# Why is there so little in place to help people give up?



## flipper (Jul 7, 2004)

Hi there ladies

When we call it a day, there's nothing much out there to help is there? Yes the clinics are _obliged_ to have counselling available but that's not for everyone for a variety of different reasons. Personally, I would have to be in a drug induced stupor before going anywhere near my clinic, ever again for counselling or anything else.

I've been playing with an idea about a book which a few of you have shown some interest in.

Between us we have a remarkable amount of insight into this process and if we collaborated in a book, could provide support to women in similar positions (and it ought to be compulsory reading for clinics but that's another matter).

Book format: a 2500 word intro into the reality of failed treatments, stats, data, medical evidence etc. which I'm happy to co-write, followed by a number of "personal accounts" of giving up of roughly 2500 words, more or less is fine.

Personal account format: A brief history of what we've been through, similar to the tag things that some of us have at the bottom of the posts (btw, what are they called?) and then the personal account would pick up as you came to the realisation that it was game over, the emotions that you felt and, if appropriate, how you've moved on.

Now I realise this isn't everyone's bag so if you don't fancy it, it doesn't matter. If you do fancy it or have some ideas feel free to reply.

If we did get published, in the unlikely event of this thing making money, it would be donated to agreed charities (FF included) and your contribution could be anon if you like. Also it would be interesting to have a couple of her/his contributions (as my dh said, men give up too).

So basically that's it really. The idea is to create something that other women/couples can use to help them realise that they're not alone, their emotions are entirely natural and normal, something supportive and caring and something that provides hope for the future.

I'll set up a google document share thing for us going forward and perhaps we could create identities in skype or something similar so we can chat about it in a semi conference type arrangement.

Have a good weekend ladies.

Flipper


----------



## Maggie Mae (Mar 2, 2006)

Hey Pam, 

You know I am up for this is a big way - just wanted to say so publicly!

Love, 

MM xxx


----------



## Yamoona (Nov 7, 2005)

Me too, I think it's even more important now the **** are going to reduce the amount of embies implanted. There needs to be more support for those at the end of the road. Great idea.


----------



## solitaire (Mar 26, 2007)

Count me in.

When I was in the midst of ttc all those years ago, I couldn't find anything to help me make a considered choice. I was looking for something or someone to show me that living without children could be a positive option. Instead, it was all about what treatments were available next - as if there was no other way.

Many moons ago I volunteered for ISSUE and started to write a factsheet on coping. I never completed it for various reasons, but I felt then that more should be done to help those whose outcomes were not what they wanted. That was one of the reasons that More To Life was started.

Anything I can do, please let me know,
Love,
solitaire
xxx


----------



## s.a.f. (May 20, 2005)

Great idea Flipper, count me in.

just one thought though, you said that any profit would be donated to charities - I think that that we should use any profit to distribute lots of free copies to all the clinics and even GPs surgeries - either for doctors to give to patients or just to have available in waiting rooms.

The reason I say this is because I remember discussing that excellent book "Beyond Childlessness" with my counsellor at my clinic (this book coincidentally is a collection of interviews with childless women describing their experiences, - the authors are 2 women who are involuntarily childless themselves) and she thought it would be a good book to have there but didn't think the clinic would pay for it .........

Another thought is perhaps you could invite the members of More To Life to submit their personal accounts - one advantage of that is you would get some perspectives from people who may be, say, 10 years or more beyond "the end of the road" who can give an even longer term "view".


S.A.F.


----------



## ruby k (Jun 2, 2004)

Hey Flipper
This is a really good idea, I would love to be involved, so keep me posted! 

Funnily enough s.a.f, i have been reading 'beyond childlessness' and not finding it that helpful actually..   I'm not sure why? I have been sort of dipping in and out of it, maybe I should have been more chronological about things..?

I agree that it would be good to offer the book free of charge to clinics/patients.
ruby x


----------



## jomac (Oct 27, 2006)

Hi Flipper
I'm keen too - when do you need us write something by? Do you have a "cutoff" date.

BTW Solataire I LOVE your dog. Dalmations are one of my favourites. last time I had responsibility for one I was looking after a friends practice. Dog more trouble than everything else combined. She escaped and had her merry way ( if you know what I mean) with some local farmdogs who where not about to turn her away!! Story ended with me ringing up local vet asking if there was a dogie morning-after-pill  - fortunately there was. I loved Millie.

Lots love Jo


----------



## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi Flipper,

As you know, I am very happy to contribute.

Just a thought following on from the ideas above. I was so amazed to read that one clinic was unlikely to buy such a book. How little petty cash do they have? They certianly charge enough!
Made me wonder about publishing for free on the web? 

Please let us know about deadlines etc.

Much love.

