# At a crossroads with IVF, DE, adoption - feeling v overwhelmed



## nicpic (Dec 17, 2010)

Hi All,

I feel suddenly overwhelmed by my situation. We failed our 3rd IVF cycle in Dec 10 and it hit me really hard. I gave up my job last year after the second cycle failed to reduce the stress, get fit and focus on our treatment. When the 3rd cycle failed i knew it would knock  me for six but i picked myself up and focussed on next steps - positive mental attitude and all that. Our decision has been to move to the ARGC and we have had our first consultation in Feb. Just prior to that i had an AMH test at my old clinic which came back very low and our previous clinic suggested DE. However the ARGC suggested we try another cycle. Overwhelmed by the whole situation i've taken a few months out and booked a holiday however now i just feel exhausted by the events of the last few years and the decisions that lay ahead and just feel like giving up on it. I've done my best for years not to look back but only look fwd but suddenly i feel i don't know the best thing to do and don't have any energy left. I am worried if we have another cycle and it doesn't work how i will cope but worried if we don't that i will regret it. I have started to resent the cost although in reality if we were successful i wouldn't care but as i feel so negative about my chances now i feel like its just throwing money away. The ARGC say that as i don't really know what the issue is that DE may not work either so i feel really i have no option but to go ahead with another cycle if i want any chance at this. And then i also feel if i go for more fertility then it would set us back considerably with adoption as you do have to be clear for 6 months at least. 
All in all ifeel completely confused . I felt positive about trying again and then my DH and i agreed we would look into adoption later if it didn't work. But in reality i feel scared of all options at the moment - and this is 3 cycles in!I think i thought i was more resilient than i am. Ultimately i know only we can decide what to  do and what is right for us but I just feel the enormity of these decisions is overwhelming. 
Anyone else out there feeling like this
Nic xx


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## elia74 (Apr 16, 2009)

Hi Nicpic,


I couldn't read and run because your story sounds so similar to mine. I too have had 2 natural BFPs followed by miscarriages 3.5 years ago. Then, after a long series of treatments (3 IUIs and 5 IVFs), and not a single BFP in sight, we decided to go to the ARGC for our last try . I too gave up a very good job to relax and concentrate on my treatment. I knew that my AMH was low and 3 clinics had advised us to go for DE. But we went ahead with one last treatment at the ARGC. It was very intense and unfortunately, despite having the highest dose of stimulation, my cycle at the ARGC was my worst! Only 2 eggs retrieved and one embryo transferred. In hindsight, I don't think it was worth the daily bloods and intense monitoring. But I would have tried anything at that point and I wanted to rule out any immune issues which other clinics did not believe in. 


Did you think about doing a natural IVF or soft stimulation cycle? Create in London are great believers of these. I had a couple of natural /low stimulation IVF cycles abroad and the quality of my eggs was much better than it was with the aggressive protocol at the ARGC. None of those cycles resulted in a BFP though but I produced the same number of eggs..The other thing that you may want to consider doing is a hysteroscopy. This can indicate whether or not you can carry a pregnancy to term and will be useful either way (for OE or DE IVF).  


We are now moving to donor egg IVF. It's the beginning of a new road but we feel very excited at the prospect of significantly increasing our chances to have a baby (70% success rate we are told...).


It is not an easy decision. It took me 6 month to accept the idea of donor egg IVF. And another 6 months to do my research on clinics, countries, etc..


Good luck with your decision. Big hug. 


Elia xx


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## nicpic (Dec 17, 2010)

Thanks Elia. Really appreciate you taking the time to respond. I feel like I am going ever so slightly mad!! Am trying to tell myself its a good thing to have options - some people have none but am going through a bad patch i think. I am not against the DE route although my DH and i haven't really discussed it in detail - it wasn't something we had even thought about previously so probably would take us some time to get our heads around it but ultimately we want to be parents and are open minded about our route. I believe the ARGC do a hysteroscopy don't they although are you suggesting have one done independantly to assess our chances? Its strange - after entrusting myself to our local clinic for 3 cycles i suddenly feel none the wiser and back to square 1. Maybe that's why i feel exhausted and like taking a path with increased chances like DE or adoption. 
Interesting what you say about the aggressive treatment at the ARGC. I think that is what is worrying me- i assumed that our issue might be immune or something like that and this clinic was the top one but i now feel really unsure and if i'm going to have further treatment maybe it makes more sense for the next one to have a better chance of success. 

