# People referring to the donor as 'the father'!!



## VenusInFurs (Apr 6, 2010)

Hi laydees!!

It's been a long time since I posted on this part of the forum but an argument with my mother today has led me to come on here to find out about other peoples experiences.  Oh and to have a rant and rave about it as I'm seething!!

We've endured quite a few people referring to the donor as 'the father' and have sometimes corrected them and other times just rolled our eyes and put it down to their ignorance.  But, I never expected my mother to do it!!  She said it earlier in the week and I ignored it but when it happened again today I had to correct her and said 'Mam, he's not the father he's just a donor'.  I can put up with a slip of the tongue but she had the cheek to argue against me saying that 'of course he's the father'.  Instead of accepting how I felt about it we ended up having an argument which led to me hanging up coz I couldn't believe what I was hearing!!  She can be such a cow at times, especially when it comes to my partner!!  If I was in a straight relationship with a man and we needed to use donor sperm, nobody would call the donor a father!!  They'd accept that the male in the relationship is the father and that the donor is nothing more than a donor!  So, why are they so small minded when it comes to same sex couples!?

Anyway, I've now sent her an email saying that she should do some research on donor conceived children because as their grandmother she needs to understand what is and isn't acceptable.  Imagine if she said it in front of the boys!!!  And it's not just her.....other people are doing it and I'm sure that a certain 1 or 2 of them do it on purpose to get a rise out of us.  I'm not gonna react very kindly to anyone who interferes when the boys are here and tries to tell them that they have a father 'coz all children have a father' as was very rudely driven into me as a child by my friends nosey parker mothers (my mother brought me up as a single parent so should know better).

We've also had many people making stupid comments like 'what if they're black?'.  How am I meant to answer such a pathetic question!!?  So what if they are black?!!  Not that they will be, because we chose a donor that mostly resembled us physically.  Maybe they don't mean to be insulting but to me it sounds like they're saying we don't know where our children have come from!  Nevermind that they're planned and very much wanted (which is more than I can say for most of the children around here).  

I dunno if it's hormones or what but I'm ready to swing for the next person who insults us by making such stupid remarks!!!  And I'm sick of having to endure questions about how they were conceived.  I don't mind people being curious and asking the odd question - sometimes it's nice to raise awareness - but we're not doing this to educate people and some tend to think they have the right to interrogate us because we're different!  I don't ask how their children were conceived as it's none of my business....yet with straight couples, people automatically assume they're conceived naturally.  It's so damn rude!!

How are you lot coping with these kinda comments?  It can't just be us!!

Emma


----------



## Pinktink (Dec 17, 2008)

I know you probably don't want to hear from me but for what it's worth I never meant to cause drama before or make you not want to post in this area - if you'd rather I didnt reply to your posts then please say and I won't again.

A few people have referred to Stanley's donor as his father and it really annoys me - I don't mind a slip of the tongue as much but like you said Im sure some people do it on purpose.

Your mother should be supporting you. Maybe the donor conception network have some info for extended families? I hope she comes round and realises that she has upset you and why what she said was so unfair...

congratulations on your pregnancy btw    boys are amazing!


----------



## coweyes (Sep 4, 2008)

Hi there congratulations on your pg. I may not really have the right to comment as I am in a strait relationship but I think before I started down this infertility route I would  be confused and probably call the donor the father as well.  Not because I am being rude but just because I thought that was what u called it? 

I think regardless of who parents the child the fact is that u need a mans sperm to help the woman become pg and that man is normally called the father. When the situation is different such as yours people still presume the man providing the sperm is the father, eg the child has a father.  ESP the older generation that don't see the variations of families now a day. All I am saying is that it sounds like something that u r going to have to take the lead with.  If u set the example of what u want others to consider ur family as others should generally take suite. But like most things to do with the infertility game I don't think people naturally understand or r on the same wave length. Good luck and yet again big congratulations. X x


----------



## VEC (May 29, 2007)

Hi Venus

Our situation is a bit different to yours, in that my (male) DP and I used an egg donor.  BUT extraordinarily enough, despite the fact that I spent eight months getting fatter and fatter, and then giving birth, a couple of people have asked me about the "mother", meaning the egg donor.  

