 1 drug on days 3-23 and one drug on day 24 (same as day 2)  I was advised not to have calcium within 2 hours of tablets as calcium can interfere with absorption.  x


----------



## Nordickat

I know I'm like some needy child at the moment but I will make it up to  you all as soon as I get out from under this cloud. I just don't know  what to do with myself and no amount of pacing the floor is helping. I  know I should find a real life friend to talk to but there are not many  left as I just walk away as soon as the become mothers. You all seem to  strong and brave and don't seem to be ruled by IF and I want to be like  that too but I don't know how. I'm painfully shy and always have been  and my ultimate aim is invisibility but I stand out like a sore thumb.  You can't be invisible when you are familyless in a country where family  is #1. The loneliness is eating away at me and soon there will be  nothing left, already I have very little to offer. How am I ever going  to tell my DH I've let him down again, it'll break his heart. You all  seem to have such strong relationships and I wish I could say the same. I  just close down and he can't get in and I know how much it hurts him  but I can't help it. I'm so scared another failure might break us for  good. Its funny, I spend half my life wishing he would leave me so I  could just curl up and die, and the other half scared he will leave  because I'm nothing without him. I know its stupid. I wasn't ready for  this cycle and now I'm paying the price. I don't think I have the  strength to get through this. I'm so frightened that this is it. That  I'll feel like this everyday for the next 40 years. How do you get out  of bed each day when you know its going to be just the same as  yesterday? And how do you change it and make tomorrow different?


----------



## pinkpixie

Kat you dont have to make it up to us we are all here for you.  My heart goes out to you i think this is the hardest thing in the world to go through and please dont think you are alone.  Do you think sometimes you are trying to push your DH away??  Did i read right that you have a counsellor can you talk to her about how you feel?? I know have days when it all seems so pointless and my IF is all i think about if feels sometimes that we are just surviving instead of living.  Sorry i really dont know what to say to help just want to send you lots of


----------



## Winegum

Kitten: positive consult, good news, will pm you about dr g thus weekend.  Anything in particular you want to know?

Mrs Rock (sounding less jelly like) congrats on your blasts LOL at the obligatory row, you can almost schedule it can't you - we are the same

Nordickat: we are no different from you, we just seem strong and seem to have good relationships because you feel like you dont.  It will only be like thus fir the next forty years if you want it to be.  Once you have emerged from this, you will remember that we all have a choice as to how we live our lives.  Your dh would have gone by now if he'd wanted to.  You are pushing him away I think and are surprised he us staying put.  Don't forget he married you only because you are you.  I think you are focussing too much on what uou think other people think when you should be developing an I don't give a s*** attitude and focussing on yourself - ok? Be kind to yourself. 

Everyone, i have a free weekend, will post. Xxx


----------



## waikiki

Winegum - thanks for the info on the hidden C treatment, looks like it will be several months before I can cycle again then.  

Kat - as Winegum says, we are no different from you and we all feel like you do.  Some of the time we tuck it away and gloss over it and sometimes it all gets too much and we have to let it out. Some of my friends who know what I have gone through say that I am brave but I'm not, I'm just doing what I have to do to survive this.  And often it does feel like that is all I'm doing...surviving, not living.  Most of the time other people probably think that I'm a reasonably happy person, but that's just because the pain I feel is so deep that I just don' t have the energy to share it with them.  If they could see my soul they would realise that emotionally I have been done over with a baseball bat many times.

What I'm saying hun is that we have all felt like you, so don't think that you are being needy.  Please also don't talk about letting your DH down - I know it's easy to blame yourself when tx fails, but it is NOT your fault.  It took me a long time to realise that and now that I do, I spend a lot of time thinking about how it isn't fair that this has happened to me, which may not also be very productive, but at least it is better than beating myself up over something that I cannot control.

Keep talking to us hun, we're all here for you and we'll do our best to help you out of this.

   waikiki


----------



## Han72

Hi all

Kat darling -     



pinkpixie said:


> Kat you dont have to make it up to us we are all here for you. My heart goes out to you i think this is the hardest thing in the world to go through and please dont think you are alone.





Winegum said:


> Nordickat: we are no different from you, we just seem strong and seem to have good relationships because you feel like you dont.


YEAH! Whut they sed!!! And let's just clear up one other thing - you haven't let your DH, yourself or anyone else down. You haven't!!! Did you stick your head up your hoo hah at some point during the 2ww and say "HEY EMBIE!!! DON'T STICK!!!" Did you No? I didn't think so! None of this is your fault. It isn't anyone's fault, it just... is. It's crap and painful and messes with your head but it ain't your fault.

And sod the fertile freaks surrounding you. (This is where I want to insert a smiley with 2 fingers sticking up ) I live in France and am constantly amazed at how it seems like everyone smokes like chimneys, mainlines espressos and drinks a bottle of wine with every meal and gorges soft cheese and baguettes and red meat etc etc, all the stuff that auntie Zita and her fellow guru's claim to be noxious as far as fertility is concerned, and yet France is the most fertile country in Europe  Eh?!  WTF is that all about?! And so, after all the fertility research I've done I've concluded... they're just not normal. We are! So there   

You know what? Anxiety is a real beeyatch innit? We think and rethink and overthink scenarios and the more we think about it the worse we KNOW it's going to be. And then whatever the scenario is finally happens, cos no matter what we've tried to do to avoid it, whatever it is has to happen to allow us to move on. So we've worked ourselves up into a frenzy about how bloody awful it's going to be and..... it works out ok. Maybe not perfect and we'll always wish that we hadn't had to go through that scenario and sometimes it is bloody painful when we're actually going through it. But when it's over and the dust is settles often it turns out that it wasn't nearly as bad as we thought it was going to be. And we do feel better once it's over and done with cos it's not hanging over our heads anymore. Nothing worse than trying to dodge that other shoe, the bugger always drops and clouts us in the head when we need it the least! 

The anticipation of something bloody awful is almost always about a million times worse than the actual event, whatever it may be.

I know this and yet I still faff and put things off (if you look up procrastination in a dictionary there's a photo of me and a little speech bubble saying "Nooooo I don't wanna  Anyway, why do today what you can put off til tomorrow " ) It's embarrassing and sometimes I get really angry at myself for doing it but it's part of my personality so all I can do is watch out for it and try to give myself a little shake and say "it's not going to sort itself out, I need to get a grip" And eventually I usually do. Not always but so what, I ain't perfect. Who is?!

Go easy on yourself honey. Don't forget you've also got a ton of hormones rushing around in there making it even more difficult to make decisions and get your thoughts in order. It is perfectly normal to be nervous and upset about announcing a BFN and talking to DH about it is going to be difficult. And you will both be upset. But you _will _recover, both of you. And that has to be better than stewing about it all hours of the day and night, that's not helping anyone really is it?

And hell no, this isn't going to continue for the next 40 years! OK right now, you're having a rough time and you feel crappy. But you won't always feel that way, it WILL get better. Yes, during the next 40 years there will be crap days but there'll also be good days - that's life. The thing to remember is that when you're feeling down, it's temporary. It always feels like it's never going to end, but it does. You'll see a tiny ***** of light in that deep dark hole and you keep walking (or crawling if you have to) towards it. Keep going hon. It might take a little while but you'll emerge blinking into the sunlight thinking, "bloody hell, that was rough! But now it's done! TFFT!!!"

You can do this. It's going to be hard but you _can _do it.      

Love Han
(currently blinking in the sunlight, thanks to all my fabulous fertility friends  )


----------



## Nordickat

I don't know what is worng with me, I never usually quit this easily. Thank you for having faith in me though.

Its like being in a very deep black hole, and it doesn't matter how hard I try, I just can't get out. But this time I don't seem to have the energy and I've just sat down and given up and I'm waiting for the sides to collapse and suffocate me. I'm stuck and I don't know what I'm supposed to do. When I'm outside of the the hole, I live on a tightrope and thats OK as long as I focus on where I'm going. One lapse of concentration and its game over.

But like you have all said, we're all in the same situation so there is no point in moaning about it.

Thanks again, and sorry for dumping on you.
Katxxx


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## Han72

You do know you know. It's the blasted hormones   That's what's mashing up your head and making everything seem 100 times more difficult than it would be otherwise.

No apologies necessary, and you're not moaning! You're voicing perfectly legitimate feelings of pain. Cos this is bloody painful!  My God, expecting someone never to voice any negative feelings in a situation like this is like stamping on someone's bare foot while wearing stilettos and expecting them not to scream...

Keep trying hon, you will get out of that blasted hole, just take it a step at a time       And keep talking!!! That's what this site is all about     

xxx


----------



## Nordickat

Thanks Han. DH just gave me a big telling off over the phone and doesn't think staring out of the window all day is helpful. So anyway, I've been out and hacked the hedge to pieces ...... not the neatest job ever done but it was satisfying and and DH will be pleased I've done something even if he has a lot of tidying up to do tomorrow! I have also given him permission to talk to my shrink. Being in my head is horrid but its probably much worse to spectate and not be able to do anything to help.


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## Han72

Possibly he's right... Oh I suppose he is but still, bawling at you isn't going to help much! Hey ho, they mean well I guess 

How do you feel about him talking to your doc?  Are you comfortable with that?

Glad you enjoyed the hedge hacking!  

AFM I just took the dawg out for an hour and came back with the intention of completing an application form to be an english teacher. I first started the application in 2008, how's that for procrastination


----------



## billabong

Hello

Nordikat- I think the ladies have said it all! I hope you are feeling a little better. It was so overwhelming to read your posts..and it made me sad because I have been there and I am sure the other Ladies have too, it does get better and you will be able to cope ,even though you can't see it now. You need to give your body chance to get back to normal. But the thing to remember is that you are not alone. I find it difficult to talk friends about how crap I have felt but this site has given me the chance to realise that it is normal to feel all the things we feel. Like others have said your DH is with you because he wants to be!
Hope your hedge is ok  

PinkPixie- Sorry I haven't had chance to say a big  

Waikiki- Wow you seem to have a lot of tests, I don't really know much about the ones you have had. I have had all the ones I should have had I think. PS you are not the most infertile woman on the planet   good move on getting to see a counsellor!

Kitten- Of course there is no reason For you to give up hun so glad the Doctor agreed. BTW what is DHEA?

Winegum- Sorry what is the 'c club'? I am still getting used to it all you would think I would know by now   Hope you are well x

Han- You are so wise!  

Mrs Rock- Lots of        coming your way

Sending lots of love to Jamaica, wobs, jbt, jbox, vw22 and anyone else I have missed xxxxxxxxx


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## wobs

Hi ladies

Been a busy time on here.  Sorry I haven't been able to keep up.  I feel a bit rubbish being on here when I don't have a mo to post.  However I have made it to half term in one piece just about, so will try and keep up during the hols   and catch up with personals soon

Kat    

Personals soon!!!

Wobs


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## Nordickat

Han72 said:


> AFM I just took the dawg out for an hour and came back with the intention of completing an application form to be an english teacher. I first started the application in 2008, how's that for procrastination


Han - you have to be sure about these things 

I'm OK with DH talking to the shrink actually. Its more for his benefit than mine I think. I trust my shrink completely and she will not betray me and it does mean when things get out of hand, or I ignore her calls, or tell her I'm fine and she is not convinced, then she can check with DH. And he can check with her if he is in doubt too. It sort of makes me feel safer too. Things have been very bad before but now we haav a system I know I will always be safe and DH knows it too .......... does that make sense. Also, I know she is away this week and my appt is monday morning so the chance of them speaking is pretty slim 

Hoorah for half term wobs and well done for making it through the week 

Love all round and thanks from the bottom of my heart,
 Katxxx

PS. DH is now out in re-cutting the hedge


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## jamaicababytrying

Kat big hugs my dear    Han gave great advice and I second every word she said! 

You know what one day at a time and whenever you need to vent we are here to listen even if we don't say a word... because sometimes you just need to let it all out... didn't chopping up the hedge feel good? letting out all that steam, service dh right now he has to clean up the mes hehehhe  

As usual i have been on but secretly, either don't have the time to post or just feeling too crappy to depress everyone.

So far it seems travel has won this battle, I think we will be postponing the FET, i guess it is only fair for me to go to the states with hubby to see his son I don't want to seem selfish even though I will only be going to see my family... and deep down i know my husband misses his son.

So no good news on my end and i haven;t broken it to my doc as well although i suspect he will be happy with it!

The weather has been scorching hot and summer don't even start yet... 

Hi everyone hope you ladies are fine and dandy as can be 

Oh and then another thing I am now struggling with is my weight     i need to start back my exercise routine it's the hardest thing to start but once i start i can maintain it maybe Monday yes Monday it is   Happy Sunday ladies...


----------



## Winegum

Hello lovely ladies 

I have just read back over many pages and I am enjoying a weekend when I have absolutely nothing that I have to do, so I can choose what I want to do, and after I have caught up with my FFs, I am going to close the curtains and watch a few episodes of The Wire. I hope you are all having similarly relaxing weekends.

First of all, some ramblings and responses to the general themes which permeate the thread:

Tales of feeling ostracized at social events are heartbreaking. Is it any wonder then, having experienced just one such situation that we ostracize ourselves by withdrawing from friends and family and social events in order to prevent another such occasion occurring? All of us have experienced this at one time or another and it goes hand in hand with feeling like we have become different people. Quite often I dread events, even having friends round for dinner, (so I am very slack at issuing invitations) in case something is said that might destabilize me, or in case I find myself feeling deeply inadequate after they have left, but I am usually surprised by how much I enjoy it (by the way, I am only referring to child free events!) I often complain to dh that we "never do anything", and aren't exactly the picture of the fancy free childless couple that we would like to think we are, but we talk it through and realize a) we don't feel like doing anything due to the general IF cloud we are under, b) we can't afford to do anything because all disposable income goes into the tx fund, c) our phone isn't exactly ringing off the hook - everyone has a busy life whether they have kids or not and everyone is time poor when it comes to socializing, so we come full circle and quit moaning about not having a very exciting life.....at least until the matter is brought up again.

Recently, my brother who has a gorgeous two year old who doesn't eat unless he is watching Tom and Jerry on my bro's Iphone, was heard to joke to my SIL and anyone listening "I think we'll just have to put him up for adoption". I muttered that he shouldn't say that. Of course I should have given him a lecture, but I was speechless. The world is definitely divided into the haves and the have nots, and never shall we understand each other's predicaments.

Following your chatter about ovulation prediction and cycle length, it dawned on me why I think I will never get pg. I think it is because I don't ovulate, I don't count days, there is no point (last cycle was 50 days, and I was counting because I needed AF to come for a test) and even though that is overcome with tx, I know that I will never have a natural BFP. I must admit to feeling jealous that you all have regular cycles, but in the end I felt that I had identified the main reason for my negativity, and the fact is, that it is overcome with tx, so I should stop being so hard on myself.

Reading back a few pages there has been so much support meted out on here. Lots of people have said how they love the thread and I just want to say I do too. We are bound to have a part 2 - we are already at 33 pages, but what should we call it? Any ideas? I think we have outgrown the original name - we clearly aren't doing anything wrong! I'm sure when Kitten started it she never imagined it would turn into this, so thanks for bringing us all together Kitten.

Now for a few personals:

*JBT:* What happened to your friend who you were supporting through IVF, did she get a BFP? I'm sorry you have been feeling low lately, and frustrated by having to postpone your FET. Big hugs coming your way.   

*wobs:* Have you had any more thoughts about immune tx? I guess it comes as no surprise that many on here have considered it/are doing it due to the length of time TTC. I am beginning my immune tx journey (see below) so if I can offer any advice, feel free to pm me.

*Jet:* 16 years TTC - I take my hat off to you honey.  Have you officially given up with tx or do you have a plan up your sleeve?

*vw22:* How are things going with your explorations into surrogacy? I hope you have had a positive trip. Surrogacy is the obvious answer in the face of IF and the fact that it is so contraversial is par for the course with reproductive medicine. I hope you won't worry about posting your thoughts on here as I honestly don't think anyone would find anything offensive here. Imagining not being a decent mummy is a classic self-defence thing I think. It kind of lets us off the hook, but I have had to question myself on that one and I have concluded that due to being pretty damn good at anything I set my mind to and having high personal and professional standards, I would indeed be a good mummy, so all in all, it is a weak argument for ladies like us! I followed the debate about the scratchy thing (as it became known) with interest and I saw that you said any procedure that delves into the depths of the uterus is believed to have the effect of wakening things up in there. It makes sense as to why Dr G (my immunes cons) has suggested having a hysteroscopy or saline hysterography close to my next IVF (I have never had one, due to presenting no symptoms which showed a need for one, I have only had a hysterosalpingogram) I also thought you wrote a lovely post about JBox's predicament and Nordickat's star quality.

*Nordickat: *How are you atm? I was heartened to see your humour shining through the darkness. (with ref to the hedge)  Being in denial is my default position - it's certainly much easier not having to face up to things. I could quite happily draw things out and have my next tx when I am.... oh, whoops, I'm 52, how did that happen? I'm afraid I am well past being impatient now. I had to laugh at one of your posts about IF being a hobby - it certainly does feel like that. I sometimes day dream that when (listen to me!) I get pg and get released from my clinic, I will panic about the lack of security and won't want to leave, what will I do with myself? Going back to my old sociable, confident, fun-loving self seems far to scary! (BTW, does anyone else feel like they just don't jhave any fun or laugh anymore) You know you hear stories about women giving birth who don't even know they are pg? Well I don't buy it I'm afraid - it is denial, pure and simple. They must have an inkling, which they have ignored. Feel free anyone to put me right on this! Tell me why you are a hidden C sceptic. I would like a scientists view. I only did the test because it was recommended. I nearly didn't because I thought I couldn't possibly have it having been in a faithful relationship for 17 years and having had v few partners (either of us). Miffed is an understatement.

*Billabong:* that leads me nicely onto you - the hidden c club refers to the ladies who have tested negative for Chlamydia on high vaginal swabs, but who are found to have it in a sample of their menstrual blood. A lab in Greece has developed it and has the worldwide patent on this test. The treatment is a month of antibiotics and a retest. It can affect fertility for obvious reasons but who knows how many people have had it and got pg?

*Han72*: Nice that not only do you read through our ramblings, you join in too. (lots of mods don't) Sorry things have been tough lately.

*Waikiki:* Totally get the feeling of being "past" wanting kids and love your hunger analogy! Me too - first to get married. I have one friend who has spent a good part of her twenties and the whole of her thirties single and she is now in a relationship. When the relationship was quite new, I joked with her that she would be pg before me - not that I begrudge her the slightest thing, but you wait and see! Have you had or are you going to have the scratchy thing?

*JBox:* You must know by now? You are quiet - hope you are OK. Big hugs coming your way. I related to your post about sensing a change in yourself and trying to appreciate the good things instead of mourniing the holes and gaps. I wonder if recognizing that your toddler is becoming a little girl has made you want to give her the best of you. I am like you in thinking tx will never work for me and have my mind made up, but I would still love you to prove yourself wrong.   

*Mrs Rock: *The FGA thread moves so fast. I would love to be able to do personals but I just can't manage it. There are too many ladies and I feel guilty that I don't mention everyone or sometimes miss an important event, but it just races along. So I'm glad you are here too where I can pay you some proper attention and you don't just get lost in a sea of other names! Congratulations on being PUPO. I have a link with Bromley - my mum grew up in Chislehurst and we used to visit my Nanny there and go to Bromley shopping, so I know that area a bit.

*Kitten:* I can't believe you missed your appointment by a month! I'm going to pm you some stuff later about Dr G. Hope you are OK.

*AFM:* I have completed my tests with Dr Gorgy at the Fertility Academy in London and had my results back and am beginning my tx. I have been busy with trips to London (I live in Devon) and educating myself about the theory behind this tx and also planning it. I have three main issues 
1) Chlamydia found in menstrual blood - me and dh are part way through our antibiotic course which will hopefully clear it - I have to wait 2 x cycles before a retest and am slightly worried because my cycles are so long, but I will take something to bring on my bleeds and hopefully it will work. 
2) High TNFa which basically means my environment is inflamed and aggressive rather than calm and peaceful - 2 x Humira shots prescribed, followed by a retest. I am also eating low GI and no sugar to try and help this as I also always have "yeasts" in my swabs, even though I have no symptoms of thrush. 
3) Low LAD and high DQa matches which basically means me and my dh have very similar blood proteins which may lead my body to recognise his part of an embryo as "altered self" rather than foreign but benign cells, and attack it as if it were a rogue cell of mine, and donor LIT has been recommended to increase my sensitivity to my dh. Other issues: TSH up and down so am on a low dose of thyroxine

I am doing surprisingly well on the no sugar thing which is good as I thought I would find it a real struggle. Thanks Kat and Han for diet tips. I am having my LIT tx this week. I'll have another one in 4 weeks. Then I will decide in what order to do everything else, before cycling, hopefully in Aug/Sept. I still haven't made up my mind where to cycle but I have been to a open evening at the Lister and am going to one at CRGH and I could also cycle with Dr G. I remember being completely bamboozled by the immunes stuff when I first started - so much to get your head round, but I have made the effort and I'm glad I did, as Dr G assumes you know what he is talking about and it is up to you to write everything down as you don't get a written follow up. My gp has been great and really come through for me (although he was a bit patronising which I put down to ignorance about IF) and has referred my back to my local hospital who have agreed to do karyotyping and a hysterography for me, so I have an appointment with them in July. He's also given me blood forms for retesting my TSH. Our approach to this is that we have decided to seek Dr G's advice and will follow his protocol. We will have 1 more tx and see what happens. I am imagining it will be our last tx, only due to the fact that we have already spent 1 x tx budget on immunes tx and haven't even had Humira (£750) or any retests yet (another 700 minimum). Who knows? So as you can see, I have been busy! Work is mad too - I don't know if I have mentioned it but me and dh are self employed and have our own cafe and we are in the process of hopefully expanding by opening up a restaurant so I am doing about 2 x ft jobs at the moment! 

So nice to catch up! Off to watch The Wire now.

Big love to you all

Winegum xxx


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## Nordickat

Winegum - my best friend and I used to talk about (and plan in great detail) the book shop and cafe we were opening in Devon when we graduated - his was the cafe side and mine was the bookshop side (don´t tell anyone but its still my secret dream although maybe not it Devon now I guess). I think we have our first group meet destination now though and we´ll see you in your restaurant - lots of luck with it. And all your tx plans sound promising too. It seems lots of you have a way forward now.

As for chlamydia - I just find the whole thing odd thats all. I´m not surprised I tested positive as I have had too many sexual partners (although technically not all ´partners´, and I was no floozy as they were not all through choice). There are many different strains of chlamydia that it could be and PCR does not distinguish between, and to be honest I haven´t been dedicated enough to find out the likelihood of us always having some chlamydia (dead or alive) in our blood. Its not quantitative either though so we have no idea how much of what we actually have. But thats not what I´m dubious about. Its the repeat positives I´m suspicious of. My gut feeling is that there are no repeat positives - to the point I took my full course of pills and won´t get retested. My feeling is that they are just measuring dead chlamydia. All the people testing positive are in long term stable relationships so their chlamydia has been with them a good long while but yet is resistant to antibiotics. How does that happen? Being hidden deep inside your body doesn´t make it harder for the antiBs to reach! Surely those that get it now are the ones that will have the resistant strains not those of us that have the old fashioned strain? I have never taken antiBs in my adult life so I worked on the basis that it will be zapped by one dose of pills - they are seriously hardcore tablets. I´m not against it all, there is no harm in having a dose of tablets and maybe it really does lead to BFPs    The guy who sits opposite me at work runs PCR on bacteria all the time I just have never found a way to get chlamydia into the conversation  , even more interesting though, is the guy behind who does IVF on oysters and mussels  

JBT - now you have a date in your head you can make it your goal to get fit and healthy for getting your frosties back     

JBox -   
MrsRock -     and    

Anyway, I only popped on now in case I´m not on again for a while - as I have posted so much recently I thought you might think it strange if I suddenly vanished. Big day tomorrow, first proper day at work for a month and I´m terrified and then my assessment, which will be fine unless she asks how I am .......... I´m so screwed! I am very very scared about the next few days but I know deep down that whatever happens is for the best. They are on my side and I have to trust them. Be brave KitKat!

So, lots of love to you all and I will hopefully be able to still read on here whatever happens. Maybe I can persuade DH I need an iphone so I can come on here properly ...... all part of the vital support and all that   

  to one and all, Katxxx


----------



## vw22

Girrrrrrrls I am home! And after 5 minutes and ignoring 200 emails, on here to read up!


Ok there is no way I can comment on everything but its lovely to see the chatter, good and bad. 


Kat it breaks my heart that you are so hard on yourself when you are obviously so strong in other ways. Don't regret anything you have done everything I would have done too.
Winegum, sorry thats a new one on me (saline hysterograpy), it sounds so much like a hstersalpingogram but who cares, I really think any kind of 'action in the hood' will be good ...



Everyone has so much going on that I need to get re-reading...


AMF Quick overview;
Visit to surrogate agencies went well (not sure how else to describe it!). We have signed up and are going ahead. All very weird. We are talking Elton John and Nicole Kidman pictures on their walls as you sit there discussing it. Will talk more about it all later when I can think whats really important to say.


But one thing that bought me seriously down to earth was when we visited the doctor we want to to use. In my head I was sure he would look at my notes and go, "wow you are wonderful, lets try one more time with you" but no. He was very clear, surrogate and donor eggs for sure. I can't tell you how gutted I was! Secretly I thought he would want some extra money and try and get us to try one more time. Especially when my clinic back in spain (who don't know any of this) are saying "come on down for another try". ANYWAY we are signed up and pushing things forward. If we are lucky and get a child this way, we will come back to me in the future (when the pressure is off) and try again with me... I think that is my husband realising what is important to me and helping the process along.


Oh and while all this was going on I thought I was pregnant!!! As if! But I had all the symptoms... spotting, sore boobs, you name it... so really thought I was going to able able to say you can stick your surrogacy up your ar se...but no again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


HA ha you have to laugh. Life is nuts and I am trying hard to keep up.


Plenty more to say but want to go and do some rereading.


Hi to everyone an like George says... keep the faith!


vx


----------



## JBox

Well hi girls, 

What mega posts! so lovely to hear from you all, it has been a while. 

I am coming on today with good news which I am finding very hard to say it out loud especially here. But i am just going to take a huge deep breath and say it....

After 14 cycles (yes 14 cycles) I tested on Saturday morning with a HPT and got a positive! Yesterday I did a blood test and the number came back at 184 which I understand is good and tomorrow I am going back to check my bloods again. I am in shock, and to be honest i am absolutely petrified. 

Its a totally weird feeling and i haven't yet taken it in yet. Me and DH have smiled, hugged and even shed some happy tears, but we are too scared to actually discuss anything, Even calling the doctor with our results and saying it out loud to him, freaked me out . 

I have so many mixed emotions running through me right now that I don’t even know where to start. I am obviously ecstatic but even though I have spent months in counseling discussing the ED issue, I am feeling slightly strange about it. (this is a thread where we can absolutely say the truth without being judged right?). I know that I will get over that, but I suppose I never really thought that I would get a bfp, so I never really considered how I would REALLY feel … 

I can not express enough how much I want this for each and every one of you. If I had a magic wand, I would wave it over you all so that you will all reach your destination whether it through OEIVE, DEIVF, adoption, surrogacy, fostering…. Absolutely no one deserves to suffer from IF NOONE, particularly in this day and age when we have such advances in medicine and science. We should all be able reach our dream in one way or another and I suppose we just have to keep going til we do. 

On a philosophical note, I have NO idea if the reason this treatment over the others worked because of the immune therapy, or whether it really was a numbers game as my Dr kept saying, or whether my whole attitude shift and indifference, made me more relaxed. But  I do think there is something to be said for the success rates I am seeing over on the FGA thread, and the women who are on steroids, clexane, extra prog and drips… ( even tho I didn’t do the drips). So to those of you who are exploring that option, I hope that you will find your answers there. 

I really want to stay on this thread as you women are simply brilliant. I love all your posts, and I love that despite the sadness, there is still so much humour. I hope that we will be hearing some good news soon from Mrs. Rock and anyone else about to start tx or new paths... 

Sending big love to all. I am way too superstitious and nervous to discuss this any more so will  not be mentioning it again, - at least til I start to feel more relaxed about it. 

just one personal KAT        
hope today goes ok . xxxx


----------



## vw22

JBox that is fantastic news. Utterly brilliant and amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am so totally happy for you. wow wow wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Big healthy hugs vx


----------



## Winegum

JBox: Our first BFP!  Bet you never dreamed in a million years it would be you  but let me just tell you, I had a feeling.....I'm delighted for you and hope that your numbers get better and better.  This isn't a tx thread so you don't go anywhere, this is a veterans thread! Not wanting to detract from the fact that personally for you it is amazing news, but it is also fanulous news for the thread so thanks for being the bearer of such fab news for us too.


----------



## Winegum

Nordickat: Thanks for your post.  There was a hint of a sad and difficult past in it and I've come to the only conclusion possible.  Sorry to hear that    

Also wanted to send you big hugs for this week


----------



## Nordickat

JBox - I was beginning to think that you were going to keep it secret forever and I have been bursting to publically say congratulations. I hope you already know how truly delighted I am for you   Chuffed to bits I am   

vw - I have so much to say to you but it'll have to wait, but I'm really excited for you   

winegum - Don't worry, I'm tough as old boots these days   . I hope the antiBs are not making you poorly? It seems to go on forever doesn't it?!

Got to go. Phase one of putting my head through the washing machine is complete and its time for phase two. Hopefully I'll be back tomorrow     

 Katxxx


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## Winegum

Nice to hear you sounding brighter, stronger and more like your old self x


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## pinkpixie

JBox huge congratulations thats wonderful news    


Nodricat hope today is going ok for you


Winegum just wanted to ask why you decided to do the no sugar??  My accupuncturist has recommended a sort of detox before our next treatment and am just trying to get my head round it.  I also have a lot of similar imune issues as you so is intresting t read what Dr G is doing as i am being treated at CARE in manchester and they seem to have different methods.


hi to everyone else
xx


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## Mrs Rock

JBox wonderful news!    14 txs, you don't need to go anywhere, you have earned your membership of this thread!  Re the DE, I can imagine it feels a bit weird.  Say what you feel here, yes of course.  It was not your first choice so you have to get used to it. That does not mean that it will not bring you joy and I am sure that it will   .

VW sounds like a really good trip.  Those photos on the wall - gosh.  I can imagine how you were feeling about not being told to try again yourself   .  But your plan of surro first then come back to you does take the pressure off, sounds good.  Tell us more when you have got your head straight.  Am excited for you.

Kat hope you are feeling better.  I caught that reference too and I'm sorry   .

Winegum no sugar    Well done don't think I could manage that!  FGA thread does move fast.  I have liked it lately as peope have been more chatty and not just used it to get the wonderful Agate to answer questions. I think it helps that sometimes girls meet over drips in Dr G's office.  I have met some nice ladies there and it quite enjoyable in an odd way.  Or at least it is if you don't pull your cannula out and bleed uncontrollably!  You should see my bruise, a week later and it is still huge.

Hi to Pink Pixie, Billabong, everyone else   

BTW please don't go expecting happy news from me.  Feeling very much as though it has not worked. DON'T tell me to stay positive!  I know I can say that strongly here without offending anyone      Love you girls.


On the subject of a new name, as Winegum alluded to us being veterans, maybe we should call ourselves the Tx Veterans?  Kitten as you started this thread, would this be ok with you honey?


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## Winegum

*vw22: *Realised I haven't acknowledged you are back as you posted right after me - welcome back and looking forward to hearing more.

*MrsRock: *No PMA police on here! Just hopeful friends  You feel exactly how you want honey, and if you feel like it's not going to work then that's fine by me. All I can say is if JBox can prove herself wrong, anyone can  Re a name for the thread, I just thought that reflecting how the thread has developed into a lovely friendly supportive one, we ought to have a slightly more positive sounding name, but does that make me sound like a PMA police?? OMG I hope not  Where are you cycling - remind me. What is your back up plan? 
What do you think *Han72,* after all you are our volunteer and will be starting part 2 when you see fit? Where are you cycling - remind me. What is your back up plan?

*NordicKat*: We were prescribed omeprazole with the ABs, one per day and the only day I felt a bit sicky was on the first day with all that Flagyl,  otherwise, no symptoms to report. Am now pondering whether to bother with a retest? maybe I am better of retesting my cytokine ratio first as that was probably elevated due to the Chlamydia. What I am confused about is this: Does Chlamydia prevent pregnancy or just make it more difficult? Considering my history, how seriously should I take this result? Should I just see it as "interesting" or the main reason my txs have failed? Or one of the possible reasons my txs have failed? 

*Pinkpixie: *The no sugar thing: well, I had my tests done at Dr G including microplasma and ureaplasma which is a HVS (high vaginal swab). It came back negative for infection but showed scanty growth of Candida Albicans (evil yeasts) and on my previous swabs, of which I have had quite a few, it always shows "scanty growth of yeasts", or just "yeasts". I never have any symptoms of thrush. I have taken the one off Canasten tablet in the past too, but it obviously comes back. I learnt that yeasts thrive on sugar and that a high GI diet isn't good for IF and TX generally. Also, I have high TNFa (inflamatory response) and a high GI diet is known to exacerbate that. Also, I have high-ish blood sugar and PCO tendancies and possible borderline insulin resistance. Basically, all my test results show I might benefit from better nutrition/no sugar. Previously I have been resistant to dietary changes believing that it is just too difficult for me to incorporate into my life. Now, I would say that I have a good diet because I don't eat any bought in processed food and I eat salads and fruit, however, proper analysis of my diet too often reveals toast for breakfast, toast for lunch, long gaps without food, then digging into cakes and biscuits instead of a proper meal - not every day, but sweet things and sweets and choc were a part of my daily diet. In hindsight, I would say I balance out the bad things in my diet with good things and exercise, but that is not necessarily a "good diet"! I don't like the idea of actually doing a diet (don't need to loose weight) and I'm not one of these people who just has one glass of wine because they are driving, or doing IVF  , I would rather have none at all than have to stop at one - hence the cupboard purging of all sweet treats. If I feel like treating myself I have some pistachio nuts or peanuts or crisps (still low GI thankfully, but high in fat!) I also try to follow the 4 hour rule and don't go more than 4 hours without having something to eat. I keep oatcakes nearby at all times to nibble on (they are actually quite nice) I have pasta about once a week, no potatoes, no rice and only Vogels soya and linseed bread. I am really proud of myself for not giving into sweets and never thought it would be like this but I can honestly say it has not been that difficult to do. If I can be of any further help, just ask. Other ladies have used the South beach Diet which is low GI/low carb, but mainly for weight loss as well.

UK based ladies, hope you are enjoying the gloomy BH weekend

Love to all
Winegum xxx


----------



## Han72

Oh..... My..... GAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHD!!!!!

                                   GWAAAAAAN JBOX!!!!

Ahem.. er sorry, calming down now  (Very happy though  )

WG - Boy, do I hear you re the "we never go anywhere" whinge, I say it all the time! It's not strictly true but I can't remember the last time DH and I went out, just us and had a nice time together... We're either going to visit family/friends or sometimes (like this w/e) MIL comes to us  Meh! No plan B as such... I was contemplating a tandem cycle somewhere but I can't stand the thought of starting all over again with yet another clinic. So the choices thus far are another oe cycle at the ARGC, hideously expensive and stressful but I know and trust them. Or another DE cycle in Barbados, I also trust them, but the downer there is it's anonymous... You _can _choose your donor (at a price  ) from something that looks and feels like a catologue which just feels plain weird to me  . But ideally I'd like my donor to be a relative and none of mine are eligible (all too old or too young  ) Which is why I'm leaning more towards OE than anything else...

Eeeh, you're good giving up sugar. And potatoes. I actually don't think I could do it, wot no spuds?! Noooooo!!!! 

Jaysus Kat     for previous bloody awful experiences and     for going back to work and the assessment. I'm still convinced it's gonna be easier than you think. Not easy, just eas_ier_....    

PMSL at the thought of you trying to work chlamydia into the conversation with your work colleague    "Yeah, so I was talking to my mate, Chlamydia... what?! Why are you laughing, I thought it was quite a pretty name. Her twin sister is called Gonorrhea and their mum's name is Vagina... What?!!! Oh yes I know it's a disease too but it's not nice to take the p155! So er.. speaking of chlamydia...."   

Re the test that everyone's raving on about, it is for live bugs, not the dead ones IIRC.... I tested negative BTW so it's not like everyone automatically gets a +ive result although I'm also at a loss as to how anyone can still can be positive after those mega anti-b's  
Mrs Jelly Rock - soddit, you feel how you feel innit! Like WG said, no PMA Police here  Everytime I see your username I think of that Kerry Hilson choon, "do the pretty girl rock"

Merde - wanted to say loads more but the dwag is whining to go out and DH is acting like he can't hear her 

BTW we can call the thread anything you like ladies, let me know your suggestions and I'll change it now if you want 

xxx


----------



## Nordickat

Han - thank you so much. Its quite a while since I actually laughed out loud.

I agree that we need a positive name ..... not a ´we will get pg´ name, but a ´we will find happiness´ name.

MrsRock - I think JBox ´it´ll never work/I´ve got no symptoms´is proof that positivity is not necessary, but we´ll all be hoping with all our hearts that you´re next     

I´m pretty sure they use bog standard PCR for the chlamydia test in Greece which just looks for the DNA which is stable for weeks after the bacteria have died. Maybe they pretreat it first but thats still a research tool so I doubt it. Maybe they don´t use PCR though. You should take your result seriously though Winegum and if its going to bother you then you should also retest, you can´t continue with doubts so probably best to retest for peace of mind. In theory I guess it can be the sole reason for not getting pg but there is no real evidence for that yet although it may well come with a few more people to add to the stats. I think that one problem finding the true cause is that by the time we are looking at chlamydia we are also looking at other immunes stuff so nobody know what the real fixit is ....... jeez, no wonder I never get invited to dinner parties if I´m this dull   . I´ll keep quite about my sugar thoughts before I prove how boring I really am    - but its good for lots of reasons pinkpixie. I also agree with Winegum that its not as hard as you think, which is why I´m beating myself up so much for not doing it this cycle.

Well, tough day and I´m feeling very delicate and vulnerable so no more from me. I´m still living on the outside though and I have a short term loony bin reprieve (flippancy is a coping mechanism so don´t take offense - I fully understand the seriousness of it all) but with some seriously strict criteria. Alcohol was not mentioned though so I´m off for a glass of vino before they change their minds!

Love and thanks. I suspect none of you realise quite how much of a lifeline this place has been for the last few days.
 Katxxx


----------



## Han72

Hey you know what, the Veteran comment reminded me of something...  This is copied from something I've posted and reposted so many times I've lost count but it never fails to make me PMSL    

"Good!  Now, in the interests of maintaining my sanity, I think it's time to dust this one off again. Steph posted it ages ago but I promised Malini I'd find it for her... It was unfortunately censored but if you replace the words "naughty boy who plays with his winkle too much" with "[email protected]" it's even funnier!

IVF Barbie

When Mattel were looking to design their new Barbie, IVF Barbie, they soon realized that there was not one universal Barbie that would accurately portray the spirit of IVF Barbie. So they decided they would come out with a few variations thereof.

Newbie Barbie: Newbie Barbie, also known as BabyDust Barbie is a bright, perky, Barbie, filled with optimism and confidence that IVF Will Work. She is thinner and usually younger than the other IVF Barbies. Her accessories include rose-tinted spectacles, a positive bank balance, healthy insurance coverage and a million questions. Newbie Barbie has lots of other Newbie Barbie friends and they congratulate each other on a job well done. This Barbie only says pleasant, optimistic things and believes that Attitude is Everything. Their motto is Think Positive!!

Pregnant Newbie Barbie: Pregnant Newbie Barbie is the big sister to Newbie Barbie. She is still slim, now with a cute belly. She is proof that IVF Does Work, usually the first time. She also comes with rose-tinted spectacles, a positive bank balance (only very slightly depleted) and total confidence that All Will Be OK. She glows when pregnant and liberally uses baby dust when playing with her sisters, the Newbie Barbies. She comes with Very Cute maternity clothes, a double stroller, and a fully decorated nursery even though she is only just a few weeks pregnant. Her motto is ‘See! Thinking Positive Works!!’. 

Newbie Barbie and Pregnant Newbie Barbies are great playmates and you can collect them as a set.

Veteran Barbie: 
Veteran Barbies are not at all related to the Barbies above. Veteran Barbies are the Anti-Barbie. They are a whole lot plumper than the Newbie Barbies, less perky (in boobs and attitude), have grayer hair, a largely negative and over-drawn bank balance, plenty of bruises and marks and a slightly cynical attitude. They are dressed in comfy track pants with elasticated waistbands. Their accessories include a wealth of knowledge of reproductive procedures and protocol, the ability to practically do their own cycle, a snarky attitude, little tolerance for stupidity, a well defined sense of humor, the ability to laugh at themselves, a fondness for wine/beer/crack and a aversion to pineapple, baby dust and Newbie Barbies. This aversion in its more severe form can be allergic and acerbic. Veteran Barbies tend to swear quite a bit (especially when playing in the Barbie House with Newbie Barbies and Pregnant Newbie Barbies) and parental guidance is advised.

Pregnant Veteran Barbie: 
Very similar to Veteran Barbie, only now with an added dose of neuroses and paranoia. Continuously and obsessively over-analyses every twinge, convinced that the end is nigh. Only buys stroller and decorates nursery when in eighth month. Accessories include disbelief and a sense of not quite belonging, and 10 home pregnancy tests just in case the first one was faulty or the clinic made a mistake with her beta. Pregnant Veteran Barbies have been known to pee on the sticks up until the day before giving birth just to see the two lines.

Celebrity IVF Barbie: 
Celeb Barbie comes in two versions: Denial Celeb Barbie and Out the Closet IVF Barbie. Denial Celeb Barbie does not play with the other Barbies and pretends not to be an IVF Barbie at all. She drops the IVF part of her name and thinks 'Donor Eggs' is a swear word. She pretends that her twins at age 49 are Natural and she did it all On Her Own. She also claims her boobs are her own and that she has never had a face lift, hence her credibility is not at an all time high. 

Out the Closet IVF Barbie is the preferred Barbie. We like her.

IVF Ken: Ken is a naughty boy who plays with his winkle too much. Sorry to sound so harsh, but besides being a naughty boy who plays with his winkle too much there is very little that Ken does in IVF land. Sometimes Ken administers shots, hands out tissues and occasionally accompanies the Barbies to their Dr’s visits (normally during the first few cycles only), but mostly he is just a naughty boy who plays with his winkle too much. If you choose an IVF Ken, then try and get one that also cooks or does DIY. Otherwise just sit him down in front of your Barbie TV and let him know when it is time for him to do his, um, contribution. Mostly the Barbies love their Kens, unless Ken is being particularly insensitive or obnoxious, then he becomes a naughty boy who plays with his winkle too much in all senses of the word. Some IVF Barbies don’t even have a Ken and they do just fine. If you do find a good Ken, hang on to him, don’t swap him with your other friends.

RE Ken : 
RE Ken (RE = Reproductive Endocrinologist) is the all knowing, all seeing Ken. He might be a naughty boy who plays with his winkle too much, or not, but here we are talking about being a naughty boy who plays with his winkle too much in the figurative sense. He could also be very nice. He may call you by your first name but you may only call him Doctor. His accessories are many and wonderful. He comes with a zooty new car (normally very expensive), a smart house, a very healthy bank balance and a holiday home or two. RE Ken knows every thing and is considered second only to God. Some RE Kens are kind, some are not. They are all rich. Ken’s office is filled with fun toys like ultra sound machines, dildo like probes, waiting rooms filled with the different types of Barbies (some annoyingly come with miniature Barbies or Kens en tow), medicines, procedures rooms etc. 

RE Ken also comes with a free Nurse (Ratchet) Barbie, who will not return your calls, will hand out annoying platitudes and generally add to your frustration levels. 

When purchasing RE Ken you will get Ultrasound Ken and BloodDrawer Ken. Unfortunately they come as a package deal and you are not able to get RE Ken without them, they aren’t as much fun. However, you will need a RE Ken if you are going to play the IVF Barbie game.

Mattel foresee a big demand for these Barbies and say that for extra fun and lively interaction, collect the full set of IVF Barbies, put them in the Barbie house together and see the sparks fly!"


Now if you're not laughing I want to know WHY!!!  Soooo... how about Veteran IVF Barbies as a ew name for the thread or something along those lines  
xxx


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## Han72

I am the Anti-Barbie


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## Mrs Rock

Han I fecking LOVE LOVE LOVE that! I am Veteran IVF Barbie to the life!  I actually wondered if it was just me who thinks that people for whom IVF works first time can be almost more annoying than people who get pg naturally and tell you to 'just relax'.  Oh my word I am going to drag DH in to read it now....back later

Please can we be the IVF Veteran Barbies it will make me smile every time I see it


----------



## waikiki

OMG Han, how did you know that I would read that post whilst wearing my tracksuit bottoms with elasticated waistband?!!! (My excuse: it's a rainy bank holiday, usually I am so much more glamourous  ).  Brilliant post and I am also definitely The Anti-Barbie!    

JBox - congratulations on the first   of the thread!         

Kat - so glad that your assessment is over and seems to have gone as well as it could have. Have that glass of wine hun, you've certainly earned it.  

Mrs Rock - don't worry about not feeling positive, it's our job to do that for you.    

Sorry no time for more personals, but sending love to you all.   

waikiki


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## vw22

Han. Thats so brilliant!!! I know which barbie I am! I was going to do a really boring post but think I will come back later!!!


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## Mrs Rock

Can I just say that I am seriously gagging for a glass of white wine!  Friday nights and Sunday nights I usually have a wee glass or two if I'm at home and I am very Pavlovian.  But have not totally given up such as to have one, are you all happy now?!  Although if I'm honest I think I feel it hasn't worked  because I was pregnant just 2 months ago so I still remember really clearly how my body felt and it doesn't feel like that now.  Ho hum, interlude of thinking a bit positively now over, back to IVF Barbie


----------



## Mrs Rock

DH really laughed at that and wanted to know if he was a good IVF Ken, I said I would definitely not be swapping him with my mates as he still comes to appointments..


----------



## Han72

Mrs Rock said:


> Can I just say that I am seriously gagging for a glass of white wine! Friday nights and Sunday nights I usually have a wee glass or two if I'm at home and I am very Pavlovian.


Will I get a slap if I say soddit and have one anyway? One's not gonna do any harm and when you think of the people who drink like fish and yet manage to get and stay preg.... By the way you do know it's Monday right...? Have you missed your wine drinking window     

*Han sneaks off before the wrath of Zita West falls on her head....*

xxx

PS


Mrs Rock said:


> DH really laughed at that and wanted to know if he was a good IVF Ken, I said I would definitely not be swapping him with my mates as he still comes to appointments..


Did you say yes DH, you're a very good little w.......r     

Rah I think I'd better log orf before I get sacked as a volunteer


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## Mrs Rock

OMG I forgot it was Monday!


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## Han72




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## JBox

Brilliant Han!!!! I am not sure right now, which barbie i fall into but the elasticated waisted trousers, and the bruises (you should see the state of my stomache at the moment ) and the Celeb Barbie - fantastic....Love It!!!!!!

Mrs Rock - have a glass or two. I did over the past couple of weeks. 

Thanks everyone for good wishes. Still petrified. Waiting for bts back today and am feeling more nervous than i did first time round!
xxxxx


----------



## wobs

Jbox        yeah!!!!! Fantastic news!!!!!!!

Han - love the Barbie version!!     

Kat - hope work going ok.  Sure you're doing brilliantly.   

WG - ta re: immunes.  Are Mr G and ARGC very different in their approach - I was assuming we could just go to the ARGC and do their tests and go from there, especially as I'm a bit skeptical?  

Hi Waikiki, Mrs Rock (keep strong), VW, Pinkpizie, JBT, Jet, Billabong, Kitten   
(sorry if I've missed anyone)

AFM still waking up at 5 every morning and working, working, working...I seem to stop mid afternoon and then DH & I go out/do gardening or something non-work related.  Hoping to do 2 more days week and then have a few days off.  yipppppeeee
Best get on.

Can't compete with the the huge long posts on this thread (they're great)   , but will try and post properly at the end of the week once I've done my work and am feeling less stressed.  Can't cope when have sooooo much to do.  Best get on

Wobs

ps Jbox - wooohoooo again! 

Can't keep up on here


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## Nordickat

I just wanted to quickly cast my vote for our new name of 'veteran IVF barbies'. I'm actually proud to be one!   
  
  Things have changed a little bit for me since yesterday and I have to go  away for a while afterall. I think I'm allowed my phone so I can check  for JBox's raising blood test results and MrsRock     for you too. My phone is rubbish though so I doubt I'll be able to post  but I'll still be out there watching and hoping for you all.
  
  Back soon I hope, 
   Katxxx


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## Winegum

Sorry to hear that Kat but I hope it is for the best, to give you what you need, and you come out stronger and rested.  We'll miss you and hope you'll be back soon x


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## JBox

KAT darling, i hope you get some peace of mind with your time out and come back feeling stronger and healthier. Wehere for you when you get back babe. 
this is for you on behalf of all of us.... 

VW2 - looking forward to hearing your update... sounds really exciting.

Loving the name but wonder if it can be shortened to just "Veteran Barbies" so it includes all treatments!!!!

I did get my bloods back today and they are now at 523 which is good. For the first time i felt a flutter or excitement inside. fingers crossed. 

Hope you are all ok....


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## pinkpixie

OMG i shouldnt have read that post about barbies in work just nearly spat my lunch all over my desk.  I think i am going to have to print that out it is brilliant.  Was beginning to think i must be a really awful person for resenting the Newbie Barbie and getting annoyed by them!!!

Kat hope you are ok   

Jbox   thats wonderful am so pleased for you

Winegum thanks for the info about sugar i think it is time to stop talking myself out of it and just go for it!!!

Mrs Rock hope you had your wine and enjoyed it 

AFM feeling a bit fed up of it all at the mo had to ring st marys at weekend to say FET hadnt worked i know the nurses are trying to be helpful but their sympathy really doesnt help and when its your 5th failure the platitudes just wind me up.  Got very sick this time of people trying to be helpful and saying just be positive, it doesnt work!!!  Yes i am turning into a bitter woman

Love to all
xx
h


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## JBox

think new motto on this thread, should be "be indifferent".....Hate all those positive people over on the other threads, makes me want to scream! We all know that being happy, and positive and la-de-bloomin-da does not help the outcome. So to all those positive pushers....  P*SS OFF!!!!!!!


----------



## JBox

Isnt swearing a sympton of Veteran Barbie

haha


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## kitten77

hello everyone! blimey its taken me ages to read through all that!!

first off Jbox - i know you dont want to talk about it....but ive gotta say - congrates hun!!!!!! 

second - Vetern IVF Barbie is our new name - offical!!!!! and seeing i started the thread i think i have right to say yes! heehe - loved that post, i laughed so much! thanks Han!

winegum - sorry i havent replied, but a pm about going to dr gorgy would be fabo, hum...can you tell me what i need to do, how much, what they do there, do they ask all about your history, do i need to take anything??  sorry for all the questions.

kat     

sorry its a quick one, just spent my lunch time reading up on the thread, now no time to post at all!!!!!

be back later! love ya


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## Han72

Hi all

Pinkpixie     It always amazes me that the people who work in clinics can't find something better to say than the usual crass platitudes. I'll never forget the day that a genuinely well meaning nurse blethered something about it being "mother nature's way" I nearly took her head off   



Winegum said:


> Sorry to hear that Kat but I hope it is for the best, to give you what you need, and you come out stronger and rested. We'll miss you and hope you'll be back soon x





JBox said:


> KAT darling, i hope you get some peace of mind with your time out and come back feeling stronger and healthier. Wehere for you when you get back babe.
> this is for you on behalf of all of us....


Aww the girls have said it so well already! I'm glad you can keep reading even if you can't post so you can keep up with the banter! Looking forward to having you back on here, rested, relaxed and ready to join in the hilarity    

To start things off, Wobs, here's a little synopsis I wrote about a typical day at the ARGC:



Han72 said:


> I remember trying to keep a diary during tx at the Argybargy - pfffff! It was all I could do to get me shoes on the right feet, never mind keep a record of what was happening everyday! Even though it was always the same, "woke up at death o clock, stabbed meself, took a load of tablets, mainlined a litre of milk, staggered to the clinic, gave a pint or so of blood, staggered off to eat a huge brekkie thanks to steroid induced munchies, had a heart attack cos missed a call from the clinic, had another heart attack when I spoke to them cos they said I needed to shoot up more drugs NOW and I didn't have enough on me, staggered home, shoot up, EEK phone going again!! Where is it?!  its the clinic again, now have to go back for more bloods and a scan, staggered back to the tube, fell asleep and missed my stop, then got on the wrong line to go back again AAARGH!!! Finally arrived at Upper Wimpole Street, fell through the blue door, collapsed in a squashy sofa and missed it when they called me for the scan cos I was snoozing with me gob open with a bit of dribble running down me chin, went for scan, put knickers on wrong way round, staggered home again fell asleep at 7.45 then woke up in a panic cos missed another call from the clinic, take 2 hours to mix up menopur cos can't remember how many vials makes up 600iu etc etc.... Rinse and repeat
> 
> Its like groundhog day innit! I often wonder if ARGC is actually a mis- spelling and it should be called AARRGH!!!
> 
> Xxx


I forgot to add in between each stage of that day, "drank some water, had a pee"  One thing you learn when cycling at the Argybargy is the location of easily accesible loos in the west end (I recommend The Natural Kitchen on Marylebone High St, and McDonalds, Debenhams, John Lewis and Selfridges on Oxford Street  )

I can't speak for how The Gorgon runs his cycles but the ARGC is properly full on. We don't call it IVF Bootcamp for nothing  I do know that Gorgy will do the testing even if you cycle elsewhere, whereas the ARGC will expect you to do the testing and cycle with them. (Although I can't see what's to stop you doing the testing first and then going elsewhere  )

If you go to the ARGC board on here, there's a "help pages and info" thread which should answer some of your questions (and possibly raise some you hadn't even thought of before  ) I have to say the description I wrote earlier is pretty typical of what it's like when you get closer to EC but it's all that scanning and blood testing that helps them get the best out of your ovaries. They're still the only clinic that got me frosties which is pretty impressinve considering my history. They are expensive but again it's all the testing that bumps up the cost. The basic IVF/ICSI pricing is pretty standard for a private clinic but testing FSH/E2/LH every day of stims is going to bump the cost up, as will any immune tx, IVIG/Humira are both pretty expensive (although you're not obliged to take either) intralipids are now available at a much lower cost but it's still expensive compared to eg a pack of prednisolone!

The main sticking point with them is that the head honcho, Mr Taranissi is really hung up on day 3 FSH levels. If you're much over 10, he doesn't like to go ahead as he's convinced himself the eggs are going to be useless. I've seen plenty of examples that indicate this isn't the case but he's really stuck on that one for some reason...

Anyhoo, I'll shurrup about it now and let you check out the ARGC threads for yourself  
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=210.0



JBox said:


> think new motto on this thread, should be "be indifferent".....Hate all those positive people over on the other threads, makes me want to scream! We all know that being happy, and positive and la-de-bloomin-da does not help the outcome. So to all those positive pushers.... P*SS OFF!!!!!!!





JBox said:


> Isnt swearing a sympton of Veteran Barbie
> 
> haha


   

Was it on here I said I was looking for a "stick 2 fingers up" smiley? Look wot I found! ...
    Take that you PMA pushers   

Right, Veteran Barbies it is! (I'll leave out the IVF so others doing other tx don't feel excluded) Hang on a tick while I go and fiddle with it... oo-errr!!!


----------



## Han72

Had multiple failed cycles? Do you recognise yourself in the description of Veteran IVF Barbie as posted below?! If so, welcome to the thread!



