# charlotte church



## talie

did anyone see the charlotte church show on thu night, have to say i have had it up to here with her,
all she does is jokes about ivf, not very easy to hear coming from some little girl who get pregnant when she drops her knickers. dont get me worng i dont dislike her but do get upset when someone makes jokes about ivf on tv when they really dont know a thing about it. not nice charlotte do your homework love and you will see just how hard, heartbracking and difficult (could go on forever) this treatment can be. 
come on girls have a moan with me. love talie xx  xx


----------



## PiePig

Yep I saw last nights show too and was not happy.  There are so many things she can joke about, why choose something that she obviously does not understand, and something that is extremely difficult for the people going through it.

not that i would wish infertility on anyone, but sometimes you just think it'd be nice just for them to feel what we feel for a day and then see how funny she finds it!


----------



## talie

hiya piepig, love your name, im glad it wasnt just me, you are so right we would not wish it on anybody but when someone is standing there pregnant for the second time making a joke about ivf just dont think this very good, (go on charlotte try it for yourself its really funny).
i can take a joke an all that but this makes me very mad, also not a first for charlotte i must add, she make a joke about it a few weeks ago too. 
maybe i will stop watching it now, hee hee
love talie xx  xx


----------



## weeza82

Gosh what did she say? 

I have to say, I never watched her show although I did like her, I thought she sucked at presenting a TV show!


----------



## *laura*

She said something like _'why spend thousands on IVF treatment when you can go to Ibiza for 2 weeks and get a bun in the oven?'_

I think that was what she said, was a bit shocked myself when I heard it, it seemed her guests were a bit shocked too!


----------



## caz24

hiya girls,

i saw this too I'd actually been thinking about my fertility treatments for a while yesterday, - about whats next, and my gyno apportionment is on Monday, (not something to look forward to) and thought grate I'll watch Charlotte church show nearly always makes me smile, sat down with a cuppa and then it came on i was quite shocked

she was on about cheap tacky holidays, (somewhere like izba) then she's like 'oh the local breakfast is usaully the morning after pill' (not too bad yet) then she's like oh 'what's the point in spending thousands of pounds on ivf when all they need to do is go on a cheap holiday and bun in the oven no problem' (something like that)    

it really upset me.

i used to like her as well,   - thankfully not everyone is so stupid
take care girls xx


----------



## Ali Louise

That just goes to show how completely immature she really is!! 

It sounds like she's made a right fool of herself, Im a little dissappointed as I quite like her but she still got alot of growing up to do!


----------



## Lully77

I saw it too and just thought 'how sad that she thinks that's funny'.  Might give her a miss in future just in case she comes out with anything else insensitive   

Lully x


----------



## caz24

i wanted to complain to! but didn't know how to word the letter     so haven't done it yet.

don't think i can watch her show either incase she does opens her big mouth about something simlar again - i can't take it  

cazxx


----------



## weeza82

What a stupid silly little girl. I feel like complaining even though I didn't see it!


----------



## caz24

lol !    you made me laugh xx 
caz


----------



## Topkat08

OMG how   insensitive?! 
                  

Ive got 2 say i did like her at one stage, she didnt hold back on what she was thinking but on the other hand... 
when u make a comment about something u clearly dont know anything about, its best 2 keep it said behind closed doors where u know nobody is going 2 be offended OR even better.... dont say anything at all!
Although im not going through ivf myself i know what its like having problems conceiving. She must feel good knowing that 4 months after giving birth 2 her first daughter, she falls pregnant again... if only it was that easy for the rest of us. 

RUN ALONG CHARLOTTE & DO UR HOMEWORK.... MAYBE IF U NEEDED IT YOURSELF U WOULDNT BE TAKING THE P***!   

Nikki x

P.S might follow in KatieD's footsteps n complain 2 C4...... Hoping she wont return 2 our screen again after this series.....EVER!!!


----------



## Ali Louise

Follow the link below if you want to make an online complaint to channel 4

http://help.channel4.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE?New,Kb=C4_Author,Company={2EA1BB9C-510E-44A5-A481-01EB1DDA1669},T=CONTACT_VE,VARSET_TITLE=TV

/links


----------



## caz24

thanks i just made a complaint! - bet i won't get a reply  
Caz x


----------



## Ali Louise

Yeah will let you know if I hear anything! Hopefully she get a kick up the


----------



## janinec

i just made complaint too, using that link - thanks Ali ! 
Used to think she was watchable, definately showed her immaturity last night - very sad


----------



## *laura*

Thanks for the link!  I just made my complaint too


----------



## Nicksy

I have complained too   Stupid little girl - I also put that I think she is a rubbish presenter!!


----------



## talie

hiya girls,
i started this chat late lastnight when i thought ahh i will take a little look at the charlotte church show it makes me giggle, well didnt see the show as i was so mad with the joke, but didnt think i would go to sainsbury this morning and come back to us all complaining, thanks for the link ali louise.
though it may just be me being sensitive having had my ivf that ended in mc   .but i dont think i was me being sensitive now, let really go for it girls, get on that link, let have her for this one   
love talie xx  xx


----------



## cherriepie

Hey Ladies

I saw it too and put in a complaint to Channel 4 just after the show finished!  Took me a while to believe that she had actually said it - how ignorant and insensitive does one person need to be

I had been working on a group that I started to raise awareness and had been talking to some of the ladies there and of course this made me think about my own situaion so I did make me wonder if I was being overly sensitive so I am glad it's not just me!

I just get so frustrated   with "infertility" being such a taboo word and the lack of understanding or, at times, unwillingness to understand that people who aren't effected show.  I directed Charlotte in the direction of some of the boards and sites I use and to the tears and hope site to watch the video - I think that video sums up a lot of peoples journeys and puts across the feelings that surround it fantastically - well, for me anyway!

Charlotte is extremely blessed and having children has come easy to her but I do think that even if someone doesn't know about infertility and the emotional, physical and psychological issues surrounding it that their basic human compassion or emotional maturity would tell them that it is not an issue to be made fun of!

Here's hoping she will apologise to us all!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## talie

good for you cherriepie, lets see what come from that, please keep us infomed, 
we dont have to put up with this, come on girls keep complaining with the link, i just got an email back, they are looking into it, get back to me within 10days, then i sent them the link to us.
there you go charlotte dont start on us      
all the best girls love talie xx  xx


----------



## cherriepie

Hey Talie

If we do this together then maybe we will raise awareness of infertility and things like this won't happen!  I had an email from them as well saying they would get back within 10 days however if the complaint had to be passed to another department then the would get back asap.  Think they can expect another email from me after 11 days if I havn't heard anything....lol.  Will keep you all posted with any reply.

Like I said I have started a group to raise awareness and promote understanding of infertility amongst the general public - at the very least it gives me something to focus on.

Luv to all the girls!

Cherriepie

xxxxxxxx


----------



## butterflykisses

i watched it for the first 5mins because big bro had just finished and thought i would have a look at her show wish i hadn't had botherd now.heartless and insensitive c**,standing there preg aswell she doesn't know how we are all feeling and what we all have to go through.

        

                            marie76


----------



## talie

hi cherriepie, 
let me know how i can help, think you are doing a really fab thing, let get it out there and let everybody know this is hard and not something to giggle at and talk about behind closed door, this is happening to so many people, lets get it out there and get the 3 nhs treatments back and stop it being a postcode lottery. 
go girl love talie xx   xx

hi marie76, i know silly little girl, get on the link and complain honey xx


----------



## butterflykisses

totally agree 

                          marie 76x


----------



## cherriepie

Hey Marie

Think you feel the way we all do and it's good to know we aren't on our own!

xxxx


----------



## Burnie aka Hobbit

I complained too, so insensitive      

Just hope channel 4 do something about it


----------



## brownowl23

Im gonna complain and im going to send the link to the youtube video of the Kelly Coffey song  I would die for that.

I hope at least that someone might watch it even if Charlotte doesnt so that they can see the pain that we go through.


----------



## Topkat08

Just made my complaint...   

Lets hope C4 take all our complaints seriously, not that we'd want an apology knowing that she's only saying it because she's been told 2!!!  

She's gonna wish she kept her mouth shut   Silly girl

Nikki x x


----------



## cherriepie

Completely appreciate that Charlotte was probably following a script that was written for her however, she does have the ability to turn around and say "wait a minute, I am not saying that, I don't agree" so I think it would be nice to receive an apology.  At least that way we would know that our complaints have not been taken lightly and that either Charlotte or the script writer (whoever wrote it) has had the opportunity to reflect and perhaps inform themselves a little better regarding infertility.

It would let us know that we have been heard!

xxxxxxxx


----------



## Stars*

i really cant believe she has said that, surely she has to think that its wrong!! I dont watch her show cos its c r a p and i cant stand her, but reading this really makes me want to put in a complaint!!

Its fine for her cos she has make up sex and falls pregs, is it really bad to wish that next time for her its not so easy and she finds out fro herself what its like to go through any tx.

People like that are pathetic, really hope they piull the plug on her c rappy little show, one in wihich she cannot present at all, and her signing on it is even worse!! 

Lisa xxx


----------



## Seags

Hi girls

I've complained too!!  I watched the show last night (until that point anyway!) and was horrified by her comment.      How unbelievably thoughtless and insensitive.  Regardless of the fact that she wouldn't have been responsible for the script itself, she's the one whose mouth the words actually came out of - no-one forced her to say it.  

I've asked Channel 4 for a response, but I suspect that even if I get one it will be a standard reply that gets sent to anyone who complains.    

Hopefully if enough of us complain, though, the show will have to make an apology and at least they might stop and think before making such flippant remarks about sensitive topics in the future. 

Rach xxx


----------



## ~Sapphire~

I can't believe this    Don't we have to put up with enough insensitive comments in everyday life without having it shoved in our face on TV by someone who has found having a family so easy.  Thanks, Charlotte your little comment has directed me to where I have been going wrong!  I am sure if I go to Ibiza then suddenly I won't be infertile anymore!!  I will be complaining.


----------



## janinec

i have complained to channel 4 and gone on the charlotte church official  web site and contacted them direct to complain ! its so horrible to be laughed at.


----------



## talie

hi girls,
come on charlotte were really for you   dont mess with us, most of us have been to hell and back with treatment, we are strong, and we dont want silly little girls like you making up jokes about us,
not setting a very good example for your own daughter now are you?
come on girl get on the link and complain we dont have to put up with this crap.
love talie xx   xx


----------



## professor waffle

I didn't see it but I'm fed up of people making ridiculous statements about fertility treatment of any kind whilst knowing nothing about what it involve. Loose Women drives me mad with their blase discussions about IVF etc.

I've complained too


----------



## beegey

Thanks for bringing this to attention. I also didnt see the show, but have duly complained. I am absolutely incensed . I just cannot believe that channel 4 would air such an offensive, nasty 'joke' on a prerecorded 'show'. Stupid little bint


----------



## talie

good for you professor waffle, beegey and all you lovely ladies, yes we dont need to put up with this, lets make a stand, if they dont know and understand want ivf involves we dont want to hear what you have to say about it thanks  
why dont people do there homework, talk to us, we will tell you.
love talie xx


----------



## ~ Chux ~

I didn't see it but she made a joke about IVF the week before too which was just totally NOT funny and so insensitive. I get the impression she has a script writer but she really does need to sack him/her as what she is coming out with just doesn't suit her.

Chux xx


----------



## Caz

~ Chux ~ said:


> I get the impression she has a script writer but she really does need to sack him/her as what she is coming out with just doesn't suit her.




That's what I was thinking too.

I didn't see it either but what a silly thing to say - especially give her lucky situation. Shame really because I quite liked her show. Its a very silly and ignorant thing to come out with but doesn't surprise me - there's no sacred ground when it comes to making fun of things for some. 
When people who are supposedly fertility experts are in the media coming out with a load of faff about us leaving it too late and being impatient and then others telling us to have more sex... hardly surprising the "ignorant" can be so flippant if the educated are giving that impression. 

C~x


----------



## LuuLuu

Didn't see it but what an immature chav!!

Not a clue!!  She thinks if you click your fingers you get what you want immediately - she's had life soooooo easy!!

  

Will not watch that show!!


