# Telling the child about Donor



## Kellyhop

Hello,

We are due to start DIVF in the next few months. We have discussed very deeply the fact about telling the child that they were conceived using donor sperm. When we first found out about needing donor sperm we both said that we didn't want the child to know as we don't want them to reject DH. I just wondered how everyone else felt and how people have dealt with it.

Kelly


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## aisling

my mother died when i was four my father remarried - and had more children - i always felt different because my mother who looked after me was not my real mother. it is  a feeling i wouldnt like my child to feel under any circumstances.  it is for this reason that i did not consider having a child by myself - i did not want my child to grow up without a parent as i did. We are going for donor egg and my partners sperm and we are absulutely not telling the child (if wer that lucky) the truth.    truth. i am telling you this because i have experienced what it is like to miss a parent and it does colour your life. babydust to you 
siobhan


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## sweetcaroline

Hi Kelly,

Jayne is a great person to talk to as she has two little boys who were conceived using donor sperm;  she thought she wouldn't tell them but when they arrived she felt differently.  Not wanting to talk for Jayne, however, if you go to page 6 of the Donor board you will find a post on this topic which is really interesting to read.

Of course we're happy to discuss it with you on the donor sperm thread too though!
Caroline x


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## Jayne

Hi Kelly 

As Caroline says, we did initially decide not to tell our child(ren) about how they were conceived, but in all honesty the guilt was just too much for me once my baby was born.  I couldn't lie to him.  I won't repeat all I've said previously as it's on the boards already - will try and find a link to the page Caroline's talking about in a sec.  

I will emphasise here thought, that although I am very much for telling a child how they were conceived, I still respect other people's choice to do things differently.  

Something I thought about though after we had discussions on here recently was that, isn't it odd that how I as a complete stranger to a lot of you will know that your child was donor conceived, yet your own child - the most precious person in your life - won't know this.  Also, what if you've told a close friend or family member and then don't tell your child.  I find those 2 things a bit hard to get my head around, but hey, we all have to make our own choices as to what we feel best for our family    It just adds another angle to it in my mind.  

I really don't think a child would reject your dh at the end of the day.  It will be a long time before that situation could arise anyway, and if you tell your child from a young age, you put the building blocks there from early on and it's something they grow up just knowing    

I hate to compare donor with adoption, because the circumstances are very different, but the telling part is similar, in that it is known if you tell young then the children grow into that knowledge.  

Please do come and join us on the Anyone Else Using Donor Sperm thread    

Wishing you lots of luck in achieving your dream. 

Jayne x


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## Jayne

This is a copy of an IM that I sent to someone recently, which also explains how I feel about this subject 

[quote author="Jayne"]

On the subject of telling, when we first decided on donor we made the decision to never tell, but once Jack became a reality, that decision made me feel incredibly guilty and just before his first birthday we reversed this decision, and have decided to tell. In fact, we started telling Jack - who is now 4 and a half - about 3 months or so ago.

The reason for the change in mind was that pre-pregnancy children were a dream, but once he was here, he was reality and the most precious person in our lives. I couldn't lie to him. I worried myself sick that he'd grow up and work in the hospital where he'd been conceived, find my medical records and find out what had happened. Worried about the future when he was an adult - didn't he have the right to know where he came from. Worried that we had told a very small close circle of family and friends about the donor conception, and how could they know, yet my own child wouldn't know. Worried that the secret would one day come out when he was grown and it would completely destroy my family, as the 2 people he'd truste the most - his mummy and daddy - had lied and deceived him. As you can see, I worried a lot  So ultimately to not tell wasn't the right decision for us.

I am very pro telling, but at the same time can completely respect and understand why some people would chose not to tell. It's just it seems to me that that decision not to tell often stems from trying to protect the husband from any micky taking about not having adequate sperm, etc. but it doesn't really consider what's best for the child. As these decisions tend to be made before a child is born, then I think that's the most natural choice for a lot of people to make.

What I would suggest is that so long as you and your dh are reading from the same book, so to speak, then you don't have to set your decision in stone before you embark on the donor route. Why not just say you'll see how it goes. You have a good 4 years or so into your child's life before they will understand the most basic of information anyway, so why rush the decision.

So, I don't agree with people who don't tell, but I can most definitely support it, and understand reasons for it. I think we all have to do what's right for our family at the end of the day.

Jayne x 
[/quote]


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## Jayne

This really is a very emotive subject for all of us, and I am sure there will be plenty of replies here.  I think it is a very useful thread to see all sides of the for and against telling discussion, but please, I ask before it takes off that we keep it as 'nice' as possible so it can maybe be made sticky for others to read as the question naturally crops up so very often.  

Jayne x


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## Jayne

Hi Aisling 

Have just read your post properly, and it's so sad that you lost your mum at such a young age.  Can't imagine how hard that must be.  

I wonder though, if a child conceived via a donor would feel differently though, as the circumstances of their conception would be very different to what your circumstances were.  A donor conceived child would grow with the knowledge that their parents went through a lot to get them and that they were extra special because of this.  

Just another angle on your thoughts   

Jayne x


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## Kellyhop

Aisling, So sorry to hear about your Mum, that must have been very hard to deal with.

Jayne, Thanks for the posts it has been very helpful. 

DH and I keep thinking of scenarios that might happen if we were not to tell the child about being conceived with donor sperm. Like later in life (God forbid this doesn't happen) what if DH needs a kidney transplant and our Son or Daughter stepped forward for the tests, how would we explain the fact that they are not compatible. 

We worry about our close family who know about the donor letting it slip be accident. They could say I can't believe what a resemberlance the child is to DH and the child will ask questions as to why people keep saying that.

We have both come to the conclusion that we don't want to have any secrets in our family (if we are lucky to get one) and will therefore introduce it to the child at an early age, so that it has been something they have always been aware of.

Thanks so much for your replies

Kelly


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## Jayne

Hi Kelly 

I'm glad the posts were helpful, and I am sure you will get to hear lots of views for and against the argument   

I think the whole illness of a child/adult later in life, and whether the secret then comes out about things not matching up, etc. is something 99.9% of us think about.  I'm not entirely sure it's a great reason though, simply because not all genetic parents would be a match anyway, so you'd not need to explain for that reason.  

The problem I have is that if you have already told others, then there is a HUGE chance that the truth will come out one day.  Who knows what family feuds could ensue.  Also, the guilt for me would be too much to know that others around us knew, but the child didn't - especially as that child would one day grow to be an adult, who surely has the right to know how (s)he were conceived, just as you and I do.  

Oh, it's such a tough and emotive subject, and probably as you can tell, something I'm pretty passionate about - but only since Jack was born.  For me, that really did change my feelings dramatically.  I fell like so many on the side of not telling and was so committed to that decision, but within a year of Jack being with us the guilt was just too much for me and I could never cope with a lifetime of that.  I'd rather face possible consequences from being truthful than lie to my children.  Sorry, I know that will sound harsh to those that have made a different decision, but it shouldn't be a comment that would hurt you if you believe 100% in your decision to not tell.  

Jayne x


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## Ginger

Hi there

I just wanted to add that I can recommend the Donor Conception Network for help and support in this area. My DH and I are seeking an egg donor and thought long and hard about the subject of telling the child and anonymity. After meeting and talking to several wonderful members of DCN we are convinced that openness and honesty is the way forward for us, and that is why we are seeking a UK donor.

I hope this is helpful

Deirdre


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## ZenaE

Hello to you all (esp Deirdre who made the last post).
Been married to a wonderfull DH for nearly 9 years now, his tadpoles are fine (grinned like a Cheshire cat when we got his results), but my eggs have ran out.. hence we are looking for an egg donor.
On a waiting list at NHS clinic in B'ham, told that we should get treatment via egg share this summer, but not sure whether to wait for this or go abroad, still trying to weigh all the pros & cons up, which is why I have just applied to join the Donor Conception Network. Mainly to get to talk to other couples who have gone through or going through the same as us & to maybe seek other opinions etc on the subject of going for egg donation here in the UK or abroad.
Anyway, getting back to the subject, it has taken me a while to come to terms with the fact that when (not if) I have a baby & it is a little girl that when she grows up she will not look like me, my mum or my grandma or her cousin my niece (as there is a very strong family resemblance through the generations on the female side). I have now accepted the loss of this mainly because my niece looks so much like me and her grandma & great grandma. 
Hence I can go forward with egg donation.
Amongst our family & friends we have always been open and honest about our fertility problems, in our inability to conceive normally, then in the fact that we are to have ivf and now that we need an egg donor. Ever since the realisation that we need an egg donor has been the underlying fact that if we are fortuneate enough to succeed with the treatment and I get pregnant and we have a baby, that we will tell our child that we did have problems, and that a very special generously lady donated her eggs to us to help us have the family that we have always dreamed of. I do not see any reason why we would not tell our child the background to thier conception, espically when we have been so open about our fertility problems anyway.
I hope that this helps you and good luck with whatever path your treatment and life take.
Life is for living and have no regrets.
Take care.
Cathie


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## Clare the minx

Hi I've posted on donor sperm about this subject myself and it really is a very personal decision we all have to make.I don't think there is a right or wrong answer because at the end of the day as parents you will do what you think is in the best interests of your child and whatever decision you make will be the right one for you!


Me and my DP have decided not to tell our child and we looked long and hard into this before we decided!We have our own reasons for deciding not to tell and we are doing what we think is the best thing for our child.Only my parents know about the donor sperm so we haven't got that worry of them being told by someone else which I agree would be crushing for any child to be told by someone else.I can also see why people would want to tell the child as well and as long as you don't get pushed into a decision your not sure about whatever you decide will be right for you.Just get informed first before you make a decision as then it will truly be the right decision for you both and don't let anyone make you feel bad whatever you decided as that's your right to decide and your only doing what you believe is best.


I know one lady posted on another site that she decided not to tell any child she may be lucky to conceive and was told she shouldn't be allowed to be a parent,she'd be a bad parent etc and I totally disagree with that,not telling doesn't make you a bad parent as you are doing what you believe is best for your child.Whatever you decided will be the right choice for you and I'm wishing you loads of luck and love with your TX.

Clare xxx


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## LiziBee

HI!
I've been reading this thread with some interest. (Next TX we will have half the eggs with icsi with DH's sperm and half the eggs as DIVF, see sig for reasons).  
We have now had some counseling sessions on this and we have both decided to write letters to our future children to explain why we are going through this and how much we want them. 
The idea is if they are conceived by DIVF (we wont be mixing embryos so we will know which sperm were successful) they can read this and know how much we want them.
Anyway that was the idea, after we wrote them we read each others, it really showed me how DH was feeling and reassured me that he wants this as much as I do. I defy any child to read those letters and tell me that they are not wanted or loved. 
Writing the letters was excellent therapy and I totally recommend it, whether you intend to tell or not (and I totally support everyones right to make their own decision on that front).
Wishing you all every success.
Liz.x


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## ZoeP

Hi, I don't know if any of you are single women.  My query is a little bit different.  I'm not in a relationship and used donor sperm.  Now I'm 18wks pregnant and I'm thinking what do I put on a birth certificate.  Choices seem to be Donor or Unknown - one makes me sound like a desperado because I am not in a relationship to put a mans name down.  The second one makes me sound like I slept with someone without even bothering to find out his name    I hope my mail hasn't offended anyone.  Just didn't want a new thread that would stick out by a mile lol.

Take care everyone
Zoe x


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## sweetcaroline

Zoe, congratulations on your pregnancy.   The birth certificate is a tricky one, isn’t it?  Assuming you are planning to tell your child, I would put ‘donor’ as it sounds more ‘taking control of your life’ than ‘unknown’, which could be ‘slept around’.  I can see your dilemma though  - good luck!  

Shas, the law at the moment does not allow donors to contact their offspring.  I also think it’s a great shame that donors will lose their right to anonymity but the reasoning behind it has been the rights of the child.  For that reason it (hopefully) seems unlikely that donors will be knocking on doors 18 years later!

Lizi, I think that writing letters sounds like a great idea.  As for to tell/not to tell, I am firmly on the side of telling.  I can totally see the temptation of not telling - you could forget your child was conceived through DI and just get on with your life as a family.  But I agree with Jayne about not wanting to lie to my child.  My outlook has always been 'live your life well and you don’t have to have secrets' and it would eat me up to carry the burden of a secret that I was scared might come out one day.  Even if hadn’t confided in anyone so it couldn’t come out, keeping it from my child would make it seem like a shameful secret, and I refuse to feel ashamed about DI, we’re not doing anything wrong.  There is a distinction between what is private and what is a secret - I don’t feel that anyone outside the family has a right to know but I do believe my child would have that right.  My dilemma would be more when to tell than if - as I would be worried about them telling everyone if I told them too young, but if you left it too late it would be more of a bombshell.  That’s something I’ll have to work out if I’m lucky enough to have a baby.

As for the effects of  knowing on a child, maybe I’m being naïve but I think that as long children are secure in the knowledge that they are loved, they won’t be ‘messed up’.  It might be simplistic to make a comparison with adopted children, but most of them would want to know why they were ‘given up’, which is not something donor conceived children have to take on board, because they were never taken away from anyone else.   People have mentioned medical reasons to tell, and Jayne imagined her son seeing his medical records if he worked at the hospital where he was born.  The scenario I have imagined is what if I had a girl and she had problems when TTC and was asking me if I’d had problems… what if it was her DH and she was considering going for DI.. how bad would I feel if I hadn’t told her? 

Anyway, just thought I’d add to the discussion.  Wishing everyone luck with their tx, whatever their viewpoint.
Love Caroline xxx


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## Jayne

sweetcaroline said:


> My dilemma would be more when to tell than if - as I would be worried about them telling everyone if I told them too young, but if you left it too late it would be more of a bombshell. That's something I'll have to work out if I'm lucky enough to have a baby.


This was a huge concern for me too, but I bit the bullet about 4 or 5 months ago with Jack and started to tell him using the My Story book to help. Initially it was clear that if he did say anything it would've included the sentence of going to the hospital to make the baby, and I could've easily brushed this off in front of the mums outside the nursery by saying that he meant we had to go to the hopsital to have him  Now, he understands a bit more - we were talking about it yesterday actually - and I always finish the conversation by saying that it's something that is private to us (never use the word secret), and I list the people who know and that he can say something to about it, but that we don't tell strangers. He's aware of strangers and I just incorporate this into that we don't tell strangers everything. And so far, he's not said a word to anyone - even those that he has been told he can talk to about it  Honestly it was such a scarey thing to tell, but it's going so well.

I know the future may bring difficult moments of discussion - particularly when the implications of what he's being told kicks in, but if it goes as well as this initial stage of telling has, then we have little to worry about  What was so scarey is actually turning out to be really easy. I'm just 100% honest with him about everything he asks and he's going to grow up just knowing. It's never going to be any great shock to him.

Yesterday Jack looked at the My Story book and asked which of the men in there left their sperm at the hospital (I know, he's learning the biology of making babies a bit younger than most children, but hey, it's a fact of life and he's going to learn it one day anyway, we're just getting it started early  I'll never get the question, where do babies come from mummy? will I  ). I explained that it wasn't any of those 3 men in the book, but that there were loads and loads of very kind men who do this, but we'll never know who it was, and that's okay because it doesn't matter as he has his daddy, etc. etc. That was the first time I'd really said something along the lines of dh not being biologically connected to him. Of course he didn't understand that, and I didn't press the point, but one day he'll get what I'm saying, and you know, the more I say the tough stuff to him now, that he doesn't really understand, the easier it's going to be for me to say it to him when he really does understand. It's a bit like practicing  I used to practice a bit when he was a baby by telling him everything, and he didn't understand anything at all, but it helped me put it into the right words.

Telling isn't easy, but it's not as hard as I imagined either. And once you start, you just get into the swing of it 

Love

Jayne x


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## sweetcaroline

Thanks so much, Jayne, it's great to hear from someone who is living this rather than hypothesizing about it!   I agree totally with your advice to use the word private rather than secret:  I have always impressed upon my DD that even if someone tells her something is a secret, that doesn't include me as she can tell me everything (well you hear horror stories of abusers getting away with it because it's 'our secret'), and that honesty is so important.  I told DD about how babies are made when she was 9 and I felt I'd timed it beautifully as she was really interested but not 'grossed out' about it - it was probably harder for me to tackle the subject earlier as we had a tough time when my then DP moved in and she seemed traumatized when she walked in on us kissing in the kitchen, so I didn't want to bring the topic of sex into the equation!  

She did get over it though!  On our wedding day she urged us to try for a baby that night;  I've told her that it doesn't always happen easily and that I can't promise she'll have a brother or sister, but that we are hoping it will happen.  So that made me think that a child would have to be aware of what conception was all about before you could introduce the donor issue.  But what you say makes sense, and the fact Jack hasn't mentioned it to the people who know, suggests that it's not a big deal for him.  It goes back to being able to take things in your stride when you are secure and loved - my DD doesn't have an ideal family, with her father in the UK who she only sees once a month, but she deals with it and knows she's lucky in every other way.  Some kids have awful lives - you only have to think about them to put our worries into perspective, I am confident that if you handle it the best you can, it will all turn out ok.

love Caroline xxx


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## Jayne

Don't get me wrong now    Jack doesn't know about sex!    He just knows that a sperm from a daddy and an egg from a mummy make a baby.  The book tells him that the nurse put sperm inside mummy, and I've had to tell him that he was made a special way as not all babies are made like that, but we've not discussed the other way in depth as yet      Think I will save the details for a few more years yet    

I think having Ben helped a bit as he saw my tummy grow and me go to the hospital, etc. and we talked a bit about it all then, so I just say, remember when Ben was growing in my tummy, etc.  

Love 

Jayne x


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## Jayne

Hi Shas 

Glad I could be of support   

I hear what you're saying, but I'm afraid that regardless of any argument I still feel that a child has the right to know how they were conceived and for their parents to be honest with them.  That's what's most important to me, not the difficulties that it would cause for me and my dh if a donor turned up, etc.  I really can't ever see the law changing that way though, but there is always a chance of course.  I also can't see donors en mass trying to find their offspring.  

I recognise that in my situation I never had to face these questions as my boys were conceived under the old law.  However, I am 100% sure that if I were to be ttc now, I would still tell.  

Love 

Jayne x


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## ZoeP

Hi Caroline, thanks for your reply on this subject.  Its nice to have someone else's view.

Goodluck with your tx


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## LiziBee

Jayne its so great to read your stories, they give me real hope for my own future.

Shaz - I think it would be pretty impossible for a donor to ever trace a child. My feeling is that although those making the law rarely have first-hand experience of fertility issues even they would be able to see the problems this would cause, so in the first case I think its highly improbable that such a law would ever be passed. 
Secondly even if **** one day handed over their records I think all they would get is your name, not the baby's and not it's date of birth. I accept that good detective work could track this down but as each donor is likely to have progenated (produced??) 10 children possibly more, think of the cost!! 
In fact I think the way it works now  is that they don't even give the child that information, simply a donor number (so they can check that if they are having a relationship with another 'donor child' that they are not related) and the 'personal statement and descriptors' (please correct me if I'm wrong) if the child then wants to know more **** have to ask the donor (if they can find them) for their permission.
Finally I don't think that non-disclosure (i.e. not telling your child that they were the result of donor sperm or egg) would change or protect either you or your child from any of that.
(Sorry for some of the scientific jargon in that, I was trying to keep it male/female/sperm/egg neutral. I was also going for a debate and not an argument, I really don't want to upset anyone and accept that there are probably other sides to the case I have tried to put forward, I just can't think of them.)
I hope this helps,
Lizi


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## sweetcaroline

Zoe, I was actually a bit worried later that I'd phrased it really badly, putting that 'unknown' could be 'slept around'.. obviously I meant it could be _construed_ that way if you didn't know the situation. I have a colleague with a very on/off relationship who has been having DIUI and also sleeping with this guy. She got pg and unfortunately miscarried, but she put a lot of pressure on the guy when he didn't seem to care about the m/c (I think he was relieved) and it all seemed so dishonest and messed up. I would have respected her far more if she had just gone for the DIUI.. she continually moans about being badly treated yet she is lying and 'trapping' him. Lots of women would go for a devious way of having a baby, whereas you are taking control in a positive way and shouldn't be ashamed to put 'donor'! 
Caroline xxx


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## ZoeP

Hi Caroline,

No don't worry about that.  You didn't phrase it at all badly.  That was what I was implying myself.  It makes sense to put donor on the birth certificate, but one of my other dilemmas is that my ex employer who deals with Child Benefit is going to see a copy of my child's birth certificate.  I know I shouldn't care what people think, but I just know that my ex colleagues will have a field day with whatever I put on there.
Awwww thank you, I had the chance of a devious way - by staying with my ex when things were very badly wrong in our relationship but I also weighed up the pros and cons of being on my own and bringing up my baby or having him around or visitation and thought my child wouldn't deserve him as a dad lol.  I also didn't want to feel the need to rush into another relationship just to have a baby, but felt time was running out for me.  I thought I had dealt with the issue of the birth certificate before but in all honesty, I really didn't think I would be this lucky.
Sorry that I just droned on.  Your reply was really nice though....and I didn't see anything in your reply in anyway to take offence to.
Take care
Love Zoe x


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## sweetcaroline

Zoe - just a thought, is 'withheld' or 'identity not disclosed' an option?  That looks like 'I know who it is but choose to keep him out of it'?
Caroline xxx


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## Marielou

I have really enjoyed reading this thread, and all the different opinions and perspectives given.

For us, we have yet to concieve, and have yet to fully make a decision. At the moment, we're leaning towards not telling, but I do suspect, Like Jayne, I may well change my mind once a child is a reality. I amy be wrong, just lately I have been changing my mind, thats all. But, for the moment, we're not saying anything. 



> I know one lady posted on another site that she decided not to tell any child she may be lucky to conceive and was told she shouldn't be allowed to be a parent,she'd be a bad parent etc and I totally disagree with that,not telling doesn't make you a bad parent as you are doing what you believe is best for your child.


This actually happened to me, on the Chat room. It was a while ago, but upset me so much, I rarely talk about the tell/not to tell subject. I just don't like arguing, and I respect everyone's choice. 
Basically, this woman was telling me I was lucky my husband would use DS, as hers wouldnt. She then seemed to get angry with me, and asked if we planned to tell - I said no, but we're still thinking about it, and she actually turned against me, and told me I would be a bad mother, I don't know how to raise children, my children would be awful people ..... etc etc.  I just told her I wasnt prepared to discuss it, and that this was a supportive site. No way am I getting into arguments with people like that. I do think she had personnal issues to deal with herself, and was taking it out on me. Still isnt fair, as I have enough to cope with myseof, never mind taking the brunt for other people!

ZoeP - A fellow snowflake!  Forgive me for being ignorant, but I didnt realise you had used a donor (how long did we talk for?!   ) and I agree with Caroline - especially as you have those fears about your ex finding your child benefit forms. Good luck with the rest of your pregnancy, and feel free to join us on the 'anyone else using donor sperm thread' - we could do with some pregnant women on there, you'd be most welcome!

Marie xx


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## Clare the minx

Marie-lou,

I agree that it's not fair for anyone to tell you what you should or shouldn't do as couple's dealing with fertility problems we go through so much stress on a day to day basis with just having tx that to have someone critise you for your choice is so wrong.

Whatever choice any of us make we make it for what we feel is the right decision and no-one should try to force us to make a decision we're not sure about.There will always be people who think that you should tell the same as there will always be people who think you shouldn't but as long as you make your decision based on good information and what you feel in your heart is right for you as a family then that is truly the right decision for you.

We all go through enough with our on-going treatment that we don't need added pressure from others about what we should do.You need to make that decision yourself or as a couple as it's you who will have to live with the decision that you make ultimately.

At the end of the day everyone on this website are here to give and get support from each other and I'm grateful that so far I've never been critised or be-littled for my own opinion.For that I want to thank each and everyone of you as at times you have been my sanity saver and my inspiration.

Thanks girls,

Love Clare xxx


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## ZoeP

well here goes again, just sent a reply and there was a server error and it was lost    I think I will copy this one just incase it happens again.

Hi Caroline, thanks for getting back to me again.  That is a really good idea.  I will have to look into that and see if I can put one of those down.  They both sound better to me.
Good luck with your testing - I bet it seems like an age away still.

Hi Marielou,  I hope you are ok, I can only imagine the disappointment you had to go through again.  I had one attempt at DIUI which was negative before I done the DICSI and that seemed like the end of the world.  It was very cruel that you got a positive first.  Hopefully this month will be the one for you...you truly deserve it.  See I try to keep up to date with all the snowies even though the post I put on there the other day was a rarity I read it often.  I
Its not that you were ignorant or anything when you said you didn't know about me using donor sperm...I think I might have only mentioned it once when I was doing the tx.  It was just something that I didn't talk about that much.  Thanks, I've been really lucky so far with my pregnancy and hopefully it will continue to go that way, still I'm waiting with baited breath for something to go wrong...I suppose that is just natural when you take into consideration that it is highly emotional, costly and all consumming for a pregnancy to happen for us in the first place.  I will poke my head in on that thread and leave a message...server permitting.
Good luck with your tx, I really hope this is the one.

Hi Shas, thank you...its nice to know that people on FF are very supportive.

Take care all 
Love Zoe x


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## sooze

HI ladies

This is a fantastic thread. As I have been caught in the whole 'should we tell' dilema, so much so that it has made me think twice about doner eggs. So, its really useful to read peoples thoughts.

When the new law was introduced I was devasted. I had these images of our child abandoning me and tracing his/her biological mother, then I thought, well, I would want to know genitcally where I came from, but when does it stop?

By going abroad, this would solve the problem, but then would the child be angry that you denied them this choice?

I am truly torn about the whole thing. I would want to tell, my husband doesn't think its a good idea as certain members of our family/social circle are not that liberal and he just wants to protect them, he doesn't want them to suffer.

So for all these reasons I still don't know if I can go through with it. If I don't I know that I am denying us of a chance of a family (although my husband is happy to stay as we are).

My advice (which I really should listen to myself is) is that everyone is different and we have to find the answer within ourselves. The one friend I have told has said to me that I will find the solutions to tell/not tell once the baby is born. In one way I want to forget that they are doner. Is this wrong?

Take care all

Sooze
x


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## LiziBee

Ahhh Sooze! The eternal question, "is this wrong"? Equally we could ask "is this right"?

The truth is you have to decide that for yourself. There are no shortcuts, sorry.

I think that if I don't tell and our child finds out later in life there is every chance that they will hold our decision not to tell against us. Would the pain of this be lessend by the knowledge that I 'protected them' from problems when they were younger by not telling them the truth?

In addition children who find out latter in life are more likely to want to trace their donors as they often feel this information has pulled the rug out from under them and it is the only way to find out "who they _really_ are". Where as children who have always known are far more likely not to want to trace than actually go to the effort of tracking their donor down. Possibly because they have been able to establish their own identity with this back drop of information.

I plan to tell, and this is wholly supported by our clinic where we have been told that if we were to be successful the PCT will provide free counseling for us and our child until they are 25 and I truly believe they mean that. But you will have to make your own mind up, and make the decision that not only you but your child and the whole of your extended family will have to live with, forever. Not easy is it?

Lots of love
Lizi

PS As the recipient of a donor the clinic MUST provide you with counseling free of charge and you can insist on it before you have your treatment (which you can always pull out of if you feel you can't do it).


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## longbaygirl

A difficult one, but to be honest I had decided before tx that we would tell, but when the child became an adult. No right or wrong answer here, our preference was for allowing that person to choose who they want to share that information with, and when, rather than us making that choice for them at birth. 

I see it a bit like a very early adoption really, some people want the world to know and it's one of the first things they tell you about themselves, other people don't feel it is such a central facet of their personality and will only ever tell those they feel closest to. Completely down to individual choice, but as adults that is a choice they are able to make.

I'm happy with any seeking out of 'biological' parents, I think it is a completely normal response, and won't lessen any relationship we have at all. I will always be mum, and I will still be there to pick up the pieces when they find out that the 'biological' parent is not a hugely-talented/beautiful multi-millionaire living in a mansion, just an ordinary person. 

And I will still be there when they discover that their interest in the arts (or whatever) has not been genetically determined (because biological parent is not the least bit interested in this) but down to mum and dad dragging them round galleries at every available opportunity! That nurture is every bit as strong as nature...............

The only concern I have is that my twins will find it very, very difficult to do so because DE is anonymous in Kiev, and the inability to trace might cause some sadness or trigger a whole unrealistic fantasy in their mind.

As I said, no right or wrong answer, I will always be mum and they will always be adored.

Joy


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## mandao

hello ladies, I've just jumped onto this thread and been engrossed - possibly because I will be on both sides of the fence. 
My son, now nearly 2yrs old was conceived after 8 attempts of DIUI, following my DH failed vasectomy reversal. We are just about to start DIVF in which I am egg sharing. Having been so blessed I wanted to be able to help someone else. The topic of wether or not to tell is something we discuss intermittently. 

Personally I strongly feel we should tell our son for various reasons - it is his heritage, it is a fact, possible future genetic problems, not lying to our son, not having the "secret" exposed accidentally or maliciously in the future by somebody else (a few others do know our situation)... to name but a few. However my DH was reluctant to do so saying that he is his father. As DH was generous enough to partake in attempting the reversal and subsequently fully supporting me in our attempts at DIUI I have not wanted to push the situation but I am glad to say there is more movement towards telling and I think this is what ultimately will happen.

Also for me, I was raised by my mum and dad (actuallly my step-father) and had a fantastic relationship, being a real "daddy's girl", similarly my step-son lives with us and he calls me mum, we have a very close, loving relationship too. So I have never been put off by the fact of a lack of genetic bond. 

From the other side of the coin, I have just completed my green form detailing all about me for the recipients. In my goodwill message I have stated that I firmly believe, regardless of their origin or how they were told, the child has had the best start in life simply because they were wanted so much by their parents. Although fertility treatment is on the up constantly, how many kids can really, really say that! Also the thought of being sought out later on in life to answer any questions does not really bother me - do any other donors feel that way?

Best wishes to all and good luck xx


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## Jayne

Just wanted to add another comment to this thread.  

I was just wondering in truth how many children born with the right to trace their donor will in fact want to do this.  I agree with Lizi that it's something that a child is more likely to do if they are told/find out by accident later in life as all that they knew and all the security they thought they had would be ripped away in one hit - that must be soul destroying.  Particularly as when questions naturally arise about sex and how a baby is made, etc. if they think they were conceived the conventional way, then this is another lie.  But surely if they've always known the truth from a mummy and daddy who've been open and honest with them, and replied to questions with honest answers, then this feeling to trace a donor would be lessened.  After all, this isn't like adoption where a baby was born and then given up to be adopted by 2 people who have no genetic link.  This is a donation of genetic material that has the potential to create a baby.  If I donate my eggs, I'm not giving up a baby, I'm giving up some genetic material.  Why would anyone want to find me?  Maybe to see if they look like me, have inherited anything of me, etc. but I don't know, I think the reason a lot of adopted babies want to trace biological parents is because they want answers to questions about their birth, their family background, do they have brothers or sisters, etc. etc.  A donor baby will know pretty much most of this, and I can't see the questions and desire to trace biology being as intense.  Of course there will always be people who do want to trace, but that's normal as everyone's different.  

It scares me that so many people in this world who have conceived babies via a donor, put the protection of themselves from possible ridicule - because the sad fact is donor still carries that stigma with it (particularly using donor sperm) and men will be ridiculed by friends for being a 'jaffa' or whatever and women ridiculed for using a turkey baster, etc. as they don't know the facts of an IUI cycle - before being honest with their flesh and blood, and their precious baby.  I just can't get my head around that.  Sorry.  For us that fear of ridicule is always there, but we just told the people we knew we could trust not to be that way and kept it private from the rest of the social circle of friends and extended family.  This way, we have avoided ridicule, but our boys will know the truth.  If in the future they decide to tell the world, then so be it.  If people read my story on the internet, then so be it (at least then they'll have read how I feel first, and hopefully the facts rather than their own preconceived ideas.  In fact I don't care if anyone finds out this way as this isn't a secret, it's just not something we've told the world face to face!).  

I'd rather deal with ridicule if it comes with honesty to my children.  

I have considered what happens if people find out and my boys suffer from taunting, but so far that hasn't happened, and if it does, I will protect them as best I can and hopefully instill adequate confidence in them for themselves so it doesn't get to them.  Who knows.  I guess that's a downside to honesty, but to me it's a small downside in the whole scheme of things.  Children will always find something to pick on with each other, so if it's not this (and it may well not be this), it'll probably be something else.  That's how kids are.  

Jayne x


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## longbaygirl

I expect that the vast majority of all DE children will want to try and find their donor parent, regardless of when they found out. I think this is an absolutely natural and normal response - we all want to know where we came from, and I have no problem with this. 

I don't think when you tell someone about how they were conceived will make the least bit of difference to this - telling someone at 20 days, months, or years won't lesson the need and desire to find out what sort of person donated the egg/and or sperm that created them, if they look like them, sound like them, have the same interests and outlook on things as them, and a hundred other questions - it is just natural human curiosity, in fact, it is probably more odd for someone not to want to try and seek out their biological determinants. 

I'm sorry for those people that wanted to tell everyone but could not because of the fear of ridicule, of them and the child, that must be hard. Although, in this day and age I wonder - does that really happen? There are so many reconstituted families around now with half-children, step-children, children who have been adopted or fostered, children with multiple heritage or mixed-ethnicity,  - in fact, almost all the families with children that I can think of fall into one or more of these categories. 

As I said, I will tell my twins when they are adults, and give them the choice to decide who/when and how they want to share that information with others.

Joy


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## Jayne

Joy, I think this is one we may have to agree to disagree on    I certainly can't imagine my dh having told his mates down the pub about having no sperm and them have just saying, oh dear, sorry to hear that, and never taking the mick out of him after a few beers or whatever.  I also can't imagine raising my children to adult only to tell them that acutally their daddy isn't their biological father.  

As I say, one to agree to disagree on 

Jayne x


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## Clare the minx

As I've said before I really do feel it's upto the couple involved to make the right decision for them as there never will be a definite right or wrong answer,you just do what you feel is best for your family at the end of the day.But I do feel you have to make the decision as a couple as you went into the treatment together and you should come out of it together,each person's point of view should be taken on board and understood.

At the end of the day whatever you decide will be right for you and I will support anyone's decision no matter what it is.

Lots of love Clare


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## Jayne

Think this is such an emotive subject, and definitely one which understandably crops up on a pretty regular basis.  I think this thread has been useful in giving different opinions with arguments for and against all sides of the discussion.  Think we can all safely agree that there is no right or wrong answer, only what is right for an individual family.  

Anyway, I don't want this thread to disappear down the board, as I feel it will be helpful to not only us, but others who join the board in time to come, so am going to make it sticky now.  

Thanks for the productive discussion girls.  It's nice to be able to discuss such an emotive topic without falling into argument or bad feeling   I hope the thread continues that way in the future  

Jayne x


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## mandao

hello ladies,

Just a quick update - last night we told my teenage step-son about DS origins (he hadn't know about fertility treatment and use of donor sperm owing to his age and family situation/ problems at the time we were commencing treatment). 

It was very emotional for DH and I as we were both worried he would feel we had been decieving him for all this time. I am ecstatic to say he took it all in his stride, gave us a big hug afterwards, said he was glad he knew now and it didn't change his opinion of his brother. PHew... one down one to go (in a couple of years!) 

This came about because DH finally agreed he was comfortable with telling DS when he was old enough. This has been huge weight of my shoulders and funnily enough we are talking to each other about it more comfortably, thinkl it was definitely for the best letting DH reach this decision on his own than pushing him about it early doors.


Best wishes as always, mandao xx


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## sweetcaroline

Well done mandao, it's wonderful to hear how well your step-son took the news, he sounds like a really lovely boy and you obviously have a great relationship.  

I think that having an important secret is hugely stressful so you must feel great that you got it out and it went better than you dared hope.    

Caroline xx


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## Jayne

Hi Mandao

Really pleased to hear all went well with telling your step son about your youngest being donor conceived    Also, it's great to hear that your dh has come around to the idea of telling your son in the future also.  It just goes to show that the decision doesn't have to be set in stone.  Our initial decision was to not tell, and throughout ttc and pregnancy we were sure of this decision. We changed our mind by the time Jack was 1.  There's a very convenient window of time between having a baby and the earliest age - I'd say around 4 - of when they can understand basic information, and of course if you choose to tell later, then there's an even larger window.  This window of time is great for making final decisions.  Nothing needs to be set in stone, but it's heartening to hear that you and your dh were coming from different angles on this initially, but still had such a positive outcome.  Your dh is like me, in that I wasn't going to tell, but changed my mind.  My dh on the other hand was more similar to you and didn't really mind either way.  

Glad it all went well   

Jayne x


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## LiziBee

Did anyone read the Guardian on Tuesday?
I'll try and find the link to the article and pop back later.
Lizi


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## blueeyes

hi there everyone,
I've been off line for weeks . I've missed you all
This issue is very emotive but it is important that people make a decision that both partners are comfortable with. I think it is impossible to predict how a child will react but you have to feel secure in your hearts that you did the best thing whatever that was!!!
i thought i would just share `a couple of stories
a colleague at work has a niece and nephew` conceived with donor sperm. Both were told of this- one has never been interested in his origins the other has spent the last year or so working with LIBERTY to get the anonimity law changed. She would like it to be allowed retrospectively so she could trace her genetic heritage but obviously this has not been made law.
My husbands parents were both children of divorced families. MIL had a brother who grew up thinking that his step mother was his mother he discovered that she was not his birth mother aged 60. It has torn his life apart. But he has found the most hurtful thing was that many family friend knew this and never told him. His sense of betrayal is huge.
My point is that we are all human beings we make errors of judgement and we react to situations in many different ways.I think you go with your heart on this issue and if you keep it private you have the right to change your mind.
love as always
xxx


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## AnneD

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to say that I'm finding this thread really useful.  My DH has finally had a PESA and no sperm were found in the initial test.  We don't get our full results until July but being realistic it doesn't look good.  Back in December (before the PESA) we were told that DI and adoption were our options but then offered (dangerous)  rays of hope in the form of the PESA.  I was initially uncomfortable about DI but devastated at the thought of never giving birth and reading so many positive experiences of DI and different thoughts on the matter has really helped.

