# Fertility & Gynaecology Acadamy (Amin Gorgy) : Part 12



## Skybreeze

*Happy Chatting
    *​


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## ells

Bookmarking  

Ells


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## deegirl

bookmarking!


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## Songbird80

Hi All,

Have just been reading your posts and had a chuckle about some of the communication issues with DrG   - i've been having the same problems!! Each time I go and see him I try and psyche myself up mentally beforehand and try to be really on the ball so that I can try and understand what he is telling me, but I keep coming away utterly confused and unsure of what he has just told me!!!     I thought I was doing his head in as he gets a bit agitated with me but seems i'm not the only one!!!  
He really is a lovely guy, just needs to brush up on his com skills 

I start stimming on 3rd May at the Lister (my first and only OEIVF cycle as i've got POF so know DEIVF is probably the best way forward).  I'm going all guns blazing on this cycle so that I dont have any regrets (seeing a nutritionist, accupuncture, immunes etc).  

I'm holding off on IVIG, LIT etc until I start stimming as I dont know if i'll respond or not, and dont want to waste lots of money if I dont respond at all.  But both my consultant at the Lister, and Dr G have told me to start taking steroids (Prednisolene) on Day 5 of stimming. Buti've kind of ignored them both and started them 3 weeks ago instead! I'm basically copying some fellow POFers who had cycles at the Lister, didn't respond at all, but subsequently went on to have natural BFPs within 2 months of their failed cycles.  Both of them took steroids before stimming, didn't respond so their cycles got cancelled, so they stopped taking the steroids. They then both got pregnant naturally a couple of months later. They believe the combination of coming off the BCP kickstarting their ovaries, and having the steroids still in their system, made them ovulate a good egg.

Anyway, I'm just having a mild panic about about how i'll feel when I have to stop them as i've heard that it can be pretty hard coming off them.  If I dont respond when I start stimming then I guess i'll stop them straight away.  
Has anyone taken them in advance of stimming like naughty me, and can anyone reassure me that i'll be fine when I stop them?!!

xxxxxx


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## Mousky

bookmarking  

songbird - good luck!


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## Cozy

Just bookmarking so I can read up on everyones adventures

Cozy


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## vw22

Hi songbird, good luck with your OEIVF. The general rule is after 3 weeks taking pred you have to wean yourself off them, anything before that as far as I am aware is ok to stop immediately. The longer you are on them the slower you have to come off them. Agate gave me good advice earlier (backed up by my pharmacy). I was on them for just over three weeks and am now coming off...I didn't feel great to start anyway (headache, insomnia and racing heart) but things have now calmed down. I think its the liver that gets affected the most (?) and thats why you can't just stop them immediately. This, of course you wouldn't necessarily 'feel', but you need to be aware these are strong drugs and can be doing all sorts of things even though you might not feel it. Good luck and would love to tell you off for being 'naughty' and self medicating but know exactly how you feel!!! vx


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## Pigloo

Hi girls

Went to Drs yesterday and I asked about getting the thyroid drugs to get my levels under 2 and he said if i can get something from fertility Dr to say that it is necessary he will prescribe me the drugs.  Does anyone know if Dr Gorgy agrees with the levels under 2 theory and would he write me a letter or something to give to GP as doesn't look like they guna budge until i get some backup from consultant  

We got our first apt with Dr Gorgy next week, hope i'm on the ball as sounds like he's going to be hard to understand!

Pigloo x


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## berry55

Hey girls,

just a quicky to let u all know i started stimming today!!!!! i cant beilive i am doing this all again!!!!!!!!!!! it feels really weird this time, and i feel a lot more scared than i ever have before. You all really need to keep me sane cos i normally go off my trolly on the 2ww (more so than normal) and this time with the immune stuff i'm sure i'm going to b a lot worse!!!!! 

xxxxxxx


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## Klingon Princess

just bookmarking


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## Hope297

Girls,

Can anyone tell me what progesterone Dr G prescribes post et? From memory when I did a couple of cycles with him last year he had me on gestone and cyclogest. Or am I imagining it? I would be grateful if someone could let me know as I'm worried I'm getting too much prog !! 

Hi Klingon!!!

X


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## Cozy

Hope,

Dr G doesnt do a one size fits all type of progesterone dosage. I was on 100mg gestone in the morning and 400mg Cyclogest in the evening, but everyone is different. Some people just have pessaries, some have gestone every other day. If Dr G has prescribed it then he will have/should have prescribed the right amount for you.

Cozy


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## Rose39

Pigloo - Dr G said to me that he'd prescribe me thyroxine as my TSH levels are 3.something. I took in the test results so he could see this himself.

Rose xx


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## 3babies

Book marking


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## Pigloo

Hi Rose, if he prescribes it for me will GP monitor me as i'm not having ivf tx with Dr G.  We having tx at Gateshead

X


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## Bling1975

I took my second Humira tonight and it was very different from the first time. I think I pressed it to hard against the skin and created a vacuum. It hurted so much more and when I removed it 2 big drops came out. I really hope I didn't screw it up.

I am now of for a week in New York before coming over to London for retesting and an appointment with Dr G.


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## agate

vw22 said:


> Hi songbird, good luck with your OEIVF. The general rule is after 3 weeks taking pred you have to wean yourself off them, anything before that as far as I am aware is ok to stop immediately. The longer you are on them the slower you have to come off them. Agate gave me good advice earlier (backed up by my pharmacy). I was on them for just over three weeks and am now coming off...I didn't feel great to start anyway (headache, insomnia and racing heart) but things have now calmed down. I think its the liver that gets affected the most (?) and thats why you can't just stop them immediately.


its your adrenal glands that get affected because pred and similar corticosteroids muck about with your cortisol/adrenaline levels so you are typically a bit 'revved' up when you start them and then if you come off them too quick you feel horrible because of the absence of the synthetically generated hormones that you have started to rely on whilst you've been on them. Generally when you are taking them its best to take them in the morning with breakfast to minimise side effects and then when you come off them, take the first few steps down quickly, but then the lower you get the dose down, the slower you should drop it... to give your body more chance to start producing its own unstimulated adrenal hormones again.

A possible reason why taking steroids earlier would help for poor responders is that they can help to reduce your masculine hormone levels, and some docs think that older/poor responder ladies are more sensitive to masculine hormones, so bringing them down might help the environment that your antral follicles are trying to develop in. its one theory anyway. on the sort of protocols where this has been studied they basically start the steroids (usually dexamethasone) on day 1 of stimms.

Hope: Dr G will particularly take into account your CD19+5+ levels in deciding how much prog you need - he seems to give most ladies 100mg gestone and then adds cyclogest if he thinks you will need more.


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## Desi

Bookmarking.


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## Clarebaby

Hi, just bookmarking.


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## Newday

Can I ask the low LAD is that to do with the DQ alpha match too
Dawn


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## Klingon Princess

I'm starting to get a bit nervous about my appointment now, three weeks to go.  I'm just wondering if I should get in touch with the NHS consultant who did my level 1 blood tests and ask him for a copy of all the results, they were only done a fw months ago.  Am I right in thinking he has to give them to me if I ask?


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## Desi

Dear Klingon Princess,

You need to take as much possible information you have to your appointment with Dr. G, all the info you have might help! As far as I know your medical records are YOURS and you should always be able to have access to them or get copies of them. Read the Dr. Beer book very well in preparation to your visit, Dr.G assumes you know a lot already yourself, he is not really into explaining in much detail. Best of luck!


Dear Ladies, hope someone can shine a light on the following:

1:
If in the test tube it was shown that the NK would decrease better with ILs than with IVIg would it still make sense to have IVIg as well? Or would it be a complete waste? I know the test tube and the body are completely different and therefore there is no guarantee that the reaction in the tube will be the same as in the body, but is there more to understand about IVIg?

2:
Can you have ILs and IVIg at the same time?

3:
How much exactly do you get with IVIg? I have read somewhere it is in grams and depending on your weight?

4:
How much exactly do you get with ILs? Is this also depending on your weight?

5:
Could you have ILs at the same day as your booster LIT?

6:
Is there a good thread somewhere with clear info on ILs and IVIg like the great LIT FAQ?

7:
Does somebody know if there is a good and clear Humira thread?
If you search in FF on Humira I get so many pages, but can not seem to find a clear one.

Many thanks for your help, wishing you all the best and enjoy the weekend.
Take good care!

Desi.
Xxx


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## deegirl

Berry55- That's great that you are stimming!!!  Hope all goes really well.  Can I ask did you retest LAD and if so did you post the bloods from Scotland?  I posted mine last Monday from N Ireland Royal Mail next day delivery before 9am and Dr G told me that the message he got back from RFU was that the cells weren't ok to test on...it seems that the blood must have been too old or something  

KP - all the best for your appointment with Dr G.  Bring a pen and go armed with plenty of questions.

Desi - I would ask those question to Dr G, he will be the best person to advise you but as far as I know you regarding the quantity of IVIG, you may get the standard dose but your weight will determine how slow/fast it is administered. I also was searching for humira and there is a thread on the immuniology forum.  It's pretty good.  I'm sure some of the other girls will also advise you on their experiences with IL/IVIG.

Deex


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## ratsy

Hi klingon

I took with me every test and investigation results i have had done ,I took my notes from all my tx he wanted to look at it all he even wanted to know what dose of ivf drugs i was on last time just be prepared and make sure you write everything down and take a list of questions as you dont want to miss anything  

R x


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## Rose39

Ladies - can I please pick your brains? 

I've been reading Dr Beer's book (again!   ) and I noticed that he had a couple of pages about allergies. Each time I've had embryo transfer I've had an allergic reaction against something - I thought it was the antibiotics from the egg collection, but this time it happened again and I was having donor eggs, so it can't be that! My consultant thought that it was peanut oil in the gestone, but thinking back, I had a similar reaction to the cyclogest as well. I get a red rash across my stomach and back which goes away after a couple of days. 

Dr Beer suggested that some women have an allergic reaction to progesterone, and I'm seriously wondering whether that applies to me? Do you think this is contributing to my IVF failures as surely there is an immune reaction taking place here? (despite the fact that I've been on prednisolone at the time). Has anyone come across this before and how have you been treated to address this problem? Could this be linked to other immune issues (like high TNF alpha which I'm being tested for)?

I did mention it to Dr G but I said that my consultant thought in was a nut oil allergy, and now I'm thinking that it may not be the case, as when I eat nuts I don't have any allergic reactions. 

Many thanks in advance, Rose xx


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## Klingon Princess

oh damn!  your not telling me gestone has peanut oil in it!  I'm not allowed utrogestan because of the peanut oil as I have a very mild allergy to it.  I wonder if that is what caused the itching and swelling aorund the injection sites?


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## Songbird80

Hi Ladies,

VW22 and Agate - thanks for your advice on the Prednisolene. I've been on them for 3 weeks so far and no nasty side effects which is good.

Depending on if I respond when I start stimming next week, i'll either be on them for quite a bit longer, or if I dont respond, will ween off slowly.  I'll have to confess to my Consultant that I completely ignored his advice and took them in advance of stimming so that he can recommend the weening time - hmm, I think he may tell me off! Ah well...    

Good luck to everyone!  xx


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## ells

Songbird, normally the advice is to reduce by 5 mg every 3-5 days.  I generally have always reduced by 5 mg every week as it limits the side-effects like headaches and sickie feeling.  At the end I tend to take one 5 mg tablet everyother day, then 1 every 2 days etc.  Hoep this helps.

KP take everything you've got hun, the more info the better. I forgot all my previous IVF cycle details and Dr G needed the info as it helps him understand whats going on.  Had to fax it through after our initial consult.  

Rose sorry I cant help with your questions, might be worth speaking to Dr G again about it.

Berry congrats on the stimming, you are halfway now hun.

Niccard - hun hows it going?  

Hope everyone else is okay, sending safe travel vibes to all the ladies off to Athens this week, hope that you have some lovely weather.

Ells


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## Klingon Princess

Rose, Ive double checked the leaflets included with the gestone injections and it says nothing about containing peanut oil.  I know that Utrogestan does contain it and I looked up gestone on the internet and it said do not take if allergic to peanuts, but it was talking about a capsulated form, not the injections and it was using the term gestone as synomymous to progesterone.  I do think if it was in the injection, there would be a warning as its such a common and sometimes dangerous allergy nowadays.


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## ratsy

Hi ells

Were not going athens DR T daughter had an accident so hes cancelled clinic bless her 

Its been a nightmare ive been stressed all weekend trying to change everything to the 18th 

R x


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## ratsy

Girls 

can you have LIT while down reg 

Thanks 

R x


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## ells

Ratsy,  I hope Dr T's daughter is not seriously hurt.  It must have been bad for him to cancel the clinic.  I hope you get your LIT sorted out.  I am sure you can have LIT during DR'ing as Dr G told me to go and have it done when we had just started out cycle but we couldnt get there in the end so I still havent had it.  

Ells


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## berry55

Deegirl- There is a private gp in edinburgh that will send the bloods via there courier to tdl so that i dont need to do it. So i have used them for the retest, but when i had it done last week they mucked it all up and i have to go again this week to have it done. Iam very annoyed about it as i have not started stimming and i dont have a clue what my tnfa or lad is. I feel a bit neg about it all now so i know if the retests come back really rubbish i will b very very very negitive and prob be crying all week. My TNFa was very high 2 start with 57.6 but came down to 44.0 after 2 shots of humira. my last humira injection way in March. My last LIT was 23rd march... so i'm hoping that its not all too late now.... surely not!? 

xx


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## berry55

Really need help with this... its urgent. 

I am starting clexane & prednisolone on wed (day 5 of stims) and i have not been taking a calcium vit.... i know i should but i cant find one just on its own. So.... is it ok to take it with added zinc? If so how much should i b taking?? 

xxxx


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## Rose39

Berry - really sorry, I'm not sure how much calcium you should be taking in vitamin form.... I used to drink more milk and have more yogurt during tx cycles to up my intake of calcium.

Klingon Princess - Thank you for checking the leaflet!! I've also been reading through the patient leaflet in the boxes of gestone I have at home, and it doesn't appear to mention peanut oil either... it says that the progesterone comes in benzyl alcohol and ethyl oleate. However, other instructions online do say that some forms of gestone contain peanut oil and that you should let your consultant know if you have a peanut allergy. I'm not allergic to peanuts (I eat peanut butter and am fine) that's why I find it odd that I've had a reaction, especially if previous vials of gestone that I've injected were actually in synthetic oil! I'll check with Dr Gorgy and will report back!

Rose xx


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## berry55

rose- thanks for your reply. I cant drink milk or eat yogurt- they make me sick. Hopfully some1 will come along to give me more advice lol. xxx


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## agate

Klingon Princess said:


> oh damn! your not telling me gestone has peanut oil in it! I'm not allowed utrogestan because of the peanut oil as I have a very mild allergy to it. I wonder if that is what caused the itching and swelling aorund the injection sites?


gestone usually does not contain peanut oil but I THINK you have to check the box instructions for the actual formula that you are going to use just in case.


berry55 said:


> I am starting clexane & prednisolone on wed (day 5 of stims) and i have not been taking a calcium vit.... i know i should but i cant find one just on its own. So.... is it ok to take it with added zinc? If so how much should i b taking??


Berry, don't panic - its not a high priority - its really only going to be an issue if you get pg so end up on clex and pred for longer - so you have time to find some calcium. if you can find it, I'd go for some thing like Lamberts absorbable calcium because its gentle on your stomach. but if you can't find it, pretty much any ca tab/gel cap will do - I'm not sure I'd want to take oodles of zinc (there will be some already in your pregnancy multivits) - but I don't know how much is in the ca tabs you are looking at - and its probably not a big deal if you can't find any other kind - at least it will help you absorb the Ca.

I'd just take 250-500mg per day - the RDA is 800mg but its very bulky and you should be getting quite a bit from your diet anyway - assuming its sensible.. but if you don't eat milk/cheese/yoghurt or lots of tinned fish with bones in (e.g., sardines) maybe you should try and get the whole 800mg per day from pills.



Rose39 said:


> Ladies - can I please pick your brains?
> 
> I've been reading Dr Beer's book (again!  ) and I noticed that he had a couple of pages about allergies. Each time I've had embryo transfer I've had an allergic reaction against something - I thought it was the antibiotics from the egg collection, but this time it happened again and I was having donor eggs, so it can't be that! My consultant thought that it was peanut oil in the gestone, but thinking back, I had a similar reaction to the cyclogest as well. I get a red rash across my stomach and back which goes away after a couple of days.
> 
> Dr Beer suggested that some women have an allergic reaction to progesterone, and I'm seriously wondering whether that applies to me? Do you think this is contributing to my IVF failures as surely there is an immune reaction taking place here? (despite the fact that I've been on prednisolone at the time). Has anyone come across this before and how have you been treated to address this problem? Could this be linked to other immune issues (like high TNF alpha which I'm being tested for)?


its is possible to test for anti-progesterone antibodies, I think e.g., at TDL but I am not sure that the test is generally accepted as being very meaningful - and a full blown prog allergy is supposed to be very rare.
Dr G seems to recommend the NK assay to all his patients which includes a quantification of CD19+5+ B cells - those would include the B cells that would make anti-prog antibodies if you have them. and if their levels are high, he normally prescribes extra prog. If you really had a severe allergic reaction to prog which caused rashes etc wouldn't you get that rash every month with your normal cyclical prog levels?

But basically, I don't know the answer to your question, sorry.



Desi said:


> 1:
> If in the test tube it was shown that the NK would decrease better with ILs than with IVIg would it still make sense to have IVIg as well? Or would it be a complete waste? I know the test tube and the body are completely different and therefore there is no guarantee that the reaction in the tube will be the same as in the body, but is there more to understand about IVIg?yes, there is more to understand - the test tube assay only looks at what the ILs or IVIG does to NK killing power - it can't estimate what it does to NK proliferation (which controls the number of NKs, or what it does to other classes of cells with fertility implications e.g., CD3, CD19+5+ etc - so IVIG may help normalise the numbers of these cells as well as just dealing with the NK killing power. Additionally, there is more evidence so far that IVIG helps normalise TNFa levels - whereas ILs hasn't really been studied for that yet, although logically it ought to help because a lot of the body's TNFa is produced by NK cells
> 
> 2:
> Can you have ILs and IVIg at the same time? yes. you might have say, IVIG at 12 days and ILs at 7 days before ET to try and maximise their effectiveness
> 
> 3:
> How much exactly do you get with IVIg? I have read somewhere it is in grams and depending on your weight?yes, the dosage depends on your body weight - basically it comes in 10g and 5g bottles so you will probably have something like 2 x 10g, 2 x 10g +1 x 5g or 3 x 10g depending on your weight
> 
> 4:
> How much exactly do you get with ILs? Is this also depending on your weight? ILs is cheap so it isn't normally given in a weight dependent dose. A typical dose is 100mls of 20% ILs solution dilluted in 250-500mls of saline
> 
> 5:
> Could you have ILs at the same day as your booster LIT?Its supposed to be fine to do this - but it could be time pressured to fit it all in in one day - and I think you would ideally want your LIT finished before stimms whereas your ILs wouldn't start until part way through stimms (7-14 days before planned ET)
> 
> 6:
> Is there a good thread somewhere with clear info on ILs and IVIg like the great LIT FAQ?no - but I have a feeling I've answered quite a few questions about Ils and IVIG on the investigations and immunology board recently. there is quite a bit of info about IVIG on the yahoo reproductive immunology group but not much on ILs
> 
> 7:
> Does somebody know if there is a good and clear Humira thread?
> If you search in FF on Humira I get so many pages, but can not seem to find a clear one. look for the main humira thread on the investigations and immunology section - but also read the FAQ files on the yahoo reproductive immunology group - you need to join the group to read them


AFM: back home now.


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## berry55

agate- thank you for ur help. I had a look for the Lamberts absorbable calcium and it says that it is with Vit D. I already take vitD so what should i do sorry!!! xx


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## agate

just had a look at mine - no vit D... hold on...

aah there are a couple of different lamberts ones - the one I've got is the Calasorb - no vit D - but if you've got one with extra vit D in it - if its only a little bit (e.g., 5mcg - then just take it on top of your other vits- not a problem) - and if its a lot (e.g, 20mcg - then you could just reduce the amount of vit D you are taking - so that you are aiming for about 25-30mcg of vit D - even that won't be so much of an issue the more sun we all get.


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## Ourturn

Agate - whilst I only produced 3 eggs (but resulted in x2 top quality embies) my stimulation was the best yet and much quicker than normal. Only thing we did differently was that I was on steroids from day 5 of stimms...I did wonder if that helped!

Hi everyone

Anna x


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## Klingon Princess

I dont think it will do any harm to take extra vit D anyway.  I was tested for it at my insistance as I'd rad some stuff frm the Zita West clinic that said lack of vit D is implicated in implantation failure, m/c and pre-eclampsia.  anyway, it turned out my levels were way way low.  The doctor said it is very likely that in these days of worrying about skin cancer and not going out in the sun, that the majority of us are low in this vitamin.
I was also told by the health shop that if you are low in vit D, you wont absorb calcium properly anyway, so can't hurt to take a but extra.


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## mag108

.......some how managed to miss the new thread!

Ladies: Really hope Dr T's daughter is ok. Really sorry to hear about more cancelled LIT in Athens, what a palava and mighty stressful   

Hopefully starting on anti bs for hideen c on Tuesday. Had an eye test yesterday (suffer from migraines and tired eyes but no prescription needed!) no problems but apparently I have calcium deposits ...know I have to avoid calcium during anti-bs.

Lovely swinny said that someone had kindly posted a list of how much calcium is in each food? Does anyone have such a list and would you mind sharing it with me?

xxx to veryone


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## agate

mag: http://www.nnuh.nhs.uk/docs%5Cleaflets%5C197.pdf

this is one that I put on the C thread.

KP: there isn't complete agreement on the max safe level of vit D. it definitely is toxic in excess its just that docs don't agree on what level constitutes 'excess'. The EU RDA is 5 mcg but doses around 30 mcg are definitely safe though - and I am inclined to stick to 25-30mcg (bearing in mind I don't get outside much). Not having seen the dose on Berry's packet, I'd guess she would be safe to take that on top - but I wouldn't like to say for sure without knowing the dose on the packet and what she is already taking... but yes, the reason why I think most of us on here should be on vit D is because its very important for immunoregulation (and we are all here for immune probs) and in winter in the UK most of us will be deficient (and even more so for scottish ladies/darker skinned ladies/stay indoors ladies etc)... and yes, you do need vit D to absorb Ca too.


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## berry55

Agate- thanks hun xx


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## Desi

Dear Agate, how do you do this, you just got home and you are already catching up with all of us, you are the BEST!
Thanks ever so much for you quick replies!

You replied to my questions, which raised some additional questions, sorry:

3:
How much exactly do you get with IVIg? I have read somewhere it is in grams and depending on your weight?yes, the dosage depends on your body weight - basically it comes in 10g and 5g bottles so you will probably have something like 2 x 10g, 2 x 10g +1 x 5g or 3 x 10g depending on your weight. I am trying to understand this a bit more. Any idea how much to the kilo? Is it per 40 kilo 10g or is it different, do you know?

5:
Could you have ILs at the same day as your booster LIT?Its supposed to be fine to do this - but it could be time pressured to fit it all in in one day - and I think you would ideally want your LIT finished before stimms whereas your ILs wouldn't start until part way through stimms (7-14 days before planned ET). Unfortunately my cycle started a full week earlier and completely messed up my time schedule. This means I will be on CD 6 if I probably have my booster LIT, but it is a FET cycle, not a fresh cycle, so ET will probably be around CD18. Therefore I am thinking of having ILs at the same day as my booster LIT, but do not know if ILs would interfere with LIT or vice versa if you have it at the same moment.

I read somewhere that someone had written that her DH had a result of 85% for LIT.... What does this mean? Do you have any idea what this could have been about, sorry do not remember where I read it, maybe on the LIT thread....

Also, it says that it is better not to have LIT whilst being on steriods, but once you are BFP and you might need a booster LIT what do you do then if you are still on steriods? You might have been in that situation or?

Night, night everybody.

Desi.
Xxx


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## agate

How much exactly do you get with IVIg? I have read somewhere it is in grams and depending on your weight?yes, the dosage depends on your body weight - basically it comes in 10g and 5g bottles so you will probably have something like 2 x 10g, 2 x 10g +1 x 5g or 3 x 10g depending on your weight. I am trying to understand this a bit more. Any idea how much to the kilo? Is it per 40 kilo 10g or is it different, do you know? Dr B's book says 400 mg/kg but you have to round the dose to a whole number of bottles

5:
Could you have ILs at the same day as your booster LIT?Its supposed to be fine to do this - but it could be time pressured to fit it all in in one day - and I think you would ideally want your LIT finished before stimms whereas your ILs wouldn't start until part way through stimms (7-14 days before planned ET). Unfortunately my cycle started a full week earlier and completely messed up my time schedule. This means I will be on CD 6 if I probably have my booster LIT, but it is a FET cycle, not a fresh cycle, so ET will probably be around CD18. Therefore I am thinking of having ILs at the same day as my booster LIT, but do not know if ILs would interfere with LIT or vice versa if you have it at the same moment.ILs should not interefere with LIT - but if LIT is on CD6 and ET is on CD18, why not have ILs on about CD10ish so that they are a little time apart just in case? - but I think if you check with Dr G he will say its ok to have them close together if you need to 

I read somewhere that someone had written that her DH had a result of 85% for LIT.... What does this mean? Do you have any idea what this could have been about, sorry do not remember where I read it, maybe on the LIT thread....she was probably giving her % B cell IgG tagged cells on the LAD test - i.e., that when her husband's B cells were incubated with serum from her blood and then analysed - 85% of his cells were 'tagged' by her antibodies - showing a very good level of recognition of his cells by her blood

Also, it says that it is better not to have LIT whilst being on steriods, but once you are BFP and you might need a booster LIT what do you do then if you are still on steriods? You might have been in that situation or?yes. if you need LIT whilst pg - you need to discuss whether it is safe for you to stop/reduce your steroids for a few days whilst you have LIT (given how significant your immune issues are) with your consultant - you will then drop them down as low as is safe just for a few days around your booster - but because you are still on steroids, it might make the LIT less effective (so you might need another booster after that)- but its unavoidable.


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## needjustone

hello ladies

I am new to FF and and thinking of going seeing DR G. Actually i cant decide between Dr G and Care Nottingham!!
Some of you guys really know your stuff, its SO impressive. I have had the NK assay and have a very high number (39%, i think)
I can get all the chicago tests done via my insurance company and was wondering if you could tell me which tests my DH needs. I want to get them all done before I see the consultant to save some time

Thank you for you help and any advice on which doc i should see would be appreciated.I live in London to Dr g would be convenient.
Look forward to joining you all soon

xx


----------



## Donkey

Morning

Rose I too have had a reaction to progesterone.  On my second cycle (first with gemstone) I had lumps and bruising itching and then about a week after I stopped the whole area of my bottom where I had been injecting came out in hives.  It was awful.

The next 2 cycles were better as I was on steriods, I didn’t get the hives but still lumps and itching.  This last cycle I only did 1 gestone injection because of the failed fertilisation.  It was still a lump and itching after 2 weeks and the area is still tender.

I have extremely high cd19+5+ at 50%.  Dr G and Dr T didn’t really have an answer.  I am not allergic to peanuts, so I don’t really have an answer just empathising and sharing notes to see if us girls can piece things together! 


Vit D, my tablets are 25(m)g…not mg as the m has a long left tail and I think it’s pronounced mew.  How many of these should I take?


Ells and Agate, I hope you and your babies are doing well.

Love to you all

Donkey xxx


----------



## agate

Donkey said:


> Vit D, my tablets are 25(m)g&#8230;not mg as the m has a long left tail and I think it's pronounced mew. How many of these should I take?


that's the symbol for micro - so its 25 mcg - I'd go with one of those unless you have reason to think you are particularly deficient in vit d


----------



## Mousky

Hello everyone,

I'm sorry to hear some of you had to postpone the trip to Athens again. I hope Dr T's girl is OK  

After all this talk I'm gonna check on my Vit D dose. I know I'm gonna have to cut on lots of my supplements when the cycle really starts.

We're also trying to get our file from our cons to take it to Dr G but I'm not sure this is going to work   Is there anyone else going on Wed?

Mag - I had to take calcium blockers (+ fluoxetine and some others) for my migraines and it helped. It was pretty serious as I wouldn't leave the house   I hope you'll feel better with the diet   

Agate - I hope you had a nice break  

Big   to everyone and   with everything.


----------



## Donkey

Thanks agate xxx

I have heard that Vit D is good for reducing immunes / NK cells...anyone else heard this?

xxx


----------



## agate

vit D is part of the mechanism for regulating your immunes - so it MAY help bring down NKs that are too high, or bring them up if they are too low etc


----------



## CLS

Just wondering if any of you can help me with this.

Dr. G left me a message via Akvil and its often faster to get a reply from you guys than it is to try and get clarification from him!

Before we start our next IVF treatment with Dr. G, he's asked that my husband and I have the following tests:
Me: H&S
Husband: Semen for C&S  (culture & sensitivity?)

Dr. G said we can get them done with him or from our local GP (the latter is my preference as it will save us some money).

Can anyone clarify what the full unabbreviated names of the tests are so I can get them done with our GP?

Many thanks,

CLS


----------



## agate

CLS:

I am sorry but I can't think of what those abbreviations stand for.  I am pretty sure C&S can't be something and sensitivity - there is nothing like that. 

Semen tests would usually be a) semen analysis for count/motility/morphology b) sperm genetics e.g., DNA fragmentation or c) semen culture or pcr tests for infection e.g., chlamydia or mycoplasma etc.

I can't think what the H&S tests would be either.
Normally before IVF you would both need Hep B, Hep C and HIV screening tests and you would need a recent day 2 FSH (and probably LH and prolactin).

I think you have to back to Akvil and ask him to say which tests he means.


----------



## Tokii

CLS, 

HS is a swab test to check for infection like mycloplasma, ureaplasma.

I did one with Dr G last friday.

Tokii


----------



## agate

ahh - do you think its a "high swab" as in high vaginal swab - mainly for chlamydia as well as the other bugs you mentioned?


----------



## bbm09

I was with Dr G at the weekend and while he said DH should get a semen culture and sensitivity test which tests the semen for microorganisms and I should get the swab for the same and both of these should be done 4/5 weeks after we finish AB for the hidden c and then do the retest for hidden after that again.


----------



## Donkey

Does anyone know the email for the F&G Academy?  I want to email Akvil?

Thanks
Donkey xx


----------



## deegirl

Berry - Many thanks for the information regarding LAD retest and transporting it to TDL.  I really hope the private clinic gets it right this week...   We have just booked flights to London for next Tuesday, £100 to get some bloods taken...crazy but at least it will give us peace of mind. I really cannot afford anymore delays.  Try not to worry about your LIT levels, Peg2 recently got a BCP (whoooohooooo!!!) and after 2 LITS her LAD went down   (she didn't get time to get a 3rd LIT).  

Donkey - the email address is on their website, however I don't know if there is a separate email for Akvil.  Anyone else know  

Agate - hope you had a great trip away and glad to be home again.  

Nite all....Dee x


----------



## Donkey

Thanks Dee, I'll have another look as I couldn't see it  

Peg that's fantastic news  

night all
donkey xx


----------



## berry55

I know, its great news about Peg2!! I'm so happy for her!  

Girls i'm wondering if any1 can put my mind at ease.... here i go...   

I am on day 3 of stimming and this is my 1st time i have ever had the postrap injection b4 i started stimming. Normally i just start stimming and then on day 3 of stims i take cetrotide too. My clinic told me that i dont need this as i had the postrap. I know the clinic know what they r doing... but is there any chance that i could actually ovulate whilst still having had the postrap injection? 

xxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Mousky

Ladies,

A question   I've noticed none of you have mentioned the fasting insulin resistance test so I take it Dr G doesn't request it   It seems they're requesting it in AEB and as I have PCOS I was under the impression I'd need it. So you don't need to fast before going to Dr G (and TDL)? 

Also, I'm trying to find out the price of karyotype test at TDL or any other place where I could get it privately   Does anyone know it?

Is this high swab any different than a "swab"? I was preparing for the menstrual blood again...

Ok, 3 questions  

Congrats to Peg  

Mousky


----------



## agate

berry55 said:


> is there any chance that i could actually ovulate whilst still having had the postrap injection?


you've basically been doing the short antagonist protocol before and are now doing the long (agonist) protocol. in the short antagonist protocol, the antagonist (cetrotide) should prevent the LH surge and so prevent ovulation before EC. in the long protocol, the agonist (prostrap) should do the same job.


Mousky said:


> Ladies,
> 
> A question  I've noticed none of you have mentioned the fasting insulin resistance test so I take it Dr G doesn't request it  It seems they're requesting it in AEB and as I have PCOS I was under the impression I'd need it. So you don't need to fast before going to Dr G (and TDL)?
> 
> Also, I'm trying to find out the price of karyotype test at TDL or any other place where I could get it privately  Does anyone know it?
> 
> Is this high swab any different than a "swab"? I was preparing for the menstrual blood again...


its the same thing as the cervical swab, I THINK. I also got the impression that Dr G is still trying to work out which is the best method for testing for C and other bugs, but it didn't sound as though he had come to any conclusions when I saw him last week.

you can phone TDL in the morning and ask for the price for the karyotyping test - its TDL code is KARY. TDL's phone number is on their website www.tdlpathology.com

Dr G doesn't routinely test for insulin resistance - but he might want to do that or something similar for a lady with pcos - so although you wouldn't normally need to fast before going to TDL for tests, its just possible that he might think fasting insulin is a good idea for you because of the pcos - if you needed it though, couldn't you get it done later at home?

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## Mousky

I just received an email from TDL   and in case anyone else is wondering it costs ₤ 216 (for each partner) It's supposed to be cheaper in BE but my cons doesn't want to request it


----------



## mag108

thks for the link Agate.

Hard enough to find rice/soya milk that doesnt have calcium added....

Mousky I didnt know there was a relationship between  calcium  and migraines?...can u say more

xxx


----------



## TSP

bookmarking


----------



## MissyMinx

Hi Ladies, 

Apologies for not coming on here more often, I do read daily, but atm I'm finding things a wee bit difficult and so I'm finding it difficult to post...

Berry, I really hope your stimms are going well.  Sending you so much   for this tx. 

Mag108, sending you  

Agate, I'll email you, but really hope you and LO are ok...  Sending you  

Donkey, loads of  

Massive congrats to Peg   

Mousky, hope you're ok. xx

Deegirl, how're you doing lovely? x

Swinny, so pleased to hear that everything went well this weekend.  Loads of   to you.

