# Natural IVF (ie no drugs)..........part 7



## Rachel (Mar 10, 2004)

New home  

Lots of love and luck to you all    

Rachel x


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Me....


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hello Incon, Edenbliss.  Good luck at your appt Edenbliss

I have a scan on thursday too, have decided to take the plunge and squeeze in a natural ivf cycle this month before my full on stimming one in April

It is probably the worst money i'll ever spend and i should really save it for the medicated attempts but knowing what I know now, it seems wrong to waste any eggs....especially as all through last year we were plugging away ourselves not knowing that we had zero chance naturally

even though chances are very tiny, it feels good to have something positive happening


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Go for it Juciy, best of luck!

Hello to everyone else

Wiggie xx


----------



## ManiH (Dec 13, 2007)

Hi everyone

Just a quick one so i dont lose the thread!!! Good luck Juicy! 

Hope you are all well

ManiT


----------



## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

Hi there


Incon, Wiggie

I did a short low stimms protocol in Barcelona
75 units of Menopur and 75 units of Gonul for 12-14 days
Orgalutran for 4-7 days.
Produced 5 eggs(never have produced more than 2), all fertilised, two good enough to put back

Cost of total drugs - about £500-600 becuase of the lower dosage which really helps!
Scans and blood tests in London £500

Clinic IVF costs (3,500 euros) £2,600 plus extra scans and bloods brought it up to £3,000

Hotel and flights £700-£1000 really depends on where you stay and what day you fly 

I think all in all it comes to about £5,000

You can either do scans and blood tests in UK and then fly over for a scan and trigger, or fly out on the first scan but of course much higher accomdation costs.

The clinic is clean and very modern.  Not busy, no long queues of people and I received the best care so far.

The website for the clinic is www.ivi.es

odettex

ps please bear in mind that this was my experience and so I can only speak for myself.


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Hello everyone...

Well it all went smoothly and the scar tissue hasn't grown back!!   So very pleased about that. If anyone has any similar problems I would heartilty recommend both Yehudi Gordon at Viveka and the Hospital of St. John's and St. Elizabeths - it was really pleasant and the nurses were lovely. 

Good luck Odette...Glad to hear you were treated well. Good luck to you too Juicy!

Was confused to find this all on a new thread as needed some info from the old one, mostly from you INCON --  for instance, what was the IVF protocol  you recommended a couple of weeks ago? Also, where is this place where you can buy your own meds? Also Incon, I do have the number a therapist in Primrose Hill who's great...if that's too far for you I think she may have some contacts south of the river. Do you want a number for her?

Thanks, and would love to have that info soon...I know you say it's a lost cause but would like to run that protocol by Geeta just the same...

(Or is there a way I could just find the old threads somewhere?)

I need to know pronto as I'm seeing Geeta tomorrow for the first time


----------



## odette (Nov 3, 2006)

Sally - don't know about your problem but my friend was under Mr Yehudi Gordon and she spoke very highly of him.  I had a consultation at the Vivika clinic at the Dr Marilyn Glenville clinic a couple of years ago and am still taking her supplements.  Thanks for your good wishes.

Inco - hi, where are you? 

Odettex


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sally - you can buy cheap meds from Ali in Shadwell... 020 7790 9150. 

Re the protocol... It may be worthwhile trying an antagonist protocol with cetrotide with gonal f + menopur or merional combined as there is some evidence taht this combo gives a better egg quality.  You may be able to get this bit... Geeta is against any steroids so I guess not worth mentioning it... Steroids are often used to help with implantation.  In this country prednisolone is used (dexamethasone in the States).    They can be used during the stimulation phase as well as in the post EC period.  This is the bit which Geeta declined.  

Do you do lp with Geeta?  Long protocol also gives a better quality of eggs and as you are a good responder it may be well worth considering as your ovaries can take it.   

I am pleased to hear that there is no scarring.  Excellent news... Shame nobody recommended hysto before as you may have got pregnant by now and avoided the unnecessary heartache.  Good luck for tomorrow...    .   I think you have got excellent chances to succeed... especially now... Let's hope for the 3d time lucky...   

It would be far to go to Primrose Hill. Does your friend know smb this side of the river?  Could you pm details. 

I am increasingly concerned about my therapy as my therapist seems to be v. prone to influencing my opinion with her comments, which usually come at the end of the session so I never get a chance to challenge them and then I brood over the stuff for a whole wk, which doesn't help.  It feels a bit judgemental.   Don't think I need a 'critical parent' at this point of my life.  Can always get that from my mother for free... (Am being a bit cynical here...   Is she supposed to do this?  I have a distinct feeling that I should work out my own solutions with her help rather than being told what's in my best interest?   I just feel a bit alarmed about this.  
I think I need a  more caring environment and a bit of a methaphorical hug so to speak...


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks Incon...

That's extremely helpful as ever!

That does sound very alarming about your  therapist, dropping these bombshells at the end of therapy while you don't have time to process them...also quite an emotionally dangerous thing to do as well. I'm going to see if I can get a couple of numbers for you and I will PM them ASAP. (If you like I'll also PM my own number, as new ideas might come to me later on..)

You are an excellent font of information generally, which must make it that must more frustrating that the journey has been so rocky for you! I'm sorry I'm a bit out of the loop here, but what are you thinking of doing now...?

And yes, good news about Monday. They couldn't have been nicer either...it was nearly a pleasant experience, dare I say it!

X


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Thx Sally.  I'm at the end of the road I think... Shame I didn't know all this info a few years ago when it was still salvagable... I may or may not cycle one last time... Working on donor eggs mentally ...we'll see...  This is certainly the hardest road I have ever travelled...

The very best of luck tomorrow... Keep me/us posted... 

Thx for the info on therapists and your input generally.  Glad you concur as it is reassuring to know that these end of session bits are emotional 'bombshells' as it were... Just helps to know I haven't lost it completely...as I started wandering ...


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

No, you haven't lost it at all. First of all, that's an unprofessional way for a therapist to behave, but also, not every therapist is right for every client and you owe it to yourself to find someone whom you feel comfortable with!

I've sent a couple of emails to colleagues asking for contacts south of the river and hopefully I should have some numbers soon....!

x


----------



## ManiH (Dec 13, 2007)

Incon

This is certainly the hardest road I have ever travelled...

Hun i just read this and had to send u a  

Mani


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Incon    ....truly this is one journey i too would give anything not to be on.  

There have been so many lows already and we're only at the start...after three already long years

Sally so pleased your op was ok and no scarring.  Good luck tomorrow..I have a scan at Harley st at 12.30 ...you might spot me looking agitated in the waiting room if they are running behind!!

Edenbliss I am not sure quite how the natural cycle will pan out but guess that after my scan tomorrow things will become clearer so I will report back.  I am not assuming for now that we will actually collect an egg- don't want to get my hopes up !  
From what incon has said I will still need some meds to control ovulation anyway.  But hope not too much beyond that as don't want to jeopardise the april medicated cycle which must be more likely to succeed.

thanks Odette for the info and Wiggie and ManiT for the thoughts too


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Thx Sally...

Thx Mani and Juicy... Good luck to you...


Edenblis - fingers crossed....  

Odette - fingers crossed for you, too.... Thx for the protocol info...  

You go girls... we need some positive vibes and some bfps on this thread....


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

I'll look out for you Juicy, hope it goes well... (though hope for your sake they're not running that far behind.) I've never been to the Harley Street branch before...feeling a little nervous for some reason; maybe because I got a bit stroppy last week with Rachel about Geeta not returning my emails. 

Hopefully I'll have some numbers for you tomorrow Incon...

Good luck Odette and everyone else.

xs


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sally - you were just wanting the attention you should get as a patient. Why nervous then?  Rachel was often v. patronising/stroppy with me, so maybe she pushed some buttons, too?  Thx for the nos in advance... Think I will just tell the therapist what I think today and see what happens...Good luck with your app...


hello to everybody ..

Juicy - good luck...


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Sally it seems to me that getting stroppy is actually 'being assertive' and is far preferable to sitting meekly by getting frustrated... I read an article in the paper last month interviewing doctors frankly about what they think of alternative therapies/what they are like as patients etc. Without exception they said that being a bullish patient gets you attention (even though it shouldn't be that way).

It strengthened my resolve to be assertive about things though I haven't had any awkward questions to ask yet.  I do feel that's because you all are making a better job than me of knowing what questions should be asked though so please keep up the good work!
  
I had my scan today and am waiting for a blood test result to see if I should start taking the drugs for this natural cycle.  I have come away feeling that I should have asked more, insisted on talking it through a bit more...i would have liked some reassurance that even though this won't work, it might tell us something valuable for the next cycle.  

On the other hand, as there were NO follicles on the right ovary and only a few tiny ones on the left plus the leading one - that probably tells me all I need to know.... I have no eggs to waste and still have better odds this way than on our own....!

thanks for good wishes


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Yap, that sounds like a scenario for controlled natural cycle.


----------



## ManiH (Dec 13, 2007)

Hi everyone

I wondered if u could help with some info

My DH was really concerned about the amount of drugs i had to have for ICSI altho i was on short protoco leach time, so itried to find out about more natural methods - hence my posts on this and the old thread. I saw Daniel Elliott at London acupuncture clinic and he seemed to think that natural wouldnt work for me and i would prob not be accepted by create cos i had no response whatsoever to clomid, which is why we eventually went to IVF, we needed ICSI cos of DH. what do you think? Does geeta have certain criteria/ cut off that you know of with regards to response, i have PCOS too and vv irregular periods. Hope someone has some info for me?!

ManiT


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi Mani

From what I can gather from others and our consultation with Geeta she doesn't have any strict criteria, rather she adapts her protocols according to the patient - which can be anything from natural cycle (as Juicy is having) to a soft cycle with clomid to a medium stimulated cycle with gonal f.  

Generally she favours a low stimm approach without down-regging and can do both IVF and ICSI. I don't know about treatment in relation to PCOS but it might be worth having a consultation with her (costs £160). I may still try the low stimm approach if my 2nd cycle at Guys doesn't work  - as it may be that for me it is better to have fewer but better quality eggs.  However I and my DH were put off from going with her initially because of her bullish attitude (and she has been a bit mean towards some of her patients) and the poor admin at the clinic (with Lorraine for example they forgot to get her to sign the consent forms!!)

So nothing ventured nothing gained - I too am following this thread with interest!

Wiggie xx


----------



## ManiH (Dec 13, 2007)

Hi everyone

Thanks Wiggie - from what i read the low stimm approach is prob similar to what i already had which is ultra short cycle for 9 days with buserlin and gonal f at the same time and then the hcg jab. i only tend to get less than 10 eggs generally and cos the process of ICSI tends to lose some eggs we dont get many which are cultured. i am a bit concerned about not getting enough eggs thru more nat method but perhps its worth a consult to see what they think. Nervous cos of what others have said re geeta as u mentioned too. 

Has anyone with PCOS had low stimm method - what sort of egg nos do you get?

Grateful for all/ any info!
Mani


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Just to let you know that both LFC and the LIster will do a low stimm approach if you want them to do it.  The prices btw lfc and Geeta are now the same, in fact Geeta is a touch more expensive ie about 100 pounds.  this is for mild cycles.  Natural ones have a v low % chance anyway...


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Hello everyone...

Incon, did you get that number on the PM? I'm still fishing around for other ones too, just to give you a choice.

My consultation with Geeta went well though, as you predicted Incon, she had no time for steroids! She managed to get me in for a scan as well which showed that my ovaries looked "very happy" (I was on day 15 of my cycle) which meant definitely staying with a similar approach...150 iu Gonal F and 0.5 ml Busserlian nightly. I have rung Ali's in Shadwell who have given me good price for those pens though apparently Serano are even better...I'll ring them on Monday. 

RE prices - Geeta told me that the price rises are to do with LFC suddenly charging everyone more and that come summer, Create will do its own cycles at Raynes Park which will be nearly a grand cheaper! Something to bear in mind. 

Also, I had my heart set on ICSI but she talked me out of it...not only is it about £800 more expensive, but she thinks I've a better chance with IVF, even with the frozen sperm (my donor's last count was about 51 million, though I realize it isn't all about that.)

Thanks everyone for your support re. being assertive. I do like Geeta in the main but I feel that the place really needs to work on getting back to people and not leaving them hanging!

Must go but will check in later again... how's everyone?


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Thx Sally.  Got your message.  It's v. kind of you.  I will certainly make some enquiries...

Glad to hear the consultation went well.  I must say that after what happened to me I wouldn't take that chance in Raynes Park even if my ovaries had better potential....  In my experience anything going wrong is the patient's fault in Geeta's book... I wouldn't want to gamble with anaesthetics...Shame, I also liked her to start with and had a complete trust in the clinic....

I am glad you are having your EC at the LFC must say...  

Good luck to everyone....


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hello everyone.  I am now on a controlled natural cycle, I had the gonal f and cetrotide over the weekend and went for a scan this morning.  The one follicle I had last week is now quite big and am hoping against hope that the egg doesn't go early...EC weds morning....we live in hope.  

Am already weighing up at which stage of the process it would be least bad for it to end. We had decided to just have a punt on this month but now that I have discovered the true price (new price list not given last week and I was not told that last Thursday's scan was not part of the treatment...??) it is difficult not to hope that it might work....despite the odds being very much against it!  And also feel like i have to commit to it a bit and hope that it works, as if I keep telling myself it won't, then it won't!

so fingers crossed there's an egg collected at least.  

According to the pricing at Create, I'm paying £1040 plus meds of £400, for a cycle which started today....when i had one scan.  After today I am with LFC for EC and hopefully ET....which costs £750....I don't understand this and intend to ask why my scan last week wasn't part of the cycle.  Feel a bit stupid as thought i had the money side of things down, esp after all the help I have had from ladies on here!

hope everyone is good.


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Juicy - they are a bit inconsistent re the initial scan.  I have been charged for it first time round and then wasn't the 2nd time round. It's pretty much whom you deal with in terms of admin staff.    If you have a scan on 2nd day of cycle the price should be included in the cycle.  It always was at all other clinics so the Create shouldn't be an exception...

Good luck...  The prices I talked about are for a mildly stimulated cycle where you go for more than one egg.


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

ooh thanks Incon, i think i jumped the gun a bit too actually, it seems I have in fact had the princely amount of two scans for my £1040...

I was definitely given the wrong price list though and it was handed to me on 28 Feb as the price list for the cycle in April I had planned, so there was no question that the new prices wouldn't apply.  The price diff is £650!  I have emailed them to say that that shouldn't have happened 

I have an appt at the Lister booked now too for second opinion.  couldn't get a date before end of this cycle which would only give me a day or two to get meds if they took me on to start straight away.  do you know whether Ali in Shadwell is generally able to get drugs on a fast turnaround?

I saw you cancelled your appt at the Lister.  I'm sorry..I really hope you feel up to it next month


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

You need to give him 24 hr notice... He is quick and reliable...  Good luck... I would frankly go for the Lister with low stimms...


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

wow 24 hrs, that's good.  Yes despite it being uncomfortable changing horses I hope the Lister can take us to cycle in April.  thanks for the wishes.


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

well...I am officially on the dreaded 2ww...been here just a few times before of course   when ttc au naturelle ....so different when you know you have an embryo and the real possibility of a pregnancy

Found everyone at LFC really lovely.  It was a gigantic relief when phoning the lab to get through straight away to someone who remembers your name and sounds upbeat while confirming your identity!


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Well-done Juicy...and good luck for your 2 ww.. Let's hope for a big fat positive


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

thanks Incon!!


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Yes good luck Juicy. You did well if they got one egg to ET stage!

Incon - I know you have been advised to consider egg donation, we have been told that if our next cycle produces embies of similar poor quality we should consider it too. From what you know, do you think that the low stimm approach produces eggs of better quality and therefore it would be worth trying that first? I produced a decent no. of eggs last time (7 from 10 follies) so it may have just been a dud batch!

Wiggie x


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Hi Wiggie - if I was producing that kind of no I would go for it.  High quantity of drugs does compromise the quality of eggs.  There is both research evidence and lots of anecdotal stories about this...

I would defo try a low stimm approach in your position. Also LP is known to improve the quality.  IN your case you may get half the nos but the quality is better.  A low stimm antagonist protocol will keep you the quantity and help with the quality...  

Both the Lister and the LFC are willing to do low stimm approaches if you ask for them.  

Go for it girl... At 38 it's not too late at all.  And I wouldn't listen to the first donor speech. I also know of people who have been given the speech and conceived.  Welshibird is one ... She was told by the ARGC and they normally give people a chance... Also recently KMags succeeded on lower dose of 300 puregon whereas she was unsuccessful on full stims of 600 at the ARGC.  Good luck...  Only you will be able to decide when you are ready to give up...  Don't listen to drs just to yourself and what your body is telling you...


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Thanks Incon - have been considering a consultation with the Lister... is their low-stimms approach with or without downregging? I think Geeta normally does her cycles without down-regging doesn't she? 

Guys have advised that I try a short protocol with the same amount of drugs (300iu) next time but from what you say a long protocol (which I had last time) may be better. Guys' view was that a short protocol means that you ovaries don't have to work so hard to produce the same results....

Wiggie x


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

I think that they will tailor a protocol to suit you...  I would go for a consultation.  They have had good results with Lukey for ex . Admiteddly 2 chemical pregnancies but in her other cycles and she had 7 elsewhere she never got that far.    If you produce 8 follies on a lp, that sounds pretty good... I 'd go for it...


----------



## tinastar (Jun 7, 2007)

Hi

Hope I am posting this in the right area!  We are just about to consider our next IVF, and I don't know much about natural IVF but just wondered if anyone could give me an idea of the cost?  The thing is our money is running out.

I was hoping it might be less than standard IVF.

Thanks. Tina x


----------



## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Hi

There's already an active running thread for ladies having natural IVF so why not join them as I'm sure they'll be able to answer your questions...

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=131685.30

Good luck
Natasha


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Dear Tina I hope you join us on the thread but if it helps, at Create clinic in London, they offer low stimulation IVF and natural cycle IVF (as well as standard ivf, icsi)

The low stimulation approach has been cheaper in the past but prices have gone up this month and it will now cost £2840 plus drugs.  You do tend to save money on drugs with this approach just because there are fewer to buy

I have just had a controlled natural cycle IVF and it cost £1890 plus drugs of £430...even though it is 'natural' I still needed some gonal f to keep the follicle growing and some cetrotide to control ovulation.

sorry you have had a rough time of it so far - good luck with what you decide to do


----------



## tinastar (Jun 7, 2007)

Hi

Thanks for your reply. I will look into the Create clinic. It seems you do save some money!

