# Poor Responders : Part 78



## dakota (Feb 6, 2007)

New home ladies, love and luck to you all


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

bookmarking page


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

thanks dakota, little man looking very cute.. his birthday tom?  how exciting. xx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

thanks Dakota

bobbi, how is that number of bubbles for you....am scared to change it with the 7s!

going to blow everyone else some more on this page!


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Woohoooo!  New thread, just marking it while trying to avoid all the messages on the previous thread about jam roly-poly and custard. I don't think it's fair that you guys should be discussing such things when I can't buy them over here!


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

wonder how a jam roly would cope in the post nix??   i could pack it in bubble wrap!


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Natasha - your baker joke cracked me up!!


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## dakota (Feb 6, 2007)

you have filled 7 pages in a day      

Laura, yes little man is 1 2moro, he's growing up to fast

Thankyou for my bubbles, ive been waiting ages to get past 2000


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

laurab said:


> wonder how a jam roly would cope in the post nix??  i could pack it in bubble wrap!


Aww BUM you've just reminded me I was sposed to call pharmasure to see if they could deliver Humira over here! Think they're still open?
xxx


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Aha! It was you then Bobbi, I knew I was in a bubble race with someone to bump up Dakota's numbers!


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

there's steam coming out of my mouse!!!


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## lainey-lou (Feb 18, 2007)

finally up to date, on iPhone tho so message will be brief. 

Anne - as per txt, I am so sorry. At least u have a plan and can get cracking soon. Hugs to u and J x

Tash - love the joke, will b telling that one later x

Lb - it is a mil's job to drive us crazy. Hope if I have a boy I don't drive my dil mad. My bf's mil rang up her son the day b4 they got married to tell him it wasn't too late to pull out - WTF?  Ignore her and she might go away x

Ally - glad the appointment went well. Was thinking of u x

Kate - glad ur appointment went well too - roll on April x

Zuri - well done on 9 eggs - that's fab. Good luck tomorrow. Hope u get frosties. 

Ali - good luck tomorrow x

Fish - hope today went well and they will let u egg share x



Hi to nix, bob, lj, popsi, jo, nicki, Nikki, Mira, pinkpear and everyone else. 

I had a scan today. All is quiet so onwards and upwards for me. Starting to get headaches and night sweats so glad the next phase is starting. 

Battery about to go so must post x


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## lainey-lou (Feb 18, 2007)

Sorry, meant to say thanks to Dakota and happy birthday to ds for tomorrow x

Hi juicy x

Tracey - forgot u - how r u?


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

can't a girl have a nap without 2 news pages being added......


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## lainey-lou (Feb 18, 2007)

Hi beach - I have read about twenty pages today to catch up so two is nothing. 

Talking of the number two lmao at Anne re emp. What is she like?


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

awww love you new pic Juicy


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Zuri - I was meaning to write eariler you need to get all your info from this cycle, you have a right to know it all. I hope you won't need it   but if this cycle is not a BFP then you will need all the numbers to think about what to do next..no point in leaving it to the dr's... you will need us girls to give you an opinion!  I used to ave to hold my notes prior to seeing the nurse so could read through all my results etc.  You are allowed to have look at yournotes I'd ask to have a lok through next time.. but Im a control freak!


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Thanks for the advice laura you are right I know but it's so bloody hard. Even if I got hold of notes it would make no diff because they're all in german 

X


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

zuri - ahhh yes that does cause a prob!! bet one of these girls can speak german.... we have all the skils on here you know!


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## TryMeditate (Sep 19, 2008)

Ok poor responders - me and my square eyes have been doing lots of research today...especially after my POF doctor I saw said he doesn't think full blow IVF is the way to go for women with severely diminished ovarian reserve, but had I looked at the estrogen priming protocol they do in the US?..............

Anyone who is interested, if you look down a bit on the first link it has the protocol. I've never done IVF, but this looks "very" different to me than just giving someone the pill for a few days before you go onto stim's....in fact the whole thing looks to take much longer, almost like a mini-long protocol.

So here goes...

---------------------------------------
Estrogen Priming

http://ridgefieldacupuncture.com/blog/?p=16
Link to estrogen priming protocol study done by SIRM clinic. 137 women, 37% pregnancies, All these women were poor responders, but it does say 14% (1 out of 7) success for women with diminished ovarian reserve. It does "not" say what it defines as diminished ovarian reserve, but they only had 7 out of 137 women with diminished ovarian reserve in the study. Another link referencing the same study says these 7 women had antral FCounts of <5.

---------------------------
Link to 42year old woman with one ovary who had failed IVFs, did estrogen priming at SIRM, got 5 eggs and is pregnant.
http://www3.fertilethoughts.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-445138.html
--------------------------------------

From SIRM website 
http://www.haveababy.com/SIRM/ivfpreparation/customstimulation.html

For several years, we have advocated the use of a "modified LP" (which we refer to as an "Estrogen priming LP", for women over 40yrs and those with ovarian resistance as evidenced by low Inhibin B levels and/or an FSH level of >9.0MiU/ml in association with a plasma estradiol level of <70pg/ml on the 3rd day of a natural cycle. With this protocol, estrogen is administered from the onset of menstruation to "tweak" or "prime" ovarian receptor response to FSH. This we have shown, at least in part, to counter the suppressant effect of GnRHa on FSH receptors. Through early "priming" with estrogen we also hope to improve initial endometrial response to the estrogen produced by ovarian stimulation by exposing the early endometrium to a relatively high concentration of exogenous (administered) estrogen.
SIRM's "Estrogen Priming LP" involves the initial administration of GnRHa for a number of days to effect pituitary down-regulation. Upon menstruation and confirmation by ultrasound blood estradiol measurement that adequate ovarian suppression has been achieved, the dosage Lupron is drastically lowered for the duration of follicular phase (until hCG is given), or it is replaced by Antagon or Cetrotide and the woman is given twice-weekly injections of estradiol for a period of 7-10 days. Ovarian stimulation with a relatively high dosage of FSH-dominant gonadotropins such as Follistim, Gonal F or Bravelle is then initiated for a few days whereupon the gonadotropin dosage is reduced significantly. The combination of FSH, GnRHa or antagonist and estrogen therapy is continued until approximately the 7th day of stimulation with gonadotropins, whereupon estrogen is gradually reduced or immediately withdrawn and the agonist or antagonist/gonadotropin therapy is continued until the day of hCG administration. Using this approach we have been able to significantly improve ovarian response and produce many viable pregnancies in numerous cases where all hope had been abandoned.
While use of the "modified Estrogen priming LP" does NOT guarantee improved follicle development, it does in our experience, optimize the response of women with ovarian resistance. We have been using such protocols successfully for several years.

From a response Dr SHER - SIRM posted to someone on his website.
Estrogen priming protocols: Older women (over 40 yrs), women who have demonstrated a prior reduced ovarian response to COH and those who by way of significantly raised cycle day 3 FSH and reduced Inhibin B levels are considered likely to be "poor responders", are first given GnRH agonist for a number of days to effect pituitary down-regulation. Upon menstruation and confirmation by ultrasound blood estradiol measurement that adequate ovarian suppression has been achieved, the dosage of GnRH agonist is drastically lowered (or the agonist is replaced with a GnRH antagonist) and the woman is givens twice-weekly injections of estradiol for a period of 7-10 days. COH is then initiated using a relatively high dosage of FSH-dominant gonadotropins such as Folistim or Gonal F that is continued along with daily administration of GnRH agonist/antagonist until the "hCG trigger". A recently completed study has demonstrated the efficacy of this protocol and the ability to significantly improve ovarian response to gonadotropins in many of hitherto "resistant patients

The GnRH Agonist/Antagonist Conversion Protocol (A/ACP) : It is our position that some form of pituitary blockade, either in the form of a GnRH agonist (e.g. Lupron, Buserelin, Nafarelin, and Synarel. Decapeptyl) or a GnRH antagonist (e.g. Antagon, Cetrotide, Cetrorelix, and Ganarelix) is an essential component in ovarian stimulation of "poor responders" undergoing IVF. If this is not done, a progressive rise in LH -induced ovarian androgens (male hormones &#8230;.mainly testosterone) will inevitably affect follicle/ egg development, resulting in compromised embryo quality. 
The follicles/ eggs of women on GnRH-agonist "flare protocols" are exposed to an exaggerated Lupron-induced LH release, (the "flare effect" while the follicles/eggs of women, who receive GnRH antagonists starting 6-8 days into the stimulation cycle are exposed to endogenous LH -induced ovarian androgens( especially testosterone). This might not be problematic in "normal responders" but could be decidedly prejudicial in "poor responders" and older women where endogenous basal LH levels are often raised and the ovaries may be inordinately sensitive to LH and where excessive exposure of follicles and eggs to testosterone could severely compromise egg development and thus embryo quality. 
exhausted of its LH and residual minimal LH is present in the circulation by the time stimulation with gonadotropins begins, the above mentioned adverse testosterone-effect is largely negated. On the down side is the fact that prolonged administration of GnRH agonists such as Lupron (such as with the GnRH agonist down-regulation protocol could suppress subsequent ovarian response to ovarian stimulation with gonadotropins, by competitively binding with ovarian FSH receptors. We introduced of our Agonist/Antagonist Conversion Protocol (A/ACP) more than a year ago in an effort to counter this effect. 
With the A/ACP, low dose Antagon/Cetrotide is commenced at the onset of spontaneous menstruation or following bleeding that follows initiation of GnRH agonist (e.g. Lupron) therapy using a long-down-regulation protocol arrangement. We currently prescribe the A/ACP to most of our IVF patients regardless of whether they are "normal responders" or "poor responders". Preliminary results suggest a significant improvement in egg number, egg/embryo quality as well as in implantation and viable IVF pregnancy rates. The A/ACP has however, proven to be most advantageous in "poor responders" where additional enhancement of ovarian response to gonadotropins may be achieved through incorporation of "estrogen priming". We have reported on the fact that the addition of estradiol for about a week following the initiation of the A/ACP, prior to commencing FSH-dominant gonadotropin stimulation appears to further enhance ovarian response, presumably by up-regulating ovarian FSH-receptors.
There is one potential draw back to the use of the A/ACP, in that the sustained use of a GnRH antagonist ( e.g. Antagon/Cetrotide) throughout the stimulation phase of the cycle, appears to compromise the predictive value of serial plasma estradiol measurements as a measure of follicle growth and development in that the estradiol levels tend to be much lower in comparison to cases where agonist (Lupron) alone is used or where a " conventional" GnRH antagonist protocol is employed ( i.e. antagonist administration is commenced 6-8 days following initiation of gonadotropin stimulation). Rather than being due to reduced production of estradiol by the ovary(ies), the lower blood concentration of estradiol seen with prolonged exposure to GnRH-antagonist, could be the result of a subtle, agonist-induced alteration in the configuration of the estradiol molecule , such that currently available commercial kits used to measure estradiol levels are rendered much less sensitive/specific. Thus when the A/ACP is employed, we rely much more heavily on ultrasound growth of follicles along with observation of the trend in the rise of estradiol levels, than on absolute estradiol values. Thus we commonly refrain from prescribing the A/ACP in "high responders" who are predisposed to the development of severe ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome (OHSS) and accordingly where the accurate measurement of plasma estradiol plays a very important role in the safe management of their stimulation cycles.
It is remarkable, that while using the A/ACP + "estrogen priming " in "poor responders " whose FSH levels were often well above threshold limits, the cycle cancellation has consistently been maintained below 10% ( i.e. much lower than expected). Many of these patients who had previously been told that they should give up on using their own eggs, and switch to ovum donation because of "poor ovarian reserve", have subsequently achieved viable pregnancies at SIRM using the A/ACP with "estrogen priming".

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10920090?dopt=AbstractPlus, study I sent before, women with FSH of 142 & 127 pregnant

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15672973?dopt=AbstractPlus, woman with FSH of 164 and no antral follicles on initial scan pregnant

/links


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## Maisie74 (Sep 4, 2008)

Nix - no pharmasure only open til 5 - there is an answerphone though - i get my H tomorrow - is going to be delivered to the gym as have clients first thing and needs to be signed for - i want to take it as soon as i get it so trying to work out how to inculde me doing it in front of client into a workout somehow  

laura - ooo fig rolls - i used to love them! this may not be v interesting but is the type of crap i carry about in my head - did you know that fig rolls used to be only biscuits that didnt contain hydrogenated vegetable oil and so were actually a reasonably healthy biscuit...i do wonder myself how i know this kind of stuff..


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## Maisie74 (Sep 4, 2008)

zuri - i'm half german (just check my armpits if you want proof)!!


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## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

Just marking the thread ladies  Have got roly poly out for later tho, gotta go see friends ds, he is 11 today and such a cutie.  Will pop back on later.


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## Donkey (Nov 24, 2007)

Natasha - so is just one armpit hairy?  

Laura my mil just ignores me and talks to her 'handsome, grown up son' 

xx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

i'm actually 1/8 german but if you check my pits you'd think i'm full blown german at the moment!

donk - ohhh to be ignored, my mil calls most days!


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## Maisie74 (Sep 4, 2008)

donkey - i'll just say, i dont think my waxer will be having any problems with the credit crunch the amount of business i give her


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

so donk when you gonna start peeing on sticks?


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

natasha6 said:


> zuri - i'm half german (just check my armpits if you want proof)!!





Donkey said:


> Natasha - so is just one armpit hairy?





laurab said:


> i'm actually 1/8 german but if you check my pits you'd think i'm full blown german at the moment!


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## Donkey (Nov 24, 2007)

Natasha - don't tell me your bikini line is down to your knees as well??  

laura - I'm trying to be strong..if I get a negative I'll worry and it'll shatter my pupo status and if it's positive I won't believe it.  At the moment I'm happy to believe I'm pregnant  
The suspense is killing me though  

xx


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## TryMeditate (Sep 19, 2008)

Bobbi - it does seem totally different to anything done here, I think these guys treat "a lot more" poor responders than anyone in the UK, so maybe we should really be looking at what they are doing...they seem pretty convinced that there way is the only way to acheive egg quality in poor responders - along with more eggs.

I've got the sucess rates for The Lister for amh 0.1 to 1.0 in our age ranges, and for follicles <4 (which are virtually the same), I'd love to find out how we could get similiar success rates from the CHR and SIRM - anyone got any good ideas?

Sorry to blab on about this girls, but I'm getting the impression we are bashing our poor responder heads against the wall in the UK doing the same thing over and over, and maybe missing out on the research and protocols that are more suited to pr's.


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## TryMeditate (Sep 19, 2008)

hate it when I'm not focussed and mis-spell "their", must go - date night!!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Maisie74 (Sep 4, 2008)

donkey - there is no "line", i wouldnt be surprised if the doc gets confused and tries to put the dildo cam between my toes next time


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## Little Me (Aug 29, 2008)

Zuri - I wanted to wish you luck for tomorrow - it is tomorrow isn't it? 
xxx

Hope everyone is ok.

Lainey, glad your scan went well


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Hi Anne, yes it's tomorrow, so sweet you remembered after your horrible day xx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Anne    you are one brave lady x


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Zuri- good luck


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## Ali27 (Jul 13, 2007)

Anne -    replied on Lister thread/text.  We are all here for you  

Ally - glad you had a positive scan and that you do still have a womb and ovaries!  Interesting that they want you to try DIY.   

Kate - glad you had a good experience yesterday at the Lister!  

Lainey lou - thanks for the wishes    Glad your scan went well and you can move on to the next stage   

Laura - your MIL sounds bonkers!    

Natasha - dildo cam between your toes    

Donkey -   hang in there!

Zuri - good luck for tomorrow  

Pixie -  

Sam - sent you a pm. Enjoy your date night  

Jen - still looking for symptoms?    

Fishy - how did you get on today?  

Missyg - good luck for tomorrow.  

Hi to everyone else.  

Just making roast chicken for my dinner.  My friend is coming with me to my appointment tomorrow as am pooping myself now.  Worried they wont see anything.  xx


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Ali - I know I thought DIY in the middle of treatment, its hard enough to get dressed in the morning without trying to put up some shelves aswell!!      Jeeez do they think I am superwoman?! No seriously my scan was fine , it appears I do have a womb and ovaries which is nice, Tuesday will tell us more. I wanted to wish you loads and loads of luck for your scan tomorrow, what time is it?? Will you update us as soon as you can??

Anne - angel hope your getting loads of cuddles and giving Jason lots of cuddles, heres one for both of you   ooooh and a team PR one for you both too  

Zuri - good luck tomorrow hon      I hope it all goes swimmingly  

Lainey - glad those ovaries have shut the fock up and are now quiet!! Are you on first stims tonight? I just did my first jab      Thanks for your text hon - thinking of you loads too xxxx

Missy - have you got a visit to the Lister tomorrow too?? I am confused and I can't read back far enough to find out!! If so masses of good luck xxxx

Sam - well done for your amazing research hon, some of that looks VERY interesting  

Popsi - how did your SW visit go?? How is your doggy doing?  

Love and cuddles to purple, fishy, Pixie, beachy, mir, laura, Jen, alegria, juicy, karen, kate, LJ, Bobbi, OMG I've forgotten someone really important I am so sorry  

The more I think about the clinic this morning the more I feel that they are being really negative with me, I just have to fight it, I so so so want to prove them wrong.......

Kisses A xxxx


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## alegria (Dec 10, 2007)

Hi girls  

Anne -      Hopefully you'll not need to have tx again in Feb   

Sam - Thanks for sharing the research hun  

Ally - GROW FOLLIES GROW    

Lots of   to you all

Alegria x


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## Ali27 (Jul 13, 2007)

Hi Alegria -  

Ally - perhaps the Lister want you to help them out with the refurb  

I will update as soon as possible - probably when I get home in the evening as I have to swing home via Alton to collect more meds if needed.  

