# Hysterical screaming/Tantrums 2yr old



## Poppets Mammy (Mar 7, 2011)

Hi guys, 1st post in the post placement section - get me!  

Our LO is 2 and a half yrs old

She's been home 1 and a half weeks (still very early days I know)

She's settled great, a rocky 1st day mainly with lots of confusion and upset but she's quickly adapted to living here and hasn't asked to go back to foster carers for quite a few days now, she's knows here is home now and we are mammy and daddy.

We had problems with rejection towards mammy in intros and the 1st few days as some of you may know as I had many reassuring replies - Thank you for that. Things have improved immensely and her new favourite word is Mam, Mam, Mam - hahaha  

She is a typical 2 yr old, she thinks she is independent, she is very stubborn. We are giving her lots of attention, giving her independence with support and choices where possible. We go out every day at her request, she is just so busy and wants to be out and about all the time, she doesn't like being cooped up. She has a very very limited attention span, her go to answer is NO, I'm constantly being asked why or what's that? (I'm reassured that is all normal for a 2yr old).

BUT . . OMG the tantrums. I know 2yr olds are know for them. I know it's worse when she's tired or something has confused or upset her, or when she's frustrated through slightly limited speech. But it's when she doesn't get what she wants ie: more chocolate, a toy in a shop etc. she screams and does this awful fake cry. It's dreadful and very loud, sometimes she stomps about as well. That's fine, we are ignoring it, not giving attention to negative behaviour, once she's calmed down we explain the situation and talk to her and she has started spontaneously apologising for her behaviour. She is learning and quickly. 

Discipline wise she tends to respond to being told to stop doing something and we give her an explanation as to why. Sometimes she just pushes things to far and needs telling off, like swinging on a door handle which she will end up breaking if she doesn't stop it, squeezing the dogs so tight their eyes are going to pop out, standing on furniture I'm scared she's gonna fall off, hitting me when she's having a 'I don't like mammy' moment. I think we only tell her off when it's dangerous behaviour and she's told firmly but calmly, other mischievous or attention seeking behaviour we ignore. I've started the 'I'm going to count to 3 and I expect you to stop XYZ. She's been responding to it pretty well considering its new to her. If she doesn't stop XYZ after the count of 3 I simply move her away from what she is doing. No naughty step, no putting her in a room etc, nothing too harsh really but just making a point of 'you need to stop that or I will stop you doing it'. We've not needed to use it a lot but when we have she's been hysterical and the fake scream/cry turns into real tears and uncontrollable shouting for a cuddle off daddy (her favourite parent at the moment, and she wants daddy regardless of whether its him who has told her off). DH tells her to calm down and then he will talk to her, cuddle her. But sometimes she doesn't for a while. Is this actual distress, should we be comforting her??

I don't want to be too harsh on her so early on, but she is responding well to our routine and boundaries and some behaviour is just simply unacceptable and needs intervention. What are your thoughts on what we are doing at the min??

Any advise is welcome, don't want to be damaging the progress we've made all ready with her.

I've just stumbled on this section of FF so apologies if I'm repeating a question already answered. 

Thanks in advance
Can't wait = Mammy to a little Poppet (need to change my forum name, lol)
Xx


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## GERTIE179 (Apr 20, 2005)

Hi Poppets mummy 

If you look at my post from a few weeks ago, there is great advice. My LO is younger but omg the tantrums were huge. Whilst some of this is him and a result of his early trauma, few weeks later they are definately less and much more normal.

I think the comment that struck most with me is LO is going through so much confusion and turmoil that whilst on surface they appear to be adapting/settling well, their world is upside down and so they are always in flight/fight mode underneath. That's why the tantrums come on fast and furious over very little. It's hard to see that in that moment ESP when you are still learning about each other but I can now see this in my LO.
It sounds like you are doing a wonderful job. The thing that worked for me best and allowed LO to build their trust was being with him when tantruming. Not giving it attention as such but definately recognising they were upset and I could make them feel better then distract when red mist had cleared a little.

X


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## Poppets Mammy (Mar 7, 2011)

Thanks for the reply Gertie, I'll have a look back at your post and read the replies. I agree with your comment about LO's looking settled on the surface, we have to keep reminding ourselves she's only been here a short period of time as sometimes I think we get carried away and expect too much of her. She's doing so well really and we need remember she's only 2yrs and has had a very confusing move to a new family where there's new expectations and boundaries etc. I had never thought of the fight or flight response but I can most certainly see that in her behaviour in heinsite now so thanks for that.

 xx


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## GERTIE179 (Apr 20, 2005)

Oh and go easy on yourselves. It's a slow game - I was caught up in the SW & FC comments that LO was doing so well and he had surpassed all our expectations but I was still taken back by the intensity of the tantrums and how long he could hold out for (compared to all other Los I've cared for). Slowly building up the trust works in the long run - I need to keep reminding myself of this but as soon as I adapted my view the relationship between LO and I got sooo much better and stronger.
X


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

Congratulations on your daughter.  What an incredibly emotional time.

