# 6 months' wait



## pharmchick

I have looked at the clinic info for CRGH for host surrogacy and it states that they thaw embryos for 6 months before they can transfer them into a surrogate because they need at least two HIV tests from the IPs at least 6 months apart before they can do the transfer. Does every clinic have that policy? How can I wait for 6 months just because of a silly HIV test? I know safety is prime, but all my plans are scattered because of this 6 months rule... Please advise. Does ARGC have the same rules?


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## nostalgicsam

Hello, not sure what you mean by 6 month thaw; the HFEA do require that sperm or embryos are quarrantined for a period of 6 months and this is mainly due to HIV as you can have blood tests that are clear and then not a few months later, I'm afraid everyone going through surrogacy has to adhere to this rule, our embryos were frozen for more than 6 months b4 we got the opportunity to use them.  

I know that some clinics do allow fresh sperm to be used but there aren't many that do...

Why does waiting cause a problem ?


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## nevergiveup1

I didnt want to wait 6 months either so I went out of the UK for treatment. 

But most places in the uk do have the rule.


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## pharmchick

nostalgicsam, sorry I meant 6 months quarantine not thaw... The problem is that as you know, surrogacy is done in an altruistic manner only here in the UK. A lot of things can happen in 6 months. My surrogate is currently not on contraceptives. What if she gets preg during that time and can't be a surrogate again? Besides, the longer you have to wait the more likely someone is to change their mind. Bearing in mind I would have already paid 80% of the costs, then something like that happens. I would have lost my money and more importantly TIME. I have a problem carrying babies to term so there is no point putting embryos back into me. Finding another surrogate here is extremely difficult... The whole thing is just delaying my whole plans....
Do you know of any clinics which allow the use of fresh sperm/fresh embryos in surrogacy? Nevergiveup, where did you eventually go overseas? I am also considering going overseas now.


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## ♥JJ1♥

At ARGC they don't make the embryos be stored for 6 months so you cna use fresh embryos but they need  the sperm to have been quarantined for 6 months, thankfully we had some stashed there from a previous cycle  few years back, you won't find a clinic in London that will allow you to use fresh sperm as it is a HFEA stipulation, I have heard on FF of a family in Manchester CARE That used fresh sperm and eggs! 

I would get some sperm frozen at any clinic and pre HIV etc tests, as it could take 6 months to arrange surrogacy after counselling, legal etc.

Good luck


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## ♥JJ1♥

nostalgicsam said:


> Hello, not sure what you mean by 6 month thaw; the HFEA do require that sperm or embryos are quarrantined for a period of 6 months and this is mainly due to HIV as you can have blood tests that are clear and then not a few months later, I'm afraid everyone going through surrogacy has to adhere to this rule, our embryos were frozen for more than 6 months b4 we got the opportunity to use them.
> 
> I know that some clinics do allow fresh sperm to be used but there aren't many that do...
> 
> Why does waiting cause a problem ?


Naostalgicam which clinics do you know that allow fresh sperm to be used? I was desperate to find one but all said frozen
Lx


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## pharmchick

JJ, storing sperm rather than embryos for 6 months would be a better option for us considering the financial side of things. It's just too risky for us to pay so much money and then having to tell our surrogate to "pause" for 6 months. I guess I should start contacting ARGC. I will certainly ask CRGH if storing sperm rather than embryos for 6 months is an option, because CRGH would be my 1st choice of clinic.


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## ♥JJ1♥

why would CRGH be your first choice of clinic? have you cycled there before?

If not try ARGC, LWC, Create, Dr Gorgy, and ??CRM


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## nostalgicsam

The 6 month quarrantine is for both sperm and or embryos i.e. if you have no embies yet you get your sperm frozen ASAP in my case I only had one shot at the IVF prior to total hyst so our embies were frozen way b4 my op recovery and surrogacy, abroad I'd recommend Reprofit in CZ, JJ the only clinics I know of that I know have done fresh sperm treatments are the CARE ones.

Your surrogate shouldn't be getting pregnant or indeed havign sex if you're in an arrangement with her !!!

As for her changing her mind if there were to be a wait, this sounds more and more like she is either not committed or leading you on a bit ?

As for bearing in mind "I would have already paid 80% of the costs, then something like that happens" there is no way you should be paying your surro so uch upfront or do you mean in clinic costs ?

