# Create Health Clinic : Part 3



## Skybreeze

*New Home Ladies
    *​


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## SusieB20

Hi all

Ooh, I'm first to post on the new thread!

Hope everyone is well

Annabell - were you able to book your day 5 scan yet?

Clare - how's the testing going?

Buffy - hope you're feeling better now

Natasha - were you able to get any more information yet? Hope you're feeling more reassured

Lulu - did you have any joy with your GP about getting your tubes checked? Would you go with the same donor for IUI or try someone new?

Not much to report here - am now 4 days post transfer so ventured out for a short walk today (mostly to replenish DVD supplies!). I'm surrounded by orange, doing the visualisation, keeping calm and rested and eating well so it's a very quiet life indeed! Have had the odd twinge and feeling bloated from the progesterone but that's about it.

Wondered what your views were on blood test vs home testing kit? There's part of me that thinks that the blood test will give the definitive answer as to whether we've been successful but I can't imagine waiting around for the results and would much rather be at home with a testing kit. What has everyone else done?

xxx


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## annabell99

Oooh exciting new board!

I'm still waiting for AF- still spotting but not enough to warrant booking the day 5 scan yet. Also got some sort of stomach bug, I think it's partly tension. I'm having a lot of trouble relaxing and sleeping at the moment, I have a permanent knot in my stomach like before exams which makes it difficult to eat  I don't really know why, I'm not consciously worrying.

Susie- good to hear that you are keeping calm! I went for blood tests both times but it was the worst feeling to then have to wait for the BFN call all day, also it was pretty embarassing because when I got the call I cried so much that I couldn't even speak to them for a while. I have decided that next time I will test at home and only go in for a blood test to confirm a positive result. I think you have to wait a couple of days longer to get an accurate home test, but it is still much less stressful I think.

Hope everyone else is well, lots of love to all

xx


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## ClareTG

hello everyone on our spanking new board!

well at long last i had a smiley face on my pee-stick this evening! It's day 15 today so i was beginning to panic that i wasn't showing any signs of ovulating - i've been doing it every 12 hours since last friday & have gone through 13 sticks & hadn't realised how tense i'd been getting about it until I saw the smiley face this evening - the relief! So i'll phone Create in the morning & hopefully the ET will happen on monday - i'd already booked the day off thinking it'd be happening on Friday or Saturday. 

Annabell - hope your tummy bug & knot eases. The spotting is so annoying when you just want AF to arrive (or rather not!). 

Lulu - are you still hanging in there or has AF arrived? I had the longest time spotting last month which was the cycle after my IVF cycle.

Buffy - are you in the midst of AF now? Hope you're feeling less exhausted.

Natasha - hope your placement's been going OK this week. I don't suppose there's any specialists at King's you could approach to ease your mind about the pre-eclampsia (probably not set up as easily as that?!)

Susie - i have everything crossed for you. Definitely take it day by day. I did the blood test - which wasn't pleasant getting the negative result later at work - i may just try a home test next time.

Love to all
x


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## lulumead

Hello lovelies

Susie: good to hear you are taking it easy...we want another create baby on here please    No pressure!!  Re blood test v HPT, i always test at home and 1st time I had a blood test cos of the biochemical, 2nd go did one just to confirm a negative and the third time I didn't bother!

Annabell: hope you feel a bit better soon...horrible feeling like that.

Clare: thanks for the info re;spotting pre AF and post IVF! I spotted saturday to Wednesday when AF arrived one the day it was always due!!  Good news about the smiley face  

Am pleased to report that I have been referred by my GP for the tests with Geeta at St Georges      Originally she said no but then asked for clarification from the PCT and result.  So thats saved me a few hundred pounds and I can see if there is anything I should be worrying about.

xxx


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## cwsg

hi Lulumead, that#s good news that Geeta is doing something on the NHS! I didn't realise she still worked for them.

Just to encourage you, i am 30 weeks pregnant on Monday!!!!
and starting to feel well too.

It did take me several years of trying, 3 IUI's a natural ivf and then a mild IVF. I was ready to be a mum ten years ago really. Sometimes things just take a long long time, but that do happen.

all the best 

cwsg xxxx


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## annabell99

Hello all!

Finally AF is here so I have a day 5 scan next tuesday!     that this time will be lucky. The timing means that (if we get through all the hurdles ) OTD will be on or around Christmas Day, I hope that's a good omen. 

Clare- congrats on the smiley face! It is really stressful isn't it because you start to think you might have somehow missed it - I ended up doing 3 pee sticks a day because I was so worried that I might not catch it. And the pee sticks are expensive! (Although it is a drop in the ocean in the overall picture  ) Good luck on Monday, I hope the transfer goes well!   

Lulu- Well done on getting the tests on the NHS!!!   Do you have to wait long? 

cwsg- thanks for the encouragement, it is good to be reminded about such a happy outcome. I'm glad you are starting to feel well.

I hope everyone is well, lots of love to all

xx


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## lulumead

hello all,

great news annabell that you can get going again...fingers crossed for a brilliant christmas present this year  

CW: its very lovely to be reminded that it can and does work, you have waited a long time. I'm glad you are finally feeling well too and can hopefully enjoy the last bit.

Geeta said to call her and she will try to do my tests in Jan/feb.  I'm actually enjoying having nothing to do with ttc at the moment.  The thing I find really tough is that I've never tried to get pregnant naturally, no of the blokes i was with were ready so I've ended up here in what feels like a weird way sometimes...and when I think like that I realise I've only had 6 attempts at even trying...which is nothing really. Ho hum.  Had a very teary day today, work is really stressful and without the back up of a supportive partner I have no chance of leaving. Oh well, onwards and upwards.
xx


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## NatashaM

Hi all,

Hope everyone is looking forward to a nice, relaxing weekend.

Susie - I am really keeping my fingers crossed for you. It sounds like you are totally in the right frame of mind. Very impressed as it is so hard to stay calm, focused and positive.

Clare - lots of luck for Monday. It can get frustrating waiting for that postive on the opk. I normally ovulate on day 17 but one month it wasn't until day 21. You get yourself so worked up beforehand. Day 15 sounds like everything is working well - practically bang on the average day.

Lulu - I am SO PLEASED you are getting the tests on the NHS. I'm sure you've paid for them many times over in taxes! Very much deserved, really happy for you. Sorry that things are getting you down at the mo, I'm sure it is harder without the support of a partner. I am so impressed and proud of your efforts - it isn't easy and you should be gentle with yourself because you've been through a lot. I hope you have a lovely weekend and go back to work feeling recharged on Monday. 

CSWG - Great to hear that you are doing well. Not long to go.

Annabell - Glad that you are sorted now for dates. It is annoying to spot for ages and wonder what's going on - I did after my failed IVF and it just made me feel like everything was messed up but I think, from reading other people's posts, that it is quite normal.

I did go back to the Harris Birthright Trust at King's and I explained to the receptionist that I'd not been able to stop worrying about the last set of tests and being told I was at 'high risk' but not, sort of, how much risk. She actually told me to sit down and got one of the doctors to take me into a room with comfy chairs for a chat then and there. I was really impressed and grateful and the doctor did put my mind at ease a lot. I had my BP checked - it was a little bit higher than last time but nothing near the danger area and I'm going to keep being checked every couple of weeks.

We went to our first NCT class in the church hall in Dulwich Village last night. It was really good. I never thought I'd get there - so please, ladies, do not give up hope. 

I'll be 24 weeks on Sunday which is a lovely milestone because it signifies viability.

A day on the wards is tough on the feet. I think I'm going to buy some softer shoes from Clark's tomorrow (the glamour). I've found some things frustrating, like the disorganisation - running out of things like disposable wash cloths and not knowing when we're going to get any more, but some things have been great. I helped a lady who had an op over a week previously to sit in the disabled shower and washed and dried her hair for her for the first time since - it made her really happy.


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## ClareTG

Hello everyone

Lots of good news there!

Lulu - brilliant news you get to see Geeta on the NHS - well done for pushing your GP. That is a result! Hope you have a good rest from TTC for a bit now & get some answers in the new year. I feel for you with the work situation - i've had a tough year with that too & it helps to be able to offload to someone & check that you're not going mad! Hope you get to offload on someone (sometimes a partner isn't the best person even when they are around!)

CW - thanks for giving us a boost. So good to hear of the successes. Hope the rest of your pregnancy goes really well.

Natasha - glad you've been reassured, that must be a relief. Dulwich village hall sounds like a nice place to have your NCT! And you've done your 1st week on the ward - hope the fulfilling parts outweighed the frustrations & good luck with the comfy shoe hunt (not quite on a SATC scale!)

Annabel - hooray at last you can get scanning - good luck for Tuesday.

I'll be in monday morning with my furry socks. The embryologist said i may have to hang around for a bit in case the thawing hasn't quite completed. We've gone for all 3 to see which look best (don't quite want to let the 3rd one go!)

have good weekends everyone
xx


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## lulumead

Thanks for the lovely support ladies. Am sitting here    Think its partly as is day 3 of my cycle and weirdly I always feel low on that day    , partly work and partly because work and funding issues now mean that NY man not coming in January. I stupidly had got myself worked up about seeing him again, and realistically I just don't think he can be bothered as great as he thinks I might be. So feeling yet again, another one doesn't quite work out.

My mum is coming tomorrow but she is such a worrier that sometimes its best not to tell her too much and offload on friends. I'm lucky to have lots of lovely ones but I just feel like they just deal with my crapness at the moment. Can't afford to do nice things as treatment costs so much etc etc etc

Anyway blah blah blah...sorry turned into a bit of a me post.

Clare: glad the furry socks are coming out...can you have all 3 popped back?
Natasha: good to hear you are enjoying ward practice and that blood pressure is ok. I'm all for comfy shoes, I'm in trainers all the time!

Lxx


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## annabell99

Lulu-

   I hope you are feeling better today xx 

I'm so sorry your NY man isn't coming over, I know you were looking forward to that   

I'm sure your friends don't think they are "dealing with your crapness" , that is what friends are for, and you are going through a very difficult time at the moment. You can always write on here, we are always here for you!   

Clare- Very exciting about Monday! Do you have to chose 2 on the day or can you have all 3 back? 

Natasha- Really glad you have had reassurances about the pre-eclampsia and it's great that your first week on the ward went well! It sounds like it can be a very rewarding job. Good luck with the comfy shoe hunt and congratulations on your Sunday milestone  

I hope everyone is well, lots of love to all

xx


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## ClareTG

Sorry i wasn't very clear in my last post - it'll be the standard 2 they're putting back - it was our call how many to defrost though Geeta did recommend to thaw all 3 just in case one's not viable, & to chose the best 2. The embryologist said they doubt they'd be able to re-freeze the 3rd if all 3 thaw out OK, which i'd kind've assumed. It's the sacrificial lamb!

Lulu - boo to the NY man. Hope he changes his mind, or the xmas season gives you another reason to be hopeful for January! Mums love nothing more than looking out for their children so I wouldn't feel bad offloading on her. Hope you have a good time with her. And as Annabel says we're here for you. Anything you feel you can't put upon your friends you definitely can here. Hope you can treat yourself to a bit of a cosy afternoon/evening (i've just been for a walk around the park - it's a bit brrr out there) - a good book, magazine or DVD & some hot chocolate!


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## SusieB20

Clare - best of luck for Monday, hope the thaw and the transfer go well. Sounds like a sensible decision about thawing all 3 embies to give yourselves the best chance of having two really good ones transferred. Will be thinking of you  

Lulu -    - hope you're feeling a bit better today. Sorry about the NY man, that's not the news you needed right now. Hope you're able to talk to your mum a bit and you shouldn't worry about offloading on your friends - I remember on another post that you'd spent the day at the hospital with your friend and baby so you're obviously very supportive yourself, there's no harm in getting that reciprocated when you're feeling down. Hope you manage to enjoy your weekend and not think about work - there's always XFactor to keep us going!

Annabell - good luck for Tuesday, hope there's a good amount of growth - are you feeling any better now?

CW - lovely to hear from you!! I was wondering how you were doing and it's great to have a a positive boost and I'm glad you're feeling a lot better now

Natasha - that's great that a doctor took the time to discuss your concerns - I hope it's made you feel a lot more reassured. Your ward practice sounds really rewarding work as well. Good luck with the shoe hunt!

Well I had a little 'blip' in my relaxed state yesterday as it was the first time I really started worrying about the test next week. I think that being in the house for so long was also getting to me so I went into Wimbledon to get my hair cut and have a little look around the shops. I'm trying to balance the whole 'taking it easy' with not giving myself time to start obsessing about every twinge etc. Yesterday our cat jumped on my lap and accidentally stepped back into my stomach which led me into a panic that he would have squished the embryos....it was obviously time for me to get out....! . It doesn't help that I have no real appetite at the moment and no food appeals - must be the progesterone. Hopefully the fresh air will get that sorted.

Have a lovely relaxing weekend all

xxx


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## Buffy68

Hello girls

Feel a bit   at the moment because I've been very busy the last few days and that combined with having a particularly heavy period has been draining and my throat and glands have been playing up again so I feel like I will never be well again, let alone ever get pregnant.  I'm really going to try to take it easy today and next week and have nothing planned next weekend so really hoping to get on top of this so I can be healthy for the New Year.

Annabell - sorry you had to have your AF too   but happy to hear it's underway now and you're all booked in for a scan next week.  Are you feeling excited yet?  I had that knot in the stomach thing as well - it sort of travelled round my colon for several days so I expect it is a funny bug doing the rounds.

Susie - I am sure you are quite right to start going out, having a little bit of exercise and fun to take your mind off the 2WW, now you are in, or close to, the second week.  Try not to over anlayse every symptom now.  Have you got some good books to read?  If you're not doing much exercise you're not going to get very hungry.

Clare -   for your ET and 2 good embryos to put back.

Lulu - sorry to hear you are   too.  I think it's partly the time of year, plus day 3 is never going to be the highpoint of anyone's cycle.  Maybe you should go out and visit your flame in NY and have a holiday in January?  Glad to hear you can have your tubes checked on the nhs and that you can go through Geeta.

Natasha - good for you for actively seeking out the information and reassurance you needed.  I am sure as long as your blood pressure stays stable you have nothing to worry about.  And thank you for your kind words of encouragement to us all.  Glad to hear your new job is working out and you're finding it interesting.

cwsg - thank you to you also for the encouraging words.  Also I am so glad you are feeling better.


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## ClareTG

Hello everyone

Just thought i'd post a quick update. 

Had the FET this morning - of the 3 that were thawed, the 2 8-cell embies thawed out really well & stayed at 8-cells each. the 3rd one had been a 7 & thawed out to a 4 so they decided that was the one to leave behind (still could've been viable so sad to see it go but it obviously makes sense to have the stronger 2 - OMG i've become cold & Darwinian!)

They said the transfer went easily. Lashmi said i didn't need progesterone as i'd had a natural cycle, but could if i wanted to. So obviously i did - don't want any spotting to add to the 2WW! Just one in the am & one at night. Natasha - you took 2 at night didn't you?

I'll do a test on 11th. Eek. Fingers crossed will try & remain as relaxed as possible. I may take tomorrow of work, but will definitely be back in the normal swing of things & determined not to get wound up, but keeping busy.

Susie - hope you feel refreshed after getting out & about. My cat likes to kneed my stomach so know what you mean about being overly protective of that area!

Buffy & Lulu - hope you're both feeling less down & drained & had good relaxing weekends. Lulu get some high does vitamin C & manuka honey down you.  Lulu hope you had a nice time with your mum.

Annabel - good luck for tomorrow's scan - let us know how it goes.

Love to all of course

xx


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## lulumead

Great news Clare...they must be pretty hardy to survive the thaw so thats good. Roll on the 11th...more create babies please  

Am feeling a bit perkier today.  Am contemplating going to Malta for New Year as my friend is from there and he is at home visiting his family. Really expensive to fly there but I might just do it! Would be just as cheap to fly to NY but not much point doing that!

lots of love everyone else.
xx


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## SusieB20

Clare - that's brilliant that the two 8-cell embies thawed so well, hope you manage to stay nice and relaxed up to 11th. Makes sense to have the progesterone too. Sending you lots of    

Lulu - glad you're feeling a bit better - Malta sounds like a great idea and it will be warmer than here! Giving yourself some time away will probably be well worth the money

Well I went back to work today which was good (apart from getting caught in the rain!) - luckily it's not crazy busy but there's enough going on to keep me occupied and distracted. I've decided to do the blood test on Thursday rather than wait until the weekend to do a HPT as we're going for a long weekend to Cornwall to visit my family and it will be easier to know before we go otherwise I'll be getting tense the whole time (and I think that once I know it's possible to find out the result I'll just want to know!). I had an acupuncture session tonight so that has helped in keeping me relaxed.

Annabell - good luck for tomorrow's scan

Love to all xxx


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## dora3

Hi Ladies 
Hope you don't mind me joining this new thread - I had my first appointment on the 8th Dec at Create and was really pleased that I chose them, Geeta is very nice and seemed very supportive. My DP had to repeat a semen analysis as Geeta informed us that the one he did on the nhs which came back normal did not test the morphology of the sperm which is a major factor in MF! Unfortunately the test results were not good and this analysis showed low count, low motility and 93% abnormal forms. Has anyone else had any experience of this? We are hoping that giving up the booze and taking lots of vits will improve it but at the moment it looks like ICSI/IVF is our only option. 

It is really nice to read all the good news, and to hear that it does actually work out for some people, it offers much comfort and hope. 

Good luck everyone


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## 2Flowergirl

Hi ladies,

I am also new and have just joined FF but I have been lurking and reading posts for a few weeks now  .  We had our first consultation at Create last week and are very pleased so far.  Geeta was very nice and the staff very friendly, which is important.  Just got my hormone levels back today and now need to wait for my DH's urologist appt then have our follow up before we start our first cycle in the New Year!

I have a 7 year old daughter by a previous relation but my DH and I have been trying for a child ogether for 4 years -we discovered in 2007 that he had a very low sperm count (under 1 mil) and this was confirmed by a 2nd SA test last week, so it looks like we will be doing ICSI with TESA/PESA?  

Good luck to everyone!!!


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## NatashaM

Hi All,

Just a quick one before I dash off to work. 

Clare - I am thrilled you got two perfect embryos thawed and replaced. Couldn't be better news at this stage. Yes, I took one progesterone pessary in the morning and two at night - the same as you.

Susie - when are you going to test? I got a very very faint line ten days after transfer.

Welcome to the new ladies and (((hugs))) to all. 

I'm doing fine.

N xx


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## annabell99

Hi all!

Clare- Congrats on having the two wonderful little embies on board!    for a peaceful 2ww and a happy outcome!

Buffy- I hope you are feeling a bit better now    It must be very frustrating having a bug you can't shake off. You will get better and you will get pregnant   . I was feeling very low last week but it seems to have improved a bit this week with the better weather - I think this time of year is just not good for PMA!

Lulu- Malta is a great idea! It will be warmer and sunny and give you a good break and chance to spoil yourself.

Susie- I hope being back at work is still going ok. Good luck for the blood test   - I can see why you'd rather do it that way than wait if you are away at the weekend.

Dora- Hi and welcome to the thread! Your DH's analysis sounds very similar to mine. He stopped smoking and drinking and it did improve a bit but we still have to use ICSI. It seems like everytime he gets one bit of the analysis fixed another bit gets worse- to start with it was very low count and then the count improved (although still very low) but the abnormal forms got worse, next time the abnormal forms were a bit better but  mobility got worse. It's very strange, and so unfair and frustrating for him becuase he has tried so hard to improve it 

Flowergirl - Hi and welcome to the thread! Sorry for ignorance but what is TESA/PESA?

Natasha- Good to hear you're doing well!    Sorry for nosiness but was there a reason you had two progesterone pessaries at night? I only had one in the morning and one at night (not that I want more, they make me feel like a zombie!  ) 

AFM- day 5 scan yesterday was fine, so next scan on Friday. I am having a bit of trouble being positive this time. The first time I thought it was fine if it didn't work becuase we would have to be lucky for it to work first time. The second time I thought it would work but it didn't. Now I'm really scared of it not working again. I'm a bit worried that lack of PMA will have a negative effect but then I think surely that is only superstition?


Lots of love to all

xx


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## Buffy68

Hi all

Annabell - thanks for the encouraging words, it means a lot to me. Certainly PMA is easier when the sun is shining. Glad to hear your scan on day 5 was OK and hope you see some good healthy growth on Friday  I can understand why you are finding it harder to be positive on your third go, you are just protecting yourself from possible disapointment. I do think PMA is helpful and this is something I have struggled with after cancelled cycles. However, I was reading a book by Shakti Gawain (who invented Creative Visualisation) and she was saying you can't just override negative thoughts, you have to work through the emotions that have built up rather than try to push them away. In other words you have to accept that you have been through an emotional roller coaster these last few months and that some strong feelings are going to seek expression before you can start working on your PMA. Hope this makes sense. I have just started to see someone who does counselling just to express these feelings that have been building up and then hopefully "move on" emotionally and mentally. I even wondered if the problems I've been having with my throat might be about all the emotions I'm not expressing. Anyway, on a more practical note, try not to be _afraid_ of it not working out this cycle because, although it will be a shame if it doesn't, you still have many, many more cycles and different options in front of you.

Dora and Flowergirl - it's nice to hear from you and I hope you'll keep us up to date with your progress.

Clare - so glad to hear your ET went well and you have 2 chances this cycle. I'll be rooting for you on 11 December 

Susie - good luck for your test.


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## NatashaM

Hi All,

Yes, Buffy that makes a lot of sense to me. I think things like CBT concentrate too much maybe on just ignoring or challenging sad or low thoughts and sometimes we really need to acknowledge them before we can be postive.

Annabell - No idea why I had 2 at night. I assumed that was what everyone had. I'm just guessing but maybe because I have a short luteal phase. Didn't have the transfer until day 21 (with 3 day embryos). One thing that helped me was thinking that every cycle, every procedure was one step nearer to the day I had my baby, you know, even if they didn't work it was still a step in the right direction...

xx


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## lulumead

hello all

just a quick one re: pessaries!  I did one in the morning and one at night when doign cyclogest but with utrogeston I did 1 morning, 2 night...think they can all be different amounts too, so that might explain different amounts for people! who knows!
x


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## ClareTG

Ah Lulu you might be onto something - I'm on cyclogest & take 1 per am & pm & was going to check with Natasha if maybe i should take 2 in the evening to cover all bases. Which pessaries did you take Natasha? I had my transfer on day 19 with the 3 day embryos - so not far behind you on your cycle.

Thanks to everyone for kind thoughts & prayers on the embryos. I had a paranoia attack this morning when, still sleepy in bed, i turned over from my side to my back & had an almighty twinge across my tummy - like a muscle pull. I really hope it was a superficial lazy muscle & nothing deeper inside detaching if anything had had a chance to attach (oh dear - overthinking it i know!)

Annabell i hope your PMA will return - but don't give yourself a hard time for it not being there, as there's something in you subconsciously protecting yourself. Whilst PMA is no doubt powerful, there are so many things our body gets on & does without our knowledge & whether we're in a good or bad mood. As long as you're relaxed that will do you good.

Buffy - I'm going to look up Shakti Gawain as that all sounds v illuminating

Flowergirl - hello & yes i'd love to know what TESA/PESA is too please (looks like you'll be educating at least some of us!)

Dora - we didn't know if we'd need ICSI until the day of EC though i think they assumed not. DH had 80% abnormal forms, but they seemed to think this was no hindrance & near normal (ironically). The extra expense isn't great , but i think it's amazing the ICSI gets round that problem so straightforwardly.

Susie - GOOD LUCK for the test!


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## NatashaM

It was Utrogestan I was taking. x


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## 2Flowergirl

Hi ladies,

Thanks for the welcomes!

annabell99/ClareTG - We really are learning as we go at the moment....Geeta says that although my husband has 'some' motile sperm the numbers are very low.  So DH is seeing Mr Nargund the urologist next week, then they will tell us about whether PESA/TESA (both are sperm retrieval techniques)is necessary and if so which one he may have to have.  Basically they use a very fine needle to draw sperm from higher up.  With PESA they take it from the epidymis and with TESA from the Testicles (yes - ouch - but apparantly all done under sedation )  If we do this then the sperm will be frozen in advance for when we have the actual ICSI procedure. I really hope we don't need this as it is another £1300 on top of the IVF?/ICSI!

My hormone results were normal yesterday, so all ok there, now just waiting for DH's CF gene and Y Chromosone blood tests to come back (takes 3 weeks for result) plus hormone levels as these may indicate a cause for DH's problem, if ok we can start to prepare for first cycle early next year...our follow up is just before xmas....so will know more then.

Good luck to you all -       !!! x


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## SusieB20

Hello all

After a very sleepless night and longest wait today I finally got my hcg result - it's a BFP!!!!!!!!   

I'm still in shock, sobbed down the phone to Lakshmi and am now booked in for a 6 week scan on 17th.

It's obviously early days so just have to hope these little ones take to their new home and decide to stay - I didn't mention it before but I have immune issues so have been receiving separate treatment from a specialist and will have to continue to 12 weeks (although I mentioned it to the clinic I'm not sure how onboard they are with immune treatment so didn't want to talk about it too much in case they monitored the site and decided not to treat me - paranoid I know!)

Thank you all for your support over the past few weeks - it's been so helpful to read the messages of encouragement - good luck to everyone with your treatment, I'll be logging in regularly to see how everything is going and update you.

Susie xxx

P.S. I asked Lakshmi about the progesterone - she said they switched treatment in the summer as they previously gave 200mg which must be what you were on Natasha - the cyclogest is 400mg so it's fine to just take one in morning and evening


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## annabell99

Congratulations Susie!      

I have been checking in here all day waiting for your news.. was worried when we didn't hear from you , but I'm so pleased it's good news! 

Do you think you could tell about your immune issues now it is "safe" to do so? It's something we often worry about so it would be interesting to hear your thoughts and experiences, but only if you feel comfortable.

Thank you very much Buffy, Natasha and Clare for the thoughts on PMA. It's lovely to be able to say I'm finding it difficult and have such supportive and understanding comments from you all. I have ordered a book by Shakti Gawain as that sounds very sensible. I have tried CBT for various issues before now and while i have no doubt it works in some circumstances in other cases I think it sort of papers over the cracks, so maybe Creative Visualisation will work better. Buffy I hope you are sorting out your throat issues with your therapist. I was wondering if you have thought of lymphatic drainage massage to clear out your immune system (I think that's what it does?  ) I tried it a couple of years ago because I kept having allergies. I think it helped, it's not a miracle cure though.

Thanks to all for the investigations into pessaries- I think it's clearer now! 

Clare don't worry about the twinges - I'm sure you got the "jam sandwich" story where they explained that you can't knock the embies out by accident because they are stuck in like pips in a jam sandwich ? 

Flowergirl- ouch re. the PESA and TESA!  Still I guess it is what we girls all have to do! Good luck for the urologist apptmt and tests and look forward to hearing how your review meeting goes! 

Sorry this is written in a bit of a hurry as it's time for bed...

Lots of love to all


xxx


----------



## lulumead

fabulous news susie, put a smile on my face  

I'd love to hear more about immune stuff, in theory i am text book case (hmmm not sure I believe in such things!) but not worked so far so I'm wondering if something more I need to investigate.

how exciting... 
xx


----------



## dora3

Congratulations Susie! That is such wonderful news and what a fabulous early Christmas present! 

Annabell/Clare - My DH had 93% abnormal forms and when we were sent the test results it said that the treatment we would need was ICSI but maybe this will be reviewed when we have our consultation with Geeta? I am so new to this that I'm not actually sure what the next step is but whichever treatment we end up having, I hope results in a little bundle! 

Flowergirl - ditto on the ouch factor! Sounds incredibly invasive as does all the treament involved with IVF but I guess we have to keep thinking it is a drop in the ocean when you think of what you might have at the end of it. Here's to lots of 2010 babies! 

Hello to everyone else and I just want to say how supportive this thread is becoming, I am very new to the whole forum thing and to be honest was a bit phobic of them but it is really great to read everyone's different experiences and advice. 

Best wishes to all


----------



## Buffy68

Congratulations Susie, that's wonderful news about your PFP   and so inspiring for the rest of us to see it can be done.    Please fill us in on your immune issues.  BTW, I doubt they have the time to monitor these forums.

Natasha - I like your attitude towards doing cycles - even if one doesn't work out you can still see it as taking you one step closer...

Clare - I'm sure your twinge was nothing to worry about, probably nothing at all but given the short period of time since ET more likely implantation than the reverse.

My dh had PESA (because of a failed vasectomy reversal).  Nothing to worry about although the nurse told me that it was a more unpleasant procedure than EC.  Mr Nargund was very nice as well, although he did make dh faint when he checked his epididymis    Given that dh was twice his size I think he got a bit of a shock.  I'm afraid they do get a bit swollen and bruised afterwards, but probably best not to tell your dh that beforehand.

Annabell - which Shakti Gawain book did you order?  I will see if I can find an expert in Lymphatic drainage in Basingstoke.  How did your scan go today?

Love to all
Buffy


----------



## NatashaM

Hi All,

Susie - Congratulations, what fantastic news, I am so happy for you and your husband. Remember to look after yourself, the early days are almost as stressful as waiting to test so don't feel like you are weird if you aren't over the moon all the time, but do try to enjoy it. Thanks for straightening out the progesterone mystery as well. 

Flowergirl - Glad to hear your homone levels are all good. I hope your husband copes well with the aspiration ok, it sounds rather painful but I am sure it will be worth it for a few days of sore balls. 

Annabell - hope the book is useful. I think we've all been through similar ups and downs with the fertility stuff and with other life issues. I did find CBT helpful for some things, especially realising that it's possible to change behaviours by being super-aware of what you are doing and saying and making a conscious decision to try something else. For example my husband would always get really angry if I said "have you done such-and-such yet" and it would turn into a row. I kind of learned that that would always be the reaction so I had to change the way I asked... even changing it to "how did you get on with such-and-such?" which doesn't sound that different obviously is really different to him  because I get a much more positive reaction. 

I actually went and had a session of hypnotherapy on Tuesday to deal with my slightly obsessive worries about the pregnancy - I have to say since then I've dwelled on my fears a lot less. I got a recording of the session to play to myself at home as well. 

Dora - It's good to have you here. 

Buffy - Poor Mr Buffy. I hope there were no lasting ill effects. It just shows how committed he is. 

Clare - I am sure the twinge was nothing at all. When I had my first embryo transfer, I got home and went to the loo and did a number 2. I was positive that I'd squeezed them out and had a total meltdown... I believe I even swang at my poor husband with a kitchen chair   It was, of course, nonsense and would have had no bearing at all on the outcome. How long til you test? Sorry, I know I have asked this already but I am really excited for you and keen to hear that you've been successful.

Love to everyone,
N xx


----------



## annabell99

Hi all!

My scan was fine today, biggest follie was 13mm so scan again on Monday and start wee-sticks from tonight (although I'm not expecting to ovulate for another week, still I suppose it's better to be over-cautious).

Dora- I think sperm analysis can fluctuate quite a lot. The last one we had before coming to Create was ok for IVF (although we did IUI that time) so it was a bit of a shock after the first EC at Create when they came out to tell us that it was only suitable for ICSI. Now they will decide on the day each time depending on the SA (although it has been ICSI both times for us so far). Maybe it will be the same for you? I think success rates are a bit lower with ICSI but it is amazing that it can be done at all, as you say it is the end result which is important!

Buffy- I ordered the Creative Visualisation book, which seemed to be the most basic (£0.99 - I love Amazon secondhand section!) I feel for your DH re. PESA. My DH is also tall and faints whenever he has his blood pressure done  Luckily he is not so squeamish when it comes to me otherwise EC and ET would be difficult!

Natasha- that is really fascinating about your conversations with your husband and changing the way you asked the question! I am struggling a bit at the moment with slight obsessive-compulsive behavior (basically checking I have turned things off, shut doors, etc etc) which I always get when I am feeling under pressure. It's not in itself a big deal (although it does make me late for things  ) but does mean I get generally more and more anxious. I was thinking maybe hypnotherapy could help with decreasing levels of anxiety, so it's interesting to hear that it has worked for you. 

Lots of love to all

xx


----------



## SusieB20

Hi all

Thanks for your messages - Natasha, I know exactly what you mean as I expected to feel so jubilant (which I did which I got the result) but that soon got taken over by anxiety about the next 10 weeks. I've booked in weekly acupuncture and some days off work and I will do my best to relax as much as possible.

With regards to the immune issue: I had no idea I had any problems, although we had been trying naturally for 18 months with no success and all other tests came back fine (and we did probably every test available). Then a random visit to the doctor for a rash on my finger saw me sent off for immune tests - there was nothing majorly wrong with me health-wise but I got a positive result for antinuclear antibodies so I saw a specialist in immune issues for fertility where I had yet more tests and found that I also have above normal natural killer cells, which means that my immune system is overenthusiastic and was probably attacking any embryos that had fertilised naturally. So I'm on steriods and a blood-thinning injection until 12 weeks, which suppress my immune system. The immune area is all new and sometimes controversial but there's a very good thread on here called 'guide to immune testing in the UK' which will tell you everything you need to know and more - it's almost like a new language with all the terms and acronyms. There are some quite radical treatments out there that I wasn't really ready to try so I am hoping and praying that if I've got this far then I can make it all the way. When I saw a nutritionist at Zita West she mentioned that women who have glandular fever in childhood quite often have immune issues (which I did) and generally don't get ill very often (which I don't). On her advice I'm taking strong probiotics as a lot of the immune system is based in the gut and they might help regulate it. I've also read that natural killer cells often increase when stressed so I have to keep as calm as possible! So I'm just taking it day by day.

Sorry there's no time for personals but we're leaving for Cornwall first thing and I haven't packed yet. Will write again when I'm back on Monday

Have a good weekend all

xxx


----------



## Buffy68

Hello all

Creative Visualisation was Shakti Gawain's first book and a good introduction to her work.  I would recommend you work through the chapter called "Clearing" to start with.  

I wanted to share a tool with you all that I've found very good for clearing residual negative emotion.  It was invented by John Gray (of Mars and Venus fame) and is called a feeling letter.  Basically you write a letter (that you'll never post) and you start off saying "I am angry that..." and you just write all the things you are angry about until you run out of things.  Then you do the same for:

I am sad that...
I am afraid that...
I am sorry that... (in this context expressing regret rather than guilt)
I want...

Then you start being more positive:

I now understand that...
I forgive...(only relevant if you are cross with someone)
I am happy that...
I love....
I feel confident that...
I feel grateful for...

I have found this technique very effective indeed.  It is in his book "How to get what you want and want what you have".


----------



## Buffy68

Susie/Natasha/cswg - I was wondering whether any of you experienced any implantation bleeding or cramps?  Did you know you were positive before doing the test?  I'm sure the others reading would be interested to hear too.  I'm sorry to hear about the anxiety you are feeling generally about pregnancy but I suppose it's inevitable when one has to work so hard to make it happen in the first place.  I am sure hypnotherapy will help.  Also I think you should just take one day at a time rather than worry about next week or month.  Easier said than done I know.

Annabell - glad to hear your follie is looking good - definitely start the wee sticks - I've had surges at 13mm at least three times which is exasperating.  (And which is why I prefer to use the Cetrotide, which stops the surge coming too early.)  I totally understand the obsessive compulsive thing - I always have to go back and check locked doors at night, sometimes 4 or 5 times.  I used to have to tap my foot (or other parts of my body) 3 times at intervals to make sure everything would be OK.  Completely nuts.

Susie - I'm glad to hear your immune issues don't interfere too much with you day to day health and also that you've found someone who can help with the fertility and pregnancy issues.

Clare - hope you're taking it easy and keeping a relaxed state of mind


----------



## cwsg

buffy... yes i had a tiny spot of implatation bleeding and lots of cramps, but not really the same as perod pains. I did feel pregnant, but didn't allow myself to think either way.

cwsg


----------



## ClareTG

Hello everyone!

Firstly Susie - CONGRATULATIONS!!!! That is such good news - gives us all a boost of optimism too that we're at the right place for results! Hope you have/had a good weekend in Cornwall (will you be telling family?) & manage to take it a day at a time. Give yourself credit for getting this far too - you've already clocked up 4 weeks. Hope all goes really well for the next 35 (sorry - break that down into small chunks!)

Re: the Immune issues. That's really interesting. I think i was in denial for a long time about needing IVF as we went through the routine NHS tests - nothing unusual came back - then i saw a more alternative guy (Trevor Wing) who adhered to the chinese medicine view of things so took lots of herbal medicine as well as having all sorts of high-tech tests (checking the correct staging of womb lining, post-coital test to check the pH of my discharge was receptive to DH's sperm - all sorts!). The last thing he checked was immune. There was evidence of slightly raised NK cells so decided to treat it the alternative way which was taking a course of mushroom tablets instead of the usual steroid method. He seemed to think this would rectify the problem for a good couple of years. After still not getting pregnant we admitted defeat & thought i'd see a surgeon about addressing the fibroid issue. Which is when my endometriosis was found. So i have no idea if the immune thing was an issue or if it was really the endo all along. Not sure that will sway you either way Lulu? Though that other thread Susie mentions might be worth a look (if it's not too mind-boggling)

cwsg - i love knowing if people feel/know/see any signs before testing. Did you suspect the bleeding was implantation? I've not had any signs like that - but obviously everyone's different &I'm trying my best not to read into every twinge I feel. 

Buffy - thanks for the tool for clearing emotion - might well try that later. I'm home alone this weekend & am determined to spoil myself especially after a couple of stressy days at work. Really petty stuff - the same recurring problem with too many middle managers not knowing my job but thinking they're the experts! They make me feel like i'm being told off like a naughty school girl (I'm 36!) & as i feel the adrenalin flush, i'm silently cursing them for putting my body under strain - hope i didn't release too many stress hormones. Rationally i can explain it as their insecurities but wish i could care a lot less about it.

Anyway hope to take my mind off it this weekend & picture those little embies nestling into the lining! Hope Create are on a success roll right now!

Annabell - 13mm follie is coming along nicely. You're prepared for the long pee stick wait - hope it's not too long. Bring on the smiley face.

Natasha - i have the same paranoia about number 2s! All that downward motion i'm often convincing myself that everything must be dropping out. IN fact on the way to the FET, having already been for a no2, i felt the familiar cramps & had the fear that at the very least i'd be emitting unpleasant smells during the FET or i'd have to go after & undo all the good work. I had to run straight to their loo - & i hate having to do a no2 in a public loo. TMI everyone sorry!  My test date is this friday - eek. It felt quite far off until just now.

Flowergirl - thanks for the info - poor DH! At least he'll feel like he's participating as much as you in the treatment. I felt like DH has been so much more onboard & supportive since he's being doing his bit for IVF - and he's not even had to go through any invasive proceedures.

Dora - i think Annabell's right on the fluctuating results of sperm test. Do let us know what Geeta says.

Have lovely weekends everyone. I'd better get out in the sunshine.


----------



## NatashaM

Hi Everyone,

Susie - hope you have a lovely time in Cornwall.

Buffy - thanks for the info and the letter idea. I think it looks really useful. I did something similar when I was doing a structured recovery group for something very difficult that happened to me a few years ago. Had to write letters to everyone I was angry with and then release the anger and have a new mantra of not holding on to the blame any more - write one for each person and repeat it every day.

I didn't have any implantation bleeding. I didn't really have any cramps until after testing, and then they were pretty bad - and lots of trapped wind/constipation. I felt a lot calmer about the outcome this time. I did feel quite positive and like it had worked (a little part of me didn't though). About a week after embryo transfer we went up to Gloucestershire for a wedding and I was lying in bed and I felt something in my tummy, I don't even think it was my uterus though, because it was higher up but it felt like a little pulse or someone pulling a fine thread inside me and I know some other women have said they've felt a pulling or tugging sensation.

Also I normally spot for 2-3 days before coming on and I didn't spot at all (well, not til later).

Clare - I'm glad I'm not the only one to have that fear! It is total balls though. I had work stress during my two week wait and it didn't do me any harm. Had to write a defence to Ofcom of a programme I'd complied and my boss made me feel like a right tw*t for it (I did get us off though, so...) and I am 36 as well. I hope next week passes quickly and peacefully for you. We're always here anytime you want to chat or vent or anything. Good luck for Friday. 

Love to all,
N xx


----------



## SusieB20

Hi all

We're back from Cornwall now - what a miserable day to be travelling in! Lovely DH did all the driving as it would have made me too anxious as I'm a nervous driver at the best of times, let alone when it's pouring, windy and lots of spray on the road. It was nice to get away for a few days though and my family all know the situation so I didn't have to lift a finger the whole weekend!

Buffy - I didn't get any implanation bleeding but did have cramps and my stomach is very swollen (although whether that's from the drugs I don't know). I had a lot of hope that it had worked but really didn't know until the day (and it took so long to get the result - I did the blood test at 8.30am and heard back at 4pm - that I'd convinced myself that it was a negative result until Lakshmi told me the news!). I've had a few twinges and cramps today which I've been told is normal and I've also been very blocked up (is it the progesterone that does this?) - plums or prune juice seems to help though.

Clare - that's interesting what you said about the mushroom tablets as my acupuncturist told me the same thing - it's something to bear in mind for the future. I agree with Natasha about the whole stress thing as it's impossible not to get stressed at a time like this and I'm sure you've done no harm. Are you doing a blood test or HPT on Friday? Will be thinking of you   

Annabell - how did the scan go today?

Dora and Flowergirl - welcome to the thread (sorry for not saying that sooner!) - hope all is going well with you both

Love to all xxx


----------



## annabell99

Hi All!

I have had a bit of a manic day - at the scan this morning the follie had grown HUGE (although no positive pee sticks) so they did blood tests and even though it is only day 10 today I now have EC booked for Wednesday. 

Embarassingly I got totally freaked out because a) I wasn't expecting EC until at least Friday so it was a bit a of a shock and b) they didn't have any Ovitrelle for the trigger injection (which I have used the last two times) so they wanted me to use Pregnyl.. when I saw that you have to break glass vial things I panicked  which I know is TOTALLY ridiculous but I just thought I would somehow end up injecting bits of glass into myself  . Luckily they had Ovitrelle at Harley St so I went there and picked it up. Now I'm a bit embarassed because they must think I'm totally loopy.

I have to do the injection at 1.30 am tomorrow morning   . I'm worried that because the timing is so different to previous cycles (EC on day 16) the egg won't be ready but I guess we have to wait and see.  

Buffy- thanks for the tools for getting rid of negative emotion! I want to try the letter idea but I suspect it will be pretty traumatic so I might wait until after EC. The Creative Visualisation book arrived this morning, I haven't had a chance to look at it yet but I will tomorrow. I totally understand about checking the door, I have a whole list of things that I need to check before bedtime, and often I get stuck in a loop checking the same things over and over. I read that a good way to think is "I have spent as much care doing XX (eg door checking) as any reasonable person would and so I can leave it now" - I have found thinking this helps a bit.

Clare- I hope you are well and managing to keep calm!   I had the no. 2 paranoia too - in fact after my first ET I thought I had managed to immediately lose the embryo because I was so desperate for the loo straight away - I remember the look on Geeta's face when I asked was it possible to wee an embryo out  

Susie- I'm glad you had a good weekend!

Lots of love to all

xx


----------



## 2Flowergirl

Hi Ladies,

Susie -  big congrats - well done!!!   

Buffy, I did get impantation bleeding when I was pregnant with my daughter (3 days before AF was due) and had the worse period like pains ever...took a ton of Nurofen for a week before because had quite bad pain and didn't suspect I was pregnant.

Annabell - good luck with the EC!!  

Clare - yes I agree don't worry about the twinge. 

Natasha M - yes, stangely when you find out you are pregnant you are overjoyed but then you do start to worry.... until 12 weeks I thought ever twinge was the end  But I think it is quite normal to worry as it is all new, I would imagine that after the stress of going through IVF  it is even harder to stop fretting.... 

Dora3 - Yes I am a bit forum phobic but after reading this site for several weeks, everyone seemed friendly & supportive and I think its so important to share experiences when going through the IVF TTC journey!

Good luck ladies x


----------



## Buffy68

Thanks for all the stories about early pregnancy symptoms - or lack of them.  It's interesting how no two stories are exactly the same.

Annabell -   sorry to hear you have been feeling a bit panicky - it's not easy to stay calm when the goalposts keep moving!  They didn't have any Ovitrelle in early November either so I had to take Pregnyl home, although I didn't use it because the surge came earlier than expected.  Day 12 for EC is well within the boundaries of normal ovulation time so I am sure the odds are good for a decent egg, even if previously it's been on day 16.  I'll be thinking of you tomorrow in your furry socks    I am sure you are right to wait for a calmer period before you try any clearing excercises.

Clare -    for your test on Friday.  

Love to all
Buffy


----------



## ClareTG

Eek i'm feeling really tense as friday approaches - it feels easier to remain positive the nearer you are to ET as you have something tangible to hold on to, & i feel my PMA ebbing away as the test date gets closer. Yesterday i was worried that there was too little sign of anything going on  & today i sneezed & thought the high pressure would dislodge any implanting embryos. Oh dear oh dear - this is torture! i'm almost too scared to test - obviously by friday i'll have driven myself mad enough to want to know either way.

Annabel - good luck for tomorrow. That's great that your follie's doing so well even if it is a bit unexpected. I'm sure it'll be lovely & ripe. Our bodies know when they're being monitored & like to keep us guessing. Hope you got the injection done ok.

Susie - i'm going to do the test at home on friday evening i think - it was too traumatic getting the negative call at work last time.

Hope everyone's well

xxx


----------



## annabell99

Hi all. 
Bad news for me I'm afraid- no egg in the follicle. Apparantly there is always a 10% chance of this with  natural cycle. I am really disappointed.  
Sorry this is a short message, still dopey from sedation.
Lots of love to all
xx


----------



## cwsg

Annabel,

sorry to hear your news,tis happened to me the first time. It was devastating because i didnt know what it ment. But the next time was fine.

It's alot of money wasted though.

It doesnt mean that you have any problem with your eggs.

cwsg


----------



## Buffy68

Annabell -    I am sure you must be feeling very disappointed and frustrated.  This happened to me once too.  You know it means nothing about your fertility, right?  I don't think anyone produces an egg every cycle.  Have a good cry and remember New Year is a great time for a new start.  You've really got to be tough to do this haven't you?

Clare - I feel for you.  Have you tried doing some slow, deep breaths when you find yourself getting uptight?  I am sure a home test is a good idea.

love to all
Buffy
xx


----------



## NatashaM

Oh Annabell - I am so sorry, what a horrible disappointment.   I hope you are in a position to try again very soon and that this doesn't get you down too much. It is ok to be upset and angry though - and natural. Don't deny any of your feelings but acknowledge them and deal with them and then move forward. Remember this is just one more step towards the day you become a mum; and you will get there.

Clare - as test day approaches it is natural to be more nervous and agitated. Again, there are no 'wrong' or 'right' feelings, there are just feelings, so don't beat yourself up about not being totally zen about everything. I think, having done both, that testing at home is far less stressful than going up to Harley St.

(((big hugs))) to everyone.

N xx


----------



## annabell99

Hi all-

Thanks for the messages, it makes a big difference! I nearly didn't bother getting up today because I feel so totally fed up with everything but I know that isn't going to help  

I had a think last night about what exactly the doc said and as far as I can work out it seems that there had been an egg in the follicle at some point (because I had LH and E2 blood tests on Mon which showed ovulation was coming up).  

The doc said either it was stuck really tightly to the wall of the follicle or it had degenerated and wasn't there any more. Does anyone know what these things mean? Degenerated sounds bad.

Clare good luck for tomorrow    I hope you are staying calm xx

Lots of love to all

xx


----------



## Buffy68

Hi Annabell

The egg adheres to the wall just before ovulation.  I suppose sometimes it adheres a bit too strongly and won't come away with EC.

When I had my abnormal egg in October I was told it had degenerated.  As you say, it doesn't sound very nice.  Apparantly it just means that it starts to mature properly (hence all the blood test results) but for some reason stops before it is finished and then just starts to degenerate.  Pretty common apparantly.  When they do a stimulated cycle there's often an egg or two like that among the others.  It's a pain they can't tell before EC what's in there as it would save an unnecessary procedure and quite a lot of money!

At least you can get them to knock the cost for the ICSI and ET you didn't have off your next cycle so you haven't lost all your money.

Look after yourself, and remember it's only a temporary set-back.


----------



## Sunshine42

Hello ladies,

My first time on here...
I'm too at Create, went for first EC on Tues with natural cycle, and no egg. Also my first IVF cycle, so not feeling great about it. 

Been reading your messages for a month or so, so much support and caring between you, hope you don't mind me gatecrashing!

Good luck to you all.


----------



## SusieB20

Annabell -    I'm so sorry. Hope you take some time to work through the disappointment and then can look forward to a fresh try in the new year - easier said than done I'm sure. As Buffy mentioned, this can happen in a stimulated cycle as well - out of the 6 follicles I had, only 3 eggs were collected so this is probably quite common, just harder to deal with in a natural cycle

Sunshine - welcome to the thread - sorry to hear your news. I've found this thread to be incredibly kind and supportive and I hope it's of help to you

Clare - very best of luck for tomorrow, have got everything crossed for you    

Lots of love to all xxxx


----------



## annabell99

Thanks Buffy, it helps a lot to know that it is normal and "degenerate" doesn't mean something sinister! I really do think you are very brave- you have faced so many of these issues (no egg, "degenerate" egg etc) and you still stay so calm and determined and you always provide such rational and helpful explanations! I really appreciate it xx

Sunshine- I'm so sorry you had the same issue, and it must be really frustrating because it was your first time    Welcome to the thread, and of course you are not gatecrashing. What do you plan to do next? DH and I are still discussing options (another natural cycle, because we don't feel this one was "a proper go", or mild IVF). It is frustrating that we will probably have to wait until the end of Jan to try again due to timing over Xmas.

Susie- Thank you! How are you feeling? I hope you are less anxious and all is going well  

Natasha- I really love your "one more step to becoming a mum" approach, it means that even the events which seem pointless and frustrating have a purpose. Thank you so much for saying I will get there, it means a lot to hear it!

cwsg- Thank you too! It's good to know that it doesn't mean it will happen again next time.

Clare - I hope you are ok, wishing you all the luck possible for tomorrow!  

Lots of love to everyone

xx


----------



## lulumead

hello sunshine, welcome to our lovely group    Sorry to hear no egg, sending you lots of   for a big juicy one next time  

Annabell: I'm sure degenerate eggs are really common, the more we do this stuff the more random it seems to how it all works!  It just doesn't help when it all costs so much so feels so pressured.

Clare good luck with testing  

Buffy, Susie, CWSG, Natasha, Dora and flowergirl love to you all too...hope I didn't miss anyone  

xx


----------



## cwsg

nice that this thread has become  so positive, when i first joined fertility friends, the create thread was full of negativity and distrust. That thread was taken off and we started this one.

cwsg


----------



## NatashaM

Hi Everyone,

Clare - Thinking of you today and hoping for good news for you tonight. 

Annabell - Hope you are feeling a little better  . I'm glad Buffy and CSWG were able to explain a little more, and that it is fairly common but not an indication that there is anything out of the ordinary going on.

Sunshine - welcome to the thread. It's good to have you here. I'm really sorry that there was no egg for you either this time. 

CSWG - Yes, it is really good that we're all pulling together, supporting each other and sharing information. I wish I'd done more than just lurk when I was having my treatment.

I hope you are all looking forward to nice relaxing weekends. How are you doing with your Christmas preparations? I've done most of my shopping and we're going to my mum's for Christmas day so I don't have to think about cooking dinner this year.

I will check in tonight to see how Clare got on. Lots of love to you all but Clare especially as today is so very important for her.

N xxx


----------



## annabell99

Hi everyone-

Thanks Lulu, you're right there is more and more to learn all the time. I am now amazed that anyone ever gets pregnant naturally  ! You're right that the cost is a large part of what causes the pressure, it's a shame that it has to be that way.

Natasha- I am feeling a bit better today thank you. I went to have my nails done yesterday and I chose the brightest pink they had - it's so bright it nearly glows. I know it's only a silly little thing but it is funny how it cheers me up.

I've done most of my shopping too- just my dad left to get a present for. Dads are so difficult to buy things for! We're going home to mum and dad's this year which I'm really looking forward to. I have lots of siblings and this is the first year for a while that we've all been home for Christmas so it should be fun.

Lots of love to all - Clare I'm thinking of you today 

xx


----------



## ClareTG

Hello everyone

I did a little post yesterday but it got lost - boo. 

Anyway my news.....
  It's only blimin positive!! 

can't believe it - even when i was buying the test today i had to buy sanitary towels as i was so fed up & convinced i couldn't be! I've never ever got this far before, so i'm stunned & of course delighted!

Thanks to everyone on here for all the advise & positivity & kind thoughts - i'm sure it's all helped contribute to this amazing result. Create must be on a roll now - and i'm sending out the best luck to all of you - it's your turn next!!

Annabell - hope your pink nails see you over this blip. If it helps make up your mind, I like Susie had a couple of eggs that they never harvested when it came to EC - obviously so much disappointment when that egg happens to be the one you're relying on. Roll on January for you (with a nice relaxing christmas in between)

This thread has THE most supportive people on it - hopefully i'll carry on being one of them too!

Welcome Sunshine - sorry about your egg - hope you carry on stronger & get there next time.

BIG LOVE TO ALL.

Wow someone pinch me!

xxx


----------



## NatashaM

YES!!!  Fantastic news.

I really had a feeling it was going to be a positive, I don't know why. So happy for you. Massive congratulations. 

xxx


----------



## annabell99

yay that is such good news!!!! Congratulations!!!

Xxx


----------



## SusieB20

Brilliant news Clare - CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!    

Create are definitely on a roll!

xxxxx


----------



## lulumead

yippeeeeee Clare, what lovely news    

xxx


----------



## cwsg

many congratulations Clare   

cwsg


----------



## ClareTG

Thank you everyone!

I had some spotting this morning but remember Natasha saying she'd had some so trying not to obsess about it - of course i did another test just to make sure!

We put up our tree & decs yesterday so starting to feel nice & christmasy!

My poor cat has come in limping this morning so i think we're off to the emergency vet in a moment (getting her in the cat basket is not great at the best of times let alone when she's growling in pain - should be fun).


----------



## Buffy68

Congratulations, Clare, that's wonderful news.    It's such a good reminder to the rest of us, too, that it *can* be done.  It looks like you didn't have any symptoms at all.  Was there any cramping?

I hope your cat is OK.

Annabell, I hope you're feeling a bit more cheery.  Your time will come. 

Christmas preparations: I'm still in the middle of buying presents for extended family members and not looking forward to wrapping them all.  We have bought a tree and it is sitting in a bucket of water in the garage right now.  Hope to bring it indoors today.  I have bought the Christmas cards but not written them yet.  My throat is feeling quite a lot better now.  I gave up milk and milk products and it seems to be helping and the doctor has given me a spray to reduce mucous which apparantly is inflamming my tonsils and glands.  If I continue to feel better I'll probably have another go at natural cycle sometime in January as my next ovulation will probably be around Christmastime.

I think Lulu has a point about the randomness of it all.  We want hard facts about why things happen one month and not another but maybe it is just the roll of the die.

Hello Sunshine.  I'm sorry to hear you got no egg your first time, I'm sure it doesn't mean anything about your fertility.  It's another of those random events.  Are you going to try again in January too?

love to all
Buffy
xx


----------



## Sunshine42

Hello Ladies, (not yet got to grip with all the names 

Clare - many congratulations, you must be so thrilled...  how exciting!  

So wonderful to read this thread, I hadn't been on for a couple of days. Thanks to you all for your thoughts and comments, I must admit I was/am terrified that no egg at EC means my one ovary has given up on me (I must work out how to put my details on here), but it almost seems a common occurance every now and then. I would love to try a mild rather than natural IVF next time, which could give me an option of 2 or 3 eggs maybe, but my FSH is at 16.5 and I need to get it lower somehow.

Buffy - gonna try again in late Jan, my cycle doesn't work out for the xmas period, seems weeks away but hopefully it will come around quickly. Got to get strong again, my emotions seem all over the place, one minute ok, the next crying non stop.

Christmas to look forward to in the meantime... playing santa next weekend, delivering presents to my many siblings and families.

Sending lots of positive vibes to you all,

Sunshine x


----------



## ClareTG

Sounds like there might be a few of you trying again in January then - hope there's lots more Create success in the new year.

I phoned Create today & have my scan booked for 29th December. 

I'm still in a state of disbelief really. I don't feel magically different - obviously it's very early still. But i do think of all the time I've spent over the past years looking out for possible clues of pregnancy almost to the point of superstition & almost imagining a visionary 6th sense. And yet i was more convinced this time that it hadn't worked than the Mild IVF attempt.

Right now i have no real cramps to speak of (perhaps really really mild ones - but my periods could be nasty) - all i'm really noticing is feeling like i'm about to come on - if not quite a dragging sensation then something similar & my stomach has bloated up PMT-style in the last couple of days.  Apart from that, there's no real big symptoms.

(Buffy thanks for asking - the cat is now fine & totally embarrassed us at the vets by running around as normal - glad to see her back to her old self!).


----------



## 2Flowergirl

Hi Ladies,

Sorry been very busy only just had a chance to catch up......

ClareTG, wonderful news!!!! Big Congrats!   

Annabell, thoughts with you, roll on January!  

Sunshine42 & Buffy - stay strong - here's to Jan!!!!  

And a big Merry Christmas & may 2010 be a great year for everyone!!!!   

Luckily we don't have to do PESA/TESA but DH will have to do several samples (8 weeks apart) and they will be frozen in advance...so we probably won't be starting until March/April next year.

xxx


----------



## Buffy68

Morning ladies

Hope everyone is well and not too stressed about Christmas planning on top of everything else.  

Sunshine - you sound like you're in a similar boat to me!  Did you know that having only one ovary skews the results of the fsh tests?  I'm not sure how reliable they are anyway as they seem to go up and down from month to month.  Chinese herbs are the only thing I've come across that can bring them down but I wouldn't get too hung up on blood test results, they are only a small part of the picture.  And I'm sure that you can't made a judgement on your ovary from one single failed EC.

Clare - hope everything goes well with your scan.     Very exciting.  Susie - have you had yours yet?

Flowergirl - wishing you lots of patience!!  At least you have plenty of time to take all the right supplements to nurture your potential eggs.

I was wondering whether you pregnant ladies noticed any difference in your breasts, such as getting sore breasts when normally you don't feel anything or vice versa.  

Annabell - are you OK, you're very quiet!!


----------



## lulumead

hello all,

how's everyone doing?  I have only to get through tomorrow and then I have two weeks off...yippeeee...am also very impressed as am going to see Geeta on the NHS on wednesday, so all good.

Just a quick question as I'm thinking about my next options whether to do IUI or natural IVF...who has had success with natural rather than mild and if so how many goes did it take

I'm thinking that the stim drugs might not be helping me although I produce good embryos, something is not right as they don't stick a about...could be immune issues but not convinced about the science of this...any thoughts?

Thanks all.

Hoping for lots of bumps on here in 2010, then we can have a create bumps thread  

xx


----------



## annabell99

Hi all!

Hope everyone is well and enjoying the run-up to christmas!

Clare- good luck for your scan on the 29th and really pleased to hear your cat is ok! My (very much loved) cat is a total git when it comes to the vet - last summer he was limping a lot and generally being pitiful and yet when I took him to the vet he bounced around the surgery like a member of the olympic gymnastic team. I wonder if they just do it for entertainment   

Buffy- Glad to hear your throat is getting better!   My mum only has one ovary (due to a very bad ectopic) and I am one of 6 children so absolute proof that one ovary is all it takes.  Sorry for being quiet, I just needed a few days away from thinking about all this I think. I am constantly amazed though at how it is possible to bounce back - last week was awful but now I'm quite happy to start thinking about the next attempt. Are you going to be trying again in Jan?

Sunshine- don't worry it doesn't reflect on your ovary and it will fine next time   The doc said to me that the chance of not getting an egg was about 10% so I am looking at it as now VERY unlikely to happen again, it's almost like you have got that particular issue "out of the way". I think I will be trying again late Jan as well as unless I have a freak cycle Xmas and New Year are likely to be in the way this month.

Flowergirl - happy to hear you don't have to do the PESA/TESA!  It's a shame you have a while to wait but it will come round really quickly.

Lulu - Happy to hear that your NHS appointment came through so quickly! I hope it goes well, I will be thinking of you because the HSG can be a pig - I think you can take Nurofen beforehand?
We've had two "perfect" embies with natural IVF which didn't stick, unfortunately I don't think that helps with your decision because it implies that it may not be the drugs causing the lack of stickiness. I am thinking of it as a numbers issue rather than worrying about immune etc at the moment- the chance of any one embie sticking is quite low. I don't know offhand what the difference in cost is now between IUI and natural and obviously that may influence the decision but I would think it must be more frustrating to try IUI becuase you don't even know if you got an embryo each time?

I hope everyone is well and apologies if I have missed anyone! I have to go to do Xmas shopping now but it is so cold outside I would really rather not...

Lots of love to all

xx


----------



## SusieB20

Hi all

Hope you're all doing well.

I had my 6-week scan with Lakshmi this afternoon which feels like reaching a little milestone (I've done 5 pregnancy tests in the past week to reassure myself that there was still something there!). She found two sacs and could see the egg yolk in one of them but hard to tell if there's anything in the second so going back on Wednesday next week. I feel so incredibly fortunate to even have one baby growing well but I'm still rooting for the second one in case it's viable. Symptoms so far are increasing tiredness, sore breasts (but they do vary day to day and sometimes aren't tender at all for several hours - you can tell I do a lot of checking of this as well!) and a bit of nausea so having to eat smaller meals more regularly and that seems to sort it. Fingers crossed that the next 6 weeks go well and then hopefully I will feel more relaxed about it.

Lulu - hard to know what to say as everyone has had such different experiences and so much seems to come down to luck. Immune tests are very expensive so that's maybe only a route that you want to explore if you're really ready for it, the only thing I can say from what happened for me is that DH and I should have been textbook for having no problems conceiving but over the course of 20 months of actively trying that didn't happen. Whether IVF alone would have been enough I don't know, maybe it's the drugs that I'm taking as well. Sorry, this probably doesn't help make your mind up much. Not sure if you've said before, but would you try a new donor to see if there's a better 'fit'? Don't know if there's any science behind that mind you. Hope the appt with Geeta goes well.

