# Diary- Share your thoughts



## astrid

Hi Girls
I saw on one of the threads that there is a place where you can put your thoughts into a diary. Well rather than having an individual one (unless you want to) how about sharing your thoughts with each other..Whatever is bothering you, you can get if off your chest...You do not have to come on here on a daily basis but just to air some of your thoughts (if you want to). Maybe you are feeling upset, angry or need to cry, or just to have a rant atleast we can help share those moments with you. Maybe you want to share the good days as well. We can help each other get through these ups and downs with good input from people who really understand our situation...

So here goes::: 

Wednesday 28th 2005
My thoughts today are ok, but i feel alittle sad as i think i am a bit PMT (better ask my Dh, Ha Ha)....so i am taking everything personally and i feel abit tearful...but also pleased that i got through Xmas in one piece...
I felt alittle sad about not having the one thing we all desire, but i know thats going to come with time to accept this in our lives....I have also discovered the joys of Cider, we nearly cleared the shelves in the local supermarkets, so thats a good sign...

Love Astridxx


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## emcee

Hi Astrid

Fab idea! You must have known I had a wobbly moment today!


Thursday 29th December 2005
I went to the hairdressers today and learned my lovely stylist is pregnant. Whilst I am pleased for her and sincerely hope everything goes ok I was a little sad for me because it hit home (yet again for the millionth time)! how it will never happen for me.

I listened to her telling me all about everything with wonder (and marvelling that she was so calm about it all)! but it was only when I had a quiet moment of reflection later that whammo - like a bolt - I realised that I will never be a part of the elusive parenthood 'club'.

But - do you know what? There is a lot more to any of us than not being able to have kids. We are all wonderful, unique beings in our own right with loads of gifts to give to the world. Sometimes its hard to see that though when we're walloped back into that place of 'ow ow ow'.

So it was ok for me to have a 'woe is me' moment, and its ok for me to be able to look forward to the future and shake my   to the world.

Thank you for letting me splurge all over the place once again!

Lots of love
Emcee xxxxxxxxx

ps, off out to get drunk this evening. One of the things I can do now - that is, drink alcohol and not have to worry about being inbetween treatments etc!


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## flipper

Hi ladies, my diary entry for yesterday was:

Went shopping in the sales, was deeply irritated by 3 spectacularly badly behaved children (accompanied by 3 sets of monumentally hacked of parents) and decided that, just maybe, it's not all it's cracked up to be.  Had a very nice lunch and a rather decent white wine.


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## emcee

flipper said:


> Hi ladies, my diary entry for yesterday was:
> 
> Went shopping in the sales, was deeply irritated by 3 spectacularly badly behaved children (accompanied by 3 sets of monumentally hacked of parents) and decided that, just maybe, it's not all it's cracked up to be. Had a very nice lunch and a rather decent white wine.


Haven't got a clapping hands icon to use flipper, but wanted to say that your message really has made me smile! 
Love to you xxx


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## astrid

Hey emcee
I was also smiling about Flippers comment   ...I couldn't have put it into words better (you definately have a witty streak)....Emcee i like your comments about us as people and women and how much we have to offer in this life...I recently went on a workshop and this subject was brought up and it was enlightening to hear that as women we have so much to discover within ourselves. We tend to look at being a mother and that this is the biggest factor of being a woman. Infact its a small aspect of our lives and having faced a life changing experience we tend to digg deeper and look within ourselves...I found it interesting...

Saturday 31st december

I have been asked to go along to something in February and it is something ordinarily i wouldn't have considered...Then i thought hey why not go along to it life is for living and because i only have my Dh to consider i can do what ever i want..So this was a good feeling for me.....exploring whatever i want to in my life....not everyone has that luxury...

Happy New Year....happy Hogmanany (i am crap at spelling, sorry)...

Lots of love Astridxx


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## irisheyes

Hi, have been on this board a few times but still swaying from trying to live child free to ttc naturally with no luck!!

Here's my diary for yesterday: Mon 9th Jan 2006

Returned to work after 2 weeks off(Teacher) feeling so low and crap! I know everyone hates January but last year i was so full of hope starting our iui treatments.This year i feel very HOPELESS. Af was late b4 Christmas and came Christmas eve.Spent christmas morning in tears,had to cheer up as have 14 yr old stepdaughter so no option. Family all came on boxing Day and sister announced she is getting married in Aug. She is only a year younger than me and i know she has one soul purpose in getting married and that is to have kids!! did a good job of being pleased(i think) and had to hold it in til she went home a week later(lives 100 miles away). 

Spent New years eve day in tears Stepdaughter was out).Then went to mums for dinner on Sunday last and bawled my eyes out!!! Other sister was downstairs (she is also getting married in 18 mths!!!). None of them understand and my mum cant understand why we are not going for more treatment.She keeps saying prayers- have even thought of going back to Church myself after years of not!!!

Dh doesnt know that mum and sister aware of how upset i am(he is so private and doesnt want people knowing our business) but couldnt hold it it.

Wish i didnt feel so afraid all the time when i hear of weddings or other peoples babies!! I want to be me again but always thought i would have kids which is what i really wanted.i am tired of looking after someone elses child as i have done for 10 years nearly -why cant i have my own Afraid i will feel like this for another 5 years!!!

Sorry so down but thats how i feel xxxx


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## Bangle21

Hi Irish Eyes.

I am so sorry you are feeling so down just now. I understand how it feels.

I also understand how bad it feels to get a "failure" on Christmas day.  It happened to me with my first IVF.  

Over the years, I have learned to just let out my feelings.  What's the point in being brave for other people?  They don't understand how hard it is anyway so it can only be a good thing to show them how much this hurts.  It is a nightmare when friends and family announce weddings ....... the feeling of dread fills up in the pit of your stomach because you know what's coming next don't you?

It's funny.  All men seem to be the same.  I know my DH is also very private.  It's me that needs to tell everyone everything!

I notice you are "unexplained".  I hope you don't think this is pushy but have you ever considered looking into immunology issues?  I have just recently been diagnosed with elevated Natural Killer Cells.  The theory is that they attack any embryos that are trying to attach thus stopping me holding a pregnancy /and or getting pregnant in the first place.  It would make sense as all my embryos have been good quality and we have always managed to get eggs fertilised.  I am just about to start trying some natural cycles with the help of aspirin and steroids to "dilute" the killer cells.  Even if you looked into it, it might defer your feelings of "hopelessness".  I know I can't give up until I have at least explored every avenue.  It can be expensive but to be honest, the whole immunology screening was alot less that I thought it would be.  Much less than a private IVF cycle.  Perhaps this is something you could think about?

It is just so hard.  I don't know what else to say except that I do understand.  IF is so frightening and raises many other issues in our lives that we never thought we'd have to face.

I hope this ramble has helped a little.

Look after yourself and go with your heart.
Love Gill x


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## astrid

Hi Irsiheyes and Gill

Tuesday 10th, 2006

Irisheyes - I am so sorry that you are going through such a tough time at the moment. It must have been a very difficult Christmas for you and also a very tough one. I can totally empathise when you mentioned that you want to be a mother to your own child. It must be a very difficult situation to be a step mother expecially with the added IF issues. I hope that you can find some sort of peace and maybe give yourself alittle time before you can start looking at where you are going . Like Gill stated i think our partners tend to be alot more private about the infertility issues, but if you have alot of pent up emotions it has to come out. The way i see it if thats the way they deal with it by being alittle more of a close book then thats fine. But if you need a shoulder to lean on then you must do what you need to do...I often wonder when will our lives get back to a normality when its part of the past...keep in there girl..
Gill - goodluck with everything and i am pleased that you have some answers. I feel sad that this wasn't identified along time ago and maybe you would'nt have to have gone through so much heartache. The thing i suppose we cannot live in the past but move forward. I hope your dream comes true, you have persevered and waited for so long..
Today by the way was flipping crap and a nightmare at work....why do have to work sometimes..well one positive thing is i am going to open a bottle of wine later...ha ha...

Love Astridxx


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## irisheyes

Thanx Gill, might look into those immunology issues. Can i do this thru my gp? I think if i mentionned going to a private clinic again my dh would strangle me. He thinks i have come to terms with not doing anymore treatment which in general i have except when my mum says she thinks he is being selfish!!!! But do i bring it up again and risk another crap few mths with dh or try and deal with no more tests.

Came to work today, was late. cant be bothered with it - hard when you have 5 classes of teenagers coiming at you.

Astrid, thanx for your thoughts also. Hope you are doing ok!!!


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## Bangle21

Wednesday 11 January 2006

Irish Eyes - I will send you a pm.  

