# Advice please! Natural test cycle: immature follicules? Early ovulation???



## Ipomée (Oct 30, 2012)

I wanted to ask anyone for advice about early ovulation, immature follicules,  what I think I may be dealing with in a first natural test cycle… this is the first time I’ve been followed through a natural cycle, I’m currently on Day 14.

After two failed IVF attempts and two clinic rejections, I've found a fertility specialist who wants to follow my natural cycle and try IUI in following cycles. I was so happy to find a Dr. who is giving me a chance and not just pointing out everything negative about my situation, so here I am back in my own skin with hope.  

I was a IVF poor responder (6 follies, the dominant ended up being a cyst) sept 12 in an antagonist try and a long protocol (no response) Jan 13 and both cycles were cancelled and I was sent my way with no hope or solutions. The last Dr. told me my ovaries would never give me a baby. I'm ordering Julia Indichova's book ... 

I had my bad long protocol in Jan and had been on decapeptyl and gonal 300 for seven days. I was cancelled early Jan 11. It took 40 days for my cycle to come back. 

Now, I’m currently on a natural cycle observation to see what happens
My day 3 tests were :estradiol: 31, proges: 0,2, FSH: 15,5 (I know  ... )and LH: 7,1. The LH is a tad bit high for follicular phase but the others are in the range...

A couple of day ago, I feel like I've ovulated (day 12), I had good sticky cervical mucous for two days prior and tested LH positive with an OPK the same day, and felt the pain and pinch on the right side of my ovary. I've always had regular cycles, never missed a single period and almost always feel that ovulation pinch every month. I usually ovulate around the 17th-19th day of a 30-31 day cycle. 

Yesterday, I did the blood work and ultrasound with results: uterus 7mm; right ovary one follie 3mm; left ovary: one follie 5,5mm and one 4mm. I was praying that the Dr. would be seeing a big fat follie floating around the right side  but helas... He said my right ovary was "silent”. I could swear I felt it yell the day before!

The Day 13 blood work is:  :estradiol: 64, proges: 1,4, FSH: 13,8 and LH: 11,9. The results point to  ovulation or luteal phase or are just high for follecular phase. 
I've been tracking my BBT for this cycle. The morning I felt like I ovulated(day 12) it was 36.0 which was a drop from the two prior days, the following morning went up 36.2 and this morning 36.8 so maybe this is « post ovulation » phase according to the hormone results

I’m wondering if this means that, I ovulated an immature follicule or an invisible sack of nothing. If there was an egg my estrogen would be much higher I imagine…
Are my hormones just  messed up. I know in our 40’s our cycles act up. The Dr who did the ultrasound said I « haven’t » ovulated yet, but he didn’t see my exams and all he does is tell the my fert specialist Dr what he sees on the ultrasounds via fax… Maybe I haven’t ovulated and will, but then I don’t understand why I had the temp drop, the +LH the cervical mucous, the current pimply breakout and temp. rise… 

I was a poor IFV responder, does this mean that I’m a poor natural responder to my own hormones too ? I’m wondering if my prob is that I have a few day 3 antral follicules, but they don’t develop and  the dominant remains immature when I ovulate during my normal ovulating day 17-19ish. I’m wondering if my my ovaries are just failing and is this situation what they mean by ovarian failure ? Ovarian insufficiency ? --The reason the Dr told me my ovaries would never give me a baby ? 

I have to do another blood test on day 16, but no ultrasound for this natural cycle test round before the next appointment with the fert specialist in Paris…

Has anyone dealt with this kind of situation ?  Can anything be done ? The fert specialist isn’t going to do any stimms, because the French seem to be convinced that I will not respond at all, even though I’ve seem women on FF with higher fsh and lower amh have success with stimms.

He wants to try natural cycle IUI, because he said that there are better chances at my age (42) as a poor responder than with IVF, he said the IUI chance curve gives extra time for over 40’s than IVF. I’ve understood that he will try to help me correct my cycle once the prob has been identified to lengthen the cycle, I guess, to let the follicules develop « IF » they will. I’ve always felt ovulation, but don’t know what size follicule is actually ovulated if one is ovulated at all. 