Flowergirl - that's good news about the TESA and as the others say, lots of time to get dosed up on your supplements

Clare - hope you're feeling well and taking things easy - good luck for your scan

Annabell - glad to hear you've taken the time to get through the disappointment and ready yourself for trying again. The courage and resiliance of the girls on this and other threads never ceases to amaze me, especially when they're also so supportive of others. It's very difficult for friends / family who don't have fertility issues to understand just what this rollercoaster ride is like so I'm so pleased I found this website

Natasha - are you well?

Sorry if I've missed anyone out, will try to update after next week's scan but in case anyone's having a break from the site for Xmas then I wish you all a wonderful time and lots of BFPs in 2010

xxx


----------



## NatashaM

Hi All,

Clare - Hope things are still going well. Glad to hear that the cat is ok. 

Buffy - Hope the throat is continuing to improve. As to your question about boobs, um - I didn't really notice any difference to be honest, and I had really expected to so I was surprised at the lack of symptoms. 

Sunshine - it is totally understandable about your mood being all over the place, really don't worry about it. I'm sure you will ride it out and be in a better place to try again come January.

Lulu - I've never tried natural, only mild and was successful with a frozen embryo rather than a fresh one. Hope your NHS appt with Geeta goes well and is helpful. 

Flowergirl - In a way it is good to have a few months to build up to it. You can really get in tip top health. I didn't drink at all for a couple of months before my successful embryo transfer, and went to gym and ate loads of greens.

Annabell - So impressed with your resilience. It is great to hear that you've bounced back. 

Susie - Fantastic news about your scan. It would be lovely if you were carrying twins, but one is wonderful and amazing enough. I hope the next 6 weeks pass quickly and without any drama.

I've been fine. I'm coming up to 27 weeks now. I've noticed it is harder to get tights and shoes on, more difficult to sleep and I've really been getting a lot of acid reflux. I am still incredibly happy though, and it is lovely to feel him kick and move. My dad is arriving from Italy on Tuesday and I haven't seen him since Jan so really looking forward to that (had a couple of days fretting over the BA strike but that's been cancelled now, thank goodness). I've finished college and placement so I can take it easy now. 

Lots of love to each and every one of you.

N xxx


----------



## Jbre

Hi ladies,

I was wondering if you can help me? After years of trying and lots of tests and heartache we've had the last few months as time out and we are starting to feel 'normal' again! Recently the baby niggles have been coming back with a vengeance!

We were diagnosed with male factor infertility in May and at that time our Consultant recommended ivf, although I wasn't keen with it because of the drugs used and my family history of cancer. Recently I heard about natural/mild ivf and came across the Create Clinic. My husband and I are hoping to try natural ivf with them next summer as they seem very good.

The only problem is that we live in Edinburgh, although we are very lucky and can stay in a flat in London when we need to, I was just wondering about the logistics. How many times will I need to travel down roughly? Or would we need to stay down for a period of time and if so how long? Any other advice is really appreciated.

Thanks you for your help!


----------



## Buffy68

Hello ladies

JBre - I think you are very wise to try mild or natural under the circumstances.  I have only tried natural or controlled.  You have your first scan around day 5 then scan every 2nd or 3rd day until time for egg collection around day 12-16.  2 or 3 days after that is embryo transfer if all goes well.  The timings might be different if you tended to ovulate early or late.  If you have the time I would stay in London rather than travel to and from Edinburgh.

Natasha - glad to hear you are happy despite the acid reflux and other symptoms.  At least you know they are only for a short period.

Susie - glad to hear that your 6 week scan went well and you were reassured.  Maybe now you can stop taking the pregnancy tests?  (I am sure I would be just as bad.)  I think you've done really well to have 2 sacs!  I hope the scan on Wednesday shows activity in both of them and also that your nausea stays within manageable limits.

Annabell - glad to hear you are OK and thanks for telling me about your mother.  I am sure motherhood has even more peaks and troughs than trying to get pregnant in the first place so think of it as good training!!!  

I am hoping to try again in January assuming I am back to good health then.  My AF started on Tuesday so I expect I'll be ovulating this cycle around Christmas/New Year time.  I think a few of us might be going for scans in the second half of January.

Lulu - good luck with your appointment with Geeta.  I hope you find it reassuring.  It's probably a good idea to try without the stims just to see if that is the issue.

Here's to lots of 2010 babies


----------



## 2Flowergirl

Hi ladies,

A brief hello as I have a throat infection and feel awful, on antibiotics...

NatashaM - Thanks for advice and have a lovely relaxing xmas with your dad - put your feet up!

Buffy - Yes when I go to see Geeta next I will ask about supplements - and I had no sore boobs at all throughout my pregnancy with my daughter, they just went up a size from the 2nd trimester....! 

Lulu - masses of good luck for your NHS go at Create!  

Annabel - happy xmas shopping! 

Susie - Fantastic news - hopefully 2 babies on board!!!  

JBre - We also chose Create for the same reasons (lower drugs dosage and family history of cancer), I too initially rejected doing IVF until I came across Create.  I was recommended to go to Create by a friend who has a friend who had 2 successful IVF's with Geeta in the past after failure elsewhere, so we are happy with our decision to go down the mild route!  Hope you are able to sort out the travelling logistics from Scotland!!  I have read a Create success story with a 1st successful attempt at IVF/ICSI with Male Factor...so good luck 
Wishing everyone a wonderful Christmas!

xxx


----------



## ClareTG

Hey everyone

Last weekend before xmas - hoorah.

Flowergirl - hope you get well soon & are better for xmas

Lulu - good luck for weds. I remember the HSG being a uncomfortable/crampy -hope  it goes ok - great that you've got Geeta. I suppose the results of that will influence the IUI vs natural IVF decision too? I'm in the same boat as Natasha having done the mild IVF without success, but (so far) a sticky positive with the FET. I did wonder if the lack of drugs helped - even though statistically frozen embies are not as successful as fresh ones. Perhaps the fact it's a more laidback cycle with less to do helps in some way.  Right now I can only think it's a matter of doing what we have to do to get some embryos in prime position & then getting lucky?

Susie - very good news about your scan  one is perfect - 2 would be a double helping of perfect! Hope your scan on wednesday illuminates things. I completely identify with you about doing the tests - i've only done 2 so far, but am so lacking in symptoms that I feel the urge to do another to make sure I still am. I do have to remind myself that i've not had a period. Am I about 10 days /2 weeks behind you? 

Buffy - it's still so early fo rme but i'm really not experiencing any symptoms so far  - i did have spotting for 2 days (which seemed lighter & a different shade to the spotting i get before periods), but that was about 2/3 days after the test.

JBre - glad you're considering Create - there's lots of us to recommend it! I have a friend who has done a couple of attmepts of full on IVF on the NHS & both times she reacted badly to the drugs - getting itchy skin for weeks which makes you wonder what it does to our bodies. So i'd heartily recommend the mild route - it works! Hope you manage to sort out the logistics to make it worth it.

Natasha - 27 weeks eh? Wow. Make sure your Dad & DH look after you lots this xmas - must feel good to get your 1st placement out of the way. I have to say I'm finding it easier to cope with the silly self-important world of TV with my secret new perspective!

Annabell - Glad your cat is as temperamental as mine! And as Susie & Natasha say your resilience is really inspirational. It really is a tough rollercoaster ride - definitely have to count our lucky stars that we have the support & courage of this thread - we're all ace! 

Love to all - sorry to anyone i've missed.

have lovely weekends

xxxx


----------



## NatashaM

Hi JBre,

I wrote a really long and detailed reply to your post and then I accidentally clicked on 'back' and lost it all. Grr.

I think mild or natural would be a great idea for you. I'd err towards mild because you have a better chance of it working as all your test results are normal but I do understand the concerns you have about the cancer risk. I'd keep an open mind and discuss it with them when you speak to them.

They are having an open day on the 16th Jan if you can get down - details here: http://www.createhealth.org/Events.htm

I worked it out that apart from your inital consultation you'd actually need to stay in London for between 17 and 21 days while you were having the treatment because they need to scan you every other day from day 5 of your cycle (the day your period starts is day one) until you are about ready to ovulate. Then you have to have the egg/s collected and THEN you have to wait either 3 or 5 days for the embryos/blastocysts to grow and be replaced.

I hope that doesn't come as too much of a shock - it does seem a long time to spend away from home, I know.

You could always just start off by giving them a ring and having a chat with one of the nurses - they are really helpful.

All the best to you,
N x

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----------



## Jbre

Thank you so much for your kind advice everyone it's really appreciated. Me and hubby are having a tough time over the festive period, especially as most of our close friends are either pregnant or have newborn babies   Knowing we can try natural/mild ivf gives us so much hope. Hopefully 2010 wil be our year!

Natasha M I thought I might need to stay in London for 2 weeks but 17-21 days is a bit long. However, when your desperate to be pregnant it's amazing how accommodating you become! I'm already thinking 'right how can we work this out.'  Your suggestion to give Create a call is a really good one. I think I'm going to ring them tomorrow just to help me get my head around things and start planning for next year.

This site has given me so much support over the years, thank you all. I think we're all strong women to get through all this and we should give ourselves a pat on the back!!!


----------



## annabell99

Hi all!

Susie- I'm glad the 6 week scan went well!   I'm sure when I get there I will be doing tests every day like you did - I hope you are feeling more reassured now. 

Natasha- good to hear you're doing well! It's so cool that you can feel the baby moving! I hope you can relax and enjoy your dad's visit.

JBre- Welcome to the thread! Have you spoken to the staff at Create yet? I'm sure they will be very helpful. We also probably wouldn't have done IVF if we hadn't found Create. It is amazing that they give options to people who otherwise might not have them. I know how it is when most of your friends have babies, we are in that position too and it is painful   Let's hope 2010 is a good year for all of us!

Buffy- I think my af will be arriving soon so i may be a week or so behind you in Jan. Good to know that there will be a few people at the same time though!

Flowergirl- hope your throat infection is getting better!  

Clare- hope you are feeling well and still excited rather than worried!  

Lulu - good luck for weds 

Thank you all so much for your support and messages recently - I really think this group makes the whole process so much more bearable, you are all inspirational and I am so grateful that you are all there! 

I have had quite a few aches in my lower abdomen and back in the last couple of weeks, so went to the GP who tested for cystitis - the test was negative but then they gave me cystitis antibiotics just in case   It's not gone away after the antibiotics so I have another appointment tomorrow. It's probably nothing but I don't want to be worrying about any possible problems in that department at the moment!

I hope everyone is well and lots of love to all

xx


----------



## Jbre

Hello!

annabell99 - I called the nurses at Create this morning and the lady I spoke to was lovely. She didn't rush me and answered all of my questions. She has recommended that me and DH should attend one of their open days early next year, and that Dr Nargund gives every couple 5 mins of her time at the end. We are going to hopefully pop down to one in Feb/March if possible. it's really funny but I was always dead against having ivf but feel quite receptive to it now that i've come across the Create clinic like yourself. I wish they offered a similar service across the country so that women could have more choice!

ClareTG - I'm sure conventional ivf works for some but I'm very wary of the drugs/amounts used especially with my family history. I think in a few years they will control things a lot better than they do now. This route feels justright for me, can't explain it but it feels a bit safer and like I'm more in control if that makes any sense at all    I also read that you are pregnant, thats so lovely, well done! 

NatashaM - I've just gone through the older posts and see that you are expecting too. Congratulations! It's lovely to see all the BFP's on this thread and it gives me so much hope!

2Flowergirl - It is so interesting to meet you and hear that you have chosen Create for the same reasons as me. Hopefully we can support each other over the coming year, fingers crossed 2010 will be lucky for us!

Is everyone all set and looking forward to christmas


----------



## Sunshine42

Hello ladies,

Wow, things are moving with this thread, is that 2 bumps on the way! Fantastic!

A big thank you for all your reassurance's re 'no egg collected' at first attempt, I'm feeling much more hopeful about the 2nd attempt in January now, with my cycle it will start around 3rd week of Jan, going to get my FSH tested again, just incase it has come down and can mean a mild cycle.

Buffy - I didn't know that having one ovary could affect FSH levels - this is what is so great about this site, we can all learn so much from others experiences and knowledge. Thanks for your encouragement.

Well I'm going to take a break until the new year, so Merry Christmas to you all and I can only mirror what has already been written - here's to lots of BFP's in 2010, starting with all those January girls!!

And for those ladies with recent successful cycles, take care in the ice and snow and fingers crossed along with everything else crossed!

Sunshine xxxx


----------



## lulumead

hello lovelies,

I'm beginning to lose track as there are more and more of us joining  

Over on the singlies board we have a page with all the bumps and babies on it, maybe we should have a create babies & bumps post!  Hopefully 2010 is going to be full of them.

Just trying to work out what to ask Geeta on Wednesday, will probably change sperm donor regardless as you never know, might be a reason, am hoping tubes are clear so I can crack on with some IUI's if not, not sure what's next.  So frustrating as nothing from tests so far that suggest anything other than unlucky. Ho hum.

Hope everyone doing ok. Think it will be getting busy in January when everyone starts cycles again.
xxx


----------



## Buffy68

Hello ladies

I had a bit of a traumatic time yesterday.  I went shopping in Reading with my sister and when the snow started to fall we got trapped there because the whole area became gridlocked.  All the hotels were fully booked up so in the end we just started to make our way home but it took about 11 hours to get back to Basingstoke, which was full of abandoned vehicles.  This was one of those rare times when I was glad I wasn't pregnant, or looking after a baby like some people I saw!  Also, apparantly women in labour couldn't get to hospital and the emergancy services couldn't get through to them.  I am recovering at home now but we still have several inches of snow here.

Flowergirl -I hope your throat is starting to feel better now.

Annabell - any sign of your AF yet?  I hope it doesn't clash with Christmas.  How did your appointment with the doctor go?  Be careful of taking lots of antibiotics unless you really need them.

Sunshine - I think there are 4 bumps on the way now: cwsg, Natasha, Susie and Claire.

love to everyone, it's good to be keeping up to date with you all


----------



## Sunshine42

Buffy - that sounds awful.........  its so bizarre, I'm not that many miles from Basingstoke but we got an inch of snow and now it has all gone - thankfully. I did have a friend trying to get home past Basingstoke, but she landed up in a hotel - think she was one of the lucky ones!  hope you have recovered from your ordeal...

Thanks for the update on bumps - 4 is wonderful!

Looking forward to catching up with everyone in Jan!

Sunshine xx


----------



## SusieB20

Buffy - you poor thing, that sounds just dreadful. I have to admit I've been a bit nervous with all this ice about as I'm worried about slipping over but it's warmed up slightly here now so hopefully that's the last of it for a bit.

I had my 6 week / 6 day scan today and the second little embryo is catching up - I saw two wonderful heartbeats fluttering on the screen and it was the best Christmas present ever! Still a while to go until the 12-week mark but I couldn't be happier.

Wish you all a wonderful Christmas and lots of BFPs for 2010!!!

Lots of love

xxx


----------



## NatashaM

Hi All,

Buffy - What a nightmare. I saw that Reading was really badly hit. Poor you, hope you are snug at home now.

Annabell - sorry you're having pains, how are you doing now? Did you see the GP again?

Susie - Two heartbeats! Amazing, congratulations! 

Clare - Hope things are going well for you too.

Sunshine - thanks for the good wishes. I'm being very careful on the ice when I have to go out in it. It's raining hard tonight so hopefully that will get rid of it.

We picked up my dad from E Croydon station last night (they flew into Gatwick) and spent the day up in town today with him and his wife today. It's great to have them here. 

Lots of love and Christmas wishes to all,
N x


----------



## Skybreeze

Good luck in 2010 ladies
Natalie xxx (your mod)​


----------



## GJB66

Hello,

Just a quick post, it does seem as though Create are on a roll - I got a BFP on Sunday. This is ivf attempt no 9 and it was a single 4 cell embryo. I know there is still potentially a lot to get through, but I am delighted to have finally made some progress.

Best wishes for 2010 and here's hoping that this is the start of a super fertile spate at Create.

Bee


----------



## SusieB20

Bee - welcome to the thread and many congratulations on your BFP!!! You must be so thrilled to have got this far after so many attempts. Best of luck for the coming weeks and months. 

Clare - did you have your scan this week? Hope everything went well.

Hope everyone had a lovely Christmas and New Year - I managed to pick up a cold from my in-laws so have been sniffling all this week but feeling a lot better now. We've got a beautiful day here so heading off shortly for a walk on Wimbledon Common.

Hope all is well with everyone and lots of     to all those embarking on treatment this month

xxx


----------



## cwsg

big congratuation Bee  



An update from me, baby is well but not staying head down yet.  so want a natural birth an aparently if it is breech in three weeks (37 weeks pregnant) I may need to look at a cesarian which I really dont want. I have had an upsetting 24 hours worrying about it.
Also, I have protein in my urine, and it has been sent off for tests 

I know it must seem strange to those just wanting to get pregnant, that I feel upset even though i have a healthy nearly 35 week baby inside, and really having the baby in my arms is far more important than how it was born. But never the less, giving birth is part of the magic of motherhood. After having IVF to conceive, I long for a natural birthing experience, and not to have this also taken away from me.

cwsg


----------



## Sunshine42

Many Congratulations Bee - that is wonderful news and starts the year off nicely!  after so many attempts I am sure you can't believe it, one day at a time and you will be there...

cwsg - it does not seem strange at all that you wish for a natural birth... fingers crossed that in just a few weeks time you will get your wish, keep smiling.

sunshine


----------



## NatashaM

Hi All,

Bee - welcome to the thread and congratulations. It must be such a wonderful feeling after so many let-downs. 

Susie - sorry you haven't been well but glad to hear you're feeling a lot better now.

cswg - I don't think it is weird at all. You have been through a lot to get where you are and a natural birth at around 40 weeks is what I'm hoping for too. I'm sorry about the protein too - how is your BP? My BP is up a bit but I didn't have any protein in my urine and they did the pre-eclampsia blood tests which came back fine however I went for my 28 week scan on Tuesday and the baby's growth has slowed right down to the bottom of the normal range (the tummy and leg measurements only, not the head) so they want to scan me again in two weeks and see the consultant next week because I am at risk of IUGR. I was so happy after the scan I had at 24 weeks when he was all big and bouncy but I'm freaking out again now. If the growth problems continue I may have to have an early caesarian. It sucks. I get that 'so near and so far' feeling. You just want everything to be ok, and it's perfectly natural to want that. I will be 29 weeks on Sunday.

I hope everyone else is fine and the best of luck for 2010 to those loking forward to treatment. It looks like Create is *the* place to be right now. 

Lots of love
N xx


----------



## cwsg

natasha- my bp is very good, but the babies leg growth was also at the bottom of the normal range this time. She checked the blood flow to see if the placenta was working properly and it was normal.
I found out from my nct facilitator by email that 80% of breech babies at 34 weeks will have turned by full term, something the registrar failed to tell me, sending me into an uneccesary panic. Aparently there's no point me seeing the consultant as they will have the same attitude too.
Just got to be positive thinking and inverted postures from now on.

cwsg


----------



## ClareTG

Wow more good Create results - congratulations Bee. Let us know when you're due in for your scan.

I had mine on tuesday with Geeta - they found one sack with a yoke in it - phew. Part of me had convinced myself there'd be two so it was a reality check too! The measurements were on the small side - more 5.5 weeks than 6.5 so have started feeling massively protective already willing on the little thing to grow well. They couldn't detect the heartbeat yet - Geeta thinks it embedded late, so i'm back next tuesday to hopefully pick it up then.

Natasha & cwsg - its perfectly understandable that you both want natural births especially after the IVF start. 
cwsg - good to have the reassurance from your NCT facilitator - hopefully you'll be in the 80% that turn.
Natasha - I hope the growth issues level out. Let us know how the consultant appointment & scan go.

Susie - hope you're feeling better & refreshed after you're Wimbledon common walk i might take a leaf out of your book today - looks cold but bright. We were in Kent yesterday & went to visit Rye - really lovely place - will have to go back in the summer.

Love to everyone else too - lots of luck for this year at Create
xx


----------



## lulumead

all very exciting on here hearing about the bumps and bumplets that are developing  

hello Bee - lovely news about your BFP.

CW: you can do some poses that help the baby turn I think...on all fours! 
Nat & CW: hoping both of you get to have natural births, totally understand wanting that after everything you have done to get to this stage...sending positive vibes...really not long now for either of you. 

Clare; hope you little bubs keeps on growing big and strong  

Susie, sunshine, Annabell, natasha and natalie (the mod!) hello!

and happy new year to all my fellow create-ers...this thread certainly seems to be growing all the time.
xxx


----------



## annabell99

Hello everyone and Happy New Year!

Lots of exciting talk on the thread at the moment 

Hi Bee, welcome and congratulations! Did you have 9 attempts at Natural IVF or Mild IVF? Sorry for being nosey but I'm trying to work out whether to go for natural or mild at my next go.

cwsg- I heard acupunture is good for turning breech babies? You still have plenty of time, I have a friend whose baby was breech until the day of birth but it turned round and came out fine. She did a lot of exercises to encourage it to turn around- I think you have to keep mobile as much as possible.

Natasha-  I hope your next scan and consultant visit goes well, hopefully the little one will put a spurt on   

Clare- Good luck for the scan tomorrow! Let us know how you get on   

Lulu - hope all is well! How did the HSG go and what are your plans for your next attempt?

Hello to everyone else, I hope everyone is well!

Lots of love,


xx


----------



## Buffy68

Hello everyone, I hope you had a relaxing Christmas break and that 2010 is a good year, especially as regards fertility  

DH and I started a nasty cold on Christmas Eve and we are still coughing now so it wasn't our best break ever, but thank goodness we are now on the up and up!

Clare - I am glad to hear they found a sack with a yolk at your scan and I hope tomorrow you see some healthy growth and a heartbeat!

I sometimes wonder if all the checks you have when you are pregnant are worth the anxiety they seem to cause as nobody seems to sail through without something to get worried about!

cwsg - if that baby doesn't turn of its own accord then apparantly acupuncture works very well!

Bee - congratulations!  I always find it especially heartening when this happens to someone who has had to try several times, it just shows that sometimes you just have to be patient and persistent.

Susie - that's great news about the 2 heartbeats!  I hope you're feeling good and haven't got too much nausea etc.

Does anyone who is planning to have another go in January have any idea of dates yet?

Love to all
Buffy


----------



## cwsg

thanks for your understanding about my breech baby, well infact i think it is turning all the time and happened to be breech on that day (i hope)
I have been doing lots of exercises and swimiing and am going to have accupunture.
The women on here seem to relate more to wanting a natural birth than other threads, possibly because of having gone for more natural ivf.

cwsg


----------



## annabell99

Hi Buffy- 
AF arrived on 23/12 so I think I will be starting the next cycle towards the end of Jan. Luckily given that it was over Xmas it was a very light AF - don't know if this is related to finding no egg etc during the cycle.  What is your timing likely to be? 

Sorry to hear that you and DH have been ill, I hope you are fully recovered soon!

Lots of love

xx


----------



## Sunshine42

Hi everyone,

Buffy & Annabell - AF arrived 24/12, so for me too it will be towards the end of Jan. I too had light bleed after no egg in that cycle, maybe the 2 are linked. Can't come soon enough now I am ready for the next try, fingers crossed this cycle will be successful.

Seems lots of bugs around at mo, colleague at work who sits close by coughing / sneezing today and DH also has cold, keeping up my Vit C intake! 

Best wishes to all, lovely to hear all the bumps news and progress!

Sunshine xx


----------



## Buffy68

I think my next AF will start around Sunday.  I am in a bit of a dilemna because I was thinking of skipping the next cycle because of really not being very well over the last few weeks, and taking the 4 weeks to build up my health.  This is something my acupuncturist also recommended.  However, the next cycle after that the EC is likely to be around my birthday  

Annabell and Sunshine - sounds like you will be doing the next cycle at about the same time


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## SusieB20

Hello all
Lulu - how did it go with Geeta?

CW - good news that the baby is still moving lots as there's every chance that he/she will get into the right position in time. Hope your acupuncture is going well, if anything it will help relax you

Natasha - hope you get good news on the scan next week, keeping everything crossed that a growth spurt has happened

Clare - hope the scan went well - as Geeta said, if you had a late implantation then it will take a while to catch up - my second little one is a few days behind the other still and they were transferred on the same day

Buffy - sorry you've been so poorly and it's frustrating if it then puts your treatment back by a cycle. Hope you're feeling much better soon

Annabell & Sunshine - best of luck for your next cycle!

I saw my immue specialist today (also obstetrican which is handy) and had a scan - still two heartbeats which is reassuring! I will be 9 weeks tomorrow so have got my referral for antenatal care. I think I'll probably go to St George's as it's literally around the corner from me and I've been told they have a very good antenatal unit. It seems quite strange starting to think about it as the past few weeks seem to have gone by so slowly. Luckily not getting much nausea as apparently the steroids I'm on reduce it, which is one benefit I guess!

Hope everyone is well, take care in the snow! xxx


----------



## suesunday

Hallo ladies! I'm a lurker, or at least I was a lurker. Just fessing up that I too am in the January pile - my AF comes in the next few days. 

Has been an utter joy reading this for the past couple of weeks. So lovely to hear about so much success - well done Clare, Susie & Bee (and to presumably the considerably bigger cswg and Natasha  )! And also really good to see all the support and understanding for everyone. 

This is my first ivf - or it might be icsi depending on DH's morphology on the day - so I may well be back with more newbie questions. I've already found this thread very comforting. Am bit of a worrier! 

Can I borrow your collective expertise to ask about how you dealt with work and general levels of activity around the various stages - but especially after ET? I work in quite a full on environment, where there's not much chance of taking it easy, so although I don't really want to hang around at home, taking leave might be the only way of preventing them making me stay late night after night. Grump. Grump. Grump. 

Thanks a million and a substantial dose of baby dust all round
Sue


----------



## lulumead

Hello all, and welcome Sue!

Sue: good luck with your 1st go, and hopefully your last! I generally have taken leave from EC until a couple of days after ET, mainly so I didnt have to stress...you can sign yourself off sick for 5 days, saying gynae stuff which I have done once, as I didn't want to keep using my leave.  But to be honest I'm not sure whether resting makes much difference, I have done it most times and it hasn't worked!  Not being stressed is probably good though.

SusieB: good to hear all is progressing if slowly!  two little ones is very exciting.

Hope everyone else is good. There seems to be a lot of lovely bumps developing on here.

I'm waiting for AF so I can have my HSG done...should be around end of Jan, then Geeta has also suggested a hysteroscopy...so have to wait to be referred to someone else for that...grrrr... have also had some blood tests done for basic immunes...was hoping I could go again in February but I suspect that won't happen, which is annoying, I'm ready to get going again now.  

xx


----------



## annabell99

Hi all!

Sunshine- it sounds as if, all being well, we will have very similar timing this month!    fingers crossed that it will be a good one!

Buffy- I'm really sorry to hear you're still feeling under the weather   I hope you feel better soon. It must be very frustrating to decide to postpone your next cycle.  Are you going to see how you feel over the next couple of days until you get your AF? I tend to take the approach that my body "resets" with AF- for example I had a (very!) small amount to drink over Xmas, on the grounds that I would have another AF before my next cycle...not sure how scientific this approach is though  !

Hello and welcome Sue! Good luck with your first (and hopefully last) cycle! I'm afraid I can't advise effectively about work because I don't work at the moment (partly in order to focus on the IVF) , but I think it is a good idea within reason to keep busy as otherwise it is very easy to obsess ..I know all about this  ! It might be a good idea to take a few days leave as Lulu suggests though so you aren't worrying about work as well as everything else?

Susie- Good to hear that all is well, and it's a happy co-incidence that the immune drugs stop nausea!  

Clare- I hope all went well with the scan  

Lulu- Frustrating that your tests are taking a while, but hopefully they will give you peace of mind for your next go, and hopefully the HSG will all be fine and you can try IUI for a while.     Did Geeta suggest the hysteroscopy for a reason or is it just a double check? Did your GP do the immunes or Geeta? 

I hope I haven't missed anyone, lots of love to all

xxx


----------



## NatashaM

Hi Everyone,

Big welcome to Sue! So nice to have more people on board. I only took the two days off (transfer and collection). I read quite a bit around the subject and as long as you lie down for half an hour after transfer it is actually better for you to be active. I think the studies showed that more people who moved around as opposed to stayed on bed rest for the rest of the day got pregnant (NB - different for IUI - you should lie down most of the day after that) as it stimulated uterine blood flow. 

The thing I had the most problems with work-wise were the scans leading up to collection and transfer. I had to go in every other day from about day 5 to when I ovulated (and I always ovulate around day 16 - 17) so if they didn't have an early morning appointment I might be one or two hours late for work and that really ****** my boss off. 

Lulu - Sorry that things are dragging on. I guess it is best to remember that armed with all these results the next go will have a much better chance of working. Still frustrating I know.

Susie - Glad to hear things are going well. I know what you mean about the first trimester going really slowly. It dragged and dragged for me. The second seemed to go quicker but the third is another slowy. Glad you're not getting sick. I didn't have any morning sickness either.

Buffy - Sorry you haven't been feeling 100%. I would probably go for the next cycle if that's what you've been advised. It might be the best birthday present ever, keep thinking positively. xx

Clare - Good luck with your scan. Let us know how it went. 

Sunshine, Annabel, cwsg - Hello! Hope you are all keeping well.

I saw the consultant last night and because my placenta is, basically, a bit crap I'm going to be induced at 38 weeks as long as things don't deterioriate any further. I'm to have fortnightly scans and see her after each one so I am being very well looked after. Next one is Tuesday 12th. My blood pressure wasn't so high yesterday either which was a relief. 

I'm not as disappointed as I thought I would be about being told I'm going to be induced. I know there's a good reason for it (the placenta really dies off the last couple of weeks, so if it' not up to scratch to start with...) and I was never going to be dogmatic. You just do what's best for the baby. So it looks like he'll be making an appearance around the 4th March.

Lots of love to all
N xx


----------



## Buffy68

Hello everyone, it's good to see this thread waking up again after the Christmas and New Year break!

I liked what Natasha said about EC or ET potentially being a great birthday present, well you never know and anyway my timing does alter from month to month.  Having discussed with dh he feels I should miss the next cycle and go for the one after even if it does coincide with my birthday so it looks like that's what I'll be doing.

Natasha - sorry to hear about your potential problems with the placenta but it sounds like this is something that can be "worked around" at least.  Maybe this is something that Chinese herbs could help with if you are thinking of trying to fall pregnant again sometime.  They certainly seem to work at thickening the uterine lining.  Glad to hear your blood pressure has improved too and that you are being thoroughly checked in the last trimester.

Annabell - I agree with your logic re AF - I think it must play a role in detoxing too?  As it happens I have not been 100% since late October what with one virus or another and I don't know whether something that lasts over this sort of period of time could be a drain on the body so that egg development is affected.  As eggs take 3 months to grow it seems wise to have a break.  It's all a gamble of course, but I'm only supposed to be having another 4 cycles at CH in theory so I want to maximise my chances.

Lulu - a hysteroscopy is a good idea.  I had one on Geeta's advice (I had polyps to remove) and she gave me the details of a consultant near Raynes Park.  He did the op within a fortnight, although obviously this was private.

Sue - welcome to the group - sounds like we may be starting our AF at about the same time.  You'll have to let us know how you get on.  To be honest I find going to the clinics for the scans such a drain that I don't work that day - but then I am travelling from Basingstoke.  I also find I cannot work the day after egg collection as my body has been knocked for 6.

Susie - glad to hear you're still carrying 2 passengers   and feeling OK.

cwsg - when is your due date?

Clare - how did the scan go, sending


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## cwsg

Buffy, my due date is Feb 7th

cwsg


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## lulumead

wow CWSG - thats soon! How exciting!

can I just ask has anyone else had a hysteroscopy? I'm confused as to why i need one as no indication on any scans of any polyps/fibroids/etc  lining always triple layer and as it should be...I'm not really sure what the point of it is! Of course I will have to have it done as Geeta has suggested it but I would like to know a bit more why...didn't get much sense at St George's, think I will email Geeta and ask her.

hello everyone else  
xx


----------



## ClareTG

Hello everyone

Lulu - i had a hysteroscopy for fibroids/polyps. It might feel like an obstacle in the way of moving forward in your treatment but it may well be revealing & help to understand the best course of action for you.  I had no idea i had endometriosis until my laproscopy for fibroids this year. So perhaps hysteroscopies can give an insight into conditions.I wonder if it's dependent on the HSG result as to whether you'll need the hysteroscopy. Good idea to email Geeta about that - i'm sure she'll have good reason for recommending it.

Buffy - good decision i reckon. You can never really predict what your body will do (i've tried!) so hopefully a month's rest will help things & you never know with the birthday luck...My scan went well thanks. Lakshmi said the measurements were corresponding well & i got to see the little heartbeat! Flickering away at 145bpm - no wonder i feel so knackered. Was great to see it - there's a viable little bundle there yeay!

CWSG - 7th Feb is so close now - hope you're not suffering too much & the breech is moving round.

Natasha - you're so not far behind either - sounds like you're taking the news of the induction on the chin. Your mother's instinct is obviously kicking in - knowing you're doing what's best for the baby. My sister's first baby was booked in early due to a diminishing placenta & all was fine.

Sue - hello. I would agree with Natasha that the crucial bit for the treatment is staying as long as half an hour after the transfer if possible. Otherwise carry on as normal trying to relax & don't (over)excercise in the 2ww. I had 1 more day off after my transfer last time before going back to work (& about 4 days on the 1st attempt). The scanning part at the start of the process is the trickiest to negotiate with work if you're not taking time off then. If it makes life easier for you to take the days off for treatment then do.

Susie - I've been wondering if you were suffering more with 2 littluns on board. Glad to hear it's not a problem. I have to say i've been suffering with it a bit. Mostly wretching (how pleasant!) - am having to eat my way through it - mostly carbs - uh oh!

Annabell & Sunshine - good luck for the end of the month - exciting, it'll come round quickly!

Hello to everyone i've left out too. Love to you all

xx


----------



## 2Flowergirl

Hi Ladies,

Finally shook of my throat infection/cold after 3 weeks and antibiotics so sorry I haven't said hello....

Lulu - Good luck with the hysteroscopy! 

ClareTG - fab news on the little one!!  

Bee - Congrats!! 

CWSG - best wishes - hope the baby moves from breech, so you can have the natural birth you want!

Natasha - I'm sure everything will go well if you are induced and everything seems to be being closely monitored, which is good. I had my daughter 10 days early and she was fine!  In fact, the consultant said she looked like a 2 weeks overdue baby....?

Sue - welcome and good luck with your first attempt    

Susie - how wonderful you have 2 babies on board!!   

Buffy, Annabell & Sunshine - good luck with your next cycles    

Sorry if I've missed anyone!

We have been for a follow-up with Geeta and the good news is that after a detailed SA at Wimbledon, my DH had a sample frozen which we will have as a back-up on EC day and he doesn't have to do anymore before as we initially told.  We are booked in to go back at the end of Feb for our pre-treatment consultation, so fingers x we will commence mild IVF/ICSI in March.  

We have had a nightmare the past 10 days as my mother-in-law who was staying at ours for the xmas break, fell down a whole flight of stairs during the night in our house and she is still in hospital.  One op on her wrist last week and another on her shoulder later today, so will be at the hospital quite a bit still this week, so if I don't get a chance to pop in, Good luck everyone!!!!! 
xxx


----------



## NatashaM

Hi All,

Hope everyone is doing well.

Flowergirl - I am so sorry about your mother in law. How is she getting on now? Glad to hear about your treatment. It must be a reassurance to have that frozen sample.

Lulu - never had a hysteroscopy myself - Clare and Buffy's advice and info sound good.

Buffy - Good luck getting that birthday present! We are all behind you.

cswg - Your due date is fast approaching, wishing all the best to you in these last few weeks of pregnancy. Have you tried any of the exercises on the spinning babies website? http://www.spinningbabies.com/

I went to the blood pressure clinic today (I'm 30 weeks and 1 day) - the baby's growth has really picked up and his leg and tum measurements are back up to the 50th percentile. Normal amount of liquid in there too which signifies the placenta is working well. My BP is still high - 140/90 so I am starting on a low dose of beta blockers and will be checked again next Monday (unless I get any new symptoms like headaches or visual disturbance and then I am to go straight in and see them). My blood tests were all fine. I'm really pleased with this. Baby's still breech as well - apparently only 15% are still head up at this stage but hopefully he'll move round. I'm going to ante natal yoga tomorrow night and having reflexology on Wednesday so one or the other or both of them might help him turn.

Love to everyone on the Create thread.

N xx

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## annabell99

Hi All!

CWSG- WOW 7th Feb is really soon! So excited for you! Hope you are feeling well.  

Natasha- Good to hear that everything is looking good! I hope the blood pressure issue stays under control with the beta blockers. They are meant to make you feel very calm!  I can't believe how near your due date is as well  - the time has gone so fast! (I guess it might not seem so fast to you !  )

Buffy- I think you are right to maximise your chances even if it means having to be patient for a while. Let's hope you have a lucky birthday!  Are you feeling better now? Has AF arrived?

Lulu- have you got any answers from Geeta on why she recommended the hysteroscopy? 

Flowergirl- Glad to hear your throat infection is better but very sorry about your mother-in-law. I hope she is on the mend now. It's great news about the sperm sample, that should be a reassuring back-up.

Clare, Susie - hope all is well with you !  

Sue- Has AF arrived yet?

I think I ovulated this week so approx 2 weeks to go until trying again. I had quite a lot of spotting around ovulation time - don't know if this also has something to do with the no egg/cancelled cycle last time around? 

Still wondering whether to do a natural or mild cycle  . We had decided over Xmas to do one more natural but since then DH's job has changed (due to company sale) and he is concerned this might mean more travelling/unavoidable meetings over the next few months. We  are now  wondering whether it would be better to do a mild cycle this time, in the hope that even if it didn't work this time we would hopefully be able to freeze some embryos to use in a subsequent cycles which would take the pressure off  DH! I'm still not sure if I am comfortable with this idea though, so I can't come to a decision .

I think I need to decide fairly soon though becuase if we decided to do mild then I need an induction for the injections  .

Lots of love to all

xxx


----------



## cwsg

Hi all,

baby still hasn't turned, or maybe did full circle. Am back on moxa and homeopathic pulsattla being sent to me. I have 9 days till the important scan in hospital, where they will, if still in breech offer me a ECV. I then would need to ask to delay it by one week, till 38weeks and if theyb offer a c-section, hold this off as long as poss.
It's dampening my exitement a bit, but still amazingly exited about meeting the baby and how my life will change.

cwsg


----------



## suesunday

Hi all! Thanks so much for all the lovely welcomes. I'm so glad to be a part of this gang! 

Thanks all for the advice. Do they let you stay lying down for that half an hour after ET, or will I need to remember to ask? (Notebook currently proving essential. Can't ever retain anything for more than 2 minutes!)

Cswg- oh gosh. It makes my heart leap to read about your excitement at meeting your baby. So so lovely. So excited for you! Fingers crossed you won't be too posh to push! And it's really lovely that you and Natasha are here - so heartening. Very glad to hear the Little Natasha is doing so well - with footballer/ballet dancer/long legged profession of your choice legs now, right? 
Clare - this is going to sound wicked, but even the thought of your retching is very happy making! 

Lulu - did you hear from Geeta yet about why the hysteroscopy? Just to add something completely random in, have you ever thought about doing a down reg cycle? One of my chums is v keen on them - not enough to stop me trying to do it without, but she's sent me stuff suggesting that short protocol might negatively impact egg development. Must say though that Geeta pooh-poohed it when I raised it with her.  

Flowergirl - sorry to hear about your mother in law - esp on top of a really nasty sounding infection.

Annabell - what's on the cons side for the mild? 

Buffy - so you're not in with me this round? Very sensibly giving yourself a rest. You're going to know better than anyone what the right thing for you and how you feel is - so good call. Here's to birthday presents. 

Sunshine - you and Annabell will be 2 weeks after me? 

My AF was Sunday, so I did my first injection yesterday. Eek. I wasn't very brave. (And you're all saying "huh, wait until you have shove stuff up your front bottom, lady", no doubt . This is all so glamorous. ) 

Walked out of work at 4:00, having had a little cry at my line manager earlier in the day. Now it seems really funny. But they're going to think I'm totally mental. I'm tired! I always get an end of period slump (but no pmt beforehand), but I usually drink gallons of black coffee and fight through it. Not this month!  

Lots of love to all 
Sue


----------



## lulumead

wow...almost too many people on here now to retain all the info about what everyone is up to!

exciting to think some babes arriving on this thread soon    

Sue: well done on 1st injection can all be a bit overwhelming. I really don't mind them now and with my inability to swallow tablets would happily inject myself with anything rather than take tablets  

Hope the babies are turning if they need to  

I emailed Geeta and she said "hysteroscopy not essential but can be performed in women with failed implantation" , didn't really help to be honest. So I think I will go back to create with my blood test results and tube test results and take it from there whilst I wait for the hysteroscopy appointment.  New York man back in March so trying not to excited about that or too hopeful about anything happening but not doing very well at that  

love to all
xxx


----------



## Buffy68

Hello everyone

Hope you are all enjoying the snow!

Lulu - I think hysteroscopy is just suggested because they are trying to find some reason why your embies didn't implant.  It's a bit of a scattergun approach but you may as well add it to the list.  

Sue - I assume you are doing a mild cycle?  Good luck with the injections and well done on your first one.  Don't worry if you bruise a little bit or if a little liquid comes out after the injection, these things happen sometimes.  It's a shame you couldn't have any days off work for your AF.

cwsg - hope that baby turns into position!  Have you tried acupuncture?  We're all very excited about 7 Feb!!!!!

Annabell - I wouldn't have thought spotting during ovulation has anything to do with your last cycle.  Were you particularly tired at the time?  My advice re what to do with next cycle is to go with what your intuition is telling you to do rather than with logic.  And remember, it's only *one* cycle.  And also, you know, when the timing is right.... 

Natasha - glad to hear baby's growth is looking good, you must be delighted!  Sorry to hear about your blood pressure - is this anything to do with stress or is it just a genetic thing?   Either way yoga and reflexology will be good for you both I'm sure.  

Flowergirl - good to hear your dh is "sorted" now, I think they get it easy compared to us LOL.  Hope your MIL is well on the road to recovery also.  It's just as well you weren't in the middle of a cycle with Create when it happened!

Clare - fantastic news about seeing the heartbeat, I can only imagine how thrilling that must be  

As for me, I am still awaiting AF which has felt imminent for 3 or 4 days now (I am currently day 30.)  Feeling much better now and have given up coffee and alcohol as well as cut back on dairy products (now on goats' milk) and sugary products.


----------



## Sunshine42

Hello everyone,

I've been a bit listen for a few days, this is a busy time at work for me, so have been concentrating on getting rest, staying well and meditation ready for next cycle which depending on AF will start 21st / 22nd. No trains today so working from home.

This thread is wonderful, really enjoy reading it, but have to admit to losing track with who is doing what... But Feb 7th due date is very clear.. looking forward to the wonderful news.

In one of the posts,  I think Sue, you ask about managing a cycle and work, I decided to tell my boss and HR manager that I was undergoing treatment, they actually have an IVF policy in place to manage time off etc. which means I know where I stand. I must say my boss is a star and has been supportive, the relief of 'not lying' and 'not worrying' about work is immense. Now - how this affects my career prospects  - who knows, but I can't worry about that, being a Mummy is my priority above everything else.

Best of luck to those of you who have already started cycles in Jan and big hugs to those starting next week.  Stay safe in the snow!!!

Sunshine


----------



## annabell99

Hi all!

Cwsg- Good luck with getting that baby to turn around!    I don't know if this is an urban myth but you should stay away from bikini waxing (I don't know if this is something you are likely to be doing at the moment anyway ) as I have heard of several people whose babies were breach after a bikini wax, apparantly the babies turn around to move their heads away from the heat of the wax....of course in reality who knows if waxing has anything to do with it but maybe worth bearing in mind...

Sue- congrats on the first injection! I hope it gets easier for you. Yes I'm two weeks behind- I can't wait to get on with it now!

Lulu- I agree with Buffy the hysteroscopy sounds like a bit of a kitchen-sink approach. I'm not sure what new information can be obtained as I thought things like fibroids and polyps would show up on the ultrasounds? I guess it might be useful but if there is a long wait I think you are right to carry on in the interim. When is your HSG and when are you expecting the blood test results?

Buffy- Very glad to hear you are feeling better! That sounds like a very dedicated diet, you definitely deserve to feel better   My dad has recommended a drink called Dr. Red- it is very full of antioxidants and apparantly has good effects in cases of prostrate cancer. I'm trying that at the moment, it tastes like spicy ribena. I wasn't particularly tired last week so I don't know why all the spotting happened, hopefully just one of those odd things.

Sunshine- hope you get plenty of rest ready for AF. Sounds like we will be pretty much at the same time! It's good your work are so supportive, that must be a big weight off your mind! 

My reasons for stressing about whether to do a mild cycle are as follows- 

Firstly I'm very small and only want one embie transferred at a time, so I wouldn't get the benefit of greater chance of success due to having 2 replaced, which is one of the key features of mild vs. natural. Also I would really want to give every single embie a chance of implanting.

Secondly  I have a real phobia about the ovary stimulation as my little sister was critically ill  aged 15 due to internal bleeding and  peritionitis after a burst ovarian cyst. I saw it happen to her and it was a very traumatic event, so I get quite panicky at the thought of the stimulation injections for this reason even though I know logically there's no connection.

However despite these things my intuition is saying maybe it is time to give the mild ivf a go   The big benefit would be the fact that it reduces the chance of a repeat of last month with no egg found. I have called Create to ask about potentially booking an induction for mild ivf, and I'm waiting for them to call back.

Sorry for all the me talk, it helps to articulate it!

Lots of love to all

xxx


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## Sunshine42

Hi Annabell,

I can understand your concerns about ovary stimulation, the reason I have one ovary is due to an ovarian cyst that became very nasty several years ago, but if I remember correctly I believe Create have not had any cases of hyperstimulation (if that is the correct term), I think Geeta is particularly careful about this. If I had the chance to have mild IVF I would grab it, as you say a repeat of no egg at egg collection could be reduced with the mild IVF. At the end of the day you have to go with your gut feeling and the professional advice from Create. Good luck with your decision.

I can't wait to get going again next week, I just hope all the snow / ice issues are done with, or I could be walking to Create for my scans........

Sunshine  xx ( I wish I could magic some sunshine to the UK right now!)


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## lulumead

Hi annabell,

I agree with sunshine, Create are really good at avoiding OHSS, so think mild would be a good way to go. Despite getting lots of eggs I never had any good enough to freeze so that's not always a plus of mild although definitely more likely than natural  

Thanks all for advice re hysteroscopy, I think I will just wait and see what happens and plod on anyway.

Sorry got to dash but sending lots of       
xx


----------



## Buffy68

Hello everyone

Hope you are all well and enjoyed a relaxing weekend.  My AF still hasn't turned up yet - day 34.  I'm starting to think I must have skipped this one as I was rather ill at the time of ovulation.  Has anyone else experienced a skipped period following illness or stress?

I've been reading through the Zita West fertility book and another one called "Stay Fertile Longer" which are giving me lots of ideas to try.  New year, new body!

Sunshine - glad to hear your boss is supportive.  Doing several cycles of natural can take its toll and be rather stressful so you don't need more aggravation from work.

Annabell - it seems there are several Dr Red drinks, which one in particular do you recommend?  I wouldn't worry about the spotting if it happens at ovulation.  Have you considered doing a controlled cycle as a sort of halfway house between natural and mild?  I don't think you need to worry about over stimulation but I can see your point about not being able to transfer two embryos.

Take care all  
Buffy


----------



## chellymadrid

Hi Ladies
I wonder if you can help me, I am very keen on the idea of trying natural IVF, I am living in Madrid and 
have found a clinic here that will offer this treatment, but i wondered if you would offer me some of your 
thoughts and opinion on this treatment,

I have already had three fully stimulated cycles of IVF which from the three i had six ET, and from that 4 m´cs all at different times
the last was ectopic and resulted in surgery and then saldy i suffered with blood clots on my lungs,,,,so now i feel its time to look
at the option of a more natural approach,,,

i would be really grateful to hear any of your opions and thoughts about Nat IVF....many Drs i have seen dont seem to give it much respect..

Kind regards
Chelly x


----------



## GJB66

Hello ladies,

Annabell - sorry I didn't reply to your question earlier - I have been away and not near anything resembling a computer for the last 3 weeks.

My first ivf cycle was a long protocol at John Radcliffe and I only produced 1 viable follicle. The second cycle was stimulated(mild) at Create and again - I only produced 1 egg so I thought there was no reason to pump more drugs into my system if I wasn't getting the benefit of more eggs/embryos. Since then I have been doing controlled natural cycles at Create. This way, there is more control as regards ensuring that egg collection happens before ovulation, and there are some drugs to take - but lower doses and for less time. BUT - I have had 1 cycle were there wasn't an egg at egg collection - so it can still happen.

If I produced more follicles/eggs - I would go with mild and would freeze embies, as I find the travelling and injecting for EC to be a big faff. The other pro for natural controlled is that it is cheaper than mild - both the cost of the treatment and the drugs. But then - if you get more embryos from a mild cycle and then do frozen ET's - it may well work out to cost about the same.  

If you don't want to do mild, have you also thought about perhaps using frozen sperm? I have done this for a few cycles and sometimes the frozen is better quality than the fresh.

I would recommend talking it through with someone (perhaps Donna?) at Create. Good luck with making the right decision for you.

Chelly - welcome to the board. Were the blood clots on your lungs from the drugs you took for ivf? If not - I am not sure other than the obvious benefit of not taking as many drugs - I am not sure that natural ivf is going to be any better. It can take longer to fall pregnant doing natural (as you usually only have 1 embryo) and there is a higher chance of ovulation happening before egg collection. I think that natural or natural controlled ivf is a good option for someone who only produces a few or one follicle. 

You can also do natural controlled - which is a low dose and shorter protocol ivf. There is more control over early ovulation, but no guarantees.

I am not sure what the statistics are at Create for success of natural vs natural controlled vs stimulated (mild) for the different age groups. I think I have seen some stats in the literature at the clinic - but don't know what these are.

Might be worth having a chat with your local clinic to discuss the options they offer, and what the success rates are.

Fingers crossed for all cycling ladies and those taking a break.

Bee


----------



## Sunshine42

Hello everyone,

Hope you are all well.

Buffy - I've been listening to the Zita West visualisation cd's this month, they are sooo relaxing, especially on the train home from work...

You will have seen from my previous posts that I was due to start a natural cycle again this week, I was expecting to go for a FSH blood test tomorrow or Friday.  Well, I went to Create today but it was for a preg blood test, and it was a BFP  

I had good results so next stage is a scan booked for Feb 3rd.  I'm still in shock, and nervously thrilled, didn't go to work today and not sure my DH has actually done any work today. Its a case of one hour at a time...

Sunshine xx


----------



## GJB66

Congratulations Sunshine!! I have my scan tomorrow - so am definitely in the one hour at a time club with you.


----------



## Sunshine42

Good luck tomorrow


----------



## NatashaM

Woo! Sunshine, that is fantastic. Congratulations! This is a totally natural pregnancy I take it?

Chelly - I haven't had natural IVF, only mild. As you know, they can only use the one egg that is produced that month and sometimes there isn't an egg in the follicle or the egg is missed. I'm so sorry for everything that you have been through, it's been a difficult journey for you. I would talk to the clinic that you've found and ask them about their success rates.

Buffy - Did your period come yet?

cwsg - Has baby turned? I hope so. 

Flower - How are you doing?

Annabell - I think if I were you I would trust my intuition and give mild a go. It gives you a better chance and as has been said, Create are very careful about how much stimulation they use.

I'm 31w3d today. I'm now on Beta Blockers and having to go to King's a couple of times a week to check my blood pressure. Even with the tablets it is about 130/90 so I'm nervous even though I'm not feeling ill, but then you'd don't feel anything with high blood pressure. I don't have any protein in my urine or any other pre eclampsia signs. Sometimes I feel ok, but then I go and read about it on the internet and get panicked. Solution = don't read about high blood pressure in pregnancy on the internet. 

Lulu, Clare, Sue, Susie, Bee - hope you are all ok.

Lots of love,
N xx


----------



## Peppermint Patty

Hi all

I have just found your board as i may be going to have a initial consultation with Create at the beginning of February and i have a few queries.

How long would it be before I could commence treatment, either Mild or Natural, after the first consultation?

How many visits are needed, especially around EC and transfer, as i need to travel from the north east? Do you think this could be an issue for me?

Sunshine - Congratulations on the BFP!!!

Wishing you all on this thread the best of luck!

Peppermint Patty.


----------



## NatashaM

Hi Patty,

I don't know how long it would be for you to start treatment, I guess it depends what and how many tests they want to do on you. They might want a fresh day 3 hormone blood test and I'm pretty sure they will want to do their own sperm analysis on your husband too. So maybe one month depending on where you are in your cycle when you have that first appointment.

Apart from your inital consultation, if you are having mild IVF you'll need another appointment with the nurse to go through how you take the drugs - they call that the induction. Then when you commence treatment you'd actually need to stay in London for between 17 and 21 days because they need to scan you every other day from day 5 of your cycle (the day your period starts is day one) until you are about ready to ovulate. Then you have to have the egg/s collected under sedation and THEN you have to wait either 3 or 5 days for the embryos/blastocysts to grow and be replaced.


----------



## suesunday

Sunshine! Amazing! Congratulations! I'm very pleased for you. More great news for 2010!  

Buffy - I've never skipped a period with stress or sickness - just delayed them.  Any sign yet? 

Natasha - you said it! Stop looking at the internet!! Although, it's easier to say than do. It's good that you are being checked so regularly. What nice things are you doing for yourself at the moment? I remember reading that meditation is very good for blood pressure, although it sounds a bit like a hippy faff to do, doesn't it? Do more nice stuff though. 

Annabell - tricky one, and ultimately only you can make that call. So far, my least favourite bit was the EC (although it really wasn't bad - just feels very serious!), so I guess if you can do that, you can do the injections. As lots of others have said, Create seems to have a very good record on OHSS - no hospitalisations I believe. And from a quick look at the other boards, it looks fairly frequent in other places. 

Patty & Chelly - not sure, as a newbie, I can improve on the answers that others have given. Best of luck to you whatever you choose. 

Hope everything's going well with everyone else.

I had EC yesterday and had 5 eggs, 3 have fertilised, going for transfer on Saturday. 

Laters lovely ladies. 

Sue


----------



## cwsg

I HAVE GOOD NEWS. MY BABY HAS TURNED HEAD DOWN ON THE SCAN TODAY!!! SO NO ECV OR C-SECTION FOR ME. 

I'M SO HAPPY      

Just need it to stay and engage, so will do deep squats and anything else i can find out about. Such a massive relief.......
We also saw it now has chubby cheeks   

cwsg xx


----------



## mangoeater

Hi Ladies,
I've been lurking for a while, reading when I have time. Its really lovely to hear about all your high and low points. 

I changed from ARGC to Create in about October. I'm in early 40s and a poor responder. I was very impressed by Dr N and her caring attitude, and by the nurses I met. For first 2 months after seeing Dr N, AF didnt come, for some odd reason. When it finally did and I had a scan, they said I had huge cysts which should disappear (so I just paid for that scan and went home). The next month, they thought they saw follicles, then the 2nd scan showed they were mistaken, and it was really cysts. So no ivf cycle either.

Now, unfortunately I have some negative things I need to share, if I may, because I've had a terrible day today... Hope you can understand.

After this last scan wehre they said I actually had cysts, I was supposed to get a refund, but after 5 weeks of patiently waiting, I still had no refund. After weeks and weeks of patiently calling, I was finally told that they changed their prices and financial policies. So apparently I get to pay £750 for the privelege of never having even gone ahead w a cycle. Its called an "abandoned cycle". Apparently they've changed the policy for what is considered a "cancelled cycle", where its only considered that if the patient voluntarily cancels their first scan before they even have a first scan. 

In my induction, I was told that if you ring them on day 1 and go in for your first day 5 scan, if that scan shows no activity appropriate for an ivf cycle, they'll say "no go", and you just pay £175 for that scan. And that indeed happened the first month I did that. Without a question. 

Now, they say they no longer do that. Actually, they implied that what I was told in my induction was wrong. Now, they say even if you have just one scan, and the Dr says "no go" (ie if you have no follicles or too small follicles or cysts), you have to pay £750 JUST for that one scan -- because its already considered an "abandoned cycle". Imagine that! I told them that their price list did not adequately explain the difference between "cancelled " and "abandoned" cycle. I also said that for women who are more likely to be told each month that their follicles are not big enough or some other reason that the ivf cycle cant proceed, its ridiculous to go in month after month, have just 1 scan, and pay £750 each and every month just for the privilege of being told "no." 

BTW, their most recent price list increased everything by a mere £5; but the "abandoned cycle" fee went up by a whopping £250.

Am I alone in being confused by this new policy?

I'm so upset by this situation.It has been so stressful to wait more than a month for a refund, only to be told I would barely be getting a refund -- and that in the future I may have to pay £750 every month. I understand they have to make money, but it seems like they're creating a situation that women have no option in. Its hard to feel upset towards the clinic that is supposed to be helping you.  Its not like I can just "take my business away" because they are my last hope. I'm sorry to begin my first post in this forum with such negativity, but I would love to know if I'm the only person who has been confused by their recent policy. 

Thanks and lots of light and peace.


----------



## NatashaM

Hi Mangoeater,

I am so sorry that they have treated you this way. 

The cycle before the one in which I conceived using a frozen embryo, I had a scan at the beginning and had two blood filled cysts on the ovary where they'd done egg collection the previous, unsuccessful cycle and they recommended I leave it for another month so we just paid for that one scan and waited until the next month. I think that was back in April 2009.

I don't think there's any excuse for calling one scan an 'abandoned cycle'. I am quite cross on your behalf. Can you make sure that is their policy by asking for it in writing? If so, the HFEA may have something to say about it. It seems extortionate to me. Were you going for a natural cycle this time? Or had you paid for drugs in advance and started taking them?


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## annabell99

Hi all!

Sorry I've been quiet for a while- it's all been getting to me so I've been to the doc several times for anxiety and stress (can't eat, sleep etc   )...the trouble is they can't do much about it as they don't want to give medication with IVF coming up  

Thank you everyone for your advice and comments about what to do next, it's been a real help! We have decided to go for a mild cycle and I have been for the induction (which was much less complicated than I expected!) and am now waiting for AF to arrive. Typically AF is late   but I did a HPT today and no miracles for me this time so just have to wait!

Sunshine - CONGRATULATIONS!     That is brilliant news! Did you suspect it at all or was it a big surprise? 

Buffy- I wasn't aware there were more than one type of Dr Red drink - I've been trying the blueberry punch one. It is (like all these things!) expensive but you dilute it and it lasts quite a while. Have you got your AF yet? I don't know if you can skip it through stress or illness but you can delay your ovulation through stress or illness and therefore AF is later.

Chelly- Natural IVF is a great idea if you can't or don't want to do the "usual" version. The downside is that you might not get an egg or it might not fertilise, so you have to be prepared for it to take several goes. From personal experience I would say that the idea of "several goes" sounds easy enough when you start out but it gets harder to believe it will work.

Bee- Wow you were very patient! Thanks for the info, it is good to know that it can work eventually even if it does take a while!

Hi Patty- I think Natasha has answered your questions really well so I don't have anything to add- but welcome to the board!

Sue- Congrats on the EC, good luck for Sunday!   

CWSG- Congrats on the baby turning !   

xxx


----------



## annabell99

Sorry Mangoeater- for some reason I didn't see your message when I wrote earlier..


I don't see why you should have to pay for an "abandoned cycle" after only one scan. Surely you should just pay for the scan (and any drugs you have taken) as you have not actually used any more of their time etc?

You should certainly follow it up with them further.   

Sorry to anyone I have missed and I hope all are well 

xxx


----------



## Mrs ABA

Hello ladies,

Can I join you?  I'm a poor responder (3 IUIs and 1 failed IVF) and have only managed to produce 3 follicles (on clomid).  I also have a tendency to ovulate early.  I went to an open day with Create and really liked it so am thinking of doing IVF with them.  But I'm a little concerned about early ovulation and how disappointing it must be if no egg is found.

What are your thoughts?

ps - I can't work out how to change my signature    can anyone tell me?

pps - I'll ask the question about cancelled cycles at my induction and let you know what they say.  I had an abandoned cycle at another clinic after 3 scans and they did not charge me.

thanks

A
x


p


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## Peppermint Patty

Hi thanks for all the well wishes.

Can someone please tell me which drugs are needed for the mild ivf and how much they spent on them?

Mrs ABA - you can change your signature by going to your profile ( link at the top ) and then clicking on Forum Profile Information, the box with your signature is about half way down.

PP xxx


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## NatashaM

Patty - re the drugs, I think they are about between £1500 - £2000 altogether. 

It depends if you do a long protocol or a short one.

If long, you have to dowregulate with Buserelin or similar. That's not very expensive.

What is expensive is the stimulating drug. It comes in a pen which you keep in the fridge and that costs about £900 for a full pen or £450 for a half one (I had one of each). Obviously it depends what dose you have to take as to how many pens you need. 

Then the third drug is the single trigger shot that you do at the end of stimulation to mature the eggs. That is like HCG and costs about £7. 

Then Progesterone pessaries for after embryo transfer - I can't remember how much they are - and you will need to take them until you are 12 weeks pregnant if the treatment has worked.


----------



## Buffy68

Hello everyone

My AF never did turn up.  On day 36 I found I was ovulating using the pee stick.  So either I skipped my period and went straight into my next cycle or it was a very delayed ovulation indeed!  However, I am sure this was brought about by my feeling so ill over the Christmas period so am just glad to be getting back into the swing of things.  DH and I tried a little natural baby making that evening.  (What a good sport he is!  )

Chellymadrid - I am sorry to hear about your experiences.  I am not surprised you are trying to think of more healthy alternatives.  Natural IVF is not popular with many clinics because it does not bring the instant results that they are looking for.  The odds of getting pregnant on each cycle are much like the odds of getting pregnant naturally (assuming no blockages etc).  So you can expect it to take a few goes.  Also they have to work with the natural rhythms of your body rather than dictate the timings themselves.  It's probably worth investigating at your local clinics, and maybe some of them do mild cycles as well, if you are a good responder.