Han72 said:


> IVF Barbie
> 
> When Mattel were looking to design their new Barbie, IVF Barbie, they soon realized that there was not one universal Barbie that would accurately portray the spirit of IVF Barbie. So they decided they would come out with a few variations thereof.
> 
> Newbie Barbie: Newbie Barbie, also known as BabyDust Barbie is a bright, perky, Barbie, filled with optimism and confidence that IVF Will Work. She is thinner and usually younger than the other IVF Barbies. Her accessories include rose-tinted spectacles, a positive bank balance, healthy insurance coverage and a million questions. Newbie Barbie has lots of other Newbie Barbie friends and they congratulate each other on a job well done. This Barbie only says pleasant, optimistic things and believes that Attitude is Everything. Their motto is Think Positive!!
> 
> Pregnant Newbie Barbie: Pregnant Newbie Barbie is the big sister to Newbie Barbie. She is still slim, now with a cute belly. She is proof that IVF Does Work, usually the first time. She also comes with rose-tinted spectacles, a positive bank balance (only very slightly depleted) and total confidence that All Will Be OK. She glows when pregnant and liberally uses baby dust when playing with her sisters, the Newbie Barbies. She comes with Very Cute maternity clothes, a double stroller, and a fully decorated nursery even though she is only just a few weeks pregnant. Her motto is 'See! Thinking Positive Works!!'.
> 
> Newbie Barbie and Pregnant Newbie Barbies are great playmates and you can collect them as a set.
> 
> Veteran Barbie: Veteran Barbies are not at all related to the Barbies above. Veteran Barbies are the Anti-Barbie. They are a whole lot plumper than the Newbie Barbies, less perky (in boobs and attitude), have grayer hair, a largely negative and over-drawn bank balance, plenty of bruises and marks and a slightly cynical attitude. They are dressed in comfy track pants with elasticated waistbands. Their accessories include a wealth of knowledge of reproductive procedures and protocol, the ability to practically do their own cycle, a snarky attitude, little tolerance for stupidity, a well defined sense of humor, the ability to laugh at themselves, a fondness for wine/beer/crack and a aversion to pineapple, baby dust and Newbie Barbies. This aversion in its more severe form can be allergic and acerbic. Veteran Barbies tend to swear quite a bit (especially when playing in the Barbie House with Newbie Barbies and Pregnant Newbie Barbies) and parental guidance is advised.
> 
> Pregnant Veteran Barbie:
> Very similar to Veteran Barbie, only now with an added dose of neuroses and paranoia. Continuously and obsessively over-analyses every twinge, convinced that the end is nigh. Only buys stroller and decorates nursery when in eighth month. Accessories include disbelief and a sense of not quite belonging, and 10 home pregnancy tests just in case the first one was faulty or the clinic made a mistake with her beta. Pregnant Veteran Barbies have been known to pee on the sticks up until the day before giving birth just to see the two lines.
> 
> Celebrity IVF Barbie:
> Celeb Barbie comes in two versions: Denial Celeb Barbie and Out the Closet IVF Barbie. Denial Celeb Barbie does not play with the other Barbies and pretends not to be an IVF Barbie at all. She drops the IVF part of her name and thinks 'Donor Eggs' is a swear word. She pretends that her twins at age 49 are Natural and she did it all On Her Own. She also claims her boobs are her own and that she has never had a face lift, hence her credibility is not at an all time high.
> 
> Out the Closet IVF Barbie is the preferred Barbie. We like her.
> 
> IVF Ken: Ken is a naughty boy who plays with his winkle too much. Sorry to sound so harsh, but besides being a naughty boy who plays with his winkle too much there is very little that Ken does in IVF land. Sometimes Ken administers shots, hands out tissues and occasionally accompanies the Barbies to their Dr's visits (normally during the first few cycles only), but mostly he is just a naughty boy who plays with his winkle too much. If you choose an IVF Ken, then try and get one that also cooks or does DIY. Otherwise just sit him down in front of your Barbie TV and let him know when it is time for him to do his, um, contribution. Mostly the Barbies love their Kens, unless Ken is being particularly insensitive or obnoxious, then he becomes a naughty boy who plays with his winkle too much in all senses of the word. Some IVF Barbies don't even have a Ken and they do just fine. If you do find a good Ken, hang on to him, don't swap him with your other friends.
> 
> RE Ken :
> RE Ken (RE = Reproductive Endocrinologist) is the all knowing, all seeing Ken. He might be a naughty boy who plays with his winkle too much, or not, but here we are talking about being a naughty boy who plays with his winkle too much in the figurative sense. He could also be very nice. He may call you by your first name but you may only call him Doctor. His accessories are many and wonderful. He comes with a zooty new car (normally very expensive), a smart house, a very healthy bank balance and a holiday home or two. RE Ken knows every thing and is considered second only to God. Some RE Kens are kind, some are not. They are all rich. Ken's office is filled with fun toys like ultra sound machines, dildo like probes, waiting rooms filled with the different types of Barbies (some annoyingly come with miniature Barbies or Kens en tow), medicines, procedures rooms etc.
> 
> RE Ken also comes with a free Nurse (Ratchet) Barbie, who will not return your calls, will hand out annoying platitudes and generally add to your frustration levels.
> 
> When purchasing RE Ken you will get Ultrasound Ken and BloodDrawer Ken. Unfortunately they come as a package deal and you are not able to get RE Ken without them, they aren't as much fun. However, you will need a RE Ken if you are going to play the IVF Barbie game.
> 
> Mattel foresee a big demand for these Barbies and say that for extra fun and lively interaction, collect the full set of IVF Barbies, put them in the Barbie house together and see the sparks fly!"


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## Han72

Dunnit!  When we start a new thread, I'll put the message above on the first page 

xxx


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## kitten77

Brill thanks Han!!!!


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## wobs

Love the new title - Veterian Barbies   

Han - thank sooo much for ARGC stuff.  OMG just scared and stressed thinking about it.  I wish I could get a cancellation so I could have treatment over the summer, but am beginning (and only beginning) to chill about it and go with the flow.  Suspet I'll have to get in that frame of mind.  I will take time off and not feel guilty.

Pinkpixie - people!!! grrrrrr   

Kat - hope you're feeling stronger

Jbox - woohoo

Hi everyone else

Seriously bored of writing reports now.....Would recommend no-one ever wants to become a teacher   

Wobs


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## Mrs Rock

Veteran Barbies Yeah!         Veteran Barbies Yeah!


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## vw22

Loving the new thread title!!!


And before I finally get to personals (and promise I will) just wanted to say while you have all had PMA thrown at you in bucket loads from nurses, when I got my first bfp after 1 million tries at IVF the nurse I saw (to ask advice on something) asked how far gone I was. I replied about 4 weeks (and 3 minutes) very happily and she said " oh you've just rolled out of bed... lets wait before we get too excited".


1. Rolled out of bed? Rolled off a set of stippups more like.
2. Too excited? After everything I had been through to get to that point, just a moment of joy would have been nice.


!!!


vx


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## jamaicababytrying

Winegum my friend i was helping had to put off transfer as she has big fibroids and her lining thin, they knew about the fibroids from before but because of her age the doctor wanted to do the cycle retrieve the eggs and then surgery so at least she had the eggs frozen... so she will do surgery next month and then transfer later in the year after she has recovered.

Kat yes i have time to "get fit" i am pretty "healthy" I watch what i eat, very little alcohol if any, very rarely do I have sweets... i am not sure y I just can't shed the pounds.. it's funny i used to be very petite when I turned 30 I stopped smoking  and voila weight gain... then the ivf cycles haven't helped and i have pcos so that also doesn't help... but my main problem is I don't exercise enough i think and when i do i drop some pounds but not enough.. I had considered talking to a nutritionist and i think i need to seriously pursue that... it's just frustrating! but tomorrow is June 1 and i am giving myself 3 months to start and maintain an exercise programme... wish me luck


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## jamaicababytrying

Han yuh nuh easy... but i loved the Barbie series love love loved it, read it to hubby and he actually laughed...

Kat hugs

JBOX congats, congrats, congrats


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## jamaicababytrying

Kat      for you, i wish you peace and relaxation!

I just spent most of the evening reading up and posting ad hoc... 

I am thinking of going to a nutritionist to see if my eating habits are ideal and conducive to baby making! Guys i have no idea how you do the no sugar thing i really admire that... although i only use sugar in my coffee in the mornings so i am going to try and see if i can cut that out... as for the starch hmmmm i try to limit our rice consumption but we are suckers for cheese and pasta...

Still fighting with myself about postponing fet... anyway not beating up myself. nite ladies


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## wobs

VW - can't believe the nurse said that to you!!!!!    

JBT - you sound pretty healthy to me.  THink it was Kat that said about a book she followed to do with insulin resistance and not being able to shift those extra lbs.  Well I bought it and its v interesting - all to do with linking what you eat and basically eating protein with everything and leaving a 2 hour window; think I'm going to try it.  Mind you haven't finished reading it yet.  Exercise is my downfall though do do lots of walking.  Ask me to run however and think I would fall over in exhaustiong pretty quickly   

Best get on with bloomin' reports

have a good day ladies
Wobs


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## Mrs Rock

Girls I am feeling a bit low, please could you tell me I'm not an idiot to feel this way?   

Yesterday my boobs felt a bit sensitive, so started to get my hopes up.  Today - nothing.  

Then I have just now heard that a former friend of mine is pregnant.  Lack of support from friends about IF and other people's pregnancies are two things I really struggle with and this girl is the whole package rolled into one.  I basically spat the dummy two years ago and cut off contact with her because although I had thought she was one of my closest friends, it seemed as though she couldn't have cared less how I was getting on when I started my first ever IVF cycle, I barely heard from her.  At the same time, my  sister made a suicide attempt which obv was very traumatic and again this friend seemed not to think it even worth a phone call.  I thought I was better off without her as her radio silence upset me so much, but I did miss her and as we have lots of mutual friends I still hear news about her.  I was due to see her for the first time in 2 years at a wedding in July and was dreading it, but the bride, who knows our situation, has just thoughtfully let me know that the ex friend is pregnant but she and her DH have also pulled out of coming to the wedding - THANK GOD.  But it really gets to me that 2 years ago she was saying "Yes we want children but not for a long while yet, we are so not ready", when at that point I was already desperate and had been for a while, now 2 years on she has decided OK she is ready and clearly gets pregnant straight away when it suits her and of course before me.  Why do some people have it so easy and I have to have it so hard?             

I'm sorry to whinge but I just needed somewhere to let these feelings out.  Even my DH was upset when I told him and I hate seeing him upset so don't want to talk to him about it further, it's not fair to him.


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## Winegum

Mrs Rock:  An idiot?  If your ex friend had had to endure even a tiny bit of what you have had to deal with she would crumble.  News like this has a habit of creeping up on us when we are most vulnerable.  The treatment I recommend is a big hug with dh, get it all out, don't analyse it beyond that and shut your mind to it and focus on yourselves.  I'm sorry you are feeling low and I hope someone does something nice for you today to balance it out and to help you feel good again x


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## Mrs Rock

Winegum thank you for your kind reply.  I count it as someone doing something nice for me today, as you said.  It does help me so much to know there are people who understand why I feel the way I do.


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## Han72

Hey Mrs Rock - who's an idiot? Her for flouncing around making announcements about how she's not ready and then being completely unsupportive to you! I like WG's treatment recommendation and just in case DH isn't available just now, here's some cyber    to keep you going!

As for the mystery disappearing symptoms - meh! They come and go innit?! Think about those idiot women who say they didn't know they were preg til they went for a dump and the baby's head popped out... Wtf?!
Xxx


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## vw22

Mrs Rock, I can totally see where you are coming from. Firstly don't worry about the boob thing, we all know that nothing makes sense when it comes to 'symptoms' so they are best ignored at this stage. But I like Hans description better!!!


Winegum, is so right, if anyone really knew how much you had been through, quite frankly they probably wouldn't believe it, let alone get it. I think our situation is so hard for people to get, that they end up getting it all wrong. The bride on the other hand seems to have a much better idea. 


I know people who have said to me oh we couldn't possibly have another baby, we could never love it as much as this one (making me feel rubbish) and then popped one out anyway and looked all surprised, like, oh we didn't even want it?! (making me feel double rubbish).


I hate to say it but surely after having to deal with people, comments, situations etc that you and we all seem to end up in, I really hope we can cope with anything after this. And maybe those people will be crap at dealing with big things and we will be fine.


Its a horrible feeling dreading being with people that remind us of the situation we are in. And its awful to see partners suffer too. The great thing is YOU are still doing something about the situation when sadly lots of others would have given up or split up. Be nice to yourself missy, you deserve it. vx


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## Nordickat

I knew the was a good reason for smuggling the hacksaw and file and for perfecting my sheet knotting skills. I'm out 

MrsRock    JBox and I were comparing lack of boob pains just a few hours before her BFP ...... oh and to prove it means nothing, my boobs started to hurt yesterday  . And as for your exfriend, at least you know you did the right thing by putting her on the ex list. Sounds like you have good friends too though like the one getting married. You can still talk to your DH though as it might make him feel better about being sad if you are both sad together. So thats me also voting against MrRock being an idiot  . I think we all feel bitter sometimes and wish we didn't.

PinkPixie - I wouldn't try the no sugar until you are finished grieving this BFN and getting ready for your next try. Being miserable _and_ sugar free is hard work. I only do it when I'm feeling OK.

Han - thank you for the giggles over the last couple of days. And the new name is great.

Wobs - don't say that about teaching. Its taken Han years to fill her application form out so you can't put her off now 

JBT  going to see your sister might just be the prefect way to get prepared for FET so don't regret your decision, it might turn out to be your best decision ever.

Obviously I didn't really break out of jail today and I have been let out for a few days. Some friends asked us if we wanted to go to the west coast with them tomorrow for the long weekend and after many tears and some embarassing begging, I've been allowed ....... its therapy don't you know  . I had to admit to them that I am ill though before I was allowed to go - apparently its a bit like being an alcoholic and you have to admit the problem before you can fix it. Oh, and I'm not allowed to be flippant about mental health anymore either (I hope I didn't offend you MrsRock - laughing really is my deffence and I only laugh at myself and not others). It seems the only place I am allowed alone this weekend is the loo though. Actually, I am allowed dog walking by myself due to my responsibility for him, but I'm not allowed out in the boat or up any mountains on my own. I have another assessment on Tuesday though  . I'm so nervous about a whole 4 days away though and I'm not sure if I can keep up the act with friends the whole time. And I'm also really scared about this being the wrong thing to do for me or DH - flying solo, no medication and no support - its a lot of weight on his shoulders. Its funny, being in hospital is really horrid, but coming out again is really frightening and you kind of want to go back to the safety of it  . Nothing can happen to me there. The thing that finally broke me was my work bully. Seriously he is a complete [email protected], I honestly think he polishes his bald head every morning just to get less friction sliding it up his own  . Hopefully not seeing him for a week will mean I can rise above it all next week. But, the tender that I was working myself into the ground on during my 2ww is mine. I won  and its got big kudos and when I turned my phone on just now I had messages and emails of congratulations from loads of people ....... so screw the bully, I have no time for his work now anyway!!! Sorry that was a bit long, it sort of just feel out of my head.

I'm not naive enough to think this is over and I know that going away is ignoring the issue and not dealing with it, but sometimes we need a break from ourselves before we can start again.

Thanks for all being so supportive and generally lovely    Were you all so fantastic before IF or do you think your experience has made you the supportive, empathic and funny people you are? 
Katxxx


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## wobs

Hey ladies

I'm busy avoiding work again 

Oops Han sorry - didn't know you wanted to be a teacher. I do love the actual teaching -its the paperwork that gets me down. I'm a teaching deputy so its silly amounts...But the actual teaching is perfect.... 

Kat - have a good weekend. I'm sure it will do you good. You sound so strong and rational to me; I suspect you are doing better than you think.  V amused by the bald head story at work!!  I reckon if you can keep thinking about him like that he won't wind you up. Congrats on getting the tender! Well done you.

Mrs Rock - sore boobs or not means nothing.  And as Kat says its good to talk to your DH..shared sadness and all that...As for you ex-friend, well sadly I think you're right that she is an ex-friend. Sometimes people just don't get it do they, and stuff like that can hurt us even when we think we're strong and coping with everything.

bye for now
Wobs
ps I don't know anyone who was born in a loo - so can't add to that story
pps yes I reckon we were all wonderful before IF, but do suspect it has certainly made me a stronger person and more empathetic definitely. Do I shamefully admit that before we started IVF I thought it would be easy and even  add a bit of glamour/a story to the situation??!!!


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## Winegum

Just a quickie from  me to say, Kat, fab to hear you sounding so good and huge congrats on the tender!  Have a wonderful celebratory weekend, you more than deserve it. And Mrs Rock, glad we have picked you up a bit xxx. Back later.


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## jamaicababytrying

Morning Ladies

Just a quick note I'm at work  I really hate this job even though it is only 3 days a week I come here... another IVF story, can't change jobs just yet until this whole thing is over. Anyway that's a whole other story which only depresses me when i think about it!

*Kat*: Good for you I concur with wobs you do sound strong and I really hope you have an enjoyable weekend. Yes I do believe the time with my sister will be the best decision I have made.

*Wobs*: Thanks will have to look up that book, please send me the name of the book. Walking is great, I used to but as I said before mi tink sey mi lazy! but i promise I am going to start back 

*Mrs Rock*: I also know of people like your ex-friend had one just like her only thing she already had a baby  It was very disappointing the way she dealt with the whole thing, had no concern for how I was doing. Wven went into the hospital not even a visit! Well that's how it is and these are people that we call our closest friends. Again a long story! I am just full of stories 

ASF Not much happening just feeling sorry for myself and not being able to talk to hubby cause he thinks I am obssessed with the whole baby matter. He thinks that's all i think about  It kinda is actually but he doesn't have to know that right!

Promised myself I was going to have a good day today  thnk i can do it?

Have a great day ladies...


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## Nordickat

JBT - talk to us instead   

MrsRock - I didn´t say before since it was only a one liner from you and I´m sure you have a support network in place anyway, but I´ve been to the same place as your sister more than once in my life so if you ever need to know how it is from the inside from somebody you are not emotionally attached to then feel free to pm me. Her reasons for being there are no doubt different from mine but the feelings that drove her there and kept her there are the same. And it works both ways as I don´t know what its like watching from the outside.

Wobs - I wasn´t phased by IVF because I assumed since it takes an average of 3 goes, well thats how long it would take. And yep, it would just make our babymaking journey a bit more exotic than others   Oh to go back to those Newbie Barbie days hey?

JBox - thanks for being fab   

Its my wedding anniversary today ...... thankfully DH forgot too    I´m allowed a present this weekend though, although not an iphone which would apparently be wasted on a technophobe like me.

Thanks for the votes of confidence, 
Katxxx


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## kitten77

mrs rock - 'friends' like that.....we all have them im afraid.  and im glad that she is the ex friend, you really dont need friends like that, and even tho you miss her well....you have to be selfish and think of yourself in this situation, and you defo do not need friends like that!  ive got a group of friends that we spend most of our social time in, a group of 8, and have been for years, but one couple (who thinks they are better than all the rest of us anyway), never ever asks how i am, ive been through 6 txs and not once did i get a text or call to ask how it was, and when they havent worked nothing ever mentioned, only about the fact i was drinking again.  and to be honest, they are more 'there' then friends, she always talks about her job etc, and she dont even know what i do....friends hey!!!! 

anyway, sorry to ramble there! think its on my mind as its only a matter of time they will become pregnant as they get everything in life that they want.....bitter me....never haha   

kat - your sounding strong! go and have fun on the weekend away and lean on dh if needs be but being away will do you the world of good oh and major CONGRATES on the tender - and tell the bully to stick it up his ****! haha

wingum - thanks for the pm, will reply in a bit!

JBT - yep i think my dh thinks i only talk about babies, but it is a major part of our lives so what do they expect - good thing is dh is great about it all. i love him so. 

oh and kat - happy anniversary!!!!!!!!! 

AFM - well, bit of a shock today, been having tummy problems for about 2 weeks, thot it was my IBS back again, but today im (sorry TMI but know i can talk to you about anythning here i hope) well today im pooing blood and alot of it, so i rushed myself to the docs, she dont know what it is, gotta go back tomorrow for bloods and samples and if it is any worse then i have to be rushed to hospital and she sent me home for bed rest!!!!!!!! hows that for a dull weds morning ! funny think is i only feel a bit under the weather, so feel a bit of a fraud for being off work. but know its bad as cant really stand up without pain.  hope its nothing to serious!!!


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## kitten77

haha, love the way it changes the word ar$e to ****..... (has it done it again....?)


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## Nordickat

Oh Kitten - I hope you are OK    If the Dr says bed rest then follow their orders. 


I love the way FF changes stuff too. I was talking about my pup chasing b i t c h e s on heat which it changed to ´women´ so it sounded like he was humping people


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## vw22

Wow Kitten, hope you have your feet up and are having some serious bum-rest. That sounds really painfull...


Kat, heres to some time out for you. You made me laugh though cos I had a bald and bullying business partner that I think must have also rubbed his head to get it up his err-hum easier.


Wobs, before I even did my first IUI I thought I would need IVF not because I had any physical proof but just cos I thought I was the luckiest girl in the world to be with my man and it would be too wonderful to then just get pregnant. But I never expected to be talking the S word.


JBT even though I am out of baby trying world (husband away, no treatments equals no chance) I still think about it non-stop!


Mrs Rock, hope you and Mr Rock are getting through the hours ok.


Hi to everyone else!


***Quick question***
Any thoughts on having old fillings taken out? I know you aren't supposed to when trying etc but has anyone had them specifically to help get pregnant


vx


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## pinkpixie

Kat - Enjoy your days away, and happy wedding anniversary. You do come across as very strong and although i have never suffered myself i have watched my sister and DH struggle with depression so admire you for dealing with it.

Wobs - i remember starting the treatment and being excited and thinking it would work first time   

kitten hope you are feeling better that sounds horrid   

JBT- my dh acusses me of being obsessed as well and yes i prob am its so hard not to be though

Mrs Rock - hope you feeling better no matter how many times you go through this process i think you still obssesively symptom spot.   for your ex friend some people are increadibly self obsessed

vw22 - sorry but no not heard of anyone having fillings removed for specifically that reason

AFM feel like i am in limbo a bit at the mo have wrote letter to PCT (asking for funding to be transferred) just need to type it and post it. Diet is out the window just had pizza beans and smiley faces for tea   will have to knuckle down to it when we get back from hols!!
xx
h


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## pinkpixie

sorry dont know why message has gone all weird


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## JBox

Well this thread has been busy over the last couple of days…

Mrs Rock, for years, I had a really close girl friend,  In all the time I knew here, she never actually met anyone, but it never really seemed to bother her so much and that was something that I liked about her – her carefree independence. When dh and I got married she was the best woman at our wedding,  and she rose to the occasion, loved playing the part  (she always loved being the center of attention) I really considered her one of my closest friends and we had spent years doing things together. She had had some rough times, and I was always there for her, sometimes (as my dh said) at the expense of myself. Anyway, I was lucky and fell pg very quickly after getting married and I had my lo. I was very aware of not excluding  my friend, you know how some women do when they have kids, and they sort of leave their single or no-baby-friends behind. I probably did the opposite and over compensated and included her in everything, went out of my way to see her without baby or dh around etc. Anyway, within about six months my friend now aged 42 decided that she wanted to have a baby on her own. I totally supported her and was with her all the way. She started with iui but after a couple of failed attempts she moved on to IVF. Throughout her txs, I called her endlessley to see how she was getting on, always wanted to let her know that I was there for her. I went to visit her whenever I could ( we were now living an hour away) and offered her a shoulder to cry on when it didn’t work out. It was a difficult situation to be in, I suppose it kind of looked like I was the one who had it all, but I was very very aware of not rubbing anything in her face, and I always tried to be sensitive to her. Anyway, after her first EC I asked her if she wanted to come stay with us to recuperate. I had just suffered my 2nd miscarriage at this point and was feeling quite down and having her around while dh was at work would have been nice but she didn’t come chosing to stay  with a 'new' friend of hers, who happened to be my oldest friend who I grew up with and who I introduced her to. Anyway a short time later, my dr informed me that I was going to have to embark on the IVF route, as I had done 5 attempts at IUI and nothing had really come of it. I was bricking it and turned to my friend for advice. She had just  a few days before broken the news that she was now 11 weeks pg and she was deliriously happy as I was for her. Well when I called her, her reaction to me was completely blasé  - she was very much of the frame of mind "its no big deal" etc. Her only support was logistical and she recommended I went to see her dr (who I absolutely hated but that’s another story!) Well to cut to the chase, after my 4th attempt of IVF and after just getting another BFN, I called her absolutely devastated. I had been holding it together for so long with my dh, with my sd who had come to live with us, for my lo and hadnt really shared my feelings with anyone but at that moment I  just wanted to talk to someone who knew what it was like. Well, she was so so insensitive, hard, nasty even, that when I put the phone down, I was in absolute shock. She had been completely dismissive and her parting words were "listen im running out the door, I don’t have time to talk to you now, but hope you are ok!". I tried to justify it, she was busy with her new born, she wasn’t in the right head space to deal with me and I let it go, but she did not pick up the phone for ten days after that. And when she did call it was just for a quick chat to say hi, talk about her baby and catch up. There was no, "how are you doing? How are you feeling?" No "Im sorry that it didn’t work out!" Nothing. So I wrote her an email explaining how I felt, how sad I was and how I really thought I could count on her for support, especially as she had been thro it. Well her email back to me was the shocker - she basically said that she didn’t think we should be friends anymore, that I had too high expectations from her, that we are in different places and that she cant give me what I need from her. That was one year ago and I haven't heard from her since.  So I know what you are going thro and how difficult it is. I have no justifcations for other peoples behaviour but all I can say is that some people are just not tuned into other peoples emotions and they never really will be. And those are the people you have to leave behind. They are not worth your effort, your time or your energies, and when you are going thro what you are going thro right now, you just cant focus on them.  

KAT darling, I hope you have a nice weekend away and manage to stay afloat. We are here for you and hope you can check in over the next couple of days, coz we will miss you if not….

Kitten – what the fks going on luv? Whats with the blood? Have you beeen back to dr to check out?

JBT – are you ok? I see you decided to go to US  - I hope you can make a good holiday out of it and put all thoughts of treatments on hold until you get back.

Wobs / Han – I was a primary school teacher when I lived in uk. Lovely job, nightmare workload, I take my hats off to you!

VW and Winegum, hope you both ok. VW I am seriously intrigued to see where you are at with everything. Have everything crossed for you. 

Pinkie – how you doing luv? 

AFM, well, pains still there in my lower tummy and back, no boob pains, which worries me, coz always had that with other pgs and feeling exhausted all the time. Sorry for the TMI, but had lots of black gunk coming out of me today, which is also really worrying me. My dh is away on a biz trip over the week we are supposed to be going for our first scan,so we wont be going for another 3 weeks and there is no follow up between now and then so I am very stressed. I think I will go and get my bloods checked again tomorrow just to make sure eveyrthing is going in the right direction, I am so sceptical and so bloomin nervous….. 

Big love to you all….


----------



## wobs

Jbox     what a story about your 'friend'....I always try and hang on to the fact that 'people are people' ie they'll do things we can't understand etc... but really sometimes I just don't get stuff!!! 
Hope you're doing ok.  Why don't you call your clinic? No point worrying unnecessarily (as if you won't anyway!) re: black sutff for next few weeks before you scan & hopefully they can put your mind at rest. 

Ladies - I'm glad it wasn't just me back in newbie barbie days all excited and not cynical....Had my mum yesterday telling me she was praying for a miracle and it could happen.  I explained calmly and rationally that really it could not...grrrrrrrrrrr   I know she means well tho'

Kitten - hope you're ok and bed rest has sorted you out? Poor you.  Sounds nasty and painful.

Vw - sorry don't know about filings...are they the metal ones  You can tell I really don't know what i am talking about can't you   

Pinkpixie - what are smiley faces for tea?   like the sound of them

Kat - Happy Anniversary....love the fact you're not allowed an iphone.  My DH hogs the ipad - and have to confess that he changes stuff and I really don't know what he has done or how he has done it.  doesn't stop me enjoying playing with it though.  I have a 'smart' phone and its all I can do to make calls and text   

JBT - obsessed....no not us, surely not    I make an effort when we go out not to talk about baby stuff but somehow I always seems to come back to it....oh dear...

Mrs Rock - hope you're doing ok.

Hi everyone else
ttfn
Wobs


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## kitten77

morning all, wow what a change to be at home in the morning. 

Jbox - call the clinic i would, otherwise you will just worry and it will be nothing, your body been through alot babe.

wobs - yep i was all happy and like someone has said, felt slightly excited when we were told needed ivf....oh if only we knew hey! maybe it was a defence thing im not sure. 

VW - i dont know about fillings either babe, so cant really help, i know they dont put the metal ones in now, but about taking them out....no idea. have you asked your dentist? if it would put your mind at rest maybe look into it.

Pink P - yum yum smiley faces for tea! love em (wobs - smiley faces are a potato shaped food in shape of smiley faces!!!!! ie, like alpherbet letters?)

afm - feeling much better today, gotta go back to the docs today for blood tests and samples and to see if i need to go to hospital, but i will put up a fight about that! (will mess up alot of plans!!! haha). wonder what it is tho. 

at a loose end now! what shall i do! ive already had a packet of crisps and mars bar and a coke!!!!!!


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## wobs

JBT - sorry meant to say name of book "The Insulin-Resistance Diet"...an interesting read.

Oh smiley faces sound yummy then....have to say have never tried them but they sound good!  MIght be looking next time I'm out shopping   

Kitten - hope all ok at docs   

Wobs


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## vw22

Jbox thats such a shame after all that to not be friends. People are so strange. I have a friend (who I don't see much) in hospital whos is texting me constantly to tell me how she is... crikey I have been in and out of hospital that much over the last 3 years that if I texted everybody everytime my phone would be worn out. For some people its all them, them, them. Hope the blood test results help relax you.


Kitten good to hear you are feeling better...hope the tests prove all is good.


Wobs ahhh bless your mum!


Pink pixie...weird messages are cool...sort of fits with the thread somehow!


Hi to all and hope Kat is having a good start to the weekend.


Don't worry if none of you know what I mean about fillings thats a good thing!!! 


By the way I wonder if there is a surrogate barbie yet?!


vx


----------



## pinkpixie

Mrs Rock love it  


Kitten glad you are feeling a bit better


JBox did you go for bloods??


VW22 you need to invent the surrogate barbie


Wobs you need to try smiley faces they are ace


Was reading back through the thread and was really about all the superstious stuff we do i went throigh a phase of having to wear something orange through 2ww cos dont you know that wearing that colour will make you pregnant    and also play games during the 2ww like if i get through those traffic lights before they change that will mean i am pregnant yes i know i am strange!!


AFM - Feeling bit better todya have actually just been for a run and also sent letter to PCT yesterday to see about getting our funding transferred.  Anyway off to watch the dressage at bramham 3 day event today and still need a shower and to muck my own horse out before we go so better get a shifty on.
xx
h


----------



## vw22

Not sure I can do the profile of the Surrogate Barbie? 


I suppose I am going to be (if this all happens) "The expectant mother of the surrogate baby" Barbie. 
Doesn't really have a "ring" to it does it??!!!!! 


But that profile I can imagine would be something like "on the one hand very demanding and neurotic that her surrogate barbie was clean living whilst herself being constantly out drinking and partying. Openly loving and caring of her surrogate barbie yet secretly jealous and miserable its her thats pregnant. 


Well I am not sure I want to buy that Barbie at all. Way too depressing!!! I think she wouldn't sell even in the sales!!!


ha ha


vx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Thanks ladies at least i don't feel like the only obsessed one  

Jbox how r u today? blood work done yet?

Kitten how r u feeling?

Kat Happy anniversary hon... hope u r having a good weekend...

vw mother of surrogate baby barbie kind of a mouth full, you'd be surprised may move off the shelves like wild fire, whatever the reason    

pinkpixie hey how u r doing well today...

Mrs Rock you know what sometimes i wonder why we are still friends! although we've been friends for thirty something years actually since prep school. But what put icing on the cake for me was when she and her 4 year old came over and she started to explain to him that i was trying to put a baby in the belly! this is after i had found out we were unsuccessful in our attempt and just out of hospital with ohss and bad allergies. Can u believe explaining that to a 4 year old, y ever for... hmmm after writing this i really shud rethink this friendship 

wobs thanks i will check it out...

Morning winegum & han....

it's a rainy weekend here in JA... the start of hurricane season yeah 

Have a great weekend ladies


----------



## billabong

Hello ladies

Winegum- Thanks for clearing the 'hidden C' up for me   I try not to look too deep into things but it is so easy to get carried away. Sorry to ask another question but who is this Dr Gorgy, I have heard a lot of people mention him? Is there a reason why you have chosen to see him in another city to where you live? Thanks xx

vw22- Hope you had a great break! Wishing you lots of luck on your new journey. What is the thing with fillings, I have quite a few really old ones.  

jbt- I know where you are coming from with the whole DH thinking that TX is all I think about!   I do sometimes forget how much it affects him too but some men are so different when it come to talking about their feelings. Sometimes my Dh is great and sometimes well he will just be quiet. I don't know what I would do without him though  

jbox- I know it is a little late but I just wanted to say a very quiet           xx

Han- Good luck with TX with OE, I would go for it too!

Mrs Rock- I understand totally how frustrating it can be to be given advice from someone who has gotten pg first time. I had a friend that had it work first time for her (which was great for her) but then she goes on and on about how difficult IF is and the whole TX and she just will not shut up grhh. She has told friends that she was quite relaxed about it and kept calm throughout. How can she compare her feelings to what us ladies feel on here   
This is why I love this thread because you all truly know what we really go through.

Nordikat- Glad your feeling a little better, great on getting out. Hope you had a nice anniversary  

Pinkpixie- Sorry you didn't get the result you wanted and I totally understand the sympathy thing. I don't mind when I get sympathy from someone that actually understands what I am going through but when someone that has kids and has had them at the drop of a hat tells you they know what you are going through..how can they? I have recently made a really good friend that has 2 children, she works as a counsellor for women that have had Mc and teenage pregnancy's etc. She mentioned that her children weren't planned, she loves them totally but she wouldn't have felt any different if she couldn't have her own children and had to addopt or foster. I found it so difficult not to say something to her but the sad thing is that she wouldn't have said that if she knew about my IF. I know that she is a great mum to her children but it hurt that she just doesn't know what she has. 

kitten- Are you thinking about seeing this Dr Gorgy? Would you pass on any info you get if you don't mind  
Hope you are feeling better now, sounded like you had a scary time.  

AFM I am hoping to start TX 2nd week of July, feeling really nervous as we are changing from IVF to ICSI. 
Before we start I am going to have the scratch done again and see if it helps this time.  

Big hugs to wobs, waikiki and anyone else I have missed xxx

PS Love the new name!!!


----------



## wobs

hi ladies

anyone had belated sadness after BFN before? Ours was quite a few weeks ago and at the time I was just like oh yes it hasn't worked again.  I think it is suddenly hitting me after lots of discussion with DH about whether we should go to ARGC or not (still going to initial consultation and going to see what they say)...I've felt really sad the last couple of days....I feel like its actually hitting me that it might not work.  After 6 goes you'd have thought I'd have worked it out earlier    I still don't want to give up but can't see it happening for us.  Sorry for me post

Wobs


----------



## vw22

Hi All,


As its a bit quiet on here I thought I would just drop in a quick note on what the surrogacy stuff involved just in case its of any interest. So I don't go on too much, if anyone wants more details just ask!
* For us the US is our only option to do it as we live in NZ and the legal system very difficult. I have looked at other countries too though.
* We signed up an agency to find the surrogate. You can do this personally but we need a lot of support for the process as we don't live there so decided to go with an agency.
* We found a doctor and DH did his stuff so they are already to go for the IVF bit.
* Am now looking for an egg donor. This bit is horrible. Believe me anonymous (which is what I am used to in spain) is far easier. 
* Its all ridiculously expensive.
* Everyday I have a wobbly moment and worried that I am going to hate someone else being pregnant but not me, and that I won't love the child because I have no biological connection to it. But my husband says he sees how much I love the orphan lambs on our farm and I will be fine!!!!!!!!!!!! So of course everything will be ok then. (!!!)


Billabong. Dr G in London is all about immunes interfering with getting pregnant. There is a wonderful thread on FF, go check it out but be prepared, its a complicated and exhausting thing to get in to!


Wobs. You poor thing. Its awful when you get hit with a wave of sadness you thought you weren't going to get. The trouble is hormones go a bit haywire anyway with all these treatments so don't be too hard on yourself. I can't remember your history...how old are you? Would you ever consider Donor Eggs? The fact you are considering going again says to me you are not ready to give up. vx


----------



## Mrs Rock

Wobs big hugs to you. Has something unconnected happened recently which has made you sad?  As I find sometimes sad feelings about one thing can call up sad feelings about something else....or is that just me.  I do have moments when it hits me over again and I wonder how long I can keep doing this.  Usually at the end of the day when I am tired just before bed.  I tell myself I'm tired and feel differently when I'm not and try to stop thinking about it.  The ostrich has nothing on me, I tell you    We have been planning to move to ARGC as well and it's daunting because of how full on tx is there.  Also every one keeps saying how busy the clinic is at the mo, that it's never been busier, I just worry about things slipping through the cracks.  But given they have the best success rate I don't think I could give up before having a few goes there.  


vw thanks for the info.  Am I being dim - is the egg donor going to be the same woman who is the surrogate or someone different?  That must be so hard, having to select.  DH and I have discussed egg donation for if we should need it, and I tell myself that if the child was related to DH then I would love it because of that, as well as because I was in a sense 'adopting' him/her.  I know the surrogate adds another dimension but I think the DH connection would still hold true for me.  I won't lie, I think it will be tough for you that someone else is pregnant.  But that is for 9 months and then you have the child forever.  Your own family unit.  I hope that helps and doesn't seem like a facile thing to say.  I am worried I might offend as I don't know a huge amount about surrogacy.  I don't want to sound like a Newbie Barbie on the subject   


Billabong, I am Dr Gorgy's patient, happy to answer any questions.  Google his website Fertility and Gynaecology Academy.  Also thread by that name in the London section on here.  But also read Agate's FAQs in the section on 'Investigations and Immune Issues'  Much of it blows my mind and I'm not totally convinced about it - it is controversial - but again, if I didn't try everything there is to try, I think I'd regret it in the future.


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Wobs so sorry hun     take your time and these drugs do plan a nasty game on us...

vw I applaud you for going through with the surrogacy... it is not legal here in Jamaica either so not an option for me. And I am not sure if i could do it, like you i would wonder if I would be jealous of the pregnant woman! but congrats on your brave step forward and I am sure you will find the perfect carrier and soon have the perfect little munchkin  

hey everyone not much to say today... didn't sleep well, had lots on my mind and we are having terrible weather here. A tropical depression passing over the island and had a few power cuts throughout the night.

have a lovely day ladies


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## wobs

thanks ladies

I've been busy house tidying and gardening, oh and baking a yummy cake, which has all made me feel a bit more rational.  

VW - thanks for sharing your surrogacy journey.  I imagine it is all a minefield of emotions but does all sound very positive   
I don't know how I feel about the egg donor scenario - it was always sperm donor we have been told could help us, and only after last cycle was egg donor raised.  I am definitely happier about donors than DH is....Want to go to ARGC and see what they say and go from there i guess.

Mrs Rock - I know what you mean.  I think I have been feeling generally a bit down.  Work is not great at the moment, and I think that can have a huge impact.  My due date would have been in a few weeks (my SIL is due any day too) and although I know its silly as it was never a viable pregnancy I was still pregnant for 9 weeks (didn't miscarry til then) and I think a little part of me keeps remembering that - even though I know its daft.  Just typing that makes me feel sad    Oh dear!!!  Anyway I hope a good night's sleep will help me feel better.
Hope you don't need to go to the ARGC    (sorry I know no PMA allowed!   )

JBT - hope the powercuts stop

well best go and get on I guess.  can't surf on here forever!!!
Wobs
ps thanks!  this thread is great


----------



## kitten77

Hi everyone.e, bare with me as posting on phone!

First off, wobs... Yes me! I get waves of sadness all the time, my last bfn was in march and even now I feel sad, I didn't have a tx for well over a year before that and I was hit by waves of sadness. And it us worse now as for the first couple if times I had the pma that it work next time.... Now..... Pma is waining.... And more and more wondering if it would ever happen. So yes it does happen to the rest if us. 

Jamica, hope weather us getting better.

Mrs rock, hugs
Vw thanks for the info, hope it all goes perfect for you!

As for me im in bed as got more poorly, I'm now worried about work as I am the only one whoi can do the job and they Sony be very happy with me for taking time off.... So more worrying over that. I know I shouldn't worry but can't help it, as know there is loads if work to do and people need info to do their jobs.

Hello to everyone.


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## Mrs Rock

Wobs    it's not silly.  I was only pg for 7 weeks and I remember it vividly.  It is sad and hard to let go of it.  I found out 2 weeks ago that my mmc was due to a chromosome defect (extra copy of chromosome 22 which apparently is very commonly responsible for early mmcs).  We've been checked and it isn't a hereditary defect from us, it was just bad luck.  But I still feel sad that it wasn't to be. 

Kitten, what did the Dr say?  What is wrong?    Very worried that you have got worse.  Forget work!  I know what you mean about being needed there but nothing is more impt that your health.  

vw maybe it would make it easier that the pregnancy would be happening abroad.  So you won't be seeing her as often as if it was happening here?  Staring a bump in the face is never easy that's for sure.


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## vw22

I went to Argc for a consultation but ended up at Lister in the end. Mainly because I didn't like the meeting I had. Good luck if you go there, they certainly get great results.


Mrs Rock – No its a different egg donor to the suggogate. What I am going for is called Gestational surrogacy not Traditional surrogacy (genetic link). Anymore questions just ask although its not really on most people heres thoughts at the moment which is good!


JBT thats so nice to say that. Thank you. I don't feel brave at all just completely scared!!! Hope the tropical depression passes soon... all those negative ions around you?!


Wobs I am expert on the egg donor route if you ned me but am hoping ARGC will sort you out without it.


Kitten you really sound under the weather. I hope you are getting all the advice and help you need? Can you work from home in bed? You must look after yourself first, everyone else will have to wait. Please take care of yourself.


Hi to everyone else. vx


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## vw22

Mrs Rock. Good point! vx


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## jamaicababytrying

Pwercuts have stopped yah!

Weather still sucks, raining still... have heard of some flooding in areas... i really dislike hurricane season!

Kitten you come first my dear, work will wait... or they find a way to figure it out! I really hope u feel better soon though... I am like you had my negative in March and it still hurts so much... it is like a flipping rollercoaster and I do not like roller coasters. 

wobs you know I was thinking of baking something yummy too, then i said i can't be bothered not in the mood! And i am usually in the mood to bake, love it.. it's my stress relief 

I really do need to go on the road but this darn rain... and hubby watching tennis! 

i guess i will soon have to go fix dinner   now that's where i have lost all interest cooking! and to think i used to love it... 

I guess sometimes I think if i had a child we'd be making such great things in the kitchen    

ahhh well back to this gloomy day   to all


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## Mrs Rock

JBT I hate cooking, my idea of haute cuisine is putting a chicken breast under the grill!  I often worry that if I had a child would I be able feed it!


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## wobs

hehehe Mrs Rock re: haute cuisine....I'm with you there...but I do like baking - nothing better than a nice cake or pudding...yummy   

Kitten - hope you start feeling better soon & the docs are on the case   
Forget work! (that said we are all the same!!   )

JBT - hurricane season sounds fun - noT!!!  My hubby was watching tennis too.  At least we have 2 weeks respite before Wimbledon starts...I like watching it too but not for hours on end.  

VW - have a feeling i might feel that about the ARGC and stay at the Lister - we'll see!  thanks   

Right best go and get some dinner sorted
Have a good week
I'll be back at work (half term over   ) so no doubt back to my useless rare postings!
Wobs


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## JBox

Hey everyone - am also on phone so apologies for any mistakes...

VW thank u for sharing. I think ur amazing really! What a brave step to take but one that will give u the end result that we all desire. I think ur one cool lady to explore this option especially when u have to go abroad to do it. I think of SJP and her gorgeous  babies and how they are HER babies and she has said quite categorically states that she feels no different about the way they came into the world as her first child came. Listen the whole DE thing is a head fk I can say that as I am having major loss of sleep over it at the mo - not that I haven talked and discussed it til the cows come home but its really odd. But at the end of it a baby is born to YOU and for you to raise and I think the way that child comes into the world is irrelevant.. I am so behind u as I am sure everyone is here.

Just on another note, did u say u live in NZ? wow what a country loved it. Where about r u?

JBT - hope the weather is easing up

KITTEN - are u ok hon? Ur really having a bad time. Please don't worry about wo
rk. U get urself better first and then worry bout the other stuff. 

MrS ROCK - how r u hanging in there?

WOBS - daling oh I hear u loud and clear! I spent 3+ yrs being sad but the sadness would come out of the blue at the most bizarrest of times - out with friends for dinner or at the cinema - places and times totally unrelated to a failed tx. Sometimes we don't take something in when it happens its like a delayed shock or something. Big big hugs

Kat - if ur reading hope the weekend was ok we miss u here

Everyone else hi.
Love this thread xxxxx


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## Nordickat

JBox - I am convinced your baby is just snuggling in tight and causing the aching and stuff. I´ll keep hoping hard that all is well.

MrsRock - I´m sure your sister gets all the support she needs from you. There is no way I could ever talk to my DH properly about what is in my head as it would break his heart (and my family don´t even know my history let alone about the today). Your sister will be the same and be honest with her shrink and just get the love from you. I hope the 2ww isn´t turning you too crazy and you are also on my list of hoping with all my might ....... and look what the power of Kat though did for JBox   

Wobs -   You really are not alone in the feelings coming from nowhere. Just as you recover something random happens that sets you right back to square one again. I suspect your due date coming up isn´t helping and don´t under estimate how important that date is for you. And I hope your monday blues aren´t too bad after your week off.

JBT -   it sounds like you need some real tlc. Be kind to yourself   

vw - I think you should wait a while for writing your surro babie description. Surrogacy is illegal here too, and its the US and Russia that I have mainly looked into, although there are some Eastern European countries too. The US is my favourite though although also the most expensive. I know adoption is completely different so my thoughts on that are irrelevant but I´ll share them anyway   . We have been through the whole loving another persons child thing with our adoption grilling, and once we got into the nitty gritty, it became really obvious to everyone that a biological connection was not what we wanted deep down and having a family is what we really wanted by whatever means. Of course its very different to watching somebody else actually having your baby but once your baby is on your arms, how it got there will be the last thing on anyones mind. I hope that actaully sounds how I mean it, my mind is a bit haywire at the mo lol.

Kitten - I think we are all really worried about you so please keep us updated and more importantly do what the Dr says. Its not like having a bit of a cold, this is important so do as you are told, and forget about work as somethings are way more important.

Pinkpixie, Han, WG, and Billabong    to you all too.

Katxxx


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## vw22

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on all this.


Jbox, I really don't think I deserve your lovely comments as at the moment I do not feel brave or cool at all. The trouble with our situation will be that we'll be using donor eggs. So its another woman having a baby that isn't mine anyway. All very strange. 


When doing donor eggs into me, it was so different. Because I would have been carrying it I wasn't worried about not being able to connect and feel part of it. But donor eggs in someone else just feels so distant. 


Kat you are right its very close to adoption even though its better because there is my husbands biological link. 


I think you are both right, when it happens I will love it whatever, its just hard to see it at the moment. 


Everything just feels like a compromise. First you compromise on this, then that and you get so far down the line that nothing looks remotely like the dream you had years ago. 


Sorry moan moan moan!


The other thing is I feel I am addicted to fertility treatments! When nothing is happening it feels so weird.


Mrs Rock thinking of you for tomorrow. 


vx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Thinking of all you lovely ladies

Forecast says more rain   

I am so tired but too afraid to try and sleep since it is only 6p.m. that would mean not being able to sleep later! so i will force myself to stick it out  

wobs my husband reminded me that Wimbledon is in 2 weeks too.. .i really don't even like watching it i just do it to keep him company... he used to play so he likes it all... tennis, football, cricket blahblahblah oh and basketball! 

vw u deserve all the big ups you are getting, what u r doing is quite a feat and commendable... i know i want a family and i have know that forever but i am not sure i can do either surrogacy or adoption... i know i know i will do anything possible to get to my goal, please don't crucify me for that statement... i just know i f i am there yet... i want the whole package    
anyway congrats and i hope u find the ladies to fulfil your dream  

Have a happy Monday


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## Nordickat

vw - I understand what you mean about the compromises. Each step you take seems to actually take you further from your original dream. I guess you just have to hang on to the fact that once your new reformed dream is home with you, the original dream will be so far in the past you hardly give it a second thought. And as for your tx adiction, I´m with you there   . It becomes such a big part of our lives. I know in my heart I´ll never get a BFP but I can´t stop tx because I´ll have nothing to replace it with, nothing to fill my life with, just the big empty whole that tx leaves when its nolonger part of our family. I do worry about losing sight of the goal and there must be cheaper hobbies than this making babies the hard way! Oh, and one more thing, I think JBox was doing subliminal PMA stuff   


JBT - stay dry


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## vw22

Kat, oops I didn't get that. In order to balance it...


Good luck to everyone today. I hope that this Monday more than any other before is a lovely one!


 


vx


----------



## Nordickat

vw - I've just remembered what I originally came on to blether about this morning. I have question that maybe you can answer. Whenever I've started to look into surrogacy I always walk away again because I'm scared of relying on somebody else to get a BFP on my behalf. What if they get BFNs too? I might as well have been trying myself if thats the case. Does the surrogate and donor combo have a much better chance of success than us? Thats the bit that worries me, that I'll just head for more heartache but not even feel any control over it. I hope that doesn't sound negative about your journey becasue I'm not, but you said we could ask questions   . I'm just curious how you got yourself over that hurdle because thats where I always get stuck.

JBox is sneaky like that   

 Katxxx


----------



## JBox




----------



## vw22

Ahh its me being daft. I have been looking at Mrs Rock's signature date and getting it mixed up with Jbox!!!


Anyway...


Kat. Well thats how I felt and thats why when I went bouncing in to the US doctor with all my notes, I thought he would just say but you are fabulous and unexplained and so many near misses, let me have a go, I'll get you up the duff. But NO. He didn't even consider me. 


He just said we needed a girl that had donated at least twice before (proven donor) with pregnancies and a surrogate that had been proven and you put them together and you get this amazing proven fertile combination that is so far beyond what I was. Needless to say I didn't like him. So in answer to your question and even though I hate to admit it, yes there are people out there that naturally have a better chance than me and if you put them together the chance of success is almost 90%. Yes miscarriages can happen. Yes bfn can happen too. But they are dealing with almost dead certs right from the beginning. Does that make sense?


BUT all those things you are scared of are the things I am scared of. But what I keep getting reminded is that we are used to disappointments as thats all we know. 


Keep asking the questions!


vx


----------



## Nordickat

You are way more observant than me vw!
   for your today MrsRock. I'm hoping my little socks off that you are our next BFP.

And thanks vw, it does make sense. So how do we catch this super fertile disease that all those lucky ladies have?


----------



## Mrs Rock

Hi girls

I didn't want to interrupt the discussion earlier.

Well I have been up since 2.30am, finally tested at 5am and I have a BFP but it is so incredibly faint.  Any fainter and it would not be there at all.  It should really be called an STP (Small Thin Positive).  DH couldn't believe how faint it was.  My BFP in Feb was a strong dark line so have to assume this isn't the best sign.  Here's me thinking I would know one way or the other today!  This is senidng me doolally.


----------



## Winegum

*Mrs Rock: *    Keep us updated on the line darkening of successive pee sticks. Are you going to have any bloods done? really hoping you get some reassurance soon.
Big hugs
WG x


----------



## Nordickat

MrsRock - we were only chatting to pass the time while we waited to hear your news   . I'll keep up my hoping until the line is officially dark enough


----------



## JBox

Mrs Rock - how frustrating !!!is today OTD? are you doing bloods?... keep us updated. 

Praying and wishing and crossing fingers, toes, eyeballs and everything else for you that its a real bfp (but doing it quietly and with absolutely no PMA at all!!!!)


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Morning Ladies, at work and really not feeling like being here  still raining  and I don't live in the UK 

So *Mrs Rock * all parts of me crossed for you honey... I pray the line gets nice and dark... Aren't you going to do a blood test?

*JBox* how r u feeling?

Ladies I know I am a bit daft and still trying to learn all these acronyms but I have been meaning to ask what in heaven's name is PMA? sorry for being a dolt 

Well another Monday and I am so not feeling the whole work thing... Had a good night's sleep finally... but now i have begun thinking about the future and FET or another cycle or what else...

Anyway have a lovely day ladies...


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## vw22

Mrs Rock...hoping its the start of something... and don't see why it can't be!!! vx


----------



## Han72

Bonjour!

Mrs Rock - aline is a line is a line, you honestly can't tell a damn thing by how dark it is! So tentative "WOOP WOOP!" and     to you but pretty please if you want to avoid the "am I, aren't I" headmasher can you get some bloods done? Preferably 48 hours apart...       

JBT - Rah! Hurricane season?! I thought that was from September onwards?! If it's any consolation the weather appears to be identical in France (at least where I am!) the UK and JA i.e. uncomfortably humid and grey BLAH  PMA - positive mental attitude. Also known as "a load of complete b......s"

Tut tut, Jbox and her sneaky PMA    

Sorry no more persos it's all going off here - hate it when DH works from home sometimes, there's nothing worse than hearing him talking to people the way I hate to hear French people talk to me 

xxx


----------



## kitten77

mrs rock!!! 0mg fantanstic, and a line is a line is a line.....!!!! hope it gets darker or the bloods come back good. im so pleased for you.

just popped on to say hi - sorry for no personals, went to the doc again this morning, having a couple of more days off and then i will go back to work on weds, as i cant have any other time off, not with redundances etc, and it wont look good for me.  gotta go back to the docs on friday to see if i have to go to hospital for more tests.  just dont have any get up and go just feel really tgired all the time. hope they find something out. 

anyway, hope everyone is well and pop back later. xx


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## jamaicababytrying

Hi Han thx for the heads up... yep hurrican season is from June 1 to November 30 joy joy... hopefully the rain has let up for the rest of the day... it's still kinda blah out there though...

Where in France are you? and how in heaven's name did you reach there? aren't your parents Jamaican? or did they migrate years ago like a whole lot of them did?


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## Han72

I'm near Paris hon, made the huge error of marrying a Frenchman and then falling for the "grass is greener" line   Maybe it is but I don't care about the bloody grass, I care about friends and family and being in a country where people aren't deliberately rude to everyone else due to some completely misplaced sense of superiority... 

Ooh look, I did a little rantette!    

The 'rents came from JA, met in London, moved to Hampshire when I was a kid (why?! WHY??!!) and there's a ton of family in London, the rest are spread out around the UK, JA, US, Canada.... erm... I think that's everyone accounted for    We J'cans do get around don't we?!


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## pinkpixie

Mrs Rock congrats    pray that line gets stronger for you.


Kat how were your few days away??


VW like others have said i think you have come so far in this journey and it ends up with goals changing as more and more sh*t happens.


JBT hows the rain


Jbox how are you getting on??


