# Swine flu vaccine



## pippilongstockings (Dec 8, 2005)

Hello,

Sorry if you have been asked this about a hundred times!  Is the swine flu vaccine honestly, completely safe for pregnant women?  I've heard that there is a compound in it that may harm the unborn baby, is this true?  I know that one of the vaccines contains egg-based products that are not recommended for pregnant women, do you know which one this is?

Thanks in advance,
Pippi xx


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## mazv (Jul 31, 2006)

Hi Pippi,

There is nothing in life that is completely and utterly 100% risk free. All we can say is that risk can be avoided as much as possible by following certain procedures. No vaccines or medicines for that matter are ever tested in pregnancy (kind of hard to get the ethics approval or the insurance to cover the clincial trials to test stuff in pregnant woman  ) We do however know that using certain products/medicines etc. in pregnancy appear to do no harm. Pregnancy in itself is not a risk free experience for either the mother or the baby.

The swine flu vaccine is new but then every year the seasonal flu vaccine is new as it has to be made fresh depending on what strain of flu is in circulation. The techniques used to produce the swine flu vaccine are no different to those used for other inactivated vaccines. There are 2 brands of swine flu vaccine available; Pandemrix & Celvapan. As far as I'm aware the Pandemrix is the one that will be available first (this week) and it is this vaccine that should be used with caution in anyone with an allergy to eggs. It also contains Thiomersal, which if possible should be avoided in pregnancy (although it can be given if necessary) The DoH advice on thiomersal is as follows : _Children and pregnant women should preferably receive a thiomersal-free influenza vaccine. If a thiomersal-free vaccine is not available then a thiomersal-containing vaccine should be given. The benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks, if any, of exposure to thiomersal-containing vaccines._

The DoH produces a handbook for immunisation in the UK and I have left links to relevant chapters on 
contra-indications and special precautions  CLICK HERE  and Influenza (relating to seasonal flu)  CLICK HERE 

IMHO the health benefits of *ALL* vaccinations *far outweigh* any risks to the individual. I will be getting the swine flu vaccine as soon as possible, I will be getting my daughter vaccinated, telling my husband to get vaccinated, my family to get vaccinated and anyone I know to get vaccinated. You can probably tell where I stand on the issue of vaccination   However I am aware that is a personal choice and up to the individual to decide whether they think the risk/benefit ratio is right for them.

Hope this helps
Maz x

/links


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## pippilongstockings (Dec 8, 2005)

Thanks Maz.  I'm also very pro-vaccination but I've heard such scare stories about this one.  I guess it's difficult for me because we used donor sperm and do not know if the donor has an egg allergy.  Perhaps it would be sensible for me to wait until the thiomersal-free vaccine is available?  Do you have any idea when that will be?

Thank you very much for your reply, it really has helped.  I had my booking in appointment yesterday and the midwife was extremely unhelpful!  All she would say was that the DH were advising all pg women to be vaccinated.

Pippi x


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## mazv (Jul 31, 2006)

Hi Pippi,

I can understand your concerns re not knowing allergy status but as far as I know egg allergy isn't hereditary so shouldn't pose any additional risk. The egg free vaccine has been slower in production and not as much has been made (the company have used a new tchnology to produce this and have not been able to produce the volume they originally anticipated) At the moment it is the Pandemrix vaccine that is available but again not in the large quantities initally expected. The vaccination programme is starting and pregnant woman will be offered it in the first phase of the programme (so in the next few weeks) It will also depend on which vaccine individual health boards are purchasing as they can get either. 

I don't know yet if you would be able to decline one brand and be able to get the other one at a later date. The logistics for the NHS of offering mass vaccination campaigns means that it would be difficult to setup a recall system for those that decline any inital appoinment. Again it will all depend on what your individual PCT has set up. Midwife is correct that DH advice is for all pregnant woman to be vaccinated as they are at increased risk of complications from swine flu if contracted in 2nd & 3rd trimesters. Both vaccines have been licensed in pregnancy and will be offered as part of the vaccine programme.