What do you mean by natural IVF or soft stim? I have had chlomid then we were moved straight to IVF  - our consultant at the old clinic said with my age (36 at that time) and previous history that was the better option but now looking back when its not worked who knows. 
I wish you every success on the donor route. Am glad you are excited - that's how i usually feel once i have set my mind but therein lies the issue right now! Are there other tests recommended before you go the DE route and how did you research that?
Nic xx


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## elia74 (Apr 16, 2009)

Hi Nicpic,

Sorry I didn't mean to cause more confusion. But I wish someone had told me a few things before we embarked on our treatment at ARGC. I definitely think that they are very good when it comes to immune treatment and close monitoring. But in my case I am a poor responder to stimulation and felt that I was being pumped with lots of drugs and subjected to painful daily blood tests unnecessarily.i also think that they kept me on stimulation for far too long so the very few eggs that I did have were overcooked...my personal experience of course and I think each case is different. 

I know that they do in-depth investigation though, which in my case helped me determine that the problem was coming from the quality of my eggs. I did a hysteroscopy there and that was fine. I also did the full Chicago tests and results were all clear.  DH and I also did a karyotype test at our previous clinic. These are the tests you need for DE IVF too. 

Overall, I think it is important to have all those tests done whether at ARGC or elsewhere. Then it is a personal decision on whether you want to do a cycle with them.  

Some clinics are now trying to use less or no drugs to develop fewer eggs with better quality (particularly for poor responders). With soft stimulation, you do injections at a lower dose and for a shorter period of time. With natural IVF, you don't take any stimulation drugs, the doctor monitors your regular cycle through  scans and you're given cetrotide to stop you from ovulating. Then, it's a normal IVF process with egg collection, and embryo transfer.

We did our research by visiting 5 different clinics and talking to doctors who use different approaches. Did a lot of reading on the internet too. In the end, no matter how good doctors are, and how advanced their techniques,  they are only human beings and they can only try.

It takes time to process all the information and with DE you can take a few more months to do that without it affecting your chances of success.

I hope this gives you some answers.  

E xx


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## nicpic (Dec 17, 2010)

No don't worry - i couldn't get more confused anyway!! Its really useful to hear how others have decided on other routes. My response seems to have deteroriated from my 1st IVF to date. For my first i got 11 eggs and 7 fertilised and 2 reached blastocyst so whilst i got a BFN i felt reasonably positive . Then on my second and 3rd around 6 with most fertilising each time but no blastocysts. Its only really now with the AMH result too that i think not sure flogging it is the right answer! I had a quick look on line at create at the natural route after your post. Definitely seems more inviting although i still have concerns around what's actually wrong with my m/c and chem pregnancy history and that we still haven't had a diagnosis on that front. I think i will pursue the immune and hysterscopy tests at least as you say and then see how i feel or if they shed any further light on anything. I'm sort of reserving judgement on whether i will actually do the cycle or not at this stage. Had a long chat with DH last night and he said lets do the ARGC one and then assess it all but then said if you don't feel you can face it let's not do it - so back to square 1 then! You never envisage when you embark on starting a family that you will have to make these types of enormous decisions do you?!  
Thanks for the info and advice
Nic xx


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## Tinkerbel (Mar 21, 2010)

Hi Nicpic, 

I just wanted to say we are in a similar position as yourself and I am totally confused as what to so next as well.  My signature is not quite up to date (need to get it sorted) but I understand what you mean about it all be so overwhelming.  My DH and I are starting to think more seriously about DE and adoption and I have had a long conversation with someone at the Doner conception network that was very informative.  I have never conceived naturally and have endo and immune issues.  I also don't responed very well but are being told to keep trying for now. However, like you I feel completely exhausted and have lost my fight for it which is so unlike me.  Each failure/mc takes abit more of you with it and its even harder to pick yourself up from it.  There are days when I just want my old life (pre-trying for a baby) back which might sound stupid.  I am literally surrounded by it as well which makes it so painful and as a result see know one as can't cope with happy focused fulfilled family and friends.  

In ref to the ARGC, it is serioulsy grulling I agree with Elia. but if you don't know what the state of play is in terms of immunes it is worth finding out.  I guess if you have conceived naturally before immunes could be the problem, but until its checked out you won't know, so it migh be worth considering.  