Kitten hope you are feeling better rest whilst you can its not much fun having to work when you arent well


wobs ho did first day back go??  With quite a few of my treatments the saddness and anger has hit a lot later normally its something completley random setting me off and its normally in the car so end up driving whilst sobbing hysterically   


AFM PCT are having their meeting tomorrow and will discuss our case for the funding being moved so fingers crossed.  Dont know if anyone else is the same but i do sometimes wonder if this is what we want, i never wanted children until i met DH and wonder now if the desire i have it more becuase i know its unlikely it will happen for us sort of cos i know i cant have it i want it all the more it makes me doubt everything and now we have started down this route almost cant stop but feel as though i have lost sight of it all.  I origionally said i wouldnt have IVF now 5 treatments later am considering the 6th, said we would stop after 3 and said wouldnt have immunes done and have now had all immunes down and agreed to the treatment. Start to wonder if we have lost sight of the end goal and become more focussed on the actually getting pregnant than us as a couple.  Sorry none of that really makes sense and am woffling now so will go
xx
h


----------



## Winegum

Pixie, it makes perfect sense.  Will add my thoughts soon.  Just realised that in my current "lurk and mini-post" state I haven't acknowledged your situation Kitten.  I'm worried about you but you don't sound too stressed?? Are you OK?  Like the others said - put yourself first and work really can wait.  Surrogacy chatter v interesting.  Ditto j'can ladies!  Haven't we done well having 2 x 2 pee stick lines (notice the careful use of language) in as many weeks? Wehey the thread!  Does anyone gave anything to tell me about sperm DNA fragmentation tests?  Must away to cut dh's hair.  Back later in week.  Big hugs to all x

By the way, whoever asked what PMA means "positive mental attitude" and we like NMA on here! (insert negative or neutral depending on mood!)


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## jamaicababytrying

The *^@$%*@$^(@ rain still fallin'

Mrs. Rock any more news for us?

You know when you are at work and you don't feel like working! that's me today...

Han mi dear wi everywhere! egg we inna di red! one day one day i will be able to visit those lovely places France, UK, Norway, New Zealand, Spain etc... haven't been to London since i was  a child...

Have a lovely evening ladies probably go to the movies with hubby tonite it's 2 for 1 Mondays


----------



## vw22

pinkpixie understand you loud and clear. I left from NZ with enough in my suitcase for 3 months to try treatment in UK and here I am in spain after trying more. Its hard to give up. And then I was worried I wanted to be pregnant more than actually have children.


Winegum. I hoped DNA fragmentation tests were going to be the answer to everything but couldn't get him the tests easily here. Anyway he had it in the US and all normal so I was hanging on a very thin straw anyway. What do you need to know?


vx


----------



## wobs

Hi 
just wizzed on to see how you got on yesterday Mrs Rock - as the others say a line is a line        

personals later
Wobs


----------



## Nordickat

MrsRock - I hope the line is a wee bit darker this morning     

Kitten - please make you #1 until you get better. They can't make you redundant if you have a sick leave with a Dr note, they wouldn't dare to even try it. Your health is the most important thing right now.

Pixie - my weekend had its moments   I think we all feel we lose sight of our goal occasionally and we all talked about it here a while ago and seemd to all feel the same at some point. I wonder if its a self defence thing? Failing to beat IF is frustrating and upsetting and makes us angry and feel so [email protected], but failing to have a baby is truly heartbreaking, so maybe we actually try and forget our goal so we hurt less?

JBT - its humid and horrid here too which is pretty impressive for Norway 

I'm off for round 2 with the shrink in a bit so she can shake my head about and see what falls out   . Its not the best timing but I think I can fox her this time  .

Love to you all, 
Katxxx


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## vw22

kat the way you summed it up to pixie was perfect. I don't think I had looked at it like that either, simple but true.


Mrs Rock... hope you are not going too mad pee stick staring.



I have been trying to lose the medication fat that has built up after all those injections and stuff with walking loads, zumba (!) and sit ups. And someone said to me today, you have put on a bit of weight, it suits you! She was only being kind BUT NOT WHAT I WANTED TO HEAR!!!


But took my final prednisolone tablet this week, boy am I glad to see the back of that drug...


vx


----------



## kitten77

hi everyone, last day off sick today and so back to work tomorrow, been doing loads which is good, been cleaning, put a load of stuff on ebay and now trying to find a cat grooming service..... thats harder than i thought!  still feeling pretty poorly, but bit better. and the tablets the doc gave me to stop the ....hahum...poo.... has stopped it ok....for the worse!!!! arrgggh.

vw - oh hun, no not what you wanted to hear at all not with after all your hard work.....she could have ment tho that you look toned which is making you look better!  how do you find zumba? i always wanted to join a class. 

mrs rock....... - hows is going? darker

pixie - yep kat has summed it up, these emotions always make us question everything, i know that i loose sight of the end goal, but like kat said its prob a defence thing as we need to focus on something else really. 

kat - how did your session go

winegum - im ok really, just poorly tummy and docs dont know what it is.

hello to everyone else.


----------



## Nordickat

Hi, me again    I´m in a spot of bother and I really need some advice, advice from people who see it from my side too (I don´t mean agree, I just mean understand my side). This is going to be long, boring and honest so feel free to skip it   

Background first - my depression is not caused by IF and things started to go wrong 15 years ago but I buried it deep, but all the feelings associated with IF make it impossible for me to deal with and come to terms with the root cause. It was actually a very traumatic ec that triggered PTSD and brought it all out in the open although that is irrelevant as it happens. Anyway, if I was ever to get a BFP it would not be my cure and I would still have years of treatment ahead of me (apparently). I´m aware that most of my posts on here are completely normal and I take nothing seriously, but sadly thats not actually true. I am not coping with life in any shape or form and I know I have to do something before its too late. For the first time ever my shrink actually put her foot down and expressed an opinion on what I have to do so I guess its serious. She is calling my GP tomorrow and making me an emergency appt and also telling him what she thinks. What she thinks is that I really do need to take medication    She wants me to delay tx beyond september and get myself in a better state before I try again. I agree, and if it was anyone else I would support her decision, but its not anyone else, its me. I cannot even begin to express the feelngs of failure and fears I have that I would be a truly sh1te mother anyway so maybe I should just quit now blah blah blah.

The bit I need help with is the whole medication during tx and delaying things. My last 3 attempts have been in the last 12 months, 12 eggs, 7 eggs then 9 eggs. The first 2 used our sperm and I only got 2 fertilized eggs and what went back in was not great. Last time was donor sperm and we got loads fertilize but only one was left after day 3. I obviously have some egg issues but I don´t know my AMH/FSH so I don´t know how bad, but does the fact I get so many eggs mean I am doing OK, even if the quality is suspect? I am absolutely terrified of delaying tx and it being too late. I have no issue with donor eggs except its illegal here and I just don´t have the strength left in me to go abroad. I´m so scared that time is passing by and I will delay too long and then it´ll be too late to do anything and then its all over and I´ll beat myself up for the rest of my life for taking timeout. My other dilema is when to stop taking antiDs. They can reduce your response to stims and for all I have a good few eggs now, I might not if I´m on medication and my cycle might be cancelled or even worse, not cancelled but they only collect a couple of eggs which are likely to be duffers - I need lots to have a chance of a good one. And one final trauma is that coming off the medication is like nothing you will have ever experienced before (I hope) and its hell. Its only 2 weeks of hell but it is so awful it puts me off taking the them just because of the thought of stopping them.

So my choices are: 1 - don´t take the medication and carry on with tx in september knowing that my state of mind is probably detrimental to tx and that a BFN may finish me off, or I might not even survive to september anyway  . 2 - delay tx, risk my eggs being too old, take antiDs and stop before tx but with the risk that coming off too early could be as bad as not taking them at all. 3 - Delay tx and take medication all the way through tx and hope and pray that either my response is so poor that its cancelled so I don´t waste our last sperm and can try again, or that we get just enough good eggs that some fertilize. 

I need to way up the pros of feeling more OK, with the cons of medication but as I am currently not able to decide if I should eat or not I am in no way able to make life changing decisions - hence the shrink taking over   .

I don´t want answers from any of you, its just nobody else understands my fears of delaying or of poor response - they all think that a good state of mind and good old PMA will be the way to get a BFP. I´m not even sure why I posted it, I just needed to say it I guess to people who will not judge me for being me.

I´m sorry it is so horribly long. Its the last distressed post from me and tomorrow I´ll be back to normal. If you got all the way to the end, then thank you   .


----------



## Nordickat

vw - you  look gorgeus to me  
Kitten - don´t over do things tomorrow, ease yourself in gently


----------



## vw22

Kat, I think you are brilliant for posting. Its got help to have written it out rather than keep it in. You do know that everyone is going to want to help you with your decisions don't you?!!!!!!!!! So expect some responses.


I want to reread and have a think and then come back on. 


My initial reaction though is to try and separate the two things (although that may be impossible). 


Also you are so young still. Donor eggs will be waiting for you for years yet. So try not to feel under even more pressure to get things sorted right now.


Ok I am going to have a think and come back to you. vx


----------



## kitten77

kat - lost a massive post, so will try to remember what i said.

first off i too think it is fab that you are posting and not keeping it all to yourself. we do understand what you are going through on the tx front and the fact that you are torn in what you should do and that you feel time is 'running out' but i do think it says something if your therpist is giving their opinion on what is the best course of treatment for you. 

as you say only you can decide on what course of treatment is the best for you, but as everyone keeps telling me your health comes first.... and like vw has said, time isnt running out and options are available to you in the future, and health is mega important and think that has to be your main priority right now even your therapist things the same. 

obviously we will not tell you what to do or what way you need to go but the way you are talking concerning treatment and the what you are worriying about over i think you have to weight up the pros and cons, maybe write them down in a list and see what comes to you from there. 

im sorry i havent been any help but im sure others will offer their opinion, whether you want it or not as we worry about you!

please dont stop posting, we are here for you always will be, and as your friends we want to hlep as much as we possibly can. 

big hugs.


----------



## Winegum

Nordickat: What an honest and articulate post.  I think we have all experienced times when we have options, none of which are attractive, none of which show an obvious advantage and all of which make you feel bad about yourself and fearful for the impact the decision will have on you.  So we can understand facing a dilemma.  I am very familiar now with your dry self-deprecating wit but also know that this thread is a haven for you, so I also know when to take you seriously.  My instinct is to say put yourself first, but more because I still want you to be here in September more than anything else.  I wonder if it might help you to come to a decision by looking at what is most important to you and looking at the longterm view?  I'm going to guess that being well and having a family are most important to you.  Can I just ask - is adoption never an option for you now or might there be a time in the future when you may be considered?  The reason I ask is that there are options for having a family.  Maybe you can't face egg donation abroad now, but if you were well, could you in the future?  If you make your health a priority for the moment, it will fill the gap that tx leaves.  It will get you in good shape to continue dealing with IF and tx in the future.  I sense your fears and I know that it is difficult to undo plans you have made in your head and delay things.  I'm really trying not to give advice, just to provide a different perspective from which to look at your situation.  I expect your fears about being a s*** mum are a little bit more real than those of a woman who does not suffer with depression.  Would you feel like you would be a better mum if you tackled your depression first?  I hope all this comes across in the heartfelt way it is meant.  The only experience I have of depression us growing up with a Mum who suffered for years.  I'm going to stop now because I'm on my phone and it's difficult to assess what I've written so far.  Keep talking and we'll keep listening, and by the way, that wasn't what I would call a long post   xxx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Where do i begin... i agree with the other ladies... winegum u hit the nail on the head with what u said about first looking after yourself and then dealing with tx... you know i admire you for speaking out and asking for advise that is a good sign that you want to be better and to feel better... you are a brave woman in your own way and continue to reach out for help. I also can't give you advise but you have the right idea of listing your pros and cons and that will help you make the decision. But my silly advise is to take care of you first and then get on with tx you are still young, but i also understand that when we look forward to something and then have to delay it is seems like the worse thing, but sometimes it is the best thing... we all want you around and we all want to help so keep talking to us...

So on another note my brother and his family are going to Norway on Friday for a week what's the weather like? my sister in law's family is actually from Norway... so they are looking forward to that i think they are going to Oslo... my husband's uncle is also from Norway and i think his sister had some government post who knows just thought I'd drop that i nsomehow 

Hope everyone else is doing well... as for me the rain is still falling... a few flooding around the place we shouldbe having this weather for another couple days.


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## jamaicababytrying

Well said Mrs Rock!

Kat if i could reach into this computer and give u a big   i would... so here are some virtual ones


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## vw22

As I expected the girls have come through with some gentle but spot on words that I hope will help. 


Winegum reminded me of a really good way to approach things...


My only additional thing would be to look as far away as possible and work backwards not the other way round. Trying to see whats happening now and decisons to be made can be very pressurising and complicated.



Try thinking where you would like to be in say 5 years (like winegum said it would probably be healthy in yourself and with a family) and think backwards at how you might get there ie; 
1. What are your goals (or visions) for how your life would look in 5 years,
2. Then narrow it down to what you need to do in the next year (to get to the vision you have for life in 5 years)
3. Then what needs to be done in the next 6 months to get the goals you have set for the next year.


Crikey have I made that sound far more complicated than it should be! Its really very straightforward and when you write it down or even draw it, it takes it out of your head and gives you some space to breath.


Somehow by working backwards things get clearer. A question like "Whats the point of being pregnant next month if you don't feel strong in yourself" is like asking "Whats the point of building a house tomorrow if I am not sure where to build it"... or something?! 


Again I really want to say, donor eggs, surrogacy etc will be available to you in 10 years time so the pressure is not on from that side. I have gone from treatment to treatment fearing that time was slipping away but I am much older than you. 


Fear is a terrible thing. 


Maybe ask yourself, "If I had NO fear what would I do?" 


I expect you would say. I would chill out, get healthy, tend my bees and do everything I could to make my home (meaning your life wherever it is) the best environment possible to just live.


Sorry if I have rabbited but you never know there might be something useful there.
Take care of yourself. vx


----------



## pinkpixie

Kat first of all want to send you lots of     
The other ladies have offerred wonderful words of wisdom and i dont think i can really add to them.
Your health is the most important thing as you will need that for the future (if that makes sense)  the fact that your counsellor is stepping in suggests that you need to look after yourself.
Dont know if it would help but could you get your FSH/AMH done to put your mind at rest and i will second what others have said re that is not a bad number of eggs (I have only got 6 each time).  Is it poss to take different drugs to minimise the effect on tx??
My heart goes out to you and i hope you can manage to get things straight in your head.
Please dont apologise for posting on here just glad that you feel you have here to talk about it and that we will always try and understand.
xx
h
PS thanks for your words of advice before think its very true


----------



## Mrs Rock

vw am loving your new avatar


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## Mrs Rock

Ho hum, been awake since 3.  Yesterday I managed to sleep until 6 but my sleep pattern is clearly shot to poop by my anxiety.  I feel very calm but it is clearly surface only as whenever I am wound up I start waking up with the birdies.  Or before them!

So, 3 things.


1) JBox, how are you?

2) I did a First Response test yesterday morning and it was definitely positive.  Clinic say don't test again until Thurs if I want to compare them.  Still worried I will see the line getting fainter, can't allow myself to feel that this is real after last time and we are keeping our first consult appt at ARGC today to discuss contingency plan!

3)  Kat, on the subject of meds and response to stims, I remembered (doh!) after posting yesterday that I have actually been on 30-40mg amitriptyline for years for my nerve pain and I know this is used as an anti depresant in higher doses.  I am so used to it I just forgot.  Now this may not remotely be like anything they would put you on, but if it helps to know, I don't have PCOS but my ovaries go so bananas in response to stimms that they usually have to drop my dose down to the minimum after the first few days or even coast me to avoid risk of OHSS.  So amitriptyline has never affected my response, or if it has, I dread to comtemplate the scale of the party that would have started up in my ovaries without it, visions of sexed-up teenagers home alone having a ******** party and the police being called to turf out drunken OHSS gatecrashers spring to mind.  OK stretching the metaphor somewhat!  But you get what I mean, in case it is relevant to you.  Hope you're feeling a bit better today.


----------



## JBox

I have been off for a couple of days coz so much going on at work and life etc. Sorry for being awol.
Kat my sweet, I have known from ur posts here and on other threads as well as our pms that u r not doing great. It was obvious to me that u were suffering a lot more than u were letting on and even though ur great SOH and personality was coming thru, u still sounded a bit low.

I suffered more than anyone from IF impatience - 14 cycles in less than 2 yrs!!!!! In hindsight it was the tx where I was forced to take a break for a couple of months and get my body back into shape that was the one that worked. But it wasn't just the physical getting back into shape it was for me the emotional and mental break and making a change in my attitude. You know what they say healthy mind healthy body...

I think darling u need to get yourself better and take care of no 1 u r no use to anyone if ur not healthy yourself.

I don't know the effects of the meds u need to take but I'm sure that ur drs know what they r doing and I think u should trust them. Also ur dh wants u better and is worried about u and he ultimately wants what u want - a family - so his plan is to get u right first so u will make the best mum. 

You have time on ur hands don't stress about that. Just take this time to look after yourself eat well, do nice things for you, and have a goal that say by october or november, u will start again either on the meds or not.

We r here for you and don't go anywhere. Ok?

Huge huge hugs.

Mrs Rock - congratulations ! Told you!!!!!I'm doing ok thanks just waiting for another 2 weeks for scan.

Kitten hope ur feeling ok and return to work is ok.

On phone so can't do any more personals. Love to u all
Xx


----------



## Nordickat

Thank you for all taking the time to listen to me ramble. It is appreciated and now I´m just taking some time to think.

MrsRock - I hope thursday brings a nice dark line. Amitriptyline is a tricyclic so different to my SSRIs which do definitely show an increased chance of tx cancelation ........ although in Dr Beers book you will find the benefits of them.

Kitten - go gently today back at work.

JBT - Its about 20 degrees now but some days its blue scorching sky and other days its torrential rain. We don´t have much darkness at the moment though so eye masks might be handy for sleeping. I hope they have a lovely time and get to see more than just Oslo.

Winegum - You have given me my 4th option which I´ve been ignoring so thank you. You are right that my fears of being a [email protected] mother are real, the chance of me letting my children down is much higher than for you guys. I guess the thought of actually being a mother is so far from reality that I have not got that far yet. Option 4 is that I should maybe stop tx all together, maybe its selfish of me to try in case I just ruin more vulnerable lives in the process.

Thank you for being so honest. DH and I also had an honest chat which was so heartbreaking and if nothing else I have to sort this out so he can have his life back   

Time to eat cake and think. Have a lovely day one and all, 
Katxxx


----------



## Winegum

NordicKat: The fourth option won't necessarily be an option if you break everything down into bite sized chunks (including the cake!) and start with you.  You need to feel better about yourself and get to a stage where you think: God, being a mummy is a bit scary, but I know from my past experiences of handling projecs and loving people that I will be fine.  Incidentally the one thing my mum had any confidence and self esteem about was raising a family and despite her depression, raised 3 confident nice people who still want to go home occasionally.  I dont think you should consider the 4th option until you are in a more healthy state of mind, it is just another way of being hard on yourself.  I hope your thoughts lead you down a road where you can look back in 5 years time and say to yourself that it all worked out for the best. Have a good day.xxx

Hello to everyone else

Got everything crossed mrs rock and JBox!


----------



## Nordickat

MrsRock - I hope the seats are comfy at the endocrine clinic   . And no its not annoying that you talk about your sister - its good for me as your words come from experience.
Winegum - I'm glad your mum was a good mum. I was too scared to ask in case the answer was something I didn't want to hear.


----------



## Winegum

Nordickat: I think Mrs Rock hit the nail on the head in her post.  The only effect that my mums depression had on us is actually in adulthood, when we all wish she would be a bit more confident and assertive and that is no different from anyone's little complaints about their parents.  I think it had a much bigger effect on Dad.  Kids just see things through their own young eyes and will respond to your love by thinking you are the cleverest, prettiest, funniest mum in the world.  X


----------



## Nordickat

Just checking in for info on MrsRocks line intensity? Do you get bloods done?

JBox - sorry for the radio silence but I'm still hoping with all my heart that your little bubs is snuggling in tight.

Winegum - I worry very much about my poor DH and what he has go go through every day ........ I couldn't live with me thats for sure!

Ironically I've spent the last however long telling the world I don't need medication and now, when I am in desperate need of something I can't get it. It seems the everyone with authority to prescribe is busy or at lunch ...... from 10 am til 1pm! All I need is a quick benzodiazepine hit and it looks like I'll be getting it on the street with all the other junkies at this rate. Once I have my anxiety under control I will be back with proper thanks for your posts (and the messages from lurkers out there) but you are all right, take the meds get myself sorted and then make decisions.

Katxxx


----------



## JBox

Kat   
Really hope today is a better day and u get whatever u need soon xxxxxx


----------



## Mrs Rock

Really well done Kat   


Thanks for asking.  Line is properly clear and darker!  Not doing bloods.  Scan on 27 June.  Sitting tight and hoping very hard, least said the better I superstitiously feel.  I am so scared.  Pretty please let's all talk about something else?    I know I'm silly but have decided my coping strategy is to pretend nothing is happening until I've had the scan


----------



## Nordickat

Fine by me MrsRock - I just needed to know and I'll be secretly hoping too now   I would talk about the weather instead but its miserable here today - hot and sticky.

JBox -   

I can tell you about the bees though if you like. They are about to swarm and DH is having kittens about it lol. He is now doing an emergency dash to the bee shop so get the stuff we need to stop them all flying away. This bee keeing is not all that easy as it turns out.


----------



## kitten77

kat - my BIL has his bee exam in a few weeks....i can remember you saying you had one...what do you need to do for that?

Mrs R - a sneeky 'whoohoo' from me - now i will shut up!!!


----------



## Mrs Rock

Thanks    I do know you all care and hope for the best.  As we all do for JBox too   .  

Now    


Bees, you say?  We have some in our chimney every spring, you can hear them buzzing really loudly and every now and then a few find their way down into the lounge and keep throwing themselves against the French windows until I let them out.  They've gone now though.  What do you need for when they swarm?  Gosh even that word 'swarm' makes my skin prickle a bit, you are a brave woman!


Kitten are you better honey?


----------



## kitten77

yer im not a bee-y kinda person either, rather bees thans wasps tho! 

still not better but at work and it is manic here, proper busy so was planning on taking it easy but that hasnt happened!!!!


----------



## vw22

Mrs Rock, I am saying nothing about anything. And VERY HAPPY there is nothing to talk about. vx


----------



## Mrs Rock

vw    You girls are making me smile


Kitten what do you do?  I'm a bit worried about you being so busy at work though I'm sure you're taking care of yourself (are you?!)


----------



## pinkpixie

Mrs rock i will add to the saying nothing about anything


----------



## Nordickat

I think our problem with swarming might be due to lack of bee exam   . One hive has gone bonkers and run out of room so DH had to go and buy a new empty hive to move some of them into it so they all think they have swarmed without actually going anyway ...... seems a long shot to me   . The other hive is rubbish though and DH is aiming for 1 jar of honey this year now instead of the original 50. I can buy honey for 5 quid a jar or alternatively we can make it ourselves for about 1000 quid a jar   . There is no way DH can ever complain again that my puppy costs too much. They aren´t actually as bad as you imagine and they just seem to ignore rather than attack us. I can talk for hours about bees (or even to the bees   ) so I´ll stop there.

Kitten - take it easy. Remember you are more important than your job.

Well, I sourced my drugs. I managed to get an appt with the covering Dr ....... she was about 12 years old I´m sure. Its a good job I already knew what I wanted or who knows what I´d be taking. Thankfully as she was so young she was too nervous to do the whole councelling thing and just rang her mentor to check I was getting the right stuff although I think she has the dose far too low. Anyway, first pill popped and now I´m just on here waiting for the respite and tiredness to kick in.


Before I go though - Han where are you? Are you ok? I detected sad lonely ´don´t like france´undertones in your last post    Anyway, I hope you are just busy doing nice things and I misinterpreted your post   

Night all, 
 Katxxx


----------



## Mrs Rock

Yes good point, Han, are you OK?  Have had head so far up own jaxy I didn't pick up on your post when I meant to.  I spent a year living in Paris for my degree and I know exactly what you mean about the shouty superiority in interaction between people, esp in places which should be part of the 'service' industry.  Service, my  , as Jim from "The Royle Family" would say.  I always felt that to buy a stamp or something you had to feel almost as though you were on the verge of an argument with the cashier      and trying to sort out anything at the bank - oh my, just forget it, or come back later with an armoured tank maybe   .

I taught English at Lycee Stephane Mallarme in the 17th, it was a complete hole, although the kids were ok.  I was meant to be teaching just English conversation but one of the baccalaureat classes' teachers left suddenly and they weren't able to replace her, so I ended up doing English lit set texts with the 6th form with no teacher training whatsoever.  But otherwise the poor things just wouldn't have had teacher and no one seemed to care!!  I was very homesick and also very poor.  I got a weekend job at EuroDisney to supplement my salary and that was quite fun, although getting the RER back at night was a bit scary.  I was a cocktail waitress in the Hotel Santa Fe, complete with Mexican 'peasant girl' costume which was a sight for sore eys I can tell you   .  Whereabouts do you live?  I had a flatshare with an English bloke in the 16th at first, but decided I wasn't speaking enough French and also all the snobby fur coated old ladies with their helmet hair gave me the creeps so I moved to a foyer de jeunes travilleurs in the 14th at Pernety - much much better.  

Anyhoo just wanted you to know you're not alone if you're feeling homesick - definitely been there.  Can you get back for a visit any time soon?


----------



## kitten77

hi all

yes, ditto Han you ok?  i did feel that your last post was very 'sad' in tones.  how you getting on.  i take my hat off to anyone who has the guts to go and live anywhere new (ive been in the same town all my life).  

Mrs rock - blimey your france time sounds terrible if you ask me, doest sound good at all. but the experience must have been amazing.

kat - glad you got your tabs from the 12 year old, no offence to ANYONE but i notice how young doctors and police officers are and dont they say you know your getting old once you notice how young people are!!!!  arrghh.....i will always be 19!!!!!!! 

vw -pixie - hello!!!!

hello everyone (including the lurkers....i know your there....come join us?)

afm - im a health and safety officer (no jokes please  ) - and been very stressful back at work as my partner in crime has gone to our other offices in london while here in 3 different offices here we have major building work going on and contractors who dont know their **** from elbow - so its been long hours, very stressful. - but i am going out for a glass of wine later, (hope it dont make my tummy hurt worse....).  need this week to be over as a girl brought her new born into office this week....right by my desk....so i prob look like the mean, bitter girl who dont wanna coo over baby or some hard nose *****.  THEN today someone who is due in 4 days left work so had the baby shower thing....again hard nose ***** me....only time i was glad we had the building work on as i said i was too busy!!!! ho hum....nearly wine o'clock.....


----------



## wobs

Hi ladies 

Kat - the other ladies said it all really....everyone is so wise on here. take care   

Mrs Rock - as they say, not saying anything but   

VW, Pixie, Kitten (hope you are feeling better soon), Winegum, Jbox, JBT, anyone I have forgotten....

AFM work is rubbish...but role on the weekend

take care all
Wobs


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## jamaicababytrying

hi ladies

just wanted to see how everyone was getting on... kitten hope u r feeling well and had some good wine; mrs rock shhhh   kat hope u had a good day; vw, winegum, pinkpixie, wobs howdy! 

Han whey yuh deh? we miss u... 

Me I am happy it isn't raining and we may actually meet friends for drinks later. although i feel like i could sleep... so after all my planning to travel in July my boss has had to change her travel plans which should have been a week before mine and guess what she may now go the week i wanted to go... we both can't be away at the same time   relly wanted to go at that time cause it's my sister's birthday! anyway we'll see what happens. anything later and it may clash with another supervisor's vacation and we can't be off at the same time... been afraid to call my doc because i know he is going to ask me about fet and i don't want to say it a loud that i am putting it off   keep you posted though, maybe i would really feel better with the world if i just got a better job   one i actually liked and a back to full time so more money and i wouldn't worry so much... so that is my next hurdle put it off long enough! there is really more to this whole job thing but for now we'll just say i am in a rut! have a lovely night well day by the time you all get this...


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## pinkpixie

Morning Everyone


Kitten i know what you mean when people bring their babies in but it doesnt matter what others think you just have to do what you can to get through.  I remember on one of my FET i had just started to bleed in work when my ex boss turned up with her newborn.  I am in Health and safety as well i am an h&s auditor for a utility company.  Hope the wine helped!!!


Wobs its nearly the weekend   


Mrs Rock i cant imagine travelling and living in a strange country i would be useless


JBT why are things never simple hope you get your hols sorted??


Kat glad you managed to get hold of the drugs


Hi to han vw winegum and jbox hope everyone is ok


AFM we go to tenerife tomorrow    cant wait as feeling quite rubbish the last few days really fed up about the whole thing nad feeling like there is no point with it all.  Hopefully hol will let me and DH regroup and just spend some time together.
AM working this morning then i finish for 2wks have to pack and am going watching my nephew in his sports day 


hannah
xx


----------



## Nordickat

Wobs - you´ve only been back a week, its too soon to be fed up of work    I hope you haev a lovely weekend and next week is better.

JBT -    seeing your sister after her birthday just means she gets 2 birthdays. And I´ve found your rain and i plan on sending it back your way asap   

Hannah - have a wonderful holiday and I hope the sun and vino does you the world of good. Living in a strange country certainly has its ups and downs, but then so does living in your home country. You wouldn´t be useless though I´m sure of it. You just need a bit of patience as everything takes a little longer to achieve thats all. Oh, and being fluent in another language means you are less likely to go senile too   

MrsRock/Han - one of my friends is french and he is a special character. We always put his arrogance, paranoia, aggression down to being french. My sister lived in Paris for a year too, I remember there were lots of prostitutes outside and my boyfriend wasn´t allowed into the appartment block when we visited. But all that wonderful food and wine ...... I can only dream of such things. Dried cod is our specialty   

Kitten - I hope your survived the day OK yesterday, only a few more hours til the weekend. The young Dr was a bit unnerving. Its never happened to me before and I was a bit spooked by it. How can she know more than me about anything when she is so young    I guess this is just the start hey as we get older and greyer   

I´ve had to take today off sick as the emergency medication is just awful and I really am mush today. I can´t even read my book and this message has taken me forever to type and its back to tv watching now ...... I hate it and preferred the permenant state of panic I think although I do know how dangerous that is. I´ve had the worst couple of days trying to keep control of my head and then get home and read on the medication label that I can´t drive anywhere or have a drink   ....... how is a girl supposed to get through life without wine   . I haven´t taken any more tablets today though which is naughty but its horrid feelng like somebody has removed your brain. 


 to you all, Katxxx


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## Han72

vw22 said:


> Mrs Rock, I am saying nothing about anything. And VERY HAPPY there is nothing to talk about. vx





pinkpixie said:


> Mrs rock i will add to the saying nothing about anything


Yeah! Whut they said! Or should that be "didn't say"   It seems we've lived very similar lives missus, I worked at Eurodismal too although I was a "waitress" in a restaurant in Adventure land called "Aux Epices Enchantees" Naturally we called it Ze Pits for short  Were you there when the park first opened? Before the RER ran all the way out to the park? So many people got mugged in Paris when the park first opened cos we were all staying in crappy hotels around Chatelet-les-Halles and travelling at all hours of the day and night  And then they built these new flats at a development near the park called la Boiserie (I found out recently that the local boys renamed it la Baiserie... I'll say no more about the goings on there!)



Mrs Rock said:


> I know exactly what you mean about the shouty superiority in interaction between people, esp in places which should be part of the 'service' industry. Service, my  , as Jim from "The Royle Family" would say. I always felt that to buy a stamp or something you had to feel almost as though you were on the verge of an argument with the cashier  and trying to sort out anything at the bank - oh my, just forget it, or come back later with an armoured tank maybe  .


Oh. My. God. You have just totally summed up one of the major reasons why I hate it here so much! You are the first person who really seems to get it! Everyone else goes "Oooh but you're so lucky to live there, how could you not like it?!" And then I feel like a [email protected] for being so ungrateful at my "luck"  As for the snobby coffin-dodgers in the 16th  I suppose the reason why they never clean up after their dogs is cos they don't see the crap on the ground cos their noses are stuck in the air! I live outside Paris actually in an area that's pretty but a bit too far out of town to allow me to find other ex-pats to mix with. It seems to be inhabited by super-fertile women in fact. The best bit about where I live is looking out of the bedroom window to the creche across the road. Or the kitchen window to the junior school opposite 

Katwoman - PMSL at dried cod! And bless your "special" friend. I used to think my DH was special but I now realise he's just suffering from Parisianitis, it comes with the birth certificate apparently  Eeh, you're right about the wine tho, pity I can't bloody drink any as like you, I'm on meds where booze is not recommended - in my case it's cos it just causes MASSIVE headaches. I'd forgotten about that until after the second glass last night, then I remembered in a hurry 

I could have sworn I replied to your meds dilemma post but I can't find it anywhere  Must have done my usual trick and forgotten to press post  Anyway what I meant to say in the famous disappearing post is I'm sure I read something in the Alan Beer "baby friendly" book about serotonin levels and egg quality where he was actually recommending anti-deeps... Of course now my book has gone missing so I can't confirm it but I'm pretty sure I read that in there! Glad you got your stuff although a bit confuzzled at the doc's not prescribing the correct dose  Sorry it's affecting you so badly  Although I wonder if the difficulty to concentrate is more a side effect of the depression/anxiety than the poxy pills    

By the way, your rain went the wrong way, I've got it now   

JBT - si mi dehyah! You know what? I think you should call the doc and tell him about your plans and whether going away really means you have to delay tx... Like I said before, loads of us have flown long distance right after tfr and it does no harm...  Mind you, what happens if your supervisor sticks with her plans? Does that mean you can't get away at all  It's a real pain to miss your sister's birthday but what if you can present her with a nephew or a niece as a result  Ok Shutting up now  

Oooh Pinkie - happy holibobs  ! Got room for a (not so) little one in your case? Pretty please   

Kitten -  for the newborn and the baby shower  Sometimes I really do think that everyone should just STOP HAVING BABIES until we've all had a chance to catch up.. whaddayamean "that's unreasonable" ?! I don't see why they can't just cross their bloody legs for a bit  Fertile freaks  

Love to everyone else and apologies for no more persos but my tiny brain has lost the plot after what I've written so far (which has taken me about 3 hours to type Kat  ) Re: young looking coppers and medical personnel, I have to say the French CRS look pretty damn hot in their tight trews. And I can only thank Gawd for being black cos the last thing I need is to start blushing when being tended to by some fit looking male nurse following yet another gynie intervention    

Re being unhappy. Yes I am. And I don't know what to do about it. But thank you guys for noticing and caring enough to ask... I think I need to sort out some English language counselling or something. But no amount of counselling or medication is going to make me like the way people treat eachother here or miss my family and friends any less. I've got to the point where I want to go home soooo badly... but I'm aware DH doesn't want to go back to Blighty and we won't be any happier cos then he'll be miserable. And all these failures have bashed my self-confidence massively so I worry that I won't be able to get a decent job. Not that I've been able to get one here but at least now I can blame the French for being too stupid and arrogant to want to employ me, I'd have no such excuse back home 

Sorry it's all mememememememe 

Love to all!

xxx


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## Nordickat

Oh Han    I hoped I was wrong and that you were doing OK. I have to go now but I´m thinking of you and hoping there is some way you and DH can sort this out. There must be english speaking counsellors somewhere and I think you need to go and find one.


How about both moving to another country ...... Norway for example. We don´t just have dried cod, for Christmas we have dried lamb  


Lots of love to you, 
Katxxx


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## wobs

Kat - that was what I was going to suggest to Han - going somewhere totally different?   

Realised i was so tired i can't even spell in my last post...oh well I'm only a teacher   

Weekend - made it. Hoping to only do 4-5 hours tomorrow and then relax for the rest of the weekend.

Going to eat some tea now and collapse
have a good weekend all
more personals later
Wobs


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## jamaicababytrying

Hi ladies

Keep the rain over there kat! so how are you today? 

Han honey sorry to hear how unhappy u r, sometimes i wish i cud leave this little island! Although this is my home born and bred my immediate family and some very close friends have all migrated! So u and I are kinda in the same boat, my family and friends are the dearest thing to me... this is one of the reason this whole IF issue has been so difficult because I don't have that kinda close support, my husbands family isn't much of a support system when i was in hospital this last time my MIL came to see me once! yes once in the whole week i was there knowing full well my mother, sister nor brother even live in here! my mom came the day before i was released... 

The weekend is here and it's from pouring rain to heat heat heat... geez it hot! went out last night had a few drinks and know that pretty soon I will be off the alcohol train again.. 

had lunch with a friend today she want to hang more but she had to pick up her son at school so she wanted me to go with her i made up an excuse and said no... but she is great and she fully well understands how i feel maybe not about her kids but certainly my insecurities and boy are there many!

enough of me... lemme focus on you lovely ladies Kat and Han your posts always put a smile on my face... hope my holiday gets sorted out too thx pinkpixie...

Have a lovely weekend chicks


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## JBox

OH HAN
I know how u feel too. I came to live here 15 yrs ago coz I wanted the exciting challenging new adventurous life but 15 yrs on and I realise that I will always will be the immigrant that no matter how well I speak the language or integrate into lifestyle I didn't grow up here go to school here do the army here go to uni here and all my and husbands family (parents sisters brothers cousins etc) live in the uk and that didn't bother me when I was 24 but today it really does. The people here are brash rude hard selfish and egotistic and the simple things like lining up for a bus or letting someone go in traffic or saying a simple thank you is a novelty. There are good things of course and its not all bad but at the moment I am finding them hard to remember. Even the 32 degrees outside isn't a good thing anymore!
I have decided that moving away from ur "home" ie ur growing up home is a great experience and gives you opprtunities that staying in one place doesn't, but it also is a real head fk coz once u move away its difficult to ever really settle and finnd things that u really love.
Me and dh constantly talk about leaving and going back to uk but we r stuck here til his daughter finishes school-another 2 yrs at least. Not ideal but at least made our decision for us. 
I hope u can find some happiness. My escape is my pottery class every week - small group of women where I can just say and be what I want without feeling judged.
X


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## waikiki

Hi ladies,

Sorry that I've been AWOL - there's been a lot going on lately!  I think it's high time for a few personals...

Han - I'm sorry that you're so down hun, I too know what it's like to feel that homesickness as I have lived in Japan and the US in the past.  As wonderful as it was to live there, there were so many times where I was on the verge of driving myself to the airport to get on the next UK-bound plane. I think that what JBox says is right, however long you live somewhere, and however hard you try to integrate, it's difficult to ever feel 100% like a local and it's when I was having hard times that I missed home the most, and so it's not surprising that you are feeling the way you do.  I started my IF journey when I was living in the States and the day the doctor told me I had high FSH all I wanted to do was come home - even though with hindsight if I'd stayed in the US I would have been living round the corner from some of the best clinics in the world, including Dr Beer's, I just needed to be home.
And as for the French, my two best friends both ended up living in France - one of them moans continually about the French and the other sadly seems to have taken on many of the unpleasant traits that you mentioned!  As she now only emails me to tell me a) how glamourous her Parisian life is, b) to tell me that she's pregnant again or c) just to check and see if I'm pregnant yet (yes the emails and calls are really that blunt)....needless to say she is now an ex-friend, although I haven't yet had the balls to tell her to stop contacting me!
I think that the English language counselling is a good idea - I have had 4 sessions with my counsellor and I am finding it really helpful.  More than anything, she has validated that what I have been through is a MAJOR event and I am entitled to feel all of the anger and grief that I do.  We are going to start working on letting some of it go and moving forwards, but just knowing that I am not being a drama queen about all of this has actually made me feel stronger.

JBox and Mrs Rock - I won't be saying anything about anything, but I'll just sneak in a little one of these... 

JBT - It's frustrating to put tx on hold isn't it, I was matched with a donor this week, but have had to turn them down as I have just started a 6 week anti biotic course for hidden C and strep B.  We will be ready to have tx by the end of August, but then we are moving house!  So I've had to tell them to postpone until September - I know it will come around quickly, but I'm just itching to get going now!

Kat - Do they have any non-dried meat and fish in Norway?!  Don't tell me, at Easter it's dried bunny...
Hope you're better today with the emergency medication. When will you be able to get the proper medication that you need?  I sympathise with the brain mush part - I used to be on anti-epileptics which DH called my bimbo pills, because I could barely string a sentence together when I was on them!

Pinkpixie - have a lovely holiday hun  

Kitten - glad to hear that you're on the mend now hun, but as the other ladies have said, just take it easy.   

Wobs, winegum, vw  

One quick question for you all - I think somebody mentioned maybe doing a tandem cycle a few weeks ago.  Does that mean doing a cycle with OE and DE?  If so, I'm considering that too if this next DE cycle doesn't work.  Can anyone remind me which clinics offer this?

Thanks and   to you all.

waikiki


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## jamaicababytrying

Hey Waikiki happy to see you back on... yes it is a terrible thing to wait!



Everyone so quiet this weekend, i hope that means u ladies had a good weekend!


----------



## wobs

hey ladies
love reading your posts   no time to reply
Hi Waikiki   
JBT - had a day off and didn't do any school work on Sat which was great; kind of ruined it though by working most of the day yesterday.  ho hum.....

have a good week all
Wobs


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## Mrs Rock

Hi ladies
Didn't do much this weekend, rainy weather so just relaxing. Got lots of stuff sorted out for my bf's hen next Saturday. We are having a posh afternoon tea at a hotel and I have made up a "Mr and Mrs" quiz for her to do. For every 2 answers to gets right about her other half she gets a silly little prize. So I was making all the question cards with a photo of her and her fiance on them, got party bags for the prizes and have made a few prizes and ordered a few online. Making them really taxed me, I am so not creative! I really hope she likes it all.

Also a tiny weeny green tomato has appeared on my tomato plant, I am so proud! Never grown anything like this before. It'll probably never turn red as the sun seems to have gone into hiding but I'm still chuffed 

Han yes I so do get it about Parisians  . Everyone used to say that to me too, "Paris! How wonderful! You're so lucky!" Well actually they know naff all abut what it's like to be a foreigner living there. I did try to make the most of my time there and I have some quite romantic memories of the city itself, but it was a lot more character-building than enjoyable.... As I was so poor I used to walk everywhere I could to save the metro fares, so I got to know different parts of the city really well. I was also a bit obsessed with Sartre and De Beauvoir at that period (isn't everyone?  ) and like a star struck teenager I used to make pilgrimages to all the bars and cafes mentioned in her novels. Also as I was a teacher I had a card which gave me free entry to all state owned galleries and museums so I went to somehing every week. If only I were so cultured now! These days the most regular thing I read is 'Look' magazine  But I actually blame IVF for that. I find the only way to get through the mental torment is to numb the brain with chick lit, online clothes shopping and pictures of red carpet dresses in magazines. Shallow? Me?  . EuroDismal  haven't heard that in years! It was all up and running when I was there, I don't think I'd have been brave enough to spend time at Chatelet as it used to scare me. I was there last year and it seemed to be quite a lot nicer than it used to be though. I never went to La Baiserie  but I can just imagine! I hold my hands up to have a few 'liaisons' whilst I worked there though - isn't that actually _why_ people worked there? 
Anyway def think it sounds like a good idea to get some English counselling. Also some English contact generally. Can you find something like a book group? A church group? A film club maybe?

Kitten I am pleased to hear you are a health and safety officer, as this means that you will be paying due attention to your own health and safety. Doesn't it?!

As for bringing babies into work WHY OH WHY do these utter saddos do it? Even before we started TTC I have always thought it is inappropriate. About 3 weeks ago someone I used to work with brought their newborn in and I heard it crying in the office which adjoins ours. I muttered something about it being so not the place for babies and fled so I didn't have to see it. I could practically hear my colleagues thinking "Bitter childless woman" as I left....

Pink Pixie hope you have a great holiday.

Kat I hope you are feeling better on the meds 

Hello to everybody else


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## vw22

Hi all, Just had a friend for the weekend which was lovely. Also had news of three more friends now pregnant or just popping...not so lovely!


Hannah hope you are having a great weekend away from it all...
Kat have you got your brain back? I hope you are ok...
Han and Mrs Rock. I understand your french suffering! Most of my family live there. Its a challenge... Sorry its so tough for you both.
JBT, waikiki (sorry can't help with your question), wobs, kitten and all the other veterans, a big hi and will catch up properly soon.


Still thinking of the 'nothing' girls and can see that no news is good news.


vx


----------



## JBox

VW - LOVE YOUR PIC..... brilliant!

Just a quickie to say hi and see how everyone is doing....my dh is in the uk at the moment on a biz trip back next sunday when we go for our first scan. I feel apprehensive, nervous, sick, tense, worried, no excitement at all. never expected this! I thought i would be over the moon, but i just feel numb... isnt that awful? 

JBT - its june, usually the start of the very hot summer here, which start around 35+ temperartures and can go up to 40 degrees, but today its grey, windy with spots of rain - did you send your weather over this way i am not complaining, i find the summers unbearable here, but its very strange.... 

Kitten - hows your tummy now? did you make any decisions about immune treatment?

x


----------



## kitten77

hi everyone, VW i love your profile pic too....how adapt!!!

JBox - well im excited for you if that helps!!!!!  but understandable how you just feel numb, i have no idea how i will feel WHEN i get pregnant. 

VW - arggh, on the news of more friends falling! argh argh argh.

wobs, mrs rock, JBT,waliki - hello all.

afm - tummy still hurting but much much much better than it was, went to my GP again last friday and mentioned that i have never been tested for endo (would you believe it hey, but as they found first off that DH had poor swimmers they never once tested me for anything!!!) - so he is writing to my consultant to see about if i can have that done. least that is something, so will leave it couple of weeks and go back to see him. 

as for the immunes, yes i am going to have that done, but trying to find time to read Dr Beers book before i go, but not getting through it very quick. 

think will wait and see what the outcome of asking for the lap and dye will be tho. 

also - had one of those drunken conversations with DH on sat nite, he said we should just go for adoption, which then made me cry as even though i am not against adoption at all, i dont feel i have got to the end of my journey trying yet, and i am desperate to be pregnant and have a pregnancy, he said he understood....but i dont think he did.  now i dont know how to bring the subject up again.......


----------



## JBox

kitten, 

Do you produce a good no of eggs and do they fertilize and do you have embryos to transfer? if so, then no you are not at the end of your journey yet.... if you have the mental strength (and of course the financial funds) to keep going, then you must... but defo check everything before your next cycle, endo and anything else....

Kat, if you are reading, just to let you know we are missing you darling 
xxxx


----------



## kitten77

yes JBox have eggs (not great number), quality ok and embroys to transfer.....so no i dont feel at the end up.  gonna get it all checked out!!!


----------



## vw22

Kitten, like Jbox said, I don't think you should give up yet.
Out of interest are you using DH sperm or donor sperm for all your tries?
I can see in your signature that he has some abnormal but not sure if you have moved to DS?
vx


----------



## kitten77

we are using DH sperm, we have isci but it still makes embroys, we havent been told about using DS, thot if that was needed consultant would have mentioned it?  the problem we have now is that they dont implant......


----------



## kitten77

oooo why was that writing soooo tiny!!!


----------



## Mrs Rock

Kitten have you ever had a hysteroscopy?


----------



## jamaicababytrying

JBox looks like we swaped weather... it is scorching hot at least 35 could be more it has been like this since saturday right after the rains. Summers are crisp and hot...  

Hey all u ladies...


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## vw22

Hello kitten and your tiny writing!
I was just wondering if it was worth doing PGS (pre-implantation genetic screening). Tell me to bog off if you don't want any more 'suggestions'! 

Quite often embryos can 'look' ok under the microscope but genetically they might not be. PGS tests them and often in problematic cases (no implantation, recurrent miscarriages) finds that very few out of a selection of embryos look as though they would continue healthily. Its a tough one. But some people would rather know up front than put ones back that are not destined to continue.

Please understand I am not saying that you have an issue with sperm or embryos (and the immunes could be the issue and I know you are addressing that) but its just something else to consider or ask a specialist. I think they mainly encourage PGS after the results of a DNA fragmentation test. Is this something your husband has had? Its a very simple test on sperm and Dr G can arrange it. The test might put your mind at rest.

Just a few thoughts. vx


----------



## Nordickat

I´m stll here JBox, just got nothing to say. I´m keeping my beady eye on you all though to make sure you are all OK.
 and


----------



## waikiki

Hi kitten - I am having very similar problems to you at the moment, as I've had 7 IVFs with never any implantation.  The doctors did tell me the same thing that vw mentioned, that although I have have always had good looking embryos, it is possible that they are genetically abnormal.  I considered PGD but because I don't get many embryos, the doctors tried to talk me out of it.  It's a really tricky one though, I think if I'd been getting more embryos I'd have definitely gone for PGD before switching to DE.

As I have high FSH/lowish AMH the doctors have just labeled my eggs as being bad, so I switched to DE.  I didn't get pg with DE either though (although only had 1 go so far) but my donor did but m/ced at 9 weeks.  Now I can't help thinking that it's been down to implantation all along though.  It's so frustrating as implantation seems to be an area that they still know very little about.

My DH did have a DNA fragmentation test a few years ago which came back normal, but I'd recommend your DH has one if he hasn't already, just to cross one more thing off the list.

Big hugs hun, I know how difficult it is to keep trying and trying and feel like you're in the same place as where you started.


----------



## kitten77

hello all

VW - my consultant spoke about this the other week, is this were they take a cell out and test it?  if it is, then he said about it but said we wouldnt be able to have it done as the embroys need to get to blast for this to be done and cuz we have never got to blast as never have that many embroys then this cannot be done   

waikiki - we have had chromosomes done? is that the DNA thing?  it is hard isnt it, how we keep on trying keep on going through all this and still nothing.  

i spoke to DH last nite, well actually DH spoke to me, he said he had been thinking of ways to get pregnant (some were sooooooo funny, but quite rood and tmi, so i think i wont say!), but one was and he was being serious, that a few years ago, his dad said (and yes this did upset me and i actually posted this on the 'stupid things people say' thread) he said that DH brother should 'have a go on her'!!      - like im a peice of meat or something.....but DH said last nite that this is never going to happen but he was thinking that if he got donor sperm and mixed it with his sperm that it mite help his sperm get going (as he thinks that his sperm is too thick?), and then would never know whos worked and whos didnt (then i told him that logically if i did get pregnant from that then it would be more than liking it was donor sperm) - anyway....i then said, so your ok with donor sperm and he said 'totally....why wouldnt i be' - so now.......  more questions.....  seeing we have had failed implantation, do you think that donor IUI would be a way to go?


----------



## vw22

Hi Kitten, 


"Have a go on her"!!! So romantic?!!! 


DS is so like having an affair without all the fun isn't it!!!


Yes you would have to be hopeful of blasts I think, because the cell is taken out on day 3 (I think). But you have had 2 frosties before, so did you get to blasts that time or where they day 3?


Without being an expert and if everything was pointing to sperm issues I would have thought donor sperm and IUI would be a simple and cheap option. Remember IUI has quite a low success rate generally but its still a good option at your age.


If there are no worries over sperm and therefore embryo quality, then immunes would be the next logical step. And it would be a shame to move to DS if there is still a chance of both genetics by trying immune stuff.


But no blasts could indicate nothing is developing beyond day 3 whether inside you or not so there is an issue with quality. Immune treatments won't make any difference to that issue (I don't think) so this is the first thing to be sure of in my opinion before spending lots of time and energy on immune treatment.


I hope I am helping and not confusing you. vx


----------



## Mrs Rock

I was a bit    by the "have a go on her" phrasing too!  Men!  But I am glad you and DH had another talk about things Kitten.  As you were saying he might not really understand your desire to be pregnant and wanted to move to adoption, but sounds like he really is trying to understand and think of ways to make progress towards getting pregnant.  I was told by my consultant that the success rate for IUI is only about 12% but as vw says it is much cheaper than IVF.


I think you must've missed my question earlier, have you had a hysteroscopy?  As this is one way to check there's nothing physical in the womb cavity which might prevent implantation.  Sorry if you've been over this before earlier in the thread.    


Talking of phrasing, I must share what my Dad said the other night.  I live 200 miles away and don't go home much and I hardly ever speak to him on the phone but I rang up because DH is going to stay with my parents tonight whilst he's in the area on business.  Dad has clearly been thinking about things since my mmc in March and somehow has decided a tx cycle costs £4000 (yes I wish   ).  From whatb he said, he seemed to be planning to just hand DH £4000 when he sees him tonight to pay for a cycle!      Very lovely of him and unexpectedly generous, I told him thank you but to hang onto it for now as we are ok for money - was quite emotional about it in the circs.  But what made me laugh was, my Dad began this conversation by saying "You know this UHT....the making babies thing..."          That is exactly the sort of joke he would make but he actually wasn't joking, he was just confused!  I had to laugh, bless him. So from now on DH and I are calling tx 'UHT'.


----------



## kitten77

isnt UHT the glue!?!?!? hahahah, thats so funny, bless  them hey!!! - But how very generous of him!!!! 

mrs rock, is the Hysteroscopy where they pump water into you to have a look at the womb, or the one where they go in key hole surgery through the tummy button?  if its the water one, yes i have had that and apparently i have a 'perfect and very good looking womb' !!! 

we would really like to try AI at home! but i really wouldnt know where to get proper sperm from!!!! 

my DH joked last nite that we should go on holiday and i sleep with a ginger bloke!!!! the weird thing is i think we get so emotionaly invovled with trying to get pregnant and even tho that would never ever ever happen, its funny how it still comes up in conversation isn it. sad really.


----------



## Mrs Rock

The glue is UHU!  Ha ha this is getting even better    UHT is what they use to produce long life milk!!

I think the water thing is the hycosy test, to check your tubes are open.  Hysteroscopy is where they go in via your lady bits with a camera for a good look round.  As well as checking there's nothing amiss in there, they now think that doing it just before tx can improve the chances of BFP, as touching the endometrium with the camera seems to stimulate it and make it more receptive to implantion.  Didn't work for me when I had mine back in 2009, but both Guys and ARGC have told me they do believe it increases the chances of success.


----------



## kitten77

hahahahaha, this is getting better!!!! thot it was glue! 

oh yes that thing, i have had the camera thing done through my lady bits,  they had a brand new camera when i had mine done and he was well impressed with the quailty....so much so he called people into ahve a look!! oh dont mind me then!!!!!!!!!  

didnt know it imporved chances tho. ho hum....didnt work for me either then did it!


----------



## vw22

I don't know whats funnier, dads thinking its UHT (which is brilliant) or kitten thinking its UHU!!! 

vx


----------



## Mrs Rock

UHU could almost be the secret greeting call of the Veteran Barbies, as in: "Yooooo hooooo!  Anyone want to talk about UHT?"


----------



## kitten77

this is still making me giggle!!!


----------



## Nordickat

I knew you guys would cheer me up


----------



## waikiki

UHU eh Kitten? I think you may have stumbled across something....maybe it's the UHU we've needed all along to make the little embies stick!!


----------



## Nordickat

Catch up time.

Winegum – I don’t think adoption is an option anymore for us  because I don’t think I’ll ever be in a position to deal with rejection –  sounds feeble I know. We were approved and opted to pull out before my  breakdown was reported to them. Adoption is way more invasive that IVF and I  can’t imagine letting them get into my head again. Maybe one day though I’d be  brave enough to go abroad for donor embies. I hope you are getting your head  around all the new additions to your tx?

Vw – I love your new avatar. Thanks for the looking  backwards homework and once the meds have kicked in I’ll try it. And having no  fear is not something I can imagine either right now let alone decide what to  do with it, in time though maybe. How are things with you though? Is the donor  hunt going OK? How do you og about that, if its not a personal question?

Waikiki – No its not all dried food here. The Norwegians  know how to celebrate with the best of us and on Christmas Eve’s Eve, they go wild  and have rice pudding!! I guess thats what happens when 4 million fishermen and  farmers discover oil! DH and I both fancy more time in Japan as we love it  (although not on a permenant basis and Tokyo makes me head explode). Its  absolutely fascinating and I find it refreshing that we stand out so much that  there is no point in pretending to fit in if you get what I mean. My working  experience there is academia and its so elitist and sexist its not true. DH was  there as a world expert and I was there as his assistant (the manager and the  doer  ) and I was treated very much as his lacky. Then one day all the profs  were talking about PhDs and DH got his from a bog standard uni and I happened  to get mine from one of the top 3 in the world. You can’t imagine how rapidly I  was promoted to goddess while DH had to run round after me.  Oh and the parties  I was invited to with DH as my guest. I do like to remind him of his status occasionally   

Wobs – please don’t work too hard, you need you time too.

