# Progesterone cream/pessaries



## Wisp

Hi Everyone,

Has anyone used any natural progesterone cream? Can you buy this over the counter or would I need a prescription? I think you probably do for pessaries.


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## Bela

Hi
I think you need a prescription for both, these things are serious and cannot be just taken whenever. 
Did you have a day 21 progesterone level test done? If not, it's probably something you should do. To get a prescription there has to be a reason. However in this country prescribing progesterone is not that common (unless a woman is undergoing an IVF treatment)...That makes me wonder, because many women TTC naturally have that same issue.


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## Wisp

Hi Bela,

Thanks for your reply.  I had a test on day 21 originally, which was fine, then more recently I had a test on day 23 because I actually have a 30 day cycle and that was 66.5, so looked good.  However, I get some spotting 3/4 days before AF arrives and I wondered whether this is because of low progesterone, but the tests seem okay?!....I have read that some women have fallen pregnant with progesterone support. 

If I don't count the day the spotting starts, but from day 1 of AF, as you should, my LP is about 13 days, but if I count from when the spotting starts it would only be about 8-9 days, way too short, so didn't know if progesterone could help. My GP said she doesn't know enough about it, so will re-refer me to a consultant at the local hospital.  We did go to another hospital before we moved to where we are now, where I was prescribed Clomid for 8 months, but that didn't result in a BFP.  I did ask her about progesterone and she said there was no evidence to suggest it helps women get pregnant...I have seen you can buy the cream online, but like you say I don't want to mess around with it without medical advice....


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## caro226

Hi Wisp,


Your progesterone levels look really good!  My NHS consultant always said that they like to see numbers above 30 to confirm ovulation, but having now gone private (naprotechnology rather than IVF) the doctor there has said that they like to see a value above 60, so yours is looking great! 


My understanding is that progesterone support is given for women who have low progesterone, as this is the hormone that needs to sustain any implanted embryo until the pregnancy hormone, HCG, takes over.  


I had premenstrual spotting regularly a few years ago, and this was most likely due to endometriosis, a condition where the lining of your womb grows outside the womb and can lead to symptoms such as painful & heavy periods, premenstrual spotting, and infertility (although the link isn't particularly well understood).  I was diagnosed with 'mild' endometriosis when I had a laparoscopy, and thankfully the endometrial patches could be removed (they were around my ovaries) and a few months later I had a natural pregnancy which resulted in my DD.  Would definately be worth discussing this with the consultant when you are referred.


Your LMP seems OK too - I was always advised to count day 1 of my cycle as the first day of 'proper' bleeding (rather than spotting).


Hope this is some help, any questions just ask, and good luck!
Cx


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## pandagirl

Hi

I have a similar problem. My luteal phase is normally only about 10-11 days (I know from charting). When they took my bloods before IVF, the levels were ok, so they didn't think I had a problem. After my IVF failed last November I had some progesterone pessaries left and used it the next cycle and got a BFP! I went to GP immediately and insisted that she prescribes more, which she reluctantly did as she knows what I had been through... (although she had called a consultant before giving the prescription who confirmed that it should be ok). I'll never find out whether it was a coincidence or not that I got natural BFP the very cycle I used progesterone...Sadly, I recently lost the baby, but will try again. I am going to my gynae (rather than fertility) consultant next week and will ask for progesterone prescription again, let's see what she says. GP refused to give it to me this time. 

If you find a way to get progesterone in any form, I'd be very interested to hear about it also. 

I also have adenomysis (which is similar to endo, only the lining grows inside the uterus, rather than in other organs) and read that one of the reasons for it may be excess estrogen and unsufficient progesterone!


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## Wisp

Hi Caro and pandagirl, thanks for your replies.

Pandagirl, so sorry to hear that you lost your baby, that's really sad news and I hope that you are doing okay. It will be interesting to hear what you consultant says about prescribing more progesterone.  Are you planning on anymore IVF? I haven't heard of adenomysis before, are the symptoms similar to Endometriosis?

