# 'Light' drinking ok in pregnancy?



## helenO (Sep 22, 2006)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7699579.stm

Yet more conflicting advice on drinking alcohol! After the first trimester, I have had a small glass of wine occasionally at home - literally about an inch or two of lovely dry white wine. I really can't see that such a small amount is going to cause any harm, and my mum and sister both drank moderately throughout pregnancy... but I wouldn't want to have my small glass of wine in public, or even in front of friends at home, I'd worry what they would think of me!

What do other ladies think? Is it ok, or would you rather not risk it?


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## Junnie (May 17, 2008)

i was JUST about to post this... here is my question:

How do they know this... even if they did a study group maybe these kids were just destined to be smart... and maybe the drinkin parents actually read to their babies... 

Personally I have not dranken since 8weeks before treatment im not a drinker by nature.... I really dont see if i just put all this time and effort and knicker checking etc why i would take any risks... 

Alchol has had BAD effects on babies.. there are a lot of studies that can PROVE this without a doubt.. this study i would really like to ask the above question. this is just MY opinion my SIL is pregnant same stage as me we are 3 days apart and she horse rides and Drinks ( 1-2 glasses a night etc) and is 37 years old so her risks are even higher than me if she didnt do any of those things... DO i think shes crazy Yup! I cant help but look down on her at times. Again i just have a strong opinion.

My mom smoked (I was an 80s child) and they didnt know what they do now about smoking. I blame my mom for a lot of my medical problems...and the doctors cant rule it out that it didnt effect me. 

Im not trying to preach or anything or make you feel bad if you do drink. Just for me I cant bring myself to do it.


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## Mrs Nikki (Nov 13, 2004)

I am not touching a drop, my parents bought a bottle of champagne up last night to celebrate and I love champagne but wouldn't even have 1 celebration sip, its just for me personally I have always said I would never drink during pregnancy.


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## Bekie (Aug 23, 2004)

Hmmm i cant say it would make me go out and drink more than i have.. which so far is one sip of red wine but thats because i really dont fancy alcohol right now but i wouldn't feel guilty having the odd glass now and again, if i felt like it.  I know at Xmas i'll probably have a very small glass with Dinner and again at New year but it'd be such a small amount i cant see that it can do any harm.

I'd never condone the binge drinking that seems to be popular whilst pregnant at the minute that just seems mad to me and dangerous to boot, but i doubt he odd glass now and again would hurt.

I think i'm lucky in that i dont miss it, and will stil go out dancing and just have J20's


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## sallywags (Jun 27, 2005)

I have the odd v small drink now and again (less than the '1-2 units once or twice a week) now that i don't feel sick any more!!  - my consultant was adamant that it wouldn't do any harm during treatment or pregnancy - his view was that if you were going to have one, make it a good quality one!!

The rules for 'no alcohol during pg' were brought in as many people couldn't draw the line and understand what 'small amounts of alcohol' actually meant and were still overdoing it.

i know that it does take quite a lot of alcohol to cause foetal alcohol syndrome (although i'm not planning to test the theory!), and some people just ignore it and don't believe that they are going to cause any problems.

it is completely personal, and i don't blame anyone at all for not drinking at all - it can't do any harm to cut it right out, but I am sure that the odd small glass of wine/spritzer is not going to cause my baby any harm. (in fact before i found out that I was actually pregnant after all with M, and that it was a false BFN, i drank myself into a bucket, commiserating the failure of yet another icsi, and was plastered for pretty much the whole fortnight until i discovered that she had hung on in there! she's ok!)


