# The Single Girls Negative Thread (for those who need it most) Part 2



## beachgirl

Welcome to your new home....please feel free to PM me if you need any clarification on help....


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## winky77

Rose. 

I too felt very sad to have to go trawling thru the Site Index to find the thread again.  And bizarrely I am not even single right now but I still identify so much with the group and the journeys we've all been through. A sticky link is a very good idea. 

I will keep posting.....

..Winky


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## beachgirl

Rose    I'm just at work now but will try and sort out a sticky link when I get the chance x


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## ♥JJ1♥

Rose  I can empathesize with what you say, it is incredible how life changes. I know what you mean about life turning inwards, I hadn't seen a soul for 6 days the other day, as not at work etc- if the man in the corner shop doesn't counts for a pint of milk! I do chat on the phone to my donor's partner ever day and he'd had days off, and I ring my mother everyday but she doesn't know about my TTC at all, and it is to check that she is ok.

Many women who post on the Negative Thread in general here have just had a negative cycle recently, but for us it can be over a year or more ago- I had a gap of a year waiting for DE's and waiting, or having bits of surgery trying to put things back together inside. It does seem strange to not be on the single thread, and I am sorry if as Sharry said that the thread was a source of upset for many people,







MOVED: The Single Girls Negative Thread (for those who need it most) « on: Today at 03:44 » This topic has been moved to negative cycle area.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=236182.0

I have moved this thread to a more appropriate area as it was becoming a source of upset for many people.

I am sure that people didn't ever intend to offend others, I always thought that the single girls thread was like a 'family' as some of us have 'known' each other many years.

I am aware that my baby's EDD is looming on the 16 July, so I know that I will 'dip' around there, as my baby would have been 3, I was saying to my donor's partner that we should planning a birthday party etc instead of plodding on!

L x


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## some1

Ladies - just wanted to pop in here with a big   for you all.  I am just so sorry to read of what happened on this thread yesterday.  I do hope you will still be part of the single women's group.  I was just thinking yesterday about doing a 'hello, how are you' post on the Calling all Single Women thread to you all as I have felt I have lost touch with many of you as sadly you have just been posting on the Negative thread.  Please don't feel like you don't belong with us, you will leave a huge gap...

I      that your dreams will all come true eventually and can't even begin to imagine how tough this journey is for you all 

Some1

xx


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## suitcase of dreams

Hello all,

As the one who started this thread originally I felt I should say a few words, although I refrained from doing so last night because I didn't want to further inflame an already sensitive situation. I guess I knew when I started the thread that it would be a tricky one, and in some ways, although sad, I am not actually that surprised that we've ended up here...

When I set up the thread, I did so because I wanted there to be a 'safe' place for those who had either been ttc for some time, who had suffered losses, or who simply felt that there was very little hope for them at a particular point in time for whatever reason - a safe place where they could express their feelings (and I admit it, the initial thread was set up out of largely selfish reasons - so that _I_ could express _my_ feelings) and know that they were amongst others who were experiencing _the same feelings at the same time _
That's not at all to say that other women (single or otherwise) haven't experienced those feelings on their journey to parenthood, nor to in any way at all diminish the joy and happiness those other women now feel during their pregnancies and with the arrival of their much wanted little ones, but simply to say that there are times when some of us who have not yet achieved our dream need some space to talk about how we feel without worrying about upsetting others or being judged.

I'm not proud of the way infertility sometimes makes me feel - I don't want to be an angry, bitter, envious and resentful person, but sometimes I am, and it helps me immensely to be able to express those feelings and talk about them with people who are feeling the same way right now, it makes me feel normal instead of mad and baby obsessed and most importantly it makes me feel less alone. I'm not angry with those other women who have succeeded where I have thus far failed (indeed I am truly happy for them that they no longer have to go on feeling like I do - it's not a nice place to be at all  ) I'm just angry with the world, with fate, luck or whatever it is that has left me dangerously close to having to accept that I will never have a child of my own. And this is the sort of anger which needs to be vented sometimes or it threatens to overwhelm. And I suppose I just wanted there to be a place where those who needed to could vent, without recriminations.

In a way I suppose this was always going to be a sort of transitory thread. A place you visit because you need to, but you ultimately hope to move on if and when things change for you. Not separate from the wider single women's community, but just a temporary 'pit stop' if you like - somewhere to come when you need, know you will be supported by like minded people, but somewhere you (hopefully at least) would eventually leave behind (sadly no doubt to be replaced by others in their own time of need)
I don't know if I'm expressing this particularly well but I suppose what I'm trying to say is that we are all still part of this wonderfully supportive community of single women and many of us have known each other for some years now and it would be such a shame if that were to change because some have had their babies and others not. That's the double edged sword with a forum like this - it's fantastic to get to know so many people all ttc, but inevitably some will be successful faster than others, some will never succeed, and that's always going to be a tough thing to negotiate.

For my part, I have genuinely celebrated all the successes along the way and I feel truly glad that so many of us have been blessed with bumps and babes. I love to meet up with them all from time to time - it gives me hope and reminds me why I am doing this. But at the same time, sometimes it also makes me hugely sad and envious that I don't have my bump/babe yet , I can't help that, it's only natural. And it's for those times that the neg thread was initiated - not to create division amongst the group, but in fact the complete opposite - to give those who needed it a place to talk about the stuff they can't perhaps say to others, whilst still being able to maintain the great friendships that have developed along the way.

Anyway, I just wanted to explain a bit more why I set up the thread. I feel hugely sad that in setting in up I am in part responsible for the current unpleasantness - infact I've spent most of today worrying about it and I'm in tears writing this now (mind you it's been a stressful day with intrallipids this morning and my sister being rushed to hospital with suspected appendicitus - waiting now to see if they're going to operate - so I think I'm a bit all over the place)

All of that said, at the same time I still believe this thread to be hugely important and necessary so I hope that people will continue posting - although I also very much hope that we all feel comfortable posting anywhere on the singles board, and not just on the negative thread.

As for this thread being moved - I totally understand why the mods have moved it here, and I think for now it's probably the best place for it - but a sticky/link from the Singles Board would be fabulous if you could sort that out for us Beachgirl 

So come on girls, let's put all this behind us and remember that we're all here to support eachother. It's inevitable that emotions will run high - all those hormones on the loose  but let's not let that detract from the friendships we have here...

That's my first and last (albeit rather long winded!) word on the matter, I will continue to post here and elsewhere on the singles board as I have always done, and I hope that others will continue to do so as well,

With love to all, 
Suitcase
x


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## Sharry

Hi

I am sorry that I had to move the thread and I left it in the single ladies area for as long as I could but now feel that this is the best area for your posts, here you can express your feeling without upsetting others as everbody in this area is going through a tough time, but saying that I will be really upset if you dont still post on the single ladies area too.

Sharry xxx


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## ♥JJ1♥

I saw this on the surrogacy thread and thought I would share it! made me  but can relate to it



♀Craig♀ said:


> Such an amazingly powerful song that most on here can relate to


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## suitcase of dreams

No need to apologise Sharry - understand why it needed to be moved. Am sure things will settle down again soon, these ups and downs are only natural when we're dealing with such an emotional and painful journey....as I said above, I'll def still be posting on the Singles Board, and I really hope everyone else will feel the same way too 
Suitcase
x


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## beachgirl

Suitcase of dreams    oh un, what a lovely post from the heart, I can certainly understand where you're coming from..x


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## suitcase of dreams

thanks Beachgirl...I was worried I hadn't articulated myself very well, but I hope everyone knows what I'm trying to say   

  to you too, I can see you've had a pretty tough time of it yourself,

Suitcase
x


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## beachgirl

Thank you    life is pretty tough sometimes isn;t it x


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## katie c

hey ladies   

i'm not a single or a multiple treatment lady (bottled it after two goes) but just wanted to send you all a virtual   

i had a quick read of the previous thread and i will be honest, i'm pretty upset on all your behalf about one or two of the comments you received. very very passive aggressive and undeserved if i may be so bold

we all need time out to rant, it doesn't follow we resent the successful. hell i had several friend successful on their first go, and i couldn't ask for more supportive pals. but on the other hand, yes it does hurt to think 'why them not me?' there is a difference between spiteful envy and wistful longing. and i don't think i've come across a spiteful person on these boards

i so hope you all acheive your dream, one way or another


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## winky77

Suity.....very well said....I am sure we can now get back to some form of normality in so far as this mad mad world of fertility will allow us! 

lol

..winky


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## blueytoo

Suity - beautifully put   I'll admit that I did see this coming and wonder if the thread would be allowed to stay at all. I'm very grateful that it has been allowed to stay.

Had a very lovely but very difficult day today with my best friend. Her 11 day old baby died in April and she also lost a pregnancy a few months before I had my miscarriage as well as having had 4 other miscarriages. We went to a lovely lakes/nature reserve place with the most amazing playground. Our children played together and we both spoke of how there should be two 3 year olds running around with them and she should have a 3 month baby with her too, stopping to BF him every 5 minutes   

There was a big gaping hole for us both today and we wondered whether either of us would ever get pregnant and have a healthy, alive baby again. Neither of us quite believing that a healthy baby at the end of it is a possibility.


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## suitcase of dreams

Bluey -    what a difficult day for you and your friend. Sometimes the amount of pain and sorrow in this world just makes me cry    (I think I'm a bit over sensitive at the moment - wonder if it's the estrogens I'm on?)

Like you I struggle to believe that a baby is a real possibility for me, but there's just enough hope (or desperation) there to keep me going for now. Have pretty much decided if this FET doesn't work then I will have the additional immune tests I have so far resisted (LAD/LIT etc) as well as the 'hidden C' test etc, and if they are positive, have the necessary tx and one last fresh DE cycle (prob at Gyncentrum as no waiting list there) before the end of the year, and if I am still unsuccessful, then I will try to find a way to move forwards without any more ttc - whether that means adoption or finding another way to live without a family. 
If I do that, it will be 3 years, 3 IUI, 5 OE IVF/FET, one m/c, and 5 DE IVF/FET, and I don't think I can take any more of it - emotionally, physically (although ironically I am in better physical shape than ever - never thought it would take infertility to get me to a size 10!) or financially. So I've got 5 months to come to terms with this plan/decision - pretty scary, but I'm working on it...

I'm glad you, and others, are still here and posting - wherever this thread 'sits' on FF, we're all here for eachother,
Suitcase
x


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## midnightaction

First of all I was pretty damn mad this thread had been moved, censorship of comments about INFERTILITY on a INFERTILITY board seemed to me to be the height of hypocrisy !! 

Now though I am pretty damn glad it has moved, first I have never been one to waste time hanging around people who don't want me around. Secondly if my talking about my INFERTILITY on an INFERTILITY board offends you so much I am not entirely sure your the kind of person I would want to come to for support through this difficult journey.

What makes me utterly confused though is the reason the thread was moved, hey I could understand that it may have been moved because of the little show offs that happened last night, but to move it because it was upsetting people ?? Really ?? People talking about their INFERTILITY on an INFERTILITY board was upsetting people........Hmm maybe it's just me who can't quite decipher any logic from that !! No need for an official explanation though I am cool with the move 

*katie c *Thank you for your words of support, it is so wonderful to know that there are still people out there who are empathetic to others feelings 

*suity *You have nothing at all to defend hun, this thread was very much needed and the idea of it had been ignored for so long. When it turns out that people with INFERTILITY are not allowed to talk about INFERTILITY on a board about INFERTILITY then it's a very sad day. I am wishing you love and luck for your up coming cycle !

*Rose- *I am so sorry that you feel so bad as you do, I wish I could do something to help you feel better, but please do remember we are always here for you whenever you need us 

*misti- *I do hope you return to this thread and bullying does not push you away. I left this board for a while because of bullying when certain people were constantly sending PM's between each other about me and taking ever single opportunity to have a dig. I was made to feel like an outcast and "outside" of the very special "cliche" I could have been broken down by it but I wasn't I just blocked them out and concentrated on what was important to me and that is achieving my dream. It is sad when people do those sorts of things, but we have already proved how strong we all are, this is just one more small hurdle to overcome.

*claire*- I don't need to say anything, you know what I am thinking hun, big hugs........can't wait for the cake your gonna cook me in a few weeks 

I can only hope that now this thread has been moved that I am now free to be open and honest on here, whilst trying to remain non aggressive and non confrontational. I am mentioning no names and I hold no ill will to anyone, my energy is much better spent just ignoring and wishing everyone well.

Anyway I can't stay mad for long, I am such a jolly little soul most of the time. I will now say nothing more on the matter and will go back to doing what this thread suggests, supporting the people who need it the most 

Sarah xx


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## blueytoo

Suity - I do promise to try and keep mentions of my DS to a complete minimum on here, today was just so hard. I was with her husband and her children when he and I had to tell her children (and my DS) that their baby brother was expected to die within hours. We all had been at the hospital together just hours before seeing him and it looked like he was going to get better.

