# need advice, please read urgent !!!!!!



## laraboo (Sep 9, 2005)

HI there can anybody tell me if they have had ivf and it was succesful with a high fsh. 14 an above
Im considering the donor egg option but before we embark on that wondered if they would use my own eggs with an fsh of 14.8 and my age 48. I know fsh is only part of the equation but because of my age will it be difficult to get good quality eggs 
I know nothing about ivf but thinking of going abroad, so just looking into it at the mo any advice would be really helpful 
thanks

Laraboo


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## Jo (Mar 22, 2002)

Hi
I am sure someone will come and answer your questions, I have never been abroad for tx but lots of girls on here have 

Just wanted to wish you luck in what ever you decide 

Love Jo
x x x


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## Kazzie (Aug 6, 2005)

Laraboo
try the Lister - I am 47 and still want to try with my own eggs too before going down the DE route - they will be very honest and probably try put you off  because they will not want to mislead you and they can only go on their figures.  I think, from memory, they quoted me approx 197 attempts at our age group over last 20 years with 0 live births - it's not that many women is it - about 10 each year? But I think they will still treat you. The Lister has a very good reputation ( a consultant at another fertility clinic said he thought very highly of the Lister)  If you want to PM me I could give you more info. 
good luck
Kazzie


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## Violet66 (Dec 28, 2007)

As Kazzie says the Lister are your best bet.

However, I think it's pretty unlikely given: 

1) your age 

2) your FSH levels - which are entirely in synch with your age - but still higher than the 12 baseline they like to work with. 

I think they will recommend donor eggs. Sorry hun ! x


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## Jo (Mar 22, 2002)

Kassie Good Luck with your tx, I really hope your dream comes true 

The Lister do have a good reputation, and if they are willing and you are willing, its worth ago 

Good Luck to you both  

Love Jo
x x x


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## laraboo (Sep 9, 2005)

Thanks all, for your replies I know its a long shot, but I may still want to try with my own eggs, if I get the chance, I think that because I had a baby at 44 naturally, that Im finding it hard to accept that my fertility as gone so to speak, I still think that im 'fertile'  as periods are normal, but obviously still have 48 yr old eggs.!! 

kassie I wil pm you later

regards and best wishes to you all

anne


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## Kazzie (Aug 6, 2005)

Thank you for that Jo
I think it's grasping at straws really.....but nothing to lose (a huge amount of money I don't have actually  )
The (absolutely lovely) consultant's face was a picture when I said I wanted to try with own eggs but he said If I know the statistics (0%) and _still _ want to try he will do all he can....so July is the month.
Then I will give up.
Good luck to everyone going through this - no-one can ever understand (unless you go through it yourself) what we have been through/are going through.. I expect one day there will be a film about a woman's journey through IVF - maybe featuring Fertility Friends! 
Kazzie


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi Anne,

It is a difficult question really.  To be brutally honest, there are no live births anywhere in the world using own eggs and ivf at age 48 (as far as I know, and I have been looking at this subject and fertility generally for the past few years).  There is one woman recorded in Japan to have had success at 47 and this is the oldest known birth via own egg ivf.  The best clinic in the world only has a handful of live births at 45 in its entire history.

That said, if you need to cycle once more with own eggs for closure before moving on - then that is totally understandable.  It will depend on whether a clinic will agree to you cycling for closure at your age - not sure, but certainly the Lister is more age friendly than most (so is the London Fertility Centre).  To be honest, they are more likely to encourage perhaps a stim cycle with sex or iui than ivf as the stats are so against you anyway. 

Certainly at 48 a natural pg is more likely than ivf and still very, very unlikely even though you gave birth at 44 (which is fantastic and why you have hope of course..).   There is a huge gap between age 44 and 48 though as I am sure you realise.

Regarding age - recent research by Cornell with women who had live births in 40s (up to age 45) showed that those that succeeded produced more than 5 oocytes and had all embryos replaced which is only possible abroad (optimum is considered 5 in another piece of research).  However, the miscarriage rate in this study was 85%

Another thing to bear in mind is that FSH is only part of the story.  You need to have your day 2/3 E2 measured in conjunction with your FSH as a high E2 level can actually suppress your FSH reading making it seem lower than it really is.  Bottom line is age as you know rather than FSH/E2/LH prolactin etc.

FSH is a useful tool but all it tells you is how you may respond to FSH stimulating meds in a cycle.  It gives you no information about the quality of your eggs and as you say, sadly at 48, you are likely to have a high number of abnormal eggs.  You also need to take into account your DH sperm etc. which will also contribute...

This is such a discouraging post, I'm sorry.. I just wanted to reply as I guess it is up to you to decide whether you want to just go for it for closure only and then move on (maybe to DE or maybe not depending on how you feel).