Bee - I think your logic re doing natural is sound, is this how you got pregnant?  As you say, why pump lots of drugs into your body if you're going to get the same result as doing a natural controlled cycle.  As for getting no egg sometimes - I think this can happen whatever protocol you are using.  Maybe it just depends on the state of your body and the amount of stress in your life at the time you are doing the cycle.  How did your scan go?

Sunshine - congratulations on your surprise pregnancy!  I am so envious, I think this is what we all hope will happen.  I hope you don't mind if I ask why you needed IVF in the first place?  I hope you are feeling OK and looking after yourself.  Make sure you get lots of rest in these early weeks.

Natasha - STOP LOOKING UP HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE ON THE INTERNET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Have you got some relaxation or meditation tapes you can listen to instead?

Peppermint Patty - Natasha answered your questions in depth, just to add they say you can start your cycle the next month after all the tests etc have been completed.  Usually it just takes a while to get your first appointment with Geeta.  Travelling from the north east will be an issue for you, have you got anyone you could stay with for at least part of the time?

Sue - well done for your 3 fertilisations.  I hope all continues to go well and you have a happy ET on Saturday.   Remember to visualise welcoming them into their new home (as Zita West says)!

cwsg - glad to hear your baby is being accomodating.  Everything gearing up for the birth now.  We look forward to the photos (just kidding)  .

Mangoeater - I really feel for you with the disappointment/concern re cysts and then feeling you are being fleeced at the same time pushing you over the edge.    I have never had a refund for abandoned cycles, they just knock it off the next month's charge.  It seems a bit steep to pay the full charge for an abandoned cycle after only one scan though.  Who told you this was now the case?  I think it might be something to take up with Geeta.  I do know that according to the HFEA rules Create have to register the cycle from when the first scan is booked, so it's possible this is also affecting the charging??

Annabell - sorry to hear it's been getting to you.     It's a catch 22 situation where you need to be relaxed to maximise your fertility but the mere fact of doing IVF is guaranteed to stop you feeling relaxed!!  Since December I have been having therapy with a very good woman because I felt it was getting too much for me emotionally, and it seems to have helped.  Maybe this is something for you to consider?  Has your AF arrived yet?  I don't suppose PMT will be making you feel any better right now.

Mrs Aba - welcome to the board.  Are you hoping to try a natural or mild cycle?


----------



## lulumead

hello all,

sorry been a bit absent, busy week and frankly trying not to think too much about TTC at the moment. 

Wow, long list now of Create-er's which is fab!

Buffy: hope the natural baby making has worked, or if not was at least good fun    Wish I could try some of that way too!

Sunshine: how you feeling? all going ok so far?

CWSG: not long now, we're all a bit excited on here I think    glad bubs is in the right position now.

Sue: hope the embies are settling in well, good luck for the 2WW, hope you bring some more positive news on here.

Mrs ABA: I really like Create, although hasn't worked yet for me. I'm sure they will monitor you closely if you are worried about early ovulation. No egg would be hard but I think this is a long game so maybe with natural it makes it easier to think of it in blocks of three tries?  This is what I tend to do, try 3 goes of something then rethink.  Who knows if thats a good plan or not!

Patty: sounds about right what you've been quoted for drugs but it basically relies on how much you need....it is ridiculously expensive.  I think you end up becoming immune to it all and start to think wow £80 for a blood test thats very reasonable  

annabell: hope you get going soon  

mangoeater: that sounds pretty appalling actually, I would definitely raise it with them - sounds a bit unfair if you ask me, and will not do the clinic any favours if they start treating people in this way. Word gets round.

natasha: hope you are relaxing and getting that blood pressure down, no googling for you!

Chellymadrid: I haven't done natural IVF yet but scientifically I think it makes a lot of sense, and was the way that the 1st test tube baby was born! Hope you come to a decision that works for you soon. 

Hello Bee, not sure have said hi to you before  

Phew....hope I didn't unintentionally miss anyone out.  

I'm off for my HSG on Wednesday, really really not looking forward to it. Ended up crying when I made my appointment as I didn't think they'd be able to see me this month, my tears helped I think - as the nurse found me a space. Then I asked to speak to the radiologist as I am so worried that the same thing will happen as last time when my tubes spasm'd and the test was inconclusive, I wanted them to give me something to help. They have said there isn't anything they can do.  So I emailed Geeta and she suggested a Voltarol tablet which is only a pain killer, so I don't really see how that will help. I'm tempted to take a valium - something I have never done in my life, but will calm me down - Geeta didn't answer whether I could do this. She just reiterated taking Voltarol, which I now have to try and get from Create before Wednesday.... grrrrr... I'm sure they think I am kicking up a total fuss. I am honestly not a wuss about any of the prodding and poking we have to go through, but my last experience was traumatic and left me in     plus I never found out conclusively if my tubes are ok or not. Anyway, blah blah blah!!!!!!!

Send me some calming vibes and I really hope this time it doesn't hurt....also need to get into my head that tubes might actually be blocked in which case no switching back to IUI for me, so I'll need to rethink my plan.

xxx


----------



## Mrs ABA

Lulumead - good luck!  Suggest you might want to ask Geeta if it would be ok if you took some valerian.  It's a very mild relaxing herb often taken for insomnia and available from all chemists over the counter.  It's also the herb that valium was originally taken from.  It takes about half an hour to kick in.

Someone asked for costs of the pessaries.  My old clinic charged 60 quid for 2 weeks worth.

I'm hoping to do mild IVF.

A
x


----------



## Sunshine42

Hello Ladies,

Wow, so many of us now, I have managed to read through all the posts and hope I don't leave anyone out!

Lulumead - you can also get valerian tea, I have used this on several occasions if I've been stressing about something or have had a few nights of no sleep, I have a cup of valerian tea about an hour before bed and have a wonderful nights sleep... Although it can leave you a little groggy in the morning for half hour or so, but worth it for the wonderful sleep!

Mrs Aba - welcome to the thread. I've had only one cycle at Create - on day 8 when I had a large follicle they did a blood test to check that I hadn't started the surge that leads to ovulation, so going on that experience I think they must check for early ovulation. Good luck.

Annabell - sorry to hear you are feeling stressed, have you tried any relaxtion or meditation cd's? I find them really useful, its something about the soothing voice and music... hope you are feeling a bit happier soon.

Mangoeater - I am a bit shocked by your post, that does seem a high price for an abandoned cycle, I checked my price list but it is dated June 09 and to be honest isn't completely clear about the abandoned cycle fee, I hope you can get clarity on this.

Sue - Congrats on the ET, fingers crossed for the next 2 weeks, be positive!

Peppermint Patty - what a great name and welcome.

ChellyMadrid - also welcome, and as some of the other posts have said not sure I can add too much more, you've been given some great advice by the other members.

CJB66 - how did the sacn go?

Cwsg - So pleased that chubby checked baby decided to do the right thing and TURN !!

Natasha - I can only agree with all the other ladies - STOP reading the internet!! Sounds like you are getting well looked after with your twice weekly checks, again - I'm going to mention the meditation cd's - worth a try anyway. (they even relax me on a busy commuter train coming home from work).

Buffy - sorry you had to wait so long this cycle for a sign of something happening, but ovulation is great, lets hope for a little miracle.  

Thank you all for your lovely comments, I'm doing ok, still nervous having had m/c before, trying not to think of all the statistics for women my age etc. I've felt extremely tired, haven't slept that well, I did have preg symptoms before AF due but I put it down to bad PMT. What triggered me doing a home test, was that last Wed evening I was due to get my hair coloured and I know some say its not advisable if preg, so I just did a test to make sure, expecting it to be negative. Cancelled hair appt and now have lovely grey roots... small price to pay.

Buffy - the reason I started IVF was due to a high FSH reading last summer of 22, I saw a consultant through my GP who recommended an AMH test, which is apparently the best predictor of ovarian reserve. The result can range from 0 to around 45 I think, my came back as 0.78 which is in the undetectable range! The consultant recommended IVF with donor eggs. Also my DH sample was only Ok, not great but not a disaster. So that appt really kick started the IVF process, but I wanted to find a clinic who would work with what I had (one ovary, high FSh and low AMH), I wasn't ready for donor eggs. 

Well, must go make some lunch now, take care everyone and good luck.

Sunshine xxx


----------



## suesunday

Yo ladies, 
I had my ET yesterday - god bless them, they are so sweet at Create. It was really alright - and helped massively by how nice they were. I had a right dither about what to do. I had always intended to put just one in - I've a heart murmur and don't want to screw with it too much by risking twins. But the little 'uns weren't top quality (both grade 3, one 7 cell and one 3 cell), so I eventually went for the two. Now doing a bit of the 'god, what if I'm doing something wrong' stuff, but mostly enjoying the fact that hubbie is on strict orders to be nice to me (he he he) and enjoying the notion that there are two little ones in there. I really liked being pregnant before - and when I miscarried, I just wanted to be pregnant again straightaway - not even really to get a baby, just to be pregnant, if that makes any sense? 

Anyway, can I ask another Q? Did you all take aspirin from ET? I see conflicting reports about its impact on implantation. (Although given I'm one miscarriage and one chemical pregnancy down already, maybe there's a  reasonable case for me taking it.) 

Poor Lulu! God - I really feel for you. And you're such a sweet heart to everyone here. It's a right pain when you ask a specific Q and don't get a targeted answer back. Sending you calm wishes.    

Welcome Mrs Aba! 

Mangoeater - welcome also. That does sound really poor, and nonsensical. Have a double check with them, like others have said. It just can't be right, can it? It's bonkers. 

Excellent news cswg! 

Sunshine - ha ha! Grey roots are a small price to pay! Love that. You could henna your hair - but the bits already dyed might go green...Be an interesting look though. 

Love to everyone else - sorry, am being lazy, and also hubbie keeps waiting to see what I've ordered on the ocado shop which is what I'm currently pretending to do.  he he he. 

xxx


----------



## Buffy68

Hello again everyone, it's good to hear your updates.

Lulu - we'll be thinking of you on Wednesday,   be sure to let us know how you got on.  I can entirely understand your anxiety given your previous experiences.  I actually think a valium is a very good idea but you'll have to clear it with whoever is doing the procedure.  If not, I can also recommend the valerian teabags.  According to the internet, Voltarol are specifically for relieving the pain of muscle spasms, so that sounds like a good idea too.

Sunshine - hope you are managing to stay relaxed and positive!     I can imagine that an earlier miscarriage is not going to help, although obviously most women who have a miscarriage go on to have healthy babies.  I daresay when you get past the point of your previous miscarriage you'll feel a lot better.  Sorry to hear about your grey roots!  I really want to get my teeth brightened because they are somewhat stained from taking ginseng and general wear and tear but I don't dare whilst trying to get pregnant so I feel very self-conscious about them.  I'm so pleased you managed to get pregnant despite your high FSH and low AMH.  I can't believe how quickly western doctors write off your fertility when there seem to be scores of examples of women in your position who do fall pregnant, often naturally.  Donor eggs have been suggested to me too but that's not what I'm really interested in.

Sue - so glad to hear your ET went well.  It would be just typical if you now ended up with twins!!  At least they know about your heart murmur so would be able to take the proper precautions etc if it comes to that.  I have heard several instances (probably from some of the people on this board) of embryos not of top quality being the ones that work out whilst the ones that started out first class don't implant, so don't read too much into that.

Take care all
Buffy


----------



## mangoeater

Hi,
Thanks everyone for echoing my shock and confusion re Create's lack of response and bizarre rules. I wanted to share, so that none of you would have to go through the same thing. So please do confirm in advance what you're paying for, and why. Especially if you just come for one scan and they say "nay."

Yes I am doing natural cycle (altho I would anticipate taking some anti-ovulation drugs at some pt they said), but had not been at the point of taking drugs during either scans I had with them.

I'll follow it up a bit more with someone else and see what happens. It really is stressful, as I'd been waiting for more than a month for their response before. Now, who knows what will happen. Hopefully someone will understand and give clarity. But I do think that they need to seriously clarify the wording on their price list. If you think so too, DO feel free to ask about it and suggest it to them next time you speak to someone.

Thanks again for your support.   Let's see what happens..


----------



## annabell99

Hi all!

Just a quick post to say I have my first scan of the cycle in the morning- please all   that it will be ok!

There seemed to be a lot of confusion (probably my fault! ) as to whether the scan should be on day 5 of AF or day 5 of taking the injections (which start in the evening of day 2 of AF). Tomorrow is day 5 of AF so by tomorrow morning I will only have had 3 injections (day 2,3 and 4 of AF). That seems to me a bit soon to see if anything is happening, but we will see   .

Mangoeater- good luck with following up with Create.  I paid for my whole cycle when I went for the induction so now worried about what happens if tomorrow's scan is no good. I didn't think to ask at the time of paying what the rules were.

Buffy- Hope you are ok and   for the natural babymaking! Have you tried the boots teeth whitening applications? There is one where you melt plastic gum shields to fit your mouth and it is quite effective (no dazzlingly white results, but if you do it every day for a month or so it definitely has a positive effect). I don't know whether is is ok in pregnancy but as you don't actually swallow the stuff it might be?

Sunshine- So good to hear such a happy story! Henna might help with the roots, or natural dye from a herbal shop? I guess it's not really such a worry for you now!  

Sue- Good luck with the little embies!    I have taken aspirin each time as instructed by Create, obviously hasn't helped yet but I don't see how it can hurt? It is such a small amout each day.

Lulu - good luck for Weds. Could you ask your GP about valium? Otherwise maybe try the extra-strength AF painkillers? I also had a truly horrible HSG so I really feel for you.  I think you are very brave, I would not want to have to do it again.

A question about valerian for those who suggested it- is it ok to take this all the time? Might it help with my anxiety issues?

Hello to everyone, apologies I don't have time for personal messages for all today but lots of love and  

xx


----------



## Peppermint Patty

Hi all

Thanks for all your kind words and welcomes.

Sunshine - your bloods results are similar to mine and i guess to a lot of ff on here. Your result gives us all hope  . Had you ever tried the mild ivf or just natural? 

DH is not keen on travelling all the way to London to Create and i must admit Mangoeater's financial problems with them have put me off abit  . 

I already knew that Hull do mild ivf and Leeds do natural ivf so it looks like i may try one of these instead as time / distance etc would be easier. At the end of the day its the same treatment as Create ( thou i know Create maybe have more experience with "older" women and poor responders like me and success rates will be different ) . Both need referral letter from GP.

The only problem i have is which do i chose - natural or mild? That is why i am asking Sunshine if you have ever had mild treatment. I have never got to the EC stage as i have never really responded to the down reg of std ivf. So i could go and have the natural option and find out if there are any eggs left etc as this would be the cheapest way. Or i could try the mild, more chance of eggs being there but more expensive ( but money is not the issue here, rather have the treatment that will work first time ). 

I have already got my GP to write to Leeds but having second thoughts about Hull and don't want GP thinking I'm nuts changing my mind etc (i already pester them enough!).

Any thoughts girls on which option is best for me will be gladly received  .

PP XXX


----------



## Sunshine42

Hi Patty,

just a quick answer - 

The choice of mild or natural IVF was determined by my FSH blood test result on Day 1 of my AF, I think if above 12 Create only offer natural IVF, or lower than 12 then you are offered mild. My last FSH was 16.5.

Good luck,

Sunshine xx


----------



## annabell99

Hi all-

I had my first scan this morning (although apparantly as I suspected it was meant to be tomorrow - day 6 of AF and day 5 of injections) and all seems to be progressing VERY quickly... womb lining already 7mm and follies already 14mm. I have no idea how this can have happened, especially the womb lining, as I only finished AF on Sunday. Can it have grown 7mm overnight?

Anyway, I have to take cetrotide (to stop ovulation) as well as Gonal F from tonight, next scan is on Thurs and maybe EC on Sat. Which would only be day 9 of my cycle   

I guess this is not bad news as such but it does seem odd. Has any one else had much shorter cycles than usual when taking Gonal F? I'm on a very low dose- 112.5iu - so I really wasn't expecting so much difference to usual.

Patty- We're tried natural several times but were disheartened by no egg collected last time and have changed to mild to (hopefully  ) avoid a repeat of that. I would have prefered natural to work and intended to try it for longer but found the stress was getting too much and therefore changed to mild which will hopefully provide a quicker result    

Lots of love to all, sorry this is a me post but a bit worried about the super speed of lining and follie growth. In fact went all dizzy after the scan which was a bit embarrassing  

xx


----------



## NatashaM

Annabell - probably just as well they scanned you today rather than tomorrow if things are moving so fast. I didn't get a shorter cycle with Gonal F - it went pretty much as my normal cycles do (I ovulate late - day 16 or 17) and I think it worried them a bit that I wasn't responding enough because they upped the dose of Gonal F about day 13 and delayed collection until day 18 or 19 as I recall. 

BUT - I think this looks good for you, if everything is responding this well you'll probably get lots of eggs and a nice long luteal phase. I think it sounds very positive! 

They're going to keep scanning you until they get to the optimal day for collection and they've given you the Cetrotide to make absolutely sure that you don't ovulate before that. You can trust them, they do know what they're doing. Be happy! 

cswg - So glad baby has turned! Fantastic news. Mine is still breech at 32 weeks. 

My BP is down a little bit this week with the additional dose of beta blockers and I'm having another check on Thursday. I feel pretty good in myself. Pelvis is a bit sore if I walk a lot like I did yesterday. I have been listening to my hypnotherapy recording which does help with relaxation. 

I hope everyone else is ok, sorry there are so many people now I can't reply individually but I have read all your posts and am thinking of you all. 

N xx


----------



## lulumead

hello lovelies,

Just popping on as off to bed to pop up my anti-biotic before HSG tomorrow....finally got a Voltarol from Create, oh joy another suppository    so really hoping it eases the pain and no tubal spasms tomorrow....so want to be able to do IUI's...

lots of love to you all
xxx

PS annabell, all sounding good...I think the drugs can do all sorts of different things with timings but you are being carefully monitored and sometimes I think it can be really fast to begin with and then slow down a bit...means less days of drug taking which is good.


----------



## cwsg

lulumead - good luck for tomorrow

cwsg


----------



## suesunday

Annabell - when I was at Create recently Freda said that some people only get to have one scan! So presumably it can be even quicker than with you! I only had two scans before I went for EC, and my EC was on day 11 of my cycle - a bit faster than normal for me too. Don't worry my sweet - you're doing really mild stims, and you'll get a nice batch of eggs. (When your AF finished won't be affecting it, I don't think - just when AF and thus the injections started, so it's not like something bonkers happened overnight.)   

Am currently driving myself mental with - what if juddering bus made them fall out?  Is AF type pain a bad thing? Is no pain a bad thing? La la la. Mental. Spare. Bonkers. Cuckoo. (It's alright - I know they can't fall out. Doesn't stop the madness though, does it?)  

Yeah - double good luck Lulu. Ease those bum bullets in for all of us!  

Love to all
Sue


----------



## Buffy68

Annabell - I'm hardly an expert as I've never had stimulation but it just sounds like you are a sensitive responder to the drugs.  I think often the first time round they are working out how your body works with different drugs etc.  I am sure if there was cause for concern they would have mentioned it.  The womb lining could start to thicken from the day you take the drugs (day 2 did you say?) even if you were still spotting at the time.  The womb lining and follie sizes are consistent and this is what's important.  Look after yourself and   for your scan tomorrow.  I'll look into the Boots tooth whitening product.   As for the valerian tea, I drink it every night in bed although they say once your pregnant you should stop.  This is only because no research has been done to see if there are any side effects on the embryo, not because it is known to be unsafe.

Mangoeater - I intend to ask when I book a scan for the next cycle I will do with Create (probably in March) about the scan pricing policy.  Are you going to do your next natural cycle with them?

Peppermint Patty - As Sunshine said, natural is the better option for older women/women with high fsh.  There's no point flogging a horse which is already struggling.  Don't count on mild IVF working first time.  As I was saying to Annabel, it sometimes takes more than one go just to see how each invididual reacts to certain drugs.  Anyone who falls pregnant on their first IVF treatment is fortunate.

Natasha - happy to hear your blood pressure is a bit lower; it sounds like those tapes are doing you good!

Lulu - hope all went well today.

Sue - try to stay calm (well, we all need to do that LOL) and keep yourself to busy to indulge in madness.


----------



## annabell99

Hi all-

Thank you so much for the reassurance, it's good to know that I haven't managed the most unheard-of follie growth in history!   

I had a Cetrotide injection for the first time last night and I have to say I DO NOT like it -the injection itself caused swelling and itching, but the strangest bit was that it was followed last night by total euphoria (honestly, I was so happy I couldn't sit still), and then this morning by total inertia, shakes and depression.  I'm really not looking forward to a repeat experience tonight    Still at least if the speedy growth continues I won't have to do too many more! 

Buffy- thanks for the info on valerian tea, I have been drinking camomile but I will try valerian for a change.

Lulu- I'm thinking of you, I hope the HSG goes well    Let us know  . Typical that the Voltarol would be a suppository!  

Natasha- good that the BP is under control - good luck for the check on Thurs  

Sue- As far as I have been able to establish, NOTHING stops the madness!  At least this is a place where the madness is fully understood   

Lots of love to everybody, you are all in my thoughts

xxx


----------



## lulumead

Hello Annabell...
I remember cetrotide being a bit itchy but didn't get the euphoria or shakes...I think generally though you can begin to feel a bit weird on the drugs after a few days, which is why I couldn't imagine doing long protocols.  Hopefully it will be over soon  

Thanks for all the lovely thoughts...tubes are all ok...yippeeeeeeeeee       
Was still really painful      but at least the result was good so was worth the ten minutes of agony.

Just have to get blood test results now.

Love to you all...
xx


----------



## Sunshine42

Hello All,

Lulu - great news re the tubes, shame you had to go through some discomfort though. Now onto the blood tests, fingers crossed there too.  

Natasha - glad the BP is down, you must be doing something right... keep up that relaxation.

Annabell - as others have said, the reactions to the drugs is probably really individual, I'm sure the staff at Create could reassure you that infact all is just as it should be. Good luck with the scan tomorrow.

Sue - I think we all understand your madness.... I'm going thro a kind of madness too, the joy of last weeks result is now a nervous anxiety and with every twinge I rush to the loo... I saw my acupuncturist last night who was very kind and targeted some points to ease my worried mind, I think it worked a bit - for an hour or two today I forgot about worrying! 

Buffy - You are right that western medicine almost rights off our fertility over a certain age and I think the verdicts they deliver e.g. your only hope is donor eggs, can be devastating, I know I really struggled after being told that last year, I definietly prefer the eastern approach! How are things with you?

To all those I haven't mentioned sending you big positive vibes...

Sunshine xxxx


----------



## Peppermint Patty

Thanks Sunshine, Buffy and Annabell for the advice, its appreciated.

Love to all

PP xxx


----------



## NatashaM

Oh *Lulu* that is fantastic news about the tubes! Yippee! Sorry it was painful, but I'm sure the result made up for it. Good luck for the blood tests. When do you get the results?

*Sue* - good luck with the two week wait. I know how it feels like forever. I actually did a home pregnancy test 10 days after transfer and got a very very faint second line that was barely visible. Then I did another one the next day and it was slightly darker and then I used an expensive clearblue digital on day 12 and it said 1-2 weeks pregnant. And yes, I did take aspirin up to 12 weeks. Also I think we all feel pretty mad during that time. If you read back a lot of us confessed to worrying about squeezing them out when trying to do number twos. Crazy.

*Sunshine* - Hope you are doing ok. I know how nerve wracking the early days are and I imagine they are even worse if you've already suffered a miscarriage.

I hope *Clare* is ok. She hasn't posted for a while (since the 7th).

I've got another appointment at blood pressure clinic this afternoon.

Lots of love to all,

N xx


----------



## annabell99

Hi all!

Just back from the scan and the follie growth has slowed so I have another scan tomorrow and EC is now probably on Monday. After all the worrying I am now quite disappointed that it has slowed down as this means more injections and more waiting   . Still hopefully everything will be good on Monday.   It looked today as if there might be 5 follicles of a good size which is really good news.

Cetrotide wasn't so bad last night but feeling generally knackered and tearful all the time now which I guess may be due to the cumulative injections. A slightly TMI question to anyone who has done the Gonal F thing- did you get lots of EWCM   ? I keep panicking that it might mean I am about to ovulate, but maybe it is just one of the effects of the Gonal F?

Lulu- That's brilliant news about the tubes! I am so pleased for you!    Are you going ahead with IUI now?

Sunshine- I hope you are doing well. I can imagine that it is still very nerve wracking   . I wonder sometimes if fertility treatment ladies ever manage to stop worrying before the birth? I guess most people consider that a +ve HPT means they will definitely have a baby and never have any reason to worry or doubt it. 

Patty- I hope we have helped with your decision. It's really difficult to know what to do for the best but i hope you come to an answer which is right for you   Let us know how you get on! 

Natasha- Good luck with the blood pressure appointment!  

Lots of love to all

xx


----------



## suesunday

Oh, I just couldn't resist getting back to you, Annabell on the EWCM question... I'd never seen anything like it in my life! Sorry to turn into a 13 year old but OMG! It was, er, on the abundant side. I even found myself mentioning that I'd never seen the likes of it to Prof Campbell and both him and the nurse cracked up. So, don't worry - it's normal although very very odd. The cetrocide will make sure you don't pop! 

Lulu - get in there on the excellent tubes. Well done! So now maybe IUI?  

Sunshine - thanks for the reassurance on the madness. I think I miscarried just a couple of months after you in 2008, and (god willing) if I nail it this year, I won't be the totally laid back woman I once was about it. You should get a really early NHS scan - 7 weeks - as you've had a miscarriage. Are you booked up? That will make you feel better ...for a day or so I should imagine before the madness kicks in again! Sending you a few more happy vibes to balance the fear out a bit!    

Natasha! I can't believe you're practically encouraging someone on the 2ww to do early testing!    It's like dangling sweets in front of a child.    Er herm. Hope the blood pressure is continuing to abate. Fingers crossed for you. 

Bless you all for the good wishes for the 2ww. I really do appreciate it. Thanks ladies. Actually feel a bit down just waiting - glad I'm not at work, but feel a bit lost just hanging around. (Esp as carting big heavy bagfulls of shopping back from the west end is currently off limits!) And now a bit nervous about going back to work on Monday - I don't want to do anything that might mess it up (and then on the other hand I know I may well not be pregnant and so I'm worrying about nothing). Blah blah! 

Oh, and because I'm pottering around all week, I heard Prof Campbell on Radio 4 the other day talking about ultrasound and its impact on medicine and more widely on society and stuff. He was there at the birth of fetal ultrasound apparently. Quite interesting if any of you are as bored as me and a fan of Listen Again. (Although I do actually have a 'business plan' to do for work, and a hundred articles to read. Strangely still not bored enough to do them... Um, when does Come Dine With Me start?) 

Laters lovely ladies
Sue


----------



## annabell99

Sue - Thanks for getting back to be on the EWCM       I'm glad it's not just me! I hope you are ok today and not worrying too much about going back to work on Monday. It might be good to take your mind off testing... when is your OTD? 

I had another scan today and EC is now TUESDAY   ... have to be patient.... good news is that there are now around 10 follies of a good size and the blood tests indicate that many of them should contain eggs.    

Lots of love to all

xxx


----------



## Buffy68

Hello all

My AF came earlier than expected (or later, depending on how you look at it).  The good news is that I have had hardly any pain, so maybe my new diet is reaping benefits (my phlegm and sore throat problems are much better too).  If this current cycle is reasonably regular I'll go for a natural cycle next time.  I had a really strange experience the day before AF when my sense of smell seemed magnified x10.  It only lasted one evening and the next day my AF arrived.  Does anyone else get this?

Annabell - glad to hear your follicles are shaping up and everything is looking good.  Hope you are able to take it easy this weekend in prep for EC early next week.  One never gets used to the fact that every scan one seems to get told something different!  I think EWM is as a result of high oestrogen levels.  Sometimes I have a little bit in my final week of my cycle   I find cetrotide injections nasty too, although I seem to have missed out on the euphoria!

Sue - have a relaxing weekend and don't worry about going back to work on Monday; you rested at the really crucial part.  Good luck when it comes to the test!

Clare - hope you can give as an update sometime soon  

Lulu - glad to hear your news  , do you know when you are going to try the IUI?


----------



## ClareTG

Hey all

Natasha & Buffy - you're quite right i haven't posted in a while but i've been reading & trying to keep up with everyone. 

I've been having a challenging time shall we say with the old morning sickness. Goodness me it's really floored me & mostly in the evenings when i'd like to have been up to posting supportive messages to everyone!  The retching that started around week 7 has become full on vomiting (TMI?!) & i've been trying all sorts of tips to ease it to not much luck. Some days it hits me in the morning, some days on & off all day & i've even had the pleasure of running to the loo at work. It's week 11 now as of yesterday so i hope that it starts to ease off soon. It's all a good sign i'm told.  And of course i don't want anyone to think i'm whinging about it - naturally i'll gladly rise to the challenge!

Natasha - glad your BP is down - you must be very relieved. Hope your last BP check was as good.

Buffy - i've had that smell sensation before - it's very strange - like breathing with an extra strong peppermint. My sense of smell now is also a bit crazy  - a lot of smells really get to me  - a lot turning my stomach - even usually pleasant smells like my face creams or shower gels.  Glad you're feeling better & your throat is improving - you'll have to share your good diet tips.

Lulu - glad your tubes are clear - that's great news. Bet you're glad the HSG is over - well done for braving it. Hope the blood tests bring a good result.

Annabel - that's fab news about your follies - really hoping Tuesday goes well - crossing everything for you.

Sue - hope you're bearing up in the 2WW. Both times I was paranoid about anything & everything - feeling twinges & then lack of twinges. I went back to work sooner after my FET than the original IVF & even work stress didn't put off the little bundle embedding - as Buffy says you've done the crucial bit.

Sunshine - not sure i've congratulated you on your natural BFP - that is amazing news! I'd definitely push for an early pregnancy scan if i were you - the early one i had at Create were reassuring & i don't know how people wait for their 12week scan without going mad! I have mine at Kings College on the 10th Feb (& can't imagine not knowing anything from mid-december until then!)

Hello & love to everyone else too

xx


----------



## Ambition

Hi Everyone

I hope you don't mind me joining you on here.

I'm due to have my induction at Create on Feb 26th. Am planning on mild IVF because I've just lost a tube and am fed up of the natural approach not working. We have been able to conceive but i keep miscarrying -well, actually the last one was ectopic so I'm not sure it counts in the same way.

Anyway i wanted to ask... have any of you taken prednisolone as well as doing a mild or natural cycle with Create? My acupuncturist advised me not to mention it to them as they don't believe in Natural Killer Cells theory. But I just want to throw what i can at it to try to make the embies embed properly and not get rejected. I suppose i don't need to tell them but I'd feel weird about it!

Oh and I'll be asking them about that whole payment thing at my induction too thanks to you mangoeater. I hope it gets sorted out fairly for you.

Good luck everyone


----------



## annabell99

Hi all-

Egg collection went well yesterday (8 eggs collected, 7 mature and suitable for ICSI) but not so good news this morning as only 2 have fertilised. 

This is really low (usually 70% fertilise with ICSI) and the embryologist didn't know why. It is really strange as the other two times we have got to egg collection on a natural cycle we have had 100% fertilisation.

ET is tomorrow at 11.30 which is day 2. In the natural cycles we had embryo transfer on day 3 both times. I have a feeling that they have suggested day 2 this time because they don't think the embryos are good, because of the low fertilisation rate.

I know that having 2 embryos is still a positive thing and I should focus on that but I have gone from being really happy about the eggs yesterday to totally depressed this morning.    

I hope everyone is well

xxx


----------



## NatashaM

Annabell - I understand why you would be downhearted by the fact that there's only two fertilised. I'm so sorry... I hope you can stay positive and keep thinking the best for your two precious little embryos. I hope the transfer goes well and the two week wait isn't too stressful for you. Sending you lots of love and positive vibes.  

Ambition - Hi and welcome to the Create thread. Good luck with your mild cycle. I'm afraid I have never taken prednisolone or any other steroid, so I can't offer any advice there.

Clare - Sorry about the morning sickness. Hope it starts to ease off soon. At least you know you're producing all the right hormones. 

Buffy - Glad you didn't get any pre menstrual pain, that's great. I hope you are still feeling well in yourself and you can go forward with the next cycle of treatment soon.

Sue - I heard Prof Campbell talking on Radio 4 one time in the car when we were driving back from seeing him. It was very strange. I hope work has been ok this week. 

I had another appointment at the blood pressure clinic today and it had gone up (as inevitably it will as I get bigger) so I'm on double the dose of the beta blockers now - 200mg three times a day. It is still a relatively low dose as you can take as much as 800mg three times a day. 

Lots of love to all,
N x


----------



## suesunday

Annabell - I can see why that's massively frustrating, especially because you wanted to do this to get plenty of embies.  But two embies is still two embies - but I guess it's about your expectations after that bumper egg harvest. Hope you feel better once you have those two lovely embies on board. 

Natasha - you are sounding extremely sensible and not at all like a mad internet reading woman about the blood pressure - so well done you. It's no easy job keeping a level head - so respect!  

Welcome Ambition! I think Susie had success combining immune stuff (which I know absolutely nothing about) with a cycle at Create - but you've probably seen that on the thread already. 

Buffy - what makes AF pain go away? What's your diet changes? very intriguing! 

Clare - lovely to hear from you, even if that includes tales of vomit! 

Poo and bum. I have started bleeding. OTD is Friday. Not much bleeding so far, but I have only just started, so presumably it will pick up. Spoke to clinic who said to continue with the cyclogest until AF starts big and proper. Interestingly, I usually get loads of, er, here comes TMI, notice of a period - spotting for somewhere between 9 and 4 days ahead. I guess the progesterone put a halt to it. I wonder if I need it for my ordinary cycles? 

Bit sad though, but it is not the worst thing in the world. I can have lovely double espresso coffee and carry big shopping bags home until my arms fall off. When can do another cycle ladies? I'm mad keen to put myself through it again now that I know I can do it!


----------



## ClareTG

Ah Sue that's gutting - spotting has been the bane of my life the past few years so know you must be annoyed by it's presence. If Create have said continue with the Cyclogest until AF, are they not ruling the possibility of a BFP? You sound very measured i must say even though you're understandably sad. I was the same as you after the 1st attempt failed - wanted to do it again immediately!  I think it's recommended that you have a break of 1 or 2 normal cycles before trying again.  Like you say, you know you can do it now.

Annabell  - well done on getting your 2 embies, even if it's lower than the egg collection had given you hope for. Don't worry about the embies' quality - i remember reading a lot of literature that said ANY quality of embie has the chance to embed. Plus i asked Geeta about the varying times of waiting between EC & ET re: embryo maturation, & her answer made perfect sense - that the best place for an embie is it's natural home - the womb. Good luck tomorrow - remember to lie about for half an hour immediately afterwards!

Natasha - glad the BP is still under control with your low dose of beta blockers & you're staying calm.

Ambition - hello. Yes Susie is the woman for your immune advise. I had an alternative approach using chinese medicine a couple of years ago - no idea if it has positively affected things or not.

Love to all

xx


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## annabell99

Thanks Natasha, Sue and Clare for your calming comments! I know we're really lucky to have two embies and I will focus on that   I am not really so much upset about the low number of embryos (although it's obviously a disappointment) as worried about the high number of failures and what if anything that signifies about the ongoing viablility of the two that worked. We are hopefully going to talk more to the doc tomorrow about the low fertilisation, because from my internet research (yes I know it never helps!  ) that low a level is pretty much unheard of with ICSI.

I checked with the clinic and day 2 transfer is now their "normal" approach when there isn't a choice of embryos, it must have changed since we last had ET. Thanks for confirming that Clare! I thought they had put me on "special" ET for hopeless people (paranoid or what  )

Natasha- well done on staying calm about the blood pressure. It sounds like there is plenty of scope to manage it given your current dose vs the maximum.   

Sue-   Bleeding isn't always the end.  I know sometimes it doesn't help to think that because it prolongs the pain but really don't give up yet. I always get spotting before AF too (as do a couple of the other girls on here) and Cyclogest didn't stop the usual patttern of spotting for me, so maybe the fact that this isn't your "usual" spotting is a good sign? I hope it stops.    I think you have to wait at least a clear month before another cycle (?not sure about this though).

Ambition- Welcome to the board, sorry I didn't say hello in my earlier post. I agree that Susie knows most about immune issues! Who would prescribe the prednisolone to you? Do you know you have immune issues or do you just want to cover every eventuality? 


Clare- Good to hear from you, sorry you are feeling pukey though! I have heard Sprite is really good for morning sickness...don't know if this is true  but maybe worth a try? I hope it recedes soon! 

Buffy - Good that your AF arrived and   you will be able to go ahead next cycle! I only once had the very sensitive smell issue the day before AF, it was a late and very heavy AF. Maybe there are some circumstances where smell is magnified before AF due to the hormone changes?

Lots of love to everybody

xxx


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## Buffy68

Hello everyone

Re my diet - I have basically entirely stopped drinking alcohol and coffee and severely limited all dairy produce (except natural organic yogurt), spicy foods, refined carbohydrates and sugary products (excepting honey and fruit).  I am also eating very little "raw" food e.g. salads and am trying to limit yeasty products (bye bye Marmite).  It's impossible to do this diet religiously unless you never eat out or go round a friend's for a meal, but I reckon if I do it 90% of the time it will make a big difference.  Anyway, I feel a lot better for it and think there is a good chance my pain-free AF is a happy by-product.

Annabell - sorry to hear you feel a bit concerned about general embryo quality.  However from what I have read from others the percentage of good/fertilized eggs varies a lot from one stimulated cycle to another, maybe depending on how good the choice of drugs was for you (bearing in mind this was your first time).  I have heard of couples who had more than 8 eggs and none of them fertilized, how gutting must that be?  The important thing is you got 2 embryos which is twice what you've had before.  I think the best attitude is to see this cycle as an experiment in how your body responds to the drugs and you can then build on that...if it works first go then that's a wonderful bonus.  

Sue - are you sure it isn't implantation bleeding?  I don't think you can entirely write this cycle off until your AF starts properly.  Anyway, you have a good attitude and at least you know you've done it all once and survived, and you'll know more about what to expect next time!!

Natasha - glad to hear your dosage of beta blockers is still relatively low and that you're able to stay positive.  Hope you are getting plenty of rest and being looked after.

Ambition - wishing you well for your cycles with Create   I am sorry to hear you lost a tube, that must have been a bit traumatic.  I admire your perseverance.

Clare - I think you're fully entitled to whinge about throwing up every day!!  If it gets a lot worse in the evenings you are probably overdoing it.  Is there any chance you could work shorter hours at work?


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## suesunday

Just a quick one to say thanks guys for all the sympathetic comments straight away. Is so great to be able to tell people who understand. Thanks so much.


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## annabell99

Sue -  Just a quick note because I forgot to say earlier- I (and I think a few others) have asked Geeta about pre-AF spotting on an "ordinary" cycle and she doesn't seem to think it is an issue.

I have everything crossed for you that the bleeding stops   

xx


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## annabell99

Hi all!

Sue- I have my fingers crossed for you.    I hope you are ok.

ET went well yesterday - very quick and painless and the guys at the clinic were lovely. 

Not so good news about the embies though. Of the 7 eggs, 2 didn't fertilise at all and 3 fertilised abnormally (wrong number of nucleii). Of the 2 which did fertilise properly, 1 became a grade 4 embie  (wrong number of nucleii) and 1 became a grade 1 embie. We put them both back although the grade 4 one doesn't stand much of a chance. As far as I can work out, the grade 1 one doesn't really stand much of a chance either given that it appears that there was something wrong with the chromosomes in all the others (this causes wrong number of nucleii) and seems more likely to me that the whole batch would have the same problem. 

BUT we can still hope   

Dunno what can be done if it doesn't work this time though. The clinic have only just started counting the nucleii in fertilised embies so we don't know if our previous 2 from earlier cycles had the same issue, or whehter this is something to do with overresponse to the stimms. I took what Geeta said was the lowest possible dose though (112.5 iu) so I don't know if there are any other options.

Well sorry to moan but it's a bit of a blow. 

I hope everyone else is ok, lots of love to all
xxx


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## Buffy68

Hi Annabell -    I can understand why you might feel a bit disappointed after everything you put your body (and purse!) through to have a mild cycle to end up with what seems like only 1 good embie which you could have had from natural anyway.  Still, on the positive side you are still in with a chance of getting pregnant which is the main thing.  Re the nucleii thing, I am a bit confused why you think the best embie has a nucleii/chromosone problem when they checked it and it was OK.  Perhaps I have misunderstood??  If this cycle doesn't come off (and hopefully it will  ) maybe you could do a natural cycle and to have the nucleii checked for comparison, to see whether it was the drugs or if there is some underlying problem.

Sue - I am hoping your AF hasn't commenced.  

BTW - for those of you who spot a few days before your AF - according to TCM this is a sign of Spleen Deficiency.  I know this because I have been studying "The Infertility Cure" for all my symptoms!!!!!  If you want me to list the things you are supposed to do to improve this let me know (although, Annabell, I think you may have mentioned you have this book yourself??).


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## annabell99

Thanks for the hugs Buffy!  

Sorry I wasn't very clear, it all seems so clear in my head because it has been going round and round but probably seems totally illogical from the outside! Having done (once again!) extensive Googling, the double/mullti nucleus thing indicating chromosome problems can turn up at any point day 1-5. So just because the good embie was all ok on day 2 doesn't mean that it will continue to be so. I know it's overly pessimistic of me but since 6 out of 7 had an issue I can't help thinking the odds are high that the 7th has the same issue. But of course there is still a chance that it doesn't   

xx


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## NatashaM

Annabell - That is a blow, I'm so so sorry. I wouldn't be able to stop thinking the same thing either but as an outsider with perhaps a little more perspective I don't see any reason why the grade 1 embryo would also have that problem. It sounds like it is *so* much stronger than the others, I think it could well be fine. Maybe it was the one that was going to 'pop' this month anyway and because of that it is of a higher quality?

Suesunday - I hope that the spotting has stopped and that it was an implantation bleed. Fingers crossed for you. You're so sweet and cheerful all the time, I am really impressed with your outlook. I think it will serve you well whether this is your time or if you have to wait a little while. 

Buffy - Hope everything is good with you and you're still feeling super-healthy.

I had another appointment at King's (feels like my second home) and the BP was a bit higher (this is normal - it is going to keep going up as I get bigger) so I'm on an increased dose and I go back next Wednesday for another check and another growth scan. We had a hypnobirthing session with the hypnotherapist that I saw a few months ago about my constant worrying. It was really good - and whether I have a natural birth or not I'm sure it will help. Had reflexology today as well so I am doing everything I can to stay as chilled as possible.

cwsg - only a few days until your due date! Lots of love and luck for an easy-as-possible time.

Lots of love to everyone else too.
N x


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## suesunday

Yo ladies.

Buffy, mate, life without spicy foods and salad? Nah. Don't think I can! Fair bloody play to you though for sticking it. So, go on, what's the spleen thing? What in theory do I need to do? (I've just realised I'm actually pulling a slightly horrified face as I type this for fear of what you're going to say I have to give up!)

Annabell, stop plaguing yourself with things that might or might not be wrong!!  Come on, sweetie. A grade 1 embie sounds good to me. Alright, I know nothing about chromosomal problems except in relation to Downs, where my understanding is that the chromosomal problem in Downs occurs at the moment of fertilisation, ie it's event dependent. I have no idea how this relates to other chromosomal problems, but it suggests to me that at least some chromosomal issues are also event dependent. Which to me means that there's no reason to assume, given that all of your embryos are obviously fertilised independently, that your grade 1 has anything wrong with it. Grade 1 is so good - like Natasha says - it's hard to think it's not of a different quality altogether.  

Hypnobirthing? Blige. That sounds cool, Natasha. Good for you. I absolutely loved my couple of sessions of hypnotherapy - so amazingly relaxing. Have you tried a facial? I had one which was one of the most relaxing things that's ever happened to me (although that was just one out of three facials, so not a great hit rate so far).

cswg - what else have you knitted? My mum, who is v superstitious, says knitting doesn't count. Ie she didn't buy anything for me prior to the birth - she gave dad a list instead to get once I'd arrived (ha ha, an excellent way to hit his wallet, she's no fool) - but she did knit me stuff. Probably in scaffy acrylic fibres, given it was the 70s.

Create just rang me to see whether it worked. Quite sweet - they sounded more upset than me! Bless.

The back story to my relative calm is that my best friend died a month before I miscarried at the end of 2008. And finally at the end of last year, I got perspective from it - or rather from her. I've spent (and continue to spend!) so much of my life panicing about stupid things all the time, that I know how lucky I am to have got this out of what happened.

On this topic, did anyone see the programme about women who wanted a girl after a series of boys, on last week? Those women were really miserable even though they had a lovely clutch of lovely children. Just goes to show, you can always be miserable! As long as there's something you can't have - which will be always! FFS! 

I did bag myself the jeans I've been looking at since before Xmas. And, bargain fans, they were £70 down from £165!! Oh yes. And seeing as I've come over all philosophical this Sunday, I'll point out that sometimes the shopping gods are making you wait for a reason. Bit like babies probably.  

Back to moaning though for a minute. I am knackered, knackered, knackered to the point of feeling queasy. (And I had to go home after the jeans and _before the boots _ which were my next target - so this has real fashion costs, people.) Anyone else more tired during post IVF AF?

Thanks again for being so incredibly supportive. Am a bit lost without my old chum - so it's really lovely to have you guys. Natasha - you seriously made my day!

Laters


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## cwsg

well, my due date is today, and like i expected, no action as yet. i did have a curry though.

will keep you updated

cwsg

suesunday, i have also knitted another jumoer in dark colours and crocheted and little hat and mittens. The cardigan in the picture was the first one i've ever knitted. In the past i knitted a pair of socks for my partner, but they took 2 years! and then shrunk in the wash.

cwsg


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## lulumead

oh my CW...its too exciting...could be anytime now. How lovely.  Can't wait to hear your news on here. Hope it is as smooth and painless as possible  

Sue: big hugs, very sorry to hear about losing your best friend, must be very hard.    

Annabell: totally understand, I had 7 embies that all went to blast, had two put back and then they said that the others weren't good enough to freeze. I assumed that this might they were all rubbish but Geeta doesn't agree with this!! No indication of anything...so I really think the one you popped back was good, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered. But its so hard not to worry about everything during this process. Am crossing everything that this is the one that sticks and grows  

Natasha: hope you staying calm  

Hello buffy, clare, ambition, peppermint patty and sunshine....hope I didn't miss anyone    Hope you are all doing ok.

AFM (learnt new acronym, As For Me!)....have consultation on Friday with Geeta, been looking at sperm donors today...but lots to look at so will need to do more shortlisting tomorrow.  Tubes all good, my FSH/LH came back as 4.9 & 4.4, so that's all cool - just waiting on the others for lupus etc - hoping GP will call me tomorrow. So I think back to IUI for me, am playing the long game now, see if 6 goes at that works.  Also have a hysteroscopy appointment for March but think am going to go for it in Feb cycle then do that if doesn't work, then Mr New York is here, then do IUI again from April....wow...sounds like I have a plan!

Should we start a sweepstake on when we think baby CWSG will arrive?  

xx


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## Buffy68

Hello all

Spleen Qi deficiency is characterised by IBS type symptoms, bloating after eating, feeling sluggish, bruising easily, spotting before your period starts properly among other things.  It's worsened by eating raw foods such as salads and cold foods such as ice cream, excess dairy produce and eating too much artificial and refined foods.  It is also aggravated by worrying too much, and thinking too much which uses up a lot of energy.  In the book "The Infertility Cure" they recommend:

- consuming plenty of organic vegetables sauteed or lightly cooked, grains such as oats, Job's tears (croix) and sorghum, pumpkin and pumpkin seeds, organic beef, chicken, goose, ham, herring, rabbit, mackerel and sturgeon, cherries, coconut, dates, figs, grapes, molasses, potatoes and shii-take mushrooms
- not eating raw or cold foods or drinking drinks with ice in them or straight from the fridge
- avoiding mangoes, watermelon, pears and persimmons, cucumbers, lettuce, celery and spinach (if cooked maybe all right?), refined carbohydrates such as white bread and pasta, sugar and sugar substitutes, fruit juice, milk and milk products such as cheese
- getting adequate rest and sufficient exercise but not excercising excessively during menstruation
-performing meditative techniques to help relieve the mind of undue worry, using biofeedback exercises to help you moderate your stress levels


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## annabell99

Hi all!

Sue- I am so sorry it wasn't to be this month and I am very sorry also to hear about your friend   . You do have a wonderful attitude which I find so impressive. I had to laugh at your shopping antics- my first BFN led to a new handbag and my second led to new boots   . Last cycle when there was no egg I managed to restrict myself to a manicure...  BUT your jeans were a real bargain!!  What type are they?

I don't know about feeling knackered all the time after a negative cycle, I guess it is to be expected because your body has been through a lot? The thing I have noticed most each time after previous cycles is SPOTS - yuk- like being back at school. I think maybe something to do with the cyclogest . 

CWSG- SO EXCITING! Can't wait for the big news! I have started knitting also, inspired by your little photo - one of my neighbours is very kindly teaching me. I am knitting a baby blanket at the moment (my first piece) as she said this was a good starter pattern. It is very easy (all knit stitch) but it is already a bit of a funny shape   .

Natasha- good work on remaining calm about the blood pressure! Where is your hypnotherapist based? I think I might give that a try, it seems to have worked for you!

Lulu- It's great news that the bloods are coming back all OK! Hopefully the IUI will work for you and be much less invasive.    Fingers crossed that the Feb cycle works and then there will be no need to go for the hysteroscopy!

Buffy- thanks for the spleen info! That definitely seems to apply to me  (certainly worrying too much does!   ) I will try to follow the food advice although I don't think I can be as iron-willed as you about it. I am very impressed that you are sticking to that diet. 

Thanks all for your calming thoughts about my embie, it really does help to get a slightly more detatched perspective  - you are of course absolutely right!!   that it hangs on in there.

Lots of love to all

xxx


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## Sunshine42

Hello ladies,

I'm sorry to have been out of it for a bit but I have read all your posts.

Sue - so sorry this cycle didn't work for you   I know that when my cycle late last year resulted in no egg at egg collection I also felt extremely tired, i think we may underestimate what pressure the cycle puts us under. I love your attitude!  shopping works for me too...

Hey Buffy the new diet sounds great, it sounds similar to the one described in the book 'Inconceivable' it can only help and may just be the trigger you need. I wouldn't mind giving up the raw foods and cold foods in this crappy weather!

CWSG - my friend went a week over due before Xmas, so she went to a salsa dance class and hey presto baby came the next day!

Lulu - great blood results and yes sounds like you definely do have a plan...

Annabell - it ony takes one good egg, one good sperm and one good embie     fingers crossed my love.

Natasha - I like your hynotherapist idea, I'm trying to keep my worrying under control but its hard.

AFM - I had a scan last Wed with Prof Campbell, it was all good news, we got to see the baby's heartbeat as well. I was sooo nervous before hand, although DH wasn't in a great state either. Since then I have caught a respiratory virus, been in bed for 4 days, doc has signed me off work for a week from today. The morning sickness has also kicked in, although 'morning' is a joke, lasts from wake up to midday, then back again around 5/6pm and sometimes I wake at 2am feeling queasy. I'm not complaining ladies, just struggling to manage it, and when you add in the sneezing and coughing its not a pretty sight!!  And just now - the bloody cat just threwn up and pooed.... in the lounge!!!! trip to vet later today. DH going to have to come home and help. On the subject of DH he has been an angel looking after me as I am sure right now I am a complete pain in the bum...  sorry to moan.

Hello to anyone I have missed and welcome Ambition.

Sunshinexx


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## Ambition

HI Everyone

I'm bored at work despite my looming deadlines and thought what better than to catch up with the Create ladies?!

Sunshine - that's fantastic news about your scan! I know there are so many of us who know exactly what you go through before the scan picture becomes clear - i don't think the nerves are ever quite so bad are they?! sorry your morning sickness is a pain but enjoy!  

Anabelle - fingers crossed for the embie! I had hypnotherapy too - i can't tell you what a wreck I was with my third pregnancy -i really went psycho, so when it was sadly all over, i thought to myself, I'm not letting that happen again!   And got myself off to the hypno. It was the best thing I could have done I think. It helped me deal with the loss and made me stronger too. In fact going through my fourth unsuccessful pregnancy was tough but I am ok and getting stronger all the time   In fact, I've decided to give something back - you know, maybe help people going through the same thing in some way. I'm working on it... (when I'm bored at work!)

Buffy - OMG that spleen Qi sounds exactly like what i get! I've been to see a naturopath but at one point she recommended I only eat raw food... (which I never managed!) but maybe that wasn't the way to go anyway! oooh I love to find out new things that can help!  

Lul- hi it sounds like you've got a busy couple of months coming up! Is Mr New York a potential donor by any chance? Or have I got completely the wrong end of the stick!

CSWG - any news yet? Well done - you must be so excited! 

Suesunday - wow it must have been hard to lose your friend and then miscarry as well   I hope you're doing ok. I agree with you though about how things like that really do give you a different perspective on things. my best mate lost her bro to cancer recently and that along with my losses just make me think - wow we really do only get one chance at this life and i know I really want a baby but i really want to make the most of my life too - for the sake of the people whose lives are cut short, as well as for my own sake! Sorry guys -bit too philisophical for this time of day and without alcohol too... ha ha AF is defo on her way! 

Natasha - hope the nerves are ok? I have reflexology too now - isn't it amazing?! I always fall asleep (the person I see comes to work so i even get to sleep at work as well as do very little of it - oh my, how lucky I am!))


ClareG - hi thanks for the advice on the immune thing. I'll have to scroll through and find Susie! ...but she's not on the preview screen so i'll have a hunt after I've posted this message. hope you're doing ok 

oh dear! meeting about to start behind me and they will all be able to see my screen! Must go but good luck to everyone and stay positive  

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Buffy68

Hello all

I've just returned from a reflexology session which was fab!  As you know I already have acupuncture but in my recent research I found that reflexology is recommended.  I think Zita West says something like have a treatment every 3 weeks leading up to IVF (but not whilst having IVF).  It was so relaxing and I think it will complement the other health changes I'm making.  It is also supposed to be detoxing.

Ambition - the hypnotherapy sounds good, I was thinking in investing in a CD.  I think having miscarriages can also be linked with Spleen Qi Deficiency.  I definitely don't think you should be eating raw food as it sounds more like your body needs nourishing with warm foods such as casseroles and stews.  Sad to say that miscarriage will probably have drained you further, but you're seeing an acupunturist, I believe, so hopefully they're helping building you up again before your next try.  

Sunshine - good to hear from you and so glad your scan went well and hopefully you can relax a bit more now.  I think Spleen Qi Defeciency is one of the problems with morning sickness as well (although the stomach and liver are also involved).  If you are getting a nasty virus as well it sounds like you need plenty of r&r so it's good your dh is looking after you.  Tell the cat to pull itself together.

Annabell - I agree with the others that the embryo has a good chance of making the grade.  As for sticking to the diet - I got fed up with feeling ill and also so many cancelled cycles.  I wasn't ready to change my diet until a few weeks ago.  I need to get on top of my "over working mind" too so hope to start on some relaxation and visualisation exercises soon.

Lulu - that's great news about your blood results and hope the rest are AOK.  Do you know when your next cycle starts? 

cwsg - any action yet?  How long do they let you go these days before inducing?  I was over 3 weeks late!  My mother was taking caster oil to get me out.

Sue - sorry to say that your salads are probably not doing you any good   but at least there was nothing about spicy food with the Spleen Qi Deficiency.  BTW - fatigue and nausea are also associated with SQD (it seems to be mainly to do with digestion and energy).  I am sorry to hear about your friend, I suppose this might make you feel a bit lonely sometimes but you are amongst friends here who understand what you are going through.  I am glad that such a terrible event left you with something positive in that your perspective is more positive.    

Natasha - keep tranquil!  When is you due date?

love to all
Buffy
xx


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## SusieB20

Hi all

Sorry I've dropped off the thread for quite a while, I have been keeping up to date with everything though

Sunshine - huge congratulations on the pregnancy and glad to hear all is progressing well - hope you're over your illness soon

Sue - sorry it didn't work out for you this month, best of luck for the next cycle

CW - think we're all waiting with baited breath for any news on how you're doing, hope you're well

Ambition - I've just finished weaning off prednisolone (am now just over 13 weeks) - I did tell Create that I would be taking it but didn't make a huge deal about it (just mentioned it at the induction). I started taking it two days before ET so my consultant's view was that it wasn't really interfering with the stimming stage. Let me know if you have any queries about it though

Annabell - hope that embie hangs on in there   

As for me, I've had a couple of rough weeks - I reached the magic 12 week mark, came off my injections and had a wonderful nuchal scan showing two perfectly healthy babies and then 3 days later started bleeding heavily so off to A&E. The scan showed everything was fine with the babies and they couldn't see the source of the bleed so was advised to rest. Everything started to get much better but then I started bleeding again on Saturday night so we went off to the hospital again. It seems that it's quite common but extremely scary at the time. So I'm taking it easy again this week and hoping this will be the last of it. Will be seeing my obstetrician at the weekend to see if he can shed any light on it.

Hope all is well with everyone else

xxxx


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## lulumead

Hi all,

Susie: glad the bubbas are ok still, although I can imagine its very scary.

Buffy: my cycle should start on Tuesday next week, so should have some of the little fellas popped up at the end of Feb/beg March.     Will find out for sure when I go to Create on Friday.

Hope everyone else is having good week.s  

xx


----------



## annabell99

Hi all!

Susie- Sorry you have had such a stressful time recently! I hope the bleeding doesn't come back     Try to stay calm and flat as much as possible (that is what DH has been telling me to do during the 2ww!   )

Lulu - Good luck for the appointment on Friday, it's great that you will be starting again so soon! 

Buffy- What is reflexology? Is it like a massage? (sorry, total ignorance I know!) 

Ambition- I hope everything is going well with you! Thanks for the advice about the hypno, I think I will try it. I'm sorry you have had so many stressful experiences though. What are you thinking of doing to give something back? I was wondering about doing something too. One of the things I have realised throughout this process is that no matter how much external people (family, friends) care about you and what you are going through, there is no way they can understand in the same way as other people who have experienced the same thing. That is one of the reasons this board is so wonderful. 

Sunshine- SO glad that you have seen the heartbeat! I hope you recover from your flu soon .. and I hope the cat does too! My cat throws up (furballs) at least once a week, we have to try to anticipate it and move him off the pale carpets in time before he starts! (He is lovely though)


CWSG- Hope it's going well! Looking forward to hearing the news!

Natasha - hope you are still staying calm and the blood pressure is ok  

Sue- I hope you are ok  . Have you found out how long till the next cycle? Is it necessary to have a review meeting with Geeta in between mild cycles?  ALSO - did you manage to get the boots??

AFM (good acronym , Lulu  ) I am going totally mad in the second week of the 2ww. Time is going so slowly now! Absolutely no symptoms whatsoever, although I know it is early days yet (8 dpo today)  Natasha, Clare, Susie, Sunshine- did any of you have any symptoms?? 

Lots of love to all, sorry to anybody I have missed
xxxxxxxxx


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## Sunshine42

Annabell - I did have some slight symptoms, firstly I did have implantation bleed 5 days before AF due, also as AF due date got closer my boobs hurt and I was more and more tired. DH says I go a bit loony with preg hormones and once we did the test he said - 'that explains your weird behaviour'. Hang in there Annabell... I do understand the time going slowly 'thing' when I had a MC, the hospital said although not discovered until 10 weeks it actually happened at 7 weeks, which is where I am at now, I have another scan due week tomorrow and this week is just dragging...

Hi Susie - don't think we've said hello before, congrats on the two babies - how wonderful!! I have heard that bleeding during pregnancy is very common, but I know that it would absolutely freak me out so fully understand your concern. Hopefully you can get some answers.  
Can I ask - did you get nausea / morning sickness at all? I keep being told / or read that it goes by 12 weeks, just wondering if this is true? I currently have no idea how I will go back to work next week with the amount of sickness that I feel.

The cat by the way is fine.. I think she was faking... or just throwing up in sympathy with me. The little madam.......

It is currently sunny where I am today so I am happy to sign off as Sunshine xxx


----------



## Ambition

Hi Everyone

I can't believe it's so sunny in London (are you here too Sunshine?!) - just had picture message from DH and it's snowing in colchester. It's nice but just as long as there isn't toomuch of it  

Sunshine - one more sleep until the scan then! urrgh the wait is so awful isn't it? Glad the cat is ok- mine has been a hero for me over the past nightmare years - I think he's slightly peeved now though because when i was pregnant last time, we said if it didn't work out, we'd get a puppy (BTW fantastic for taking your mind off fertility issues!) and so now puppy has taken over the downstairs and cat rules the upstairs (I have to commute for ages but it's worth it for some stairs!).   mind you the puppy ate something disgusting about two weeks afer we got him and ended up being ill all day and night - yup, like I say, great for taking your mind off everything else!

Susie, I'm so glad you're on here because it sounds like i'm going to be doing the same thing as you (so good to relate!) and I've got immune issues but I'm so sorry you're going through a nightmare. So you've come off the injections and is that when the problems began? Do they put you back on the injections? Also, will they get you to continue prednisolone? I know my Dr was talking about taking it up to week 15 with me if/when we manage to get pregnant again. It just sounds a bit coincidental that you come off those things and then things start to get worrying. I hope you're doing ok and find a way to be calm - if it's an immune thing then trying to be calm really will help as it reduces those NK cells - i am sure you know that already though!  

Buffy i've just had reflexology again today (anabell it's a foot massage basically but it links up to your whole system a bit like acupuncture does) Funny how my most painful parts relate to my womb - must be something in it! I really feel amazing afterwards and it's so nice to have a bit of a sleep in the middle of the day too!