I think the idea of having LAD/LIT, hidden C is a good idea. Those are the only tests/tx's I haven't tried as I just don't believe in them but, if I'm still trying in a year or so, I think I too would choose to go down those routes.

I don't know about you but my mum keeps asking me when I'm going to give up, and it winds me up and I answer "never". Whether that's true I just don't know. I think it takes an amazing amount of stength to close a door on a dream.

When is your FET?


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## blueytoo

Sarah -   

xx


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## suitcase of dreams

Bluey - no need to keep mentions of DS to a minimum - secondary infertility is still infertility and besides if you need to post here for whatever reason you are welcome to post here, regardless of your personal circumstances...

I can't imagine how awful the death of a little baby must be, what a heartbreaking thing to have to go through. I know how terrified I was when my beloved niece and nephew had their surgery last year/the year before (cochlear implant so basically cutting into the head under general, and although usually no problem at all, there's always a risk of paralysis and worse...) - seeing little ones in hospital is just awful, and then for them not to get better...huge    to you for today....

Yes, my mum asks me that too, as does my sister. I just say that I don't know and that I'll give up when I'm ready to give up. It does make me mad when they ask though - butI guess people who haven't been there simply can't understand what it feels like to want something so much and not to have any control over getting it...
Not sure I will ever be ready to give up, but also conscious that at some point I will have to draw a line under ttc and look at other ways to have a family or to live without a family of my own but still make children a big part of my life (eg changing my job to work with children perhaps...) - I simply can't go on like I am too much longer - it's too painful and whilst giving up ttc would also be really painful, at least that would (I hope) be a pain which passes with time...who knows?

FET is next Monday - fly out Sunday, back Mon eve so flying visit. Start gestone tomorrow which always makes it feel real - until now I've been a bit in denial despite the estrofem/clexane/pred etc

Sarah - hi hun, glad you're still here. Like you I don't think it really matters where this thread is located as long as we're all here to support eachother, so let's move forward positively with that    And keep the funny ** updates coming - you make me laugh    

Suitcase
x


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## ♥JJ1♥

suity I see you are thinking of the hidden C test, I haven't had this, nor have I ever tested +ve for Clamydia, but my donor's partner said to take the AB's prophylactically, so I took a course of them before this cycle anyway, would you not just treat anyway.  Also I read of the girls sending their menstral blood to Greece, but I would never have enough to send! thanks to Asherman's and v light AF lasting less than a day and no full flow as such.
There is a Dr Toth in NYC that some girls have visited where he treats for hidden diseases I know one girl who went there and some IVAB's, the poor men have injection into their prostate gland!!!

L x


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## suitcase of dreams

JJ - yes, I guess I could just do anti-biotics but reading the Dr G thread it seems to be quite a complex course of different ones they put you on....and tbh I really don't think I have hidden C - I've been single for so long and even before that I was not in long term relationship, so always used protection - and unless I'm much mistaken, you contract chlamydia via unprotected sex no? so think my chances of having it are pretty slim...but would just be one last thing to rule out

the LIT/LAD thing is more likely but I don't really understand it and have yet to be convinced of the tx for it and how it all works, but if this next FET is BFN I will make a further effort to make sense of it and perhaps have those tests done. I will also potentially get my other tests re-done to see where my levels are at now and if that changes any of my immune protocol (eg re-do the NK cells and thyroid etc tests) - with a view to a final cycle in Nov/Dec and then we'll see....

Suitcase
x


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## madmisti

Just a quickie from  me

I want to thank all those of you who have PM'd me or given me support on **. I have been unbelievably upset    (and angry) and your messages of support have meant a great deal, so thank you   

And well said Sarah   

Many of you have said you hope I will continue to post and get the support I need, but sadly I know that is not the right thing for me. I will never feel able to be honest about how I am feeling, and I cannot risk being this upset again   

I may pop on to read occasionally as I do like to see how you are all doing, and it is my most heartfelt wish that all of you achieve the dream very soon       

With my very best wishes
Misti xx


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## Violet66

Hello everyone. 

Misti - not PM'd you but you have my total support. I feel you were VERY unfairly rounded on before. 
I also feel very angry that the thread has had to move here....oh well. Onwards and upwards!


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## sweet1

hi, I don't belong on this thread but must admit to the occasional bout of lurkage, and I just wanted to offer my support to all the ladies on here who have gone through an unbelievably tough journey and are yet to achieve their dream. I hope you all continue to post on the singles boards as well as using this thread for its truly needed and deserving purpose, and I hope with all my heart that you all become mummies one day. xx


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## Mifi

Hi Ladies 

Just a quicky because its so late & I really need my beauty sleep    but couldn't read and run.

I missed what happened on here yesterday so I wont say much as this thread is a clean slate, but I am stunned & shocked        and deeply saddened that this has happened     

Misti       I know you didnt mean it like that      

Suity        too

AF also arrived today so the IVF plan is now in full swing    it really hurts that I am back to square 1 but for as long as I can stand it I will carry on   

Sorry no personals tonight but will come back tomorrow as im just totally drained and AF is killing me       I need my bed and hottie   

Love FM XXXXXXXXX


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## suitcase of dreams

FM - so sorry it was another BFN for you hun    
Wishing you all the very best with your CARE appt and the move (back) to IVF    

And (my final word on the subject I promise) let's just remember what this thread is here for - to support those who need it when they need it most - and put everything else firmly to one side. Onwards and upwards as Violet so rightly says   

Suitcase
x


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## Fertilitychallenged

As a newbie in this thread I could in some way feel relief that we were moved here, the discussions of the last days made me quite uncomfortable with even posting anything - as I am just that: envious, bitter and wishing to hit anyone pregnant that comes along (and if they complain about their pregnancy I'm willing to do anything...) I don't like these feelings and I'm not proud of them, but I have them and I've never thought they wouldn't be allowed. What makes me a good person and friend and not a maniac - is that I never take these feelings into action. I never hold their pregnancies against my friends and I'll suffer through all my workdays (with FIVE bumps within a group of 15) where I'll listen to all the complaints and hopes without making a face. I do all this because I'm actually a normal and well-behaved person. It doesn't mean that I actually - with my mind and my choices - hate mothers and their babies. And somewhere I am actually glad for anyone who doesn't have to be in my shoes and even more for the ones who has been there but is allowed to leave this path. But I need a place where my feelings - the ones I cannot choose - is allowed an expression in words. If it's something I miss within my Swedish SMBC-network it is just that kind of forum. And now I see why, as this thread had to be moved...

/FC - taking a flight to Warsaw and Invimed for my first consultation regarding embryo adoption within 30 minutes...


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## suitcase of dreams

Good luck with your consultation FC - hope all goes well   

Suitcase
x


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## wizard

Hello my lovely negative thread ladies  

Well. Deep breath. Where do I start?

Firstly, on a personal level, I am cross that this thread has been moved  . I do understand why, but I am still cross. I am not posting here because of negative cycles per se (although indeed I have had many). I am posting here because I lost my son at 21 weeks and that has made me, what I feel, the most negative person in world. Negative about life, people and ever having my own (living) child. It insults me that carrying my child for 21 weeks, deciding to end his life and have him killed (people may not like that term, but that is the hard reality for me. I don't regret it, but I have to live with that decision and I can not and will not dress it up) so that he didn't suffer, giving birth to him and cradling and marvelling at him for 11 hours, arranging his funeral and living with the unrelenting grief and despair of losing my child has been 'relegated' to the negative cycle thread. Of course I know that this thread isn't just all about me and my pain, it is about all the ladies who post here and their desperately difficult and painful journeys. And I understand that moving it isn't a slight on me. But really, as we all know, this thread goes way deeper than negative cycles. It feels, rightly or wrongly, that our upset and pain is too much for others. That touches a very raw nerve for me. I am sick of having to think about and accommodate how uncomfortable my pain makes others feel. And as others have said, this is after all, an infertility website. And nobody has to look at this thread it they don't want to. 

That said, now that it has moved I may well post much more freely than I have. So although I feel angry that we have had to move it (or have it moved), rightly or wrongly I think for those of us posting here it is in our best interests. So onwards and upwards folks. 

After Louis's due date I felt better - for about 3 days. I stopped looking at women who were pregnant and thinking that should be me, because after the 4th June (or thereabouts) I would have no longer been carrying him. However the relief was short-lived when I had another BFN. Like lulu (I think it was you lulu, sorry if I have that wrong), I see no point in posting on the 2ww thread as I don't expect it to work and can't deal with all the good wishes. Jeepers, how negative is that?! I am, probably pointlessly, throwing money at IUIs but I can not face another round of ICSI after Louis. I still wonder whether the egg would have fertilised had I done IVF or IUI and in my head I have this image of a sperm being injected into another crappy egg and me potentially going through exactly the same thing again. I know it's not rational but I can not help it&#8230;.. Anyway, back to the story. After the last BFN I nose-dived. For me the pain and loss of not having my son with me is perpetual, ongoing, unforgiving. The reality is I am just not strong enough to deal with failed cycles and yet, like you suitcase and others have said, the thought of contemplating a life without my own family is just unbearable. So I feel like I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. A crazy grieving woman that only wants one thing: a living child.

I have been to a few support groups but I am ambivalent about them. With groups you take the risk of finding people you can relate to and make a connection with and at the same time being driven mad by people who make annoying generalisations and talk incessantly&#8230;. Of course I know that my tolerance levels are zero right now, that I have patience of 2 year old (if that) and of course these people are also suffering pain and heartache (which makes them behave as they do). So I seem to come away feeling somewhat annoyed and irritated and at the same time disliking myself for being so unforgiving. I don't think I have ever been so high maintenance in my life.

Well, enough about me for now.

Misti I didn't actually see your post that seems to have prompted the move, but I do want to say that I am so very sorry about your chemical pregnancy and hope that the issues that have been identified by the doctors are treated and that you are successful very soon.

Suitcase you were very brave to set up this thread. I know we had a few exchanges about it and I did not have the courage that you had. I thank you for that, and I just hope, hope with all my heart that your next cycle is successful. And I think I can honestly say that I will not, in the slightest, feel any negative feelings about that. Just writing about the thought of it makes me smile  . And if it doesn't happen then I hope equally that you find a way forward, through adoption or otherwise, to have that family and be the mother you so very, very much deserve. How is your sister by the way?

Roo I hope that you get the last piece of work in for your degree and I am truly sorry to hear that it is all so tough. I get it. I really do, and I hope you can muddle on to wear that wonderful cap and gown again.

Sarah, my lovely  . It goes without saying that I so want your FET to work. 

And actually as I think about it, there is not one woman here who I would begrudge a BFP. Not a single one. None of us deserve what has been handed out to us. That does not mean I do not get angry, bitter and jealous when I hear of women getting pregnant much more easily then ourselves. There are times in the past few months when I have _raged_ at others' (seemingly easy) successes. But that is not about them it is about me and doesn't mean that I am not happy for them. One FF who has recently given birth was so kind and supportive to me through my very difficult pregnancy and I feel no negative feelings towards her and her success whatsoever. I am truly delighted, and excited, that she is a mum. Being honest, I am surprised how ok - or even good - I feel about it. I might even manage to see them both at some point. I do hope so.

Full Moon I am so damn sorry it was another BFN for you. You have shown such resilience month after month. Just out of interest, was it the same donor you used each time? I hope moving on (or going back!) to IVF has a good result for you.

JJ what can I say about due dates? They are so very very very hard. I couldn't do anything for Louis's. I couldn't work out how to feel about it. It should have been a happy day but I felt so terrible. Maybe next year will be different. Anyway, I'm bringing it back on to me. What I want to say is that I feel for you and will be thinking about you.

Bluey, do not feel that you have to censor references to your DS. This is a negative thread, not a thread for those that don't have children. I appreciate that I got further than many people who post here and am mindful that my talk of pregnancy and giving birth might be hard for others. Had I known what would happen I wish that I had enjoyed the pregnancy and carrying him more, instead of being so fraught and anxious all the time. But hindsight is a wonderful thing&#8230;. I have managed to bring it back on to me again. Apologies. What I am trying to say is your DS is part of your life and your quest for a sibling for him. Talk of him, on my part, is welcome.

Rose I am so sorry you feel so down and sad. I get the not going out. I am almost a recluse at the moment, it is so hard. Now not that I want to be divisive but since we've been hived off the main singlies board, is there a need or wish for a negative meet?! Just a thought&#8230;&#8230; Are you going back for your frosties soon now the dreaded football has almost finished?