I’m also wondering, maybe since I just did a cycle in Jan, my tired body needs a little more time to find its natural cycle, hormone-wise. The decapeptyl experience was horrible…definitely felt like it put my ovaries to sleep forever… gave me a taste of what to expect for menopause… I had done two months of estrogen priming and progesterone prior to the cycle to help with poor response, but following it when asking the Dr if I should keep taking the hormones, he told me supplementing with hormones will cause the organ to become lazy, I understand what he means if I compare it to the thyroid situation supplementing with thyroid hormones, it makes sense. I’m just wondering if the body takes a little longer to get over the stimm hormones, before it can have a normal cycle again.

This past day 3 test was the first time my estrogen was good 31 in the 21-251 follecular phase, the three times it has been tested before, it was only 12 or 13 even during stimms, so I’m hoping the lifestyle changes are helping something. The FSH did go down a point too from 16.8 to 15.5. 

I was doing acupuncture until last month, I’m taking homeopathic treatments and phytotherapy, I eat very healthy food and have been moving towards the alkaline regime, grow and chew wheat grass, Q10, vit E, primrose oil, etc. etc… I’ve quit drinking coffee and wine, walk a lot… I’m not over weight. I have a gilfriend who drinks like a fish and smokes like a train and got pregnant at 41 with no help or problems. I’m very happy for her, but Sheesh… 

I’m sorry this is long, I usually don’t say much but the barrage seems to have lifted in words and mentally and I can’t make sense of either… I hope this makes sense. Thank you for taking the time to read my long-winded confusion and if anyone has any advice from experience or a thread on the forum which may be a helpful place for me to go please help me find it. 

Blessings, love and courage to everyone in this very difficult rite of passage through womanhood.  

Ipomée


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## Ipomée (Oct 30, 2012)

Anyone


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## Ellie.st (Mar 11, 2005)

Hello Ipomee

I don't really know about your results but what I woul say is that if you just had an IVF cycle in January (if I am understanding correctly) then it is very possible that your system hasn't settled down yet after the drugs.  I found after my unsuccessful IVF cycles that it took at least three months for things to get back to normal.  

I see that you are already trying alot of complementary things.  I would suggest sticking with the acupuncture and also having a look at Zita West's book (Fertility and Conception) or her website for suggestions re diet and supplements.  We thought we had a healthy diet before we did this, but found ways to improve it.  Also, not sure about evening primrose oil - do you take it throughout your cycle as this might not be advisable?

Good luck

Ellie


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## Ipomée (Oct 30, 2012)

Thank you so much Ellie! 
That's enough encouragement to get me home, I'm writing from telephone, just had day 16 blood test and broke down in tears in front of the lab nurse. I look like a racoon and feel very lost. I was really wondering how I was going to make the drive home, 30 min of narrow winding roads. 
I did feel that the long protocol attempt in Jan did a serious number on my ovaries, system.
I do take primrose oil, but only since recently. I will call the acup.  Dr again...hé told me to wait and see the last visit. So, I felt like he was telling me he had done all he could. 
I haven't heard of the lady/author Zita West, you mentioned and will look her up.  I do feel I eat well, but something must be off because, my digestion is a mess... Than you again Ellie you really made my day, I can actually see what a beautiful day it is, I just have to wipe the mascara away  
Merci!!!!!
Impomée


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## Ellie.st (Mar 11, 2005)

Dear Ipomee
     It is all so hard (I remember well) but hang on in there.     

PS: Zita West also has a website with quite a bit of info, plus she offers consultations.  (I didn't actually have a consultation with her but I did follow the recommendations in her book.)  She is based in London.


