# Win £25k of tx competition!



## Miranda7

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2011676/IVF-lottery-win-baby-launching-Britain.html

OK, it's in the Mail so there's the inevitable tx-bashing. But it sounds good!

/links


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## H&amp;P

I was just about to post this, it's in every newspaper today (some of the headlines are very sensationalised)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8619677/Babies-to-be-won-monthly-in-first-IVF-lottery.html

/links


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## fishface

Gamble to gamble - doesn't mean i wouldn't buy a ticket though


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## utb

People are already subjected to the postcode lottery I for one will buy a ticket and all the people I have seen posting comments on the articles in the paper that claim it to be sick are quite obviously people who have never had IF issues until they have walked in our shoes they can never understand or appreciate the heartbreak I only hope for them and their family's sake that there comments will not come back to haunt them.

IVF is a lottery to start with I am lucky in that we have been able to fund three fresh cycles and on FET, however we have enough money for one last attempt and then that is it some people are not as fortunate as me even though it hasnt YET worked I know ladies that havent even had one attempt as they cannot raise the funds.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but if that opinion has no experience attached to it then I am afraid that I discount it.

x x x x


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## MandyPandy

I'll be entering too.  

Couldn't give a  what the critics say.


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## kitten77

mandy pandy - my thots exactly - i dont give a  what peoples views are.


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## utb

As long as they operate ethically and have certain criteria in place (I dont agree that just anyone can have a go i.e over 50's etc) I dont see what the big deal is the people can do what they like with there money and if they choose to buy a lottery ticket then who cares.

There are so many people posting comments on the newspaper websites under the article saying this is sick etc one man even says IVF should be banned these people clearly have no IF issues or havent started trying for a family I hope for their sakes they dont have to eat their words.

x x x x


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## PinkPeacock

I'm willing to compromise my ethics to win £25000 treatment. Funnily enough, I wouldn't to win £25000 with which I could buy treatment. I don't even do national lottery but for some reason I'll be entering this. 

If I won and got a BFP from it, I wouldn't care how it came about.


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## lollipops

I've just put this subject foward on a thread I am on &  have found some ladies are for it and others are against it.

I'm all for it! The costs of having treatment privately is crazy & this allows some people a chance. The NHS refuses to cough up in some areas and this leaves too many people at a dead end.

I have been lucky and have had 3 NHS funded goes (1xISCI and 2xFET's) but now I have to pay, we can only realistically afford 1 full go of ICSI then the piggy bank will be empty. So If this cycle fails then I will definately be purchasing a ticket! 

I don't really see the difference in buying a normal lotto ticket or one of these ones - I know if I won the National Lottery that I would have as many goes of fertility treatment as I could, so this lotto designed just for people like us is even better as surely theres a greater chance of winning.

My only concern (that a lovely lady on one of the boards brought up) is that I hope all the proper checks are put in place. It would be a shame if just anyone could assess fertility treatment regardless of health &  background. However if the normal checks are in place then this is modern way of enabling women & couples who may have financially hit a brick wall some much needed hope!

I hope in a 1yrs time we read of many success stories that have come of this!

I will be asking family & friends to buy me tickets for my birthday!


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## MandyPandy

I think a lot of people (in the comments sections for the various online articles) have put the point forward about the proper checks being in place etc - my view on that is: who polices couples who have children naturally and who does all the background checks, etc?


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## Lollie2501

I will be buying a ticket for sure! 

The clinics would have to do all the usual tests and checks and follow guidelines as they are regulated by HFEA they wouldn't be able to make allowances. I'm unsure what site I read it on but saw that one of the conditions of treatment going ahead is that the winner has to meet and be within the clinic's criteria! If you don't fit then you won't be treated so that's good!

Best of luck ladies xxx


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## MandyPandy

Lollie2501 said:


> I will be buying a ticket for sure!
> 
> The clinics would have to do all the usual tests and checks and follow guidelines as they are regulated by HFEA they wouldn't be able to make allowances. I'm unsure what site I read it on but saw that one of the conditions of treatment going ahead is that the winner has to meet and be within the clinic's criteria! If you don't fit then you won't be treated so that's good!
> 
> Best of luck ladies xxx


lol! Depends what the clinic's criteria are. What if you have to be under a certain age, BMI, have the 'right' FSH or AMH, etc? Will be interesting to see how this all pans out.


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## kitten77

i have been reading all the comments on the newspapers websites and im flabbergasted by some peoples low mindedness on the subject! its shocking how awful somepeople can be. 

but yep im buying them and getting anyone else who wants to buy them for me - our only chance by the looks of it as 6 tx later and outta money!!!! 

...oh and one comment on there was someone saying that if they couldnt afford treatement themselves then people are not financally stable to have a child! WTF!?? seeing we have been wiped out for paying for tx!


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## MandyPandy

kitten77 said:


> i have been reading all the comments on the newspapers websites and im flabbergasted by some peoples low mindedness on the subject! its shocking how awful somepeople can be.
> 
> but yep im buying them and getting anyone else who wants to buy them for me - our only chance by the looks of it as 6 tx later and outta money!!!!
> 
> ...oh and one comment on there was someone saying that if they couldnt afford treatement themselves then people are not financally stable to have a child! WTF!?? seeing we have been wiped out for paying for tx!


LOL! I read that last one too. TBH, most of the comments made me laugh at some of the utter morons that are out there.


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## Scrummy

I have seen the article today and tbh i dont know what to think.

Its a great idea for people like myself who do not have the money to have to pay for something we long for , however on the other hand i just think its a cruel way of making a lot of money from people who are less fortunate.

But when all said and done if there is a chance however small of having a family then ill take it.


