# Implantation Test following 4th BFN



## Moonshine

Hello Ladies, 

Hoping someone can help, I have just received the news that my 4th Transfer has failed   
and that they would like me to see a consultant to discuss reasons for implantation failure and also to run some tests. Whilst I am pleased that they are looking into this I am just worried what this could be, I did have some basic Immune test and they came back fine. What else could be wrong, should I be worried? 

Any advice would be appreciated. 
Thanks all, hope you all get your BFP soon xx


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## poppylou

hi i would be interested to find out what tests are available. we have just had our 3rd bfn but told its one of those things and its a 50% chance of it working each time. our hosp are not willing to carry out any further tests.

good luck for the future and hope you get some answers xx


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## Every cloud....

Hi Moonshine

Just bookmarking as I would be really interested to hear what tests they do and of course the outcome!

Good luck and enjoy the weekend


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## livity k

Hi 

After my 3rd BFN I had the following tests, 

Thrombophilia screening- to check for any clotting/sticky blood issues,- for me - came back no probs

Karyotyping- to check my chromosones are normal- my DH had already had this done before his TESE- came back normal

NK cells test- to check if my immune system was overactive,- slightly elevated levels on some measures

I had already had level 1 immunes which came back fine, 

I took steroids on this cycle and it worked!!

Good luck with whatever investigations you have and am so sorry for your BFN's they are truly rubbish aren't they,

Livity x


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## Moonshine

Hi Ladies 

I have to wait until Sept 1st for results its driving me mad, I just hope I can get some answer's as it why it doesn't seem to implant despite good embyros...  

The Test's I am having sound same as you had Livity only a few more, I do have a copy of the letter which I will find for you Poppylou after 3 BFN 's your clinic should at least do the basic immune test I thought this was standard after 3 BFN's? 

Livity did your clinic test you for NK cells as my clinic don't and not sure where to go to get this test? 

it's sooo frustarting just when you  think you have been through all the test's to get to IVF it starts again.............. 

Good Luck all will keep you informed. xxx


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## poppylou

that would be great thanks then i can ask them direct for tests. can i get any of them done at the gp?


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## livity k

Hi 
I don't think my clinic do the chicago NK tests but they did test them when I asked I'm not exactly sure what they do- maybe just the levels in your blood, sorry not to be more helpful, I would look on the immune threads for more info on this,

I know I had 11 vials of blood taken to cover all the tests,

Livity x


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## anyamac

Hi Moonshine so sorry for BFNs.
Hopefully you'll get an answer after all the tests. I know it's awful having to wait that long but it might help you next time.
You're lucky your clinic is doing these tests as not all of them do.

Fingers are crossed for you. Don't give up.
Hugs
x


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## Moonshine

Hi PoppyLou , Here are the test that the clinic have requetsed for me, so might be worth you discussing with your clinic; 

Basic Immune 1 came back clear which were - Testosterone, Prolcatin, Thyroid function test, FSH/LH, anti nuclear antibody, Thyroid Peroxidase and Cardiolipin IgG antibody these were negative, However Cardiolipin IgM  was a weak positive so they are re-testing this. 

I am waiting on results for the following; 

Lupus anticoagulant, Thrombophilia screen, Homocysteine levels and Karyotype for me and hubby. 

Hope this helps you. 

I am lucky they have tested for these for me, it was the clinic who suggested it to me as all 4 transfer were with excellent Blastcyst embyoes so think they are as baffled as I am, hopefully it's nothing to serious 

Good Luck xx


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## Cazg2

Hi Moonshine

I am in a similar boat to you, our 3rd cycle has failed and my clinic has suggested the NK Cell test, however, I wasn't aware there were others until I investigated on FF. If you go onto the IVF section of FF, I think there is a separate section for immune tests and I found the FAQ section really helpful. The whole test thing is a mine field. My clinic only does the NK cell test, but another girl on here said hers came back ok and she went ahead with another cycle at the same clinic, but then it failed. She then went to the ARGC in London and they did all the Chicago Tests, on top of the NK Cell test and they found problems. She has since got her BFP. 

Hope this helps and good luck!

Caroline xxx


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## Moonshine

Hello Ladies

Thanks for your support all, just got back from the hospital and the test have again showed a weak positive on the Cardiolipin IgM which means my blood is slightly thicker than it should be and they have advised a take a small dose of Asprin everyday and if I ever get my BFP I will need daily injections to keep the blood thin, just hope this is the answer I have been looking for don't think their are any more test's I can have. 

