# New here - completely disheartened



## Jojo40 (Jan 12, 2015)

Hi all

I just turned 40 two weeks ago.  My husband and I have been TTC for four years unsuccessfully.  There were some complicating factors.  I had terrible trouble coming off anti depressants which sent me into a depression for two years on and off which meant having a baby wasnt top priority.  We weren't using contraception but we weren't actively trying if that makes sense.  Anyway I got my mood sorted with the help of a wonderful therapist and put my name forward for IVF.  My IVF treatment started in November.  It was on the NHS in Edinburgh but my sister had hers privately at Zita West so I followed all her advice re acupuncture, which supplements to take.  The nurses were pleased with how I responded.  I produced 11 eggs, 8 were collected. Only 3 were fertilised but they said the others weren't quite ready and 2 were put back in (which were of high quality).  Anyway I was so so happy to find out I was pregnant! On my first attempt.  I found the pregnancy very stressful.  In the 2ww I had been very positive.  Like I just knew it would work but after I got the BFP I didn't have that same feeling.n I went for my 7 week scan and they said the baby was only measuring 5,weeks 3 days although everything was there that should be including a heartbeat.  They asked me to go back in one week. Then several days after the initial scan I had a natural miscarriage.  This was only one week ago.  Doctor at the IVF clinic was quite flippant.  Saying because of my age there is a 50% chance of miscarriage at IVF!  I did not know this.  I am 40 but I have only just turned 40 !  Plus I responded a lot better to the treatment than people much younger than me!  So this really upset me.  Anyway because I turned 40 two weeks ago they won't do another round on the nhs which feels like awful bad luck.  Especially as we should have had the treatment three months earlier than we did but hubby had failed a smoking test that they never told us they were doing ( he had had a few cigarettes at a festival the day before the test!)

So am not sure where to go from here.  I am feeling pessimistic because of my age even though I resoonded well!  I just feel I am still fertile and am young for my age (my mum also didn't enter the menopause till mid fifties). We can get the funds together to pay for another round of IVF but not sure I would want to go to that clinic due to the doctors manner.  Also I would have this fear of 50% chance of miscarriage hanging over me.  My sis tells me to go to Zita west as she had a wonderful experience but the clinic is in London and I am in Edinburgh so not sure that would even be possible but it is the same price as where I went in Edinburgh (royal infirmary) so would rather go there.

A third option is to try naturally. It didn't happen for us before but I think that was due to my depression and anxiety.if I can get myself to a good place (which I was before the miscarriage) maybe it will happen?!

I know it is too soon to be thinking about this. It is only one week since I miscarried but it is constantly on my mind so thought I would post here. Just feels like I am running out of time...

Jo


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## bombsh3ll (Apr 19, 2012)

Hi jojo40,

I'm sorry for your recent loss  

I too received very poor care at the ERI & would definitely not recommend paying for treatment there when you can have access to much better and more individualised treatment in the private sector for around the same price or just a little more.

You did respond well and got pregnant so there is every reason to be hopeful if you were to try IVF again.

My only advice would be regarding your third point that struggling to conceive is NEVER due to depression and/or anxiety - unless this causes reduced frequency/absence of sexual intercourse - & at 40 having ttc naturally already for a couple of years I would not put off further IVF if you can afford it now.

Best wishes,

B xxx


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2015)

Hi Jojo I'm so sorry   There is a newish thread started for people in exactly your situation (mutual support for 40+ and recovering from MC). My IVF resulted in a bfp last year too & then a mmc. I didn't realise there was such a high MC rate around this age onwards & the isdues with eggs til then   Sounds like you responded well, so be heartened with that. I also started a thread about success stories using own eggs over 40, so that might encourage you too. I really hope things work our for you whatever you decide to do next. How annoying about the cigarette test! I have to admit to having sometimes had them in times of stress, altho not during ivf or pregnancy or so far in 2015! Anyway all the best xx


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## missowen (Feb 22, 2014)

Hi Jojo,

Sorry to read what happened. I just wanted to say it's been my experience that drs are very negative about the chances of success 40 + so take no notice. Everyone is different. I think it's something they're taught at medical school that they don't question. I would say as others have it's not your age but your clinic. Find a better clinic.

Good luck


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## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

welcome. so sorry for your loss it is heartbreaking to have such hope and then loss especially when it has been a long wait.
please don't give up hope though. there is still time! Good luck. Don't listen to statistics you just won't know unless you try.


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## CrazyHorse (May 8, 2014)

Hi, Jojo, sweetie, big hugs to you.  This is the thread we've got going now for childless 40+ ladies with pregnancy loss: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=331439.0

I'm in Edinburgh too, and had my treatment to date at IVF Scotland (the Spire-run private clinic), which is basically the same doctors as ERI but a different set of nurses. I was reasonably happy with my treatment there, but am not keen on going to ERI (too busy and chaotic, not flexible enough in their treatment approaches), and am currently investigating clinics in Czech Republic, which are about half the cost and offer a wider variety of treatment options. Unfortunately, IVF Scotland is closing permanently at the end of February.

