# EEVA & GCRM



## whigers

Hello ladies,

We have just had a failed frozen cycle.  Our embryo didn't survive the thaw.  We have had 3 failed ICSI cycles so far.  We have been with ERI up to now.

I was at a conference on infertility on Saturday & heard about EEVA that GCRM do.

Has anyone else used EEVA at GCRM?  I know its fairly new.

We are very undecided about what to do next.  My gut feeling is that we should move to GCRM & try EEVA as this may then tell us if our embryos are ever going to be viable but at the same time, ERI seems to have the best success rates in Scotland but I don't know if this should be enough of a reason to stay.

Desperately looking for any help, guidance, support anyone can offer.

Thanks

Whigers x


----------



## Clairabella

Hi Whigers,

I have cycled with GCRM 3 times and used EEVA twice.  Our first cycle we had 6 perfect embryos on day 3 and by day 5 we only had one early blastocyst which resulted in a BFN.  The 2nd cycle and first we used EEVA we had 4 embryos that all looked the same and great quality, but EEVA had 2 as high predictors and 2 as low predictors, so we put the 2 high ones back, which resulted in a chemical pregnancy.  It was useful to make an extra distinction between the 4 though as an extra tool, and the 2 low predictors that they kept going in the lab didn't make it to blastocyst so the prediction proved true.

This cycle we used it again, but the software stopped working while my embryos were in the incubator!  I think we were just unlucky, but as it turned out we had 2 front runners on day 3 anyway and it would have been really obvious which to transfer even if we had the use of EEVA.

so in a nutshell,  it is useful as an extra tool but doesn't replace the expertise of the embryologists in the lab - but is useful for when your embryos are of an equivalent standard or if you have a high drop off rate after day 3 as they have continous pictures and can tell which are most likely to make it.  The staff at GCRM have been excellent through all our cycles, and I can't recommend them enough, either with or without EEVA

Good luck x


----------



## whigers

Hi Clairabella,

Thanks so much for your reply & congratulations on your BFP - you must be over the moon!!

Like you, we seem to have perfect looking embryos up until day 3 (Grade 1 which is the best at ERI) and then after that, they never seem to make it to blast.  Ours is male factor too so i've now got DP on extra strong vitamin C & E (on top of everything else he is taking!).

I guess at the moment they aren't sure if its implantation or the embryos just not making it, thats the problem.  I had a hysterscopy & endometrial scratch on the 28th January which I thought woud be perfet timing for our FET but as it didn't survive the thaw, I am now worried that if we go for treatment May time, I will need another scratch.  I saw in your diary that you had one.  Do they recommend that you have it the month before transfer?

My worry is that I am 38 in November, although my AMH is 9.3 (I think is pretty average for my age).  We have said that this 4th cycle should be our last but I am so not ready to give up yet.

That's a nightmare that the EEVA software stopped working on your 3rd cycle but at least it still resulted in your BFP.

Thanks again for your advice, its greatly appreciated & all the best with your pregnancy.

Whigers xxx


----------



## LM76

Hi Whigers and Clairabella, this is the 1 st time I've ever posted on fertility friends so I hope I get it right , I had my first consultation today with dr marco at the GCRM after 4 fresh and 1 frozen ICSI at Ninewells in Dundee. My AMH is 5 which is low for my age and he wants me to go on DHEA for 3 months and then he suggested EEVA, I feel quite nervous about this as he said EEVA will tell them which embryos are best but he also said it could give couples bad news too as the embryos could all be bad. I felt excited to be changing clinics but came away feeling a bit deflated. I am 36 and dh is 40, our problem was male related as I'm fine and had hysteroscopy and endometrial scratch before the last failed cycle, hope I'm making sense xx

Good luck Whigers and congratulations on your BFP Clairabella


----------



## whigers

Hi Lynzz,

Welcome to FF!  I've found it invaluable.  All the information & other ladies stories.  Its really great to be able to chat to people going through the same thing.  You certainly sound like you have had a rough time.

Its good to see you are moving to GCRM too.  We took ages deciding about what to do after our 3rd failed ICSI but EEVA at GCRM really sold it for us.  We were previously at ERI. Like you, we are male factor.  I also had a hsyterscopy & scratch last time but still no joy.
We are having a consultation with Professor Anderson in Edinburgh tonight.  My AMH was 9.3 with ERI but that was tested 2 years ago so I'm a bit nervous about what I will be told tonight (I had the blood test last week).  Like you, I am nervous that we will be told all our embryos are bad but for me, I feel that at least we will have some idea of where we are going wrong.  Up until now, we have been told our embryos are all top grade but its still not working.  If it turns out they are all bad, I guess we will have to decide whether we carry on or we look at donor egg/sperm.  DH & I have chatted about this but it still terrifies me.  

I have heard that the DHEA is supposed to be really great in helping raise your AMH so this could make a difference for you.  Where do you buy the DHEA?

Does your DH take any supplements?  My DH has been on a variety of things but we just got the results of his latest test from GCRM and there is absolutely no difference in his sample - frustrating!  Have you noticed any variation in your DH's samples over time?

Try to keep positive, I know how hard it is but I think by moving clinics you've made a great change.

Take care.