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## butterflykisses

it's in my local evening paper too.

i will def be doing it  got to be in it to win  .i'm 35 next year so my next go will be my final go at icsi  as i donate some of my eggs  aswell. and we have to pay due to my dh having children from a previous marriage.

anybody know how we get a ticket.
in my paper it says from saturday 30th july.this is my wedding anniversary    .

                              lv marie 76xx


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## butterflykisses

It is not exclusively for couples. Single, gay and elderly players - who could pass the prize on to friends or family - will be allowed to take part.

However the game has been branded demeaning. Tickets could eventually be sold in newsagents.


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## Fraggles

tbh I am so over all the IVF bashing from the papers. It's constant from small minded people and I personally wish they would put a zip on it.

I also read the cost cycle of a NHS cycle is £1100 (including drugs I believe) - this was from someone on FF who said she worked in the assisted conception dept of a NHS hospital I think.  I have never had an NHS funded cycle but am sure far more people would be willing to pay for their treatment rather than pin their hopes on an NHS cycle if it was at £1100 rather than the rip off prices private patients are charged.

x


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## Specky77

I haven't read the full story yet but have been told about it. I can't help feeling that theyre cashing in on our misery, I mean how many thousands of people are gonna do this, where will anything above the £25k go, I'm guessing not just back in the charity? I don't think I'll be doing it, the disappointment of not having a baby is bad enough let alone the disappointment of not winning these free goes. I just think there's got to be a better way of helping people with treatment than this


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## April33

I can completely understand why people would buy one of these tickets.

However, the news of this lottery has saddened me. They need to sell 1,250 tickets just to cover the prize money and are obviously expecting many more people to buy tickets to make it profitable and worth their while. Whilst some people are going to be incredibly lucky, the majority of people are obviously going to be disappointed and I feel that the disappointment will be so much stronger than, for example, failing to win the national lottery because of the emotions associated with fertility issues and what this particular lottery represents.

I know the money raised will go to charity but I still feel uncomfortable with the idea that they are making profit from people's desperation to have a family. Plus £20 is a lot of money to many people (me included), particularly in the current economic climate. I know there's the potential chance to win £25,000 worth of tx but the chances are, unfortunately, that you won't win. 

I find it incredibly upsetting that people are having to resort to playing a lottery to fund tx. What is it going to take to make politicians, healthcare managers etc. understand how much an effect fertility issues have on people's lives and provide more NHS funded tx?


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## smcwales

I am in agreement with April Specky and Scrummy.

I was saddened when I read this article.  I think that they are going to be making money out of those of us who are desperate to have a family.  It is a lottery and how many of you have won the national lottery?  The chances of winning this are so slim and the emotions that will be involved would be too much each month to lose.  That would make two monthly events very saddening.

Although I completely understand why people would buy the tickets.


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## MandyPandy

I can completely see the 'making money from our misery' viewpoint but from what I understand, any money they make over and above the cost of the treatment will be given to charity. I have no problem with that at all.

As far as I can see it, this will be the first effort at it. Maybe in future there will be more than one 'winner' per month?

Certainly my chances of getting a cycle this way are better than my chances with the NHS and if you view it like a lottery or a raffle (i.e., I'll buy a ticket but I'm not really expecting to win it) then I don't see the harm.

Yes, more needs to be done to improve the NHS funding but that's not happening so this is someone's attempt at an alternative. I think it's better to have some chance (no matter how slight) than none at all and I really can't see anyone ever _expecting_ to win - just buying a ticket on the offchance (which is exactly what I do with the national lottery/euromillions, which I've spent far more than £20 on in my time).


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## kitten77

oh dont get me wrong, it has sadended me to to know that once again people are making money from our misery as they know all too well that we will buy a ticket!!!!  as we are desperate and any chance is a good chance for me - ive gotta put the bitter feelings to one side and hold on to that hope.....no matter how small it is.


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## April33

I can totally see both sides of the arguement.

At the end of the day it's a personal decision. 

I support any individual who decides to buy a ticket. It's just not for me.


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## Maisyz

I do feel a bit uncomfortable with it. Don't get me wrong I will be totally over the moon if any of the lovely ladies (or indeed guys) on here win and get their baby because they will be the most wanted baby in the world. But to me we shouldn't have to do this, we should all get proper diagnosis and treatment on the NHS, the three free attempts that the NHS think we should get, for everyone. (And in trms of diagnosis I shouldn't have to pay £4,000 to see if I have immune issues if it's something that needs fixing surely? I imagine there would be public outcry if there was a lotto to get chemo treatment or for a liver transplant so not quite sure why everyone thinks it's fine to reduce our medical care to a chance to win. Must admit I already feel like a freak show most days, woman with useless womb etc and this made me fell even more rubbish. I won't be entering but as I said I really hope if someone can afford to and wins I hope it's a lovely person from here who really desrves to be a parent.


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

I know the lady that set up the charity. 
The 'woman' who started this, started the charity to give something back after going through IVF herself. She started the charity off her own back after giving birth, going through a divorce, and sitting up all night with a baby and getting the website up and running. 

it is not a money making scheme, but obviously she needs to reclaim some costs back. she doesn't work and i am in awe of how she has done it. she is a very knowledgable lady and has done it to help people like us. 

I'm sure if you were at rock bottom you would want ANYTHING to help you get that one dream. People increase mortgages to pay for tx or if you won some money you would use it for tx, i can't see any differnce. 

You could argue using DE or sperm or Donor embryo is unethical as there are so many chidren needing adopting but we do it.