We had our little girl placed at 18 months and she's nearly 2 1/2 now.  She was also very agitated and active on placement.  She still is to a degree, although we can now calm her a lot better.  We never used to be able to calm her at all so she would just get more and more wired until she blew up, normally over things related to taking care of her, or something she couldn't have of course.

I would be wary about ignoring your daughter when she is misbehaving/tantruming.  Ignoring behaviour is one thing, but I'm told that adopted children can easily see being ignored as being abandoned all over again.  When my daughter really really tantrums I tend to stay close to her, not give what she's doing a huge amount of credit, and talk to her quite calmly.  Sometimes I have to restrain her, as she can hit/kick/bite/scratch me or her.  When she's raged herself out, she gets lots of cuddles and love and reassurance.  She does not, however, get what she wanted, which used to often set the tantrums off again and we could have a bit of a cycle of it.  We had quite a bit of help from an excellent psychologist with Wyxling after a very difficult handover.  She advised us to take advantage of the tantrums because when toddlers have really raged themselves out and they come out the other side, they're emotionally very young, just a baby, and very vulnerable, and that's when you need to be there for them, not try to reason with them or explain, but just cuddle/hold/lots of love and reassurance (but still no chocolate of course!).  Essentially we were told that if you have to have the tantrums, take advantage of the aftermath to build the relationship.  If she's very independent you might also be able to use that time to get her to let you baby her a bit.  I often find after a big rage Wyxling will let me bottle feed her (although it's just cold water in a juice cup) like a baby, and maybe sit on my lap to play little singing games etc that she used to be far too active to settle for.

My husband and I argued a lot about Wyxling's "crying" when she first came here.  He often says she fake cries, I feel that even though she's not genuinely crying, the distress is real, so we give it some acknowledgment and try to move her on from there.

I am very wary about giving in to demands for cuddles from a particular parent when there is upset over discipline.  I think however hard it is, the person who upsets them should where possible be the same person who calms them, even if it's harder for that person to do.  My daughter always screams for me and it absolutely tears at my heart strings.  I normally go over while my husband holds her and give her a little kiss, and when she screams for me I say of course we'll have a big cuddle as soon as she's had her cuddle with Daddy, and she's very upset so I'll just go and get a tissue or a cold drink or a cold cloth etc so I have something positive to leave the room for, and then come back as she's calming and we'll have our cuddle after she's had one with Daddy.

It does get easier, although sometimes it gets harder first.

I hope things are getting easier and you're enjoying having your little girl home with you.

Best wishes,

Wyxie


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## Poppets Mammy (Mar 7, 2011)

Wyxie - Thank you for your reply. Things have improved significantly since my post, thankfully. The few tantrums she does have at the min tend to be more directed at DH, he's now back at work and she's experiencing some seperation anxiety due to that and seems to get very intense and almost angry towards. It's as if he just can't give her enough attention and all her emotions just burst out all at once. Bless her   But we are working on it and managing it well - I think  

Don't worry we aren't ignoring her, we ignore minor mischief ie. things we would prefer she didn't do but actually she's not doing any harm or just exploring etc. When she's doing something 'naughty' or dangerous she gets calmly but firmly told not to do it or removed from the situation depending on what it is. She either just does what's asked or has a strop (a lot less full on tantrum then previously) but we don't ignore that or leave her alone, we calmly talk her out of it and explain why she can't do XYZ. 

I hear what your saying about the fake crying and I've certainly taken a lot of your info and advice on board. She Deff can fake cry though but I can tell the difference between that and genuine crying/frustration/distress. If she's fake crying (mainly if she's not getting something she wants like more chocolate) we just simply tell her that she won't get what ever it is by making that noise and she stops, it's literally like a switch she just stops it instantly and gives you a look back 😠 Hahaha like 'Im so annoyed that little stunt didn't work, how dare you deny me more chocolate'. But I can tell when she's actually crying, even if it is part of a tantrum I can tell when she's expressing something rather then just trying her luck. 

Thanks again for your post, I found it very interesting reading


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

Glad to hear things are improving, it sounds like you're doing a great job.  It's hard at first isn't it, dealing with the behaviour caused largely by the distress of the move, without really knowing what your child is like and how they try to get what they want/respond to different stuff.

Wyxling didn't make as much fuss about chocolate, oddly, given she had food issues, but really, really weird stuff.  Like my knee support, or the rather nice sports motor bike outside the doctors the first time I took her.


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