Whigers  xxx


----------



## LM76

Hi Whigers,

Good luck tonight at your appointment, I think when we go for our consents appointment we will be using the Edinburgh clinic as its much closer for us, we are 2 hours from Glasgow, so will just go to Glasgow for the EC and ER. 

I have ordered the DHEA from a website called pricespower which is where dr Marco suggested, it works out at about £80 or so, another expense  .

My dh hasn't been taking any vitamins, the dr said there would be no point.

how was your AMH level? Mine hadn't changed at all since the last time it was checked, phew!

I'm still having thoughts about my appointment yesterday at the Gcrm, I'm now thinking of lots of questions I forgot to ask, think this EEVA thing just freaked me out a bit, think I will write a wee list and email the doctor

hope all is well

Lynzz xxx


----------



## Jules13

Hi ladies hope you don't mind me joining in but I thought I'd share my experience with you...,

In July last year I had my first cycle with GCRM. I found the clinic and staff brilliant and wouldn't hestlitate to recommend them to anyone. Anyway on that first cycle I produced 3 eggs. They all fertilised and I got a bfp but sadly lost it at 6 weeks.

We decided to try again straight away as I felt that time was against me and my amh was low so we contacted the clinic and had a consultation with marco. He suggested I try DHEA for 3 months before I cycle again to see if there was a chance I would produce more eggs second time round. I actually only used DHEA for 2 months Cos the clinic was closed at Xmas and I wanted to make sure I would have EC and ET before the Xmas holidays. So despite only popping the pills for 2 months I went ahead with my second cycle and produced 8 eggs! They all fertilised and the embryologist said they were all better quality too. Unfortunately I got a bfn but I'm convinced the DHEA worked for me. 

I'm actually midway through my third cycle and still taking DHEA. I haven't used EEVA yet as I've only ever had day2 transfers and on day 2 there's always been two clear runners with my embies. Some divide too fast or too slow but I've been fortunate enough to have two good ones to transfer on the day without having to use EEVA. If I was ever blessed with a good batch of good quality embies then I'd use EEVA to predict the best. 

Lots of luck up you in the future x


----------



## LM76

Hi Jules13,

It's so hard isn't it  

The dhea does seem to make a huge difference, I can't wait for mine to come, I hope they are not too big as I'm rubbish at swallowing pills. In the past I've had 6 - 8 eggs and usually end up with 2 to put back in, which the embryologist has always told us were good embryos, obviously not that good as I seem to bleed at day 9 or 10, although last time I only made it to day 7, that was with Ninewells in Dundee. I mentioned dhea to them and they had never heard of it, I've had blood tests to check for killer cells and blood clotting but they came back fine, so I decided it was time for a change and a couple of friends had success with the gcrm so we decided to give it a go, I've to phone up for a consents appointment in June so hopefully start in July.

Good luck with your third cycle, keeping fx for you 


Lynzz xxxx


----------



## whigers

Wierdly enough my AMH came back at 15.1 which is a jump up from 9.1 when it was taken 2 years ago at ERI!  I didn't realise it could go up - I thought as I was 2 years older it would have gone down so surprised.

Our consultants appointment went well, we saw Professor Anderson.  He was great.  He did say EEVA was a good option for us but he also suggested PGS (pre-genetic screening).  This scared me a bit & its an extra £2,500! Apparently it only tells you about the egg though so not sure we'll do it, apart from the fact that we can't afford it!

Lynzz - I'd definitely email the doctor if you have more questions.  Rather you do that than you go crazy with lots of thoughts & queries.  

Jules - DHEA really does sound great.  I'm not sure I need it now my AHM seems to have jumped up, the consultant didnt mention it yesterday.  I may still ask when we are back for our consents forms on Friday though.

Have either of you got to day 5 blastocycsts?  We never seem to get past day 3 with our embryos.  Have you ever been told to consider PGS?

Take care.

Whigers xxx


----------



## LM76

Hi, Whigers that's good news about your AMH going up, you probably won't need dhea as our consultant said it was for women with an AMH of 7 or under.

3 out of my 4 fresh cycles we had blastocysts, still never worked for us though, I phoned up the gcrm today to pay for our ICSI as the price goes up from the 1st of April, so we've saved about £500, even though we won't be going through anything for a few months yet. I've never been told to try PGS but don't think my old clinic did that either.

Think I will email the doctor tomorrow, I'll write out a list of questions tonight

Made my consents appointment for the end of June which seems ages away, but really want to try and give it our best shot with the dhea.

Hope your well

Lynzz xxx


----------



## LilyFlower..

Lynzz, just thought I'd pop in and say hi since I was at Ninewells too for 3 failed cycles.  Sounds a similar experience that I had.  I never made it to testing day without bleeding nor even 14dpo, so similar to yours.  I ended up leaving as I felt they basically couldn't do anything further for me.  In the end they said I had bad eggs and should consider donar eggs, even though initially it was male factor.

You'll love the GCRM.  I can't wait for you to see the different.  BTW just a little tip, I used to stay in Blairgowrie and did all my scans etc in Glasgow as I found it easier than Edinburgh ;-)

Good luck everyone, I think I may be cycling June/July and we are hoping to maybe use EEVA then.