What you doing tomorrow for your day off?  x


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Thank you Alegria  

Ali - yeah thats a thought, cheeky beggers   Good luck again hon xxxx


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## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

Ali - good luck for ur scan tomoz hunny    

Zuri - hope everything goes ok for u tomoz petal     

Anne - im thinking of you sweetheart, and im here if u need me   

With all this talk of bushes i've just realised after all the palaver the other night i actually forget to trim mine before going the lister   Thank god they didnt wanna scan me, they would have had to send the search and rescue team for the dildocam  

Hi beachy, ally, laurab, alegria, lainey, sam, popsi, missy, treacey, steph, juicy, lucy, purple, fishy, natasha, donkey and everyone else.  Think im gonna have an early nite tonight, forgot to set alarm clock last nite and didnt get up till ten past 7    

Kate
xxxxxxx


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## Ali27 (Jul 13, 2007)

Blimey kate....thats a serious bush!!   You sure thats not why you've not fallen pg yet?


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## TryMeditate (Sep 19, 2008)

Natasha "donkey - there is no "line", i wouldnt be surprised if the doc gets confused and tries to put the dildo cam between my toes next time" <roflmao> <roflmao> <roflmao>

Anne & Jason      .

Ali & Zuri - good luck for your scans tomorrow. We will all have everything crossed for you.     

Ally - your such a strong woman! Is your next scan monday? Are you taking your day off tomorrow?

I'm really interested in this Estrogen Priming protocol. My conclusions so far: Problem in the UK is there is only "one" clinic that will treat us, and god bless The Lister for giving us a chane, but I've seen the stats for low follicle\ amh < 1.0 women and the "total" number of cycles they have run with amh <1.0 since 2005 is actually not many - it's under 200! Whereas in the US there are many more clinics that treat us, so they have a much bigger sample to work with, so much more experience. I'd love to see what their comparable pregnancy rates are for women with amh <1.0, as if it's higher than here ..... then we should all be getting on a plane and doing our tx in NY! It would probably work out cheaper too  Only problem is I've no idea how to get their stats, so for all the hype they may not be having much more success that beating your head against the short protocol brick wall.

The stats published on the website are for all women, regardless of amh, and tend to be from ET to pregnancy not cycle started.

Any ideas on how to get their stat's welcome.

Nighty night all.

Sam xx


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## TryMeditate (Sep 19, 2008)

god I need to go to bed.

Natasha - that was me laughing at you    xx


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi all!
Anne    so sorry hun. Hope you can come back fighting though. We have all been at these all time lows but it doesn't mean it won't ever happen. First IVF's are often a learning curve. As far as I can see a higher FSH means less good eggs and that may be your reason for poor fert. Like LJ said have a think about DHEA cos it might improve your egg quality    Take care

Zuri - well done and good luck for tomorrow
LB - MILs   agree they are all bad!
Sam - great research you scientist!   I think the girls on the multiple cycles/slow responders thread are more knowledgable on the international scene than us.....

Love to all
NW


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## Kazzie40 (Apr 1, 2008)

hi Girls - Anne & Jason so sorry       but glad to hear you saw Jaya and have a plan of action, I also think a cancelled cycle is worse then a BFN as you feel so cheated. But March isn't that far away and will be here before you know it.  

Laura your MIL   I swear she must be related to mine! By the way there is no girl good enough for my darling boys  

Will sign off as had long two days at the work from hell, will be back tomorrow for more personals xxxx


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## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

Ali - i have been known to tuck it into my socks for special occasions    Or sometimes i plait it and dye it blonde 

Sam - you are amazing hunny - what would we do without you on here  

Hi nicki u ok hunny?


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## popsi (Oct 11, 2007)

girls.. i cant keep up with you all !!

social worker visit went well thanks, got loads of work to do now for next time, little overwhelming but will be ok i am sure, she is really nice, but did not want coffee or biscuits today    

ally.. my doggie is ok ish ! she has had her ear lanced today to see if that works, but if not it will be a repeat of her operation next week    this works, she is my fur baby x

love to everyone else xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I'm sure I posted earlier... but the thread doesn't come up under unread replies! Woss goin on?


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi Kazz, KAte! All well here. E at nursery today, felt a bit   as she was crying hysterically when we collected her yesterday. She was OK today though  
Popsi - gosh alot of work for adoption - like doing Open University! Glad its all going well  
Going to bed now to read!
Love ya
NicksW


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Ali27 said:


> Blimey kate....thats a serious bush!!  You sure thats not why you've not fallen pg yet?


OMG     imagine if you only just clicked that that was the problem all along!!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Must have been the old thread! How bizarre! Will have to go back now to see what I missed apart from contraceptive bushes, jam roly poly and hairy pits...


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Poo was mentioned Mir


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## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

Ally - if only hun       To think we had wasted 10 grand on ivf when all i needed to do was have was a b loody shave     

Nicki - ooohhh hunny - glad she's ok, must be hard for you    

Popsi - glad the sw visit went well hunny.  Hope ur fur baby is ok    

Hi miranda lovey - have you seen the time?  What are u still doing up petal?


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Off to bed, night all x


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## Ali27 (Jul 13, 2007)

night night beach xx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

God we are great aren't we.  All the **** we have gone through and all the heartache we are going/ gone through and yet we are all so funny and great aren't we.  Just imagine those poor PR girls who don't have internet.. can you imagine!  Just reading Mir's post of what she had missed mademe chuckle... we do talk a load of garbage don't we!


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Pops - really hope that doggie gets better soon, I understand so much how we love our pets   I am a bit worried as Percy's lump on his face has got a bit bigger  

Sam - I second what Bobbi says, either that or work as a spy on the inside and send all the juicy protocols our way!!! 

Mir - are you alright dear? You didn't post on the other thread did you? Have you taken your pills today??  

Nicki - those first days of nursery must be really hard but she will be loving it in no time and you know in your heart that you are doing the best for her  

Karen hon - sorry you are having a sh!tty time at work, hope it improves for you  

Laura - your not wrong love - we are fing hilarious - how do PRers get to have a better sense of humour than 'normals'      You would have thought we would have left our humour at our first failed IVF cycle!!! 

Sam - not sure how strong I really am but giving it my best shot! I do have my day off tomorrow but I tend to fill it with chores, though tomorrow a friend is over from Sweden and I really don't want to meet up with her because last time I did and she had her little boy with her he just told me to go away the whole time and smacked me, that sort of thing makes me really upset these days as it implies that even a small child thinks I shouldn't be a mother, god rambling, anyone understand?

Love y'all xxxx


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

I thought you had nicknamed Mir 'Madame Chuckle' - I didnt think she would have fancied being wife to one of the Chuckle Brothers!!!


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## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

We laugh cos we have to, and we cry cos we can      We are normal well as normal as we can be going through all this [email protected] anyway    

Ally - did the little lads momma not say anything to him?  Thats just rude!!!! But yes hun i do understand   and you must understand that the kids just a brat, you will make a wonderful mummy hun


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Ally - I'm so glad I'm not the only one who measures my suitability to be a mum by how other people's kids react to me! I feel almost compelled to approach children and make them smile at me, especially if they're playing up so I can say to myself "See! See! Kids love me, I'd be a great mum!" as there's a part of me that wonders if it's not working because I'd be crap with kids. Of course when they're horrible to me or I just can't take to the child, then I start thinking "oh bugger, maybe there's a good reason why it's not happening after all..."

Which is absolutely ridiculous of course but then I never claimed to be rational!

 at the Madame Chuckle, that's what I thought too!



beachgirl said:


> Poo was mentioned Mir


Mais oui, bien sur! What else would we be talking about?!  

   at all the hairy tales on here tonight! Damn but we ARE funny! Gutted I missed the chat last night, what time did you guys start?


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## Ali27 (Jul 13, 2007)

missed the chat too Nix - does anyone know whay I cant get in?  Just get a blank page


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## missyg (Jan 2, 2009)

Just a quickie

Ali - I am terrified there will be nothing there on my scan tomorrow too. Good luck to you and will text you if I am coming back.

Sam - Good sleuthing! I was convinced enough by the amount of eggs ladies seemed to be getting on the estrogen priming protocol when I was looking on US fertility chat rooms. I think everyone just has to ask their consultant if they are willing to give it a try - I know I have said before but Jaya is willing to give it a try for me if this time on her protocol is not good. I can't afford to keep having tx tweaked so if I have to have another go I want it to be the estrogen priming protocol. Your POF doctor sounds good that he was so up on protocols - I have never seen anyone specifically about POF - do you think I should and can you give me his details? 

Ally - thanks for your message. 

Night all. 

Missy x


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

evening and night night mad team PR! What would I do without you all   

Ps: Bobs we started around 9ish and finished at 11.30 but can't even remember what we talked about. There were loads of   
and   

pps: Nick cheers for the acu info hun  

love to everyone.

xxxxxxxxxx


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## Ali27 (Jul 13, 2007)

Night Pixie   sweet dreams x

I just tried to enter the chat room again and this time the page loaded and I was in the lounge.  Where do i then have to go?  Is the PR chat room only there on a Wednesday?


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

No worries Pixie!

Forgot to say to Sam, thanks for the extensive research, just sorry I can't make any suggestions for getting hold of those stats...

Anyway, it's gone midnight and if I'm going to get any sleep at all I'd better get off here!

Night all!
xxx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Ally, Nix - with you on the other people's kids thing....last tx I was waiting by the pharmacy at the lister, the whole area was packed and quiet when a kid started declaring very loudly to his mother that he wanted water from the machine but couldn't because I was sitting there.  I was going to be all   at him being scared of me but then i decided no,  , he is being silly, and she was really rude by getting it for him without even looking me in the eye to acknowledge that he had just embarassed me in front of everyone

so you should do whatever is going to make your day off most enjoyable Ally, especially this week!

oh corks I've forgotten everything else I was going to say other than thanks Pixie re pic  

night!


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi all 

*Anne* - what can I say which hasn't already been said - am so gutted for you and Jason, you seem such a lovely couple and I really, really wish things were different for you - sending you huge    So sorry it hasn't worked out this time - you are def in the best hands though and with your positive attitude and Jaya's help you WILL get there    Like Laura, I remember meeting Jen & Paul last March after their failed fertilisation and how sad they were, and they were pregnant just a month later, life works in mysterious ways sometimes. Take care sweetie and look after each other 

*Zuri* - good luck for ET tomorrow - hope you have some top grade embies to put back and are soon PUPO!   

*Juicy* - love the new bump pic - must sort out a new one myself this weekend, mine has really popped out this week!  I also have no linea ***** whatsoever either - another english rose with pasty white skin! 

*Laura* - I cannot BELIEVE your MIL! - that woman!  - the line she came out with is so twisted!  a psychologist would have a field day analysing that one! I agree with everything Nix said on the last thread - I would leave her to stew in her own juices for a while, the only person she is really hurting with her childish, possessive behaviour is herself (unless you let her) and hopefully she will soon realise this.  What did Tim say when you told him?

So sorry about your Nan too, how sad  - sending you big 

I cannot tell you how often I think of seeing your little ones last week , and every time I do it makes me smile!  Fantastic news re their weights (might have been on trip thread I think)  would love a pic of the 3 of them in jackets if you get a chance hon  - hope Cerys' crocheted jacket was big enough!?

*Ally* - wishing you so much luck with this cycle, am  that things will go your way this time   

Lots of love as always to everybody, hope you all have a good weekend 

Steph xx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

steph - i'm taking them out in car tom so will use there jackets then and take a piccy for you!


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

awww luvverly! thanks hon! hope you have a fun time out - you going anywhere nice?


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

we are off to meet daddy's work folk!  we'll only be there for an hour will take about 3hrs to get co-ordinated to get them there!  

you ok? hows bump?


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

I'm great, my energy levels have really picked up this week and have gone into nesting mode - have been having a major clearout to try and make room in this little flat for LO! Bump is fine, getting bigger and is very active! 

Must go get some sleep now though - night night hon, hope you get some seep yourself tonight, and that all goes well tomorrow!


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

night hon... madness of the 2am feed is due now so need to get organised with bibs and milk!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Boing.  

How is Robert lively as a cricket at 3am? Will have to wait till 5am now before he's remotely sleepy - have put him in the Jumperoo again.

Think I may need two doses of Medised to get him through the night! Steph - you still up?

xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

On my own then! Boo.

Just read back - Madame Chuckle!   I won the chance to go on the carnival bus in Weymouth aeons ago... with the Chuckle Brothers. It was hideous - them shouting 'To me, to you...' while youngsters lobbed 2p pieces at our heads. Nice.

Ali - the PR room is down at the bottom of the list of rooms somewhere.

Beach - I'd be v surprised if poo was not in the mix! Ew. But how I do love a good poo convo.


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Good Morning

Zuri     for ET

Anne   thinking of you and J x

Mir- did Bob get back to sleep?

Laura- enjoy your day (hour) out with the triplets...you'll probably end up staying the whole day whilst people cuddle them x

Steph- can't believe your 21 weeks, where has time gone?

Off for a pedicure and manicure this morning so need to get the washing and ironing done first...


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Morning girls

Well just got back from transfer and all went well

7 of my 9 eggs were mature and 6 fertilised, they froze 3 yesterday and left 3 to mature, he showed me a picture of the 3, 2 were perfect 4 cell embryos and the other was 4 cells but a bit fragmented so they discarded that one and i now have the other two in place, fingers crossed from here.

My consultant was lovely today, I have come to realise its just his and their practice to not go into details, frustrating but its how it is and if i have to have a next time then i'll understand their protocol more.

He was going through the things i can and can't do etc.. and he said 3 coffees and one good glass of wine a day is ok!!! that surprised us  

So I am feeling very positive but scared, this is the nearest we will ever have got to being pregnant in the nearly 4 years we've been trying! 

Right hubby has told me no sitting at computer and to get on the sofa so i'll be checking back in later on my iphone to see how everyone is

Anne - hope you are OK this morning, thinking of you xxxx

Morning everyone else

Züri x


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## Ali27 (Jul 13, 2007)

Zuri - that is fantastic news!!   

Beach - how do you get up so early?    Your house must be immaculate. Enjoy your pedi and mani.  What a lovely way to spend the day  

Laura - enjoy your trip trip out  

Madame Chuckle - yoou were up vvvvearly   Hope you dont feel too   today.

Anne -   fro you today.  xx

I am getting ready to go to London.  Kept waking up all night and having weird mixed up dreams.    

Will post later. xx


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Ali lots of luck for your scan today xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I second the wine Zuri! It sends blood rushing to your uterus - make sure you don't miss that part of his prescription out!


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Ali- not sure why I get up so early....must be mad, good luck for your scan

Zuri- congrats on being PUPO   

I second Mir- the odd small glass of red helps


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## purple72 (Jul 25, 2008)

Oh Anne, thanks for the text and big hugs to you and Jason both, As everyone has said its no body's fault, you both did everything right, and march is so close, 5 weeks away! Thinking of you both and you have my number hun if you want to talk  

Zuri Congrats hunny!!! Frosties too! Well done Pupo lady!!

Laura    MIL's mine's in South Africa, but that's not far enough! Yours is losing the plot! Mine did Christmas before we got married and ended up calling me a terrorist   Silly lady! I remind myself often that a man chooses his wife, he has NO CHOICE in his mother! And Yes I have her little boy and one day I'll have her granchildren too!!! HAHAHAHA (evil laugh)

LJ I am off the every other day persuasion myself from day 7- day 21, hoping to cover all bases, however as it hasn't worked yet then do what feel right for you and DP

Juicy your bump pic is so lovely!

Nix you are on top form hunny, smiling thinking of you power walking with your ipod! so good to have you back on top form! you really cheer me up  

Ally keeping everything crossed for that big juicy folly!!! Stay strong hunny!  

Ali hope scan went well!!

Wasn't one of us having an app at lister on 28th?? Did i miss that? or just make it up? 

Hugs to one and all you are all such amazing women..... makes me so proud to have you all as my PR friends

Love ya

Sx


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## angel555 (Apr 7, 2008)

Good morning all.

I haven't really been coming on FF much lately. After my last BFN I found things really really difficult and just didn't know how to cope. DH and I chatted about things and he does not like me cutting myself off from everyone and everything and I agree, but just found it difficult to have motivation for anything at all. So we decided that I could go for another round of tx and then whether or not it worked, I would make a real effort to get back into the swing of things. I know I'm probably rambling and not making much sense, but the short of it is we did another cycle. I'm currently in the 2ww and absolutely terrified of testing  . I hope I can join you ladies again. This thread must be the fastest on this forum, but I'll try to keep up as much as I can.


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

Morning girls,
                                                            
Zuri I just wanted to say well done on being pupo ! Fab news!

Anne hope you are ok sweetheart-thinking of you.xx

At the hairdressers, having my colour done at the mo and writing from my I pod! This is taking the addiction a step further 

Love to everyone

Pix xx


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## angel555 (Apr 7, 2008)

Beach - enjoy the mani and pedi.

Laura - Enjoy the day out. Like you said you'll probaly spend more time getting things organised than out. I agree with the others though, you are super mum! Lots of kisses to the chiplets.

Anne - how are you today? March will be here in no time. In the meantime, it wouldn't harm you to try DHEA. Also something my GP recommended was Pregnacare for conception. It has L'arginine and a few other additional things. 

Purple - Terrorist  Seriously what turns MILs into such meanies??   They are wonderful and caring when it comes to ther daughters, but the minute they see the DIL, its as if they can't help turning on the "nasty switch" in their brains.

Bobbi- hello you. I think it was the other way round, you made me feel better. Will definitely try to sort out the computer for next week's chat room session. 

Miranda - sorry you had to chat to yourself. Did Robert finally get to sleep?

Zuri - Congrats on the PUPO status. Take care of yourself.

