# Is this normal?



## Marielou (Oct 18, 2003)

Hiya,

I got a BFN from FET last week.
We had a major rollarcoaster to get there - I had a m/c after DIUI last year at 11 weeks, we did ICSI egg share in July, and I overstimulated, so all my embies were frozen,  and they didnt survive the thaw well at all. 
When we put them back they were already dying.  
I was quite numb and feeling ok about thtings last week, but over the weekend, things have hit me. 
I am so angry with DH I feel as if I actually hate him.  I don't hate him at all, the complete opposite, I love him with all my heart.  Its just I can't take this pain.  I know this is far from the truth, but I just feel that everyone else has it easy (not talking about people on this site, people in my everyday life)   - a friend of mine had IVF a few days after me, she smoked and said it would never work, she always gets whatever she wants - you've guessed it, she got her positive yesterday.
It just seems so unfair.  I'm glad for her, really I am, but everything at every stage went wrong for us, and everything went so well for her.  
I don't see a day when I'll ever have a baby, and I am so full of hate and rage and anger and dispair.    Yesterday, I just wanted to lay down and die.  I know this all sounds melodramatic, but thats how I feel.   
I feel so empty and angry inside, and I feel like all my fight has gone.  Mark has mon-weds off work, and I am going crazy having him around me.  He is so sweet to me, and we went shopping yesterday, but I got in a rage as I saw the new Celine Dion cd (god, i must be feeling bad!) its about babies, called Miracle.
There are some wonderful songs on there froma mother to her baby, and I stood in WH Smiths balling my eyes out. (Luckily I had my cap on, and noone saw) 
I am seriously considering leaving Mark.  The only thing stopping me is the fact that I love him so much.   But, I just can't cope with IF anymore.  Its been 5 years now, and I just can't do it.     
We are moving back to DIUI now, I'm fine with that, so is Mark, but I'm angry that we even have to have treatment.   This shouldnt have happened.  This shouldnt happen to anyone!   I look at my life and am amazed it turned out this way.    
I am tip-toeing around a family wedding thats in 2 weeks, becuase the bride is pregnant with my cousins first baby, her 5th by the 3rd man.  Oh, and they're upset as she found out last week its a boy.   They wanted a girl.   I just want a baby.  I know if they moan about the sex in front of me I'll say something rude.  
I went to my GP and asked about councelling, she turned round and told me that I 'havent been through enough to warrant councelling, and its there for suicidal people'
My clinic is an hour away, and I am hesitant to approach them for councelling now, as I don't want to be told I'm not unhappy enough.     
I have an appt with my clinic in just over a week's time, and we're meant to be having DIUI next cycle, but I do think we'll put it back.  We'll wait and see.  
Is it normal to have all these feelings after a BFN? 
Sorry to sound like a drama queen and over-reacting, but I am just so sad and unhappy.   
Marie xx


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## sunfish (Apr 20, 2002)

Marie

No I don't think you're different from anyone else when experiencing a BFN. For me it was like a small part of me died each time we experienced it. We all have different ways of expressing our grief, as that is what I feel it is.

Your doctor is dreadful, counselling is there to help you and not only to be dished out when somebody might be suicidal! I wish I could give them a piece of my mind.

What ever I say won't necessarily make you feel any better at the moment, but I'm hear listening, as I'm sure the rest of the FF family are. Rant & rave all you want, life isn't always fair, and quite often it feels like at times that we are getting all the bad stuff dumped on us from high!

love & a big cyber hug

Camilla


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## taff (Oct 8, 2004)

Ah Marielou,

You have me in tears!  Your GP sounds like a right burk, women get help all the time for stress of work, etc, dealing with Infertility is as painful and depressing, if not more so!

I know how you feel, and I think it is normal!  It has to be normal, as I feel the same.  I couldn't look at my husband and sent him down his parents a couple of times for an hour, just so that I could have time to myself and grieve properly.  I was too afraid to do it in front of him because I didn't want to upset him aswell.

You undoubtedly love your husband very much, as I love mine, and it is heart wrenching to see disappointment on their faces, but it is basically a mirror image of what we are projecting to them aswell.   He obviously loves you too, don't forget that!!

You are not over-reacting, nor are you a drama queen, you are a normal person, dealing with a loss.  Don't let anyone tell you any different, especially your stupid GP.  

