# 30% chance or 50% chance???



## LP01 (Jan 9, 2012)

Ok so would you spend £8k and have just less than 30% chance of success or spend £14k and have 50% chance of success? When we only have £6k in the bank so the rest would be borrowed!


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## Cloudy (Jan 26, 2012)

The thing with % chance, in my opinion, is that it doesn't matter as it's all what's relevant to you. A clinic can have a high percentage because they only treat "easy" cases, or only use proven DEs, or some other reason. Another clinic can have a lower percentage because they take "difficult" cases, or use mild IVF etc.

I would go with whichever clinic I felt happiest with - and ignore the stats a bit!

Good luck xxx


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## Jam&amp;Cream (Jan 27, 2013)

I agree with *Cloudy*, stats don't really mean a great deal, I think it either will or it won't work.
On our fresh transfer they said 64% or it working, it didn't. Then on our fet 97% or successful thawing, it didn't. I think we were just unfortunate. 
Best of luck whatever you decide. X


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## FLC2013 (Nov 11, 2013)

Also, with % chances - don't forget that this is (usually) quoted as the % of women who start treatment and then have a live birth. Any cycle of IVF is made up of multiple stages - on a standard, long protocol cycle, you'll have DR, stimming, EC, fertilisation, embryo development, transfer and 2WW, then after that you need to make it through the 7 week scan and then all the other 'normal' bits of pregnancy.

Mathematically speaking, some patients will unfortunately be unsuccessful at all those stages, so every one that you pass through, your chances of success from that point on will rise, sometimes significantly. Once you make it to transfer, especially if you get to blastocyst, your odds of success would be considerably higher than 30%. Obviously it varies by clinic, and your particular fertility issues will certainly be a factor, but at our clinic for male factor cases in my age range, once we got to blastocyst transfer stage, our changes of success had risen from 34% to 67%. 

Jam&Cream is totally right though - unfortunately, just because the odds are good, that doesn't mean that you will definitely be successful. Medicine isn't maths, and your personal circumstances are hugely important in all this. Make your choice on where and what makes you feel most comfortable and confident - our clinic didn't have the best stats of the ones available to us, but it was the one most conveniently located, which meant our treatment was really low stress for me. I am sure this made a difference.


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## Me Myself and I (Dec 30, 2012)

I was given a 15% likelihood of success rate and the clinic tried to railroad me in UK into Ivf. Got pregnant with relatively low odds. 

A lot is IMO luck and how well your own progress is monitored.


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## bombsh3ll (Apr 19, 2012)

Hi LP01,

Is this a choice between 2 clinics, 2 diff types of treatment eg OE/OS vs donor, or some kind of multicycle/BOGOF deal?

If you've got 6k I would look at obtaining the best treatment you can for this amount. For 12k you could have two lots of 30% so this sounds better than getting into debt to spend 14k on 50% chance.

Best wishes,

B xxx


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## LP01 (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks guys for your replies. 

Yes it is the difference between the Lister clinic 30% and the ARGC 50% 

This is our 3rd time, didn't think we would do it even once let alone 3 times. 

I totally understand that the percentages are different for everyone and for the live birth result but there are pros and cons with each clinic. 

I obviously want to give us the best possible chance and if the ARGC has the best and most through treatments and results then surely we should go there.

But then...

We have done the lister before so know what to expect so won't be as stressful as the ARGC want to test and monitor you constantly but that is also a plus side. 

It's great that we could do the £8k lister once twice if we had to so two goes for the money so to speak but I'm 40 in April and getting concerned about that. 

I'm swaying towards the ARGC and my husband is more towards Lister.

We only really have 6-7k the rest would be borrowed but I just don't care....money is just money...we can afford to pay it back just breaks your heart that we haven't fallen naturally. 

Think we need to write down pros and cons, I'm so confused.


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## Jelliebabe (Jan 14, 2011)

Just to rock the boat - have you considered IVF abroad?  I'm going to Czech republic and its much cheaper with better results in some cases.  Also have you considered Donor eggs?  From the outset because of my age (now 40) we decided we would have to goes with my eggs then switch to donor.


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## LP01 (Jan 9, 2012)

Thankyou jelliebabe, yes I have thought about going abroad but really wouldn't know where to start. I thought London would have the best knowledge and research etc with results but then the most costs. 

I suppose I would just need a clinic that does the same procedure as the ARGC with immunes, monitoring and scratching etc 

Thanks for your advice xx


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## bombsh3ll (Apr 19, 2012)

LP01,

I went abroad FOR better treatment as the UK certainly isn't leading the race in terms of assisted conception. Jelliebabe's suggestion is worth some thought.

I had change out of 6k for a fresh DE cycle in Spain, would have been even less with OE. If you think you need immunes Serum in Greece may be a better place to go.