Love Gil x


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## emcee

Dear darling ladies & dear diary
15th Jan 2006
Discovered there is a big family party at the end of the month (DH's folks - the 'out' laws). MIL marched around here to Tell Us About The Gathering (thanks, we already knew - lol). 

Each time we go to any family do we get bombarded with thousands of questions from all of his relations about us not having kids yet - they all know I have had 3 ectopic pregnancies and can't get preggers naturally. I'm 38 now - and since I haven't popped out any in the many years me and DH have been together its highly unlikely (actually it's definite)! its ever going to happen!  

Have considered arming myself with a samuri sword and chopping off each persons head who makes an offensive, intrusive or personal comment on our child free status... they never, ever want to know anything else about us - where we are living, how we are keeping etc... they only want to know about why why why we haven't added to the (already huge) population of his family. Note to self - maybe that samuri wasn't such a bad idea?   

As for the party - we haven't decided if we will go or not yet! 

Thanks for letting me share xxx


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## astrid

Hi Emcee

January 15th 2006

I can totally empathise and when you are surrounded by a large family with lots of children this makes it all the more difficult...
Sometimes i wonder why anybody has to know the detailed information anyway...what are they going to do with it and why do they need to know I think its already knowing your past history that hopefully family members would understandknow that it is a very sensitive and painful area of your lives..
I don't know where the answer is because my family do not even mention it...its as if nothing as ever happened and that we are miraculously over it...either way i am not sure if there is an answer...but i wonder if you ever get the balanced feedback you want from your families. I am sure that you find it elsewhere through your partner and friends...through self help groups and fertility friends...
To be honest its about giving up trying to explain because they never really understood in the first place if they couldn't see the pain you went through with the miscarriages. I think the beauty of getting this point in our lives is deciding whether to go to family/friends functions because why put yourself through added pain. We have to do whats best for ourselves and protect each other...
Like you i was at a party last night with lots of children and i thought i am going to switch off...i did and it was great and i ended up having lots of vodkas and orange and got up this morning when i wanted to..ha ha...added bonus..
I hope that you had a nice day either option that you choose to do....
Lots of love astridxx


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## Bangle21

Saturday 14th January 2006 - First day of 2 year counselling course at college with a view to counselling people with IF:

Everything was going fine until they all started talking about their kids and 
I got asked the inevitible question. Anyway, coped OK by simply saying "no" and moved on with the 
rest of the first day. 

There are about 40/50 people sitting around in a circle and the trainer asks 
us to mutually agree ground rules. 

I suggested that whatever is said during "practice", should be kept for 
practice" and not discussed on a personal basis outside the room ie. on 
breaks etc. (ie I will be practising using personal experiences of IF and living "child free" )

I said that some things were difficult to talk about and that I would only be doing it for the purposes of 
this course. Fine, trainer writes it down and we move on. 10 mins later, one 
girl challenges me on this. She says, " I don't understand what you mean" 
How hard can it be??) So, I (go red) and say, "Well, let me give you an 
example, "When I did the introductory course, I found people asking me .... 
and others .... about things we had discussed as part of practice, during 
breaks and I didn't think it was appropriate to probe people on personal 
issues." She still challenges me on it. (bear in mind this is DAY 1 and 
about 40/50 people are by now, all closing in and staring at me!!! 

Do they think I'm a mad woman with loads of demons in the closet?

Then, another girl said, (still in front of this huge group!! ) "But don't you think that people should be allowed to 
talk about it to you because they maybe genuinely care about you?" Well, I 
diplomatically told them I wasn't here to make friends! I was here to do my 
COSCA and that people should be allowed to make their own decisions on who 
they speak to on the course and who they dont (on a personal basis of course). 
I was like, God, get the hint and drop it eh?!! 

I felt quite pleased that I SOMEHOW, (whilst thinking on my feet!!), 
articulated my words well and got my point across - but oh my God, I was 
shaking like a leaf, blushing and could feel my voice breaking away at the end 
as if I was going to break down!! 

Oh My God! Why me?? I ended up kind of laughing and saying, " God this is 
turning out to look like a major issue here and it's not!" 

This is certainly going to be interesting!! 

Why is it that IF is so hard itself, but trying to move on from it all can be even worse?  I felt really down and upset when I came home but I'm NOT letting these people beat me.  I WILL go back next week and hopefully .............

"IF" MAKES US ALL STRONGER!!!!!  HIP HIP HORAYYYYYYY!!

Love to all
Gill xx


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## emcee

I'm applauding you Gill - and also wondering what sort of counsellors the rest of 'em will make because they sound blimmin' awful!

Way to go for you - and you're right, it is other people who make this journey more difficult, as if it wasn't hard enough already!

I want to wish you the best of luck with your course -  not only because you are going to be surrounded by idiots (hopefully they will see the light)! but because its a very inspiring thing to do! And can I add that I think you were 100% right in saying you wanted what was said in there kept in there - have been to similar sorts of things and everyone else seemed to get that things should remain in the room - so am stumped why the rest of 'em couldn't grasp this?  

Love & best wishes to you, am sure you won't let them grind you down.
Yours, in admiration
Emcee xxx


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## irisheyes

Well done Gill, i had considered doing a course like that to somewhere down the line. Let us know how you get on!!!


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## astrid

hi girls

January 21st....sadly on a saturday night but drinking a nice bottle of red wine..

Well just wanted to let you know that i was invited to a christening today. I have put it off for a few weeks and then thought ooops last night i reaslised i haven't even got the child a present or even let my friend know i am attending. So off i go shopping at 7pm last night to get a present. Thats not the real problem its whether i go or not? Finally i came to a decision rthat i wasn't going to attend the actual church event but the social gathering afterwards. I felt better because i was in charge of what i was going to do and that i didn't opt out, which secretely i wanted to do. Infact it was a nice way to spend an hour but later on today i did get abit upset because its so family orientated. The most importnat thing is that i did it and i did what i could manage. So i feel better because i am one step forward at coping with these events and i suppose i just have to accept its one of lifes tapestries...
Well i am off to finish my wine...hee hee

love astridxxxxxxx


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## emcee

Astrid... sending you a big hug as christenings have to be one of the most difficult events to attend in my book - they really bring home everything we don't have.
Love to you and the other ladies too 
Emcee xxx


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## irisheyes

Well done, Astrid!!! I missed 2 christenings last year when i was going thru treatment- couldnt bear to go. Dh went to one with sdaughter and he went to the other one himself. I think you are very brave!!!!


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## astrid

thanks girls......i really apprieciate your comments especially as we all understand the feelings that come with these events......
The only positive thing i had was a banging hangover the next day.....oooops..

Love astridxx


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## lucysmith

Good for you, Astrid. I think in these situations we have to take a deep breath and be grown up about it all and be pleased we have friends who want us to be part of their lives. 

Has anyone had to deal with being asked to be a Godmother yet? I have some friends who are on to number 2 baby and other very good friends who are about to start trying. I'm wondering how I would cope if any of them asked me to be a Godmother and would I feel like they thought they should because of my situation. Any thoughts?


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## irisheyes

Hi Lucy, i was asked to be a God mother 2 years ago.Unfortunately at the time i was at the start of my bad phase.But fortunately my friend lives 4 hours away and i only see her once a year. She has gone thru her own troubles with the father of her kids running off to Spain and contacting her when suits.I think to be honest she asked me to make me feel better but i felt that as i wouldnt be around very much she would be better asking her sister. She didnt take offence as i wrote anice letter to her explaining.

However my sister is getting married in Aug- she is 34 so i am sure willnot be waiting long to start a family.I KNOW she will ask me and as i have recently informed her of my fertility problems(altho she always suspected) at least she wont expect it to be easy for me. i feel i would have to do it in that situation as i am the big sister and will feel i have a duty.It will be hard but that is a year or so away.Hopefully i will be stronger then xxx


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## emcee

Hi Lucy

To be honest, me and hubby have been innundated with requests to be godparents, but after all the past awful experiences we have had with others, and never seeing any of our godchildren (5 of them) we decided we would never be godparents again. We both know we have been the 'token childless couple' and that is the only reason we have been asked. The reason why I think this is because once the christening is over none of the parents have ever wanted to remain in touch, even though we have tried to keep all lines of communication open. Sadly, this includes a close family christening as well.  

I was even made a godparent by proxy once, I had no prior knowledge - the only notification I had was a card sent to my place of work informing me! I was flabbergasted at the cheek, and amazed that you could actually do this sort of thing?! I had never even seen the child, nor was I asked! (I have yet to see the child some 11 years later, since I have no idea where the parents live, nor do they know where I live this is not likely to happen)!

