# Redundancy - is my fertility treatment being used as a reason for dismissal?



## April33 (Mar 3, 2011)

Hi ladies,

I'd really appreciate your help and support right now. Please bear with me, it's a long story!

On Friday I got called into a meeting with five of my work colleagues. My five work colleagues all belong to the Operations Department. I am the only member of the Quality Control Department. My boss said that the company need to make two people redundant from those within the room - one redundancy would come from the Operations Department, one would come from the Quality Control Department. Since I am the only member of the Quality Control Department I asked whether that meant I was being redundant and I was told yes it did. So I can wave goodbye to saving any money for the moment for our third ICSI cycle!  

Anyway, I then got told I have to go through the consultation process so that the company is seen to be abiding by the law, even though in this meeting (and in several one-to-one conversations during the day) my boss told me I would definetely be leaving the company.

Now, I work in the medical device field and a Quality Control role is needed. But I have been told that my role will be split between three managers - I know this is a lie, the three managers do not know how to do all of my tasks and they simply do not have the time. There is a lady who does know the basics of my role and she has made no secret of the fact that she wants my job. The thing is this lady is in a relationship with her boss - who is best buddies with my boss! The two families socialise outside of work. 

I have also found out from the HR Manager that when I had my ICSI cycle at the start of the year my boss went behind my back and started looking into outsourcing my work and distributing my work between my other colleagues, just in case I went on maternity leave. It has now been decided that because it was shown that they could cope if I was on maternity leave my role is no longer viable. However, several ladies who have fallen pregnant have gone on maternity leave for several months (most recently the lady who is after stealing my job) and their work hasn't been outsourced, no extra staff has been taken on to cover their work, and their work has been undertaken by other staff members until they returned. Given that this lady who wants my job has also been put on redundancy notice (although my boss ripped my job to shreds, whilst whole heartedly supporting hers - effectively telling me she is safe, even though we haven't started the consultation process) why isn't the fact that the company didn't notice her absence for 9 months while she was on maternity leave been considered in this round of redundancies when they're making such a big deal out of it in my case?

I think I am been discriminated against because my company is in financial difficulties and they know that I am actively trying to get pregnant. I think they are scared that if I did fall pregnant they would end up paying for my maternity leave. For the other ladies, when the company knew they'd be going on maternity leave it was too late because they were already pregnant and it's very difficult to dismiss a pregnant lady!

What does everyone think? I have gained some legal advice today - I have been told to consider an unfair dismissal case based on unfair selection. I have also been told that I may have a case for sex discrimination. It's just so difficult to prove anything though.

I've spent a fortune this weekend on a dictaphone to record my consultation meeting on Monday! My boss is the smiling assassin - all smiley to your face but he doesn't hesitate to stab you in the back! He also is very good at denying things that he's said when he realises that he's made a mistake - he tried to deny that he'd said that I was definetely going when he realised he could be in trouble, even though on one occasion I had five witnesses (well, technically four if you discount the   from hell)!!!!!

There is so much else going on at the moment surrounding this issue but I think I better leave it here for now!  

Wish me luck on Monday!


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## kiteflyer (May 13, 2011)

April it sounds like you have a case for unfair dismissal to me and its good you have taken legal advice. Also try and get any evidence while you still work there, emails etc and get hard copies of them. A friend of mine did that last year when he got made redundant and was successful, and got another job with better hours too!

I think there is or was a work problem section on here but you have to ask a volunteer or moderator to gain access, I could be wrong though but worth asking about.

Good luck and try to stay strong


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

April, sorry this is brief but my understanding is that, unless it is a case of the company downsizing, in order to make a person redundant it is the ROLE that is made redundant and not the person. i.e. if your department and job role still exists then they can't just make you redundant and directly give the work to someone else to do. Although they might be able to fudge that by putting the whole workforce up for consultation or to apply for the jobs available.

I would definitely seek legal advice or advice from the CAB. Also check out the Direct.gov website for help: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/employment/redundancyandleavingyourjob/index.htm

Also try looking on the Moneysavingexpert forums for advice, and here: http://www.maderedundant.biz/page3.html



C~x


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

Are you a member of a union? Is do consult them asap.
I never told anyone at work about my cycles so this could never be held against me


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## April33 (Mar 3, 2011)

Hi ladies,

Thanks for your support and advice (I need all I can get at the moment), it's really appreciated.  

JJ1 - Unfortunately, I'm not a member of a trade union, I really wish I was right now!

I had my consultation meeting today. I wanted to record the meeting but I was told by my boss that he'd sought legal advice and it wasn't allowed. I spoke with ACAS afterwards and was told it is allowed as long as all parties agreed. Bascially, my boss has been told not to allow the meetings to be recorded, probably because he's so prone to mistakes! I'm so annoyed because he's got a history of saying one thing to me and then completely denying it!  

I'm being screwed over, there's no other way to describe what's happening!

I wasn't subjected to the same scoring system as the other five because, apparently, I'm in a unique post and there's no-one else in the department, so obviously no-one else could be put up for redundancy. One of the girls showed me the scoring system - it basically shows the areas of the business that they have experience of and a score depending on how much experience you have. I would have had a score in three of the five categories, which is more than some of the people in Operations!

I was told that my QC role was no longer needed but there is still a requirement for QC testing that will now be undertaken by others. Apparently, they are allowed to do this as they are allowed to make the position redundant by justifying it can be done by others.  