Thanks for helping me stay sane(ish!)   xxx


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## jayneanthea

Hello all

Just another opinion really, I grew up knowing I was adopted however found out who my parents where through a friend at school.  This was not the best way for a child to find out who their ' natural' parents are.  We have looked at the DIVF route and would urge anyone to tell the child the truth. It is far easier to grow up knowing something like this than to find out when you are older.  
Even if the only people you have told are your parents, best friend, anyone, you really don't know if it will slip out at some stage.  It is too important to know your biological history - it doesn't mean you will be rejected but probably respected as the child gets older.  The last thing you need is a child who has their world turned upside down by a slip or in an argument etc.  

I have the closest relationship of all to the two people who brought me up not my biological parents at all.  It is a tough one as after all the trauma of going through all the treatment etc we all want the children to be ours probably more desperately than if conceived 'by accident' etc.  

Anyway, just another opinion for the pot!

Jayne Anthea
X


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## Old Timer

Am new to this site but not to IVF    Have found this thread really interesting to read and can understand all the points of views expressed.  We initially had MF and after 6x ICSI and 2x mc we are now having to look at DE.  DH was so against DS until recently but it seems I am running out of eggs even though we may be trying again while waiting on the DE lists.  He is however fine about DE.  We are both willing to adopt but after having lost the last baby at 12 weeks I would so love to be pregnant again so am willing to try DE first.

A friend offered to donate to me, she would only donate direct as a known donor as she wanted to know where her eggs were going and to have a relationship with any resulting child.  Initially we were OK about this but then she decided she would want to tell her Mum & Dad and her 2 children.  We felt all control over telling a child would be taken from us so turned her offer down.  As it stands we are in two minds, can see both sides, and to be honest the thought of us actually be lucky enough to have a child is way above our heads.  What we have decided though is that we will tell no-one if we go down DE route as we feel it would be unfair on a child to find out knowing that so many other people knew before him/her.

Thanks for such a great thread, its good to know others have the same worries.
xx


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## Seven

Dear All,

I hope you dont mind me gatecrashing your message but I was wondering if some of you ladies who have actually had donor eggs or sperm could share your thoughts with me.  We are looking to donate eggs when we have IVF treatment and I though I had my head around it until we saw the counsellor a couple of days ago.

DH and I have talked about it loads and we very much view it as giving someone a building block to help them start their own family and although I will have helped, any resulting child is not actually anything to do with me, its mother is the woman who grew it, gave birth to it.

The counsellor asked how would we feel if it turned up at 18 and wanted to know its half brothers or sisters, its grandparents etc and I really dont view it like that and I know having discussed it with my mum she doesnt either.  I hadnt even thought about having to tell any child I might have that I donated eggs.  I just dont view it as a part sibling at all.

I do hope I havent offended anyone, it most certainly isnt my intention,  but I would really value your comments,  would thinking that the donor of the eggs or sperm you received wasnt interest in knowing that child and didnt think they would ever want a relationship with that child/ adult be of concern or positive. 

Good luck to you all.


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## sweetcaroline

Hi Stringkat,

I'm newly pg after having DIUI and, to answer your question, I wouldn't feel remotely negative about the donor not being interested or wanting a relationship with our child.  Quite the opposite:  the fact that someone could be a donor with there being nothing 'in it' for them, but purely to help someone else without even being able to be thanked, makes me feel nothing but good feelings about the donor.  Our donor will be untraceable but I will be able to refer to him as a very kind man who wanted to help couples who couldn't have children - he has donated genetic material, not given up his offspring.  I think it's very healthy that you are thinking of your eggs as 'building blocks';  donating eggs isn't an option for me due to my age but in your position I would think the same way, but more because if I started thinking 'My child is out there somewhere' it would make me worry about their welfare and that wouldn't be healthy at all!  Well done, you're doing a fantastic thing, very best of luck for your IVF   xx 

Old Timer, it sounds like your friend is the opposite of Stringkat!  Obviously I don't know your friend so don't want to judge, but from what you say it sounds like there is an element of 'I'm prepared to go through this for you but only if everyone can know how generous I was'.  We initially approached DH's brother to be our donor but we decided quite quickly that this would cause complications;  DH didn't want someone else to have a claim on our child.  At least your friend has been up-front about the claim she would wish to have on your child, so you know the score before you start tx.  It must be very difficult to have to turn down an offer like that but there seem to be a lot of strings attached, it's a shame.  Best of luck to you   xx

love Caroline xxx


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## Old Timer

Hi Stringkat
I also think your way of thinking is the best way.  Even though to those needing donor eggs you are doing a wonderfully kind thing I've always looked on an egg as a cell that could help to make a baby.  Even though I think it is right to tell any resulting child about DE or DS it is in no way the same as adoption and I don't think any child would look on the donor as its mother or father.

Caroline, yes you are right.  It was actually her husband that started off the "I would tell...." before that she was fine with donating anonymously to get us up the list.
Love
OT x


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## NellieP

Dear All

I have donated once before, before the new law came in and am about to donate again.  To be perfectly honest about it the only reason I am donating is financial (I know there is also the good side of being able to help another person) but would anyone really donate if they were a multi-millionaire and money was not an issue.

Donating does not really bother me in the respect of wondering if there is a child out there with my genes, at the end of the day as far as I am concerned that child is nothing to do with me, it's not mine and DP's baby and that's what I'm in this for.

If it is a choice between donating or not being able to have an IVF attempt and a child of our own, I shall donate everytime.

I can not personally see why, if you have received a donated egg, you would want to tell the child.  If you have carried it for 9 months, given birth to it, it's also 50% your partners child, in my eyes it yours!!  

My view is, if in 18 years time I get a knock on the door I will deal with it then (I'm sure some people may think this is a "sticking your head in the sand" attitude) but why worry about something that may never happen, and if at that point I do have children of my own I can explain to them then why I donated in the first place........to have them, a child of our own!!

I hope I haven't offended anyone with my views......but this is how I honestly feel


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## Oonagh

Just wanted to add to this discussion by saying what we would do. If I ever ever ever   manage to create a child using donor sperm we will be honest from the start with the child and I agree with Jayne totally.  I don't know what it feels like to have a child but I feel strongly about it now so no doubt, I will feel even stronger about if it happened!  At first, our initial reaction was to feel the child need never know but I just can't live my life like that and for us it would be the right thing to do.

 to you and you all with the hard decisions we have to make.

love Oonagh x


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## Jayne

I agree, that if you donate sperm or egg, you are providing genetic material that has the potential to create a baby.  You are not giving up a baby.  This is how I've always differentiated donor conception against adoption.  

I'm hoping to be able to do at least one altruistic donor egg cycle before my 35th birthday.  This was a decision I made whilst pg with Ben, and although I had hoped to do it before now, for various reasons I have needed a bit more time - one of these reasons (but not the sole reason) has been the change in the law.  I do feel that if you donate you should do so with some thought of what you are doing, and with some empathy to any resulting child, although I agree, the responsibility of considering the welfare of any child conceived via your donation is down to the parents of that child.  

I would never know if any eggs I donate result in a baby, and I certainly wouldn't feel any connection to that child, because, as I say, I donated genetic material with the potential for life, not life itself.  If however, my donation did result in a child who wished to meet me one day, then I imagine that because we have a family that is already open and honest about donation, it wouldn't be such a big deal.  I will definitely tell my children that I have donated eggs.  

I think the final bit I'm trying to get my head around before donating, is that if a child did turn up one day, how would his/her parents feel.  I can't just say, ah well, that's not my problem, as that's just not me.  As a mother of donor conceived children, I would feel uncomfortable with them tracing their donor - they are of course unable to do so because they were conceived before the change in the law.  So, this is something I've never really had to consider before and I'm still very much going through the thought process of it all. 

Maybe I think too much, but I can't help it.  It's how I am.  

Jayne x


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## Old Timer

Hi Jayne
Just wanted to ask a quick question in relation to the new law.  If the law had been in place when you were faced with deciding whether to use DS or not would you have still gone ahead?  Only asking as you have said you'd feel uncomfortable with your boys tracing the donor.

I do think this law has had a great impact on both donors and recipients and it has been made by people who really no nothing about the situation.  In an ideal world none of us world need IVF let alone DS or DE but as we all know the world isn't ideal and this law just adds to the stress and difficulty of making these decisions.

OT x


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## CLARETTC

As someone about to egg-share as a donor i think personally the law is there for any future children. I guess it must be difficult if you are told you came from DE/DS and with no means of any further information about who the eggs/sperm came from. Personally i see my donated eggs as a means of helping someone else to achieve their dreams, although the resulting child will have half my genetic make-up they will be the recipients child as they grow and nuture that child and bring it up as it is theirs. 

The law is unfair in one way but i think its important for the child to know so they can make their own decision on whether to trace the donor or not. I suppose it is allowing them a choice and then they can choose to act on this or not, therefore i agree with the scrapping of anonimity. I suppose if i came from a donor egg i too would be curious, but who is to say you have to do anything with this information when you reach 18. It is far more likely you will act on it later in life according to my counsellor . I think it must be a difficult decision to make and i feel as though recipients do have a harder time coming to terms with it than us donors, just my personal view, anyway i wish everyone luck with their decisions and hope you all get BPS soon xxx


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## Jayne

Old Timer said:


> Hi Jayne
> Just wanted to ask a quick question in relation to the new law. If the law had been in place when you were faced with deciding whether to use DS or not would you have still gone ahead? Only asking as you have said you'd feel uncomfortable with your boys tracing the donor.
> 
> OT x


Really don't think I can answer this question. It's not something I had to consider at the time, and so wasn't part of either mine or my dh's thought process. Now I have my boys, as I say, I would feel uncomfortable with them being able to have identifying information of their donor. But I don't think I can say now what I would've done when ttc, as then I didn't have Jack and Ben and didn't understand fully what that would be like - if that makes sense.

In my current situation, I wouldn't use a donor now to ttc again - and one of the reasons for that is the change in the law. But of course, I can fully appreciate that my situation is now very different, and so the decision making and thought process is also different. We did bring forward ttc Ben by about a year or so in anticipation of the change in the law, as both dh and I said that if it changed before we conceived a sibling for Jack, we wouldn't continue to try.

It's all so complicated really. The change in the law has had a huge impact on so many aspects of donor conception - both relating to giving and receiving, and I can see the good and bad of it all. Overall though, I wish the law had just stayed as it were.

Jayne x


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## mandao

Hi ladies, as always - hope everyone is well.

Just wanted to jump on board with the current thoughts. DS is now nearly 2yrs old and conceived with donor sperm. Although I am happy to be able to tell him that some generous man out there donated some of his genes to enable DS to be conceived and loved, I personally am sorry that I won't be able to give him more information about his donor - should he ever ask. 

It is not something I would ever have forced on him, but having been brought up by my step-father, knowing the situation and being able to ask my mum on the very rare occasion something cropped up about my "biological" father, I am kind of sad that I won't be able to answer DS questions if he has any. 

Similarly, I am just about to start stimming and am egg sharing for DIVF and found completing my green donor information form quite difficult. I re-wrote it about a dozen times, adding things, changing things, removing things! Always trying to think that this could be any resulting child's only information about me - any natural curiosity may only be fleeting and not necessarily lead to a point where they would wish to meet. I wanted to try and give as much information to fill that passing fancy and not leave them feeling as they were missing something. Also I thought this was my opportunity to "speak to" the parents, afterall, it will be them who have the job of discussing all this, should they decide to. 

Also recently found out that the donor from DS has all gone! Another donor has been found and good match - on paper. I was very sad at time as I wanted full siblings (wished I had realised at time and would have paid to save some). Just fatalistic at moment...what will be will be. Also realise that our children will always be loved for who they are - not who they came from initially! Just thankful that generosity still exists and donors are around - but I strongly feel that there should be a huge recruitment/ advertisement drive for donors. I really don't think "joe public" realises how many desperate people are around and reliant on their generosity!

Best wishes to all,
Mandao xx


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## The Lady

mandao, couldn't agree more. People tend to get embarrassed and make jokes about DS, but I waited 2years for some and I didn't find it very funny  
People just assume that there are vast quantities of it stored up somewhere, unfortunately we know that's not the case.
I appreciate that the law was changed in the interest of the child, however parents are under no obligation to inform their children how they were conceived, and having to be a known donor is scary many potential donors off, possibly unneccessarily, if you know what I mean. The right of the child to know their own origins is protected somewhat, but now many of those children will never be born in the first place. Boo!


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## juno

Hi,
With DS I feel the DH will be the baby's father - he will bring him up and be there to love him and shape him. The sperm donor is only the genetic parent not the actual parent. 

Personally I really wanted a known egg donor for my (hopefully) child's sake so if it became important to them they could find out more. I am finding it very difficult that all the clinics in Europe do anonymous donors only. I feel it is not realistic for me to wait for a UK clinic to put me in a queue as I have only just moved back here and they prioritise people who have already been with them for IVF treatment and I am 46. 

However, many adopted children and sperm donor children who have now grown up say that the important thing for them was that they were or were not told the truth. I believe that my child will accept that this was how it had to be if they were to exist at all and that they are loved. I think this is the important thing and back to DS - the caring parent is the parent and the donor is only the provider of the genetic material.
best wishes,
Juno


----------



## loobs

Hi,

Just letting you know a bit about us. We have 2 beautiful girls conceived through DIUI, and we have another one on his or her way. They have all been conceived at the same clinic, using the same donor. We have always believed that the children need to know their story and how precious and wanted they were. We wanted it to be their information, and theirs to share as they chose to, so we didn't tell anyone about treatment. We decided that we should tell the children as they start to ask quetions about how babies are made. Our eldest is 3 now and has just found out about eggs and how twins are made. She hasn't yet worked out the role of the male, but we're going to take her for my next scan at the clinic as a prompt for discussion. We really do believe that it is in her interest to grow up with this information slowly digesting, ratehr than having some big shock in later life. She is very close to my parents, so we actually told them last weekend, in preparation for when the children may or may not blurt something out!

Apart from my parents, we're not telling anyone else. It will be up to the children who they tell and we'll support them to tell whoever they like. We don't want it to be a big secret, but we do want them to be comfortable with it, and respect that it is personal info. Both our girls have the most wonderful relationship with their dad I can never see them rejecting him, except perhaps in a silly teenage moment, but then kids say nasty things at times anyway, don't they! I have evry confidence that they will not look back at their childhood with any regrets about their relationship with their dad - he is about as great as they come. I hope this might be of some interest to you, and I will ;et you know how we get on as we start talking to our big girl. All the very best! Loobsl.


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## sweetcaroline

Loobs,

Congratulations on your family, it's wonderful to hear success stories.   I think you have approached the issue in exactly the right way; you have to have faith that your kids will be accepting of their origins.  As long as we are honest they shouldn't have reason to feel too distressed about it.. I have also wondered about a teenage 'You're not my real dad!' outburst but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, along with 'I hate you, you're ruining my life!' which we probably all said at some point (in my case for not being allowed to see Adam & the Ants at the Manchester Apollo when I was 13).  

Hope you're having a great pregnancy,
Caroline xx


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## wolla

Loobs

What a wonderful story, thank you for sharing it.

Wolla
x


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## loobs

WOLLA,

All the very best with you tx. I will be thinking about you. There are lots of things to think about with DIUI, but four years on and we have no regrets. The funny thing is our children look like their dad. People don't know about the DI and constantly remark on their similar features - it just shows that are chilren are far more than thier biological statistices - thier mannerisms make them them and ours, the way they hold their lip, the way they draw their eyes etc - it all come from the poeple who parent them not the donor. I am eternally grateful to the donor who has given us 2 beautiful girls and our precious cargo, but he is not thier father - their dad is, and as long as dads are confident about this then its a wonderful treatment. All the very best. Loobs


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## Jayne

Hi Loobs

Lovely posts   Congratulations on your lovely family and precious cargo    

Jayne x


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## LiziBee

Loobs - thanks for sharing, very reassuring!
lizi.x


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## loobs

Thank to you all. I have only recently discovered this site. I feel like a bit of an old timer now with DIUI and the issues it raises - I wish I had known about this site when I first embarked on our journey to have our first little poppet back in 2001. I was anxious about everything then, and never really believed that motherhood would reach me! It would have been good to enter into internet chat. Anyway, I have come into contact with all of you lovely and supportive women at a really good time, as we begin to tell our eldest her story. No doubt this site will offer me much support, guidance and wise words. Thanks to you all and lots of positive thoughts. Has anyone got any experience of using any of the Donor cnception network books written for children?? Loobs.


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## julesuk

Hello Loobs!!

Thanks for sharing your story with us, and a huge Congrats to you for number 3 on the way!!

I have recently brought  books from DCN they are 'My Story' which is suited for children from the age of 3. And 'Let me Explain' suitable for ages 7 and above.

'Let me Explain' is going out of circulation soon as they have stopped printing it, so if you want it I would order it soon, hence why I got my copy in well in advance (Katelyn is nearly 2!)

They are both really good books, and I'm sure they are going to be my saviour when the 'telling' time comes!

Hope to 'chat' to you again sometime.

Love Jules xxxxxxx


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## Jayne

Thanks for letting us know about the book Jules.  I will get my copy of that later today then.  I've found My Story to be really useful with Jack, so definitely want the next stage book.  

Love 

Jayne x


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## Jayne

it's already gone out of print and the DCN no longer have copies (just checked on the website). Serves me right for not checking the DCN site regularly doesn't it


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## HollyB

Hi there,

I just wanted to add another dimension to the discussion.

I have a DD from an IVF cycle not involving any donors. Since her birth I have had 3 failed cycles and believe that egg quality is an issue for me. Since my most recent failure i have been considering my options, one of which is donor eggs. However, this issue of whether the child should know or not is one that is bothering me. 

So in my situation, if I were lucky enough to have another child using donor eggs, I would have one child who is  genetically mine, and one who is not. Firstly, will that be an issue for me? and secondly what should I tell my children? I am struggling with this a little. If they were to know could it be an issue for the donor child as he/she might feel different. Would my DD use it against my other child at any stage? It almost seems easier if nobody knows - just DH and I. 

Holly


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## Jayne

Hi Holly 

I think the choices we have to make regarding telling are so difficult, and I often wish I just had a crystal ball to tell me what the future held and then I could make my informed decision.  Sadly I don't, none of us do, and all any of us can do is what we feel is best at the time, and what we feel will be right for our children and our family as a whole in the future.  For me, there is no situation that would stop me from being open and honest with my child about how they were conceived, and my dh and I will work through any issues this may bring in the future as/when they happen.  From what I hear from families with grown up donor conceived children, a lot of the fears we have now are unlikely to come to furition anyway    

I can understand though that not everyone will feel the way I do, and ultimately I don't think anyone can say you should do it this way, or the other - it has to be what's right for you once you've listened to people's advice and worked through the issues for yourself.  

Wishing you lots of luck, both for success in treatment and in your decision making process. 

Jayne x


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## mandao

Hi Holly,

I just wanted to add my opinion. My situation is slightly different in that I am currently 12wks pregnant with our 2nd child through donor sperm, but had to use a different donor from DS. This is also something we will have to face telling our children that in addition to being donor children (for want of a better phrase) they are in fact half-siblings. That said I also have teenage step-son living with us who is obviously no genetic link to DS and yet they had a fab relationship - for a teenager and a 2yr old!!!!!!! 

As mixed up as our family is we are very close, strong and fully supportive of each other. It's not all "hearts and roses" all the time but I know our relationships and the bonds we do share are what will see us through it all. My DS-S is shown the same love and patience my DS receives and I believe it is this equality which will smooth the path for us. 

It is only a couple of months ago that we told our teenager that DS was actually concieved with donor sperm (we hadn't previously discussed it because he was young when we 1st started tx and he had a lot of pressure placed on him by his "mother" that we didn't want to provide her with more ammuntion!). However, the deceit, no matter how well intentioned on mine and DH's behalf, was very hard for me to live with and the relief was amazing when we did tell DS-S and he was completely supportive and understanding.

We have never looked back since then and there has been no change in any of our relationships. I say all this because although no-one can ever tell you what to do - you know your family and your circumstances best, I never wanted to lie to my children or give them the opportunity to accuse me of doing so. 

I would also suggest you are in a stronger position because even though using donor eggs you will still be carrying your child and bringing them into our world. Have faith in your ability as loving parents to bring them up the right way, accepting of circumstance and appreciative of having such supportive parents.

Good luck with your decision,
Amanda xx


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## evelet

just a point about birth certificates - do you really have a choice of 'donor' or 'unknown' on the birth certificate? My dp and I recently registered the birth of our son (we are both women so the shall we tell him he we used donor sperm question pretty much answers itself) and the registrar simply left the 'father' space blank. I don't think 'unknown' is used anymore.


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## KittyR

Hi Evelet
I thought you could write the legal father's name on the borth certificate - although I understand in your situation that wouldn't be applicable, so sorry if I am missing the point.  It would be nice if they could have an alternative form (or a more accommodating form) that allowed both your names to go on there as presumably you both count as the legal parents?

K


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## evelet

as we are both women I am not classed as our baby's legal parent (as I am the non-biological mother). I have found out since my original post that the only choice with birth certs is either a named father or a blank space. there is no opportunity to put 'donor' or 'uknown'. 

It would be nice if there was an extra box to put me down as a second parent on our baby's birth cert but I am going to adopt him next year so I guess he will (eventually) have an adoption certificate with my name on it instead...


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## KittyR

that's nice that you can adopt....i don't have any close gay friends so am a bit out of touch but am always shocked at how archaic and discriminating these rules ands benefits seem to be. It's silly becauise you are no less the legal parent than my husband will be yet he will be able to put his name on the form....hopefully these sort of issues will be made fairer in time. 

Enjoy your little boy, he looks so sweet in his picture!
Kx


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## evelet

thanks! It is stupid really isn't it? It would be nice if I could be automatically recognised as Jude's other parent. Still, at least I CAN adopt him...

Good Luck and  

for your treatment


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## nhklh

I've only read the 1st couple of pages of this thread, but wanted to reply anyhow.

DP and I have a son via donor sperm, under "father" on his birth certificate it says "not stated".  My name is not on there, only DP's as she's the bio-mother.  Also I am ttc#2 (since Jan04), same donor.

We are firmly in the "telling" camp.  Being a same sex couple makes this choice quite a bit easier of course, as it's obvious the sperm had to have come from somewhere!  DS knows the truth (well, as much as he can understand right now), we see no reason for it to be otherwise.  We have a known donor, so there won't be any secrecy surrounding DS's donor's identity, he will always have the full information.

I am actually really looking forward to the day DS meets his donor.  Not sure when that'll be, donor isn't ready for that yet and at under-2 DS hasn't asked.  We do have photos of our donor, and donor has photos of DS, and we're in regular contact (email and of course ttc#2).

Back to reading - this is sure to be an interesting thread.


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## KittyR

Hi we will being doing our first DIUI hopefully before Christmas.  I think it is really interesting reading about the different perspectives of the different couples.  I think when there is a man/woman, the thought of the chilld having a relationship with the bio-father is much more threatening because there is this sense of him replacing the role of the legal father. But for lesbian couples it seems to be an added bonus to have the potential of a relationship with the donor - would you agree?  I imagine women feel the same about egg donors although these often seem to be personal friends etc. 

We are def in the telling camp and I have been from the start - although have absolutely no desire for any relationship with the donor although of course will try v hard not to show this to the child and will support him/her in whatever he/she wants to do in finding out any background etc.  I just have this fierce sense of protection for my husband. But the donor we have is from the US, we have an adult photo and quite a lot of personal information so I feel quite good about the sort of person I think he is. But that is more reassurance about him being a reasonable match, rather than thinking he will be a good person for us to know in the future. But that is v selfish I know.  I can't really imagine how you could bring up a child without telling - I would feel guilty for the rest of my life I think. I keep thinking of conversations like I used to have with my parents - remember the fascination you have with what you were like as a baby etc - and i can't imagine having to do lots of fabrication and then what if one parent said one thing and then the other one contradicted them slightly.....doesn't bear thinking about.  But i respect those of course who are planning not to.....it's a very personal decusion. 

kx


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## KittyR

PS - as a teacher I am also quite interested in how same-sex parents would tell school etc - I had a boy in my class last year (9 year-old, so becoming v aware of sexuality, relationships etc) whose mum is a lesbian (i think she conceived him in a relationship with a man though) but her partner lives as a man (at least she looks boyish, but is clearly a woman) and the boy thinks he is male - calls her dad and refers to her as him...I found it really difficult to understand and thought it was more confusing for him.  But what do you all think, is that a normal set-up do you think? I thought it would be better to be honest about her gender and their relationship..... unless she is preparing for a sex change??!!  I got very confused. 

But I read in the paper the other day that homosexuality will be included in the curriculum for primary school which I think is absolutely right - there was all this uproar about protecting children etc - but it was so shortsighted when there are a significant number of childre being raised by same-sex parents so that needs to be acknolwedged and valued. 

sorry went off the point a bit there!!  Would be interested in peoples views - i don't know any lesbians (how crass does that sound??!!!) but would be very interested to hear what you think. 

Kx


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## nhklh

I do agree that the donor may be viewed as somethingg of a "threat", but that's not necessarily restricted to hetero couples. From what I've seen, often the non-bio mum can feel threatened also.



KittyR said:


> PS - as a teacher I am also quite interested in how same-sex parents would tell school etc


We're just open about our family wherever we go. Liam has 2 mums and that's that. It's not been a problem so far. If/when he goes to school (considering home schooling, hence the "if") I can't see it being a big deal either. We'd just introduce ourselves as his parents to the teacher, and trust that he/she would come to us with any questions/problems etc. Our family is as it is, we don't view our family as particularly different to anyone else's (DP's disability makes us more diff than our genders IMO), and we don't expect to be treated any differently either.



KittyR said:


> I had a boy in my class last year.....whose mum is a lesbian ....but her partner lives as a man (at least she looks boyish, but is clearly a woman) and the boy thinks he is male - calls her dad and refers to her as him...I found it really difficult to understand and thought it was more confusing for him. But what do you all think, is that a normal set-up do you think? I thought it would be better to be honest about her gender and their relationship..... unless she is preparing for a sex change??!! I got very confused.


If it's normal for their family, then it's normal. The mum's partner could just be living as a man, in which case it's only natural that the boy refer to him as him/dad. No doubt the boy understands and isn't confused, he just accepts his dad (or stepdad I guess) as he is.

HTH


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## snagglepat

I wanted to respond a little to this, if nothing else to bring a little bit of trans awareness to the thread, as it seems to have cropped up. I know it's not exactly on topic. Over to you Jayne as to whether or not this should stay or not.



KittyR said:


> PS - as a teacher I am also quite interested in how same-sex parents would tell school etc - I had a boy in my class last year (9 year-old, so becoming v aware of sexuality, relationships etc) whose mum is a lesbian (i think she conceived him in a relationship with a man though) but her partner lives as a man (at least she looks boyish, but is clearly a woman) and the boy thinks he is male - calls her dad and refers to her as him...I found it really difficult to understand and thought it was more confusing for him. But what do you all think, is that a normal set-up do you think? I thought it would be better to be honest about her gender and their relationship..... unless she is preparing for a sex change??!! I got very confused.


It can be confusing at first! I was fortunate enough to grow up with a transsexual aunt so knew from an early age that physical gender and actual gender can be very different things, and now I'm very politically active in the LGBT community and know and have relationships with numerous trans/genderqueer people I have some quite strong feelings on the subject.

The physical gender of a person is irrelevant. I know a number of people who identify as one gender but who don't physically adhere to the standard ideas of how someone of that gender might be physically. Gender reassignment surgery is a huge undertaking, and has many risks, and many people choose not to go the whole way, or even part of the way with it. There is no rule that says someone must have or be intending to physically change their body in order to be identified is the gender of their choice.

If I were to meet someone new and introduce myself as a lesbian, I would expect them to believe me and take it on board as a part of me. I wouldn't expect them to need to see physical proof of me being in a relationship with a woman before they accepted my identity. Likewise with gender. If I were to introduce myself as a man, I'd expect to be treated as such without the content of my pants needing to be known as proof one way or the other. The person referred to in the quote above is clearly a man. He may not physically have the traditional male attributes, but he is choosing to live as a man, his family accept him and love him as such, and he no doubt has to deal with a huge amount of social ignorance and probably abuse in order to continue to be himself. The least any of the rest of us can do is respect his choice and refer to him as he would wish to be referred to (he/him). This would also mean that his partner may well not identify as a lesbian, given that she is in a relationship with a man, but you'd have to ask her to be sure. Identity and behaviour can be two very different things!

There are also people who live in between the gender roles, who are sometimes male, sometimes female, and sometimes neither or even both. We live in a society that embraces dichotomy, not fluidity. It wants us to assume a nice simple identity: either male or female; either gay or straight. The middle ground is often threatening within a structure that isn't set up to deal with it, or if not threatening at least difficult to understand. But the middle ground is also a beautiful place, where people are people regardless of their gender, their sexuality, or anything else.

As for your question about how the school would be told, my partner and I will be open with any school our child(ren) may attend, although like *nhklh* we are also considering home-schooling. We will be our child(ren)'s parents, regardless of which of us gives birth to them, and we'd expect to be treated as a family unit like any other, and to be consulted should any issues or questions arise. I'm already stockpiling children's books that include characters with same-sex parents for any future school library too. 

And we're also going to be completely open about how our child(ren) were conceived too, although as a same-sex couple it'd be difficult to do otherwise. We're using a known donor who will have very little contact, but will be available to meet the child(ren) in the future, should they so wish, and to conceive siblings, assuming we do eventually get and stay pregnant the first time!

Gina.


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## KittyR

Hi, thanks for replying, it was really interesting to read your comments.  I just sincerely hope any ignorance or short sightedness I might have shown in my previous posts didn't offend or irriate anyone. I was speaking honestly and respectfully. Obviously it is hard to ask these kinds of questions as they are so personal so it is good to get a perspective from people more authorised to speculate on the subject!  My motivation for understanding it all was mainly trying to support this pupil in the best way.
What you have said about gender identity is really interesting and certainly fits with the person I described. I think it would be a shame to do home schooling if it is because of worrying about how your child may or may not be treated at school by other children, but I get the impression you might want to do it anyway, for other reasons?  That is a great idea about collecting books about same sex parents, all that kind of thing helps to celebrate and respect difference. 

Thanks again and I really hope my questions/comments weren't out of order. 
kx


----------



## woo_woo

Hi,

i just wanted to say, what a fantastic discussion.  IMO Kitty you have raised some very real happenings and the fact that you have the child's best interests at heart is the motivation behind the questions.

Gina, i think you have made some valuable points, have you ever thought of becoming a teacher??  Could you poss pass the titles / authors of the books you've mentioned.  I was also thinking of writing a book or two myself.  I used to teach, but left due to comments made surrounding my being a lesbian, among other things.  

Kitty, how does this pupil interact with other kids, is there any advice you can give for same-sex couples to make the transition to school as smooth as possible for their children?

thanks again for the comments made

Woo x


----------



## snagglepat

Hi Kitty,

You honestly didn't say anything offensive or out of order, it was clear that you were coming from a position of wanting to be supportive of this pupil. Please don't worry about it. It can be hard to ask these questions, but the fact that you did was great, and it's facilitated some great discussion which might inform others too, which is even better. 

Part of the motivation behind the idea of home schooling for us is out of concerns about potential bullying and ignorance, but you're right, we have other reasons for wanting it too. We're aspiring towards setting up a housing co-op where we will live as part of a community of like-minded people (and their kids) living in a low-impact, self-sufficient and environmentally sound way. This may or may not come off though. We're not even pregnant yet, so we'll make decisions on that when we have to. 

*Woo woo*, I had to laugh when you asked if I'd considered teaching. Until recently I was teaching adults in community settings, and I have considered going into primary level teaching, but I'm now in the early days of my doula career so don't want to add anything else into the mix just yet. 

There are some great books out there that include kids with same-sex parents. Some of my favourites are 'Heather has two mommies' and 'The Duke who outlawed jelly beans and other stories'. You can get them both from Amazon. The currently available edition of 'Heather has two mommies' is the second one. The original apparently had more information about how heather was conceived, but it's no longer in print. I keep looking out for a first edition as the one I have is the second, but I haven't spotted one yet.

Most of the books available are American, and having some English ones out there would be fantastic. Please do pursue the idea of writing some queer-friendly children's books, we could all really do with some, and if you have the skill to do it then please do make the most of it. I'd be happy to support you in that if there's anything I could do. Proof reading perhaps, or illustration? I think it's a really great idea. 

Gina.


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## KittyR

Oh i am so pleased everything I said was ok!! Thank you for reassuring me, I am a worrier. 

Well the thing that I have found quite sad is that this little boy I teach doesn't, I don't think, really know about his mum's realationship or sexuality - he is a chatty type and we get on well but nothing has ever come up.  His mum is quite private and I just get the feeling she may not have talked to him about it but of course i could be comepletely wrong.  It is of course different because I am pretty sure he is not donor conceived but you never know....he has mentioned 'my real dad' before, as well as 'my dad' who is his mum's partner. It was so hard last year because I taught the class sex education, which was personally hard for me as of course it was all about how to make babies (ha bloody ha) but we do also touch on homosexuality and i just didn't know how much to mention as there were no clues from him as to what he knows/doesn't know. 

As a teacher I feel sad that parents might consider not putting their children in mainstream eucation because of bullying of any kind.  I'm not sure where you live but London primary schools are some of the most inclusive places you could be - bullying is taken very seriously and especially about something so so special and sensitive, I would come down like a ton of bricks on any child who showed any kind of discrimination against any child, for anything at all - we celebrate and respect difference - race, intelligence, emotional maturity, disability, socio-economic background, family set-up - at my school it is actually unusual for kids to live with a married mum and dad - I refer to "my husband" sometimes and ask them "why am I called Mrs xxx" and they don't know really what it means as they are mostly from single parent families with different names to their mums, some with foster parents etc etc. So we talk about all different kinds of families. I also think that children who are educated alongside other children from very very similar backgrounds then miss out on seeing the full range of what is out there - maybe limiting their understanding of the world.  But on the other hand it would be naive to deny any bullying may happen. The funny thing is that I have never ever heard a single word said about this boy and his mum's relationship, and they live locally - it's weird but sometimes kids just don't think about these things. I think secondary school would be tougher but kids can be amazingly indifferent about each other's differences, and sadly sometimes very cruel. But obviously schools do vary hugely, I think at any stage of your planning it would be well worth going to some local schools, explaining your background and asking them what provision/systems/approach they have for difference/inclusion/family models and see what they say - you'll soon get the idea of what sort of place it is and whether you would feel happy having your child educated there. You may be pleasantly surprised. I think you have to consider some of the advanatges established schools have, such as PE and science equipment, school trips, teaching expertise etc.  
But if you do decide to do things at home there is a wealth of resources and curriculum information on the internet. 
Incredible and sad woo, that your sexuality got in the way of your teaching - I was sorry to read that. 

Anyway i take full responsibility for completely warping the topic of this thread as it is supposed to be about telling - but it is so interesting!!!!!!!!!

kx


----------



## snagglepat

Hi Kitty,

I can understand how difficult it must have been for you to teach sex ed, full stop! Ouch. 

Would it have made a difference if you had had cues from this boy when you were talking about homosexuality though? I'd have imagined that the reason for raising homosexuality (and bisexuality, as it is different again) would have been to normalise it, make pupils aware of it as something as average and everyday as any other sexuality. Then, if any student in the class had an 'alternative' family they would feel as included and as valid as any other child without needing to feel as though they stood out at all. Or am I wrong in this?

By the time our children are school age we will probably be living somewhere pretty rural, either in Shropshire or mid-Wales. I have no doubt that there will be good schools around, but I have seen so many friends' children have terrible problems with bullying because their parents were lesbian/bi/transsexual/other unconventional, despite being at schools that were open and celebrating of diversity. It's not the schools that are at fault, it's the attitudes that some kids have picked up that is behind the bullying that goes on both inside and outside the school gates. I'm sure that we'd be able to find a school that would endeavour to be inclusive should we choose to follow that route. There are a lot of options out there, including homeshooling full or part-time, mainstream school full or part time, alternative schools such as the Montessouri or Steiner models... the list goes on. But I think we'll worry about that when we actually do manage to get pregnant and stay that way. Actively planning the education for an as yet non-existant child is a bit too much to think about at the moment. 

Best wishes to you, and to everyone else,

Gina.


----------



## nhklh

KittyR said:


> Hi, thanks for replying, it was really interesting to read your comments. I just sincerely hope any ignorance or short sightedness I might have shown in my previous posts didn't offend or irriate anyone. I was speaking honestly and respectfully.


Just wanted to say that it is great that you DID ask! Much better to ask questions and be informed than to make assumptions. 

As for home-schooling, for DS and potential-future-baby it's nothing to do with bullying at all, but more about how he will learn best.