Like you, my mother didn't hit menopause until mid-50s, and I have regular periods, no perimenopausal symptoms, etc. My AMH is very low, so I don't respond well to stims, but every egg I've had collected to date had fertilised, and I've gotten pregnant from one out of 2 completed IVF cycles. So, like you, I don't think my own eggs are trashed yet.

Unfortunately, your risk of miscarriage with an OE IVF pregnancy at 40 *is* much higher than for someone who got pregnant naturally under 35. The 50% risk of miscarriage (if you include all pregnancies detectable by blood test) is real. However, half of all OE pregnancies in our age group are still successful!

It is definitely worth trying again. I think you will find private treatment to be much more flexible and attentive to your needs than an NHS cycle.

Wishing you lots of luck.  Please come along to the thread linked above if you'd like to chat with some of us who are going through similar turmoil -- grieving pregnancy loss while making critical treatment decisions under time pressure is a crap situation, and personally I've found it really helpful to talk with people who have gone through it all themselves.


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## Jojo40 (Jan 12, 2015)

Thanks all for your posts.  I feel much better today.  I have had a very low few days.

I think it is too soon for me to decide what to do.  The thought of ivf does not appeal at all at the moment. Also if i did spend that amount of money i would prefer a private clinic but what are the options in edinburgh. My sis recommends the zita west clinic and it does sound great but would mean a lot of travelling and stress and no guarantees it would work. Do i want to put myself through that again.

Bombsh, what didnt you like about ERI?  I thought some of the nurses were really lovely but i just felt like i was on a conveyer belt and it always felt very rushed. It didnt bother me too much as it was nhs but if i was paying thousands of pounds i wouldnt be happy. Hence why i wouldnt go there for my next round. 

I am going for counselling today which will hopefully help me. Am signed off work this week. Never realised how traumatic this could be.


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## bombsh3ll (Apr 19, 2012)

Hi jojo40,

I was very unhappy with my care at the RIE because at 31 with high reserve I was prescribed what I now know to be a very aggressive dose of menopur by a junior doctor which was completely inappropriate for my age, AMH and AFC. I was called in daily for scans & blood tests but the results were not acted upon & I ended up in agony with severe OHSS, ovaries swollen to the size of grapefruits & barely able to walk. Only at this point in my cycle did I see a consultant, who flippantly remarked oh well, next time we'll put you on Cetrotide (short protocol) & use a much lower dose of stimms.

I had initially asked for Cetrotide as this had suited me well on my first attempt but was made to have Buserelin. This meant weeks longer off work & offers no protection against OHSS. I later learned at my follow up (we were only even offered a follow up appointment after I made a formal complaint) that they only still use Buserelin so that EC/ET can be timed so they don't have to work weekends.

We never saw the same person twice which I feel contributed to the failings. To add insult to injury they kept over half the £4.5k we had paid for ICSI despite the cycle being cancelled before EC. There had been no information previously given to indicate that any refund would not be proportionate to the stage of cancellation. For those getting it free, a "cycle" only counted if it got to EC yet paying patients lose the bulk of their money even if cancelled prior to this. It seemed very poorly organised & we would often wait 1-2 hours after the appointment time to be called in - I had to take weeks off work for that cycle compared to 7 days in Cyprus & 5 in Spain.

I also think they could have the sensitivity to move the heavily pregnant smoking ladies somewhere else other than right outside the entrance to the IVF clinic.

This was in 2012 so they may have made some changes but I really wouldn't recommend it to anyone who has to pay for their treatment. We also waited a year from referral for IVF to starting treatment which wouldn't be the case at a wholly private clinic.

Best of luck with your next steps, I hope the counselling left you feeling a bit more positive.

B xxx


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## Jojo40 (Jan 12, 2015)

That sounds awful bombsh. It all just felt very rushed to me and i wouldnt be happy if i was paying for that. It is great you now have your baby and must make all the pain totally worth it!  And yes there are still women smoking outside the clinic! Most look like they have just given birth as opposed to actually carrying a child but still!  Hardly sensitive!  You are also assignedan 'infertility number' which again i dont find very sensitive.

Goldbunny, i was just looking at your signature. If you dont mind me asking, do you now have a baby. I dont totally understand your signature as not that up on the lingo here!

My counselling went well. She said just focus on how i am feeling at the moment as opposed to stressing about the future. Easier said than done but i am trying my best.


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## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

jojo i had three cycles of ICSI(injected sperm in the lab ivf) the first when i was 41 so already in the last chance saloon... panicing...first cycle negative test, second cycle i got my first ever positive, very excited, heartbroken at 12 weeks as a scan showed a missed miscarriage, third cycle i got pregnant again, terrified, but the end result has two teeth, pulls himself to standing in the cot and giggles when tickled. It was a tough journey but i am grateful to be so completely blessed.


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## Jojo40 (Jan 12, 2015)

Hi goldbunny

I just tried to read your post to my husband and i couldnt read the last bit as i was crying too much. How amazing! You must feel so blessed. Your post has given me so much hope. I had given up to be honest but after reading experiences such as yours i feel much more hopeful

Thank you
Xxx


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