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## tams (Jun 18, 2006)

Hi
Once or twice a week, I have about an inch of white wine topped up with fizzy water (i.e. much less than a unit of wine, once or twice a week). I'm completely confident that having levels at that amount won't do any damage, and it's certainly a nice treat once in a while.
I certainly wouldn't drink any more than that - I believe that previous research has shown that while they know that drinking more than about 20 units a week harms the baby, they just aren't sure about where the line stops between "safe" and "unsafe". In other words, small amounts of alcohol aren't bad for you or the baby, but how small is small?
This latest study does confirm to me though that what I've been doing is ok. As for why the babies whose mum's drank lightly doing better in the tests... I understand that is because in general those mothers "tend to be more socially advantaged than abstainers, rather than being due to the physical benefits of low level alcohol consumption seen, for example, in heart disease". So in other words it depends on what you're like rather than what you're doing (in my opinion a bit like the studies which say that breast-fed babies tend to have higher IQ's, it's not what the babies have eaten but who they tend to be born to).
This sort of research is only dangerous to people who see it as a chance to justify excessive drinking while pregnant.
Tams x


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## Lully77 (Apr 11, 2008)

Ooh it's a tricky one.  I haven't really drunk anything since we got our BFP.  I did have a half glass of champagne to celebrate and then did have a few sips of wine at my sister's 21st but since then maybe just a sip from DH's glass on a couple of occasions.

We are off to a party tomorrow night and I did think that if there were some 'bubbles' on offer I may need a half a glass!  Am not sure whether people would judge me for doing this?  However, isn't it more important to abstain in the first 3 months when your baby is forming??

I guess what I'm saying is that this article won't make me start drinking but if I did want a few sips here or there, I wouldn't beat myself up about it!

Each to their own!

Lully x


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## Junnie (May 17, 2008)

Yeah i guess i just have different views....

I read EVERYDAY on this board people asking about : Brie Cheese, pepperoni, foods to avoid etc. and in reality these foods probably wont harm you.. but  a lot of preggo woman avoid them

but they still have 1-2 units of alchol? Did you know the UK is the only place ive ever seen on alchol bottles to that its ok for preggo woman to have 1-2 units? In canada it says NO drinking whilst pregnant. and your told NO drinking. 

I just think for the sake of "a sip" or "a small glass" I can find tastier....cheaper....alternatives. 

Maybe I am naieve but... to those that are drinking... Can i ask why? I mean for the amounts you are drinking that to me is like eating 1/4 of a meal or a bite of an apple.. What does having a sip REALLY do for you?


I guess i also look at it some people get drunk off a GLASS of wine... now our babies are a lot smaller then an avg humane how much does it take to effect the baby?

Heck a lot of epople wont even take paracetomol!

But it is a very personal choice.. I was brought up in a culture that doesnt really drink so maybe thats why i dont understand.. 

The point is whatever you chose to do as long as your baby is healthy then i guess nothing else matters.


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## tams (Jun 18, 2006)

Hi Junnie
Like I said, I'm 110% confident that at the levels of drinking I am not going to harm my baby.  I enjoy the taste of it and find it a pleasant thing to do once or twice a week.  I have also personally made the decision to eat goats cheese and brie during this pregnancy (I make sure I buy from good sources and did you know that on the continent women aren't advised to stop eating soft cheese?)
Some people may find this shocking but at the end of the day we are all adults who are capable of making our own decisions.  I can completely understand people giving up alcohol or whatever, but also think it's pretty terrible that e.g. Lully is wondering if people would judge her for having a drink at a party.  Fair enough, judge a pregnant woman if she's going round absolutely plastered, but that doesn't seem to be what anyone is saying they do!
Tams


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## sallywags (Jun 27, 2005)

tams - i too tend to be more flexible on what we should and shouldn't eat... people keep saying we should avoid soft ice cream!! (even from somewhere like McD's where the H&S rules must be Soooo strict!) I've never met anyone who has had food poisoning from a McFlurry.... I do eat some soft cheeses too, i just avoid the blue ones (but will still eat them once they are cooked).  So i think there is a 'moderation' issue here, and being sensible - and i believe that I am being sensible.