----------



## Hollypops

We plan to take our chances on this and not tell the child. 
If we manage to get pregnant with DIUI, the baby will be ours end of - I personally couldn't look at it any other way. In the eyes of the law, my DH is the Father. Nurturing from birth is what is important IMO.

Holly xxx


----------



## thespouses

KittyR said:


> It was so hard last year because I taught the class sex education, which was personally hard for me as of course it was all about how to make babies (ha bloody ha)


Another completely off topic post, but I couldn't help sympathising here. I teach child development which includes some stuff on prenatal development - I'm just about to teach it again and last year when I taught it I was pregnant (but not letting on - had a miscarriage at 10 weeks) and I kept thinking "ooh, my baby's like that". And now I have to teach it again this year with that all in my mind.


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## Jayne

Holly, I couldn't agree more that the baby will be yours and your dh's, Jack and Ben are most certainly mine and my dh's and dh is most definitely their father.  Telling doesn't change that!   Any donor conceived child is never anything less than the child of the parents that nurture and raise them.  

As already said, we all have the right to do as we feel best for our child and our family.  We didn't plan to tell either, but once Jack was here it was different.  I looked beyond childhood and believe that when the boys are adult and we are dead and gone they have the right to know how they were conceived.  I can't lie to my babies.  I'm not scared of being found out, I just can't lie to the most precious people in my life. 

Jayne x


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## manda73uk

Hi everyone, 

Just some advice please. Myself and DH have already got a DD through ivf, and i made 19 eggs.  We have just returned from fertility clinic having enquired about being a donor. We would like to help someone else plus maybe be lucky enough to give Caitlan a brother or sister. The financial side of it makes it also very appealing. My dilemma, as i suppose is the big one for every donor is, now the HFEA can give information about donors to a child aged 18, how would we feel if that child wanted to find us. i found it very interesting reading the few last posts here, and the majority are or have told their children already. 

Im a so confused at the minute, i personally would tell the child but i would be devasted if he/she tried to track down the donor. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 

Love Mand x


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## LiziBee

Mand - I think it's fab that you want to egg share. I think it such a kind and generous thing to do for another couple. I understand your concern about being traced but I'd like to make the point that even if couples do decide to tell the offspring it doesn't necessarily mean they will choose to trace the donor. At our clinic it was pointed out to us that less that one in 3 ever try to find more details about their donor (or natural parents if adopted), never mind 'trace' them. Even fewer choose to make contact and on top of that the average number of contacts is less than 3.

On the subject of teaching sex ed - oh happy memories! I was a science teacher for 12 years and I think that sometimes sex ed was a highlight of the year!!

Lizi.xxxxx


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## thespouses

snagglepat said:


> There are some great books out there that include kids with same-sex parents. Some of my favourites are 'Heather has two mommies' and 'The Duke who outlawed jelly beans and other stories'. You can get them both from Amazon. The currently available edition of 'Heather has two mommies' is the second one. The original apparently had more information about how heather was conceived, but it's no longer in print. I keep looking out for a first edition as the one I have is the second, but I haven't spotted one yet.


I find quite a lot of older books through abebooks.com - they have lots of copies of this. I think the one you are looking for would be the 1989 edition?


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## Mikeygirl

Jayne said:


> Any donor conceived child is never anything less than the child of the parents that nurture and raise them.... I looked beyond childhood and believe that when the boys are adult and we are dead and gone they have the right to know how they were conceived. I can't lie to my babies. I'm not scared of being found out, I just can't lie to the most precious people in my life.
> 
> Jayne x


  All,

I am new here but, unfortunately as you'll see from our history, am not new to the whole ttc with donor sperm rollercoaster!!

I couldn't agree more with Jayne. My dh and I are also very firmly in the 'telling camp'. Although we realise that this may not always be an 'easy' road to travel both for us and any children we (hopefully) will have, we fundamentally believe that the only way it is possible to create a healthy, well-functioning family is based on trust and honesty...It could be seen by some as a 'risk' to share this information with any children we may have, but we feel confident in our decision to use DI and so see no need to lie to our children (who will be the most important and precious people in our lives) about how they have been conceived&#8230;.We have talked over this issue on many a long night/early morning and just can't imagine how the psychological and emotional effort and defensiveness that would be needed over a lifetime to keep this 'secret' would not taint in some way each and every experience as a family; cannot imagine a life of communication with our children but also with them as young adults and onwards, that would be only a 'half-story'&#8230;It's also our belief that children are resilient and will ALWAYS manage truth and honesty better than secrets and deceit&#8230;

I can understand the feelings of fear that are behind most decisions not to tell; fear of being rejected by your child, of you and your child being rejected by others close to you, but without wanting to sound facile, love is always stronger than fear and a loving parent and family, in my view, is by definition an open and honest one.

Not sure if any of you have read "Building a Family with the assistance of donor insemination" by Professor Ken Daniels (2004)&#8230; It is a truly inspirational book based on extensive research with families using DI which really helped me and my dh in working through the whole range of issues raised by DI and I would recommend it as essential reading for anyone on this journey.

Anyway, that for what it's worth is how I feel about the whole 'telling' debate&#8230;I am due to test tomorrow to see if our latest treatment is a BFP so this whole issue is very much at the forefront of my mind at the moment, as we are hoping that our family-building will move on that step further!!

Would love to hear from others about this, if I haven't already missed the boat on this thread!

Mikeygirl x


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## LiziBee

Holly, it's not a selfish decision but a very understandable one. You did what you needed to do, that and the care you have shown in collecting all your memories for your children shows how seriously you take it all and I am positive your children will accept that.  Would it help if I told you that I read last night that from the moment they are born they will show a preference for your voice (even a preference for English over Spanish voices), they know who their mummy is.
Lizi.x


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## Eggsey

Hi Holly,

I don't know if it will help, or not, but we have no intention of telling our baby anything at all about it's origins.  Our reasons are simple, it has now become obvious that my DH cannot be the "biological" father of his two daughters, so we can't say anything to our baby, or his "daughters" will find out that daddy isn't really daddy at all!

I was also told that the psychologists in Spain completely disagree with the English ones and say it's better NOT to say anything to the child, so I'm going to stick with their advice and say nothing.

We've thought long and hard about it and can't really see what the child gains by knowing a) it's an IVF baby and/or b) it's not our own, biological child.  I can only see it as damaging to them to know this.  It would mark them out as "different" and I think children have a hard enough time fitting in with their peers, without making it even more difficult for them.  There's no way that our "secret" will ever be discovered, as only my mum knows the truth and it will die with her.

Our child will know it was planned, wanted, loved and cherished right from the start and just how special he/she is to us, without the need to bring in other circumstances around it's birth.  

It's a really personal decision I know, but we have made ours with very good reasons indeed.  If we chose to "reveal all" we would cause endless pain to DH's existing children, his mum and dad, all his other relatives, to the ex wife, her family and on and on and on.  It can only bring harm, no good would come of it.

Sorry if this is a bit of ramble, it's early in the morning!  But, I hope it's of some to know that it's not always a clear cut decision.

Love and hugs to all, Pxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## chrissier

Dear Holly

I think you are worrying unnecessarily.  How could the children possibly resent what you did.  Without the decision you made to have donor eggs they wouldn't have a life at all.  These days it is becoming commonplace to use donor material and with the increase in infertility it will become even more so.  Why should you feel guilty about creating a new life.  I hope you will get over this and start to look forward to all the exciting times ahead with your children.  As the previous writer said, these children will recognise you as their mummy from day one.  You will be the only mummy they will know - so enjoy!!!

Chrissie


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## Mikeygirl

Hi Holly,

Reading your message this morning made me think again that although we too have decided that 'telling' is the only way forward for us, this might not always be an easy road to travel. It is more than likely that we will be told today at our followup consultation that we will need to use donor eggs (in addition to donor sperm) so your message hit a chord with little 'niggles' about 'selfishness' I have had over recent days...I can only imagine that with all the emotions wrapped up in pregnancy and preparing for the arrival of your twins, understandably, there could be times when maybe you think 'did we do the right thing'? 

But, I totally agree with the other ladies you have posted...you have absolutely shown no selfishness. Quite the contrary - You and your DH have created two precious lives; without your body biologically nourishing these two lives, they would not grow and develop into the beautiful babies that will soon be with you; everything you invest in your pregnancy and onwards will demonstrate to your twins how much they are loved and wanted.

The care you have taken in preparing a memory box, writing a journal and, in my personal view, the future love and respect you intend to show them by being honest and open about your decision to use a donor, shows that you are putting the future needs of your twins first..how can that be selfish?

Even now, the twins recognise only you as their mum; as Lizi says, at this very moment they are patterning the sound of your voice...you will be their world just as they will be yours.

Try not to let these niggles overshadow your much longed-for pregnancy - enjoy every minute of the happiness you and your family so deserve!!

Big 's to you Holly,

Mikeygirl x


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## Guest

Holly

Just wanted to add my thoughts... I have 10 embryos "on ice" and we have made the decision that we will offer them to our clinic for use.

I can't see any children born to other parents as anything other than theirs - I didn't give birth to them or give them life. 9 months in their mothers womb did that.

I would be interested to know if anyone had a successful pregnancy but thats only because I like the thought of knowing I'd helped someone else to have the joy I have with my son - especially as I waited for so long for him.

I would personally be surprised if many donors see themselves as parents of any child that someone else carried and gave birth to. In my world, you would be the ONLY parents. 

The only consideration that I can see with my embryos is that the parents would have to be very fair skinned and not mind ginger hair!!!

Witch


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## Ginger

Hey there witch

Nice sentiment!! I have ginger hair and thought I would NEVER find a fair skinned, red headed donor but guess what... I did!! See, us ginger haired people really do have big hearts!!

Lots of love

Ginger xxx

p.s. I got a   today!!


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## Guest

Ginger

OMG  - they don't have a double back flip ra-ra dancing screaming pomp pomp icon (I thought they were supposed to be emoticons..... )

Congratulations - I'll keep everything crossed for you (bit of a problem with the long drive tomorrow though  )

Hope your child is a beautiful as mine (well with ginger hair it will be naturally)


Witch


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## Guest

Now I'm going to reveal how truly stoopid I am...

Whats a bubble? I've suddenly got 2 and i don't know what they are  


Witch


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## LiziBee

Witch -  you are so wonderful to donate your frosties. Wish everyone had a big a heart as you!
(The ginger force is strong in our families also!!) Bubbles are like a 'karma' rating, we can send others bubbles when we feel happy for them, or want to show support etc. and you have many more than 2 now!

Ginger - hurrah!! Many many congratulations!

Lizi.xxx


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## Guest

Have just notified our clinic to go ahead with using our embryos

Its really wierd.... I'm almost as excited as I was when I started my own treatment  

They have promised to let me know if anyone gets pregnant  - we have 10 grade 1 frosties so I really hope somebody does  

If theres anyone around the Hammersmith area that wants a white, irish and Birmingham descent embie, let them know...


Witch


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## Anthony Reid

Your a truly wonderful person.

Thank you 

Tony
x

ps. Have some bubbles


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## LiziBee

Witch -          Thank you so much. You're great you are! (and DH too!!)
Love hugs and bubbles,
Lizi.x


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## Guest

Thanks for the support


but I'm just in the same boat really - god knows I've cried over the years...........

Witch xx


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## Morvern

Hi all

I'm considering getting DE treatment abroad and I've read this thread with interest.  I haven't made my mind up yet about what I would do re telling the child and I have no views on what is right or wrong - I'm just thinking aloud and if anyone would be kind enough to share their views/experiences with me I'd be grateful.

Let's say I was lucky enough to have a child by DE and the donor was anonymous, let's also say that my husband and I didn't tell anyone that we were using a DE. What then would be the point to telling the child? I mean if the donor is anonymous and no information about the donor exists anyway? What would the child be expected to do with that information? How would it help them?

I was thinking about this this morning. I was thinking about how I would feel if my mum told me that my dad is not my genetic dad and she got the sperm from an anonymous donor. I can't see how that would help me and I honestly don't think I would thank her for telling me. The only reason I would want to know is if everybody else in the family knew.

These are just some thoughts - I'm trying my best to think this through. All contributions (especially if you  disagree) welcome.


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## LiziBee

Morvern, 
I don't think there is a right or wrong to this debate. I admire your strength in saying it makes no difference to who you are but having that security suddenly taken away from you can be very unsettling.
Say my mum used donor eggs and didn't tell me. Well it so happens I work in a university science faculty with a thriving genetics department, last year as part of a demo I had my genotypes sequenced. If I'd found out then that some of my genes could not have come from either my mother or my father I would know that one of them was not my genetic forebear - I've spent all my life 'knowing' I am LiziBee, daughter of Mr and Mrs Bee, suddenly I that would change and I would feel so hurt that the people I had trusted most had lied to me. I don't think I could have coped. 
I know it sounds far fetched but I know someone working in the department who realised something similar during her degree, as a result she hasn't spoken to her parents since (which is hard for me as her parents are my husbands relatives, but I've not told her that), it has ripped her family apart ('the bomb under the kitchen table' my MIL said) and it breaks my heart having her Mum and Dad ask me how she is. (They are now completely open about what happened.) Someone who DH describes as having been a 'normal girl' is now very insecure (about everything) and very angry and aggressive. I'd say it's effected her ability to form any sort of loving relationship.

Our child will be the most important thing in our lives when it is born (actually it already is) how could we live with ourselves not telling our child the truth, knowing that what happened to DH's cousin could happen to us - I couldn't do it. So we will tell, even though our donor is anonymous.
I hope that gives you another point of view to consider.
love and hugs
Lizi.x


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## Morvern

Thanks for taking the time to put your point of view Lizi - it's most helpful. And congratulations by the way.

Obviously this is a really tricky situation and we're all trying to feel our way. I don't question the fact that finding something like that out by accident must be devastating for a family, and I admire you saying that you couldn't lie to your child - this is the strongest argument in favour of telling them, as far as I can see. But my worry is what the child does with that information if the donor is anonymous? I mean it's not like they can ever find out who the donor was...so what do they do? My worry is that this information might make them feel alienated from me and cause them to wonder about the donor.

If I had been conceived by anonymous sperm I don't see how that would make me any less the daughter of my father. I would still be the same person I am now - Morvern the daughter of Mr & Mrs Morvern.

Thanks for helping me think this through.


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## Deelou

Hi ladies,
I'm wondering if there is anyone in the same situation as me? My DH and I have a wonderful son born after 4 rounds of IVF with our own eggs and sperm. We would love another child, but our latest IVF failed and I am reluctant to keep trying much longer. We have been told that the odds of another IVF working are low, but would be higher if we used donor eggs. I'm sure there are all sorts of issues we should be thinking about re having one biological and one donor egg child, but we don't know where/how to start. Any advice greatly appreciated.
Dee


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## dochinka99

I am a single  parent with donor sperm.  When I was pg,  I kept the father a secret.  I never told anyone who the truth.  I have a good friend, George, and I pretended it was his.  It wasn't and both of us knew this.  It was my secret and I could use someone's name.  However, when DD was born,  I knew that I couldn't continue the lie. I had to tell the truth.  I was so proud of her that I told anyone who asked ALLL about her! (TMI I'm sure!)  But she knows.  She knows that I really wanted a baby and went to a lot of effort to have her.  Her biological father is completely anonymous and she knows this.  It sometimes is hard on her, (when children tease her) but I've told her that it's her story. She can share as much or as little as she likes.  Because she's known from the beginning- it's not as shocking as hearing it for the first time when she's older.  I want her to be proud of herself -the way she was created- and not demoralized by it.  Truth is what works for me.


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## ClaryRose

Hello

For what it's worth - we are battling with the idea of having donor eggs abroad. I was adopted and only found out when I was 16 from a friend at school who knew through her parents - purely by chance it may seem but it happened - this came as a huge shock and has indeed coloured my life immensely. It is for this reason I cannot imagine not telling achild. It is SO important that a child grows up knowing their true genetic identity. I have seriously battled with this issue as life appears to be so much easier if nothing is said. But long term and with others knowing - those you even meet on the websire or a friend or relative or anyone you may just mention it too - in the future, may just by accident say something. With genetic testing becoming so much more a part of medical screening too, by the time our children are grown - ithe children will find out anyway and is this how we want it to happen? Where does that leave you as a parent - with a child who feels you have lied to them. Not a healthy relationship for child or parents. Alsod the thought this may happen is just too much to contemplate, living with a secret this big is too much. I would say, every time - the child needs to know. Hope thats not preaching, by the way!!!!


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## Wdow

Hi My name is Wendy,

I am new to this site and unsure of my way round at the moment I have had 3 tries at IVF with egg donor and have a wounderful son but I have no intentions of telling him that he is from a donor egg. I don't want him to look at me as if he is not mine.

Speak soon

Wxx


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## Essex Girl

Hi  Can I add my two-pennyworth?

I am coming at the DE issue from a slightly different angle, as we are looking at having DE from a close relative, so anonymity is out of the question, and we wouldn't want to have secrets from our child anyway.  

I would certainly say the child should know.  Does any parent have the right to deprive a child of fundamental information about its identity?  Issues of genetic inheritance will arise during the child's life, for instance, in family medical history.  If you are to keep the child's genetic identity secret, he or she could wrongly expect to inherit family tendencies to particular medical conditions.

My DH and I have discussed the issue of how and when to tell, and we think the most damage is done if the child finds out accidentally, or later in life when it has grown up with certain assumptions about its identity.  Obviously, it's harder to explain DE conception than adoption to a young child, but we have decided that the way forward is to gradually drip-feed them information, that X helped us to have him/her, then when they ask where babies come from, to say about the egg, but to say that as mine were no good, X gave me one of hers.  DH makes the good point that young children accept all sorts of things without question (like Father Chirstmas coming down the chimney with his sleigh and reindeer), and gradually think round and add to the info as they get older.  It probably won't trouble a young child to think that they came from an egg from someone else, and if they grow up knowing everyone is Ok with that, it will be less of a big deal when they come to learn about genetics and realise the implications of that for them.  

With an unrelated donor, there may be an issue of the child not looking like either parent (we know someone with DE twins: one looks like Dad and the other looks like neither parent), and knowing they are from DE may help a child who is conscious of not looking like its parents.

I hope this helps the debate- my apologies if I have worded things too stridently.  And good luck to all of you who are contemplating or going through donor treatment.  It's a minefield, and at the end of the day, we all want what is best for our children.

Essex Girl


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## stephanie1

Hello

I agree with Essex girl all the way and I always pictured in my mind what if there is an accident and your child needs blood and the doctor ask the parents and then you will have to say that it is only one of you. Your child will be upset and will not understand why he was not told before! I realsie this may not hapen but if it does it may become a drama.

The other idea that makes me believe that you have to tell them is that. As things are going more and more dhilfren are conceived using donors and if they happen to meet another person in the same case it may be necessary that they do blood test if in turn they want tp have kids. Could they potentially marry to someone related by blood without knowing! The chance is small but it may happen. 

Another side is if your child feels different from you physically or else at least they will know why if you explain the situation drop feeding. When we saw the counsellor in our clinic he said that there is a small children book around that you can read to them which explains the story. 

Good luck with your decisions and TTC.

For our parts if it works and we do have kids then we will tell them.


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## sunday

Hi everyone. We also gave it a lot of thought and did lots of research, about using DS and about telling the child. There are two factors we had to consider: do we tell, and do we use anonymous? 

Telling the child its roots seeemed to not be such a question. After some research on the internet, we seemed to find that telling is better not only for the child, but also for the parents and their relationship. Holding back such information over years can add stress to the family, especially if the child starts asking questions at some point. I think that there are also plenty of groups around for discussusion about this. Moreover, the child, as  another human being, has the right to know, and that sort of seems like one of the things you take on, when you decide to use a donor. You hear stories about adopted children all the time - some have difficulties with it, and some dont - it seems a lot of how the child will cope with the situation has to do with the family environment he or she grows up in.

Also, we live in such a technological world, and more and more couples are using this therapy, so it seems infallible that by the time the child is at an age where he truly understands, that it will not be soo terribly uncommon - at least not that much where he cannot find support as well.  Regarding the use of anonymous DS or not, that was the bigger question for us, and in the end we decided on anonymous. With that decision, we also accept that there could be consequences later, but also have our reasons and would be totally supportive if the child decided he or she wanted to try and find the geneological father. There is a website for instance, called the Donor Sibiling Registry, in the United States, that a DS boy and his mother founded several years ago, and since then many kids have started looking. 

If you are not sure, take your time - especially when you are still in your early 30s. Its worth waiting til you are sure (and important) as it is a big step, and in the end of the day, the most important thing is that you feel solid in your decision. Good Luck!


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## Jayne

Just wanted to update this thread with my story of 'telling' our boys.  We got the book 'My Story' and I've been reading it to Jack for a while now, but not sure how much of it has sunk in.  For the past 6 months or so, we've not really mentioned anything to him or read the book, and then last night he came out with the question - ever so casually -'how are babies made?'.  He's asked in the past where they come from (even though he knows as he saw me (not literally) have Ben, but I'm not sure how much of that he remembers as he was only 3), and that's always been answered, from mummy's tummy and then we get 'My Story' out and just add in how he got in mummy's tummy in a special way. But last night that answer didn't wash.  He's 6 this month and wanted to know exactly how babies were made and how they got in the mummy's tummy in the first place.  Hmmmmm!    So, I told him as simply as I could without any fairy stories.  He thought what I said was very comical, and giggled all the way through my brief and age suitable explanation    The he said, so did you and daddy do that? At this point dh laughed and left the room! Great!    So, out came the book again (handy thing that book ), and this time there was a real understanding of what I was saying, and he briefly pondered the biology of it all as well, but didn't press it, so I said no more, as I plan to be guided by him on that question.  It's honestly the first time that I've really felt that what I said, was understood.  I know he will have absorbed some of what I've been saying in the past, but this time it was like a little light of understanding went on in his head.  

I told him that how he was made was private to us, so we weren't going to be telling all his friends or anything, but that he could talk to mummy and daddy anytime he wanted to about it.  He seemed fine with this.  He's the sort of child who is okay at keeping stuff private.  Plus, because it's all not such a bit deal to him as he's just growing up knowing this (I'm sure all the stuff I've told him in the past has been absorbed to a degree) I don't think it's something he's going to run off excitedly to tell his mates!  I think the whole thing of being told how a baby is made rated far higher on the giggle scale to him than the fact he wasn't made that way    If he did tell the world though, then so be it.  It's not some sordid secret afterall.  

Anyhow, sorry if that's all a bit waffly, I just wanted to give some experience to this thread of actually telling a child, and how well it's going for us so far   

Jayne x


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## Essey

Hi all, I read this thread with great interest as I am undergoing treatment to donate eggs to people I have never met and never had contact with.  While I enormously appreciate everyone's right to make their own decisions in deciding whether or not to tell the child, has anyone considered what a huge deal it is for egg donors to make the decision in the first place to donate eggs and then the obvious burden of going through weeks of hormone therapy, injections and finally egg collection. All of this is not without risk to the woman donating eggs and now there are no assurances of anonymity, so a donor may wonder whether someone will come knocking on the door in 18 years.  My question is, would anyone consider telling the child about the donated sperm/eggs out of respect for the donor (who in most cases donates purely altruistically).  I'm currently filling in the green form (been doing it for days) and am wondering whether it is a bit pointless, as I have no idea whether any future children will even have the opportunity to read it!  Anyway, I hope no-one takes this message the wrong way, and I wish heartfelt GOOD LUCK to anyone receiving donated sperm/eggs, regardless of what their decision is about telling the child.


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## LiziBee

Jayne - thanks for sharing that story. Where can I get 'my story' from?

Essey - our donor has chosen to remain anonymous so Rosa wont be knocking on anyone's door. However I think the concept of a knock on the door coming from out of the blue is missplaced, I think **** have to inform you if someone has asked for the details of their donor. (Further more they can only give the the child the last address you gave them.)
Talking of which the little mite has woken......
love and hugs
Lizi.x


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## Jayne

Lizzi, I got 'My Story' from the Donor Conception Network.  Did buy it about 6 years or so ago now mind, so hopefully it's still available  

There was one for older children too, but I missed out on that and don't think it's around anymore   It would've been very useful.  Can't remember what it was called now.  

Love 
Jayne x


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## Mikeygirl

Hi Lizzie,

The Donor Conception Network has recently produced a new series of 4 books called 'Talking and Telling' which covers the issues around discussing donation with children from when they are very young to when they are young adults..You can download them free from the website at:

http://www.donor-conception-network.org/tellandtalk.html

Mikeygirl x


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## olivia m

My Story, for children conceived into a heterosexual family by sperm donation, is still available from DC Network price £6.50 (inc. p+p) from PO Box 7471, Nottingham NG3 6ZR or £7 via Paypal on the website www.dcnetwork.org
There are also three different books all with the title Our Story, for children conceived by egg donation, children conceived into lesbian families by sperm donation and children conceived by sperm donation to single women. They are all the same price as My Story.
The book for older children, Let Me Explain, has now gone out of print but there are several copies in the DC network library, available to be borrowed by members.

The new Telling and Talking booklets are for parents of children aged 0-7,8-11,12-16 and 17+.  They cover using known egg or sperm donors as well as addressing issues following the ending of anonymity for donors in 2005 and having children who have come into the family in a number of different ways (adoption, step-parenting, without assistance, as well as egg or sperm donation etc.).  There are lots of practical examples of language to use when telling and how to use situations that come up in everyday family life to hang additional information on. They can be downloaded free from the website or hard copies bought for £4 each.
Hope this is helpful.
Olivia


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## LiziBee

Thanks for the information Olivia, have some bubbles!
Lizi.x


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## sunday

Jayne - i just read your story and had to giggle because the boys look so sweet and I can just picture the whole scene...its soo sweet, and you sound like you have done a great job with the whole situtation - thanks for the story.


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## Jayne

I really should update those pics!


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## Tonia2

Another thank you for the info Olivia! 
I'm off to order a few books from the DCN...

Thanks,  
Tonia


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## lucky2010

Thanks Olivia,

We've just ordered one of the books from the DCN

Rach and Julie x


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## x shye x

Hi hope no,one minds me sticking my nose in, im a egg sharer and i must confess its a very heart felt situation for everyone involved.  I decided that i would do a goodwill letter to the child wheather the parents decide to show or read to the child is altogether different but for myself and the child i thought it was important for myself and the child to have the information if they should want it.  I understand not everyone would agree with this its just i have come across situations where the child have wanted information and there is none avaliable and the affects on the child can be very upsetting.  Even if the child decides they dont want to know or they would like to read but not contact its there waiting(sorry if i have upset anyone with what i have said).

I found writing the letter very hard and emotional, Im very happy to share my eggs dont get me wrong its just when your writing to that child it can be hard, i have a child of my own and knowing what to say and only having  page to do it does not leave alot of room and u also want to cover everything u think the child may want to know.  I do think every decision is different and there is no wrong or right its a personal decision.

Just thought it might be nice to have a view from a egg sharer and hope i have not upset anyone.

Good luck to all u ladies xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

shye xxx


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## florie

Hi everyone ,

I just though i would introduce myself and wondered if anybody could give me any feedback?

Dh and i were so sure that we were *not* going to tell any child of ours that they were going conceived through DE and were sure we were going abroad for treatment so it could still be anonymous.

However we have recently started counselling and have since had huge u-turn! We now are strongly considering treatment in the UK and telling the child. We have ordered a couple of books from the DCN to have a look at. I have to say that since thinking about this i feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders, it's like keeping the secret was already stressing me out and i haven't even started treatment yet!! 

I just wanted to know from people that have told their children whether they have told all their friends and family as well. Or have you only told very close people? I am really scared about the reaction of my in-laws and don't think i would want to tell them until after the child was born so they had met it first and weren't too judgemental before hand. They live in South Africa (we are in the UK) and we only see them once a year. Apart from my mother in-law who we see more regularly. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated as i'm sure you will all agree it is such a confusing time 

Thanks in advance for any info
Florie x


----------



## Mandy42

Hi Florie

I think its a very personal decision whether to tell or not and I am not judgemental one way or the other.  We decided to be as open as possible and told family before we even started treatment.  After we had our DD (Olivia) we told our older daughter (7) and plan to tell Olivia as soon as we feel its right.  I told our older daughter when we were discussing babies in general and combined this with "Our story" which I had obtained from the DCN and adapted to make it Olivia's story.  Olivia looks at the book and likes the pictures but does not understand it as yet as she is only 16 months!  

I think you will be surprised with your family's reaction - hopefully pleasantly.  My dad is in his 70's and very old fashioned but he supported my decision (even though he did not really understand how it could work).  He now loves Olivia as much as his other grandchildren.  My mum has also been very supportive.  I guess my advice is if you have decided to disclose then be open about it and start telling immediate family (including in laws) when you feel appropriate.  I have told some close friends but not that many as yet.  So far I have not had any negative reactions.  My only slight worry is that our donor was annonymous and so Olivia will never be able to find out more about the lovely lady who donated her eggs (we went to Spain).  However I cannot turn the clock back and we went to Spain due to the waiting lists over in the UK not because I did not want the donor details disclosed to any child that resulted.  

Good luck 

Mandy


----------



## florie

Hi Mandy  

Thanks for your reply, it is great to hear other people's experiences. I'm really pleased that your family were so supportive.  

I think it is just the fear of the unknown....it's not something we have ever discussed in general with family members so i have no idea what their reaction will be. I know it sounds crazy but i worry that my in-laws will feel it is more their child than mine because they are genetically related.   Madness i know and I'm sure once we have a child all those fears will disappear. We are just at the beginning of a very long journey. I think in situations like this you always expect people to react badly however they nearly always turn out to be very sympathetic and compassionate  .....that doesn't make it any easier though does it?!!

I'm sure as you are being so open with Olivia she will grow up with a clear understanding of why you went to Spain and how much she was wanted  . 

Best wishes
Florie x


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## olivia m

Hi Florie
So pleased that you have decided to 'tell' any child you have.  On the subject of friends and family you may find it helpful to have a look at the Telling and Talking booklets on our web site, www.dcnetwork.org
They are free to download from there and contain the experiences of many families talking with others about donor conception....as well as examples of timing and language to use when 'telling' children.
Very best wishes
Olivia (a grown-up one!)


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## florie

Thanks Olivia i will investigate the website  

luv
Florie x


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## sweetcaroline

Thanks Jayne for updating us on telling your boys; it did make me smile and it definitely sounds like Jack is taking it in his stride.

I've been thinking about everything a lot recently and am awaiting delivery of 'My Story'.  I thought we had decided to tell Sebastian when he was older (no fixed age in mind but old enough that we didn't have to think about it for a while!).  But one night after a few drinks DH had a rare outpouring about the issue and admitted that when he sees Seb smiling and laughing he feels really sorry for him because one day we are going to have to drop a 'bombshell' by telling him he is donor-conceived.

This got me thinking that maybe it is best that it is something that Seb has "always" known.  Although of course he won't understand it for ages and the implications might suddenly sink in and upset him, at least he won't be angry that we withheld the information and it won't be a complete shock.  I tried to imagine how I would have felt if my parents had told me as a teenager, and I think my overriding questions would have been 'Why didn't you think I could handle it?  Did you think I would have rejected Dad?'

As for the keeping it private thing, I agree with you Jayne:  it's not some sordid secret.  I do fear the gossip and teasing (particularly as we live on a small island) but not for DH and I, rather for Sebastian.  Kids can be so cruel and I would like to have some measure of whether he's a sensitive soul or a little toughie who will deal with it well.  It's a little early to tell although early indications are that he is a toughie!  

It's all a bit of a minefield isn't it... but I did say to DH 'Don't you dare feel sorry for Seb, he is so lucky'.  Overall I really think he is, as are we to have him.

Best of luck to everyone
Caroline xxx


----------



## ClaryRose

Hi Jayne

Can I ask another questions please - was your donor anonymous?  I think this makes a big difference too.  If you tell achild and they have absolutely no way of tracing their genetic father/mother - what is the point ?  I am interested as I am in the position at the moment of choosing between an anonymous and a non-anonymous donor.  Your comments would be really appreciated.


----------



## sweetcaroline

Hi ClaryRose

I know you were asking Jayne a specific question but I was interested in you saying that it makes a difference whether your donor was anonymous or not - do you mean in whether to tell?  I believe that all donors were anonymous before April 2005 and that sperm already donated could continue to be used after that date, with the donors still remaining anonymous.  I conceived in May 2005 and our donor was anonymous.

I do worry that, when we tell our son, he will be frustrated that he is unable to trace our donor.  However, I don't see that as an excuse not to tell him; after all I imagine that many children will choose not to trace their genetic father/mother even if they have that option.  We didn't get to choose whether our donor was anonymous or not, there must be a lot to weigh up when making that decision.  You’d think having more choices was a good thing but often it just gives you more to agonise about!  I think a lot about telling our son and how he’ll react but I (hopefully not too naively) feel confident that he will feel so loved and secure he’ll be able to deal with it.

Good luck in your decision making process!
Caroline x


----------



## sushiguru

Hi all,

I've been reading through the posts in this thread, and appreciate that it goes all the way back to May 2005, so some people originally posting will no longer be active forum members.  For the sake of balance I thought I'd register here and post; I am a sperm donor.

I found it quite saddening to read many posts where parents would not seek to tell their DC children of their origins.  As a donor I have no desire to be the 'parent' of any children concieved using my sperm, but neither would I ignore them if they chose to make contact with me in the future; I would certainly never seek to be that child's 'father': I am just the donor of some biological material that was used to assist in their conception.

Whilst I understand that some parents are concerned about the reaction they may receive on telling their DC children about their conception, I strongly agree with other posts that the earlier you start educating your children about their origins the better and easier the long term understanding will be between parents and child.  The last thing I, as a donor, would ever wish to see is distress in any child, especially one standing at my doorstep asking me the question: 'why'.

sg.


----------



## olivia m

Thank you so much for your reassuring post sg.  DC Network does everything it can to support and guide parents around the issue of 'telling', but posts sharing feelings and attitudes like yours help enormously.  There is nothing to fear about 'telling'...it really is a much easier option than holding on to such a big secret for a lifetime.
Olivia


----------



## florie

Hi Sg

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.....it is great to hear how you feel as a donor.

Just to update people on our situation we have told all our family and a few close friends about my POF and the situation with using DE.....and happily i can report that no-one ran screaming for the hills   . Everyone we have told has been SO supportive and reassured us that the genetics don't matter in terms of making a family. I just wanted to post here incase anyone else is at that scary stage of telling others. I feel so relieved that other people know because we don't have to lie and be careful about what we are saying.....at least now people have had time to adjust to the idea before we fall pregnant and can be positive and supportive throughout our DE IVF experiences  . It really is so true that these sort of things are a much bigger issue for you and your partner than they are for others and you will be surprised at how helpful your friends and family can be  

We are now on the waiting list for a DE and it shouldn't be too much longer until we get a match.....it is a nerve recking time but i'm sure it will be worth it  

Luv

Florie x


----------



## stephanie1

Hello


first of all I want to say a big thank you to the sushi guru. Without people like you a lot of couples would have their dreams shuttered. So       

We have ourselves decided to tell ou children if we get lucky enough but due to the shortage last summer we had to be on a bigh waitig list and we decided to go to Belgium. The only down side is that donors are anonymous which is on the other side it also why they still have donors there. It is a catch 22 and we really want to try. It is never simple.

Good luck Florie with DE.

TTFN

Steph


----------



## Jayne

ClaryRose said:


> Hi Jayne
> 
> Can I ask another questions please - was your donor anonymous? I think this makes a big difference too. I am interested as I am in the position at the moment of choosing between an anonymous and a non-anonymous donor. Your comments would be really appreciated.


Hi, apologies for the late reply. I'm afraid I don't read this board as much as I used to. I imagine you may have already made your decision between anonymous and a known donor by now, but thought I'd reply to your query nonetheless 

Yes, as Sweet Caroline has already said, when I had the boys there wasn't an option to choose a known donor. At that time they were all anonymous. As a known donor wasn't something I ever had to consider, I don't feel I'm best placed to really help you in your decision making process. I've never given it enough thought in depth to give helpful advice.



ClaryRose said:


> Hi Jayne
> 
> If you tell achild and they have absolutely no way of tracing their genetic father/mother - what is the point ?


Well, it's a personal decision, but the point for us is that we have chosen to tell the boys because we don't want to lie to our children about how they came into this world. They will become adults who will be around long after we're gone, and as such, we feel they have the right to know how they were conceived. It's as simple and clear cut as that for us. It would be very convenient for us to think it easier not to tell (telling is scarey!) as there could be potential difficult times ahead for us and them, but nobody knows what will happen, and that goes for telling and not telling, so we're going with the truth on this one and won't lie to our precious boys.

Good luck with your decisions 

Will just give a bit of an update on how our 'telling' is going. Jack is 6 and a half now and it's a bit strange really. Life kind of just goes on, day to day, and I forget 99% of the time about the boys being donor conceived. Dh is the same. This is great of course, and as it should be, but I'm a bit worried now that I'm not 'telling' enough. I don't want to make a huge deal out of it and make it a daily lecture, so I do just try to drop it into the odd conversation here and there, when Jack asks something about babies or there is an opportune moment, but he doesn't ask about that sort of stuff all the time and I'm not sure if I'm giving the information often enough. I don't want him to forget what I've said and then suddenly it is like a bombshell for him after all. So, I'm struggling a little at the moment to find the balance  I expect that once Ben's at the age where he starts reading the book My Story (haven't really done that with him much, but probably start making the effort more with him once he starts school), Jack will get involved again with that and they will talk about it a bit (maybe) and it will move on a bit again from there. I'm sure it will be fine, but I don't know if I'm doing it right! 