----------



## Roo67

I still had Ch 4 on after BB and heard her comment and couldn't believe what she actually said

Just filed a complaint so only time will tell if we get a reply / apology.


----------



## talie

we are really going for it girls, we want some action, nice one caz what a fab coment, and here here.
if we all complained thats 50 they must do something about that, keep us posted.
love talie xx   xx


----------



## November

I have made a complaint too - in all fairness she probably hasn't thought at all about what she said and obviously for her the implications are meaningless.  She does it all for shock value.  I have complained in the hope that she realises that she needs to think about what she said. Horrible to say but proir to my IVF issues her comment may have not registered - or rather it would have probably made me wince, but would have been forgotten in the next minute. That makes me sound so horrible doesn't it...sorry.

Anyway do feel that she needs to watch her mouth  

xx


----------



## Junnie

I complained and complained to her Manager.. and to her offical website!


----------



## talie

morning ladies,
this comment is still biting me, so just complained to ofcom, we mean business charlotte church     
heres what we think of you crap little song, who in the news, who in the news, you are charlotte for opening your big fat mouth about something you have no idea  
lets keep going girls, sorry to sound like william wallace - they will never take our freedom !!!!!!! hee hee
love talie xx  xx


----------



## AmandaB1971

Sorry ladies, only just seen this.

I've only watched her show twice but I don't like the fact that she f's and jeffs all the way through it either! I swear on occasion but not on national telly and not just as part of my everyday conversation! 

I didn't hear this comment but it doesn't surprise me at all, people do seem to get pleasure out of other people's misery! 

I think Ofcom is the right way to go here, Channel 4 can fob you off, but Ofcom will have to act!

Axxxx


----------



## PiePig

hiw do you complain to ofcom?


----------



## talie

hi again piepig, just go on the ofcom website and it tell you what to do, if I can do it that easy anybody can honey. 
Love talie xx  xx


----------



## cherriepie

Hey All

Good to see that everyone is getting together on this one.  I have complained to Channel 4 but think I will go to Ofcom too.  Like Talie says, Channel 4 can fob us off but Ofcom has to act!!!  Plus I have been so annoyed by it it'sall I have nippeed my family and friends' heads about since Thursday night so really think I need to vent....lol.

Well done ladies!!

xxxxx


----------



## talie

hi cherriepie and all you lovely girls,
yes we are as one on this, we must get together and be herd. if like me you want to take this to the boss complain to ofcom-
www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/progs/specific/?itemid=286480 this should take you there.
come on girls all we want is a sorry.
love talie xx   xx

/links


----------



## Marielou

I've complained too.  I've always been a Charlotte Church fan, but won't be watching again after this - I'm guessing it was an in-informed and unaware researcher that wrote the script, but she didn't actually have to read it, did she?


----------



## Topkat08

Well with all of us making complaints hopefully this Will be taken seriously.... i hope she wont be returning 2 our screens. 
Ive complained on Channel 4's website & now i'm going 2 complain to Ofcom as well. 
Lets get ourselves heard ladies

Just a quick question... How many would like her 2 apologize knowing that shes only saying it because shes been told 2?

Take Care All
Nikki x x


----------



## PiePig

I would still like an apology even though it may be down to the script writer - after all she chose to say it, its not like she doesn't have a brain (or so i thought) and can make decisions as to what might be funny and what is not!


----------



## cherriepie

Hey Topkat

I would like her to apologise regardless of whether she is told to or not.  Sometimes being forced to apologise makes you reflect and question what you have done.  At least, when I think of my Mum making me apologise when I was young, that's what it makes me think of.

Whether she apologises of her own accord or is told to do it surely it will make her think about what she said even if she didn't write the script etc.  

And, if she were to do it on air then her viewers would also know that it's not ok to poke fun at us!!!

What about you?  Would you like an apology?

Take care!

Luv Cherriepie

xxxxxx


----------



## Topkat08

I think she should be made to apologize on air & have the script writer come down to apologize as well.
With the show being pre-recorded i don't think that bit should of been cut out. But as someone has already said I'm sure there were some of the producers & people back stage that did find it funny. (How shallow some are)

If it was regarding any other matter like racism then it would be out & out trouble, be put in papers & properly on the news because they wouldn't want to offend any race!  

I don't see why insensitive comments about IVF (infertility) should be any different as many woman finding it hard to conceive are sensitive to this kind of thing (i know i am)
You wouldn't take the p*** out of someone who cant read or write etc so why should we be mad to feel like c**p just for some brats amusement

Take Care 
Nikki x x


----------



## Junnie

WEll i told Ofcom and Channel 4 (gave them this link to this thread) that if an apology is NOT made.. I will be sending this to the newspapers and anyone who will listen!!!


----------



## PiePig

Done my complaint as well


----------



## NuttyJo

I purposely didnt watch it as she made some stupid comment the week before about ivf too and now hearing what she said this week made me even madder! i have complained to offcom too about it as chanel 4 just fob you off with excuses.

xxx


----------



## talie

hiya she said a few weeks ago something like - talking about her new show- im pregnant again this show is just like ivf, not very good but i didnt feel like i would like hang her for that one, but this one i do, also just in case she open that potty mouth again next week, hopefull this will shut that mouth up.
i cant believe the producers of the show thought that was ok to air, mmm lucky bunch working on 
the charlotte church show seam none of them have needed fertility treatments, funny that,
yes i would like an apology on air, thats all we ask for and think thats the lest we could get.
love talie xx   xx


----------



## caz24

just made another complain this time to ofcom    

caz x


----------



## noodlez

I didn't see the show but I have just registered my complaint with Channel 4. Just in the middle of my complaint to Ofcom....... what time was the show on last night?


----------



## talie

hi noodlez honey it was 10.00 oohh not last night thus night hon
love talie xx  xx


----------



## noodlez

Sorry hun, do you mean 10pm?


----------



## noodlez

Don't really take much notice of her so deffo wouldn't watch her show


----------



## talie

yep 10pm on thurs 7 th
love talie xx   xx


----------



## talie

well i know im sad i did watch it, but im with you there now not watching it anymore, well maybe for our apology next week, hopefully.
love talie xx   xx


----------



## noodlez

Thanks for that hun.xx


----------



## talie

no probs babes, 
let just hope something come out of us puting the time in to stop these thing happening,
it so strange that there so much about fertility around at the mo, with so called experts putting there foot in it and diffent things coming out in the news and ofcause miss big mouth church all a bit  
whats next   
love talie xx  xx


----------



## Wraakgodin

Just come across this thread, I am totally incensed at her insensitivity.  It is making my blood boil.  Stupid ignorant  , but I suppose with the life she has lead so far she has absolutely no idea what goes on in the real world.

I hope you get some satisfaction (or at least an answer!) from all your complaints.

Hugs

Sue


----------



## surferchick

I used to like her but there's no way I would watch her show now. What an insensitive comment to make. I'm sure she co-writes the scripts... 

Would anyone mind posting on here (or PM'ing me) with a complaints letter? I want to complain too to C4 and Ofcom but I'm really bad with words  

Surferchick xxx


----------



## ~ Chux ~

surferchick said:


> I'm sure she co-writes the scripts...


Do you think? I'm not convinced as the stuff she comes out with just doesn't suit her - it's more Jonathon Ross's style than hers which is what made me think it's all a script writer.

I think it's just a case of ignorance on her part - she's never had to give a thought to IVF or even find out what it entails so no doubt a lot of her opinions are formed on what she's read in the media. Certainly doesn't make it right, just makes her the same as so many others.

Chux xx


----------



## Topkat08

Hiya Ladies 

How are we all?! Just wondering if anyone has heard anything from either Channel 4 or Ofcom?! 

I know i havent  

Take care 
Nikki x


----------



## caz24

hiya girls
haven't heard a thing yet, i can't belive they had the nerve to show the show again last night though       they didn't even edit the bit where she said it    (not that i watched her crappy little show just the intro- to she if it was edited out) i even got my dp to watch where she said it! and he agreed it was totally out of order    take care girls xx
caz x


----------



## Junnie

IM going to call Channel 4 today.. see if they got ALL our complaints


----------



## Junnie

Okjust got off the phone

Channel 4 has acknowledged there is complaints (morethen y ou think!!) and they said it takes 10 days to get a response.. as they are working through backlog with BB being on!


----------



## caz24

brilliant! - wonder how many complaints they got in total 

and wonder what they will do ? maybe an apology would be a good start    then they could   her mouth up!

caz x


----------



## ebonie

I complained as wel and i had a email back saying that they would reply to me in ten days  so just need to sit and wait 

This is the reply i had from channel 4 
Subject: Your Channel 4 enquiry [Ref 611677] Dear , Thank you for your enquiry. A member of our Viewer Enquiries team will review your e-mail and will reply to you within the next 10 days. If we need to forward your correspondence through to another Channel 4 department for an answer, we cannot guarantee a response time, but will get back to youas soon as we can.


----------



## Stars*

So glad so many people have complained!!!

I just hope that she gets her show taken off air!! Its a c r a p show anyway!!!

She has made too many awful sh**ty jokes about IF recently

Lisa xxx


----------



## Topkat08

good on ya Junnie, hope u gave them a peace of ur mind on the phone as well.  

i agree with ya Caz, my DP watched it because i told him about all our complaints. At first he thought it was a ''tongue in cheek'' remark when she mentioned something about the MAP but he agreed that the ivf ''joke'' was insensitive so got him 2 complain as well!!!  
The more the merrier lol  

Lol Lisa25 she's just mad. she goes from the voice of an angel to thinking she can make it into the pop world failed at the so now she fancies herself as a presenter/''comedian''  

Take care ladies
Nikki x 

P.S looking forward to our replies & to see if she does apologise on Thurs


----------



## Junnie

yeah the poor irish girl that answered the phone. I said BB is the LEAST of their worries lol


----------



## cherriepie

Go Junnie!!!  

Can't believe they used BB as an excuse though.  

Topkat/Caz - My DH thought I was over reacting until he saw the piece in question last night.  He is quite a reasonable sort of guy but thought showing it twice was majorly stepping over the line since he knew how many of us from FF have complained.

Ebonie - fab news on the complaint!

Lisa25 - with you on everyone complaining.  I missed the other "jokes" she made so still don't know what she said but if last Thursday was anything to go by am I am glad I didn't hear it.

Who else complained to Ofcom as well?

Take care!  

Cherriepie.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## beegey

Me me me! I complained to Ofcom, mob mentality etc  

Seriously though, really cross still. Hope we get replies soon x


----------



## **Ali**

OMG, I saw the show and was deeply offended. Like the rest of you I have complained to both Ofcom and C4. Lets hope they listened to us

Ali xxx


----------



## ~Sapphire~

Was going to watch last night just to see if they kept it in but feel asleep before it started (probably best as I didn't see it first time and was upset just hearing about it) - makes it even worse to show it again if they are aware that there has been a number of complaints.


----------



## surferchick

I've put in my complaint to Ofcom and Channel 4. Can't believe they showed the repeat with it in  

Surferchick xxx

Ps. Thanx for the PM Talie


----------



## talie

hi girl,
cant beleive they put it on again last night, not very good ch 4   
junnie- nice one honey for giving them a call, bet we are not the olny ones complaining then.
i watch it again on 4od and got my dh to watch it too, he also thought it was very bad tasted.
it just made ivf seam like its nothing, and very easy to do, so so worng. 
not happy at all, 
all the best girls love talie xx   xx

surferchick - no probs honey hope it helped,


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

cherrie pie. - The 1st comment she made was on her 1st show when she was flaunting her pg belly around and said "oh this show is just like ivf!"  I couldn't believe it and was goiing to make a complaint then.  I didn't watch anymore of her shows but somehow saw the one on thurs when she said about going to malia for a [email protected]  I was shouting at the telly like a loon.  my friend saw it and thought of me (not thinking of me in malia.........although.........!!)     Anyway i went straight on to FF and starting ranting     then DH came in and wondered what the hell i was on about!  I switched it off as i couldn't bare seeing the freak anymore!     Charloitte not DH!!!    

Anyway i've now complained and will wait for an apology although i'm not holding my breathe!! 