Annabell - oh good glad you're doing the hypno thing. I can't recommend it enough - actually I think all holistic stuff is amazing for you and I think it should be compulsory   Oh yes what to do about giving back - well it wavers for me between how well I'm doing on a certain day. Yesterday I didn't think about it at all but you've got me thinking again. I was thinking about having a coffee morning for people who have gone through miscarriages so I thought maybe I might start there and see how i get on. So many people who miscarry have so many questions and the docs only have so many answers (and only so much time). Then there are boards like this which are amazing but at the same time you can't beat face to face contact sometimes -  organising a cuppa felt like something not too intrusive to me and not too intense. 

SueSunday  - how are you doing?Are you feeling a bit less knackered now?

Hi to everyone else. Post soon - I love reading them  

Good luck to everyone


----------



## Buffy68

Hello everyone

Ambition - yes I think reflexology is very helpful - my most tender areas were my shoulders, digestive system and lymphatic system which makes sense.  Did she do you pituitary gland on your big toes?  

Sunshine -   for a good scan tomorrow - I'm sure you'll feel better when you get past the 7 week milestone and it's good that they're checking you regularly.  Is the scan with Create?

Annabell - how is the resting and keeping a tranquil mind going?  I'm sure it is still too early for any big symptoms.  As Ambition said, reflexology is a massage of your feet which is supposed to also benefit organs of your body which correspond with certain areas of your feet.  Whether or not this bit is true, it is certainly one of the most relaxing treatments I have had.

Lulu - be sure to get lots of rest during your AF to get yourself off to a good start.

Susie - it's good to read your update as I was wondering how you were doing.  I'm sorry to hear about the bleeding although I have heard this happens quite often in the early months.  Maybe you need to spend some time with you feet up and getting some extra rest?  Aren't months 2 and 3 supposed to be the hardest times in pregnancy?


----------



## suesunday

Hallo lovely ladies! 

Annabell - thinking of you and wishing you lots of stickiness and good wishes!    And on the funny shaped baby blanket - I don't know anyone whose first project wasn't wonky. The key to avoiding wonky when you're starting out is to keep counting stitches. Count and count and count! If you live in London, I recommend Stitch & ***** London (google them) - they have regular teach in meetings, but everyone is very helpful every week. I think I'm going to bring my tragic cardigan there and hope someone can offer a solution... 

Sunshine - what fantastic news! So so great! Of course your DH is being well behaved. He has, after all, got you in this state!   Crack the whip, girl. 

Susie - I can't believe you're past 12 weeks already! It's amazing and despite how utterly terrifying that sounds - it is still fab that you're here and your two little ones are fine. But am really hoping for you that the bleeding is over - just so you don't have to get that fright again. Although these boards do seem to have many people who bled throughout and were completely fine.    

CSWG! Woooo! I'm so excited! Hope you didn't watch One Every Minute or whatever it was called!  Me and DH were shouting at the screen telling the midwife to stop implying there was something going wrong with the 37 year old lady. 

Buffy - thanks for the info. I could probably tweak my diet a bit.  Just turned down a salad! I might also try to do something along the complementary lines next time. I read somewhere this week that acupuncture increases success rates by 10%. Does anyone use the one that is linked to Create? Ian? 

Lulu - I sort of love the idea of choosing sperm donors! Is that terrible? It's like the ultimate shopping, isn't it? What do you get to know about them? I'm picturing catalogue of buff men with academic qualifications and super impressive hobbies all noted down the side, with you flicking through at leisure. Sorry! I'm sure it's not quite as much fun. 

Ambition - so what's your timetable? When AF comes are you starting treatment or do you need to get immune stuff all in a row first? 

Natasha - hope it's all still going well. 

No boots yet. Work has terrible habit of getting in the way of shopping. How they expect an economic recovery to take root while I'm trapped in the office, I do not know. 

lots of love
Sue


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## NatashaM

Hi Everyone,

Really good to read everyone's updates - it's so nice we have a real little Create community here now.

Suesunday - I am so sorry about your friend. It is always important to honour the memory of those we've loved and lost. So many people (especially here in England) avoid talking about people who've died but it gives so much help to those who are bereaved to be able to chat and reminisce about their loved ones. So if you want to tell us anything else about her, I'd love to hear. Also glad you got to spoil yourself with a nice bit of retail therapy.

Lulu - Glad to hear that all tests thus far are looking good. I hope everything goes well with your next IUI and that you have a lot of fun with Mr New York.

Buffy - I do love the reflexology! Even if it is a load of balls it still relaxes me so much and leaves me feeling like I'm walking on little pillows so it's worth it to me. My due date is around the 18th March but it doesn't look as though I'm going to get that far...

Susie - I don't know if you remember but I had two big, scary bleeds at 10 and at 13 weeks and they found a subchorionic heamatoma. I'm guessing they looked for one with you as you said they couldn't find the source of the bleeding. Anyway, I hope you can rest up for a while and I do think you will be fine. You're past the scary stage and the little ones look healthy. I know how utterly horrible it is though, and how you panic every time you go to the loo etc. so you have all my sympathies.

Annabell - I had no symptoms AT ALL. None. Just the absence of the usual pre-period spotting.

The hypnotherapist we went to see is Christine Neillands, she lives near Peckham Rye - towards Honor Oak. http://www.advanced-hypnosis-works.co.uk/ is her website.

I've had quite a day of it today... Sorry, this is a bit of a long update but it helps to get it out...

We were at the hospital nearly all day today. I'm knackered.

Went to blood pressure clinic and had a scan - baby's growth is fine as is the level of amniotic fluid and the placenta but there is an issue with the blood flow - there is more being diverted to his brain than other parts of the body which suggests there's not enough nutrition going through to him.

I had to then go and have his heart monitored for an hour and they weren't happy with that (the rate was normal, mostly betweeen 140-155, but there weren't any accelerations which they would have expected) so they said to go away for an hour and drink something sweet and come back so we did (and when we went back to the car the pay and display ticket had slipped off the dashboard and we had a parking ticket. when we went to parking office in Brixton they said that was our fault and we'd have to pay the £60 anyway). Then I went back for my second trace and that wasn't much better than the first but they said I could go home and go back tomorrow for another one.

So I'm going back to the maternal assessment unit tomorrow and if the trace is ok I'll see the consultant again on Friday for another scan/doppler thingy to see how the blood flow is.

He was talking about delivering soon - like in the next few days.

I feel dazed and I have a headache.

Baby is still breech so it will be a caesarian.

I am not panicking. I just feel tired. We went to see my mum on the way home and I had a big cuddle with her - it felt so good to just hug my mum. I moan about her sometimes but I love her so much.

And I'm sure it is all because I wore my unlucky knickers with the hole in today by mistake.

Oh and hi to everyone I didn't mention by name and lots of love to all.

N x


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## suesunday

Natasha - well done! What a trooper you are. Very much admire you keeping your head while all this is going on - including stupid parking arsewipes.  

Probably wise cracks are inappropriate, but it's not possible that all the blood is going to his head because he's a mini boffin? 

What did they do before? Imagine all the babies (us included) that this and much worse looking things will have applied to, but they had no way of knowing. I'm totally sure this is fine - obviously they have been keeping a nice and close eye on you, and they're happy to have another look tomorrow. But even if they go belt and braces and deliver soonish, you get to meet your lovely baby (!! eek! eek!) and lots of people seem to slip them out this early (at my work place anyway!) and they and their babies are completely fine. And my mum has been saying since I hit puberty: "make them give you a caesarian. don't even discuss anything else as an option"! Ha ha. Thinking about pushing isn't even tolerated at Sunday Mansions. 

Seriously, Natasha - you're doing brilliantly. You deserve lots of hugs. You're a superstar. And the little 'un will be totally fine. You've got all bases covered.


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## Sunshine42

Hello ladies,

Not sure what I wrote in my last post but the scan is next Wed at Create and not today- should be 8 weeks by then.

Ambition - I think your idea of giving something back is amazing, and an opportunity for women to discuss how they feel about their mc can only be healing, I found that once everyone was informed of my mc no one then mentioned it again, it was almost like it didn't happen. I found out recently that my Dad said to my Mum that we should have tried again, they don't realise that we have been trying ever since the mc, it really upset me that he thought we had given up. Hopefully in a few weeks i will be able to give them the good news. I think that mc and fertility problems are such difficult subjects to talk about, for me even to my family - thank God for this thread!  

Sue - we did watch 'one born every minute' - OMG  I sat with my hands over my eyes and DH looked like he was in pain, those midwives are pretty bossy..... and that poor 18 year lad watching his Mum give birth, bless him, I'm sure he would have preferred to be at the pub!  I must of missed the bit about the 37 year old, I didn't hear any ages mentioned. I went to my Gp this monring to register the pregnancy and she said the hospital will want to see you more often due to your age - I suppose this is where it starts, I'm quite a 'womens lib' type girl so will have to make sure I keep my mouth shut!  Anyhow extra monitoring can't be scoffed at.

Hi Natasha - you really did have a stressful day, but it does sound like you are being given wonderful care and such attention, good luck with your appointments today and tomorrow. We are all thinking of you. 

Love to all. Sunshine xx


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## NatashaM

Thank you both very much. The heart trace was a lot better today - I think they had the sensor in the wrong place (too high up) yesterday and we kept losing contact. 

So I go back to see the consultant tomorrow for a repeat of the scan/doppler thing and I guess he'll give me a date for my caesarian some time next week. 

The midwife said I couldn't have him for a few days anyway because they'd just had four sets of twins and there were no cots to spare!


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## Buffy68

Natasha - sorry to hear about your "scare" caused by what sounds like inefficient scanning.  Sometimes I think it would be better if we didn't have so many tests during pregnancy as it seems every woman just ends up worrying about something that turns out to be inconseqential.  Well done for keeping calm throughout.

Hope everyone else is fine.  

love
Buffy


----------



## annabell99

Hi all!

Natasha- sorry to hear you have had such a stressful time!   I hope you are all ok now. It's very exciting that you are so near to meeting your little one! If you have the energy you could appeal the parking ticket - I have done this when my resident's permit fell off the windscreen in my car (classic car, much loved but full of condensation!) and the council let me off the fine on that occasion. You send a photo of the display ticket to prove you had it. On the other hand you could have more important things on your mind at the moment!   

Hope everybody else is well! I am 10 dpo tpday and still no symptoms at all other than the usual evil post-fertility-treatment SPOTS   

Lots of love to all

xxx


----------



## Ambition

Hi Everyone

Urgh last thing on a Friday but need to look busy before going home... 
Just a quickie but was so upset yesterday and am not even really sure why. I went for a check up appointment after my operation to remove the ectopic and the tube. It was supposed to be my opportunity to get the NHS consultant alone for 5 minutes. My GP said it would be anyway. Didn't even meet the consultant, met some woman who told me i was fine even though she didn't touch me, and didn't ask me if AF had come back yet or anything. She said I should conceive just fine now even though have only got one tube.

I asked her if she really thought so seeing as though I've had a few problems in that department - and she didn't know about the previous 3 miscarriages and the endo (even though they found some where the ectopic was). She told me to go back to my GP. I know I shouldn't moan but I was really upset that every time I see someone I have to explain and push and push to get anything done or even to see the right person.  

So this is why I'm going private for IVF but even then there's no one looking into my miscarriage problems and I am so FRUSTRATED!  Even my miscarriage doc seems only interested in getting his whopping £220 consultancy fee and hasn't been in touch since I had the salpingectomy (or however you spell it!).

Sorry sorry sorry I know this isn't a good pre-weekend post. It's just grrrrrrrrrrrrr. 

Tell me some of you have been frustrated like this? Is it only me? Am I being unreasonable? 

There is one silver lining I suppose - my new NHS doc is lovely and on my side. He said to go back to him if I can't get the consultant to listen to me. Trying to cling on to that... and fervently hoping IVF will at least help overcome some of the endo problems. 

Anyway i'd best go - am hoping my next post will be a cheery one!

I really hope you're all doing ok
x


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## suesunday

Ambition - hold on, are you not getting NHS specialist help for the 4 miscarriages? If so, that is insane. Everything I've been told byNHS people is that three miscarriages pushes you over the line for specialist help. If you lived in London, I think you would be referred to St Mary's where they have a repeated miscarriage specialism. (This is what they told me at my local well woman clinic anyway.) Is it possible for your lovely GP to do this maybe? I think they are v good at St Mary's. 

The whole thing sounds shocking - you're very within your rights to have a little grump here. 

Love the idea that they're holding the sensor in the wrong place! Oh god. Oh god. Glad it's not anything important or anything...

Sunshine - that was the 37 year old (I paid close attention at the beginning!)! What was her poor son doing there? And the awful bloody midwife. Not to mention the not great husband. I must say it was a fabulous follow up to a BFN - one begins to see that it's not all downside...    I know exactly what you mean about keeping your mouth shut. While I was pregnant the midwife made it very clear that I was now a baby receptacle and nothing else. Oooh. The rage.  

Annabell - can I ask? When do you test? (I know I should be able to work it out...)


----------



## ClareTG

Hi everyone

Annabell - hope the 2WW is nearing the end soon. I had absolutely no symptoms whatsoever - just no spotting before AF like i usually had. I was convinced i had PMT & would have a BFN & was in a very bad mood about it all before testing! Sending you lots of javascript:void(0);

Ambition - that is really shoddy treatment you've been getting & surely your pregnancy history should be a red flag in all your NHS dealings? How frustrating for you. In my experience with my GP ove rthe past few years, i've had to know more than him & insist on referrals etc to get anything from him. I was told when i went to ask about IVF after my op. for fibroids & endo, that i wouldn't be accepted onto the NHS list for IVF until the endo was 'under control' - i had to point out that the only treatment to keep it at bay was going on the pill which wasn't ideal when ttc - so clueless!!

Susie - Hope you're OK & not worrying too much (easier said than done). My sister had severe bleeding around the same time in her 3rd pregnancy & they never worked out why it was, but she had a healthy little boy. 

cwsg - has it happened? How exciting (you must be at the end of your tether if you're still waiting).

Natasha - i can't believe you're so close now! Hope you're staying calm - you seem to be even in the face of annoying parking hitlers. Did you have another scan today?

I was in Kings -your 2nd home - on weds having my 12 week scan. Spent about 4 hours there in all as the littlun was proving elusive (i also got told to go for a walk & try a hot sweet drink!). It was amazing to see though - at first it looked like a sea horse until i could see the limbs - i was laughing with relief. It all feels much more tangible now & like we've come a long way (so impressive to see the difference between this scan & the last when it was just a bunch of cells - that's a lot of work going on in a short space of time). Still a long way to go, though that really helped.

Sue & Sunshine - i don't know how you could watch that programme - very brave. I saw the trailer & all those women in pain & thought it's the last thing i needed to see - for at least another 7 months!
Sunshine - the 'morning' sickness is a joke isn't it? Somehow you manage to get through owrk - strictly a day at a time with some v rough patches. It's definitely starting to ease up now (I'm 13 weeks) - not completely gone but the waves of sickness & now mostly in the evenings for me & not every evening like it used to be - hopefully all gone soon!

Lulu - did you have your appointment today? How did it go?

Buffy - i've been craving lots of things your diet would frown on - mangoes, salads, melons to mention just the healthy ones!

Love to all
xxx


----------



## cwsg

nothing has happened yet, but i'm not at the end of my tether 

have 1 week till booked induction. Having two sweeps next week. 

cwsg


----------



## NatashaM

Hi All,

I'm having a caesarian tomorrow. I'll be exactly 35 weeks. My consultant decided it was for the best as my placenta is really struggling. The doppler PI through the cord is very high and the baby is diverting all the energy to his brain where it is most needed at the expense of other body parts.

I was admitted direct from Blood Pressure clinic yesterday and given my first steroid injection to mature baby's lungs. I'm having another one today and then probably being transferred out to a hospital in Kent (Ashford or Sidcup look likely) because there are no special care baby cots here at Kings.

Everyone's been saying that he probably won't need to stay in special care for very long. They estimate that he weighs 5lb 2oz which isn't teeny tiny is it?

I'm not as nervous as I thought I would be. Maybe because I'm just so tired. I didn't have a very good night's sleep. One girl in my room decided that it was ok to chat on her mobile until 1am and the other one already had her baby and didn't realise that when it cried you might want to check its nappy. Gotta love South London.


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## Buffy68

Natasha - all the best for your caesarian tomorrow.    Do they know why your placenta is struggling?  My cousin just had twins early by caesarian and she had to take steroids for their lungs and I think they were both about 4lb 8oz, which was taken to be a good enough weight, so I expect 5lb 2oz is OK.  Isn't it wonderful that as soon as you stay in hospital you get constant interruptions and crappy food so there's no chance of being relaxed or feeling healthy.  Have you got your laptop with you?

cwsg - hope your labour starts in the next week.  Time for those caster oil sandwiches and hot curries!!

Clare - it's good to hear your scan went well (once they found him or her) and that you're not actually growing marine life in there    I have read that the first few months are when the biggest growth spurts are, which is why you feel so crap most of the time!  I think you're allowed to eat what you're craving when you're pregnant!

Ambition -   I'm constantly disappointed about how no one in the medical profession seems to talk to one another, and this seems to apply both to private and nhs.  It's hard but you're the only one who knows everything about your body and you can't just rely on them to get it right.  Can't you talk to your GP about getting another referral to someone who gives a proverbial?  In the meantime what does your TCM person say?  Are you taking any herbs?

Annabell - I'm thinking about you and hoping something exciting is going on in your uterus!  

Best wishes to everyone else and have a lovely, relaxing weekend.


----------



## cwsg

natasha,

sorry to hear your having to go through all this. It is such a worry anyway, not knowing if the baby is ok. You are being very brave. I don't envy you having to stay in hospital, but at least you and your baby will be safe.
i know south london well, i used to live in east dulwich and then new cross before moving to Wales. Kings college is supposed to be one of the best for gynycology and ante natal care. But you have having to go to Kent!

all the best

cwsg


----------



## lulumead

hello all

natasha: 5lbs is not too titchy at all....I'm sure all be well and you will get to meet your lovely baby tomorrow.   
plus you will have a valentine baby and Chinese New year (year of the tiger) baby too, so thats a bit lovely.

CW: we await your news...Natasha's beaten you to it, unless you can give birth tomorrow too!

clare: good to hear scan was all ok.

annabell: when do you test?? sending you lots of    

buffy, sue, sunshine, ambition: hope you are all good....nice bunch of us on here now.

AFM! I'm going ahead with IUI, suggestion of double squirts of sperm, which is all fine but makes it so expensive....and I'm not convinced that the stats make much difference, but maybe for this 1st one we will do all guns blazing, so a bit of puregon, scans trigger and two squirts...and cross fingers that the 10 - 15% is in my favour!

xxx


----------



## SusieB20

Best of luck to Natasha for today - how exciting that a Create baby will be arriving today! I agree that 5lb 2 is not tiny at all - a friend of mine had a baby last year that was 5lb 3 and he was only in for a night or so. Sending you lots of   for your Valentines baby

Clare - so glad the scan went well, it's amazing to see the difference between that and the early scans and see the baby moving around, it's just magical

Ambition - it sounds as though you're getting really poor treatment and I hope your new NHS doc will help you get to the root of the miscarriages and get you the appropriate referrals. Is this why you'll be using steriods etc on your next treatment? Have you had all your immune tests done?

Lulu - that's great that you have a plan in place, when will your next cycle start?

I saw my immune guy yesterday and he's also an obstetrician which is handy since the hospital don't want to see me again until 21 weeks despite classing me as high risk. He thinks that the blood clot might have resulted from my raised NK cells even though I was on all the treatment (ie my body was still attempting to fight the pregnancy but hasn't succeeded so far) as quite a lot of women with raised cells also have bleeding. I've had to stay off the aspirin and blood thinning injections as they can make the bleeding worse and I'm also off the steroids now as he thinks they have done their job (hope so!). I had another scan and he's happy with their growth & heart rate so I see him again in two weeks and am signed off work in the meantime.

Hope all is well with everyone else, enjoy the rest of the weekend xxx


----------



## ClareTG

Just a quick one

GOOD LUCK TODAY NATASHA! Hoe all goes smoothly & you get to see your little one soon -how exciting! My gorgeous little neice was born at about that weight by early caesarian & was v healthy (touch of jaundice for the 1st couple of days but that's perfectly normal). can't wait to hear the news. Hope you can rest in between being shipped about!

CW - hope you're not far behind

Susie - hope your immune guy has reassured you (interesting that Create don't entertain the immune issue, but he's an obstetrician!)  Hope you're over the worst of it now.

Lulu - great news on your decision - fingers crossed you'll be in that 10 - 15%. When do you start?

Buffy - i've just treated myself to some croissants for breakfast blatantly using my 'condition' as a guilt-free excuse!

Love to all
xxx


----------



## annabell99

Hi all! 

Natasha- I have been   for you all weekend, I hope it has gone well! Can't wait to hear your news! 

CWSG - hope you are getting there too!  

Ambition - I can't believe you are not being given more support and help around the miscarriages! I don't think you're being unreasonable at all, it's shocking that the nurse told you "you should be able to conceive fine" without knowing your history. I hope your nice NHS doc can help more  

Sue- thanks for the knitting info and referral! I have done one out of the three strips for my blanket now and am feeling quite pleased with myself, even though it is clearly still going to be an odd shape. Unfortunately I have totally forgotten how to cast on for the next strip. There was a good demonstration on Youtube which helped last time so I think I will be watching that several times again! Is the cardigan you are knitting for you?

Clare- So lovely that you could see the little one on your scan! I'm intruigued by the "elusive" nature- where was it hiding? (I can't help thinking of the tampax advice they give you when you are a teenager when they say "it can't get lost in there"   )

Sunshine- good luck for the scan on Weds   

Lulu- sounds like a good decision, I have everything crossed for you   

Buffy- I hope you are still feeling good with the diet! When is your next cycle likely to start?

Susie- I hope the immune guy was reassuring. Hopefully there will be no more problems  

AFM, OTD is tomorrow but I have been naughtly and tested early and it was POSITIVE.  SO I have booked a blood test at Create tomorrow morning. DH and I are in shock, we don't really dare to celebrate in case it doesn't last.

Lots of love to all

xxx


----------



## lulumead

yippeeeeeeee Annabell....can understand you being cautious but am crossing everything that its all good        

I'm trying to choose sperm donor as I need to order it today so I can get going this month. Not as much fun as you'd think, and am getting quite stressed as the sperm bank aren't responding to my emails....eek....in theory I can't start unless sperm is in the country but I'm going to take the risk and go for it as it only takes 3 days to get here....cycle starts properly tomorrow....so I've got a few days before its needed!

xx


----------



## Buffy68

That's really good news, Annabell - isn't this the first time you've got a positive?  What does it feel like?  Seriously though, you're making real progress and hopefully   this is the one!!!  Try to keep calm for the blood test tomorrow (as if!).   

Lulu - try not to stress about the sperm, it's not good for your cycle (really it's amazing how any of us get pregnant under this sort of pressure).  Have a lovely rest with your AF and good luck for the IUI!

Clare - I broke my diet for Valentine's day as we went out to dinner.  Naughty!

Susie - great news about the scan and that you can now come off steroids.  Take it easy.

Natasha - can't wait to read your update  

AFM although the health problems that plagued me for the last three months of 2009 have cleared up I'm still not sure whether to do the next cycle or wait another one.  My main issue at the moment is feeling tired because of not sleeping well and I really need to work on being more relaxed.  If I had a button to turn my brain off it would be ideal!!!!  I got a bit upset at the weekend because my mother asked if I was on HRT yet (we haven't told her about the IVF because she doesn't approve of it).  I said "I'm only 41, Mum!" to which she informed me that she started early menopause symptoms in her early 40s.  I am getting fed up of countering the constant negative comments about fertility and women over 40.


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## annabell99

Thanks Lulu and Buffy!

Lulu- I hope you're managing to get through to the sperm bank! 

Buffy- Yes it's the first positive. It feels very very strange! I still feel quite normal and in fact have AF-type pains but it seems quite a lot of people get those so it's not necessarily a bad sign. The only thing which made me think that maybe something was different were nosebleeds over the weekend - I have never had them before (except while ski-ing, when it's due to the altitude). Of course I thought the daily aspirin which the clinic recommend post-ET could also cause nosebleeds (thinning blood) and maybe it was in fact due to the aspirin but if so it didn't happen during our other cycles. 

I'm sorry to hear you're still feeling under the weather. I know exactly how it feels to wish you could turn your brain off! The things I have found which help me are good books (has to be the right level of book so it is not too challenging but holds your attention) and knitting while watching TV ...this seems to use up most of my brain   !  Re sleeping, we have been using "Rescue Remedy Night" for the last couple of weeks. I think it's safe (homeopathic?   ) and it does seem to work. You can get it from Boots. Pay no attention to your mother  . It must be hard that she doesn't approve of IVF. My parents are Catholic and I was worried what their attitude would be but I am very lucky that they have been great. My mum had my youngest sister and brother when she was over 40 so really you shouldn't worry, your time will come   

Lots of love to all

xxx


----------



## Sunshine42

Annabell -  FANTASTIC RESULT!!!!    I know how you feel I was in shock too when we received a positive. And time slows down......  I am still anxious 4 weeks on so hang in there you will get the blood test result tomorrow afternoon and all will be well.  So very pleased for you.  

Natasha - hope all went well yesterday and you are now enjoying your little bundle of joy! can't wait for your update.

Ambition - a friends sister has had 6 miscarriages she has been referred to Dr Raj Rai at St Mary's 0207 886 1050, they have found something wrong and she is having treatment to 'fix' then she can try again. Sounds like you are not being treated fairly under NHS, try ringing St Mary's direct and founding out if you need a referreal to see Dr Rai. It could be that you infact do not need IVF, but the miscarriage issue resolved instead. Good luck my love.

Buffy - I'm with you on the fertility issue for the over 40's, all we hear is doom and gloom, makes me sooo angry. I too find it hard to talk to my Mum about the fertility issues and IVF, I have no idea if she approves or not, maybe not as strict catholic, but she gave birth to my brother when she was 43 and before that she had 5 other children, pregnancy and childbirth were all in a days work for her.. she can't understand all the fuss..  its horrible not being able to confide in your Mum, I feel for you.  You are preparing yourself well what with the 'new' diet and making sure you are well before the next cycle, 2010 will be your year  

Love to all, I'm still coughing etc etc so working from home.

Sunshine xxx


----------



## cwsg

Hi

i'm not getting anywhere, baby not at all ready. It shouldn't really be a problem as i feel well and feel lots of movements, but the health system has booked me in for an induction on Friday. i can refuse but they warn you off problems.

Having accupuncture tomorrow and homeopathy, so fingers crossed i wont have to be induced.

cwsg


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## SusieB20

Annabell - such fabulous news and I'm sure the blood test tomorrow will back up the result!!

Lulu - hope you get everything sorted with the sperm bank - really really hope that this cycle is successful, good idea to throw everything at it.

Sunshine -  I can totally understand the whole 'time slowing down' thing - the first 12 weeks are the longest. We've only just told family and friends now, feels like such a big step to take

CW - I guess you have to go with what the hospital advises but fingers crossed the acupuncture will help and bubs decides to make an appearance before Friday. Who do you see locally? I'm trying to find somone close by as it feels like too long a trek to get to Zita West at the moment (am terrified of starting bleeding again when I'm on the tube) - I think you mentioned Julia Davis before, would you recomend her?


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## cwsg

susie -  I was recommended Julia Davis by my accupuncturist here in Wales as someone to see through my IVF, as she is in Tooting. Well, all I can say is, it worked and i got pregnant. She is very proffesional. Se also treated my partner.

cwsg


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## annabell99

Sunshine- My mum gave birth to my littlest brother when she was 43 and had 5 children before that as well! Spooky... 


xxxx


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## Sunshine42

Oh my - that is spooky!  If you tell me you are the youngest of three girls with 3 younger brothers then I will be completely freaked out!


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## suesunday

Annabell!!! Annabell!! Oh. My. God! (Sorry, brief 13 year old regression again.) So brilliant! I'm so over the moon! I'm actually clapping at the laptop, which is helpful - as you can all hear that right? Ah! Bloody brilliant. You must be so pleased. Wow. So fantastic. (I'm still clapping.)

CSWG - have you tried sex, pineapple juice, papaya, and walking up hills? Preferably all together? That should nail it. 

Buffy - well done for getting the other half to take you for Valentine's meal, diet or not diet. (Yes, that hints at a whole heap of valentine pouting by me yesterday when I discovered that he had taken me at my word when I said I didn't need a present. Hallo?)

I must say, I would weap and scream at my mum if she anything like that to me. You poor thing. I do think certain bits of the media delight in wagging their collective fingers at older women and warning them that they've traded in their chance of children for their careers - there's something very misogynist and retrogressive about it. My parents also quite strict Catholics (how many Catholics are there in the UK? Are _all _ their kids on here? Are we all Irish and Polish?!). My dad walked out of the room yesterday when I was talking about it but I'm sure my dad is just a bit squeamish rather than anti.

Lulu - oooh. Two squirts of sperm, eh? That sounds so funny!   Hope it turns up!

Susie - that does sound good news. And I hope you can enjoy being off work and have a nice relax.

Natasha - thinking of you. In fact, raced to the laptop when I got in to see if there's any news. (I imagine the first thing one does after a caesarian is pull the old laptop out.) Wishing you well!

Sunshine - don't work too hard from home. Makes everyone else look bad!

Ambition - that's exactly who I meant in my less coherent advice than Sunshine's - Dr Raj Raj. Defs give that a go.

AFM (thanks Lulu!), went to see Nargund on Sat. She was all about how surprised she was that I didn't get pregnant. Which made me feel disappointed - much more so than I had been when I got the BFN. She said that I should give the progesterone a go in my natural cycles, as my usual spotting had stopped while taking the cyclogest this time. So, that's something potentially helpful coming up in my natural cycle. And she said I couldn't do ivf again for two whole 'natural' periods - ie not counting this one. Which I think means late March for me and my shortish cycles, but not absolutely sure (as that would only be one natural period really). Feel a bit dispirited. Thinking about checking out some other clinics, but love you lot, so don't want to go off here!


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## lulumead

Totally know what you mean Sue about the 'surprised your not pregnant' comments from Geeta - says it to me everytime!...on one hand with her experience it makes you feel like it will happen at some point but on the other hand you think, come on...there must be something you can do!!!!!!

Whilst it is great that she is such a pioneer of natural and mild ivf, it does mean she isn't that interested in hearing anything else!

xx


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## Ambition

Hi Guys

Thank you all so much for your empathy and your advice. I am feeling better now. I know I have to make the decisions about what we do in this and push for things to happen - sometimes i just want someone else to say 'this is what you need to do' and then i can blithely just ride it out. i have had investigations at St Marys (they said come back when you're pregnant and when I was, they wouldn't call me back) and i've had all the other tests I can think of too. So now it's the steroids and the aspirin/heparin and IVF. i guess that's a pretty good form of attack really, but I'm just not sure if something's being missed because of all the bitty bits of care - ie left hand doesn't know what right hand is doing and all that. so enough about me - blimey it's all happening on here isn't it?!

Natasha - when are you going to post and relieve us all of our misery?! I hope it all went well and you are now a very happy bunny  


Clare - hope everything is still ticking along nicely?!

Buffy - thank you for your advice. i am definitely getting hold of my doc and asking him to help get me another appointment at St Marys - it's so strange how they have ignored me for what must be at least a year (I had to get in touch to tell them I'd moved etc) - I've been pregnant and had a tube removed and they still won't get back in touch? It's a bit strange but I guess they're busy. I was taking some herbs from my naturopath but i feel ok now so haven't gone back on them. I have electro acupuncture at the moment - I'm not sure about it as not many people seem to do it but it seems to be ok and my cycles are near perfect now! So do you do acupuncture and reflexology as well? 

Sunshine and Buffy - I can't believe mums! They can be such a nightmare can't they? They mean well most of the time but they seem to have this inability to convey that in  way that comes across as caring - I know my mum says she's does/says what she does for my benefit but sometimes you really wish they wouldn't bother, hey?! 
Anyway don't listen! don't listen to anyone (apart from people like us who get it of course!)
! 

Annabell - how are you getting on? are your nerves holding up ok?! Congratulations!

Cwsg - how are you getting on?! Did you have acupuncture? Did you follow Suesunday's advice yet?!  


lulumead - have you chosen yet?! I hope you get some good uns!


Suesunday - OMG that's exactly what Geeta says to me too. And when I was pregnant she said, oh yes, I knew that would happen! ha ha!! So weirdly annoying  It's so hard trying to maintain confidence when you're not sure they 'get' you isn't it? 

oops better go - more training for me!

Sorry to anyone I missed and the brief messages!


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## annabell99

Hi all-

Just a quick message as DH is at home today and is using the computer (he's making a cup of tea now while I type quickly!)

Thank you so much for the messages yesterday, it's so lovely to be able to share the news! 

All good today on the blood test. The beta level 238 which Lakshmi says is "strong" - Susie, what was yours?? I'm beginning to wonder if there is more than one little bean in there...

Lots of love to all

xxxxx


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## SusieB20

Annabell - brilliant brilliant news - congratulations!!! I can't remember exactly what my hcg was but I'm pretty sure it was over 200 as well, so you never know!!

xxx


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## Ambition

hey Anabelle that's great! so how many days are you now then?


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## mangoeater

Hi Ladies,
Thanks for all your shock and support re the confusing price listings and policies. 

I did get a refund, but only after many many weeks- and it raised many more questions than it answered. Also, I noticed that Create did not refund the HFEA fee I paid, even tho it was never even considered a "cycle". I've been trying to reach someone else, but have not heard back in the last 3 weeks. 

This whole thing has really stressed me out. I know it shouldnt, and its not good for my body-- but its an unresolved situation -- and it could affect many more women than me. I've spoken to several other patients, and everyone is fearful that the stress will affect their bodies. 

But I'd really encourage you to ask qs in advance- especially poor responders. The more informed patients ask questions, the more likely they are to change or be clearer, or be more welcoming of patients who are confused. Qs to consider may be:
- Does your very first scan counts as part of the "cycle", and what exactly you will pay if they say "no cycle possible" after the first, or after the second scan. Will you be charged for an "abandoned cycle" if you have only one scan? What about 2?  Or will you be charged only for that scan?
- Exactly what is the difference between a "cancelled" and "abandoned" cycle.

Create is my last option. So sadly as stressed and upset as I am, I had planned to deal with them as long as I could. But its really upsetting to feel stress towards the clinic that is supposed to be helping you. And to not get answers.

I'd really like to help other women avoid this kind of experience. So do ask questions, and do check your bills carefully.

Right now, my AF has taken to skipping months. So I'm just trying to be healthy meanwhile...


----------



## Buffy68

Annabell - congratulations   you must be on seventh heaven now, and your dh too!  I knew you'd get the right roll of the die if you threw it enough times!  What's the next step, scan in a couple of weeks?  I told my dh and he was really pleased for you too!  I can't wait to hear more about your pregnancy.  BTW did you say earlier that your mother only had one ovary?

Mangoeater - thanks for letting us know the right questions to ask.  I have come to the conclusion that no one is going to make this easy for us in terms of stress.  It's ironic that you get this talk about staying relaxed and not letting yourself get stressed and then they do things to make you more stressed out!!  And from what I've read, Create are one of the better clinics.  I am sure you must be quite drained from your attempts and all the cumulative stress.  I felt a bit like that after several months of failed natural cycles when my own cycle went whacko and I came to the conclusion I needed a rest for a few months whilst I built my body up.  I'm a lot healthier now than I was before Christmas and I'm still working on it.  

Ambition - if your cycles are perfect now then the acupuncture, reflexology and herbs must have done their stuff and hopefully whatever was causing the miscarriages has been sorted as well?  I have had acupuncture for a while, but only just started on reflexology to relax myself.  It's my big problem, now I have overcome the health issues.

Sue - I did actually book the table at the restaurant myself!  However, I also got roses and some scent so I can't really grumble.  I didn't trade having a child for my career as I never had a career, just a job LOL.  I got married when I was 39 and started trying that year.  I think this idea about women putting off childbirth for their career is a myth.  

All - Thanks for the kind words re my mother's "helpful" advice on the menopause.  It really helps to have a little cheer group online, as I am sure you all know.  I am coming to realise that I have absorbed quite a lot of negativity from my mother about childbirth and older women.  She told me that she found being pregnant with me incredibly draining and hard work because of her age.  She was 32


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## lulumead

hi annabell

thought you might this link which has a lost of HCG levels for singles and twins 

http://www.advancedfertility.com/earlypre.htm

hello everyone else....    

xx


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## Ambition

Hi All

Well I'm glad you've got something back Mangoeater but such a shame it's taken so much from you as well. I know what you mean when things are unresolved -you feel like you've been cheated and it makes you angry but at the same time you need these people as well - it's such as two edged sword. Is there a way you can get an appointment and negotiate a way of moving forward? or maybe pop in for a quick chat? It might be unrealistic of me to suggest but I just thought that if you can do that, then you'd feel like you've done what you can and might get some closure on this. I'm sure they'd rather have a happy camper on their books than someone who is upset with them - it's bad for business and I am sure they don't feel great about it either. I do think that although Geeta and co are in this as a business, they do genuinely want to help people and pointing out that you understand that may even remind them of it!
And thanks from me too for the questions to ask. My induction is coming up and I'll be scribbling them all down before I go. I really appreciate it but I'm sorry you had to be the one to go through it.

Hi Buffy - negative mothers?! Oh yes I've got a prize there too. She's got a personality disorder which is getting worse as she gets older (don't they all?!) I'm working on separating the hurt she causes (and claims she can't remember doing any of it) and how i let it affect me - am doing Mind Body medicine as well - have you heard of it? is pretty good and am learning lots of stress relieving techniques. Also, have you tried hypnotherapy for stress? I've had it and it was amazing (think I may have mentioned it before! Sorry am a big fan!).

 to everyone
x


----------



## annabell99

Hi all!

Thank you for all the good wishes! I'm still in shock, I don't quite know when it is going to sink in, at the moment I still just don't believe it! I have booked an appointment with my GP for tomorrow morning (I assume you are meant to do this? ) and it will be very strange to tell somebody external! 

Thanks for the info Lulu! I'm a bit concerned about the HCG level  - ideally we would prefer that it wasn't twins because I am very small (5ft, less than 7 stone) so our concern is that there would be a high risk of very premature babies   (DH is also HUGE- 6ft 3- don't know if this has any impact on baby size??) . We didn't think at ET that the chance of twins was very high at all as one of the embies was only grade 4.  I don't mean to sound spoilt, I know that it is wonderful that I am pregnant, it's just something I am worried about   .

Natasha- I hope all is well! Looking forward to hearing from you!

CWSG- I the acupuncture worked and you are not having to wait for the induction!

Susie- I hope you are ok and managing to relax at home! Thank you for getting back to me so quickly on the HCG results! 

Sunshine- I'm the oldest of 6, two girls and 4 boys, so not exactly the same as you, but families of 6 are still pretty rare! Where did you live when you were growing up? I hope you are feeling a bit better now.

Sue- Irish Catholics in my family  ! I had the same talk from Geeta after my BFNs. I know it isn't what you want to hear- I wanted concrete answers- but in a way it is good news as if there is no reason it shouldn't have worked then it is just a matter hopefully of time until it does? If you look into viablilty rate of human embryos it is really low for any one embryo, which is why it can take several tries to get a sticky one. I think it would be more helpful if this was clearly explained by the clinics though. I'm really surprised that you have to wait two clear cycles to try again- I always thought it was just one  Which other clinics are you considering? We tried Chelsea and Westminster hospital and the Lister before coming to Create, although we have only had IVF treatment at Create.

Ambition - I am 15dpo today  . I think as Buffy says that if your cycles have become regular then hopefully your body is more healthy and able to support a baby than it was. I feel so angry on your behalf though about the treatment you have been getting. I don't know if this is of any use but I had a flyer through the door yesterday from Tommys (the baby charity) and they do a lot of work on recurrent miscarriage, I don't know if they could help you? I'm sorry to hear about your mother as well, that must be hard to deal with  

Mangoeater- I'm really pleased you got your refund but I'm sorry it has caused you stress and taken so long. I hope you can put it behind you and begin a better relationship with Create. From my limited experience of other clinics, they all have issues.  One of Create's big strengths is the "personal" feel of the attention you get, so it's a shame you've had a bad experience so far  

Buffy- My scan is on 3rd March- two weeks today! You're right my mum only has one ovary after a bad ectopic and still had children in her 40s so there is no reason you can't too! Please ignore your mother   I can't believe she says such things to you. Thank you to your DH for being pleased for us- that is so sweet! 

Lots of love to all!

xxxx


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## Ambition

Ah thanks Annabelle, I'll have a look at Tommys. I hadn't heard of them before and I feel i know all there is to know about recurrent miscarriage! Just goes to show that you never know everything!

So pleased about your levels and I really wouldn't worry about twins at this stage - HCG levels rarely reveal a lot at such an early stage and they can vary dramatically between women. Besides, the least worry; the better - seriously! you're right to get to the doc asap and get the process going. it's good that they have a record of your pregnancy as soon as possible. They generally don't want to see you for quite a while on the NHS but they may offer you an early scan as well. Otherwise you have to wait until you're 12 weeks along before they do a scan - that's in my experience anyway. But your doc will probably want you to get some forms filled in for your local midwifery team and may even hand you the scary books where your midwife/midwives have to write down all the information about every appointment you've had.  
Good luck and enjoy!  
x


----------



## Buffy68

Hello everyone, I read this quote from Rhonda Britten and thought of all of us on this board  

"When we allow obstacles to stop us, we are allowing fear to determine our progress. When we give obstacles power over us, we are saying we are victims of circumstance and are helpless to change them. When we think obstacles define our path, we are not connected to our vision, passion or purpose. 

"When we are clear why we do what we do, obstacles become a mere formality. They become a fun challenge, an opportunity to learn more about who we are and show us how to become more fearless."


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## annabell99

Ambition-

There was a woman in the Tommys leaflet talking about their latest research project using abdominal and cervical stitches - this had helped her have a succesful twin pregnancy after miscarriages.

I couldn't immediately see the same information on the website but under "current research" the project is listed (link below). Maybe you could contact them to ask more?

http://www.tommys.org/Page.aspx?pid=364

xx


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## Ambition

You're a superstar - thank you, I will!


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## ClareTG

Annabell! - YEAY - That's such great news. I'm so very chuffed for you! Hope the news is sinking in a bit now. I was the same as you with the pure shock of it - & also this being my 1st ever pregnancy i think i was expecting to intuitively know that i felt somehow different when i didn't at all. So a couple of weekes before you know how many are in there - eek! Fingers crossed it all goes well.

Sue - yes i too had the Geeta chat on our 1st failed attempt. I actually felt quite calmed by the fact that they were surprised it had failed - i think i liked her confidence that we could do it - whether it was blind faith or not (& as lots of others have pointed out she is a pro).

I have the irish catholic background & took almost perverse pleasure in testing the water with both my mum & the mum-in-law, telling them that the catholic church was anti-IVF. Both were quite non-plussed bless em. My mum has been mostly good but has had her insensitive moments - like never telling me if relatives or children of her friends were pregnant - obviously thinking she was protecting me but actually making me feel like a leper!

Buffy - I like that quote - it's good to train one's mind to think of obstacles as fun challenges (sometimes not so fun but a challenge to smash through all the same!). Glad you broke your diet for valentine's day - nice treat!

I too hate the whole press storm about women supposedly sacrificing their fertility for careers. Honestly i know so few supposed career woman - those at work seem to have kids anyway. We're almost the 1st generation who didn't have to marry young & leave the family home & most of us didn't meet anyone to settle down with in our twenties when our fertility is at it's peak. So few of us deliberately put it off when the opportunity is there to start a family. Grrr. Typical Daily Mail journalism!

CW - hope you get to avoid being induced. I've heard curry, sex & raspberry leaf tea (not necessarily in that order) - you've probably tried all of them by now. Good luck.

Mangoeater - thanks for alerting us all. Such a shame you had such a stressful experience with them that it's put you off them.

Lulu - hope you've got your special delivery!

Susie - My poor family & close friends have known since the beginning as they knew we were doing the FET - i feel for them as this will seem like an elephant's gestation by the time August finally comes around.  I used to go to a guy in Clapham (called Alex?) by Clapham common - he was lovely & treated a lot of women going through IVF & afterwards.

Natasha - hope you're coping & are in a bubble of bliss (in between feeding & sleeping!)

Love to all
xx


----------



## Sunshine42

Hello Ladies,

Just wanted to report that all went well at the 8 week scan yesterday, unfortunately Create had lost my records again (same happened last time), so they were set up for a 12 week scan instead of an 8 week scan, but never mind. The embryo had grown dramatically and looked a little more like a human being... Booked the 12 week nuchal scan for mid March. Still dealing with the nausea and sickness and having no idea what to eat on a day to day basis, DH now has a cold to match my virus so we are a right pair..

On the subject of mothers (bless em..) I am thinking of telling mine the good news, she has been calling me every day since I've been off work checking up on me, I think she may suspect something. But not ready to tell the rest of the clan or friends, still seems way too early.

Buffy - Loved your quote, life really is about how you deal with the obstacles... but sometimes it takes an almightly effort to get there. I like you got married at 39, didn't met DH til I was 36, so TTC earlier at peak fertility was not an option.

Annabell - great blood test results and try not to worry too much about one or two, even if it is two you will get extra care and monitoring and be looked after just fine. So exciting...

Clare - so glad to hear that the sickness is fading, it must be such a relief. I laughed at your comment about taking pleasure at telling your Mum and MIL about the IVF, as so many of us have commented our Mums have a huge impact on our lives and not always in a positive way.

Well - off to attempt to eat some lunch!

Love to all - Sunshine xx


----------



## annabell99

Hi Sunshine-

Good to hear that your 8 week scan went well!  

Sorry for my ignorance but is an 8 week scan a normal part of the process? I thought it went from  6 weeks to 3 months... although that is a very big gap.

I hope your lunch has stayed down   

xx


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## NatashaM

Woohoo Annabell!! Go you. Another positive. This is fantastic news.

I am holed up in St Helier hospital. My liver functions tests are all over the place and although my blood pressure came down after I delivered him it was up to 150/96 just now. 

I wrote a big long update on Wednesday morning for all my friends so I hope you don't mind if I just copy and paste it here.


I'm in St Helier hospital, in Carshalton. We were transferred here from Kings on Sunday night after a horrible few days of knowing that I had to get Alexander out because he wasn't doing well and not being able to because King's didn't have any special care cots for him. Any issues since delivery have been as nothing compared to that sense of time running out and feeling like I was actually hurting my own baby by keeping him inside me. I knew my placenta had got so crap by this weekend just gone that his oxygen and nutrient supplies were so low they were mostly being diverted to his brain at the expense of his other organs – so it felt like I was slowly at first and then not-so-slowly suffocating my own baby. Awful.

We knew there might be problems from very early on because of my low PAPP-A blood test. As well as being a sign for certain chromosomal abnormalities it can signify that the placenta might get into trouble later on in the pregnancy – I think one in five people with low PAPP-A go on to develop pre-eclampsia and/or IUGR. I was one of the unlucky ones but of course it could have been a lot worse and I am lucky I got to nearly 35 weeks before it became important for me to deliver him. There were further issues at a scan I had at 22 weeks that checked the blood flow through the uterine artery. There was increased resistance on one side, which also is an indicator for the aforementioned problems. I was scheduled an extra scan at 28 weeks to check the growth.

At the 28 week scan he did have quite small measurements for his abdomen and femur – but his head was near the top of the scale. This is another sign of IUGR – as I said, the baby diverts the energy to the most important organ; his brain. My blood pressure was also high at this appointment (although the lady who scanned me took my blood pressure just after explaining about the growth issue so I'm not surprised!) and we were transferred from midwife led care to being looked after by a consultant. We started with Miss Jain but as the blood pressure issues got worse we were transferred to Mr Nick Kametas's team. Mr Kametas is a really lovely man and I will always be grateful to him for doing the best for my family – he took such good care of us. I had a growth scan with him at 30 weeks and 3 days which wasn't too bad and he and his team started me on beta blockers for my high blood pressure. I had to collect my wee for 24 hours as well – lugging it around in one of those plastic bottles with a handle (Jody said it looked like scrumpy). Luckily, although I had high blood pressure, I didn't develop any other pre-eclampsia symptoms like protein in the wee. I did later on have some problems with one of my liver enzymes but that was right near the end so I don't know much about it.

After we were taken under the care of the blood pressure clinic I did my best to rest as much as possible and Joe took amazing care of me. He checked my blood pressure about four times a day and did all the cooking and was kind and wonderful. Although it was stressful I felt very close to him, and we didn't snap or row much at all. Our nerves were frayed but we needed to be there for each other.

We started going to the clinic weekly but as my blood pressure got worse and needed stronger doses of Labetalol to be controlled we had to go in more often. Last Wednesday (a week ago today although it seems a lot longer) Mr Kametas did another growth scan and checked the blood flow through the cord and in Alexander's cerebral artery. It wasn't good. He decided to re-check it on the Friday and explained to us that he felt it would probably be best to deliver Alexander soon – like in the next few days. It was hard to get my head round even though I knew it had been a possibility almost from the start. I think Joe went into denial a bit. When I went back on Friday for the repeat scan I actually took a few bits with me, thinking it was possible that I might be admitted (but also not really wanting to believe it). I took a nightie and my toy rabbit that my dad got me the day I was born and a book to read. The dopplers were indeed worse and Mr Kametas sprang into action. He took us straight across to the labour ward and handed over to the team there and asked them to get me ready for delivery – I needed two steroid injections 24 hours apart to mature Alexander's lungs and I was to be delivered by caesarian as soon after that as possible.

I was transferred from the labour ward down to the pre and post natal ward at some point on Friday night. We had been advised that Kings was really full and we might well have to be transferred out to a hospital that had room for me and a special care cot for the baby. Saturday and Sunday were the worst two days. I knew what was coming and I knew that my baby wasn't doing well inside me. I just wanted him out safely. It was horrible waiting and waiting on the ward. On Saturday I think I saw a registrar first thing in the morning and then I didn't see any doctors all day. I kept asking and asking about the transfer and one doctor told my midwife that I was not for transfer under any circumstances which was the opposite of what everyone else had said and I think held things up by 24 hours. Anyway there was a chance I'd get the caesarian at Kings on Sunday around lunchtime so I was nil by mouth and on pre-meds from midnight Saturday. On Sunday morning a nice consultant and his team came round and said that they were going to do the op that day. I was so thrilled. The anaesthetist came round as well and went through the epidural with me so I really felt it was going to happen. I was so relieved. But then the consultant came back and said they'd had another emergency – someone was having their baby at 27 weeks and I couldn't have my caesarian there that day so they'd start ringing round other hospitals. I cried. I felt like we were running out of time. Luckily I was having regular CTGs (baby heart monitoring) and I knew that there was nothing terrible or immediately wrong with Alexander.

As Sunday afternoon wore on, I kept asking if they'd found a hospital for me. A few hours later it transpired that no one had even started ringing. I was at my lowest. I kept thinking they won't do anything for me until I become an emergency and to say that I didn't want things to get to that stage is the world's biggest understatement. They let me have something to eat at about 4pm – until that point I hadn't had anything. The stress and the low blood sugar combined put me the nearest to despair I have been throughout the whole experience.

When the news finally did come, it was quick. They had found us both space at St Helier hospital in Carshalton. Fine. Anything. So Joe went home for a couple of hours and Toby kept me company while we waited for the ambulance to take me. They arrived at about 7.30 I think and Robin the registrar saw me off and said I should have the caesarian at about midnight. As we left I saw the other couple who we know – Martin and Sam - coming down from special care having seen their little boy, Martin gave me a hug and wished me good luck.

The journey to Carshalton in the ambulance didn't take as long as I'd thought it might. It is so hard to judge distance when you don't have any windows to look out of and you're facing backwards. The midwife that accompanied me was very funny. She'd been in the first gulf war and worked on air/sea rescue and had helped with Cate Blanchett's delivery. We arrived and went to the wrong floor initially, the pre and post natal ward rather than the labour ward. A midwife made strange faces at us and then pointed upwards which didn't instil me with a great deal of confidence.

We went up and I met Joe in a delivery room. I thanked the Kings midwife and the ambulance crew and they left us. The delivery room was really weird and sparse and not exactly conducive to a good night's sleep. It seemed that they wanted to wait until 9am to do the caesarian. I did explain that the people at King's were hoping that it would be that night. I felt like the whole nightmare of endless delays had started again but at least it was less than 12 hours until the time they'd scheduled for the caesarian so I tried to sleep. They bought in another bed for Joe and parked it next to the funny delivery couch that I was sleeping on. It didn't have head or foot boards or sides and it was very thin so I kept thinking I was going to fall off. I got a few hours of sleep, but they did keep coming in to do more CTGs so I was semi-conscious a lot of the time. At about 5.30 the plan changed again as there wasn't much in the way of accelerations on the CTG. They like to see bits where the heartbeat speeds ups – if it is on one constant level all the time it isn't so good. So they woke us up properly by saying they were going to the caesarian at about 6am.

I was so glad that Joe hadn't gone home. We didn't want to be a nuisance and he nearly did drive home to come back again. If he had I'd have had to go through the caesarian on my own. Doesn't bear thinking about.

I signed the consent form and they went through all the risks again and the anaesthetist told me his thing and we went to the operating theatre. It was very jolly in there. Everyone was joking around and they did their best to put me at my ease. I was shaking uncontrollably before they put the epidural in but I knew I was going to have to stop. I remembered my hypnotherapist's voice and just played it in my head while he did the injections. To be honest they didn't hurt at all. I felt a tiny prick for the local and I didn't feel the epidural needle at all. It was a bit odd as it took effect. I had the sensation of being filled up with hot water from my toes up to just below my boobs. They sprayed cold spray on me to check how it had worked and when they were satisfied they put up the screen and started. I had Joe right next to me and I was remembering Christine (the hypnotherapist)'s words about staying loose and limp and relaxed. I could feel what was going on but I couldn't feel any pain, it was just as people who have had caesarians have described them to me. You do feel quite a lot of pushing and pulling inside. The surgeon at one point said 'I have to make another cut' but she didn't sound panicked and it didn't worry me unduly. I think it took about fifteen minutes to get him out – he was born at 6.31 - and we heard him cry straight away. I was sure I could hear him crying in the next room but Joe said 'no that's some other baby' but the theatre staff said 'no, that's yours'. I was talking to Joe and suddenly realised he wasn't there by my head at one point but then he came back holding Alexander all wrapped up in a blanket. I turned my head to see his little face and said hello. I think I touched him but I'm not sure. I think I said 'quick, give him back' because I didn't want to interrupt what the paediatricians were doing and I was worried about him.

After they sewed me up, they took me to recovery for a few hours and my legs felt really strange as the sensation started to return. The surgeon came and explained about the extra cut she had to do, apparently my uterus is heart shaped (technical term – bicornate) rather than round so it was a bit trickier to get him out. This will also explain why he was breech and unable to turn. I'm a bit surprised that will all the many, many scans I've had that no one noticed that or saw fit to tell me. He was also quite a bit smaller than the scans had estimated although one doctor said to Joe that he might have been bigger earlier in the week but started to use up his own body fat. That made me feel awful for him – he has put on some even in the 2 days since he arrived though.

The consultant came to see me as well and seemed a bit ****** off that Kings had said I was going to have the caesarian at midnight on Sunday. I hope Robin the registrar doesn't get into trouble. He said that there hadn't really been any need to do it at 6am but it was always better to err on the side of caution, but that the CTGs hadn't been bad. I know from when I was pregnant that Alexander seemed to sleep when I slept – I was never woken up by kicking at night but he'd always have a good bounce around just after I had breakfast so maybe he was just doing what he always did. I am really glad that it was a few hours early because the surprise meant that Joe and I didn't have time to think about it – we just went along.

They transferred me to the pre and post natal ward on the floor below some time later on Monday and I was in a bed in a four bed room with three other women who all had their babies with them. I felt rather low for not having him with me but I was happy that he was doing well. Joe popped back and forth between neonatal and my room with photos and progress reports and the cheering news that he'd been moved out of an incubator and into a cot in the afternoon.

My mum and Joe's parents and Niki all came to see us. Mum was very put out that only parents can go into neonatal, but I think it is fair enough. You need to keep the possibility of infections to a minimum and there are other, properly poorly babies in there. Niki came via marks and spencer and bought lots of lovely food. I was supposed to wait until I'd been checked by a midwife before eating but it was too tempting and I had some olives and mini scotch eggs and stuff. The best bit was eating some brie. I have missed soft cheese a lot.

By the evening I felt that I was ready to attempt getting into a wheelchair and going across to see him. I had to ask quite a few times because a midwife had to check me over before giving me the ok. I was persistent. While I was waiting I asked to be shown how to express colostrum and I got a lesson so I was able to send a little syringe full through to him. It might have only been a token amount but it made me feel a bit less useless. I've been able to build up the amount since. I think I did about four yesterday.

When I got there I was terrified. He was so little. I didn't want to break him. Joe's a lot more confident at handling him than I am. I held him for a little while but he needs to sleep and grow and stay warm so I didn't have him out of his cot for long. He's in a room with three other babies.

Yesterday I was able to walk so I shuffled over about three or four times to see him. We had a go at feeding and he managed to suck a tiny bit but he fell asleep on me. We had a lesson on how to change a nappy – he had a very, very full one. The nurse cleaned him up and changed him while we watched and then I had a go at feeding and he did another poo straight away so we were able to try out our new skills.

He is a beautiful little baby. When I went over on my own I sat next to his cot and looked at his little face and I started bawling. When they asked me what was wrong I couldn't speak at first but I just managed to get out “he's so lovely”. They laughed and gave me some tissues. The doctors and nurses seem very positive and not-worried about him. I am doing my best not to worry either. He is so precious. I love him so much.


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## annabell99

CONGTATULATIONS NATASHA!         

That all sounds very stressful but it has such a happy ending, it made me cry. I hope all is well with you and Alexander (lovely name!)

Lots of love xx

PS when I saw  you were in St Helier hospital I first thought they had sent you to Jersey, which even for the NHS would be pretty bad


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## Sunshine42

Oh Natasha - I'm crying too reading your post. CONGRATULATIONS!!!!
A very very stressful time for you but what a reward, a beautiful, well and safe baby boy and you got to eat some Brie...  Take care and enjoy being a Mum. xx


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## Sunshine42

Annabell - I had an extra scan at 8 weeks because my prior MC was at 7 weeks and I was so nervous I needed the reassurance. Create will scan you as many times as you would like - an early preg scan not included in the IVF package is £175, as you say it is a huge gap between 6 and 12 weeks, especially when your body is going through all sorts of weird feelings an extra scan to see the babys development is very comforting. I was tempted to scan again at 10 weeks but Prof Campbell said everything should be fine just go for 12 weeks.

Sunshine x


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## NatashaM

Aw, thank you both so much.

Create gave me a scan as part of the package at about 7 or 8 weeks to see the heartbeat. Then I paid extra for one at 12 weeks with Prof Campbell because I was too nervous to wait for the NHS one.

Here's a little pic of Alexander.

http://i47.tinypic.com/34fxxeq.jpg

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## SusieB20

Just a quick note to Natasha to say congratulations on your beautiful little boy - he's gorgeous!! It sounds like quite an ordeal that you went through but the main thing is that he arrived safely and is receiving very good care. Hope it's not too long before you get to go home

xxx


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## annabell99

Thank you for the info Sunshine!

Natasha- he's gorgeous! 

xx


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## Ambition

I've got tears in my eyes too. Can't see to type! Well done!


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## cwsg

well done Natasha

cwsg

By the way i think i've decided to delay the induction untill Monday. I must go into hospital tomorrow and disccuss it with a consultant.


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## suesunday

Oh Natasha! How lovely - I mean horrible, but lovely! Sounds incredibly stressful - particularly when you're not sure that the doctors are doing the right or even consistent thing, but oh, how worth it. Look at the little cutie pie! What a doll. Congratulations! An actual baby! So amazing! (Sorry - I know that's what we're all here for, but it still seems bonkers to me that ladies can grow whole other people inside them. Isn't it strange and sort of magical?)

Thank you so much for the update - have been bursting to know. Am made up for you, and hope that the little one can go home soon too. (Incidently, I watched a programme about preemies, which a) makes me an expert _obviously _ and b) doesn't really encompass Alexander who is just a tiny bit early - but in case interested, their conclusion was that quiet is good, body contact with mum is good and dark is good - in order to get as close as possible to conditions in the womb while allowing for them having to mostly be in the incubators. I have stored this info like the mad woman I am in case I ever need to know this  .)

And not just a baby pic, but a knit pic too! Rounds of applause all round. Double well done!

And you won't break him. My mum was terrified too - couldn't even bath me in case she drowned me! I didn't break as it turned out. Alexander won't either!

xxx


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## lulumead

congratulations Natasha (& Joe!), and hello baby Alexander, you look like a real lovely one    
Hope he continues to do well and you get to take him home soon.

CWSG: you're up next! sending you lots of vibes for a lovely smooth ride....as it were  

Hope everyone else doing well. My magic   have arrived and I have a scan on Tuesday to check all is ok.
Whose up for treatment next?

xx


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## Buffy68

Natasha - congratulations   and thank you for finding the time to fill us all in.  I was wondering how you got on.  I am sorry to hear that your whole experience was on the stressful side.  Childbirth, like conception, really shouldn't be like this, our medical profession might be technically excellent but they still seem to have a lot to learn.   I'm not surprised your blood pressure is a bit high.  Anyway the important thing is that you're both OK and it sounds like Alexander (lovely name) is going to be just fine.    Hope you get to take him home soon.  You'll have a good story to tell him when he is older about the day he was born.

Lulumead - good luck with your scan on Tuesday.  

cwsg - hope you go into labour over the weekend and don't need the induction on Monday  

Sunshine - so glad your scan went well, do you feel more reassured now you are safely past the 7 week mark?

Annabell - how did your doctor's appointment go?  Did she/he say anything about the liklihood of twins?  If you are really concerned maybe you could phone Lakshmi and ask what she thought.  Hopefully you're worrying about nothing and the high levels just mean a strong pregnancy.  My mother was worried about giving birth to me because she was quite slight and the doctor kept saying stuff about my father's "big head".  I got out OK though!  How old was your mother when she lost her ovary?  I was 20 and one of my fears is that because the one remaining has had to do all the work since then it might be knackered now.

