# Low progesterone



## Sarapd

Hi
I've just had a BFN after our first attempt at IVF.  I was on a short protocol and everything went well apart from taking 4 days longer on stimulation than first anticipated but the consultant didn't seem concerned. Got 7 eggs, of which 6 fertilised. Three went onto blastocyst stage with 2 transferred and 1 frozen.  I started bleeding after 4 days which lasted for 2 and a half days and stopped once I started on progesterone injections. I've been googling low progesterone like mad and have convinced myself that is the problem and wondered if anyone else has advice or experience of low progesterone.  We don't have our follow up appointment until next week.
Thanks.
Sara.


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## Daydreamer88

Hi Sarapd...have you had your appointment yet? If so did you get any answers? Before you started bleeding were you on the pessaries rather than injections? 

I just had BFN, told myself would take a break from things but I am now wanting to know what went wrong, even though I know it is not always something that can be identified but I too am worried about not having enough progesterone, especially considering my af arrived 4 days before OTD? I was on the pessaries 400mg at night and I we paranoid from the start that I wasn't absorbing them!

Hope you have managed / will manage to get some answers.


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## Sarapd

Hi Daydreamer
I had my appointment today and my consultant said that she thought low progesterone was the cause of why it didn't work.  She has recommended progesterone injections and steroids straight after egg collection.  I was using pessaries 400mg twice a day and started bleeding 4 days after embryo transfer.  I upped the pessaries to 3 times a day for 2 days and then to injection in the morning and pessary at night, which did the trick. I've had problems absorbing vitamin B12 in the past so I wonder if there's a link. When I googled low progesterone I had every symptom. I'm taking starflower oil and flaxseed oil capsules, which may help.
We're hopefully having another cycle April/May but this time on the NHS - made it to the top of the list! My consultant is contacting the NHS clinic to let them know what happened with this cycle.
Have you had a follow up appointment yet? Let me know how you get on.
Good luck.
Sara. xx


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## Dollynrosie

Hello all of you!

Im so glad I just found this thread because I got my BFN  on Tuesday and have been asking myself exactly the same thing....

The treatment went exactly to plan, we had 9 eggs, 5 fertilised and all 5 made it to Blastocyst, 4 were top quality, 1 put back inside me and 3 frozen (one of which is already hatched).  However, 4 days before I was due to test, I started to spot brown, initially i really freaked out, but after reading up I felt reassured this wasnt anything to worry about.  My clinic do not do a blood test only a urine test but some years ago I had a pregnancy which didnt show up on doctors urine tests until i was 7 weeks pregnant, so I have NO faith in the urine tests.  I found a clinic where they would give me a private bloodtest after my clinic refused (this is the point where my stress levels went up massively, its not like I was asking them to do it free of charge and based on my history you would have thought they would have been ok about putting my mind at rest even if they thought I was being a bit neurotic).  I continued to take the progesterone pessaries for one more day while i had a blood test done, but before I got the result back that day, I got my period.  

I was always under the impression that Progesterone stopped your period.  Even in a natural cycle, your progesterone level drops estrogen rises and then you get your period.

The one thing i did notice the day i started spotting almost around the same time, I had a massive mood swing, I have stage 4 endometriosis so being overcome by estrogen is quite a normal feeling haha (but not nice for my other half).  But my point is that in the 2ww, I didnt think that estrogen was playing a major part of an IVF cycle, but then I dont know if we are meant to be producing  of our own progesterone or estrogen at all or if its purely from the drugs?  Does anyone know?

Sorry to ramble Im giving myself a headache!

xxxx


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## Daydreamer88

Hi Sarapd, I am so glad for you that you seem to have got some answers and it is good that they have a plan to help with next time!! Well done and congratulations on getting to the top of the NHS list, it will take a tiny bit of pressure off without the financial worry as well. Finger crossed for you that the injections and steriods will mean the next cycle is the one for you 
I haven't had our follow up yet, it is supposed to be on 6th March but I have pulled a few strings and will hopefully be seeing my consultant next week, I have to phone on Monday for an appointment. I will be asking about the progesterone for definate though so I will let you know what he says  xx

Dollynrosie  I didn't think you could bleed when on the progesterone, I asked the question on one of the other threads and the answer is that it can happen, although I definately think that is something you bring up at your failed cycle review as I think it could well mean a lack of progesterone. As far as I am aware your body does not produce any of the hormones naturally as you take the down regulation drugs to stop your natural cycle and therefore suppress your natural hormones, this is why we need to take the progesterone. I have to say I did not trust the pessaries from the start so if you were on them I would definately mention it to see if they can change to injections for your next cycle. Hope you are feeling OK. xx

One thing other thing that has been on my mind is the fact that I had cramping right after the ET, it only turned to period pains (I knew due to my leg cramps that I always get) 4dp5dt. I have read (google!!  ) that if you have this cramping it can expell the embryo before it could have a chance to be implanted...I think I am googling _far_ to much but I wondered it either of you had experienced this?

xx


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## Sarapd

Hi Both

Daydreamer - I'm glad you've managed to get your appointment brought forward - the worst thing is having all these questions whizzing round your brain and only having the internet to answer them.  I did have cramps after my ET but I'd convinced myself they were implantation pains.  I don't really suffer from pain when I have my AF so that's why I didn't really associate them with that.  My consultant told me that they don't really like bleeding early on in the cycle because it can be a sign that the progesterone has dropped, which happened with me.  Although some women do bleed and go onto have BFPs.  Everyone is different and there isn't a one size fits all.  The fact that my bleeding stopped when they upped the progesterone shows that it was a drop apparently.