Hi to BBM09, Tokii, CLS, Needjustone, Desi and all the other lovely F&G ladies.  So sorry to those that I've missed, sending you all  

AFM, I feel as though I'm just about struggling to keep my head above water - it's tough going though.  My Dad continues to ail and had another mini-stroke at the weekend, that's the third one he's had in 3 weeks.  He was put on meds to prevent them after the first two, so his having the third was disappointing to say the least.  The Docs told him that the meds reduce the risk of a major event from 90% to 40%, which is good, but it's difficult to know what the future holds.  I'm dreading the call that he's had a massive stroke and been left incapacitated.  He's so confused as it is.  The familial things, combined with other issues that I'm dealing with atm, have resulted in my feeling a bit as though things are getting on top of me.  I'm gutted that our first LIT was for nothing, but then again, I did get to meet so many of the lovely FF girls, so I'm actually thrilled that I went.

There's been a couple of pg announcements amongst my friends just this morning, and although I am genuinely delighted for the girls, it still feels as though my heart's breaking for DH and I.  There just seems to be one challenge after another sometimes, and this must be one of those times.  I just want to be able to laugh and feel carefree without there always being a black cloud of infertility tainting everything that's good.

Anyway, I'm sorry ladies - I think I just need to have a word with myself    and drag myself kicking and snarling out of the doldrums.  Gosh, I've just re-read what I've written, how miserable?!!  

Before I depress you all futher, I'll get on and try and do some work.  I hope you're all ok though.  Sending you massive  

Loads of love,

Em.x


----------



## ells

Em just wanted to send you a massive   you really are having a tough time hunni.  I hoep that your Dad responds better to the meds now and is soon on the road to recovery. I dont know if this will help but when my grandad had his stroke we used to bring in a radio/cd player for him to listen to his favorite music - apprently the way the brain works songs a very soothing and help with any confussion he may be having.   

Peg congratulations     .

Berry hope stims are going okay.

Hi to everyone else, hope you are all well.

Ells


----------



## bbm09

Mags108, Big hug to you pet. Its an awful time for you. Dont feel bad about posting your worries on here, we are all here to help each other. I hope your dad will be OK.  
I had a new baby announcement yesterday on top of a nightmare journey back to Dublin from London (DH booked wrong day on internet and we had to pay over €600 to get home) and yesterday was a bad day but am feeling better today. Hopefully our turn will come soon xxxx


----------



## bubbles09

Morning Ladies

Im loving the new site.. I didnt realise that there was a new thread.. I thought it was getting a bit quiet.. lol

First of all massive hugs to Em.. I really hope your dad stabalises and starts to feel better xxxx

Berry - Congrats on starting ur stimms.

I will be back later with more personals.. Just rushing to work.

I just have a quick question for the ladies on Clexane. I have been reading on here its good to take calcium tablets. When should you start taking them,  is it before or during the cycle. The other question is Im taking vitabiotics pregnacare conception which has 60mg of magnesium in ,15 mg of Zinc, 1000mg of copper 50mg of selenium 15mg of vitamin D. The only calcium that I saw in the shop that was suitable for pregnancy was Vitabiotics osteocare which said was suitable to be taken with other vitamins in their range but also contains300mg of magnesium, 10mg of Zinc, 1000mg of copper, 50mg of selenium, 5mg of vitamin D. Would I be overdosing on those vitamins. Also it containsmanganese 0.5mg and boron 0.6mg.

Is this all safe to take with Clexane, Prednosolone and baby aspirin. Do I start the baby aspirin on day 5 of my cycle like the clexane.

Sorry for all the questions.

Love and light to all xxxx


----------



## berry55

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO look at the new layout!!! very pretty!!!! 

I'm so so so worried now as i had my bloods taken yesterday for retesting LAD and TNFa and now this bloody ash cloud has appeard again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really am starting to think this is not ment to be. We have been challanged at evey stage of immune stuff. 1st LIT Greek strike. 2nd LIT BA strike. 1st retest ASH cloud 2nd retest Courier mucks it up and now 3rd retest ASH cloud decided to come back. WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do u think it will b ok and i'm just worring too much? I seen on the news it says scottish airspace & irish airspace is closed for now. My bloods were being courierd to TDL lastnight and should reach TDL this morning  so they can then go onto The Big USA. calming words much appreciated. 

I have also started clexane and steroids today. Now on day 5 of Stims- not feeling much going on to be honest. xxxxxxxxx


----------



## agate

bubbles09 said:


> I just have a quick question for the ladies on Clexane. I have been reading on here its good to take calcium tablets. When should you start taking them, is it before or during the cycle. The other question is Im taking vitabiotics pregnacare conception which has 60mg of magnesium in ,15 mg of Zinc, 1000mg of copper 50mg of selenium 15mg of vitamin D. The only calcium that I saw in the shop that was suitable for pregnancy was Vitabiotics osteocare which said was suitable to be taken with other vitamins in their range but also contains300mg of magnesium, 10mg of Zinc, 1000mg of copper, 50mg of selenium, 5mg of vitamin D. Would I be overdosing on those vitamins. Also it containsmanganese 0.5mg and boron 0.6mg.
> 
> Is this all safe to take with Clexane, Prednosolone and baby aspirin. Do I start the baby aspirin on day 5 of my cycle like the clexane.


I am thinking that you might be muddling up your mg and your mcg (because if those were all mg they would be enormous doses - I was looking at the selenium). So assuming that your prenatal vits have sensible doses (and that you are just mistaking your micrograms for milligrams etc)if it was me I would stick to your prenatal vits and then add a plain vanilla calcium supplement with either just calcium in it (calcium carbonate, calcium phosphate or calcium citrate), or if you are not on a lot of extra vitamin D already, one with calcium plus vitamin D. The reason I say that is that I don't think you really want to be doubling up on, for example, selenium - which is pretty toxic in excess. My preference would be for calcium citrate ideally and if not that, then calcium phosphate, and otherwise calcium carbonate - only because calcium citrate is the most easily dissolved in your stomach, followed by phosphate then carbonate (think limestone/chalk - that's what calcium carbonate is, whereas calcium phosphate is basically the same as fishbones etc) - and bear in mind that because calcium is bulky - these are big pills!. the Lamberts calasorb calcium citrate tabs have never given me belly ache - but I have also used some boots gelcaps (Ca carbonate with vit D and K) which wouldn't be a bad choice either. I can't think of any reason why any calcium tabs shouldn't be taken in pg (unless they've got something else in them that you don't need). The main reason why there isn't a lot of calcium in prenatal vits is basically because calcium is so bulky that the tablets would be enormous. As long as you are eating a good diet with some milk/cheese/yoghurt, then I'd stick to something like 300-800mg of calcium per day - no more than that. I have quite a bit of dairy so at the moment I stick to the lower end of that, but I think when you are later in 3rd trimester/breastfeeding then you are supposed to take more.

There is no rush to start taking them - the issues with prednisolone and clexane (mainly related to bone thinning) are more of a problem the longer you take them for - so you'd probably just start them when/after you start your pred and clex.

I think you are right about the baby aspirin if you have been advised to take that.

Berry: Is the ash cloud going to stop your bloods from going off? I am probably way behind on what's happening but if London is ok, and the bloods go overland to there and then by plane from london wouldn't they still be ok? You can always phone TDL referrrals dept in London and ask them?

This new layout - the typing box for messages is very small and I can't remember what I wrote a couple of sentences back... I don't think its as suitable for the mentally challenged like me!


----------



## Pigloo

Oh bugger, i just had my bloods done today as well, do the natural killer bloods go to america??  Hope this ash cloud is not going to affect them going.  Just had a look at heathrow and flights disrupted to ireland and scotland only. All other international flights ok,        they don't get disrupted.


----------



## agate

yes, they go to RFU chicago - but hopefully flights from london are still ok (and the results come back electronically).


----------



## sarahh

Hi ladies just typing on iPhone so may b some errors! Just a note on vit k apparently it is an anticoagulant & there is a warning 2 seek medical advice if taking @ the same time as blood thinners. 
Anyone got any idea how much notice fedex need 2 collect sample 4 c? Going 2 try 2 collect 2day or 2moro. 
Post more later not easy frm phone!
Sarah x


----------



## agate

sarahh said:


> Just a note on vit k apparently it is an anticoagulant & there is a warning 2 seek medical advice if taking @ the same time as blood thinners.
> Anyone got any idea how much notice fedex need 2 collect sample 4 c? Going 2 try 2 collect 2day or 2moro.


I am pretty sure that can't be correct. Vit K is needed for coagulation not anticoagulation - deficiency (very rare) causes bleeding rather than excess of it causing bleeding, but clearly it does act in opposition to blood thinners so you wouldn't want a lot of it if you are significant risk of blood clots (which is presumably why it would show a warning on the bottle as patients who are on blood thinning medication for non-TTC reasons would be on it only because they are at high risk of medically dangerous clots)- but I would definitely agree that it is better not to take anything that you don't need and to always err on the side of caution.

just checked and apparently the only issue about taking vit K with anticoagulants is with the oral ones like warfarin. its not supposed to be a problem with clexane (or other heparins), and vit K is definitely not an anticoagulant.

sorry - don't know about fedex - I guess you'd have to phone them?


----------



## niccad

Hi all - I somehow managed to miss the new thread   and we're already so many pages in... !! Will read back...
Hope you are all ok
x


----------



## agate

Some really big news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Choice4 had a baby girl on on 29 April and they are both fine!

congratulations to Choice4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ells

CONGRATULATIONS Choice, you must be so thrilled            

Ells


----------



## 3babies

How nice it is to read about birth announcments 

 are in order Choice on the birth of your buba   

They've even changed the site layout to pink just for you 

Hope momma & baby are doing well  
weldone you x

2babies x


----------



## berry55

Congratulations Choice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Mandchris

Choice - Congrtulations!!  I was actually the patient who was with Dr Gorgy when you called him earlier. So pleased for you !
Mandy xxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## CLS

Agate, Tokii and bbm09 - many thanks for your help with the H&S and C&S tests that Mr. G has requested we get done.

I'm waiting to hear back from Akvil so once I get the info, I'll let you know!

CLS


----------



## ratsy

CONGRATULATIONS choice and dh on the birth of your baby girl   

Best wishes  

R x


----------



## Louiseb26

A big    on your baby girl Choice...how exciting    Well done lovely.

Lou xx


----------



## Ourturn

CONGRATULATIONS CHOICE!


----------



## Mousky

We had a long tiresome day in London but I wanted to send big hugs to Em and congrats to Choice4!

Pigloo and Berry - I was also super worried about our bloods not going to Chicago today. tbh, I'm still surprised we could get in and out of London with no disruptions.

CLS - I was also told to do these tests. He actually wrote it down for us but still we need to look it up.

I'll come back tomorrow with a better post.

Love to all.

ps. what happened to the smileys?


----------



## mag108

Missyminx: you write beautifully. Sending you a big hug. It is so so hard when ones parents are going through what your poor Dad is going through. I can totally understand why you feel its all getting on top of you. CAn you get a bit of time on your own or with DH to get off for a walk somewhere nice hill/seaside?    
As for the pg announcements, its so so hard.... no easy way but sometimes I remember to draw a breath and imagine all of us gorgeous F friends.   

CONGRATs Choice and dh on the birth of your little baby girl   

SKybreeze: Please say a big thanks to the team for the great looking new site

AFM:I have read back but not much time to post this last week or so.
Started Anti-b's for hidden c last night. Confused: I have 21 boxes containing 8 Doxycycline. Dr G's prescriptios is hard to make out. It says
Day 3-23 Doxycycline 100mg (something I cant make out) x 3/52 after meals. The pharmacist makes that out to be one twice a day after meals! Any ideas what I should be doing?

xx


----------



## bubbles09

Congratulations Choice    

Thanks Agate xx


----------



## Ourturn

Mag - dh and I each took x1 100mg of doxy in the morning and one in the evening with meals. Presume that's it? Pretty sure both of you should be taking x2 per day 

Anna x


----------



## deegirl

FAB news about Choice and her baby girl.....CONGRATULATIONS!!

I'm just on very quickly as I had a car accident yesterday and have had lots to sort out...I'm so tired.  I noticed some of you had questioned costs via TDL for karyotyping.  I had this done and got Healthcare at Home to take the bloods, I paid £130 for both my husband and myself.  However you do need to specify a doctor for the test results to go to.  At the time I specified the clinic I was cycling with.

Not liking the new format....there is typing delay, it's making my eyes go funny!!


----------



## berry55

Deegirl- i'm sorry to see you had a car accident, r u ok? xxx


----------



## agate

mag108 said:


> AFM:I have read back but not much time to post this last week or so.
> Started Anti-b's for hidden c last night. Confused: I have 21 boxes containing 8 Doxycycline. Dr G's prescriptios is hard to make out. It says
> Day 3-23 Doxycycline 100mg (something I cant make out) x 3/52 after meals. The pharmacist makes that out to be one twice a day after meals! Any ideas what I should be doing?


3/52 = 3 weeks = 21 days. Should be 100 mg twice a day for each of you. Avoid taking it with milk/cheese/yoghurt, and any tabs containing calcium or iron.

Deegirl: I am so sorry to hear about that. I hope you are ok. That sounds pretty cheap for karyotyping!


----------



## Mousky

Dee - hope you''re Ok, sorry about the accident   re the karyotyping tests it will probably not apply to me as I don't live in the UK but did you need a referral? It's indeed quite cheap.


----------



## mag108

thks ladies I feel so much better. Very confusing px!


----------



## berry55

Hi girls,

Just wanted to as you all about when i take the prednisolone and the clexane. I take my clexane injection when i do my stimming injection and i take the pred when i take the rest of my vits which is usually early afternoon. Do u think thats ok 

xxxxxxx


----------



## Ourturn

Berry - you need to take the pred with breakfast, reason being it can cause insomnia so you should take it early in the day. 
I did my celexane in the mornings to, just to avoid taking all my injections together and also because I took baby aspirin in the evenings
Anna x


----------



## ells

Hi Berry,

I have always been told to take the pred in the morning as they can cause insomnia.  
Do you do your stim jab in the morning?  I am sure the clexane jab is fine, the girls on here told me to do mine in the morning in case I had to have a blood test - it has to be done within 2 hours of doing the jab.

Hope that helps hunni.

Hi to everyone else, 

Dee I hope you are okay hunni!   

Ells


----------



## berry55

Thanks for the replys ells & sobroody. I do my stimming injection at about 9am... so i have been doing the clexane just after that one. I will take the pred in the morning with breakfast. Thanks again. xxxx


----------



## Louiseb26

Morning Lovelys

Em - Sending you a big   my lovely.I'm so sorry about your dad.I'm wishing him a speedy recovery.Stay strong Hun   

Dee - Hope you feeling OK after the car cash...and i hope you wasn't hurt   

Anna - Have you been on holiday yet? I'm off to Spain on the 20th and cant wait   

Berry - Hope your feeling ok Hun? your doing great   

Shellie - Where have you been lovely? How it all going   

Agate - Sending you the biggest   Your just great with all your knowledge...don't ever leave us.

Ratsy - Hope your all set and not to stressed about it all.Keep telling yourself,all good things come to those who wait    

2Babies - What decision have you made about the LIT?   

Ells - Hope you and the little ones are doing well lovely   

Zeka - Hope your home safe,and had a lovely time away...what with all the stress   

Sending   to Peanuts,Cozy,Billberry,Mag,Shelly,D,Sarahh,Swinny and anyone else i missed.

Lou xx


----------



## Mousky

Ladies,

Is it correct to assume everyone is on steroids, clexane and aspirin? Dr G indicated I'd take it regardless of my results (my thyroid issues?) and I was a bit surprised about it.
Also he suggested me to have the TB test which I declined because I still don't know if I'll need Humira. He has the impression I'll need it?   I hope it's only a wild guess   
I decided not to worry yet about the high swab and the "culture& sensitivity SA" (I have no idea where to have it done) and I'm still looking into the karyotyping test.
We're taking our last C AB today   so another few 6 weeks and retest   

Anyway,

Berry - I hope you're stimming is going well   when are you going for a scan?

Mag - I'm afraid I don't remember the details on the calcium - migraine issue. I was prescribed a calcium channel blocker as they believe it influences the blood flow in the brain or something. But I took it together with fluoxetin and some other supplements. It really helped! Btw, I hope you can sort out the AB. Maybe you want to combine it with some omeprazol/ranitidin (sp)?    

A big   to everyone else.
Hope you're well!

Mousky xx


----------



## berry55

Mousky- I have a scan tomorrow... so here is hoping things r going ok! I am not on Asprin, only clexane nd prednisolone. xxx


----------



## ells

Mousky,  I think everyone is different but alot of us are on clexane, pred and asprin.  Have you had your level 2 results back?  There msut be something amongst your history that is telling Dr G that you'll likely need these bits.  Great news on the AB's though, it must be a good feeling when you are coming to the end of the course - good luck for the re-test.

Berry good luck for your scan tomorrow    .
Ells


----------



## agate

Mousky said:


> Is it correct to assume everyone is on steroids, clexane and aspirin? Dr G indicated I'd take it regardless of my results (my thyroid issues?) and I was a bit surprised about it.


I think they way he usually works is:
- steroids if there are any issues with the NK assay OR with TNFa OR with uNKs (with often humira/ILs/IVIG depending on the results)
- clexane if there are any clotting issues (from level 1 or inherited thrombophilia results) OR if there are any NK issues (from NK assay or Ubiopsy)
- aspirin if there are any clotting issues

so if he is saying you are likely to need all of these before your level 2 results come back, I THINK he is guessing from your history that you will have immune and/or clotting issues coming back in your results.


----------



## Mousky

We got an impression he indicated it because we already know I have autoimmune thyroiditis. But I see so many questions about clexane and prednisone. Obviously, I assume his patients have an "extra" need so it makes perfect sense.

Berry - good luck    

Ells - we had the last dose of azithromicin today, imo, this is the worst one   Our results should only be back in a week or two. I hope it's nothing too bad but we'll see. How you're feeling?


----------



## ells

Mousky it sounds like you will need the extras then!!  I really    that your results come back good!!
I am feeling okay, still worry about the LO's every day but I think thats to be expected    .  Other then tiredness I feel okay.  I hope that the last tablet does make you feel too yucky!!  At least you will have no more to take tomorrow    .

Hi Agate - how are you doing?  Hows the LO, can you feel her moving about more now?

Ells


----------



## agate

Mousky said:


> I decided not to worry yet about the high swab and the "culture& sensitivity SA" (I have no idea where to have it done) and I'm still looking into the karyotyping test.


I would think you could get the swab done in lots of places - maybe your GP?
the semen culture must be a fairly standard test too - at least you can definitely do it at TDL - its on their test list (although I think its one where you have to make an appointment so that they have a room available for giving the sample in) - but I don't know about the 'sensitivity' bit - I think it means that if the lab do manage to grow any bugs from the semen culture - they test them with a splodge of the common antibioticss to see which one is the best at killing the bug off - so that the doc knows which antiB to prescribe to your DH. So I don't know if the sensitivity bit is always done if they find any bugs in the culture or whether its something you have to ask for specifically.

Ells: am ok. A bit gloomy with (non TTC) stuff preying on my mind again. and really tired. sleeping most of the day at the moment. LO had a good kick this morning and my retest was much better (except for CD19+5+) so I think I will hopefully get away with only 2 more drips and hopefully they will be ILs. I had half a chocolate orange over the course of the week between my IVIG and my dodgy retest - I think the flare was more likely to be the flare that Dr G says is common around 18-22 weeks of pg rather than because I ate 'demon food'... but its made me really reluctant to risk eating anymore choc until LO is home and safe... which is a shame because the more I think about the stuff, the more I want some... maybe I will get a bar of demon food to eat after she arrives. my hair is still falling out in handfuls although it looks absolutely fine - which is odd.

When is your next scan?


----------



## ells

Oh Agate    you sound low hun.  I really hope you are able to sort out the non-ttc stuff so that you are not stressed about it.  Good news on the retest results!!  Its always a bonus when that happens.  I really hope you will only have to have IL's.  On the demon food front - I had a flake yesterday but I didnt enjoy it as much as I thought I would - I figured it would be okay as I had IL's yesterday    I just really fancied it and I am not normal one to crave chocolate.  I would get a sack load of your favorite choc bars ready to tuck into after your LO arrives - you really desereve it!!  Have you asked Dr G about your hair?  I do remember reading an article sometime ago about another lady that started to get allopecia when she was pregnant but everything returned to normal after the birth.  
I havent got a date for my next scan yet, the MW said I should hear from them with in the next 3 weeks.  We have our consultant appointment on Monday so I am hoping that we get a scan then    .

Look after yourself hun    
Ells


----------



## Mandchris

Hi everyone

I wondered if i could ask those who had to have Humira what was the best price you managed to get it for? and where from? Dr G told me that I should shop around as the price varies greatly?

Thanks Mandy xxx


----------



## Cozy

mandy,

I got mine from HCAH and I think it about £750 for 2, that was the cheapest I found it at the time.

Cozy


----------



## Mandchris

Cozy - Thanks very much! Gosh I cant believe how far along you are in your pregancy, time flies on these boards for sure! Although I have been around for a while now - Im hoping my luck will change   
Love to everyone xx


----------



## Pigloo

Mousky - Dr G advised me to have some tests done (he wrote them down) hysteroscopy i think and for DP to have semen culture and sensitivity done.  He advised to go to GP and ask him to get them done or refer me to where i can get them done.

He never mentioned the steroids and clexane to me but i guess he would assess after results.

Oh and I got precription for thyroxine but advised to get GP to write prescription as he will need to monitor me and then to ring Dr G in 3 weeks with levels

Pigloo x


----------



## ratsy

Hi mandchris 

I bought my humira at [email protected] it was £745 that was last week  asda wanted £840 ,Also just to let you know i went to buy the humira on my credit card and they wanted to charge me £14 extra for using it so i bought it on normal debit card with no extra cost 

Hope this helps 

R    x


----------



## Mousky

Hello again   

Agate - that must be really stressful for you   do you even have energy to prepare for the arrival of your baby girl? I hope the next few weeks will fly by with no extra worries   

Pigloo -  are you going for the high swab as well? if it's like a regular smear I should be able to get it around here. I just need to confirm what are the bugs that need to be researched. The same for DH's SA. I had a hysteroscopy last year so at least I won't need this one. So you decided for the thyroxine? I think it's a good move. He was actually interested in my endo's opinion that my TSH should be kept around 1. As he mentioned, most doctors are satisfied with anything below 4   

ratsy - omg,  £14 for using the credit card?


----------



## 3babies

I paid the same amount as you Ratsy £745 from [email protected] including the courier but it's more if you use a credit card so better to use debit card ladies 

2babies x


----------



## Desi

Hi Mandy,

I also got mine at [email protected] for £759 (included 2% extra for CC charges), do not have a debit card.
They were the cheapest when I phoned around last week.

Does anbody know how Dr. G feels about the information that comes with the Humira that you should not get pregnant within 5 months after having Humira??

Best of luck to all of you.
Desi
Xx


----------



## ratsy

Hi girls 

Can anyone tell me when i start stimms when will i have ILs and IVIG just wondered as DR G  didnt tell me he said ive got plenty of time to sort that out ive got high CD56 - 40 so was wondering what days i would start or is it different for everybody 

Thanks R    x


----------



## deegirl

Girls, thanks for enquiring after me, I'm very fortunate to be totally fine after the car accident.  The other driver is also unhurt, I'm very thankful. My car is not fine but getting fixed.   

Agate - sorry you're feeling a bit low, hope you have a better day tomorrow.  I think you've been so good with your diet by the sounds of it, everyone needs a little bit of 'demon food' once in a while!!  Think of women who have no problems TTC and the junk that they crave and eat.   

Berry - hope the stimming is going well and creating lots of lovely eggs!   

Mousky - I can't remember if I got a referral or not, I don't think so however I did have to put doc's name on the form and the results went back to him.  

Ells - hope you are enjoying every second of being pregnant!

Louise -   

Nite girls....Dee x


----------



## agate

ratsy said:


> Hi girls
> 
> Can anyone tell me when i start stimms when will i have ILs and IVIG just wondered as DR G didnt tell me he said ive got plenty of time to sort that out ive got high CD56 - 40 so was wondering what days i would start or is it different for everybody


You normally have them between 7-14 days before when your ET is estimated to be to give them chance to get going on your NKs. If you are having 2 drips then you normally have them a few days apart - and Dr G might suggest having the IVIG first given your high CD56.


----------



## mag108

Agate: Sorry to hear you have been so tired. You continue to be a strong presence on here helping everyone! MAke sure you are getting all the rest you need xxxx


----------



## ells

Hi ladies,

Dee glad to hear that you are okay after the accident    .

Ratsy, Dr G told me to have IVIg on days 5-7 of stims and IL on days 5-9.  I had mine - IVIg on day 7 and IL on day 9.

Hope everyone else is okay.   

Ells


----------



## Desi

Hi Ladies,

Sorry I am coming back to you to see if somebody has a reply to my earlier question:
Does anbody know how Dr. G feels about the information that comes with the Humira that you should not get pregnant within 5 months after having Humira    ??

I am also posting on the Humira thread, but it seems not to be very active anymore.

Wishing you all a nice day and weekend to come!   

Xxx


----------



## ells

Desi, I dont really know what Dr G' view on it is other then he has prescribed it to ladies within 5 months/during tx which would be outside the 5 months advice.  My crohns doctor has told me as have a few doctors that I have seen, that it is contraindicated in pregnancy and that because I had my doses before pg it was fine (my first H shot was in Jan and my last one the first week of Feb - we had ET on 13th March).  They have also said that there is no evidence that it causes problems with babies etc but because the tx is fairly new (ie babies from mothers that have taken it are still young/children) they can not say absolutely that there are no problems.  I am sure someone else will be along soon with more info, but I hope this helps a little for now.   

Ells


----------



## Cozy

Desi,

I think only Dr G can answer how he feels about things, but he would not prescribe drugs to people during an IVF cycle if it was too risky.

I have had 2 lots of Humira and have not been advised not to conceive for 5 months. I had mine then did an IVF cycle straight after.

Cozy


----------



## berry55

Hi Girls,

Just wanted to let you all know how the scan went today. I have 15 follies on the right and about 7 on the left. All sizes r between 9-10mm. My lining is at 12.6 today. So far so gd. I have to go back to GCRM on monday for another scan and bloods and its looking like EC will be wed/thurs for me. 



Hope everybody is doing ok.



Sorry for no personals- i'm not at home, on my mums PC and it is very very slow!!! lol 



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## ells

Great news Berry, well done on your follies.  I hope you will have lots of lovely juicy eggies next week!!

Ells


----------



## Pigloo

Mousky - I will see if I can get high swab done and hysteroscopy (will GP refer me to hospital for that?)

I don't know whether to ask my GP to get these things done for me or ask my clinic to get them done, just wondering which will be quickest/easiest as our clinic appointment isn't until June 7th.  I'll prob just ask GP, I hate having to ask them lol 

P x


----------



## Clarebaby

Hi Pigloo

I have just had a quote from my local Nuffield hospital - £1,850 for hysteroscopy!.  So it's NHS or not being done for me.  I have got my GP to do me a referral to the miscarriage clinic to see if I can get it done that way but haven't even had an appointment come through as yet.

I had my high swabs done just at the GPs though.

Clare


----------



## CLS

Hi Ladies,

I've had confiramtion from Dr. G about the two tests - the H&S and the C&S - and they're what we suspected they were.
(ie) The H&S is a high vaginal swab and the C&S for my husband is a semen culture & sensitivty test. 

On another note regarding blood tests prescribed by Dr. G and done at TDL (including Chicago tests and LDA and TNFa re-tests).
To date, I've paid Dr. G and had the bloods taken at TDL a few doors down.

Has anyone had a referral from Dr. G but paid TDL direct and then claimed back from BUPA / another medical insurance company?

Thanks

CLS


----------



## agate

Desi said:


> Does anbody know how Dr. G feels about the information that comes with the Humira that you should not get pregnant within 5 months after having Humira


Desi - I haven't asked him and my mind reading skills only go so far  ... but I believe he follows Dr Beer very closely on this and most other aspects of Tx. As far as I know, humira isn't known to have any adverse effects on the fetus - but it has not been safety tested for pregnancy and the 5 months recommendation refers to how long it would take to completely clear out of your system (obviously the makers of H don't want to get sued if it is found to have some adverse effects that they haven't tested for). However, the studies done by Dr B's group showed that, for example, for ladies with high TNFa, pregnancy success rates were much improved when H was used.

Other docs, e.g., Dr Sher at SIRM prefer to avoid H - mainly because of its lack of safety data for pg- because they say, that, in most cases, high TNFa can be managed by giving ILs (or IVIG) without having to use H. They are probably right if the elevated TNFa is all coming elevated NKa, because ILs (and IVIG) are effective against NKa, but not all TNFa in the body comes from NKs (particularly in e.g., RA, Crohn's etc) - so my GUESS is that ILs cannot be enough to deal with all cases of elevated TNFa - and providing H is safe for the fetus (and there isn't anything concrete to say that it isn't), there would be other advantages to using H instead of, say, IVIG - e.g., the effects of H hopefully last longer than IVIG and its often more potent against TNFa and its a lot cheaper per shot than IVIG - which makes it feasible to to use well before Tx starts to try and get TNFa down to improve egg quality for example.

At the end of the day, you have to be comfortable with whatever you decide to do - whether that's spending the money on these non-mainstream treatments or taking them, knowing that they have not been as comprehensively tested as other drugs - and it ends up being a decision we all have to make for ourselves.

Berry: hurrah! well done you... keep doing whatever it is you are doing!


----------



## sarahh

Hi all,  loads of news on here since I posted 2 days ago!  

Dee, glad you are ok after accident, hope it wasn't too bad! 

Huge congratulations to Choice 4 - I met her doing LIT last year, its a shame she hasn't been on here any more!  

Agate, hope you are taking care of yourself with all your non TTC issues.    I lost loads of hair when I was pg with DD but it does usually come back after the birth, I still have loads of new hairs even now, 3 years on! 

Ells, hope you get to see LO's again on Monday & all is ok   

AFM, I enquired on Weds with Fedex and they pick up the same day if you phone before 3pm; there was me thinking gr8, get that one sorted tomorrow or Friday and (sorry for TMI) had a tiny bleed on Weds am then nothing and still no full flow! And typically having enquired today with Fedex, they don't pick up on weekends?    So if AF arrives over the weekend then do i take a sample and wait till Monday to send it off or will it be too old when it gets there? 

Also I know I've asked before but can others let me know how long after the 2nd Humira inj they retested TNFa levels?  I was thinking of going on Tuesday which will be 11 days after the 2nd inj, is this too early? 

Hope everyone else is ok at the moment and you all have a lovely weekend.  Hope the weather bucks up a bit, its been really cold again here! 
Thanks, Sarah x


----------



## ratsy

Thanks ells hope you and bambinos  all ok    

Berry - congrats on eggies well done knew you could do it   

Hope everyone well 

R x


----------



## Zeka

Just popping on to say    ladies!
Zeka x


----------



## Desi

Dear Ells, Cozy and Agate,

Thanks for your replies!!!

Wishing you all a lovely weekend.
Desi.
Xxx


----------



## berry55

Hi girls  

Looking for a bit of advice from you. I'm now on day 8 of stims and its going ok. I had the postap injection on day 21 of my last cycle so i am not on cetrotide. I am getting a little worried as i am getting so so soooooooooooo much CM (so sorry for the tmi) you dont think that i am going to ovulate, do u? I have been taking the perdnisolone in the morning with breakfast and i have not been having any trouble sleeping now, so thanks for the advice on that girls. My nxt worry is the  Gestone..... poor Peanuts has started that, so i will be sure to get all the ins and outs from her (she only lives about 15 mins away from me) So i am hoping to have a blastocyst transferd back at my ET so when would i start using the Gestone and Crinone Gel? 

Berry xxx


----------



## agate

Berry: CM just indicates that you have high estrogen levels - which you'd expect when you have several follicles developing rather than just one - it tells you nothing about your LH level which is what has to rise to trigger ovulation. 

In a normal, unmedicated cycle, the amount of FSH pumping out from your pituitary gland would be only enough to grow about 1 serious follicle (whereas on stimms you are injecting so much FSH that you are growing lots of follicles).  As your 1 unmedicated follicle grows it would trigger estrogen production which would make more CM, and then as the estrogen reaches a certain tipping point, the pituitary gland would send out a pulse of LH which would trigger ovulation. 

In an IVF cycle either the agonist (prostrap) or antagonist (cetrotide) should switch off your body's own production of FSH and LH - so if the LH surge doesn't happen, you can't ovulate.

Short answer is: CM is a good sign - but in IVF doesn't have anything to do with ovulation.

re gestone: I'd aim to start that straight after you've recovered from EC - if you can get the nurse in the IVF unit to show your DH how to do your first shot, then he will get a helpful tutorial, and from the next day onwards, if he does your shots in the evening at home - that should work out ok?


----------



## berry55

Thanks Agate! I will get the nurse to show DH for defo. I was wanting to ask about when i have EC... when do i stop clexane and the pred and when do i start again? xxx


----------



## Peanuts

Hi Berry

I did my first Gestone injection last night - was really scary to think about, but actually was fine in the end  .  DH was freaked out by the huge needle and didn't want to inject it in my bum!!  
We watched a few of the videos on youtube and then just went for it.  Injection didn't hurt, but then again I've got a plenty of padding there and DH counted to about 25 while he injected, so did it really slowly.  Had a wee spot of blood when the needle came out, but not much.

Just wasn't sure how hard to rub the area afterwards - anyone any tips?

My clinic asked me to stop Cleaxane 48 hours before your EC - so I took my last one on Wed morning for Fri op.  Then started again this morning.
I took my pred for Fri when I got back from the hospital after my EC, as was nil by mouth in the morning.

Posted on LIT thread last night - got 13 eggs yesterday!!  Clinic just called as I was typing - 10 have fertilised!   Can't believe it! So relieved.  Going for ET on Monday and hoepfully have some frosties as a back up plan.  

Agate - sending you big hugs petal, hope your getting your head around non TTC things    
Deegirl - what accident hun?  Hope you're doing ok   

Big hugs to everyone  
Dxx


----------



## agate

Berry: you don't stop pred - you continue that one.  if you've been having your clex first thing, and your trigger is at night (so that EC is in the morning), you can probably still do your clex on trigger day - because it will give you 48 hours clear of clex before EC (otherwise skip it on trigger day) and then none on drug free day and then none on EC day - then you start clex again the day after EC - as far as I remember.  the only reason you stop the clex is just to make sure you don't bleed more heavily when they do the EC because bleeding makes the EC more difficult to do.

Peanuts: erm... not so hard it hurts or that you squeeze all the drug back out again.. but firm enough that you feel like you are massaging the gloop into your muscle?  Just make sure everything is really clean - you should have antiseptic swabs to wipe before you stab - a new needle for injecting (after using another one for drawing the drug up) and a clean cotton wool pad for your after-jab rub.


----------



## Peanuts

Thanks Agate - that makes sense.  I've not got enough needles to swap to inject - DrG only prescribed 14 syringes & needles along with the Gestone!  Was starting to wonder what happens if I'm lucky enough to get a BFP - have only got enough Gestone to last until OTD - do I just phone DrG when I get result and get him to send up a new prescription?  That might take a couple of days to get and then get them from pharmacy?

