# Wondering if anyone else has answers to my questions...



## FlyingCat (Jan 23, 2011)

Hello ladies,

I know everyone's case is different but I wonder can I get the benefit of this group's pooled knowledge so I can go into our negative cycle followup appointment with a bit of a clue what to ask about.

We were originally diagnosed with male factor issues - poor count, poor volume and poor morphology.

So we've had three cycles now. 

The first was a basic long protocol ICSI cycle with gonal F which resulted in a BFP but no frosties - of our 11 eggs that fertilised successfully, all embryos except the one that became our daughter failed somewhere between day 3 and day 5.

The second was exactly the same and while we got a similar number of eggs, only three fertilised and none reached blast by day 5. We went ahead with transfer but I bled (heavily - full AF) from day 11 post EC. Needless to say BFN

We followed up with additional sperm testing which showed high (60%+) DNA fragmentation, so in the next cycle we chose to use IMSI and embryoscope.

The third cycle was somewhere between the two. Similar number of eggs, but the sperm sample was so bad that they decided to cancel the IMSI as there weren't enough normal looking, motile sperm even using just the ICSI microscope. However even just using normal ICSI, 8 out of 12 fertilised, but by day 4 (we used embryoscope this time) all but one nice strong 3AB blast had failed. We had the transfer but again I bled heavily from day 11 post EC. BFN


So I have a number of particular questions and so far googling has not led to much in the way of answers. If anyone has any experience of any of these and wants to share the advice they've been given then I'd appreciate it.

Firstly me;

Has anyone encountered bleeding so early post transfer - if I think about the biology, bleeding on day 11 post EC barely gives any window for the embryo to implant before the lining starts to decay - I've never had any problems with lining, usually a good triple layer by EC and I usually have very long cycles outside IVF (30-33 days). Has anyone discussed such issues with an immunes specialist?

Secondly DHs issues;

Has anyone had success in improving their sperm DNA fragmentation? Or had dramatically different results on two different iterations of this test?

Has anyone been recommended any particular ways of improving sperm?

Has anyone used IMSI successfully with a very poor sample? and if so how did you get enough sperm to test? (Prefreezing?)



Thanks for any light that people can shed on this subject - I'm at the point where I really am not sure I can go again unless we get some answers - the budget, and our physical and emotional resources are pretty close to run out.

Cat.


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## M0ncris (Aug 25, 2013)

Hi Cat,

As far as I know Serum in Greece are good with sperm issues and you can have a free phone chat with Penny there.  

Other ladies might be able to help you more with your other questions.  Sorry not to be of more help.

M


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## -Susan- (Apr 9, 2012)

Sorry to hear you've had a BFN  Have you done anything to help other than IMSI? Checked for varicoceles, infections, etc? Some experts, such as Penny at Serum recommend antibiotics to see if that helps.  High antioxidants can help, such as high Vit C and E (don't get too hopeful though - I had my DH on lots of supplements and his sperm ended up being worse!). No smoking and preferably not much drinking is important. If all this fails, surgical retrieval of sperm (TESE) can sometimes get better-quality sperm as the theory is it's had less chance to get damaged. You may already know all this though.

I gather Dr Ramsay is a particularly good urologist, maybe it would be worth visiting someone like him to ask whether there's anything more that can be done and whether it's worth trying again. You can still get pregnant when your partner has high DNA frag - as you've proven - but you may end up trying lots of times. A good (fertility specialist) urologist may be able to tell you whether it's worth trying.

I'm not sure bleeding 11 days after EC indicates there's a problem but someone else may know. I started to bleed 12 days after on my last cycle and there seems to be absolutely no issues with me.


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## CaroG (Jul 8, 2013)

Hi, can't give any advice but I bled 4 days after day 5 transfer with my first cycle, so very early, so you are not alone on that front.
Caroline x


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## livity k (May 19, 2009)

Sounds like maybe you could with extra progesterone support to delay the bleeding- you could ask about  prontogest or gestone which are intra muscular injections and give slow release. 
Good luck
Livity


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