# Row about "gay couple adopt"



## ♥ M J ♥ (Apr 17, 2004)

Hi

I heard about this yesterday- http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090129/tuk-row-as-gay-couple-adopt-children-6323e80.html

during prep we met a birth mum who's 3 children have been adopted by 2 men and she said at first she was upset however then realised that her children would have a fantastic life and also never call anyone else mum.

Mez
x

/links


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## ameliacooper (Aug 12, 2007)

I just read this story ...... I'm a single mum myself so prob not right to comment ... but I do feel for the family.


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## VEC (May 29, 2007)

I really dislike the Daily Mail.  

The laws in the UK state that gay couples may adopt.  Adoption laws were made by a government which has been democratically voted for, and are based on research into the effects on children of being adopted, whether by gay couples, single people or different-sex couples. 

We pay social workers and the system to "match" the right child to the right parents - the Daily Mail is not in a position to decide on individual cases, and nor should it be.  It has no idea of the needs of those individual children, it has no idea of the nature of the couple that has been chosen for their care.

I hope those children have a lovely time in their new family, which presumably has been chosen for them with great care and attention to their needs.

VEC X


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## ♥ M J ♥ (Apr 17, 2004)

ameliacooper said:


> I just read this story ...... I'm a single mum myself so prob not right to comment ... but I do feel for the family.


Birth family or adoptive family?


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## ameliacooper (Aug 12, 2007)

I meant the birth family.

Mainly because of the grandparents being turned down to adopt the children.

I don't know how I feel about the two men.  I just think girls need a mummy where possible.

I really really hope I haven't caused offence.

Axx


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## ♥ M J ♥ (Apr 17, 2004)

Hi Ladies

Sorry i didnt do a proper post earlier however was dashing out.

I am an adoptive parent to 2 children- yes we are a mum and dad couple however i dont think we make better parents just because we are male/female couple. for our children they needed a certain type of new family including the extended family members so it wasnt just me and DH who we looked at as such when it came to matching us.

The matching process is very hard and the childrens needs are look at formost the what the adopter/s can offer to help that child/ren grow up in a safe, happy, loving enviroment.

During the process to being approved as adoptive parents it will have been talked about in depth who will be a strong female role to the child/ren placed with them just as it would be with a female cople/single adopters as to who would be a strong male role model. your support network is something that is looked at too.

I personally have no problems with this as these men want to be parents as much as DH and I did hence going down this route to be Dads

Hugs

MEz
xx


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## VEC (May 29, 2007)

I agree with you, Amelia I feel sorry for the family too, particularly for the children because they've had such an unsettled time, but also for the grandparents because they have had their grandchildren taken from them.

I just don't like the way that some newspapers launch in with their own particular bias without actually having any of the facts.  We have no idea what these children's needs are, we have no idea who would be their "ideal" parents - and quite right too, as they are entitled to privacy.  But newspapers jump in and attack decisions without a care just so that they can sell papers.

Although it seems odd to those who are desperate to adopt, there are many children waiting to be adopted because they don't fit the adoptive parents available and/or due to bureaucratic holdups.  My view is, if you have a good match, then our social workers have the obligation to get those children into a family where they have every chance of setting down roots and forming a functioning and one hopes happy family.

And I've just seen that you've posted again, MJ, and yup, I think you've articulated better than I can what I mean about children having individual needs.

VEC X


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## ♥ M J ♥ (Apr 17, 2004)

Hi Amelia

Oh no you havent offended (well not me)

in ref to the grandparents- they would have been looked at in detail for them to keep the children HOWEVER the childrens needs would need to come first and as much as they love their grandchildren they were unable to care for them in the way 2 little ones needed it. I know this may sound harsh however for a little one if they stay within the family at times and the birth parent/s come in and out of their lives then this is a lot more disruptive for them and can mean the grandparents would have to spend weeks settling the children again only for the birth parents to come back into the picture for a few hours/day/week/month ect only to upset the children (regress in behaviour which isnt benifical for the child/ren) Social services dont do this lightly (sorry if i dsound like i am ranting however just dont want others who read this to think that social services have just "written off" the grandparents)

I personally grew up with just my mum(and "step" parents - she was married twice while i was growing up-which didnt last long! whole diff story) and didnt have a "strong" male role model growing up however i think i grew up just as "normal" as the next person- my sister is the same- we have both been with our husbands since we were 19/20yr old (10+ yrs each)

My brother also grew up the same as me and my sister however his dad (not mine) is not a positive role model at all to my brother however my BIL and my DH have been so he got it from them.

hope this makes sense

xxx


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## ♥ M J ♥ (Apr 17, 2004)

Hi Ladies

I can totally understand your feelings for the grandparents- i realy really do- i really hate newspapers at times!

letterbox contact is normally agreed in cases like this so the grandparents would get a letter maybe once/twice yearly with/out pics so they get to know how the children are getting on.

