# Poor Responder........part 45



## Rachel (Mar 10, 2004)

New home ladies  

Lots of love and luck to you all


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Thank you Rachel

Morning Pops

Emma-I'll book my flight now


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## Button76 (Dec 30, 2006)

Morning everyone

Just posting with my fertilisation phone call news 4 out of the IVF and 5 out of the ICSI have made it so 9 in total - I know there is a long way to go yet but very pleased for now!

Hi Ally - I don't think I can say any more than what the other girls have said re your follies.  I had more at my second scan that first so fingers crossed this may be the same for you.  I went to the Lister for an open evening but we chose UCH in the end as DH thought they were trying to sell to us rather than provide a service.  At least some of the other girls have had the same experience of Marie Wren.  This is a very hard emotional process for anyone and she doesn't sound like she has handled it very well.    Eat loads of Protein and keep yourself nice and warm and I hope things look a bit more positive for you tomorrow.   

Steph - Congratulations on your TV appearance!  I have a really awful sqeaky voice when I listen to myself back.  I don't know how anyone puts up with listening to me!!

Emmachoc - Have fun at Pilates.  I'm sure at 25 weeks it can't all be Heroes.  I was a chocolate eating pig yesterday.  Had to reward myself after my EC - any excuse!!!

Popsi - Sorry to hear you are having such a poo-ey time down regging.  You will be on to stims before you know it.  

Beachgirl - You sure do get up early to clean your bathroom  I hate cleaning the bathroom more than any other room in the house.

Miranda - Bob may as well come out with this rubbish weather.  Think it is supposed to be OK today but then rubbish again.  Where the hell is summer?? 

Kazzie - Really sorry to read your news.  I hope you are gfeeling a little bit better today and good luck with your next go.  

Laura and Liljen - Good Luck with your scans today.

 to anyone I've missed.

Going to have a nice lazy day today.  Could probably have gone into work but I told them I was going to be off until at least the end of next week after ET so am just going to make the most of it!

Have a good day everyone 

Button xxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Button-woohoo, that's excellent, enjoy having a lazy day at home.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Wow Button - that's amazing! NINE? Congratulations!

Beach - is that place clean yet?

Andrea - I did feel a bit periody this morning! But I went back to bed in the end and now I don't? Bah.

Emma - I should think so too! We've been waiting months for pictures!    

Morning Rachel!


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Mir- was wondering what had happened to you.....thought Bob was makign an appearance.


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## Pin (Apr 18, 2006)

Hi Ladies

Just wanted to wish laura good luck for today   

Hi to everyone else - been really busy at mo so not had chance to logon.

Mir - nice piccy   not long to go now eh - hopefully

Pin x


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

just a quickie from me!

Button - you must be thrilled. congrats on your 9 embies!

I had my scan today.  I have "at least" 11 good-sized follies, which I am taking to mean I have 11 but some smaller ones may possibly catch up.  I am pleased!


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## Button76 (Dec 30, 2006)

Yay - well done Liljen, good work!!

xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Well done you LilJen! Cripes - all these eggs rolling about... You're all so productive!

So when do you trigger?

Morning Pin! I'm hoping he comes soon, even though people keep saying to 'enjoy the peace' etc etc yadda yadda. I keep saying to themm, don't you remember how frustrating and sleepless the last few weeks were? Then they shamefacedly admit to remembering all the bladder problems etc.  

Beach - no, sadly! The sun keeps going in and out, so I'll take the doggies out in a mo. See if I can't shake him loose.


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Well done LittleJenny & Button that is great news!

Miranda - have you been trying any of those old wives tales? Curry etc??

All - thanks for your support re my follies - I am trying to stay positive but I have a feeling that when she said 'potential follies' she meant that these would be there without the drugs - so therefore I may not be responding at all!

I have sent an email to Dr Thum asking his advice, these were my questions: 

Can we increase the doseage to 600? 
Would a different drug do better?
Could I be responding slowly – could I stim for longer?  
It seems very early to cancel? 
If we stop the drugs could I ovulate naturally – is there any way of monitoring me to see when ovulation occurs so that I can try and not lose the possible egg? 
Could I have my FSH monitored on a monthly basis and try again if my fsh level comes down to a decent level?
What are your feelings on the use of DHEA? Could this be helpful to me?
If I tried to conceive naturally, could my ovulation be monitored as I never know when it is likely to occur as my cycle is so irregular.

I really want his input and not Marie Wrens, after all it was his energetic positive outlook that made me go with the lister in the first place. I doubt if i had met Marie Wren before treatment I would have felt so optimistic!! I have asked if he may be around on Friday to talk to me, worth a try. 

Ally x


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

LJ -well done xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Good stuff Ally - take control of your tx, after all you're the one spending the cash.

Ignore Marie - she does seem very negative. After four days the follies WILL be small - you could stim for up to 18 days!

Maybe ask to put a bit of Gonal F into the mix - that seemed to help me.


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Ah thanks Miranda - what will we do when you are busy caring for a newborn!! 

Just found out Dr Thum is away until tues and have asked for another Dr to look at my email (lets hope its not the dreaded MW!!!!) 

I am off work today, about to make a protein rich breakfast of Bacon and eggs (organic of course) - have acupuncture at 6 so hopefully that will help my state of mind if nothing else!

A x


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## minttuw (Jan 22, 2007)

Can I join you ladies? 

I'm also a poor responder (prob. because of my age). I'm on my 3rd IVF attempt and today is day 7 of stimming. Just had a scan and my lining is a bit thin (5.9mm) and I've only got 4 ok sized (10mm) follicles (+3 small ones). And I'm on the highest dose of Puregon/Merional combination (600 in total). 

I was just reading the previous Poor Responder thread and 'Nixf01' had written that she was doing "yoga, concentrating on the poses that increase bloodflow to the pelvic region". If you are around Nixf01 or if someone else knows, could you please tell me which poses you mean? I would like to try.

Thanks and good luck to everyone!
Minttu


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

quick hi and well done LJ!


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Re yoga - yes I would be really interested to know too!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have been doing yoga (until a couple of weeks ago, have a sore back at the mo so not doing it) and I know that the inverted poses (such as shoulder stands etc) are good for hormone regulation but dont know about blood flow to the pelvic area...

v interested to know!

Ally x


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## swoo (Apr 22, 2008)

Hi all  

Just keeping the thread as at work, and just reading back a few pages wanted to say:

Laura - good luck for today  
Mira - surely can't be long now!!!
LJ - well done on your follies
Steph - wow a film star!! 
Ally - I had 4 follies after 1 week of stimming and 6 in total after almost 3 weeks, mine were very slow growing, but got 2 fertilised and now 9 week pregnant.  I do hope all goes well for you   and you can get the anwers from the Dr.
Beach - how are things  

Hi to everyone else  

Swoox


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi Ally

nice one on the list of questions, you're quite right, like Mira says, it's your money and your body so you have the right to ask as many questions as you like.

I think that stimming a bit longer, with an additional daily jab of Orgalutran (equivalent of cetrotide) to stop me from ovulating too early, is what helped me to get such a good result, the most eggs ever collected for me in the past is 9 and then they weren't even all mature so I really do think it's far too soon to be thinking about cancelling this cycle.

Once again I'd like to stress that 4 embies on day 4 is NOT a bad result, you've only been taking this stuff for a few days and I really do think they're out of order filling your head with such negativity at such an early stage.  You should have a much better idea of your response on the second scan tomorrow and as I said previously, those few days could make all the difference.

And, speaking for myself, and this point of view in no way represents the views of fertility friends, I really do think that Ms Wren badly needs to take some kind of communication skills course or something, there's clearly something very wrong with the way that she addresses her patients....


LJ - nice one on the scan hon, looking very positive!

Great news on the fertilisation Button, I wish my doc would at least consider ICSI it's so frustrating that he's so stubborn about it and it's compromising our fertility rates!

Mira - ain't you had that pickney yet?!  COME ON BOB!  Your mama's bored and clearly needs something to occupy her time, so if you could just put in an appearance that should keep her busy.... 

Well just spoke to the doc, no surprises re embryo development unfortunately.  Of our 6 embies, 3 of them are over 50% fragmented so they probably won't go anywhere. He's a bugger for giving out any information so I don't even know how many cells they are, but given the quality it's probably irrelevant.

I finally managed to squeeze out of him that the other 3 are less than 25% fragmented and are 2,3 and 4 cells each.  If they continue to develop he'll put all 3 back tomorrow.  Have to admit to being a bit disappointed even though it's not a great shock.  Still it only takes one as we all know, so fingers crossed at least one of those 3 will be good to go.  I also have to admit that I'm again asking myself questions about the skills of the embryologists at the clinic. How the hell can you go from 15 eggs to just 3 viable embies?  Something ain't right there, surely and it can't all be down to egg quality can it?

Anyway that's the news from Frogland today, hope you're all well

xxx

Oops took so long to finish typing this, 5 new posts!!!  I'm just about to eat lunch but I'll come back on in a bit with the deets re: yoga

Love to all!

xxx


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Swoo - thanks for your positive story - good luck with your pregnancy!! 

Nix - thanks love!! I am loving your interpretation of the lovely MW!! I am sorry you are disappointed about the number of viable embies but hey 3 that is good, you never know you could be lucky!!! You could get more than you bargained for!! 

As my consultant is away until Tues i have pretty much decided that i am going to continue till then regardless of what I am told tomorrow, I just think i would prefer bad news from him than some random other dr (or worse case scenario Marie Wren!!), that will be 10 days stimming - crazy 

Just to clarify - I am a bit confused, my scan showed 4 possible follies, do some other people see no possible follies?

Enjoy your lunch - look forward to hearing about the yoga!

Ally x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Ach, Nix - it's great that you got all those eggs as it's left you room to manoevre. Sod the fragmentation - they can't really tell so well at this stage I don't think - look at Laura's case!
Will they put three back?

Minttu - that sounds like a decent amount of follies! have they got you on oestrogen for your lining?

Ally - yes, it's possible to get no response at all - we've had a few cases on this thread. So yeah, ignore those negative people!


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Sorry guys - probably driving you crazy now - roll on tomorrow morning - the worst bit is the waiting!! 

I think the reason i keep questioning things is because I dont want to get my hopes up too much and also because 4 possible follicles is the same as the 4 antral follicles seen on my resting ovaries back in March.

I can see why they say its best to stay working - i am at home today as yesterday knocked me for 6 and I am thinking about things too much x

Roll on the day that I can stop obsessing about my possible fertility!!

xx


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## alegria (Dec 10, 2007)

Hello Team PR  

Just a quick update from me as I've been taking a little break from the boards while stimming this time as I didn't want to be reading some of the stories that would for sure get me even more anxious. It'll take me a while till I read back and catch up with everyone's news.

Unfortunately the new protocol for my 2nd tx (Clomid / Menopur 300 / Cetrotide) hasn't worked as well as I hoped for. Had my final scan yesterday (day 12) and got only 2 follies (22mm & 21mm) that are ready to pop (very quick considering that last time I was on stimms on higher dose for 18 days!). But the major issue now is not even the poor response but my lining, only 4.5mm, really rubbish. Last cycle my lining was already 11mm by EC…. I think this time it was the clomid which is meant to give you more and better eggs but is also known to cause a thinner lining in some cases…. So, I spoke to my consultant at the Lister (the lovely Jaya Parich) and, if my lining was better, we could still go ahead with EC hoping to retrieve 2 good eggs from the follies for IVF but, as it stands, I’ve been advised that’s not worth going through all the upheaval and expense of it with such a thin lining and only 2 follies (specially as last time I had 3 and in the end only 1 egg was retrieved at ec as the other 2 follies were empty). So we're converting it to IUI and I'm ok with that. I've been given estrogen to thicken up my lining and will also be having the cyclogest to support the lutheal phase. I know that our chances are now even slimmer but hey, there’s still a chance and we’ll hold on tight to that for the time being. Fingers crossed and roll on the 2ww madness      

A big   to you all,
Alegria


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Nixf01 said:


> I finally managed to squeeze out of him that the other 3 are less than 25% fragmented and are 2,3 and 4 cells each. If they continue to develop he'll put all 3 back tomorrow. Have to admit to being a bit disappointed even though it's not a great shock. Still it only takes one as we all know, so fingers crossed at least one of those 3 will be good to go. I also have to admit that I'm again asking myself questions about the skills of the embryologists at the clinic. *How the hell can you go from 15 eggs to just 3 viable embies?* Something ain't right there, surely and it can't all be down to egg quality can it?


Hi hun

Long time no chat (not even on ** !)

I'm keeping everything crossed for you this time...I so hope it's the one  

I know what you mean about eggs to embies......with our last cycle we got 30 eggs but only 14 embies fertilised normally....and by day 5 we had 4 blastocysts...2 good ones put back and the remaining 2 taken to day 6 but weren't good enough to freeze.....most of our other embies made it to day 4 morula stage but that was it........it seems whilst my eggs "look" healthy and good, they now think there may be some chromosonal element that's causing problems, partly due to my age but they're still unsure (as the eggs that fertilised did so abnormally ie had 2 sperm and 3 nuclei can't remember exactly how many but out of the 16 other fertilised it was a high %)

Anyway, thinking of you 

Lotsa love
Natasha x


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Aww cheers Minxy! Can I ask whether you've considered PGD? Or am I right in saying you can't get it in the UK on the NHS unless you've had multiple miscarriages? I mean, if there is a genetic problem how do they know if it's from the eggs and not the sperm until they've looked at the chromosomes? Can you tell I'm getting really fed up with the whole "it's the egg quality" thing?! Or maybe I'm just in denial... 

Hi Alegria, glad that you're able to continue via iui hon, when are they going to do it? Be good to be on the 2ww with you   

Hey Mir - thanks hon! I didn't know Laura had fragmentation issues too? Are you around Laura or am I going to have to trawl back through all your last posts to get the info?!

Ally - yup you got it, some people see nuffink at all. As far as we're concerned, where there's a follie there's a chance so don't let those doomsayers get you down!

Just had a bit of a tantrum about the whole embie thing so I'd love to take my own advice and do some yoga but can't cos I've got a full belly now! OK the poses that (according to my yoga dvd) increase bloodflow to the pelvic region are: 
Bhujangasana (the cobra); - Lying on your stomach, place hands flat on the floor under your shoulders and as you breathe out, push up with your arms, raising the head, shoulders, neck and torso so you're resting on your pelvis, you can either keep the arms bent (less strain on the back) and look straight ahead; or straighten the arms and let your head fall back so you're looking at the ceiling. You need to really squeeze your buttocks together and tense your legs otherwise it puts too much strain on the back. Try to hold the pose while you breathe in and out slowly and deeply 8 times, rest for a couple of slow breaths and repeat.

Paschimottanasana (The forward bend); sit on the floor with both legs stretched straight out in front. Either use a belt or if you are flexible enough, reach forward and hold on to the outside of your feet. Keep your back straight. Use your breath, after a while you'll feel it gets easier to either lean further forwards or move your hands further down the belt. This pose also works the kidneys, calms the mind and can be used to relieve period pains. This is my favourite pose cos I really do feel much more chilled afterwards

There's a variation on the forward bend where you have one leg bent called Janu Sirsasana so I should think the effects of that would be the same as with Paschimottanasana

Re; Inverted poses, I tend to avoid these during tx as my trusty dvd says that these should be avoided during menstruation which I took to mean that they divert blood away from the pelvis which is precisely what I DON'T want to do during tx. As I say this is just my interpretation of that instruction, I could have got it wrong, so please do your own research!

Apologies to any yoga purists as I'm sure I've misspelled the names and I'm also sure that there are other poses with similar effects, but I got my info from a v basic yoga class dvd so it's far from exhaustive. *I really would highly recommend you get a dvd / go to a class to practise though cos it's much better if you can actually see the poses and there's an experienced teacher talking you through the moves so you don't do it wrong and hurt yourself (and yes, you can hurt yourself if you don't do it properly so consider yourselves warned!) * My dvd is called "Learn Yoga" with Louisa Sear and Rachel Zinman. It's a good one although the sound quality is a bit poo and the teacher has a really annoying habit of smacking her lips when she talks, but the poses are clearly described, she shows an easy and hard version of the more complicated ones and usually as there's 2 of them you get to see both versions at the same time. They also go out of their way to say that you shouldn't overdo it, it's not a competition or a test, do what you can and if you practise regularly you'll be able to do the more difficult poses and for longer. There's also a beginners and a general class on there which is good as you don't get chucked straight in the deep end with the tough poses! See the amazon deets here if you're interested

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Yoga-Learn-Louisa-Sear/dp/B00005O42U

Good luck all!

xxx

/links


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## minttuw (Jan 22, 2007)

Ally1973 said:


> Re yoga - yes I would be really interested to know too!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I have been doing yoga (until a couple of weeks ago, have a sore back at the mo so not doing it) and I know that the inverted poses (such as shoulder stands etc) are good for hormone regulation but dont know about blood flow to the pelvic area...
> 
> ...


Hi Ally,

I did some research on the web and found that the 'bound angle pose' ('baddha konasana') stimulates abdominal organs and ovaries and improves blood circulation through the pelvis. Here you can see how it's done: 
http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/663
http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/486 
http://yogaon7th.com/ptow/PTsuptabaddha.html

And here are two articles on the subject yoga and fertility with suggestions on poses:
http://cleansingblog.com/2007/12/19/the-yoga-of-fertility/
http://www.pregnancy-info.net/alternative_medicine_yoga_postures.html

I'm off to practising now!

Miranda7, thanks for your encouraging words.

Minttu

/links


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

Nix - that's exactly what I am wondering - how do they know that it is the egg and not the sperm??


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Nikki2008 said:


> Nix - that's exactly what I am wondering - how do they know that it is the egg and not the sperm??


Answers on a postcard please!

Cheers for those yoga links Minttu...

xxx


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Nixf01 said:


> Aww cheers Minxy! Can I ask whether you've considered PGD? Or am I right in saying you can't get it in the UK on the NHS unless you've had multiple miscarriages? I mean, if there is a genetic problem how do they know if it's from the eggs and not the sperm until they've looked at the chromosomes? Can you tell I'm getting really fed up with the whole "it's the egg quality" thing?! Or maybe I'm just in denial...





Nikki2008 said:


> Nix - that's exactly what I am wondering - how do they know that it is the egg and not the sperm??


I'm not sure if you can get PGD on NHS to be honest....but as we're private again now anyway it's doesn't really matter (we had first 2 IVFs and 2 FETs private, then our next 2 IVFs were NHS funded....now private again). We have thought about it but not discussed in any detail with our consultant as yet.

Although they can't give in depth information about chromosones etc, they can tell whether it is egg or sperm that is causing abnormal fertilisation.....in our case it's where my eggs don't throw off the excess genetic material when fertilised....and more than one sperm getting in 

We've been advised to thaw our remaining 6 embies (day 3 from 2nd IVF) and take to blastocyst when we have FET later this year.

Not sure what we're going to do re immune issues as consultant had also recommended we both have full Chicago bloods (me again but DP not had any) to include karotyping etc with a view to me having IVIG as he feels that the steriods & clexane just aren't enough for me......so another thing we need to decide on...whether we do that and then have the FET....or try the FET without this and just the steriods/clexane.

Oh and I've been told I should have yet another hysteroscopy before FET (last one was Feb 2007 when I had my last lap/dye as well). Luckily I get that on private healthcare as I've ongoing known issues which aren't directly related to fertility.......and my healthcare insurance is "disregard all previous medical history" thank god !!

All in all though, lots of decisions.....and lots more money !

Are you going to do PGD do you think ?

N xx


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Am I going to do PGD?  In France?  Yeah sometime roundabout when hell freezes over. I don't even think it's legal here yet, they're such bloody dinosaurs!  It's nice that your lot give you the info you need with regard to your egg quality though.  Mine won't tell me sh1t and it's very disconcerting as I don't know if it's because in typically haughty French fashion, they think cos I haven't got a medical degree, I won't understand.  Or alternatively it's because they aren't capable of finding out.  And I don't dare ask because if I found out it was the latter, that would completely destroy what little faith I have in the system over here.

I mean when I called today to ask about how the embies were doing (as noone bothered to call me to let me know), he just said 3 were fragmented.  So I asked "what percentage?".  I don't think he could quite believe that I'd asked the question, or that I knew what I meant by it because he then went into a long spiel about how they use fragmentation to see how good the eggs are. So I counted to 10 and said, very slowly, "Yes.  And it is normally measured in percentage points, isn't it?  So what is the percentage of fragmentation on those embryos?"  To which he grudgingly replies, "over 50%". No info on the number of cells. No opinion as to whether they're likely to continue to develop. Nuffink!  As for the others I know the number of cells and I know there's some fragmentation but I don't know exactly how much (just, "less than 25%") or on which ones...  Jeez, it's like getting blood out of a stone!

About the 2 sperm one egg thing, I also found research which says that this is down to a problem with the sperm.  I think the story went that the sperm is supposed to release something or set something off to stop any other eggs getting in but if the sperm doesn't do this then more than one can get in.  The way I read it, this was down to a problem with the sperm, NOT the egg quality which is completely the opposite to what I'd been led to believe previously.  I'll see if I can find the link again and post it here in a bit.

And YET ANOTHER hysteroscopy?!  Did they say why they think you need it? Did the last scan show more adhesions or something?  Or do they just like looking up your hoo-hah? 

Thank God for Private Medical Insurance! If it hadn't been for BUPA I think I'd still be wandering around with knackered tubes and no idea why I wasn't getting preg!


x


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi again, my bad, I had not remembered what I'd read correctly about fertilisation issues. I've just reread the articles and the main causes of polyspermy (fertilisation of egg by more than one sperm) are, according to the following website; http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=14886459 ;

immature eggs ; i.e., which means there was nothing wrong with your egg, just the doc triggered you too early

high concentration of sperm in the sample - again how is this a problem related to egg quality? Maybe if they reduced the amount of sperm they put in the petri dish then it wouldn't happen?

Suboptimal in vitro conditions, such as supplementations in IVF media - again, sorry but I fail to see what the hell this has to do with the quality of the eggs that I'm producing? I don't select the substance they use in the lab, do I?

and here - http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/442/1/88

bit wordy but the last sentence sums it up; "Reduction of the number of spermatozoa used for in vitro fertilization and the exact timing of insemination according to the maturity of the oocyte might reduce the occurrence of polyspermic fertilization"

And another one;
http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/21/2/518#SEC3

"Regarding polyspermy, a significantly lower rate (>2 PN) was seen in group A compared to group B (2.8 versus 7.2%). In previous studies *polyspermy has been related to the maturation status of the oocytes * (Van Der Ven et al., 1985; Angell et al., 1986; Plachot et al., 199, and in the present study.... theoretically there could be more mature oocytes in the control group. *Polyspermy has also been linked to the use of a high concentration of capacitated sperm at the site of fertilization and suboptimal in vitro conditions (Hunter, 1990; Niwa and Wang, 2001; Wang et al., 2003). * In IVF, oocytes are exposed to very high number of sperm, which can cause simultaneous sperm penetrations, whereas in normal conception the oviduct isthmus serves as a sperm reservoir and regulates the number of sperm reaching the site of fertilization, which ensures normal fertilization. In the present study, it is likely that the sperm selection mechanisms have been stricter in the study group than in the control group"

So, in the face of all this... why are they still saying it's because our eggs are crap? 

