# Is this it...?



## Luisa8

I'm really struggling with this "Moving on" business....

I just recently got my 7th negative from a Donor cycle. Although I've struggled with every BFN in their own way, this one is nothing in comparison. After every other BFN I've known that sooner or later I would be trying again so the hope was still there. For this last cycle I have had to get a loan and so for financial reasons I'm having to face the fact that this is it. It's over!  If I won the lottery tomorrow I would all go on trying and trying but this last time we did Double Donor & Neopogen which I thought would be our magic recipe and after 6 failed DE cycles and this DD cycle I also need to face the fact that there is something seriously wrong with me and my case is not normal. I could keep on trying and it might never work! Even Penny is reluctant to let me cycle again!  

I've hardly left the house in a month. I don't want to see friends. I'm very bitter, angry, scared, ashamed and just very very sad. I'm scared to put myself in situations that will upset me so the easy solution is to stay home and feel sorry for myself. Even going to the supermarket is an ordeal at the moment. 
I just feel like there is no point to this existence of being child free and don't see the point in anything anymore.... Don't get me wrong, I'm not suicidal or anything but I do feel the only thing keeping me going are my little dogs and if anything happened to them....well, I wouldn't be bothered if I didn't wake up the morning.

I'm just wondering if this will get easier......or is this it?


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## CrazyHorse

Just wanted to stop by and offer you a hug.  

Can you get in to see a counselor? It sounds like you're grieving pretty hard, and I imagine your husband is experiencing his own difficult feelings as well -- it might be good to unload on a third party who doesn't have a personal investment in what you've been going through.

I'm glad you have your wee doggies, and I hope you feel a little bit better soon. I know it won't be sunshine and roses anytime soon, but I hope it won't be too long until you feel like each new day isn't just a burden you have to struggle through.


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## Luisa8

Thank you for replying CrazyHorse. I have thought about counselling but I live in Spain so not so easy and three times the price....

DH seems to have accepted it tbh. I don't know if it's the fact that he doesn't look further into the future than next week   or if he had just had enough....

xxxx


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## Molly99

Luisa, you poor thing, I guess that it is a bit of both.  

I have written your post almost word for word over and over and over.  Facing moving on is utterly terrifying isn't it.  I am so sorry that you are here too, even though we think about it all of the time during treatment, it is something else entirely when it becomes a cold reality.

I've been facing it since the end of June and I can honestly say that these have been the blackest months of my life, and that is saying something.  Whatever nastiness effects you in the past, you always have hope or dream that one day things will change.  It sounds dramatic but this effects your very soul and who you are.  I don't know about you but I didn't have a plan B, I was always so sure that I would have a biological family, I never once imagined in my wildest dreams that this would be it.

What I can say, and I still can't quite believe that I am feeling it, is that something does start to change.  I almost want to say gets easier there (perhaps a sign that it does?!) but it's not easier, maybe its just the rawness that starts to heal.  I've spent months avoiding any social situation, I pretty much became a hermit and couldn't go to work or in town in case I was 'exposed' to something that grated the rawness.  It's a very isolating place to be lovely, I know how you feel    I've got to say that my dogs are the only thing that have got me through too.  I'm so glad that you have them too.

Although you might not feel it right now, I certainly didn't, there is always hope that you can be happy in life. This is grief lovely, it helped me to understand the stages of it, even though it hurts to have to.  I haven't been able to think of a plan B yet, I've just switched to TTC naturally  , I've given us 6 months where we do absolutely everything and then I will be ready I think to say that DH finally gave it everything that he has and that may help me to move on.

I spoke to a senior lady manager in my work and she told me that she went through this 20 years ago and she still feels it greatly but that time does heal.  That phrase used to make me feel really angry but I guess that it is true.

I tried counselling and it wasn't for me.  I think that I need to go through this in my own time and in my own way.  The only thing that I have found that helps is to talk to people who understand.  Keep talking lovely xxxx


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## Alotbsl

Hi Luisa, I'm so sorry to hear you are going through such an awful time, it's just not fair. Please give yourself time, I presume your last cycle was fairly recent so you really do need time to grieve. big   To you.


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## Luisa8

Thank you Molly and Alotbsl  

Molly, I've used up all my plan b's. My first plan b was to remove one tube, then the other, then DE, then immunes, then DD, then neupogen.... It's almost funny really 
Amongst all that fun we also applied for adoption and got turned turn for economic reasons...Ironic really because if we hadn't been spending s**t loads of money on ivf and trying to become parents we might have a lot more in the bank....
So no plan b's left.....Unless winning the lottery counts  

You hit the nail on the head about how isolating it feels. Fertility is such a taboo subject sometimes and I'm so tired of pretending everything is ok when it isn't. That's why I'm starting to shut myself away...it's easier.