It really isn't nearly as hard or stressful as you think going abroad, in fact the cycle I did on my doorstep was much more hassle in terms of appointments scans & time off work, & ended in disaster anyway due to clinical negligence.

Have the Lister suggested doing anything different next time to improve your chances?

Best of luck,

B xxx


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## LP01 (Jan 9, 2012)

Hi Bombsh3ll

Thankyou. Yes I am a little unsure with going abroad as no idea where but I suppose after doing 2 ivf cycles we have a fair idea what we need. 

I have done a blood test with serum in Greece and had a little communication with them on email. Where I found we both had the Ureaplasma Infection and had a month of antibiotics. 
I may look into it a little more this weekend then. 

When do I need to be in Greece? Will I be going back and forwards? How is the flying with your body ESP after embryo transfer? 

Sorry your last one ended in disaster, it's such a tough time anyway without having the clinic mess things up. It's all so critical. 

No the lister have said they would do all the same again, I have just pushed that I would like uterus scratching. 


xxx


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## tillyturner (Nov 10, 2014)

Hi LP01

I totally understand where you are coming from, although I am now travelling abroad to AVA Peter in Russia for DE I also had IVF before this.

I would go with what the other ladies have said - besides 12K for IVF sounds really really expensive to me? I had a quick look for you and my clinic carries out IVF for £2900 then you have your meds ect so in total about 5K, they have 45-53% success rate dependant upon age!

i am using the clinic for DE as they offer the only chance to choose your own donor with photos which was important to me as I felt it gave me more control but for DE where the Dr matches you to the donor was only £7500 for 54% success rate so still good compared to many

Hope this gives you a little more info so you can compare )

Wishing you the best of luck hugs Tillyx


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## bombsh3ll (Apr 19, 2012)

Hi LP01,

For OE in Cyprus I went out there on day 10 of stimms, stayed there til 2 days after blast transfer so about 10 days in total. My partner came out the day before EC and went home the day after so 3 days for him.

For DE in Spain we both went out for our preliminaries in the July for 1 night, froze sperm, had bloods & a scan for me, then I went back alone in Sept for 5 days, travelling out the day after donor's EC and coming back 3 days after 3dt.

Compared with 2-3 weeks of downreg followed by 10 days of stimms with appointments every 1-2 days (which failed to prevent me being dangerously overstimulated) for our abandoned cycle at home.

Flying before or after embryo transfer is not a problem, they are happy for you to fly home the same day if you want.

B xxx


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## LP01 (Jan 9, 2012)

Thankyou all for your comments I really am grateful for the advice. 

I have got a phone consultation with Serum in Greece for the 26th jan so will ask all the questions and find out what they can do for us. 

If I'm not happy with what they say I think we are going to bite the bullet and go with ARGC London. 

Fingers crossed...this is our last chance...


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## Michimoo (Oct 13, 2011)

LP01 - I have had treatment at both ARGC & Serum.
Not got pg with either. However Serum got me to blastocyst & I had 2 frozen on my first go with them. This was after 2 failed with ARGC.
Percentages don't really mean anything as everyone is different. 
Serum will test all the same immunes which London do at 1/2 the price. Treating the immunes is 1/2 the price too.
If it's money dependant then Serum offer a 2 cycle offer at 4,000 Euros. 1 cycle is 3,000 euros. Therefore if the first fails the second attempt is just 1000 Euros which you have already paid for. It's still a lot cheaper than London. 
I don't have a bad word to say against ARGC. They are however extremely full on & completely different to any clinics protocols. It is like an ivf bootcamp & they own your life for 2 weeks solid. 

Even though neither clinic got me pg. I still rate both very highly for different reasons. 

Good luck in your decision. xx


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## LP01 (Jan 9, 2012)

Thankyou Michimoo that is really helpful.  
I'm sorry it hasn't worked out for you yet but keep going. It's so tough this long road but amazing that we can use this forum to speak to people who understand. 

Well I will see what serum say on the 26th. Depending on what they say I'm thinking maybe worth trying them first, we would be able to afford two goes at serum compared to one at ARGC. 
Such a tough descion. 

Selling my car today and getting a cheaper one tomorrow so that's another £5k in the kitty! Would rather use it wisely though. 

Thanks again all for your advice and comments. xxx


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## fififi (Mar 16, 2011)

LP - another thing you could consider is going to clinic outside of London that has good stats for your age group and type of IVF/ICSI you want. Prices will be much cheaper - I'm in East Midlands and looked at Care, Nottingham and Nurture, Nottingham which both have success rates of over 50% for majority patients. The cost of OE cycle IVF blastocyst transfer with meds, endo scratch, embryo glue is under £5000.
Look at the HFEA website to find success rates of clinics that were a sensible drive from you 
http://guide.hfea.gov.uk/guide/AdvancedSearch.aspx

Best of luck wherever you go x

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