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## Lully77 (Apr 11, 2008)

It really is each to their own.  You have to do what feels right for you and as long as you're not drinking excessively I don't see why you should be judged for it.

We've all had difficult journeys to get here and I'm sure would never do anything to harm our babies   

Lully x


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## Bekie (Aug 23, 2004)

I completely agree with Tams and Sally.... its about having something you enjoy in moderation  

I'm pretty sure that the thread isnt supposed to be for judging peoples choices though its to discuss the article.


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## sallywags (Jun 27, 2005)

Good point - but i think that is the point isnt it? by airing what we do it kind of backs up the report, or slates it or however our responses go!!

I agree that the danger is that people will use this as an 'excuse' an d to justify their more excessive drinking (i think it is easy to 'forget' how much you have drunk if you don't want to think about it!!), which i suppose is why a 'no drinking' view is clearer.


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## Junnie (May 17, 2008)

sallywags said:


> tams - i too tend to be more flexible on what we should and shouldn't eat... people keep saying we should avoid soft ice cream!! (even from somewhere like McD's where the H&S rules must be Soooo strict!) I've never met anyone who has had food poisoning from a McFlurry.... I do eat some soft cheeses too, i just avoid the blue ones (but will still eat them once they are cooked). So i think there is a 'moderation' issue here, and being sensible - and i believe that I am being sensible.


LOL yeah how much icecream is in Mcds Icecream heheheh I LOVE the soft icecream from there!!

but the soft icecream they are talkinga bout is a bit outdated... (again being a chef) I know that we used to make soft icecream in restaurants.. and add raw eggs to it... etc.. so i can see the issue with that.

but as far as Mc'ds is concerned its more then safe!

and Sally your right.. I think some people take the p*ss and will say Oh its safe... no worries ill have 1-2 units a night.. and most people dont even realize how much a unit is!!!! its not a glass!

Tams- With regards to people judging.. its a fact of life.. and its going to happen. When you see a kid on the street drinking im sure you think something of that kid.. Or if you see a pregnant woman with a Pint in her hand and a smoke lite in the other.. im sure you think something.. its natural for people to have their opinions...

I know when i go to a restaurant being a bit of a bigger girl im conscience of how much i eat... mainly because no one knows ive got issues with my horomonal balance that causes the weight.. therefore they just think im fat and eat a lot.

Society is the way it is.


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## Junnie (May 17, 2008)

Bekie said:


> I completely agree with Tams and Sally.... its about having something you enjoy in moderation
> 
> I'm pretty sure that the thread isnt supposed to be for judging peoples choices though its to discuss the article.


Im not judging peoples choices.. I just have my own opinion and being a non drinker I was simply asking why the attraction because its something i dont understand.


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## sallywags (Jun 27, 2005)

Junnie - i know what you're getting at.  I've always been a bit of a drinker... i'm ashamed to say!! it was very hard to cut it down in the run up to treatment, as dh and i have always relaxed with a bottle or two of wine in the evenings.  There is a nice feeling to having a drink - even the first sip (actually, sometimes especially the first sip!), which is never going to get through to a bubba! So i suppose a non-drinker might not understand that if you've never really done it.

I've just been listening to Jeremy Vine on Radio 2 - and there was this woman who is obviously a publican who refused to serve a pregnant woman!! I think that's terrible - who the hell is she to judge?!?!  it's not her life and not her decision.  I think people who abuse it are in the minority, and if a woman wants to have a drink then that's her call! It's not even like she's already had a few and then stopped her - she wouldn't allow her to have ONE!

I'm sure some people will agree with her decision, but frankly it's all a bit too big brother for me.


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## sallywags (Jun 27, 2005)

I admire you being able to completely stop - i've never managed it during tx!! 

Just a thought - could the 'pint' have been a large shandy? You never know - could have been half a pint really!! (i know what you mean though - i stare too if something takes me by surprise!!)


