# Is it a numbers game or just never going to happen?!



## Missymoo82 (Jul 17, 2012)

I know nobody can give me the answers I’m looking for I think I just need to vent. We have just had our 4th unsuccessful IVF. This time a DEFET. I started to bleed 8 days after transfer & got my BFN today. Another 2 good quality blastocysts transferred into my useless body!!!

I have never ever been pregnant in 8 years of trying & 4 IVF’s. Can that be right or is there just something completely wrong with me?!

I don’t want to offend or annoy anyone by my ‘me’ post. I’m just lost…. 

I've now had 7 embryos transferred & have nothing apart from an empty bank balance & broken heart to show for it.

Has anyone else on here been trying for as long as me & also never achieved a pregnancy? I feel like I’m the only one. I’m not saying it’s preferable to be able to get pregnant & miscarriage / ectopic but at the very least you know your body can actually conceive. I know that is a very sweeping statement to make & don’t get me wrong I know the heartache ladies go through on here so I’m not in anyway trying to be-little or make my situation sound worse.

I had a sixth sense at the start of this ivf journey that it was going to be a long & painful journey but did I really expect to get to 4 IVF’s?! I used to see other’s ladies signatures when I was starting out & think to myself how do they keep going on with so many cycles & now look at me  

I really just don’t think my body knows what to do. Am I actually a real woman?! 

I feel like I’m on this never ending journey of heartache which I know the majority of you ladies on here are also experiencing. I just want a ‘normal family’ life. I’m not greedy I don’t need to win the lottery or marry Brad Pitt to be happy I just want a shot at a life with my lovely husband & a child. We have everything here ready to give & so much love!!! But for too long now everything just feels so flat & empty.

Do we just keep rolling the dice….. I’ve had 2 IVF’s with my own eggs & 2 IVF’s with DE, one fresh & one frozen. We aim to keep trying with donor eggs but are looking at changing to a cheaper clinic. I’m plagued with doubts should I keep going & getting into more debt or accept this is the life I’ve been given without children? My stubborn & determined side just won’t give up yet  

We’ve been through so much for the last few years it’s hard to believe. This whole infertility journey has brought up so many issues with my health, the strain on my marriage, losing friends, losing myself, debt etc. If I wrote it all down I don’t think anyone would believe me!!! I’ve had to accept so much along the way… that I will never conceive naturally, or with clomid, I have a low amount of eggs & not good quality, I need donor eggs, I have endo, I have raised cells etc etc

Yes its’ making me a stronger person but not a happier person. 

Yes I have a lot to be happy & thankful for & I am. I just want to be a mother though… do I not deserve to be?!

How much heartache do one couple have to go though? I’m surrounded by my family & friends & work colleagues racing on with their lives. Having child after child, going on family days out / holidays etc. Just living a normal & happy life yet they don’t even feel a tiny smidgen of the heartache we do?! Why??!! Have we been singled out to receive everyone’s heartache maybe! It’s my husbands 40th birthday on Monday & I hoped so much to give him the one thing he wants the most instead it will be more tears & upset.

I have taken immune drugs with my last 2 cycles, extra progesterone, anti-biotics, changed my diet completely. I even did a natural cycle so not to antagonise my body & the endo again! The harder I try the more I am failing.

I really didn’t want to get sucked into the whole expensive immune testing. I know now I have raised NK cells but what more can I have to treat immunes that I haven’t already tried even if I did have all the testing. I’ve had steroids, blood thinners, intralipids, aspirin, vitamins, omega 3, doxy, thyroxine. I’ve cut out anything that inflames my gut / endo like wheat, sugar & salt. I haven’t drunk alcohol since xmas 2011!!! I also had the endo scratch carried out on both my last 2 tries.

Yes I have severe endo but I keep getting told ivf bypasses it & after my op I seriously hoped my chances had gone up. I have been told by 4 different consultants now that there is no reason I can’t get pregnant. I don’t even know if it’s reassuring anymore to hear this as obviously there is a reason!!! I keep being told my uterus is great ‘just waiting for a baby’. My lining is always thick enough & triple layered & healthy looking.

Do we bite the bullet & head over to Serum for immune testing & treatment or head for a cycle in Spain with the same immune protocol. My head is leaning towards Spain as it’s so quick & easy to get to & practical for us but I know a lot of ladies on here swear by Serum. It’s just the thought of doing long & expensive trips to Athens after already spending so much & the time taken travelling to Cyprus this year.