Dollynrosie - Welcome!  So sorry to hear about your BFN.  I was also taking oestrogen tablets throughout the 2WW so it obviously does have a role to play and I think Daydreamer is right that our hormones have been suppressed so we have to get them artifically.  Definitely ask about either upping the progesterone pessaries or getting the injections if you decide to go for another cycle.  

Sorry I don't have any definitive answers for you - when I googled it when I was bleeding I could find very little about low progesterone in IVF so I'm not sure how common it is.

Let's keep in touch and see if we can get some answers.

Good luck!

Sara. xx


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## Dollynrosie

Hello Sara and Daydreamer

Thank you for your replies. I feel better that I'm not the only one thinking this.  I have my follow up appt on 19th March.  We dont have a meeting with the consultant it's with one of the nurses.  I feel a bit anxious because although the majority of the nurses at my clinic are lovely there are a couple that I find really unhelpful and refuse to b open to the fact that not everyone is the same.  Put it this way if I say about the progesterone I know if I get one of those nurses then it will be shrugged off and me being made to feel neurotic.  Luckily though I wouldn't be due to start a FET cycle until a few weeks later so I will ask to see consultant if they ignore my concerns.  I am lucky enough to have got funding and although they say you are treated no differently regardless of whether you are private or nhs, I do think if we were paying, they would be a little more helpful although I could be wrong.

I too had cramping leading up to egg collection and it has only just started to subside, I had cramping during the 2 week wait.  It is so ddifficult not to Google everything but like you say soooo many questions whizzing around in your head.

Anyway I'm going to sign off now hope u all have a good weekend n speak soon xxxx


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## Dollynrosie

Just re read my post dont mean to sound like a whinge bag about nurses lol but you know when you just want someone to listen! Xxxx


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## fififi

Hi there, just come across this thread and thought I'd add another option for you.

On my last cycle back in Oct (3rd in 18 month period) I started spotting then bled from about 4 days after 5 day ET. This hadn't happened to me before so consultant felt that in my situation it was unlikely to be due to progesterone absorption - plus the pessaries contain more than double level needed. I was told it could be due to polyps so recommended a hysteroscopy. I finally had the hysteroscopy this week & indeed had several polyps that were removed. Until my post op follow up I won't know for sure if they do now think that was the cause of early bleed but that was the impression I was given so might be worth others questioning when you have your review.

I too have endo and got cramping fairly soon after ET which equally causes me worry but have been told that the early bleed wouldn't be due to that. However implantation may have been affected. In my case I also had laparoscopy this week in order to maximise my chances at final IVF attempt sometime in next 6 months so long as we can get money together.

Best of luck to all of you and I hope the changes your clinics make lead to a positive difference that gets you grinning very soon x

PS dollienrosie - don't think you we're being winge bag just sound frustrated to me ... It's hard enough going through IVF but when things don't seem right it's even worse when nurses/doctors don't seem to have time or interest to look further into our concerns


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## Sarapd

Hi Fififi
I actually had a hysteroscopy in September to remove polyps so I think it's unlikely to be the cause for me. It's strange that your polyps weren't picked up beforehand when you had your scans because my consultant looked for anything unusual and that's where my polyp was picked up.

Thanks for the suggestion though - worth looking into all options.

Dollynrosie - you're not whinging.  You have every right to ask any question you want and for it to be taken seriously. 

Good luck to both.

Sara. xx


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## fififi

Sarapd - whilst frustrating you weren't able to make changes for your previous cycle it's good news that your clinic have measures in place to make changes for your next cycle. Hopefully those injections will be the difference you need.

I'm sure low progesterone is more likely cause of early bleed for many people but thought I'd mention the polyps as that's possible cause in my case. Though I am going to ask clinic if I can have progesterone injections next time too just in case that's factor as well.


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## Sarapd

Thanks Fififi.  One thing that my consultant said and that I've read is that although IVF treatment has improved vastly the one thing that they haven't worked out is why implantation works in some people and not others. Once they've got that sorted then they've got it cracked!  And it doesn't help that everyone is different and some doctrs think one thing and others think something else!

You can never have too much progesterone apparently so there's no harm with the injections.  Just a word of warning with them though - they are quite painful.  I was ok for the first few days but then where I had the injections was really sore - and still is!  But I think there's plenty of advice on here about how to numb the arwa before and afterwards so worth looking at that.

Hope all goes well with your next cycle.

Sara. xx


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## Dollynrosie

Hello to you all

Fififi - I never even thought of polyps to be honest and I dont really know much about them, so that looks like my next topic for Mr Google lol...   Fingers and toes crossed very tightly that your laparoscopy and removal of them, will bring you your little bundle 

Sara - I was also told the same thing re IVF and that they cant exactly determine why implantation doesnt happen.  They just told me that eventhough the embryo can be perfect, they cant tell if there are any chromosomal abnormalities etc....

One thing which I do remember also, is that when i was getting the spotting it was worse first thing in the morning before the first pessary and then it would fade out pretty quickly and then start to come back again after a few hours, so I just have a feeling its the progesterone....

From what Ive read it seems that the progesterone pessaries are not detectable with a bloodtest to check levels, you can only tell by bloodtest if the progesterone is taken via injection, have any of you heard of that, im not sure how true that is.  Ive heard that the injections are painful too, but if they let me do them, I think I will just have to grit my teeth, because I would feel happier knowing that I can at least go and have a bloodtest to check the levels are high enough.  Its that whole not knowing thing that I find hardest.....

I promised myself that these couple of months between treatment was going to be an IVF free zone - well that lasted all of about 24 hrs lol.....