Sorry panicking already!
Dxx


----------



## agate

hmm... they usually do give you enough to have 2 needles for each day.

you do need to have enough to get you through to your bfp plus enough time to get your next px - although most ladies will dash to Dr G's for their drip asap on bfp - will you be doing that - if so presumably you could get your px and gestone then?

Is your OTD pretty conservative? Ideally you want a blood test arranged for 12-13 days post EC and if thats +, then another one 48 hours later and that gives you just a couple of extra days head start to start organising your drip and your Px.  If that doesn't work out with the drugs you've got, I guess you need to explain to akbil and ask her to send you another Px to tide you over - or else ask your GP for one.  When you get your BFP you'll need another Px to take you up to your first scan date (plus long enough to organise your next Px).  When you've got your scan pic - if you see your GP, she might let you have the subsequent Px on the NHS.

I'm just going to pm you about something.


----------



## Mousky

Peanuts - such great news! Hope you have lovely embryos on Monday     

Berry - your scan sounds great! I think it looks really good for you    

CLS - I'm waiting for Dr G's invoice so I can send it to my insurance but I'm a bit worried because it says "fertility" and they aren't willing to pay for that   I indeed think that getting an invoice from TDL would be better but I understood Dr G had a couple of tests with a better price? Btw, do you know what bugs should be tested on the HS/C&S SA? We're supposed to do it but only in 5 weeks...

Clare - how much?    I've had mine in BE and in the end we paid something like €100. I know it's expensive but I didn't think it was that bad   

Ladies, I've just checked some of my old tests and apparently I've had been screened for blood clotting tendencies (nothing as elaborated as I had we Dr G?) but I'm wondering if anyone has any info on APPT test. Mine was little bit too fast so I'm now speculating     what kind of results I might expect from my thrombophilia panel.

Also, I'd like to know from the ones who are feeding DPs vits, what do you recommend? DH used to be on C, E, Zinc and folic acid but he isn't taking anything at the moment. Even though the plan is going for FET we'd like to improve the quality of his swimmers. He has poor motility - often 0% fast progressive - and morphology is not that great either. 

Have a lovely weekend everyone!


----------



## Peanuts

Thanks Agate - and for PM.

I'll call Abkil on Monday and explain the situation and see if I can get a px to last me an extra week.  OTD is 14 days post EC and will need to persuade clinic to do another HCG 48 hours later!  They don't usually, but I'm hoping my history will help me persuade them!

I've got a px for another Intrlipids if get a BFP, so will be organising through [email protected] if need to.   

Sending you a big hug    
Dxx


----------



## agate

Mousky said:


> Ladies, I've just checked some of my old tests and apparently I've had been screened for blood clotting tendencies (nothing as elaborated as I had we Dr G?) but I'm wondering if anyone has any info on APPT test. Mine was little bit too fast so I'm now speculating   what kind of results I might expect from my thrombophilia panel.
> 
> Also, I'd like to know from the ones who are feeding DPs vits, what do you recommend? DH used to be on C, E, Zinc and folic acid but he isn't taking anything at the moment. Even though the plan is going for FET we'd like to improve the quality of his swimmers. He has poor motility - often 0% fast progressive - and morphology is not that great either.


The standard thrombophilia panel basically tests for actual clotting. The chicago thrombophilia tests that Dr G does on top are tests for genetic conditions that can cause clotting - so its possible to have normal results on one and positive results on the other (and vice versa). The standard panel is useful because it tells you whether your blood is actually sticky now (or has chemicals in it that are likely to cause stickness). The genetic tests are useful too because they tell you whether you have genetic tendencies to stickiness that may get switched on e.g., early in pg. Both types of thrombophilia (they are called acquired and inherited) can cause failed implantation and miscarriage so they are both worth testing for - and are both easily treatable.

If its a motility/morphology problem as opposed to a really low count, then it probably is worth your DH taking some supplements - because they have been shown to work for that. I'd be tempted to go with an off-the-shelf men's fertility multivit/mineral - we have stuff like wellman here which isn't too expensive and then add maybe add a couple of extra antioxidants e.g., lycopene (tomato extract) or pycnogenol (maritime pine bark extract) - there are others that might help - but I don't think its worth taking dozens of pills. Sperm take 3 months to make though, so you need to start them well ahead of time. The other thing that is supposed to help with sperm quality issues (but not quantity problems) is more frequent ejaculation.


----------



## Clarebaby

sarahh said:


> AFM, I enquired on Weds with Fedex and they pick up the same day if you phone before 3pm; there was me thinking gr8, get that one sorted tomorrow or Friday and (sorry for TMI) had a tiny bleed on Weds am then nothing and still no full flow! And typically having enquired today with Fedex, they don't pick up on weekends?  So if AF arrives over the weekend then do i take a sample and wait till Monday to send it off or will it be too old when it gets there?


Hi Sarah,

I think it will be fine, I collected my sample on Wednesday and Fedex picked up on Thursday but it isn't going to get to Athens until Monday. I think you would be really lucky to get it there without having any weekend delays and at least your sample can be stored in the fridge over the weekend until they collect, mine will be who knows where!. Came to conclusion that if it were so time critical they would say so on the instructions and they would have had to find another way of getting sample to testing more quickly!. Good luck.

Clare


----------



## agate

for testing C - the menstrual blood sample is supposed to be ok for about a week.  the lab do other tests on menstrual blood which needs a fresher sample but the C test can't actually distinguish between live and dead tissue - it just measures DNA - so its not important for it to be fresh.


----------



## Clarebaby

Mousky said:


> Clare - how much?   I've had mine in BE and in the end we paid something like €100. I know it's expensive but I didn't think it was that bad


Oh ok thanks, sorry but what is BE?


----------



## agate

Belgium?


----------



## Toffee Girl

Hello All

Just booking marking   

Toffee Girl x


----------



## Zeka

Hi Berry, the CM during stimms is quite normal and nothing to worry about. I've been told previously its due to the higher than normal hormone levels.
Zeka x


----------



## ells

Peanuts - great news on the 10 embies you must be really pleased with that.  When are you having ET?  
On the gestone, it helps to rub gently afterwards but I have also read a helpful tip which is to use a heat pad on the area afterwards or a very warm flannel to help it disperse.  I havent tried that yet, but i am finding it getting quite sore now and lumpy    so may have to get the little hand warmers on it to see if that will help.

Berry the jabs really arent that bad but the needles can be a little scary looking.  I dont usually feel the needle and gestone going in.

Agate I hope you are doing okay today    .

Hi to everyone else hope you are all okay    . 

Ells


----------



## ratsy

Hi berry 

This what my clinic told me to do the nuse said to put the gestrone down your bra for 15 mins to warm the liquid so it will be easier to inject 

She said get a chair put your one foot up on the chair and lean onto the chair for suport then inject the gestrone into the area on your    for example put your left leg up inject into left cheek as the nurse said its easier because your tightening your muscle by stretching it up 

Ive never had no probs i dont even feel it going in i found it easier doing it that way 

Hope this helps 

Ratsy    x


----------



## Toffee Girl

Hi All

Just a quick question for those of you who have actually cycled with Dr Gorgy himself - has anyone ever done a 'mild' IVF cycle as opposed to doing a conventional IVF with higher drug doses with Dr Gorgy?

After cycling 3 times with him in the last 12 months with immune support, I am going in for a discussion with him regarding doing a 'mild' cycle this time.  Last time he had me on 600 ius daily, and I have got to the point that as this is my 9th cycle, I feel I need to start thinking about the effect on my body, and on the viability of the eggs - if I am to continue cycling at all!

Any thoughts anyone?

Love and luck to all   

Toffee Girl xx  
(PS Just in case some of you have been wondering where I have disappeared to recently, I have taken a break from posting on this thread as I have been doing the treatment for latent chlamydia which I was diagnosed for back in March via Penny at Serum.)


----------



## Peanuts

Hi girls

Thanks for the tips about gestone inj - have it in my bra to warm up as I type!!  

Will let you know how it goes tom

Big hugs
Dxx


----------



## Peanuts

Hi girls

Jsus to let you know that I'm now PUPO with 2 grade 2 embies, with 4 for the freezer for a back up plan (as this is our last fresh cycle).  Now the waiting begins - knicker checking to start in about a week!!  

Thanks for all your support through my cycle so far, has been such a help on my ups and downs
Sending you all big hugs    
Dxx


----------



## ells

Great news Peanuts, keep thinking those positive thoughts hunni       

Ells


----------



## 3babies

Congrats Peanuts  on being PUPO with your precious cargo on board 
Now the waiting begins & wishing you both the very best for a positive outcome 

You go girl 

2babies x


----------



## Bling1975

Thats great Peanuts. It is always nice to get some extra as it thakes some of the preassure of. Good luck!

How is the ash situation in England at the moment? We are flying out tomorrow night and have an appointment with Dr G and our retesting för LAD and TNF-a. I am so nervous that our blood will be late to chicago as I will start stimming next week and need the results. If we miss that slot now there will not be another try until september as the clinic will close in july and august and then I am afraid that my LIT and Humira will be a bit old and a lot of money down the drain.


----------



## berry55

OMG girls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EC is now thursday for me!!! triggering tomorrow night at 7!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH its all going now!! i feel v v v nervous lol


----------



## Zeka

Congrats Peanuts on being pupo. Time to relax a bit..yeah, as if!? Hope you can keep your sanity during the 2ww. Sending big hugs!

Berry, fab news you're triggering! Will be thinking of you on Thurs. 

Hello all you other luffly ladies too!!
Zeka x


----------



## fi7

bookmarking 

big hugs to all

fi


----------



## Pigloo

Peanut - congrats on being PUPO   

Berry - exciting stuff, hope triggers goes well   

Pigloo


----------



## Mousky

Peanuts and Berry -


----------



## CLS

Hi All,

A quick question about test result turnaround time.....

For those of you who have had LAD and TNFa re-tests done via Dr. G / TDL, what's the average time its taken to get your test results back (ie) number of days from blood being drawn to when you get your results??

The quickest turnaround we've had to date is 6 days (ie. drawn on Monday, results on Saturday). 

We had ours yesterday and the nurse assured me it would go to USA that same afternoon. I'm hoping by some miracle we'll get them back by the end of this week so we will know whether or not we need to get back to Athens on 18th May for more LIT. My DH only is only back in town until 20th May and then flies back to Africa for another 4 weeks of work, so if we don't get the results back in time for 18th LIT, then we may need to fly him back in a few weeks just to do LIT which is not only a hassle but also very expensive!

Aaaah, the joys of the unknown!!

CLS


----------



## agate

CLS said:


> We had ours yesterday and the nurse assured me it would go to USA that same afternoon. I'm hoping by some miracle we'll get them back by the end of this week


Its critical that the bloods do go off to the US as soon as they are drawn because these tests need the blood cells to still be alive when they get to chicago. Bloods that are older than 48 hours when they arrrive, that arrive outside of working hours or that have either got hot or been refridgerated will probably end up being rejected as there won't be enough cells left alive. If you send bloods on a monday or tuesday, the results are very often back on friday night ready for saturday morning.


----------



## sarahh

Hi ladies just on train 2 London with my C sample & 2 hav tnf levels rechecked! Praying 4 a negative on the C front & my tnf levels hav dropped! U should hav seen me trying 2 get my sample 4 C tho!!! I hope they don't need much 2 do test, I only ever hav really light bleeds so haven't even got up 2 the 5 ml mark on the tube! Sorry 4 tmi everyone!! 

Well done on being PUPO peanuts & good luck Berry 4 ec on thurs. 

Sorry no more personals on iPhone & not v easy 2 type on this screen! 
Hugs 2 all (not sure where my smilies r!)

ells how did cons appt go? 
Sarah xx


----------



## Louiseb26

Hiya Sarahh

Might see you down there...also having my TNF levels checked today.I'm really hoping they are what they should be.What with all the stress with trying to get over to Athens...I'm not holding out for much.

Sending big   to everyone.

Lou xx


----------



## niccad

Peanuts - congrats on being PUPO!! 

Berry - good luck for EC on Thursday. Hope you get loads of lovely eggs

Sarahh & Louise -    for those TNF levels to come down. Mine reduced from 47 to 28 with 2 injections so      it works for you too (also good luck for the C test Sarahh)

Nic xx


----------



## Clarebaby

Hi All

Do you have to go back to Dr Gorgy and TDL to have your TNF's rechecked?  How much does it cost?

Good luck for those testing today.

Clare


----------



## sarahh

Clare tnf retest on it's own is £340. 
Lou - must hav missed u, on train back home now, bit of a rush 2 pick dd up frm pre-school @ 3pm! 
While I was there someone else was being handed the C test kit, with instruction sheet - I never got 1 of those, wd hav been helpful I must say! Not sure if I did it right   !!
Said something about bottle already having liquid in - not sure my bottle did?! Oh dear too late now! 

Catch up later x


----------



## ells

Hi Ladies,

Sarahh and Louise, hope your TNFa have come down. Hopefully it wont be long before your results come back.   

Berry good luck for EC - that really has come around so quickly.

Peanuts how are you doing hun? I really hope the 2ww maddness hasnt set in. Remember *YOU ARE PREGNANT THIS HAS WORKED .*

Agate how are you doing hun? I hope that you are doing okay with the non TTC stuff.  

Clare you dont have to go to TDl to have it done but you have to arrange couriers etc - I have never done that but some of the ladies on here have. I am going up tomorrow to get my NK's retested.

Niccard, how are you doing sweetie?

Hope everyone else is okay.

AFM feeling ok, saw the consultant yesterday - was expecting a scan but nope - nowt done! He just referred me to a whole load more doctors - blood doctor, someother doctor, risk doctor and someone else  still at least I know I am being looked after. We have our first NHS scan on 25th - I really  all is well. Its seems like ages since our last scan but its ony 2 weeks. The doctor did say that I would need to have appointments and scans every 4 weeks so thats something!

Hope everyone is okay and enjoying this slightly warmer weather!

Ells


----------



## niccad

Hi Ells - sounds like you're really being looked after which is great. I bet you were disappointed not to have a scan but at least they are on the ball.
I'm fine - thanks for asking - just getting used to the ARGC way of working which is like 'extreme ivf' as I'm there every day at 7:30am. All very intense but at least I know it's completely tailored to me. Early days in stimming for me and have 7 follicles which sounds rubbish, but for me is OK (i only had 4 last time)... Hoping that EC will be the end of next week... Getting hopeful    xxxx


----------



## berry55

Hi Girls,

Needing your advice... once again. I just got my retest results for TNFa and i have a consultaion with Dr G tomorrow at 3.30 but would really like to see what you all think. 
My TNFa has now come back at 35.4 ............. i know this is still high...... so what do u think is gonna happen. I am far too late for a IL now as my EC is thursday!!!! panic panic panic!!!!! stresssssssss!!!!! 

My TNFa was 57.6 and then went to 44.0 after 2 shots of humira and ater a futher 2 shots its now 35.5 so  i know its went down a lot... but just not enough!!  

help! 
Berry xxx


----------



## niccad

Hi Berry - were you already on prednisolone when you did the test? I think it's not too late for IL or IVIG as you have a bit of time before the embies will be going back... Good luck x


----------



## berry55

niccad- i started prednisolone the day after i had the blood taken.  So what do u think will happen?  If i had a IL when would that be.... my EC is  going to be thursday. I trigger tonight. We r hoping to put 1 blastocyst back in which should be around tuesday..... so what u think i'm so so annoyed about this.... i think its gonna ruine everything


----------



## niccad

Hi Berry - as this was before you started on the pred I think you'll be ok. Mine fell from 38 to 24 with pred, IL and IVIG (but I think it was mostly down to the pred). Dr G will know what to do, and 35 is a million times better than your original numbers xx


----------



## berry55

niccad- thanks hun    soooo pred can help with TNFa.... i never knew that. I'm really annoyed.... but you have helped me a tad lol xx


----------



## Bling1975

When should you start with pred and how long before ET do you need IL or Ivig?


----------



## agate

Berry: I agree with Niccad - pred can sometimes help bring TNFa down, and 35 is miles better than you started out with... its kind of what I guessed it would come down to... but do try and speak to Dr G - if he thinks you need it, he could fax you a Px for ILs to [email protected] and if they put a rush on it, you might get it on friday maybe.

Re the 1 blast: is that what Dr G also recommended rather than 2 - if you haven't asked his opinion, I would try and do so if you can - it may be that he thinks 1 is the way to go because of DQa matches - but its worth seeing what he thinks if you haven't asked him?

Bling: normally pred starts on day 5/6/7 of stimms with the aim of it being in your system for at least 7 days before ET. IVIG and ILs are normally given 7-14 days before planned ET.


----------



## berry55

agate- thanks hun    I will defo ask him about the 1 embryo or 2..... i will do whatever is the best. Is it safe to have  IL done after EC? Just b4 ET? I thought it was going to be far to late. hopfully this will all be ok... whats the chances that he will do nothing about this result? xxx


----------



## agate

yes its perfectly safe - but it doesn't have quite as long to work on stuff as if you'd had it earlier (but hopefully the humira and the pred are still working in the right direction anyway) - I am really undecided trying to 'mind read' him on what he will say... but if you forced me to say one way or the other I think he'd probably say to have an ILs rather than not. Have you asked him to call you -if you explain that its urgent, I'm sure he will try to call you back today?
If you do decide to have one, then [email protected] will probably say that they can't do it for friday, but often they have a way of fitting things in if you beg! The lady to speak to is Jade Herrington (and I think she starts work at 8am ish).


----------



## berry55

agate- aha ha- i know... i think u can mind read Dr Gorgy! lol How much does a IL cost? Spoke to Avikl- she said Dr G is in a meeting all afternoon and cant talk- didnt want to really push it as she always runs around after me like a headless chicken. Thanks for advice about [email protected].... hopfully i cant get a hold of them and beg them to help me- how much is a IL drip anyway? xxx


----------



## Bling1975

Thanks Agate, then I will have time to get my results in time to make a better decision regarding Ivig and Pred I hope. I will probably have my FET in 3-4 weeks depending if AF comes this weekend as planned.

My TNF-a was 31,4 before Humira and LIT and my NKs was normal. We have one DQ-a match (1.2) and very low LADs. Do you think I will need pred and Ivig (didn't respond to IL at all) even if my LAD and TNF-a looks good now?


----------



## agate

Berry: its £285.40 all in. maybe he can call you after his meeting?
but they have to get the Px from Akbil and then have to arrange to courier the ILs to the nurse and arrange for her to come to you to do it - so there is probably just time to get one for friday if akbil gets the px to Jade before lunch tomorrow (and you beg Jade)... but maybe I will have guessed wrong and he will say there is no need for you to have one (make sure you remind him of your DQa match when you do speak to him -I'm thinking that is probably the deciding factor... but I don't know).

Bling: I think you'd want pred (its cheap and might help)... not so sure about the drip - because of the match. when you say that you didn't respond to ILs - remember that the test is only a test tube test (doesn't tell you for sure how it will work in your body) and it only tests killing power - it doesn't, for example, tell you whether ILs works on anything else like TNFa or NK number for you.

...going for nap.


----------



## niccad

Agate (and everyone else) - quick question. I’m on a load of supplements and wondered if you thought I should be stopping any of them through stimming… I read a load of pages back you saying that zinc wasn’t so good?! What do you think? I’m on the following -  eskimo oils, tumeric, selenium, zinc, vitamin c, royal jelly, bee propolis, vitamin b complex, B6, coenzyme Q10, l-arginine, alpha lipoic acid 
I'd really appreciate your input...
x


----------



## agate

Niccad: aren't you on something like pregnacare to get a good base level for your Bs, iron and folic acid etc?  I THINK you should be - you need to be on 400 mcg folate for 3 months before you get pg.

then we need to add up the total of Zn and Se to whatever your basic vits contain and check if its ok.

Has your prolactin level always been ok (L arginine can increase prolactin, I think - which would not be helpful)?

I think the bee propolis might be an iffy one because of your TNFa issues.

if you are going on to clexane you'll want to keep your eskimo oils low-ish and try to take them at the other end of the day to your clex.

do you get enough sun (without sunscreen) or do you think you might want to be taking some vitamin D?


----------



## ratsy

Hi girls

Agate - im still in panic over BA dp phoned and they said we should know by thurs or fri but im thinking it might be to late to book another what do you think  hope your resting missy

Berry - If your going to pay for the ILS with [email protected] make sure you pay before 12 midday the day before you want it or they wont deliver the next day thats what jade told me 3weeks ago when i ordered my humira also goodluck for e/c

Peanuts - soz im late to congratulate you but my head in clouds with all this BA stuff , so  pupo you can do it lovely  am i forgiven 

niccad- hope you get some nice follies dont forget its quality not quantity

ells - looks like your bambinos are being well looked after youl be sick of docs by time you have them 

Hope everyone ive missed are ok and your all well

R x


----------



## Peanuts

Hi girls

Ratsy - of course you're forgiven hun! You've got so much on at the minute! Good luck with sorting out flights  

Ells - good luck for your scan on the 25th. My firneds jsut had twins - 4 weekly scans and then fortnightly after about 36 weeks! You'll have lots of lovely looks at bubba's before they arrive.  

Berry - I'll PM you the [email protected] details. Good luck for consult tomorrow 

Niccad - hope you're coping with the extreme IVF! I'm sure they're looking after you. Well done on your follies    

Sarah, Louise, Bling - good luck for retests    

Agate - hope you managed a wee nap this afternoon 

AFM - got my TNFa retest results back today too - have gone from 34.8 to 47.8!! Gutted! I couldn't have Humira due to TB indeterminate results, so have had 2 IL drips - first a week after 2nd LIT and 2nd on day 6 of stimms. Was on pred for about 5 days before retests too! Really panicking now!

I've got a phone consult with DrG tomorrow, so will see what he says. Can you have an IL drip during 2ww?

Any thoughts greatfully recieved! 
Take care
Dxx


----------



## sarahh

Peanuts - bummer about TNF levels.  I have latent TB and have had 14 wks of antibiotics but that is only to reduce the risk of the latent infection becoming active at some point in the future; but I have just taken 2 Humira with 1 Intralipids with the 2nd & my TB Consultant said he would be happy for me to have 2 more if the levels haven't dropped (although that is fairly obvious because if the levels haven't dropped then there isn't much concern about the TB being allowed to become active as TNF still v active ... if you get what I mean....!).  

You can have IL or IVIG during 2ww but I wonder whether Dr G will say that you should wait until OTD to find out if BFP & then have a drip straight away if it is.  

Ells - glad they are keeping an eye on you then    Are you at Princess Anne?  

Lou - hope the retest went ok, will be there with you praying that levels have gone down!! 

Must go & do some ironing!  

Hope everyone else is ok this eve. 
Sarah x


----------



## niccad

Agate.. Sorry.. I left out the obvious ones.. I'm on folic acid and pregnacare conception along with aspirin.
Thanks for the advice. I do loads of walking so think the vit D is ok, but having read the metro today I'm now worried about car fumes!! 
X

Peanuts. So sorry to hear about your tnf levels. I wonder what drG will suggest..? X


----------



## agate

Peanuts said:


> AFM - got my TNFa retest results back today too - have gone from 34.8 to 47.8!! Gutted! I couldn't have Humira due to TB indeterminate results, so have had 2 IL drips - first a week after 2nd LIT and 2nd on day 6 of stimms. Was on pred for about 5 days before retests too!


I couldn't have H either - so I had ILs and IVIG (plus pred)... and then have kept having them - but have never retested the TNFa.


----------



## nat4353

hello girls

ive been advised by pigloo to come and get some advice from you more experienced girls.

i have just had a chemical pregnancy      totally gutted 

We have decided that we are going to have one more fresh cycle but this will probably be our last attempt so we need to give it everything we have got.

I do know that chemicals are very common and after just having 1 i maybe dont really need to get things looked into but i dont want to look back after a possible 2ed one and wish i had iykwim

I have had 3 ectopics in the past due to knacked tubes and i am very luck that i have a daughter through our 1st ivf    but now long for a sibling.

pigloo has told me about the level one tests that gp should do which i shall get done she has mentioned the level 2 tests but said i should ask for advice from you guys as certain tests may and may not be worth getting.

any help or advice would be great 

thanks natalie xxxxx


----------



## CLS

agate said:


> CLS said:
> 
> 
> 
> We had ours yesterday and the nurse assured me it would go to USA that same afternoon. I'm hoping by some miracle we'll get them back by the end of this week
> 
> 
> 
> Its critical that the bloods do go off to the US as soon as they are drawn because these tests need the blood cells to still be alive when they get to chicago. Bloods that are older than 48 hours when they arrrive, that arrive outside of working hours or that have either got hot or been refridgerated will probably end up being rejected as there won't be enough cells left alive. If you send bloods on a monday or tuesday, the results are very often back on friday night ready for saturday morning.
Click to expand...

Thanks Agate, we've had the draw Monday / results Saturday timing before for LAD and TNF tests so I'm hoping it will be the same this week. It's also good to know there is precedence out there (other than our own previous results timing) for the 5-6 day turnaround, as Dr. G said it would be more like 10 - 14 days?!

CLS


----------



## agate

nat4353 said:


> hello girls
> 
> ive been advised by pigloo to come and get some advice from you more experienced girls.
> 
> i have just had a chemical pregnancy    totally gutted
> 
> We have decided that we are going to have one more fresh cycle but this will probably be our last attempt so we need to give it everything we have got.
> 
> I do know that chemicals are very common and after just having 1 i maybe dont really need to get things looked into but i dont want to look back after a possible 2ed one and wish i had iykwim
> 
> I have had 3 ectopics in the past due to knacked tubes and i am very luck that i have a daughter through our 1st ivf  but now long for a sibling.


well, there is nothing obvious from what you have mentioned that suggests you have any autoimmune conditions (that would tend to suggest you are more likely to have immune issues than the average lady).
the history of ectopics does mean you are much more likely to have a history of infection than average because ectopics, PID, hydrosalpinges etc are very often originally caused by damage from very common infections like chlamydia and gonorrhea, so if you did decide to see Dr G for your level 2 tests, I would GUESS that he would suggest you have tests to check whether any infection is still lurking in your uterus.
as its secondary infertility, there is the possibility that you are looking at, for example, immune sensitisation to a genetic match with your DH which was kicked off by your first successful pregnancy but there is no way to be sure whether your mc was immune related or whether it was, say, an embryo that wasn't quite good enough to make it.
Given what you've told us, if you did decide to have your level 2 tests done, I am GUESSING that Dr G would suggest you have your LAD and DQas run with your DH (to determine whether you have a genetic match with your DH) and to check how good your body is at recognising your husband's genes - that your embryos would carry), as well as the standard cytokine ratio and NK assay tests. Karyotyping would probably not be a high priority given that you have already had 1 successful pg together - so probably your GP wouldn't let you have that, and probably Dr G wouldn't see it as a high priority for you.

So basically, its a tricky decision - level 2 tests (and treatments) are expensive and there may be nothing wrong that can't be fixed just by a few more tries at IVF - bear in mind that the costs of tests and treatments could go quite a long way towards another non-immune IVF - and you and your partner do have age on your side... but alternatively the tests may uncover something that could be helped and MIGHT help you get pg on the IVF you have planned at the moment. I would definitely try and ask your GP to do the level 1 tests because they might reveal a simple clotting issue which could be treated cheaply with clexane, or might give some clues that you do need to go further and have the level 2 tests run to determine what is going on (e.g., positive ANA test).

good luck with whatever you decide to do.


----------



## bubbles09

Hi ladies

Congrats on being Pupo Donkey    

Berry good luck for ec tomorrow    

Im really confused and wondering whether any of you can help me.

I know that taking Royal Jelly can increase NK cells and I just want to make sure that the vitamins I take dont increase my nk assay.

I did a quick check online and according to what Ive looked at all the vitamins I am taking stimulate NK cells. Now Im not sure what to take. At the moment Im taking pregnacare COQ10 and Pycnogenol. Is there anything that I should be adding or taking away?

Also Ive been drinking lemon juice in hot water as I cant drink water on its own. Is this okay or can it raise the nk cells or do something that it shouldnt do.. Also are there any fruit or veg to avoied. Im so confused.

Be back for personals later.

Thanks ladies xxx


----------



## berry55

ok girls hard the call with Dr Gorgy.... and i am a little bit annoyed to be honest. 

He said that he told me that when i had my last humira injection i was to also have a IL.... but he never... i dont have a px for that! then he said he told me to phone him when i started stimming.... but he never. I'm sure i would have wrote that somewhere. 

He said that LAD reults r ok... if i get bfp i have to have booster LIT. 
He said that TNFa results r gd too.... but i need to have a IL drip asap... he said tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!! so i phoned [email protected] and begged jade and she said she cant as the timings etc... so she will do her best for friday. I am still waiting on her calling me back.... please god! please god!!! 
Also, Dr Gorgy told me not to have SET... he said it must be DET for me. I'm really confused.... i thought the whole 4.1 match thing was a bad thing..... Dr T told me that too.... but i'll stick with Dr G's words. He was very sure about it.  

Any advice any1??

xxxx


----------



## nat4353

thanks so much agate for all the info - i suppose i shall get level one tests done at gp first and see what that brings, 
gosh its all rather confusing isn't it. 

for the things you have suggested that  dr g may suggest for me do u have a rough idea of costs      xxxxx

thanks again 

ill let u know how i get on with these level one tests xxxxxx

nat


----------



## bbm09

hi all,

just a quick query - for any unfortunate with hidden C - did Dr G recommend a *semen culture and sensitivity test* for DH and a *swab* for yourself 5 weeks after the AB?

have I got the exact names of the tests right as I need to try and arrange this tomorrow for us both and want to have the names right....

And if they ask more, am I right in saying they are tests to look for presence of chlamydia, ureaplasma and mycoplasma in semen and in a swab of cervix?

Ta

BBM xx


----------



## agate

berry55 said:


> He said that he told me that when i had my last humira injection i was to also have a IL.... but he never... i dont have a px for that! then he said he told me to phone him when i started stimming.... but he never. I'm sure i would have wrote that somewhere.
> 
> He said that LAD reults r ok... if i get bfp i have to have booster LIT.
> He said that TNFa results r gd too.... but i need to have a IL drip asap... he said tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!! so i phoned [email protected] and begged jade and she said she cant as the timings etc... so she will do her best for friday. I am still waiting on her calling me back.... please god! please god!!!
> Also, Dr Gorgy told me not to have SET... he said it must be DET for me. I'm really confused.... i thought the whole 4.1 match thing was a bad thing..... Dr T told me that too.... but i'll stick with Dr G's words. He was very sure about it.


Berry: I can see why you are upset - my GUESS is that Dr G probably thought he would reconsider everything (inc drips) when you got your LAD and TNFa back, but he didn't bother to mention that to you and then those results got delayed But
a) you can't change it now and you have a big job to do at the moment keeping calm and rested to give this Tx the best chance
b) hopefully the ILs is not absolutely essential because you've already had the LIT, the H, the clex and pred and hopefully they are already working on making your lining a hospitable place
c) by the time you've done your EC tomorrow, doing ILs as well could have been tricky - and friday is really soon -so the odds of a single day making a difference don't seem very likely. I hope Jade has sorted it for you for friday.

Re the SET and DET thing - it just looks like its a really tricky thing to decide because:
a) only 50% of your embryos are likely to match you - so 50% shouldn't - and shouldn't be a problem
b) the odds of 2 embryos being put back and both being matched to you are not very high - so its really a question of the chances of putting back 1 matched embryo with 1 unmatched embryo - and not every embryo will be genetically good enough to even try to implant - so even if you do end up putting back 1 matched with 1 unmatched, then they might not both be good enough for the matched one to scupper the chances for the unmatched one - it all depends on how good your embryo quality is - and because you are young you expect it to be pretty good, but then again, you've had high TNFa - so maybe that will have brought the quality down somewhat.
c) if you didn't have the DQa matching issue, then obviously putting back only 1 would reduce your chances, maybe down to half - which is why, given your history, ignoring the DQa issue, almost all docs would say put back 2.
d) we are of course hoping that if there is a matching embryo good enough to implant then all the meds you are on are enough to stop your body overreacting to it.

So basically, I'm saying that it really isn't an easy decision - so I can see why different immune docs would give you different answers, because no-one can know for sure whether your embryos will match, whether they will both be good and how your immune system will react - so I don't think there is a single right answer - but I think you would not want to go for SET unless your embryologist on ET day can assure you that your embryos are 
a) good quality
b) definitely good enough for freezing
c) they use vitrification and have excellent defrost survival rates in your clinic

- otherwise if you go for SET, you aren't necessarily going to have much left to do a follow up FSET - which is the only way to get the same odds of a DET (for a non-matched lady).

If you get that assurance, then MAYBE there is a case of doing SET on ET day, but my guess is that if you don't, then it seems more obvious to do DET with the idea that you are basically putting back 2 embryos with the hope that 1 of them is a good one. You don't have to make that decision until ET day and you have spoken to the embryologist.

Do you want to post a question like this to Dr S on the SIRM forum - or do you think you would just get more stressed if you got a different opinion?
"I am hoping to have blastocyst transfer in X days time.
I have had Y ETs previously and have not got pregnant despite embryos that look to be good quality.
I am Z years old and I found out my TNFalpha ratio was very high and have had humira treatment prior to stimulation. I am also taking prednisolone 25mg.
My DQa is (a,b) and my husband's is (c, d).
My question is, given the DQa match, if the embryos are good quality again, should I have only 1 transferred, or should I have 2?"

But bear in mind that Dr S doesn't like to use aggressive treatments like humira - he sticks with ILs and steroids, seems to recommend SET, and if multiple SETs don't work, then he suggests surrogacy rather than aggressive Tx with humira.

Sorry, it doesn't seem like I am being much help - but do keep in mind your goal is not to fret about any of these issues. Your goal right now is to eat and drink healthily and keep your feet up and your blood pressure down - and if you can't face any more thinking on the FET/DET issue, then bare in mind its probably too close to call which is the right way to go - so whatever you do is probably just as good as the other option.


----------



## Pigloo

BBM - Yes Dr G suggested Dp have the semen culture and sensitivity test done for us but that was at our initial appointment we haven't got my results of hidden C back yet.

Nat - I see you found us   

Pigloo x


----------



## agate

bbm09 said:


> hi all,
> 
> just a quick query - for any unfortunate with hidden C - did Dr G recommend a *semen culture and sensitivity test* for DH and a *swab* for yourself 5 weeks after the AB?
> 
> have I got the exact names of the tests right as I need to try and arrange this tomorrow for us both and want to have the names right....
> 
> And if they ask more, am I right in saying they are tests to look for presence of chlamydia, ureaplasma and mycoplasma in semen and in a swab of cervix?
> 
> Ta
> 
> BBM xx


BBM - my understanding is that semen culture is just where they grow whatever they can from the semen sample - and try and identify it if something grows. the sensitivity bit is then to splodge it with various antibiotics and see if those bugs are effectively killed. So that does seem like the right name for the test, as far as I can gather - but surely your test provider would be able to explain what test they are offering?

