# Late ovulation (or no ovulation) post IVF? Desperate to know!!



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Hello...

As many of you know, I've just my first IVF last month - BFN. I am hoping to do another in November, if I can afford it.

But I'm also trying naturally with my donor this month (as in using a syringe.) Yet despite being already on day 11 of my cycle, my fertility monitor is on the low bar, indicating no ovulation in sight yet. (usually it would be the middle by day eight or nine.) 

Could the IVF meds have caused me not to ovulate this month, or ovulate late? I'm desperate to know this because my donor is on a tight schedule and we'd hoped to start tomorrow. Would appreciate some advice!!

Thank you, S


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Sally,

The answer is I'm afraid, yes.  That is why they often ask you to wait 2-3 cycles before starting again.  Your body may not be back to normal on the next cycle.

Not sure how old you are - sadly as we age we also have more anovulatory cycles so not sure whether this is also an issue for you?

Sorry to be a bit negative.  I hope you do ovulate though and can have a go this month.

Best,

Daisy
x


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks Daisy...

I'm forty-two, but I have to say, that I've never had an anovulatory cycle in recent history, at least not that I know of. Having said that, I've never had IVF before last month, but last January, I did have IUI with injectibles (in which the drugs were just as aggressive, if not more so, because I did a very low does drugs of IVF) and that made my next ovulation a bit later than usual. 

Also, they are  hoping to do another IVF on me in November...


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

Hi Sally

Hope you're doing a bit better hunni    It's quite possible that your cycle will be up in the air this month as it is still trying to sort itself out from the drugs you pumped into your body.  As Daisy said you are normally advise to wait three months (but for us oldies they usually give us two) before you start again to allow for things to settle down.

You may be lucky that the timing will go to plan but please don't set your hopes on it, especially if you're dong IVF again next month.  It might be more beneficial to have a month off where you can relax a bit and enjoy yourself as this whole business is very stressful.  

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Much love
Allison xxx


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thank you Allison...

That's great advice as always. 

I think I may have a go a few times naturally but I won't set much store by it. I know that a pregnancy is unlikely and I'm sure I won't suffer the devastation that I did a few weeks ago. 

It's funny though - monitor is still on low today but my temperature has dipped and my cervical mucous is eggwhitey, so may have a go tonight. (Sometimes cysts, which can be caused by meds, may block the monitor's reading as well.)

Worth a shot, is it not?

XA


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

Best of luck for tonight hunni, miracles can happen as we've seen so many times`on FF


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## 11th hour (Feb 4, 2006)

worth a shot of what....? fnar fnar!! 

get that sperm up there !! it needs to be up there loitering aorund for the egg.As ever its a ladies perogative to be late and a man must wait.. so dont worry about doing it a tad early. i was told/read that conception done in that oldy worldy natural style ( cor its like the dark ages innit) works best when the sperm are hanging around a bit , scuffing their heels and gettin a bit desperate until La diva follicle reveals her most intiimate pearl.

oooh, im gettin myself goin here...

re: hormones back on track... what about munching some MACA until the next cycle. also where are you doing your IVF"S. why dont you cheap skate it like me and do it abroad? more bang for your buck! ( fnar fnaR)


xxxx


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Yeah, we inseminated on Tuesday night, last night, and again tonight. I surged yesterday and this morning. It may be too late tonight - ie I may already have ovulated - but I thought it was worth a try. 

If my IVF doesn't work in November, I had thought of doing one in America in January if I can afford it, but it's more expensive there, not less - not least because they put up to eight embryos back.

How much has it cost  you abroad?

What's MACA, by the way? 

XS


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi Sally,

I think you would be hard pressed to find a US clinic who would put back 8 embies back in my view - 6 perhaps.  Obviously, you would have to make 6 embies in the first place!!  It isn't more expensive because they put more embryoys back though!!  I probaby spent about £15,000 (inc. travel and accomm and acupuncture etc) doing a cycle at Cornell in 2004 - I had 6 embies replaced. 

If you are thinking of the US, then personally I would only consider 2 clinics.  CCRM or Cornell.  They are the two top clinics in the US (and the world) and both have the best over 40 live birth results.  Don't forget, it is not only the number of embies replaced, it is also the quality of the embryology lab, the RE, the protocol and the clinics stats that count.  

Finally, it is also really important (in my opinion) that you do as much eliminatory testing as possible before a cycle to rule out any common implantation failure issues in order to give yourself the best chance.  Sadly, this did not happen for me until I had had 3 miscarriages in all my 3 ivfs with my own eggs (age 44 - 44.5) including my Cornell cycle.  I was found later on to have clotting and autoimmune issues which could have been easily treated..... a hard lesson sadly, as it was then too late for me and my own eggs and I had run out of money.

Anyway, sorry about the book!

Best,

Daisy
x


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## 11th hour (Feb 4, 2006)

hiya,


MACA is a peruvian root that is supposed to be excellent fr regulating hormones and starting i think wit the pituitary gland.

