# In a real quandry about what to do-any advice welcome, but it's a long story...



## Maggie68 (Jan 5, 2009)

First of all I'm not quite sure if I am on the correct thread. However our fertility issues are so varied that any number of them would probably be appropriate, so here goes. 

I am 40 and DH is 46. 

We have one DS who has just had his third birthday. DS was conceived through IVF (2nd go) with donor sperm, but using my eggs - despite the fact that at the time of conception my FSH was high and we were advised to go straight to donor embryos as we were told the chance of a child was around 5% (haven't seen much on here about embryo donation, unless someone can point me in the right direction). Anyway, being stubborn, I persisted with IVF and by a great deal of luck and good fortune DS was born. 

Anyway, mindful of my age, the problems that we had encountered the first time round with FSH etc, the shortage of donor sperm (unfortunately we were unable to use the same donor as for DH) due to the change in legislation that had occurred in the meantime, about a year and a half ago we decided to try again - with a different donor and my eggs. 

Basically since then we have had three goes of IVF, each time a fresh cycle using the maximum dose of stimming drugs (you can imagine the cost!) with no success. The last time a few months ago. 

It has therefore been suggested that we use donor eggs/embryos - which basically means that neither of us will be genetically linked to any child, even though DS is has a genetic link to me.

Ultimately I am desperate to have another child, and I am going through many of the thoughts and feelings that I had when I didn't have DS - lots of pregnant people at work, in our road and even on the television (women several years older than me!) and I wish it could be me again. As much as I love DS, I still have a deep yearning for another child. I only have one life and feel that I need to do all that I can to make it happen. 

However I am finding it difficult to come to terms with the fact that to have a second child using donor eggs or embryos, would mean that 4 individuals will have created our family. We have not told anyone about DS (that, I appreciate is a different issue with a section all of its own) - we do not come from particularly tolerant, understanding or close knit families and in our view (though it is of course a personal one) they therefore have no need or right to know.

I therefore feel that I need to have another go with my eggs and was contemplating DIUI, as presumably there is at least a chance, but at a significantly reduced cost than for IVF. Can DIUI work in a 40 year old? Am I being silly? I'm not aware of any tubal issues though it was  a while ago that they were checked. 

The whole situation is also placing a great deal of strain on my relationship with DH. DH is of the view that we should take the route that will have the best chance of having another child, and that won't be a waste of our money - in his view donor eggs/embryos. We also now have the 'credit crunch' to contend with, so finances are even more precious. However I find it hard to put finance before emotion. 

I can see his point but he has already faced up to the fact that he will not be the biological father of a child so he is ahead of me by 4 years. He is far more practical than me too - probably a male thing. I also feel the whole situation will be very complicated for the children involved. DH is not concerned about this - we shall be their parents, who love them and that is the main thing in his view. The biological issue does not seem to bother him at all. I know how much he loves DS and that is what he says to me about how I would love a child that was not biologically mine. Perhaps I am underestimating my ability to deal with it - we have had to go through alot so far, after all - far more than anyone we know realises. 

We had a big argument today but when I got home he suggested we go for another consultation to go through it all again. I think he is hoping that they say that I would be ridiculous to try again with my own eggs, and he can then say I told you so - or at least quote their advice at me. However maybe I have been lucky - he has after all indulged me in 3 attempts at IVF when the chances were low anyway. I can't however help the way I feel. 

There is also the issue of having to wait for a donor - I feel that I could at least be doing something in the meantime if I tried again. Otherwise I shall be paying for someone else's treatment when I could be funding my own.  

Basically I feel very confused. 

Any advice welcome.


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## lily17 (Sep 25, 2008)

Oooh difficult situation.....

I think you have to look at 3 things
1. desire to have a child
2. finances
3.your own fertility ..or loss of it

1. is easy- you want another child, and so does your partner- so dont get caught up in arguments about that issue.

2. finances- the subject of death!!!!!-- everyone is always a slave to money....if money where no object I think many many women would continue to go for IVF with your own eggs indefinately...we all want a biological link.....but I for one have had to give up on that and go for donor eggs because of the increased chances....we just can afford to waste any more money 

3. fertility....facing the fact that you cant have any more kids of your own----if at all in some cases is a tough cookie....I greived for the loss of my fertility, it took me a few weeks to come to terms with it...its the loss that gets you....... but you do have to be practical..... and at the end of the day...a little baby that your body has produced is as much yours as the previous one was....there is alot of evidence to say that donor babies imprint on the biological mother in many ways....and the biological mother influences the babys outcome in many many ways....they just dont carry the genes that you do.....but you're the mum and they'll love you unconditionally..... you have to get you head around it...its not easy at first....but you will!

Im not sure if Ive helped just ranted a bit!!!-sorry!
I m sure you will work it out inyour own mind......
Karen xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Have you taken DHEA? I say this because you may not have looked into this. Have a search on the threads for it if not - it really does work for egg quality in many cases.

There's sooo much stuff on the threads about it - you're best looking through rather than me giving you a run-down.

If you've not tried it I'd say give it one more go after four months of DHEA. You're not ready to give up on your eggs and there's lots you can do to improve quality and aid implantation.

Good luck!

xx


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## nbr1968 (Feb 25, 2008)

Hi Maggie68

i read on another thread about Epigeneticsand i thought ths may help you - can' tfind the link to the study but this is a synopsis

Epigenetics:- Genes must be ‘expressed’ within an individual in order to have an effect. 

