# Gay man seeks advice



## D&amp;P

Hi everybody

I found this site and wanted to see if I could get some advice.

I am 44, a gay man in a very happy long-term relationship (11 years) and have wanted to co-parent (with a female) for quite some time now.  I was offered the chance to co-parent in my early thirties with a straight friend of mine but felt very differently about fatherhood back then and sadly missed that ideal opportunity.  I have refrained from doing much about becoming a father in most of the intervening time as I have been studying for a doctorate which I finally completed earlier this year.  Now the longing to have my own children has returned and I really should look into whether it could be a possibility.

I’m unsure about whether I can father a child (having never tried) so I guess I should go for some tests.  Do I need to see my GP about this even though I’m not in a ‘conventional’ relationship or can I get this done at somewhere like a Genito-Urinary Medicine clinic instead?  I have half jokingly said to several of my female friends over the years about co-parenting and did actually meet someone a couple of years ago who I thought would make the perfect choice.  

I actually tentatively broached the subject with her this weekend to see whether this could be a possibility but wasn’t sure of her actual age.  She has just turned 45 and has never had children.  She admitted that she would have liked to have them but had never met the ‘right’ man.  I think her reaction was largely overshadowed by her believing that it is too late for her.  Is she right to think this categorically or should I encourage her at least to seek some advice from somewhere (?) and maybe also to get some tests done to see whether it may not be too late?  Presumably we would go down the IUI route if there is a chance?  We both live in the same London borough and I’m wondering if we may make more headway if we present ourselves more as a couple as opposed to a single heterosexual woman and a gay man? Finally, my friend is originally from Sweden which presumably may offer us another route to co-parenting if we are deemed to old here?

Thanks in advance for any advice.


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## lesbo_mum

Hi Stuart

I dont have the answers to most of your questions but i wanted to say welcome!

I think your friend should start off by seeing her GP to see if the GP can help.... she may well to too old and may need Donor eggs but she would need tests to check her FSH levels etc.

If you contact your GP re your fertility tests they will be able to refer you to the correct area... be warned you may need to pay for this depending on your PCT's rules.

If your friend is not a option have you thought of finding another lesbian couple to co parent with? Im sure there are hundreds of couples who would like to co parent with a nice gay male couple.

Em x


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## Pinktink

Hi there  

I would think that if it something your friend wants to do there are tests she can have done to examine her own fertility - FSH is a good indicator but AMH is a good test of ovarian reserve to basically tell her about her egg quality aswell...she could get these done privately through a fetility centre for a few hundred pounds... 

If donor eggs are the best option for her which is likely you could look at being an egg sharing recipient if you have the funding between you as the waiting times are greatly reduced...

As said by Emma though I'm sure there are lots of lesbian couples/single women who would consider co-parenting - I believe there are some websites which can be a good place to start for known donors and co-parents - I don't know any but I'm sure someone will put them up for you!

PT

PS I'm a midwife and recently delivered a lady of 49 - natural conception so it really is down to the individual!

good luck xx


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## Damelottie

Hello Stuart

My first choice was to co-parent. I'm single and spoke to 2 gay couples, and one single gay man. None of them worked out so I just went it alone in the end, but there are def people like me out there  

However, its more than possible to try with your friend. As Pinktink said - the basic fertility tests for you both would be a good place to start.

JJ1 is doing this. I'm sure she will be along with some helpful advise.

LL x


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## Misspie

Hi Stuart, 

Welcome to FF, you'll find most things you need here, and everyone is very friendly and willing to help 

This was something we ventured with to start with. Our friend was single and gay and wanted to start a fanily the same as us, we had a few attempts but towards christmas last year he found himself in a relationship, which we couldn't hold him back for, he's very much in love and the pressure involved in starting a new relationship and a family was a bit much for all parties. So we diecided to go start the journey with just us.

At the time, it was certainly the right decision and we wouldn't have thought any different but have changed our views recently.

There are certainly plenty of couples and single people out there who are in the same situation you just need to find them.

good luck on your journey, have you thought abt surrogacy too?