When children are freed for adoption (placement orders) then the birth parents dont have rights to state what they want in ref to type of parents for their children HOWEVER can voice their opinions and they may be taken into considoration when matching the children to adopters.

This artical though is about if children (not just these children) with same sex couples

hugs

Mez
x


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## VEC (May 29, 2007)

MJ - the article is about whether children should be placed with same-sex couples, but it is written with such bias!  As we've already said, different children have different needs, and this is not something that is acknowledged by the Mail.

Amelia, hon, you didn't offend me, by the way.  I was incensed by the tone of the Mail's article.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I just don't think that the Mail is representing the hours, weeks, years of consideration that have gone into the widening of adoption laws.

In Italy (where I live) only married couples of mixed gender may adopt - I truly don't think that this narrowing of options is in the interests of those children who are waiting to find their adoptive families.

VEC XX


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## ameliacooper (Aug 12, 2007)

Katie D - completely agree with last paragraph.

My opinion is that - I am a single mum - my daughter could not be more loved - by everyone (I do know her dad - he is not in our lives though) - I am confident she will grow up to know how much I love her.  But I cannot imagine a little girl without a mummy. - 

For some unknown reason I don't have a problem with 2 mums - but 2 dads - I just don't know - is this really bad - and girls I would be interested in what everyone thinks.


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

I don't have a problem with it, my known donor and his male partner would be fabulous parents and i hope that we do have a child together eventually.  I do know some straight men but all my gay male friends would be great parents.  The grandparents and birth parents will always be so.

Look at the gay men in the media who are fathers-eg Ricky Martin and his surro twins, and others- are they any better than a straight couple


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

I was bgt up in a strict catholic bckground but now hav a lot of gay friends both male and female.i think of a lot of gay men feel they can never have children caus of prejudice against them.while i feel for the grandparents.the children seem 2 hav had a very damaged upbringin.no mention of their birth father.so it ok 2 hav 2 mummies but not 2 daddies 2 hav kids. What do u think will happen 2 children if they with 2 men?look at all the child abure cases-it usually a woman and her boyfriend guilty of abuse not gay men.stopped gettin the daily mail as it so prejudiced but day off 2day and wish i hadnt bothered buyin it!be


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## Junnie (May 17, 2008)

Well here are my thoughts--

Firstly if this mom was so "concerned" about her kids having a "mom and dad" maybe she should have done what she needed to do to make sure that happend i.e cleaned her act up (sorry i dont mean to sound rude)

And I wont even GO there about the Roman Catholic Church commenting.... (but glass house and stones come to mind)

This mom should be thankful that 2 HUMAN BEINGS are selfless enough to care for her kids and provide what she cant! That grandfather should think the same thing.. those kids are being looked after 2 people who will LOVE and care for them better then they have been

it upsets me when i hear things like this....I feel like we can have a black president in the world and we are making that HUGE step forward yet stories like this put us so far back!

2 moms 2 dads 4 moms 4 dads doesnt matter to me- as long as they have a warm safe bed to come sleep in everynight and go to bed with no fears and no worries then I say leave them be!


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## Bree (Mar 21, 2007)

Amelia, do you mean you are thinking that girls need a female role model ? Perhaps the gay couple have a close female friend or relative (eg their Mums) who would fill this niche? Bree xx


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## loobylou713 (May 8, 2005)

What worries me the most is children can be so nasty in the play ground. Children now days know more about sexuality than I ever did at that age.  I hope the child does not get bullied at school because of this.

linda


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

I have single friends who have adopted so where is the male role model there?  I have several  lesbian friends with sons  and daughters and no fathers (DS) but all are have healthy, loved and well cared for children- 
Another one of my lesbian friends also had a child when she was married to a man, when they spolit up  and he was  emotionally abusive to the child and traumatised her - so 2 parents of opposite sex are not always the best option for children, it is the love,security and home provided for them that matters most.

