# Fragmented Embryos - can anyone help?



## Moshy29 (Aug 13, 2006)

Hi Ladies

Can anyone help me ?

We have just had our first cycle of IVF which was BFN.  We are an 'unexplained' case and whilst I fully appreciate the statistics, I really did think it would work 1st time for us....idiot!  I cannot believe how badly the negative has affected me and I have been signed off work for 2 weeks.  I am back to work next monday and just about ready to face the world again. 

So, we had 10 eggs collected, 8 of which fertilised (IVF) and a day 3 transfer where we had 2 grade B (where A is good and E is poor) embies put back - one 5 cell and one 6 cell.  We only found out at ET stage that none of the other 6 were not suitable for freezing and I suppose I should have taken this as a sign things weren't going as well as they could be.  But we were told the embies that went back were 'beautifiul embryos' and that we shouldn't get hung up on the grading.  

Now, I realise that embryos of all grades can and do implant, however, they obviously grade them for a reason and that reason has to be that the better the grade, the higher the chances of implantation.

It transpires that the 6 remaining embryos were 1 grade C and 5 grade D - with the main reason for the grading being a lot of fragmentation.  I have done some research on the internet and pretty much found out that they do not know a precise cause of fragmentation and that it is more common in IVF cycles.  

Does anyone know of anything we can do to improve the quality of our embryos next time?  Consultant seemed to indicate not and said that next time we could produce better quality embryos (and he has known this to happen before) but that it is also an indication of how things could go next time.  He mentioned that it could be the culture media that they use and that we could look at another clinic that perhaps use a different one - is he just passing us off because we have had a failure?

Would love to hear from anyone who has had a similar experience that can offer advice or has gone on to get a BFP next time around because I am feeling pretty despondent about the whole process at the moment.

Thanks for listening!

Moshy x x x


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## saphy75 (Mar 15, 2004)

Hi Moshy

firstly sorry i have only got 2 mins so my post will be brief  

very sorry to read you got a bfn hun and the rest of your embies were fragmented, the same thing happened on my first cycle- i got 12 eggs with 8 fertilised normally 2 put back the others were too fragmented to freeze. but on my second ivf i drank 2 litres of water a day took lots of vits (recomended by zita west book) and again i got 12 eggs 8 fertilised normally 2 put back but this time all remaining 6 embryo's were good enough to freeze. it was our choice not to use the frosties and adopt instead but who knows what might of been  

good luck, pam xx


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

I have just had to abandon my cycle before ET, on my last cycle (Long protocol with Menopur) I got 7 eggs- 6 mature and 3 fertilised with ICSI.  and then m/c and lost my baby at 7 weeks and 6 days in Dec.

This time (Short protocol with Gonal F) only got 5 eggs and 3 were immature (2 were ICSI one did nothing and died and the other has not moved on since yesterday afetrnoon.  I am also wondering what I can do to help with the egg qulaity/maturity, they were all over 20 mm when collected!!
ALso think of changing clinics now.

L


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## Moshy29 (Aug 13, 2006)

Hi Ladies,

Thanks Saphy for your reply I might just try the water thing next time - I do struggle with 2 litres a day though.  Perhaps I could build it up between now and our next cycle.  Good luch with adoption, have you been matched yet?  Where are you in the process?

JJ1, sorry to hear of your abandoned cycle, has your consultant said why he/she feels it didn't work this time?  Also, I don't understand the difference between long and short protocol....I just thought everyne had to down reg, then stimm, then ec then et.  Is it to do with the time it takes to down reg? Or the drugs used?  Sorry if I am being    

Moshy x x x


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## saphy75 (Mar 15, 2004)

Hi Moshy thanks hun, i adopted a baby boy (14 weeks old) last may he is now 1 year old and is absolutely gorgeous  

pam xx


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## Moshy29 (Aug 13, 2006)

Wow Pam that is amazing.  I would definately consider adoption if we are not lucky enough to have our own children.  How long does the process take, if isn't something we have researched as yet.

Have a great wkend

Moshy x x x


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## saphy75 (Mar 15, 2004)

the length of the process varies greatly as no-one can predict how soon a match can be found but the approval process shouldn't take longer than 9 months from your official application being accepted   we were very lucky as we officially applied april/may 2005 and were matched in may 2006 the whole process from initial enquiry to bringing our baby home took us 18 months but i know for some it goes quicker and for others it takes longer

good luck, pam xx


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

Moshy the short protocol tends to be used for poorer responders (that is my understanding) and you start to sniff and stimm on the same day (day 2) of the cycle. I don't really the ins and outs of it- I used the same drugs as on the long protocol.

L x


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## GAC (Apr 5, 2006)

hi just to give u a bit of hope i had ivf back in 1998 i got 36 eggs 16 fertiliised other 2o were too imature on day 3 1 was grade 2 with 1 been the best 4 were grade 3 the rest were grade 4 severley fragmented.Ihad the grade 2 and the 2 grade 3 put back cos then u could have 3 put back 2 weeks later bfp iwas having twins but lost one at 6 weeks i now have a healthy 8 year old.We have had 3 more cycles of treatment and my embies have been much better grade 1/2 so inbetween yet no success.I think if they divide well and have even cells and are normal shaped cells then  this is a good sign i was told that the majority of women get grade 2 embryos and they are still capable of providing a pregnancy  luv gac xxxxx


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## MackLM (Feb 21, 2006)

Hey girls, 

I don't know whether this will really help, as I have not had a BFP - yet!       

But the quality of my eggs/embryos really improved this time...

ICSI no 1 had 2 replaced that were a grade 2, 5 cell and grade 2, 6 cell - from 7 fertilised.
ICSI no 2 had 2 replaced that were a grade 1, 7 cell and grade 2, 7 cell - from 11 fertilised.
ICSI no 3 had 2 replaced that were a blastocyst and expanded blasted and we freezed 3 expanded blastocysts - from 16 fertilised.

As I said, it may mean v little as those embies still didin't give us a BFP, but it was definitely our best chance.  What I did differently was:
Change clinics, to ARGC = daily monitoring, differing drugs and doseages daily.
Ate approx 60g protein per day, including whey to go protein shakes.
Drunk around 4l of water (with orange sqaush - hate water!)
No alcohol, caffeine, little processed food, organic food when possible.  I also had acupuncture too but to be honest I don't think I will have this next time as I don't believe it's helping (I swear i'm immune!)

Anyway, I do think the protein helped, so maybe it's worth a go.  I will definitely do the same next time, though I hope there won't be a next time and that our frosties will give us our long awaited baby/babies v soon!

GOOD LUCK!

Mack x


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## Moshy29 (Aug 13, 2006)

Hi Ladies, 

Thank you all for your advice on my questions.  I am just so wrapped up in the whole embryo grading thing.  I know they say not to get hung up on it but how can you not when it clearly makes a difference   .  

Will think about our next tx when I am being more realistic I think.  I am just so scared of it turning out the same as this failed cycle and I really can't bear the thought of feeling as sad as I did, I have never been so sad in my life and it was horrible      .  

If only there was a magic wand!!!!!

Good luck to you all.

Love Moshy x x x


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