Just a note of caution!  Although DE levels the playing field for over 40s, it is still worth getting a move on at your age as all kinds of age related issues can affect DE - not least because it gets harder to find a clinic to cycle with etc.  Just to bear in mind.

Finally, I would urge you to make sure all your other testing is up to date as any issues apart from old eggs will impact on any cycle whether DE or not.  This would include checking DHs sperm, uterine issues like fibroids etc., thyroid, antithyroid antibodies, insulin resistance, bacterial infection, clotting issues and autoimmune issues.   Your GP can do some basic testing for many of these issues just to give you a fertility MOT.

Sorry for the long book.  It isn't my intention to completely put you off as I totally understand the need to find closure with own eggs.  

Best wishes to you,

Daisy
x


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## Pinkytails (Mar 2, 2008)

Hi Laraboo,

If you read my history you'll see that I have today abandoned a cycle of IVF with my own eggs.

I thought with my excellent FHS, previous live births and no symptoms of menopause that it was worth a try.

During todays consult I was told that my very poor response was all down to age, that the clinic has had no live births from women over the age of 43 for a few years (not told this at initial consultation, just pregnancy figures)   

We have spent approx £1800 on this abandoned cycle and are both feeling a little fragile and DH is very angry with clinic for not giving us full facts. We want a baby not a lost pregnancy  

I can totally understand the need for a biological child and the unwillingness to give up on own eggs, but at the end of the day any woman over 40 and especially 45 has to bear in mind that the odds are stacked against us.  

Its time for the clinics to give us the live birth figures and stop making huge amounts of money from a humans beings overwhelming desire to procreate and nurture. My DH's anguish at being childless is our anguish and todays abandonment of our IVF cycle has just added to that.

Good luck with what ever decision you make, the overseas boards are excellent for information with regards clinic locations for own egg and DE IVF.


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## laraboo (Sep 9, 2005)

Hi pinky tails

I'm so sorry to hear that your dreams are dashed with your own eggs, especially in view of a good history sending you a   ,  Like you said stats are misleading and they should have put you in the picture from the start instead of telling you now when you've wasted money, how much does ivf cost ?? I know its  more in the UK I thought it was £3-4000 depending on the clinic. Do you know what you are going to do in the future or is it all 2 early to say.? 
best wishes whatever you decide.



Daisy I'm absolutely shocked  that nobody over 45 apart from that lady in japan haven't managed to have a baby with own eggs, it looks like you've done your research though and are well informed. I must admit its made me think twice  and to be honest my head is all over the place  I'm that confused with pros and cons of own eggs, donor, stats, and all that it entails that I dont know where to start.  I see from your post that you have twins, well done that must be absolutely brilliant, TBH 6 months ago I wouldn't have even considered donor eggs but the more Ive read, Ive warmed to the idea I guess its so much harder when you have a bio child as its human nature to compare, and feel that it would be more your DH child than your own. These are issues I guess that are ironed out before you start out, with counselling etc. Yes I feel despondant and  but I thank your candidness and honesty, I would love twins and i have this premonition that if I did go for Rx then I'm gonna have them two ( maybe its wishful thinking and I'm being stupid but its such a strong feeling ).

any info would be gr8 bout DIVF all Ive done so far is made enquiries to reprofit as what Ive read about them seems encouraging.
regards  laraboo


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Laraboo,

The stat is that no one over 47 has had a live birth with own eggs ivf as far as I know.  Women of 45 have been successful with ivf, but obviously stats. are still pretty low.

I totally sympathise with your postition.  It is so hard to give up on one's own eggs, particuarly as you have been successful in your 40s before.

I agree totally that one needs to come to terms with using donor eggs.  I agree that counselling is a really useful tool for you to discuss the issues that you mention.  I would recommend this before moving on.

Certainly Reprofit have a great success rate as do the IVI clinics in Spain and Instituto Marques in Barcelona.  The international section has really useful info. on the clinics abroad with lots of women cycling there now.

Clearly donor eggs are the most realistic option for you at age 48.  Natural pregnancies are not unheard of, but obviously very rare.  You may want to continue naturally with a stim protocol for a short time just for closure - a clinic could monitor you during a stimulated cycle with insemination or sex after trigger.  However, I would give yourself a deadline to move on to DE if that is what you decide to do as it takes some time to organise a cycle and it may not work first time for you.

I would have a look at the international boards - especially the Spain threads and Reprofit for more info. while you think about the issues.

Another very important issue to bear in mind is that clinics mentioned above only use anonymous donors.  In my opinion, this is an issue to think about as your child will have no information on the donors.  This is something that I find hard, but despite this I fully intend to tell my children about their conception.

Countries with non-anon donors are the US and South Africa.  If you could afford it, the US is a really good option for DE - very good success rates etc.

Best wishes,

Daisy
x


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## Pinkytails (Mar 2, 2008)

Hi Laraboo,

Not quite so raw this morning, has a lovely snuggle with hubby and a long chat.