Best of luck for your test date

xx



Juicy said:


> Dear Tina I hope you join us on the thread but if it helps, at Create clinic in London, they offer low stimulation IVF and natural cycle IVF (as well as standard ivf, icsi)
> 
> The low stimulation approach has been cheaper in the past but prices have gone up this month and it will now cost £2840 plus drugs. You do tend to save money on drugs with this approach just because there are fewer to buy
> 
> ...


----------



## tinastar (Jun 7, 2007)

Hi

Thanks - I will have a look! And best of luck for this cycle  

Tina x[quote



♥ Minxy ♥ said:


> Hi
> 
> There's already an active running thread for ladies having natural IVF so why not join them as I'm sure they'll be able to answer your questions...
> 
> ...


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Tina - just wanted to say that the LFC has a special offer for low stimm protocol for £1800 if you have done less than 3 cycles and fsh is less than 8. Age under 35 but this may include you if you 're borderline.  The price of their  ivf is £2700.  You can request a low stimm approach (I did when I went for a consultation and it's not a problem).  They also do immune treatment with prednisolone.   Also note that the Create does their egg collection at the LFC!

The Lister ivf is £3200. They also would do a low stimm approach if you ask for it.  Checked!

Lfc has no wl and the Lister has 2-3 wks.  Just thought I would post this in case you need to wait for Geeta for some time.  I waited for my app for nearly 3 months.  The wl may have gone down as the prices are no longer as competitive as they used to be...Good luck!


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

wow that's an amazing deal Incon (re LFC).  Thank you so much, 
I might check that out though knowing my luck my FSH will have gone back up this month (it was 7.2 before I started this cycle)

I really really liked the LFC, and said to my dh this morning that we should think about just going to them direct next month.  Am going to phone them now.

My appt at the Lister is the same day as my pg test this month and dh insisting we put it back but any later would mean missing out next month


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Juicy - you can do a htp 2-3 days before.  The Lister app can be xled 2 days before although I have heard of people xling it just a day before. So you can play it by ear?  Good luck!

Hello everybody....?  Is anybody worried about the financial upheaval ie the markets gone mad and credit crunch deepening?


----------



## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Ladies...

...I'm going to merge this thread with the original active thread for Natural IVF just so we can keep it all in one place and so we don't have 2 separate threads with same info running at same time 

Good luck to you all....
 
Natasha


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Thanks Natasha!

Incon good point re cancelling the appt at Lister though am freaking out at the thought of testing early ....though in fairness, I did follow another poster's tip about clearblue digitals on special offer and bought three packs  


I am worried about the credit crunch because I may well need a lot more credit once the loan i've already taken for ivf has been spent!  It is all quite scary and Northern Rock are now shedding jobs and halving their lending book - they are our mortgage co but thank goodness we still have 2.5 years of our fixed deal to go.  It seems they are not offering remortgages to many whose deals finish around now.


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Hello everyone...so sorry to be out of touch for so long.  A lot of stress....not just IVF related, though that too.

Good luck Juicy! How are you feeling?

And Incon - can't find the message where it says you cancelled at the Lister - what happened there?

I'm nearly three weeks post hysteroscopy and getting ready to start stimming. I bought my drugs at Ali's in Shadwell and saved myself about two hundred quid. Having a bit of a dilemma regarding my period; as I had two periods last month (my body was confused after the progesterone and estrogen I'd taken following my American hysto) I seem to be quite late now; around five days which is unusual for me. (Definitely not pregnant.)

I was wondering whether to start IVF this month or wait till I get back to a normal cycle. Both Create and Dr. Feinman in America (who gave me the first hystos and did a great job removing the scar tissue) say it doesn't matter when I start stimming...the fact that my period is late doesn't affect my fertility. On the other hand Trevor Wing, this natural health guy I was seeing last year, thinks I should wait till my cycle gets back to normal. (Waiting anymore at all seems scary at my age.) So quite confused as usual! Geeta gave me a scan a couple of weeks ago and said my ovaries looked 'very happy.'  My temps are still high which shows there's a lot of progesterone floating round. 

(I also posted a new thread about whether to ICSI or not...LFC recommend it, Geeta doesn't! (I actually posted a new thread about it so hope I'm not being greedy by mentioning it here too..)

Would welcome all views...


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

I would icsi it Sally...  You ensure that all your eggs will fertilize... I would go for it... You risk more with ivf...

I 'd go with the gut feeling re cycling... See how you feel and what feels right...    

Juicy - good luck....


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks Incon...it is 700 pounds more and I've had such mixed feedback on this; I produced a similar result with IVF and ICSI before (in fact the embryos were slightly better with ICSI.)

Period still hasn't come! Don't know quite what my gut says about when to start...I think it's influenced by my desire to start soon! (Which doesn't necessarily mean it's the right thing.)


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Then go for it if you feel ready...Sally...

I xled the Lister bcs I couldn't face it...


----------



## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

INCONCEIVABLE said:


> I would icsi it Sally... You ensure that all your eggs will fertilize... I would go for it... You risk more with ivf...


Hi

Sorry to contradict here but there is no guarantee of fertilisation with ICSI....and certainly not all your eggs. We had to have ICSI with our 2nd IVF because for some unknown reason DPs swimmers decided to play up (never happened before and never happened since !)....anyway, we got 19 eggs and 10 fertilised through ICSI....(with our 1st IVF we got 10 eggs and 7 fertilised through IVF....with our 3rd IVF we got 16 eggs and 8 fertilised)

With either IVF or ICSI there are no guarantees of fertilisation....all that's different is that with IVF the eggs and sperm are left to their own devices...with ICSI the sperm is directly injected into the egg but sometimes the egg can rupture and sometimes fertilisation just doesn't happen.

Take care
Natasha


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

If you are using frozen sperm icsi seems to be a better bet... This again is fairly anectodal and not entirely proven by research.


----------



## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

INCONCEIVABLE said:


> If you are using frozen sperm icsi seems to be a better bet... This again is fairly anectodal and not entirely proven by research.


But unfortunately still doesn't guarantee that all eggs will be fertilised........I think it would be misleading to say to this.


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Best to go with what you feel is right for you Sal.... 

Hello Minxy...


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

I'm leaning towards IVF, given that my results were similar both times and in fact my IVF results were slightly better.

It will be about five months on now and I hope I haven't declined terribly...

Period still hasn't come yet!!


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Is that a major delay?  

I am debating with dh the next step... Give up on own eggs and go to work nearly full time to get out of the house or cycle once again and face most likely another negative...

DH against donor eggs.  We are debating pros and cons... Never easy... Having a little break...

I can only give up on own eggs if I have got an alternative of having a child... DH doesn't seem to get this at all... We are both very stressed....


----------



## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Incon, I think taking a breather and doing a bit of a review is a wise idea.  You guys are so stressed by everything that you have to take a step back or go mad.  

Hey all, sorry I've been AWOL.  Getting ready to go to NZ on Tue (!) and it's a bit nuts.  Haven't had time to think about IVF really.  We did however manage a last minute appointment with Mr Minhas at the Lister.  His PA is so great, oh boy could Create learn a thing or two about how they run a clinic.

Anyways, it turns out we were supposed to have a Y-deletion test done as well as all the others (which they forgot to specify) but other than that, all Rich's tests are perfectly normal.  The fact that he's had an SA with some sperm would indicate that there's no blockage or chromosomal problem as such (barring anything coming up on the Y-deletion), it looks like not all his testes produce sperm, so it's a bit of a lottery.  Sounds like they just got lucky when he and the ex had ICSI last time and produced his daughter.

So, the plan is to do regular sperm collections for storage, hope like hell that we get lucky on egg collection day, and keep TESE in mind as a 2nd backup (not his fav idea).  

I'm pretty happy with all that, at least we know where we stand.  I did consider for one wild moment asking him to do a sperm collection before we go so that I could cycle at Create whilst I was back in the UK waiting for my visa - but decided against it.  I don't have huge confidence in Create and it would be too stressful to try and schedule a collection along with everything else we have to cram in.

I'll just have to contact the auckland clinic when I get there I guess.  The good news is that he seems ready to have a crack at a cycle in the not to distant future.  Let's hope it stays that way!

How's everyone else doing?  We haven't had an update session for a while.


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi all

Re: ICSI versus IVF debate: when we spoke to Guys about this following out last cycle and they said they prefer to use IVF where possible, as it encourages "natural selection" during fertilisation stage. UCH also said at their open evening that there is no difference between success rates of IVF versus ICSI. 

Some clinics will do 50% ICS 50% IVF if you have enough eggs - but they are not allowed to mix ICSI and IVF embryos on transfer (don't know why the HFEA guidelines say this - maybe something to do with monitoring and follow up?)

Sally - I wouldn't worry too much about your AF, my Chinese doctor says that it can vary 5 days either side of your normal cycle, it's when it gets to less than 21 days or more than 35 days that they view it as "abnormal".

Incon - I can relate to the debates you are having re: donor eggs, especially if your DH is against it. The way we see it (if we need to go down that route) is that at least the child would be 50% ours - unlike adoption where they are no relation. Also if my younger sister agrees to donate her eggs (which she is potentially prepare to do) then it is kept in the family, so to speak! But there are no easy answers and you need to do what's right for you.

Julianne - good luck with your next steps, whether it's here or over in NZ!

Hello to everyone else

Wiggie x


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Julianne - good to hear from you... Probably better to get to NZ and try to cycle with all the stress of moving... Good news about the LIster app and the fact that Rich is ready to cycle asap. 

Wigie - good luck with your next cycle... 

Sally - Forgot to mention that the aRGC often does 50% of ivf/icsi.  You are a good responder so you should be ok with your fav approach. 

Us - no decision as yet...Just working on getting better first...


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

I am breaking my silence and just wanted to say Hi as I have been lurking on this thread now for a few weeks thanks to Wiggie and Juicy

I was / am (I guess) under Create on a mild / natural cycle but am looking to move to LFC if they will accept me for their mild protocol - don't get me started on why I want to move clinic - I guess its the same as for a lot of people but my patience has worn out now.

Just wanted to say good luck to everyone - Juicy not long now to wait - sending you some   to help

Hi to everyone and hope you don't mind if I keep lurking in the background as I mainly post on the London TTC thread

Lorraine x


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Hello Lorraine - good to hear from new people always...  Good luck with the next cycle... 

I guess it must be the usual Create stuff?


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hello all 

Lorraine, nice to see you on this thread!

tomorrow is my OTD but I i really couldn't face waiting for the result of a blood test tomorrow without having some indication of the result. I used a clearblue digital this morning and it said BFN.  

I have read quite a few posts saying 11dpt is too early for a definitive result but also a lot from people who got reliable positives, so I feel pretty sure that we are not going to get a nice surprise tomorrow

After the blood test, we are heading to the Lister so hopefully having a plan in place by Friday at the latest (after LFC appt) will help

Sally, I hope your period has arrived or is about to so that you can press on...


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Sorry to hear that Juicy, though I have heard of several fake BFN's at 11 days...fingers crossed for tomorrow!

Incon, I hope you are and your DH are finding your way....have you contacted any of those therapists? It sounds like you sure could use some proper support!

Good luck with your cycle Wiggle...

Period still not here; it's about eight days late. This is because I had two periods in February due to the drug therapy post hysteroscopy (fairly high doses of estrogen and progesterone.) I even did a pregnancy test (not that there was any real chance - just wanted to see if my body was confused about this too.) My temps have been high so I guess my progesterone has been high too, though it dropped today and I've been getting sugar cravings which is often a sign of being pre-menstrual (or just an excuse to eat crap.)

Speaking of which, I haven't been too healthy in my run-up to stims...some caffeine and alcohol and too much food generally....has everyone else been clean as a whistle?


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

pah....BFN remains the position.   £51 wasted on a blood test (tbh, i cannot believe that the clinics in general don't build the cost of a test into the cycle price - it smarts a  bit more having to pay for bad news at the end of the cycle!)

still, we had consults at LFC and Lister today and are going with the Lister as soon as my period arrives.  Saw Dr Thum and thought he was lovely - quite upbeat about it all which was a relief.

the low stimm approach is now a dim and distant dream for us - I will be starting on max stimms and if I respond ok, the dose can be reduced. I feel so much more confident that i will be monitored properly at Lister and that they have real expertise with my problems.

Sally, fingers crossed AF arrives soon... it must be frustrating but I suppose your body has been through a fair bit and needs time to readjust.  I'm glad you've been being kind to yourself with wine and food - you deserve it...better to go into stimms having had a proper rest and a nice time than all tense and deprived!  having said that, I have managed (for first time in my adult life) to go 4 weeks without a drink since finding out about my fsh and have cut out most caffeine bar one tea a day.  It's been hard ...really really hard !!!  so straight after BFN was confirmed we went for tapas and two lovely glasses of wine.  And i had tonnes of chocolate on sunday too after giving it up for lent!  ( had a terrible caffeine headache on monday as a result!)

Incon, sorry things are still rough and you have so many big decisions to make.  Once you have had a breather, a fresh appt at the Lister might just give you the boost you need...

hello wiggie, Julianne - good luck with the rest of your moving preps!  cannot imagine how much work it is to move to NZ!


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Juicy, I'm so sorry to hear that...and know just what you mean about having to pay £51 for the privilege of bad news! It's devastating I know, but you are still nice and young and I think you'll get there in the end. It says in your info that you have a 'raised FSH." How high is it, if you don't mind me asking?

My period did arrive today, so will start stimming tomorrow. 

A friend of mine is looking into IVF for the first time and she actually had a bad experience with the Lister consult and now she's looking into UCH, which she says is doing well in the league tables. Does anyone know anything about UCH? (I'm asking for her really - I can't afford to switch clinics myself and will probably stay with Create due to how well they did for me the last time.)

Is anyone here still at Create? At least Lee's gone and the new nurse - Freida - sounds very nice on the phone...


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

thanks so much Sally, and god I hope you're right that i'll get there...I don't feel young at the moment, i can tell you!  My fsh was 13.5 last November and E2 was 96.  Last month Geeta asked me to test and it was 7.2 but she hadn't asked for the E2 so I don't know if that was a 'true' result.  The docs have said that at my age my eggs should in theory be ok though and that's why it was such a relief to have the natural cycle and an egg which fertilised into a good quality embryo

I think you are right to stay where you are especially if you have a good rapport with Geeta which it sounds like you do.
Freda the new nurse is very nice, I read about all the problems with Lee which were not good.  Freda is Irish and seems very warm and competent.  Good luck with the stimming, I look forward to hearing how you get on!

sorry i don't know about UCH but hope your friend has better luck.  it's terrible having a bad consultation for the amount they cost..


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi Juicy

Sorry to hear about your BFN, don't blame you for going out and having tapas and wine - well there has to be some compensation doesn't there! Good luck with the Lister - although I'm surprised they didn't offer the low-stimms approach, given it sounds like you had a dramatic drop in FSH (from 13.5 to 7.2) - did they give any reason why? Also what level of stimms will you be on, out of interest?

Sally - we went for one of the open evenings at UCH, my DH was impressed with the clinicians there and it looks like they do lots of testing, e.g. assessing AMH levels, and doing the ovarian stress test before you begin tx to see how you respond to stimms. However I know that they do turn down people who they think will not respond well, and ultimately we didn't feel that the extra money was worth the limited difference in success rates between them and Guys. Also the lead cons at Guys also pooh-pooed the UCH ovarian stress test and AMH testing saying that it made no difference - but then I guess all these docs like to think that their programme is best!

Welcome to Lorraine (another Create survivor) - I think you're right Sally, there are very few of us still with Geeta now!

And Sally good luck with your stimms

Wiggie x


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

thank you very much Wiggie.  

I will be on 450 menopur to start with.  Hope to goodness that i respond well and so that can be reduced. however, whilst my dh was very supportive of whatever I wanted to do, i feel i owe it to him to maximise our chances of success on the next cycle and if that means blasting my ovaries, well,  a month.. i can just about cope with - I hope

even on 450, the expectation is that i will get 8-10 follicles anyway.  both lister and LFC assured me that higher stimms would not affect egg quality.  I don't think I believe that at all but again, am prepared to take a leap of faith for this cycle

and even Geeta was going to put me on 300 gonal f if I'd stayed with Create. I only had 5 antral follicles at my scan with her which is not great...hence I am hoping for a good response.

Not long till you start with Guys now...hope you have a good month in preparation.  Are you doing other stuff - acu, hypnotherapy etc.  Have tried to book some hypnotherapy and got some acu coming up...though have found there is some stress involved in making these appts and getting to them, not to mention paying for them!!


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sally - UCH is a good bet for people under 35 or up to 39 if they are good responders... Their ovarian stress test, which is what swayed me to go with them is a joke, really from this perspective...  I was choosing at the time btw them and the Lister and stupidly didn't do a consultation at both. They prevented me to cycle, but yet they told me 'we can get you pregnant', whcih made me stay with them.  

Ovarian stress test is really fsh test + E2 + ultrasound... a bit glorified for what it is...
AMH test I believe a bit more in...  

They have good results in the league tables, but only bcs they don't let people do ivf unless they meet a v. stringent criteria... They suggest gift or iuis for anybody who has remotely poor chances...So, the results are really skewed... Retrospectively, I think I would have done 3 ivf cycles at the LIster within a year and would have had some closure by now regardless of the results...
Also they do have a cut off point of 42 yrs of age.  

Good luck with your cycle...Hoping for a good result for you... 

Juicy - good luck at the Lister....Are you doing a LP?  

Wigie - god luck to you, too... Fingers crossed...

I just hope I find a way forward somehow...But this is a bloody tough game... and not for faint-hearted. Wish I had known that before it was too late for me...


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks everyone for your UCH feedback which I've passed onto my friend. She's 39 with a good FSH so should be a good candidate. She had a bad experience with a doctor at the Lister and came out feeling really confused. 

Thanks Juicy for the encouraging words about staying with Create...it's beginning to feel a bit lonely here, being one of the only remaining patients! Frieda does sound nice on the phone. 

I think if it doesn't work this time and I can afford to do another one, I'll probably go to the states.

Good luck Wiggle and Juicy...


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Let's hope it works for you Sally...

Sounds like you have a good back up plan, too.  But hope you won't need it...


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hello

Hope everyone is well today

DH and I were seen for at LFC this morning and they were fantastic.  We are going onto their mild protocol which their are a lot of different protocols with that they can tailor to individual needs
This is the mild special offer protocol and seems from the outset to be good value but I will stay objective for the time being

Speak soon

Lorraine x


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

ooh well done Lorraine, how exciting!  It does seem like a good deal - suppose it's natural for us to wonder what the catch is but hopefully you'll find there isn't one!

with this IF business rendering me   I have spent the night wondering whether I should be worried that the Lister weren't more pessimistic about our chances...we can't win, can we!  

