# Can anyone suggest anything else?



## libra (Jun 23, 2006)

Hi,everyone,hope you are all well.
Just looking to see if anyone can suggest anything else that I could add to this my last & final fresh cycle.

I've had loads of bloods checked-Anticardio lipids,Factor V leidin,clotting,thryroid + others.
Found to have slight clotting & NKC abnormalities-so having 75mg Asprin & 15mg Prednisolone.(seen some suggestions 25mg better-so will ask about that)

Had a small polyp removed at last.Hysteroscopy/d&c results fine.
Only one cycle bled a few days early-so ? assuming progesterone ok.
Get lots of eggs(12-24),good fertilisation,good quality,excess embryos to freeze,got 5 blasts on last cycle(1st time with blasts).
I take pregnancy multivits,selenium supplement & brazil nuts.
Due to exessive follicles(30-50ish ) drink at least 2l water & try 1l milk during & beyond stims.
4 natural conceptions,only one through treatment.

Just want to feel I'm throwing everything I've got at this cycle,so I'll have no regrets.(had lots after others for various reasons)
Any suggestions gratefully received.

Good luck to everyone 
love Libra.xxx


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

Hi Libra

I'll be willing you along for this cycle and keeping everything crossed that it will go smoothly and give you not only your BFP but longed for bubba in your arms!

It looks as though you've got pretty much everything covered.  There's only thing I could suggest re the early bleeding.  I bleed early on my first 3 fresh cycles and on the 4th they gave me Pregnyl injections (1,500) during my 2ww to kick start my body into pg mode.  I didn't get a BFP (due to other reasons we've now found out!) but it did stop me from bleeding early.

Perhaps you could also look at Heparin as well as baby aspirin (I will be on both of these on my next cycle from day 1 of stimming) and my con has also said I can take Viagra, if I want, to improve my lining.

It sounds as though you have some great embies and with the right 'tweaking' to your tx will be on the road to mummyhood.  The very, very best of luck to you.

Allison xx


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## libra (Jun 23, 2006)

Hi,Allison,
sorry to read you've been through the mill.How you doing on the tests?

thanks for your advice-will ask about those drugs.

Never actually had progesterone levels checked-but on 4th cycle had light loss few days before test day(but then that clinic only did urine test-so I do wonder whether it was something happening  ).
After this latest FET I didn't lose very much at all(sorry TMI).On scan day lining ok but bit surprised at how light things were especially after BFP-so worried even got scan done to check I didn't need ERPC.So have a little worry over progesterone + lining now.

Thanks again.Good luck with the tests.Wishing you success with next cycle  
love libra.xx


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

Gurrrrr....I've just writted you a long post and it's got lost in the ether  

Sorry going to be brief now!

At our appointment in Brussels last week we saw the top guy at the hospital as our usual con was off sick. Prof DeVroey is one of the top IVF specialists in Europe and has pioneered new approaches to tx over the years....you can imagine we were delighted our con was off sick!!

Anyway with regards to your lining, I also have worrys about mine and this is what he said!

Although Viagra hasn't yet been proven there is absolutely no harm in me taking it and it should increase the blood flow to my uterus making it lovely and thick for my bubba to implant.  I should start taking it after EC

He is also going to put me on long protocol this time as I respond too well to short protocol and always have to have my trigger on Day 9 before my Oestrogen levels go sky high...usually my lining is still quite thin at this time.  He will d/reg me for about two weeks and then put me on very lose dose (150mg) to cook me nice and slowly.  Not sure if your have long or short protocol but it could be something to think about.

Do you take Progesterone after EC?  I have 600mg up my whatsit daily and my clinic are very insistant that I lie down for at least 20 mins after inserting them (hard I know when you work) in order for the progesterone to do it's stuff.  If you take the Pregnyl shots after EC they will definatly help with Progesterone.