L
x


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## snagglepat

Hi Stuart,

We initially tried to conceive with a good friend of ours who lived in London (we were based in Birmingham at the time so there was quite a bit of driving involved). He got his sperm count tested at a private clinic that was recommended by his GP and paid something in the region of £100 for it, so it might be worth asking your GP initially. The other tests are your regular STI ones and you can get those done at any GUM clinic for free. You may have to pay a small fee if you want print outs of the results, but it's up to you/your friend as to whether you need that.

Your friend is more towards the older end of the spectrum for conceiveing naturally, but it can and does happen. If you're both keen just the initial tests mentioned above would be worth doing, and they could be done inside a month or so. If she has regular cycles there's nothing stopping you from trying at any time anyway - we tried for two months before we got our friend's sperm count done (and it was fine) so although you run the risk of trying with sperm/eggs that are just not up to it, you may well both be fine and it'll mean you can crack on straight away. A 5 or 10ml syringe and a sterile sample pot really is all you need in the equipment stakes. It's how we conceived our daughter. 

I wish you all the best with it, and please do stick around and keep us posted on your journey. 

Gina. x


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## ♥JJ1♥

Stuart welcome to the thread.  

I am not going into a 'co-parenting' relationship strictly in the terms as such, but TTC with my gay friend as a known donor (who is in a committed, monogamous relationship of 17 yrs) for the last 4-5 yrs.  I did consider co-parenting with another (gay) friend as he was early 30's and desperate to become a father, but he was from Aus and I do believe he would be a fantastic Dad to a child, in the back of my mind was 'what if he wanted to emigrate home again in years to come'.  In fact he later met and married a younger American man and I guess things could have turned out even more complicated.  I also didn't want to 'share' my child half the week - if you know what I mean, and he wanted 50-50 time.

I therefore went with my first friend, and he and his partner have been fantastically supportive, I'd have gone mad without them!!  .  My journey has taken up to numerous clinics, with twists and turns, across several countries, but they have always been there for me, my donor's partner has been at ever anaesthetic with me, travelled to Spain with me on my last trip, usually it is the 3 of us all go together, I have 32 frozen vials of sperm stored in 3 clinics in 2 countries (I also have all the posthumus forms signed so have the rights to it- there are legal things to consider).  

I guess you need to decide what involvement you want with the child- ie; them living with you half the week, or some holidays, where you live and practicalities, financial issues, the impact of future relationships for both parties, both your views on religion, education, names.  Many people draw up agreements and consult lawyers before starting this so that everyone is clear what they want, and Natalie the fantastic fertility friends lawyer will be a great person or starting point to help on this side of things.

Re: tests, I do wish that we had of had the basic tests first - for you a sperm test and sexual health tests , your GP or a private clinic for about £100 will let you know the count and quality of your sperm, for us we had sexual health checks at the local GUM clinic and then started home insems (incidentally we don't live in the same town  I live in London they live on the South Coast, so mad rushes 3 consecutive days when I detected a LH surge indicating ovulation was about to occur and you also have to discuss your joint availability and for how long you are prepared to try etc) after 4 months I decided to go to the clinic as a private pt as a known donor.  It was then we had a sperm test done and he has a low sperm count, so ICSI was our only option.  But I continued with my known donor as the reasons I chose him were for his personal qualities and not just sperm count and these still stand it jsut means that we need IVF and ICSI.  In a way it was less stressful at the clinic as out of my hands.  I got pregnant on my first IVF cycle but I later miscarried.

So I would strongly recommend that you have a sperm test there are andrology centres in Harley Street etc

As for your lady friend who is 45 yr old, she should go to a Dr or a clinic (most private clinics or gynaecologists (I can recommend some if you want) will run a basic bloods- AMH will give you an indication of ovarian reserve, LH and FSH, prolactin and oestrodial - maybe her GP might do them- but not necessary and they are not obliged to) will do basic fertility tests.  The chances of conceiving naturally at 45 are v v reduced using your own eggs, but it can happen. Also some clinics have age restrictions most would treat up to 45-48 ish here, but overseas they will treat older ladies into their 50's. When you mention IUI are you referring to AI at home or IUI at a clinic.

