# ARGC or SERUM for 43 Year Old



## AnnandJim (Jun 11, 2014)

Hi my wife is 43 and I am 57, we have one daughter 12 Yrs Old conceived naturally,  but since then no luck.
  We had a couple of consultations with an IVF Specialist in Darlington, then out of the blue I got offered a job in Cyprus.  Now that we are settled in here we want to start the process ASAP.  
Initially I was thinking to use the ARGC because of it's excellent success rate, and  I sent off the application form a week ago and so far no response. In the meantime we have been reading a lot of good reviews about the SERUM Clinic in Athens.  For practical purposes this would be a good option for us being as Athens is only a  90 minute flight  as opposed to  5 hours to London.
I wanted to get the opinions of those of you who have used either or both of these clinics. Unfortunately time is not on our side and we want to go to the clinic which will give us  our best chance of success.
We would appreciate any info at all,
Ann and Jim


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## mmummy (Dec 20, 2013)

Hi,
I'm 42 this month and have just recently cycled at ARGC.  I've also just done the research (for me) as to whether to do serum or argc.

If you're planning using your own eggs, and you can afford it, I'd go ARGC no question (based on the 40-42 age range).  For my age bracket, the most recent pregnancy stats (whereby a pregnancy is seeing a heartbeat) is around 47% (if memory serves correctly) for ARGC.  This will drop to probably very low 40's for live birth rate.  I've recently been given stats by someone who is about to do serum, who indicated for the same age range it's about 22% for serum.

I was a poor responder, and having spoken to many people who were cycling at the same time as me, i'm sure that at most places it would have been a cancelled cycle due to not having enough/any follicles.  In the end it was a tough journey, but i got 10 eggs.... and i put it all down to argc's focused monitoring and changing meds daily.

If i was doing donor eggs, i'd probably consider serum, though, for various reasons.


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## AnnandJim (Jun 11, 2014)

Thanks mmummy that was exactly the type of feedback we are looking for.  I forgot to mention it in my OP but my wife wants if possible to use her own eggs, and it seems that the ARGC is the best option for that.  I will try calling the ARGC  and try to find out what's happening with our appointment,
Thanks
Ann and Jim


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## mamochka (May 23, 2013)

A&J,

I guess I am a good example as did both. 
Went straight to ARGC based on stats and my friend recommendation (she has 2 sons from cycling there). they overstimulated me in spite of all the monitoring and I had mild to moderate OHSS. I got a chemical on that cycle and there was no immunosuppression as all my immunes came as normal. At the follow=up consultation they told us "No, we have done everything correctly and next time will probably repeat the protocol". Then there was FET with another BFP and miscarriage at 9w. 
Moved to Serum which has a perfect communication system (response of less than 24h), very humane bedside manners, sincere interest in your success, treatment of immunes but with bit different angle to ARGC, and obviously financial reasons. Penny herself has a wealth of knowledge and is ready to share it with you and also listens to your ideas. So I have done 1 fresh cycle - another miscarriage which is probably tells me by now  the problem is either sperm or eggs or both and no problem to get pregnant. I am doing another cycle now  with them and probably will stick with them forever)))

Good luck deciding!
Mx


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## AnnandJim (Jun 11, 2014)

Hi Mamochka,
                Thanks for the info on both clinics, and fingers crossed that your next cycle  will be successful. Can I ask how long you had to stay in Athens when you started the treatment.  I had read somewhere that the  ARGC requires you to be available fo about 3 weeks,

Best Wishes
Ann and Jim


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## mamochka (May 23, 2013)

With Serum its 10-14 days if you plan carefully. They want you for day 6/7 scan then more scans/bloods followed by EC and ET. The baseline scan you do locally and send Penny the results and pictures if available


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## mmummy (Dec 20, 2013)

Ann and Jim,

Assuming you do a short protocol (i think that's likely with the age), then ARGC would require Ann to give bloods every morning at about 7:30 am for the first week (see my comment on timing below, though), then they will call to say what to inject that day.  There'll also be scans about every 2nd day, usually in the morning, early.  For the 2nd week, she'll be giving bloods at 7:30 then likely injecting and going back again later in the day to give more bloods.  Scans probably daily (varied between morning and afternoon), and if signs of OHSS, then twice daily.  This 2nd week I would entirely recommend to try and accomplish nothing else, but find a good book, some others in the same situation to go and grab a smoothie with, and just not stress.  After the trigger injection, there is 36 hours until egg collection.  Then 2 to 5 days later is embryo transfer.  After egg collection, things usually get a lot quieter.  I had very little interaction in the 2ww, but some people have a lot more; depending on progesterone levels and immunes.  to make things difficult, the two weeks i discussed above may be condensed into about 8 days, or may go for as long as 20, apparently.  This is probably where the 3 weeks comes in!  I was a poor responder, and took longer than those people around me - 15 days of stims.  Most people i was chatting with during my cycle seemed to stim for say 12 days, though there were some less.  I should note that i think some people do some of the testing remotely in the first week, but i don't know anything about it personally.