Hope that made some sort of sense. I am a little confused, so if not, just ignore my waffle! 

Love 
Jayne x


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## stephanie1

Hello
Jayne, I agree with your view and we decided to tell. You are mentioning the book "my story", do you know where we could find one to buy?
You seem to apporach it the way the psychologist advised us when we asked the question: answere their questions but not say too much and always stick to the same and true story.

Thanks

Steph


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## Jayne

Hi Steph 

Ah, that's good about what your psychologist advised 

I got the book 'My Story' from the DCN website  It's been tremendously helpful in first telling Jack - broke the ice so to speak 

http://www.donor-conception-network.org/childrenbks.htm

Love 
Jayne x

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## olivia m

Listen again or podcast this item on today's Woman's Hour. Donor conceived adult Jo Rose talks about her experience of growing up and Julia Feast from BAAF and Alan Pacey from British Fertility Society talk about the importance of being open with children.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/womanshour/

Olivia

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## longbaygirl

Yes, and have a look at the abroadies thread on this site who helped the journalist make this programme and have been completely misrepresented.


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## olivia m

A completely different programme actually.  This is Woman's Hour.  I think you are referring to the item on Law in Action.
Best wishes
Olivia


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## buster24

hi all i am about to start donor ivf, fingers crossed i get the baby we so want    but i cannot decide if i want to tell a baby or not.    not made my mind up yet.
buster xxxx


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## olivia m

Hi Buster
No doubt you have already read through this thread and found plenty to think about there.  My own experience, and that of most of the members of DC Network, is that 'telling' is actually much easier than not telling.  Keeping the secret would be much harder...not with a small child, except of course when everyone asks who they look like...but as they grow older and talk about family likenesses and habits and start doing biology and sex ed at school.  This can lead to outright lying and for most people this just doesn't feel comfortable.  After all, what do most people value in any close relationship...trust, honesty etc.  'Not telling' is really not a good basis for family life at all.
Have a look at the Letter Leaflets from experienced parents to those just starting out on our web site (in free downloads).  They give all the reasons why 'telling' really is a good idea and how to start going about it.  Children find it very easy to accept their beginnings by donor if they are told from an early age.  If they find out later (and they often do) then it can all become much harder and be difficult to re-build trust in a family.  You might also want to send for the book Choosing to be Open about Donor Conception: Experiences of Parents.  It costs £6.50 from our web site www.dcnetwork.org
I know some parents start out believing that they will never tell but change their minds once their child is born and starts to grow up.  They hate the idea of deceiving this small person and feel that they have a right to know.  As one DI dad said, "Before she was born it was all about me and how awful it was that I couldn't have my own genetic child.  Now she's here and I love her so much, it's all about her".
Best of luck
Olivia


/links


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## buster24

maybe i will change my mind, i am using my sisters eggs and we are very very alike so it could not have any closer genes, also to me and my sister and dh we feel my sister is giving me cell not a baby it will be me and my dh who make the baby, so its not really a lie. but then thats just my thoughts. i know everyone is different and i respect these views too.
thankyou buster


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## olivia m

Hi Buster
I can see how tempting it might be not to tell under your particular circumstances, but there are many ways in which known donation can become very complicated if families are not being honest about what has happened.  I think known donation can be a wonderful gift to all concerned, but it can also become a nightmare of confused and messy feelings if secrets are being kept.  Have a look at the section on Known Donation in Telling and Talking 0-7 : free to download from our website www.dcnetwork.org
Best wishes
Olivia



/links


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## beckyb

HI all

have read this thread with interest but have not found anyone in our situation.  MY partner has a very rare chromosome disorder which means he is incapable of producing sperm  our only option is a donor.

His brother has spoken with his wife and has very kindly offered to be a donor for us.  they have just announced their own pregnancy, the baby is due in January 08.

They live very close to us and we have a close relationship with them, see them all the time,  there has even been talk of me looking after their child when SIL returns to work.

we have yet to make our final decision whether to take up his fantastic offer or to go anonymous through a clinic,  if we do go with him , then there is the decision as to whether to do it through a clinic as a known donor or to just do DIY at home.

my biggest quandry though is with regards to telling.  Obvioulsy ours is a more complicated issue with the fact that if we are lucky enough to conceive a child then it is going to have a ongoing regular relationship with it's 'uncle',  how would it feel as an adult to one day be told or by accident find out that their uncle is actually their biological father,  their daddy is always going to be my DP.

In my heart I feel it better to be honest and how Jayne explains about telling her child, making it seem a normal part of their childhood, something that they just grow up accepting is really makes sense to me it's how i feel about it as well.  

Any advice people could offer with regards  using such a close known donor and the child growing up knowing  would be sooooo helpful.

thanks 

becky


----------



## buster24

hi was showing my sister this, but she too feels she is just wanting to be a dotting aunt and feels we can get throught this without having to inform the child as we feel so strongly that the child will be mine and DH. my sister and i have been very very close all our lifes. and we feel this is jsut like if one of us needed blood etc. maybe we will change our minds but at the moment, our feelings are not to tell. but i know others feel different and i also respsect there view too. it is a difficult one and some may feel they need to tell, we dont, sister will just be aunty and me mum, as i said sister feels that she is just giving me afew cells that she would normaly flush away and that it is actually me and dh that will make a baby.
thankyou for your advice though, and we havee read all on the donor network and found it useful.
buster xxxx


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## buster24

hi all we were at the clinic yesterday and we should be starting our donor cycle on my next period, well i get the prostapt then, then sisters is 12 days later and she should get hers then, then its just hoping we get a theatre slot.
[fly]hooray at last[/fly]


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## sarahjj

Just wondered what anyone thought about the possibility of the new regulations re putting 'donor conceived' on birth certificates. 
I want to be open and talk to my daughter about the donor, but would not like it to be actually shown on the birth certificate and so public for anyone to see.


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## stephanie1

Hello

Sarah

I had not heard about the donor conceived one but the IVF one. Imagine I would have to have IFV and DOnor conceived, I thinkit is a ridiculous idea as it is down to the parents to decide what they want to do with the info. We have decided to tell him how he was concieved and I even got a small book called my story (in French) explaining the donor issue. Once a baby is conceived he/she is then following the same path as a natural pregnancy and should not be differentiated from others on his passport. I am outraged by this proposal. What is the governement trying to achieve with this? It will push even more people to go abroad and use private systems. 

Steph


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## Anthony Reid

Here is a thread about this issue...

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=96426.0


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## olivia m

Hi S
If children know about being conceived with the help of a donor from a very young age - and we help parents with story books and the practical and emotional guidance they need to do this - then they have no difficulty in separating out dad from donor.  Although they may be curious about where they come from later in life, they are NOT looking for a dad...so I would encourage your partner to donate.  It's really a very special thing to do.
Can I suggest that your feelings about this are because you were not told about your dad not being your genetic father until you were a young adult.  This can be a really difficult time and many donor conceived adults are very angry about having been deceived for so long.  They ALL advocate 'telling' children from a very early age.
Best wishes
Olivia


----------



## A.T.C.C

As an altruistic donor i cant imagine someone knocking on my door in the future with anything bad to say to me.
I havent given a baby up ive given my eggs as a gift to a couple who gratefully recieved them.
People have asked me the question ' what would you do if the child knocked on your door and said why did you give me up?' i havent give them up so why would they say that
If anyone did knock on my door they would be more than welcome. My donation was no secret so i have nothing to hide. My 2 children both know what i have done too and would probably love someone to come knocking... thats children for you.
I would never EVER see the child as mine ( i dont mean that in a spiteful way at all)..... i would have no right........ my baby making days were over 6 yrs ago and i chose to be sterilised so without any recipient my eggs would never be babies.
It is totally the choice of the recipients if they tell the child that they were donor concieved but i have a strong personal opinion that if a child is told ver early on then it will never be a shock and so therefore will never be a big issue to have to deal with.


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## olivia m

Sades
What a lovely man your DH is.  Lucky woman!
Olivia


----------



## Spaykay

I will let my children know as I will always worry that if anything ever happens and I have to tell them, then our relationship could be hurt. An accident or future illness that needs a transplant or anything similr will mean that they need to know the truth. I also feel that it's nothing to hide and that it's their right...but that's me...

Sorry I'm not very elequent but I'm on drugs!  

Kay xxx


----------



## SUSZY

just found this posted this morning re the question of putting donors on the birth cert have cut and pasted it rather than do the link
olivia has written it

For those who have been concerned about the possibility of donor information routinely being put on children's birth certificates, here is good news.

On 8th October the Government issued a statement in response to recommendations made by the Joint Parliamentary Scrutiny Committee regarding the changes to the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act. The major headline is that the HFEA will now not be merged with the Human Tissue Authority to form a body to be known as RATE. This is generally good news, allowing the HFEA to remain solely focused on issues to do with assisted conception and research concerning the use of human eggs and sperm.

On the question of putting donor information on birth certificates, the Government was not convinced by the arguments put by the Committee. The following is a quote from their response -

"The Government's position to date is that it is preferable that parents are educated about the benefits of telling children that they were donor-conceived rather than forcing the issue through the annotation of birth certificates.
However, this is a sensitive area and the Government recognises the Committee's concern, as well as the importance of allowing donor-conceived people access to information about their genetic background. We believe that the issues need to be considered carefully, including constructive dialogue with stakeholders, and we will keep the matter under review." See page 23 of the statement for both the recommendation and full response.

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/dh_079127
Best wishes
Olivia


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## olivia m

Here is the link to the story of a donor conceived adult who was 'told'of her origins by an aunt at age 54. A real cautionary tale for anyone thinking of not 'telling'.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk:80/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=511388&in_page_id=1879

Olivia

/links


----------



## olivia m

Just to let everyone know that DC Network has been awarded funds from the Department of Health to run Telling and Talking workshops around the country during 2008/09.  We are currently devising structure and content and will then be ready to advertise dates and venues.  If you think you might be interested just let me know via FF or DCN web site and we will keep you informed.
Olivia


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## LiziBee

Thanks Olivia - what a sad story. I do object to the way the Daily Mail lists DC as 'unsavoury' though!
Lizi.x


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## olivia m

I agree Lizi...a very sad story and a very inappropriate term to use, but this is the Mail and after telling the story 'straight' as far as I can tell, they just had to have their tabloid moment.
Olivia


----------



## sassib

Hi
I am new to FF. I have a DE little girl, thanks to FET in 06. I am a member of the donor conception network and I will be telling my little girl. 

We have always agreed that we would tell. 

But what really made it real for me is at a DCN picnic last summer, I was astounded at the very grown up way that some of the children who know dealt with it. It was so matter of fact. One of the children, a 12yr old girl, just bounded up to me and said was it my ovaries or your husband's sperm that were broken! - I nearly fainted! It was the last thing i expected - but she was perfectly natural with it all and went on to tell me that her mummy's ovaries werent functioning and someone else had donated some eggs.  She told me that she was fine about it, her mummy was her mummy and that was that. 

We started to tell our little girl her story from the moment she was born. And, yes, there are days when i wish we didnt have to do that. But she is my daughter, no matter whose egg helped to make her, she grew in my womb, i nurtured her and breastfed her etc etc. 

In my view, honesty is very much the best policy. All my family and friends know about our DIVF. I would hate it to come out as a surprise one day, I cant imagine how devastating that could be and I feel really sorry for those who have posted having experienced this. 

I know this is such an emotive and personal choice. But this is our choice, and I think we have made the right one for us.

good luck everyone

Sassib xxx


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## marie10

Well we just dont know what to do for best, we have very old fasioned parent's they dont even know that we are are having donated eggs through the fear of them not understanding let alone telling a child, if we we get lucky   
It's a very hard decision and its one im not to sure we can make.......

I know that people have a lot of different opinions on telling the child but i think that it all comes down to each indivdual situation, At this moment in time the subject is taboo only myself and my DH knows about our ED tx.

It can sometimes make it hard that we cant tell people the truth!   

Maybe if the tx works and we are blessed then i might feel differently who knows.

Take Care 
Lovely Ladies 
Marie x x x


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## ClaryRose

I think you are right - its not an easy thing to do.  I have to say, personally, I do not feel the idea of a child coming up to me at a social gathering blurting out information about my  (or DH's) reproductive system is exactly on!  There needs to be some decorum here - this is OTT as far as I am concerned swinging the pendulum of 'everyone knows' a little too far.  During counselling for DE, we were advised to tell the school as well - I think this is ludicrous.  A child does not want to feel different and through telling all and sundry - the child is going to be made to feel even less 'normal'.  

On saying that I am of the mind it is better to come from the parents than anyone/where else.  But then I am still not in the process of actually doing this yet as I cannot decide if it is the right thing to do - as I struggle ethically with it.  That's my issue though and not a judgement on anyone else.  I may very well take the opportunity to create a family this way, as it is our only option.  Who knows.  It's such a difficult decision for anyone to make.  I have to say I think the Mail showed it's trashy insensitive self in the article.  It takes no account of the feelings of the mother and father at all and it must have been a huge decision to take back in those days.  Anyway...  DE - not an easy option.

CR


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## crazybabe

Hi Marie10

I totally understand what you mean love, my DH and I have been in the same position only we had to use DS as its male problems, the only people that know is my parents and my DH parents, we have had several DIUI treatments, one I got a low positive but sadly ended before a pregnancy had been confirmed by scan, and had 1 attempt at IVF/ICSI back in oct/nov 2007 which sadly failed, all have been on the NHS.  It was so difficult to cope with only few people knowing and at times my DH and I would sit down and cry and say to each other "Why Us" but then you suddenly learn that a lot of people are going through the same thing.  To cut a long story short after all the emotional upset and stress and living our lives around the treatment we have decided that Adoption is our way forward, i did think about egg sharing but I don't want to sound selfish but I couldn't cope with thinking I may have a son or daughter out there who I will not know especially if our treatment didn't work, and I couldn't go on thinking for the next 18 years that a child conceive by my eggs will want to contact me, I would be beside myself and thats so unfair to the child and myself and DH, I went to a follow up appointment today and they said I would be unsuitable to egg share anyway as I only had 4 eggs out of 6 fertilize in my last IVF/ICSI - So that was fate and I felt that my questions had been answered.  We have been through  a lot of stress, and one big emotional rollercoaster and I feel that I have made the right decision to adopt I want us to have a family.

Hope everything works out for you, and I don't care what anyone says, luck and fate plays a big part.

Lots of love

crazybabe


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## ClaryRose

All the very best of luck, Crazebabe - I am a great believer in fate too.  There is plenty of support and information on this site about adoption and lots of children needing a different start/way in life.  What better gift can any of us offer than a safe and loving home for a child(ren) already here.  Good luck.
CR


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## Klosie Girl

Hi girls,
Hope you don't mind me adding to this post but we also are now the proud parents of a beautiful boy conceived using donor eggs & right from the beginning we have made no secret about how our little Callum was able to be born.
Having to use donor eggs came as no shock whatsoever to us as I had to have my ovaries removed at 19 due to them not having formed correctly, anyway friends / family & even work colleagues know about our situation & I believe it can (in most cases) only be a good thing as I cannot believe the amount of women I have spoken to that were unaware of the entire egg donating scenario & who have now said that's really interesting & asked me to explain what was involved.
Our donor was not known to us but we did meet her at our 6 week scan to show her the scan photos & we are in touch all the time now & we certainly will be having Callum know that some wonderful woman helped mummy because her ovaries were broken & I am his mummy 100% cause I nurtured him from when he was a tiny embryo carried him for 8 months, fell madly in love with him from when I first heard his heartbeat, breastfed him , no one could love & care for him more than I do & that's what makes a mummy    

Love Lisa  
xxxxxxx


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## olivia m

ClaryRose
I posted the following in another thread only yesterday.  Given your comments about telling the school, I thought you might find it interesting.

Just wanted to add a comment about telling schools.  In DCN we encourage parents to tell the school about DC so that if children mention it they can be believed and supported...but of course parents make their own decisions according to their own circumstances.  Our experience over the years has shown that it is the children of single parents and lesbians who have the most difficult time....not because of DC but because they need to be able to explain the absence of a 'dad' from their parenting circle.  Children who have different sex parents at home mostly don't talk about DC at school until they are of an age to understand what they are doing and deal with the consequences.  Several DC children have found that because their friends don't understand the situation very well they aren't interested in talking about it and change the subject.  An attempt was once made at school to bully our daughter but because she has always enjoyed the difference of being donor conceived, the child concerned was not able to press any of her buttons.  Confidence and pride can make all the difference to how a child handles these issues.
Olivia


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## Anthony Reid

Although I'm not a donor child - for 18 years I did not know who my father was and was too afraid to my mum because I didn't want to upset her in case I was the result of a one night stand and that she really just did not know.

Anyway, whilst in Junior school I had to stand up and tell the class what my father did for a living... of course my answer was that I didn't have a dad - the teacher(Mr King) responded with of course you do - even if he doesn't live with you - you still have a dad - what does he do. I responded with I don't know - I don't have a dad... The teacher then belted me across the face and then dragged me out of the class on tip toes by twisting my ear claiming I was insolent... I was put in detention for 2 weeks - no lunchtime/playtime breaks allowed.

That was a lot for a 9 year old to handle.

I was to scared to tell my mum about it.

I guess society has changed a lot since then and perhaps there is now some acceptance that single parent families exist... however to a certain extent I do understand how hard it can be for a single parent child who has no knowledge of his father.

In the end, I did meet my father when I was around 20 - however we are no longer in contact..

A couple of years ago whilst drunk in a bar in Paris - I confronted my mum and told her of  all those years that I did not want to upset her by asking about my origins. I cannot describe her feelings - because I am not her - but she was deeply upset.

I'm not sure if I am helping anyone with this rabble.. but I thought I'd share it.


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## LiziBee

aw Tony  so horrid to think of how kids can be put in such a difficult position. But it does make me think that telling the school is the right thing. Then the teacher might be more considerate.
Lizi.x


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## ClaryRose

Tony

Your experiences sound awful and I am so sorry to hear the 'secret' or lack of information caused you so much pain, emotionally and physically.  It is something I am sure that stays with you for life.  I hope you have resolved this with your mum.  It is such a difficult subject for people to talk about and back then, people were under the impression and given the advice that 'no one will know'.  We were a different society compared with today where baring all seems to be the trend, if not the best policy. 

Olivia

I take on board your comments about the school being informed in the case of single parent and same sex couples but in the case of heterosexual couples, is there honestly a need?  I can understand a school needing to know a child is adopted but donor conception is different as the child doesn't have another 'mummy or daddy' unless of course, that is the way they are brought up to think of the 'absent parent'.  Should the child grow up though thinking about  the third party as an 'absent parent'?  

Another thing I wonder, is it attitude different for the person whose eggs/sperm are inadequate to conceive compared to the other person in the relationship who is perfectly capable of producing a child? ie if your daughter is born from the sperm/genetic material of another man - does your partner/husband feel differently about these issues - like telling everyone including school etc.    This is not a direct question, as I do not know personal circumstances, but it would be interesting to know if the 'natural' side of the conception feels differently to the substituted?  There will be personal difference due to the individuals but just an interesting thought.  I don't think it is a 'deep, dark secret' or should be - but surely some privacy is good. What gives others the right to know so much about you?  

I am rambling but its a fascinating subject of which time will tell how it all pans out with technology and DNA testing progressing at the rate it is in modern society.

CR


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## olivia m

Tony
What an appalling experience to have as a child.  As CR says, I do hope you have resolved this with your mum.
DCN parents mostly find that teachers are pleased to know about DC but pretty underwhelmed by the information.  The modern family takes so many forms these days that DC children, particularly in couple families, are not really thought to be unusual and certainly not perceived of as a 'problem'.
Mostly, teachers these days are very sensitive to different family forms and would not dream of putting a child in the position you were put in. 

Clary Rose
The reason for 'telling' teachers of children in het couple families is as I said before...so that the child is believed and can be supported if they choose to talk about DC in school.  Our own daughter shared the info with her class when she was nine.  Her teacher knew all about it, took it in his stride and helped her with the information.  The class then moved on.  The only come back was a child who approached our daughter afterwards and said that she wouldn't have liked to be made in that way because you might catch germs from it!  I think our daughter only told us about the incident as an example of how stupid that girl could be!  As I said, she is proud of her beginnings so others can't hurt her about it.
In response to your other question, my husband has never worried about others knowing about DC.  He has never been ashamed of his infertility - although sad that his genetic line is not continuing - and is happy for anyone to know about how our family came into being.  He is a very proud dad.
Of course other non-genetic parents will have a range of feelings about this.  

In DCN we struggle all the time with balancing privacy and secrecy.  Privacy is of course what we all deserve and everyone draws the boundary in different places.  Secrecy seems to come from a darker place and can imply a sense of stigma and shame. This is not usually healthy for family relationships.  Finding a personal line where these two are satisfactorily balanced for the well-being of ourselves and our children is the challenge for all DC families.
Best
Olivia


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## olivia m

Just realised I didn't respond to your query about a child being brought up to feel that their donor is an 'absent parent'.  My answer to this would be, absolutely not.  Donors do have an undoubted genetic link and deserve to be referred to with gratitude and respect but as far as I am concerned (and DCN policy) they are not parents.  Some of the more radical DC adults who were not 'told' until they were older, do refer to their donor as a parent, but I have yet to meet a child, adult or young person who was told early, who believes this to be true or uses this word.
Olivia


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## LiziBee

As a former teacher of science and of 'citizenship' (which is what they now call personal, social and sex education) I'd just like to make a couple of points. 
Firstly I think I would have felt pleased that a parent wanted to share this information with me, secondly I think I would have responded with the (underwhelming), "lots of families have so many different origins I dont think it's something to worry about for lessons". But it would have equiped me better to deal with it had it ever come up in class, and let me tell you that in science and citizenship we talk about sex (and genetics) far more often than your kids will ever let on to you!! 
TBH it sends shivers down my spine to think that I may have inadvertantly offended any child by what we did in the classroom, if I had been informed I would have thought much harder about how we covered the topic and if news like DC had come out from a student I would have been much better equiped to deal with it.
So my feeling is that we will tell DD's form tutor, science teacher and citizenship teacher and remind them every year. It doesn't put them under any pressure and helps them to deal with any situation should it arise.
Just my personal perspective.
Lizi.xxx


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## stephanie1

hello

I have been reading this subject with lots of attention. 

Tony, what a story and how insensitive teachers used to be!! I hope that the new generation is more adequate and pragmatique.

As for the school teachers I guess it depends on each child. For us, to be honest I have a book for James to read to him when he is old enough and I have already told him a few times how lucky we were to have him thanks to this lovely man in Belgium who donated sperm. 

I really like the idea of saying that dady's sperm was broken!!!

I also realise that James may end up telling the world about it but at least it will depend on him. Our very close friends and family know so it has been good to be able to talk about it. The funny side is that even my mum feels that James looks like DH. HAHAHAHA

Anyway, do you think that telling a childminder should be considered! I realised that in the end it will be our choice and decision but I was wondering after reading about school issues which I had not thought about,

Thanks

Steph


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## olivia m

Hi Steph and others
I think the guideline to use when sharing DC info with others is, "Will this be of help and support to my child?".  This probably means being open with anyone who has close, consistent contact with a child over time...and this is likely to include a childminder, particularly if she is caring for a child of over four or five who could mention something about "the kind man/lady who gave an egg/sperm to help make me".  That said, very few children of this age do talk about it as they don't understand it themselves and therefore have no interest in talking about it.  This will change of course as children get older.
Olivia


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## aemiliastar

I have been reading this thread with great interest and am sorry for all the negative experiences that people have gone through.  I think experiences can shape who we are both good and bad.

We are currently in the process of DE and I dont think we will tell the child (if we are lucky to get that far).  Its such a personal choice and still not sure if that is my final decision but I am definitely leaning that way.  I have told our parents but that is it.. and I wonder if it really does help or hinder.. I have to say that one of the reasons we chose to go abroad is that you have no contact with the donor and the child cant find out... 

There is no right and wrong choice in this.. its how you are as a family etc.. and I think we all have to make the decision that we are comfortable with..


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## stephanie1

Hello

Thanks Olivia I will bear this in mind and will see how it goes when time comes. I have also downloaded some of the DCN files but I have not been ready yet to read it all. 

Aemalia, I hope that you will have a successful treatment. Good luck. 


I realise that we are all different and it is a very personal decision to tell your child or not. And please do not feel pressured by anyone including me!  
My own reasons are because I am a very open person in the first place and I always thought that if there was a need for blood and parents were asked later in life it may create problems and I also keep all my paperwork and imagine if a yound adolescent was to find these later!! ( I am sure that can be organised and all papers can be destroyed) I also do not believe that I could myself keep such a big piece of information from James, but that is me. 

Best Regards

Steph


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## olivia m

Hi Steph
Maybe if you do have a child you will feel the same as one of the dads at our meetings,

"Before our daughter was born it was all about me and how unfair it was that I couldn't have my own genetic child.  Now she is here I see that it's all about her and because I love her so much I want to be straight with her about how she began"

Olivia


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## stephanie1

Hi Olovia

thanks for the quote,my DH and I agreed on this subject and we have been very lucky to have James thanks to DS. I like the extract you copied and I can see how much DH loves James and it is almost like there was no Donor. People even say that James looks like him.. Amazing!!! 
I have a baby book style in French that tells the story of the donor process and it is really sweet. Brings tears to my eyes but it will help for telling. 

Steph


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## olivia m

Hi
My last message was really for Aemiliastar (my mistake), but glad you liked the quote anyway Steph.  I know people think I am mad sometimes when I say that 'telling' as actually the easy option.  Keeping secrets, lying to your child is really, really hard.  Why jeopardise family relationships this way when openness means that there is only honesty between us and our child.  It's what we all want from those closest to us isn't it?
Olivia


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## SUSZY

As ever in all this situations I think we have to try and do our best for the baby /potential baby/babies if we are really lucky!
Sometimes a lot of this dicussion is speculative as we are still wishing for the child/children we will hopefully have by donor conception one day.
I know for my family (dh and ds ) we were open from the outset (he was too young to really remember the first two babies in mummys tummy that did not devleop) but this last time he knew all about the lovely lady Angela (who makes lovely jewellery ) that gave  mummy and daddy her egg - mixed with daddys sperm (and he say pictures) and when after seeing the hb at 7 weeks we did not see one at the last scan he went to school sayin the baby had stopped growing at a stage when most other children would not have been told their mum was expecting but here I was with my child not only telling people mummy had had a baby put in her tummy (a day after et but like somone else on this thread or anothers I would be a bit concerned if young children came runing up asking questions probably not normally age relatd  we decided from being very open in the past we would be a bit selective this time (being very lucky to have that choice which took a lot for both dh and me to come to terms with) 
it was even harder for me because I had lots of Anetantal groups who had no fertility probs and at first i was very open and honest with my problems after my second m/c and a few years or trying surrounding with very fertile people you get a bit peed off.
Anyway its very difficult when you go into DE whether its going to work and how much and when you say to the exiting one you have. as I say we have always been very open and honest with our ds and he knows more than most but we also decided we could not telll most so when he knows mummy has had a baby put in her tummy even when its an embryo how can you tell him any different, then when we all see a heartbeat its so exciting and we dont tell him to say any diff and then when we dont see a heart beat and he then tells the class the baby has stopped growing and you have the teaching assistant asking the teacher questions you have to ask yourself how far you take the honesty.  Having been there its so hard because do you tell your existing childs potential siblings school hopefully there will be a donor concieved child esp when you are not even ready to tell some of the other people that you have know a longer time 
anyway sure as ever i am confusing the course but its never staightforward on this path


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## aemiliastar

Olivia

Maybe if I do have a child I will feel different but maybe I wont and if I dont tell them I dont think its the worse thing you can do. As I said its a personal choice and not one that I would feel guilty about.  Maybe telling them isnt always the right thing to do.. there are always two sides to every argument..

A


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## olivia m

A
All I can say is, ask ANY donor conceived adult - told early, told late, angry and distressed or cool and comfortable, and they will ALL say that it is much better to learn early and that not telling them about their origins means not respecting them as individuals with lives and needs of their own.  A decision not to tell by parents, always deprives the child of information about their genetic background, health record and part of their identity.  I believe in proper parental authority but not 'telling' is an unreasonable exercise of parental power that I don't think can ever be right.  This is not just a matter of personal choice.
Olivia


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## Bluebelle Star

I have found this thread really interesting and thought provoking. My own life was very similar to Aislin's loosing a parent as a very young child, and I have the opposite view to Aislin. I feel strongly that part of what made me able to cope with it was knowing what happened, I couldn't imagine their having been secrets and how I would feel now. 

I know what helps me, when I think about this, is imagining what my child would feel like if they found out at 10, 15, 20, 30 that I lied to them and for that I would never forgive myself. I think this is because while I was studying genetics, there was a girl in our class who discovered her mother could not have been her biological mother. She ran out of the room and didn't come back to Uni for weeks, it was devastating to her. They went about 22 years without the secret coming out but it came out in the end and ruined their relationhip. Last I knew of her, she had no contact, horrifically sad. The only other person I know of personally who is adult, knew from the time she was 2 or 3, her parents created a lovely child friendly story for her, she is now 21, 100% accepting of it, is happy, settled, doesn't want contact with her biological parents in any way, but has no anger or resentment. 

I think at the root of it none of us want our children or future children to hurt. We want them to feel loved, normal, happy and wanted. While I don't think it would be fair for everyone to know your child's story (playground talk etc) it is their story, it is what makes them them, if that makes sense. Children deal with incredible differences and if put in the right way, with the right support, they do cope with what they face. I think the more children who know of their history, the more accepting it will be for them all. 

Thanks for such a great topic, it's really made me reflect a lot on my own future actions.


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## Chelley

I would like to start by thanking you all for your honesty and comments, I read this thread with interest and learn from your experiences, so thanks.

We have decided that hopefully if we get that far, (fingers crossed, all well so far), we will definitely tell the child, as I wouldn't want them to find out later and feel that we had lied to them.

But the indecision for us comes with who else to tell, as I don't think DPs parents will be too bad with the idea as the child will still be their genetic grandchild, although they are probably the most tactless people I have met so we will have to be careful with what they say to the child.  But my mum and her husband will defnitely not agree with our choice and so the choice is whether to tell them up front and let them decide if they want to be part of the childs life or not before the child is even born.  Or risk that at some point the child may mention something to them and they will find out that way. 

Same goes for friends, I don't really want to tell lots of people, because I don't think it's our story to tell, it's the childs right and choice to tell people if they want to, but as they are growing up, they may inadvertantly tell people along the way.  How have you handled this?

Chelley
x x


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## marie10

Hi Chelley,I have the same problem as you our parent's!!!!i couldn't think of a more perfect word than tactless Each situation is completly different and knowbody can tell you what to it is your choice!!!!!!!


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## marie10

Hi Chelley,  Sorry the flipping cat stood on my lap top  lol    lol he posted it before i had time to finish my reply . As I was saying we just cant make a decision at the moment it's difficult to know what to do for the best!!! But it look's like we are leaning towards telling our family's but i think we will wait until we get our donor. We will also be telling the chlid if we are lucky enough, and to be honest if anybody says they don't agree then as far as im concerned then thats there problem.   I hope you can make a decision that is right for you. Take care hun  Good Luck Ladies   Marie x xx


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## marie10

When i said about People not agreeing i did mean in our familys,and friend's
Sorry if that came out wrong im having a bad day!

      Someone shoot me lol      

Marie x x x


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## aemiliastar

marie10 - I loved your post and it really helped (not the bit about the cat sitting on your laptop although that made me laugh).  As I said I am in two minds about telling the child and my thoughts lean a different way each day.. however I dont want to tell all and sundry.  not even friends (well close ones).. its such a personal thing and its not something a lot of people really know about or its in their periphery vision but not something they have had to deal with in their day to day lives.  I was one of those people until I found out I couldnt conceive..  I am sure things change once you have a child but the thoughts of tell schools, neighbours, the milkman - the John Lewis delivery driver just seems a bit too much sharing of information to me.  Its a hard concept to get our heads around and I am learning each day about my feelings and thoughts on the subject... 

Whatever decisions people make - I hope all their treatments are successful!!

A


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## marie10

Hi     A   Im glad i made you laugh today   , ive had such a strange    day and im happy that my post helped you.Im here if you need a chat anytime , pm me if you want, Marie x x x


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## olivia m

Hi Everyone
All the issues about how far to share information and whether it helps the child if SOME others know first, are discussed in the Telling and Talking booklets, free to download from www.dcnetwork.org

Have a look and see what you think.
Olivia


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## emnjo

I think this is a tricky one... However, thought I would share my story, it may be of some relevance to some of you!!

My cousins, twin boys - who are both now 18yrs old, were concieved by a sperm donor, because my aunts husband's sperm had a very low count. Anyway, all my family, and the boys have only recently found out that there father is not thier biological dad. The boys have taken it all with a huge pinch of salt, they are very close to thier dad, and have no desire to learn anything at all about thier donor. To be honnest, I don't think thet have 'gained' anything at all from even knowing.

We are also going to be using a sperm donor - however, as a lesbian couple; our baby will obviously know that they were not concieved my my partner and I alone!! We will be very open with our child/ren about how they were concieved.


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## Chelley

Hi Marie, those posts really made me laugh too.    we are going to play the situation by ear and see how we feel later.  We are still worried about the baby and if we will get that far at the moment, so one crisis at a time I think for now.  You have mycomplete sympathy on the non tactful parents syndrome.  What's so strange is that if anything is said to them, they seem to be so hyper sensitive.    Well if we were all the same, it would be boring wouldn't it?  Less stressful but boring.  

I was going to post something else, but now it's completely gone out of my head.  Is that pregnancy brain kicking in already?  God it's going to be a long 5 months.  

Chelley
x x


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## aemiliastar

Chelley

Congrats on the BFP!!!

You are absolutely right.. you and the baby are far more important than anything else.  Enjoy every single aspect of it regardless of what anyone else thinks.. hurtful as it may be to anyone else.. your happiness and that of your child is the most precious thing..

Good luck

A x


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## ClaryRose

I have just been reading something which struck a chord with a lot of what's written here.  It is a book written for adopted children called 'Journey of the Adopted Self' .. I know adoption is very different to donation but there are similarities particularly in telling a child and discusses a paper by Karpel 'Family Secrets' from 1980, suggesting there are three major types of 'Family secrets' : Individual - one person keeps from the others; Internal - a few family members keep from another member and Shared - when all family members band together to keep outsiders from knowing what is happening inside.  So Internal being the comparison for donation and being trapped in this 'family secret' cuts off real communication between parents and child..

I have just recently come to the decision I cannot justify having a child through donation as I cannot reconcile this ethically.  It is something I should have to live with and cannot reconcile the want to have a child to going to any lengths to achieve this.  Todays science makes many things possible but just because we can - should we? I have left it too late to have our own child and it is something I must live with.  I am sure it works very well for many people but we all have our own limits and sometimes on the infertility route, we move the goal posts over and over again in pursuit of our 'wants'.    It is important to grieve for the biological child we cannot have and donation is not a replacement, as the child will not have the glint or spark in their eyes of our ancestors or ourselves in their smile or look like our relatives in old photos.  It is easy to think it is just another 'cell' without thinking of the consequences of how the child would feel to know they have that  resemblance in someone elses family photographs.  This is not to be sentimental but it's reality.  The worst thing is to create a false reality for a child.  This can backfire in many ways - not least for a child to be unsure of who he/she is particularly if there are hints and speculation and some family members know and some don't.  It takes one slip/comment to change a child's reality totally and the trust built between parent and child, to be questionned.    It is not just in case that one should because it may be 'leaked' but to have an honest relationship.  

I cannot understand how anyone would keep such fundamental information 'secret' by not telling a child about themselves or trying to parent with such 'secrets' between parent and child.  But we are all different.  Best of luck to everyone wherever their journey leads them on the route to fulfilment.


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## Essex Girl

Hello there

As you will see from the signature below, I have recently had a baby with my sister's egg.  I also have a relative who had children by egg donation (anonymous donor) 10 years ago.

Claryrose - I am interested to read what you say about the ethical issues.  For us, anonymity was not an issue because the donation was within the family, and all our siblings and parents knew what we were proposing to do.  Most of them were fine about it, but one or two expressed concerns about how things would turn out if the baby looked very like my sister.  My sister and I were always agreed that the child should know about her origins, and she ended up telling her own 5 year old daughter what was going on during the treatment cycle.  We hadn't intended to tell her quite so soon, but my sister found it difficult to invent convincing explanations for why I kept visiting and she had to go to this clinic place, and then she had to tell me what she was going to say to her daughter so that our stories would stack up.  We both felt uncomfortable doing this, and my niece was becoming worried about what was going on, so in the end she told her daughter that she was giving her aunty an egg so that she could have a baby, and had to go to the clinic to do this.  My niece accepted the explanation and was OK about it after that.  If we had that much difficulty covering up the treatment, I don't know how we would have got on concealing the secret long-term if we had chosen not to tell her.

There is an interesting philosophical debate here about parenthood and identity.  Provided that you are open with the child and people around him/her about the donation issue, I don't feel that you are creating a 'false reality' for them.  The parents who bring the child up, whether genetic or not, are very much a reality for him/her - think of children who have bonded well with step-parents, for example.  The lack of genetic relationship can create issues for both child and parent, and I believe it is important for the child to be able to trace their donor if they wish, but if the child feels secure with its parents, and there is openness about the donor conception, those issues should not break the parent/child relationship.  