Hope you are all ok...
Vicki xxxx


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## Daydreamer88

Dollynrosie....I am exactly the same as you - told myself I would have a break completely until our next cycle and I have done nothing but google and tell my DH all the things I have read about   

I too would grit my teeth with the injections if it helped! At the start of all this I was the biggest needle phobic, actually I still am...at my nurse consultation for the 2nd cycle I had to had more bloods done and I fainted    Not sure how I would cope with the progesterone injections in my bum but it's got to be better than this nto knowing like you said!!

AFM - I have manged to get my failed cycle review moved forward to this week so I will post and let you know what is said about the progesterone levels! I have made a list of questions to ask, I am abit scared they will think I am nuts as soon as I walk in, have any of you done the same?

x


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## Dollynrosie

Hi Daydreamer

I think you have done really well with the needles, I have a couple of friends that are needle phobic and there is no way you would get them near needles, although they just about managed it when they had their babies, but it was a case of not having a choice lol....

For me I reckon the injections in the bum will not be so bad, as I have lots of wobbly stuff to stab  

I reckon the list is a good idea.... Im going to do the same!  I did a list with my initial consultation before I started the IVF and the consultant was really good and answered my questions, however, my next appt is with the nurses and from what they have said over the phone, its literally just to tell us what happens during a frozen cycle.  Like Ive said before, majority of our nurses are really lovely, but there are a couple that drive me mad and make me feel like Im ...  I need to get my assertive head on when I go in there!

I was contemplating emailing someone that would be able to pass my email on to my Consultant and see if I can get answers that way, do you think that would antagonise them because I also dont want to do that?

xxxx


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## Mooncat

Hi ladies, I’m actually mid cycle but this thread caught my eye. I had my first IVF in November which resulted in BFN. We were fortunate enough to have frosties and I’m now doing FET (no funding at all where we live, so all self funded, but at least it means less waiting…)

Last time, I started bleeding 4 days before OTD whilst still on progesterone pessaries. I was taking one at bedtime. Like you guys, I suspected low progesterone, not absorbing properly, dose not high enough etc. I asked about this at my follow up, and again at FET consultation. Consultant assured me progesterone would be absorbed, and told me injections are horrible and he almost never recommends them. I remain unconvinced! 

Eventually he agreed on pessaries 3 times a day this cycle. I’m also going to try taking up the back (sorry if tmi), nurses suggestion, as I wasn’t happy with the front, and I know lots of other ladies on here do it that way. If I still bleed early, I’m definitely going to push for injections next time!

Not really sure what the point of this post is, guess I just wanted to share my experience, and let you know what I’d been recommended! Good luck to you all on this stressful and emotional journey xxx


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## Sarapd

Hi Mooncat
Sorry that your last cycle didn't work.  It is strange that some consultants believe in low progesterone when using pessaries and others don't.  My theory is that if the pessaries are always enough then why are alternatives such as the gel and injections offered?    
Fififi said that her consultant has said that her bleeding could be caused by a polyp.  Certainly worth an ask to your consultant.  
I'm having reflexology to help me relax and my therapist has suggested taking more magnesium and flax seed capsules to try and increase the progesterone naturally.  
When do you start your next cycle?  I start again at the end of April and am also going to be taking steroids as well as the progesterone injections.
Good luck!
Sara. xx


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## Dollynrosie

Hi Mooncat

Its sooooo frustrating isnt it when you are being told one thing by the consultant but gut feeling is telling you differently and also other ladies consultant's views....

I had mine up the back because front was just too messy and led to even more worry about it not absorbing....  I wish consultants etc could at least agree on the best method of progesterone absorption!

Sara  Do you mind me asking why you are on steroids on your next cycle, I know you have probably written it in one of your other posts, but I cant find it Is it to help with implantation?
xxxxx


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## nikkitay

Hi every one.

I have just had my 3rd failed cycle, for every cycle I have been on 800mg of progesterone pesseries  a day, 400 in the morning and 400 at night but in every cycle I have had af start about 3 days before test day, I asked my clinic about the progesterone maybe not being absorbed enough but they said that it was a very high dose and the pesseries were more than adequate.
I am going to have an FET when I have saved some more money but i´m worried that the same thing is going to happen again, should I insist on injections and how are the injections done?


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## Dollynrosie

Hello again Nikkitay 

I think injections can be a bit painful but I'm hoping my clinic will let me do them next cycle.  I know others might see this as being a bit of a control freak but I want to know I can at least get a bloodtest to find out my levels.  Apparently if you have pessaries there is no way of finding out your levels because they are not in your bloodstream.  I'm not a doctor so not sure how valid that little bit of info is I relied on Google for that! 

I have to say it really annoys me when the docs say we are on 'x' amount of progesterone and that is enough etc, because I'm assuming it's like anything else there is no guarantee how well it's absorbed.  I dont absorb iron very well regardless of whether I'm popping iron tablets or not various ppeople absorb things differently.  I get annoyed with the 'one size fits all' opinion.  Couples place an awful lot of emotion, time and money into fertility treatment and I do think doctors should treat as individuals after egg transfer in the same way they should when working out the down regging or stimm drugs.  Sorry thats my little rant over with (maybe I still have cranky hormones lingering)..,

Xxxxx


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## nikkitay

I agree with you dollynrosie

My clinic seem to be very much that 1 thing fits all, so far they haven't tailored anything to me and my situation, but they are thinking about it now cause I'm bringing down the statistics. Im going to England tomorrow cause we are looking at moving back there and my hubby has a job interview, so I have arranged an appointment with care clinic to see what their opinion is, but its a bit more expensive than in spain.


