# Negative IVF cycles - what next?



## j9widde (Apr 16, 2005)

Hi

My name is Judith.  I am 34 and have just had a fourth unsuccessful try at ivf.  My infertility is caused by endometriosis.  
The reason I am so sad, apart from the fact the treatment did not work, is that when I went to get the pregnancy test (I already knew it hadn't worked as bleeding had started), the nurse advised me in so many words, that I should now give up and that the doctors would probably say the same when I go for my follow up appointment.  She said ultimately it was my decision, but the doctors might not be happy if i go against their advice.
The problem is that every ivf cyle has been using fresh embryos so i have had to go through the treatment from scratch every time as I have never had enough embryos to freeze.  At first I had good quality embryos (1's and 2's) but in the last 2 cycles the embryos have been very poor and this is why I think they think i should not get have more treatment.
I haven't got a follow up appointment for at least a month yet and feel as though I have just been left to deal with this.
If anyone has any thoughts on my story, it would be great to hear from you.


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## Smurfs (Oct 19, 2004)

Hi Judith

Welcome to FF.  Just wanted to send you a big  .

Love Shaz xxx


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## saraD (Mar 9, 2005)

Judith,
my heart goes out to you it sounds as if you have really been through the ringer on this. Wait until you have had a chance to speak to the Dr, do not just take the nurse's advice, many times the nurses say something and we end up fretting about it needlessly, I don't think they are aware sometimes of how much we take things to heart so what they say and the way they say it can make a bg difference but your Dr is the expert here. Perhaps all you really need is some time off so that you can relax and enjoy life a bit, I do think that our bodies get worn down with the emotional and physical stress that fertility treatments can put us through. Sending a big hug to you as a fellow endo sufferer and ff 
Sara


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## Mel (Jan 1, 2002)

Hi Judith

My heart goes out to you hun, Perhaps Sara has hit the nail on the head with see your consultant first before making any decisions and agree to have a rest just so your body can get back to some normality (easier said than done i know because i think everyone on here just wants to get on rollercoaster and keep going.)

Dont take the nurses word for it with what you should do and i wish i had the answer for you.

I also have endo so know what havoc it can play withyour body and how it affects us.

Sending hugs to you.

Mel
x x


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## Debs (Mar 22, 2002)

Hi Judith,

Welcome to FF  

I too have had 4 cycles (icsi in my case) and have yet to be sucessful.  Its definatley worth seeing your consultant and seeing what he has got to say to you.  I feel that my last follow up was the best follow up I did have as he arranged blood tests to check on things that hadnt been checked before and sure enough they did highlight I was low in progesterone. I know our dx isnt the same but see what he can tell you and if he can do anything else to help.

Can you ask the hospital to let you know if there are any cancellations so that you can get an earlier appointent?

Please dont think your on your own on this journey Judith - we are all here for you and understand  

Wishing you the best of luck.

Love

Debs xxx


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## RubyRoo (Mar 19, 2005)

hi judith,
i really feel for you but have to say that i don't think you should give up hope yet.  i have also had 5 icsi treatments and have never had any embroys frozen so, like you, start from scratch every time but i don't think that's a huge problem (except financially of course) and anyway you have more chance of success with a fresh cycle then using frozen.  i have never really produced any great quality embroys either - my 1st two attempts they were terrible and then the next 2 - when i moved clinics - they were better.  my last cycle i used donor eggs (my cousins) as that's what was suggested to me but unfortunately my cousin only produced 5 eggs and they weren't grade 1's either.  we have an appointment with our consultant on thursday to discuss what we should do next but basically he always tells us that you can never say never and lots of women still get pregnant with bad quality embroys and you just can never tell what is going to happen.  sometimes the nurses just say things and they don't realise just how much we hang onto every word they say and analyse it all! Also if you managed to produce decent quality embroys the first couple of times you might be able to again? Did they give you any reasons as to why they weren't as good?  Basically every cycle is different so you shouldn't give up hope - just wait for your follow up, i'm sure they will come up with some suggestions?  love x


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## Lilly (Apr 27, 2003)

Hi Judith 

Welcome to ff , I  have done 6 cycles of Ivf and it took me 5 trys to get a bfp then i sadly m/c at 8 weeks i just wanted to send you a big   and say please dint give up hope I'm wishing you all the best with your appointment and please keep us posted we r all here for you hun thinking of you 

love Lilly xxx


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## Scotty H (Apr 21, 2005)

Hi Judith, 
Myself and my DW have undergone 3 ICSI cycles with no luck. The first cycle was ceased when the clinic realised they had given Jules the wrong dosage of Gonal F, gutted. Second attempt worked but a misscarriage occurred very early on. Third was simply a none event although poor Jules had her body playing tricks on her on her 2ww. We're at it again in May and yesterday, we spoke to our consultant. Thats the only place we rely on for hard facts as the nurses, fantastic though they are, sometimes offer conflicting views.

Best of luck!!

Scotty (new to FF)


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## Tracey L (Jul 7, 2003)

Hello all

I wonder if any of you could help me.
I have just had my 4th IVF failure.  I have mild PCO but don't think that is the main factor.

I have an appointment to see the consultant on 7th June and would like to go armed with questions. I have been looking at some of the tests that are carried out after m/c or repeated failures and wonder if i should have some of these tests done.  There is obviously an implantation issue as every step of the treatment is fine and one of my 4 IUI's resulted in a biochemical pregnancy but came to nothing.

I haven't got a clue where to start and whether i could get some done by doctor.  I would be very grateful for any advice as i don't want to have a 5th cycle the same as the 4 before to get the same outcome.

I would really appreciate any advice/comments.

Thanks
Tracey


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## nicky30 (Sep 23, 2003)

Tracey

I am really sorry to hear you have had another BFN. I got my second BFN today (have also had 6 neg Clomid cycles in the past too) and am seriously considering testing before we continue any further as I have had really good cycles but just no implantation.

Will be really interested to read the responses to this thread.

Good luck to you for the future.

Nicky xx


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## Tracey L (Jul 7, 2003)

Hi Nicky

I am very sorry to hear about your BFN, it's hard going isn't it.  I can only hope and pray that we get what we are trying so hard for in the not so distant future.  In the meantime we have to get up, dust ourselves off and prepare for the next round.

I went to my doctors yesterday to ask about further tests and although she said they can't do anything she said when we go to the hospital we have to be firm and not just accept what they say.  When we had the 3rd failure the consultant said they can't control what happens after the embies are put back and if they could he would be a very rich man.  My doctor said that i should ask about immunology testing and get their advice before embarking on these tests as they can be quite expensive.

When i got my recent BFN the nurse said that they might do a womb biopsy and that they could run tests if i had miscarriages, but isn't there a thin line between early miscarriages and lack of implantation as the embies are trying to implant but for some reason can't.

Sorry to waffle on but i am determined to get answers and i am not willing to start 5th IVF cycle with no change as to put ourselves through the whole thing to get the same disappointing outcome is heartbreaking.

I hope you will start to feel better soon and i wish you all the luck in the world with your future treatments.