In both instances, it was pure ignorance, and although they were family (wife/girlfriend of two brothers), I let it go, as on each occasion my brothers corrected their partner.  I know that egg/sperm donation is an odd thing for some people to get their heads around, but I don't think it takes too much imagination to work out that calling a sperm donor the "father" is pretty inflammatory.  If I were in your position, I think I too would have found the insistence on the point the main thing that bothered me - and yes I am guessing that if you were in a m/f relationship, I'd imagine your mother would have corrected herself pretty quickly if she'd made that comment.

I was going to say the same as Pinktink and suggest you contact dcn to see if they have anything your mother could read.  She may take it more readily coming from an outsider (particularly the dcn whose remit is to act in the interests of children resulting from donor eggs/sperm).

How (or even if) you present information about your sperm donor to your children is absolutely a decision for you and your partner.  It is an absolutely fundamental issue.  Therefore, even if your mother does continue to consider the sperm donor as the father of your twins, I'd point out that how you bring up your twins is for you to decide, and that this is one issue where you will accept no compromise - the last thing you will want is to risk your mother talking in that vein once the twins are here.  She can think about the issue as she wishes, but it is quite acceptable for you to ask her to support your line on the issue when talking to others/the twins about the sperm donor.


Take care and YAY for twins

x


----------



## Battenberry (Mar 18, 2009)

Hi there,

I can sympathise as I had similar comments when I was pregnant about 'the father' I just used to correct people and say 'the donor' instead. I had one really upsetting comment when I was pregnant from a member of my family, on looking at a scan picture said 'well I suppose the baby looks like you, as we don't know what the father looks like to compare'. It really upset me, it just seemed so insensitive from a member of my own family who were meant to be supportive, pointin out they (and we) have no idea who the donor is. 

However, now she is here I can honestly say these comments bother me much less than when I was pregnant, if someone mentions the father I just reply using the word donor instead, and it actually doesn't bother me that much. My nephew (aged 5) asked the other day if Iris had a Daddy, and I said no she has 2 mummies and a kind man called a donor helped us, and he just accepted it and went off playing.  I wish the rest of he world was as simple!

It sounds like your mum doesn't understand how upsetting it is for you, I think others' suggestions of be DC network sounds like a good idea. I hope you can talk it through with her and she understands how important it is for you. 

As an aside I had a problem with my Mum calling DW her name when talking to Iris, rather than Mama, and had to have a Frank chat with her about it.  It's hard negotiating families isn't it?! Hope it all works out ok. 

Love B x


----------



## Han2275 (Oct 3, 2010)

Congrats on your pregnancy  

I think this is a tricky one for everyone as sometimes DP and I find ourselves calling our donor different names  . Sometimes he's just 'The donor' and sometimes he's 'Daddy donor'  . Now I know more about you from your post, if I referred to your donor like that then that would probably offend you so I guess sometimes we have to spell things out to other people. DP and I both work in the same hospital and some of the other nurses who don't really know us that well would sometimes refer to DS1 as my child and DS2 as DP's child. That really annoys me too but I guess 'our world' is a very strange world for some people. We have had to make it our business to find out about donors and ways to have kids without a male partner so I guess lots of people will be ignorant about it and not know what words to use. Personally, I love that people ask DP and I questions all the time and we are very open about everything we have been through to get our boys. It obviously totally clear to people that we have had to have a little help and I find that other people sort of understand how special our boys are once they know more about our journey  
Your situation with your Mum is a whole different story and you are certainly doing the right thing trying to make her understand. We had a situation like Berryboo with DP's Mum. She kept calling DP by her name when talking to DS1. I said something in the end and she was fine. It was just hard for them as our relationship was a shock initially ( I was a secret for 5 years!) and then they had no idea 2 women could have children so that news blew them away!! I think FIL hid in the shed for 3 days  .
The innocence of kids is the best tonic ever. DS1 is so proud of his Mum and Mam and soon puts the other kids at the childminder straight when the subject of daddies comes up  . The boys' childminder is wonderful. They have never been there on a Father's day card making day  , but we always get a Mum and Mam card on mother's day, and DP always gets a St Patrick's day card  .
I'm sure when your beautiful twins arrive that so many of these issues will not seem so important. Babies melt the hardest of hearts


----------



## VenusInFurs (Apr 6, 2010)

Hi everyone

I was in such a strop about all this yesterday but somehow it feels less important today.....and there's me telling everyone I haven't suffered with the hormones    

Thanks for all your replies.  It's good to read that it's not just us!  I'm usually able to let these things go over my head, which is why we haven't been too consistent with correcting people, but hearing it from my mother really upset me.  I sent her some information off the net and I think she realises how insensitive she was being.  It's been a long, hard journey getting her to accept Cerys even though she totally accepted my brother when he came out as a teenager.  Somehow it's different for me!?!  