I'm afraid to say that the pain can't be taken away from you, but in time it does get easier to bear.  I know this doesn't help very much now, but I believe this with all my heart as I have been TTC for 7 years and last week got another BFN.  

If you don't feel ready to go to the wedding, then don't go.  This is your time, and you need to do whatever you can to help yourself get over this loss, don't let anyone push you into doing anything you don't feel ready to do.

I wish I could help you more Marie, I hope with all my heart that you and you husband can work through this.  You have something very special and precious, you love each other dearly and whatever else happens, you still have that!

Take care of yourself sweetie, am thinking of you.

Luv
Taff x


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## skelly (Sep 10, 2004)

Hi Marielou

Sorry you're on something of a downer

I can't advise you as only you yourself know what you are going through and what you're limits are
The anger is inevitable with your partner, I've been there with my husband and though I've never told him I'm a seething mass of resentment. I know it's not his fault that he has fertility problems but I wish he could give some consideration to my position.
(What I also do resent is that I am the one paying for all the fertility treatment - he hasn't stumped up a bean, and it's been £12,000 so far.......I just think that it would be so much easier if I were to find someone who is willing to donate through the "traditional route" and stay with my husband but of course it wouldn't, therein lies the road to hell.)
I was aware of my husbands fertility problems right from the outset so I knew what I was getting into. But the myth is that male factor infertility is easier to deal with, not in my case it wasn't, I've been trying to get pregnant since I was 29 and now I am 40! With diminishing hope of success.
I actually also resent the fact that I have to pump my body full of these drugs to make my hyperovulate, all the time risking ovarian cancer, breast cancer and god knows what else when I don't even have a problem
It all seems so easy in theory, all the male does is provide the sperm, while the female body does all the technical stuff but getting that sperm is next to impossible and yes, you do have to put yourself through all kinds of traumas to get what otherwise would be an easy exercise. 
I actually told my husband in the summer, after our IVF failed that I was leaving him, but the reality is that I can't. We have just moved house and have a huge mortgage as well as a baby with special needs and I can't afford to leave him. I still care about him on many  levels but I don't think I love him anymore and the sex life has completely dried up - what's the point??

My sister said to me a few months ago that my neice who is 24 will be starting to try for a baby soon, she doesn't particularly want a child at present, she wants a career, but on the other hand, she doesn't want to end up like me!!!!!!!!!!!
From where I am standing I couldn't disagree with her rationale

With the counselling and support - you do actually have to talk up your depression or pain or you aren't taken seriously. I was depressed when I was pregnant with Sam and my GP wouldn't refer me for help, it was actually my obstetrician who got onto my GP and insisted I was referred, and that was after I said I was going to jump under a bus - as if? I had anti depressants for about 3 months and they made a huge difference in helping me to come to terms with Sams diagnosis and getting through the last trimester of my pregnancy.

I don't know if men in couples who have female factor infertilit develop  the same feelings, they don't seem to have the same biological drive to reproduce as women do. On the other hand , I do know a few men who have been in that position who have left their wives after the couple deciding to give up on treatment and accept their childfree future - and guess what??
I will say no more

Relate may be able to help you but if it's anything like in this area then you'll have a two year plus wait after your initial assessment
I'm not sure whether posting this is a good idea but I will, if only to show you that your feelings are entirely normal at this stage of the "game"

With love and hugs   Jo


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## Flopsy (Sep 18, 2003)

Dear Marie and all the girls here,

Firstly, I take my hat off to the level of honesty on this thread.

There is not enough acknowledgment in society to those of us who keep trying and trying with little or no success. 

Marie - words cannot express how deeply I was moved by your post. I've seen you go through the OHSS and now the unsuccessful FET and it makes me so angry and upset to see you suffer. This is all so unfair and painful.

