# Had a horrible thought today



## Myownangel (Aug 24, 2005)

Well dh and I were listening to the radio and the DJ was blathering on about some parents and their kid's first day back at school, so we were jokingly overriding the story with 'Boring! Boring! Let's have some NEWS please,' etc and I suddenly thought to myself - maybe I don't actually want to have kids after all. I'm 41 now and so used to not having them I feel quite alien to the world of parenting. I know I'm supposed to be coming to terms with not having kids (d'uh - that's why I'm on this board). But today it was like a revelation - and it didn't feel that comfortable. If I did fall preggers now I'd be an 'old' mum (although I'm pretty young at heart). And maybe I don't want to be up to my neck in nappies and worrying about school uniforms. Yeah - maybe, just maybe, I don't want to be a mum.
Bernie


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## Yamoona (Nov 7, 2005)

I have these thoughts sometimes as well, especially when I have to get up early to walk the dog before work (I only have to do this twice a week). I think to myself how rubbish I am without sleep and how would I ever cope if I had a baby. I HATE getting up early and you literally have to shove me out of the bed. This very thought woke me up around 3am this morning so it is strange you have too been having similar thoughts.

We are thinking of trying one IUI with DS but I have to admit that more days than not I am in no hurry to try and save the money to do it. And I am not getting any younger. Strange isn't it. I wonder if the pressures of society and the constant rejection we suffer makes us feel that we SHOULD be miserable without children instead of actually feeling OK about it! I know one lady that tried for years before giving up and know says she is glad she didn't have any.

xx


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## Twigs (Aug 15, 2006)

I to have these thoughts all the time, im 40 next and i find the older i get the more i feel this way!!  I also read childfree and loving it by Nicki Defargo which made me feel this way even more so, I would recommend this book to anyone trying to come to terms with a childfree life its a real eye opener.  
Earlier this year we went on holiday with friends and their 2 kids 11 & 9 and my friend (their mum) spent half the holiday in tears due to their behaviour getting her down and i found myself thinking thank god thats not me and i actually felt lucky for once to be free and be able to do my own thing without these pressures!!!    So there is deffinately a plus side to not having kids ........ altho if a friend or relative announced a pregnancy I would be right back down there gutted heartbroken etc etc .....................  wierd!!!!!  This infertility thing is a very strange mix of emotions to deal with!!!!!


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## emmag (Mar 11, 2007)

I'm really glad to read all these posts! This forum is brilliant for making me feel I'm not alone.

For me, wanting a baby is very physical and primal, on a logical level, in many ways I don't want any either! (especially, as a few people have said, not getting any younger, etc)

One of my cats has a HUGE appetite, and some days, she can get quite noisy about it several hours before her next meal and occasionally, it drives me _nuts_. And she is a cat. From what I understand, children can be really whinny, and you can't just go out and leave them in the house on their own, can you!


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## Twigs (Aug 15, 2006)

Hi Emmag

I had to chuckle to myself when u mentioned the cat, we have a very old cat who has hyperthyroidism which means she is constantly hungry and she is the same always round ya feet meowing rather loudly she drives us absolutely bonkers at times and we often find ourselves saying how on earth we would cope with kids!!!!!


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## Toni J (Jul 2, 2007)

Hi Ladies.
I know what you mean about these thoughts.Although its hard realising I will never be a mum I do still have similar thoughts,like in a supermarket etc whena child is screaming its  head off.That noise just grates on me.Also when Im up and down during the evening letting my cat out ,than the other one wants  to go out ,then they want to come back in.Me and DH are like.For Goodness Sake We just Want To Relax.

We are both 39 and  sometimes I think we are quite old to be starting with all the nappy business and sleepless nights.(I so need my sleep)

Although we would have been over the moon if the pregnancy had continued I do still wonder after 18 years of being the two of us just how we would have coped and the incredible change it would have had on our lives.


Love Toni xxx


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## Myownangel (Aug 24, 2005)

So it seems I'm not alone. It is odd though - because I have wanted to get preggers for so long, that I'm having to 'undo' that mindset, so to speak. 
Bernie x


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## helen273 (Jan 26, 2006)

Hi Bernie

thanks for your PM a couple of days ago, I have been thinking about what to say in my reply.. 