I know that finding a surrogate here is extremely hard as it took us 2 yrs to meet someone and then 3 offered at once LOL

Perhaps you are better off just going to reprofit, their clinic costs are way cheaper than the uk for host surrogacy, and even with flights hotels etc you will pay it and get on with it as soon as reproft can see you. I do understand the somewhat desperation of finding and keeping a surro but please think of yourselves too
x


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## ♥JJ1♥

I actually spoke to Stephan in Reprofit and he was really supportive if surrogacy over there with OE or DE's but I don't want to go out of London as have cycled abroad in Spain before (DE) and it has put me off going abroad from a practical point of view, plus my surrogacte if already travelling to the UK to do it


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## pharmchick

Nostalgism, how can you tell someone not to have sex lol ? My surrogate is my cousin, she is currently a single mum but has an on off relationship with the father of her baby. She is not using any hormonal contraceptive. I do not think she would want to get pregnant intentionally at present but I was saying in case an "accident" happens, she would certainly not abort the child. That is why I said the longer I ask her to hang around waiting, the more likely such things are. We are humans, even my own last pregnancy was not planned... Likewise I cannot "demand" for her to go on contraceptives for at least next 6 months "just for me" because she said she gets too many side effects from hormonal contraceptives.... Remember she is trying to help me, so I cannot suddenly tell her she should not have sex for the next 6 months. It's her right to have sex, just like anyone else lol. I can only tell her to change her lifestyle once the process has started and of course when she is actually pregnant. An altruistic surrogate arrangement is a very sensitive issue for the very reason that you are relying on someone's good faith to help you. You cannot enforce anything on the person legally unlike in commercial surrogacy where everything is set out on a legally binding contract. 
In terms of payment I was referring to payment to the clinic not my surrogate. My cousin does not want us to pay her any money and is doing it for purely altruistic reasons. I was talking about paying for the whole IVF procedure and meds in order to create the embryos which will be frozen for 6 months, which I think is about 80% of the total cost of the surrogacy cycle. The last stage of embryo transfer into the surrogate is only a fraction of the total cost. Unless the clinics allow you to spread the cost and pay at the end? Do you know maybe? I doubt it though... I will check out reprofit. Quite a few people on here have had positive experiences. You are so lucky that you got 3 surrogates in the end and that you now have lovely twins!


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## pharmchick

JJ, I don't actually have any particular reason for having CRGH as first choice other than that they have impressive results for IVF, second only to ARGC. The bad press at ARGC put me off a little bit, so that's why I wanted to go to CRGH first....But I havent  actually cycled at any clinic here in the UK. You mentioned your surrogate is travelling to the UK for treatment, where is she residing? Is it someone you know?


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## nevergiveup1

Pharmchick, I have been treated at argc and crgh and argc is by a long way my preferred clinic. CRGH is also good but I think they cherry pick their clients and chase away and difficult cases to increase their stats. The argc help everyone. Also bare in mind something they do not tell you up front... if you do not make 4 follicles, they will cancel your cycle. They threatened to do this to me even after having a hysteroscope before the cycle. ARGC will collect if you have ONE follocle. I know someone at ARGC who had one egg collected and fell pregnant and then went back for a sibling and had 3eggs collected and had another baby. Had she been at crgh, they would have cancelled her cycle and she would not have been on their figures. Cancelling all cycles with less than 4 eggs, really rules out a lot of difficult patients, even before you chase away the other difficult cases. Also my cycle at CRGH was about 2k more expensive than my most expensive cycle at the ARGC.

In CRGH's favour, the embryologists are very good and they do assisted hatching which I really like and ARGC dont really like to do assisted hatching. I loved my cycle at CRGH and would go back, dont get me wrong but it was sooooo stressfull there as the doctors are all doom and gloom and argc is like cycling at home, I love the clinic.

But CRGH did get me my only positive pee stick, even if it didnt last. I saw a line for 5 full days and love them for it.

I went to south africa for surrogacy. But much closer to home, I think the clinics in athens like serum are very good.

BOTH CRGH and ARGC are very different and I wish you luck with the cycle. I think your best bet is if you are with your cousin, just find a clinic outside of the UK and get the treatment done asap like you want to. I also didnt want to wait and totally understand that. I was worried about my age and eggs deteriorating and 6 months sounded like doom for my eggs!! I just wanted to get on with it.

