# adoption and playgroup/nursery and school-chat thread



## ♥ M J ♥

Hi Ladies and Gents

I thought i would start this thread for us to share info/experiances of dealing with our little ones starting playgroup/nursery and school.

We face issues of privacy such as school events, photos ect and how to handle it.

Our children face alot of things when starting/going to the above.

hope this thread helps for us all to bounce ideas off each other as well as the "been there done it" help we all need at times

Thanks

Mez
xxxx


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## ♥ M J ♥

Hey ladies and Gents

I am totally selfish in starting this thread as since DD started pre-school nursery we have faced a few hurdles that non adopted children would have!

*having to show orig birth cert and explain that DD was a LAC
*Asking the nursery to use our surname for DD peg at school however we couldnt legally force them too (LAC are not ment to be known as any other surname before adoption order!)
*Explaining that legally only me, DH and inlaws could pick DD up as per our agreement with our LA(this is only before adoption order is granted)
*explaining that DD cant be in any pics that go into public view (they do a monthly news letter for our area which the school do a page inc pics)

Only the teachers involved with DD know she is adopted however i havent told any other parents as i didnt know them before DD started the school and dont want her to be know as the "adopted girl" 

Our DS is due to start pre-school nursery in 6months which is gonna be crazy as DD moves full time as DS starts part time!

hugs

Mez
xxx


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## magenta

thanks for this.  I will add some bits to this later and hopefully we can collectively help others with this.  

Magenta x


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## saphy75

we haven't needed to tell our ds play group that he is adopted, i don't have a problem telling them it just hasn't come up   but no doubt it will come up at some point though if not now when he starts school

pam xx


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## Old Timer

Though I was told I didn't need to tell anyone I decided to tell the owner of DS's current nursery.  The forms I filled in asked for who could pick him up and they need to know the password I've allocated and also asked about photos, I decided that they could only be taken for his progress book and not displayed anywhere but now I know the nursery and the adoption order is through I am thinking of letting them do a small display on him in the nursery as long as they don't mention our surname, where we live etc.  The nursery he goes to isn't close to home and neither is the playgroup.  We didn't have to show birth cert, I just filled out the forms using our surname.

We aren't telling people either as we don't want DS to be labelled as 'adopted', he has no behaviour or attachment issues that make him any different from any other child and we have photos he can use when doing about being a baby and all the facts he will need about his birth, weight etc so we are lucky in that respect.

OT x


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## magenta

*Who to tell*

For us we needed to tell last nursery because when we applied for her place she wasn't legally adopted and there was a 'tick box' to show if the child had an allocated sw and your were asked to say why - so it was on all her paperwork.

We told the latest nursery because we were moving DD there due to behaviour problems relating to her difficulties in 'settling' at the previous nursery. We needed to be clear about what support she needed and why and explain clearly to staff what signs to look out for that might indicate that dd is anxious /needs help as she does a very convincing 'all is well' face when things aren't ok at all.

*our story*

If it helps anyone else - DD was placed with us at 19months. She has global delay - not severe - but no attachment disorder. We didn't expect to face any problems when she started nursery (preschool).

She started at the local 'good' state nursery in Sept. She was in morning sessions 2.5 hours each day in class B (a large upstairs room with 30 children and 3 teachers).

However, a big group environment, with everything out at once (lots of distractions), no friends and no apparent support to make friends, with few adults around (and no named adult she could go to for help/assistance) meant that she was completely out of her depth and was acutely aware of her 'difference' to the other children (what also didn't help was that she was put in with 4+ year olds at age 3.5 (about age 3 developmentally)). She failed to settle and was a danger to herself and other children because she wasn't able to get the right support from the teachers. Also it took her an hour to 'settle into the environment' by which time the nursery expected her to be ready change and go out for playtime (change) and then back in (another change) and then get ready for home(another change).

She became upset and disordered in the classroom; would throw water/sand to get attention from a teacher; was unsafe in her play and demanded attention in order to the adult input she needed. She went back to wetting herself rather than find a teacher she didn't trust to ask to go downstairs to toilet (stairs are still tricky for DD). At nursery she was disruptive but put on her 'happy face' and was apparently a 'lovely girl' but at home things went downhill rapidly. In fact things got so bad that she was crying at night, tantrumming, testing all boundaries again like a baby...constantly doing naughty things like play with the phone just to check. Our little girl was SO sad and constantly needed support/help at home and began to lose all regulation. She became incontinent (lost the ability to do it completely).