I have to admit, I love the thought of being pregnant, preparing for a baby (cute clothes etc) and having a baby and being a stay at home mum for a few years. But when I see some of my friends older kids (it seems to happen after age 7) who are rude, spoilt and just completely awful I think I would hate them once they got to that stage. And it just gets worse until they leave home. I know I must have driven my parents mad! 

So, yes you are completely normal to think like this. I hope in another 10 to 15 years time being childless will be thought of as completely normal, just like being single at 40 is considered normal now, unlike 10 to 15 yrs ago!!

Helen xx


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## Myownangel (Aug 24, 2005)

Yeah I agree. I like the baby bit - all cute and cuddly. But they do grow into rude and demanding kids/teens. Some turn out really well though. We have friends who have just adorable children. The older boy is about 8 and honestly he is such a pleasure to be with. (That's when I get sad because I think that sometimes children can be a real credit to the parents and lovely human beings). I think I've come full circle now - I do want them - or do I? Ugghh I just don't know.
Bernie x


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## Ann_P (Aug 24, 2007)

*I know what you all mean. I have to deal with other peoples kids a lot of the time at work and whilst some are adorable, others aren't & I often think "I hope I don't get one like that!".
I have to say though, in my opinion 9 times out of 10 the children are a reflection of the parents. Usually its both extremes that bring out the worst behaved children:- the OVER-doting parents, and those who completely ignore their offspring.
Of course we'd all like to think ours would be perfect, but what if they had ADD or were just naturally boisterous or were ill or disabled in some way?
I also sometimes think I'm lucky not to worry about these things......but then again, I come from a long long line of women who had children....am I to be the dead end?
I still want to do it no matter what it brings, but in the meantime, lets enjoy being child-free, we might as well!

Bernie, whats the betting you fall pregnant now, just as you are coming to terms with not having children! That would be ironic!

Ann*


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## flipper (Jul 7, 2004)

What an interesting thread. I've been having similar thoughts for some time and the older I get (I'm now 40) the more frequent the thoughts are becoming. Whilst on one level I still battle with it, intellectually I know  that, if I'm honest, I've pretty much gone off the whole thing. 

In fact I have to confess that I like my life just as it is and I find any prolonged exposure to child related stuff both alien and, yes, boring.  Really seriously dull.  It never used to be the case, I used to lap it all up in eager expectation of joining the club, now I find the subject about as interesting as the physics of muck spreading.  And I would never, ever have thought it possible.

I think there is a lot in what you say Yamoona, there is a general expectation that you simply can't be fulfilled without having kids and this manifests itself in all sorts of ways and it’s very hard to break through.

flipper


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## emmag (Mar 11, 2007)

Not to throw a spanner in the works, but sometimes I wonder if the feelings I have sometimes of "well maybe I don't want them anyway" are logical, or simply a coping strategy.


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## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

Hi girls,

I could really relate to your posts, and their contradicting emotions, especially your Emma  

DH and I applied for adoption back in February, having discovered that (round here at least) nothing was liekly to happen for at least a year. We didn't really feel ready, but wanted to get in the system as it takes so long.

Since then I have been like an emotional pendulum! We are just beginning to enjoy our life again after all the tx and heartache, and every so often I get waves of recognising that we have a nice life, and can still have an enjoyable life without children. this usually triggers me into a bit of a crisis about the adoption, thinking ....should we be doing it Then I go into another crisis of dark and horrible thoughts at the idea of having to adjust all over again to not having any children in my future.

Then I think...well if the thought of not adopting is making me feel like this, than surely it means deep down I really DO want to adopt!!! Its SOOO confusing!

When I am around my cousins little boys i have such crazy mixed emotions. I see how much their dad adores them, and how much they look like their parents, and feel so much pain that I will never see that in my own childs face. Than when i see the awful toddler tantrums I feel relief that they are not mine to handle! Then I worry about if we adopt, how I would feel about dealing with a little tantrum-monster that was not my birth child, and not yet had time to build up enough trust. 

