# Adoption pay versus Maternity Pay



## JDP (Sep 26, 2010)

i was a civili servant up until a few years ago where upon i was outsourced to the private sector we retained our civil service terms and conditions at that time however I was told that i would get Adoption pay of 5 weeks full pay with the rest being SAP but i have found out that if i was going on maternity i would get 18 full pay blatant case of discrimination -and i was wondering if anyone had experienced anything similar needless to say i have contacted the union.......
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if i had remained a civil servant (which we all wanted to do) i would have got 26 weeks as its the same for materntiy and adoption :-(
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our staff guide has a whole big section on maternity procedures and the adoption guidelines is a 4 line para in amongst the info for Domestic Purposes like taking time off for a funeral, relatives illness etc so definately not treated as the same importantce....


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## MummyPea (Jun 11, 2012)

I would make an appointment to speak to someone in your HR department. Also find out how many people have adopted in your company compared to how many have had babies naturally... Don't just accept that as it's such a big difference!


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## LemonSponge (Jan 22, 2013)

Same conditions apply in my private sector job. I've worked my way up through management over 13 years and they still will not offer me more paid leave. Many of my colleagues have been on ML a couple of times by now, so the company have had their full value out of me!

Not sure a union could do much for you, as the private sector can make their own rules up unfortunately. It's still worth speaking to HR though. I will be the first person in my (large) company to adopt, so i have to fight for any changes to their procedures myself.


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## GERTIE179 (Apr 20, 2005)

The Govt is looking to address some of this via law so you could check this out and cite the legislation (I think it was expected to be in by 2014). If nothing else go down discrimination.
X


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## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

Is seems to be common thing. I work for local authority and have done for 8 years in various roles in children's services. If I got pregnant I'd be entitled to a maternity package. As I am adopting I am entitled to zip - just statutory adoption pay. 

Crazy as obviously it's councils that place children for adopting even this doesn't make them value the parents that offer them a home it's disgusting. I would go to your Union incase. Were you forced  to accept the new private employer? I am going to kick off to at least get paid for prep etc instead of taking unpaid leave because no one takes unpaid leave for their 8000 midwife appointments so I don't see why I should be victimised here too. 

Good luck let us know how you get on. The only reason I won't dispute the pay situation is because I am not planing on returning to work post adoption so would have to pay it back anyway as I understand  x x


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## Dreams do come true (Jan 4, 2012)

Definitely challenge it!

I did and ended up getting 14 weeks full pay, 26 weeks SAP, plus an extra week paid for intros for dh and me (same company), also got a week each for prep and all apts!!!!!


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## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

OOOh good to know you genius may PM near the time for tips x x


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## katie c (Jun 15, 2009)

i work for a public sector body, maternity pay is a generous enhanced package; 9/10th pay for 6 weeks, then 3 months at half pay plus SMP, then the rest at SMP.

Adoptors get the full 39 weeks at SAP only 

sadly as the law stands at the moment it isn't classed as discrimination. there's not legislation to prevent discrimination against the infertile. however it is _borderline_ discriminatory...what if you were adopting because you were part of a gay couple? a single man? because you had a disability which meant you cant carry children? does your family life come at a cheaper price than your female, hetrosexual, able bodied colleague?

i also argued the morale issue, how it made me feel being considered less worthy than someone in my office, doing the same job as me, who's due to go on maternity leave soon. why does she get to get more money, just because she can have a baby?

and i also argued that other public sector's offer matched maternity/adoption packages, did my employer want to be considered lacking?

I have officially contested it, but initially got zip all response, the HR department even intimated to me that i should be grateful i've got a job in this climate, and that due to cuts nothing extra would be sanctioned. my union were hopeless too.

anyway i got a senior member of staff involved who's championed me, and its being reviewed this week, funnily enough. so fingers crossed! took a lot of effort to get here though.


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## katie c (Jun 15, 2009)

oh yes, and time off would be lovely too. i've have to take annual leave for panel, my course etc. next week i'm having a day's holiday so we can meet our possible match's foster carer. my work partner is off, so officially i wouldn't be allowed holiday under normal circs. my supervisor has let me have it as he's a decent guy, but if he wanted to be an a-hole and say no, he would have HR on his side.

whereas if it was an ante-natal thing no only would they have to let me have it, i wouldn't have to use any leave to do so! its SO unfair, and definitely makes you feel less worthy.


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## Dreams do come true (Jan 4, 2012)

Push for it girls x 

I played the your adoption policy is not very good and this is the maternity equivalent card, private sector ftse 100

Good luck x x


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## Daddyboo (Paul) (Dec 24, 2012)

Because I'm a man, I get 2 days full pay and 8 days SAP.

If I was a woman I would get 12 weeks full pay, 6 weeks 1/2 pay and 34 SAP


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## ChickenLegs (Feb 3, 2013)

I can see that it's not really practical for both carers to take several months off work, but it's a primary carer thing, rather than a man/woman thing. We had decided between the two of us that Mr ChickenLegs would take the time off, as his salary is lower, but then he decided that he didn't really fancy this and TBH neither did I. A share scheme would be possible, if employers were amenable.