Nursery had meetings with OH within a week of her starting and we were called to see head after 4 weeks. They said we needed to move her to afternoons - it was the only option in order to be able to support her needs. We asked if they could support her better in the mornings and were told NO. We asked if at the very least she could go in the downstairs class to help with toileting - but no. no other options were offered. not even SEN. We said no to afternoons for many reasons - one being that DD needs a nap or quiet time in pm to settle and process her thoughts for the day and the session was 1.30 - 3 (slap bang in the middle of naptime/quiet time). she needs this - we know this and therefore it was non-negotiable.

At October break we found a small private nursery with a preschool class who understood about attachment and DDs need to know who to turn to for help/reassurance. She is in a far smaller classroom with a 1:5 ratio and often gets 1:1 help where staffing allows. Things have been like night and day ever since. They have a rule of only getting activities out when they are going to do them - so less distraction/option and DD is able to concentrate more easily. The sessions also last 5 hours - long enough for her to be settled and learn. Teachers are aware of her past so are sensitive in covering curriculum around family etc. She goes 3 mornings a week but we will increase this to 4 and then 5 next year.

We are now fighting to get assistance in place for when she needs to move to a big class environment again (when she starts school in 2010). But how do you explain how awful things were when all they see is a lovely wee girl settled nicely in her new nursery showing no challenging behaviour?

*Anyway - my points are as follows:*

1. The best school or nursery in your area might not be 'best' for your child(ren).

2. Ask at the outset if there will be a keyworker and explain to them that your child might need some extra interaction in order to get to know and trust them.

3. Don't agree to what is easiest for school nursery if it isn't in the best interest of your child.

4. Be willing to move them if you think things won't change.

5. Keep a note/record of any behaviour changes and ask nursery to do likewise to identify 'triggers' and 'anxiety points' in the day.

6. Check in advance if a certain session will be mainly older or younger children.

7. Be willing to ask for help (SEN or otherwise) if you think it might help your child in the short or long term. Asking for help won't label your child - it just flags up that they 'might' need help in this new environment.

8. You won't be the first parent to have unexpected problems with the move to nursery or preschool or school...and you wont be the last. There is no need to feel ashamed and alone (like I did before I contacted AdoptionUk and was told it was fairly common)

*Re photos etc*

At nursery, toddler groups etc we said 'yes' to group photos with no names attached. BF havent seen DD since she was 6months old (not even photos since) so it unlikely to be an issue but I would rather be safe than sorry. Same with her name - we have asked that nothing with name and/or DoB is given out except with our permission (eg for assessments) just in case. However we have said that they can celebrate her birthday on the right day - just not put it on the notice board as they would with other children or put it in the monthly newsletter.

Anyway...very long and rambling but i hope it helps someone in the future.

Magenta x


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## ♥ M J ♥

Magenta

Only a quick reply and need to get my 2 ready for nursery however thank you for your post- makes me feel "normal" about things

xxxx


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## cindyp

Just a quick post, I don't think the kids are going to play together nicely for much longer 

MJ, I remember going through what you have as both DS and DD went to a nursery 2 mornings a week before the adoption order. Both DD's playgroup and DS's school know they are adopted.  Living in a small village it is not always easy to keep these things hidden.  We have said yes to group photos with no names attached as we want them to feel included.  I have no fears regarding DD but DS's BM lives only 25 miles away so we are careful what we will allow him to appear in.

We have had no problems with DD and she absolutely loves her playgroup.  We have had to turn to DS's teacher for assistance because school has had a big impact on his behaviour, which we expected given his attachment issues.  Although he displays no outward problems at school it has caused a setback in his sleeping/behaviour at home since September.  Fortunately his teacher is very good, she picked up on some non verbal cues that showed that he was not as confident as he appeared.  We have had a couple of meetings to discuss how she can help and I am confident that she will try to provide the support we need.  This week I have been into school to take photos to make a visual diary so that DS knows what is happening each day in order to help him feel less anxious.

I think Magenta has listed some very good points and I can't add to what she has written.  Starting at playgroup/school is a big step for any child and I think that for our children it can sometimes be harder.  It was a good idea to start this thread because there will be many adoptive Mum's who will go through these anxious times.

love
Cindy


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## shivster

I am just in the process of organising nursery for little bear. Just two mornings a week. I think he needs the time with other kids and adults away from me. 

I am sad   but feel that he needs more stimuli. He is a very intelligent, articulate 2.7yr old who needs more social interaction. I am scared he will be devestated and it will damage our firm bond.  

What do you more experienced mums think?? The Mums around me with toddlers (none are adopted) are of the impression that children 2+ need nursery and I have held out for this long because I didn't want them to dictate what I chose for LB.

Am going to have a chat with my dearest friend, also an adoptive mum (but hers are now teenagers with all the joys and sorrows that that entails!!!!!) and see what she thinks.