I have 2 little King Charles Cavaliers and I can honestly say they are my babies...I couldn't love them anymore if I'd given birth to them...haha now there's a thought!! They are such loving little things and they keep me going but the negative side of me is already dreading something happening to them.

Thank you for listening xxxxx


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## Isla35

Hi Luisa and Molly

I had my last treatment 2 and half years ago now.  It was actually 18 months ago that I decided to not carry on with any treatment.  Well this time last year I was in the deepest of depressions.  I think it took a few months for it to sink in that I would never be a mother.  When it did start to sink in I was so scared about how depressed I felt and where it would lead me.  At that time I was lucky enough to find support from women who had been there.  I realised that I was dealing with one of the worse griefs you can.  It is a permanent trauma to our very being.  It isn’t like a job loss or an illness, bad at the time but hopefully you will get another job or recover.  It is actually like losing someone you are close to.  It is a profound grief and it will always be there and it will become part of you.  Don’t try to deny it.  Even though society and even our husbands and close family will think it is a disappointment that you should just move on from rather than what it is which is profound and permanent loss.  What you are feeling is completely understandable and you should allow yourself time and space to learn to live with it. 

Now a bit of good news from me.  I have actually made so much progress in the last year I have suprised myself.  There is no road map to grief so I can’t tell you when you will feel better.  I know some women who are still really struggling after many years.  I certainly tried to prepare myself that I would feel deeply depressed for many years but I knew it couldn’t be helped.  

I have amazed myself that I have started to enjoy being around little children in recent months and it hasn’t left me in a heap.  It feels like it is another life now, this is my life and it is different to most people and to what I expected but it is just as valid to me.  It isn’t so much that I have tried to get beyond the grief I feel but more that the grief is still there and it will always be there but I have other things too. They are all getting bigger and louder.  It means that although I still feel the same way about being childless it isn’t overwhelming most of the time.  Some days recently it has hardly registered.  There have been a couple of days in recent months where I have been floored by grief.  But a year ago I was like that all the time, now it is the odd day and I think it feels more shocking because most of the time I am OK with it.  

I think going through trying to conceive and years of fertility tests and treatment takes over our lives.  Other things get pushed away. All our money, our energy and our time is dedicated to achieving this dream.  When it ends there is a huge emptiness in ourselves and in our lives and when the grief kicks in it just fills that emptiness.  It will take time and work but you need to start filling your life with other things gain.  Other goals, passions and joys so that the grief can no longer dominate your life but be a manageable part.

For me this is something I am still working on but it has so far been going better than I expected.  I am fully expecting more pain and adjustment to come though.  I have friends that have not really been interested in having children but now the biological clock is ticking are having them “because they might regret if they don’t”.  This is really hard to deal with on many levels.  I am forty next year and wonder if that will play on my mind.  I try to anticipate what will upset me but often these days it is in unexpected ways.
Well I am sorry for the huge ramble.  I just remember that when I  was moving on there weren’t many people who had “moved on” on these forums.  I guess by the very nature of moving on it is hard to stay on these forums.  

Look after yourselves. 
Isla


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## Luisa8

Hi Isla,
Thank you so much for your post. It made me   but in a nice way.......a "feeling understood" kind of way, if that makes sense. You have described everything so perfectly and I just hope to be able to post something similar in a years time. 
I feel so lonely and isolated trying to deal with this and hearing that someone knows exactly how you feel makes all the difference.
Thanks again
xxx


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## Molly99

Isla, thank you also for your wonderful post.  It is so good to hear some positiveness  

You're right, it does seem like there are so few women who are truly having to 'move on' on these forums.  Sometimes I feel like I'm in the wrong place,  I guess whilst I still have that stupid bit of hope it will be hard to move on elsewhere.  The letting go of this website will be a huge thing for me    I don't feel ready to move onto something like Gateway Women, as stupid as it probably sounds, that would mean that I have reached a level of acceptance that I'm not ready for yet.

I love what you said about grief, it really resonated.  It is so true, no one seems able to understand or grasp the fact that this is something for life and that it will always be painful.  I find myself getting really upset about the fact I'll never be a Nanna now.  My DH feels that we just need to get to a happy place and stop feeling sad but how do you when the future is as scary as the present?

I didn't believe the whole biological clock thing, well I did but I thought that it was an emotional state.  What I've found is that it is mostly physical, that makes it even harder to live with.