With biggest hugs from,


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## Karen-C (Sep 22, 2003)

Marie

Like Flopsy, words cannot express how much I was moved by your post and how similar it sounds to how I often feel. I get so angry that it hasn't happened for me yet.  I take out all my mood swings and rages on my poor DH who sometimes I feel just does NOT show enough emotion about it all!!!  Last year I honestly thought our marriage was over but I still feel that he doesn't care enough about my feelings, about tx, and in all honestly in having a child of our own.  HE keeps things bottled up and that annoys me, his philosophy is why should we both we miserable about it when I can be miserable on my own!!!!!
Also to make things worse I have a new baby next door which, in my really down moments, drives me insane!  Tho, due to a neighbourly dispute which some of you may have read about, they are not talking to us at the moment and have their house up for sale, which is all down to the way we have done our garden  (but that's another story).  I even worked myself up to going in and handing in a pressie for the new arrival, expecting to be asked in to see the new wee one, but basically got the present taken off me and the door shut in my face!
Anyway, rambling on a bit now but I think we all feel the same way.  We all go through phases of hating our partners, we all feel angry that things are this way for us, everywhere we go there are bumps and babies, we all feel failures.  We have to cope with all the tx, drugs, disappointments yet go to work, act normal and be happy!!!  How do we manage it?  I am waiting to start on iui No 10 in the next couple of weeks and beginning to wonder why I am putting myself thru this.  If it's not worked by No 9 I honestly don't think it's gonna work at all.  Just counting the days till my ivf consultation but also panicking at the age factor and feeling that time is definitely running out!

Sorry to rant on and have a moan myself.  Really should be trying to cheer you up Marie!

Cheery thoughts eh!!!!

Take care and lots of love

Karen xxx


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## Jan B (Jul 28, 2004)

Hi Marie

God yes it is normal well especially after reading all the posts...i am feelin exactly like that at the mo...I had IVF last October, i got 5 eggs which all fertilised....i had 1 replaced with a -ve, i had fet in January with another -ve the my next fet was a +ve in March i was over the moon and couldnt believe this was it but like yourself at 11 weeks i m/c they told me the baby had died at 7weeks 6 days......i was devastated and just balled my eyes out for god knows how long!.....I was due to have my last two put back last week but as they was only at 40% chance of survival they didnt make it....agian gutted...

My dh then tells me that we need to get our relationship back on track and he dosent know if he can go through ivf again.......as if im not upset enough he throws that one at me so like you i hated him but loved him too.  He has a son from a previous relationship whos 14...hes a great kid but hes not mine, i want my own child where im its mum ...thats all i want to be is a mum.  

Before i m/c my due date was 26 november this year ....my sister in law is due 5 jan 2005 and i have panick attacks if im goin to see her...i dread going to my mother in laws jus in case she turns up....all i think is i should be that big now.

I think we should look to next year being the year ....if you give up your dream then you will always be wondering what if.........  give it all you have got girl.

My dh has agreed to carry on next year but nly up to 2 replacements.......It is a rollercoaster ride alright but hopefully we will end up on top one day laughing with joy  keep your chin up hun.

Jan xx


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## taff (Oct 8, 2004)

Hi Marie,

I was just wondering how you are doing today?  I hope you are feeling a little better!

Take comfort in knowing that you have lots of friends on this site that know how you are feeling and are ready to listen to you, myself included.

Just take each day as it comes, it's the best we can do at times like this.

Taff x


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## Marielou (Oct 18, 2003)

Hiya girls,

Thank you all so much for sharing so openly and honestly your experiances with me.  I was thinking I was the only one that felt so bad, and was worried I was being a dramam queen, or getting depressed again.
I had a nervous breakdown after the loss of my baby, and didnt want to go down that route again after finally getting better.  
Its strange - BFN after fertility tx is like a m/c in many ways, except there is something missing.  I guess its still a grieving process.
I am feeling better today - no tears yet! - and I'm sure its because I off-loaded everything and I'm not keeping it bottled up.  
I can't wait until our appt next week, so we can fially hope to get some answers,  and so we can make an informed choice about which route to take - ICSI or DIUI.  

Taff - Sorry to hear about your BFN last week as well.    Thank you for sharing your story with me, I thought I was alone in having some sort of pain and resentment looking at DH-  at times Mark has said to me 'What about me? I'm hurting too' but I just havent been able to agknowledge his pain as mine felt so great.    Best of luck for the future, and I hope you get your BFP soon. 