Take care
Tracey X


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## zoe w (Feb 16, 2004)

Hi Girls,

Sorry to hear about all your previous negatives.  We have just had our 3rd BFN back in April, however I found it much easier this time round as the 2nd time started off as a BFP, which resulted in a BFN within a week.
Anyway I had a consultation a few weeks back and went armed with lots of paperwork that I had printed from Dr Allan Beers web page.  I did a fair bit of reading beforehand, so that I knew what I was talking about and asking for.  After a fairly long consultation we were both sent for chromosonal analysis blood test, then I had some further tests for the NK cells and ANA antibodies.  She also spoke about a womb biopsy, which I have not opted for just yet, as she wasn't sure it would be very useful.  Not sure that any of these tests will give us the answer or the result which we are all looking for, but I think it's best to know before you go ahead with another cycle.

Good luck to you all

Zoexxx


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## Tracey L (Jul 7, 2003)

Hi Zoe

I am so sorry to hear of the bad time you have had. I can only imagine the heartache you have been through and hope and pray that you get there some time soon, everthing crossed for you!!

My clinic mentioned maybe me having a wonb biopsy so maybe look into that.  I will ask my consultant about the chromosonal analysis blood tests and NK cells and ANA antibodies test and hope that throws something up because the worst bit is not knowing why it fails time after time.  I have mild pco but was told that shouldn't make a difference.  There is also a history of miscarriages in my family so i will mention that as well.  I did the questionnaire on repro-med.net and my score was 2 and it advises that i may need immunology testing, so hoping my consultant is not against these tests.

Good luck to you all in your forthcoming treatments, and here's hoping for lots of BFP's.

Take care
Tracey
x


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## nicky30 (Sep 23, 2003)

Hi Tracey and Zoe

I was really interested to read your posts. 

Tracey - Good luck for your tests

Zoe - Good luck for your results

I am not even sure at the moment how to get referred for tests as I am about to switch clinics and my preferred clinic isn't into immunology. I know a few girls locally who have had the tests though so am going to pick their brains about how they got referred.

I am so sorry for all you have both been through with your repeated BFNs. I hope your tests hold some answers for you and you get a BFP in the near future.

Good luck

Nicky x


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## Jake (Jun 9, 2003)

Hi Tracey, Nicky and Zoe
So sorry to read about your BFNs - it doesn't get any easier does it?  You may also want to have a look at the following link on the ff website http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18104.0.html which is part 1 and there is now a part 2. You may have already spotted it. The thread relates to another website http://www.multiplemiscarriage.com/index.php which is the home of Dr Carter, a man who is looking into multiple miscarriage and ivf implantation failure. Have a look at the message board (free to access as a guest) where he offers debate and education about the whole subject of immunology. Some of the questions and answers offered to people may well be of help and you could always pose a question.He is an immunologist through and through, rather than a fertility specialist with an interest in immunology, with a brain the size of a planet (apologies to The Hitch Hiker's Guide) and a heart to match! At the moment I know he is collaborating with the Lister and I think the ARGC, both in London - but he may well be working with others in the UK as word of his method and treatment option spreads.
He offers honest opinion and when he thinks he can be of no help then he will say so. Although our issue is MF (severe antibodies and morphology problem) I was also found at one stage (not now though!) to have antiphospholipid antibodies and slightly raised NKC needing aspirin, heparin and steroids. Unfortunately this still did not work for us but we did have a short BFP after FET of 2 blasts. I am still on aspirin, but recently had some tests that Dr Carter has developed to retest my immune system and it seems that I am now OK (even my own GP and local NHS hospital have retested my APAs which are now normal!) However he advises retesting 10-14 days after ET to see if your immune system is responding abnormally  - I've got to go in at the end of next week Eeeeek! 

Good luck girls. I hope one day we all achieve our dream.
Love Jakex


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## nicky30 (Sep 23, 2003)

Thanks Jake

That was really useful  

Nicky x


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## ask4help (Oct 29, 2002)

Hello to you all,

I have had 3 failed IVF attempts.  Each time I have apparently had good, strong embryos transferred on day 2 or 3.  I had been hoping to go for my 4th attempt when my Dr suggested I have a hysteroscopy to clarify the state of my uterus.  I have had the hysteroscopy today on day 20 of my natural cycle which is round about the time in nature that an embryo would be trying to embed itself into the womb lining.  

The hysteroscopy takes exact pictures of the uterus and its lining, which I saw on the screen and even as  a complete novice I could understand everything I saw, unlike ultrasound which I can't make head nor tail of. 

My uterus has been found to have a normal lining in places and to be abnormally thick in other places.  Apparently if an embryo were released into my uterus and it tried to (or actually did) embed in the abnormally thick parts of the lining, it would not succeed as the lining is described as 'greedy' and is taking all the oxygen and blood supply for itself to keep it nice and thick -horrible, selfish lining!  

Without having had the benefit of this test, I would have happily gone ahead with yet another cycle of IVF, which in all probability would have failed due to the state of my uterus lining.  

We were going to allow any embryos we had to go to blastocyst stage and my Dr said that even doing that would only have given me a 10% chance of conception.  However my Dr has prescribed me Provera tablets to take for 3 months in the hope that this will thin the lining of my womb ready for yet another cycle of IVF.  He has told me that he believes my chances of conception (subject to achieving blastocysts) will be 25% after taking the provera.  Obviously everything is subject to my body responding to the provera as it should - fingers crossed.

Although I am disappointed that my Dr has found something wrong, it is a relief that I now know what exactly is going on inside me.

I also had a biopsy taken of the lining for analysis which will take 10 days to come back - fingers crossed.

I wonder whether you could raise the possibility of having a hysteroscopy with your Dr to gain some clarity as to the actual condition of your uterus?  It is just a thought.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the very best of luck.
Kind regards.
Nadine


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## Tracey L (Jul 7, 2003)

Hello Jake

Thanks so much for that information, it is very interesting.  I wish you all the luck in the world with yo0ur treatment.  Take Care. Tracey

Hello Nadine

I am pleased that you are making some headway and hope that the Provera tablets work their magic for you.  I will ask my doctor about a hysteroscopy etc and see what they can arrange for me.  They have already mentioned a womb biopsy.  
I will keep everything crossed for you and hope 4th time is your time and you get a BFP!!!  Take care  Tracey


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## ask4help (Oct 29, 2002)

Hi Tracey,

Just to let you know the hysteroscopy biopsy result has returned as 'unremarkable' - the Dr's words not mine!  Fancy having an unremarkable uterus, we thought it was a great way to say everything must be OK!  So another hurdle over and few more to tackle yet.  I will keep you posted with progress.

It has been suggested that I go to Paddington to have some blood tests done I think for immunology, but we simply can't afford it.  The tests would costs around £500-£600.  We simply don't have the money.

Enough of me - how are you doing with all your investigations?

Good luck
Nadinex


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## Tracey L (Jul 7, 2003)

Hi Nadine

Hope you are feeling ok and positive for your treatment.  It makes me laugh when they suggest various tests and the money issue isn't a problem - if only!!  Is there anywhere else you could get these tests done a bit cheaper, it's maddening isn't it as it is not your fault.