Caro, Thanks for the reassurance about the progesterone level! Someone else sent me a link to Napro, how are you finding it? I have wondered if endometriosis could be causing my spotting, but I don't get very heavy or painful periods, but I did read you could still have it without those symptoms?  Did you used to get the spotting 3/4 days before you period? Sorry lots of questions! My last consultant never mentioned having a laparoscopy, she never seemed at all interested int he spotting, which I just kept banging on about! Some people have suggested it to me on here, others have warned me off it as they have had problems with their cycles since, it's hard to know what to do for the best...


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## caro226

Hi again,


I had a similar experience with my NHS consultant!  She initially said it wasn't worth doing a lap as 'you don't have any symptoms of endometriosis' - however, she'd never once asked me about how my periods were, grr!!  Mine weren't notably heavy or painful (although they're a lot worse now to be honest) but I did get up to a week of spotting.  Certainly it made all the difference to me (first time around at least), and my periods were a lot easier after it (although I only had 3 before I conceived my DD).


Is it worth seeking a second opinion, or do you think your consultant can be persuaded?  


One other thing I should mention is I have generally had pretty bad PMT - emotions all over the place, and really really sore boobs from just after ovulation until I come on (so generally two weeks!) - since using progesterone pessaries the symptoms have been much less, which i guess fits in with being 'oestrogen dominant' which can feed endo and adenomyosis (which I possibly have as well).  


So far I've been really impressed by Life Fertility Care where we're receiving our treatment.  We started last September and did 6 months of just charting and bloods so they could assess us, and now I'm taking some meds to try and keep my endo under control, and ensure I'm ovulating and producing good enough (sorry, TMI) cervical mucous.  I'm also going to be having HCG injections after ovulation to support any potential pregnancy that arises (and then progesterone support once pregnancy is confirmed, fingers crossed).  I found that they took all my symptoms seriously, and that the charting confirmed what I already knew and they were prepared to prescribe the progesterone for it.


I don't think I also said previously that I tried using natural progesterone cream last year - I think this is far less effective that the pessaries, and I certainly found that it didn't make much difference to my PMT and periods.


Hope this helps!
Cx


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## Wisp

Hi, this is really helpful, thank you.  We are hopefully going to be referred to a new consultant, as we have moved since we stopped going to the last one.  The last one discharged us after I took Clomid for 8 months, with no BFP, as she said there was nothing more the NHS could do for us because she couldn't refer us for IVF as my husband already has children.  It was quite devastating and I thought surely there were more options before IVF anyway, but she didn't offer any.  Our new GP said she will refer us to our new hospital, so I am hoping that a second opinion may help and they may think a lap could be useful.

Like you the consultant never asked about my periods at all, just cycle length.  After the clomid treatment I decided try acupuncture and Chinese herbs, the acupuncturist asked so many questions at the assessment, wanting lots of detail, questions I hadn't been asked before!  I too had PMT, very sore boobs up to my period and mood swings and the spotting was 5/6 before my period.  After 6 months of treatment, my boobs do not get sore anymore and the spotting has decreased to maybe 3 days before and is much, much lighter.  Also I used to get quite large clots (TMI!!) during my period, but now I may get a couple of very tiny ones.  So things have improved, but I still feel there is a way to go before I could see a BFP  .

The treatment you're having sounds good and seems to make sense, especially the HCG injections.  When I asked my consultant abut progesterone pessaries she dismissed the idea completely, it's so frustrating. At East with the acupuncture I felt heard and that what I was saying was taken seriously.

Thanks for your help  . Good luck with everything!


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## caro226

oo, I've got a friend who struggled to conceive and then had chinese herbs and now has two children!  So good luck with that, and good to hear that it's helped with your periods - they sound sadly very similar to mine, and initially the progesterone pessaries made them more bearable but actually the last two months have been a bit iffy again.  