Jo - Thank you for such an honest post.  At times I look at Mark, and I am literally seething with anger and pain at him.  I've even told him he's ruined my life.    I know its not his fault, but you have to have somewhere to vent your pain, and its just typical that its DH.      
I also feel some sort of resentment towards his mother - he is infertile due to undescended testicles.  He was born 3 months early, after his mum threw herself down the stairs as she didnt want another baby (she already had a 3 year old DS and baby DD under 1)  and his testicles were undescended.    She of course loved him when he was born, but he was too poorly to have the op to bring his testicles down until he was 3-4.  But, when he was 3, his parents decided to move to australia.  They came back to the UK when he was 14, which is when they remembered he needed an operation, and he had it then.  I just can't imagine forgetting your child needs an operation!  I try not to blame her - she sadly passed away in 2001 - but it is hard.  
My sister was like your niece - at 18 she said to me she wanted to try for a baby, as she didnt want to end up like me.  9 months later, she delivered a healthy baby girl.  I love my niece to bits, but it hurts to think that she is growing up, and I just assumed I would have the first grandchild, KWIM?  
It sounds like you have been through so much, and I wish you all the best with your upcoming DIUI cycle.  


Camilla, Flopsy, Jan and Karen,
Thank you so much for your kind words and encouragment.  

Hugs
Marie xx


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## delli (Aug 9, 2004)

Hi Marielou

Just read the thread, and its interesting to find out that other people feel just the same as you do.

I had a termination 14 years ago (I don't even want to go there, the grief now is horrendous!!).  So when me and hubbie started to try for a family we just assumed the problem was with him.  He had a semen analysis done which showed deformed sperm and a very low count aswell.  

When we had our first try with ICSI, I just assumed it would work, unfortunately I didn't respond as I should have, the Dr said I needed to be given the equivalent of drugs that would be prescribed to a 40 year old, I was 30.

Anyway, on we went we attempt number two, which resulted in BPN, and again on with attempt number three, which also resulted in BPN, back again with attempt number four, yes you guessed it BPN.  After attempt number four the Dr told me I had problems with one of my fallopian tubes, it wasn't working as it should be, and also they had problems with the transfer.  So after four failed attempts they decided to send me for a cervical dilatation to help with the transfer, and did a endocervical swab on me to check for chlamydia etc (why wasn't this done before?)  The results came back negative and the dilatation went well.

Throughout all of the above treatments I resented my hubbie immensley, I just kept thinking I could at any point have gone out and had a baby without him, so hence wouldn't need to go through these treatments.  Obviously that was before I found out about the fallopian tube problem, (even then I thought well I've still got the other one that works).  I love him dearly as I am sure you do yours, but unfortunately sometimes I am so horrible to him.

A big issue with me is other peoples pregnancies, I know I should be mature and take it on the chin, but sometimes I find it so hard just to even say congratulations.  My cousin had infertility problems for about 4 years, and was just about to start her first cycle of IVF, and guess what, yes she got pregnant naturally, I absolutely hated her (I lover her to bits, we are very close).  I didn't go to see her at all when she was pregnant, as I knew I would just breakdown, so I avoided her like the plague, which caused many arguments between the family, as I was seen as needing to get a grip, and comments like, well I thought she was going to adopt anyway.  This is a none swearing site, so I won't break the rules, I'll just let you imagine what I said.

I wanted to post to you just to let you know that your not on your own in the way that you feel, and to be honest its better to let your anger out rather than bottle it up.

I really do hope that everything works out for you, and one day you will the get to bring the child up you so deserve.

Take care

Delli


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## casey (Sep 26, 2004)

Hi everyone, 
been reading through this thread and it's so comforting to know that there are other women who are dealing with the same feelings of pain and frustration. i also had IVF and a BFN recently, and for the first week I jusy kept crying at the stupidest things, i found muself dodging babies and walking out of shops in tears. I'm lucky enough to have a lovely daughter, who was conceived naturally following If treatment, but right now I just feel so inadequate

Marie, you have a right to feel angry and hurt and also to grieve, and your Gp sounds so heartless, maybe he/she needs to be remionded of their have a duty of care towards you. I'll be thinking of you.

Karen - I know what you mean about resenting the fact that you have to have treatment. I feel the same. My dh is just so complacent that i'm the one with the problem even tho If is unexplained. and yeah that bloody clock just keeps on ticking

Skelly - My daughter is also disabled and that too makes me so angry. I hate dealing with Drs and seems as tho our whole lives revolve around drs, clinics, hospitals, tests, scans the lst goes on. But I also think the more we ahve to deal with it, the more we learn we can deal withi it. still bloody hard tho

Taff - you were on 2ww Sorry to hear about your BFN.