Ambition - I have heard of the mind/body connection, is that what you mean or are you talking about something more specific than that?  I have just got a fertility/relaxation CD to listen to and am going to start meditating as well.  Unfortunateley I have had a stressful couple of weeks at work but I'm hoping this will ease up as I really need to get my body more relaxed if I'm going for peak fertility.  PMT has been dreadful this week,   I think because of the stress.  We women are such sensitive creatures to our environment!

love to everyone else
Buffy


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## ClareTG

Natasha - so wonderful to hear you're OK & you have little Alexander. I too was watery eyed reading about your ordeal (not a good look when i'm at work!). Sorry you had to go through all that stress but well done on the result - he looks so gorgeous. I know what Suesunday means about all that magical creation going on to produce a new little human  - amazing!

Sunshine - amazing to see them forming on a scan isn't it? Glad it went well. I wish i could give you morning sickness tips but i never really found any myself - it's such a bore! Rest up & get lots of sleep is all i can recommend.

Lulu - glad your special delivery has arrived all in order - good luck for Tuesday.

Buffy - hope your relaxation CDs are doing the trick & the stress calms down.

CW - good luck for this weekend - or monday if you make it til then. I'll be thinking of you.

Love to everyone else too

xxx


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## suesunday

Hallo ladies, 
CSWG - good luck! 

Mangoeater - thanks for those questions and the heads up - it's very helpful. But I'm really sorry that you had to go through the wringer to get some resolution. It's really awkward if you feel even slightly at odds with the clinic that you're also relying on to help you. I think someone else (I can't see that far back on the page now!) suggested sitting down with someone there and telling them how it's made you feel uneasy - it might be a good idea to try to make you feel more comfortable? 

Sunshine - great news about the scan! Must be a real joy to see the little one doing well. And a relief - difficult not to worry I bet around 7 weeks. Well done! 

Buffy - I love that about your mum's great age at 32 making pregnancy difficult! Sorry to hear that work has been hard going - it's very frustrating when you're trying to look after yourself otherwise isn't it?    Interested to hear if the CD does the business. 

Ambition - so what's your current plan of action? Did you say in an earlier post that you hadn't got pregnant for a year since your last m/c? The (lovely) hypnotherapist I saw a couple of times at Zita West said that sometimes the body takes a long time to recover from a m/c - like your body goes through the pregnancy and won't get pregnant again until you've recovered. She said she thought women got too impatient after m/c and jumped at IVF - although that is exactly what I'm doing! I got pregnant in the first month I tried and since then virtually nothing. 

Lulu - when's the double squirt!?    How does the timing work? (Interested to see if I can pick up lessons for ttc naturally.) Good luck for Tuesday. 

Clare - ah! Your poor mum - trying her best to say the right thing. Mine does the opposite - she quizzes people in Islington cafes, neighbours, people in pubs and then comes back with various IVF stories and updates about all these poor people's fertility journeys - and their age! It's very funny and very sweet. (My parents are also, in case that ability to extract deeply personal information from strangers doesn't give it away, Irish.) 

Annabell - I meant to say, yes, the cardigan is for me. I long since gave up knitting for other people & babies! Non-knitters never appreciate how much work went into it. Am supposed to be doing ravelympics - don't ask - at the moment. Doing very badly. 

Susie - hope it's going well. And love to anyone I've missed! 

Did anyone else have mid cycle spotting following IVF? I had quite a bit of it yesterday and this morning. I'm pretty sure I ovulated on Thursday. I guess it could be something to do with that? Never had it before. Was slightly freaked out. TMI alert: brown blobs and stuff and beige discharge? Tiny tiny bit of pink. Any clues? Have left a message with the clinic asking them what they think. 

I also had an NHS appointment at Guys this week. They also thought I shouldn't bother with IVF as we were bound to nail it ourselves.   But I haven't! For more than a year! Anyway, she recommended a hysteroscopy, to check the old tubes weren't blocked following the miscarriage, so now I've got more bum bullets. Hurrah! Got to try to organise it so it's the first half of my next cycle... (Sighs)

xxx


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## lulumead

hi suesunday...

re squirts!  I will have a HCG then 36 hours and then 24 hours after that. Basically if doing IUI with a partner Geeta recommends 36 hours after HCG and some natural fun too!!!

hello everyone else.

xx


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## cwsg

Lulumead - does this mean your trying IUI with your american boyfriend?

I'm really trying everything to get my labour going. Sex, long walks and now curry. Feeling delirios after the curry though.

Aparently, todays monitoring showed tightenings, which a the start of contractions! It sounds hopefull, but aparently thet can just stop. So i've got tomorrow for more action.   for no induction.

cwsg


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## lulumead

sounding good cwsg, hope it all kicks off before you have to be induced. 

Not trying naturally, am having two squirts of donor sperm - just realised my post was misleading!...basically Geeta just pointed out that with couples she would do one squirt and then suggest natural!

Mr NY is back at the end of March - but am not holding out any hope that he will be up for anything. Haven't seen him since August so plenty of time for things to change and we never discussed it continuing, but it will be lovely to see him anyway - unless he announces he is getting married, might not be quite so much fun then!

xx


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## suesunday

Lulu - I'm sure you don't listen to the Archers (are not prematurely old like me!) but I was very excited today when I heard that Helen has decided to have donor sperm! I've been screeching at the radio with joy! Although I'm not a big Helen fan - I'm still very excited to have a bit of Lulu-type goings on to listen to!     I hope she mentions double squirts in an episode.


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## annabell99

Hi all!

Natasha- hope you and Alexander are doing well! 

CWSG- Fingers crossed that your little one is on it's way now without the induction!   

Lulu- Are you about to start your cycle now? Double squirts does sound funny, but it makes good sense. 

Sue- I have googled Ravelpmpics- what a good idea! Is that what the cardigan is for? Shamefully I tend to knit my wonky blanket while watching "Top model" or "Relocation" -not quite as classy as the Olympics. Yes I did have mid-cycle spotting following my December cycle, we never knew what it was but seemed not to cause any long-term problems, so try not to worry too much. I wondered if it was something to do with ovulating for the first time after egg collection   Is a hysteroscopy an actual operation   ? Could they not check your tubes with a HSG?

Clare- hope all is well!   LOL at your telling your mum and MIL. I think desire for grandchildren overrides most other issues  ! My mum has been great although I did have to ban her from (constant!) helpful suggestions re diet, vitamins etc.

Buffy- My doc was totally uninterested and said "oh well it's early days yet" in a very discouraging way  . So I didn't ask any questions about the HCG level! My mum was around 27 I think when she lost the ovary (she had 5 more chlidren after losing it). I don't think that having only one makes that one wear out quicker? My understanding is that both ovaries produce lots of small antral follicles every month and then one follicle goes on to be dominant and the rest disintegrate (I think?   ) so although if you have two ovaries the dominant folllicle may come from a different one  each month , they still both lose a similar number of antral follicles each month. My little sis lost an ovary at 15, she is still too young to have thought about fertility issues BUT she certainly wasn't told that her one ovary would "run out" sooner. You could check with a doc though if you want to put your mind at rest?  

Ambition, Susie, Sunshine- I hope all is well with you!     

AFM we went to see a friend in Bristol on Sat and ended up on a tourist ferry which had quite violent engine vibrations - so of course I am now convinced that i have vibrated the little one out of place  . This wait for the scan is as bad as the original 2WW! I have quite bad backache at the moment which feels like AF is about to start any minute. No spotting though. Did anyone else experience this? 

Lots of love to all

xxxx


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## allieallie

Hi,
I've been reading FF on and off for the past 2 years, but just recently joined. (Poor responder, ivf here and there and everywhere, including Create; then decided to take a break for a  while; but in process of coming back). 

Congratulations Natasha, it sounds like you've been through so much, but your story is inspirational. And everyone else's experiences have been so helpful to hear about.

I'm wondering if anyone is taking DHEA? I had taken for a few months, but told to go off it by other clinic as it raised prog. levels; and my first appt w Create a while back they didnt seem too thrilled about DHEA. So I havent gone back to it. But trying to think of what else I could be doing on my end.

Also wanted to show support for Mangoeater and everyone else who's had policy or financial problems. I had a somewhat similar situation more than a year ago, and to be honest, did not speak up as much as I should have, so ended up spending much more money than I should have. It really is taxing and stressful, and I agree, every clinic has annoyances. But it's also in our interest to speak up. Otherwise the clinic thinks only one woman is having a problem.

In my induction, I'd been told that (esp for poor responders, who get scanned w every AF and get told whether an ivf cycle is possible that month)--  if on the first scan they say "no", one just pays for that scan. If they say "yes", one just pays for that scan; and if they say "yes" again at the second scan, then one pays the full ivf price.  (However, I've met other women who were told in their induction that now you have to pay the full ivf price at the first scan if they say "yes").  

It happened like that once -- I paid the ivf fee at the 2nd scan (which was later refunded when the cycle was abandoned a couple of scans later). Then the next time, they made me pay the full ivf price on the first scan when they said "yes". The second scan it turned out that actually I had cysts not follies that month (so the first scan was like a mistake); but yet they made me pay the full price of an "abandoned cycle" (then £500). I tried to ask them to consider that the first scan mistakenly said I had follicles, but no one got back to me; and when they finally did, they didnt help at all; and I just decided to let it be. There is a huge difference between "abandoning" a cycle where there were follies; and making a mistake that there were follies in the first place.

The time after that, they said "no" on the first scan... and Create asked me to pay up £500 ("abandoned cycle fee") right then and there -- for that one scan!!! They mumbled something about how even one scan is considered a "cycle" from the moment they push the damn probe into you; but I was so bloody upset, they talked to someone and let me pay for the one scan -- which I had been assured in my induction months before was the policy anyway.

Everyone should know that Create has upped their "abandoned cycle" fee by a whopping £200 as of November, to £750. Its the only price they increased by more than £10. Its also I think now the most expensive abandoned cycle fee of any clinic in London (correct me if I'm wrong). 

After reading recent posts here, I noticed that Create's new price list still does not explain the difference between a "cancelled" and "abandoned" cycle. Nor does it clearly explain the policy of only paying for one scan if you are told "no" that month. They really should. 

In the incident above, I was first told I should expect to pay an "abandoned cycle fee" every single month on the first scan if I was told "no", because each first scan is considered the start of an ivf cycle. Then when they saw how upset I was, they mumblingly changed their tune, and said oh it is a case by case situation. I was so dejected, honestly, I just left and let it be. I should have spoken up more, and I did not. It really is ridiculous to expect women, esp poor responders, who may be told "no" month after month on that first scan, that they should expect to fork over a full "abandoned cycle" fee (now £750).

I cant remember if I was not refunded my HFEA fee when the cycle didnt go ahead, I'll have to check records. But its' definitely happened at other clinics -- and I've gotten the fee back. Technically, the HFEA only charges a clinic when an egg and sperm are mixed. While they say that clinics have different practices of passing the fee on or not, really the clinic is not supposed to pass the HFEA fee on if the cycle is abandoned. So if any of you do get a refund, DO look and see if your HFEA fee was also refunded. If it was not, do ask why.

Since then, I've met several Create women who were also confused about all this. If just a few of us are this confused, I'm sure there are many more. I'm sure Create doesnt want to have scores of upset women calling them, so it really is in their interest to clarify all this.

Sorry to seem so negative, but I'm doing this to be supportive. And to let any of you know that you're not alone in this kind of stress, which should be the least of our problems!

Thanks for listening, I hope my experiences are helpful to know about.


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## NatashaM

Hi All,

Hope everyone is doing well.

Buffy - happy birthday for the other day! Sorry I missed your thread. Did you do anything nice?

Suesunday - Thanks for the good wishes. I agree it is a bit mental but magical that we can grow other people. It is so funny looking at him and thinking that he was inside me. And when he hiccups it is just like when he used to get hiccups inside but I can hear them too now. Good luck with the hysteroscopy, I hope that the results are good news.

cswg - I hope you are ok. It's Tuesday today isn't it? You might be actually having your baby today. Amazing. Wishing you lots and lots of luck for whenever it happens.

Clare - Sorry for making you cry! I hope it was good crying. I hope you are doing well.

Annabell - I am SO SURE that the vibrating ferry did not do you any harm but I know how difficult it is to be rational when so much is at stake. Remember we all thought we had sqeezed them out when pushing to do a number two! Hahaha. It will be fine. x

Allieallie - I share your unease about the pricing policy for so-called 'abandoned' cycles. It seems almost as though they are preying on the vulnerable. I find it so hard to rationalise how all the seemingly kind and lovely people at Create could enforce such a policy. I know they didn't with me - they said just to pay for the one scan as I still had a blood filled cyst on the month when they decided not to go ahead with FET. Hmm. The large increase in the abandoned cycle fee is not good at all. I hope all ladies here will ask about this policy when they go for their appointments. They need to know that clients won't stand for being charged £500 for one scan.

We are still in St Helier hospital in our respective wards. Alexander is taking more of his milk from my boobs rather than from his NG tube. He's fed every four hours round the clock now and I get up and give him his food every time. The broken sleep is quite difficult but I have it easier than most new mums. I get all my food bought to me and I have nurses on hand all the time to help me with the breastfeeding and give good advice. My liver functions tests are normalising. I am trying to lay low so they don't discharge me. I really don't want to miss any chance to feed him. I think my brain is coming back too - I beat Joe by 18 questions to 13 on university challenge last night (there's a little sitting room with a telly for parents in the neonatal unit). The nurses in neonatal are amazing. We keep giving them cakes and posh biscuits

A more recent pic of the baby - http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2dhtnv4&s=6

Ambition, Lulu and everyone else I've not mentioned by name - lots and lots of love.

N xx

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## LEECOWDEN

Hi everyone, 

I have recently set up a ******** group for Create Clinic, one for the ladies and one for the men, the idea is this is another space to offer support to patient's (past and present) if you would like to join, search for create health clinic in groups and you will find them.

Leex


----------



## Buffy68

Hello everyone

Natasha - I hope you are still taking it easy (apart from the sleep deprivation) in hospital and glad to hear all is well.  Thanks for posting another photo, he seems to be changing even in the few days since the last one.

Allieallie - I have found different people at Create expect payment for the full cycle at different times.  If it looks promising on the first scan you usually have to pay for the whole thing I find.  Sometimes if the first scan was unclear I've been able to hold off paying until we know more, sometimes not.  I've never found much consistency in the area of payment generally.  I think £750 is OK if you've had 3 or more scans but definitely out of order after one little scan.  I don't think the Hfea fee has ever been refunded to me once paid and I was told they have to pay the Hfea even if the cycle does not get to EC.  Is there anything on the Hfea site that says they only charge the fee once the sperm and egg have been mixed?

Annabell - how are you feeling now?  Any strange symptoms yet?  I have heard lower back ache is an early indicator of pregnancy.  A pity your doctor was not more helpful.  I am sure the ferry did no harm whatsover.  Thank you for explaining that both ovaries are producing and abandoning potential eggs every month.  I just assumed one got a rest while the other one did it!  I feel better about my lone ovary now.

Sue - good luck with the hysteroscopy!  It's probably a good idea just to get everything checked out.

cwsg - looking forward to catching up on your birth story. 

Thank you for all the birthday wishes everyone, especially Mac Cook for starting the thread!  I had a lovely time with a group of friends, although unfortunately I now have to update my age at the bottom of my posts!!!  (I also broke my diet for 24 hours and even had a glass of champagne!)  I am awaiting AF at the moment.  I had a surge on day 11 so it is due about now.  I have had cramps since Saturday but no show so far.  I hope I'm not going to skip it again.  The stress has continued at work (grrrr) but hopefully after Friday things should get back to normal and I can start my new relaxation regime.

love to all
Buffy


----------



## Mandamae

Hello Girls, I'm sooooo glad I've finally found you!             
And a huge thank you to Lee for helping me!  

Well I must be quick as going out tonight for the first time in 7 months.
Anyway we were going to go to the ARGC for our next tx next summer 2011- but only as we'd have to save £10,000!
Then on thursday i just suddenly thought about natural IVF and googled it and found Create. It felt soooo right and now i hopefully will have natural ivf or mild ivf later this year. 
I'm so excited i just know i have made the right decision! I haven't made an appointment yet, we're going to the open day in april before we book - but maybe I won't be able to wait till then and will just book anyway.

So glad again to have found you all, I look forward to 'meeting' you all  

mandamae xx


----------



## annabell99

Hi all!

Mandamae - welcome to the thread! I felt just they way you describe when I first found out about Create - it just "felt right". I hope it works out well for you!  

Buffy - No strange symptoms AT ALL so I'm still doing the HPTs to convince myself it's real! The backache has stopped, I miss it a bit now   . I'm glad you feel better about your one ovary    When you wrote your whole tx history on your signature a few days ago it really really wrenched at me, I think you are so brave and you so much deserve this to work out well for you soon. 

Lee- If I join the ******** group will it show up on my ******** profile? 

Natasha- thank you for the picture, it is SO cute and he does look different already! I hope everything is going well and you have managed to stay in hospital with Alexander as long as possible.

Allieallie- Hi! I'm sorry you have had bad experiences with abandoned cycles and I agree that the pricing policy is very unclear. I haven't taken DHEA, I seem to remember that there is some controversy about it (although I'm not sure what  )

CWSG- Looking forward to hearing your news!

AFM, waiting for the scan on Wednesday, a bit nervous because it's so hard to know if anything is going on in there! I'm beginning to think that maybe the worrying never stops - it's just one stage of worries after another  

Lots of love to all 

xxxx


----------



## lulumead

Hello lovelies,

welcome Mandamae, this is a very lovely thread with great support. Look forward to hearing your journey and sharing in your success  

annabell: good luck for weds...look forward to hearing the news.

CWSG: hope you are enjoying the 1st few days with your little one.

Natasha: he is sooooo cute, hope you are all home safe and sound soon. Lovely to see the pics. Makes it all seem real and possible.

big     to everyone else...

AFM: I've had my double basting! All very painless and am now on the 2WW as of today. Not posting about this on the singlies board as sometimes it can get a bit much...so keeping it on the lowdown, so lovely Create-er's might need you to keep me sane  
What's even more strange is that a friend has come forward and offered themselves as a donor...totally out of the blue. Am going to have dinner with him tonight...I always wanted a known donor and can't believe it might now be on offer...so feels weird as obviously I want this go to work but now there is another option on the table which could be even more what I'd like. I suppose I should just see that its a win/win at the moment...if this go works then great and if not then I have another FREE option on the table. Going to be a strange conversation tonight, but he approached me so at least I know he is properly interested.  

More on that, I'm sure....your thoughts might be needed!!!

xx


----------



## annabell99

WOW lulu, what a lot happening! 

Good luck with your 2ww    , it's amazing how straightforward the IUI appears compared to IVF! 

I hope all goes well tonight for your dinner... more details on the friend please! Is it someone you have know for a while?

xx


----------



## lulumead

I know IUI is sooooo simple. Can't believe I've had anything done.

As for friend...he is an artist I have known through work for several years. What's lovely is that he told me that he thought what I was doing was amazing and that it was so rare to find someone who was so determined to have children and knew that they really wanted to, which as I am doing this on my own was really nice to hear someone approve, who is not in my close circle of friends. It could be complicated, well more than an anonymous donor, but I have always thought for a child its got to be nicer for them to know who their father is, even if they are not a dad - so for me, I would just have to make that work. I suggested one of the ways we could do it was the traditional method     he looked a bit scared at that.  

Anyway, better go and make some dinner to take to his. Certainly going to be strange talking about sperm and eggs with him!

xx


----------



## annabell99

Good luck!  Let us know tomorrow how it went ! 

xx


----------



## Mandamae

Lulu you made me   reading about your talk about     and eggs over dinner    

Thank you annabell and lulu for welcoming me to the thread, I look forward to sharing my journey with you on here 

I'm hoping to go with natural ivf but poss mild ivf (i saw in someone's signature they had 3 or 4 natural then switched to mild ivf and got BFP) depends after i've been to the open day and had my 1st consultation with them 

mandamae xx


----------



## Mandamae

Oh it was you annabell  
    

mandamae xx


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## lulumead

Turns out if he does want to do it, it will be the traditional way....we laughed a lot. He is thinking about it more. So all in all as good as it can be at the moment. i suspect he might still say no when he spends more time thinking!
xx


----------



## mangoeater

Hi,
Lulumead, glad to hear about your friend. I think as long as you both have the same mutual understanding, it really can work out. And yes its cheaper.   Whether you do the traditional way or not, at least its an option, and thats wonderful. 

Welcome Mandamae, hope your consult goes well.

Thanks Allieallie for sharing your story about confusion regarding abandoned cycle and scan fees, and confusing first-scans, it was so so helpful to feel I'm not alone. I know that sharing negative experiences about a clinic's operation can have the effect of bringing other women down, or making people feel like one is just a complainer. So I appreciate knowing about your experience, in the spirit it was intended-- to empower other patients, esp those who may have had confusing experiences. We are all vulnerable, we cant easily "take our business elsewhere," and it is upsetting to be told one thing, and when the time comes, be told another thing. 

Annabell, Suesunday, Buffy, and everyone else I may have missed who expressed thoughts about this subject -- I really also appreciate your thoughts, it means a lot to me. And I think its helpful to anyone who goes in for an induction or first consult, to feel like they CAN ask questions then, and they CAN challenge anything that seems confusing. Buffy, your thoughts about how the fees may vary depending on who is there or the exact situation make sense -- I can only hope that when the time comes, we will all be faced with sympathetic and understanding staff. Clinics try to do their best. But we are just women, also trying to do their best. All we want is a baby, right?

And Suesunday, hope the NHS possibility will work out.  
xo
M


----------



## Ambition

Hi guys

I've been away for a while and in that time have have my treatment consultation. Will be starting my first jabs probably next Friday. Thank you Mangoeater and Allie and everyone who gave advice on what to ask in the consultation. I tried really hard to ask the questions in terms of charging what when, but mostly the nurse wasn't sure. However, I still feel confident that I know where we are.

I also asked for the prescription to get drugs myself (they don't suggest it do they?!) - much cheaper! - and i also queried the blood testing charge - i think it's cheaper at the Doctors laboratory on Wimpole Street and am looking into it to double check. They said if it is cheaper, they are fine for me to get my bloods done there.

Also, I got a reply from the HFEA today. Thought you might be interested in how they charge the clinics their fees:

'We are the UK's independent regulator overseeing safe and appropriate practice in fertility treatment and embryo research. We license and monitor clinics carrying out IVF, donor insemination and human embryo research. We also provide a range of information and advice for patients, medical professionals and policy-makers.

In relation to your specific question; a clinic will be charged a HFEA fee when the sperm and egg(s) are mixed during fertility treatment. Please note, however, that the HFEA does not charge individual patients for fertility treatment. Clinics, both NHS and private, pay a fee to us towards the cost of being regulated and inspected. This reflects the number of treatments they perform. Some private clinics, as a matter of individual policy, decide to pass this fee onto their patients as a separate and identifiable item on their bill. Others include this cost in their overall treatment fees, just as they do for the other overheads and costs associated with operating a clinic. Please see here for further information: http://www.hfea.gov.uk/1899.html

Your clinic should give you a personalised costed treatment plan before you start treatment. This will detail the main elements of your treatment (including any investigations or tests), the expected cost and any possible changes to your treatment plan, including the cost implications. You should have an opportunity to discuss this with your clinic before you begin treatment.'

Hope this is of help to others.

Good luck everyone 
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Buffy68

Hello everyone

Ambition - good luck with your first cycle with Create!  I have sometimes had blood tests done with my doctor which is cheaper or even free, however there is a week's wait for the results rather than 1 day!  Where did you get your prescription drugs, from a normal chemist?

Lulumead - would your potential donor want to be involved in raising the child too?  Do you think you could ever be a couple?  Glad to hear the IUI has been relatively painless and wishing you happy thoughts and relaxation for your 2ww.  

Annabell - thanks for the kind thoughts.  When I wrote out the details of the cancelled cycles and their many reasons (!) the first time I used up all the text so I had to rewrite to allow for the story to continue LOL.  How did your scan go, I have been thinking about you today  

Mandamae - hello, I am sure trying some natural cycles is a good idea and I hope you enjoy the open day.

AFM: I just had my surge day 7 so probably ovulating day 8 which is disappointingly early (it was day 12 last month).  However as I've undergone 3 weeks of stress at work, a very non-restful AF, poor sleep and now a throat infection I'm not really surprised.  In fact it has underlined for me how what is going on in your life affects your cycle so much.  Resolution for March is MAKE TIME FOR REST AND RELAXATION!!!  

Best wishes to all
Buffy
xx


----------



## lulumead

hello all

Ambition: thanks for that message from HFEA. Good luck with 1st jabs...its amazing how quickly you become used to doing them!

mandamae: hope things become clearer once you've had a consult.

Annabell: how was it today?

Buffy: some R&R sounds like a very good plan, and it sounds like it is much needed.

Mangoeater: hope you are doing well.

Suesunday, Allieallie, CWSG, Natasha, and Lee...hope you are all ok.

AFM: was a bit weirded out this morning as a bit of blood but think this was probably from the IUI procedure, nothing major as was only once. My head is a bit too full of thinking about the option on the table from the donor friend. He would be about, but not involved...his choice...he basically wants to be anonymous in the beginning. We definitely wouldn't be a couple, he's not interested in me in that way, which is why I was so surprised that he said he would want to do it the normal way if he was going to do it, we laughed about this a bit and I said I would probably need to be a bit tipsy, as I'd be a bit nervous. Always had a bit of crush on him!!! I think its still 50/50 as to whether it will come off anyway, and who knows what this 2WW will bring. If doesn't work I'm booked in for a hysteroscopy anyway....not looking forward to that, anyone had one of those

xxx


----------



## annabell99

Hi all!

Lulu- Don't worry about the blood, it's too early yet to mean anything so it must be from the IUI procedure.    I'm glad your donor friend option sounds like it might be a go-er! Do you think you will be able to cope emotionally with doing it the traditional way ? Especially if you fancy him? (I know that will make the act easier   - I mean afterwards!)

Ambition- good luck with the jabs!   Honestly once you get the first one done they are not that bad.   I didn't know it was possible to buy the drugs elsewhere- never thought about it! Mine were (relatively) not that expensive because it was a very low dose. Interesting info about the HFEA fee. 

Buffy- I'm sorry you're under the weather again. I hope March can be more relaxing. Are you planning to try another cycle in March? 

AFM- One little heartbeat on the scan yesterday, so cautiously happy about that! There were two sacs but one was empty, unfortunately the empty one came up first so there were a few tense moments, but all ok in the end. The only concern is that the embryo measurements were small for its age (which is not a good sign) , so I am going to call Create today and ask what the "normal" range of measurements is. On the other hand the heartbeat was a good rate. 

Lots of love to everyone!


xxx


----------



## Sunshine42

Hi All - I just finishing typing a post and then lost it all when my internet crashed! lets try again...

Sorry for being absent for a while, still struggling with this virus, now my 5th week not at work, unfortunately I've had to take anti biotics and now steriods, which is not ideal but necessary. Looking forward to my 12 week scan on Mar 17th to confirm everything is still ok.  

Annabell - congrats on the heartbeat, isn't it wonderful to see something tangible on the scan.    i hope the little embie catches up in size soon, didn't you say previously that you are really petite, maybe its just that. Have you booked another scan?

Lulu - firstly I want to say you are a complete star for doing all this on your own, and secondly how interesting to have a friend as a potential donor!!!  But first, good luck for this 2ww, and fingers crossed this will be your month!  

Buffy - sorry to hear you've had a few stressful weeks, I think work certainly doesn't make this any easier on us. Our bodies are so complex and affected so easily by stress, lack of sleep etc etc. Hope you can now concentrate on YOURSELF!!!  When do you think you will cycle again?

Ambition - good luck with your first Create cycle, we are all behind you, keep us updated. x

Did I miss the birth news from cswg? or have we yet to hear?

Natasha - hope you and Alexander are doing well?

Love and hugs to all and anyone I've missed.

Sunshine xxx


----------



## Buffy68

Hello everyone

Sunshine - sorry to hear you're still struggling with the virus.  I hope you're getting the chance for some r&r.

Annabell - glad to hear you saw a strong heartbeat.  Maybe the embryo was undersized because you are not very big - these measurements they use are all averages.

Lulu - I've had a hysterosocopy.  It's very routine and nothing to worry about.  How do you know your potential doner is not interested in you in that way?  Maybe this is his way of getting "involved" with you...just a thought.

Hope everyone else is well.  Sue, haven't heard from you in a while, how's it going?

Best wishes
Buffy


----------



## suesunday

Ladies! 

Buffy you tempted me out of my silence! Hallo all! 

Buffy though - how hard do you work? Too hard, mate, too hard. You first, work second. I struggle with this, but seriously - come on! Can't you stamp your foot at work and tell them to back right off? 

Welcome to AllieAllie and mandamae. 

Sunshine - oh gosh, that's quite full on. But I'm totally sure it will be fine. Isn't your immune system supposed to pack up when you're up the duff? Wishing you much better very soon.  

Oh my god Lulu - that is hilarious! I don't know if I speak for anyone else, but jesus, this is better than tv (or even the Archers). As you say, win win - you get to tuck in to Mr Dish and save money on sperm. Genius. (And he won't hog the tv playing playstation games, like MrSunday does - it's all upside.) Good luck from me too. You don't need to tell Mr Dish if you do nail it this time...could just avail yourself of his services regardless? (coughs)

Annabell - great news! That must have been a relief - sounds tense alright. I'm sure the measurement stuff isn't to be taken too seriously. Have seen people on other boards talking about very different sized twins at the early stage because they implanted on different days. 

Ambition - very best of luck! And thanks for the info about shopping about. I also asked about going to a different blood test clinic but they told me no.    I prefer the doctor's lab, so would be interested to hear if it is indeed cheaper. (Don't even wash their hands or use gloves in the other place. Ick.) I saw that Dr Raj Raj works at the Zita West clinic - so I was thinking that if getting in contact via the NHS fails miserably, you could always approach him privately - I've known people to get transferred back to the NHS that way. Might work? 

AFM - Annabell you were right, it's a HSG. But I haven't managed to get a slot that suits, so I'll investigate doing privately. Am just at the end of my progesterone for the second half of this cycle. And unlike the ivf cycle, I am not bleeding at all even though it's day 28 today. But I keep testing negative. (I can always see a tiny blue line - but it's far too faint to be a positive of any sort.) Guys said that they would put me on the same sort of dose that Dr Nargund was suggesting for my next cycle - interesting...

Hope Natasha & CSWG are enjoying lovely new babies. 

Love to everyone else, Sue xx


----------



## annabell99

Sue- I thought any line counts as long as it is "coloured in" and appears within the time frame allowed by the test manufacturer - i.e. evaporation lines can occur but they are usually colourless ?

Don't want to get your hopes up but if the faint line continues to appear you could try a digital test which is less ambiguous - I think the Clearblue ones pick up over 25 units of HCG which is quite sensitive.

xx


----------



## NatashaM

Hi all,

Sorry I'm a bit too tired to reply to everyone's posts but I have read them all and sending lots of love to all of you.

Annabell - so glad to hear about the heartbeat. I can just imagine how you felt when they said the first sack was empty - heart in mouth doesn't even begin to cover it. 

Sunshine - sorry you have been so unwell. Five weeks is a long time. I hope it doesn't last much longer and good luck for the 12 week scan. It is such a milestone and when you first test positive you never think you'll ever get there, time passes so slowly.

Lulu - I hope things are going well with the bloke. It would be great to have a baby the natural way - and a lot cheaper!

Ambition - wishing you the best of luck.

Welcome to AllieAllie and Mandamae. 

We came home on Saturday. It's been great, but very tiring. I understand what people meant now. There were three grandparents here when we got home and Joe's dad was putting an extra sheet of glass behind all our front windows as he'd decided they were drafty so not a peaceful homecoming. I do worry a lot about the baby - I'm always checking he's breathing or if he's gettting enough milk or if he's getting a cold or if someone's going to drop him. It is quite exhausting worrying so much. My neighbour over the road is  the same age as me and had her first baby on new year's eve so it is good to have someone so close by who is doing the same thing. Joe's aunt who is a paediatrician is visiting tonight so I'm sure she will reassure me about my current fears. I thought I'd worry less when he was out. It's a different sort of worry is all.


----------



## suesunday

Annabell - did as you suggested with the digital, and it did say negative. Must be something magic about my pee - I can always make a thin blue line!  This is why I should never go near them!  

Natasha - ah! Bless you. That's it now, you're signed up to the worry for life. My mum still can't sleep if my nearly 30 year old brother stays out late when using the Hotel Parents. But think grandparents (esp paternal ones!) can sometimes make it worse. Tricky situation.  I think midwives et al also stoke it up a bit unnecessarily too. Glad to hear you've found a nearby new mum. You're going to be just fine! 

Happy weekend all, Sue


----------



## annabell99

Hi all!

Sue- you clearly have unique pee, I have NEVER heard of anybody always getting a faint line before! Has this happened in other months as well?  If AF doesn't show up you could try again with the digital in a couple of days and use first wee of the day just to check  

Natasha- It's great that you're all home! I'm sure the worry will get less with time  , you need a bit of time on your own without people fussing round to give you a chance to calm down and get used to it all. You will be fine! 

Sunshine- I hope you feel better soon, that's been a nasty run of illnesses  . Your scan is on St Patrick's day- got to be a good thing! 

Buffy- I hope you are managing to throw off the sore throat and sorting out a calmer working environment for the next few weeks. It might be easier to get up to full strength now the weather is improving- I always feel so much happier when the days start getting longer again!

I hope everyone is having a lovely weekend!

xx


----------



## cwsg

hi all,

am finially joining the mums team

Our little boy, Isaac Sorcha was born early hours of Wednesday morning Feb 24 weighing 7.41bs

He is absolutely adorable and words cannot descrbe how happy we both are.

The birting process didn't go at all ccording to my plans,
after him being two weeks overdue i decided to go for induction. I had three goes, or doses of different drugs over two days with insufficient affect, heavy contrations but just 1cm dilation, Then i fely ill and shivery, i was trasfered to the labour ward, they failed to break my waters as was told my temp was too high and needed a ceasrian then and there. I phoned my parner to drive in. He arrived as they were preping me. The operation went smoothly and we cryed when hearing the baby's cry, and on handed him.
I was exhausted by the time it got to this op and unwell so the recovery has been hard,

but he is so beautifull it's all worth it


cwsg xxx


----------



## Tosh

Congratulations to you both 

He is gorgeous  

I knew it was going to be a boy  what did I tell you ?? 

lots of love 

Tosh 
javascript:void(0);
xxx


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## lulumead

cwsg & mr cwsg,
Oh my Isaac is adorable.
So glad that he has arrived safe and sound. Rest up and I hope you feel back on form soon - sorry to hear your experience was a bit crazy but thankfully he's here   

Hi everyone else....going slightly   on the 2WW a week to go!

xx


----------



## annabell99

Congratulations cwsg!      

Wow Isaac looks lovely! I'm sorry it was a traumatic experience but you can put it behind you now. I hope you have a quick recovery from the Caesarian.

Lulu- Hang on in there  

xx


----------



## Mandamae

cwsg and partner    on your little boy isaac   i agree he's beautiful!

I hope you are feeling much better now 

It's stories like your's that affirm to me i have found the right clinic this time    

mandamae xx


----------



## Buffy68

cwsg -   congratulations on your lovely son.  I'm sorry to hear the birth did not go exactly according to plan and I am sure it must have been a bit traumatic but all's well that ends well    

Lulu - calm thoughts  calm thoughts  

Sue - like Annabell I have never heard of someone who could produce two lines, however faint, without being pregnant!!  At least you know you can trust the digital tests.  Has your AF arrived yet?

Natasha - I'm sorry to hear you can't stop worrying, although understandable it's only going to sap your strength and you really need your strength over the next few months!   I hope you have some opportunity to catch up on your sleep, as being very tired can make us more irrational and prone to worry about every little thing.   

Annabell - do you know when your next scan is?  Are you managing to stay calm and think lovely, positive thoughts?  

AFM: the cold is nearly over and I have managed to have a more restful week.  Still annoyed with myself for allowing the same thing to happen yet again whereby I overdo it completely, get stressed and come down with a cold.  Will I ever learn?  Sue, had to laugh at your comment as my boss is my husband!!!  Ironically, part of the reason for the stress was I have actually gone down to working 3 days a week in order cut down on stress, but in February I had enough work for 5 days so basically was trying to squeeze 5 days work into 3 days, hence the stress!!  There was also another project on which worried my sick for about a week, but luckily it all turned out OK.  Anyway, they're both over and things have got a lot calmer at work now.  
 and   to everyone.


----------



## LEECOWDEN

CWSG - Many congratulations on the birth of your beautiful little boy. I remember you getting your BFP seems like only yesterday.

BTW - as you may or may not be aware - I have set up a ******** group and am also running a blog for create. Basically trying to improve patient support - something that I feel is very important.

I was wondering whether any create ladies would like to do a meet at some point - let me know your feelings? Some people like to remain anonymous, but if you would like to have a meet then I am more than happy to organise one?!

Leex


----------



## Mandamae

I would Lee depending on where it would be and when of course as I'm in the midlands


----------



## LEECOWDEN

Well hopefully we could time it for when you are down for treatment - when do you start?

Leex


----------



## suesunday

Many many congratulations CSWG - and thanks for the photo! What a sweetie. Glad to hear alls well that ends well! 

Buffy - what?! Speechless. If my husband was the boss I wouldn't lift a finger! I think you can doubly stamp your feet now. But I can totally understand about reduced days just making it worse. I have toyed with the idea of going to 4 days, and maybe I will, but my fear is that it will just make my at work days longer. 

Lulu - wishing you all the luck in the world for the 2ww.     

Lee - I am a) too old for ******** and b) frightened of it! So that's why I'm not availing myself of your services - but thank you. Where's the blog? I didn't know about that. Sounds interesting. I would certainly be up for a Create ladies meet up. You're all so lovely! 

AFM (still enjoying this Lulu!), my AF did indeed arrive. Have even tried testing (with clearblue) mid cycle and still get the thin blue line - so someone stop me next time I even think about non digital!  

I gave up with trying to arrange a hsg with guys, and so I'm going to the Lister for it next Monday. (Ouch - more money, but it keeps March open for possible baby making.) And I'm going to try acupuncture - going to the Kite clinic, which it turns out is on Bond Street. Hurrah! Shopping or acupuncture will get me a baby!


----------



## LEECOWDEN

Sue sunday - too old for ********? never 

As for the blog it is at http://naturalandmildivf.blogspot.com/

and I am also creating my own blog of my ivf journey at http://myivfjourney-leec.blogspot.com/

I would really appreciate it if you would have a look at the blogs and maybe become a follower.

I am also in the process of setting up a forum especially for natural and mild ivf on behalf of create clinic

Leex

By the way if anyone is going to the patient open day on March 27th I'll be there!

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## Ambition

Hi everyone

Wow CSWG that's fantastic news. Things never go according to plan do they - but what matters is he's here and he's lovely! Hope you aren't too knackered. The first 6 weeks are the worst i hear! They'll soon be over!  

Buffy – hope you’ve had lots of acupuncture and massages and stuff to make you feel less stressed? Have you tried mind body medicine? It’s very good for turning off the stress. They teach you techniques for dealing with it and I’ve found them very useful. You can PM me if you want me to try to explain some of them! Thanks for the NHS doc recommendation. I don’t know if I mentioned it but I’m so lucky to have a doc that seems to really care. I will see what we says about blood tests. Fortunately, he has said the NHS will pay for the clexane – phew! That saves me £140!

I got the rest of the drugs from homecare and saved about £200 (I’m doing mild stimulation). Well worth it! If anyone wants the details, PM me and I’ll send them. There are posts about them on the cheap IVF drugs link as well. You ask them for a quote over the phone and when you’ve decided to go with them, they ask you to send your prescription by recorded delivery. Tip – I faxed mine and they seemed fine with that. They send the drugs out very quickly and you deal with the same person each time. They are very friendly and lovely to talk to.

Suesunday - your pee stories made me chuckle.   I know it must be so frustrating though because those digital ones are so expensive aren't they?! Thank you for the info on Dr Raj too. I've been to see my private doc now again and am hoping insurance covers it! Just had a blood test costing £500! ridiculous! It’s a chemical assay something or other. It tests to see how my immune system is behaving. If it comes up positive then I’m going to have intralipid infusion (£400) a time and you need it at least a couple of times. Once before egg transfer, and preferably twice when you’re pregnant. Can you believe I was actually at the doc laboratory on Monday and forgot to ask them about prices – urrgh just goes to show my mind gets in a real muddle when I think I might be on the brink of a new discovery about the reasons for my miscarriages. 

Lee – good idea for that forum. Will be very keen to join altho am feeling that with the number of drugs i'm going to be on, perhaps what i'm doing isn't all that natural or mild!.  Is the patient open day only for new patients?

Lulu- love hearing about your lovely friend who’s up for being a donor. The plot thickens…! Got my fingers crossed for you this cycle. 

Sunshine – good to hear from you and am looking forward to your first scan too! It must be so horrible being so ill. I really hope you get better soon. 

Annabell – I hope you’re doing ok and are finding a way not to worry too much. I know it’s impossible isn’t it? Ridiculous actually when people tell you not to worry – how an earth can you not?! I guess the only thing that has ever worked for me is distraction tactics – like going to work! Bizarre! Actually saying that, hypnotherapy worked for me – not CDs but proper going to see someone. I think if I manage to get pregnant this time, I’ll be finding a hypnotherapist near me (it’s all costing so much but I say hang the cost and work out how to pay for it once I’ve got a baby! Is that wrong?). My other hypno is in Barnes and too far away.  

best go and really sorry if i've missed someone - i should post more often and then i hopefully don't miss people out!
lots and lots of luck to everyone 
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## LEECOWDEN

Ambition - I think the patient open day is only for new patients but don't quote me on that?

As for mild / natural - Geeta will always go for the dose that suits you - she will never pump you full of unnecessary amounts of drugs, so the forum will be just as relevant to you - I had what can be termed mild ivf - however still had lots of drugs, but a half dose of the HCG shot, so as to prevent OHSS.

Leex


----------



## Jbre

Hi Lee, my husband and i are booked in for the open day on the 27th march too. Can anyone recommend any questions to ask/things to consider?

I've had a bad week this week again. Been crying a lot at the drop of a hat and generally feeling sorry for myself. Been quite full on though had 2 friends give birth in 2 weeks. My best mate is due on the date I'm at the open day and my sis in law next month. Got to laugh really! I'm sure I'll give myself a kick up the bum today haha!

My hubby is feeling a bit stressed that we'll be travelling from Scotland for our treatment but I said nothing can stop us in our goal for a baby. He's inclined to go for mild ivf because of the distance from the clinic/costs etc. I think I agree now. Any thoughts?


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## LEECOWDEN

Hi JBre, 

I had mild IVF at create. In terms of questions, not really sure, what sort of things do you want to find out.

For me, the main thing was the connection that I felt with Geeta - In my humble opinion, when you are going through something as emotionally draining as IVF, then you need to feel that you are comfortable and happy with the team that are treating you -I was!

I will be there on the open day - please feel free to have a chat with me - or alternatively if you want to have a chat before hand or after - I am more than happy to go for a coffee with you!

Leex


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## Mandamae

What a shame i wont get to meet you ladies on the 27th open day. I really wanted to go to that one but DH can't get the day off work. I'll be at the on in April 

Lee we're hoping to start tx in the summer (June or July)

mandamae xx


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## LEECOWDEN

That's a shame madamae - maybe I'll see you in April. Where abouts in the West Midlands are you from? My husband is from those parts - Worcester!

Leex


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## Mandamae

Hi Lee,
I'm in Coventry about 60 mins away from Worcester.

I hope i do meet you in April  

mandamae xx


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## LEECOWDEN

Do you know what date it is in april? Leex


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## Ambition

Thanks Lee - i didn't want anyone to think the mild stimulation isn't mild - it's just that because of my miscarriages I'm on a lot of other drugs too that aren't anything to do with Create. Just thouight I'd better say that to avoid confusion for anyone reading my post!
x


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## Mandamae

Lee, No they haven't set the date yet? I keep looking i wonder when they set it?

mandamae xx


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## LEECOWDEN

Not sure - maybe give them a quick email and they should be able to tell you

x


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## 2Flowergirl

Hi Ladies,

Sorry I haven't been on here for a while...life moving at 100mph at the moment in all areas!  I am currently co-ordinating our office move at work so timing of first cycle is not great but I'm going to take 2 weeks off in April.

I am waiting in today for my drugs to be delivered...... I start my long protocol mild IVF on Monday....it has come around so quickly.  Apparently I am having the lowest possible dose as I have Polycystic Ovaries so there is a risk of OHSS with too many drugs.....so its lucky we chose Create as I didn't know I had PO!

Good luck everyone & congratulations CWSG on your baby boy!!!  x


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## LEECOWDEN

Hi 2flowergirl

Good to hear that everything is getting started now.

I also have PCOS, and had to have lowest dose - this is one of the many reasons, Create is so good - as you are at a higher risk of developing OHSS if you received too high a dose.

Leex


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## LEECOWDEN

Hi everyone,

Please help me in my quest to gain some followers on my blogs -

one is for create and the other is my own personal blog - which I will be using to detail my IVF journey.

I hope that they will make interesting reading, and also keep you up to date with Create

http://myivfjourney-leec.blogspot.com
http://naturalandmildivf.blogspot.com/

Leex

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## suesunday

Hi 2Flowergirl - nice to have you back! Can I ask why you're having long protocol? I've dithered and dithered about whether to do this myself and I think I could probably still squeeze it in for my upcoming cycle, so I'd find it really useful to hear about your reasons, if possible. Best of luck!


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## 2Flowergirl

Hi Suesunday.  I thought I would be having a short protocal....but Geeta has advised I need to do the long one because when I had my scan with Professor Campbell it showed I have Polycystic Ovaries (not the syndrome though).  This means they need to shut down my ovaries before I start the stimms to reduce the risk of OHSS as with this condition I would be likely to produce far too many eggs.

I start injecting this evening so fingers x....!


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## suesunday

Thanks 2 Flowergirl. Good luck with those injections! 

Hallo everyone else. Lulu - what's going on? Updates from the 2ww? 

Annabell - how about you? I'm still so pleased for you! 

Buffy - how's things now? Have you successfully had a calmer week? What's your plan now? 

JBre - you've got to go with what you feel is best for you. I didn't even think about natural to be honest. I thought mild was a good way in but hopefully with a significant chance of success. 

AFM, I had my HSG today. Ouch! They were extremely nice at the Lister, though.  The doctor said 'at least you didn't scream so loud that the people outside could hear'. Very funny! I was not very brave - but in my defence they had to do the squirting a couple of times to try to open out my right tubes. Nice...

I am now utterly confused about whether it's okay to try this week or not - thanks to looking on the internet. I am taking tetracyclines (?) for the next 5 days -and that doesn't seem to be good for pregnancy. Although the Lister doc didn't seem concerned at all. But I don't want to take any risks to 'bone formation' - er, as found on the internet. Oh, so depressing - I only went to the expense of doing it privately so I could still try this month, and now I'm not sure whether I really should. Poo.  

Am going for treatment consultation tomorrow with aim of starting my next round at beginning of April probably. Comes around quick doesn't it? 

Lots of love to everyone I didn't mention


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## lulumead

hello all

oooh sue, I feel your pain, my HSG was really painful and I was very pleased when it was all over.  I'd be tempted to give it a go au naturel, I'm sure that any potential side effects are pretty rare and you're tubes are all flushed out and raring to go so why not  

going a little    on the 2WW, tested negative on sunday at 13 dpo, so am suspecting it will be negative but will do an official test tomorrow. No AF yet but have felt like its on its way for days and suspect that the pessaries are keeping it at bay, which is good as am booked for a hysteroscopy on wednesday which I can't have if bleeding so am hoping it stays off.  Potential donor has got cold feet too, not surprised, he hadn't really thought about future impact on any children he might have, so is now pretty sure he can't do it.  

Was going to have this month off of TTC as lovely NY man coming in two weeks time (perfect timing!) and I'd like to be able to drink and have some fun    but then I'm worried about taking a month off and then feeling fed-up that I missed a go when he has gone back to NYC.  But then equally weird to potentially be having it away with him and then popping to the clinic to have some strangers    whacked up me! (that's the medical phrase me and my friend choose to use  )  Of course there is no guarantee that he's going to want to be doing any fun stuff with me when he's here so not sure what to do...any advice, ladies??

Lost track a bit of where everyone is at...so hope you are all good.
Whose on the 2WW next?


xxx


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## suesunday

Ooh Lulu! So there won't necessarily be poking without wellies with Mr NY?   That is well tricky. The boy-snaring me says don't even talk about it when he's here, let alone go to the clinic. It's a lot for anyone to take on in reality - even if they know about it already - esp men, who are funny creatures. And then the baby-wanting bit of me says well, none of us are getting any extra months here, so go get it whacked up, sister. Tricky, tricky, tricky. The perfect answer would be having a month off but maybe a bit of, er herm, free donation just to keep that iron in the fire. Sorry - am of no use here!


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## lulumead

hello lovelies...unfortunately the double basting didn't work for me, so onwards and upwards.

Think I need to just get on with it again this month, if there is extra fun with Mr NY then all good but no guarantees on that so just need to get on with my plans.

Hope everyone else ok.....whose up next for the 2WW??

xx


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## Buffy68

Hello everyone

Lulu - sorry to hear the basting didn't work this time   - I'm sure it won't do any harm to have a cycle off and spend some time with NY man.  I understand the pressure to keep going but sometimes a break can do you good.  Have you spoken to him about trying naturally  

Sue - glad to hear you've got your HSG over with - ouch   - am I right to infer everything went fine?  Are you trying natural or mild in April?  BTW how are you finding the acupuncture?

Flowergirl - good luck with the injections    How are you feeling?

JBre - you certainly are dedicated travelling from Scotland!!  Are you going to stay nearby during the actual treatment?

Ambition - would love to hear more about mind body medicine and how they have helped you.  I do have acupuncture which is very helpful and recently started reflexology which is the most relaxing thing ever.

Leecowden - would certainly be up for meeting up with others on this board if we can manage it logistically.

Annabell - you have been quiet for over a week now.  I hope you are enjoying yourself relaxing and everything is OK.   

Best wishes to everyone
Buffy


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## annabell99

Hi all!

Lulu, I'm really sorry your doublebasting didn't work  this time  . Difficult decision about whether to have a month off - I can understand you feeling that you don't want to waste any time. 

Sue- Thank you! I totally feel for your over the HCG, I still remember it as the most painful thing that has ever happened to me. The worst of it was that it wasn't like an ordinary pain feeling, it was more like some strange futuristic torture where suddenly you can't bear to be in your own skin any more. The doctor beforehand said I might feel "slight discomfort"  .  I seem to remember some sort of evidence that it is easier to conceive straight afterward an HCG (Can't remember where I read that unfortunately  ) Don't know about the tetracyclines though, how long would they stay in your system for? My possibly wildly incorrect thinking is that the embie isn't even attached to you until 7 dpo at the earliest so it can't be affected by anything in your system until then? (Better check with a doctor though, I am only guessing !!!)

Lee- thanks for the blogs, they look great! I would love to come along to a Create meet-up, would be fantastic to see everybody! 

Hi Flowergirl, good to hear from you! Good luck with your injections. I had the lowest dose also, because I'm small and my sister has severe PCOS.

JBre- I think mild has a better chance of success than natural but obviously higher cost and (possibly) more discomfort. It's up to you what you feel comfortable with. Is there nowhere at all in Scotland which will do mild/natural IVF?

Ambition- Thanks for the advice on hypnotherapy, I think I will try that. Have you started your injecting yet?  

Buffy- How are you? I hope you are feeling well and managing to cut down on the work stress   Are you planning to try another cycle soon?

AFM- I have had a really bad throat/sinus infection for the last week, so been feeling very sorry for myself. The only OTC medication allowed is paracetamol and this does NOTHING to help with congestion, or swelling, or coughing, or sleeping, or any of the many other things I have been feeling sorry for myself about   .  The doc finally prescribed antibiotics yesterday but I haven't taken any yet as it does (touch wood) seem to be getting a bit better now so I will wait a couple of days and see if it clears naturally. Being ill has taken my mind for a while off worrying that I still have no symptoms, so maybe not entirely a bad thing  

Lots of love to everybody, i'm very sorry if I have missed anybody but i have got a bit behind on the thread while I've been ill

xxx


----------



## allieallie

Hi,
Sorry I've been off the board for a few weeks, it's been really busy at work, then I got a cold...

CSWG, congrats on your beautiful new baby! Your and Natasha's recent triumph are inspirational.

Lee, thanks for the blogs, they are great ideas! 

Sue, bless you for surviving the HSG, I remember mine was supremely painful, and they didnt warn me...

Lulu, you are to be admired for even thinking of double basting. My thoughts are with you for whatever next step you take.

Mangoeater, I'm so glad my story was of some help to you. It is really rubbish to feel alone, especially when the clinic supposed to be helping you is causing you so much stress, and putting brick walls in front of you. But you are NOT alone.

Natasha, Buffy, and others, thanks for supporting and commenting about all Create's confusing pricing policies. Buffy, you made a helpful point that Create and probably other clinics can very what they charge if your situation is a bit ambiguous. It's up to us to ask lots of questions. If only one of us speaks up, they'll think its just one hormonal woman who wants to get even. But any one of us could have had the same situation. So we should all feel free to ask, ask, and request a special look be given to our case, if there is any confusion.  I really hope Create lowers their abandoned cycle fee, and makes their pricing policies and refunds more understandable.

Ambition, thanks so much for your post about the HFEA. (Buffy, you asked about the HFEA's website and if it says anywhere that they charge an HFEA fee to a clinic only when egg/sperm are mixed). I just looked, and strangely, that info is no longer on their website (at least not apparent), and it really should be. How odd!

The reason I knew exactly what HFEA charge the fee for, is at a previous clinic, when I received an HFEA refund automatically after an abandoned cycle, I asked, and the clinic administrators confidently told me that they could not ethically keep my HFEA fee because egg and sperm had not mixed. More recently, a friend of mine was not given an HFEA refund after no egg was collected, the clinic gave her problems, and she emailed the HFEA and got a similar response to Ambition. When she forwarded this to the clinic, they gave a refund back. 

The lesson learned is: If you have a cancelled or abandoned cycle, if an egg is not collected, or if the egg/sperm are not mixed for any reason, you have every right to ASK FOR A REFUND of your HFEA fee. I know, its not a lot of money (£100 or so), but it all counts, and you deserve it! 

Natasha, I agree, we all just women who desparately want to get pregnant - and so we're all vulnerable. I know we may fear the stress of chasing up overlooked refunds or office mistakes will affect our fertility. But following up CAN actually feel empowering. And when clinic confusion gets to the point where it's not a simple overlooked refund, but major policy issues that seem 180 degrees opposite to what you've been told; or when you're being told the same confusing thing over and over, it is definitely in your interest to ask questions and get answers. And take NOTES. Because the next time it happens, it will be more stressful. Better to get things sorted as soon as possible, and give yourself a pat on the back for empowering yourself and other patients too!

So I'm still thinking of starting up w DHEA again, but I know that Create is not really in favour. But I'm doing everything else healthwise, and the reports seem positive so far... I dont suppose anyone else is currenly taking DHEA?


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## LEECOWDEN

Good evening all!

Lulu - I'm really sorry it didn't work this time - I think that was good advice to maybe have a little rest for a month and take the pressure off. They do say that being relaxed can help! Easier said than done in this situation.

Sue - I remember my HSG, very painful. Ouch....

Flowergirl - how arethe injections going?

And to everyone else -love and best wishes.

Thankyou to all those who checked out my blogs, if you would like to become followers it would be much appreciated. About to knuckle down now and start on that Create forum.
xxx


----------



## lulumead

thanks everyone for well wishes...I am pretty relaxed about it all, odds are low so wasn't really expecting it to work 1st time.  It's just strange doing this a singlie as I've never tried to get pregnant the fun way  
Think this month I will just get drunk and act like I'm not trying to get pregnant...maybe that will work   

Lee: will check out your blogs...keep meaning too!
xx


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## LEECOWDEN

Hi everyone -

Well the create forum is now up and running. It will link from the main create website soon - but for now check it out at

http://createhealth.creatingforum.com/forum.htm

I have never run a forum before, so am open to suggestions, criticism and hopefully a bit of praise 

Please use it - and also suggest new category areas.

Leex

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## lulumead

thanks Lee...just registering now  
xx


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## cwsg

lulumead - sorry it hasn't worked for you again. it is so tiring and expensive.

I hope that mr NY will save the day in the end.

Isaac is doing well  he has put on nearly a pound since birth. that's one once a day. all with just breast feeding. He now needs winding after feeding to avoid long painfull wind. he's wearing the washable nappies as i ran out of the disposable and thought maybe this would be a good time to switch, they are so bulky on him and make the clothes that fit him before too small, so may get biodegradable disposable for a few more weeks, well untill he's big enough for the washable ones. I'm going to take him out in the pram, so far have just aken him in carrier pouch thing.
Loving motherhood, but am tired with the night time feeding, last night 3 times between 10pm and 5 pm.

Cwsg


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## Sunshine42

Hello everyone,

So sorry to have been off the thread for a while again, I have really been suffering with this viral laryngitus and my energy levels are shot!

I must firstly say a huge congratulations to CSWG, your boy Issac is such a cutie, so glad to hear you are enjoying motherhood... 

And Lulumead - so sorry things didn't work out this time, what have you decided to do next? its such a personal thing. I saw a post where I think it was Ambition who wrote a whole pargraph re advice and then said I am useless what do I know - made me laugh.... what do any of us know...

Sue - sorry you're procedure was painful, I can only suppose that not knowing about the pain before hand meant you didn't worry...  what are your plans now? (sorry if I have missed any posts already explaining your plans).

Annabell - have your recovered yet from your throat infection? how are you doing otherwise? I hope you are not suffering with sickness?

AFM - I had the 12 week scan last week, infact we had 2, one at Create with the Prof and an NHS one. I had to rely on DH to ask questions as I have no voice still...  All was fine, thank goodness, I have been so ill that I was concerned for the baby, but seems baby fine just Mum whos a mess.... At both places we had the combined test for Downs where they combine the scan results with a blood test, there is such an emphasis on this due to my age - I was terrified. The results are 90% accurate, Create calculated a risk of 1 in 725 and NHS 1 in 1010, considering they start with 1 in 36 due to my age to say I was relieved is an understatement.... We have decided not to do any further testing and I am hoping now just to enjoy the rest of the pregnancy.

Lee - I would love to meet up with others on the thread, would be great to put faces to names...

Sending lots of love to all, this is such a journey we are all on.

Sunshine xxx


----------



## Buffy68

Hello everyone

We certainly seem to be going through a bout of sickness and I hope everyone is feeling better now.

Sunshine - I can imagine that your energy levels *would* be shot with viral laryngitis and pregnancy!  I hope you are able to take lots of r&r when you have every excuse to do so!!  I am glad to hear your scans went well.  I think once you're properly pregnant then the baby seems to take priority for all your resources, so if you're stretched it's you that goes short.  The Downs testing sounds very reassuring and I don't think I'd bother to have further, possibly invasive, testing either if I were you.

cwsg - glad to hear everything is going well with Isaac.  I hope it won't be too long before you don't have to wake up 3 times every night!

Lulu - hope you have a fun month, I am sure it will do you good  

Allie - I haven't taken DHEA.  All I know about it is from a book called "The Infertility Cure" which is written from the perspective of TCM.  It says it should be taken for short periods *only* if you suffer from kidney essence deficiency.  KED is common in women over 40.  The signs are things like lower back soreness, premature greying, vaginal dryness, dark circles under eyes, hot flushes, low libido and frequent urination.

Annabell - sorry to hear that you also have been unwell with a virus.  I hope you are seeing a marked improvement now and didn't need to take antibiotics.  The viruses around at the moment seem to really drag on, or maybe their after effects do.  The best thing you can do for your body is get plenty of rest.  

AFM - although the stress situation is much better now and I am catching up on my sleep I am still feeling the after effects of the throat viurs (mostly thick phlegm, yuck) so I have been taking it extra-easy over the last 3 days to give my body a really good chance to recover.  I can't beleive how long the effects of 3 weeks of stress lasts.  My last cycle was rubbish, only 20 days, ovulated on day 8 and a very light AF at the end.  It's really taught me (as if I didn't already know) what an effect overdoing it has on my body.


----------



## Ambition

hi everyone

Apologies from me too - I've not been wanting to chat much 
I am doing egg collection tomorrow - feeling v grumpy today and quite happy to blame the hormones. Also got a v abrupt text from my miscarriage doctor (nothing to do with Create!) - if i was a doctor I would never have written what he wrote to a patient! in fact I would never write what he wrote to anyone at all.
I had to get in touch with him to ask about drug doses. I'd had nothing in writing to say what day to start taking my drugs, and nothing to say what time of day either. I couldn't get hold of his PA. So I texted him (he'd given me his number to do that). I texted once on Friday to ask what day to take the drugs, and once today because he didn't tell me what time of day. And that's it. I won't write here what he said because i'm sure someone will tell me off. So now I've taken action and arranged a consultation with someone else. Also, I have a blood clotting gene mutation which he knew about in November but didn't tell me until last week - I don't think that's quite right at all. 
DH not sure about me changing docs at this stage but come on, surely a doc should be making sure I know what drugs I am taking when! And if he didn't want to reply to my text, why didn't he get his PA to ring me? 
So you can see I am grumpy. Maybe I have got a good reason after all!  

Sorry hi to everyone and sorry for lack of personals
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## annabell99

Hi all!

Allie- Don't know about DHEA, I did look into it at one point but I thought there were some potential negatives? I did (sporadically  ) take royal jelly in my last cycle, my mum keeps bees and says it is really good for you but I think my consumption may have been too sporadic to count.

Sunshine- So sorry to hear about the laryngitis! I lost my voice in the first week of my throat infection and I know it is SO annoying. Congratulations on your 12 week scan results- sounds fantastic!  I hope you will be able to relax, get better and enjoy yourself now! 

Buffy- sorry to hear you are ill too.  TMI alert but is the phlegm colored (yellow/green?) as this could indicate secondary bacterial infection? I struggled for ages with my illness (it spread from throat to sinuses to ears) and tried every natural remedy in the book before finally taking antibiotics, and while it still hasn't gone completely the antibiotics have cleared all the yellow goo in a matter of days. 