/links


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

Nix - can you imagine your clinic (any clinic) saying - 'sorry but we triggered you too early' or 'sorry we put too much sperm in the dish' or 'in vitro conditions are suboptimal, the IVF media we use are no good'?


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

You're right!  Anyway, they don't know how to say sorry over here.  Unless it's in the context of "sorry your eggs are so crap".  I would laugh if it wan't so bloody frustrating!


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

And you think they are saying sorry over here? 

Anyway all the best for tomorrow


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

cheers hon! 

Where's Mira by the way?  Has Bob the Bump finally decided to make a break for freedom?!
xxx


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## minttuw (Jan 22, 2007)

minttuw said:


> http://yogaon7th.com/ptow/PTsuptabaddha.html
> 
> /links


Just wanted to say that I just tried the above pose and was lying in it for almost 30 mins. I had a heat bag on my tummy and an eyebag over my eyes and was listening to soothing music and the sun was shining on me through the window. How relaxing! I think I fell asleep briefly as it didn't feel like that long at all. I used a lot of bolsters and cushions so that I felt comfortable and my back and neck were not hurting, and a strap to keep my feet in place. I also was doing Qi Gong breathing (from 'The Infertility Cure' by Randine Lewis) and could really feel my pelvic and lower tummy area pulsing and throbbing. Must have been the blood rushing to the right palces! Wonderful! Will do this every day.

Last night I also started doing 'femoral massage' described in the same book (with the help of DH - he does the compressing). Has anyone tried it? It feels weird....

Just got a call from the clinic and had to start taking Viagra and Dexamethasone tablets as well as Clexane injections. Yippee!!?? 

Nixf01, good luck with the French! My sister lives in France but I had no idea it's that difficult there!!

Minttu
x


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## Swinny (Jul 10, 2007)

Hi Guys

Sorry I’ve been quiet for the last few days but my mouth has been killing me so just been dosing myself up with painkillers. I look like Quasi Modo.

Laura - How did the scan go babes??

Merse - How are you chick??

Mirra – I am thinking that if my FSH is still quite high in August I will come off the HRT and give it a month or so and then have my FSH re-tested in September. If it’s still high, I may just give it a go anyway if CARE will let me.
Oh and yep, I have got a bit of a Northern accent. Not a Manc one though, more Lancashire I think.

Emma – Thanks hun. Managed to get some sleep last night as I was absolutely knackered. Apparantely though I was snoring like a wart hog though…attractive hey!! Face like the elephant man and I snoring, I don’t know how Paul kept his hands off me 

Lolli – Good luck with your new life in Oz matey 

Kazzie  

Steph – Right with you on the sore throat matey. My glands have come up as a result of them taking the tooth on Monday, so I sound all throaty….ouch!!! Hope you’re feeling better too soon xx Oh and check you out our little TV superstar!!

LJ – Great news on the scan. Lets have some lovely ripe eggy’s xx

Nix – Hope those 3 little fighters keep on dividing for you hun xx

Button – Brilliant news hun…whhoo hhooo 9 lovely embies!!

Ally – Don't be fobbed off, 4 follies at such an early stage is good. Go with your gut feeling. My FSH is really raised and I am currently back and to getting tested and to be honest I don't think it helps. Tht makes you more stressed which in turn elevates your FSH.

Alegria – Oh honey, I am sorry that this tx hasn’t gone to plan. I am praying that the IUI works for you 

Bye for now
Sarah xxx


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Hi again

It's all so confusing isn't it....and incredibly frustrating when not getting clear answers. 

Thanks for thos links to articles...haven't had chance to read properly but look interesting....the thing is though that we do have alot of trust in our consultant and embryologist (especially our private consultant who is pretty clued up)....and at least ours are more than happy to answer any questions and address concerns, unlike it seems yours....I'd go completely spare if my consultant fobbed me off the way yours appears to 

I definitely wasn't triggered too early.......and all 30 eggs were mature (not immature)....we had the same issue with our previous cycle as well (16 mature eggs) although not as many abnormally fertilised.  They've even commented on how amazed they were that I get so many mature eggs, especially this last cycle !

The issue isn't primarily with allowing more than 1 sperm in ie polyspermy....as I mentioned, it's the problem with my egg where it doesn't throw off the excess genetic material when it should....although obviously being greedy and letting in an extra sperm is an additional problem !  I must admit that it's all a bit confuzzling for me and I do need to read some more about it.......

It's just frustrating that without having more in depth testing then there's still lots of questions to be answered...I mean, they've said it's partly due to age but other than that they don't know at this stage the exact causes....as the embies we do get are always top quality...and I have been pregnant but just never got past 5 & half weeks (I'm discounting the pg from 18 yrs ago as that was different partner, I was much younger but that's the only pregnancy that I've sustained).

As for me having another hysteroscopy.....yes, the reason I'm having another one is because I have a bicornuate/septate uterus and keep getting uterine adhesions so have these removed at every hysteroscopy I've had (5 so far)....also prone to polyps & have had these removed at my last 2 hysteroscopies.  I asked about having hysteroscopy & I was told it would be a good idea because I do have problems which seem to recurr approx every 18mths/2 years.

Anyway, all I can say is that I truely hope this cycle is successful for you.....keeping fingers crossed   

Take care
Natasha x


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## bugle (Dec 26, 2007)

Hello ... another new thread... am just trying to do a ticker!
Haven't quite succeeded yet!


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## bugle (Dec 26, 2007)

yeah finally managed it!!

Back later when I have caught up!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Evening!

Sarah - would the HRT not affect your FSH reading? I thought any hormones one took affected the reading?
Oo, Lancashire eh? I'll try to imagine it!

Nix - no, still no movement! Tried the natural induction again this afty - nowt.  

Natasha - I think I would be thinking America for immunes - they seem to be the front runners in that field. is that an option?

Alegs - hope the IUI works - you never know, after all. Are they not giving you anything for your lining?

x


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Miranda7 said:


> Natasha - I think I would be thinking America for immunes - they seem to be the front runners in that field. is that an option?


No, I don't think US is an option for treatment but I do agree, they definitely seem to be at the top when it comes to immune issues. Our private consultant is really good when it comes to these though which is why he sent me for tests after 2 naturally conceived mc's. We've seriously thought about having the full immunes done for DP as well as me again though but just need to get finances together.

Must say though, I have briefly chatted to DP about Jinemed !!!

We shall see......

N x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

the Jinemed do do some of the tests, true! And they are lovely there...


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Hi there all.

Alegria - best of luck with the IUI   

Nix - I have to say I really feel you are not being treated well.  I mean - not even agreeing to ICSI?? Being told your eggs are crap with no real evidence??  It must be so frustrating and I am very sorry.  

Bugle - took me several attempts to get Kate's ticker right; Miranda told me it had to be part of my signature rather than down as my ticker.

Ally - good luck. keep going and listen to Swoo.  Also, to answer your question, at my sister's initial scan she had the remains of a burst follicle and that was it.  She was actually thrilled since it was sign of recent activity but she certainly didn't have any "possible" follicles at that stage so you are way up on her.  They didn't scan her until day 9 of stims since they couldn't adjust her dose (she was on the max) and they weren't going to cancel based on a day 6 scan. At the day 9 scan she had 2 decent sized follies, 2 small follies and one tiddler (which they totally discounted).  She was told to hope for 2 eggs.  At egg collection they actually got 5 and all of them fertilised.  She got 4 Grade 1 embies and 1 Grade 2.  Two embies were transferred (and became the twins she is expecting) and 2 were frozen.  Her final embie failed to divide enough.  Regulars here will have heard this story before but I think it is worth telling again because it really does show that quality (which has to be both eggs and sperm) and not quantity is the key factor. The net result for Kate was twins and two frosties - loads of people with many many more eggs don't make that.  

Minttu - hello and welcome!!  Sounds like you are actually doing pretty well with 7 follies!      Give the womb lining a chance - it's not bad either.  Kate's was only 6mm at embryo transfer and she still got a BFP. 

Sarah - I agree with Miranda - surely the HRT would affect your FSH.  Maybe something to check.     Hope the facial swelling goes down soon.       

Natasha - hope you sort out those immune issues.    

Miranda - so where is Bob??  The waiting must be driving you nuts.

Beach - how are you doing? 

Kazzie - and you? 

Laura - any scan news?


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Goodness you girls chat!

Well had a good scan, had a bit of an audience and a consultant did the scan this time, but all three doing well, one is a little smaller so tim thinks that one will be short like me!    Doctor spent time showing us everything carefully.... apparently I have nice big yolk sacs! Never been told that before!  The 4th sac was still there but had collapsed and this is what is causing my bleeding.  The blood pool had gone.  They were really nice and wished us well, talked for ages about Jinemed and the consultant took al the details as he was impressed with them!  He has a few patients he thinks may be interested, he took all the costs and everything! It all felt really positive.

Gonna watch BB then I'll be back for personals.

XX


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Lord - that's a bit different! I haven't had lots of negativity towards going abroad for tx, but fancy him taking the details!

Good to hear there's a reason for the bleeding and that they're all doing well. Hope you get that cons every time - he sounds ace!


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## Button76 (Dec 30, 2006)

Nice one Laura -glad things are good and your 3 little beanies are fine.  xx


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## alegria (Dec 10, 2007)

Had the trigger yesterday and my IUI is tomorrow. They've given me oestrogen pills to insert daily (vaginally   ) for 2wks together with the cyclogest and that should help with the thin lining issue (I've also decided to start taking baby aspirin daily just in case...) . Fingers crossed that'll work. If not, dh and I have already agreed that we'll have a little break and then go for plan B after the summer - Jinmed  

Alegria xxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Mirra - When he was asking so many questions I thought he was going to make a compaint to them about my triplets! He was very nice, I don't think I'll have him again as he was the consult and the EPU and not there anymore... but who knows.

Button - Good Luck for ET tom.  

Ally - Good Luck with scan tom..... let hope they've grown and good questions

Nix - well done on the embies! 

Alegia - Good luck with the IUI tom.  

LJ - Well done on them follies!  

Wow lots going on at the moment.

Sarah - I get ulcers when I'm run down.... SO painful. 

Beach - Wahts happening babe?  Anything? 

Bugle -  well done on the ticker!

Nicks - How bubs?

Steph - I'd love a dvd!

Is that everyone Doubt it! 

XX


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Laura- as I said in my text, so pleased and so relieved all is well


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Thanks hon.  I'm relieved too.. although it won't last long!!    Hows you chick?


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

I'm ok ish thanks Laura, feeling a bit down as I;d be 12 weeks on Sat and it's hit me again today


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

I know, its so unfair, I hate it that this has happened to soemone as lovely as you.  

At the EPU today there was a horrible 16yr old in there with someone who wasn't her mum (as she shouted this at her in the waiting room!) and she was so horrible.  The older lady was saying you may have to stay in or have an injection and she was swearing and saying they couldn't make her and she didn't care if it would harm the baby or not.  Was just so horribel to see.  All those ladies in the waiting room who have more than likely had m/carriages all distressed and upset and there was this kid who just didn't care about her little baby.  When we came out Tim said how unfair it was that you lovely ladies would make such good mums and she would be an awful mum and yet she is the ones thats pregnant.  It just makes you realise how unfair it all is.  

I'm so very sorry this has happened to you.  I wish I could say or do something but I know there isn't anything that will help.


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Thank you everyone for the past 24 hours!! You have all been amazing!

I was a broken woman after my scan yesterday but now feel much more positive (ooh the fertility rollercoaster is wicked!) 

Jaya from the Lister called me today - I got an instantly good vibe off her (just goes to show it is not necessarily just the bad news you dont want to hear, sometimes the person delivering it can make a HUGE difference to how you feel). She said she was shocked what Marie Wren had said. She said that she felt passionately about my situation and wanted to give me the best chance, she also said that i was very young (i LOVE that woman!!). So hopefully we will work something out whatever the scan shows tomorrow!

I am just about to tuck me and my follicles up with a wheatbag so no time to respond personally to all those who have been so kind but thank you all so much x

I will report back tomorrow and get a bit more personal x

Night night xxxx

Just noticed new post Laurab - none of this is fair - so many lovely people going through hell while the junkie on the corner pops em out like their going out of fashion x We WILL all get there though, oh yes!!!!


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Oh fighting talk Ally... thats what we like on this thread!

Good Luck tom!


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## lainey-lou (Feb 18, 2007)

Hi Girls.

Do you mind if I join you?    I have been lurking for a while.

I am PUPO at the moment but have had the most disappointing round of IVF this time.  I have had two previous SP low stim rounds and got 5 and 4 eggs with those.  This time I changed clinics and they pumped me full of drugs, resulting in only two eggs.  One fertilized and was transferred today.  I have been told my AMH is 2.84 so very low and my highest FSH is 15.

I noticed that some of you have had good results with similar readings to me.  Any advice you could give me would be much appreciated.  I should be feeling positive but I am already planning my next cycle    I noticed some of you have been to Turkey, are they good there?

I look forward to getting to know you all.

Lainey x


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi all 

oooh busy thread!

*Laura* - am thrilled that you had such a great experience with the staff at your hospital at scan today, and that all is looking good  - when they say your bleeding was caused by a 4th sac does that mean a 4th embie tried to implant? Loving the ticker  - and will happily send you a DVD (hopefully this weekend/early next week) if you PM me your address 

*Beachy* - I'm so sorry too, that you are going through this  sending you lots of love - will happily send you a DVD too if you PM me your address 

*Button* - excellent news re your fertlisation - 9 out o 11 is a great rate! hope they all continue to grow for you - will they be taking them to blastocycst?

*Popsi* - sorry the DR is making you feel yuck - you'll feel much better when you have the stimms? Are you still on the DHEA?

*Em* - never tried the editing software on my Mac but will have a go when I get some time and try to upload a chunk to ******** - or could you play a region 2 DVD in HK? or I could send you one to somewhere in UK if you are coming home soon?

*Lainey-Lou* - welcome to the thread  and congratulations on being PUPO, even if you are feeling disappointed in this cycle - its not over yet and there are ladies on here that prove that it really DOES just take one! and I really hope you become one of them    I am going to Turkey again myself next month and can highly recommend them, but hopefully you won't need to think about having another go - Good luck and stay  !

*Ally *- so glad you had a better experience talking to Jaya - I heard her praised to the heavens before on FF  she sounds lovely  hope those 4 small follies have grown into good ones when you get scanned tomorrow   

*Alegria* - so sorry your lining didn'y grow and you had to convert to IUI  (I know how this feels, although mine was due to one hungry follicle - it's so frustrating!) -    that it will work! When is your test date?

*Sarah* - hope your poor sore mouth feels heaps better soon!   Whatever you do don't eat peanuts - my friend got one stuck in the hole where she'd had her wisdom tooth removed once and had to have it tweezered out - owwwww even remembering! 

*Bugle* - nice ticker! 

*Matchbox* - if you are still with us - I read on another thread that you got your  - Congratulations!  and I hope you have a very happy and healthy  pregnancy!

*Minttuw *- welcome to the thread - I had heard about the femoral massage and thought it was an interesting idea (and of course it's free!  ) - somewhere on Randine Lewis's website I think (http://www.thefertilesoul.com) - I hope you get some lovely eggs this cycle - good luck!   

*Minxy* - really hope your FET later this year brings you your BFP   

*Nix* - hope your embies turn out to be fragmented in the way Laura's were - ie you end up with twins! how many are you allowed to put back over there? We are all rooting for you  and I really hope you still have some good ones for transfer   
*
Swoo* - good to see you - hope you are feeling well 

Sorry if I've missed anyone - gonna post this as it's got so long - back in a mo!

xxx


/links


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi again - well my sore throat has disappeared which is great - think maybe it was just bad hayfever 

Got some info from Jinemed this afternoon and also some prices - they would charge the same for Microflare Protocol as they do for Short Protocol with Letrazole. It turns out that starting it in London and flying over after day 7 would cost over £500 more than doing the whole lot in Turkey.... the main reason for starting in London was cos we thought it might be a little cheaper, but if its not, we may as well fly to Turkey at the beginning of July. Also, we started it in London last time as we really didn't know if I'd have follicles following not having any the month before, and didn't want to risk paying out on the flights in case that month was a no-go too. I'm not so worried about this happening again (hoping it was the pill/a one off) though of course it is a risk. 

I think we are planning to fly out and make a decision re protocol once we see what antral follicle scan shows and FSH etc - gotta confirm that this is OK with them though.

Am due on the 1st July.... so it looks like we might be doing the whole cycle together with Alex (ophelia) and Iain - hope they don't mind our company!!

I want to get the FSH tested again as it was 20 in April after taking the pill (after being 7 and 8 in January and February). I won't be taking the pill this time so if it is down to 7 or 8 again (along with having some visible antral follicles) I will know that the chances are it was the pill that messed me up before, and therefore messed up my chances of getting anywhere with the Letrazole protocol. And I would therefore want to do the Letrazole protocol to give myself a fair chance at it this time, if that makes sense!

If it is really high again, and say only one follicle showing, then we'd probably try Natural IVF once more. If it's middling, then we will see what Teksen says about the Microflare Protocol, and why he thinks I should try it (have had some info but still not sure how it relates to me) and decide then whether to do Microflare or Letrazole.

Feel better now I know (sort of!) what we're doing and can get going on the working out dates/booking of flights etc  Thanks for listening to my ramblings!! 

Off to DH's Mum's up in Cambridgeshire tomorrow for a couple of days - back on here Saturday night/Sunday - happy chatting!


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2008)

Laura - Congrats on your scan, so pleased your little bubs are growing as they should - love the ticker too  

Bugle - Loving your ticker too  

Steph - Glad you've had a response from the prof - I think I understand your plan of action.  Nice that you'll have some company when you're out there.  I'm back in the UK in July so I'll PM you an address where you can send your Oscar performance to    Have a lovely time at MIL's.  

Nix - Argghhhh, your Con sounds sooooo frustrating.  Sorry to hear about the fragmentation on three of your embies, but you still have three left that are looking good.  I also had fragmentation on the embies I used for FET (don't know what percentage though) so it doesn't mean it's all over.  When is ET?   

Button - Congrats on your fabulous fertilisation rate.  Good luck for the progress call today   

Lainey - Welcome to the thread    Sending you lots of    for your embie

Alegria & Ally -    

Nikki - Hello  

Swinny -   I've been told I can snore for England too and DH never wakes me up - he says that he's just glad I'm having a good sleep!  Sadly I'm not as tolerant and if DH is having a snore-fest I'm always sure to tell him - quite bluntly - that he's keeping me awake    Glad the pain is subsiding - you'll be back on those toffees before you know it  

Mira - Any sign of Bob?  A show or anything?

Beach -    I do know how you feel and it will get better, I promise    

Hello to everyone else  

Had a good night's sleep last night which amazed me, despite the fact that I was awake for an hour or so with my restless legs.  Had a blood test yesterday as GP thinks I may have low iron which would explain my restless legs.  I also have thrush which I've been told is very common in pregnancy.  GP did took a swab yesterday just to make sure it's nothing more sinister so should get those results back today.  DH is back tonight so promise I will get him to take a photo of bump once he's put his suitcase down  

xxxxxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Lainey- welcome xxx

Feeling a bit more positive today, Steph, will pm my address, thanks x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Morning all!

Beach - glad you're feeling a little more positive. It must be so hard to buoy yourself back up again.  

Emma - apparently bananas are good for restless legs (something to do with potassium). No, no show or anything!

Steph - I really think this cycle will be very different. It's weird how it's cheaper to do the whole cycle over there, but good, too, because you get to relax a bit more.

Lainey - that's very interesting that you respoinded so much better to a natural cycle. What drugs did they put you on for the high-stims approach?
It's so difficult to say what's the best approach, as it can vary so wildly from cycle to cycle and from person to person.
Your AMH - what scale is that on? Is it on the one which you can get readings of up to 45 or the one where normal is up to 6.8?
I went to the Jinemed too, and can't praise them highly enough - I really felt in good hands and it was so much more relaxing being away from all the home pressures.

Ally - Jaya - is bloody LOVELY. Just the person you want. She was the one who gave me my AMH result, and was so lovely to me as I sat there sobbing my heart out. She really gave me hope. When I cycled at the Lister I had a different cons for every stage, so I have seen most of them! Jaya and Mohammed stuck out as being the nicest, along with sonographer Liz.

Laura - there but for the grace of God go I and all that - you wouldn't want to be 16, pregnant and in EPU with your mum, really you wouldn't. I think God has comic timing.  
I always say this, but I can't feel resentful about addicts and teenagers falling pregnant so easily, because for them, it's not the miracle we know it to be. It's just a real pain in the **** at best, and devastating at worst for them. I would have hated being pregnant at 16!

xxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Morning Mir- any signs of the bobster?  How are you?


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

No, no signs! I had a dream last night where I had given birth and two days later I still hadn't held my baby (who was a girl!). I got home and Pete had put netting over the moses basket, crib and cot and I couldn't see which one had the baby in. I had to rip the metting off each of them to get her out and cuddle her.
That's the second dream I've had where I haven't been able to hold my baby for two days.

gah. I just want him out to see if he's ok!

I've ordered a plaster of paris bump cast kit - no doubt my waters will break halfway through Pete slathering me with plaster!

How's the patio coming along? I want to get pete to move a grapevine - but I have a feeling that will kill it for this year and it won't come back till next year. Vague memory of doing it before and that's what happened.

Tell me, why am I so bad at Scramble? I haven't won a single match yet!


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Mir- I have no idea why, think that the board is the champ not us..or rather Steph  

Patio gone quiet, just ordered some trellis for the garage to screen it and some log roll to edge the lawn.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Nice one! What will you grow up it? I do like a vine. I love clematis too, but I've had no luck with the really pretty ones. My fave is clematis Josephne - here's a pic:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mailorderplants4me.com/images/prod/clematis_josephine.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mailorderplants4me.com/products/1080&h=333&w=500&sz=38&hl=en&start=26&um=1&tbnid=X_6rvRQX-EkZHM:&tbnh=87&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dclematis%2Bjosephine%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DDKUK,DKUK:2006-28,DKUK:en%26sa%3DN

Weirdly, when I searched, there's quite a difference between Josephines.

[red]This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites[/red]


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Oh that's lovely, We're going to have plants in pots and grow things up them that way I think, got a couple of plants already and then thinking about having some herbs growing in between the slabs such as thyme etc.


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Aww Miranda - I put a clematis Josephine on my late dog's grave.  Her name was Josephine (Josie) and god I loved her so much.

Feeling really low and depressed today - have been reading up on empty follicle syndrome.  Emotions seem to be all over the place - can I blame the stims?


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

LJ   here if you need a chat x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oo, nothing like lovely smells while you're sitting outside - I keep meaning to get some more rosemary and lavender for outside the door, but failing to move my bum to the garden centre. One day!

Ach, I couldn't bear to lose one of my dogs, LilJen! They are my babies - and still will be after Bob's born.
Don't start worrying about empty follies! Four of mine were empty last cycle, but I'm a PR and was only expecting four eggs max - the extra follies just gave me a mental boost for the cycle.
You, on the other hand, will be FINE. I think it mostly happens when they've used Clomid or letrozole or something to multiply the follies artificially.


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## when will it happen? (Feb 27, 2008)

Hi... Im not even sure if Im in the right place to ask for advice but I think I am what you would call a poor responder? ......