Also, like you Flipper, I can see that a lot of child related stuff seems deeply boring and tedious! but than I wonder whether thats just because they are not my own, and if I did have my own, whether it wouldn't all be much more meaningful.

Also, when the IF struck I had what i can only descrribe as an serious identity crisis becuase I had always seen my future as motherhood and nothing else. Now I have finished my degree I desperately need to have the foundations of an interesting line of work in place for me, so that I never again feel that I have been completely erased, like I did when the IF struck. This is very hard to get my head around when trying to plan for adoption as well. Sometimes...often... I would like the freedom of just being able to plan for MY future, for the first time ever.

But on top of that, or underneath all that, the recurring feeling that haunts me is the feeling I get when I am brave enough to hold my cousins 1 year old baby in my arms. There seems to be nothing else that fills that gap, its a unique feeling, a deep satisfaction...and with that brings pain at all that has happened, and longing for the future. i have a longing for that feeling of belonging, and unconditional love, and the need to nurture that goes very deep..almost a profoundly biological thing.

Sometimes, I wonder if my desire to press on with my life as it is (without children) is a desire to protect myself from more uncertainty, more pain.

I see my future stretching before me like 'Sliding Doors'....one version of me does my M.A and pursues my dream career and is fulfilled and stimulated intellectually and creatively. But may always be unfulfilled in the need to nurture and parent.

The other version of me is an adoptive mum, hopefully profoundly happy in my ability to care for and nurture and protect and provide a caring home for a child. But still remaining frustrated in the need to fulfil other aspects of me which my degree opened up but remain as yet unexplored. 

Sorry to waffle on and on and on!!! This stuff has been brewing in me for many many months now and I guess needed an outlet and Bernie's question really pressed a button!
I hope some one out there may understand what I'm getting at, as this quandry and confusion goes very deep, and I wonder if it can ever be resolved.

Bernie, hunny, sorry to hijack!

XXX


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## Ann_P (Aug 24, 2007)

*Hi all,

Ermey, I know how you feel, I was in floods reading your post, I too may be considering adoption at some point as I know my chances of conceiving at 44 years old are so slim. I have had the same feelings of wondering could I love 'someone else's' offspring as if they were my own, especially when they're having the compulsory tantrum. I would have to tell them the truth of who they are from the beginning, I could not live a lie and my OH wonders if he will be able to take it when they are old enough to use "you're not my real dad, you cant tell me what to do!" as they doubtless will at some point.

It is a hard decision. But I think adoption is a very noble thing to do. You will have rescued a soul from a life of instition. You will not have the guilt of the thought that you intentionally brought a soul into this world and now you owe them a perfect life but the world isn't like that! You will do the best you can, knowing that it is better than their fate would have been otherwise. (I know someone else would have adopted them, but the same would apply to them). Your adoptive child might not look like you, but will grow like you. He/She will pick up your mannerisms, your morals, your beliefs, your accent, everything about you!
And one day they will probably thank you. No job you can do will reward you more than that.

I went for my pre-op chat with a nurse (Laparoscopy & hysteroscopy 8th October) and she told me she herself had just adopted an 18 month old little girl. She said adoption is fantastic. Best thing she's ever done! I told her I thought there weren't enough babies to be adopted & she said that is not the case at all.

Like you I would love a child of my own, I can't help that basic instinct, but I have promised myself/god?/the powers that be that if I am blessed with my own child, I will also adopt a child anyway, to say thank you.

Good luck Ermie, I'm sure you will be a fantastic mother if thats what you choose. 

Ann*


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## yanni (May 9, 2005)

This message is for twigs, can you tell me where you got your book 'childfree and loving it' by Nicki defargo sounds interesting.

many thanks Jackie

have been reading the messages and although it's early days for me on giving up my dream of 17 years, I can see how livs are up turned and especially for us older ones (early 40's) tiredness does seem to be a big issue!

All I can say is onwards and upwards 
Fertility Friends is great and It's helps me get through each day.