Ambition- Good luck for the egg collection    Sorry you are having a hard time with your doctor, I think you are right to change if he has treated you so discourteously  . It should be his priority to ensure that you are fully informed about your medications! 

AFM - We have had a horrible time over the weekend as I started bright red bleeding   on Friday night and it has been going on and off since then. I went to the early pregnancy unit for an emergency scan and they can see a large area of bleeding next to the baby (but outside its sac). They think this should "resolve itself" without upsetting the baby, but I have another scan to check in two weeks. Also worryingly the baby is a great size for its dates but the sac is very small so it hasn't much room. I have read that this can be a bad sign, but also that it can resolve itself. So have to keep praying.

Lots of love to all

xxxx


----------



## Sunshine42

Ambition - you have every right to be grumpy.... doesn't sounds as though your consultant is putting you first! you have to go with your gut feeling about these things and if changing doc is what you feel is right then do it.  Wishing you the best of luck for tomorrow's egg collection  

Annabell - everything crossed for you my love. If the experts think the bleeding and sac should sort themselves out then thats really great news.  Make sure you are resting......  

Buffy - From reading your posts I know that you have researched long and hard in your quest. I just wanted to say that about a year ago I started to have short cycles, ovulate early and very lite AF. I found a mixture of acupuncture and chinese herbs prescribed by the acupuncturist got my cycle back on track, a perfect 28 days, ovulation mid cycle and longer AF. I know that Create are not keen on chinese herbs but I believe that the herbs from last summer to Xmas were the final piece in the puzzle for me. May help you too.  

Sunshine xx


----------



## Ambition

Annabell I'm so sorry to hear you're having a rough time of it. If it's any help, I had a similar thing and at the time, the nurse said she sees it all the time. She said that's one thing about early scans, they're good but they can also cause needless worry for the mother because bleeding early on is so common. Got everything crossed for you    Thanks for the luck too!

Sunshine thank you - it's so good to get other people's opinions on here - i wasn't sure if i was being a right old grump face and not seeing things clearly - maybe I'm not but it's still nice to get some support  

Hi Buffy - sorry i haven't sent you any info on Mind Body medicine yet. I will do that. I hope you have found lots of ways to destress. One thing others might want to know too about is heart breathing. Deep breaths that help regulate your system , particularly lowering cortisol. Breathe in for 3 seconds, hold for 1, breathe out for 4 seconds and hold for 2. repeat for 10 minutes every day. It's amazing the effect it can have. I was wired up to a machine while I did it and i could see the difference in my heartrate and something else (not sure what I was looking at but it changed dramatically!). I know I sound a bit vague but it really does make a difference. 
Another good thing is noticing how you react to things and trying to not let your brain react in the same way. Your brain learns responses very effectively and 'turns on' reactions to things. So if someone asks you 'have you got children?' you may find this a very painful question, you may always feel unhappy, emotional, angry etc. You have already felt those emotions before. Not to belittle them in any way, but you don't need to feel them every time someone asks you that question. Your brain has learnt the response and so takes over.  What you can do to help you feel better about being confronted with sad thoughts, is to do something simple like look up. When we are sad, we tend to look down and away. Look up to change your brain's response to the question and trick it out of reacting subconsiously - it made sense to me and i have practised it and it really does work. I hope I've explained it in a decent way!

lots of love to everyone


----------



## Buffy68

Hello all

Ambition - I'll   for a wonderful egg collection tomorrow for you!  Your miscarriage doctor sounds dreadful, I would definitely change him.  He seems to be making your stress levels worse instead of making life easier for you!!  Remember, if you're feeling grumpy you can always come and talk to us, we understand and we've all had our upsets.  Thanks for the breathing exercise, I'm going to try it out.  I know taking a deep breath calms me down but I've not tried an actual regular breathing exercise.  I can't remember if I said I am doing yoga now once a week, which is weirdly both relaxing and energising.

Annabell -    You have been through the wars these last weeks.  I'll   all is well.  I have heard that bleeding in early in pregnancy is very common.  Maybe your uterus was clearing out the sac that didn't work out or something??  Last time you had a scan you said the embryo was undersized and this could be a bad sign, but now you say it is a good size so you can see that did resolve itself, hopefully the same will happen re the size of the sac.  Gosh, it's all so shrouded in mystery what goes on in the uterus, maybe we were better off before we had early pregnancy scans.  

Sunshine - thanks for the info re Chinese herbs.  I do actually have some (I have regular acupuncture) but haven't been able to take any herbs since the virus began about 3-4 weeks ago.  This was annoying because I had taken them since early January and had a good cycle that month!  I am back on ginseng now though and hope to be back on the herbs by the end of the week.

Susie & Clare - haven't heard from you two in ages, hope everything is progressing well.


----------



## SusieB20

Hi all

Sorry I haven’t posted in ages (I hadn’t realised just how long it was!). Relieved to say that the bleeding has finally settled down (was bleeding and spotting for over 6 weeks) and my obstetrician has found a small polyp on my cervix which might explain why I have continued to spot for so long. I will be 20 weeks on Thursday, so nearly at the half-way mark.

Ambition – best of luck for the egg collection tomorrow. So sorry to hear you’ve had so much hassle with your immunes guy. Who is it that you’re seeing (maybe you could PM me). I really hope it’s not the one I see and if it isn’t I can give you his details.

Annabell – I know just how incredibly scary the bleeding is but so many people have told me that it’s more common than we think and I have two friends who had lots of bleeding in pregnancies and went on to have healthy babies. Just rest as much as you can (you’re signed off work right?) and also keep up the protein levels as that helps replenish your body. The only other advice I was given was to stay on progesterone (I’m still on it now!) – acupuncture can also help. Just keep thinking positive, especially about the sac size –  fingers crossed it will just resolve on its own. And try not to google too much, you’ll always be able to find a site that confirms your worst fears.

Sunshine – glad to hear the 12 week scan went well - the Downs risk they gave you was really low, I was advised only to have further tests if it came to 1 in 250 so you’re way outside that. I hope you can relax into your second trimester now.

Lulu – sorry to hear the IUI didn’t work Hope you have a chance to relax and have fun with Mr NY

Buffy - hope you're fully recovered soon

Just about to have dinner so had better go, hello to everyone else I didn’t mention

Lots of love xxx


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## SusieB20

I totally forgot to say - CWSG, congratulations on the birth of baby Isaac - he's absolutely gorgeous!! xx


----------



## LEECOWDEN

Hello everyone - Hope you are all well!

Just to let you know, or anyone who would like more information about Create know that they have announced April and May Open days.

Create Clinic are committed to raising public awareness about fertility and assisted conception, and conduct regular patient open days.

The next patient open days are on:

Saturday 27th March 12-2pm and 2-4pm
Saturday 17th April 12-2pm and 2-4pm
Saturday 15th May 12-2pm and 2-4pm

If you would like to attend one of the open days, or find out a bit more information about them, please call or email the clinic to book your place. Numbers are limited to give you the best possible attention.

**

If anyone is coming tomorrow to the open day - please arrive on time - so that you don't miss the start of the talk, oh and if you are coming, I will see you there, please say hello to me  

Leex


----------



## suesunday

Hallo Lovely Ladies! It's like it's turned into a Ear Nose and Throat support board!   I feel quite left out.  

Annabell - I know how terrifying bleeding is, so really hope it stops asap. And what great news that Susie's has settled down. How great for you Susie - and I hope really comforting for Annabell. Is the brilliant thing about this board - and particularly lovely that all the pregnant ladies stick around. I do really love that - it's very very cheery. 

Buffy - what's your plan of action now? Yeah - the HSG did go fine in the end - needed a couple of extra pushes to get the right tube to open, but it did. He said it might have had a small blockage or it might just have been in spasm. 

Can I ask all of you who had nasty HSGs (and that seems to be all of you who had them!) - did you have cramping a week or two later? I still had cramping 10 days afterwards - and I'm still a bit sore. Went to GP who thought I was unlikely to have infection, although did swabs. She said it was possible to continue feeling sore for some time if the dye had inflamed the uterus. Does this sound familar to others? Searching on this board, everyone appears to have only been sore a few days after. Even though I took 5 days of antibiotics, I'm still worried about having an infection. You know the score - terrified of threatening my fertility in any way. Am really tired, so worrying more than usual about everything... Also, if my womb is still irritated from the dye, I don't think it'll be a good idea to start my next cycle next week - probably not ideal conditions for a little one to snuggle into! Views very gratefully received! 

Ambition - oh my god. What a ------- knob that doctor sounds. Unbelievable. You've got every right to be livid - you're paying for a service which is enormously important and about something which requires sensitive and timely responses. You should expect to be treated with respect - and to be told things like the existence of a gene mutation immediately. But good for you for changing doctor. I wouldn't slightly worry about changing doctors mid-flow. A good consultant will pick your history up straight away - and maybe to a better level than the guy who isn't very engaged with your treatment. 

Sunshine - that sounds fantastic news on the scan! Well done! When I was pregnant after a few weeks I just desperately wanted to know that the baby was alright (sadly he/she mustn't have been). Those stats sound extremely good - as you say, starting from 1/36 and getting down to 1/725 or 1/1000 suggests the indicators must be overwhelmingly good! Hope you are enjoying it now. 

2Flowergirl - how's it going? 

Lulu - where's our gossip update?! Us boring marrieds are relying on you for missives from the Great World Outside. (NB One of my mum's regular quizzing of people in cafes elicited a great story about a woman who had had several IVF cycles, in her 40s, given up, got drunk one night with partner - and now sitting in Islington cafe with cute baby. So recommends several bottles of wine as fertility treatment to her friends. So the booze plan may well work!) 

Now, I can't remember who recommended asking for a private prescription, but thanks - I took your advice, and knocked over £200 off a £800 bill! Fantastic! 

Lee - hope you enjoy the open days! I must say, me and the husband loved looking at all the people and trying to work out their ages and circumstances. I popped in to the ARGC with a friend of mine last week - and I loved that as well. A lot of the babies on their photo board were pretty ugly. I wonder if I should underline at my next treatment cycle that I need a pretty one? Which doesn't cry? And sleeps loads?     

Lots of love to everyone else xx


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## lulumead

just popping on quickly as Mr NY arrives in the morning so frantically cleaning the house, and food shopping so i show that I am domestic goddess as well as a party girl  

Booze chilling in the fridge.

so get those fingers crossed please....if nothing else I like a snog or two  

Will post properly and catch up on personals, but hope everyone is doing well.
xxxxx


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## Mandamae

Good Luck Luuluu I hope you get       

Dh and I are going to open day on April 17th 12-2 session anyone else?

mandamae xx


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## annabell99

Hi all!

Lovely spring weather we are having today 

Lulu- I hope all is going well with Mr NY! Looking forward to the update 

Sue-I think my HCG was only sore at the time, but it was many years ago so not 100% certain. I really know how you feel - I had bad ovary cramps for a couple of weeks after my EC in Dec and I was petrified that it was an infection. It wasn't and it went away in the end after the next AF- maybe yours will be similar? I went to the doc and even to A&E (overreacting I know but I read horror stories on google and got panicky  ) but they seemed to take the approach that I would really know about it if I had an infection - i.e. temperature, lots of pain etc. I know it would be a big disappointment to have to delay your cycle- maybe you could wait and see how you are when AF comes along? If the first scan is day 5 then that gives you a bit of time to decide. Also, won't the irritated womb lining be shed with AF?  I hope you feel better soon. [UPDATED -sorry Sue just realised this morning that you are doing Mild IVF and so you will need to decide on day 2 of AF whether to start the injections (rather than day 5 scan for Natural IVF)- doesn't give as much time to make your mind up about the cycle  ]

Susie- Thank you for sharing information about your bleeding, it is really reassuring to know that you are ok and you have been bleeding for so long. I hope it has finally stopped for you now!  Mine is due to a "subchorionic hematoma" (which seems to basically mean bleeding patch of lining!), the nurses say it isn't harmful unless it gets huge, but it is awful to keep seeing blood. Did you stop taking the aspirin (or had you already stopped taking it when the bleeding started?)? You are right that I shoudl definitely stay off Google  , it does me no good!

Ambition- how are you ? I hope the EC went well and you are now in the 2ww    

Sunshine- I hope all is well and you are relaxing and enjoying yourself after the 12 week scan! I have booked in for one at Create as well as the NHS one too as DH really liked the Prof and it can't hurt to get two opinions. Also, did you have to ask specifically for the combined tests at Create - I think I just asked for the Downs scan so I'm worried I might not get the blood tests - are they done at the same time? Do you get the results on the same day? Sorry, lots of questions!

Buffy- I hope you are well and relaxed! When are you thinking of doing your next cycle?

Thank you all so much for your kind messages and wishes over the last week, it really helps. I went for another scan yesterday and while I am still bleeding and the sac is still small (but now off the bottom of the measurement chart ) the great news is that the baby is still there and growing well. I have a follow-up scan on the 6th, hopefully the bleeding will have stopped by then.

A quick question for the "immunes" girls - I stopped taking the baby aspirin when the bleeding started because of it thinning the blood - but I've seen since that there is a school of thought that subchorionic hematoma (ie blood clot in the lining!) is caused by an immune response. So maybe I should go back on the aspirins? On the other hand I find it hard to believe my immune system is working overtime against the baby when it has totally failed to get rid of my throat and sinus infections! Does anyone have any thoughts?

Sorry I'm going to have to run off now as DH has just got home - Lots of love to all and apologies to people I have missed with the personal messages

xxxx


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## SusieB20

Annabell - glad to hear the scan went well and the baby is still growing okay. I had a hematoma too and also read that it can be caused by an immune response but then there seems to be lots of other women who have the same problem but no immune issues so I don't know. My consultant told me to definitely stay off aspirin as although it doesn't cause bleeding it can make bleeding a lot worse so you were right to come off it (he said that the aspirin would cause more problems than the blood thinning drug that I was injecting every day). Hope you're resting as much as possible and keeping up your fluid intake (if you get dehydrated it makes your uterus contract which can irritate the hematoma). I ended up borderline anaemic from my bleeding episode so am now on iron supplements (it could also be the fact that this is a twin pregnancy as well though) but that's something to keep an eye on as they don't usually test until 28 weeks. Hope that helps but let me know if you have any other queries.
xxxx


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## lulumead

hello all

annabell: good to hear that scan showed all is well.  I'm interested too to hear about immunes and create as Geeta seems so against it as a theory but I'm wondering if I should get it checked out....is the only thing that I haven't checked.

Sue: hope things have calmed down post HSG...they are very painful...glad I don't have to have one of them done again in a hurry.

ambition: are you on the 2WW, if so, sending lots of positive vibes.

susie, sunshine, buffy, lee and mandamae...and anyone else I have missed...hello!!!

AFM: well things started very well with mr NY...collected him from the airport on sunday lots of cuddles and kisses. Got home, loads of snogging...then of course some full on action, he instigated - naughtily without taking any precautions! then no action since then!!!! I really don't understand.  He is being very affectionate, sleeping in my bed, cuddling me all night but no snogs although kisses. He has also been working a lot so was up till 5.30am last night...and will probably be working all night tonight so no chance of anything happening. Its a form of torture lying next to him and wanting more!!!! Not sure what to do. He leaves on Friday so i feel like time is slipping away. It's really hard as I love him being here and its great fun but equally I already feel sad that he will go back to NYC and that will be that until he comes back in September and I'm back to the old fertility treatment with a strange mans sperm.  Sorry feeling a bit low when I should be feeling upbeat, and I have to be happy in front of him....ho hum.... will stop moaning now.
xxxx


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## cwsg

lulumead - did he say that he wasn't into making a baby with you, did i miss that bit.  

cwsg


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## lulumead

we've never discussed that....he knows what I am doing and seems unconcerned by having au naturel sex so...bad of me I know but I have been so sensible for so long, I just don't care now.

Anyway need to try and seduce him again before he leaves.
x


----------



## Buffy68

Hello everyone

Lulu - maybe NY guy is conflicted about having to leave and go back home.  Is it worth talking to him about how you are both feeling?

Annabell -glad to hear your recent scan was reassuring!  I hope the bleeding stops soon and that you are able to relax    Are you still suffering with your throat and sinuses?  My virus took about 3-4 weeks to completely clear up and I have heard of lots of other people for whom a cold has dragged on.    Giving up dairy and excess sugar seems to help me.

Sue - are you feeling more comfortable yet?  Have you decided what to do about your next cycle?

Susie - glad to hear your bleeding cleared up and that it was only a polyp.  I had a lot of bleeding from a polyp in my uterus and when I had it removed all the non-menstrual bleeding stopped.  Congratulations on approaching the half-way mark, it must be seeming real by now!!!!  Are you feeling OK in yourself?

AFM - I am definitely improving.  So glad the virus seems to have gone now.  My digestive system has been slightly "off" which the lady who does my acupuncture says is heat in my stomach and gut which she is now clearing.  I think this is the aftermath of the virus and also, she says, of worrying about my cycles (naughty)  .  I am still waiting to ovulate on this cycle, it is day 15 now.  I am starting to go back on my herbs as well which I think make a big difference; I had to stop taking them at the beginning of March.  Work is a lot less stressfull too.

Love and positive thoughts to everyone


----------



## Ambition

Hi everyone

A sneaky post from me. just wanted to say thank you so much for all your messages. Am on the TWW now and trying not to think about it. huge twinges last night - possible implantation? It's what i had on other pregnancies so i'm thinking some twinges for me is better than none at all (in my mind I figure that no twinges means nothing is happening). Only put one back as not risking two. Three other embies didn't make it to blastocyst - well, one did but not good enough to bother freezing.
I'll be back after Easter with personals and test results  
Good luck to everyone and apologies for no personals but big   to all
x


----------



## suesunday

Good luck Ambition. Am sure you'll nail it!     

Annabell - thank you, you are a sweetheart! Has settled right down. I am therefore all raring to go again! Just waiting for AF to start properly which I'm expecting on Friday. And what you say about losing the irritation with AF sounds right anyway. 

Lulu! Sounds like it's going really well. But I can see how it's sad too. The bding is difficult if he's working so late, but I'm sure you'll have some more seduction success before he goes! Tuck in! And then plan something super lovely for yourself on Saturday to take the edge off the sadness.    

Buffy - I'm very glad you're over the virus, and that work is better. Hope you've been laying down the law with the boss!! Going to wait until you're firmly on an even keel before trying another cycle?


----------



## NatashaM

Hi ladies,

Good to read all your news.

Annabell + Susie - I had a subchorionic heamatoma too, with two episodes of very heavy bleeding. Then I wnt on to have the other problems that you know about - high BP and inefficient placenta causing IUGR. Have read that placenta problems can be caused by an immune response - it doesn't implant properly. 

Ambition - good luck with the two week wait.

Lulu - Sory he is blowing hot and cold. Could you talk about it? Sometimes better to just know where you stand (don't have to mention TTC but why isn't he jumping your bones more while the oppotunity is there?).

I'm fine. Alexander is nearly 2 weeks past his EDD and 7 weeks past his actual birthdate. He is growing well - 7lb 2oz now on brastmilk alone.  I asked for a referral to a gynae to see exactly how bicornuate my uterus is. I wouldn't be prepared to even attempt another pregancy if the malformation is very severe.

How is Clare doing?

Love to all
N x


----------



## lulumead

hello lovely ladies

Ambition: good luck for 2WW, sending you positive vibes

Natasha: Alexander sounds like he is doing really well...well done on feeding him up  

Suesunday: hope AF arrived on time and you are raring to go for next cycle.

Buffy: good to hear you are feeling a bit better

Annabell & Susie: hope all has calmed down bleeding wise  

AFM - well....all been a bit of a mental week, Mr NY worked every night until about 7 in the morning, often with our mutual friend whose the writer of the show we are all working on together, so basically we had no time alone.  Then on Thursday night/friday morning when he had finally finished work and come to bed we had a big conversation started because I said I felt sad about him leaving, and then cried. Cool - not!  This freaked him out! We talked about why I felt so sad, he couldn't really get it as he thought he'd been clear that nothing could develop from this...which I understand but its still hard....anyway, I then tackled the sex issue and basically he said he felt under pressure to have sex and that was not a turn on for him!!!! I then pointed out that for me it seemed like he arrived, massive passion, then suddenly nothing...and as I far as I knew I hadn't changed the way I was behaving so assumed he wasn't interested, and that in my experience men would be well up for it when they were only in town for 5 days and it was there on offer. His big issue is that he needs to feel that I wanted to spend time with him...not just have sex...which I totally do.  So obviously big miscommunication occurred.  I have to say I am still rather confused by it all, especially as at the airport we left each other by snogging passionately for about ten minutes.  I have to say that I think that I can now officially say that I do not understand men AT ALL!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, start treatment in about 2 weeks time, unless of course the sunday action (on day 11!!!) works some kind of miracle, but I'm not holding out much hope.

Have good easter weekends.
xxxx


----------



## Sunshine42

Hello Ladies,

Just a quick note for Annabell - I asked Create about the blood test for the combined Down's test, they told me they would take blood on the day of the week 12 scan, which is what they did, the result came the next day and Prof C recalculated the risk and told me over the phone. For the NHS I was asked at my booking appointment if I wanted blood taken for the combined test to which I replied yes, this was at around 10 1/2 weeks. Hope that helps.

AFM - I went back to work last week for 2 days!!  after 8 weeks off sick....... Oops.  The commute was hell in the morning, and all the talking meant my voice disappeared again, but whilst sitting at my desk I felt ok. Finally feel I am on the way to recovery, lost half a stone so no-one notices the preg bump.

Love to all and personals next week - meant to be clearing up the last 8 weeks mess I've made around the house! Happy Easter also, hope you all indulged in some chocolate - unfortunately I've gone off it.......

Sunshine xxx


----------



## annabell99

Hi all! 

Susie- thanks for letting me know about aspirin, I wasn't sure if I had done the right thing so it is really reassuring to know! I hope your bleeding has not resumed and that all is well!

Lulu- sorry to hear your time with mr NY was quite traumatic. He does sound sweet though!  I hope you are ok and looking after yourself. I think it is quite common when couples are trying to conceive for the man to feel put off by the pressure, maybe there was some element of that?

Buffy- so good to heat that you are feeling better! I still haven't managed to quite get rid of my virus but it is more manageable now. I have heard of a lot of people finding it very hard to recover from bugs this winter, maybe there are some very bad ones going round!

Ambition- I have everything crossed for you! I hope all is going well. I definitely had one implantation twinge, so I hope it's a good sign for you!

Sue- good to hear the pain has stopped! I hope you have managed to start your cycle now & all is going well?

Natasha- thanks for letting me know you had a hematoma as well, it's great to know there can be a happy ending! I read that they were meant to affect less than 2% of pregnancies - surely must be more common with ivf given you, me and Susie have one! Lovely to hear that alexander is doing so well! Did your bicornate uterus contribute to the IUGR?

Sunshine- thanks for the info about the Down's tests! I hope you are still getting on well back at work- must be strange after so long an absence! 

AFM, the scan yesterday showed the baby growing (hurrah!) but the hematoma growing also. So overall no change. I also had to have an injection to stop my rhesus negative blood attacking the baby - this was a bit of a shock as I didn't know my blood type & I'd never heard of this complication before! Next scan is the nuchal scan with the Prof next Mon so hopefully the hematoma will be decreasing by then. Natasha and Susie- did you try to keep still as much as possible? There seems to be lots of conflicting advice. I am trying to stay still but it gets so boring!

Lots of love to all 

xx


----------



## SusieB20

Hi all

Just a quick post from me as I'm away in Scotland with DH for his 40th birthday and internet connection isn't great. Just wanted to come back to you though Annabell - I did have a tendency to wrap myself in cotton wool when I had the hematoma and had as much rest as possible (DVD box sets saved me from boredom!) but that didn't stop the second bleed happening. However, it did make me feel like I was doing as much as I could to help my body recover. My acupuncturist at Zita West said that when there is fresh bleeding it's best to be resting as much as possible and then take it easy if spotting old blood or until the hematoma has gone. I've seen some posts where people went on complete bed rest but then you run the risk of a DVT - it's not easy is it?! My hospital was really blase about it so it seems far more common than we're led to believe. Fingers crossed yours starts shrinking soon.

I hadn't heard of the rhesus negative issue until my midwife took my bloods (I'm Rh Pos) but it seems fairly standard procedure.

Sorry no other personals but will write more when I'm back next week (have my anomaly scan on Monday..bit apprehensive)

Love to all xxxx


----------



## Mandamae

Hello ladies, sorry no time for personals as i am nursing an intensive care kitten.
my cat minnie had 5 kittens on tuesday 1 died    8 hours later and another was going the same way with laboured breathing. I put him back with mum to die as i felt i'd done everything I could. He hadn't had any milk and he would gasp for air if i tried to feed him kitten formula   . but to mine a dh amazement he was still alive yesterday morning    so i took mum and all babies to the vet, the vet was lovely and gave 'stevie' (cause he bob's his head form side to side lol) an antibiotic injection and said although he'd had it i shouldn't be surprised if he only lived till 2 pm yesterday but to keep feeding him drop by drop I understood and drove home with them crying  . Well I have faith in GOD so  i prayed and stevie is still with us now but only taking 0.5 ml every 2 hours (should be 15-20ml in 24 hrs) his breathing is fine once he has recovered from feeding (about 2 hrs recovery). ATM I'm just waiting for him to recover so i can feed him again.

One of the other kittens was born with twisted hind legs from over cramping in the womb. I am trying physio on him as i read on a website and saw pics of a kitten the same as mine born the same and after 8 days of physio and stretches the legs were back to normal.

I guess i'm asking for your     and     for my cat's kittens
This is a site all about babies after all.
You see my animals are my babies

I am really grateful for those that do and i will update you- if you like?

Thank you sooooo much, mandamae xx


----------



## suesunday

Mandamae - oh, that sounds tough. Any dying animal is so sad (I'm thinking of my our last cat - I was totally bereft). It's heartbreaking to see them go. But I really hope your Stevie makes it. Poor mummy cat too.

Ambition - how's it going?  So you had quite a few fertilised eggs I guess if you made it to blastocyst stage? I'm with you on the twins thing, but am a bit nervous about just having one put back if I only get to day 3.

Natasha - good news that the little 'un is not so little anymore!

Oh Lulu! Blimey. I feel a bit emotionally at sea myself just reading it. Gosh. He's clearly into you - but what's this about nothing developing from it though? So confusing! I thought _we _ were supposed to be capricious.

Susie - I'm sure your scan will be great but I can see how it would make a person nervous.  Hope Scotland is getting a bit of the sunshine.

And Sunshine - it is officially your weather at the moment! Well done. Thanks from everyone! 

Annabell - good luck for your scan too! Good news the baby is growing.

And AFM, I'm egg collecting on Monday, and seem to have a much better crop than last time - bigger and more follies - something like 13 or 14 I think. Which is good news. Am doing acupuncture at the moment too. But I got another of those 'we're pregnant' emails from friends today - why do they still hurt when I'm overjoyed when one of you gets up the duff? Perhaps because I resent the implied ease with which they did it, I don't know. My own baby would have been coming up to its first birthday if I hadn't miscarried, and only one of my friends really acknowledges it - and he has been through IVF with his partner. I guess doing all this and losing a baby (or babies in some of your cases) makes you a bit more honest about the ups and downs of life - which is a good thing I think. Makes for stronger friendships and so on but it relies on people being brave enough to do it. Just makes me sad that I have these sort of half friendships, where only the good stuff is of any interest. Sorry, grump attack.

Love to all, Sue


----------



## LEECOWDEN

Hi everyone,

Just dropping in to wish everyone well and let you know that I am adding a Question and Answer section to the create forum:

http://createhealth.creatingforum.com/forum.htm

I spoke to Create and they are keen for there to be a section of the forum where if anyone has a question whether is be medical or general - e.g. fees or a general query where the answer could benefit others - then they could ask it through the forum. I would be able to get an answer for you and post back. Obviously it wouldn't be for urgent things -but I felt it would be useful in light of questions regarding HFEA fee refund policy and down's syndrome blood testing.

Often we are all wondering the same things and trying to find the answers.

Let's try and get the create forum up and running xxx

Praying for the babies madamae xx

Leex

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## lulumead

hello lovelies,

Sounds like a good idea Lee....please keep reminding us about the forum, I keep forgetting about it  

Mandamae: hope your fluffy babies are getting better and its not been too tough over the last couple of days   

Sue: great news about the follies, I predict a nice dozen eggs for Monday's harvest    Hopefully there will be a new Create BFP on here soon    Also nice to hear your thoughts about Mr NY...I have to say I am very confused but not much I can do about it, it is what it is. grrrr.....so frustrating...

Hope everyone else is doing well, any updates on scans or treatment??  I should be starting again next week, just waiting for AF to arrive, don't think I'm going to have my miracle natural one-shag pregnant situation    been spotting for a few days and not due til next wednesday....plus have had tonsilitis and now mouth ulcers. Nice.

Enjoy the sunshine...so nice to feel like its finally spring.
xxx


----------



## NatashaM

Hi All,

Mandamae - I am so sorry to hear about the kittens, especially the one you lost. It sounds like you are making an amazing effort to save the others, well done you. Poor little mites, and my heart breaks for Stevie. I do pray he pulls through. I love cats. 

Suesunday - hooray for your follicles! Sounds very good indeed. Best of luck for the rest of the process - keep us updated.

Annabell - Glad baby is growing but a bit worrying about the blood clot. Do you know what the heamatoma is measuring and whether or not it's under the placenta? I rested a lot when I had the bleeding, luckily I had already finished my job and I had a couple of months before my course started. Sadly they were spent mainly having one constant panic attack and bleeding on and off.

I do think my birconuate unterus contributed to the problems, as it would have been harder for the placenta to implant properly and that's what causes the high BP and IUGR. The only way of diagnosing the misshapen womb is by 3D ultrasound when you're not pregnant I was told by a gynae I met the other day (not an official appt or anything - just socially) and I was like "Oh! but I did have one, with prof Campbell before I started my IVF" and she looked a bit embarassed cos obv he should have spotted it. I can't complain because I have my baby but there are a few things about Create that don't make me feel enirely happy (inc. all this current pricing confusion - Lee it would be very helpful if you could get clarification on that for us).

Susie - hope your husband had a good birthday and the two of you had a good time in Scotland.

Lulu - glad you had a conversation, but men can be so dim. Why didn't he just say how he was feeling? Good luck with the treatment (and fingers crossed that just maybe you managed it with you day 11 shag).

I've been fine, still exclusively breastfeeding so I am very proud he put on a whole pound in a week - he's 8lb 2oz now, so on the 25th percentile. He would be nearly 3 weeks now if born on his predicted due date but is actually nearly 8 weeks from his actual birthday. It's great - everything I dreamed it would be. Never knew I could be so tired for so long though.

lots of love
N x


----------



## Buffy68

Hello everyone

Hope you are enjoying  .

Natasha - glad to hear your son's growing nicely.  I hope you get to have a good night's sleep soon.

Lulu - sounds like you are rather run down.  Can you take some time out to rest before starting another cycle?  I don't really understand why NY man thinks nothing can develop.  Isn't it possible for you to go out there and spend some time with him and see what happens?

Lee - thanks for informing us about the forum, I'll take a look.

Sue - great news about your growing follies, I'm sending you   for your EC on Monday.  Let us know how you get on.  I know what you mean about getting depressed when you hear about people who get pregnant at the drop of a hat grrrrr.  I try and focus on the things that have worked out for me, like a happy marriage, which lots of people don't have.  Anyway just think how much more appreciative you'll be when you finally get your baby!

Mandamae - sorry about your trauma with the kittens and I hope Stevie is pulling through.  As for the one with twisted legs, my cat was born with this problem but she is fine now.  I am sure faith can move mountains.  

Susie - best wishes for your scan, I would be nervous too, but that doesn't mean anything.  Let us know how you get on.

Annabell - hope you are not bored silly taking it easy and that the bleeding has eased up.  Great news that the embryo is growing well.  I hope your scan on Monday is even more reassuring.  I expect you're wondering if you'll ever stop worrying?  The blood thing is interesting, I think I have read that if the baby you are carrying is different blood type to your own there may be more chance of problems, but this could only happen if your husband is a different blood type to you (presumably he is).  So it's good news that they are on top of this already.  I assume they don't know your baby's blood type yet but if he or she is rhesus negative presumably that would be OK anyway, so they are just being cautious.

Sunshine - how are you feeling?  Don't push yourself too hard.

Ambition - any news on your test yet?

AFM: still on the up, thank goodness.  Had a surprise AF on Easter Sunday, only 18 days after the previous v light AF.  I realised looking back I must have ovulated very early (I had a lot of EWM very early on but ignored it, duh).  This latest AF was much more normal which I find reassuring and I'm hopeful that I'm going to have a better cycle now.  I've already started to test for surges so I won't be caught out again.  If this cycle goes well I'm going to ring Create Health to ask about having a pre IVF scan and take it from there.  Have managed to stay away from stress at work but still need to find the button that turns my negative and obsessive thoughts off LOL.


----------



## annabell99

Hi all- 

Sorry only got minute so just a very quick note to say Sue and Susie lots of love and luck for tomorrow and Manda I hope so much that your kittens are doing well.

I'll write more tomorrow , lots of love to all

xxx


----------



## lulumead

looking forward to hearing about a bumper crop of eggies tomorrow Sue  

and all about the scan Susie.

AFM, finally feeling better, even managed to eat an easter egg which I haven't been able to before now because of mouth ulcers!  AF arrived today too, so no miracle conception, and it's 4 days early but I'm not surprised as had hysteroscopy this month and then crazy week with the american and then poorly....think my body is a bit awry. Anyway good news as means I can crack on with next IUI    

I posted over on the forum...come over and say hello  

xx


----------



## suesunday

Hallo lovely ladies! Thanks so much for the good wishes! Bless you! 

I only got 7 eggs though (half the follies - what is that about?)   , and now I've got 4 embryos and I go for transfer sometime (not quite finalised) on Thursday. I know it's illogical, but I feel really despondent. I only ended up with one more fertilised egg than last time even though my dosage was 50% higher. One of the people I saw at Guys called me a poor responder, and I thought he was mental, but now I'm not so sure.    Help! I need to cheer up before I get those embies back! 

Also, to my surprise, I was awake-ish throughout the egg collection. I moaned and wailed quite a bit - my poor hubbie could hear me outside, although it wasn't actually that bad. What about the poor woman waiting to go in after me- what must she have thought? God, I hope it wasn't her first time! But a surprise and not a good one! I wonder why they knocked me out last time but not this one? 

Lulu - I think that it's probably a good thing that you didn't get the miracle one shag BFP. Might have slightly complicated things with Mr NY!    Good for you - chocolate eggs and IUIs should do it!  

Susie - how did the scan go? 

Annabell - was your scan this Monday or is it the Monday coming up? 

Hurrah Buffy! I'm so glad to hear you're on the up and up. OPKs do add to the mental-ness, but if your cycle is a bit of a moveable feast, they are quite helpful. None of us can entirely turn off the mental-ness, so don't beat yourself up about it too much. And you're quite right about focusing on the good stuff. I will do that this afternoon. (I have just turned off Sky News which is coming from Nappy Valley and making me want to weep!   Bloody bloody. I want to sit around in cafes with cute babies in expensive looking prams. Bloody bloody.) 

Natasha - blimey, that is a bit of a shocker about the 3D scan. You went through quite a lot in the latter day thanks to that high BP etc. Um. Glad to hear he's doing well though! 

Ambition - any news?     

And Mandamae - hope your little clutch of babies are thriving. 

Sue xx


----------



## lulumead

sue don't feel too despondent....although I know its hard. On my 2nd go I had about 10 follies and they only found 3 eggs...they were really surprised and I was disappointed....but on the next go I got 10 eggs so it all seems to be a bit hit and miss!  4 embies is good and should give you a good two to pop back.     Weird about the sedation....I love that bit normally as they always knocked me out.

How's everyone else getting on?

xx

PS whilst the miracle conception would have been complicated, I have to say the idea of having a baby with someone I know and think is great was and is very very appealing...sometimes I feel a bit sad about using a donor but that's the situation I am in so I just have to get on with it.


----------



## suesunday

Thanks Lulu - that's really good to know, makes me feel better. Is amazing though - 3 eggs from 10 follies. Gosh. 

And I can totally see your point about wanting it to be someone you know and have high regard for.      I have been listening to the Archers too much, and Helen "I don't want a man, I want a baby" Archer in particular. I think Mr NY needs his head seeing to. You are clearly super lovely, and he should be all for trying to make something of it with you. 

Thanks again - really helpful
Sue xx


----------



## SusieB20

Hi Sue - just to add to Lulu's comments, in case it helps - I only had 3 eggs collected from 6 follies and then only two fertilized (one grade 2 and one grade 3) - so don't lose heart. Best of luck for tomorrow, hope you're feeling a bit more cheery now.

Annabell - how are you getting on? Hope the hematoma is shrinking

Sunshine - are you doing okay back at work? Hope you're feeling lots better

Ambition - thinking of you    

Mandamae - how's little Stevie doing and all the other fur babies? Am a huge animal lover so have been thinking of you

Lulu - sorry things didn't go exactly to plan with Mr NY - from the sound of the goodbye you had at the airport there's obviously a real connection between you two - when is he over next? 

AFM, I had my anomaly scan on Monday and everything went really well - we're having two girls     - they're on the 50th centile growth wise and that's using a singleton chart so all the protein I've been shovelling down has paid off (and also explains why I'm expanding so rapidly!). The placentas are high which is good and I'm low risk for pre-eclampsia. One placenta is at the front which is why I can't feel the kicks of that twin so much, at least I know why now. So it can't have gone much better really. I'll be 23 weeks tomorrow so approaching safer territory - I'm going on mat leave at 28 weeks so that will be my next milestone to work towards. Only downer is possibility of bacterial infection so had a swab on Monday and should find out result tomorrow.

Sorry if I have missed out anyone on the personals

Lots of love xxx


----------



## lulumead

Thanks sue, that was very nice to hear...Mr NY thinks I'm lovely....but obviously not enough to see if it could be something more, maybe its just bad timing     Are you having embies popped back tomorrow? How are they coming along?

SusieB: he's back in mid Sept for 5 weeks which will be nice and I will be talking to him a lot over the next few months for work, but hopefully i'll be pregnant by the time he comes back! so that might change everything anyway.  So lovely to hear about your scan, two little girls, how gorgeous - good to hear that its all going well, can't wait to hear about them being born, so exciting.  Hope the bacterial infection is quickly sorted and 28 weeks arrive soon so you can be on leave with your feet up!

How's everyone else doing?

2nd injection for me tonight for my IUI, and off to Create for a scan on Friday morning....and so it begins again  

xxx


----------



## suesunday

Oh - thanks Susie. Really good to hear - and now look at you! Two lovely little girls on the way! So exciting! Gosh - there's going to be some fighting about toys/clothes/boys in your house.    

Lulu - you might hate me for this, but have you read the Rules? I know, I know. It's hateful, anti feminist nonsense, but view it like Super Nanny for men.    

Yes - having them popped back tomorrow. But I don't know how they're doing. Can you find out beforehand? My acupuncturist asked me how they were too. Is it possible to find out? 

Love, 
Sue xx


----------



## lulumead

Hi Sue
Yes I don't think Create really say whats happening with them apart from how many fertilise and then you get the news when you go in...exciting though...onto the pessaries...oh joy  

I've heard about the rules...but I suspect by blubbing on him, and having sleep in my bed I have probably broken every rule going  

xx


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## annabell99

Hi all!

Susie- I hope you had a great time in Scotland and DH enjoyed his birthday! Thank you so much for writing from there to let me know about your hematoma- I was so touched by that, it was really kind of you   ! Congratulations on the two little ones- great to know they are both doing so well! 

Mandamae- I hope and pray that your kittens are doing well.  

Lulu- sorry to hear no miracle Mr NY pregnancy. It does sound like there is something strong between the two of you so I hope it all works out better when you see him in September. Good luck for the scan tomorrow, I hope the IUI goes smoothly   

Buffy- Great to hear you are still feeling better!  I hope you will be able to try another cycle soon. I don't actually think there is that much can be done about the negative and obsessive thoughts, I think we all have them. I actually think (heresy I know ) that positive thinking doesn't make as much difference in this situation as people say-  I appreciate that it helps you to keep picking yourself up and trying again, but I really don't think it has any impact on the outcome each time. So I don't think you should worry that worrying is impacting your chances. I thought that my last cycle had no chance of working, and it did, and I have been worried sick ever since about every possible problem - and so far all still going well....

Sue- I also get furious when people fall pregnant straight away- it just doesn't seem fair! It's even worse when they say things like "it took 3 months to fall pregnant and we were really worried"    I hope all is going well today with ET. Don't worry about the number of eggs - I had 8 from 8 follies but then only 2 of them fertilised - it does seem very random. I hope you have a good one to go back today    

Natasha- The hematoma was 4x3x2 cm at its worst BUT it seems to have gone now  . I had a scan many many years ago to check for PCOS after my sister had a burst cyst and the sonographer then said I had a bicornate uterus. We weren't trying to conceive then so it didn't mean much to me and TBH I had forgotten all about it until I saw your post. That was just an ordinary 2D scan though so maybe the sonographer was wrong? Nobody at Create has mentioned it. Great to hear that Alexander is doing so well and hope you get some sleep soon!  

AFM we have had the 12 week scan with the Prof and the NHS. Great news is that all seems well and the hematoma is either much smaller or gone.   The prof has given a Down's risk of 1:6750 and the NHS  1:1850 so I'm a bit confused about the difference - obviously either is fine but still strange that the difference is so large. I have the details for the NHS one and all measures are fine except for PAPP A which is low (Natasha I think you had this too?) . I haven't had the detailed letter from Create yet so I can't compare the measurements - it should be here tomorrow. I finally told my family last night - they are really excited. I still mostly feel worried, but i hope I will be able to relax a bit soon  

Lots of love to all

xxx


----------



## luce87

Hi everyone
I've been lurking for a while as I've been thinking about switching clinics to Create - and I've finally decided to book an initial appointment in a couple of weeks.
So I just thought I'd say hello to everyone and also ask what the inside info is on the clinic, and ask a few questions if that's ok?
I am thinking about mild or natural cycle IVF as it's supposed to be a better success rate at my age and I feel like I've had enough Gonal f to last a lifetime!  Is anyone else having natural cycle?  Is the scanning a good indicator of whether there is an egg in the follicle?  I haven't had a doppler scan before so I was just wondering what others experience has been of it?
I was reading the info from the clinic and wondered whether their charges are as complicated as they seem?  I was wondering about the 3 cycle package and how that worked.
At my previous clinic it was impossible to get early appointments, and they never ran to time - how is at create?
Well I hope that my appointment goes well and that I do get to start treatment soon, and that I'll get to know you all.
Thanks
Luce x


----------



## allieallie

Hi,
I've dropped off for a bit, partly because of overly demanding boss sapping my energy, and partly because AF's been all over the place, not behaving.  But I'm trying to enjoy spring. 

Lulu- I sympathise w you re the man, but glad you dont feel he has to be depended on.

Mandamae- Hope the kittens are okay.

Buffy - Keep the positive thoughts up. I find that those fertility cds help.

Luce -Welcome, I hope your initial appointment goes well. Do look over this thread for suggestions for questions to ask at the appt. The Doppler scan is just a more fancy version of a regular scan, takes a bit longer, and makes funny noises -- but you can see your blood flow right then and there which is nice! Prof Campbell is I think the nicest and most thorough, and I beleive is a renowned scanning expert. I and several friends have definitely had less-than-satisfactory scanning experiences with some other staff. As for the inside info on the clinic, since this is a small clinic and has less patients than many other clinics, there are less people on this bd. But also I'm sure people also welcome private qs if you'd prefer.        

I love the look and feel of the clinic (spa-like), and the staff are nice. But as you may have seen earlier on this thread, there are a lot of policies Create doesn't spell out, and patients often suffer from confusion as a result. It can therefore seem like staff are not helpful - but I think it's more that they are trying to help patients while mired in unclear policies and prices.  I've recommended the clinic to many friends, and to be honest, some have sworn it off because they didnt want to deal with the confusing prices/policies, which affect older women more, as they may have more unsuccesful initial scans. For these women, the 3-cycle package would not work. So ask Qs, and continue asking. But I think low-stim and natural is really a great way to go. And I beleive Create is the only clinic in London doing "natural" (please correct me if I'm wrong).

As for me, I'm trying to be positive myself, as it seems no month is a good month for IVF -- either because AF is wonky, or some other minor issue. Meanwhile the clock is really ticking, so it feels stressful!.... I've taken to to cutting flowers from the local park and breathe in fertility essence from all that growth.


----------



## Buffy68

Hello all


allie - sorry to hear about your misbehaving AF.  I've had some trouble with this too, although it seems to coincide with me getting sick with a virus.  Have you had any colds or infections?

luce - welcome to the board.  I am sure visiting Create Health will be a step forward for you and a blessing for your body if it has taken a hammering from lots of drugs.  I plan to do a natural or controlled cycle shortly.  (Controlled is when they control the timing of ovulation but they don't stimulate you to produce more follicles than you would naturally.)  I have learned, when they scan your follicle, to ask if the blood flow is good.  If it is then there is an 80% chance of there being an egg (although you can't tell the quality of the egg).  Quite often Create don't run to time because of the nature of what they do, but I have had appointments at 9.00am.  Let us know how your appointment goes.  

Annabell - thanks for your kind words about positive thinking which I found reassuring re the outcome.  My main  problem is letting myself get stressed because of what is going on in my mind, which is obviously damaging for my health and fertility.  I wish I could be more laid back and trust in the process.  I am glad to hear your scan went so well and that the test for Down's Sydrome showed this is not something you need to be at all concerned with.  Are you feeling more relaxed now?

Sue - how did the ET go?  I think 4 embryos is a good result, from what I've read on these boards, I don't think you have cause for concern there.  The degree of sedation at EC depends on the anaesthetist (sp?).  I find that the lighter sedation the quicker I feel better.

Lulu - hope you are feeling better now.  How did the first scan go?

Susie - great news about your scan and the twin girls.  Go break your bank balance at Monsoon, they've got gorgeous dresses for little girls    I hope the bacterial infection clears up soon.

AFM: I ovulated around day 12 so decided to phone Create to ask what I needed to do about "getting back on the horse" so to speak.  It took a while to hear as Geeta was consulted and I was told I should come for a pre-IVF scan, so I am going in on Friday.  Unfortunately I am now stressed out about a.) waiting to hear back after the phone call because I didn't know what they were going to say and b.) how well the scan will go on Friday as I haven't been scanned since early November so who knows what's going on in there?  So I can now worry about c.) the stress of a.) and b.) screwing up my hormones and cycle.  I WANT A NEW HEAD.


----------



## suesunday

I'm just dropping in and running, so excuse me for lack for proper personals. But just have to say oooh, poor Buffy, stop worrying about worrying (although I'm a fine one to talk!). I so feel for you, bless you. But as Annabell said, and was crystal clear from her posts, she was in full on despair mode when she got her BFP. I must say I take great comfort from that myself! So Annabell - all that worrying isn't wasted at least - it takes the edge off mine!  Good news on scan btw - well done! 

Lulu - it's never too late for the Rules. You're allowed to sleep with them though - just not ring them or text them! Fantastic!   

Nice to have you back Allie, and very warm welcome Luce! 

Any news from Ambition?  

Thanks also all for the reassuring words about the no. of eggs. I ended up with 1 grade 1 and 1 grade 2 but only 5 cells each - which is a bit slow for Day 3. And two which they said they didn't hold out much hope of getting to freeze. (Do they tell you what happened to those ones at any point?) Anyway, fingers crossed that "the twins" are snuggling down. After my drugs went to a neighbour's house by accident, she said that she and her friends would pray for me to have a lovely baby - how incredibly sweet! So hoping that with all that goodwill, I'll have an even better chance. 

Already going mad - but particularly paranoid about juddering buses. That's a good one isn't it?


----------



## lulumead

Good luck sue, crossing everything for you for next couple of weeks.  Think Create have very high threshold for freezing...I never had any to freeze, and generally they just said they weren't good enough to freeze, no more info than that. 

Hmmm....I would so fail the Rules....I texted him today just to day hello! but it is tough as we are having to work together so I have to maintain a level of communication.

Hello Luce too...you can get early appointments at create, it just really depends on how busy they are...but be prepared to wait especially if you are seeing Geeta...I have never seen her at the alloted time. Having said that EC and ET have always been pretty punctual.

Buffy: try not to worry, easier said than done I know.

hello everyone else.

AFM: friday scan was fine...follies still small so they upped meds to try and recruit at least two follies. Scan again tomorrow morning. Was slightly annoyed as when the new Dr (man - seems nice) looked back over the last IUI he said, oh yes last time there was only one follie - i had been lead to believe there was two when clearly the smaller one was too small...which meant I wasted two squirts of sperm on a lower chance. Bit annoyed. Sperm is as expensive as liquid gold!  anyway ho-hum...onwards and upwards....also signed back on to eharmony as an attempt to put Mr NY to back of my mind. Now if you ladies have any nice single men friends, feel free to send them my way....I am pretty normal!

xx


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## Mandamae

Hello girls, sorry no time for personals as i'm busy busy busy.
We went to the open day on sat at 2pm although didn't get there till 2:30 cause of M1 traffic probs and then the slowwwwww tube to wimbledon, having said that what we heard in the last 30 mins was all good and i agreed with all of it. we saw geeta who said i was a perfect candidate for natural although i want mild ivf, it was also nice to hear she agreed with my want for ivf not icsi as we have done twice out of our 3 cycles. she said your perfect cause your so young when i replied i'm 30 in a few months she said yes you're young (most people who meet me think i'm much younger and i have been asked by a few patients at work if i was there on work experience  ). So we have booked an initial app for may 13th at harley st clinic as much easier to get to.

We went to floatworks yesterday (floatworks.co.uk) at London bridge and we loved it! it felt amazing and i still feel like i'm floating, amongst other things it helps increase blood flow and regulate heart beat and the water temp is the same as body temp 37.0 so that's another alternative therapy to add to to list lol

Thanks to all who asked/prayed for my kittens. We lost 2 of them but have 3 healthy ones left although one (ziggy) has twisted back legs but i'm giving him physio but may need splints. we're keeping him.

mandamae xx


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## Kittycat104

Hello all

Can I join you?  I am thinking of moving to Create after two failed cycles.  I have a low AMH and have had a poor response to high stims on both my cycles.  Hence my thinking about trying natural IVF at Create.  But I am reluctant to move clinics again and/or spend yet more money unless I am sure its going to be worth it.

So, I am really looking for your advice/experiences of Create to help me make up my mind!  Would you recommend them?  Have you felt that they are really interested in your treatment?  Have they made sure they adjust your treatment to suit your needs?  Have you felt like an individual or a number?  Any info gratefully received - I would welcome honest opinions - PM me if you want.

Thank you all so much in advance!

L xx


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## luce87

Hi ladies
Thank you for the warm welcome, and all the info.  I really appreciate it.  Only a week to go until my appointment so fingers crossed it goes ok.  I don't know what to expect from the scan and what it will show and whether that will be good news or not as never had the kind of scan that they do.  So it will be interesting.

It's hard to do personals when you're new, but I'll attempt them as I get to know you all!

Good luck to all of you having tx or on 2ww.

Luce x


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## lulumead

Hello louises104

Welcome!  I have to say that I like Create a lot as a clinic, even though it is yet to work for me. They are small and I feel like I know them all and they know my name...maybe not a good sign!  I do genuinely believe that they want me to get pregnant and they are less money motivated than other clinics.  Geeta the consultant is very clear about her views and she is a pioneer of natural and mild IVF however she does hold strong views about things like immune therapy, I find it a bit tricky to think about exploring this at this clinic and yet I am beginning to wonder if applies to me.....but anyway, despite it not working for me yet I'd still recommend them which says a lot I suppose.  In fact everytime I say I really want it to work so that I can spread the word about mild IVF and that it can work!! I like their ethos although it might end up not being the right clinic for me...

good luck
lxx


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## Lucky Brumbar

Hi ladies!
Just wanted to introduced myself – I’m 32 (  I have endo - lap late January) and DH -31 ( low morphology, but has 2 kids!!!!). This is our first IVF ( possibly with ICSI)  and we are starting stims early next week (Cd2). We’re at Create in Wimbledon on  a short protocol – stimulated cycle. Geeta seems confident we stand a very good chance ( I hope she’s right! ) 
Not sure what to expect , so I was hoping for some guidance- are the scans early in the morning, or could it be at anytime? I guess it is where and when they fit you?
Also, I received my drugs, but there was no cyclogest, is this something they give you at the clinic after EC? 

Thank you so much for your help


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## NatashaM

Hi Brumbar,

Welcome to the thread and good luck with this go. You're a nice young age so hopefully you will be successful. 

The scans can be at any time of day - and they will only let you book the next one after you've had the one you are there for. A bit annoying as it would be good to book them all at once but they only know how many days til the next one when they've scanned you. Everyone wants the 9am slot and they often double and even triple book it so best to arrive 10-15 minutes early in order to be the first one.

I got my pessaries the day of egg collection.

All the best,
N x


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## lulumead

hello Brumbar...welcome to our lovely board of create-ers! Good luck with your cycle, look forward to hearing all about it.

Hello everyone else  - hope you are all doing ok and enjoying the sunshine.

AFM: I've had to abandon my cycle. Feeling bit   and   Went for scan on monday and all was ok, two follies developing well, nothing else going on. Went on Thursday for scan and there were 8 follies...what the hey!!! in three days!!!! So too many for IUI, although I can't believe that eggs could grow that quickly.  Tried to switch to IVF but bloods showed that would probably ovulate before they could get eggs out, so no choice but to abandon.  So frustrating. I know logically its only another month to wait to go again, but it does mean I've wasted £600 for nothing. And I don't understand why I responded like that, I was on less puregon than for my 1st IVF    
Waiting to speak to Freda next week (after she has spoken to Geeta) to see what we do next time. Ho hum.  I did have three cocktails last night to make up for it, and I don't normally drink.

Sorry to moan on. Times like this when it would be nice to have a bloke around...feeling a bit woe is me.  But maybe thats because I have an overload of progesterone following 8 follicles popping  

xxx


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## nevergiveup1

Lulu... just popping in to say hello!!! So sorry about deviant follys.
  

U just have to believe its going to happen for you soon.


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## lulumead

thanks Shell....not really believing that at the moment. I'm sure I'll be positive again tomorrow.

Nice to see that your bubs is growing well  
xxx


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## Buffy68

Hello all

Lulu - sorry to hear about your abandoned cycle.  It is a mystery why the body reacts different ways at different times to the same or similar drugs but I suppose this is a similar experience to when the same woman gets 2 good eggs on one IVF cycle and 8 on another.  Don't be despondent though, I am sure this is a temporary hold-up.

Brumbar - welcome to the fourm.  I don't really have anything to add to what Lulu and Natasha said.  The scans I've had have nearly all been in the morning.  I hope you'll let us know how your first cycle goes.  

Luce -   for your appointment and scan.  Do let us know how you get on!!

Louise - I think that you should try a more natural approach.  Using drugs to stimulate a so-called "poor responder" is a bit like flogging a tired horse.  Better to go with what your body can produce naturally.  Also using lots of drugs must just be another strain on your body that you don't need.  They do treat you as indiviudal although it can be a case of "out of sight, out of mind".  In other words, you have to take some responsibility for directing things.  I daresay this is the case with most IVF clinics.

Mandamae - sorry to hear you lost 2 kitties but glad to hear the others are thriving.  Do you know when you are going to try a cycle?

Sue - how's the 2WW going?  Still obsessing about juddering buses?  What are you doing to keep your mind otherwise occupied?  Are you working at the moment or have you taken time off?  I'm   for a BFP for you!

Annabell - how's it going?  Are you feeling more relaxed now you're past 3 months?  When's your next scan?  I suppose you'll find out the sex soon?

AFM: my pre-IVF scan was OK.  I saw Freda (did you know Lakshmi and Rupina had left?).  The scan showed I had ovulated because I had a corpus luteum and also a good endometrium lining which was reassuring.  Unfortunately only one little follicle showing (I was day 20) for next cycle.  Freda says this does vary but I would have liked to see more.  Anyway we have agreed I will go back and rescan around day 4 or 5 so it looks like I will be doing the next cycle.  I stressed I wanted to do controlled to avoid the premature LH surge which has caused quite a few cancelled cycles.

Best wishes to all
Buffy


----------



## 2Flowergirl

Hi Ladies,

Apologies for not posting in a long time....I've found the whole IVF process quite stressful and have dealt with it by sort of blanking it out as much as possible!

Luce _ Good luck at scan!

Lulumed - Hope next cycle is better !!

Annabell - Hope you are relaxing and enjoying your pregnancy 

Suesunday - Sending you lots of      

Bumbar - Good luck, the staff at Create are lovely!

Buffy - fingers x your re-scan goes well! 

Madamae - Sorry to hear about the lost kittens  ...My cat is due to give birth to kittens on Friday...they will be lilac British Shorthairs, so excited!

Louise - I have felt very comfortable with my treatment at Create so far.  One of the reasons I decided to go there is I didn't want to deal with a large clinic with lots of people waiting and feeling rushed as I think that would have stressed me even more.

Sorry if I've missed anyone?

Me - Had EC last Monday and it went well, although surprisingly only 8 eggs out of 14 follicles, 5 eggs mature enough for ICSI and 4 fertilised.  I then had a day two day transfer of 2 x Grade 1 x 4-cell embryos last Wednesday (sadly other two not good enough to freeze), so now on the 2 ww and driving myself and DH nuts!!

Good luck to everyone!!  
xx


----------



## NatashaM

Oh man! Lulu, I am SO sorry ((big hugs)). How frustrating and disappointing. 

Flowegirl - good luck with the 2 week wait. Sometimes you have to take a step back, don't you? Otherwise it seems like the IVF is the only thing that defines you. 

Suesunday - A massive good luck to you too. Juddering bus not quite as mad as my fear of having squeezed embryos out while pooing...

Buffy - good luck to you too for the next cycle. I wonder why Lakshmi left, I think it might have been her that did my successful embryo transfer (Geeta did the first one that didn't work).

Welcome to Louises104

Mandamae - hope the 3 remaining kittens are thriving. 

We're doing fine on the whole. Alexander is 9 lb 10 oz - really catching up - now on the 50th centile. The tiredness has led to me being a bit snappy with my husband - I really screamed at him today - felt so guilty afterwards, always swore we would never argue in front of the baby let alone have a screaming row with smashed plates. It's all sorted now and was just a blip but I am still mortified.


----------



## 2Flowergirl

Hi Natasha,

Congrats on your little boy growing so well!  It's perfectly normal to get stressed from time to time as you are both still adjusting to all the changes that parenthood brings and despite our best efforts its sometimes difficult to contain our emotions.  In fact my 7 year old was playing up this morning and DH and I ended up snapping at each other in the end.  Great all is sorted with you guys now!

Mr. Efstathios Theodorou did my ET, hope he is experienced!  Don't think I met Lakshmi, but possibly at our first consult back in November?  I woke up feeling a bit negative today as I am fretting over why we had a 2 day transfer and it that will affect the chances of success.  To day is 6DPO and I woke in the night to a cramping sensation but then by this morning nothing....

Have a good Sunday! xxx


----------



## Kittycat104

Hello all

Thank you for your welcomes to the thread and your feedback on the clinic.  Glad to hear that you are all positive about Create.  Have first consult with Geeta booked for May, so hopefully can get started on a cycle the following month.

Finding some of the pricing info a bit hard to get my head around!

2Flowergirl - best of luck with your 2ww.  In my experience, it is very hard not to analyse every little symptom - or lack of.  Definitely the most difficult part of the cycle, but then I have never been very patient.

Lulumead - very frustrating about your cycle.  2 follicles to 8 is very unusual, I would have thought.  Have you had any feedback from the clinic as to why it might have happened?

Can anyone shed any light on why the price for mild IVF is so much more than for natural?  

Looking forward to getting to know you all better over the coming weeks

Louise x


----------



## NatashaM

It's the cost of the drugs that bumps up the price. I think it's nearly a grand for the Gonal F (follicle stimulating hormone injections).


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## lulumead

Hi Louises104

I would think mild is more expensive as more scans and bloods taken, i.e more monitoring. You have to pay for any drugs in additional to the cost quoted for mild IVF just to be aware so its £2750 (or whatever it is) plus drugs on top which can add another grand or so.  

xx


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## lulumead

oh and you have to pay for bloods on top of this cost too!!
x


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## Kittycat104

I have learnt from my previous experience of IVF how quickly the costs can add up!


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## lulumead

yes its great isn't it      

xxx


----------



## Lucky Brumbar

Hey Ladies!
Thank you for your lovely messages! 
Lulu - sorry you had to abandon this cycle...what a pain!
Flowergirl- hope the 2ww is kind to you

I started stims yesterday and booked the day 5 scan for this Friday at 9am! thank you for the "arrive early" tip  much appreciated!

if all goes by the book  the second scan should be on Bank Holiday Monday! are they open?
EC should be on Friday the 7th and et on Sunday!!! Are they open on sundays for transfers? I,m just worried a bit about it.

Also ... I only have 1 Gonal-F pen 900 for a stimulated cycle... does it sound normal to you?

Thank you again for your support ladies!


----------



## lulumead

definitely open for ET on sundays....and I suspect open on bank holiday too  

what dose are you on of Gonal-F?  generally I think I stimmed from about 8 days...actually can't really remember...anyway it depends on your dose and how many days but you might need some more    I am sure Create can sort this out for you.

x


----------



## Lucky Brumbar

Hey lulu! thanks for this! I,m on Gonal -F150 IU...
I really hope they can sort me out! they only ordered 1x 900 IU pen for me  
Scan tomorrow 9am!


----------



## lulumead

you might be ok...that will do 6 days   

Good luck with scan... Sometimes you just have to be on top of things and ask for stuff, I am always surprised how much we all have to stay on the ball with clinics to make sure things happen! So just check whether they think you will need more.

xx


----------



## Lucky Brumbar

follicle scan today: Prof Campbell did it. I have 8follies measuring between 5-9mm...bad news is...my endometrioma is back (2 months - i can't believe it!), but luckily won't affect EC!

lining 5.5mm, good blood supply ...
next scan on Sunday!!!!
I did ask about the  drugs, they'll give me more if I need them at the clinic!