Fertilitychallenged good luck with your invimed consultation. Embryo adoption. What a lovely phrase.

Winky you _must_ carry on posting even though _technically_ you may not be single. I am not technically single either, I have a g/f. But I am still making all the decisions about treatment on my own, funding it, and will not be co-parenting. Just as there are alternative families out there, there are also alternative singlies, in my opinion!

Thanks to all of you (single women and others) who have popped on to this thread in support after its move. You are very kind and thoughtful.

Apologies to those that I haven't mentioned personally. I am thinking of you all and although (up until now) I haven't posted much, I do read.

Mammoth post over. Off to watch Desperate Housewives. Thanks for reading  

Wizard x


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## suitcase of dreams

Huge hugs Wizard    

I'm too tired and over emotional to say much more this evening, much less to do full personals but just a quick update on my sister - it turned out to be appendicitus after all. She went down for a laparoscopy around lunchtime today and whilst doing it they discovered the appendix was infected, so they took it out at the same time. She's in ICU and still in lots of pain post op, but doing well and hopefully back on a ward tomorrow and out in a couple of days. I'd been imagining all sorts of terrible things, especially since my friend was so recently diagnosed with cancer, so I am just very relieved that they found what was causing the pain and now the appendix is gone hopefully it's all good from here....

Didn't sleep much last night from worrying about my sister and about all the stuff going on here (I know I shouldn't let myself get so upset by it but my emotions are all over the place right now with impending FET and everything else and I just feel so sad that good friendships have been damaged and I wish it was different) so going to try to get a good night tonight

Back tomorrow with proper personals, thinking of you all,
Suitcase
x


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## wizard

Suitcase, my love and hugs to you.  I hope your sister recovers quickly from the surgery.  I understand about how your friend's cancer will have affected your perception and expectations and I suspect you were stressing terribly and desperately worried about your sister.

What I want to say is try, really try, if you can, to concentrate on you.  Your health and well-being is much more important than what may or may not be happening on a website.  You are NOT responsible for others' feelings either.  I get your anxiety, but I care more about your sleep and well-being in preparation for your upcoming cycle.

Rest well

Wizard x


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## Mifi

Suity I am so pleased to hear that your sister is ok and on the road to recovery    I'm not surprised under the circumstances that you are feeling anxious and stress    please try and be good to yourself     

Wizard huge      I totally identify with many things that you have said    words are not enough so I will    but so pleased you can use us as support    I really cant imagine what you have been through and how you keep on going         

Rose           as well

I too feel miffed that we have been shoved on to this board but I do understand    as hard as it is   perhaps its even for the best?? 

I have gained so much friendship, support and knowledge from many ladies on FF and I will never forget the lovely ladies that have helped me and also touched me emotionally in a way that I thought impossible for 'virtual' friends. I often fantasize that if I became a millionairess I would give you all the funds needed to achieve our dreams as this journey is hard enough as it is without the hurrendous financial burden     but sadly I know its just a dream   It makes me very sad to think of upset on here    afterall this should be a place of comfort for all of us. 

Sorry no more personals again tonight its so late again - geeze I just dont know where the time goes    

Lots of Love FM XXXXXXXXXXXX


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## beachgirl

Morning....well, it's very cloudy and drak here...typical as it's my day off...sending lots of    to everyone x


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## ♥JJ1♥

Wizard I was in tears reading your post, and you have every right to feel that way after your pregnancy and the heart wrenching decisions you had to make with Louis, I cannot begin to imagine what you were and are going through, I am so pleased that you have your gf for support.

I don't ever feel jealous of IF folk getting pregnant as I think that is their baby not my baby, mine is waiting to come to me. Seeing others get pregnant at the drop of a hat makes it hard- like colleagues, young girls in the 'normal world'.


I also feel guilty with my body, not angry at it though, for having an incompetent womb, damaged after my ERPC and mc in 2006- I have never complained or sued the hospital wherer this happened, for various reasons, one I worked there so awkward, two I don't think thst drs set out to harm pts, threee what will it gain? I do feel that with NK cells/immunes etc that my body killed my baby. Dr Scher also said why are you wasting good embryos putting them back into my 'bedrock' (nuturing, supportive womb) and I do think that if the embryos had been put into someone els they would have been babies, which does make me feel guilty for contiuning to try with my womb. Still I say 'why did my baby have to die'

I can echo what others have said about feelings- I feel that emotionally the brighter, sparklier (!), more outgoing,confident person I used to be has gone and died when my baby died. Effecting me in every way 
my career,relationships, finances etc.

Anyway I have to remain positive and look to alternative ways- surrogacy being the next path I think for  us.

Take care XXXX


----------



## GIAToo

Hi Ladies,
Just wanted to say that I am an occasional lurker too and have never commented on the thread as I am still at the beginning of my IF journey (although a painful one due to my recent miscarriage) and I totally understood why you set this thread up.      I'm really sorry that the thread was moved, and I have laid low on the singles boards for similar reasons to those that got this thread moved, BUT you all have my total support and like others have already said, I hope and    that your dreams do come true, sooner rather than later      
GIA Tooxxxxx


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## blueytoo

*JJ *- Lovely words   I'd be really interested in hearing about your surrogacy journey as it's something I've long been considering due to my NK cells and Dr Sher did say it was something I would need to keep in mind for the future. But, it's not possible to get the Parental Order you legally need here in the UK unless you are in a couple so I'd be really interested in how you plan to get round it if you'd be willing to share.

*Suity* - thanks for your kind words. I don't have secondary infertility as DS was an IUI baby after doing home insems for 6 months. I just realised the other day that I was first told I probably wouldn't have children when I was 13 and my GP suspected I had endo and then at 18 the gynae confirmed it after my lap and laser op and said the same thing.

I'm really sorry to hear about your sister   Just another thing you don't need at the moment with so much going on.

Your FET seems to have come round fast  Keeping everything crossed for you hun    

*Misti * - I really do hope that you continue to post, even though you've said you won't. 

*Violet* - I've lost track of where you are with regards to tx  

*FM* - The step up to IVF from IUI can feel huge, because they are so very different and IVF so much more involved. I felt a bit freaked out when I moved from IUI to IVF. I hope you get a tx plan together soon 

*Teddy* - I don't know who you are  but welcome 

*FC *- hope your consult went well 

*Wizard* - so many  for you

*GIAT* - thank you for your support for this thread 

*Sarah* - 

I hope I haven't missed anyone out, I'm really sorry if I have!

It would be really lovely if all the stuff that has happened over the last few days could be finished with now as it's gotten so personal 

Love to all

xx


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## ♥JJ1♥

Bluey re Parental order, I believe but I need to check with Natalie that the law changed to allow unmarried couple to gain a parental order and one of you to be genetically related to the child - so my friend (known sperm donor) would fulfill this.
Take care 
L x


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## blueytoo

JJ - thanks for that. So it seems that it's only an option if you're using a known donor here in the UK. Yet more discrimination for single women    I really hope it's a way forward for you though as you've had such a long journey


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## ♥JJ1♥

es single women stil discriminated againast as  Natalie was campaigning when she last got the su
Surrogacy bill changed for single women op be included.
L x


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## wizard

Today has been very very hard  

I met up with my biological father as he is in London for a few days. He knows all about my TCC journey (well not in absolute detail but the general drift), and about my pregnancy, the decision I had to make and losing Louis. I sent him a photo of me holding Louis shortly after he was born that said 'your daughter and your grandson'. That was a big thing for me because I did not grow up with him, I was brought up with another man as my father who is my dad and who died in 1998, and I do not see my biological father as my 'dad'. Anyway, I have just spent 10 hours with him (4 of them with his wife too), and not once, not a single time, did he ever ask about Louis, mention him or even if he couldn't do that, mention what happened to me. I haven't been in regular touch with him over the past few months but I have said to him that I couldn't put him and his wife up because it's a bit beyond me at the moment, and he also knows I am barely working (partly due to the changes in government meaning there is very little out there but also because I don't have it in me to chase contracts). So although I may not have poured my heart and soul out to him I think there were enough indicators that life is not a bowl of cherries for me. I also said that I didn't mind where we met or what we did so long as it wasn't somewhere overrun with pregnant women or mums with small babies.

Not only did he not mention Louis or ask after me, he also talked frequently about his other grandchildren (not actually his biologically as they are his wife's son's kids), including cute / funny things they said, how he read Thomas the Tank engine to the boy, about the weekends they've had with them etc etc. And I'm talking in detail here. Of course he will talk about them, that's fine and natural but there was no awareness AT ALL that it might be a bit hard for me, or any attempt to refer to them without all the minutiae that drives home, with a crushing force, all the things I will not have or share with my son.

I know that he will not meant to have hurt me and of course people will say that he was probably waiting for me to say something or he didn't know what to say etc BUT the bottom line is I am so damn angry and hurt at the insensitivity and what I currently feel is cowardice to ask me anything. There are so many ways to open it&#8230;. 'I don't know what to say but&#8230;' 'I don't know if you want to talk to about it but&#8230;' and if nothing else then at least 'I am so sorry about what happened'. He doesn't have to say much, I don't want him to be my counsellor and I do not want to bear my horribly vulnerable and raw soul to him but to completely ignore the death and loss of my son is, well, I can't quite find the word. Right now it could be any of these: unforgiveable, cruel, selfish, heartless and as I say, cowardly.

I don't want to hear excuses as to why he didn't say anything. Sadly I know them all too well. I just want to vent how sad, disappointed and ultimately how very hurt, and lonely I feel. Thank you for letting me.

Wizard x


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## ♥JJ1♥

I am so sorry that you are left feeling so upset and angry, like you said you don't want to hear the excuses for their behaviour, but many people after a death find it very difficult to know what to say, I remember this when my father died, but like you say he is your father and should have been able to acknowledge your pain and suffering and the loss of Louis somehow.
I do think it is insensitive to talk about the other grandkids and their activities.

Take care
L x


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## wizard

Thank you JJ    Your acknowledgement and understanding means a great deal to me.

I should try and go to bed really, but still feel very wound up by it all   .  

W x


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## midnightaction

*wizard- *How sad it is that the people we want/need to rely on the most, are the ones that sometimes let us down 

I am afraid alot of people are too busy wrapped up in their own tiny little bubble of perfectness that they just can not comprehend that not everything outside that bubble isnt equally as perfect ! 

Big hugs to you hunny, I am alway here if you want to vent some more 

Sarah x x


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## suitcase of dreams

Wizard, what a sad and difficult day for you, I'm so sorry your father wasn't able to be more understanding 
You feel free to vent any time you need to - that's what we are all here for 
thinking of you   
Suitcase
x


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## blueytoo

Wizard, how insensitive of him to talk so much and in so much detail about his grandchildren. I'm so sorry that the day has so clearly hurt and upset you.

Feel free to vent as much as you need to   

xx


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## Rose39

Wizard - so sorry that you had such a difficult and upsetting time hunny. As the other ladies have said, please feel free to vent on here - sending you a big hug    . 

Rose xx


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## Mifi

Oh Wizard im so so sorry that you have had such a difficult day with your Dad     

It totally astounds me as to how people that are supposed to love you and care for you can say and do things that are just so inappropriate and insensitive     I know that alot of the time these 'incidences' are not meant in that way but to me that just makes them ignorant as well as insensitive      

I was very upset not so long ago by a comment made by my Dad to members of my family at a party in front of me about ttc or my lack of sucess of it!!! It hurt me to the core and I was upset for days    as if I dont feel like a failure enough   

I totally understand where you are coming from       

Always here to send     and listen to your rants    so pleased we are all here for each other   

Love FM XXXXXX


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## Glitterintheair

Hi Everyone, 

I want to say hi to you all, i posted on here once before but although i have then kept up with posts I havn't posted again myself because i've been too scared of facing up to the reality of everything...

I now honestly feel that this is the only place in the world that I am free to be honest and open and able to say what I feel, I hope no matter what that it makes me feel better and not come across as selfish or ungrateful for all the good things that have happened to me. 

At nearly 30 years old last year I decided that having a child was something I wanted no matter what. At 14 years old I was diagnosed with PCOS. For 16 years I have been palmed off from doctor to doctor from specialist to specialist. I have been given medication of every description. I have been told i can never have children no matter what, i have also been told that there is a possibilty too. I am now 31, until April this year I have never once in my life had a period. NOT ONE. This has made me feel unfulfilled as a woman and I have questioned over and over again what i may have done in a previous life, or this one, to be like the way i am. I have had two nervous breakdowns, been through every degree of depression and suffered years of violence and abuse from a partner who eventually left me. 

I was also raped by the doctor that diagnosed me age 14. 

