# A little help please?



## nina874 (Apr 13, 2007)

Hi all you lovely ladies,

I have been reading all your stories and lurking around for a while. I actually have a few questions that I am asking on behalf of my sister. She is in a same sex relationship and her partner of 3 years is getting to the point where she is aware that her body clock is ticking. They are travelling to the US to have a cycle of IVF later in the year to make some ice babies for her while her eggies are still good.

My main questions regard to the legal rights of both of them with regards to the baby. They haven't got married - they don't really see the need - but from what I have read on here that will mean that my sis will not have any parental legal rights, is that correct?

Also they would really like both their names to go onto the birth certificate - is that even possible?

Does my sister have to adopt the baby when it is born? If so how difficult a process is that and how open are the social workers to same sex couples?

On a non legal note they were wondering what the baby will call them both - obviously sis's DP will be mummy but what will the baby call my sis? She is so keen for them to be a proper family unit, but worries about the baby being confused - and getting picked on at school!

Any help will be much appreciated.

Thanks

Nina x


----------



## nismat (Mar 7, 2005)

Hello there Nina 

I don't know any of the answers to your legal questions for sure, but I'm happy to say what I think is the case! There are law changes coming in from April 6th which affect same sex parenting. The info that follows is from Stonewall:

_"As a result of a law change, with the new Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act, the non-birth mother will automatically become second parent from the moment of conception IF you are in a civil partnership AND/OR you have conceived via a licensed clinic.

This change in the law will come into force from the 6th April 2009. If you conceive before this date, the non-birth mother will still have to apply to adopt the child as now, I order to become a legal parent.

If you conceive on or after the 6th April, if you are in a civil partnership AND/OR you have conceived via a licensed clinic, the non-birth mother will automatically be the second parent of the child conceived." _

Even if they are planning to use a US clinic, I would imagine (although don't know for sure) that if the baby is born and registered here in the UK, this should apply to them (i.e. civil partnership status is immaterial). And if this is the case, both parents will be named on the birth certificate - hooray! It would mean that your sister would not need to adopt the baby - she would have equal parental rights automatically. They would definitely have all the legal concerns taken care of if they conceived at a clinic here in the UK; the only query is over how it would be regarded if they are using a foreign clinic. Maybe Natgamble would know more about the detail on this?

Out of interest, what is the reason for travelling to the US for treatment - is your sister's partner American, or is it just "easier" there in ethical/practical terms to create embryos purely for freezing (rather than as a by-product of a fresh IVF cycle)?

And on the subject of parenting names, they should just go with whatever they feel most comfortable with. Lots of female couples are both mummy/mum, and it doesn't seem confusing to the children. There's a whole thread on the subject here http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=112420.0 if they're looking for ideas! We're Mummy (me) and Mimzy (DP), the latter being something that Toby has only just got his name around in the last week (it was Mimmy prior to that!).

HTH x


----------



## lesbo_mum (Dec 22, 2008)

i love that thread on mummy names me and DP have read it about 10 times   we love Mimzy/Mummy or Meema/Mummy we always thought that we'd use Mummy Em and Mummy Lou but DP is worried the child may just end up calling us Em or Lou!! 

In regards to the new parenting laws coming in April 6th this year does anyone know how it would be if i carried DP's egg could i still go down as a co-parent like she would have had if it was my egg on the birth cert?

Em x


----------



## kooks1 (Aug 24, 2006)

lesbo_mum said:


> we always thought that we'd use Mummy Em and Mummy Lou but DP is worried the child may just end up calling us Em or Lou!!


that is exactly what happened to my friends with their lo - they dont mind it but if you dont want them to call you by your names them i think you do need to think of alternatives


----------



## rosypie (Feb 1, 2007)

lesbo_mum said:


> In regards to the new parenting laws coming in April 6th this year does anyone know how it would be if i carried DP's egg could i still go down as a co-parent like she would have had if it was my egg on the birth cert?


I'm pretty sure if you carry the baby you'll be named under 'mother' and DP would go under 'second parent' (or whatever terminology they come up with). I don't think it matters who's egg it is... sure someone else can confirm.


----------



## Misspie (Feb 1, 2009)

Would be great if someone could post the thread on mummy names on here, been looking for it but can't find it!

L
x


----------



## lesbo_mum (Dec 22, 2008)

Misspie here you go nismat posted it further down

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=112420.0

Kooks i think that pretty much confirms what we thought... plus i think mummy lou & mummy Em sounds so like we've stole it from the L word!! oh actually i think they used Momma B and Momma T...

Rosypie i've posted on the Lawyer board so hopefully Nat will respond again with the answer.