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## trollmor (Feb 18, 2004)

I found it quite dificult to cut out the drinking during treatment, but I did it anyway. When I became pregnant I didn't have to struggle at all. I just didn't feel like it. Some of my friends found it very dificult but they bought alcohol free wine and beer. 

I don't agree with any drinking during pregnancy. I don't think it's worth the risk.

Troll


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## ~SUGAR~ (Mar 25, 2006)

_Girls born to light drinkers were 30% less likely to have emotional problems than those born to abstainers, although the researchers say this could be due to family and social backgrounds.

Light drinkers were more likely to be better educated and from higher income households and were less likely to have smoked during pregnancy than abstainers._

I think this was a really important point from the article Personally, I think it's ridiculous to try and research whether children of mothers who dran alcohol whilst pregnant are more/less intelligent; b etter/worse behaved. There are so many factors in a child's developm ent, they can't be pinpointed to one, least of all alcohol consumption.

I agree that articles like this might give uneducated women the green flag to go ahead and drink more, or to justify the amount they drink....but, chances are if they interpret the article like this in the first place, then they probably come from the sort of background that thinks drinking moderately or heavily in pregnancy is ok, and their social/emotional/intellectual circumstances would more than likely produce children with lower intelligence and higher behavioural problems anyway. (Have I explained that clearly? )

It is hard not to judge people, and we all judge from our own experiences and beliefs which is perfetly natural. But, if you are happy to have the odd glass occassionally (as I myself am) and you are aware of the risks and limit yourself accordingly, then you shouldn't feel guilty about this and shouldn't let others' opnions affect you.

We take all sorts of risks when pregnant, some through choice, others not...if you clean up after your cat, eat runny eggs, fly, drive, cross a busy road, work in a stressful environment etc etc. then you are taking risks- albeit small ones. In the end, you just have to use common sense- which is something that I think big brother and the government are depreciating on a daily basis.

Sorry, lecture over! 
Jo xx


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## Bekie (Aug 23, 2004)

trollmor said:


> Some of my friends found it very dificult but they bought alcohol free wine and beer.


I think its fair to say Shloer will be the most popular choice for xmas this year!!!

Junnie - I didnt mean you specifically.... i just didnt want people coming on to the thread and bashing the ladies who have said they would have a small drink if they were in the mood 

I think its a case of each to their own, but i am not sure i believe moderate drinking in pg makes baby boys calmer?!

Bekie


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## sallywags (Jun 27, 2005)

I also think that the values given for 'moderate' drinking in the article is a LOT!!! I would never drink that much when I was pg!! I think it was up to 7 units a week or SIX in one sitting!! OMG - i would feel v wobbly after 6 units when i WASN'T pg!!


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## Bekie (Aug 23, 2004)

sallywags said:


> I also think that the values given for 'moderate' drinking in the article is a LOT!!! I would never drink that much when I was pg!! I think it was up to 7 units a week or SIX in one sitting!! OMG - i would feel v wobbly after 6 units when i WASN'T pg!!


Wobbly i'd be under the table


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## sallywags (Jun 27, 2005)

bobbi - i was just playing devils' advocate hun  as you said, it's very easy to judge, we all do it!!

and i don't think that comment was aimed at you sweetie.


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## Bekie (Aug 23, 2004)

Oh no i hope i haven't offended i really didnt mean anyone on this thread!!! But discussions like this can get very heated very quickly and i've seen it degrade into some serious opnion flinging and one party made to feel atrocious, thats all i meant.  

As i said earlier we are all entitled to our opnion and i dont feel anyone is putting theirs across in an unfair way i just didnt want to see it happen is all!