I am now nearer to having a child than I ever have been, through acupuncture and medication and a fantastic specialist I had a period in April, my first ever one. I cried many tears that night, for everything i have been through and everything I may still go through. I feel i actually now have a chance to have a child. 


Yet I still have no support from my mother and it's this i'm struggling with. She spends her life telling me to 'hurry up and have a baby' and that 'you don't have to be married'. She tells me she is ashamed and i embarass her. She doesn't know any of the above. I want so desperately to reach out and ask for her support, i want to take her to all my appointments, i want to be able to pick up the phone to her and say, can we go for a coffee because today i feel i need you as my mum to be there for me. Yet she is never there, she didn't even know that i don't have periods, she only knows what she asks me, and because of her reactions i am too scared to tell her. I just don't know anymore, I don't want to go through this alone but because i am single it's so difficult and my family mean the world to me. I honestly don't know which way to turn. 

Thanks for giving me a safe space to say everything. Gem xx


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## Rose39

Gem - I couldn't read and run. Thank you for being so brave to share your TTC journey with us. I am so sorry that you've gone through such an awful time - you are coping amazingly well hunny and it is lovely hearing how positive you are as you have made significant progress towards your dream of having a child    .

In terms of getting support from your mum, it must be so hard not to have her support right now. There are other single ladies on FF who have had problems around members of their family being supportive of their journey (me included) and it can be very upsetting. It isn't about you, it's about their own issues and problems they have inside themselves, that they can't be kind or understanding. 

Do you have friends or other family members who can support you as you're going through your treatment? It's good to find a source of support, even if it's not your mum, as there are lots of things to think through in this process. Apart from the lovely ladies on FF, I found counselling very useful, as I could talk to someone who was non-judgemental, impartial, and who could listen and help me find answers when I was really struggling. I'm not sure if you've considered this before, but I know that other single ladies have found this helpful, especially when we don't have anyone to talk through our hopes and concerns with. I think that most UK fertility clinics usually have a counsellor linked to them, or could refer you to one - it's very common for people having treatment to have counselling sessions. I'm sure that other ladies on here will come along soon and provide suggestions.

Please feel free to post on here as much as you want/ need to hunny. We're all here to support each other.

Sending you a big hug    

Rose xx


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## suitcase of dreams

Gem,

What a terrible terrible time you have had, and how very brave of you to be able to talk about it to us here and now. Sending huge virtual    your way. 
But how wonderful that you are now a step closer to your dream of having a child, it's great that you have found a specialist who can help.

Without knowing you or your mum, I'm hesitant to give advice, but I wonder if you just simply need to sit her down and tell her everything you have been able to tell us here, and give her the chance to really understand how hard this is for you and how much you need and want her help and support. Or, perhaps, if the thought of saying this to her is just too daunting, could you write her a letter? Or even print off what you have written here and send/give it to her? Sometimes it's easier to say it in writing first and then talk about it. 
My mum is essentially very supportive of me ttc, but she rarely asks me about it. I thought it was because she didn't care, but we talked about it and now I understand that she's just worried about upsetting me and making it worse by asking me lots of questions. Once we'd figured that out, it was fine! I know she's there to listen if I want to talk, but I also know she won't ask unless I bring it up - and that works for us   
So perhaps your mum just needs to hear from you what you need/want from her?

And then as Rose says, the other thing is to find other people to support you too - a close friend or another member of your family perhaps?

And of course do remember you're not alone - there are lots of us here in cybersspace who understand how hard this ttc journey can be and we're here for you when you need to talk. 

Take care, and I hope you manage to work things out with your mum,
Suitcase
x


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## wizard

Gem, I want to add to Rose's and suitcase's comments about how very brave it is for you to have posted and shared you experiences.  I am so sorry for all the pain you have suffered   

Regarding advice about families, I am far to angry with mine right now to be able to offer anything particularly useful!  But I do get how disappointing it can be when they are not there for you.  Only you can weigh up whether to be more honest with your mother, which is of course a risk.  I know that when I have tried to be honest with family sometimes it has helped and paid off hugely and sometimes it hasn't.  But no times do I regret doing it, painful though it might be.

Take good care of yourself and post on here as many times as you need.  We are here to read and offer what we can.

Wizard x


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## beachgirl

Good Morning, back from a hen weekend away so will read back and catch up today ( got the day off work), big hugs to everyone


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## blueytoo

Gem - it sounds like you've had an absolutely terrible time    but I am so pleased for you that you have managed to find a specialist that can finally help you.

I have no advice on families but I hope you manage to sort things out with your mum in some way.


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## Fertilitychallenged

Hi again,

I've been without internet for a while (disaster!) but finally up and running again.

Wizard, I'm soo sorry about your father, no explanaitons of his behaviour needed - it's you who's here and you who are in need of support (if he needs it he can have it otherwise). The fact that he didn't even recognize that it was terribly insensitive to talk so much about his other grandchildren not once mentioning the one grandchild you gave birth to upsets me more than I can say. I can't imagine how I'd feel if my parents would do something like that to me. They rarely say the "right thing" but the edge is taken off by my mother always coming back to saying (with a small voice, evidently hurtint from having to say it): "I don't know what to say to you. I'm your mum and I have no idea what to say to my child in this situation" She just doesn't know, and who would, and she's brave enough to admit it without just brushing the pain aside. I so wish your father would have been strong and sensitive enough to do just that.

Gem, I'm so sorry to hear what a terrible journey you've had. I admire you for not giving up but trying to make a good life for yourself. I can't seem to find the words, they become small when I write them down. But, as my mother did, I don't know what to say.

I hope you can have other people supporting you but your mum. I'm afraid that a woman who can say her child is embarrassing her maybe would have a hard time taking in and supporting you should she know what you've been through. Actually, even though my mum evidently is a sound and warm woman - she and my father is not my biggest support going through treatments. They know about it, and they know I'm hurting. But I tend to give them this as words (saying that I hurt and that I'm scared rather than showing them emotions) as I feel it would only get them worried, not that they would be able to support me emotionally.

Ego> I've been to Poland for my first consult, which went very well. I'm ashamed to say that my biggest fear was coming to a rundown communist building with antique instruments and no-one speaking English... Which of course wasn't true at all. Well, the house was a bit rundown, but the clinic was modern and simple to get around and my doctor's English was close to perfect. And she seemed to have a bigger grasp on treatment-options and tests than my very western danish doc. So, I'm now on a waitinglist for embryos. If embryos come in, she'll book them for me and when I'm done with my last IVF I can go straight to treatment in Poland (unless no embryos has been released for adoption yet, then I'd have to wait of course)

And a week ago I started up my third attempt with IVF, SP again. First scan showed 4 follicles, it's coming to a point where I don't get upset by it. I'm 30 years old but my ovaries seems to think otherwise. But, on the plus side, my 6-dayscan has so far showed 2,3,4 so at least it's increasing. Previously my 10-dayscan has showed 3 and 4 so could we guess it's 5 when I go to Denmark next? Although first time the third was lost at EC and second time one wasn't fertilized - so it seems I get as many embies as I have follicles day 6. Unfortunately they all divide somewhat slow - but at least they don't arrest... My hopes for IVF 3 is... low... I guess I'm mostly reaching for Poland.

Welwell... have to inject myself now...


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## Glitterintheair

Hi, 

Thanks guys for all your kind words, you have no idea how much you've helped me already    

Having spent the last few days in tears and cried it all out I now feel a bit stronger   Got my referral letter through now so it's all a waiting game for appointments but at least i'm on the way..

My Mum has gone on holiday for 2 weeks so I get a bit of a break then if i feel i can when she comes home i'll chat to her and i'm sure that would help too.

You are all so lovely I wish I could invite you all round for chocolate cake! xxxxxxx


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## suitcase of dreams

Gem - glad you're feeling a bit better now, and good news re referral - hope the appt comes through soon. And I never say no to chocolate cake - even if it's only virtual    

FC - glad consult went well in Poland, but hope things work out on the cycle so you don't even need it    

As for me, struggling a bit on day 8 post 6 day transfer. Am intending to test on Friday or Saturday by which time if it's positive it would be showing up, even if OTD is a rather conservative Monday (and I know I'll have to stay on the meds until then regardless)
Pretty sure it hasn't worked and I just don't know what I'm going to do    
Now rationally I know there's no way of knowing one way or another right now and it's not over until the fat lady sings/until I test on OTD etc etc but there's no point telling me that because I am far from rational at the moment....and I'll probably just shout at you (no, not really, but you know what I mean I'm sure...I'm at that point where nothing anyone says is the right thing....)
I know you can't answer this question and really I'm asking myself not you, but am I going to cope with a BFN this time? I think I am reaching the point where I have to accept that I simply cannot have children. Some women can't, and it would seem I am one of them. But I just don't know how I am going to get past this. I can't imagine a life without a family and I just don't know what I am going to do    I don't mean this in a suicidal way (no need to call the police/Samaritans or anything!) but I simply can't see the point of life without children, and I'm at a complete loss how to move forwards
Now you could say I'm being presumptive here since I don't know the outcome of my tx, but I'm pretty sure it's negative and I need to somehow prepare myself mentally for that which I guess is what I'm doing now. But I just feel so hopeless about it all, so hopeless and so angry - why is this happening to me? Why can't I get my miracle?

Sorry folks, you know what the last few days of the 2WW are like, like I said there's nothing anyone can say or do to make it any better, just needed to get it out somewhere...

Will check back in when I've tested at the end of the week - hoping against hope I am proved wrong, but really not anticipating having any good news to share   
Suitcase
x


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## wizard

Suitcase, I'm not going to say anything    because all that you say are feelings and possibilities and they are all, with the exception of the success you aren't anticipating, very very hard things to deal with.  When you feel it hasn't worked then you feel it hasn't worked.  Nothing can really take away from that.

But what I can say is how mightily impressed I am that at the equivalent of 14dpo you haven't tested!  You are waaaaay more controlled than I am, as I start about 8dpo   , and perhaps for you by not testing sooner you are still living with the possibility of success.  Whichever, I am still incredibly in awe of you.

Sending you much love and hugs and I will be perpetually checking for your news.     

Wizard x


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## suitcase of dreams

Wizard - I'm only not testing because I can't bear the thought of how I am going to feel when it's negative, so actually it's cowardice rather than bravery. Once I've tested I have to deal with the emotions for real, whereas until I test it's still abstract if you know what I mean....although that said I'm feeling pretty crap anyway so perhaps it's pointless trying to pretend and I might as well test anyway? Have plenty of pee sticks so perhaps I'll test tomorrow....
Trouble is we all know that I will have to continue the meds and not be able to move on either practically or emotionally until OTD which is Monday - so quite a few more days to go yet   
I won't post the result officially until Monday on FF (can't deal with all the posts telling me to wait until OTD and hold on to hope etc etc - you know how it is) but I'll mail/PM you if there's any news of note before then   
Thanks for your support, hope you're doing Ok, I think of you often,
Suitcase
x


----------



## blueytoo

Suity - I soooooo know what you mean about the "wait until OTD" messages. They've always driven me mad, even though kindly meant, as I've never made it that far, AF always arrives about 6-9 days p3dt, except when I got pg with my DS, then I didn't even get any spotting. So for me, I know what my body does. I do believe that some women genuinely know whether they are pg or not before test day.

Still thinking of you and still keeping everything crossed   

xx


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## suitcase of dreams

Thanks Bluey   

I always bled early with cyclogest but gestone seems to do the trick of keeping AF away, so I know I've just got to stick it out. The one time I was pg, I knew though...and I don't feel it this time, just like all the other neg cucles, so I'm not optimistic
Just don't know how I'm going to cope   
Have arranged to work from home Mon/Tues so I won't have to face anyone, and am seeing my counsellor next Thurs, but at the moment it just feels like the rest of my life is stretching out in front of me completely empty and I just can't see the point....ugh


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## wizard

I'd just like to offload a little folks if I may.

Following on from my last post about my biological father, I met up with him yesterday afternoon before he headed back up North. I was ambivalent about it, partly because of what happened on Thursday and also because my heart and my soul feel like lead and if I don't know whether people are going to be nice to me then I fret. That sounds pathetic doesn't it? 'If people are going to be nice to me'&#8230;. But in reality that's what I want. People to be nice to me, to be kind to me, to be warm and friendly. Just to be nice.

Anyway. We met up again for a few hours. To cut a longish story short I asked him why he spent 9 hours or so with me on Thursday without once ever mentioning Louis, or my loss, or referring in any way to what had happened. The answer was because I hadn't told him about the pregnancy sooner, that it was always a one-way street with me (my way) and I make things so difficult. He also told me that his wife agreed with him about me (his wife, incidentally, has met me about half a dozen times).