----------



## suesunday

Hallo all. Another BFN for me. And I am a bit more gutted this time! Grump. We went on a little UK holiday just before OTD, which in retrospect was a bad idea I think. Didn't really enjoy the holiday as much as I should have done. I didn't bleed before OTD this time - so I had got my hopes up. Silly. Thanks for all the good wishes guys - it's really lovely. And I'm shattered (the bed was one of those rubbish IKEA ones, squeaked when either of us moved) so you need to discount the moaning a bit...  

Lulu - very glad to hear you're signed up to eharmony. One of my mates married someone very nice recently that she met on Guardian Soulmates. So much more efficient than trawling around bars. But I do often think how much harder this must be without someone to moan on to about it - but more strength to you, to be brave enough to do this. Hats off to you.   

Hallo Brumbar - welcome to the board! I had that with my first drugs - but you do need to keep an eye on the pen to make sure you have enough! Had the opposite problem this time - been left with loads extra. Quite annoying. 

Welcome Louise! And Luce - good luck! 

And welcome back 2Flowergirl - fair play if you keep all this madness at a distance. It can send you mental... And a million good wishes to you       

Buffy! Hurrah! I'm excited for you. I'm totally wanting you to nail this - you so deserve it. 

Am thinking about the Lister maybe. Or even going mad and heading for Taranassi or UCH.


----------



## annabell99

Hi all!

Sue- I am so so sorry    , I have been checking to see if you had any news and I had everything crossed for you. Don't worry about moaning, you are entitled to moan as much as you want and need to! Don't give up, it may well be third time lucky   

Brumbar- Hello! All sounds like it is going well so far- 8 follies is great. Don't stress about the amount of gonal F, you can get more same day from the clinic if you need it. I hope all goes well at the scan tomorrow!  

Lulu- Really sorry to hear your cycle was cancelled   , how frustrating ! I can't believe your follies grew so quickly! I hope Geeta is able to come up with a different approach for next time for you so that there is no repeat of that situation. 

Louise - Hello! I hope your consultation with Geeta goes well and you are able to start a cycle soon. Create is a really nice friendly clinic and I'm sure you will feel a difference if you have tried other places previously.

Flowergirl - welcome back! We had Dr Theodorou for the last ET, he was great - really calm. Don't worry about the 2 day transfer, I had one too in my last cycle and I thought it meant bad news but when I spoke the the embryologist they said it was now the standard practice at Create as they think there is no difference in success rates between 2 and 3 day transfers so best to have the embies back in the natural environment asap. Good luck with the 2ww!   

Natasha- It's totally normal to get stressed especially when you have had so much trauma and must be so tired. Don't beat yourself up over it. You are doing a fantastic job with Alexander, it's brilliant news that he's growing so well.

Buffy - Great to hear that your pre- IVF scan went well,  lots and lots of luck for this cycle!    My next scan (20 weeks) is 18th June so still quite a long wait. Prof C thought he could tell whether it was a girl or boy at the 12 week scan but since he thought the opposite to what I had already (totally irrationally !) convinced myself, in my mind the jury is still out until the next scan. I expect it will show that the Prof was right though!!

Luce- Hello! I hope your appointment goes well   

Manda- I'm really sorry about the kittens who didn't make it  , I hope the remaining ones continue to thrive and Ziggy's legs straighten out. I've been at the vet with my cat this morning as the poor thing is spewing everywhere continuously, the vet thinks it could be irritable bowel  .  Ihope your first appointment with Create goes well!

AFM, lots going on recently as DH has got a new job which is based in Edinburgh   , so we went up there for a few days (I've never even been before!) to see what it's like. Talk about everything happening at once! So if anyone has any info on Edinburgh, please let me know...  All going well with the little one, I had an obstetrician appointment this week where I heard the heartbeat again (so reassuring!) and they have booked extra NHS scans at 30 weeks and 34 weeks to check growth because of my low PAPP A blood results. That's still a long way away though as now is only 14 weeks- it seems to go so slowly!

Lots of love to all

xx


----------



## NatashaM

Hi All,

Thanks for the encouraging messages - and apologies for being so insensitive as to moan on here when so many of you are still waiting. 

Suesunday - What can I say? Am heartbroken for you. Not surprised you are feeling gutted. I want it for you so much. You're such a lovely person and wil be a great mum I'm sure. Maybe time to try another clinic? ARCG if you can afford it.

Annabell - There was something I wanted to say to you - make sure you start getting your blood pressure checked every week from about week 22 as you are at higher risk of developing pre-eclampsia. If it goes up significantly, try to get an earlier scan with colour dopplers of the blood flow.

Brumbar - I had to get some more Gonal F because I mis-loaded the pen with far too much one time and had to discard it. They do a 400 pen as well as the 900 - I think I started out with one of each. They didn't have any at the clinic though, they had to fax a prescription to the people who delivered it in a cool bag on a bike. I forgot about that... I was beside myself, trying to get hold of a new pen at the last min. And the moment when I realised what I'd done with the mis-loading. You know when you really really really want to rewind the last 5 minutes?

2flowegirl - thinking of you - good luck.

We had a bit of scare last Monday - Alexander developed a non-blanching purple rash on his face. By chance we were in hospital anyway having his hip ultrasound (routine for preemies - sometimes the ball and socket joint doesn't develop that well and they are in danger of dislocation but sonographer said it looked fine to her) and I asked a passing nurse to look at it. She marched us straight to A+E and we were seen straight away in front of everyone else - a good thing but also worrying because they were taking it so seriously. Had blood tests and stayed for observation for 4 hours. Blood tests all fine except that he's pretty anaemic so now on iron medicine which we have to mix with expressed milk and give him in a bottle (tried giving it neat but made him vom everywhere). Apparently anaemia also very common in preemies so rather confused that no one told us or suggested giving him supplements before we found this out by chance. Still, at least we know now and can do something about it.

Lots of love to everyone. Hope you have nice relaxing bank hols.

xx


----------



## suesunday

Oh god, Natasha, that does sound terrifying - I'm so glad it turned out fine - as fine as anaemia, anyway, which sounds okay to me. I don't think you're in the slightest bit insensitive - not the slightest tiniest bit. And I think it's marvellous that you're here. 

Thank you for the sympathy Natasha and Annabell. I really appreciate it. I'm feeling far more down about it than I was expecting to. Am actually looking forward to going back to work! Argh! I'm waking up every morning thinking about not being pregnant. Need to knock that on the head. Bit frightened of going to ARGC or Lister. I like the idea of not doing unnecessary drugs and so on and I feel on that front quite safe at Create. But also frightened that I might be missing something, and frightened of not giving myself the best chance of success.  

Susie and Ambition - where did you get your immunes/ other mc related tests done? Not convinced by immunes entirely - and a lot of the immune stuff reminds me of my friend's leukaemia treatment and frightens the sh1te out of me. But I wonder about it, esp as I've seen coeliac on the list of tests and I do know I have that already. 

Annabell - I love the idea that you and the Prof are at loggerheads about the flavour of the baby you're carrying! Very funny! 
I really like Edinburgh, but I don't like warm weather, so I wouldn't miss 20 degrees plus temperatures in summer! Mr Sunday is from there, and we go most summers and winters. It's a lovely size - everything you could want in a city, but you can see hills from the centre. Check out the great view from the bar in Harvey Nicks! In terms of places to live in town, Stockbridge is nice - but expensive. Husband says Newtown is also nice. And there are lots and lots of knitting shops.... Cold and lots of knitting shops and veggie restaurants - lovely! (Don't tell Mr Sunday, he'll get ideas about going home.)


----------



## Lucky Brumbar

Hi Ladies

Sue, sooooooo sorry about BFN!!!!!

Natasha- Hope things get better soon!!!!Oh and I know the "rewind the tape" feeling very well! I didn,t read the instructions with my first injection and did it really quickly...only to find out that it should,ve taken at least 10 secs!!!! Blah....!!!!

Anabell- Edinburgh is a great city! I'm sure you'll love it- a bit chilly, but it has a great feel

Flowergirl!- fingers x-ed!!!!
Louise- not long now!!!!

* Update: CD 7, treatment day 6, 5 gonal F-150*

Geeta did the scan today. the 4 follies to the left are between 13.8 - 11.8, those on the right are slacking behind on 9-8? is this normal?? can they still catch up with the bigger ones? How big can the follies get b4 they need to be taken out - if they grow 2mm per day those on the left will be 24mm when the right side is on 18!
Geeta said there's a small chance of cancelling the cycle>? 
I was told to add cetrotide this evening and was given another Gonal pen 300... next scan on Tuesday. Geeta mentioned that she might need to up the dose....
I'm sure that if things were looking really bad she would,ve told me to take more as of today...but I'm still worried as I soo don't want this to be cancelled!!!! 
off to google for information!


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## NatashaM

Oh I missed that about the Prof telling Annabell what she had - he correctly said that Alexander was a boy even though I'd been sure I was carrying a girl. I told him my mum had dreamed I was having a boy and he made a joke about the scan not having been necessary in that case.

There's a really nice woman from my NCT group who just moved up to Edinburgh because of HER husband's job. Maybe I could put you in touch with her. I don't think she knows that many people up there either.

Brumbar - my follicles weren't growing very fast and they upped my gonal f a bit - in the end they delayed collection til day 17 - but as it is I am a late ovulator and don't normally ovulate til day 16 or 17 anyway, so I think that had something to do with it. I really don't think they will cancel your cycle - at the worst they'll only collect from the side with the bigger follicles.

xx


----------



## 2Flowergirl

Hi Ladies,


Suesunday- I am so sorry to hear your news     If I hadn't gone to Create I would've gone to ARCG, it was the natural approach that swung me and the fact that we *know* our problem is MF.  One of the mum's at my daughter's school had twins at ARCG on her first cycle there and their problem was unexplained.  

Brumbar- Good luck   .  I had one ovary that was lagging behind the other quite a bit according to the Professor, so try not to worry too much.  

Annabell - thanks for reassurance about the 2 day transfer and good luck with the next scan 
 

Natasha- Glad your little boy is ok now! It's such a worry when they are so little and they get sick  

Buffy - Good luck with your next cycle! :   


AFM -  MY OTD is Tuesday but I have been testing BFP everyday since last Wednesday, each day the test is darker (trigger 5000iu Pregnyl 15 days ago).  However, I have had light spotting last two days which means I am not 100% if all is well....I did have implantation bleeding with my daughter for one day but have had this over two days, very light and there is still a strong + on the clearblue today, so will wait for the blood test result on Tuesday before I get excited  .

Sorry if I've missed anyone!  

xxx


----------



## Lucky Brumbar

Hey ladies...feeling better today! plenty of EWCM?? must be the estrogen surge.
scan at 2:30 tomorrow- we'll see what they have to say- I hope the big follie has calmed down a bit and is waiting for the rest, or alternatively the little ones may have decided to grow faster only one way to find out!!!!!!

Flowergirl - Good luck tomorrow!!!fingers crossed- i really hope this is it for you! And hope the blood is old stuff from the implantation.

Natasha- LOL  about the Prof's comment!!!!!! And thanks for the info - I usually ovulate on day 14, so I hope all will  be fine.... provisional EC this Friday.  

BTW, did you feel anything during EC? sorry for the stupid Q..... and also...how big were your follies b4 collection?


----------



## NatashaM

2flowergirl - Congrats!! I had spotting two days after my first sneaky positive test - I am sure you will be fine, but I know what a worry spotting is. I should have got used to it, the amount I had but I never did and used to panic whenever there was blood on the loo paper. I do hope your pregnancy progresses smoothly.

Brumbar - Afaid I can't remember what size my follicles were at collection, but there were only 4 of a good enough size - they got them all though. It didn't hurt at the time, I really enjoyed the sleepy anaesthetic - but it was a bit sore for a few days afterwards, especially when trying to poo for some reason - I suppose because I was tensing my muscles.


----------



## Buffy68

Hello everyone

Brumbar - hope your scan goes well    I think the follicles have to be at least 16mm before it is worth doing EC.  I don't really understand why Geeta said they might cancel?  Surely even if you only get one good follicle it's worth collecting the egg?  Perhaps I have misunderstood something as I have only had natural cycles.

Flowergirl - it's sounding positive for you...here's hoping for the official confirmation    I think spotting is common and doesn't mean anything either way.

Sue - sorry to hear about your BFN and also that you have been feeling a bit down since.     I know it's hard when you get a slap round the face like this, but think about the people on this forum who kept trying and are now pregnant!  Maybe it would be worth having a meeting with Geeta before you decide to try another clinic to see if she has any other ideas.  I do feel CH is a very safe place and also maybe they are getting to know the way your body works and reacts to the drugs.  Have you tried acupuncture, it's supposed to increase chances of implantation if you have it the day of ET?

Natasha - sorry to read about your trauma at the hospital, but glad to hear the result was not too awful!   At least you know about the aneamia now so it can be treated.  This motherhood thing is stressful, isn't it?

Annabell - it's good to hear from you.  I am fascinated about your certainty re the sex of the baby.  What's that based on, a dream or just a feeling?  I hope your cat is feeling better.  Edinburgh is a very interesting city with lots of history but take your hot water bottles LOL.  How are your pregnancy symptoms going, did you ever get morning sickness?

Louise - I think Mild is more expensive than Natural because EC would take much longer as you are collecting eggs from 8+ follicles rather than just 1 and then ICSI is expensive so it must cost more to fertilise, say, 6 eggs than 1.  Good luck for your appointment.

AFM: My AF arrived on Sunday (making the previous cycle 28 days) so I have an appointment for a scan on Thursday (day 5).  My main concern is that I don't have another very short cycle, so I am very much hoping not to see any EWM before Thursday.  Am trying to take it easy but overdid it yesterday when we were visiting relatives and ended up with headache, also I can't help feeling rather down at the moment, probably "time of the month".  Here's hoping


----------



## 2Flowergirl

Hi Ladies,

Well I'm very pleased to confirm my       

Some more spotting today but the Beta level was 270 so feeling more positive - thanks Natasha for reassurance on spotting!  

I hope everything goes well and we will see at least one heartbeat   on the first scan in a couple of weeks ....

Good luck to everyone on their next cycle and those currently pregnant!!!!       
xxx


----------



## Lucky Brumbar

Congrats Flowergirl!!!!!! I'm sooo happy for you!!!!!
EC on Saturday for me!!!!
xxx


----------



## suesunday

Hey! Amazing 2Flowergirl! Many congratulations! You must be chuffed!   Very good to hear of such success! Can I be nosy again and ask how many eggs and what sort of quality and all that stuff? 

Buffy - sounds good to me. Fingers crossed it goes how you want.      I am with you on Create feeling safe - and like you say, it does sometimes take quite a few goes, and I did know that when I started. Have rung the ARGC but I'll just go for a consultation and see how I feel about it then.    And I will have my follow up with Geeta and see what she says. I have a pile of Qs this time! 

Good luck for Sat Brumbar! Do you know how the follies are doing? You'll see from my earlier post that I did feel EC last time, but not the first time. Not that it was really painful or anything, just uncomfortable. Didn't stop the sedated me moaning and whining though! 

Lulu - how are you doing? Where are you now? 2ww? 

Happy Election Night everyone! So exciting! 

Sue xx


----------



## lulumead

Great news Flowergirl...its good to hear of positives to keep us all going    


How are the babies coming along CWSG & Natasha...hope I haven't missed any??


I feel like we need a list to refer to with where everyone is at!


Buffy: are you off and running now??


Brumbar: hope all goes well on saturday and you are nicely sedated....I love that bit   


Sue: how you feeling??


Manda, Luce & Lousie: hope all good with you.


Annabel: Have you moved to edinburgh now? I spent many summers there working the festival, I loved it.    How you feeling?


Crikey, hope I haven't missed anyone!


AFM: day 1 today so here we go again...am now on super low dose of puregon and lots of scans to check I don't go follicle crazy. Am not feeling very positive...feel quite jaded, be so nice to just be having sex - although who knows I might have the same issues.   
Also have a new boss who is rubbish so really want to get pregnant soon so I can leave work for a bit!!


Just switched onto the channel 4 election show, although I am feeling quite scared about the result. Conservative government really not good for my line of work would be pretty gutted if they got in....ooohhhh maybe we can't discuss politics on here   
Anyway should be interesting....


xx to all


----------



## suesunday

Oh, Lulu, I'm sorry, I totally forgot about your overenthusiastic follies. That was a stupid q by me.      

BBC saying hung parliament with just short Tory minority. 1992 exit polls underestimated the Tory vote though, so I suspect that the Tories will end up with a small majority, or just enough with some ulster unionists of some sort. So exciting! But I have to go to bed... Need to be up early.    Such a shame. I love election night. It's the World Cup for geeks.


----------



## lulumead

not at all stupid Sue, don't worry at all...it's really hard to keep track with everyone!! Thankfully last two weeks have gone quickly although mainly because I have kept myself really busy and have now exhausted myself!
All those follies releasing progesterone have made me feel a bit yuck too.

xx


----------



## 2Flowergirl

Hi,


Brumbar - Good luck with Ec on Saturday!   


Suesunday - I had 14 follicles, 8 Eggs Collected, 5 Eggs suitable for ICSI and 4 Eggs Fertilised.  2 x 4 cell Grade 1 Embryos Transferred.


Lulumead - Good luck with the next cycle!   


AFM - Went back to Create yesterday for scan and repeat blood test as I am having quite a bit of pain and spotting still.  Levels over 800 hcg, so more than doubled and 1 sac seen on scan.  I'm praying    all will be ok as still spotting quite a bit and I feel quite ill at the moment.  Really hard to live in limbo as we were so excited but now have to hold our breath until the scan in 2 weeks for heartbeat and to definitely make sure not ectopic due to pain and bleeding   . 


xxx


xxx


----------



## suesunday

Wishing you all the best 2Flowergirl - I'm sure it'll be fine. Everything crossed and take it easy - it must be difficult if you're in pain but do try! Read some silly magazines and watch silly TV (or even the election coverage if it's your thing). xx


----------



## Buffy68

Hello girls, enjoying the election coverage?  This must be the most interesting election I remember.

Flowergirl - congratulations on your pregnancy!  I am sorry to hear about your pain and spotting although I think these things do happen to quite a lot of women early on.  Surely they would have spotted if the pregnancy was ectopic when they did the scan and saw the sac?

Lulu - how is your cycle going?  I was at CH on Thursday morning, were you there as well, I saw a couple of other ladies?

Sue - when is your follow-up with Geeta?

AFM: I have had two scans and everything is going well so far.  One follicle at 10mm today (day 7) and triple layer in uterus.  Will start injections tomorrow to stop premature LH surge.  I am back in for another scan on Monday.


----------



## lulumead

Good news on follie and lining Buffy   


I'm in for my first scan on Tuesday which is day 6.....trying to muster up some positive thoughts. Finding it a bit hard. Although my lovely friend has just given me some 4 leaf clovers to grow for luck   


xx


----------



## 2Flowergirl

Hi ladies,


Just a quick one as I have had a rough couple of days...


Buffy - Good luck with folies    


Suesunday  Thanks for wishes   


Lulumead -    For you first scan   


I went to hospital yesterday and saw a private consultant as I was in so much pain I could barely get out of bed and was really starting to worry.  Had an examination and been told to rest as it could go 50/50 at the moment.  The consultant said my Beta numbers were encouraging and ectopic unlikely but can't rule it out at this stage as it is still very early days, apparently I will need to be monitored for a while and he wants me to have another scan next week.....especially as only one gestational sac was seen on the scan on Thursday. 


Also, spoke to Create and they have advised me to go back for another scan and blood test on Monday with them as I lost quite a bit of blood yesterday. I think I will wait until then and then decide if I need to go back to the consultant at this stage. Both Create and the consultant have told me if bleeding gets very heavy and more pain then to go to A&E   .


At the moment I'm in limbo land as the pain yesterday was horrendous ...not so bad today though. Praying all be ok    


Good luck    
xxx


----------



## Buffy68

Flowergirl -      you poor thing!  At least you can take encouragement from your Beta numbers and the pain lessening today.  I    this bleeding and pain passes and leaves you with a healthy sac.     I will be at CH tomorrow for a scan at 11.00, if you are going in around this time and feel like it do say hello.  Meanwhile try and stay as relaxed as possible, as being stressed will only make pain worse.  I know, easier said then done.

Lulu - all the best for the scan on Tuesday!    Don't worry about negative thinking; since Annabel told me about how she felt negative about the cycle she fell pregnant in I've realised your negative thoughts don't really tell you anything about the eventual outcome.  Anyway, the first week of a cycle one tends to feel more down because of low hormones.

Hope everyone else is well and enjoying the weekend.
Buffy


----------



## Toffee Girl

Hello Ladies

I hope you don't mind but I just need a quick idiot's guide to Create's idea of mild stim IVF.  

I am just about to start my 9th treatment cycle (have immune issues, and recovering from an infected womb that turned out to be caused by latent Chlamydia which I have been treated for), and I was advised by Dr Abatzi at Serum in Athens that as I am 41 I could really benefit from doing a mild cycle.  I am currently with Dr Gorgy becuase of my immunes history and am about to go into bat tomorrow morning to try and persuade him to do 'mild' for me (last cycle with him I hit 600ius every day!).  

If someone could kindly just give me a quick summary of the range of drug dosing that gets talked about in a mild cycle, and any other differences between mild and conventional (apart from down regging, which I don't do anyway) that are key to know about, I would be very grateful.  How critical is the Doppler scanning do  you think?

Thanks in advance

Toffee Girl


----------



## Lucky Brumbar

Hi Ladies!
Toffee Girl- my understanding is that it's just lower doses ...but I don't know much about anything else so  I'll let the other girls say more. I took 9 x 150 gonal f from day 2, 4x cetrotide 0.25 , 10000 iu pregnyl....

Flowergirl - fingers x-hun!!!!!

Lulu- good luck on Tuesday!

Buffy- great  news on follie and lining !
Sue, Annabel - how are you doing?

...EC went fine ...9eggs collected. We had to have ICSI ( MF - 4% morphology) Maria called this morning- only 5 were mature and 3 fertilized- - hope they grow nice and strong:-( I,m having a day 3 transfer on Tuesday! 
any idea how long after transfer is the test?


----------



## SusieB20

Flowergirl - keeping everything crossed for you that the scan goes okay today    

Toffee Girl - welcome to the thread - as brumbar said it's mostly about lower dosages of the stimming drugs - I was only on 150 of menopur each day (seems most people were on gonal f but I wasn't for some reason!). Some people are on higher dosages and I think the decision is made after the initial scan and consultation with Geeta. 

brumbar - best of luck for tomorrow    

Sue - so sorry it didn't work out this time - I saw that you were interested in immune testing etc so I'll pm you the details of who I saw

Buffy and Lulu - good luck for your cycles!!

Hello to everyone else, hope all is well

xxx


----------



## SusieB20

Brumbar - meant to say that you usually test 2 weeks from the egg collection date (that's for the blood test - don't know if you have to wait longer if you're doing a urine test)


----------



## NatashaM

Hi All,

Flowergirl - You poor thing. So sorry for all the pain and stress and feeling in limbo. I know what you are going through, as I thought so many times I was losing my pregnancy. Do take heart that both Annabel and I had a lot of bleeding and she's still pregnant and I have my little boy. We are all holding you and your bean in our thoughts.

Toffee girl - I was on 112.5 iu of Gonal f to start with, rising to 125 later in the cycle. I got 4 good eggs which all fertilised and made grade 1 embryos.

Lulu - good luck tomorrow.

Buffy - Glad all is going well with you.

Brumbar - official test day is 2 weeks after transfer but I tested one week after and got a faint positive, and then did a clearblue digital test a couple of days after that and it said "pregnant 1-2 weeks". Then I went and paid for the official blood test because I wanted to know the HCG levels were ok.

Hope you all had good weekends and hi to anyone I didn't mention by name.

N x


----------



## 2Flowergirl

Hi Ladies,


Thanks for all your kind words. I'm sorry to have to post this but I bled for most of the weekend and we have sadly lost our much wanted baby   at a very early stage, which was confirmed by a scan today.


I just want to wish everyone the best of luck for the future     and I'm sure there will be lots of Create babies on here soon!




xxx


----------



## lulumead

oh flowergirl I'm so sorry to hear that     


take care of yourself.
xxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## annabell99

Hi all!

Flowergirl - I am so so sorry for you      you must be devastated. Look after yourself, lots of thoughts and prayers for you and your DH.

Toffee girl- I was on 112.5 iu of Gonal F for my mild cycle, I got 8 eggs but only 2 fertilised. I think the doppler scanning is more critical for natural  cycles because it shows if there is good blood flow to the follicle, I think this is less critical if you have more than one follicle, but I could be wrong? 

Natasha-  so funny that you also disagreed with the Prof about the gender of the baby! I expect he will turn out to be right with mine as he was with Alexander! Really sorry to hear about Alexander's rash and anemia, that must have been a nasty scare   

Susie- good to hear from you! I hope all is going well! 
Brumbar- good luck for  tomorrow!    As I think  people have said, the blood test at Create is 14 days after egg collection. You can do urine tests at home  but you have to wait 10-14 days after your trigger injection otherwise it can give a false positive. Also it can take longer for hcg to show up in urine so the blood test is more definitive, but it is a pretty stressful experience as you don't get the results straight away, they phone you in the evening.

Buffy- Good to hear that my worrying has been helpful for others    . Seriously I think it does show that you don't have to be calm or positive to get a happy result! I    your scan today goes well, it sounds as if everything is looking great so far! My certainty (or not, now the prof has decreed otherwise!) about the gender of the  baby was due to only ever thinking about it as one gender right from ET. I still can't get my head around it probably being the other sort! As regards pregnancy symptoms, I really haven't had any! The only things I have noticed are weeing a lot in the night (a real nuisance) and feeling sick/exhausted if I get too hungry. But no morning sickness or anything dramatic at all. The cat is a lot better thank you, he apparantly has Irritable Bowel (didn't know cats could get that!) and has had steriod injections which seem to have helped a lot.

Lulu- Good luck for tomorrow!    As Buffy said, my experience proves you don't have to be feeling positive, but I know it takes so much energy just to keep going with it, and I think your determination and resilience is amazing. Haven't quite moved to Edinburgh yet, going in the next month or so. I am getting quite excited as it seems like such a lovely place, but it's not easy to leave my nice comfortable home here!

Sue- I love elections too, I completely embarrassed DH by shaking with excitement at the polling station - must be a super-geek   . We had consultations at a couple of other clinics  before we discovered Create and found them very aggressive and very hostile to the idea of keeping things as natural as possible. I  hope you have a better experience, I can understand you thinking you want to be sure you have given it the best shot. I wanted to do the same after our second BFN but DH thought better to stick with what we knew, luckily it worked. I hope it works for you whatever you decide    Thanks for the info on Edinburgh- I'm not keen on the cold but apart from that it seems lovely. And lucky you with your DH- I think the accent is gorgeous!! BIG knitting news, I have finally finished my blanket and was so chuffed that I went on to do a hat in only 2 days. I am a bit daunted by the patterns for coats but I think I will try one next.

Lots of love to all, apologies to anyone I may have missed

xx


----------



## lulumead

Brumbar...good news about embies....I'll think of you having them popped in when I'm having my scan tomorrow.


Buffy: how was your scan? When you heading in for EC?


Going to be a few of us crossing over on the 2WW I think...although if all ok I don't think my sperms being whacked up (thats a medical term   ) will happen until early/mid next week.


xx


----------



## suesunday

2Flowergirl - I'm so so sorry. I'm totally gutted for you. I know it's not long in some people's eyes, but you were pregnant and you can't help feeling attached already. And sad about the baby you would have had. I'm so sorry. I don't know if you find it helpful or irritating to see the positives attached to this - but it is good that you got pregnant. Lots of people told me that Mother Nature is a great editor, and she has to take those babies who just wouldn't have made it - and better earlier than later. I found it consoling when I had those thoughts, but I wanted to kill people who pointed it out to me glibly. I don't mean any of it glibly - I know it really hurts.  

Buffy - continues to sound good! Everything crossed! I'm seeing Geeta this week - Thursday - as it goes. Not expecting any particular insight.

Toffeegirl - a very warm welcome! I took 225 and 150 gonal f alternating day by day last time.

Susie - thanks v much. I've pmed you back!

Annabell! A hat and a blanket! You've put me to shame. I finished what I thought would be a lovely pure silk pale yellow (very this season) t-shirt top. It was just too big for me when it was done! But, thank Merciful Jesus, it fits my mum perfectly and looks lovely on her. Phew. She was chuffed with it, and I don't feel gutted about it.

And the election gets more and more exciting! Gosh - today was astonishing.

Lulu - I'm sure tomorrow will go well. I'll do your positive thinking for you, if you can't be bothered: _I think its going brilliantly already, and this squirt will be full of happy boy juice that'll do the business for once and for all.  _

And if that doesn't convince you, I read a study that showed those women who did things like praying or made other mental effort during their ivf cycles did worse than those who didn't. So, don't worry about positive thinking. You're allowed to watch tv and ignore it.

Love to anyone I've missed
xxx


----------



## Toffee Girl

Dear Ladies

Thanks very much for the welcome and the snapshot of what 'mild' means.  I shall plough on and give it a go, but probably with Dr Abatzi in Athens.  I hop you don't mind if I pop in now and then with the odd question?  If anyone is looking into the immunes side of things and needs some help, feel free to PM me

Toffee Girl xx


----------



## SusieB20

Flowergirl, just wanted to say how very sorry I was to hear the news. Sending you lots of


----------



## lulumead

hello all,


Feeling a bit low as now have cyst from the overstimulated follies....so another month cancelled. So now just have to cross fingers that it disappears otherwise I have to go on the Pill for a couple of months....oh the irony of that on so many levels!!!!


Rather embarrassingly burst into tears in front of the doc...he was too nice so it made me cry    


Am beginning to feel like I'm being told something!! as everytime there seems to be something that isn't quite right - but I know I am being melodramatic.  Very glad of having day off as am home and going to spend the afternoon feeling a bit sorry for myself so hopefully I will perk up tomorrow.


Sorry to moan on...I know compared to other people's situation this is very minor. I think its all coupled with being fed up about being on my own and my work situation being stressful.


Hope ET went well Brumbar.


And flowergirl    


xx


----------



## annabell99

Lulu-

I'm sorry to hear that you have had to cancel the cycle. That must be so infuriating! I    that the cyst will clear up by itself, I have read that cysts often go when AF arrives. Could acupuncture help? Don't worry about crying in front of the doctor, I think we have probably all done that! I hope you get yourself loads of treats this afternoon & have a nice glass of wine tonight   .

Brumbar- I hope ET went well!

Flowergirl- thinking of you and sending loads of    

Lots of love to all

xx


----------



## Lucky Brumbar

Ladies, apologies about spelling mistakes - typing on my phone

Flowergirl!- soooooooo gutted for you hun! really really sorry....

Lulu - what a pain!!!!!!!... what dose were you on?I also had a cyst by they continued - first they tought its an endometrioma then it appeared to be a lutheal cyst filled with blood- I still don't know what it was  to be honest, but they still went ahead with it!!!

Sue- hope you get some insight on Thursday!

Buffy-  fingers x-ed!

Annabell- knitting!!!!? well done you!!!! I wish I could!

Transfer went Ok- Geeta did it for me, she was really nice!
we had a day 3 transfer - 2 grade 1 embies on board 1x 4 cell and 1x 8cell (and compacting) . should I be worried about the 4cell embie? is this normal on day 3?

  Our third embie arrested   

Test will be done on the 22nd of May, but I'm planning on using the 10iu pregnancy strips to monitor hcg ... from now on... the line was much lighter than the control  on Saturday... It was the first time in my life I've seen the two lines on my own test, and i just sat there looking at them for ages wishing it was  12dpt and it is a real BFP!!!!

fingers x-ed now and love to anyone I've missed
xxx


----------



## Buffy68

Hello girls - it seems we have a new Prime Minister and a coalition for the first time in our lifetimes.  Exciting, huh?

Brumbar - best wishes and    for your 2WW.  I'm hardly an expert on embryos but from the little I have heard you can't tell too much from how many cells they have and what grade they are early on.  I think that's why Create put them back in fairly quickly now.  It's what happens over the next few days that's important.  Let us know how your hcg tests go, that sounds really interesting.

Lulu -    I feel for you, having had a few cancelled cycles myself and having also had a cyst getting in the way.  Most cysts do go away within 2 or 3 cycles although I still have a small one which hasn't changed in about a year and which looks just like a follicle.  How big is yours?  Can't you do a couple of natural cycles whilst you're waiting for it to go down?  You know, the stress from your work situation won't be helping, is there anything you can do to improve this?

Toffee girl - best of luck with your mild cycles!

Annabell - you sound more relaxed from the tone of your message so I hope you are feeling tranquil and enjoying your pregnancy now.  You must have a lot of patience to do all that knitting.  I hope the move to Edinburgh goes well and you find a lovely home for your family   

Flowergirl - I am so sorry to hear your news.    I can only imagine how disappointing this must be, not to mention traumatic emotionally and physically.  I hope you can take some time out to do a little healing on all levels.  However, don't lose sight of how well you did to get pregnant in the first place, especially as I think this was your first cycle?  

Best wishes to all the other regulars, it's good to hear from you.

AFM I have been scanned yesterday, today and going back for more tomorrow!  Currently the follicle is about 14.5mm so likely EC on Friday.  I must admit I am getting a bit stressed and tired from going backwards and forwards to the clinic (it's about 1 hour's drive) whilst also working and doing other chores.  I can't help thinking I could have taken it easier since my AF and given the egg and follicle a better chance.  If I have to do another cycle I'm going to take 2 weeks out and do nothing but the cycle.  (My dh says I'm mad to think about the next cycle whilst this one is still going on, but that's a worrier for you, trying to cover all the bases!)


----------



## NatashaM

Hi,

Flowergirl - I am so sorry for your loss. I was so hopeful that it was just normal spotting. Anything I say will sound glib at the moment but at least you know you *can* get pregnant. 

You have every right to mourn even though it was an early miscarriage. You mourn your hopes and plans for the baby that would have been. It is so hard.   I hope once you've taken some time to deal with this disappointment you will try again and be successful.

Lulu - I am so sorry that you've had another cycle cancelled. This sucks. I would have cried too. x

Brumbar - Glad you got your embryos transferred. Good luck staying sane for the two week wait. We'll be hoping very hard for a positive for you (a real positive, not a trigger injection hangover!). 4 cells is a bit slow to divide, to be honest I wouldn't hold out that much hope for that one but you have the 8 cell one which is perfect. Mine were 7 and 3 cells (after thawing - they'd both been 8 cells when they froze them but you can lose cells in the defrosting process) and although they replaced the 3 cell one anyway, they pretty much said they didn't hold out much hope for it. But you never know, you'll probably end up with twins now I've said that.

Buffy - I always thought about the next cycle too. When I was having the scans leading up to having the frozen ones transferred I was trying to plan in which month I'd have my next fresh cycle. It sounds like things are going well for you this time - don't worry about being stressed - I was in a state of near panic during the successful one, trying to get to the scans without being late for work as I hadn't even told my boss I was doing it and then I got lumbered with writing a huge defence of a decision I'd made for our regulators while on the two week wait. I basically gave up hope at that point. But lo and behold...

Suesunday - I hope you are ok. You're always so bright and positive and supportive of others - you are really lovely.

Annabell - Hope all is well with you. 

AFM - We all have slight colds, but they are getting better. Today I went up to town to see old workmates and meet some friends for lunch. One had had an ectopic pregnancy and lost a tube last year but she announced she's now 15 weeks pregnant which is brilliant news. Alexander has his second lot of immunisations on Thursday which I am not looking forward to. He's growing well and since the scare has been fine touch wood and is taking his iron medicine well now.

I now know of two couples who are going to Create because of my recommendation - I should get a finders fee!

Love to all
N x


----------



## mangoeater

Hi,
I'm back after a long while, but been keeping up as best I can.

Flower, so sorry to hear about your loss. It's further than I ever got, but I know thats not a consolation right now. It must have been both confusing and scary. But thankfully you yourself are okay right now, and can nourish yourself for whatever comes next.

Lulu, also feeling for you, as I've had similar situations. It's never easy, its such a roller coaster of hope, then disappointment. And anger. Cysts do tend to clear up, and I do feel acupuncture helps.

Brumbar, good luck w your 2ww.

Toffeegirl, low-stim can mean even as low as 75iu menopur or gonal-f etc (I think thats the lowest each ampule comes) per day. Or, it can also mean you start stimming drugs a few days later, based on foll growth, as opposed to right away.

I've just had to abandon another cycle (this time it was really abandoned, as opposed to the confusing situation last time). Several great follies, growing naturally, one especially; all very hopeful. Then growth slowed down, but still a bit hopeful, that maybe my follies just grow slowly. Then blood test showed premature LH surge, but was told follies would never actually ovulate, as they weren't big enough; so would just be absorbed by body. So had to abandon. Very gutted right now.  Esp as each abandoned cycle, or each month I cant pursue a cycle because of cysts or something, the months tick by, getting older. Its esp hard because when the drs are hopeful, you are too. Then its such a surprise when it isnt so.

Just had some chocolate...


----------



## LEECOWDEN

Hi everyone, 

sorry I haven't posted for a while - I have been lurking - but my Grandma died suddenly a couple of weeks ago - and it has been quite hard this end.

Don't forget I am here as not just a past patient of create but also a link between you and create if you need any questions answering that you think will be of help to others to know the answer to. I am helping create with their patient support things - e.g. forum, ******** and blog.

Still hoping to do a meet / get together at some point.

To all those who have had abandoned cycles and BFN I am so sorry for you. Don't blame you on the chocolate mangoeater (and good to see you back on the board!)

Brumbar - good luck with the 2ww, and Buffy68 good luck with transfer.

Sorry for not doing more personals - but promise to post more often now.

By the way I got the official on the HFEA refund fee business back from Create.If you abandon the cycle before Egg collection - before the egg and sperm come together then a refund of HFEA fee is due.

Leex


----------



## annabell99

Hi All!

Just a quick note to say Buffy I hope EC went well today   

Lots of love to everyone 

xx


----------



## lulumead

Hello lovely ladies,


Hope everyone is doing ok.


Lee, sorry to hear about your grandma, always sad and especially hard when very sudden   


Flower: hope you are doing ok


Annabell - how are you?


Buffy: hope you are resting up ready to have a little embie popped back....will that be tomorrow?


Brumbar: surviving the 2WW, are you going     yet?


Mangoeater: sending you lots of   , abandoning a cycle is so frustrating and the fact that you still have to pay for some of the treatment really just adds insult to injury. Can you go again soon?


Natasha: lovely to hear about Alexander and how he is coming on...I love hearing about babies and knowing it is all possible 


Sue: anything useful come from your consultation?


toffeegirl: I was on 150, then 225 then 300 of gonal F for my IVF protocols....and had 7/3/10 eggs  which seems all rather random.  I just liked the fact that you didn't down reg and took much less drugs overall.  Have you started now?


SusieB: hope all good with you too.


CWSG: how you?


crikey, hope I haven't missed anyone out!


AFM, am feeling a little better although did burst into tears on my friend (male!) on thursday night...not sure he knew what to do but hey, it needed to come out!  Off to Holland next weekend to see my sister and nephew so that will be nice, then one more weekend and hopefully cyst will have gone, although am preparing myself for it still to be there next cycle.  Emailing a nice man on eharmony, who is a bit keen, so I fessed up to what i was doing, as its pretty hard to know when to bring that up. He was very nice about it, found it a bit tricky, but decided to keep emailing and is still keen to meet up.  I'm not convinced, although he seems nice but very different from me and men I normally go for. I find it a bit odd that he has said he fancies me from my picture and chatting via email     He's never met me....its odd isn't it!  You can think someone seems nice but how can you say you fancy them...you don't know them. Hey ho....will have to grill him a bit more and then decide if we should meet up.  Any of you know any nice single men


xx


----------



## Meesha

Hello Everyone,

I am a newbee at Create. Hope you don't mind me joining. 

I just had an stimulated IVF (short protocol with 300 iu gonal-f) with create. Having had my first ever IVF cancelled before EC at  CRGH (due to not enough follicles), I  was quite pleased that I managed to produce 3 fertilised eggs  (grade 2 / 4 cells), 2 of which Geeta did ET for me (I did not ask though). Sadly it was my OTD yesterday and they confirmed that it's BFN. I am absolutely gutted. Geeta told me throughout the treatment that there is no reason why I shouldn't be pregnant, having looked at my blood tests etc. Maybe it gave me false sense that I will get BFP. I must have raised my hope too high.

Now that its BFN, I know I have to look forward, but I can't help thinking about what might have caused BNP this time. I know this is very negative of me (typical!), but thinking back, I had some doubts about the way Create operate. 

1. Q 1: They told me to have full bladder on the day of ET, which I thought was a requirement for ultrasound scanning, however Geeta never used the u/s and finished my ET. I was so surprised that she did not use it that I asked her straight after she did ET while I was still lying, why she did not use it. She said "I don't need to use it." with such confidence, so I said 'OK'. Then she said to me "I can sca you now if you want?" which I thought was quite pointless because whole point of using u/s is to be able to see whether eggs are deposited at the right place. I said 'No, that's ok', but this has been stuck in my mind  since ET. So my question is, is it a normal practice that create don' t use u/s for ET? What about other clinic? I can't help thinking what if it was other doctors (such as Dr Theodou who did my EC). Would he have not used u/s too? Suppose create has a policy not using u/s, how they know that eggs are deposited or not

2. Q 2: I had 3 fertilised eggs, 2 of which I had been transgerred and 1 of which the embryorologist didn't mention what grade it was, but she simply said we will discard it this time. I didn't think about it that much as it was my ET day, but now I am thinking why it couldn't be able to be frozen? Is it because only 1 egg is not cost effective?

These are the my ?? at the moment and I am totally in this vicious "what if" mode. Sorry for my negative attitude ladies, but I would appreciate your opinions on my questions above. This is my first IVF, so I have less knowledge about the whole process compared to you all. Therefore your views are highly appreciated.

Thank you very much for taking time to read my post.

Take care to all
xx


----------



## suesunday

Ladies! Hallo all! Am about to meet up with friends, where there will be no discussion of this stuff. But there's the constant threat of someone announcing they're pregnant. My treatment is all secret because hubbie wants it that way - so going to get it all out now with you lovely lot. 

Lulu - poor sausage! I really feel for you. We're proper grumps together I think.    I have come out in sympathy with a breast cyst - so now we match (sort of). But at least it doesn't get in the way of potential baby making - so nowhere near as annoying as yours. Hope yours does go down. Good news about the old internet dating. Meet up soon - all my chums who did it found the email stuff quite frustrating and a bit misleading sometimes. As you say, I think at least for women, you can't know until you meet up. And how you chat in email isn't necessarily how you chat in real life. I don't think I have any nice single boy mates sadly. The few people at work aren't all that. But then where I work is wall to wall geeks, so that was always unlikely... (NB from a Rules perspective, I wouldn't tell them anything about the old squirting. Mystery, Lulu, mystery! Buy the book this weekend! Honestly. This is something I actually know about.    Listen to me!    ) 

Buffy - hope it went well. Don't beat yourself up too much about being tired. I went for my first scan with prof campbell after one of the worst months of the year at work - and all my insides were lovely. So doesn't make that much difference to the physical readiness I reckon. (And I keep thinking about all those women at ARGC who have to be there at 7:30 every morning for bloods and they get pregnant despite that! Amazing! I think that would actually kill me, nevermind getting me pregnant.) When does it go back in a natural cycle? Pretty soon I guess? 

Mangoeater - oh, god, I'm so sorry. The whole thing about time - it's sickening isn't it? I can feel it right in my stomach for you. You poor creature. I know it's not much consolation, but from this board, it seems like this happens a lot to everyone, regardless of age. You'll nail it in another round.    

Thanks Natasha - I appreciate that so much. Am still struggling a bit. Dr Nargund suggested counselling about two minutes into the follow up! So I guess it shows on my face! (Although no bugger at work seems to have eyes...) Very good to hear Alexander (I was going to write Alex - how much trouble would I have been in btw?  ) is doing so well. 

Brumbar -that sounds very good to me - the 1 grade 8 cell sounds like a winner! Do it for the team!   

And Meesha - very warm welcome! It was good you got good sounding embryos - so don't despair utterly. The first round is a learning round at most clinics, another reason to not be despondent. I think the bladder isn't just for ultrasound, but to straighten out the path to the womb - so was useful either way. And from my reading about the ARGC (can anyone tell I've been looking them up yet?  ) they don't use ultrasound to place embryos either, and they have a v high hit rate, so don't worry about that too much. I would ask what state your third egg was in at your follow up with Dr Nargund - but it may well just simply have been not good enough to freeze. 

Lee - sorry to hear about your Gran. Can be very tough, can't it? I hated seeing my parents upset most of all. 

I did have my follow up, and Dr Nargund seemed upset for me - I thought that was lovely. She, to my surprise, suggested what I think are the first level immune tests and blood clotting tests, and although with a strong caveat, said that I could have NK cells tested too. She said after two miscarriages and two implantation failures, it was time to stop and look at something else. I didn't even get a chance to ask about immunes myself! Also suggested a hysteroscopy - Lulu, you had one or two of these right? Bad I recall? I'll do it all though. Am going to the Lister for a consultation on Friday too. I'll just see what they say, and see what I make of it. Am feeling pretty miserable in patches, keep thinking I'm going to cry at work when anyone offers a robust challenge! Which would be a pretty effective rebuttal. I'll keep it stored up for maximum shaming of those I like least... 

Susie and Ambition - hope you're doing okay. Susie - I might pm you later for some advice! 

Love to anyone I've missed. 
xxx


----------



## Buffy68

Hello everyone

Thanks for the well wishes.  Sadly although there was an egg it was too immature to use.    I now have this image of it wanting to go down the pub and get drunk rather than make a serious commitment to fertilisation. Oh well...  No clear reason they can give as to why.  Dr Theodou (who did EC) had a chat with me and said it doesn't mean we won't ever get a good egg but the more often this happens the more likely it is to happen.  I was disappointed but not too gutted as this was the first cycle I have done since being ill over so many months and I was sort of thinking of it as a dress rehearsal.  I have done a little research and from my understanding the egg's receptivity to hormones can be impaired as much as 4 months before ovulation.  Anyway, I will miss the next cycle as we are off on holiday (hurrah) but may try the next one if I still feel fit.  By that time I will have put over 3 months between me and my sick days.  Another thing that happened was that Dr Theodou decided to try to aspirate my cyst so I am keeping everything crossed it doesn't reappear as this would be a real blessing.  So hopefully some good will come out of the procedure.  BTW I had some fluid showing after the EC and cyst aspiration so they put me on a drip for one hour (to make sure I didn't get dehydrated) then Dr T rescanned me and eveything was fine.  It was done as a precaution but it just underlined for me that Create really do look after your health.

That's enough of me for now.

Sue - I know what you mean about keeping it secret, we are the same.  I am sorry to hear about your breast cyst.  Is there any treatment or will it go away on its own?  Are you going to have counselling?  It's good that Dr Nargund has some ideas for what you should try next, are you going to have the tests?

Meesha - nice to meet you.  You really shouldn't beat yourself or the clinic up because it didn't work first time!  

Lulu -    take it easy and give your ovaries chance to recover.  Having a break of a couple of cycles won't make any difference and maybe you can get some "loving" in!  I think men are very visual so I am sure he can tell if he fancies you from your photo!!  It's women who are a bit more subtle LOL.

Annabel - thanks for thinking of me!  Hope all is well with you and the marathon knitting.

Lee - sorry to hear about your grandmother   .  Thanks for the info re the refund, I will raise this next time as I always seem to lose it even when the cycle is abandoned before EC.

Mangoeater - sorry about your cancelled cycle    I hear you on the chocolate!  We're not having a very good month as a group are we?

Natasha - so glad to hear all is well with Alexander!  I can't help thinking worrying about an actual baby must be 100x worse than worrying about your eggs.

Brumbar - no pressure, but we could really do with some good news on this thread!


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## lulumead

Hello all,


Buffy: really sorry to hear egg was too immature...a drink sounds like a good idea!  Dr T is the one who made me cry, he is very kind and thorough I think.  And I am sure being poorly for a long time does effect you so trying again after holidays sounds like a good plan.  Fingers crossed cyst has gone now too, so at least you don't have to worry about that next time.


Sue: I agree it is really lovely that Geeta seems to genuinely care about her patients, which is why I feel like they really want it to work.  Its just frustrating when it doesn't and there doesn't seem to be any reason, everytime I have been told that they were surprised I didn't get pregnant - nice but not helpful.  After my 3rd go she sent me for some blood tests...I think they were basic clotting based immune ones...anti-phollisads...or something like that...I know I have that wrong but hopefully its the same thing you have been told to do.  My GP sent me for them.
I had a hysteroscopy which again I had done on NHS but took about 2/3 months wait, so you could have it done privately. It was really fine, I enjoyed seeing my womb on camera     It was the HSG (tube test) which was awful.  So basically after my 3rd failure I had everything looked at and all was ok.  I asked Dr T about immunes and he was very interesting in that he said that its not really proven yet, its moving in the right direction but that they are moving towards testing a biopsy from the womb rather than blood tests, he said blood tests will probably always show up something and that you can end up spending loads of money on treatment which has no effect!  Have you had your thyroid tested....my ex colleague who has bad endo, surgery on this a couple of times was told about a 3% chance of natural pregnancy, found out she had a thyroid problem, took some medicine and pregnant within a couple of months!!!  Worth checking.
We are cyst sisters at the moment....lets hope they both go soon    am also your crying buddy as I am quite    at the moment. I am blaming the cyst!   


Meesha:  hello   .  Full bladder is in order to make a clear passage to the womb, I have had this at all ET and IUI's....my theory is that they do that really so that you have to concentrate so much on the fact that you need to pee that you aren't focused on what they are doing   
On my ET I have has ultrasound but on my tummy, but I suspect Geeta is super experienced so knows exactly what she is doing so maybe doesn't use it.  You have to pay extra for her to pop them back so you have had the deluxe treatment. Sending you lots of     for a lovely BFP next time round.  I think its hard as we are told that IVF is the big fix for infertility but the reality is that its still less than 50% likely to happen and more like 30% or less.  I have always had embies left over from my treatment but not once have they been frozen even when they have got to day 5.  I think Create will only freeze if they are absolutely perfect and I am pleased in some ways about this as they could freeze them knowing they won't work, take our money, put us through a FET cycle knowing that it was never viable.  And I suspect some less scrupulous clinics might do this.  You can probably insist that they freeze them regardless of quality and then take the risk....I have thought about whether to do this at some point but the money it costs always stops me! Are you going to go for another cycle soon?    BFN's are always rubbish and hard to deal with.


I'd be really interested to hear what people think about immunes...as part of me feels there might be something in it but equally there are so many people who have all the tests at great cost, do all the immune treatment, time and time again and it makes no difference.  If in 90% of cases it was proving a positive outcome I might be for it....and I know some of you have looked into it further...any thoughts/comments?


Onwards and upwards Create-ers!
xx


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## Lucky Brumbar

Hi Ladies!!!!!


Buffy, sorry to hear the eggie was immature

Lee -  thanks for the info!

lulu...hope the ovaries recover quickly....wrt immunity issues, see if you can do the tests on the NHS and save some cash....it's amazing how much you end up paying at the end...things add  up...
I know a lady who had NKC and had 8 mc :-( she went on some clinical trial - on steroids - and just gave birth to a beautiful baby daughter

Meesha:  hello   ...hope you are feelng better!!!! Geeta did the transfer for me too, and there was a member of staff she was showing the procedure to. Even  if you do an u/s later after the transfer is done ( but when you're still lying there) you can see where the embies have gone as there's some liquid transferred with them. Geeta offered to show, but we didn't bother.

Sue- DH doesn't want me to tell my friends either....:-( we have MF....so I understand hi, bit it is so difficult to keep my mouth shut! how was the consultation at the Lister?

Mangoeater.... sorry cycle was cancelled!:-(

Annabel - how's the knitting?

Natasha- thanks for the info! I have a stash of 10miu strips, 3 FRERs and a ton of other stuff they use on the NHS for pregnant teenagers. Glad baby Alexander is well.

Flowergirl, how are you chick?

hope I didn't miss anyone...

well....I AM GOING CRAZY in the tww! Geeta ordered the blood test for  the 22nd of May- so 14 dpc not transfer.... 7 days to go!!!!! but I think I'll poas on Wednesday or  Thursday....fingers x-ed!


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## suesunday

One of the girls at the meet up was indeed f'ing pregnant with twins. I thought I was going to have a heart attack on the way home. I literally don't know what to do with myself. I feel like I did when Vicky was going to die. I just want to lie on the floor and scream and pound the ground. 

Sorry for being such a grump - but you'll understand better than anyone. I will cheer up and do proper replies tomorrow. xxxx


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## Meesha

Hi lovely ladies,

Thank you very much for your opinions/views on my questions. I was hopelesly down for the past couple of days but I'm beginning to feel better after reading all your kind posts (sobbing again).

Sue - Thank you for your warm welcome and I really appreciate your comment. Yes it has been a huge learning process this time round, so I will take the fact that I manage to get to ET stage more positively, considering the last round was cancelled before EC. I will ask Mrs Nargand about the embryo that was discarded, but may not ask as you are probably right that it was not good enough.

Buffy - Hello. Thank you also for your warm welcome... I think I am ok now thinking forward. So no more beating myself up!

Lulu - Thank you for sharing your experience about ET and full bladder stuff. I was little surpriced that you had a u/s guided ET, so it depends on the doctor I reckon. I would also like to think that Mrs Nargand is super experienced. That is why she said with such confidence that she does not need u/s. I also saw on the price list that I had to pay extra for Mrs Nargand to do ET, but I did not really specify that ET be done by her this time. I suspect that there was no other doctor available due to my ET day fell on Sunday. I wonder if create will charge me for this? I am thinking of doing next time round soon, probably in July/Aug with create again. However, I am a little scared that July/Aug is still too soon. My ovary must has been suffered a lot this time by taking 50 ml buserelin and 300iu of Gonal-f every day. I had suffered from all the side-effects that you see on the literature in the buserelin box, it was a nightmare. So I don't know which protocol I should go for next time. I thought 300 iu fo Gonal-f was quite high for a mild IVF, but Mrs Nargand thought that I would respond well considering my FSH was 7.6 prior to this cycle. I have to admit that I was quite dissapointed that I only had 7 mature follicles, 5 collected, 3 of which fertilised. I am sure that Mrs Nargand will say that she was a bit dissapointed as well when I see her at the next follow-up.

Brumbar - Hi thank you for sharing your experience. Yes it was pointless when she offered to show on u/s afterwards. How was the outcome, if you don't mind me asking of course.

Thank you very much all those who replied to me, I feel much much better now.
I will update you with some more news when I see Mrs Nargand at follow-up.

In the meantime, 
take care 

xx


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## SusieB20

Hello all

Meesha - welcome to the thread and sorry to hear it didn't work out this time for you. Geeta also did my ET, mine was on a Sunday as well and I think she does a lot of the weekend transfers. From what I recall I didn't get charged extra as I didn't specifically ask for her. She didn't do an U/S until after the ET and told me she doesn't want to put extra pressure on the bladder while she's doing the procedure. She did one at the end but that was really so I could take a picture home and the tiny dot that I could see helped me with visualisation during the 2WW

Brumbar - hope you're doing everything you can do stop yourself going nuts during the 2WW - keeping everything crossed for you

Sue - it feels like a real kick in the teeth when friends announce their pregnancies doesn't it? I think I had a least 4 friends get pregnant in a year and each one was harder to take (and then of course I felt guilty for being so bitterly jealous rather than happy for them - god I've put my DH through some very testing moments). Interestingly, out of those 4 friends, I later found out one had suffered 3 miscarriages and the other had tried 2 years to conceive for going for IUI - as we often keep our babymaking troubles and fertility treatment to ourselves you don't know what other people are going through. I say this in retrospect though, I was jealous as hell at the time. It's interesting that Geeta raised immune issues with you as when I read previous threads she was pretty anti. Obviously everyone has to make their own judgement on whether they believe in it or not but for me it feel like pieces of a jigsaw falling into place. Although the tests are expensive, the treatment doesn't always have to be - it cost around £80 for the steriods I was on and a few hundred for the clexane which in the grand scheme of things isn't a huge amount. I think it's when you're talking about ivig and intralipids that the costs start to soar and I have to admit I was reluctant to consider either of them as they're a bit too new and experimental. I don't think it will be the answer for everyone but was worth every penny for us.

Buffy - I'm gutted for you as you'd spent so much time getting yourself healthy and ready for treatment. A month off and a holiday sounds like just what you need (where are you going?) and hopefully your at your next collection they'll find an egg that's fully committed!

Just wanted to give my tuppence on the whole HSG thing - has anyone opted for a HyCoSy instead? This is what I was recommended and as it's done by ultrasound it seems to be a lot less troublesome whilst still achieving the same objective. The procedure is a bit uncomfortable as they put a lot of fluid in your womb to inflate it but I had no pain or bleeding and the only after effect was having to wear a pad of gargantuan proportions for a few hours while the remainder of the fluid came out. Just a thought if people are looking for alternatives.

Hope everyone else is doing okay, had better go now and start my Grand Prix viewing - never thought I'd be a fan but it has me hooked!

Lots of love xxxx


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## Lucky Brumbar

Hi Ladies, hope you are all well!!!!
Just a quick note to say  that my test date was moved from 22nd of May  to the 24th of May as "there is no clinic this Sat and Sunday! " they told me I could go to the labin Harley street, but I won't find out until Monday anyway... so I booked for Monday....
did a HPT this morning 14dp ec...it was negative.... hope I have a late implanter and I'm still in with a chance ....
P.S  no sign of AF, but this may be the progesterone ....temperature on chart still high.
xxx


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## cwsg

Hi 
lulumead - i'm really loving having baby isaac, each day brings new joy. I am sometimes over nervous about things, a bit panicy. I remember someone saying that the worry you have about getting pregnant doesn't go away when you have the child. This is true, i worry about 'what if he got ill or i got ill e.t.c.
i have been a bit ill, have had what may be attacks of gall stones. I'm having an ultasound in two weeks.

Isaac is now 3 months old! He is starting to hold his head up and is beggining to giggle. he knows what a kiss is now, makes a lovely face showing he loves me when i kiss him. he holds my hair and clothers too.

Sorry i can't keep up with all the posts.


cwsg x


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## Lucky Brumbar

well ladies,

a BFN for me... will have a follow up appointment on Friday and will see how it goes and what they have to say. 
I'm also doing some reserch on Lister... 
I can only afford one more cycle, and I'm thinking I'd rather go full blown with higher doses so that we can do blasts....
I wonder what went wrong, but I guess thats what everybody goes through after a failed cycle.... I'm relatively young (32) and had 2x grade 1 embies transferred.....
anyway.... the worse part was that I was  given the bad news on my birthday....not the clinc's fault of course....
oh well! 
lots of luck ladies!!!!


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## pink tulip

Hi All,

I'm gatecrashing your thread but just a quickie question? Do any of you know if I can have IVM treatment at the Create clinic? Do any of you know anything about it?

many Thanks,

Pink Tulip x


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## suesunday

Hallo lovely ladies. Right. I'm starting June now for all of us, so we can kiss goodbye to accursed May, and get on with blessed June, where it's all going to go extremely well.   

Brumbar - that's bad news. I'm sorry to hear that. Let us know how you get on in your follow up. It is really difficult - as I discovered this month. But I guess you've got to remember that the stats, even at your age, are for about 50% pregnancy rates - so we shouldn't be too surprised if it doesn't work first go. Lister was actually lovely - and much more flexible than I had expected. Said that I wouldn't have to go on the pill (part of the way the Lister do their long cycles) and wouldn't take doses much above what I've been doing here. Although, not sure what would be different to here. Anyway, I want to go to see the ARGC before I make any decision.

Buffy - well, sounds like you're already firmly in June! Well done you. What a great attitude. Where are you going on your holiday?

Susie - you're totally on the money about not knowing what other people have been through (now that I'm over the knife in the stomach anguish!). The couple I mentioned have been married for about 10 years and she's having non-identical twins... As our American cousins would say: you do the math. 

Lulu - how's it going? On the immunes thing, the chap at the Lister I saw said that (well, he drew it but I'll convert to numbers) that the reasons you don't get pregnant fall into two categories - the embryo, at approx 90% and receptivity at approx 10%. Ie his view seemed to be to not worry too much about immunes stuff (although they do test for it there with NK cells) because you just need to keep rolling the dice until you get _the_ embryo. Regardless, I'm going to have NK tested - just can't decide which test - depends what I decide to do about where to have the next cycle.

Pink Tulip - I've never seen anything about IVM at Create. I presume you've checked the HFEA website for IVM clinics? Is it Oxford that does it? Read your signature - you've had a rough time of it. A million best wishes to you!  

I did see the counsellor. I found it a bit challenging. Anyone else been? But I'm feeling much better now anyway. Keeping work in check.

Lots of love to everyone else
xx


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## mangoeater

Hi,
Thanks everyone for the consoling wishes -- yes I agree this is not the best month for many of us...

Brumbar, sorry to hear about the BFN.

This is a just a quick note....    But just wanted to echo Sue and Susie's anecdotes about friends with twins. A friend just told me about a mutual close friend who's expecting twins in a few months! Ugh. We know for sure they were not planning on getting pregnant. I can't decide whether to be annoyed that our mutual close friend didn't tell me herself she was pregnant; or whether to respect her for not telling me (she knows about my fertility journey) so I wouldnt feel bad. All the same, happy babymaking news always seems to come at the worst possible time, doesnt it?

But I also guess that for pregnant-via-IVF women, being amongst women who got pregnant easily the old-fashioned way must also be annoying. To hear them talk about how easy it was, or how they were drinking cocktails for the first 3 months, must also make one want to slap them, or cry...   

More later. Time for more chocolate.


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## Lucky Brumbar

Hi All!!!!Quick Q...  actually two
1. I'm planning to ask Geeta about immune testing... or simply putting me on steroids and clexane next
time. I have stage III endo and there is a theory that this is an autoimmune disease....hope she agrees.  
2. how soon can I go for my next cycle? 2 bleeds  would mean end of July... is this correct?
sorry for short post... the boss is behind me 
love to all!


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## NatashaM

Hi All,

Welcome Meesha - I'm sorry your cycle didn't work - I think the other ladies have answered your questions.