Look forward to hearing about your protocol etc as you get into it   

Hi Incon, I am on a short protocol...in fact I will start stimming on saturday as my period arrived bang on time...tomorrow is day 1 and I have a scan at lunchtime! (thought AF might give me a break over the weekend after all the progesterone but no....!!)

Good luck with injections Sally


----------



## ClaireP (Feb 18, 2005)

Hi girls,

Juicy - thanks for your reply to my post and directing me to this thread etc..

I've been avidly reading the entire thread this evening and realise that there seem to be some grievances with Create, I've got an appt with them end of May but I was in 2 minds to start with and now I feel worse!!  I get the impression they are disorganised and you don't know whether you are coming or going with them... is that right?  After the money we've spent I don't want to really waste more if there is a better place for low stimm or natural ivf elsewhere (i know this is only a matter of opinion) but all opinions are gratefully received!!

Just as a brief history, I've just had a BFN with ARGC after a really poor response to the max dose of drugs, i got 3 eggs and only one was suitable for fertilisation - it did go to 10 cell on day 3 but it sadly didn't work.... I also have immune issues etc and original mf so we need icsi.  I wanted to try nat ivf as with my high fsh/e2 levels I don't see the point on spending so much on drugs to get the same result with low dose or natural....the only success i've had was a FET cycle (my fifth attempth) and i had my gorgeous son 2 years ago... the consultant told me that fet suited me better due to the naturalness of the cycle rather than loads of drugs floating around affecting implantation etc.  However i think my ageing ovaries will not afford me the luxury of frozen embies again, so i am now at a crossroads with trying again at same clinic or poss the Lister as they do well with high fshers or trying for a natural ivf cycle...

Any advice would be really appreciated from those experienced with natural ivf etc and do you know whether Create  support immune issues at all? if not, what explanation do they give?

Thanks girls
Claire x


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Good Morning
Claire - Create do get some excellent results. Clinically I personally couldn't fault them however its the overall support and admin that just became ridiculous and having now waited 6 weeks for a follow up and had now 3 calls not returned I threw in the towel and have moved to LFC who were great on my initial appt yesterday.  It simply dawned on me that for the amount of money we all spend you should get a good service.  Only you can make that decision.  I am afraid I dont know about Immune speciality within Create - maybe speak to LondonLou on the London TTC thread as she is up to speed on this.

Juicy - fab news about stimming again so quickly Go Girl!!   By the way I am wondering what the catch is as well for LFC Mild Stim - will keep you posted - seems to good to be true!! 

Hi Wiggie - will PM you later today for a catch up

Incon and Sally - hope all is well

 for everyone

Lorraine xx


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Hi Juicy 

Just looked in on this thread to see how you got on with your natural cycle.  I'm really sorry about your BFN but it's great to hear you sounding so positive already.  I'm glad to hear your Lister appointment went so well.  Did they make you have another FSH before taking you on? 

Sally, I'm at Create so don't feel lonely!  Though I hardly qualify as a natural cycle! Last time I took 450 of Gonal lF and for my next cycle in April I'll be on 300 of Menapur.  

Claire, Create have been ok for me.  Their admin systems are pretty poor and you have to chase things up but I couldn't bear the thought of starting again somewhere else.  And after our last IVF Geeta phoned us personally and found time to see us the next day so I couldn't fault her. But I don't think Geeta will engage with immune issues.


xxxx



xxxx


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

grrr just lost a big post!!!! 


to repeat, in summary form!  Francie, thank you so much for thinking of me.  I knew the natural cycle was a small chance but it fulfilled it's purpose - reassured us that my egg was ok and that it fertilised and gave us an idea of what to expect on a medicated cycle and of course the joy of another 2ww but the bonus of finding out...it's only 12 days really!!

wishing and   that your cycle goes well.  It must be extra stress arranging transport and accommodation etc.  If you need to offload on a fellow ffer over a kaliber/decaf, do get in touch...i'm in london (dalston/city for work).  The lister didn't ask me for another fsh test before taking me on, he said one high reading was the benchmark (13.5) but my age should (!) work in my favour

Claire please don't worry about Create.  There is no issue with Geeta, for me the waiting times were frustrating - you have to sign a form agreeing that you may not be seen at your appt time!  we waited an hour and a half the day of my antral follicle scan - not good as I had just got my fsh result, and was on the verge of tears (and then got more bad news re follicles!).  But I admire what Geeta does and the options she offers.  i haven't ruled out going back

Hi Lorraine, Sally   ...best wishes from my last night of freedom...have had half an expensive bottle of wine and some choc...looking forward to my 450 menopur at 10am tomorrow - driving to chelsea to be stabbed by the nurse !!

Incon?  how's it going?!


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi Juicy

I know what it's like to have lost a post - have done that a few times by pressing the wrong key at the wrong moment!! It's easily done

Good luck with your stimms. At least with having had a natural cycle you don't need to wait the 2-3 months before proceeding with the next tx. Let us know how you get on with the Lister. 

In answer to your question I have acupuncture every 4-5 weeks and take chinese herbs in between, I have been doing this for 18 months now to help with fibroids and endo, and it appears to have worked as my periods are a lot less heavy and painful now. Also my last scan showed the remaining fibroids had reduced in size (I had 3 others removed surgically). 

I also have specific herbs to take during my IVF tx. I know some clinics are reluctant for patients to take the herbs during tx but as I have been taking them for a while now and they are tailored to my condition I am pretty confident that it is the right thing to do.  Basically the herbs have the same effect as acupuncture, they just work in a different way. But it does all add to the costs!

Hi to everyone else

Wiggie x


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Just to say hello...

I would say that it all depends re individual experience... I found my time with the Create quite damaging ... their letting me cycle with a cyst and then stopping the cycle and when questioned Geeta requested a psychiatric report that I am fit to cycle..., which was a good old blaming the patient game... So, frankly I don't think that caring professionals in this v. sensitive business should put us under more strain than we already are...

I would recommend a clinic where you get a better service... I would say that there are some clinical issues, too such as cycling with a cyst, which I now know is not allowed elsewhere. LFC have told me that they wouldn't have proceeded and so have the LIster and the ARGC and the UCH where I was previously have never allowed it...

Hello to everybody...

These are the opinions of the member not FF or its associates


----------



## ClaireP (Feb 18, 2005)

Hi girls

Sorry to keep picking your brains - but one day I decide to go ahead with my appt at Create and then I'm the opposite - thanks for your reassurances with them though - my decision is based on (thanks Juicy) speaking to Londonlou as she said Create aren't interested in immune issues and her cons at Care Notts said that natural ivf and immunies isn't a good idea as it's more money to spend on immune drugs on just one fertilised egg.

I'm still very undecided - Can I just ask a few more q's... after your initial consultation there - do they want some fsh readings off you and what is an antral follicle scan?  Do you know what the success rates with nat ivf? etc or low dose stimming actually are at Create?  Does Create have the best success rates for nat ivf?  
Does anyone know exactly when they will start EC's at Raynes park to reduce costs again?

Also is LFC the London Fertility Centre ? do they do natural ivf as well?  

So sorry for asking so many questions...!!! I am soooooooo stuck on what to do!! I'm thinking that my body does better without drugs re implantation and I can't see FET being an option anymore for me given that I am obviously now a poor responder.  However I've got immune issues hanging over me although this time they were a lot lower 

Sorry my head is going to explode with indecisiveness!! don't know who else to ask without it costing me even more money!!

Enjoy this lovely sunny day!

Claire xx


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

HI Claire
Dont get stressed about your indecisiveness its god to make an informed decision.  I catn answer your whole post but can tell you the the ETA for starting EC and transfer at Create is June.  I acutally wrote to the HFEA aboiut this as I wanted to know what kind of procedure create have to go through to get a license - I wanted to reassure myself that they would be capable of getting a license to practice.  Whilst HFEA could not give me specific details they did say that it takes 3 months to get a license and gave me the impression that Create were still to go though this process.  I would expect a little delay as it must be hard to get a clnic up and running so quickly - I dont know if you know the history of how this has come about but I can fill you in at some point if you like.
Anyway I would be reassured by having EC and transfer at LFC (london fert centre)- the only difference is that the prices will be slightly higher but at least natural is cheaper all round anyway.
LFC do offer the mild stimulation as well so I donr know if you have looked at just going to them.
I really symapthise with your predicament, to be honest sometimes too much info on a clinic is a bad thing!!!
Take Care 

Lorraine xx


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Claire, I read about antral follicles on a site called www.advancedfertility.com and I can't summarise it better than they have.  Look under causes of infertility.

You might have to have an fsh test at the start of a mild cycle because in any month your score determines your possible response to the drugs and your dose can be adjusted accordingly.

A few clinics do mild stimulation ivf but Create seem to be the only ones that have it as their primary focus.  Geeta Nargund is well known as the leading exponent of this approach and if you google her name you will find helpful explanations.  The success rates are lower because higher number of eggs = higher success rates but it only takes one egg and for some people this approach will fit better with their circumstances

I know how you feel with the indecision too!  There is so much to think about but you will get there in time - good luck x




/links


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Juicy, thanks for your message and the offer of a meet up.  I might take you up on that if you can bear it (as soon as I start stimming I know I will turn into a fully fledged basket case incapable of rational thought!).  I expect to start stimming in about 10 days depending on my AF.  Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek! I so hope you're doing ok with the stimms and doing a better job than me on the sanity front.      for loads of follies.

Claire, good luck with your decision making.  To add much to what the others have said,  I didn't have to have another FSH test at Create (my previous one was 4 months earlier) but I did have an antral follie count (the number of small follies early a cycle) and a blood flow analysis with a Doppler ultrasound (same as a normal internal ultra sound).  Last time I spoke to Geeta she said they would be doing their own EG, lab work and ET by May or June but this may have slipped.

xxxx


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi Francie, stimms are going ok ta, apart from massive paranoia that I don't have enough symptoms/nothing's going on!

I was actually pleased at lunchtime to think 'oh I do feel really quite bloated actually'...!

I'm also having palpitations thinking about the scan tomorrow morning and asking what my fsh result is this month.  

had hypnosis last night and felt v relaxed but nicely energetic afterwards - still woke at 4am panicking about response though and wondering what the hell is going on in there!

but with a bit of luck I'll be finished stimming as you start, so can try to 'debasket' you with calm words!  will pm you my contact details x


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hello Hope everyone is well

Juicy - dont be paranoid I had no symptoms at all not even with Cyclogest which was weird
Good luck for your scan tomorrow 

Lorraine x


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi Lorraine, thanks for the wishes...scan was horrid though, I only had four follicles.

two were already quite big, so I had to have a massive shot of cetrotide there and then which cost £247    

great, so now I am a poor responder - consistent with my other problems but still not nice for it to be official!  Lister Nurse was very kind and encouraging though

Just   that all 4 are still there and ok for next scan Sat, then for next scan Monday, then for EC etc etc etc....even learning so much about the process from this site cannot prepare you for the gut wrenching stress of it all, and not even a glass of wine to chill out with!

Hope you're well...and you Francie?

hello to ClaireP and Wiggie in case they're looking in!!


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi JUicy

Know what you mean about making things official - I've just had a copy of my GP letter from Guys following our last appointment confirming that if my next tx has similar results they would recommend egg donation....even though we had discussed it with them at the time, and we know this is an option we may have to seriously consider, it still hurts to see it written down in black & white!

CLaire - good luck with your decision-making, we also agonised about which clinic, I think they all have their pros and cons but you have to go with the one that feels right for you.

Hi to Lorraine, Francie, Incon and everyone else...

Wiggie x


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Hello everyone...nice to be back on the site. You've all been busy!

Regarding Create: I do feel that Incon and several others have got a raw deal from Create and I don't want to make light of that. A friend of mine has just started at UCH and I'm jealous of how many exploratory things they're making her do first...how conscientious they are etc.

And I can't say how I'd feel about doing my actual IVF with them rather than LFC...it's far cheaper but they'll just be cutting their teeth and if I have to move onto another clinic I probably will lean towards the Lister of LFC fulltime. 

However, I have to say that Lee's absence and Frieda's presence - as well as a Lithuanian woman whose name I can't remember - makes a big difference! They are much nicer and at least at Harley Street, I've hardly had to wait at all. Have to admit I do quite like Geeta though she is obviously over-subscribed and a bit disorganized!

Also Claire, they have done well for me so far in regard to eggs and embryos...hope this helps. 

So sorry to hear your news, Juicy....but pardon my naivete, is that necessarily bad? Have you had an estrogen blood test - doesn't that show whether there are eggs in there or not? 

And must be hard for you too Wiggle...I have several friends who have wonderful egg donation babies and they're happy as they can be now, but it's still quite a transition; grieving your own eggs and all of that. Hope you take it nice and easy, whatever you decide. 

I've been stimming for a week and today I had a scan. I had fourteen follicles - seven in the left, six in the right; the largest is nearly fourteen which means I probably won't be ready for egg collection till Tuesday or Wednesday. 

The thing that's bothering me is that Geeta wants to lower my FSH from 150 to 112 or something like that....I don't want to lower it, I want to produce as many eggs as possible! But she thinks I could overstimulate and ruin the whole thing by doing that.

I have another scan tomorrow in Raynes Park as well as another blood test, I think to determine when I should take the trigger shot and how much. I had an estrogen test today which was quite high.

Advice welcome...


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sally ...hello... Good to hear from you at last...

Good to hear you are stimming,too.. Excellent folly count!  Well-done...  Don't know what to advise re the gonal f.  You have got all the follies that you are going to get, so not sure how the dosage will affect anything at this point...  On the other hand, she is not suggesting a huge reduction.  You will probably be OK.  Well-done girl...  It's so fantastic that some of us oldies can still deliver the goods.. Whohoo....

Wiggie - it's always shocking the donor egg ...  and it does involve a huge transition...  I have been thinking about it for a whole year and am none the wiser... DH most hesitant... 

Juicy - good luck girl... 

Lorraine - when are you cycling at the LFC or have you started already...

MY period is v. late.. ON 36 days today...  Hope it's not menopause yet...


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks Incon, that's helpful as ever! Your late period....could it be....? Just heard of a friend of a friend who was told she was infertile, did two failed IVF's, and then got pregnant naturally! Stranger things have happened!

I'm back to acupuncture which I'm really enjoying; it seems to be calming me down a bit too. Been doing visualizations, even some quite corny ones...anyone else do that? 

Good luck Juicy and Lorraine...


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Hi everyone

Juicy, sorry to hear about your scan.  I know so well that horrible heart in the mouth feeling of looking at the screen and waiting for the drs verdict. The whole process couldn't be more effective at driving us mad if that was what it was designed for.  BUT 4 is 4 and it only takes 1. When I cycle this time (propably start in about a week depending on the AF), I'll be allowing myself an odd glass of wine while I stim.  Having given up most nice things and been very absentemious (and miserable) during my first 2 IVFs I'm going to relax abit this time.  So don't drive yourself mad.  I'm sure one glass won't make a difference. 

Sally, I spent over 2 years at UCH, being told I would get pregnant again naturally and to relax and be positive.  Then went straight to being told that my FSH was too high for IVF! Iwas prescibed 6 IUIs that would probably be useless given my history of ectopics.  We only did 2 then changed clinics. But be then we had lost over 2 years and spent several thousand pounds!  Everybody has different experiences of clinics and at the end of the day people tend to rate the ones that get them pregnant.  14 follies is great! Good luck for the EC.

Wiggie, sorry you've been upset by that letter. But you know sometimes people get a very different result with a sp. 

Inc, maybe you should test....  I know it's so horrible to get a BFN but at least you would know for sure.  Do you think you ovulated this month?  If so it's not the menopause. 

Lorraine, hope you're doing ok.

xxxx


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Wiggie....that letter sounds horrid, god i suppose it's better to tell you first but a letter is a bit cold and anyway just because they recommend the switch doesn't mean every other clinic would agree with them.  I hope and asssume that you would then consider taking opinions elsewhere before making any decisions.  

Anyway, your next cycle is going to different and far better!  All we need is a tiny bit of luck on our side...  

Sally, woohoooo for all the follicles!!!  that's brilliant omg you must be so excited!!  look after them over the weekend!  The lithuanian nurse is called Erika, I think that's who you mean.  I agree re the new surgery in Raynes Park - me and dh have been discussing our options if this cycle doesn't work, and I have suggested we should just knuckle down and commit to doing 5 or 6 consecutive natural cycles with Geeta (on the basis she would do us a deal on the ££!) but the switch from the LFC is a concern

Perhaps Lorraine knows whether LFC would do the full  controlled natural cycle themselves?

Francie, thanks - 4 is indeed 4 (a bloomin expensive 4 at that).  We're still in the game...it would be excellent if those 4 were all the right size at EC, that's all I hope for.  Am petrified am going to lose the bigger ones before then and the smaller ones won't have eggs or something!

They didn't have my blood test results yesterday, I'll def ask tomorrow about my E2 though - thanks Sally I hadn't thought about it indicating presence of eggs (though that makes perfect sense!  )

Incon have AF shown up?thanks for the good wishes


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Wiggie - I would try the Lister in your place...  They have experience with high fsh and low responders... And you are not such a bad responder with 7 eggs.       And you are 38 which is not old....       I would switch....  

Lukey - had 5 cycles I think at Guys and she said on one occasion that she would have switched a lot sooner given her time back.  She has now had two consecutive chemical pregnancies at the Lister.  They were her 8 & 9 cycles and before that she never had anything ...not even at the ARGC (2 cycles).  She has enough faith in them to try again... so...  It may be worthwhile pming her.  She is v. helpful.  Also Dolly Dee did loads of cycles at Guys - around 5 and she may be able to help you with advice.  She subsequently cycled at the ARGC and is now doing DE.  

Juicy - hope all is well....

Sally - hope you have made a decision you are happy with.  Hope all is going well.  Acu is good for stress and generally for egg quality and implantation + circulation of blood to the womb.  I hope and   this is the cycle for you... 

Francie _ I was advised the same thing ... to do 6 ius due to fsh being 10.9 at the time... WAsted £5k for 4 ius before I switched... Wish I switched a lot sooner... They are just no good for people who are not text book cases... Mostly for people under 35 or v. good resonders over 35 who would have a high chance wherever they cycle frankly...

Had a lovely dinner tonight with dh as couldn't face going home after a long day at work ... teaching back to back all day...  Got AF this morning, so not menopause ...  Now need to make a decision whether to cycle one more time and only got a couple of hours for that...    Part of me wants to move on... And part of me wants to at least take fsh test and scan and make a decision based on that.  I have reconciled myself that I cannot have kids with own eggs anymore as am nearly 41 and a poor responder... So, this would be for closure really and in these economic circumstances 5k is a bit expensive for that... DH is so against donor eggs that he scares me...  I cannot on the other hand contemplate life without kids... So, pretty serious stuff...


