# FET with no cell division



## Mrs Birdy (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi all - Just received BFN today - 1st attempt ICSI.  

Quick question that's been bugging me....When the embryologist showed me my embryos, I was surprised that they hadn't divided. 

When I asked she simply said they would hopefully start dividing after the transfer. I have scrolled through pages of this site and everybody doing FET talks about 2, 4, 8 blastocyst transfer. I can't find anyone who didn't have cell division before transfer. My embies were only defrosted that morning and my FET was at 11.30am.

Does anyone else have a similar experience or have they heard of this from someone else?

Thanks in advance for any help and advice......


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

Sorry to hear about your BFN. 

If you only had them thawed a few hours before transfer then I would think that it would be too early to see if they divide.
My clinic like to wait a day between thawing and transfer to see which ones come out as stronger leaders. I know that they have done a thaw and transfer on the same day though, if it is necessary, and it is always done on the same day in the case of blastocysts. I don't know if this is standard practice for all clinics though.

Perhaps, at your review, you should ask whether your clinic would normally wait to see division between thaw and transfer, or whether this might be an option for any future FET you have, if required.

Caz


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## Mrs Birdy (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Caz,

Thank for taking the time to reply - just starting to get my head around BFN. Tried not to get my hopes up during the 2ww but there was always this glimmer that maybe it might just work.

I'm beginning to get the impression that most, if not all, clinics like to see some division before transfer, which is why I was surpised to see my embies at single cell stage.

I'll definitely ask the consultant this when I go back in for review (13th December). I've still got 11 embies in the freezer, and they've mentioned they want me to have  3 AF's before doing the next transfer - this seems like a long time, what do you think?

Thanks again for getting back to me and good luck yourself!

Cheers


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

Hi BFNs are hard. They don't get any easier either, but the rawness fades after a while and you'll feel ready to go again. Very hard not to get your hopes up during the 2ww I know.   

Are you saying that your embryos were at only one cell stage when they were frozen? Never heard of that before, I always assumed that they let them get to at least 4 cell stage before freezing? I'm not an expert though so it might be worth posting this question  on Ask A Nurse where more people might see it and respond.

As for transfer waiting between cycles, it seems every clinic gives its own advice regarding waiting bewteen cycles. 
Some ladies at my clinic have gone straight into a FET cycle off the back of a failed fresh cycle. I went straight into another fresh cycle after a failed one, with only one AF inbetween. The only time I was ever advised to wait for three AFs was after my m/c - which makes sense as this mucked my cycle up for quite a while. 

Are you having natural FET or is it medicated? If natural then I don't personally understand their reluctance to let you go again soon. Unless they are thinking from an emotional POV or due to the workload of the clinic itself.

I've probably given you plenty to ask at your review now. 

Take Care
C~x


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## Mrs Birdy (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Caz,

You've been a great help - yes they must have frozen the embies at single cell stage, which I thought stange and now you've confirmed my suspicions.

I'll go to Ask a Nurse and ensure that I have all my facts together before I go back.

If you glean anymore info let me know, in the meantime, I'll let you know what the consultant says - maybe the embryologist was having a bad day and froze them too early?

At the transfer, the embryologist was in quite a hurry, and as I had my legs up in the stirrups at this stage with DH by my side, it was not the time to have a debate about my embies!

Bye for now....and thanks again!

xx


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## Succotash (Feb 25, 2005)

Hi Mrs Birdy-

Sorry to hear about your BFN. Here's what I can remember. Freezing embryos at this stage is very common in the US, especially when there are many embryos. At this stage they are referred to as 2PN - 2 pronuclei. Casting my mind back, my recollection is that embryos frozen as 2PNs have a very high thaw survival rate, something like 90+% and I _think_ the pg rate is higher too. In the US I'm not sure when they transfer thawed 2PNs, whether they wait a few days for them to cleave or transfer at 2PN. If you google US sites you'll probably get loads of information.

Sorry can't be of further help.

Regards, Succotash


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## Mrs Birdy (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Succotash,

Many thanks for that feedback....all comments are welcome!

I've been doing some more research myself and understand that embryos can be frozen at any stage (pronucleate, early cleaved and blastocyst). If the embryos were frozen at cleaved or blastocyst stage then they can be thawed and replaced on the same day. 

However, if they were frozen at the two-pronucleate stage, then they should be thawed the day before and cultured overnight to allow them to divide and are replaced when they become 2-4 cell embryo.

I got this info off www.IVF-infertility.com.

So as you can see I'm concerned that maybe my clinic hasn't followed the normal procedure and will be very interested in understanding why...

I'll keep you posted!

Many thanks again...x


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## Goldilocks (Sep 20, 2005)

Hi Mrs Birdy

I am due to have my first FET next week and have been told my '2PN' embies (frozen 1 day after EC, due to the onset of OHSS) will be thawed the day before the transfer. 

I can understand why you want to ask questions of your clinic. Their decisions do seem rather odd. Do let us know what they say. I am sorry it was a BFN for you this time - I really hope it works for you on your next attempt.

Love Goldy


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## Mrs Birdy (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Goldy,

Good luck to you too! I also had OHSS and had to have all the embies frozen in July..

Fingers crossed for next week - keep yourself busy during the 2ww and it will fly by..

Let me know how you get on...

Love from Mrs Birdy


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