Sorry for this huge essay if anyone has any wise words I would seriously appreciate them…..or a crystal ball would be handy  

xx


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## Coolish (Jul 10, 2012)

Hi there, sorry I couldn't ignore your post. 

We'd been trying for 8 years too, 1 OE IUI and 4 DE IVFs. So, it was basically my 6th attempt (5th DE IVF) that got me this bfp. I can completely understand everything you've said, as I've been there too. I don't have endo and have always been classed as 'unexplained', and especially in the Spanish clinic where I kept being told that everything was perfect - perfect environment (triple stripe), perfect sperm perfect embies, but the closest I got to a bfp was 2 chemicals. So something clearly wasn't perfect...

After my 4th DE IVF bfn last October (the day after my OH's birthday) I decided there must be something else that was causing this. I contacted Serum and did the hidden c test and it came back positive. Me and the OH then went on ABs for 25 days. I went out to Serum in March and had a hysto which showed loads of white patches where the infection had damaged my lining and nothing was ever likely to implant there, plus I had some polyps. This was all cut away and I had implantation cuts done at the same time. I'd had a hysto in Spain the previous year and they had merely done a 'look and see' and said my fibroids weren't blocking implantation and that everything looked fine (yeah I then went on to have 2 more failed cycles with them).

I've never had immunes testing but Serum popped me on steriods and ABs as part of my protocol (as well as asprin, clexane, intralipids etc). To my absolute shock, I got a bfp. This is my first bfp and I'm 48. 

I really wished I hadn't 'wasted' that second year at the Spanish clinic and had moved the Serum earlier. I'm not saying that the clinic in Spain was rubbish, but they seem to have good success rates with DE when there aren't any underlying issues. They've also changed some of their protocols now and do intralipids and the scratch. I clearly had some underlying issues and a clinic like Serum is used to getting ladies come along that have been trying for a long time. They treat you completely as an individual and Penny highlighted things even in my first telephone conversation with here, which made complete sense. The whole thing was a completely different experience and the ET was the most relaxed and easiest that I've ever had. 

I hope you can find the strength to find the right options for you and your OH. You haven't got a useless body, you just haven't found the right approach and protocol yet. Good luck xx


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## Missymoo82 (Jul 17, 2012)

Hi Cooljules thanks so much for your reply & congratulations   you have given me a lot of inspiration & good advice. I think the approach Serum seem to take is what we need now. I have my pot ready to send to test for hidden C   & i think i'm going to look at arranging to fly over for a consultation & some tests next month.

Thanks for taking the time to reply i think i needed some help in looking in the right direction. I'm so sick of second guessing every decision i make & doubting myself. I'm terrible at making decisions these days   think the amount of stress were all under on this board its no wonder tho  

Thanks again xx


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## Clarke12 (Apr 1, 2012)

Hi missymoo82,

I just wanted to post and say you are not alone  . We have been trying to conceive our second child for coming on 11 years, our dd is now 12.  We always get the comments oh well at least you have one  . I love my daughter more than life but I didn't want her to be an only child, I wanted her to have siblings she was close to and I've always wanted a big family. In the last 11 years we have never used contraception incase we were lucky enough to be that miracle and have had 2 unsuccessful ivf's, this would of been a lot more had we been able to afford it, I think I would try every month if I could as I just can't give up my hopes and dreams.  We are just about to start our 3rd and final attempt but I just can't seem to see it working and am just going through the motions it's been so long that we have been trying I just can't seem to imagine myself getting pregnant anymore but I feel I need to try this last time so I know I have given my all.  If you feel you are strong enough and are financially stable enough to continue this journey then carry on until your mind and body decides you have taken enough.  I know it's hard and I'm sorry I can't give a positive outcome but just wanted to let you know there is support out there  

Take care
Clarke12 xxx


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## KTHB (Mar 11, 2013)

Hi MissyMoo
Having also just got a BFN this morning I can completely associate with most of what you have said.  We have also been trying for 8 years and feel completely drained by everything we have been through.  In that time I have had one natural pregnancy which miscarried, 6 OE IVF's - 5 BFN's and 1 BPF which miscarried, 1 DE IVF BPF which miscarried and 1 DE FET which was todays BFN.    I am also told that there aren't any problems - just bad luck, which gets harder and harder to accept.  
Same as you I used to read peoples signatures and wonder how the hell these women were so brave to find the energy to keep going through so many emotional cycles.  Unfortunately I now know for myself.  Somehow we dust ourselves off, put the past behind us and focus on the dream.

