# Moral Dilema - embryos



## pipkin (Jan 14, 2005)

Hi all

I am not sure where to post this query/dilema so hopefully somebody will be able to help me or give me some advise.

We will shortly be starting ICSI and have our first appointment next week.  Basically mine is a moral dilema - I undertand that after a typical ICSI/IVF cycle you are left with some embryos left over which you can freeze.  If you become pregnant then I believe you can either decide to donate the embryos to another person, let them perish or donate to medical research.

My problem is this - I don't actaully like the thought of any of the above 3 options and would so much rather just have one egg fertilised with DP's sperm and if it does not take then request the clinic to try with the next egg.  That way I don't have to make this horrible decision.  Is this at all possible?  I desperately want a baby but this moral dilema won't leave my head.  We also only want one embryo put back.

I do hope I have not offended anyone by posting this question.  I just wanted to get it off my chest and see if anyone knows a way round this.  I will of course ask my clinic when we attend for consultation but wanted to know if anyone has ever raised this before themselves with a clinic?

Thank you very much for your help with this one and good luck and baby dust to all.

P


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## nicky30 (Sep 23, 2003)

Hi Pixie

It is a moral dilemma  - I found that too. I can only give you my personal opinion. Here goes:

With the still relatively low success rates for ICSI I opted for two embies to go back to give us our best possible chance. We were very very lucky to get frosties too ( alot of ladies don't get any). 

I would never leave my frosties to perish which is a very personal decision and I know people who have. If my 1st ICSI had worked (even if it had resulted in twins) we would have used the frosties later to give them a chance of life.

Unfortunately my ICSI did not work even with 2 Grade 1 embies so we are now to be reunited with our frosties in April (if they thaw OK).

I don't know the medical options re just trying to fertilise 1 egg and saving the other eggs. I believe egg freezing is not possible yet in the UK.

These are difficult moral/ethical decisions but remember most clinics are geared up to maximising your chances and will try to get as many good quality eggs and embryos as possible. 

If you are still very young your clinic may advise you that transferring 1 embie will still give you a good chance. We can all give you our personal views on here but your clinic will be best placed to advise you on this.

Good luck to you.

Nicky


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## SueL (Mar 22, 2002)

Pixie, good luck resolving your dilema.

Just wanted to say, it may be worth talking to your clinic about blastocyst?  Basically if you have a largish number of embies then they will try and grow them up to the latest point possible outside of the womb before they implant.  For example, they normally transfer embryo(s) back to you either 2 or 3 days after they have been collected from you.  If you grow them to day 5/6 it is a way of seeing which are the strongest embryo's.  This way may help your dilema a little?  We only had one replaced on our last cycle (it was the only one to survive growing to day 5/6).

Good luck
Love Sue
xx


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## Mookie (Aug 21, 2004)

Here's my personal opinion on this:

I have to say I don't think the clinic will just try to fertilise one egg at a time. As I understand it once you have your eggs collected they then have to be prepared for ICSI, ICSI'ed and then left for fertilisation to occur. I think that the first signs of fertilisation are many hours later. You usually ring the day after ec to find out which eggs are showing signs of fertilisation and then the following day you go back for et.

So lets say the clinic did just inject one egg and then the next day no fertilisation had occurred. Then, if they were doing them one by one, they would do the procedure again and you would wait again until the next day and so on. Eggs and sperm aren't designed to be out of the body for long I just can't see it working.

Then there is the cost implication. I would think that by doing them one by one you would be taking up much more of the embryologists time, they would have to store the sperm and eggs in between so I assume they would have to be frozen and all this won't be accounted for in the costs quoted and I would think you would have to pay extra.

Also it is important to remember that not all embryos are capable to become babies and this can't be seen under the microscope, they just can't tell. This is why they put two back in (as I understand it).

As for allowing embryo's to perish I do understand that it throws up moral dilemmas but also remember that in nature eggs and embryos do perish too.

I'd be very interested to hear what your clinic say about this.

I hope I haven't offended - just my thoughts.


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## Flopsy (Sep 18, 2003)

Hi Pixie,

You are not alone on this. In Italy legislation has been passed banning frozen embryos. Maybe a look through some Italian webpages will tell you what solutions/alternatives they found.

You could consider an IVF cycle with one egg only - often called a "natural cycle". Here's some info.

http://www.ivf-midland.co.uk/serv_naturalcycle.htm

The problem that you may have with the conventional "many eggs/sperm/embryos" method is that clinics tend to fertilise all the eggs and then see how many embryos survive until embryo transfer day.

The longer you leave the embies the more will die. Not sure how traumatic you will find this.

The practical problem with creating one embryo with one sperm and "waiting" will be getting the other raw material (eggs, sperm) to stay on hold until you get one embryo to transfer. I don't know how long eggs will stay "good" after harvest. Have a look and see what research you can find.

You are the customer and presumably paying for this? It's up to you to tell the clinic what to do and if they won't - find another clinic. It's up to you to decide how many cycles you want to go through to get pregnant and what risks you are prepared to take.

If all else fails you could consider the one egg method as above and just accept that at 7% it may take a few attempts.

Good luck!!


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## Ruth (Aug 6, 2004)

Pixie, can only agree with what has already been written. Just injecting one egg and then seeing if it fertilises is not an option as the other eggs will be past the point of injecting as their potential for fertilisation is a window of only 24 hours.

Ruth


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