Anyway, if she had called the donor 'the father' and then taken on board my views I would have been okay but she argued against me and that's what upset me the most.  My mother is only in her 40s so doesn't really have old fashioned views, and we've spoken about other peoples comments before so I really didn't expect it to come from her.  But I don't think she'll be doing it again!!

On the whole, people have been very supportive but quite a few silly comments have come our way lately and it's really got up my nose.

Han2275:  We used to like people asking us questions too but as time goes on I feel less and less like telling them our business as some of them can be that little bit too nosey.  How lovely that you've each carried one of the boys....I'd love for DP to become pregnant if we decide to have more but I think she'll need a lot of persuading      I had to laugh at your FIL hiding in the shed....DP was a secret for a year and my family made things very difficult for us for a long time (because I'd been married before we got together).  It was only a few weeks ago that we finally told my Nan about us so no more secrets for us   

Berryboo:  I'm going adopt your approach of simply correcting people with the word donor.  They'll soon get used to it.  I think my Nan might find it strange to refer to DP as Mama but we'll just correct her when it happens.  I can accept that she'll find it harder as she's of that older generation but hopefully she'll realise that DP is an equal parent.  Hopefully, I won't feel as insulted about it all once this pregnancy is over!!!  I'm having a rough time of it lately but the end is in sight!!

VEC:  I'm really suprised that people referred to the egg donor as 'the mother' when you so clearly carried and grew the babies.  I actually used that as an example to my mother last night.  I said that I was considering donating my eggs and that I wouldn't be 'the mother' to any resulting children and she wouldn't be their grandmother....she understood that bit.  I guess it is a minefield for people who have never had to go down this route.

Coweyes:  I can understand that people in general may make the mistake of calling the donor 'the father', that's why we've rarely corrected people, but my mother has been there all the way through the journey and this is something I'd actually spoken to her about in the past when others had made comments or called him the father.  It really wound me up as correcting her led to an argument and part of me wonders if it was another dig at DP.  I sent her some legal statements saying that children who are conceived through fertility clinics using donor sperm, who have a mother and a second female parent, do not also have a father.  I think I got my message across loud and clear and she has been okay today so I hope it never has to be brought up with her again.  Thanks for your congratulations   

Pinktink:  I'm also sorry for what happened before.  It was a long time ago and water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned.  I guess we don't realise just how stressful fertility tx is until we come out the other end.  Congratulations on your little boy....he's such a cutey!!!

Thanks everyone for your advice and best wishes.

Emma


----------



## coweyes (Sep 4, 2008)

VenusInFurs


I am glad your feeling better about it today.  Going down the tc route is so so difficult, i have to say that i always admire ladies and gents that go down this journey by them selves or as a gay/lesbian couple.  It has been so excruciatingly painful as a strait couple to handle infertility and then the social aspect on top, i admire the determination of others in less usual situations.  


My mum has been amazing through this journey but there have been a few occasions when i have been totally gobsmacked at the things she has said!  When considering using a donor egg she said "o what happens if they put in someone else's" i mean what the hell!!  She also said "why don't you just use a turkey baster"!!!!!! She knows that we have a selection of fertility issues so how that suddenly became the answer i have no idea!!  I think i kindly pointed out that the nhs would not be funding us for 2 x rounds of icsi if they thought a turkey baster would do the trick!!! O my days, families what are they like    xxxx


----------



## Han2275 (Oct 3, 2010)

And there's me thinking only us lesbians got all the 'helpful' turkey baster comments


----------



## coweyes (Sep 4, 2008)

ha ha nope we get them too!!!  least you don't get the "relax it will happen comments"    , god that a wind up. xxxx