Ally - hope you are feeling better about yourself today. Its perfectly natural to feel hormonal. Is what you are going for a stimulated natural cycle? Keeping everything crossed for you.

Sam - I have saved all your research on estrogen priming and will have a read later. I couldn't really take it in the first time round. 

One interesting piece of research I came across (led by one of the American clinics) that specifically applied to repeated failures was that all the stimming meds can cause the uterine lininng to inflame and get irritated. This makes implantation difficult. They did admit that clinics are sometimes too quick to blame egg quality, but unless advanced investigation had been done on the eggs or even the embryos, there is no way of being 100% conclusive. This makes sense as sometimes you hear of someone being told that the eggs were very poor quality or the embryos were highly fragmented yet they go on to have healthy children while others with seemingly smooth cycles get BFN. What they recommend if you have had more than 2 failed fresh cycles is that you do a fresh cycle only up to egg collection. All the resulting embryos are frozen on Day 2. Then give it a month or 2 depening on the dose you were on and do a frozen cycle. Their research has shown much better success rates for such women. Frozen cycles are much easier on the body and less stressful. 

Although I knew we would not be going to USA for tmt, I was wondering what they do for PR. Because I for one have never ever had even one embryo left over to freeze. I did some more reading and found that (and this part is not within the research) one possibility was 2 -3 fresh cycles to collect a good number of embryos. The because of the likelihood of high doses of stimming drugs, take a 3 month break and go for a frozen cycle. 

I found it quite interesting so thought I'd share with you all.


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## angel555 (Apr 7, 2008)

Good morning Pix!  What colour is your hair now


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## Donkey (Nov 24, 2007)

Morning

Zuri – fantastic news, you are PUPO!!    And frosties!!  I had some wine the other night but it made me feel sick.    I’m not a big drinker though.

Lainey – so glad the scan went well, a positive start to the cycle  

Ally – I agree with you. I would push for IVF to give you the best chance.  To be honest you are the ‘customer’ and if you have a follie and feel strong enough to go through the IVF surely it’s up to you?  

Missy – good luck today  

Ali – good luck to you too.  I’m sure they will see something.    Was the roast chicken nice?

Popsi – so happy the visit went well.  What kind of things are they looking for?  What do you have to do for next time?  

Laura did I miss something about your nan?  Enjoy your trip.  

Angel – fantastic news that you are on the 2ww.  Everyone understands about ‘cutting yourself off’  we’ve all done it.. We are all here to get you through the madness.  The girls have been great supporting me.  

Pixie – do you feel all glamorous now?  I love having my hair coloured, I feel so much better.  


Have a good day

donks xxx


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Wow donkey only 4 days to go! How are you feeling? Has it been a long 10 days? Anymore symptoms, been saying to myself to be chilled and relaxed but just know I will be a nightmare analysing everything! Good luck for test date

Hi pixie, funny you posting to FF while at hairdressers  I'm terrible for checking FF while out and about on my phone

Angel good luck on your 2WW

Hello everyone else 

X


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

Morning angel,

Wishing u the best of luck! Hope u get your well deserved bfp this time.

I am just getting my roots done, nothing exciting !

Bob it is not even an I phone, I am using my I pod! Stupidly hard to type!!


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## angel555 (Apr 7, 2008)

Nix - Bobbi is right. Its very relevant to you right now. Hopefully this gives your PMA some boost. 

Bobbi - don't seem to have network coverage right now. PM'd you.

Ali - forgot to wish you luck for your scan today. Hope it goes well.


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

Bobs yes it's an I touch pod or whatever it's called. It's definitely not made for typing - yet I'm still trying doh! Better go my eyes started to go funny! : )

Xxx


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## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

Morning everyone 

Purple it was me at the lister on the 28th hun, start pill in march cycle in april if everything ok  

Zuri congrats on being pupo hunny, everything crossed for you  

Anne - hope u are ok hunny, im thinking of you and jay   

Ali - hope scan goes ok petal 

Angel congrats to you too hun on being pupo, everything crossed 

Morning pixie - hope ur enjoying the hair do! 

Hi bobbi laura miranda donkey ally fishy missy sam natasha tracey steph and everyone.

Kate
xxxxxxxx


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

angel555 said:


> Good morning all.
> 
> I haven't really been coming on FF much lately. After my last BFN I found things really really difficult and just didn't know how to cope. DH and I chatted about things and he does not like me cutting myself off from everyone and everything and I agree, but just found it difficult to have motivation for anything at all. So we decided that I could go for another round of tx and then whether or not it worked, I would make a real effort to get back into the swing of things. I know I'm probably rambling and not making much sense, but the short of it is we did another cycle. I'm currently in the 2ww and absolutely terrified of testing . I hope I can join you ladies again. This thread must be the fastest on this forum, but I'll try to keep up as much as I can.


Not rambling at all, it makes perfect sense to me honey  and good luck! Also thanks for the info re FET and why it's sometimes better than a fresh cycle.



bobbi3 said:


> Nix - angel's post may be relevant to your upcoming FET





angel555 said:


> Nix - Bobbi is right. Its very relevant to you right now. Hopefully this gives your PMA some boost.


You know what, I really really really love you guys!  It is the one consolation for all the crap is that I got the chance to find this board and all of you. You are all so kind and thoughtful and funny and you never judge and you're everything a best mate should be. I have no idea why this has set me off today because you're all like this all the time, but I am crying like an  right now! But it's not sad tears...

Ok am going to go away and calm down now!

Love to all!
xxx


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## angel555 (Apr 7, 2008)

Oh Nix   . I too am feeling like that today.


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## angel555 (Apr 7, 2008)

Bobbi - how did you get 2000+ bubbles?  

Will someone blow me some please?


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

bobbi despite my practicing, you're still faster than me  
has no one noticed the phantom bubblers on the thread the past few days - no one's total has remained unchanged!!! here's a 


too!


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## purple72 (Jul 25, 2008)

Angel good luck hunny! yeah I think it's the scouse accent that made her call me that! honestly! whatever next and this from the most racist mixed race person I've ever met, but anyhow, South Africa is such a long way away   (Thank God)

Anyway hugs to you all, I'm now blubbing too! Think there are too many hormones flying around cyberspace on this thread! 

Kate not long now then, I guess they will do something similar with me at my appoint on monday! Maybe you me and Anne will be cycling together! 

Pixie, you are hard core with your FF   hat's off to ya honey  

hello Bobbi, Juicy, nix, Donkey, Mir, Ali, Beach, Zuri and all others!!

Sx


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

So are there a lot of terrorists in the Pool then?!   

... Have calmed down again now!

xxx


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## purple72 (Jul 25, 2008)

Nix   She's Catholic so I guess she thinks we're all part of the IRA   .....

However if there was a terrorist group against mother in laws..... I could possibly be persuaded!

But really I have nothing to complain about she's thousands of miles away!

Must go and do some work now ladies, catch you all later! Hugs Sx


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Oh dear, Catholic, mixed race and racist...?  I'd say you don't have to do anything to her, she's got enough problems as it is!


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## Little Me (Aug 29, 2008)

Hi girls,

Hope you are all ok so far today.

I wanted to say Zuri- what brilliant news, really am happy for you and please look after yourself and rest as much as you can  

Angel- Welcome back and I hope you get your lovely BFP  

Everyone else, words can't explain how much your kindness, lovely posts and texts messages mean to me (and Jason) I feel very lucky to have you all as my friends.
Nix- I know what you mean about      hun  

Not sure if I am losing the plot but I feel so much worse today- how weird is that?
I woke up this morning and for a moment I forgot  and then I remembered and it was awful.
I just keep wandering around the house in a mixture of     and shock.
Anyway, I know it wil get better so just need to crack on with it now I guess x

I spoke to the Embryoligist earlier as I kept thinking about what she said about my "grey egg" anyway, she basically said that out of the 3 eggs, only 2 were suitable for ICSI . I asked her about this dark grey egg that was mentioned and she did say that it looked of poor quality and something about either no cytoplasm or too much ( I honestly can't remember now) She said she has seen this happen lots before sometimes once and going on to get healthy eggs/BFP's and sometimes it can happen again. She couldn't comment on DHEA but gonna try it anyway I think.
I am now scared   that my eggs are well ffff'd. 

Love
Anne
xxxx


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## dimsum (Apr 16, 2008)

angel555 said:


> One interesting piece of research I came across (led by one of the American clinics) that specifically applied to repeated failures was that all the stimming meds can cause the uterine lininng to inflame and get irritated. This makes implantation difficult. What they recommend if you have had more than 2 failed fresh cycles is that you do a fresh cycle only up to egg collection. All the resulting embryos are frozen on Day 2. Then give it a month or 2 depening on the dose you were on and do a frozen cycle. Their research has shown much better success rates for such women. Frozen cycles are much easier on the body and less stressful.


Hello, serial lurker here 

Be great if that is right cos it's something I've decided to do. After three failed cycles (2 at Lister, 1 at SIRM NY, only 2 eggs each time) I've decided just to try and collect as many of the one (or maybe two) eggs that I produce naturally each month, freeze any embryos and go for transfers later. I'm 39 so even if I did manage to get pregnant from a fresh cycle and give birth that would probably be the only child I would have (and being a greedy soul, if I can manage it I'd like to have more than one )

Going back to the Lister and doing a mild-IVF with that approach in mind.


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Hi Anne

Sorry that today you are feeling worse, I suppose its normal, the past 2 days have been a shock and now I suppose the reality sets in. Give yourself time to recover and 5 weeks will have passed before you know it and you'll be on your second go. Its good you got to talk to your embryologist and that she explained things a bit more to you, lets hope they can learn from this cycle and change things for the next cycle, hope you start to feel better soon xx

By the way after ET are you really supposed to lay on sofa all day? i know its a good excuse but I am not sitting still at all, i keep popping back to computer etc..... i assume its ok to be pottering around but just nothing to strenuous?

X


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

zuri - well done little chicken.  fine crop.  and frosties!  i like your dr now... wine!  im tempted to have a glass now!

mir - should have texted me i only got to bed at 6.30 and only had 45 mins.  

anne - xxxx

i'm whacked and wanna cuppa tea but babies too whingy to put down.  didn't get to go out, tim had prob at work so had to go out. called my sis but she was out so home alone again.  wish i had a buggy so i could go out for awalk.


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

sounds like you had a late night Laura!! so how many hours sleep is average at the moment during the night, it sounds such a handful

I asked you previously but i think you missed the question, did your three babies result from 3 embies or did one split? my doc today said because he's put 2 top grade embryos in then to be prepared for the chance of twins! eek! i suppose twins would be a doddle though to you hehehe
x


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## purple72 (Jul 25, 2008)

Oh Anne hunny, 

It's not surprising for your emotions to be going up and down, as others have said it's such a shock and you have to grieve! Although it must feel like someone's kicked you remeber just reach out your arms and we will all pick you up! Just don't expect too much of yourself, and try if you can to think of all the positives, You did get a crop of follies and they turned into 3 eggs, and two were suitable for ICSI. That's all very positive things. It's heartbreaking that they didn't fertilise, but next time hunny they will! You and Jason deserve to have your own little brood!

Just allow yourselves masses of TLC and know we are all here for you.

Laura I think you deserve a glass of wine hunny, and after only 45mins sleep it must still feel like night time, sorry babes are being a bit grumpy, hope they settle this afternoon for you

Sx


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Argh Laura - sorry you're trapped babes!  Can you really not even put the kettle on and make a cup of tea?  Even if it means they whinge for a few mins while you drink it, it's not like you're torturing them or anything...?  Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question and I know I have no concept of what it's like to listen to your baby cry and even less of how it is to listen to 3 of them but can you really not put them down for a couple of mins?  What would happen if you did?

Zuri - as long as you're not weightlifting or doing aerobics you should be fine! 

Anne sweetie  it does tend to come and go in waves and oh God to I remember that sinking feeling once it all comes back to you in the morning    Do take the DHEA it's a miracle drug and makes such a difference to egg quality, it really does. Your eggs might not have been good quality this time but it doesn't follow that it will always be that way so you get that DHEA down your neck!  And don't feel bad for feeling bad babes, just know that it won't always feel that way, it does get better, honestly it does.   

Love to all!

xxx


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

thanks bobbi i'll take a look


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## purple72 (Jul 25, 2008)

Nixf01 said:


> Oh dear, Catholic, mixed race and racist...? I'd say you don't have to do anything to her, she's got enough problems as it is!


    and to top it all off she lives in South Africa! Thousands of miles away from her precious only boy Bless her, seems she has her own issues hey


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## Jo Macmillan (Mar 19, 2007)

Hi angel - just wanted to say, i blew you some more bubbles! Wahted to get over 1000 but I got bored - sorry hun!

good luck for the 2ww - looking forward to getting to know you x


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Jo Macmillan said:


> Hi angel - just wanted to say, i blew you some more bubbles! Wahted to get over 1000 but I got bored - sorry hun!


Dunnit!
xxx


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## angel555 (Apr 7, 2008)

Nixf01 said:


> Jo Macmillan said:
> 
> 
> > Hi angel - just wanted to say, i blew you some more bubbles! Wahted to get over 1000 but I got bored - sorry hun!
> ...


Ah.....aren't you girls the best?? From 383 bubbles to over 1000 in a day 

Jo, I used to post on this thread before and I do remember you from then. How is it going with the DHEA?


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

bobbi look at Nix's now too....I couldn't resist.  
I didn't actually know fingers could sweat!


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## angel555 (Apr 7, 2008)

Forgot to say welcome to dimsum. Thats quite interesting that you are planning to take the approach I wrote about. I don't actually know anyone who's done it so we would all be interested in learning more through you. I've been thinking about it a lot myself, the only downside is that it would probably end up being costlier, and you'd have to get your clinic on board. 

Nix - you feeling better?

Anne - after whats happened, it will take a while to feel "normal", although the whole idea of "normal" has probably got a different meaning to us lot now. I wish there was an easier way to deal with it. But nothing takes away the pain and grief. Try to pamper yourself and DH and put yourselves first for the next few days. Scream, kick, cry, vent...........get it out of your system.  

Apart from DHEA, I was also advised to take wheatgrass, which is supposed to be good for the lining and preparing it for implantation. Again its one of those things which may not give you miracle results, but won't harm your chances.


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## angel555 (Apr 7, 2008)

Bobbi and Juicy - are you two the ones who have been blowing all of us bubbles 

Sweaty fingers


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

Anne sweetheart   
I have been thinking of you all night.   I knew you would feel worse today.
Cry as much as you want hon - it will help you feel better later on - promise!
As I said to you on my text there are many positives to take from this cycle so try and focus on them. I know it's easier said than done but everything will turn out OK in the end - you will do it! even though it doesn't feel like it right now.
Hope Jason is there an comforting you  
Take care sweetheart.

Nix: Come on mate, don't you start as well! Here are some    from me too. I know they are only the cyber ones but imagine them being real for a moment.  

Here is    for all the other lovely ladies.

Pix xx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Angel Congrats on being PUPO    
i think Bobbi, Nix and me have sweaty fingertips. It is just making me laugh so much though!

Pixie, I bet your hair is looking fab
so many nice words for Anne today.  Hope they are comforting you Anne  

where's Natasha...we need another quality joke like yesterday's!  I am about to ring my nephew and tell him that one - loved it!


----------



## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

Anne hunny as i said earlier wish i could send u a proper hug over a txt msge       You will pick up sweetheart honest you will but dont try and pretend ur ok like i did, just give urself some time and space just for you and jason.  We will get there hunny as purple said we may be cycling alltogether next time and good luck always seems to come in threes. We can be the three musketeers, or if we find another girl to cycle with us, i'll bring the dog and we can be the famous five.  Im here if you need me petal    

Nix -       for you too hunny 

Pixie - u ok today hunny, hows they eyeball now? Are you still   at all the fellas you see 

Bobbi - hope theres no fillings hun, i hate the sound of that drill  

Angel i tried dhea but started feeling quite depressed and headachy, mite try 25mg for one week then 50mg and then 75mg see if thats makes a difference cos im gonna need all the help i can get too.  Will def get some wheatgrass tho, can you get it from holland and barrat? 

Jo - if ur not bored of blowing bubbles blow me some please? 

Dimsum - wlecome to thread hunny  

Laura - hunny soory ur feeling so knackered, try and get 5 mins if u can the chips wont be going anywhere and a little whinge wont hurt them.    You gotta look after you too petal and you deserve a nice cuppa and some custard creams  

Hi juicy steph tracey fishy and everyone, sorry if ive missed anyone out can only go so far back on here today for some reason 

Kate
xxxxxxxxx


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

Juicy – Yes I really like it. It’s hardly surprising when you dish out just under £300 though is it?   Luckily I don’t pay for it – my company does.   I’d negotiated a really good package when I was head-hunted about 3 years ago! The package also includes a good maternity cover which I’ve never been able to use   
How are you my love, how is bump? 

xxxxxx


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## Jo Macmillan (Mar 19, 2007)

Bloomin eck Nix - how many bubbles!!!!

Pix, Juicy, Nix and Angel - I'll blow you some back soon. However, I have just poured myself a large G and T (at THIS time of the day!) What a lush I am. I blame my friend - as we both work from home we used to have friday club and have g and t's to start the weekend on friday afternoon. I have a tricky porfolio to mark now - couldn't face it without a stiff drink. And I'm a bit stressed about the lack of progress on the baby front. (again.) Must remeber to clean my teeth before DP comes home and thinks I'm a raging alcoholic.....

Angel - the DHEa has been going ok in that I haven't had tooo many side effects, except some mood swings. It hasn't been going ok in that I'm not pregnant yet.   Sigh. I just ordered some more this afternoon - micronised this time - cost me $50-00 but it's cheaper than tx...... I do have loads of faith in it - I've seen so many good results on this thread, so I won't give up. 