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## Maisyz

Mini I don't see anything wrong in her getting costs back etc at all. Certainly big charities deduct costs so she is no different at all and it does seem the rest of the money will help charity and hopefully someone will get their dream from it.  If anyone wants to discuss praeying on the vulnerable they should take a good look at the rip off prvate sector fertility clinics who rob us blind frankly. Just remembered another concern I had though is the press. I'm sure they'd hunt down the "Lotto Baby" and I certainly wouldn't want that for my little one.


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## kitten77

im just grabbing at any hope no matter wot costs....... sad and low of me but its all ive got


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Maisy - I agree but then the first IVF baby was hunted down etc but look what it did for us! Hopefully the media will settle down. It needs to get rid of the 'competition' ethos and look at it as 'helping' someone.


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## Maisyz

Essentially you win the cah for IVF or whatever treatment though I assume so now not illegal, lotterying off an actual baby would be illegal but the cash no different to any other lotto. Would be interesting to know what happens if someone won it who didn't want IVF though (sure why enter if you don't etc) but some people might enter anyway, what if they demand the cash would defeat the whole point surely and presumably render the charitable status nil and void. Hope she's taken some hard core legal advice to cover off that eventuality.


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

don't worry she would of!   

So Kcat if you were having to have more tx and were so desperate, you wouldn;t be tempted?    I know i would. I would do anything, well i did!


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

My DH used to do the lottery every week to see if we could raise funds for tx., isn';t that the same??


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## MandyPandy

Good grief.  I just take it as an extra chance for some help.  Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't understand why it's necessary to read any more into it.  She's doing it for all the right reasons - and I'm sorry but I simply can't believe that anyone is stupid enough to get their hopes up about it so much that they then despair, get depressed, etc., if they don't win.  We're all intelligent people - to assume we'd be completely soul destroyed if we didn't win would be completely undermining that intelligence.

I play the lottery every week in the hope that I'll win enough to fund treatment.  The only difference I can see is that with this, the odds are far more favourable.

Just my two cents worth though.


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## MandyPandy

♥ Mighty Mini ♥ said:


> My DH used to do the lottery every week to see if we could raise funds for tx., isn';t that the same??


LOL! Snap!


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥




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## April33

This issue has certainly divided opinion!

Regardless of whether you agree or disagree I think it's positive that this subject has got us debating. 

I'd like to think that if it's got us talking then it may have got the 'outside world' talking also and I believe any discussions surrounding fertility issues and tx that may highlight our struggle can only be a good thing


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## babycrazy

o^             for
FOR ALL OF YOU WHO BUY A CHANCE OF HOPE, 
UTB!    EVEN IF YOUR AGE 50 & ABOVE LIKE ME, AND SEE A CHANCE OF A  LONG AWAITED DREAM COMMING TRUE AND GRAB IT LIKE I DID.
IVF is a gamble  and lots more money is being taken off venerable couples by all the clinics in UK.
If i win that Euro lottery on Friday, my wish would be to set up an IF clinic, only charging the true cost of a IVF TX and i would also employ  DR who believes in immune issues.
Angel blessings to all
xx
BC


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## kitten77

agree with mandy pandy, surely people know its a lottery with a slim chance of winning like any compition, surely people are grown up enough to not pin all hope on winning and then when/if dont then be shattered by it.  blimey if that is the case then all the people playing the lotto who dont win then the world would be a very sad place.


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## utb

I think its a great idea providing there are rules and criteria.  I dont agree with women who have babies after a certain age I dont think its healthy when you see people in the 50's and 60's having children but that is just my opinion.  I will be buying a ticket and my family who dont need TX will also be buying one to try and increase our chances of winning and also to give to a charity that no one ever thinks about unless they are affected by IF.

This lottery can only be a good thing as it is raising the issue of IF and getting people talking about it I was so angry yesterday after reading some of the comments from people who said IVF should be banned and that the lottery is sick the only people whos opinion on the subject that I believe is valid is the people that have had to go through IF whether IF couples agree or disagree on the subject doesnt matter we all have the experience and knowledge to make an informed decision on what we think and whether we will buy a ticket or not.

I wish whoever enters the best luck in the world as they say you got to be in it to win it and after spending over £17K already a lottery win would be very nice indeed.

x x x x


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## shortbutsosweet

Hi

Very interesting story I would buy a ticket. As for proper checks. I havw completed all the paperwork for consultation and its amazing. You want treatment and they want too check your back ground. Lie down with your partner and concieve naturally you could be a criminal no problem. You want ivf you have to pay crazy money and be vetted as you were a criminal. 
As for the mail its "health" stories always deliberately shock and scare people 
Whoever wins will have the funding but unfortunately no guarantee the treatment willl work but one worry will be gone!


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## April33

I would never enter this lottery (or any other lottery) _expecting_ to win. I appreciate the chances of winning any lottery are slim.

However, I would enter this lottery with a tiny bit of _hope_. After all, if there wasn't a small bit of you that didn't _hope_ to win then what would be the point of entering in the first place?

Our chances of conceiving naturally are next to none but that does not stop me hoping for a miracle every month only to have that hope shattered when AF arrives. I don't get really depressed over it because, deep down, I know it was never going to happen but I do still feel a twinge of grief/upset/disappointment.

If I entered this lottery and I didn't win (the chances are that I wouldn't) then I suspect I'd feel the same. No, I wouldn't be dispairing or shattered by it but for me it would be representative of something much greater i.e. the fact that I may never be a mother.

I am so tired of having every little bit of hope snatched away from me and I am so emotional and fragile right now. I simply do not want to put myself in a position where I know even a tiny bit of hope is going to be taken away every month.

After reading some of the comments I feel like I must be .

We all have opinions (some very strong) on this subject and personal reasons for feeling the way we do (as I have shared with you).