I really don't know if your friends would ask you because of your situation, although if I am honest, it wouldn't surprise me. People can think with the best intentions in the world that they are doing you a favour yet people can be so difficult to gauge - we thought we were doing the right thing by our friends and hubby's brother then discovered otherwise. I would say to anyone who didn't feel like they could go through being a godparent to explain to their friends and family. If they loved them and wanted the best for them (as we generally do for our nearest and dearest) they would understand, like Irisheyes' friend.

Sorry if I have wittered on a bit there!
Love 
Emcee xxx


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## astrid

Hi Girls
Interesting point about being asked to be 'God-parents'...to be honest i think its a situation where you are being asked for many different reasons. It always hits home about why you have been asked and like Emcee said it doesn't always work out the way you thought it would.
My Hubby and i changed our minds about this subject because we are also God parents to a family member and we took this role on seriously. We had to laugh because in converstation so many months later we were told that if anything happened to them, the children would go to other family members who are not God parents. So we now think whats the point, the whole idea of being a God parent was a mockery to us and it took the shine out of it.
So i can put my hand on my heart 100% and say i am happy never to be asked again and there will be no tears in this direction if this invitation went to someone else...
I hope i don't sound too horrible......oooops 
love astridxx


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## emcee

Dearest AStrid... you - sound horrible? Never!

I am sat here nodding my head in agreement with what you said... me and my hubby took our responsibilities very seriously as godparents too - only to be treated with derision, which is why we made a stand and declared no more! Even though we have made our intentions clear about this, we STILL get asked to be godparents - and we are still refusing all requests!  

Sometimes you have to put yourself first - call it self preservation, call it it doing the right thing for you - it has to be done!

Love to you
Emcee xxx


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## astrid

Sunday 29th January

Thankyou Emcee its good to know that we are not alone in our thinking!!!! 

Well i just have to share this one....i met up with friends on friday and they are both recently grandparents (young ones). Well what a night it was almost comical. We are sitting around the table and my friend starts about the baby. Fine i can understand that this subject was going to come up. She went on and on and on, which we thought ok but after a while it was becoming a headache. She hit a raw note when she then went onto explain her feelings of being a grandmother and it was like being a mum over again bla bla bla. I then asked them to change the subject because i didn't have to know all the emotional details there is only so much i can listen to. She didn't change the subject even when my hubby asked her too and she kept  going on and on again. I explained that we have come out for a meal and we understand the need for them to want to share their good news but we at this point are not interested. I then said can you share it with your friends because this isn't a good topic for us as we thought they understood our situation. She was still going on and then i announced lets talk about knitting and there was silence and i said there you are you are not interested and i rest my case. She then starting getting upset and said 'its not fair'. I thought ooops i have pushed it too far even though i was getting upset at this point. She then went onto add that her daughter keeps putting on her and i lost it by saying you need to swap over and live in our shoes . I then realised that all through this conversation it was about her and her feelings. We meant nothing and neither did our pain on the subject.
But hey there is a positive side to this because i stood up for myself and tried to take some control. I also realised that i am not going to endure a subject that is sensitive to me and that also i am now going to even more surround myself by people that are likeminded. Whether they have children or not but people who have other subjects to talk about in life other than kids. I am aware that people have off spring but i don't have to be subjected to listen to it all night....I feel better anyway and something that would have distressed me maybe a week ago i am now laughing about it...
I thought i would just share this bizarre conversation and i am surprised we nearly didn't get thrown out of the restuarant......ooops..
Have a good evening...
love astridxx


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## emcee

OMG Astrid!

I've been there when insensitive so called 'friends' have had one sided conversations, it is one sided when there is nothing you can contribute! Good for you for sticking up for yourself!

Hope you don't mind me sharing, I remember vividly a bbq that we were invited to last year after our failed IVF. Me and DH were the only people without kids which has never proved a problem in the past. Anyway, the blokes were all talking blokey stuff and the women were all talking kiddy stuff - I was left
to my own devices sat in the corner on my own as one by one (because it had been ascertained I had no kids therefore I had nothing in common with the rest of them) the other women floated off to join the mothers gossiping about schools, kids clothes etc.  

Well DH noticed and he put his drink down and said to his so called 'mate' that we were leaving - he could see what the other women had done and he said it beggared belief - I have never seen him so fuming! So off we went, to the pub instead where it was much more pleasant because there were no screaming kids running around getting hot and bothered in the beer garden  

By the way... these are now ex friends of ours because that was one last straw too many!   And the sense of relief at surrounding yourselves with people who love you because of what you are, and who you are as opposed to what offspring you have produced are worth their weight in gold in my book!

Lots of love to you, well done for sticking up for yourself! Good on ya!

Emcee xxx


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## astrid

hey Emcee
Who needs enemies....?
All i can say what a lovely caring hubby that you have and how he noticed what was happening at the BBQ. 
Those sort of men do not grow on trees and i have to say my hubby also intervened the other night but she was off on another planet...Well as you say it looks as if they are 'ex pals' now, well you know the saying 'am i bothered'....
Its quite a sad route really we are taking but also a good one because you begin to know yourself and gain alittle confidence. I feel sad that i have lost friends along the way but if i am honest i do not miss them and i am not sure if they not as nice as i thought....
Thanks for sharing your BBQ because i do not feel so alienated as i am sure we have had these experiences but it is how you address them that i found was the important ingredient to me....
love astridxx


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## Bangle21

Hi Astrid and Emcee,

Well, I can totally empathise with both of you.  As you have seen from my thread about losing friendships, I too have removed myself from 2 friends and feel much more liberated for it as well!

It is not an easy thing to do but I think in time, I definitely felt the benefit .... as you say ..... it's about taking control of your life and making choices ... although not always easy but it definitely makes you feel stronger and gives you the confidence to look after yourself after years of SH*t and pain.

Good on you.  Don't dwell on this girls, ........ my advice is ........ put your energy into more productive, fulfilling relationships with people who genuinely care about you.

From someone who understands, AND CARES!!!
Lots of love,
Gill xo


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## lucysmith

I am just starting to get into these types of situations myself. This weekend it was my friend's 30th birthday and we stayed in some cottages. There were about 30 people there and there were three couples with kids (five kids in all). We arrived on the Friday and by Saturday night I had, had enough. I thought I was quite good at handling these situations, but obviously not. I kept it all together, but when I got home last night I cried myself to sleep. 

Also, it's my 30th in May and my friend from the weekend and other best mate can't come if I have a party on my birthday. Then I realised over the weekend that most of my other friends are either tied up with kids, away in another country or 'fringe friends' that probably wouldn't make a big effort to make it. Then I started thinking, this is the beginning of the end, because in the next ten years most of my friends will be having kids and things are going to get really difficult. How will I cope if I am literally the only one without any kids?

Then I decided I would go to Ireland to see my mum and dad instead. But even my mum emails me about her friend who has just had a baby girl with loads of details etc. It's my fault for not telling her how painful it all is, but I don't want to make a fuss. Tonight dh has gone to bed early because he is sick of me going on about my birthday and what I am going to do and where to stay and stuff.  

Why is it that other people have to make us feel like drama queens if we are having a hard time dealing with stuff? We all know there's little we can do to solve things, but that doesn't make it any easier. I really feel like I can't talk to anyone about this stuff because no one I know understands. This is really bad because then I just bottle it all up.


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## irisheyes

I hope you get your birthday sorted out Lucy.I know what you mean about your mum going on about someone elses child. I hadnt really told my mum much either up until last year as when i went for a laperoscopy 4 yrs ago she told my sisters AND brother!!!! I was furious and had a big row with her. It was telling my brother which was the last straw! Although i was close to him it was so personal(not like you were getting an investigation on your leg!!! or something!!!)

We kept it all to ourselves family wise but then my sil and bil started icsi treatment. It was dhs brother and he wouldnt talk about it either so even his wife and i couldnt mention it if he wanted. I finally told my mum last year after our treatment failed and again fell apart with her(and my youngest sister) a few weeks ago!!! Dh doesnt know any of this as he would be mortified and he doesnt know that i am even on this site.Sometimes i like it that way as it is just for me!!! However, i think mu mum understands a bit better now but i know if my sisters have kids(and both are getting married in next 18 mths) that she will probably expect me to be happy for them!!!

I only go out with a few friends now- one girl who had cancer and had to have a surrogate baby.She is now 2. i can cope with that as i know how much my friend went thru.I have 2 single friends (well one is dating a guy 5 yrs younger and doesnt know if it will last). The other i went to a fund raising event with a few mths ago and it was the first time there were loads of small  kids together. I coped by thinking about my friend who didnt have a husband never mind a child!!