I know a few of you have -ve comments from your DP/H's for being on FF. Mine too. Last night he looked over my shoulder and said he didn't like it when I came on FF as he felt I was "becoming obssessed."    I thought I'd been quite relaxed and laid-back about the fact that I'm totally barren and on the fertility scrapheap. But what do I know? Hmph. Anyway, a big row ensured (obviously) as i explained that you girls are the opnly ones I can talk to about it as he won't. I think that hit home - he admitted he's terrified of facing tx in case we find out there's a problem with his swimmers. (My IVF cycle was with my ex.) My current DP has never had a sperm analysis. He admitted he doesn't think he'll cope if his sperm count / motility is low. (Even though he smokes and drinks loads, and I try not to nag him about it, but he knows what effect this will have on his fertility.) Anyway, he's agreed that once we've moved house (at the end of this month) and are settled, we can talk about our options. We started ttc last november (14 months ago), and I honestly think he thought I was being silly when I said we wouldn't find it easy to conceive cos of my 1 tube and lack of eggs. Now he's beginning to realise I was right. B loody men, honestly.

Love to you all, I must try and get this marking done before the g and t and oblivion kicks in. x

Kate - just saw your post - hi hon - I will blow you some later too!


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

Kate: Missed you post chick  – Thanks my eye is better. I stopped winking at strangers now. 

Jo and everyone: How do you blow bubbles??


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## angel555 (Apr 7, 2008)

slycett said:


> Angel i tried dhea but started feeling quite depressed and headachy, mite try 25mg for one week then 50mg and then 75mg see if thats makes a difference cos im gonna need all the help i can get too. Will def get some wheatgrass tho, can you get it from holland and barrat?


Kate, H&B sell pure wheatgrass juice, which is easier to take in but I soon realised that it has green tea, and therefore caffeine. I'm not sure just how much green tea it contains, and whether that much caffeine would be detrimental. So I chose the pure wheatgrass powder instead. Its horrible tasting but try mixing it with juice. If you can check out the potential caffeine content in the wheatgrass juice, I'd go for that.

DHEA has left me with a horribly spotty face (no other side effects luckily) while the wheatgrass shots gave me the runs.  Perfect excuse for me to be a recluse.  But hey, no one can say that we don't try.


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## angel555 (Apr 7, 2008)

Jo, sorry about the row. But sounds like progress if DP wants to consider and talk about it. Would he be willing to take some supplements in the meantime to help along with your natural TTC?


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Pixie - blimey, that's what I CALL a package ! golden handshake indeed!  Were you tended to by a well known tv tressmaster?  so glad you're pleased.  I spend a fair bit on mine but still always whine about it when i get home, drives dh mad!

bump is good thanks love   I dropped my purse on floor of the ladies earlier and a million coins came out. I was all   as bending down is now fairly undignified operation!  

you will be making full use of that mat package before you know it    

Jo, enjoy the G&T!  have you pointed out to your other half that a lot of the time we spend on here is fun (rather than purely an IF info exchange) and there is a lot of poo talk?!  happy marking x


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Cooo!  I got loadsabubbles!!!  And a sore finger!

Hey Jojo God I wish I was there, I like the sound of a club that involves getting stuck into the booze at 3 on a Friday afternoon!!  Sorry your DP is being such a .... bloke! but it seems they're all the bloody same. They're all in total denial that there could be a problem and follow the ostrich method of dealing with it. And then criticise us for finding people to talk to that actually understand and aren't going to accuse us of obsessing.  I get that b0ll0x all the time but I just ignore him now. I don't need his approval to do what ever I need to do to get me thru this crap - he doesn't have to like it!   to you hon and yeah as angel says why not see whether he's be willing to give the wellman supps a try....?  Can't do any harm can it?

Angel - uurrgh re the wheatgrass powder! Fortunately I had that Jason Vale juice diet book which gives good ideas for different types of juices and smoothies including the dreaded wheatgrass powder. Nothing quite masks the taste and it always turns the juices sludge green (or maybe that was the spirulina..?) anyhoo at least it's edible!

Pixie - glad your eyeball's better!  

Love to all, I'd better move my  and get to the supermarket before the Friday after work rush!

xxx


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

Oh bless you Lucy! I don’t know the feeling but I’m sure bending down is a nightmare for you. Did nobody help you?  

Nix: happy supermarket shopping hun - that should cheer you up  

xxxxxxx


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## Jo Macmillan (Mar 19, 2007)

Nixf01 said:


> Cooo! I got loadsabubbles!!! And a sore finger!
> 
> I get that b0ll0x all the time but I just ignore him now. I don't need his approval to do what ever I need to do to get me thru this crap - he doesn't have to like it!


i'm loving your work Nix......


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## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

Jo -  Ahhh hun my dh was just the same but lately and especially since we got a laptop and im on it downstairs he doesnt moan so much    In fact lately he's been looking at the pics of all the girls on here (im worried now  ) and even reading posts with me.  I think he though that all we EVER talked about is ttc and tx, and he was also worried i was becoming obsessed.  Im mean i was actually becoming obsessed but since joining the pr thread dont think im half as bad.  Now he realises we talk about poo and lady gardens as well he's not so worried    

Pix - glad the eye is better hun   Please try and be careful next time ur pegging ur the washing out  

Nix - enjoy the shopping petal think im gonna forget the diet for this weekend as just not motivated.  Mite have a blow out and re-start monday as i still have chocolate to eat from xmas  

Juicy - I agree with u hun on joining a friday club,   i could just do a jd and coke but dont think the boss would be too impressed 

Angel - uuughhh do u just havce to take it on the 2ww or do u have start before, anything that i dont like the look of will be get me gagging  

Kate
xxxxxxxxx


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## Jo Macmillan (Mar 19, 2007)

Oh Kate - don't worry Hun - you can join my friday club. I'll have a J and D and coke for you - think we have some somewhere. How's that?!

Pix - the bubble thing is quite easy, you just click on the 'blow me some bubbles' bit under the profile name!

Angel, Juicy, Nix - yep, he has siad he'll take supplements. Nut I just know I'll have to nag him to take them every day, and I'll feel like his b loody mother! Oh well, needs must.

I love you all! (I love everyone after a couple of gins!) x


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Pixie75 said:


> Nix: happy supermarket shopping hun - that should cheer you up
> xxxxxxx


Ah gerroff!!!



slycett said:


> think im gonna forget the diet for this weekend as just not motivated. Mite have a blow out and re-start monday as i still have chocolate to eat from xmas
> xxxxxxxxx


YEAH! Diet-schmiet!   

OKOKOK I'm going to the damn supermarket (AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGH - SAVE ME!!!)

xxx


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Just quickly as I am still in shock after seeing my friend and her 5 year old son. Wanted to cancel but seeing as she had made the effort and she lives in Sweden most of the time I should go....

'Devil Boy' pinched me within 5 mins of sitting down then proceeded to kick me, punch me, spit on me, stab me with a fork, this is no joke and all 'Mum' said was "Boys eh  " I am sorry but its not just me is it, most boys are not like that are they?! 

He is truly revolting, so revolting that he completely ruined our lunch. I couldnt get away quick enough, made an excuse about taking cat to the vet! I didnt manage to hide my disgust too well, but why should I, she should see how awful he is and do something about it!! 

Arghhhhhhhhh!

A xxxx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Pix - there was no one around though I was worried that someone would barge in as me bending down was not a pretty sight  

Ally nooooooo!!  that is NOT what little boys are normally like.  Mum is not doing him any favours sending him out into the world like that where no one will like him  

well done for resisting the urge to stab him back with your fork!


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

Ally: Oh FFS ! Why did you let him do that to you? You should have bit him back   – that would teach him what the girls are like.  Your friend sounds like she is doing a good job on him – NOT!

Nix: Are you still here?    Yes I can see you are still here   

Jo: Thanks hun.  I’ve just worked it out. Silly me though, I was trying to blow bubbles to myself and thinking there is no blow button on mine !    

xxxxx


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Ally thats so annoying, i hate it when parents laugh and think their kids are being cute when in fact they are little  !! my friend has two lovely but boisterous boys and a few years ago I went over to see her and her youngest kept running over to me when i was sat on the sofa and kicking me and kept doing it and doing it, i kept saying 'stop now please thats naughty' and mum and dad just laughed with that gaga look on their face thinking 'ahhh how cute is my little boy' i was so angry!! i really hate it when parents don;t keep their kids inline but then i think sh!t what if I turn into one of those parents! eek!


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## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

Ally - im so sorry hunny thats horrible    i dont agree with slapping children but think i would have made an exception for him.  I think in this case we can only blame the parents hunny the way they have bought him up to be    what a horrible spoilt child.  Perhaps you should make up a list of excuses for when ur friend next contacts you and wants to meet, im afriad thats what i would do, cos i really cant be doing with bratty kids  

Zuri ditto ur friends child hun, what a brat.  

Hi pixie, hi juicy


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Pixie75 said:


> Nix: Are you still here?   Yes I can see you are still here


Ooops! Busted    

Ally - he sounds like a little sod and believe me there's no WAY I'm gonna let my kids carry on like that! Not with the upbringing I had! Every Jamaican child knows the _first _warning is a slap (a gentle one but a slap nonetheless!) Usually followed by the fateful words, should you dare to start snivelling...."Yu waaan somting to cry for?" believe me, you pull yourself together pretty damn quick then!   

OK now I'm really going the queues at the till are going to be HORRIFIC!!!

xxxx


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Pixie75 said:


> illy me though, I was trying to blow bubbles to myself and thinking there is no blow button on mine !


   ....

... ALL RIGHT I'm GOING!!!!

xxxx


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## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

NIX    -    GO SHOPPING....................NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!     

This is easily the funniest kindest most supportive thread on here


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## Little Me (Aug 29, 2008)

Hi girls

Ally's friends lad sounds like the devils child. How horrible for you hun.

everyone ok?

xxxx


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

Nix mate, oh you crack me EVERY time!!     
It's been more than an hour since you said you were going out yet you are still here!!

Bobs: Yeah the hair looks great hun but me - not so much!!   

Anne: I hope you are reading all this sweetie, we need to put that lovely simel back on your face again  

xxxxx


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

oh there you are honey


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## Little Me (Aug 29, 2008)

I'm here   You lot really do make me   

Just trying to think what to do at the weekend and haven't a clue  

Whats everyone doing?

xxxx


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## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

Hi anne - im popping to merry hell 2moz with a friend as is my satday of not working.  Apparantly barratts have gone into admin so they may have loads of shoes in the sale and they do size 2's in adult style hun, so im gonna go and treat myself.  Glad ur still with us sweetie, we would be lost without you on here   .  U can do whatever you want this weekend hun but dont feel u "have" to be doing something.  If you have had enough of being in the house, just go for a drive or out for some lunch, go visit merry hill or just stay in and watch dvd's have a drink and eat chocolate.   

Bobbi - i'll join you a jo in a drink hun, think i mite take me a jd coke up in the bath later - oh i love weekends off


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

Anne: Why don’t you go and see a light-hearted film - “Bride Wars” looks like a good example.   I know my DH won’t go anywhere near a film like that but I might just go with a few friends - ops [email protected] just realised I cut them all out


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## purple72 (Jul 25, 2008)

You ladies make me giggle!

But just as I've caught up again hubby's now up to get ready for his night so must go make him a drink

Love to all

Sx


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## Little Me (Aug 29, 2008)

was wondering about a film actually but I need to shower and  get rid of my BO before going anywhere - can't believe I haven't so much as washed my pits and bits yet today !
I am on the same road as you Pix ( and most others on here) for cutting off my friends- how bad is that, and since yesterdays crap news I can feel myself cutting off even more in the near future.
I sound bitter and I'm really not but I only seem to talk to you lot these days  

xxxx


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

Bob's stop stalking me please


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Anne    know what you mean about cutting off friends, this year I decided to live life to the full and see as many as possible...x


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## elinor (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi everyone

just a quick post - I will now try to catch up with this thread at least before I post any personals. I have been awol for a while - since just before my EC, if my dates are correct.... I got signed off work, as earache etc did not improve, and gp thought it might be shingles (had a rash of strange bumps on my neck). Felt totally wiped out. Managed as long as I did mainly not very much, and my mum came to stay (which helped quite a bit with the not donig much). EC was fine - 3 eggs (and I think the penicillin they give really helped my earache - the GP said they don't give antibiotics for that kind of thing any more, unless it is persistent or something, but at EC in Edinburgh they give it with the IV sedation just to reduce risks of infection). The dreaded phone call the day after told me that 2 fertilised, and on Monday I had both replaced - both grade 2, which is the best I have ever had (have managed usually one grade 2 and the other not so good).

Anyway, I am now well into the 2ww and absolutely normal for that - terrified one minute that it won't work, then hopelessly optimistic....

Am back at work next week, but planning to take at least 2 half days as am still pretty knackered all the time.

Hope everyone is well - I will now catch up on this thread and then try to post again.

love
Elinor xx


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

Bobs: The girls are probably confused as to what we are laughing at    It's between us isn't it?  

Anne: I see cutting off friends is a kind of self defence hun. Being anti social isn’t great but if that means you give yourself some time until you feel better then I can’t see any harm in doing it. 

My “friend” has been texting me and my DH non stop since I’ve told her I was upset with her but the damage is done now – I can’t feel better about her what ever she does for me now. It sounds harsh but I can’t help it. 

Hello Beach  

OMG welcome back Elinor - haven't read your post yet, hope all is OK.

xxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Hi Pix how are you?


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## Little Me (Aug 29, 2008)

Hope you all have a lovely weekend 
I have had my shower now so am at least clean - on and also just had bill for additional ICSI     

thanks again girls


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

Anne the Lister didn’t hang around then.   hell give her some time to recover at least!  It’s a real kick in the teeth isn’t it. Oh hun – I’m so sorry.


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

Beach: I’m OK hun – struggling on (not really!) You ok?  

Elinor: That’s brilliants news hun.   Well done on being a PUPO lady.

Gosh, how many PUPO’s do we have here now? Erm... one PUPO at a time please.. 
I'm getting confused   

xx


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## Maisie74 (Sep 4, 2008)

Just a quickie as got to go get sorted for Guides (i do wonder sometimes why i put so much effort into it and give up my friday nights but mostly theyre really lovely and i love that they get so much out of it)

Zuri, Angel, Elinor and Donkey      for you girls and lots of   for you all

Anne -     for you hun, its perfectly normal to feel worse the few days after, its when it all kinds of sinks in, you and Jason look after each other this weekend and just take it easy

Pix - tough day at the hairdressers then  

Hello everyone else, wil be back later for more.

DH decided yesterday he would go skiing this weekend - he spouted some load of crappola about not thinking it an appropriate time to leave me but what did i think  - anyway told him to go so 3 days peace and quiet!!! plan to be a complete hermit all weekend and will only venture out to go to the gym..maybe.. i have loads of stuff on the v+ box recorded so a proper slob out weekend - ahhh isnt it wonderful to be a recluse   

LOL xxxx


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Natasha - I would love to come and reclusify myself with you and your V+ box   I find that arrangements outside of the house really interfere with my hermit time  

Anne - well done for getting up and washing hon, I think that is pretty good going isn't it girls?! I am not sure I washed for a few days after my last disappointment! Still thinking of you both   I am sorry that I got that bloody bill through too, just what you needed. I remember after my last tx I got a letter from an endocrinologist saying that I had post menopausal FSH levels and should commence HRT asap! That REALLY cheered me up! As the girls say, just do what you can this weekend, if that means not much then so be it, cuddle cuddle and cuddle more is the only thing I would urge you to do   Don't worry about not seeing friends if that is what you don't want to do, true friends will be there when you want to make contact again whenever that be  

Pixel - How is your lovely new hair, bet it looks amazing, you have great hair! 

Missy - how did that scan go??  

Ali - how about you, how was your scan?  

Angel - welcome back honey! Congrats pupo lady!!! 

Elinor - well done for being pupo hon - that is brilliant news, you and Zuri and Angel can all keep each other sane!!! 

Nix - have you been to the shops yet? there will be nothing left if you don't get out there. You cracked me up with your Jamaican mum thing. I went out with a Bajan guy for 3 years, his mum didn't take no crap from him or anyone else. I think the softly softly approach to parenting has a lot to answer for   

Bobbi - can you stop stalking my sister pix please - I thought everyone knew she was MINE!! Oh I nearly did stab the little sh!t with my fork, no seriously it did cross my mind to give him a bit of a talking to, but I thought I might come off worse  

Kate, Juicy, purps etc etc need to read back and do your personals in a min!!


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Pix- I;m the same, trying to keep going otherwise I'd never get up....


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## Ali27 (Jul 13, 2007)

Elinor - congratulations hon on being PUPO with 2 on board!   

Bad news from me I'm afraid.  had scan today with Alison as Jalia was away.  Told her I was cacking it.  She was reassuring and the first thing she said was that my lining was looking very good - excellent thickness.  But then she looked at my left ovary which showed one "huge fella" at 17mm and 2 other vvvv tiny ones at around 8-10mm each and 2 the same small size on the right.  She said I would need to talk to someone about what to do - up the meds etc.  

I waited and saw Suki??  Basically, she said the reponse is not optimal.  The smaller ones wont catch up before my lining would start shedding, even if they were stimulated at the cost of the large fella and going for IVF with the large one only was too much of a costly gamble.  She said that I should try a fresh cycle perhaps with a higher dose.  Options are to trigger tomorrow night and go for IUI Monday or trigger tomorrow night and have timed sex.  She asked if i had a partner as I was there with a female friend.  i said I did (??) and would need to talk to him.  But booked the IUI anyway as can cancel tomorrow if cant make it.  