MrsRock – I agree about babies at work …… why would you want  to do that? Every month I seem to get an email that somebody has had a baby and  there is a picture attached, and only about once a year do I actually know who  the person it let alone care that they have expanded their family.

Kitten – I’m glad you and DH are able to talk things through  properly, and have a giggle too.  I’m not sure I can add much to all the other  thoughts you have had. We generally get poor fertilization with own sperm and  on the occasions we got good fertilization most embies stopped dividing at day  3. When we switched to donor sperm we got fab fertilization and still they all  stopped dividing at day 3 so at least we now know we have sperm and egg issues.  I’m not sure if that helps you  any  really?  When we swtiched we were offered donor IUI instead of IVF but I refused  it for what you might think is as odd reason. It generally is less successful  so you need more attempts to get your BFP but you can do them back to back so  do a lot of cycles in a row which is great, except I just couldn’t handle the  thought of being on the roller coaster 24/7. For all the waiting between tx is  awful, it still does us good I think to be able to regroup and live a little. I  think though that if I had been in a better state of mind at the time, I would  have said yes to IUI, although not now I know our eggs are duffers too. Still,  I don’t think that info helps you either does it?  

Han – I think a few of us understand the homesickess thing  and the need to be surrounded by real friends and family. I really do hope that  you find peace and a solution that suits both of you. The world is too big a  place to be stuck somewhere you don’t like.

JBT –   

JBox – thinking of you but also knowing you will sort things out in your head soon   

Hannah – hope you are enjoying the sun.

I’m still smiling at UHT and UHU ……. I’m thinking of giving  both a try.

AFM, well I’ve just been next door and cut down their cherry  tree which was blocking my view of the fjord. They refused to do it despite not  even living in the house so I’ve just done it. Encouraged by my DH and JBox on  the grounds that if it goes to court I can claim diminished responsibilty  There are advantages to being crazy afterall. All  that concentrating on replying has exhausted me so back out to the deck for me …….  I should make the most of my new view before they catch me.
 Katxxx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Cracking up over UHU/UHT people in my office must think I am crazy!

Not much happening on my front, still hot as bia&*@$^...

So I have a weekend on in-laws coming up and I am so not looking forward to it, most of them do not know of my infertility and treatments... so I know they are all going to be asking about the step child and when we will be having one etc... anyway enough of my belly aching sometimes it's just so hard to have to face those situations as much as i try to trivialize it and play cool it hurts so much... especially since i know my brother in law's wife never wanted children and they are not very simpathetic of my situation or i don't feel they are... none of them not even my mother in law has ever asked me how I am doing when it comes on to that. And would you believe she is a nurse by training but not practicing! I tell you sometimes I wonder...

So will keep you all posted on my weekend, will have no access to computers so i will be out of communication...

I'll definitly check in before i go though


----------



## Han72

waikiki said:


> UHU eh Kitten? I think you may have stumbled across something....maybe it's the UHU we've needed all along to make the little embies stick!!





Mrs Rock said:


> UHU could almost be the secret greeting call of the Veteran Barbies, as in: "Yooooo hooooo! Anyone want to talk about UHT?"


    

Kitten - did you get a credit for your starring role     Bless your DH trying to make a joke out of the whole DS thing,  it must have been a bit of a blow for him to have to consider that 

As for the Katwoman chopping down the cherry tree     I like your style girl  Bloody well done!!! 

JBT - good luck with the outlaws  I had a HUGE falling out with MIL a few years ago but we're cool now  FIL is another matter altogether, such a boorish, bullying, chauvanistic git sometimes I just want to slap him! Imagine Gerard Depardieu, with less hair and a droopy tash, a bit less lardy but just as barrel chested, overbearing and inexplicably smug and arrogant. Thing is, every now and then, he does something that makes you think "aww bless him  " and I can't figure out which one is the real FIL.... Obviously now I'm trying to think of an example, all I can remember is the 'orrible things he's done  

Sorry no more persos, my brain is mush   Thanks so much to everyone for helping me pull my head out of my **** re the homesickness and general misery. I finally called a counsellor, an American lady and I'm going to see her on Friday. She didn't seem to be very impressed when she asked me why I picked her and I said "well your name came up first"    It was actually more cos I saw that she deals with foreign students who are in France and struggling with culture shock/homesickness issues... but she did come up first on the list and I just didn't have the mental capacity to get into a pros and cons thing with all the other possibilities so when I saw what she did, I just picked her 

Love to all!

xxx


----------



## Mrs Rock

Oh good for you Han.  I hope it's useful   .  Let us know what you think when you see her.


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Han i am happy you found someone even if she isn't the perfect one... let us know how it went... girl this outlaw (i am stealing that) thing really is a drab sometimes i just don't have the strength for them... so i will carry a good book already bought my Oprah magazine not sure i will enjoy the sun cause it hot hot hot this week high 90s and when you have to deal with fan only you know fan just blowing hot air! 

I spoke to my doctor today and I told him of my plan to wait, he thinks it;s a good idea... told him my fears about the thawing process and he has the same concerns! So i am going to look forward to Sept/Oct transfer...

I also called the career councellor and they are to call me back with an appointment date! So i was very proactive today, no more procrastination which i might add am very very good at  

So that's it for me, did some baking tonight for our trip and will finish up tomorrow cause silly me forgot to buy a necessary ingredient   

Hi to everyone will check in before we leave on Friday!


----------



## wobs

Hi ladies

Not much time to post (no change there).  Have had a read back & caught up.

Loving the UHU/UHT!!!      A nice early morning giggle

Kitten - just wanted to say I suspect there are a number of us on here with similiar issues.  You say it is an implanation issue but have you ever been told that  We had 3 cycles where we put back day 3 embryos.  Because we didn't know if it was implantation or the embryo stopping we decided that we would go to blast in the future.  This meant on 2 cycles we didn't get any to transfer as they stopped at day 3, but on the one we did we got a BFP - although it stopped early on. On all our cycles we have a relatively low fertilisation rate.  I think if someone could tell us whether it was the embryos or the implanation we'd know what to do next   ....Hoping the ARGC will have some answers for us - haven't had level 2/chicago immunes done and sort of hoping something comes up.  I'm glad you and DH have had a chat about things.  It's all so difficult this

Hi to everyone else.
Off to work now
Wobs


----------



## JBox

LOVING THE UHU / UHT... brilliant... this thread just gets better and better. 

Kat - so pleased you took dhs advice- hope you can sit out on your deck now and enjoy it without any obscuring trees!

Kitten - the implantation question is a huge one that no dr seems able to answer. The only who really addresses it is Dr Beer where he says that multiple failed cycles of ivf is due to implantation issues and may even be early miscarriages....
I have never gone to blast with any of my transfers and even on this last one (de) we put back on day 3. My dr beleives that the embies are better back in the womb where they natrually belong than in a dish in a lab... maybe theres something in that, i dont know....but the question of why the embies dont stick is an open ended one and i think many women on this site would love that answer.  I certainly would! is it down to the quality of the eggs? the sperm? the lining of the womb, whatthe million dollar question!!!!

Waikiki, just wanted to say, after 7 oeivfs i also moved on to DE and the first attempt didnt work... 2nd one so far so good ( v v v v v v early days), so dont lose hope... 

hi everyone else. 
x


----------



## vw22

Han, good for you. One big step even if she was first on the list!!!


By the way everyone, are you aware of Penny at Serum? In Athens. I am not sure if she has been discussed on this thread or not. So sorry if I am repeating but she offers a lot of hope for us 'been through the mill' girls.


I have just been 'chatting' to another ff and it reminded me of her. She does hyseroscopies that are supposedly like no one else. She also has wonderful reports about her and her approach. She did all the op and test etc and trip to Athens for less than UK prices and felt she had better treatment. And they came up with stuff no one else has.


Just thought I would mention her for anyone that might not know her...


vx


----------



## waikiki

VW - I have also heard great things about Penny and first read about endometrial scratching on the Serum site.  If my next DE cycle doesn't work I am torn between going to Serum or trying a mixed OE/DE cycle.

Han - Just wanted to pop on to say that I hope your first session with the counsellor goes well tomorrow.  I'm finding it helpful to have at least 1 hour a week when I can say everything that I truly think and feel without being judged for it, or told that I shouldn't feel that, or that it will all work out in the end etc, which as much as our friends and families try to help and to understand what we are going through, they all invariably say one of those things at some point or another.  I didn't think that it would be such a relief to have someone to just listen.

Kat - I loved my time in Japan too, especially Tokyo as I lived there in my early 20s...think it would make my head explode too if I lived there now though!  It was handy looking different from everyone else and being able to play the stupid gaijin card when it suited me, but at other times I just found it hard that I would never 100% fit in, even if I lived there for the rest of my life.  I interned at Sony for a while and was astounded by the racism and sexism there too.  But I also lived in Kyushu for a while and the people were so friendly that I could have stayed forever.  Presumably you know that they eat a lot of dried seaweed in Japan....does your dried food fetish know no bounds?!    

JBox - thanks for the morale boost, I know that it can sometimes happen for ladies after many, many failures...I'm just praying that I am one of them.

JBT - Have a wonderful trip, we'll miss you while you're gone but look forward to hearing about it when you get back.  

Hello to all you other lovely ladies.    

AFM, no news really other than the fact the anti-b's I've been taking for hidden C have been wreaking havoc with my digestive system all week.  Just hoping that my bowels settle down as I don't think I can take another 4 weeks of this!  

 waikiki


----------



## jamaicababytrying

HI ladies feeling so mad and sad all at the same time, these dugs really make u add a few pounds to your weight eh! You i do all i can to eat well no snacking, minimal sweets, not much rice.. my downfall however is the exercising but you know what i i know i have said this before but  i am starting tomorrow morning... i need to get back into doing something even if it is only a half hour a day....

So we are off tomorrow i will try to have a relaxing time, sunday is father's day here so i bought hubby a card which i was very reluctant to cause guess what him not mi fadda... but he is a father and i have to acknowledge that right?!

Sorry don't know about this Penny person, place or thing... as for the uterus scratching my doc actually mentioned it to me after our last failed cycle so he was considering doing it for the FET what do you ladies think about that? 

Anyway it's late and have stuff to do before heading out of town...

Take care have a great weekend.


----------



## Mrs Rock

Han how was the counselling appointment on Friday?

JBox, sending you    for scan tomorrow xxx


----------



## wobs

Hi ladies

hope all ok with everyone.

Ta; re: Penny mention VW.  yes had heard of her, but had forgotten   

I think we're at the go to the ARGC and see what they say stage.  If they can convince us, we'll have another go.  

Hope everyone is doing ok.  I'm having a school free day today (yippeee).  We're going out to enjoy the sunshine - well what there is off it - but hopefully the forecast is better than yesterday

take care everyone
Wobs


----------



## kitten77

morning everyone, just popped into say hi and hello and hugs to everyone. 

not much going on with me, washing machine is broke, so more money. getting a bit down with money as trying to save to go and get immunes done, but makes me down as we cant do 'normal' people things - DH is getting down about it to, plus he looses his job in march.  so bit down today im afraid. sorry.


----------



## JBox

oh kitten i am sorry to hear that.. come live here. you dont have to pay for treatments here - just the drugs and then we are talking around 30 pounds for a months supply! ( hence the ridiculous amount of treatments i have done!!) my washing machine is also on the way out, making very strange noises as if the drum has some animal stuck in there (gosh, i hope not!!!) and the thought of shopping and shelling out so much money on a new one so doesnt excite me. 
im not going to harp on here, but last night, we had our scan ( 7weeks) and we heard one little heartbeat. I have never been so emotional as i was in that moment. i dont know what it is thats getting me, the releif that at least at this stage everything is ok, the worry about my feelings towards this whole pregnancy, the future and what it holds .... so many things. But at least thank goodness everything for the moment is ok . 
Anyway, i am worried about Kat girls. she has disappeared. I know that she has been having quite a hard time of it recently and we have been pming each other a lot over the past few weeks but she hasn't responded to any of my messages since last week. Has anyone heard from her? 

Kat if you are reading, totally totally get it if you want some time out, just give us a sign that you are ok luv, coz we worry about you. 

Have a lovely day girlies, and looking forward to hearing from you all. 
xxxx


----------



## Han72

Hi all

Jbox - so so pleased for you honey, can put all the bells and whistles on here cos on the crackberry  but believe me, its all about the dancing bananas! Hang on lemme see if this works   !

Re Kat - I think she said they were going to take her phone away didn't she? Or did I dream that? In any case, Kat if you're reading we're thinking of you and sending a beeeeg beeeeg group  (not sure if that smiley will work either, we'll see!)

Kitten sweetie   so sorry to hear about DH's job and WHY Do the poxy appliances always conk out at the worst possible time - BUMMOCKS ^insert angry smiley here^ 

And I totally get the irritation of saving dosh for weird tx related testing and never getting to spend money on treats  If I was in blighty right now I'd console myself with a Marks and Spencers sticky bun! Is it weird to live in France, land of baguettes and posh patisseries,  but crave baked goods from the UK 

Sorry no more persos, I have quite literally lost the plot. My counsellor has assessed me as possibly being bi-polar : Which would explain the mood swings I suppose. So I need to see a psychiatrist now who will probably prescribe something (lamictrol? Summat like that anyway) that'll knacker up my eggs once and for all. Oh well at least that gets rid of the oe/de dilemma  

And she wants me to bring DH with me to the next session...

Kat, wherever you are, is there room for one more in there    Sorry if that was inappropriate but I have to laugh at the irony that there is finally an explanation for the way I feel and there is something that'll make me feel better but also means I have to give up on my own eggs and, I assume, adoption as well...

On the positive side I've just previewed this post and I'm impressed with the smileys, looks like I got most of them despite having to type them longhand 

Love to all!
Xxx


----------



## Mrs Rock

Kitten know how you feel.  I have started putting stuff on my credit card for the first time in years, I never usually use it but at the moment we just don't have enough money.  I have just started working an extra half day per week, which doesn't sound much but is actually surprisingly financially worthwhile, so hoping in a few months we'll have some breathing space.  My finances not helped by my friend's hen do on Saturday at which people ordered tons of extra champagne not thinking that some of us don't really want to be spending a fortune   .    Also the place we went for afternoon tea tried to add an extra £50 to our bill for service charge when I had it agreed in writing beforehand that the service charge was included in the price per head agreed.  Had to produce the emails to prove it to the manager, glad I thought to print them off and take them on the day.  No apology from manager for the embarrassment either grrrr.  Happily I kept all this away from the party so no one knew about the awkwardness.  And the hen has barely managed to say thank you and hasn't even mentioned the quiz and prizes I spent ages setting up for her   .

JBox am so happy to hear all well at your scan   .  Sorry haven't heard from Kat, as she is on new meds perhaps she isn't posting until she feels better on them.


----------



## Mrs Rock

Han, just read your post.  Sorry to hear you may be bipolar   but it is still only 'maybe' at this stage isn't it - will you arrange to see the psychiatrist?  And if you are, at least maybe on meds you'll feel better.  Nothing is ever easy, is it


----------



## vw22

JBox, thats wonderful news, it really is. So happy for you!
Kitten sorry to hear you are down, its an awful feeling when it feels like just one thing after another.
Han, thats probably been bit of a shock. But hopefully it helps to understand why you have been feeling like you have. Really hope it helps going forward to have some help...
Hi to everyone else! vx


----------



## wobs

hi ladies

Jbox - what fantastic news... Soooo pleased for you    hope you are able to relax a little and let it sink in.  wooohooooo...
please keep us posted...we want to share your news. congrats!

Mrs Rock - sounds as if you did a wonderful job of the hen do; don't take it personally I think some 'hens' are like that. It's possibly only when you organise one yourself you realise how much work it is.  She is probably just wrapped up in her wedding - I suspect i was at the time I got married   

Kitten     hope you are feeling brighter today. 

Han     What a shock for you.  Can a counsellor assess you as being bipoloar?  Don't you need a psychiatrist to do that?  And anyway aren't there shades of all these things?  Don't really know the right words but above all I hope you get the support you need & start feeling more you soon.  

Kat - hope you're doing ok 

vW - hi!

JBT _ hope you're having a good break

Waikiki - hi

Hi to anyone else I've missed

take care everyone 
WObs


----------



## Nordickat

JBox - so sorry to worry you. No need though as I'm made of tough stuff. My lucid moments are a bit sporaditc but I'll pm you tomorrow I hope. Huge congrats on that fluttering heart beat though 

Han - trust me, you don't want to be where I am! I'm with wobs on the fact I'm not sure your american counsellor can tell you you are likely bipolar, and after just one session. They do like their labels and they even put their dogs on antiDs!!!  At a bad moment you might think I was bipolar but I'm not, its just that my anxiety symptoms are very similar at times. My antiDs keep both my anxiety and depression under control when they are working properly and I hope it works out to be the same for you. There are lots of meds for being bipolar though and they all work on different aspects of it depending on your needs so I wouldn't stress too much about it until you've had the medical opinion. In the meantime, Mind.org.uk and NHS have really good info. Feel free to add your own punctuation to all that drivel if it doesn' make sense!

Waikiki - it was the huge variety of dried food we went to Japan for  All their sushi salmon comes from here and mentioning yo uare norwegian in a proper fishmarket sushi bar results in huge handfuls of extra scallops and other goodies 

Sorry again for being AWOL but I had no access to the internet. Choosing to stay home alone wasn't my cleverest moment and it got a bit messy and I finally broke into a million pieces but maybe its easier to start again than to try and repair damaged goods anyway?! At least the only way is up now.

Love to you all, 
Katxxx


----------



## waikiki

Hmmm, for some reason I hadn't seen any of the last few days' posts when I checked yesterday and this morning and then all of a sudden there they all were!   

Kat - big hugs hun, I'm glad that you came on to tell us that you're OK.  As I said before, as hard as it is to fall apart, sometimes that is what you need to do in order to put yourself back together stronger, if that makes sense.  
....And you can send some of those extra scallops my way, yummy.  

Jbox - congratulations!  I understand that you still need to tread carefully, but the signs so far are good.   

Mrs Rock - I arranged a hen weekend for one of my best friends last year and spent ages on costumes, games, music, food and didn't get a thank you.    I know that she loved every minute of it though, so I was pleased to do it for her, but all the same a little appreciation wouldn't have gone amiss.

Han - I agree with the others that it seems very quick for your counsellor to have jumped to the bi-polar conclusion and you need to wait and see what a qualified psychiatrist has to say.  Big hugs hun, and I hope that you get an answer soon, one way or the other.
BTW I used to fantasise about M&S sultana cookies when I lived in the US.

Kitten - The cost of all these tests really mounts up doesn't it, and then the bloomin' washing machine goes too.  I had a similar thing last summer when the fridge broke on the hottest day of the year!  We managed to get it fixed, only for the dishwasher to pack up the very next day.  

Hi Wobs, VW, Winegum, Billabong, Pixie and JBT!


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Hi ladies back from our long weekend.. it wasn't too bad had a mini breakdown after talking to my cousin in law who is visiting from Canada... she teaches yoga and i was asking her what she thought about yoga's contribution to fertility and she started to explain her she a few miscarriages and she turned to yoga etc... so i started to share our story as she was not aware of what we have been going through... that led to a whole lot of emotions and i just couldn't be strong enough and just broke down   i felt like such an idiot  weak and hating my body all over again   then i had a mini breakdown on our drive back home with hubby yesterday...he is so good to me he just lets me vent and go crazy bless his soul!

Then to top it all off had an allergic reaction to we don't know what, lips swollen, chin swollen and had no medication   it just reminded me of the ordeal we went through while going through our last cycle... i still think the drug is still in my system and flairs up when triggered... so thought i got rid of it the next day only for me to have another flare up yesterday this time itching on my arm and a slight swelling to my lip...    

Enough of my whinning. Kat i am happy you checked in we do worry about our little family here... Han i am not sure a councellor can make that call, if she thinks you need to see a psychiatrist then maybe you should get a professional opinion... thinking of all you other lovely ladies... Kitten so sorry honey about your news and I do know about not having enough to just do normal things or even buying a little something cute... JBox quietly i am jumping up and down for you hon i can imagine what your apprehensions are but soon you will start to relax    

waikiki, vw, pixie, billabong, wwinegum, mrs rock    

Oh and guess what ladies I finally started to exercise today    hopefully i will keep it up


----------



## vw22

Hi everyone. They have been fiesta-ering outside my front door for two weeks and its over 30 degrees...very noisey and no sleep is making me very dull!!! So I have nothing remotely interesting, good or bad to say, but I am here and still reading vx


----------



## Mrs Rock

Remind me where you are in the world vw?  This is a very glamourous international thread!  I am i boring south east London    Athough actually I do like it where I live.


----------



## kitten77

hi everyone

Mrs rock - i am in ungalmourous Wiltshire in england,- but agree loving the fact we have a very international thread!!!! its funny when i say...."oh i was talking to my friend in Jamica" - people think im well travelled and know people all over the world!

JBT - its ok to break down hun!!!! we have all done it and to be honest its totally normal and if you didnt i would think there is something wrong! its tough and when you talk to someone and try to explain what you have gone through it just brings it home and very quickly which is what gets me. but your not a idiot or weak!! my god hun, what we have gone trhough i would never say not one of us is weak in anyway!!! think we are the strongest people around! 

Kat - glad you came on to say hello. and if you do feel you have hit bottom.....well the only way is up now babe! (always always here for you)

JBox - fantastic news on the scan, sooooo happy for you!

han - ditto what others have said, surely a counceller cant diagnose you with bi-polor just like that from one visit!?

hi to Wobs, VW, Winegum, Billabong, Pixie and everyone else!!!!!!

AFM - well still a little down, washing machine still broke, still dont know what direction to go in concerning tx, but longer put it off the older i am getting, money situation is dire.  but! i have friday off to go shopping with my best friend who is 40 today and he wants to go and have a few drinks and shop and my other best friend is over from oz and going for a very girlie day on sat for more drinks, more cocktails and more wine!!!! cant wait.  

also can i ask?  since coming off ALL drugs, vitimines, suppliments etc after my last tx in march, i have had the badest tummy in the world, keep going back to the docs who dont know what it is, still trying to work it out, im glad that he is trying as i thot he would just fob me off with the IBS, as i used to suffer with this in the past and i know it is really painful but this isnt like this, so know its not IBS (i thot it was which is why i took so long to go to the doctors - as you know with the blood in poo etc!) - but now im worrying if it is all the drugs and that i have been putting into my body all these years with the tx......? do you think it could be? has anyone else had any trouble?


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## vw22

Well I lived in souff east London for years so love and know it well! Now in spain...


Kitten, I took the last of the prednisolone last week so am finally, after 3 years of this and that pretty much drug free. To be honest I feel the opposite of you, for once no twinges or pains or anything. But I have also been doing as much excercise as I can (to get rid of the fat that built up from injections) and watching what I eat. The temptation when not in treatments is to just go nuts and eat and drink everything cos I don't care anymore, so I have to really be careful I don't do that. As I have no treatments I also went to the dentist and got all my amalgum fillings removed (they are old and probably toxic!) and had a mammogram and smear test. I have been so worried pumping myself with all these hormones that I may have created a monster of stuff inside. I have basically taken this time off as a chance to get everything done I wanted to but was too scared to in case I upset the treatments.


Maybe your tummy is just calming down slowly after all the meds. It makes sense really. Or do you think you could be stressed about not doing a treatment at the moment and you are holding all the tension in your tummy. Sorry if that sounds stupid? Could some relaxing yoga help or a little detox, just to help you feel you are doing something positive? vx


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## kitten77

vw, great idea about doing all the things that you need to do and getting them all done.  well done on the fitness too, i like running but cant do it sometimes cuz of the tummy. 

im getting zumba for the wii on friday so that will be good!!!!

and totally get what your saying about the bad tummy through stress!!! i am a tummy stress sufferer!!!!  i used to do yoga but cant really afford the classes now, but more relaxing is good.  ive come completely off the coke as well and drinking more water and eating more fruit and veg! (but still eating the choc!!! oops!). 

im on some strong pain killers that doc gave me this morning and im proper out of it, proper spaced out, its good in a way, but not in another as feel all gittery!!! least pain gone at last.


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## vw22

I reread my post and it made me sound like Cat Deeley, I sounded way to good to be true and believe me I AM NOT!!! 


I went to two zumba classes and decided I couldn't afford it either! So I now have a work out for 30 minutes with youtube at home...!! Much cheaper and no one can see me get confused on the dance floor. Wii will be brilliant...and check out the yoga on you tube too...its great.


By the way have you had any anti-biotics in any of your treatments? They can play havock with the stomach...



When you said coke I thought you meant err...coke?! I immediately thought thats probably not good at all!!! but think you mean the fizzy stuff? 


Hope the painkillers are working. vx


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## Nordickat

I also thought hard core coke ...........  actually maybe that would help us all out.
I don´t know anything about IBS but maybe some probiotic tablets would help sort your tummy out kitten if its the after effects of so many tablets.


JBT -    I´m quite sure your cousin in law thought it was completely normal to be upset. She has been in a similar place remember and I doubt she found it easy.


Hope you are OK V´my body is a temple´W   


I´m home now and very happy to be here except my DH has become a media whore today and his face is everywhere except where it should be, home with me.


 Katxxx


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## jamaicababytrying

i thought the same thing re coke! 

Kitten please let me know how you like the zumba for wii... I use the wii for my exercise routine as well, I have a personal trainer that i use it's called EA Sports it's great but I am bored with it   and thought about getting the zumba cause i have heard so much about zumba  

Kat yes she did understand and was very helpful and comforting... yes she has been thru some emotional experiences and we both talked and tried to help each other...


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## vw22

JBT 'Personal trainer is wii' Thats so funny, I love it... I am going to start saying I have a personal trainer too (youtube)!
Kat, yes my body is my temple, sadly its a multi-story carpark type rather than a neat little buddhist type temple! DH in the media... oooh thats very cool, is he very famous?!!!
vx


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## Nordickat

vw - buddhism is overrated anyway! DH is becoming famous but not for anything useful, or for anything that will make him rich enough for me to become a lady that lunches.


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## waikiki

So we were all secretly wondering how we could tactfully break it to kitten that her hardcore drug habit may be the cause of her poorly tummy, let alone affecting the outcome of her tx!   

vw - what's the secret to keeping your body as a temple?  I have put on so much weight with tx and more recently eating cr*p because I just feel down all the time.  Have stocked up on healthy stuff to start a detox, but don't think realistically that I'll be able to hold out for long without cake  

If any of you ladies like dancing, I can recommend Just Dance for wii.  I have the other exercise-y ones but find I get bored of them quite quickly.  Although Just Dance isn't designed as a workout, I find that after a few numbers I've worked up quite a sweat.  I'm not bad at it now, check out my moves...


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## pinkpixie

my god you ladies can talk    have finally manged to read through everything i have missed.  Am not really thinking straight as landed at 230 this morning and havent been to bed yet so brain is working less than normal.
will do proper personal tomorrow but just wanted to say


Jbox congrats thats wonderful 


han hope you are doing ok  


Kat glad you are back home


Kitten dont know if it is of any relevance but i seem to be sensitive to weat and will randomly have a bad stomach so dont know if its worth looking at that??  i found dr beers book hard going but found it easier once i had had my immunes done and knew what i was looking for.


After eating and drinking rubbish for 10days and psyching myself up for detox and trying to pluck the courage to check my emails to see if our hospital transfer has been approved.  Think i might stay in ignorance for a few more days   .  If anyone has any tips for motivating for healthy eating and exrercise please send them my way.


Hi to everyone else
xx
h


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## jamaicababytrying

Pinkpixie I wish I had the best motivational speech ever but... i finally just start to exercise again and it is a slow start but  have started... i think you should just ease yourself into it... i have a wii and i started back with wii fit yoga and the step routine which made me get into the whole exercise routine so  i added a short upper body routine... tonight i did the same so move slow but sure... as for the eating healthy now i have been struggling with that too... what i do though is try not to eat after 6:30P.M. but with my new exercise routine i don't know how possible that is cause i work out in the evening so by the time i get home from work, exercise then make dinner it's 8... i guess i could solve that by working out in the morning but that mean waking up early and i am not a morning person... but i am going to try and push myself or at least ry it a couple mornings... i am willing to help push you along may help me stay on course   Anyway hope you had a good trip where did u go?


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## JBox

OMG, you girls are all putting me to shame.... the most exercise i have done in the past 6 months is walk my dog - and now that has fizzled to a five minute sloppy stroll round the block.... My exercise routine has gone to pot. i cant even be bothered to walk from the tv room to the fridge to get the chocolate biscuits out, have to get dh to do it for me!!!Have become lazy, fat and unhealthy slob in past month..... you girls are inspiring me to change and am seriously thinking of getting the wii fit... would you recommend?


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## Nordickat

JBox - The wii fit is good if you like that kind of thing - I'm more of a fresh air person and if I'm indoors I'm on the sofa! We got one in autumn when the weather was crap and did use it then but then the snow came and we went skiiing everyday instead and haven't used the wii since then. DH uses it to track his diet though and I heard him arguing with it last night about the weight being wrong! There is good stuff for kids though apparently.

welcome back pixie   . I hope you had a lovely time in the sun.

waikiki - carrot cake must fit into a detox diet somehow. 

Han  

Love to you all, Katxxx


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## kitten77

Morning ladies!!!

you made me laugh! yes i mean coke as in the fizzy stuff, not the hard core stuff!!!!  saying that tho, i got new pain killers from the doctor yesterday (tramidol?) and for 2 hours i was on a massive high, my boss was laughing at me as all i was doing was talking! then i went down hill, felt so ill, couldnt see, couldnt hold a pen, boss took me home and i passed out! slept for hours and couldnt even walk! all fine today but that was weird! sad thing was the tablets took away the pain now i cant take them!! boo.

JBox - i havent done any fitness either, im just getting the game as present on friday, i played it at a girls nite last friday and it was great so much fun.....like the Just Dance game! 

and diet not going well, just had kitkat (the 4 fingered one!) and packet of crisps.....so hungry!

last day of work this week for me!


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## vw22

Kat, cute dog!


Beginning to wish I had this wii thing, sounds great, but no tv and presume you need that. I will have to make do with dodgey videos on you tube...


Waikiki, the weird thing is that when in treatment I am so healthy and when I'm not, I just go mad. 


Then I thought to myself I need to look at this a different way. Why am I only healthy when doing a transfer? Thats such short term thinking. Trying to have a baby has become such a cycle of events...pre transfer get healthy - post bfn chuck it all out the window. Its ridiculous isn't it. But then I realised I really I needed to look at life long-term. The having a baby bit (although a massive chunk and the most important part of my life at the moment) is just a small part of a bigger picture. Really I need to be eating and excersing for a better life full stop, for my own sake!


If there is one thing this horrible journey has taught me, its how to eat better.


Pinkpixie, hope you get a good reply. Sorry, I am probably the last person to be able to motivate you!


JBT you sound already motivated!


JBox you are going to get a lot fatter yet...but thats a good thing!!!


Kitten...good to hear someone eats chocolate. I was so sick of being told how many brazil nuts we needed to eat in a day!


vx


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## Han72

Hi all

vw - Brazil nuts   (unless they're chocolate coated of course  )

Kitten - I'm so sorry but I've been PMSL at your coke and tramadol posts, we're going to have to change the name to the Veteran Junkies thread if we're not careful    Seriously though, I hope they can find a painkiller that sorts out the pain without making you act like an extra from Trainspotting! Er sorry that didn't sound very serious at all but I genuinely do hope they can find something that works   

JBT -  hon, I'm sure your cuz gets it and doesn't think you're weak at all. Cos you're not!   

Could you lot all please stop talking about your exercise routines you're making me feel bad! The only exercise I get is walking the dog. Mind you she's very energetic so we're talking an average of an hour walk daily. And she tends to pull on the lead so at least my arms get a good work out too, being dragged around by 15kilos worth of curious, energetic beagle really builds up the biceps! I have a yoga DVD and can't even be bothered to stick it in the machine, how lazy is that ?!    

Sorry no more persos but my poor tiny brain can't cope with doing more, but I do love the vibe on this board, I wish they were all like this!  Well I'm fortunate with all the boards I volunteer for, but there are some that are nowhere near as supportive so thanks you guys!!!

And thanks everyone for your comments re Ms Counsellor. There's a bit more to it than I wrote in that message so I think she might have got it right but, as others have pointed out, she was a bit hasty and it doesn't help that she then had to leave the country for 3 weeks  Never mind I'm sure I'll be fine in the meantime thanks to my lovely fertility friends 

Finally, just to stick my two pennorth in on the subject of not so exotic locations



Mrs Rock said:


> Remind me where you are in the world vw? This is a very glamourous international thread! I am i boring south east London  Athough actually I do like it where I live.


I used to live on the South Circular. Literally! Just down the road from a gun shop  which, due to the gentrification of SE6     is now a coffee bar (I was going to say coffee shop but that made me think of Amsterdam and given the recent posts on this board thought it was best not to go there   )



kitten77 said:


> i am in ungalmourous Wiltshire in england,


And I was brought up in a little town near the Hants/Wilts border...

Who knows, maybe we've met in person at some point in our lives, it's a small world after all my friends


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## Nordickat

vw - if you think thats cute you should see his 'woe is me, its sooooo hard being a little dog, nobody loves me, I'm soooooo sad, can I have a little piece of cheese to cheer me up' look.

I'm with the unfit pose I'm afriad and all I do is dog walk these days too. Up until my mc though I was super fit and even through the first 3 BFNs I kept it up. I'm not sure what changed really   but lunch today was a double latte and a chocolate muffin. 

Kitten - Tramadol is pretty hardcore (more than coke I'd say!) and I'm almost glad it didn't work out for you to be honest. Maybe codeine would help instead. Its less addictive and metabolises differently to tramadol so you might not react badly to it. Sadly you will probably get less of a high from it too   

As we are on the subject of illegal highs still, it is probably the only thing none of us have tried to get our embies to stick ..... maybe kitten is on to something with her coke habit.

Han - of course you will be fine, we'll make sure of it   

We are doing some big walks this summer and I have just been and bought pupster his own backpack. I called DH to tell him how expensive it was   and that it has water bladders in it. As pupster drinks puddle water DH is going to fill the bladders with vino which will make him love pup much more apparently. DH is on American radio today, there is just no end to his media whoring activities ......... funnily enough, to talk about illegal drugs. I know you have no need to know any of that info but being off sick is making me very very dull.


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## kitten77

well im glad that im making everyone laugh with my coke and tramidol habit!!!!    its laughable now the high was amazing!!!!!! but the come down not so good! boo.  

kat - loving the doggy backpack, how cool is that!!!! and to carry your wine to! brill!!!!!  and i wanna know if ive seen your media whore of a husband on telly....and plus illegal drugs.....im all he needs to know!!!!! haha.

han- haha, yep extra from trainspotting was a good description of me! - where abouts did you grow up?

vw - like you im mega mega healthy up to tx and throughout and the the BFN comes and i eat for england!!!!! so im exaclty the same. but yuor right should be all the time but sometimes i feel like letting my hair down!!!!


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## jamaicababytrying

Hey ladies

Believe me I am no poster child for Nikey or Gatorade, and it was a struglle to even put the wii cd in the console but i did it and I determined to shed some of these pounds... Han - Walking is great exercise and 1 hour of it wow you don't need any more than that! Anyway I really need to be kept motivated or I will slack off quickly and get lazy again!   For the first cycle I did everything to be "healthy" stopped drinking for a year before, eat properly, walked etc... during treatment I felt so horrible that I did nothing then the failure and i went down hill... second cycle still kept up the no alcohol slacked off on the exercise and then again a failure again slacked off big time... now drink all around   still trying to eat well and finally begining the exercise thing... now remember I have only done this for 2 days so again I am NO poster child for any healthy living  

So that's all for now from me I will definatley keep you all posted on my road to weight loss


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## pinkpixie

Hi everyone
JBT i agree its the getting started thats the hard thing you sound like you are doing really well.


Kitten at least your boss found it funny!!  I am the same when i come round from anasthetic apparently i just talk a load of rubbish hope you manage to find soemthing for the pain though.


Kat i have seen those backpacks for dogs think they are really good.


Han you must have good biceps having a beagle they are strong and not easy to train!!!


VW you talk a lot of sense i keep doing the healthy eating and then blowing it all which isnt good.


Jbox you have the greatest excuse in the world to slob out!!!


hi to everyone else


PCT have come back and said they want more info from st marys.  They want to know what st marys think about the tests and immune treatment and if they will do the treatment.  DOnt hold out much hope as already know that they belivee its down to luck and dont believe in immune treatment so they arent going to recommend it.
Detox starts on monday!!!! Also going to start running again and pony is doing better which means i can ride more which will also help.


loving this thread helps so much


xx
h


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## Nordickat

Kitten - you´ll have seen DH on tv if you´ve been keeping up your norwegian tv subscription   


Anyone having issues with their pupster pulling on the lead needs to get a doggy backpack. He was good as gold tonight apparently and was taking his new job very seriously, although he flatly refused to leave the garden without me to start with and the only reason can be because he heard DH was going to fill his bag with wine. 


Night all  . I´m going to work for a bit tomorrow and I´m a bit nervous about it    so need an early night I think.


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## vw22

H, not sure how that news from Marys affects your treatment going forward...good luck with the running!


Kat, bladder backpacks... too funny! Hope work was ok and the weekend even better...


Everyone else hope you are having a sunny one...


I like how this thread goes all sleepy at the weekends...gives me a chance to catch up!
vx


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## wobs

hey ladies....been a busy week on here what with all the tramadol and coke stories etc...     
Kitten btw I took tramadol a few years ago for my migraines - well took 2 once and then lay on the sofa totally totally spaced out - totally weird as could pinch my arms but not feel it - felt sooooo spaced out never took them again; mind you as you say it did sort the pain out - it was there still but I didn't care!  Bizarre...hope they get it sorted out soon.

VW - agree with you on the healthy eating/living full time scenario - its true I used to try and just get fit before a cycle   I'm also with some of you in that i do very little now...apart from the odd walk    but trying to go more!   

Been another crazy week.  As teachers there are only 3 times a year you can hand your notice in - I ummmed and ahhhed about the last one - end of May - and am now seriously regretting my decision to stay .  I know you should never look back and regret but I am SOOOOOOOO tired and all I seem to do it work.  I shouldn't moan as i know in 5 weeks time I'll have 5 weeks off but feel at the moment all I'll be doing is sleeping.  Anyway on that moany note (Sorry!) off to do some more work.  Hoping to stop at lunchtime and then go out with DH - that's the plan anyway.

Am reading, but rarely posting, but hopefully that's ok with you guys.  I love this thread

take care everyone
Wobs


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## JBox

HI Girlies, 

Sorry i have been a bit AWOL but i have been feeling really really quite ruff, very very sick all the time, and tired, but also really trying to get my head round everything. Am a bit in denial and am finding it v hard after so many years and treatments to accept that we are actually here and that so far so good ( not to tempt fate or talk too soon tho). Also the whole donor issue has raised some serious issues for me and i am finding it very hard to connect which sounds awful but i cant help it. i am hoping that with time it will change, and i really need to find someone who has been thro it and wont thnk me terrible for voicing my feelings.

Anyway how are you all?

Kat? you ok darling, its been a while?been thinking of you ...

Wobs - i was a primary school teacher in my former life (when i lived in the uk) hardest most tiring most draining job i have ever done!fun, but exhausting.. nothing has ever tired me out since like that job. all the reports, and lesson plans, and evaluations, and classroom displays, and thats before a child has even set foot oin the classroom!

VW, how you doing luv? i have to be honest, i never did the healthy eating / lifestyle thing!!! might explain a few things. I mean, i did eat brazil nuts - hate the things, drink pineapple juice - feel sick thinking about it, and tried not to eat too much **** but that was about it. i am a salt and vinegar crisps fiend and could never cut them out, or chocoale and at the moment, its even worse!!!

Pixie - JBT, Kittne, Mrs Rock, waikiki, and anyone else - hello girls, hope you all have a wonderful week and are doing well and Kitten, i hope your tunny pains are geting beter. 

xxx.


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## JBox

Oh, so sorry, Hans - hi to you too darling. hope you are feelin a bit better, think your counsellor might have jumped the gun a bit, and you should get a 2nd opinion. but in any case, hope france has been treating you a bit better these last couple of weeks
xxx


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## Han72

Hi all

Could have sworn I'd posted on here t 'other day but it seems to have disappeared?! On the crackberry so can't read back and will have to do persos from memory - so this should be short and sweet   

jbox hon - sorry you've been feeling blah  You've probably heard this one before but have you tried eating little and often? I think the nausea's worse if you let yourself get hungry so it's good to try and eat something every 4 hours if you can.

Re the DE related feelings, have you been on the donor boards here? Lots of people discussing how they're feeling and the merits of telling (the child/others) or not etc... Sorry I can't post a link but if you go to the forum home page you should be able to find the donor boards from there. Don't feel bad for not feeling all happy happy, joy joy, its totally normal, specially for us veteran Barbies 

Kitty-Kat - how was work hon? Hope it wasn't too stressful! Are you back at work today?


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## Nordickat

I hope you all had nice weekends?

Han - I hope you are getting on OK having been left in the lurch a little   

JBox - I'm sure things will all fall into place in there own time   

Wobs - When can you next hand in your notice? You sound so tired   Loads of my department are losing their jobs (they find out this week who is on the hit list) and I'm wierdly a bit jealous   The only way I would ever find my dream job is if I was to lose this comfortable one and have to think about what I really want to do with my life. I fell into this career and I'll never be brave enough to start again.

Work is rubbish! I'm doing 50% this week but I really am only here in body and not mind. DH has announced that we are only having one more try of IVF and then thats it, time to move on childless   . He is also being a complete   hole at the moment (unrelated to not doing any more tx) and I'm not best equipped to deal with it right now. He can be so truly horrid when he puts his mind to it and I find it hard to understand how he can be like that. Through all my bad days I can hand on heart say I have never ever been horrible to my DH and I even if I tried I couldn't master the look of contempt he can do   . We are off on holiday on Saturday ....... that'll be fun   . Anyone got a spare husband I can borrow for a 2 week vacation in the mountains .......... I'll not leave you without and you can have mine for as long as you like! On the puppy bladder/backpack front - the chance of him carrying much vino is slim as I had to carry his pack for a few km yesterday as he got too tired and I hadn't even put anything in it!! He does look cute in it though   

Love to everybody - I agreee that this thread is the best


----------



## waikiki

Hello ladies,

Warning: this is a depressing 'me' post, so please don't read it if you're having a bad day.  

DH and I have ben having a few heated discussions over the past few weeks about that fact that since one of our very close friends got pg after her first IVF tx that I haven't wanted to see them.  It is true, I have been avoiding them and I have tried to be honest with DH about why, about how hard it is for me to see pg women in general, but he is frustrated because they are very close friends of ours, the only ones who live in our town.  Last week he went round to see them and my friend told DH to tell me how much she misses seeing me and when will I be ready to see her again....honestly, at the moment I think the answer is never.  I know I can't say that though, so I just keep stalling and stalling.

To top that off I came home from work tonight to find a letter from another friend - I knew what it would be before I even opened it, I've been waiting for the announcement ever since we went to her wedding 6 months ago.  I told DH in a very matter of fact way that she was pg and did not get upset, but it inevitably led to another discussion, where he brought up the other friend too.  He effectively told me that I am ruining his life by never wanting to see any of our pg friends and he doesn't know how much longer he can put up with me.  If I'm really honest, I don't blame him, I wouldn't want to live with me either.

I know what he wants me to do is lock all the pain away, paint a smile on my face and go out and socialise with all of our friends as if everything is normal.  But I just can't do it.  He was shocked when I told him the other day that I didn't want to see my friend because even though she had IVF, it worked on her first time and I am angry with her because she doesn't deserve a baby as much as I do.  I was trying to be honest with him as this is what he asked me to do, but now he knows just how horrible the thoughts I have really are.

My counsellor tells me that I should see my IVF friend and share with her how hard this is for me, but I don't want to.  Even though I have shared a lot of details about our tx with her over the past 6 years and supported her every step of the way through her IVF, now that she is pg I have been left behind again and the defences have gone up.  I don't want to share a single detail with her because I feel so inadequate that I can't bear the thought of being even more the object of pity than I already am.  

I just don't know what to do anymore, some days I feel like I want to go and live in a cave away from the rest of the world.  At least that way my sadness and bitterness wouldn't have to infect everyone else around me.


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## Nordickat

Oh Waikiki I´m so sad for you reading your post     Sadly I will be of no use what so ever on how to fix it to make it right because your situation is too close to mine and I also have no idea what to do, but the cave option is top of my list at the moment. 

The one person I used to talk to a bit about our struggles has a baby now. She moved away before she got pg and we still remained close until the day she got pg and its just changed things for me. Its not what I wanted to happen, I just couldn´t stop it. Tx is such a huge part of my life and it suddenly became taboo (through my choice not hers). Now she has her baby the tx doesn´t feel taboo any more but I don´t feel I can burden her with my worries when she is so happy. So, despite promising her that once the baby came along all would be well, it just isn´t and it makes me so sad to have lost her. I know that in no way helps you, but maybe it lets you know you are not the only one feeling it. I am also ruining my DHs life apparently, not just because I avoid friends but for lots of reasons that are all failed tx related.

I suspect your counsellor is right though and you should see your friend. You don´t have to share all, you just need to say its hard, it doesn´t mean you have to tell her how much it hurts, where it hurts or really why it hurts so much. Maybe the anticipation will be worse than the event, and if meeting her turns out to be harder than you thought, well at least you tried and you know you need more time to heal. If it does hurt, it´ll hurt a lots less than other things in your life have done and you´ll get through it and recover again, then again it might not hurt as much as you think and you can get your friend back. Your DH might be proud of you for trying too  . Maybe you could arrange to meet her for coffee somewhere and at a time so you only have an hour before you have to be somewhere and then you have an escape route. I guess you have to keep reminding yourself that, OK it worked first time but there must have been times in her past when she thought she would never be a mum and would have been so jealous of you had you got pg. She does have some understanding of how you feel and just misses you and wants you back, no doubt to talk about the none baby things you used to talk about.

Otherwise, I leave my DH at home and you leave yours at home and you can come on holiday with me next week  . The mountain cabin I have chosen has pretty much cave facilities and there is no chance of meeting any other people at all. The journey there involves a 2 km row boat trip ........ I thought that was real escapism    

I´m sorry I can´t help you sort through this but I´m thinking of you and hoping that your DH puts up with you (and the same for mine) for a little longer, just enough for you to find a way forwards and out of this hole.

 Katxxx


----------



## Mrs Rock

Waikiki my heart goes out to you   .  I wish I could advise you but the thing is I am the same way, in fact I call my attitude 'staying in my cave' too.  I may also be the last person you want to hear from right now and if so I am sorry.  But I am taking absolutely nothing for granted at the moment, I am scared all the time, I still feel like I am caught in the IF nightmare.  

It feels to me like staying away from pg friends and small children is the only thing I could do to protect myself and I have almost stopped feeling guilty about that.  The thing for you is your DH's need for social contact which is a bit like my DH too.  Is there any way yor DH would see your counsellor too, with you?  Maybe it wouldn't change his opinion but he might get to understand your feelings a bit more deeply.

The only other thing I can do is to recommend the self help books I have taken the odd helpful thing from.  I was amazed I even read them, that shows you my desperation, as I normally hate self help gubbins.  They are cheesy as anything but they did have some ideas which helped me.  

Alice Donmar "Conquering Infertility"
Lyn Daley "Nurturing Yourself Through IVF"

The first one makes you feel as though you are not alone.  The second one tells you basically that if you need your cave, that's fine.  But I guess as it's causing issues in your relationship it may be time for some change.

The other thing I have done that has helped me is meet people from FF in real life.  It has helped so much to talk and socialise with others in this predicament.  My DH would be very open to meeting their DH's if it ever arose.  I don't know if it will but it may be a way to widen your social circle to supportive people.  

Sending you hugs xxxx


----------



## vw22

Waikiki, I felt so sad reading your post and my heart was breaking for the unnecessary pain you, me, we all have to go through. I have always been the one to say, go embrace it, it will never be as bad as you think. But I am lucky and live far away from pregnant friends so I would be lying if I appeared to be living the solution, cos I'm not really.


The other two have a good handle on it and I echo their views. 


I expect caves can get a bit lonely too, even though a good escape. I don't think there is a wrong or right way forward, only the one that you want to take. But your DH is affected too and that makes it harder. Be selfish. Please yourself first then you will be stronger to deal with others.


I'm no help whatsoever really but understand your sadness. vx


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## Nordickat

Me again  . I was thinking about you over dinner Waikiki, well your DH actually. I was just wondering what our 2 hubbies would say if they chatted like we do? For all mine is at the end of his tether I don´t think we would b1itch about me, just about life. I wonder if his anger at me is more through desperation that he can´t ´fix´is and make me happy, maybe its fear that things are out of his control. I´m not sure how that helps you at all but maybe MrsRock is right, if DH went to counselling with you perhaps he would see that its OK for him not to be in control and make it right, and if he could find out how to best support you (and you him) then it might make it easier for you to tackle it as a team again rather than 2 people who feel like you are aiming for different things. I think I´m just rambling, but vw is right in that reading your post is heartbreaking and it got me thinking.
Be kind to yourself, 
Katxxx


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## kitten77

hey.....like others i cant really help as i feel the same way to!! but....maybe that goes to show that your not so lonely or abnormal as we all feel the same....unfortunatly.   

i have taken myself away from pregnant friends and i too have had friends who got pregnant first (and second) time on ivf, just cant past how angry i feel - i feel bad about it i really do but i just think, why has it happened twice (well three times as she had twins) and i cant even do it once..... 

councilling sounds good, not that i hve ever went to it myself (well we did but that is another story).

as for meeting up with FF friends maybe that is a option? i have met up with one but its hard to find anyone near up for meeting...... but if anyone wants to then i will....


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## waikiki

Thank you ladies for offering such good words of advice.  Although it's not what my stubborn streak wants to hear, I know deep down that you're right about meeting my friend.  I have just been feeling so angry with her that I was worried that if we met I just wouldn't have anything nice to say.  I'll have to wait for a day or so until I feel stronger and then contact her.

Kat - if it all goes wrong, I'll be rowing my way to your mountain cabin PDQ!!!  What you said about DH is exactly right, he has told me himself that he gets angry because he sees how unhappy I am all the time and can't 'fix' things for me.  I'm going to see my counsellor tomorrow morning, so I'll ask about the possibility of DH coming with me to future sessions.

VW - I know that the cave option isn't really very sustainable(!)  So I will try and take your advice and embrace it.

Kitten & Mrs Rock - Re the idea of meeting FFers locally, there is a group of 9 or 10 us who have been meeting regularly for 3 years or so.  Sadly for me they all have children now, so we meet less frequently and tbh I couldn't even face going to the last meet.  As happy as I am for all of them, even ex-FFers end up talking about breast feeding and potty training once they have kids, which is pretty tough going for me.  Being infertile amongst your 'real world' friends is bad enough, being infertile amongst a group of FFers is downright depressing.  I wish that we all lived closer to each other so that we could meet up (and hide in Kat's cabin when we needed to!)

Mrs Rock - I notice that your scan was scheduled for today, don't hold back on my account, let us know how it went.

   to you all.

waikiki


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## Han72

Waikiki hon     I have to say I don't think you should force yourself to see her until you're good and ready. Obviously I'm not a counsellor and I myself am totally fed up with being forced into situations I'd rather avoid so I'm probably not the best person to advise, but I just wanted to let you know I totally understand how you feel and send you more    

Love,
The Anti-Barbie 

KittyKat - as you can see my brain's still not functioning properly, I didn't finish that post properly and then forgot to come back and edit it  So wot's your dream job then, just out of curiosity? I wanted to train as an acupuncturist and set up a specialist retreat somewhere for fertility patients but that all went t1ts up when the school I wanted to study at went bust  Bless your pup and the wine backpack   

Wobs - bummocks re being peed off at work  However i gave up work on the basis that I needed to concentrate on ivf with the result that obviously it didn't work and now I can't get back into what I was doing before and I'm stuck at home all day going slowly    It might have been better if I was still in the UK (I'm pretty sure I could have at least got a temp job) but it's all adding to feeling of isolation I have here so I would say think carefully about what you'd do with your days if you gave up work...

Pink Pixie - how's the detox going? This is definitely the weather for it, I don't feel like eating anything at all and I must have drunk gallons of water and juice over the last couple of days!.

Hi Mrs Rock  How are you hon?

Hey JBT how's the healthy lifestyle going ?

Kitten - I'll pm you hon 

Cat Deeley vw - pmsl at "multi-storey carpark "   

Love to anyone I've missed 

xxx


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## Winegum

Hello Ladies

Long time no hear from me. Not been ignoring you, far from it, been lurking and I'm dying to join in the chatter about friends and other stuff but it is too late for a mega post now. I will try to set aside time v soon. It's crazy, but I'm going through a period of time where there are so many demands on my time that the time for me (which was usually spent on FF and knitting, though not at the same time) has evaporated. I'm sure you all know what it's like, it just comes in waves, but I wonder if I will ever have any regular free or me time again  I also feel like everything I do (apart from IF related) is for someone else, I mean I'm always doing things for other people and none is doing anything for me 

When are we going to officially celebrate our thread's BFPs??  I always think it is so sad that we can't completely *enjoy* the first flush of pregnancy, or the second, or the third, due to complete fear of loss of everything, however, to our 2 ladies who are in that first flush, you know who you are  like everyone else, I am sending you lots of support, love and hope. I hope that soon you will be able to believe it and live it and the fear will be balanced out with joy and confidence.

One personal which I can't resist: *Nordickat*, remember the last time you went on holiday?  I'm sure things with dh will cool off once you get there.

Much love to you all
Winegum xxx


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## jamaicababytrying

Hey ladies, been a long week... having a crappy few days as well...  

I hear all a you loud and clear about the pregnant friends, i don't want to be around them and i avoid them at all costs... so Waikiki take your time hon, if you don't want to go then don't! u will be uncomfortable and she will feel bad so it's a lose lose situation... i have my Goddaughters birthday on Wednesday she is 1 so a big reminder of my failure last year, she was born shortly after i had my failed ivf cycle   i don't know how i am going to make it and hubby may not come with me so that is even harder as he is my support in times like these, and people just don't understand  Hubby is great with it as he is my protector but at times he thinks like i guess all other husband's that i am being silly and pushing away friends... 

So the other issue we are battling and hubby is very cautious of is having his father come live with us   I just don't know if i can manage that  but how do i say no, i would hate to think that if i needed my parent to live with us he would say no so i just can't! but he has become some what a recluse has some issues and hubby is concerned i can't handle it with all i am going through but we may not have a choice    i   he doesn't want to live here that's my only out  

Then my period started and having some serious cramps and as usual the period means no baby even though i know it is near impossible to even get pregnant naturally  well let me stop rambling...