I had my scan at 8.30am this morning ... I only have 3 folicles on my left ovary and NONE on my right side... I am absolutely gutted.  The size of them is 15.6, 12.4 and 7.7.  

The nurse talked a lot to us about abondoning the cycle and increasing the dose 'next time' (I am currently on 225 of Puregon).  If we abandon it before EC then we will get another free go on the NHS.

I feel so protective over my follicles and dont want to abandon the cycle - afterall there is no guarantee of a better result next time.... but what would you do?

Even if all 3 follicles contain eggs it would be unlikely that they all fertilise but I know it only takes 1.  

I was supposed to be having EC on Monday but now I am just going back for another scan to monitor the situation.... I have to continue with the Buserelin and Puregon til them.

I am so upset and confused and disappointed I cant think straight.

Can anyone help me?

When will it happen x


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2008)

LilJen - Are they checking your E2 (oestrogen levels) - that will give an indication of how many eggs you should get at EC   

V envious of you all talking about your gardens - we don't have one here, bit hard being on the 33rd floor  

Mira - Goodness, what horrible dreams you're having - I hate dreams like that.  Hope your cast comes soon - will you let us all sign it?

Beach - Glad you're feeling brighter today  

Well had my iron levels back and they were 12 and they should be around 60 so I'm now on iron tablets.  Hopefully that'll sort out the RLS as well as giving me black poos.  I've also heard that bananas are good too - will stock up on some.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I boosted my iron by eating lots of spinach and rocket, Emma! They turn your poo black too, but don't make you constipated like the tablets can.
Do you have a window box?

WWIH - you are on a very low dose, and it's quite possible you'd get lots more eggs with more drugs. however, those three may be of excellent quality and the ones to get you pregnant. I'd follow your heart and complete the cycle. I only got four on maximum stims, so three on half that doesn't seem too bad to me.
A lower dose will give you better quality, and the build-up to a cycle is the worst bit in a way - you've got through that, so you could give it a bash and complete, just to see how these things go.
However... being given a free cycle isn't to be sniffed at, either. If they're prepared to give you another shot if you abandon now it's worth thinking about.

I've not clarified things for you at all, have I?


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## when will it happen? (Feb 27, 2008)

Thanks Miranda - that has helped me.  Its obviously my first cycle and still learning lots ... I didnt realise I was on a low dose and that the eggs are generally of a better quality when on a lower dose ... that has certainly given me food for thought.

My heart tells me to continue on ... I just hope the hospital dont try to talk me out of it.  Many thanks for your support x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Just go for it then - after all, they would have to spend lots to put you through another cycle with higher stims, so explain you want to carry on and I don't think they'll dissuade you. They could raise your dose for the next few days, but it most likely would just grow those three rather than produce any more at this stage.

I'd carry on as you are and see what those three do.

xx


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Thanks all - still feeling worried.  They did test my E2 yesterday but said they would call me back if it were too low or too high so I sort of assume it was ok since they didn't.  I just called now for details and they just repeated they would have called me if there was a problem.  they did say all my follies looked a decent size, which I suppose is a good sign.  Just trying to think positive.


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## Button76 (Dec 30, 2006)

Afternoon everyone

Just typed a huge post and then laptop crashed.  How annoying!

Hope everyone one is OK today.

Beachgirl - Glad to hear that you are feeling a little bit better today?  I really feel for what you are going through.  

LilJen - Try not to worry too much about empty follicles.  Your clinic seems to be monitoring you pretty closely so I'm sure they would have told you if they thought that things weren't going well.  Do you know when EC is likely to be yet?  Keep your chin up honey.   

WWIH - Miranda seems to have given you lots of her good advice.  Just because you only have a few follicles doesn't mean that the cycle needs to be stopped.  What is it with clinics that they just want to stop as soon as you don't respond how they would like you to.  Hope you are able to make a decision about what to do.  Good Luck.

Miranda - I think it is probably only natural to be having lots of dreams at this stage.  You are just waiting for something to happen!  Hope he comes out soon!

Steph - Glad that you have managed to get some info from the Jinemed.  Lots of Luck for hen you start and I hope that you have a good couple of days away.

Nix - Do you have ET today.  I have everything crossed for you.  You must be getting hugely frustrated with the lack of information that they are giving you.  Why will they not consider ICSI?  Seems stupid given the information that you do know about your embryos.  Lots of Luck to you.    

Emmachoc - Good Luck on the Iron tablets. Hope they don;t bung you up too much.  Getting munching on those green leafy vegetables!!

Laura - Was great to see that you scan was such good news yesterday.  Here's to a happy and healthy pregnancy.  Have you had anymore dirty meat??!!

Lainey-Lou - Good luck for your 2ww and sorry to hear that this time didn't work as well as you would have liked.  Let's hope that the one little embie you have is THE one.    

Ally - Hope your scan goes well today.  Glad that you managed to speak to someone who was more understanding.

I apologise to anyone I have missed off.  It is just so hard to keep up!!

I spoke to the embryologist this morning and all of the embryos are doing well.  He did go into detail about the grading but didn't mean a lot to me.  All had divided and were good or top quality.  He will call again tomorrow to let us know if we are likely to go to blasts but he seemed optimistic.  Fingers crossed.

Have an appointment with my GP this afternoon to try and get signed off.  Hope he is in a nice mood, he can be a bit weird!!

Have a good day everyone.

Love Button xxxx


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## sjc (Apr 27, 2006)

Hi All

Thank you to that lovely person who posted info on flats in Turkey, it was a great post, thank you again. Steph, you too, your up there with Miranda on your lovely info packed responces.

Laura, wooo hoo well done for yesterday.

Miranda, where do I order DHEA from? E.mailed Jaya last night about it and she sent me a massive on going USA study on it with fab results, women in their 40's having ovaries in their 20's (sounds like my kind of drug). Will try and post it later for some knowledge sharing. It appears, like you have saud I am sure, that after 4 months appears to be the optimum time to go for IVF!

Speak later

Sam x

*FF does not condone or encourage self medicating ~ please discuss with your consultant first


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

sjc - I ordered mine from www.dhea.com. All the best    



/links


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## sjc (Apr 27, 2006)

Can I ask what dose, study says low??


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

75mg according to the study below:

Effect of dehydroepiandrosterone on oocyte and embryo yields, embryo grade and cell number in IVF 
David Barad 1 * and Norbert Gleicher 2

BACKGROUND: The aim of this study was to investigate the effect of treatment with dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on fertility outcomes among women with diminished ovarian reserve. MATERIALS AND METHODS: This is a case-control study in an academically affiliated private infertility centre. Twenty-five women with significantly diminished ovarian reserve had one IVF cycle before and after DHEA treatment, with otherwise identical hormonal stimulation. Women received 75 mg of DHEA daily (25 mg three times daily) for an average of 17.6 ± 2.13 weeks. We performed a comparison of IVF outcome parameters, before and after DHEA treatment, including peak estradiol (E2) levels, oocyte and embryo numbers, oocyte and embryo quality and embryo transfer statistics. RESULTS: Paired analysis of IVF cycle outcomes in 25 patients, who underwent cycles both before and after DHEA supplementation, demonstrated significant increases in fertilized oocytes (P < 0.001), normal day 3 embryos (P = 0.001), embryos transferred (P = 0.005) and average embryo scores per oocyte (P < 0.001) after DHEA treatment. CONCLUSION: This study confirms the previously reported beneficial effects of DHEA supplementation on ovarian function in women with diminished ovarian reserve.

*FF does not condone or encourage self medicating ~ please discuss with your consultant first 

/links


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Sam - Oh, PLEASE let us have the study Jaya sent you - I'm forever having to defend DHEA and the more studies available the better!

I ordered it from agestop, but Biovea's also good - there are quite a few places offering it on the net, as it's licensed in other countries.

Button - what a fab result! You'll have OODLES of frosties! Wow. 

LilJen - you are just a compulsive worrier! And it takes one to know one. Think we'll start a compulsive worrier thread on here? Except we'd have too many members to keep track I guess.

Nikki - cheers for that! I'll add it to my growing bundle of evidence.


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## sjc (Apr 27, 2006)

Here goes

Prematurely Aging Ovaries Overview
Older women (generally above age 3, and younger women with so-called
prematurely aging ovaries, will often find it harder to get pregnant. We,
here at CHR, have a special interest in the "aging ovary" and have been
conducting a lot of research on this topic. See Ovarian Aging: is there a
"Norm" in Contemporary ObGyn. Our program has become known in the
community as the program of "last resort" and we, therefore, have probably
proportionally more "older ovaries" under treatment than any other
infertility center in New York City.

One of our patients, not too long ago, indeed, taught us a very important
new lesson, which we, since, have diligently investigated with an
increasing number of our patients. She, without our knowledge, had started
taking the over the counter available, mild male hormone, DHEA and, as a
consequence, greatly increased her oocyte (egg) yield in IVF. Indeed,
after approximately four months of DHEA usage, her 43-year old ovaries
behaved like those of woman in her 20ies.

Treatment Qualifications
If you are older than 40 and are unable to get pregnant after trying for
six months, complete the Prematurely Aging Ovaries Qualification Form to
determine if you qualify for our DHEA Treamtment Program. This new
treatment may improve the patients' inherently limited preg nancy chances.
Such a treatment offered itself when one of our patients, without our
knowledge, started to take the mild male hormone, DHEA, and, subsequently,
greatly increased her oocyte yield in IVF cycles. Indeed, this 43 year old
woman, after approximately four months of DHEA treatment, featured ovaries
which in function and sonographic appearance were indistinguishable from
ovaries one would expect in much younger females.

Because of the extremely dramatic improvement in ovarian response by this
patient after DHEA use, we felt ethically obliged to publicize this
finding as quickly as possible since, in older women, time is, of course,
of essence. A more formal scientific report of this case appeared in
Fertility and Sterility, the official organ of the American Society for
Reproductive Medicine (ASRM).

As we have emphasized from the beginning, one case in medicine may give
hope but is certainly not enough to reach far reaching conclusions of any
kind. We have emphasized this fact from day one; not only to our patients,
but have also stressed it in our writings. At the same time we, however,
have mounted a strong effort to investigate the use of DHEA as a potential
extender of female fertility and have done so in two distinctive formats..

The ultimate study format for any clinical trial is the double blinded,
prospectively randomized study. Such a study has been approved by our
Institutional Review Board (IRB) and is under way. This study, however,
mandates the use of a placebo, a sugar pill, in half of all patients. In
practical terms this means that one half of all patients in this study
will receive no treatment for up to four months. To give no treatment to
an older woman who, maybe, has only a few months of reproductive life
left, would not be considered ethical. We, therefore, had to restrict this
study to a relatively young patient population, between the ages of 35 and
40 years. Women above age 40 will not be enrolled in this study.

They, however, are given the option of using DHEA, anyhow, by serving as
their own controls. In this study, we compare patients' IVF outcomes,
before they started using DHEA, to IVF cycle outcomes after the use of the
medication. This form of a study is, of course, not as well controlled as
a double blinded, prospectively randomized study, but, as this case so
well demonstrates, such studies are not always possible in medicine and,
sometimes, we have to accept a second best study format.

Two other IVF centers, one in New York and the other in Chicago, have
joined us in the prospectively randomized study and we hope to be able to
report results within a reasonably short time period. Finding infertility
patients who agree to be randomized to possible placebo for four months
is, of course, not always easy. We have, however, so far been able to
place over 30 patients into the second study and are, therefore, already
in a position to report further preliminary results. These results are
currently being summarized for another formal scientific publication.
However, because of the obvious time pressures involved in older women, we
feel an ethical obligation to pass these preliminary results on as soon as
we become aware of them.

Treatment Findings To Date - 10/20/05
At the annual meeting of the ASRM which took place between October 17-19
in Montreal, Canada. Drs Gleicher and Barad presented a number of research
papers and, amongst them, the DHEA Update received considerable attention.
This presentation by Dr. Gleicher offered the most recent update of CHR's
DHEA data and also represented the first presentation of these data
(except for CHR Grandrounds) on U.S. soil. Dr. Gleicher had presented
earlier talks on the subject at the World Congress for IVF in Istanbul, at
the ESHRE meeting in Copenhagen and on recent lecture tour through Japan
and Taiwan. To a packed house, the presentation involved outcome data on
DHEA patients who had completed IVF cycles and, for the first time, a life
table analysis of all patients who had been started on DHEA which,
therefore, also included the many spontaneous pregnancies we have
witnessed in this patient population. This kind of analysis allows
separating prognostic factors by such patient characteristics as age and,
therefore, represents a very useful tool in counseling patients. What this
analysis demonstrated is that women with prematurely aging ovaries, under
age 38 years, have excellent pregnancy chances with the use of DHEA. Women
with prematurely aging or physiologically aged ovaries, between ages 39
and 42 years also still have surprisingly good pregnancy rates, though
lower than the former group. Above age 42, the establishment of pregnancy
is difficult, even with DHEA, though our oldest ongoing pregnancy is in a
patient who was age 45 years at time of conception.

Treatment Findings - 9/1/05
In this month's update we want to inform you about yet another remarkable
observation we have made in patients who have started using DHEA:
Spontaneous pregnancies, while patients wait to go into IVF cycles.

We are currently in the final stages of calculating what is called a life
table analysis (LTA) for all patients who, over the last year, have been
placed on DHEA. The purpose of such a LTA is to document all pregnancies
that have occurred, whether spontaneously or through IVF, so that this
overall rate can be compared to what would be expected from such a patient
population.

Such a statistical comparison is not ideal because under best study
conditions one would, of course, like to compare patients who were blindly
given DHEA or a placebo. While such a placebo-controlled study is also
underway, considering the patients who are candidates for DHEA treatment,
we have encountered the expected difficulties in recruitment, since most,
not surprisingly, do not want to take the risk of being blindly assigned
to four to five months of placebo. We, therefore, have to work with the
best evidence we are able to develop and that this, as of this time, the
kind of LTA we are in the process of preparing.

While we have no final data yet available, our preliminary f indings came
as a surprise, even to us! We have seen so far, in addition, to the DHEA
pregnancies with IVF, TWELVE (12) post-DHEA pregnancies in women who have
not yet reached IVF treatment and approximately two third of these
pregnancies are ongoing.

Considering who the patients are who we have placed on DHEA, these numbers
are truly remarkable and exceed even our own, most optimistic
expectations. We in principle recommend DHEA treatment only to two patient
groups: The first group is older women, usually over age 42.5 years, with
no prior IVF experience, or over age 40, if a prior IVF experience yielded
only small numbers of good quality eggs/embryos. A second group is younger
women, always under age 40, who have indisputable evidence of prematurely
aging ovaries. Both of these patients groups, without treatment, have, as
many studies in the literature have shown, only a minimal chance of
spontaneous pregnancy. Indeed, most IVF programs will not even accept
patients from either of these two groups because, even with IVF, their
chances of conception are extremely poor.

In approximately 50 such patients, our data show that over 30% have so far
conceived and over two-thirds of those who have conceived are either
carrying ongoing pregnancies or have already delivered, if spontaneously
conceived and pregnancies, conceived through IVF cycles, are added up.

As noted above, these preliminary numbers are truly remarkable and exceed
even our own expectations. It is important to note that these numbers are
preliminary! We will publish an "Update" on our website with final numbers
as soon as those have become available. Because of the importance of this
issue to so many women with aging ovaries, we want to make absolutely sure
that our data are correct in their last detail and we are, therefore,
currently re-reviewing the charts of all DHEA patients.

However, because time is of so much essence for women with aging ovaries,
we have made it a policy to offer data to CHR's own patients, and to the
readers of our website, as soon as reliable data become available to us.
Research is slow and the publication of research data in scientific
journals is even slower. As an example, the report on our index patients,
which led CHR into the research of DHEA over a year ago, will only now, in
September, be published in Fertility & Sterility, the official organ of
The American Society for Reproductive Medicine (ASRM). We are, however,
planning on presenting the finalized LTA of our DHEA experience at the
upcoming annual ASRM meeting in Montreal , Canada , which will take place
in October. Our paper has been accepted for oral presentation for the
first day of the meeting.

Treatment Findings - 8/12/05
For a number of reasons this month's update is quite remarkable and
unusual: A first reason is that, once again, we can report on a very
significant DHEA-related advance which was served to us on a platter by a
patient. Most of you will recall that it was one of our patients at CHR
who brought DHEA to our attention in the first place. This time, it wasn't
even one of our own patients but a patient elsewhere who, through the
internet, had become aware of our DHEA work and contacted us to tell us
about her truly unique history. And in telling us, and documenting, her
history in excruciating detail, she allowed us not only to correct her own
presumptive diagnosis but, more importantly, provided us with convincing
proof of the importance of DHEA for normal ovarian function and, possibly
most importantly, may have pointed us into a direction which will allow us
to understand, diagnose and treat the prematurely aging ovary better.

So what is this all about?
This patient, after a number of years of infertility, decided to
investigate the medical literature to see what else she could do to better
her obviously prematurely aging ovarian function with elevated, very
abnormal FSH levels. Like our initial patient, she came across the one
paper in the literature that suggested that DHEA may improve ovarian
function to a small degree. She took this, however, a step further and
asked her medical endocrinologist to investigate her adrenal glands, which
produces DHEA. And, low and behold, this testing revealed that she,
indeed, had very low DHEA levels in conjunction with certain other low sex
hormones. Her medical endocrinologist correctly concluded that she, most
likely, suffered from an adrenal enzyme defect which blocked the normal
production of DHEA in her adrenal glands and prescribed DHEA substitution.

Even though this medical endocrinologist was apparently wrong in the exact
enzyme defect he had diagnosed (that defect actually results in elevated
DHEA levels), her treatment with DHEA, indeed, corrected, as was well
documented, all of her hormonal abnormalities. Her DHEA returned to normal
levels and so did her production of other hormones which are produced from
DHEA, such as estradiol. In addition, in her first IVF cycle, after
approximately 6 months of DHEA substitution, she produced more eggs and
better eggs and embryos than in prior IVF cycles, conceived a triplet
pregnancy and delivered, at age 39, a healthy son after six years of prior
unsuccessful attempts.

So what does all of this mean?
First and foremost this patient is an experiment of nature which suggests
that low DHEA levels may, indeed, be cause for infertility and, possibly,
premature ovarian aging and that DHEA substitution may reverse some of
these effects successfully.

In demonstrating these facts, this patient provides confirmation for our
DHEA work which has suggested that DHEA substitution in older ovaries
increases egg yield and egg as well as embryo quality. Since DHEA levels
are known to decrease significantly with advancing age, the aging ovary
can be seen as akin to that of a DHEA deprived ovary, where the cause of
that deprivation, as in this patient, appears not age-related but due to
an adrenal defect. In other words, this patient confirms that DHEA
deprivation, if corrected, improves ovarian function. In doing so, this
case validates the treatment of aging ovaries with DHEA.

Maybe more importantly, however, this case also may point towards a better
understanding of the prematurely aging ovary and here is why:
approximately 10% of women suffer from prematurely aging ovaries. They
usually reach menopause prematurely and this condition is familial; i.e.,
it means that if your mother had early menopause, you, as her daughter,
are at significantly increased risk for early menopause, as well. The
diagnosis of prematurely aging ovaries is, as we have repeatedlydescribed
in these pages, at times difficult to make, requires a high level of
suspicion and, at times, cannot be made without taking patients into an
IVF cycle. It is, therefore, no surprise that many women with this
diagnosis go undiagnosed for long periods and are frequently misdiagnosed
as so-called "unexplained infertility."

All of this applied to this patient. She went undiagnosed for years. Only
after her FSH levels became significantly abnormal was the problem
recognized. And with great likelihood, will she experience early
menopause, though she is currently attempting another pregnancy. This
patient was, however, unique in one aspect: she was diagnosed with an
adrenal enzyme deficiency which prevented the normal conversion of
precursor hormones into DHEA.

This, of course, immediately raised in our minds the question whether
there might not be other patients, like her? Indeed, one could speculate
that this kind of an adrenal enzyme defect may be quite frequent. Many
patients then could be expected to have, as a consequence of such a
defect, low DHEA levels and these adrenal enzyme defects may, then,
indeed, represent a significant cause for the premature aging of ovaries.
In other words, the prematurely aging ovary may be an adrenal disease!

Such a finding would, of course, have huge significance for our field
because it would give us, for the first time, tools to diagnose women with
this condition early and then treat them correctly. Moreover, DHEA
substitution may also allow us to delay their premature menopause.

We are looking for volunteers:
However, one swallow does not make spring, yet! We have a lot of work to
do to confirm this very exiting theory and have, therefore, already
instigated a study of young women with proven prematurely aging ovaries.
In order to have very clear study criteria for our patients with
prematurely aging ovaries, we have set strict criteria for patient
selection for this study.

If you want to participate in this study, you have to be under the age of
35 and you have to have had an elevated FSH level on at least one
occasion. If you believe that you qualify, please complete the Prematurely
Aging Ovaries Qualification Form.

Once confirmed to qualify for the study, you will be asked to spend a few
hours at our Center on either the 2nd or the 3rd day of your menstrual
period, at which time you will undergo a so-called ACTH stimulation test.
This is a routine test for adrenal function.

What it means is that you will have some baseline bloods drawn; then you
have a small amount of the hormone ACTH injected intravenously, followed
by two more blood draws at 30 and 60 minutes after injection. How several
of your hormones respond to the injection of ACTH, defines your adrenal
function.

Treatment Findings - 6/27/05
Because women who potentially can expect benefits from DHEA treatment are
usually at an age, and on a time-line, that do not allow for delays, we
have made it a practice to publish on our website periodic updates on
CHR's DHEA experience, as the data become available.

CHR is, of course, pursuing in parallel the scientific publication of
these data; however, the scientific publication process is very slow and
many patients do not have the time left to wait for such formal
publications. For example, the first report on the CHR's index patient,
who gave us the idea to pursue the investigation of DHEA, over a year and
a half ago, appeared in print in Fertility & Sterility, the official organ
of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine (ASRM) in its September
2005 issue. Another manuscript, describing CHR's DHEA experience over the
first year of treatment, will be submitted for publication soon.

In addition, we are presenting our DHEA data on an ongoing basis at
international scientific meetings. For example, Norbert Gleicher MD, our
Medical Director, presented updated DHEA data at the invitation of the
organizers at the World Congress for ART in Istanbul, Turkey in May, and,
just recently in June, at the Annual Meeting of the European fertility
Society (ESHRE) in Copenhagen, Denmark. At both of these meetings the data
received disproportionate attention from the community of fertility
specialists. To keep the local New York Ob/Gyn community informed, David
Bard, MD, presented the data at one of CHR's Grandround events in June.

The following is a summary of conclusions about CHR's DHEA data, as we
presented them at these events, and as we understand them to be reflected
by the clinical experience we have witnessed so far in our patients:

>>DHEA increases in older women oocyte numbers to a statistically very
significant degree.

>> DHEA also increases egg and embryo quality in older women to a
statistically very significant way.

>> DHEA appears to increase pregnancy rates with IVF in older women;
however, while we are observing a very strong trend towards
significance for this finding, the data have not yet reached
statistical significance.

>> We have observed preliminary evidence, which has not reached
statistical significance, and needs to be viewed with extreme caution,
that DHEA may reduce the degree of chromosomal abnormalities in eggs
and embryos of older women.