Still, live with it I have to and you give me hope.  The fact that you have found a life beyond the one that you imagined is incredible and I feel inspired by you  

Sending you a huge   Luisa.  You sound so alone lovely.  Reaching out to people here keeps me going sometimes.  I'm always here to listen if you need to talk xxx


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## tlw

Hi Louisa (and everyone else that has posted on here). My history of ttc is very close to yours.  I have been battling for almost 20yrs now to make that dream come true  .

Yesterday I got my last and final BFN after my 8th round of IVF.  Last year I did get pregnant, once with twins in April, then a singleton in July but lost both pregnancies before 8 weeks.

I am a bit numb at the moment- I suppose it is a bit of shock that it didn't work (as believe me we threw everything at this cycle) and the despair of knowing this is the end.  I can relate to you saying 'what is the point' of anything/everything.  I have just spent so long planning our next treatment- waiting for the dream to come true.....I can't seem to get my head around how I move on now.

Sorry I am not helping your situation Louisa- I just wanted you to know that I know exactly how you feel- and you are not alone.  Not only that- but I live in Spain too.....my family are in America and are unaware of my failed IVFs (they know about my miscarriages)- so I have no-one to confide in about the depth of my grief and despair at the moment.

My DH is grieving too- but he is so worried about me and how I will cope- and that makes the pain even harder to bear.  I feel I have let him down too by my inability to maintain a pregnancy.  

It gives me hope- reading the other posts on here- that it does get easier- and that I may eventually reach an 'acceptance' of how it is.  I have a lovely life here in Spain- and I feel guilty that it isn't enough for me.  I also have to come to terms with the fact I was diagnosed with two blood clotting problems (Factor V Leiden and Antiphospholipid Syndrome) following my miscarriages- that impact on my future health and well being.  So lots for us to deal with at the moment.

Big hugs to you all


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## Luisa8

Hi tlw,
Firstly a massive   to you. So sorry to hear you are in the same kind of situation. We do have a bit in common by the sounds of things..I also am Factor V Leiden + although I have to say I'm a bit ignorant on how this may affect me health wise....
Do you mind me asking why you have decided it is your last cycle? Is it because of all the heartache or financial reasons....not that it matter really. The despair is the same. I too feel I have let DH down and feel an incredible amount of guilt at how my "baby unfriendly" body will affect his life. I'm conscious too that it isn't really my fault but the feeling is the same.
It's been about 6 weeks now since my BFN and I just seem to be going down hill to be honest.....I had a total breakdown on Friday because a close friend announced her 2nd pregnancy. I remember breaking down 6years ago at her 1st pregnancy announcement. We had been trying about 4 years then and down probably about 3 cycles of IVF. I totally ruined her moment and here I am 6 years later doing the same! I'm pleased for her of course. She'd been trying a couple of years so I kind of knew it could be on the cards but the hurt and slap in face kind of feeling still hit me and sent me 5 paces back in the road to feeling a little better....
I can't say anything to make you feel better but maybe we can help each other somehow. It is a comfort just knowing we aren't the only people in the world feeling like this.
I'll PM you
Take care
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## tlw

Hi Luisa,
Thanks for your message  .  Our last IVF treatment last July that led to a single pregnancy followed by mc was going to be our last cycle.  Money being the main issue- we are 'semi retired' here in Spain until I rapidly began spending our retirement funds on IVF and tests.  After the miscarriages (and more tests) they discovered my blood clotting issues (FVL and APS)- and of course the clinic came up with 'solutions' to ensure my next IVF would work.

I felt we had to give it 'one last' try- which we did- and I didn't even get a BFP.  We both felt cheated at not getting pregnant (after 2xBFPs with our last two cycles)- so decided for 'one last last attempt'.

So we did everything humanly possible this time 'round- antibiotics, steroids, Clexane, aspirin, Intralipid infusions....and so on....to end up with an even more depleted bank account and still no BFP.

You have to stop somewhere- and emotionally (and financially) we are at that point.  I am 45yrs old next birthday.  My FVL and APS do not generally affect me on a day to day basis YET.  With the two conditions the chances are 50:50 that I will have a blood clot. As I get older those odds get worse.  I could battle on and try for another of couple of years to get pregnant- but what if I have a stroke and can't care for a child (or worse still die and leave my poor DH caring for it).  Being pregnant increases my risks of problems and future clots.  Am I prepared to risk me and/or my baby dying to achieve my desire to have a child?.........a painful question-but there comes a point where the answer has to be 'no'.