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## Sarapd

Hi Dollynrosie
It's really interesting that you've had problems with absorbing iron because I have too, and vitamin B12.  I wonder if there's a link.  
I agree that there shouldn't be a 'one size fits all' approach but I can understand why they do it on the first cycle because they don't really know what's going to happen but surely that should be an opportunity to tweak and individualise the treatment.
Fingers crossed that we'll all get there in the end - just a bit of a longer journey that we all expected.
Sara. xx


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## fififi

nikkitay - hope you get some answers at Care

sara, dollynrosie, mooncat & daydreamer - hopefully we'll all be able to tweak things at next cycle.
As sara says until you've had at least one cycle a clinic can't predict how you'll repond so needs to try "standard" proceedure cos this will be the one they've found works in most cases.
Sadly I think the luck element in every cycle is the hardest thing we have to battle with but if you feel like the clinic are trying to help you as an individual that makes a big difference.

AFM; I had laproscopy & hysteroscopy last week and indeed several polyps were removed so will question my consultant over that and whether he feels progesterone injections are still worth considering for next cycle. Follow up not until end of March though but will post update then

Hugs to all


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## Dollynrosie

Hello everyone

Yep I agree totally, first cycle is almost like a trial cycle, but I do think the clinics should tweak accordingly thereafter and it would be nice if we didnt have to throw suggestions at them and rather they throw suggestions at us!  Anyway Fingers, Toes and anything else that can be crossed, that we all see the good results of some tweaking very soon 

And yes the luck element is very hard, sometimes with the whole baby thing regardless of whether its natural, ivf or whatever, you feel like you have more chance of winning the lottery...

Sara - I know that low iron can cause problems with fertility, its one of the first things my acupuncturist mentioned.  Its to do with the red blood cells carrying the oxygen to the uterus, ovaries and eggs and because with a lack of iron you lack red blood cells it can cause problems with implantation, poor egg quality and if you get past all of that, then it can stop the cells in the fetus dividing as they should which can lead to miscarriage....  Its all cheery isnt it.... I have to say the only iron tablets I seem to get on with and that do make a difference (the doctors ones dont) are the Seven Seas Iron, Vitamin D and Folic Acid tablet.  You should drink it with Vitamin C, so orange juice or something, as this helps the iron absorb better.  Apart from this one, EVERY single multivitamin I have ever taken, ranging from the cheap n cheerful ones to the expensive ones have a detrimental effect.  After a few days of taking them, I end up feeling very lethargic, I get a cold and generally feel rubbish.  I have brought this up with doctors but they dont seem to know why this is.  A nutritionist told my Mum that you can get something called Vitamin Fatigue, because they also have the same effect on her.  I brought some Zita West vitamins and i have found if I take one capsule rather than the recommended three, I feel ok on them, so thats what I do and I at least feel Im getting something.  The lady who sold them to me, said that it could be just one of the ingredients that doesnt agree, but unless you have testing done with each individual ingredient its going to be hard to narrow it down!

Anyway thats enough of me boring you all to death for today....

Take care xxxx


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## Dollynrosie

PS... Nikkitay - Good luck with the Care Clinic xxxx


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## Daydreamer88

Hi ladies,

Just popping on to let you know that I had my failed cycle consultation today and discussed progesterone with my consultant. He said that he wasn't concerned whatsoever as the dose is adaquate and he feels that I bled before OTD because they leave it so long for OTD that it is quite common. He said they give you double the dose for the FET which I will be having next. I definately trust him, however I am going to try and push for the injections when I have my nurse consultation and they are ordering the medication. I just think I would feel less paranoid (with a sore bum  ) if I knew it was getting into my body correctly  If they refuse I will have to put the pessaries up the back (which freaks me for some reason  ) as I was afraid of moving when up the front and after the first week I found them really hard to insert, not sure if anyone else had same problem? I will also insist on a blood test to check my levels on ET day! They are going to think I am a nutcase for next cycle!! 

sarapd...Thank you for mentioning the magnesium and flax seed capsules, I will def try this...anything is worth a go!! I now have a _huge_ shopping list for my next cycle! I will also be tring some alterative treatments this time round to help me relax  Have you started reflexology yet? If so how are you finding it?

As it happens I didn't need to get my list out as we covered everything just by having a conversation, though I would definately recommend to anyone to write a list down as you then have things in order in your mind and you bring them into conversation easier than if your mind was wizzing around with questions...also if you have a Dr who isn't as informative then you may need to get it out  The outcome was basically he felt that there was no reason why it didn't work...when we got to blast stage it was basically 50/50 chance whether it would work and we were in the unlucky 50%...no suprise there  Like you have all mentioned I don't think my clinic think out of the box really, they seem to think one size fits all...I think if our FET isn't successful we will start looking at somewhere else.

How is everyone doing?
x


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## Gemstone21

Hiya,

Sorry to hear about your BFN  

This has played on my mind a lot too! my situation is a little different though.

My DP and i are doing the partner to partner egg sharing scheme (me carrying DP egg)

On the day of DP ET i was told to take two pessaries a day (one at 8am and the other at 8pm). Two days after ET i was told to take three pessaries a day, 8am - 2pm and 8pm. OTD we got a BFP, but sadly two days later i started to spot. I phoned the clinic and they told me to go in and have a blood test to check my HCG and progesterone levels so i did. 

The nurse said my progesterone levels were low, and then asked how many pessaries i had been taking and for how long!? She then told me to take 4 a day (2 in the morning and 2 in the evening) and return in 48 hours for another blood test.

48 hours later my blood test result showed HSG had dropped from 79 to 29 and my progesterone levels had gone from 48.2 to 68. The nurse then dropped the bomb shell and told us i was going through a miscarriage.

We have our review next week, but its really playing on my mind - if i was on a higher dose of pessaries then would i have still had a miscarriage?

I have read online (Google is my own worst enemy lol) that if hormone levels are too low then a miscarriage will occur.

So this subject is the first thing i will mention in my review!