Has anyone else had anything similar? 
xx


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## Cherry17

Hi girls  if you want to find more information on immunes look at this forum
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=52.0 and especially FAQ sticky tread for explanation of the tests and results. Good luck


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## keyno1

Bookmarking


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## rainbow33

Bookmarking


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## Jo82

Just wanted to wish you luck and I'm also interested in the outcome of your tests. We have had 2 BFN and one BFP followed by early M/C. Just having some level 1 immune tests done. 


Jo xxx


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## *ALF*

Just stumbled across this thread and thought I would just add something from my experience.

I had all the immune tests done - which came back showing a couple of low level problems for which I took clexane and prednisolone (blood thinner and steroids) BUT I also had a pelvic blood flow scan done which I would highly recommend.  During my previous cycles there never seemed to be a problem with my womb lining - it was always triple lined and of a good thickness but the blood flow scan showed poor flow to my uterus meaning that the third layer of the lining was never developing properly so any embies trying to implant wouldn't be able to properly.  The treatment was to use viagra for 10 days prior to transfer.

My first cycle with the immune and blood flow meds was successful and my DD is fast approaching 2.5. Had I just had the immune drugs chances are it would still not have worked cos the lining was still not acceptable.

So, from my experience I would recommend immune testing AND a blood flow scan.

Hope that helps.
ALF


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## Moonshine

Hi Alf,

Thanks for this info really helpful as I have just had my 5 FET with blastcyst and this is my last frostie so wasn't sure where to go from here if this cycle is negative. There is so much out there that he doctors dont tell you, for now I am on Asprin so will see what happens. 

Thanks again and so pleased for your BFP , Congrats!! xx


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## pinkpixie

Hi
Just wondering where people are going for their immunes have people managed to get their GP's to do their level ones.  I have just had my 4th BFN after being told each time we have excellent embies.  My clinic (St Marys in Manchester) have no intrest in doing further tests or even seeing if we can go to blast so will need to sort any testing out myself (cant move clinics as NHS funded).  Just dont want to keep trying without ruling some stuff out first.


Moonshine fingers crossed for you


Jo    what have you been tested for


xx
h


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## Cozy

Pinkpixie,

the Dr's/clinics that do immune testing are Dr Gorgy in London, ARGC in London, Care Nottingham and Care Manchester are now doing them.

level 1 tests are a starting point, but the level 2 "Chicago" tests are the most comprehensive and are well worth having done, though they are expensive. If you just want the testing and treatment, then Dr Gorgy is your man, you have to do your IVF cycles with the other clinics.

Cozy


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## mrssigns

Just book marking. Thanks for all the information.

Mrs signs


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## Ipswichbabe

hi. Im interested in this. I am having another BFN.  just found out today BFN. ive heard frozen embies take longer to implant so i am hold on to a small glimmer of hope as AF hasnt arrived yet. 
Ive had several iuis and BFN everytime and 2 ET's ( 1 fresh 1 Frozen) 
Do know if these implantation tests are done on nhs??


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## pinkpixie

Ipswichbabe     on your BFN, if AF hasnt arrived yet then fingers crossed for you.  Are you taking nay meds such as progesterone as that can delay AF
Some GP's will do some or all of the level 1 immunes but normally you will have to pay for the level2 or chicago tests unless becasue you have had 1 misscarrige they will do some additional tests.  Prob the best thing is to speak to your GP or your clinic if they are open to additional testing which clinic are you at


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## Ipswichbabe

I am on progestrone. Or i was should i say. All meds stop now. AF will come in nxt few days.. Boo hoo!!

I am at Bourn Hall Cambridge. NHS programme.

Thanks for your info. Will contact my GP. The next consulation isnt til mid may. x


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## ANGELA29A

bookmarking.x


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## EverHopefulmum

Hi, just stumbled across this thread. I've has 2 failed IVF cycles and about to embark on another. The clinic has said they will put me on low dose aspirin and steriod for this cycle,  but seems a bit generic/stab in the dark as my clinic dont do immune testing   . 


Roughly speaking how much do level 1 & level 2 tests cost if done privately??


Thanks
Shelly
x


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## pinkpixie

Shelly you might be able to get your GP to do your level 1 tests, we are due to have tests done at care on monday so will let you know prices then as there seems to be some confusion what they cost (think my maths has confused things!!)