I can not describe how I felt when he said this. We were at the South Bank and I just wanted to walk straight in to the Thames. I couldn't find words to respond. I was essentially being punished for not being able to tell him about all the problems with the pregnancy sooner. Ultimately he felt left out. The idea that he could feel 'left out' of all those agonising scans I had, week after week, where I bargained with all and sundry to make things ok, where I saw my baby move and wriggle and heard his relentless strong heartbeat and then had to make the decision to stop his heart, to kill him, the idea that he could feel left out of that is just absurd in the extreme. It wasn't some romantic, Hollywood sob-story for all to share. It was my son, my grief, my loss and my pain. I tried to say that I couldn't deal with what was happening throughout all those scans and hideous weeks, let alone share and deal with people asking me questions, trying to tell me it would be alright etc, me furious with them for saying that because they couldn't know that and were only trying to help etc. Heavens I couldn't even speak to my g/f about what was happening. I was hell to be with and I know it. I kept the pregnancy so private because I could barely, very barely, deal with how I felt about it, let alone anyone else. I tried to say that it had nothing to with him (incidentally he knew weeks before either my mother or my sister). But it fell on deaf ears. I sat there, humiliated because I could not stop myself from crying whilst he sat opposite stony faced.

I came home on the tube, with tears just pouring out of me. The only thing I wanted was for no-one to ask me if I was ok. I was so embarrassed but could do nothing to control it. I got home and was so consumed with rage and anger at him and his egotism that I wanted to pull every single piece of glass and pottery out of the cupboards and smash every one to smithereens outside my back door. Instead I punched a wall and hurt my hand  . I lay in bed, my eyes wide open staring in to the darkness and replaying our entire conversation till the small hours. And again today.

How DARE he make this about him? How DARE he be so selfish, so callous, so egotistical and so deliberate in his actions? Of course it is because I have hurt him that he has treated me like he did. But the idea that it was calculated and intentful on my part is just crazy beyond belief. And then to 'punish' me by ignoring what happened? Not only would no decent father do that, no decent human being would either.

Thank you for, yet again, for allowing me to vent. 
An exceptionally, unbelievable, furious Wizard x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Oh Wizard hun, I'm so sorry things are so tough for you with your dad. I know there's nothing I can say to make it better, it's so true when they say we can't choose our families...
Wish there was more I could do or so, but meantime sending huge huge hugs     

Suitcase
x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Wizard I am lost for words about your father and his behaviour towards you, I was floored reading your post and his actions- I was in the camp from your previous meeting that it was probably too awkward/diffcilut for them to discuss the loss of a baby and not knowing what to say- not a premeditated plan to punish you for not telling him before.  At what point does a parent stop having unconditional love and care for their child? I cannot offer you any advice, only my deepest sympathy not only for your loss of Louis but the awful situation.  Have you gone to a counsellor, at least they are neutral just listen and are a place to vent your anger/emotions/tears and we have no expectations from them.  I found it very helpful and went for about 8 mths.  

Suity I hope that you are hanging in there for the last few days of you 2ww- my fingers are crossed for you! You know my views on testing early I never have as I always want to be PUPO for as long as possible nd live the dream a bit before crashing down, and I ahve never bled before.

Hi to everyone  
L x


----------



## blueytoo

Wizard - I am just floored about your father and his actions. I'm sorry I don't have any words that will help. I'm just so sorry that you are having to go through all this   

Suity - hope you're hanging in there still   

JJ - are you planning your next cycle yet? Have you made any decisions?   

xx


----------



## beachgirl

Wizard    I'm just absolutely speechless hun


----------



## Sima

Wizard - words fail me so have a   on me.  I think JJ put it eloquently when she talked about unconditional love.  I don't know what has happened to you biological dad's love but it seems to be quite skewed.  I am so, so sorry that you have to deal with your father's issues when you are still dealing with your own grief.  Strange that even when we are all grown up we still look for our parent's approval/support.  Please do not hold on to your anger but let it out.  Post on here if you need to speak to your gf but what ever you do do not bottle your feelings up.  Take care of yourself.    

Suity - I am keeping my fingers crossed for you over the next few days.  I know that this time is very difficult for you and you struggle to stay positive.  The only thing I can say is you are in my (and I am sure all of the other singlies on here) thoughts and no matter what the outcome we will be here to support you every step of the way.

Hi Gem - I am sorry that you are having to post on here so early on into ttc your journey. I do hope things work out for you.  I think the other ladies have give you some good advice especially when it comes to dealing with your mum.  Have you managed to find a specialist who works with ladies with PCOS?  I am sorry that life has dealt you a bad hand but hopefully things are beginning to look up for you.  Your first  period is a good sign......roll on the next.


----------



## Fraggles

Hi All

Suity I so know what you mean. I know people are well intentioned and mean to keep me positive during 2WW but if I get a bfn I need to start accepting it rather than holding out for a few days that I will be one of the few who has a late implanter, it also makes it worse to hold a little hope after getting a bfn. here's hoping for you.

Wizard am so sorry you are having a tough time with you Dad. I know there is nothing I can do or say to take away the pain but am sending lots of hugs.

F x


----------



## Violet66

Suity - hope you have some good news for you. The feelings you describe are ones we all identify with...so no lectures about waiting for test day from me!

Wizard - don't know what to say...maybe keep your distance for a while - some families are just toxic, like the others said we can't choose them but, as adults, we can choose if we have them in our lives


----------



## Glitterintheair

Hi Everyone,

Hope you are all ok, i've had a crazy week but wanted to say a few things first..

*Wizard * I am so truly sorry for your father's actions, as you know I have huge issues with my Mum and the love you should be receiving the most is just not there, I question at what point did this become something other than a child needing a parent and I hope we can all support you even if he can't...  

*Suity * my heart goes out to you too and we are all here to support/listen when you just can't cope anymore, I somehow hope you are resting, take care  

As for me, well I am having a break from all the emotions my Mum throws at me while she is on holiday, it's awful I feel like i'm on holiday too!

I've had a busy week, tuesday was an appointment with my PCOS specialist and now I have been transferred to Coventry CRM I thought it would be a last appointment with him and a kind of 'bye and thanks for referring me'.

However, that has all changed as my ultrasound showed a tumour on my ovaries so I now have to deal with that first and the same day my appointment letter came through with a date at the CRM, I couldn't believe it. So, I am going to both and see what happens though I will be honest with both of them, I have a date for a pre op assessment (they have already said they want to remove the tumour), and I just have to think positively that this is a good thing and at least they have found it!!

Tonight I am going on my staff night out, it is an all you can eat chinese buffett and that includes a chocolate fountain for pudding, bring it on!!!!

Although I am feeling nervous and scared, I will enjoy tonight.

Love to you all  Glitter xx


----------



## Fertilitychallenged

*Wizard* - I'm soo sorry about your father. Or whoever he is, because that is not the behaviour of a father. Or any important adult I choose to keep around either... I's the actions of a jealous child or ranting teenager. Not a father, and never ever a dad. I'm actually blood boiling angry with him on your behalf right now.

*Suity* - I too understand the feeling of not wanting to do the test and see reality in the eyes, even though I am not yet at full stop fertilitywise. Even more I recognize the not wanting to share the result, as I could smack everyone wanting to give me hope that the result might change. I need to deal, not prolong. But I'm still keeping my fingers crossed, hoping you're wrong about your feeling of the outcome.

*Gem* - What a terrible time you're having even before getting into the starting blocks. I'm so sorry to hear about your new setback and the prospect of operation. I can't imagine how scared you must feel about all this.

_Ego_ - I am finally, many days later than expected, ready for EC on Monday. I've had to go to Denmark three times this past week and my body is totally beat from 30 hours of travelling in only six days as well as the hormones messing with me. The headache is, as before, strong as a migrane-attac and on top I've ended up bleedy and tearful (never had that one before). And it feels like a lot of pain for poor result - 4 big follies are ready for EC and one smaller they will try to aspire. My lining is better than before, but it usually is good. Got a hopeful comment about this from my doc, and I don't think he expected me to choose that time to come down with tears - shakily saying that the lining didn't really matter when the embies never wants to play there anyway... But I guess he's met hormone-monsters before. Well, finally I'm done stimming and going to take the trigger-shot tonight. Monday I'll go for EC and Wednesday I will - good willing - meet my tiny ones again.


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Gem - big hugs for you    so sorry to hear about the tumour, but at least they've picked it up and can sort it out. And great that you are enjoying a 'holiday' from your mum right now   

FC - big    for you too. What an exhausting and stressful week, no wonder you are feeling over tired and tearful. But 4 follies is great, and a good lining too, sending lots of     for Monday's EC and hope you have a relaxing weekend

Right girls, you have all been so wonderful and kind and supportive and it's making me feel really guilty so I'm going to come clean. When I posted on Weds I lied when I said I hadn't tested - I tested Weds morning and it was negative and hence why I was feeling so utterly low and desperate in my post. It was 10 days past 5 day transfer and I genuinely thought if it didn't show up then, that that was it. But I didn't want to admit I'd tested because people then just tell you to wait until OTD and not lose hope etc etc. I spent Wednesday feeling so miserable, sent off for info packs on adoption and was completely ready to give up as I just didn't feel I could put myself through this again.

And then I tested at 3am on Thursday (same Tesco brand of tests as I'd used the day before) and it was a BFP. Needless to say I didn't go back to sleep....and I haven't slept all that much since my mind is racing so much. Later on Thursday morning I got 2-3 weeks on a Clearblue Digital too and then having said I wouldn't go down the Beta HCG route because it's so stressful, Dr G (immune consultant) recommended I did get bloods done so faffed around Friday looking for a private GP to do it (thanks to my GP being so unsupportive and telling me I was mad to take the risk of having IVF tx abroad and she wanted no part of it). Anyway bloods on Friday which was 11 days post transfer were 647 which I understand is a good number. Have to have re-test Monday to see if they've doubled though...

I wasn't going to post until OTD on Monday but you ladies have just been so amazing and fantastic and I feel terrible lying to you all, so there you go - for the moment at least I have my much wanted  BFP - can't even believe I'm posting that, I never thought the day would come.

BUT, as much as I am excited and relieved and happy, I'm also bl**dy terrified. I've been here before and it's all gone wrong and I know it's very very early days. It feels very very fragile and I'm too scared to plan anything incase it's taken away from me. I'm so grateful to have got to this point, but have no idea how I'm going to get through the next 3 weeks to the scan (it was at the 7 wk scan last time that I found out the pg was prob not viable and I had to wait a week for a re-scan and then ERPC, and although I'm trying to be positive this time round and there's no reason why it should happen again especially with DE, I'm just petrified that I'm going to have to go through that again and I simply don't know if I could bear it...)

And after all the 'difficulties' on this thread and the singles board in general recently I'm also feeling a bit sensitive about telling people my news, especially those of you who are still waiting for your BFP - which is why I wanted you lovely folk here to know before anyone else. 

If you would prefer me not to post here for a while I will completely understand - and feel free to PM me if you'd rather not say anything publically. When things flared up here I made my views on this thread clear, that I saw it as kind of a transitory place for people to pass through or in and out of when they needed to, and where they could be assured of being amongst like minded people who were experiencing the same things they were, at the same time. And to be fair, right now I am not experiencing the same things as most of you, although I wish I were/we all were if you know what I mean   

So it may be more appropriate for me to take my early pg fears/worries elsewhere and I am happy to do that. There are plenty of threads for waiting for scans and recent BFPs etc so from now on I will restrict my pg related comments to those threads
I will def continue to read here though, and to follow your journeys and stories - although many of us have never met in person I feel so close to you all and I just want you all/us all to get our happy ending sooner rather than later

I don't know if I've got my happy ending yet, I guess I'm one small step closer, but there's still several mountains to climb (lots of mixed metaphors there   ) but I am so very happy to have the chance at least

Ok, that's enough from me, I'm feeling incredibly emotional at the moment and I'm not sure I've expressed myself quite right above but hopefully you will all understand what I mean (and forgive me for the little lies about not testing earlier in the week too   ) 

love to you all,
Suitcase
x


----------



## wizard

Thank you *all* so very very much for your support and understanding about my father. I am so touched by and grateful for your comments and posts. In the grand scheme of things I am actually not too bad about it. Hurt, upset, angry and even puzzled but at the moment I have bigger fish to fry and more important things on my mind. It's 6 months since I lost Louis and it still feels like yesterday. Whe the hell will it get any better?    That and a recent chem pregnancy and I feel sh**e.

*Fertilitychallenged* - how very stressful. The drugs and how they make you feel just make fertility treatment so much harder to manage. I feel for you, it's not a nice place to be  I've got everything crossed for you for Monday.

*Gem* the tumour must have been such a shock, I'm so sorry. I hope it's sorted soon and I'm glad that everything else seems to be moving for you.