At the end of the day we have to do what's best for ourselves and hope for understanding and support from everyone at FF regardless of what decisions we make.


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## shortbutsosweet

hi april
well said! 
I know i am clutching onto all hope however desperate or unrealistic it may seem.  I bought my first ever euromillions ticket yesterday and off course didnt win a penny!
But ivf treatment is also a gamble who knows if it will work for one couple, why does it work or why doesnt it work. As we are self funding and having some money issues a win of either lotto or ivf lotto would be more than useful


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## lollipops

I think this whole ''lotto'' thing has been blown out of proportion. I don't see it harming anyone & if it raises some much needed awareness for Infertility & the total unrealistic costs that we have to pay then it gets a big thumbs up from me   

Granted , it is a very unique & modern way of dealing with a somewhat sensitive issue but I am not ashamed of my infertility & I think this lotto may help other women to feel more confident about their infertility issues too. This lotto is bringing IVF into the lime light , it is highlighting how our NHS system is reluntant to help couples and my hope is that in the long run this lotto will perhaps push the NHS to think about making fertility treatment fair across the whole of the UK. I am the first to put my hand up & say that it's bloomin awful what we have to put our bodies,minds and bank balances through, however my hope is that this lotto and the publicity it brings sheds some much needed light on the costs & effects that IVF brings to a couple/person.

I mean , who would of thought we would reach the day when the likes of ******** & ******* , online dating ,  and fertility forums would take over the world?! The need to broadcast our ever move & every though?! Yet given time I think most of us have or had a ********/******* account.  Yet way back when it all began it caused such a stir and was frowned upon.
Given time, no-one will see the problem with purchasing a Ivf Lotto ticket, afterall Infertility is at an all time high & continues to rise...so I think this is a modern , refreshing approach to living with and dealing with infertility and treatment.

Of course its just my opinion & I am not trying to convince others, just stating my own personal thoughts on the matter , it's healthy to debate about things like this and I don't think any of us should be offended by the different views on this thread- it makes for a great read & gives us all the opportunity to hear others opinions and help us as individuals to make an informed desicion on where we stand.

Love Lolli  xxx


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## ilovesnow

lollipops - very true and I agree with you. 

As others have made the point, not winning isn't going to make people go out and commit suicide because they're at the depths of despair! I can't believe some of the non-infertility related forums that have discussed this subject and seem to think that anyone who has difficulties conceiving, are being given false hope by this lottery. Of course it seems to be all the parenting forums where you see exclamations of "I think it's disgusting!", "a disgrace", "a joke"... i.e not anyone remotely affected by IF.


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥




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## coweyes

Tbh i can totally understand why others are against it, we need to remember that IF is like a different world to them.  Trying to explain our fertility journey or some of the things we face is like a whole different concept to people who have not been through it.  


I would be more than happy to play it but would not announce it.  But for me i don't announce that i have ivf anyway as i don't expect the general public to understand.  I do tell people when i get to know them but just don't like to be "out their with it all".  I have not got a problem with others being against it as long as they have the facts!  


Good luck to anyone who plays, do you know how you go about playing and when it starts??  xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## ilovesnow

coweyes I think you can buy tickets now on the website http://to-hatch.co.uk/



/links


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## VixiePie

I've just checked out the article, its odd, been a lottery, I'd hav never thought it possible, though I won't be ruling out buying a ticket lol  
What makes me sad is some of the responses on the link, especially the first one by Jennifer Howard, very judgemental and harsh, going as far a calling people who have IVF child abusers.  
Anyway, thats all I have to say about that. xxx


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## ilovesnow

VixiePie said:


> What makes me sad is some of the responses on the link, especially the first one by Jennifer Howard, very judgemental and harsh, going as far a calling people who have IVF child abusers.


She's a complete nutcase and commenting online on articles tends to attract nuts who have a chip on their shoulder anyway which is why I never read them.


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## VixiePie

Lol  very true xxx


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## Caz

Sorry but I find the comments - especially by that Jennifer Howard totally hilarious. In a sad, pathetic kind of way but neverthess... 

Honestly, there's only one reason why anyone would say something so utterly repulsive and controversial  - to everyone not just those who have fertility tx, because face it, she's basically saying anyone who wants their own child rather than to adopt one is a child abuser. It can only be done knowingly and for the sole purpose of winding people up and getting a reaction. 

So the only conclusion is Jennifer Howard is really some spotty faced teenager sitting in some dark bedroom next to a pile of soggy tissues and with way too much time on his hands (when he's not, y'know, filling up those tissues...   Troll troll troll... not even a good one at that! 
Let's hope that is the case because if she's a real person and those are real opinions... well, let's just say I hope she neither has children or adopts herself because heaven forbid she be allowed to pass her genes or opinions onto anyone else. 


Then again, the way the Telegraph has headlines it as a "baby lottery" and not an IVF one doesn't help. How many replies are there where it's clear none of them have read beyond the headline? Scary people out there... 


As for the IVF lottery... I guess it's always going to be something that will divide opinions. I, personally, don't see the problem with it. I think the majority of people who enter will have both a realistic idea of their chance of success with bot the lottery and any subsequent treatment should they win. As one person here said, what's the difference between doing the lottery and hoping to win enough to fund your tx, and doing this lottery?  

C~x


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## ilovesnow

Yeah that 'Jennifer' person is unlikely to be real I guess. I clicked on their name though and it takes you to a ******** persons profile with same name... maybe I should befriend her and find out what they're really about   Just kidding, i'm not that bored.

I agree though Caz, the whole slant on the "raffle" (as it should be known, I mean you buy a ticket where you can't choose the numbers then a ticket is picked at random seems to me more like a raffle than what we know as the 'lottery') being 'win a baby' is going to attract the critics. Talking to most people who have kind of heard the controversy lately, not many seem to actually know the facts about it. It's a shame that the media go to such lengths to discredit Camille Strachan.