We have been to some clinics as we are, me single woman, and him my known donor, as I didn't want a child conceived in an unauthentic way and as a lie and they will treat us, but then I wanted to increase my chances and some of the top UK clinics will not treat single women so we had to go as 'partners' but be prepared to answer questions on your sex life, relationship and how long you have been together, when you last had sex- for us we had a known problem low sperm count and 2 failed previous  IVF's so it was ok for us and they tended to focus on this more.  

Also if you think going as a couple may mean that you could get NHS care, it is unlikely at all as the NICE guidelines for IVF are for ladies in a relationship (some same sex couple get pct funded treatment) but 40 for a woman is the treatment age limit and there are long waiting lists. So do work out financially that you may have to pay for this treatment.  Also financially I pay for everything, as it will be my baby and I have spent well in excess of £50-60K on treatment and associated care.  My donor and his partner would be involved in the child's upbringing but don't want children of their own living in their home etcI am 40 and now we are onto using donor eggs and have womb damaged from surgery after my miscarriage. 

Surrogacy is a difficult ball game in this country and do consult with Natalie if you need advice on this aspect, I have explored it but as a single or unmarried woman it is legally impossible to get a paretnal order , for a man as a genetic father or gay couple it may be different.

It seems hard, there are website and lots of book on co-parenting, and some workshops- look up Pink Parents, D'Arcy Laine Foundation, Rainbow Parents, Lisa Saffron is a UK author who has written a lot on the subject and will give email/telephone consultations as well as running workshops.

A lesbian friend of mine also considered co-parenting with her straight single friend, but he then got a girlfriend in her 40's with no children and she said a few times 'It'll be lovely when our baby comes along' so she changed her mind and went to London Women's clinic and used donor sperm, she in fact later ended up in a same sex relationship and her partner also used the same donor sperm so they now have siblings.

I would advise you to think hard about, research the subject there is a lot of literature mainly US about co-parenting, get basic tests done, consider if you want to try with the older lady and the reduced chances,

If you want to be a Dad and don't mind if it is not your own genetic child, single and gay couples are approved as adopters so might also be an option for a family.
Good Luck and do pm me if I can be of any help.

L x


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## leoaimee

just wanted to say ... hi and welcome and good luck.

look forward to hearing from you next

aimee


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## Misspie

Hi Stuart, 

we are all here for you to discuss your feelings and help out with advice where we can. Fell free to join us on the general chat thread!

I understand your position, but our friend was gay and we certainly had no issues, just that he got tested prior us starting and that he stayed true to his word, as it's a risk AI with a non regular suxual partner. Hence the reaason we discussed his new relationship, and the time scales involved if we wanited, we would have put us back a year plus!!! Now he is moving to Scotland and the distance would have been a nightmare!

You can buy the syringe and pot on ebay - bizarre I know, but one of the cheapest. type in "Artificial Insemination AI Kit Fertility Home Pregnancy"  this is where we got ours.

Hope this helps, and good luck with your friend.

Lorna
xx


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## leoaimee

stuart 

we got our pot from a cupboard ... i think a clean glass is fine ... and syringe from the chemist.  we also tried once with a friend of ours ...    

sorry to hear about your mummy.

and good luck talking things through with your partner ... would have thought it would be quite a big thing to discuss with him.  

and good luck with your nordic friend!

axxx


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## ♥JJ1♥

Stuart  I wouldn't trust a  home sperm test, but you can walk into an andrology centre there are 2 in Harley street, any private clinic TDL, HCA lab or GP might do it for you, or even Zita West clinic (fertility guru).  There are so many tests that you can have done on sperm but a simple count etc at a clinic would tell you the basics, you could go further and have chromosome tests, DNA fragmentation (to show the toll lifestlye choices like drinking and smoking have had on it.  Also my donor had a higher than average leucocyte count on one specimen (due to anal sex with his partner) but then had a course of prophylactic antibiotics and the leuc count was reduced so they were happy to go ahead and freeze it.

As for syringes etc ask your GP for a sterile pot (the posts they give out for urine specimens) and a syringe, if not Surrogacy UK and many other sites sell kits and fact sheets- Pink parents do like the tips on let the sperm liquify for 20 mins after ejaculation, how long it can remain out of the body, tips for her and to abstain for usually 48 hrs before.

Have you and your partner also looked into surrogacy?