Try and stay positive for next time, i wish you all the best   x


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## Lomosso

Hi ladies,

I was on progesterone injections when I started to bleed after OTD, they did the trick in stopping the bleeding after a couple of days..... but they were quite painful - Next time I'll read up on how to make them pain free!!

Daydreamer: As for putting pessaries up the back, I dreaded this.... the thought absolutely revolted me, however the day of ET the nurse insisted that I do this.  It didn't feel wonderful, however I noticed that unlike putting it up the front there was no discharge and so I figured I was getting more progesterone, and after about a week I didn't find it a problem at all. 

Anyway, next time I am going to ask for injections from the beginning which I am dreading.....  i have worked out out it will be almost 170 injections, and at £10 ago extraordinarily expensive.

xxx


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## Sarapd

Hello to everyone

Daydreamer - I forgot to say that with the flax seeds, you only need a tablespoon full and you have to soak them in water overnight. I eat them with yoghurt because the texture is a bit strange.  I have started reflexology - it's lovely and really relaxes me. Also, I agree with Lomosso that putting the pessaries up the back is no problem at all.

Dlooynrosie - I am just the same as you with vitamins.  Trying to get ones that suit me is a nightmare but I'll try the Seven Seas ones.

Hope I haven't forgotten anyone.

Sara. xx


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## Daydreamer88

Hi ladies,

How is everyone getting on?

I am wondering if anyone here has had something similar or if I just sound totally crazy before I phone my clinic  

Since a few days after ET I have had tiny red dots appearing all over my skin, more each day. My clinic had no idea what this could be so I went to see my GP last week who thinks they are hormonal, as I mentioned the IVF and he thinks for definate they are not anything else, and to wait a menstrual cycle to see what happens before doing anything further but he basically said he doesn't really have a clue   So then last night I was looking in the mirror and realised my veins have become really visible at the top of my legs and into my stomach, I have never had this before and don't know exactly when over the past few weeks it has appeared, so I turned to Dr Google   Both of these point to estrogen dominance and one of the major causes of this is low progesterone as when progesterone levels are normal it helps to keep estrogen levels down.   And all of this obviously hinders implantation...

I am concerned as for my FET the clinic are planning to give me cyclogest pessaries again and they don't believe my progesterone levels could be low as the pessaries are adaquate but all the evidence (and bleeding before OTD) is making me think this could really be a possibility. I don't want to go through another BFN if it could be avoided by my clinic giving me the injections and I am not really comfortable transfering my embryos without this being looked into properly...

How am I going to get my clinic to listen to me?!!

Any advice is greatly appreciated...thanks lovelies  

xxx


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## Sarapd

Hi Daydreamer
I've not had any of the red dots or noticeable veins so can't offer any advice sorry.  I sometimes think that doctors put things down to hormones when they're not really sure what the problem is! 

Perhaps it's worth doing some research about low progesterone, printing it out and showing it to your clinic?  If pessaries do the job, then why are the injections used?  I think some clinics do blood tests to check progesterone levels - mine don't.  But again, could be worth an ask.

Good luck.  Let us know how you get on.

Sara. xx


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## fififi

Daydreamer - afraid I've not had that experience but can understand how frustrated you must feel being concerned about preogesterone and clinic not really listening.
I agree with Sarapd about taking some printed information with you and trying to speak to them before another cycle. It does seem crazy that if someone is willing to pay extra and go through additional pain with injections they won't prescribe them for you.

I'm having my post-op review next week so will ask then about progesterone issues for future cycles. I had several polyps removed so my consultant may just put my early bleed down to those but if he does still suggest progesterone injections then I'll let you know


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## Daydreamer88

Hi Sara,

Thank you for your reply  

You are right I think the GP maybe just latched on to the IVF as he didn't have a clue...it is so strange though I am covered in them, they are like blood spots, some are pin prick and some quite a bit larger, they are not raised or itchy...so strange   I will do as he said and wait for AF (which was due yesterday, how much were you out of sync after BFN? I am all over the place anyway so not sure what to expect!!) and if they haven't gone he wants to send me to a dermatologist!!

You are right, I will do a bit more research over the weekend as if there is a chance I would rather just go straight for injections (which I would HATE as I have a needle phobia but needs must) 

I think pessaries work for some people but everyone is different and you are right they wouldn't have injections if the pessaries worked for everyone. If I get the injections I will try and get my levels checked at work, I don't think the pessaries show up on a blood test as it goes straight to your uterus.

When do you start your next cycle?

xxx


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## Daydreamer88

Hi fififi,

Thank you for your kind reply  

It is a very strange...as Sara said maybe my GP had no idea what it was so put it down to hormones!!

Yes I am willing to go through injections if there is a possibility it would help and I really HATE injections, I have a real phobia and have even had to have hypnotherapy for it and my clinic know about my phobia as I fainted during a blood test with them a couple of months ago   I just don't want to have another BFN and feel like I could have done something to maybe change it.

Thank you both again for your lovely replies, I will take some information as you have advised. You have both made me feel like I am not being crazy and it is reasonable to explore this  

Good luck with your post-op review   I hope you get some answers and do let us know what they say

xxx


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## Tinky27

My progesterone levels over christmas were 0.9 and I have suffered with brittle hair, hair thinning and headaches as a consequence :-(

I hate being inbetween treatments because it makes me feel so ****, atleast on the treatment my body gets what it needs!!


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## Dollynrosie

Hello Ladies

I havent been logging on lately been trying to chill out on the whole thing and not constantly think about it, but its nor really worked lol...

Just wondered how everyone is getting on?