Becks xx


----------



## cherriepie

Becks - so angry again although laughing too as found your post quite funny despite the topic - maybe we could put you on telly to rip the p out of her!!!      She clearly thinks it's ok to say things like that so glad we all decided to tell her otherwise!!!

DH said that if we don't get apology we should take it to papers  Someone said earlier that they put link to this thread in with their complaint and said they would send it to papers if no apology was forthcoming (sorry can't remember who it was as thread has been so busy and if I go back I will loss all this post....lol).

As soon as I get a response I will post it on here - keep checking my mail box..... 

xxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Junnie

Yup that was loud mouth me!! lol


----------



## cherriepie

Hey Junnie - thought it was   but meds are putting my memory on hold....lmao.    

xxx


----------



## Jane D

Dont worry revenge will be exacted when her boy friend leaves her, despite her trying to trap him with two babies in quick succession.  Still hasn't married you has he charlotte??  I never watch the show as she is pants and immature.


----------



## Stars*

So true, has he not already kissed another girl!

Lisa xxxxxx


----------



## cherriepie

OMG Jane - really didn't think I would laugh today but your comment was hilarious - just what I needed.....   

xxxxxxxx


----------



## talie

nice one JaneD fab comment and so true lol      
love talie xx   xx


----------



## Jane D

Glad to have made a few folks laugh. Seriously though, had another thought, let us fast forward now 17 years, when Charl is with her 5th partner and she is going for baby number 7 and suddenly finds out she needs a little help.  Doubt she would find assisted conception funny then.  No doubt though by 2025, todays techniques will be replaced by marvelous 100% successful techniques.

Cheers  all

Jane


----------



## Caz

Jane D said:


> Dont worry revenge will be exacted when her boy friend leaves her, despite her trying to trap him with two babies in quick succession. Still hasn't married you has he charlotte??


No I'm sorry I don't really find that funny. As much as I understand the place you are coming from and the hurt you feel over her comments, I just think this is almost stooping to the same level and I can see very little good to be had from it.

I'm all for complaining about it, and I hope that she will have the balls to say sorry, and I hope even more that she will realise exactly why she's doing so and it's not an empty gesture but it does us any favours by emulating the very behaviour we have condemmed her for. I just think if we want to be taken seriously then we need to keep a clear and professional head on our shoulders.

Other than that I'd be inclined to say that let's not feed the ego and let her and her flippancy and ignorance take up any more of our time and energy.

C~x


----------



## Ali Louise

I didnt like to say anything but I agree with you Caz Im dissappointed with her remarks and ignorance but I wouldnt want to wish someones boyfriend leaves them.


----------



## Guest

Didn't watch the show and glad I didn't. Often I wonder why people think it's okay to make a joke about infertility, but you'd never dream of attacking people with diabetes or cancer or any other medical issue, that wouldn't be PC!!!. But about infertility it's always either jokes or blaming us that we did something wrong / left it too late / want designer babies etc. etc. How annoying.

Well done all of you who compalined! Hope this makes the producers think (not sure she's up to it though ...)


----------



## loobylou713

To be honest i did not find it offensive even though i have been having treatment for 18 years. I think a lot of bad press as belittled IVF like Angelina Jolie. I can't be bothered with little comments i know what is right and wrong with IVF and i don't care what others think of it. People makes jokes about all sorts of things some find them funny others don't. In the 70's people used to make tv series about blacks and whites living next door to each other. (love thy neighbour) people used to laugh at that now we are not allowed to. I think we can get too bitter over this infertility lark and i am for one not going to let it make me a bitter person wishing all sorts of things on people just because they don't have the same views as myself.

Sorry to all the girls who found it offensive i suppose i just let things go over my head and not get worked up over it.


Linda
xxxx


----------



## cherriepie

Hey Linda

I completely respect your point of view but do think that it's the little things like that which allow infertility to remain such a taboo within society and lead on to greater discriminations.  

In the past, things such as cancer, HIV and AIDS were misunderstood and there was great prejudice shown to a vast numbers of people.  I completely acknowedge that infertility is not directly life threatening like cancer, HIV or AIDS however infertility has a profound impact on peoples lives and I really do think that getting an apology for a comment such as this (in particular a public one) may just spur people to think a little longer and harder or, hopefully, in a few cases, spur them on to actually find out more about it.

I for one know that infertility has not only effected me physically and mentally but also socially and within the workplace.  I really admire that you are able to let go of the little things and I really hope that I develop the ability to do so but until then I cannot bring myself to sit back and not try to get others to understand infertility.  For me (and a lot of others, more than likely including you however I appreciate it is diferent for everyone) infertility has been a life crisis.  I have lost friends and had my job (which I loved) taken away from me and in all honesty I do believe that comments such as these allow people to continue thinking that it's ok to igrnore infertility or form opinions about things such as "NHS not funding treatments" etc without the appropriate knowledge or basic understanding of how it effects people like us.

As I said, hopefully one day I will be able to let these things slide and not be upset by them but until then..................

Luv 'n'  

Cherriepie

xxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## loobylou713

I think people can cope with situtations different. I have become hardened to it all now. Infertility is a part of who i am and as made me a stronger person. When i first started my treatment years ago seeing pregnant women would upset me i myself even lost a good friend because she got pregnant and i could not bring myself to be happy for her or to go mushy over her baby. I can now say no matter what people say or do does not bother me i am so used to IVF treatment not working and having multiple MC's after 18 years of treatment you sort of build up a barrier. I have always told people what i am doing i have always had to pay for my treatment the only thing i got free was clomid and iui because by time i started trying for a baby properly if you can call it that i had already had 2 mc's in the early 90's. So when it came to the late 90's i was classed as too old. I work in a shop part time whilst i am at Uni and people say to me all the time don't you want children and i always tell them the truth i say of course i do but 18 years of fertility treatment as got me nowhere. They all say can't you get it free yeah right i say i go abroad for my treatment and save myself 1,000's pounds in doing so. 

I suppose what i am saying is infertility is bad enough without worrying about what other people think of me. I know what is real and what is not and comments from no matter who is not going to change the fact that i have to go through with this. I suppose noone as ever said anything out of order to me if they did i would put them straight that IVF is not an easy option for the majority of people.

We need to be strong to get through infertility not saying it's not hard because i know it is but don't let peoples comments get to you, you have enough to think about without getting stressed out.

I hope one day people do realise it is not an easy option but i doubt it but even if they don't it won't change anything either we have the treatment and get on with it or we don't as we don't have any other option do we?

Ivf is stressful for most people because they get all their hopes up i don't get my hopes up anymore i just assume that it is not going to work and if it does i will be the most grateful person around. I have got to the stage many years ago when i didn't work it is now oh well next try.

I hope my post doesn't upset anyone i don't mean it to all i want to say is don't get stressed over what other people say or think it's just not worth it.


Linda
xxxx


----------



## pobby

To all lovely ladies
Its such a shame that someone like Miss Church should make ridiculous comments..just something said at the drop of a hat. she probably has no idea howmuch these things can hurt..like someone said, she wouldnt take the p*** out of someone in a wheelchair..know it is different but you know what i mean. The problem is when someone like her says those things those who are less intelligent will tend to believe her and find it funny.
Linda is right though, we must try not to let things like this upset us..nothing they can say or do will make any difference to us ultimately and getting wound up does none of us any good (dont get me wrong I get wound up and upset just like the rest of you but know that it wont get me anywhere)
all I can say is THANK GOD (or thank Tony!!   ) for good old FF cos we all know the truth and how it is and we can have a good old rant and feel better!
Bo  L Oc  KS!  to Miss Church.......i think she is a cr** presenter anyway!  
lots of love Pobby xxxx


----------



## babycrazy

hI
Charlotte does not write the jokes you can tell she is reading them off an autoque as she tells them quite badly.
XX
BC


----------



## talie

hi girls,
i have to say i do feel the same as our cherriepie and katieD, i do completely understand what your saying loobylou and i am someone that can let go of the little things myself, but i do feel when it come to infertility it is so misunderstood in the media and thats why things like this happen (c church joke),
i know im new to this, been trying 4 years but only 1 ivf which ended in mc, and im really getting over the mc and back to my normal self but last week with the comment it just bought it all back to me, why should i put up with that? thats not fair, i know things like this will happen and like you loobylou i know i will become harden to it, but infertility is growing and i just think we need to educate people on it now.
take care girls love talie xx  xx

cherriepie i have not forgot about your web page honey, which is fab by the way   xx


----------



## Topkat08

Hiya Ladies... How r we today?!

Just wondering who's gonna be watching the Church show 2nite?!  

Lets see if C4 has acknowledged our complaints & do the decent thing  


Take Care 
Nikki x


----------



## caz24

hello,

i was wondering weather to watch the first bit just to see if she says sorry or something ?!   hasn't anyone got a reply yet?! it's been a week now.

caz x


----------



## Topkat08

Im gonna watch it anyway & if i DON'T hear her apologise then i'll be complaining for the 3rd time   
Nope still no reply from C4  

Take Care 
Nikki x


----------



## caz24

hiya,
i'm gonna watch it as well - (the first bit anyway) so let's hope she makes an aplogy, what she said was really insulting and if she doesnt say sorry i'll be complaining again too   (also for the 3rd time lol)

take care girls xx 
caz x


----------



## KellyG

I live around the corner from Miss Church, how about paying for my tx and i will go break her windows   No on a serious note, i didnt watch her show as i dont like it, but i get the jist of it. Im glad that you ladies have complained as we all know what we are all going through and by complaining you have stuck up for us and held all our heads up high!! This is more support than Charlotte will ever have!

Well done xx


----------



## Ali Louise

I would have thort the shows were pre-recorded so unsure how she'd be able apologise personally?? Maybe they could offer a written statement of apology at the beginning of the show or somat?? Too be honest Id be very suprised if they did! ...I mean they dont really care what we think as long as she's got the ratings!...Im not holding out much hope and wont be wasting my time watching it x


----------



## cherriepie

Afternoon ladies

How are we all today?  I havn't had reply from Channel 4 and I think I will tune in to start of her show this evening.

About the earlier discussion, I'd just like to say I wouldn't wish anything bad on anyone despite the hurtful comments.  I am a big believer in karma and don't like to mess with it.  I would never wish anything bad on anyone in case it bites me in the backside and as I believe in karma I just figure that if someone upsets me they will get theirs.

On the other hand I have always been a "if I'm going to moan about it then I am going to try and do something about it" kind of person and I really can't put up with the ignorance etc etc etc shown by the media and poeple who just can't be bothered to try and understand.

Talie - thank you for the comment about my page.  Have been busy this week researching and looking for a firm to help me argue a case too so maybe, just maybe, what I would like to do will become a reality although I am sure it will cause a bit of debate....lol.  My sister thinks I should get in touch with Phil and Fern and go on This Morning which made me laugh.... .  Told her I couldn't do it on my own - I am only one person afterall.

Much love,  ,   and babydust to all.

Cherriepie

xxxxxxxxxx

p.s.  Hope I didn't upset anyone with any of my comments as that wasn't the intention.  Sometimes I am not that great with words.


----------



## talie

hiya girl,
so a week on and i dont think any of us have anythink back yet, let see what happens tonight  
im a big fan of ch 4 too, so i hope they do the right thing. 
cherriepie honey im here if you need help, i know it takes more then just a few of us, but im with your sister (phil n fern) let get the message out there and educate the media on infertility and treatment and then maybe we dont have to get upset when this things like this happen, when uneducate people open there big mouth. 
kellyG - a few window wont hurt   
love talie xx   xx


----------



## KellyG

i second that!!


----------



## Jane D

lets hope there are no more slip ups now on the show.    i agree what comes around.  Hope there is tv apology and end of matter.  Tensions do run high on these matters.  Remember the zita west furore? 

I am a keen media watcher.  i keep scanning the mags every week  and  more fertility stories coming to light if you read the more grown up type of mags.  Red magazine this month discusses eating for fertility and discusses the fertility journey of a lady mp who has now got an adopted son.  Nice stuff in the media too.  I will put posts on when I see good ones.

Take care now

Jane


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

if she reads the auto que and doesn't write her jokes, surely to god she must read what she has to say before the show and must have a say if she doesn't agree with something, so she must have agreed to say those things. and it wasn't just the once she joked about it either.  

becks xx


----------



## Topkat08

OMG CAN U BELIEVE THIS BINT?!    