Your friend probably does need some thinking time and I would even suggest you all go to a session with a counsellor to explore your feeling and the practicalities.  They often ask the questions we haven't thought of.  If you google BICA - british infertility counselling ass there is the list of many counsellor in your area.  I found this help me frame my thinking I can give you some names in London if you are interested.

Natalie the FF lawyer on here would also be able to give you some good advice re rights and agreements.

As a heterosexual woman, who is single and has wasted time on searching for Mr Right I am happy with my decision to TTC with my donor and his partner being involved.  I am not sure how I would feel if he and his partner had more children elsewhere, haven't though of this.

If your partner wants children as well would you not consider a surrogate (or your friend if her AMH and bloods are ok) and donor or her eggs - you'd have to have IVF and both sperm used to fertilise embryos, but this way your children would be related by mother's eggs?  My lesbian friends have used the same Donor sperm for their IVF and have 2 siblings with the same genetic Dad carried by both mums.

Good Luck

L x


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## leoaimee

hay stuart!

its really hard for men in your situation to have a family i really feel for you.  as i do for my friend who we decided NOT to have a family with in the end ... we have really drifted since that happened.  was hard.  

im sure you did the right thing asking your sweedish friend was definately worth asking otherwise you would have been wondering all along.

im sure its poss to find someone you can connect with to co-parent with.  i agree in someways finding someone you already feel a bond with may seem easier but i think in other ways starting a fresh with a new person could also bring its positives.

maybe rather than finding a surrogate to have babies for you and your partner, you may find a woman (or a lesbian couple) who would have babies with you and your partner for you to co-parent together.  i know of a gay (male) couple who both fathered children with a lesbian couple and they all parent them.  i wouldnt worry about whether the children look alike or not, no one believes me and my sister are related cos we look so different and we are full genetic sibs, and these days having half sibs is really normal.

the important thing about siblings is having a peer to share your family environment with (in my opinion!).

snagglepat found her known donor through a website (i think) ... maybe she or someone else will be able to advice about how to find someone who would like to co-parent.  i really think there must be loads of people out there, and its just a case of finding the right one.  easier said than done i reckon.     but you gotta try right?

axxx


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## roisin

Hi Stuart,

there is a website called "co-parent match" that might be useful.  There is also one (name is not so nice) called "Free Sperm Donations Worldwide" - however there are people on there who are looking not just for a donor but a co-parent.  Also, though you may be a very private person, it might be good to spread the word that you want to co-parent because you never know which friend of yours might just tell the right person. 

For when you do find the right lady to have a baby with: Create Health clinic in Wimbledon do a "one stop" assessment - they'll do the FSH and AMH tests and do a scan of the lady's uterus to check if blood supply is normal, of the ovaries etc.  They also do sperm checks as part of the "one stop". I think that this would be useful as often, as far as I know, people don't do these scans until problems show up - so best to have them in the first place.  However, I don't know what their policy is on co-parenting.  

Hope this helps

x


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## ♥JJ1♥

Stuart Great news that your GP is supportive and helping you.

Re surrogacy the v hard part is finding a surrogate mother, you can only pay them reasonable costs and not but be seen to by the baby- there are threads about this on the main surrogacy board but not more than £15K from what I have read. But maybe ask Natalie the FF lawyer for her expertise. http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=198024.0

Stuart - don't feel bad about asking the lady, after all you have to be open about this, my donor had offered me sperm about 2 yrs before after a few drinks, and would only say this when he was drunk, in the end my friend broached the subject on my behalf and he said 'I've offered her loads of times but she never takes me up on it' and he text me saying if I needed sperm he'd be more than happy to help. Some men are very flattered to be asked to help I have found from friends, some have declined the ladies but said that they were honoured to be asked to help. I hope she takes it as a compliment in the long run that you feel that she would be a great mum regardless.

Now it seems surreal that my sonor and I have been sitting in the clinic today discussing ejaculation frequency, his sperm DNA etc etc. You get over the embarassment v quickly. I remember the first few home insems. Also friends came forward offering sperm when they realised what I wanted from life. I also have some Irish single girlfriends friends and they want 'the whole package'- man, marriage and baby I guess it is personal choice.