*Suitcase*, already said it my email and on the phone. I am just ecstatic for you and still dancing around my office  I understand all your worries, I just hope that the passing of time alleviates your fears. I want to use lots of smileys but will perhaps save those for a more appropriate thread. How the heck can you get a BFN and 2 days later have a beta of 647? Bl00dy useless tests!!

Love to all

Wizard xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Oh Suity that is fantastic news I have my fingers crossed for you. Congratulations on your bfp

Gem- I really hope that the tumour is removed and doesn't turn out to be anything nasty and that you are soon back on TTC road.


L x


----------



## Rose39

Suity - absolutely thrilled for you hunny! So lovely to have good news on this thread. I'm sure it gives several of us hope that it can happen! (including me!) I have a huge smile on my face, just so pleased for you.     

Rose xx


----------



## midnightaction

*suity *Wow truly amazing news, I had my suspicions, you seemed somewhat more at ease the last 48 hours. 

This has been such a long time coming for you, and it is so utterly deserved, in fact I feel a little tearful as I write this because I am just so happy for you(Probably doesn't help that I am high on several hormones !!  )

I would love you to stay on this thread as I feel it is not just a thread for ladies who are currently feeling negative, it is a place for ladies who understand what it is like to feel negative(If that makes sense!) and you deserve to be here, but I understand if for both you and others it doesn't feel right........hey either way I am happy !! 

AFM- Think this cycle is gonna be cancelled, for the exact same reasons as the last one. Right now I am angry and p*ssed off, and just can not believe how much longer I have to go through doing cycle after cycle.  6 years is a long time to be having treatment and I wonder whether it is time to actually have a life as I missed the whole of my 20's battling this up hill struggle and frankly I think it must be my turn to have something go right. Anyway I won't dwell and I don't really want to talk about it, I just want to get my head down, hope things might change over the next couple of days, and feel sorry for myself a bit !! 

Love to all you lovely ladies

Sarah xx


----------



## blueytoo

*Suity* -   fantastic news hun. I am so, so pleased for you. I also understand completely that there is a long way to go yet due to your history. I will just keep everything crossed for you. Your HcG number is very high  

*Sarah* - I've already emailed you


----------



## suitcase of dreams

thank you all for your lovely words and congratulations


----------



## midnightaction

*bluey- *Thanks hun I got your email, will reply tomorrow as tonight I feel like locking myself up with a big bar of chocolate and a Keeley DVD ...........with have my sensible and practical head back on tomorrow and will have a plan in mind for what to do next

Big  as always

Sarah xx


----------



## Sima

Suity Congratulations.  I am so happy for you though I can understand why you are feeling cautious.

I thought I would have a sneaky look on this thread because I was so sure you had got a BFP because as someone else said you sounded so positive on the other threads and from past experience I know you tend to go all quiet if you got a negative.

I will be going on holiday from tomorrow for the next week so will not be able to pop in and see how things progress over the next few days but I will be thinking of you and all of the other ladies on this thread.  It is so nice to get good news that I do not think one should ever feel embarrassed or guilty to share it even if it is on the negative thread.  As the others have said we are all here to support each other and that means in good times and in not so good times.


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Thank you Sima    And I hope you have a lovely relaxing holiday

...it seems I'm a hopeless liar then and most of you had guessed something was up! 
I guess it all just feels a bit unreal and I wasn't posting because I couldn't quite believe it was actually happening. But you are all so wonderful and supportive and I just couldn't keep it in any longer. Thank you all again so much for your kind words and thoughts, it means so very much, I'm getting quite    (in a nice way) 

Suitcase
x


----------



## lulumead

Hello lovely ladies....sorry I've only just tracked this thread down   


Sending big     to everyone, some very difficult times.


Wizard, extra hugs to you for the situation with your Dad   , and getting through (not even sure what the right word to use is, sorry) Louis's due date, must have been very very hard.  I think you are being amazing. Sending you lots of love.xxxx


And Suity..        ....I don't think you should disappear from this thread.  We all need a bit of hope, and you have been such amazing support for everyone on here.  I'm predicting twins.   


Big     everyone else.
xxxx


----------



## Mifi

Juast got home from a Bday party    and logged on to see your news!!!!!

OMG Suity I couldn't read and run I am so so happy for you that is just fantastic news      I totally understand your apprehension but       with all my heart that all is well and you have a happy healthy pg          I know you are probably feeling terrified    I feel terrified for you but if there is any justice in this world this WILL be the one for you         I am       buckets im so relieved for you           please keep posting so we dont worry about you        OMG im I just so so so happy for you   



Love FM XXXX


----------



## beachgirl

Congratulations Suitcase on your BFP, good luck for Monday


----------



## Fertilitychallenged

*Suity* - Marvellous news! I'm soo glad for you, even though I of course understand your fears. And I myself don't need you to leave this thread. My negative feelings is exclusive towards women with an easy path (I know they can't help it and I really don't want anyone to go down my path...). Your pregnancy falls into the hope-factor category of things.

*Sima* - have a great holiday

*Sarah* - I'm so sorry to hear about your lining causing problems again... It must be even harder to cancel than having BFN's. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for change in a couple of days though. I do understand what you mean about "loosing life" during this journey. I haven't been in it for as long, but I find myself surprised that I'm 30 already, having spent more than 3 years TTC. It's like everything else in life gives way, and I want it back. I want to be able to love and laugh again. Yet I'm not ready to deal with not getting pregnant. I hope you find strength.

*Wizard* - I'm glad to see that you're mostly angry towards your father (which he deserves) even though the distractions are so so hard. I can't imagine how you feel, and I won't say it will get better. I don't know that. But 6 months is not much compared with the life you imagined and the whole life you should have had with Louis. I wish it will ease up a little soon, so you can breathe again. My words seems so small, I hope you get my meaning anyway.

AFM - I don't feel my ovaries today which I usually do after the trigger. So now I'm worried the follies has already left prematurely. Always something to worry about. Once again I'm taking the overnight bus for Copenhagen tonight and tomorrow morning I'll know for sure if they're still in there.


----------



## Violet66

SUITY ....wow wow wow. congratulations. i know, i know, early days....but it's still very exicting!!!


----------



## Fertilitychallenged

Hi again girls,

I'm on the train bound for Copenhagen so I did get to EC the other day. But in spite of higher dosis of stimulation, they only managed to collect 3 eggs. Which is just marginally better than my first IVF, when I was stimming with clomid and a teeny dose Gonal. And it's worse than last time. When I first started out I had hopes for frosties, by this time I just go through the cycle hoping to have _anything back in the end. I'm dreading the phonecall right now. The clinic opens in 20 minutes and I would expect it to come in in between 35-80 minutes if it should come. I've already been travelling for 1 h 40 min so I'll be an hour from Copenhagen when the call comes. The fact that I have had low division twice doesn't really concern me now. I'm sure it has happened again, I'm glad if I can get to ET. How am I supposed to do this one more time if I fail? I can't seem to find the strength that I need._


----------



## Fertilitychallenged

I didn't get the call. Instead ET was cancelled on sight. No embryos survived, although all was fertilized and looking good yesterday.

I can't even begin to describe my feelings. One second I'm totally numb, the next I cry my eyes out (first time in these three years). I want to scream, I hate my body, I hate myself, I've lost all hope in ever concieving. And yet I'm not home. I'm on the train back, not until 4 hours from now I can close my door, hug the cats, drink a lot of wine, smoke a pack of cigarettes and begin to pick up the pieces of myself again. In 5 weeks I'm due to start down regulation for IVF 4.


----------



## wizard

FC     

You must be devastated, and feel absolutely terrible.  I am so so sorry.

Take some time for yourself.  Enjoy your wine and cigarettes and stroke your cats.  Do whatever you need to do to deal with this cycle and how you feel.  I hope, that with a little bit of time, you feel strong enough to start on your embryo adoption.

I wish I could offer more and make you feel a tiny bit better but cycles like yours are just crushing.  I really feel for you and am sending hugs over the North Sea to you.

Wizard xx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Oh FC I am SO sorry hun. I saw your first post earlier and I was just really hoping you would get to ET today. 

I know only too well how you are feeling. I will never forget the moment I was told by Reprofit (5th - and last -cycle with own eggs) that all 6 of my embryos were severely chromosomally abnormal and there would be no transfer. I had to pay for my cycle and make polite conversation with the accountant and then take the tram back to the hotel and the whole time I was trying to hold it together when all I wanted to do was cry, shout, scream, hit someone or something. It's heartbreaking to go through the whole cycle and have nothing to show for it at the end. I wish I had some words of comfort but I know right now there is nothing I can say which will take away this pain right now.
I can only wish you a swift journey home so that you can be alone and take the time you need to grieve for this lost cycle. 
My thoughts are with you,
Suitcase
x


----------



## Fertilitychallenged

Wizard & Suity> Thank you so much for your thoughts... I feel totally lost, for the first time, really really trying to grasp the eternity of never. What if never? My doctor didn't want me to give up yet, saying it's just a matter of time with my beautiful womb (the strangest compliment ever!) and young age. But however that is, next tx will be my last with my own eggs. Can't bear it anymore.

Through the tears I found this which actually made me laugh a bit: http://www.youtube.com/user/infertilitymusical

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that 
fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Oh hun I am so so sorry, I have also not made it to ET several times before and it is like being robbed of the chance and so disappointing, without even thinking of the 2ww ahead.

Take care 
l x


----------



## lulumead

big     FC. Wish I had something to say that would help but there isn't. I am not surprised that you feel devasted. I hope you have a lovely friend or two to give you a big hug.


sending love
xxxxxx


----------



## beachgirl

SSo sorry FC    thinking of you x


----------



## beachgirl

Morning, sorry I've been awol, had a very busy week as dad not well, hope everyone is well, will try andcatch up properly today but off to London tomorrow so got a busy one..any problems just shout


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Sorry to hear your dad not well beachgirl, hope he is feeling much better soon   

FC - have been thinking of you, hope you are OK    

midnight - thinking of you too hun and hoping you can go ahead..  

Hello and lots of love and luck to everyone else,
Suitcase
x


----------



## Fertilitychallenged

Thank you all for your kind words. Of course nothing can take away the shock an hurt... But somehow it does. I've read and cried and at least known I am not alone in this. 

So, i'm alive. Not so much kicking yet, but it'll come. Over the past three years I've turned into one of those "wipping" toys, you know those that are round in the bottom and when you hit them they just keep coming back up. I got a hell of a noosebleed from my last connection to the ground, but gravity seems adamant to make me stand upright again. Soon at least.

I e-mailed my polish doc and I'm now first on her waitinglist and "active" so next group of embies coming will be mine. What am I to do if this happens within the next 4 weeks. IVF or EA. I'm actually leaning towards EA - even though my next IVF is already paid for. But I've lost faith in my body's ability to produce viable embryos. Not sure how to think, but at least I'm thinking again...


----------



## Sima

FC - I'm so sorry


----------



## Glitterintheair

Hi everyone,

Sorry I havn't been able to update, my laptop charger went and I then I had to wait for a new one - it drove me craaaaaaaaaazy! 

So I had my appointment at CRM Coventry, it was ok, apart from I don't get funded, however I will appeal this and see what happens because I can probably only fund one cycle myself.

Dr Keay said I can't do anything until after my operation on my tumour, which should be in August/Sept sometime and once that is removed it will probably cause my hormones to even out slightly 

It is all a bit much and I had a good cry on Thursday night, for lots of reasons but mainly for relief that I have finally been seen somewhere...

*FertilityChallenged* I am so truly sorry, you are sounding like you are braving it and I really hope you have some support around you to help you through.. 

*Wizard* I hope too you are ok and that you have had time to relax and realise you are the better person 

My laptop about to go again so i'll sign off but love to everyone xxxx


----------



## Mifi

FC Im so so sorry to read your news       I know that nothing I can say will really help you feel better but sending you lots of      

Love FM XX


----------



## Sima

Oh dear - I feel so two faced. My best friend has just told me that she is expecting her first baby.  She is 6 weeks pregnant and so excited.  I actually feel so privelligaged that she chose me to be one of the first to confide her news.  I know she has struggled so long to get pregnant and had just been told by a fertility specialist that she was peri-menaposal so was highly unlikely to get pregnant either naturally or with assisted means.  I know why she told me because I have been helping her deal with her issues.  I guess she knows of my struggles and so when I asked her how she was getting on she just had to tell me her news.  I am very happy for her so please do not shoot me down but at the same time as I was congratulating her there was a voice from deep within which was saying "why me", "why not me" does this mean I am going to be the only one I know who will never carry a child and give birth.  It is the strangest feeling because I have never felt this way with any of my other friends or family when they told me they were expecting a child.  OK - I did get a small pang of jealousy when, last year, my baby brother told me that he was expecting a child with his girlfriend who is not much younger than me.