Sorry that I can't give you a happy ending but you are not alone. I have 6 frozen embryos left but am really doubting if we will ever get our dream so it is good to read CoolJules response.  

I hope you are able to take the time to make the right decision for you on your next steps.  Every step of this horrendous journey is so blooming difficult and I really hope your dreams come true.

Cool Jules - Congratulations on your pregnancy

Clarke12 - Good luck with your next cycle, I think knowing when to stop is the hardest decision of all.  I have had 3 "final" cycles now  

xxx


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## Missymoo82 (Jul 17, 2012)

Just when I think my day can't get any worse my husband has packed a bag & walked out  

Think I might have just hit rock bottom


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## KTHB (Mar 11, 2013)

Oh no Missymoo.  There is nothing I can say to make you feel better but my heart goes out to you.  I obviously don't know the background but men really can be idiots sometimes, what a crap sense of timing  

Are you alone now?  Have you got family or friends you can be with - you need to drink wine and eat choclolate.

xxx


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## Mogster (Nov 1, 2012)

You are def not alone. We have been trying to conceive for a similar time period and I've NEVER had a positive test. I've never even had a positive on an ovulation test. I know how you feel and can relate to many of your comments. 

I'm sorry to read your post this evening. I hope things improve soon for you and your hubby is back soon so you can talk about the future and your next steps.
Take care


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## Butterfly girl (Mar 24, 2013)

I've just come across this thread. You are all
inspirational, strong women and we must stick together
through our pain and misfortunes.
I've been through my 3rd BFN IVF with DE in Athens.
Not sure of my next step.
For me it is so expensive as I travel from
Australia. So add on £1500 to every cycle and you'll
understand.
Not sure what to do next.
Maybe swap to Serum if Penny will have me.
( Im past cut off age )
I'm sure it's my body fighting the embryos that's
giving me BFN s cos everything else is fine.

Any advice

X Butterfly girl.


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## Leftleg (Oct 30, 2011)

Hi MissyMoo,

How are you doing today? I'm so so sorry you're going through all of this. I don't know if I can help at all but I feel I may be in a slightly similar position to you and so wanted to share some thoughts..I've just had my first BFP on my fourth ICSI attempt. Sadly it ended in miscarriage but that was due to a chromosomal abnormality so the important thing here is I got pregnant. I also have endo and raised NKs. What I'm interested in is how they treated your NKs? I feel that tackling those was what got me pregnant as it was the one thing that was done differently this time. I had blood transfusions, before and after the transfer. I'm not sure if you've tried this so apologies if so but if you want any info please get in touch.xxx


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## Coolish (Jul 10, 2012)

*Missymoo* - hopefully your DP just needs to go off and blow steam. The first think my OH does is run off to blow off steam or stick his head in the sand or find a man cave or whatever blokes do. My OH can't stand crying and drama, se he has to get out. He's probably hurting just as much as you but can't express it in the same way. Hope you get things sorted this weekend xx

*Butterflygirl* - I know other ladies who are over the cut off age but will still see Penny for consultation, hysto and drugs protocol. They have their IVF elsewhere. I would contact Serum and fill out their questionaire and look to have a telephone consultation with Penny to see what she says. Have you had the hidden c test?

*KTHB *- please don't doubt you'll have your miracle. PMA is a great boost to getting a positive outcome. I helped boost mine by listening to Circle+Bloom and Zita West MP3s during my last cycle. I found it very calming. I'm also a big believer in your body responding to what you tell it.