Watched her show to see if she says sorry... surprise!!! she hasn't instead she makes a ''joke'' bout single mums in Liverpool can u believe it?!

I thought she would of learnt her lesson about making ''jokes''

Anyway ladies... im off 2 write my complaint 2 Channel 4......again!!!  

Take Care 
Nikki x x


----------



## Lully77

I was on FF and realised that the tv was still on after BB and I could hear her singing that stupid song - I suddenly remembered what a silly little girl she is and swiftly turned over!   

Can't believe she can't find any different material or a different subject matter to 'joke' about!

Lully x


----------



## Topkat08

well i put up with her ''singing''  just  to see if we would get an apology and to no surprise...we didnt so i have just send another complaint to C4 & about 2 do the same with Ofcom.


----------



## Topkat08

Me again... 

Forget 2 put the link 2 Ofcoms complaints up

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/progs/specific/?itemid=286480

Dont hold back now ladies 

Nikki x 

/links


----------



## PiePig

come on lets be honest - how many of us actually expected an apology?  I for one did not really expect it to happen.


----------



## janinec

i wasnt expecting an apology, they will be faffing around for a long time considering the complaints i am sure, and when this series is long over, they will decide not to bother i am sure ! 

anyway i watched this load of tripe tonight, and at the end i noticed that 3 people are credited as the shows "writers" - not one of them called charlotte church, but 3 males !! 

I realise i am falling into a cliche here but i couldnt help but think would a woman have been as ready to write jokes about IVF in such a blase fashion ?  .... 

.... but then charlotte although young is female and she must have thought it funny too to have performed those lines, she isnt merely some puppet fed material that she does not stop to consider surely


----------



## talie

hiya 
good for you katieD think im going to do the same, but think i will complain again to ofcom, im really disapionted in ch4 at the mo but they may surprise us with at email apology (cop out if they do)
dont think i will be watching big mouth next week   if it on, nice if they stop it, know its not going to happen but just be a mum charlotte, you seam to think you know so much about fertility as it is, yes go an get all your 4 children before you 30 like you said. 
sorry i sound so bitter, well think i am a little.
janinec - not a surprise that the shows writers are men, just feel for there poor wifes having to put up with there crap jokes alday (boring)   
love talie xx   xx


----------



## *Suze*

hi ladies

only just stumbled across this thread so just thought id add my 2 penneth's worth   

i was absolutely gobsmacked, shocked, stunned to hear charlotte church talking about ivf in such a way 2 weeks on the trot....she obviously thinks its something funny....NOT   and the fact that she thinks we will just go shagging on holiday 'just' to get pregnant the easy way, im sure our partners would be well chuffed by that idea......  how very dare she?!

do you think im too late to complain? maybe we should get FF to contact a 'celeb' mag to publish our disgust in what she said...what do you think? 

i think all you ladies that have called or written are fab  go girls!!  

love to all
Suze xx


----------



## talie

hiya girls
hi suze i dont think its to late for you to complain if you want to, we have complain to ch4 and ofcom
and some of the ladies have done it twice so go for it honey.
how very dare she indeed.
love talie xx   xx


----------



## Topkat08

Hi Suze,

It's not to late 2 complain hun. I've complained to C4 3 times (was told i'd get a reply within 10 & i'm still waiting... that was 2 weeks ago ) & ive complained to Ofcom (waiting to hear from them aswell) 

There's the links to Ofcom & C4 if u want to complain:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/progs/specific/?itemid=286480

http://help.channel4.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE?New,Kb=C4_Author,Company={2EA1BB9C-510E-44A5-A481-01EB1DDA1669},T=CONTACT_VE,VARSET_TITLE=CONTACTUSl

Take Care 
Nikki x 
/links


----------



## caz24

did anyone else get a reply yet ?! - i did here's the email i got sent! 

Thank you for contacting Channel 4 Viewer Enquiries regarding THE CHARLOTTE
CHURCH SHOW.

We are sorry you were offended by the comments made by Charlotte regarding
IVF Treatment. We understand that this is a sensitive issue for a lot of
people and it was certainly not Charlotte's intention to hurt or offend.
Channel 4 takes its responsibility to its audiences very seriously and does
everything to ensure that its programmes comply with the Office Of
Communications statutory rules on taste and decency.

An important part of Channel 4's remit, set out in the Broadcasting Act
1990, is to include programmes calculated to appeal to tastes and interests
not generally catered for by ITV, and to encourage innovation and experiment
in the content of programmes. Although this does not solicit the
transmission of programmes which will be viewed as offensive, it does mean
that occasional programmes may contain material which might not be to the
taste of some viewers - particularly if they are broadcast late in the
evening, well after the 9pm 'watershed'.

Please be assured your complaint has been logged. This is then distributed
throughout Channel 4 and will be seen by those responsible for the
programme.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact us. We appreciate all
feedback from our viewers; complimentary or otherwise.

Regards,

Lorna Dane
Channel 4 Viewer Enquiries

For information about Channel 4 have a look at our FAQ section at
www.channel4.com/help [/b]

i feel like we are being fobbed off 

anyways gotta hit the sack 
take care girls xx

/links


----------



## cherriepie

Am not amused!!!!

Not had reply as yet but if I receive that same email I definitely, definitely will not be amused.  It's a fob off and not even a clever one at that.  "It was after the watershed" doesn't cut it with me.  It doens't matter what time of night it is shown it was still very upsetting and hurtful.  Are they suggesting that at 27 years old I should switch off my TV at 8.59pm and be tucked up in bed before the watershed.  The watershed is there to protect children and don't think it gives them a licence to say whatever they like from 9pm onwards.  As for the bit about appealing to viewers tastes not catered for by ITV what a load of B.S!!!!  Does Channel 4 really think so little of their viewers' intelligence (and that would include mine thank you very much channel 4) to pass this type of thing off as entertainment or are they using this as an excuse to say what they like.  Surely they have some kind of responsibility for things that are aired and can't simply use some old Act that very few people will actually have heard of let alone read as an excuse.

Maybe Ofcom will come back with a better response but won't hold my breath!

Maybe we should start a petition or something similar that we can send to them to show how many people this offended.  I know that not everyone on the site will have seen this thread but I think that they would more than likely feel the same as everyone who has posted here already.

xxxxx


----------



## Caz

> An important part of Channel 4's remit, set out in the Broadcasting Act
> 1990, is to include programmes calculated to appeal to tastes and interests
> not generally catered for by ITV, and to encourage innovation and experiment
> in the content of programmes. Although this does not solicit the
> transmission of programmes which will be viewed as offensive, it does mean
> that occasional programmes may contain material which might not be to the
> taste of some viewers - particularly if they are broadcast late in the
> evening, well after the 9pm 'watershed'.


In other words "oooh, if it's controversial and we get a rise out of someone then we've succeeded".
Puhlease C4, that was C4 from the 80's when, for crying out loud, the world was a much narrower minded place.  These days it's not and all sorts of things are acceptable. Mocking the afflicted though...nah, that still isn't. Would C4 be so willing to take the mick out of paraplegics or people with cancer....actually, knowing C4, probably yes. Just really goes to show the mentality you're dealing with here.

Frankly, I never thought any sort of apology would be forthcoming and I can imagine them rubbing their hands together with glee that they've managed to stir up members of the public in such a way.
Yep, a competle cop out of a response but no more than I expected. 
I honestly don't think it's worth wasting any more time on this. Hey, vote with your remote and switch channels; it'll have a much greater impact.

C~x


----------



## roze

CC should climb back into the (vodka) bottle from whence she and her motormouth came.....then put the cap on tight and throw it in the sea.  Try a little visualisation and the problem may just  go away!


roze


----------



## Junnie

I called channel 4 after my reply... I told the poor woman

"So just because its watershed its ok to be taboo?"

"Well it is acceptable that adult material may be discussed"

"Is it ok to make fun of the handicap?What if she made a comment about heather mills having no legs and how she looks funny etc"

"well that wouldnt be ok.. thats making fun of the disabled"

"Guess what.. Im infertile.. its a disability i am UNABLE to conceive naturally.. "

"I dont feel that is a disability"

"Definition of Disabled: Impaired, as in physical functioning: Having kids.. is a physical function no?"

"Well yes but..."

"No buts If its not ok for CC to make fun of someone with no legs then its certainly not alright if she makes fun of a woman who cant have kids...or make light of it"

" I will lodge your complaint again"

"Thank you and I expect a reply with in 48hours from a supervisor otherwise I will be calling the national papers and telling them that Channel4 enjoys making fun of the disabled- Have a great day"

"you too Ma'am"


----------



## talie

hi girls 
what the hell, this is not on, what a load of bs to fob us off like that with the watershed (my ars).
like cherrypie said must make sure were in bed by 9 so we dont get offend again, omg
im not puting up with that cop out and like you junnie may call them too  
i know you right caz, but i dont feel i cant leave this to let it happen again an again will be turning off the crap show this week thought.
yes let hope ofcom come back with something better.
love talie xx   xx


----------



## NuttyJo

just to say, that is the EXACT same emailed reply i got when i complained about something else to channel 4 before - minus the part about it being about IVF. it seems its a standard response but with an extra paragraph added in   

well done Junnie, hopefully they will listen to us now


----------



## Topkat08

that is the biggest fob off if ever i have heard on!!! 
So because it was after watershed they can say what the want... i don't think so   like Cherrypie said watershed is a thing for kids!!! I am disgusted with C4 & i can guarantee nothing will be said to Church. 

Lets face it she doesn't care does she... shes one of them that sticks it in n comes out with a BFP so why would she care. I read in the papers not long after she announced her pregnancy that her other half had left her, although i don't find that funny it does make me wonder how she would feel if another presenter made a ''joke'' about that?!


----------



## cherriepie

Well done Junnie

Think I may give them a call myself - am going to ask for address to write to Chief Executive as well.  Sounds to me that she was a bit flustered when you started defining disability to her.  Silly woman!!!!

Going to the papers is a fab idea.

It's no more than was expected but on the other hand I just think people must have complained about similar things before, got to this stage and given up.  I just feel like if I give up now then I will be allowing it to carry on and therefore giving up my right to feel so strongly about this kind of treatment.  (I've always been the kind of person that thinks if I am going to moan about it then I have to do something about it).  TV channels make an example of peoples' bad behaviour by featuring them in the news and ripping them to shreds so why can't we use Channel 4 as an example to all other channels and media etc?

Think for me it's gone beyond what Charlotte has said due to the blatant disregard Channel 4 have shown by throwing a couple of excuses and added a word here or there to a standard reply.  I am guessing that 99% of complainers "go away" after reading that response as they think it's pointless to continue........now where's my phone

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

p.s. Hope Channel 4 have followed the link to this thread that was given to them so they can see that this particular "problem" is not going away easily.


----------



## Caz

cherriepie said:


> Going to the papers is a fab idea.


I really don't think they'll be all that interested because it's just not sensational enough. If you read any papers these day - even broadsheets that as supposedly so much more respectable - you'd be hard pushed to find them reporting on what is, essentially, not really news at all.  I wish it would work, I really do but, well, if you mount a sit in at the Chief Exec of C4's country pile then it might make evening news....not that I an recommending that you do. 

Personally, I think you could probably argue the point with Offcom (has anyone heard from them by the way?) from the definition of infertility being a disability. I think you would get a betetr chance of having your concerns taken seriously that way than through C4.

C~x


----------



## cherriepie

Hey Ladies

Have just received a reply from Channel 4 which was a little different (although not entirely satisfactory either) so thought I would post it.

"Dear Ms Blacklaw,

Thank you for contacting Channel 4 Viewer Enquiries regarding THE CHARLOTTE
CHURCH SHOW.

We were sorry to learn that you were offended by comments made by Charlotte
about IVF.

As a comedy programme it is always a possibility that participants will
react in a way, or express opinions, which a viewer may disagree with or
find upsetting and may be considered inappropriate by some. It is important
that within the context and structure of the programme that participants
have the right to express themselves without censure; however, Channel 4
remains impartial on all political issues

We do appreciate that some viewers will find certain comments or actions
unacceptable and we will always look at the context and the justification in
screening certain scenes or conversations in line with the Ofcom
regulations.