Jq xxx


----------



## QD (Aug 15, 2003)

Dear All

Sorry to barge in without introduction but I would love to contribute to such a project.  You can read my sorry tale at the foot of my message.  At this point I am trying to move on and have accepted that more fertility treatment is not for me.  (I am still in the state of secretly hoping for a miracle naturally but am trying to close that door too).  In fact my dh & I are so desperate for change and movement, after having put our lives on hold for so many years, that we are moving to New Zealand in just over 2 weeks!  Dh has a permanent job offer so we are packing up ourselves and the dog, renting our house in London and going to the other side of the world to reinvent ourselves!  Very scary but has to be done.

I am also puzzled as to why there is so little out there for people in our position.  I have looked at a few books in the library but have yet to come across anything that really resonates.  Like Ruby I did not really get on with 'Beyond Childlessness', not least because it had case studies in it from women who already had a child and were unable to have a second one (interesting definition of 'childlessness'!).  I am also fed up of reading case studies where the writer, after endless cycles of IVF, heatbreak & misery etc. etc., eventually succeeds in having a child.  This does not give me hope or encourage me to feel better about my lot. It just makes me feel increasingly isolated and lonely.  I am also tired of constantly being offered an increasingly smaller selection of options for continuing treatment (Ivig, adoption, DE) as if treatment was the only way to move on in life.  I want to move beyond treatment to a world where I am content with my childless state.  I want to know that peace and happiness does exist somewhere for me and my dh and that it is OK to be involuntarily childless.

I hope I don't sound too militant and scary in my first post in this forum!  I would just love to be involved in this project if possible.  i think it could really make a difference.

Hope to 'speak' to you all again, even if it is from the other side of the world!
QD


----------



## Megan10 (Jul 16, 2004)

Hi Flipper,
Definately count me in on this. I am at the early stages of letting go and remodeling my life for a different future but I am sure people at varying stages would be a good mix to have in such a book. I too would see the value in approaching the 'More to life' members to find people many years into the journey and perhaps having successfully transitioned their lives to take another path. Those are the stories I have searched hard for and hardly ever found.
Good on you for driving and facilitating this.
Love MeganXXXX


----------



## emmag (Mar 11, 2007)

I love this idea. It took me ages to find this forum, and as far as I can tell, this forum is the only place in the whole world which is relevant to the way that I feel. I think it would have been incredibly helpful to read such thoughts and experiences when deciding to move away from treatment and ttc. I'm in!


----------



## flipper (Jul 7, 2004)

Hi ladies

Sorry for going all quiet on you, I've been laid low by a horrible, horrible virus.  Anyway, I'm going into work late today so here I am.

Thanks for the support with the idea. Out of idle curiosity this morning I typed "IVF" into google and got 59 million hits.  I typed "IVF giving up" and got 48,000.  Less than .1% and just on the first page alone most "giving up" articles were actually about adopting, a couple of unlikely conception after giving up type stories (   ) etc.  If the first page was typical then a it's got to by less than .01% is actually about giving up.

Web publishing is a good way to make it free for all. I don't know much about it to be honest but I'll try to find out.

As for deadlines I guess if I could have half a dozen personal accounts by the end of May that would be a start.  I've had a few offers of proof reading, thanks ladies, so we should be able to submit something reasonably well polished.

I know people have mixed views about Prof Winston but I once traded emails with the guy and he was pretty approachable so I'm minded to contact him again and see if I can't get him to say something very positive about our little exercise as that would almost guarantee publication.

Because I've been ill I haven't been able to investigate the google thing but I'll try and do it over the next few days.

S.A.F, I like the idea of inviting "MTLifers" to contribute, are you a member by any chance?  As for profit, I guess it depends on the size of the royalties. A few of my relatives are published authors and occasionally get a £2 chq in the post. Maybe the web publishing thing could sort that out for us, even a clinic could stretch to a post-it note with a web address on it.

Anyway, I better go and have my shower so I can go to work.  I'm really excited about this project however, thanks again for your support.

flipper


----------



## Yamoona (Nov 7, 2005)

Where would you like us to post our stories?


----------



## Maggie Mae (Mar 2, 2006)

F, just quickly, I'm also a member of MTF if I can help in that direction, and end of May deadline works well for me! MM xx


----------



## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

I'm in on this as you already know my Flippy little pal - sounds like there is a distinct lack of stuff for those of us and the multitude of people out there like us...

Hope you're feeling better after your attack of the viral grotties sweetie  

Emcee xxx


----------



## s.a.f. (May 20, 2005)

Hi Flipper,

yes - I am a More to Lifer ! It would be good if you could put something in their quarterly newsletter asking for contributions. The next one is due out in May but the copy date was published as 8th April but sometimes they accept late contributions. Let me know if you want me to find out for you.

S.A.F.


----------