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## L_ouise

I think it's a good idea, and the only hope for a lot of people, but i am hoping that it is a non-profit competition and i can't find where it says if it is or not  

If it is for profit then i do think it is slightly exploiting because people shouldn't make a profit where peoples emotional welfare is at risk - the desire for a baby might propmt people to play when maybe they can't afford to and that shouldn't be going into someone elses pocket.

Plus i think the odds of winning should be reflected by how many entrants are needed to pay for the treatment.

Basically i think it should be 100% for the benefit of the participants


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## KentishCat

According to this article she's setting up a lottery for cancer treatment now!!  

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2013052/IVF-lotto-lady-Camille-Strachan-Ill-launch-games-cancer-drugs-care-homes.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Quote from the article:



> _A company set up in 2008 under Ms Strachan's married name, Camille Richards, will manage the lottery on behalf of her charity and she has admitted she hopes it will earn enough money to pay her an undisclosed salary.
> 
> 'I don't know how much money I will make. That's not forefront in my mind and I'll pay myself after everything else has been done.'
> When told it sounded like a business model, she added: 'I'm a businesswoman and I've got to think about the future.'_


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## ilovesnow

KCat said:


> According to this article she's setting up a lottery for cancer treatment now!!
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2013052/IVF-lotto-lady-Camille-Strachan-Ill-launch-games-cancer-drugs-care-homes.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
> 
> Quote from the article:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A company set up in 2008 under Ms Strachan's married name, Camille Richards, will manage the lottery on behalf of her charity and she has admitted she hopes it will earn enough money to pay her an undisclosed salary.
> 
> 'I don't know how much money I will make. That's not forefront in my mind and I'll pay myself after everything else has been done.'
> When told it sounded like a business model, she added: 'I'm a businesswoman and I've got to think about the future.'_
Click to expand...

I don't know Camille face to face, however, I have contact with her online (not saying where) and I have spoken to her about the Daily Mail article, only because I was shocked about what they were saying...

Her response - she refused to give the Daily Mail an interview because of their reputation (no need for me to say what about as most people know not to believe what they write) and the Daily Mail decided to *totally make up that article* she said.

I see both KCat and Maisyz are commenting on that Daily Mail article... so just wanted to state that Camille's response to it was that it was totally made up, she NEVER has said anything about doing other lotteries or that she is making a sum of money from the ivf lottery... all of the proceeds of the tickets are displayed on to-hatch.co.uk clearly.

Oh and one more thing, she did have IVF which didn't work, then she had a natural pregnancy after years of Infertility. Does that mean that she has no experience of fertrility issues? I'm not trying to argue with anyone but I don't like people being misled by lies that thepapers have made up.


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## utb

ilovesnow, after what has been happening with regards to papers over the last few weeks i.e phone hacking etc your right you cant always believe what you read, however, surely if they have taken anything out of context etc with regards to Camille can she not sue the papers.

x x x x


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Kcat/maisy

Like i said before i know camille and like ilvesnow said, the mail lied about evertthing that was said, she didn;t do any interview with them/ also she did an interview on Daybreak and clearly said she is not doing any lottery for cancer or anything else. The lottery for IVF is an 'opportunity' for people to try for a baby, just like you and me. 

She did have IVF but after it failed she fell pg naturally like alot of people on FF. she has first hand expereince of IVF and IF, and was here on FF while it was all going on. 

Don't belive anyything the mail says, its renound for putting IVF down and lying. They have been hounding her family and trying to get pictures of her child.   

Give her a break and let her help people like us.


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Ilovesnow, i just realised i have almost repeated your post   

I don't understand the negative responses of people as camille is just like us all on FF and set up the hatch to pay back what she went through.


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## Caz

Well said ladies... Daily Mail... pah! 

Just to add to that, if she's running this lottery under the charity's name, she would, by law, have to declare all income and outgoings, including her own salary and payments made to any private company (including one she owns) for running it (if at all). I think if there's any "profit" to be made for her then it will be a clear and obvious one for all to see. 
And also, just to add, I think we're a bit spoilt with FF because it is largely free, with just a tiny income from ad revenue and charter membership. Compared to the cost of running just this site (over £300 a month by now) and all ongoing requirements like legal advice where necessary etc... I don't think it's sucha bad thing she's been entrepreneurial and safeguarding the future of her charity - which, face it, has been set up to support people just like ourselves.

Or put it another way; if Tony had done this and run a similar lottery through FF, would you buy a ticket then? 



utb said:


> ilovesnow, after what has been happening with regards to papers over the last few weeks i.e phone hacking etc your right you cant always believe what you read, however, surely if they have taken anything out of context etc with regards to Camille can she not sue the papers.
> 
> x x x x


I daresay she could but it costs a lot of money to bring a libel suit against a newspaper, even if you win. papers have a way of twisting the truth just enough to avoid being sued, and pushing their luck with those they know have no means of come back. ;-\

C~x


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## **Ali**

As you say you should not believe anything that is written in the press. As a Charity I am sure it is all above board.
Like Mini & Ilovesnow, I know Camille and she is a very genuine person who does not need all this hounding by the press or people who have/are going through IF issues


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## Fabulous Lady Lumps

I don't really understand why anybody who has suffered from IF would be so quick to judge a person who has set up a charity in order to help us? 


As the other ladies have said, Camille did suffer from IF herself and was very lucky to be able to fall pregnant naturally. This doesn't mean she didnt' suffer or that she doesn't sympathise with all of our journeys, successful or not. 