Shivster xx


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## Old Timer

Hi Shivster

Personnally I think children do need the social interaction and independance from Mummy that going to nursery/playgroup gives them especially if they are very bright.  My DS started with just 1 session a week at 2 1/2yrs and since Jan we have added another session, slowly buiding it up to his funded hours after Easter and me returning to work part-time in June.

From seeing him gain confidence and enjoying being with other children I knew he would be fine, in fact I knew he would LOVE it and have a great time, but I still found it hard leaving him and will admit to crying the first couple of times! (after I'd dropped him off)  He knew I was going back to collect him, I'd talked a lot to him about it and left him with my Dad a couple of times for about an hour just so he got used to me going and coming back for him.

Its not many hours but I get to do jobs that aren't so easy to do with him around, was doing them at weekends while DH got to play but felt I was missing out on seeing them interact together and some valuable family time.  Also, when DS is testing and being a bit of a b it gives us both a break and sometimes I just have a bit of 'me' time doing my photos or catching up on a tv programme (normally while ironing though).

I really don't think it will damage your bond, it could even strengthen it.  My DS comes running up to me shouting 'Mummeeeeeee' and gives me the biggest cuddle and kiss everytime I collect him and then we spend time talking about what he has done.  We also have a wall full of his art work and even though I love crafts and we do painting, sticking etc it is really nice to see things he has done without me.

I can't wait for Mother's Day and the card he will make at nursery, it will mean more than any shop bought card.

Love
OT x


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## shivster

Thanks for the reply OT. It makes me feel better. I do think it will be beneficial for him and very likely for me too  

The preschool offers a minimum of 2 sessions a week so that will be the start. There are children who go there whom DS already knows. I will also be given a lift to and from preschool by another mum I know. Which I think will help him and me!

Thanks for your reply. xx


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## ritzi

hello all

did any of you have to wait for the LEA to decide if your chosen school is suitable?  

dizzy was in a state nursery before he came to us, and he has a statement of educational needs.

we chose the nursery for him, they are fine with his statement (except if he poos   then i have to go change him) and said once they advertise a post and find him a 1-1 worker he can start   seems reasonable

then his SW phoned and said we have let the LEA know so they can decide   turns out as he is a LAC with a statement some panel who have never met him will read his (out of date now) statement and decide if our chosen school is okay and inform the school of that. they will have to provide the funding for the 1-1 worker so i see they should have some say but it seems the decision rests on them  

they should meet today but snow pretty bad so gawd knows how long it will take - there is only 1.5 terms left of nursery then they'll have to do it all again for primary school. all the while my big boy keeps asking 'when dizzy go to school?' 

          

ritz


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## dawny36

Hi ritzi,

Its sounds frustrating for you as you only want the best for your two boys but while they are LAC adoptive parents dont have a lot of say in decisions like that and yet once they become legally yours you never see anyone again ! It amused me when our little was LAC the health visitor rang and said I need to do a visit to how things are because she is a LAC, she is now 2years and 3months legally ours and we are chasing the health visitor for the 2 year check, when I rang and asked about they said 'oh we dont routinely do them anymore you have to request one'  fortunately i have no concerns as I know she is exceeding her milestones but what about those poor mums who darent ask for one or dont even realise the 2 year check exists?

Anyway I have gone off on a tangent but I hope the 'panel' agree with your choice of nursery for your son and it gets sorted out very soon...

Take care

Dawny
x


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## shivster

Hello all,

Just wanted to let you know that our DS went to nursery this morning and... LOVED IT!

He was so happy to stay and I was pleased he was happy but had a cry on the way home! Felt a bit lost though! 

Anyway I think we have made the right decision.  

Thanks to all who helped me come to a decision about it. xx


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## Suzie

Thats great to hear he had a lovely time 

x


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## Old Timer

Thats great to hear!  Honestly you will get used to having some time to yourself again and don't spend it all doing housework!!
OT x


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## Viva

Hi everyone, 
Thought that this was probably as good a place as any to post for a bit of advice. Charlie's teacher spoke to me today as after making good progress last term this terms he's not really been working but just being distracted and silly all the time. His teacher wanted to know if there had been any big changes at home, which with the exception of the baby on the way (which he's known about for ages and isn't that imminent yet, we're consciously trying to involve them but at the same time keep things really low key and maintain everything as normal as possible) we too have seen a lot of silly behaviour and have been largely ignoring it and hoping that it will go away, except for when he is silly at meal times.