Hopefully the new consultant will sort out a lap for you, keep us updated!!
Cx


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## aRainbow

hiya girls, i have had some brown spotting 7dpo and 8dpo and am worried that im low in progesterone. 3dpo my progesterone bloods came back at 29.3. I went for repeat progesterone blood test 7dpo - still waiting for the results.  Could the spotting be low progesterone?


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## Wisp

Hi aRainbow,

From what I have read and heard from other people, this sort of spotting could be linked to low progesterone.  My understanding is that if progesterone doesn't stay high enough post ovulation the lining of the womb can begin to come away early. However, I have spotting and my blood tests, one taken on day CD21 and the other on day CD23 both came back fine in terms of progesterone levels and my temp remains high until AF arrives. 

There are possibly other causes...have a look at the thread I posted a while ago that is still active called 'spotting 3/4 days before AF arrives', as we have been discussing possibilities there too!

Let us know what your other blood test comes back as.


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## Wisp

Rainbow - Sorry the post is actually called 'Spotting every month 4-5 days before AF'


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## aRainbow

thanks wisp. i have been over to your topic. my 7dpo progesterone came back at 55. what does this mean? am i low in progesterone? xx


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## Wisp

Hiya,

I think someone told me that the progesterone test should be done 7 days before AF is due, which may be a different date to 7dpo, if you see what a mean, depending on your cycle.

Mine was 66 and apparently that is good, so 55 sounds good too. I think someone told me anything over 30 is good. I will double check that though.


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## Wisp

Actually someone had said that a progesterone level of over 35 is good, it's likely to mean someone has ovulated and enough for implantation to occur. I cant confirm this for sure though. Are you seeing a fertility consultant?


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## MissMayhem

I've been TX naturally for a few months after two failed rounds of IVF. We see an Integrative Therapist who has said that balancing your Oestrogen and Progesterone is one of the most important things. I had wayyy too much Oestrogen in my system apparently so am using a natural progesterone cream twice daily. It's called 'Serenity' and you get it from wellsprings.co.uk (or something like that). I also take an oestrogen blocker and can't drink water from plastic bottles. Apparently plastics contain, amongst other things, synthetic oestrogens so everything is out of glass for me these days. Hasn't worked yet but he has a good pregnancy rate with other couples he's worked with.....just hope it works for us!   good luck everyone xxx

Only now seeing some of your other comments. Wisp have you always had this spotting? I never had it before, until I had my laparoscopy that is, it seemed to start steaight after that. A few days before AF was due I'd have spotting for a day, then nothing for 2/3 and then AF would come with gusto!


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## Wisp

Hey MissMayhem,

Thanks for posting on here. How do you know you have too much oestrogen? Certain symptoms or can it be tested?  I may look in to the cream, do you use it throughout your cycle or after ovulation?

I heard that about plastic bottles and also tap water, so what do you do...only buy water in glass bottles? I have seen some water bottles which filter water and apparently don't have certain chemicals in them, not sure if this includes synthetic oestrogen though?! 

I have had the spotting since stopping the pill, which I had been on a long time, about 4-5 years ago. I never really paid any attention to it before TTC!


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## MissMayhem

Hi wisp.  

I'm not sure if you can have an actual progesterone/oestrogen test.  The guy I go to is an holistic therapist, he uses Chinese Meridien Therapy and Homeopathy amongst other things and has bizarre ways of testing.  I guess at the minute it's just a bit of blind faith with me as I can't 'prove' anything he says.  He has a good reputation though and doesn't advertise anywhere, his business has kept going over 18 years through personal recommendation. And, I take comfort in the fact that there's absolutely no profit in any of the things I buy for him as he'll tell you to research on internet and get the supplements etc. as cheaply as you can.  And he gets very angry with conventional IVF as he sees so many people who have just had their bodies pumped full of drugs with no actual 'cause' for their infertility ever being discovered.  His argument is if you don't know what is causing it, how can you effectively treat it.  .................am still waiting for it to work though! Fingers crossed!