Apparently, manufacturing is to be scaled down and that will have a knock-on effect on QC testing. However, QC testing of final product is such a small part of my role that there's still plenty for me to do. People in manufacturing will have less to do so some of them will now be doing QC testing. So because they're not as busy they're going to take work from me to save their jobs and I lose my job! How is that fair? I want to know on what basis that decision has been made - I just keep getting told that my position is no longer there - but that's not a proper explanation as far I'm concerned. If I've not been subjected to a scoring process how do they know I'm the best person to leave?

I'm under no illusions, this is about getting rid of a person, most likely because I get paid most and because I don't live up my boss's  ! It's just so difficult to prove and they're so clever! 

He retracted things that he's said again today when it became clear that I was challenging what he'd said but, again, I've got no proof. I took the HR Manager into the meeting as my representative and she took minutes - in hindsight, this was a mistake because it became clear that she was more interested in protecting the company (and most likely her own job) than been objective.

I did mention about the IVF - my boss admitted starting looking at my job around the time I started my last cycle but, apparently, this was coincidental! I still suspect this has been used against me but, of course, they're saying the IVF has nothing to do with the decision. One of my arguements relating to maternity pay (and them not wanting to pay) fell down because apparently (I'm having to take this on trust) the government pay 92 % of the maternity pay.   I don't know whether I'd have any arguement that they shouldn't have assumed I'd get pregnant (why start looking into this if I may not get pregnant and, even if I did, I wouldn't be leaving for 9 months) and start making plans that have ultimately been detrimental for me i.e. from doing that they've found that they can get rid of me and reduce costs. They've put into action the plans that they developed as a consequence of me having IVF treatment. I realise it's a very weak arguement!

It's been another   day really!

I've got a history of depression and I'm really scared of how quickly the symptoms have appeared after only a few days of this! I've not really eaten and I've hardly slept since Friday. I can't concentrate (I think writing on this thread has been the only thing I've concentrated on), I'm just staring at the television and not taking it in. I can't stop crying and when I'm so emotional I'm thinking really crazy thoughts (I'm not at a stage where I would act on those thoughts but I know from experience how easy it is to lose control and act).  

I'm not particularly bothered about the job - I've been saying I want to leave for a long time but I've not moved because of job stability ( ) and that's been important in this climate. But I need to be working to save for ICSI. All I want is to be a mother and I can see that chance just slipping away - I'm going to have no money and I'm getting older. I know there are some remarkable ladies on here who have reached the end of their journey and accepted that they're never going to experience motherhood but I can't do it, I don't know how to do that.

I've had a really tough few years and I'm sick of it all! I just want it to end, one way or the other.


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## Maisyz (Dec 15, 2010)

Can I suggest you phone ACAS for an opinion. They have a free helpline number for employees 08457 47 47 47. Whilst it is of course legal to remove a role something really doesn't smell quite right about this. Main thing is don't let them stress you out, you deserve better than working for a bunch of idiots.

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1410


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## April33 (Mar 3, 2011)

Hi Maisyz - ACAS seem to be under the impression that my employer are justified in their behaviour! The problem is that I believe my employer's choosing what to say about my role to meet legal requirements! Of course, I can't prove this but I know it's so dodgy. You're absolutely right though, they are a bunch of idiots! I remember when I first told my boss about our fertility issues, I'd not really told anyone at that stage. It was the last day of the lady who's trying to pinch my job before she went on maternity leave. We had a big send-off (which we've never done before, but there's obviously no favoritism there!). I was having a really bad day and so I asked to be excused - she'd spent nine months talking about nothing other than the pregnancy and she'd fallen pregnant almost immediately after starting sleeping with the boss! Anyway, I got into serious trouble for not attending - I wasn't a team player etc. etc. I tried to explain why I was absent because we couldn't have children - my boss shouted at me that he didn't care how I felt, I should have turned up and taking her feelings into consideration! I'd just shared a big, emotional secret and this is what he said to me! I have never, ever forgiven him for that and I hate him so much now!


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## Maisyz (Dec 15, 2010)

Sounds like a horrible bloke, much better to find a job somewhere nicer or just take time out to concentrate on treatment hey. Might be worth a threat to have them for unfair selection and sex discrimination but it is very stressful to do so maybe best to walk away with head held high hey? Just re read your post and obv you'd found ACAS already! Good luck anyway.


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

Sounds awful April.  I think ACAS are advising you on what they know (facts) but it does sound like you're being set up for a fall. They have already breached one condition of the consultation process by denying you a rep - although my guess is they will get round that by saying their HR is your rep. Perhaps you should write to them and state outright that you feel that the redundnancy selelction process is being made in an unfairly biased way and that you are aware that redeployment within an organisation should be considered before redundacies are made and what options are there? At least you would be registering in writing your unhappiness with the way the process is being conducted.
The fact you're being judged differently than others who will then be expected to pick up the elements of your job is very dodgy IMO!

I would try and get a copy of the other documents others have been judged on. Also make sure you get a copy of the minutes for the meeting - and if everything he said is not recorded properly make sure you write to them to tell them what has been omitted and ask for the amended and accurate copy to be produced in a timely manner. Also start documenting everything you can. Everything no matter how small. 

You may well lose your job anyway (and by the sounds of things it'll do you a favour) but you probably have an excellent case for unfair dismissal once you have. If ACAS are not being very helpful over the phone, ask if you can meet face to face with someone - or go to CAB and ask for some legal advice; they may be more helpful.



C~x


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

so sorry it didn't go well.  Don't make yourself unwell go to your GP and get signed off if need be.  take care hun


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