In some ways, this gets easier when the child arrives, because you then have a real baby and not just a concept to deal with.  Our experience is that once my DD arrived, people were just delighted that we had finally made it to becoming parents, and even those who had reservations about the donor conception do not seem to be bothered about it now, and even my donor sister said she had forgotten the egg came from her.  Possibly that is partly because our DD has health problems (Downs Syndrome and heart defect), so the donor issue was upstaged by other more immediate concerns.  

To be honest, I do feel slightly upset when the odd comment reminds me that my DD is genetically my sister's rather than mine, or when I see my sister's features in her, and I guess that would be harder if the donor was unrelated.  I believe my relative with donor children had some difficulty with that when hers were born, but 10 years on, they are as close as anything, and people who do not know have even commented on how alike they are!  The children take on the parents' mannerisms and outlooks.

I hope this is of some help to those of you still considering  DE and if you have any further questions, please feel free to ask

All the best  Essex Girl x


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## LiziBee

Essex girl - congratulations on the birth of Lizzie, she looks beautiful! 

ClaryRose - I find the terms you use very interesting, they clearly reflect how you feel about donor conception and illustrate to me why this is the right choice for us. 
We had donor sperm and I suppose this is a little different to donor eggs but I don't see this as going to 'any lengths' or even 'pushing the boundaries of science' (admittedly my words and not yours). Using sperm from another man surely has to be the oldest form of fertility 'treatment'. I see donor eggs as a simple extension of that and no more an issue of scientific frontiers than IVF (less so even than ICSI). 
Further more I don't feel that the nature of DD's conception is a secret. Sure it is private, we choose who we share then information with but it is not something we hide, we are honest about it. So I guess a 'slip-up' will never be a worry for us.
Finally I feel that the 'twinkle in the eye' is something that is sentimental. When I look into my nieces and nephews' eyes I don't see our brothers and sisters, I see them as individuals and the same is true of DD. Perhaps this comes down to the 'way we are', I'm a scientist and it shapes the way I feel I admit it, but it doesn't make the way I feel (or the way you feel) wrong. 
As you say, good luck on your journey towards fulfilment.

Lizi.x


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## Spaykay

Everyone has a right to their opinion on this thread so I would just like to add mine to Claryrose's. I respect your decision to not go ahead with the donor route as it a route I felt I never would take...but have done in the end. I do not feel that I am "replacing" a biological child of mine as this is irreplaceable...however, I do not feel that this is a wrong or bad thing. No child can ever be "replaced" as they are each unique in their own way. Our decision to try donor eggs before adoption came from the interests of the child. We feel that a child really benefits from the initial bonding it gains from being inside it's mother's womb and that using donor eggs would provide our child with an easier start to life. However, this having failed we will move to adoption. This child with neither "replace" the biological child I could not have nor the birth child I could not have, they will be my child. Bonding at first may take a while and I'll never be able to replace the time that I did not spend with my child from their conception/birth. I feel that "science" is changing our options but perhaps the picture is much bigger than just science. But I know, that whoever my child may be, they will be "replacing" nothing, they will simply be the love of my life...and I will choose to let them know how they came to be my child. 

Kay xxx


----------



## ClaryRose

Hello Essex Girl

Congratulations on the birth of Lizzie you must be absolutely elated!

Hello Lizi

The main purpose of my post was re 'not telling' a child and the implications.  I think it's amazing that dreams can come true through these processes but I was responding to all the comments I see on the website about intentions 'not to tell' the child.  I just agree with the idea that it is important to tell the child (but not shout it from the rooftops! in moderation on a who needs to know basis!) With anonymous donation, the child, even if they know they are from donated eggs, will never have the opportunity to find their 'genetic' line so I agree with Essex Girl that it is important the donor is known. But.. they may never want to find out..... particulary if they have been brought up in honesty with  loving parents.  This is not the case if going abroad now which seems really popular and will have it's own implications, I suppose.    

I have spent a lot of time thinking this option through and looking at options, donation doesnt work for us but it works for thousands (about 4, I think) of couples in the UK every year.  We all have different boundaries - different is not wrong - it's just different.  The point I was trying to make was that children need to know where they come from and it seems the last three or four posts all agree on this which is what this thread is all about!

Hello Spaykay

I totally understand the choice between egg donation and adoption and if I had been faced with that choice, I think I would have probably done exactly as you did.  I am so sorry it did not work for you, it seems like it's almost guaranteed with all the posts on the site.  Maybe adoption is the right option for you - maybe your children are out there waiting for you - I really hope it all goes well.  It's a long process but worth it to offer a child a fantastic new start where they will be loved and cared for.  Wishing you the very, very best of luck.  

CR


----------



## christina07

hi all, sorry for butting in but i didnt think there was such a thing as a anomynus donor because the law changed, and all women donating eggs have to fill in a form for the hfea to store so that any children resulting from the donor could contact them later in life, if they felt the need to.
                                                                      christina


----------



## daisyg

Christina,

This law applies in the UK and a very few other countries.  Most European countries only allow anonymous sperm and egg donation so that any children conceived in this way do not have access to any information about their donors, unlike the UK.

Daisy
x


----------



## christina07

thanks for putting me straight on that one daisy, cant comment because im still trying to decide if i think its a good thing or a bad thing, 
christina


----------



## Spaykay

CR thank you  

Kay xxx


----------



## stephanie1

Christina 

you are right unfortunately due to the new law (which I do not disagree with) the sper donors have been scared away to the point that in September 06 there were 4 donors only in the clinic Iused to go to which recruits actively and that is not enough so we have to go abroad if we want to have a chance for treatment

Steph


----------



## christina07

steph
        sorry to hear that you had to go abroad for your treatment, but i see you have your little man now so that probably dosent matter anymore, its not that i disagree with having to give your details in now, ive donated my eggs twice, first resulted in a baby and waiting for the outcome of the other.i just dont know how i would feel if a child was to contact me further down the line, i just hope they are born into a lovely family and have a contented fulfilling life, not saying that id turn them away if they needed a kidney or something. i know what you mean i can imagine it would put a lot of people off which is unfortunate for the people waiting for egg/sperm donors.
                                                              take care christina


----------



## stephanie1

Hello

Christina

I had not looked at your profile and to be honest I should have mentioned first that anyone donating is doing a grand gesture and we are so grateful for donors to give us receivers the opportunity to have a family this is HUGE and THANK YOU to all donors! 


Steph


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## christina07

steph thats very nice of you, i wouldent have done it any differently . i think every woman should have a chance to know what it feels like to be a mother, its the most wonderful feeling in the world (as you know). its nice to know that egg donors are appreciated though, i might consider doing it again in the future even though im not planning any more tx myself .
                                                                wishing you all the best for the future, christina


----------



## aemiliastar

Christina

Just wanted to say its is truly incredible what you have done and the most amazing gift you could ever give someone.  Anyone going through the process of receiving donor eggs always has the donor in their mind and to hear someone who has been on the other end talking about it is fantastic - donors are more than appreciated I can assure you they are hope.

Thank you on behalf of all donor recipients!

A


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## Loui123

I agree! My only way of giving life to a child is through donor eggs. I will always be in debt to anyone who gives me her eggs. It takes a wonderful amazing lady to share her eggs with someone.

Loui - a future mummy xxx


----------



## christina07

hi to all you lovely ladies who replied to my message, it brought tears to my eyes reading them this morning. last year when i donated i sent my recipient a card wishing her the best of luck(anomynusly, cant spell it) and never recieved one back not that i expected to but it would have been nice just to wish me luck too, but i dont know how she felt or what she was going through. but reading all your messages i know she must have been delighted, maybe she didnt want to acknowledge that she,d had donor eggs which i dont blame her for. its tough on both sides.
loui- dont feel like you would be in debt to your donor, its a natural thing to do from one woman to another, i wouldent want my recipient to feel like this. any child that is born to a recipient is there child, after all they have nurtured them and grew them in there womb for 9 months.
                                        good luck to you all and take care, christina


----------



## Loui123

Christina - thanks for your message . How are you getting on in the 2ww?

Loui xxx


----------



## christina07

loui, its driving me bananas been testing since 5 days past et(too early i know) its been showing a very very faint line, it seems a littled bit darker today, its been 13 days since hcg shot so im not sure if its this or not, its my own fault for testing early. im just so impatient, im beginning to think the hcg should be out of my system now, i only had one syringe full not sure how much is in them, do you know how long it takes to come out?
                                                          christina x


----------



## Loui123

Christina,

From experience of my own IVF's I know that the hormones from the trigger injection half evey day. For example, I took 10,000 units of the trigger, so on the 2nd day after the shot I would expect to have 5,000 units left in me, then 2,5000 etc etc. So, by my reckoning, they should have left you by now. However, a word of caution, each person's body absorbs/gets rid of chemicals at different rates. What I have just quoted you is an average. Your body may absorb the hormones quicker (yay!) than others, and hence, you should be getting a darker line (as you have indeed found!) if you are pregnant. I would stay optimistically cautious, and bare in mind that you have been given an official test date too. I'd stick to that one if I were you. (But, knowing me, I would continue to test, just for the excitement of seeing the line get darker!). 
Good luck - and stay in touch!

Loui xxx


----------



## aemiliastar

Christina  - I have to say that I did pick to go abroad as you dont have any contact with the donor (shorter waiting lists etc) - however I do think about them every day I am waiting - your mind is whirling about it as for me its not an easy choice to make - I just wanted to say that if I received a card it would be absolutely precious and I think its a wonderful thing for you to have done and shows such a generosity of spirit.  I am sad she didnt reply (maybe she did and it didnt get passed on) I bet she will keep it for the rest of her life and be a truly treasured posession!

Your posts have made me feel so positive about the donor issue.  I have never had the chance to hear from people donating and its been a huge benefit for me and a relief.  This website is great as you dont feel so isolated and you can share with people..... thank you.

Fingers crossed for the 2ww .. you so deserve it.. positive vibes!!

Loui - fingers crossed for you too - again its lovely to hear about people sharing the same experiences!

A x


----------



## Loui123

aemiliastar - thank you for your thoughts.  

I haven't had a chance to read your posts back, so forgive me if I ask a sensitive question. I see that you went to IM in January - I am going there in April. Does that mean that you are on their list now for DE's? If so, did they say how long you would have to wait for a match, and what criteria for the donor did you specify? The reason I ask is that DH and I are both blond and blue eyed, and we chose IM because they said that normally someone would be matched within 3-4 weeks, but in our case, with our colouring, it could take 6-8 weeks. How did you appointment with them go? Will you stay in the same accommodation for ET? If so, where was it?

Sorry for all the ques! I am on the IM thread too.

Loui xxx


----------



## aemiliastar

Hi Loui

Not a problem at all I have PM'd you 

xxx


----------



## marie10

Hello ladies

I was just reading through your post's and was reading with interest that Christina you had sent a card to your donor, Well i think that's a wonderful idea. 
  On my last cycle of ED I also sent my Donor a card just a small hand made card that I made for her to say thankyou ..... she had given me something very special i wanted to repay her so i asked the nurse to pass it on for me.......  
For what she was prepared to do for us I could never repay her for so I wanted her to know that I was forever greatful...

Take Care 

Lovely's

        

Marie x x x x


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## Loui123

Christina - I've just seen your BFP - woohoo - yeh! Very well done! how do you feel (silly question!)

loui xxx


----------



## christina07

thanks loui im over the moon but a bit gutted at the same time for my recipient as she never got bfp this time, just hope she got some frosties out of this one so she can try again soon. just been to see my midwife to make an appointment with consultant to see about having a cervical stitch this time. im being cautiously optomistic its very early days, and dont want to be left dissapointed again, but at the same time i know im lucky to even get this far x


----------



## aemiliastar

Christina - just wanted to say a well deserved congratulations.. x


----------



## christina07

thanks very much aemiliaster, im being cautiously optimistic ive got a long way to go yet, but im still grateful to get this far.


----------



## Chelley

Hi Christine, congratulations.  That's fantastic news.  

     

I know what you mean about being cautiously optimistic, it's hard to stop worrying.    But we are cheering you on all the way. 


Love
Chelley
x x


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## christina07

thakyou chelley

im really glad i posted on this thread as you are all so lovely and supportive of each other, good luck with the rest of your pregnancy chelley your over half way there now, hope your enjoying it, its lovely when you get to that stage and you can feel the baby kicking and moving about you really begin to feel pregnant.
                                      take care christina x


----------



## olivia m

Hi Lisa
Congratulations on your pregnancy.  What is fundamental to the way your child thinks and feels about being donor conceived is how comfortable and confident you and your partner feel about the decisions you have made.  If you are able to convey confidence to your child then s/he is much more likely to feel proud of who they are, whether or not the donor(s) are anonymous.  Either later this year or early next year DC Network will be bringing out a new story book for young children conceived by double or embryo donation.  Keep an eye on our web site www.dcnetwork.org for news of this book, and whilst you are there have a look at the Telling and Talking booklets, all aimed at helping parents share information with their children about any type of donor conception.
Best wishes
Olivia


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## olivia m

Dear All
Just to let you know that DC Network is running a series of workshops around the country for parents of 0 - 7 year olds to help with sharing information with children and others.  They are held on Saturdays from 10am to 3.45 pm and the cost is £20 per adult (concessions £5) - this includes lunch and a pack of materials, including the 0-7 Telling and Talking booklet.  For more information about content and geographical areas go to www.dcnetwork.org and follow the link from the L column on the home page.  You can also download a booking form from there.  You do not have to be a member of DCN to join in.
We will be holding at least one workshop for parents of older children early in 2009.
Best wishes
Olivia


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## LiziBee

Thanks Olivia! Shame there isn't one closer to me  do you intend doing any more next year?


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## olivia m

Hi Lizi
The workshops are subsidised by a grant from the Department of Health.  We have some continuing funding for following two years, but what we need is evidence of demand from outside the Network (no problem filling almost all the current ones with network members if we want to).  So please FF'ers, if you are interested and would like a workshop in YOUR area, let DCN know, [email protected]
Best
Olivia


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## larchmont

Wow,
I've found a lot in this thread and will continue reading tomrrow; This is exactly the question my husband and I are debating now. Not whether to tell the child, but whether to have an anonymous donation. I have no question that I will be totally open about this, but rather, do I want to go through this process in Brussels, where like in many European countries, it is anonymous by law, or whether i do this in the States or UK, where it's not anonymous and the child will have the possibility of tracing its genetic mother one day.
This is our big debate now.
We are 'on board' at CRG in Brussels. And lately there have been radio shows on the French radio (I live in France) about this whole issue. France is pretty behind in ways. You can't get an egg donation here unless you fill certain limiting requirements so it's not even an option. (you have to have unexplainable infertility, no children, be under a certain age, etc)
I can't help thinking of that inevitable day when my child, soul-searching and self exploring will want to know who it's genetic mother is. How do I tell her/him that we just don't know? That it was not possible to  know? And that this part of the puzzle will never be resolved? That's tormenting me lately. THen again, it's possible, I suppose, that in 10 years these anonymity laws in Europe will change as thay have in the UK and that my child will have that possibilty. Who knows?
My feeling is that I will introduce this notion of the 3rd person involved in baby's creation at a young age, but be careful too not to burden my child with something they can't understand too early.  I know I will not wait until they are 18 to tell them. I  feel that would be a horrible shock for them to learn so late. (kind of along the lines of adoption). And that telling them early will bring acceptance and take away any taboo or shame around it. After all, wanting a child so badly as to go through all of 'this' that we are going through, is laudable. Totally prasie-worthy and selfless in so many ways. 
My father dies when I was 5. I never really knew him because i think he was absetn a lot in those first 5 years. So in a way, pieces of my puzzle are missing. But I accept it today. I can live with it. And I think the human race is capable of accepting a lot more than we think sometimes.
Welcoming feedback,  Larchmont


----------



## LiziBee

Hi Larchmont!
It's a difficult question isn't it? 
Our (or rather our children's) donor is anonymous but that wasn't through an active choice, it was merely the best match at the time. I do feel sorry for DD and the baby that they wont be able to find out who that donor is but ultimately I don't think it will be as big a deal as being 'donor conceived' in itself. 
Personally I would concentrate on which clinic is best for you both (whether that's based on success rates, location or cost etc.) then ask yourself if you can live with the conditions under which the gametes are donated at that clinic. But that's just my opinion.
Good luck!
Lizi.x


----------



## stephanie1

Hello

Larchmont, I agree with Lizzi and for us we went to Brussels because they changed the rules in the uk and the uk ran out of donors and I did not want to wait a year so we went to Brussells and they were so professional that it gave me a lot of confidence.
The other issue with the donor is only raised if you succeed in your treatments and I believe in telling him sooner rather than later so that it is never taboo. So I sent my mum who lives near Paris (I am French but live in the UK with UK hubby) to get me a picture book for kids called mon histoire a moi (my own story) and it explains that the little one parents loved each other very much and wanted a family but had to go to a hospital to get help...... anyway it is very sensitive and easy to understand. I think that if he never has the truth, he will grow with it. I understand that there is a later version of it so you may want to chec with your localc CECOS as you can buy them direct there. 
Good luck in your choices

Steph


----------



## lia 18

Hello all,

hope you don't mind me joining!!!!! this is the first time i have been on this particular thread and i have been put a little more at ease with reading your messages.

Just to give you a little background, me and my DH have been trying to get pregnant since we got married. last week he had ssr and unfortunately there was nothing there.

Obviously we are absolutely devastated and now we have many questions on our mind!!!!

Thank fully with everything with me being OK we are going for iui but we will have to use donor sperm. now my husband is heartbroke that we have to have a baby this way, but we have decided it's the only way for us.

Only our parents know because we never want to tell any children we are lucky enough to have. now i was just wondering what any ones experience of this was and what you would recommend? is it better to tell them or not??

Also if we did not tell them will they be able to find out another way that they were conceived using donor sperm or would they only ever know from us??

I am sorry to babble but need a few things clarifying in my mind cos i don't want any children we have to get a letter or owt when they are 18 from hf ea informing them of their donors information also defiantly don't want them to be branded with a mark on their birth certificate and i am just a bit unsure of the regulations.

I would very much appreciate any advice and help

Lia
xx


----------



## olivia m

Hi Lia
I can understand how devastated both you and your husband are feeling. No one uses donor sperm (or eggs) to create their family as a first choice, but now that you know that this is your only way to parenting there is someone else you need to consider as well...and this is the child you hope to have. All the evidence is...and there is a clear consensus these days...that 'telling' the child about their DC origins from early in their life is better for the child and the family as a whole.
I was about the post the following link anyway, http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/111523.php

This is an abstract of new Australian research showing that Donor Offspring May Feel Betrayal and Anger (title) if they are told or find out in adulthood that they are donor conceived.

Please do have a look at our website www.dcnetwork.org for many personal stories (particularly the For Men section and the free to download Letter leaflets) and also tools to help with 'telling'. This is not just about you and your partner and how you feel, it is about the future of another person...and they have the right not to be deceived about their genetic origins. Having this information from an early age means that a child grows up never knowing a time when they didn't know about DC and they accept it as just part of their story. Because strong emotional relationships mean much more than genetics, they have as strong a bond with their non-genetic parent as they do with their genetically related one.

Currently there is no official way that a child can find out or be told about donor conception (although Parliament is currently debating this issue - see thread on Birth Certificates) but don't let this allow to think that there is no way your child could find out. The emphasis on the genetic basis for many diseases these days is leading to wider use and availability of DNA testing, but your reluctance to talk about likenesses within the family alone, may lead your child to suspect that all is not as it should be. Some people say they don't want to 'tell' because they don't want their child to feel different, but evidence shows that many donor conceived children felt different anyway because they were aware that there was a secret in the family. Without an explanation for this feeling, they blamed themselves and/or assumed they were the child of an affair. Also, if anyone else at all knows about DC, then there is a chance of that information slipping out at the wrong time.
Not 'telling' is all about adult guilt, stigma, shame and anger. Can this possibly be a healthy way to create a family and bring up a child? Do talk together and with your clinic counsellor about your very understandable feelings, but please move on to thinking about the long term consequences. Believe me, 'telling' is actually the easier option in the end as keeping secrets takes up so much energy.
Olivia


----------



## Jayne

Hi all. I've not posted on this thread since when it first began, so won't go into my views about telling again or how we came to that decision as they are within this thread  Olivia's last post pretty much sums up how I feel about it all mind. 

Anyhow, I just wanted to pop by to update on how our boys are coming along with the whole telling thing. Ben is only 4 and doesn't really understand much of it, but we're still telling him so, like Jack, he's growing up just always knowing and he will never be able to pinpoint a time he was told, but rather will pinpoint a time when the information clicked into place and he actually understood properly what he was being told. 

Jack is going to be 8 in October and is now showing signs of understanding it all a bit more. He's starting to differentiate between the genetic parent and his daddy. For example the other day he was talking about the baby of a friend of mine who had come to visit and how noisy it had been when he'd been crying, and I said to him, in a joking way, can you imagine if mummy had a baby now and it kept you awake all night crying. He replied that I couldn't have a baby. I asked him why and he said because daddy doesn't have any sperm. So I asked him what I would have to do if I did want to have another baby, and he replied about going to the hospital to get some sperm.  So, I don't think he's quite put together the fact that his daddy isn't his biological father, but he seems to be almost there. I don't know whether to actually ask the question if he realises that daddy didn't make him, or to just leave it for him to come to me with that question. I think at the moment the latter.  I did ask him what he thought about me going to the hospital to get some sperm to make another baby (was trying to probe further on his understanding and see if he'd be upset by anything) and he just said yeah okay then, so long as you don't get a noisy one!   He was then off doing something else. 

So, it's almost 8 years on, and day to day the donor subject isn't really there. We're just a regular family with regular stuff going on. We mention it very occasionally - maybe every couple of months - just to keep it in the boys' minds, and talk about it if it's mentioned, but that's it really. We don't over kill the subject as not making it into a big issue. We've found that this way the boys don't seem to be bothered by it all. They've not seen it as something they have to announce to the world as there's no novelty factor going on. 

Definitely not regretting the decision to tell. Not that we would anyway. Even if they ever react badly to it all, I'd still prefer to go through that knowing that we told them the truth, than take the chance that one day they find out that we'd lied to them or even if they never found out, go to my grave with such a secret left behind for future generations. 

Wishing everyone lots of luck on their journeys and very personal decision making.

x


----------



## olivia m

Hi Jayne
Sounds like you are doing a great job with your boys.  And Jack is spot on cue with his greater understanding of what is going on.  Around eight is a time when children's brains develop a bit further, allowing that growing understanding to take place.  Your instinct not to draw his attention to the fact that his dad is not genetically related feels right to me.  It will dawn on him and he MAY be sad for a bit (if you notice sadness this could be what it is about) but there is no reason for it to cause a change in the relationship.
Best wishes
Olivia


----------



## LiziBee

Thanks for sharing that Jayne!
Lizi.x


----------



## Jayne

Thanks Olivia. It's good to know that Jack is pretty much where he should be in terms of his understanding of it all  

x


----------



## SWN

Wow I can see how much thinking has gone into this subject - its one that we are debating right now.  My DH and I are just embarking on the donor egg route.  I'm 45 (can't believe it) and he's 34. We have tried IVF with my eggs but it just has not worked and so we feel the only option open to us is to go for donor eggs.  Its been a tough decision but I felt that this way I will experience actually carrying the baby, will be bonded  completely to it and genetically of course its "half" my husband's. The debate we are having is whether (if we are successful, might be jumping the gun here!) the child should be told that genetically I am not its mother, even though I carried it and gave birth to it. I am an open person and would prefer (I think) to tell.  BUT my DH is vehemently against the idea. For this reason we have told no-one which is a bit of a strain as I feel like I'm lying to my friends - they all know we've been trying, but I can handle that for the sake of my husband's peace of mind. I totally understand his reasons but I hope we are not making a mistake. 

My DH was an "accident" and his genetic father left his mum before he was born.  His mum then married his step-father when he was about 9.  He says he spent YEARS wondering what his "real" dad was like, hating the fact that he didn't know him.  This led to many insecurities and unhappiness in his childhood.  He finally tracked his genetic father down when he was 27 and has not really spoken to him since apart from exchanging Christmas greetings. He says that kids don't need this confusion and insecurity being laid on them, that we should be doing everything to make his/her life happy and secure and confident and the last thing we should do is confuse them with the introduction of a third party about whom we know nothing other than a few physical attributes and hobbies and who they can never trace anyway (we are in South Africa and the donors are completely anonymous).  Oh, so very complicated!  What are your experiences and views on this matter?


----------



## lucy8

hi somewhatnervous
I had a successful DE IVF in 2003 after 6 years of unsuccessful IVF with my own eggs and now have a 4 year old DD. The eggs were donated from my sister so my situation is slightly differant to yours but the turmoil of telling or not remains the same!!
We went through all our treatments without telling anyone and it is so difficult isn,t it? In hindsite I wish i had told  family and close friends but now I feel because we have come this far it is even more difficult to tell people because surely they will feel that they have been lied to for so many years.My sister really wanted to tell people when we embarked on the DE IVF but my DH and I did not so we didn,t but as i said I really wish we had.
Since I found this amazing site I have read so much and the general consensus seems to be that it is in the childs best interest to tell the truth from an early age and i now agree with this but like you need to persuade my DH that this is the best way forward.
Olivia wrote earlier on this thread that keeping secrets takes up so much energy and I agree with that.
I really hope that it all works out for you.
Lucy


----------



## SWN

Thanks Lucy, I just read Olivia's thread and it's making me think EVEN MORE about this whole thing.  I just can't see my DH shifting in his views as he feels he has real life experience of the uncertainty that not knowing your genetic parent can bring.  I think his issues are much broader than that but nevertheless he has said absolutely emphatically that we are not telling the child or anyone else. He is doing it because he wants to give the child the security and confidence that he never had growing up and cannot see the point of destabilising the child.  I'm going to check out the dc network Olivia mentioned and try to really understand the issue before I broach it again with him.

I suppose the way we should approach it is first of all actually get pregnant and have the baby  Then we have a little time to decide whetehr / when to tell the child - the problem will arise if we leave it too long I guess.  

Thanks so much for responding and sharing your dilemma with me, it is comforting to know that I'm not alone in this!


----------



## stephanie1

Hello somewhatnervous

well I guess it is kind of awkward for your DH as it is him that has the fertility issue so it must be tough. The only thing I can add is that at least you have FF and it is a fantastic site for peer support so you are not alone. 
The other thing that may be used as an argument with your DH when the time is right: 
you will have to ensure that no documents from the clinic is left in your house going forward so that if you do succeed you little one when he gets older do not find such papers. 
We decided to tell but to be honest once you get PG and you have your baby you even forget there was a donor (figure of speech because we are grateful for donors and do not forget this) but your baby is DH baby and it is incredible!!!

All the best of luck with your quest
Steph


----------



## olivia m

Hi Somewhatnervous
Sounds like your DH had a very difficult time in his childhood and I can really understand him wanting any child you have to be happy, secure and confident in a way that he was not.  But the two situations are really totally different.  Your child will not be an 'accident'...far from it, he or she could not be more loved and wanted.  He or she will also have two loving parents from the beginning.  Yes, a third person will be involved in the conception, but this person is a donor not a parent.  The insecure, unhappy people I know (in the DC world) are those older children and adults who found out later about their origins.  Many of them suspected from early on that there was a family secret and suffered because they knew it was about them but didn't what what it was.  Children 'told' from an early age do not suffer from identity or self-esteem problems.  If 'told' from an early age they do not find it destabilising.  They accept their story, just the same as accepting the place they live in (and everything else in their lives).  It is not a big problem for them,unless parents make it a problem.  
It does sometimes take a while for one or other partner in a relationship (and it's not always the non-genetic parent) to understand that being 'open' is both the healthiest and easiest way to raise a child.  It takes time, loving understanding and sometimes some good support from a counsellor and organisations like ours for mind-sets to shift.  Do check out our web site www.dcnetwork.org    You would be very welcome as members.

To Lucy8 - It really isn't too late to be 'open' now.  Your daughter is only four, which is a great age to start reading Our Story - for children conceived by egg donation to her.  Also look at the Telling and Talking booklets on our website, particularly the section on 'telling' when you have a known donor.  Explain to others that you had originally thought that not telling was the right thing to do but you now realise that it is better to be 'open' and you wanted them to be amongst the important people that you told (because of course you don't have to tell anyone outside of close family and friends and others who may have your child's interests at heart like doctors and teachers).
Not so easy to do it later, but definitely better than not doing it at all.
Best wishes to both of you
Olivia


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## SWN

Thank you Olivia and Steph for your support - this is really helping. I have started to make a few more noises about if we are succesful then maybe we should tell the child, even if we're not telling everyone else at this stage and the good news is that I'm not getting a complete "no" from DH.  I think I maybe need to just relax, go through the tx and if we are so fortunate that it works then decide how to go forward from there.  I read safarigirl's account on the dcnetwork and that really helped me to get this into perspective, what a moving story and I can already relate to it even though we're not even pg yet!  Thanks all, I'll keep you posted.  FF is a great help.


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## olivia m

Hi All
Here's some more evidence that 'telling' from an early age is the right thing to do...and it's straight from the horses mouth...the children themselves.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7493073.stm

Olivia


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## Wendeth

Hi, do you mind me posting here here? I have read this thread la few times in the past months and I am definitely of the opinion to tell any child we are able to grow all about their origins.  

The difficulty i am having at the moment is how to tell my 7 (nearly 8 yr old son what we are about to do (as I type we are awaiting the call to say our donor is ready).   He understands the facts of life pretty well, knows that i can't have any more children as i've got no eggs left but we are worried that if we tell him it will spread all over the entire school (he talks a lot) and then the whole of the town will know what we're up to. 

On the other hand, something as important as creating a sibling for him should not be wrapped in cotton wool and i am all for telling him but DH has reservations.  

Perhaps again, like others who've posted, we should wait until we get that BFP before worrying about it but it is an issue that i can't see posted anywhere else.   Has anyone else had this experience and what did you do?

Wendeth


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## stephanie1

Hello Wendeth

it is always difficult to get it completely right. When I had asked the psychologist about it e said that when the child asks about it you answer the question without telling all the details but you always have the same story. Infact you give little bit of info at a time. I like this idea. So if we try again next year I will start to explain some of it but not all. Your little one may find that being told some of the info but not all interesting and make him feel part of the project too. His mummu will need help and that enough for a first conversation. the key part is to always have the same story.

Good luck with your choices and the treatment

steph


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## Wendeth

Hi Steph, yes i like this idea about introducing the idea of 'getting help' to make a brother or sister for him.  I'll have a chat with DH tonight.  i briefly mentioned it last night to him but he didn't think it was a good idea - but that was his thoughts on telling DS all the gorey details - well, you're right, we don't need to do that, just make sure the story is the same each time and add in details as and when.  I am worried he is picking up on private phone calls, the fact that me and DH are going away to Spain without him and on top of all that we're moving house in 3/4 weeks after my 2WW.  He's a bright wee thing and i'm sure he's picking up on vibes of secrecy around the house which I don't like. 
I'll let you know how it goes.
Wendy


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## olivia m

Hi Wendeth and Steph
This technique, of starting with 'getting help' and then building up information as a child's understanding grows and they ask questions, is exactly how we recommend 'telling' children about donor conception.  It's no different for older siblings of these children.  Wendeth, as your son is 7 and 'a bright wee thing' he may want to know a bit more about just what sort of help you are having.  As he seems to know that you have no more eggs left, it seems reasonable to tell him that you need some help from another woman who is kind enough to give some of her eggs to help you have another baby.  You may want to look at our Telling and Talking booklets (free to read and download from www.dcnetwork.org) for ideas of other language to use.  As you indicate, he is almost certainly getting messages that something is going on, so much better that he has age appropriate information about it.
You may also have to think about how much it matters if he tells other people.  Making a baby is your private business but needing to use egg donation is nothing to be ashamed of, so perhaps if the news does get out it isn't the end of the world.
Best wishes
Olivia


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## LiziBee

Wendeth - I think others have mentioned in the past about telling their children that  the 'donation stuff' is 'private' rather than telling them it's a 'secret'. It might make it less 'thrilling' and so less tempting to tell others also it stops it seeming like something shameful that one might have to hide. Does that help?
Lizi.xxx


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## sunsh1ne

HI Larchmont and others who have been responding to the concept of an anonymous donation. 
My DH and I are using an anonymous sperm donor out of choice, because this child will be that of myself and DH, and not a sperm donor that can be traced in 18 years time. 
I realise that some people might find this idea selfish, (that the child would be unable to trace it's biological gamate donor) but until a few years ago this was the law and I wish I was now able to concieve using annonymous DI as it was then. 
Children born before the change in the law will not have the choice to trace their sperm donor and their parents will have to deal with any 'fall-out' from that, as will I if my child finds this a problem. 
We do intend to tell the child that they were the much longed for result of DI, friends and family know DH had a failed vasectomy reversal, and know our plan to use DI so the use of an annoymous donor is not being done in an attempt at secrecy for the child. It's more about the concept of this being 'our' child and no-one elses. 
On a positive note I have a family member whose first child was concieved using donor sperm (before the change in the law) after many years of failed fertility treatments. (they have subsequently been blessed with TWO children who were concieved naturally with no treatment! So miracles do happen!)
Anyway, the first child knows all about their conception and right now has no problem that the donor is annonymous. 
These boards do give a very good picture of all the different opinions that people have around these tricky subjects, and I'm interested as to why for example Larchmont you are keen(?) that 'the child will have the possibility of tracing its genetic mother one day' and LiziBee you've said 'I do feel sorry for DD and the baby that they wont be able to find out who that donor is'. Not 'picking' on you guys to answer me! Just you have both expressed opinions that sound like you think you'd like your offspring to be able to trace their donor and I feel (right now) so adament that I don't want this, that I am interested in what others have to say about why they are happy for their donor to be traceable. Hope I've not rambled too much, nor unintentionally offended anyone, definitely not intended! 
Thanks for reading
Sunsh1ne X


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## LiziBee

Sunshine - I guess as a teacher I've cared for a number of students who have struggled with their identity and I think that knowing who their donor is might help with that (you'd be surprised the comfort some kids seem to get from just 'knowing' without ever meeting their absent fathers - bearing in mind that the child I taught usually had 'single parent' and not donor issues). 
I am interested in reading your signature that you appear to be 'going it alone' without a clinic, is that correct? 
Lizi.x


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## sunsh1ne

Hi LiziBee, thanks for your reply,
We are using an annoymous service, donations screened for HIV and other infections, and we have some basic info. about the donor, height, weight, age, educational achievements etc.  
I guess these could be the kind of men who were donating before the change in the law but got put off by the idea that they would be traceable.  
I suppose I would hope that this child would have a strong sense of identity within our family, and am concerned that a 'known donor' would undermine their relationship to my DP's children (my step-children)... As I said before it's not a secret that we are using DI, so children etc. know that DP will not be the biological father of my baby, but having a known donor feels different... 

Sunsh1ne X


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## LiziBee

Sunshine - I think using 'known donor' is very different to the current situation (where the children can apply for the details of their donor). For example if any of my cousins were to be infertile I wouldn't hesitate to donate my eggs BUT I would only do it as a 'reciprocal' donation i.e. I would have my eggs given to a couple not known to me in order that it would bump my cousins to the front of the donor queue (I hope you get what I mean here). I have no problem with an 'unknown' child tracing me 18 years down the line but I don't want to complicate our larger family relationships by seeing a child produced with my eggs grow up in our (somewhat extended, yet very close) family.
Does that make sense?
Lizi.xxx


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## olivia m

Hi Sunshine
You are right of course that up until 2005 all donors were anonymous.  All children conceived by DI before this time face the same issues of not ever knowing about half their genetic origins. There is some solidarity in this.  The problem with using an anonymous donor in 2008 is that children conceived this way will be in a different position to those children conceived with the help of identifiable donors.  When they understand this they MAY resent the choices made by parents, wishing that they too could have known who their donor was.  What we can never know is how our children will feel in the future.
In my experience children have no difficulty whatsoever in distinguishing between a donor and a dad.  There is nothing for you and your partner to fear from using an identifiable donor, but you may find yourselves in a position in some years time in explaining just how you saw the advantages for your child in choosing an anonymous donor.
Olivia


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## sunsh1ne

Hi there, 
Thanks for your replies, 
Olivia m: Yes I think you're right that we could face the possibility of having to explain what we thought were the advantages to an annoymous donation. 

I did originally write a much longer reply than the one I posted above ... but was rambling too much! 
My DP doesn't mind using a traceable donor - but I think I have a fear of the unknown and a huge 'what if?' factor about having a traceable donor possibly become part of my child's life (and mine) in 18 years time. (yup getting ahead of myself abit here I realise!) I'm sure there are many positives that people think a traceable donation brings, but I can think of lots of negatives too! 

It is really good/ enlightening to read how other people feel about wanting more information on their donor, or the possibility of donating eggs themselves and being happy to possibly be traced in the future. 

Lizi Bee: I wrote known donor but meant traceable donor! Sorry! (thinking and writing at the same time is too complicated sometimes!) We actually are possibly going to use a known donor - but this is cos he's a good guy and holds no 'what if?' factor! 
So as you can see it's abit all or nothing for me/us at the moment!  
Who know what path we may pursue in the future.
Sunsh1ne X


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## Jane D

Thanks for this discussion. It is very helpful. I have a bio dd aged 3.  We are going to go for DEIVF during the next twelve months.  If I am successful, there is the matter of talking to DD and I would of course mention my condition and the need for medical assistance .  If I am successful, I have a great counsellor to speak to with my dh.    However, it is my families right to keep the information close and I would not want my 3 year old in nursery school telling everyone mummy got eggs from another lady as I value privacy and I live in a close knit Welsh rural area now.  