I THINK there are different sorts of swab tests - there are pcr swab tests for chlamydia and gonorrhea, and HVS culture swabs for bacterial vaginosis, trichomonas and sometimes mycoplasma and ureaplasma (some labs won't test for C and G via the same type of swab - only by pcr). If bugs are identified, then some labs will do a sensitivity to antibiotics on the bugs cultured from swabs too - again, wouldn't whoever is doing the tests be able to help?



nat4353 said:


> for the things you have suggested that dr g may suggest for me do u have a rough idea of costs


there is a thread mainly about level 1 tests on the immunology section - so that's probably a better place to discuss those?

costs is a difficult question because it really does depend on which tests you need as costs can vary a huge amount.

some the infection screening costs are about £200 - but Dr G is looking into alternatives for that - and there are some that he will probably say you could ask your GP for, but I'm not sure.

I think the LAD is £200 but I can't remember how much the DQa tests are.
The cytokine ratio is something like £350 and so is the NK assay.

So the level 2 tests are unlikely to be less than £1000 and could be quite a lot more depending on what you need.

If he thinks you need something like hysteroscopy, he will probably suggest you try and get the NHS to do it as it will be pretty expensive.


----------



## Rose39

Hello ladies - I'm hoping I can pick your brains! I went to Dr G's today to hand in my hidden C sample so they could Fedex it off to Greece (I was in work meetings all day and didn't trust our receptionists with the package!). I learned that some of my Chicago tests had come back, and have been looking at the results. I'd love to get your views!

I was very surprised to see that my NK 50:1 ratio was normal at 10.2 - this is completely different to 10 months ago when it was 21%! Do your NK cells vary so much and does the 21% figure show that I still have high NK cells even though this round of tests came back with a lower result?

However although my 50:1 ratio was normal in these tests, my CD3 % came back high at 88.3% - what does this mean, as the other CD tests came back within the normal % range. I'm a bit confused!

I did learn that my TH1:TH2 ratios were not good - my TNF-a:IL-10 (CD3+CD4+) was 34.2 which is higher than it should be, and my IFN-g:IL-10 (CD3+CD4+) came in at 1.4 - I have no idea what this second ratio is for and what this result means? (I couldn't see any recommended numbers in Dr Beer's book). Can anyone help please? 

In previous cycles I've been on prednisolone (25mg) and heparin - do you think this is likely to change? I do have a concern that I have some kind of immune reaction to gestone (I get a rash for a couple of days when I start taking it) in spite of taking the prednisolone and I'm seriously wondering whether it's this immune flare-up that is contributing to my cycle not working?

Any views/ advice would be much appreciated!

Rose xx


----------



## bbm09

Agate, I havent looked into where I could get this done? I wanted to make sure I had the right name. I doubt its something that my GP could do - would I have to go to a Wellwoman clinic or the like and is there an equivalent clinic for men who would do this? I am in Ireland so I need to get asking. Thanks for your help. 

Also I read the DQ alpha thing with interest. Single vs double embryo transfer as we will have this issue too. I am hoping the 2 x 100ml IL and all the other immune treatment we will be getting would override the double embryo transfer issue, but I dont know enough about it really. I know I would like a double embryo transfer given my age. I know any clinic I go to would recommend DET also as they dont pay much heed to DQ alpha, or maybe ARGC do pay attention to the DQ alpha issue and not to the LIT as treatment for this? I am not sure.

Also I cant log onto the Dr S website - it keeps saying I have keyed in the wrong code which I havent .... does anyone know if there is a problem with this site? I have tried to create an account for months now. 

BBMx


----------



## berry55

agate- thanks for your reply    really appreciate it. I dont know what to think anymore. I kind of feel like a have lost this battle.... but i know i should think like that. I spoke to Jade this afternoon and she said she was trying to get me the Drip for Friday.... so she will phone me tomorrow (however i have EC tomorrow- so DH will need to take the call) so fingers crossed i can get the drip for friday. If i cant get it on friday it will need to be monday- do u think thats too late?? Now as i am having DET my et will prob be sat or sun. xxxx


----------



## agate

Rose39 said:


> I was very surprised to see that my NK 50:1 ratio was normal at 10.2 - this is completely different to 10 months ago when it was 21%! Do your NK cells vary so much and does the 21% figure show that I still have high NK cells even though this round of tests came back with a lower result?
> 
> However although my 50:1 ratio was normal in these tests, my CD3 % came back high at 88.3% - what does this mean, as the other CD tests came back within the normal % range. I'm a bit confused!
> 
> I did learn that my TH1:TH2 ratios were not good - my TNF-a:IL-10 (CD3+CD4+) was 34.2 which is higher than it should be, and my IFN-g:IL-10 (CD3+CD4+) came in at 1.4 - I have no idea what this second ratio is for and what this result means? (I couldn't see any recommended numbers in Dr Beer's book). Can anyone help please?
> 
> In previous cycles I've been on prednisolone (25mg) and heparin - do you think this is likely to change? I do have a concern that I have some kind of immune reaction to gestone (I get a rash for a couple of days when I start taking it) in spite of taking the prednisolone and I'm seriously wondering whether it's this immune flare-up that is contributing to my cycle not working?


NKs will go up and down all the time due to e.g., failed pg, fighting off bugs etc. Some docs would say that if you have had 1 abnormal test, its more likely than not that your NKs are overactive from time to time.

CD3 is total T cells - so if its elevated its an indicator that there may be some autoimmune activity - but it doesn't tell you anything more specific than that.

Your TNFa ratio is a bit high, but not very high - Dr G will probably recommend 2 shots of humira 2 weeks apart before Tx. The other ratio is another TH1 (pro-inflammatory) to TH2 (anti-inflammatory) cytokine ratio, but it isn't supposed to be as important for fertility.

I would GUESS that Dr G will put you on 25mg pred (because of your previous NK test and your CD3) - I think he is more likely than not to put you on clexane if he suspects NK problems - but it will depend on the rest of your results e.g., when your inherited thrombophilia results come back (assuming you had those run) - and also why you were on clexane in the first place.

You can ask Dr G about the gestone - its normally possible to take extra pessaries instead and then get your blood prog levels measured to make sure they are ok.



bbm09 said:


> Agate, I havent looked into where I could get this done? I wanted to make sure I had the right name. I doubt its something that my GP could do - would I have to go to a Wellwoman clinic or the like and is there an equivalent clinic for men who would do this? I am in Ireland so I need to get asking. Thanks for your help.
> 
> Also I read the DQ alpha thing with interest. Single vs double embryo transfer as we will have this issue too. I am hoping the 2 x 100ml IL and all the other immune treatment we will be getting would override the double embryo transfer issue, but I dont know enough about it really. I know I would like a double embryo transfer given my age. I know any clinic I go to would recommend DET also as they dont pay much heed to DQ alpha, or maybe ARGC do pay attention to the DQ alpha issue and not to the LIT as treatment for this? I am not sure.
> 
> Also I cant log onto the Dr S website - it keeps saying I have keyed in the wrong code which I havent .... does anyone know if there is a problem with this site? I have tried to create an account for months now.
> 
> BBMx


can you get in on this link or do you mean it won't let you create an account?
http://forums.haveababy.com/

do you want to send me your Q and I'll post it for you?

I am not absolutely sure about where to get the tests done - I believe you could get them through your GP here (they will definitely do swabs and send them off - I think for semen, they'd have to refer you to the local hospital, but again, I'm not sure), and maybe through an STI/GUM clinic, but also from a private lab like TDL.

Regarding DET/SET with DQa matches - I THINK that the older you get, the less likely you are to end up putting back 1 matched and 1 unmatched that are both viable - because if only, say, 20% of your eggs are genetically normal, then the odds that 2 embryos will both be genetically good enough to implant must be a lot lower than 100% (will be higher than 20% because some of the genetically duff ones will fail to fertilise/fail to divide etc and be weeded out during embryology).

*Berry* - I don't understand why does switching from SET to DET mean you have to change from a day 5 blast transfer to a day 2 or day 3? If your clinic think your embryos are good enough/many enough to go for blast why would that change just because you decide to have 2 put back instead of 1. Giving your history of failed Tx I can't believe they would be saying that they have to restrict you to only 1 blast? Doing day 5 on tuesday would give the ILs that bit longer to work on you? When you asked Dr G about DET vs SET did he understand that (for some reason?) your clinic would stop you doing blast?

[email protected] will often do a saturday am drip if needed.

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## berry55

agate- my clinic will defo refuse to transfer 2 blasts.... they wont do it for anybody unless you are over 40 years old. Dr Gorgy didnt mention Blasts to me at all. I just asked about SET and DET. 

I am really worried, for the past 30 mins i have been getting really REALLY sharp pains in my ovary area.... really sore! do u think thats normal? xx


----------



## agate

well, then I don't think you were asking him the whole question - if you didn't didn't tell him that by doing DET you were giving up the chance of having a blast transfer then he didn't have all the facts?  Can you ask your DH to check with Dr G in the morning, just to make sure that he understands you only have the option of DET 2/3 day or SET blast (and bearing in mind that blast would give you a bit of extra time for the ILs)?  I am maybe fussing about nothing, but if it was me, I'd like to make sure that Dr G had the right question?  Hopefully he will say that it doesn't change his advice, but I would feel better if you double checked.

I think your clinic are being pretty mean in the circumstances.  I don't understand their attitude - it only makes sense to me for ladies who are having their 1st Tx - not for people with prev failed cycles.  If you had a strong recommendation one way or the other from Dr G do you think they would be more flexible with you?

It is normal to have ovary pain and also sorts of other pains when you are at this stage of stimms - everything is sore and bloated - but if you are worried you should ring your clinic's emergency number to be on the safe side (and if you have trouble breathing or get a temperature, or can't pee - then you MUST ring them).


----------



## berry55

agate- its prob a normal pain then... i cant stop peeing lol I think what i will do is call Dr Gorgy tomorrow when i find out when i am having the IL drip and then i will ask him if i should have 1 day 5 Blast transferd or 2 day 2/3. What would u pick? xx


----------



## ratsy

Berry lovely i really hope you get it sorted out    I think your clinic are mean not letting you have 2 blasts put back 

R x


----------



## agate

I'd want to find out what Dr G thinks about the extra couple of days for the ILs to work, then want to talk to the embryologist on day 2/3 before the decision is made to decide what he thinks about the embryo quality (what for example is the risk that the embryos are not good enough/many enough to get to blast), bearing in mind how they look and how they did last time.  If the embryologist thinks the embryos are fantastic and Dr G thinks the extra couple of days for the ILs is important, then that might swing me over to going for SET blast, but if the embryos aren't so good and Dr G thinks the extra days don't matter, then I'd probably think 3 day DET... but I wouldn't want to decide anything until the embryologist told me what he thought... he ought to have the best idea on the success rates for his clinic's blast culture vs 3 day culture... because it does vary from lab to lab as some labs are a lot better than others at growing blasts.... sorry if I am putting doubts in your head at the last minute, but I'd rather you got all the info from Dr G first rather than find out he would have told you something different if he had known a bit more.


----------



## berry55

agate- i really appreciate your help hun. I think what i will do is i will talk to my clinic tomorrow and ask them if we can leave it open until i kind of know what the embryos r looking like.... then tomorrow i will call Dr Gorgy and ask him again in detail (and by then i should know when i am having the IL drip) gosh... i'm not gonna sleep tonight for thinking about this.... and my dh just is acting all normal and i feel like this is a do or die decision!!! aragghhhhhh!!!!


----------



## agate

its not a do or die decision though - its just a dilemma and we have them all through Tx!  You've got a plan for tommorrow and its a good one - you are just making absolutely sure and being a prudent person... its not like you are making a huge decision like Tx or no Tx... just whether to choose this 'flavour' transfer or that one.

Can you write down your plan and then put it all aside til tomorrow and get a good night's sleep?


----------



## berry55

agate- i cant egt things out my head unless i have them totally sorted. I just hope i can talk my clinic into what ever Dr G thinks is best. My clinic r still very very against me as i am 23 years old.... even though they know my tract record... its age discrimination!!! lol


----------



## Desi

Good evening Ladies,

Maybe a strange question, but it has been on my mind for a while now and hope somebody knows.
Are the chances on a "bad/unhealthy" embryo implanting higher with all the immune treatments, instead of the body rejecting it? Or does this not play a role as a bad/unhealthy embryo will be rejected no matter what?

Night, night.
Desi.
Xxx


----------



## agate

Desi said:


> Good evening Ladies,
> 
> Maybe a strange question, but it has been on my mind for a while now and hope somebody knows.
> Are the chances on a "bad/unhealthy" embryo implanting higher with all the immune treatments, instead of the body rejecting it? Or does this not play a role as a bad/unhealthy embryo will be rejected no matter what?
> 
> Night, night.
> Desi.
> Xxx


according to Dr B - no - see page 117 of his book - the theory is that if there is a serious genetic issue, the embryo will be just as likely to fail with immune Tx as without - all that the immune Tx does is put you back onto a level playing field with someone who doesn't have immune issues - if you think about attack by NKs for example, NKs are trying to kill off embryonic tissue indiscriminantly - not because the embryo is genetically poorer quality.

bear in mind SOME studies show that all common fertility Tx (esp IVF and ICSI) MIGHT be associated with babies being statistically a little less healthy than 'natural' babies (FET seems to be an exception because FET embryos that survive the defrost and implant are likely to be very tough)- but that's thought to be mainly because the parents who need fertility Tx are statistically less likely to be as genetically healthy for fertility compared to parents who can get pg naturally, but the statistical difference is small, and its not many of us who would be prepared to give up the chance to have a baby for such a small increased risk.


----------



## Desi

Thanks Agate, reading your reply I realise I read this last year as well when I read the book, but it got somehow lost in my grey cells   

I just started to read the book again, it is different if you read it again with the knowledge you have got now and with the test results next to it.

I know I am just 1 example, but to put people's mind at ease maybe, our DD is almost 4 now and conceived via IVF.
She has not been ill 1 day, I know we are very lucky, touch wood.

Agate, take good care of your precious "load", am really happy for you!

Xxx


----------



## berry55

That's me just about to go in for ec.......... So nervous!!!!!!! Xxxxx


----------



## niccad

Good luck Berry

Quick question as I'm on my phone. Was supposed to have ivig this am at argc. They stopped just as they were about to start as I mentioned I'd had an allergic reaction last time. Not great but I understand. Should I have intralipids do you think instead. Results from monday are overall NK at 19, cd 56 at 14... Help! Not sure what to do. Starting on dexamethasone today which will help... 

Nic xx


----------



## agate

Niccad - I think if I were you and couldn't have IVIG then I would drop into Dr G and ask for ILs (so long as you are not allergic to nuts, eggs or soya or have uncontrolled diabetes) given that your NKa is still high.  I can't think of any reason not to have it.


----------



## niccad

Thanks agate.. I'm seeing him 11. Had intralipids with him a few times before so know I don't react. Just worried it will have no impact on the mean old 56...


----------



## berry55

Hi girls- just on wayhome. We got 13 eggs, that's the most ive ever had. Spoke to embryologist about set and det and she said I've to take it a day at a time. All options r open, so relived. Also got il drip sorted for tomorrow, thank u god!!!!! 


Agate- thank u so much for ur help lastnight, ur such a star!!! Xxxxx


----------



## agate

excellent berry!  well done you!  

so now you set to drinking water (diluted down pomegranite juice?) and getting lots of protein (was it you who said you didn't like milk?) to get everything flushed out ready for your ET - are you starting your gestone today?
are you still going to speak to Dr G about blast/day 3/SET/DET etc?


----------



## berry55

Yeah, I don't like milk.... It makes me just boke at the thought of it.yes I start gestone today- what time u think is best? I thought about 9pm. Also I start again on clexane-but 40mg now. I had a lot of  bleeding in ec today- that's never happened to me b4. I'm going to phone dr gorgy about the set/det blast stuff. Also need to tell him I'm getting il tomorrow. About the gestone- the nurse gave me a smaller needle, she said I'm too wee for the big 1. She also said I can inject gestone into my thigh if I do it myself sometimes- what u think about that? Xxxx


----------



## bubbles09

Hi ladies 

Berry - Well done on getting 13 eggies hun. Im so happy for you    

Agate - Hope things are going well with you and bump. Just a quick question. I diluted pommegranite juice better to have in water rather than a drop of lemon juice. Also, I read on one of the threads that you took pycnogenol.. How much did you take a day? Is there anything else other than that, pregnacare and coq10 that I should be taking. I think this prostap is sending me crazy and making me worry about everything.. lol xx

I hope everyone else is ok.

Love bubbles09


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## agate

berry: I had a lot more bleeding in my 2nd EC than in others - I sort of wondered whether it just depended on what the doc hit when they put the needle in to grab the eggs, but I don't know.

bubbles: pomegranite juice is supposed to be helpful for high TNFa (along with green tea - but then you have to think about not having too much tea because of the caffeine - and decaff tea is likely to be full of nasties because of the chemical processing they have to use to get the caffeine out of tea - so when I want a hot drink I tend to go for redbush tea with milk) but as with all fruit juices, personally, I think they are better diluted so as not to spike your blood sugar so much.  I do add lemon juice sometimes either to water or to pomegranite juice, - but that's just to vary the flavour - other than maybe making it slightly easier on your stomach (and I guess a splash of vit C), I don't think the lemon juice adds any benefit. 

I also took tumeric tablets because that's supposed to be good for TNFa.  I had either pregnacare or Tommy's (same thing).  I did take pycnogenol and resveratrol as well as lycopene (all antioxidants), but I would probably say to be more cautious with the first 2 because whereas lycopene is something you probably eat all the time (in tomatoes), pycnogenol and resveratrol are not.  So I wouldn't want to take pycnogenol, resveratrol past EC and I wouldn't think its necessarily safe to take CoQ10 past ET (none of these supplements have been properly safety tested for pg).  I'd be more relaxed about tumeric and lycopene because they are something that millions of people eat all the time in food.  As to doses, I stuck to minimal doses of pycnogenol (40mg)and resveratrol (50mg) and 500mg curcumin (tumeric). 

I took eskimo oil (omega 3 oil) but only at the lower end of the recommended dose because I worry about too much blood thinning being on clexane.

When you look at what supplements are supposed to be immunomodulatory (balancing) and which are supposed to increase immune function, I think you have to bear in mind that where there are any proper studies (and many of the studies published are not really proper clinical trials - sample sizes too small, doses much higher than normally recommended etc), and that when they look at immune activity they tend to be studying patient groups who are immunosuppressed e.g., cancer/aids/geriatric patients.  So even if they show that some supplements elevate, say NKa, it does not necessarily tell you whether they would do that in someone who already has normal/elevated NKa, or whether they are just bringing it back to normal for the immunosuppressed.  For example, ILs has been shown to reduce NKa in people whose levels are elevated, but for severely immunosuppressed patients, it brings NKa back up.


----------



## bubbles09

Thanks a million Agate xx


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## berry55

agate- sorry to be a pain.. but my qn about the gestone... what do i do? lol Dr AGATE! lol xxxx


----------



## ells

Berry thats  a really great number of eggs!  You must be really pleased.  Well done on getting the IL's sorted out and getting the clinic to give you the chioce on DET or SET. If it helps I take my prog support at 9am and 9pm.

Ells


----------



## berry55

ells- thanks hun. Ur prog support as in gestone and pesserys? I have been givin crinone gel to use. I was told to start this on day 3 post EC and gestone 2 start today.  should i always do them at diff times? xx


----------



## ells

Hi Berry yes I am on gestone in the morning - only because my DH didnt want to do it for me all the time as he is scared that he hurts me - bless - so the nurse at my GP surgery does it and then I do the cyclogest pessary in the evening.  I have always been told to do them 12 hours apart.  I believe its to keep your prog levels constant.

Ells


----------



## agate

Berry - any time of day for gestone is fine (assuming you are doing 1 shot per day)- just pick a time you can stick to and maybe set an alarm so that you never forget to do it.
yes... some ladies do put it in their thigh (but I think its supposed to be a bit more pain sensitive there)... there is a video by kara - I think its on the ivf wales section (a link to youtube) which shows how to do the jab in your bum yourself... never tried it personally though. If you search for kara's jabbing vids I think you'll find it.

If you are doing more than 1 shot or more than 1 type of progesterone - spread them out as evenly as you can during the day.  So if its 1 gel/pessaries and 1 jab - try to do them 12 hours apart and if its 2 pessaries and 1 jab - try to spread them out 8 hours apart ish (but don't make it so you can't have a night's sleep) - and try and stick to the same timetable every day so that your blood levels of prog stay level.


----------



## berry55

ahhhh ok... thanks for the tips.... ok so i will do gestone at about 9pm at night. And then i will do the crinone gel at about 9am in the morning (starting from day 3 post EC) also, clexane.... when do i start that again? tomorrow? xx


----------



## agate

berry: clexane tomorrow morning - but only if you are not bleeding anymore - otherwise, you have to phone Dr G and check.


----------



## Pigloo

Hi girls

I am due to get my level 2 results back from Dr G tomorrow.  

We have our appointment with the NHS clinic on 7th June and they will prob give us a tx plan to start a couple of weeks after that.  

I'm just thinking is this too early to get in any drugs that Dr G will prescribe and if so we may have to put off our tx for a while. 

Can anyone advise on timescales for taking the drugs Dr G prescribes before starting tx or do they start whilst undergoing tx.  I have read the previous posts on Humira and taking it 5 months before?!  Whats the latest you can start with that?

I am almost certain he will want to give me something like Humira/IVIG/ILs as I have high thyroid antibodies which makes me thing i'm bound to have high NKs.

Berry - Congrats on your fab number of eggs and getting sorted with the SET/DET situation.

Thanks ladies

Pigloo xx


----------



## agate

it really does depend on what your results show.

if you have been tested for infections and anything is discovered then you would need a course of antibiotics and might then need to wait for up to 2 AFs before you can retest.

if you need LIT then its normally given as 2 shots 4 weeks apart - and then you either decide to wait approx 4 weeks and retest LAD before deciding what to do - or you cycle then and retest your LAD and if necessary have a LIT booster asap in early pg.

if you do need humira then it really does depend on what you are having it for and hwo high your levels are.  Most ladies have 2 shots of H 2weeks apart (not in the same week as LIT), and then either start their stims sometime around 2 weeks later, or wait 2-3 weeks after the 2nd shot and then retest their TNFa.  But if you have very high TNFa, it can take up to 3 rounds of 2 shots with retests before you get the levels low enough to cycle - so it really does depend on what your results show.

If you want an idea before tomorrow, then you can ask Akbil to fax you a copy of your results now so you can look at them before you see Dr G.

If you are doing LP, then you can sometimes still be doing your LIT and H during down reg if it works out that way.

Other Txs (steroids, clexane, ILs, IVIG) don't start until during stims and gestone doesn't start until after EC.


----------



## Pigloo

Hi Agate

We do not have an appointment with Dr G tomnorrow i was just told to ring tomorrow for results and then they will either fax or post them to me.  Does Dr G usually like to see you again in person after tests as we live Near Newcastle?

Are any of these txs given for partners DNA compatiability as we are using Donor sperm so won't need anything along those lines

Thanks for your very helpful advice (once again)  I am sure i will be back on here with my results asking for interpretation as soon as i have them.

Hope you and bubs are well 

Pigloo xx


----------



## agate

ah ok... no you can normally do most appts by phone - I just assumed you were getting your results when you went to see him.

if its donor sperm, I assume you won't have had the LAD or be considering LIT - so you can strike out that timescale.  So the things that would take up time before your cycle would be if you needed any antibiotics for infections or if you need humira - but humira might be as little as 2 shots 2 weeks apart about 2 weeks before you start stimms (although you'd need a TB screening test before you can take humira - to make sure you haven't got latent TB - but I'd expect there would be somewhere you could get that done locally - if you even need humira, that is.)


----------



## berry55

Agate- ok thanks hun... i'm now in the zone for all of this lol Its seams like the bleeding has almost stopped... just a little bit now. I got call from clinic they said out of the 13 eggs 12 were suitable fro injection.... so i guess thats good. I always feel bad for that little 1 egg that wasnt gd enough... poor wee egg  I spoke to the embryoligist about what Dr G told me on the phone and she said its fine and we have to take each day as it comes but i can do whatever i like at the end of the day. However, they have never ever done double blast transfer.... so they r very worried about twin rate... but i think i just need to ignore these concerns and foucus on what Dr G told me. Do  u think i'm right to think like this? xxxxx


----------



## agate

Berry: if it was me, I'd go with the 2 x blasts - if you get told the embryos are good enough on day 3 to risk leaving longer, and so long as you feel you could cope with twins if you had them (bear in mind that even if you have only 1 put back, its still possible to end up with twins, although its a LOT less likely than the chance of 2 blasts giving you twins)... if you hadn't had 3 failed IVFs already and hadn't had such high TNFa, I'm sure I'd be saying go with one because of your age, but you have and what we all want for you is to maximise your chance of having at least one baby here... but I guess you have to talk to DH and decide what you really feel about the twinning risk... lets say that if it works, then you might have say a 40% chance of twins (I am totally guessing!)... and lets say, that, your odds of it working with 2 x blast are... don't know... say 40%.  So, with my dodgy maths that would give you, say a 20% chance of twins and a 20% chance of a singleton, but if you drop down 1 you might be cutting your chance of having a baby in this Tx down to 20%... but if you really do not want to risk having twins, provided your clinic can assure you that your FET chances are excellent (based on the blast quality and their blast defrost rates) then you could get back to roughly the same odds by having a blast FET later.


----------



## deegirl

Hi girls...hugs to all!


----------



## Peanuts

Hi girls

Berry - snap!! i had 13 eggs and 12 injected!!  This is getting freaky lol     Good luck for lovely embies tom and making a SET/DET decision    

I had phone consult with DrG yesterday as well - he's recommended booster LIT on BFP, and Intralipids/IVIG to try to sort out TNFa's.  Really don't like the idea of (and the cost of) IVIG - sounds very scary.  But if I really need it I might just do it.  WIll DrG do retests after IVIG or just keep doing them?  Would it be month about for IL/IVIG?

No symptoms yet, but trying to keep positive!

Big hugs to everyone   
Dxx


----------



## berry55

hi girls, i just did my 1st gestone injection and i used a smaller needle as the nurses at my clinic told me that you can use this one... i dont know if i did the right thing as a lot of the gestone  came flowing out of the injection site after the injection was finnished. Is that normal?


----------



## sarahh

Berry - depends on how much "lots" is - when I did my injections then a little bit usually came back out but I wouldn't describe it as lots, how quickly did you push it in - it is best to warm it up beforehand and to press the plunger quite slowly, hope that helps.  Don't worry tho, i'm sure enough will have got in to your system. 

Well done on the 13 eggs.  

Hi to everyone else   

Sarah xx


----------



## agate

Peanuts said:


> I had phone consult with DrG yesterday as well - he's recommended booster LIT on BFP, and Intralipids/IVIG to try to sort out TNFa's. Really don't like the idea of (and the cost of) IVIG - sounds very scary. But if I really need it I might just do it. WIll DrG do retests after IVIG or just keep doing them? Would it be month about for IL/IVIG?


He normally gives 1 drip on bfp and then another drip on 1st scan (about 6.5 weeks pg), then you wait 7-10 days and retest and decide what to do when the results come back.


----------



## Pigloo

Agate - what would we do without you honey, thanks so much for the advice   

Pigloo x


----------



## Bling1975

I am back home from London and I believe our tests went to the US without any interference from the dreaded ash cloud.

But I am a bit disappointed with our meeting with dr G. He seam very confused and he didn't remember anything about our history. And when I made the appointment I sent him some information about that I had taken the Humira with a prescription from a swedish doctor and that I had sorted my C-test in Athens and it was negative. He didn't know this at all and started to tell me about this new test that I should take.

He didn't want to answer any questions about further treatment before the test results come back, but he said it was ten days for the LAD and then I will already have started stimming. I will have injections for two weeks before my FET, then wait for 5 days as it is a blast. It just makes me really stressed and that was the reason I wanted to see him before to get a feel of all my options. Now I don't even know when/if I should start with clexane and prednisolon or what dose he recommends.

What dose and when to start with clexane if you do not have any clotting issues on the tests?


----------



## berry55

morning girls- got my IL drip this afternoon- what is it like? it is sore?  xx


----------



## Cath34

Berry dont worry- its nothing to worry about, no side effects. I didnt feel any different at all. Good Luck


----------



## berry55

I just got my fertalisation call.... i'm so upset! Out of the 12 eggs that were injected only 4 are good! That is our worst fertalisation rate EVER!!!! i dont feel very gd about this cycle now. I dont even think we r going to make it to blasts now.... the clinic want 2 go for day 2 transfers... i'm so so soooooooooooooooooo upset.


----------



## DND

Hi, I have just recieved teh result about my biopsy and as usually I need help to understand it.

Here is the answer:

*Final phatologic diagnosis*
Endometrial biopsy showing:
1. Mild secretory endometrium POD 7-8
2. 4-5 CD57+ cells identified/high power field
3. 3-5 FoxP3+ cells identified/high power field
4. No evidance of inflammatoru change seen
5. No evidence of necrosis
6. No evidance of hyperplasia or atypia

COMMENT: CD57 cells are encreased while Fox p3+ cells are appear adequate. While there appears to be adequate stromal regulatory activity there is also anincrease in CD57 + cell suggesting an inflammatory component. Positive and negative control sections have been evaluated demonstrating appropiate tissue reactivity with the CD 57 monoclonal antibody.


----------



## Pigloo

Hi

Agate if you around I would really appreciate it if you could interpret my results (my own interpretation is that they seem ok apart from CD56 and CD19+cellsCD5 which are over the limits??)

I have to phone Dr Gorgy today at 1:30pm.

NK Assay (% Killed) Panel

50:1 - Result 21.5  (limits 10 - 40)
25:1 - Result 11.9 (limits 5 - 30)
12,5:1 Result 3.5  (limits 3 - 20)
IgG conc 12.5 50:1** Result 11.7
IgG conc 12.5 25:1**Result 8.4
IgG conc 6.25 50.1**Result 12.4
IgG conc 6.25 25:1** Result 10.6

%CD3 - Result 64.0 (limits 60 - 85)
%CD19 - Result 6.2 (limits 2 - 12)
%CD56 - Result 26.0 (limits 2 -12)
% of CD+19 cells,CD5+ Result 21.0 (limits 5 - 10)

Notes ** > 10% reduction in killing at each effect/target ratio.

NK assay w/intralipid
50:1 w/intralipid 1.5 mg/ml Result 6.1 
25:1 w/Intralipid 1.5mg/ml Result 3.9

TH1:TH2 intracellular cytokine ratios
THFa IL-10 (CD3+CD$+) Result 23.6 (Limits 13.2 -30.6)
IFNg:IL Result 13.1 (limits 5.8 -20.5)

Factor II Mutation Prothrombibn Factor II G20210A mutation - Negative
Factor V (Leiden) Factor V G1691A - Negative
MTHFR - gene mutation MTHFR C677T mutation - Negative

What do you think he will offer me?

Pigloo


----------



## niccad

Berry - I'm so sorry. Please remember that it only takes 1. For some reason also it seems to me that people with the most difficult and stressful cycles end up with the best outcome so fingers crossed it'll be the same with you       
On the IL front - it's absolutely fine, but have something warm to wear as your arm will get a bit cold xx

Pigloo - very breifly - your 50:1 is a bit high - should be under 15. CD56 and 19+5 are high. Looks like your blood reacts better to intralipids than IVIG so that's good. for the 19+5 DrG will probably suggest gestone as this indicates you have antibodies to hormones. Your cytokine ratio is fine so no humira - yippee. Overal I think he'll suggest prednisolone, Intralipids (he might suggest IVIG as well as he likes to combine and believes this is better for CD56) and gestone. I'm sure Agate will be along soon to give you a more thorough analysis...


----------



## berry55

Niccad- thanks hun. I asked the embryoligist about the egg quality and she said that the eggs were very gd quality.... but she thinks the sperm was the reason for the poor fert rate. So i still am convinced its because i have high TNFa... or would that actually show poor egg quality? She said that 6 out of the 12 eggs fertalised but only 4 of them were gd. so feel very very negitive and i just dont know what to think now. I really wanted to have 2 blasts put back... now i dont hitnk thats going to happen. xx


----------



## Pigloo

Nicad - thanks hun thas really helpful, my tx, when would you take intalipids and IVIG in relation to treatment start time as we are due to start prob end June begining of July   

Pigloo x


----------



## agate

DND: foxp3 are good cells CD57+ are uNKs.  So basically the biopsy says nothing abnormal except that your uNKs are slightly high - Dr G is likely to suggest humira for you, I THINK.

Pigloo:  these are my GUESSES

50:1 - Result 21.5  (limits 10 - 40) - this would be better if it was under 15% killing power - so you will probably be prescribed prednisolone 25mg from day 5/6/7 of stimms and will need either IVIG/ILs or both
25:1 - Result 11.9 (limits 5 - 30) 
12,5:1 Result 3.5  (limits 3 - 20)
IgG conc 12.5 50:1** Result 11.7  (your killing power comes down well in a test tube when IVIG is added)
IgG conc 12.5 25:1**Result 8.4
IgG conc 6.25 50.1**Result 12.4
IgG conc 6.25 25:1** Result 10.6

%CD3 - Result 64.0 (limits 60 - 85)
%CD19 - Result 6.2 (limits 2 - 12)
%CD56 - Result 26.0 (limits 2 -12) ( you have a high population of NK cells as well as them having a high killing power - even more reason why you will need IVIG/ILs +pred well before ET to try to bring this down)
% of CD+19 cells,CD5+ Result 21.0 (limits 5 - 10)  (these are B cells associated with autoimmune activity - so it could mean you have, for example, anti-hormonal antibodies like anti-progesterone, anti estrogen, anti thyroid hormones etc - but there is no way to tell from this test - Dr G will probably want you on extra progesterone (gestone) just in case).

Notes ** > 10% reduction in killing at each effect/target ratio.

NK assay w/intralipid
50:1 w/intralipid 1.5 mg/ml Result 6.1 (adding ILs to your NKs in the test tube also brings down the killing power - so maybe you can get away with just ILs drips which are cheaper than IVIGs)
25:1 w/Intralipid 1.5mg/ml Result 3.9

TH1:TH2 intracellular cytokine ratios
THFa IL-10 (CD3+CD$+) Result 23.6 (Limits 13.2 -30.6)  (nice - TNFa is not elevated compared to IL10)
IFNg:IL Result 13.1 (limits 5.8 -20.5)

Factor II Mutation Prothrombibn Factor II G20210A mutation - Negative
Factor V (Leiden) Factor V G1691A - Negative
MTHFR - gene mutation MTHFR C677T mutation - Negative (all good - no inherited thrombophilias - sticky blood - you would probably get away without clexane, but because your NKs are high, Dr G will probably want you on a low dose of it because he believes that high NKs can cause similar problems to clotting issues)


Berry: we had the same thing this cycle - worst fert rates we'd ever had and we only ended up with 2 x day 3s - but we did get pg (which never happened any other time)... don't give up!!!!  Was it IVF or ICSI - sometimes IVF can give very different fert rates if the sperm are having an off day.  I'd believe what the embryologist tells you because she will have been looking at the sperm under the microscope and should be able to tell if they were below par.  The thing to concentrate on is that the ones that have fertilised should have had some natural selection going on - so they should be the best of the crop.

if its cold today where you are put the heating on before your drip and make yourself a hot drink whilst the nurse gets ready - ILs flows in better when you are cosy.

