# Hey, Newbie Stu here, take the time to read my post if you like.



## Hurtbyitall (Jul 15, 2010)

Hi All,

I'm Stu and I'm a 28 year old single male.  This could be a long introduction (so fo those easily bored stop here, lol).  Ok,  I was a fairly happy-go-lucky kid until I hit the age of aboput eighteen, although I can remember my first panic attack and that first feeling of social phobia at Glastonbury festival in 99' when I was a seventeen year old pup.  I went to the doctor's when I was seventeen/eighteen because my libido was waining, I was becoming increrasingly socially phobic and i Was feeling lethargic and depressed, they gave me beta blockers.  I n all truth, I probably wasn't as honest as I should be (at eighteen, what young man wants to talk about a decreasing libido with his grumpy old GP).  So, I went to Uni, spent my time there very unhappy, but not depressed as such, just anxious and socially phobic, I'd avoid women like the plague.  I also put on weight around this time (it's obvious to me now why) but at the time, i Didn't have a clue.

Upon graduating from Uni, I took a job in a Library, wanting to hide from other people my age, I met a girl there and we had a year long relationship, I lost three stone, down from 16 stone to thirteen stone and at 6'1, I looked pretty good, I've always been lucky/cursed that I'm good looking, it can be a curse because women could never understand why I was so hesitant, it was because I felt so terrible about my body, I felt very womanly at the time.  Well, this relationship went fantastically for several months (about eight) I felt a lot better.  Then, rather cruelly, she started to mention my boyish features (I now know that from the age of about eighteen, I wasn't getting the level of testosterone that I needed). I just thank God it didn't happen when I was twelve or something.

Ok, so I went to my new doctor when I was 24 saying that I felt very emasculated, not a great deal of facial hair, no broad shoulders, gyno, a lack of body hair, apart from my tummy.  Stupidly, I also mentioned my need, then, to wash my hands frequently and inappropriate thoughts about colleagues, etc.  Which I now know was my OCD playing up, unfortunately, this led to a rather quick diagnosis of Body Dysmorphic Disorder.  So, for the next three and a half years I went to this guy once a month, each time begging him for a fertility test and a testosterone count.  Although he sheepishly took the psych's. rather ridiculous advice and said it was a mental illness, he did agree to a testosterone test, i WENT TO AN nhs endo who said, apart from the Gyno, I was fine, my testosterone results averaged out at 12.  The NHS considers anything between ten and thirty-four to be normal.  I told him I thought that he was wrong and that a 24 year old, 14 stone man, should surely have more testosterone and that they hadn't accounted for weight or age (I now know this to be correct).  During 2007, when I had just turned 25, I spent a good couple of grand going to two of apparently the very finest endo's in the UK. Although they both picked up on a tesosterone deficiency, they botyh failed to pick up on my infertility.  To complicate matters, the medications they both wanted to see me on, my GP rang the Northamptonshire chief pharmacisrt on both occasions and overruled them, he was a real pooper trooper.

So, after three and a half years, I went to a more sensible GP (and I know, I should have done it much earlier, but constantly explaining intimate details is very hard).  He ran a test and it was discovered that my testosterone level had dropped to 3 (about the same  as a healthy young woman).  I was so angry, I cornered my doctor and although I didn't physically threaten him I certainly vented.  I was sent to another endo, he said that he wanted to send me for a fertility test (something that I had been asking for for three and a half years).  It was discovered  that instead of the necessary 20 million sperm, I had 30'000 healthy sperm, I ws enraged but there was no way I could sue my old GP, he was untouchable as most GP's are, having the great weight of both the NHS and the GMC behind them.  So, I had spent over three years in bed, thinking I was severely mentally ill, when it ws a testosterone problem, I am now infertile (I have no idea whether IVF will work) and depressed, sometimes beyond words.

I now take three sustanon 250 injections a week, I refuse to see my endo.  My new GP, mislead me and told me that with the correct amount of Testosterone, I would be fine, unfortunately this isn't the case because my LH and FSH levels never increased to compensate for my fslling tesosterone.  Anyway, my endo rang me because I thought he was going to answer my cvall about two testosterones shots a month to boost my sperm count, he said 'It won't help you' and I said 'what do you mean' and he said 'your other hormones haven't compensated, Testosterone will not boost your fertility, your infertile'.  I'm sure he wanted to say more but I just put the phone down, what a cruel way of telling someone something like that.  It was very lucky my ex-girlfriend was here, she snatched my door keys and hid them because I kept talking about putting my head on the tracks, we'd been talking about having a child.