We are, therefore, to day in a position where we can state with
considerable conviction that treatment with DHEA benefits older women, as
reflected by their IVF- cycle outcomes.

We have also considerable evidence, though not as much as in older women,
that DHEA treatment has a similarly beneficial effect on younger women
with prematurely aging ovaries.

>> We also confirmed the initial observation in our index patient that
the effectiveness of DHEA usage peaks after approximately 4 months of
use.

>> Moreover, we strongly suspect (though do not yet have absolute proof)
that co-treatment with gonadotropins further amplifies the positive
DHEA effect on the aging ovary.

The conclusions we report here are based on what is called observational
studies. The quality of results obtained from such studies is not equal
to results obtained from prospectively randomized and blinded studies. We
have, indeed, instigated such a study protocol for DHEA; however, because
it involves the randomization of patients to placebo we have experienced
considerable recruitment problems into the study since patients with
"older" ovaries are usually hesitant to take the risks of prolonged
placebo treatments.

Our observational study is, however, of rather high quality because it
involves patients pre- and post-DHEA treatment in unselected fashion and,
indeed, also involves by now a large enough number of patients who serve
as their own controls in that they, themselves, underwent pre- and post-
DHEA cycles.

Finally, we are extremely confident of our data because, even, when we
statistically corrected for the increased egg numbers, we observe after
DHEA treatment, we still maintain high significance for improved egg and
embryo quality.

We are on purpose not publishing our DHEA treatment protocols because we
want to discourage self-treatment with DHEA. We, however, encourage
colleagues to contact us with questions and will, on such occasion, gladly
share our clinical experiences in more detail and describe our treatment
protocols.

Patients who wish to consider treatment through CHR should contact us for
a consultation for an appointment. Patients who live outside of the
United States may request an appointment for a telephone consultation
with a CHR physician. CHR is routinely cooperating on patient care with
physicians from all over the world.

Treatment Findings - 5/19/05
The happy mother of a newborn 8lbs., 2oz. boy was 41 years old at time of
her successful IVF cycle in July of 2004 which had been preceded by seven
weeks of DHEA treatment. A prior IVF attempt in June of 2004 had to be
cancelled after lack of ovarian response to ovarian stimulations. With
identical ovarian stimulations and the DHEA treatment, we were able to
produce 8 oocytes and 4 embryos, respectively. To date, five women waiting
to go into IVF cycles have conceived spontanelously.

Previous Treatment - 5/05
DHEA not only increases egg numbers but also appears to improve egg/embryo
quality. Our experience with DHEA has now reached 45 women with previously
diagnosed impaired ovarian reserve. They have used the medication for
various time intervals at a range form 4 to 48 weeks before starting an
IVF cycle. Based on these patients we are so far able to compare 43 IVF
cycles before with 33 cycles conducted after DHEA start. The following
findings were noted:

Baseline FSH and ESTRADIOL levels did not change with treatment
Egg production increased significantly from an average of 4.4 to an
average of 8.6 oocytes (confirming further our previously reported update
data
Eggs after DHEA treatment produced high quality embryos at a significantly
higher rate than eggs prior to treatment (35% vs. 16%).
This latter observation provides the first evidence ever reported that
DHEA treatment not only increases egg quantity but apparently also
improves egg quality. If further investigations should confirm these early
and, therefore, preliminary data, then DHEA could truly be seen as an
"ovarian rejuvenator" by beneficially affecting two of the classical signs
of ovarian aging, poor egg numbers and poor egg quality. Anecdotally, such
an interpretation of these data is further supported by our observation of
a small number of totally unexpected spontaneous pregnancies in women with
clear evidence of diminished ovarian reserve after they started DHEA
supplementation.
Previous Treatment Findings - 3/05
Our experience with these over 30 patients, therefore, suggests the
following:

In women, ages 40 to approximately 44, DHEA, indeed, appears to increase
oocyte yield. This increase is not observed in all women but in a
horizontal assessment it is significant for the whole group studied.
The data is not yet adequate to assess the value of DHEA in younger women,
with evidence of prematurely aging ovaries, but preliminary trends suggest
that DHEA may have similar benefits in these patients.
We confirmed that the benefit of DHEA increases with time of use and peaks
after approximately 4 months of use. Whether the plateau reached after 4
months DHEA use is time limited, and, if so, for how long before a decline
is observed, is unknown.
DHEA appears to enhance spontaneous fecundity/fertility. We make this
statement based on the observation that, in this very unfavorable group of
patients, 4 (!!) conceived spontaneously while on DHEA treatment and
waiting to enter an IVF cycle. This is, of course, anecdotal evidence in
view of the small numbers; however, our expectation for spontaneous
pregnancies in these patients is extremly low.
DHEA use probably lowers baseline FSH levels. We cannot make this
statement with absolute certainty because only one, out of two,
statistical analyses performed on these data showed statistical
significance so far.
We do not know yet whether, in addition to oocyte quantity, DHEA also
effects oocyte quality.
Next Step
The first step is easy, simply complete the Prematurely Aging Ovaries
Qualification Form to determine if you qualify for our DHEA Treatment
Program.

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*FF does not condone or encourage self medicating ~ please discuss with your consultant first 

/links


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## sjc (Apr 27, 2006)

Hope that made interesting reading...Nikki and Miranda thankyou.  Just need to get this right, sorry, so as per study (Nikki's) you both took 3 x 25mg a day?


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

Yes I did. Stopped last week as I started stimming.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I only took 50mg a day as I was under 35 at the time, Sam. I took the full 75mg for a week then got my GP to measure my testosterone. It was normal, but on the higher end of normal so I decided to take 50mg.

I'd start out on 75mg and see how you feel - see if your GP will test you as mine did.

Yes, that study is brilliant! Thank you so much - I'll add it to my store. It's very, very long, but all makes a lot of sense.

xxxxxxxxxxx


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

There is a new study underway, isn't there, Cardiff I think. do we know when they will publish the results? Having said that the one study I am most interested in is my own! Results to be announced with the next month


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Hi all!  Kate had her nuchal scan today with all the tests etc. and everything looks fine!!  She is obviously very relieved.  apparently I am now allowed to buy presents for her, but not the babies.  I am about to visit the Isabella Oliver website....


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Blimey, we're going to have to change the name of this board to the Professional Researchers' Board!

Hi everyone, just a quickie as no way I could do persos to everyone, you gabby lot! 
But just to say Emmachoc - I've also heard that a couple of nana's before bedtime can stave off the restless legs thing

WWIH - hi cycle buddy, you've come to the right place for advice honey!  I suspect you've probably already made your mind up, but it's always nice to talk to others for reassurance and everyone on here is just fantastic and so helpful.  Good luck hon, whatever you decide!

Laura - so pleased the app went well today hon!!

As for me - 3 embies went back in today, 20-30% fragmented which is acceptable to my mind and they were 6,7 and 8 cells each so that's not too shabby either.  Still haven't got round to looking at your old posts Laura but I can't sit here anymore, far too uncomfortable!

Love to all

xxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Nix- congratulations on being PUPO, take it easy now ok xxx


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

Great stuff LJ!  maybe you could buy a bank of stuff and hang on to it till you are given the go ahead.

What day of stimms are you now? I was told they look for a mature egg (ie about to be collected) to through off 1000 E2. and it worked exactly for me on my two cycles - the E2 number was a direct fucntion of the no of eggs. 


re DHEA, I'm tempted but l cldn't see them actually mentioning live births ..... which is surprising as it was all happening in 05.... any thoughts anyone?  maybe Im jsut reading too quickly....

Nix, great news! They can do 3 in france then?  that's good.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

It does mention pregnancies carried to term if you look closely Anna!

They are saying that the DHEA improves egg quality so much that more are carried to term, that ir seems to iron out some embryo defects too.

Nix, PUPO girlie! Well done you! Hope you're our next batch of triplets!

Beach - this is such sh!te weather! Will you ever get that patio finished? Though great weather for planting...

Well done LilJen's sis!


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

oh ok thanks Miranda. 

LJ, correction - meant to say "Throw" off not "through" off. (I am an appalling grammar etc pedant and simply had to correct that.        )

good weekend all!


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Evening chicks,

I'm so happy to be home and it be friday!

Nix - I had a 6,7,8 cell with fragmentation!   More triplets maybe!  

Steph - Yes I did have a 4th thats also implanted but didn't make it to anything. CAn you imagine if it did!  

Mirra - So your still here? I often have dreams about my animals being lost.  I have this horribl one of my rabbits in  a field and a fox keeps chasing them and I can't catch them to get them away for the fox... I guess its some kinda anxiety. I'm sure you will have Bob as soon as he pops out!  

LJ - Did you call be a compulsive worrier few weeks ago?  Relax....... its all going perfectly.  

WWIH - Personally I would say stop and start again (sorry) same happened on my first cycle, I had 3 very small follies and was offered another cycle if I abandoned.  They changed my protocol and upped my drugs and I got 4 good eggs next time.  My worry for your eggies is your follies are not of similar size good chance the big one will will get over cooked by the time the little one catches up so you may be only looking at 1-2 eggs.  If you decide to continue then maybe get your E2 checked see what the level comesback as.  BUT if you will always be going with what if, and you can afford another cycle yourself of course we will all cheer you on.  

XX


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

You lot are very quiet tonight?  Are you having a secret meet and not invited me

Night all..... ah lay in in the morning!


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## Rachel (Mar 10, 2004)

Miranda7 said:


> this is is such sh!te weather!


Here here Miranda! It's pouring down here   The trees are blowing and it looks like autumn outside 

It'd better be nice for my hol in July!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

It's so tedious, isn't it? Nothing but rain and cold winds.  

The girls have gone to their human grandparents for the weekend, as we have a World War Two event in the village - people will be shooting at each other for two days solid. So I haven't even got them to walk - what will I do with myself?

I don't dare go anywhere exciting in case my waters break!

Maybe I'll go swimming.

What are you doing in the rain? It must be hard to think with two wee ones to entertain.

Laura - you having that lie-in?


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## Rachel (Mar 10, 2004)

Very hard as they both LOVE being outside! We might go swimming too or the Wacky Warehouse and pub lunch! Or maybe both   Dh is at home today too


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Gawd, it's so hard to decide what to do - pub lunch and swimming sounds nice!

I guess I could go and do some shopping, but it's not very appealing. I don't get paid till Thursday.


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Morning girlies!

Oh my god it is so dark outside!! I woke up at 7 but forced myself to stay in bed - now wondering why I have just got up!! Things to do today......I am thinking cinema could be good. Need something to take my mind off my follicles!!

Had my scan yesterday, there is a vague possibility that we have a bit of movement on my right ovary - maybe a bit of action on 2 out of my 4 follies (although still too small to measure), my lining seem to have thickened a little too. I was very impressed by the Lister yesterday actually, they really have made up for the terrible experience on Wednesday. Jaya had a full clinic but still came out of an appointment to sit down with me and have a chat through stuff. So I will start the cetrotide today and am back for another scan on Monday - I guess Monday will be make or break! 

I should be feeling so much more positive but after my POF diagnosis I feel as though my worst fears may be about to be confirmed. The nurse advised me yesterday that counselling may be helpful as it must be very hard getting my head around being peri menopausal!! She was being lovely but I just don't want to hear the M word, I guess I must be in denial! 

Rather worryingly i read on my Menopur blurb that it should not be used in cases of POF?? Not sure whether I do or do not have POF but concerned now. I then read that using stimulation drugs in cases of POF can actually reduce your chances of a natural conception (which may at the end of the day be my best hope)! This is a difficult one!

I am very confused!! I guess that they wouldn't put me on menopur if they thought it could effect my fertility - would they??

Miranda - How are you feeling? Maybe go check out a film?? I am thinking that I wish I had tried DHEA, maybe this is something I can do if all fails this time. I actually bought some but as I started IVF so quickly I didnt have a chance to take it.

Yoga girls - thanks so much for the tips - I am going to get myself set up for an evening of yoga tonight, my god I need something to relax me.

Acupuncture - as I am follically challenged I have been having acu 2 x week, had it last on Thurs, thought about doing another today - do you think this is over egging it (sorry!) Just trying everything to get some growth!

LittleJenny - thanks for all your responses, all very lifting, I think it is natural to worry about the egg collection and what they will get but it does sound very positive for you so fingers crossed you will get a full house!! 

Nix - so have you had ET?? Sorry it is so difficult keeping track of this thread, I really need to take notes on posts before posting myself!!!! 

Speak later x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Well we've all been on Menopur, so I can't work that one out! It's meant to be the best for PRs because of the LH in it as well as FSH. It's made from nuns' wee, you know!

Yes, if the worst comes to the worst and this cycle doesn't work, get on the DHEA and other vits and plan your next tx for four months down the line - it's well worth it.
You live and learn, and it's the best thing I did I think.

Jaya's so lovely, isn't she? All you need is a bit of compassion in these circs - it baffles me why other cons don't get that.


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

ha ha - I had better start doing my hail Mary's then!!!!!!

Yeah pretty sure about the DHEA as my next course of action. Lets hope my AF continues and I dont go into full blown menopause! 

Jaya is great - really great - compassion was just what I needed. I finally feel that I have found a good team who I trust to try everything for me and if the worst comes to the worst I will know that I am being given the best advice and bad news will come better from her! Is Jaya into DHEA? I mean not personally but does she approve?  

Have you decided what to do with yourself today!! I have an overwhelming desire to completely pig out (I have been craving choc so much and I hear that it is not good to eat it??) 

Have a lovely rainy day, hopefully we will have an indian summer and you will be able to be out and about it the sun showing bob off!! xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Yes - that long study Sam posted yesterday came by email from Jaya, so she's well in favour.

I don't believe chocolate would stop you conceiving! Not one bit - have some!

No, I haven't decided what to do - I should go in to town and put a cheque in the bank and get some salad stuff really. Booooring - I hate shopping!


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Oh Yes of course!

I have decided to have the acupuncture and I am having a high protein brekkie of poached eggs and grilled bacon! 

Then I am of out into the rain to meet younger sister for I am not sure what!! Just a bit of distraction I guess! 

Miranda - get that salad out the way and then enjoy putting your feet up I say!

I am going to eat a family pack of peanut M&M's!


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Mmmm peanut M&M's!  Just sent Tim out for choc's for me.  He's driving me nuts being so atentive.... He cooksme 'high protein' food about 20 times a day constantly asking me if I want a glass of milk! He's driving me  

Yes had lovely lay in, just had brekkie, still in bed.  Got some jobs to do so must get up now.

Yeah weather is rubbish.  But I have hayfever so its good for me (sorry!) roll on July when my hayfever calms down.  We are meant to be at a wedding reception later but I can't be bothered to go, I look a bit fat and nothing fits me!  So looks like another weekend of me lazing about doing not much!

Ally - Good news on them follies!! Agh we are all peri-menopausal on here so don't fret!


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi all!
Laura - so glad your scan was OK hun and loving the ticker!  
Ally - glad things are looking a bit better for you now. I'm sure chocolate is as good a 'womb juice' as red wine!   i suspect the data sheet for Menopur says not to be used in POF cos its full of FSH/LH which would be high anyway - it wouldn't mean in fert treatment. it can also be used as a hormone replacement type injection I think.
Mirra - Dont' make us wait with Bob! surely he must come soon. I had some nice reflexology towards the end which made my feet feel nice at least  
Ems - hope the iron is going OK   I took one and it was awful. I got some stuff called spatone but I don't know if they would sell it in HK as it comes from natural spring in Wales! Also don't know if you are a tea drinker but its not great for iron absorption - fruit juice much better. Glad all well with the bub   
Nix - well done on those 3 embies   Hope they will be another set of triplets for you 
Rachel - have you started drugs yet for FET?   You are brave when you have 2 little handfuls already! Bet if you've done twins you can cope with anything! 
Nikki08 and sjc - good luck with the DHEA! Be interesting to see the Cardiff study published. I paid to get the original full medical publication by Barad and Gliecher - only 25 women in it so low numbers and the emphasis was on egg and embryo numbers and quality - it quietly missed out any pregnancy and live birth rates. You presume that one leads to the other.  I think the follow up showed better pregnancy and live birth rates. As far as I am aware ARGC have never published anything on DHEA.
LJ - glad kate's nuchal OK and good luck with the stimming 
Merse - hope recovering well and Beach   not much call for the patio in this rain
Kazzy  
Swoo, Button, Bugle   
Dh is doing childcare and watching athletics!   Walked in to the lounge at end of extra time of last nights footie saying I was supporting Turkey cos of jinemed girlies! Then Croatia scored , then Turkey and then penalties - all very exciting!
Love to everyone
Nicks


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Looks like Greece are getting in on the action too!

Fertil Steril. 2008 Mar 3. [Epub ahead of print] Links
Premature ovarian failure and dehydroepiandrosterone.Mamas L, Mamas E.
Neogenesis IVF Centre, Athens, Greece.

Since the first successful birth at our centre following treatment with DHEA in a patient with premature ovarian failure (POF), all subsequent patients with POF underwent the same treatment protocol. Receiving very encouraging results (FSH level was decreased in the first five patients and all achieved pregnancy), it was decided to study the action of DHEA for a reasonable length of time and in a larger number of patients to confirm the effectiveness of this particular therapeutic regime.

NW


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

We're supporting Turkey too! Pete swears he saw one of the Jinemed docs acting as official doc to the team. He was the guy who did our induction that first day but we didn't see again - don't think he's a fertility doc.

Glad to hear your DH is carrying out his responsibilities! Is he getting good at it?

Laura - ooh, nice to be waited on hand foot and finger!

Gawd, I'm itchy. Pete's done my cast, but quite a bit of plaster is still on me! Yikes. Had to get him to cut the plaster out of my lady garden - charming! And it really shows what odd baps I have - must get that sorted when I have several grand to spare...


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Mir- wow a cast of you pg, that will be good.


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

Oops I fell asleep on the couch and just woke up...over 2 hours later! Must be the drugs right? plaster in your lady garden   I am wide awake now   I think that mental image will stay with me for some time   Mir it will take more than two grand to sort me out


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

It's quite impressive, I have to say! It's drying at the mo - a little too Beryl Cook for my liking, but it'll be a conversation piece...

Beach - did you manage to get anything done today? Or is it as rancid up there as down here?
The local carnival and a few other events are on today - what a washout.

Nikki2008 - I love naps. The trick is just getting them the right length so you feel great after, and not manky.


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Mir- not done anything, m/c just  after midnight


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

Beachgirl   thinking of you.


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Beach -  Hon I'm so sorry, well, I'm glad things have come about without you having to go into hosp. Hope you are resting up.  At least this will hopefully allow you to put an end to this horrible time and let you move on with what ever is next.  

Mirra - You do make me laugh!

Nicks - I'm supporting Turkey too!


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Thanks Laura


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Beach -how are you feeling?


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Laura- just so empty and heartbroken, can't believe it's all over


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh, Beachie.   I'm so sorry. Yet I'm pleased for you that it worked out naturally, as you wanted.

I so bloody wish I could reach up north and give you a huge hug.

xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Me too beach, wish i was could do something, hate being so useless.

Is DH there looking afer you?


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Beach - there are no words.  I have lit another candle for you here. 

Scan today went ok - oestradiol doesn't seem huge to me but doc says it is rising nicely, will probably go up more rapidly in the next couple of days and all is going fine.  They can now see another follie so I have 12 and most of them are a very good size.  My endometrium is apparently 8mm - I said that was good to know but wasn't it irrelevant?  They said no, since it is another indication of how developed the follies are or something like that.  

EC scheduled for Tuesday. They gave me a slight boost in my final stim dose tonight as a push to get the smaller follies to catch up in time for Tuesday. They also told me I can't go home by myself on Tuesday cos of the sedation, which is a bit annoying.  I said that I wouldn't be going home alone, since I would be accompanied by a taxi driver, but that doesn't count.  DP, therefore, is going to have to come out of work to get me!

Boobs seem to have grown to the size of Brazil.  I can't stand it - please tell me they go down!!  Feel a bit puffy generally to be honest.  Also, bit CM-y (the very thin clear stuff or a load of egg white) - feels like I am wetting myself every so often.   

love to everyone xxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Thanks Mir , DH is wonderful, he was with me when it happened last night and took care of everything bless him

LJ- I've had one lit all day too

Laura- hows the triplets?  Have they got names yet?


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

This will make you smile.... Tim has been thinking of names.. he likes 'Wolfgang'!?    As if these kids won't have enought to deal with in the playground with there ginger curly hair! 

LJ - You will be grogy and sore... you will need someone home with you for a while after too.  Although in Turkey I felt completely fine after a short snooze but that was pretty heavy sedations, the lighter sedations in Barts I felt quite rough after.  Make the most of being cared for!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

You must both be absolutely heartbroken. He sounds a wonderful DH.  

Hi LilJen - good to hear those follies are coming on. You should have a bountiful crop for when you need them!

laura - how about Bertolt and Amadeus for the other two?


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

K, you are HAMMERING me repeatedly at Scramble!


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Mir- I need a distraction

Laura- mmm, wolfgang, is there anything Turkish instead?


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Mirra - Please don't give him any ideas!!

Beach - Tim liked the Turkish word for Fire, but i can't remember what it is!

I kinda like old fashioned names, but my little brain can't really think about it at the moment.  I did read a great study today stating that there is now a 96% survival rate for trips and they see no reason for people to be offered reductions... maybe I'll print that study off and read it all the time!  Not all of them are as positive!


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

I think Jinemed for a boy - he can be Jin for short.

Oh god - maybe not; it'll just be Jin-ger in the playground.

My bro-in-law said it was quite clear from the scan that the twins were both ginger like him .  I have to admit I think it will be so - my sis is a blonde so not going to overpower it.  If only she'd had my almost black mop....

I'm not really good with names - tend to be quite traditional, although DP has a unique name and I like it (at least I like it now - when we first met I did ask him what his parents were thinking...). Anyway, you can go for traditional and still run into problems.  My ex boyfriend was a doctor and one of his colleagues was called Harry (short for Henry in this case) Shipman.  Oddly, a few years ago, it became a little unnerving for patients to be treated by "Dr. Harry Shipman" and he ended up changing it. 

Beach - still no words   but candle is burning brightly for your bright future.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Maybe print it out to take with you to all appointments?

I'm just making our dinner - feel absolutely without appetite, but got to eat I guess. I seem to remember both dogs going off their food just before giving birth. Wonder if it's the same for humans?

I've just made another pathetic stab at Scramble Beach. I am rubbish!  

Ouch - Harry Shipman ain't a good name for a doc!


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Mirra - Have you started ripping up paper and putting it in a pile in the corner of a room!?

I think I may make a folder and print out all the positive stuff for me to take to appointments and to just read, although so far noone has been anything but positive on the medical front.  Just Rooz has prewarned me for my specialist appointment. 

LJ - Red hair is a recessive gene so has to come from both sides of the family, have you got any ginger people in your family? If not them twinnies aint gonna be blessed with hair of fire!   Although Tim has black hair he does has some ginger aunties/ uncles so we are possibly on for some ginger babes!

As for names I would like to have Noah as one of there 2nd names as thats Tim's nephew who died's name, I'll have to run it past Tim's sister first though.


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Beach - so sorry you had to go through that. Glad your DH is looking after you. At least you can grieve now. big hugs   
Mirra - wow cool POP kit! Hope you get the plaster out of your lady garden before labour
Nicks


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Laura - sadly there are some redheads around in our family but not of the bright red variety that my bro-in-law has.  There is a definite risk!!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

No, I'm not tearing up paper yet! I'm getting Pete to build me a giant whelping box instead.