Han healthy living not going so hot haven't exercised since friday so tomorrow i plan to catch  up! hopefully   i can't seem to get up early to do it and when i get home in the evenings i am either too hungry or too tired! trying to maintain good eating habits though so that is a relief.

enough of me, Kat hope u have a good trip, waikiki i hope u feel better really i do sorry i couldn't offer any words of encouragement i am just as miserable so you are not alone... kitten wish we were closer i'd meet with you 

vw, mrs rock, pixie, winegum, jbox, wobs


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## wobs

Hey ladies...
am being good and not going in to work at the crack of dawn this morning, which invariably leads to a migraine by hometime   ...so thought I'd catch up on here.  Mind you by the time I've read through all the posts will now be running late!    It's lovely its so busy on here, but sad there is so much for people to deal with.
I'm with you all on the pregnant friends thing....Waikiki    Would it be easier to phone her first and explain? Perhaps easier over the phone?  I don't know; thankfully lots of wiser FFers have got in there first!
Luckily for me most of my friends have been pretty sensitive - although have to say did moan at my SIL recently when she complained about having to get up early with child - said i would be more than happy to be tired if I was looking after a child...she didn't get it....(she had had problems too - so I suspect as Waikiki says once you have kids you maybe more on and forget a little)
Agree with WG re: BFPs... It is great news and give everyone hope. 
Thanks for thoughts re: job...Agree with you Han re: giving up job and then not having anything to go to.  The thought is seriously appealing but not only would we be broke very shortly, but may also struggle to get anything else.  There is a high demand for teaching jobs.  I'm also pretty well paid and I was trying to be logical when I decided not to leave yet until we had been to the ARGC so we wouldn't be quite as broke.  I just need to shut up and get on with it for the moment, but when a place changes so quickly (new HT) it is very very sad to see.
Kat - sure you'll enjoy your holiday when you get there.  DH will relax too I'm sure.  My DH too keeps hinting we need to set a limit, this one should be our next treatment, but then I mention donor egg/sperms and the debate goes on.  However I do think for myself we do need to set a limit - but just think it might put too much pressure on treatment if it is decided beforehand - if that makes sense.   
Well I'd better get going now or I will be late
take care all
and hope everyone has a better few days     
Wobs


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## JBox

Waikiki, 

I hear you loud and clear honey. I cant tell you how many friends of mine over the past 3+ years of my ttc got pregnant, had babies who are now toddlers and /or pre schoolers. And for me the hardest thing I found to deal with were the time frames… you know a pregnancy is 9 months long and in infertility terms when every month you are desperate and longing that this might be the month, that is such a long time, so when you go through  2 or 3 or 4 pregnancies at different times of various friends, it is virtually impossible not to get upset and down about it.And that is why for me I had to distance myself from these people out, to stop them causing an everyday reminder on the one thing I wanted and didn’t have. 
My DH did not get it at all. He didn’t  understand how I could not want to see good friends just because they were pregnant. And as much as I tried to explain it to him, he didn’t see a correlation between the two.His theory was good friends will understand, but it wasn’t about them understanding my situation or being sympathetic, for me seeing them with their growing bellies, was just a constant reminder of where I was trying to get to and could never imainge reaching. But in order to appease him, I did meet up with a couple of them -after all these were mutual friends of ours and I didn’t want to cause a rift. But I would spend hours after complaining about how insensitive they had been about something they had said, or how crap it made me feel which totally defeated the object.  Even my friend who had twins after her 6th IVF suddenly forgot what it was like to be on the ivf journey and became so immersed in her pregnancy and so completely unaware of my struggles, that seeing her was difficult. You know I talked to my councellor about it and she said that these treatments take so much out of us physically and emotionally and the disapointments are so crushing, that we have to do as many things that make us feel better, to surround us with the people who make us feel good and to stay away from those who don’t. I really took on that advice in the past few months and as much as I love some of my friends, I found that I had to take a break from them and then only see them on my terms when I felt it was right. It helped, made me more in control of the situation. So Wakiki, you have to do what is good for you and what makes you feel ok… and your DH has to try and understand that. However hard it is for him, he has to put your needs first.
But I will say this, your friend's reach does sound sympathetic. She doesn’t sound like she is pushing you. I wonder if by seeing her on your terms ( maybe without baby, in a mutual place, café / restaurant, at a time that suits you – ie if she cant do it and suggests you come over to her, then u decline) may be easier and of course would help bridge the difference between you and DH over this. You know sometimes meeting your fears head on is never really as bad as the anticipation. Maybe your friend just plain and simple, misses you and wants to see you. Maybe she doesn’t want to sit and talk babies, and nappies and feeding times but just wants to see how you are coz she geniunally cares. I have found myself over the past few years putting on so many brave smiles and faces in situations, that I actually think I could win an oscar. But sometimes for the sake of my relationships with my friends / dh it has been the best thing to do… even if I really wanted to curl up in a ball under my duvet and cry. And then there were other times when I simply did not feel strong enough to pretend and it was easier to curl up and hide away. But whatever you decide to do, we are here for you hon to talk about it, to air your fears / worries / sadness coz we all get it… when others don’t 

BIG HUGS 


JBT - good luck with the deicsion agabout the FIL... tough one that


xxxxx


----------



## wobs

Jbox - meant to say hope you are feeling better soon & yes as one of the other ladies says sure they will be some wise words on one of the other boards.   
Just came back on to say this & saw your lovely post too.  Makes so much sense
Must go!!
Wobs


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## kitten77

morning everyone. what great advice all on here, im taking some for myself, im totally taking the advice about surrounding yourself with people you want to, as all too well i do see people just to keep friendships and then sometimes i wonder why as i dont want the friendship anyway (nothing to do with pregnancy...even tho they will prob be the next ones to get pregnant anyway). 

han - have you pmed? have i missed it?

just wanted to pop on here this morning to say hi.  nothing really to say, gotta pop to a seminar (oooo hark at me!) this morning but its gonna be welllll boring. 

on the fitness front, i have that zumba for the wii.....got it on friday......its still in the packet! hahahaaha.


----------



## JBox

HA HA KITTEN - my exercise routine the last week ha been from the kitchen to the sofa to bed, via the fridge. NIGHTMARE

hows your tummy these days?


----------



## Nordickat

I just had to quickly come on and share my gold star news with you   . My shrink made 'connections' with me today that she has never had before and apparently I shared more thoughts too ........  I think my brain just fell out onto the table to be honest but she did manage to piece it together somehow she claims. I was even allowed to have my hard core meds back in case of emergencies on holiday. I also confessed to my tree cutting rage and after she had picked herself off the floor from laughing, she said she would vouch for my diminished responsibilty   . So anyway, even if I don't feel it, the meds are working and actually I do feel better now she has told me I'm doing good   

I know that was a 'me' post but usually those are negative so I thought a posiitve one was good.

Katxxx

PS. I also noticed your scan date MrsRock ........... please put our minds at rest.


----------



## waikiki

That's great news NordicKat - so glad that you've cheered us all up after my depressing post last night!


----------



## pinkpixie

waiki am very glad i am not alone with the bitter and evil thoughts.  I to have had many friends (i thorough ivf) and my sis being preganat all at the same time and it so hard.  Not a lot i can say that hasnt already been said but i did find it helped to say no to events that would really depress me such as christening but always thanked them for asking me.  I have started trying to be honest with people how i am feeling but like you hate feeling an object of pity!!! It does sound like your friend is sympathetic and she probably misses you but look after yourself.

Kat - enjoy your hol glad that the meds are working you can have my Dh for your hol if you want he is lovely on holiday just turns into a miserable so and so when we are back at home   

Mrs rock please put us out of our misery

Jbox hope you are feeling better.

Kitten hope you enjoy your seminar what exciting topic is it on??

wobs i know what u mean about the extra pressure if you set a limit beforehand idea scares me to death.  One of my friends used to be a primary school teached and she never had anytime to herself

JBT yey on the healthy eating have been telling myself that i will go for a run tonight!!!    i think we all hope each month we might be lucky.

Han hope you are feeling better.  the detox isnt going very well   

hi to wimegum vw and anyone else

xx
h


----------



## Han72

Nordickat said:


> I think my brain just fell out onto the table to be honest


      You have such a wonderful way with words! And not surprised she PHSL at the tree story, that really was an absolute classic  YIPPEEE!!! re the connection, however it was made, that sounds so positive hon, I'm really pleased for you!



Nordickat said:


> PS. I also noticed your scan date MrsRock ........... please put our minds at rest.


YEAH! Whut she said!     

Waikiki - that wasn't depressing. Living in France with no chance of a decent cooked breakfast, now THAT'S depressing    Seriously, I'm sorry if I spoke out of turn yesterday - I did say I probably wasn't the best person to advise  I hate to disagree with the professional (and deep down I know these things are rarely as bad as we think they're going to be) but I just get so irritated to see us VB's being made to feel guilty about not being able to be overjoyed everytime we get another pregnancy announcement (ff'ers excluded, of course!) Really hope you're feeling a bit better today   

Pinkie - sorry the detox isn't going well but soddit you can always start tomorrow!

Kitten - well you bought it didn't you? Surely its the thought that counts    I forgot to send the blasted PM, will try to do it in a minute (assuming I don't forget again   )

Jbox - I'm liking your exercise routine, sounds perfect   

Erm... I think I'm probably not the best person to advise re exercise either 

Love to all!

xxx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Wobs you are so right about the job situation... Han i too quit my job when i started out in this journey fortunately or unfortunately depends on when you asked me, they asked me to stay on part-time so that helped it's been 3 years and a financial strain for me and i hate my job... now i want to go back full time because i am 1) getting bored, 2) need to increase my financial worth and 3) boost my confidence. But now the job market is so bad that it is hard, I also don't know what i want to do! My confidence level is hot to hell and so i don;t think i can even manage an interview much less a brand new position in a field i have no clue, because i really want to leave the field i am in now (hotel). Infertility truly does play on your psyche and it is hard to get out of that rut... I agree Wobs that the anticipation and stress that you put on yourself knowing that this is the last one is harder than the tx itself, i know because i am at that place right now... I am so afraid to commit to doing this FET because i know it will probably be the last chance we have... unless i get another job that pays more and we can save up enough to do another cycle! I have so much more to say on those matters (job and limit of tx) but i won't...

JBox you have made some good points and I think i need to follow your advise only thing is though my friends have all had kids naturally so they don't know the struggles and all my friends kids and my nieces and nephews are older which also makes me feel sad because not having my own i have missed there development not sure if this makes sense but it's hard to see that these older kids have grown so nicely and i wonder if i will have the opportunity to mold and develop a child's life, will i make a difference in someone else's life... it hurts, it hurts to know that when my nieces and nephews once loved to see auntie are now older and don't really care to see auntie! there is no sharing so no kids for me to nurture and the ones i do have around me don't want me   i hope what i am saying was expressed correctly...

Re FIL he will get back to us in a week, but we may be traveling to see DH's son in the states *sigh*    He thanks us for the kind offer but I am sure he won't come! My husband thinks he would rather live with his sister (from a second marriage) but she can't manage that right now. He thinks she's his favourite and would rather be with her and her brother... anyway that's a whole different story... they had a family meeting last night and it went on for hours he said but they had a good meeting of the minds so we'll see what he chooses... secretly i hope he chooses not to come but i know deep down it will hurt DH. I just don't think i can manage that right now...

So we are off to the beach today, no work for me and it is a scorcher today so lots of sun block...


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Kat      so nice to see you made progress... +ve posts are always a welcomed change...

Kitten I totally understand, but when you do happen to open the package lemme know what you think   i am falling and i am trying to get back into the swing of things     kind of feeling disappointed in myself, but will not feel sorry for myself  

Pixie there is always tomorrow, don't beat up yurself too much!

Have a good day ladies well it's afternoon now so enjoy the evening!


----------



## Mrs Rock

Hi ladies
I'm sorry, I did not mean to keep you in suspense.  I would've been an insensitive old boot to have posted about scan yesterday and was not sure whether this thread was really the place anyway   .  Then I was in the office all day today and I do have a sneaky read of FF there but I cannot post.  It was good news.  We saw a heartbeat and the measurements look good.  After my last 7 week scan my nerves were in shreds and the whole thing was a bit like an out of body experience.  I couldn't look until I was sure it was ok, I didn't even open my eyes, and then I wept all over the sonographer.  I still can't relax and I still woke up at 5am again today, haven't been able to sleep later than that since my positive test.  But I am a bit reassured and now just trying to keep the lid on my anxieties while I wait for next scan which is should be on 11 July, at 9 weeks   .

I'll shut up about it now as if there is one thing which has upset me on FF in the past it is bloody preg ladies banging on about it on tx support threads.  I swore I would NEVER be that person!!!

Will do personals tomoz as right now just in from work and knackered xx


----------



## wobs

Mrs Rock - yeah!!!!  Great news....Please keep us posted.  We do want to share your journey.  

hi everyone.
another long day.  have read & now going to go and collapse.  DH on dinner duty!!
Kat - so pleased you're feeling better

ttfn
Wobs


----------



## vw22

Mrs Rock...somehow a veteran barbie baby, is so much more joyous to hear about than a first time ivf baby. So wallow in your good scan news, you deserve it and we all think the same I am sure.


Kat... I think you should write a book. The 'shrinking Violet' or something. A guide to the sofa of a shrink and how to keep your sense of humour. I am serious! "The seriously funny side of therapy".
I am a designer /illustrator and would love to illustrate your comments. It would be a great read for anyone in, thinking about, of know of someone...in counselling world. I think you could really help people get through and navigate it all.


Back to the friends that are pregnant issue. I often see a woman (who I don't know) walk past with a toddler that was pregnant when I was. It reminds me of the film "Notting Hill", that bit where they scan over a year along the market through all the seasons, when there is also a pregnant woman and then theres a baby bla bla in about three minutes. I feel like my life is whizzing past in three minutes and there are all these woman moving on so much faster than me.


Having said that its my DH who won't meet his friends cos the whole baby thing not me! He can't handle it. Drives me nuts. I don't think I am anything special and have really 'embraced it' but I just don't want to isolate myself from people and worry that it means that the baby 'infertility' thing is taking over my life, which I don't want. But I am probably just kidding myself and making life way too difficult. It doesn't need to be that horrible. So maybe I should take a leaf out of all your books and avoid it altogether. So I said no to a party coming up of kids and more kids, and I bet I will feel better because I don't go!!!


Sorry just rambling really!


By the way I thought surroogacy stuff would be easy after everything I have gone through AND ITS NOT...not yet anyway!!!


vx


----------



## waikiki

Yay Mrs Rock, great news!!!         As vw rightly pointed out, we always like to hear all about veteran barbie babies! Thank you for thinking of me and not posting last night, that in itself proves what a kind person you are and why we cannot be anything but happy for you.   

Han - just PM me your address hun and I'll slip you a full English into a jiffy bag and it'll be with you before you know it!      Seriously though I wasn't at all offended by what you said last night, I feel exactly as you do a lot of the time and have been putting my foot down very firmly about not seeing people I don't want to see.  It's just now that it's affecting DH and my relationship that I know I have to try....I am willing to try for him, wouldn't be for anyone else though.

VW - I'm sorry that you are finding the surrogacy tough, I can't imagine what it's like so can offer no real advice, but you know that you share as much or as little as you like with us.  Re. your life whizzing by, I keep thinking of the 2 friends that are now pg...they are 2 of the only friends I have told about our IVF, because when we started ttc neither of them were even with partners let alone thinking about babies, which somehow made it easier to talk to them than my other ttc and pg friends.  Their lives have now whizzed passed mine and I am still in exactly the same place as the day I told them about my IF 6 years ago....in fact that's not true, I'm not in the same place, I'm in a much sadder, lonelier place, but still without a baby.

JBox - I too spend lots of time moaning about friends being insenstive after we have met them, which was another reason why I have been avoiding my pg friends.  But I know that you're right, for DH's sake I do need to try.

Pixie - don't worry about the detox hun, mine had been going really well until I went into melt down last night and ended up eating a Mars Bar and a slab of brie the size of my head!  

Kitten - how about opening the DVD packet, that's got to burn a few calories right?!  At least that's what I told myself last night as I unwrapped the brie...  

JBT - It does sound like having your FIL to stay now would be difficult to cope with on top of everything else, but I hope that your DH will not be too disappointed if that is what happens.  

Wobs - please can you have a word with my DH, as he was supposed to be on dinner duty but is now upstairs playing the piano.  You obviously have yours better trained than I do!!

Well after last night, today definitely hasn't been one of my better days - went into work looking like   from all the crying.  But you ladies have helped me through it and I thank every one of you from the bottom of my heart.


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## pinkpixie

waikki blame the swollen eyes etc on hayfever thats what i do after one of my crying sessions in the car.  Please remember that we are all here for you.


Mrs rock congratulations thats wonderful news like others have said is good to hear some nice news and we all have our fingers crossed for you


VW   cant really add anything about surrogacy but we are all here if you want to talk about it.  It does feel like life is passing me by you end up putting everything on hold through tx and everyone else seems to be getting on with it.


JBT hope your fil makes the right decision for you   


had convinced myself to go running but didnt have the energy but at least i rode my pony so thats some exercise but am now tucking into a strawberry milkshake that DH made but at least that must count towards my 5 a day in fact does it count as 2 cos its got real strawberries in and strawberry ice cream   .  The smoothie machine was bought to make healthy fruit smoothies but we have discovered homemade milkshakes!!!


x
h


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## Nordickat

vw - I have just read our post at least 5 times, the bit about the pregnant toddler    I can be quite simple sometimes and it took me ages to work out that the toddler is in fact not pg. I was getting so annoyed that even flippin toddlers get up the duff these days. And the book idea makes me laugh even more since I am almost illiterate!  I hope your surrogacy journey gets easier once you start to make progress. I for one am very interested in the whole thing so if its not too personal feel free too tell us all   

MrsRock - last night was inappropriate you are right, but today its great to hear about. Fab news   

Waikiki - give yourself some credit   Right now you are lonelier and sadder, but thats not what defines you. You are worth way more than that and some day we´ll be able to convince you of that    And as for your post being depressing last night, it wasn´t depressing to read, it was heartbreaking but it was the honest truth about how you feel and I hope it helped to get it out. How did your counselling go today? What did she think about DH going? Your big challenge might be getting him to go, I had to bribe mine the first time, the second time I just used the extreme method of completely losing my marbles although its not a trick I recommend.

Wobs - I was just thinking allowed on the job quitting chat, obviously its a stupid idea without an action plan. Not long til summer though   

JBT - I´m sorry you are having a hard time in so many areas of your life ...... that sucks   

Hannah - those thoughts are not bitter and evil, they are just sad and lonely    Running is bad for your knees anyway and the thought of homemade milkshakes mmmmmmmm

Han - are you ok? Any better? And lack of cooked brekkie is not depressing, not being able to buy vino after 5pm in the week and 3pm on saturdays, now thats depressing. Not being able to buy good cake, thats depressing. Not being able to buy Cadburys, thats depressing. Honestly, if you want to feel better about living in France, come and join me in Norway for a bit    

So my dream job hey? In my fantasy world I´d be a zoo keeper (no zoos in Norway) or work in the National Parks (a tad seasonal since for 5 months a year they are under snow) or own a bookshop (Norwegians have pretty narrow literary taste). In a slighty more realistic world I´d be a horticultural therapist, although I think my own mental health issues or my shyness might get in the way    Acupunturist or osteopath was an idea once too but the thought of touching gross bodies put me off. Old smelly people ....... eeeuuuwww

WG - how are you? How is the immunes stuff and what is next? Aren´t you opening a restaurant soon or am I confused? Make sure you take time for you, its more important than you think    And thanks, you are right, I did dread my last holiday too didn´t I    

JBox -    and   

 my friend just texted me to tell me about her traumatic Dr trip today. She doesn´t speak Norwegian and clearly the Dr is not too hot at English and he told her ´sometimes I might have to stick my finger up your bottom´    No wonder she is in turmoil!

Right, bed for me as I´m absolutely exhausted from trying to prove to the world I am fine. Learning to walk before I can run might be a better route perhaps   

Night all,   Katxxx


----------



## Winegum

Well you've done a good job here and *I'm* convinced you're fine *NordicKat*  - nice to see you writing lots of funny posts again. Thanks for asking about me, I'm hoping to post on Thursday night (tomorrow is swimming followed by The Apprentice so v limited FF time and I need at least an hour). 

*Mrs Rock & JBox: *Thinking of you both and hope you can exhale and get more sleep soon.

*Waikiki & Jbt:* Sorry you are both feeling wobbly atm

What am I like, I said I was going to post on Thursday! That is when I will attempt proper personals. I've got *soooo* much I want to tell you/chat about/ask for your thoughts on. By the way - we have done 55 pages  , how fab is that?

Night night


----------



## Nordickat

Winegum - I am fine I think, its just a strange kind of fine and I'm not sure what is real and whats not if that makes sense. I know its not possible to go from the place I was to the place I am so quickly and be 'fixed'. Its kind of like being fixed with cheap cellotape, you know its going to lose its stick at some point, so I need to squeeze in the UHU (or UHT   ) and do a proper job ........... maybe I should just stop over analysing myself   . And I hate the empty feeling too. I have no connection to real people at all. I know I love my DH with all my heart but when I look at him I feel nothing at all   . But I've been here before and I know it comes back and I just stop trying to rush things that can't be rushed. I am looking forward to your immunes stuff and hoping very hard that it works for you   

Kitten     I missed you off my list last night and I'm sorry. I do have an excuse though but its a bit gross. My pupster had a wet dream last night   and I was a bit freaked out since I happened to be looking at him when he did this 'thing'. I got a bit distracted by clearing up the 'mess' and forgot to come back online.


----------



## Nordickat

Sorry for yet another post from me but I had to come and tell you of the lovely thing somebody has just done for me ........ lovely enough for lots of tears to flow  . 

I came back from coffee and there was a massive hamper on my desk and I seriously had no idea who it was from. Its from one of my colleagues who was made redundant yesterday sadly but for the last few weeks I have been helping him out with references and helping him fight to keep his job. Appparently I've made him feel good about being him and motivated him to go out and find his dream job instead of just doing this because he can. Bless him, he is out of work at the end of the year and he has more of spring in his step than I have seen in ages. There must be a moral in that story somewhere.


----------



## Han72

Hi all

Just a quickie but wanted to say:

Mrs Rock - yippee!!!  congrats hon!

Nordy - awww that's so sweet re the hamper    re the dogbot, no wonder you were distracted    That's a bugger re DH but the important thing is that you do know you love him, even if you can't feel it right now. That reminds me of a quote from Pride and Prejudice, Liza Bennett says something like how she knows, rather than feels that she's happy... 
Wots this rubbish about you being illiterate by the way, you certainly write good posts for someone who's sposed to be illiterate! 

Winegum - I miss watching the apprentice on a Weds nite! I've figured out a way to get iPlayer to work here but I still can't watch live tv and its not the same watching it another day 

Kiki -  c heers for the offer of a postal fry up  which reminds me,

Kitten. - I forgot to pm you again 

So with apologies to everyone I've missed but gonna do that now before I forget again and then take the dawg out... If we had a doghouse she'd be in it today tho, wouldn't stop barking last night so I got no flipping sleep  

Love to all!
Xxx


----------



## Nordickat

Han - buy your UK ip address from some student in the UK and then watch iplayer live through vpn .......... sshhhhhh don't tell anyone about it though


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## Han72

Ooh what's VPN? I paid for a uk ip addy but iplayer live tv still doesn't work


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## JBox

Kat can u explain how that works again coz I want to do it here...


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## jamaicababytrying

Hi ladies sorry this is going to be a me me me post  i apologize in advance...

So this evening was my goddaughter's 1st birthday party, i think it was the hardest thing ever for me to attend... I don't want to feel this way but i do, i did not even want to hold her! i had her for a very short time and felt so sad and empty that i didn't even coo and ahhh and smiley! Like everyone else!!! and you know her mother really is not being very helpful, she knows what i went through she knows how hard it was for to deal with the failed cycles but i get this funny feeling that she is just rubbing her baby in my face! I don;t want to sound mean or bitter but i feel mean and bitter...

Of course there were other kids, big and small... i had to sit and listen to a good friend talk about her teenage boys and the trouble they are giving her... and i just want to break down and cry! Why, why do we have to go through this... why do i feel this way... i  just feel like such a major failure... of course my husband didn't go with me, he is usually my saving grace...

Anyway i spent and hour and a half and i couldn;t wait to leave. So now my friend wants us to spend the day together soon... she is a teacher so she will be on holiday soon which means more free time for her which means her going to want me to spend more time with them...

Worked also sucked today, i really had a crappy day all around... not sure why i can't kick these feelings... 

Well thanks for reading hope i didn't depress anyone   i am off to bed now nite nite


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## Han72

Awww JBT    hon, you already know my view on these situations  I don't think you should feel obliged to hang out with her just cos she's got time on her hands!      Do what you feel comfortable with. If she's a true friend, she'll understand and try not to feel a way about it! On the other hand, if she can't be bothered to try and see things from your viewpoint, why would you bother to put yourself out for her Does that make sense? 

Sorry if I'm talking rubbish, bit  today as haven't slept well the last couple of nites and can barely keep my eyes open now 

Love to all!
Xxx


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## Nordickat

Han/JBox - Not only am I illiterate but I´m also a technophobe. Actually maybe I´m not and its just that DH has made it so complicated. We don´t have tv or stereo we have boxes with flashing lights that all require passwords which are animal names ......... in Welsh ....... honestly, if I wasn´t bonkers already he would have driven me this way eventually. Anyway, I´ll get the info from DH and pm you both. The good news is that iplayer will be lauching an expat version later this year anyway so we can subsribe and get it without breaking any questionable laws   


JBT -   it must be hard and I think I´m with Han on the stay away front. Be selfish for a while.


I´m having an odd few days, kind of a bit scary too. I have been cycling manic up followed by terrible low but I can only see I was manic afterwards which is a tad dangerous when armed with a creditcard - oops  . And I can see it now when I read back over my posts on here and its wierd, as if the manic bit isn´t really me, I suppose it isn´t. Luckily I had a Dr appt today and he has reduced my meds a bit in case we increased it too fast ......... that will make the bankmanager happy at least   . 


Han - its the manic times that stop me sleeping I think, I´m not sure what you can do about it though really. Milk before bed to sit heavy in your stomach or lavender oil on your pillow to help relax you .......... or drugs of course


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## Nordickat

My hamper is cheeses and biscuits and chutneys and stuff, and ´When God was a rabbit´   It makes me feel very humble and I´m trying to think of what to do in return. I´ll come and meet you all anywhere    I suggest its outside of Norway though since its so expensive here. I have to confess to only using the wii fit for the scales although due to its sarcastic tone when you put on weight I haven´t even done that for ages. I´ve done some of the balance stuff though which is supposed to be good for my prolapse but that is zero impact.


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## jamaicababytrying

Han thanks, no you are not talking rubbish... i understand and i know i should do what makes me happy, i just have this bad trait of trying to make everyone happy but me! Didn't sleep last night had a really awful day and then some severe pains in my stomach/back which comes on every now and again... been to the hospital for it and they can't find what's wrong... my doc says it's stress... It could be cause it comes on when i am thinking too much about a situation like the trip we are about to take to see my stepson in the states next week   the horrible baby birthday i went to  and all the money we have spent on tickets to the states and then money we will spend while in the states...   only good thing i get to see my sister and her kids 

Yes Kat it was hard it was very hard... your hamper sounds great, never had anyone do something so nice for me, you must have really made an impact on him! 

Thanks Mrs Rock i know i should not try to avoid my own gooddaughter I just can't deal with it... i can't hold her and be happy... i can't goo goo ad ga ga all over the place with her!

Well at work and just took a break to check in with you guys...


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## wobs

hey ladies still reading... will catch up with personals at weekend
JBT   

Wobs


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## pinkpixie

Hi all
This will be a very unrelated post but could really do with some advice from people who arent involved in this situation.  BAsically i keep my pony at a yard which is also a working farm and stud, i dont agree with a lot of what goes on ie in how the animals are kept but after complaining and getting no where have sort of given up.  Things have got worse and i am unsure wether to report to the rspca or not, i think it is prob not bad enough for them to do anything but wonder if a visit will help improve things or not??  The problem is the owner will prob work out it is me who has reported it as i am most vocal about the way the animals are kept i dont want to move my horse as have been told that will prob have to have him put down soon so dont want to put him through the stress of moving but if they work out its me i wont be able to stay there.  I just dont want to keep turning a blind eye to it all have managed to get one cat rehomed (and numerous kittens) and am going to have to take another to the vets to be treated cos the owner refuses to but cant do anything to help the dogs or horses (there isnt cruelty but there is neglect they have the basics of food and water but thats it).
Sorry for rambling on i just dont know if the rspca will do anything and if they cant/wont i have caused a load of upset for no reason.  I have already made the decision that if my horse is still going strong by autumn will move him as cant cope with it all (it gets a lot worse in the winter).
Sorry for this and it isnt even fertility related but your thoughts would be great.
Thanks
xx


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## Winegum

Ladies, I've got so far as reading back, making notes and making a start on my post  I will finish it soon.
*Pinkpixie: * If you thing what is happening is wrong then say something to RSPCA.

*jbt:* sorry you had such a difficult day the other day 

love to you all xxx


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## Nordickat

H - If you are worried about it coming back to you then maybe call the RSPCA and see what they do in these situations - maybe they do 'random spot checks' so it would be nothing to do with reports to them. Sadly its just the way lots of the old farmers see things. DH grew up in the farming community and kittens were drowned in rivers and he had to beg his dad to take the cat to the vets (it had to be done in secret so no farmer saw), and when we told him we had taken one of our ducks to the vets he thought we were completely insane ..... although not as insane as the nieghbours thought I was walking down the road with a quacking box


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## jamaicababytrying

Morning ladies, actually got some rest last night unfortunately i have a migraine which started yesterday... this just is not my week... and my crackberry is dead so no phone!

Anyway *Pixie* I think you should call the rspca and ask for some advice tell them you are concerned about the treatment of animals at a particular farm, so they make random checks etc then if you feel comfortable that it will be done anonymously then give them the details... not sure how you feel about that, but it sounds like you are passionate about this and you should not let it go I understand the implications but there are other animals who need the proper care and if you can help even one then you have done a good thing. Hope this helps, i am sure the other wise ladies will have better advise 

how is everyone else doing? vw & kitten where are you?


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## kitten77

hi everyone! 

Jamacia - im still here am reading etc, but im mega mega mega busy at work and dont have time to even wee!!! so instead of weeing im posting here - now there is dedication for you my VB!!!!

so sorry no personals....will try to get on tonite!


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## vw22

I am here reading and trying to keep up but my DH is back from working away for 4 weeks so havn't had time to potter on the computer like usual! Will post properly when I can, in between dusting off the ovulation sticks (why do I bother?) and doing his washing!!! Love to all vx


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## Nordickat

JBT - I hope you feel guilty that poor Kitten had to miss her pee stop at work today so she could check in with us  
Kitten - I hope you didn´t pee yourself just so you could come on here   
Han - I´m a bit worried about you still. You know where I am though if you need anything - don´t get lonely ok?   
 to the rest of the gang.


I´m off on my holidays so you can all have a break from my inane witterings    I´ll be on my email though email buddies. I realised earlier that my first day back after work is my birthday ..... that´ll help my post holiday blues no end


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## jamaicababytrying

Kat have a great holiday, guilty hmmm not so much... just wanted to make sure we were all accounted for  she can pee any time 

vw glad to hear, dust babes dust... u can never be too sure or unsure whichever way you wish to take it!

Han whey yuh deh girl? 

Just got in from a 2p.m. meeting at work, i don't generally work on a friday, can u say waste of time?! this is why i hate my job! the people suck    

Still feeling down in the dumps, but at least i got my crackberry sorted out...


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## pinkpixie

crackberry


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## Winegum

Pinkpixie: I think it's a reference to the addictive nature of a blackberry?!


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## jamaicababytrying

You hit the nail on the head Winegum, Pixie before i got mine i used to cuss my husband about how he couldn't put his phone down etc... now i have mine, No Comment


----------



## Winegum

Hi Ladies 

Can't believe how long it is since I last posted properly - I've just read back 20 pages. Right - time to catch up. It's a long one so if you are reading on your phones, put them on charge. 

*Wobs: *Whenever I am chatting to people about work and they tell me they are putting in 50+ hours per week, I always tell them that if they aren't self-employed, they are working way to hard! I think I would be saying that to you. (I'm self-employed and do silly hours) The battle you have between doing your work/getting very tired and having some time off/recharging & relaxing really comes across in your posts and I can relate. You are clearly very professional and conscientious but sometimes you just need a break don't you? I laughed at your Mum's comment to you about praying for a miracle and how you are now cynical about it ever working. Since embarking on immune tx my parents have been making encouraging comments and they obviously think this is going to work and that Dr G is going to find our problems and fix them and all will be well. They seem a bit miffed when I respond in a neutral fashion and I try to be a bit more exited for their sakes! The belated sadness - I find it comes when you are inbetween tx but not really "doing" anything, but it's also the sadness of not yet being released from this and having to continue living with it. That hits me in waves and I'm on a bit of a downer atm about being so stuck in the same old routines and seeing a happier, less serious, less sensitive, better me somewhere in the future but not knowing when I will be free to become that person, or rather go back to the person that I think I was.

*Mrs Rock:* It's so interesting reading back over the past few weeks. So much has changed for you, and it's very exciting. I know it is difficult to post about your pg on a thread like this, but the sheer fact that you are mindful of that and have been so thoughful and gracious and honest and understanding just makes me want to ask you for more details, so I hope you will drip feed us snippets.  I think you are a very lovely and thoughtful friend re the hen party you organised. Like me, I think you are a lady who likes to do things properly even if it means investing considerable time and money in organising and executing something memorable. I hope you will get thanked and your contribution will be recognised properly at some point. Biscuits?? I'm a church-of-no-sugar evangelist. They are the work of the devil!  I munched on pistachio nuts instead. Great programme though - is your money on a Helen and Jim final? I think Helen may go in a spectacular failure and the editors are just making us believe she is going to win.

*Nordickat:* How can you be a technophobe and go on casually about vpn's and ips? I thought you were talking about visible panty somethings - I'm totally lost. Give me an Iphone however....I'm sure you'd be fine. They are not in the least techy, they are things of beauty. I didn't have a phone for 10 years, then I got an iphone and I wouldn't be without mine now. Mind you, I barely use the phone bit! It means I can keep an eye on you all during the day (no pc at work)! Glad you had a good and encouraging shrink appointment. Have you come to any more conclusions about your plans? Isn't it lovely to get recognition for something. Enjoy your hamper. Hope you are having a god time away and that you are glad you didn't swap your dh in the end. 

*Kitten: *Too busy to wee?!  God, it's ridiculous isn't it - I'm like that at work too, and I too would put off my wee in order to be able to check in with my dear FFs! I hope your tummy problems have settled down. Are you pursuing the immunes route and if so, how far have you got? If I can be of any help, do just ask or pm me. You said something about your dh thinking his sperm is too thick - well my dh's sperm is thick too. On ALL his samples, the viscosity is commented on. I read in Dr Beer's book that not drinking enough water can clog your bodily fluids generally and make mucous thicker etc and I wondered if this is the same for sperm. Should they be drinking more water? Why the viscosity I wonder? 

*Billabong:* You haven't posted in ages. Are you still lurking? I think you are starting tx shortly - If I'm right, I hope it all goes well.

*JBox:* Ages ago you asked me what I thought of Dr G. I think he is an overworked, over-stretched but very good doctor.I like analysing other people's businesses and I think his has grown very fast but he struggles with the infrastructure. I can't believe he hasn't got at least one nurse to do all the needle work and he needs a receptionist AND a PA, because I think it is poor that you don't get a written account of your appointments, but he just about manages to keep it together and he does get results - you are no exception! Have you any more idea what swung it for you this time? The sneaky ciggies maybe?  I hope your sickness lifts soon. Are you still have wobbles about the donor issue? I wonder if you have found the donor boards helpful?

*Waikiki:* Another of Dr Gs ladies! How are you getting on with your ABs? I've decided not to retest but to take another dose of Abs with my tx, whenever that will be. Have you any more thoughts on your next tx? I'm very sympathetic to you regarding seeing friends, as the others have been. It's very difficult if you are "couple" friends and expect to be seen together. I don't suppose your dh could just see the husband? I hope your dh stops putting pressure on you and accepts how you feel even if he doesn't understand it. You did sound very sad, and I really hope you can resolve it so that you feel OK about yourself and your decision. My dh is actually like vw's dh - he isn't the most sociable of men in the first place, but he isn't that interested in making an effort to see anyone, complaining that "we are always spending time with/playing with/buying presents for/cooing over other people's kids..." I used to be a lot more willing to be around people's babies etc. I wasn't jealous, I didn't want what they had, I wanted my baby, and I didn't want their situation, I wanted a family in my situation. However, for various reasons I am also becoming anti social and do you know what, I don't really care. It has occured to me that it isn't necessarily us who are moving away from our friends, it is just as much them moving away from us. It was my birthday recently and I got forgotten by a few too many people  - do you know how much I spend on birthday cards each year?? Then there are the friends (and family) who, despite knowing your struggles, don't give us a second thought and in every utterance that comes out of their mouth they hammer home to us just how wonderful motherhood/fatherhood is and how amazing their child is. Yes - we get the message, but do you get the message that it is up to me to tell you that you child is cute, and anyway, I will never feel the way that you do about your kids, even if I am a real or pretend auntie or a godmother.  (Ok, bit of an exaggeration, my nephews are very special but you know what I mean) This kind of behavior just alienates me from the child and I feel like I don't have the space to create my own relationship with the child because Mummy/Daddy are too busy doing it for me, so why bother? These are invariably the types who have parties for 1 and 2 year olds, full of adults, and your presence is mandatory, and your continuing friendship dependent upon your attendance. Another situation I find difficult is with particular friends who in fact are very sensitive, and we like spending time with them precisely because they don't fit the above mould, however, we have stopped seeing them as a family (they have a lovely 5 year old daughter) because we both find it quite painful after they have gone, having watched them being such a lovely mummy and daddy with her. I think this particularly affects dh, and then I don't want him to be upset, because that upsets me, so the result is no invites. I think the more we get left behind, the more we know that when it is finally our turn, there will be no one left to make a fuss of us because they will all be too busy with their own growing families, and that makes us reluctant to make such an effort now. 

*jbt:* You are another lady who seems to spend a lot of time doing things for other people and considering them before yourself. I don't envy you facing relatives - we have my grandmother's 95th birthday party next month and I will be taking a few deep breaths before I can face it. Not that anyone will say anything to me, but I will just feel crap about myself being the oldest grandchild but one of the only ones with no kids, and the others have all got good reason why the have no kids as they are too young for sex (well, I think so anyway)! I hope your confession to your relative helped you in some way. I think most people who have suffered IF are very sympathetic and I hope she was to you. Thank god for this thread!

*Pinkpixie:* OMG, I nearly fell off my seat when I read a recent post of yours about not knowing why we are doing this etc. I know this is a well worn topic on here but I thought you articulated it perfectly, even though you thought you weren't making any sense! I also struggle with how I feel - A LOT. I never particularly wanted kids, in fact when I was in my twenties, I positively didn't want them, but dh did and being a family was always something "in the future", but then we suddenly found ourselves in the future and I came round to the idea and we started trying, but due to my lack of periods I was in the infertility clinic within 6 months. I feel like I have never had the opportunity to long and hope for a child because I went from not really being bothered to knowing I couldn't get pg easily so I wonder if I really do want one. That yearning that so many FFs talk about just isn't there with me and I feel a freak for admitting it. I sometimes wonder why I am like this and I think that I associate motherhood with weakness, maybe due to the female role models I have had I think that because of my previously not wanting one, I know that I would be happy without children, but maybe I would just like to be able to say that we didn't want children rather than couldn't have them, cause that is weakness too. I often feel like I am doing this for my dh, but like you, I am pursuing the tx and I think if the opportunity to have tx was taken away from me I would be very upset, but I don't know if that is because I couldn't have a child or I would have suffered years of IF for nothing, or it has become my "hobby" and I wouldn't know what to do with myself like Nordikcat says.  I think mostly I just want to please my dh and make him happy. I think that I don't mind what happens either way, I just want IF not to matter anymore. He is desperate to be a dad and he thinks that this immune tx is the answer and I know he expects our next tx to work. I feel that nothing will work, but lets just do it anyway and then we will get to the end of the road quicker. That makes me feel so gulity, crap and scared. I know he wishes I was a bit more positive and would indulge him in "when you get pregnant/when we have our baby" talks. We don't talk about "when we have our baby" because I just can't bear it and don't dare. So, as you can see I'm not making much sense either and am full of all kinds of doubt. I have decided that this is like a prison sentence and I will be released when I am 45. 

*vw:* I asked about the sperm dna fragmentation in my last post and you asked what I wanted to know - do you know how to read and interpret the results? Also karyotyping - have you had that and do you know how to read the results? Looking forward to hearing more from you when you have done all dh's washing!

*Han: *How are you? Have you had any further counselling sessions? I hope they help. I agree with the others that you should get a second opinion and give it time before you accept a diagnosis. I never got time to join in the debate about living abroad, but I have been coming and going between the UK and Turkey (where my dh is from) for 17 years and I lived there for 5 years from 1996-2001. I loved living in Turkey in many ways but it wasn't without it's challenges, so I can sympathise with all that you and JBox and others who have lived abroad say. It is certainly very difficult and can be very isolating and once the novely has worn off and the excitement of being an expat waned, it can be a real struggle.

*AFM:* I have been very busy with my immune tx. I have finished a course of ABs to clear possible Chlamydia, I have had two injections of a serum made of somebody elses white blood cells to try and increase my sensitivity to dh. It's actually about 15-20 injections next to each other in each arm using the same needle and you end up looking like a pin cushion and it is one of the most painful things I have had to do so far. I'm also taking something to make my environment less defensive. I'm also still on my no sugar/low carb diet and I just wonder if something positive is happening (though it could also be a result of the ABs) - my last cycle was 35 days and I have noticed changes in my CM. It would be amazing if I start oving naturally again! At the risk of sounding a total and utter bore, the no sugar thing has become a way of life and I am almost disgusted by sugary things now - I don't recognise myself! I've had a few nice day trips to London for some of the above things and I'm booked in to have blood drawn for retests at the end of the month when we will also have an initial consultation with CRGH in London. I went to their open evening and I was very impressed. I'm hoping that the retests will show improvements in my various levels and we will be good to go ahead with tx in the autumn. My gp came through for me eventually and has referred me back to our local hospital where I started off 5 years ago and I am booked in for a hysteroscopy next week and we also had blood drawn for karyotyping last week, which, despite not having had any mc's, they are willing to do for us due to the number of failed cycles we have had. Of course there are other things going on in my life too, but it does feel like things lately have been very dominated by all this!

Big love to you all
Winegum xxx


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## Nordickat

Winegum - I only came on to send a quick pm before my holidays but I´ve been here ages reading, I even had to refill my wineglass halfway   . Your immunes stuff all sounds very full on and exciting but you sound a bit low under that huge long post. I hope you are OK. Maybe its just all so overwhelming when you obviously have so much going on in your ´other´ life too? Do make sure you take some time for you too ........ maybe you should reread what you said to wobs as it does apply to the self employed too! I can promise you I am a technophobe and vpn is something I click on in order to watch tv but I have no idea what it is. And as for ip address, well that is completely beyond my comprehension. If DH ever gets sick of me and leaves then my life will fall apart and I won´t even be able to watch tv or use the phone anymore ........ or access any of our cash now I think about it   . DH has wound his neck in now so holidaying together will be fine, and if not we have loaded a sea kayak so I have the perfect escape   


Well, I´m off to send my pm and then thats me gone. I have had one of those ´I´ll never be a mum´ kind of crashes and I´m suddenly feeling very very lonely so desperately need to get away and be on my own so I feel less lonely - wierd how it works like that hey? I´ve had so much else to think about the last few weeks I had forgotton about the actual BFN and now its hit me I think and I´ve suddenly remembered what the ultimate goal is supposed to be ...... not to worry though as a baby wouldn´t fit in this holiday anyway.


Be good, Katxxx


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## pinkpixie

Kat have a lovely holiday 

Winegum that was a mammoth post  what you said stuck such a chord with me especially the idea that nothing will work but it is just a process to go through cos then we will be "allowed" to stop trying. When i have talked to people about our next cycle being the last they have been of that will be so hard and so much pressure on you and it will be but part of me will be relieved cos then at least it will be over and we can move on  is that awful of me You have done so well with the no sugar people do say that your taste buds change. How do you find Dr G if we cant get our funding transfferd to CARE then our other option is you have our immune treament with him and ICSI with our NHS hospital still. How are you finding the immune treatment i must admit a lot of it still scares me You mentioned about DH sperm being thick my DH had this and made a real effort to drink a lot more water and it did change for the better for his next sample (where else would you get to discuss DH's sperm samples but on this site   )

JBT - ahh that explains it have not got one cos i dont like touch screens but my DH loves his. Hope ypu are feeling better   

Kitten hope you made it to the toilet in time   are you still looking at immune treatment

VW hope you are enjoying doing the washing and managed to dust off those sticks

Wobs how are you hope work has calmed down.

Mrs Rock   how are you??

Jbox how are you feeling hope you have managed to find some help on the donor boards.

Han have you manged to see the counsellor again??

hi to everyone else

AFM have managed to resolve some of the animal issue in my head some of it has actually improved in the last few days me and my friend are going to take the poorly cat to be treated ourselves cant really afford it but needs doing. Will monitor the dogs and if things get worse will call RSPCA also considering that am going to keep my head down for a few weeks and then will prob call RSPCA for a chat am hoping it wont be so obvious that its me if i havent been kicking off about stuff. Anyway it has made my mind up that if my pony is still doing ok by sept then will def be moving him as it always gets a lot worse over winter and i cant cope seeing it everyday. Will def call the RSPCA then!!!
Tx wise our PCT is meeting on tues to see if they will transfer our fuhnding. We have 1NHS go left (i know we are lucky) and want to move it from St marys in manchester to care so we can have immune treatment. Also the success rates for st marys are shockingly poor and the dont like doing anything diff such as altering drugs or blasts and have really reduced the amount of monitoring they do. Ideally we want to move all our treatment to care (we will pay for immunes ourself) but they are still considering it and where waiting for more info from St Marys. I am not holding my breathe  

xx
h


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## wobs

hi ladies

Wow WG what a post!! Am seriously impressed.  I'll aim for something like that in the summer hols i think!!!   
I agree with you totally about work - there is too much to do and not enough hours to do it in.  Have got to keep working these silly hours til the summer hols - 3 1/2 weeks - and then hopefully it will calm down for September....I agree with Kat - perhaps your comments apply to yourself as well about not working too hard   ....I am much better now at making time for myself, but perhaps I need to do something other than sit on the sofa and watch telly/read as I invariably fall asleep within 10 mins    Actually we are quite good at going for little strolls too, but more poor garden is looking very much in need of weeding

Mrs Rock - yes I'm like you have stayed in the same job as i didn't think it was fair to move somewhere else while needing time off for treatment - but then I've always felt guilty and fitted it into the hols when i can!!   Sorry can't help with wii fit - would love a wii but our sitting room isn't big enough (tiny!!)

Pinkpixie - glad the horse situation seems a little better.  We once phoned the rspca about a neighbour - because they didn't walk their dog ever and it couldn't get out into the garden - but they said there was nothing they could do....grrrrrrr....

JBT - hope your migraine got better quickly.  I suffer too for 1-2 weeks a month   - they are horrible.  Had a week of them last week!!! Dr wants to put me on pills but don't want to go on them if they will interfere with treatment - she has suggested betablockers and says they are fine to take even in pregnancy, but going to try and keep off them for now.  GLad your phone is happy again.

Kat -hope you had a super hols!

Hi everyone else
Well a slightly longer post but still not marvellous....
Off to work now
have a good week all
Wobs


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## JBox

WOW WG, what a post, i love it when you post, you address everyone in such detail! I hope that you find your answers with the immune testing , you certainly are doing the whole whack... fingers crossed. 
Hi everyone else. 
I am just popping in to say, thanks for the lovely kind words from you all. i have popped over to the donor threads, havent found any real comfort there, not due to the lack of wonderful ladies there, but just coz i think the problem is really something inside me that must deal with but i do think in time its will resolve itself. i feel much better today than i did 3 weeks ago, but i still have this terrible nagging feeling deep down that i am a bit of a fraud, that this pregnancy is not really very much to do with me!
So news my end…Did some bloods last week and turns out i have tested positive for CMV - which can be very dangerous for pregnant woman. Apparantly the virus can be passed on to the foetus which can have serious consequencs. I think they only way to find out what the real story is to wait til week 20 / 21 and then do an amnio... TBH i dont think i can cope with much more. I mean what else? So we are off to see the dr on weds for a consult and a scan ( week 9 or 10 I think) ... have no idea what he is going to suggest, he might just say its all fine and not to worry, but im not sure and anyway its hard not to!
My other worry at the moment is this. My step daughter couldn’t bear anymore to live with her mentally unstable, nasty cruel negligant mother, and came to live with us over a year ago full time. She has never looked back. She doenst visit her mum, isnt interested in seeing her, and in the past year has turned into a beautiful, confident, happy girl with lots of friends. She got the top marks in her year at her school and is working a job to earn money for her holiday in the summer, is happy, content, and enjoying life. Well, my husband back in may last year received from the courts, temporary custody of her and was told that he no longer needed to continue paying maintainance money to his ex. The mother never contested the custody overturn and never once tried to get her daughter to come back and live with her. In two weeks, the permanent custody case is coming up in court, and now the ex has taken some hot **** lawyer friend of hers to represent her( so she doesnt pay) and is suing us for last years money, for some other money that she said she never received ( a lie). She is not interested in her daughter, isnt contesting the custody and isnt requesting that her daughter come back to live with her ( she has never cared for her daughter) but she wants all the money she feels is owing to her. She has stated many times that she believes we are millionaires ( I wish!) and that she has nothing – never mind she owns her flat outright and has a car, a very rich mother and father and is certainly nowhere near the bread line! The law unfortunatley in this country is on her side. It states that even if the father has custody he still has to pay money to the mother every month for visitation expenses etc. but my step daughter has never visited her mum once in the past year, she has not stepped foot in her mothers house since the day she left and has only ever seen her at once family party she went to. Well now she is saying that we kidnapped her daughter, that her daughter has no boundaries, no rules, can do what she wants, is running the streets. Oh its just so awful. I am so stressed with it and I just know that this stupid judge we have is going to make my husband pay money to his ex, for NOTHING…. Its like basically giving her a monthly hand out. He was married to her 5 years, has been divorced for 11. He has paid every single penny he was supposed to up until the day that his daughter came to live with us a year ago when he got the temporary custody from the courts. he paid for every single item of clothing that she posseses, every holiday, every out of school activity, every meal, every activity, every outing that she has had to this day, the mother has paid for nothing done nothing, but smoke drugs, bring men into the house and take the maintainance money and spend it on herself. She has a wardrobe of shoes that could match SJP!  I am so angry and so FKED off with this and so cant be bothered to let this take over my life again… I want so much to believe that justice rules and all that, but now with this CMV thing and this, I just don’t know anymore…
Oh I am so so so sorry for my rant and rave and me post……I am feeling very peeved off today and have just woken up in a bad mood. I wanted to get it down coz its kind of like therapy – but sorry that you girls are the ones to suffer my wrath!!!
xxx


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## vw22

Winegum, I love your posts. You help me catch up on everything! You have so much going on at the moment. I am so impressed with everything you have organised, you really are doing everything you can. Immune treatments alone can be very daunting...I hated it all. But you have really embraced it all. Best of luck with the the hysto and hope something good comes from it. Sorry Winegum I don't know how to interpret those results...I am wondering why I asked you about that now? Will have another think...


Kat...happy holidaying. I hope you have a good break. Its going to be weird without you!


Pinkpixie you also have so much going on. I really hope you get the call you need to move forward. At least you know what you want so can be direct in what you ask fro from all these people. Knowledge is everything!


Wobs... At least your posts are longer than mine!


JBox. You really don't need this stress at the moment. I am so sorry the CMV is a worry. I have no idea what it is but I am sure you are feeling what any person would be feeling. There are so many hurdles to jump even when you get to your stage. Be persistent with the doctors and get all the help you need to make you feel confident and calm. 


As for the family issue. What a nightmare. I know there are tow sides to every story but you sound like you are being honest and fair and she sounds like a complete and utter disaster. Surely the courts are going to recognise the situation for what it is. It sounds so obvious that she doesn't deserve anything more from your husband. I really feel for you but can only hope that good will win over evil?!!!


Hi to everyone else. Got to rush off to a meeting...vx


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## billabong

Hello everyone!

I have not been on here for a while as I have had loads on and felt I needed a little break from the whole thing.
I will do personals soon, I have however been thinking of you all! I will sit with a nice cup of tea this evening and have some time to read and catch up.

I have had the scratch a couple of weeks ago (complete nightmare as I booked to go away Friday for the weekend and that is when I should have had the scratch done) Well the clinic said that it was ok to have it done a couple of days later as I have a longer cycle. My Dh had the sperm DNA test done and sadly it came back with quite a high number   The doctors have not really said anything about it and have let us carry on with our plans to start TX on my next cycle. I have had a little look on the net and it doesn't look good at all. All this time we have got so close and every test we have had has come back ok. Having these results back means that it could be a big factor into why we have had implantation problems   
I feel quite numb at the moment and guess I am just going to wait to have this next go and take it from there.
Sorry that this is a ME post but it may be of some use for anyone having implantation problems. The clinic never thought my Dh should test as we have had no fertilisation problems in the past and so they thought we should be ok. 
I guess at least we have kind of identified the problem but as far as I know there is nothing you can do to help the problem besides extracting the sperm directly, which may give us a better chance. But you can't test the DNA of the sperm that fertilises the egg...so it is just going to be game of chance.
On top of all this bag of fun I have had a few fall outs with family (they don't know I am having treatment) but one of the nasty comments I had was "You are jealous and we all know you can't have children" I am so glad I have never shared my Tx if this is how cruel some people can be. 
Sorry for this negative post, I will cheer up and be positive again...

Well my AF is due on Friday so I am just waiting then it's back on the rollercoaster!!!!!!!!

Big hugs to you all xxxx


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## jamaicababytrying

Hi Ladies

Well this is a very quick post, migraine finally left me   only to be faced with really bad stomach pains   unexplained pains! anyway not gonna go there as i think it is all stress related...

So my father-in-law has accepted our offer to come live with us! Can you imagine   anyway i am not sure how I feel at the moment I just know things will change and hopefully not for the worse... so it could be as soon as the end of this month... oh ladies I have such mixed feelings, you know if he were all together here I would say ok but he has some issues and i am not sure i can manage it... but he is my husband's father and if one of my parents were to come live with us I would hate to think my husband would have negative thoughts   Only thing is my mother is up and about, active and full of life... unfortunately my father is deceased... Just wanted to get this out, didn't sleep well at all last night hopefully my trip will do me some good!


As for the wii fit.. it is very low impact, it can be fun  and it can make you break a sweat if you do it long enough. My only dislike is that I get tired of things easily and now I am tired of it so you just have to keep getting new cartiges... but it helps, it helps you get back into exercise and feel active... there are good workout ones that really work you but if you just need to be active it is fine, it has yoga, balancing exercises, fitness exercises.. i would recommend it... hope it helps...


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## waikiki

Hi Billabong,

I am sorry to hear about DH's test results.     I seem to remember reading that DNA fragmentation can be significantly improved with antioxidant treatment over a period of a few months.  I'm sorry if this is something that you already know about, but thought I'd mention it just in case.  

 waikiki


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## jamaicababytrying

Why is everyone so quiet?   having a rough week, u ladies always seem to cheer to me up   believe it or not   

Checked my pressure yesterday it was sky high     why can't things just go right for a change? lapsed on my exercise last week but started back so i have to keep it up as it is very good with keeping your pressure down... 

Anyway hope all is well.. Han u ok hon?


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## vw22

Billabong, I think Waikiki is right that you can alter the fragmentation with supplements etc. And yes tese means you can retrieve the sperm earlier in the process so you get them before they deteriorate. Its still a whole lot of worry I admit though. Sorry I don't know more...


JBT you are usually the one pulling everyones socks up and cheering us up!!! I really admire you for embracing your family changes, I think it would freak me out! But like you say if the shoe was on the other foot you would want your DH to be the same. Can't remember about your trip..are you going away? sounds good to clear you mind...but I still think you are pretty good at being logical and know you will work things out in a way that you feel comfortable with..


vx


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## kitten77

hi everyone, 

i havent been on here (but still reading) as i too am having a rough time, so me coming on here isnt gonna cheer anyone up im afraid!!!

JBT - i too think you have embraced the whole dad coming to live with you well, will be a shake up but like you are saying hopefuly a postive one....    but whats up babe?  why you so down?  lapsing on the fitness is ok, dont beat yourself up about that, sometimes you just cant be bothered and if thats the case then so be it, its not the end of the world and like you said your back on it now anyway!

sorry everyone no more personals - just dont have the get up and go. 

sorry to moan, but work is getting me down and to be hoenst, i feel that my life hasnt any purpose.  i get up, go to work, come home, go to bed, get up, go to work....you get the picture. i have no purpose in life at all, seem to be working a sh1t job to get sh1t money to try to live and then save a bit to have a tx which never works....then start again.  no purpose and nothing to look forward to.  so sorry for the moan....just i could cry.