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Serious stuff indeed Incon...it's a lot to think about and, if you'll pardon the cliche, there are no easy answers; all I can say is that with your determination it's hard to believe that you won't be pushing a pram in a year's time one way or the other, and that you will love that baby no matter where its first cellular structure originated from! Same for you Wiggle. I know it doesn't help right now but sometimes it's heartening to try to keep hold of the big picture.

Thanks for the info about UCH Francie...how frustrating for you! That sounds equivalent to my feelings of frustration that neither the LWC nor Create insisted I have a hysto or any exploratory stuff. I could be about twelve grand richer by now and maybe with child! Pleased you've got back on the horse anyway. 

Thanks for your encouragement Juicy! You're right, she's called Erika. I was there today and despite their new Raynes Park premises being even pokier than the previous one, (and despite my scan being 45 minutes late) I have to say the vibe is much better. I really like Frieda especially and Geeta seems to finally be calling me by name (when I saw her the other day she seemed to have mistaken me for someone else; said 'oh hello, I've been meaning to come to your yoga class!")

My follicles have grown quite a bit - the largest two are 17 mm, so egg collection is on Monday. I don't think I've said this but I'm definitely going for ICSI - Dr. Feinman says that in the states, they do ICSI with frozen sperm no matter what and he thinks it will increase my chances. LFC seem to support this. Geeta would prefer me to do IVF but I'm overruling her on this one.

One stupid question though...I'm taking my HcG injection tomorrow night, and my last Busserelin too. Frieda rang to tell me the amount of HcG to take (the whole lot) but I can't remember one thing, and I seemed not to have written it down properly; I don't take FSH on my last day, is that right? Meaning, that's it for the Gonal F pen? I should know this having done it twice already and I'm pretty sure that's the way but for some reason I've come over all confused...help!


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hello All - wow what a busy week fr everyone with lots of decisions to make

Sally - once you have taken HCG Dont take Gonal F - thats my understanding from my last cycle and I think thats the norm as you dont want to stop ovulation and then stimulate again

As for LFC doing Natural which cam up on an ealier post I have no idea I am afraid but I can forward the email addres sof their information dept if anyone wants to PM me their email address

Juicy - Hope the stims are still going ok you must be about ready for EC I guess

Incon - difficult decision to make hope you are plaeased with the decision you took

Wiggie - lets have a cuppa soon!

Francie - hello hope you are well

Claire - are you any further forward with who you want to go with

Right have to fly as am late for work and dont want to get done for speeding again!

I will pop back in later

Lorraine xx


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi all

Thanks for all your advice and support. If my next cycle at Guys doesn't work I will go and get a 2nd opinion both at the LFC and the Lister - as you all seem to be saying positive things about them and they both operate donor egg schemes (if that's the route we have to go down) - the LFC in conjunction with IVI Alicante.

Incon - I can understand why you want some closure with your own eggs..... can I ask why your DH is so against donor eggs? 

Sally - great follie count! Good luck with your EC on Mon. Yes as Lorraine says the day before your EC is your drug-free day, so make the most of it!

JUicy - you can still get 4 good eggs from 4 follies, so don't give up hope yet.....as they say it's quality not quantity....good luck with your scan today

Francie - good luck with your next cycle

CLaire P - how are you getting on with your decision-making?

Lorraine - will PM you

Have a lovely weekend everyone

Wiggie x


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sally - thx for your kind words...You seem to be reading me v. well somehow just saying the right stuff at the right time...Thx, it kind of helps loads... As you say I kind of resent the thought of being childless just bcs life got in the way and I didn't get to see the right fertility professionals at the right time to save what can be saved.  

Re buserelin - you are not supposed to have busereling and HCG shot on the same day.  If you stop with gonal f you should stop buserelin, but run it past Geeta.  I v. much hope that things work out for you with this cycle... Have you reduced the dosage as Geeta adviced.  

Sally, you were maybe right about not swithcing to LFC as I saw that they charge £1000 more if you do donor ICSI directly with them.  I hope you don't have to do that with Geeta as it's definitely a bit cheeky.  

Where are their new premises in Raynes Park then?  Can they be more pokey ?  That's almost hard to believe.  

Wiggie - I would chose the LIster over LFC maybe...as they have better stats if you do decide to switch.  They are experienced with high fsh ladies.  

Juicy - you can get 4 good eggs out of 4 follies.  I would consider 4 fantastic.  I can give you at least two examples where people have succeeded with that no.  One is WElshbird with 2 follies, aged 40 at the Create Health, the other is Kiwichick on high fsh forum (American site), she had 4 follies, 4 eggs aged 42.2 and got twins. .  Miranda - went to the Jinamed got 4 follies, 4 eggs and is due in May.  So there ...you see.... It is perfectly possible.  

Lorraine - how are you finding LFC so far? Just wandered.. Have you started treatment?  

I was told this morning that I cannot get bloods and scan at the LFC and cycle within the same month   but it would have to be next month...the reason being that they have to review the results before giving a go ahead. This is strange as in all previous clinics that was always decided on the day of bloods depending on the results, bcs the hormonal picture can change from month to month... So be warned girls... They never told me this during the consultation. 

It appears that one needs to spend 3 months before cycling... one for consultation, one for hormonal result followed by another consultation of £160 and then cycling proper... They never told me this when I consulted them back in Feb...otherwise I would have done the silly tests in March.    And this is certainly not the case at other clinics where I have been. See the ticker... .  They seem to hold patient's files somewhere else and need this time to get organised for cyling i.e. they order the files from the place where they are held and this wastes a whole month... So really a hormonal profile is just an indication and meaningless as it doesn't reflect what happens in the actual cycle...

It's really strange all this... Also a shame as I have got 2 wks off now starting from this weekend and it would be a perfect time for that last cycle...      .  Must say I was upset about all  this.  I wasn't sure to start with whether to do a cycle this morning but when told I couldn't do it, it felt altogether a different thing...  .  Feels almost like some kind of cosmic conspiracy...and definitely a bit Orwellian, too...  Why is life never easy?      What next I wonder?


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

thats weird Incon as I am a few tests short and LFC are going to start me and review the bloods the same day - I guess different circumstances but thats a bit silly as it only takes minutes to review bloods and make a decision - I would imagine anyway??
Hope to start in a few weeks whenever AF decides it would like to arrive

Hope everyone is having a lovely weekend

Lorraine x


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Lorraine - have you done fsh + other tests in the previous month... Did you have a follow up consultation after this?  I was told I need this.  Say had I done fsh in March and then had follow up then, I would have been able to do the cycle this month if fsh, estradiol and lh was ok, which would have been decided on the same day.  Is this what you have done?  The dr was adamant that this is a standard procedure and part of their policy ... It appears that it had nothing to do with my circumstances as he didn't have my file with him.  To be fair he tried to get the file but couldn't  ... We waited over 2 hrs to see if somehow they can get the file. Eventually it turned out that they couldn't.    So I was offered to do hormonal profile and scan and then proceed with the treatment next month, which was impossible for me as I have 2 wk break now and not next month...So, we didn't do it... We were a bit peeved off with bureaucracy of it all and the fact that they didn't explain this process to us during the consultation..


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

not in the previous month but from last November  - I am not surprised you are peeved with it all

Lorraine x


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

incon thanks for the examples   ...will be delighted if there are 4 eggs, i can tell you - keeping everything crossed. 
and   generally for you


Sally, hope you've had your trigger and feeling good - having mine sunday night for EC tuesday morning arrghghgh!!!  am bricking it !

Am sure you won't regret icsi decision, good for you for sticking to your guns.  LOL re geeta and the yoga class!!!
we could both be PUPO by the end of the week!

Wiggie, glad you sound a bit more sorted with a plan xx

Lorraine hope you got to work on time!  bet you are you hoping AF arrives soon.  Come on AF!


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

My pleasure Incon....you deserve some support after everything you've been through and I can't believe how LFC are messing  you about! What a drag! I'm confused though (my fault for not being on the site for ages..) I thought you were at the Lister now? Excuse my  lapses here. 

Spoke to Frieda yesterday who confirmed for me to take the busserilin as normal last night and not the  FSH. I took my HcG at eleven-thirty last night for nine-forty-five Monday morning.

Juicy, how funny to be missing each other by a day! Looks like we'll be doing the 2WW at nearly exactly the same time. Good luck to you and so true what Incon was saying about the follicles...

And just generally, take hope - my acupuncturist was telling me of the number of patients she's seen who have got pregnant with day 2 and 3 transfers and high FSH....

Wiggle,  (and Incon, though I think I've told you this already) if you do go the egg donation route, I have a couple of friends who have beautiful egg donation babies (or babies on the way) and I'm sure they would be pleased to talk to you. Both London Women's Clinic and the Care clinic in Manchester do eggshare, which is an awful lot cheaper; it comes down to an exchange between you and a woman who's trying to have IVF. Essentially you pay for her IVF and she gives you some of her eggs. I don't think it costs any more than a normal IVF...

Anyway, I'll be going in tomorrow - nil by mouth tonight! Off to the gym for my last time in a fortnight (do all of you stop exercising during your 2WW?)


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Good luck Sally - glad all is  sorted re injections... Wish you the very best of luck with the EC.  It's not advisable to exerces.. Thx for the suggestion.   

Juicy - chin up... All will be fine...    

Wiggie - wish you all thte best for the next cycle.. I def wouldn't give up if I were you not after one more cycle... But people are different...

I am a woman obsessed as you all gathered by now...
I am wandering what to do....  Have even thought of doing a natural cycle at the Create in these two wks  but feeling  resistance of going back to Geeta ...

How much is the natural cycle these days?


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Incon...a controlled natural cycle is £1890; controlled ICSI is £2190.

Had a bit of a scare today; couldn't exercise at all at the gym - just too tired - and then started feeling quite dizzy, a little tender and bloated in my stomach. Worried about the OHSS thing so went to bed for an hour. Now I feel better, maybe slightly hazy. Was worried anyway because I thought I may have taken a bit more HcG then I was told to - I'd spilled a bit so did two injections and maybe over-compensated, though not by very much. I have no fever. This couldn't be OHSS, could it? 

Generally speaking I've been feeling quite good, no side effects apart from a bit of bloating generally. Dr. Feinman says OHSS in a woman my age is fairly rare and given how low the doses have been (150  FSH, .5 busserelin) it's hard to imagine this could be that, isn't it?

I just keep fearing I'll go in tomorrow and they tell me my eggs are all gone or have already shot their wad or there aren't any living ones or something! Hope I'm being silly...


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Thx Sally....

I don't think you are being silly.  It's natural to feel like that.... It's a stressful time...  I am sure you'll be ok.  Make sure that you drink plenty of water until allowed just in case...  

Fingers crossed...


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks...am drinking a lot of water (so hard to tell how much of the bloating might be that too.)

I did an ovulation test today and I'm on surge...is that normal? (I keep worrying that I've made it all happen too soon somehow.)


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

I hope that it is.  I had strong ovulation pains for my ivf.  LH surge is 24 to 36 hrs before ovulation so should be ok.  Your eggies will be fine.  I am glad you decided to go for icsi as it's better with frozen sperm at least from the anecdotal evidence.  

How are you feeling?  Hope you ve got smb going with you tom not just picking you up.... 
All the best,

Is the price you mentioned inclusive of lfc charge.?  Or is it what Geeta charges + LFC charge on top.  It is I think a desperate measure if I go for it.  I may take you on the offer to talk to your friends later.  dH is not v. helpful and is v. depressed.  He has mentioned now donor eggs for the first time seriously...  That's realistically probably the only option... V. tense atmosphere in our house...


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Happy to put you in touch with  my friends...one had her baby through London Women's Clinic and the other went to the States (to Dr. Feinman in fact, who did my hysteroscopies.)

That price is inclusive of LFC - the whole lot. Do let me know how you get on!

And good to know you had ovulation pains before IVF. I've been paranoid about possibly taking a little too much HcG, that that could have triggered an early ovulation. Spoke to a friend who's quite knowledgable about this stuff (she works at Kings) and she says it's highly unlikely, that there must be more of a margin for error..(eg that people often lose a bit in air bubbles or inject too much etc.)


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Sally thinking of you today, you're probably done now and on your way home - hope all went well, and eggs were all still there

Having the same ov twinges myself today and panicking - I can't afford to lose any of my potential 3/4 !!  It is stressful and as Incon says, they must know that it will be ok...I must trust them...just hard not to go a bit mental with worry!

Incon the £1890 includes LFC's fee of £750 whcih is v good value considering they do the hard parts (EC, and ET) and for the £1100 odd to Create, I got two scans!  I also had to pay for 4 nights of gonal f and cetrotide, and the trigger, which came to £400.  

sorry it's still tense in your house.  did you have a counselling session - hope it was useful if so  

Sally i didn't do any exercise on 2ww last time other than walked to work one day (3 miles) and regretted it afterwards - it felt a bit high impact!  I might do a gentle row on my rowing machine this time, only on the second week though.  It may all be pointless to rest but it feels right to give the embie a quiet time as it has been through a bit of trauma, so situation is different to a natural conception.

also re your earlier qu, I had hypnosis last week and enjoyed it - it helped until I got the poor responder confirmation !  though after one bad day i've been ok and have listened to the cd she made for me and found it relaxing

fingers crossed for some magic to be happening in the lab for you today!  x


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Good luck SAlly and Juicy....


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Sally, I hope all went well today with EC and that there's a little bit of magic going on in the lab.  

Juicy, just sent you a long PM.  Didn't realise your EC was so soon!  Good luck for Tuesday.   

Inc, I'm so, so sorry you're having such a tough time.  I don't want to give advice but after all you've been through with Geeta is it really a good idea to think about going back?  IVF is SOOOO stressful and horrible at the best of times, but surely you'd be even more on edge with Geeta after what happened last time.

Wiggie, Lorraine, hello. 

xxx


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

it's my last go with own eggs and I don't know if Iwant to miss two wks EAster hols without doing anything.  I still haven't made a def decision .... Turmoil continues....


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

How weird....I thought I sent a message an hour and a half ago but it hasn't turned up here.

Thanks Incon, Francie and Juicy! I am indeed home now....Despite the anesthasist having to jab me three times to get the vein (this happens to me sometimes - I have notoriously elusive veins) things went well. I produced thirteen eggs and of course just waiting now to see if any have fertilized.

Good luck Juicy!! I'll be thinking of you tomorrow.

(By the way, has anyone met Danny from the lab at LFC? He's cute, isn't he? Makes the whole experience that much more pleasant)


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Well-done Sally....  Fingers crossed for fertilisation.  You are indeed a super chick !  If I could have just half of your crop would be the happiest woman in the world....

Decisions, decisions... I should probably just give up and sort out a donor thing... and save £2.5 in the process... INdeed, that's how much donations are in the Czech Rep.


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks Incon! I suppose tomorrow will tell. 

Apparently there's a great place for egg donation in the Ukraine too...heard good things about it. As I said, a friend of mine is doing eggshare here, which should work out cheaper for her though there is a waiting list. (Though of course with egg donation, age isn't so much of an issue; another friend of mine who is peri-menopausal at 45 is now pregnant with twin boys, again donor eggs.)


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Would you do a natural cycle in my place? Need to have a scan tom if i am doing it and am agonising whether I should give it a miss, try to heal and move on... as chances are so low and I 'd be probably just wasting my money...

Not too keen on Ukraine...Chernobyl and all that.... .  Am in the Czech rep on wl.  Treatment in August.


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

I'd be tempted to do a natural cycle just out of impatience, but if the odds are that low, I probably wouldn't. 

But I'm confused about what happened with the Lister? I thought they specialized in tough cases or high FSH levels?


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

I just didn't have the guts to go on the day to have a consultation .  so I xled it... Thought I was too late for them and just thought of doing an lfc low stimm cycle as I was familiar with the clinic and it didn't seem scary, but now that's buggered, too.  

Even on a stimmed cycle I never get more than 3 eggs, so see how lucky you are...  On the last one with Geeta I had two follies on 150 gonal but no eggs... so the hope of this working is zilch... It's probably just a closure thing to say that I have done everything... This is somewhat expensive, though as I have already spent 18 k so far where my chances were not so good anyway...


Are you going for blasts this time, too...  Fingers crossed for super fertilisation... Are you doing icsi as planned?


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Yes, doing ICSI. Was torn about it and didn't enjoy parting with the extra seven hundred and fifty quid but  bit the bullet in the end and just did it. 

I won't know about blasts till tomorrow....(and maybe not even then...when do they know again? It's messing up my work schedule big time). If they do think I'll get blasts, I'll go for them.

I suppose if I were you (easy to say I know) I might try one more cycle with your own eggs -maybe at the Lister - and then go the donor egg route?


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sally - you will know about the blasts only on day 3 .  

I seem to be missing my chance with the LIster somehow... I suspect it's too late for me...  Workwise I was hoping to use 2 wk EAster break as impossible to cycle with two part-time jobs at two different colleges.  WAy too stressful.  Also the money side is  6 k versus 2.4.  

Don't know....  Still thinking...

Thx for the input, though... Never thought it's so hard to part with own eggs.  Interestingly the Create called methis morning about the scan and I received two subsequent messages about the app.  

Here is      for super fertilisation for you... How are you feeling? Hope you are not feeling sore ....


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Quite right about the blasts, thanks for reminding me.

I feel okay, though am ravenously hungry - been eating all day, stuffing my face!! Not sure what that's about. 

Create does feel a bit more organized to me than they used to. I really like Frieda a lot!

Good luck with whatever you decide...


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

hey Sally -   on the hunger - must be a good sign, your appetite coming back after the stimms and the sedation or perhaps just stimulated generally by the hunky embryologist!  oh dear am i showing my age using the word hunky but he is indeed rather phwoooarr.  and so NICE too, I thanked him double for being so charming but esp for picking up phone v quickly and sounding genuinely pleased to give us good news

5 eggs pour moi today, one immature but 4 is cool - in the context of my poor response anyway !  i felt dire yesterday though so don't know you must have felt with four times as many follicles!

facilities at Lister v nice, I got my own room which i wasn't expecting - don't know why really!  Was well looked after other than they didn't give me a voltarol suppository because I'm asthmatic - even though I've had 2 of them in the past 5 mnths with no probs??  then the nurse forgot to bring me something else and so i had just had a paracetamol for the first 2 hours after - NOT pleasant!  doc said pain would be worse because they did a bit more digging around to get all the eggs that were there so v worthwhile pain !

Hope ICSI went well and you get to blast - it is hard with work isn't it, i don't want to go into too much detail with people about why the days are hard to predict but it does get difficult!!

Francie, Lorraine, Wiggie - lots of love.  Incon - replied on PR thread, sympathies re your cyst...this run of bad luck is GOING to come to an end soon!