Nicks - the same people do lovely little pop things for baby hands and feet! Asda did paving stones last year you could decorate and put handprints in, but don't seem to this year.

LilJen - I keep scratching my head and wondering if my family have the gene, but can't remember anyone. I still think Bob'll have a ginger 'fro.


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Beach - I am so so sorry - I cannot imagine how you are feeling love. Snuggle up and take care of yourself & your DH.

Miranda - are you going to spray the pop? My friend did it gold - looks pretty good! So do you have pop dreads in your nether regions?? 

Laura - Did you eat your body weight in chocolate?? I am just about to see off the rest of the M&M's, after I have eaten the rest of the pan of chicken risotto (OMG mmmmm!) that my DH cooked plus some strawberrys and ice cream!! That should do for the next half hour or so!!!!!!

LittleJenny - even better news re your eggs well done you! 

God I am bored of the footie!! Just when I need to be distracted the bloody Euros are on! I wouldnt mind so much if we were in it! All I want to do is eat, lie on sofa with wheatbag and watch crap on tele!! 

A x


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Ally - I've had a rather small bag of minstrals!  Very disappointing.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

God, I am so suggestible! Had to go into the choccie cupboard and get myself a pile. Scrumptious.

Anyone following Big Brother this year?

Ally - no, the pop dreds are out! My wee garden is spruce again. I don't know whether to spray it or not...


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

I've watched a couple but not really into it yet...I normally get more interested when there are fewer in there.


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Laura - small bag of minstrels - now that is just unkind!! Was that your bloody unthinking DH - the one that tries to feed you all day and do nice things for you - out of order!!!

Miranda - glad to hear that you are all sorted on the dread front - you wouldn't want to give the midwife a shock or bob for that matter!! To spray or not to spray? Maybe you could gild it with real gold leaf and display it on a plinth?!

Sorry about making you all hungry!!!!!!!!!!!! I am officially a feeder....

BB - I have tried my hardest to stay away from it this year, the people are such losers, mind you I would watch anything rather than FOOTBALL!! I have been quite into Shipwrecked this year - esp the third island - I love Sha/Cha - she's a real doer - really gets on with it. I think this stuff is made for teenagers, I'm 35...oh dear.


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Yep I love shipwrecked too!  I want to go on the 3rd Island too... much more chilled!

PLease note that Tim is only trying to feed me protein... not tasty little tit bits! Like eggs and milk!    Not tasty chocs and crisps!


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Laura - Well he needs a serious talking to then!! Has he not read the chapter is Zita Wests book about triplet pregnancies? Surely he realises that you need a chocolate bar for each baby each day! 

Ahh so you are a Hawk then?


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

yeah, god why were these shows not around when i was younger, I'd have loved to have spent 3 months there! I love Sunday tv, Hollyoaks and shipwrecked.... I'm such a teenager at heart!


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

*Beachy* - so sorry hon,  it must have been so awful for you even though you have been expecting it to happen - so glad that you didn't have to have intervention though - sending you huge  and I really hope life brings better luck to you and your DH from now on, in every way


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Well I had a nice time at Paul's folks until this afternoon, when MIL made a few choice comments re IVF - quite innocent on her part but they really pushed all the wrong buttons with me (typical MIL - she has an uncanny knack for it somehow) and my mood plummeted - so much so that started crying when I was driving home a few hours later and I had to stop the car and have a good long cry all over DH in a lay-by  loads of sad/painful/angry stuff that had been simmering for a long time came out and I feel better for it - I have been very down since last BFN but putting on a front/bottling it up - not good. 

Going to crack on with organising our trip to Jinemed tomorrow and try to get my  head back on - think we will be going on 30th June so just over week away now.

*Emma* - hope restless legs are better soon 

*Mira* - got your address and will send disc soon as I can - love the plastered avatar pic!

*Laura* - got your address too - Wolfgang!??  Noah is a great name and a lovely idea - hope you've got both flavours going on in there  Glad Tim is looking after you well 

*LittleJen* - cheer up hon, you have no reason to feel down, (apart from being full of all those rotten hormones) - it all sounds like it's going really well  On the following link it says estradiol should be 200-600 for each mature egg: http://www.fertilityplus.org/faq/hormonelevels.html#female - glad Kate had a good nuchal scan, enjoy your present-buying! 

*Nix* - thanks for the add on ********  - have sent you a virtual plant (can't remember which one now!  ) hope you like it! Congrats on being PUPO  - embies sound great and I really hope they will stick around with you for the next 8-9 months!    When is your test date?

*WWIH* - welcome to the thread  I'm sorry you have had only 3 follies show on scan  - we all know how upsetting this is and what a shock  I agree with the others - it's a hard call but you need to follow your heart - it does only take one  and so if you really want to carry on then you should, especially if you could afford to pay for another go yourself should this one not work. If you feel this NHS go will be the only one and want to give yourself the best shot possible, then I would agree with Laura - it might be better to cancel and try again with a higher dose of stims next time and if you can talk to your consultant about it, a short protocol cycle - with no downregging. For some women the downregging drugs just shut them down too much (many of us on this thread have found this) and a short protocol cycle brings a better response. Good luck whatever you decide to do, and let us know how you get on   

*Button* - hope embies are still doing well and that you are able to go to blasts   

*SJC* - thanks for posting the stuff re DHEA - I had read it before but had lost the link long ago - very interesting  Did you book for a London consult with Jinemed docs in the end?

*Ally* - really hope those drugs will get your follies growing    and glad you are now happy with your clinic now that you are dealing with a warmer doc - good luck hon 

*Nicks* - I'm rooting for Turkey too! - does anyone know when the final is? think it might be just before we go, which is a shame as would have been a great atmosphere in the city! Expect it still will be though, if they win! 

*Beachy* - need you to send me your address hon 

Love to all and sorry if I've missed anyone,  really knackered so need to get to bed - night night 


This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.UK or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2008)

Beach -   Your DH sounds like a gem.  I hope you can now grieve for your little one.  I wish there was something I could do to make you feel better but I know from experience it just takes time    Thinking of you   

Mira - Ouch, plaster of paris in your lady garden    Beach & Steph are whipping me a scramble too - I don't even bother trying to beat them now, you're my competition!

Nicks - Glad all is going well with EA.  Thanks for the tea advice - I only drink one cup a day but useful to know.  I've been taking the tablet with orange juice and fruit as GP said not to take it with grains otherwise it won't be absorbed - didn't know that until she told me.  Had my first night for about 2 months without restless legs last night - I'd almost forgotten what a full nights sleep was like!

Nix - Congrats on being PUPO - I'm reckoning twinnies for you hun    

LilJen - EWCM is good - my guesstimate is for a baker's dozen at EC   

Ally/Laura - Don't talk to me about choc - I've just can't seem to stop eating it at the mo.  One bar just doesn't satisfy the craving so I find myself having to have two!  I justify it by telling myself that I'm not drinking at the mo so aren't getting calories from that - mind you, I'd have to have been drinking two bottles of wine a day for the calories I'm getting from choc at the mo  

Sorry, still no bump photo - I did mean to do it yesterday but I forgot.  I'll try and do it later today when DH is back - he's gone off early for Dragon Boating.  I was going to watch but it's so bloody hot here there's no way I want to go and melt on the beach, so I'm staying in the confines of air conditioning today.

Love to all those I've missed  

xxxx


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2008)

Steph - Sorry hun, I forgot you and then saw you had posted just before mine.  I'm sorry to hear about MIL's comments.  As we've all said on this thread before, unless you've been through IF people just don't know how hurtful some comments can be and I think it's especially true of the older generation.  IF treatments just weren't around or as advanced when they were having their babies so they have very little experience of it.  I think all of us at some point have just tried to carry on as normal after a failed cycle, but taking time to grieve for what we've lost is really important.  Planning the next stage is a good focus -     that this is your last TX    

xxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Morning all!

Blimey - the sun is shining, whatever next?

Steph - I'm sorry your MIL came out with a load of guff about IVF. Good that you had a good cry though - it has to come out at some point and you've been so strong.
It would be great to be in Istanbul on final night! We watched footie on the telly in a restaurant while we were there Besiktas or however it's spelled (the one coached by that scottish guy) and the atmosphere was great. They loved Pete, him being Scottish and donating them this guy, anyway.
Why we can't have a great atmos here at footie games I don't know - it all seems so threatening.

Emma - whoo! a good night's sleep eh? Crikey! I've forgotten what that's like too! Pete has woken at 5.30 for the past week and I can hear him trundling about.
Yep, we'll have to just keep an eye on each other when it comes to Scramble! No point trying to beat those two!

Ally - I avoided BB last year, but I'm thinking this year I might need something to watch at night (probably them all sleeping) when Bob wakes. I prefer it with fewer in there - it's such a cacophony of noise while they're all shrieking away. What is it with the screaming like a toddler? Why do young girls think that's ok?  

Laura - you need to get in proper supplies! No more sending Tim out, as he is evidently turning into What Not To Eat lady!


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Morning,

Woke early as belly was empty so had to eat!

Mirra - Yeah TIm is interested in feeding the babies... not pampering me!  He evn confiscated a bag of fizzy sour sweets I was eating the other week.... caused a HUGE row and he won't be touching my goodies again!!  

Ally - All ready for Shipwrecked?  I may go out today as not been out since I got in from work on Friday if I do I will expect a full report from you!

Beach - How you this mrning hon?

Steph - I'm glad you had a good cry, I think you needed it, I have noticd you've been pretty down lately, hopefully now you are all fresh for you next cycle.  Oh footie in Istanbul is fab isn't it.... they all hang out of the cars and fly the flags, really good fun.... not sure what happens if they lose though!  

Emma - Howmy chocie monster?  I did dragon racing few weeks ago was really fun, ached the next day though! 

XX


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I had cravings for sweet things early on - as long as you're getting all the other stuff too I can't see it matters.

I want Pete to get up so I can hoover! There's plaster everywhere, despite our best efforts yesterday. And I want to make a pavlova for my stepson and his stepchildren coming over.

I don't even have the dogs to walk as they've gone on their holidays - what will I do with myself?

Up! Up! Up! I'm so impatient...


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Yeah Tim is asleep too.  I'm thinking of going to the shops to buy some bigger clothes? I hate shopping though, I get all hot and flustered!

Are dogs back tomorrow?

I'm looking at rabbit hutches at mo... need to get a new one with a run when we move, at the mo they just have a hutch on balcony and the balcony is there run.... can't decide if I take a risk and try to get a run to attach to itor just buy a whole new thing togther?  Hmmm.

X


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Why not join the Freecycle group for whichever area you are moving to? People are always giving away hutches and runs when they stop having rabbits.

You'll be able to get a few more rabbits with a garden!

I hate clothes shopping too. Peacocks do good cheap mat wear - I swear by them. But i always did that in my lunch hour - a dedicated shopping trip's far too stressful.

My cast still isn't really dry! had to pick myself up by the baps and put myself outside in the sun.


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

Steph - sorry you found your MIL comments upsetting   

I am feeling sooooo lazy, just don't want to do anything, scan tomorrow and another private consulatation to see if I need IVIG aswell. Getting very fed up with watching my diet, milk and brazil nuts are ok but I really struggle with pineapple juice, so you think chocolate is go for us?


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Morning all!

Laura  - I am going to try and get my **** into gear and get out and about too - need to do something about my lack of PMA - but dont worry I have shipwrecked on record so should be able to update you!! 

Steph - I am totally with you on the MIL comments. When mine discovered we were having problems back in Jan, she said in a slightly aggressive way - "well I really would appreciate it if you could keep us in the loop as it is very hard for us" I thought thats sensitive - I didnt really think it was for me to make them feel better when I was so devastated!! I think at the end of the day noone knows what to say and often they put their feet in it, thats why we all chat here - WE all really understand!! Good to have a cry though, I feel a big one coming on, feeling very negative and anxious for last few days - I NEED A BIG SHOUT AND CRY - COME ON TEARS!!!!!!!!!

Really nervous about my scan tomorrow at 9am - have had no twinges or anything - I cant get it out of my mind. DH is getting very frustrated with me moping around the place.

Ok this chocolate talk now has to stop - I am trying to get back on the healthy eating wagon today! Muesli and strawbs for brekkie - no choc today!!!!!!!!

speak later x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Nikki - just swallow some selenium tablets and stop worrying about pineapple juice! It ain't worth worrying about - brazil nuts have selenium in a far higher concentration. You're better off doing something you really like, something relaxing, than fretting about food at this stage. I used to swim, and pick out names for twins while I threshed up and down!

Ally - maybe she meant it was very hard to know how to help and support you if you didn't tell them?  I know, I know, maybe she didn't. Perhaps you could ask her though, what she meant by it being very hard for them? Let her work out what she means and put her on the spot instead!


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Ally  - I'm struggling to move so watching shipwrecked!  

Nikki - I didn't have one drop of pineaple juice this cycle... or brazils for that matter.  I honestly believe that they will stk or they won't.

I've had a row with Tim.  We were meant to to doing something together today, a walk or something, but he has gone out on his bike again.  Yesterday he was meant to be finishing off the hallway, but once again he went out on his bike.  We were gonna go out for some dinner as well yesterday, I got all ready and he didn't turn up til gone 9 so I just made myslef a microwave meal.  I really thought things would be diff being preg but obvously not.  Looks like everything is going to be down to me to organise.  Sometimes I really doubt why we are together.  I wish I had some friends too, I do have a few that are local but they don't really understand me since all this IF stuff started, most of them just get on my nerves.

Not sure what to do with my day, I may go sit in the park, not in a shopping mood,or maybe I should finish off the Hallway, try to be productive.


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## Button76 (Dec 30, 2006)

Afternoon Ladies

I see you have managed to fill a fair few pages in 2 days.

Miranda - Love the idea of a POP.  Hopefully with summer having made a return today you will be able to dry yourself off properly in the sunshine!  Glad you have managed to clear up the lady garden in preparation for Bob's arrival.  

Beachgirl - Big hugs to you.    I hope you are starting to feel a little better after the m/c and that you now be able to move on and grieve.

Steph - Big hugs to you too.     I am going to the outlaws for lunch today and it's always a horrendous thought.  My MIL has as much subtlety as a sledgehammer.  Hopefully she will be well behaved today as am also feeling a bit emotionally fragile!

Laura - Hope you sort things out with Tim.  Make him buy you loads of chocolate to make up for it!!!!!!!!

Ally - I hope your scan tomorrow shows some more good news.  I'm glad that you had a better experience at the Lister on Friday it really does make all the difference.

Nix - Congratulations on the 3 embies.  Fingers crossed for you.   

LilJen - You sound like you are doing great on the follie count.  Finger crossed 12 follies = 12 eggs.

Apologies to anyone I've missed.

I am booked in for Blastocyst transfer tomorrow.  Feeling VERY nervous about it now.  I just wish they could grow me a baby in a lab they seem to be doing a better job of it than me.  I am also already of knicker watch which is just ridiculous, feeling a bit like AF is coming but I'm sure it is just down to the Cyclogest...

Anyway, enjoy the sunshine everyone.

Button


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Ach, for God's sake! What is the matter with that Timothy fella!? Can't you puncture his tyres or something?

Come to Dorset - I've made pavlova, and we can sit and eat that all day.

Button - oo, blasts! The holy grail... You'll be up the duff this time tomorrow, you'll see!


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## Button76 (Dec 30, 2006)

I wish I could tell whether I was up the duff by this time tomorrow. my clinic says 16 days post ET for testing.  Madness, I will never make it that far.  That is also going to be my birthday, best or worst one ever...


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

PUPO dear, PUPO!

You have an excellent chance - be positive!

Awww, my cat so wants to be my baby - I had my pop bump outside drying in the sun and he crawled inside and laid down!

he's being really clingy - think it's cos the dogs aren't here and he's wondering if he's next to go.


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Button thats silly, Blasts are already 5 days old... I'd give it a week then start the testing!

Mirra - I wish I could come sit eat pavlova with you Mirra!  That would be lovely.  I get so lonely sometimes.  One of my mates did call yest to see if I fancieddoing something today but I said no as had plans with Tim... maybe I should call her back?    But that seems like I'm making her second best and only want to see her because Ive had a row with Tim!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

It depends how you say it I guess? You could say Tim's been called away or something?


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

She knows Tim very well she won't be fooled, she will know its a sunny day he has buggered off.

Ally - Had to turn off shipwrecked, they were going to Kill chops, couldn't watch it, I love that pig.... how can they do it??  I'm crying over it now would you believe!!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Ah. Guess you're stuck then! Bum.

Silly man. We keep saying we'll do something and not doing anything! As usual.


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

At least you have a garden to sit in, I'm stuck in a messy flat which is half being decorated! Right I'm gonna stick myself some lunch in and then have a tidy... eat my lunch and then by then I will have decided what productive thing I am going to do!  

No movement today?


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Mirra - Very amusingly your pic hasnt updated yet but the words have so its says about your cat int he cast but in the picture your still in it!!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hee! You can't see him very well anyway.


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Afternoon all, just back, it's so windy out there isn't it....been to church this morning then had a carvery on the way home before calling in to see my parents, not going out again now.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Nice carvery? They can be so nice and so nasty! 

Yup - it's sooo cooold that wind - unbelievable for late June.


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Carvery was ok, but plates a little too small and not cheap at £10 each.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Bah! There's a place nearish us that does such a good one - and you know it's good as people are queuing out the door. Loads of really nicely prepared food all piled up. But I swear apart from there I haven't had a really good carvery anywhere.

Did you have lashings of wine with it? That takes the sting out of a small plate, I find.


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

No, it was meant to be a cheap lunch so just had a lager, will open a bottle tonight though


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Mmmm were talking food.  Carvery's are usually rubbish for us veggies... although I do love a nice roast spud, espcially if I'm not washing up!  Beach you should have taken 2 plate up! Pretend the other one was for your granny!  

Went shopping, bought some bio-oil and a couple of big teeshirts.  Not really very successful! Ah well got me out of the house I guess. Such a nice day but as soon as I leave the house I sneeze and my eyes puff up.    I don't like sneezing it pulls my tummy and I worry I'm gonna upset the babies.  

Guess I'll have a snooze then put the covers on the bed and then it will me Monday morning again, god I can't face work at the moment.


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Evening All

I eventually got my **** into gear and went out for a walk with Ben (he hates being referred to as DH!!) About 2 mins down the road I thought I was going to burst into tears, I am so on the edge at the mo, a mixture of the huge amounts of Menopur I am pumping into my body every night and the worry about whether I will or will not ever have a child of my own! I literally found it hard putting one foot in front of the other, but managed to walk up to kensington and buy a book and then lie in Hyde park for half an hour before deciding that I would rather be at home - god I have turned into a recluse! We had some lovely BBQ stuff for dinner so at least I feel satisfied on that level.

Laura - Shipwrecked I know I know - I cannot believe that they killed Chops - I could never have done it - she was so tame. So what are we thinking about Brie?? I think she looks like a complete pain is the ****. Do you remember that freaky girl Sarah that was on it - she was so wierd x Re your mate who asked you to do something - why dont you organise something for next weekend? Be proactive - dont wait to see what Tim is doing. I say next weekend as I doubt your up for a night out at the mo - maybe do something in the daytime next weekend?? I know how you feel about work - I am so not up for it at the moment.

Miranda - I cannot believe you made a pavlova that is so impressive - one of my fave puds, I havent stopped thinking about it all day! Hows your cast any decisions on the final finish yet? 

I am very nervous about scan tomorrow, I am certain the cycle will need to be cancelled, I have had no twinges, no cm of any kind, and just don't feel like those follies are doing anything. I know its silly because there are other things we can try but I feel such a panic about it as i am scared I am going to go into full blown menopause because of my diagnosis. I am feeling so angry with my dr who withheld an fsh reading 2 years ago of 63 as he obviously didnt think it important enough to share with me. I feel like my eggs are disappearing as I speak. I really really really don't want to do DE. Do you think that as I have 4 follies there is a chance i have a few eggs left? Can the number of follies increase??

So sorry for rambling on again - just finding myself in a bit of a panic and the hormones aint helping!

A x


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

OMG did they kill chops?? I turned off when they started discussing it.... they didn't actually show it did they?  Yeah Brie is a little posh 'aren't I important' type... she won't last!

Well done for getting out, even if it was only for a while.

On this thread we don't worry too much about the figures, we've had some really good results when the dr's have said no hope. I was told I need donor on my first cycle.... see they don't know anything!  Your realistic... you are not hoping for 10 eggs, but with  follies you have the chance of 4 eggs, which is pretty good, Mirra only ever has had 4 eggs in a cycle and in my last cycle I only got 2 eggs!  Each cycle is different so even if you don't get a BFP this time next time you may get lucky.  Sarah had 2 cycles of noresponse and then a cycle where she got about 5 eggs all on the same dose. Things do change from month to month.  Really they should have told you your fsh at the start so you could deicde if you wanted to go on or wait for  abetter month.


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Laura - cheers hon - thanks for that its support like that that gets me through to the next day at the moment. 

Yes I am afraid that Chops is a gonna - I really don't understand how they could have done it - it was so tame, its not like they were actually starving or anything. 

I am sick of football - I just want to watch something to take my mind off things and it is just football football football, at least if we were in the Euros Ben would be more likely to go out and meet mates and watch it!!!!!


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Ally    really hope that it's good news at tomorrow's scan.

Evening LB + 3 xxx


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## popsi (Oct 11, 2007)

just a really quick one

Ally  just to let you know a girl at my hospital had 4 eggs collected.. 2 fertilised and put back in and she had a BFP today... do you dont need 20 eggs for success x

Mir - where is bob !! thought he would be here by now

Laura - glad your 3 little ones are doing good hun

Beach - so sorry you had to go through this horrible time xx thinking of you

well as for me .. i am on day 10 of dr .. af has arrived yesterday so i am now officially pure evil !!! i feel so sorry for DH right now as he not gettin an easy time living with me   

Steph .. good luck for turkey  

take care all and lots of


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Boring, int it? All this footie - night after night after night. I'd rather be in labour!

Ally - it's not the numbers, at all. Don't punish yourself with thoughts of doom - it's too easy to believe the 'experts' but the numbers on this thread tell the real story of those who are prepared to try all the options and take advantage of the research.
If it does all go tits up this cycle, you'll know lots of ways to make the next cycle work better. It's a shame most of us have to go through two or three cycles before we work out a winning formula (or just get lucky!)

But actually, three cycles is the average for ordinary people, not poor responders, so we're doing exceptionally well on this thread. Keep the faith - four follicles is actually great and shows promise even if the whole cycle's been stressful beyond belief.

It COULD work, it really could. And if it doesn't you'll be armed to the teeth with knowledge about how YOU want your next cycle to go. I can't stress enough that this is your money, your body, and you call the shots. If I'd gone back to the Lister I would have insisted on seeing the same cons all the way through, for instance - it's no good them treating customers as if they were standing at the deli counter with a numbered ticket in their hand.

Take back control - and relax about the outcome of this cycle as there's nothing you can do now to increase your chances. Believe it will work and it very well might!

Hi Laura, Popsi and Beach!

xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Evening Mir- how did your day with stepchildren go?


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

They just popped in really - they went to the war event in the village, came back and had pavlova then went again!