Nevertheless your comments are welcome and have been logged for the
attention of the programme makers.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact us. We appreciate all
feedback from our viewers; complimentary or otherwise.

Regards,

Veronica Way
Channel 4 Viewer Enquiries

For information about Channel 4 have a look at our FAQ section at
www.channel4.com/help"

I am about to send a response to them.  It seems that it was the "participants" of the show that caused offence according to this reply but I thought it was Charlotte/script writers.

xxxxxxxxx


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Cherripie - that reply is worse than the other one!!!  If they made fun of people with downs or cerebal palsy or pepple that have  had brain injuries, they wouldn't get away with that.

Peter and katie made fun of heather mills leg on their show, that cuased up roar, it wzs on the papers.  It was really uncomfortable watching, i don't like the woman but wouldn't make fun of that.

Becks


----------



## cherriepie

Have just sent my reply to Channel 4.  Who thinks I will get a response?

"Dear Veronica

Thank you for your reply which, thankfully, is not a carbon copy of the response that some people have received.  This appeared to be a "Standard Reply" with an added paragraph and the word IVF slipped in.

I still do not find the reasoning for Channel 4 airing such things satisfactory and feel that you are in some way suggesting that infertile people are just "over sensitive".  

On a separate note, you mention that "participants" will react in a way or express opinions that will be upsetting or cause offence.  Charlotte is not a participant of the show, she is the presenter.  Had the comment come from a guest on the show or a member of the audience then I would find it acceptable that they were merely a participant however, I still would have expected that such material be editted out of the re-run of the programme.  Also, I do realise that Charlotte may not create all of the material and therefore, the script writers and people who decide what is aired will have found these comments extremely amusing for it to be included in the show.  Infertility is not a laughing matter - it is a disability and just in case Channel 4 are unsure of the definition of disability it is "the inability to carry out major life activities".  I am certain that you will agree that creating life is the most major of life activities.  

Would Channel 4 air a programme with content which offends the blind, deaf, immobile or mentally impaired?  Would Channel 4 find it acceptable for script writers or presenters to make fun of people stricken with cancer?  Are Channel 4 suggesting that the opinions on these topics should be censored but opinions on infertility should not?  And if such programmes or comments were aired would Channel 4 respond to a complaint by saying "It's their opinion and yours doesn't matter". 

There should not be a double standard here and although you have said that Channel 4 will always look at the context or justification within Ofcom guidelines I will save comment regarding this until I receive my reply from Ofcom.  I would however point out that there is absolutely no justification for Channel 4 promoting a negative image of infertility and further alienating such a huge amount of people from the rest of society.  

I would also like you to note that as yet, infertility is not a political issue and until it is argued through the Courts or an MSP/MP becomes involved in raising awareness of this issue then I would say that it is likely that it will remain a non-political matter.  However, I will keep you posted as to my progress with this.

I would also like to request a reply to the questions posed in this email together with the address of the Chief Executive of Channel 4 in order that I can bring this matter to their full attention."


----------



## Stars*

Wow Cherriepie, that is really good!!!!

Lisaxxxx


----------



## Topkat08

Well Ladies here's the Fob Off i've just received...

Dear Nicola, 

Thank you for contacting Channel 4 Viewer Enquiries regarding THE CHARLOTTECHURCH SHOW. We are sorry to hear that you found Charlottes comments regarding IVF treatment to be insensitive and ignorant. Please be assured that your comments have been noted and logged. This log is distributed throughoutChannel 4 for all to read. Your comments will also be brought to the attention of those who make THE CHARLOTTE CHURCH SHOW. Thank you again for taking the time to contact us. We appreciate allfeedback from our viewers; complimentary or otherwise. Regards, Penny Watson Channel 4 Viewer Enquiries

Short n ''sweet''  

Take Care 
Nikki x

P.S U go Cherriepie, bet u dont get a response tho


----------



## Stars*

They just dont give a s**t do they!!!    

Lisa xx


----------



## Junnie

Well  I got a letter from OFcom...

the jist of the letter "we are looking into this matter"


----------



## Junnie

However...

Phone: 0845 076 0191 (lo-call number)
9am - 9pm Monday to Friday
10am - 7pm on weekends
10am - 6pm on public holidays

Thats channel4s contact number.. Can i just say these people LOVE hearing complaints lol and you can ask to speak to a supervisor

Oh and lookie what i found the email addresses for the executive of OfCom

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/csg/ofcom_exec/#smg

/links


----------



## talie

hi ladies
just seen my fob off email from ch4, same as your one topcat they did get one back   
well made me feel better anyway, so clearly they are not interested if they unset there viewers are they 
so let take this further then girls   what should we do??
love talie xx   xx

big up cherrypie fab email xx
junnie thanks for the no. will be using them xx


----------



## KellyG

what a awesome email cherrypie woop woop


----------



## cherriepie

With you on this one Talie - thought about a petition or something but not sure that would make a difference.  Liked Caz's idea of a sit in at Chief Executives office but.........

Also like the idea of going to the papers like Junnie said or maybe we should take my sisters advice and contact Phil and Fern - what does everyone think of going to This Morning?

If we all do it together then maybe we will get somewhere.     

xxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## talie

hiya ladies,
cherrypie im up for all of those honey, your fab with words why dont you send an email to phil and fern i will come with you if they arked you on there honey   if you need support, so yes lets go for it, why dont you start a petition on your web page and put it on here, if thats ok with tony an the team, what do you think?
love talie xx   xx


----------



## Caz

Has anyone thought perhaps of sending CC (or at least her fan club execs) a link to the Empty Arms video? I am just thinking that, perhaps rather than try and force C4 into giving a hoot (which they clearly don't and doubt they ever will even if theya re forced to apologise in the end), it might be better to appeal directly - and sensibly with something to demonstrate why those comments hurt so much. So far, we've had indignant and outraged but we haven't really made it clear why it was so heartful. Forget C4, they don't care;  I daresay CC doens't either but you might be able to get through there if you can be rational with it? 
Also, surely the point of this should be to educate why IF is such a rotten horrible thing to go through and why jokes about it are no fun and exactly how many people it does affect. Unless you achieve that then the "sorry"  no matter how personal, is meaningless.

Just a thought.

C~x


----------



## Stars*

Katie, have you been on her website? At hte bottom it has a contact us bit


Lisa xx


----------



## Junnie

ill be glad to draft a letter to fern and phil today!


----------



## Stars*

Katie, its easily missed cos its in tiny writing at the bottom 

Lisa xx


----------



## brownowl23

Caz said:


> Has anyone thought perhaps of sending CC (or at least her fan club execs) a link to the Empty Arms video? I am just thinking that, perhaps rather than try and force C4 into giving a hoot (which they clearly don't and doubt they ever will even if theya re forced to apologise in the end), it might be better to appeal directly - and sensibly with something to demonstrate why those comments hurt so much. So far, we've had indignant and outraged but we haven't really made it clear why it was so heartful. Forget C4, they don't care; I daresay CC doens't either but you might be able to get through there if you can be rational with it?
> Also, surely the point of this should be to educate why IF is such a rotten horrible thing to go through and why jokes about it are no fun and exactly how many people it does affect. Unless you achieve that then the "sorry" no matter how personal, is meaningless.
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> C~x
> /links
> 
> [red]This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites[/red]


Caz when I did my letter I put a link to KEllie Coffeys video, which is just as powerful as empty arms. 




HEre is the fob off reply I got even with something as powerful as that in my complaint.

Dear Ms Smith,

Thank you for contacting Channel 4 Viewer Enquiries regarding THE CHARLOTTE
CHURCH SHOW.

We are sorry to hear that you found Charlottes comments regarding IVF
treatment to be insensitive and feel Charlotte should make a public apology.
Please be assured that your comments have been noted and logged. This log is
distributed throughout Channel 4 for all to read. Your comments will also be
brought to the attention of those who make THE CHARLOTTE CHURCH SHOW.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact us. We appreciate all
feedback from our viewers; complimentary or otherwise.

Regards,

Penny Watson
Channel 4 Viewer Enquiries


----------



## talie

hiya ladies,
cherrypie take a look at proposals to end postcode lottery need you come back on a comment made, i have done mine but its not at good as yours well be.
love talie xx  xx
Hiya junnie sorry babes yes go for it your also very good with words post it on here so we can take a look xx


----------



## LuuLuu

Here's the response I got:

Thank you for contacting Channel 4 Viewer Enquiries regarding THE CHARLOTTE
CHURCH SHOW.

We were sorry to learn that you were offended by comments made by Charlotte
about IVF.

As a comedy programme it is always a possibility that participants will
react in a way, or express opinions, which a viewer may disagree with or
find upsetting and may be considered inappropriate by some. It is important
that within the context and structure of the programme that participants
have the right to express themselves without censure; however, Channel 4
remains impartial on all political issues

We do appreciate that some viewers will find certain comments or actions
unacceptable and we will always look at the context and the justification in
screening certain scenes or conversations in line with the Ofcom
regulations.

Nevertheless your comments are welcome and have been logged for the
attention of the programme makers.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact us. We appreciate all
feedback from our viewers; complimentary or otherwise.

Regards,

Veronica Way
Channel 4 Viewer Enquiries

Not impressed!!!!  Clearly about 3 standard responses.

I've told them to send it to someone higher.


----------



## caz24

i got a letter from efcom!! here's what it says (it's a bit long!)

the Charlotte church show c4 07/08/2008 22:00

thankyou for your complaint we understand that you were offended by comments made by Charlotte church regarding IVF we have now had the opportunity to view a recording and i can now advise that we do not believe that this breaches our broadcasting code.

we consider complaints about such matters in relation to rules 2.1 and 2.3 of the code which require generally accepted standereds must be applied to protect viewers from the inclusion of material which may cause harm or offence.

in applying generally accepted standered, the code directs broadcasters to ensure that material which may cause offence is justified by the context, and also not to include material which, taking into account the context condones or glamorises violent dangerous or seriously antisocail behaviour and is likely to encourage others to copy such behaviour. context includes but is not limited to:
the editorial contents of the programme
the service on which the material is broadcast
the degree of harm or offence likely to be caused
the likely expectation of the audience

whilst we do not doubt the offence this caused you, we do not believe this content was at odds with the nature of the particular programme.

changing or deliberately flouting the boundaries of taste in comedy is permissible so long as the material is not gratuitously cruel or humiliates individuals or groups. we place no restrictions on the subject matterthat can be used for comedy purposes. humour is an area where sensitives can differ considerably - some viewers with a personal connection to a particular topic will always find jokes in that area offensive and inappriate. but writers and perform do have a freedon of expression to explore even the most contentious of subjects providing that the programme is appropriately scheduled and the material is not likely to exceed the audiences expectations.

the opening part of the show which saw Charlotte church mocking various celebrities and talking about her past holiday exploits was typical of the lively humour that typically features in the show. it would appear that the point of the anecdote that saw her making reference to ivf was to pokefun at that type of hedonistic foreign holidays were a common feature. ultimately we didn't feel that this humour was likely to exceed expectations of the audience which is known for rather caustic humour which is certainly not to all tastes.

however we do recognise that for those who have a personal experience of infertility such off the cuff comments and casual jokes can certainly come across as insensitive and can cause considerable upset. for this reason we have decided to contact the broadcaster and make them aware of the strong viewer reaction to this episode and request that they consider this when filming future broadcasts of the show.

thank you for taking the trouble to contact us. it is important to know what the audience thinks even though on this occasion we have not upheld your compliant.

yours sincerely
Louise manning
broadcast support.



sorry if there are loads of mistakes and spelling just thought I'd let you all know what the general replie might be.

take care girls xx
Caz xx


----------



## Caz

brownowl23 said:


> Caz when I did my letter I put a link to KEllie Coffeys video, which is just as powerful as empty arms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HEre is the fob off reply I got even with something as powerful as that in my complaint.
> 
> Dear Ms Smith,
> 
> Thank you for contacting Channel 4 Viewer Enquiries regarding THE CHARLOTTE
> CHURCH SHOW.
> 
> We are sorry to hear that you found Charlottes comments regarding IVF
> treatment to be insensitive and feel Charlotte should make a public apology.
> Please be assured that your comments have been noted and logged. This log is
> distributed throughout Channel 4 for all to read. Your comments will also be
> brought to the attention of those who make THE CHARLOTTE CHURCH SHOW.
> 
> Thank you again for taking the time to contact us. We appreciate all
> feedback from our viewers; complimentary or otherwise.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Penny Watson
> Channel 4 Viewer Enquiries


Yes, that was something you sent to C4 which, as I said, do not care nor will they ever. I doubt they even clicked the link.  
The point of my original suggestion was exactly that. 
If you could "get through" to Charlotte Church without the layers of C4's cynicism getting in the way - perhaps via her website or fan club - and if you could do it in a way that wasn't outragous (because it seems part of the point of her show is to offend as many people in as shallow way possible so if you come across all ingidnant and angry that's just fuel for the fire) then maybe one of her team might just sit down and watch that video and might think "hmm..." and then maybe the might show someone else, who shows someone else who...eventually shows Charlotte herself. And then, maybe, just maybe, next time her scriptwriters put a daft pointless joke in there about something she has gained a better understanding of, she might have the common sense to ditch the cheap laughs and say "nope, not saying that". Personally, that would be far more satisfying than any apology.