I find it harder to cope with young kids when i am with my dh- i feel he is constantly watching me to see if i am upset!! Sometimes i am and then he wants to leave in case i fall apart in front of people! He has a friend who has just had his 10th kid!!! He is able to be happy for him and even drops off my stepdaughters old clothes to them.I cant face it.I also feel my stepdaughter is watching as well(although we havent told her about ttc- she is nearly 15) i am sure she has picked up on things.It took me 9 mths to tell her about my friends baby(the one who is a surrogate) as i couldnt face her asking" why are you not having any"!!!

We are all here for you Lucy and WE UNDERSTAND!!! Try and stick to people you like and forget those who dont even try to understand!!! xxxxxx


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## lucysmith

Thanks, Irisheyes. Hopefully I'll feel better in a few days. It really is stupid, as my friend whose birthday it was has just split from her boyfriend, so if anyone should be miserable it should be her and she wasn't making a fuss.


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## lucysmith

Just changed my avatar, that's cheered me up!


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## irisheyes

Good for you!!!!


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## astrid

hi lucy

I love your avatar.......i am jeolous....

love astridxxx


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## flipper

I'm going to expose myself as a knuckle dragging Luddite here but what's an avatar?!


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## irisheyes

The ticker at the bottom , i think


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## irisheyes

Ps what is a luddite more to the point!!!


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## lucysmith

The avatar is the picture that you use to represent your online identity. I chose a carefree cowgirl.


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## astrid

Hey Flipper
it took me ages to work out what an avatar is....

Thursday 2nd february

I had a chat with a friend yesterday and it was a very interesting one. She is now thinking about having children as she has been putting off for such a long time. I understand we all do things for different reasons. She knows about us and our treatments and has been very supportive. The thing that struck me was when she turned around and said that she has sort of prepared herself just incase she couldn't have children. I started to say that i don't think you are aware of the extent of what IF brings to you. I also said that i hope with all my heart than this does not happen to you both. It made me think that did i ever know what IF would bring and my answer was 'no'. The other conclussion was i never want those first feelings ever again of being so desperate for a baby. The other thing is i wanted to say to her you haven't got a clue and you have a shock coming to you but i couldn't because its her life and it could go either way...its something she will never probably know but may have to face....
It just got me thinking...

love astridxx


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## lucysmith

Interesting. I have a friend who will be trying this year, but it's weird cos it seems like she is a bit scared about it all too because it has the potential to be totally life altering and also cos not all of our friends have babies yet. I also wonder what would happen if she found she couldn't have them.  I secretly wish I had a friend who would really understand what it's like, but that is not a nice thought. I also have other really awful thoughts like being jealous of people who have miscarried because they have actually been pregnant. Sorry if this offends anyone, but it's weird how twisted your mind can get.


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## irisheyes

I know how you feel Lucy.I too have felt jealous of people who can actually get pg.Awful isnt it? I had tests done for miscarriage recently and they came back clear- i was almost wishing they would have been positive so then I could have at least said that i had been pg at least once. Thats probably even worse but its as if people understand more if you have had a miscarriage than not be able to get pg at all. Does that even make sense

I do have one friend who got cancer of the womb at 28, and had to have a complete hysterectomy.She was only married 2 yrs and had just started ttc.I have remained close to her as she can experience the fact that she cant conceive although she now has a 2 yr old girl thru surrogacy.I think she understands more than any one else. It still hurts her when her cousins and friends announce pregnancies.


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## crocodile

I don't know why it still amazes me but it does...........

I remember coming on this website when I was first going thro' IVF and now facing the fact that its not going to work for us why am I so amazed to find people who feel the same way!!! or sometimes slightly differently but along the same lines..but it is so comforting to be able to exchange views and sacred thoughts with those who understand

Everyone is just echo'ng how I think and feel.....Lucy even tho' I had the one BFP... can you understand that I know totally how you feel? after years of unprotected sex we had one ectopic and nothing since even tho' i was told the tube we had the ectopic from was almost totally blocked I wonder how it happened when the other one I have is supposedly not so bad (though totally knackered) and yet nothing and because it was ectopic i wonder if I am ever capable of carrying a baby in my womb where it should be??

But in some ways i think differently from some of you cos I think, where there is unexplained, there is always hope. Wiith knackered tubes or no tubes you haven't even got that!!!!!!!!  and you know if its not IVF then its nothing. Then you get people still insist on telling you (even when its a biological impossibility) that they know someone who knows someone who after years of trying, stopped thinking and trying and wham it happened (even my own sister believe it or not) and you want to scream!!!!!!!!!!!

In the end reality is that what for ever reason some of us don't experience pregnancy, childbirth, parenthood and its so not fair.

I hate this time of year cos 'child of our time' is on the tele and it started in 2000 which is when I had the ectopic jan 5th 2000 to be presise so all of the children on there are a constant reminder of where our little (girl) would have been. I say this little girl cos I have always been told by all the mediums I have been too since that it was a little girl and I also dream of a little girl visiting me in my dreams so perhaps they are right. But the tv program is always a constant reminder and i spose thats what comes of losing a baby around the time of the millenium..

Believe me and I can so understand what you all are saying (for those who have never experienced even being pregnant), to experience it for a few weeks and then lose it and never to know it for a full nine months with a baby to hold at the end of it and to know that it was your one and only chance of experiencing pregnancy is not a good thing at all...Its not twisted lucy to feel as you feel I think this whole thing twists our thoughts in one way or another, everything is natural and every feeling we have is real 

I now know at 43 that what I experienced was my one and only chance. In some ways I am grateful to have experienced pregnancy but when it ended in tragedy at 10 1/2 weeks and nearly cost me my life it was not a happy experience and now when I see the 'child of our time' prgrammes adverstised its a painful reminder but in a warped way I am grateful for the two weeks I had knowing I was pregnant (cos it was ectopic  i didn't know until I was 8 weeks) and the little time I had to dream.., So lucy and anyone else on here who feels the same way I can so appreciate what you are saying cos I wish I had known what it felt like to have the scans and everything after the 10 week period but instead  I have the heartache of remembering when my little one would have been born (1st august 2000) and the day 'she' died (5th august 2000) so I paid the price for my experience too and I spose given the choice, I would not have those experiences.  But then I appreicate, how you who have not had those feel and I can understand you wanting to know what it is like....

If you ever do I wish you a full and happy and successful experience and nothing else

lots of love
Maureen


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## Bangle21

Hi girls,

Isn't this site a Godsend?

Firstly, I would like to ask all of you not to "apologise" for how you're feeling.  We are all here to support each other and thank God for that!  There is no "normal", no "right" or "wrong".  Strangely, we all have different experiences of IF but somehow, we can empathise if not fully understand each other.

I would like to add that, I don't think it's selfish to be jealous of people who "can" "at least" fall pregnant.  Trying to conceive for 7 years, having 9 failed treatments and then finally a miscarriage, I can still TOTALLY understand how it feels to be jealous of people who can conceive, even although I miscarried myself.  

All those years of trying and failed treatments, I used to wish I could have even a moment of joy by seeing those 2 lines.  Now that I've experienced it, I still understand how real that want is if you've never quite managed it yourself so please don't apologise.

I think having the m/c has made me more determined, even although it took me 6 years to get a + in the first place.  The funny thing was, I didnt even get the chance to enjoy it.  I'd had a bleed and was devasted so went to Edinburgh for a long weekend to get totally ****** out my head, eat like a pig and take lots of long hot baths.  I didnt hand my sample into my clinc until about 1.5 weeks after they told me to as I was convinced it had failed given the bleed.  It never even CROSSED MY MIND that it would be + after all these years.  So, I got a phone call from my clinic at work the following  Friday (a week after my weekend away) and they said it was a faint positive.  OMG - then on the Monday, I'd to go back for bloods and they told me it wasn't progressing well as my HCG wasn't rising enough.  So I really didnt get the chance to enjoy it and dream ..........

God, this was all almost a year to the day now .........................

What am I trying to say here I suppose all I'm saying is that we ALL know PAIN.  Regardless of how it creeps upon us, we all know how PAIN feels and so we shouldn't feel guilty about having these thoughts ....

We are all here for each other and we do understand.

Hope this gives hope and inspiration to you girls,  I'm STILL trying to stay positive .......... very, very difficult.

Love to all
Gill xo


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## emcee

Ahhh...Lucy  

Don't feel bad hon, we are all coming from different angles here, and yet our paths have crossed through this place here and we are traipsing down this long path together, all of us. I hope you don't mind me sharing with you a little bit of my history?

