# Newbie - Which Company Gives You the Most Choice in Matching?



## missmarple (Jul 23, 2009)

I may have to use donor eggs if my next cycle of IVF fails.  I don't know much about it (I am trying to catch up by reading lots on this forum).

Please don't flame me but my most important aspect of the donor is intelligence. I honestly couldn't care less how they look, but I really do want the opportunity to have a 'clever' donor! Sorry, I do know how arrogant this sounds! Dh and I are both post graduates and it is really important to us.  

Do I have to go abroad to achieve this? I know in the USA they give you 30 pages of info on each donor along with their SAT results but I really don't want to go that far if I don't have to.  Can anyone recommend anywhere?


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## drownedgirl (Nov 12, 2006)

If it makes you fell better, I firmly believe that nurture has a huge effect on intelligence anyway. This is one area where the whole discussion about epigenetics, effects of the birth mother on the developing foetus, effcts of breastfeeding and upbringing really highlight some interesting questions.

I can certainly say that our DE DD is very very similar to our Ds1 in some ways, while D DS is similar in others.. and I don't put that down just to the effects of DP's genes...

If you read all through there are some interesting thoughts here: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/magazine/15egg-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

/links


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## missmarple (Jul 23, 2009)

Hi drownedgirl - thank you so much for that link. I do agree with you, and if I recall correctly there are a couple of cases where twins were adopted separately and one went on to university and one did not and the docs put it down to pure upbringing. And nor do I think university is the be all and end all....

Anyway, I would still like to know where we can go to achieve our goal.  What info do they give you in the UK for example about donors?


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## drownedgirl (Nov 12, 2006)

missmarple said:


> Anyway, I would still like to know where we can go to achieve our goal. What info do they give you in the UK for example about donors?


Can't help you there as mine was a friend.. I'll have a look on the HFEA site for you!


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## drownedgirl (Nov 12, 2006)

http://cop.hfea.gov.uk/cop/COPContent.aspx?M=1&S=35&SM=181&P=28#content

"Before gametes are provided, the recruiting centre should take medical and family histories and details of previous donations. The centre should encourage prospective donors to provide as much other non-identifying biographical information as possible, so that it may be available to prospective parents and resulting children"

/links


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## missmarple (Jul 23, 2009)

Oooh thank you, how interesting!


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## drownedgirl (Nov 12, 2006)

There is a form the donor is asked to complete, i think.

But here in the UK, I think there is much less of a "market" in donors, than in some other countries, though that's not to say you have no hope of checking the academic background of any donor offered to you. Why not call a clinic?


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## drownedgirl (Nov 12, 2006)

http://www.spiritlakeconsulting.com/SLC/sharedfiles/library/devpsych/genetics.htm Some interesting stuff re genetics...

/links


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## missmarple (Jul 23, 2009)

God, this is brilliant stuff - is this your profession, drownedgirl, or are you just interested?


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## drownedgirl (Nov 12, 2006)

missmarple said:


> God, this is brilliant stuff - is this your profession, drownedgirl, or are you just interested?


Just interested. I'm a voracious reader and surfer. Though my sister and my niece are both pyschology graduates!

Having DE twins makes me very interested in the nature/nurture thing. Though I'm perfectly happy with our babies genetics and think in some ways they're better than mine (though having a "bio" DS1 I can afford to be casual I suppose!) I can see a lot of things about the twins which is like me, and certainly like DS1, and as I know my donor and HER children...

******* loves tomatoes, like Hobbeys's DD
Both twins are good eaters (Ds1 is not)
Both twins are waterbabies (DS1 is, DP is not, Hobbesy's children are not really)
***** loves music (Hobbesy is a siinger, DP's sisters are very musical too)

******* is prone to urine infections (same as me, my sister and I were born with abnormalities)

***** has double jointed elbows, same as me


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## Chuds (Oct 25, 2008)

Hi Drownedgirl and Miss Marple
I've just been reading your posts and links to some really interesting articles and wanted to say how interesting and informative I've found them thanks. The Peggy Orrenstein article was great I've read her memoir too Waiting for Daisy her style is really personable.

I had my DE consultation today at CRM and asked if you could find out any social info about donors but it's really only basic medical and physical stuff that's available. I would really like some social background too but I also really want the resulting child, If I was so fortunate, to be able to find out about the donor  .
It really is a minefield.
Thanks again and best wishes Chuds x


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## olivia m (Jun 24, 2004)

Hi Chuds
All donors in the UK are asked to complete a pen portrait of themselves and a goodwill message that can be conveyed to a child.  Neither of these is mandatory but good centres will encourage all donors to take these tasks seriously.  As from 1st October when the amended 2008 HFE Act came into force, BOTH these pieces of information should be available to potential parents at the time of choosing a donor (should there be a choice). The level to which a donor has been formally educated is often included in the pen portrait, in addition to a range of social and emotional information.
Olivia


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## missmarple (Jul 23, 2009)

Thank you chuds and olivia. 

Does anyone know anything about importing donor eggs - for example could we (if we had unlimited money  ) fly some in from the US?