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## Missymoo82 (Jul 17, 2012)

Hi ladies so sorry I went AWOL   Thanks for all your replies & reassurances & for sharing your own stories & struggles. I'm so sorry that so many of us are suffering so much  

Since my post on Friday things have been up in the air! I did another test on sat morn & I got a very very faint positive... I thought it must be a dud test!! So I bought another couple of tests & this morn i got another faint line & pregnant 1-2 weeks on cbd. I'm in shock happy but only tentatively so as I'm still spotting pink on & off & have cramps on & off! I'm not sure whether it's a true bfp. Will keep testing over next couple of days  

Clarke12 I know from reading these boards that secondary infertility is also extremely painful & just as heartbreaking for you. I can totally understand your feelings of wanting a sibling it's completely natural to want this. I felt the same on this cycle that I was just going thru the motions. But we manage to do it somehow. Everything crossed for you xx

KTHB my heart completely goes out to you & can totally relate to your feelings that it will never work   thank you for your concerns for me esp when your also suffering so much. Iv no idea what's happening with my latest fet but however it turns out I now defiantly have a lot more positivity for them whereas before I was skeptical of them working. I hope when you feel ready you will try with your frozen embies   You are incredibly strong & brave & if there's any justice in this world you will be rewarded soon   And yes men are very supporting & useful but at times are complete idiots & haven't got a clue  

Mogster, thank you for your kind words. I don't know your fertility history but I also never used to ovulate or if I did very few or far between. I think this was due to the endo on my ovaries which was lasered in June, since my op I have ovulated every month using the cbfm. I also now take evening primrose oil in the first half of my cycle not sure if it's helped or just coincidence! Anyway you will already know anything & everything to try! I wish you all the luck whether your trying with ivf or naturally. Hubby was completely told off by his mum & then my mum on fri night & consequently apologised. We have both been under enormous stress recently as we've also opened a new business along with doing ivf   not a good combination   

Butterfly girl, so sorry of your very recent bfn & previous cycles   it must add an incredible amount of stress onto it all having to also travel so far   serum sounds like a very good clinic esp for us ladies with previous failures & various issues. As cooljules has said having a telephone consult with penny might be a very good idea now. I wish you all the luck on your next steps xx

Cooljules, yes your right he was also hurting but sometimes I wrongly feel like its so much easier for him so I take it out on him   Were both stressed him more than Iv ever known recently so I'm trying to cut him some more slack  

Thank you again for all your replies & support. I feel ashamed posting my news after my huge post on Friday but hand on heart I really don't think I'm out of the woods   whatever happens now I hope I can keep the strength up to keep going & will keep the end goal in mind xxx 

Bug hugs to you all


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## Butterfly girl (Mar 24, 2013)

Thankyou MissyMoo ( love that name ) and CoolJules,
really good advice.

Feeling so low today that I took the day off. Very difficult job trying to be upbeat and happy
in front of 23,  7 and 8 year olds after a failed IVF cycle.

Without you girls on FF, I would feel even lower.

Bless all your cotton socks.

xxx


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## KTHB (Mar 11, 2013)

Wow, Missymoo,  that is amazing.  I understand your cautiousness but I have everything crossed for you and really hope this works out.  Keep positive and there is definitely nothing to be ashamed of in posting your latest news.  In fact it exactly highlights what a difficult rollercoaster ride this whole game is.  

CoolJules - thanks for your words.  I am currently in a post BFN downer but am always very positive when actually cycling. I was asolutely convinced that the last cycle had worked so when the nurse said it was negative I just looked at her for ages as I couldn't believe what she was saying.  Am sure I'll be feeling more positive again soon.

Butterfly girl - Sorry you are having a low day, hope you can do something that makes you feel better and ready to face the world again.  With it being rainy and miserable, I feel like hibernating for the winter but am determined to get out of the house and do something constructive today  

xx


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## Missymoo82 (Jul 17, 2012)

Butterfly here's a virtual   I hope you have someone there looking after you xxxx

Big hugs to Kthb as well   I wish so much I could take all of our pain away xx


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## KTHB (Mar 11, 2013)

Hi MissyMoo. how are things with you?  I have been thinking of you and hoping that everything has worked out well so far. 

xx


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## Offthewall (Apr 28, 2013)

Just wanted to offer hugs Missymoo & co.  

This TTC journey can be so hard. After yet another failed cycle, I'm also feeling down and frustrated but reading FF and taking inspiration from ladies who have struggled with infertility for years but have finally achieved that elusive BFP keeps me going.

Stay strong girls. It will happen xx


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## Missymoo82 (Jul 17, 2012)

Hi ladies thanks for your posts & concern. Unfortunately & typical of me it’s not a good outcome. Maybe I should have been more careful what I wished for in my original post…. I’m currently waiting to miscarry. I’m officially 5wks & 3 days pregnant but unfortunately it looks like my little embryo / s have stopped growing & my hcg has plummeted. I spent all last week happy but terrified as I was spotting all week & ironically on Saturday the spotting stopped & I think so did the pregnancy. 