----------



## welshginge (Jul 12, 2009)

VIF - congrats on the twins!!!! We also correct people by rephrasing to the word 'donor' which seems to be working at the moment. Your in Wales somewhere aren't you? I'm from south wales although don't live there anymore & find my town inc. my own family quite racist so I'm not surprised about the other comments. It seems to be acceptable somehow?! I'm always arguing with my parents about certain words but luckily not connected to our son but the people around him. If they EVER use the P word in front of him I'll go nuts!! 
Wow 8lb twins - I'd love to see a piccy of your bump. must be awesome!!!


----------



## VenusInFurs (Apr 6, 2010)

Oh heck....I think fertility treatment brings out some very funny  reactions in people whatever your journey!!  I don't think people really  know what they're saying until they've been corrected.  What your Mum  has said seems quite comical but I don't suppose it seemed very comical  when you were on the receiving end.  
  
I found our journey very stressful and very hard at times but ours was  fairly short compared to most and I feel very grateful that we were  successful on the 3rd IUI and didn't have to wait for IVF.  I've made  quite a few friends on FF and some are still going through the  rollercoaster of tx and I really feel for people who have to try so hard  and go through so much.  My endo was a bit of a problem but once that  was sorted we stood as good a chance as anyone - we just had the lack  of sperm!  So, for people who have actual fertility issues, I just can't  imagine the heartache involved.  I have a friend who is currently  stimming for her 5th cycle (3x IUI and 2x ICSI) and I soooooooooo hope  it works for her this time.  I feel so guilty sharing my pregnancy  experiences with her as it must be so hard for her to hear it.  I try to  remain as sensitive as possible but at the same time, I don't want to  shut her out when she seems so genuinely interested and pleased for us. 

Haha....nope we don't get the 'relax it'll happen' comments but we used to joke and tell people we've been trying and trying to make babies but it's just not working!!     

'Just go and have a one night stand' is another one that got up my nose!!   

I hope your tx is successful soon and that your Mum doesn't make any more turkey baster suggestions!!


----------



## VenusInFurs (Apr 6, 2010)

Welshginge:  I remember speaking to you a long time ago when I first joined the forum.  Yep, I know what you mean about the racist comments here.....we have a lot of small minded people here in the valleys!!  If you're different there's a name for you!!  I even get called a snob because I went to uni....WTF is that all about!!?  I'm not a snob at all....just wanted an excuse to get away from the valley heads for a while!  I've moved to DPs valley now and she won't move away from here so 

I take bump pics every 4wks and am overdue for my 34wk pic.....so if I can get DP to take one tonight I'll put it up tomorrow.  The bump is hanging very low now due to the weight - it is soooooo heavy as apparently there's 12lb of baby in there now....well they said 5lb 14oz each on Mon and they're gaining 1lb a fortnight!  I so hope they're overestimating these weights coz I'll be bed bound at this rate


----------



## VenusInFurs (Apr 6, 2010)

Just sharing my 34wk bump pic as promised......can't believe how low down it is, it must be due to the weight. And look at the state on my spine!! I still can't believe that our sons are in there!!


----------



## coweyes (Sep 4, 2008)

Wow that looks pretty painful! Comgratulations u must be so exited. X x


----------



## Han2275 (Oct 3, 2010)

WOW that is one amazing bump. You're right about your spine  . Osteopath on speed dial for you post delivery  . Will PM you tonight, just off to work


----------



## welshginge (Jul 12, 2009)

Wow & no stretchmarks - well done you!! Very best of luck! x


----------



## VenusInFurs (Apr 6, 2010)

I'm glad I have a CS for 38wks coz I don't think I could make it much further!  Can't believe the shape on my posture though!

Welshginge:  I thought I'd escaped the stretch marks but I have 2 big ones either side of the bump that seemed to come out overnight!!  Nevermind, they're tattoos of a special time (so I'm told)


----------



## lmb15 (Jun 12, 2009)

*Venus* - that's a mighty impressive bump!!! 2 babies at 8lb   !!! As for the "father" thing - we've had a few people ask "what does the dad look like?", to which i reply "the DONOR, as Isaac doesn't have a dad, is anonymous, so only know few things...". Nobody's made the same mistake twice  . I think people are sometimes just a bit confused about how to ask things/what people should be referred to as. Not everyone's as clued up as us lot! I hope the remainder of your pregnancy goes well. I bet you're both so excited about meeting your boys. Have you agreed on names yet, or are you still undecided? Me and Laura can't agree on any boys names and very few girls names!!