Bekie


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## martina79 (Jul 27, 2008)

Hi girls
i'm 28w4ds pg & haven't touched a drop since a week before EC - i did drink a bit during treatment which i probably shouldn't have but it was so stressful an odd glass of wine was quite nice!  but once there was a chance i could be pg i stopped.  i don't judge any1 else for doing it but for me its been so hard getting pg i don't want to do anything that could harm my pg.  my big worry was studies showing those who drink have a higher m/c risk.  I also found that until i was about 16wks the smell of alcohol would make me sick! so it was easy not to drink.  i've always been quite a big drinker but now it never even enters my head - i do find the pub quite boring at times but am happy to sit there drinking soda water patting my belly!!  i think i find if i don't drink i don't miss it but if i had one i'd prbably fancy another - i'm sure we've all had times where we were just having one quick drink & then staggered home well past midnight!
i agree with what some of you have said that women who are drinking too much may use it to justify their drinking.  alos not sure if this study took social backgrounds etc into account??  the worry with studies like this is that alot of peolple misjudge how much they actually drink.  1-2 units is basically a small glass of wine - it could be very easy to drink over this amount.  
I also want to breastfeed & dont' intend to drink while i'm nursing so i'm thinking its a good habit to get into!!  & i will def be on the schoer this christmas & new year!! 
xxx


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## sallywags (Jun 27, 2005)

Yep - my dh went out to the car after m was born (at 4 in the morning!) to collect the bottle of chilled champers and our (amazingly useful!) plastic picnic champagne flutes - even the midwife and the registrar had a glass with us!!


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## Junnie (May 17, 2008)

Yeah, i think my MAIN issue with this article is that they are saying woman who DO drink make smarter babies.. and i just really find that hard to believe. I dont think that has anything to do with it. 

like i said before.. I may not drink and  Mrs X may drink.. but i may read to my baby EVERYDAY 3 hours a day and Mrs X does not.. therefore my child may have better vocab.

i just dont want woman thinking they can make smarter bubs by drinking.. and i think this article is glorifying the drinking aspect. without really stressing 1-2 units (1 unit is 125ml of wine) per WEEK. thats all.


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## Spaykay (Nov 29, 2006)

I won't personally drink during pg as I'm paranoid (and never stop at just 1  ) but I respect that others have a small amount. So long as a person is sticking to the recomended levels then that's up to them. We have to trust in the docs or we'd go nuts!  

My baby will be smart either way, coz they'll be mine  

Kay xxx


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## tams (Jun 18, 2006)

Junnie said:


> Yeah, i think my MAIN issue with this article is that they are saying woman who DO drink make smarter babies.. and i just really find that hard to believe. I dont think that has anything to do with it.


To be fair to the actual article, it doesn't say that at all.. it says that women who drink lightly during pregnancies tended to have babies who did better in tests later on. But it then went on to say:
"Children's social and emotional behaviours are heavily influenced by the social environment, and in this study population light alcohol consumption is a marker of relative socio-economic advantage. Therefore it might be that these social circumstances, rather than the direct physico-chemical impact of ethanol, may be responsible for the relatively low rates of subsequent behavioural difficulties and cognitive advantage in children whose mothers were light drinkers".

As per usual, the media outlets have read the bits they wanted to read in the journal and have picked out the soundbites.



Junnie said:


> i think this article is glorifying the drinking aspect. without really stressing 1-2 units (1 unit is 125ml of wine) per WEEK. thats all.


The conclusions specifically say that "Children born to mothers who drank up to 1-2 drinks per week or per occasion in pregnancy were not at increased risk of clinically relevant behavioural difficulties or cognitive defects compared with children of abstinent mothers. Heavy drinking during pregnancy appears to be associated with behavioural problems and cognitive defects in offspring at 3 years whereas light drinking does not".

The journal then goes into some depth about how they compared everything and make it abundently clear they are only talking about very light drinking as having no effect. While the 6-7 units that someone has mentioned below is mentioned in the article, that is because they have defined a "heavy / binge drinker" as someone who drinks 7 or more units per week or 6 or more units in one session!!

Sorry for the long post but it is a real annoyance of mine that journalists pick out the real soundbites without actually reporting the proper facts!