Caz24, interesting reply from OfCom. Pretty much what I expected but interesting to see they seem to have actually watched it and given a tailored reply rather than the bog-standard C4 nonsense. And encouraging that they are contacting the programme makers to make them aware of the audience reaction. I doubt it will change matters but I do have a lot more faith in OfCom that C4.

C~x


----------



## Junnie

I got a letter from Ofcom I will scan it later its 2 pages! basically the jist of it was the same as yours.. Except that "we understand that this may have offended you but it is after 10" goes on to explain the nature of her joke...

and they did mention that htey had an OVERWHELMING response to it.

i will call them today too lol


----------



## talie

elizabeta you did make me giggle    (what a shame)
got my ofcom letter what a load of bull   not happy dont really want to fight with ofcom
love talie xx   xx


----------



## NuttyJo

i got the same sorta letter from ofcom... basically it was after 10pm so it was fine to be shown   am i supposed to go to bed before then so i dont have to feel abused by 'commedians'?!!


----------



## cherriepie

Hey ladies

How are you all today?  Received a letter from Ofcom this morning which was an exact copy of the one Caz24 posted on here.  Also noticed that Veronica Way responded to Lulu with exact same email.  Am guessing the complaints list was split amongst the complaints team at Channel 4!!!  Nice to know they have taken on board each persons comments and queries (oh wait a second....they didn't)

Talie - just seen that you wanted me to look at the post code lottery thread - I can't find it so can you give me the link please.  Am going to write to Fern & Phil about the whole infertility thing in general cos like I said before I really want to raise awareness of it in the hope that some of the myths and silly ideas that people who aren't effected by infertility have can be dispelled once and for all (eventually).  If I had to go on TV I would be quaking in my boots so yeah - I would need all the support I could get.  

Which leads me on to.......

Junnie - I would be delighted to have you draft a letter to Fern & Phil.  Maybe we can both write down our views on why awareness of infertility should be raised and a bit about Channel 4 and then combine them?  How would you feel if they asked us to go on show?  

Know that appearing on the show is a long shot but they do appear to run pieces with a similiar nature so it's worth a try.

If anyone else would like to have their say in the letter, whether it be opinions or experiences then it would be very welcome.

Am also looking at getting an MSP and MP involved in raising awareness.  Just waiting for an appointment with Local MSP to try and find out who would be best to target.  Any ideas on this would be welcome.  Think it would be good if we could get MSP/MP that has some experience of infertility etc but not sure if there are any or if they would be willing to tell the great british public that they do.

Caz - As you are a moderator I was wondering if you would know whether FF would let us post a petition on the site?  

Hope everyone is having a fab Friday

   

Cherriepie

xxxxxxxxx


----------



## Topkat08

U go Cherriepie  im backing ya!!!

Heres the link Talie wanted u to look at: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=153666.0

Take Care 
Nikki x


----------



## professor waffle

I got my reply from Ofcom which was disappointingly the same as everyone elses


----------



## Junnie

Cherrie lets do this.. Ill pm you my email addy do you have msn or something.. lets make a letter together.. and send it 


2 brains are better then 1


----------



## Caz

cherriepie said:


> Caz - As you are a moderator I was wondering if you would know whether FF would let us post a petition on the site?


I can't think of a reason why not (we've had petitions for all sorts of things linked here before) but I think you'd really have to check with the Admin team about that. Perhaps PM one of them.

I was wondering exactly what the petition would be about? What would be its aim and how do you think it would be more effective when personal complaints to C4 and OfCom haven't been? Bascially, what I am asking is What is it that you want to happen? 
I think if you are going to organise anything like this you really need to be absolutely clear on your goals and realistic about your chances of success. Bit like IVF really! 

C~x


----------



## cherriepie

Hey Caz

I think the main aim, from my point of view, would be to bring to C4's attention the sheer scale of the people effected by infertility and how many people they run the risk of offending and ceasing to watch C4 if they continue to broadcast this type of material.

I fully appreciate that not everyone on this site (or elsewhere) will have seen the show or even read this thread however I think there is a possibility that a petition would perhaps make C4 think twice about airing further shows with such content.  Since we know that C4 appreciate that a lot of people were offended as they complained perhaps a petition with even more signatures would do some good if they realised that there are even more people who may be offended or upset by thoughtless comments.

What do you think?  From what has been said previously I think you may have had experience with similar things and anything that you could pass on would be really helpful.  I am still relatively new to the whole infertility game.  My Mum keeps telling me that I am going through "the angry phase" but for me it feels like it runs a little deeper than that.

Cherriepie    

xxxxx


----------



## Junnie

I agree with Cherrie.. 

Basically get the awarness out there.. that going through the struggle of tx is not the same as "refering to hedonistic holidays where such sexual nature takes place"--OFcom quote

I think also getting recognized as a form of disability and not something to make light of.

This isnt the first comment that was said.


----------



## NuttyJo

I agree that it should be made aware of as being a disability and not something i suffer from out of choice as many people think due to stupid comments and not enough information and awareness of infertility. 

People need to see what sort of effect it has on us and that its not something to joke about or self inflicted.

I would sign the petition


----------



## talie

hows it going girls,
feel there could not be a better time to make people aware of fertility so really behind you ladies, 
lets really go for it   and make a difference 
love talie xx   xx


----------



## loobylou713

If you want IF to be classed as a disability what would you gain from it? What i mean is i am hard of hearing and i am classed as disabled but i still have to pay for my hearing aids. Even if it was classed it would make no difference to what we get or how people see us. Infertility is known by most people but it will never get the recognition, people think either it is not important or why should the nhs pay for us to have a child. 

You should not let IF get to you it is a part of who we are. I for one would love a baby i will not stop until i get one. But I won't let it make me a angry person. You will get to the stage when comments go over your head. I watched the programme again in case i missed something but her comments did not phase me. I mean we all know we can't go to ibiza and get pregnant on a one night stand i just said I wish. But it is true it happened to a friend of mine lol not ibiza but Majorca when we was younger and on a 18-30 holiday.

Girls let it go, it was a comment thats all. This country as gone bonkers on politically correct stuff.

Linda


----------



## Miranda7

Hear hear Linda!

I'm afraid comedy always has a victim - whether than victim is Irish, has a false leg, has Tourette's, whatever it is there are jokes out there that crack people up.

In this case it was a bit of a feeble joke, so the uncomfortable laughs were at her not with her. I think by going any further with a complaint it makes the IF community look a little reactionary and won't help us.

Jokes about Heather Mills kill me as my mum is an amputee, but I realise that complaining will get me nowhere - that's just comedy for you. 
I feel that the papers demonised her disability, somehow making all amputees seem like evil characters, rather than focusing on what they actually didn't like about Ms Mills.
Charlotte's little joke just played on the common notion that if only us uptight, frigid biatches chilled out a bit we'd be up the duff in no time. There are no problems with low sperm counts, PCOS, endo, vasectmies, yada yada, in her world, so how would she know?
And so what? We'll never dispell that notion that all you have to do is relax in the easy breeders of this world. Ignore em.

If the whole country was rolling in the aisles at the thought of our infertility problems then yeah, it would be worth making a point. But actually, like most of Charlotte's stand-up, it wasn't written well and wasn't delivered well - no one would remember it apart from us!


----------



## NuttyJo

so what you're sayng is we should forget the hurt it caused us and the pain that we felt being humiliated by the 'joke' she said? 

sorry but i dont think it was funny and i cannot let it 'go over my head'. i maybe in the 'angry stage' but thats just how i feel. i want a family and i dont find that a joking matter at all


----------



## Miranda7

No, you don't forget being hurt like that - that's why I compared it to amputee jokes.

I'm ssaying people won't get it, and to pick our battles - we'd be far better campaigning against the HFEA, for instance, or positively trying to get IF stories in the news agenda rather than just reacting to so-called humour.

I'm willing to bet there are things that make all of us laugh that would hurt others. It doesn't make it right, it's just the way 'comedy' is these days.


----------



## viviennef

Hi, I've just come across this thread. I think the point is that we have to make everyone aware how much infertility does affect you. It's not just about Charlotte Church but people in general. I personally have found that no one really understands what it's like unless you've experienced it. Carol McGiffen on Loose Women really upset me as she would frequently make comments about how IVF was the easy option  . She obviously had no idea what she was talking about. 

I had to sit in work one day and listen to other women discuss how IVF was unnatural. They didn't know that I had been through it and I was pregnant with Daniel at the time. I ended up in tears in the toilet at their ignorance. It's people like that we have to reach. I know I have been incredibly lucky in that I now have my boys but the whole experience never leaves you. It's also a fact that women who have been through IF are more likely to develop post and pre natal depression. I have personally experienced this.

The idea of going on This Morning is fab as I think you will reach a wide audience. I hope you go ahead with this and I for one will support you every bit of the way.

Viv


----------



## Miranda7

Ugh, Carol McGiffin is such an insensitive tw*t. I could have hurled my (42-inch!) telly out the window the other day in utter rage.   I think she has a 'thing' about IVF for some reason. Some people do, oddly.

Loose Women generally seems a pile of poo - what's the point of it?

Do those colleagues wear make-up? Eat processed food? Not live in a cave? What's natural these days?

I think even after having a child one always feels different to other parents, you still feel infertile.


----------



## cherriepie

Hey Ladies

Know that we could be here forever debating this but from my point of view having infetility recognised as a disability is not about getting back at Channel 4 or Charlotte Church.  Yes the comment did get to me but it made me more determined to at least attempt to promote some kind of understanding of this matter amongst the general public.  

Who are we to sit and say it is not worth trying and presume that the public will not be interested?  Who are we to say that by giving them the right information that they would still hold the same negative opionions.  To me that is like saying that the rest of the population (who don't have fertility problems) do not have big enough hearts to care or the intelligence to make up their own minds.  I am not an angry person I just feel that people have not been provided with the opportunity to learn the reality of infertility.  I for one know that before I found out I could not have children I knew virtually nothing (and will admit that my ignorance at that time extended to me actually thinking that babies were made in test tubes and I know from personal experience that many people still think that is true!).

Aside from that, and I suppose on a personal note, I feel that having infertility recognised as a disability would give couples like us more protection, particularly in the work place.  I have chatted with quite a few ladies who have had to give up work to be able to attend appointments for treatment etc and I myself was "demoted" when starting treatment as they made the assumption that I would need weeks and weeks off from work.  Their opinions regarding the process of IVF was an uneducated one which showed no bearing on the reality.  Only recently my employer decided not to pay me when attending appointments at the clinic despite the fact that the government states that paid time off for GP and hospital appointments should be given.  I, like everyone else who requires fertility treatment, fall through a loop hole - IVF is an "elective" treatment!!!  Now, I do not view my treatment as elective and would never compare it with an elective treatment such as plastic surgery like boob jobs and botox but my employers can and therefore do not have to pay me.  

My DH was laid off whilst within the 12 week period from his employer as "his head was not in it due to my undergoing IVF"!!