Lisa x


----------



## VenusInFurs (Apr 6, 2010)

Hi Lisa

Boys names are sooooo difficult!!  We had a few girls names....Maya Rose was our favourite.  But we've been really stuck with boys names.  We've decided on Leo and Ché.....we can't think of any back ups in case they don't look like a Leo or Ché!!

I really hope they've overestimated the weights!!  I don't mind having babies with good weights but I'm almost bed bound as it is and any more weight is surely gonna break my bones?!?    

Emma


----------



## BecsW (Jun 14, 2009)

Wow, congrats on your pregnancy, boys are great    Love your names too  

As for the daddy issue, I thought we were pretty sorted about that with both family and friends. Our situation is a bit different as our donor is DW's brother and we let people know this as it is not a taboo subject for us. But.....a few weekends ago we met up with DW's brother for the weekend and joined their mum and dad on the Sunday to celebrate Father's day with my FIL. We said Happy Father's Day to him and he said thank you very much etc but then to my shock and complete horror he said Happy Father's Day to DW's brother meaning-in relation to DW's and my son!!!   Everyone around the table looked completely horrified and very embarassed, not least my brother in law who said, no I just see myself as the biological parent and that is all. I am Jacob's uncle in my mind to which we heartily agreed. I also added that I see a father/ daddy as someone who is involved in a child's upbringing. FIL is quite absent minded and so Oh right, OK then so no arguments there but it was soooo uncomforatble and I am so glad Jacob was too little to understsand


----------



## VenusInFurs (Apr 6, 2010)

Becs:  OMG, that must've been a very awkward situation and good job Jacob wasn't at an age to be confused by it all.  FIL must've felt a bit silly for it too.  I'm glad everyone else understood though and were able to back you up.  Some people just don't think but when it's close family I think they should find out what's acceptable before they open their mouths!!

I felt terrible at the hospital last week when DP got talking to another twin mum and asked if the twins were natural or IVF.  I couldn't believe it and told her it's quite an intrusive question to ask.  I get asked it all the time by people who don't know we're gay....I don't mind at all as it gives me the chance to say that DP is part of it too...but other people might not like it.  Cerys felt really bad when I told her and felt even worse when she came across the subject in a twins book she's reading.  So, even we get things wrong!  

My step-dad came home from The Falklands last week and thought it was funny to ask me about 'the father'.  He's such a wind up and loves to see me bite but I just laughed it off.  Just glad that my mother has spoken to him about it so they both know what to expect now. 

Did you guys ever feel awkward for DP if strangers made a fuss of your pregnancy when DP is standing there and not realising that she's involved too?  A lot of the time DP and I will talk in a way that makes it obvious and they catch on or other times I'll introduce her as my partner...but when it doesn't feel quite right to mention it, I often feel bad for her as she's left on the sidelines.  She doesn't seem to mind but it sometimes makes me feel a little bad for her.


----------



## welshginge (Jul 12, 2009)

We get asked all the time 'who's the Mum?', my stock answer is 'we both are'. If we are in a medical situation I say 'we both are but I'm birth Mum'. I reckon you'll get lots of attention with twins so it's worth thinking about now. We get loads of attention as Seth is so small & people can't resist cooing over him. Sometimes, I purposefully don't answer questions so DW has to, that way she doesn't feel left out. 

Your dad sounds exactly like mine, although I think my Mum has warned him about inappropriate questions as he hasn't asked any! To say I'm shocked is an understatement. He knows I'm not afraid to tell him to f**k off anyway. Besides when people see the babies none of that stuff will be remotely important to them as they will fall in love with the boys!