Have spoken to DP/exDP who cannot do Monday due to work commitments and to be fair I had said he would have more notice than that and it was likely to be end of next week.  He also said he cant help "the other way" as he is working away all next week.  He has said, without me asking, if he could take in a sample to be frozen and for me to do with what i like.  We will then go our separate ways.  I have just text him to ask if it would be worth me seeing if he could give a sample tomorrow to be kept for Monday - do they do that at short notice? And also said that i could travel if he was happy to give a fresh sample directly!  How weird is that??   Not had a reply yet.

Feel weirdly ok.  Not sure it has sunk in properly.  

Sorry i've not had time to catch up on all the news today.  Will try to and then post personals.

Anne - thanks for your texts.  Sorry not replied to the last one but was driving - to keep my mind occupied.   

Missyg - sorry for not replying to your text either - same as above.  Glad you got it all sorted in the 45 mins and good luck for Monday's scan    Shame we didn't meet.


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Ali   gosh whata  lot to be faced with, at least dp(ex dp) is being good about it allx


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Jo - so pleased you and DP had that chat, that is so so positive, I think you are moving in the right direction now together. Its so hard when DP/ DH drink and smoke, men are so stubborn and won't listen to a thing we say, thankfully mine doesn't smoke and doesn't drink that often but you can guarentee that a bender happens during tx which really really winds me up  

Juice - honey pie - I can't see your pretty bump piccie   I am the only one   Can you put it on **    

Steph - I think its time for a new bump pic from you no? Or am I ahead of myself? Obviously getting too excited!!

Zuri - you totally got it on the little . I have another friend (believe it or not) whose little boy wanted to look at my charm bracelet (which is very very special to me as Ben has built it up from nothing over the 5 years we have been together) so I gave him the bracelet and kept an eye on him, he started throwing it all around the room, bashing it on the wall etc, my friend just ignored it, so I had to go and try and prise it out of his hands (as nicely as I possibly could seeing as my friend was in the room     ) and he kicked me in the face!! She did NOTHING!! Don't worry your little'ns won't be like that though!! 

Ali - you just snuck in there, I am so sorry that the response was not better this time, but you got a golden follie and now we just have to make sure you get some of your DP's swimmers! What a head f uck trying to work that out! You are doing so so so well sweetheart, so impressive. 

Hiya Beachy hon xxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Hi Ally, how are you?  I'm waiting for DH to get home....


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## purple72 (Jul 25, 2008)

Ali    you are such a wonderfully stong woman, so sorry this is such a struggle for you! It's hard enough going through all this without all the additional stress you have hunny! Sending the biggest of PR   through the t'internet!

Maybe he could provide a sample and you could use a syringe?!?! 

Sx


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## purple72 (Jul 25, 2008)

Ally you seem to meet all the children from hell! But your much calmer than me! I would have had to say something to both of the mums! What are they bringing up bl00dy hooligans!?!?


----------



## elinor (Jul 4, 2008)

OK, so I have read at least THIS thread, but not sure if I am fully up to date. Anyway:

Anne - I am so so sorry. I know how I felt the first time I had zero fertilisation - really devastated, like you must feel. Also so up and down - trying to be 'brave' about it, as as it hasn't worked you just have to pick yourself up etc, then falling into this abyss of emptiness. But I had a cycle like that in October - EC and only 2 in November last year, and now am PUPO! So don't right your eggs off after just one cycle - it all varies from month to month. I have never had 2 grade 2 embryos before - best has been one grade 2 and one grade 3, only difference this time was dhea so I don't think you lose anything by trying it.

Pixie - hope hairdressers was fun apart from RSI due to texting from Ipod!

Zuri - congratulations on being PUPO! really hope this works for you first time (and you get to use the frosties for a sibling later on!)

Donkey - congrats to you too - are you the first to be testing? I go a week today and am already dreading it. Not going to do the hpts since I want to enjoy being PUPO as long as possible - I like your comment that if it was negative you'd be disheartened, but even if it was positive you wouldn't believe it! 

Angel - Can't leave you out! best wishes and hope this time brings you the longed for result. Any symptoms yet? When do you test? 

Popsi - good to hear the social worker visit went ok. I don't do Child and Family SW, but am a social worker - I would almost always say yes to biscuits, coffee not so much since I have been on treatment but when I worked with older adults always accepting the offer of a tea or coffee was sometimes actually a sneaky opportunity to check out their kitchen skills (sometimes not great when you had to drink it though - I still remember the elderly chap with dementia who remembered you added boiling water to something in a mug, but clearly had forgotten what the 'something' should be - what I thought was the teabag still floating in the cup was raw chunks of liver left by the home help in the fridge for his tea!). Hope the other visits go well, and that they match you at the earlliest opportunity.

Natasha - hope you enjoy a weekend on your own and lots of slouching in front of tv. Sounds like a great way to spend time - and we all need to be a recluse every now and then - as long as you come on here you are still keeping in contact with people, so you're not a total hermit!

Sam22 - thanks for all the fab research info. It is so goo to come on here and find people like you who look into all sorts of aspects of this that I never know where to start with. 

Bobbi - hope all is well with you too - if you get bored stalking Pixie, don't worry there aer plenty of us on here! 

Laura - lovely to log on and see new pic of the little ones - hope you MIL stops being quite so monstrous one day, and hope you get through to having more than 45 mins sleep soon! You are amazing to find any time to keep up on here.

Kate - wish I could join you in a drink, but hope I will have a long wait for that.... Maybe I will be up to shoe shopping over the weekend though... 

Nix - hope you are actually away shopping by now. More importantly, hope you feel positive about idea of FET - given the info from Sam and Bobbi about different protocols and approaches etc. 

Ally - only just spotted your post.    to endocrinologists!! Hope you are dealing with it ok.

Ali - nearly posted without seeing your update - OMG! at least you have a golden follie, and (ex)DP willing to help out (a bit). Hope something can be organised for IUI. What a lot you are going through. I hope it is the magic follie this time, and that everything works out for DP's contribution (I had one way ahead of the others in Oct/Nov, the decision then was to sacrifice that one and hope the others grew on a bit (endo was ok for that) - It was no good, but only one other had an egg at EC and neither fertilised - felt after that trying IUI with the one at optimum might have been better, but it is easy in hindsight....). Thinking of you 

BEachy - happy friday!

Jo, Becca, Purple, Miranda, Steph and everyone else - all best wishes. I am getting broadband (finally) next Wednesday, so might actually manage to post more regularly after that. Sorry I missed out on more poo and lady gardens... I am sure thee themes will turn up again one day!

Hope Lewis had a great birthday

Love to everyone
Elinor xx


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Purps - I know imagine the poor girls who get to marry them when they are grown up   You have your Lister appointment on Monday don't you? Have you got a good list of questions written up? Good luck hon, really good luck xxxx

Beachy - I am doing okay thanks hon, on CD5 today, started my stims yesterday, started clomid CD2, not feeling an awful lot down there, trying to pretend like it's not really happening! Hoping this reverse psychology helps!! Where is DH? Is he back soon? What are you up to this weekend? xxxx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Elinor - wondered where you were, so glad you were being productive while absent   .  Keeping everything crossed for you

Ali, sorry chuck, that is not what you wanted to hear though if DP was due to be away next week, i guess the timing wouldn't have been brilliant for his part anyway?  Not sure they can hold onto a sample for more than an hour or two and ditto for freezing.  You travelling to him sounds hopeful though (depending on where he is).  good luck with the logistics...

Beachgirl, this sounds promising for your dh - you waiting for his arrival  

Ally good grief what a set of horrors your mates are raising!! will put a better pic on ** than this one. need to change my profile pic as being realistic, my face is twice that size ! let alone my   
You are a saint for meeting her today I reckon

Natasha I might have stuck with guides longer if we'd had a fit and glam leader like you!  instead of a mean old lady 

hi purps - cor another nightmare MIL.  these stories have helped me keep things in perspective re mine !! hope you had a good afternoon at work x


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## purple72 (Jul 25, 2008)

Congrats Elinor on being Pupo!!

Ally!!! Thanks hun but no not got any questions prepared, think all my questions have been used up, was going to just see what they advised but now you have said that I'm getting a bit concerned, feel like school kid who hasn't done homework  

To be honest all I want to know is can we cycle and when?!?!?

But I guess I should be more prepared  

And as for the women those boys end up with, the only thing I can say is it wont be any of our daughters! they wouldn't take [email protected] like that  

Just had a lovely image of our daughters all chatting together about their mums!! I think so many of us PR's will have bumps& babes this year that when we all meet up we'll need a huge creche, maybe we need to have a huge one in our village, one that doesn't allow eveil devil children or their parents to enter  

Sx


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## Little Me (Aug 29, 2008)

Ali- I replied on Lister thread - I am so sorry hun  

Elinor- Thank you and congrats to you wishing you lots of luck hun  

   Ally, Pix, Beachy, Popsi, Lainey, Nat, Nix, Laura, Sam, NikkiW, Donkey, Zuri, Juicy, Angel, Bobbi, Kate, Purple, Beccka, Mir, Steph, Tracey, Kazzie, Fishy, Missy, Jo, JenniG


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Anne  

Purps - Oh I am so sorry I didn't want to make you feel bad about questions, I am just a nutter, I think my brain is over active or something, I always have so many questions and never trust any of them to do the research on my behalf, drives Ben mad   I love the image of all our gorgeous daughters chatting away, and us all chatting away all content, love it!! 

Juice - I really didnt want to go at all, I just didnt think of an excuse quickly enough so ended up having to go through with it, saint no, wimp yes!


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## Ali27 (Jul 13, 2007)

Thanks to everyone for your good wishes, for thinking of me earlier and for your messages this evening.  one of the main reasons I feel able to cope with all this is because of all your invaluable support.    A big thank you to each and every one of you.  You are all amazing and i have to beg the question - why is this happening to the loveliest people?

Purple - i owe you!  I'm obviously not thinking straight.   Text DP about the syringe.  He replied almost instantly and said "I'd rather have sex".  Set for Sunday.  This is too weird!  

Juicy - he is working and staying in Uxbridge next week.  I live in Southampton.  With notice, he could have come to the clinic but to tell him today about Monday is too short notice.  Plus there is an importnat meeting on and he is too bloomin' honourable to take a sicky.

This is such a long shot as have used a cleablue monitor and had plenty of timed sex so is there really any point?


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## purple72 (Jul 25, 2008)

Ali! Go girl....

You know how we all feel about long shots...... bring it on!

I hope Sunday is just what you need and the Golden Follie contains the egg for exDH swimmers to meet! When do you trigger then tonight?

Good luck hun, Sx


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Ali - of course there is a point, just because there are odds that say this may not result in a pregnancy, there are also odds that it will, so I say you go for it and know that we are all behind you 100% although you will have to do the deed without us actually there!! We will be thinking of you   Sounds like a fab follie anyway xxxx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Ali - that's great he'd rather have sex, and hopefully this means you will be conceiving somewhere other than Uxbridge  

i know what you mean about timed sex but the clearblue monitors only tell half the story really - this time you know for absolute definite that you have a great follie and a great lining and the trigger will mature the egg at the right time etc 

Just as well too, as I bet you've spent a bit more on this cycle than on an OPK!
will think of you on sunday ...if that's not too weird


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

ally- off to scarborough tomorrow to visit friends

Juicy- I wish...as soon as he gets home i'm off for a bath after corrie


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## Ali27 (Jul 13, 2007)

Beach - enjoy Scarborough!  

Juicy -   I dont think that I have the right to call anything weird at the moment!!  

Ally - Thanks hon   DIY for me then!  I'm pretty handy with a pot of paint; just dont let me near a drill.  Remember that ad for that god-awful magazine NUTS - "women, dont expect any help on a Wednesday/Thursday"?? or similar and there was that woman will the drill losing control of it and bouncing it across a wall - thats me!

Purple - I trigger tomorrow night at 10pm.  She told me to jab with menopur tonight but no more sniffing - does that sound right?  What if that big fella pops when I stop sniffing?


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Alli really sorry your scan didn;t go to plan today, hope you can sort something out with DOP next week

Hello everyone else, sorry a bit rubbish on the personals today struggling to engage brain and remember what everyone is up to

But thinking of you all non the less

Anne thats sh it that they have sent you the bill already!!

x


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## Ali27 (Jul 13, 2007)

Zuri - sort something out with DOP - what, department of psychiatry!!   Think I need to mate!

Anne - yeah - I was half expecting my bill for today to have been waiting for me when i got home!  like sh!t off a shovel, teh lister with them bills.  Thieving beggers!!


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

hehe oops sorry alli meant DP!! Typing too fast again


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## angel555 (Apr 7, 2008)

Ali - sorry to hear your news hun. But as Ally rightly said, there are some odds of this working, so you've got to hold on to hope. There are success stories of women getting pg on their first IUI, so it does happen. Hope you can sort out arrangements with DP.

Beach - enjoy your weekend in Scarborough

Ally - sorry can't keep up, but when do you go for the next scan? Regarding your friends kids, that is just outrageous. Seriously, are the mothers that oblivious to the fact that their kids are behaving like brats?? How can they let their kids get away with kicking / hurting anyone at all? 

Elinor - thats fab news. Congrats on being PUPO. I test this weekend......YIKES!!!!!!!!!!  No symptoms at all. Just feeling very very hungry all the time. And thats no sign of anything except that maybe I need to get a bit more active and stop eating out of boredom.

Purple - I like your vision of our daughters meeting up. Do you think they will be discussing our   tendencies, and trying to see which one of them has the nuttiest mum?  I'm assuming this is in our PR village that Ally is going to set up?
Good luck for your appointment, hope you get some answers.

Natasha - enjoy the DH free zone lounging around and not having to explain being on FF.  

Anne - do something nice for yourself this weekend.   

Anne, Pix and Ally I'm with you on cutting off all friends. I did decide to start making more of an effort since a few weeks back but manage to keep putting it off for yet another week. Still got some voice messages that I really need to respond to but just don't seem to have the energy to talk  . Its especially difficult when others don't know what we're going through and we don't want to talk about it. How do you explain what you've been up to? One of DH's friend's wife came out with "oh, and you don't even have any kids yet, then you'll know what busy is".  

Nix - did you finnaly get the shopping done? Its funny when the others were reminding you to get off the computer and go, I remembered that I too need to do some shopping. Done it now!

Going to post this before I lose the post.


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## angel555 (Apr 7, 2008)

Kate - the wheatgrass does look like sludge whatever you put it in. But its said to improve the quality of the uterus lining and improve blodd flow.


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## angel555 (Apr 7, 2008)

BTW, what is with Bobbi and Ally fighting over Pixie? Any ideas anyone?


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## purple72 (Jul 25, 2008)

Ali, not sure about the trigger, just looked through all my notes from last 2 attempts but couldn't see anything about when I stopped sniffing prior to trigger? Sorry not to be of more help but I'm sure she told you right hunny

Try not to worry too much, just enjoy tomorrow and then do what you need on Sunday, so glad he opted for the real thing rather than syringe   as others have said I'll be thinking about you! (although that does sound wierd  )

Angel yes in our PR village, I think they'll be swapping nutty mother stories! and wondering how we all got to be such fab friends   They will definately be embarressed by our poo/ladygarden stories, but apart from that they will be lovely lovely children

Sx


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## angel555 (Apr 7, 2008)

Purp - you forgot to mention they will be well mannered too.


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Angel - she is gorrrrggggeous, that's why   

DH 'friend'  

Seriously it would be so wonderful if one day we could all meet up together, I know it is probably naive to think we could coordinate that but it would be so so lovely xxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Ally- it would be excellent wouldn't it...


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hello dears!

Just a quickie as i'm bushed after reading ten pages - how on earth do you do it? 

Zuri - well done on being pupo! Hoorah! And frosties!

Ally - Christ, some people just sit there putting up with bad behaviour from their offspring! Gah. It's horrible to look at a kid and think, ew, you horror...  There's a kid in the village who I absolutely can't stand - I must get over it! Though how I don't know - yuk.

Ali - he's being amazing, considering. Hope he's got some good 'uns in there after all that! Pity you can't put them under a scope... but in the absence of that you'll just have to shag like bunnies I guess?  

Speaking of which, I was in ann Summer today - first afternoon off in seven months! - and looked at the Rabbits... but there are so many!!! Couldn't quite bring myself to make a purchase...  

Anne - my goodness that was bloody quick! How horrible. They tried to charge me for a follow-up afte my BFN and I had to really create to get the bean counters to understand why I was so narky.
They tried to justify it by saying the FU was with a different cons - until I told them I'd had a different cons for every single stage of my tx. Eejits.  

Elinor - congrats on being pupo! I'm crossing bits of myself that those grade 2s turn into a brace of babies for you!

Bum - got to the bottom of the page now and can't remember what was before! Ach, forgive me - am bushed.

xxxxx


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## angel555 (Apr 7, 2008)

Ally1973 said:


> Seriously it would be so wonderful if one day we could all meet up together, I know it is probably naive to think we could coordinate that but it would be so so lovely xxxx


Seeing as most of us have cut off our friends from our lives anyway, all the ladies on here are our new friends. So yeah, it would be lovely to chat with friends who actually understand our feelings. And instead of a swear box, we should have two boxes for the words "poo" and "lady garden" and anything associated with those words. We'll collect a hefty sum at the end of the night.


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## purple72 (Jul 25, 2008)

And then the poo & Lady garden boxes could pay for the next meet! Maybe we should make it an annual thing! So all our well mannered little one's can play happily together

Just the slight problem of conceiving them first but hey, us PR ladies do love a challenge   And some of us are leading the way, laura, mir and all you other yummy mums and ladies with bumps 

Anyway enough from me off to bed now

Sx


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## Ali27 (Jul 13, 2007)

Angel -   for you Ms PUPO!  

Miranda - is the follow up free even if you dont get to EC/ET?  

Purple - thanks for hunting through your notes hon - what a sweetie you are.  Last person who did that for me was Missy who was then sent into blind panic as they had messed up her dosage and she discovered she was taking a higher amount of the d'regging than her consultant had prescribed.    Obviously it was good she found out sooner rather than later but I caused her a sleepless night.