Bling: was Dr G talking about a test for mycoplasma and ureaplasma bugs?  I THINK he has been reading up on Dr Toth's work just recently- and because Dr Toth thinks that these bugs can be important too he is starting to think they should be tested for and treated too... but its all early days for this stuff.

It doesn't normally take v long to get LAD back - often if you send it on monday/tuesday the results will be back by saturday.  Bear in mind that if LAD is not good or if there are other issues e.g., high TNFa, high NKa etc, he often prescribes drips during stims, with the aim of them being 7-14 days before you have your ET (blast put back)

He normally has most ladies on prednisolone 25mg started on day 5/6/7 of stimms (depending whether you are normally a fast or a slow stimmer).  If you are only on clex for, say NK issues then its often 20mg from day 5/6/7 of stimms until you do your HCG shot (if you take your clex in the am and the HCG is at night then you can still take your clex that day, but if you do both at night then you should skip your clex)... then you don't take clex until the day after egg collection when you often start it at 40mg instead of 20mg.


----------



## berry55

agate- thanks for message. I have been crying all day  I just feel so so defeated. We has ICSI. I have a big problem. The mebryoligist has said they will not do a day 3 transfer for us as it falls on sunday- so my options are.... day 2 transfer 2 morrow. or if the emebryos r still looking good take them to blast for tuesday.... WHY WHY WHY!!!!!!! why is everything always so crappy? My mum didnt help me today when i told her the fert rate she said "omg thats so bad!!" and i was like "yes, thanks mum!" i feel like i am letting everybody down and i just cant stop crying. 
sorry for the neg posts  xxxx


----------



## agate

Berry: please try and remember that right now you have 4 good embryos and we need you to get your head together to be a good 'host mum' for them for when you get them back -if you are spending your day crying then you are not spending your day doing the other healthy eating things etc that you need to be doing today!  Remember at the end of the day you are really trying to find 1 excellent embryo from the crop.  We were in exactly the same position as you are now a few weeks ago (not enough to go to blast etc)... but hopefully baby is going to be here soon!

I THINK you have to trust your embryologist now.  If she says that they are all looking fab and she thinks they will make it to blast (and that the chances of having nothing to transfer next week are very low), then you go with her advice, but if she says, its too risky and she thinks you could end up with nothing left by next week, then you follow her advice and go for day 2s?


----------



## berry55

agate- ok  i will try to be more positive. Thanks hun    Can you come to edinburgh and visit me on my 2ww?? i need you! lol xxxx


----------



## Clarebaby

Ah Berry,

You poor Love.  Keep the faith, you can't write this off!.  Your body is in the best state it's ever been to have a successful pregnancy, you should be able to conceive like a 'normal' person, and they don't have ready made embies put back in!.

Keep positive and believe, get lots of rest and drink plenty of water.  It does only take one!!

Don't beat yourself up, that stage is done and now you have to be ready physically and mentally for this next stage.

Be strong         

Clare


----------



## agate

sorry Berry... I am far too sleepy to travel that far! but you might have to spend more time keeping me company next week as DH is away


----------



## Zeka

Berry sweety, just wanted to send you a massive virtual hug. You've had some great advice, so please focus on the embies ...they'll be part of you in no time at all. Thinking of you x
Zeka x


----------



## niccad

Berry - please try to stay positive. Such a shame the clinic isn't open on sunday, but if the embryologist tells you all are looking good tomorrow then there is hope they'll reach blast.

Question - do clinics never transfer at the morula stage on day 4?
xx


----------



## CLS

Hi Berry,

If its any help, I was in the exact same situation as you are now - 13 eggs collected and only 4 fertilised. The good news is that out of the 4 that fertilised, we had 2 go to Blastocyst stage and were able the freeze the other 2. Unfortunately we weren't successful with our IVF that time round, but as the others have said, it only takes 1 and bingo!

Keep your chin up and rememeber that you ave all of us on FF sending you big hugs and good wishes. Go and watch a funny movie, that will take your mind off it for a bit maybe?!!

CLS


----------



## Bling1975

Berry55, I really hope one of your embies is the one. Thats all you need. Thinking of you!

Agate thanks.

It was only the C-test he talked about (but I have taken at least the mycoplasma in sweden). And he insisted it was 10 days to get the testresults for LAD and TNF-a. Could it be the TH1 TH2 test that takes longer? Do you think I can call Akvil on tuesday and see if my results are back?

I am only doing a frozen transfer so I will have puregon for 14 days, then ovitrelle to release the eggs 5 days before transfer. So do you think that I then only will take the claxane for about 7-9 days? My doctor at home wants me to be on a low dose until at least week 12 of a pregnancy to be on the safe side as there still are some clotting issues they don't know about.


----------



## berry55

thanks girls     You all are so  nice! I know i need to keep positive but its so hard. I'm feeling like at every single stage of this immune stuff i have been up against something that i just cant get past. If its not greek strikes its a BA strike. Then its a Ash Clould, then its the courier mucking up the delivery for retests. Then Dr Gorgy telling me that i should have had a IL drip when he never told me that.... its just so so soooooooooooooooooo frustrating. But I know i cant change anything, i just need to keep calm and hope that my little embryos are strong and when they get put back inside me they are gonna grow so strong.           xxxxxxxxx


----------



## berry55

Niccard- I asked the embryologist about a day 4 today and she said if the embryos are looking good on a day 4 then u may aswell take them to blast. xxx


----------



## berry55

Oh and i was gonna say the embryologist is called Claire she said she used to work at the ACGR (i dont know if thats the right name for this clinic lol)  in london with Dr Gorgy. xx


----------



## Clarebaby

Hi

I'm just about to stock up on some supplements and wanted to check whether Royal Jelly is advised or not when you have high TNF Alpha issues?

Thanks


----------



## agate

the reason why i THINK clinic's don't tend to transfer at morula is that morula's all tend to look alike so you don't learn anything new about embryo quality by waiting a day after day 3 to see them turn into morula's... probably the only time you'd transfer at morula is if you were trying for blast, but then only had 1 or 2 left at morula stage so there is no longer any point waiting for another day to judge which blasts are the best from a crop.

Bling: I really don't understand the protocol... its new to me... you are on puregon (FSH) to grow some eggs for 14 days, then you take ovitrelle (HCG) to trigger them but then you don't do IVF or IUI, you just let those eggs ovulate on their own and then put back a frozen embryo?


----------



## CLS

Hi Berry,

If its any help, I was in the exact same situation as you are now - 13 eggs collected and only 4 fertilised. The good news is that out of the 4 that fertilised, we had 2 go to Blastocyst stage and were able the freeze the other 2. Unfortunately we weren't successful with our IVF that time round, but as the others have said, it only takes 1 and bingo!

Keep your chin up and rememeber that you ave all of us on FF sending you big hugs and good wishes. Go and watch a funny movie, that will take your mind off it for a bit maybe?!!

CLS


----------



## Pigloo

Oh Berry, please don't waste any more of your energy getting upset, follow the advice of your embryologist as Agate says.  Once you have your embies on board i'm sure you'll feel so much better.   

AFM - Just spoken to Dr G and Agate and Nicad you were right he has suggested I have: 

Prednisolone (I wrote down 5 mg but Agate you thought it would be 25mg, i am wondering if I misheard him   )
1 x IVIG day 5/7 of stims £1350
1 x IL 20mg day 5 stims up to day before EC and then day after EC 40mg £350
Gestone at stims - 100mg per day after E/C every mornoing and Cyclogest $00mg in the evening.  (Is this right I have wrote at stims and then after EC, I have confused myself?


I don't think we would be able to stretch to IVIG so he said we could just do 2 IL's so may go for that.

He won't do any more now until I have High V. Swab and DP has Semen culture and Sensitivity done and he gets my Hidden C test results back which will not be until end of the month when my AF shows.

I'm at GP today so will get my Thyroid drugs sorted and I have to call Dr G in 3 weeks with TSH results (another £90 phone call, eek!)

Pigloo x


----------



## Bling1975

Agate, it is just as you described it. But I only take a small dose of puregon to get 1-5 eggs. It is a new method to make sure you ovulate and get a good lining that is supposed to be more natural for the body then just taking tablets for the lining, as you actually ovulate. My doctor get the same pregnancy rates from frozen blasts as from fresh with this method.


----------



## agate

Pigloo - did you say yesterday you were up North - in which case you can ask Dr G to send you a Px for your drips to have at home with [email protected] - because its such a long way for you to travel? (Its a bit cheaper that way too - IVIG does vary depending on your weight but I am GUESSING it will cost you £1285(ish) with [email protected] , and £285.41 for ILs if you have it at home - they don't have Dr G's wimpole St overheads to pay - but its the same stuff - they just come to the house, fix up your drip and sit with you until its finished)... but you do need to be more organised to do this, because you have to get the Px to [email protected] and pay them and arrange the day with them - ideally a week in advance - although in an emergency they can turn it around a bit quicker. Bear in mind that he will probably suggest another ILs drip immediately on BFP (and maybe on 1st scan) so think about when the weekends will fall and testing early maybe so that you can get the Px sorted quicker and book in with [email protected].

yes, you don't start gestone and cyclogest until just after EC.
I think you probably did mishear the dose of the pred - but you should check with Dr G.
What you wrote about starting IL at 20mg on day 5 of stimms up to day before EC and then going to 40mg day after - sounds muddled to me. I think you are talking about 20mg clexane shots daily, going up to 40mg clexane shots after EC.

yes.. lots of ladies have 2 x IL drips a few days apart with the aim of them being 7-14 days before ET instead of IVIG.

Bling: so its like a sort of very medicated FET. I would GUESS that if there is no EC then you would be able to stay on the same dose of clexane all through (40mg probably?)- and would probably then be on to maybe 31 weeks - unless there are more significant clotting issues when you might be on it until after your baby was born.


----------



## Bling1975

Thanks agate - you always make sense of all this. 

I will call Dr G next week and see if my results are back and then ask about the pred and clexane at the same time. I need to get hold of my doctor in sweden as well for a prescription. So many doctors. I get one for the IVF, one for prescriptions, tests and extra scans and then Dr G and Dr T. It drives me a bit mental at times. My IVF clinic is really against all this and I can't swap as the have our last embies so I just don't tell them anything.


----------



## ells

Just wanted to send Berry a massive    .  Huni you have 4 good embies there, keep positive for them hun.  Like the other ladies have said, trust the embryologist she will give you the best advice hun.  Sending you a ton of                 .

Hugs and    to everyone else.

Afm, had a night from hell ... started bleeding red blood last night so ended up in A&E until 5am, then had to go to the EPU where we were scanned at 1pm (waited 3 hours) thankfully Sugar and Spice are still with us and no sign of bleeding around the babies or in my uterus.  The doctor thinks that I have irritated my cervix from the pessaries - dont think i have been sooooooo scared for a long time.  Thankfully the bleeding is easing up now and is more brown then red.  I fortunately didnt have any pain/cramping.  Off to have acu now.

Hope everyone is looking forward to the weekend.

Ells


----------



## Clarebaby

Hi

Can I have an opinion on this supplement protocol?

Don't want to do anything that might go against what I'm doing for TNFa - eg Vit B6 strengthening the immune system?

Thanks

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=226042.0

Oh no Ells, just seen your post, how scary for you. Thank G all is ok with your los.


----------



## Pigloo

Hi

Ells - what a worry for you hun, hopefully its nothing to worry about, take it easy. 

Agate - No he didn't say anything about Clexane at all so I hope he's not told me Clexane dosage for ILs  What dose of ILs would you expect him to suggest? I will have to speak to him again at some point about thyroid and to get results from Hidden C tests so I'm going to make sure I get it right but it will be on prescription anyway won't it?

Yes we are up North so would be better for us to have [email protected] come to me, thanks for the advice 

Pigloo x


----------



## agate

cb: will get back to you later after nap.
pigloo: ils is normally 100mls 20% in 200-500mls saline so what you have written sounds like clexane not ils

ells: we had our worst scares with heavy bleeding at 13-14 weeks but lo survived - some of the other immunie ladies have had the same pattern.


----------



## ratsy

Ells -     what a worry for you but thank god all ok with the bambinos 

Berry - aww bless you will be fine those 4 embies youve got will be coming along lovely now and youl have 2 lovely ones to put back of very good quality ,you could even end up with 2 too freeze tx is a strange thing you get people who respond well get to blast and end up with bfn and people who have not so good eggs with day 2 e/t with bfp youve got to take each day as it comes and go with it, Tommorow you could get fantastic news about those embies   remember your going to be a mum and like agate has said those embies need a stress free enviroment to go back  , I really wish you the best news tommorow if you can get through the nightmare of athens (oh my word ) you will get thru this coming out smiling   

R    x


----------



## DND

Tahnks agate. So you think that it will be humira for me. :-( Dr G has already prescribed LIT,  prednisolon 25 mg, IL, and Clexane + ASA. Is that not enough? ( You wrote that CD57+ are slightly increased. How do you know that they are slightly increased? 

Bling. I understand you disappointment and confusion with all doctors. Good luck with everything.


----------



## berry55

Hi girls.. thats me just had my IL drip. It was actually ok. I dont know what i was expecting but i feel totally fine. However the look of the stuff was making me feel sick as u all know i hate milk lol I'm so sorry for being so neg 2day- i think i just had such a shock and to be honest i still am i little in shock. By i'm going to try my very best to keep my PMA. Thanks everyone xxxxx


----------



## Pigloo

Agate - thanks hun, i will check this out!  Hope you enjoy your nap.

Well been to GP and guess what I have FINALLY GOT MY THYROXINE - Hallelujah!!!  I'm starting off on 25mg.  Anyone know if theres a best time of day to take these or with or without food.  I'll pop over to Underactive thyroid board too.

Berry -   

Pigloo x


----------



## agate

DND said:


> You wrote that CD57+ are slightly increased. How do you know that they are slightly increased?


because your report said that CD57+ (uNKs) were increased, and... I have a recollection that they only say that they are very high if they are over 7... but I could be wrong... but any elevation is normally Tx'd with H.


----------



## DND

thank you agate.


----------



## ells

Thanks ladies    bleeding has pretty much stopped now just a little bit of watery brown when I wipe.  Scared really doesnt cover it but sooooooo relieved that both Sugar and Spice are okay.  Not planning on moving much out of bed for the next few days.

Hope everyone has a lovely weekend.

Ells


----------



## agate

Clarebaby said:


> Hi
> 
> Can I have an opinion on this supplement protocol?
> 
> Don't want to do anything that might go against what I'm doing for TNFa - eg Vit B6 strengthening the immune system?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=226042.0


erm... that's is an awfully long post for me to try and read... reading is not really my thing....so given my feeble brain I will just have to skim it and see what leaps out at me.
I am assuming all of us will be on something like pregnacare conception or Tommys (tommy's is cheaper and I don't think there is anything particularly special in pregnacare by comparison - the only thing extra is the L arginine.

ok I'll have a go....

1.EPO - I probably wouldn't risk this on a stimmed cycle or if you have endo because its a phyto-estrogen - and you will probably be extremely estrogen'd up if you have more than a handful of good follicles on the go at once.
2.folic acid - yes I would take that - but I think she probably means 400mcg and not 400mg - she cannot possibly be saying its a good idea to take 5000mg - that's just got to be a mistake, surely! Obviously its very important to get your base level of folate and start taking it 3 months before you cycle because deficiency is linked to multiple birth defects, but taking astronomical doses dosen't make sense to me because of the link between folic acid supplements and various cancers esp bowel cancer. 400mcg is already in pregnacare/tommys.
3. CoQ10 - yes, I decided to take that but I didn't think there was enough safety data to be sure of taking it during pg so I stopped it before ET.
4.200 mcg selenium - I would want to be on selenium because it is definitely needed for fertility, but that dose is about double what I would keep to - its more than double the RDA for pregnancy - and, although its not an enormous dose, selenium is definitely very toxic in excess - Tommys contain 60 mcg and pregnacare conception contain 55mcg - that really ought to be enough.
5.500-1000 mg Vit C - I have no problem about taking high doses of vit C - the excess is safely excreted - but seeing as I am pretty strict about getting my 5 a day and am constantly drinking dilute juice I don't think I would need that - and I'd prefer to be getting my fruits and juice.
6. 15mg zinc - same as Tommys and pregnacare.
7. 14mg iron - same as pregnacare (tommy's has 17mg - I have no problem with that)
8. Vit B complex - already in pregnacare/tommys
9. Vit B6 10mg - already in pregnacare/tommys
10. Royal jelly - 1500mg per day - all the bee products seem to sold claiming that they can increase NK activity but the research I can see is really poor - so its hard to know whether they are just increasing it to normal by providing extra protein and trace minerals in patient classes who are immunosuppressed (cancer patients, aids patients, geriatric patients etc) - or whether they would increase it in someone whose NKa is already elevated - although there are some mouse studies which do seem to suggest elevation and at least the capacity to increase TNFa production by NKs even if its not actually switched on (for propolis) My GUESS is that royal jelly is likely to be the safest choice compared to bee propolis/bee pollen - but I really don't know. Although, you'd probably get a lot of the same benefit on egg quality by having good quality protein every day (e.g., chicken and milk) and taking your pregnacare for your trace minerals.
11. Bee propolis - 500mg per day - see above.
12. L arginine - 500mg per day - can't see any problem with that - but if you are eating good quality protein e.g., chicken and milk every day- you shouldn't really need it.
13. Alpha lipoic acid - don't know much about it, but can't see any obvious harm in that one.
14. 4 cups of green tea per day - yes green tea contains quercetin which is good for bringing down TNFa - but caffeine is not good for you in pg, so maybe cut the tea down when you get to 2ww or bfp (maybe eat an apple every day instead for your quercetin)- and never have tea with meals or with your supplements because it inhibits absorption of iron etc.
15. handful of brazil nuts per day for selenium in 2ww (but why would you need extra selenium if you are already taking the suggested (large) dose of 200mcg?) - other people suggest eating raw pineapple or pineapple juice for the selenium and also for bromelain to help implantation - but I'm not convinced its safe especially if the pineapple is raw because raw pineapple is supposed to increase uterine contractility.
16. fish body oil (omega 3 oil) - yes, I'd want that, at least for baby's brain development. It MAY help with NKs/TNFa but from studies its probably more likely to help if you save the higher doses for a short burst up to 2ww (and in any case, most of us ladies are on clexane and I'm nervous about taking any more than the minimal dose alongside clexane because of its blood thinning effect).
17. 75mg aspirin - Dr G does tend to recommend that. I'm a bit sceptical - as the evidence for it is not so good, and certainly Dr S is very much against it and in favour of sticking with clexane, particularly if you are having IVF.
18. no artificial sweeteners - agree with that.
19. avoid vitamin A except as beta carotene - agree with that (would avoid liver, cod liver oil and pate for same reason whilst TTC) - too much strain on your liver.
20.manganese - deficiency is pretty rare
21. magnesium - already sufficient in pregnacare/tommys.

I'd probably want tumeric if you have high TNFa and would maybe have 1 or 2 of the antioxidants lycopene, resveratrol or pcynogenol (lycopene being the safest choice as its likely to be safer for baby).
I'd also go for a minimal calcium supplement (calcium citrate rather than carbonate - if you are already feeling bloated from stims/pg) if you are taking clexane for a long time, and a 20-30 mcg of Vit D unless you get outside plenty (which is easier at this time of year, I guess) because vit D deficiency is fairly common esp in scotland in winter and deficiency is associated with elevated TNFa.
For elevated TNFa/NKa I would also try and avoid saturated fats (inc chocolate, pastry, cakes, biscuits, sausages etc) and increase unsaturated fats like olive and rapeseed oil - otherwise you are going to be undoing whatever good the ILs is doing for you.

So I guess I see the logic in where angelbumps is going, but I am bit more cautious than she is, maybe, and us ladies with TNFa and NKa issues have other things to think about as well.

hope this helps.

Ells: good to hear that. It really does sound as though things are going to be ok - you may have other bleeds, but things will probably still be ok and will probably settle eventually. Staying in bed for a few days sounds a really good idea to me. don't forget to keep hydrated. I hope DH is looking after you and that when you get up in a few days time everything will be perfect.


----------



## ells

Thanks Agate    - yes DH is looking after me - making me a sandwhich as we speak    .

Ells


----------



## Louiseb26

Ells - I'm so glad that sugar and spice are doing well...what lovely names.It must have been so awful for you.Take it easy over the weekend Hun.Sending all three of you big   

Berry - You need a big cuddle   Just remember Hun...it only takes one.Don't get yourself stressed,as those beautiful little embies need a stress free home.Stay strong lovely.

Lou xx


----------



## Mousky

Ladies,

Sorry for being AWOL.
We've just moved and we're trying to organize everything here.

Pigloo - we still have no fax set up so I have to wait for my results   Also, Akvil said the DQ results aren't in yweet. She'll post everything in one go somewhere next week    I'm almost going to a post office to receive a fax   Btw, I take my thyroxine in the morning, 1h before I eat, take vits etc. 

Berry - sending some    and    your way.

A big hello to everyone else, I'll be back as soon as we have internet connection.


----------



## Louiseb26

Agate very intresting on the reply you gave for  Angelbumps vitamin list.I have been taking most of the vitamins on her list.

Zita West pregnancy plan x1
Folic acid x1
Selenium 1x200mg
Vit B,B12 X2
Vit B6 1x200mg
Vit D3 x1
Vita DHA x2
Royal Jelly 3x500mg
Bee Propolis 1x500mg ( I have stopped taking these)
L-Arginine 1x500mg
Vit C 1x500mg
Turmeric 2x400

Do you think these are ok to take? I never thought some of these could make my immune worst   

Lou xx


----------



## ratsy

Hi mousky 

Do you know you can get free fax to e-mail i had mine sent like that i had my hidden c test sent to me i havnt got a fax 

R x


----------



## Peanuts

Hi girls

Ells - so glad things seem to have settled down hun     You must have ha a real scare   Hoping you're taking it easy and DH is looking after you andSugar & Spice     

Berry - sending you a massive hug petal     I hope you've got your head around things and are getting ready for positive chats with embryologists tomorrow          There's a wee fighter or 2 in there hun, you just need to get ready for them to be snuggling in for the long haul soon  

Agate - thansk for the info about drips.  I have a px for Il, so should I do that if I get a BFP and then an IVIG on a scan?  Are there other side effects or things I need to think about for IVIG?

Only a week until OTD - not sure how I'm going to cope!!  

Big hugs to everyone   
Dxx


----------



## agate

Peanuts said:


> thansk for the info about drips. I have a px for Il, so should I do that if I get a BFP and then an IVIG on a scan? Are there other side effects or things I need to think about for IVIG?


I don't know which order is best (I think I had ILs first on BFP though - and it kind of makes sense to save the expensive one for when you know there is definitely a baby to protect?)- didn't Dr G say when the Px was for?
The only side effects I get with IVIG is feeling headachey, cold and sleepy. You can take paracetamol for the headache (although they are less bad if you are well fed and hydrated before and during your drip), need to wrap up warm and have a hot drink to stay warm - and I always have a nap afterwards (but I have a lot of naps).

Louise: Zita West pregnancy plan x1 - no problem with these but they seem pretty expensive compared to other brands - I'm happy with the cheaper ones
Folic acid x1 - this might not be necessary if you are already on the pregnancy vits because they should have enough - but its not going to do you any harm if you are only taking whilst TTC (and for 3 months before each cycle) - unless maybe you are taking extra for MTHFR ****?
Selenium 1x200mg - you must mean 200mcg? given there is already 100mcg in the pregnancy vits - you are taking a lot of selenium - are you sure its safe?
Vit B,B12 X2 - don't know the dose, but don't think its toxic in excess
Vit B6 1x200mg - do you mean mcg? otherwise that's a lot.
Vit D3 x1 - don't know what dose you are taking - I'd aim for 20-30 mcg.
Vita DHA x2 - if its for baby's brain during pg then that's fine, if its for NKs for your Tx then I THINK you'd be better off with eskimo oil because its EPA you need not DHA or GLA (all are omega 3's but EPA is the one that's active against NKs in the short term - so maybe I'd save those for pg and go for eskimo oil for Tx).
Royal Jelly 3x500mg - I'm not sure about this - but it seems safer than the propolis - there just aren't enough credible studies for me to make my mind up on the bee products though.
Bee Propolis 1x500mg ( I have stopped taking these)
L-Arginine 1x500mg - don't have any problem with this
Vit C 1x500mg - or this
Turmeric 2x400 - this should help with high TNFa

ratsy: that's exactly what I was going to say. really helpful when you haven't got a fax.


----------



## Pigloo

Mousky - I used fax at work,  what a shame you have to wait, still i guess its not too long to wait.

Interesting that you can have fax sent to email, how does that work then   

Pig x


----------



## agate

Its this sort of thing, but there are lots of different ones, just google 'free fax to email' and you will see lots of alternative sites. Basically, you register your email with the site and they give you a personal fax number - and when someone faxes to that number, it sends to your email account instead of a real fax machine. These sites make their money because the phone charge to send the fax is slightly higher than normal (e.g., 10p per minute instead of 7p) - but seeing as a 2 page fax only takes about 30 secs (or less) - its not really that expensive and it is convenient if you find yourself away from a fax machine as you can pick it up with your email from anywhere in the world.

http://www.freefaxtoemail.net/FAQ.aspx


----------



## berry55

girls, girls, girls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I got my phone call from clinic today and the embryologist said my embryos are gorgeous !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  all 4 are grade 1's (we have never had grade 1's b4) and 3 are 5 cell and 1 is a 4 cell    So the embryologist said we have defo to go 2 blastocyst stage. Just praying so much that we have 2 blasts on tuesday. Thanks for all the support so far! xxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Pigloo

Berry, fab news honey..   

I had a strange dream last night about my old cat (who died a few years ago) wierd!  Anyway its set me off looking on t'interweb for a cat, DP not amused, i'm sure the urge will pass    Dp would rather have a dog but i think we will just leave both for now, i would soo luv a little furbaby!

Pigloo (just took my first throxine this am)

(oh and pup in picture is my mum's in case your thinking i already have a furbaby)
x


----------



## Zeka

Pup in your pic is just gorgeous!!!! I'd love a dog or cat but don't think my lazy house bunny would be that thrilled with the idea!

Berry, lovely shiney embies! Go you! X

Agate hun, that's really interesting re fax. Trying to think who I can get to fax me now just so I can get a no.! 

Zeka x


----------



## CLS

That's great news Berry - congratulations!
Just had my LAD tests results back and was after a bit of feedback (Gorgy is calling me alter to give me his view but am keen to hear yours).
On the surface, it looks like its good news re: both B cells IgM and IgG but am wondering what it means for the Flowcytometry to be positive instead of negative. From what I understand, Flowcytometry is the process in which the samples are analysed so not sure why they show up positive?
Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Flowcytomerty: POSITIVE
[T-cells] IgM+: 1%
[T-cells] IgG+: 99.1%
[B-cells] IgM+: 31.3%
[B-cells] IgG+: 93.3%


----------



## berry55

CLS- i'm pretty sure those LAD results r fab!!!! whoo hoo!!!! xxxx


----------



## ells

Berry fantastic news! You must be very proud of your little embies!

CLS, your results sounds great hun!

Peanuts one week down !! How are you feeling sweetie? Remember the mantra *THIS HAS WORKED YOU ARE PREGNANT . *Keep telling yourself that hun!!!

Louise thank you  . The names came to me as they were being transfered!!

Agate hope you are doing well hun.

Hope everyone else is doing okay.

No more bleeding - phew !!

Hope everyone has a lovely saturday.

Ells


----------



## Zeka

Ells, so glad to hear things have calmed down. Hope you are able to have a relaxed w/e without worrying too much. Big hug. 
Peanuts, this is the time when it gets so hard, isn't it. Sanity goes out the window to all kinds of 2ww obsessing  Keeping everything crossed for you. 

Zeka x


----------



## ells

Zeka    thanks hun.  I am not worrying now as the blood has pretty much stopped and its brown now.  Spending the day in bed so not doing much at all!  have a good weekend sweetie,

Ells


----------



## agate

CLS said:


> Flowcytomerty: POSITIVE
> [T-cells] IgM+: 1%
> [T-cells] IgG+: 99.1%
> [B-cells] IgM+: 31.3%
> [B-cells] IgG+: 93.3%


those are fab results. flowcytometry is arbitrarily determined to be positive if the average of all 4 numbers is over 30%.


----------



## mag108

ells: you poor thing what a scare! I am glad all has settled down now. Such a worry but as Agate says, it seems that us immune ladies are prone.  

So sorry everyone has had such a run around with flights, BA etc. It really has been a rough year for everyone getting to Athens, getting tests off and results back

Thanks to Agate for continuing to be so generous and responsive in such a tremendous way, you really are such a huge help to everyone AGATE!   

Berry: See! You got four brilliant ones! 

Peanuts: hug hug 1 week to go 

Big hugs to everyone who needs them, sorry I have been AWOL.
Finding I am not reacting well to anti-b's and feeling sick, tired and foggy headed all week. Fell ok today and just as well, it's my birthday! (not really celebrating cos of anti-b's and feeling a bit blue).

Going for some food n a film 2nite with DH x


----------



## ells

Happy Birthday Mags    .  I hope that you have a lovely day and are able to celebrate a little bit later on   .  How much longer do you have to go with the ab's?  

Niccard, hows the tx going?  Did you manage to get your drips sorted out?

  and    to everyone.

Ells


----------



## ratsy

Hi ladies 

Berry -        knew those embies could do it fantastic news 

Mags - aww bless hope your feeling better soon ,and happy bithday   

Ells - hope your resting and taking it easy and dh looking after you   

CLS - Thats a fab result ive never seen one that good 

Peanuts - Hope 2ww going quick for 

Agate - I agree with mags we wouldnt know what to do without you id never have got this far without your help and kindness    

Soz if ive missed anyone hope your all well and have fab weekend   

R    xx


----------



## Zeka

Happy Birthday Mags   , shame no    allowed (I'm assuming). Hope ou have a nice chilled day and a little pressie or two to lift your spirits.
Zeka x


----------



## agate

Berry: how cool are your embies! 
Mags: happy birthday.

AFM: had to a trip to the hosp today - but baby sounds ok and will be having scan next week which will be a double check.


----------



## Zeka

Agate, did you have a scare or was it routine check up? Glad to hear bubs is doing well! ...not long to go now!
Zeka x


----------



## ells

Agate glad baby is okay, hope the wait for the scan next week does drag too long for you hunni.   

Ells


----------



## Clarebaby

Agate

Thanks so much for your reply last night re the Angelbumps supplement list, I agree that there are some changes I need to make.  Sorry it was a long read!.  

Hope all is well with you and the baby.

Thanks
Clare


----------



## sarahh

Agate, think your trip to the hospital must have been an emergency one on a sat, hope everything is ok    

Berry - what fab embies,    for you that they are beautiful blasts on Tues.  Take care of yourself until then. 

Ells - sorry to hear about your scare, I'm sure you are taking care of yourself and Sugar & Spice, maybe think about taking a few days off work next week too just to make sure you rest up?   

Lou b - did you get your results today?? 

AFM - I am pleased to report that my TNF level has come down to 19.1 and my C test was a BFN (the only time I've been praying for one of those) so a big HURRAH from me!  

Sorry to all I've missed, I've been reading for ages trying to catch up on news. 

Been spending the last 4 weeks since taking Humira thinking that I've had no colds etc. so TNF must be very high still and guess what, I've got a real bad sore throat tonight!!!!!    But I don't mind if my TNF is low!!  

Have a nice Sunday everyone, 

Sarah xx


----------



## sarahh

Oh sorry, forgot to ask, is there any news about when Dr G is starting LIT? 

Sarahx


----------



## berry55

Mags- Happy Birthday!!!

Agate- so glad your check up went well and baby is doing good!!! xxx

Sarah- Welldone you on ur TNFa!!! Thats great news!!!! Wish mine came down that well... mine is still high... 35.4.... but i'm hoping it will countinue to lower with having a IL drip now. xxx


----------



## fi7

hi

just wanted to pop on to say Berry what fab news,  such great embies   ,  I am sooo happy for you.

Ells - glad you are ok, sounds scary

mags -    big hug and happy birthday, just keep taking those small steps forward.

hugs to all

fi


----------



## Cath34

Hi everyone, Ive got a lot to catch up on I can see.

Firstly Ells, huge congrats to you on sugar and spice- fab news,
Berry- Your embies sound fab, bring on the blasts!! Ask about Assisted hatching too as I had it on my blasts to try something different and I ended up pregnant for the first time, although I dont know if it made any difference, Im glad I did it. Best of luck for Tues.
Agate- I hope you and bump are well hun?
Sarah - Fabulous news hun, at last you are having some positive news after a run of knock backs. I'm so pleased for you. 
AFM- I have 3 weeks left with a plan from my local cons to go to term June 7th and if no joy c-sec on the 8th!!! I was happy with that but my DH is off on operations with the army that week which means no timw with me and new baby so I'm going to ask if I can have a c-sec on the 3rd as they only do planned ones on Tues & Thurs down here!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you all think I shouldn't?
i think ive got it in my head that i dont want any complications with natural birth and with my severe endo I dont think it will be straight forward, so 4 days early doesnt sound too bad does it?


----------



## Diane72

Too much to catch up on but wanted to pop on and say 

- Good news on the embies Berry-sending you lots of luck!
-Peanuts sending you fairydust!  
-Agate: still sending you good, calming vibes
-Mag, Happy Birthday
-Sarah-great news on results

Hugs to everyone else   

I've just had a laparoscopy to remove endometriosis and about to send my second re-test sample to Greece and will take it from there..........

Diane x


----------



## sarahh

Sorry also forgot 2 say happy birthday 2 mag108, having just finished 14 wks of antib's 4 latent TB, I know how depressing it is on them long term when u feel b. ****! Hope u start 2 feel a bit better soon. X

Sarah x


----------



## Diane72

Quick question:

- I am guessing Mr. Gorgy will only do paternal LIT and not donor?

Just got my post-Greece results back and the paternal LIT if anything is making it worse!
    
T cells IgM+ - 1.0  (vs. 16.0)
T cells IgG+ - 7.3    (vs. 2.1)
B-cells IgM+ - 26.6  (vs 47.6)
B-Cells IgG+ - 40.7  (vs. 41.6)

Diane


----------



## CLS

Thanks ladies for all your feedback and well wishes on the LAD results - much appreciated. I must admit I was a bit shocked and couldn't help but wonder if the results were right when I saw them coming thru the fax machine, especially when my previous results werent good (eg.) [B-cells] IgG+: 11.5%.