I don't want to scare you- if you only have hetero FVL you have only a slight risk of clotting issues- most people with FVL never have any symptoms and never have any clots.  I am at elevated risk due to having Antiphospholipid Syndrome too.  As long as you look after yourself (keep at a healthy weight, low cholesterol, keep hydrated, never take oestrogen containing oral contraceptives or HRT, inject Clexane before/during/after long haul flights etc) you should be fine- and be able to carry on as normal!

I had a meltdown last night- opening my ** page and seeing the photo of a friends newborn baby.  DH reaction was pretty much 'get used to it as people can't stop having babies just because we can't'.  He didn't say that- but it is how I heard it.  I know he is right- but the pain on seeing that photo was so real- like a knife in my heart...and I just sobbed and sobbed.

I know it will get easier- it has to- I can't go on every day like this (not without ending up in an institution or on medication).  I recovered from my miscarriages- I never thought I would- that grief was the worst I could imagine.  This grief is different- it is grieving for something you never had, as opposed to something you have lost.  Still profound and soul destroying- more of a helplessness.

Glad we can be here for each other on our new miserable journey to find some sort of fulfilment in our lives


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## Candy76

Hi All, I haven't been on fertilityfriends for ages.
The posts on this thread really resonated with me.

We didn't have a plan b. We are an all female couple and were in our early 30th when we started. Clinic loved having us, no tests done to check out fertility, our own concerns got dismissed. 7 years and a lot of heartache later and savings gone ...

Neither of us has family nearby, so we went out of our way to get to know people with kids to build up a network of friends.

I am not unhappy that often. But time just runs past now. I haven't seen any friends for ages. There is no going outside with the kids and there never will be. I really miss that. Everything we have worked for over the last years suddenly seems to have lost it's purpose. I am sure part of it is emotional exhaustion.

So, yes, things do get easier. My heart doesn't ache all the time and I hardly get those moments of complete meltdown any more (which I mainly have due to m/c rather than childlessness). But I think it also takes some active searching of how you would like your life to look like. We have some sort of ideas - moving country, reducing working hours (would spend the money on the kids, so obviously don't need it all). Waiting for the day where its acceptable to bring a dog to work, would so love to have a dog.

Thinking aloud:
I think what you now make of your life also depends on your personality. I am very introvert and I don't mind being withdrawn for a while - but I am sure its not good for me. However, family life in a sense of living out my life with a few close souls would have suited me nicely. Now I have to suddenly become more active and be out there. I think that's one of the things that doesn't come naturally and I have to get used to.

I hope this makes a bit of sense.

Thinking of all of you   and hope we all have at least one happy moment tomorrow.


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## Luisa8

Hi Candy,
Thank you for your message.  
I just find this so very very sad...not just for me but everyone in this situation. It's so taken for granted, forming a family. I never thought for a minute I would have to live this life. The stubborn part of me really doesn't want to live it.... if this is it....
Thank god for my dogs, I really recommend a dog or two to vent all the built up maternal instincts


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## Butterfly girl

Hi Luisa,tiw, Isla and Molly ,
All your posts ring true to me and its comforting to know I'm not alone.
Today I found out that my journey is over.

I've had 3 DD BFNs followed by a DD BFP that miscarried at 6 weeks. After that I
Had a 7 week missed miscarriage after my 2nd ultrasound.

Today I got my Beta result from my 6th and final DD embryo transfer.
It was a BFN.

Now I'm numb. I can't believe its over and I've got nothing to show for all the physical, emotional and financial pain I've been through.

I don't have a partner or family to talk about it with. It's near Christmas and Ill be doing a lot of acting.

I know eventually it will get better but at the moment it's just so sad.

CButterfly Girl


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## Luisa8

Hi Butterfly Girl
Im so sorry for taking so long to reply. I saw your message when i was about to board a plane and then Xmas got in the way and so here i am now

Im so sorry to hear about your BFN. Thats a LOT of failed cycles and upset you have had and i certainly know how that feels so a big hug to you. If you feel anything like me you'll be breathing a big sigh of relief that Xmas is over. I feel so sad saying that because Xmas should be a happy time. I know i have my health, i was with my family, but the empty ache i have just feels so big at this time of year and everything so pointless. 

Sorry...im probably not helping here and making you feel worse. I just wanted to say you are not alone. I have a Partner but in all honestly sometimes i feel its as if i didnt. Especially where this is concerned.  

If you ever need a break from pretending everything is ok (i know the strain of that!) please do get in touch....or anyone else xxxxx

On phone so cant write more 
Love to all xxxx


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