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## Liliaicha (Feb 22, 2004)

Hi girls

This thread has really struck a chord with me. I have battled for the last couple of years thinking to myself 'do I REALLY want to have a child?' I have not discussed this really with anyone much although I have mentioned it on occasion to my counsellor, but it's not something that I like to dwell on with her as she is supposed to be my IVF counsellor so I suppose I don't feel that it's the right place to discuss it.

I have also mentioned it to my DP, the 'do we really want to be parents etc', 'think how it will impact on our lives now that we are both heading for our 40s' but he just doesn't see it and won't really discuss it, and I suppose that at the end of the day having a child would impact on my life far more than his and his way of dealing with it is by saying "whatever will be will be, and we can't change it."

Having just had my 6th failed tx (3xIVF and 3xICSI) I'm feeling pretty raw about the whole thing. I will probably read my 'Childfree and Loving It' book again as this helps me to get myself into the 'childfree' mindset again. (Yanni you can get it on Amazon)

But the problem seems to be that even if *I* believe that I can have a fulfilled life without children, the rest of society doesn't. We live in such a child/family centered world. I feel pitied, put down, and almost a second class citizen because I don't have kids. It just seems to be a case of "What? you don't have kids? why not?"

My DP and I have a great life with just the two of us, we love to travel, sail and dive -not particlularly child friendly pastimes, and the thought of giving that all up, or only being able to go on holiday in school holidays fills me with dread - maybe I don't want to give it all up after all? Is it just that I want it more because I can't have it?

BUT on the other side of the coin, as I have mentioned in other posts my SIL is now 5 months pregnant, and just thinking about her makes me cry. I can't forgive her and my brother for getting pregnant within the first month of trying it just all seems so unfair. I have refused to see her since I found out about the pregnancy and have only seen my brother once, during wich time I didn't mention my SIL at all as I knew I would get upset. As I was leaving his house and saying good bye I managed to ask him how she was doing and promptly burst into tears and cried all the way home.

All these conflicting emotions can't be good for me. How can I go from thinking "I'm happy as we are" to "I want a child more than anything" in such a short spcae of time. It's tearing me apart.

L x


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## flipper (Jul 7, 2004)

My goodness L, it's hardly surprising you're feeling raw, I'm so sorry your last transfer didn't work out.

Reading your post has stirred up very real memories for me as I can remember asking DH how is it possible that I can have two such conflicting emotions: desperately wanting a child, but loathing IVF to the point of phobia and refusing to have anything more to do with the process and ensuring said child could not happen.

It was driving me crazy.  Eventually the only way I could reconcile it was thinking that emotions are emotions, you feel and think them and if they conflict - so what, they conflict but they're still valid. 

We are complex intelligent beings capable of millions of thoughts and emotions and its hardly surprising from time to time they conflict.  So instead of beating myself up over it, I allowed them equal space in my life and as stupid as this might sound, I felt instantly more comfortable.

So I went about enjoying my life and at the same time being devastated as countless cousins and friends seem to endlessly announce their good news.

You're right about society and it's expectations and that doesn't make this process easier with a general assumption that you naturally progress from failed transfers to adoption and failing that, you're expected to have a slightly bizarre child-substitute relationship with a pet - that one always really irritates me.

The one thing I can say is that I used to feel pitied for not having kids. Now when people ask the inevitable question I answer loud and proud, No we don't have kids it didn't work out for us but we have a great sex life, exotic holidays and a wonderful life together. Watch the pity evaporate.

I wish you luck and hope you'll find some peace in the coming days/weeks.

flipper


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## TLZ (Feb 27, 2007)

Hi Everyone,

Me too !! I'm so glad this thread started because I have been having all of these feelings too and I don't know what to do with them - total confusion!

My head is spinning at the moment because we feel we are on the edge of a cliff about to jump into the unknown ..... do we start IVF and that whole rollercoaster ? .... Do we send in our application for adoption ? ...... or do we do neither and stay happy as a family of 2 (well, 3 if you consider our doggy!!)

I agree with you Liliaicha, do I only want it because I can't have it ? How do you ever know ? I, for one, have seemed to lose sight of what I _actually_ want ....