----------



## LM76

Hi Lilyflower,

Glad I'm not the only one that had a bad experience with ninewells, mind you after 5 transfers you begin to loose hope. We went to the gcrm for a consultation on Monday and at the moment we feel we are no further forward than we were at ninewells, I forgot to ask so many questions, my mind went blank. I've been reading lots of posts on here and they are all very positive so we are defo going to go with them.

It takes us 2 and 1/2 hours to get to Glasgow and just over an hour to Edinburgh as we are in fife, we will just do the scans at Edinburgh.

How many cycles have you had at Glasgow and how did you get on?

I'm still not sure about eeva, need some time to really think about that.

Lynzz xxx


----------



## LM76

Sorry Lilyflower, just read that you had 2 bio chemical, not sure what that is xxxx


----------



## LilyFlower..

We didn't have much luck with Ninewells.  Here's a quick rundown:

1st cycle - they did IVF, I thought it would be ICSI and we had no fertilization after 24 hours, a further 24 hours we had one 3 cell and that was transferred day 2.  In hindsight and what I know now, there is NO WAY I should have had that transferred back.  Obviously a BFN and no frosties.  AF came before 14DPO

2nd cycle - they did ICSI and we got 8 out of 9 fertilized.  Two day three embies transferred back.  No frosties, they didn't make it to blast. BFN and AF came before 14DPO again.

3rd cycle - ICSI and out of 6 eggs only 1 fertilized.  A day two transfer again.  BFN and AF came before 14DPO yet again.

As I said FS said I had a problem with my eggs due to the last fertilization problems.  Although why did fertilization seem ok on cycle two and then he says that?  I blame the long protocol and embryolist.  At our follow up appt I ended up walking out, FS was useless in my eyes and had no answers.

So we went to the GCRM to see what they were saying.  Did one cycle last June and I got 6 eggs doing the Flare protocol as my AMH was borderline at 9.9, so I could have done long protocol.

3 out of 6 fertilized and they were perfect embryos.  I had two transferred back and the remaining one went to blast.  I was so excited!  Because of the frostie I thought that the two in me must be brilliant and really hoped I'd get my BFP but nope, I had the blood test the day before test day and sent it down in the post.  My blood beta level was 4.9.  Anything over 5 they count as a pregnancy.  Anything lower than that it's a chemical pregnancy which means the embryo did not attach.

In November I went back and did the FET.  It was a natural cycle so we did blood tests to determine when I ovulated and then went down 5 days after for ET.  All went really well, the embryo went through vetrification perfectly and by the time we got down to Glasgow it was starting to hatch.  Sadly again I had a chemical pregnancy.  I did a HPT on day of test day and got a little faint line, yip I thought this was it but nope, that night I felt ill and then AF came.  My beta levels were 13.9 and I was told I was pregnant.  It honestly was the most perfect day of my life and then it was all gone, just like that.

So anyway, we've managed to get some money and after I finish college in June I hope to get an edometrial scratch the cycle before ICSI as it's meant to help with implantation by up to 70%.  So I should hopefully be doing my fifth and final fresh cycle in July 2013.

We are thinking about EEVA but I'm not sure if it's worth it if we only get a small number of eggs again, however if we do it, at least we'll know if there is a problem with the eggs rather than just not knowing.

Yes, you'll be better going to Edinburgh if you're in Fife, be alot easier I think.  Do you know what protocol they'll put you on yet, and will it be different from Ninewell's?  Ninewells were very stuck in a rutt and didn't seem to be up to date with things.  I mentioned DHEA to them and the FS said he didnt know anything about it.

I always hated when I visited Ninewells the nurses never let on that they'd seen you before.  Considering I'd had two IUI's even before the IVF's the nurses never took me on at all.  Nothing seemed very private either.  The whole EC and ET thing was pretty open with only a curtain between you and the others whilst you were waiting to be taken.

What other questions do you have, maybe we could help you out?


----------



## LM76

Wow, Lilyflower that's really bad the way they treated you at ninewells, I must admit we never had anything bad to say about the nurses, two of them actually greeted me like a long lost friend, and one of them used to give me a wee cuddle when she saw me, I actually told them that it was my last time with them and I think they agreed with me that it was time to try somewhere else.

I was on the long protocol twice and the short one twice, considering my AMH is 5 I'm now wondering why they put me on the long one, the first time I think I had 7 eggs, we went up on day 3 but the embryologist wanted to wait till day 5, we had 3 embryos at this stage that were good enough. We went up on day 5 and they put 2 back in and froze the other one. Af came on day 9 

They wanted us to have a FET with the other egg but I said I'd rather have a full cycle again and they agreed, got 6 eggs this time and 5 fertilised, got to day 5 and this time there were 2 eggs suitable, both blastocyst, we only put 1 back as they said they were really good, got to day 8 then af came

So then we had FET, that was really scary as on the morning of the transfer the embryologist phoned to say the first embryo they took out hadn't survived the thaw, but just to come up anyway, I was in such a state but it was fine and I had the transfer, this time I got the peseries instead of the gel, I was never told that I wouldn't get a bleed till after I did the pregnancy test with the peseries so I got all excited thinking it had worked, totally shocked when the test was bfn

Next time dr Lowe suggested the flare protocol, only got 4 eggs this time and had 2 put back on day 2, af came after 10 days

Another flare protocol, got 8 eggs, 6 injected and 4 embryos, went up on day 5, 2 had stopped developing and the other 2 looked good, we were never told what grade they were though, with any of the transfers come to think, the only thing they said was that our embryos seem to take that wee bit longer to develop but that was fine and nothing to worry about, had the 2 transferred and af came on day 7

I never ever felt hopeful at ninewells, so glad we've moved on, the questions I forgot to ask were, can it be something with the implantation that's wrong?  Also I've read that some women take blood thinners?  I've also read about assisted hatching?  And the scratch, I wondered if that would help me?