We will progress to DE abroad, hubby wants me wait a few months to give my body a rest, BUT I will be in contact with clinics in Kiev and Moscow on Monday morning.

IVF is approx £3000, ICSI £1000 on top if you need it. Then you have to pay for drugs and at are age we need maximum dose, paid £1000 for one weeks supply!!!! Add price of blood tests, initial and follow up consultations plus any travel expenses.

We put aside £7500 for this try.

If I can offer you any information on IVF or DEIVF abroad please let me know.


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## babycrazy (Mar 17, 2006)

Hi Pinky
Have you looked at Czech clinics  for DE IVF. ICSI and 5day blast transfers (if appropiate) is included in price.
Reprofit at mo is EU 3100, but 9mths waiting list. These clinics have much shorter list, Repromeda EU 4500?? and Zlin ,there is price list on thread.  There is also another clinic with good reputation, Prenatal in Prauge, of which i do not know price or waiting times.
The advantage of Czech Rep is you can fly on budget airlines and Hotel acc is cheap in weeks when theres no trade fairs, these take place in the city of Brno only in spring & summer months.
These clinics dont ask for as many test to be done on you & DH/DP as in Russia and Ukraine, If any scans are needed you can fly over to CZ  on an overnighter that works out cheaper than a  private scan here in UK.
Hope this info is of help to you.
x
Karen


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## Pinkytails (Mar 2, 2008)

Thankyou Karen,

I will look into these clinics today, I promised hubby I would give it a few months before continuing, BUT I did have my fingers crossed!!!!!!


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## babycrazy (Mar 17, 2006)

Hi P
I forgot to say my 12 day lining  scan at Repromeda cost me £5 compared to £100 to £200 in UK. I went on an overnighter for this, it paid for its self as well as my DH and some of our friends and relatives are smokers and in CZ ciggies are a 1/3rd of the price of UK, so i bought  loads back.

Reprofit  do lining scan on day of donors EC, this is free i believe, sorry not aware of other clinics prices.
XX
Karen


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## Pinkytails (Mar 2, 2008)

Karen, 

Thankyou for the info, I have had a quick look at their web site, at work so cant spend to long on web.

Are you currently having treatment with them


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## babycrazy (Mar 17, 2006)

Hi Pink
I had TX at Repromeda  (www.repromeda.cz) and it worked first go at DEIVF, I had my baby a DD on 24/01/08. ( I am 52, but have had Nat PG,s)
DH & I was first FF couple to go to Brno for TX, only after we went for our 1st consoltation, paid deposit and for some test did Reprofit come to light, but i would use them if i was in need again.
We looked also into going to Russia, but the hotel prices were very expensive, plus it looked complicated for us to get in and get there.
XX
Karen


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## Pinkytails (Mar 2, 2008)

How wonderful that you have your baby girl congratulations to you and your family.

Have book an appointment in May at IVI Alicante, hubby hates flying and we only need to go twice.

Will also weigh up cost of Repromeda, flights, scans etc and try and talk hubby into a long flight if cheaper than Spain.

Thankyou for all your help and good wishes.


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## babycrazy (Mar 17, 2006)

Hi Pinky
Brno Czech Rep is slightly less than a 2hr flight from Stanstead.
Glad to be of help!!
XX
Karen


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## Pinkytails (Mar 2, 2008)

Hi Karen,

Feel much better this week, I think the week of treatment I had for IVF really mucked my system up.
DH seems to be more angry   than upset about the abandoned cycle, said he would have thought twice about an own egg cycle if the clinic had been honest about there over 40's live birth rate from the outset.

I do however think it has made me more focused and sure about donor egg IVF.

All our tests etc are done for the Ukraine, I have today received an email from Repromeda, their cost is 4900 euro but that includes ICSI and blast as standard treatment.

My thoughts at moment are to go ahead with Isida, pencil in Repro for if that cycle does not work. Will certinly go over for scans if we cycle there, love the idea of not paying Ali Babba and his HFEA thieves in London to do them!!!!

Have ruled out Alicante on cost and also AV in Moscow due to the info I received that their overseas coordinator is leaving this month.  With so many places to go its a nightmare deciding which is going to be the best one, I guess at the end of the day its the one that gets you pregnant.

Big hugs for you and you little girl


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2008)

laraboo said:


> HI there can anybody tell me if they have had ivf and it was succesful with a high fsh. 14 an above
> Im considering the donor egg option but before we embark on that wondered if they would use my own eggs with an fsh of 14.8 and my age 48. I know fsh is only part of the equation but because of my age will it be difficult to get good quality eggs
> I know nothing about ivf but thinking of going abroad, so just looking into it at the mo any advice would be really helpful
> thanks
> ...