Brumbar - So sorry for you too - this hasn't been a good month for the ladies on this thread. ((hugs)). Hope your follow up appointment is not too upsetting for you.

Suesunday - Best of luck for June. You know I just can't wait until you announce your BFP. I didn't see the counsellor at Create but I was having CBT and couples counselling during the time we were ttc and undergoing ivf treatment.

cwsg - it is lovely to hear about baby Isaac, you sould totally n love with him as you should be.

Buffy - so sorry about immature egg. Bah! Have a lovely holiday.

I just want to say to all of you that I admire you so much, that most people don't know how hard and all-consuming it can be, that you should never beat yourselves up about failed cycles, that you do deserve to be parents, that hopefully all of you WILL be parents one day, and that not a day goes by when I don't think of those in the same situation I was in. You don't forget.

Much love to you all (and to your partners - those that have them). 

xx


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## Sunshine42

Hello everyone and all the newbies,

I want to apologise for the long absence, although I have tried to keep up with the posts. Coping with return to work, after effects of the virus and continued sickness means I've just been shattered. 

Anyhow - have been thinking about you all and had fingers crossed for everyone. Buffy - so sorry last cycle didn't work out, lots of good wishes for the next.

Promise to be a more regular contributor from now on.

Enjoy the long weekend everyone.

Sunshine xxx


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## lulumead

hello lovely create-ers   


Sunshine: are you feeling a bit better? you have had quite a rough time, so hopefully you are over the worse now.


Natasha: it always nice to hear of people that have come through the other side...certainly helps me to keep going.


CW: so lovely to here Isaac is doing well.


Brumbar: how did you get on with immunes conversation with Geeta?


We're nearly in June yippeee....this is going to be a good month everyone     


Sue & mangoeater: are you doing cycles this month?  Anyone else?


hello to annabel, flowergirl, Pink tulip, meesha, Lee, SusieB, ambition and Buffy...hope I didn't miss anyone out...apologies if I did.   


AFM: day 24 so waiting for AF to arrive early next week so I can be scanned to see if the dreaded cyst has gone and I can get cracking again.  Am preparing myself that it will still be there, and I might have to take the Pill    oh well...could be worse.


xx


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## Buffy68

Hello everyone

I'm in France at the moment and doing lots of interesting things to take my mind off my fertility LOL.

Lulu -    all the best for your next scan and hope the cyst has pushed off.  How big was it last time?

Sunshine - it's good to hear from you again, and I hope that the good weather chases away your virus and sickness so you can relax and feel healthy over the summer   

Pink Tulip - sorry I don't know what IVM is.  Couldn't you try some natural cycles?

Brumbar - very sorry to hear of your BFN and hope your appointment went well.  You are still young though, so have plenty of time ahead of you, so should still be feeling very positive IMHO.

Sue - glad to hear you are feeling better.  I think we all know how it feels to hear someone else is pregnant, especially when it is someone who you think didn't have to try very hard or very long!  One of my friends got pregnant first month she tried, talk about making me feel inadequate!!

Best wishes to all the other regulars and thanks for all the good wishes!


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## annabell99

Hi all!

I hope everyone is enjoying the grey bank holiday weekend   

Buffy- So sorry to hear  about your immature egg    I hope you are having a fantastic and relaxing time in France so that you can come back refreshed and healthy     Whereabouts in France have you gone?

Lulu - I have everything crossed for the cyst to have gone! Good luck for the scan next week    

Sunshine - good to hear from you again and I hope you are feeling better now    

Brumbar- I'm so sorry your cycle didn't work out, and I'm really sorry that you found out on your birthday     I don't know anything about immunes I'm afraid. I didn't think Geeta was a fan but then I think she has suggested it to Sue recently so maybe things have changed.

Mangoeater- You are right, I am finding it hard to relate to people who are pregnant the "old fashioned" way. It sounds awful but I find it difficult to deal with the the fact that for them it is just a normal part of life. I know I am very very lucky and so it seems petty to be envious, but I do envy that. 
Sue- June is indeed a brilliant month (my birthday!) and I really really hope it will go very well for you     

Pinktulip  - Hello! I have a feeling I read about IVM once and it was only available at the time in Oxford- but this was a while ago so may be different now. Mild or natural IVF at Create also reduce the amount of drugs you take, if that is what you are interested in.

cwsg- so lovely to hear that you are having a wonderful time with Isaac! 

Susie  - good to hear from you! I hope you enjoy today's GP.

Meesha- I'm sorry your cycle didn't work out    I hope you get answers to your questions when you see Geeta.

AFM, we are off on holiday this week and then when we get back we have the 20 week scan - so will find out whether I'm right about the gender or whether (as I suspect!) the Prof is right!

I don't write often at the moment because I don't have much news, but I do check nearly every day for updates  and you are all always in my thoughts.

Lots of love to all and apologies to anyone I have missed 

xxx


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## lulumead

Hello all


Feel like I've lost touch with where everyone is at! hope everyone is ok.


Think my cyst is still there as AF should have arrived yesterday or today at latest but not here yet!!! hopefully tomorrow, but makes me think that probably still lurking and affecting hormones still. Ho hum...nothing much to do about that.


An update on cyst watch next week    ...I fear it will now be the size of an orange,   
xx


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## suesunday

*Cyst Watch Part Two*: mine is a beauty, truly disgusting feeling, but happily managed to get a scan for Monday to make sure it's really a cyst. Don't want to pump myself full of more drugs if there's any risk that it's not. Have you tried chaste berry Lulu? I have a vague recollection that it's very good for cysts. And never mind this chat of disgusting growths, what's boy news?

Annabell - good luck for the 20 week scan. I can't believe how quickly time flies!

Hallo Sunshine! Nice to hear from you! How's it going with you? Any key milestones to tell us about, and remind me once again how quickly time flies?

Natasha - bless you! What a lovely thing to say. I'll do my best to deliver that news asap... 

Brumbar - what did you get from your consultation with Geeta? Did you find it useful?

Mangoeater - have you come up from that massive mountain of chocolates yet? Somewhat suggests your nom de plume is a bit inappropriate! 

We never did organise a meet up, ladies. I see there's a few of us in London. What about coffee somewhere one weekend afternoon? Russell Sq, Charlotte Street, the cafe at the Wellcome - I'll even go to Clapham if someone tells me where to go? I want to see Annabell's bump before she legs it to Edinburgh. Knitting projects would be good too! Natasha - maybe we could have a coo at an actual baby too??  Ooh, lovely. 
xxx


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## peachycreme

Hiya,
Just wanted to introduce myself and ask if its okay if I pop in every once in a while. I've been to a Create open day almost 2 years ago, and even had a first appointment w Dr Nargund; but we decided to stay at the clinic we were at, then moved away for a year. Now I'm back, and as a poor responder, am thinking of coming to Create after all. 

I oved the relaxing feel of the clinic, and was impressed w Dr Nargund's philosophy at the open patient day. Although I felt she rushed through my initial appointment the next month, and didn't feel she had the same empathy as other doctors I'd had, maybe she was just having a bad day. I'm curious what others think, or any suggestions.

But what makes me more hesitant to deal with them, is some odd telephone info experiences a few months ago. Because part of choosing a clinic is how smoothly the admin is.

In February, I called Create office to ask a few questions about prices. I asked about the Abandoned Cycle, since I may be facing one or more. I mentioned the fee had gone up by £250 from the last price list, and asked why it was so expensive; and if there was a different fee depending on the number of scans the cycle was abandoned at. I was also confused about the difference between Abandoned and Cancelled cycles. As soon as I said this, the person shouted at me, "Who told you to call".  I was so taken aback, I stammered. After I caught my breath, explained my situation, she calmed down a bit. But she seemed very on edge, guarded, as if someone was watching her, and would only give me one or two word answers. She didnt make any sense as to what a Cancelled Cycle was.  I thought to myself "something VERY ODD is going on at this clinic!"  

I called again a few weeks later, thankfully spoke to someone much nicer and calmer. She was equally confusing about what the Cancelled Cycle was. But mentioned that they were revising the price list to solve confusion, and that the new price for cycles abandoned after 2 scans would be £350, and after 3 or more scans would be £550. I thought that was much more reasonable, especially as the type of women doing IVF cycles at Create were often poor responders and would depend on scans only.

Recently, I see the website has a new improved price list, which is MUCH easier to understand.  But strangely, it seems that they decided to only have a "Abandoned after 1 scan" price only, at £350 for Nat Cycle/£550 Stim Cycle, but the main fee is still £750 if it's abandoned after 2 or more scans. So I've come to the conclusion that there must have been a lot of back-and-forth and disagreement at the clinic, resulting this not very different price. I'm glad to see they seem to have deleted the whole "Cancelled Cycle" concept though, as it made no sense. 

I understand the need to have high fees for some things, as the cost of an IVF cycle is lower than other clinics. But I dont understand the paranoia and strange dynamics. Reading back on this thread, I see that others have also experienced some inconsistencies and had upsetting experiences regarding pricing. So perhaps I called the clinic just as some of this was going on. And perhaps they have too few staff. But as a potential patient, it makes me hesitate. If anyone has similar experiences or insight, I'd love to know. 

Thanks!


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## lulumead

Hello Peachycreme


I think I have a similar feeling about Create....love the philosophy but sometimes it can feel rushed with Dr Nargund but I have found all the Dr's  there to be very good, and I think this is a common thing at lots of clinics.
Admin wise I have find them good, but I think there was a lot of confusion about cancellation fees which they have tried to look at with new pricing policy.
Overall I really like the clinic, and would recommend them.
Good luck making your decision.
xx




Hello everyone else,
hope all good.  have just returned from Create...was soooo busy, so maybe some of you were also in the waiting room    Anyway good news, cyst has gone...so am now on for a natural IUI...decided against any drugs in case overstimmed again.


Cyst sister Sue - any news on yours?  Hope it has gone too.  No boy news...might meet the eharmony man in a couple of weeks, but I can't really be bothered.  My friend with benefits is back from Canada at end of month so i will have a day of male attention which is always nice   


Meeting for a coffee sounds good...I'm SE london...anyone else down this way? E. Dulwich is not far or Clapham....


Hope everyone who is on holiday at the moment is having a lovely time, and those with bumps are suffering too much in the heat...and the babes are all doing well.
xxx


----------



## suesunday

*Cyst Watch Part 4* Hurrah! Mine still there, but is just a cyst. I'm full to bursting with them, which I already knew. The drs doing the sonography cooed around the screen "ooh, I can count 10 lovely cysts just here". It's good when people enjoy their work!

Good job Lulu - looks like this series of Cyst Watch has drawn to its end.

Peachycreme - I don't have anything to compare Create to, apart from one consultation at the Lister, which was actually really good. The chap I saw took ages and well over the appointment time to talk my husband and me through all the options and really carefully explained the implications repeatedly for us. What happened to you is completely bizarre. No wonder you're looking for more info, as that sounds like they're unhinged! I've found the EC and ET to be really good. And I've sometimes felt like other things were not so good. I got totally overprescribed for my last cycle - by £600. I must raise that with them actually. But like Lulu, I like the ethos of the clinic. But am likely to do my next cycle elsewhere I think.

Although I am allergic to Sauf London, I will go to Clapham. I have literally no idea what this Dulwich place is. But if the feeling of the masses is for it, I shall endeavour to look it up.


----------



## cwsg

here's Isaac at 3 months

xxx


----------



## lulumead

oh my CWSG - he is a bit scrummy.    
xx


----------



## lulumead

hello ladies,


Very quiet on here. Hope everyone is ok.


I had another scan today day 7, and have another one on monday day 10...Dr T reckons it might be Wednesday for sperm-whackage   


So far, all seems ok, one nice follicle and lining ok but who knows what might happen. Am not taking any drugs this time apart from HCG to time it so hopefully nothing crazy will occur over the weekend.


Hope you don't mind me posting about my cycle on here...too much pressure over on the singlies board but its nice to post somewhere.


xx


----------



## peachycreme

Hi,
Thanks for welcoming me to your lovely list.    

Lulumead and Suesunday, thanks for your reactions to my very strange admin experience, it's good to know I'm not crazy!    It was a very surreal experience...  It sounds from reading this thread that Jan-April were bad months for Create, and possibly a build-up of many women being confused about the prices. 

I understand they need to make money, but I almost wish they'd increase the price of IVF slightly, and make the Abandoned Cycle fee less. Because poor responders like me may have several cancelled cycles in a row, and I'm loathe to pay so much money every month (at all my other clinics, if a cycle is not possible that month, you only pay for that scan). Has anyone had that experience?

Lulu, I'm wondering why you went back to IUIs after IVFS (apologies if I missed the explanation in the past), was it recommended?

And Suesunday, what did you mean that you were overprescribed by £600? Meaning medication?

Well I have a lot to think about. I have also heard very positive things about Prof Campbell, that he is one of the best scanning experts in London. I may give it a try. 

Hope everyone is enjoying the weather, and has a happy month!


----------



## lulumead

hello peachycreme,


It was my decision to move back to IUI's which clinic are happy with. I am doing this as a singlie so am in the weird position of not having tried at all the fun way   


Basically for me it came down to the fact that everything on paper is totally normal, tubes ok, hormone levels good, womb good, reserve good.  I knew through IVF that I produce eggs ok and they make embryos...getting them implanting is the problem, although I had biochemical on 1st attempt, v bad infection and antibiotics for the 1st time in my life on 2nd attempt and massive stress at work on 3rd attempt when I went to blast. Each time create have been surprised that I have not got pregnant, so I figured with me it might be just a matter of time, in which case IUI is massively cheaper and I can afford to do 4 more attempts at this before I rethink my options again.




A lady on the singlies thread is now pregnant from natural IUI having done 3 unsuccessful IVF's so for some people less intrusion might just work   . That's what I'm hoping anyway.


xx


----------



## Buffy68

Hello everyone

Lulu - good luck with this cycle    It's great news that the cyst went away so quickly and also I think you are spot on to go ahead without stimulants to give your ovary a rest and cut down on the liklihood of another cyst.

Peachycreme - welcome to the board.  I concur with the others that CH seem to have a rather messy charging policy when it comes to abandoned cycles which often leaves you out of pocket.  They do clearly say on their website what their charges are but they seem to vary in practice.  I think next time I go I will gem up on what the charges should be beforehand so I am in a position to argue if necessary.

Sue - glad to hear your scan was reassuring.  Do you know why you have 10 cysts, is it because of over stimulation or just a tendancy you have??  If you have to wait for them to go away before doing another IVF cycle could you try a natural cycle instead?

Annabell - we drove around the Languedoc, then through Massif Central and finally a few days in Burgundy.  It was not that relaxing but a change is as good as a rest, as they say!  Where did you go on holiday?  Have you had the 20 week scan yet?  

AFM: will probably skip the next cycle but may do one late July/August if all goes well.  Am having a confusing moment tracking this month's ovulation as am now on day 16 with no surge yet although EWM for several days now.  DH on standby ha ha.


----------



## allieallie

Hi again after another absence,

Well it looks like I too can now join Lulu and Sue on the wonderful Cystwatch list! 2 big cysts in one ovary, nothing in the other, and a couple of smallies outside. It's funny that they are not at all worried about them, even though this keeps happening. It certainly explains the strange AFs recently.  On the positive side: since cysts generate massive estrogen, I wonder if this means this month my skin and other youthful things will be affected positively.   

Maybe early summer is statistically not the best month for us all? Buffy, maybe waiting till July is the best thing possible!

Welcome Peachycreme, I concur w Buffy and others that Create's Abandoned cycle policies, despite the new price list, are still not clear. Although I think now if they scan and you have cysts, it's definitely considered an "Abandoned Cycle after 1 scan". As opposed to charging you for a regular scan like every other clinic I've been to. But ask Qs and stand your ground. After my last cyst scan, which I paid the above fee, they wanted to schedule another scan "just to see if the cyst grows". From past experience, I know this means they'd charge for a "Full" Abandoned Cycle at the higher price. So I said no thank you. And then the next week, asked to schedule an independent scan for my cyst, thus saving me £250.

I welcome more Cystwatch updates.


----------



## Lucky Brumbar

Hey Ladies!

lulu, hope this is your lucky cycle!!!!

cyst watch Ladies - hope  the cysts don't interfere with the treatment plans... and hope I don't get any myself!!!!!...I had one during stims but they continued and I think they drained it during EC.
Anyway... the folowing autoimune tests were ordered and came back Normal  
1. antiovarian antibodies
2. antiphospholipid antibodies
3 thrombophilia screen incl lupus...

not sure what to do next.... I know this is not the full list so perhaps doing the rest somewhere else...

Next cycle will be the long protocol with buserelin injections and gonal F 225... ( up from 150) .  Starting  cd21. I had 8 eggs on the short protocol  5 mature and 3 fertilized ended up with 2x grade 1 embryos and a BFN....

love to all
xxx


----------



## lulumead

hello all,


Brumbar: think thats the test I had done for basic immunes. I think if you want to do more there are a million you could do!  Good luck with next cycle.    


Allieallie: sorry to hear about the cysts, I hope they go really quickly and in the meantime you have a lovely youthful time   


Buffy: hope you get some action soon    Holiday sounds nice.


Sue, peachycreme and everyone else...hope you are all ok.


AFM, had scan this morning and follicle was nearly 17mm so am triggering tonight at 12.30 GULP! and then in wednesday. Seems really early as Wed will only be day 12 but hopefully will be big enough by then.


xx


----------



## londonite

Hi Ladies,
          I just found this forum and wondered if I could join in? Its a pretty hard road this fertility treatment and my friends are all either pregnant or busy being mums.
          I started with Create last year and had IUI ,now Im on the 2ww after doing mild ivf. Must say I have very mixed feelings about the place! But if this cycle works guess I will be raving about them!
          Anyway just wanted to wish you all well


----------



## NatashaM

Welcome Londonite! Lovely to have you with us. Best of luck with the two week wait. We have all gone slightly insane on it - me to the extent of worrying that going for a poo was going to squeeze the embryos out. I can laugh about it now but at the time it was terrible.

All the ladies with cysts - I had a couple of big hemorrhagic cysts caused by egg collection, is that the sort you guys have?

Lulu - good luck with the IUI. My friend is also on the two week wait after having IUI (medicated but still only managed one follicle) and I am thinking of you both.

Buffy - probably a good idea to have a short break from treatment and 'regroup'. holiday sounds lovely.

Peachycreme - Prof Campbell is one of the best - he introduced Ultrasound to this country and trained Kypros Nicolaides. However he didn't spot my bicornuate uterus when I went for my pre-treatment scan so he is obviously not infallible.

As for meeting up, it would be lovely but would it not be upsetting with me rocking up with a baby in tow? Be honest. And whoever suggested East Dulwich, a word of warning - it is bugaboo central so probably not the best place to go for a coffee etc.

We are fine. A is doing great. I've stopped bothering going to get him weighed as he's obviously growing well. DH went to Canada for a week for work and that was a bit difficult, I was so glad to have him home. My dad has been having some treatment over in Italy for some growths in his bladder but the doctors think they have got rid of it all so he is hopefully going to come over and meet his grandson soon.

Love to all.
N x


----------



## mrsotter

Hello All,

I hope I can crash your thread as well. I am considering Create Clinic, and have done a bit of lurking on your thread already to begin to see what to consider as we think about setting up a consultation. We actually went to an open house at Create a few months ago.  

I wrote another post about NHS options in London when we moved here a couple of months ago but have since decided to go private. Basically, we have been told to relax by our GP to wait and continue TTC naturally for another 6-12 month as there no clear impediments to conception (I ovulate, tubes open, and husband is fine). But given my age, nearly 37, and history of losing of our son last year, I just don't have the patience to wait around for the NHS process.

I really like the ethos at Create with its emphasis on supporting less invasive, less drugs approaches to conception. Given that I have conceived before, and that all our tests are generally okay if not super (amh 15.9, fsh 8, progesterone fine, husband within the normal range) I don't feel like I should need a super intensive approach. Also, Create is pretty close, as I live in Putney. For these reasons I am considering it. 

However, I am a bit concerned with the lower rate of success as compared to some of the other options, like CRGH or ARGC -- and the clinic seems not to have the same commitment to weekend hours, and from lurking I can see that there are some issues re: pricing. And I have to admit I don't see quite the same raves about Create that I read about places like ARGH, St. Barts or CRGH. 

I feel a bit torn as I don't think we need an intensive approach like at ARGH, Lister or CRGH but kinda wonder if we should not just go straight to one of these clinics since we would probably go there if it did  not work out at a place like Create. Since whatever we choose will be expensive, maybe we should forget this less invasive approach and go immediately to the more traditional options. 

Also, I am seeing Dr. Zhai, doing acupuncture and taking herbs. I was wondering if any of you at Create has been doing herbs during any treatment. I think Dr. Geeta (?) mentioned that she did not support Chinese herbs.  I have to say that the herbs have definitely straightened out my cycle and helped with my grief/mood so I don't really want to stop them. 

Basically I am asking for any reviews/feedback as to why you choose Create, and would you do it again? 

Thanks so much for any advice -- I really appreciate any help. I feel so lost in this process of considering where to go -- and after our loss last year I feel even more anxious about this whole TTC effort.  I hope it is okay I asking this on your chat thread, but figured if I posted this as a separate thread I would probably just get linked to your thread.  

Take care all and I hope that you all get your dreams fulfilled soon. 

regards, 
Mrs Otter


----------



## lulumead

Hello Mrs Otter...grr....just lost my post...anyway.


Just wanted to say so sorry to hear about the loss of your first baby     Wish there was something that could be said to make it easier but there isn't.


I totally understand the dilemma. I am doing this on my own and in theory have no reasons why it won't work so I keep wondering if I should go and do the intensive approach somewhere but I just keep coming back to trying to keep it as natural as possible and I really don't want too many drugs. Hence Create!
Its probably good just to see a few clinics and see which one you get a feel for...although generally they charge for every consultation!


AFM: I am now on the 2WW, oh joy!  So busy at work that I don't really have time to think about it but equally am a bit stressed so that's not very useful. Oh well.....lets hope the liquid gold works its magic.
xx


----------



## Sunshine42

Hello all,

Mrs Otter - firstly I am so sorry for your loss, I cannot imagine how you must feel. I can understand your anxiety to get going and go full out at ARGC or somewhere similar. As you have conceived naturally before I thought I would tell you of my experience at Create. I too had conceived naturally with a resulting m/c, and after a period of a year an AMH blood test result of 0.78 and being told my egg reserve in my one ovary was 'undectable' we tried natural cycle IVF at Create in Dec 09.  It didn't work as there was no egg to collect, however we did conceive naturally in Jan 10 and I am now 25 weeks pregnant. After speaking with midwifes / my GP / Prof Campbell at Create, they all think that it could be that the drugs for the natural cycle in Dec were just enough to 'wake up' my ovary and hence conception in Jan 10.    In addition I had been having regular acupuncture, chinese herbs( I know someone else asked about chinese herbs, I took these right thro to 10 weeks of pregnancy), intensive vitamin course for both me and DH thro Foresight Concep  tion.  

It could be that the more 'natural' approach at Create might be just enough for you, and from the research I did into ARGC etc. Create's natural cycle is much cheaper....  Good luck to you.

Annabell - how's it going? when is your 20 week scan? 

Buffy - sounds like the holiday was just what you needed, onwards and upwards as they say. Best wishes for the next cycle.

Fingers crossed for all on the 2ww and hope all those nasty cysts have gone!

AFM - midwife appt this morning - all well and as it should be. Relief all over again, I get so nervous for each appt. Next stage is scan at 28 weeks and consultant appt (all extra due to my 'elderly mother' status!  I'm not really complaining... makes me giggle a bit!

Thinking of you all, and hoping for lots of summer 2010 bumps!

Sunshine xxxx


----------



## londonite

Hey,
Mrs Otter- to be honest I wouldnt recommend them to a close friend.Im quite judgemental though! Firstly we were told to go to the clinic by Geeta when at an NHS appointment at St Georges-she said that the waiting list was too long and not to bother with it. She then gave us details of Creates open day and told us not too worry as it wouldnt be expensive as we would only need IUI.
Joined up ,tried IUI and were then told(with original results) that we needed IVF with ICIS. Admin was driving me insane. We spoke to them and emailed them, and on THREE occassions they assured us our results were there and would be there for our appointment-they werent.So each time we would go there to get our fertility plan, take time off work and get nothing! I was completely out of my head by then.
Anyway threw a big tanty one day at the clinic and good old Geeta stepped out and had a consultation with us (with no notes).
I find her very business like and to the point.Think I like her but am very skeptical of the clinic now. I have a friend in same position as me and hubby going through Chelsea and Westminster and their drug script is heaps lower and she was on none for IUI-I was on chlomid and had to cancel cycle due to popping eggs out right ,left and centre. So is Creates mild?
The prices we were quoted did not include a million extra charges.
Also one of the nurses was a complete ***** to me when my husband got called away at the last minute.
Question-why are we still there?Its taken us so long to get this far Im frightened of changing and being back to square one.

Anyway am on the 2ww and am out of my head. Started back at work yesterday and its killing me
x


----------



## londonite

I am off my head.She was a complete ***** not a complete women!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jo8

Hi

Hope you don't mind me joining in. Just tested on 2ww and its negative - had modified natural cycle. Got 1 grade 1 embie and implantation bleeding (I think) days 5-7. Phoned clinic to tell them results (live 250 miles away from cliinc) so tested near home and receptionist was really off with me saying that no-one there to talk to, would email nurses to ring me if I wanted but soo busy tomorrow that don't know if they would have time.Is this what normally happens - at my previous clinic they gave you follow up consultation - do Create and do you have to pay for it (like you seem to have to for everything else)? Feeling really confused & need someone to talk to about why it has failed & whether its worth trying it again. I was feeling very positive about my experience there until now (despite 3 hour wait for t/x)

Any advice would be appreciated
Thanks
Jo


----------



## londonite

Jo,
      I hope you are okay and have lots of support.Im so so sorry for you and your partner. I hope a nurse will get back to you
as they are usually pretty good. I think the follow up consultation does cost more.Its on the website. Take some time to grieve though and get your physical strength back.It will happen for you, dont worry
xx

:


----------



## lulumead

Hi Jo8,


Sorry to hear it didn't work....in the past I have had free consultation in-between treatments but maybe they have changed that?


I have had 2 x 'perfect' embies put back on 3 occasions, sometimes I think there just aren't any reasons...which is really frustrating and certainly doesn't make it any easier. I think it is worth seeing what they have to say.


I've always found the receptionists to be nice....and apart from waiting haven't had any real problems at all. Maybe I've been lucky.


xx


----------



## luce87

Hi Jo
I've been lurking here for a while and also just had a bfn after a modified natural cylce.  
I went to the clinic for a blood test (as I only live 6 miles from the clinic!) and the when the nurse called me with the result she said about making a follow up appointment.
I phoned up today to book one (expecting to have to pay for it) but without me asking I was told that a follow up appointment after a failed IVF cylce was free of charge.
So I'm sure that when you speak to the nurse they will tell you this - or you could just phone up and ask to book a follow up anyway.
Good luck
Luce x


----------



## mrsotter

Hello All, 


Thanks for your helpful responses, very much appreciated. 


Lulumead -- Thanks for sharing your experience with me. Good luck with this month's IUI, let's hope those swimmers are strong.  This might just be the lucky one you have been waiting for.  I know how frustrating the two week wait it is -- I guess technically I am on it now as well, but since we are TTC naturally, I just don't believe that I will get pregnant without some assistance, so it is more a countdown to my next AF. Perhaps that is part of my problem...  .erh?! 


Sunshine42, Congrats on your pregnancy! I hope it all goes very well, and take good care of yourself. What a great story to hear about -- and frankly how nice to hear about your amh level. When I did the amh test Dr. Zhai did not really explain it, and according to the chart I read my level falls into the "less fertile" section so of course that freaked me out. 


Londonite - Thanks for your frank assessment. This is very helpful and honest. I have seen some intimations in other places/posts about the lack of organisation at Create so not terribly shocking, but disappointing. I really hope that this go-around is successful for you and you have some joy after all this stress and bother.  I can understand your dilemma about whether to move/change clinics, and this is a bit what I want to avoid, hence all my questions to you all.  


Jo8, sorry about your negative cycle, I hope you get the answers you need and have good news soon. 


Thanks again all for your responses. I would love to hear more, if anyone has any other thoughts.  


take very good care and good luck everyone. 


cheers,
Mrs Otter


----------



## NatashaM

Hi All,

Mrs Otter - I am so sorry for the loss of your son, my heart goes out to you and your husband. 

I would think that, apart from the low-doses of drugs that Create wouldn't be ideal. They are quite hands off and as you've read the admin side of things leaves a lot to be desired. I remember turning up at their Harley St offices just after my first IVF and negative test when they said there would be someone there to see me and the door being locked and no one being there. I had just heard it was unsuccessful and was crying on their staircase. I think someone who has been through what you've been through could do with a more hand-holding approach if you see what I mean. My friend who was successful at ARGC said that they were a lot more like that.

Londonite - I think fertility friends autochanges some words. I assume you were saying the nurse was the thing that rhymes with "hitch"?

jo8 - sorry you were unsuccessful and the receptionist was not very nice.

Lots of love to everyone and welcome to any newbies I've not mentioned by name.

N x


----------



## londonite

Oh Ive had a bad,bad day and now Im laughing!! Yes they do change it she was a rhyming with itch!  A real itch! Ha ha ha.
Thought I really was crazy when I kept seeing "woman" each time I called her an itch! Ahhhhh still laughing now. How dare they translate word that rhymes with itch as woman....cheeky ucks
xxxx


----------



## luce87

Hello Mrs Otter

I'm so sorry to hear about your son - I don't know what to say.   

I just thought you might find it helpful to hear about my experiences.  I have just moved from CRGH to Create.  I think somewhere like CRGH or ARGC is great if they think you will respond well to the drugs and then you do.  It's worth remembering that part of the reason for their good success rate is that they are very selective about who they treat.  So for example at CRGH they have a high number of cycles that start out as IVF but they will then refuse to carry out egg collection if you don't have what they see as enough follicles.  Of they will just refuse to treat you at all.  When I went there they refused me IVF, and offered GIFT (which is much more invasive) instead.  They then converted that to IUI at the last minute because I didn't have their minimum of 5 follicles.  But I think if you respond well then they can be great and I'm sure their lab and embryologists are top notch. 

CRGH is also always very busy, and although most of the doctors are nice, I had no sense that anyone remembered who I was from one visit to the next, so you can feel quite alone.  So I didn't find them very friendly or personal.

My experience of CREATE has been good.  I thought Dr Nargund was very approachable when I had my consultation, and she has recognised me and stopped to say hello if she has seen me in the waiting room at other times.  The nurses have been good, and again,because the clinic is small they remember you from one visit to the next.  I haven't had any problems with the admin or billing.  I had my egg collection on a Sunday on a bank holiday weekend, and that didn't seem to be an issue at all for them - it was quite busy on that day

The other thing that is better at CREATE is appointments.  At CRGH the waiting times were terrible.  You could be waiting for an hour past your appointment time for a scan, and then after that have to wait another hour to see a nurse if you needed a blood test.  So it was stressful and difficult to manage if you work.

But I think ultimately different clinics suit different people, and although you will have to pay, it is probably worth making an appointment and see what their view is of your treatment, and how you feel about them.

I hope that helps.  Wishing you the very best of luck

Luce x


----------



## londonite

2ww is going very slowly for me.Anyone else wishing time away?
Test on Thursday or Friday (work dependant!)
x


----------



## lulumead

I''m with you, I'm only 3 days in and already bored of waiting   


xx


----------



## jo8

Hi ladies

Thanks for the welcome and words of support - it means a lot - wish I'd joined you earlier  

Well got a phonecall back from the nurse who was lovely and said that I should see it as a positive (even if it does not feel like it at mo) that body responded in the way it did for first natural cycle and that maybe there was a genetic problem with the embryo but that doesn't mean would happen again. Also that should prepare to need 3 cycles before they would call it a day and say stop trying - wish they had told me this at the beginning though. Having a think about what to do next - ust admoit body seems to react much better to minimal drugs rather than being pumped with loads! Didn't offer me follow-up consultation though - might phone back for one

Londonite & Lulumead - hang on in thee - fingers crossed as has to be positive coming along soon!

Luce - sorry to hear about your BFN - have you had many trys before? Have you any ideas what you will do next? Good luck in whatever you decide on

Jo x


----------



## lucy501

Hi
    New to site .just wanted to say hello and how impressed everyone is so supportive.I  just got the 5%  odds of having a child talk on friday at crgh and devastated .High fsh at 14.5 and amh  6.7,afc 4.They said they would try diui gonal f 300 and depending on that consider ivf  and I will follow that through .I had really researched crgh and hoped it would work .About to be 41 and only trying 6 months as took a while to find mr.right and so shocked that ivf may not even be an option .Drinking dr,wheatgrass supershots ,started acupuncture and eating healthy but my friend advised to get a consultation at lister also.I can't afford  3 cycles at crgh and then be refused and  months down the line try lister ,and be older  and too late .I think the care is better at crgh from reading reviews on here (scans done by doctors rather than nurses,etc ) but if they don't like treating poor responders I don't know whether to go lister  straight off as time is short .I don't know if anyone has advice ,hammersmith has been mentioned also but I don't know if lister better .
  We are a mixed couple and adoption is extremely difficult and  crgh says egg donation is from abroad .A gp friend advised freezing eggs now so at least they don't get any worse but I  don't know if that is a good idea due to the low thaw rate !
  I love my coffee ,a few beverages and sweets and cut them all out  for pumpkin seeds and super algae ...not the same !!

  Lucy xxx


----------



## mrsotter

Hello All --


I really appreciate all of the helpful comments you have made. It is great food for thought. And thank you for your condolences -- it is so hard to be back in this position while missing my darling boy so.


Nastasha -- Thanks for letting me know about your experience during your first IVF. I am so sorry to hear about your visit to the Harley Street clinic -- how dreadful for you. What a nightmare it must have been. I think if I read the thread right you have had a happy outcome, so that is great. 


Londnite and Lulu, good luck with your 2ww. In Swedish we say I will hold our thumbs for you -- it is a bit like crossing one's fingers. It is so hard to wait.


Luce87, Thank you for the detailed description/comparison between your experiences at CRGH and Create. Really helpful and interesting to see the difference. I had not realised to what degree clinic cherry-pick candidates to ensure success. At the moment I am not working -- we just moved to London as hubby got a new job, but I want to start working soon as I think it would be good for me mentally -- however it is convenient not to be working if we do need intensive treatment.  


Lucy501,  I am sorry to hear what CRGH said about your chances. I would try to not get too discouraged, many women with lower amh and higher fsh have gone on to have children. I know it is hard. I think you might to check out the lister thread for info on them and perhaps have a consultation with them now. Also, from what I have read here and on the Create website, sometimes the mild stimulation/lesser interventions can be very successful with women with lower amh. So definitely check them out -- they have an open house every month which might be useful. Good luck. 


Finally, I am going to the CRGH open house in July, and will see how I feel then. I might go ahead and set up consultations at a few places as someone in this thread suggested. It is expensive, but might be the way to figure out exactly where I feel most comfortable. How pleased the hubby will be?! I want to be somewhere that is open constantly and follows me super closely -- and yet is also personal enough so that everyone knows my name. Am I asking too much   ?  


Thanks all so much for your help and support. 


Take very good care.


Mrs O


----------



## lucy501

Thanks mrs O .I went to create ,they are good but the results are lower so wanted to try the ivf first if allowed .fingers crossed for both of us!

xx


----------



## Sunshine42

Hi Lucy 501,

I just wanted to say do not give up and keep heart. I read your post with your history and it is similar to mine. My FSH at its worse was 22, and AMH 0.78, a consultant told us we have 2% chance of IVF working with my eggs and that we should consider donor eggs. I was 42 at the time. I remember sitting with the consultant and being determined not to cry infront of her, she literally wrote us off, I cried the whole way home. After a few days of wallowing it actually made me stronger, and then I went hell for leather on the holistic route, plus investigating clinics such as Create, Lister & ARGC. I got the impression from ARGC that they cherry pick, but the Lister does not and wanted to give every woman a chance. Although I have found the admin side of Create a headache I liked the staff and they were optimistic that I did have a chance, and we could start right away. We had one cycle of natural IVF, minimal drugs and when we got to egg collection - no egg - a huge disappointment, but we went on to conceive naturally the next month and I am now 26 weeks pregnant.

So stay positive it can and does happen, even to those of us the medical world write off!

All the best.

Sunshine xxx


----------



## mrsotter

Hi Sunshine, 


Your story is really lovely, and I am so glad to hear about your success. You mention you went hell for leather on the holistic front -- what exactly did you do and what do you think helped you get ready to get pregnant? 


I am taking vitamins, doing yoga, hypnotherapy, acupuncture... so am a bit of a fiend for the alternative therapies....and always looking for new things to try. 


cheers,
Sara


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## londonite

Hey were any of you at the clinic today at about 12? I will be there again for my pregnancy test at 9.What fun
x


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## jo8

Hi

Londonite & Lulumead- fingers crossed - any news yet

Sunshine - what a great outcome - gives us oldies some hope    Hope its all going well

Lucy501 - hope you are getting clearer where you would like to go. I know someone (also over 40) who did one cycle at CRGH wasn't happy with way she was treated & then switched to Lister, which she much prefers - it is about personal preference though but Lister do have good reputation for over 40s. Personally I chose Create because I thought there was no point in pumping loads of drugs into my body when I would probably get same response from using hardly any drugs and maybe even better egg quality ( which is exactly what happened)

Mrs Otter - have you thought about trying the Foresight programme - you send hair off for analysis and then they tell you what you/DH are deficient in & recommend tailored supplements?

Spoke to clinic again today about a follow-up consultation - can't believe they charge another £150 for it as we had natural cycle! Seems a bit mad as only want to find out whether worth trying again so its in their interests as they might get more business!! 

Luce - when you phoned up about your follow-up was it Wimbledon or Harley Street that you spoke too?

Jo x


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## lulumead

Hi Jo8 and all   


That sounds crazy having to pay for a follow-up. Do you need to see them face to face?  Maybe you could just speak to one of the doctors over the phone and see if they can give you an idea if good to go again.


I am very bored of waiting now.  No signs apart from the delightful pessaries! Sore boobs, wind and tiredness.


at the moment, I am just stressing about how I arrange the next go which will clash with my big work project. hmmmmm.....will have to work on that.
xx


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## luce87

Hi Jo
I phoned Wimbledon which is where my appointment is.  I'm seeing Dr N next Friday.
The receptionist definately said to me that because it was a failed IVF that there was no charge for a follow up.  I had natural cylce but she didn't ask whether it was natural or mild.
Where is your appointment?
It will be interesting to see if they try to charge me on the day - I'll argue the toss if they do - I'll let you know.
It's not good to be telling different people different things.
Hope you manage to sort it out - I know it's natural cycle but I wouldn't feel happy about going ahead again without sitting down with a dr first and seeing what their view is of how things have gone and whether they would do anything differently next time.
Good luck!
Luce x


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## londonite

Not pregnant damn it! Those buffoons at Create kept we waiting from 9am test til 5.45pm last night to tell me.Longest day of my life!! Told me they would ring at 2pm, I was such a waste of space at work!! 
Also couldnt book a follow up appointment til the 12th and receptionist said it would be £150...so we had an argument.So who knows if its included!
Good luck to those still to test.Heres hoping for some good news


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## Buffy68

Hello everyone, hope you are enjoying the hot weather   

Allieallie - sorry to hear about your cysts.  If this keeps happening have you considered seeing a practitioner of Chinese medicine?  I know liquid cysts are supposed to be a sign of dampness, which can be treated.

Brumbar - glad to hear your immune tests came back normal, it must have been a relief.  Do you know when you are going to try another cycle?

Lulu - good news about your cyst going and hope this cycle is    for you!  You are so right about the lack of hand holding.  It's out of sight out of mind as far as I can see.

Londonite - it's good to meet a new face from CH!  I too have mixed feelings.  All the bad stuff you say, but on the other hand they are to be applauded for trying natural and mild stim.  Also, as has been already said, many other clinics refuse to treat women over 41 or with poor results in order to keep their figures up.  I'm really sorry you got a negative cycle this time and that they weren't more sensitive about passing the news on promptly (no surprises there)   .  But onwards and upwards!

Natasha - I'm so glad you are keeping in touch even though you've succesfully jumped all the fences    I think my cyst was a result of egg collection as it appeared right after and had some blood in it.  It was stubborn and didn't go away quickly like a couple of smaller ones I have had which just lasted 1 or 2 cycles.  (The EC had not been at CH.)

Mrs Otter - So sorry to hear about the loss of your son, I can only imagine how traumatic that must have been     All your test results etc sound really good to me so I am sure you have excellent chances for another pregnancy.  I have been taking chinese herbs (although I have had periods of illness when I wasn't able to take them) and I think they do help.  I can't see why you wouldn't want to use everything at your disposal.  My cycle went mad for a bit too but seems to have stabilized now.  I certainly think going natural is a good place to start rather than taking lots of stimulants.  I don't know if anyone other than CH does natural cycles?

Sunshine - I always love reading your story, it just shows that these blood tests of ovarian reserve etc are limited in what they can tell you.  Glad to hear all is going well with your pregnancy.

Jo8 - welcome to the group, sorry to hear your cycle didn't work out   .  As for the clinic, what you get charged for seems to depend on whom you talk to! BTW I think 3 cycles is a bit conservative.  You wouldn't try only 3 cycles to get pregnant naturally, it can take months!

luce - sorry also to hear about your negative    I found your feedback about the other clinics very useful.  It is very easy to think the grass is greener.

lucy - hello to you too, it is nice to have so many new joiners!  Lots of women with much worse blood test results than you get pregnant so don't let your depression last too long!

Annabell - how about an update on your 20-week scan?

AFM - I never did work out when I ovulated.  I ran out of my usual sticks on day 13 and got some others which have two lines and when one line gets darker than the other (or something) you're about to ovulate.  Anyway, there was no clear ovulation day from these sticks with their two dark lines (is it just me or they difficult to read, I usually use the ones with the smiley face?).  I think I did ovulate though because I had EWM for 4 days 12-16.  I am on day 30 now and awaiting my AF.


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## lulumead

ooh Buffy I'm crossing my fingers that AF doesn't arrive for you, and that you've cracked it this month    


How's everyone else doing?


AFM: due to test on Wed...not sure how I feel, had a bit of blood on Friday but nothing since, and really felt like I was going to come on Friday/saturday, but now just have a headache.  So I'm really hoping that it is due to implantation as was day 9/10....but been here too many times to really think it anything other than my body being weird.   


enjoy the sunshine...I have a whole day off tomorrow and am hanging out with a friend with benefits so am hoping for a kiss or two   


xx


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## lulumead

eek...does that make me sound like a ****!?
I'm not....  

x


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## lulumead

word was replaced....enjoy guessing what I really wrote.x


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## Buffy68

Which word was replaced, naughty?

What letter did it begin with?

Sounds hopeful with the earlier spotting!  Everything crossed for you


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## NatashaM

Was it 5lag or 5lut? Haha - I can foil their autochanger.


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## lulumead

Natasha wins...it was 5lut    


xx


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## Buffy68

They changed the word 5lut?

What is the point of this, are they worried we'll start insulting each other online?  Tits to that.


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## lulumead




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## allieallie

Hi,
Glad to see (well not really see, but you know what I mean) all the new faces. 

Brumbar, glad your immune tests were normal. Mine were elevated, but not terribly so. I was given predisolone at another clinic, but not at Create.

Londonite, welcome. Sorry to hear about your BFN. I understand how you are frustrated w admin. Like you, I feel I've come this far, and dont want to change again. Its a catch-22. 

Mrs. Otter, so sorry to hear about your first child. I can't imagine what you've been through. I think Create can be useful if you really don't want to take drugs (which may make sense if you've been seeing Dr Zhai); or if it's your last resort when drugs have not worked. For me it's my last resort, having been to many high-drug clinics. I think it's helpful to either go to open houses, or just call a clinic of interest and ask if you can drop in, get information, see what the waiting room looks like; and if you like it, to spend the money for a consult. It's important to feel you have a choice.

Lucy 501, welcome. An AMH of 6.7 is not low at all (by my low standards!) What is AFC?  Don't lose hope!

Jo8, welcome. So sorry to hear about your result- but glad a nurse finally called you. A friendly voice can make such a difference! But (also Londonite) a followup appt after IVF should definitely be free.

Luce87, welcome, and glad to see your positive attitude.

Lulu, keeping fingers crossed for you. I understand about work... I've lost so many clients because of fertility.

Sunshine, your story is truly inspirational- thanks for telling us! Maybe there is hope!

Natasha, you're wonderful for still associating with the likes of us when you're over the fence already, so thanks. Although every single one of my appointments (consult or scan) in Wimbledon office has been AT LEAST 90 minutes late (Luce you've been lucky), I suppose I should feel lucky I've never arrived at Create to find locked doors!

As for me: my acupuncturist "popped" my cyst (really we dont know, but I'm attributing it to her), I was over the moon! But... now I'm again one of the Cyst Sisters. Sigh. Natasha, to answer your Q, these arent cysts after EC, they are random cysts, I think they said some were unovulated follicles, and some might be I think "corpus luteum" cysts, formed from the leftovers after a follicle ovulates. Anyway they are annoying. Buffy, you're right, they are a sign of dampness, according to the acupuncturist/herbalist, so I have been taking herbs for a few months now.

I'm thinking of taking the rest of the summer "off". Maybe the herbs can do their thing. And to be honest, I'm not excited about having to pay for a cancelled cycle each month, rather than just one scan. I really wish they'd increase the price of an IVF cycle slightly instead. Otherwise, all us women with monthly cancelled-cycles may flee.   

If I take the next month off, I'll do naughty little things like have chocolate like Mangoeater, and open up the Bucks Fizz. Maybe I'll get my hair highlighted (tho I'm still worried about PPD chemicals in hair dyes, even many "natural" ones; as they advise pregnant women not to dye hair), maybe with henna.

Enjoy the warm weather everyone.


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## suesunday

Oh, MrsOtter - what a heartbreaking story. I've been thinking about you since I saw your post. On your original Q about whether to go to Create or leg it to somewhere more traditional - I am legging it to the Lister for my next cycle (and they're not uping my dose much at all if you're worried about big amounts of drugs), which I'll start in about 2 weeks there. And I've got a consultation coming up at the ARGC just in case... But I wouldn't touch CRGH after what I've heard about them on these boards. So, I guess my answer is go traditional, based on what I'm now doing... 

Jo8 - agree with others that your follow up should be free. 

Buffy & Lulu - what's going on? What's going on? Come on ladies!!        Or should that be one lady and one er herm (coughs).    Tits indeed. 

Talking of those, I think it was Buffy who asked about my cysty tits. Just made like that. Had them before IVF. Bit frightening at first but now learning to love the bumps and lumps... 

Londonite - hallo! And really really sorry to hear about your news. And outraged that you had to wait that long! 

Lucy501 - I too miss coffee but then 'fall off the wagon'. I love it too much. 

And hallo Luce. Good luck. 

Natasha. I bow to your swearing/cuss word expertise.    NB I wouldn't be fazed by a baby at a meet up. I might steal it of course, depending on how cute he is. Better not be too cute... 

Hallo Sunshine. 26 weeks! Blimey! Fantastic. 

Hallo to anyone I've missed. xx


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## LEECOWDEN

Hi everyone apologies for prolonged absence have been on holiday - will try and read through the numerous posts tonight to catch up.

Mrs Otter - not sure if you have been but there is a create open day on 17th July where you can view the facilities, meet Geeta and the team and have a one to one with her. You just need to phone the clinic and book in to either the 12-2 or 2-4 slots.

Don't forget if you have any questions for the clinic or comnents (e.g. wait times) if you PM me or put them on the offical create forum http://createhealth.creatingforum.com/forum.htm

I will get answers for you directly from the clinic.

As for a meet up - I am going to organise one in the next couple of months. Just need to know form you whether you would prefer day (e.g.) weekend picnic in the park, or an evening after work (maybe a pub) Please let me know your preferences and also if there are any deifinite dates you cannot do, I will then try and choose a d ate.

Love to you all

Lee

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## mrsotter

Hello All, 

Thanks to all for your kind words of support. It is so hard some days to have hope for the future after our loss, and that is why I am anxious to learn more about our different options. I suppose it gives me something to think about beyond the grief. You are all so kind and supportive.

Londonite, Sorry to hear about your news. I really hope your next go around is successful. I can totally understand your disappointment. I hope you are able to get the consult organised soon. 

Thanks LeeCowden for the info on the Create forum, I will check it out. I did go to an open house in March at Create, and really liked Geeta when I met her. But I am a bit hesitant when I hear about some of the admin issues etc. I am checking a few more clinics open houses etc.  In fact, the next one is at CRGH next Wednesday, so we will see how that goes. 

Sue Sunday I saw your message where you wrote that you would never consider CRGH, and are going to Lister next. I was wondering if there was something in particular that put you off or ?The ladies on the CRGH thread seem pleased with the clinic generally so. Is it mainly because they tend to cherry-pick who they help?

Buffy68, thanks for your message. I think CRGH actually does do natural cycles, or at least it is on their website that it is option. Whether they do it frequently or not is maybe another matter. I really like the CH approach in theory, and am hoping that the herbs work first. But I don't want to wait too long. 

Allieallie, Enjoy your summer taking time off and eating chocolate. I swear once we are off this TTC/fertility/pregnancy rollarcoaster I plan to eat so many sweets, drink alcohol and coffee and skip vitamins for about a year to make up for all the healthy eating I endure now. I had my first coffee in about 3 months the other day, and it was heavenly. My husband actually has a theory my following all these rules to avoid caffeine sugar alcohol etc is making me crazy and that is preventing me getting pregnant. Who to trust? Him or Zita/Zhai? For the time being I will go with the Z-ladies. 

Sunshine, Hope all is going well with your bean. 

Lulu,  hope you had fun with your friend....  and have some good news soon. 

Thanks again to you all for your support and help. I want to get started in August so hopefully I will make up my mind soon. Too many options almost! 

Even if I don't choose Create, I can still lurk here on this thread right?


I hope you are all able to enjoy a bit of this lovely sunshine. And my English husband said it never got hot in the summertime here...


cheers 


Mrs Otter


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## LEECOWDEN

Hi everyone, sorry still haven't had time to look through all the posts to find out exactly what the admin issues were and the waiting times, but I spoke to Geeta this morning and she would liek to reassure everyone that if there are any issues, whatever they may be if you let me know, I will forward them to her and she will look into everything.

Re: waiting times; at the moment the clinic are having a lot of patients cycling naturally which means that the cycle is unpredictable so they cannot know exactly when a patient will need scanning, EC, ET etc. this is one of the cons surrounding natural stimulation, obviously the pros of natural and mild IVF far out weigh the cons.  

Also the clinic are receiving lots of requests from older ladies with a poorer egg reserve, their time is limited in terms of waiting for treatment, and as I'm sure you will all sympathise with these ladies, and with the clinic, they obviously want to try and help these ladies asap, as each month that they have to wait reduces their chances. Obviously this is not good news for those who are sitting in the waiting room waiting for an appointment, but may just by being aware of the reasons for the wait might help ease it a bit. 

I hope this makes sense, and if not please feel free to ask questions.


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## LEECOWDEN

Hi I have now had time top trawl through the posts from the last two weeks - forgive me if I forget the exact details.

The main concerns seem to be attitude of admin staff, and costs of follow up appointments after failed cycles...if there was anything else please let me know...x

Also to those ladies who are asking whether to choose create's mild approach or the more traditional approach, the consideration needs to be a combination on thinking about how you feel about taking drugs (if any) and the levels of doses. Also, the other consideration is the fact that for older women the natural approach has been found to be more successful. I had a heart attack following an episode of OHSS, as a result of a clinic not monitoring me properly and just pumping me full of drugs - I therefore found Geeta's attitude and her firm beliefs the way forward for me - obviously at first before I knew any different and before the heart attack I would have walked over hot coals and taken anything and everything to have my babies. The most important thing for me when reflecting on a clinic is to think about your own personal views and opinions, it is very easy to think that the grass is greener, and yes sometimes it is, but please remember (those ladies who are currently cycling), Create has had many very happy patient's both those who have been successful and some who unfortunately who have not been.

Anyway think that is enough rambling for now.

Goodnight everyone, 

Leex


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## lulumead

Hello ladies....sorry posting quickly from work so proper post later.


Didn't work again. Grrrrr.....had sort of thought it had as had bit of blood once on Friday 9DPO so thought it might have been implantation.  But at least this time the pessaries worked as no spotting before OTD so maybe body is in better hormonal balance. Will get the fellas popped up again in a couple of weeks.


Much fun had with special friend   


We had a candlelit dinner in the garden which was lovely.
x


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## annabell99

Hi All!

Sorry for the long silence, we have been on holiday and then moving house. Edinburgh seems really nice so far but we haven't actually seen much of it yet as there are still loads of boxes to unpack! There has been loads going on on the board in the last couple of weeks so apologies if I miss anyone...

Lulu- I'm so sorry your basting didn't work this time    It sounds like your horomones are in better shape though so hopefully next time will be the one! I'm glad you're managing to have some fun   

Lee- I'm so sorry to hear of your heart attack, that is really shocking    I hope you are fully recovered now. I can sympathise with the people on the board who are uncertain whether to continue with Create or "throw everything at it" at one of the more aggressive clinics because we were having those thoughts before our last cycle at Create. But then that cycle worked. I'm really glad we didn't change clinics because although it may well have worked somewhere else too, at Create we were able to stick to what we had decided from the beginning was the right thing to do. It is a personal decision for everyone though, and a really difficult decision to make.

Mrs Otter- I'm so sorry for your loss    I think you are so brave to try again and I wish you every luck    . Re. the Zita eating rules, I pretty much ditched all of them for my last cycle (because they were driving me crazy and causing anxiety  ) and it didn't do any harm. I didn't drink alcohol, but there was a lot of chocolate and sugar consumed   . And lattes.

Sue- I hope all goes well at the Lister     We had an IUI there last summer and really didn't like the attitude of the doctor we saw, but hopefully that was just the one doctor and not the whole place!

Allieallie- I hope if you decide to have the summer off you can enjoy lots of choclate and alcohol!

Buffy- Fingers crossed that AF doesn't turn up this month     ! I'm glad your cycle sounds like it is sorting itself out and you sound calmer and less stressed.

Londonite- I'm so sorry your cycle didn't work this time and that you had such a long stressful day waiting for the phonecall    

Hello to everyone else - I'm sorry but my browser won't show any posts older than those I have replied to above at the moment so I can't do any more personals this time. I will try to keep more up to date in future!

AFM the 20 week scan showed that the little one is a girl - so the Prof was right all along    ! Everything was fine with the baby at the scan but I had very high uterine artery dopplers which can indicate a problem with the placenta going forward - so I have another scan due next week, which I am trying to re-book in Edinburgh at the moment. It is causing a bit of anxiety but I am glad it is being monitored. Natasha had the same issue and all was well in the end with her and Alexander so I am focussing on that!

Lots of love to all
xx


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## lulumead

ah annabel a little girl, how lovely. Hope you get to enjoy Edinburgh soon. Am hoping to pop up for the festival for a few days if I can. 


Lee: thanks for sorting all the things with the clinic. I generally really really like Create, I'm just very frustrated as nothing is working for me and yet there is nothing wrong on paper. I know I have to hold fast and hope it comes off at some point.  Maybe you could ask Geeta why it hasn't worked for me and if she could sort that out     


Mrs Otter: please continue to lurk here even if you don't use create, we're very friendly   


Sue: I did enjoy not being a lady on Monday     Might even get to visit him in Canada if I don't get pregnant!


allieallie:  glad to hear the cyst popped! enjoy the summer off....I'm afraid I have still been dying my hair and eating chocolate...hmmm...maybe I should stop this


Buffy: any more news?  I'm waiting for AF to arrive now, handily the pessaries have held it off a bit which makes next months go easier as I avoid my weekend working away.  Hoping your's hasn't come though.


Jo8, londonite, Natasha, lucy, sunshine and Luce: hello! hope you are all ok.


AFM: trying to stay positive, although felt like having a bit of a cry today on the way home but held off!  Massive project on at work for the next 10 days so not much time to think about anything. Need to work out whether to do a medicated IUI or natural again.....hmmmm.....any thoughts ladies?


xxxx


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## LEECOWDEN

Hi Lulumead - so sorry it hasn't worked this cycle - yes wouldn't it be fantastic if that was as easy to sort out.   

Leex


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## jo8

Hi Ladies


Lulumead -sorry it didn't work out again - its really annoying when you get the signs like a bit of bleeding and then the damn BFN

Londonite - hope you're doing ok

Lee - thanks for sorting things out. Still very confused re followups - been told today that will be charged for followup - they will phone in few days for payment and even checked it with 'their manager' but this doesn't seem consistent with what everyone else is being told - not sure if its because we had modified natural cycle but pretty certain at the outset we were told consultations were included.Also feels a bit unfair as if it had worked a scan is included!! Sorry to rant about it but maybe you know the answer??

Annabell - great news about the little girl - hope the next scan is ok

Luce - how's your follow gone -hope it was ok  

Hello to Mrs.Otter, Buffy, Sue, Allieallie, Natasha - hope haven't missed anyone just a lot of people to remember

Getting ready for hols - off to Devon for week so hope sunshine lasts!
Jo x


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## LEECOWDEN

Hi JO8

Yes I do know the answer, found out yesterday.

A follow up consultation is included if you have stimulated IVF, but not Natural. I fully understand what you mean about a scan being included with natural, but not a follow up - I will mention this today to them, and find out their response.

So to sum up:

If you have a natural cycle IVF - follow up consultations are not included, this is because they fully expect you to continue straight on with another cycle, as there is no need for a break in between.

However, a follow up is included if you have a stimmed cycle of IVF.

Leex


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## LEECOWDEN

Another update for you:

Following all your feedback and comments, and my discussions with Geeta - as of Monday all  abandoned cycle fees have been re-evaluated. I don't want to quote the prices until they are official on Monday - but the clinic have listened and will be reducing these. The change in price affects everyone who is currently cycling and future cyclers - obviously the clinic cannot give refunds for past abandoned cycles - hopefully you can understand this.

I am also now responsible for collating all the paper patient feedback forms and will relay this information to both the management team and Geeta.

I have also been addressing the issue of follow up fees for natural cycles with her, and hopefully we will get some good news on this in the next week for you.

 

Lee


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## londonite

I didnt realise this wasnt just a private forum and that all was reported directly to Create.Im in two minds about this actually.
One ,I guess its good as they need to know where their faults lie so they can improve but the other part of me thinks it was really nice having chats in private with others in the same boat at the same clinic.If I wanted to make an official complaint I would have.Couldnt be bothered to be honest, theres been alot to deal with as is.
Either way it will be good to get some clarification.So my cycle as mild ivf-BFN, wait for follow up is still 2 weeks off and receptionist said its £150...I said its not.Who is right?
I like to think I am!

Anyway thanks for your kind thoughts ladies.I have been feeling really lonely this week and its nice to have enquiries. Feeling very positive though, have a plan for what we are up to next and a vague idea of how to stay sane.Taking hubby to Afternoon Tease at Volumpe today so that should be fun.Champagne and a show.Think he will be very surprised as he suspects Im taking him to Enron!


Hope you guys are doing well and enjoying the weather


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## Buffy68

Hello everyone

Londonite - I think it is a private forum, Lee is just passing on general concerns not naming indiviuals etc (correct me if I'm wrong).  I hope you get your free post IVF consultation.

Lee - it's great that CH are reconsidering their abandoned cycle policy.  I think free post IVF consulations should be offered for those trying natural IVF after 3 or 4 cycles to be honest.

Jo - have a lovely sunny holiday in Devon!

Lulu - sorry to hear about your BFN   , has your AF arrived yet?  Would natural have better odds for you than IUI?

Annabell - congratulations on having a girl!  I'm so glad to hear all is well with her and hope that the next scan is reassuring regarding your placenta.  I am sure they will take good care of you, but of course it is a bit stressful knowing about every possible challenge that may arise!  Most pregnancy concerns seem to be resolved over the weeks though, so try and relax.   

allieallie - having suffered from dampness myself I found some changes in my diet helped.  The most important thing seemed to be cutting out cow's milk, cheese and dairy products.

Sue - let us know how you get on at Lister.

AFM - very bizarre but no AF and I am on day 36 now.  Did a pregnancy test on Thursday which was negative.  On a whim did an ovulation test today (I'd had some EWM) and got a smiley face?!  DH is happy anyway.


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## wouldbegreat

Hi
can anyone tell me how much natural ivf and mild ivf is at this clinic as I have heard it's a lot cheaper than ivf with drugs.
Thanks


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## lulumead

hello Buffy: hope your DH is enjoying the smiley face   


Wouldbegreat: probably best to look on their wesbite createhealth.org


Hello everyone else, bit exhausted after running big event yesterday in the North east for lots of young people.  All very inspiring though which is good.


AFM: Af has arrived so trying to work out if i can do medicated or natural IUI, not sure I can take risk with med's this month as can only get to clinic for scan on day 6 & day 10 due to work.  Hmmm, going to try and speak to someone tomorrow.


xxx


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## LEECOWDEN

Hi Londonite - The forum is as private as an open forum can be - I am a past patient of Create and have always used Fertility Friends for my own support - I have now been employed by Create as a patient support coordinator, my job role involves the creation of blogs, an 'official' create forum, a 'private' ******** group, and the support of patients both through written patient feedback and online.

I am independent of Geeta, and work to support the patients in a way that I would have liked to have been supported.

Create clinic is always aware of what is being said in forum, not via me - but from other patients who comment on discussions that are happening on the board. My role this time, has been to try and rectify the issues and clear up any misunderstanding's.

Other clinics read their relevant forums and often will respond.

It is their duty of care to respond to patient's concerns, they are purely doing it for their patient's benefit.

My role here is not to censor discussions or points of view but if there is something that people are not happy about the clinic would like to address it.

Sorry if that sounded like an essay   

As for your consultation fee - if you had a stimulated IVF cycle your follow up is included. If you have any issues about it I would advise talking to the new General Manager 'Martin' who is taking all of these sorts of issues very seriously.

Hi wouldbegreat. The price list is available on their website. If you have natural IVF there aren't any drugs involved , but with mild there will be the additional cost of drugs.

Lee


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## Skybreeze

New home this way >>> http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=240802.new#new


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