# Having second thoughts...



## silverlady (Sep 4, 2015)

I'm 40 (nearly 41) with v low AMH, normal FSH, oestradiol and LH. I got pregnant naturally twice last year. First ended in MMC at 12 weeks, the second had a really rare twinning complication unrelated to age - and there were no chromosome abnormalities, so that pregnancy would've been ok if it weren't for the twinning thing - gutted. As it was, I lost it at 14w. This year, been trying for 8 months and not a sniff of a BFP. We're registered with the ARGC and I'm due to start a monitoring cycle shortly. But I'm really having second thoughts about IVF. I know the ARGC don't test AMH but even so, I know what it is (was 1.8 in May so will prob be worse by now) and I know that means I'll probably respond poorly to the drugs. Given low ov reserve and my age combined, I'm wondering whether it's even worth trying. We have to fund it ourselves, which will mean a remortgage/credit cards. I'm desperate for my own baby but I also don't want to put us through months of trauma that cripples us financially and makes everything even worse than it already is. And we could carry on TTC naturally - DH's sperm is fine and I am still ovulating.
Sorry to sound really negative - probably PMS   Has anyone else had success at my age with similar hormone levels?


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## CrazyHorse (May 8, 2014)

Hi, silverlady, I'm very sorry for your losses.   There are a number of ladies on these boards who have gotten pregnant naturally and given birth to healthy babies with AMH as low as or lower than yours. There are also ladies who have gotten pregnant via IVF with AMH similar to yours. I am currently almost full-term pregnant via IVF, with an AMH of 1.8 when measured about a year and a half ago -- but it did take me 4 rounds of treatment to get here. If finances are a major concern, you may want to look at clinics abroad, which are significantly cheaper than typical UK treatment prices, and *vastly* cheaper than ARGC. My successful round of treatment in Czech Republic cost about £3K, including travel costs.

Here are a few threads that might be useful to you:
Has anyone gone ahead with IVF with low AMH: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=322589.0
Pregnant with a low AMH?: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=293447.0
40+ success stories: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=59854.0
Low AMH / High FSH Cycle Buddies: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=339566.0
Natural / mild / mini IVF chat thread: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=331471.0

Wishing you lots of luck with your decision.


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## silverlady (Sep 4, 2015)

Oh thank you CrazyHorse and congratulations on your pregnancy! That's wonderful to hear. My reasoning with choosing ARGC was simply that it had the best results - I thought if we're going to spend a lot of money anyway, we may as well spend some more and go there. I know a few women (older than me actually) who had success there. However, if we go ahead I may rethink and consider going abroad if the first cycle doesn't work.I sometimes feel having the AMH test cursed me - I went for it after I lost the last pregnancy and the result made me so anxious - and I haven't got pregnant ever since. I'm sure really it's just a coincidence but that was what made me start to feel very negative. Oddly my FSH was fine at 7. I always assumed they should go hand in hand so not sure why that is. 
Thanks for all those threads, I will have a look now! x


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## KLconfused (Jan 2, 2010)

silverlady, hi, 

Please don't read too much into AMH. It really is only one of many indicators and often doesn't correlate to what happens. I think theres a thread on here somewhere for low AMH. When I started on the IVF road my AMH was 2. I was told I may not respond to drugs. At the time I was just getting over being newly diagnosed with Crohns and my first bad bout of illness. I was told the AMH never really goes up just down. I had a round of IVF and responded well and got 4 perfect embryos and 1 baby. I then started TTC again for baby 2 and my AMH was retested. It was 17. The clinic said there was a problem with the test etc etc. Really it means nothing. Hi AMH people sometimes don't get babies and low AMH people do. 

I also recently went through 2 rounds of IVF at ARGC. I went there exactly for the same reasons as you. I wanted to go to the place with the highest chance of success  so that if I gave up I would feel I had done everything. Sadly I had a mc on the first cycle and a BFN on the 2nd. They have told me to keep going as I create good embryos and we do actually have 1 blast frozen there. Initially we thought my problems were immunes and that was another reason to go to ARGC. they no longer think that's the problem. My husbands sperm has always been awful and only suitable for ICSI. When I had a miscarriage last year it was from a private donor I did AI with without a clinic. ARGC were sure the reason that ended in mc was because I didn't have the immunes treatment. The second round at the ARGC we used donor sperm. So with the ARGC we crossed off bad sperm of husbands and immunes and still it didn't work. We spent £16k on the first round and £10k on the second. 
It was worth it in a way as I do feel we did everything with OE. We have now gone on to DE even though we haven't been advised we need to. The ARGC regime is so intense I couldn't do it 3 times in a year. I cant even face the FET at the moment. The cost is also so high and they really cant give you any idea until it starts. we were quoted £10k for the first cycle and it cost £16k.