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Well-done Juicy...    

Sally - hope it's good news for you today..   

I think I have hit/gone through some kind of pain barrier today... Sth that I have never experienced before...  V. strange to  come out the other end... Had a meal in Weatherspoons with half a pint... Haven't done it for ages... I am moving onto less travelled roads, methinks....


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Thanks Incon.  I think it is so therapeutic to have made a decision to cycle, even though your effort has been frustrated.  You felt strong enough to make a decision and progress it - it's given you some control back and some confidence I hope.  Well done, it must be a huge relief to do something 'normal'

hope this is the start of a good stretch of hopefulness for you.  It must have been a huge blow at ARGC to sink the money in and not get a result and have all the hassles with Create, and cysts, but bad luck doesn't mean you are destined not to be a mother - I really hope today means you might have turned a corner ...perhaps one more go with your own eggs?  

hope I'm not getting carried away....!!


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Funnily enough it was Frieda who ruled out cycling with a cyst as she said that the baseline needs to be nice and clear and Geeta decided back in Jan that it was ok to cycle with the cyst...    Makes one think!


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

That's weird....I thought I'd sent a message hours ago but it didn't turn up here!

Glad it went well for you today Juicy. I thought you were with LFC as well? I'm wondering who this
embryologist is you're talking about...I was referring to Danny at LFC but is there an equally tasty one at Lister? Sorry to be so crass.

Incon, sounds like you've turned a corner...must have been frustrating for Freida and Geeta to say such different things...

Twelve of my eggs survived from yesterday and seven fertilized. Obviously I won't know till Thursday whether they're doing a day three transfer or going for blast....


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sally - I bet you are pleased to have gone for icsi now...  7 out of 12 is good...Not sure what would have happened with ivf, but maybe you wouldn't have got as many.  I think you have good 7 good ones to be taken to blasts... What was the fertilisation rate in the past with ivf?  How does it compare? 
Willing your embies to go on growing... I think you will make it to blasts...  

Juicy - good luck.... Great to have your own room, eh... At the ARGC you wake up with about 7-8 people around you on trolleys... So no privacy whatsoever... DH also not allowed in... Nice to have a little bit of pampering that I hear the LIster provides... Will always regret not having gone to them at the beginning of my treatment i/o uch.  Haven't heard a bad thing about them yet.. 

RE Frieda vs Geeta... One would have thought that the director of the clinic would be inclined to be more cautious than a nurse, eh?  And more knowledgeable for that matter... 

I am pleased I went for a scan as I was struggling so much and nearly didn't go because of my past experienes at the Create.  I was hesitating and struggling all the way to the clinic and even there I thought I couldn't go through it.  I didn't want to waste my Easter break, however, and I knew deep down that this may as well be my goodbuy to own eggs... So I would have regretted not going...It's better to know that I didn't proceed bcs of the cyst rather than my inability to face it.  The odds were so low with the natural cycle anyway.... Finding out that there was a cyst was almost a relief...

Also wanted to say... Frieda is really nice..Shame she wasn't there a few months earlier... Would have made a hell of a difference to many people including myself...What a contrast to Lee!  And as you say Sally, they seem to be a bit more organised...  They must have lost a lot of clients I suspect.

I don't know whether I have turned the corner... I need to recuperate now, take stock and see where to go next... I am not sure whether I can face yet another clinic and a consultation and one more cycle with the odds stacked against me as they are whilst juggling work at the same time ...  I


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Sally just to clarify, I had my natural cycle with Create last month so had EC and ET at LFC - Celine de Graaf did the collection and then Pieter did ET and that's when I met the embryologist!!  most disconcerting to have him coming in all handsome and then waving our embryo at me in the legs akimbo position !

seems like maaaany moons ago, not 3 and a half weeks.....I already had the appt at Lister to go to (on incon's advice!!) because of FSH issues, otherwise I would have had a cycle with Geeta on 300 gonal f.  am now wondering how that would have gone, since only one of my 4 eggs fertilised....so this cycle has cost twice as much, for another single embryo transfer, and I reckon the drugs have not done my eggs any favours.  eg one follicle went off really early and had to be kept at 20 mm for nearly a week...I was told today that one of the eggs was a giant, twice the size of normal, so could it be that one?  

so ET tomorrow but today I really don't feel very positive about it 

incon, i can't believe you don't get own room and access to DH at the ARGC!!  what a bummer....dh and i were shattered yesterday and he was able to get on the bed with me and we kind of napped and watched a film until doc came round 

however i have to say, we felt just as well looked after last month, i liked the atmosphere at LFC so much and the staff were all lovely.  I am now cooking up a plan to ask either Geeta (or LondonFC directly) to do me a ££ deal on 6 natural cycles and just plough on with them (!!)

Sally great fertilisation for you, sounds like you have a great chance of going to blasts.  i'm dead chuffed for you


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Actually Incon; my fertilization rate with IVF was as good or slightly better; eight out of twelve I seem to recall, or maybe it was seven...it's all a blur now. Dr. Feinman made such a strong case for ICSI with frozen sperm and he's been great with me so far so I thought I'd go for it. Glad you had a positive-ish experience with Freida; totally understand your need to take some stock of your options before moving forward!

RE the Lister; I have to say, just to be fair, that two friends of mine weren't happy with them and went elsewhere. My acupuncturist was saying that different clinics are great for different kinds of patients so I expect there are always some unhappy people...likewise I know someone who thinks ARGC are 'crooks.' (I'm not saying I think that...I honestly hear such mixed things, people love them or hate them it seems)

Good luck to you Juicy, and so pleased your experience has been pleasant so far. Why don't you feel positive about ET? It seems you're doing well...

I need some advice here; I'm ringing tomorrow morning to find out if it's a day three transfer or if they're going to hold out for blasts. I have a provisional appointment set up for ET at eleven-thirty, acupuncture before and after. I have some clients booked here in the evening between four and eight-thirty. I had planned to cancel them if I have the ET, but do you think this is necessary? My work is very sedentary, the clients come right to my home, and a couple of them are very vulnerable indeed right now, and rescheduling could be tricky. Do you guys go straight to bed after embryo transfer? It seems a strange thing to do when you're feeling quite normal...

Would be very interested to know. Also, if I don't make it to blast and they do do a day three transfer, are my chances of implantation much less?

These are the opinions of the member not FF or its associates


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sally - I'd say that there is no need for cancellations. You won't be moving about and it may take your mind off things...  I suspect you will have a blasto transfer.... Implantation rates are better than with day 3 as embies are meant to be in uterus on day 5 and in fallopian tubes on day 3, so they are where they should be naturally.  Transfers on day 3 are therefore deemed to be somewhat less successful... There are different theories here of course.... Some experts think that it's better for embryos to be in their natural environment rather than in the petri dish hence earlier transfers...

I think you had blasto transfers before and 7 embryos are a good number and you are not likely to have day 3 with those kind of numbers...Are you doing PGD? 
I have seen that the donor ivf is £500k more expensive at the LFC than Geeta, so you have saved some money there...

Juicy - sometimes it's good to have the experience with both so you avoid what ifs I guess...  You seemed to have had a dominant follie all along and that's what happens if this is the case.  One follicle takes all the meds and the others never have a chance to catch up....Hence, I didn't cycle in February when I had this...Should have done controlled natural then, but I felt a bit roughly treated so didn't proceed. 

The ARGC always aspirates the dominant follie to allow others to grow at the same rate... This is not an option for poor responders, however, for obvious reasons.

Do I understand you right that you had a single embie transfer at the LIster.    The only doubt i had with natural cycles is that there is always a danger that the egg might not be caught or will be stuck to the follie wall or that they lose the egg... If it was a guaranteed thing than it would be an altogether different ball game...  The odds are so low compared to even a mildly stimmed cycle...so, I was always inclined to have some stimms rather than doing the natural cycle... And the price was affordable before as opposed to what it is now...  It's always worthwile playing the odds for two follies as opposed just one lonely follie and you can't spoil the quality with min stimms... There is always a chance that you may end up with one follie, however...

Let's hope your embie sticks though...   

Overall, I would say I like the idea of low stimm approach hence I chose to go to the Create in the first place... I think that there should be more clinics offering that kind of service and at more competitive prices... One  just has to arm oneself with info and not proceed with anything that looks dodgy i.e. a cyst, a dominant follicle if you are stimmed as you end up with just one egg...  

I would agree with waht Sally is saying about the ARGC. People either love them or hate them.  I think that they are charging massive prices and I don't think it's entirely justified, but then when people succeed especially if they were unsuccessful elsewhere they just consider Taranissi a semi-god

Good luck to both of you...


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi Sally

Great news re: your embies. I felt fine on the day of my transfer and actually it was hard to stay rested - so I think if you are relaxed and sedentary it is fine to see your clients in the evening. But you must go with what you feel comfortable with.

Juicy - sorry to heart abourt your fertilisation rates, but remember that if you have one good quality embie  then it can be all it takes. Good luck for tomorrow

Incon - I think I must have missed something, did you go for a consult in the end? Whatever you decide I hope it works out for you....

Hi to everyone else

Wiggie x


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks Wiggle and Incon...a lot to think about. I do feel very nervous that I won't make it to blast this time (three times seems too much to ask for) silly as there's nothing as I can do about it anyway. I think I will take your advice and see my clients...I always feel fine about ET and as I said, all I have to do with clients is sit there basically. I'm not doing PGD, no. 

Anyway Incon, I home time will tell and that you will find the best way forward for you...

How are you feeling, Wiggle?

X


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sally - you will make it... 7 is a great number and even if you lose 2 by tomorrow they will still go to blast with 4or 5 if they look equally good...  Are you prepared for  twins or triplets?  


I have got about 6 wks I think to confirm about my donor treatment in August I think...They will probably want to know in June if I am cycling , so I haven't got that much time to think things through and have a break and wl are huge... I think I would be comfortable if I had donor sperm from a known donor like you are doing ... but it would be a hell of a difference to have my bio child tbh... 

Wigle -  fingers crossed for your next cycle...


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks Incon...the guy at the clinic was non-committal about my chances...

So you have six weeks to decide for which clinic? I wasn't sure where you were thinking of for donor eggs...once again, let me know if you want me to put you in touch with  my friends.

Twins would be a handful but exciting as well...triplets, aaagh! What are the odds of that though?

Hope you're keeping well Juicy and Wiggle...


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Thanks for good wishes - good to hear from you Wiggie.  Hope our single embie takes, i really do...but let's just say other options will be being discussed heavily in meantime.  

Good luck for ET tomorrow Sally, I'm in at 12.30 after acu - will be resting for two days afterwards but I'm sure you are fine doing your client sessions.  I had saved holiday for this tx so not working and it's a relief but it's only physical exertion I'm trying to avoid rather than mental ! Last month ET was friday afternoon so that made it easy - just left work early, then stayed in bed all weekend!


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Fingers crossed for the twinnies then...  Am wled in the Czech REp for beginning of August,but I think they would be asking me for some kind of commitment by June ie money wise.  It's a huge step, though ....

Wigie - good luck! 

Juicy - keeping fngers crossed...

I am hoping to book a cheap flight and go and visit a friend in Tenerife for a week... I just want to get away from IF for now...


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Juicy, good luck today.  Have PMed you.

Sally, hope all goes well today also.  Or if you get a call to delay, all the better.

Inc, that holiday sounds like a great idea.

Wiggie, hi there!

I start stimms tomorrow.  300 menopur.  Really hope I get a few follies.  Fingers crossed.

xxx


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Good luck, Francie!

And Incon, if there's anyone who deserves a holiday it's you! It can be so hard to remember that there's more to life outside of all this, because it's so consuming....hope you have a chance to recover and begin to feel fit and strong again. 

Good luck today Juicy!

I rang this morning and they will aim to go for blasts on Saturday....Among other things, that works out well work-wise and I can take the entire weekend just to chill. 

How are you doing Wiggle?


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

SAlly - fantastic!  Told you so....   .    I think we are onto twinnies now...
Lots of luck and fingers crossed.  By the time I am back you'll be on 2ww...

Wigie - fingers crossed for you, too.  I hope you don't need to do donor eggs....  Let's hope this cycle is the one...

Juicy - hope you are feeling ok...

Lorraine Lac... hope you are doing ok, too....

Thx for good wishes...

Booked my ticket.. V. expensive at this short notice but I just needed to get away... Just couldn't stay on my own at home whilst dh working... It will be tough on him staying on his own and working I guess...  
Now need to go and start getting ready/packing...

I hope I will feel a bit better when I come back...  This is the toughest challenge I have ever faced in my life...And I don't know whether I am up to it ....


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks Incon, and try to enjoy your holiday....let your hair down, eat delicious food, have a few drinks, enjoy the sunshine and your friends and, if possible, try to give yourself a mental break from all of this as well! The more refreshed and rejuvenated you are when you come back, the better advised you'll be to move forward. 

X


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi all

Sally - good luck with your ET, how many blastos do they normally transfer?

Incon - a getaway sounds like a great idea, hope you have a lovely time

Everyone - did you see the Guardian article today about milder IVF? See link below:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/apr/10/medicalresearch.health1

Doesn't mention Geeta though!

Am due to start my next cycle in early May, will keep you posted....

Wiggie x

/links


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

They transferred three blasts both of the times before, but to think that'll happen again seems too good to be true....I must try to be positive (I've just been moaning on another thread about how superstitious I am...I automatically think that if I anticipate negatively, it's more likely to work. Absurd, isn't it?)

Just had a look at that article...thanks Wiggle!

How are you doing, Juicy?


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Seen the article....  Shame i didn't know about hte whole thing earlier... Such is life...

Sally - paradoxical intention,... Viktor Frankl... IN search for meaning...  I think he advocates sth along those lines... If you try to be negative you won't succeed or if you try hard to stummer, you cannot do it...  

Still haven't packed.... Grrr.. Went out with a mate for  a few drinks... Had a whole pint  ....


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

I love "Man's Search for Meaning!!" I wrote an essay on it years ago. How amazing that even at Aushwitz, this man could find such profound meaning in his life. But I can't remember what Frankl would advocate now -- should I cling to my superstitious negativity to protect myself? Surely  not! Existentially I suppose I have no choice but to grapple with the unknown but I'm trying something new...visualizations, trying to think that just maybe it WILL happen...


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi Lovely Ladies

Wow loads going on on the thread over the last week

Juicy - wasnt quite sure but I assume you have had ET again - hope so and look forward to a good result

Incon - I would love to go to Czech republic but again got a little confused is it partly for fert reasons or pure holiday?

Sally - think I am up to speed - all exciting stuff, good luck for ET

Francie - hope the stimming is proving ok for you

Claire - are you still deciding??

Wiggie - read and liked the article.  SPeak tomorrow - apologies for the eratic PMing earlier I had forwarded (or so I thought) the wrong info to Armi and Perky but luckily they seemed to know what was happening!!! 

I am hoping AF will arrive next week so we can get going.  Had cranial therapy this week which was an amazing experience - I cant wait until my next session.

Take care 

Lorraine xx


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Ooh Lorraine how exciting - cranial therapy - tell us more!  what bought that on?  I've been thinking about having it because I've got nasal polyps (the glamour!!).  Hope it is helpful!!

Incon sorry if i've missed you but Bon Voyage and I'm so envious of your holiday - brilliant idea to get away!  Sunshine and a bit of relaxation will make everything seem infinitely more copeable-with !!

Wiggie thanks for posting that link.  The conference to which that paper was being addressed is being run by ISMAAR which  Geeta is President of, and Stuart Campbell is involved too.  (there were brochures about it in the Create waiting room while I was there!).  Very interesting and from my reading of the boards, seems to tally with what some here have said re their protocol and how it affected their egg quality etc etc.

Sally hope you are resting and feeling positive in preparation for receipt of your blasts!  I have been doing positive visualisations because I was afraid my negativity would become self fulfilling...I especially feared this because I have had a feeling for many many years that I would struggle to conceive and if i've already made one nightmare a reality, I don't want to double up by talking myself out of IVF succeeding too.

I think it's worked because even if this tx fails, i feel more positive about that now (I will handle it, the next one might work) than i would have done if I was just proving myself right ('I knew it wouldn't work, it's never going to happen for me' etc etc

er does any of that make sense      

anyway feeling good so far tucked away at home and once monday comes, i've only really got a week and a day to get through before I can test!


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

That's great advice Juicy, and that's also what I've been worried about; that my negative thinking, while based partly on some stupid ploy to make the opposite happen (eg if I hope too much it won't happen, if I dread the worst it will) probably does the opposite. So I'm trying to stay positive, even fearing while I do that I'll jinx it...(ie that there'll be no embyros tomorrow, I'll be punished in some way.) I suppose it's partly the way we try to protect ourselves from disappointment, but it doesn't work! We're still just as disappointed no matter how we anticipate it!

Glad you're feeling good. I guess our 2ww is virtually identical!


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

HIya Juicy - can pm you the lady I saw - she is a stone throw from Create in Raynes park

Best wishes to everyone for this weekend, stay happy and positive

Lorraine x


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Embryo transfer today; I leave soon for acupuncture and then the LFC.

Wish me luck!!!

S


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Good luck Sally.   I know so well the negative  strategy.  Like we don't want to make the big guy in sky angry at our optimisim and punish us.  What a load of [email protected]!  Why do we do it?  Any you're also right that he negativity doesn't work as a protection against disappointment.  I couldn't have been more disappointed when my previous tx failed even if I'd been knitting booties.

Juicy,  .  I PMed you.

Lorraine, hope that AF arrives on time.

Wiggie, hi!

As for me, I've got a cold.  Typical!  All that effort in staying healthy and as soon as I start stims I get a cold.  I'm feeling pretty negative but I guess it's that false negativity described above.  My first scans on Friday.  I'm convinced they'll be no decent follies. I guess our last IVF experience of failed fert really knocked the wind out of my IVF sails.

Have a good weekend everybody!

xxxx


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

You're spot on, Francie.....even if you don't believe in that 'big guy in the sky,' you still think he's gonna punish you for flying too close to the sun! So silly. Listen, don't worry about a cold....I really don't think that's going to have too much of an impact, as much of a drag as it is. 

I just had my embryo transfer...three blastocysts, or rather two full blasts and the third at a more beginning stage of blast. He said the embyros were grade B which he seemed to feel was pretty good, though in terms of numbers there were 1, 3, and 4 (six being the absolute best but I think that's rare...) Trying not to fret on such as things as the third 'not quite there' blast; he basically said that it was quite like the past two times.  

There's only one remaining embryo which could possibly make it to freezing which I'll check tomorrow, but I've never had any frosties so far....


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Sally - Wishing you a restful and postivive 2 WW

Lorraine xx


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Well done Sally.  Fingers crossed that this is the one!  

xxx


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks Lorraine and Francie!