I thought I'd sent the dogs away for nothing yesterday, but today was full of gunfire and tank fire, so I'm glad I did.

I walked them tonight and saw some of the signs they'd put up and got really annoyed by the poor spelling and apostrophe use! You'd think if people went to the expense of making signs they'd get them checked, wouldn't you? Think I'll send the author a copy of the book Eats Shoots and Leaves...

Have you cracked open that wine yet?


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Oh the wine went ages ago...just finished of the whisky and fancy another


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Have you got any more booze in the house? Garcon!


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

You drunk then Beach?   Have another if you fancy one hon. 

You still here Mirra 

Hi Popsi!

God I can't believe its Monday tomorrow, and I have a horrible day.   How come weekends go so quick and weeks go so slowly?

Think I'm gonna head to bed, shattered not had my usual nap today as the phone kept going everytime I tried to get my head down.  

XX


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

My phone only goes when I'm either having a nap or serving up dinner! I'm convinced I have a webcam fixed up in here somewhere...


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Laura- my phone always goes about 10 mins after I lay on the settee for a sleep.... 

Mir- we have more wine than an offy...just having a rum and coke then bed for me.

Night all xxx


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

I'm tired but i don't want to go to bed as then it will be Mnday morning.  

I should switch the phone off when i get in bed.... but it never rings any other time!!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I'm on my way... get the corkscrew out!

Oh, you're going to bed! Lightweight drinker!

Night, Beachie xxxxxxxxxxx

I agree, Laura, because the phone never rings any other time you forget to switch it off at nap time! So irritating...


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Right night girls.  Noddy off so much sleep now.

Chat tomorrow.

XX


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Night dearie! Sleep well

xxx


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Miranda7 said:


> I walked them tonight and saw some of the signs they'd put up and got really annoyed by the poor spelling and apostrophe use! You'd think if people went to the expense of making signs they'd get them checked, wouldn't you? Think I'll send the author a copy of the book Eats Shoots and Leaves...


Yeah that kind of thing really annoy's me, to....   

Karen hon   , I hope you and DH are coping ok

Ally - it's normal to feel all over the place at this stage of tx, the drugs are a bugger for making you lose it. And as Miranda has already said, it ain't over! Stay  honey 

Hi to everyone else, sorry no more persos but am knackered! I've been busy last few days girlies, my 2 lovely cousins have come to visit from London, they're 17 and 18. It was a last minute thing and I almost asked them to cancel cos they arrived the day of ET and I thought it would be too much, but I'm so glad they came! They're both so funny, I haven't laughed so much in ages, almost to the point where I sometimes forget that I'm on the 2ww, which has got to be a good thing. We've decided to name the embies Danielle and Ellya (after my 2 cousins) and then we were trying to think of a name for the 3rd one. As you may or may not know, black people are well known for burdening their kids with the most ridiculous names, just because they sound "nice". After some discussion, (Chlamydia, Vagina and Candida were some of the suggestions, amongst much giggling) we're calling embie number 3...... Embryona! Well we thought it was funny anyway, which I think says more about how silly we are than anything else, but there you go!

Gotta go to bed now as going to take the girls into Paris tomorrow. Trying to figure out a way to get to Montmartre without having to walk up 5 million stairs.... answers on a postcard please!!!

xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh I LOVE Montmatre! You can take it slowly, looking in all the shops, can't you? It's been years since I went tho - it's probably quite different than I remember it.

Love the embie names!   Yes, I was discussing the black name thing with some of my dog walking aquaintances before I knew Bob was a Bob. I read that in America if you get saddled with a black name - ie a made-up one, you're sentenced to a life with low wages, etc. Amazing, eh? And bloody depressing, too. With any luck Obama will shift some of that ground-in racism.

Though it's so tempting to come up with sonething original. How about Nicoliana? Nicorette? Nic-o-teen? Or you could have Finderella, Fartoosh and Fabulosa F*ckwit!

xx


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

Ally -   for scan today    

Button -   for ET   

Nix - Love the names of your embies.  IKWYM about initially worrying about having guests straight after ET but as you've said, they can be a great tonic.  Have a lovely time sigh seeing with D, E & E!   

Hello to the rest of you - just gonna have some brekkie


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Nix- I loe Montmarte too, we've only been once but stumbled across a little cafe with a really bad woman serving us who couldn't understand that we only wanted onion soup for lunch, I'll have to send you the photo of her...didn't think we'd get out of the place in one piece and we were the only people in there.

Morning Emma- what have you been up to today?


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

Morning Beach - Been to the gym then meet a friend for lunch.  On the way back I stopped off in Starbucks and had a decaf dark mocha frappachino - on my word, it was lovely    Am now thinking about doing the ironing   What are you up to today?


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Emma- I've just done my ironing and DH is tkaing today off work so he's going to clean out the garage


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

How are you feeling?  How long do you think you'll be off work?  Nice to have DH at home - if your DH is anything like mine, the amout of clearing out he does is in direct proportion to the amount of tea/coffee I feed him, i.e. the more tea/coffee the better he works.  Men can be simple animals sometimes.


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Emma- just empty at the moment, it's strange knowing it's all over now and so quickly too if you know what I mean, bleeding has eased off so just taking this week off (only work Mon-Wed anyway) and will probably go back next week.

Once he gets started he's really good but it's getting him motivated and if he's not in the mood then like anyone will procrastinate all day...he's just had to pop to work to pick his work stuff up so watching Jeremy Kyle and waiting for some deliveries to come.


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Morning ladies of leisure out there!
Sun is out here. Beach - hope you are OK today and you get to do a bit of your garden. We have a fab new patio and pergola I'm waiting to enjoy when summer finally comes!   Hope DH looks after you today  
ems - glad coffee was good   I developed a taste for bacon sandwiches at work - thankfully I left soon after!   Still got thunder thighs from vegging for 3 months due to 'hernia' pain. Wish I could have been more like Mirra  
Love to all  
N


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

Beach -    You will feel better eventually, I promise, but it just takes time.  Do you have any idea of what you'll do next, i.e. adoption, or is it too soon.

Good 'ol JK - I do love him!

Nicki - I can't believe you have thunder thighs - you're tiny.  Sadly I seem to have developed a taste all food and I can't seem to stop eating!

Mira's been quiet this morning - do you think Bob's ready to make an appearance?


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Knowing Mir I have no idea, maybe she's gone for the dogs a walk.

Would love another go at IVF but can't face the heartache and pain so will look into adoption after xmas, might consider having immune tests done just in case we manage to naturally get pg as want to make sure a m/c won't happen again if I can prevent it.


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Ally - I'm really sorry you are feeling so rough; I think the hormones send us all over the place and you're still getting over the not-so-great treatment at your clinic the other day.  If there is anything I have learned here it is that everyone is very different.  Some people don't get any side effects at all from stims; others swell up, feel sick, get terrible headaches, produce masses of CM etc. etc. etc.  It doesn't really mean anything except as it relates to you.  To be honest, I was a bit worried that I seemed to be sailing through as well - felt nothing until day 9/10 of stims except the odd headache - and was convinced nothing was happening.  My acupuncturist then told me that, in her experience, people who don't notice anything tend to end up having very good cycles!  We are all unique so you can't judge your response from other people's side effects.  If you look at our pregnant ladies it's just the same.  Miranda had no morning sickness and Emma suffered terribly - neither was any the less pregnant!!!  Also, as Laura says, a lot of the now-pregnant ladies here have been told they needed DE at some point.  My sister certainly was.  Anyway,     for your scan.  

Beach - hope you are bearing up. Taking some time off is a good idea.  

Emma - I hate ironing - it is the worst job!

Nix - hello PUPO lady!      Glad it was ok with the visitors!

Button - good luck for ET.  Let us know how it goes.  You might well have frosties as well from that great crop of embies. 

Karen -   hope you are ok.

Miranda - Bob still not putting in an appearance?? 

Popsi -    

Steph -   hello there and start thinking positive for Turkey!!

LauraB - are you still in the happy post-scan stage or has it morphed into anxiety about the next one yet  Hope you are keeping all the positive info you can about having triplets.    

Well, the CM has lessened but boobs are still gargantuan and ovaries feel stretched (especially the right one which is the 8 follie one).  Did trigger injection last night and EC will be tomorrow morning. Am utterly petrified.  

Kate is off on holiday to sunny Wales today and plans on treating herself to a single small glass of wine.  My mum is being annoying and rang me to ask me if I would advise Kate not to indulge in a solitary unit of alcohol.  I said I no since (a) I am not the pregnancy nutrition police (b) I think one glass is perfectly safe and (c) while you want to look after yourself, you can go over-the-top in terms of what might be possibly "bad for you" during pregnancy.  Mum had a bit of a strop.


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Hello Girls

Oh beach - I really feel for you, I know its not the same for me but I can completely understand that empty feeling. 

Just back from my scan at the Lister - not great news I am afraid, still no response so Jaya reduced my Menopur  from 450 to 150 in the hope that this may have some effect (apparently sometimes follies take fright when bombarded with high doses? Wish I was convinced), I will go back on Thurs for final scan - if nothing is occurring then we will cancel. Just had a big cry on phone to mum which helps a bit but now got to go into work which is the last thing I want to do! I dont think i would feel so bad if I didnt feel like I had such a small window of opportunity, being told that I was POF has really messed with my head and made this whole process so much more traumatic.

Nix - loving the names for your embies - embryona - excellent - I am sure there was a girl on Americas next top model called that!! 

Miranda - You had better get posting if you are there - everyone thinks you are in labour!....Are you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All others PR's thank you for all your good lucks.

Button - hope ET went really well for you today.

xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I'm still here! Calm down, dears.  

Ally - Jaya's right - you may find your follies grow a little better with a lower dose. And you'll save a fortune too! Don't worry too much about the timing - your FSH came down before, it will again.
Don't go into work - phone in sick I would. It's a lot to process. 

LilJen - you're right, a glass of wine can help immensely and pregnant women can have a few units a week quite safely. I heard they only see fetal alcohol syndrome in the offspring of alcoholics - think you need to sink lots of spirits to harm a baby!

Beach - I know what you mean about not being able to face it again. It's such a huge deal, a cycle of IVF - you need to know in your heart you can handle another cycle.

Emma- eat! I've completely lost my appetite lately - I think your body tells you what it wants, so there must be a growth spurt happening in there right now.

Nicks - you are so tiny I can't believe you have thunder thighs! It's prbably been so long since you've seen your thighs they look strange to you!

xx


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Ally - I'm really sorry that the scan wasn't as good as you'd hoped.  However, as Miranda says, it could be that your follies respond better to a "softly softly" approach.  Remember that some people need to stim for much longer than others for their follies to mature so you could find that you are still fairly early on in your cycle.     

NicksW - I'm sure your thighs are far from thunderous but I can empathise with you feeling that way even when it is not the case!  My usually tiny body seems to me to have swelled up massively with the stims and, although in reality I know it's just a few pounds of water retention, it feels horrible!

Miranda - I'm really gald you agree!  Kate was really careful to cut back on alcohol in the run up to IVF and hasn't touched a drop since she started stims in April.  I really feel that one glass at this stage is going to have absolutely no impact whatsoever.  Mum is just being annoying - she sanctimoniously said she didn't touch a drop when she was expecting Kate and me and we were both healthy, so I pointed out that her own mother (my grandma) smoked and drank her way through 2 pregnancies and produced 4 equally healthy children!!


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## Nikki2008 (Jan 11, 2008)

Just a quick one, had my scan this morning and it's looking good, I am responding quite well it seems, 12 follicles so far, EC on Wednesday, it seems all so quick this time. Will see my private consultant in an hour, want to discuss if I need IVIG, my NK cells are really high and steroids might not be enough.


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Oh Nikki - well done on your 12 fabulous follicles.  Hope the consultation goes well.


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## beans33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Hello, I'm Beans33 and i've been cancelled today after 9 days stimms because of poor response.  Although I think five is good! I am bit disappointed as wasn't prepared for this to happen.  My FSH was 7 and although i've been on hormone replacement for 5 years due to severe PMS I thought things were back to normal.  (obviously not!!) Anyway they are starting me on 300 next time in the hope it will help.

Hope you are all ok and things are working out.  I will read the previous posts to catch up so I don't miss anyone out.  

Helena.

ps Nikki well done on 12 follies!


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Hi Beans!

Very sorry to hear about your cancelled cycle    I have a few thoughts... 

I agree that it's not clear why they would cancel with 5 follies since that seems like a perfectly normal response to me.  Maybe one of the other ladies can help on that.  I can see that they might feel they should have put you on a higher dose but surely it would be worth going to EC and giving you a chance. If the cycle failed they could put you on a higher dose next time.  Did they scan you at day 5 or 6 and review your dose?

I am not sure what hormones you were on before but I would have thought you need to be well clear of those before starting on IVF.  Is this something you have discussed with your clinic?

150 is really a very low dose so you have loads of leeway in terms of increased dose and taking it up to 300 (which still isn't anything like the highest dose) could make all the difference as could a change in protocol.  

Did your clinic test for anything other than FSH?  It may be that your AMH (another indicator of response) is a little bit lower and that you need a bit more a boost than 150 to get the best possible results.  FSH is useful but there are other tests which can give a bigger picture and, even if it's nerve-wracking, it is useful for your clinic to have as much information as possible so that they can give you the right treatment.  

A lot of the ladies here have been through a cancelled cycle so they know just how you feel.  I do think that you have every reason to be optimistic that a change in dose or protocol can get you the response you need.  

Please don't be too disheartened.  

Anyone else have any thoughts??


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## beans33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Thanks littlejenny, I was on Oestrogen implants with a mirena coil.  The oestrogen i haven't had for 2 years and the coil was removed Jan 07.  I had a bit of endometrial hypoplasia (can't spell) due to the oestrogen not being completely out of my body and that was Jan - July 07.  I was then put on progesterone tablets to control the bleed.  I then stopped all before commencing treatment.  Nobody at the clinic was interested in my side of the story as they discovered my DP had low motility so they just concentrated on him.  Also my baseline scan showed lots of follicles and with the FSH they concluded the dose was correct.

Anyway i'm having FSH re tested and a few other things so we will try again.  Thank you for the advice and we'll see what happens.  I will ask about those other tests as seeing my GP (who had ICSI herself) tomorrow.  I'm also going to ask about trying naturally as don't want the 5 to go to waste!

Helena.


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

quick thoughts -agree totally with Jenny. 

5 wasn't bad  AT ALL and with more stimms you could do very well. 

unless you wanted sextuplets of course. ;-)

keep smiling, and definitely have bms - tough they'll tell you not to, blag blah blah

xx


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## bugle (Dec 26, 2007)

Hi there

Beans - 5 sounds a fairly ok number? Did they have to cancel?

Ally- good luck for next scan, hopefully reduction will make them kick into gear.

LJ well done on the 12 follies - perfect!

beach - am really sorry to hear your news 

Laura - so glad to hear scan went well!

Mirr - I like the picture!

Steph - good luck with organising the jinemed things for next week! It's amazing how quickly things come around!

Hello to everyone else - nicks, emm and all others!


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## cath J. (Nov 1, 2007)

Hi All

Sorry I've been AWOL for a while but as Beachy knows I have had a really tough time. There are lots of new people on here so sorry if I am not quite up to speed yet.
I have had a very complicated miscarriage which ended up in me losing too much blood and having an emergency D&C last week (nearly 3 weeks after starting to bleed). I just wouldn't pass the sac and it caused a few problems. Anyway, I'm on the mend now and apart from feeling very tired from loss of iron, I'm getting there. 
Laura - Wow triplets, how amazing is that. I am so envious (in a nice way), I am just so desperate to see a heartbeat or 2 on an ultra sound. I've had so many scans over the last few weeks I think I could now be a sonographer. Well done you, I hope you have a fantastic and healthy pregnancy. 
Nicki - Your little girl looks so gorgeous, are you completely smitten?! I cried when I saw the picture, but that's me at the moment! 
Beachgirl - As you know I am thinking of you and just know exactly how you feel, it's so awful 
Steph - good luck with Turkey
Allegria - fingers crossed  
Mir - it will be any day now I'm sure of it, I hope that you're not getting too fed up 
LJ - Hi - I see your sister is expecting twins, lucky girl! I'm glad it's all going well. Your response to stimming was good - that must have been a relief.

Hi to everyone else.
Sorry to be a pain but could someone please give me info on Jinemed. Is it cheaper than over here? How long would I have to go out for roughly? How does it work when you get back to UK with scans etc.? Not sure I'll be able to persuade my Dh to go abroad as he's being difficult enough about as it is re. doing another cycle anyway (it's alright for him, he already has 2 children).

Love
Cath
X


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Helena - if I were you I would be quite annoyed that your clinic was so dismissive of your concerns on the recent hormone treatment.  Even if it isn't relevant, you clearly have not had it satisfactorily reviewed.   I also think they they should have had an idea of how your were responding earlier than day 9 so that upping your dose should have been considered.  I definitely agree with Anna -   is definitely in order.  Don't let those possible follies go to waste!!!  

Anna III - good to see you!

Bugle -   hope all is continuing to go well. 

CathJ - good to see you  .  I am so sorry you have had such a rough time and I do hope you are doing ok.  I am so pleased you are looking into Jinemed - I think it sounds like a great place.  I'm not the right person to give you any info but I'm sure someone else will be happy to help.  It's good that you are looking into the next steps.


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

jenny, that was a RUDE picture. 
im shocked.


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Anna - sorry, I don't believe you - anyone who has been through the indignity of fertility treatment is unshockable!!!


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## Linzxxxx (Mar 9, 2008)

Hi Ladies

Hope you dont mind but im new to the thread. Ive just been diagnosed with POF at 26. My AMH is 0.7 so as you all prob know im gutted  
Just started taking DHEA and wondered if anyone knows how much Wheatgrass I should take to lower my FSH so I can think about starting IVF?

Love and luck to all xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Linz - first of all  .  It must be very hard to be advised at 26 you have POF.

I think Ally may well be the one to advise you best since she got her FSH right down but I'll share what I know.

I think that wheatgrass has to be taken in the context of an overall healthy diet.  Not sure how much to take since powder/tablets vary but I think you'd be hard pressed to take too much (although it can give you the runs) so go for it!  But really focus on eating properly generally too - the idea is to get your body in tip top shape so that your reproductive system can function as well as possible.  Remember that your reproductive system is not necessary for your survival so, if your body isn't nourished to perfection, it will be one of the first areas where the body "compromises" to concentrate on more important things such as your respiratory or circulatory system.  

Best of luck on the DHEA and I hope your scan/consultation go well.  Remember that you are very young so even if you manage to just squeeze out two or three eggs, the chances are they will be of great quality.    

Have you considered acupuncture?  I have heard that younger people with suspected POF can get really good results from this. 

Other people may have other ideas for you.  Good luck.


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## *Lollipop* (Feb 1, 2007)

Hi linz1982,

Just wanted to echo what Little jen said its true about the body and survival if your body is not functioning properly...Good luck   ...acupuncture lowered my fsh so worth a try.x

Beach - thinking of you sweetie....  

Steph -  

Mir - Phew...havent missed it then....take care honey.....


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## Linzxxxx (Mar 9, 2008)

Thanks Ladies, I love this site you are all so nice!!

Me and DH have started on the multi gym and cross trainer and im eating fish and chicken for most of my meals. Does that sound about right?

I did try accupunture, but the bloke was a little pervy   So I cancelled. Trying to find somewhere more local

thanks ladies for all your kind words and support. I couldnt have got through the last few weeks without FF 

xxxxxxxx


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Evening Girls

How are we all doing? I am on the sofa with a wheatbag again after my reduced Menopur dose (gosh its so much easier only doing 2 vials & soooooo much cheaper!) Come on you follies - you can do it!! Jeez it is so tough being follicly challenged!! So Thursday is the next challenge - next and final scan x

CathJ - nice to meet you, so sorry you have been having such a terrible time, you sound like another FF brave lady, you should be very proud of yourself. It sounds like you are making plans which I always find so therapeutic when things have not worked out well.

Beach - how are  you doing this evening?

Little Hen - how are your eggies tonight?? Are you ready to lay them all tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!

Laurab - how are things?? Having a nice chilled evening? Unplug/ turn off the phone if not!

Nix - how was today? Get your feet up girl!

Miranda - are you still there?? Any twinges at all?? The weather is changing - do you think this is a sign

Beanz - I am so sorry about your cancellation - looks like i may be joining you later in the week although i am praying for a bit of growth in next 3 days!! Make sure you make the most of the follies and start planning how to get the best out of your next cycle.

Linz - How lovely to see you back in touch, sometimes you just need a bit of time out, its all so exhausting! As you can see from my signature I am in a similar situation to you (although I appreciate I am older and prob seem ancient to you!). I think i did reduce my fsh temporarily to 14 (back in march) I didnt do too much wheatgrass, I have been using something called 'Progreens' which contains wheatgrass and a lot of other goodies (i was told about this by a nutritionist at Zita West), Agnus castus tincture (40 drops per day - although not during treatment), acupuncture 1 x week (no herbs although maybe thinking about using them again), yoga once a week, zita multi vit and dha, lots of water, no drinking, healthy food - phew it has been a really interesting 5 months  I do think you have to look at a real lifestyle change though, my diagnosis was a real wake up call. You also have to understand that as you are young you have a much higher chance to conceiving naturally so do not give up completely on the BMS as you may just hit the jackpot!!

My highest was 63 and it is now 39 so I guess i must be doing something right. I think it shot up when I got so anxious about starting IVF! Planning to get it right back down again tho - 3 little letters aint going to beat me!!

Having said that most girls will say try not to focus too much on the figures, the most important thing seems to be finding a consultant who is FSH friendly who will look after you. I had to kiss 2 toads before I found my princess - the lovely Jaya at the Lister!! 

P.s No-one will mind you popping along - you are soooo welcome x

Alegria - thank you so much for your gorgeous PM - want to respond and do it justice and so drained from todays events i will do in the morn x but thank you it was lovely to read this afternoon and i had a little cry! I will be back to you asap x

Button - thanks for good lucks 

Emma choc - hows the eating going?

Has anyone heard of IVM (In Vitro Maturation) being used for those with POF? I know it is a very new process and used in those with PCOS. They take the immature eggs out of the follicles and mature them outside of the  body - could this be good for us poor responders?? We think we have the eggs in there - we just need to work out how to get the little buggers out!!

Thank you all for keeping me sane x


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## Jumanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Linz - Ally touched on something else really important. Stress!!  It is the hardest thing given what you are going through, but finding a way to de-stress, be it yoga, meditation, reading crappy magazines or whatever,  is so important when things are not functioning as they should. Again, if your body detects extreme stress, it doesn't know this is because you are ttc; it may assume you are stressing out because your tribe is being threatened by a pack of lions or something.  Not a good time to get pg so your body switches off your reproductive system.  Creating a de-stressed environment is vital when you a bit "challenged" in the reproductive area.  I know it's galling when other people can be stressed out, eat rubbish, smoke like chimneys and get pg easily but if that doesn't apply to you then you have to concentrate on doing all you can.  And luckily there are things you can do!

Ally - I'm ready for tomorrow.  Very anxious but just want it done now.  Feel ok now - ovaries a bit achy and boobs still gargantuan but overall I'm doing well. 

I'm wondering where Miranda has got to...


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Oh yes - stress - our biggest enemy - and i forgot to say no caffeine from now on Linz!! 