I am glad you still want to try for a child that is genetically yours. I am also just starting out on this path. I am looking at IVF as an option because of my age and hopefully it will increase my chances of having my own child at 45. I am also looking at the possibility of going abroad. Good luck and i hope you are successful!


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2008)

laraboo said:


> Thanks all, for your replies I know its a long shot, but I may still want to try with my own eggs, if I get the chance, I think that because I had a baby at 44 naturally, that Im finding it hard to accept that my fertility as gone so to speak, I still think that im 'fertile' as periods are normal, but obviously still have 48 yr old eggs.!!
> 
> kassie I wil pm you later
> 
> ...


I am so glad to hear you had a baby at 44 naturally. I am seeking IVF for the first time since i require a donor and would like to increase my chances.


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2008)

daisyg said:


> Hi Anne,
> 
> It is a difficult question really. To be brutally honest, there are no live births anywhere in the world using own eggs and ivf at age 48 (as far as I know, and I have been looking at this subject and fertility generally for the past few years). There is one woman recorded in Japan to have had success at 47 and this is the oldest known birth via own egg ivf. The best clinic in the world only has a handful of live births at 45 in its entire history.
> 
> ...


Hi Daisyg are you saying that a woman of say 45 is more likely to get pregnant naturally than by IVF? I thought IVF increased chances of pregnancy since the ovaries are being stimulated to produce eggs - the best eggs and sperm are then brought together and alot of other barriers are removed?


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi Shad,

IVF only increases your chances if you cannot get pregnant naturally. It can only be as good as a) the profile of the woman and man (sperm) and b) the skill of the clinic and c) a certain amount of luck. There is no evidence that the best eggs are produced - just more of them which you are right, increases potential embryos for potential impantation. However, you cannot know the quality of those eggs (without PGD). At 45 more of them will more likely to be abnormal than at age 35, or 40 or 42 for example.

Sadly, it is a fact that at age 45 your chances of having a live birth via ivf are very, very small... Only a handful of women have achieved this via ivf in the UK and even the top two clinics in the world (CCRM in Colorado and Cornell in NYC) have only ever had a very few live births from women of 45.

I got pregnant at Cornell at age 44.5 with own eggs - I produced 9 eggs, 6 embryos and replaced all 6 embryos. One singleton pregnancy which ended in my third miscarriage, sadly.

By far the bigger proportion of births over 45 are from natural conception, usually to women who have already conceived successfully before (e.g. Cherie Blair). But then again, not many 45 year old women do ivf...

_However, this does not mean you should not have a go with your own eggs if only for closure before moving on._

My advice would be to get to a very good clinic asap (US if you can afford it). Sadly, the ARGC in the UK does not accept single women, so the other top UK clinics would be the Lister, UCH, London Fertility Centre, CARE Notts etc etc. Again, hardly any have had live births at 45, but you need to discuss your personal situation in detail with them.

It is a lot to take in I know, having to find a clinic and start tests - but this is the very first step and will help you make decisions on whether to proceed to ivf or not.

IVF only increases the chances of sperm and egg meeting in cases where they cannot do this easily or as you say, as we age (up to early 40s). Don't forget that your eggs become more likely to be chromosomally abnormal at age 45 with less chance of implantation and higher m/c rates etc.

The main reason IVF is recommend for over 40s is also because it speeds up the process by producing lots of eggs in one cycle as women over 40 do not have time to waste trying conventionally month after month as fertility over 40 tends to decline rather rapidly.

Research from Cornell recently showed that women mid 40s (age 44/45 with NORMAL FSH/E2) who had a live birth from ivf needed to produce more than 5 eggs via stimulation and replace as many embryos as possible - optimum five (illegal in the UK). THis is traditionally v. hard at age 45 as many women do not respond well to ivf meds. etc. There was an 85% m/c rate in this study and a 3.1% live birth rate I think.

There is a 0.8% live birth rate at ivf age 45 in the UK according to HFEA figures.

It also depends on things like your hormone profile (FSH/E2/LH etc), uterine receptivity (no fibroids etc), that your thryroid is ok and that you have no other issues like clotting, autoimmune issues, insulin resistance etc etc. I would get all of this checked out asap.

Finally, this is a very negative outlook I know, but realistic I think... At the end of the day of course, you may have a 100% chance or 0% chance of pg via ivf at 45 - it is something that you cannot definitively know without trying - so if you can afford it, then go for it - but at a great clinic and with your eyes open!!!

Finally, as I said before, I am obviously generalising here and cannot know YOUR invididual chances of pg with ivf. I just think knowledge is power and will hopefully help you make useful choices and move forward towards your goal which is to have a baby. You may want to start researching DE now as well (if of course you think this is an option), as it is worth having a plan B...

Here is a link to the research I mentioned:-

http://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(06)03178-5/abstract

Best of luck,

Daisy
x


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