Anywya, I just wanted to let you know there is someone else out there who knows how you are feeling and it is pants   , but I am getting to the stage now that I think something has just got to change whatever it might be as life just can't go on feeling like this.

Hi Elia- hope it all goes well for you.

Love Tinks


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## harrysmum19 (Feb 27, 2011)

Hi there,
my situation is different to yours, but ultimately we are in the same boat as we are both trying to conceive!
I didn't want to read and run, so here is my story (briefly) We have been ttc for 6 years, me having mild endometriosis and DH having low sperm morphology and motility. Our first ICSI was successful but sadly our little boy Harry passed away in January at 12 weeks old from a congenital heart defect. We are devastated. My husband and I have made an agreement that if Harry's genetic tests come back clear, i.e his condition was not caused by a faulty gene from either of us and it was just 'one of those things' then we will have one more shot at IVF, and if that doesnt work we will proceed with adoption. If harry's tests reveal that one of us has a faulty gene, then we will try donor sperm or embryo adoption and then move onto adoption if that fails.
I think to keep you sane, you do need a plan b. I feel a bit more relaxed knowing that there are other options out there, and you have to think that although you are desperate for a biological child, how far do you go? when do you say enough is enough? I hope that helps!
good luck with your journey, whichever route you decide to take.
Lisa, Harry's mummy


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## nicpic (Dec 17, 2010)

All your posts have helped enormously. Whilst I don't want anyone to feel as i am, the fact that there are others feeling the same does help (if you know what i mean!).I have a lot of supportive friends and family but the fact is none of them have been through this at least not to this degree so are running out of things to say. All of what you all said resonated with me completely.

Tinkerbel - i think that really made sense what you said. Each failure/mc takes a bit more of you with it. I had never really thought about it like that but that is exactly how i feel. I guess i'm scared of what will be left if i carry on and whilst DH and i do appear to have grown stronger through this I don't want to be complacent about that. At the end of the day we have been married 4 years in June and our troubles have been throughout our marriage to date which makes me really sad. I too wish i could go back to how things were . I remember when we first met and we used to sit there discussing names, now we never mention it at all. Maybe we are both at a stage where we need to take control of it all hence the looking at wider options. I've sort of let it all happen to me till now and now I want to run my own life!! I agree the immunes are a must really as otherwise we could be in same position with DE too. What is the DE conception network? Maybe i need to start researching the DE side of things. 

Winsome - i feel the same, also a mathmatical brain and so the facts and figures need to corrolate! And they don't- i find that really hard. I did ask what my chances were with ARGC and as they don't test AMH he sort of avoided the question and said it won't be straightfwd with my history but still felt it was too soon for DE and that we did have a chance looking at my previous responses. He also pointed out as you guys have said that we don't know why it has not worked before so more testing needed before we go any route now really. Makes sense. I also have that feeling on adoption which i think is why i feel panicked as i do. Its such a long road and i feel we have already had a long journey!! Another few years feels too much but if that ends up my only option then i guess we will have to find the strength somehow.One of my main fears at the moment is regret. I want to make the right decision while i still have all these options.

Lisa - hi. Firstly am so very sorry for your loss. That is just devastating .  
The plan B is good advice and that is exactly where my head is at - how far do you go?.  We thought about going to an initial adoption meeting as last week my thoughts were if this one doesn't work that will be the route but the more i read the more i think DE would be ok. Whilst like everyone when i started out i never assumed i would not have my own biological child i think this process changes you and you have to start considering alternatives. One of my friends did say to me - if ultimately what you want is to be a parent then the rest is irrelevant really. She didn't say it quite that harshly but her point was valid!. She is looking at adoption herself.I wish you all the best with your journey.

Sending lots of   to you all !

Nic xx


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## Tinkerbel (Mar 21, 2010)

Hi Nicpic, 

Glad you might be feeling alittle better, although I know what you mean about not wanting other people to be going through it, but makes you feel better to know that there is someone who actually understands.

The Donor conception network is a charity that is run by people who have had children by the donor route, so also completely understand.  They offer support to people at all stages of it right the way through from those thinking about it to organising get togethers for mums and dads plus their little ones of those who have been through it all.  They run open days to talk about it all and help people work through whether it is the right option for them.  We are thinking of going to an open day.  I have been seeing a great cousellor who is helping a great deal and she says if you can get your head round the other options as being something you are comfortable with all be it not the way you might have chosen it, it can take the pressure of another cycle or trying natually.  