It's hell this 2WW, isn't it? You're looking at every twinge and cramp for signs of something! How are you two doing?


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hang in there Sally - rooting for you all the way over the next 2 weeks  

Lorraine x


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi Sally - congrats on getting to blastos and being PUPO!  Fun, isn't it!!

Glad all went smoothly - third time lucky I hope    

I'm back at work today boo hisss and wishing I had taken it easier over the weekend as am shattered.  I didn't do anything strenuous, just standing up a fair bit at home, cooking and did a bit of ironing and tidying - my legs felt really puffy.  

ah who am I kidding, I look puffy everywhere!  my sis said it was great that my stomach 'looked really bloated' - and that's the least of it!

She is a midwife and delivered IVF twins on Thursday night after my ET so felt it was a sign for me arrghh hope so!

Have been analysing the twinges today - had a couple of tiny AF like pains - made the mistake of mentioning it to dh, he's worse than me - a nervous wreck!

Hi Francie, Lorraine...bumped into you both elsewhere today   

    for us all


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Who needs enemies when your sisrers say you looked bloated  

Hope you are doing OK Juiy and I am rooting for you too all the way  

Lorraine x


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Yes me too - good luck Sally & Juicy

Wiggie x


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks everyone....2ww driving me crazy! I keep thinking of that clinic in Harley Street where I went to have my last two negative blood tests, and- again the superstitious thing - I can't imagine going there and coming out with a good result! 

Definitely getting out of the house tomorrow though...the cabin fever isn't helping. It's all right to start going out now, isn't it? (ET was Saturday.)


----------



## ClaireP (Feb 18, 2005)

Hi girls,

Just thought I would pop on to wish Juicy and Sally good luck on your 2ww, it's the most horrendous time! I've always said I would rather endure ec and et twice over then wait around going nuts about whether you are pg or not!!

Af pains can sometimes be a good thing - personally I didn't get any on my last go and it was a negative, also trapped wind is often a good sign!  I am also so superstitious like everytime I sneakily used a pregnancy test before my blood test - i'd have to swap brands the next time if it gave me a negative! I used to hate First Response Early for that reason! When I finally got pg with my son, I was so used to getting negatives that I used an out of date clinic test so I could con myself if it was negative that it actually might be positive! so when I saw a very faded pink line I wasn't sure if it was faulty so that will teach me!

Are you at Create Sally?  well done on your blastocysts... did you get any to freeze? what dose of stimms were you on etc.

Lorraine - I still haven't decided whether to try again at ARGC or go to Create.  I am keeping my appt with both anyway  at end of May--- well ARGC one is a follow up so it's free (about the only thing that is!!!! and how laughable that you only get 30 mins!).  ARGC is just so expensive and given the fact I seem to be a poor responder now, it's a lot of money to chuck at a cycle.  If I do opt for Create, I think I am favouring a low dose stimm cycle rather than a natural just so I have more chance etc, however I'm not sure whether I should ignore my immune issues or try and get treated for them as well as I know Create don't support immune issues... does anyone know if Geeta's opinion is just the fact she doesn't believe in it or it's just not an area she specialises in?

anyway good luck to you all

Claire x


----------



## dimsum (Apr 16, 2008)

Hello all,

I'm new here but have been lurking around for a while   As a poor responder I've started thinking about Natural IVF. Can anyway tell me where they have had this and what the experience was like?

Thanks


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks Claire, and you made me laugh about the pregnancy tests...that is exactly the kind of thing I do. 

RE clinics; I haven't been to ARGC but I know people who have (in fact the ones I know have not succeeded, and they paid a pretty penny not to succeed.) I don't know where Geeta is on immunity issues, but I can tell you exactly my overall feeling about Create. Overall, I like them, because they've done well for me from an ovarian perspective, they have lovely nurses (Frieda, the new nurse, is great!) they charge less than most of the others (and when they split from LFC they'll charge a lot less still) and as disorganized as she can be, I do like Geeta. Because I've been on low stim I've had virtually no side effects and I like that too. This isn't to say they are perfect; I wish they'd urged me to have a hysteroscopy before wasting all this time and money (though in fairness, very few clinics in Britain do seem to urge enough of that stuff! I had the same thing with London Women's Clinic) But I certainly think it's worth meeting them. 

As I just said on another thread, I'm feeling really sad today; it's feels nearly hormonal, like a pre-menstrual thing, which obviously doesn't seem promising, though having said that it might be a bit soon to be pre-menstrual....(Test date Monday.) I don't know. Just feel worried; been so trying to keep the morale up and now it just seems impossible to believe that it could work. I actually thought I felt live embryos inside me yesterday (absurd as that sounds) and now I can't feel them at all!

Welcome dimsum. The clinic that specializes in Natural IVF is called Create Health and they are the clinic I am with. They are based both in Harley Street and Raynes Park. However, without knowing your history, it seems that very few people go completely natural; usually they advocate some kind of low stim medication. Very few people seem to get pregnant just doing it naturally. 

How are you doing Juicy?


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

hi Sally, i'm good today thanks though I think I feel the same way you do today - as if the thought of this ever working was just a total dream...not very hopeful

i have been very hormonal (mood swinger!) for the last few days but today I feel normal again so who know's what's going on but i suspect - not much!

still, the torture of the 2ww is bound to throw up moments like these - all we can do is try and ride them out and keep the faith!  You have had blastocysts so you know they were strong when given back to you and they do say third time lucky    

I have only had a single embryo each go so still only v low odds of success - I need luck and I don't feel i'm having much of that at the moment !!  

Are you going to wait for the official Day and have the blood test? I don't think I could stand the suspense - it took 4 hours to get the result last time so I was glad I already knew what it was!

Thanks Claire for the good wishes.


----------



## ManiH (Dec 13, 2007)

Hi

i dont post on here often but i just read sally and juicy's posts and i had to wish you both luck - fingers crossed for you both!           
ManiT


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

thanks Mani  

and wow!  well done on your weight loss, that's really impressive!    you must feel great.  I am going totally in the opposite direction and really depressed by it.  If not pg this time, am getting in some of that hoodia stuff that agestop sell as I've got a wedding to go to in May and can't go shopping like this!

take care


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Yes Mani how impressive! I'm very jealous.

Thanks Juicy for the sympathy...it's just so hard, isn't it? At least you are still quite young and this is only your second time, so perhaps it would help to take a wider view of things...even if you're not pregnant this time, you'll get there in the end. 

Conversely I am very worried about my age; okay I produce a lot of eggs but there's no guarantee the quality is good...I'm desperately hoping the reason they didn't take before but was because of the scar tissue on my uterus (since removed by hysteroscopies) because if it doesn't, it really could be the egg thing and I'm just not ready to think of donor eggs yet (I also can't afford it.)

To answer your question, I'm sure I will be tempted to test early...I might test Sunday.


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

ooh Sally thanks, i love your confidence in my age!  I really hope you're right but let's face it, I'll be 36 in July with AMH of 1.1 and high FSH so I doubt my eggs are top drawer.  

Still, I'm pretty hopeful there are one or two which could be magic ones - if only we had a crystal ball and knew how many goes it would take to find them! 

£££ is a huge issue for us too. we had to borrow some because we are not the type of people who have savings, only debts!  have already spent a frightening amount which I'd put in place (aka borrowed!) when I found out about tubal problems and thought two attempts, plus NHS go, would probably get a result.  Now I wish I had enough for another 8 or 9 tries...!  

I totally understand your anxiety re your eggs but really really hope your new improved uterus is the key to it all and you get  BFP this time    
is it not the case that three lots of blasts is a pretty good indicator of quality, you're not just producing good numbers of eggs but they're fertilising and strong enough to get to 5 days in an incubator?

snap re sunday....have got two clearblue digitals burning a hole in a drawer at home!


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

36 is nothing - what I wouldn't do to be 36! Well done for starting this all now; you still have time to spare and I really think you'll get there in the end. Excuse my ignorance, but what is AMH and how high is your FSH, if you don't mind me asking? Also, can you not get more treatment on the NHS?

RE  Clearblue on Sunday....is that not too early to try that one (as opposed to First Response?) What are the odds of it being accurate? 

I am terrified about Sunday in general...I run a group for single women who are doing IVF or IUI's and Sunday is our lunch...I can't bear the thought of having to get through it with a negative result, whereas on the other hand, I suppose they will at least identify...


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hiya

Sally - hang in there - PMT feelings are normal even when Pregnant I have been told and witnessed with many of my work colleagues!   I am rooting for you all the way and will say a prayer everynight

Same for you too Juicy

Lorraine xx


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

aww thanks Lorraine, that's really kind!    Have you got a month in mind for your next cycle?

Sally - the way I see your lunch...if you test and it's BFP - you can celebrate with people who are really cheering you on and understand the depth of your joy, and if it's BFN, well - it's still early so it won't necessarily be definitive - things could change monday morning!  

We have our next door neighbours for lunch - lovely couple though they announced they were pg the week I found out i needed ivf.  we'd been trying for ages when we went to their wedding and now they've almost got a baby and we're ...

AMH is anti-mullerian hormone - supposed to be a more accurate indicator of egg reserve than FSH.  Below 2 is very low fertility though am not freaking out about it as by the time I found that out, I had established I'm a poor responder which is the main thing I need to know for future cycles anyway.  

my FSH was 13.5 last November.  it's gone down to 7ish since then but it's your worst reading that's the benchmark

thanks re getting on with it - the one saving grace is indeed that I insisted on getting a referral when I hit 35, against the advice of all those people STILL saying 'it'll happen' 'have you tried acupuncture/reflexology/legs in the air/pre-seed lube' etc !!  It's a good point re NHS, they may well give me a second cycle and I'm looking into switching to Barts which is much nearer my office, if the waiting list isn't too long there.

I was going to ask how you felt physically but we probably shouldn't start down the twinge analysis route tonight  

You're probably in bed so I'm too late with these     but hope you sleep well !

wonder how Incon's getting on in the sun...


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Yes, thanks so much Lorraine! Prayers most welcome. 

So yes Juicy you should definitely push the NHS thing...I have a friend who's thirty-nine and she's had three goes on the NHS at Kings. 

Physically I feel okay...as I said yesterday and some of today felt a bit crampy, and also that hormonal sort of down feeling, also sugar cravings -- all of which I associate with getting my period but it feels a bit early to be getting premenstrual. So hard to know how much is the progesterone or recovering from the treatment itself or just nerves....this time of the 2WW is always the worst. Been trying to distract myself by doing fun cultural things (Royal Academy and theatre last night, both of which were great) but still just feeling sad and worried, like this could be my very last chance; if my uterus isn't to blame, it really could be the eggs and the whole age thing after all. 

How are you feeling? 

Very good advice about the lunch; I hope your lunch goes all right and it isn't too difficult for you. I feel really confident that at your age you will get there in the end in some way or another.

And by the way...why are you not using First Response sticks on Sunday? Is it because of the past associations?


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

oh I spoke to a mate last night who'd been to the RA yesterday and said it was wonderful!  they sound lovely distractions, and probably more successful than my job, which is simply frustrating me at the moment!

had a very disturbed night last night, my mind just wouldn't shut down...i definitely need to get my hypnosis cd out tonight

I think it was ClaireP who's supersitious about the HPT brands. I have no loyalty to any, I just have clearblue because I read on another thread that they were on special offer somewhere so I bought a few!  when I was ttc naturally i wasn't a pee stick maniac - with the endo, I always had plenty of notice that AF was on the way so there was no point

hence I'm quite new to it all - if you recommend first response, I'll try and track some of those down today , thanks!

with you on the sugar craving - have been hungry earlier than I would normally be too

good luck getting through today!


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hiya

Whats RA Juicy?  Poor you having restless nights, sometimes there is no rhyme or reason as to why but your mind just goes into overdrive - hope you have a good sleep tonight   not long to go now xx

Well I started cycling today and will be stimming with Puregon for the next few days which will be reviewed on Tuesday re dose

I was a little shocked to be given my first injection at the clinic today at lunchtime as I thought they always had to be  int he evenings but the nurses laughed and said thats just to make it easier for people to remember as most people arrive home from work at that time so my follies are already getting their dose of miracle grow for the day  

Cant wait as we have a lovely weekend as we are going to see Avenue Q tomorrow - probably good to do something different as I have been fairly grumpy towards DH the last few days.  hope he will forgive me !

Sally - how are you.  I am sending you and Juicy all my positivity 

take care

Lorraine x


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

thanks Lorraine that's really kind x

RA = Royal Academy, Sally went there yesterday on her cultural day (prev post).

Have a great time at Avenue Q, it sounds like a lot of fun and a change of scenery and a laugh will do you both good.  Are you off alcohol now that  you're stimming?  I don't know much about puregon but I hope it brings you luck.  They did tell me with the menopur that i could do it any time too, strange isn't it, it didn't feel right so I did it at about 8 every evening anyway

as for me I shall be     quietly at home !!


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

well dont   too much do a bit of   and   for DH instead !

I feel very weird suddenly cycling again - I should have had a glass of wine last night as a final treat but didnt get round to it  

ooh i am really bored this afternoon - dh wont come out the office as he is snowed under so i am havign to be quiet around the flat so he can get on - afternoon telly is also rubbish today even the channel 5 movie was pants! - I am officially a miserable cow  

Lorraine x


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Good luck Lorraine! Actually, the odd glass of wine won't hurt you while you're stimming. Some people (including this natural health guy I was going to for a while) actually says that the odd glass of red is in fact good for your blood, and Geeta says it's okay too. According to recent studies, caffeine is a far worse culprit...

Yes I totally recommend the Lucas Cranoch show at the Royal Academy. Go early to avoid the crowds and it's also worth doing the audio guide - it's really informative and will help to give you a better historical and cultural context for the work. He's an amazing painter. Saw the Man Ray at the Tate Modern last night but was slightly less impressed...in fact the best part of last night was a walloping helping of fish and chips with my mate at Master Superfish in Waterloo Road! (a great fish restaurant, very cheap and cheerful.) 

But cultural distractions aside, I'm doing my nut. It's so hard to keep those negative thoughts away...this just feels like a nightmare deja vu of the last time and the time before that....anticipating how it will feel when I open the packet, pee on the stick, see that cruel, evil, unforgiving single line....I just feel so sad and scared in advance and then I think well it must be bad news or else I'd feel more hopeful....I so wish I wasn't single right now, that I had a partner who could really share this with me! I do have a lot of great friends and the support I've had has been amazing, but to be with someone who feels exactly as I do, who would even share my devastation.. we could lick each other's wounds...

I'm so sorry to be so melodramatic - what a winge! But I just can't bear another one of those single lines.

Good luck with your stims, Lorraine! Juicy, I'm thinking of you, my parallel chick! How are you feeling today? (And by the way First Response isn't necessarily better, I don't think, but it does allow you to detect earlier...supposedly four days before your period is due, though bear in mind that that's only a 78% percent accuracy reading rather than a little later.)


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sally -      

Juicy - good luck    

Lorraine    

Francie     

Good luck girls... Am back from hols...  Am feeling a bit better but I know that the relief is only temporary...  Am tired of the whole positive thinking thing tbh... Why not be truthful about one's feelings...  Isn't it why this board exist in the first place....?


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hello Incon - yes I tihnk its perfectly reasonable to be exhausted of positivity.  Thats where you let others give you theirs for a while as it is very draining.
Glad you had a good holiday - I dont know if you found the same but when DH and I went to France after our last disappointment we had a great time away and I became very upset when we came back to reality and walked through the front door.
Take good care of yourself and let me give you some postiviity  

Lorraine x


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Morning ladies  - Incon, welcome back

Sally, you're right - First Response isn't any better as failed to give me two lines this morning...
That single line really is cruel and unforgiving isn't it.  I am extra disappointed because last month, I knew it hadn't worked and had no symptoms but this month, I have had cramps and a bit of spotting the past two days which isn't red so I wondered if it was perhaps some sign of implantation.  Maybe it was but even so, there's no hcg about today so that's that.  I'm sure that that result is accurate because I felt bloated and tired on Friday, but woke up yesterday back to normal.

but there wasn't even the vaguest hint of a second line

I just feel empty and sad wondering how many more times we might have to go through this and whether it will ever work.  Being pregnant feels so so far out of my reach just now

Really hope you've had better news and sorry there isn't someone there to share the experience with you  

Incon, have you made any decisions or feel that after the holiday, that might be on the cards soon?  I think you should re book your appt at the lister!


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Snap, Juicy.

Single line, big fat x&%#x negative. Am absolutely gutted...at least I thought that with these hysteroscopies, we'd removed the implantation problem; Dr. Feinman was virtually smug in the assumption that I'd get pregnant right after that.

I don't know what to do now. I am running out of money and want to do an IVF in the states (where they put back more embryos) but I can only do that if my folks pay for it, and this is all very hard and complicated for them too. 

And I just don't feel ready to give up on my own eggs yet, despite my age....oh god advice needed...I am so completely devastated.


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Sally and Juicy - dont know what to say except sorry and 

Lorraine x


----------



## ClaireP (Feb 18, 2005)

Sally and Juicy.... words fail me for how sorry I am.  I've been thinking of you since yesterday and have only just been able to log on.

That one line on the test stick as you said Juicy is so unforgiving....you almost feel that it's like rubbing salt in the wound and harsh reality is staring you in the face.

I had a bfn from one transfered day 3 embie at beginning of march and I am only starting to come out of the black hole i've been in and I already have a child.  You don't expect to feel like that but it's like you are living the whole infertility thing all over again.  All I can say is DONT GIVE UP!!!!  my son was the product of 5 attempts I found that if you tell yourself that you REFUSE TO BE CHILDLESS and get some angry determination it seems to help you through.

The simple fact is.... in your case Juicy is you had a reduced chance due to one transferred embie and but it doesn't mean you WONT get pg!!, all it means is that it's a numbers game and you just have to keep trying as the odds will turn up right next time or the one after that.  Your embie's are good quality so that is majorily important  - you have to consider this your first attempt at ivf and normally you can expect it to work on the 2nd or 3rd time.  Yes... we put all that emotional time effort and money and for what.... a big mean negative line... it is absolutely soul destroying and I don't think anyone understands the extent of despair and almost sense of panic infertility churns up in you unless you have been throught it yourself.  Sally - do you mind me asking how old you are?  the fact you got blastocysts is a testament to the quality of your embyros... I no doubt suspect it was implantation failure for you.  I know in the US they offer cgh screening which is far more advanced than pgd screening and you are guaranteed a succees rate of around 60% pregnancy if your embies have passed cgh screening. You can post on the Sher institute website and Dr Sher always responds and will offer a free tel consultation to talk about your issues.  If it is complicated with your parents, perhaps writing a heart felt email about how you feel as I am sure most don't really know what we go through, and let them know you will go to the ends of the earth to have a family so any financial support would be amazing even if it's a loan which shows how much you want to try again.