Jan B - God yes it is hard going thru IVf, I didn't realise what it would mean both mentally and physically and then at the same time we have to keep our relationships on track. i don't think our dh and dp's can ever fully understand even the hormonal upheaval let alone the emotional trauma.

Delli, I too had a termination and it's so hard I prefer not to think about it. I have also had problems with e/t due to cervix, my e/t lasted 3hrs and I needed gas & air, even now i could cry thinking about it. The nurse on this site recommended cervical dilation, could you tell me a bit about this, i'd be very grateful as dh wants to try again but to be honest i'm terrified of the same thing happening. can't believe you did it 4xs 

Anyway, thanks for telling your stories
Casey


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## Flopsy (Sep 18, 2003)

Dear Marie,

What a very, very sad sorry about your DH's birth and early life.

I'm very angry at my MIL.  My DH was also a premature baby and had a whole lot of health problems starting with cancer. Most of them stem from his early birth and also undescended testicles.  When my DH had cancer she couldn't even remember what had happened with this problem... I had to do all the investigations and history digging.

His family are not interested in his health.  His Mother won a major Lotto prize years ago but did not lift a finger to help finally all through our struggles. Even now she will not help with IVF costs or medical bills.

Your DH is very lucky to have you after such bad start in life.  

Hope you get some answers next week and things improve for us all soon!

With love from,


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## taff (Oct 8, 2004)

Hi Marie,

I am so glad to hear you are feeling a little better, it does help to hear other brave ladies stories as it proves we are not alone.

I omitted to say that I also suffered a miscarriage at 11  weeks, way back when I was 21 years old.  If he or she had been born, he/she would be 12 years old now and attending comprehensive school.  It hurts very much seeing children in their school uniforms, being waved off by their mothers before walking to school.  It hurts, because I should also be doing that now.

But as I said, time makes it easier to bear.  

Sometimes we have to remind ourselves why we are putting ourselves through the pain and grief of baby making and IF.  For me, it took so long to find my soul mate, we have a lot of love for each other and a baby would make our family complete.  We believe that we can be good parents and share our love.

Soppy I know, but I believe it with all my heart.

I wish you and all the other brave ladies who have shared their stories on this thread all the very best in their treatments, it will be our turn one day!! Lord knows we deserve it, each and every one of us!!!!

Luv
Taff x


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## delli (Aug 9, 2004)

Hi Casey

I had a dilatation a couple of weeks ago, and it was absolutely fine.  You have to have a general anaesthetic and the procedure takes about 30 mins, and to be honest I was only in slight discomfort afterwards, a bit like period pains.  I had some slight bleeding aswell, but nothing like a period.  I had the procedure done on a wednesday, so took thursday and friday off work.  To be honest apart from feeling a bit tired wednesday night I was fine, and went out on the thursday for a pub lunch with hubbie.

I felt a little daunted about the thought of having a general anaesthetic, but honestly it was fine. (apart from the paper knickers you have to wear, YUK)


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## susy (Nov 23, 2004)

Marie,
I got a BFN today after our first ICSI,not that I expected a BFP, age is not on my side and my FSH is high-e/c mearly abandoned, 1 frostie only.
I feel like you it is so unfair and its hard when all friends/colleagues/family all seem to have them when they want-why us? I keep saying to myself that I'm not a bad person and its not as though I have had an easy life-why more pain?
I cannot be positive all the time like some are but that is possibly just me!
Like alot of the girls say on here, the only way is not to give up yet.
Susy.


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## HHH (Nov 13, 2004)

Marie + everyone else

Have skimmed through this thread because it's all too close too home to bear to read properly . On the other hand what a wonderful suprise to find so many others feel like i do.

Marie - the thing that makes me most angry is your dr. UNBELIEVALBLE. I had a failed ICSI in Aug after 4 yrs of ttc. After 3 months of trying to get on with life I went to the drs, told her how awful i felt ( cried quite a lot actually!) and have been signed off work for 2 weeks. She said it was a massive thing to deal with.