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## Mrs Rock

Oh Kitten honey  big big     .  Wish I could make you feel better.


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## kitten77

thanks Mrs R - means alot. 

just cant seem to pick myself up and the fact that im turning into a nasty bitter twisted women isnt helping.


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## vw22

Kitten, you sound so miserable. I really want to give you a big big hug. These feelings come in waves I am sure and you are just not feeling great at the moment. Could you just break the routine for a moment and have a chance to breathe a little? Take a day off sick and just do something completely different. I know it won't fix anything but maybe stopping the routine of it all could help you see through it all. Get it all out on here if it helps... vx


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## pinkpixie

JBT hope it all works out with the father in law    its so hard to stay motivated with exercise and diet when you are having a rough time.

Kitten just wanted to send you lots of    i like VW advice try and take some time for yourself.  I know what you mean constantly feel that i am stuck on a path which is get up work horse tea bed.  Cant really offer much advice just that we are here for you if you need to vent.

Jbox hope it all works out with your step daughter the legal system can be so wrong sometimes.

i am also on a downer one of my cats has disappeared havent seen him since sunday am absolutley worried sick hate not knowing where he is and his brother is wondering round the house crying for him   
xx
h


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## Winegum

Quick one from me, a chaser to a more substantial post later.  Kitten, that is exactly how I feel.  I sometimes get very low  and teary because I can't imagine my life ever being spontaneous or not exactly as you described ever again.  Like the others I can't offer any help, only sympathy.  Big hugs coming your way


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## JBox

Oh big big big hugs to all of u feeling so down! I know exactly where ur all coming from. We need to make a date to meet somewhere in the middle of us all - somewhere cool fun and luxurious!!!!


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## waikiki

Big hugs kitten, I know how hard it can be to find a purpose sometimes too.  DH and I have taken this week off work and tbh it couldn't have come at a better time for me after the few weeks I've had.  We haven't planned anything for our time off, so far have just been mooching about at home but am already feeling much better.  On Sunday all I did was sit in the garden and read the Sunday paper from cover to cover - it was bliss.  Sometimes a little bit of time out can do wonders, is there any chance you could take a few days off just to recharge those batteries?

    to you hun.

 waikiki


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## jamaicababytrying

Oh Kitten     I KNOW exactly how you feel... you said the right things, I too feel I have no purpose... A #@*^$ job, crap pay and no satisfatction... I am trying to pull myself out of this funk but it is soooooo hard... I am going to see a career counsellor hopefully she can help, she is also someone I have spoken to about my fertility issues so she knows how vulnerable I am... One thing Kitten IF really does play on our confidence level and I don't have any answers or advise but I do know that once you have lost confidence and are in a dead end job it's hard to pull out... Anyway thanks for the post, even though you are feeling down we like to hear from you....

Thanks ladies re my taking in FIL... I have been so stressed these past few days... my husband says I must not make it stress me, we have started to make some adjustments to the house so things are moving along... on the bright side it'll be like having a child   no more spontaneous trips and additional mouth to feed  

I am at least looking forward to seeing my sister on the weekend and then my mom is coming up too and all my nieces and nephews and my step son will be with us... so although we don't really have a close relationship my husband will be able to spend time with his son... I cannot also asdd selfish to the list of my growing traits can I?   

Han where are u girl I hope you are feeling well... Hope Kat is having a good time too... Meeting in an exotic place sounds like a great plan... Jamaica is always good! but all u ladies live in exciting places too


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## kitten77

oh my VB - i love you all so much, thank you for all your hugs etc, it means the world to me, and unfortunatly to know that i am not alone in my feelings, im sorry to all if you are feeling like me, its not good. JBT - maybe i should look into seeing a career counsellor.....maybe that is what i need!!!! some focus as work is a major part in your life and should be something you enjoy at least! 

me and DH have a long weekend planned at the end of this month so really looking forward to that - so least that is something to keep me focused. 

as in the taking a break, impossible at the moment with all the work to do here. 

PinkP  - sorry to hear abotu your cat!!! i would hate it if my furbabies went missing, so feel your anxiety - have you heard from him yet? 

as for meeting up! im there haha, finding somewhere in the middle of us all is going to be geographical nitemare!!


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## jamaicababytrying

Kitten that's great news... i hope you have a fab long weekend when it comes... it's always nice to look forward to something huh! Re career councellor girl nothing tried nothing gained... and as you said your job is a very big part of your life and you must be happy doing it... right now I am NOT!!!    Good luck, I'll let you know what my councellor says maybe it'll help u sort out your feelings


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## pinkpixie

my cat has decided to come home    have given him lots of cuddles and a telling off


----------



## waikiki

Glad to hear it pixie! If he's anything like mine, he sauntered into the house and then gave you a look as if to say 'what? why are you looking so worried?!'


----------



## Han72

Hi Barbies

Sorry I've been AWOL there's been a fair few things going on lately so not been quite as active as normal

Just wanted to send  to all who need them and add

Kitten the others have said it already but you're not alone

JBT - mi deh bout! That's tough re FIL but what can you do? And its easy to say don't let it stress you out but its a stressful situation dammit! With any luck the counsellor will give you some ideas career-wise that will help on that front at least. In the meantime...  Easy nuh gyal! 

BB - my DH has high DNA frag levels and as the others have said, the tx is supplements, I hear Wellman is good, intend to stock up myself when I'm in Blighty.

Um... I can't read back cos I'm on the crackberry and can't read back now I've reached perso capacity, huge apologies to everyone I've missed 

AFM its been a stressful last 7 days but am hoping things are going to start looking up now!

Xxx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Han big up my girl, glad to hear u! hope u work thru your stress, remember we are here if you need us 

Tired now and i haven't started packing, brought home work and i can't get through it   Did i mention our flight is 6:00 a.m. Saturday morning, means getting to the airport at 4 a.m. leave home by 3:45 a.m. damn.. check in with u tomorrow!!!

   to all


----------



## Mrs Rock

Wow JBT that is an early start! Thanks for the info about the wii fit. I think I am going to try it. I would like nothing better than to be able to swim lengths for an hour 5 times a week the way I used to before I had my operation but that's out of the question for me now so I need to do something to keep myself motivated to do the things I _can_ still do. BTW I really admire you for taking in your FIL.

Winegum what a fantastic post! Feel a bit inadequate with my short ones  . Thank you for saying such lovely things  . Yes I do think it'll be a Helen and Jim final, but she messed up a bit last night didn't she! Shame as I thought she was great, I like to see the women do well.

Pink Pixie yay for your cat being home. I guess he was just waiting for you to tell us all about it on here so he had your full attention before sauntering in  .

Han I hope you are ok - what's the stress about? And what language are you and JBT speaking, I feel left out 

Waikiki your week off sounds bliss, very restorative. I am a bit knackered and we have booked a cottage in Suffolk for the week after next. I cannot wait for a week off work and nothing to do except eat nice food, read books, go for gentle walks and chill out with my DH for a week.

Kitten I agree with VW's advice about taking a day or so off. You really sound like you need it. I know that feeling of just being at the end of your tether. Somettimes something has to give if only for a short time whilst you give yourself some TLC, then you can carry on. Maybe try and read that book, Conquering Infertility, it gives some basic advice on how to deal with feeling stuck in the IF rut. There's no magic answer but it helped me a little bit when I read it.

Billabong good to hear from you. I'm sorry about your DH's results. And about what that family member said to you, that is bl**dy well unforgiveable. It is them who sounds like the bitter person to me!

JBox what an awful situation with your step daughter. Families are so complicated, mine included. I haven't seen my parents in over a year, they are 200 miles away and it's hard for me to travel cos of the chronic pain and they never bother coming to see me  ! How are you feeling now about the donor issue, has anyting changed for you?

Wobs my garden is weed central too, I keep looking out at it and then not doing anything about it! Clover seems to love my garden it is everywhere.

Well I finally went to my GP today. Will be 9 weeks (  ) on Saturday. I still didn't want to go and tell her and tempt fate but I need to get the nuchal scan organised as early as poss. It's because I take a drug called pregabalin for pain and it increases the risk of spina bifida  . Just one more thing to add to the list of worries which wake me up in the small hours of every morning! And that's all from me on the subject!! But say if you'd rather not hear it, I do totally get that.


----------



## Mrs Rock

Ohhhhh, have I silenced you all....


----------



## kitten77

not at all mrs r - im just off to my sil's now so cant post, just wanted to come on here and say hello to everyone. xxxxxxxx


----------



## kitten77

why is that tini tiny writing......?


----------



## vw22

Oh Mrs Rock I knew you would think that! But weekends on here are always quiet!!! I have just been too hectic in the world of america and surrogacy that my brain has melted. Your news that so far everything ok is too wonderful for words!!!


Hello tiny kitten...have a good one!


Will come back when I have something decent to say and proper VB time...


And please be careful with any apprentice info...I am always an episode behind, the person I think is going to win probably isn't even in it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


vx


----------



## Han72

Kitten: cos you're whispering so your sil doesn't hear!

xxx


----------



## JBox

Are u gals having a nice weekend? So bloomin hot here can't bear it have spent most of today in the aircon! Don't know which is worse staying indoors coz of the rain or the heat?
No news my end - just checking in xxxx


----------



## Winegum

Hello everyone

*Nordickat and Wobs: *You are right, why do I exclude myself from the long hours pep talk just because I am self-emloyed? It's like I have accepted that I must work like a slave just because I am my own boss.  Why do I push myself and not cut myself any slack?  I suppose partly it is because I know I will have to pick up any pieces if I drop my guard, but all the same, I must be easier on myself.  

*Nordickat: *I hope you are finding the mountains a tonic and big enough to feel less lonely in. I understand what you mean about needing to be alone to feel less lonely. Is it because when you are with other people, at work or whatever, and they know nothing of the turmoil going round in your head, and they seem as if they suffer no such turmoil, you feel lonely and vulnerable, but when you are on your own, in your own head you feel more easily comforted?  I don't know. Your raydar is very fine tuned - yes, I am feeling low,  yes I am feeling overwhelmed  and a bit like what has happened to you, the situation that I have not been confronting due to being so busy with other things has come up and bitten me on the bum,  and the other things that I have been busy with have exhausted me. My immune tx is coming to an end and I have to face cycling again and I have to face my dh being devastated by a BFN again.  Funny, cause I was feeling quite upbeat the other day, like maybe it could be my turn, but my fingers are slipping from the edge that I have been clinging onto and I have lost all perspective and strength, resilience and determination. I have asked dh for a talk this weekend. And, I am taking time for me and doing absolutely no work of any description and not feeling in the least bit guilty about it.  

*Pinkpixie:* It's not awful to feel desperate to move on - that is what my current and recurring crises are all about. I like to blame my dh for "making" me do this and therefore having the power to set me free by suggesting we stop, but we all know it's not as simple as that. Have you heard from your PCT? You asked about the immune tx - I hope you get an opportunity to have it done at Care. If not, you could certainly see Dr G alongside your clinic. That's what most ladies do, because 50% or more of what he prescribes/suggests is getting your immune system balanced before a tx cycle. He is good and nice, but like many doctors, can seem a bit abrupt at times and forgets to say hello and goodbye and things like that. It is scary but I can't worry too much about it - I have resolved to just do as I am told and hand over my credit card. Judging by the clinic thread, he tailors things very much to your overall test results and that seems to be his speciality. He treats individual things, never forgetting the bigger picture that those individual things make up. I breathed a sigh of relief when I saw your cat had come home. 

*Wobs:* Only 2 more weeks!? Or maybe 1?  God, I bet you can't wait to have some lovely long sleeps and forget about it all. The falling asleep in 10 minutes is very frustrating, as for the garden....If I didn't have IF to deal with I would deal with the garden. It's similar in many ways - you have to keep trying different things before you get the result you want, you have to learn a whole new language, it is intimidating and scary not to mention the people who know all about ti (garden centres...hate them), you need loads of expensive equipment, there is no guarantee anything you do is going to work, things look lovely one minute and then bleak the next, dh does the easy bit (mowing the lawn) and if you neglect it, it just hangs around until you do something about it and round we go again.  

*JBox:* You need to stop being so hard on yourself honey, but you have articulated your fears well and I can understand what you mean because I dare say I would feel the same. However, if you look at it like this - you need sperm, egg and a perfect environment to grow a baby, you have provided a vital part.  I hope as your pregnancy progresses you will feel more settled about it. Your situation with dh's ex sounds positively awful and I know with legal things, they do not always follow the way of natural justice so it's just not possible or practical to hope the judge sees through her. It must be so horrible having this hanging over your heads, and unbelievably stressful for you all. I know these things don't get resolved quickly either but I hope it all goes your way in the end. 

*vw22:* Just to keep us up to date...are you definitely pursuing the surrogacy route? How long does it take? (and don't say 9 months!)  Let's wait until you have seen the final before we start discussing The Apprentice then, but you must have seen the biscuit episode by now? 

*Billabong:* Three you are! Welcome back. I'm so sorry to hear that someone in your family has made extremely hurtful comments. Can you imagine saying anything so cruel to anyone??  I'm speechless. Not for long admitedly,  but I really don't know what to say, probably because I could say an awful lot and just don't know where to start. I hope your dh is able to treat the dna frag. I wonder why your docs are reluctant? Maybe it is because you have got to blasts in the past. I have read somewhere on here in some research done by an FF that the sperm's bit really starts to kick in at about day 3. That would explain a lot about our failures and I am interested to see what my dh's dna frag is. How do the results come? Is it a % and if so, what are the ranges? 

*jbt:* Are you in the USA this weekend having a lovely family time? Hope you are OK. Stop being hard on yourself about the exercise. 

*Waikiki:* Hope you have had a blissful week off just mooching around at home. 

*Han:* Translation of the patois (?) please! Hope you have had a less stressful week. I see your dh has had the frag test - can you chip in with anything?

*Mrs Rock:* As if.....have you got the scan sorted? Hope so. What about sleep? Still struggling? Have you started to tell people yet? 

BTW, to all the ladies chattering about wii fit etc, don't worry about it - you aren't supposed to do too much exercise in the run up (and that could conceivably be about a year) to tx. You are officially off the hook.  I bought "conquering infertility" and started reading it and kept thinking "yes yes yes" - it's very sympathetic and knows how you feel like FF does, but I haven't finished it as most of the case studies seem to be of ladies trying for maximum 3 years, so it seems to be aimed at newbie barbies, I think they need to write a sequel for us VBs.  I have been pondering a fantasy meet-up - what do you think? What would we do? If we did it in Northern Europe I imagine us in a suite, OK, more realistically, an apartment, in our pyjamas, pampering each other, drinking sparkling wine, playing games and having FUN and LAUGHING - Ooo sounds a bit close to a male fantasy, didn't mean that - we won't be having pillow fights.  If we did it in the Caribean or Southern Europe, we would be in a villa with a pool and we would sit out under the stars and chat all night and tell stories. Any other ideas?

I am struggling at the moment. Like many of you I am struggling with my job, and the fact that I have remained in it so long. I have never particularly enjoyed what I do, which is why I have decided during the past few days that it would be wrong to expand the business and keep doing it. I don't want to be a restaurant owner. I don't want to manage staff. I don't want to work with the public. I don't want to work with my husband anymore. When we started trying I saw pregnancy as my escape route, but it never came. Lots of people tell me I would be mad to give up being my own boss and they prize that highly. I have never worked in the UK and am curious about working for someone else, but wouldn't know where to start. I thought in the past that I couldn't contemplate coming out of the business and going into employment due to tx. One good thing about being your own boss is that no one needs to know. But the main thing is that I am still here, going round and round in circles, searching for the route that will take me to the next phase. Do I find a new job and hope pregnancy follows, or do I wait for pregnancy and then get a new job after that? Please someone, tap me on the shoulder and tell me that I am just what your company is looking for! For the past 6 months I have thought that the answer was expanding the business, but it's not. I just keep coming up against brick walls. I am so saddened that I do not have any fun or laugh. I am saddened that when I see young families together I look away. I am saddened that the bitterness and jealousy, after being kept at bay for such a long time, is starting to engulf me. I am saddened that for yet another saturday evening I am sitting at my pc and my dh is sitting across the room from me on his laptop. We will do nothing special, we will barely remember or acknowledge our 14th wedding anniversary on Tuesday. Yes, it is within my power to change all that, it is up to me, but I just can't, I need someone to do it for me, I just haven't got the energy. On a positive note, my hysterography the other day showed nothing at all untoward which is encouraging. But I know the experince of doing that has made me sad and unsettled as well. Still not tempted to raid the sweeties, but could have downed a large glass of wine tonight and if I'd had a bottle in the house I think I would have opened it. 

Love to you all
Winegum x


----------



## Han72

Hello again

Winegum hon I'm sorry to say I'm really quite drunk right now after a boozy family dinner but wanted to send you massive    I would love to say something useful but I'm incapable right now  Just didn't want to leave you hanging 

Yes DH had DNA frag thingie done, the results were borderline and I too have heard that its the sperm which dictates embie development past the 4 cell stage so if you rarely get to blast its just as likely due to dodgy sperm as any probs with the eggs, but apparently dna frag probs can be fixed with supplements. 

Kitten I keep forgetting to pm you!  its not deliberate honest!

For those who asked JBT is talking real patois, whereas I'm a Ja-fake-an as I was born and brought up in the Home Counties  but she's kind enough to humour me   
I think that's quite enough drunken rambling from me! Hope you're all having a nice weekend and I'll catch up properly once the hangover's worn off 

Love to all!

Xxx


----------



## waikiki

Hi everyone,

Sorry that I haven't got time for many personals, as I'm just on my way out.  But couldn't leave without sending massive     to Winegum.  I'm sad to hear that you are so low at the moment hun and understand exactly what you say about pregnancy being the planned escape route to an unfulfilling job.  I didn't realise how much I hated my old job until my first IVF failed, then when I realised that I wouldn't be skipping off on maternity leave in a few months time, I found that I could barely drag myself out of bed and into the office each morning.  I freelanced part time for a while, which gave me the flexibility to work around a few more IVF cycles but also found that didn't suit me.  Eventually an opportunity came along to work in a new company set up by an ex colleague of mine, and now 2 years on I can say that I still love it there.  

Finding the right job is such an important thing and can make a huge difference to your overall well-being, so if your current situation is making you unhappy, then you are doing the right thing considering your options now.  I would definitely say do that now rather than wait until you have had further tx.  I put my life on hold for years, not planning anything because 'I'd probably be pregnant in a few months time...'    I got to a point where I couldn't live that way anymore and decided that I am going to live my life as if I will never have a baby...making that decision was pretty scary, and still sometimes when I stop to think about it like that, it makes me cry.  But that way if I do one day manage to get pg, then I will deal with that when/if it comes.  At least I won't have wasted time in the meantime doing things that make me unhappy or unfulfilled, and at least any adjustments I will have to make will be for a happy and positive reason for a change!

I'm not going to pretend that having a good job makes everything better, of course it doesn't.  There are still days where one of the women at work has been banging on about the wonders of motherhood (one of her very favourite conversation topics!) that I come home from work and cry.  And even if I've had a fantastic day at work, it doesn't cancel out the pain of IF, it just gives me one less thing to be sad/angry/depressed about, if that makes sense.

The funny thing is that a lot of people around me who know nothing of my IF have by now assumed that I am a 'career type' who obviously doesn't want children.  This could not be further from the truth - as much as I love my job, I'd give it up in a heartbeat to be a stay at home mum.  It's only through my counselling that I have realised just how early on I was making life choices based on the fact that one day I would be a mother....back in my late teens I was evaluating university courses in terms of whether they would lead to mummy-friendly careers.  

Anyway, enough of my rambling, I hope that I have said something useful for you Winegum.  And here's another  .

 waikiki


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## JBox

Winegum, I'm on the crackberry so no icons but I'm sending u a huge hug. Your post touched a nerve I think with most of us here. All I can say is hugs hugs hugs.
Will come back later running now xx


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## pinkpixie

Winegum     what you say strikes such a chord with me and prob most of the ladies on here.  I think what Wakki says is so true you end up putting your life on hold so much for this process you cant keep on doing it you spend so much time at work it makes things easier if you enjoy it or at least dont actively hate it!!!
Would love for us to have a meet up!!


Han have you a hangover today??  


Hi to everyone else
xx
h


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## pinkpixie

it has gone very quiet on here is it something i said  

hope evryone is ok
xx
h


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## kitten77

hello everyone! 

im still around but havent got anything to say to be honest.  still feeling pretty poop.

oh but my consultant has called me in for a 'meeting review' tomorrow, as my GP sent him a letter about my abdominal pains and the fact i have never had that op thing for endo.  but pretty weird to be called into review!!  so pretty nevious about it, im worried that we have annoyed him and that he is gonna have a go at me.....for what i dont know, maybe going behind his back to say that i have never had the op thing. (i feel like a kid going to see the headmaster!)

works pretty poop to.

winegum - the whole putting your life on hold thing, been there done it, got the t-shirt,hat and mug. i dont do it now, i go for anything i wanna do (which isnt alot at the moment) and if our dream happens to come along....deal with it then. im fed up of not doing stuff, or not planning stuff just in case......


----------



## vw22

I am so sorry not to be posting. Having a nightmare two weeks. Girls keep trying whatever you can to have your babies...the surrogacy world sucks. Back soon vx


----------



## Winegum

vw sorry you're having a tough time too.  Thanks everyone for your advice.  I'll be back later in the week with comments analysis and updates . Until then I have decided to follow your examples and just do what I want to do.....now I need to figure out what that is!
Love to you all xxx


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## waikiki

Morning everyone!

VW - sending you lots of    , sorry that things are tough at the moment.  Although none of us are going through what you are yet, we're here to help in any way that we can.   

Winegum - yay, go for it girl!!  


Kitten - I hear what you're saying about getting the t-shirt and the mug.  Maybe if we ever have a meet up, we can all wear our matching 'IF sucks' t-shirts...just a thought.  

AFM today is my 35th birthday, so statistically speaking my fertility should start declining from here....ha ha ha ha ha, oh the irony!  Unfortunately my body got the memo a lot earlier than it should have and my ovaries have been shot for at least 6 years now.  So not really feeling too bad about it really, other than the fact that I have now slipped 5 years from my 'have a baby by 30' plan...ho hum, no use dwelling on it I suppose.  

Hope that all of you lovely ladies are keeping your chins up. 

 waikiki


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## Mrs Rock

Waikiki     , no one likes the getting older but I hope you have a lovely day. Get any nice pressies?  You will always be nearly 3 years younger than me chicken!!


----------



## kitten77

HAPPY BIRTHDAY WAIKIKI

hahaha, yep hit the 35 mark, i got told when i first started out with tx that i was too young!!!! now i will be getting told im too old!!


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## vw22

Oh Happy Birthday Missy, just had to pop on and say that!
A 50 year old lady I met yesterday told me how she went into menopause at 29 and her friend offered to donate her eggs quickly to help her out. The friend went into hospital and they gave her a hysterectomy instead by mistake!!!!!!!!
Not sure why I mentioned that, but sometimes stories like that make me think, maybe I am not so unlucky after all?!!!
vx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

lady, hope you have a great day... 

I am in the US at the moment so just coming on to say hi... will post better when i get back home Sunday night... went to see the career counsellor  before i left so will report on that too... being around these kids really is tough, just knowing i may never mold a young life and I have missed out so much of theirs already... my stepson is also with us and that too is hard but i am making the most of it... I am trying to keep my distance and not be the "mother" as that always causes problems  

Well we are off shopping today, my mom and other niece and nephew arrive tonight so we have busy day and the next couple of days... 

Have a great week ladies i will pop back on when i get a chance... i won't ***** about how i have been feeling because i know i need to just get over it!


----------



## JBox

sorry for the belated birthday wishes, but hope you had a lovely day Waikiki and that you were thoroughly spoiled... you are so young!!! 35! i am coming up to my 40th ( next month - am totally in denial- dh wants to throw a huge F.O party but i cant face it!!!!!!!!!). 

JBT  hope you have a fantastic time with your mum and family, you lucky thing.....

VW, sorry the surrogate road is such a minefield. i hope that you are dealing ok.... 

Pixie, winegum, kitten, mrs rock, han, nordicat, wobs, billabong, big hello to you all. hope all is ok in your worlds.... 

x


----------



## kitten77

hi everyone.

JBT - hope your having a ok time, look forward to your updates when your back. 

Waikiki - how your brithdya go? what you get up to? 

AFM - well i gotta call from the cons to go in and see him as my GP had written to him, and turns out im having a laprospcopy not looking forward to that, but to be honest, wanna make sure every avenue gone down. so gotta wait for that now.....and not getting any younger!!!! private medical wont pay as they say it is for fertility, when it is in fact cuz of my tummy troubles, but oh well.


----------



## vw22

Kitten so sorry you have to have that but hopefully it will sort a lot out for you. You are such a youngster you have time to do it and recover before anything else... another thing ticked off!
vx


----------



## kitten77

hi everyone.

right this is a me me me post im afraid.  

right...... my af is late.....and silly me took a test this morning and of course its negative, but then i think it was a test, it looked like a ovulation test, but it was in my bag of needles from the clinic and there would be no reason for a ovulation test to be in there (kidding myself i think) - but it was a slap in the face no again.

anyway, im not really having af pains like i usually do, or (TMI if you dont wanna read on....) that when af is coming then i feel 'open' if you know what i mean, in my enterance but nothing, all closed up. im a day 28 girl and its day 32 today, but i usually bleed 14 days after ovulation, i ovulatied this month on days 15 and 16, so going on that should have started.  

we done the jiggy 3-4 times a day on days of ovualation to try to get enough in there.....first month of trying this..... so now im in limbo, if i was pregnant then the test would ahve shown up wouldnt it? nothing, zip, zarda, nought. 

just wanted to tell someone, didnt tell someone before as didnt wnat to jinx it, but now im not preggers and still no af!!!!! this is VERY abnormal for me. even having isci my afs were dead on time, never been late.


----------



## kitten77

ignore my last message - slight pink on way so yep af is finally here.  knew telling somoene and taking a test would make it appear.


----------



## pinkpixie

Kitten huge   our bodies are cruel to us sometimes if it was me i would have to buy another test and test again just to be sure.

Waikik happy belated birthdday hope you had a lovely one

Jbox how are things with you any news

winegum glad to hear you are going to take the advice   

JBT hope america is going ok

hi to everyone else sorry for short post but at work


----------



## pinkpixie

kitten sorrry our posts must have crossed


----------



## JBox

OH kitten I am praying and hoping that you might just might be (dare I say it) pg... Fingers crossed for you darling. Give it another couple of days and do another test. These things just sometimes come to surprise us... Can yer imagine Oh dahling I really hope so...


----------



## vw22

kitten i got so excited on your first post. i think we all know how you feel an that its a horrible feeling to go through that 'maybe' moment and have all your hopes dashed. hope you are ok now. vx


----------



## kitten77

thanks for the hugs, the af pains are coming im afraid, will go to the loo in a mo to check.  went to the shop, thot about buying another pg test (to make sure it was an acutal test...) but i didnt. waste of money. 

ho hum....at least for once in my whole intire life i actually had a excitment feeling of am i arnt i....this is the first ever time i have experienced that ever.


----------



## pinkpixie

sorry this is going to be a depressing me post so feel free not to read!!


i thought i was dealing with things pretty well but am really worried about getting an answer from the health authority.  I just really dont know if it is worth having another go partly cos i dont know how we would deal with it if it didnt work i really dont know how much more either of us can take.  When we started out i was quite positive that it would work for us not necessairly straight away but quite quickly but i really cant ever see it working for us and perhaps me and dh are never meant to be parents.  I used to be able to imagine us having a child but that seems to have gone.  It just feels so unfair dont particuarly like myself at the moment am trying to loose weight but cant seem to stick at it get really fed up that me and dh are having to do the vitamins, no alchol or caffine etc to try and get pregnant yet others get pregnant straight away.  My bil has had a vasectomy yet his sperm are still getting through and he smokes and has done for years that feels sooo unfair.  Feel fat unattractive and useless me and dh dont feel like    anymore just cant seem to find the energy or inclination and that worries me.  
just dont know how long i can carry on feeling as though our life is in hold and feeling this way about myself but dont know how to accept that our dream could be over   .  Words can describe the utter despair i feel sometimes


sorry for the post
x
h


----------



## Winegum

*Pinkpixie:* I couldn't keep you waiting until the weekend, which is when I hope to post. When I posted similar stuff last weekend, I got some lovely replies which momentarily lifted my spirits. (Thanks ladies) I'm definitely not going to tell you to cheer up or anything like that but I am going to tell you that I know your pain and am in a similar place. At the moment I am struggling with the loss of the past 5.5 years and what it has done to me as a person, us as a couple and what I have missed out on. In the past I have been determined to get my moment in the delivery room, to see the look on my dh's face when he is handed our baby, but like you, I don't see it anymore. At the moment, I am determined to reclaim those years somehow. I want to feel alive. I'm worried about me and dh too because we are at different stages and I imagine that when we give up, I will embrace my "new life" and re-find myself and he will plunge into depression and never be the same again and we will go in different directions, and infertility will get us one way or the other. I have always thought up until now that our realtionship would get through it unscathed. It's incredibly difficult to feel sexy sometimes, but it's OK not too. Just make sure you get plenty of cuddles and foot rubs. I just want to give you a big hug and make you a hot chocolate and cry with you, and then watch something funny like Curb your Enthusiasm or Peep Show back to back. Anyone want to join us? 

*Kitten: *  Sorry you have been on a bit of a roller-coaster today honey. 

More for me later


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## vw22

Pink pixie. You are really not alone in your thinking. The doctor I first saw 4 years ago said girls give up for two reasons, they can't go on emotionally anymore of they can't financially. I think he is still right. There has to be a point when you say enough is enough but when? We have all been through so much to get to this point that we don't know how close we are to having want we want. Even though I am on the surro route I still keep thinking I am going to shock everyone and get pregnant. If you can bear to roll with the emotions at the moment, see if you can. There will be good days and bad days. On the bad days don't try to make big decisions or stop eating chocolate and on the good days, try to think logically about your plans ahead and do something good for yourself... You havn't got this far without being a strong person. So trust that when the time is right you will work it out...in the meantime just try and be nice to yourself, like you would be to your best friend... vx


----------



## waikiki

Winegum count me in, I love hot choccy and Peep Show.  

Thank you lovely ladies for all of your birthday wishes!  I had a nice day including a fantastic meal out and present-wise I added to my stockpile of John Lewis vouchers which will be used to buy furniture when we move house next month.    

Kitten - will send you a PM about your laparoscopy as I managed to get mine paid for by my private health care (although it involved quite a fight!)

It's so cr*p that so many of us are feeling low at the moment.  Like Winegum, I'm not going to tell any of you to cheer up because it isn't as easy as that and quite frankly I think that we can all feel as miserable as we like from time to time because we are all struggling with a monumentally difficult situation.

Pixie - I also feel fat and unattractive most of the time.  I have been promising myself for the past two years that I will lose the two stone I have put on over all of my IVF tx, but as soon as I start trying to eat well and exercise somebody else's pg announcement or insensitive comment plunges me back into the depression where I just don't feel like I have the strength to do anything constructive.  The first thing I do is reach for the sweets or chocolate and then end up feeling even worse about myself.  The weight gain combined with the fact that I don't feel like a 'real woman' any more has almost killed our sex life on occasions...  I've never told anyone this before but several times when I tried to instigate a bit of bedroom action, just to make DH feel like he is still loved, I was in tears by the end of it because all I could think of was the fact that for normal people, this is how babies are made.  For me it felt like I was going through the motions and I just felt empty.

Like Winegum I have been thinking a lot lately about how all of this has changed me as a person.  In the early days I didn't tell any friends about our IF because a) I was ashamed and b) I thought that I'd get pg quite quickly and would therefore never have to tell anyone else what we had been through.  Six years on there are still many of my friends who I haven't told about our IF, although I'm sure most of them have figured it out by now.  But I've got to thinking that maybe I should tell them because it's part of who I am now.  Even if I got pg tomorrow (yeah right!) I would still be this very different person from any other happy expectant mum.  

So step one on my 'make-myself-feel-better' plan is to try hard not to hide this part of me from my friends anymore.  IF is part of who I am - I may not like the way it makes me look or act but that is who I am at the moment.  If my friends are real friends they will accept this, if not then I cannot hide or apologise for who I am anymore.

Wow - just read that back and it sounds a lot more defiant than I feel.    I hope I can stick to this as I do think it will give me back a bit of self-respect.  From there maybe I'll be able to work on that diet and exercise plan.  

 waikiki


----------



## wobs

Hi everyone   
Sorry I've been awol.  Work has just been sooooooooooo busy.  Still only 8 days to go now!!! I can do it!!!!   

Sending lots of     to all you going through horrible times at the moment.  
WG - I think your job is a crucial part of feeling happy.  I made a decision to stay in mine a few months ago purely for financial reasons - which I have never done in the past - and it has made it much harder than I thought it would to enjoy it.  I am not money orientated particularly but if we are going to the ARGC we'll need all the cash we can find.  So I thought I would stay and that I would have a good reason for it- sadly it hasn't worked and I'll be looking to get out asap.  I have put off changing jobs for a very long time for IF but now is the time to move on.
VW - sorry that you're having a tough time re: surrogacy - can't begin to imagine the whole range of emotions you are feeling
Kitten - I've had 2 emergency laparoscopys - each time took about 2 weeks to feel ok enough to go back to work - but you are younger than me.  And thankfully for me didn't really feel in pain afterwards, just discomfort - no need for painkillers etc... 2nd time it was more like 4 weeks but sadly that was cos i'd had things removed    Thik it would be less time if you were just having things checked?
Waikiki - I'm with you in being open with friends and family too - we too kept it quiet but now most friends know.  It does make it easier and usually they are more sensitive about things.  Happy belated birthday you spring chicken yoU!
hi Pink Pixie, Mrs Rock, Han, Kat, Billabong and anyone else I've forgotten
Off to do some more work now!!!   
Roll on the summer hols
I really hope this week is more positive for you all.  take care everyone
Wobs


----------



## Nordickat

to you all, it seems everyone needs a hug right now.
 Katxxx


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## pinkpixie

thank you everyone for your kind words and   back to everyone else


I think i will feel a bit better once we have an answer from our PCT as we can make plans then one way or another i hate being in limbo.  Have finally made a huge decision it isnt fertility related but have finally given notice at my yard and will be moving my pony to his new place in august have been driving DH mad about it week trying to decide what to do in fact it is now a banned topic in our house   .  Am just hoping i have made the right decision.


Kat did you have a nice hol??


Wobs not long till the summer hols now


winegum i love hot choc and have made some muffins and cookies today so we can have them with it!!!


VW what your doc said is very true i dont think many people have the emotional resources to keep going never mind the financial


Waikki i have done the opp to you and tell everyone about our IF but never ever reveal how much it hurts, will normally make a joke about it and say "oh we will be fine even if it doesnt happen we will just have a different life" i find it very hard to show my true feelings about stuff.  
I know what you mean about the healthy eating had done really well but after another few pregnancy announcements this week have gone backwards again.  PArt of me thinks with the sex to just leave it until it doesnt feel like going through the motions but then it really worries me that we would never start having sex again which i dont think would be healthy for our relationship.
Telling people about ur IF sounds like a really positive step for you and like you said if they are true friends even if they cant understand they will support you.


hi to everyone else and thanks again for all the support
xx
h


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## Nordickat

Forgive me for not doing deep meaningful personals to you all, it doesn´t mean I haven´t read your posts or that I don´t care, I´m just in self preservation mode right now. It may be selfish but I am going to step away for a wee while. I had a fab holiday, it started out hard but once I sorted my meds dose and forgot all things tx, I had a really great time and I really was genuinely happy. I do know this is my meds talking and I know I am just burying my head in the sand but sometimes we just need to take a break from ourselves I think. I can relate to all of your posts while I have been away and if I start to think about it and reply with my thoughts I know the cracks will appear and things will get tough again. So for now, its just me me me I´m afraid   

I have made some decisions, again I know its my antiDs that allow me to think this so I thought if I tell you all then when it all falls apart I can come back and remind myself that actually good days exist. I have 2 weeks of work and then another weeks holiday and then my shrink sessions start again so I have 3 weeks of time out where its OK to deny all and be happy   . I am even not so stressed about that fact that half my tooth fell out last week or that I have either popped my pelvis out again or popped my prolapse again. Neither was I upset when my least fav consultant sent me a letter saying that maybe I could try prednisolone next time (did that on the last 4 anyway) and up my stim dose to 133 (as it was before) ...... I guess she couldn´t be bothered to read my notes then   

So the decisions. I am going to work on my career change. I am going to become a horticultural therapist of some kind - the distance learning starts in september so I am aiming for 2012 start. I will do the course and then reduce my hours at work (if I was a mum I could work part time and I will play that card big time if they give me any grief over it) while I build up my own business. I doubt I would ever do it full time as I can´t imagine stepping away from science completely so it will be kind of a hobby self employed rather than make my fortune. We will have our final DIVF in december (so we can go to the Brazilian rainforest in november for work .......... work ish anyway   ) and then stop. It would be my last own eggs try anyway so we are going to try and move on and see how we feel in after a year and reassess egg donation, surrogacy, adoption again etc. Next year we are snowboarding in the US and then another trip there to Yellowstone and then we are doing the Offa´s **** hike next year. We are sorting out the gear we need (we both lovce shopping for fancy ourdoor gear - give me marino wool over a hanbag any day lol) for it and going some trial trips before then so I´m not sure we would have time for tx anyway   . This has all come about because DH wants his life back and his wife back and so do I. We are going to live child free and not childless, there is a big difference for me I think. Obviously it all might fall apart as soon as I get to work tomorrow (its my birthday and I hate my birthday anyway without the addition of post holiday blues), but today I am happy   .

h - moving your pony sounds a good move and maybe the change of scenery will rejuvinate him little. As for the sex thing, I might as well be a nun   . You are right though that it gets to a stage where you just stop and its never mentioned and I agree its not healthy. I can´t advise though as I am a bit worried we have left it too long already. Ho hum, at least we don´t get stupidly optimistic when af is late ....... its just late. I hope you work it out though before you get my our stage.

Winegum - good for you for taking some you time and   , I´m sorry you are having a hard time with everything. Can we keep the fantasy meet somewhere a bit chilly for now so none of us have to reveal our post tx flab in our bikinis just yet?

vw - sorry the surrogacy is so hard. Have you found our donor yet?

JBox - I´ll catch up with you later this week if you have time but I hope things with DHs ex work out   

Han - I´ll catch up properly with you too but in the meantime I hope your sorted things out a bit and life is heading in a better direction for you.


MrsRock -   

wobs - of course you can do it. Just focus on that lovely long rest you´ll get.

Waikiki - I hope sharing that secret part of your life lifts you up and makes you feel strong again.

JBT - enjoy seeing your sister.

Kitten - life just sucks sometimes with its cruel teasing   

So bye bye for now. Look after yourselves while I´m away pretending to myself that the world is rosie   . Child free and not childless. 
 Katxxx


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## wobs

Wow Kat.  Well done you on getting stuff planned and organised.  That is exactly what I need to do!  You go girl


----------



## JBox

Kat, so great to hear from you... and glad you had a fab holiday, and all these plans... making me so jealous. sounds wonderful. one of the things that drove me mad over the past few years was the "life being on hold" and never ever being able to make any plans or arrangements - holidays were my biggest thing... so i am really pleased to hear you are putting yourselves first and fitting treatment around you and not the other way round. 
. 
everyone else - big big big big big         
this road is so long and bumpy and so not fun at all. i get all of your feelings re feeling unattractive, overweight, unsexy, sexless even!!! my dh is the most patient man in the world. even being on the "other side" for this short while doesnt make it any easier, and i still relate to you lot here more than anyone else and cant bring myself to venture out to any other threads....

we were in court yesteray wtih the madex, was an awful. awful awful experience, she turned on the tears, made out that we were filling her daughter with nonsense and wouldnt let her go and see her... complete rubbish, we try to get to her to go visit her mum but she doenst want to, she is scared of her, doenst like it coz every time she has seen her her mum starts screaming at her and telling her what an awful daughter she is....i was very stressed and upset when i left yesterday and it didnt do much for my confidence which is  quite low at the moment. 

anyway, all of you lovely women, hope you have a good monday with a good start to a good week. 

sending love


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## jamaicababytrying

Hey Ladies I am back home after a very stressful flight... missed our flight on our way home and then we didn't get one piece of our luggage  anyway had a good visit with sis and family!

Now Kat I am so envious that you have made these decisions, good for you... I need to do the same but I am afraid... I am however in the process of thinking it through so maybe I will be as brave as you and make some solid decisions
I am happy you had a good vacay, and good for you with the outdoor stuff, i am so not an outdoor person!   when it comes and have a good one please...

Han where r u? hope you are ok and things are looking up for you...

Kitten just wanted to send    

Right now i am so tired, I just wanted to come on and check in... will post a better one tomorrow night after I have rested and cleared my head.


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## pinkpixie

Kat  glad you had a good holiday and it sounds like you have made some good decisions that are right for you and DH.  Hope you are doing okxx


JBT that sounds like a stressful fight hope you are recovered


Jbox    is that it now or do you have to go back to court??


Han hope you are ok


Wobs have you broken up yet\


hi to everyone else


afm had a bit of a poo day woke up in a right downer got to work and ended up having to go to loos to have a good cry as least i can use the hayfever excuse for the red swollen eyes.  Managed to get out for a ride tonight whcih has cleared my head a bit.  Saw a friend last night whose daughter is pregant and she is so pleased and excited and it just breaks my heart that i will never get to see my mum like that.  Am off to see another friend tomorrow who is 8mths pregnant with her second so will see how i feel after that.
I think we need to keep planning our fantasy meet up we all sound like we could do with something good in our lives
xxx
h


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## JBox

Oh Pinkpixie, sending you a big      and hoping that today is a better day... i suppose it can only get better than that!

xxx


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## jamaicababytrying

hey ladies

All is so quiet... had such a sucky day at work today, i really need a new job! But that would mean delaying any further treatments but i am so unhappy... what do you do when work makes you unhappy, the absence of a family makes you unhappy and soon adding an inlaw to your household may just make you unhappy!

Anyway i hope everyone is doing well..

need to call the career councellor tomorrow to set up our follow up meeting.

Will keep you all posted... Kat & Han thinking of you guys...

 to everyone...


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## Nordickat

Blimey, what a week you are all having   

h - where do you fancy meeting this week? I fancy sun, as long as you are all happy to see my huge post tx @rse in a bikini, lets go get some sunshine somewhere   

Thinking of you all and I am doing just fine now so no need for me to stay away from the thread   
Katxxx


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## Winegum

Hi Ladies

Just wanted to come on and say a huge thank you to you all for your support and advice. It's clear I'm not the only one who needs to do something different work wise. *Nordickat*, *jbt*, I wonder where we will be this time next year?

*Han72: * I was well impressed with yourboozy under-the-influence post! How are you doing? 

*Waikiki: * Thank you for your lovely, heartfelt post. You imparted some really good advice and while I was heading in that direction already, I have actually articulated to myself that I am going to proceed as if I will never have a baby (I'm ashamed to say I am quite excited about the child-free life I have planned for myself  ) Though I would also love to be a SAH mum. I'm glad you had a good birthday. It's hard having an Infertility milestone birthday isn't it? Normal milestones end in a zero or five only but I also had one recently when I moved from 37 to 38. That very day my fertility decreased dramatically as I am now in the 38-40 age group! I was sad to read about your bedroom tears  IF just permeates every part of life doesn't it? I'm with you on the trying not to hide it anymore. I also used to feel ashamed and mortified by anyone knowing but as time has gone on I have let a lot of people know and I have almost got to the stage where I don't care who knows. The only thing is, because they can never understand just how painful it is, will they just think we are making a fuss about nothing? I don't think I care.

*Nordickat:* What on earth has happened in Norway?? The news has just come on. I do hope you and yours are OK. Please come on and tell us you are. It sounds absolutely awful. I hope your birthday was OK. I'm glad you had a good holiday and you obviously had a lot of good chats with dh and made some good solid decisions and plans. I hope you have the strength to see them through. I think it all sounds very good, and if you remind yourself how you were a few short weeks ago, you have turned things around.  One minute though, you want our fantasy meet in a wintry place citing unreadiness for donning a bikini, the next, somewhere sunny - can I wear my burkini in that case?  There is nothing I like more than curling up in front of an open fire, apart from maybe having sundowners overlooking the beach, so I'm up for anything. Anymore ideas about our fantasy meet up to keep me entertained anyone?

*JBox:* Sorry to hear your day in court was as horrendous as predicted. How are you doing? 

*Kitten: * T-shirt, hat and mug? I think we need a loyalty card as well  Are you managing to sort out your laproscopy? I hope so.

*vw22: * Any news from you? I hope you've had a better week.

*jbt:* Glad you had a good trip, but sorry work is pants and that you are generally so unhappy. Tell us about the careers counsellor - I think I need to se someone too, or maybe get some life coaching which focuses on career.

*wobs: * Yay, you made it! I hope the end of term was good and you got lots of lovely pressies. 

*pinkpixie:* I don't envy you having such a pregnancy related social life recently. I hope you are OK and have bounced back a bit.

Funny how this thread is either very busy or very quiet  I may not be on to post for a while as we have got a busy time coming up. This weekend we are off to London on Sunday night to have some blood tests done on Monday to see if the immune tx I have had has worked and also dh will have his sperm dna fragmantation test. Then we have an initial consultation at CRGH where we want to cycle next. Then dh's sister and niece are coming to see us from Turkey so we will be busy looking after them. The result of my hysteroscopy was that I have "a completely normal uterine cavity". We are still waiting on the karyotyping. I'm feeling a bit better and have started focusing on moving myself on jobs wise. I know it is likely to be a long term thing, but it feels good to be taking charge of something instead of just waiting for something to happen.

If anyone whose dh has had dna frag done and knows how to read and interpret the results, can you let me know?

Love to you all
Winegum xxx


----------



## wobs

Hi ladies

WG - I wish I had broken up , but still got three days next week!!!!  GRRRRRRR... Still nearly there I suppose!
Sounds like you have a busy time coming up - hope all goes well.
As you say who knows what jobs we will all be in this time next year.  I had another awful day - I just get back into the swing of things and then something happens again and I think what am I doing here being treated like this!!!    Sorry can't help on DNA frag - count nowhere near big enough   

JBT - let us know how you get on with the career counsellor- I seriously need to change careers! Hope you are feeling a little brighter today.  I find I have lots of ups and downs at the moment.  I think I am lucky in that I usually naturally look at the positives, but I feel sad with myself that recently I have definitely allowed myself to become a bit of a moaner and a winger - which then in term makes me feel rubbish.  So that will change - well hopefully!!!  

Hi Han, Kat (I second WG's post re: hope everyone ok), JBox, Mrs Rock, Kitten, VW, PinkPixie, Waikiki

Sorry for lack of personals to all
Hope everyone has a good weekend
take care
Wobs


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## Nordickat

we are ok. A sad sad day for norway though. We are a tiny nation and will all know someone who has lost someone. Puts life in perspective when 84 youngsters lose their life a few km from your door :-( 
You can rebuild a city but you cant get those kids back :-(


----------



## Winegum

Ahhh wobs, i knew there was someone else struggling with their job.  Can't believe you've still not finished.  What have you got planned for your first few days off?

Nordickat:  what a national tragedy in Norway, hope you and dh Ok?  I'm sure the ripple effect of this will be massive.  It's truly shocking.


Just seen your post.  Thanks x


----------



## billabong

Sorry I have not posted for a while, I have been trying to keep up with you all. I just don't seem to have enough ME time sometimes!
Well I will just give you an update of where I am.... We have just had our first ICSI. It went a lot better than our last IVF, thank God.
I had enough embies to go for Blastocysts but my clinic doesn't open on a Sunday so we did a day 3 transfer. Wasn't too happy about that. Feel so numb at the moment and reading through all your posts I know you all know how I feel. I did think I was alone in the whole not planning for the next few months...you know just in case   I have just realised how many years have gone by. I need to try and take some of your advice and try and live for us now, it is just so much easier said than done. 

I have enjoyed imagining us all meeting up in some part of the world, wouldn't that be great!  

Nordickat- Happy belated Birthday, hope you had a good one! I liked your last post and its good to hear you put you and DH first.  

Waikiki- Thanks for the tip of antioxidants, I have heard they can help to improve it a little. 

Kittten- Reading back I (like all of us) can identify with those feelings of carrying on everyday!    I can tell you that if we get our dream we will make the best deserving mums! 

Jamaica- Hope you had a nice break.

Pinkpixie- So glad to find out your cat returned home.   

Jbox- Wouldn't it be so lovely to meet up somewhere warm.  

Han- Has your DHs fragmentation been a possible problem? My DH has been taking supplements Sanatogen, similar to Wellman I think and also drinking lots of berry juices.

Winegum- Sorry about not being on, great to hear your DH is having the test done. I was told the embryo relies on DNA from the female until day 3, then it is the DNA from the male that is needed as well. I am not sure what the ideal figure is but they give you the result in %, my DHs was 47%. The embryologist managed to lower this to 20% when preparing the sample for fertilisation. Taking supplement and increasing antioxidants can help to reduce damage. I think it is worth having this test done if you fall into the category of poor implantation. Knowing that this has been the only thing that we have ever had come back negative has given me a tiny bit of hope. At least we can concentrate on trying to improve something.
The whole work thing, hmm I too dreamt I would be able to be a stay at home mum and so wouldn't have to work for too long. I have my own little business and work part time. At least like you said when working for yourself you don't need to explain when you have to do for TX.
PS Can I join you and Pinkpixie please..lol  

Lots of love to everyone else wobs,Mrs Rock,jbt,vw22 and anyone else I have missed xxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## pinkpixie

only a quick post as feeling shattered tonight.  We had our long awaited response from PCT on friday and in theor wisdom they have refused to transfer our funding to CARE beacuse the consultant at St Marys (Cheyrl Fitzgerald) doesnt believe in immune treatment so doesnt think we should have it   .  Was so angry and upset on fri that i burst straight into tears when i read the mail good job i was working from home.  SO have decision to make now any thoughts/advice gratefully received
option 1- have our final NHS go at st marys with no immune treatment
option 2 - as above but go to London for immune treatment (cant imagine st marys being happy with that seeing they dont approve)
option 3 - try and find money and go with CARE
option 4 - as above but try one of the clinics in london as their success rates are better
I dont mean to sound ungrateful for the NHS goes but find it frustating they wont transfer it as it wont cost them anymore as will fund the immunr side ourselves


sorry for the selfish post will do personals tomorrow
xx
h


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## vw22

Ok have been totally rubbish at posting here even though I am reading! For me, its a lot to take in most of the time but every so often something comes up that compels me to answer because I can. So I hope thats ok to just chip in when I think I have something vaguely relevant to add...


Winegum - I just had my DH results back. Its very easy to follow them as its usually laid out (like a sperm test) with healthy levels etc explained so you don't need a degree to understand it... My DH came back as excellent. On the one hand I was hoping it would be crap so I didn't have to blame myself for all the lost chance embies of the past but on the other hand I needed it to be good for surrogacy to work. Basically I was upset with the result and had another grieving process. But ultimately its good news. Good luck with your DH.


Pink pinxie - difficult to advise... its hard to pass up a free go on the nhs but at the same time why waste time. I would go for option 2. There is no need for them to know about the immune treatment...most girls end up doing like this anyway...I think its totally manageable. I had a ff friend that went with care with a good result and only some immunes treatment with them and is about to pop. pm me if you want me to pass on her details...


Nordikat - horrific news. I am a bit speechless. Just reminds me how we have to grab this life with both hands and appreciate the time we have.


Everyone else, I hope you are all well.


As you know I won't go on about the surrogacy stuff but I have booked an egg donor, got a lawyer, sorted the insurance, had a few heart tremors along the way and kicked that many ar ses I feel like opening my own agency. As my husband says "its like herding cats"!!! Just waiting for the details of a possible surrogate match now. Its moving along but its slow and doing my head in. what can I say, I am grateful I have the option though.


Love and laughter to all and keep smiling...til the next time...


vx


----------



## billabong

Pinkpixie- I would go for option 2. If I were you I would make sure I get my NHS go with or without immunes. If you can get the testing done then do that and go back to St Marys. If the money is not a big problem then do what you want but for me after using my NHS goes the money is adding up. Hope you come to a decision that you are happy with.  

Love to everyone else xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Nordickat

pixie - # 2 gets my votes too. Lots of ladies do it that way. Good luck with whichever road you take though.

vw - you do know you can go on about surrogacy if you want to though right? We do all genuinely want to know.   sorry its such a frustrating process.

billabong and everyone else   

I'm getting all muddled and confused and my own grief is all tangled in that of the nations and its so hard to separate them and understand what I actually feel about being Kat anymore


----------



## vw22

Thanks Kat...don't worry I do feel I can surro-chat here no problem... 


But its so complicated, unless I know anyone is actually really interested its hard to just 'mention' it. 


If there is anything anyone particularly wants to know just ask...its much easier for me to answer questions directly than just ramble willy nilly!!!


Kat I am sure you are muddled with emotions. I am sure we all half expected you to say that. If we were in your position (so surrounded by it), we would be the same I am sure. I am sure its going to continue for a while, there are just going to be hundreds of good and bad stories to come from this. Any chance you can lock your gate, cancel tv and the papers and live in a cave? Sadly I think thats the only way to deal with situations like this and keep from emotional turmoil...


Feeling for you and those around you...


vx


----------



## Nordickat

I´m on holiday next week so maybe your cave suggestion might be an option and maybe will help. I think I´m just a bit overwhelmed by it all and feeling guilty that I am grieving my own losses when all those other families have real loss to deal with. Its probably not helped by the fact my shrink, GP and hubby have all abandoned me so I have nobody to talk to about it, even pupster has gone and he usually solves all my worries with a big cuddle. At the rose procession yesterday I really was thinking about those that lost their lives. This morning though, I walked out of the station and it was all silent but the fountains and statues were all covered with roses and surrounded by burning candles, and that was when my own sadness kind of swallowed me up and I can´t get out of it.  


I hope your match comes through soon.
Katxxx


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## vw22

I think any loss is a real loss... however big or small it may seem. Never feel guilty for feeling what you do or comparing it to the heartache of others. Its too hard to validate such emotions. I really really hope you don't feel abandonned. In all the emotional circumstance around you, it must be natural to feel lost and questioning but try not to feel abandonned. It sounds to me like you have so much love around you. But I guess there is a fog of sadness engulfing everyone in your country right now and that is hard not to be affected by. But it will pass. try and go with the flow and lets the emotions out, maybe now is the perfect time to do that. 


Gosh, I havn't a clue what I am talking about but I would hate you to feel abandonned and so would anyone of us on this thread I think. Keep writing here if it helps. vx


----------



## Nordickat

You sound like you know what you are talking about - I fell for it!

This country shuts for summer and there is no help available for me for another 2 weeks. I think even the crisis center shuts for summer so clearly people are not meant to need support during July. We got an email at work saying that if anyone was directly affected by Fridays events they could contact HR ....... they will be back in the office in 2 weeks! 

I don´t think I would dare let my emotions out with no support network in place. Keep busy and distracted is my plan for the week and then hope DH keeps his promise that we can go away next week ......... my other thought was get drunk but I guess that won´t help really.

Thanks for listening though xxx


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## Winegum

*Pix:* #2 first, then when NHS tx has finished, #4. It is a bit daunting coordinating two clinics but it's perfectly possible. The immune tx tends to be stuff which is done in the lead up to a cycle. When you actually cycle you hand yourself over to clinic two, just making sure you have strict instructions on when and how and how much of the drugs your immune clinic has prescribed you. The ladies on the immune threads are v helpful.