The papers always write trash about people, that's why they are always getting sued. Although I have now adopted after failed tx, I will be buying a lottery ticket in the hope that i'll win which will enable me to pass it onto one of the wonderful ladies i've met along the IF route so they might have the joy of children too.


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Caz- I was thinking the same about if Tony set up a lottery then I bet no one on FF would object. It's such a shame that some ffers are being so hurtful about another fellow ffer


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## babycrazy

Can i just say also, not all women who have had a natural conception are not cold hearted and unable to feel the pain of the infertile woman or those who suffer another sort of infertility, that of repeated MC..
I have from a young girl felt much sympathy to every women i heard of suffering these  tradgic and hurtfull experiences. I had 4 children naturally in 6yrs, but would have never of said or thought of some of the stupid and hurtfull things some Morons who comment in NP articles or say on TV panels.  I have since  been given only a taste of  IF & MC , if i had suffered this before having children I can honestly say i don't think i would have survived it.  I so admire you ladies who battle on for years and my own taste of this experience has deepened further my empathy for you all.
I was so angry when Anne Diamond appeared on the Wright stuff  last week saying having a baby is not a woman's wright   , well  after suffering the tragedy of SIDS, I thought she might have a little more understanding.    This woman was given the gift of another child soon after her sons death.  I wonder had she had difficulty in conceiving another baby that was meant for this earth would she have had this same attitude,  After all the pain of grieving is the same for the woman who wants to have a child as those who have lost a child.
I was a bit disappointed  like millions of others on Friday that i did not  clinch that £166 mil on the Euro,  I  did have a big sigh to the big man up above and said. "  I could of done a lot of good with that "  My plan if the finger said ITS YOU!  was to set up a charity for women mainly with unexplained to find the real reasons behind there IF/IF  MC,  helping them  with finances towards immune. investigations & TX with immune treatment, also to have a study set up as proof or not to immune treatment, so  if proven towards it that the price of the of  treatment comes down giving more couples the chance of a PG which comes to fruition.
ManyAngel Blessings On Your Journey To Motherhood.
XX
BC


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## ilovesnow

babycrazy said:


> I was a bit disappointed like millions of others on Friday that i did not clinch that £166 mil on the Euro, I did have a big sigh to the big man up above and said. " I could of done a lot of good with that " My plan if the finger said ITS YOU! was to set up a charity for women mainly with unexplained to find the real reasons behind there IF/IF MC, helping them with finances towards immune. investigations & TX with immune treatment, also to have a study set up as proof or not to immune treatment, so if proven towards it that the price of the of treatment comes down giving more couples the chance of a PG which comes to fruition.
> ManyAngel Blessings On Your Journey To Motherhood.
> XX
> BC


aww what a lovely thing to do if you won


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## lollipops

Caz,Earnest,ilovesnow,MightyMini and everyone else who is standing up for this lotto - I am with you! People need to chill out a bit! I for one will play the game!


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥




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## butterflykisses

any idea where we get the tickets from?.

                                        marie 76x


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## muffin1302

I'd like to know where to get tickets from too    I'm not entitiled to funding as my husband has a daughter so I dont really care what others think, I think its a great idea.


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## butterflykisses

muffin my husband has 2 daughters aswell there adults really now 22&19 so we have to pay too  /so i'll be giving it a go     .

                              lv marie 76xx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

They are on the hatch website


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## MissE

Hi. Was just wondering if any of you ladies were able to buy a ticket yet.
xx


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## muffin1302

Hey MissE.    
I had a look and I think tickets will be available from 30th July (unless I have read it wrong)


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## MissE

Hi muffin, how are you huni? Thats great thanks.  Will defintiely be buying one cos you never know.  

Emma xx


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## muffin1302

I'm ok, hope you're ok  
Defiantly gonna try it. I wrote to my mp and although he really has tried to help, the pct still won't budge and let me have any funding  
I'm beginning to think I will never get there   so I'll try anything!!!


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## MandyPandy

Hmmmm... having been quite an advocate of this at the start, I'm not so sure about it now.  Now there is much more information up on the site about it, it seems a bit... odd.

They have given the bottom line odds of winning at one million to one (meaning that the number of tickets sold in each raffle are 'limited' to one million).

They have also provided a breakdown of costs from the £20 ticket price.  £10 goes toward the prize fund.  On this basis, they would need to sell 2,500 tickets to break even.  This would create odds of two thousand, five hundred to one. 

Based on odds of one million to one, they would need to sell 1,000,000 tickets, meaning a prize fund of ten million pounds.  On the assumption that they do sell all 1,000,000 tickets, and the prize fund is only £25,000 where would the remaining £9,975,000 go?

I do appreciate that the odds will vary depending on the number of tickets sold, however, I doubt there would ever be as few as 2,500 tickets sold, given the sheer number of couples currently seeking fertility treatment.  This means there will always be a surplus of money in the prize fund.

I've asked for elaboration of the above from the site so I'm now waiting for their response.


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## Ginger Baby

Hi


Can anyone confirm if the Hatch Lottery has been post phoned.  Just logged on the website and there was a note on the left hand side saying it has been post phoned.