At least you got further on than any of your ninewells cycles, hopefully next time you get a BFP and it stays

Sorry I seem to be posting too much on this thread, thanks for your help though, I always looked at FF but never had the courage to join

Lynzz xxx


----------



## LilyFlower..

You've had a hard time too Lynzz, so sad that the likes of us have to go through loads of cycles before we understand things ourselves and start asking the right questions at the appropriate time.

Certainly with the comment, "our embryos seem to take that wee bit longer to develop but that was fine and nothing to worry about", I now think as with ours, it is something to worry about and that EEVA should assist with this. Each egg seemingly has to be at a certain stage at a certain point when developing. So EEVA should help us both with this. As I said in hingsight my cycle 1 should have just been written off, rather than me having an egg that only fertilized 48 hours after being put with the sperm, should not have happened. It wasn't developing right and I should not have given any hope. It was also a cycle we paid ourselves, so I would have preferred to have not had the transfer and got some money back to put towards another cycle!

At the GCRM I had clexane injections which is your blood thinners. They're not expensive so you should ask to have those.

I was also taking a little pill call prednisolone. This is a steroid that helps with immune issues. This is not expensive either so you could ask about that too.

And for implantation you could ask if you could get an endometrial scratch too. That's what I'm going to have this next time as I seem to be getting pregnant but it's just not hanging on!

Have you also had a look at a website I've just recently found it. It's called Catching Rainbows. It's really helped me alot since last bfn. http://www.catchingrainbowsfertility.co.uk/


----------



## whigers

Hello ladies,

I had the scratch at the end of January.  Apparently there are really great statistics to show that it does help with implantation.  You should definitely try to get it.  I had it whilst I was having a hysterscopy so it was under general anesthetic so not sure what happens at GCRM when you have it?

I tell you - you both seem to have had a rough time at Ninewells.    I was at ERI before GCRM and they were brilliant.  We are only really moving to GCRM because of EEVA.  So far, i've been really impressed with GCRM though.

I asked about the clexane & prednisolone for me but the consultant said he thinks that its going wrong for us before the embryos go back as although we seem to have a lot of embryos (10+) we always only ever have 2 or 3 left by day 3.

I'm going to ask about assisted hatching at our consents appointment this afternoon so i'll let you know what they say.

Take care

Whigers xxx


----------



## LilyFlower..

Ah thanks for your response Whigers!

I had the same problem with Ninewells that the eggs I did have on cycle 2 just didn't make it to day 5.  I had 6 left but they just were not of good quality.

I think maybe moving to the GCRM you'll see a difference.  What protocol are you going to be on, do you know that yet.  I was always on the Long protocol but GCRM changed me to the flare protocol and that made a huge difference to the quality of the tiny amount of eggs I did get.

I asked about assisted hatching and they said they'd make a decision when they saw the eggs and prior to implantation, so its good they wait and see rather than make a decision about these things before even seeing the embryos.  

I do recall the embryologist said that my eggs didn't need it, the zinola (or whatever it's called) wasn't thick and looked good, no need for assisted hatching.

Best of luck with your consents appt!


----------



## Jules13

Hi ladies what a terrible time you had at the previous clinic, you'll feel like you're in better hands at GCRM. I felt that the staff treat you like you're their only patient and even when I miscarried they were so sympathetic and understanding- unlike the NHS staff at my local early pregnancy clinic. 

Re clexane - I was also told it may help me so I took it with my second cycle (after mc with my first cycle) and took it from day1 of ET. GCRM charged me £4 per injection and suggested I take it daily throughout my 2ww and then through my pregnancy if I gotta bfp. £4 per day doesn't sound much but when it's added up it can be quite expensive. I called my own gp and asked if I got a bfp could she prescribe it to me on the NHS and she said yes so maybe this is something you could try too if u decide clexane would help you. (Btw it's the stingiest jag ever!)

I've also used assisted hatching at GCRM and felt it was right for us. I wanted to try everything possible to help get a bfp and on the day of ET I had 2 embies left, one of which was normal and the other had a slightly thick outter layer (zona?) so we decided to have one put back naturally and the other got assisted. That cycle resulted in a bfp but we'll never know which embie implanted so I can't say for sure if it was down to the assisted hatching or not but I'd still do it again if I had the chance. 

Lots of luck to you ladies and good luck at consents! 

Xx


----------



## LM76

Ladies i feel so much better reading all your replies, when you go through this no one really understands except people going through it themselves. I'm lucky I've got two close friends, one who now has a wee girl from her 5 th cycle, (gcrm, her previous cycles were ninewells) and another friend who is starting out soon, she too is on dhea for 3 months, so it really helps speaking to them.