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## angel555 (Apr 7, 2008)

Good night Purple  

Thanks Ali. I was going to test tomorrow morning, but we have to go to a kid's birthday party in the evening. If its a BFN, I won't be able to handle it. As it is I have agreed to go out to a party with loads of people after absolutely ages. 

So we've decided to leave it till Sunday.


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## purple72 (Jul 25, 2008)

just wish i could have given you an answer hun  

Enjoy your sniff free day I hated that stuff and am dreading them telling me they want to D/regg me again. Hoping they can just stimulate me instead.

Have a good weekend hun

Hugs to you and all the other lovely lovely ladies on here

Night Angel just seen your post, I'll be thinking of you sunday too!!!! Enjoy your party hunny

Sxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Night night purple honey  

Angel - I had no idea your test date was so close - how exciting!! Sending you loads of     

Mir - I think there will always be revolting children out there, no matter what some may say all children are not gorgeous, I think that we had better just give the unpleasant ones a wide berth!! I don't know how to get over it either, I mean I know this is only a child, this shouldn't cause me such heartache should it!! 

Ali - hope you and your golden follie sleep well tonight  

I should sleep soon too xxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Girls..got something to ask you..

We'd made plans for some friends of Alex's to come over at the end of Feb, then yesterday he told Alex that they would be having his children that weekend and therefore could they bring them over..would it be really rude of us to say either we'll re arrange to suit their free nights, meet them at a local bowling alley or yes that's fine but could they eat before they come...(sounds rude that one doesn't it)


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## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

Evening ladies 

There i was earlier thinking i was gonna have a nice quiet nite bath a jd, and what do i end up doing Helping a neighbour rip out an old kitchen     I am shattered   just got out of bath h  2 walnut whips  and on my 2nd jd so a bit tiddly as not used to drinking anymore.

Ali - hunny hope you and ex-dp manage to hit that golden follie on sunday, i will have everything crossed for you that this is one  

Beachy - enjoy scarborough hun hav a nice weekend 

Elinor congrats on being pupo wow thats four now you donkey zuri and angel good luck to all four of you  

Anne - hi my little brummie buddy   Hope u are ok, i cant stop thinking about u and jay and hoping you are both ok, you are right about cutting fertile friends off tho, but if they are true friends they will understand as best they can.  But still i dont think anyone quite understands like we do, the hope, the fear and the emotions can only be understood by someone who has been through it.  I have to admit i found my 2nd cycle quite hard and felt very isolated and lonely apart from coming on here, its very strange as although i dont have a wide circle of friends the friends i do have i am very close to, but when cycling i seemed to cut myself off from them for some reason - self preservation i think.  Im rambling now its the drink talking i think   

Ally - hope ur ok hunny - when is ur next scan?  

Angel - thanx for info petal - i will give it a go along with the dhea again  

Purple - i would love a meet up hunny think we all deserve it and it would be a scream 

Miranda - ooh i mite pop into ann summers 2moz see if i can find somat to pep me up a bit  

Hello to zuri pixie nix becca laura fishy bobbi steph tracey nicki and everyone else, sorry my mind has gone blank 

Kate
xxxxxxxx


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## Ali27 (Jul 13, 2007)

Beach - your comment in brackets made me laugh!!  Is it that you dont want to see the children?  Or do you not want children to be eating with you?  Are they very messy children (most are!)  If you dont really want to be dealing with the kids then I think its fine to rearrange for when they are kid-free.  If its that you dont want your house trashed then I think its perfectly acceptable to suggest meeting at a bowling alley/ice rink/similar.


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## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

Beachy - or if u dont wanna upset them say ooohhhh pooooo we have double booked and cant get out of the other meet up as its the only time there here for the nex 20 years or something like that, would you mind if we re-arranged.  Does that sound saft?  If it does sorry its prob cos im ratted


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

I just feel a little like we'll be an entertainment and eating place for the night..l ast time the couple came she played on the wii and they didn't even bring a bottle ( not that I expect one) now I sound even worse


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## alegria (Dec 10, 2007)

Ali - What a bummer! Hope it works out with DP's swimmers, it needs to be at the Lister within one hour of fresh collection, I took DH's with me on the tube and kept it inside my bra (to keep it at body's temperature)  

Beachy - If you'd rather not see the children at all (especially if they behave like Allys's little friends   ) I would suggest the first option, just say that it's better to re arrange for when the're free so that you grown ups can have a proper catch up. But if you don't mind them bringing their children along, I'd then stick to the bowling alley option as they should take it as if you're suggesting a fun night out to include their little ones.

Elinor - Welcome back and congrats on being PUPO  

dimsum - Hello & welcome on board  

Anne -  Take extra care of yourself and Jason 

 everyone else!

I'm on the cutting off all friends' club too    just don't have the energy and, like angel's, our friends don't know what we're going through and we don't feel like talking about it either... 

Alegria x


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

Beachy - no I don't think that's rude - in fact if you suggest bowling, you are doing the kids AND yourself a favour as that would surely be nicer for them than being taken to an adult dinner party ?  mean that in a nice way as I'm sure they would luuurve your food

omg - just seen they didn't even bring a bottle last time.  ffs - sod em, liberty takers!!

Hi alegs


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## alegria (Dec 10, 2007)

Hi Juicy    Love the bump pic


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Beachy - not bringing a bottle and playing the Wii - God, that's SO RUDE  
They evidently behave like kids anyway! Best book a bouncy castle and lay out some sausages on sticks...

Actually, doesn't that sound like fun?   Can we have an adult bouncy castle in our village?

Ali - some great little outfits in Ann Summers today if you want him to sow his seed more than once! Ahem.

Nix - did I miss the verdict on when you're FETing?


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## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

Bobbi - we do hunny    Its like coronation street here.  We live in a little cul-de-sac and next door to us we hav a manic depressive who keeps flooding her house out, and opposite us we have an alcoholic lady who gets ratted and wonder off up the street with a bottle of wine in hand! Saying that tho we all look out for one another and have parties and bbq's all through summer, although the last bbq we had was halloween and it was freezing    I can honestly say it is a great place to live and would never have thought we would have so happy here.  My dh made friends with the fella of family who moved in a couple of years ago and i in turn have made friends with his his missus, we are always over at each others houses having a coffee or me and elaine having a sneaky *** without our dh's knowing   My dh hates me smoking with a passion and i have promised faithfully i will really try and pack it in for good this time, i wish to god i had never started.  

Beachy - if all else fails, feign an illness, ive done it more than once.  Stomach bug best as no-one wants to catch that    And not bringing a bottle thats just b loody rude 

Juicy - u reminded me of catherine tates granny - f**king liberty takers   lovely bump tho - i want one  

Miranda - and a giant slide - i've always wanted a go on one of those but scared cos my **** mite get stuck

Alegria -     hunny, tis so hard sometimes all we want to do is hibernate


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

and a soft play area big enough for adults!

mir,   at you getting bamboozled by the range in ann summers.  kwym though - how many ways ARE there to skin a cat!  so to speak  

thanks Alegs!  and Kate!  wishing you bumps, so much x

Beachy you have been 7ing everyone haven't you!   x


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## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

Oooo bobbi - i got a candy thong nipple tassles and a bra in candy dh bought me for xmas put em somewhere and cant find em now   I bought him menage e trois from ann summers c**k rub p**sy rub and masage lotion, think they are gathering dust somewhere too, oh and sex casino game too, god knows where that is      See dakota im being a good girl and not typing naughty words while p**sed


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## missyg (Jan 2, 2009)

Hi everyone - I am always so late to post everyone is probably in bed!

Alegria I have sent you a pm re thyroid - tried earlier but your box was full.

Ali - so sorry it hasn't worked out how you thought this time but maybe it IS going to work out and save you a lot of money! So glad he is happy to help you - what a lot of stress you are having to deal with. Really hope Sunday... can't quite work out what I want to say - just really hoping it goes well!!   

Ally thanks for asking - I had my scan this morning and not really sure what to make of it - she whizzed around in there and said look there are follicles on both ovaries which is amazing as my left one not been working for some time but I couldn't see anything. She didn't give me any numbers and the nurse said best not to count this early (day 4 of stimms) on as might not be there on Monday when I have to go back. She said they would call if needed to increase my dose after blood test results but haven't heard so am hoping that means good enough estrogen levels. I can't see Juicy's new photo either just the caption.

About the friends situation - I had a friend over today who told me she is 9 weeks pregnant with her second - she knows my situation very well and wanted to tell me before anyone else to give me time to deal with it. She was amazing as I promptly burst into tears - she said she would rather I cried and talked about it openly and didn't pretend to be anything I wasn't. I am happy for her and she knows that I would never wish my situation on anyone but as you all know well what it feels like you just want it to be you too. Timing wise it is not great just as I am in the middle of tx as makes me feel more pressured but that is totally selfish thinking! I just thought I would mention this as sometimes friends can be amazingly understanding if you give them a chance. I am on the other hand slightly dreading tomorrow night as is DP's birthday and we are going out to dinner with a lot of people I haven't seen for ages so am expecting the questions of when are we having no 2 as DS is now 3.5 so everyone must be wondering what is up. When friends don't ask you know they have either heard through someone who does know or are just being polite because they assume something is wrong. Not sure which is worse questions or no questions!

Love to all

Missy x


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Missy    it's so hard isn't it...hope tonight goes ok x

Sorry if I sounded a little OTT last night  ,  they are a nice couple and his children are fine and it's not obligatory to bring a bottle I know, just surprised me as I always take at least a bottle plus normally other things too...ANyway every one is different aren't they..


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Morning girls

Hope everyone is well, this thread has moved so fast, 16 pages in a day and a half!   struggling to keep up with everyones news at the moment but hope you are all well

Just want to chip in with the friends comments, I completely agree and understand, all my friends back in the uk have kids, have bumps or have just dropped, most of them know my situation but I feel like they are using the distance as a lucky excuse to avoid me! I am sure they feel uncomfortable with me, I have made some lovely friends over here but 1 of them now has a 7 month old and I feel left out with her social life now being involved around her baby and other mums, the other had her baby last week and another is 5 months pregnant, i just feel surrounded and I have also started cutting myself off from them, interestingly i have met a lovely bunch of people all 40+ and 50+ 2 of the couples have no kids and have chosen to have no kids, my other good friends had a failed IVF last year and has since split with her hubby and has accepted her future without kids, its been liberating spending time with these friends as they are a different breed to the couples with kids and I have to say I prefer their company, they have more fun and are much younger at heart, one couple is 50 and 59 and they look in their 40's and act in their 40's - it has sort of given me a different perspective on my life and what our life would be like if we could never have kids - of course I still want them and will be devastated if it never happens but I can also see a life beyond having children and it doesn't look so bleak. 

Anyway think I am rambling a bit there....... 

Hope you all have a lovely weekend

Z x


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Zuri   know exactly what you mean, I got annoyed when we went to visit a friends Brother and his wife who'd adopted and they told us that people who don't have children basically don't have a life    it's all well andgood for them to say that but I wasn't best pleased.  We have some friends in their early 60s who don't have children, they travel, fence for England, have a very well balanced life and enjoy themselves.  For some of us having children might not be an option and people are all too quick to judge.


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

morning girls.

xx


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Beach - I get really annoyed with these people who think children are everything, my brother-in-law once said to us you'll never experience real love if you don't have kids, insensitive git! he doesn't know our situation but its still insensitive to say as we may have chosen not to have them. I believe you can live a very fulfilled life without children its just a case of adapting, me and hubby have already discussed the things we'll do if we can't have kids and it sounds exciting (of course given the choice I would choose kids) but I wont fall apart for ever if I can't, it will be heart breaking and i will struggle for a while with the outcome but then we'll go and live our lives a different way - some people may argue having kids means you live less of a fulfilled life re travelling and adventure so there are two sides

Its not the be all and all but at the moment its what we want


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## Little Me (Aug 29, 2008)

Morning girls,

Zuri- I love your last post I have to say. It's full of positivity if things don't go our way. However, I'm sure things will eventually  
I hope you're resting up lady?  

Beachy- My personal opinion is it's your home, your weekend and if you're gonna be doing something that you won't enjoy then don't do it. They may be good friends but at the same time if you rearrange then they will understand if they are good friends. I might sound like a hardnosed   but I'm not honest    

Miranda- I'm just wondering why the Lister wanted to charge me too for my F/Up chat/consultation on Thursday (that was over the phone and last 10 mins) I might query that bill cos it's a bit of an insensitive   take really innit? Hope you and Bobs are fine  

Ali- So Sundays the day then! I think you are a very brave lady and I'm keeping everything crossed for you hun- you really deserve this  

Ally- Hello lovely. Are you OK?  

Becka- Thanks for my text yesterday, that was so sweet of you  

Pix- Hello hun. Bet your hair looks beautiful  

Nat- Your weekend sounds sufficiently recluse like   enjoy all your TV hun  

Lainey- How are you today?  

Kate- Your street sounds crazy,  . Thanks for all your support too hun  

 Nix, LJ, Tracey, Angel, Bobbi, Donkey, Purple, NikkiW, Elinor, Missy, Sam, Laura, Alegria, Fishy, Steph

Slept a bit better last night and have been up since about 8 just pottering around.

Love
Anne


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Morning all

Beachy - don't worry about what you said about friends coming over we ALL understood what you meant. And I am sorry but I do think it is rude to not turn up with a a bottle actually. Some people basically don't have manners though and I guess thats something we have to get used to as we go through life, not everyone behaves the way we would  

Re the children thing, one thing that annoys me is that our friends no longer call us and ask us over as they would prefer to have people with other children so that the children don't get bored. One friend actually asked if there would be other kids at Bens birthday BBQ a couple of years ago, I said no unfortunately not, anyway on the day suddenly all 3 boys and 'dad' had come down with a mysterious lurgy. Basically we were not providing entertainment for her little angels and therefore she completely blew us out, she USED to be one of my very best freinds, finding those a bit thin on the ground at the moment  

Missy - glad scan was 'neutral' although I am sure you would have loved some amazing news!! It is seriously early days though and as you say the scan on Monday will be more telling     I have felt almost nothing since I started clomid and stims, trying not to let it do my head in  , there is nothing I can do to effect the result unfortunately! Probably be on again before Monday but if not GOOD LUCK sweetheart x

Zuri - thanks for sharing that positive note on your child free freinds, the rest of society makes you feel that there is no future without children, that the whole world will be grey, the sun will never shine and you will certainly never smile again! I personally have found it very difficult to look forward and see a future since IF, I do however spend a lot of time looking back as in some ways it is my only point of context. I need to stop that.  I look at all my uni friends on ******** with their ever expanding families, constant parties, generally happy looking lives and wonder why this had to happen...... Time to start looking forward and the image of your 40+ friends laughing and looking sh!t hot is a good place to start!!

Ali - hope you are still feeling strong today, you can do this and as we said we will be right behind you    

Kate - ripping out kitchens? - you lovely neighbour!!   Will you help me round my new house in the village? 

Natasha - hope flop out weekend going to plan xxxx

Steph - glad you have got your energy back, you must be completely blooming now! I saw your gorgeous jackets you made for Lauras chips, they are lovely, are you making stuff for your own little one now?

Alegs - hi hon   sorry that you are feeling [email protected] about your friends too, I just find it easier to pretend that they are not really there!! 

Anne - havent stopped thinking about you and Jason   Hope you are having the best weekend you can under the circumstances   Is the follow up not included in price of the IVF? Sounds wrong to me DEFINATELY check that out on Monday  

Lainey - you okay hon - what exactly is the plan from here, stimming in UK with a view to moving to clinic abroad when you get your prize crop of follies? Something like that?   

Pix - what you up to? Showing off your hair   or shopping  

Bobbi - watch it or Pix really will think we are stalking her - Pix - we are only joking (but we do both fancy you!!!)   No seriously, where are you based?? 

Purps - kisses to you xxxx don't worry about the silly list  

Fishy - are you okay honey pie?

Nix - shopping completed? Fridge full? What's in store this weekend? 

Hi to Mir, Donks, Elinor, Laura, Nicki, Nikki, angel, Steph love you all to bits xxxx

I am off for a power walk once I have eaten (and digested) my porridge. Swam yesterday and going to swim again tomorrow, I can thoroughly recommend it, this has been my least stressful cycle (so far!!) I have the dreaded scan on Tuesday, that will tell us what is really going on, can't feel a thing so.................

Please all have gorgeous weekends, you all deserve it so so much xxxx


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Morning Anne how are you feeling today? I hope the dark cloud is slowly inching away, I am sure it will take time and its to be expected so take it easy both of you.

I'm taking it a bit too easy! done sod all since ET!! not sure how good that is really, suppose its better to get fresh air and remain a bit active, its been too much of a good excuse to sit on sofa and watch TV! 

My last post may sound positive but I think deep down it was written due to my pessimistic feelings!  I was really buzzing yesterday morning and thought this is it, its going to work by the afternoon all that had gone and started feeling negative, I think joining the 2WW thread did it!! seeing so many BFN's so I am staying away from there for now 

xx


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Zuri - I know what you mean about seeing BFP's, makes me feel that the odds are if they get one then I won't!! So silly and irrational but cannot be helped!


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Ally its funny because I think some of my friends feel a bit envious at times of our life, we are in Switzerland, we can pop skiing when we want, we can drive 3 hours and we are at the italian lakes, we go camping in the summer, we have a hot summer!! (thats the most enviable part for them I think hehe) and to be honest its great and they are all sat at home with their snotty and sickly babies - they often say things to me like its ok for you you haven't got kids, so lucky you can just go and do these things, it amazes me as I just then think people are never satisfied and happy! We do all these things and try and make the most of where we are living because so far we haven't got kids. 