I’m beyond words now at how much I’ve been thru esp over the last 12 months. I’ve literally tried everything to make this work but it appears the harder I try the worse the outcome. I wish I could go back to my little bubble last week of actually starting to believe everything could be ok. Is this the longest I’m going to get to be a mother ?? 1 lousy week  

My family has had such a rough 2 years & I really wanted this to be the news to pull us all out of it. My mum is currently sat in the hospital saying goodbye to her dad (my granddad) who is dying. Think he must be taking my little embryo with him to heaven. I was hoping he was hanging onto life this last week to make sure my pregnancy progressed but it must have been out of his control.  

I don’t even know what’s next as I can’t see past this week. How many times can you survive grief??!! Do we risk another cycle & spend another 8k or just finally accept it isn’t meant to be for us & maybe move onto adoption. How do you stop the longing to carry your own baby tho?! That is the root cause of my misery I just want to carry our baby & give birth. I need to get over it somehow I think.

Sorry to everyone suffering on here alongside me xx


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## Mogster (Nov 1, 2012)

Sending you     Missymoo. 

Also sending     to everyone else struggling at the moment. I know how you all feel. Life can be so unfair at times.


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## Leftleg (Oct 30, 2011)

I'm so sorry MissyMoo, sometimes there are no words. I know how truly awful you are feeling right now and there's not much I can say to ease your pain apart from that one day you will wake up and the dark cloud will have lifted a little. Not much comfort I know but if you want to PM me please do, I am thinking of you and please be kind to yourself and take all the time you need. Sending such big big   to you xxx


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## Shoegirl10 (Dec 24, 2011)

I am sorry MissyMoo- sometimes I feel the same - When is enough enough?- other times I feel determined not to give up until I really have to. What ever you decide will be the right choice for you. Please don't rush into any decisions as at the moment everything feels "blurred" wait a bit and then decide.


Stay strong xxx


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## KTHB (Mar 11, 2013)

So sorry to read this MissyMoo  

I can honestly say that I have never been through anything as heartbreaking and traumatic in my life as my miscarriages. I remember feeling like I would never be happy again BUT it does get better.  I found I had to deal with the physical side first before I could even begin to feel better emotionally.  So take all the time you need, don't worry about making any decisions about the future, that can wait for now and have faith that somehow you will get through this.

xx


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## Missymoo82 (Jul 17, 2012)

Hi ladies, thanks so much for all your posts. I’m glad I can at least come on here & share what’s happening with ppl who completely understand. For some strange reason my body still isn’t recognising that it needs to miscarry so the physical side hasn’t started yet. I feel like I can’t ‘move on’ until this happens & almost just want it to hurry up & get on with it!  

I can’t believe the amount of grief & pain ladies on here go through. I keep looking around me at work & thinking do other ppl go through anything like this?! Do they have any idea the amount of suffering we go through!!! I feel like I must be cursed… I’ve always gone through life having to fight for everything. Why couldn’t I have been one of the ‘lucky’ ones who got pregnant on clomid or on their first IVF?! My husband summed it up he said we keep getting that little bit closer but were still not close enough…. But why?! Why am I one of the unlucky ones that has to keep going through this & not just be a lucky person who has a fairy-tale ending who can turn around & say IVF is the best thing I ever did!!! 

Sorry for the feeling sorry for myself post I’m in that grief cycle again of upset, anger, frustration, disappointment etc etc!  

If anyone has a crystal ball can they throw it over to me. I could do with knowing that the future holds before I go & gamble another 5-10k!  

If anyone doesn’t mind could they tell me how they keep funding IVF? We already have debt which were comfortably paying off the majority will be paid by the middle of 2015 so the only thing we can do is take more debt on. I can’t ask family for money as my mum & dad especially have already helped us out on the last cycle. 

I always said at the start of the IVF my biggest fear was doing repeat IVF’s, being unhappy & having loads of debt…. And here I am!!! But on the other hand if we don’t keep trying what else will we do? My practical side is telling me to wait until some of our debt is cleared but what do we do until then?! These questions keep going round & round…!   xx


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