Thanks jules re the tip about the clexane, I'm going to ask about that. Hope your cycle is going good xx

Lilyflower, I'm certainly leaning more towards eeva now, I'm just scared that we are told that all of our eggs are bad, my dh tells me that I always look on the negative side of things and to think more positive, I'm going to have a look at that link you put up, thanks xx

Whigers, how did your consents appointment go? Xx

Lynzz xxx


----------



## LilyFlower..

Glad you're feeling better Lynzz about finding this thread!

Hope everyone is having a great Easter Weekend!  I've been helping OH paint the garage :-( but needs must!  This is just getting our house sorted as we moved with his job late last year.  It's on it's way to becoming a really nice home to welcome our LO!  (postitive thinking eh! ;-))


----------



## whigers

Morning ladies,

My consents appointment went well, I forgot just how much paperwork you have to sign!  So we are booked to start on my May period.  We would have liked to start this month but I am away for 3 days in May right around when egg collection would fall so we've had to delay for a month.  Anyone else going to be starting May time?

LilyFlower - I'm on the agonist protocol.  I had 2 cycles on this at ERI and 1 on flare.  I responded much better to the agonist. I take it flare is when you go straight into stimulation?  Its called short protocol at ERI but think its the same?  I got a lot less eggs on the flare and our embryo quality was much poorer.  I also asked about assisted hatching & we've paid up front for it but like you say, they'll make a decision when they see the embryos, if we don't need it, we get refunded the £250.

Jules13 - yes, we want to thow everything at this cycle so having EEVA, assisted hatching (if needed) and I'm going to have another scratch.  I had one back in January before my FET which was planned for February but our 1 wee embryo didn't survive the thaw.  I'm booked in for another scratch later this month.  I see you moved to GRI for your third cycle.  Hows it going there?

Lynzz - Yes it makes a huge difference having a friend who has been through it all.  Even although family & friends are great at listening and trying to offer advice, I find that they never trully understand.  I have 1 friend who went through ICSI 3 years ago and has a lovely wee boy from it.  She's been my rock.    Our consents appointment went well.  The nurse was so lovely.  I really do now feel like we made the right decision moving clinics.  She did explain however that they only ever have space for 4 patients embryos in EEVA at one time & if that was to happen for us, we couldn't use it.  I am now worrying about this.  I would be gutted if this happened as its the main reason we moved to GCRM. Fingers & toes crossed this doesn't happen!  The nurse wasn't sure why my AMH has gone up other than the reading from ERI was measured in a different format.  Who knows!  We're definitely not going to have the PGS.  I think if it could tell us about the egg and sperm we would go for it but as its only giving us half the picture (& for £2,500 extra!), we'll leave it for now.
Everything else was fine & we paid on Friday too so we just got in before the prices all go up!  Like you, I am also worried that from EEVA we find out that all our embryos are duds but I just can't cope going through another cycle with no answers to why its not working.  If EEVA does tell us that our embryos are not the best, at least we are a bit more wiser as to where we are going wrong & if there is anything we can do to improve them. 

Hope you all had a happy easter!

Take care

Whigers xxxx


----------



## LM76

Glad your consents appointment went well Whigers, we've got ours booked for the Edinburgh clinic in June, then hopefully starting in July, I'm still waiting on my dhea coming, got an email saying it has been dispatched so should come this week.

Try not to worry about the EEVA thing, the doctor explained it to us too about it only having space for 4 people, he said its never happened yet that it's been too full at the one time. You're right about it being better finding out either way about the quality of the embryos.

Like you I paid for my treatment before the end of march to save some money

Hope everyone else is doing ok

Lynzz xxx


----------



## LilyFlower..

I wish I knew about the prices going up earlier and I could have paid in advance too maybe!  Oh well...

I'm not really sure if the flare protocol is the same as something else...I've only ever done the long protocol and then this.

I'm hoping to do another cycle in June/July but I haven't worked out any dates.  I'll maybe have a look at these soon.  My problem is I'm finishing college at the beginning of June and really need to look for a job but at the same time I want to get pregnant but I know I'll need to take time off work, if I have a job, to actually do that.  And if I sign on I have to tell them I'm going out of "the area" for medical treatment and they'll no doubt want to know what I'm doing!  I feel this is very unfair as anyone else doesn't have to tell them they are ttc :-(


----------



## LM76

Hi Lilyflower, it was just luck that dr marco mentioned to us about the prices going up from the 1st of April.

It's not fair that you have to explain why you need time off work when it is such a private thing to go through, and in my experience I find it hard when people know and keep asking you how you are feeling, when you don't want to be reminded of it all the time.

I've decided that I'm only telling our parents the next time and I quite lucky that I work for myself so don't have to explain why I need time of work.

Lynzz xxx


----------



## duffy7

Hi all

Sorry to hear of your hard times & difficulties with other clinics.

Im currenytly stimming right now with gcrm and hoping to use eeva.

I have history or recirrent miscarriage so using eeva to see if its an embryo problem or something with my womb. Hoping the latter aswe are using a surrogate.

I think eeva is good for us but terrified it shows bad embryos as then even surrogacy wouldnt work with us.