Anyway, I broke up with my ex because paradoxically, I knew that she'd stay with me and I didn't want that, I wanted to see her able to have children.  Since then I have been out with a woman with a child, who I got so attached to.  When it finished, I missed him so much, this was only a few weeks ago, and I now realise the precarios situation I am in regarding relationships, if i Have one with a woman withpout children, will she rely on IVF?  If I have one with a woman with them, what if we split up after three years or more?  It could kill me, I'd have no legal rights.  I've realised what a horrid position this is to be in.  

Although I'm on testosterone now, it hasn't helped me mentally, I look good, but I'd swap that all to be fertile, but It may never be.  P0lus my sperm are immotile, although they are healthy, so IVF is a possibility.  I don't know how much of one?  but there you go.

Anyway, it's left me feeling very sad and lonely, I'm a young, good looking Guy and I feel like my whole evolutionary reason for being on this earth, procreation, has been robbed from me, I'll never know if four years ago, when I originally asked for a test, I was fertile, I'm sure as hell not now and it breaks my heart.  Thank You to anyone who hs read all of this, I don't know if this site is generally used by men, I don't mind, but this is a male perspective, I wish I wasn't so damn, bloody paternal because I'm great with kids.


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## Hurtbyitall (Jul 15, 2010)

I didn't say my gp was a popper trooper, i sid he ws and is a 'b***ard', the man almost single handedly ruined my life, i THINK I have a right to be angry and that your other members will more than understand


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## Hurtbyitall (Jul 15, 2010)

And excuse me, to all testosterone deficient men reading this, that's three Sustanon 250 shots a month, not a week, Christ, i'd look like a Bull if that were the case, lol!


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## DizziSquirrel (Feb 15, 2005)

Hi
Hurtbyitall  
Its hard to know what to say to you just now, you are understandably hurt and feeling quiet betrayed by everything  
I would like to think that by writing it down some of the frustrations have had an outlet.

I personally feel you may need to seek some counselling outside of what FF can offer you, most clinics have a fertility counsellor and it may be worth getting in touch with them ( the hfea have a website with a list of clinics)
I would be inclined to see a good GP again too/talk to the nurse prehaps who gives you the sustanon inj 
however thats not to say FF isnt here for you, its just sadly on a few men post on the forums,   so it makes it harder to help IYKWIM ?

Infertility is harsh of that there is no doubt, none of us here would wish it on our worst enemy
I do think that with some time you may find a happy outcome to what now seems such an impossible situation, and that is what I hope for.
Take care and be strong, its not game over OK.

~Dizzi~
PS I am sure our members will understand, your use of strong language,
however there is a good range of smileys to inturpret your words  in the future 
I am however going to leave your post as it is tonight.


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## Bunny-kins (Oct 3, 2008)

Hello Stu,

First of all I just wanted to welcome you to fertility friends and well done on coming on here and telling us your story!  Everybody here has their own infertility stories so you have come to the right place for much needed support.  Being told you are infertile and unable to have children naturally is the most soul distroying thing anyone can tell you and everyone here will understand exactly what a life changing moment that one word can do and the anger that you feel at the moment  However, I have to point out that there is hope, there are fertility treatments that are successful for couples who have male factor problems. ICSI which is like IVF treatment but individual sperm is injected into the egg is very successful even with men who only have a very few sperm (i'm talking dozens here not thousands!) so you see you could have a future with children it's just we have to have help to achieve it!

I do think that this is not the time to turn your back on people who love you. This can be a sad and lonely time and you must embrace love and relationships because it's what gets us through each day. Don't shut yourself off from a loving relationship because of this Stu, infertility won't beat you!!!

There are some Men on this website but it is mostly women but many have gone through fertility treatment due to Male factor. You might be interested in looking in the Mens room Here's the link http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=35.0

Have a good nose around and post and make friends. We are a friendly bunch and will answer any questions you may have 

I hope you get the support you need hun

Bunny xxx


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

Hello Stu, what an awful situation to find yourself in. 