I agree with you about being scared of what will be left if you go through it all again and I completely completely understand...infact it is one of the things I hate so much about it all. I'm just not the person I used to be.  I wonder who that person was ..as I'm not her anymore.  Anyway, my counsellor says fear is one of the strongest emotions we feel and its what stops us moving forward. Regaining control of your life is so important.  I am trying to is simple ways that are nothing to do with the infertitlity, and each little thing helps.  

The ARGC wouldn't do my AMH as they said it wouldn't change their management. For some people they will still try if they think there is a chance with one egg, infact I was there recently and a lady had one egg and then ended up pregnant.  I know what you and Winsome mean about the maths though  !!  I sort of think, if there are still any eggs its like a game of stamina, mental strength and a massive wallet until you get a good embie that stays !! 


Winsome-I know what you mean about adoption.  I thought recently..right that is..I want to adopt and then when you look at how hard it is I just wanted to cry again!!  Its not like we are people who haven't already tried hard enough to be parents and waited long enough.  I'm sure we will all find the strength somehow, but it an be tough !

Hi Lisa- I was so terribly sorry to read of your and DH loss.    

As Nicpic said having plan b has always helped me along this journey.  I have my cry and then thing right whats next.  But it getting harder though. I hope you and DH get some good luck..you deserve it.

Love Tinks


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## harrysmum19 (Feb 27, 2011)

You ladies are just lovely. Let's hope we're all on here in a few months time announcing our BFP's!

love to you all

Lisa xxxx


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## nicpic (Dec 17, 2010)

I hope so too Lisa! Wouldn't that be amazing    Am so glad i posted, this chat has really helped. Tinks - i've been thinking about counselling alot recently and your post has decided me. I had some after the ectopic when i was just basically a blubbering mess. Some of it helped, other bits didn't as i guess is always the case . I actually stopped as after about 6 sessions my counsellor said "were you at a wedding last August" and i said i was and she said " that was my son's wedding!" so she was a friend's mum!Turned out she knew who i was from the off but only mentioned it as there was a party coming up and she would be there. Needless to say i stopped going (and didn't go to the party). It suddenly weirded me out! But i think at this stage that would massively help me make sense of my feelings and clarify my thoughts so i can think a bit more clearly. Did you organise yours privately or thru your GP or clinic? Think my GP would support it but i think i need someone specialist in all of this. 
Also thanks for the info on the DE charity. I've decided today that i am definitely going to use up some of my time now i'm off work doing some proactive research and that will be one of my research areas!!I think the open day sounds great - at least then you can make informed decisions on these things. 
Nic xx


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## Tinkerbel (Mar 21, 2010)

oooh ! I hope so to Lisa !  XX

Nic-  I don't blame you for not wanting to go to the counsellor who know's yr mum..I'd have felt the same way.  I had some early on via my Gp but she was a general counsellor so didn't know the ins and outs of infertitlity.  It was more 'tears and tissues'. 

I ended up contacting one through the Zita West clinic.  It is seriously expensive but I have found it so helpful.  She will email and calls to check I'm ok.  I'v even had emails at 2230 which I thought was quite something.  She has been fab as DH and I have just had a horrible IVF experiance that I won't bore you with, she is almost becoming someone who is 'managing us'  that sounds strange I know, but she gives advice of what to think about, where to go, how to handle people, etc its almost like someone there who understands it guiding us through.  I never have to explain anything and she knows the job inside out.  She is a nurse and a midwife (which oviously is not so handy for me !!!)  and calls herself a fertility nurse specialist.  She has seen us together which has helped and we keep in touch via email in between times.  I have very few people to talk to as my two brothers have just had their first babies (both managed it very easily and well after we had been trying) and DH sisters have just had 2 babies, so we don't see our siblings anymore as I can't cope with the baby stuff etc.  I have been blessed with lots of friends but there has been a rush on in the baby department in the last 2-3 years as anyone has got into their 30's and we are literally the only ones left now.  So, I am pretty lonely really.  Its a case of been lonely, but not be able to cope with happy families and baby talk so I just retract into myself and stay away which I think helps them as they no longer know what to say.

Anyway, I think see if your Gp can help with the counselling and get it organised, I'm sure it will help. You sound proactive and focused.  