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## olivia m (Jun 24, 2004)

A couple of problems with importing donor eggs.  The first is that they don't freeze and thaw very well because of the high liquid content.  New methods of freezing/vitrification are being developed all the time but the technology is still not great.  The second is that all imported gametes (eggs or sperm) and embryos must conform to UK standards with regards to testing, willingness of the donor to be identifiable and (in theory) the donor should only have received expenses rather than payment.
If you can get round these two hurdles, then in theory importing donor eggs from the States is possible.
Olivia


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## Chuds (Oct 25, 2008)

Hi Olivia
Thanks very much for bringing the pen portrait and goodwill message to my attention. Just to clarify is this information still only mandatory even though it should now be available to potential parents? Also you say 'good centres' will encourage donors to create pen portrait and a goodwill message? Were you implying that CRM are not one of these? Please excuse me if I'm way off the mark here. I'm also posting on the CRM recipients thread so I will ask what their experiences of available donor information at the clinic has been. 
Thanks again
Chuds


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## DapperDan (Aug 14, 2006)

olivia m said:


> As from 1st October when the amended 2008 HFE Act came into force, BOTH these pieces of information should be available to potential parents at the time of choosing a donor (should there be a choice).


Please provide a source for that. As far as I can tell, it's listed under Discretionary Access Rights where parents receiving treatment are provided with non-identifying information about the donor by the clinic. As far as I was aware, it depends on the clinic as to what information they give out.


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## indekiwi (Dec 23, 2008)

I've just had a quick look through the HFEA site but didn't see any reference with respect to those currently undergoing tx - there is clear reference however to the post birth situation.  CRM's policy to disclosure seems to be at the conservative end of the what could be provided, whereas my last clinic provided lots of information (all completely non-identifying I hasten to add).


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## olivia m (Jun 24, 2004)

Hi
Section 20.1 of the new (8th) edition of the HFEA Code of Practice states, 
The Centre should give people seeking treatment with donated gametes or embryos -
a.  relevant non-identifying information about donors whose gametes are available to them, including the goodwill message and the pen-portrait (if available).

Hope this is helpful.
Olivia


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## indekiwi (Dec 23, 2008)

Many thanks Olivia - I will go armed and dangerous to my clinic with this piece of information....


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## missmarple (Jul 23, 2009)

Thank you all for that and many thanks, olivia, for clarifying on importing. It sounds like it is going to be a complete nightmare unfortunately! Olivia - do you know which countries in Europe provide the most information about donor eggs?


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## olivia m (Jun 24, 2004)

Hi
As far as I understand it, Spain gives the least info, Czech Republic and Ukraine a bit more, but I'm no expert on this.  I know it's a long way to go but South Africa gives lots of info on donors and it is sometimes possible to correspond anonymously with a donor prior to donation.  It's good value for money as well.  Renew and Nurture are the two egg donation agencies I know of there.  Contact with both has shown them to have good integrity.
Olivia


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## DapperDan (Aug 14, 2006)

olivia m said:


> Hi
> Section 20.1 of the new (8th) edition of the HFEA Code of Practice states,
> The Centre should give people seeking treatment with donated gametes or embryos -
> a. relevant non-identifying information about donors whose gametes are available to them, including the goodwill message and the pen-portrait (if available).


Hmm, I'm not keen on that. I wrote mine with the understanding that it would only be supplied, at the very least, once a child is born.


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## drownedgirl (Nov 12, 2006)

DapperDan said:


> Hmm, I'm not keen on that. I wrote mine with the understanding that it would only be supplied, at the very least, once a child is born.


I doubt it's retrospective? You donated some time ago?


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## indekiwi (Dec 23, 2008)

DapperDan,

I'm sure I would also be peeved if I had donated gametes on one understanding and then was told that a new policy or rules were now in force and that I couldn't opt out of these.  

I'm not sure if it gives any comfort at all, but the information that I was provided at my last clinic would never have enabled to me to have tracked my donor down - there was no suggestion, for example, about where the donor lived or had grown up, or which educational establishments she had attended, and although I knew she had a child, I wasn't told whether she was married / partnered / single.  I was told, however, the reason for donation, and about general interests etc.  It was enough generic information to give more of a 3D picture to any resulting child if and when they had an interest in knowing more, but fell short of what would be available to the child once it turned 18.  In one sense, the information is meaningless for recipients until such time they have a successful pregnancy unless they are super insistent that the donor they are matched with is, for example, an ardent football fan / stamp collector or describes themselves in a way that has particular resonance - "athletic" / "arty" / "independent" / "creative" / "successful" or whatever - and believe that genetic material will carry these hobbies and qualities down the line, so to speak.  Since there are so many would-be recipients compared to the number of donors, and the wait times for matching will increase in proportion to the number of characteristics that a recipient might think important, I'm not sure how "crucial" most recipients will find this extra information...particularly since most of us would be sharpening our elbows to be matched as soon as we could unless there was a real deal breaker involved (religion, medical background, physical characteristics and intelligence - however one would measure this - being the ones that come to mind from reading various posts on FF).  

A-Mx


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## DapperDan (Aug 14, 2006)

I finished my 6 month quarantine period mid 2007, so a little over 2 years now.  Although my pen portrait doesn't contain any true identifying information, there are some big clues in there for many people in my town to easily identify me.  Whilst my family are young, I would like to remain as anonymous as possible so I shall take this matter up with the clinic.

indekiwi - it sounds like you were given information from 'page 1' of the donor information sheet.  The pen portrait is on page 2 and I went into much greater detail about myself and background believing that would only be disclosed to parents (rather than prospective parents).


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