One day I hope DEIVF will be as normal as a box of cornflakes on a supermarket shelf, but at the moment it is new, not publicised and deviating from the norm.  My heart rises when I see women celebs having babies in their mid 40's  and I wonder whether it is DEIVF, but these people choose privacy and decide not to disclose.  I respect that.  However if they were open , it would help DEIVF get accepted as a regular thing to do.  It is a difficult personal decision at the end of the day.  More general awareness and publicity about DEIVF would be good and the understanding of the public that at 47 it is most likely a DEIVF pregnancy.  Women dramatically delaying motherhood should fully understand that later successful pregnancies are usually DEIVf ones and be alerted to the fact that it is highly unlikely they can have their bio child.

Sorry to go on a bit

Jane


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## olivia m

Hi Jane
DC Network certainly understands about family privacy and we encourage families to think about the differences between privacy and secrecy. Most people would prefer not to do national publicity but some of our families understand that it is only through greater public awareness of egg (and sperm) donation as one of the many ways to create a family, that greater societal acceptance will occur. In yesterday's Daily Telegraph there was an article and large photo of such a Network family. You can see them on this link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/main.jhtml?xml=/health/2008/07/22/hivfparents.xml
My husband and I have also done considerable national publicity. We have never encountered prejudice or stigma as a result. We also have members in small rural communities who have chosen to be open with others about their way of having their family (albeit often with heart in mouth). They too have encountered nothing but interest, warmth and kindness. It seems that if we truly accept donation ourselves then others are likely to do so as well.
As much as I hate to say it (as I loathe their influence) it would be SO good if some of the celebs would 'come out' as having had help from a donor...as those over 47 almost certainly have.
Olivia


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## Jane D

Thanks for the link Olivia.  I could spend all day talking about DEIVF!  I do find it easy to talk to complete strangers about it.  I was at an NCT nearly new sale last week selling all my baby equipment off, and I just found myself telling the organiser that I can't have any more bio children and she revealed she had needed IVF and another lady asked if I had considered egg donation.  That really made my day, that someone just talked about it straight out.  Another lady then told me about a friend in the middle of adoption process.  It brightened my day.  

Jane


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## olivia m

Even the conservative Daily Telegraph thinks openness is best and that DC Network has much to offer in support of parents. Here is the link to article in today's paper -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/main.jhtml?xml=/health/2008/09/09/hlesley109.xml

Olivia


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## Jane D

Cheers for that Olivia

Always good to see something positive in the press, getting people talking about donor conception.

Found the comments from the public a bit offensive, particularly Roger who called donor conceived children "abnormal".  As the potential mother of a DEIVF child that was a hurtful ignorant comment  Have sent a response direct to Daily Telegraph!

Jane


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## Jayne

Hi all  

I posted a few weeks back that I thought Jack (who is 8 in October) was just about at the stage where he was starting to understand. Well, the penny has finally dropped. Or rather, I should say that it's dropped for me, as it seems he's realised for a while, but just not mentioned it! It's so funny really. I was waiting for this HUGE moment when it would dawn on him that daddy wasn't his biological parent and a big emotional outburst or some sort of discussion or something dramatic would happen. In fact I've been steeling myself for it for years   But nope, we were reading the My Story book to Ben (who is almost 5) and I went through it all again with Jack and asked if he understood what it all meant and how he wasn't made in quite the same way as his friends probably were, etc. and he just said 'yeah, I come from you but not from daddy' in such a relaxed tone (I didn't say this first as have always wanted him to realise it as opposed to me tell him so specifically). I asked if this bothered or upset him at all and he just said 'nope' in a completely normal way (I'd know at his age if this wasn't the case as I know him so well). It seems he never had that jaw dropping moment of realisation that I was always anticipating. It really has been a case of that because he's known all the time, he just grew to know what it meant. I'm sure the future will bring further questions, but I'm starting to think they won't happen quite the way I thought they would. It's right that we thing about all this before we have a child, but I'm starting to realise that we definitely can make a bigger deal out of it all than our children ever will if they are told from the very begining  We think of every angle and worry about every detail, but children don't do that as much and in such depth. It's like the whole worry that they will run around telling the whole world that they are donor conceived and you fear they will be picked on, etc. It just won't happen. It's not a big deal to them really as there's no novelty factor to it if they've always known. If you're comfortable with it all and know you have nothing to hide. They will be comfortable with it too  

x


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## olivia m

Yeah to that Jayne!  Every word you say rings true for so many families.  It's just not a big deal for children if they have grown up with the info from very young.
Olivia


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## SUSZY

HI Jane D and Wendeth (and hello and good luck to everyone else)
Its good to see you posting on here - you know if you have any questions you can ask me too!
Its so hard to know what to do for the best and I hope that when it works hopefully this next time in a few years time I can make it public and do lots of promotion to get more donors. Its just a shame I miscarried this last time as the due date coincided with when Angela did some publicity at Bham and it would have been so nice to have been there with her with the baby.
We have been very open and honest with ds from the start and some people might say we have told him too much, showing him pictures in the book about eggs and sperm fertilizing and explaining that a lovely lady Angela that he has also met (and all her family) and its so nice to be able to talk about it with him. Now I am cycling again he even reminding me about my inj this morning and is quite blase about mummy having another lovely ladies egg and i feel so lucky that I can share it with him. When we first went through it I did ask him only to talk to one of his little friends about it as did not want everyone in the school (until i was ready) to know esp as one of my supposed closest friends said when I told her about using donor eggs - oh you wouldn't do that it wouldn't be your baby and that ignorant type of comment is whats made me a little more reserved than normal.  Sometimes I have not felt strong enough to answer the inevitable questions that will arise but others I am so.
anyway i am rambling now.
hope to get all the leaflets soon when I get my bfp as long as the little frosties thaw!
good luck to everyone
love
susie


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## Jane D

Hi Suzy

Great to hear from you too.  I am so glad that the treatment has now started and DS is taking it in his stride.  Not long to go now.  You would be an asset for donation promotion, I am so praying everything goes well for you.

We definately need to catch up again soon don't we?  Txt or pm me.

Love

Jane
x


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## mojitomummy

Hi,
some more comments have been posted to the telegraph article showing up rogers outdated views...


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## mojitomummy

Hi,
Sorry i haven't read all the posts just the last few. Jayne - your story is great. that is exactly how i want it to be wit my kids - that its always just one of those things.

My mum and dad had similar worries after adopting me and always worried that when "i realised" it would be a big shock.. my dad says one of the things he really remembers that brought a lump to his throat was when one of my friends asked me "You're one of those adopteds - what does it feel like?"  and I simply said to her with no emotion or troubles "whats it like to not be adopted?". We were about 5.

As for privacy and secrecy - I think that is a key issue.  It was very open that I was adopted but my mum and dad never told anyone other than me the details about my birth family.  I intend to do similar with my (donor) child (or hopefully one day children).  The info about them being donor conceived is theirs not the worlds.  

I just hope stories like these make people feel more comfortable with telling their children

xxx


----------



## jess p

I'm adopted too & I also know loads of other adoptees.  

I was told by my parents from such an early age I have no recollection of it.  Mum told me she was advised to whisper it to me as a baby (brainwashing!! ) - I've always been shown my own scrap book of letters from the adoption agency, including a paragraph about both my parents and a copy of a photo of me that my natural mother had asked for.

The only thing that ever shocked me was, when my mum dropped into conversation when I was about 8 some details about "Katy and William" - 2 failed adoptions M&D had had prior to me - I was devastated as being 8 years old, was totally egotistical & had never imagined they had wanted anyone other than me!!  I can still remember the feeling of the blood draining out of my face!!

To me, this highlights the importance of knowing at a v early age.

I also know of a boy who had 3 older sisters who were his adoptive parents' natural DDs - he was told on his 18th birthday that he was adopted - he was devastated & had a breakdown.  Not surprising really - it's a HUGE thing to tell someone.

I am proud to have been to Athens to have donor eggs - it shows that my DH & I were determined to have a baby - it's not my egg but I shall have carried the baby & the day the embryos went back it felt so "right".

No doubt in times of teenage arguments I may get "you're not my mother" thrown at me but I'm prepared for that & I know my child will be so loved that it won't really believe that!

I have had to tell quite a few people, as I'd already told them there was no hope for us with my own eggs.  Also, I teach & needed lots of time off during term time & colleagues were brilliant so I felt they should know why.  I don't think anyone really sees it as a big deal - even our v religious members of staff have been openly delighted for us, not at all concerned that we'd "bought" eggs.

Good luck to everyone else,

Love Jess xxx


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## Kamryn

Hi all

Hope you don't mind me dibbing in on this board!

I have a daughter conceived using donor sperm (DIUI in 2004). She is now nearly 4 years old and in the last 6 months we have started to get her used to the idea that she was conceived this way in the hope that it just becomes the norm to her (Jayne, your story gives me hope that this will be the case!)

We have given her the 'My Story' book with her picture and details in it, which she loves and now can tell us the story back.  Obviously she doesn't understand fully how natural conception occurs and the difference between this and the way she was conceived but confidently tells us that she wants a brother / sister and that we'd better get to the hospital to see the nurse and get some kind men to give us some sperm!!!!!!  

My DH and I are happy and confident with our decisions and how our family was made and are now going through it again to try and conceive the much wanted brother / sister.  We don't advertise the fact that we used a donor but also it is no secret if that makes sense?  Our family know this was how we had our DD and it is just accepted as the norm for us all now and none of us really think about it that much.  DH is DD's daddy, who's there for her, cares for her, wipes her tears, reads her bedtime stories etc and thats all that counts to us.

Sorry for rambling and I hope this helps some of you facing the dilemma!

Kamryn

P.S  DD was conceived before the change in anonymity, laws so will not be able to trace her donor but number 2 if successful obviously would.  We have thought long and hard about this but now we've had one and now how she's loved and how much she loves her daddy we don't think this will be a huge problem in the future with a sibling that would potentially be able to get the details of his/her donor.  My dad is adopted and didn't trace his biological parents until after his adoptive parents had both died.  He needed the closure on who he was but having traced his biological mother (who had in fact also died) found that the brief information as to his start in life was just enough for him to feel his identity and then chose not to persue it further as he felt more strongly than ever that his adoptive parents were his mum and dad.


----------



## Skirtgirl

hi,  haven't read all the posts but some of them. Has anyone decided not to tell the child they were conceived by divf?
If the child can't trace the biological parents would this not make them feel more anxious than not ever knowing?
I have biological 5 year olds and wouldn't want to introduce them to the ideas of conception at such an early stage.
We are just about to embark on a DE ivf cycle so I am thinking about all these issues.


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## ameliacooper

Hi Girls

This is a topic close to my heart.  I have a gorgeous little girl who was conceived with a known donor who lives not far from us and who I speak to occassionally but is not directly involved in our lives.  I always thought I would tell Alexi about her Dad and that he doesn't live with us and that I wanted her so much - but I'm scared that she will see this as rejection from her dad.

I do have a slight problem with the word donor - because I felt at the time he wasn't a donor more of a 'friend' who luckily got me pregnant but we did always agree that she would be mine.

She obviously can meet him (if he agrees to it) but the one thing I worry about is rejection and to be honest I want us to move on from him.

I would appreciate any advice on how to tell my little one when the time comes.

Axx


----------



## Kirsty26

Hi A,

I am ttc right now through donor artificial insemination. I am currently in week two of 2ww.(2nd attempt)

when i first made the decision i was adamant that i would not want anything to do with the donor once successful and the child would just need to know they were loved and wanted and that would be enough no more information needed. However my opinion has changed greatly the more i have researched 'donor children' and also the more i have chatted to my donor. I have been lucky enough to find a wonderful guy willing to help, but who is leaving the contact decisions with me. He is married with 2children of his own, his wife fully supports him in his helping me to concieve and is also very open to contact, again at a level that suits all, basically to know it was successful, to know the sex and anything i want inbetween, and anything the child wants later on (within reason, obvioulsy he is helping me to have a child of my own not another addition to his family)  i do not want any emotional or financial support but i do think that the child should have the option to have as much information as they want. I also have come to believe that the child should know from day one how they came about, i have read stories and spoken to donor children/adults all the positive ones said they 'always just knew' and therefore it was never an issue for them. those who found out later on were devasted because they felt that they had been lied to or they werent what they thought!! The ones that alwaya knew also had no buring desire to find out more about their 'father' or where they came from, but again those who had not been told or found out later on always felt the need to have more information.
Basically what i am trying to say is that from what i have learnt from them and my research is honesty is best but by not making a big deal out of it just saying it is how it is, is the best way to go. your daughter will know you love her very much and that you made the choice to have her, however it happened or whatever the situation now. but by making it not a nig deal from the start will make it not a big deal for her.

I hope this helps even a little bit. If you want to talk about it anymore plese feel free to contact me!! 

 best wishes


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## ology

I have been reading all the posts on this topic with great interest as we are currently having the same thoughts about whether to tell a child born from DEIVF about their origins.  My default position currently is that telling the child is best but there are issues that I cannot quite resolve.

It is a fact that many children these days are born into single parent families and these results from a breakdown in the relationship to a drunken one night stand with a complete stranger and everything in between.  What do these parents tell their children?  You have a genetic father/mother but I have no idea who they are or do they lie?  Has anyone ever talked to these children to see how they feel about their origins and if they have a desire to trace that parent.  and if they do what do they find.  What if tracing the parent or donor is not a positive experience or the child is rejected.  What are the results of that?  is that a positive thing for the parents because it reinforces the bond between them and the child or is it a destructive and distressing event for the child that they need not have gone through if they didn't know they were donor conceived?

Are we creating a group of people who are by definition different from everyone else by labelling them in the first place.  When it is so important for children to fit it with their peers and friends is making them feel that they are not the same another 'issue' that they may have to deal with. All of us here are different because we cannot conceive in the normal way, but many of us do not ever tell the outside world, or even our families that we are having fertility treatment because we do not want to 'feel' different, we don't want people to know, the barriers are slowly being broken down but the stigma or taboo still exists and these are feelings we have as normally conceived adults who have grown up in normal families.  We want to conform and to fit, we don't want to be different.

If you are a couple with no family other than yourselves who is there to tell, and if you don't tell your child then there is no-one else who can accidentally tell them.  How many other people have things in their lives that they do not wish to share with their children or anyone else?  Previous pregnancies, prison sentences, drug abuse, physical or mental abuse?  The list of societies ills is endless and is keeping these things a secret more or less damaging than an anonymous donor?

But of course if your decision is not to tell then you are always at risk of the authorities revealing your 'secret'.  Hospitals and GP's will be aware of your treatment so do you live your life dreading illness or medical emergency, and does this mean that they need to contact the donor, surely not as all of the people conceived before the change in the law cannot find their donor anyway.  I guess the issue may be blood typing or DNA matching but the chances of this happening....we make the same decisions every day, crossing the road, walking home in the dark, a quick phone call whilst driving, we do them because we assess the risk and then take the consequences of our actions. Of course this action has an effect on the life on another not just ourselves but how do we know that we are making the right decision.  Telling OUR child may be the wrong thing to do

I guess my question is what are the consequences of not telling; where are the people who have not told and everything is ok.

It's a rambling brain dump and I'm sorry if any of it offends or confuses but these are the thoughts that go through my head.....am I the only one thinking them?  I know that there are answers for everything that I've mentioned but there doesn't seem to be representation from both sides.....maybe that's the answer in itself.


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## Kirsty26

Hi, personally my opinions we're based on research I had done with donor children and their families, but also my own personal situation and feelings. I am single, and have made the choice to do this alone, but I have also been fortunate enough to have been able to have contact with my donor and his family and he is a wonderful man and his wife is amazing and supportive and his children gorgeous. And I have been the one able to set the rules, I don't want emotional or financial support but I did want to give the child the option to have access to information should they want it. Because of my fortunate situation I am easily able to say that I will be open and honest from the start, but even in less convenient situations I believe it is often for the best to open and accept the situation for what it is, HOWEVER I also appreciate that every situation is different and as long as the childs best interests are first and foremost and not our own concerns about "keeping secrets" then I think it has to be left to the individual or couples in that situation to make the right choice.


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## babymithel

Hi, I am a donor, I donated eggs to a couple whilst doing egg share ivf. I cannot really understand why anyone wouldn't want to be honest with their child. If it is know about from a fairly young age it would be accepted by the child. I don't think a parent would be rejected by a child just because they weren't biologically related. Surely if someone felt that strongly against the child knowing anything, they wouldn't want to go ahead with using a donor in the first place and put themselves in such a predicament?


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## olivia m

Hi Ology
I think a lot of people have the sort of thoughts you are having going round in their heads.  My own take on this (and you will have read other posts from me earlier on this thread) is that other things you might keep secret (prison sentence, drug abuse etc) are all about YOU.  Donor conception is about the CHILD, how they have come into being.
Many DC adults who were not 'told' as children have spoken about how they felt odd or different in their families and not having an explanation for this blamed themselves for this feeling.  In many cases this left them with low self-esteem and difficulties in relating to others.  On the other hand, many children and young people in DC Network who have been 'told' from the outset, enjoy the sensation of being a bit different.  Some go out of their way to share the information with friends whilst others just quietly accept the knowledge as part of their story.  In 16 years of the Network I have never come across a DC adult who was not pleased to know about their origins, but I have come across many who felt angry at being deceived for so long.  Not 'telling' is putting at risk relationships in the family.  Why would anyone choose to do this?
Olivia


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## Kirsty26

Olivia I agree comletely! As I've previously stated, I am extremely lucky to have the donor I do and would be proud to tell the child and my family and friends about him and his family, but that aside its not about us, as you say its about the child and what is best for them and honesty about who they are is very important.it doesn't need to be shouted from the roof tops to all but the child should never be made to feel they are a "secret" or that something isn't "quite right" 
Despite my own thought being the same as yours it is still nice to have them confirmed as I obviously want to do what's right too when I am lucky enough to fall pregnant.


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## ♥JJ1♥

When I started off I also have a known donor who is a gay man in a committed relationship who I would tell my child and there would be contact, as both are dear friends of mine, he was happy for me to tell the child as much or as little as I wanted.  He has told his parents and they also send their good wishes and pryaers etc along the way and are supportive of him, his partner is also very involved in TTC (and comes to all the scans, appts, gives me my injections etc) it is great to have such support and not being 'alone' on the journey.  

Now we are also into the realms of using donor eggs and his sperm, I think it is even more important to be honest to the child with its origins, but I do appreciate that it is an individual decision.  I think/hope that if it is brought in early on then it becomes the norm for the child.


Lx


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## SWN

I follow this thread with interest.  I am now almost 21 weeks pregnant with twin boys, through DEIVF. No one in our family knows about the DE part of the process, although they are aware that we had some "help" from fertility doctors and went through IVF. I only have my father left on my side of the family and he lives on another continent.  MY DH's family live far away from us, and so we are our own little unit. The egg donor was completely anonymous, all I know about her is her age and some physical characteristics. 

My feeling is that I am having such an intimate experience, nurturing the growth of these 2 babies growing inside me, that they ARE  the product of me and my DH.  This might sound strange, but I regularly forget the fact that genetically they have half of their origin from another source (although I am eternally grateful to the donor).  Perhaps the anonymity of the donor has served to reinforce that feeling - I am sure if I knew the donor, if for example she was a friend or family member then the feeling would be quite different. In a nutshell I feel that these babies are very much mine.

So now, when my boys are here, what do I tell them?  Do I tell them that although they grew inside me and I gave birth to them, genetically they are not mine, but that they are their Dad's?  Why do I put that doubt into their minds about their genetic background?  What purpose does it serve? I cant tell them anything about the donor, they cant find out anything if they wanted to, so would this not result in the very feeling that we are trying to avoid?  One of not belonging, of being different? 

A lot of the arguments in this thread present the position that the children will somehow feel that they are different or don't quite belong, and that people are being in some way cowardly to not tell the child.  My concern is that by telling my children about it I will create the very issues that we seek to avoid.

I also wonder whether (and this is just wondering) there is any difference in donor eggs and donor sperm in the child's response.  I am carrying my children and they have grown from 5 day blastocysts inside me.  Does it make them more "mine" because I am growing them and will give birth to them, and they will know that?

Does the sex of the child have any significance in this issue?  If I was carrying girls, perhaps I would feel more strongly about telling - because they wont grow up to look like me, or any of the photos they can see of my mum or gran. And I think, maybe, it might be more important to girls to know what they'll be like physically and where they get their big thighs from etc! Hereditary illnesses should not be a problem as there are none in my family and none in the donor's. In our case with 2 boys won't they will be looking to their father for their physical genetic traits? 

More questions I know, but I think its important to look at all of the angles when considering how to handle this highly sensitive matter.  The jury is still out for me.  My initial response was to tell them, although my DH was completely against it, however the more I progress in this pregnancy and bond with my children, the questions are back in my mind about the right thing to do - for them.

Hope you are all well and that for those of you who are ttc you find success.


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## Skirtgirl

SWN  we are not as far down the route as you but I echo your feelings exactly. I have no intention of telling any children we would be licky to have, If noone else knows why do they need to know?
As regards the girls looking like mummy I donthink this is relevant either. I and all my family are dark haired and dark eyed and my biological daughter(and son) are the image of their father blond haired and blue eyes! they also look exactly like their cousins on dh side. Ihave no problem with them having none of my physical characteristics as they pick up mannerisms from me which are just as if not more powerful!.

Good luck to you and your DH twins are fab .Mine have been a real adventure and the best thing ever to happen in my life!!!


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## olivia m

Hi SWN
You will have seen other posts from me and know that DC Network is pro-openness.  Despite this, I do understand your feelings. Of course these babies ARE yours.  No question about it, but they still deserve to be told that a donor was involved in their creation.  I think a lot of mothers and fathers manage to convince themselves in pregnancy that introducing information about the third party involved in conception would only cause confusion and unhappiness for a child.  Interestingly enough many parents change their minds when they are confronted by a baby or babies who are obviously little people in their own right and who they feel deserve the respect of being told the truth.  For if you don't 'tell' them then you will again and again (particularly as they enter school years) find yourself lying, both to them and to others, and this can feel very uncomfortable.  We all usually put honesty and trust at the top of the list of essential ingredients for good relationships between partners.  Why would we want it to be any different with our children?
I have also never met any donor conceived person, child or adult, who regretted knowing, but I have met many DC adults who felt betrayed by their parents when they discovered the truth in late teenage years or adulthood.  It might all work out absolutely fine, but not telling is putting relationships in the family at risk and to choose to do this seems l foolish.
With regard to how your sons will feel, the key is in your confidence and comfort about the choices you have made (to have them using donor conception) and an early start to 'telling' using language that is appropriate to their age and not at all upsetting (see our Telling and Talking booklets on www.dcnetwork.org).  As for not having information about their donor, my own children (and many others) have no information at all but they do consider that they have a right to know that genetic connections with their dad are not as they would have assumed them to be (we have no evidence that this is different for egg donation conceived children).  Knowing about this non-genetic connection has not made the slightest difference to the emotional relationship between my husband and our son and daughter.  You may like to look at what our daughter Zannah has to say on this on the Home Page of our web site.  You also cannot know if you or your children will develop medical conditions in the future that will make it important for them to know their genetic history.
I know you are still thinking about this issue and hope that the above will help convince you that 'telling' is the best way forward for open and trusting family relationships where there are no big secrets to get in the way.

I hope too that this will give you, Skirtgirl, something to think about as well.
Olivia


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## wolla

ology said:


> I guess my question is what are the consequences of not telling; where are the people who have not told and everything is ok.


Ology - when we were first faced with the decision of having to use donor sperm, I trawled the internet looking for this information. AS you say, there must be a large amount of families out there who have conceived with the help of a donor, not told, and lived happily ever after. It's just that they're not the ones that we read about, or who write books or dedicate websites to their experiences.



ology said:


> It's a rambling brain dump and I'm sorry if any of it offends or confuses but these are the thoughts that go through my head.....am I the only one thinking them? I know that there are answers for everything that I've mentioned but there doesn't seem to be representation from both sides.....maybe that's the answer in itself.


You're certainly not the only one thinking these thoughts - and the exact same ones went through my head all the time we were ttc and whilst I was pregnant. Now DS is here we are absolutely certain that we will NOT tell, and are completely comfortable with that decision.

I have never posted my opinion on this thread before as it always seems that anyone doing so is then battered with replies trying to convince them they are wrong (and I wait with interest for this to happen once I've hit the post button), however I now feel that I should speak up in support of other parents who have made this decision, but who then feel that they are the only ones who are not telling. Obviously I don't know how things will turn out but whatever happens we will deal with the consequences of OUR decision.

Wolla
xx


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## Skirtgirl

Wolla, good for you for posting. If we get lucky I am still not planning to tell anyone. I wouldn't want to know if it was me.
Congrats on your little one I am sure he brings you so much happpiness.


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## olivia m

Hi Wolla
I'm not asking you to justify your decision in any way - you have made it and are comfortable with it, but it would be interesting to know what has led you to think that not telling is in the interest of your child.
Olivia


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## brownowl23

Olivia - Wolla's decision is her personal decision and in my opinion should not be questioned by anyone. We should not judge people on their decisions to tell or not to tell

Chris


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## Kirsty26

The point of people coming on these boards is to discuss the topics and their decisions and opinions, therefore it is just to ask each other questions and wonder about the reasons behind their conclusions, it helps us all with our own decision making and thoughts. It is also interesting. I too would like to know how the decision to not tell is come about with the feeling that it is the right decision to make? 
I am still TTC, after 3 miscarriages, and as I mentioned before I am going to tell the child from the very beginning as soon as I am fortunate enough to fall pregnant, I am confident and happy with this choice, maybe more so because I am single and do not have "the husband/partners feelings" to consider, and maybe because I have had the opportunity to get to know my donor and feel very fortunate, he is a wonderful and kind person with an amazing wife and family. My concern for people who decide to not tell is the fact that unpredictable situations are bound to arise in which secrets always get found out, for example what if your child comes home from school one day having learnt what adoption or donor means and says innocently "am I a donor child?" will your reaction be calm and collected and am instant reply of "of course not" or would it naturally be "what? Who told you? What do you mean?" or would you flinch and turn red if someone made a crass comment or joke about adopted kids or donor children?? These may seem like silly examples but they are the kind of situations that could arise, and if you haven't always been open and honest would it cause problem?? Would you feel you are then blatently lying to your child?
I ask as well that no one takes offense to these questions or comments as I say it is out of interest, and our similar situations that we are on here in the first place, and yes of course we are all entitled to our opinions and to be curious of how others reached theirs!! Ut is actually nice to be able to discuss these things. 
Thank you


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## brownowl23

I do understand peoples interest in the tell no tell situation, and its a personal decision for all of us to take who use donors. However I do get a tad annoyed at the same people constantly questioning our decisions. 

The decision to tell or not tell is not taken lightly, but is very much that person or couples choice. 

Kirsty26 - your raise some very pertinent points regarding how children feel, which are great for helping others making the tell or not tell decision

Chris


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## wolla

Brown owl & skirtgirl - thank you for your support.

Wolla


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## Jayne

Ology - I think your thoughts are what most people go through when making such a big decision. You will come to the decision that is right for you and your child(ren) in time  

Wolla - It's nice to hear from somebody who has made the decision not to tell, and I wish more people would post as you have. If they did then perhaps those who have chosen not to tell and are 100% comfortable with this choice wouldn't feel the need to be defensive about their decision as support for both sides would be more equal. It helps people going through the decision making process to hear both sides of the coin. Whilst it's not the decision we've made for our children (although it was during pregnancy and the majority of the first year of our first son's life), I am wise enough to appreciate that every family set up, and the way people think is different and what is right for one isn't going to be so for another. I do have strong opinions on the subject but would never try to convince someone to do differently once their decision has been made. That said, I don't think to question a decision someone has made or to put across opposing views in a discussion forum is not supporting them or necessarily trying to convince them that their decision is wrong. I think it's natural for people to question decisions of others when they differ to ones own, particularly in such an emotive subject. 

x


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## Kirsty26

Jayne, your so very right. And I think that's the main point of these forums to be able to bat ideas and opinions back and forward and to maybe hear things you hadn't yourself thought of. I know for me when I first decided on the donor route I was adamant I wouldn't tell, anyone and have changed my mind so strongly in the other direction because of being able to discuss it and have issues raised I had never thought of. Even my parents who I really didn't think would understand have been amazing and said straight away "if this is a choice your making and are happy with then be proud of it, don't hide it be open and honest", obviously it doesn't need to be shouted from the roof tops or an ad posted in the paper, but yeah I am proud of the decision I made and want the child to be proud of who they are too, and I felt being open and honest about it showed that I didn't think there was anything wrong with it or with the child being a "donor child" therefore the child wouldn't ever feel that they needed to be a secret or embarrassed about themselves. Again I do understand that every situation is different and people on both sides are entitled to make their own choices for their own reasons, but I would like to know why people reach the decision to not tell at all, and what the believe the impact would be on the child, on both sides, telling and not telling.


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## Mary M

Evening  ladies I have just stumbled accross this site and have a question say you have concieved a child naturally and then decide on DEIVF would you tell both children? for me what purpose does it serve? I am quiet interested in any opinions on this matter......as I am waiting for DEIVF ET on Thursday... I have only told the closest people to me and two of those are on this site and one other that I totally trust.... so I obviously have an issue with it...any ideas?

cheers
Mary


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## Jane D

Hi Mary

I am a couple of months behind you in the same boat. Great to hear from someone treading the same path as me with same issues. I am not sure about bio daughter who is 4 and what to say to her.  We are not saying we are doing deivf unless it works. If it works I would explain mummy needed help and a brief explanation about needing an egg.  Then I would wait for second child to be 4 and say the same to them.  Older child would probably want more info, but I would tell her it was personal and not to share with the whole world and its dog obviously making a distinction about secrecy and privacy. Would tell deivf bit by bit as age appropriate.

I am not sure if the DC network books deal with bio siblings and their issues. I don't want to read too much at this stage, just take each day as it comes.  My counsellor placed emphasis on me loving and supporting a deivf child as much as my dearly loved bio daughter. She was also positive about me being a spanish speaker and well read in terms of Spanish culture and issues which I intend passing on to bio daughter and hopefully deivf child - our clinic is in Spain. We are going to Spain and using anon donor, so if deivf works, child could not contact donor at 18, which is just the same as UK deivf pre April 2005. I am where I am and because of waiting lists in UK and superior results we are off to Spain.  That is just how it is.  I do worry if a child developed mental trauma if they cant contact bio mum, but that is a risk I am prepared to take. A lot of adopted people have no desire to seek out bio parents, the same could go for deivf people I guess.

Wolla - good for you, you have made a decision based on what you think is best and  I admire you for sharing that with  us.  We must be able to speak freely on here without getting put on the spot about decisions.  Not everyone wants their deivf child to buddy up with bio mum and become best mates with half siblings as soon as they are 18. I call that wearing rose tinted glasses. We can only do what we think is best.  For me a perfect compromise is a scrap book from bio mum with a picture of them as a child, details of their birth town and details about their strengths, talents brief details about their ancestors, and of course any family medical history that may be important later. The child would then know if they had inherited anything from bio parent and hopefully satisfy their curiousity.
That is just my take on things.  No one is right or wrong.  Nobody knows the answer to everything.

Thanks for sharing your views and your openess, much appreciated. Mary, if you wish to pm me, please feel free, you are most welcome.

Jane
xx


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## Kirsty26

Jane D, I think the scrap book is a lovely idea, and had planned on same thing. Althoug I have a known donor I do not want a lot of involvment, and neither does he or his family, I am lucky enough that we get along and that he is willing to be known, but I am not wanting the child to want to be more part of their lives than mine, this is my child and no one elses, and obviously he is doing this to help me not to have another addition to his family, however I thought a scrap book with info and pictures would be lovely. I also think that sometime just knowing and a picture would be enough for the child, having sopken to some donor children and read stories it seems that this is the case that just the knowing was enough, that it gave them some understanding about themselves and satisfied any curiosity. I know that can't be the case for everyone though. I also think that as long as the childs best interest is the main concern and not our own worries then everyone should be allowed to make the decision based on their own circumstances. 
I wish everyone and their children and children to be all the luck.


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## olivia m

Chris - I am not judging Wolla, I am simply interested in the thinking behind her decision not to tell.  Those of us who have made a different decision are happy to share the reasons why in order to help others to reach a decision that is right for them.  It seems reasonable to ask those who have made a decision not to tell to share the thinking behind this decision too.

Jane D - Many donor conceived adults are not concerned about contacting their donor, although there is often curiosity about half siblings.  What does bother them is that they have been deceived.  Parents who don't tell need to know that they might have to live with these consequences.
Olivia
Olivia


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## daisyg

Hi Jane,

Just reading a section of your post which struck a chord with me as mother of donor embryo conceived twins from IVI Valencia:



> She was also positive about me being a spanish speaker and well read in terms of Spanish culture and issues which I intend passing on to bio daughter and hopefully deivf child - our clinic is in Spain.


I felt exactly the same way as I have a family interest in Spain and speak Spanish. However, I have not been able to find out the nationality of my donor and most Spanish clinics use Eastern European and other nationality donors as well as Spanish.

Unless the clinic have confirmed the donor's nationality there is no way of knowing for sure if she was Spanish.

This is something I have found personally difficult, as I would love to tell my children their donor's nationality.

Just wanted to add this if it helps.

Best wishes,

Daisy
xxx


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## LiziBee

I just want to point out that a 'balanced argument' does not mean you have to sit on the fence. You can look at the evidence on both sides but from it you may draw a conclusion that may come down strongly in favour or not in favour. 
Clearly Olivia has looked at the arguments and has concluded that telling is the best option (and I have to say that currently I agree with her) while Wolla has concluded that this is not the case. I'd be really interested to know why she feels that way and would like to hear her evidence. I don't see this as attacking anyone but I do understand that this is an issue over which people will feel strongly.
Finally, Wolla I would count you as having been not just a good but an excellent friend to me on this site and as a friend I am concerned, you have been so open about the nature of your conception can you really be so sure he would never find out? 

Lizi.x

P.S. as a young science teacher I once put my foot deeply in it during a genetics lesson, the pupil just could not have been the genetic product of both his parents. You never know just who may uncover the truth!


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## Dominique123456

I think in many ways I am quite lucky - I'm in a same-sex relationship and so there's no debate - no way our child would believe it was immaculate conception!

However, we have come across/considered other difficulties. My partner who will not be biologically related, is uncomfortable about sharing the details of the donor to anyone but our child. She feels that other relatives and friends knowing whether or not the donor liked football (for example) like she does would mean that if our child also liked football people would assume that it was because the donor liked it that our child did, when in fact it would probably be because my partner would have introduced the game at an early age. If you see what I mean?

We have been very clear to all our friends and family and that we will not disclose ANY details about the donor to anyone except the child. So everyone knows we have used an anonymous donor but they don't know any more details than that. This has actually been respected and we haven't had any arguments with anyone about it. 

Another very good reason for not disclosing any details is that people tend to embellish what little facts they know over a period of 18 years our child might get various kinds of interpretation of the known facts about the sperm donor. Let's say for example the donor listed gardening as an interest, would friends and family whether well-meaning or not, put extra pressure on the child to take up gardening? Or infer that because the donor liked to garden, they must also like to follow other solitary pursuits? 

We have such little information that we feel it is precious and belongs to our child first and foremost. Our child will be free to talk to anyone about any of the details when/if they wish. 

Just another note - I've also told and will be telling friends and family not to suggest that our child is somehow deprived, neglected or worse off than other children in heterosexual families that have fathers instead of two mums. From research I've done children in same-sex families are totally secure but can feel sad if other people impose an expectation that they SHOULD be feeling sad. "Don't you miss not having a proper father?"

Kids are very accepting it's adults who imposed ideas about what is normal and acceptable. Our child won't have a 'father', but they won't be deprived of any love and attention, or restricted in what they can learn from us. etc etc

How you go about coming to terms with using donor eggs or sperm isn't easy and my advice would be to be think it all through and look at it from as many angles as possible. At the end of the day DNA doesn't make a parent! A caring, loving adult does and children know that! 


lol sorry for the big ramble, just thought I'd share our perspective.

p.s. we used donor sperm but I also shared my eggs and luckily my recipient got pregnant too! I know that I donated a vehicle to enable her to grow her family, i'm not the 'mother' of her children.


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## Kirsty26

Dominique, a really lovely message, thanks for sharing your story. Personally I don not see it as an issue that you have not shared those particular details, at the end of the day you have put the childs interests first, you are telling the child they are donor conceived and will tell them the small amount of information you have, and have left it in their hands to later discuss those details should they wish to. You have also told everyone else that you were helped (ok I know you didn't have a huge choice being in a same sex relationship) but this allows no "slip ups" or "embarrassments" as it were.and the child will never see it as a problem because you are confident and happy in your choice.  
I wish you lots of luck.


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## Kirsty26

Lizibee, I too would like to know the arguments and reasons behind the decision to not tell. Many people have pointed out that there isn't a "voice" for the people who choose to not tell, but it does seem that only those who choose to tell speak out about the reasons and choices that led them to reach that decision! Although many people do say they wouldn't tell, not many go on to discuss their reasons.  So for those who have good reasons or opinions in favour of keeping the donor aspect a secret, please share your views as to why and not just the fact that that is the decision you have made. Although I have strongly reached the decision to tell, and be open from the very beginning I would be interested in the other views and opinions of those that are on the other side of the coin. 