I saw the consultant and she asked me where do we go from her, i thought you tell me, you're the doctor.  She dismissed a womb biopsy and hysteroscopy as she said it was not suitable for me.  She was also sceptical about immune tests.  She did agree to repeating my fsh, lh etc blood tests as the last time i had them done was about 7 years ago.  After a long discussion she agreed to book me in for a 5th cycle and mentioned that they will try extra drugs - aspirin, steroids etc so hopefully that will make a difference.  I have never got embryos suitable for storage as they are fragmented so not sure if i am wasting my time.  If this cycle has no change i will consider moving clinics and then paying for immune tests, although god knows where i will get the money from.

I have droned on enough about me.  You didn't say when your 4th cycle was.  I hope and pray that number 4 is the one for you.  Let me know how you are getting on.

Take care
Tracey x


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## wynnster (Jun 6, 2003)

Hi Girls

I have been reading your posts with interest and thought i'd post a reply.

You can see me history below so i wont bore you with it now but from the results of my recent lap and dye (which revieled my left tube is patent) i have started to think more and more along the immunolgy route, i have read lots of baffling information (provided by a good FF  ) and thought this link may be of interest to you 
https://www.repro-med.net/tests/immtest.php

It tells you at the end if you should have immunology screening. My result came back as Yes, but i expected that anyway.

I've spoken to ARGC who deal with Immunology and they seem to agree that this would be the course or action, I have today been along to my GP to speak to him and get some bloods done on the NHS  he basically said that i'm throwing my money away and of course the tests will come back positive these people are making money out of me  not what i wanted to here!!! So i told him that if i'm willing to pay then he shouldnt have any problems with it!!!! He was ok about it all in the end and had no problems in doing the usual FSH, LH etc for me.

I hope the address above is of use to you

Wishing you all the best on your journey's

Kim xxxx


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## Tracey L (Jul 7, 2003)

Hi Kim

Thanks so much for that link, i did it and it said that i should look into immunology testing too.

It maddens me that the doctors just dismiss it.  There has to be some truth in these tests as the success rate is alot higher in the clinics that carry out these tests and treat the problem.

I have just had the FSH, LH etc. tests done and am due to start 5th IVF cycle in July, not sure if i am wasting my time but at least if it doesn't work i will have no choice but to have immune tests etc. done.  Cross that bridge when/if we come to it.

Where are you at with your treatment, are you going to wait until you get your FSH, LH levels back and then consider immune tests.  I know there is another clinic in london that carries out these tests and apparently it is a little cheaper.  I think it is miscarriageclinic.co.uk and apparently they treat women with recurrent miscarriages and recurrent IVF failure so has to be worth a look.

I wish you all the luck in the world with your forthcoming tests/treatment.  Let me know how you get on.

Take care
Tracey  x


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## sambez (Jul 26, 2004)

hi there i just got my results of my ivf which were not a surprise  .


My AF started on Friday but its very very light compared to usual, is that normal? i expected it to be heavy because of the drugs thickening my womb lining more there would be more to lose if that makes any sense at all.  Another thing was on saturday i had a thing on my tampon looked like a big piece of chicken fat   (Sorry tmi) anyone else had that? it freaked me out. 

love

Sam

XXx


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## Angelbabywood (May 11, 2005)

Hi Sam

All I can say is I bled like there was no tomorrow and Sorry for the TMI but I had very big clots etc.  I have had a show since then and I think the chicken fat kind of thing is just CM with a bit of colour.

Hope this has helped a bit.

love Kerry xx


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## yanni (May 9, 2005)

Hello ladies
It has been a real eye opener reading all your letters, I have just had a  after my 5th attempt    and am now determind to find out whats going on inside, I cannot face another failure. Time is running out for me! Over the past 12 years I have had 14 beautiful embryos replaced and not one has taken surely theres something wrong. I have an appointment with my consultant at the end of the month can anyone give me some questions as I don't know where to start.
Love jackie


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## jo and adam (Oct 2, 2005)

hi everyone 
yes we just had our 1st failed ivf both found really hard to deal with   feel a bit in limbo now ,our next step is fet been told to phone up when ready for next consultation ,don't really know much about it .it has been four weeks now starting to feel a little normality has anyone else been in similar situation


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## Ellie.st (Mar 11, 2005)

Really sorry to hear about your BFN.  We have been there too and know what it feels like.  It does start getting easier as time goes by, however.  You do have a FET ahead, however, (which alot of couples don't get the chance of) so focus on that. There are lots of stories on the site of successful FETs, so fingers crossed for you.

The other thing to bear in mind is that a first cycle is very much trial and error.  The next time round your clinic will have the history of your first cycle to go on - well worth getting feedback from them on how the first cycle went and what they might do differently next time.  We went with a huge list of questions after our first cycle and found asking them really helpful. I've also been told by our clinic that the chances of success during second and third cycles are higher than for first cycles.  But hopefully your FET will work, and you won't have to think about this!!!!

Anyway, look after each other in the meantime - and don't give up hope.

Good luck.

Ellie


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## casey (Sep 26, 2004)

Hi jo and adam - sorry about your bfn - its hard and you must feel gutted -lots of people here have been in your situation and understand how you ahve felt and are feeling now - the 1st ivf is often trial and error and you may get better results 2nd time round such as no of eggs, frozen embies etc 
you might want to take a look thru the boards to see threads on questions to ask your consultant as well as clinic reviews etc - the best thing about this site is it has helped me to be proactive and feel supported at the time 
good luck with your appointment
caseyx


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

Hi there

I know how you feel as I had a BFN from my first IVF two weeks ago.  IT is devastating and I am so, so sorry for you.   

I have decided to try again immediately (can't have FET as I had no frosties) and am feel positive that I am doing something constructive...this is my way of coping in most situations!  I think you should hold on to the fact that you have some little frosties waiting for you and that is a miracle in itself.  I hope you find the strength to start again soon.

Lots of love
Allison xx


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## kazwhelo (Sep 27, 2005)

Good luck Jo & Adam with your FET!!

We only got 2 embies on our 1st ICSI - so no FET for us - but we know how you feel! hang in there!

Good luck everyone!!


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## jo and adam (Oct 2, 2005)

hi only me a big thankyou to all your advise and thoughts it really does help .at the time i didn't think but we are very lucky to have our little frosties waiting .want to wish everyone all the luck in the future.


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## zora (Sep 30, 2005)

Hi Jo and Adam. Sorry about your news. we too had our 1st failed IVF 2 weeks ago. At 1st there was a complete feeling of devastation but it gets better with time. We did not get any FETs but it's good that you at least have that as another option. IVF is tough it will take a while to recover mentally and physically. We will try again in Jan . Look after yourself and good luck with future success. 
Z


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## lilac123 (Mar 14, 2005)

Hi Jo and Adam

Very sorry to hear about your failed cycle. 

Our first cycle also failed in August/September, but like you we had some embryos in the freezer.

Our way of coping with the disappointment was to focus on this.