My comment on the scare stories is that it's intersting to see how many of them are out there when the vacciantion campaign hasn't even started yet! Media hype scaring everyone so they can sell more papers when people are laid up in bed with swine flu  Sorry but the negativity around vaccinations is a huge bug bear of mine. I worked in rural Africa for 2 years and having seen what I have seen as a result of preventable communicable diseases then I have extremely strong opinions on the health benefits of vaccines to the entire global population. Apologies if I'm not able to be more objective on this subject  

Maz x


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## mazv (Jul 31, 2006)

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/924/0088302.pdf

For info, the above link is to the UK patient information leaflet on swine flu vaccine, might be useful for anyone reading 

Best wishes
Maz x

/links


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## pippilongstockings (Dec 8, 2005)

Thanks maz and please don't apologise for having strong opinions, I am very pro-vaccination usually myself.  I'm just so scared of damaging this baby  

I think I will go ahead with the vaccine, as I am more nervous of getting SF than I am of having the jab!  A friend of a friend died from swine flu a couple of weeks ago leaving behind a 2 year old daughter and the thought of that happening to my little boy terrifies me.  As you say, nothing is completely risk-free, I just need to weigh up the risks and benefits.

Thanks for your help  
P x


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## mazv (Jul 31, 2006)

Hi Pippi,

Sorry I replied to this last week but post doesn't seem to have worked   Am terribly sorry to hear of your friends friend   How tragic for all concerned, my thoughts are with her family   Glad you have managed to come to a decision that you feel is the right one for you in relation to vaccination   Wishing you all the best for the remainder of your (swine flu free) pregnancy    

Maz x

P.S. Just wanted to try and put some of the risks into context for anyone reading....

Swine flu vaccine (H1N1) has been put through rigorous clinical trials and granted a licence of basis of proven safety and efficacy. As with all medicines and vaccines there are reported side effects but these have not been reported in any greater volume or severity than usually seen with influenza vaccine. Swine flu vaccine IS licensed in pregnancy on basis of benefit to patient outweighing risk (although it wasn't initally used in pregnant women during the trials) There is evidence of safety of seasonal flu vaccine in pregnancy from previous vaccination campaigns.

Swine flu in pregnancy puts the mother and baby at greater risk of complications compared to non-pregnant women. There are no long term studies on the effects of contracting swine flu in pregnancy so we cannot say that contracting flu when pregnant is safe. Hospitalisation rates are higher in pregnant women and a small proportion of these require HDU/ITU specialist care. We do know that in extreme cases mothers and babies will die from complications arising from swine flu (there have been 3 deaths so far in Scotland, 2 of which had other underlying health problems that contributed to the increased risk)

As the H1N1 vaccine is newly licensed it is being intensively monitored by the regulatory authorities for medicines across the globe. Any sign of increased reporting of adverse effects (as opposed to known predictable side effects) will be looked at seriously and advice on use etc.. would be changed accordingly. Also in the UK the UK Teratology Info Service is actively recruiting women to a study to monitor the effects of swine flu during pregnancy to monitor the immediate and long term effects on physical and mental development of the child, as we do not know what these are, if any.

Side effects from the vaccine are generally self limiting and are what you would expect, local skin reaction (raised lump, redness, itching at site of injection) muscle pain, possible raised temp. Side effects from flu are absolutely hellish and generally involve about a week of bed rest as you can't physically move for feeling so wretched (if you weren't bed ridden then it wasn't flu you had!).

In general terms comparing risks of vaccination or contracting flu to other risky activities then getting into your car every morning and driving to work (which the vast majority of the population do) is a whole magnitude of risk above experiencing adverse effects from a vaccine or the flu.


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## pippilongstockings (Dec 8, 2005)

Thanks Maz,

Another quick question about the vaccine, hope you don't mind?

Someone on FF has posted that a medical professional told her that the vaccine can cause miscarriage due to a compound (thiomersal?) that boosts the immune system.  Is there any evidence to support this?

Thanks again,
P x


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## mazv (Jul 31, 2006)

*Absoluetly none!* Would love to know which evidence based medical data this little gem came from  Did they also tell them that the moon was made of cheese 

Thiomersal is used in the vaccine as a preservative and is not added to boost the immune response. In the Pandemrix vaccine it is the adjuvant (squalene) that is used for this purpose. If it was proven to cause miscarriage then it would eb contra-indicated for the entire global female population.

Maz x


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## pippilongstockings (Dec 8, 2005)

Thanks Maz, I'll post this response.....

P x


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## pippilongstockings (Dec 8, 2005)

Hi Maz,

Thought I'd let you know that I made my appt today for the SF vaccine - it's next Saturday.  Thanks for all your advice and help in coming to the decision, I really appreciate it.

P xx


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## mazv (Jul 31, 2006)

Hi Pippi,

Glad to hear you've been able to come to a decison that you are happy with. Wishing you all the best  

Maz x


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