I have read a lot about ivf failures and the most common and frustrating reason is simply implantation failure, something we cannot control. internal messages and environment have to be so tip toe for the embie to want to implant at that particular time -  I had severe drilling pains on day 7 post et and I am convinced it was trying to implant as I didn't experience any other pains at all during the whole 2ww and this happened on my other failures as well.  

I think all you can do now is get through each day and time is honestly the only healer.... every day you will cry that little bit less and every day you will feel that incy bit less bleak, and start looking to the future again.

Keep brave

Thinking of you

Claire x


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sally & Juicy -        

Juicy - I hope you find the strength to recuperate and try again soon...  

Sally -Some clinics in Eastern Europe do more embryos with own eggs not just donor...ISIDA I read on the boards does 4.  

Also a clinic in India - Malpani clinic transfer more embies.  They have got a fab website. You can check it out.  The cost should be less significant than in the US.  Somebody on the boards, can't remember the user name has recently had treatment there and successful.  She expects quads at the mo, though...

On the other hand, I can see the attraction of the US if you can afford it...CGH has v. good rates of success, as Claire mentioned... Check out the SIRM clinic...I think this may be a good idea in your case as you get loads of embies.  Also you may feel more at home in the USA  than elsewhere...  Check the multiple cycles board as some people there have been successful on their 8th attempt.. I think Jake if I recall correctly...

Totally understand the reluctance to go the donor egg route.  I think you have still got a reasonable chance wth the nos you get...  I am still in denial when it comes to not being able to have my bio child...

Lorraine - the best of luck...   

Claire - good luck to you,, too...


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks so much for your support, Lorraine, Incon, and Claire.

In answer to your question, Claire....I am 43. I have done three IVF's and produced a good number of eggs (average 12-13) each time and had three blasts put back each time. Recently they found some scar tissue on my uterus which they removed via hysteroscopy; Dr. Feinman in L.A. thinks that may well have been the reason I haven't been implanting, at least before this last one.

Thanks Incon and everyone for suggestions, but I think if I go abroad it will be L.A. - first of all, my parents are there, and many friends. Secondly, I think I will go with Doctor Feinman whose success rates are good; he's also slightly cheaper with SIRM and I already have a relationship with him...he's the one who did my hysteroscopies (who insisted upon them to begin with.) He also helped a friend of mine who is now pregnant with twins, albeit donor egg ones. 

What I'll need to ask him is if he thinks it's worthwhile having another go with my own eggs...my suspicion is that he'll say yes. 

Thanks for info about CGH - will look in to that. 

How are you doing Juicy?


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sounds like a good plan Sally    .  I think also less stressful and cheaper if you can stay with your parents... The more support the better...  Don't see any reason why not try again with your nos of eggs.. I certainly would.  CGH may be what does the trick.  Also maybe a higher level of stimms so that you get  more eggs to choose from?  I know a lady who has succeeded at the ARGc at the same age.  Also a good responder ...had 21 eggs on full stimms and is now 5 months preggers....  Just received the news a couple of days ago...


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Juicy and Sally, just want to send you both loads of  virtual  . I am so, so sorry.  That single line is so awful.

You need wine, chocolate, comforting food, nice treats and lots of TLC. I find ranting against the unfairness of it all helps a bit too.  Don't put any pressure on yourself to make any decisions immediately but remember you still have lots of options.

If you want some virtual company ranting, crying or bouncing ideas around, remember, we're here for you. 

xxxxxxxx


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Sally....my neighbours stayed a while and by the time they left, I'd started bleeding proper so only just logged back on....have gone from sad for me to sad for you and now, as Francie anticipated, I'm really cross.....dammit that is SO unfair, what the hell does it take if not what you have done - three blastos, and a top notch uterus.   I'm so sorry but the others are right, if you can work the US then do it, perhaps Feinman has a bit of magic that he can bring, all you need is a bit of luck at the final hurdle.  
I'm really, really sorry  

stupid, stupid single lines

ClaireP thank you so much for thinking of us and for such a thoughtful and positive message.  You're right, in total I've had two embryos transferred in the past two months which equates to one normal go and we've been trying to think of it as a two year project, and we still have a lot of attempts left in us 

Lorraine thank you and keep thinking positive thoughts for yourself - hope the stimms are going ok xx

Incon thank you.  I agree with you on the Malpani website, it's really good isn't it, and lots of helpful info (if you can ignore the slightly disconcerting number of refs to God on a medical site!)


Francie, thanks so much ...as it happens I knocked up some millionaire's shortbread last night which has helped, as did a couple of glasses of wine at lunch.  Will be thinking of you tomorrow morning      

sleep well ladies


----------



## Sally2 (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks to ALL OF YOU for your support. 

Francie - you've got the right idea - been gorging on treats all day and even though it's midnight, I'm hitting the cookie dough ice cream for a 'nightcap.' 

And thanks for the info about your friend, Incon...it does give hope!

And thanks again Claire; again really  inspiring and really eloquent too. 

And most of all Juicy....god you're right...so unfair and just so devastating. There's nothing like it, honestly. I did have the good fortune to spend today with really caring and supportive people and I hope you've have the same....we deserve so much more than this! (Especially when you think of all the people who mindlessly, recklessly have children without even meaning to.) How is your partner taking it?

I hope that after a suitable rest and recovery period, you get back on that horse!

Love to you all and sweet dreams.


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi ladies

well, I'm glad today is over!  though mercifully, my email and phone were quiet and I have been hibernating in my office so it could have been worse.  Emailed my boss before I came in....massive hint, which he took for a change, not to mention it to my face!

Hope you've had a tolerable day Sally, though I guess your work isn't too compatible with hiding away and avoiding people!  Have you told Geeta yet?  

Thanks for asking about my husband.  He's sad, but he's doing ok.  We both had a good cry yesterday and he will pick himself up quickly.  He has really absorbed all the stuff I have learnt so far and that helps as he knows we have options and we talk backwards and forwards about the options which is good as there are so many decisions to make!  

We had lovely guests yesterday, a couple who are 6 months pg, so it was hard in some ways - there is definitely a gap between us that wasn't there before but what can we do - it just wouldn't feel right to rain on their parade with our troubles at this point.  That's one of the hardest things - to see people moving on with their lives and following their plans while we are stuck behind them in this ghastly limbo, wondering 'what if'.  

well, i definitely will be back on the horse soon - have worked out that if my cycle goes back to 28 days now, I will be ready for action on 16 June so by hook or by crook I'll be cycling then! 

Hope your LA plans start to take shape reasonably soon...

xxx


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

thinking of you all  

Lorraine xx


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Sounds like you have got plans in place juicy...  Good luck...

Sally - hope you are managing to listen to other people's problems at this difficult time for yourself...


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Sally, hope you're bearing up ok. 

Juicy, just did a longer post on the PR thread.  Glad your boss was ok and you've managed to have a fairly quiet day.  The shortbread sounds yum yum.  Keep going with that.  Glad the joint cry was therapeutic.      to you both. 

Inc, glad to hear you had a good hol. But sorry coming home is difficult.  I know the feeling of coming home to the same old issues, the same old weather, the same old grayness. I hope you reach a decision and come up with a plan that feel right soon.  .

Lorraine, hope the stimms are going ok.  

I'm having EC on Wednesday.  Geeta reckons it will 3 eggs as one of my 5 follies is too big and another too small! It's a bit disappointing and I'm terrifed about another failed fert. 

xxxx


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Good luck Francie...


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi all

Just got back from a weekend away.... really sorry to hear your news Sally and Juicy. I know how it feels and I can only say am thinking of you both right now  

Incon - hope you enjoyed your trip away and that you are feeling a bit more positive now

Lorraine - great news you are stimming, not long until I start again now!

Francie - good luck with your EC on Weds


Wiggie xx


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Best wishes for Ec francie - you might be surprised about the number of eggs as I was predicted 5 and got 8 through create so you never know

Wiggie - glad you had a lovely time in Bruge - look forward to catching up soon

Lorraine xx


----------



## ClaireP (Feb 18, 2005)

Hi girls,

Hope everyone is ok... How are you holding up Juicy and Sally? thanks for pm Juicy, no need as it's just what I would hope to read when your're feeling like your heart's been cut out with a spoon! thinking of you both anyway..... I think you have to go through a whole host of emotions until you're exhausted with them all and then you start to feel like you can keep going and look ahead instead of doing the what if what if..... bit!!! I really struggled to stop reliving my BFN and thinking of the alternative outcome!

Francie - how did ec go? and what stage are you at now Lorraine?

By the way , do any of you girls know what sort of information Create want from you in your first consultation?  ie history of fsh etc, should I prepare anything such as a brief history as my file is with ARGC and I'm not sure I'm done with them yet... although I would need to literally rob a bank to have another go there!

Take care

Love Claire xxx


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi Claire

It's best if you take along any info you have - although I think most clinics ask for your bloods etc to be re-done if more than 6 months old. Geeta also likes to do her own scan for every patient.

When's your consultation?

Wiggie x


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi Claire - good to hear from you and that you're nearly at a consult with Create.  Geeta said my bloods were ok because they were less than 12 months old i seem to remember but 6 is a fairly safe bet.  it's just the usual, HIV, Heps and stds!

Yes she will ask about your history I'm sure, but you can explain that to her - if you don't have your full file from ARGC but all the facts at your fingertips, I'm sure that's ok.  She'll chat to you, do the scan and discuss the options.  She's quite matter of fact.

I'm ok, thanks.  Feel like a meltdown is imminent as i am having a tough time at work, and thus not enough time to feel sorry for myself!

Hi Wiggie, hope you're well.  

Sally where are you?  are you ok??  

Lorraine how was Avenue Q, i must pop over to London thread and see how you're doing, must be time for EC soon?

Francie got two eggs and one embie from her cycle !  she's back for ET tomorrow


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hello Everyone

Sorry have had a bad week - call it intuition I think as I just havent felt right on this cycle and my fears were right to an extent as they could only measure one follie when I had my day 9 scan yest.  By the afternoon having looked at the pictures they now think they have 2 but having got 10 follies last time I was gutted and sobbed all the way home on the tube.  There are follies there but they are not repsnding to treatment I was quite shocked and think that stress has a lot to do with it.

Anyway onwards and upwards, LFC want to continue stimming at the same dose and I had full on acupucnture last night to try and get some more follies growing quickly - Next scan Monday 9.30am and DH has now promised to come with me to save me looking like a fruit loop on the tube again potentially  

Juicy - Avenue Q was very funny in some parts but other parts I just didnt get so overall I would say 6.5 / 10.  How are you anyway?  

Francie - Hope the 2 WW is going well and you are keeping your embie warm and comfy - sending you loads of orange    

Claire - When is the create consult - good luck - hope you get the treatment plan thats right for you  

Sally - How are you too   .  Next steps??

Incon - glad you had a lovely break away, have you adapted back to home life again now?  And what now for you?  

Wiggie - have pm'd you anyway but hello agian for about the 5th time today  

Lots of love to everyone

Lorraine xx


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi Lorraine...good to hear from you but sorry that you've had such a crappy week, that must be tough  
So sorry to think of you   on the tube  
Look, with 10 follies last time out, there is nothing to worry about longer term. This is just bad luck, the drugs may not suit you or your ovaries may be still needing a rest after the last cycle

Don't worry, I'm sure more stimming will sort it out, at least you've got the follies there for the drugs to work on, you must keep hold of that thought (speaking as someone with sod all follies!).  Hope the weekend is not too stressful for you, hard i know - will keep everything crossed that the other ones have woken up by Monday and you get a nice result at the scan!

I'm ok - it's been a tough week, i've been very busy at work which was not ideal and the next three weeks till my hol are going to be v busy and stressy too....

good work on the acu by the way

 to wiggie, Clairep, Incon, Sally....and Francie if she's checking in!


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks Juicy, You are right maybe I did still need a rest between cycles - still scan tomorrow will tell and I have been lying down sneding positive thoughts to my follies to frow since yesterday afternoon 

You were up late! - I cant remember the last time I saw past 1am - party girl!

Lorraine xx


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Oops I meant grow not frow since yesterday afternoon 

L x


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Lorraine, I'm so sorry you had a disappointing scan. I know that horrible sinking feeling when you look at the screen and you don't see many dark blobs.   Fingers crossed for some late developers tomorrow.  But as Juicy says, with 8 follies last time, this is probably just a blip. 

Juicy, sorry you're having such a [email protected] time at work.  Hope the weekend's been good and you manage to find some time for relaxation and treats too.  And not long now till that much deserved holiday.

Sally, hope you're doing ok.  

Wiggie, hello!

Claire, thanks for the PM.  I hope all goes well with your consultation at Create. When is it?

Well, as for me I'm back home in France. We drove back yesterday.  My DH did all the driving and I dozed so not quite the bed rest Zita West recommends but not far off.  Last night I managed to get the first really good night's sleep I've had for 2 weeks which was lovely.  I'm trying hard to stay positive but those negative thoughts that the chances of it working with one tiny 2 cell embie when it didn't work with 2 tip top blastos keep popping in.  But I'm   this one is going to make it.  Surely it must be our turn for a bit of luck after all we've been through!  And as this is our last go, we'll be so devastated if it doesn't work. Thanks so much fro all you postive vibes. 

xxxxx


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Well Francie I will keep those positive vibes going for you life has a funny way of testing us and maybe those embies just wanted to be back where they belong before they snuggled down and grow
Take extra special care of yourself

Dh says I am starting to resemble a pistachio nut -surely not! Still it could have been worse he could have said cow due to all the milk being drunk 

Lorraine xx


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Francie, glad you're back home safely - keep those feet up.  Girl at ZW told me bedrest just meant not doing too much strenuous stuff, lying down in bed not compulsory so sure the car was fine and it sounds like you're gone back to a more relaxing atmosphere in France than London offers!

I    embie is busily dividing away and will soon be getting properly attached. It's so hard to make ourselves think positive thoughts because the fear of disappointment is so strong - it's only natural to want to protect ourselves from it by not getting too hopeful.  But you have to remember, the size of the embryo transferred is not the sole criteria of success  

keep up the good work, and you Lorraine!


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Juicy - you are a slave driver but Okay we will keep up the good work - just obliterated my team mates at badminton so maybe tomorrow will be a good day too

Lorraine xx


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Lorraine, how was that scan yesterday.  I was thinking of you.   

Sally, don't know it you're looking in but hope you bearing up ok.  

Juicy, hope today at work is slightly less frantic. 

I'm not feeling very hopeful. I don't think my one teeny tiny embie has the best chance considering my horrible old eggs.  By DH is away which makes it more difficult to counter those negative thoughts.  I don't know if I'm trying to protect myself from disappointment.  And it's all the more difficult knowing this is our last go.  

xxxx


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi Francie

Thanks for PM yesterday, things are still nightmarishly busy, i was here dead late last night and sooo tired, it's like the weekend never happened 

Sorry you're on your own, how long is G away for?  It is so hard to be positive, I know, especially when we've had all the drugs going round, then the cyclogest and then one embie.  It does work with one embie, and there's no reason it is less likely to work for you than anyone else in this position.  

I don't know why you were looking for stories about people succeeding with one embie after failed fert on prev cycle, as i thought that outcome was not down to the quality of your eggs!!    Your eggs are fine, they can produce blastocysts!!  You could easily have another cycle after a longer gap and get eg 6 eggs and 5 fertilised.  50% fert on 2 eggs is hardly bad and doesn't mean poor old embie is doomed!  It's getting the eggs out that makes this harder for us.  (My fert rate was 33% from my three normal eggs but apparently it was just bad luck!  mind you, am still on the dhea now just in case  ) 

anyway   for you on your own, it does help the PMA to have a dh around to compensate for our natural anxieties!!  If you need a rant at any time, email or PM me a number, I'll give you a call from work phone 

Lorraine, what's the news?  I looked for update from you in London thread yesterday and saw you'd had a decision to make about whether to go ahead with two follicles.  I saw it too late to add my tuppence but agreed with what Siamese said.  I would find it hard to abandon with two - what if they were THE eggs that were destined to get you pg?!      

well done on the badminton by the way - very impressive!


xx


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Thanks a million Juicy.  Yeah, you're right.  I'm doing that mad thing of trying to convince myself it won't work in the hope that then its more likely to.  You know how when you tell everyone when you have a job interview that you don't stand a chance of getting it.  Or is that just me  

G's back tomorrow night so hopefully I'll be a bit saner then!

Hope you get home a bit earlier tonight. You work sounds like a night mare.  Hope they pay you properly! 

xxx


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Francie -   my friend sent me a card called Anything is possible and it was an inspiration card which says there is no corner of life into which a light cannot shine 
Your little embie might just be the one

And on that note we are booked in for EC tomorrow at 09.00 - scared and excited - have written a little more on the London thread

Juicy - know how you feel about work I was in Saturday from 7am off my own back and have just got home tonight - wish I could have a glass of vino but never mind - take care of yourself 

Hello Incon and Sally and Wiggie

Lorraine xxx


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Good luck Lorraine!


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Thank you Incon - hope you are well

L x


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Lorraine,  Hope the EC went well!     I saw your post on the London thread re 2 day embies.  Mine was day 2 too.  I guess the main disadvantage it that they don't get to choose the best ones like they do if it's day 3 so teh embryo quality may not be as good.  But I don't think there's any difference in implanation rates.    So hope you have your anxieties answered at LFC! 

Inc, hello.  Hope you're doing ok.  

Juicy, hi.  Hope you got home eventually.


xxx


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Good Morning

one egg collected for us today the other follie was bare 
We are keepin gou glass half full and hoping for a good fertilisaztion so that I can get that embie back inside me

take care everyone

Lorraine xx


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Well done Lorraine!  It only take 1! You have a good rest this afternoon.    for fertilisation.


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks Francie x


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

well done Lorraine!  so glad you went for it and they got that lovely egg!

 for fert for you, it's not a fun evening but I've got a good feeling for you 

phew well I've been in a settlement meeting for 9 hours straight and just back at my desk after being forced to walk ten minutes in the rain carrying heavy bags and umbrella....dumping my bags and going home to watch the football and have a very large glass of wine!  we settled so officially my late nights are over for a few weeks anywa

Francie hope G got back safely and you are feeling good, and still sane!!  what's the weather like there?  It's p**ing down here and has been all day - misery!  thank goodness you were for ok ish weather

incon - hi  

off home to watch the game now!


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Lorraine - good luck!   

Hello Francie and Juicy


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Lorriane, if you're like me I guess you're sitting my the phone waiting till 12 so we can call the lab.   