I also asked about PGD but Prof DeVroey didn't think it was neccesary, I was really chuffed as he was the first gyne/con who said it WASN'T my age that was the problem, in fact he said my biological age was that of a 30 year old.  It felt great not to be fobbed off by statistics.  I would think your biological age must also be much lower as you respond so well to the drugs.

We have an appointment with our con in Luxembourg tomorrow to get our genetic test results and also the biopsy results on our bubba.  Prof DeVroey also wants me to have a Hyseroscopy and I should be able to have my coagulation tests done soon.  So it's all go over here!

Have you got a date to start tx again?  We should be gong again in September (d/regging end of Aug), although I haven't got my head around it yet, it all seems a little daunting at the mo.

The very best of luck hunni, let's keep in touch and compare notes.
Much love
Allison xx


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## libra (Jun 23, 2006)

hi,Allison,
wishing that this year gets better for you.Sorry the year's been tough so far,but you sound very positive.So good to see someone dynamic to get another outlook on things.Your ovaries do really well as well-nice to feel young!!
Thanks for your advice.

Always had long protocol-massive response each time-so everyone happy to do same.
I do have cyclogest post ec-usually had 2x400mg post ec & for fet in previous clinics(didn't in this latest clinic on fresh cycle as et cancelled due to polyp)so don't know what their usual is for fresh cycle.But for the FET with them I had 3x400mg.So was a bit worried at light af after miscarriage as well-lighter than normal.They said at scan pre et-lining ok-but don't know what thickness.I'm sure it was fine-just trying to make sure nothing gets missed or messed up as it has before. .Probably worrying needlessly. 

We decided against PGD as well-partly because of cost-we went for blasts instead,just to try to prove one way or another if embryos were of any quality-thrilled to get 5 on last cycle-but got frozen due to polyp-lost 4 best in thaw . But the worse one gave +ve short term. 

I too am daunted at the thought of doing it all again-decided to go straight for it after 1 normal AF-had 1st down reg jab last night.Currently off work with everything that's happened & old back injury playing up,but improving-sick note due to run out just before ?ec date.So may just tie in with treatment.Every time I've tried to work through stimms I can't survive the day as so bloated & painful-expected to run round all day & can't get enough fluids in(very,very bad boss-another story)

Wishing you every bit of good luck & success for Sept.It'll soon be here.
Take care,
love libra.xx


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

Ohhhhh my goodness you're on your way again!  The very, very best of luck hunni        I hope you manage to stay off work until after ET, can you get another sick note if neccesary?

Will be keeping everything crossed for you
Allison xx


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Hi Libra

Wishing you all the very best for this cycle and so sorry to hear of the battle you've had to endure so far.

This may be a bit left field, and depending on how soon you plan to start your next cycle may not fit well timing-wise, but have you thought about acupuncture?

Think there is now some research evidence this can help with blood flow to the uterus?  Also Care, locally, have published figures which show a trend for better outcomes where acupuncture has taken place pre and post transfer.  My clinic (which is pretty cautious and Orthodox in other respects) has also suggested it.

I have an underlying clotting disorder and have been having acupuncture for a bit (currently 2WW in 1st IVF cycle at the moment).  Whatever else, it feels pretty good for helping to manage stress.

Very best wishes


Sally Kate


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## Ellie.st (Mar 11, 2005)

Dear Libra

I just wanted to wish you good luck and to say that I agree with Sally Kate about the acupuncture pre- and post-transfer.  I had acupuncture for the first time on my third cycle - don't know if it was what made the difference but it didn't do any harm and, as Sally Kate says, there is research to suggest it can help IVF outcomes.  I had the "German protocol" on ET day  (as well as sessions before EC) - if you search this site, you will find more info on the German protocol, including stats from research that was done on it.

Good luck.   

Ellie


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## libra (Jun 23, 2006)

Hi all,
thanks for your replies.

Allison-thanks for your wishes.Hoping to get sick note extended-by the time this one runs out I such be big & bloated again,fingers crossed.Bit scary!