Em x


----------



## leoaimee (Jun 3, 2008)

_Hi all

Can't remember when I last updated this thread, but just thought I should let you know that the new HFE Act rules (giving parental status to both lesbian partners) are due to come into force for conceptions after 6 April 2009. Those TTC at the moment might want to miss a cycle next month and wait to get the benefit of the new rules. It's not a disaster if you don't, but it will save you having to go through the adoption process.

Natalie_

Nats last post on the LEGAL thread.

and re the eggs it doesnt make any diff legally if you use your DP/DWs egg's they have legally DONTATED to you and so legally its the same as if a stranger donated. Otherwise an egg donor could claim to legally be the other parent or the parent and it doesnt work like that.

Nina - i was wondering why like Rosypie your sis and dp wanted to go to the states for TX?


----------



## nina874 (Apr 13, 2007)

Hi Ladies!

Thanks so much for your replies, my sis will be thrilled about the new law that is coming in April, though like someone pointed out I don't know how much it will be affected by them having treatment in the US.
They want to travel to the US for a number of reasons, amongst them :
The wide availability of donors both anonymous and open giving them the choice,
The lack of **** interference
The phenomenal success rates of the clinics over there - they have found 2 clinics that have a 70% live birth to cycle rate.
They do PGD almost routinely, my sis watched me go through the heartbreak of multiple mc and would like to do all she can to at least ensure that the embies are healthy.
The treatment plans are tailored to the individual patient not to some insane government guidelines.
The california clinics seem to be a lot less judgemental and it means that they won't have to involve their GP's etc ( parental forms - again ****!!) they are both fairly private people. The contact that we have had so far they seem to totally understand why they want to ensure that when they reach the point that they are ready to have a family they will have the best chance.

I know that they will face all sorts of prejudice from numpties that will judge them based soley on who they fell in love with, I just hope that they have the chance to enjoy a having a family as much as I have.

Nina x


----------



## leoaimee (Jun 3, 2008)

Hi Nina

lots of reasons to go to america!!  

How old are your sis and dp?

do you think if the new legal thingame only applies to those concieved in UK registered clinic they would consider being treated in the UK?

Have they thought about contacting the donor conception network?  they are an organisation that work with families of donor concieved children.  They have done alot of work with the children themselves and the importance of their right to information about their donor and choices they have about how they were concieved.

it might make them think twice about using non traceable donors ... but might not!

at the end of the day its a highly personal choice.

they are lucky to have a sister like you who is helping them to have a family!

sorry to hear about your MC ... that must have been tough.

aimeex


----------



## nina874 (Apr 13, 2007)

Hi Amiee,

I dont know how they will react to the legal thing if it only applies to UK clinics, I think that the US success rate has a lot to do with thier choice though, I had 3 cycles of IVf and my sis knows how traumatic it was for us!

I will give them the info on the donor network, I know that they have given it al lot of thought, I think that one of their concerns with known donors is that just because they agree to be contacted when they make the donation, it doesnt mean that they, and their future partners, will be happy about it in 18 years! They figured that being rejected by a donor could have far more lasting effects than not knowing them. 

The mc were a dark time in my life but I was blessed enough to have already had children, I spent a lot of time and heartache trying to replace the baby that I lost, but it wasn't meant to be.

I dont think that my sis is lucky that I am helping her, I just feel bad for the people that seem to have to overcome hurdles with their friends and family in addition to struggling to make a family of their own.

You must be getting excited about your bump now, are you feeling lots of movement all the time now? I used to love the stage that you are at. I notice from your signiture that you are in spain, how do you and DP find it over there, I know when I used to go to our house over there when I was a kid they were uber traditional/conserative!

Nina x


----------



## rosypie (Feb 1, 2007)

nina874 said:


> I dont know how they will react to the legal thing if it only applies to UK clinics


if they are CP'd it doesn't matter where they conceive, her partner will be second parent on the birth cert. if they aren't then they need to conceive at a 'licensed' clinic to achieve the same end. i'm not sure if this means they have to be hfea registered or not (which they won't be if they offer non-traceable donors).

good luck for your sis


----------



## leoaimee (Jun 3, 2008)

yeah really excited about our baby!  the bump is lovely!!  she moves quite alot, although gabs (dp) hasnt the patience to wait for feeling the kicks so has only felt her once!

we have had really positive reactions from the community we live and work in, i dont know if anyone has felt something negative and not told us.  we are mostly based in gibraltarian community ... which can be pretty conservative and small minded.  the legal system is v behind, we have no 'rights' as a couple and wont be seen as such.  we are waiting to see whether the company gaby works for will give her additional paid leave for when the baby is born, because she isnt legally entitled to any.  although the hospital put her as second parent on my forms, crossing out father and putting mother.

to be honest our families have both been really supportive.  and are both really pleased we are having a family so we couldnt be happier in that respect.

ax


----------