I was told I could have FET after one natural period, although some hospitals prefer for you to wait for two. The hospital left it up to us to make the moves when we felt ready and I had the embryo transfer last week.

The FET thread is quite helpful, but don't be frightened to ask your hospital for more info, as every centre seems to have slightly different procedures and medication.

Hope this helps - and good luck!

Love
Lilac


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## tayllyn (Nov 2, 2005)

Hi jo and Adam

Sorry to hear about your failed ivf attempt. Me and my dh are also in the same position after our first cycle. Luckily like you we are able to go for fet although we have decided to leave it til after xmas. Need to have a drink!

Just remember to go with any questions that you want answered and we're wishing you all the luck in world for ure next attempt.

tayllyn


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## jayb (Apr 22, 2005)

Hi I have just had my first failed IVF, unfortuantely I have to go through everything again as we did not get any frosties. but we hope to try again in February. Have a follow up appointment booked for the 19th December.

 to you all.

Jaybxx


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## Jess75 (Nov 4, 2005)

I just had my first icsi - only got 4 eggs, 1 fertalised, then bfn - it was 4 weeks ago too but I seem to be dipping in mood again - I miss my emby so so badly - I feel useless at the moment xx


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi- I'm looking for some advice.  I have now had 4 IVF cycles (see below) - still no baby. I went straight to IVF after having just a few basic blood tests as I felt like I was getting too old to hang around (I've just turned 36).  I'm not really sure what to do.  I'll probably ask for a follow up appointment with my clinic but I reckon they'll just say 'try again'. 

Does anyone have any suggestions about what I could do now?  I know you're not doctors but there are a lot of woment out there with a great deal of knowledge.

Any advice would be most appreciated.
Halo
X


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## Reb (Mar 27, 2004)

Hi Halo,  I'm sorry you have had 4 bfns.

I dont know what tests you have had done so I am probably suggesting things that your clinic has already done.

Does your clinic check your womb lining to ensure it is thick enough ?  If it is nt, there are drugs you can take to help this along.

Do you know what condition your tubes are in ?  I ask this because sometimes they can fill with fluid which can be harmful to any embryos.

You could ask for a doppler scan to check out your uterus for any polyps etc.  This also shows how good your blood flow is to your unterus.  I had one earlier this yr and it cost, I think, about £300, but it is very useful.  It can also check if you have any fluid in your tubes.  I think this only applies if your tubes are blocked though.

Have you had a chat with the embryologist about your embryos ?  If not, you may find this helpful.  It may be worth considering changing clinics.  I am not knocking your clinic, it's just that clinics do vary and this one may not be the one for you.

I hope I have nt worried you.  We have failed 3 fresh ivfs and have been going through the same thought process.  Though now I guess my age is now becoming ab obvious factor  

Good luck.

Love

Becca
x


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## fiona1 (Feb 2, 2005)

Hi,

Have you had a hysteroscopy? I have heard that it's reccommended you have one after a few failed attempts. Both times i had one i got pg the following cycle.

Good luck

fiona


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## Abby Carter (Sep 28, 2004)

Halo, 

I've been having acupuncture during my tx, with someone who specialises in fertility problems. I have weekly sessions and have to drink disgusting herbs, but they improve bloodflow to the uterus which seems fairly essential. We got a positive on our first cycle (with grade 2 embryos, so I wasn't particularly hopeful). I found having acupuncture relaxing, and I was able to do 'visualisation' of my embies settling in, which in other circumstances I find quite difficult. 

I can't prove it helped us get a positive result and sustain the pregnancy (unfortunately we lost our little one at 3 months, but it was for entirely different reasons). But I've carried on having acupuncture during my second cycle, as I still find it really beneficial. 

It's not for everyone, but it might be worth considering.

Good luck to you,
Abby
x


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## reikilisa (Jun 14, 2005)

Hi Halo

I'm so sorry that you have had to go through 4 negatives  ,  I know going through just one was hard enough.  I like yourself have Unexplained intertility and a'm going to be 37 next May so know exactly where your coming from with the age thing as i feel like time is slipping away.
The one thing that i could suggest is at my clinic they have sent me for tests to see if i am having problems with implantation due to the ivf not working and  i had a previous miscarriage so maybe you could look into this route.
Hope i've helped a little bit
Wishing you lots of luck and babydust
love lisa x


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## Ellie.st (Mar 11, 2005)

Dear Halo
Have you had any testing for blood clotting problems, immune issues or a karotyping  test (looking at your chromosomes and DH's/DP's) ?  If not, there is alot of information on this site (Immunology and Investigations board) including a really helpful post from Daisy G with a list of blood tests which can be done either by your GP or your clinic.  I took the list along to my GP and clinic and I am just in the process of getting results from a whole batch of tests.  Not sure if we will be any wiser at the end but at least the results we have had so far have ruled out some possible problems.

PS: you're not that old at 36 - the success rates don't start dipping that much until you are nearer 40!  (I'm speaking from experience at the very ancient age of 41!).

Good luck

Ellie


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## bev22 (May 14, 2004)

Hi everyone
i tested this morning after my 3rd IVF and got another negative. I am totally numb at the moment as i really thought it would be 3rd time lucky. There is no sign of AF and i actually have lost alot of the AF pains i was having.  I suffer from high FSH but have been lucky to get to the 2ww 3 times,once with just 1 embryo on board and twice with two grade 1/2s on board. i am going to ring care this morning to book my follow up appointment and was wondering whether anyone can give me any advice as to whether i should ask for more tests etc? i suffer from endo and on this cycle was on steriods/clomid/menopur with clexane injections for the 2WW and aspirin. is there any tests for repeated implanation failure? my fertilisation rate is good and husbands sperm is ok.

to stop myself getting to down i need to start planning ahead with something to aim for and would appreciate any words of wisdom or advice - i feel my body keeps letting me  down! 

many thank for taking the time to read
love Bev


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## reikilisa (Jun 14, 2005)

Dear Bev

Sorry for your BFN   I know exactly what your goingthrough  as have had my 2nd ivf bfn on wednesday.  Both ivfs i have had 2 x grade 1's on board too so finding it hard to see why it didnt work again   its like your body just doesnt do what you want it to do.

I was sent for implantation tests before this ivf and they found i had a blood clotting disorder,  this resulted in me being prescribed clexane which i had to inject daily but unfortunately this did not do the trick this time.

you may want to ask your clinic to check your blood clotting or immune issues?

Well i hope i've been of some help
love Lisa x


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## saphy75 (Mar 15, 2004)

Bev & Lisa sooo sorry    words are quite meaningless at this time but just wanted you both to know i am thinking about you  

pam xx


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## Kelsey (Nov 8, 2004)

Bev, so so sorry to read your sad news     

After I suffered my third failure last year, by chance, a series of blood tests I had done thru my GP unrelated to IF showed I had Anti Nuclear Antibodies. When I told my consultant this at my follow up in Jan, she said ANA can interfere with implantation and referred me to Dr Coulam in Chicago. 