Catch you all soon, 

Take care

Tinks X


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## nicpic (Dec 17, 2010)

Tinks - thanks for the info on counselling. That sounds amazing. When you start out on this its so overwhelming and then to be 4 years down the line with all these decisions it makes total sense to have someone like that to guide you through it all. I feel very much like i need to be managed and guided right now so i think that really makes sense. I just feel so out of my depth which feels horrible.  In hindsight i think that would have helped me much earlier . I feel slightly angry with myself at the moment that I don't feel i really questioned my clinic through 3 cycles enough.I feel like i've come out the other end none the wiser really and sort of feel like i didn't really do myself justice. By nature i'm an inquisitive (nosy!) person and come from a very analytical background but don't appear to have used those skills at all!!

I'm so sorry to hear that you are feeling lonely. Its so hard being surrounded by friends and family with young families. We are in a similar position and i tend to try and plaster a smile on then the tears flow later. It makes friendships very tough through something like this. I have also felt very alone recently even though my DH is amazing but that was my reason for coming on here - a cry for help really and luckily you all responded!!
In the short term have booked the counselling session i am owed from my last IVF cycle just to see if talking this all through helps me and then will take it from there but thanks for the info on your experiences. 

Take care  

Nic xx


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## ktt1 (Nov 4, 2008)

Hi
I saw the posts at the start of this thread and wanted to say I know how you feel. When we found out we'd need IVF we decided we'd give it 3 goes. Each time we've been told our chances are great, and each time we've been really lucky with plenty of good quality embryos, and each time it's failed except the once when I got a BFP but miscarried really early. We had our last frosties replaced at the beginning of May and last week had another BFN. Luckily I expected I'd need a few weeks off work, so have a sick note for another week. I just feel like giving up. I'm so fed up with it all, and can't face the world at the minute. My friends have all got young children and have drifted away, my family try to support us but don't really help, and my younger sister, who I'm really close to, has just got pregnant without even trying. My DH changed jobs to be able to support me more, but hated his new job, and he eventually gave up work so that he could be at home with me during the treatments last year. 
I just don't know what to do next. I feel like we've given up our lives for this and nothing has come of it. I'd like to think about donor eggs but like someone else said, it just seems like throwing money away. Maybe we'll see if we can adopt, but I worry about whether it's the right thing to do. 
I know I won't always feel this bad. I'm ok if I don't think about it, but I won't get anything sorted out if I don't face up to it. I thought this is a good way to at least have a think (and a cry, again), so I hope it's ok to join in with you guys.


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## harrysmum19 (Feb 27, 2011)

Hi Ktt1
I haven't posted on this site for ages, but am pleased I came back to visit and read your post. I feel so isolated at the moment too. All but one of my friends now have their much wanted babies, some are on their third since we started trying 6 years ago. We did have Harry, our miracle baby, but losing him was the most traumatic event i've ever faced. All my friends lives have gone back to normal and hubby and I are both here grieving for Harry, whilst in limbo waiting for genetic test results. We have been referred for ICSI again, but can't start any treatment until we get the test results back. We want to be parents again more than anything. I just dont feel I can face the world until I've got a reason to get up in the morning. I do work and went back 6 weeks after Harry died, but as a teacher, 5 days is just too much for me! I think when we go through the IVF again I will try to get a sick note so I can concentrate on just that. 
On the adoption side, I did ring our local agency, and a lovely social worker did say that as our ICSI had worked first time with Harry, in her opinion we would be mad not to try again. I think that was a turning point for me. We are lucky in that this time our treatment should be funded, we self funded last time. We also have a very generous aunt who is selling some diamond jewellery and giving us the cash!! 
I just want you to know you are not alone. Your dream will come true one day - we just have to wait a bit longer than the rest of the population - but it will be worth it!
love lisa xxx


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## ktt1 (Nov 4, 2008)