I had my appointment to discuss the FET cycle, I mentioned my concerns about progesterone and the nurse basically said the same as Daydreamers clinic, that the 2 pessaries Im on (or will be on) a day are more than adequate.  She also gave me the speech about how some clinics dont even prescribe progesterone after transfer??  Ive not come across anyone that hasnt been prescribed some kind of support whether its progesterone or hcg (think thats the alternative).    On a natural cycle I know the follicle releases the progesterone after the egg is released and she basically said that this happens with an IVF cycle, that once the eggs have been collected the follicles will still produce some progesterone, so its more than enough with the pessaries.  Admittedly this bit sounds credible.  However, this doesnt help me on a FET cycle, because obviously my ovaries are totally shut down, so I will have zero natural progesterone.  I now wish that I had kept pushing the point, I normally dont have a problem speaking my mind but I just feel so drained from it all and feeling like im banging my head up against a brick wall.

I think Im going to email the consultant direct, now I just have to try and get his direct email address, without it going through the nurses first and intervening lol.....

Speak soon and good luck to all of you that may have already started another cycle.
Lottsa love xxxx


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## Daydreamer88

Hi Dollynrosie,

Hope you are OK?

When are you due to start your FET?

I had my nurse consultation yesterday. I discussed all my concerns with the lovely nurse, she saw my red dots when I went for my failed cycle review and they have got much worse, she agreed this is a slight concern and asked the Dr about progesterone injections and they have added them to my prescription, in the meantime I have to go back to my GP just incase it is something else as they have got worse since AF rather than better but I can't seem to get an appointment!! I was very lucky that we saw a nurse we have seen a lot and get on very well with, she knows I am not that crazy and just want to eliminate any possibile causes for it not working. Do you have anyone understanding at your clinic you could speak to? If you feel this is a possibility then fight for it hun. I am not sure of your clinics point on the progesterone as like you say everything is shut down during IVF cycle and I think it is the fluid from follicles when released that gives progesterone but that wouldn't work in IVF cycle as during egg retrieval they drain the follicles, I think they might fill back up but they are not released...I may be wrong though!! 

Could you get in touch with the consultants secretary? It would probably be hard to contact the consultant direct and they may take a while to get back to you?

xxx


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## Daydreamer88

Tinky27 said:


> My progesterone levels over christmas were 0.9 and I have suffered with brittle hair, hair thinning and headaches as a consequence :-(
> 
> I hate being inbetween treatments because it makes me feel so poop, atleast on the treatment my body gets what it needs!!


Tinky hun are you on anything to help progesterone? I have read Vit B6 helps, just started taking them so not sure how effective yet but it's worth a try

xxx


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## Tinky27

I'm not on anything as we are inbetween treatments, I've just been taking pregnacare, cod liver oil, royal jelly and agnus castus.

I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with the doctors because they are reluctant to give me anything!!

My skin is awful and I now have 5 new painful cysts on my chin and cheeks, the tetracycline are rubbish!!! :-(


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## Tinky27

I also have these weird raised rashes that have appeared on the back of my hands, but I don't know what the cause of that could be?? They were bright red at first, but are now fading and look like pink bumps?

Another symptom of low progesterone maybe? 

The doctors don't seem to take it very seriously. I've had to push for all of my blood tests, which was a good job because had I not I wouldnt have known my progest levels were 0.9!

Is there nothing they can give me to help boost my levels

xx


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## Dollynrosie

Hi Daydreamer

Thats excellent that they are letting you have the injections aswell.  Good luck with the dots, hopefully it will sort itself out.  I did read online that rashes can be a side effect of progesterone!  Its all such a minefield.... Im surprised i havent turned completely grey lol 

I should start the down regging about 19th April, I pick up my treatment plan on tuesday.  Thats another thing, some clinics do completely natural FET cycles but my clinic still has quite a lot of meds involved, 2 weeks of buserlin, 2 weeks of estrogen tablets to thicken the womb up, then 2 weeks of progesterone.

Since my last post and your one, I fired off an email!!!!  I called the hospital and they gave me his private secretary's email address, so I emailed him via that.  I will let you know if I get a response.

There are a some really lovely nurses, but its always hit and miss who you get, also the nurses answer the phone so it can be difficult asking for a specific nurse, because whoever answers the phone will ask what the problem is and if you dont want to discuss it with them its awkward!!

Anyway, I better get on and do some work lol.... but will keep an eye on my emails and let you know if i get a reply!!!

Take care and speak later xxxx


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## Daydreamer88

Oh Tinky, bless you   The Doctors don't seem to take it seriously, I agree! Definately try Vit B6 and Vit B complex together even though you are not on any treatment, I have read Vit B6 helps and it works best taken with other B vits. I will research into what else is good and let you know xxx

Dollynrosie... I read that too which made me even more worried about it, just so so strange they only started during 2ww. I had lots of progesterone symptoms initially, my boobs hurt and were huge and then one day it all just stopped, I knew then that there was a problem. I know it is such a minefield, doesn't help that each clinic and dr has a different opinion on what's good and what's not... 

It seems like we will be cycling at the same time (if AF behaves!!) I have pretty much same plan as you too but I am having the provera injection, which is just 1 DR drug rather than daily...I don't know if my clinic do natural FET or if they just didn't mention it due to my periods being irregular and all over the place. Are yours the same? It seems so long for FET cycle as I was on short protocol for fresh, which did you do? I know what you mean about the nurses, most of ours are lovely and we know them but this particular one we have a really good relationship with and always ask to see her when we go. They probs think I am a bit of a diva (although I don't _really_ mind who I see as they are all lovely but I am just much more comfortable with this nurse). I hope they get back to you soon, don't take no for an answer just tell them you want to try something different, to ease your mind etc... let us know xxx


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## Tinky27

Hey,

I don't think I can take B6 plus B vitamins on top of the pregnacare conception though?? Or, would it be best to stop taking them and take specific vitamins?

xx


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## Daydreamer88

I am taking everything on top of pregnacare .... hope it's OK?? I just looked into and found - All the B vitamins are water soluble and are not stored in the body. If you have too much, you pass it out.

xxx


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## jblox78

Hi Ladies,

I too have been worried about low progesterone but my clinic won't hear me out - am currently on 2ww with our second NHS IVF cycle.  I had a consultation at Serum in Athens (just in case) and was advised that if we were to cycle with them they would offer me extra progesterone support due to my history with chlamydia which can apparently affect progesterone absorption.