Dr Coulam arranged for me to have implantation failure and thromophilia panel tests, which were done here and then sent via Fed Ex to the Millenova lab in Chicago. The test reults showed that I have some problems with my DNA and 3 genes have mutated... MTHFR, FACTOR X111 and PAI-1, and apparently this can negatively effect implantation. The interpretation on the lab report read "significant effects on pregnancy related disorder..."  

I've had a phone consultation with Dr Coulam who says to combat the negative effects of the genes I'll have to take metformin, high dose folic acid and our embryo's will need to be cultured in a specific medium. If I hadn't found out this and gone for another cycle I would have suffered another failure and not known why  So at least now we know what the problem is we can hopefully move forward and stand a better chance next time round  

Maybe it would be worth you having these done too, to see if there's any reason why you've been so unlucky... coz if you know there's a reason, you'll be able to get it sorted, which will help make it 4th time lucky  

Lisa, so so sorry to hear your sad news too     

Take Care, 

LOL Nat xxx


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## bev22 (May 14, 2004)

Hi
thank you all for your replies and advice. we hve our follow up appointment with care in May so i have lots of questions now to ask and suggestions.  i really want to have another go with my own eggs in july as i have had grade 1/2 embroyos so although they may say that because my fsh is high and i am not a brilliant responder i got 2 good embryos to put back and whether i only got 3 eggs at egg collection or 10 eggs you can only have two put back anyway.  i am also going to ask him about my endo and whether i need to have anything done before our next go.

again thank you for your comments and suggestions 

Bev


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## sukey (Apr 1, 2006)

Hello everyone,
I've recently had my 4th BFN following IVF.  I'm really now wondering what to do next.  I'm 45 but have had really good responses to 300 Gonal F (or so the doctors tell me - apparently better response than they expected), with 16 eggs/7 embryos,  11 eggs/7 embryos,  13 eggs/6 embryos and 13 eggs/9 embryos.  The last attempt seems the best of all and also AF was later to arrive on that attempt.  I don't know whether this is because I started to take DHEA about 6 weeks before EC but it almost seems like my body is learning what to do (or am I just being too hopeful!).

I know that the statistics are really low for any chance of success and that my best is with donor eggs but I really haven't quite got my head round DEs yet although I keep trying to get used to the idea.  I never thought that I would go beyond 4 goes at IVF but now that I've had 4 I find that I'm not ready to give up yet.    I'm considering going abroad for treatment where they may do PGD.  Does anyone know anything about this or where I could go or what I can do to maximise my chances of success?

I'm so pleased to see so many BFPs for over 40s on this site.  Its just so encouraging.
Loads of babydust to everyone.
Sukey


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## Ellie.st (Mar 11, 2005)

Dear Sukey

Really sorry to hear about your BFN.  I don't have any suggestions myself but see that you haven't had any responses yet and wondered if you have tried posting on the Investigations and Immunology board of this site about DHEA and PGD?

Best wishes

Ellie


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## Brighton (May 8, 2006)

Hi Sukey,

I am sorry to read about your situation, and wondered if you had approached your clinic about Pre Genetic Selection? It is supposed to be able to overcome some of the difficulties associated with maternal age, by finding the best possible eggs. It is very expensive though, about six thousand pounds, but if you can afford it, it may worth looking into.

I am 41, and I am going to try it, due to repeated miscarriage.

Best of luck to you, and I hope you soon have success.

Brighton


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Hi hunny bunny x

I'm 41 & down regging in prep for frozen donor embryo.

Looking at your response to gonal f. it's fantastic hun... honestly!   Keep trying.

I was told 2 years ago that my eggies were crap & went for a donor egg cycle... problem was that the recipients eggs were of worse quality than my own. I ended up with  1 cell egg that just didn't go anywhere. So now going to try donor embryo. 

Please don't dispair or give up.... i've seen much younger woman have worse results.

Best wishes  Jan


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## Megan10 (Jul 16, 2004)

Hi Sukey,
First of all let me say how sorry I am to hear of your repeated IVF negatives. I find myself in exactly the same position as you. I am 40 now with 4 failures behind me (one a short-lived positive). Like you I have always had eggs and good embies but no success.
I too feel I am not quite ready to give up but reluctant to keep going for more of the same. 
In my case I rarely have more than 3 good embies by day 2 transfer (6 was a record response for us last time) so PGD is of little use as we don't have enough to 'chose ' the best.
So I have done alot of research into immunological issues and latsest research. We are off to CARE in Nottingham next month for consultations and probably full level 1 tests plus Chicago Tests. CARE have a number of clinics across the country and in London ARGC does the same as does Lister to a lesser degree (not NK Killer cells if I am correct). There does seem to be some evidence that this can help in the case of repeated failure to implant. We have decided not to pursue donor eggs so for us its the last step before we say we really did try everything and retire from the race with our heads held high! 
I called CARE and they sent through a really excellent summary of Immunological Issues and potential tests and treatments. Really worth a read. 
Loads of luck Sukey with whatveer you decide, 
Love MeganXXXX


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## sadcow (Jun 20, 2006)

I am sorry to hear about your failures look at www.haveababy.com Dr. Sher in Las vegas and New York is supposed to be an expert in getting old ladies with long IVF pasts pregnant first go! I am thinking of going over there. I am 43. It is really really really expensive.

Good Luck!

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.UK or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## Lena9 (Apr 6, 2008)

Hi
I was in the ACU at Guys yesterday for our day 2 scan and found the note about Guys Chit Chat page.  Can't believe I havn't seen it before.  I/ve been with Guys now for 4 years and about to embark on our 9th cycle.  Im 40 and did get pregnant on our 6th cycle but very very sadly had to terminate at 12 weeks.  How unlucky is that then!!  Having chatted to other friends and see the numerous comments on this site about all the different tests I am starting to think that I haven't really had any tests and that I am missing out on something obvious by being at Guys.  Can any body advise me?  Basically we always respond well, get a good number of eggs, always get good embryos but...... they just seem to refuse to stick!  My husband is convinced that Khalaf and his team will get us pregnant again without the expense, but more importantly the stress of daily testing (as at the ARGC) and endless drugs to treat what they find.  But I am getting old now and don't ever want to think that I didn't try everything possible out there (within reason).  I have started to have accupuncture which I love.  So far it seems to have cured every other ailment I have so I live in hope it will be our answer this time.  I like guys - it is convenient, I really like the staff (especially Maria and Regina, two of the nurses) but it is getting a bit depressing having had 3 female consultants all have babies in the time we have been trying whilst I have yet to have one!    I am wrestling in my mind as to whether now is the time to go for it completely at somewhere like the ARGC or sit tight at Guys.  ARGC will cost me 3 times what I pay at Guys which is 3 fewer cycles ....... I am in such a muddle.  Anyone else out there like me wondered if they were missing something by being at Guys (who seem to do as few tests as possible - on me anyway) or been elsewhere but preferred Guys


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## wishing4miracle (Sep 7, 2006)

oh lovey i just wanted to give you a  

9 cycles is alot of cycles lovey   you are one strong lady to keep on going.good on you i say.the thing is if they havnt really done any tests after 9 cycles you have to start questioning why they havnt.have they done no immunes at all??i think you should be tested for immunes.as you say everythings fine up untill you put them back and they dont stick.have you not thought about changing clinics??yes you may know the staff and think theyre ok but maybe you both need to change clinic as they prob will look into things alot more especially at the argc.

hope you get some better feed back then me soon 

hayley


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## Lena9 (Apr 6, 2008)

Thanks Hayley.  I know deep down that I need to go somewhere else.  I suppose also deep down I don't want someone to tell me that there is a problem that can't be cured.  Equally I know that someone might tell me there is an answer.  So...... I am keeping everything crossed for this cycle.   I grew up at a house number 9 - so I like to think of it as a lucky number.  Maybe this one will be the one.  And if not, I will bite the bullet and go to the ARGC. Anyone else recommend the Lister?  Do they test for immunes?