BTW my adoption pay deal is the same as the maternity deal, I haven't asked for time off yet as I didn't want to tell anyone until it seemed more certain. I might ask for a day off for panel, but my boss seemed quite frosty when I told him yesterday so maybe I won't.


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## someday (Sep 11, 2008)

pauliboo said:


> Because I'm a man, I get 2 days full pay and 8 days SAP.
> 
> If I was a woman I would get 12 weeks full pay, 6 weeks 1/2 pay and 34 SAP


My husband will get 4 weeks full pay 2 weeks half pay. I am sure it all varies between employers and not simply because you are a man.


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## JDP (Sep 26, 2010)

thank you all so much for the replies it makes me so angry the discrepancies between the two .......all i want and all i think we deserve is to be treat the same...........Ive also found out my 5 weeks paid includes all pre-placement meetings but i will definately be fighting that one - it will be my equivalent of ante-natal meetings.

when you consider all the heartache we've all been through to get to this stage its so unfair and something we could definately do without as we have enough on our plates............  hugs to everyone going through this xx


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## Daddyboo (Paul) (Dec 24, 2012)

someday said:


> pauliboo said:
> 
> 
> > Because I'm a man, I get 2 days full pay and 8 days SAP.
> ...


Possibly, but the way I see it is utter sexism. Unfortunately I'm the higher earner but if I wasn't I would love to be the main carer, it would be my dream. The private sector still has a lot to catch up on, it is changing (i'm an equality rep, so i'm pushing the change) but it all takes time.

If you are female and take adoption leave then you get a far better deal at my company regardless of whether you are the main carer or not.


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## GERTIE179 (Apr 20, 2005)

Pauliboo that's awful - what about gay couples and in this day and age how can they presume it will be the female who takes leave - I'm outraged on your behalf. If the govt get their way legislation will change this (as couples wi be able to split their adopt/mat leave).

How big is the company, is it unionised? If so I would feel I had to challenge this.
X


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## thespouses (Jan 5, 2006)

Pauliboo could take the main adopter's leave. Nothing to stop him.


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## katie c (Jun 15, 2009)

pauliboo said:


> Because I'm a man, I get 2 days full pay and 8 days SAP.
> 
> If I was a woman I would get 12 weeks full pay, 6 weeks 1/2 pay and 34 SAP


i'm a bit confused. do you mean for paternity leave? or that you get different adoption leave 'cos you're male?


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## hawk26 (Apr 4, 2010)

I am also contesting adoption pay. Maternity pay is 4 weeks full pay, 2 weeks 90% pay, 12 weeks half pay then SMP whereas adoption pay is 7 weeks half pay then SAP. I have been told to put a case together outlining what neighbouring authorities do (I am a teacher) and it will be considered but I am 'unlikely to get what I have asked for'. If anyone has done this and has any advice, I would be really grateful for it. I really don't want ot make a massive fuss but for the sake of our future LO, I feel that I have to.


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## thespouses (Jan 5, 2006)

I'd include in your case that your child will be in the schools in your LA and they will save a lot of time and money if you can take more time off and your child is better settled in with you...


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## Arrows (Nov 9, 2008)

With the exception of panel days, all pre-adoption visits I had to take as unpaid leave but was always given the time off. Panel -both approval and matching were paid. After that I was granted the same as the maternity policy, though it took 2 years of fighting to get them to change their forms so adoption was included in the policy at all! In a company employing hundreds if not over a thousand, I was the first to adopt it appears. I'm fairly certain I was passed over for a more permanent contract because of adopting though. I can't prove it and my wee man means more to me than any job could anyhow.

My husband used up annual leave to attend any pre-adoption events and then was offered the standard 2wks paid + 2wks unpaid paternity. He took the paid paternity leave and used an additional 2wks holiday he had saved up as we couldn't afford for him not to be paid. He works for a very small company and they'd never had anyone adopt before.


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## Daddyboo (Paul) (Dec 24, 2012)

Arrows said:


> My husband used up annual leave to attend any pre-adoption events and then was offered the standard 2wks paid + 2wks unpaid paternity. He took the paid paternity leave and used an additional 2wks holiday he had saved up as we couldn't afford for him not to be paid. He works for a very small company and they'd never had anyone adopt before.


That's pretty much what I will be doing, my leave year runs Jan to Dec, so i've already sorted enough leave to take December off (just in case we get our LO before xmas).

*I was wrong about Adoption leave*, it was Paternity leave I was confused about, it will be better when we can share the adoption leave between DW and myself.