At the time I loved the place and had so much confidence in them and they have a great reputation. But I found it difficult being in London every day for so long, the costs and how they handled the mc difficult to deal with. It was also hard seeing a different consultant every day and also it felt like a factory line to me as there are just so many people there everyday. 

It was worth it though. The money is hard to swallow but ive moved on to DE content I couldn't have done anything more with OE. ARGC obviously gets lots of pregnancies though. Ive a feeling their success is down to the sheer numbers of patients they treat. Im not convinced the daily blood tests were worth it or maybe I responded better to gonal f that the stimulant drugs they use (merino and fostimon) as I had better results at my first clinic where I did 2 cycles. 

I hope I haven't depressed you. ARGC gives a good chance of success (its not 50% as it says on their website its actually 35%, something to do with having 2 sites and the consultant will quote 35% to you I think). I really hope your one of the lucky ones.


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## silverlady (Sep 4, 2015)

Hello KLconfused
Really appreciate your response. No you haven't depressed me - ARGC told me results in my age group were 35%, I haven't seen 50% anywhere. I think 35% is pretty good at this age tbh! As it's done in percentages it shouldn't really be down to numbers, should it? Not sure! Have wondered whether the fact they put more embryos back skews things. To be honest, my big hope is that we don't end up needing IVF at all - will keep trying while we wait. I had my day 3 bloods done and weirdly my progesterone was quite high despite being on CD3 (and it was def a full AF). They couldn't explain why that was. All the other hormones they look at seem fine though. Still considering immunes. I was grateful they were very honest about that - said there was no real research to prove any of it but they have found it worked. They said it was up to me if I wanted to go down that route. So far, I'm reasonably impressed by the honesty and also the optimism - they made me feel better about my AMH by saying they see far worse and a lot of those women still get pregnant. How strange yours went up so much! I wish you lots of luck with your journey's next steps x


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## Furry (May 8, 2013)

Hi There,
So sorry for your losses, big hugs. It is a difficult decision and just to confuse you further, I've been to the ARGC twice in 2011 and 2014, the first time I was 41, FSH was 7 and all other hormones normal ( they didn't test my AMH back then) I was on the short protocol and produced 7 eggs which 6 were suitable for injection and had 3 blasts transferred, I was carrying twins but sadly lost one twin at 8 weeks, and then had my daughter 9 months later. The second time at aged 44 they DID test my AMH which was shockingly low at 0.03, which according to the lab ranges is undetectable, however I still produced 5 eggs and had two top grade day two embies transferred, sadly it was a BFN, so low AMH doesn't mean you won't respond...far from it, the ARGC just use the result to decide what protocol to put you on. I hope this helps, let me know if you've got any more questions. xxx


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## miamiamo (Aug 9, 2015)

just want to send you warm hugs and keep my fingers crossed


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## Blondie71 (Oct 26, 2011)

Another (much cheaper btw) and gaining in popularity for the older mum wishing to use own egg tx is mild or natural IVF there are a few clinics that do it and results look good so far!

I was 41 when I gave birth to my twins btw so I wouldn't discount anything yet x


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## Blondie71 (Oct 26, 2011)

ps I've heard mild IVF at serum is approx 3k all incl so considerably less than argc... just saying


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## silverlady (Sep 4, 2015)

Thanks so much all for your replies, sorry I haven't been on for a few weeks - was having a bit of a break from thinking about it all. 
Furry, that's interesting about your very low AMH and the fact you still produced that many eggs! ARGC haven't actually tested my AMH so I think they still don't do that as a matter of course - I just know from a previous test elsewhere that mine is low - 1.8 back in April, no doubt lower now. The hormones they DO test all seemed fine.
Blondie, thanks for your thoughts on natural/mild IVF - that is the other thing I would consider actually, for me it was between ARGC and Create, which I know is odd as they are opposite ends of the spectrum! However simply because ARGC have the best results, I decided to try that first. Going abroad is a bit tricky for various reasons but we'll see...
Update is I had immune testing done at ARGC and have high cytokines and have to take Humira - so I will be starting that soon, which means a bit of a delay to IVF. xx


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