Hi
I realised after I'd posted that this was a really old thread and thought no-one would see it, so thanks for replying. I'm so sorry to hear about Harry. I can't imagine how hard that must be.  
I saw my GP yesterday and he's given me metformin, so at least it's something to try. We're going to take the risk of trying to conceive naturally, but there'll be a 1 in 4 risk of the baby having cystic fibrosis. I really don't know if it's the right thing to do. My brother had cf and died from it when he was 17 and I was 11. My parents had no idea that they were carriers of cf and had the most awful time, losing their second child at 3 days of age. At that point they tested my brother and found out he had cf. My mum said after that she just decided to keep going until she had some healthy children- which turned out to be me and my sister. When we first found out that me and Phil were carriers of cf we were devasted. Then we had the big ivf light shining at the end of the tunnel and everyone told us we had a great chance of it working, so I've given up the last 4 years of my life and now I'm wondering whether it was worth it. 
Anyway. What I meant to say was, we've been in limbo a few times. It's awful, and I know what you mean about not having a reason to get up in the morning. All I can say is that my DH has been amazing, and I'm so grateful that he's put up with me through all this and supported me the way he has, and we've just carried on getting up in the morning anyway. And each time I've been through this, I know I come out the other end and eventually, I do feel glad to be alive again- I'm glad my mum kept trying, and I'm glad I had my brother for the time I did. So I'll just take my chances and see what happens, and yes, we've been thinking about adoption too, but I don't quite feel ready to take that on yet. 
Anyway. 
Thanks again fro replying.
Lots of love 
Katherine


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## ktt1 (Nov 4, 2008)

Hi again Lisa
I meant to send you a hug, to keep you going  until the results come through.
Don't feel isolated. You are definitely not on your own, and I really hope it works out ok for you too
Katherine X


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## harrysmum19 (Feb 27, 2011)

Hi Katherine,
Thanks for your messages!
we are still in limbo waiting, but I've come to think that maybe its for a good reason 
I really hope you and your OH are succesful and you have a baby cf free - I think sometimes in this life, you just have to take a risk.
Keep us posted!
lots of love
Lisa xxxx


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## nicpic (Dec 17, 2010)

Hi Lisa and Katherine,
I've just returned from a holiday and was really pleased to see this thread being taken up again. I have spent a further 2 months deliberating on what the right thing to do is. In that time I've turned 39, had some counselling and a couple of holidays in the sun - and remain confused!! BUT,  I have come to the conclusion that I need to go with what feels right at this moment in time and for me I don't think I can face another IVF cycle at the moment so am planning to put my ARGC plans on hold for now and we have an intial adoption meeting next Tuesday. I feel excited and petrified all at the same time but have spoken to friends and family and feel quite positive about at least investigating it. I have to say about a year ago when my husband brought it up I couldn't even talk about it so this is progress! I keep coming back to the plain and simple fact that we want to be parents. I know that the challenges will be great and am not even sure we can do this but am definitely going to take a look even if the result is i know its not for us. I requested an information pack about 6 months ago from our local council and then left it. I gave it alot of thought on holiday and had decided to at least go to a meeting and then when we got back there was a letter from social services on our mat asking us whether we wanted to pursue the intial meeting following our inquiry so I have taken that as a sign to at least look into it further! We plan to continue to try naturally too but just leave the IVF for now. 
Katherine - I'm so sorry to hear that your recent cycle didn't work. We've also been at this for nearly 4 years (our entire marriage!) and its just so very tough. I feel exactly the same - i don't want to have my whole life on hold but equally if i don't take action it will just pass me by. Its alot of pressure to put on yourself. I gave up work just over a year ago to focus on this properly and still nothing. Like you i have an amazing DH and he keeps me going! I asked him recently how he copes with all of this and he just said - I take literally one step at a time and don't think further than that and he always assumes one day we will be parents. He also said if you think of the most simplistic way of thinking about something and then simplify it thats how i think! Unfortunately i analyse everything so maybe somewhere between us is the right way to think! I really wish you all the best and hope the natural route works for you and you have a healthy baby. I do agree with Lisa - sometimes you have to take risks although i know thats easy to say and i havent experienced CF.  
Hi again Lisa - once again so sorry for your loss. I cannot imagine how devastating this is for you.  I really hope your tests come back clear and you can get moving soon with your treatment. Would you be able to do part time so you don't have to do the full 5 days at work or is that not realistic. Or do they offer any sabbatical options of any sort? I come from the banking world and there are various options although i chose to just resign (after 20 years at it!)so i had no ties and could focus on the treatment . I've had one cycle in that time but its actually turned into a time of reflection which i think has helped me also. We were only able to do that as my husband got made redundant and so we got some cash to tide us over. Good on your Aunt selling her diamonds to raise some funds - how generous!! Does she have more she can sell so you can give up work completely?!! If all else fails definitely take some time out sick to relieve at leasts some of the stress. I hope they are being supportive considering what you have been through. Sending you lots of  
Nic xxx