Sally Kate-how you doing with your cycle?

Ellie St-huge congratulations on your lovely bundle-wonderful to hear of successes

Sally Kate & Ellie St-
I'm having accupunture for my back(not specialised in fertility,trained physiotherapist)-but can't see a way around having it for IVF.The distance & travelling to the clinic-it takes at least 3.5hours.My DP doesn't drive,so last EC & ET on FET we stayed overnight.So I can't see a way of having it locally & around the time of EC/ET near clinic.
Only on day 3 of down reg on long protocol-when did you start your accupunture?Not sure whether to try & organise something between the home & clinic area?

lots of luck to everyone,
love Libra.xx


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## libra (Jun 23, 2006)

PS,
how did you go about finding an appropriately qualified person?Roughly what's the cost per session?

love Libra.xx


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## Gizzle (Jan 13, 2007)

Hi Libra

I thought I would say something here as a lot of what you said to begin with really struck a chord with me and I wanted to share my experience with you.  My DH and I embarked on this journey at the start of the year.  At 42 already, I didn't want to waste any time and went straight to the Lister who were recommended by our NHS hospital who could offer us no further help.  I've never been made to feel 'old', FSH levels were never an issue - we just got on with it.  We started out with the view that we would throw everything at this, our one and only attempt.  One really irritating thing was that I virtually got to EC on my first cycle, and was advised to abandon due to the detection of polyps.  I think you had a similar experience.  I was devastated at the time as I felt these could easily have been dealt with earlier, and I was disappointed to have gone through weeks of downregging and stimming with no outcome.  I was also concerned that I wouldn't respond to the drugs as well again.  

After one AF we started again.  I was on the long protocol - downregging with the pill & synarel, then stimming with Gonal F increased to 450iu after a slow start.  I had acupuncture throughout - in fact, I started in January so by EC in April, it was a well established pattern.  I found my acupuncturist by researching on the net.  Luckily for me, she is actually very local.  She's a fertility specialist and the majority of her patients are women undergoing IVF treatment.  I'm convinced she has helped me.  At EC, I had 13 eggs, 12 of which fertilised.  They were all Grade 1 and described by the embryologist as 'beautiful and shiny' and they all multiplied daily.   And here's what I wanted to say to you....  We did decide to have PGS as we wanted to do everything we possibly could to ensure success.  Nine out of our 12 'beautiful and shiny' embryos were abnormal, including 2 which tested positive for Downs Syndrome.  The three good ones were developed a little further, not quite blast, and 2 were implanted.  Sadly, the third one perished.  ET was a lovely, positive experience - I had acupuncture before but missed for my appointment after the procedure, as it was delayed.   Two weeks later we got our BFP.  I'm certain that our success was down to PGS.  It just helps the embryologist to select the best possible embryos to implant.  Without it, we could have had a BFN with no rhyme or reason.  I know it's so expensive, but do consider it.  You have produced an amazing number of eggs - no wonder you get so sore and bloated, poor you! - but regardless of biological age, they will not all be normal and it's so hard to pick the good from the not so good.  I'm sorry to sound so evangelical about it, but I get so upset for people who've had such difficult journeys and I wish it could be BFPs all round.

I wish you - and everyone else - the best of luck with your treatment.  I hope you have some wonderful news soon.

Gizzle x


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

Hi hun

Just wanted to let you know that our genetic tests came back as normal today and also the biopsy on our bubba showed it was normal.  Another hurdle overcome and I'm actually glad that everything was normal...perhaps they will stop saying all my eggs are cr*p now!

Hope the d/regging is going well and you're not feeling too awful  

I also had acupuncture on my last cycle and managed to have a session on the morning of ET but not afterwards.  I definately think it helps and keeps you very relaxed through tx.  Why not see if you can find one in the area where you have transfer, maybe your clinic can give you a recommendation?