I look at their ******** pages and see old friends with their kids and yes I feel a pang of jealousy and think look at them with their nice happy families and feel all bitter and jealous, but then I am sure they look at my ******** page and they get a pang of jealousy when they see pics of us in switzerland doing lots of interesting stuff, it really does work both ways. 

I suppose deep down though they wouldn't change having their kids for the world, whereas I would change our care free lifestyle at the drop of a hat



Hmmmm I seem to be coming over all philosophical today, what's happened to me!!


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Oops Ally i was supposed to say BFN's on the 2ww thread, it actually depressed me when i saw 3 BFN's announced yesterday as it just made me realise how bloody hard it is to get a positive with IVF, sorry i need to re read through my posts more often

But yes I agree also seeing BFP's then makes me think that statistics say 30 - 40% success rate and the more BFP's there are then the less chance i will get one

hehe can't win really


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

BFP/ BFN - the responses are often a surprise and irrational!! 

A xxxx


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## Little Me (Aug 29, 2008)

Zuri- I can kind of understand the 2ww thread being a negative but then, I guess if they can do it so can you hun  
Me, I am getting there I guess - slept ok and woke up to tea and toast. Jason is a real sweetie but he is gutted too so I want to look after him aswell.
PS- I will be over for a bit of skiing and Italian laking asap!! Sounds so beautiful over there  

Ally- WE are your very best friends hun  
    to all those non understanding "normals"


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Anne sounds like you have such a lovely husband - lucky you have each other and if all else fails you still have each other x

Yes shall we build our village over here in the italian lakes and then make all those smug ******** family people jealous at our fulfilled happy lives hehehe

who needs kids? certainly not us, look what we have instead...... hehehe


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## Little Me (Aug 29, 2008)




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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Oh Zuri it all does sound lovely... maybe I can come over and you can practice with my wee ones and I'll go skiing! Actually I cant ski I'd rather a roll in the grass round the lakes!

Anne - I always felt so guilty of BFN's as Tim has top SA so everything was on my shoulders.  It does hit the men hard as well and your right to remember that its easy to forget.  Go give him a big snog! He obviously loves you so much.  

And girls there is enough BFP's to go round, it takes time for us PR girls to get it right but we are a determined bunch and get there in the end.  

I've got my frined who I worked with years ago coming today, she is lovely, she is a lesbian and her and her partner love kids and they are bringing a couple of other mates too so I am having a house full of doting ladies here the chips are gonna have a lovely cuddly time.  Been on my on most of the week so feel they only get minimum of cuddles as I'm just so busy.  Amazing since tim got home yesterdat they have all been calmand settled.  Think just that little extra bit of care wth them makes all the difference.

Update on the MIL situation, Tim is fuming as she keeps leaving nsty mesages on his phone and he is rufusing to call her.    Also my nan died last night.  So all in all a bit of a rollercoaster week.

Anyway the chips are all asleep so I am going to attemt to brush my teeth and put on some clothes before my friends arrive, don't think I've washed for 2 days... ops!


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Laura so sorry that your nan has died   and glad your hubby is also seeing his mother as the nutter she is! 

Rolling around in the grass by the lake in summer is actually a lot less stressful than skiing so i'll join you 

x

P.S can you girls tell I am bored...? hubby still in bed and its 11.30am!! we live in a tiny apartment so i have to entertain myself quietly until he gets up, bloody husbands who'd ave em


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## Little Me (Aug 29, 2008)

Oh Laura- I am so sorry about nan, bless her  
I've never had a nan but I know in some cases you can be closer/as close as your are to your parents. Hugs to you and your family hun  
But, here's a     for your MIL and thank god Tim is seeing things as they really are.
You just don't need this sh!t  

I've never tried skiing but I KNOW how bad I'd be from my ice skating days  
Just had an image of us all and the Chiplets rolling round on the grass


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Laura - so sorry about your nan   hope you have a lovely day with the ladies  

Zuri - mine is still in bed too   why can men sleep so well, I am such a light sleeper these days, drives me up the wall!! 

Anne - good to know that I have best friends after all  

Off out for my bit of exercise now!! 

A xxxx


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Anne I can't ice skate at all, skiing is a lot easier but its still hard!


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

I am  back from from my trip to Barcelona, had a consultation which lasted almost an hour! So informative and encouraging. They want to put me on Oestrogen Priming Protocol and also want to make sure that male factor is not an issue. In him opinion male factor is often overlooked and sometime does not get picked up by a normal SA. If it is MF they want to use TESA to get to the sperm before it gets damaged. My DP's response when I told him was 'he can f' right off!!!!    

He told me that they are very pleased with the results from Oestrogen Priming, the first woman he treated with that protocol was 42 with high FSH and he had advised her to go for DE, however she insisted on using her own eggs. Her daughter is now 5 months old!

Definitely want to use IMSI which uses  a very powerful microscope to find the most suitable sperm, to my knowledge not available in the UK  yet. I was really impressed how much time he took and that he did not ignore my DP's role. He does not believe in immune therapy but does not mind that I get treated for that in London. He told me to continue with DHEA and also for DP to take vitamins. I am aiming to cycle in April, seeing Dr Gorgy (he deals with the immune issues) on Wednesday. 

Laura - sorry to hear about your nan  

Anne - how are you feeling today?   I was thinking about you and Jason a lot when I was in Barcelona, even during my consultation, kept thinking maybe IMSI and Oestrogen Priming is the way to go for you too?

Hope you all have a good weekend, sorry about lack of personals, need to catch up, you girls know how to chat...


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## Little Me (Aug 29, 2008)

Nikki2008- Lovely to heave you back and I'm so glad all went well in Barca. Sounds very promising.
According to Lister Jasons swimmers were ok just a wee bit low in count - I firmly believe it's my ff'd up eggs that are the problem.
Have ordered DHEA so will start on that as soon as it arrives
I hope this goes well for you Nik


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## Donkey (Nov 24, 2007)

Morning girls

I’ve missed so much since yesterday afternoon / evening, I’m not sure I can catch up properly!  You’ve had some very philosophical chats which I have say I agree with.  We meet so many people and call them ‘friends’ but they aren’t really.  It’s at times like these that you find out who really cares.  Perhaps we’ll allow the odd one a day pass into our village?  They have to be very special though.  

I’ve reached a milestone   today – I have never got this far in the 2ww without AF arriving.  I’ve not had any cramps really for the last 3 days and my boobs have been gradually getting less sore.  However they ARE still sore and the trigger I think has finally left me yesterday (I had 15000iu).  Had a dodgy tummy yesterday…I just don’t know what to think.  

Anne glad to see you seem a little chirpier.  I know that inside you are hurting but you are trying to be positive and move forward.     Have you had a wash yet?  

Laura – so sorry to heat about your nan.    It’s lovely that she had some good time off the drugs before she passed away.

Ali – you are dealing so well with such a stressful situation.  I hope Sunday goes well.   

Lainey – how are you doing?  

Angel – is that right, you’re testing tomorrow?  Eeeeek!     

Elinor and Zuri     

Welcome Dimsum  

Ally I’m very impressed with your exercise regime   

Beachy – have a lovely weekend away   

Nikki - that sounds sooo positive  

Kate – You are very sociable – I’m only on nodding terms with my neighbours.  To be fair they’re not really our age.  I’d like you as a neighbour.   

Hello to Sam, Juicy, Purps, Mir, Lucy, Alegira, Nix, Pixie, Bobbi, LJ – sorry if I’ve forgotten anyone.

Love Donkey xxx


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## Little Me (Aug 29, 2008)

Hi Donks- Well done you, I am   this is your time  
I have done my teeth and face but not showered as yet  
Is it Tuesday for your test? x


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## alegria (Dec 10, 2007)

Morning girls  

Nikki - Your consultation with IMSI does sound very interesting. I've been reading lots of positive things about the Oestrogen Priming Protocol for PRs (Sam has kindly posted some very useful info in here about it too). How exciting, let's us know how it goes    

Laura - I'm sorry about your nan too    And I hope MIL give you guys a break FFS  

Zuri & Donkey - Hang on in there PUPO ladies    

Ally - You are a woman on a mission with your new exercising plan! I'm impressed too  

Beachy - You were not being OTT hun. We do understand. And I agree with the others that is plain rude to be invited for dinner at someone's house and not to bring a bottle, flowers or chocs as a sign of appreciation.  

Anne - Can't believe they are charging you for a quick follow-up phone call    A full follow up consultation IS included in their IVF/ICSI price anyway! We know that in the end of the day they are a business but pleeeeeeasseee have some empathy too  

A big    to everyone else.

I better go now, want to tidy the house, get some groceries and then have a manicure and hair done (plus lady garden of course   ); dh is finally coming back tonight  

Alegria x


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## purple72 (Jul 25, 2008)

Oh Laura,

Sorry to hear about your nan    and as ally says enjoy your visit from your friends today!

Anne, you and J are so sweet, keep taking care of each other and before you know it the pain will not seem so raw!

Nikki your clinic sounds fab! Good luck with it all

Zuri sounds like you have a wonderful life and that L/O your carrying will be a lucky little one to have such a wonderful life

Ally, I'm about to eat my porridge and go power walking!!! Although my hubby has just gone to bed (night shifts bless him)

Beach not OTT at all they seem to be taking the **** not bringing anything, Bowling would be my choice!

Donkey Congrats on the milestone hunny!! may the BFP follow it shortly!!!

Alegria, DH is in for a happy night by the sounds of all the primping and preening   enjoy!

On the friends front, I seem to be able to cope really well with babies, but not pregnant friends! that I find too hard. I worry about my DH though, his work is all babies, and often social issues such as abuse, babies for adoption, unwanted and babies screwed up by parents drugtaking etc etc, his heart must break so often. 
He so very much deserves to have his own and be a daddy  

Anyway thats getting too soppy so off to have porridge and walk off this heartache

Hello to all not mentioned by name, doesn't mean I'm not thinking of ya!

Love ya all

Sx


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## Juicy (Jan 23, 2008)

hi everyone
Nikki, that's brilliant that you had a good consult, he sounds great and the protocol is fascinating.  Really hope this will be a great cycle for you  

Donkey, no AF news is good news !
Anne deffo tell the Lister to shove that invoice - the bean counters there drove me mad

Alegria eek got to get my backside in gear too - have a lovely reunion tonight!
Purps - enjoy your walk, it's going to snow next week  
wishing everyone a lovely day


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## Little Me (Aug 29, 2008)

Hi Purps- Well done on the exercise ( and Ally  ) 

Alegs-   good luck on the "pruning" of the bits  . 

Juicy- Too right, I as just so grateful on Thursday that i could even speak to someone but they can go and spin to be honest.
They even tried to charge me for 2009 increased prices when I became a patient in 2008  
Buggars eh


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Purps, its not that fulfilled and great really, i was just trying to illustrate peoples perceptions, I may post pics of somewher we have been while we are here but it doesn;t mean to say we do exciting things all the time, its just that the people who are at home with babies think that I am here living the dream and doing all this stuff and may feel envious of me, as I feel envious of them....hope that makes sense.. 

Hope I haven't come across as bragging as i wasn't meant to - because there are lots of downsides about living here too!! 

x


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## Maisie74 (Sep 4, 2008)

Laura - i'm so sorry to hear about your nan    keep in your heart that she got to meet your beautiful babies  

Donkey - thats great that you have got further on in this cycle - its all looking good for you, really really hope this is going to be your time

Nikki08 - hello missus, great to hear that you had such a positive consult, i have always like the look of IB for if we were going to go for DE - it makes such a difference when you feel like everyone is on your side - your DHs response to the TESA threat cracked me up   - 

Zuri - i think i'm with you in thinking actually life could be ok without children - i was having similar thoughts this week - i figured that once everyone elses kids get to about 12 then i can cope and wont feel any jealousy anymore - think i might have to get a slightly bigger v+ box to keep me occupied the next 12 years  though   It has been DHs and mine plan to move over to switzerland for a while now - not yet and depends a lot on what happens with us family wise, but it is definitely a strong contender in our 5-10 year plan. 

Anne -    for you hunny, of course Jase is disappointed too but please let him worry about you and take care of you too  

Well i've had a nice lie in, bit of porridge - clearly the cereal of choice on here - epilated my legs and armpits and now going to go to the gym. quite fancy doing some baking this afternoon, such a shame i'll have scoff it all myself  

Hope you all have a lovely day xxx


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## Maisie74 (Sep 4, 2008)

hmm bobbi - god why cant people just understand that maybe there is a reason why someone doesnt have children other than it not being their choice and just think a little bit before they open their big traps! how about diversion tactics?! just dont answer the question and totally change the subject to something really bizarre and then just talk a load of tripe quickly and coninually flowing from one stange subject to the next and they'll get confused and forget - they'll probably think you are a bit mad but heyho


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

Anne - the doctor I saw said that normal SA often does not show MF, for that you need a DNA fragmentation test and a FISH test, not routinely done in most clinics. He sees more and more couples were the woman was told 'it's the egg quality' and when they do these tests it turns out that MF is an issue too. 

He said sometimes there is actually nothing wrong with the eggs and but doctors just assumed that it was and it is actually MF. With that patient group when they use TESA pregnancy rates are very high. 

Often the women has been trying for years thinking it was her and by the time they get to the Instituto Marques her egg quality really is an issue but only because of the time spent ttc when it was ML all along! 

Even with no MF, IMSI makes sense, just to make sure that the best possible sperm is selected and ICSI does not guarantee that. The fewer the number of eggs available the more important sperm selection is.

Hi Natasha  

Bobbi- sorry about the hags   not a problem I am facing, most of my friends don't have kids and my DP's family knows. Sorry I am of no help I know


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Ooh Natasha that an exciting plan to move over here, for what reasons? do you have any links/ties here?


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## Maisie74 (Sep 4, 2008)

zuri - no we dont have any ties over there, would be more for lifestyle reasons, the idea is probably geneva but i dont think anything will happend for a couple of years yet.


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## purple72 (Jul 25, 2008)

Oh Zuri hunny didn't think you were bragging sweetie, just seeing silver linings to the clouds! And a hot summer seems like heaven  

Hi Juicy   hoping the snow will be nice and not clog the M25 M2 as out alot next week? Plus all DH's bulbs are pushing through in the garden and bless him he's very worried about them ( Zuri see how exciting my life is    )

Hi Bobbi my ploy is usually to laugh and say that's a bit personal isn't it? I didn't know we were such intimate friends.... then change the subject! Usually works wonders

Hey natasha, well at least you've had porridge, think that deserves a bit of home made cakes, I'll come and share with you if you like  

Enjoy Sat ladies, I'm going into town to have nails done before hubby wakes up, he wants to go see that film with Daniel craig tonight   guess I have to go as he came to Slumdog with me

Hugs

Sx


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

Oh I like Purple's idea re hags at party tonight!


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

I can highly recommend Zurich Natasha, its the most happening city in Switzerland and very beautiful


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## purple72 (Jul 25, 2008)

Thanks Nikki tends to work a treat

Sx


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Love it Bobbi - I am going to throw rotten tomatoes!! 

I am back from my power walk, not so much 'power' by the end, I was out for 1 hour 40 mins!! I cannot move but have just had a bacon sarnie so feel better now   By the way don't be impressed my my exercise, it is done because I am vain and glutenous!! 

Nikki - glad your trip went well, Sam and I would be really really appreciative if you could get hold of the actual estrogen priming protocol that they use in Barcelona, Sam is building a file of this info so that we can try and push the Lister to try these on us. The Lister don't really understand what an estrogen priming protocol is and just put us on the pill for a month before tx but we know it is more complex than that.

Natasha - happy baking  

A xxxx


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

Hello my lovely chatty PR girls,   

Hope everyone is having a great weekend.

Laura: I’m sorry to hear your nan has died. I’m sure she passed away happy having just met your gorgeous babies. Bless her - hope you are OK.  

Anne: Happy to hear you slept better last night sweetheart. I agree with you on the Lister front. I know they run a business but come on - there is no reason to be so insensitive and send the bill a day after a failed cycle and charging you for 10 mins phone conversation is beyond me.   
I call my consultant on his mobile whenever I feel like asking a question and not once did he say don’t call me or you need to pay etc… I’m sorry if I offend anyone when I say this but most clinics in the UK just see their patients as ££££ and this was one of the reasons why I didn’t choose the Lister after having my consultation with them. 

By the way wee people tend to be very good at skiing I’m sure you’d do brilliantly. 

Nikki: I didn’t know the clinics in Barcelona offered Oestrogen priming protocol – that’s great news. It all sounds very positive hun. I will discuss this protocol with my clinic in Turkey cos I really want to give that a try on my next round.

Ali: I think you are amazing and really hope this cycle works for you. “Timed sex” sounds great and you never know DP might realise what he is missing after all.  

Zuri: You are meant to rest for 3 days after ET so enjoy it while you can hun. Loving your psychological posts – keep them coming.

Beach: Just skim read so not sure what the problem was with your friend but I’m on your side anyway hun.  

Ally – Bobbi: You made me laugh out loud! Love you both so much     … but Bobs Ally is my first love honey so yeah really - stop stalking me.   

Ally: It’s so nice to see you are doing so well on this cycle – keep up the good work sweetheart. I really hope you’ll have some fabulous news on Tuesday. I envy your exercise regime. I’m a real lazy @rse when it comes to exercising.   

Bobbi: Stupid party with stupid people!! I tend to ignore people when they ask me about babies etc…I literally turn away and start talking to someone else and have a laugh which gives the impression of me being slightly lunatic but it’s fine by me, I don’t give a   about what they think.     - I'm a foreigner after all and I can get away with this kind of things   

Kate: 2 walnut whips   – you naughty girl. 

Missy: Sorry you weren’t told exactly what was happening during your scan but it seems promising that both ovaries have follies in them. I hope they will start growing in no time. Your friend sounds lovely, can I meet her too?  

Tracey: How was your evening with the girls? Hope you had fun.