I tried for 13 years to get to the stage of being pregnant and although I have been pregnant 4 times. 3 of them were ectopic, and very scary, and indeed with 2 of them I had no idea I was pregnant until I was rushed into hospital. The symptoms from each individual ectopic were totally different. You can still get your period you see - and you may not necessarily have any pregnancy symptoms, although some women like darling Croc do, and the pregnancy tests I had been doing were all negative. The 3rd one I had 24 hours of knowing before I had surgery, thanks to me being clued up enough to know I didn't feel 'right'. I was so poorly after my op they thought they were going to lose me. I've also had a miscarriage after IVF, which was so overwhelming - I was so terrified I was going to have yet another ectopic I didn't have the chance to enjoy the week and a half I knew I was pregnant. They were going to do a scan at 6 weeks to see where the pregnancy was, I never made it that far. And this really does sound awful - although I was heartbroken at having a miscarriage, a part of me was also relieved that it wasn't another ectopic.   so sorry if I have upset anyone there, that is how I felt at the time.

Loss is loss - and loss of hopes and dreams for the future be it through IF or the loss of a baby are heartbreaking. I hope I don't cause distress to anyone here by saying the difference between an ectopic and a miscarriage though is the fact that you halve or lose your fertility at the same time as your baby (in most cases) and often you end up having to have radical surgery to save your life, or methotrexate administered. Its such a horrific thing to go through, knowing that there is no chance of a viable pregnancy, and that neither of you will make it unless the drs intervene. I'm not minimising the pain caused by miscarriage either, because I have experienced that too.

Thank you so much Lucy for helping me to get my thoughts around this - what I have just wrote here is something I have been mulling over for some time - I have a friend who says she understands what its like to lose a baby and yes, she has had a miscarriage, and I know how devastating it was and still is for her, even now shes the proud mum of 3... but she hasn't experienced an ectopic, and I sincerely hope she never will. You writing what you have and me responding to you has helped me get this out into words that I can show/tell my friend, and hopefully she will have a little more insight to where I'm coming from, and others like me.

I'm very honoured to be able to read all of your thoughts, and very glad this place is here.

Lots of love to everyone
Emcee xxx


----------



## crocodile

sorry to everyone here for taking this thread away for a moment from what its spose to be about but Emcee my heart goes out to you, three ectopics how awful...

I had the one and it was very traumatic, like you i had negative hpt's for 8 weeks and periods although like you I did not feel right....then suddenly I got a postive test at 8 weeks (though I did not know that at the time)..Because it was the milleninium I waited until the new year for the scan and we went on 5th jan..when they pressed down on my belly it ruptured and I passed out and was rushed to the operating theatre, my blood pressure hit the floor and it was touch and go for an hour and I awoke to find out that my dream had gone along with my right tube, people were glad I was alive I wish I had died.........since there have been lots of times I have been 'convinced' I was pregnant, now I know like everyone on here how strong the mind can be over the body and what tricks it can play..I have never seen that line since but more than anything I wish I could see that heartbeat on the scan I wonder so much what that must be like cos thats the one thing that truly matters, lines don't mean anything really..........now at 43 I know that a line was as good as it got for us 

so sorry to upset anyone but I had to add my experience..

Maureen


----------



## bethan_s

Dear all, 

A HUGE   FOR YOU ALL 

I have just spent agers reading through most of the posts on here and with almost all of them I can relate. I don't know if you all agree or not but I almost feel as though I am grieving for a child I never had. I ache physically and mentally. I then feel guilty for feeling 'sorry' for myself when there is worse in the world. I feel totally angry for been jeolous of other peoples lives (women who are pregnant)I am at the moment avoiding my next door neighbour who is pg and if I do see her I am upset for agers after. I just wish I could be happy for them, and enjoy things I enjoyed before. I just want to get up on a morning and forget about ttc and ovulation, Cycle days. Dh and I have decided we are only having 1 go of IVF (mainly money reasons) and if that doesn't happen I know I have to accept it... but will I ever? 

Take care, Love B x


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## bethan_s

Maureen,

As your post was the last I read it stuck in my mind, ((((((((((((hugs)))))))))) I got tears in my eyes hun! Don't feel bad its good to 'talk' and it can help others. I for one think you are a brave lady and I can understand totally why you felt the way you did.

Take care, Love B x


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## lucysmith

Thank you all for sharing your stories with me and understanding.


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## emcee

Croc darling ((((((hugs)))))))
Just wanted to say I understand, and I am so sorry about your loss and everything that has happened to you. 
Tons of love and shared understanding
Emcee xxx


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## crocodile

Hi

sorry I have not been around, had a wireless connection fitted a few weeks ago that has been a bit flaky and about ten mins after posting my msg the other night it finallly packed up...anyway got it sorted yesterday so here I am...

Thanks for the lovely posts, its been 6 years since I had my ectopic and I think now and again it really hits me, didn't mean to upset anyone but I must have been in a bit of a maudlin (is that how you spell it??) mood the other night...had another one last night as I over did it yesterday and my back started really hurting (I have fractured my sacrum and broken my finger).  I wasn't really getting much sympathy from my DH - well I can't blame him as he is a greengrocer and goes out about 23:30 on friday and comes back in about 20:00 last night so he was a bit tired and could only manage a few sympathetic grunts....so I really started to miss my mum and I so wished she was here to give me some sympathy...it seems pathetic I know I am 43 but I don't think you ever get use to not having your mum around and even though its been two years since she died there are times that I really really miss her............god I am getting such a depressing cow... let me change the subject.

Well I hope that astrid is having a great time, we are going to try to go away for a few days next weekend (well sunday to tuesday to be precise) as my DH has to run his stall on saturday...

Hope you all have a lovely relaxing sunday planned...I think we may go out to lunch...wait and see when my poor tired DH gets out of bed....

I really want him to set me up a photography tent for my website photos, but I'll spring that one on him tomorrow 

For those of you who don't know my new baby and all my focus since giving up IVF is setting up a new business so I can give up working in london and all that travelling and have more time with my DH.  I am having a website built (by Tony the founder of this site) and I will be selling jewellery and accessories for weddings and special occasions.....the majority of my stuff comes from the US and is a mixture of swaroski, pearls, diamante and all different styles and ranges...and I need the photography setup to take photos, I have been reading about it on the net and have tried to take some photos and believe me it is not easy....I can't get it done professionally as unlike other sites I am not buying in a huge quantity of a limited range, I am buying small quantities of a huge range so I can have a lot of variety and people can buy something unique in the knowledge they can wear it to their special occassion and be pretty certain no-one else wll be wearing the same thing....sorry I launched into a sales pitch there.  I can't help myself.

I must get use to putting little posts on here, I am in danger of boring you all silly...

have a great sunday everyone

Maureen


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## astrid

Hi girls
I have just read through the postings and i feel so sad that there has been so many traumas and upsets for everyone..
There never seems to be any solution but to me whatever way you look at it, its amounts to a very big loss in all of our lives. The loss that will affect our lives one way or another today and the future.
I was one of the girls who never got a blue line thoughout any of our treatments and this left me feeling confused as i had nothing to grieve over. There was never a pregnancy but the loss was always there. All i can say is with time it gets alittle easier but it does do my head in that i never knew the answer why we could never get pregnant..
Then again i do feel so sad about the situations that alot of women have had to go through and i think maybe i got off lightly at times..
My heart goes out to you all...
lots of love astridxx


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## astrid

hello Folks

February 28th, 2006

Anyone out there at the moment.....its abit slow at the moment. Is everyone busy doing lots of things to take their mind of things..?
Well things are ok at the moment. Busy trying to get fit for my trek to Vietnam in November. I realise that i started early to try and get fit, but flipping needed to. I have spent the last two weeks with leg cramps and walking like John Wayne.
What about you girls, is everything ok?

love astridxx


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## irisheyes

Hi Astrid and girls . I was off the week after you were away on half term so i had a break from site.I didnt really do much but had a few lie ins and went shopping. Did a few things with step daughter as hadnt done much since Christmas with her. Most weekends she is in town now on a Saturday anyway but also i had been feeling low all January and part of Feb. Thats the duty done til next hols!!!

Went to see the film " Walk the line " about Johnny cash, which i thought was excellent!  Reese Witherspoon and Joaquin Phoenix sang all the songs too.Would recommend it if you havent seen it!!

This weekend i am going to see my sister (who lives 100 miles away) under the guise of helping her look for wedding stuff! I always go to see her with my mum and stepdaughter so i knew dh would wonder why i am going alone!! Havent been away on my own for nearly 2 years!!! My sister wanted to talk to me about if issues etc as i had sent her a long e mail in January explaining how i was feeling especially with her impending wedding. So instead of driving as i normally do i am going by train and can have a wee drink to myself! We will go for dinner too and maybe shop for wedding shoes- she got her dress. I am looking forward to it!! Then i am going to france at the end of June with mum and 2 sisters as our last hol before they settle down. Have to take my mind off ttc some way !!!  