----------



## VenusInFurs (Apr 6, 2010)

Only yesterday, we were chatting about what we'll say when people ask who the mum is!  We had a giggle at the confusion we're likely to come across when we say 'we both are'!  I can just imagine us carrying one baby each in the carriers/slings and telling people they're twins which will obviously beg the question "who's the mum"!  I think we'll allow them a bit of leeway on that one   

It's strange for me to have a dad to deal with as my mum brought me up as a single parent...they've been together 10yrs now though and he's great.  But he just loves it when I get all high pitched and defensive.....only for him to laugh at me as he's been winding me up all along!  Men hey!!  It doesn't help that he's English and full of Welsh jokes   

That's a good idea to let DW answer questions.  I'll have to do that a bit more....DP usually does all the talking with the docs and MWs etc but seems to leave the general public to me!!


----------



## BecsW (Jun 14, 2009)

We always say, 'we both are' when asked who the mum is but then I add, 'but I'm the birth mum' if I feel it's necessary. We also try to make it a bit obvious that we are together by how we chat etc.

Just thought of another weird family moment, Jacob was jabbering away as he does and his sound of the week at that time was da da da which he was very proud of and we encouraged as we do all his sounds, and completely out of the blue my mum said to him, 'you don't have a da da Jacob'. I was livid! For a start he wasn't talking about a daddy, he was just enjoying making a new sound and secondly, we wnat to be the ones to explain how he came to be to him in language that we think is appropriate. She hasn't said it agin so I think my look said it all


----------



## Han2275 (Oct 3, 2010)

I remember DS1 used to stand at the top of the stairs and shout 'Dad' all the time. Now DS2 shouts 'Da-Dee' throughout most mealtimes and 'Nan' is a favourite too. Everything but Mum or Mam  . I must admit DP and I both turn round and say 'you haven't got one'. It's become a bit of a family joke


----------



## Han2275 (Oct 3, 2010)

Well our 'No Daddy' family dynamics certainly helped last night. One of my best friends has just asked her husband to leave  . Her 4 year old DD is DS1's betrothed   and she came for a sleep over to give her Mum a bit of a break. She started off in the spare room but got all upset and started crying about her Daddy not being around. I know it's not the same as our boys aren't apart from someone they love, but she certainly got a lot of comfort when we discussed how DS1 and DS2 don't have a daddy living with them  . She thought it was great that she was just like DS1 now, and then promptly got into bed with him as she "needed to see his face all night"  . Thank god for his double bed and their pure innocence. Such a hard time for her, bless her


----------



## Hales :) (Mar 26, 2010)

You will certainly get a lot of attention walking around with twins  - and plenty will ask questions about the birth, which if DP isn't around I vary how I answer - If it's little old ladies I don't generally answer honestly. If I am honest, then I find I'm over explaining myself in the middle of a shopping centre - and sometimes I don't have the energy! Twins, btw, are a complete old lady magnet when out shopping!

The cleaner at work said to me this morning, I didn't know you had twins, how old are they? When I told her she said she hadn't even known I was pregnant - the cheek - I've seen her every working day for the past year - I know I'm overweight - but that takes the buscuit(!) 
She did look a little confused at my explanation hehe


----------



## VenusInFurs (Apr 6, 2010)

Hales:  I know what you mean when it comes to little old ladies.  They're all so chuffed for me when they see my bump and I tell them it's twins....I don't like to burst their bubble by saying I'm one of those lebanums!!


----------



## Han2275 (Oct 3, 2010)

VenusInFurs said:


> Hales: I know what you mean when it comes to little old ladies. They're all so chuffed for me when they see my bump and I tell them it's twins....I don't like to burst their bubble by saying I'm one of those lebanums!!


   Never heard that word before. Think I may have to steal that one from you


----------



## VenusInFurs (Apr 6, 2010)

I think it's a P take I got from Lilly Savage as a kid   

You know how old ladies like to leave the middle of words out when they're gossiping LOL!!


----------



## ameliacooper (Aug 12, 2007)

Interesting thread. I'm in a slightly different position a single mum and my donor was not anonymous.  I always knew his name and details etc and I have photos and began to refer to him as her daddy but always said that he doesn't live with us and that mummy looks after her - mainly so shed fit in.  The other day I showed her a picture of him and said this is the man who helped you get in my tummy (she's 3).  

It is a hard issue to explain to people re donor/father but I personally would never refer to an egg donor as the mother!


----------