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## ktt1 (Nov 4, 2008)

Hi Lisa and Nic
Nic - Me and my DH are the same. He takes things one step at a time and doesn't worry about anything and I race on ahead worrying about abolutely everything. I like Russell Brand and watched him being interviewed by Piers Morgan who asked him about whether he'd be able to behave himself now that he's married and he said that he only thinks about what he's got to do today, otherwise you end up trying to plan out and live your whole life in advance. It's easier said than done, but I like the idea.
And we have a holiday planned soon too. To be honest I just want to forget it all for now, but I'm sure it'll help to mull it over a bit without any deadline or need to make definite plans. After each cycle it does seem to get easier eventually. Sometimes it just takes a long time. 
I'm doubtful that trying naturally will work. I had a HSG and was told my tubes are blocked. It's not a good test, and I was offered a laparoscopy to check but didn't want to have it done. I was told I must have had an STD at some point. I know it's naive, but I have no idea how that happened unless I was unconscious or DH has forgotten to own up to something- but I really don't think that he has. Anyway the doctor who told me was pretty judgemental about it and made me feel awful. I thought I'd just rather not know for sure. 
Some friends of ours have just adopted after failed ivf. They said the same as you- that they just want to be parents. They also said that they found that they got over the ivf really quickly because they were told it was unlikely to work from the start. When it didn't work they just got on with the adoption process and seem to have taken it all in their stride. I really hope it goes well for you. I think that we will probably look at adoption, but I still get upset just thinking about it. I'm sure it will get easier. It's that thing about deciding that the ivf has finished which is hard, but to be honest I didn't really want to do it in the first place. I just thought I'd try it, but didn't think about it, and then it was like a conveyor belt that I needed to stay on. But I'm only thinking like that because it hasn't worked. If it did work, then it all would have been worth it. 
Lisa -I really hope the tests are ok and it works for you. You sound really positive which has to be a good thing.
I agree that it's a good idea to ask for sick leave if you think you need it. I worried about it at the start, but found that I am absolutely incapable of thinking straight while waiting for the test, then it takes another couple of weeks afterwards before I feel like I can cope with work. a couple of people at work questioned whether it was a valid reason to be off sick but as far as I'm concerned it is the most sensible thing to do and completely valid, and various GPs have always been happy to sign me off. Don't feel bad about it. 
I hope the waiting isn't too bad. Like you say, it gives you a chance to have a break from it all if nothing else.
I'd better go- I think DH is starting to feel left out. 
Hugs to you both   
Love Katherine


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## Lirac (Sep 18, 2008)

Hi Nic,
Just spotted your thread and wanted to let you know that there are lots of options open to you and it is probably wise to take time to consider what is best. You can see from my signature that I have known lots of negative cycles. It took me a year or so to get my head around DEIVF but can honestly say that it has been a brilliant experience. We came down to identifying what we really wanted, which was a healthy baby and, because of my age, it was then an easy decision. 

I wasn't sure about the comment about throwing money away on DE as the success rates are massively higher than straight IVF. This is why lots of clinics offer refund programmes over three attempts - the clinic we went to is partnered with our UK clinic and its success rate with DEIVF is 78%. This time around I had to have SET and was worried about the odds, but even this was 58% which I think is pretty good. Other tx, such as hysteroscopy, are a fraction of the price that UK clinics charge too. 

Adoption is a great way forward, but we didn't fit the criteria and so couldn't go ahead with that.

With my first DH, we also came through the journey which led us to accepting and moving on, so have known that too!

Hope I haven't confused you but just felt that I could identify with the choices that you are struggling with and wanted to share a positive outcome of one of them   

Lirac x


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## nicpic (Dec 17, 2010)

Hi Lirac,

Thanks for your post and congratulations on your pregnancy! 

I still feel DE is a possible option for us and sort of have it out there at the back of my mind (am trying to think more like a man these days and compartmentalise everything!).I agree like you that ultimately a healthy baby is what we want. My main concern at this stage is that we don't know the reason for our previous issues - ectopic and recurrent miscarriages and that's not to say that DE wouldn't work but i feel without knowing what the actual problem is that we couldn't really go down that route. That's how the ARGC saw it although my previous clinic seemed happy to do it but it seemed a bit not thought through in my view. It was sort of like - nothing else has worked so go with DE. And so i feel like I'd have a mountain to climb before i.e a cycle at ARGC to try and uncover any issues. I suppose the alternative is just try it and hope the quality and age of eggs solves any problems. As with all things related to fertility its these horrible unknowns that cause the majority of the stress. I wish you a very happy and healthy pregnancy. I may well be back on here asking you lots of questions about DE come next Tuesday!  