*Nordickat:* I think it perfectly natural and OK for your emotions to be confused. When a huge sad event happens it makes us sad about our own situations because the mood is sad. When people are sad, you feel bad for everyone who experiences sadness, including yourself. It's Ok to do that because your sadness about yourself is a kind of solidarity with people who are also sad. A heirarchy of sadness and grief is not appropriate, everyones is relative to their own situation. Sorry if I sound a bit simplistic? Im just saying the same as vw but not as well! Your brain isn't going to stop thinking thoughts just because of what has happened. Take care 

*vw: *So, here are some questions for you....give me a flow chart of what happens in the surrogacy procedure and where you are at, and also time scales. That will do for starters. Like others, I'm genuinely interested and want to support you. 

*Mrs Rock:* Long time no hear?

*wobs:* Nearly there!

*Bilabong:* thanks for info on sperm test

Good appointment for me yesterday, back on the tx rollercoaster, well, almost. Usual pre-tx feelings going round my head. More detail later when I'm not so tired. Love to you all.


----------



## vw22

Kat - I think getting drunk always helps...but always getting drunk doesn't help!!! Thats probably very irresponsible saying that!!!

Winegum - "A heirarchy of sadness and grief is not appropriate, everyones is relative to their own situation." That was so brilliantly written I am going to nick it and keep it for later. Perfectly summed up what I was trying to say.

Surro-world chart of flowing info;
* Research and visit agency. They are getting better at doing skype so you don't have to have a first consultancy in person but ultimately you have to meet them. There are hundreds of agencies but we needed someone with experience in international clients and had dealt with nz clients like us.
* Doctor for IVF. He has to coordinate you (or your egg donor) and the surrogate. Agian more research for the best clinic to suit you. Another few months doing this.
* Insurance firms - this is key as we are doing this in US. Its complicated but a necessary evil...
*legal advice - attorney for contracts and birth certificates etc.

Please remember I am doing this in the US. You can go to oter countries but this is the only one where it is legal and you get all the necessary paperwork. No one offers a 'service' like them...but there is a price tag attached.

Where we are at? We have retained the surrogate agency, found an egg donor (through an agency), retained a lawyer, found the doctors clinic and given all the samples needed and done the medical tests, spoken to insurance people. We are waiting for a surrogate match and then move from there.

We are planning to go to transfer without meeting the surrogate (in person) but will do once we know she is pregnant.

Thats about it so far. Hope that helps vx


----------



## pinkpixie

Hi everyone


Kat like the others have sad sadness is relative to you and you will always morn and grieve for what is important to you, it is such a horrible situation but you are still going to feel sad for what is happening in your life.  If keeping busy and distracted works for you do you fancy coming to my house and sorting it  out for me lots of jobs need doing   .  


VW - surrogacy is something we have started to think about but it seems such a minefield.  What was the main reason for choosing to do it in the USA do you know anyone who has done it in the uk??  Hope you are getting sorted.


Winegum    its so much harder once you have had treatment cos you know what to expect.  Are you having immune tretment this time??


Han hope you are ok


Mrs Rock hi hope you are doing ok


JBT have you recoevered from your holiday yet??


Billabong hope your 2ww is going ok


Jbox, wobs, waikki and kitten hi hope you are all doing ok


Thank you for all you advice we still havent made a decision the difficult thing is that i have decided that i dont want to cycle with st marys again i have never been happy with them their monitoring is very poor and their success rates are shockingly poor, so we might look at our other NHS hospital which is leeds but still might consider going with Care as i really liked the consultant there.  Ahhh keep driving myself insane but things will sort themselves out.
xx
h


----------



## Nordickat

Winegum - the immune tx obviously worked? Thats fab news so at least you know you are giving this round your very best shot   

vw - it looks like you have got most of the tedious donkey work sorted out. I hope it'll be a much smoother process from here.

I didn't get drunk, I just picked my redcurrants which was therapy without the hangover  . I know I have to go with the flow, I just don't like where the flow is going thats all. And I'm trying to do too many things at the same time. I'm trying to become a new me, get my meds dose right (way harder than you'd think), while living in a country in mourning whilst deciding what to do about my final tx when it's becoming increasingly clear that I wouldn't be a good mother anyway. I know deep down that I am not really fit to be a mum but at the same time feel I have to do the final tx and hope it does work and at the same time hope it doesn't   Enough to drive anyone a bit bonkers I guess. I probably just need my DH to come home for a cuddle and I desperately need to find my off switch!

JBT - you have been suspiciously quiet. Hope you are OK?

Pixie - my keeping busy and distracted means busy reading my book or distracted daydreaming out of the window rather than physical activity so my house is still a pigsty. As soon as mine is cleaned I'll be straight round to yours, but don't hold your breath. What ever decision you make will be the right one. There is no such thing as a wrong decision in tx.

Kitten and MrsRock - you have been awfully quiet too.

JBox, waikiki and han -   hope you are OK?

Wobs - the final countdown now hey?

billabong - hoping hard for you.

 Katxxx


----------



## vw22

I can bearly cook an egg...I wonder if that means I will be a bad mother too   


Pinkpixie - Sorry I can't help on the care decision...but I have heard great things about them too...


Yes it is quiet on here...maybe thats why my pea brain can keep up with the chat! I hope everyone else is ok too...


Yes surrogacy is a minefield but I guess fertility shananigans was too before I became an expert so don't worry, any of you could handle it (but I hope you don't have to).


We had to choose the US for the main following reasons;
* You can't pay someone in the uk (it has to be virtually alturistic) and that means finding someone that wants to do it for you...but essentially your not even allowed to advertsise so its meant to be family or friends... too slow a process for us.
* India is a popular choice..cheaper etc. But the cultural aspects and the 'factory' like approach may not be what every one wants to deal with. Its very unclear if the woman doing it even know what they are getting in to...Also you do not get an indian passport for the baby (virtually impossible), you have to go the consolut of your own country...then of course you could get the surrogate questions, gets tricky. Same with georgia and greece and thailand as far as I know. You may never be given a passport and be allowed to take the babies out of the country.
* There are other countries that will do it. But its not legal OR illegal. Basically there are no defined laws so there is also the possiblilty that in a court of law any contracts you have are void. For example if she wanted to keep the baby or demand more money...you have nothing with the law to help you. Risky.
* The US run it like buying a new TV> Sorry to sound blatant but it is a business. Everyone involved is contracted to the hilt. She never has the option of keeping the baby (gestational surrogacy means never using her eggs too but there is traditional surrogacy for that). Your names are put on the birth certificate whatever. You are seen as the parents throughout. They get paid well. Its a win win situation from that aspect and the US government recognise this. It is a completely legal and binding contract. She would be breaking the law to keep the baby and a court would ensure that. If anything she is more worried you won't come and get the baby!!! The baby also automatically gets a US passport so no need to go to your consolut and face questions. So you can leave the country. To the outside world it pretty much looks like you went to the US to give birth yourself. 


Biggest plus, your name is on the birth certificate. We live in NZ there laws are the strictest in the world (like Germany), we think we have a hope of this working only because of the reasons above.


The UK by the way are beginning to change the way they look at surrogacy.


Thats a little overview, hope it helps. All I can say if you are at my age, seriously considering alternative options, look into this SOONER rather than later because once you make the decision to go ahead with surrogacy you can't want for it to happen, sooner than it can. Research in advance is the key thing. If you are lucky to not need it, get pregnant for example, you will never look back and wondered why you did all the research... I would imagine!!!!!!!!!!!!!


vx


----------



## kitten77

hi everyone im still here and reading.

want to give massive HUGS to you all and hugs to those who need them more than others at this point in time.


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Good Morning Ladies

I have been reading silently... in a confused state of mind... decisions to make and not sure what to do... thanks for noticing my absence, I am seeing my Career Councilor on Friday again so let us see what she has to say. Saw my doc on Monday evening and he has his concern about the embryos thawing, which is my main fear  

*Pixie* sorry I can't advise on your decision I am not familiar with any of those choices unfortunately, here you either do ivf, iui, fet at one clinic or you don't we don't have options regarding clinics, immune tests, free cycles anything so you are either privilaged enough to do it or not  crazy and sounds harsh but it is what it is  this is why these decisions are so hard because i have no idea if this fet does not work what my next step will be cause we certainly can't afford another cycle right now...

*Kat* i can imagine how you are feeling, just know we are all here for you if you need to talk...

Still a little worried about *Han* we have not heard from her in awhile. I hope she is just on vacay and can't respond. If you are silently reading then   

*vw* the surragacy thing is quite complicated and I am intrigued at the option it provides unfortunatley like many other countries it is not legal here in JA either, I did hear of one case where best friends did it and the surrogate refused to give up custody of the child and after all her expenses were paid etc,

At work at the moment and keep getting interrupted so I will write more later when I get home.

Hey Billabong, Mrs Rock, Winegum, JBox, Wobs, Waikiki & Kitten 

If you don't hear from me sorry but just overwhelmed at the moment and feeling a little lost but soon I will find my way and get back on track  this group rocks you are all so caring


----------



## JBox

I echo kittens post - big hugs to all who need it right now. 

I totally relate to the national outpouring of greif and sorrow that Norway is experiencing right now, after all i lived in jerusalem for 6 years when every week for at least 2 of those years we experienced a terrorist attack of some kind, either a bus , a shopping mall, a restaraunt, a cafe being blown up and hundreds of people randomly killed or injured.... just going to get a pint of milk or some new socks or getting the bus to work was putting my life at risk. it was a horrible and frightening time, but the national sollidarity that "we will get thro this" and the collective mourning for the families and friends affected was amazing.Its difficult to not get depressed, or down or even obsessed with it all, when the papers, tv channels and radios are reporting nothing else but and when melencholy music and pictures of the dead and their grieiving families are everywhere. Kat, i hope you are managing to keep your self busy and occupied and more importantly get your dose right so that you are starting to feel a bit more "normal" (if thats the right word). And dont beat yourself up about how you feel compared to the sadness that those families are experiencing, its all relative. 

VW, the surrogacy path sounds complicated and stressful but you sound pretty much on top of things. I really hope that now that you have overcome some of the stumbling blocks, that it will be smooth running from now on in and this time next year ... fingers crossed....x

As for all those doubting what sort of mums we will be, i think this infertility nightmare we are all in does that to our confidence. Even though I am a mum to a near 4 year old i am completely doubting myself on whether i will be able to cope, whether i will love this child as much, whether i am good enough to deserve this, whether im too old, whether i am too tired, too stressed, too selfish . its so awful how our minds work. I dont beleive that not being able to cook an egg or not being well or lacking in self esteem, means we will be bad mothers, there are sooooooooooo many awful terrible horrible mums out there, and we are not the same and we shouldnt think like that.

Mrs R - how you doing? you feeling ok?
JBT - hows the f.i.l situation? has he moved in?
PP - I agree with billabong , i would for for option no 2 
BB - how you?
Wobs, Waikiki, Kitten. Winegum, Han, and anyone else, hope you are doing ok....
xx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

JBox we are in the process of fixing up his bedroom and some modifications to the bathroom... he should be moving in  by the middle of August, DH is going to Florida for 3 days so after he gets back.

So my career councelor just called she is moving office and she has to postpone our meeting til next Tuesday.  

Have a good day Ladies...


----------



## wobs

hi ladies   
finally made it to the end of term....phew....exhausted!!!  going to have a few therapeutic days clearing the weeds that have grown in the garden while it has been sooooo neglected   before starting on the pile of stuff I have to do for next term   

Big     to all who need it at the mo

Will be back to do personals in a few days when my brain has calmed down and stopped rushing around!!! 
take care all 
Wobs


----------



## vw22

Hi everyone,


I hope you are all well.


I am just popping on to say I am going to try and get some links with girls that are on the surrogacy route. I think its going to be too difficult to keep up on here with everyone too so am going to step off this thread in search of 'thread' pastures new! I am sure everyone understands. 


All I want to say before I pop off is that I feel like my life is getting a little bit more normal each day. The hurt doesn't go away and nor does the disappointment but slowly I am getting my life back to ME again. I am really getting back in to the things I love like my artwork and painting and doing all the things I was too scared to do before like throw out brazil nuts, walk loads and generally be me. Normally I would be worrying about what the consequences were for a possible baby and life became so serious and false.


I am not saying I am complete or at peace without having a baby of my own but I am feeling like there is more to life to the one thing I probably can't have. I don't want to sound like another PMA worshipper (cos I am not) but I really want my life to not be ruled by this infertility thing. Its going to take alot of effort but I refuse to let it beat me til I am useless in all other areas of my life too.


You are all a wonderful group and if I had more time, I would stick about and enjoy your company more. 


But I have decided to wander where there is no real path and see where it takes me.


Hopefully meet you all on a 'where to buy the best pram' thread another day!...in the meantime take very special care of yourselves and remember even though it feels like it, this isn't everything in life unless we make it that...



I hope I havn't offended anyone and if anyone wants any specific info on the surro stuff, please just pm me.


vx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Morning vw I wish you all the best, and you sound like you are in a good place.

If ever you need to come back and vent please feel free, and keep us posted with your progress.

JBT


----------



## pinkpixie

we will miss you VW but can understand like JBT keep us updated of any progress and good luck


----------



## vw22

Thanks JBT and PP... no one answering me on another thread so could be back here before you know it!!! vx


----------



## JBox

Bye darling VW... we will miss you
and most of all, GOOD LUCK


----------



## billabong

Hello

vw22- Hope you get your dream!    If you get the chance give us a quick update from time to time. Thanks for all your advice, I may PM you in the future if we decide to go down the surrogacy route.  

Nordickat- Sending you a big  . For what it is worth I personally think that when you have to go through what we go through to try for a baby it makes us a little more special and appreciative of what matters in life...I think you would make a wonderful loving caring mum!  

AFM I had my OTD results back today and I have levels of 29   I will test again in 3days but I have had levels of 80 on OTD and they have risen but not as it should, so I am not holding my breath.   I know miracles happen but they never happen to me. I wish it were a straight yes or no....here we go again....  I just want to know why they don't implant properly, what am I doing wrong?

Love to everyone else winegum, kitten, wobs, mrs rock,jtb, jbox,waikiki, han,pinkpixie, jamaica and anyone I may have missed. xxxxx


----------



## wobs

Billabong               
Hope the levels rise. Keeping everything crossed for you

VW - good luck on your journey.  As the others say pls keep us updated from time to time.  Take care & wishing you a successful and positive journey   

Hi everyone else!
Beginning to feel less exhausted from the end of term now  

bye for now
Wobs


----------



## Mrs Rock

Billabong I really feel for you being in such limbo   .  I hope things will go the right way for you so much       

vw, bye then for now, I hope you get some replies soon on the other thread, we'll be here if you do ever decide to come back.  Wishing you lots and lots of luck and strength on your surrogacy journey xxxxx

Hello Wobs, glad you are recovering a bit now, hope you are spoiling yourself


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Billabong      hope your levels keep rising  

hey everyone else... you i am beginning to get very angry every time i want something it is taking forever, again i was to have had a meeting with the career counselor and again it is being put off...

Now she has moved office and is not ready to talk, so now she says i am to go home and think about what it is i would love to do work wise.. if i knew i wouldn't be going to her right!
So now we are to meet next week and go through what i like and what i see myself doing not necessarily tomorrow but a year or 2 from now... one thing IF has taught me is patience and i am not a very patient person...
As I continue to wait on both a baby and a new career i sit and wonder why?!

Hope you are all having a better day than me, hubby is off the island for a few days so home alone... feeling sorry for myself...


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Morning Ladies

I hope everyone is ok, this thread has been very very quiet...

Billabong how are you hon?  

Han still no word from you, I am thinking about you...   

Kitten, Kat, Mrs Rock, Pinkpixie, Waikiki, wobs, jbox, winegum hey how are you ladies? sorry if i left anyone out... 

vw I hope you are still lingering and you are getting some support on the other thread... 

As for me, still battling with thoughts of what to do... but i am holding my own. The allergies are still lingering every now and again my lip swells and i have no idea what is triggering it... 
I really need to try and get an allergy test done  

Just checking in anyway hope to hear from anyone soon, feeling very lonely all the way over here!


----------



## wobs

Hi ladies
sorry been awol....been recovering from school...

Billabong         

JBT     
Allergies sound a nightmare - reckon you should get some testing done
Reckon our weather here has been a little like the weather you have sometimes - its been really hot (well maybe not that hot but hot for me!) and very sticky and yucky...then again I always think when it is hot here it is not like it is hot in normal hot places....does that make any sense at all??!!  
hope you manage to get the counsellor appointment sorted soon - I'm hoping to pick your brains on her job ideas!    

Mrs Rock - I know you don't want to talk about it but your profile looks good     

Hi everyone else!
Wobs


----------



## pinkpixie

JBT your counsellor doesnt sound that helpful hope you manage to get your appointment with her soon.  Have you tried keeping a food diary to see if you can trace whats triggering it??  When does your FIL move in??


Billabong hope your levels are rising        


Wobs agree with you on the weather although it has broken here over the weekend and is cooler


hi to everyone else hope you are all ok like JBT its very quiet on here at the mo


AFM have a meeting in wed to speak to consultant regarding the decision they made about our funding dont think i will change their minds but might as well try am feeling generally poo about stuff can honestly say that i dont think i will ever have a baby   


xx
h


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Pixie I feel the same as you, I don't think I will have one either   and i can't seem to get over that...

As for the allergies I have been trying to keep note of the triggers... FIL moves in probably by the end of the month we have to do some modifications to the bathroom and so as soon as that is done... 

Yea the counsellor is having some issues but hopefully she has sorted it all out and we are on our way to some answers. I've been having a tough time with that aspect as well but I am being hopeful that all will go well...

Wobs as soon as i get some info I will share it with you... the allergies are a pain they really can be scary as you don't know what is triggering it and how far the swelling will go... and i think everytime i get a break out I blame that damn ivf drug
just another reminder of my short comings  

ANyway i really wish we could hear from some of the other ladies, i feel like now that i have connected with a group you all disappearing on me  hope you are all ok anyway!


----------



## Nordickat

JBT - sorry you are having a hard time still but I hope once your counsellor gets her act together you can at least start thinking of a career than makes you happy.

VW -   I hope we see you back her soon to tell us your baby is on its way   

Billabong -     I hope this is your sticky bean

Wobs - are you recovered enough to enjoy your break now?

Pixie -   I hope they surprise you on wednesday. Don't give up håpe yet   

Belly rubs to JBox and MrsRock

 to winegum and kitten.

 Katxxx


----------



## kitten77

hello everyone, really sorry not been on much, but been trying to take mind off not having baby so been trying not to come on here much - sorry if havent been there for you all.  

JBT - hows things with you today?  bit weid that councillor is messing you around, not really something a councillor should do, but hope it all gets sorted soon.  

Pixie and JBT - i never want to admit it but the further along this 'journey' we go the more and more it hits me that doubtful that i will ever have a baby either - spoke to DH on weekend (we were very drunk!) and even tho he admitted that he wouldnt say no to donor sperm which he said before, he said he would rather not....which is fair enough but we are stuck again.  and he even said we can get a surrogate, but he does not understand that i WANT to be pregnant, its not just all about having a baby, i also want to experience the being pregnant, then i end up crying, then he just says that we will do this and be pregnant, which is fine with the whole PMA thing....but we have been saying that for years now!!!! i just cant believe it anymore. 

hello to everyone else, dont seem very busy on here does it! 

i want a hot hot hot holiday!!!!! but cant afford it due to saving for tx - arggggh!


----------



## wobs

Hi ladies

Kitten, JBT, Pink Pixie -I think we're probably all with you on this - don't believe we'll even have kids...however (sorry tiny bit of PMA here!!   ) I guess a chance is still a chance and i guess that's why we're still all slogging away at this!

Kitten - think my DH feels the same really about donor sperm... its very hard isn't it.  I reckon we'll do this one go at the ARGC (if they'll have us) and that'll be it....for a while at least or maybe totally.    I'm with you too on the not logging in - it does help!!  Sort of!!   

Kat - hi!  Yes am feeling very rested now thanks.  Still working - doing all my planning/prep for next term but its different when you don't have to wizz up in the mornings etc.... Hopefully will get it all done soon so I can stop. 

Pixie - hope you get the answer you want on Weds.

JBT - hope you're getting somewhere with working out triggers etc.... All very tricky to work out I imagine.  I stopped loads of foods to stop my migraines and not really sure it made any difference   

take care everyone

WObs


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Morning ladies,

So the allergies struck again last nite   I am going to try and find out how to do an allergy test tomorrow, i must cause this is getting to me now! this time around I had a bump under my eye and beside my eye, and the inside corner of my lip was slightly swollen... I didn't have anything unusual, i did have a cookie with peanuts but peanuts never affected me before just walnuts and pecans    

kitten I am with you on that hot hot hot vacation and I don't mean weather, i mean sizzling hot, exotic vacation in a sexy country   

have a great day ladies


----------



## JBox

HI girlies

havent been on here for a long time... am reading but not really writing, more coz i feel that maybe you want me to move threads now given my status and if you do, i totally understand. I am going to write whats been going on with me, but please please please tell me to go somewhere else, if you feel this is inappropriate. 

I am very sad today. i have been living with my head in the sand for the past 14.5 weeks. apart from feeling sick, i have had no pregnancy symptons, and i am STILL trying to get my head round what we have done ie donor egg, and how this child is not really mine (genetically) and i am finding it very hard to digest and i am worried on so many levels that i wont be able to bond etc. Consequently, i have not really told anyone about the pregnancy, and have just carried on as per normal... Slowly slowly over the past week i told a couple of close friends, and yesterday i told my friend who is 32 weeks pregnant with no 3 at age 41 ( totally natural) and she was so excited for me, but i sat there po faced feeling like a complete fraud, all i could think in my head was this isnt my baby, its some other womans, and anyone could do this if they wanted to. anyone can go and get a younger womans egg and fall pregnant and claim it as their own. I can not beleive that this is what i have done to get pregnant, and my thoughts are so superficial, what will the baby look like, what if there was a mix up and it comes out a different ethnicity to me, what if it has bright red hair - how will i explain all that to everyone?I  felt completely emotioneless  talking to her and i think she was shocked at how unexcited i was, so i put it down to so many years of struggles and disapointments making it hard to feel real happiness. but i know its not that, i feel totally freaked out about this. 
So much so, that i havent really been taking my tests and dr appts very seriously, just kind of going with the flow so to speak between one appt and the next. i think deep down after 3 misses, i didnt think i would get this far, so i never really thought beyond week 12.... So today i finally went to do the blood tests ( stats to show whether you have to do an amnio) that my dr gave me over 3 weeks ago. I kept thinking ill go next week, ill go on monday etc, When i got there, i found out that i missed the deadline, it had to be up to week 13 and i am over that, and so i cant do the test. I am devastated. it made me realise how UNconnected i am with this pregnancy and how i have to get with the program. i have been sat in the car for the past 3/4 hour crying - how could i have missed such a crucial test?what is wrong with me? Why arent i getting this? i really thought i would be so excited, and so happy. i am not taking this seriously. this is serious... this is what i have strived for for the past few years. why cant i deal with it? what is wrong with me? how will i ever get over this de issue?
i am sorry i know this isnt the right place for this, and i should find a different thread now but i miss you girls and your words of wisdom and i dont feel like i have moved emotionally and i am still where you all are, living with the disapointments and the disillusionment and the lack of hope and well, lets not beat around the bush...depression....
reading this over, i realise what i am writing isnt appropriate so i think like VW, i am going to have to go find my own place somewhere else. i am so sorry. so so so sorry that a) i have to leave and b) that i am writing such selfish and self absorbed things here. 


x


----------



## Nordickat

Oh JBox, I'm so sorry you have been suffering in silence     . Personally I think this is just the place for us to post   

We would all like to think that when will get pregnant and be 'cured' of our years of heartache but its really not that simple. When worries are so deep set and personal I think its hard to say all that is in your heart to strangers and I would like to think you feel easy talking to us. VW didn't leave us because her posts were inappropriate (I hope not anyway?), she went because she needed to talk to others in her position. I thought months ago we all agreed we could say anything on here, especially when you are clearly hurting so much     . I hope that even if we can't completely understand how it feels to be in your shoes, that we can at least all empathise with you and support you however we can. This thread is afterall about us all finding our happiness by whatever means and I would be upset if anyone on here held any grudge towards you. So, please don't appologise for being you, we love you just the way you are and want to help you through this.

Are you still seeing your counsellor? Please make an appt with her and if she is no good for you then you must find somebody else who can help you through this. We will do our best but I think you need some support from a real life person too. For what its worth, I am absolutely sure things will work out just fine, I know I have said that a zillion times to you, but I really do believe it. You just have some things to sort through first.

Sorry, endless waffle with no real point to it and now I have a meeting to go to. I'll pm you later. You know where I am though, anytime. I really miss our chats  . They were very important to me (and still are) and you have a special place in my heart and I refuse to let you suffer by yourself. 

Talk to us   
Katxxx


----------



## waikiki

I'm sorry to hear what a tough time you are having JBox    

As Kat says, this is exactly the place where you should be posting as we know all that you have been through to get this far, so I hope that we can now offer you the support that you need.  

Although I have never been pg, I have had to get my head around DE treatment, which has been incredibly difficult for me.  If I'm honest, I am still not really OK with it although I feel like I have to pretend to everyone else that I am because it is my best/only option of having a child.  When I first knew that we would have to turn to DE I saw a counsellor at my old clinic and she told me that if I waited until I felt 100% comfortable with DE before starting tx, then I would never move forward because she said in all her years of counselling IF couples, she had never come across one that could proceed with DE without having some doubts and fears.  

I also have three friends in my local area who I have meet via FF who all now have DE twins.  I remember talking to at least two of them during their pregnancies about their fears of bonding with their babies.  A few years on, they all adore their children.  When I was first trying to get my head around DE I went to meet my FF friend's 18-month old twins and they were the most adorable little boys.  I saw how my friend and her DH were with them and there was no doubt that they had all bonded as a happy, loving family.  My friend told me that she rarely even thinks about the DE issue anymore as it just doesn't matter, they are her babies and that is that.

I still have days when I wobble over the whole DE thing - I have been torturing myself again recently about the 'what ifs' of just one more tx with my own eggs.  But whenever I feel myself wobbling, I try to think of those little boys, because as much as I would love to have 'my own' genetic baby, I know that I would give anything right now to have the lovely family that my friend has.

I hope this helps a little bit hun, but keep talking to us because we are here for you.

 waikiki


----------



## JBox

omg, 

I just burst out into tears at work, atmy desk, in an open plan office full of men!!!!

thank you so much kat and waikiki for your kind words - reading your posts has really helped me coz today has been a really crap day.

Waikiki, i think what your concellor says is so true... i dont think anyone is totally 100% ok with the de route. of course, our dreams are to have our own baby, that looks like us, has characteristics like us.... my councellor says its a complete narcassistic way of thinking coz every baby / child is independent and different. its true, of course, but it still doesnt help take away the pain of giving up on something that so imprtant. i am pleased to hear that a) you know so many people who have gone down the de route and b) that they are so completely happy and bonded with their babies. i hope that i will be like that too. i think having my oe child isnt helping matters as i keep comparing to that. My other issue is i dont want to tell anyone that this is what we have done.l i am ashamed of it, embarrassed that this is what i had to succumb to to extend my family. I was blessed with the most beautiful girl, naturally conceived why couldnt i have been happy with what i had? why did i have to go searching and scouring and wanting for more?

Kat, i cant wait to hear from you. I hope you are doing beter in yourself darling and that the holidays have helped...

Everyone else, thanks for reading sorry if i sound ungrateful. 

I have fingers crossed for billabong who we havent heard from and JBT hope that the allergies are geting better
no more personals, have to go to the toilet now to wipe away the tears....


----------



## Nordickat

JBox -   again. Embarrassed? I think you should feel the opposite of that. I think you should hold you head high and be proud of yourself. You wanted this so badly that you found away to fight with all your might to achieve it. That is something to be proud of. It takes a brave ands strong JBox to make the sacrifices you have to complete your family.
 Katxxx


----------



## kitten77

ditto completely with Kat there - why are you embarrased, you (and all of us) are very strong women, we knew/know what we want and we will do anything to get there - that is something to shout about, something to say 'here you, i wanted a baby so much i did what i think is right - i am carrying it, i will love it (and you will), and i will bring it up no different than my first gorg girl' - you my lovely are a insperation - imbrace this and think how great you are!!!!! i for one think you are! 

and please dont go! i set this thread up so people like us can have a place to go to get off their chest things that you maybe wont say to a 'real' person, and we are here to help you through these times, DO NOT go, we are here and i will speak for everyone here to say, you are one of us.....your stuck with us im afraid my lovely!!!!!!


----------



## waikiki

I echo what kat and kitten have said, you should not feel embarrassed or feel like a fraud as you mentioned in your earlier post - you have fought harder for this baby than the majority of people will ever have to.  You have earned this miracle and if you told your friends and family about what you have been through, I'm pretty sure they would be in awe of your courage.

....And now to completely contradict what I have just said.....although my 'rational head' truly believes that, in my heart I feel the same shame that you do about using DE.  We have decided that if I ever do get pg we would have to tell close family and friends because one day we would plan to tell the child, as I believe it would be their right to know about their genetic origins.  The thought of the day that we have to tell people fills me with horror, even though I know that at the moment it is still only a hypothetical day in the future, that may not ever even come.

Having to resort to DE is a really difficult situation to ever accept but I think that we beat ourselves up with other elements of our individual histories to make it worse.  You mentioned feeling bad about 'using a younger woman's eggs to get pregnant' whereas for me the donors are not much younger than me which makes me feel more of a failure that I have to use DE when I should still be able to easily conceive naturally at my age.  You mentioned your worry about comparing your DE child to your genetic child, while I think over and over again about what my own child would have looked like, essentially comparing any DE child with a 'perfect genetic angel child' that I will never meet.  I don't know why we do this to ourselves, it only makes it harder. 

I just try to keep telling myself to hang on until the day that I finally meet my baby, because from everything I have heard that is when all of the worries melt away and you feel only love for them.


----------



## Nordickat

Completely different circumstances I know, but I felt the same shame at some points when we were going through our adoption process. Would people look at me and think I was a failure and a fraud for having this child in tow that was so obviously not mine (we were adopting from Colombia). Then I thought about it some more. Pretty much all adoptions are from abroad in Norway so its fairly obvious and not once have I thought anything of the sort about the adoptive parents or adopted children. I generally think absolutely nothing when I see them, same as I do when I see any family walking about.

Hard as it is we should be proud of who we are and what we have survived ........ easy to say of course and I know we all struggle with it on a daily basis whether we are pg, still trying, or in the process of moving on.

Kaxxx


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## Winegum

I'm so desperate to join in this chat but I'll have to wait til I get home because I'm on my phone and at work so I can't manage a mega post right this minute, but just wanted to say quickly that dramatic exits are not allowed - vw is still lurking even if she isn't posting so keep posting JBox.  Lots to add, including why I think this thread and all of you are absolutely fabulous.


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## Han72

Hello

just poking my head out of my cave to say "YEAH! WHUT THEY SAID!!!!" Jbox my lovely, I too have heard from another FFer that their counsellor told them noone goes into DE 100% happy about it. I personally feel like it's a betrayal of myself if that makes sense, like I'm giving up on myself and my chance to pass on my own genes. I cannot for the life of me imagine the mixed feelings that must come with the knowledge that you're bound to compare the DE child to your OE child, but I know a woman who can.  If you go to the Donor boards, there's a thread about "telling the child and others"  I realise this isn't what you're planning to do right now but there is an FFer who posts there called DrownedGirl. She has DE and OE children and can possibly help you with the mixed feelings you're experiencing now.

Please don't beat yourself up for missing your appointment. These things happen, call it pregnancy brain rather than a deliberate attempt to sabotage or ignore this pregnancy.  That being said, it's taken you a hell of a long time to get here and you had to go thru hell to achieve this pregnancy I think it's only natural that you feel so exhausted by the process and dogged by worries that maybe DE was the wrong way to go about it.  In the few weeks that I was pregnant with DE last year I don't think I ever really believed it was real or felt that baby was mine but on the other hand, I was convinced that once I felt that baby move, that would be the trigger and I'd finally accept him as mine.

Obviously I never got to that point but the reason why I was so sure it would be ok is cos as others have said, I know FFers who went into DE with exactly the same misgivings that we have now, but at some point during the pregnancy and definitely by the time their babies were born, all that was totally forgotten and those feelings of disconnection totally disappeared. I'm also AMAZED when I look at pix on ******** and see how much these DE children seem to favour their mothers. The people who do the matching must understand how we feel about this and REALLY take care to do all they can to minimize any issues.

Please, if you can, have a poke around those donor boards, I think it might be helpful to get a point of view from both camps, "telling" and "not telling" and see how you feel about the whole thing. And I really think counselling could be so helpful for you right now so that you can ease these worries and concerns and get on with enjoying this hard earned and well deserved pregnancy. Remember, you haven't done anything at all to be ashamed of!  What is shameful about wanting to provide your DD with a little brother or sister to play with/tease  

You went into this with the very best intentions and, as a result, your lovely little girl will have the benefit of a sibling, something I was CONSTANTLY begging my mother for as an only child.  Where's the shame in that? Now if you'd marched into a maternity ward and nicked some other woman's kid, well maybe that would be a cause for shame, but what you've done..   I'm obviously biased but I don't see anything to be ashamed of, quite the opposite! 

Ok I'm obviously rambling now and i'm supposed to be doing prep work for this stupid TEFL course I went and signed up for in a moment of madness. It starts next week, I haven't even opened a book yet    So I'll sign off now, just wanted to say:

JBT , hope you get to the bottom of this allergy  thing, I think you can develop allergies later in life, so it could be the peanuts after all!  Good luck with FIL    

NK - thanks for your PM hon     

VW - hope you're still lurking an will keep posting from time to time, I'd definitely be interested in hearing how the surro procedure is going.
Billabong - I know we don't really do PMA  on this board but sending you some        anyway that those numbers are still going the right way   

 Waikiki, Kitty, love to everyone else and sorry no more persos but I'm still lurking to keep up with all of you

xxx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Finally you ladies are alive! Ok I want to post and give JBox lots and lots of hugs, doan go nuh whey, Han u can translate.... Han I am so happy to see u, been worried about u - haven't read yur post yet but I will when I get back.... going to the hospital to try and get some details on how to get the allergy tests done... but my stomach giving me hell, those pains are back 

So JBox first and foremost you are to be admired to go thru with DE and second we wouldn't want you to go anywhere we are her to help... we are family and that's what family does...

When I return I will put my 2 cents worth... the time difference killin mi though!


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## kitten77

JBT - yes yes yes - we are family and this is what we are here for! love it.


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## Hbkmorris

Hello

Would you mind if I joined you please. I've just had my 3rd failed attempt well 2nd full cycles anyhow. I have twisted tubes and left one stapled, have 2 ovarian cysts and DP poor sperm count.

1st cycle was cancelled due to poor response 3 days prior to EC
2nd cycle 2x 8 cell embies both top graders 2x freezer AF arrived 3 days prior to OTD
3rd cycle 4 made it to blasts. 2x blasts put back 2x blasts in feezer and guess what 4 days prior to OTD AF arrived again.

I'm really not sure what else I can do, I eat healthy, don't drink, stopped smoking Feb 2010 and do everything I can to make a difference. With a low AMH of 6.45 they told me that my chances of success was poor but I never imagined this poor.

I'm told that low AMH can also mean poor egg quality but how can that be when the 2nd cycle embies were top graders and the 3rd were top blasts!! I'm lost and need answers to my questions like why won't they implant! Arrrrgh sorry ladies I've rambled on enough.

Hope you are all well and dont mind me joinging in xx


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## Hbkmorris

Kitten77 I notice that you always get you AF prior to OTD have your clinic advised why this may be? It's a massive concern to me.. I only have a 21-23 days cycle which is why I get my AF bang on time regardless of the drugs! 
x


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## Han72

Hi and welcome HBK  so sorry for your BFN hon. Two possible solutions spring to mind with this business of starting to bleed before OTD. Firstly, does your clinic give you any progesterone support following ET? Like Crinon gel or Cyclogest pessaries?  Secondly, has your man had a DNA sperm fragmentation test done?  This can flag issues that aren't shown on a regular sperm test and can explain why good looking embies either arrest before they get to blast or deteriorate at some time shortly afterwards....

Love to everyone, I promised I was going to get on with reading and haven't done a blasted thing!

Oh PS -  JBT said, "don't go anywhere!"  Good luck with the allergy tests chica! 

xxx


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## kitten77

Hi HBK! and welcome you are more than welcome here! 

yes your seen right, i always bleed before otd.  last cycle i was on gestrone injections, this indeed stopped the bleeding before otd but didnt mean anything as still failed.  so agree with Han, talk to your clinic about extra progrestone support.  

han - im confused again, is the fragmentation same as keryotyping?


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## Nordickat

WG - one of the things I think makes this thread and us so fabulous is that we can go quiet for periods but then we one of us needs something we are all there instantly with the right words. The other thing I love is that you are all so articulate and its always a pleasure to read to all your posts.


Han -    and I´m still looking forward to our meet in the loony bin   . We see what we want to see when it comes to family likeness. If we think people are related then we find similarities in personality and in looks.


HBK - welcome to the fold.   I´m sorry you find yourself here but I hope you find it a comforting place to be.


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## pinkpixie

Jbox    please carry on posting here we all want to help you.  I cant over much advice on the DE but i can imagine that once you get pregnant after going through so much it must be hard to accept anyway and then you have the donor issue on top of that.  Hope you are feeling better.


JBT hope you manage to get some answer about your allergies


Han hi hope you are ok


hbk welcome sorry about your latest failed attempt, i always bleed before OTD unless i have progesterone support and even then get some spotting before OTD.  Have you thought about immune tests etc??


hi to everyone else


i have got my appt with someone from the team who made the decision about our funding i will be trying not to either burst into tears or loose my temper and walk out.  Wish me luck
xx
h


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## Hbkmorris

Thank you han72 yes my clinic give me cyclogest 2 a day I was offered gestone but the injections sounded a bit rough so I went with cyclogest in hindsight I wonder if I should of changed!! 

No dp hasn't had the testing done mind you I can't get him to go for acupuncture so god knows how I'll get home to go for other tests that said I will ask my consultant when I see them.

Thank you so much for your kind words and help x


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## Hbkmorris

Hi guys thanks again,

Yeah I always thought that having 2 cyclogest was classed as quite high but now I'm wondering. Now I know some of you have had gestrone and still bled I see maybe that's not the total answer! 

Yeah I've been looking into immune testing but then nearly fell off my chair when I saw the price! We've already spent 10k and to be honest monies tight now.. Im now wondering whether to try FET or to leave them in the freezer and save for extra testing.... Oh I'm confused.com xxx


----------



## Han72

Hi Kitten hon, no it's something else again.  Apparently levels over 30% mean you'd never get a pregnancy to term, even if the regular sperm analysis looks fine and you get perfect embies/blasts cos (as I understand it) the egg' DNA controls the first few days of development but after that, the sperm is supposed to "take over" or something like that.  If the sperm DNA is too damaged, development stops and you get a BFN, chemical pregnancy or a miscarriage. I'd had 8 failed IVF/ICSI's before anybody thought to check this and it turns out that DH's level was over 28% which is right on the borderline. Trust me, the day the doc explained to him exactly what those results mean was the last day I had to remind him to take his vitamins!

I really don't understand why something that so clearly has such a huge impact on success, and can be remedied quite easily with vitamins and supplements isn't tested as a matter of course  

NK -  yep, see you at the loony bin  I hear they're building a Barbie pink padded suite just for us   That's true, what you say about family likeness, but in this case, I KNEW the children were donor conceived so I wasn't expecting to see any resemblance at all, that's why I was so impressed as that's one of my biggest (and daftest) issues with DE, that my child won't look like me  

Anyhoo, better log off cos DH is sulking cos I'm on here instead of talking to him   Have a good evening all!

xxx


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## pinkpixie

Han what vits/supp are the best to take for DNA fragmentation how much does the test cost


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## kitten77

han - what pixie said? and also where can we get this done?


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## jamaicababytrying

Good morning Ladies

Sorry about not responding, but had a really crappy day yesterday... thank goodness i didn't work.

*JBox* once again my dear please do not feel embarrassed, all i have to say is that i agree with all the other ladies... you have been through a lot and you have finally accomplished your ultimate goal and that is to have a family! I can only understand your apprehensions about not using OE. Look at it like this the baby could look like your husband you know, not all children look like their mothers! As time goes by I think you will start to conenct with the baby and by delivery you will be so in love with this child that you will hardly think of DE.  

Welcome Hbk, so sorry to hear your news. I was on progesterone twice daily after my transfer didn't bleed till i heard I got a negative and that was after the 2ww so I don't have much to offer in that regard. But i do understand your frustration and disappointment.

*Han* girl so happy to hear you, was worried, btw what is a TEFL course?... and now worried abt *Billabong * I hope she is lurking and seeing that we are thinking abt her. 

As for me I went to the hospital to see if I could get to the bottom of this allergy thing. They don't do allergy testing but they did refer me to 2 doctors who do, one actually works out of that hospital but has a private practice. So i now have to call and get the cost and what to do in prep for it. So the allergy is one thing now I am still suffering with this terrible stomach pain i have been having periodically, had it again yesterday and I have NO idea how to either describe it to anyone or tell them what is causing it. All I know is that it is very painful and literally dibilitates me... So i think i now have to see a specialist to get to the bottom of this before I do anymore procedures... So do I spend the money on the tummy man or the allergy man At least with the allergies I think I know what causes it and I can take something for it, but not with the tummy... Although I strongly suspect the tummy could be stress related! So that is where I am, still haven't seen the career counsellor just because i haven't had the time to call and make an appointment but I will do so for next week.

Ladies I hope you all have a lovely day... btw anyone being affected by the riots in England? please stay safe...


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## wobs

Hi ladies

Jbox      sooo sorry you are feeling so rubbish.  All the other wise ladies have said it really but thinking of you. DOn't really know what to add to help. DON'T GO ANYWHERE!!!

Hi HBK sorry to hear about your journey to us.  I always used to bleed before test day - but on last 2 cycles have had gestone & progesterone - at least i feel there is half a chance.
Re: testing -after our 3rd failure we decided to go and see a urologist to see if there was anything else we should be testing for.
Trying to think of all the tests we have had done but
DH - karotype, CF
both of us chromosomes
all done by GP
If your DH has a count of over 1 mil you can have DNA fragmentation and aneuploidy done.  If high DNA fragmentation high doses of vit E & vit C are recommended.  So because my DH's count way way way too low for tests he has a cocktail of vitamins (!) plus lycopene is supposed to be good (in tomatoes).
If you look on the male factors in infertility board there is lots of info about this.  I think sometimes if the woman already has some known issues the man is overlooked.  If you want anymore info on this let me know & I'll look up all the tests etc...
Re: immunes - many clinics have different opinions on them.  I have to say I am a sceptic but after so many failures wanted to have them tests - see below (I am now confused!)

JBT - hope you feel better soon.  Sounds awful!!

AFM - got my immunes back from ARGC....don't know what to think....they're very high.  I'm pleased they found something - a possible reason for implanation failure and miscarriage but a little scared re: humira and IVIG....DH wants to do more research - he's very sweet and sensible bless him - as he says no point in me taking something that will cause me problems in later years..  
Anyone on here taken humira
Also they say my E2 level would be too high to start with them....and will need it tested each day 1 til it is lower.  Not sure how it will get any lower though as it is always like that    It is still within standard guidelines but too high for them.  Still they are being thorough and for this last shot I guess that's what we need.  But definitely won't be able to plan this IVF like our previous cycles!!!  Trying to chill and go with the flow - and at the moment feeling pretty chilled about it - maybe its cos i'm on summer hols! 

Big hugs to those who need it   

hi everyone else
must go; dinner to cook
Wobs


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## Winegum

Just quickly, my dh has just had sperm DNA frag done.  It cost £400 and we got in done through Dr Gorgy who got it done at TDL (the doctors laboratory) in Wimpole St. You could prob get it done direct.  I don't know what supplements to take but someone will.  I took Humira for high TNFa and it didn't bring it down at all.  It doesnt work for everyone but it does for some. My experience of immunes is it's very much trial and error.  Hope to come on for a long post tomorrow xxx


----------



## JBox

can i just say the biggest *THANK YOU   * to you all. you are all such wonderful lovely women and i appreciate you so much not judging me and making me still feel so welcome here.. i do feel like its become my home on FF!

HBK you are in the best thread with the best women and you will find strength from everyone here.

xxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Nordickat




----------



## pinkpixie

wobs any info you can give re tests for DH would be great apart from normal sperm analysis we havent been offered anything else ny DH has a slightly low count but issue is that they are "lazy".
Re the immunes i am confused about the whole thing as well, i had massive concerns about IVG and humeria but care doesnt offer this so wasnt given it as an option must admit that is what has put me off going to London as they treat the whole immune thing a lot more aggressively which scares me.  The meeting i went to yesterday about funding the consultant from that is supposed to be letting me have some info about the immunes so will let you know what that says.


JBT you are really going through the mill at the mo huge    for you.


kitten has your DH had any tests done


Hi to everyone else


well had my appt yesterday they explained why they refused to transfer the funding basically they dont believe that immune treatment works and can cause problems for both me and any child so they wont support me.  Dont know what we are going to do next   .  I have my 2 nieces and nephew and mum coming to stay for a few days which should be good and very distracting!!!!  Also need to go and see my friend with her new baby at some point soon.  


have a good day everyone
xx


----------



## Hbkmorris

Morning ladies

Thank you once again for making me feel so welcome.

Wobs thank you for your information, unfortunately my DP has very low sperm count at the time of our last cycle it was 36 thou of a mil! They have said that although it's very low his motility is 70%. they don't seem to concerned but I'm now wondering what else could be wrong!

He had to take steroids some years back for 8 years due to health issues and ever since then his always had a poor count. He has two boys from a previous realtionship 16 & 10 so i'm lost for words! Obviously it's me and not him   

I've so many questions to ask the consultant in september it's untrue... At this rate he'll need 2 hours! ha ha 

I'm going to try and lose some weight and may I ask you ladies whats your thoughts on me taking DHEA? I know my clinic (being an NHS hospital) don't believe in it but I would rather try if I can.. What mg do you take if you have or do take them?

pinkpixie.. Bloomin NHS are PANTS! We have paid all our national insurance so why can't we get any help from them.. they make me so angry! We were refused tx straight away due to DP having children.. I'm not allowed to see them let alone know them due to the ex and even when I tried explaining that no matter whom I'm with I will never have a natural preg so why are they refusing me they just came out with i'm not exceptional enough! And I've later found out if I move 2 miles down the road into warwickshire I can have tx with dp and his kids but time is not on my hands and we've only just moved!! ARRRGH very annoying x

JBox.. Thank you.. hope your ok.

Sorry for running off but I'm at work and the boss keeps sniffing around!

xx


----------



## kitten77

morning everyone.

pixie - dh has had normal sperm count done, low and everything wrong with the way it moves etc, also had chromosones done (both of us) - all normal on them, but nothing else done, still fighting now as they found out that DH had the 'problem' i wasnt looked at at all, its only now that im waiting to go and have a lapcoscpy (? i think the one they go in your belly button!), this is after 5 years trying and 6 txs!!! makes me angry!!! - anyway i degress - so no he hasnt had any other tests done, we asked his doctor (who is the MOST unhelpful doctor ever and tells him to practically go away as he is wasting his time), to see if he could go and see a urologist and he said no. 

we were thinking abotu having immunes done, but the cost is mega, and now we are waiting on this operation thingy that im having we are going to go after that, which means that its more waiting and getting more older by the day - so annoying. sio therefore havent even thought about if i had immunes what i woudl or wouldnt take, but i think i have got to the point now that i would take anything!

winegum - thanks for the info - dr gorgy is the person we want to go and see.

wobs - good that they found something.... and bad that they found something, but like you said least now you have a reason and can look ahead to do something abotu it. i have no idea abotu immunes so i cant help im afraid. 

me and DH were on loads of supplements before our tx last time including dhea we were on them for a year before, i think they helped but we cant afford them really (£120 approx per month!), but thinking maybe go back on some of them, then i wonder if i pick some, maybe i am picking the wrong ones! why is everything so stressful!!! haha. 

i have a long weekend this weekend, 4 days! harrah, soooo need it, the only holiday i take other than 1 day here and there is for tx, so havent been on proper holiday for a while! its DHs birthday to so gonna spoil him!


----------



## kitten77

posts crossed HBK - yes i was on dhea for a year (longer than suggested, thats only cuz we put our tx back 6 months), and i dotn know if it was that or combination of that and all the supplements we were taking but i had the best round of eggs (amount and fertilisation) i ever had, so from my PERSONAL point of view i would take it again when i do next tx. i took 50mg per day.


----------



## waikiki

Hello ladies,

Sorry I must be quick as am posting at work.

Wobs - I took humira a couple of years ago after being diagnosed with very high TNF-A (51) and had no adverse side effects apart from a really stinking cold, the first one I had had in years.  After two injections my levels came right down to within the acceptable level for tx, although sadly I got a BFN.  I then ignored humira for a while as I really didn't want to take too much of it, so had a few more tx with just prednisolone and IVIG/Intralipids, but still no joy.  So after my latest DE tx failed in March I went back to Dr Gorgy to get all of my levels re-checked.  My TNF-A was only slightly high this time, which is interesting because humira is only supposed to stay in your system for about 6 months I think.  Anyhoo, even though my level was 31.8 (ideal is below 30) Dr G recommended I take humira again because of my history of very high TNF-A.  So I took my first humira jab on Monday in preparation for our next tx which will hopefully be in October - again, so far no side effects.

HBK - welcome!    I have also taken DHEA in the past (honestly, it feels like I've had just about every fertility med or supplement at some time!).  I used to take 75mg a day as I am a known poor responder.  It's hard to know how much it improved my eggs because at the same time I started DHEA I also switched from long protocol to short protocol, and from Puregon to Menopur.  However although I didn't get many eggs (4-7) I always had good quality embryos to put back.  If you are going to start DHEA I would also recommend that you get your testosterone levels checked though, because if you stay on it for some time it can raise your levels which can adversely affect your tx (I had mine checked and they were fine, but I know some women who have had this problem).

Jbox - Glad that you're feeling the veteran barbie love hun, you know that we would never judge you.   

Han - Good to hear from you hun.    

JBT - It sounds like you need some of these too


----------



## Nordickat

I've got myself into a spot of bother by breaking a serious law I didn't know even existed and its causing me a lot of anxiety and stress, which is leaving me completely exhausted. It is taking all my energy to keep things together but I will probably keep reading all your news but my words of wisdom are all dried up so my posting my be a bit sporadic for a while. I'll be thinking of you all though.

Lots and lots of love to you all, 
Katxxx


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## Hbkmorris

Thank you Kitten77.. I am going to speak with my doctor and my consultant about this drug as I want to take it I've read such good results with it and I'm willing to give anything a go! I think the problem is sometimes the docs & cons don't know enough about these drugs to advise us fully.. pain in the buttarsh! Do you think 3 months or so would make a difference?

waikiki.. I agree with you short protocol with Menopur is far better for ladies classed as poor responder. I was classed as that too due to having my first cycle cancelled 3 days prior to EC, that time I was on long prot with only 3 amps of menopur the past two cycles i've done were Flare prot with 6 amps of menopur and I've always had low number of follies but good quality embies or blasts and both time I've had 2 embies froze so I cannot understand WHY this keeps happening. 

I always thought that if your embies were poor quality then surely they would be top graders on day 3 and they certainly wouldn't make blasts! and I had 4... Crazy old process!!

xx


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## waikiki

HBK - tell me about it! Since I was diagnosed with high FSH at the age of 30 my doctors have always put my BFNs down to poor eggs, even though I have got to blast and had generally very good fertilisation rates and embryo quality.  So after 6 BFNs I finally gave up on my own eggs and tried DE, because that was sure to work....HA, another BFN!  Anyway, in response to your question, 3 months is the perfect amount of time to take DHEA leading up to tx as it takes that long for your eggs to develop ready to be collected.


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## Hbkmorris

waikiki.. ha ha ha I tell you doctors don't know everything do they? Shocking though that you have had 5 BFN then changed to DE and still this cruel BFN.. Crazy. 

How can that be they we have good quality eggs and still no joy! I can't work it out.. We've run out of money again so now everythings on hold.. I can see me doing the FET (sure it won't work) and then leaving it all for a while as were £10k down with only 2 full cycles behind us.. You lot must of spent thousands & thousands.. 

x


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## Hbkmorris

Oh if I was to start taking DHEA would it affect FET? x


----------



## Winegum

Hello everyone 

*Billabong:* Lovely girl, please come and post and tell us how you are. You have kept very quiet. We are here for you whatever, you know that. Thanks for all the advice on DNA frag. 

*Pinkpixie:* So, which option are you going for in the end? You have battled hard to get what you want and I'm sorry your PCT aren't playing ball. Have a lovely time with your visitors.  

*vw22:* I hope you are still keeping an eye on us. My dh also had excellent DNA frag result and I was also a little bit hopeful that it would be bad. I love you expression "like hearding cats", i  t perfectly describes the admin we all have to do in order to bring everything together for our txs. I also like your "getting drunk always helps, but always getting drunk..."  I will miss your wise words! I think you have got very far down the line with your surrogacy journey - well done. It's obviously no mean feat. 

*Nordickat:* What have you done?  I hope you are OK in all senses. How's Oslo? It's rather filtered out of the news since all the looting in London. I agree with you on your reasons for the fabness of this thread. it is truly supportive in a way that only veterans can be, and great not to have to wade through text speak, I just can't read it! Yes- pregnancy is not a cure, you are absolutely right. I used to think it would be but now I know it won't be. It's all so complex and it makes me sad that IF veterans cannot enjoy a pregnancy like other ladies due to all the emotional turmoil  

*Wobs:* Yay! You made it. Did you enjoy your long weekend before you started prep for next term?  OK, we'll let you off that little bit of PMA, thanks for the warning though.  Welcome to the immunes zone - it really does feel like being on the other side. I hope you manage to decide how to tackle your issues. Was your NK assay high? 

*Mrs Rock:* Hello lovely, nice to hear from you briefly. Sorry you are still not sleeping - you're going to have to work on that so you have some reserves for Feb! Seriously though, must be tough feeling sick and tired. Glad you had a nice holiday. 

*Jbt:* You need a break! Sorry about all your non-IF health issues and hope you get them sorted soon. Been dying to hear what your career counselor says, sorry you still haven't been able to have an appointment. 

*Kitten:* Im with you on the hot holiday thing. It's a major bummer isn't it, that everything that will provide us with some comfort, we can't/shouldn't have! Enjoy your long weekend and dhs birthday celebrations. 

*JBox*: Oh sweetheart, I'm so sorry you are feeling the way you are, and others have offered you words of comfort and encouragement long before I had the time to get myself on here and do the same, but I will add a bit to what has already been said. Others have spoken from experience about the DE issue, so for me I can only imagine how I would feel. I guess you are going to have to accept that you will always have wobbles - it's one of those things that can seem perfectly concrete and normal one minute and totally surreal and mindblowing the next, as Waikiki demonstrated in her lovely post. Your doubts and fears are well founded but other's experiences prove that you have nothing to fear in terms of bonding and being a family. Everyone knows kids who look exactly like one parent, exactly like half of each parent and nothing like each parent. I am sure that when a parent looks at a donor conceived child they see some of themselves. This is your child. I think the shame and embarrassment comes form the fact that the wider public just don't know about the world of IF. IVF is bandied about as a one size fits all for all fertility treatment but most people don't know what is involved and it is all presented so simplistically. Also, we don't know what people's views are - some people are real social darwinists, some people are the "why don't you just adopt" brigade and so it goes on. We owe it to ourselves not to be affected by what we imagine are these people's views, mostly borne of ignorance. We owe it to ourselves to do what is right for us and our families at the exclusion of others. Now onto how you are feeling about actually being pg. Nordickat hit the nail on the head when she said that pregnancy is not a cure for IF. I used to think it was. In the early days when I hoped to get pg from my first IUI, I imagined seeing those two lines and being ecstatically happy and immediately thanking my lucky stars that I never had to attend the clinic again. 6 treatments later, I now know that if I see two lines, after a brief celebration, I will be frozen with fear, convinced I will lose the pregnancy, I will likely proceed in a bit of denial, almost tempting fate, feeling undeserving, in disbelief that after all these years.....I get it honey.  
*
Waikiki: *Lovely posts from you, and yes, you want a family, not just a baby - it is worth remebering that isn't it? I think that is why I'm not bothered by pregnant women but I find being around happy families (with kids of any age) so tough. 