For what it's worth, I was also told rather bluntly that I was infertile... I overcame that and now have a little boy. I consider it our mission to prove the doctors wrong! 

When you mentioned at the bottom about procreation being your reason and feeling robbed of it I could very much identify with that. I got very angry at myself, my husband and everyone who was anywhere within a 10 mile radius of me most of the time. Anfry and frustrated and just kept wondering what I'd done to deserve this. I think anger, in this situation is a very natural reaction; you are grieving for something here - the loss of the normal life you might have had (had you been diagnosed earlier) and the normal life you could have. 

I do think that if and when you meet someone you care about, be up front and honest with her about your situation. It's pointless to second guess who you should look for when you don't know who is out there who is looking for someone just like you; you should date whomever you like and whomever likes you regardless of their situation . I didn't know, when I met my husband, that I'd end up needing IVF to have a baby - there were times when I told him to leave me because I was damaged but, you know, he loved me so he stayed. We came as a unit and we went through it together... that's what having a life partner is all about. I sincerely hope that you find someone who will love you and accept you as you are and, whatever route you may need to parenthood, it will be a journey you undertake together with open hearts. And it if comes down to it, there are places like FF here and others out there that support couples going through this. I can honestly say Fertility Friends was my lifesaver at times. And you know what? I've made some fab lifetime friends here which has made me think perhaps being infertile did have hidden blessings after all. 

In terms of your situation, I was struck by what you said about testosterone and sperm count because I do remember a while back that we had another FFer whose husband was taking HCG and menopur to try and raise his FSH levels and kick start his sperm production. There's a few mentions of it in various thread on the Male Factor boards (with mixed results) that might provide you with some food for thought. Obviously, phase one is to find a girl to love and then, well, as I say if you are open and honest with her from the start (well, ok, maybe not on the very first date  ) and she likes you for what you are then I doubt she's going to be put off by what the future might hold should you decide to start a family together. As and when you are ready to do that then it's an option for you that you could discuss with perhaps a fertility consultant with endo/andrology credentials. Incidently, you mention you produce some sperm and, although it may not be fantastic quality it only takes one... and I've been around of FF for long enough to see a fair few miracle natural pregnancies that really should not have been possible. 
One thing that occurs to me; have the doctors ever done any investigations into why you produce so little testoterone? If you were developing normally at one point it seems logical to assume something may have happened to affect this. I assume your endocrinologist has ruled out pituitary tumours and the like? 

Finally, I wanted to say that Dizzi may have a very good point and, after all the emotional and physical turmoil you have been through, it might not be a bad idea to ask for some counselling to help you adjust to your situation. There's no shame in counselling; it exists precisely to help those of us who have struggled with understanding our emotions and reigning them in so we express them in positive and life affirming ways. 


C~x


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## Hurtbyitall (Jul 15, 2010)

Thank You for the tips, I shall explore them, my last partner left me to have another child with her useless ex, but I think she wanted another boy who looked and acted just like the first, ah well, thems the breaks.  Am I allowed to just ask if there are any like-minded females on here that might not mind a child in their lives?  I know it's naughty and I'll be told off, but I don't want the hurt of being rejected just because of my infertility again! x


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## Hurtbyitall (Jul 15, 2010)

Oh, and I don't have a nurse, I'm allowed to do my own injections!  Thanks to those who have replied once again! xxx


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## daxcat (Apr 27, 2010)

Stu, firstly   . You have been treated very unfairly by the medical profession. My DH has a very, very low testosterone count. I think it was about 2. They treated him with testosterone gel sachets at first (4 a day)and then graduated to monthly injections which he said were agonisingly painful. His levels barely rose at all and the only effect it did have on him was to halt all sperm production. However they didn't tell us this was a side effect until we'd been TTC for 6 months! 
This might sound a little silly but we've actually been able to increase his testosterone levels a bit after stopping the injections by him playing squash reguarly and watching porn quite a lot. LOL!!!!

As long as you have sperm you have the chance to be a daddy. You sound like a wonderful guy and I'm sure you will meet someone who will give you the chance to be a dad someday soon. If it might help I'm sure my DH wouldn't mind exchanging PM's with you. He's been through the whole complete disinterest in sex issue and the infertility problem even if it was only temporary in his case. He's not wanted sex for nearly 10 years now. We just deal with it via porn, some wine etc.

