# Involuntary childlessness has a significant impact, study shows



## LiziBee (Aug 24, 2004)

http://www.bionews.org.uk/page_68973.asp?dinfo=J7x1IHn8endh8czxoWt8JtEr

/links


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## galaxy girl (Feb 12, 2008)

Truely not surprised by the findings. Interesting article.


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## LiziBee (Aug 24, 2004)

This article sort of backs it all up
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100819112118.htm

It shows how parenting is sort of our highest need - so imagine what depriving someone of the ability to become a parent might do?!

Lizi.x


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

LizziBee that is a  very interesting link thanks


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## Skybreeze (Apr 25, 2007)

Interesting, I can totally understand it to be honest.


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## Mistletoe (Holly) (Jan 1, 2007)

I have been saying all this stuff for years - perhaps I should have written an article and published it first   

I try an describe it to some people who just don't get it that we live in a world where everyone has children except you. I ask them how they would feel if they were walking across the desert and were starving and dying of thirst and you came across a party where there were lavish drinks and food being served. The people at the party invite you in and expect you to be as jolly and happy as they are and you are expected to join in and comment on how wonderful the party is, but you are banned from having any food or drink.
To me it is as fundamental as that.


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## Lilo2 (May 10, 2009)

Hi ladies, yes fascinating articles, I particularly like the reworking of Maslow's hierarchy as I remember doing that at college.

Hazel - love your analogy.

I have heard the argument (no doubt from people who don't want children, or popped them out on demand) that IVF should not be funded because it's a 'lifestyle choice'!  I've always thought that was tosh, but it's nice to see some scientists taking us seriously.

Lilo xx


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## roze (Mar 20, 2004)

It doesnt surprise me. Myself and DH had to grow a second skin over the years we tried to conceive, many of which were extremely hurtful. I totally concur with the analogy of not being allowed food and drink. We were lucky even with donor eggs as nothing seemed to work and my response to the medication was very erratic and not that positive. We therefore have dumbfounded medical science by tx suddenly working the older I got esp having twins post menopause when everything gets  a little more tricky. 

I normally post on the abroadies threads where most of the women have donor tx but do read other threads and often wonder how the word could be spread further about donor eggs and the process of going abroad. I do believe sincerely that not everyone would automatically think of going down the donor route or going abroad as it is very outside the box. It is very sad to read how some people feel that there are no options for them if they cannot conceive naturallly especially when some are still in their 30s and hence relatively young. I think of sending a PM but am concerned that they might find it offensive for someone who has struck lucky not once but three times to start handing out unsolicited advice.

If anyone has any ideas on this it would be great to hear from them.


best wishes


roze


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## Lilo2 (May 10, 2009)

Hi Roze, yes it's tricky.  I did suggest to DE on a thread to someone and they blanked me, so it's a tricky topic.

Liloxx


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## MARPSJR (Jul 29, 2009)

http://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(09)00117-4/abstract

http://theafa.typepad.com/theafablog/2010/08/is-infertility-an-illness-a-personal-perspective-and-call-for-increased-advocacy-for-awareness.html

Here are two links. One to a study in Canada which states that women risk being childless because of insufficient education on fertility issues such as how it declines with age. The other is my article posted on the American Fertility Awareness blog triggered by a comment my own mother made that what I had wasnt an illness and so she wouldnt come to spend time with me (a few weeks - we live overseas) when I asked her to as moral support, which at the time I much needed to be honest. It is funny how a grown woman can revert to a child that needs her mum but there you are - and it is hard when they tell you they wont give you the supprt.

Thanks so much for posting these articles and links - I find them very interesting! And convince us that we arent loo loo for our strong emotions.


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## Mistletoe (Holly) (Jan 1, 2007)

That article you posted Marpsjr is very interesting and again a lot of what I have been saying for years.

I have tried to explain it to my counsellor that I do feel like I am suffering a terminal illness.
It is the termination of my genes. All of what I have worked for, and what my mum and dad worked for going to waste instead of my child.

If someone gets terminal cancer, they lose the hopes and dreams that they had for the years ahead - Infertility is losing your hopes and dreams for the future.

A cancer patient loses the ability to spend time with the family they love.
Infertility makes you lose the ability to spend time with the children and grand children you thought you would have.

There is very good evidence from the work of Alice Domar and associates (mind body program) that indicates that out of cancer, AIDS, infertility and chronic pain, there are similar stress and depression scores - only pain scores slightly higher than the others.

People say infertility is not an illness that you can die of - I have felt suicidal more than once on this journey, I sometimes feel so hopeless and wonder what the point of living is.

Luckily, by doing a Mind Body program this year, I have found a way to put joy into my life, control my feelings and try IVF again after what happened to my baby last year. I don't know what the future will hold, but I now have some tools to cope.


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## LiziBee (Aug 24, 2004)

Marpjsr - and interesting article, thanks for sharing.
Roze - I don't suggest it, I remember how cut up I was when someone else suggested it was the only way forward. I do however think it was the best thing we could ever have done (well I do have two lovely daughters to show for it!!) and when someone suggest that this was "giving up" (as more than one person has on this site) I get very upset so now I just don't mention it.
Hazel - good luck with your TX journey 
Lizi.x


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## MARPSJR (Jul 29, 2009)

Hopeful Hazel - it is great that you found a programme that gave you the tools to cope.  Good luck with the next IVF!  

I think people underestimate what it feels like, and are often dismissive because they really dont know what to say and it is easier to put you down or dismiss you as 'over-reacting' than to deal with the issues in them or to really imagine what it would be like to walk in your shoes.  Unfortunately for my family I have been very vocal about it, and well I found that the fact that the AFA published my pieces actually made it harder for them to ignore me because it proved that there was a professional body out there that validated what I was saying.  They still try to turn the other cheek though.  

The fact that it has now been medically recognised as a disease by the World Health Organisation and so remind people of this the next time they are dismissive.  And the studies you mention are great ones to share.  Or do they still think they know better than the professionals?


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## Lilo2 (May 10, 2009)

Hi Marpsjr, great article and v interesting to hear that infertility has been classed as an illness by WHO.

Hazel another interesting analogy, you're right about the loss of the family and grandchildren.  When we were on holiday we went to a park which was a real gathering place for families on a sunday.  I felt very sad as I walked around these large family groups and felt that we would never be part of such a thing.  I felt like a real outcast, not to mention a failure.  Very depressing...  Still, not quite given up hope... and I'm glad you feel able to carry on with your treatment.

Lizi perhaps you're wise not to mention it, but it's weird that people on these boards, who should really know better, would say hurtful things about going the donor route.

Lilo xx


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