I think before my friend's pregnancy I thought at least there is two of us out of our group who has not had a child and now it is just me.  This really is an odd feeling.  I guess it is made that bit odder as I am going through my own internal struggles as to whether or not I should continue to pursue this dream to carry a child or give up and move to adoption.  I actually spoke with a couple of adoption social workers today.  I think I am 80% there to moving towards adoption but before I carry on a pursue this avenue I need to be sure I am happy with my choice and I am ready to move forward.

The last few months have been quite difficult for me. At the beginning of this year I started getting some pains in my legs and hands and these pains would just not go away.  I went to the doctor several times and I was eventually diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis.  This is essentially an autoimmune disease where my immune system starts to attack itself.  I was in quite a bad way a few months ago.  I struggled to walk, and getting dress was an ordeal in itself.  I could not brush my own teeth and even simple things like opening doors and turning taps were difficult.  I was put on steroids and this eased off a lot of my symptoms.  I was then offered the opportunity of going on a trial where by the doctor would treat my RA aggressively for the first 24 months with the hope of slowing down the disease.  There have been reports that hitting newly diagnosed patients hard in the first 6 months of diagnosis slows has significant benefits in the future.  So I started on methotrexate and a combination of anti TNF drugs 3 months ago.  The treatment seems to be going well and the pain has gone (except for the odd swollen ankle) and I am 75% back to normal.  I do get very tired during the day but I can cope with that.  However, since then I have been told I also have an under-active thyroid and so I am waiting for an appointment to see a consultant to get that sorted out too.  My RA has given me anaemia  and in the meantime my fibroids keep on growing.  I can't have any tx whilst on methotrexate because it is harmful to the baby so I would need to come off it for 3 months before I could even consider ttc. 

I know having RA should not preclude me from having a baby and many women with RA do go on to have one.  However, they do have to go cold turkey first and I think once my RA is controlled I could do that but there is a worry that my joints will flare up again and I would go back to the pain I had before.  I also worry how would cope if I were to have a flare if I had a little one around.  I guess all these things are manageable but it is much harder if one is trying to do this by oneself.

I have beaten myself up this year and asked all the usual questions of why did I not start ttc much earlier etc, etc but there is nothing I can do about it now.  I have was also let down by an old boyfriend who came back into my life recently and had left his wife to be with me only for him to leave me shortly after my diagnosis because he just found out his "ex" is pregnant.  Oh that was a kick in the teeth. 

Oh girls - I am sorry for the rant.  I guess my head is all over the place and sometimes it is so hard to keep on wearing that mask and telling the world that everything is ok.  The one thing I have always wanted is slipping away from me and I think I just need to let it go.

I could go one but I think I will just leave it at that for now.  Thanks for reading.  I am not expecting any answers I just wanted to share my feelings with someone who might understand some part of what I am going through.

S


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## suitcase of dreams

Oh Sima, sending lots of    your way - you've had so much to cope with over the past few months and we're always here if you need to rant
Take care
Suitcase
x


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## beachgirl

Sima , big hugs, you've been through so so much, thinking of you x


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## lulumead

Sima     . Oh my you really have been through, time for your luck to turn.  Wish I could say something more helpful.  If you want to chat about adoption, PM me, have been through the system here if its useful to know anymore.
xxxxxx


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## Sima

Thanks girls.  It has been a rough year and I thought last year was bad!!  As you know I tend to hold things in and then blurt everything out when things finally get on top of me.  Well putting things down in black and white has helped me because it has made things more of a reality instead of me just burying my head in the sand.  

Any way I went on one of the Arthritis websites yesterday and looked at their pregnancy thread and I found a single lady who had been diagnosed but went ahead and used DS to become pregnant a couple of years ago.  I think she used IUI rather than IVF but it shows it can be done.  She was 40 at the time.  I have sent her an email to see how she got on but from what I read it was not so much the pregnancy which was an issue but more looking after the child afterwards where she needed some assistance.  I don't think it will be easy and the risk of the body going into flare and causing great pain and discomfort is a real one.  If I did go down that route then I would have to hope  it worked quickly.  I am not sure if having RA would mean I would automatically have to go through an immune cycle.  I hope not cos money is limited now.

Lulu - thanks for the offer of a chat re the adoption.  I will PM you for some more detail.

Have a good day


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## Rose39

Sima - just caught up with your news. Gosh you've been through such a tough time recently. Hope that the lady that you contacted was able to give you useful information and advice. Sending you big hugs hunny   .

Am feeling very stressed and scared at the moment - am due to fly to Cape Town on August bank holiday Saturday - right when the media are saying the airport strikes are likely to be, and am flying out of Heathrow. I only delayed my trip to fit in a 2nd round of LIT, and just typical for me, then the strike action is announced. I so hope that it gets resolved - not sure what I'll do otherwise. I've been planning this for months - nothing ever seems to go smoothly. LIT was very painful, 12 injections of a compatible blood donor's white blood cells into my arms, like angry wasp stings - my arms are itchy and sore, which is how it's meant to be, but all the same...

So hoping that it works this time and I don't have to go through this again - but today, just hoping that I get to fly out in the first place. 

Hope that the lovely ladies on this thread are ok - and that the fact that this thread is quiet is because things are going well.   

Rose xx


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## lulumead

Rose     how stressful.


Crazy thought, but could you have a back up plan of train to Paris and flight from Paris to SA? Might be worth investigating and knowing its possible?


Will cross my fingers that strike doesn't happen.  You are due some good luck.
xxxxxxxxxx


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## ♥JJ1♥

Rose I really hope that all goes well- LIT sounds horrible!! but hope it does the trick.  There is still plenty times for negotiations re strike
L x


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## Sima

Hi Rose - I've never heard of LIT before but it does not sound pleasant.  I guess you really need to focus on the end result.  I'm glad to hear the BA strike has been called off so that is one less thing to worry about.  I do wish you every success for your next cycle.  I know you have waited a long time to go back for your frostie and I am sure it can't have been easy.  

As for me I got an email from the lady from Arthritis Care a few days ago.  She is a bit of an inspiration to me.  Like me she was diagnosed with RA at 40 but unlike me she decided not to start on any of the "strong" medication until after the birth of her daughter.  This lady did not have to use IVF but was successful with home insemination.  What I did like about her story is how she was able to cope on her own whilst bringing up a child.  She did have some help with cleaning and from the occupational health service which is something I might have to consider in the future.  But is does show it can be done with a bit of determination and that is one thing I think we all have.  I have also heard from another lady who has RA and went on to have a successful pregnancy with IVF.  She told me that she had to act as the go between between her rheumatologist and the fertility doctor which is something I will have to bear in mind.  This second lady was on anti TNF drugs throughout her pregnancy and I see from the Immune boards that many ladies are now taking humira which is an anti tnf drug to help them conceive.  I am not on humira but on enbrel but they do similar jobs.  I guess one other thing to consider is that I would not have to fork out loads of money for most of the drugs since I could get them on the NHS but I wonder if they would prescribe similar levels.  

So I guess I am going to be my own fertility expert going forward as I try to pull together all the advice I need from different areas and try to make sense of it all.  I might try to resurrect the in between treatment thread since I think I am going to be sitting on that thread for some time now.

I hope everyone else is ok.

Sima x


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## lulumead

Hello Sima,


Great to hear positive stories which show its all possible. Is it possible for you to  have consultation with the same doctor that did IVF with the lady who you are in touch with?  Or at least find out in more detail what her protocol was.  IS it worth a phone consult with Dr Sher, he seems to be the man that everyone talks about and he might have some good suggestions.
From what I remember you have a very supportive family and lots of friends so I think you will manage absolutely fine once your LO is here   


I think it all sounds very positive.


Rose: glad that airstrike is off and you can go back for snowbaby....am crossing everything that this is the one.xxx


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## lulumead

hello everyone else...sorry forgot to say that!


How is everyone doing on here?
xxxx


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## kizzi79

Dear all

Hope you are all doing ok and that the fact that this board is so quiet is a good sign...

Feel I need to vent, and not sure where else to do so   

Have now had 6 cycles of iui and another 2 cycles which were cancelled prior to insemination (once due to early ovulation and another due to over stimulation) - was sad but doing ok, but now i'm not so sure...

Have just had new vials of donor sperm delivered to the clinic - have always felt so excited at such things, feeling that little bit closer to being a mum, but have just been feeling numb - i no longer believe it will ever happen to me - i used to day dream about being pregnant and about spending time with my new baby - i would smile when seeing new babies and pregnant mum's knowing it would be my turn soon. This morning seems the final straw when a friend announced she had a baby this morning (she didn't even know she was pregnant) - it just seems so unfair    I just hurt so much and it feels like no one understands, hell i don't even understand    I just want to feel hopeful again...

I'm so sorry, I know so many of you have been so much more than me, love Krissi  xx


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## kizzi79

Feeling a little bit less like a crazy person today - have been trying to focus on the here and now through the medium of cleaning    - this is my life now and maybe i need to try and focus on this for a while. Am working tomorrow so should be kept busy.

This is all so hard! Due to see the consultant again in 2 and a bit weeks, hopefully that will get me focused (and if no maybe ask about seeing the clinic counsellor again) 

Love to all those finding this hard, Love Krissi  xx


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## Rose39

Krissi - so glad to hear that you're feeling a bit better today. This process is so hard sometimes, especially when friends have children easily and you've experienced repeated BFNs (I do understand and empathise on this one!). Good news that you don't have long to wait to see your consultant again - hope that they are able to give you some advice and help you to feel more positive. Sending you a big hug    .

Rose xx


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## lulumead

Hi Krissi


Glad you are having a slightly better day, think it can be quite up and down this journey!  Its very hard to keep the emotional energy needed to keep doing this, as you constantly have to pick yourself up after each disappointment. In that respect its like any couple trying to get pregnant naturally, its just with fertility treatment there is the added pressure of the expense.


I hope your consultant helps with a way forward. Just to say though my clinic felt it was worth trying 4 medicated and monitored cycles before re-assessing, so might be worth doing a few more medicated before thinking further, especially if you know that tubes are clear and hormone levels are all good. Once I knew that I began to trust it was just a matter of time.  I never imagined it would take me 2 years though! - with treatment on and off during this time.


sending you lots of    It's tough going but you are doing it and for that you should be very proud of yourself.
xxx


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## kizzi79

Thank you so much Lulu and Rose - it means so much to be able to talk about how i feel with others who understand   

Wishing you well for OTD Rose     

Love Krissi  xx


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## beachgirl

Just popping in to check that you're all ok and if you need anything please shout...


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## Fertilitychallenged

Hi girls,

been gone for what seems like forever. Since last I've done a final attempt att IVF, but just as last time I today got the dreaded phonecall from the clinic. My embryos died. Again. The likelyhood of that happening twice is something like 0,3% and even less taking my age into account. Safe to say my eggs are not thriwing... To make matters worse I've agreed on having my attempts filmed by swedish national tv. My TV-debut will be simply smashing... But it is, as always, politics. I want the laws to be changed so I can have tx at home with the same benefits as couples. And right now the general public thinks: a/ IVF = baby, B/ All single women going it alone are men-haters and C/ All singles wanting tx are 53 years old. 

Now I guess I'm going for embryodonation. I have been matched in Poland so right now I have to wait out this failed cycle, redo TSH which was slightly elevated a few weeks ago (and never before) and if everything checks out I suppose I'll be in Poland in October.


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## Rose39

Hi Fertility Challenged. So sorry that you went through such a tough time in your recent IVF, and it must be even more difficult going through this in such a public way.    Well done on taking the step towards embryo donation - there are lots of ladies who have had success with this - hope that it makes all the difference for you. Good luck for your next cycle in October - not long to go!

Rose xx


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## Lillyan

Hi girls
I'm not sure if anyone still checks this thread but I've just had a bfn following an IVF cycle and needed to make contact with others in the same situation. I wasn't sure whether to start a new thread but I said I'd post to this one first and see if anyone is out there....I had my bfn confirmed last friday after a blood test and have been feeling kind of numb but I think it's beginning to sink in now. It was only my first cycle of ivf but it's been a long road for me with lots of ops for endo and two mc's and different problems being diagnosed over the last 10 years. It took me ages to save up for this cycle, and I was told that there was very slim chance becuase of my amh and damaged ovaries but I needed to try. I wasn't shocked that it didn't work, just very sad and I have say it's a very lonely feeling. I don't know anyone else in the same situation, most of my friends and siblings have their own families and it's impossible to explain to them. I'm trying to get my head around the fact that I won't have my own biological children, and feeling like I let my little embies down. I'm just feeling a bit lost and alone. 