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## HollyB (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi Lena,

Firstly   to you. 9 cycles cannot have been easy to cope with.

Why don't you just book a consultation with the ARGC. They will almost definitely do the immune testing - which isn't cheap, but it will at least give you some more information. If the tests are clear, then at least you have that information. Obviously, if they find an issue then you will need to make a decision as to whether to change clinics or not. But at least you will do that with some extra information.

Good luck with your decision.

Holly


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## wishing4miracle (Sep 7, 2006)

maybe the number 9 is a lucky number for you   i hope so lovey  

as for the lister i dont know about immune stuff but they are a lovely bunch there.im an egg sharer there and done 3 cycles.theyre all nice and make sure they look after you and check everything during your cycle.they can be abit expensive i do believe but i think most clinics are if youre paying fully.


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## Lena9 (Apr 6, 2008)

Think I will contact the ARGC tomorrow.  Just in case this one doesn't work.......  Thanks for your guidance.  Just need to persuade the other half (who is the most wonderful husband in the world by the way) 

People keep telling me I am strong.  But if you don't keep trying and being positive.... well, I can't begin to think of not being that way!  Thank God my parents dragged me up to always think on the positive side of things, have an aim and an objective, and to never give up.  Thanks Mum and Dad!!


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2008)

Hi 

I sooooo know how you feel - as you can see from my signatuire I am on round 10!....I found it so hard to leave my first clinic after 5 geos (I cried!) but once I was in the system I knew I'd done the right thing - it is just nice to have a fresh approach and to feel that you are trying new ways etc...As you can see I have tried ARGC and am currently at The Lister - both are excellent but entirely different in their approaches. I think the right one for you depends a lot on your personal and tx history (which I've forgotten sorry!) PM me if i can help further 

xxx


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## chandelle (Mar 28, 2007)

Lena - have you spoken to Guys about immune testing and what else they might be able to do for you? I had a very good follow up there after my two failed cycles with Dr. Arri Coomarasamy - he was very knowledgeable on all the different methods used at ARGC and elsehwere (whilst dismissing many of them) but he said Guys could pursue and interpret immune testing for me if i chose to do so. 

I was in the same quandry after two cycles (both poor responses, one cancelled before ER) about whether to switch or not. I decided i'd stay with Guys because by my reckoning i didn't believe that ARGC or somewhere else could give me a three times better chance for the money, plus ARGC success rates for my age group were virtually identical to those of Guys. It all has to do with your gut feeling (or your diagnosis) about why you aren't getting pregnant and for me i felt it was more of a chance thing than any particular aspect of the treatment. I might have felt differently after 8 cycles though, that maybe change for change's sake could help. Also, have you had consultant- led treatment there at all? 

The positive thing though is that you are having good responses

amazingly i did become pregnant naturally right after Guys gave me a 5% chance of my third IVF being a success... miracles happen.

best wishes for your current treatment!!


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## chandelle (Mar 28, 2007)

also just wanted to mention there is a Guys thread on this board where you can talk more to ladies undergoing treatment there. you're definitely not the only one that feels there may not be enough testing and monitoring there ...


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

Lena - My clinic is not very good with testing either but I finally got some done privately, for my first 3 cycles I was classed as unexplained, after my tests I found out that I am MTHFR homozygous (I am taking high folic acid and Vit B6 and 12 for that), I am hypothyroid ( Levothyroxine) and I have high natural killer cells (steroids and IVIG). This is my first cycle with all these 'extras' paid for privately while the cycle is NHS. While that does not give me any guarantees at least now I have a chance.  Personally I do not understand how any clinic can just let you go through that many cycles without suggesting any tests. Good luck with your cycle


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## Lena9 (Apr 6, 2008)

Thanks everyone for your responses - they really help. I hadn't tried accupuncture until about 3 months ago and my accupuncturist is convinced that this is going to do the trick.   But IF it isn't I am going to get my self tested from top to toe.

Nikki - you mentioned you got yours done privately whilst staying in the NHS?  Can you let me know how you did that / what youd recommend?

Oh well - scan on Monday morning and I know for sure that I have follicles - I can feel them and I look about 3 months pregnant I feel so swollen.  Here's hoping it is lovely follicles and not cysts or something else and that we get healthy embryo's as we usually do.  All I need then is the miracle cure for making them stick!!


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## AAA (Jun 9, 2005)

Hi 

I just read your post and feel I could have almost written it myself!  

I was with guys for 4 years - had 7 cycles and like you had really good response (had 2 bfn, 2 very early miscarriages and 3 biochemical pregnancy).  We kept being told that it should work for us and they didn't know why it was not working.  We became very used to guys and regina and maria were definitely my favourite nurses - they are lovely.  We really liked Mr Khalaf.

We felt however that we just kept doing the same thing and nothing was changing but were very hesitant about going to another clinic as we felt that guys would be able to do it for us.  However, as we were coming to the end of the road we decided we didn't want to leave any stone unturned and  moved to the argc.  We transferred frozen embyros from guys and amazingly they got us pregnant but we were advised not to continue the pregnancy when we go to 12 weeks which was devastating.  This was nothing to do with ARGC and it did really look like they'd done something differently for us.

We have just done a fresh cycle at the argc which miscarried at just over 6 weeks.  We are waiting to go back for a follow up and just don't know what to do next as we feel that we've got 'so near but so far'.  

The ARGC is a completely different experience - much more time consuming and I found it more stressful with all the tests and things done on a daily basis.  However, I do feel that they did do something differently for me and maybe the IVIG and steroids were what I needed or maybe it was just luck (and then very bad luck)?  I would definitely go and see them and see what they have to say.  It can take a while to get the initial appointment.

Anyway lots and lots of luck for this cycle with guys and fingers crossed you won't need to go elsewhere


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## Lena9 (Apr 6, 2008)

Wow - You have gone through the mill even more than we have!  To get so close so many times...... I know how devastated we were at 12 weeks.  You think by that point it is all going to be fine don't you.  I have a friend who as a similar story to us.  However she has just had her 20 week scan and touch wood, this time, all seems to be going to plan!

Can I ask what it was the ARGC diagnosed?  What tests did they do and what is your treatment?  I think I have managed to stay so sane simply because Guys keeps everything so simple....but maybe too simple.