DH and I have both had a chat with him and so far this is what we have come up with in terms of encouraging the behaviour we want.  We thought we'd chat with his teacher and ask for a quick briefing at the end of each day so that we can reward good behaviour with a sticker, one for not being silly, one for working well, also if he's had a very distracted day to perhaps ask that if there's uncompleted work (E.G a worksheet barely started) that we take that home and he does it at home. We also felt that as Charlie seems unable to work out when it is ok to be silly (E.G. at playtime) and when he should be sensible (E.G. during classtime) that we need to 'crack down' on all silly behaviour, explaining that he is being silly and giving him 5 minutes on the thinking step. 

Would really appreciate thoughts on this one as part of me does think that little boys should be able to be a bit silly sometimes but we are hearing increasingly about Charlie being silly and not listening and the impact that this is having (swimming lessons, at Sunday school) and I am aware that silly boys can soon become annoying to people around them and potentially unpopular. Not sure my first choice of a play date for Charlie or Lola would be a little one who seemed to be silly all the time.

Thanks in advance for your wisdom...
Viva
X


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## Old Timer

Hi Viva

Sorry you are having this 'silly' problem with Charlie.  I may be totally off the mark here and will apologise in advance just in case   Is there a chance he is being so silly at school because he is either bored by what they are doing or the opposite and not understanding it enough to feel comfortable?  I know my nephew went through a real tricky patch at school because he is a lot brighter than his age and was finding it all very boring and so messed about, he has now settled down and is working hard but they have also given him more work than his class mates to keep him busy.  He is 9 and has a reading age of 15yrs, really bright but very lazy and doesn't like writing anything down.

Sounds as though you have got some good ideas to try out with the stickers and taking work home to catch up.  Can't offer any advice though I'm afraid 

Good luck
OT x


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## Suzie

OT I was going to suggest the same  my nephew was deemed "silly" when he started school and was actually assessed for his behaviour and it was found that he is very bright and has already skipped one year at school! He was actually bored 

K is going through a silly week this week also  I know totally what it is like Viva   
K goes all what I call chaotic, where we flits from one thing to another and doesnt listen to a word I am saying! It seems to be when something has either triggered a memory from his past or he is unhappy/unsettle by something. I have a new nephew so I am wondering if this is why he is like it at the moment. 
It usually takes K a week or so to settle again. 

Maybe he needs a little more time out on his own in the classroom or something at the moment? until he/you can figure things out? K seems to be worse in nursery group when he is like it  

big 
xx


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## cindyp

Viva, you can have some  .  Suzie calls it chaotic, I believe the technical term is hyper aroused, we call it our DS "little bu**er mode" (not to his face of course).  Because for example from this morning, when he runs into the garden with no shoes on laughing after having thrown his sisters dolly out the door and refuses to do what either of us say he is being an irritating little bu**ger.  However we try not to shout at him or get annoyed because we know that this is just a physical manifestation of all his internal anxieties which at the moment are mainly about school.

Just a thought, I know the birth is not imminent and you have been doing your best to make the children feel comfortable about it but it is a big change coming up and after the big change of starting school it could be playing on his mind.  Our DS doesn't tend to display the behaviour at school but saves it till he gets home.  Our phsychologist described it as a fizzy bottle going Pop. 

All I can suggest is the advice given to us, look beyond the physical age and treat him like a toddler.  You know when you distract a toddler from a tantrum or pick them up for a cuddle and say "I think you're tired".  Try and find out what might be bothering him (easier said than done as I know from experience).  If you can get to the root of the behaviour then maybe you can work with the teacher to come up with a solution.

Sorry it's all a bit vague, please feel free to PM.

take care
Cindy


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## Viva

Thanks for all your thoughts. Suzie and Cindy I certainly recognise the behaviour that you describe we tend to use 'time in' with us when Charlie behaves like this and his teacher has said that they are also doing the same thing by asking him to come and sit beside them.

OT, I think that there is an element of being bored with some things (and also a little lazy) he doesn't enjoy writing (or doing his spellings at home) but if he tries he grasps things very quickly. He loves the science type subjects and has a really inquisitive mind, also thankfully his reading is no problem and I think he is reading really well. His teacher tells us (as everyone always has) that he's a very bright little boy and they want to help him reach his potential as we do!  

It's constantly at the back of my mind that this could be 'baby' related and we are trying hard to have lots of quality time with Charlie and reassure him as much as possible (had lovely cuddle in bed this morning with him, stroking his back and tummy and giving him lots of kisses and just telling him how wonderful he is). Normally his behaviour also exhibits at home rather than school but can't rule out things like that changing too.

So far the stickers seem to be helping things have been better the last couple of days, trying generally to find lots of things we can give him praise for, so do feel as if a little progress is being made.

Thanks again for your thoughts, will keep you all posted!
Love Viva
XXX


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