I've read AngelBumps advice re supplements and she suggests that you can take up to 500mg of Vitamin B6 (along with B12) to help with prgesterone for a very short time period (e.g. 2ww or leading up to it) but not for a longer period as it can cause reversible nerve damage (apparently if you do this for too long you can lose feeling in your arms and legs but once you stop taking the supplements it goes back to normal...)

Hugs,

Jen xxx


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## Tinky27

I was told by my G.P and by the clinic to be very careful what you take with Pregnacare, as you could be doubling up on vitamins and obviously the pregnacare is selected amounts to be safe for pregnancy.

I just take pregnacare conception, cod liver oil, royal jelly, agnus castus.

Where did you hear cod liver oil isn't safe? Why's that?

x


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## Tinky27

Where is angelbumps advice?


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## jblox78

Hi Tinky,

Here it is:

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=226042.0

She also talks about cod liver oil - fish oil is good but it's best if it comes from the fish body and not the liver especially if you are taking high amounts due to the toxins...

Hope this helps,

Jen xx


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## Tinky27

Ok. Can someone please help me because i'm really really confused!!

I've just been back to see my G.P to discuss my progesterone blood results. He said they were 14.4 but the note from the lab said this shows low fertility and that is not consistent with ovulation?!!! However, over christmas my blood result was 0.9 and I was told it should be 10+ to show ovulation?!!

I don't understand why 14.4 is now low?!

What does it need to be to ovulate? The bloods were taken 7 days prior to my period starting.


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## Dollynrosie

Hello ladies

Tinky - have you had any luck finding out about the progesterone levels.  I know that depending on where you have the tests done, there are I think 2 different units of measure and if your tests were sent to different labs, that could be the reason.  It gets so frustrating and I know how you feel, because in the past when we were trying for a baby naturally, the same consultant on different occasions told me that a progesterone of 25 was normal and on a different occasion when it went up to 47 said it was ok, but the low end of normal?  

Daydreamer/Sara and everyone else - how you getting on?

I fired off the email regarding progesterone, it got forwarded on to somebody else (the Nurse Manager or something like that), which i really didnt want, I just wanted the consultant to deal with it, but whoever has received it, hasnt bothered to reply!  Not impressed.  Although the clinic says that NHS and private patients get treated exactly the same, Im not so sure.  If I was paying I would be very very hacked off.  Because Im NHS I do feel like Im less entitled to whinge to them, although I did a good job in my email (in a very nice way though) lol.... 

I have another appointment tomorrow to run through my treatment plan now I have had my period.  I will let you know if my email gets addressed in that appt.

Anyways Im off to pick up my fur baby from the vet   Im sure children are cheaper - well maybe not....
xxxx


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## Daydreamer88

Hi dollynrosie, 

Did you get a reply to your email? How did your appointment go Hun? You are most definitely not less entitled to whine as you are NHS, I work for the NHS and plenty of people raise legitimate issues like yours to me and I am glad they do. If they don't know you have concerns they can't address so you have done the right thing  

Aww poor fur baby, hope they are ok xxx


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## Dollynrosie

Hi Daydreamer

Thank you 

Touch wood fur baby Rosie is ok (£700 later thank gawd for a credit card and pet insurance - hopefully they cover it).

Well I had my appointment with one of the nice nurses and the consultant had left me a message in my file which we both tried hard to decipher, as he has typical doctors spider writing!  Basically he said that Progesterone isnt necessary on an IVF cycle and some clinics dont even prescribe it.  He said that they give it incase of multiple pregnancies because it has been shown to be beneficial and they keep you on it up until your first scan to see if its a multiple pregnancy and then if it is, you are kept on it and if its not you are taken off of it.  He did say that due to my history he would let me stay on the progesterone and progynova for a couple more weeks due to the fact that 14 years ago i had a pregnancy but it didnt show up on a pregnancy test until I was 7 weeks pregnant and that was doing the doctors alleged super sensitive tests!. I am going to do that and then if I get a negative test, I will wait a few more days and go and have a bloodtest done privately at a clinic not too far from me, because the clinic im at, will not do a blood test eventhough I offered to pay for it privately which really stressed me out last time round.  It costs £34 at the place i went last time, so not too bad and at least its peace of mind...

However, if your body is not producing any progesterone on a frozen cycle then that means a singleton would get no progesterone (if they stopped prescriibing it) so why does a multiple baby need it, because in my brain (although its a bit mushed at times) i would assume a singleton would need a certain amount and twins double the amount etc.  Maybe I just need to stop thinking and turning myself loopy 

When do you start your frozen cycle?  I start down regging again on 19th April so next Friday.  

Anyway, Im going to log off now hope you have a lovely weekend and make the most of the sunshine we are MEANT to be getting on Sunday wooohooooo.
xxxx


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## Daydreamer88

Hi Dollynrosie,

I am not sure about what your doctor says...if it wasn't needed then why would they give you it at all? If your body actually does produce it why wouldn't it produce more for a twin pregnancy? How strange!! Also how can your body actually produce it as the DR drugs make the pituitary gland shut down the whole reproductive system? I don't blame you for getting the blood test for peace of mind.