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## keyno1

Pinkpixe goodluck for Monday , i got my level ones back and they were fine . Depending on cost dont think i can book level 2 till May   (still got a bit of saving to do)
Hello to everyone else


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## ANGELA29A

this is an interesting thread, and certainly will be enquiring at my clinic.x


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## pinkpixie

Hi Keyno glad your level ones where ok i will let you know the cost of ours after tomorrow !!!


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## ANGELA29A

anyone know about costs yet??


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## pinkpixie

Angela it cost me £2100 for level 1 and 2 immune tests at Care in Manchester it cost  about £650 for the level 1 done as a package although my gp had done some it worked out cheaper to have them all redone.  Just waiting for results now!!


x
h


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## ANGELA29A

i asked about these tests at our follow uop last wednesday, they werent the slightest bit interested at all. pinkpixie keep us posted with results.x


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## MrsPootle

Really interested in this, as it's the immune side of things that has never been done.  And given my 1 miscarriage and 2 BFNs I can't help thinking about whether the implantation part is the problem.  I can get reasonable embryos, just they never stick!


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## ANGELA29A

Mrs pootle, im the same, top grade embies, but they just dont stick!!!. its trying to find Dr to do it, and the cost.x


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## pinkpixie

Hi
Just realised i never updated on this our tests showed numerous probs level ones showed that i have a few clotting issues and also dont absorb folic acid b6 and b12 properly level 2 showed that me and DH have a DQ alpha match which means that my immune system attacks the embryo if it does implant also some of my other immune levels where elevated so from our point of view very worth while having them done.  Have been told i will need cleaxane injections, steroids, high does folic acid b6 and b12 dose of intralipids and metformin and yes baby asprin!!! think thats everything   
xx
h


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## jonut

Hi Ladies
Just got my second BFN, good embryos not sticking!  

Get one more go at Barts but wanted to know if any of you know if they test for you? Not sure when we'll get our follow up consultation so need to know if I have to start looking privately.

Wonder if they'll just give me steroids and the like without any tests, dont want to go through another without the full picture, it's sooooooooooo frustrating!   

Wishing you all a BFP in the near future   
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## keyno1

Jonut sorry to hear about your second BFN , sending you a big   . Its such an emotional rollercoaster. I have had 3 BFN . after my second BFN i did go back to my consultants (st Marys manchester nhs) and they are very reluctant to do any further tests and insist its just luck . You can go to your GP and maybe ask to get your level 1 immune tests done if you are getting good quality embryos. Have a look on the immune thread its very good with lots of information. I'm currently taking some time out while we decide our next steps.
Goodluck and takecare
X


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## jonut

Hi Keyno1

Thanks   

Cant believe you'd go through 3 BFN's all for someone to say its bad luck! Ridiculous!
Ok great, I think I will ask my GP as he's been really good with us in the past over this.

Good idea to take time out, I just feel like now we know there could be another problem we'd better get cracking on finding out whats up and whether we try last funded one or go private and start saving! Just when you think you're nearly there.........  

All the best to you, take care
xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## pinkpixie

jonut-   dont know which hosp you are at but like keyno said st marys (manchester) show no intrest in further tests i have had 5 BFN's (just tested this morning) now and they still insist its luck   .  Dr Gorgy in London will treat you for immunes whilst you have your ivf elsewhere so is worth considering  if you have NHS goes left.  The immunes thread on here is very good and tells you which tests ti have for level 1 which is usful yo take to your GP.
Good luck
xx
h


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## jonut

hi pink pixie,

Thanks for your post, am so sorry darling to hear of your news   

Did your tx fail after having immune testing? sorry, wasn't sure.

Am with Barts have to email them tomorrow with BFN asking what we do next, Im assuming from what i've read they will just let us do no.3 final one with no tests. Having been looking up Dr G, thanks, some serious saving ahead! will check the immunes thread and get onto it, thank you so much.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## pinkpixie

jonut thanks had taken some extra drugs this time but not full protocol want to have a fresh go with full immunes to give it the best chance.  Plan is to go on holiday (go to tenerfie in june) then when we get back both us try and loose some weight, eat healthy and dose up  on the supplements and then go for a fresh go.  Need to also persuade our PCT to transfer our funding to Care and then we will have to pay for our immunes.  Hopefully Barts will be more open and will suggest some extra testing fingers crossed for you.
xx
h


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## jonut

hi pinkpixie

thanks again for the info.  Hope you have a wonderful holiday and some good R&R  

have a follow up apt with Barts next month so will see what they have to say, hopefully something good  

all the best hun
xxxxxxxxxxxx


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