So i have been feeling a bit better i suppose. I thought i cant go on worrying for another 6 months til sister gets married. However on the ttc naturally front we have been bad this month, just too tired!!! I am still waiting to hear from gp about clomid but was going to phone yesterday. might do it next week.maybe if she doesnt get back to me i should take it as a sign! What do you girls think? I am afraid of the mood swings it can bring but i dont want to get so depressed again about it all xxxx


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## astrid

Hi Irisheyes
I am glad that you are feeling alittle better. A few lie ins do the world of good and it sounds as if you needed it. I am glad that you are spending time with your sister and going up by train that means you can relax and have a few drinks. Also its nice to feel normal to have relaxation, a good chat and a nice meal. This i am sure will do you the world of good...
As far as the 'Walk the line' film goes i would love to see it. I saw a documentary on Johnny Cash recently i wasn't interested at first, but i really got into it. When he he did his last song about himself before his death i was crying my eyes out...So yep i am going to go and see it now that you have recommended it..
As far as this being a bad month, turn it around and look at it as a good one..It maybe the time and space that you both needed. Its such a pressure that maybe its given you a clearer mind. Concerning the clomid i think you just need to follow your heart. If this month is not the right one then there is always next month..It sounds as if you are unsure what to do at this moment in time, It will come to you when you are ready (if we ever can totally). Maybe after the weekend away this will give you time to collect your thoughts together...
Love astridxx


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## Smurfs

Hi girls

Hope it is ok of I post over here. My story in brief, we fall under the wonderful heading of 'unexplained', I am 36 and my DH is only 25, been through test after test and Clomid for 6 months, finally had IVF and got ourselves a BFP but lost our much wanted baby at 8 weeks. After lots of    we have been back TTC the 'natural' way but no such luck. We have finally taken the step in talking about 'moving on' and 'our future' without children. A very heartbreaking conversation but one we needed to talk about, we are not ready to give up yet but IF is taking it's toll. It is hard to make plans that don't include children and it is hard to say 'when', we have spoken about a 'cut off' point but I feel it just adds more pressure on us both while we are TTC. 
I just wanted to share my thoughts with you, I hope this is ok.

Shaz xxx


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## irisheyes

Thurs 2nd March 2006

Welcome Shaz , we too are unexplained although dh has dd from previous relationship. we are the opposite age gap to you! I am 35 and dh 10 years older!

It is hard to know when to move on - i have been on this board on and off since Sept last year after failed iuis (and a mini break down of sorts). I was doing ok until Christmas and went into a bad patch January/early february.I went to gp for anti deps and she then asked me why i hadnt tried clomid!!! So i was in limbo land again!!! We are not planning ivf so this would be our last go.Dont think dh is too keen tho as i think he would like to get pg naturally or just accept it.

It is hard to move on but you are most welcome on this board with Astrid as our leader!!! She is a very strong person i think and has helped a lot of us not go completely insane.!!!  

BTW Astrid, i was on my way to school this morning (late due to snow ) and saw an old friend who must have been dropping her son off to nursery.She just passed me in the car but it was weird as we still live close enough and i havent seen her in 4.5 years as she got pg  after 1 month married  and we had already been ttc 2.5 years then. I was devastated at the time and what annoyed me was that she never tried to stay in touch as she was obviously so excited about her own life. This upset me as i think if the roles were reversed i would have tried to keep in touch with her. You dont have to meet up with kids in tow all the time.She has had another one since then! 

I t was just strange seeing her as we used to be very close. She was actually my sisters friend first, then mine and funnily my sister still sees her when she comes home. Must also mention that to sister at the weekend.

I think i will make decision about phoning gp after the weekend and if she hasnt made any progress with tallking to specialist i will let it go as i dont know if i can go thru it all again.thanx for the advice!!! xxxx


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## Smurfs

March 3rd 

Irisheyes

Thank you for the welcome. I would like to post on here on and off if that is ok. I look forward to chatting to you all.

Well I have taken another step today and made a call to a counsellor, I have had the number for some time but I have taken the step today, but of course, I got the answer phone but I left my details and I shall look forward to hearing back from her. I feel it is something I need and I wish I had done it earlier. Do any of you girls see one? 

Have a good weekend
Love Shaz xxx


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## astrid

Dear Shaz and IrishEyes

Sunday 5th march

Shaz -I am sorry that i haven't got back to you...
Firstly welcome and you are please feel free to post here anytime..i can understand that you are going through so many mixed emotions at the moment..
I am sorry about the loss of your baby that must have and still is a painful experience...
I think its positive news that you are seeking a counsellor because this will help you work through all your issues. It takes a tough and brave person to make this first step...
Please though take one step at a time and just carry on trying but maynot putting the pressure on yourselves. Just work things through with the counsellor and maybe the loss of your child is one area that needs to be tackled first. We really do put pressure on ourselves but our mind and body can only take so much...so be gentle on yourself....and of course your hubby...
Irisheyes....i hope that you had a lovely weekend..you sounded as if you needed a break..Goodluck in whatever decision you find yourself in with the G.P....but remember do it for yourself...
As far as friends and pregnancy is concerned well it takes us on an emotional path and you certainly find the good or not so good ones....this has made me sad over the years but hey don't we just wanted to be surrounded by people that care...i think we do after he crap we have been through...
Thanks for your kind words....i think thank goodness we have each other as we all would have cracked up.. .
love astridxxx


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## Smurfs

Astrid

Monday 6 March 

Thank you so much for your welcome. Just wanted to update on my counsellor front, I have made my first appointment for next Thursday evening. It has taken me sometime to own up to the fact of needing help or someone to talk to and I am so pleased I have. This is the first positive step I have taken since the loss of our baby, I feel like I have been on auto pilot and just existing while life passes me by. I have been counting down the days until my due date, which is Wednesday, I think I am hoping to wake up on Thursday morning feeling like a totally different person, how silly does that sound? 

Thanks for listening to me.
Love Shaz xxx


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## astrid

Hi Shaz

I am so glad that you have made your first appointment...i understand about what you were saying living on 'auto pilot'...its as if you are another person and you just exist and not live...
I am sure the counsellor will help you to deal wth all these emotions and help you to move out of this existance and find some sort of peace. Its a whole load of emotions that you are experiecing and its a heart breaking to go through a miscarriage.
I am sure that other girls who have been through a miscarriage can relate to what you are going through at the moment. I am sure what you are feeling is totally normal and understandable, it must be a very painful and emotional time for you at the moment...
May i suggest that you both do something the night before or on the day...have you thought about lighting a candle for your loss....its very therapeutic and it also has a very symbolic meaning....
I am sure it will be hard but maybe crying and letting those emotions go will help you to move forward, which you have already made steps towards doing...well done...
thinking of you...
lots of love astridxxxx


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## Smurfs

Hi Astrid

Tuesday 7 March

Many thanks for your reply.

We have made plans for tomorrow, we are going to the beach to release a balloon and tomorrow evening we are going to have a meal/wine and light a candle for our angel. 

I am with you on the crying and letting out the emotions, in one way I am looking forward to tomorrow being over as this date has been hanging over me since the day I lost, been a very long struggle and I am looking forward to the release. I shall never forget but I need to move on. I am pleased I had the treatment and I shall never forget the pleasure and happiness I had for 8 weeks, I waited 5 years for that and I shall hold it in my heart forever, no-one can take that away from me. 

At the same time I shall never forget the heartbreak I have felt as well but I intend to work on that and I hope I can find a way to live and cope with it and for me and DH to get back to out old selves and be happy once again and laugh again.

Thanks for being so understanding. I am so sorry my post has been about me, I have not really had the chance to get to talk to you or any of the other girls, I will do.