Good luck x


----------



## LM76

Hi Duffy,

Good luck with your cycle, we are still thinking lots about the EEVA thing, we've got a couple of months yet to decide what to do, just started taking my DHEA, I'll be interested to hear about how it goes for you using EEVA, hope everything works out for you.

Lynzz xxx


----------



## duffy7

thanks lynzz

I'll let you know how it goes with EEva....EG is friday eeeeek!


----------



## LM76

Good luck for Friday Duffy, I'll be thinking about you

Lynzz xxx


----------



## Cruix

Hi Ladies,

I'm finding this thread very interesting. 

I've read some ladies having had an Endometrium scratch. Can I ask where you have had it done and how much does it cost?

Thank you,
Cruix.


----------



## LilyFlower..

Not sure where else you can get this done, but the GCRM in Glasgow do this procedure.  I think it costs around £80 but I'm not sure for definite.


----------



## LM76

I had it done at ninewells while having a hysteroscopy, it still didn't help me  . Think I might ask about it again though

Lynzz xxx


----------



## LilyFlower..

Aww I'm sorry Lynzz...

I've just been reading about Co-Enzyme Q10 and helping with implantation on the Catching Rainbows website. Here's the link http://www.catchingrainbowsfertility.co.uk/2013/04/co-enzyme-q10-for-fertility/

I used to take the Zita West vitamins but have just gone onto the Wellwoman ones (mainly as they are cheaper) but they don't have this Co-Enzyme Q10, so I think I'll get some from H&B when I next pass.


----------



## LM76

Thanks for the link Lilyflower, I had a wee look and it looks good.

Been on my dhea now for a week, thank goodness the hair loss and acne haven't happened to me yet, hopefully it won't happen.

Are you going to get the scratch done this time?

Duffy how did you get on today?

Hope everyone else is fine

Lynzz xxx


----------



## LilyFlower..

Yes I hope to get a scratch this next time. Fx'd it does the job. 

Ive been taking DHEA since 1st April, so far maybe ive had a slightly sore stomach but nothing else, thankfully! 

Yeah Duffy how did it go?


----------



## whigers

Hello ladies,
Sorry I've not been on here a while, been hectic at work!

Hi Duffy - sorry to hear about your recurrent miscarriage. It must be devastating. How did you get on yesterday? Did you use EEVA? I hope everything went well for you. 

Hello Cruix - I've also had a scratch with a hysterscopy back in January, I was supposed to have a FET in Feb but our wee embryo didn't survive the thaw. I'm now booked in for a scratch at GCRM on 27th April. It costs £85 & it's fairly straight forward I think. The receptionist said its quite like a smear but to take a couple of neurofen 2 hours before I have it as I may get some cramping. I have to go back to work after so I hope it's not too bad!

Lilyflower - I take the Co-enzyme Q10. I'm also on the Zita West Vitafem but take an extra 60mg of it so think I get 90mg a day in total. I seem to spend a fortune on supplements just now as does DH! The other one I take is Zita West vital DHA. 

AFM I'm waiting on next period to come then I call GCRM to get a date for my prostrap. I've never cycled at GCRM before so hoping they will work their magic!!

Hope everyone is well.


Whigers xxx


----------



## Cruix

Good afternoon ladies,

Thank you very much for your replies and information on the endo scratch. I'm going to call the GCRM and hope that they will do it for me. I'm not cycyling with them but I have had many scans and blood tests there in the past. 

Thank you again. This is a tough journey for each of us. It's great to see such solidarity and helpfulness. 
Cruix.


----------



## duffy7

Hey girls, hope you all well and thank for thinking of me.

Ok here we go......12 follies, 8 eggs, 7 fertilised.

Day 3: 

EEVA predicted 3 "high" & 4 "low" but  after examination the lab staff thought 2 "low"s should actually have been "high"
Embryologist did tell me before EC that EEVA will be changing to predict HIGH, MED, LOW as some that are just slightly out EEVA's HIGH time bracket can be good quality.

So one 8 cell embie transfered to surrogate's tummy!!


----------



## duffy7

ooops hit return too soon.

Day 5: 3 blasts frozen

EEVA Day3 prediction      Embryologist Day3 prediction                    blasto grade

    low                                          low                                            5AA 
    high                                        high                                          2BA
    low                                          high                                          4AA


not sure if you girls are geeky like me but graded in 3 categories, 1st number is hatching (1 low, 5 best)  then letters A best C lowest.

So Ive got a brilliant 5AA, (almost the best you could get) yet both the lab staff and EEVA said it was a low predictor and the other "low" EEVA is a pretty good blasto whereas EEVAs "high" isnt as good.

So its just shows you, nature doesnt always agree with science!!!


The other 3 are blasto too but dont look as good so are being taken to day 6 to see if worth freezing or not.

hmmmmmm, not so convinced about EEVA now. (hope we've picked the best embie fro ET........maybe shouldnt have bother with EEVA and gone to day5)


i hope this makes sense and ive not rattled on too much. Just giving you full info incase you considering EEVa.

x


----------



## LilyFlower..

Thanks for the info. It'll definitely be interesting to see wgat the outcome is with using eeva. 