You are expected to go back to give bloods for your official test, and if you are pregnant, and there are issues, you will need to give more bloods so they know how to treat you (particularly for immunes).

If you are specifically looking for a relaxed environment, go to Serum.  ARGC is very focussed, and you need to know that they are caring for you individually - without necessarily having the time to chat.  If you ask, they will always answer and are excellent.  If you don't ask questions, they do have a tendency to treat you without explaining exactly why you have changed drugs that day, etc.  TBH, having cycled once there, i did consider going to serum for the next cycle - almost a mini holiday complete with ivf   The results for me, though, are what is more important - it might be half the cost, and more enjoyable, but results wise i would need to do 2 cycles for the same average result, which is difficult when time is ticking...

Best of luck with making your decision.


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## LuckyE (Dec 9, 2013)

Mmummy can I ask how much your cycle cost?


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## mmummy (Dec 20, 2013)

LuckyE, I've had my head in the sand a bit and didn't tot it up properly.... I was too scared   

Having said that, i think it was probably around the £14k mark... but I had a LOT of drugs over my cycle.  You might expect a similar price if you have to do IVIG, or if you're a poor responder.  Otherwise, it would be cheaper.


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## AnnandJim (Jun 11, 2014)

Hi Mmummy, Thank You so much for taking the time to write out such a detailed and informative reply. That was really helpful. The way it's looking at the moment we will be going to the ARGC.  
We have a family holiday booked to return to England in July/August and ARGC have told us we can have an appointment during that time.  We will go and see ARGC and hopefully progress to a protocol.  Being as time is against us we need to take the option which offers most chance of success.  Money  is always a consideration but on this occasion we  are prepared to sacrifice other plans to pursue the dream of another child before it's too late. Thanks once Mmummy and Mamochka again for all the great information
Ann and Jim


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## Blondie71 (Oct 26, 2011)

As you're already in Cyprus is Dogus not an option for you? I had success at Serum and cant comment on ARGC as never tried them, I found some UK clinics very expensive in my opinion esp in London. I had my first cycle at Dogus and think I had a fair crack of the whip with them, my tubal issues most likely caused tx failure not the clinic, hth.


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## mmummy (Dec 20, 2013)

Ann, Jim,
While you're waiting to see them (and bearing in mind there is a month long monitoring cycle after the first appointment anyway), you may want to read angelbumps fertility protocol (here on FF), and also consider googling the other things you can do for healthy eggs in the 90 days before they're mature.  (although ARGC don't like DHEA, there are other helpers such as agnus castus).  I wish I'd known about this stuff while i was on my 'wait'!

Good luck whereever you go!


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## AnnandJim (Jun 11, 2014)

Hi Blondie71, it's a good thought, and we did think about the Dogus, however it seemed to have very mixed reviews compared to ARGC and Serum. If Ann was younger we may have just decided to use the Dogus safe in the knowledge that we would have time in hand to try elsewhere if not successful.
Unfortunately time is against us and we are trying to identify our best chance of success, although we are realists and understand that no clinic can guarantee success,

Best Wishes
Ann and Jim



Blondie71 said:


> As you're already in Cyprus is Dogus not an option for you? I had success at Serum and cant comment on ARGC as never tried them, I found some UK clinics very expensive in my opinion esp in London. I had my first cycle at Dogus and think I had a fair crack of the whip with them, my tubal issues most likely caused tx failure not the clinic, hth.


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## Blondie71 (Oct 26, 2011)

Fair enough Jim you have to do what feels right  Has Ann had her AMH level checked as that will determine using OE or not, I know at serum penny prefers OE if possible so she wont lie to you one way or the other, are you open to DE if it's necessary?


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## mmummy (Dec 20, 2013)

Ann, Jim, 
I've just had one of those 'oops' moments .... I should have mentioned that embryo transfer is anywhere from 2 to 6 days after egg collection.  You likely won't know until the morning of the day you have the ET as it will depend how many eggs/embryos you have, and how many are planned to be put back in ... so you'll kind of have to just be ready to go at any time.  ET is usually in the mornings, and you'll probably be told around 7:30ish how things are looking on that particular day.... you'll need to factor that in when considering where you'll be located after EC.


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## AnnandJim (Jun 11, 2014)

Thanks mmummy, 
That's good information to know and will help us with our planning, sorry for the late reply, DD had her 13th Birthday Party yesterday, and the preparations for it kept us busy all weekend (was worth it though, she had a blast)



mmummy said:


> Ann, Jim,
> I've just had one of those 'oops' moments .... I should have mentioned that embryo transfer is anywhere from 2 to 6 days after egg collection. You likely won't know until the morning of the day you have the ET as it will depend how many eggs/embryos you have, and how many are planned to be put back in ... so you'll kind of have to just be ready to go at any time. ET is usually in the mornings, and you'll probably be told around 7:30ish how things are looking on that particular day.... you'll need to factor that in when considering where you'll be located after EC.


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