I get told to use the cream twice a day from the time of ovulation to when AF arrives.

With the bottles I started buying bottled mineral water but with the amount I have to drink each day it was ridiculous.  Now I have a few bottles so filter my water and decant it immediately into my bottles.  He seems happy that my levels have balanced off now anyway.

Hope this helps xx


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## Wisp

Hiya, Yes it does help, thank you! I kept thinking what's the best way to do it!

I think I said, so sorry if repeating, that I had 6 months of Chinese herbs and acupuncture, which seemed to help with lots of my PMT symptoms and pre-AF spotting, but since stopping things seems to have gone a bit haywire! Am waiting to see what happens this cycle! I totally agree, how can you treat something if you don't know the cause!? That's what I kept saying to the consultant we saw at the hospital, but they didn't seem to want to look too deeply in to anything. I guess if I was paying privately it would be a different story!

Thanks again and all the best with it!


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## MissMayhem

Yes, I know what you mean.  I'm very grateful for my NHS treatment but can't help thinking sometimes that it kind of is a 'one size fits all' approach.  My experience was when my first cycle failed I just had more drugs slammed into me.  On the surface it looked like this had improved things but I ended up with only one egg, which was damaged.  The research that I've done since then suggests that this is likely to happen and that purely upping the dosage of drugs usually does more harm than good.  Doesn't feel like that was a coinsideration of theirs though.  Good luck to you too.  I'm kind of at the point of giving up aftereight months of this and no joy.  May well have to go private now, but anything was worht a try.  And I still completely agree wtih him that you can't treat when you don't know what is wrong!  Part of me keeps thinking that I want to be patient and really give this as a good a go as I can, the other part keeps panicking that the menopause is en route when AFs keep getting further and further apart and the big 4 0 is looming!  Oh to have a crystal ball eh!  xx


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## Wisp

Hi MissM,

Yes a crystal ball would be good! I am feeling like I really can't be bothered with it all, it has taken so much out of me...I am beginning to accept that I may not even have one baby let alone the three or four children I wanted! DH and I have started to focus on other things, like travelling and we also want to extend our house next year, so these are all good distraction.

I really hope that if you go private it works for you, you'll probably get treated much more like an individual, well I hope so anyway.

Take care  .


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## MissMayhem

Hi wisp, I know what you mean about it taking it out of you. My DH says I've changed so much he doesn't recognise me sometimes as I've become so bitter and angry. Not good is it!   I'm glad you've got some healthy things to focus on. I'm realising that I need a focus too, couldn't see before how I like to be immersed in something until after my wedding was done. Then I was like 'what next' to plan and pour over, just with most things there's a very concrete result at the end of it with infertility sadly there often is not. I read your post on the stepchildren board and only then noted your signature. I'm so sorry you couldn't get NHS funding, it's so unfair how it operates. I was lucky,even though my treatment didn't work I am aware that I have to be very thankful in this cruel postcode lottery. Thanks for your kind words, I really hope your luck changes for the better. Take care.xxx


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## pandagirl

Hi ladies

I know it's an old post, but thought you may help. I wrote here a while ago. In summary, in the past I suspect that I had a short luteal phase and I got my natural BFP (sadly lost the baby later) last year when I used some left-over progesterone after ovulation. 

I asked my consultant to prescribe me more progesterone, so I can use it, but she refused and said that the whole short luteal phase thing is a myth and there is not medical evidence that it exists, and on the contrary, too much progesterone can be even harmful. Another doctor in the same clinic confirmed this. I am wondering if other doctors have different views and have prescribed progesterone for short luteal phase? If yes, should I go to another doctor to ask for a prescription? My GP refused to prescribe it also. 

Incidentally, I also haven't ovulated for the last 7 months and am on chlomid now, but I don't want to miss my chance, in case chlomid does work and I ovulate, so am thinking about progesterone supplements again. 

I may also start a new topic on this, so please feel free to respond there. 

Thanks


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