Good luck with everything.


----------



## LM76

Hi ladies

Duffy that sounds good to me, so confusing though, I was showing my husband your post and he said at least we've got a couple of months to think about it (eeva). Good luck keeping my fingers x for you.

How are you Lilyflower? You will be like me, just plodding along with the dhea 

Hope everyone else is doing ok

Lynzz xxx


----------



## LilyFlower..

Yeah, as u say, ploding along.  I've been taking DHEA since 1st April.  No real side affects which is great. AF due tomorrow so feeling a little blue and fed up though.


----------



## whigers

Thanks so much for posting your EEVA results Duffy. That's fab you got 8 eggs & 7 fertilised too!!! Have you got to blast stage before? We never seem to get past day 3. Did you decide on single transfer or did the clinic advise? We've been told single will be suggested to us but with 3 failed ICSI behind us I want 2 transferred. 

I'm a bit confused by the whole EEVA thing too but reckon we'll still use it. At least they do still look at what the embryologist suggests too. 

Hoping your 3 wee embryos get to day 6 & get frozen.

Take care.

Whigers x


----------



## LM76

Hi ladies, 

Just wondering how everyone is doing?

Just want to get started now, but just been on the dhea for 3 weeks, has anyone had really itchy skin with the dhea? It's driving me mad, I think that's what it must be because its just been happening since taking it.

Lynzz xxx


----------



## Jules13

Hi lynx can't say I had itchy skin, only thing I noticed was that my hair got really greasy no matter how much I washed it. Babtiste dry shampoo was a godsend lol. I'm no longer taking DHEA and my hair has returned to normal. Keep with it though, I recently got a bfp and I'm convinced the pills helped me get it! X


----------



## Jules13

Sorry my phone decided your name should be lynx not lynzz!


----------



## LM76

Hi jules, 

Congratulations on your BFP, going to stick with the pills, just have to put up with the itching, I'm hoping to get better results with the dhea, fingers x

Good luck with your pregnancy xxx


----------



## Jules13

Thanks and lots of luck to you too. Hope your bfp comes with this cycle xx


----------



## duffy7

Hey just a wee update.....our other 3 embies were day 6 blastos, good quality but a bit more hatched than they like for freezing (in previous post i though that the higher the number for hatching was better but apparently not if you are frezzing them). So they good quality but they just not sure if they will survive freeze and thaw process.

we also got a negative pregnancy test so   Onto second cycle this month though and much easier this time round...its a natural frozen embryo trasfer.

Still glad we did EEVa to give us the best picture we could get.

Good luck xx


----------



## whigers

Oh Duffy, so sorry to hear your bfn news.  Everything looked like it was going so well for you.  I so hope this next frozen cycle works for you.  

I went in last Wednesday for my scratch.  It was ok, its actually quite nippy when they do the procedure but its over so quickly.  They then started me there & then with my prostrap.  I wasn't expecting to start until the end of May but I'm actually pleased we've got the ball rolling now.  Feel ok so far on the prostrap, a bit grumpy today but not too bad.  When should I expect to feel side affects from it?  Dreading the old menopause symptoms kicking in!!  So it looks like egg retrieval will be about the 22nd May.

Hope everyone else is well.

Whigers xxx


----------



## LM76

Duffy I'm so sorry to hear your news, I've been thinking about you, good luck for next time though,  

It really is such a horrible thing to have to go through.

Whigers that's good news that you got started earlier than expected, think I'm going to ask for the scratch too, I'll try anything!  I've never had the prostrap injection but I'm getting it with my next cycle, I've only ever had the nasal spray before, good luck with the menopause symptoms. Hope everything goes well for you and you get your BFP this time x

Hope everyone else is doing fine

Lynzz xxx


----------



## LM76

Hi ladies

I'm going for my consents appointment later this month and still haven't decided about EEVA, has anyone had any luck with it so far? Really undecided what to do!

How is everyone else?

Lynzz xxx


----------



## Need1Miracle

Hi ladies, 

Great thread I hope you don't mine me joining in. It's my first time with GCRM and I've waited 7 months for this cycle. I'm undecided about EEVA as I've only had 1 embryo so will depend on this cycle. We signed our consent forms and paid our bill last month and had the run down on the protocol. I spoke with the nurse and she advised me to start taking metformin, which has gave me a dodgy belly, from time to time!! I was all excited about starting, then, phoned the clinic and apparently I've missed the boat this month. I had my bleed a week ago and I was meant to inform them! I have to start next bleed! : ( . So annoyed with myself. 

I've also heard mixed opinions on the flare protocol. What do you guys think? 

Thanks guys
X


----------



## LM76

Hi need1miracle

I've done the flare protocol twice now and I prefer it as its so quick, my amh level is 5 and I think anything below 7 they like you to do the flare.

We have also paid for this cycle but as I say we don't have the consents appointment until the 24 th June, as I've been on dhea for a few months to try and help egg and embryo quality.

What is metformin?

I'm not sure if I will be starting with my July or August period, I suppose they will tell me at the consents, dr macro said if the timing is right with my period they would start me right away. 

Good luck  

Lynzz xxx


----------



## whigers

We used EEVA at our first cycle with GCRM last month.  This is our 4th ICSI though, we were at ERI before.

