# bfn with 2 perfect blastocysts - what next?



## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

i'd like to ask people's views.
i'm 39 with low a.m.h. (and dropping fast) so don't have time to waste on more and more cycles... 
secondly, i know that many of you have been through much worse so i hope you don't mind this thread. i just feel my time is running out very fast.

options:

1. give up - no!

2. try again - well, what more info would we get? we got 6/7 fertilised eggs, they were all perfect day 3 so we went for day 5. by day 5, 2 perfect blasts which were tasnferred, day 6 - 2 more poor ones and the rest at the previous stage (compacted morula? not sure of term).
this didnt work so we could easily go again and have the same result. 

3. try to think "outside the box" and investigate more therapies, which maybe the conservatuive medical profession here is not open to yet. i have very low TSH for example and know that this could be linked.

4. invetsiagte immunological issues as per Alan Beer 's book - I put a query up about this...  

any other ideas appreciated...

thanks and good luck 

xxx


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

hello, anyone got any thoughs on this? would be much appreciated, thanks


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## saphy75 (Mar 15, 2004)

Hi hun, sorry i haven't got any advice   but i thought i'd send you a   i hope someone can offer some advice sonn

pam xx


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## Ellie.st (Mar 11, 2005)

Dear Anna

I am so sorry about your BFN.    I also had the experience twice of everything appearing to go perfectly (ie good response, good fertilisation, good embies) - only to get a BFN at the end.  We were unexplained with a fairly low FSH despite my age.  Our clinic said that alot was down to luck but I also think it is worth testing to rule out any problems which haven't been discovered yet.  If you've not had them already, it would be worth having the tests which daisyg has listed on the Investigations and Immunology Board (Starting out board) - your GP and clinic should be able to arrange most of them.  

I also had Natural Killer Cell testing done after my second BFN - not the full Dr Beer tests but the tests which Dr ******* in London offers, which are similar to Dr Beer's but not so wide-ranging.  Again, there is more info on immune testing on the Investigations and Immunology board. I think that ARGC and CARE Nottingham can arrange the Dr Beer (Chicago) tests for you although you need to have IVF with them (or at least, I think this is the case - someone will correct me I'm sure if I'm wrong).  I went to Dr ******* as, at that stage, I wanted to continue my IVF tx with the clinic I had been with before rather than moving to ARGC or CARE.  

It may be that nothing shows up but equally, there could be something for which there is a treatment available and which would give you more options. If your results come back OK, then at least you know that you have tried all avenues. PS: I'm not sure about the TSH issues you've mentioned but I bet someone on the Investigations and Immunology board knows about them - definitely worth posting there!!!!

In my case, all my results came back OK.  We went on to have another IVF cycle none the wiser (and pretty much resigned to it not working because of my age and history of BFNs).  I also had problems with a cyst and got fewer eggs and embryos on the third cycle.  Despite all this, we ended up with a BFP, much to everyone's amazement.  The third cycle had the same protocol as the second one (except that we had a Day Two transfer instead of a Day Three one), we were on the same kind of diet/supplement regime, and the only thing really that was different was that I had accupuncture (including the German protocol on ET day), and stayed in bed for three days after.   

Sorry for the ramble.  What I am trying to say is (1) have every test you can manage and (2) be prepared for the fact that it is all a bit of a lottery.  We felt that the most important thing was to explore all avenues so that we knew we had given it our best shot, regardless of the outcome.

Hope this helps a bit.  

Good luck

Ellie


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

That's really helpful; thank you so much Ellie. I need to get on to this quickly for all the age and AMH issues. I don't want to waste 6 months of ivf to find there is eg an immune issue. I will havea look at Dr Sherata's (sp?) website now. 

many congratulations on your little one too. ))))

xx


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

any further thoughts from people about what to try next? 

good luck everyone xxx


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## ctm (Sep 12, 2007)

Hi Anna,

Dont post much on here, bit of a lurker 

I had had 2 ICSI cycles both BFN's The first with EC on Wednesday and ET on Friday with just 1 embie as it was the only one that made it 

The 2nd we had a much better fert rate and we managed to get to Blasts and had 2 lovely blasts put back  Unfortunately it was a BFN aswell  

We are going to try again as we just dont want to give up  My previous cycles were virtually identical drugs wise. This time they have prescribed prednisolone (sp) which is a steroid and its supposed to help with implantation. All we can do is hope that we get our much wanted BFP.

Its entirely up to you and dh hun what you want to do next and im sorry i cant help more but im sending you loads of      and good luck with what you decide to do.

Ctm xx


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2008)

Hi

I'm interested in this post as we are asking ourselves the same question after 2 BFNs with really good cycles - I appreciate IVF / ICSI isnt an exact science but begin to wonder if there is something happening at implantation - which may be there if we were to try to conceive naturally so we wouldnt stand a chance... no-one tells you the things which have been posted on here - all really interesting.... have any of you any updates on the advice here?

I'll have a look on the other threads also as suggested.

Many thanks xx


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

yes the thing is that IVF stats show that most peoepl get to EC, a few fewer get to ET 

BUT


there is there a HUGE drop off in BFPs. 


so something's going wrong at implantation stage for most people.
that's the big issue - either egg quality or immunity or something.
i tend to think the latter because in the past women had babies in their 40s frequently. (eg my greatgrandmother at 49!!)
BUT it was her 8th child! there is something about the body getting used to it all, that modern medicine just doesn't know about yet. 

i also worry that the body naturally selects the best egg or two each month. IVF lets a lot mature that the body wldn't have "bothered" with. Are these the poor quality ones? it's so hard. 


good luck everyone though. )))


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## ctm (Sep 12, 2007)

Just thought I would give you an update 

When I went in for my last follow up I asked about implantation problems. Obviously they would not know if there were any reasons to suggest this as they have done all they can. Anyway, I have been prescribed steroids this time and they supposedly help so am trying that this cycle  Also ask about an extra HCG inj I think that is supposed to help aswell 

Ctm x


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## J-Mo (Feb 23, 2007)

Hi Anna

I too got a BFN today after having 2 blasts put back. Im just so devastated and dont know what Ive done wrong. I thought I had the best chance possible with 2 blasts on board and still my body is so useless that it cant keep them.

Ive been crying all day and dont know how Im going to pick myself up yet again. Right now I cant imagine putting myself through anything ever again.

This hurts so much more than last time.

I dont have any words of wisdom to add, just wanted to let you know that I feel the same way and feel Im running out of time too. I feel like I wasted my life with the wrong man and Ive done it all wrong. If only Id met me second husband 10 years earlier.

Thanks Ellie for your info and comments. Its also great to know there can be success for some of us

Jen x


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## anna the third (Jan 15, 2008)

oh Jen, I wrote you on the other thread. Please do see my other comments. I'm so sorry. Itotally  understand why you are thinking this way and it IS devastating I know. but you MUST take heart from your fab results and the fact you have many more FET attempts waiting for you. Please please don't give up dear; you are producing as good eggs (early on embryowise) as they can find!


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