Unfortunately, I for one, do not see why I should sit by and simply allow this to happen over and over to other people and not at least try to do something about it.

My need to raise awareness goes far beyond trying to stop some silly little girl making comments about IVF.  For me it's about trying to get some protection for people who require fertility treatment.  It is not about having the NHS pay for unlimited cycles for everyone although I do think that the postcode lottery needs to end and would fully support any attempt to make this a reality.  I think everyone has the right to be supported by their employers whilst undergoing treatment and feel reassured that their livliehoods are protected whilst having such treatments.

On another note, yes I would like to break the taboo which surrounds infertility.  I would like friends and family to be aware of the possible "right things to say and do" and realise that it's ok to talk about it.  I would like people to know how to support someone who is battling infertility so that they don't feel so isolated.  I would like to promote understanding so that the number of people effected by infertility does not rise to 1 in 3 as recently predicted by researchers as I don't want to see so many people go through this kind of heartache.

I appreciate that it's a big dream and I appreciate that some people will think it's a poitnless one but I don't want to sit back and not even try.  Not so long ago people who had cancer were put in nursing homes to die.  People didn't understand or talk about it.  Only in the 80's was understanding and knowledge of HIV and AIDS promoted and put an end to people who are effected being/feeling like outcasts in society.  So why can't the same happen with infertility.

The human ability to show compassion and understand is unlimited if provided with the right information so why not try?

xxxxxxxxxx


----------



## viviennef

Cherriepie - agree with you 100%

Viv


----------



## cherriepie

Hey Vivienne

Agree with your comments too.  Just wanted to say that your two boys are wee crackers (can you tell that I am Scottish.....lol) so very very handsome.

xxxxx


----------



## talie

Me to 100% with cherrypie go for it honey 
love talie xx   xx


----------



## cherriepie

Thanks Talie - working on a couple of things just now!  If I could stay off of FF I might get on a little quicker....lmao.  DH says I am an FF addict!!!     

Love Cherriepie   

xxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Caz

cherriepie said:


> I think the main aim, from my point of view, would be to bring to C4's attention the sheer scale of the people effected by infertility and how many people they run the risk of offending and ceasing to watch C4 if they continue to broadcast this type of material.
> 
> I fully appreciate that not everyone on this site (or elsewhere) will have seen the show or even read this thread however I think there is a possibility that a petition would perhaps make C4 think twice about airing further shows with such content. Since we know that C4 appreciate that a lot of people were offended as they complained perhaps a petition with even more signatures would do some good if they realised that there are even more people who may be offended or upset by thoughtless comments.
> 
> What do you think? From what has been said previously I think you may have had experience with similar things and anything that you could pass on would be really helpful. I am still relatively new to the whole infertility game. My Mum keeps telling me that I am going through "the angry phase" but for me it feels like it runs a little deeper than that.
> 
> Cherriepie
> 
> xxxxx


Thank you.

Yes, I have to sort of agree with your mum (sorry, don't hate me!) Not that it's a bad thing but, if you think about it, Infertility is kind of like a bereavement of sorts. You are grieving for the loss of something that you can't quite explain - well, at least for those who have not experienced the same; it is such a private and personal sense of loss.
One of the phases you go through when suffering a loss is anger, often followed at some point by acceptance but not always. You know some people are angry about their IF forever, even if they finally conquer it, and because you have no external source to be angry at (in most cases at least) then you often direct that towards yourself and your partner - why IF is so hard on relationships - then this manifests in an exagertated (to outsiders) reaction to anything that belittles your pain. That's not to say your outrage is an abnormal reaction because it's not as it is clearly important to you so a fact that can't be disputed. However to others it can be seen and an extreme and abnormal reaction. We all have different perceptions and they are all based on our old world experiences. Example; When we were first ttc and finding it hard I used to say _"I'd settle for a miscarriage"_ and I bet that probably peed off anyone who'd had one. Then I had one myself and realised what a horifically insensitive thing it was to say. 

For me I think your "goal" of the petition is a bit wooly. You have already raised this to C4s attention and to OfCom and received, ok not satisfactory replies but responses at least. While I know C4 will give you the fob off, I do hope that you could have faith enough in OfCom to make a fair judgement and it does seem that they have, at least, done the homework and given a more valid reason why this complaint won't be taken further. To try and petition them to see the sheer scale of the people effecctd in the hope they will think twice about airing this stuff is sheer folly. TV channels regularly air controversial material, and makes no apology for it. I was watching the other night, a comedy where both gays and Jews were "mocked" albiet in passing and not as the butt of the joke; TBH, the context in which they were mentioned was said was no different to that which CC used her comment about IVF. I am sure someone somewhere will be writing in to complain about that too.

Ok what I am trying to say is that I see a lot of anger on this thread and, as I said before anger is normal but it can be a very destructive force if you don't recognise it and control it. A scary amount of personal and emotional energy is going into "hating" and at the moment all I see is a lot of angry people winding themsleves tighter and tighter in circles around an issue that, for all intents and purposes is now second hand news. To me it seems this thread has been more about an outlet for your anger than any real sense of wanting to acheive anything and, you know, that's fine and good that you have somewhere to vent but, not good to turn it in on yourseleves. Some battles can't be won but that doesn't mean you don't fight them. BUT...you only fight them if losing them acheives something anyway, albiet not quite what you want just yet (think the Suffragettes to get what I'm trying to say - a woman killing herself in front of the king's horse didn't win women the vote but it sure made a lot of people sit up and take notice of the cause). 
Errr, not suggesting anyone go for a sprint around Aintree with a IF Rights banner or anything...  
What I am saying is that there is a lot of energy here - loads, and, up until now it's been very negatively applied. Just these last few posts though, I can see you starting to turn it round into something more positive and I think it would be great if something good comes from this and, you know, I think you might yet be able to stick two fingers up to Ms Church and C4 by doing just that and stuff their apology - who needs it.  
Have a petition if you want and if it helps you focus but don't have a petition to make C4 "think twice" (they won't). Have one that has a realistic goal or at least a goal that makes a real difference - have one to raise IF awareness or to have it classed as a disability or to have a more positive portrayal of fertility tx in the media because if you can do that you might actually find people will prick up their ears and take notice. Who knows where you can go from there.



> If you want IF to be classed as a disability what would you gain from it? What i mean is i am hard of hearing and i am classed as disabled but i still have to pay for my hearing aids. Even if it was classed it would make no difference to what we get or how people see us. Infertility is known by most people but it will never get the recognition, people think either it is not important or why should the nhs pay for us to have a child.


Linda, I see your point but actually I do see why IF being classed as a disability would benefit us because...well, cherripie said it best, it may offer some protection in the workplace and, actually, it may also give some credence to us when we complain about "jokes" being made of it. Won't stop people making them but will make people think about whether they should be making them.
IF as a disability is an interesting concept I have never explored before. I wonder if there is any precedent anywhere for this? Hmm, now that's a project for you. 

C~x

P.S. I just want to say that the opinions expressed here are my own and not those of FF.


----------



## cherriepie

Hey Caz

You know what - I think you are right about two things; 1. yeah I am probably in the angry stage but really am trying my best to turn it into something positive, not only to help myself but to at least try and make things a little better for others too and 2. about the petitioning Channel 4 thing.  I agree that the energy would be best placed in a petition for infertility to be classed as a disability.

I have looked into this already and it has never been argued in the UK however, in 1998 infertility was introdced to the American DDA as a disability in the US is defined as "an inability to perform major life activities".  The judge ruled that creating life was the most major of life activities.  This in turn gave couples receiving fertility treatment protection with employers which was already expected for those who could naturally conceive (maternity pay etc) and those adopting/fostering (paid time off etc).

I guess what I am trying to say is thanks for your comments too as they made me regroup and focus on what really is important to me (and has been for quite some time I just lost sight of it for a bit).  It's not Miss Church or Channel 4.  More like the lack of understanding in general and in particular the negative things that happen to couples like us, particularly with regard to employers.

I think I am going to continue to try and promote awareness and if we could get onto This Morning that would be a phenominal start.  I think I will also start the petition to have infertility classed as a disability and instead of sending it to Channel 4 it should maybe go to Downing Street.  This type of petition would perhaps draw some attention?

When I talk about having infertility recognised as a disability it is about getting some protection not about monetrary gain (someone told me they didn't think that I should be entitled to Disability Living Allowance just because I am infertile and I agree.  I was just sad to see that she though infertile people were all about getting money for treatments etc and couldn't see the bigger picture and issues that surround it and I told her so too).  I am not sure whether anyone has tried anything similar before but I think it's worth a shot!

Thanks!    

Cherriepie 

xxxxxxxxx


----------



## talie

hi girls, 
i  know what you mean caz i too am prob another person your taking about when you say a lot of anger on this tread, i do have a lot of anger inside me at the mo, the same as cherrypie i am just getting over a mc, the strange thing is im such a chilled out person im not a angey bitter person at all and i bet cherrypies the same, the thing is anger is not a bad feeling when directed into something positive, surely its better to put it into something like changing veiws and making thing easer for others suffing with IF then like you say caz directing it at yourself and your loved ones, (my DH is lucky i have had this tread to post mine anger onto really   ) and i think we all know this it well beyond the cc comment.
caz you have made me stop and think thought i dont want to be this person i want my old self back something my lovely husbands been trying to tell me for weeks, so thanks for that honey xx
love talie xx   xx


----------



## Junnie

Cherrie.. 

You shoud see this letter ive just started lol we have to get together on this... ive got 2 pages of factual things i.e the disability acts of america etc. 


Ladies, 

I see your point about Miss C.C however... lets be real if she said something that talked about single moms on benefits... or about Blind people she would have had to apologize.. in fact those subjectsare SO taboo her writters wouldnt take that chance.

The fact is IF is deemed funny to those that dont suffer "haha what you complaining about its like instant Contraception" "I bet you guys never have to wear a condom" etc. 

I want people to recognize this is a big problem... its as big as the other causes out there but its not heard of. Let us remember AIDS was something that was hush hush nothing said about it and now look at all the awarness.

i think what Myself and Cherrie (correct me if im wrong) are trying to do.. is say NO this isnt right to make light of this.. Its a serious problem that effects woman and men and can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, loss of job etc. 

I just want to raise awarness.... and I guess i owe Miss Church a thank you because without her comments I wouldnt have started this uproar


----------



## NuttyJo

I must apologise for my outburst last night! I was rather tipsy and was feeling very angry and took it out on this tread   It was the release I needed at that time as i had kept it bottled in since my m/c for fear of people not understanding how it felt to suffer from IF. Im not normally an angry person but i do get times when it hits me!   

Anyway, i agree totally about tryin to get protection for people (not just women) who suffer from IF in the workplace as i myself had to leave my job due to the time off i was having to take and i havnt been able to find another one since as i am still undergoing tx and employers just will not hire me due to this and the time i had to take off from my last job for appointments, depression from the IF and my endo. 

And yes i thknk people need to be educated about what we all go through and that we're not just 'wannabe parents' as quoted on another site about the postcode lottery coming to an end for IVF tx. Its not at all about wanting disability allowance as some might think, its about finding understanding and educating people so that these remarks - for example what CC said on tv - will not happen as frequently and not be as acceptable as it is right now to do so. 

Junnie and Cherry I think you're doing a fantastic job and I will be glad to help anyway I can. 

Jo x


----------



## Camly

hi all 

just found this thread - i too was outraged when Charlie Church's new show came on - we nearly went thru ivf but are now on the adoption route - CC slated IVF and also adoption which i thought was out of order! this is the reason i now dont watch her show. 

good luck with your campaign ladies  

camly x x


----------



## cherriepie

Hey Junnie - Can you email me the letter to have a look.  Got a feeling it will be fantastic!

Hey NuttyJo - Am so so sorry to hear about your m/c.  And of course your work situation - I totally empathise and for me it really just compounds everything else I have to deal with.

Talie - I think we are all a little angry however I think it is quite justified and it's good that we have something positive to put that anger into.  

Like everyone else I have vented my anger on here at times and that's the exact reason I am so grateful for this site - without it I am certain my relationship would have suffered as that would have been the only place for the anger to go and to be honest DH has put up with enough emotion whilst going through tx (am buying him a suit of armour and a thick skin for our next tx if this one doesn't work.....lmao).