I have found an infertility counsellor nearby through a website -british Infertility counselling network- and paid £30 for a one hour session - what a relief I'm not being silly, I'm not being weak, yes other people have all sorts of things to deal with but my failed ICSI in her words was a 'monumentous' event and it's O.K to feel like I do.

Please Please Please don't listen to your dr, this is such a huge. emotional and life changing journey we're on you need to feel you can get all the support you need. 

Iwould recommend finding a counsellor, go back to your GP or if you can afford it look on that website or the British Association for Counselling website which will list people in your area. ( even if nothing else it'll give dh a rest for a while!!)

Let me know how things go
Thanks to all of you for being so honest here
Love to you all
HHH


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## loopyloo (Sep 22, 2004)

i have just sat and read through this thread, I've not cried so much since i got bfn a few weeks ago, you ladies are fantastic, you have all had real naff stuff but you battle on - not that it feels like it at times! i have been their on quite alot of your experiences, bfn after ivf, m/c last year, med termination many years ago etc.. my god it hurts like hell, to the lady who said getting a bfn was like a m/c i agree completely, it did bring back all the memories, feelings etc.. of last year when i m/c at 18 weeks, but with the niggly feeling of somethings missing. Everybody's experiences are very very different and i have learnt that everyone copes in different ways, mines to act like nothings happened!!! this probably doesn't make sense at all, I'm sorry i am just rambling, i cant quite explain how i feel, this thread had really hit home with me and its thrown my normal composure (the happy face we have to show), Thinking of all you ladies and partners, and really wishing you all the peace, happiness and dreams you all so deserve.


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## clarebear (Oct 22, 2003)

hi girls 
Iv also been reading ur postings,my feelings are the same ,we have had 4 icsi treatments ,this one resulted in a bfp ,but about 2 weeks later,i lost them ,i was so gutted the pain was so intense, what makes matters worse ,dp wont adopt,he wont do another icsi and he wont do sperm donation,( male factor with us.) im more gutted he wants us to live child free ,im still only 31 ,and i cant accept this yet,and im getting really angry at him ,whenever i bring the subject up, its like a swear word ,eventually managed to get him to look into it ,he said he will but dosent think ,it will make much difference to how he feels,i just think he is being unfair ,and i too have thought about leaving him, but its just so hard ,when u love somone 
but then ,is love enough? people have said to me,i want a family more than dp,but its not like that ,im willing to give up ,the biolgycal thing and not ever carrying a baby of my own ,cause i love him,but when he is saying ,no no no!! what am i surpose to do ,pretend to be happy ,i belive its a choice you ,both have to be happy with ,(living child free) not for one partner to decide that,sorry to go on ,but wanted to show you ,that we are all normal and it was nice to read that i am too, x


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## emmacg (May 11, 2004)

Dear all

Reading this today after getting a negative on my third ivf attempt last week has been really comforting to know that everyone feels the same way.  

My husband and I are unexplained TTC 4 years and we have had every test we can think of.  

Despite their not finding problems with either of us, I do think he thinks its some problem with me that they havent quite diagnosed yet.

Our consultant told us that she thinks we were a couple who it will for work eventually (not much comfort really - I wish she hadnt said that), but my husband doesnt want to try again at the moment, not even to try FET with the 3 we have.  He says he is just too upset and wants us to get on with our lives and he would think about it in another years time.  I feel that it is too early to give up and all I can do is hope that he will come round.  I am 37 and dont want to waste too much time.  Its horrible that it feels that once you start with all this treatment that you can't take a break because of age.  

I love him very much and I am so glad I married him despite all the IF problems, but I too have thought what if I had an affair or found a donor to see if that worked.  Then of course, I have felt like the most horrid person on earth for thinking it.

Its so good to know that its not just me that feels such resentment.  My little sister is pregnant and due in January - she told me that she had started to try secretly behind her boyfriends back because of my problems and it worked for her the first month. (the fact that she chose my wedding day to announce her pregnancy to the family and to tell me that story is a whole other story!!).  I can't bear to go near her at the moment - she has carried on smoking and drinking and I have got to the stage where I cant stand anyone mentioning her name I am so jealous.  It just feels so unfair.

Its so good to read that other people go through the same thing and that maybe I am not a completely selfish monster that I feel sometimes.

Em


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