We had 7 embryos.  On day 3, EEVA predicted 3 were high predictors, 4 low but the embryologist regraded one of the low predictors.  We then had 2 of the high predictors put back, a 7 cell and an 8 cell.  There was another 8 cell  but it was a low predictor so it wasn't put back.  At day 5, 2 embryos went to blast but not the ones EEVA predicted, it was one of the low predictors and then the one the embryologist regraded.  So EEVA wasn't that accurate for us but we have never gotten past day 3 with our embryos before so get 2 blasts and have them frozen was a major achievement.  I find out on Friday if i'm pregnant so we'll see then if EEVA was right about those 2.  I think for us the good thing about EEVA is the embryos are not disturbed at all during the first 3 days, so they are never taken out of the incubator and I think that in itself makes a huge difference.

I was on the long protocol.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Whigers x


----------



## LM76

Good luck for Friday whigers, do you think you will test early? Great news that you have two frozen blasts too but hopefully you won't be needing to use them yet.

I think I will just wait and see how many eggs I get first then decide if its worth using eeva.

Thanks for your help

Lynzz xxx


----------



## duffy7

whigers i see from your signature congrats are in order!!! fab news well done!

we are doing our 3rd FET next month and getting scratch to hopefully aid implantation xx


----------



## Need1Miracle

congratulations whiners..

Hi Lynzz, we have an appointment on the 17th where i will have my scan and blood test. I will hopefully start DR with Norethisterone. I'm now doing the Antagonist Protocol. 

xx


----------



## Need1Miracle

*Whigers - sorry, typo..


----------



## whigers

Thank you ladies! It still doesn't feel real although we have had a scan at 7 weeks 5 days & saw a heartbeat!  I'm now 9 weeks & counting the days until the 12 week scan! I have to pinch myself each day.

I so hope it works for you this time, I've got everything crossed for you.

Take care.

Whigers xxxxx


----------



## LM76

Hi ladies

Need1miracle, is the antagonist protocol the same as the flare?

I've been taking norethisterone but finished them on Friday, now waiting on a bleed, I'm hoping it comes as I'm booked into my gp's for prostap on Wednesday

Whigers you must be over the moon, so happy for you, keep us updated on your progress

Hope everyone else is doing fine

Lynzz xxx


----------



## evolutio

Hi,

I've had ICSI at GCRM and have been disappointed by their level of service. I have nothing to compare it with as they were the first clinic I went to. That said, I'd expect a supreme standard of service when paying private fees. From experience, the nurses are lovely, especially Pat. The lab team and the admin staff are pleasant, too. That said, there are some downsides about GCRM: communication seams to be a bit of an issue there. They are very good at the initial 'sales pitch' consultation, but I'm afraid the the post-treatment care is a bit redundant and feels like they are just about the numbers i.e. they don't want their figures to look bad.

In hindsight, I would have checked-out some others before committing to GCRM. It looks lovely when you first arrive into the place, floral wallpaper, no-one rushing around, but what matters is the service you receive from them, in particular the senior members of staff. 

Caveat emptor.


----------



## twjp

My wife I recently embarked our first assisted conception attempt and have gone with GCRM with added EEVA.  I think it's the flare protocol we used but not 100% on that.

EEVA graded one of our 5 embryos (from 7 eggs) "high" and this was implanted as a SET yesterday so fingers crossed!

I cannot stop looking at the video they gave us of the embryo developing from our EEVA footage.  On our very own branded EEVA USB stick too, on less!  

We'll know tomorrow whether the two "mediums" made to blastocyst stage and will then see if they can be frozen.  Well, I think this is the plan but to be honest it's a lot to take in! 

I have found everything about GCRM to be absolutely fantastic.  It's a lot of money and we really cannot afford it but I am glad we were lucky enough to be able to push the boat out rather than waiting on the NHS list.

Best of luck to you all.


----------



## LM76

Twjp, good luck to you and your wife. My husband and I were also with the gcrm and we thought they were great, totally different to my last clinic. We hoped to use eeva too but as we only had 3 eggs we didn't see the point. Anyway I was lucky that one of the embryos took and I'm now 28 weeks pregnant.

LM  x


----------



## whigers

Hello Twjp,

We also used GCRM for the first time after 3 failed cycles at ERI & we can't rate them high enough from their attention to detail and great customer service to their willingness to try something different. We also used EEVA & had 2 high predictors put back, both implanted, however, although there was only 1 heartbeat at 8 weeks, I am now sitting here typing this at 38 weeks pregnant.  We also got 2 top grade blastocysts frozen which is a first for us after 3 failed cycles with no frosties!

I wish you all the best & hope GCRM work their magic for you, you're in great hands.

Whigers x


----------



## twjp

That's great news Whigers.  Congratulations on your pregnancy and all the best with the remainder of it.

Thanks for the well wishes (same to you LM76!).

Funnily enough GCRM just called my wife to say that EEVA's "low" prediction embryos haven't made it and they are reserving judgement on the "mediums" until tomorrow to see if they hit the blastocyst stage.  These were fertilised on Friday/Saturday so it's not looking good on the freezing front!  

We had only a single embryo transferred so have fingers and toes crossed for it!


----------