So at least it gives us all hope that sometimes these expensive and stressful treatments do work which is some sort of consolation I guess. (I now just hope my TNFa results are also good.... fingers crossed.)

Enjoy the rest of the weekend ladies. Good luck to those going to Athens for Tuesday and those having treatments this week, and the rest of us just continuing on with our fertility adventures!

CS

PS. Diane - Dr. Gorgy is trying to wrok out a way to do donor (including using various bloods from his patient's partners). I spoke to Akvil about it on Friday and she said he's still finalising all the LIT details but should be up and running soon (?!). Also, I read somewhere that sometimes your system has an initial reaction to the treatment and can show a spike in the results. This happened to me with my Humira treatment / TNFa results and Dr. G said it sometimes happens but ususally it settles down after the first set of treatment.


----------



## berry55

Hey girls,

Hope everybody is doing ok. I'm getting myself in a little worry about my embryos... i know there is nothing i can do...  and i wont know how they r doing until tuesday when i go for ET. But i keep worrying that there will be no embryos for ET, i'm so so sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo worried. I know you all r gonna prob give me a big SLAP, BUT I JUST CANT HELP IT! lol xx


----------



## ells

Berry    I was exactly the same but you have to trust your embies - remember the clinic will phone you so keep positive for your little ones.


Diane good luck for your retest results, really hope that they come back clear this time.

Sarah, great results on your TNFa you must be really pleased.  I have next week off so will not be doing much at all.  DH and I are planning on going away for a few days R&R at the end of the week.  

Hope everyone else is doing okay    .

Ells


----------



## Peanuts

Hi girls

Berry - great news about your embies   Stop worrying!!! AS Ells says you need to trust your wee embies and embryologist at the clinic.  A wee call tomorrow to check up on them!!  Big hugs to you, DH and embies   

Ells - thanks so much for the mantra hun - will be repeating it all week - even in my moments of madness! Glad you're taking it easy and have a week off to look after yourself and bubba's   Think you all deserve some R&R - enjoy    

CLS - thats great news about your LAD results - well done you!   Here's hoping for0r the same for your TNFa's     When I spoke to DrG last week, he said he'd had his licence for LIT but still a couple of things to sort out.  As if I get to a BFP, then I'll need a booster shot asap, so he seemed to think I could do it through him.

Diane - good to hear from you hun    Well done you on getting through the anitB's and your lap.  Hoping the re-test results are good news and you can start to plan what happens next     Well done you on the weight loss too, is that through your special diet?  Your LAD results are still holding (nearly) steady, so at least not dropping hugely, so try not to despair.  AS CLS says, DrG is hoping to do donor, using other girls DH's bloods, but not sure how it'll work in practice.

Cath - wow, can't believe you are only 3 weeks away!  No I don't think a few days early is too much to ask for DH to see his bubba before heading off   Sending you lots of luck for the next few weeks and on D-day        

Sarahh - great news on your TNF and C-test, so happy for you   Here's hoping that things are on the up  

Mags - sorry you're having a rough time with the antiB's, but it'll all be worth it hun    Hope you managed to enjoy your film and dinner with DH, and had a wonderful birthday    

Zeka - thanks for crossing everything - thinking I'm going to need it!  Yep - insanity has well and truly kicked in!!     Loving your house bunny - don't think he'd cope with my furbaby - he loves to chase bunnies!

Fi - how you doing hun?  Any progress on the IUI front?  How's DH keeping?  Sending you big hugs   

Agate - DrG gave me a px with 3 IL on it just in case, but only advised 2 in the end, 1 a week after 2nd LIT and another on day 6 of stimms.  Thinking I should have maybe had another one during stimms, but not much I can do about that now.  Will wait to see what Fri brings and then call DrG for advice.  Hoping that bubba is doing well after your check and you're taking it easy   Hoping the scan can put your mind as ease some more    

AFM - as I've said the insanity has kicked in   I was feeling a bit odd yesterday, but not sure if it was good odd or bad odd!  Took it easy though and feeling better today.  Have had a few twinges, but not sure if its just me imagining things!!    Just hoping that I can make it to Friday and then see what happens after that - THIS HAS WORKED, I AM PRG!!  Will need to say that a few more times before I'm convinced!

Big hugs to anyone I've forgotten   
Dxx


----------



## berry55

i forgot to mention that 2day i started the crinone gel (day 3 post  ec) and i have noticed its been sort of coming out lumpy during the day- should i b worried about that?? xx


----------



## deegirl

berry55 - well done on being PUPO!  Sounds like you have some great embryos on board...yay!  I was on crinone gel on my FET.  I was told that it can get clogged up in the vagina and to once in a while scoop it out (yuck!).  Apparantly the progesterone is absorbed relatively quickly so no worries about the residue coming out.  

Peanuts - hi hun   

Cath - congrats on making it this far, all the best for DD.

Ells - so glad your bleed was nothing to worry about.  BIG hugs.

CLS - hope you're ok.

Hi to Agate, Zeka, Mag (happy birthday!), ratsy, clarababy, sarahh and everyone else reading!

Dee x


----------



## berry55

deegirl- i'm not pupo, we r hoping for our embryos to reach blasto stage. Hope that i will be pupo on tuesday!!!! Praying soooo much that our embryos r still going strong!! xxxx


----------



## sarahh

Hi all, just a quickie, Cath, I think you should go with your instinct and if that is to ask for C section on the 3rd then do it!  Its your body and your baby.  Just make sure your mum is very near by if DH is away as you may not be able to do much after a c section on your own.  Keep me updated hon   

Agate,  hope everything is ok with you, your absence today has been noted by me and hope that its just because you are resting up   .  

Berry, don't worry yourself silly about the embies, just call tomorrow.  If they said they would notify you if any issues & you are worried about phoning in then just say that you just need to hear how they are doing.  They are your embies, you have a right to know how they are doing.    

Peanuts, will keep    for you that Friday brings fab news for you.  Hold in there girl, keep strong & stay relaxed (yeah right, who am I trying to kid, just wait till you hear from me on 2ww!!!)   

Have a terrible sore throat so off to bed.  

Sorry to all I've missed,    to all 

Sarah x


----------



## Mousky

Hello everyone,

It's been quiet here   

I hope the ladies going to Athens made it with no problems    

Agate - I hope you're well, going to the hospital on a Sat doesn't sound very relaxing   

Berry - how are your embies doing? hope you can have them back tomorrow    

Peanuts - how are you holding on?    

Mag -   (belated) I hope you could still enjoy some of it    

Well, I received our results today - thanks for the tip Agate and Ratsy   I had a quick look and it didn't look too bad. Some were a bit high and obviously the LAD results were low. I asked DH to print it at work as we're still not properly connected at home - Lord, I hate moving   - and then I'll post it later to get your opinions before ringing Dr G   

Loads of love to everyone!

A quick question - I can't resist   - would I still need Humira with TNF-a IL10 - 31.9?


----------



## berry55

hey girls,

Just had call from embryologist. My embryos r doing ok (thank God) All 4 r still there. (well, they checked them yesterday- and now they said they will not touch them until tomorrow) My ET is at 1pm. Yesterday the embryos were at 2x9cell, 1x8cell and 1x6cell- no fragmentation. I’m so so sooooooooo nervous about it all. But really looking forward to being PUPO again. 
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Pigloo

Mousky - Glad your results don't sound too bad, here's hoping you don't need the Humira    I posted you a question on the Thyroid thread (not been on there yet you may have replied?)

Berry  - All sounding good and embies were def at the stage they should have been at yesterday   

Sarah - Hope you feel better soon hun

Peanuts - YOU WILL BE PREGNANT     

Hi to everyone else   

Pigloo x


----------



## JasmineX

Hi Ladies

I hope you don't mind me jumping onto this thread to ask a question. I had my initial consult with Dr G last week and DH and I had lots of bloods sent off for testing. My period is due this week and I am due to do the chlamydia test on Wednesday which I'm predicting will be day 2 of my cycle.

The problem is I am at work teaching from 9 to 5 on Wednesday and Thursday, so won't be able to arrange the FedEx pickup until Friday unless I get DH to take time off work and stay at home.

Has anyone else had this problem? How long can you keep the sample in the fridge for before sending it? It doesn't go by "cold" delivery anyway, so I'm hoping its not a problem?

Would be grateful for any help....

Thanks

 

Jasmine
XXX


----------



## Bling1975

Mousky - I had similar TNF-a levels and got 2 shots of Humira. But I assume it depends on what other treatment you will have.

Berry - I hope you have some perfect blasts tomorrow - good luck!

I will hopefully get my retest results tomorrow. Dr G must have been confused when he said 10 days, I checked with Chicago and they said 3 days and I spoke with Akvil today and she had one and said she would have the other one tomorrow and fax then both then. Very nervous. Will start my injections on Wednesday if all goes well.


----------



## Zeka

Berry, great news you've not got an fragmentation!
Will be thinking of you tomorrow and sending you happy relaxing thoughts! 
Zeka x


----------



## Mousky

Bling - not what I want to hear/read  but obviously I must speak to Dr G. I hope to get a consult for tomorrow. Which results are you still waiting for? My DQ indeed took 10 days to be ready...

Berry - they sound great   for tomorrow 

Jasmine - I had mine overnight outside the fridge and it was still good enough to get a "strong positive"  I know they all recommend to leave it in the fridge but indeed my sample was not sent through cold delivery as you say 

So my results were:

DQ-a 
2.1 3.1 (DH)
1.1 4.1 (Me)

F V Leiden/F II/ MTHFR - negative

TH1:TH2

TNFa- IL10 - *31.9* (13.2 - 30.6)
IFNg- IL10 - 9.8 (5.8 -20.5)

NK Assay

50.1 *21.2*
25.1 13.2
12.5.1 10.2
IgC conc 12.5.50.1 16. 3
IgC conc 12.5.25.1 12. 3 
IgC conc 6.25.50.1 16. 3
IgC conc 6.25.25.1 14.7
% CD3 76.6
%CD19 7.4
%CD56 11.1
% of CD19+cells,CD5 *10.8*

LAD

Flowcytometry NEGATIVE
T-cells IgM+ 7.8
T-cells IgG+ 1.1
B-cells IgM+ 24.6
B-cells IgG+ 18.4

NK assay w/Intralipid

50.1 w/Intralipid 1.5 mg/ml 15.8
25.1 w/Intralipid 1.5 mg/ml 7.8

Any input appreciated


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## Bling1975

Mousky - aha, he did confuse the time for the LAD and the DQ-a. I had my LAD and TH1 TH2 retested after 2 shots of Humira and two shots of paternal LIT. I only had the TNF-a (31,4) and the low LAD. But we had one DQ-a match as well, maybe that matters. But the Humira was fine, only problem is the cost really. But I managed with a lot of begging to get it on the swedish nhs so I didn't have to pay for it. So happy!


----------



## Desi

Evening Ladies!

Hope you are all fine?!

Today I collected my prescription of Prednisolone and have been reading about the side effects, OMG....  
I think quite some of you have been or are on Pred as well, what were the side effects you faced?
Swollen face?
Changes in your menstrual cycle?
Did anybody feel they had better weaned off within 3 weeks of usage? It says you can stop without weaning off within 3 weeks, but am wondering what your experiences are?

Have a nice evening,
Desi.
Xxx


----------



## Bling1975

I am going to try and convince my swedish doctor to give me Prednisolon, clexane and Ivig. I managed with the Humira as I had a good study to show him. Do you know of any really good ones on especially Ivig that I can print and send him tomorrow?


----------



## Peanuts

Hi girls

Thanks for all your positive vibes - is really helping me get through these last few days - 4 sleeps to go!  Had a wee spot of brown blood last night which came out with some Crinone cream (sorry TMI).  Was really panicing, but hoping it was implantation and nothing else.  No real symptoms either way so trying to keep positive and think happy thoughts!!   

Berry - what fab embies - well done you guys!!    Here's hoping for a smooth transfer tomorrow, a happy 2ww and fab news at the end of it.         

Mousky - My TNFa results were about 34 and I couldn't take Humira due to my TB tests coming back as Indeterminant.  DrG recomended 2 IL drips, but unfortunately my TNFa's went up to 48!  Will be trying to sort out Humira if I need another cycle at some point.  Good luck with everything    

Big hugs everyone    
Dxx


----------



## Cath34

Berry- best of luck for ET, all sounds good with your embies.
Desi- I would say no real need to wean after 3 weeks, I was on them for ages before FET and then for 3 months once pregnant, I needed to wean off due to long term use. Side effects are moon face!!! well I had that anyway. Headaches are also a sign but everyone's different.
I got my GP to prescribe prednisolone!! and folic acid, clexane and some gestone!!! Try your luck, I would.

AFM- Thanks girls, I will speak to my cons Weds and see if I can get it changed to the 3rd but I'm having quite a lot of pelvic pain so I wouldnt mind n early appearance!! lol

Keep the faith girls, if I can get pregnant, there's hope for all.


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## Zeka

Bling, I think there is a study (Mr Taranissi was a key consultant) that supports Dr Beer's views that ivig post humira combination works best. I can't remember the details sorry. I'll have a hunt for it and post the link if I can find it.

Edit: Here is the link to the study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19055656

Zeka x

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## ells

Peanuts    I really hope this is your implantation bleed    . Remember *YOU ARE PREGNANT AND THIS HAS WORKED!*

Desi, I have had pred, and it actually makes me feel much better. Its fine to just stop within 3 weeks but any longer and you need to gradually reduce your mg's as you may get some awful 'withdrawal' effects - bed headaches, sickness etc. A few years back I was I a very high dose - 45mg for 6 months and that caused me to gain weight but I did manage to loose a lot of it eventually (but I do have some major health probs). You will be fine hun.

Cath, defo go for the 3rd - I bet you cant wait and you must be sooooo excited to meet your little one. Will be logging in waiting for the news  .

Berry good luck for tomorrow hun, sounds like you will have some beautiful blasts to put back  . Make sure you rest up well after your ET.

Bling sorry cant help on the research front, but I hope you have lots of luck in finding what you need and getting it px by your doctor.

Hi to everyone else I hope you are all okay. Big  to you all.

Ells


----------



## sarahh

Hi all - still no posts from Agate??    Hon, really hope everything all ok.   

Desi - I think I've given up reading the side effects for worry about what I'm going to get    fyi I had no problems with the prednisolone except headaches, and very bad ones when I stopped - when I take again I will def wean off even if I'm on it for a short time.  

Mousky - your TNF is indeed slightly over the 30 threshold so I would expect that Dr G will recommend Humira; hopefully 2 injections will be all you need with those levels.  

Your LAD is low so I expect that LIT will be recommended but you don't have any matching DQ Alpha numbers so you should be ok with paternal LIT. 

Your NK's are raised so I expect Dr G will recommend prednisolone but the good news is that in the test tube Intralipids (much cheaper) works slightly better than IVIG although Dr Gorgy definitely prefers to use a mix of both IVIG & Intralipids (not together!) whatever the results show if you can afford it.  

You don't seem to have any clotting issues so you may escape Clexane. 

I can't remember the thresholds for CD19 / 5+ but you have highlighted it - if this is high then I expect you will have Gestone suggested as well.  

I can't give you the experienced explanations like Agate does but hopefully I've got them right, but don't quote me on it!!!!! 

Jasmine - can't you get your "package" collected from your workplace; you don't have to mention what it is!  Have you got an instruction sheet - I think it says wrap it in aluminium foil and put it in the fridge.  Think it should be ok for a day or so but obviously best to send it off asap.  FYI if you phone Fedex before 3pm they pick up the same day, I wonder if you phoned just before 3pm if you would be able to arrange a pick up for after 5pm?  Maybe worth phoning the number to find out about whether they can give you any idea of pick up time once you have arranged a collection?  

Berry - those embies are sounding good, best of luck for tomorrow hon      you have 4 beautiful embies waiting for you.  

Peanuts, remember brown is old blood so not fresh red which is more concerning so    it is a tiny bit from implantation. 

AFM I'm so fed up this eve, after getting my great results at the weekend I was hoping to be up & running so I phoned dr G today only to find out that he has now decided not to push the lab doing the LIT anymore and it will be at least the beginning of June before he starts; so the way that my timing works then I will prob have to wait yet another cycle!  I'm so frustrated, I know a few weeks doesn't sound much but DH & I have put our lives on hold since Nov 08 & we've only managed one cycle in that time because of all the tests / results / waiting etc. etc. etc.  Sorry for the rant girls, sure you have all been / are all in the same position but I really thought I would be up & running within the next 2 weeks      Hey ho, deep breath eh 

Still feeling pants with sore throat too.  But hey, it could be worse!! 

Sarah xx


----------



## sarahh

Ells, happy 12 weeks - meant to past the worrying time now eh?!  Bet you'll get sick of hearing that - its worrying right up until week 40 eh?!!!  Still, you've got this far, well done Sugar & Spice - will you find out what sex they are?  Are you having a scan this week? 

Sarah x


----------



## ells

Sarah sorry to hear you are having timing issues - there is nothing worse then waiting to get going on all this.  I do hope the you get your LIT done sooner rather then later and Dr G gets it sorted out sooner.  

No scan this week, because we had the emergency scan on Friday they cancelled our NT one as they did it all on Friday.  I did phone the mw today to see if we could keep the scan on 25th for reassurance but when she phoned back she said that they had already cancelled it and they wouldnt rebook    and that if I had any more bleeding to phone the EPU and they would look after me.  I dont think i will be able to hold out until 16 weeks, the worrying really doesnt stop.  I am pleased to say that the bleeding seems to have all but stopped now - thank goodness as going to the toilet has been a very scary experience.
We are not going to find our the makes and models    we have always said we want a surprise!

Agate as Sarah said, really hope all is okay with you and your LO.    .

Ells


----------



## berry55

Hi girls,

Just wanted to say thanks for all the nice wishes you all have gave me! It means so much to have you all routing for me!  

1 qn- I have been on Gestone for 5 days now- sorry for the tmi coming up but is it normal that my nipples r now like actual grapes? They r HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

xxxxx


----------



## CLS

Morning Ladies,

I got my TNFa re-test results back yesterday and we're almost there but not quite. 
TNFa: 36.8% (original result was 40.7%, 2nd test was 47% so a definite improvement!)
IFNg: 19.0%

I'm having a phone consult with Dr. G later today to discuss next steps but suspect he will suggest more Humera and IL like last time?

My previous IL was done at Dr. G's office but I thought I saw a post about getting it through [email protected] Looking back on posts, the only info I can find is the following:
"....and £285.41 for ILs if you have it at home - they don't have Dr G's wimpole St overheads to pay - but its the same stuff - they just come to the house, fix up your drip and sit with you until its finished)... but you do need to be more organised to do this, because you have to get the Px to [email protected] and pay them and arrange the day with them - ideally a week in advance - although in an emergency they can turn it around a bit quicker."

Has anyone got any other / updated info they can give me on IL's other than through Dr. G as we are trying to save some money if / where possible.

And same with IVIG (just incase he suggests that) - can that be done through Healthcare @ Home or just via Dr. G?

Thanks

CS

PS. Good luck today Berry and hi to everyone else.


----------



## niccad

Agate - I hope that you're ok....    

Berry - many congrats on the embies x Surely changes in nipples is a good sign    I'll be thinking of you at 1pm today x

Ells - 12 weeks!! yippee!! Shame that the scan got cancelled and hope that you can organise another one. Great news that the bleeding has stopped... x

CLS - i've only ever heard of Dr G in London and H&H for ILs... The prices at DrG have gone up and it's now £340 for IL..  H&H do IVIG as well as DrG 

Peanuts - I have everything crossed for you. Sounds like implantation bleeding to me...     

Sarahh - so sorry to hear about the delay. It's only a short time, but I know exactly how you feel especially when you get yourself all psyched up to start.. I hope that time goes quickly x

Mousky - Your TNFa is only slightly raised so I'm not sure if DrG will suggest humira as hopefully pred and IL will bring it down. Your NK's are slightly high (should be under 15) but it seems that neither IL or IVIG bring them down below 15. I think he'll suggest a combination of both (along with the prednisolone). Your CD19+5 is only slightly increased - he might suggest gestone post EC (or perhaps just extra cyclogest). I'm sure he'll suggest LIT for the LAD numbers as you really want that 18.4 figure to be over 50...  Good luck xx

AFM - well i'm day 12 of stimming and looks like I might be triggering tonight (had a scan this morning but have to have another one later - ARGC are definitely thorough). Have 7 follies over the line and a few smaller ones. Beginning to get excited. Question - I had 1 dose of IL this time... couldn't have IVIG as I'm allergic. My CD56 was only slightly high... if you were me would you try to get another IL in before ET?? Any thoughts appreciated.

Big hugs to all


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## berry55

niccad- thanks hun    Good luck with ur trigger- its all go now!!!!  I had a IL drip on friday- r u ment to feel any diff after it? i just feel normal....    xxx

Agate- i hope ur ok hun.... i have been worrying about you. I was dreaming about you lastnight!!!! xxxx

Peanuts- I think its a implantaion bleed!!!!!      

xxxx


----------



## Clarebaby

Good luck for today Berry!


----------



## berry55

thanks clarebaby xx


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## Clarebaby

I have just received my Humira, so I should take one injection now and the other in two weeks, but I may be away in two weeks so would take it between two and three weeks after the first.  Does it matter if second injection is slightly later, am I best to just get on and take the first one now anyway.

Sorry if this is stupid question but feeling a bit nervous!

Clare


----------



## ells

Morning ladies,

Berry good luck for this afternoon keep positive hun    you will have some beautiful little embies back with you soon. That will be the side effects from the prog, all normal hun.

CLS, I have had both IVIg and IL's through [email protected] its very easy to sort out they generally need 48 hours notice to arrange the drips as they have to get the px sent out to the nurse. You would need to speak to Jade, she's really good and does get things sorted out asap. You can get Dr G (or Akvil) to fax a px straight through to [email protected] which saves some faffing.

Niccard not long until you will be PUPO hunni. I have heard that the ARGC are very thorough, it must be nice being soooooooo well monitored. Good luck for the trigger hun.

Clare hun I would give Dr G a call and see what he says, I am not sure how strict the 2 weeks apart rule is. I had to take mine a week apart but I had 6 jabs and had to follow my crohns' doctors tx plan.

Agate  .

Hi to everyone else hope you are all okay.

Ells


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## Bling1975

Clarebaby - I was told to plan my injections so I would have exactly two weeks apart. As you haven't taken the first yet it is probably better to wait.


----------



## agate

Niccad: you probably don't need a 2nd ILs, but it MIGHT help and shouldn't harm anything.  It does need to be 7-14 days before ET to have most effect - so I guess if you are going to do it then you should get on with it.

Berry: good luck for today.

AFM: feeling pretty down. scan wasn't quite as reassuring as I wanted (don't want to go into details) - was worried by some of the OBs comments on it - hopefully it will turn out to be nothing... but its hard not to get upset - and still feeling so exhausted all the time - so going to have some more tests and more scans.  Have to wait 3 weeks for the next one though because he said it needs to be at least 2 weeks more development to see a difference.


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## Clarebaby

Oh Agate, 

I'm so sorry that you haven't been reassured   

But, they are going to keep a close eye on you and and do more tests, etc.  I know it's impossible telling you not to worry because of course you are going to.  Really hope that it's nothing too serious.  More of that positive thinking called for and some rest!


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## Mousky

Agate - I'm sorry to hear you're feeling so down    I hope the next weeks will fly by and you can be reassured all is well    

Berry - good luck for ET    

Niccad - I hope the trigger/ec is confirmed    

Sarah - I can totally relate to your frustration re waiting    We had our fresh IVF last September!!! And we really thought we're going for FET in Feb. But I was literally struggling with my thyroid and when it improved, I had the positive for C   With everything now I don't see how we can do it before August   And this, of course, IF I clear C which I'm doubting   I'm sorry for ranting, I know there are so many other things going on with everybody but it just seems to be one thing after the other...

CLS - good news on your TNF leveles   I'm also interested in saving every penny but I don't live in the UK so I cannot use [email protected]   

Ells - would you consider a private scan? no one should wait for that long   Glad to hear the bleeding has stopped   

Bling - I hope you have your results   I really don't think the Belgians are going to pay for any immune drug   They're already providing quite good IVF/FET for basically nothing so I don't want to push our luck   

Cath - wow, you must be so anxious   I hope you can speed things up   

afm, I'm going to ring Akvil to schedule the phone consult with Dr G. DH wants to participate, I don't know how, though   so I decided to wait. Ladies, I guess you all had immune tx on a fresh cycle, right? We're going for FET and I'm wondering if we should still go for full on immune tx. Obviously, I'm going to discuss this with Dr G but I was wondering if there was anyone in a similar situation. We have 3 day 3   that are supposed to be quiet good but there's always the risk they won't survive the thaw   

Mousky xx


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## agate

Mousky: Choice4 who's just had her baby and Cath34 who will be having her's soon both got pg on FET with full immune Tx.

don't know whether you can get any cheap day trip flights to any of the eastern block countries like Czeck republic where ILs is cheaper?


----------



## Mousky

Agate - thanks for the tip. I'll check it out but I still need to find out what I'll need. I'm still waiting for DH so we can sort out our consult   Anyway, I hope you're getting some rest and some pampering? We'll surely miss you around here but you just need to be well


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## Bling1975

Agate - do they do Ivig as well? Do you know any clinics to contact? It could be easier for me as well. Estonia would be even better, anyone who knows if they do it?


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## agate

I don't know - all I know is that the main IVF clinics in Czeck republic like Reprofit are supposed to do it cheaply.  My GUESS is that the drug cost for both ILS and IVIG would be the same as in the UK (ILs is only about £20 for the drugs and bits and pieces), but you would be saving on the £250ish cost of administering it by going somewhere where nursing costs are cheaper.  I guess you'd have to find out the names of some clinics in towns where flights are cheap to get to and email them?


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## berry55

Girls, I'm just in car coming home. I am pupo!!!!! Got 2 blastos on board 1x 4ba and 1x 4bb- none for freezing  

Agate- sending u lots of hugs xxxxxx


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## Clarebaby

Hi Agate

Still waiting for a return phone call from Dr G re my Humira quandry - is it ok to leave more than 2 weeks between injections - could you give me your opinion please?

Thanks


----------



## Pinpin

Hi girls,


Sorry I haven't done so great at posting on here recently but I am following and trying to keep up with everyone's progress.


Agate - I just wanted to say I am thinking of you and    that it turns out to be nothing and that the next 2 weeks fly by. I want everything to be good for you, you deserve it soooo much.


Choice4 - Congratulations hun !!!    You'll be a cracking mummy!


Niccad - Regarding your question re-intralipid I'd follow Agate's advice and maybe try and fit one in this afternoon?? It won't do any harm anyway as Agate said    Good luck with the scan this pm too you're in good hands    and i like that


Cath34 - have you managed to decide re-c section date? I really don't think a few days would make that much difference as they say anytime form 37 weeks onward is considered full term anyway but this is just my gut feeling not at all documented by any medical facts!


Ells - so sorry you had a fright but I am sure it will all get resorbed and you will go on to have a healthy pregnancy. The bleeding seems to happen to so many girls recently but thankfully it seems to rarely cause major long term issues.   


Hi to everyone else Berry, Musky, Clarebaby etc...


Love to all
Pinpin x


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## Clarebaby

Weyhey Berry, 

Congrats on being PUPO, what great little blasts to be carrying.        

Now, relax and get those positive vibes flowing!


----------



## Bling1975

Thanks Agate.

I got my test results now and I am devastated. The TNF-a looks very good, it is down to 18,6 from 31,4. But my LAD level is still terrible so I assume I have to cancel my cycle and wait until september to sort them out.

Before LIT:
T IgM: 1.0
T IgG: 1.5
B IgM: 9.8
B IgG: 13.9

After LIT:
T IgM: 1.0
T IgG: 2.7
B IgM: 13.9
B IgG: 20.6

What do you think, should I switch to donor or even pooled donor, or would one or two shots more of paternal do the trick?


----------



## agate

CB: I THINK that from a medical point of view leaving 3 weeks between shots is not going to be a problem - but I don't know how much it will complicate Dr G's trying to interpret your results afterwards as you won't have been following quite the normal protocol.  I assume taking it with you is completely impractical?  only most hotels do have fridges available (e.g., for diabetics) and I presume you've got a cold box kit from when it was sent to you?  Those kits are so good that apparently they will keep it a fridge temp for much more than 1 day.  My GUESS is it will be fine but it will slightly complicate doing your TNFa retest (I assume you are taking it for TNFa and not uNKs?) - but shouldn't really be an issue.

Berry: that's excellent!

Bling: very tricky.  It is still positive news though - it is going in the right direction (mine went up very slowly too - I never remeasured it after the 4th LIT but it was still down at 16ish after the 3rd) How soon is your cycle?  Just sms'd ratsy and louise to ask if they could ask Dr T for you - but they've already finished and left. 

Do you have time for 1 more paternal LIT before ET and then have another one 4 weeks after that?  Lots of ladies do need at least 3 LITs (I had 4 - so did other ladies that I can think of), and it is quite common to finish off your LIT in early pg rather than waiting for it to be perfect before you cycle... but the studies that have been done on it do usually have it done before Tx.  If you wait until pg, then its probably safer to stick with paternal (no new bugs) although of course lots of ladies continue to have donor during pg - so its not such a big risk.  Additionally, if you wait until during stimms you are probably going to be on steroids which can suppress the effectiveness of LIT at raising LAD.

I'd be tempted to try and get Dr T's opinion and ask him whether, especially if you can squeeze it in before your Tx you can have paternal+donor (pooled together).  If your DQa are (a,b)you (c,b)DH - then I think the ideal donor would be someone who is (c,d) - so they are the same as your DH for the unmatched allele but different for the matched one - but it might depend on whether he can get you a donor with that DQa.  Otherwise, I THINK doing paternal+donor with an unmatched donor is kind of like simulating that 'perfect' donor.  Pooled donor would basically be getting whatever donors you can get on the day and hope that the 'perfect' DQa is in the mix somewhere.  But I have never got Dr T's opinion on this, so I don't know whether my guesses on this are right.  

Basically though, I don't think there is a right answer - if you want to make absolutely sure that you've got this covered as a cause for your losses, then I THINK you should try and get at least 1 more paternal+donor or donor pool before you stimm and then retest aiming for another (probably paternal but see what Dr T says) in early pg.    But if you want to go ahead with your planned Tx and aim for (probably paternal) LIT asap on BFP and then probably a month later - that wouldn't be a bad choice as I see it - but you wouldn't know for sure what your LAD had done.


----------



## Mousky

Berry - well done   

Bling - I hope you can work it out, somehow   

We'll have our   consult tomorrow and I'm trying to organize my thoughts/questions. We still need to do the karyotyping test. I've been "shopping around" and the lab here in BE will do it (we might get a refund from our insurance) but I need a px. Is it OK to ask one to Dr G? If he wants me on Humira, I'll need to do the TB test as well. Does anyone know the price for Q? TB test? I'm sure we'll have to be in London again at some point so I could try to get this test done. Well, first things first   I still need to hear the Dr   

Mousky xx


----------



## agate

Mousky: in the UK we don't need a Px for tests - but we do need to give the name of a referring doc -as the test results can only be given to a doctor (and not to a patient).  I am sure Dr G would be able to do you a note that says you need the test though.  You can get the TB gold at TDL next to Dr G's in London - I think its something like £60-£80.  You can phone TDL and ask for their price and then ask Akbil for the price if you pay Dr G in advance instead (bear in mind if you don't go through Dr G you have to add on the cost of TDLs charge for drawing bloods).


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## berry55

Thanks girls. For the 1st time my clinic gave me a hcg injection staright after ET. Pregnal i think it was called... not sure. what the heck is that?? xxx


----------



## agate

berry: at this stage it does the same thing as progesterone - sustains the lining for long enough for the embryo to get established and start producing enough hormones of its own to keep the lining.  Lots of clinics in the US use it like that - but it will mean it will take longer before the HCG is out of your system so that a pregnancy test will be genuine.  Even more reason why you will need two HCG blood tests 2 days apart starting on about 13 DPO (= 13-5 = 8 days from today) to make sure that the HCG is going up (from an implantation) and not down (left over from your shot).  My GUESS is that your clinic will probably suggest testing later than that (by peestick) to make sure the shot is gone?  but you will probably still be better off testing earlier by blood because AS ITS GOING TO BE A BFP you will need to be speaking to Dr G asap on BFP in case he wants you to get another ILS asap (I think he will say you should have one)... not sure when the weekends fall etc though and its better to know sooner so you can deal with getting your Px and [email protected] etc


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## berry55

agate- ahhh ok, i understand. I have to have a blood test at my clinic on the 28th which is 15days post EC. What should i do i dont think my clinic will do it any early for me. xx


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## agate

I think that is a friday - so I don't know exactly when you would get the result?  If you got it back on friday aft, then spoke to Dr G and the Px got faxed to Jade, you'd probably not get anything sorted out with [email protected] until tuesday or wednesday... should still be ok.

otherwise, maybe you could persuade your GP to do one for you on the wednesday - if you got that result on thursday then you'd be able to speak to Dr G on thursday and hopefully have your ILs lined up for monday assuming all is still good when you get the official result on friday?

There won't be a huge difference which way you do it so long as you can get hold of Dr G promptly and [email protected] are speedy.


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## Bling1975

Agate, thanks for your thoughts, they are as always wise. 

It is a hard decision but in the end it is just to stressful for me to try ans squeeze in a trip to London for Ivig and one to Athens for LIT as well as injections daily at home and scans every three days over the next 18 days before my transfer. So we are going to postpone. I didn't manage to get hold of my doctor for clexane and prednisolon either as he is on holiday this week so I was already very stressed out. 

The stress of all this immune stuff is sometimes to much. I wish I at least lived in London so it was easy to see Dr G and get the treatments. I have so much to do at work as well and I have been away so much this spring. But I assume I will go to Athens or London for my summer holiday this year depending on what Dr G can offer.

Can you do LIT and Ivig at the same time?

Does anyone know when Dr G and dr T will be closed for the summer?


----------



## berry55

Agate- thanks for the advice hun. Usually with my clinic i would get the blood result late in the afternoon- poss after4.30pm... so on a friday thats not so great- so it would all prob be the monday IL would get sorted for me. I did just have  ILdrip on friday there... so thats not too long ago- so maybe it would b ok. I really hope ur ok, i keep dreaming about you. I'm going to come and visit you! that is it!!! lol xxxx


----------



## ells

Agate    I really hope that all will be okay in a couple of weeks time.  It must be very stressful not to have the reassurance.  I    that all willl be well.

Berry congrats on being PUPO      .

Hope everyone else is okay    >

Ells


----------



## Diane72

Gosh, lots and lots happening.