Thank you


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## Mary M

evening ladies
Obviously I have decided not to tell any child that comes from DEIVF that there was a DE involved and my main reason is to ensure that this child does not feel different from his/her sibling and that said there is also the fact that she/he might go looking for donor whom will never be known to anyone outside of the clinic in greece.....and why create a situation for a child to go searching for a donor who clearly has donated for several reason and I believe that one of them may be financial....correct me if I am wrong but I do believe that payment is a stron factor why would I do that to a child of mine? why allow my child to grow up believing that she/he is extra special when all my children are special.....I would of course keep the door open by telling the child he/she was concieved by IVF as too many people are aware of that and I don't have any problem in that area...and should there be any genetic problems further down the road the door is open to tell about DEIVF,  but hopefully that won't be the case....and although I am having my ED in Athens the donor is from Poland so would I bring my child up with a sense of greek culture or perhaps Polish....let me clarify it would be neither this will be my child and will be brought up in my culture.......with my morals and beliefs just as my DS is at the moment. I really feel very strongly about this point, although I hear and understand what you guys are saying about keeping  secrets I feel that I have moved mountains to get to this stage and that any child that may come is wanted more than anything I want to protect the child and my family from any pain further down the road and as a mother to a 3 yo I would do anything to protect him from any visible pain, so why would I create a potentially painful situation for a sibling of his 'My Child' that just doesn't make sense to me. and to be blunt about it  I thank god for the donor, I will forever be indebted to her, however I feel that I paid  for a service which she provided for me, whatever her reasons were for doing it. but the reality is that at this very moment I have 6 embroys in a petra dish in Athens waiting for me they are 'ours' nothing to do with the donor so why should or would I want to tell MY child that mummy ran out of eggs and some girl from Poland was paid to give mummy her eggs and hence your brother is only your step brother and I am not your biological mother and furthermore you will never ever know who the donor is

now this is such an emotive subject and by writing all this down I feel even more at ease with our decision thank you ladies of FF you have once again helped me more than you know. I await the responses and please don't worry about offending me or disagreeing with me.....BUT please don't anyone dare to say that I will be a bad irresponsible mother...cause I have made my decision from a loving place and please pray that regardless of this argument/discussion that I get a BFP in 15 days.

Hugs and love to you all whatever your decisions are as we are all in the same boat TTC.

take care 
Mary


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## Dominique123456

Mary you have provided the best reasons for not telling. I think that is unique to your situation, because i wouldn't normally say that child is better off not knowing. it's a huge burden on you and your partner. I hope that no one else knows who could break the news accidentally or on purpose. 

I really wish you the best of luck


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## Kirsty26

Mary, thank you. 

I just had a few things, firstly I don't think its ever been a question of whether any of us will be good parents or not, the lengths we are going to ttc, the fact that we are on her discussing and asking for help, we all obviously want a child sooo much, and want to provide love and protection. I think the question is just what are the consequences of not telling, or in fact of telling, and how we made the desicion, which ever one it may be that we made. 
I also wanted to ask you about the fact its a polish donor, and that you won't be telling the child antthing had you thought about traits or "looks" that the child might have or "feelings" my grandparents are both foreign, my grandad being eastern European, my parents are both English, My mother however has quite strong eastern European features and I too have "traits" and certain ways about me that are very like my grandad, however we never had that much influence from my grandparents for it to be because I picked it up from being around him, its because its "in me" as it were. I must strongly state here that I do NOT think that it makes you any less the childs mother or the child any less part of your family and am obviously very aware the child will be brought up with your morals and ways
. I just wondered what thoughts you'd had about that side? 
I also wanted to say that I actually dont think saying something along the lines of "mummy had to have some help, and a wonderful lady offered to do just that" would be such an awful thing, I obviously don't think mentioning that someone was paid or those kind of details are necessary, so I agree there. However just as a side note, sperm donors are not paid anything other than travel expenses and so only do it because they want to help, I'm not though aware whether egg donors are paid or not?? 

Lastly I would say that in this day an age people would be very much less critical or judgemental on an issue such as this? Look at Angelina and Brad, their children are accepted as theirs whether they are adopted or biological, look and Ricky Martin he had help from an anonymous lady to have children, and so on. It is accepted, the children aren't treated any differently and the parents arent considered any less their mum and dad. (also on that point i randomly said at work to a v.close collegue i want a child sooo much i may consider donor (as at this stage only my family and best friend know) and her reaction was "oh we know someone who had a lady help them, she carried the child then handed it over" my point being that instead of the "what the ****?" kind of reply we may expect especially when i just dropped it into conversation, was not there, the answer was as relaxed as if id said id go stick the kettle on!! its accepted and known about these days the child or ourselves wouldnt be judged!!!!) 

But of course I think despite all our different situations and opinions on here, we all still support each other and wish the best for each other!! 
I miscarried on my last 2 attempts  , and am trying again at the end of this week , so I'm hoping that its a very very sticky bean this time!! And I also wish you best of luck when you travel to Athens Mary, and all you other ladies on here trying!! x


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## Jayne

Mary, it's good to hear reasoning for not telling  

Having never been in your exact situation, I haven't gone through the same thought processes that you would've done with regards to having siblings that weren't donor conceived. Your decision is right for you and your family, and I have complete respect for that, and would never dream in a million years of saying you would be a bad mother because of this. 

The following paragraph I would direct to anybody who has chosen not to tell. 

I still have such a strong sense that it is not right to not tell. When you are no longer in this world, you will leave behind adults who don't know where they came from, yet I, as a stranger to you know the truth, but you're not telling your own child! I can't get my head around it, regardless of any argument. Surely all of us deserve to know the truth about our origins. That genetic link has been broken for future generations, and they won't know it. What if, like Lizzy said, one day they have scientific minds and work out that genetically they couldn't possibly have come from you, or they work at a hospital and stumble upon their own medical records, or yours and this is in there, what if that's after you're gone from this world and they can't get answers from you? What sort of mess could this bring to an adult's life - this adult being the precious baby you nurtured and  protected for so long. Oh, my mind just goes on and on with these questions - yes, possibly some quite far fetched, but it was the thought process that brought me to my decision to tell, albeit a year after my son was actually born and the guilt of not telling him was already to much for me to bear. 

Gosh, it's such a huge debate isn't it. Really gets my mind spinning!    

Like you though Mary, writing it down, just reinforces the decision I have made is also right for my children  

Heaps of luck for your BFP. I hope you get your longed for baby   

x


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## Mary M

Thank you for your responses ladies
Jayne while I respect your decision to tell your son, these are only MYopinions
Your first point everyone has the right to know where they came from is it really that important? I would suggest that there are people who are well aware where of their genetic parents and wished they hadn't be born into that 'alcoholic, strict religious,dysfunctional, incestuous home' with parents that they dislike. they would have perhaps prefered to be from a more stable, glamourous, wealthier family' how important is it? wherever I originated as long as I know I am loved thats what is important!

Although you and I know each other here on this thread what do we really know about each other in years to come who knows if our children are going to meet and perhaps marry who knows whats going to happen;will my future child even care about the genetics of where they came from; and on the point of carrying on my genetics what if neither child makes me a grandmother? the genetic line is gone then? so we don't know.

I read somewhere (perhaps someone can confirm or prove differently) that although the genetics make up 70% 35 male 35% female the rest is socialisation, and for me it is the socialisation that I feel makes the person.....so my child will have 65% of us in there and the fact that I will be carrying this baby and given birth to it will make a major difference to our bonding so I will allow an extra 15% for that so I am allowing 20% for the egg donor, on the subject of looks wise I was clear about what I wanted blonde/red/light brown hair green eyes (height not an issue as DH 6ft 5 and me 5ft 1) so anything inbetween is acceptable oh and a nice nose (nose my best feature) I am of Irish origin so Eastern European look more like Irish than say spanish donors.

On the point that child/adult finds out after your dead and gone well I would hope that my child would be a well rounded adult and that he/she would have the 'tools of life' to deal with it and of course have our rational thinking, And know that he/she was so wanted and loved.

And while we think about this the old saying what you don't know don't hurt. How many men are there out in the world who believe that the precious son is theirs and never question it? while the mother has an inkling it could have been that affair she was having with Mr Jones? you just have to watch any of those tacky shows to see this has been happening for years.....

Kirsty- your point about having your grandfather's traits I would suggest this is because you know that your grandfather was foreign and that you associate these traits with his nationality as well as with him as a person; imagine if you didn't know? whatever the trait is its just an association...

You just have to read these threads to see that the majority of egg donors are paid (well the clinics charge a lot for this service...Yes I call it a service as that is what these donors do) of course there are some ladies who know the struggles that us with fertility issues go through and donate FOC or family members but on the whole it is a business...

Angelina and Brad are very much the darlings of the moment their are tons of people that adopt children from all over, however the attitude of oh they are adopted and not really theirs is well and truly alive read an artical on the above couple and it will 9 out of 10 times emphasise that Brad and adopted son Kai(or whatever his name is ) were seen boarding a plane...angelina and her biological twins were seen at so and so my point is that the fact they are adopted is always acknowledged. and as for Ricky Martin I don't know anything about his personal life but I sure would love to swing my hips with his...oooh

I really believe that it depends on where you come from and how you are brought up that will compound your ideas on all these topics but there you go ladies you have my opinions and I look forward to any more thoughts and ideas

Mary


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## Kirsty26

Mary, my point about Angelina and Brad (although lowering the tone by using celebrities as examples ;-p) was more the fact that its not critised, it may be talked about but its accepted?! 
Its out there in the world so openly now, that the child wouldn't feel it was an awful thing, in fact in many ways they would see how much you wanted them and what lengths you went to to have them.

The Egg Donor thing/payment was more of a question, I'm new to these particular threads and haven't had a chance to read ALL of the entries yet. So it was kinda a side comment on the payment thing.obviously using a sperm donor I know a lot more about that side and therefore find it interesting to hear and find out about different situations. 

Its such a hard yet interesting topic, with all the pros and cons, I think in the simplest terms, that baby, although ours will grow up into a person of their own, with rights and feelings and decisions, do we really have the right to limit their choices and knowledge by only telling them what WE want them to know??

X x


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## Mary M

Kirsty- I feel that is what we do anyhow as parents we make decisions sometimes good sometimes bad but I truly believe that any parent will do what they believe is right for their child.......
I appreciate you not knowing about payment for DE but the reality is that Fertility clinics/ centres are a very lucrative business thats what it boils down to business.....money making.

my point is that these children (adopted) will always be seen as different to their siblings......the word there is different...It comes down to my last paragraph in previous post it depends what your outlook is and what culture you are from religion ethical beliefs etc..play a big part.

Oh BTW I wish you the best of luck for the weekend...we will be cycling together and can argue these points over the 2ww to keep us occupied.


Now I must go to bed as I am 4 hours ahead of you guys and have to get up in 6 hours time


Mary


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## Kirsty26

Ooh yeah well I do sooo need to be kept occupied during the tww I am awful!!! 
Thank you! 
I too must head to bed as I'm up at 4.30am!! Yuk!!!


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## emnjo

Hi Mary

You posts are very thoughtfull, and you have obviously talked and talked about this. Usually I am am very pro a child being told of their genetic background, however, after reading your views concerning your baby (fingers crossed) I can really understand your logic. 

I am in a very different position  from you, as I am gay and so my baby will always know that we used to donor sperm.

I just wanted to let you know what happened with my cousins. They are 18 year old boys (and wonderful!) my aunt and uncle used a sperm donor as my uncle wasn't able to have children. Nobody in my family, including the boys were ecer told about this until last year. My aunt, who is a rather selfish women was always jelous that the boys were closer to their dad after their divorce, ended up telling the boys that my uncle wasn't their 'real' dad in the middle of an aurgument. A very selfish act on my aunts part. 

Both the boys wish they had never known this information - they are very close to their dad and spend most of their time with him. They see their dad as their dad and thats it. They couldn't trace their donor even if they wanted to anyway. In my opinion nothing positive has come from telling my cousins this information. Both of the boys are very mature about it, and we have spent many hours chatting it over with them. I think it would have been different if they had been told from a young age, but at 18 - not a good move really. 

Anyway Mary - I wish you all the luck in world with your children. Was your husbands sperm used in the process or did you use donor sperm aswell?

xx


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## Kirsty26

Emnjo, thank you for sharing that! I think it just proves that no matter how well a "secret" you think you can keep it will always come out in the end, and like you said its awful the boys had to find out now and the way they did, but had they been told from the start it would never have been an issue, so I guess it reinforces the fact that its best to tell, I hope the boys continue to be ok, its obvious that they have a lot of other family support which is nice!! And your right no matter whether they were conceived with donor sperm or not their dad is their dad, he raised them and loves them!! 
This really is a very complicated yet very interesting subject. X x


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## olivia m

Hi Mary
I too appreciate you taking the time to post your long thought about reasons for 'not telling'.  Just wanted to let you know that we have quite a number of families in our Network who have a child conceived without help and one or more conceived with help from a donor.  They are not finding any difficulty in sharing the information with all their children.  Difference doesn't have to be a bad thing, it just needs to be managed well.
In the end, the information is not about you, it is about your child...and I would say that they have a right to it.  I do believe that 'not telling' puts family relationships at risk and it seems a shame to do this when it is so easy to be honest.
Best wishes
Olivia


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## redcajun

I have decided that if our cycle works I would never disclose to anyone not my family not the family doctor not my children only 
God would know.  I feel as though when something is growing inside you it is yours.  There many children in the world that were the product of a one night stand and don't know who the father is.  I read an article about this subject from a doctor who says if you don't plan on telling your child how he or she was conceive than you should not tell anyone.  If you my friend have told family it will come out so my advice would be to read some of the written books and material on the subject to see how to deal with this.  For me I not even telling myself.


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## olivia m

Redcajun
I'm not sure why people having children as a result of one night stands should be a good model for how people using donor conception should behave.  Surely we should be trying to do better than this.  Your child will be yours undoubtedly, buy why lie to yourself about  how he or she was made.  Is this how good relationships are formed?
Olivia


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## Kirsty26

Also on the point of the one night stand the child still knows, they know that you don't know who the father is, so despite the fact its not a good or nice situation to be in, its still not hiding how the child was conceived!!


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## Mary M

redcajun from my previous posts you can see how I agree with you.I do agree that nobody else needs to know about the fact that this child was concieved by donor egg......see my previous posts

Olivia this is too emotive a subject and I feel that Redcajun has made a very valid point about one night stands- I believe that there is no study of the resulting children from these however I do believe that people go through life adjusting to the facts that they know.... 
I only expressed an opinion MY opinion here I feel that I do not have the moral high ground to be so arrogant as to suggest my decision is the way to go.........and the conotations that are suggested in some of these posts to me indicate a air of sumpremacy!!! that is not the way forward in a balanced discussion....
FACT : There is no Right or Wrong decision here; its whats best for each individual.

Now I am getting ready to get a flight to go and have ET tommorrow however I will check back and see whats happening on this thread....


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## redcajun

Thank Mary for the support and for those who attack.  The point I was making about one night stands is there are many children in this world  do not know how they were conceived or who their biological parent is.  Some adoptive children go through great misery when they are told they are adopted.  I just was given my opinion and the support to someone else who shared my same view.  Many children will suffer and many will gain from the parent they have from ED and it is up to each parent to decide what is best for their childs state of mind and theirs.  Don't be self righteous as some people in this world feel it is a sin to use an egg of someone else if your body has shutdown and can no longer give you a child then that is the will of God.  Thanks heaven we don't feel this way or we would not be here right?

Not once did I say you were wrong or right for not telling your child nor did I call any of you a lie.  Because the truth be know we all lie to ourselves and to others at some point so don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.


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## Kirsty26

I think the main thing to remember is that we are all entitled to our opinions and all have rights to discuss our thoughts and reasoning, in the same way that some of us are saying the child has rights, so do we all on here!! 
For me the reason for being here was to be able to chat to people going through the same thing, whether it be on the other side of the telling or not telling coin from myself, we are all trying to Concieve, we are all hoping to have the opportunity to love uncondionally' protect and care for. 
I wanted to be able to hear peoples reasons, whether I agree with them or not, because as I mentioned before there were many things my donor had questioned me about that I hadn't yet considered!! And therefore there may too be points that some of us raise that others hadn't yet thought of. But as you say Mary we are not here to judge, but to discuss and guide and "debate" . . . No pistols at dawn ;-p 
In some cases we may sit on the same side as some with the telling but not agree with the way they would do it, or their reasons for telling, and visa versa. 
No matter what you decision if the childs best interest is behind it then that's really what matters.


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## Kirsty26

Redcajun, just a quick one, I wasn't attacking? I hope you did not take my comment about one night stands that way. I am interested in both sides and the reasons behind everyones decisons, this site keeps me distracted and occupied where I would normally be worrying or over thinking things all on my own!! I do not necessarily agree with everyone elses views but I do respect that everyone is entitled to one! As I just said, we must have been typing at the same time!!!


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## redcajun

Thanks Krysty well spoken and well said.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I send Baby dust to ou all.


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## olivia m

Hi Mary
I'm afraid I don't agree with your FACT.  What's best for each individual parent is not necessarily what is right for the child.  I do honestly believe that 'telling' children is the only option that is right for them...unless there are exceptional circumstances, such as being brought up in a faith or culture where that child or their parents may be shunned as a result of the fact of DC being known or where the child has a severe mental handicap or learning difficulty.
I do wish you well with your ET.
Olivia


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## Kirsty26

Best of luck Mary! Please do let us know how you get on!


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## Kirsty26

Olivia, can I ask, how and when did you tell your daughter? What was the reaction, or level of understanding etc and how have other people, children and adults reacted to her?


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## redcajun

Krysty26, you are so full of self rightousness I shocked you would even consider ED.  I had a stepfather growing up and whenever there was a family reunion, It was always brought up that I was not my father child it hurt very deeply as that is the only father I knew to be honest I was a child and now as an adult if someone had told me that pain would be so servere when my mother told the world my dad was not my father I would have said don't tell anyone I wish I did not know.  My parents married when I was 6 days old so my mother could have lied, she thought she did the right thing but if you ask her now with the pain I suffered from it as a child, she and my dad both always say they wish they never told anyone including me.  Hindsight is 50/50.  Go tell your child it is your right but don't take your own opinion as the right thing for eveyone.


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## Kirsty26

Redcajun, I do not understand your attack on me or what I have said to offend you? I have continually stated that I am interested in everyones views and believe everyone has a right to their own opinion I have not personally attacked anyone or ever said anyone was not entitled to have a say on here, I actually feel rather hurt by your comment towards me, and think I beat find another forum to chat on.


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## redcajun

Krysty26 please don't go it was Oliva that I was writing I made an error as I was PM you.  Please forgive me and don't leave we are all frustrated and need each other even I need Oliva.


Please please forgive me  plus I am so emotion with all the waiting and PIO.


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## Kirsty26

Ok, don't worry about it, I think we all need to realise this is just a discusion, a debate even, and should not be personal attacks against anyone what ever side we sit on, we all have different reasons and values, and this is meant to be a way to discuss them, share stories and give each other ideas and help. 
I am single, I am doing this 100% alone, although I have a very close family who are fantastic I do not have a partner to ask their opinion, I do not know anyone personally going through the same thing, I am here for support if it can be offered as I know we all are. I have made a friend through this site already who I contact via email etc outside of the site, because we are in very similar situation, its hard its emotional, whatever way you are ttc, and we need to be able to share!! I am very emotional too right now, I have had 2 miscarriages recently, and this last one has confused me sooo much as I still feel 100% pregnant even now!! 
I think sometimes we do need to rant and get it out, but we must try not to direct it at any personally!! 
Thank you for your apology though, I appreciate what you must be going through too x x


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## Jayne

Hi all. 

Such an emotive subject   

Mary - Thanks for your reply. It is good to hear your reasoning and whilst my final decision differs from yours, I can definitely understand your thinking and see where you are coming from  Good luck!   

Redcajun - I agree. If you're not going to tell, then tell nobody! I think part of me changing my mind was that I had told a small close circle of family and friends during treatment and I couldn't bear that they would know and not my child. It added to my guilty feelings once baby was here. I agree also that we all lie from time to time, but on this one, I just can't!    Heaps of luck to you   

Kirsty - I'm pleased you are getting so much from the site. Huge   I hope the future brings you your dream   

x


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## olivia m

Redcajun
I can understand that you had a very painful experience as a child and this has understandably affected your view about sharing information with children.  This was YOUR experience, however, and does not have to be your childs.  I am sure you will go about your relationship with your child in a very different way.  This could include 'telling'.

To answer your question Kirsty about my daughter.  She is our second child by DI so we were already talking with our son about it when she was born.  The subject was on the family agenda and we just naturally spoke about it in front her from when she was very little.  There were misunderstandings (she thought we must have known the donor as we referred to him as 'a nice man') but we checked out her understanding regularly and corrected anything that wasn't quite right.  Like most DC children she didn't understand fully until she was about 7/8, but it didn't come as a shock as she had had the story being built up for her from very little and she accepted it as completely normal.  There were a couple of attempts to bully her at school (after she had told her class about DI at age 9) but they didn't succeed as she felt proud of her 'difference' and was not hurt by the other child's 'stupid' words (her terminology not mine).  At her own instigation she has done quite a lot of media work and has never come across a negative view from anyone.  You can see her 'photo and read her story in her own words on our web site www.dcnetwork.org - she's the blonde on the home page.
Her brother does not enjoy the media spotlight in the way his sister does, but he has told all his close friends about his conception and once again has never received a negative response.  He feels respected for having been 'told' but is content with his family and is not interested in his donor or half-siblings.
Olivia


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## Dominique123456

This thread is so emotive and interesting. I would love to hear more about peoples experiences both good and bad. 

Olivia, i read your daughters account, you must so proud of her!


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## Skirtgirl

Do you think it makes a difference whether or not it is possible to trace the donor?


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## olivia m

Hi Skirtgirl
Neither of my children have any information whatsoever about their donors, but that's how it was then, nobody did, so it was something they had to adjust to...and of course in the case of my son, he wouldn't want the information anyway (at the moment).  The ending of anonymity in the UK now gives donor conceived people the choice from age 18 to have information about their donor.  Some will choose to do this, others will not.  Children conceived abroad, however, will not have that choice.  It is possible that this will cause problems later in families when/if children realise that their parents could have 'chosen' to stay in the UK for treatment.  I put the word chosen in quotes as I know there have been, and still are in some places, long waiting lists for egg donation and it doesn't feel like a choice.  What makes me angry are doctors who gives potential egg donation recipients the impression that egg donation just isn't taking place in the UK and suggest they go abroad.  They are not qualified to be giving advice that is to do with the future of a family when their special expertise is the making of babies, not family welfare.
Olivia


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## Spaykay

Olivia - your daughters words are very wise and from the heart. I feel bad that my child will never be able to know about the genetic side of the mother as I am using donor eggs, but I live in Spain, and here it is still anonymous, I would have liked for them to have known as much as possible, and I hope they don't feel anger towards us for that decision. We intend for our child always to know, it is a choice that we have made for them and they have the right to know everything they can about there conception as would any other child. 

I respect each individuals choice but know and have convinced my DH) that our choice is to let the child know. Only my parents and brother will know incase of any medical situation, but then it will be up to the child to let anyone else know.

 to anyone taking this journey, it's not easy, but I don't regret it and feel honoured to be carrying my child.

Kay xxx


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## olivia m

Hi Kay
You are doing everything you can.  Don't beat yourself up.  I am sure your child will benefit from your open approach and wish to be as transparent as is possible within your given situation.
Hope all goes well with you.
Olivia


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## LiziBee

Olivia - can you clear something up for me? Exactly what can our children find out their donors under the new system (when they reach 18 at any rate)? E.g. Will the HFEA hand over the donor's name, last know address and date of birth straight away as well as any other defining characteristics, will they get a phone number or are there 'hoops' to jump through?
Cheers
Lizi.x


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## redcajun

Olivia,

I commend you in your attempt to an open communication with your children and respect your decision to tell them, but please rest assure while you are proud of yourself and your children have accepted it now.  When they reach their teenage rebellious stage, please be prepared as I have gone through it with both my older children.  The only thing I would have caution with telling the children without knowing who the donor is, is that you have awakened a curiousity in them now and can't supply them with the answers to the questions that will come up, like do I look like her, do I have more brothers and sisters, can I talk to her.  I read an article as I have be following the quest to tell or not to tell; It states that if you have no facts to provide riding your concious of the fact you used DE or DS is for you not the children in fact most children unless the have been told something by others never question their parents.  That why another doctor suggested unless you have all the information to provide the children, than don't give half the story or in most case when the donor is not know 5% of the story.  It is not fair to have someone go around all their lives wondering where I came from, who am I.

I am not saying tell children about their biological parents is wrong!  I am saying before doing it make sure you have answers that I promise you will come up after the children get older.  Thanks God that in some countries you can find out these answers and sometimes even become a part of the donors life.  For me however I don't intend to do this, tell my children or anyone else for that matter.  If I am wrong than when God calls on me I only will suffer that fate because I will be the best mom I can and will love my children as my older kids through all the good and the bad.

Take care Olivia and I too support you with your decision and am only offering my views for my situation.

Red


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## Mary M

Morning ladies
had ET yesterday 3 transfered....argh apparently fabulous embies.....80% chance they should work. YIPPEE

Oliivia-  FACT - individual inthis case means family/parents/ as a parent I believe any decision that I make for my ds is in his best interest and until he is old enough to make the decisions for himself I will always do my best for him. Olivia this is not a personal attack on you, however I get the impression that you have made a decision and no matter what happens you feel that you have made the right one and thats the way to go.......I totally disagree with your decision I feel that it would not work for me, however I can give you the "right to be right and the right to be wrong' without I hope being judgemental or self righteous.....I would and I am sure other ladies would appreciate the same from you.

Kirsty- having read your posts I think that your circumstances are so different from mine that in your position I would need to think about my decision differently- would I let the child think he/she was a product of a careless one night stand/ a failed relationship (fantasy daddy was a pilot...etc) or would I be honest? I was in your position when I found out I had fertility issues and was prepared to go it alone, and under those circumstances I would definately tell my child that he/she was concieved with DS and by god any woman that is prepared to go through this alone to become a mother produces a child that is wanted needed and loved....so I think that the child would understand. Kirsty I really wish you the best this weekend and look forward to the 2ww....

Red- what can I say I agree with you and I appreciate how strong you feel about this issue.

Now ladies I spoke to the DR about this subject yesterday after EC as I was wondering what her take was on it, again it came back to what is right for each individual family/parent....but she agreed with my decision for me.....now Kirsty she could agree with your decision for you and so on....
again this is not an attack on anyone but we have to remember at the end of the day we are all in the same boat....But I know that nobody on here (as yet)has presented a compelling argument thats good enough to change my mind or even get me thinking about the reasons why I should tell this child that it was concieved by DE. 
so I await your reply
Mary


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## redcajun

Hello Ladies:

MaryM-Bravo!  I could not have said it better myself, it is the indiviuals choice

Others- Best luck to you all as we are discussing should we tell or not to be honest I am 6dp3dt and just praying that it worked for me my husband and if it did not, this all will be a moot point so what I ask of you all from me and my husband, is your prays that God sees fit to give us a child and baby dust to all of you who are in the same boat with me and congrats to the ones who have already been blessed.

Red


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## olivia m

Hi Red
My children are well past the rebellious stage - my son is 25 and daughter 22.  They certainly gave us some headaches at around 14/15 but NOT to do with donor conception.
I have heard lots of people argue that there is no point in 'telling' unless you have all the answers.  I disagree and so do my children and all the other DC adults I have ever spoken to (and that's a lot).  To paraphrase one, they say that it is not the conception that is the problem, it is the deception.  It is not having information about how they were conceived and being mislead as to the genetic connections within their family, that hurts most.  If children are brought up from a young age knowing that they were donor conceived, they are able to adjust to the different levels of info available.  They MAY (but many do not) have a range of feelings about this in the future - and a tiny minority may be quite distressed about not having info at some point - but there is no reason why a strong and supportive family should not see them through this period.  Children and young people get upset about a lot of things and it is the parent's job to listen, acknowledge feelings and help them move on when they are ready.
As I have said above, doctors are not the appropriate professionals to be pronouncing on or giving advice about issues that affect the long-term well being of families.  One of the reasons that things are handled so differently in the adoption world is because it is led by social workers and psychologists who are properly qualified to know about family development and dynamics.  They understand how important it is for many people to know the truth about their origins.

Mary - Can I just point out that your son will not be in a position to make his own decisions when he is old enough because he won't have any info to base that decision making on.  Withholding info takes away his choices.

Lizi - Children conceived after 2005 with an identifiable donor, will be entitled to his/her name and last known address and date of birth.  The donor will be informed that a young person is interested in being in touch with them so contact will not come out of the blue.  We are currently lobbying hard for there to be a mediation system in place by 2023 (and actually preferably before then because the register opens for checking on DC status and giving of non-identifying info from 2010 for those conceived post 1991) so that all applicants to the register can be offered counselling and are given the information by someone who has, at the very least, basic counselling skills of listening, empathy and understanding, plus being able to advise on available sources of support and further information.  The HFEA has indicated that they are committed to this in principle, although it is not within their official remit and they do not currently have the funds.  We are hopeful.
Olivia


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## redcajun

Olivia,

First of all there were no donor eggs children 24 years ago so your children are donor children secondly everyone on the thread says your decision is your decision and no one is attacking that what we don't like is your self rightous attiitude is that your decision was the right choice that others should follow if I had to put my life saving on, you are harvesting something else that is hurting you about using DE.  Maybe you can PM and we could talk because to be honest the day you or anyone decides to have a child without the child permission(which is impossible) you have made a decision without them.  If we all follow your supreme direction we should also ask the court to have a pre-empt that says that once the child is older enough to understand that he/she was conceived through DE than they have a right to divorce that parent if they feel like they did not want to be conceive that way.  The list could go on and on and on if we are thinking first had that child rights should be considered if you considered the rights of the child first it is most likely, that they would not chose to be the product of DE in the first place and would most often want to know from the start who their biological parents are.

Now I will leave this thread because someone here wanted just opinions of others, she did not ask for us to change her mind one way or the other but to only give our opinion to help her with hers....my choice is not right for all and neither is yours Olivia!


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## Skirtgirl

Do you think you feel different about donor sperm and donor eggs? ie with the sperm your child is still biologically yours?


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## redcajun

If we and my husband or partner made the decision together to use DE or DS then we would not tell.  If I were going at it alone and the child was biologically mine; I would have no choice but to tell the child how he or she was conceived as I would not want the child to think I did not know who its father was, but again honey I don't really know as I have never entertain having a child without being married.  Whatever decision you make it will be the right one for you and your baby I am sure.


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## olivia m

Hi Red
I hope you don't go away.  I really have not attacked anyone on here and would refute being self-righteous as well - I suppose because I am in a very privileged position of being in touch with many hundreds of families and those who have a properly qualified professional perspective on DC families, that I am able to bring a view that is broader than my own personal perspective.  Maybe this is what comes over as self-righteousness and if it does I'm sorry.  Yes, telling worked for me personally but I also know it works for many others as well and I have also been privy to many very distressing stories about families who have found themselves in great difficulties because of keeping the secret.
I'm not sure if i understand the point you were trying to make about egg donation.  Are you implying that you cannot draw the same conclusions from egg donation as you can about sperm donation, and/or that I have a particular problem with egg donation.  I'd be grateful for clarification.
Olivia


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## olivia m

This is something of a worst case scenario from a DC adult who at 36 is still angry about not having information about her donor. I would suggest her parents might have handled it better. In the Guardian G2 today.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/nov/14/family-genetics

Olivia


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## Kirsty26

Olivia, I have read the article, it is very interesting, however I would say its not a particularly good one to use as it more suggests donor help should not be used at all, I understand the fact the way she was told and the way it was handled was a major part in the issue, but she also seems to have quite strong opinions against donor help as a whole due to her upsetting experience! Or maybe I have that wrong?? 
I would however be interested in more stories from people who knew and people who didn't and found out, and the effects it had. I have already read sooo many but I think with a subject such as this you often can't read enough.


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## Jayne

Hi all  

Wow, this thread is so interesting right now, with different view points  I'm sure we'd all agree it is a very emotive subject, and the written word can often be misunderstood as you don't get to see the other person's expression or hear the tone in their voice. Whilst emotions can run high, we must take care with the thread to ensure we don't get personal, and keep it to a debate. It would be a shame to lose the thread if it takes a downward turn  

x


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## Spaykay

Wish I hadn't read that article as I worry my child will hate me for making this decision for them   It was a choice between adoption in a country where they'd never know anyhing about either genetic parent or donor egg where they know the genetic history of their dad and have been inside me for 9 moths knowing my voice, smells, movements etc. etc. and are with me from birth so know about the pregnancy birth etc. I was so excitede about adoption but wanted to give DE one last try, I hope my child understands that I did it for the love of having them and not as a selfish act.  

Kay xxx


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## Kirsty26

Kay, I agree, it worried me a little. I think though the point Olivia was trying to make (Olivia sorry if I'm wrong) Is that the girl wasn't told straight away, was told in a bad way, and then never had it explained properly, I think in most cases of telling and knowing its done from, well birth really, as in never an issue, never hidden always accepted. And the child then never has any issues and in mossy cases no desire to know anymore. 
My opinion is that I will tell the child that I wanted them THAT much, that I went to all these extra lengths to have them!! And I love them that much that it doesn't matter how they got here or who the father (or indeed donor egg mother ) was or is, that they will appreciate I'm the one bringing them up and caring for them etc. . If I'm making sense! 
I know my situation is different from most people here as I am single and using donor sperm, so therefore haven't the husbands worries or opinions, but I think it all boils down to the same issues, of why we are here seeking others helps and opinions! X x


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## Dominique123456

I have to be careful about how I share this in case this person ever reads this. I know two brothers, they have different fathers but they don't know it. Their mother has sworn blind that it is not the case and they have the same dad. However, I know for a fact that isn't true as she confessed this to me many years ago. What is strange is that the one who is not related to her husband (the other one is) has asked her numerous times if there is something odd about himself, he seems to be able to tell that there is something 'different' about him but he can't put his finger on it. In part it's because he doesn't have the same strong features as his brother, but it's also the way that he always seems to be 'into' different things than his brother and his father. One brother is 40 and the other is 37 and this 'niggly' feeling has never gone away as he still asks every now and then. It doesn't seem to have caused him great harm - he isn't bulimic, or criminal or anything.

That's only personal story I know of the other coin.


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## marie10

Hi........ I have been reading this thread with great interest and I have now had 3 tx of ED,and by some strange fate of god a natural pg ended in MC  

  The 3 tx's Ive had 2 MC'S AND 1 BFN,  

We really for years struggled with the concept that we had to make this really tough and life changing decision, so we said that we wouldn't tell anybody at all and why should we its not anybody else's business, we really were in a confused and desperate situation.

We have now after long coversations and sleepless nights decided that if we are lucky enough to get a wonderful donor we will be telling our family, which means we will be telling the child(ren) if we are lucky enough to get that far, we are so fed up with keeping secrets from our family.
Another reason was we put ourselves in the child's position and I would have wanted to have been told, I would have really hated it if my parents had to kept something so personal about me to themselves and it probably would have eaten them up inside, And yes the saying what you don't know wont hurt you, I think in this case I am not so sure.
I thought I would just share that with you, but ultimately the decision is yours and you will make the best one for you and your family's.

Good luck with all your tx's and your decisions.

Mariexxxx


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## Kirsty26

Dominique, thank you for sharing that. I think that this really emphasises the importance of telling. It shows that even though no one has yet 'slipped up' and told him, he KNOWS inside something has never been quite right, that he has questioned himself for not being quite right in some ways. And without ever being able to pinpoint that, it must be quite distressing?

On that point, it must be awful to think that other people could know a secret about you and you dont, and if something happened and you did find out you not only would feel deceived but also that you were made a fool of (whether this was unintentional or not) thats how i would feel anyway. As we say we are entitled to our own opinions and rights so arent our children in turn!!? we we not once them? We all as humans get upset to feel we were lied to even about the smallest of things... so something so big as our 'being' could really cause stress and upset if we unintentionally were told or found out?! instead of always knowing and being comfortable with it from day dot!!

Marie, Im so so sorry youve been having a hard time of it. I really hope you succeed soon. And thank you for sharing your side. This really is one of the most interesting discussions going!! 

I was going to try for another insem attempt this weekend, however im going to have to wait until next month   , my hormones must still be all over the place after my miscarriage, as i have major waves of nausea on and off all day, the metallic taste i had in my mouth   during tww has turned into the worst thing ever, i cant even drink my normal cup of coffee it tastes like tin foil!!! And the doctor has said that a break would be best!! So im hoping next month is positive for me. 
But in the mean time despite being 100% behind telling, i am happily keeping myself occupied learning everyones elses situations and looking at all sides and reasoning.  

xxx


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## redcajun

Olivia-Took me a minute to get my head around your comment about not sounding self righteous because you are priv to knowing sooooo many families and professionals and I am sure that you think you have it all sewed up in your private small group of indiviuals but remember there are 6 billion people on this planet form different background, different religions, different minds, that means no one can be sure of what works it is really trial and error.  Again I commend you on doing what you feel is best for you and your children.  I too agree if you tell one person just one no matter who they are or how close you are, you might as well tell the children.  I come from the prespective of take it to the grave.  I would also like you to google if children from Donor eggs have a biological relationship to the mother that carries them, and you would be amazed to find that it has been proved in several studies at John Hopskin and in Britian that yes the child does carry some DNA from the carrier and that some of the Donor Children has even taken the blood type of the carrying mother. 