*Han:* Why are you doing TEFL? (Teaching English as a Foreign Language for the person who asked) I did that straight after uni and taught in Turkey for 5 years. If the course is still the same as it was then, we won't be hearing from you for a month, it's mega intensive, I hope you enjoy it. Great advice dished out by you btw. 

*Hbk:* Hey newbie veteran barbie! Glad you've found us. I often wonder how many lurkers are out there and I'm glad you have made yourself known. You have had a tough time tx wise, and no funding - bummer. I hope by the time our daughters and nieces need IVF the rules have eased up and are more inline with NICE guidelines. Re DHEA, I would definitely ask your clinic because it can depend on your issues as to whether it will be good for you. I took it for my second IVF on the advice of a nurse at my clinic that it helped with egg quality, but you don't want it to be doing damage elsewhere. I've been advised not to take it for my third cycle.

I don't think I need to say more about why I love this thread really do I? It's just so nice to have somewhere to come and say what is in your heart but not worry about bringing other people down like you might do on a tx thread. You always get lots of good perspectives too. Mostly, it is fab beacuse we all feel a real sense of belonging. 

To the ladies chatting about "will I ever have a baby?" as I anticipate my next tx, I have actually started to think about what it means to be childless as opposed to having a childfree life. The latter I can deal with but I am beginning to feel myself getting upset at the thought of never doing all those things you do with kids and never seeing my dh doing daddy things. I have spent a bit of time with families lately and I find myself fighting back the tears in the car on the way home. I feel like I want and need to be more sociable but I feel so much better keeping away. 

AFM, I am back to square 1, well maybe 2. Me and dh have now had every test known to man and they have all come back normal. We had a consulatation at CRGH where we hope to cycle and the consultant said that if irregular periods and lack of ovulation was my only problem then he would have expected me to be pg by now, so we are "unexplained" - Yipee! Our first official diagnosis. He also told me I haven't got PCOS or PCO. (My ovaries have behaved a bit like PCO ladies but I don't have any of the classic symptoms. The funny thing is that my cycles are starting to be a bit more regular now and I put it down to the no sugar diet. I think any insulin resistance I had is sorting it self out). Anyway, lets add the immune tx into the mix - these results did show some potential issues, for which the treatment I have had has had absolutely no effect! In fact one thing has gone up when it was supposed to go down and one thing has gone down when it was supposed to go up. I was very disillusioned when I got my retest results but I am now reserving judgment until we see Dr G on Monday. That's what I meant when I said immunes tx was trial and error. I am obviously immune to the tx that was advised. We are keen to cycle soon, so any further immune tx will have to be quick, but of course it won't be cheap - and we have already spent thousands. I'm trying to forget about the money. I'm sure you can all empathise when I say that as I anticipate the next tx, you know, the one we are throwing everything at,  I am letting little thoughts of the potential for success creep into my mind, which are swiftly crushed by memories of our years of failure. On the positive side, the new clinic is doing things a lot differently from the old one...... Here we go again. 

When are we going to book a venue for our meet?  We could all do with a holiday couldn't we?

Love to you all (and lurkers, I see ya!)
Winegum x


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## honeyz

Hi everyone,sorry I cannot do personals as, I havnt really kept with with everyones story so far   
But I do hope that what ever stage of tx you are at,u find success.
Wine gum I find your post really interesting re doing every test knwn to man.
I for the past 2 years hav ummed and arred about doing the immune testing and in the mean time had a few failed ivf's.
So last month I thought right enough is enough and went and got the immune tests done. I honestly started to get a bit excited that this time,they will find out what is wrong with me and my next ivf might,just might be a success  
But my results have come back normal, so where does that leave me? I mean dh sperm quality, check. My hormones Check, my immunes Check, periods,check,dq alpha check. so what is wrong? I have had so many cycles and been labelled unexplained. The only thing left will b the uterine biopsy,I will do that,but what if that comes back normal?
I will have to do another ivf with no extra drugs. Which hasnt worked the past 4 times for me anyway  
Is there anyone else in this situation? Most of the time I read that women who have immune tests done 9 out of 10 something shows up in their results.
I am feeling a bit disheartned, even though ofcourse I knw it is ultimately in God's hands. I guess I am just having a downer of a day and somehow writing it all down on ff helps somewhat.


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## Winegum

Honeyz: Welcome to the thread.  I don't know if its better to have nothing wrong  or something wrong.  I was going to suggest you change clinics but I see you are already at one of the best.  The only thing I can think of that you haven't mentioned is thorough infection screening fir you and dh: mycoplasma, ureaplasma, chlamydia in menstrual blood etc (controversial but see thread on Greece board to help you decide). Although uterine biopsy will probably do that.  It's very frustrating being unexplained and being told "just keep trying, you are doing all you can".  I think 9/10 people who have immune tests have something show up, but it isn't necessarily "the reason", just something that might help.  I'm beginning to wish I hadn't bothered with immunes because I find it difficult dealing with 2 different ideas ie that it does work and that it doesn't work!  All the best with your next tx.


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## Nordickat

Winegum - I love your posts. I saw you had posted but saved it until I had a glass of wine in my hand this evening    I am trying to not think about what a childless future really means. While I am on holiday having fun I can think being childfree is OK and I´m happy tp stop tx. But holidays are only 5 weeks a year and once I´m back ito the real world a childless future fills me with so many emotions that I don´t like and don´t want to analyse just now. I´m sorry the reality is hitting home for you too but like you said, its a new clinic so who knows ...........


Norway is sort of returning to normality. Lots more remembrance services this week because its the end of the holidays but generally its OK. We do all know somebody who is directly affected though. My neighbour, who is looking a much smaller man than a month ago, is working with the Utøya survivors and its taking its toll on him I think. 


As for my illegal activities, I don´t want to go public until its all over - paranoia no doubt lol. Its a serious crime but a stupid law although I´m not sure thats a good enough defence. Thankfully my shrink and Dr will both support me since it all happened shortly before my breakdown but I´m so upset about the fact I have to share my secrets with the police and maybe even courts .......... thats the bit I dread.


HBK - I wouldn´t take DHEA until after your FET ....... hopefully you won´t need it   


Honeyz - I think winegum might be right in that infection tests are something you should look at. Relative to the other immunes investigations its a cheap test and the treatment is cheap too and might turn something up. I hope coming and venting helped a little.


Billabong - where are you?  hoping you are ok.


 to the rest of the pose.
Katxxx


PS. You just name a time and a place and I´ll be booking my flights in a flash


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## honeyz

Hi winegum and nordikat
Thnx for ur replies
Yeah its all hitting home for me too  
Iv had the : mycoplasma, ureaplasma and they came out fine and im pretty sure I dnt have chlamydia either.
[/size]But I will tell Dr g to chek when I get the biospy done.


Wine gum in sept this is gona be my first ivf at the argc so am hoping they can work their magic on a very hard case like me. I just have accept that it may never happen   All is in the hands of God
Nordickat sorry to hear about your situation in Norway it was all so unbelievably sad and I hope you sort out what ever your going through with the court.
and yeh Winegum u hit the nail on the head,this immune stuff that might work or might not work,whats tht all about? Thats y its hard to get your head around it all. But I guess I am still glad I done them as atleast if nothing works out in the end,I can look bak with no regrets so to speak, that should I have jsut had them done,what if they found something and it may have worked?
I find that the ladies that the immune tx works for,feel so strongly about it that it convinces you to give it a go. Mind you if it worked for me I wuld prob go on about it to other poor ladies trying. I think we are so intent and persistent it trying to get to our goal, that even if we do not necessary believe something to be true, or can afford it, just to make sure you have every thing covered we go along with everyting that we hear. Ie brazil nuts pinapple juice, diet ,vits, immunes and on and on and on it never ends does it?


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## billabong

Hello ladies

I am sorry I haven't been on but I have been keeping up.   I am just so scared at the minute. As you know I had a level of 29 on OTD. Well my levels have been going up. I have had lots of blood tests and now I have been booked in for a 6 week 2day scan to see if we can see anything? I have managed to get to past 6 weeks before and have seen my little bundle but no heart beat   just so scared of it happening again. I know it can happen and has to women that have had low levels..but am I that lucky? After all us ladies have been through I think I have to be realistic of the odds...I am praying and hoping that I could be one of "those" ladies though ??

Sorry for no personals, I hope you understand. I will be back on to let you know after Thursday. Love to Winegum, kitten, wobs, Nordikat, Mrs Rock, Jtb, Jbox, Wakiki, Han, Pinkpixie, Jamaica, hbkmorris and anyone I have missed xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## kirsty5

Hi ladies

Hope you don't mind me posting on here as I'm a bit premature but I know really. Just had 3rd cycle and boobs stopped hurting on fri and then had a bit of bleeding last night. This is exactly what happened on the last cycle so will find out for sure on tuesday. 

But I'd like some advice please - we're going to change clinic (maybe lister as I'm a poor responder, or maybe care sheffield as its local) but wondered if anyone had any advice on more tests for dp's sperm. He has obstructive azoospermia and a urologist gave 30% chance of fixing it so went to ivf (looks like we would have needed it anyway cos of me). He's had karotype, chromosome tests etc done and all fine. We've had good fert before but only 3 out of 9 this time so either crap eggs or crap sperm (but was frozen and got decent fert with it last time). Can't do sperm dna as we have no sperm without a pesa and want to use fresh on the next cycle. Also sp doesn't know if he wants to know results of fragmentation test and don't think anything can be done about it?? Would seeing mr ramsey help?? What else could he do for us?? Any other ideas ladies? Think I will go on dhea but any other suggestions would be great. 

Sorry we're all here, its just not fair. 

Billabong, just saw your post on jessops thread then here! A cautious congrats love, everything crossed for you. X

Thank you ladies. Xxx


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## billabong

A big big welcome Kirsty!
I am sorry you are feeling low, lets hope Tues brings you a little hope.
This thread is great, the ladies on here are all lovely and totally understand where you are coming from. I do love my local thread but it is difficult sometimes as you always get a lot of first timers that get BFPs and I think that it is difficult for them to understand truly the dissapointment we feel sometimes...not to say no one gets a positive on here because since I have been here we have had a few. It proves that sometimes it does take time to get there. 
It can get quiet on here sometimes and there is the time difference as some of the ladies on here live all around the world. I am sure these ladies will be able to answer some of your questions.    xxxxx

Ps My DH has had DNA fragmentation test done and it can be improved with supplements, also if they extract it directly and then when in the lab the embryologist can prepare the sperm to give you a better sample.


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## kirsty5

billabong, thanks for the welcome love. i also love the local thread but i know what you mean - the title of this thread grabbed me "no pma advice required"!!!! sometimes pma doesn't cut it does it? i think with regards to the dna fragmentation test we'll ask them to do it when they retrieve sperm for the next cycle just so we know. i know it won't help with that cycle but i'd rather use fresh than frozen next time round as we've done the last 2 with frozen. then at least the info will help us with the cycle after that if needs be. 

what supplements does/did your dp take? my dp is going to get the talk about supplements, drinking etc when (if??) our bfn is confirmed and i'm going to get him on something.


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## Nordickat

Billabong - thinking of  you and hoping hard     


Kirsty - I can´t help with the sperm advice really as we haev swtiched to donor sperm now, but I wanted to welcome you on board


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## billabong

Kirsty- The name is good isn't it. I forgot who actually came up with it as we have just recently changed it. Someone had a list of different Barbie names and meanings...they were quite funny, then this one seemed quite fitting. 
DH and I both take the Sanatogen (mother to be and Father to be) Once we had the results of his DNA test we heard that antioxidants help. So now I have the fridge stocked up with every type of berry drink there is   xxx


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## kirsty5

Nordikat, thank you for the welcome. X

Billabong, me and dp are on the same but I've been leaving it up to him to take them and he hasn't been so I'll be policing him now! I've just read that about antioxidents so will be taking a trip to the grocers tomorrow! It will be smoothie central in our house! X


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## parma violet

Hello ladies
I hope you don't mind me joining you. I have just found this thread and I can honestly say that reading through the posts has raised my spirits no end thank you!


I am on the 2WW testing on the 23rd having had 3 DE blasts transferred. This is my 7th cycle and it's the most negative I think I've felt since starting this whole thing.


I've had 2 pregnancies from my own eggs but neither worked out. I couldn't go through another failed pregnancy so decided to go the donor route. I had 3 tries in Spain but ran out of money so decided to go the the Ukraine at a third of the cost this is my 2nd go with them. THis is my first time using immune protocol.


Apparently I am an immune disaster. I went to doctor Grogy but got scared by humira and IVIG so tried Dr Ndweke at Care who suggested intralipids, clexane, and prednisolone this seemed less invasive route so I gave it a go.


I started early with the intralipids so I could be retested after 3 infusions. My tests came back and my Th1 had come down well but was still above normal levels 52/31 but my NKs had only come down 2 to 24 way above the 15 I needed. I asked to have IVIG but Dr Ndweke said it was no more effective than intralidids and to have 2 more infusions. So I did but I am not feeling confident, if 3 hadn't made any difference to my NKs I can't understand how 2 more can help.


I have no symptoms (got cramps and sore boobs with my 2 positives) and I am thinking about what to do next. Either trying again with Dr Gorgy or surrogacy in the Ukraine or adoption or living child free.


I know I should just wait it out and then pick myself up and then start thinking but my mind just won't rest, could be steroid induced. Doesn't help that DH left for Norway this morning leaving me to injections to my injections. I have gone on a gluten/dairy/sugar free diet and lost a stone meaning no fat around my middle to stab at, my stomach is black and blue.


well lovely ladies sorry this is so me me me, if I can help anyone with any info pls do let me know.


p
x


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## jamaicababytrying

Good Morning Ladies

Welcome Parma, Kristy and honeyz...

Sorry no advice on any immune stuff we don't do that here, to the extent you guys talk about 

Had a really horrible weekend... had a cousin here from England actually, she came with her "stepchildren" so I was with them a lot. Also had to spend time with one of her cousins who has 3 small kids one of which is a baby. It was so hard, I can't believe it. I used to get upset and envious of pregnant women now I get more upset around families wspecially those with young kids  It seems so unfair sometimes and then people don't understand the pain and disconnect you know. 

Anyway sorry to be so down in the dumps this morning I just can't bear this anymore truly... it's getting harder and it should be getting easier!

*Billabong* I continue to keep u in my thoughts my dear please keep us posted as to your progress   

*Kat* I hope you are alright with all that is going on with you 

*Han* what a gwaan girl, miss u but a know u lingering an yuh studyin! tek it easy yuh hear 

*Mrs Rock* u there, i hope you are also doing well

*vw* miss you too hon, hope all is well

*Wine* I do need a break in every sense of the word... I am going to attempt the career counsellor once again this week, but they are doing some work on the bathroom for FIL so I have to be around...

Hope everyone else is ok... btw guys I have started back my workout routine got a new wii fitness programme and it's great i am happy so until i get bored with this one i am doing well... also i am going to try a zumba class!

Have a great day ladies


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## Nordickat

Welcome parma violet   I hope you are about to put the final line in your signature and it says BFP. Just ask JBox about feeling negative and having no symptoms ......... she is now very much pg so don't give up hope just yet. And since you are far from out of the running yet, I refuse to comment on any of your future options and I'll sit here hoping your thoughts are irrelevant     . I got my BFN in May and I still have a bruised tummy from the heparin by the way   .

JBT     sorry you had such a rubbish weekend but I'm glad you are able to motivate yourself into some exercise - it'll help loads   

 to everyone else


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## jamaicababytrying

Hey ladies

Not feeling much better, but got even worse when i decided to get on the scale! I wonder if I lose lots of weight will I be successful in my next attempt?  

So how is everyone doing?


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## vw22

Girllllllllsssssssss!


I have been missing you all!


I posted two questions on the surrogacy board and got over 150 views and NO replies! How funny is that. Why would you read a posted question unless you didn't have some connection to it? Bizarre!


Anyway I don't give a rats a rse, I am just plodding along doing my own thing. Just thought I would have a quick catch up on here. So much chat its great. And Kat is right I only whizzed elsewhere for some similar souls to converse with but I wasn't leaving here because I ever felt uncomfortable.


I have no real great words of wisdom to answer anyones queries with and no more news to report on but will be back when I do. Love to all and JBox hang in there. What you are going through is an emotional rollercoaster, just be kind to your self.


Back later vx


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## jamaicababytrying

Hi ladies

VW that is bizarre, with so many views you would think at least one person would answer  it was nice hearing from you anyway, keep lurking and popping in from time to time...

So I asked my husband tonight if our upcoming FET does not work would he do another cycle, considering we can afford it... he didn't seem to positive, which i kind of expected he can't handle the emotional roller coaster
now my question is if he didn't have a child do you think he would be so apprehensive? i think not i think he would want to go on that roller coaster again    it"s very sad to know that his dream
of parenthood came through and it wasn't with me   

Anyway.....


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## Nordickat

JBT -   I'm sorry things just don't seem to brighten for you. As for your husband not being keen, it might have nothing to do with being a dad already. It is just as likely that he doesn't want to see you have to go through it again, maybe he just doesn't want to put you through all that stress and heartache. My DH would love to be a dad, but more than that he would love to have a happy wife and he would stop tx in a flash if I suggested it. He is doing it for me and I know he dreads every cycle and eveyr BFN. I think he is most likely just worried about you   

VW -   we missed you too. I'm sorry you have had no response on the surrogacy board. I bet they read your posts because they were nosey about a newbie but then couldn't answer. A bit sad they didn't stop and say 'hi' though. Anyway, useless as we are on the topic, you know where we are   

JBox - I hope you had a lovely weekend away   Fill me in please  .

My boss announced she was pg yesterday and I have the strangest feeling of betrayal - weird hey  . Her kids are older and she was married so in my head she wasn't having more so I was safe to share my story with her and was honest about my sick leave etc. Divorce and new boyfriend though and she is up the duff and now feel really uncomfortable about the fact she knows. I had a meeting with her today so opted to work from home to avoid it and now she has rescheduled it to tomorrow .......... do you think I can work from home for the next 6 months? Hopefully I just need a few days to get used to the idea, and hopefully she is sensitive enough to not bore me to death with it ........ or to develop a bump


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## Hbkmorris

Morning Muffins.

Sorry I've been a bit A-Wol for the past few days.. I'm trying to get my head around my life and IVF and I just can't work out what to do for the best!    

vw22.. It's crazy isn't it how so many wish to look but don't add any support or advise! I've had some very simular.. I think they see my name now and just sigh thinking "Oh not another one"! Funny and yet very annoying.

jamaicababytrying.. I know how your feeling as I too have a partner whom has two boys and when I ask him about this up and coming FET and where we go afterwards (I don't hold up much hope if my fresh blasts didn't work hows frozen going to) and he just said "We've already spent £10k and it's not worked, we don't have any more money for this". Well my face must of been a picture.. The anger was immense and although I know we can't afford anymore tx i've lost all hope in IVF, beliefs, PMA & us as a couple. I feel that we are now so far apart it's untrue. It's both of us that have the problems and I do keep thinking I wonder if I had someone elses sperm would make me pregs or is it really just a numbers game! Oh I don't know I'm sending myself crackers thinking so much. So your not alone chicken.. trust me I to have one at home!!   

Who mentioned weight loss?!?!?!? Well I've spoken to my Doctor, Nurse, Consultant and a dear friend who lives up north working within a NHS hospital that does IVF and they all tell me that as long as your healthy, eating a well balanced diet, drinking lots of water and maybe doing a bit of exercise it doesn't matter what your BMI is. They all say that the BMI is putting to many ladies under to much pressure and no matter what you are size, height, weight etc you can still be a healthy person so I really wouldn't worry about it. My cons actually said that my ICSI hasn't failed because i'm overweight it's just bad luck!! (i'm classed as obese according to BMI chart). 

That said I have joined a local leisure club for 6 weeks (special deal) and I started swimming last night and tonight i'm going to try aqua aerobics, more so to help me mentally and to loose the jelly fat on my legs and tummy.. I do feel that having 3 cycles in 6 months really has taken it's toll upon my over larged figure!!    

Nordickat.. I feel your pain too as I work with a girl who's 22 and 14 weeks preg (she only realised 2 weeks ago!) and another lady whom I'm actually quite close to and she's known everything since last December and she announced she was pregs only to me 3 weeks ago so no pressure at all! So dam unfair which is horrible as I am really happy fot them but I'm also very sad and hurt.. I know it's going to be christmas and next year when there all off it's going to kill me.

So my motto is to what I can afford and can do now and worry about my next step as and when I'm faced with options. For the time being I'm focused on FET in october (I hope) and then leave things till next year as we certainly can't afford another fresh cycle. 

As for why it's not working for us.. I'm guessing poor sperm, poor eggs and mix them together you've got a flat cake and no babies.. DAM

xxx


----------



## Nordickat

hbk - BMI is such as load of rubbish. My DH is obviously pretty dense (in so many ways   ) and is also obese but to get to the healthy range he would look like a skeleton. And me, I'm over 6 foot tall and I looked OK but I was classed as underweight. I have now eaten too many cookies, got myself a pot belly and some back chub and I am now in the healthy weight range when I am clearly less healthy than before   . You have inspired me ........ I'm off out to buy more cookies


----------



## Greeniebop is a mummy

Hi ladies, I was wondering if I could join you?

My name is Sarah and we got a BFN this morning on our third and final cycle using donor egg and donor sperm. Absolutely gutted as stupidly believed it had worked this time. As you can see from my profile, we went to Cyprus for treatment but are based in the UK. Feel so sad as this is final for us, we do have a plan though which is to go on a lovely holiday in oct half term and then look into adoption. I just never saw life turning out like this and to see my normally strong and 'stiff upper lip' hubby break down and cry this morning, broke my heart.

I hope this is the right place to post.

Sarah x


----------



## Nordickat

Sarah - this is very much the right place to come.     to both you and your DH. I'm so sorry for your BFN


----------



## Hbkmorris

Sarah I was on the August 2ww with you.. I'm so sorry muffin..  I too had a 3rd BFN and I feel your pain. We have one last shot at FET but if fresh didn't work why would FET so i'm silly to think FET's going to make the difference but this is our last hope and shot!

I like your plan, holiday sounds fab and above all your support for each other will help your adoption process and maybe somewhere along the line that's where we're we are all destined to be.

God Bless you xx


----------



## Mrs Rock

Ladies, I just have to chip in re FETs.  I have had 2 fresh cycles both BFN and 4 FETs, 2 of my FETs were BFP.  Don't give up on your frosties xx


----------



## pinkpixie

Just thought i would drop on and say hi to everyone not really in the right mental place to post anything usless at the moment
xx
h


----------



## honeyz

Oh sarah ur post made me cry, I knw how hard it is and when u hav to tell ur dh tht it is a negative again or in my case a trip from the ladies and him asking me whts wrong...   Its the worst part of this ivf journey in my opinion..I do not knw wht to say apart from we are here 4 u love..I am so glad tht u hav a holiday planned and then adoption route.  I pray it all works out for u.
take care
x


----------



## honeyz

WOw kitten thts FAB NEWZ and yeh it sure does giv hope.
Take it easy and ENJOY   
U must fill us all in wit wht if anyting u did differently?? were u on any immune meds? diet change? anyting?
Also wht symtoms did u hav pre bfp?


So nice to hear a happy story wishing u a healthy 9months ahead and healthy baby


----------



## honeyz

MUMS the WORD   


any symtoms pre bfp?


----------



## Mrs Rock

Kitten you haven't jinxed it WOW
and now I will ssssshhhhhhh!


----------



## honeyz

Its all in GOD'S timing...no u can not jinx it..There is really no such thing. what will be will be and I
 it all goes well.....
Me shush too


----------



## Nordickat

Oh Kitten, thats just the most lovely lovely news   . There is no such thing as jinxing. What is meant to be is meant to be, and you are meant to be a mummy   

I silent whoop whoop (to stop DH hearing) from me. Now you go and enjoy your tiny growing secret


----------



## pinkpixie

kitten thats wonderful news and just shows that anything is possible huge congratulations 
will shush about it now


----------



## Hbkmorris

Oh Kitten.. congrats..              I'm not known for being quiet so well done you. 

I love to hear of such wonderful news.. so uplifting.. although I can't conceive naturally due to tubes but how wonderful it must be.. 

Mrs Rock.. THANK YOU.. gosh you really have made me feel 100times better now. I think we will go for the FET but then leave it until we win the lottery! 

Take Care x


----------



## jamaicababytrying

I wanted to quickly come on and whisper to *kitten*  no jinxing here 

*HBK* thanks for your post really appreciate it  it's too hard... I too have run out of money and I am scared 1/2 to death my frosties won't warm up and grow  I had asked about the weight issue and I too have been eating better, exercising a little more and had stopped drinking alcohol but based on kittens news I think i will be downing those drinks 

*Kat* I know you are right, he does worry about me and my emotions more than anything else... I just get very sad/upset about the fact that he already has a child  I'm ashamed but it's how i feel...

At work now so it's a short one...

Welcome Sarah    will post later

Thanks again ladies for being there...


----------



## Winegum

O...M....G!!!!!!!!

Nuff said!


----------



## Winegum

Ha! I don't think so - although I am speechless, it's good that I'm not speaking, I'm writing 

*Kitten*, honey, that is just the best news possible, I'm so delighted for you that you got to see that line and those words 3+ weeks. Cherish that forever and use it to help you get though each day at a time. I'm literally sitting here grinning like a cheshire cat - one of us, another one of us veterans has got a bfp   

So, where are we gonna go to celebrate??

Big big love and mega congratulations kitten, we're with you all the way xxxx


----------



## Winegum

Just quickly.....

*Greeniebop:* Why does good news and bad news always come together on these threads? Obviously I don't wish the bad news on anyone but I'm so sorry it was you today. Welcome to the thread. Here you will find lots of absolutely lovely supportive funny genuine ladies and you can say whatever you like without upsetting anyone. The two worst days of my life have been the days I delivered IVF BFN news to my DH - seeing him in bits was seriously horrid. I'm sure we can all relate.

Everyone else, we've had another spurt of chat I see, I'm meant to be hoovering, and I've got to go out after that, so I can't stay for a long one right now but I love reading and will be around at the weekend. Just wanted to tell *NK* so she knows when to sit down with a gls of wine 

Viva the thread and all you lovely ladies xxxxx


----------



## kitten77

Hi everyone, sorry messed up thread, I had a horrible thought that one of my best friends may come on here as she used to as she had tx and has trouble concieving, she says she don't but really worried that she does.... I couldnt think of a worse friend that I could be if she ever saw my post. 

Hope that makes sense. And could I ask that no more posts abt my posts. Thanks. X


----------



## billabong

Hiya ladies!

Just a quick update, as you know my levels were only 29 on OTD. The levels did increase and catch up to what they should be, then came the long wait for the scan.   Well I asked to go in a day earlier (today 6weeks 1day). I was not keeping my hopes up...well we saw it ladies...we saw the heart beat. This has been out 12th TX and we have got to see a scan but never saw a heart beat before. I am so scared. They said they will scan every week to check...Wish I could be oblivious to everything that can go wrong and enjoy it but I am just praying it stays with us this time.   We will not be telling anyone for months but I wanted to share this with you.  

Kitten- I understand about not wanting to jinx yourself. I want to say a very quiet WOW   

Jamaica- I am sure your frosties will warm up nicely after all they will want some of that sun where you are.  

Pinkpixie- A big   for you

Greeniebop- This is such a difficult journey and I wish we didn't have to  go through it. You have a nice holiday and spend time with you and Dh, none of us knows what is around the corner, sending lots of  

hbk- Do not give up on FETs, studies have shown that if embies survive the thaw then the are in a higher category for success rates as they have proved to be that bit more stronger.  

Love to everyone else xxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Winegum

Fab news bilabong, so delighted for you. You have kept quiet and I can understand why but thanks for telling us.  Look at us go ladies!  Who's next?  I'm even wondering if it could be me! Ha ha.


----------



## kirsty5

Billabong, that is amazing news!!! Well done you. Keep us informed love. X


----------



## Hbkmorris

Morning ladies

Bilabong.. thank you for your FET info helps me loads and we have decided that we shall proceed with FET hopefully end of september. Congrats as your levels.. god bless you. 

Winegum.. Love the name love the sweet too! Hope your well and you finished your hoovering!! 

Quick question if I may.. I've had my level 1 bloods done at my GP's and she's told me they've all come back normal the only one i've not had done is the fasting one do you think this is ok to leave out or should I push to have it done? Also if the results have all come back normal do I still to go and have my level 2's done? I'm very confused!   

I guess i'm really trying to work out why my embies don't wish to implant and as Kitten has proven I think it all depends on when your body wants it all to happen until which point you just have to go through the motions.. I just wish I had a pot of gold to pay for it! 

Have a good day all x


----------



## Greeniebop is a mummy

Morning ladies,


well its day 2 of recovery and I think that I am doing better    still some    but we're getting there. I just wanted to thank you all for your welcomes.


hbkmorris - sorry to be meeting you again on this thread if you know what I mean. 


winegum - i think I may have met you on a previous thread. We had treatment last summer, dec and obviously now but I've also been on the devon thread?


kitten - hope you are taking care   


billabong - great news and all the best 


Yesterday was such a    day. Really felt like we hit rock bottom and for DH to break down completely and say that he desperately wanted to be a Dad, well I think what wasn't broken of my heart just shattered. we saw both sets of parents so got lots of   and there were lots of    but what is it that they say? ' crying is healing' so wow, I must be healing!!!! None of our friends knew although I think they all suspected. I text them all yesterday as couldn't face doing it face to face and they were all so lovely, difficult though as most of them have kids so what is there they can say thats going to make things any better. Nothing really,  but its good to have it out in the open and now they know we have closed this chapter it stops them all asking. I just want to move away from being pitied, I know they all talk about us as they feel sorry for us but I don't want my identity to be that of 'poor Sarah, she can't have children'. So now for the time being its time to focus on everything else. Our relationship has become even closer which is fantastic and hopefully its time for a promotion at work. I think we are going to put our house on the market as we have seen our dream house, its still a big house but hopefully one day we will still be able to fill it with a family but for the time being it could be the party house for our cats!!!!


I am now tidying my office as things have slipped a bit and I am pricing up holidays. I think we are going to go back to Jamaica where we had our honeymoon as the only 'holidays' we've had since getting married have been IVF trips to Cyprus.


Sorry for going on and on but I'll tell you what, this is certainly cheaper than therapy!!! I could still cry at the drop of a hat (and now the tears start) but I also know that we are going to get through this and hopefully a Social Worker will think we are the type of people who can adopt but thats something to think about another time, for now, I want to start enjoying life again. I want a hot body    and I want my life back!!!


Much love 


Sarah xxx


----------



## JBox

OMG, i am away for a few days, and i come back to a million posts, loads of newbies ( welcome welcome welcome, sorry for your reasons for being here, but you are defo in the right place) and some pretty damn fantastic news... Altho i am confused, coz i think there is a post missing - (was it deleted) but i am reading between the lines and i hope i am guessing right and OMG i am ecstatic.... so no more say no more., shhhhh, no jinxing or speaking out of turn, but i really want to go and scream from the rooftops, i am so happy!!!!As for Billabong, that is just brilliant news too. Hope you are both feeling ok.

I have had some rocky days, but i did go away with dh for my yes(shhhhhh quiet voice....) 40th birthday  ! we went to a fantastic hotel in the desert 5 star treatment, with our own private plunge pool on our balcony. was fabulous.... 24 hours of pure luxury. so i didnt have to think about anything, which was great. i missed you girls tho.!

I am at work and surprisingly busy, so i wont do any personals, but will check in later and am looking forward to our winegums mega post.....

hope you are all ok

xxxx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

*Billabong*: great news hon, enjoy it no matter how early!  So happy for you   

*Greenie*:    I know you could use these. Where in Jamaica did you go on your honeymoon? I live in Jamaica but not in the tourist area... Where are you looking to go this trip? I strongly recommend Jewel Dunns River in Ocho Rios, their rates are good and it is a lovely property! please lemme know if you need any other recommendations or if you have somewhere in mind already tell me! maybe we can do FF meeting 

*JBox* nice to hear you had a fab vacay... happy happy 40th.. mine is next year and I want to do something fab too!

Having a crappy morning but hopefully it'll get better...

Hi to all the other ladies catch you later!


----------



## Han72

Hello  apologies for the lack of personals and a proper welcome for our newbies (  ) but......

BLIMEY! I turn my back for 2 seconds  ...   I can't do all the bells and whistles cos on the crackberry but YIIIIIPPPPEEEEEE!!!!!! OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I am sure that if you all look out of the window wherever in the world you are right now, you'll be able to see my smile   

Love and hugs sticky vibes to  all!   

xxx


----------



## Winegum

Greeniebop: I knew I had met you before - of course, the Devon board.  I haven't even lurked there for ages.  Where are you in Devon? I'm up north near Barnstaple.  Big hugs coming your way.  You've gad such a difficult two days but you are already looking forward and I hope you will stick around to share the journey with us.

So, jbt, looks like we may as well have our meet in Jamaica if GBop is going on holiday there anyway!

Love to everyone xxx


----------



## jamaicababytrying

I agree winegum!


----------



## Greeniebop is a mummy

I'm in Barnstaple winegum, small world!!

What is the weather like in Jamaica in October? We went to sandals in ocho rios for our honeymoon in august. Not sure where we'll end up for hols, poss Mexico, I've put DH on the case!

Well it's nearly the weekend thank goodness, we're off to see the inbetweener movie tomorrow night, that should get us laughing again! 

Hope you are all doing ok x


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Hey Greenie

The weather is unpredictable in October, near the end of hurricane season... but historically we get our hurricanes in september... so it's still pretty hot and humid in October...oh Sandals Ocho Rios not a bad property... well if you do come this way lemme know where or if you need recommendations....

Morning All! had a really bad night last night, really weird dream about a little boy I absolutely fell in love with.. the cutest thing I just wanted to take him home.. anyway i woke up in a really bad mood...

Hope you all have a wonderful day!


----------



## wobs

Hi ladies

Been away on hols.... Had a lovely relaxing time.

And back to lots of posts - its been busy, with lots of nice news too     

hi to the new ladies.

   to those needing it

Had my Chicago immunes done with the ARGC - and 1 level has come back v v high - can cause implanation failure and early miscarriage (wish I'd had it tested earlier)....the suggested drug I take it humira - and frankly DH & I are less than keen having read up on the long term side effects.  Its so hard isn't it - if we KNEW that this was the reason I'd take it - but I have lost faith in the process/the professionals so much (so much seems to be just luck) that sometimes you are not sure what to do for the best. 
Anyone on here taken humira?
Sounds like they will also want to take do IVIG - even less keen on that one!!!
Oh dear....

Anyway enough from me.  2 weeks left of school hols.  Will try and be good and catch up on personals in that time!!!
bye for now
Wobs


----------



## JBox

Hi Girls. 

How you all doing? hope you are having a nice weekend. 

Sorry for the me me me post (again!) but i have to jsut get this out. Kat and i have been pming so she knows most of this, but i am worriEd, my DH keeps telling me to chill out, its nothing, but i cant help but think the worst. 

I went for standard blood tests back in june (in the early weeks of my pregnancy), and the results came back.Noone noticed or said anything was weird, so I carried on as per norm and didnt question anything. I repeated the bloods ( this is a v neurotic country and once pg, they do take blood test and scans every other week) in July and my GP called to say that the results were weird, and to repeat them the next day, which i did, the results came back exactly the same. 

She said she thought there might have been a mistake in the lab, and to do them again a few days later, which i did do - same results. She was now a bit freaked out and sent me to the hemotology lab in the hospital to do them, where the blood is sent to the lab and the results come back within 2 hours. Went last weds - results the same. Had meeting with a hemotologist specialist, ( lovely lady) who said that she thought i might need to a  bone marrow biopsy as they couldnt understand why my results were so crap. Basically my white blood cells are lower than the lowest point. So she told me to come back today ( now 5th time doing bloods) and re-test, I went this am, the results are the same.... She just called me now and told me that she discussed me with a team of hemotologists in the hospital and before doing a bone marrow biopsy, they want to wait til next sunday and see if my results change, so i have to RE TEST next sunday, a week from today. 

So i asked her, what are you worried it could be, what does it mean a low white blood cells count? and she said, it could mean a number of things, either you are autoimmune surpressed, i e you dont have an immune system, and that can be very dangerous if you catch something like a cold or a virus as you wont be able to fight it off and it could become fatal ( great!) or it could be a hemotological disorder like aplastic anemaia.... obviously i have spent the past hour researching this on the net, and i dont like what i see there! but then she said i dont want to speculate until we know for sure... 

She said that its not affecting the baby and that the pregnancy is fine, but that if my results are still bad next week then they will have to find out whats affecting it and treat it....My gynae doenst seem to worried, and told me to forget about it and retest in a couple of months, but he said that thsi wont affect the pregnancy....

If its an autoimmune supressed thing, could it be down to the drugs i was taking after doing the level 1 and 2 tests at gorgy? i never took more than prednisone and progynova and clexane, i didnt do intralipids, ivig or humira but i think they were to surpress immune no? i did tell the hemotologist but she said they would actually do the opposite to my blood results. but i am not sure she understood what i was taking the drugs for.

i am totally freaked. 
my dh is telling me to chill
i am trying to but i am also pretty stressed out

this is a massive wake up call to everything, and i just want baby to be healthy, everything else is irrelevant, ill deal with me after....

sorry for the outpouring!


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Awww Hon I agree with hubby as hard as it is try to relax, if the docs say the pregnancy is fine then it's fine... I can understand your worry but worrying will not make things better often times it makes it worse. I say wait till you retest next week and see the results, if it is the same and they think they can manage it by drugs that won't affect the baby then you will be fine. But hon as my husband always says don't worry till you have something to worry about, cross that bridge when you reach it. Just hope for the best... I am sorry i can't be more helpful. To be honest I am a worrier too but sometimes we have to just stop and take the advice of the doctors and move on. Sounds hard but look you've come this far and you have overcome a lot of obstacles and disappointments and now you have a chance to fulfill your dream so think of only positive outcomes and I will keep you in my prayers    

Hey everyone went to my friends 5year old birthday party yesterday just could not manage to stay longer than 1/2 hour... she is a great friend to me so she understood, i wasn;t going to go but i had to at least show my face for her... it really was tough though and i am not sure i can do it again. I don't want to feel this way but it is getting harder and harder!

FIL moves in soon and the bathroom is almost ready, now my stupid stove is on it's last lap so have to go look for one shshsh does it never end. With all this i may really not be able to afford the FET this year and that is very very upsettting to me even though hubby says not to worry, i can't help but to worry


----------



## pinkpixie

Jbox     sounds scary i know this might be a daft question but have they tested this before you were preganat at all is it possible that is just what your blood levels areIt sounds as thought they arent worried about the baby so please try not to worry about that i know that is easier said than done.  


JBT well done on going to the party cant have been easy i know it never is my friend has just had her second and still need to go and visit them.  I always find things go wrong at once happy stove shopping   .  


Greeniebop we went to see inbetweeners the other day thought it was funny very easy watching and just what me and DH needed.  I actually went to malia for an 18-30's hol many many years ago!!!  Hope you are feeling better.


hi to everyone else


AFM- DH went into hospital on wed for an op on his arm so he is laid up at the moment in fact it is like having a big baby at home with me    having to do everything round the house and most things for him.  Have had a few days off work but back tomorrow    have been really naughty with the eating and exercise so need to get started again have ordered an exercise thing for the PS3 so will see what thats like.


xxx
h


----------



## kitten77

Jbox - i agree, if they say that nothing wrong with baby then try not to worry.....but as others said easier said than done!!!!! once you have a worry in there it will not shift! like pixie said, were you tested before hand? and to be honest they keep saying re-test re-test all the time so it dont seem that they are worrying about it....?  hope you get it sorted and so you can enjoy baby, always something to worry about!!! arggh.

JBT - well done on the party, and your friend understood, just gets to you dont it, all these kiddies parties just sort of rubs it in your face that you dont have one.   

pixie - hahaha, men are like big babies arnt they! bless em, hope he feels better soon. 

wobs - i cant help on the immunes im afraid i dont know much about them.  how about going on the immunes thread, i know the questions and answers on there tell you alot and you may be able to get some personal views on it?

Green - i wanna see inbetweeners, looks really funny.....or for the people whos seen it, are all the funny bits all the clips they show to advertise the film.....that usually happens!

winegum, han, morris and everyone else ive missed - big hugs and hello - cant believe its monday again already!!!!!


----------



## Juls78

Ladies- sorry to butt in here but i have been asked to tiday up this section of the website and as i am new to this area i was wondering if you could help me. 

The name of this board is a bit confusing- what does veteran barbies stand for? is this a long term chat board now- ie. do newbies read and post on here or are you all old friends?

if you are all old friends maybe we chould move this to the longrterm chat boards. If it is an ongoing board supporting negative cycles maybe we should rename it so newbies know what it is all about- name suggestions also welcome .


julsxx


----------



## Nordickat

Juls - you certainly drew the short straw   

I think its important that this thread stays here. Some of us have been chatting a while but new ladies join us often, 2 new veterans have joined us in the last couple of weeks. Its a thread for veteran tx'ers and all of us have had way more than the average 3 BFNs and some of us are going for record breaking double figures. The feelings after BFN #6 are very different to those ater BFN #1 and for me it helps to have people who understand what its like to have to consider that it might never work rather than just need a big of a boost and 'oh well, try again next time.' 

We have all outgrown the good old PMA and know its takes more than that and its good to know we can come here and get more than the usual 'next time is your time' platitudes.

New name - 'Veteran TX'ers - no PMA advice required thanks!'. Does that still include those of us that move to adoption/surrogacy? I guess so, we will still be veteran TX'ers even if we move to the next stage won't we? That or we dig out the Barbies page and add it to the front page? Hopefully there is no rush Juls and you can wait for other suggestions too?

Love to all of the veterans   Katxxx


----------



## Juls78

no problem nordicat- i like your idea of the name- i just have no idea what the barbies stood for? 

No problem keeping it here at all just need to make sure people who need your support know its here. Thanks for the help will wait to see if new suggestions arise. Will hope to make changes on weds.

julsxx


----------



## kitten77

hi juls!

agree with Kat, i started this thread after my 6th filed tx and wanted to get my feelings down about it.  we have newbies joining all the time (unfortunatly) and as kat said the 5th, 6th, 7th or 12th fail is soooo much different to the 'pick yourself up and try again' attitude most threads have.  

Veterans needs to be in the title somewhere so people know its for 'long timers' - or long timers i suppose in title.  i agree i think it needs to be kept here in the negative cycle bit as this is where you go when have a negative and we want to be here for everyone who needs us.  

anybody is welcome on this thread.....cept leave the PMA at the door!!!!


----------



## Nordickat

'Leave the PMA a the door' .......  that really tickled me Kitten as thats how I feel at the moment   

Was it Han that pasted in the Barbie stuff? Maybe that should be on our first page to everyone joins us with a smile on their faces even on the bad days.


----------



## wobs

Hi ladies

Jbox - sorry to hear you are having a tough time with all the blood tests.  I agree it does sounds scary - but the doctor says the baby is ok so try not to stress.  And at least they are re-testing to check everything out thoroughly.   

Re: name of the thread - agree with the veteran bit - would putting something in brackets (more than x BFNs) help to make it clearer?

hi everyone else
Wobs


----------



## jamaicababytrying

Morning ladies

I agree with Kat about the thread, as for the name maybe Veteran TX Barbies - No PMA advice required and then put the section about the Barbies on the front page (that's a good idea)

We welcome all newcomers and yes as the more negatives appear the emotions become different but a negative is a negative and it hurts just as bad, it makes you feel less of a woman and sometimes we just need an eye to read or an ear to listen... 

JBox I hope you are feeling a little better this morning   

Han I hope your studying is going ok and Kat u good girl? 

Billabong how are you doing?

The party was harder than I had expected and trust me i won't be doing another one of those anytime soon.

Howdie Mrs Rock, pixie, wobs, wine, kitten, geenie, hbk... sorry if i missed anyone... anybody been successful in the exercise department I am trying but finding it extremely difficult to keep up. I get so bored and I don't know what else to do cause i need to bring my pressure down before we go into the FET hopefully Oct./Nov. HELP!


----------



## Juls78

Ladies i am still struggling to understand the barbies part of the title. Am i missing something? is it really relevent?

julsxx


----------



## Winegum

*Juls:* The original name of the thread was "6th failed cycle - Is there something I'm doing wrong?". The thread quickly attracted a lot of posters, most of whom have become regulars. We decided that we had "done nothing wrong" so should maybe change our name to reflect the experiences and attitudes of the posters. Han posted a funny article about a new range of IVF barbie dolls and what they were like: IVF newbie barbie was one, IVF veteran barbie was another. We all identified with the description of IVF veteran barbie, so the name stuck. I think it was Han's intention to post the article on the front page of the "part 2" of the thread to let potential posters in on the joke. As it stands, I can see how the thread name could be a bit exclusive to potential new posters, and it's true that anyone lurking would know that we don't do PMA or platitudes. I guess we could drop the barbie, and the PMS bit. All of us are long term TTC, all of us have had multiple failures, all of us are trying one last thing, all of us are throwing everything at our last tx, all of us have diminished hope, all of us are overly familiar with the rollercoaster that is IF, some of us have even got lucky! I think the word veterans is a good one because it encompasses the long-termness of everything and the fact that we are battle weary and our experiences have made us wise beyond our years. How about "BFN Veterans' Club " or "TX Veterans' Club", or even something like The Last Chance Club. I agree with the others that we need to stay here in Negative Cycle and be available to the ever increasing number of ladies who need to be in the company of other ladies who have suffered multiple failures. We are buddies now, but we have only just started so I think it is vital that we are not tucked away in Long tern Chat Buddies, because that is not who were are. Maybe we could even be pinned?? I hope this helps.


----------



## Nordickat

´BFN Veterans Club´is good. I imagine the current name might make us seem a bit exclusive and there might be some lurkers out there too nervous to post because they don´t get the joke. I hate that when I see it on other boards - threads I like to post on but I´m too shy to try and join. Next week I´ll go through the thread and find which page the barbies text is on so maybe Juls can put it on the front page   . It is funny, but I agree we should maybe get rid of it from the title so that anyone in need feels they can join us.


Dearest lurkers  - we are not exclusive group at all and there is no secret joke that you are missing and you are more than welcome to come and join us. Of course if you feel more comfortable just lurking and reading thats fine too and I hope you identify with our smiles as often as you do our tears   


 Katxxx


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## wobs

JBT - re the exercise....well I may be onto something...

I have got myself swimming membership of the local pool - it costs me money therefore I will go!!  Mind you I only have to swim 5 times a month to make it cheaper but still.... So far going most days - but it is the summer hols for me so easy at the moment.  Then got an exercise thing for the play station - only just got it but it seems good.  I don't have to go out to do it and I can follow what i am doing on the screen.  
I do have a reason though - i need to lower my oestrogen otherwise the ARGC won't start my treatment cycle - and I have read that exercise helps - so there is a reason behind it.  For all my other cycles I couldn't get the motivation but so far for me this is working.  A combination of the thought of wasting money (!!!) and having a concrete reason to exercise for me has helped.

bye for now
Wobs


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## kitten77

Bfn veterens club gets my vote to, I want all that need to post if want to and not feel left out a joke, thanks winegum for explaining how the name came abt. 

Kat.... Like you last sentence... Hugs to all.... Lurkers included!!! We are here if you need us, no one is not welcome. X


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## kitten77

Wobs... Wot fitness thing u got for playstation? Well done on the swimming, I couldn't do that


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## Juls78

ok how about this- renamed- bfn veterans club- No PMA advice required, thanks! 

i agree with you all and what a lovely supposrtive and welcoming bunch you are!! 

I wish you all the luck in the world!! you so deserve it!! (thats not pma is it)

i will lock this thread either tomorrow or weds and set up the new one here in negative cycles for you- will leave you a link too.

julsxx


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## wobs

Yep agree with BFN Veterans club too

Kitten - think its called Sports Active 2 - its got 3 motion sensors (2 for arms and one for leg) and one of the arm sensors is a heart rate monitor too.  I've set it to the easy level and its a 20 min workout 4 times a week.  Now that I should be able to make time for...well possibly!!!  
Swimming I love so its not a hardship for me.

Bye all
Wobs


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## Winegum

Do we need the "No PMA advice" bit?  I don't think so.  The simpler and shorter the better. It could still be a bit off-putting, like there are rules to the thread.  The PMA bit only came about through a general consensus that we like to be allowed to feel negative, and it was very much of the moment. As you have correctly surmised Juls, we do gentle encouragement and empathy as opposed to PMA!  
Looking forward to part 2 of this fab thread....whatever it's called    Too late to post now but have read back and made my notes, will be with you all shortly.  Big hugs to our bumps, recent BFPs and strugglers   Oh, and newbies and  lurkers


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## jamaicababytrying

Wobs that's the one i have for the wii (i think)... does it have a 6week challenge? that's what i am doing today was the only day i missed but i will catch it up tomorrow and wednesday... i started the challenge 2 weeks ago and i started on easy as well, but i am moving up to medium this week and next then to hard for the last 2 weeks (hopefully, that's my intention).

I like the new name as well...

I guess i will be calling my doc next week so we can start the ball rolling for FET in Oct.

Career counsellor on friday again hopefully, things aren't really going my way these past few weeks...


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## wobs

JBT - its a 9 week challenge I'm doing - and i'm going to keep it on easy all the way!!!     
Sounds like you're doing well.  Keep it up! 
Oct for FET - great.  Not long now.
Hope the career counsellor goes well

WG - yes I personally tend to agree about the PMA bit - its not that we don't want to encourage each other, but we are also allowed to come on here and be negative and not feel bad about it.

right I must stop FF-ing and get on!!!   

Wobs


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## Nordickat

'BFN Veterans Club' it is then   

I'm off for a few days now and then its my police interview on Tuesday. If I don't post again you can assume they don't have internet in prison ............ I keep pretending thats just a joke but I'm just not sure   

Take care all, 
Katxxx

PS. Maybe new thread, new start JBT and things might just turn a corner for you now.


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## JBox

Hi girls
Thanks for all the msgs. I have taken day off work and am hanging with my sister who is here on holiday so all is good. Not thinking about anything and just going to read chill and relax by the pool!
Juls as you have seen here are the most amazing group of women who unfortunately are going thru similar hard times. Even tho we don't send all the PMA that u might find on other threads, for me these women have been my crutch my support and my guidance for the past few months. Kitten started this thread with a question as to why her 6th tx failed and I think that attracted all of us who have had numerous failed cycles. We welcome any newbies who fall into that category (unfortunatley). I personally think veteran and no PMA should be in the title! noone wants to ostrasize (is that how u spell it - on crackberry so no check!) anyone. I spent hours on this site trying to find my place before coming accross this thread and its been a lifesaver for me!

Now just a quickie - JBT I hope ur feeling a bit better and not too stressed about ur impending FILs move in! I think ur v brave! Good to hear about all the exercise going on here - I have become an unhealthy over eating couch potato - the pounds have piled on and no clothes fit anymore, so well done to all of u exercise freaks!

Wobs Winegum KAt Mrs Rock Billabong Kitten Pixie VW if ur lurking, and all the other wonderful women who I haven't mentioned - have a good day and thanks for being there! 

Xxxxx


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## pinkpixie

Wobs DH has just informed me that my sports active has just arrived so will be trying it out when i get home tonight

Jbox gald you are taking some time to chill out

Kat    and good luck

JBT hope y ou see your career counsellor on fri and she helps

Billabong hope you are ok

Kitten what does it feel like to be the founder of this wonderful thread   

hi to everyone else
xx
h


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## kitten77

morning all! - hang on should i say afternoon, cant believe ive taken so long to check FF!!!!!! 

Pixie - i feel honoured that as the starter of this thread there are so many nice and wonderful people on here all here for each other in times of need and that this is a place that we can come all togehter and voice off no matter what your feelings or thoughts - i hope it goes on for a very very long time!

pixie and wobs - good on the sports active, you will have to tell me if its any good or if it works! 

JBT - hope all goes well fri

kat - good luck for tues, hope you dont need it tho!

hello to all others (including the lurkers....we know you are there!!!!)


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## billabong

Hiya everyone!

Just a me post for now. We had our 7 week scan today and to be honest we didn't get our hopes up. Totally shocked I am still Pg  
It is a little on the small side (3days behind) but that could be due to the slow start? Well the nurses are great and have said they don't mind scanning me every week. It's crazy all the staff even the ones we don't see know us and have sent well wishes, there was a new lady that popped in to wish us luck too. I personally think it is because we have been there for nearly 5 years without a break that they just want us gone   or that my file is so big it has started to give the nurses back ache   
The nurse was great and you could tell she didn't want us to get our hopes up just yet as she knows what we have been through. She honestly said that if we make it to 12weeks then we have a good chance...That is 5 weeks away and I just keep counting the hours    I just have that horrible feeling that we are not that lucky and this always happens to others..after all these years could it really be our time?

Thanks for your friendship and understanding and the bigest   to Winegum, kitten, Wobs, Nordikat, Mrs Rock, Jtb, Jbox, Vw22, Waikiki, Han, Pinkpixie, Jamaica, hbk, Greeniebap ( I think that is all of you) and anyone else lurking! xxxxxxxxxxxx

Ps I am ok with the new name, I guess our name may have put some people off thinking that it is an exclusive thread and not understanding the joke.  I have faith in what ever you choose!


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## jamaicababytrying

Oh Billabong that is great news, it is your time my dear   and have faith, not gonna preach i'm just happy for you... you deserve it... you can me post as much as you want we will always read along...

Wobs good for you 9 weeks huh, not sure i can manage the 6 but i am prodding along....

Kitten thanks

vw i hope you are lurking just wanted to say hi and hope you are doing fine

Kat good luck, i am sure everything will be ok... 


take care ladies


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## Togs

Hi kitten just read your thread, sorry about your latest bfn, it never gets any easier, I too have had 5 BFNS not sure what is going wrong, reading your signature I noticed you bleed before your test date, just a thought but were you on Gestone injections or cyclogest pessaries, as I bled a couple of times before OTD on cyclogest but never on Gestone. Might be worth mentioning to your consultant.


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## kitten77

morning all!

togs - i have pm-ed you.

be back later, busy busy at work!


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## pinkpixie

morning all

Just wanted to pick all your brains any ideas on how to get a hysterscopy done, my nice GP referred me to a consultant but he wouldnt consider it.  Am going to ask Care if they will do one but not sure if they do it as isnt on price list.  I jusy have a feeling that something is going on down there so to speak AF is not heavy but tends to be old blood and clots and pain and backache is getting worse each month (sorry for TMI) but noone seems to want to listen to my concerns
xx
h


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## billabong

Pinkpixie- I had alot of my tests done before I had IF treatment at my Hospitals MC Clinic, as I had had a few natural early MCs. Looking back now I guess I was lucky to have had most of the test done and on the NHS. As we had no luck and didn't find anything then we were refered to the IVF Clinic. Where do you live?  I am sure if you are at Care they should be able to advise you.   xxxx


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## honeyz

Hi there my Veteran Friends, Has anyone tried resveratrol /PYCNOGENOL or melatonin or apimist honey to improve egg quality?


I have just ordered all of the above cost me £100. I am already taking Vit D, Pregnecare preconception, fish oils and zinc I hope its not over Kill and I dnt end up with worse embies this time round   


Apperently one of the care drs is having lots of success with melatonin, I read tht on the fertilyzone forum if anyones interested.


Any experiences on the above would be much appreciated


Good luk to all
x


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## Juls78

Ok the time has come barbies. Hope you continue to find the thread supportive.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=270221.0

julsxx


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