We have a scan tomorrow morning and hopefully by this time next week we will have 3 embryos back in.  This time I am goint to take 3 or 4 days off work and literally lie around doing nothing.  And that is something I find the hardest.  I am just not someone who can sit on my backside.  

Sending you all the luck in the world - whatever you decide to do next.  Im just not ready to give up yet!


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## AAA (Jun 9, 2005)

Hi Lena

It is difficult to say what they diagnosed really, I had blocked fallopian tubes so the main problem was obvious but they did do all the immune testing.  They said one thing was slightly high from the immune testing (I can't remember what) and on the frozen cycle they gave me IVIG and prednisolone and this time IVIG.  That was the main difference to Guys really, plus all the blood tests and changing of medication does daily.  I am going back next week for a follow up and have a feeling we will be doing one final cycle but we'll just have to see what they say.

Wishing you loads and loads of luck for the next few weeks and fingers crossed that no 9 is the lucky one for you.

x


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

very sorry to hear of your 9 cycles. 

i am not sure sure why they haven't taken things a step further though. more of the same sounds unusual especially as you get good fert etc and are now not 22. 

i was similar - good blasts, 100%fert and decided it was down to immunes or poor eggs (Im 39). one never can tell chromosome quality. So, I said to my clinic: i cannot afford all the immune etc tests, pls give me steroids and clexane regardless, which they did. I have since had my immunes done at the lister - basic tests that showed I was v high on NK cells and cytoxicity.

my view of argc is that for me, all the daily stuff isn't necessary BUT i do think they're on to something with the implantation interaction and immune stuff. many many women have trouble getting pg and then almsot immediately manage it again the second time round even though they are older etc.

there's something in it. 
you should probably also have all sorts of compatibility tests done between you adn your husband. it's possible there's an issue there instead of immunes.    

very best of luck, 

anna xxx


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

I got my tests done at the http://www.miscarriageclinic.co.uk/ with Dr *******.

/links


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

congrats Nikki!! now please please do tell us, what is the secret?!


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

Anna - if only I knew. I did lots of stuff differently this time. As you can see from my signature I was on DHEA for 4 months prior to stimming and my embryo quality was much better, I lowered the dose from 300 to 225 Gonal F and I did an immune protocol, also had hypnotherapy and acupuncture. I also increased folic acid to 5mg and now take high Vit B6 and 12 and no coffee because of MTHFR. Early days yet...


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

thanks very much - interesting, what was your immune protocol?


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

Anna - Dr ******* prescribed it, 40 mg steroids, IVIG one day before transfer (I left it a little late I think) 40 mg clexane, baby aspirin. I forgot that this was also the first cycle that I got treated for being hypothyroid, my TSH was too high.


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## Lena9 (Apr 6, 2008)

Thanks everyone for all your replies.  Unfortunately we were told on Thursday that the 8 eggs that had been collected had all totally failed.  Nothing to put back at all.  I am still in a complete state of shock.  This has never happened before.  So, I have a list of people that I am going to contact, all come with good references and I am going to be tested for everything under the sun so long as the funds allow.  I think my husband is starting to think that we should call it a day but I can't give up just yet -  particularly not having had any tests that seem to work for so many other people.  I am going to contact the ARGC, Michael Rimington at Tunbridge Wells and also George Ndukwe in Nottingham.  If any of you have any experience with Rimington or Ndukwe would be helpful to hear from you.


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

Lena, glad you have come to this view. i think you'll do better elsewhere for various reasons. very best of luck. xxx


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2008)

Lena - I too agree that you are doing the very best thing...it is very sad that you have had so much heartache, I am so sorry   ...but until you know you have tried something different you will never know ....I'd go for ARGC or The Lister - the top 2 in the UK and both excellent in my view - there is no point in going for anything other than the best in your situation (I can say that as it is the same as mine!)

xxx


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

Lena - I am so sorry     but I also think it's to early to give up before you tried a different approach and actually have some tests done. All the best     please let us know how you get on.


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## AAA (Jun 9, 2005)

Lena, I am so, so sorry to hear that it did not work out.  
I think that you are definitely doing the right thing getting advice elsewhere I certainly found it helpful.
Good luck x


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## dancie11 (Aug 31, 2009)

About me:  1st IVF cycle - long protocol using buserelin to down regulate and menopur (150iu two vials) to stimulate, this produced 5 eggs, 4 fertilized but only grew to 4 cells on day 3 and were of poor quality (grade 3) and fragmented.  The best 2 embryos were transferred, but this resulted in a bfn .
2nd IVF cycle - short protocol - menopur (300iu, 4 vials) to stimulate and cetrotide to prevent ovulation.  This produced 3 eggs, 3 fertilized, but again only grew to 4 cells on day 3 and were fragmented (grade 3 again). 2 embryos transferred and again a bfn!  
I have had acupuncture sessions throughout.
We are waiting for our follow up appointment with our consultant, however the fertility nurse at the clinic, suggested that the signs are pointing to an egg problem.  Before considering donor eggs, we want to explore every avenue, and do everything we can to improve our chances of having a successful outcome using my own eggs.


Has anyone had similar cycles, then gone on to have a positive result?  and if so what did you do differently, if anything?


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## TwiceBlessed (Nov 8, 2006)

Hi, sorry to hear about your BFNs

not quite the same but my history is as follows...

cycle 1....long protocol 6 eggs one fertilised but didnt divide
cycle 2 ...failed to downregulate treatment cancelled
cycle 3 ....short protocol 5 eggs 2 fertilized one pregnancy but sadly mmc in Nov 06
cycle 4.....antagonist protocol advised I was getting poor response even early on. For most of stimming had one follie worth anything and was told to cancel as my eggs "obviously" were rubbish and that I should go with donor eggs....Decided to carry on and got 3 eggs (2 decent follies by EC...extended stimms)  and 2 embies...one became DD1 who is going to be 2 in just over 2 weeks.

then somehow, with my rubbish eggs I became pregnant naturally and have a DD2 of 6m.

I am sure someone will come along and advise you re ideas for improving egg quality I just didnt want to read and run and wanted to show you that even if your eggs are poor one cycle it doesnt necessarily automatically mean the death nell on future tx with your own eggs...The only thing I did was to keep my protein up during stimms I think...being veggie I drank a lot of milk...


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## dancie11 (Aug 31, 2009)

Thanks Twice Blessed.  You have given me hope


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## Hollybags (May 7, 2008)

I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, but you may well get a totally different result with a different clinic. There's good reason why there's such a huge disparity in results between the most and least successful clinics - on the face of it they do the same thing with the same kind of patients, but the results vary *hugely*, because of the way in which the administer treatment, monitor patients, and of course the differing skills of the embryologists. One cycle at the most successful clinic can be up to eight times more likely to work than the same treatment at a poor clinic!

Don't give up with your own eggs until you've had a couple of decent second opinions from the best clinics - even if you decide not to be treated there, you'll be moving forward having had the best advice. 
Hope this helps x x


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## TwiceBlessed (Nov 8, 2006)

actually I kind of agree with hollybags too not only because of the tx itself but also the atmosphere and how you feel may have an affect on the effectiveness of it. I did get a bfp at my first clinic but found the experience a lot less  stressful (even though I was responding worse) at my new one.