Thanks


Ginger


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## Caz

MandyPandy said:


> Hmmmm... having been quite an advocate of this at the start, I'm not so sure about it now. Now there is much more information up on the site about it, it seems a bit... odd.
> 
> They have given the bottom line odds of winning at one million to one (meaning that the number of tickets sold in each raffle are 'limited' to one million).
> 
> They have also provided a breakdown of costs from the £20 ticket price. £10 goes toward the prize fund. On this basis, they would need to sell 2,500 tickets to break even. This would create odds of two thousand, five hundred to one.
> 
> Based on odds of one million to one, they would need to sell 1,000,000 tickets, meaning a prize fund of ten million pounds. On the assumption that they do sell all 1,000,000 tickets, and the prize fund is only £25,000 where would the remaining £9,975,000 go?
> 
> I do appreciate that the odds will vary depending on the number of tickets sold, however, I doubt there would ever be as few as 2,500 tickets sold, given the sheer number of couples currently seeking fertility treatment. This means there will always be a surplus of money in the prize fund.
> 
> I've asked for elaboration of the above from the site so I'm now waiting for their response.


Not necessarily because probability doesn't work quite like that.

If they were holding a raffle/tombola style draw where you are given a ticket and the other half (with the same number) put in a pot then one pulled then your odds will be as great as however many tickets are bought. The more you buy the greater your overall odds because there's a greater chance that it will be one of your tickets drawn. but the more that are bought overall, the less your odds per ticket (probability maths is a bit complicated!) i.e. 10 tickets sold, you buy one, your chances are 10% (one in ten). You buy 2 tickets and your chances are 20% (one in five) etc. etc. etc...

However if their system is similar to the national lottery - you are given a sequence of numbers and then numbers individually drawn and you must match all of them to win - then the probability of winning will not change no matter how many tickets are sold. Say it's based on you matching 3 unique numbers between 1 and 9. You have only to calculate how many combinations of numbers there are in the 9 numbers to get your odds (1 2 3, 1 2 4, 1 2 5, 1 2 6 etc. etc. ) Actually there's a much simpler way of calculating it than that but my eyes glazed over a bit during that part at school! 

Anyway, the net result is that in a lotto style draw, your odds that any one ticket will be a winner will be static regardless of whether they sell 10 tickets or 10 million. But if you buy more than one ticket, your overall odds increase as there's more chance one of your tickets will match the numbers drawn. Of course this also means that potentially nobody will win on some weeks.

Clear as mud! 

C~x


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## pinkcat

Caz, that's really interesting about the odds. However, _if_ it is a national lottery style draw, then why would the prize fund be limited to £25000? _If_ £10 per ticket goes to the prize fund then they need to sell 2500 tickets, but if they sell more than that then where does the extra money go? In the national lottery, the prize fund increases if more tickets are sold dosn't it?

pinkcat


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## muffin1302

The more I hear about it, the more it sounds like a bit of a con


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## Caz

pinkcat said:


> Caz, that's really interesting about the odds. However, _if_ it is a national lottery style draw, then why would the prize fund be limited to £25000? _If_ £10 per ticket goes to the prize fund then they need to sell 2500 tickets, but if they sell more than that then where does the extra money go? In the national lottery, the prize fund increases if more tickets are sold dosn't it?
> 
> pinkcat


Well in theory if you set up a lottery you could limit the prize to whatever you want. The UK Lotto does in that it limits the Match3 prize to £10 regardless of how many people claim it. The other prizes are all variable but represent a percentage of the total prize fund which, initself, represent a percentage of the total sales of tickets. Premium Bonds (which is basically a slightly different lottery system) has a top prize capped at £1million; because of the way it works. Then odds on winning that top prize are something like 40billion to one but, the benefit is that you don't lose your stake (and most people get a 0.5 - 1% return each year on them).

Not that I'm looking at having tx anymore but if I was, personally the 1 million to one odds would put me off. 20 a week in a tin under your bed would net you £1040 a year never mind actually putting it somewhere that might make a bit of interest, so if you've got time on your side you may as well do that!

C~x


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## pinkpixie

Looks like this has been delayed anyway had a look to see if you can buy tickets yet but it is saying that it has been delayed


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## MandyPandy

Caz said:


> MandyPandy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm... having been quite an advocate of this at the start, I'm not so sure about it now. Now there is much more information up on the site about it, it seems a bit... odd.
> 
> They have given the bottom line odds of winning at one million to one (meaning that the number of tickets sold in each raffle are 'limited' to one million).
> 
> They have also provided a breakdown of costs from the £20 ticket price. £10 goes toward the prize fund. On this basis, they would need to sell 2,500 tickets to break even. This would create odds of two thousand, five hundred to one.
> 
> Based on odds of one million to one, they would need to sell 1,000,000 tickets, meaning a prize fund of ten million pounds. On the assumption that they do sell all 1,000,000 tickets, and the prize fund is only £25,000 where would the remaining £9,975,000 go?
> 
> I do appreciate that the odds will vary depending on the number of tickets sold, however, I doubt there would ever be as few as 2,500 tickets sold, given the sheer number of couples currently seeking fertility treatment. This means there will always be a surplus of money in the prize fund.
> 
> I've asked for elaboration of the above from the site so I'm now waiting for their response.
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily because probability doesn't work quite like that.
> 
> If they were holding a raffle/tombola style draw where you are given a ticket and the other half (with the same number) put in a pot then one pulled then your odds will be as great as however many tickets are bought. The more you buy the greater your overall odds because there's a greater chance that it will be one of your tickets drawn. but the more that are bought overall, the less your odds per ticket (probability maths is a bit complicated!) i.e. 10 tickets sold, you buy one, your chances are 10% (one in ten). You buy 2 tickets and your chances are 20% (one in five) etc. etc. etc...
> 
> However if their system is similar to the national lottery - you are given a sequence of numbers and then numbers individually drawn and you must match all of them to win - then the probability of winning will not change no matter how many tickets are sold. Say it's based on you matching 3 unique numbers between 1 and 9. You have only to calculate how many combinations of numbers there are in the 9 numbers to get your odds (1 2 3, 1 2 4, 1 2 5, 1 2 6 etc. etc. ) Actually there's a much simpler way of calculating it than that but my eyes glazed over a bit during that part at school!
> 
> Anyway, the net result is that in a lotto style draw, your odds that any one ticket will be a winner will be static regardless of whether they sell 10 tickets or 10 million. But if you buy more than one ticket, your overall odds increase as there's more chance one of your tickets will match the numbers drawn. Of course this also means that potentially nobody will win on some weeks.
> 
> Clear as mud!
> 
> C~x
Click to expand...