Wishing you lots of luck
L x


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## snagglepat

Hi Stuart,

I'm sorry that your friend was too shocked to respond and that idea is going to go no further. We met our donor online and although he doesn't have involvement other than email updates and the odd meet-up there are others out there who are looking for different things. We met our donor through the parenting forums on rainbow network, but there are a number of other sites out there if you dig around.

As for yourself and your partner both fertilising embryos from the same egg donor, it's definitely a possibility, although even if you did implant one of each into a surrogate it's unlikely that both would develop and result in half-sibling-twins. You may be better deciding that one of you would try first, then the other for a sibling a little later. Otherwise you'd both be holding out for the birth to see which of you was the biological father and one of you would end up being very disappointed. Both myself and my partner tried to conceive before we got pregnant with our daughter, but we decided not to try at the same time, mostly for this kind of reason. When one of us was trying the other was wholeheartedly supporting those attempts, rather than also wondering about her own attempts. 

Another one of the advantages for us of choosing a donor rather than a co-parent is that our daughter is just ours. This means that my partner, as the non-bio parent has no-one to compete with in the parenting stakes other than me (and she's used to dealing with me and my quirks), and her role as mother is unquestionable. If there was another parent around who also had a biological relationship with our child that she didn't, it would make her feel much more insecure in her parenting role. It might be worth you thinking about this with regards to your partner. How would one of you having (and raising) a child with someone else impact if the other also desperately wanted to be a father but hadn't had the same opportunity. If you fathered a child, would your partner also be a father to that child? It's not that clear from some of the things you've said where you sit with this. Whether you choose to embark on this together or independently will make an enormous impact on your relationship and future.

I also appreciate where you're coming from by feeling you fit more with an alternative identity than an LGBT one. None of the friends we approached as donors or the donors we actually used were gay in the end, we knew them through other groups of people we were involved with. 

I really do wish you the best on your journey.

Gina x


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## ♥JJ1♥

Stuart so pleased that you are making headway with all your tests and getting the ball rolling.  10 days is a long time fore sperm tests as you cna get them back the next day! 

My donor also commented on the literature and videos provided in 'donation rooms' being a hinderence not a help, so his partner used to leave him material in his bag! 

My donor's partner and I went to a clinic today to ask about donor eggs (my donor was at work) and I was having to answer questions about his health and family history, then about his sexual health with my donor's partner chipping in!!

I would also ask you to email Natalie (FF lawyers) before entering into any arrangements so she can ensure that you have the legal side of things sorted when you have the emotional aspects.

Good luck
L x


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## Pinktink

Congratulations Stuart - that's a really big step!!  

Trust me - on a board where we spend a small fortune on the stuff we all value the worth of decent  



Good luck

Love Lynn & Amber


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## ♥JJ1♥

Great news Stuart

L x


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## Damelottie

Brilliant news


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## lesbo_mum

woo hoo yippi Stuart.. hold onto those boys there like gold dust to us lezzers... like pinktink says we pay a absolutely stupid amount of money for the stuff!


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## leoaimee

great news stuart about the test results!!  

and well done for moving forwards with your chats with your dp!

sounds like its all coming along really well.

love ax


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## lesbo_mum

Hi Stuart

Good to hear from you again and glad you have talked to DP and have started your hunt for that special couple to co-parent with i hope it all works out for you soon.

Keep us updated.

Em x


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## Misspie

Hi Stuart

Well things are certainly moving in the right direction, now you and your DP have spoken. 

Be patient and keep positive, as it's avery long journey that we all take to have our dream.  

As Em said, keep us updated

Lorna
xx


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## mintyfaglady

Hi Stuart,

Great news about the test results and good to hear you and your partner are starting to talk about how this might work out for you both, what you each want and so on.

I do understand that compromising on the co-parenting situation may be your most likely way forwards, but don't give up on your dream of being more actively involved than just a weekend father. I know of a lesbian couple who co-parent with their donor daddies (also a couple). Each woman has borne a child, one by each of the men. All four parents live together in a large house and parent the children together. I don't think their plans started out like that, but all are very happy with the way the arrangement evolved. I think sometimes (often?) in situations where the male co-parent starts out as more of a donor with the odd visit, through love, honesty and a lot of negotiating, everybody becomes closer and moves towards parenting together. I love the way we can queer our perceptions of 'family' and create loving environments to bring up our kids.