Let's do this girls - let's make a change for the better!

xxxxx


----------



## talie

cherry and junnie keep us in the know, how's it going. 
Me too cherry I am thankfull for this tread it has been a place for me direct my anger I will deff be behind you girls with anything you need but i need to lose this anger myself before my next treatment. 
Nuttyjo im with you honey glass of wine makes it easer to deal with take care xx
Love talie xx   xx


----------



## Caz

> I have looked into this already and it has never been argued in the UK however, in 1998 infertility was introdced to the American DDA as a disability in the US is defined as "an inability to perform major life activities". The judge ruled that creating life was the most major of life activities. This in turn gave couples receiving fertility treatment protection with employers which was already expected for those who could naturally conceive (maternity pay etc) and those adopting/fostering (paid time off etc).


Hmm that's interesting so, yes, there is precedent but not in the UK or EU. Do you know if anyone has challenged it in the UK or EU? I guess it would depend on our legal definition of "disability" under our laws but, often they are very similar to the U.S. and when something becomes set in a judgement one side of the pond it does translate over here eventually. I could imagine if it was ruled the same over here it would have a major impact on the way employers would have to handle and treat employees needing fertility treatment and that would be of huge benefit to everyone. You know it only takes one brave and tenacious person to raise the challenge and put the case forward to make a difference. I think I remember reading someone sucessfully challenging time off for treatment refused under the banner of sex discrimination... maybe I am imagining that?  
Anyway, I think it's shocking the way some people are treated when they need tx and, in fact, I can't say you get treated much better at work when actually pg or on mat leave or after you return from mat leave despite there being supposed legislations in place to protect us. I reckon if you did a survey on eveyone here and asked how supportive they felt their employer was of their tx then you'd find not many actually are. 

C~x


----------



## cherriepie

Hey Caz

No you aren't imagining it.  The case I think you are refering to is the Mayr case which was argued in the European Courrt of Justice.  She sucessfully agrued against her employer and the Court concluded that women are protected by European law on equal treatment of men and women - which is implemented in the UK through the Sex Discrimination Act.  

I agree that many laws which are implemented in the US are often brought in here and vice versa however I do think that after 10 years of the US having infertility covered under the DDA is a long time to wait for it to be implemented in the UK.  Maybe they need a nudge in the right direction.  Also, I am guessing that when the US introduced infertility to their DDA the story probably wasn't reported here so there is no reason to think that it is being or has been considered here in the UK.

Also, as this has not been argued in the UK it would be hard to determine whether the case would be successful.  I know one thing for certain - if I could find a solicitor who was willing to help me argue the case against my employer (a legal firm) I would go for it!  I have approached different Solicitors and once they know who I work for I don't hear anything from them again and they are forever in meetings or out of the office when I call.  Perhaps I should just argue it myself.....lol.

I fully appreciate that current legislation for maternity leave etc is far from perfect however, as it stands, an employer must ensure that there is a job for you to return to which is of equal standing of the one held prior to going on maternity leave.  Employers are required by law to give paid time off for appoitnments and many employers have implemented policies whereby parents can have paid time off to care for their dependants or children no questions asked.  It would just be nice to know that our jobs were protected whlst undergoing treatment.  

I also feel that protection under the Sex Discrimination Act may be slightly flawed in that infertility does not only effect either males or females and there is still the potential for an employer to argue that they would treat both men and women in the same way if they were undergoing fertility treatment.  I just think the UK really needs a law or legislation which completely protects us.  Infertility is sadly increasing and there is a potential here for unemployment to rise as a consequence if employers still have the ability to dismiss employees due to taking time off for treatment.

xxxxxxxxx


----------



## Tina xx

I'm sure that C.C would be sorry for the hurt she has caused and I would like to think that if she knew what hurt her comments had made, she wouldn't have said them 



Elizabeta said:


> Caz, ive just received exactly the same letter. A waste of paper imo. I hear she has a stalker though. What a shame.





talie said:


> elizabeta you did make me giggle  (what a shame)
> love talie xx  xx


Can I just say that my mum had a stalker when I was 14. The stalker would phone and threaten to kill my mum. They would follow her (Without her knowing) and would tell my mum what she had done that day. They also knew what me & my sister were doing (my sister was 13). We involved the police, they found out who was doing it and warned them to stop (but wouldn't tell us in case we went after the stalker) It was a very scary and stressful time for us all and I'm sure that you wouldn't wish that kind of stress on anyone (esp if they are pregnant and have a young child too). I know that she can afford security - but would you want to live like that?

Tina xx


----------



## talie

hiya,
no tina ofcause i would not wish a stalker on anybody at all and im sure you know that, had a little first hand experience myself as a kid when my mum had a few probs with someone herself.
so no i would not want to live like that but i think you know we was olny making light of it, cc does many jokes herself that upset many people so it was pushing the little we have back her way, sorry if you got hurt by me having a little giggle.
love talie xx   xx


----------



## Tina xx

Hi Talie,

I'm sorry that you have had experience with a stalker, my point in pointing this out was that a comment made by a person can cause offence without meaning to. That said, it's still not funny to make comments about IF, so she should have thought before making them   Hope you are ok    

Tina xx


----------



## Tina xx

Meant to add that you didn't offend me hun


----------



## talie

thats good tina i would never want to upset anybody on here were all on the same side, maybe i will be a little carefull with my message so i dont offend, dont want anybody to think im anything like cc herself my mouth is a bit smaller.
its a good point you make hon  
love talie xx  xx


----------



## Tina xx

I didn't think you were like CC, but she made one comment that might not have been intended to cause offence. I don't watch Loose Woman because that  Carole is always spouting off about IVF, IF and that she doesn't want children!! That's her opinion, but just because she doesn't want children, doesn't mean that others don't and I get really sick and tired of her   I did complain to ITV & Loose Women once, but got the standard response. I even told them to get her to pop onto FF and read what we all go through, but obviously they didn't pass on the message (as if they would) and she wouldn't have come online anyway   We could do with all of us visiting Loose Women studio when she is on the show and challenging her to her face    

Tina xx


----------



## talie

have to say i never really watch loose woman and dont want to if carole like that, i dont think she is very liked anyway, maybe we should try to get cherrypie and junnie to go on there and teach them about IF too, well sounds like carole need some teaching how to be a ladie first.
love talie xx  xx


----------



## Tina xx

couldn't agree more


----------



## NuttyJo

hmmmm, i think i now see where my grandad gets his specialised ivf information from as he watches loose women (strange in itself but there you go!)


----------



## Tina xx

It makes me laugh how people can make silly comments when they have no idea what they are talking about   I do think CC was just misguided with her comment, but Carole from Loose Women is just an evil old bag. There are enough ignorant people in the world witout her adding her uneducated (about IF, IVF etc) comments too


----------



## Topkat08

Hiya ladies,

I saw the posts about starting a petition for Channel 4. What about writing to Panorama, i know they are asking if there's anything we have something 2 say about anything.

I dont know but its gotta be worth a try.

Take Care 
Nikki x


----------



## cherriepie

Hey Nikki

Do you know if they have a link on their website about this?

xxxxx


----------



## Junnie

Hey Cherrie.. Sorry i got your messages.. ill get it to you today PROMISE we had a broken pipe!! so ive been moping!


----------



## Topkat08

Hi Cherriepie

just had a look on the website....
Heres the link to contact them: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/416244.stm

Let me know how u get on!

Take Care
Nikki x

/links


----------



## cherriepie

Oh junnie - that's not so good - hope you have it all sorted now!

Thanks for the link Nikki will go have a look now!

xxxxxxxx


----------



## Damelottie

Hello Elizabeta 

I think it was because you put 'What a shame' after the fact. It sounded sarcastic.

As another FF member has now said that they found that comment difficult, I think we should respect that and leave the fact that Charlotte Church has a stalker off this thread.

Thank you for your understanding with that.

Emma


----------



## Kleri

Sorry Caz but I think you are wrong.  One of the only ways peoples opinions are changed in our 5 min society is using a stars comments to bring issues to the forfront. 

I personally am being treated by people as if I have some dreadful disease. During my treatment no-one comes close no-one asks how I am, I seem to just disappear off the radar. This is only because people don't know what to say because they don't know enough.

As for starting to attack each other over small comments that doesn't help either! Do you really get offended that easily.. I hope not. 

It's not just the point that Charlotte's comments were offensive it is really that it makes us feel like a laughing stock, that what we're going through isn't important. Let's face it, it is made even worse by her being pg ... like a thorn in the eye.

Ok leave that for now can you use this comment to bring IF to the forfront? Probably not it's been too long now! Why do you think it takes so long for replies from the TV station by the time you really get angry the story is dead, un-newsworthy. Having personally worked in one of the publicity dept of a big TV company don't think that this doesn't work in their favour!

Keep watching girls next time get on the ball while the issue is fresh and run with it! 
Kleri
XXX


----------



## ckhayes

I complained to channel 4 and finaly got this (standard) reply

Dear Ms Morrissey,

Thank you for contacting Channel 4 Viewer Enquiries regarding THE CHARLOTTE
CHURCH SHOW.

We apologise for the delay in response, we are currently working through a
backlog of emails as quickly as possible.

We are sorry to hear that you felt Charlotte's comments in this programme to
be offensive. Please be assured that your complaint regarding this matter
has been noted and logged in the highest terms for the attention of the
programme makers, and also the Chief Executives of Channel 4. 

Thank you again for taking the time to contact us. We appreciate all
feedback from our viewers; complimentary or otherwise.

Regards, 

Jane Morgan
Channel 4 Viewer Enquiries

For information about Channel 4 have a look at our FAQ section at
www.channel4.com/help


----------



## talie

hi girls, 
just wanted to take a look over this topic again, as it was good for me to channel a little angler after a hard time with treatment, and im not really a fan of charlotte church    so was thankfully for this page.
anyway i just wanted to point out how many ladies chating on this page about 6 months ago are now pregnant, there is 10 pregnancy and how fab that is, keeps us all prositve, good luck girls hope your dreams come true and mine  
love talie xx   xx


----------



## LuuLuu

Hey Talie - that is really fab isn't it - lets come back in another 6 months and see if the rest of us are.

  

LuuLuu


----------



## talie

hi luuluu,
now wouldnt that be nice, i hope so luuluu, good luck to you hun lets do that in 6 months  
just blow you some bubbles hun 7 the fav number  
love talie xx   xx


----------



## LuuLuu

And some back to you - hope its our year!!!


----------



## talie

me too luuluu,
looks like you start treatment again soon good luck hun hope 2009 is your lucky year, keep positve and big hug to you luuluu   
love talie xx   xx


----------



## Be Lucky

Oh not again!i remember ther was an uproar bout sumthing she said on similar lines bout ivf bout 6 mths ago.dont take any notice of her!she just a silly little girl!berniex


----------



## Tina xx

Bernie, she hasn't said anything else hun, Talie was just comenting on how many of us have got pg since this thread was started xx


----------



## Be Lucky

Which i was 1 of them!heres hoping!though the comments seemed a bit familiar bx


----------



## talie

wow just taken a look over this thread again (as I started it) to see how many ladies have gone on to get there so wanted baby or babies, well can't believe so many ladies have made a dream come true, makes me feel more positive on my next treatment so wish me luck girls please let this be my turn  
all the best 
talie x x   x x


----------



## LoisLane

Sending you lots of luck for your next cycle Talie            

Loislane xxxx


----------



## mousey

Talie - wishing all the best for your next cycle - have been thinking about you after last year  . Keeping everything crossed for you   

 

M x


----------



## talie

hi ladies,

Loislane - thank you for all the positive vibes, that means a lot  , hope you have enjoyed your babies 1st year and have a great Xmas x x x

Mousey - how lovely to hear from you, thanks honey I often think of you and how treatments going for you, looks like you have really been going though the mill I'm so sorry you have had such a hard time    I will PM you x x x
have a great Xmas and next years going to be year Hun that one little blast is the special one I know it      
can I just say a big thank you for all your help and info at the beginning of the year, you made me feel like I wasn't alone in such a difficult time sweetie  

all the best ladies 
talie x x   x x


----------