Also another interesting bit of research i am doing at the moment (I sound like a professor) is looking at the connection between Adrenal fatigue and POF. I did an Adrenal stress (saliva) test and it came back saying that I had adrenal fatigue and that my andrenal glands were not functioning properly. If your adrenals dont work then you dont handle stress properly and your hormone balance all goes out of whack (this is really simplified). I am taking Cortico B5B6  (by metagenics) and a B complex vitamin (biocare) for this but apparently it takes a few months if not longer to get the balance sorted. 

I have had a few traumatic events over the past couple of years (relationship, sick relatives, death of granny) and that coupled with working really long hours, then burning the candle at both ends contributed to burn out and adrenal fatigue. 

Hope this helps x


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## Linzxxxx (Mar 9, 2008)

Hi Ladies

Thanks for your repsonses. I know what you mean about the stress, im trying to calm myself by doing other things. My and DH have started cycling too. Find that a brilliant way to unwind!! im on CD40 at the mo, AF comes and goes as she pleases. If I was to start IVF, would they give me something to make AF come or would they make me wait? Im sorry im new to all this, got loads of questions!!

Having a folicle count scan tomorrow. How many should I expect? Will the NHS touch me for IVF if my AMH is low?

LittleJenny - good luck for tomorrow

Ally1973 - you remember me!! My AMH is the same as yours I remember now. You and Miranda were the ones who gave me hope to keep on trying! Im not going to give up, I just want to give my body the best chance it can have to give me what im after!!

What kind of foods would you ladies advise to keep me healthy? Im on the fish and chicken, salads and stir fry, fruit and veg, anything else you can think of thats any good? I know ive gottta give up the take aways   gonna kill me.... but hopefully will be worth it 

Thanks for being there ladies xxxxxx


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## Linzxxxx (Mar 9, 2008)

Your replying faster than I can type  

Ive had alot of stress lately. 
My mum had a cyst the size of a football on her ovaries, so she's just had a full hystorectomy at 49, my grandma fell over the other day, had a scan and found out her kidneys arent functioning properly. My DH's auntie and uncle have just been diagnosed with milignant (excuse the spelling) cancer, his grandma has just her third lump of skin cancer cut out her face and his great aunt has been diagnosed with leukemia. So you see all in all, 2008 has been a right bummer of a year!
Things need to start looking up. I dont tend to stress out to much, I dont drink tea or coffee. I smoke a little but am cutting down hoping to stop soon but find when I hear the next bit of bad news, they help! As for drinking, im going to leave it for little and not often.
I hope im doing all the right stuff

I never felt so alone when I found out I had POF, but with FF I know im not to give up!!  

I love you guys


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Where is Miranda - what do you reckon??

Laura - are you watching the triplet programme tonight??

Linz - of course I remember you hon - i couldn't forget you x you have gone through so much of what i have been going through it is all still very fresh for me. You can try something to bring on AF - I was given Primulot N (sorry if spelling wrong) but it didn't work for me, therefore consultant said I would never get another AF, but I did and have had them since April. Antral Follicle count - this differs for everyone - mine showed 4 which is pretty low, but there are girls on here with 2 or 3 who have conceived. Also it can vary from month to month by a couple of follies (i think - someone correct me if I am wrong). Not sure about the NHS and the amh level - my PCT was not great with me - this is why I had to go directly to the Lister and pay through the nose!! 

With a diagnosis like POF you are bound to feel terrible (look back over all my posts from day one) and you will still have your bad days, but on those days i just settle down with the laptop for a good bit of therapy. Whatever the outcome of our endeavours we will stay sane and one day we will be mums!

Keep coming with the Q's and we will do our best to answer them xxx


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## Linzxxxx (Mar 9, 2008)

One more for tonight...

Does anyone have hot sweats? Ive suffered with them for years!! They went away a few months ago, then clomid bought back the night sweats. Since stopping clomid, ive had nothing, but once again they have returned after taking DHEA. Anyone else had this?? xxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

The lack of DHEA in the body seems to have something to do with the adrenal glands, if you read that study a few pages back. Hmmmn...

Liljen - I'm still here, never fear! Just so tired after gardening and dog walking. Think I may retire early tonight...

The stress thing is a biggie - I found the only way to relax during a cycle was to be on holiday - the only way, as I'm a  bit of a stress monster.

Linz - I sent you a link to here, then clicked on unread replies and here you are already!   Glad you found us - we'll take lots of care of you. What a crappy year you've had.  

Ally - hopefully just simmering those eggs instead of boiling them will produce results.

Gabs - hello! How the heck are you dearie? Sold the house?

Cath - lovely to see you again! I can't recommend the Jinemed enough - your DH, if he's been to the clinics here with you, should be as impressed as mine was - the equipment seems newer, you get much more care and monitoring and there's so much more flexibility about drugs and treatment.

A breakdown of costs is roughly: £1,500 for IVF or ICSI, with assisted hatching or blasts included if you need it. £750 for drugs - though I think all of us on this thread have paid another £500 as we're on such high doses and they'll throw everything at it to make it work. But it's great to agree a cost for drugs beforehand, as we all know how that can go. I think Laura and Steph and Ophelia all had Clexane and stuff too, but the price didn't change. 

Then it's £750 for a nice hotel near the clinic or £1,100 for a four star with two pools a bit further away. I went there, as I wanted it to be a holiday, and loved it. That price is for 18 nights B&B for two. Some people choose to do the first week in London, but it's actually more expensive!

As for when you return, it's best to check if your doc will px you gestone and arrange an early scan if you hit the jackpot - I had a lot of trouble arranging all that, but others have been lucky with their GPs.

They're doing consults in London next month, which cost £100, but from what others have said they're worth it as they're pretty thorough.

Beans - I can't understand for the life of me why they would cancel you with five - that's a good number! Still, it's done now. But there won't be anything up with you, producing five on that low a dose I don't think.. It's such a shame to cancel a cycle when you've built yourself up to it emotionally and mentally.

Nikki08 - well done on that mamoth follie count! 

Anna III - hello!

Have I got everyone who posted after my last message? I bet I haven't...

xxxxxxxxx


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Cor Miranda - that son of yours really wants to stay in there doesnt he?? Anyway night night sleep well! 

Linz - I havent had sweats as such - i had them a little while back but I think it was toxins coming out because I drank & smoked too much! Or maybe it was night sweats? All I know is that since i started my new regime I havent been hot at night once. The DHEA may take a while to settle down - it will be making changes to your hormone balance but I would advise that you get your dhea & testosterone (is this right girls?) levels tested now and then again in a little while to make sure it doesnt rise too high, if it goes too high you may want to adjust your dose. I think your gp can do this?

x


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Um... apparently not Ally! My waters have just broken.

Called the hospital and I have to sit here wearing a pad for an hour, then ring them to tell them what's on it! Ew.


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

Miranda, GOOD LUCK!!! we are all thinking of you and sending you the best. xxxx.


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM SO EXCITED FOR YOU! 

How are you feeling?? Ready to go Is your bag packed? Is DH there?? 

Am i panicking more than you!

Woo hoo - Bobs en route!!! Good luck honey!! 

xxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

I've gone cold! I'm panicking! Eek! Just straightened my hair and packed a few more things.

Pete's ironing himself a shirt.

If he arrives tomorrow he'll arrive on his ex-wife's birthday!  

xx


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## popsi (Oct 11, 2007)

MIRANDA - OMG !!! i cant believe that you have come on here to tell us !!! this is soooo exciting bob is on the way honey... good luck can't wait to see his photo xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

You're my PR pals! of course I'm telling you!    

Bah - there's so much of it. Hope the starchy irish matron I just spoke to doesn't tell me off for changing the pads. I'd be sitting here in a pool!

TMI? Probably.


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## popsi (Oct 11, 2007)

mir.. i think you need to go honey xx how far is the hospital


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

Miranda, be calm - WE ARE TOO EXCITED FOR YOU TO BE TOO. 

send you our love. 

Anna


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Glad you straightened your hair and that DH will be presentable for the birth!! 

BUT.......probably best to get going - forget about us for tonight!!! We can speak to you tomorrow!!!!!!!

So much good luck to you all! 

Looking forward to seeing the little fella - feel like i know him already! 

Go for it girl! 

xxxx


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## ophelia (Sep 27, 2005)

OMG Miranda!!! Good luck hun.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

ta, you lot! But I'm stuck here for a bit - no contractions yet!

Hi Mrs O!


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## ophelia (Sep 27, 2005)

Hi Miranda, any contractions yet or just the water broken? I'm so excited for you!!  Here's to an easy birth. 
I'm off to Jinemed next Tuesday. Sorry I haven't been on here for a while, too many people to catch up properly.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

No, not one contraction! And I was so tired earlier - with any luck I can have a sleep before all that malarkey...

Yay for going back to the Jin! Send my love to them all.


----------



## ophelia (Sep 27, 2005)

I will. Off to bed now. Promise to post a piccie of the little boy when you're back home and settled. 
Night night


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Just off to the hospital for monitoring, but I'll be back in an hour or so. They let you go 96 hours before stepping in if there's no contractions.

I'll be back soon!


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

OMG Miranda - so excited for you  - Good Luck sweetheart!!!   

Are you back from monitoring yet? Or have they kept you in? Hope you manage to get a kip and then it's all go with a nice-straightforward birth 

Ooooh can't wait to hear you are all OK and see baby Bob for real! 

Steph xx


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2008)

Mira - OMG, good luck!!!!

Hello to the newbies and everyone else   am still waking up, will be back later for personals  

xxx


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi all 

boy you lot can't half rabbit!! 7 pages since I last posted!!

*LittleJen* - good luck for EC today - hope you got lots of tip-top quality eggs!    Do they freeze them straight away?

*Cath J* - so lovely to see you hon - I am sorry that you have had such an awful few weeks with your MC  - my heart goes out to you  The Jinemed website is on the folling link: http://www.ivfturkey.com - if you look under IVF COSTS you will see a breakdown of costs and what is included -and a timeline for treatment - let us know if you need any help and mabe come join me and others on the Jinemed thread? http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=137113.225 Good luck with talking to your DH about it 

*Anna the Third* - great to see you are going to Jinemed - am sure the weather will be fab in September 

*Alegria* - hope you are doing OK on the 2ww - good luck! 

*Ophelia* - nope not quite started packing - have started sorting out stuff which needs to be washed/ironed etc though - need to dig out some nice cool sun dresses methinks! Flights booked - am flying out on the 30th June and returning on the 20th July. They were nearly £700 for both of us - ouch! 

*Beachy* - you're whooping my **** at Scramble! 

*Emma* - hope you are feeling well!  

*Laura* - you OK hon? Is Tim still doing his Gillian McKeith impression?  hate thinking of you down at the weekend - give me a call if you ever fancy getting together for a coffee/chat hon - I'm only half hour away, if that! 

*Nikki *- good luck for EC on Wednesday - hope you get some fab eggs    how did you get on re having the IVIG?

*Ally* - sorry your follies are taking so long to grow - I hope the lower dose may coax them out as Jaya said and that Thursday shows some action  Good luck hon!  Come on follies, you can do it! 

*Button* - congratulations on having two blasts on board PUPO lady  - 16 days post ET to test is madness - 14 after EC should be accurate! Which clinic are you at? Wishing you lots of luck and hope the 2ww doesn't drive you too 

*Popsi *- glad you got your AF - when do you start stims? Good luck! 

*Nix* - love the embie names (especially Embryona!  )  - hope you enjoyed Montmartre with your cousins  Are they still with you?

*Nicks *- is your hernia all better now? Hope so! 

*Beans* - Hi and welcome to the thread  - love the doggy pic!  Really sorry you got cancelled - I know the feeling and it sucks  I agree with the others that they probably should have scanned you earlier and adjusted your dose then - 5 follicles while not a great response but is not so shabby either given the dose you was on, and it would have been feasible to go ahead.  Personally I have never had more than 5 visible and would go ahead on 2! Was that an NHS attempt? - I really hope that next time you have a much better time of it on a higher dose and get lots of great eggs    And good luck with trying naturally  with those follicles this month!!   

*Linz* - Hi and welcome to the thread  sory you have had such a rough few months - hope you have lots of better times around the cornr  Good luck for your pre-treatment scan today - I really hope that you are able to find a way forward with IVF... also with lowering your FSH - it sounds like you are already doing all the right things - keep going with the cutting down/giving up smoking - it will really help (stopped smoking myself 2.5 years ago after 30-40 a day habit and feel so much better for it! hate to think what my FSH would be if I were still smoking  )  Hope you can find a lady acupuncturist near where you live    As for the wheatgrass, I took tablets - it said to take up to 21 a day but I found if I took more than 2x4 a day I got the runs, but of course everyone is different ... and if you get plenty of fruit and veg you needn't worry too much about wheatgrass.

I also get hot flushes occasionally (but not too often since I started having acupuncture) - hardly ever at night funnily enough - just in the daytime usually when I'm a bit stressed, like when I've just arrived somewhere!

*Bugle* - hi hon  - hope you are well! 

*Lolli* - hi hon  - how's the house-selling going? 

 to anyone I have missed - love to all 

Have felt a lot brighter today, booking flights etc and getting **** into gear for next Monday, I do love to have a plan!  My DH is an absolute STAR, he always knows what to say to cheer me up - love him SO much!! 

Steph xx



/links


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Evening/morning!

I'm back - God, but that took a long time!

Thanks for your text Steph - wasn't sure whether to reply it was so late!

Going to have a hot choccie and go to bed - sooo tired. Still no contractions - with any luck they won't have to induce me.

Morning Emma!

xxxxxxxxx


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

Night Mira - glad you got back and hope you get a lovely rest tonight and no contractions until the morning


----------



## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

That would be good! Just waiting to stop flooding the place before I tuck in.

It's all so exciting! I'll know if he has a ginger afro soon!


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

*TEAM PR*   *PR Ladies awaiting next treatment:* *AbbyCarter*
just had follow-up after 3rd IVF - planning 4th IVF? - due to start ??/??/08*Anna the third*
Planning 3rd IVF(?) - due to start ??/??/08*Bankie*
2nd IVF at Lister - consultation 27/03/08 - hoping to cycle in May/June '08*Betty1*
looking into lowering FSH after BFN on 3rd IVF in August '07*CathB*
just had follow up - decision re 4th IVF maybe on Short Protocol, or possibly donor eggs?*ClaireP*4th ICSI - Lister - appointment in July, treatment in August 2008? *Inconceivable*Undecided - consulting with LFC/Lister re next treatment/considering donor eggs*Juicy*3rd IVF - Lister - June or July 2008 *Latestarter*Currently undergoing cycle monitoring at ARGC before 1st ICSI*Lins1982*Diagnosed with POF - currently trying to lower FSH/reviewing options for IVF/td]*MillyFlower*4th ICSI cycle - maybe at the Jinemed?*Nikki2008*4th ICSI cycle due to start June - first scan 23/06/08*Odette*4th IVF - Barcelona IVI - this time with DE - May '08? *Ophelia*8th ICSI - Jinemed - - flying to Turkey 1st July 2008*Sammie*1st IVF tested negative 20/02/08 - next appointment 29/04/08*Swinny*4th ICSI due to start mid-May 2008 - currently on Cyclo-Progynova to regulate FSH - next test ??/06/08*Stephjoy*4th ICSI - (after 3 ICSIs/2 cancelled ICSIs/1 Natural IVF/ICSI)) - Jinemed - flying to Turkey 30th June 2008 *Vonnie*3rd IVF - Royal Infirmary, Edinburgh - due to start July 2008
*PR Ladies currently undergoing treatment:* *Alegria*2nd IVF - Lister - SP - currently on OCP before baseline scan/start stimms 02/06/08 *Ally1973*
1st IVF - currently stimming - EC ??/06/08*Button76*
1st IVF - EC 18/06/08 - 11 eggs - ET 23/06/08*Droogie (Heather)*
1st ICSI after TESA/TESE - currently downregging - start stimming ??/06/08*Popsi*2nd IVF - DHEA trial at IVF Wales - started downregging 12 June 2008*LittleJenny*1st cycle to retrieve eggs for freezing/future use - currently stimming - EC 24/06/08*Minttuw*3rd ICSI - currently stimming - first scan ??/06/08*Nikki2008*4th ICSI - currently stimming - EC 25/06/08*When Will It Happen?*1st ICSI - currently stimming - EC ??/06/08*PR Ladies who need to update after undergoing treatment:* *Carole69*2nd/3rd ICSI - EC was 17/04/08 - waiting for update *Team PR members currently on 2 week wait  :* *Button76*
1st IVF - ET 23/06/08 - 2 blastocysts - testing ??/07/08*Lainey-Lou*3rd IVF - SP - ET 19/06/08 - testing ??/06/08*Nixf01 (Paris Nix)*5th IVF - 15 eggs - 6 fertilised - 3 put back ET 20/06/08 - testing ??/07/08 *Team PR members currently recovering from a miscarriage: * *Beachgirl*3rd IVF - tested positive 28/04/08 - no heart beat found 02/06/08 at 9w4d  *Cath J* 3rd IVF (2nd ICSI) - Care Northampton - no heartbeat found 14/05/08 miscarried 9w3d *Lincs Jax*5th IVF, with IVIG - Care Nottingham - 4 eggs but no fertilisation  converted to FET with one fighter frostie - tested positive April '08 but levels fell - miscarriage  *Loui5e*3rd ICSI - Jinemed - tested positive but miscarriage 8w4d  *Team PR members currently recovering from a negative or cancelled treatment cycle: * *AlexG*1st IVF - 1 egg collected - abnormal fertilisation 11/03/08  *Babyspoons/Spoony*1st ICSI - April '08 - tested negative  *Beans33*1st IVF/ICSI - June '08 - cancelled due to only 5 follicles - will start again with a higher dose soon  *ElenaSch*3rd ICSI - Slovakia - March '08 - tested negative 14/03/08  *Jan27 (Cheryl)*2nd ICSI at Lister - Feb '08 - cancelled due to no response - maybe Jinemed next?  *Jnr*1st IVF - UCH London - 1 blastocyst transferred - tested negative April '08  *Kazzie40*1st IVF -Turkey - PGD for translocated gene - - tested negative 18/03/08  *Merse1*FET - 13/03/08 - tested negative  Now scheduled to have endo op 13/06/08*Sheldon*1st ICSI - April '08 - tested negative  *Siheilwli*3rd cycle - ICSI - no fertilisation - converted to FET but tested negative April '08  *Silverglitter*2nd ICSI - LP - tested negative May '08  - follow up 27/06/08*SJC*4th cycle - SP - Lister - tested negative  *Sonia*3rd IVF, this time with ICSI - LP - tested negative 07/05/08  *Terry*6th ICSI - SP - tested negative 28/05/08 - will try 7th cycle end June/start July 2008  *TracyM*2nd DIVF - tested negative 24/05/08  *PR Ladies who have decided to stop treatment/move on:* *Francie*Good Luck    *Lollipop (Gabrielle)*Good Luck    *PR Ladies undergoing Adoption process:* *Linziloo*Good Luck    *PR Ladies with bumps*   *Bugle*  on 2nd ICSI - Jinemed - due 16/12/08 *Emmachoc*  after FET - due 07/10/08*Laurab*  on 4th cycle, this time with ICSI - Jinemed - 1st scan 06/06/08 showed triplets! due ??/??/09*LittleJenny's sister, Kate* on 1st IVF - twins! due 28/12/08 *Matchbox* on 1st IVF June 2008 - LP - LWH - 1st scan ??/??/08*Miranda7*  on 3rd ICSI - Jinemed - due 29/06/08*PaulB & his DW Jennig*  surprise natural BFP April '08 after failed fertilisation on 2nd ICSI in Feb '08 - next scan 27/05/08 - due ??/??/08*Snic*  on 3rd IVF - tested positive 27/04/08 - 1st scan ??/05/08 *Swoo*3rd ICSI - SP - next scan 29/05/08 - due ??/05/08*Sunshine*  on 3rd ICSI - due 31/10/08 *PR Ladies with babies*   *EBW*  Kate - born January 14th after 4th ICSI*Nicky W* Emily Alice - born May 23rd 2008 after surprise natural BFP while d/regging for 4th IVF*Pin*  Olivia Jane - born November 30th 2007 after 1st IVF*Roozie*  Emma,  Lucy and  Jake born January 29th 2008 
(triplets 32+6, all healthy  ) after 1st GIFT at UCH


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## lucky_mum (Dec 16, 2005)

We're all so excited too!!! 

Ginger 'fro or not, I'm sure he'll be a gorgeous wee laddie 

Next time I do that list- he'll be on it! Whoo!!

Night! xxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Yay! Night night. xxxxxxxxx


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2008)

Night Mira - Hope you get some sleep    Ooo, this is so exciting.  I'm getting confused - I thought Laura was having the babies with the ginger 'fros, not you.  Does Pete have ginger curly hair?

Steph - thanks for the list and glad you to hear you're feeling better - your DH sounds wonderful  

LilJen - Good luck for EC   

xxx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Morning, you go to sleep and everythings changed, woohoo, Miranda, hope that Bob;s started making an appearance during the night, will be thinking of you xxx


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## Linzxxxx (Mar 9, 2008)

Morning Ladies

Miranda -   good luck hun, Let us know how you get on!!

Its like a big family here. Thanks for letting me jion ladies!! I will write later and let you know how I got on with the scan, obviously with more questions!  

xxxxxxx


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## Rachel (Mar 10, 2004)

Ooh Miranda!! I'm excited too! 

Looking forward to hearing your news  

Rachel x


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Good luck Miranda - hope you are not kept waiting too long x Ben just took the **** out of me - couldnt believe how excited I was for someone I had never met!!!!!

Linz - Good luck with that scan!! Make sure you let us know x

Little Hen - good luck with laying them eggs x

Everyone else I will come back to you when I find a suitably quiet time at work later (when I get a chance to slack off without being noticed!!).

xxxx


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## Belliboo (Dec 23, 2007)

Just wondered if I can join you and if you have any advice.

This is my first IVF and it took me 10 weeks to DR with buserelin, I had 8 follicles on scan after 9 days of 3 amps of menopur and was told 4 were very immature (I now wonder if at this stage they should have given me more menopur to help them grow but they didnt) I had EC yesterday and they collected 4 eggs had a call today to say that only 2 fertilised 1 abnormally so going in tomorrow for single ET.  I know I should be pleased to have one but can anyone give me any advice as feeling quite low at min and not very opptomistic xx


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Rachal78    welcome and good luck for ET tomorrow, one good embryo is all it takes


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## vonnie15 (Mar 28, 2007)

Morning All,

Any movement Miranda?

Well just got the dreaded FSH test back and I think I'm happy with it, it is in the high side of normal but hasn't changed since August last year so that's encouraging.  Is there any advuce you could give to try and reduce it for my August cycle?

Vonnie


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## alegria (Dec 10, 2007)

Morning ladies  

Miranda - OMG!!! Bob is finally making an appearance!!!! That's soooo exciting!!!!!   Don't you worry about a thing, hun. We'll all be here praying for you to have a quick and easy labour    It's so funny but just like you I couldn't go anywhere without straightening my hair first - not even into labour!     Looking forward to seeing the little man's pics  

Steph - Thanks for the update. I'm praying so hard that this time it will work for Paul and you     

Beach - Thinking of you and Alex too   

Linz - Don't get discouraged about acupuncture because you had a bad experience. It really is meant to help and above all to keep you focused and relaxed. Just make sure that you find an acupuncturist that has experience in treating ladies going through IVF - it makes all the difference!  