I've started to save up for embryo donation - it'll be a few months, which is a good thing as I'm probably still full of hormones, which probably isn't helping either! Plus, af just started and it's very heavy and painful which is the last thing I need. Sorry for the me post girls. I know so many of you have been here and would be so grateful for any words of wisdom. Lots of   to anyone else out there in the same boat at the moment...
Thanks
Lillyan


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## suitcase of dreams

Lillyan,

   
I originally started this thread and I know only too well how you are feeling, my thoughts are with you

I am lucky enough to not be in the same boat any more, but there was certainly a time when I felt I would never have my own family, biological or otherwise, and when I felt that things would never get better....

I'm not sure I have any words of wisdom....what works for one person doesn't always work for another. Counselling really helped me - especially with the transition from own to donor egg. As did exercise (I took up running quite seriously and it made me feel both physically and emotionally stronger), healthy eating, no alcohol (drinking and the subsequent hangovers just made everything feel much worse) and 'talking' to people here on FF who understand and who are going through the same things

Am sure others who are in the same boat right now will be along soon, I just wanted to offer some      , take care of yourself and I hope things start to look up for you soon

Suitcase
x


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## Fraggles

Oh Lilyan big hugs. I too know that feeling too well. There is a low amh thread I post on where many of us have had that discussion about letting go of using our own eggs but some of those who went the de route now have a bump or bonny wee baby or two. I think it is hard to get our head around but then there is the reassurance of younger eggs and therefore hopefully less complications and a smoother pregnancy for our age. 
xxx


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## Lillyan

Thanks so much for replying so quickly girls. It just helps so much to know there are people out there who understand. And wonderful to know that things do get better - huge congratulations to you on your pregnancy Suitcase - that's just wonderful! It fills me with hope. I think you're right about the healthy approach - I had a weekend of wine, after not drinking for months, and I wasn't the better for it. It was like an automatic reaction to the bfn, but it didn't do me any favours. It was my birthday last week as well so it was a double whammy. What I need to do is focus my energy on getting as healthy as I can, and build my strength back up. Fraggles I'll join you on the low amh thread I think - it's is a very positive thing to move forward to DE for me, but part of me is grieving too if that makes sense......Thanks again for replying so quickly, it means alot, the support here is just amazing...  to you both
Lillyan xxx


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## Roo67

Hi Lillyan, I can totally sympathise as to how you are feeling at the moment having just had a BFN myself, as you can see from my signature I have had quite a lot of cycles, and more than my fair share of disappointments over the past few years.  It is obviously still very raw for me and just now cannot see a way out of my misery, but there again I have been here before and know that I will probably be able pick myself up and dust myself down and get on with it all over again. I am getting very tired of it all but don't think I am ready to give up just yet.
After a year of IUI's my FSH increased so I went straight down the route of donor embies, for me it was about carrying my child whether made with my eggs or not, might be selfish but I just want a baby. Seeing my friends that have donor concieved children, they cannot love them any more and they are definatley their babies which sort of confirms that I am doing the right thing.

hope my ramblings make sense - sending    your way, am here if you want to chat.

R x


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## wizard

Lillyan

I am so sorry to hear about your BFN and that you have been feeling the way that you have.  It's awful and horrible and hard.   

I am lucky to currently be pregnant but the journey to get here has taken it's toll on me more than I could have imagined and although I am very grateful, I still have some very dark moments.  But what I can say to you is that as long as you're still trying to create your own family (and your move to DE is a clear sign of your deep desire to achieve this), there's always hope and possibilities.

Take good care of yourself and I feel for your sadness.

Wizard x


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## wizard

Roo, I was gutted to read about your BFN.  I can imagine how incredibly difficult it is and I wish with all my heart that the outcome had been different for you. I get your tiredness of it but also not being ready to give up.  I really wish I had a magic wand to wave for you, you have had it very tough but from your posts you are also strong and ultimately resilient and I hope it would be long before you have the physical and emotional resources to try again.  And when you do I'll be rooting for you.

Wizard x


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## Lillyan

Thank you Wizard, and congratulations on your pregnancy   I completely understand what you mean about the toll it takes. I know I'm not the same person as a result of everything I've been through but I believe I'm stronger and more balanced, and I'd like to believe, better prepared for parenthood and everything that that is going to bring. I think that's probably something that most ladies here would feel - they've been through so much to have their cherished lo's that they can take anything on. I wish you a very healthy and happy pregnancy   

Roo, my heart goes out to you. It's just heartbreaking. I'm so so sorry for your bfn. I know exactly what you mean when you say you're exhausted with it all but not ready to give up. I hear you. I wish there was something I could say. I too believe I'm doing the right thing, and I think that means something. It was my birthday last week and a close friend, who knew I had gone through the cycle and it had failed wrote an old Japansese saying in my card "fall seven times, stand up eight". We just need to keep getting up and one of these times we won't get knocked back down     

Lillyan
xxx


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## Violet66

Just reading all the biogs under the names makes me realise how much everybody has been through.
I feel a bit of an imposter - i've 'only'had two failures. 

Lillyan I do know how you feel - butI hope you can really draw comfort from the ladies who DID get there  in the end. ButI know that thedecision of how far you go and how much money you spend is a big one


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## Lillyan

Thanks Violet, I know - it's hard to know when to stop but I'm not at that point yet. I'm waiting for results of hidden c test and will go for a follow up at my own clinic on feb 23 and see what they have to say but am saving for a DE cycle, and hoping to go ahead with that in May.

Roo how are you doing today? I've been thinking about you all day and wanted to post but had to wait till I got home from work. I hope you're ok, though that's a stupid thing to say, of course you're not hon. Suitcase I took your advice and went to see a counsellor this evening. I just don't have anyone here to talk to who understands and I needed to let it all out. I've been feeling so lonely, and just so lost. Two pregnant women in work decided to have a full blown conversation about their pregnancies right outside my office door today - one of them was going on maternity leave today and there was a 'do' for her so there were loads of women buzzing around talking about their kids and birth stories etc etc. I thought I was going to break down. I managed to keep it together and ended up leaving at 4.30 when I couldn't take anymore. It's so hard to be strong but talking to the counsellor helped. I'm thinking of you Roo   

Lxx


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## Roo67

Ah Lilyanne that is so hard,    (I think I would have slammed the door !!)I have a couple of pregnant girls at work, one has been off sick since she found out but I think will be back soon, most of them know that I am going through treatment and are all absolutely lovely, not sure how I'll react next week though. I tend to just try and be busy so I don't need to listen / join in with conversations. I'm glad talking to a counsellor has helped. I don't really have anyone to talk to either, but tend to shut myself away and shut others out. I feel really guilty for saying it but I am glad my mum is away this weekend so I don't have to pretend or have company. 

A friend popped up on ******** chat this morning and asked if I had any news, told her it was negative etc, she said oh it'll all work out in the end, I said I am beginning to doubt it and she replied that I shouldn't think like that !!!! I think it was just a good job she logged off at that point.   She knows how much I have been through and is sat there with her husband and 3 little girls and hasn't a clue how hard it is.

Violet -   You're not an imposter, 1 failed attempt is tooo many

Wizard - thanks for your kind words

I'm doing ok today, been back swimming again this afternoon, can tell I've not been for 3 weeks !! it's lovely not taking so many meds and being injection free. 

R x


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## Fraggles

Hi

One of my friends has had unsuccessful IVF and another dearly wanted children but her partner didn't :-(. She was saying how lots of people we know are pregnant and know this and keeps asking them to babyshowers - hello are there any brains out there in those who are not fertility challenged 

F x


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## Lillyan

Roo - Yes, re injections! I still have bruises on my tummy but they're fading - I'd be a rubbish nurse, I had myself covered in massive bruisers! Also don't miss the crinone gel - horrible stuff. Fair play to you for going swimming. I'm going to start walking again this weekend - good long walks with my ipod. I've to lose a stone, and have just seen that you dropped 50lbs! My god, that's some achievement - what did you do - were you following a particular programme? I know what you mean about wanting to stay away from people - I was supposed to call in to see my mum this evening and rang her to say I wasn't feeling well. I hate lying but she doesn't know about any of my mc's, or about the recent cycle and it was just easier to bow out. I can totally understand just wanting to shut others out. I think people mean well, but if they don't understand they tend to say inappropriate things and when you're so low and sensitive it's easier just to withdraw. I'm not saying that's the right thing to do, but it's what I do too. Just know you're not alone   

Violet, I second what Roo said - even one failed cycle is too much    

Fraggles, I know. Sometimes I don't understand where people's heads are at. I went to my niece's b'day party shortly after I had a mc a few years ago, and when I walked in the door (and it took some amount of strength & rescue remedy to get there) my sister in law said "oh great, you're here - you can help all the kids make mother's day cards - they're doing it as a surprise for their mums". Hello


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## Fraggles

Roo, Lillyan well done for losing weight.  I love long walks it really clears the head and makes me feel so much better.

OMG Lillyan about the comment on mother's days cards I am speechless

One unsuccessful cycle is too much but I choose to think it means one more cycle closer to my dream when a bit of distance as passed from my initial disgust and upset at seeing that sign on the flipping peestick.

F xx


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## lulumead

Just wanted to post to send some    and love. Not much help - but am thinking of you all.


Rose: I think you should be honest with your friend and say how you are feeling - you need some support and she is your friend and I'm sure even if she can't quite get it or totally understand, she can listen and hopefully offer some support.xxxxx


lots of love all
xxxxxxxxxx


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## Lillyan

Thanks Lulumead and best wishes for your pregnancy, it's always wonderful news to hear of lovely bfps   

Rose I would be honest with your friend. Sometimes it's easier to say in writing, in an email, as you can decide what you want to say and how you want to say it and take time over it. If she's a friend I hope she'll understand, and being through email it'll give her the chance to think before she responds. I think most of the time people just don't know what to say and end up coming out with something inappropriate without necessarily meaning to. I think you should just tell her - exactly what you've said to us, that you're happy for her but also having a tough time yourself. Putting on a brave face is so so hard with everything you've been through, I hope you're able to tell her what's been happening for you and that she can support you     

Lxx


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## ♥JJ1♥

Hi Ladies I had almost forgotten this thread existed.

Lilyan sorry to hear of your BFN.  When are you hoping to go abroad- si it reprofit that you are going to?

Roo I am so gutted for you, I remember meeting you at the meet in Soho it seems so long ago and our journeys have all had their twists and turns.

Rose I really hope that your next cycle is the final one with a happy ending for you, and the next time you go to SA is for a holiday with your LO. After I had been to Barcelona for the 4th trip to the clinic I began to hate the place!!!

Violet- what are your plans hun?


People just don't think, I don't think that they mean to be malicious but they have no concept of what IF is and having a mc is not just a procedure process there is the huge emotional scars that last forever, so trying to walk or even think what it might be like to walk in our shoes is so alien to them - I guess  it is a bit like people who have cancer, or a death- they don't know what to say, but 'sorry' is often a good starting point!! or some form of acknowledgement, but often people ust avoid them or no-one mentions the big white elephant in the room.

Fraggles when are you hoping to cycle?

Try and stay positive as hopefully    our time will come - I always think that my baby is still waiting to come to me, others babies come but that is not my baby, I just have to be patient and overcome all the obstacles that are put in my way to test my resiliance, I haven't hit the brick wall/dead end yet.

Wizard  Wishing you a healthy and happy pregnancy

L x


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## Lillyan

Hi girls, just wondering how you're all doing? Roo how was the weekend? I hope you got some tlc and rest. I barely left the house - just needed to be at home where I could cry at will, it helped I think, though I ate too many biscuits which didn't help at all lol.

JJ1 I'm hoping to go to Serum - I've alot of issues and I believe they're great with complicated cases. I've been in touch with reprofit - sent them my forms but haven't heard anything back and from what I've been reading they're tightening up on taking singles so I'm not sure what the story is there. I'm happy to go with Serum though, have been in touch with them already and they seem great. 

Rose did you contact your friend?

I hope you're all doing ok girls. It was a beautiful day here today and I'm taking some hope from the fact that it's spring and all the flowers and buds are starting to put in an appearance. I truly hope that this is our year & we'll all be blooming this year too.   to you all

Lxxx


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## Roo67

JJ1 - that first meet seems sooooooooo long ago doesn't it,  there are not many of us left that were there and are still in the same position   We'll get there, son't know when but we will   

Lilyanne - My weekend sounds just like yours, became a recluse for 4 days  am doing ok, back at work today.

   all rouund 

r x


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## beachgirl

Thought that I'd start a new thread as this was hasn't been used for a while...

This way to your new home...

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=258645.new#new


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