The thing is by the time you've got the child, it's too darn late to say actually I was wrong ..... aagghh!

I also feel that if we turned round now and said to all our friends/family who know our situation that we'd positively decided to NOT have children, would they even believe it - probably not. And I can't stand the pity, more than anything I can't stand that.

I think it's just fab that we are able to talk about these feeling here, safely and without judgement - it really helps me anyway - thanks girls xxx

TLZ x


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## Yamoona (Nov 7, 2005)

On this same note did anyone see 'Supernanny' last night. Probably a lot of you don't watch this sort of programme and nor do I usually but last nights had me glued. It featured a couple who had a lot of fertility treatment before finally getting pregnant with twins. 2 years later they feel pregnant naturally and again it was twins. They went from thinking they would never have children to having four under the age of 5!!!

They were not coping and here is the interesting point, the reason they weren't coping was due to them keeping their children at the baby stage. For eg the five year olds still went to bed in nappies and all four had a baby bottle before bed and the youngest were still being spoon fed. This couple both had degrees and were intelligent people yet it felt like because they had gone through so much they wanted them to stay babies. It was a big reminder to them that the romanticism of motherhood is unrealistic as you are there to bring them up (it is after all just another job) not hold onto what you wanted for so long. 
The other area that was effected was their relationship, they were on the verge on splitting up as they no-longer had anytime together as the children took up so much of it. You could tell that they often think why did we want this so much. In the end they allowed the children to act their age and it was obvious they were sad about this but also relieved about life being a little easier.

So emotions are all over the place, damned if you do and damned if you don't. Especially when hormones from the treatment are affecting your judgement. For now I am happy to work on my marriage and feel lucky that I have a husband I love and can spend time with. Remember how we all at one stage thought we would never find love and happiness and how sad that made us feel. Well we have found it and we get to keep it how it should be because we have the time. Maybe later we will try donor or adoption, maybe not. For the first time in years I feel young after constantly being told I am old (in fertility years). Now I can be 36 and not feel like my life is going to end if my eggs dry up. After all if I live to 80 I haven't even got half way yet and there is still so much to do.

Have a good weekend guys
xx


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## Myownangel (Aug 24, 2005)

Hi everyone! I'm glad that my post has sparked off quite a debate. It seems I'm not alone in these conflicting emottions. As human beings we have a lot of 'baggage' shoved onto us from society and we have to somehow unpack it all - and see what we really want to keep.

Following what Liliacha said  "even if I believe that I can have a fulfilled life without children, the rest of society doesn't. We live in such a child/family centered world. I feel pitied, put down, and almost a second class citizen because I don't have kids", I would like to raise the subject of 'mother and baby' parking spaces outside supermarkets. It is my personal act of rebellion to ALWAYS park in one of those if possible. I will not be penalised for my lack of breeding prowess. I'm just waiting for someone to challenge me - I think the ensuing row willbe quite cathartic (for me  )
Bernie xxx


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## Yamoona (Nov 7, 2005)

I used to get annoyed about mother and baby parking spaces until a childless friend pointed out that her car had been damaged a lot my mums struggling to get her baby/child strapped safely into the back of the car without the car door banging into the car next to it if parked in a normal space. This is why they have these bigger spaces. I now park in the normal ones and leave the big ones so no-more cars can get damaged (we hope).


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## emmag (Mar 11, 2007)

Myownangel said:


> Hi everyone! I'm glad that my post has sparked off quite a debate. It seems I'm not alone in these conflicting emottions. As human beings we have a lot of 'baggage' shoved onto us from society and we have to somehow unpack it all - and see what we really want to keep.
> 
> Following what Liliacha said "even if I believe that I can have a fulfilled life without children, the rest of society doesn't. We live in such a child/family centered world. I feel pitied, put down, and almost a second class citizen because I don't have kids", I would like to raise the subject of 'mother and baby' parking spaces outside supermarkets. It is my personal act of rebellion to ALWAYS park in one of those if possible. I will not be penalised for my lack of breeding prowess. I'm just waiting for someone to challenge me - I think the ensuing row willbe quite cathartic (for me )
> Bernie xxx


Man, you're brave. DH always parks in those spaces as an act of rebellion and I hate it. I _dread _ the day someone challenges him. He'll be yelling across the car park and I'll probably be crying on the floor.