They did say his lack of testosterone could be caused by a problem with the pituatary (sorry about my spelling!)-did they check this with you?
Take care of yourself. XXX
Shelley.


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## DizziSquirrel (Feb 15, 2005)

Good morning!


> Am I allowed to just ask if there are any like-minded females on here that might not mind a child in their lives?


Erm the answer is *NO*, everyone here is wanting a child, and so I am actually  you should post this  
you can consider this being told off, any more silly posts and I will edit! 

Back to your question mind, any woman who leaves you because of your fertility wasnt worth staying with IMO - 
so take one day at a time and like Caz says, I sincerely hope that you find someone who will love you and accept you as you are and, whatever route you may need to parenthood.

I hope this new day brings with it a new sence of positivity, 
         

~Dizzi~


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## Hurtbyitall (Jul 15, 2010)

I consider Myself Told off Dizi!  Thanks Daxcat, My sex drive is through the roof, in a relationship it's great, not in a relationship it's not so great.  It would be nice to speak to your Husband if he felt comfortable, I may be able to help him a little too thank you! (oh, and I do psa's, myself, again, my prostate if fine).  If your husband is having problems with the injections hurting it could be because, he's older and bruises easier, the nurse is using the same needle to wit draw and inject, thus blunting it, she is pushing the stuff into hard, not warming it up in a hot glass of water first, or pushing it in too slowly, or even, using the wrong bloody needles or injection site completely, nothing surprises me anymore.  I do my injections mysself, I use a 1 and three quarter inch green to withdraw, change needles, then use either another 1 and three quarter inch green needle or a one and three quarter inch blue needle (I think experimenting with different blue and green needles and injections sites sounds like the best remedy).  I inject into the outside of my lower-middle thigh.  The average man should be able to place two hands just below the hip to just above the knee, there are very few veins here, although I always pull-back to check anyway. *Please note, this is not qualified medical advice* just a guy who seems to have been told to get on with it trying to get on with it.

As mentioned, I suffer from OCD, this has nothing to do with my tesosterone deficiency, it has been with me all of my life.  But I wondered if I could ask two questions?  All-comers welcome, any advice or any similarities would be fantastic.

Ok, firstly, at exactly the same time as my testosterone deficiency started (or I believe it to have started)  I began to develop a condition which has turned into a full-blown cluster C Personality disorder with associated depression.  Has anyone, male or female, noticed that after going a long time without treatment they've developed  what would be considered psychological disorders.

Secondly, As mentioned, the tesosterone is restoring me back to manliness physically and makes me extremely horny,  However, all the literature says that it should help your brain, help you to cope and percieves things better or differently, has anyone found this to be truie?  Either male or female.

Many Thanks to you all, I really do feel very bad at the minute and because of my personality disorder (and I know it's all semantics but with this one, I can't argue, they've got me pegged to a tee).  I just can't handle things like this a hundredth as well as someone who is otherwise fine. it's broken me.

And P.S. Isn't counselling supposed to be mandatory?  Not only was I told in the most horrific of ways, which caused me to have a psychotic attack (I'm terrified I'll have another one, they are so scary) but I was offered no counselling, I still get my doctor to do my bloods on occasion and I work out for myself if I need to add tamoxifen for instance or run another PSA test, I've become a right Endo.  It should be my bloody 
career.

And the best of luck to you all, whatever it is you are dealing with, you are all very brave.  When you're so ill yourself it can be so easy to9 forget others and I nearly did, but Thank You all (even for the telling off, lol) very much! x


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## Hurtbyitall (Jul 15, 2010)

And no excuses, I am sorry, it just upset me so much, that's the one stipulation I made.  I never make stipulations for women.  aI asked her, before we started seeing each other, to think very seriously about whether she was over her ex and whether or not she wanted any more children.  She assured me her ex was a cheating joke and that she was perfectly happy with her little boy.  What a callous, cruel and totally human thing to do to someone else!  But I am sorry, I don't think the tesosterone helps with regards to silly comments but there shall be no more and can I just state agai8n, my advice for your hubby Dazcat, on needle sites, etc,  although it probably is one of those causeing the problem, this is purely a LAYMAN'Sguess, not MEDICAL ADVICE, I don't want to get into more trouble, you all seem so lovely.  xxxx