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## dancie11 (Aug 31, 2009)

Thanks Hollybags.  Advice  will be taken,  off to research clinics now!


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## Hollybags (May 7, 2008)

http://understandinguncertainty.org/node/565

This is quite interesting - and sorts the wheat from the chaff! Basically pick one of the top 5 and away you go!

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## dancie11 (Aug 31, 2009)

Thanks again Hollybags


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## Beakers (Mar 22, 2011)

We are about to have a consultation on 13 April 2011 to discuss our 4th unsuccessful attempt at IVF; this consisted of 2 fresh cycles.  The 1st cycle resulted in 3 x day 3 embryos (1 implanted immediately and the other 2 were frozen and later implanted individually).  The 2nd cycle produced 2 x day 5 embryos (blastocysts) and were implanted together.

In previous discussions with our consultant we have been reassured that nothing is wrong with either my husband’s sperm or my eggs and technically there are no reasons why IVF is not working for us.  However, it is extremely disappointing and hard to accept this as a slightly different protocol had been used in each attempt.

We want to know if there are any tests that can be carried out to establish the cause of our infertility or is there anything else we can do to improve our chances of success?  Does anyone have any advice about the types of questions we should be asking at the consultation?  We are not sure what steps to take next – has anyone gone through the process of surrogacy, if so what was your experience?

Many thanks in anticipation

J&M


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## andreamanchester (Dec 4, 2009)

Hi All
Help?  I have just failed my 5th IVF.
I am at a loss on what to do, think and feel.  We have had a decent response to drugs, usually get between 8-12 eggs and great fertilisation success.  My embryos have not been the best quality but some have been good to average.  
We have done CGH array the last two times, and this last time put back 2 'good' embryos - 1 6 cell and 1 a little fast 12 cell.
I guess immune testing would be the next step, but has anybody been in this situation or can offer me any advice.

Thank you
Andrea


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## AmandaB1971 (Feb 19, 2006)

Hi Andrea

I am so sorry for your BFN  

I would ask them to do level 1 immune testing which can be done at Care Manchester (I had mine done there) and then depending on the outcome of that ask for them to refer you to George at Care Nottingham he specialises in immune issues.

Mr Atkinson did my level 1 immune tests so they can definately be done there and cost about £150.

So sorry, it's a totally sh*t situation to be in!  

Axxx


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## lconn (Sep 4, 2009)

sorry to read your devastating news.Get tested like amanda says.take carexx


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## staceysm (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi,

It hasn't happened to me, but my friend has had 6 failed IVF's and she only got 1 BFP and miscarried at 6 weeks.  She was tested after the 5th attempt and it was found that she had immune issue's and was put on medication for her 6th attempt which failed.

For her she has decided to stop, as emotionally she can't do it anymore, however like the other ladies have said, definitely get the immune testing done, as women have got BFP's with medication.

Good luck on your journey and I hope you get the BFP you deserve.

x


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Hi Andrea 

Am so sorry Honey.

Definitely heard that immune testing works but may also be worth looking at the serum board. Penny does the hidden c test but also many of her clients have had a hysteroscopy in Athens which is my next step. If you look at the serum thread one of the ladies has put her hysteroscopy on you tube and you see all this old scar tissue being removed and they say with all that there it is unlikely anything would have implanted, they also make implantation marks to aid implantation whilst they are doing it. Many of her clients have become pregnant after having it done and I do think she would go to the ends of the earth to find an answer for her clients.

I rate Penny and Serum. Even if you choose not to go that way it is another option to consider.

Hope things change for you very soon.

xx


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## Rachel2 (Oct 3, 2004)

Hi - so sorry for what you've been through.   
I have had 9 failed iui's and 4 ivf's - the only bfp I got was last time when I was on steroids for high killer cells and sadly it was ectopic   . I am now stimming for 5th ivf - I had the hidden c test a couple of months ago and was positive for a couple of bugs that have never been picked up via other methods. I had the antibiotics and am also taking a course designed for during a cycle. It has at least given me some hope that there is a reason and an answer out there.
If you have the money and the strength to keep going I would definitely recommend asking if you can try steroids and I would get the hidden c test done too. I did it independently and my clinic don't even know I'm taking the ab's as most clinics in this country would not agree with the test or the treatment. Penny is having a lot of success with this though and we thought it was worth a try. There is a huge thread - called something like ' is pcr test for hidden c the answer?' Check it out - and I'll update you how I get on this month. Good luck - and keep strong! I've learned that you have to be very pro-active in the ivf game as most clinics have quite narrow views about things xxx


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## andreamanchester (Dec 4, 2009)

thank you all for your replies and taking the time out to help me.
I am going to read them all thoroughly when I get home from work, and discuss with my partner.  At least there are things that I can be doing to try to make this journey ending a happy one.

thank you all again
xxxx


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## Baby1000 (Sep 2, 2010)

Hi,
What's the hidden c test? I too have had lots of failures. I was always told I had perfect fertility. My husband has no sperm so we've been having treatment with donor sperm. We expected it to work quite quickly but since June 2008 have had three IUI cycles, four IVF and one FET (and three other cycles abandoned for different reasons). I had an ectopic after my third IUI and have lost count of how many biochemical pregnancies I've had. The clinic don't know why it's not working. I'm wary of immunological stuff but am interested to know about this c test.
Thanks. Got my fingers crossed for all of you (as well as for me!).


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## Rachel2 (Oct 3, 2004)

Hi- you'll find a really long thread about it on the Greece board- and if you to to the immunology and diagnosis board and look at agate's FAQ thread there's loads on there too. I thought it worth doing as it's relatively cheap and definitely worth a go x


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## Baby1000 (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks. I'll have a look.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2011)

You could check out the info. on the Immune issues section, under Diagnoses. I have had 2 rounds of ICSI with 2 BFPs followed by 2 MCs  I found out I had lupus, but came up with no definate answers to the MCs. My partner has the diagnosed infertility problems hence the ICSI.  Theres lots of additional tests you can do but even the doctors say alot of it is just down to blind luck I'm afraid. I'm in the middle of our 3rd round I wish you all the best!


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## Beakers (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi All

I am interested to find out more about the long thread on the Greece Board - but I am new to the site and not sure how to navigate to this page you refer to?  Any help would be appreciated.


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## Rachel2 (Oct 3, 2004)

Hi - here's the link to Part 1 of the thread - you'll find Part 2 on the same board. Hope that helps x

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=190643.0


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## freespirit. (Nov 24, 2004)

Hi ,
You will see from my sig , that i was in the same situation as yourself . 5xcycles , and a ruptured ectopic pg and a broken heart to show for it . Every cycle was more or less text book , each time getting a great number of eggs and a great fertilisation rate . My clinic , Care Notts suggested immune testing and it was found i had raised NK cells . A small tweak to my cycle with a few more tablets and hey presto !! I would defiantly seek immune testing after 5 cycles hun , ask for Dr George Ndukwe at Care , he specialises in immune issues and get some of his marvelous medicine .
Good luck 
Freespirit
x x x


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