You need to have progesterone and estrogen given on a frozen cycle as neither will be present other wise  (in fresh the estrogen comes from the stimms) You need both in order to achieve and keep a pregnancy. Have they given you these?

We will most likely be cycling at the same time, my AF is due this Thurs so if it comes on time I will start DR this week. Are you having 1 DR injection or daily?

xxx


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## jblox78

Hi Dollynrosie,

I'd definitely question what your doc has said re progesterone not being needed - it definitely is needed as, if you were to conceive naturally, progesterone would start being produced by your body when the egg is released from the follicle however during IVF when all the follicles are being emptied by needle to collect the eggs, this prevents the body from doing the natural thing and producing all the progesterone that it needs...  I have read this and also had it explained to me by two consultants...  Most, if not all, of the ladies I've spoken to here on FF have been prescribed some form of progesterone support whilst going through IVF...

Hope this helps,

Jen xxx


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## Dollynrosie

Hi Daydreamer/Jen

You are both so right.  My clinic dont like to be questioned and when they are I just feel like they are trying to fob me off.  I am one of these people that needs to get to the bottom of WHY I need to do something or dont need to do something, I need to understand the process, because to be honest over the years I have lost all confidence in the medical system, which is why i now need IVF, as for 9 years my previous doctor made me feel like a neurotic female whne I told him things just werent right with the whole girly side of things.  I told him my hormones were crazy and he tried putting me on antidepressants, I said I wasnt depressed I know when its my hormones playing havoc.  Bloodtests came back indicating PCOS, the scan didnt really show anything so I went back and saw him and he said Id probably done the test on the wrong day, I told him i didnt and he got a bit stroppy and said well its just one of those things (making me feel like i should be grateful there isnt anything there, eventhough i knew it wasnt right).  I had all the bleeding inbetween periods, pains etc.  Eventually i went private when the whole baby thing wasnt working and it turned out I had Aggressive Stage 4 Endo and nasty ovarian cysts.  Anyway thats the longer version of why I need the ins and outs of it all lol....

Im actually going to go to my doctors (a different one from the one above!)after embryo transfer providing the thawing goes ok  and speak to them about the progesterone side of things, my doctor was quite shocked that I havent been put onto baby aspirin as a precaution aswell.  The clinic will only put you on it if you have had more than one miscarriage!  This was something else I questioned and was told that its not a good idea if its not necessary, which to a degree I agree with, believe it or not I dont like the idea of being dosed up on loads of medicine etc especially if its not necessary, but baby aspirin is given to people for so many different things and if its given to people with recurrent miscarriage as a precaution, it cant be that detrimental.  Whinge over - for now 

Daydreamer - if you are doing a frozen cycle, do you start on the day of your period because you do a short protocol?  I just wondered because I start injecting on Day 21 (this friday) and the whole thing lasts about 6 weeks.  I know this has all been spoken about before, but my brain is slightly fuzzy from all the info haha..

Hope you are all ok and speak to you soon.

lottsa love xxxx


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## Daydreamer88

Hi dollynrosie,

My clinic are the same hun, it's hard work isn't it?! They are so lovely and sweet all of them but they just don't seem to be open to anything other than the standard cycles and standard patients   Sounds a nightmare with your misdiagnosis, I bet you felt like you were going crazy!!! I did and I was misdiagnosed and ignored for 6 years, had various scans, tests, surgery etc but still didn't get anywhere until I had operation under my IVF consultant last year. I was even told by one GP when I was 17 that every girl that age has all these issues with periods...as if I didn't know anyone else my age and know that that wasn't true !!   I have got to the same stage as you now where I need to know why I am doing something or why I am not...I guess you are right, it is a lack of trust after so long isn't it? I have had a few issues since ET on my last cycle with red dots all over my skin (I think I posted about it here?) they are still there, getting more all the time. My clinic keep saying see GP, GP says see clinic about it...I am getting nowhere   I saw GP this morning and he said he would like me to wait until after FET and let him know whats what then and he will send me to a dermatologist, only thing he is sure of is that is that it is related to the IVF drugs! Hoping it is not an indicator that something isn't right meaning it won't work?

You are doing the right thing seeing someone about it after transfer (im scared of thawing too-terrified actually!!!) I am thinking of getting my levels checked through a blood test at work? Luckily I work in a hospital so will be easier to organise this myself...

I was thinking the same about baby aspirin as I read somewhere on here that if you have heavy, clotting periods then you should have it, but I am not sure?

I am starting on the first day of my period, mine lasts 6 weeks too. I start on first day because my cycles are so irregular! How are you feeling about it all? Hoping my period comes tomorrow as it should (never happens  ) and then I will have the prostap injection which lasts 4 weeks. They have estimated ET for around 18th May, have you been given an idea yet?

I am a bit worried as when I saw GP this morning I have a chest infection, he has given antibiotics and clinic says it should be fine. Hoping it goes very soon!!!

xxx


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## Mooncat

Hi Dollynrosie,

My experience is quite similar to yours - triple factors of pain, mood problems, failing to conceive. Fobbed off for years by GP, prescribed antidepressants (which I didn't take because I knew that wasn't the problem), minimal basic tests, told by NHS gynnae I was fine (probably my lowest point)... decided to go for private lap - had extensive endo, a large polyp, damaged tubes, PCOS - really quite far from 'fine'! So I agree about wanting to know why I'm being told what I'm being told. 

Last IVF follow up, consultant got a bit snappy, obviously felt I was interrogating too much. I have FET follow up this afternoon, and I expect it will be the same. I'll try to question in the right way and not get his back up, but at the end of the day we're fully private as no IVF funding where I live either, so we should be given all the options and a full explanation (not that everyone shouldn't, whether NHS funded or not, but you know what I mean...)

Good luck wherever you are in your cycle, hope this is the one


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