Shaz xxx


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## astrid

March 8th 2006

HI Shaz

There is nothing wrong in expressing how you feel at this present moment. We all need support at different times and at this moment you need alittle bit of tender loving care..
I wish you both all the best tomorrow and tonight and i hope that you find some sort of release that comes out of this spiritual event...it can be so comforting in a strange way..
Shaz just take it easy its been a very difficult time for you. Even though you experienced something so special its also very sad that it was taken away from you and that must be so hard....
I hope by working through with your counsellor that pain will lessen and you will be more equipped with dealing with it....i think we somehow learn to live with it but it comes with time...
You sound a very strong person you maynot realise it but you are making positive steps forward. That gives you strength of character and that will get you through this grey area in your life...
Goodluck....
love astridxxx


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## astrid

Tuesday 19th April

Hi Girls
I thought i would just write this down.Sometimes you think you are ok and then you get the phone call to tell you that your friend is pregnant. Thats what happened to day and of course it hurt. After the phone call i decided to walk my dog around the park, to get my thoughts together. I realised that it wasn't the real reason why i was upset. I was upset because of the sadness of our lives and what this IF pain has brought for us. I felt better that i could cope with her pregnancy, but felt more sad about our loss. It was a revelation to know that i am going to cope with this news. But my sadness and tears are for myself and my hubby.. .
Then the strangest thing then happened, a lad of about 10yrs old asked if he could stroke Meg my dog. I ended up chatting to him and he told me that he was living with Foster parents. He proceeded to tell me about his life, and i was over whelmed with sadness for him. I think that boy was supposed to have crossed my path at that moment. To make me realise, that there are so many children out there that have tough beginnings. I realised that my sadness was not as bad, as his life at that moment..
Also in fairness to my dear friend, she rang me back to see if i was ok..and i also realise i do have a lovely friend. This is her life and not mine....but it still hurts for us two..
love astridxx


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## Charlies-Mum

Tuesdy 19th April

Have just got back from a looonnnngggg weekend at a health spa - absolute bliss. This was may second time but the last time (over a year ago) I was ttc so couldn't have half the treatments I wanted as they treat you as if you are already preggers if ttc.

Well i've been scrubbed, massaged, soaked, sprayed and teased and I feel great - especially with the box of choccies and bottle of bubly I took to have in my room    Currently turning brown from the st tropez (sp?)  tan I had this morning and enjoying life.

Only donw side was that there were 7 (seven I kid you not) heavily pregnant women staying the weekend.  Last night at dinner I was on a shared table and a lady came to join us. before she even said hello it was "my name in xxxx, and I've just found out I'm 9 weeks pregant". Wht can you do.... I smiled sweetly and skipped desert - thankfully the begian choccies helped.

Anyway I've decided That I am going to enjoy life and start treating myself big styleeeee! Hope the bank manager can cope with it 

Take care
Deb


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## flipper

Sod the bank manager Deb, if one of the other posts is correct you've got roughly £190k to pamper yourself with over the next 18 years.  Go for it!


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## Dydie

I have finally got the courage to tell dh that I have found a lump on my boobie and his pestering has made me book an appointment at the gp's  
next weeks the earliest they have so i will let you know how it goes
Dydie xx


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## overthemoon.com

Wednesday 19th March 2006

Today I decided to bite the bullett & call my local PCT to see if they can advise me if IVF would be availible to me through the NHS. Since Feb 2004, when they announced 3 cycles would be granted to all infertile couples, I have visited my GP 4 times to enquire about this & everytime they have said they didnt think soi, would look into it for me & I never heard anything since.

So, I contacted The Commissioning and Performance Manager from Vale of Aylesbury PCT. initially called her to find an email contact address as I was at work & didnt want my colleagues to have to hear it all. basically it was a waste of time & she said to me I would have to visit my GP, for him then to contact her & then liase with the GP with the conclusion.

It feels like Im being pushed from pillar to post with this, and never get anywhere! Also, being single at the moment, would this affect my chances of IVF funded by NHS ? (do they take this into account when the final decision is made ) if i did go ahead with the IVF I would obviously need a sperm donor..

so confused.... I am aware that there is certain criteria.. whats the betting I dont qualify !  

thanks for reading x x x


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## overthemoon.com

Dydie said:


> I have finally got the courage to tell dh that I have found a lump on my boobie and his pestering has made me book an appointment at the gp's
> next weeks the earliest they have so i will let you know how it goes
> Dydie xx


Hope everything works out well for your GP visit..will be thinking of you x


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## Bangle21

Dydie,

I'm so sorry you're worrying about this now aswell.  This is all you need on top of everything else.  

I know lumps and bumps can be common after TX drugs.  I'm so glad your DH has been really supportive.

Keep us posted and we'll all be thinking of you.

Big HUG
Gill xo


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## lucysmith

Dydie - good luck at the docs. Hopefully it's nothing to worry about. Have been reading through the posts and don't know how you stay sane with pg SD etc!!! Good to see you back on the forum though.

We had a bit of a health scare recently. Dh had an abnormal chest x-ray and has to go to lung clinic for another check up. Good thing is that he is down to smoking 2 cigarettes per day!! Then the docs really got hold of him and did a load more tests for blood pressure and cholesterol etc. About time, I reckon! Hopefully, he will get a clean bill of health though.


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## Dydie

Hi All .... noticed the diary had not been used for a while so I thought I would rescue it .... I had forgotten about that lump scare   anyway the GP said it was nothing to worry about, it's still there but has not changed so it must be OK ...

Anyway todays diary entry is a bit of a moan really .... I am getting really fed up with sd's attitude towards her baby and need to offload.

Baby is now 13 weeks old and the novelty has worn off for sd already, to make matters even worse she now has a new boyfriend she has been going out with him for almost three weeks and they are now talking about moving in together and getting engaged.  she is 18 and has now decided that she deserves to live her life so is constantly going out and dumping the baby with either me or her real mum (not that either of us really mind) but everyone is just so fed up with her stinking attitude.  she does nothing unless it suits her, she is only ever interested in the baby when she feels like playing happy families or when she is centre of attention all the rest of the time she lazes about the house in her dressing gown and moans about how tired she is .... she's not tired because of the baby mind you ... she's tired because she is either out late or on the bloody phone until the small hours of the morning.

All of the family are very concerned about her moving out with her BF because from the example she sets at home the baby would just not get looked after, she is lazy, unhygienic, self centred, short tempered and has not once had to care for the baby by herself in 13 weeks....we all try to avoid getting involved and leaving her to deal with everything but her attitude stinks and she would happily leave him in a soiled nappy to cry for an hour until she could be bothered to change him, if I don't make up his bottles then he would not get fed (or at least not when he should be fed) she does not even have the patience to let him finish his bottle and never winds him properly..

She is a lazy, ungrateful, self centred cow  

I just feel like shaking her and trying to make her realise just how lucky she is but it would only fall on deaf ears...

   

Dydie xxx


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## emcee

Eek - and double eek...

What a horrible situation for you sweetie... I am so sorry you are going through such gruelling times with your SD  

There was one thing that sprung to mind though, could there be a possibility that your SD may have some form of post natal depression? I'm no expert, but it just doesn't seem right the way she is behaving, well not only that, its not fair you are shouldering most of the looking after of little 'un either bless your kind and generous heart...

Just my humble opinion, I hope you don't mind me sharing with you
Take care hon, I'm so sorry you are going through this 

Lots of love
Emcee x


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## Bangle21

Dydie,

What a difficult, emotional nightmare.  I'm glad you came to us to offload.  You've been doing so well.

What can I say?  How does your DH feel?  Is he aware of how bad the situation has become?  The thing is in my experience aswell, the more you do, the more it could be taken for granted and often, the more that can be expected of you in the longer run.

Perhaps Emcee is right, maybe she could have PND?  Have her feelings towards her baby "changed" much since the pregnancy?  Did she appear "flippant" during the pregnancy or is it only since reality has set in?  As you say, she is very young and from what you say, (regarding her mother) perhaps she hasn't had much of a role model to aspire to herself?

Would you feel comfortable sitting her down and talking to her?  Maybe with your DH?  

I really don't know what to suggest huni, but just know that we are hear to listen if you need to offload.  You and your DH know your SD more than we do and know more about the situation so ultimately, unfortunately, only you can decide what to do next ..........    It just seems like such a sad, unfair situation huni and I really feel for you here.  Its like your nose is really being rubbed in it.

I hope tomorrow is a better day for you hun,

You know we are all here for you, 
Love & Hugs
Gill xo


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## Dydie

Thanks Emcee

SD definitely does not have PND although it would be nice if we could put that label on her sadly the only label we can place upon her is the same as its always been throughout her life "lazyitis"

We did give her the benefit of the doubt and I even discussed possible pnd with her gp (with her present) her gp did not think it was likely after asking few questions but arranged some counselling anyway .... she attended the 1st one and said it was a waste of time and she could not be bothered to go again.

No this attitude is the same as it's always been .... easy come easy go .... I want I get .... I can't be bothered so leave it up to someone else 

Dydie xxxxx[br]: 17/08/06, 19:03Hi Gill

Sorry I was posting at the same time as you 

she is just your typical "kevin" teenager, she is very difficult to talk to because she gets offended easily and feel sas though she is being attacked and blamed .... she is here most of the time now because her mum has tried to tell her a few home truths and she does not like it so she runs away .... this is no doubt why she wants to move in with her BF ... she is going to the council housing office tomorrow.