I've just dug out the company's 'work-life balance policy' and it states that the primary carer (only one adoptive parent is entitled to take adoption leave) is entitled to:

100% of 'average earnings' for weeks 1-6; and
100% of 'average earnings' for weeks 7-18; and
21 weeks of SAP where applicable
Beyond Week 39 of Adoption Leave will be unpaid.
A maximum of 52 weeks Adoption Leave may be taken per occasion.
Adoption Leave must be taken in a single block.

NOTE: This policy was amended on the 1st March 2013, no wonder I was so confused!

I have already negotiated paid time-off for training days, medicals and the home visit.

I think that is probably better than DW's Adoption Leave pay!

Just to be clear, I am a *MAN* and have just admitted I was *WRONG*


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## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

Paul that post just made me laugh and cheered up my day so thank you x x x


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## thespouses (Jan 5, 2006)

Me too!


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## Arrows (Nov 9, 2008)

Pauliboo, you made me laugh loads! Thank you for making me smile -I'm had one of those weeks and it's really cheered me up.


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## gettina (Apr 24, 2009)

Tee hee x


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## Daddyboo (Paul) (Dec 24, 2012)

Glad I could be of some assistance


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## peacelily (Feb 24, 2006)

Don't suppose anyone has any links to the news that the govt is trying to bring adoption pay in line with maternity pay? I've been asked to provide evidence and I'm struggling...

Thanks,
Peacelily xx


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## Dame Edna (May 17, 2007)

Look at the second bullet point, PL 

Taken from the UK Government's Department For Education site (so a reputable .GOV website  ).

http://www.education.gov.uk/inthenews/inthenews/a00219260/new-drive-to-help-children-find-adoptive-families

About time too 

X

/links


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## peacelily (Feb 24, 2006)

Fab, thanks DE


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## Daddyboo (Paul) (Dec 24, 2012)

Dame Edna said:


> Look at the second bullet point, PL
> 
> Taken from the UK Government's Department For Education site (so a reputable .GOV website  ).
> 
> ...


The 3rd point on that list is important for the secondary carer as currently this has to be taken within the statutory 2 weeks leave.

"giving adoptive parents the right to take time off work to meet the children they are set to adopt before they move in with family, helping to make the transition to a new family be as smooth as possible"


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## Daddyboo (Paul) (Dec 24, 2012)

peacelily said:


> Don't suppose anyone has any links to the news that the govt is trying to bring adoption pay in line with maternity pay? I've been asked to provide evidence and I'm struggling...
> 
> Thanks,
> Peacelily xx


if your workplace recognises a trade union then this is a good piece of literature to help with time-off and pay http://www.tuc.org.uk/tuc/adoption.pdf
/links


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## peacelily (Feb 24, 2006)

Thanks Pauliboo - unfortunately I work in investment services and there's no trade union    first time we adopted I was only able to claim SAP, but this time I'm going to try and push for more.


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## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

Good on you PeaceLilly good luck x x


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## coweyes (Sep 4, 2008)

JDP


I carnt believe the difference in mat pay and adoption pay, i would be so angry   .  Regarding having time off for anti nat classes i believe that the reason its paid for is that its classed as health of your child, eg its medical.  xx


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## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

I know that's why they can't stop you but it's a joke. Meeting FC's and SW's, HS, Prep and everything else we have to do is for the health of our children. Bottom line society doesn't value adopted parents on par with biological parents and the inequality in the law just justifies this view. 

Sorry coweyes I'm not having a pop it's just a ridiculous argument people use to justify prejudice. Basically the law is made by biological parents for their protection and without consideration for anyone not like them  . Hey ho we just have to get on with it.


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## Daddyboo (Paul) (Dec 24, 2012)

gwyneth27 said:


> I know that's why they can't stop you but it's a joke. Meeting FC's and SW's, HS, Prep and everything else we have to do is for the health of our children. Bottom line society doesn't value adopted parents on par with biological parents and the inequality in the law just justifies this view.


That's why my employer has paid me for those visits, I pointed out the inequality and they agreed. My employers employ over 30,000 people so it's big enough to cover my absence, in a smaller company you may struggle.


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## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

Well done you Paul will defo be asking your advice near the time about how best to approach people. 

It's still unfair in a small company because they would have to cover it for a pregnant woman and the reason for needing cover has no effect on the difficulty of sorting it. 

Have a wonderful weekend hope the sun stays out x x


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## katie c (Jun 15, 2009)

just thought i'd update this thread too...after about nine months of campaigning for this, my employer have finally agreed to change the policy and match adoption leave pay to the same as maternity.   

i'd consider campaigning for some time off for pre-adoption meetings etc, if i could be bothered. i'll let someone else do that!


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## Mummy DIY Diva (Feb 18, 2012)

Well done you've done amazingly to make that happen.  Fantastic work x x


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## Arrows (Nov 9, 2008)

!!!!!Like!!!!


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## JDP (Sep 26, 2010)

katie c - thats FANTASTIC news ....... I am meeting with my senior manager next week to start the ball rolling on my case.............busy compiling a list of "reasons for" with the help of some things that were added to my original question - thanks girls xx


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