Agate, sending you all my     

Berry, congratulations on being PUPO   

Peanuts, still sending you   

Ells, sending you lots of fairy dust too   

I have a horrible cold and I am off to bed but sending everyone lots of hugs   

Diane x


----------



## vw22

Hi everyone, I have been reading but so disappointed about my last transfer that wasn't sure which thread I belonged on anymore so havn't posted...

You may remember we have had 14 attempts at transfers (IUI, IVF and DEIVF) pretty much constantly for the last 3 years in 3 countries and with endless treatments trying to find out why no pregnancy. On the last try with DE I did the IVIg, pred and clexane and had a negative and it was suggested to move on to donor sperm too.

So last month, as we were getting married, we decided to have month off and just enjoy ourselves first! It has been a hectic month and I have been far from thinking about treatments or being relaxed and even further from a brazil nut, glass of pineapple juice or detoxing lifestyle I usually have.

Anyway, when I did the last trigger injection for the last treatment last month I had a couple of vials left over. So I did an average of which day of the month (on all the months over the last year) the scan always showed I should trigger, and did it myself! But I didn't continue the clexane as I talked to Agate about doing, just because I was too fed up and started weaning off the pred. 


Well I tested at home yesterday and there it was for the first time ever in a natural attempt and at 43 years old, a faint line. I can finally write BFP!!!!!! Later a blood test and it was 259. 


We are both totally shocked, and can't believe it and know we are a long way still away from our baby but for the first time in a long time we have had implantation. I am realistic that I am older and they are my eggs that have fertilised, so I have a long road ahead.

I don't need to tell anyone of you by the way how I feel, as you will already know, or if not, be able to imagine it...so I won't go on.

I will never know why this has worked but it could be the immune drugs are still hanging around in my system. I am still weaning off pred and am down to 10 mg...so maybe that is enough to help? 


Before I try to get hold of Dr G, Agate do you think he will say I should up my pred back to the normal 25mg I started on, stay put at 10mg or keep weaning off.


Also is a figure of 28.30 an ok number for projestrone...obviously I havn't had any pessaries or help so don't have a clear idea if this is good or bad!


I have just realised the utrogetan pessaries have soya in them and I have an intolerance of this. These have been a consistent thing in all my treatments so who knows maybe this has been affecting things too.


Hopefully this post gives others hope too. This journey has been the hardest thing ever and I admire anyone that has to go through even a fraction of what we have.


vx


----------



## vw22

Sorry Agate, just caught up with your news and can see you have enough to think about. Please don't worry about answering my questions. Take care of yourself and I hope the next few days pass quickly with some reassuring results ahead. vx


----------



## mag108

just a quick post from me ladies, have been reading and keeping up but not posting much


Berry: congrats on being PUPO! Take it easy now!


Agate: sorry that the scan was less reassuring than you would have like. I hope whatever it is settles/gets sorted and in the meantime you get to not worry too much.


vw22: what fantastic news! Delighted for you hun!


XXX to everyone


----------



## fi7

hi

Agate thinking of you - try and relax but i know that is hard. I know i worried on everything and in the end they sent us for a heart scan on our DD which helped.  But all was fine, they are fighters.

VW22 - fantastic news, so happy for you.  I was on steroids 25 through my first trimester with my DD so until you get any professional input i would go back up to that dose.  I do not think it can harm, and I think it will protect the pregnancy.  (only my thoughts though - i am no expert)

berry - fab news,  thinking of you 

big hugs to all

fi


----------



## Klingon Princess

Quick question... someone said a few pages back that intralipids are quite cheap, around £20 and its the nursing care that costs the money?

What exactly is involved with Intralipids?  Can any nurse or doctor do it?  Just wondering as I have an uncle who is a doctor and it would save alot of money if he could do it.


----------



## agate

vw22 said:


> Before I try to get hold of Dr G, Agate do you think he will say I should up my pred back to the normal 25mg I started on, stay put at 10mg or keep weaning off.
> 
> Also is a figure of 28.30 an ok number for projestrone...obviously I havn't had any pessaries or help so don't have a clear idea if this is good or bad!


congratulations! I would GUESS Dr G will tell you either to stay put or go back up but not to carry on weaning off.

progesterone is measured in different units by different labs

there is a good chart here:

http://www.repro-med.net/repro-med-site2/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=25rogesterone-levels-during-pregnancy&catid=2ages-ett&Itemid=33

but you might need to use the conversion factor of 3.18 to convert from ng/ml to nmol/L (or vice versa).

KP: any doctor or nurse should be able to do it for you - they will need to be able to get their hands on a canula, giving kit and IV bags of saline, 50ml syringes + needles and a drip stand. they need to have adrenaline shots on standby (in case you got an allergic reaction) and need to have a thermometer and sphyg for monitoring your temp and BP during the drip - but basically its as simple as 1) doc writes your prescription for the intralipids 2) you fill the script and buy the intralipids 3) the nurse starts with a 200-500ml IV bag of saline, withdraws 100ml of it by syringe and discards it 4) draws up 100ml of intralipids and injects that into the bag of saline 5) canulates you and sets up the drip 6) gives it slowly over 1-2 hours and monitors your temp and BP during the drip for any warning signs of anaphylactic shock 7) often the drip is finished by washing through with a small bag of extra saline (but Dr G doesn't do that). So any doc or nurse should be able to do that if they have the kit and if it doesn't invalidate their insurance or something like that.

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## JasmineX

Thanks Ladies (Mousky, Sarah and Agate) for the advice about the C test. In the end it turns out I am still so ill with this cold that I am off work for a 3rd day in a row tomorrow, so can get my sample picked up by Fedex no problem.

Had another drama this morning trying to get the sample INTO the pot, and then accidentally tipping out the liquid the pot comes with    Luckily Agate helped me out by suggesting I could top back up with sterile saline solution (Thank you   )  and I got a late e-mail reply  from Locus Medicus confirming the same - phew!

Sorry for the rambling post, I just thought it might help anyone else who ever ends up in the same predicament.

vw - congratulations! what an inspiring post. thanks for sharing, and all the best for your pregnancy   

Jasmine
XXXXX


----------



## -Starflower-

Wow, a lot has been going on since I last made an appearance here   

Any news on when Dr G might start providing LIT?


----------



## berry55

Hi girls,

I'm feeling really sick today- i'm wondering if it could be the pregnyl injection i had yesterday. I was given 750iu,,, what you think?? I feel like i have Morning sickness.. well from what i remember when i was preg last year. 

xxxxx


----------



## Cozy

Agate,

sorry to read your scan has given you cause for concern, I really hope it is nothing to worry about and they are just being over cautious or unecessarily insensitive with their comments. 2 weeks is a long time to wait if you think there may be a problem. I really hope the tests show everything is ok.    

Take care   

Cozy


----------



## Cozy

VW,

fantastic news on your BFP. Really pleased for you... just shows miracles do happen.

I hope your pregnancy goes smoothly

Cozy


----------



## vw22

Thanks Cozy, Jas, and Mag for your kind and encouraging words!
Fi-7 thanks too. Just out of interest were you only on pred or also doing clexane? 
Agate, thanks for the link, it looks like I am in a good range and not to low which is a relief.
Will keep in touch and thanks again, vx


----------



## sarahh

Just a quick 1 - vw wot gr8 news 4 u hope all continues smoothly. 

Agate I sincerely hope u manage 2 get thro the nxt 2 wks without 2 much stress. Wd it b worth getting a 2nd opinion 2 save the wait? Sending u lots of hugs. 

Berry well done on yr lovely blasts hon. Perhaps the sickness is due 2 all the drugs / anxiety over last few wks, rest up & take it easy.

Sarah x


----------



## Bling1975

Agate - I really hope everything looks fine on your next scan and that you and your baby is ok.

vw - how wonderful, it must have been a nice surprise.

Berry - I hope your little ones are making themselves comfortable and decide to move in.


I actually managed to get an answer from Dr T really quickly and he recommended 1 x pooled donor LIT and then retest to see how it goes. I am now booked in for the 1 of june. Is anyone else going then?


----------



## fi7

hi 
VW.-This was 3 years ago now, but i was on Pred 30mg for circa 12 weeks,  clexane right up to the last few weeks, cyclogest circa 12 weeks, and i had one ivig, but more because i wanted it rather than it was strictly recommended. but it all worked when previously it i had lost alot of pregnancies.

berry - i hope you feel better but don't worry re the sickness, take it as a sign that your body is reacting to something.

good luck

fi


----------



## agate

Thanks ladies.  

Berry: the nausea is probably due to a combination of the HCG and the progesterone - but if it gets very bad and particularly if you get breathless, can't pee, get a temperature, get very bloated... or anything else that gives you cause for concern - you must ring your clinic because it could be OHSS (typically that gets worse if you do get pg) - as long as its treated you will be fine, and if you do actually get OHSS past ET its normally pretty certain that you will be pg... so although you may feel sick as a dog it has an upside.


----------



## Clarebaby

Hi All

Just for info, spoke to Dr G yesterday and he said that the Humira shots could be 2.5 weeks apart but not as long as 3.0 weeks.  

Have a good day everyone.


----------



## berry55

thanks for the replys girls. This i'm starting to go crazy already lol xxx


----------



## Mousky

Hello everyone,

We just had our call and Dr G suggested Steroids/Clexane/Aspirin and "maybe" some extra progesterone, Humira, LIT and probably ILs "if I want to".
I need to do the TB test asap - looking for a place here in BE - HS and C&S SA and retest C.

I understand I need to take the Humira shots 2 weeks apart and LIT 2-4 weeks apart and they cannot be taken together. The same for ILs.

Now my odd question: can anyone guess what time frame I'm looking into? I'd like to be away from Europe for 3-4 weeks and I'm wondering how impossible it would be to do it in between shots/drips.

Love to all.


----------



## Mousky

Sorry, my post was incomplete   

For the ones who took Humira and retested TNF-a, how long did you have to wait to do it?

VW - congrats on your BFP! I hope it all goes well   

Berry - hang in there    

Bling - Good luck! I hope pooled donor does it's thing   

Mousky xx


----------



## Lotus74

Hi ladies. Hope you don't mind me joining you. I recently saw Dr G for our L2 test results and will be doing immune treatment with him. Thanks (again) Agate for your help on interpreting results. Hope all goes well at your next scan.

Mousky - the only thing I've read about the timing of Humira and LIT is that they need to be at least 7 days apart from each other. I was told to retest my TNF-a 7-10 days after second Humira injection.


I'm still not sure when I'll be doing the Humira and LIT as I don't want to waste money on doing them too early if my Hidden C retest comes back positive and I need more antibiotics.

xx


----------



## Bling1975

Mousky - I hope so too 

I was told 4-6 weeks after LIT and 10-14 days after Humira for the retest. It really takes a lot of time, especially if you have to travel all the time for tests and treatments. I had my first appointment with Dr G in january and I was supposed to cycle now in june if my results had been good. Dr G said 2-3 months for immunes, but then I think everything has to run really smooth.


----------



## Mousky

Thanks girls   


Lotus - Dr G told me Humira effects would last up to 6 months. And I also read somewhere LIT effects last for a few months as well. I have the same concern you have re C being positive again - I'm convinced it'll be positive   


Bling - you're doing a fresh cycle? we're doing FET although I'm not sure it makes that much difference re immune tx. Dr G did say it would depend on how far we wanted to go (given the risk of the embies not surviving the thaw) but we're willing to take the risk and go for the full immune protocol. I still need to see about ILs though. 


I guess I'm the only one in Belgium so this probably doesn't concern anyone but I MIGHT be able to do the TB gold and the karyotyping here. I'm still quite suspicious about it as they're saying they'll accept my "referral" from an english doctor but maybe this will only be a problem with the insurance


----------



## Bling1975

Mousky - no, we were supposed to do FET as well but the planning took a long time. We managed to get our first LIT in march, and then again in april and then some Humira and I just got our retest results yesterday. We only have frosties as my husband got cancer two years ago and didn't manage to freeze any sperm before surgery. Luckily we had 3 blasts left in the freezer from an earlier IVF.


----------



## ells

Mousky I hope you find somewhere to do your tests.  On the TNFa retest, Dr G told me two weeks from the last shot and it took about 3-4 days to come back on the results - much quicker then the full l2's.  If it helps I started my immune tx about 2 months before we started tx but we didnt get a chance to do the LIT due to timings, work etc.  When we tried to get px's in Poland they were very fussy with the private px's they had to be very clear and they prefer it typed not handwritten, we were asked to get them transfered to a Polish px from a Polish doctor/hospital    .  In the end we didnt bother - we were trying to arrange IL's and IVIg but too much hassle and far to complicated!

welcome to the thread Lotus

Berry we will keep you sane - you need to go and find some good comedy films to watch that should help take your mind off things for a bit    >

Hi to everyone else hope you are all okay    >

Ells


----------



## ratsy

Hi girls 

Just got back from athens had a brilliant time went with louise and had such a laugh 

Agate - hope your ok and your resting up and your LO is fine   

Peanuts - hope your not going crazy on the 2ww not long now 

Berry - hope your nausea eases off and you feel better soon 

Ells- hopw you and twins doing well 

Hope all girls i havnt mentioned are well   

R x


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

Lotus, Mousky, Jasmine, here's hoping that the C test will come back negative for you all   

VW, how inspiring, it's wonderful to hear miracles can happen, truly wonderful   

Berry, some good advice from agate, take care of yourself and any worry about OHSS call your clinic

Bling, well done on getting a response from Dr. T, which method did you use to get a hold of him, I should probably think about donor LIT

Ratsy, glad you enjoyed Athens! 

Sending hugs to everyone else, still totally blocked up with the cold   

Dx


----------



## Bling1975

Diane - I just sent him an email on [email protected] late at night and got a reply in the morning, he even answered my follow up questions and confirmed my appointment 

I think he tries to reply if you have a question about the treatment, if you just want to make an appointment he is not so good at confirming it.

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## Mousky

Diane - hope you'll feel better soon   


Ratsy - I'm glad you had a great time in Greece   


Bling - I've seen your signature now    it must have been really tough     I hope your DH is well now and that you can work things out before you can have your blastos back    


Ells - so you didn't have LIT but you had IVIG an ILs? I'm so glad to hear it worked    


Another question, for the ones who retested TNF-a, how much was the retest? I'm trying to make a rough estimate of our costs.


Night everyone


----------



## sal2

hello, Im new to this thread. I met dr g today for the first time and although we have 2k less ,Im glad we met him.  Ive had 3 m/c then 1yr6mths of nothing, then ivf here in Ireland ,had some chicago tests and put me on pred,clexane ( not as detailed as tests I got today), bfn then we went to UK and did pgd and in March we did cgh and had 2 great blasts but bfn. So my clinic wanted me tested for thrombophilia and hence over to UK again to Dr g. 
I was hoping to do another cgh this month but will hold off and wait for results. I have to do clamidia test and got a swab done and dh gave a sample to see for infection.
Its alot to take in and you all seem to be well up on it all. The thing thats getting me is all the re testing etc, havent got a clue. It means Id have to come over again to uk, I presume if I have to get intralipids I can test here in Ireland.I have Dr Beers book so Im trying to get to grips with it all. I could keep up with doc today but of course dh was totally lost   
Also his LIT clinic is the first of June, so if I do have a dq alpha match or is it called LAD we wont have to go to Greece.
Hope to chat to you all soon


----------



## mag108

Sal: welcome to the thread (I am from Ireland too though live in UK); There are other women living in Ireland on here too so maybe they can offer some tips too. The immunes stuff is a alot to take in, I remember being totally overwhelmed by it all. Thing is you do get used to it all and get your head around what you need to know for you. It's alot to do especially that you and others have to travel here. HAving said that Dr G is the main guy so for anyone not living in London, it's a journey! Keep in mind that you can do tel consults with him, for when you get results etc. He and Ackvil dont reall remember where we all live and will easily suggest coming to the clinic for appts, when most stuff can be dealt with over the phone.


Lots of special women on here offer help, understanding and support


x


----------



## Rose39

Sal2 - welcome hunny! Hope that you get some answers that help you with your next tx.   

Berry55 - how are you feeling today hunny?   

Agate - hoping that you and LO are ok   

Bling - sending you big hugs... what a tough time you've had. Hope that things turn around for you soon.   

I have a dumb question I'm hoping you can help me with - where is the cheapest place to buy humira from? 

I had my follow up consult with Dr G and he said that although none of my immune issues are really bad (several borderline and high TNF-A results), it's the cumulative results that may be causing my tx to fail. So I'm going to be on humira, thyroxine, intralipids, steroids, clexane and aspirin for my next tx and it looks like I'll have to delay my tx from July until August (I'll be having a FET) as I'll need to allow time to have the humira and thyroxine and do the re-tests to see if they have worked. Part of me wonders whether I should be making all this effort for a FET cycle when the chances of it working are so much lower, and what if the embies don't survive the thaw? But it would be stupid to go ahead without the immunes when I have known issues. Lots of saving up needed for all the extra drugs!  My hidden C test did come back negative though, so that's a good thing!

Rose xx


----------



## Mousky

Rose - I'm also doing FET and I've had the same concerns. We just think (for us) it makes no sense to go for FET without immunes as it might mean the embryos won't have a fair chance. We know this isn't "proved" except for all the babies born after immune tx but I guess you just have to go with your feelings. Lucky you, you're negative for C   

Sal - this is good news about Dr G and LIT. Is there a waiting list or something? I cannot understand why he didn't tell me about it yesterday. Maybe I didn't ask   Yes, it's a lot to take in but as Mag said it gets better or at least I hope it does   

Mag -   there.

I hope everyone is well


----------



## Lotus74

Morning all. Rose, I will also be going for FET and have those same worries. I feel the same as Mousky in wanting to give the embie a fair chance (and just cross everything that it thaws ok!!). Dr G told me [email protected] was cheapest for Humira, but I haven't rung round yet to check prices.

Akvil has sent my TB result in the post so will hopefully arrive today... actually I'm not sure what I am looking for... should the TB result be positive or negative to let me take Humira

Mousky - yes, there is a waiting list for Dr G's LIT clinic. I put my name down yesterday, but had only heard about it on FF - not from Dr G.

Hope everyone else is well. xx


----------



## berry55

you girls are prob gonna think i have lost the plot. But i wa attacked by a MASSIVE wasp in my bathroom! I had 2 run and scream! Do u think i will have upset my embryos?  xx


----------



## Pinpin

Hi Berry, I just read your latest post and had to reply ! NOOOOOOOO you have not upset your embryos by running away from the wasp screaming. In my 2 ww I remember my MIL and FIL announced to me over the phone that my SIL was pregnant with her second child and once i put the phone down I cried and screamed so hard my gut was hurting so bad that I thought I'd have compromised my chances of my embryos implanting! As you can see it didn't!


I think it is perfectly normal though to be worrying about every single thing though, you just need to be reassured that's all. Don't worry about the wasp adventure your embryos are fine   


Love
Pinpin x


----------



## Desi

VW: wow amazing what a story, well done, fingers and legs crossed..  
    Congratulations, take good care of yourself.

Ells: you got pregnant without LIT, Intralipids and IVIg?? What do you think was different for you than the other attempts? The pred?

Rose39: Cheapest to buy Humira a couple of weeks ago was at [email protected], it was £759 (including 2% credit card charge, but if you have a debit card this does not apply). It needs to shipped cool though and kept cool.

Pinpin: only 48 days left.... countdown time for you. Relax and rest as much as possible.

All others, all the best!

Desi.
Xxx


----------



## berry55

pinpin- thanks for your reply    U have made me feel much better. I do feel crazy when i actually think these things could change the outcome... but just cant help thinking it. Only 48 days left!!!!!!!!!! you must b sooooooooooooooo sooooooooooo excited!!!!!! 

Berry xxx


----------



## agate

Rose39 said:


> I have a dumb question I'm hoping you can help me with - where is the cheapest place to buy humira from?
> 
> I had my follow up consult with Dr G and he said that although none of my immune issues are really bad (several borderline and high TNF-A results), it's the cumulative results that may be causing my tx to fail.


Often, its healthcare at home. contact is Jade Herrington 08003285323 - but its worth trying places like Asda and morrisons, maybe Fazeley pharmacy and Rigcharm just in case. Whoever you get it from - you need to make certain of the arrangements for delivery - it has to be kept refrigerated so it can only be delivered in a special polystyrene ice box thing and you need to get it into the fridge when you get it home - it is inactivated if it gets warm.

Re 'cumulative effects' of having several issues going against you - I think of it like this:

imagine a really fertile, healthy couple in their 20s with no issues at all - they might have say 100 'fertility points' and if they BD at the right time of the month, will probably get pg naturally within 1 or 2 cycles

then you start losing points for all fertility issues:
being older
being overweight
smoking/other lifestyle factors
having fewer sperm
having poor quality sperm
having poorer quality eggs e.g., because of PCOS/other hormonal imbalances
having physical uterine anomalies e.g.,scarring,septa, fibroids, polyps etc
having poorer quality of endometrium e.g., due to impaired blood flow, or low estrogen
having issues related to inflammation e.g., high TNFa, high NKa, uNKa, DQa matches, endometriosis, infections
having a poor ability to make protective blocking antibodies
having inadequate progesterone/other hormones
(not an exhaustive list, but you get the picture)

so the more issues you have, you lose more and more 'points', until your odds of getting pg naturally or with fertility Tx get lower and lower, but you still might be lucky if you do enough cycles at these low odds... but conversely, couples can have terrible lifestyle factors (overweight, smoking, drinking etc) but if everything else is good they are still pretty fertile because they've only lost a few 'points' and will still get pregnant in not many cycles.

So the way, I imagine to tackle it is that some factors that you are just stuck with because they can't be changed e.g., age, but if you chip away at the ones that can be (tackle your immunes, improve your LAD, sort out any physical factors that can be sorted, up your hormone levels where needed, be a perfect example of good lifestyle factors etc etc) you will be adding back some points and hopefully it will boost the odds in your favour so that fertility Tx does work for you within a bearable number of cycles.

Lotus: you want your TB result to be negative (no TB). If its positive - you need to see a TB doc via your GP to get antibiotic treatment to kill the TB before you can start humira. If its indeterminate - that means that the test wasn't positive, but your white cell response wasn't good enough to be sure that the 'negative' result is true - you have to do the test again and hope your white cells are up to snuff next time. If it keeps coming back indeterminate, you can probably still take humira as you are unlikely to have TB - but you need to be monitored more carefully if you get any TB symptoms - so your GP will need to be aware etc - and if you are in a high risk group (lived with someone with TB etc) your GP might suggest you get X rays for TB just in case - all stuff you'd have to discuss with Dr G if you fall in that category.

Berry: calm down!!!! 1 little shot of adrenaline is hardly going to matter now is it? Its about the overall picture of how hospitable your body is now to those embies - and you've had a lot of help getting that into a better place than you've ever been on Tx before (your TNFa is massively better than before etc). So put your feet up and forget about having 1 little tizzy.


----------



## berry55

agate- thanks hun. You are right. If you want i'm in chatroom- yes i'm bored lol xxx


----------



## agate

Berry: ok... think I need to go throw up first... but will be there in a few mins.


----------



## Desi

Agate you made me laugh on this horrible day!!!!! Thanks.
Hope you feel better again!

I posted in the C-thread, my test came back positive, am gutted!

Take care.
Desi.
xxx


----------



## CLS

Hi Ladies,

I need some pretty urgent advice about the Chlamydia, HVS and C&S tests that Dr. G has some of his patients do, and was hoping one of you could help me.

*C-TEST:*

From what I read, the preferred day to take the sample is Day 2 of your cycle. That's fine as my Day 2 is tomorrow.

Do I need to wait until Monday to send the sample via Fedex so it arrives in Greece on a work day? If so, would it be a problem that it would be 3 days between sample and sending it off (ie. Is there a maximum number of days it can be stored before being sent?)

What is the normal duration of the course of antibiotics that you have to have if your test is positive? I think I read somewhere that it's 6 weeks - is that correct?

*My HVS & my husband's C&S tests:*

We had these done at our GP and I've sent the results to Dr. G. He's now left me a message saying we need to check if both the HVS and hubby's C&S have included a check for 'microplasma and uriplasma'. Has anyone else had their tests done by their GP and come across this? 

Dr. G also asks to check if they tested for any sensitivity to antibiotics.

When Dr. G gave me the list of the tests required (HVS & C&S), he didn't mention anything specifically about checking for uriplasma, microplasma or sensitivity to antibiotics. Are these not included as part of the standard tests??


Any feedback would be much appreciated.

CS


----------



## agate

CLS said:


> Do I need to wait until Monday to send the sample via Fedex so it arrives in Greece on a work day? If so, would it be a problem that it would be 3 days between sample and sending it off (ie. Is there a maximum number of days it can be stored before being sent?)
> 
> What is the normal duration of the course of antibiotics that you have to have if your test is positive? I think I read somewhere that it's 6 weeks - is that correct?
> 
> *My HVS & my husband's C&S tests:*
> 
> We had these done at our GP and I've sent the results to Dr. G. He's now left me a message saying we need to check if both the HVS and hubby's C&S have included a check for 'microplasma and uriplasma'. Has anyone else had their tests done by their GP and come across this?
> 
> Dr. G also asks to check if they tested for any sensitivity to antibiotics.
> 
> When Dr. G gave me the list of the tests required (HVS & C&S), he didn't mention anything specifically about checking for uriplasma, microplasma or sensitivity to antibiotics. Are these not included as part of the standard tests??


the menstrual sample can be up to about a week old when it is tested in greece. Its not absolutely necessary to do it on day 2 - just a day when there is plenty of flow. you can keep it in the fridge if you need to until you send it.

the course tends to be 25 days but then you have to wait for your 2nd AF before you can retest the menstrual blood test to make sure the C is gone.

different labs do their swab tests different ways. some need a separate swab for Mplasma and Uplasma (and they usually need a separate swab for C and gonorrhea). So its something you'd have to ask the lab that ran the tests (unless your GP knows).

If the tests are done by culture, then you might expect them to test for sensitivity to antibiotics - but again you'd have to ask what the lab's policy is (obviously they can only test sensitivity if they do find some bugs). If the tests are done by pcr - I don't THINK they can test sensitivity. So I think you need to go back and ask the questions via your GP.


----------



## Clarebaby

Often, its healthcare at home. contact is Jade Herrington 08003285323 - but its worth trying places like Asda and morrisons, maybe Fazeley pharmacy and Rigcharm just in case.  Whoever you get it from - you need to make certain of the arrangements for delivery - it has to be kept refrigerated so it can only be delivered in a special polystyrene ice box thing and you need to get it into the fridge when you get it home - it is inactivated if it gets warm.



Hi All,

I'm worried now Agate.  My Humira was despatched on Friday for a Saturday delivery but due to a courier cock up I didn't get it until Tuesday.  It still felt cold when I got it and I put it straight in the fridge, do you think it is ok to take?

If it's not one thing it's another


----------



## agate

CB: the fact that it felt cold seems like a good sign, but is it worth phoning Jade to check with her? She must know how long the shipping container used by [email protected] is certified to stay cold enough for http://www.laminarmedica.com/_documents/en/Chilltherm.pdf - you can see that different containers are supposed to stay cold for different lengths of time - and I think the one used by [email protected] is similar to these, but it doesn't seem obviously to be one of the ones shown in that brochure. If it took from thursday to tuesday you could be looking at 96 hours which does seem to be quite a long time?

My assumption is that if it gets warm it wouldn't do you any harm but I guess it might not contain all the active ingredient its supposed to. Hopefully Jade can either put your mind at rest or organise another shipment if it was obviously a courier cock up.

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## ells

Hi Ladies,

Berry  I think I would have reacted in the same way  . I am sure your little embies are safe and snug and making a nice home for themselves as we speak. Remember the Mantra *THIS HAS WORKED YOU ARE PREGNANT .*

Peanuts - how are you doing hun? Have you done any sneaky early tests?  ?? 

Desi, hun the only thing we didnt have was the lit. We had everything else, and I am sure it was a combination of getting my crohns under control and Dr G marvellous medicine. We also had blasts transfered and I am sure that helpd too.

Pinpin great to hear from you, I bet you are starting to get excited now, the count down is beginning.

Diane, I hope you feel better soon.  .

Agate how are you? I hope that you are okay and LO will be fine  .

SarahH hows the humira shots going?

Deegirl, hope you are well hun, not long now until you start TX?

Niccard, did you get your drips sorted out?

CB I would definitely give Jade a ring, not worth chancing it. As Agate said its prob fine but if for any reason they left it out and it got warm before the cooled it down again you wouldnt want to waste the money IYSWIM.

Hi to everyone else  hope you are all okay.

We are off to see Dr G tomorrow to get our retest results and to chat to Dr G about the bleeding episode last week (thankfully all clear since yesterday but it has only be brown blood since Friday and what you would call spotting). We are hoping that Dr G will do a scan tomorrow. Will anyone else be about? Our appointment is at 12.

Ells


----------



## Desi

Dear girls,

I am wondering if some of you have had assisted hatching as well?
It has been adviced to us for our next 2 IVF cycles (if our next FET is not successful).
In Dr. Beer's book it is also recommended to ladies with immunes and with a high TNF (mine is 47,2......).

Have a nice evening all!
xxx


----------



## agate

we had AH on day 3s.


----------



## Peanuts

Hi girls

VW - wow, congratulationson your BFP, thats fabulous news      Hope you're taking it easy and getting the help you need form DrG.

Agate -   hope you're doing ok hun, and the nnext coupel of weeks fly past until your scan and its able to put your mind at ease    

Berry - All I can think about is you running around flapping with the big wasp!    I'm sure your embies enjoyed the wee bit of excitment!   If this is waht you're like after a couple of days, what are you going to be like on your 2nn week of 2ww     Hope you've got your feet up now and are taking it easy.

Ells - good luck with DrG appt and retest tomorrow    Glad things seem to be settling down and hoping that DrG can scan you and help put you mind at ease too   

AFM - have been going slightly mad over the last few days - up and down like a yo-yo.  Tuesday I was convinced AF was on her way and resigned myself it was over, then seemed to be really hopefully on Wed, and today has been a bit of both.  Please don't sout, but finally gave in to the pee stick temptation this morning!    We got a very faint positve - so was then convinced it was a biochem as I was sure AF was on her way still.  Seem to have been getting a bit more hopeful as the day has gone on, just hoping that I can survive OTD tomorrow without ending up in a padded cell!      

Will let you know how I get on, but just wanted to say a big thank you for all your support and advice over my cycle, it has really made things easier.  SO nice to know I've got so many lovely FF's out ther - big hugs   

Dxx


----------



## CLS

Thanks so much for your great feedback on the tests Agate - I really appreciate the fast and very comprehensive reply.

I spoke to the GP and she said that the microplasma and the uriplasma are not routinely tested and need to be specified on the form that goes with the samples.  So I guess it's a good note for anyone else who is doing the HVS & C&S test (for DH) via your GP rather than Dr. G's office (ie) check if he specifically wants them to test the microplasma and uriplasma for both you and your DH/P.

In regards to the HVS C&S test, she confirmed that the 'sensitivity to antibiotics' test that Dr. G was looking for is only applied if the sample shows any sign of culture. Otherwise, the test is not required which makes total sense.

So after all that, my poor DH had to produce yet more samples (to be retested) at the last minute before he rushed out the door to fly to Africa for work for the next 4 weeks!

Fun and games!

Am running late myself so will sign off and wish everyone a lovely balmy spring-soon-to-be-summer evening!

Thanks again Agate, much appreciated.

CS


----------



## agate

CLS said:


> In regards to the HVS C&S test, she confirmed that the 'sensitivity to antibiotics' test that Dr. G was looking for is only applied if the sample shows any sign of culture. Otherwise, the test is not required which makes total sense.


exactly, they can't test whether the bugs you have are killed off by a particular antiB unless they manage to grow some bugs in the culture test.
They have to take the sample, put it in culture medium, incubate it, see what grows, identify it and then splodge it with common antiBs to see what kills it best... totally logical
and if they test by pcr - they are just looking for the DNA of the bugs so I don't THINK they will have enough/alive bugs to test.


----------



## ells

Peanuts  (  ) that sounds very  . I hope that you have some beautiful lines or a cross in the morning hun.. .. *THIS HAS WORKED YOU ARE PREGNANT*.

Ells


----------



## berry55

am i totally wrong as to thinking on the 2ww it is gd if you get a cold- if u have immune problems?


----------



## ratsy

*peaunuts - goodluck lovely i really wish and  you get that bfp tommorow *

*wish you all the luck in the world    *

*R x*


----------



## mag108

peanuts       looking goooooood
x for tomorrow


----------



## agate

Berry: no its not ideal to get any illness during Tx - there would be every chance that it wouldn't dent your chances but it would be putting your body under more pressure than ideal and it MIGHT raise your immune response depending how your body deals with the particular bug.

Peanuts:  good luck for your test!


----------



## berry55

agate- ohh thats good! I thought it was a good thing if u got ill so ur body is weaker to accept the preg more. I was worried cos i'm not ill lol! I have been getting a little bit of af pains tonight- defo to early for af... but i know its prob all the drugs. I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo bored lol


----------



## Diane72

Ooooooooooooooooh Peanuts how exciting     

Berry, you are definitely on panic mode, think calm thoughts, *ZEN*

CLS, great that your GP is so accomodating, we had to tramp off to the Sexual Health Clinic just to get all the standard tests done (chlamydia, syphillus, gonnorhea, HIV, HepB/C and bacteria flora for me) and they said they wouldn't do ureaplasma/mycoplasma even though my DH had previously tested positive through Zita West for ureaplasma. No worries though I have added ureaplasma and mycoplasma to my chlaymdia menstrual blood test and DH had the sperm culture test w. TDL done. Got all the test results from the sexual health clinic and they are all negative so just waiting for the other tests to come back from Greece / Gorgy. As agate says no worries about keeping your sample a few days just put it in the fridge, and its 25 days of antibiotics (have a look under the Greece board and you'll find lots of info on the C-test). 

Ells, good luck with your appointment with DR G tomorrow

Pinpin, gosh I can't believe how time flies, not long now. 

AFM, cold still getting me down and I'm getting impatient about moving on to the next treatment cycle as I feel my biological clock ticking and just want to get on with it 

Hugs to everyone 

Diane x


----------



## thumbelina

Hi ladies   

I havent been on for a while but now after all the tests have started my tx and I start stimms tomorrow.. I have a thumping headache so just going to attempt some personals and will be back tomorrow for more.

Agate - Im really sorry the scan hasnt put your mind at rest.. You have helped us all so much with ur knowledge.. I really hope your mind it put more at ease at your next scan     

Peanuts - Good luck for testing tomorrow hun     

Berry - Woohoo - We have cycled a few times before.. - Congrats on being pupo my lovely and with two lovely blasts aswell. I have everything crossed for you     

VW - Congrats on ur pregnancy hun xx

Ells - Congrats on ur pregnancy - wow twins.. that is amazing.. I hope everything has settled down after your scare xxx

Diane72 - I hope you feel better soon xxx

A big hello to Mousky, CLS, Desi and all you other lovely ladies      and      to all

Love Thumbelina xxx


----------



## Diane72

Thumbelina,

Sending you lots of fairydust   

D x


----------



## Pigloo

Hi 

Am I right in thinking IL's are made with Soy?  I have read that Soy is not good for people with thyroid probs and can also act as a mild contraceptive?!!!