So we try to chat to her in a way that does not offend because at the end of the day we would rather amuse her than push her away because we would be left very worried about the welfare of the baby .... she takes everything for granted, and is a spoilt little cow (as much my fault as anyones I know).
for instance she now has 4 pucshchairs because she gets bored with them 
she spends her money on herself and then expects us to buy the nappies and formula etc etc etc this baby is costing me a fortune.

Dydie xxxxx


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## astrid

Hey Dydie
What a nightmare....it seems as if you have have looked at all the options...
I know this sounds awful, but maybe your SD has to find her own way and go and live with her boyfriend. However i get the sneaky feeling that she will be back very soon with her tail between her legs. If she does go and then returns, you and hubby need to work out some boundaries before she comes back into the house...
Now the baby is another matter altogether......i know it sounds terrible but there are other options, but they could be alittle drastic i.e social services, as you say G.P...
I know this sounds awful, but as cruel as it may sound she needs to find her own feet....again easier said than done, because i am not apart of your life...
i don't know how you do it...keep in there and think of you and hubby maybe its time to start building your own life up....
love astridxx


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## emcee

Oh Dydie

I am so sorry, this must be so frustrating and tormenting for you - how you have managed to keep your cool and be so wonderful with your SD and the little 'un is a testament to you and just shows how marvellous you are.

So she is a 'bolied sprat' then - argh - I wish I could advise you what to do or where to turn. This must be such a nightmare for you.

Got no wise words, I just want you to know I'm thinking of you. Sending you a massive hug!
Love,
Emcee x


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## pink panther

What a good idea! Will try and post tomorrow afternoon when I get up for my breakfast!
xxx


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## emcee

Dear Diary

What a week its been so far!

Sunday daytime had DH's DD for a few hours, he only gets to see her once every couple of weeks. Its been a learning curve for me having her around, we are still in that phase of getting to know each other. I can't bring myself to call her my SD because I don't feel I am qualified to as I hardly know the lass! We had a good day with a lot of laughs - but its really smacked home to me how crazily the universe works - why was I never able to give my DH a child? Questions to answers I'll never know in this life, thats for sure!    

Sunday evening I had a friend of mine come round and sit shouting and ranting about the unfairness of her life for almost an hour - I had a splitting headache by the time she left. Her language was atrocious and as I had all the windows open my neighbours had the benefit of hearing her 4 letter word tirade as well. Now this is getting to be a regular thing, she will turn up when I have other friends here and is as nice as pie, yet when its just me or me and DH she rants and raves... I wish I could be charitable and say I understand why she gets angry and upset, but I don't! I should have told her to eff off and get a life, I'm so stressed out at the moment though I'm not firing on all cylinders!

Monday - Whilst sat quietly minding my own bizz I get a knock on the door from the Jehovahs Witnesses - now I have nothing against anyones religion and their beliefs, don't get me wrong! But I find it very hard to be nasty to these people so we had a rather good 'arguement' about the world and what she thought of her interpretation of the bible and why do they feel the need to go door to door etc... and then they went merrily on their way with a flea in their ear    

Monday afternoon I had to go to hospital for my pre-op and I am absolutely dreading it. I don't 'do' anaesthetic very well and have had a few really bad experiences post op too    I am going to be in a lot of pain, I don't know how well I will be able to get about, I have to stay in for a few nights as well   and I am fervently hoping I don't get a visit from my outlaws - heaven forbid - because they only live a few miles from the hospital! YIKES!!!     DH is not allowed to take the day off to be with me on Friday - his work have told him he has to go in and make his shift up, another thing that is stressing me out - he is worried sick about me although hes not saying anything, I can tell, I know him too well! I'm worried about how he is going to cope having to do a full 8 hours on Friday because I could have my op at any time - if its in the afternoon like it was last time he will be so shattered, and I feel so awful for him!  

Tuesday - had a couple of phone calls from said pal who rants and raves - so I completely ignored the phone. Am stressed out enough without her nonsense thanks - she hasn't even said one word of encouragement to me for my approaching op... but I do feel liberated not answering the phone to her! LOL!  

xxx


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## irisheyes

Sorry emcee- my brain has gone to mush at the mo-what is you op for again? If i am not being nosey?? 

Tues 5th sept:

I have a cold and cant hear in one ear!! Plus af on top of that and feel ****!!!! I had 40 lazy sixth formers in study earlier- study thats a laugh- they have nothing to do yet and were so noisy! Mind you with my hearing problem they were probably even louder but I DONT CARE!!! i PLAN TO complain to their yearhead and turf them out next week!!!

Have family thing tonight for fils 80th.In their house.Made lovely lasagne but cant even taste it!!!!  Just want to go home to bed. Think i will for a while!

Called to see single-ish friend last night who had op on her foot last week. brought her some lasagne and dvds.i have known her since age 12 and she is funny sometimes- she just kicks you out when shes decided its time to go!!! Her new man foned and she wanted to fone him back . I would never do that but i suppose i am used to her ways by now. 

Thats all for now. Hope my week improves and that the pg niece from hell isnt there tonight-bad enough she is going on Sunday to the 60th ann party!!!


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## emcee

Hi Irisheyes

Poorly you - you don't think your cold has spread to an ear infection as well by any chance? 

I'm having an op on my knee. Cruciate ligament reconstruction - the same as most footballers or rugby players have - except I don't play either game lol! I've had one op already, and after this next one I need a 3rd op to bring my lower leg back in line - somehow its managed to twist off its axis   it could only happen to me!

Sending you get well soon hugs and hoping you don't have any more flack off your 6th formers! 

Hope you're feeling better soon
Love
Emcee x


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## Bangle21

Emcee - quite right huni - Thank God! for caller display!!!  It's the best thing we ever did too!!!  Hee-hee!  And don't you be feeling guilty, you give so much to everybody else - I'm glad you're finding the strength to "step back" from people that can be unhealthy to be around - like you say, it's so liberating!!  Go-girl!

Irish-Eyes  - sorry to hear you're still feeling down - and wicked b*tch turning up just to further twist the knife eh?  typical.

Well today, I'm trying to think up some funny captions to go alongside the photos of my wee brothers 30th birthday party coming up.  is actually quite nice reminiscing over all those old pics ....... although it does bring home the importance of family and all that ......... ANYWAY!!  The best one we've (well DH actually) come up with so far is, (now, it's a pic of me about 3 years old, and my bro who is about 1 year old - he is REALLY staring with HUGE big eyes .....) "Gillian, will ye PLEASE take your finger oot ma a*se!!!"    Sorry, know it's a bit rude but thought it would bring a chuckle or two ..... oops!!

Love to all,
gill xo


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## emcee

LMAO Gill! Fan-dabbie-dosy


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## astrid

Tuesday 5th 2006

Hello Girls
Firstly Emcee and Irisheyes i am sorry that things are abit tough at the moment...
Emcee - boy you sound as if this friend of yours (sorry) is only there for your ear...i think its great that you screened the call, because you having more pressing things to deal with at the moment..Also you are taking some charge of yourself...
Do you ever say to your hubby? 'i am only going to answer the phone if its so and so'..'If its anyone else then they will have to wait and bend someone elses ear'...atleast you get a peaceful nite!!! 
Concerning your friend can you start thinking about other things to do and make a kind excuse? and just see her when you can handle it??
Goodluck with your operation, i can see that you are very worried, as well as your DH....even though your hubby is worried, thats because he loves and cares for you so much.. 
I think its time that you started to take time for yourself and let the others deal with their own issues for the time being..
Irisheyes i hope that you do get to taste the lasagne very soon.....i would freak of i couldn't taste my food as i love it....i hope you are feeling better soon...

I had a mamogram done today, as there is a family history of breast cancer...i am so fortunate that i get a yearly routine scan done..
Flipping eck has anyone had it done before? i did not know my tit could bend in such places...and clamped down in the machine...Whilst the lady is saying hold on for a few minutes..The pain...ouch it hurts..
Atleast that is better than going through the other options...so i will stop moaning.. 

Take care...
love astridxx


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## emcee

OW Astrid... I haven't had one done but I have heard it hurts - your description brought tears to my eyes! My nellies aren't exactly huge but still, I like them the shape they are, and don't like the sound of them being squeezed flat - eeeek!

My pal called numerous times today and this evening and in the end I caved in and rang her... she was ok at first then started her usual moaning so I cut her loose ASAP! So in the future I will be screening all my calls and only picking up or phoning if I am strong enough to deal with her at the time!

Thanks for your support ladies, you gals really are the best!

Lots of love
Hobbly Hobbit! xxx


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## Maggie Mae

On the subject of telephones, we have to ask ourselves why whatever we are doing / enjoying / concentrating on should be interrupted just because a plastic-electric contraption in the corner of your living room makes a noise?! Me, I screen ALL the time!

Leoarna x


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