L x


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## Junnie (May 17, 2008)

I agree... I mean look at how many parents (both male and female) walk out on their kids im sure the CSA could shed lighton figures.


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## BABY2 (Nov 28, 2007)

I think the daily mail-not sure which is worst them or the sun- put these stories out to get customers who like myself will by it in rage and hurl abuse at the crappy articles  

Having worked with teenage mums for the past 5 years , I would say a very high percentage of these teenage girls (maybe 60-65%) have come from children's homes and broken home lives. They have mostly been taken into care from a very young age and placed in a variety of foster parents/children's home. If I could rewind the time back and place these children with two loving parents -whatever their sex -or even one loving parent-whatever their sex!- who wanted them and gave them a good,secure, loving home life, they would have been in very different situations right now.

So if a gay couple want to adopt, why not? as someone has said already as long as they have been checked to be suitable parents then it's all good   and as for the catholic church making comments.....  

I also have been a single parent, and the male family members were a fantastic role models until I married DH.

Good luck to the couple and the children

PS, Linda I think children will always be cruel and bully other children about everything and anything...race, colour, religion, hair colour, hair type, clothes, shoes, parents, lack of parents, nose, eyes, name etc etc  
xx


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## Jinty (May 6, 2006)

Here's the same story covered by the Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4427191/Grandparents-anguish-at-losing-gay-couple-adoption-children.html
I too hate the Daily Mail and to be honest most papers have an agenda of some kind and while I appreciate what you're all saying, and I genuinely have no issue with the fact that they're being adopted by a gay couple, I do have an issue with the fact that they're being adopted at all. 
I'm sure there's some spin going on but according to this story 4 courts agreed the grandparents were fit enough to look after them and I'm sorry but taking medication for diabetes is not something that makes you unfit to look after a child, nor is 46 too old (or 59 for that matter). 
It seems wrong that two children who've presumably been through a lot already then get forcibly removed from the only real home they've known. Surely if the grandparents really were that unfit the 4 courts would have acknowledged that. I'm sure it's a v. hard job that social workers do but on the one hand you have cases like baby P where the birth family are considered so important that even abuse does not get the child taken away and on the other you have cases like this where it appears the birth family don't matter at all.
I'm sure it's difficult if the birth mother drifts in and out of their life but I don't see that it could be more traumatic than at such a tender age being taken away from their family and given new parents, a new home, new school etc.


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## Junnie (May 17, 2008)

I think the problem is.. as stated before grandparents are also someones parents.. and would possibly still let the birth mom and dad see the kids which obviously Childrens services have decided that is NOT a good idea.

They do get to see the kids still so its not a total loss

There has to be a reason teh council made this decision. My experiences with councils they wont fight so hard for something if its not worth their time....


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

Junnie said:


> I agree... I mean look at how many parents (both male and female) walk out on their kids im sure the CSA could shed lighton figures.


I think the CSA, on the whole, can't find their own backsides with their own hands but that's just my personal opinion... not that of FF blah blah blah...  



♥JJ1♥ said:


> ...it is the love,security and home provided for them that matters most.


Absolutely right. 

I would not worry unduly about playground taunts these days. For starters that kind of cruel behaviour we endured as kids is much less toleratedin schools these days and, secondly there are far greater numbers of non-standard family units around.

In this case I do think it's a terrible shame the grandparents are being, sort of pushed out like this. They seem to have the kid's best interests at heart and, yes, I do think family wishes should, to an extent, be taken into account when deciding to place adopted children.

C~x


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## elinor (Jul 4, 2008)

local papers have also reported this story, and most recently have reported that the adoption has been put on hold because of all the publicity. I think that is a shame for the children involved.
Some of the coverage has also highlighted the fact that the major problem is not with the grandparents as grandparents (age, health etc), but the fact that they have not agreed that the birth mum coming in and out of their lives and homes is disruptive and damaging to the children. Their view, according to the reports, is that she is their daughter, so they will never turn her away, despite incidents of risk and causing concern due to her lifestyle choices, even though this has a hugely unsettling impact on the children. The issue of her (and partner's) alcohol/ drug use and how that impacts on the children has to be taken into account.  The grandparents were not against adoption, and had initially agreed that this would offer the best way forward for the children, but then decided against it when they heard that the best match that had been found was with a same sex male couple.
I feel sorry for the social workers trying to pick up the pieces when the press get hold of things and have their own angle - how does that help the children involved? Where will they end up now?
Wish the tabloids would respect diversity a bit more - and if there are couples out there gay /straight/ transgender who cares if they can provide love and support to the children who need it.
Best wishes
elinor