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## Ipomée (Oct 30, 2012)

A big giant    to you Ellie!
My blood test came back and confirmed that I did ovulate, when I thought I did, which was too early. I'm going to go up to Paris for an appt. for next week. I didn't get to talk to the Dr., but the secretary said, as you mentioned too, that it may have been because of my recent stimm cycle. I have confidence in this Dr, because I feel like he believes that there is a chance, or at least that it is worth trying all we can with natural cycles, before I move on to ED if I decide too.
I also saw that my thyroid TSH is 0.07, when it is usually 2, I'm usually very hypo thyroid in symptoms and character, but my thyroid is acting up... I feel like my heart is going to burst, which at least keep me far away from coffee desires. I'm going to see an endocrinologist soon. 

Thank you Ellie for encouraging me to hang in there. I know I believe that it can happen. I'm certain you've been a beautiful example, a heroine! to so many of us to keep our courage and our hearts strong! 
 
Ipomée


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## Ellie.st (Mar 11, 2005)

Just to wish you good luck with your appointment in Paris next week, and hoping you get your thyroid sorted out too.     

Ellie


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## Ipomée (Oct 30, 2012)

Hello Ellie  and anyone reading,

Here is a little update since I saw that 200 + people have read the post even though it's a dialog between us, I hope the post can offer some info for others... 

I went to my Dr. last week and went over the tests. I did ovulate when I thought I did, which was early for me day 12. 
He said that it usually takes a while for ovulation to come back after decapeptyl. He said I'm a little "different" in an encouraging sort of way and said theat the uterine lining was good even on day 13. That day twelve time was the second time I ovulated since stopping the decap Jan 12. I'm currently day 3 of my cycle. 


The cycle was being monitored, because I have to do the Huhner test to see if my DH sperms can live in my environment, so I missed it and will try again this cycle and will at least trust my ovulation intuition in combo with an OPK and the mucus. 

He said that he will help me in the natural cycle if the follicules don't grow enough by prolonging my cycle, because I'm a poor responder to stimms with a FSH high of 16 (now 15). He doesn't want to use stimms. He is the first gyneco I've seen who is positive and I feel he wants to help me. 

Yesterday, I saw new endocrinologist as my former endo has ceased his practice since becoming very ill. 
I'm very happy with this woman. She was very encouraging too and was very thorough with the next blood exams, I don't feel so alone with my endocrine issues anymore, because they are being adressed. 

I've been so discouraged by the Drs, that I've been far outside of my skin since the  IVF adventure started. I'm feeling a little more like myself, finally. 


I'm hoping that maybe the positive things I've been doing a propos supplements, acupuncture, etc. have helped with my last test results in helping my ovulation and cycles jump start with enthusiasm  This was the first time my day 3 estrogen was in the normal range at 31, before it was very low at 12 or 17 with the range of: 21-251. My FSH went down a point too. 

For info: For three months, I've been taking Vitex (Angus Castus), chewing fresh grow wheat grass, doing acupuncture, taking  CQ10, Vit E, B complex vit, folic acid and have been taking a series of homeopathic medicines prescribed by my regular homeopathic gyneco. I've also been doing yoga.

I started skin brushing my ovaries in little circular motions with a cute little wooden hand "dry skin brush" I bought at boots when I went to London. They saw that as we get older, our ovaries may have problems with blood flow. I feel that the dry brushing does wonders for circulation in general, especially with my back problems, so it can help the ovaries too   

I'm going to look for some info...
  
Ipoméé


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## Ipomée (Oct 30, 2012)

This article offers info about dry brushing and the benefits for the circulatory/lymph system.

http://www.drramsey.com/articles/dry-brushing/

I looked on some other sites and found dry skin brushing info along with fertility massages. 
It does feel wonderful and helps my back pain and severe morning stiffness, so it should help the little ovaries with circulation too!!!

Ipoméé.

/links


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## Ellie.st (Mar 11, 2005)

Dear Ipomee
Sounds like things are going very positively for you, and I am glad that you have found doctors you feel at ease with and who are encouraging.  Keeping my fingers crossed for you.    

Ellie


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