Juicy, glad to hear you've settled that case.  But 9 hours!!!! You deserved a bucket of wine! Yeah, G's back now so I'm feeling a bit better.  I've got my usual pre AF sharp pains on one side but I'm trying not to read to much into it. 

Inc, hello to you.  Good to hear from you.  Hope it's not to horrible being back at work after your holiday.

xxxx


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

yes Francie - this is the longest morning ever and my stomach is doing knots - I have been so worked up the only thing I could eat for brekkie was dairy milk chocolate
We have been up early and voted and I am just working on a policy for work and watcinh gthis mroning to try and make the time go

How are you?

Lorraine xx


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Lorraine, you can phone them before 12 as they check the embryos before then.  We called them at 11 this time as we couldn't wait.    

I'm ok.  Got the sharp back pain I always get before my AF this morning so not feeling to hopeful.  But trying hard not to read too much into it. Hard though.


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

yes it is hard I completely empathise with you - right, its time for me to be brave and call  

L xx


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

it fertilized!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

EXCELLENT NEWS!  well done Lorraine   !


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Great!  Well done you!


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Well done egg and DH's boys really   (oh and the embryologist)  

off to have lunch to celebrate - anything not to get on with writing a policy

hope all is well for everyone else - speak later

Lorraine x


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi Francie, sorry about that AF type pain giving you the  

It could also be something good but if you're like me, the more you try to analyse it the more confusing it gets as to whether it's a similar pain to what you normally have, or better or worse than normal ...

At one stage while analysing, i realised the pain had stopped and I wasn't actually sure whether it had been there at all or was just my imagination!  

Lorraine you'll be in for ET tomorrow then, how exciting!  well done

on a go slow myself today.  My sec back after her year's mat leave and we've been catching up.  It is so nice to see what a wonderful time she's had with her dd...hope that is all of us before too long 

  oh and a


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Yes good luck tomorrow for your ET Lorraine

Francie - hope it's not your AF. When do you test?

Hi to everyone else....

Wiggie x


----------



## wright66 (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi guys 
I hope you don't mind me asking but where do they do natural ivf. Do they do it in London or sussex which is where i live  Please help from wright66


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

hi wright66

create health do completely natural ivf in raynes park

london fertility centre do a mild stmulation with the aim of getting 3-5 eggs

hope that helps

lorraine x


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Lorraine, good luck with ET.   

Juicy, hello.  The weekend is nearly here! 

Inc, hello to you too.   

I've still got really bad AF pain.  And started to feel a stomach upset too which I always get before my AF.  It's not due till Wednesday, which is my test day. But with my 1st IVF my AF started 4 days early so the weekend is the next hurdle.

xxxx


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Francie- lots of    for you

ET done today and am now waiting for RAC as car has flat tyre - why today  

Lorraine x


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

How is everyone?

Francie - Hope you are ok - Was test day yesterday?

Juicy, Incon, Sally, Claire - how are you?

Wiggie - have you done your injection yet today? - hope its ok getting back into the sing of things

Lorraine x


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi Lorraine, good to hear from you - hope ET went well and 2ww madness still being kept at bay.  Can't believe you got a flat tyre that day of all days - hope RAC were good and did not let you lift a finger!

Francie, cruelly, got a BFN this morning.  She is gutted, in fact there were two BFNs on the poor responder thread....it is so harsh and unfair.  

 for better news for you next week Lorraine x

Wiggie, have you started?  Good luck for stimms if so


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

It is harsh and unfair and makes me feel so sad - In fact unfair doesnt emphasise this whole thing strongly enough really

Thanks for letting me know I will PM her

lorraine xx


----------



## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Hey all,  it's weird how the BFPs and the BFNs go in waves around here.  Not so long ago just about everyone on the male non-obstructive thread got pregnant.  Very strange.

Well I'm back in the UK after my month in Auckland.  Good news is that Fertility Associates had a fertility seminar and I went to that.  Wow, what a difference after Create!! I rang up the next day and made an appt for an initial consultation - which we went to and that's where things get interesting.  Basically, they are saying that because of my age I should go full stimm - especially because age and costs are problematic.  I'm surprised by how expensive ICSI is there, it's more than here I think.  Based on that, we've potentially only got a shot at one cycle, so the consultant is strongly advising that we stay away from mild stim and that it shouldn't affect my endo too much.

I don't know, I'm confused now.  What do you guys think?


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Welcome back Julianne! I really don't know what to advise, and each clinic and consultant has their own preferences. 

I think low stimms is great for younger ladies with good FSH - but I wasn't convinced it was the right approach for me. I got 7 eggs on full stimms last time, so would probably only have got 2-3 on mild. However it did affect my endo and I had lower back pains during and for 6 weeks after tx (which I normally only get just before my AF). 

This time I'm doing same amount of stimms (started yesterday!) but short protocol, to see if it makes any difference. Best of luck whatever you decide.....

Juicy - hope you're OK, and pls let Francie know we are thinking of her.

Hi to everyone else. There's a meet up on Weds 21st May if anyone wants to join us!

Wiggie x


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Julianne - I would trust the doctors who you have spoken to - this is a new and fantastic chapter so jump in and go for it 

Lorraine xx


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Julianne - different schools of thoughts... You are a good responder, though, so I would go for full stimms maybe, so that y ou can pick the best crop and you can have plenty to freeze, too. FET are normally v. affordable, so you could have more than one cycle if a need be.

Another school of thought is that full stimms affect the quality, but with lots of eggs to choose from you can bypass this easily...

The call is yours... I would say that the ARGC is of the same school as your docs.  Funnily enough, I found Fertility Associates on the net as offering mild stimms when I posted their details a few months back...

Good luck to all the ladies currently cycling...

I have stopped cycling now and am adjusting to my decision. The issue is whether I go for donor or not, and that's still not decided..DH avoiding any chit-chat about it and we have got only about 3 wks to go before we have to inform the clinic about our decision... A mad man..     Don't know whether I should divorce him or kill him right now... Not decided as yet....


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

dont divorce him yet incon - if he is anything like mine, he will be squirrelling away every option in his mind and then give you an answer at the 11th hour which you wont then be able to discuss back - Men!!!!


----------



## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

F.A will do a mild stim if I want them to, but given our budget difficulties and my age they were recommending a full stim cycle to get the max no. of eggs and therefore give us options I guess.  Frosties would be lovely, and this would be unlikely on a low stim approach.  Right now we've only got budget for one round of ICSI which piles the pressure on some.  The good news is that Rich is totally onboard with this now.  He did his usual freakout/psycho thing when we went near the clinic and I was saying "oh no, don't do this to me again.." and had a complete breakdown about it, yelling, tears, snot, hyperventilation - the whole schebang that you normally avoid if you don't want to see your man high tailing it for the hills, but weirdly enough it had the opposite effect (go figure as my american friends would say).  I think he's realised that the waiting for no apparent reason is driving me to the edge and that he has to shape up.  He also realised that I do know what I'm talking about and that I don't spout drivel (he has an aversion to knowing medical stuff).  He finally understands what I was trying to do last year - which is cycle with a view to freezing until he was ready.  He now regrets not doing that, and has finally got his head around the fact that my eggs are now nearly a year older and that it really matters.

hey ho.....men........


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Lorraine, thanks for your PM.  Yes, this latest disappointment really hurts.  We always said this would be our last go.  But it's hard to accept that after 5 years of trying, 3 lost pregnancies and 22 grand spent on treatment we will never be parents.  The more you invest the more difficult it is to let go.  But I think now is time to let go and move on. The fact that I was so unimpressed with our treatment on this last cycle doesn't help.  I really wanted to feel that we'd given it our very best shot.  Anyway, enough of that.  How are you doing?     for a positive one for you. 

Inc, good luck with your decision making on the donor eggs. I hope that man of yours engages soon! After so much heart seraching ourselves on what to do if this last cycle fails, I can appreciate how hard it must be. I too now have to adjust to no more cycling.  I've just had an enormous cup of coffee. Yum!  It's been over a year since I gave it up. 

Juicy, thanks!  Have pmed you.

Wiggie, thanks for thoughts.  It makes such a difference.    for lots of eggs and no back pain on this cycle. 

Julianne, good luck with your cycle, whatever approach you take.

xxxx


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Francie - I really feel for you. And you are right the more momey you invest the more difficult it is to draw a line.  Take care of yourself.


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Francie - have you considered  donor eggs? Is it sth you would consider?


----------



## Francie (Mar 11, 2008)

Inc, yes we have talked about donor eggs.  In fact at our last follow up with Geeta after our failed fert I specifically asked her about that as they have a programme with a clinic  Cyprus I think.  She was adamant that donor eggs were not something we should consider as according to her I was producing good mature eggs.  Obviously I was hugely relieved to hear her say this and that relief was the main motivation for going on to have our last cycle there, a decision I regret now.  But now we really do want to stop treatment.  I know DEs offer a much higher chance of success but there are still many people who go through several treatments trying with all the heartache and expense and end up without the longed for baby.  We feel we don't want to risk that.  I want to remember who I was before the madness of trying to conceive and treatment took over by life, and I do really feel that for me it has been like a madness.  I want to stop saying "by the time this or that happens, I'm bound to be pregnant" and then having the event come around and not being pregnant. I want to stop feeling defined by my FSH level and the state of my ovaries.  It's going to be such a huge adjustment, imagining and building a future without the children we so hoped for.  But already drinking wine in the sushine without feeling guilty and not having the awful stress of another treatment in the back of mind feels like a relief.  And I think that relief speaks volumes.  Of course,  everybody's threshold is different and I have nothing but admiration for those with more stamina than me who go on to try DEs.  If that's your decision I really hope it works for you. 

Lorraine, hope you're staying sane.    Thanks for your thoughts.

Hi to everyone else.

xxxx


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Francie - you are an inspiration and I wish you all the happiness in the world for whichever way your life now takes you

Lorraine xx


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

I echo Lorraine's thoughts

All the best 

Wiggie xxx


----------



## wright66 (Oct 22, 2007)

Has anyone done or is doing natural ivf at The Agora in Brighton. Would love to speak to you if you are !!!    wright66


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi Wright66

not cycling at Brighton - but wishing you all the luck in the world

Lorraine x


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Lorraine, how are you?  2ww madness sent you over the edge yet?!!  
Are you a sneaky early tester or are you really really going to wait till OTD?  Am keeping everything crossed for you, which is quite painful  

Wiggie hope the stims are going ok, have you had a scan yet?

Incon, sorry to hear no decisions made in your house yet.  Having a three week deadline for your DE decision probably helps, does it not?  Even if you end up doign all the talking at the 11th hour, at least there is a point you are working towards.  good luck with the decision 

Julianne, welcome back too!  I think you should go for it full stimm.  I wanted to do mild but when there is more than one problem, it makes sense to give each cycle the best chance you possibly can of a pregnancy and sadly, that means as many eggs as poss.    I may have missed a reason you've avoided it before and if so sorry but if not, i'm trying to think of what the cons are (well, apart from the cost and the side effects! but they fade quickly)

Sally....where are you?  Been thinking of you and hope you're ok and starting to regroup, maybe even getting plan together for a trip to the US?  

Francie, we've spoken and it was great to hear your voice though wish the circs were happier.  

You have had 6 months from hell....three IVFs...on top of the years of trying and the losses before.  No wonder you can't face any more and it is such a courageous decision to stop and rediscover yourselves before IF took over everything.  

I still think the next year is going to be hard too because you are still fertile and you had a final cycle that hasn't really brought satisfactory closure because there are 'what if's' about it....

if the 'what ifs' don't go away, and you decide a cycle somewhere else might take the what ifs away, for good or bad, then we'll all be here for you.  

as for me, i had a follow up at Lister today and am going to have another cycle there soon on a different protocol which they have been using wiht some success on high fsh patients (ocp/clomid/menopur).  It's good to have made a decision to pay, as the NHS was freaking me a out a bit, but we've still got it in reserve and will just have to find the money for Lister from somewhere.  Not too excited about it yet though...really needing the break and a holiday first.  really really need a holiday.....


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Think I might join you on that holiday Juicy

Wishing you all the luck in the world for your next cycle at the Lister

Lorraine x


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

HI JUicy

Good to hear from you, great that you have a plan for your next cycle.

Know what you mean about needing a holiday. We've planned a trip to Corsica following this cycle, it will be once I know what the outcome is, so I figure that if it's a BFP it ensures  I am away from work relaxing, and if it's BFN then I can enjoy myself, drink lots of wine and not have to worry! We all need a break from this madness and to relax and enjoy ourselves, otherwise it can so take over our lives and I can completely understand Francie's position of getting to the point where enough is enough.

Stimms going fine so far, although felt a bit groggy today - had acupuncture this evening which definitely helped. Not sure whether I have more or less symptoms than last time - but I know it doesn't necessarily mean anything anyway. Off for a day 9 scan tomorrow, and suspect I will need to stimm until at least day 12 as per last time.

Hi to everyone else

Wiggie x


----------



## julianne (Sep 10, 2006)

Wiggie that sounds sensible (and rather fab I must say)

Lorraine, when is your 2WW up?


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Julianne - Today!!!!!!!!!!!!!   been for a blood test so am waiting for that phone to ring

Hope everyone is well

Lorraine x


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

fINGERS crossed Lorraine.  Have you not done htp yet?  You sound positive... so I reckon we are awaiting a bfp?


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

thank you yes   this time - am in complete shock and cant stop shaking xx


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

Congratulations!           

Was about time we had a bfp on the thread.  Was it just one embie if I recall correctly... or have I got this completely wrong?  


You must be in shock?  Have you done a sneaky htp before going for bloods?


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

No I was too scared to do an HPT so waited like an angel for the blood result

yes they only collected on egg as I reposnded poorly to the treatment so they popped it back on day 2 and here I am now - i just cant believe its me, thank goodness DH persuaded me not to abandon the cycle which was the favourable option by the clinic

Lorraine xx


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

You are indeed a lucky girl.... Fingers crossed that the levels keep doubling now... ..  Great news...


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks Incon - how are you though?


----------



## INCONCEIVABLE (May 1, 2007)

so, so...


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Have blown you some bubbles


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Fantastic news Lorraine you must be over the moon. Just shows it only takes one      

Have my EC tomorrow at Guys after just 9 days stimms - the SP certainly made my follies respond sooner and better. Am expecting 4-6 eggs and hopefully better quality this time

Wiggie xx


----------



## champagne for me (Nov 30, 2007)

Got everything crossed for you Wiggie that EC is straight forward and brings you 4-6 eggs

Lorraine xx


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

WOW!!!!! LORRAINE!!!!  I was at the cricket all day yesterday and up to my eyeballs back at work but just checked in thinking your test must be today - can't believe I missed it!!

SO delighted for you, it's absolutely fantastic!  Well done for sticking with the cycle too when it looked not promising - i had a good feeling for you!!!!

     

  !!!

great news!


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Wiggie - hope your EC went well today!  after 9 days too - so glad your response looks great! 

Look forward to hearing how you got on and then     for good fert!

take it easy tonight xx


----------



## ClaireP (Feb 18, 2005)

Congratulations Lorraine!!!!!!!!!!!!

How absolutely brilliant! just goes to show it is quality not quantity!!  what's your hcg levels?

Sorry not been on for ages I've got my reflexology exams so I'm having to stay off ff!!

Good luck Wiggie- sounds like you've stimmed well.

Love Claire xx


----------



## ClaireP (Feb 18, 2005)

Juicy  - sorry forgot in my excitement for Lorraine

Hope you are feeling brighter, it sounds like the Lister at least put some thought into their protocols to rank up your follies!  what is ocp? just interested as obviously it's in the back of my mind about keeping my options open as to where i cycle next.  I have my follow up with ARGC on 29th May and also at Create, just weighing up options as I am still reeling from my £8k spend on one egg and just can't go down that route again!

Have you booked your hols? - sorry if not read properly - apparently sunshine does wonders for your stimulating the pituituary gland which obviously controls our hormones ... you should get an fsh done when you get back!!

Love Claire xx


----------



## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi Claire - good to hear from you and good luck with the exams!  Ooh will have to see where you are based in case you do home visits for FFers when you're qualified!!

I don't think I'll get much sunshine on my hols as we're off to Ireland for a week for my cousin's wedding, nearly all my family going (two sisters, two BILs, three nephews, my parents, one brother ) - we've hired a couple of adjoining houses.  Dh and i goign next friday and staying in a swanky hotel for one night first on our way.  
Lack of sun won't matter as am so bloody desperate to get away 

Wiggie, you have definitely done the right think booking your trip to Corsica for right after tx - I really wish we had gone away sooner as after 2 tx back to back, we are exhausted and i have found the last 3 weeks at work just excruciating

Claire, the OCP just oral contraceptive pill - think the idea is that rather than a full downreg which my ovaries might not wake up from, it quietens everything down in the hope that my fsh doesn't send one follicle shooting off at the start and soaking up loads of drugs- the clomid recruits maybe one or two more follicles and hopefully they will grow a bit more evenly

I can imagine how you feel about your investment in last cycle - having achieved only one embryo ourselves, I would dearly like to do better this time

I am on DHEA since last BFN and my AF has come early this month so am thinking that I might not cycle till my period in July, just to give the DHEA more time to work and me more time to spend addressing my   problem!!  Just struggling to lose half a stone - doesn't sound like much but is getting me down and have rejoined the gym this week and want to get into a position where I feel fit and able to cope better with the whole ordeal!

good luck with your decision - you probably should think about a consult at the Lister even if just to reassure you that you should stick with ARGC. However, Lister are very nice and have excellent results considering how open their door is. 

have a lovely weekend


----------



## Wiggie (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi all

Well I had 6 eggs collected yesterday, however only 2 were mature. Luckily both have fertllised and I am back in tomorrow for a day 2 transfer. Will only find out tomorrow whether they have divided OK.....

It does make me wonder though whether they collected too early. This time I only had 9 days of stimms on short protocol, but last time 5 / 7 eggs were mature after 12 days stimms. Do other clinics routinely check oestradiol levels as well as number/size of follies in order to time EC? At Guys they only do it for PCOS patients, but I have to say that this time I had much less CM (sorry if tmi!) which I know is a good indicator of rising E2 levels, and I wonder whether an E2 test would have made any difference. Having said that, I did have 4 good size follies at the day 9 scan and they predicted 4-6 eggs.

Juicy - enjoy your break, as you say the main thing is to get away! Your swanky hotel sounds like a fab idea. Have to agree with you on the weight gain - I'm still trying to lose the 1/2 stone I gained on my first cycle!

ClaireP - good luck with your follow-ups and your reflexology exams. When do you qualify?

Hi to Incon, Julianne, Lorraine and anyone else who is checking in....

Wiggie xx


----------



## Rachel (Mar 10, 2004)

New home this way........................

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=140920.new#new


----------