Gizzle...I'm interested in what you say about PGD but I'm really still unsure about it.  At first I was absolutely sure I would have it on my next attempt but I when I spoke to my con about it he admitted that they can throw away normal embies in the process.  It's such a dilema to know what is best but I really worry about the thought of losing normal embies  

Much love to you all
Allison xx


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## Ellie.st (Mar 11, 2005)

Dear Libra

I think ideally you would start the acupuncture before you started your cycle but I didn't actually start having sessions until I was at least a week (maybe more) into d/r.  (Sorry, can't remember exactly, brain still like mush even though our wee poppet is now six months old!).  According to the German protocol (I think) the main thing is to have sessions directly before and after ET.  We lived about a five-hour round trip away from our clinic and I was really lucky in that our acupuncturist travelled through with me for the day.  However, another option might be to find someone based in the town where your clinic is.  It might be worth speaking to your clinic as some of them are aware of the research on acupuncture, and supportive of it (or at least not obstructive).  My clinic was very conservative in most things but surprised me by giving us a room for the acupuncture sessions when I asked.  (I had thought I would need to try to organise a hotel room).  If you go down the acupuncture route, I think it's important to find someone who knows about IVF and the German protocol.  I asked mine lots of questions on the phone before committing to go and see her.

Best wishes

Ellie

PS: thanks for the congratulations!


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## libra (Jun 23, 2006)

Hi,Gizzle,
firstly huge congratulations-so pleased for you-hope you are enjoying it.So glad you got that well deserved BFP.
Sorry you had trouble with polyp as well -I asked for mine to be removed before the cycle & was refused-then they coudn't understand why I got so upset when ET cancelled because of it!But at least we got 5 blasts to freeze-shame 4 lost on thaw. 

thank you for your suggestions-PGS is something we looked into,but did decide against it-but then that was with our last clinic(who advise against lots of things).So will discuss it at next visit to new clinic.



Allison-so glad your results came back as normal,another feather in your cap-proves age doesn't always mean you're past it.Time will come round quick now for your next cycle.
Don't think d/reg has kicked in yet-just mild PMS-but on past experiences-look out,I think I get every side effect in the book 
Ellie-not surpised your brain still in a bit of turmoil-must be wonderful-but such a vast change to everything with a new baby.Your clinic sound very helpful.

think tomorrow I'll look into accupunture options

take care everyone,
love libra.xx


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## Sally Kate (Jun 13, 2007)

Hi Libra


Thanks for your reply.  My cycle has gone better than I dared hope so far - 14 eggs/4 decent grade embryos on day 3.  Decided to transfer two and have two frozen. Am keeping everything crossed! Only downside is mild OHSS - looks like I have been inflated with a footpump!

My sister (who has similar clotting issues and became pregnant on her first IVF cycle a few weeks ago) found our acupuncturist by chance - we struck lucky as she works closely with another local IVF clinic and specialises in fertility issues.  Her standard rate is around £35 per session, but she charges a bit more for an initial consultation.  In terms of finding someone good, I think there is an acupuncture thread on the complementary therapies board - might be worth posting there to see if anyone can make a reccommendation in an area you can reach on transfer day?

Have been following the discussion around PGS with interest - Gizzle,really glad it worked for you.  I  had wondered whether it might help me given my history of recurrent miscarriage, and had a consultation with one of the leading clinics.  However, they were not enthusiastic, given my age and history, citing the need to generate large numbers of good quality embryos to make testing worthwhile (unlikely at my age - although Gizzle's experience suggest this is not inevitably the case), and the potential damage to otherwise healthy ones in the biopsy process. 

Hope the cycle is going OK?

Very best wishes

Sally Kate


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## libra (Jun 23, 2006)

Hi,Sally Kate,
thanks for your reply.Hope you're tummy is going down.Well done on getting 4 good embryo's.Good luck for your results  .

love libra.xx


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