Good luck with realising your dreams.

Minty
xxx


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## leoaimee

well said minty!!


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## ♥JJ1♥

Stuart I am so pleased that you are finding like minded women wanting to co-parent.

I would advise you to take the advice of Natalie the FF lawyer on the later point as she is great at this, or you could pm her on here.

Also as a woman aged 41 I have given up on my eggs, but it some women do get pregnant, are you setting a time frame to try with the lady? I had the 'what if the baby had a health problem diagnosed' but we agreed that I want a baby, ideally no parent would want a baby with a health problem or a disability to effect thembut I would take what I was lucky enough to be given- Down syndrome would not be a precluding issue for us at all and as the parents of children with Downs Syndrome they wouldn't swap their little one for the world.  I am more concerned being an older parent and also having a v small family- mum and I - if I died what would happen to the child and how could I ensure that the baby would be cared for if something were to happen to me.

L x


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## leoaimee

hay stuart, 

good to hear from you.  sounds like things are progressing a treat!  

what does your partner think about it all?  

as far as i know my sister gets lone parent credits even though she is married and her husband is on b cert of little one but as he left he status changed .... but its a crucial area.  jj1 is right.

does the woman you have met have a partner?

ax


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## 9£Bundle

Hi Stuart,

I'm so pleased things seem to be heading in the right direction for you. I just wanted to throw in a few things here thta may be of help / or worth considering. Some of it may seem a bit harsh & I'm sorry for that, but I am a bit concerned to be honest. In particular when it comes to the law. You gay guys are on much thinner ice, and at the moment the law doesn't protect you.

If the lady you are currently considering doesn't work out, there are Scandnavian clinics that may be able to match you to a lady (straight or gay). The one I was thinking of in particular is the Stork Klinik, Denmark. This has been set up & run by a lesbian Dr. So they may be more sypathetic. I don't know for sure if they do this from your point of view, but they may be worth asking.

http://www.storkklinik.dk/en/

As far as having 2 dads go; I know of a couple who adopted their son. Believe me when I say that not having a mum really doesn't seem to be an issue. He is a cracking little fella, very comfy in his own skin / sense of identity, he is about to turn 7. That is all down to his dads. They've done a fabulous job. (they adopted him when he was 1 & 1/2 I think. Son certainly never known anything other than his 2 dads.)

Once you've done your homework on the law you may find you & your partner don't want the mother involved. Its just a possibilty.

JJ1 has gently recommended you contact Natalie Gamble a number of times. Stuart - I'm not going to be gentle - you have GOT to learn the legalities.  I say this because I have known such arrangements go belly up when the child was 1 or 2 years old. The law is heavily stacked in favour of the woman that carries the child. I think most of us would be shocked how much so. I'd hate for you to go through all this and end up in a poor position because I didn't kick your bum!

So I know I risk upsetting or offending you, because I can be a bit clumsy at things like this.  But I'd rather take that risk than keep silent.

You may know the law cahnged this year for lesbians. Its not until sometime in 2010 that gay men will be protected under surrogacy arrangements. Check out Stonewalls website. Natalie Gamble helped put their web/legal info together. Basically for a few hundred pounds you could get agreements drwan up to protect your future child. The CAB are clueless about this. In fact I'd say most family solicitors are somewhat behind in their knowledge of gay parental arrangements. Contact Natalie & get informed. Pleeease.

And good luck Stuart. 
9£Bundle

/links


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## 9£Bundle

Forgot to add - I believe if you go on Birth Cert you could be liable for CSA (Child Support). If you are not on Birth Cert you weaken your legal stance. By that I mean if things change in the future you may have to set about "proving" you are the father. So DNA tests & solicitors fees.   post on Natalie's board.

9£B
x


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## 9£Bundle

Great news Stuart - I am really pleased! 

Forgot to give you Stonewalls info:

http://www.stonewall.org.uk/at_home/parenting/2625.asp

Read that bit, & also check out black box on left of screen. Work your way through those sections (surrogacy at the bottom of list), even if doesn't apply direct to your situation I think it will give you a good over-view of what was/is intended by the new law(s). I'm hoping it will give you a better understanding of Natalie's response. And possibly a clearer idea of what to ask - which is key.