Link to the actual journal article BTW incase anyone is interested is at
http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/dyn230v1

Tams xx


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2008)

Think I'm gonna be a binge-drinker by that definition then  

The last drink I had was the evening after the EC when we went out for a meal.  I didn't even manage all of it.  I had one glass of champagne on Christmas Day 2007 which was actually 2 halves, topped up with juice to make a Bucks Fizz.  I was very sick at the beginning but I really just didn't fancy it to begin with.  Towards the end - Jan/Feb time I did look longingly at DH's wine glass but I thought I may as well just carry on!
I think that if you have tx, then you are more likely tonot risk anything at all.  There are so many people who get pg without knowing and drink for much of the first 3 months which is the must dangerous time.  I know of 3 people that I work with that this happened to and 2 of the 3 babies are smart, happy little girls.  But, these people are all over above average intelligence and socio-economic background and these are things that cannot be scientifically studied.
I think a lot of people seem to forget alcohol is not a necessity to live.  Can't remember where I got this from, but it was 'the only species on earth to drink when not thirsty and eat when not hungry is the human being'


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## Cate1976 (Oct 29, 2007)

I'm starting IVf on 9th November, DH and I rarely drink and when we do it's 2-3 units at home. I've 2 bottles of Belgian beer and I said to DH that I'm going to drink both before next weekend (not sure if they'd still be ok in 2 yrs time if tx works and I'm able to BF). For drinking over Christmas, I'll probably have glass of mulled wine Christmas Eve (alcohol is removed during making) and will buy Eisberg for Christmas day and New Years Eve. Nephews Christening will probably be next spring and I'll only have maybe a few sips of the champagne.

Someone mentioned foods to avoid and with cheese i thought the advice was avoid blue cheese and cheese like Brie but that other soft cheese like Phillidelphia and Cottage Cheese are ok or has the advice changed again?


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2008)

Cate - I ate both with no harm.


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## Spaykay (Nov 29, 2006)

I found a list and the names of most cheeses to avoid were ones I'd never heard of...blue cheeses are to be avoided but apparently ok cooked...I don't like them anyhoo!

Kay xxx


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## Junnie (May 17, 2008)

The cheese thing comes from the fact that they used to make Brie and camenbert (sp) and it wasnt pasturized. obviously unpasturized products carry a risk. Now a days a lot of cheeses incl the above mentioned come pasturized. Again Cream cheese used to be made unpasturized but comapnies like Kraft (philidelphia) pasturize all their products now... again for liability issues  Hope this helps!

Just an FYI- its a myth that cooking takes out the alchol.. all though it does REDUCE the amount of alchol.

When i do my private catering i do put this disclaimer on my Mulled wine 

"It is extremely difficult to assess the alcohol content of mulled wine. Heating is likely to vaporise some alcohol and adding other ingredients, such as fruit juice will also dilute it. Generally, guests should be advised to consider the drink to be as strong as normal wine"

Again it depends on how long its cooked for to just so you know


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## cherriepie (Nov 3, 2007)

Hi all

Sorry to barge in mid conversation but I thought this might help in the decision whether to drink or not. I remembered seeing this on This Morning a few years back and another documentary about it and that's what made me decide not to drink at all but of course, that is an individual choice for every expectant mother.

Here is a link to the definition of FAS (Fetal Alcohol Syndrome) which is caused by drinking alcohol duringp pregnancy and leads to permanent birth defects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_syndrome

There is loads more info about it online although it is important to say that they are still researching the syndrome so there are still questions that don't have answers. The images of FAS on a google search show just how distinctive the "facial stigmata" is/can be.

Of course, we all know that many people do drink during pregnancy (whether only a little or a lot) and their babies have no problems at all but for me......I can do without it for 10 months (or longer if breast feeding). I think the whoel FAS thing just scared me into avoiding alcohol completely.....lol.

Cherriepie

xxxxxxx


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