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## Junnie (May 17, 2008)

You know... with all these reports lately of babies being beaten by their parents and councils getting in sh*t from teh public for NOT doing anything..

and now look they are trying to do whats right for these kids and the public are hanging them! 

Cant frickin win can you


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## ♥ M J ♥ (Apr 17, 2004)

Hi

I dont belive what the papers write for one second as my family have been on the end of the "quotes" tyhat papers have said have been made which was allowed of b*llocks (whole other story)

Sadly from 1st hand experiance birth family members from adoption have their own "story" in their heads which isnt completely fact.

They have said 4 judges have been in their favour HOWEVER one judge hasnt been in order to grant a "placement order" which is normally done after the children are in foster care(not always the case though)

I am going to totally disagree with this quote below for the following reasons.
the distruption that a birth parent can cause to a child is huge- i have a friend who's mum fostered her cousins 2 children and every 6-8 weeks she would "pop" into her children lives, the issues it caused these 2 young (both under 4) children was bed wetting, vomiting food back during a meal, night mare ect so no this isnt the best for a child as it was taking a good 4-6weeks to get them settled again only for birth mum to "pop" back up!



Jinty said:


> I'm sure it's difficult if the birth mother drifts in and out of their life but I don't see that it could be more traumatic than at such a tender age being taken away from their family and given new parents, a new home, new school etc.


I have 2 adopted children so am not talking rubbish- i have been through the process from both sides- right until you go to curt for your adoption order which you cant apply for until the children have lived with you for 10weeks the birth family can fight for your children- now tell me how after my 2 had been home living with us for 7months thsat this is health for them? we got our AO however up until the day before we went to court the birth family could have ledged an appeal

x


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## Junnie (May 17, 2008)

MJ I agree

I think the MAIN point here is councils and SW dont go around ripping kids from homes for no reason. THERE IS A REASON for these kids being taken away. 

So they start a new school, new life, new start in the world sure traumatic for all of a few days but then they feel love, safe, warmth, and their wee nerves settle down


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## Jinty (May 6, 2006)

M J said:


> I am going to totally disagree with this quote below for the following reasons.
> the distruption that a birth parent can cause to a child is huge- i have a friend who's mum fostered her cousins 2 children and every 6-8 weeks she would "pop" into her children lives, the issues it caused these 2 young (both under 4) children was bed wetting, vomiting food back during a meal, night mare ect so no this isnt the best for a child as it was taking a good 4-6weeks to get them settled again only for birth mum to "pop" back up!
> 
> 
> ...


Hi MJ, you clearly have more experience than me with this so I'll bow to your knowledge. I'm just reading the story as it was written and as I said I know you have to take things with a pinch of salt but as the story is reported it seems a very sad situation indeed for the children. 
The difficulty I guess is (and again I'll accept that I could well be wrong and overly influenced by recent media reporting as I have no first hand experience) that recent cases (and there seems to be quite a few of them) where children have been seriously abused and finally killed by their parents without the social workers doing anything, does not inspire me to assume that they always do the right thing in situations. As with any other organisation/government agency, there are always politics which can sometimes affect decisions,
But as I say, I'll accept that I could well be wrong. Just my opinion


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## Candee (Feb 1, 2009)

Hi Jinty,
I think the truth is that removing children is a last resort and social workers can get it wrong because
they have to be certain there is no other way...

There will be very strong reasons why these children were put up for adoption and I think everyone who has 
researched adoption, even just in outline, is aware just what a rigorous process it is... These potential 
adopters will have been through the whole gamut of interviews and assessments... They must have been 
able to offer the girls a bright future or they would not have made it through the process... If these children 
are now left in limbo again, instead of settling into their new homes, I think its very sad


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## Jinty (May 6, 2006)

Janadee, I think that's the one thing we can all wholeheartedly agree on which is that the whole situation is very said for the children


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