The same gene or genes can express in a number of different ways depending upon the environment. A gene can remain ’silent’ or unexpressed; it can be expressed strongly; it can be expressed weakly, and so on. There is also an entire field of study called imprinting having to do with which gene you ‘activate,’ the copy you received from your mother, or the copy you received from your father.

The field of epigenetics studies these phenomenon, and popular journalism is just starting to write about it. While the Human Genome Project was still underway, we usually heard genes referred to as ‘the Bible’ of the human being, as a kind of absolute truth concerning the fundamental nature of the individual.

That is now changing.

In a donor egg pregnancy, the pregnant woman’s womb is the environment. It is her genes, not the donor’s, that determine the expression of the
donor-egg baby’s genes. 

A donor egg baby gets her genes from the donor; she gets the ‘instructions’ on the expression of those genes from the woman who carries her to term.

This means that a donor egg baby has 3 biological parents: a father, the egg donor, and the woman who carries the pregnancy.

The child who is born would have been a physically & no doubt emotionally different person if carried by his genetic mother.

In horse breeding for example, it’s not uncommon to implant a pony embryo into the womb of a horse.

The foals that result, are different from normal ponies. They’re bigger. These animals’ genotype – their genes – are the same as a pony’s, but their phenotype – what their genes actually look like in the living animal – is different.


I hope this gives you some food for thought and may help you to make your decision - good luck with your journey

Nbr68


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

Maggie.ther were quite a few things that resonated  with me in ur post.even though i havent had a live birth with my oe.u will c that i hav a long history of ttc inc 3 ivf last year.we r now on wl 4 de  with my dh sperm.dont know if it mor difficult as u hav ur natural son already.but im sure from what u say that ur dh is a natural father even though he not his genetic father.finance has 2b considered.i just long for a child.my dh was keen 2 go 4 de 2 gos bk so i understand how u feel 2 want another go.but the chance is so much more with de and my dh wants me 2 hav the best chnce and yes not waste any mor money.also ther r mental health history in my family and i suppose i believe in nuture over nature.we cant always hav what we want in life and hav 2 take another but not necessarily lesser option.u say u dh is 4 years ahead of u but hav u thought of what it felt like 4 him 2 hav a di son.he mus hav feelins bout it both positive and negative.also re siblings mayb ur son has sum already.sorry if i hav been blunt or mayb not much help.good luck berniex


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## annacameron (Dec 16, 2008)

maggie what is your AMH? have you had it tested? lister does a test at 59 pounds that is quite informative i think from reading many mnay people's numbers and reactions to ivf.  short msg as running out but that would be a good starting point from here.


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## Luisa01 (Sep 13, 2008)

Hi Maggie,
I would echo what other respondents have said about AMH and DHEA.  FSH can fluctuate wildly from one month to the next, whereas AMH gives you the "base line reading" on your fertility.  It's a much more accurate and consistent measure of ovarian reserve. It seems to me that if you get your AMH tested, you'll get a better idea of whether it is worth proceeding with your own eggs.  I too tested high on FSH well over a year before I conceived, but my AMH result, though not great, was more encouraging.

As for DHEA, I really would look at the research and see if its for you.  It is pretty impressive as far as I'm concerned.  I did choose to take a DHEA supplement myself on the run up to my IVF cycle and managed to get pregnant (19 weeks now and no problems).  Whether or not it was because of the DHEA, I do not know.  In any event, I wish you the very best of luck.

Luisa


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥ (Apr 10, 2008)

Hi Maggie 

Sorry to butt in, i'm not 40 yet!!   but we are going through the same sort of thing. We haven't had children yet but we are using donor sperm and our last cycle with ivf not icsi resulted in none fertilisation. The con said it may be my eggs as they had no binding code. He said to try 1 more time with them. but we have limited funds, so do we try with cautiuon but waste 7k or try with a higher success rate with DE?? 

I'm the same with sort of coming to terms with DE where as we are fine with DS, but are we ok with a full Donor baby? I am desperate for a child so does this matter? 

Money is an issue and if we had pots of it i would try with my eggs, but i feel i can't take that risk as it would be our last go if it fails, but we could go abroad for DE which would be cheaper. Oh i don't know!!!

I haven't actually helped you, have I, sorry!!!


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## Empty2 (Aug 12, 2006)

Maggie,

So sorry to hear of your plight  
As you can see from our history at the bottom of my posting that we have been through it a bit too but we also had an amazing outcome.  

I have alway suffered with my thyroid but it has supposedly stabilized in the last 10-12 years so came off thyroxine.  Last year I requested all the thyroid checks be done rather than the one blood test by my doctor usually has done and found one of the levels was down, I was then put back onto thyroxine.  After 12 years of 'trying' I finally gave birth in December.  We are broke but happy!!!!!   

There is a thread on here somewhere that explains about the thyroid and the tests you should have done, don't wait for Doctors to advise you, I had been under a 'thyroid' Specialist who didn't even pick this up!!!!!! 

Good luck

emps
x


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

what did you decide to do Maggie?  Many of the single girls have done cycles with embryo donation at Reprofit and it is a fraction of the UK cost.

L X


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥ (Apr 10, 2008)

we are going to reprofit. we only decided this week!! and only cos of the cost is so much lower. We are going to use our eggs, and if it doesn't work then we can use donor or embryo adoption. EA is only 1k plus drugs. 

Empty - i am in awe of you!!    what an amazing story. you totally deserve those 4 babas!!


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