Thanks Caz - as you say, clear as mud! 

My understanding of it from their site was that it was like a raffle as opposed to the lottery style draw, i.e., you buy a ticket with a certain number on it then a random number generator, well, picks a number at random and if it matches your ticket then you're quids in (which is why I assumed odds of a million to one meant a million tickets had to be sold).

You are not allowed to pick your own numbers, the ticket you buy will have a number on it (approx. 5 digits) and that's that. That's why I assumed the odds were based on tickets sold as opposed to any complicated lottery style algorithm. Certainly this is borne out by the fact that someone MUST win the prize every time (gambling laws dictate this - it's also clarified on their website). Also, unlike the national lottery, this is a charity and I do think that they have an obligation to advise where any surplus funding will be headed. They have clearly set out how the money from each £20 ticket will be allocated (which I have no problem with) but they haven't said what happens with any excess in the prize pot over and above the £25k fund.

In any event, it would be nice if they responded to my question too - but thank you so much for trying to explain it. Maths is definitely not my strong point. 

As you say though, with odds of a million to one, you're better sticking the money in a bank account. It has certainly put me off.


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## MandyPandy

Caz said:


> pinkcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Caz, that's really interesting about the odds. However, _if_ it is a national lottery style draw, then why would the prize fund be limited to £25000? _If_ £10 per ticket goes to the prize fund then they need to sell 2500 tickets, but if they sell more than that then where does the extra money go? In the national lottery, the prize fund increases if more tickets are sold dosn't it?
> 
> pinkcat
> 
> 
> 
> Well in theory if you set up a lottery you could limit the prize to whatever you want. The UK Lotto does in that it limits the Match3 prize to £10 regardless of how many people claim it. The other prizes are all variable but represent a percentage of the total prize fund which, initself, represent a percentage of the total sales of tickets. Premium Bonds (which is basically a slightly different lottery system) has a top prize capped at £1million; because of the way it works. Then odds on winning that top prize are something like 40billion to one but, the benefit is that you don't lose your stake (and most people get a 0.5 - 1% return each year on them).
> 
> Not that I'm looking at having tx anymore but if I was, personally the 1 million to one odds would put me off. 20 a week in a tin under your bed would net you £1040 a year never mind actually putting it somewhere that might make a bit of interest, so if you've got time on your side you may as well do that!
> 
> C~x
Click to expand...

Oh I completely understand that, but they've been at pains to point out that it is not actually a lottery as such. As this is a charity there are very strict guidelines as to how it can be run. They have full details of it on their site (assuming anyone was interested in researching it ).


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## MandyPandy

pinkpixie said:


> Looks like this has been delayed anyway had a look to see if you can buy tickets yet but it is saying that it has been delayed


Yep. This is on their site:

'FOR REASONS BEYOND OUR CONTROL, IT HAS BEEN NECESSARY TO POSTPONE THE LAUNCH OF OUR LOTTERY.
WE WILL UPDATE THE WEBSITE AS SOON AS WE KNOW THE NEW LAUNCH DATE.'


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## Caz

MandyPandy said:


> My understanding of it from their site was that it was like a raffle as opposed to the lottery style draw, i.e., you buy a ticket with a certain number on it then a random number generator, well, picks a number at random and if it matches your ticket then you're quids in (which is why I assumed odds of a million to one meant a million tickets had to be sold).
> 
> You are not allowed to pick your own numbers, the ticket you buy will have a number on it (approx. 5 digits) and that's that. That's why I assumed the odds were based on tickets sold as opposed to any complicated lottery style algorithm. Certainly this is borne out by the fact that someone MUST win the prize every time (gambling laws dictate this - it's also clarified on their website). Also, unlike the national lottery, this is a charity and I do think that they have an obligation to advise where any surplus funding will be headed. They have clearly set out how the money from each £20 ticket will be allocated (which I have no problem with) but they haven't said what happens with any excess in the prize pot over and above the £25k fund.


Sounds more like how Premium bonds work if you ask me: http://www.nsandi.com/savings-premium-bonds

Well premium bonds but you don't get your initial stake back. 



MandyPandy said:


> Oh I completely understand that, but they've been at pains to point out that it is not actually a lottery as such. As this is a charity there are very strict guidelines as to how it can be run. They have full details of it on their site (assuming anyone was interested in researching it ).


Any way they paint it they would need to have some kind of gaming/gambling licence to do it. They can call it what they link but they need to make things like the odds and the method of the draw open and transparent for all. And, as you say, as a charity they are very strictly bound to declare all income etc.

I wonder what the issue is holding it up?

C~x


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## MandyPandy

I wonder what the issue is too.  Probably all the negative publicity they've been having has raised one or two things that need to be straightened out before they can start.


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## pinkcat

When Camille was interviewed on TV she said she had been given a gambling licence and that it would all be done within the law. 

This reminds me of when the couple in Devon decided to raffle their house instead of selling it....it to ages to get all the legal stuff sorted out and there were a couple of delays....it went ahead in the end though.


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## ilovesnow

oh I remember that pinkcat! my BIL bought a ticket I think! 

Yes as far as I'm aware Camille had the gambling license before one of the scumrag tabloids claimed she hadn't got one in place.


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