Katherine - hi, we sound very similar! I wonder sometimes if my DH considers the enormity of all of this and i catch glimpses which confirm he does -  he just doesn't share any negative thoughts, i assume trying to protect me and is super positive. I also saw that Russell Brand interview - he has a point although as you say its easier said at times. I do think this whole experience has completely changed me as an individual though and I am conditioning myself to think like that as much as i possibly can. It does help i find. I say alot of " we need to be thankful that we have each other and life's too short" and all that old rubbish! 
A holiday always helps i find. We had a week in Cyprus just DH and i at a lovely hotel and then a family holiday as my brother and his family are moving to Singapore so we had a week away to spend time together before he goes (have to say that has added to the whole stress of this but that's another story altogether!) Our plan had been to embark on a monitoring cycle at the ARGC this month after our holidays but i just felt this dark cloud looming and i have to say making the decision to delay that has lifted the pressure and like you we are trying to not impose any deadlines on ourselves right now. That certainly has upped the stress levels previously. Not helped by my lovely friends (who i know mean well )always asking me when my next treatment is.  
On the natural trying - some doctors are so unsympathetic. The important thing is where you are now. I don't think the root cause of all these issues is important or helpful to know. After all of my experiences I used to question if i did something to cause the ectopic or the miscarriages like have a glass of wine when i didn't know i was pregnant or whatever but it doesn't achieve anything so think you are right to leave it there. When we started IVF alot of friends asked why they thought we needed it as we had had several BFPs but it was on the advice of the clinic and we sort of fell into it a bit naively i think and i thought it would uncover the root cause of our issues which it never has so i sort of feel if i followed my personal view in the first place and stuck with natural maybe we would be ok now - who knows. Its very hard to make a decision as every fertility expert i've spoken to has a different opinion. I agree stopping the IVF is a really really hard decision once  you are on that conveyor belt but the way i am thinking currently is that its just on hold for now while we investigate adoption. If that route feels right when we get into it then naturally we may just not go back to IVF but I am not putting myself under pressure to make any final decisions right now and keep trying to tell myself that there are alternatives available we can pursue later if needed. 
Well, that's my view today. No doubt it will change tomorrow as is seems to be the case at the moment!! Lots of   and  to you all,
Nic xx


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## ktt1 (Nov 4, 2008)

Hi all
I didn't know that- Lirac are you talking about donor eggs? I don't want to think about it at all really, at the moment, but it's nice to know the success rate. I have a feeling that won't apply to me for some reason- cynical as I am. Anyway. I will ask at my next appt.
Nic- yes, we sound very alike. It's nice to know. where are you? I'm in Lincolnshire
Yes, I questioned everything that could have stopped it working, and still do when I want to give myself a hard time, but I've got deliberately forgetful. I didn't realise that compartmentalising things was what men do, but I did it a lot anyway, and do it more now. That plus a bit of denial from time to time! I'm sure it goes against everything that's supposed to be 'healthy' ways of dealing with things, but if it works for me and doesn't upset anyone it must be ok.
Friends asking - I know that too. One male friend asked when my next 'undercarriage' work was. He is a bit of a comedian, but I didn't appreciate it. I'd have hit him if he wasn't on the phone. Usually it's when there's a gap in the conversation and I know it's coming, and I think they think they should ask otherwise I'll think they don't care. I don't know how to tell them not to bother without seeming ungrateful. Anyway. I'm glad you feel like you've made the right decision about waiting a bit. It's nice when you feel the relief. It's funny that there's no way of knowing what's the right thing to do each time, it's only when I get to each point and try it and see. I suppose that is just dealing with one thing at a time, like wise old Russell said.
Next thing I've got to do is phone all my friends who know what's happened. There's only two or three but I've been putting it off for ages. Maybe I'll wait for the weekend...
Anyway good wishes and hugs 
 
Katherine


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## Lirac (Sep 18, 2008)

Hi Katharine - yes, donor eggs.


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