_Edit: If wide spaces for parents who need the room to get their kids into a seat without bashing someone else's car are needed, why do they have to be even closer to the supermarket than the disabled spaces? Surely they could be anywhere in the car park and still fulfill this requirement? I have to say I think the reasoning is purely financial. The supermarkets reason that, on average, Mrs Parent will spend more in the store than any other customer, so it's her they most want to tempt in._

On a more upbeat note though, popped into IKEA yesterday - a Sunday afternoon - MAN ALIVE!!!!! It's a genuinely useful place to go if you want a dose of "whatever made us think having kids might be a nice idea". In fact, it sparked us off talking about the whole vasectomy issue again. I'm begining to think it might be time to do that. Although I can't imagine what the GP will say when we rock up to ask about it.


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## Yamoona (Nov 7, 2005)

blimey, don't think I want to meet either of you in a car park!!


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## emmag (Mar 11, 2007)

You probably wouldn't see me - when I'm out with DH and he parks in "those" spaces, I run off into wherever we're going with a blanket over my head, like celebrity with a fresh nose job.


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## Myownangel (Aug 24, 2005)

I'm a pussycat really   But I have my 'crusades' I suppose. And parking in mums and baby parking spaces is one of them.

I know what you mean about Ikea - you know that pit of coloured balls in the children's area, well dh calls it the 'plague pit'. He reckons that it is full of germs from the various deposits of snot and dribble from all those kids and that if you want to boost a kid's immunity you should give it half an hour in there (!)

Well, I'm off to the shops to do a bit of 'smug mum' bothering.... la la la (singing a happy tune...)

Bernie x


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## Dydie (Feb 11, 2005)

Hi Everyone

I have not posted for a long time but do pop in to see what your all up to from time to time..
I have enjoyed reading this thread and it brought back the memories of those days when I was feeling all these mixed emotions....

I just thought I would let you know, that for me, those feelings of "do i really want to be a mum anyway" turned out to be the first real sign of moving on and finally accepting, things have got better with time and nowadays I don't really have those painful emotions anymore.

I think some of the reason why it gets easier with age is because our friends and families kids are all growing up and you don't get burdened with the news of someone close to you getting pg so often and the young babies in the friends and family circle are all growing up to be horrid little children who don't seem so cute anymore.

Just thought I would let you know that these feelings might be the first signs of acceptance and things do get easier.

lots of love to you all going through this journey.
Dydie xx


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## lucysmith (Oct 12, 2004)

Hey guys, I just wanted to add to this. I haven't been on this site for around eight months I just realised. I have pretty much come to terms with the whole childless thing. It's taken about four years though! But I can honestly say that I have been through the black tunnel etc. and now don't have any crying or anything. I am truly enjoying my life for what it is and being happy for what I've got. Whoever we are we are all blessed in some way by other stuff. I just want to share this with you all to reassure those that may be struggling and those that have accepted what life has thrown at them.


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## emmag (Mar 11, 2007)

lucysmith said:


> Hey guys, I just wanted to add to this. I haven't been on this site for around eight months I just realised. I have pretty much come to terms with the whole childless thing. It's taken about four years though! But I can honestly say that I have been through the black tunnel etc. and now don't have any crying or anything. I am truly enjoying my life for what it is and being happy for what I've got. Whoever we are we are all blessed in some way by other stuff. I just want to share this with you all to reassure those that may be struggling and those that have accepted what life has thrown at them.


Thank you so much for that! You really don't get to hear stories like yours and it's so important! Learning that there are people like me and that they are ok has been massive for me. Thank you. x


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## Toni J (Jul 2, 2007)

What lovely words  Lucysmith.

I guess when we have all been through the traumas of IVF etc and then still not achieved a baby at the end  its so easy to focus on we dont have and not what we do have.

Good for you girl!!!! I think Im getting there slowly but Im sure it will take time.

Love Toni xxx


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