And thanks for your reasurances - I'm so relieved.  This planning for parenting lark is so emotive & littered with some very delicate issues. Glad I could be of some help. 
BTW - your Mum sounds a lot like mine was! 

9£Bundle

/links


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## ♥JJ1♥

Stuart I am so pleased that you are making headway and your partner is in support.  I didn't give up on my own eggs lightly, not that you are saying this I think I gave myself 4 cycles of IVF, and 6 months of home insems, but when you can't find  a Dr in the land (and another in the USA) to advise you to go for it, as hard as you might like to commonsense has to prevail.  

I don't find it offensive about disabilities, it takes very special people to bring up and  look after a disabled child, as I am sure some of the mums on FF will tell you, and not everyone is able to, so it best to be honest with each other. My donor is Catholic and I am not but termination was something we also discussed in advance and agreed it wasn't an option for us.

L x


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## blueshoes

Hi Stuart,

I very rarely post on these boards, but after reading your post, I just wanted to say that I'm so sorry to hear what happened today.

In my experience, trying to have a child is so difficult. It can seem that whatever path you take just isn't quite the 'right' path, because of the compromises you have to make, and I guess it must be especially hard for you as a gay man.

I don't have any answers, but all I can say is that I hope something happens for you that provides another opportunity - and I'm sure it will.

Just keep your chin up and don't let go of your dream.

Blue


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## lesbo_mum

Hi Stuart,

I'm so sorry things have not worked out for you.  

As Blueshoes says dont let go of your dream.

Where abouts are you from?

Em x


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## ♥JJ1♥

Stuart I am so sorry to hear that this lady has changed her mind.  Don't give up hope there are lots of women out there who would love to co-parent you just need to find them.
You are not too old to be a Dad and will be a  great Dad to a child.
L x


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## Damelottie

Hello Stuart

The ups and downs of this journey are truely horrendous and I was so sorry to read your post  

Try not to despair and give up. Each down turn needs some grieving time sometimes, and then we find ourselves picking back up and keeping going. I think lots of us can understand the feelings of 'having to start at the beginning again'. Whether its strarting treatment again, trying to meet a co-parent etc etc. Its tough indeed.

Keep in touch with us

LL


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## lesbo_mum

Stuart... I did think you may have fluffed up on your age reading back the thread but i wasnt sure   My friends known donor was 52yrs old and it worked 3rd attempt for them so you still have plenty of time


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## nismat

I'm very sorry to hear that things haven't worked out for you with this lady Stuart, but I hope that you do indeed find that there are still avenues open to enable you to become a dad. It must be so much harder to become a parent as a gay dad than as a lesbian mum, given the biological need for a womb in the equation. But I am sure that there will be other women out there who would be delighted to find a genuine-seeming bloke like you to co-parent with. 

However, I did have to laugh to read that you got your own age wrong!   Either way, you are definitely not too old to play an active role as a father.
My wife was 49 when we became parents - and she has way more energy/patience with our little boy than I do!


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## Damelottie

Stuart said:


> Thank God, I wasn't giving a  sample yesterday as I might well have mistakenly peed in the pot instead.


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## leoaimee

spotted this a bit late!    for you sturart!  it must be very disapointing news.  but dont give up your not too old and you just gotta keep looking!


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## nismat

Hi there Stuart, I think that most male couples tend to look at surrogacy abroad, because trying to find a surrogate in the UK is very tricky. Did you see the recent-ish thread by Adam & Michael posting about their surrogacy in Thailand? The thread is here http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=228493.0 
I'm sure that it would be well worth checking out their blog (and then linking through to others) so that you can find out more about the realities of the world of surrogacy for gay male couples, and get a clearer picture of what your different options might be.
Good luck!


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## katenreb

Hi and welcome, first step get your test done so you know where you stand, we are looking for a donor at the min, but are also happy looking at doing surrogacy for a gay couple if they would like so if your friend doesn't work out don't give up their are women like myself out there that can help you have the child you dream of


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## b&amp;l

Hi Stuart hope that 2011 is a good one for you  x


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