Lots of luck!! Its a wonderful journey!!


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## ♥JJ1♥

She is a friend of ours, and sister of my dear friend, and from Ireland.

The bad press about ARGC is rubbish to be honest and the BBC ended up paying Mr T £1m in compensation for it, and he won his case at the GMC. You'll find stories about most clinics somewhere, wrong embryos mixed up, clinics work stopped for breach of HFEA considtions, sperm not being stored an checked out as per protocol, but the clinics generally aimed to give pts a good service.

Part of you contract has to be about her contraception/sex life, ARGC want mine to go on the Pill, she has an implant in at the moment, but you need to discuss her sex life- you also don't want her exposing herself to diseases and unprotected sex if she is pregnant or trying to get pregnant with you child. Like nostaligscan says she is either committed or not. Maybe you should both go to a one off counselling or look on sites like COTS/SUK where she could 'chat' to other surrogate and explore if she could do it and expectations.
You also need a surrogacy agreement if you are going through a clinic, this is your expectations and hers so that there are no surprises along the way!

Re payment to clinics, most clinics will expect you to pay for the whole IVF cycle when you start the cycle off and start with the day 1 bloods and drugs of the month that you are going to cycle. If the cycle gets abandoned or parts of it, some refund parts of the process, I failed to get to ET on my 2nd cycle so got £250 back!

Good luck
L x


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## pharmchick

JJ and nevergiveup, thanks for the tips. Definitely, my best bet is to go overseas. I think Intersono would be a good place to go. Most people have had very positive experiences there although they are much more expensive than other clinics in the Ukraine. Plan is to go in May or June. I just want to have tried at least one cycle before the year runs out. I can't let 2011 go again with no child...


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## nevergiveup1

TBH, I have never discussed my surrogates sex life at all. She is married and other than the contract stating that she refrains during the month of the cycle, that is all that I expected. She is married and I expect she will have sex at other times. I didnt discuss her contraception or otherwise. 

I still wouldnt discuss it with her and I fully expect she will be having sex other than the time we are cycling.

So whatever feels right for you. This is our second time and it worked out so well on our first surrogacy.

I also think your best bet is to go out of the country, good luck and hope it works for you!!


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## pharmchick

Yes, I also think it's a bit too intrusive to discuss her sex life other than during cycling. Just like you said you would expect your surrogate to carry on with her normal sex life during pregnancy unless instructed otherwise by a doctor for example. And telling your surrogate that she needs to practise safe sex is a bit patronising;  who doesn't know that? Even if she didn't how would I know anyway? It's all about trust really. I know my cousin personally, so I am not worried about her catching STDs while pregnant. If I was I wouldn't agree for her to be my surrogate. 
Some clinics overseas give you the option to start egg stimulation in your country and then carry on there. How practical is that? I tried looking for clinics which offer such a service here in the UK and so far I haven't found any. Most are not ready to do so unless you carry on the treatment at one of their partner clinics or satellite clinics. Any tips? If I can't find any clinic here, then I will just undergo the whole procedure there in the Ukraine.


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## nevergiveup1

If you wanted a scan/ scans for example during first week of stims before going abroad, call CREATE HEALTH and ask for Professor Campbell in harley street. I have been to him while cycling before for a second opinion from another clinic and he just charged for the scan. I am sure he would help.

Is that what you are asking.??


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## pharmchick

nevergiveup, I am not sure what sort of monitoring is required during egg stimulation. I think ultrasounds and blood tests are performed, isn't it? So I would need a clinic that would monitor me during egg stimulation and be in contact with the other clinic in the Ukraine, until when I go to the Ukraine for the last stage of stimulation.


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## nevergiveup1

Speak to professor campbell. he may help. Even if you just got the info from them and relayed it by email to ukraine??

Ask at ukraine as you could just go on for the scans and ask for the bloods they require?

Then forward the information.


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## ♥JJ1♥

Some FFers use Dr Gibbs at the Birth company in Harley Street- he is very reasonable some scans are only £70 and he charges much less for scan and he also prescribed drugs for a freind who was cycling overseas.  I have used 92 Harley St as well.  I have also been scanned by Prof Campbell

L x


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## ♥JJ1♥

They can also do bloods for you


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