Laura - Have you seen that programme about triplets on TV? 

LittleJenny - Good luck with EC   

Rachel - Welcome on board and good luck for ET tomorrow   There are so many successful stories here on FF with a single transfer. Stay positive   

A big   to everyone else!!

Alegria xx


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2008)

Vonnie - It's good that your FSH hasn't changed much.  I don't know what to advise re bringing it down as although mine seems to jump about all over the place, it never seems to go over 10. I'm sure someone will be along soon to offer you some sound advice   

Rachel - As the others have said, 1 is all it takes.  You said you DR for 10 weeks!  Most of us poor responders do the short protocol where we don't DR but go straight into stimms on either CD2 or CD3.  With us PR's DR seems to shut down the ovaries too much.  Hopefully you'll get a BFP from this cycle but if you don't may be your clinic will increase your drugs next time (I think 6 amps of menopur per day is the max in the UK) or put you on the short protocol.  Good luck   

Morning/afternoon Alegria


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Morning all! Just got up - tried to get a good sleep but my parents rang at 5am then 7am so I had to get up, tell them to stop ringing and then try to get back to sleep! Guess I'll have to get used to broken sleep eh? 

Rachel78 - welcome! That downregging will have killed you off I reckon - that's a long time to downreg, and most of us PRs don't downreg at all to get the maximum number of eggs.
But hey, you have an embryo! And it really does only take one. Chin up, bird! Try not to be too downhearted - the only way is up now. You were on a pretty low dose of stims, too, so there's loads that can be done on your next cycle if this one doesn't work.
But let's for now think it's going to work - it's perfectly possible!

Emma - Pete and I both have curly hair, and he has ginger in his beard if it grows... I'm just trying to think whether we have any redheads on my side...

Linz - I had a horrible acu person too. I was sitting there in my knickers and he said: "So, you're a journalist... like sticking your nose in other people's business then?" Charming bugger. Made me feel very vulnerable. Why do people assume everyone in the press works for the News of the World?

Thanks everyone for the well-wishes! No contractions as yet - hope they don't have to induce me. Going to walk the dogs and see if that brings them on.
xxxxxxxxxx


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## Belliboo (Dec 23, 2007)

Hi everyone 

Thanks for all your kind welcome and comments 

Emmachoc that makes so much sense about DR would be great not to DR as 10 weeks of it was so bad for me will see what clinic say (but hopefully will not have to) trying to keep up PMA as I'm lucky to get one.

You wouldn't believe my story of DR had loads of problems as womb lining didn't thin, had 2 lots of northisterone did bleed but lining still did not thin. also had D&C to thin but as I've got a tilited womb they managed to nick the uterus when tryingto get to the part that they coudn't reach due to it being tilited so that bit was missed. They also found a cyst that was aspirated followed by more meds and the womb still ended up being up to 8 in some parts but as blood tests were ok Docs were happy for me to continue onto stimms. 

Good luck to everyone else going through treatment and hope everyone else is ok look forward to getting to know you xxxx


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## alegria (Dec 10, 2007)

Miranda - As you go out to walk the dogs, this time please please don't go too far from home,ok?


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Blimey - that sounds dreadful Rachel. For what it's worth I really think they should have called it off when you weren't downregging, rather than a D&C. What clinic are you at?

Alegs - I'll just go my normal route, and take my phone! Though it'd be fun to give birth in the River Frome...


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## Belliboo (Dec 23, 2007)

Hi Miranda7

I'm at the Hewitt Centre Liverpool Womens, yes DR seemed never ending and was awful and as its my first IVF am not really sure what to expect but keeping my fingers and everything else crossed for tomorrow

But yes will have to have a chat with them to see talk over things xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

The first cycle is almost always a trial run - you never can predict how someone will respond. But ten weeks is forever - bet it felt like it too!

I have everything crossed for your embryo to implant though - that's a fighter embryo if ever there was one!

xx


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## Kazzie40 (Apr 1, 2008)

Hi girls just wanted to say good luck to Miranda for a speedy and safe delivery. mmmm being called at 5 am in the morning is not good I do think it will be soon so I would try to sleep today if you can and are not too excited and restless  - ok I know you will be but still try - you need your strength.    

Ally - sorry about the follicles but hope that the cycle continues if that is what you are hoping for - good luck at the next scan.

Nix - Good luck for the 2ww and your visitors sounded just great for taking you mind off things - brilliant! 

Steph and Orphelia good luck for your forthcoming treatments.  

Beach thinking of you  

Lil Jen glad to to see the stimming went well

Nicks - that is a lovely pic of your darling baby girl - my thighs were thunderous before I got into this baby making marlarky and well there is no hope for them now but Ive seen your pics - Im sure you will be back to normal before long!

Hello to the newbies being a relative newbie myself can't help much with the queries other then say that this thread proves that the pessimistic view of doctors is very often wrong Im glad to say.

I have a new date for my lap and dye - July 9th which Im pleased about only two weeks today - down side is that unless Im late ovulating like I usually am on a non medicated cycle - I will be on CD 18 that day and will probably have missed the chance as not supposed to try naturally are you before the lap and dye but can afterwards.

I can bet my bottom that I will ovulate on a more normal type of cycle when I want my usual long one this month - still it ain't happened naturally for over a year so probably not much chance anyway! At least I get to find out whether my bits and pieces are alledged to be still up to it naturally with the lap and dye or whether IVF is my only option now.

A quick question I have heard that this could be a long cycle due to the IVF cycle - was this true for many of you ie when you got your period for the first time after the treatment cycle the next one was delayed?

Good luck everyone for whereever you are in this journey - take care love Karen xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

They can be delayed - and it can take a couple of periods to get your body back to normal. I'd leave it at least two AFs till the next lot if you can if you downregged...you did, didn't you Kaz?

But others report their period coming early, so there's no hard and fast answer.

xxxx


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## Button76 (Dec 30, 2006)

Good Luck Miranda - you are hilarious coming on here to tell everyone,  I would be sh***ng myself.  Hope all goes smoothly and you don't have to be induced.

LilJen - Hope your EC went well today and that your worries of empty follies are completely unfounded!

Steph - Good Luck in Turkey.  I really hope it brings you a BFP.  I am at University College Hospital in London.  Unlikely I will make it to 16 days post ET for the sake of my sanity but we'll see.  I don't really like testing so I am quite happy in the knowledge of being PUPO!!

 to everyone else.

Love Button xxx


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## cath J. (Nov 1, 2007)

Hi All

Thanks for all the kind words. Miranda - Woo hoo, it's going to happen very soon, how exciting, everything crossed for you.
Thanks for the info on Jin.

Love
C
X


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## Linzxxxx (Mar 9, 2008)

Hi Ladies

What is the lowest Antral folicle count anyone has had and then got preg?

Linz xxx


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## jennig (Nov 19, 2007)

Hi all,

Sorry I have been a bit absent recently- so much happening on here!!

Miranda- must be so exciting/scary that its finally happening- any contractions yet?? My friend puts her very quick labour down to the time she spent sitting on a stability ball in the few weeks beforehand- do you have one??

Laura- so pleased all was well with your scan last week- hope Tim has calmed down and you are now having as much chocolate as you want!!

Bugle- good to hear things are going well with you- bet you can't wait for summer hols

LittleJen- best of luck with EC- is it today??- sorry still trying to catch up- great news that all is well with Kate too

Beach- so sorry to hear what you have been going through- take good care of you and DH- do not rush back to work take the time you need

Cath- also so sorry to hear what has happened to you too

Steph & Ophelia- best of luck to you and DH's have everything crossed for you both

Gotta go as at work but will be back later to see what's happening with Bob!!

Just to let you know we had our 12 week scan last week and all seems to be ok- so we are feeling very relieved and slightly less anxious!!- starting to tell people now- Steph for your next update our EDD is now 27th December

Jenxx


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## Kazzie40 (Apr 1, 2008)

Hi girls - Miranda no I didn't down reg although they want me to next time - I just took the BCP which they don't want me to take as well next time. Does down regging make a difference then? what does it do in regards to your periods? 

I still don't quite understand the down regging side of things because if I do another cycle I have to start down regs ( Lucrin in my case ) on cd 21 but surely by then you have ovulated and there is a chance of pregnancy - I have heard of people getting pregnant on down reg drugs but is this safe? - I just wondered how the drugs interfered with your natural cycle - surely you wouldn't be able to substain a pregnancy if it happened naturally? bit confused  

Can anyone shed some light on this? Thanks Karen.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Nicks got pg while downregging Karen! So yes, I think Emily is testament to it being ok.

Downregging can shut your ovaries down too much, so it's harder for them to recover and have a period quickly afterwards. But that's not a rule, so just do what the clinic advise.

The BCP, as Steph discovered, can do the same sort of shutting down, but you'll never know until you have a go.

Jen - well done on getting past the magic 12-week mark!
Such a relief.

Linz - I had four-six maybes. They weren't at all clear as the clinic I used weren't very good.

Hi to Cath and Button!

xxxxxxxxxx


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## Linzxxxx (Mar 9, 2008)

Hi Miranda

Arent you in labour yet?  

Had my antral follicle scan today, no follies at all, not one!! Im heartbroken    

Anyone got any advice about ANYTHING??

Love heartbroken Linz xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

That can change from month to month, Linz - try not to worry about this month.


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Yes linz it really can change from one month to the next - listen to Miranda - and me!! xxxx


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Linz - will chat more later - still at work at the mo - I will be back x


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## Linzxxxx (Mar 9, 2008)

Thanks Ladies.

He gave me the whole talk about taking HRT or the pill!! He said with a high FSH, a AMH reading of 0.7 and a follcile count of none with random periods, their is nothing he can do and CARE will not be treating me  

I asked loads of questions like 'what if I went abroad?' 'Are there any experiment drugs you can try?' 'Im young quailty counts doesnt it?' He was having non of it. I really dont know what to do   

My mum and dad have just rang and were popping round theirs for abit. I promise I will be straight back on here when I get home.

Thanks for giving me some type of hope girlies xxxxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Just ignore him - he's got one eye on his statistics, that's all. With 0.7 there ARE eggs in there somewhere. Book a consult with the Jin guys and ask them for their opinion - they are prepared to take people like us on and won't be that discouraging.

xxxxxxxxx


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## Linzxxxx (Mar 9, 2008)

Thanks for that. Whos Jin Guys? xx


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## Ocelot Cub (Mar 31, 2008)

Linz - I think Miranda means Jinemad - the clinic that treated her in Turkey - there seems to be a lot of praise for them on this board. 

One thing that i have learnt through all of this heartache is that if you get a consultant with that sort of attitude - you walk straight away, very fast, do not stop, do not pass go! I had exactly the same consultation at UCH in London, I was so devastated, I thought that was it. Now 3 months on i am now at the Lister, they were willing to give me a shot. Of course we dont know what the outcome will be but they are willing to give me my best shot - which is the best I can ask for. I have not responded so well to the stims so far but they are still hanging in there with me. I am not suggesting that the lister is the place for you, as London probably isn't the best option but there will be someone who is right for you out there. Dont give up, I am sure the statistics are low for pof people getting pregnant because too many people are bullied by consultants and subsequently go straight to DE without trying with their own. I really really feel for you honey x Its just one thing after another isnt it. 

I was given the HRT and Pill speech, I then went to a menopause specialist who said that I didnt need to be on it at all. I have been advised to have a bone scan which I am going to do. So I dont think there is any harm with being referred to a menopause specialist - just to get stuff checked over. It may just put your mind at rest.

xxxx


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## bugle (Dec 26, 2007)

Crikey!! Good Luck Mirr - I can't believe you are still posting and offering all that wonderful advice when you are about to have BOB!!! You are amazing!!!!! Hope he comes nice and quickly, we will be looking forward to the pics!!!

Hello LJ, and Ally / Linz and all the other new people I haven't caught up with yet!!! Interesting reading all the talk about diet and stress and things - I think I was guilty of most of those things in the last few years, and tried hard to improve on all of those before going to Jinemed for my 2nd cycle. Also had accu, Dhea etc....

jennig - so pleased your scan went well - big sigh of relief - although speaking from experience - it seems like a very long time until 20 weeks!!! I have started to tell people now - well actually it's pretty obvious, and it seems a bit scary when everyone knows!

Laura - hope the triplets are doing well

Beach and Cath 

Emma - not so long for you now!

Steph and Opheila - how exciting  - you will be out there together again - best of luck!!


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Phew its like a full time job keping up with you girls!!

Mirra - Woooooo Hooooo!  Can't beleve all this was going on and you didn't text me!! How exciting!

Beach - How are you dearest? 

Ally -  

Steph - not long now. 

Emma - Hows the funny legs?

busy week at work, boss off so no skiving off early for me so shattered.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

It was a bit late for texting! So I announced it on FF and ******** instead!  

Tuh - my bath's gone cold...


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## laurab (Apr 17, 2006)

Are you allowed a bath after your waters have broke?

I'm so excited!!!!!!!!!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

With no foam! No perfumey stuff.


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## popsi (Oct 11, 2007)

mira  - i thought you would have  been in advanced labour by now at least LOL !!!


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Nah - no such luck. In five minutes I become the one in 200 women who go over 24 hours from waters breaking to contractions - bum!


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## popsi (Oct 11, 2007)

well its good to be special


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Special! I like it! I'll probably start in the middle of the night or something. Maybe just one more night's sleep?


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## beachgirl (Jun 7, 2007)

Mir- are you sleeping upright so your hair stays straight.


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hee! No, I'll probably dry it and straighten it before bed. I usually do it in the morning when it's sticking out like Worzel Gummidge.

Thanks for your text, missus! Are you on the rum and coke again tonight?


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## Nicki W (Nov 1, 2006)

Mirra - good luck girl! Hope it all starts naturally - I'm sure it will. How long do they let you go before giving you something?    
Can't wait to meet Bob!   
NW


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## Kazzie40 (Apr 1, 2008)

Miranda I definately recommend one more nights sleep but then Bob may have other ideas!  

So trying for pregnancy the month you down reg is ok then? ( hark at me like there is a chance I will fall pregnant naturally after so long of it not happening - but still!)

The lap and dye may dictate otherwise ie might not be able to try if ovulate before it - have to see I suppose.

If we don't hear from you promptly in the morning we will know of course where you are likely to be - can't wait to meet your young man!

Take care love Karen xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Four DAYS, Nicks! Unbelievable, isn't it?

Hopefully it'll just start on it's own tonight.  

Kaz - why not just have sex for fun and if a miracle happens it happens? I know it feels funny when one's trying so hard to conceive!! But you're worrying about something when you don't need to. Just jump his bones if you want to, lady!  

I'd like to take you up on your prescription for a night's sleep, please! Will it happen? Who knows...

xxxxxx


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## Han72 (Feb 15, 2007)

Blimey, you lot don't hang about do ya?  I turn my back for 5 minutes and Miranda's waters break!  How you feeling now hon?  Hope the little man doesn't hang around too much longer, got my fingers crossed for you!!! 

Hey Kazzie, I don't think that BMS is recommended as such during d/r (I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, but I've heard that some people think the d/r drugs might harm the fetus) but as this board bears witness, you can get good results if you try...!

BG  how are you hon? 

Linz - do me a favour, if you ever see that consultant again, tell him the entire PR board says "KISS MY !" It ain't over until the ole fat lady sings my love!  Any chance of getting down to London for a consult at the Lister (With Dr Jaya preferably! If you read ack thru the earlier messages you'll know why I say that!)  Or even going to the Jinemed in Turkey that so many peeps on here are raving about?  Don't have personal experience but I've only heard good things about them...  Good luck whatever you do next hon 

Sorry no more persos but I'm absolutely battered.  The 2 girls went home this evening and I have to admit I miss them already, I haven't laughed so much in years   I swear the pair of them should have their own tv show, it was giggling from the  minute they wake up to whenever they crashed out   They have totally worn me out with their joie de vivre (although that possible has more to do with the fact they somehow convinced me to climb to the top of the arc de triomphe yesterday  !)  And having them here has made the time pass so quickly, it was great to check the calendar just now and realise that I only have just over a week left of the 2 week torture   Test date is Thurs July 3rd by the way.  Had blood test today to measure blood platelets (to check the aspirin and heparin are still improving blood flow?) and estrogen levels. In typical French fashion, the doc didn't tell me what the results were but merely indicated that I should carry on 500iu HCG jabs, had one on 22nd, one tonight (24th) and another on Thurs 26th. 

So that's me!  Gotta crash now, can't stop yawning!  Night all!

xxxx


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## lainey-lou (Feb 18, 2007)

OMG!  You lot can sure talk!  I have come on every day and it has taken me so long to read through all the posts, I haven't had time to post myself.  It has taken me an hour and a half to get up to date tonight but I was determined to do it as I was desperate to post  

Mira - I am really excited for you.  I have only been on a few days but feel I know you all already.  I hope Bob comes soon (and relatively painlessly).  You asked about my AMH - it was on the scale where 12-25 is normal, so 2.84 is pants, right?  

Laurab - I am really glad the triplets are growing nicely.  When is the next scan?

LJ - hope the EC went well today and you got loads of lovely eggies   

Ally - I am really sorry you haven't responded well to the stims.  I had high levels of stims this time (600iu fostimon and merional??) and only produced two eggs.  In my other two rounds I had 150iu of Gonal F and got 5 and 4 eggs    I hope the reduced dose does the trick for you.  

Nix - fellow PUPO lady.  Good luck on the 2ww.  3 embies, what a luxury, I can only dream of that    I love the names too, they made me laugh out loud  

Steph - good luck at Jinemed, I hope it works out for you this time.  

Rachel/Linzi - fellow newbies.  Sorry you are having a rough time of it.  The advice you have been given is sound.  Just reading/posting on here has made me feel more positive, not necessarily about this round but it has given me hope to maybe have another go if it doesn't work out.

Beach - sorry to hear you have had to suffer the pain of m/c.  I had my third in November so understand the feeling of emptiness you must feel.  Feel free to pm me if you want to talk  

Emma - congratulations on your BFP.  We posted together on the pg loss board in November.  I am really pleased the FET worked out for you.  There is hope for me yet  

NickyW - how beautiful your lovely daughter is, you must be over the moon with her.  Congratulations.

Oh god, can't remember everyone else    Sorry.

What is an Antral Follicle Count?  Don't know if I've had this done.  Probably, had every other test under the sun  

I have ordered some DHEA as I was so excited by the findings of the research posted on here.  See how sure I am that this cycle won't have worked!  Always the optimist me  

Come on Bob, you can do it!

Nite nite.

Lainey x


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## Kazzie40 (Apr 1, 2008)

Hi Nix thanks for that - I suspected as much that you probably aren't meant to try naturally whilst D/R but would love to know what the official answer is -  probably a a BFN as usual its all I seem to get lately in all aspects of my life - still Nicks is testiment to the fact that it can and does happen but it probably isn't recommended that you actually try for it - does anyone know the official answer - it probably sounds mad that you are trying to get pregnant on a month you  D/R for a cycle because you can't get pregnant    mmmmm.

Miranda - Dr K has written a nights sleep prescription for you but to cash it in you need to actually go to bed to have a chance of getting it!! and trust me if you go into labour tonight you'll wish you had but hey Bob might be kind and let you have one more night of peace.

I shall look in and see if you have checked in tomorrow, night all love Karen xxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Lou - yes, it's diminished all right - but so are all of ours! And you've managed to get this far, so you ain't dead yet.

Antral follicle count is where they count the potential number of follicles on your resting ovaries. It's quite hard to do, as they are so tiny.

Nix - it's recommended to laugh as much as possible so your embies want to stick around in such a happy body!


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2008)

HI Lainey - Yes, I remember you from the pg loss boards.  I'm so hoping this is your time.  When do you test - you need to get a ticker misses  

Nix - I love a good laugh me - whenever I'm feeling low I phone my best friend in the UK and we have belly laughs over the phone.  A good hike up the Arc de Triomphe is good for the embies - gets all the blood flowing in the right places.  I did a massive hike during my most recent 2ww.  I felt sick during it and thought I had sun stroke but as it turns out it was m/s.  

Mira - Ahhh, I'd be going mad just waiting for a contraction.  Are you still pooing normally?  Sorry to ask, it's just that it's good to know for the future?

Laura - Yes, funny legs are still here    So it would seem that the iron tablets weren't the amazing success I thought they were.  I suppose I have to give them time.  They are turning my poo black too which is slightly off putting.

LilJen or LilHen as someone on here called you   - hope you had a good crop yesterday and you're not feeling too sore  

Bugle & Jening - Glad all is going well with your pregnancies   

Have been awake since 4am this morning.  My restless legs woke me up and we're in the midst of a severe typhoon warning here in HK, so the wind and rain battering against the windows stopped me from getting back to sleep.  I gave up trying in the end.  The typhoon warning is so severe that DH can't go to work until it drops in severity.  I don't think the typhoon will actually hit HK, we're just getting a battering from the edges of it.

xxxx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oo, a typhoon! That's scary.

My poos have been a bit loose for a while now, oddly. And I've just thrown up, after nine months of no sickness... He's still moving about in there though, and my temp is fine - may have been the pea fritters I ate earlier!

My SD has arrived, so we're all up still. Maybe I'll get some quality sleep at some point!

Um, restless legs. Most annoying. Did you not eat your prescribed bananas?


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2008)

Yes Mum - I ate my bananas!  I don't want to eat too many as I'm afraid I'll get bunged up - apparently iron tables can do that to you, so I'm eating loads of fruit and high bran stuff at the mo.

Sorry to hear you've thrown up - obviously Bob doesn't do pea fritters    Hope you get a good sleep xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Well I slept well for four hours! Getting worried now...

Think I'll go back to bed and read - see if that does the trick. Though I feel wide awake.

Bah.

xxxxxx


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## Linzxxxx (Mar 9, 2008)

Morning Ladies

Any news yet Miranda? Has Bob decided to give you one more nights sleep?  

Thanks again Ladies for filling me with hope. DH thinks its time to throw the towel in, ive told him I havent even started yet  

Jinemed are in London in July, Ive been online and im going to book a place with them to have a consultation. our familys are going to help us as much as they can with the cost of IVF in Turkey, but we will have to cough up the rest! Ive told DH im having 1 go at my own eggs, ive gotta give myself that much! I havent heard of anybody havent a nil count of antral folicles, I hope Jinemed will give me at least one go!!

Lainey Lou - Thanks alot for your response, this site gives me so much hope to

NixF01 - I should of slapped the consultant myself!! I told him that I have spoken to other ladies with the same symptoms as me and have gone on to have a baby using their own eggs! He said 'doubt it' and that 'people are sometimes to ashamed for one reason or another to give in and tell people that really they used a donor egg' blah blah blah. He does deserve a kick in!!  

Ally1973 - Thanx for PM'ing me, I needed that. I know I should speak to someone about it, but who? All the professionals wont see me in this country. Dont know about Turkey yet, but I bet it aint good. They think im write off, but I aint given up just yet. As NixF01 said, the fat ladies hasnt sang yet!

Sorry if ive missed anyone off, and thanks again for writing back   xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Rachel (Mar 10, 2004)

This way to a new home..................... 

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=147093.new#new


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