Natasha: Are you making everyone laugh again?  

Hello to Miranda, LJ, Nix, Purple, Alegria, Fish, Sam, Juicy, Donkey, Elinor, Angel, Lainey and everyone I’ve missed.

I haven’t been feeling great since yesterday and not sure why.   I nearly collapsed last night, felt very weak all of a sudden -scared the s.hit out of DH! He said I looked very pale. I got better later in the evening but feeling rather listless today (so no shopping for me! ). I reckon all that stress and heartache I’ve recently been through is taking its toll. 

Love to you all.

Pixie xxxxxx


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

I got the article on OP by Fisch and Sher if anybody is interested, but in pdf so need an email address, have not read it yet so don't know if it explains protocol itself or just results. Almost 2pm and I am still in PJs   need to get a move on


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## Pixie75 (Sep 27, 2008)

thanks Bobs - I'm on shed loads of vits/supps so hope I'm not lacking anything but never know you might be right. 

Nikki: Just Pm'd you my email address - thanks for telling us about it.

xxxxxx


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

Pixie - I have sent you the article

Ally - just read the article very quickly and it does outline the protocol, need to read it again when I got more time but it does sound very promising the women treated in this study had all been recommended to go for DE.

_'That there was no difference in pregnancy rate with increasing age may indicate a maximised potential in these patients. More importantly if each egg has its own potential to develop normally prior IVF failure even in the face of an elevated FSH level or low follicle numbers should not be used to deny future treatments. Rather is is a sign that more careful consideration of the stimulation protocol is warranted'_


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Nikki - I sent you my email address so it would be great if  you could send it to me too   Thank you x

Pix - sorry you are feeling under the weather, hopefully not for too long though hon  

Off to see Frost/ Nixon today - not feeling that excited - more of a film for Ben I think (so with you on that subject Purps!)

A xxxx


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

Ally - I have sent you the article - happy reading! BTW for the first time understood the pill protocol which always seemed odd to me. Dr Olivares at IM explained that the egg that is most likely to ovulate get actually selected in the month prior to current cycle. The pill makes sure that this pre-selection does not happen and therefore follicle assynchronicity less likely. I tell you after an hour with him I realised how little I actually know even after four cycles and four years of TTC. 

Well I finally got dressed but just can't motivate myself to do any work, got so much to do though


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Pixie take it easy, it probably is the stress taking it toll on you now, what i think you need is a nice holiday by the beach  its what I need to!  glad you liked my psycho babble this morning   woke up in a strange philosophical mood today

Ally congrats on the fitness regime! you'd think trying to get pregnant would get me into gear but I have done nothing for months, been so bad!

And now Bobbi going on a fitness drive! well done for your run around the block, but is it a small block?? 4 mins? or are you a fast runner? 

Like the idea of the stocks at the village!

Just been shopping and spent a small fortune! so bleedin expensive over here, half a trolly has just cost us about £200!! eek!! think we need to go veggie!

X


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## popsi (Oct 11, 2007)

laura .. sorry to hear about your grandmother, she is at peace now and watching over you and the little ones i am postive xx  

love to everyone else xx sorry personals are just hopeless at moment head up


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## Maisie74 (Sep 4, 2008)

pix hun are you taking high dose of zinc by any chance - this can cause anaemia which as bobbi said is low iron levels. of course if you cant actually go shopping there is always online though  

bobbi - love your fitness attempt   maybe you can wear your trainers to the party and anytime one of hags is haggy you can just drop down to the floor and do a racing sprint away from them and go for a jog around the room...you could say you're in training for the marathon

think i tired myself out in the gym, cant be bothered to do anything now - OMG pix  i just thought you dont think there is an antishopping virus going round do you now lying on the sofa watching The Hills - best mate coming round in a bit to pick some stuff up, i havent told her that DH is away for the weekend as shes great but a bit smothering and she'll expect to spend the weekend with me which i just cant cope with. going to have to come up with a plan to get rid of her quickly!


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## TryMeditate (Sep 19, 2008)

Me too girls – I’ve cut myself off from friends. Poor DH, I know he hates it.  I’m happy to start contributing funds for the village! 


Ali – I am so so so sorry for you.  All my love and hugs to you.     You do have a golden follie and with our amh honey I think that’s worth going for – remember Jaya got a lady pregnant with 1 follicle at the Lister, there are so many stories of the one egg wonders!  You go!!!  It maybe too early to start thinking about this, but if do you have another cycle will you try with Donor Sperm if DP\exDP can’t be involved?  My best friend in Canada is going too, and Elinor on this thread is too.  It’s an option for you to think about so you don’t have to feel all is lost.  I know my Canadian girlfriend with be so full of love for that child, she’s going to be a great mum,  and any baby will be lucky to have her as a mum.  I know it will all be better than fine for her.  She’s going to the US for some ivy league sperm – why the bl*&(*&dy hell not I say – so much better than her last 3 looser partners!

Angel - Thanks for all the info on FET and why it can be better than a fresh cycle – it does make sense!

Anne – I hope your feeling a bit better.  It was 1 out of the 3 eggs that wasn’t good quality is that right? Which means that 2 were.  You WILL be ok, you had 2 good quality eggs on this cycle, don’t beat yourself up...your next cycle is going to be so so much better. You WILL get there    

Little Pix – get yourself to a doctor hon, I don’t like the thought of your fainting. xxx

Missy – I so understand, it’s brave of you to cry in front of your friend.  I just avoid all mine.  I’m glad your scan was 'good' news – they didn’t give you bad news so it’s good news ok! It's right that it's too early to start, but follies on both sides is great!

Laura – Sorry about your nan. It is so hard to loose your nan.     Give those babies a big kiss and know that she is watching over them (I really believe that ) I love my nan so much (she raised me for part of my life so means so much to me), and I hate that she’s so old and sick. 

Jo  - My DH is the same, I know he thinks I waste so much time on FF....he doesn’t understand that I NEED your girls to say sane.  Does he WANT me to talk to him constantly about my missing AF?

Ally – your friends kids is a horror and he’s not getting any better because the mother is too lazy to stop him. NEVER see that kid again. None of my friends children behave like that, he is just awful.  I have one friend - who lives overseas, her son is awful too – not quiet that bad though.  He’s now in school and having all kinds of problems as he won’t behave long enough to learn anything. He's going to have to repeat year 1 - not because he's stupid, because he's naughty so he won't learn!  I actually feel sorry for the kid, as he is going to have such a hard life because his parents won’t teach him to behave.  Can you come over and kick my butt and make me walk too? Your welcome to drag me by the hair - I need to be pushed! 

Nikki2008 – I’m hearing great things about estrogen priming for PRs too! I didn’t know they were doing it in Spain also though.Wow your Barcelona story sounds so positive... Yes please can you send us your protocol when you have it so we can all have a look.  Good luck!!!  What is TESA?  Can you send me the article too?

Elinor – Great to hear from you! And congratulations on being PUPO!! Everytime I hear about your mum I think she sounds like such a treasure – want to rent her I could use some mum love this week?

Natasha – your hermit weekend sounds luuurrrrvvveely  - enjoy!

Girls I’ve had a bit of a fright and am in need of some help...

To cut a long story short, I’d asked a POF doc to send me the full report of some tests I’d had done last year. The secretary thought she sent them to me, but what she sent me was the results of my immune testing done at another clinic – the argc – which is not due back for a week! So clearly both use the same lab in Chicago, and the lab sent her my immunes rather than my other results....so now I;ve got my immune results – which show quite a few “highs” but no doctor to interpret them for me...I’m so scared.  I really wish I didn’t see these without someone who knows something to look at them for me.  

With my amh, awol cycle, DH’s sperm issues...I really don’t know if I can mentally deal with immune issues too...though I know my POF and immune issues are likely all linked. I really really hoped that I wouldn't have this to contend with too.

Can anyone of you ladies who knows something about immunes take a look at the results if I post them, and tell me if they think compared to theirs these are not too bad?  Or are they something that may require treatment.  Any info will be great at this stage!  I can't even tell if the NK ones are normal, or not normal from the results. 

I told DH how stressed, upset and worried I am.... I have an amh of 0.1 – so if I get any response I’m unlikely to get more than 2 eggs anyway, I knew this so am doing my best to make sure those eggs into the best possible quality, that i can influence - but can I really take immune issues too? I’m feeling like I should just give up, I've too many problems.

Does raised immunes mean I also may have an autoimmune or something else wrong with me too?  DH is usually a great husband, but he is having a really hard time a work at the moment. He told me that on top of his work stress, he doesn’t feel like he can take my stress too. We’ve barely spoken a word since.  I’m feeling so down.... I feel like I have enough fertility issues without this too. 

Sam xxx


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Hi

I've just watched an IVF programme on sky, it was based in the states and its left me soooooooo annoyed, showed 3 women's cycles, one woman they got 29 eggs and the other 2 they said they got a very worrying disappointing 9 eggs!! WTF!!! one woman had 6 embies, not all great quality but them all put back! the other woman had 3 put back (she got pregnant with triplets) the other two didn't get pregnant


Am I wrong in thinking this just sounds plain weird?? to be disappointed with 9 eggs? and to put 6 embryos back!!

sorry just had to share, it really shocked me

x


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

Sam - I have sent you the article. TESA stands for testicular sperm aspiration , in which the testicular tissue is sucked out through a fine needle, under local anaesthesia, my DP was dead certain that this is a very bad idea and held not back in telling me so repeatedly in language that is not suitable for polite company


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## TryMeditate (Sep 19, 2008)

Thanks Nikki - I look forward to reading it!

Sorry for asking advice from those of you who know something about immunes, I hope you don't think I'm being insensitive sayiing I couldn't cope.  To explain... for me, it's a problem as the argc will do the immune testing on me, but have rejected me as a patient unless I do donor eggs  So even if I did get treated for immunes, the purpose of immune tx is to go for ivf, but they won't do ivf on me anyway so what's the point.


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## Donkey (Nov 24, 2007)

Sam I'm afraid I know nothing about immunes but wanted to send you a big hug  

Natasha - what did you bake?  i dud gooey meringues  

Donkey xx


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## Maisie74 (Sep 4, 2008)

Sam hun if i were you i'd call Nikki at ARGC first thing monday am and tell her that the lab have mistakenly given you your results and you want to go in to talk about it with her - she will then go through it all with you then. In the meantime you can PM me or tell me on here if you like which of your levels are raised and I'll see if I can shed any light for you. There is a relationship between immunes and POF as you say - also have you ever had glandular fever, any type of PID, any cervical dysplasia, HPV, cold sore?


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

Sam - You could see Dr Gorgy (ex-ARCG) for immune tests and treament and do the cycle at IM or any other clinic of your choice that will treat you, including Dr Gorgy himself. An initial consulatation is £120.


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## Little Me (Aug 29, 2008)

evening ladies,

Sam- Sadly they said out of my 3 eggs only 2 were suitable for ICSI and the other one was not good- they then said when they called me about fert (or non fert) that the egg that had the incomplete fert looked very dark grey  and not good quality at all. SO, wil get on the DHEA, maybe grow a moustache but at least my eggs/egg may be better next time.  
Hope you are having a nice weekend  

Nat- Sounds like you're having a nice rest  

Pix- Oh no, how are you feeling now? I think you're right and that it's all this catching up with you  

Everyone else ok?


We've just watched Series 1 of Entourage which was actually quite good- a bit blokey but watchable


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## TryMeditate (Sep 19, 2008)

Thanks girls

Anne - i've been on DHEA since October and no moustache...not that I'd care, Boots sell wax strips   Anyway maybe I'd look rather dapper with a little moustachio   . You start popping that DHEA - being on this thread I'm surprised you've resisted so long!  I also take progreens suppliment every morning which has wheatgrass and spirilina and lots of other goodies in it, and doesn't taste like a cup of bitter mixed lawn.  I'm also on dha, vits, EPA, magnesium, vitamin B(for low progesterone) and l'arginine.  

Natasha - thanks - I'd love you to look at my results   

Nikki - thanks for that. I think I'll look up Dr Gorgy, does he do only immunes or does he do IVF also?

Donkey - Mmmmm meringues yummy!

Zuri - I've recorded a bunch of those "baby lab" programs on sky, haven't had the courage to watch any yet.  Are they still allowed to transfer more than 2 eggs in the US?  I think that's fabulous!!! If I thought I was potentially going to get 3 eggs I'd be straight to the US for treatment!!! I wonder if it would work out cheaper than private IVF in London anyway?

Sam xxx


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## Züri (Feb 7, 2008)

Sam I was more shocked at their view that 9 eggs was disappointing and that 29 was normal and good - and also very shocked at them putting 6 back, but the programme looked a bit dated so it may well be old and before any laws were passed

My friend over here had 3 embryos put back but the 3rd one was only a 2 cell and they placed it in a place that would mean it would unlikely fertilise, I wasn't given the option if i wanted my 3rd one put back, it was just discarded...


x


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## elinor (Jul 4, 2008)

Evening all!

thanks for the welcome back, and I hope everyone else enjoyed a nice sunny day today like here in Edinburgh. Getting cold now though...

Laura - so sorry to hear about your nan . She will be looking down on you and the chiplets, I am sure.

Anne -  can't believe the Lister are so insensitive about billing! And surely a follow-up in included?  I have to say, although GCRM insisted on payment before the cycle began there was never any problem about seeing someone, extra info and my follow up lasted over an hour (like Nikki I felt I had finally learnt something, after 5 years ttc!) sending   I had no side effects on the DHEA, by the way - no spots, no beard and only a bit of insomnia (possibly more due to treatment/ stress/ work anyway) which stopped when I took it all by lunchtime. Hope it works for you!

Sam - hope you can get reassurance on Monday. You should get a decent response from them - they should have checked what results they were sending you. I have no knowledge or experience about immune issues, so I am sorry not to be more help. Just sending   and hoping all will be well. Sorry I can't send my mum - and I don't think my little sis would let her hire herself out!

Donkey - congratulations on getting this far along your 2ww!! Hoping this is your turn.  And hope you enjoy the meringues...

Angel - best of luck for testing tomorrow, and I hope the party etc today all went ok. 

Bobbi - you are probably already busy getting ready to go out, and I have no words of wisdom about what to say to hags who ask inappropriate questions. I think playing the 'rationally challenged' card mght work. I have similar issues, but because I am single I also get 'you shouldn't be so picky you know' 'what are you doing to find mr right?' and all of that.... 

Ali - glad you have a plan with DP for tomorrow. I know you've said the chances aren't great, but at least you know for sure your endometrium is looking great, you have the fab follie and you're timing things right. It really could be the one you know. Fingers crossed! (was going to say 'I will be thinking of you', but would have to then say 'but not in graphic detail, only in a vague and positive way', jus in case you thought I was a bit odd!)

Ally - totally with you on the horror children thing. difficult to remember it is not their fault, and they will have a hard time at school and later life if they are not socialised to be at least a bit understanding of others (not stabbing/kicking/biting for a start!!). Don't let it get you down - when you get the chance I am sure you will manage it so much better. Hoping that will be soon.

Nikki - your consultation at IM in Barcelona sounds really good. And really positive - and I always find it helpful to know stuff about the protocols etc, which I have often found consultants don't really tell you till after a cycle hasn't worked when you are demanding answers and it's not given in a positive way, at least that has been my experience at ERI in Edinburgh. MFS in Manchester were better, and GCRM in Glasgow are great (but I haven't asked about ovulation priming protocols there yet).

Zuri - I didn't see the programme, but I am with you on people moaning about 9 eggs!! WTF? and replacing 6 embryos?! 

Missy - hello (not sure if I have said hi to you before) and I have also found that some friends are great about IF, others not. But if you don't try, you never find out... 

Kate - so impressed with your polite posting whilst p*ssed! Hope you didn't suffer today (but it is one of the good things about treatment - you end up with an alchol tolerance of zero, so get merry much more quickly!).

Pixie - I hope it is just stress and treatment catching up with you, but get it checked out if you do't feel better after the weekend petal! We need you on top form!

Bring a bottle dilemmas - I absolutely agree that it is not ok for people to just take advantage!! I have a couple of friends who in reent years have admitted to alcohol problems, so they have good reason not to bring booze - but they end up over compensatingand so do I - I always stock up on oj and coke and other stuff, so they don't feel left out, then usually they bring fancy fizzy non-alcohol things, and smoothies of some exotic variety and I end up with such a healthy fridge for the following week. If friends were 'popping by' rather than planning to visit, I would not expect anything - but if it was planned then some kind of acknowledgement (I am a known fan of chocs and flowers myself!) is only polite - even if the acknowledgement is that they ended up having some kind of crisis/missing the bus and didn't get a bottle. I used to have a great corner shop, run by a muslim family who stocked alcohol but became a bit more hardline about it, so stopped making any profit on it (they had a good stock of quality wine). The booze was a total bargain, and really good selection too. It is still a great corner shop, but they have now stopped booze altogether, so a few times friends have come round and planned to pop in there on the way to mine, and ended up frantically searching for the nearest off licence instead. To my mind, that's a reason for not bringing a bottle. Without an excuse or acknowledgement, it is just taking advantage. Sorry, lecture over - I must learn how to do short posts!!

Miranda, Steph, Popsi, Beachy, Natasha, LJ, Becca and absolutely everyone else - Hi and hope you are all well.
love and best wishes to everyone!
Elinor xx


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## dakota (Feb 6, 2007)

Flipen eck girls   20 pages in 2 days, thats got to be a record  

Will be locking thread shortly once ive caught up with you all

xx


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## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

Evening ladies 

Have been out all day and just trying to read through thread now, have noticed dakota is starting new thread already   so will try and do some personals later, as friends who have no kitchen are coming for tea.  DH promised to cook, so u can guess who's done it all


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## dakota (Feb 6, 2007)

New home this way....http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=173948.0


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