My cycle at fertimed cost 2100 euro for icsi+Ivf and them i spent another 800-1000 euros on drugs plus flights and accom. i reckon i spent around 3 grand in all.

Daisy: i am very interested to know more about the " quality of the embriology lab "and all the other stuff you put in your message" becuase as it was my first IVF cycle. i didnt know if fertimed were doing a wonderful job on me or not. I was diappointed about the lack of monitoring because i expected a bit more observation at my age. I also found that Dr Sobek didnt respond very interestingly when i asked him how he would tweak the protocol for next time. 

Im sure they are good enough but does an older girl need to spend a bit more and up the quality of clinic.I need to figure this out before i spend another 3 grand.

Can you point me to where you began your research/understanding of these finer issues.

thanks imogen


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## Pammy (Oct 16, 2005)

HI Daisy,

What is Factor V Leiden & MTHFR + auto immune factors 
Is that killer t-cell issues and more? Would you mind explaining?


Thanks,
Pam


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks again everyone...

I met with Mrs. Norgand at Create Health today and she did a scan and thinks I am in good shape for another IVF in November. She doesn't seem to think I  have clotting issues though I must remember to ask her again about this. She did a scan today and found around nine follicles in total (I'm on day 16 of my cycle.) Lining is slighlty thin at 6.2 (she'd like it to be 7) but not so thin that she feels I should take progesterone, which could interfere with future stims. She basically seems to think I'm in very good nick for my age. 

Daisy, if I do go to the US, I would go with the Sher Institute in Los Angeles. They have an excellent reputation and in fact did succeed in giving me a chemical pregnancy back in January - IUI with injectibles. I'm still in touch with Dr. Quintero of the institute and it was he who said he'd put back up to 8 embryos on day three.

Having said this, Mrs. Norgand at Create Health vehemently disagrees with this practice and really feels that the number of embryos has very little to do with success rate.

Any views on this?


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## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sally - was that 9 ie. antral follicle count?


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi Sally,

Not sure what Create's success rates are but frankly your consultant sounds plain wrong! How does she know whether you have a clotting issue or not without testing you - that sounds very odd indeed. I would absolutely have as many tests now as possible and not waste potential time continuing to cycle without knowing whether anything is wrong with you. You have to ask yourself why did you have a chem. pg with Sher and why did they not do any testing on you How do you know you are in good nick fertility wise? etc. etc.

Glad you had a good experience with Sher. Personally do not rate SIRM at all and don't think they have very good over 40 success rates. However, they are at least willing to run m/c testing plus immune issues and obviously it is a bonus that they will replace lots of embies. You just have to make them first!

Your doctor is absolutely wrong about the number of embies. You may like to cite research to her that contradicts what she says. However, number of embryos alone is only one part of the puzzle for over 40s. Cornell's research recently stated that women age 45 are more likely to have a live birth is they make at least 5 oocytes (however there was an 85% miscarriage rate for those that got pg).

http://patient-research.elsevier.com/patientresearch/displayAbs?key=S0015028206031785&referrer=www.google.co.uk%252Fsearch%253Fhl%253Den%2526rlz%253D1T4GGIT_en___GB207%2526q%253Dcornell%252Bivf%252B%252Bage%252B45%2526meta%253D

The other important factor is the quality of the clinic's embryologists and lab and the quality of the protocol you are on. So a number of factors, but certainly women over 40 generally need to produce and replace as many embies as poss.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T6K-4HT6D74-G&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F31%2F2005&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=141315c493182c9cf3775886ca91f74b

Her attitude just confirms to me that so many fertility doctors in this country have very little knowledge of fertility. Any old gynae can become a 'fertility' doctor in this country unlike the US where you have to study and quality as a Reproductive Endocrinologist before you can work in the fertility field.

Rant over! Wishing you all the best.

Daisy
X


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Daisy - 

Perhaps my doctor is partly basing her info on the fact that around a year and a half ago, I had a termination at six weeks (which sounds ironic, I know, but there were extreme circumstances surrounding that). She has put me on soluble aspirin but no, doesn't seem concerned about clotting issues though I will ask her again.

If you don't mind me asking, where do you get your info about Sher not having a good success rate in women over forty? I thought they had a very good reputation and my doctor there says he's just got a forty-four year old happily pregnant. 

Personally, I'm  happy to have eight embryos back but in an ideal world, I would prefer for the treatment to work here; first of all, it's MUCH more expensive in the states. Secondly, I've built up a trust with Create Health and feel they are beginning to know my body. And I did respond very well to their protocol despite not having a BFP. 

What were the other American organisations you recommended, where are they based (I assume Cornell is on the Cornell campus) and can you give me some idea of the costs?

Thanks

S


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## 11th hour (Feb 4, 2006)

sally- what have your protocols been?


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## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Short protocol: .5 ml of brusserilin every night (from day 2 of period) and on day three of period (I think) 150 iu of FSH as well.

On day 11, I injected with 5000 iu of HcG.

And yours?


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