Anyone any ideas?

Pigloo

Berry - hope any nastie colds stay away   

Peanuts - I will be looking out for your BFP on here tomorrow (hopefully line will be even darker   )


----------



## agate

pigloo: I THINK the answer is that ILs are made of soy oils - not the whole soybean - its the soy isoflavones that have hormonal effects (and are supposed to be goitrogenic (antithyroid)) not the oils.


----------



## sarahh

Peanuts, wishing you all the best for tomorrow, so hope that the line is a bit darker, know exactly where you are coming from re: the biochem as had one in August, I guess you are having a blood test tomorrow?    its a great number for you   

Berry - lol re: the wasp hon!!  You need to get a few things planned for the next 2 weeks otherwise I think you'll need to be in a padded cell by the end of it; just a few things to keep your mind off the dreaded 2ww as much as possible - meeting friend for lunch; bit of gentle shopping; cinema with DH etc. it helps take the mind off constantly wondering what is going on in your body.   

Pigloo - yes Intralipids has soya in I believe but have no idea about it being a mild contraceptive; having said that plenty of ladies on here are pg after it so it can't really be important otherwise Dr G wouldn't use it.  Don't know about the thyroid problems & intralipids though, sorry.  ( Just seen Agate has posted much more useful info as always while I've been typing   )

Ells, good luck tomorrow hon.  Yes, my Humira shots x 2 bought my levels down to 19.2.  Ecstatic!  And C test was negative.  Hopefully can finally get on with next round of tx.  

AFM have another sore throat coming on so the bugs are def getting through with the lowered TNF - just hope the latent TB stays away!!!!!!   

Desi - sorry to hear about your positive C test although it does seem to offer some explanation and possibly something different for some girls - hopefully it will mean a new wave of BFP's once you are all cleared.  I know how disappointed you must be though with all that waiting time now   

Hi to all the other girls, I'm off to bedfordshire now! 

Nite, Sarah x


----------



## Pigloo

Thanks ladies x


----------



## sal2

Hello everybody, still trying to get to know everyones names(so many). 

Just wondering ,I have to send menstural blood soon and was onto fed ex and as its a blood product I have to get all these forms, or do I just send it standar way wrapped in foil in evelope,he started saying I needed a letter from greece etc.. so much hasslealso somebody was talking about fax to email website and cant find it now, if anyone has it Id be greatful. As I want to get my results asap and may be away when get them and Im Very Impatient when it comes to fertility.

Hope you are all well and congrats on bfps


----------



## Cath34

Best of luck for a   today Peanuts.    that it will be a stronger line. xx


----------



## niccad

Peanut -      for you today

Ells - good luck today. I'm not seeing DrG but I will be over at ARGC (same street) if you fancy a quick herbal tea. 

Agate - about to pm you xxxx

Berry - hope that you're a home with your feet up in a zen like calm thinking 'happy' thoughts xxxx

I had EC yesterday. Got 6 eggs from my 7 follies.. Was a bit disappointed but have to see the upside as it's more than I got last time. Just got the call that 5 of them fertilised. YIPPEE! Looks like ET will either be sunday or Tuesday. I'm    for Tuesday as I've never gone to blast before and for some reason think my embies die the second they have been inside me the last 3 times... Come on embies... be strong!! 

Nic xxx


----------



## agate

Niccad:  congratulations, how utterly fab!  good luck for your next phone call.

Sal2: if the fedex is arrranged through Dr G, akbil (Dr G's secretary) shoudl be able to tell you what to do - so maybe phone her?


----------



## berry55

niccad- yeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! welldone you!!!! Good luck for your nxt phone call.

Well, today i have work up with the sorest head in the world and it just wont shift i'm thinking all the hormones r now getting to me. Also more family problems.... will this ever end!!!!!!! grrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Berry xxxx


----------



## berry55

I'm in chat if anybody whats to  come in for a natter again. xxxx


----------



## Mousky

Peanuts - thinking of you     


Niccad - that's a great number    


Berry - some     for you as well   


Thumbelina -   there. I hope we both have better luck this time   


Agate, Ells, Sarahh, Bling, CLS, Sal, Pigloo, Diane, Cath, Desi and everyone I might have missed I hope you're well   


Just to confirm (and repeat) what was said before, I spoke to Akvil and they're starting LIT on the 1st of June. Pg ladies first and then the "others"    If anyone has a confirmation (on dates, price, DH's tests) I'd appreciate an update


----------



## vw22

Thanks everyone for your lovely words. Still in shock but the second blood test shows hcg is going up normally, which is a relief. 


Peanuts really hope your blood test is good news.
Agate hope the wait is going as quickly as it can.


Pigloo - Dr G wouldn't give me ILs because it had soya and egg in it and I have a food intolerance to both. Not sure that helps you much but interesting for anyone else that may have intolerance. 


CLS my DH just did the same to Africa! 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off in Ghana. If yours is going to the same place pm me and we can work out if they know each other!!!



I am off to Dr G on Monday for IVIg at 1pm if anyone is around...


vx


----------



## Desi

VW22, sorry will miss you on Monday.
But I will be at Dr. G around 11.00 for Intralipids on Thursday 27-5.
Anyone around then?

Nice weekend to all!

Desi.
Xxx


----------



## mag108

nicaad: thats fab news! really good %!


Vw22: hope that numbers keep rising


----------



## ells

Hi Ladies,

Niccard, fab news on your famous 5 embies    .  I do hope you get the call to come in on tuesday      .

Peanuts, I really    that you results will be a good strong positive     . 

Berry the headache doesnt sound like fun, I hope that it settles down and that you feel better.  I hope the family stuff sorted itself out too.   

TB good luck with the stims, not too much longer hun.

Diane, hope the cold shifts soon for you hun    .

Sarah great news on the TNF a results and the C test.  You must be sooooo pleased.  

VW congrats on your pg hun, enjoy the next 8  or so months.  We will be at Dr G's on Monday, have to have an IL drip prob be there around 12ish, hope to see you in 'the room'   .

Mags hun how are you doing?

Ratsy, hows it going hun.  Glad Athens went well.

Mousky, Dr G said today that LIT def starting on the 1st with PG ladies first, the cost is going to be circa £1200, but I dont think that include the blood tests.

Agate how are you doing hun?

Hi to everyone else hope you are all okay.

AFM Dr G was brill today, he did a scan and all was fine.  The twins have grown quite a bit and were moving around so much. He said he wanted to be cautious so has asked me to go back on Monday and have IL's and also get my LAD retested - although he thinks that will be okay but just to tick all the boxes.  He had a good look at the placentas and was quite happy with everything but said because the EPU didnt check my cervix to confirm the bleed he said you had to assume the bleeding was coming from my uterus, even though he couldnt see anything, so the IL drip should just cover the bases. Long day though, so feel shattered!

Hope everyone has a fab weekend, the weather looks like its going to fantastic.

Ells


----------



## Mousky

Ells - so nice to hear things are going well for you and your twins  even better knowing Dr G is being so careful and you're going for ILs 

But hold on a minute  £1200 for LIT?   Why have I decided it was going to be £700?  Well, that sort of changes everything  Is it € 600 in Athens? Or am I making this up as well?  

xx


----------



## ells

Mousky, when I spoke to Dr G about the LIT last month he said it would be similar in price to PA's charges.  He did say today and I am sure it was £1200 - I could be wrong as there was quite a lot of noise as the windows were open.  I will ask again on Monday when we are there and let you know absolutely - sorry if I have got it wrong    .

Ells


----------



## Mousky

Ells - I hate the message, not the messenger


----------



## ells

Mousky    I will post the prices on Monday once I have double checked hopefully I am wrong and it wont be the higher amount and you are right    .
Ells


----------



## Bee1

Hi
So sorry if not posting in the right place and I think doing it by phone is doubly bad!  Anyway just wanted to say I have lurked too long and Agate was amazing last night at interpreting my dr G immunes. 
Now not sure where to post...am a Lister girl with a chelsea nhs cycle...always 'unlucky' but don't believe it...
Trying to decide whether to do all with Dr G (prob 4th and final go) or Lister with Dr G immunes..any thoughts?

Sorry to gate crash and I have everythong crossed for every ones journies...some will take longer but I am sure we will all get there.  Enjoy the sunshine x


----------



## vw22

Ells thats great news about the scan...will look out for you Monday! vx


----------



## agate

Mousky said:


> But hold on a minute  £1200 for LIT?   Why have I decided it was going to be £700?  Well, that sort of changes everything  Is it € 600 in Athens? Or am I making this up as well?


Its 500Eu in athens for paternal (not inc DH bloods - you have to sort those yourself - but athens don't treat blood tests as having 'expired' if they are older than 30 days - so you can use the same bloods if you need a 3rd or 4th LIT). Its 600Eu for single donor LIT (no blood tests needed because Dr T screens the donors for you). Pooled donor is about 650Eu but it may be a little more depending on what you need.

It used to be £1200ish plus the bloods with Dr A. So maybe the £1200 won't include DH's blood tests - in which case it will work out a lot more in london - especially if you need several LITs. Some ladies get away with 2 but some need 3 or 4. I know getting to athens is a lot of hassle but Dr T has a lot of expertise, and if its really going to cost that much then athens seems pretty attractive compared to london. I'm sure that he was quoting £700 to ladies a while ago, but maybe because there is so much demand he is rationing it by putting up the price? Or maybe its cost more to jump through all the regulatory hoops and get the lab support he needs done in london than he thought it was going to. Or maybe it includes the bloods?

Ells: excellent news. so pleased to read your post.

Bee1: for what its worth, if you are VERY happy with the quality of the stimms care etc that you get with the Lister and its easy for you to travel between both the Lister and Dr G's - then already being comfortable at the Lister for the IVF part would count for a lot IMHO because you could do without any avoidable stress. So, I'd think about making your decision based on whether you think it would be more stressful to do the IVF part with someone new who operates in a different way (I imagine its quite different having your IVF done with 1 doctor doing everything and no nurses, to having it done at a big clinic) to what you are used to, or whether it would be more stressful to be dealing with 2 clinics at once.


----------



## Desi

Strange about the £1200.........  
To me he always spoke of £700.
If you add £400-500 for blood tests you come to £1200 as well, so maybe that is it?
Let's wait until Monday and see what Ells is coming back with before getting ourselves even more   
We are already overly sensitive, let's wait and see (read).


----------



## Pigloo

Nicad - Well done on getting 5 embies and good luck for Tuesday

Ells - reassuring news for you on the twins that they are doing well 

VW22 - I am not aware that have a food intolerance to eggs/soy, I eat eggs and had the flu jab in Oct and now reactions and i have had soy beofre and no reactions there either so i think i'm ok on that front.

Pigloo x


----------



## Mousky

Desi - you're absolutely right, we must wait for confirmation    I must confess I've just started researching flights to Athens    Obviously, it would be much easier for us to go to London with the train, no needs for hotels or arrangements for our dog BUT it is quite a difference in price    Anyway, the blood tests you mean are DH's tests or the LAD retest? We would try to get DH's tests here regardless but tbh I'm not sure it'd be possible.


Agate - thanks for the heads up    I'd first thought of Athens then it seemed more sensible doing it in London but now we must reevaluate the circumstances.  



One question re LIT. How bad it would be to have 6 weeks between the "shots"? 


Bee - I'm living in Belgium and having tx here (with one doctor doing it all, no nurses as Agate mentioned and I really like it) and we've just got our results with Dr G. We're trying to combine everything and I must say it's quite stressful but I hope it will work out   


Mousky xx


----------



## agate

Mousky: lots of ladies have 6 weeks between LITs e.g., because of Dr T's holidays, their work committments etc.  Dr T's always said it would be fine.


----------



## Mousky

That's good to know    I guess I just need to find out about his summer plans before I make any decisions


----------



## agate

Pigloo said:


> VW22 - I am not aware that have a food intolerance to eggs/soy, I eat eggs and had the flu jab in Oct and now reactions and i have had soy beofre and no reactions there either so i think i'm ok on that front.


my guess is that if you had an allergy to soy you'd know about it - it turns up in all sorts of stuff if you read the packet - bread, ready meals etc... its actually quite hard to avoid it if you decide you want to. the other contraindication for ILs is peanut allergy (its not supposed to contain peanuts but there is often the caveat that it 'may contain traces' of peanut).


----------



## Bee1

Thank you Agate & Mousky for your thoughts.....
I think that I will wait and see how we feel after we have our follow up with Dr G and go from there, but we are lucky as we live in London so I should be able to juggle both clinics!
We just want to feel that we have made the right decision.
Have a lovely sunny weekend (hope it is in Belgium too!)
Bee


----------



## Peanuts

Hi girls

Sorry I didn't get on yesterday, I've got my parents across visitng so has been a bit of a distraction, but keepingme busy.

We got a BFP yesterday - HCG of 63







. We're so over the moon, but so nervous and worried at the same time. This is the 5th time I've been here and can't let myself get excited yet. I know that must sound silly, but its the only way I can get through the next couple of days and then into next week and then a week at a time.

The clinic are going to take me in next week for a repeat HCG to try to give me some reassurance that things are going in the right direction, so If I can hold on to next Friday I should be a bit more with it!! Then a 6 week scan if I get that far. So nervous!!

I'm booked in for LIT with DrG on 1st June, but forgot to ask how much t was, so will be interested in what you find out Ells.

Will catch up with you all next week when I pack my folks off to the airport!
Big hugs   
Dxx


----------



## bbm09

Peanuts,

Just logged on and CONGTATS!!!!! Well done!!!!! I hope you get through the next few days and weeks OK. Great start to the day to hear your news

BBM x


----------



## Mousky

Peanuts - great news!     I hope all goes well for you


----------



## ells

Fantastic news Peanuts!  Keep everything crossed for you that all goes well and you will be seeing your little one(s) on that 6 week scan.      

Ells


----------



## Diane72

Peanuts that is wonderful news. I do know how you feel at this point though (having been there 5 times before) but you have to get over this first hurdle to be in with a chance, so celebrate you've made it through the first hurdle!!  

Take it week by week, you know I'm here    for you that this time will be your time.


----------



## berry55

Hi girls,

Just a quick me post.... sorry. I have been sitting  at the beach all day and its about 28degrees here!! I'm worried that maybe i have over heated my embryos.... is that stupid? I have been getting little af pains all day.. i feel like crying. 

berry xxx


----------



## Lotus74

Congratulations Peanuts! Fab news!

Bee: I'm also a Lister girl and have done my immune tests with Dr G. We have one frostie so were thinking we'd do FET at Lister whilst doing immunes with Dr G. If it doesn't work out, we'll then probably have our 4th fresh cycle with Dr G.

xx


----------



## Diane72

Berry,

You are worrying too much remember, calm thoughts, *ZEN*

*The pains could be implantation.....*

Diane x


----------



## agate

Berry: just drink LOTS of water so you don't get dehydrated.  At this time, the pains could be related to implanation like Diane says.


----------



## berry55

hope you girls are right!!! Come on embryos impant into your mamma!!! lol this sun has made me crazy lol 

How is everybody doing?? xxx


----------



## ratsy

Hi girls 

Yay peanuts knew you could do it missy you just got take each day as it comes youve got DR G to help you and i think youl be fine you can do it i know you can     congratulations to you and dh 

Berry - forgot to say the other day that post about the bee i really laughed out loud it was sooo funny your mad     lets hope the af pains are implantation    

Diane hope your well how are you lately havent seen you posting much on here since that    hidden c tests are you ready for tx   

My god girls how hot is it im boiling ive got all windows open and still hot i love the warm weather but its soooooooo hot 

R x


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## fi7

Peanuts.

I am so so happy to see this news I have been checking often just to see this.  so exciting,  i know it is early but have confidence now your body is 'more friendly' you should be just fine.  

great news- i am so happy for you

fi


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## MissyMinx

Hi Girls, 

So sorry I've not been posting much - had lots of stress going on and been a bit    so I've just keeping a low profile generally till I'm more    I have been reading often though, and willing you all tonnes of   .  I just had to post when I saw Peanut's news - so many congratulations on your    hun.  That's absolutely fantastic. xx

Berry - thinking of you and sending you and your fab embies   

Fi7 - lots of    and    to you.  

Huge    and loads of    to Agate, Ells, Desi, Mousky, Ratsy, Diane, Lotus, BBM09, Bee1, Mags, Pigloo, VW22, Swinny, ShellyG and anyone else I've missed.

Lots of love to all,

Em.x


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## ratsy

Hi missyminx 

Lovely to hear from you wondered where youve been   

Hope you feel better soon and you get yourself back on track if you need a natter im always here   

Take care lovely and hope to see you back on here soon   

R x


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## Cath34

Peanuts - fabulous news hun.  I'm so pleased for you. I'm sure it will all go well but I know how you feel, the worrying never stops does it.

Ells- great news the twins are doing well. You must be so excited.

Berry- Hope you're holding out til test day? Keep the faith. Sending you loads of sticky vibes.

Agate- hope all is still going well with you hun?

Sarah, whats next with you? Lit? 

Hi to everyone else I've missed.

I'm on countdown - 12 days til c - section unless I go before then!!!!!!!!! How scary!!


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## Zeka

Peanuts, wohooo! Big congrats. Praying things go smoothly for you this time. X
Berry, your post about the wasp did make me laugh out loud too!  
Zeka x


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## thumbelina

Hi ladies   

Dianne - Thank you hun.. Sending you lots of     

Niccad - Well done on ur ec hun.. Good luck for et     

Peanuts - Congrats hun    

Mousky - I really hope so hun. When do you start?     

A big hello to everyone I have missed      and      to all.

Love Thumbelina xxx


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## berry55

Hi girls,

Thanks for all the posts    u girls r so nice. I'm afraid i have now offically lost the plot. I know your all gonna shout at me and tell me i need to keep positive but i woke up this morning very very VERY negitive. I really dont think this has worked. I have had no spotting.... not even the crinone gel is coming back out- i dont get it!!?!?!? I was so hoping that the af type pains were implantaion... but i have a feeling its just the drugs.  even my extreme hunger has vannished.... i bet it will come back as soon as i post this lol    wow i feel pants!  

I'm glad my run in with the wasp made u all laugh... my dh found it very funny too. 

Hope everybody has been enjoying this lovely weather

Berry xxxxxx


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## agate

Berry: most ladies don't have spotting or feel extra hungry in v early pg.  All this 'symptom spotting' means nothing!  Its still really hot.. so the most important thing you need to be doing is resting a little and drinking lots of water.


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## berry55

agate- please can you come visit me!!! lol


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## berry55

oh another qn i have.... as i am on prednisolone and clexane should that be making the swelling of my tummy go down? i thought that if my tummy got more swollen during the 2ww then i could think i had a bfp... but it seams to be going down now... xx


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## Clarebaby

Peanuts, how fantastic I am so happy for you!   

Does anyone know the costs of TNF retest via Gorgy?  Trying to work out whether I should try and organise it via my Doctors to save another trip to London.

Berry, not long to go now,       

Thanks


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## CLS

Hi Clarebaby - I did a TNF re-test thru Dr. Gorgy (and TDL) early May and the charge was £340.00.

I hope you are feeling a bit better this afternoon Berry, and able to relax a bit more.

A big hello to everyone else - hope you're well and enjoying this gorgeous weather. I'm originally from Australia and today's sunshine and glorious temperatures makes me (almost!) feel like I'm back there again - minus the ocean of course!  Off to the park to sit in the sun and read for me.....  

CS


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## agate

berry55 said:


> oh another qn i have.... as i am on prednisolone and clexane should that be making the swelling of my tummy go down? i thought that if my tummy got more swollen during the 2ww then i could think i had a bfp... but it seams to be going down now... xx


clexane doesn't cause bloating. pred is unlikely to cause swelling in the short term - although it can cause weight gain over the longer term
progesterone (gestone, crinone) - can cause bloating but also constipation especially the longer you are on them for, which will make your belly swell depending on when you empty your bowels.
ovarian stimms and the normal trauma resulting from egg recovery will give some swelling but that should slowly go down.

so I don't think you can read anything into this, Berry. you can expect some of the swelling from stims/EC to be going down now, and whether you stay bloated in early pg mainly depends on how constipated you get on progesterone (natural+supplements).


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## fi7

Berry

I can honestly say that in all the times i was pregnant inc the one that worked, i never guessed correctly.  When i thought i was, i wasn't and when i thought there was not a hope in the world, i was, so put your feet up and try and chill.  I am so hoping for you this time and have everything crossed for you and sending you lots of    .

It will happen for you.

 big hugs to everyone else, enjoy the sun

fi


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## Pigloo

Missyminx - sorry to hear you have a lot of stress going on at the moment, i hope you are feeling   soon   

Pigloo x


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## Pigloo

Peanuts huge congrats on your    

Pigloo x


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## Desi

Peanuts, what a wonderful news!!!!!!!!!       
Well done, so far so good!!!!!! Feet up.

Would you like to share what treatments you did?
I can read in your signature what you needed, but did you do all?
Did you do any additional things?

Big hug!!
Desi.
Xxx


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## Peanuts

Hi girls

Thanks so much for your lovely messages, means a lot coming from my FF's    
Spent most of yesterday panicing, but a bit calmer today, so hopefully I can stay like that for a couple of weeks - but unlikley!   

Desi - I had Paternal LIT in Athens, Intralipids, Clexane, Prenisolone and Gestone - wow thats a bit scary when I type it all out!!  Back for more LIT on 1st June with DrG and another Intralipids this week.

Big hugs to all,    sorry I don't have time for personals, off to make cups of tea for the folks and then off to bed.  This sunshine has made me really tired!

Dxx


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## sarahh

Hi all, Peanuts - BFP - wow, amazing.  Heres    the little embie(s) are sticky and are in for the long term,    

Berry, try to chill out hon, take it easy & rest up; as Agate says keep hydrated in this weather and try not to overheat too much. 

AFM, I have LIT booked for 8th June with Dr G - I too didn't ask about cost as not really bothered, just want to get on with it!! I also have a telephone appt on Tues to work out my "plan" and persuade him to let me start asap!!!!  

Cath - let us know when you pop!!   Good luck hon, all the best,    for a smooth (pain free   ) labour for you    x

Night all, Sarah x


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## niccad

Peanuts… Many many congratulations!     

Berry – hope that you’re surviving the heat and are in your zen like calm state xx

Desi – enjoy the IL on Thursday…. With this hot weather I think the cold drip will be really refreshing! X

Ells – so happy that the scan went well and that all was good. Guessing you’re having IL now so hope you have some nice company at DrG’s x

Mousky – Paul Armstrong was always £1100 so I assumed DrG would be a similar price… annoying isn’t it! X

Cath – wow – can’t believe that it’s so soon. How exciting!! 

Hi to Zeka, Missyminx, Pigloo, Agate and everyone else… Strange how we all moan about the bad weather in England and yet we’re all now thinking it’s too hot… 

Looks like I’m having ET tomorrow. I was all ready to go yesterday and got the call that 4 are at 8cells and are looking good (also one 6 cells but heavy fragmentation). I’ve never been to blast before so am excited, scared, happy, worried and optimistic all at the same time. Praying that they all make it to blast… xxx


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## agate

good luck for tomorrow, Niccad!


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## berry55

niccad- yey!! well done hun!!! lots and lots of luck for tomorrow!! xxx


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## ratsy

Hi girls 

Need some tips if ok 

Im due to take my first humira tommorow night     and i was wondering if any of you have any tips or advise on best way to do it or if im spose to do it a certain way 

Agate - can i take my fish oil tabs whilst doing LIT ive stopped for a week just in case hope you ok with all this hot weather 

Niccad - goodluck lovely for tommorow hope you get some fab blasts   

Berry - hows it going lovely 4 days to go how you feeling you ok 

Cath- how exciting bet you cant wait now to meet your LO   

hope all you girls ive missed are ok and enjoying this gorgeous weather 

R x


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## niccad

Ratsy - I took it out of the fridge about 30 mins before I used it. It is quite painful and I found I had to inject it quite slowly (it gave a burning sensation as it went in). Good luck xxxx


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## agate

Ratsy: I THINK you can continue with your fish oil until you start clexane - then you need to think about keeping the dose low.


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## ratsy

Thanks niccad / agate 

So its like the gestrone to put in coz thats hard to go in ,I will def lower my dose of fish oils when i start the clexane then 

Thanks 

R x


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## agate

I inject clexane REALLY slowly too... I think I bruise less if it goes in slow...  only 1 pack of it to go now, I think.


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## ells

Hi ladies,

Just a quick one as just got back and have to go a replace the contents of our fridge (the door got left open this morning and everything has gone off/not worth the risk)    .  Plus DH is trying to catch a mouse that the cat brought it   .

VW it was lovely to meet you today, hope you got on okay.#

Spoke to Dr G re LIT:  The actual Lit bit will be approx £700, then you just need to add the cost of the HEP B, C HIV etc to that which is about £300 (for your partner).  Hope this helps ladies.

Niccard I am soooooooo excited for you, good luck for ET!!!     

Ratsy, with the humira - I found doing it slowly and steadily helped.  Good luck though hun.

Catch up properly later    

Ells


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## Bling1975

Ratsy - I had an auto injector, you just push a button and then hold it still. It hurts so just prepare for it, it is over quickly. If you have the auto one, my tip is to not push it against the skin, I managed to create a vacuum the second time and it was both painful and sucked a bit of the liquid out after.


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## Diane72

Good Evening Everyone,

Ells, how annoying about your fridge!!! Good news about the LIT being £700. I presume the Hep B etc. testing you don't need to keep re-testing every time, did he say if it was just once a year?

Agate, I hope you are OK and not too uncomfortable with the sun. How are you feeling?

Ratsy, I personally found the humira quite easy, much, much less hassle and painful than the gestone, but more like the clexane 'stingers'.

Niccad, wonderful news  who are you doing your ET with? Good luck!!!

Sarahh, good luck with getting your plan and starting, I am becoming quite frustrated and just want to get on with it now.

Peanuts, hope the LIT and intralipids go smoothly, come on embie, stick in there!!!! 

Berry, hope you are remaining calm.......

Cath, not long now, sending you lots and lots of luck 

Hugs to everyone else 

AFM, well the plot gets even thicker, My C-test is still positive and now I also have detected positive mycoplasma. I have a telephone consultation with Dr. Toth on Wed. night and he makes you take a _REALLY _thorough history including your own birth etc. Turns out my Mum could have had chlamydia when I was born!

Diane x


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## Pigloo

Hi girls

For those of you who are taking prednisolone, when did you start it?

Pigloo x


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## agate

day 5/6/7 of stimms, pigloo


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## Pigloo

thanks agate, I spoke to our clinic today, we have an appt with them in 2 weeks and they are going to give us our tx schedule (which will prob be to start a couple of weeks later) i'm just trying to work out when we can start in terms of immunes tx but sounds like what Dr G is suggesting for me (pred, ils, gestone not sure about clexane as he didn't mention this) is to take during the tx and not weeks before it.


Good luck Niccad   

P x


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## Mousky

Evening all,


So Humira hurts that much? How yummy   



Niccad - that's wonderful! Best of luck for ET tomorrow    


Berry - I hope you're well, not too long now   


Ells - thank you for the update. I'm still wondering what are the tests (DH) that would only be valid for a month? I asked Akvil about the tests but last week they were still working on it. Do you think it's only Hep and HIV? I read a much longer list on the LIT FAQ    Anyway,  I hope you're all doing well   


A big    to everyone else.


Mousky xx


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## DND

Hi girls, we hope to get an answer about our LIT this week, either from London or Greece. When do you use to go home? The same day when you get LIT or the day after? Is it OK to go aboard after LIT?


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## Bling1975

DND - you can fly the same day, but I have not managed to find any flights that get me there on time on the day or that go late enough so I can go home the same day. You need to be at the clinic at 14.00 and you might not get out until 17.00.


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## Bling1975

Sorry, I forgot to mention that the flights are from Stockholm. A lot of the English girls do it in a day.


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## berry55

Hi girls,
Thanks for all the messages. I'm doing ok. I kinda feel like nothing now.... it really weird. I think i'm just so used to the pain after tx and i dont really know anything else so i'm trying to prepare myself for that. I am just very very scared. I have been getting af pains... and my tummy is very very bloated.... it has started to feel a little tender today (almost the pain from when u have been doing situps) I actually dont have any clothes that fit me just now... i was wearing a pair of black linen trousers which are usually a perect fit on me and i was wearing them with all 4 buttons unbuttoned!!! and it felt like they were all buttoned and i had had the biggest meal ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really do look about 3 months preg. I dont think i have OHSS so i'm not worried about that, i have had that b4 and i'm not in any pain.  Also yesterday i had (sorry tmi) bits of the crinone gel coming out and it had a sort of pinky tinge to it... dont know if that means anything.  

rasty- gd luck with the humria... u just used to take it straight from fridge and then inject... it was a sore one. You will b fine, if i can do it, you can! xxx

Diane- i'm sorry about the c test. I really hope u get answers about it all. Thinking of you hun xxxx

Fi- how r u hun? been thinking about you. xxx


You girls are all so lovey- the messages you all have given me during this 2ww have really helped me, thank you all so much. xxx


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## thumbelina

Hi ladies   

Niccad - Good luck for et tomorrow     

Ratsy - Good luck for your humira tomorrow     

Ells - Oh no I hope you have sorted ur fridge out now and u are mouse free  - ur right its best not to risk it. Thanks for the info re the lit     

Diane72 - Oh no.. Im so sorry hun.. It seems to be one thing after another.. Its interesting that the doc thinks ur mum could have had C when giving birth to you. I really hope that things start to fall into place for you soon      

Agate - I hope your good hun     

A big hello to Mousky, DND, Bling1975, pigloo and anyone else that I have missed.

Berry sending you loads of      and     

Well I am on day 4 of Stimms today and feel like I could kill someone    - Im sure I wasnt this bad last time. Im going to have a busy week too. I have my drip tomorrow at lunch then we are having our neice tomorrow night as my sister in law is having a caesarian plus Im starting my clexane, predonoslone and baby aspirin tomorrow. Does anyone know whether the clexane has to be taken at the same time everyday. I was thinking of taking it with my vitamins and predonoslone in the morning. I just wanted to be sure whether I needed to set my alarm for either of them. I thought I would take the baby aspirin before bed. Does that sound okay?

Sending you all loads of      and     

Love Thumbelina xxx


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## ells

Hi Ladies,

Fridge is now restocked but mouse is hiding in the lounge soemwhere, so DH will be dealing with that when hhe gets back friom football  .

Diane/Mousky, Dr G never said that you would need more tests but what he did say was that you would need to get yours and Dh's blood tests done the day before your LIT so that the tests are valid if you need a booster, which makes me think you may have to have the tests done again if you need more?? Sorry to hear about your C test and the mycoplasma , I do hope that your doctor can get to the bottom of it asap and get you sorted.

Berry, all sounds positive hunni. Remember *THIS HAS WORKED YOU ARE PREGNANT*

Tumbelina that's how I take all my bits. I try and stick to the same sort of time for the clex but definiately do the pred in the morning as it can affect your sleeping at night.

Hope everyone else is okay.
Ells


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## ratsy

Hi ladies   

Thanks for al the tips girls   

Bling - humira sounds lovely     i shall look forward to that then   

Thumbelina - You made me laugh i get like that dp dreads when i start tx im like a loon   

Ells - poor you and fridge id be fumin its expensive to replace  loads of food . hope dh catches that mouse i wont sleep for you   

Diane - i cant believe that C its ben a nightmare for you thing is once is gone your all ready for a fresh tx with no worries lovely    

Berry - aww lovely its awful the 2ww the pink with the crinone could be implantation so i wouldnt worry yet like i said to ells its not over till the fat lady sings hang on in there not long now , are you having blood test on otd or you using own test ??

DND - hope you get your LIT sorted 

Agate - hope your resting up and your husband fanning you with this heat   

R x


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## thumbelina

Ells thank you hun      

Ratsy - Its terrible isnt it?


----------



## berry55

ratsy- i'm having a blood test on friday... but i wont get my results till prob after 4pm as my clinic r terrible for that. So i will prob go for blood test at 10am- come home and do a test- andi just know what will happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!i just know it!!! i am gonna end up in a total state!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Bee1

I seem to have missed so much already, but just want to send congratulations to Peanuts - fantastic news!

Thanks Lotus.....we also have a follow up with Chelsea this Thursday and this is where our frosties are but we may move these to Lister.... Think that we will do a fresh cycle in July/August....mmmm decision, decision.  Who is your consultant at the Lister?  Do they support your immunes?  Not sure whether to mention to them that we have seen Dr G...?  Oh gosh...lots of questions - sorry 

Niccad - good luck for tomorrow - blasts well done!

Hello to everyone else  - I'm still very new and slow at this so not quite with who is where, but sending    to all
Bee x


----------



## ratsy

Berry - youl be fine honest do you know what ive noticed on this thread most of  the girls who get a bfp have no symptoms and all worry it hasnt worked and on test day get a bfp 

Remember you embies and you were in a panic over them and it all turned out fine and you had 2 gorgeous excellent grade blasts to put back . well those perfect blasts are snuggling in now symptoms mean nothing and youve had immune drugs that could affect things hang in there not long    just think positive i know easier said than done and your screaming inside but DR G looking after you this time with extra drugs to support your bfp 

R x


----------



## bubbles09

Hi ladies

Sorry to gatecrash but Ive got myself in a state. I have been storing my clexane in a cupboard  and thought it was fine but I know it has to be stored under 25 degrees and just saw on my thermometer is 27. Im really worried all of it isnt going to work now and have no idea where to store it. Does anyone have any ideas.

Sorry for no personals.

   to all

Love bubbles09 xx


----------



## Klingon Princess

bubbles, can't help with the clexane question I'm afraid, although I'd imagine it should be ok, we've only had this hot weather for a day or two.  Do you have a room that is cooler than the others, my front room is always a degree or two cooler than the other rooms in the house, for example.  come to think of it I should probably check my own supply.

I had my appointment with Mr Gorgy yesterday, he's really good but VERY expenive. I was really shocked because even though we are using donor embryos, he still insisted the DQ alpha match with my DH was relevent (I still cant see how) and I hadnt budgeted for that test.  I also think the chlamidia test is going to be a waste because DH was tested for it a year ago and it was negative.. surely if I had it, I'd have given it to him by now?

Also, can't beleive how much the high vaginal swab he did actually hurt me!  I was in agony afterwards and could hardly walk.. and as for sitting down... well the coach journey home wasnt much fun.

Does anyone know roughly how long it takes for results to come back? And how do I get the results?  will they ring or write, or do I have to contact them for the results?

thanks

Kehlan


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## Skybreeze

New home ladies >> http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=237535.new#new


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