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## daxcat (Apr 27, 2010)

Hi hurtbyitall, my DH is only 32 so not too old. They were injecting him in his bum (rather brutally to be honest!)
Hes stopped taking them altogether now and as I said we just try to cope with his lack of interest. The doctors did offer him an implant but he's very needle phobic so decided not to carry on with the treatment. He could carry on with the gel but it never really raised his libido or testosterone and we're staying well clear of it while TTC as we now know thats what stopped his sperm production.

Take care. XXX


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## Hurtbyitall (Jul 15, 2010)

And thanks for the HCG Tip Caz, I had a CAT scan and my hypothalamus and my pituitary gland are fine.  It's a true mystery why my LH and FSH levels stayed normal.  And Even the best Endo's in the country based their assumptions that I was fertile purely on the fact that I had large testicles, what money-grabbing charlatans some of these people (usually well-to-do white or asian men) are.  It's so frustrating.  I should have finished medical school now, I was deemed intelligent enough to attend when I was in my mid-teens, I wonder how much intelligence it really takes or if it's just learning to regurgitate others words and actions!  I wouldn't join as a Doctor, unless it was an A&E or Casualty specialist, for all the money in the world, not that I ever could.  Still, I want my life, my career, my house, partner and children, not to be stuck in some bloody council flat., on my own, feeling like a fruit-loop!  I guess life has to be unfair for some people and I know others have it terrible, it just sucks!  Excuse my Venting!  

Thank Youx


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## Hurtbyitall (Jul 15, 2010)

Daxcat,

It does sounds like they were just too quick with him, the bum should be the most painless site at all, I bet they neither changed the needle or heated the oil beforehand, of course it would hurt.  I'm sorry, I don't understand (TTC).  I was told that Androgenic doses of injected testosterone wouldn't stop sperm production, only anabolic doses, but I suppose I've been mis-informed again.  And I agree, I tried the gel for six months, It subcutaneous nature meeans that it varies in how well it works from man to man depending on how long we leave it after a shower, our ability to draw it into out muscles through our skin, much like nicorette patches, wearing a T-shirt in bed is not sexy, I was terrified I'd accidentally brush past a pregnant woman,  I even found and bought DHT cream on the internet, now that was dangerous and stupid.  It souns as if your poor hubby hasn't been treated either gently or with any consideration whatsoever.  I'm very sorry.  I'll look up TTC now.


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## Hurtbyitall (Jul 15, 2010)

AAH, I see, yep, if Testosterone won't boost his sperm count and could actually damage it then it's definitely no good.  My doctor was speaking about a drug that temporarily massively increases sperm production, I take it you and your hubby are going through a process like that Daxcat?  And when you do conceive (my sincerest best of wishes) and have a child, get him back on Testosterone, injections are the best, they just need to be experimented with to find what is most comfortable.  Then he'll be up for it five or six times a day, lol. It is incredibly potent.

All My Best, Love Stu xxx


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## daxcat (Apr 27, 2010)

He's not taking anything at all at the moment and after being off the testosterone for nearly a year his count is OK. We did actually get a BFP (big fat positive) in may but miscarried at nearly 6 weeks. Still it shows that he can now!! They never mentioned a drug that could increase sperm count - just said wait and see. Not much fun given that I'm 35 now   !!! They didn't change the needle or heat it - we read in the instructions that the needle was supposed to be changed but they said it wasn't necessary! 

Still we'll see what this month brings     
He'll never go back to the injections though - he's terribly needle phobic and all it did was make him agressive (not towards me, just in general!) We muddle through as best we can and he's very good when it comes to BMS (baby making sex), he just gets on and does it even though he doesn't really want to LOL!!! Bless!
Take care. XXX


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## Hurtbyitall (Jul 15, 2010)

Thanks for sharing Daxcat, I wish you and your Hubby all the luck in the world.

Love Stu xxx  And oil injected into the body should always be heated in hot water first and drawing and injecting with the same needle can leave it terribly blunt, I'm not surprised your poor Husband suffered.

Thank You,

Love Stu xxx


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