Take care of yourself but really Olivia, the decision to tell or not to tell is really up to the indiviual.

Red


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## Dominique123456

Kirsty26 - yes - I have felt absolutely terrible for knowing this thing, I didn't even ask to know! I would love to tell him and remove the insecurity - but it isn't up to me to decide when or how he is told, it's his mother's responsibility. The fact she won't tell him even though he suspects, is sad because I really believe he wouldn't be as surprised or shocked as he might think.

redcajun - i found out today (you probably know this anyway) but a child belongs 100% to whoever gives birth to the child no matter where the egg came from. This is good in egg donor schemes but can backfire in surragacy situations where a woman is carrying another woman's egg and husbands sperm - legally the baby still belongs to her even if there is no dna relationship. 

In terms of that article - it is hard to read in some ways but very healthy for us to consider her point of view on this thread. She is a donor-concieved child and has a right to have her views aired in a forum like this. 

Spaykay don't lose heart, not everyone feels the same way or as strongly, but it really helps if you are prepared and really listen to any concerns your child might have as and when they arise. In my experience, listening is the best parent tool  If your child has concerns, it would probably be enough that you have taken the time to really understand their point of view  

My DW said that if she found out now that her mum or dad wasn't biologically related she wouldn't care and wouldn't feel any less love for them. I'm not sure how I would feel, when I was kid I went through a phase of thinking I was adopted, but that was just wishful thinking as my real birth parents were quite ill at that time. 

Ok - i'm rambling!


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## Kirsty26

Haha dominique, your not rambling at all, I really enjoyed rading that!! 
Your right its very healthy to have read that article. Its one of my main resons to being on here, I want to know everything I can and be as prepared as possible. 
Thank you. . . Ramble away!!! Haha! 
Also very facinating about the donor egg, our bodies are amazing things!! But of course even if it wasn't the case I don't think it makes the woman any less of the mum, after all she is the one loving a caring for that child and bringing them up!! 
I think if I found out now out of the blue that I was adopted or a donor child I would be very shocked and hurt on one hand but then on the other I love my parents soooo much and are sooo close to them it wouldn't make a difference to how I felt about them (well asides from the being lied to thing I guess) but then its easy to say when you know its not true!!! X x


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## drownedgirl

Hi, not had the time to read every recent post in detail, but I do feel strongly that a parent should be honest with their child, even if they are unable to provide full details of the donor.

I have a 5 yo Ds already and I couldn't imagine ever deceiving a child, even by ommission.

I know that I am so, so lucky that our donor was a close friend and so there will never be a problem of our twins not being able to know her. I'm sure there will be difficulties for them at some point in understanding and accepting. All we can do is to drip feed the information to them and help them with the knowledge.

We have told our existing children, donor's two and our one, and our family and friends. It was not hard to do.

I think that being able to share the information is part of accepting the route taken to build a family.

xx


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## Spaykay

I hope we all make the right choice...this choice will only become apparently right if our children are happy. My hope is for my child to be happy, I will buy some books (recomended on this site) that help explain to a child why a donro egg/sperm was used and shows them a reason. I just know that I already lovw my child soooooo much and could not love anyone more (sorry DH, mum, dad, brother etc   but it's true!)

Kay xxx


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## ElsieMay

Hi

I hope nobody minds me joining this thread.  I have a 5 month old double donation baby.  I feel confident telling my daughter about the donor sperm and eggs but just wanted some feedback or advice on what Lana should say and the question comes to her "Where is your Dad?" from school friends.  I am single so there is no Dad.  I just don't know what to tell her to say.  I would never refer to the egg and sperm donor as parents, she has one parent, a Mum and that is me so I dont want her telling people her Dad is in America as this is where the sperm came from.  

The only thing I can think of to tell her to say is that she doesn't have a Dad and then when kids insist she must have one just tell her to say there is a man in America who helped her Mum get pregnant but she has never met him.

It has been on my mind a lot and I just don't know what she should say.

Also having told their kids about their donation what is everyone else doing about kids then telling friends.  My friends know but they are adults.  I am not sure I want Lana telling kids at school in case some of them tease her but I dont want to tell her to keep it secret or private in case she thinks I am ashamed of her.  

Cheers

EM


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## Kirsty26

EM, hi, welcome! 
I too am single, and going down the donor route. I don't have a child yet, as still tcc, but am too thinking of the best way to tell her/him, when i am lucky enough to fall. I have to say I think Olivia would be a good one to ask as although not single has first hand experience not just with her own children but others too. 
I have at this stage only told my parents brother sister and closest friend, but like you do not want the child to ever feel I am ashamed so will be very open when should it ever arise. I think something along the lines of "mummy had a very kind man help her so that she could have you, because she couldn't do it alone, but he isn't part of our family he has his own family. But if you want to know anything about him or his family we can ask him." would work for me, since that is the position I am in, the donor and his wife are amazing and allow me to contact them directly with any questions or concerns, they have made it clear they do not want another addition to their family as I have made it clear I do not want emotional or financial help or any active involvment but for me its nice to know I can have that contact for the child. I am not saying that is important for everyone, or for evey child to have, as I know my case is actually rather rare, as many donors are anonymous, or at least not available to contact until the child is 18. And maybe just knowing how they were conceived would be enough and they wouldnt want anymore information.
But basically I think If you always just chat about it, and honestly answer and questions the child has, you should be fine. X x best of luck to you x


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## ameliacooper

Hi ElsieMay

How is Lana - I bet she's gorgeous - Alexi is growing soo fast

As you know I'm single too - I used a 'friend' to get pregnant and he is not involved in our lives.  I have decided to tell Alexi that she was a very special present from a ... my guy - but won't be referring to him as her dad.  Maybe you could say the same thing that she was a present from a man in America ... type thing.

It's a tricky one and its on my mind too - but have decided to tell her really young and keep saying it to her so that I don't have the tricky questions later on.  As for the egg donation - Elsie you are her mum and that's all that matter - I think that if I'd have had egg donation then I maybe wouldn't tell ..... please don't crucify me for saying this girls - I've been reading the thread.

I just think we all want to do whatever we can to protect our little ones.

I'll PM you - and maybe lets meet with the little ones - if you're not working still.

Axx


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## ElsieMay

Hi Amelia

Alexi is sooo cute.  Meeting is a good idea it is always helpful I think.  I met some of the IM ladies last weekend.  I cannot believe Lana will be 5 months on Monday!  Her Baptism is this Sunday too.  Like you I came to the conclusion to steer clear of Dad as a word and say leave it as the 'man in America who wanted to help somebody have a baby and that somebody was me'.  I think you are right about telling the child early and keep mentioning it once in a while so they dont forget what they were told from one year to the next.  I also plan to take Lana to Barcelona when she is 4 to see where she comes from and hopefully we will still be meeting with the other babies from there too.

Hi Kirsty 

As you say honesty is best and I like the way of saying he is not a part of our family as he has his own but just was very kind and knowing how lovely families are wanted to help somebody else have one.

If any one has any other idea especially on the school situation and being asked about her Dad let me know!

EM


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## ♥JJ1♥

Kirsty26 said:


> My opinion is that I will tell the child that I wanted them THAT much, that I went to all these extra lengths to have them!! And I love them that much that it doesn't matter how they got here or who the father (or indeed donor egg mother ) was or is, that they will appreciate I'm the one bringing them up and caring for them etc. . If I'm making sense!


Kirsty I would like you to clarify who you are classing/calling the 'donor egg mother' - the woman who donated the eggs or the woman who has the embryos created from donor eggs ?

I don't think egg donors perceived themselves as the mothers.

I am in a similar position as yourself in that I am single, using a known sperm donor (a dear friend, who he and his male partner are both very important people in my life, and I have daily contact with them) and anonymous donor eggs from Spain. Genetically the child I hope to carry will be his and the ED's but I see myself as the mother.

I intend to tell my child about the father from the start, ie: Daddy etc and the egg donor when they are old enough to understand eggs and sperm make babies.

L x


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## Kirsty26

JJ1, sorry if i wasnt very clear, i meant I would only consider the mother the woman who is going to raise the child and be the mummy!!! not the person donating the egg, Same as the person donating sperm isnt the father. the daddy of the child, if there is a man in the childs life, is the one who will be raising and caring for, providing and protecting. I believe whether the child is adopted, conceived naturally or help was had from sperm or egg donors, the only people who are mummy and daddy are the people raising that child! X x


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## LiziBee

Would the notion of "I don't have a daddy, the hospital helped mummy to make me" be helpful for the children of the single mums? I don't know.
Lizi.x


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## viviennef

Hi, I haven't really posted on this thread before. I have two boys who were conceived with sperm from the same donor. 

Just thought I would share my experience so far with you. I have started telling Jamie about how he was conceived as I think the earlier they know, the easier it is for them to grow up with the knowledge rather than being sat down when they're older and dropping a bombshell on them. I got the book My Story for him and read it to him explaining along the way. I have to admit I was really nervous about how he would react, but all he asked me was if the sperm donor wore glasses as he really likes people who wear glasses!

We always knew we would tell our boys as our close friend and family know the situation and I don't think it would be fair on the boys to keep something like that from them when other people know. However, my dad is really against us telling them as he thinks it will upset and confuse them. He's the only one whose had a negative reaction about us telling them but it's a bit hard to deal with. 

I don't think there's any right or wrong thing to do, just what's right for you personally. 

Viv


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## Kirsty26

Viv, thank you!! How sweet of your son to ask about the glasses!! 
Can I ask a few questions? Is that book good? I've heard mixed reviews! And also would it be suitable for a single person? Do you know why your dad has such a negative reaction to telling the boys? Other than he thinks it would confuse them? Is it just now or does he think you shouldn't ever?
Thank you for sharing that, I'm still ttc but continually thinking about how when and what I would say! Had you thought about the school side of things? As that's a question that has been asked. X x


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## viviennef

Hi Kirsty - I thought the book My Story was good but it was really aimed at heterosexual couples. However, if you go onto the Donor Conception website, there's a book called Our Story which is aimed at single parent families. There are books to suit all different situations so hopefully that might be of help to you. I think it's worth getting a book as it's easier to explain things when you're reading a story, rather than just telling them out of the blue.

As for my dad, he just seems to think there's no point in ever telling them and that it will only upset them. One thing I'm worried about is that I've got an aunt and uncle who don't know about the donor situation and I'm not sure how they would react if they found out in the future when the boys are older. It will depend if the boys want to tell everyone or keep it to just the people who know. I don't want to say to them it's a secret as that implies there's something to be ashamed of but on the other hand, I don't know if I want them broadcasting it to everyone. Not that I'm ashamed of it in any way, but I don't know if I want them to tell their classmates incase they get singled out or bullied. 

Oh, it's such a difficult thing to think about, as if being a parent isn't hard enough!

Viv


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## Spaykay

Question about 'My story' Is it for sperm donor conceived kids or egg donor conceived kids as well?

Kay xxx


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## Kirsty26

Viv, thank you for that I will have a look, I agree that I think reading a book with a story would be easiest way to start it off and then handle the questions as they come along. 
Its a shame your dad feels like that when you've obviously made a major decision for you and your family and what feels right for you. My parents have been amazing to be honest I hadn't expected it to be so easy, although my dad did have opinions at the very start, but more about me doing it on my own than using a donor, and my mum said straight off, if you've made the decision then be proud of it, and be honest she said she was proud of me too, which helped a lot . Yeah the school thing is a bit of a concern, and also I was worried about local people, as where I live everyone is sooo friendly that they think they know you even when they don't, and so can be a little bit gossipy and opinionated sometimes. BUT having said that, I am proud of my decision, and although like you said I don't want to shout it from the roof tops,I'm not that worried about what people will say or react as I hope the way I handle it will ensure the child is proud too, I think I will leave it up to the child(ren) as to who is told outside of the family and close friends and handle each situation as it arises!! I think in a situation like this there isn't a lot more we can do. It sounds like your doing everything right though, and thinking of the boys.x x


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## Dominique123456

Thanks for your input viv. My dad is totally against using donor sperm. He made such a fuss and even offered to loan me one of his good (old and slimey) friends to give me sperm! He is from an era where genetics are so important and intermingled with class. I'm 100% sure that if i was in a hetero relationship he would be against 'telling'. But luckily for us whatever our fathers might think our kids will thank us for being honest and we'll see their views as old fashioned. It wasn't that long ago that unmarried mothers were forced to give up their babies to a couple who would then pretend no adoption had taken place. The rights of the babies weren't really considered as elders were the ones who deemed what was best or not. Your father might feel like this now but he will come to terms with it in the future. As i hope mine will too. As far as the aunt and uncle go, it's not any of their business and if they are odd about it surely they have enough sense not to bother your boys about it? You could wait till your boys are a litte older and explain that some people are narrow minded and are unable to appreciate things which are unique or different to help them put any negativity they might get with family or school into perspective.


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## Kirsty26

Dominique, gosh that must have been a bit awful, your dad offering up a friend!! But your attitude is great, and I think your very right on the points you have made!! At the end of the day as long as we put the children first and not ourselves or other peoples opinions, we can't go too far wrong!! 

x x


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## ♥JJ1♥

Kay My story is aimed as DS conceived children in a hetro family.  I think that DCN may have DE and double donation books coming online maybe pm olivia m as she is part of the DCN and will know- I did ask if they had one on known donor sperm and unknown donor eggs as a single woman but they don't- guess I could right my own
L x


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## Jayne

I found the My Story book invaluable for telling my boys. Would highly recommend it if it suits your family circumstances. There used to be one for older children too, but it stopped being published and I never got a copy  Really wish I had that now.

x


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## Dominique123456

And he said that i'd have a 'monster' growing inside me! He's not very enlightened   however a) he lives abroad and b) i think he's being a tad immature about the whole thing.


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## Kirsty26

Oh dominique, I'm really sorry!! How awful! But at least you can see how immature he is being!! Its such a shame! But really his opinion doesn't count for much in the end. X x


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## Spaykay

So sorry about your dad's atttitude Dominique...how wrong is he eh!!!!!

kay xxx


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## olivia m

Hi everyone
The book for older children (by sperm donation into a heterosexual couple family only I'm afraid) is called Let Me Explain by Jane T Schnitter.  It is out of print but the Infertility Network in Toronto Canada still has some copies (I bought one from them last month).  Email Diane Allen on [email protected] for information and prices.  It won't be cheap.  It cost me £15 in person, without P & P, but may be worth it if you have a child over seven, or are looking to extending information for your child in the future.  It is lovely.
Olivia


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## Kirsty26

Olivia, can you also recommend anything for single parents?


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## Jayne

Thanks Olivia. I'll do that and try and get a copy. I'm sure it'll be worth the cost. 

x


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## LiziBee

Jayne - we await your review!!
Lizi.x


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## drownedgirl

Some good books to suit many different circumstances!

http://www.carolinanadel.com/books.html

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/141204216X/202-8789369-0663826

http://xyandme.com/XYMe-Books.htm


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## olivia m

Hi Kirsty
I don't know any books for older children of single women, but DCN do one for younger children called Our Story (mixed reviews on FF, but well received all round the world), there are several in the XYand Me series given by DG in the message above (but these are about a bear rather than a human family and written to a formula that does not suit everyone).  Have you gone on the web site run by Mikki Morrissette in the States, www.ChoosingSingleMotherhood.com    Mikki is now producing podcasts, the first one being interviews with single mums and 'experts' on the issue of 'the Daddy question' which comes up much earlier than you would think for children of single parents.  I haven't looked at the site for a while but she probably recommends other books for children as well.  There is another US organisation Single Mothers by Choice run by Janet Matthes.  Although the laws are different in the States all the social, emotional and practical issues are the same, so well worth following up.
Olivia
Hope this is helpful.
Olivia


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## Kirsty26

Olivia, thank you very much, I shall look up all of those! 
And thank you drownedgirl too, again I shall check out those. 
Every bit helps. 

X x


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## Lesley08

Hi there,
We have only just got our BFP after having donor egg tx in Czech Rep. We have always intended to tell any child/ren we would have as a result of tx about their conception circumstances and in fact we are both learning czech and reading up on the history of the region in order to make this part of our family culture. There does seem to be a lack of support literature on donor egg conception however. Hope this changes in the next few years!

lesley xx


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## Kirsty26

Congratulation Lesley, on the BFP!!! That's brilliant!!! 
And also on the learning the language and culture, that's really good. X x


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## Lesley08

Thanks Kirsty its such early days though Im a nervous wreck!! Good luck with your treatment       

Lesley xx


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## marie10

WOW CONGRATS LESLEY HUNNI xx THATS FANTASTIC XX

Marie xxxx


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## Spaykay

Thanks for the book info drownedgirl!

Kay xxx


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## ology

Can I firstly say thank you to all of you for responding to my original post in such sensitive, intuitive and positive ways. I have been reading all of your posts with great interest and was finally starting to make some sense of my feelings.  However, having read the post from Olivia with the guardian interview, I am very unsure of what my feeling are now.  Yes it could be said that it was a good advert for telling the child as early as possible about their genetic origins but surely it could also be seen as a really good reason for not telling at all.  If that poor distressed girl had not been told by her father how different could her life have been?  Would she have suffered from the depression, bulimia, and insecurity that have obviously plagued her life?  Or would she have been a happy girl with normal parents who would then go on to have a happy normal family of her own.  It seems that in this instance the 'telling' was just as much a part of the terrible outcome as the manner of the telling.

It would also appear that because of this girl’s sad story we are now in a situation in this country where many of us are forced to go abroad for our treatment because of the repeal of the anonymity laws.  The telling in this case had far far reaching consequences way beyond this girl and her immediate family.  Now you could say that if her parents had sat her down at a younger age and told her then none of this would have happened, but 7/8 years of age is not that old, does a child of that age have any greater a grasp on the concept of assisted reproduction than a child of 3 or 4.

Surely there is still the chance that we will carry around with us the fear that although we have been totally open and honest with our child about the way they came into the world they will still reject us in favour of that genetic link.  Jo Rose is a good example, she is desperately searching for someone she may never find, has already been rejected by someone who may or may not be her sperm donor (not her father) and has ended up with an uncomfortable and strained relationship with the very people who wanted her so much they went through so much to have her.  Had she not been so wanted she would not be around today. Is she thankful for being part of this world or resentful for being born in the first place?

"It's not that I don't feel for people who have fertility issues. If people genuinely want to have a child and can't, that is tragic. But on the other hand, should you have a right to access somebody else's reproductive capacity without even knowing them, and with no thought for the identity of the human being who is produced?"

She says she loves and is loyal to her family but the comment above feels like she is harbouring a very deep seated resentment towards the people who brought her into the world.

Another concern is that if the child is able to make contact with the donor (and they are not rejected) what if this contact leads to more problems for the child and their family.  For example they come from a well off family and find that their donor and family are living in terrible circumstances, do they feel guilty, responsible, obliged to help? and of course the situation could be reversed what if the donor now has a family or their own, large house, boats, foreign holidays, plenty of money etc and you and your child lead normal maybe even slightly impoverished lives because you gave everything financially to have your baby, how does that child react to a situation like that, do they think "that should be me" It is potentially a terrible burden that we chose to place upon them?

I feel like I could go on and on but will stop for now and I think about it so much that I find it difficult and sometimes upsetting listening to the voice in my head asking question after question with no real answer

Again I reiterate that I do not wish to upset or offend, my thought processes were becoming clearer and now I am back at the beginning again


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## Dominique123456

Ology,

Thanks for your thoughts. 

I would like to raise a few points for discussion too, but veering more for the 'telling side' still.

1) All human beings are different, some children would be stronger for knowing and some might not, unfortunately we won't know what category our babies will fall into. But we know that statistically and anecdotally that most children are happier knowing.

2) To me 'not telling' seems to consist of two main factors - 1) that the child might feel insecure, upset or ashamed 2) that the parents would be more comfortable not telling, they wouldn't need to deal with awkward questions (from both the child and others who may find out), they wouldn't need to help their child deal with any grief they might feel, they perhaps wouldn't find themselves in a position where their decision is put under scrutiny. Perhaps as well it is about worries about feeling excluded by their child or that in some way by telling the child they have undermined their parental role. 

Although it's difficult to look at these issues I think it's important to think about them because the decision not to tell is a conscious act of concealment and therefore I feel a greater burden and responsibility on the parents in some ways.

Before I came to this thread I felt 100% sure that telling was always the right thing to do no matter what. But I felt different after reading some individual cases, where I felt the decision was made 100% for the benefit of the child and not because of a fear of rejection by the parents. 

Here's an analogy that comes to mind for me. If a man cheats on his wife but doesn't tell her to spare her feelings and spare himself rejection does that mean it is right not to tell? Of course this is different type of betrayal but the principle of what a person doesn;t know can't hurt them (or me) is still in action.

I think this is an example why children feel betrayed if they are not told and find out later.

This is just my humble opinion! Please don't be offended but feel free to pick apart


----------



## dochinka99

I have a dd whose almost 10 years old now.  She's a DI child and has known it from the beginning. Before she was born,  I was going to keep it a secret.  After she was born,  I knew that I couldn't.  I was too proud of her to hide anything.  I didn't want her to be ashamed of anything, so I choose to be very forthcoming.  Many people know her story or those who ask know.  The only thing that I tell her is that if she deviates from the truth at school- then I need to  know what she is saying so that I can repeat it.  We live in the middle east now where it is better to have a father at home.  I don't care what she tells her friends as long as I can support her.  She knows the truth.


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## Kirsty26

Dominique, I think you have made an excellent post!! It is so true, it doesn't matter what the "lie" or "concealment" or "withholding of the truth" however big or small, we all of us, feel betrayed or hurt or upset that that person did not feel they could be honest with us. It is therefore so much worse for a child to feel betrayed or deceived by their parent(s) the one person(s)that they feel secure with an trust implicitly. We all of us have rights to our opinions, on here and in our day to day life, to make choices to have our say to act in one way or another, to be the one person that knows everything about ourselves and to have the right to tell anyone else anything about ourselves that we choose to, why then should we not allow our children that right too? Yes to a certain degree we do need to make decisions for them and guide them when they are too young to know any better, but not to withhold such a huge things as who they actually are and where they came from. 

With regards to the article in the guardian, as I too early said, I did not feel it was a very good article "for telling" however, there are many children out there that develope eating disorders or other forms of illnesses and had wonderful supportive "normal" upbringings!! I know I was a nightmare teenager and had no reason what so ever to be so, my parents are supportive, loving, move with the times and never stopped us doing what we wanted, yet I still felt "troubled" from time to time and pushes their limits!!! Bit my parents stuck with me, and I came out of it. 
So as parents who are making such a huge decision as donor egg or sperm, we really should be prepared to live with that choice, to see it through to the end, to be proud of that decision and make our child(ren) feel proud too!!! 

Please do not take offence if you are against telling, for whatever reason, this is just my opinion, based on how I feel, and I welcome, as dominique says, anyone elses opinion and reasoning! X


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## Kirsty26

Dochinka, it sounds like your doing a very good Job, thank you for sharing your opinion, it always helps to know how many people are going through the same things. X x


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## stephanie1

Hello

Dochinka, thanks for sharing your experience, this is always nice to see how older children do. 
We have decided to tell and we have been telling many people around us so I would not James to learn from someone else. 
I got a book from France with drawings and it is called my story. I read it once on my own and the story is so nice that it brought tears. In a nutshell it says that mummy and daddy love each other very much and wanted to have a baby. To have a baby you need spermatozoides. Mummy and daddy tried and tired and tried, but it was not happening. They wen to see the doctor who did tests and they found out that daddy was sterile. Then they looked at the option, one of them was adoption but really wanted to have a baby that they see be born. The doctor told daddy and mummy that there was another option. Some people are happy to donate spermatozoides. Mummy and daddy thought about it and decided to try. This involed many trips to the hospital and one day the doctor put the spermatozoides in mummy's tummy. .....This is very factual this story but at least it simplifies the story and is based on a lovely story. 
I do not know how the story that th DCN network has but if someone is unsure how to tell, reading a book can also help. James is 14 months and not ready for long stories but I intend to start in the new year.

Steph


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## Dominique123456

olivia m said:


> Our daughter has talked to the Daily Mirror about how she feels about her dad and about being donor conceived
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/life-style/real-life/2008/12/05/i-may-have-been-created-by-a-sperm-donor-but-my-dad-gave-me-an-actual-life-115875-20946394/
> 
> Olivia
> [red]This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites[/red]


It a really nice article.


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## Dominique123456

For people that have told their children have they ever critised for you not knowing more about the donor? Were they happy with just a few basic details? Do you have any tips or advice about managing their expectations about how much information you have? 

I'm a bit worried because fundamentally we only know very little about the donor. His height, weight, basic heritage, general occupation and a few 'one word' interests. Now that I'm pg I'm suddenly starting to feel that maybe we should have gone with a donor that had more information (but in our view wasn't right in other ways).

Thanks,
Dom


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## SWN

Hi Dominique, I think that's an excellent question and one I'd like the answer to as well.  We conceived our twins (due in March) using donor eggs and my husbands sperm. I still have a couple of nagging doubts about telling them that I am not their genetic mother.  One of those doubts is because I can tell them virtually nothing about the egg donor - other than basic physical characteristics, which are pretty similar to mine anyway. The other questions are linked to this, around potentially creating instability and uncertainty unnecessarily -which can never be resolved due to the anonymity of the donor.

Advice / experiences from "tellers", particularly in relation to DE in my case, would be really helpful.

Kind Regards

SWN


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## drownedgirl

Can't help yet as our DE twins are only 8m.. plus our donor is a close friend so the problem of not having much info to share will not arise.

But I think all you can do is be honest with the information you DO have, and begin to share the information as early you can...so maybe get a suitable book (or make your own) and weave the donor aspect in right from the very start.

When my DS1 was 1-2 I often used to snuggle him in bed in the evening and talk to him about things like how he grew in my tummy... if you just take the natural opportunities, right from the start..  like

"There's a lady with a baby growing in her tummy... mummy was just as big as that when you were in my tummy... you grew and grew for months and months and we waited so long to meet you.. even before you started growing we had to wait.. did you know that in the end a kind lady helped us make you.. we'd waited for so long for you to start to grow but nothing happened... then a kind lady gave us an egg and that's how you began..."  and later on you can just say "We wanted you so much, and we couldn't get pregnant by ourselves ...we found a very kind woman who donated her eggs... we know this official information about her "x" and of course, we know she was a lovely person who wanted us to help start our family" and then explain about the law in the UK, or the reason  why you went to Spain, or whatever... and then just accept their sadness if they wish they could know more "We're sorry that this may always be a question for you (or until you're 1  we know it must feel very odd knowing you have this genetic link.. but you know we're yor parents and we love you.."


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## Dominique123456

Mmm, thanks drowned girl. That seems a very natural way to go about it, thanks for providing some great wording (i'll be back to copy that down!!). My sister-in-law is an illustrator so we're going to sit down with her and make a book. 

We're two women so we can't be tempted not to tell. I can see how it would be much more difficult if we were hetero - especially if we had found an egg donor that really matched my characteristics. 

For us though part of understanding that we can't have children without donor help, comes an acceptance that this is the truth of how we conceived. I still maintain that if I were a child I would rather know, and I do know close people who don't know they are not biologically related but seem to still 'know' which makes them twice as insecure in my view than if they had just been told and given some space to get their heads around it when they were younger and more flexible about it.

In the grand scheme of things having DNA from an anonymous donor isn't as traumatic as other situations. My situation was so much worse - my dad left my mum when she told him she was pregnant even though they were engaged at the time. Sadly that happens too often and was far more devastating because I acutely felt 'rejected' and abandoned throughout my childhood. I knew I wasn't wanted by him. Our child may not know their biological father but they will never feel that way which I am very thankful for.


----------



## drownedgirl

Dominique123456 said:


> For us though part of understanding that we can't have children without donor help, comes an acceptance that this is the truth of how we conceived. I still maintain that if I were a child I would rather know, and I do know close people who don't know they are not biologically related but seem to still 'know' which makes them twice as insecure in my view than if they had just been told and given some space to get their heads around it when they were younger and more flexible about it.
> ... I acutely felt 'rejected' and abandoned throughout my childhood. I knew I wasn't wanted by him. Our child may not know their biological father but they will never feel that way which I am very thankful for.


Yes, agreed!

There is a clarity with a lesbian couple, that a donor must have been involved. At least you don't need to agonise other whether to "tell"


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## Kirsty26

I think that the agony over whether to tell or not comes from our concern of what the reaction or consequenses would be for the child, or indeed ourselves and families, not always. Just the actual do we don't we, but the afterwards, therefore I would say it does not matter whether lesbian or straight couple are using a donor as the agony of "how" and the effect will always be there. Of course the choice is taken out of a lesbian couples situation since there is not really anyway round the how, but I would say the worry and concerns of conceiving a child using a donor are still as strong!! 
Of course maybe I am wrong?!x


----------



## Dominique123456

Kirsty26 - interesting, some people might think that we don't have a 'right' to bring a new child into the world without a father, unless we are adopting and the child would be much worse off without any family. Even though research has proved same or better life outcomes for children of gay couple compared to general population. Therefore using a donor could be seen as thwarting what 'nature' intended and maybe less acceptable than for a hetero couple. On the otherhand sometimes in a hetero couple acknowledging that you used a donor might be like admitting there was something 'wrong' with your fertility. I know my hetero friends did IVF and even though they got triplets while in their early 40s the husband didn't want anyone to know they had had 'help' as he felt people would judge him. 

Back to your point kirsty, I agree that once you tell a child they were conceived using a donor they will undoubtedly be asking the same questions of a gay couple as they would a heterocouple -like how did you choose the donor? what do you know about him or her etc...


----------



## Kirsty26

Dominique, yes your right, although unfortunately its small minded people who would come to the conclusion that a same sex couple would equal to the child being worse off or unhappy! It could go either way regardless of sexuality or whether your single or coupled!! And really unless those people are in the same situation, who are they to judge?! I wish you lots of luck in your endeavours and as hard as it is, ignore the ignorance. I find people telling me all the time I'm young and neednt worry about trying so hard right now, but unfortunately mother nature does not take age into consideration, once that baby urge kicks in!!! 
I think your point proves what we have previously mentioned, that a lot of the reasons behind people not telling us for personal reasons rather than thinking of the childs best interest, like you said because they don't want people to think there is something wrong or inadequate about them that they couldn't do it without a little help. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case for all who choose not to tell.x x


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## olivia m

Hi Dominique and all
DG's approach is certainly the one we recommend in DC Network.  The key to a child receiving the news well - whether there is a large or small amount of information about the donor to share - is parental comfort and confidence about the decision they have taken and starting to 'tell' early.  There is also no reason to raise the question of information about the donor until a child asks for it, and this is unlikely to be before the age of 8'ish.  At this sort of age you can use the kind of wording used by DG, explaining differences in the law and supporting your child in any sadness they MAY have.  My own children have no information whatsoever about their donors.  The have never questioned this, understanding that it was not available at that time.  Our daughter is curious and would love information and to have contact with half-sibs but has never blamed us for not having any details about her donor.  Our son is satisfied with his family and at 25 says he still has no curiosity about his donor.  Damage seems to be done only when parents are unable to acknowledge or respond to their child's feelings (whatever they are) because of unresolved issues of their own.  A parent who is able to be there emotionally for their child can help with resolution and integration of pain, sadness, anger etc, (if they arise) simply by listening and being supportive.

Regarding differences between children conceived from egg or sperm donation, there is no evidence as yet that there is any difference between responses from children conceived either way once they are 'told'.  The oldest egg donation children in DC Network are 14 year old twins who have known from very young and are comfortable in their family.  An egg donation conceived 12 year old spoke at our national meeting in October.  She also has known from very young and can see likenesses between herself and both her parents, understanding that some things come through genetics and others through living together.
Hope this is helpful.
Olivia


----------



## ElsieMay

Olivia

Thanks for your post.  I really hope when I tell Lana about the egg and sperm donors I can be as successful as you have been.  I hope by making sure Lana understands how much she was wanted and how proud I am of her origins and her that she will be happy.  She is 6 months old and such a happy, confident and secure little girl I dont want thhis to change.  I have a photo and letter from the sperm donor but nothing on the egg donor, different countries different laws.

EM


----------



## leoaimee

hi all,

this is a really interesting thread.

Dom, i just wanted to say something regarding your worry about their being 'enough' information about the donor for your LO. When i was going through the transition between using a known donor and unknown donor someone said to me, that as a parent there would be lots of things that i wouldnt be able to give my child, and that was an important part of being a parent. managing the expectations and the child's feelings about it. we know what we know about our donors. its a bit like we dont have the money for a holiday to barbados, or you cant have a puppy, or you wont know your grandpa because he died before you were born ... And just being ok with however the child feels about it.

one thing that i wonder about having a child who is donor concieved is whether she might feel liberated to just be herself rather than feel she is a product of her genetic history.

quoting olivia here:
_Damage seems to be done only when parents are unable to acknowledge or respond to their child's feelings (whatever they are) because of unresolved issues of their own. A parent who is able to be there emotionally for their child can help with resolution and integration of pain, sadness, anger etc, (if they arise) simply by listening and being supportive._

having said that i would like to know why, and the circumstances that made our donor, donate.

and also we travelled TO england so that our child could have a donor that she can trace if she wants to. in spain you cant use non annonomous donors ...

so i guess i just think if our LO is curious she can find out when she is a grown up, and untill then she has two mummies who love her loads, and grandparents and aunties and uncles.

and the other thing about telling your own child or someone elses is it really changes depending on how old they are. of my friends children who know about our pregnancy, all of them have taken it in their stride that our baby will have two mummies no questions asked. and the parents of our friends with 8 and 11 year old, the parents explained how we made the baby. i think the 11 year old boy asked but not his younger sister. he is much more inquisitive and when he met us three years ago, the way he went about trying to establish what exactly mine and my dp's relationship was was soo cute!!!

he said 'aimee who do you love?'
and i said 'lots of people, my family and friends, is that what you mean?'
and he said 'do you have a boyfriend in england?'
and i said 'no i dont'
he said 'who is the special person you love?'
and i said 'gaby is the special person i love'
and he was silent for a few minutes
and then he said 'you know in yours and gabys bedroom, which side of the bed do you sleep?'
and i said 'i sleep on the left and gabs on the right'
and he said 'oh cos i just wanted to know who had which lamp'

and then a few months later he asked his mum if we were gay. and because no one ever had a problem with it, it was ok.

i think as long as children feel secure enough to ask the questions they need to they will.

sex was never taboo in our house growing up, i dont ever remember finding out about how babies got made or what sex was, and my mum just said she answered our questions as we had them. she wasnt self concsious about it so neither were we.

thats my thoughts on the matter.

happy christmas everyone!


----------



## Dominique123456

Thanks aimee, that's all very true. I like the bit about accepting all the things we can and can't provide. That little boy was so cute and smart too! Merry xmas!


----------



## agg

I hope you don't mind me joining this thread but I am going demented with worry.  I am 7 weeks preg after DE treatment which I was very positive about as I have suffered 3 heartbreaking miscarriages but now it has become so real I am terrified.  My DH and I decided we would not tell anyone about our treatment and eventually decide later if we should tell the child (DH is against it at the minute)Now I am pregnant I am sick with worry about this..my family have no idea and I don't know how to cope with it...my feelings seem to have totally changed now I am preg and I am so worried this is going to come between my darling husband and me (it has just been us 2 for 10 years and we are very close)

I am really really worried about my mental state and therefore the well being of my baby.

Can someone please help.
A


----------



## olivia m

Dear Agg
So very sorry that you are feeling so distressed at a time when I am sure you were anticipating being overjoyed.  I think this sometimes happens when we have wanted something for a very long time and it suddenly becomes a reality.  I have certainly come across these sort of feelings before in both women and men who have found themselves expecting a child against all odds.  The feelings themselves often make people feel very guilty. 

It may be helpful for you to try and think how much of this is to do with the kind of changes being parents will bring to your relationship with your husband (and apprehension about this is very understandable) and how much is to do with having conceived a child with the help of a donor, and all the implications that follow from that.  As you are feeling so upset at the moment it may be very hard to know exactly where your feelings are coming from and I am wondering if you could make an early appointment to talk with the counsellor at your clinic.  Talking with a third person, who understands the issues but is not emotionally involved, can be really helpful in gaining perspective on what is happening for you.  If you had your treatment abroad then you may not have someone like this to turn to, but the British Infertility Counselling Association can help you find someone appropriate in your area, www.bica.net

Many couples don't tell others when they are having treatment because they don't want to be asked all the time about how things are going and if they have been successful.  It just adds to the pressure.  But not telling anyone else also means that you have no-one, other than your partner, to share anxieties with, and there is a limit to how helpful a partner can be as the issues tend just to go round and round without any fresh ideas from outside the circle.  I wonder if there are close friends or family you can confide in.  You may find that you gain considerable relief from the torment you are going through simply by talking with someone you trust.  They may be able to reassure you that using a donor to have a child is not only acceptable but also wonderful and be very happy for you.   Having a child with the help of a donor is not a shameful thing to do, but not sharing this information with others (now that you are pregnant) may be leading you to feel that it is something that should be hidden.  Hopefully, talking with a counsellor or other trusted person will help you to feel pride about your pregnancy and how it has come about.  This can only be a good thing for you, your husband, your baby and the future of your family.
Do take care and do join us at DC Network if you would like to have contact with other egg donation families.
Olivia


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## drownedgirl

Agg, we've been PMing but I'll post here too.

I agree with Olivia that a lot of turmoil can come when we're successful after waiting for so long. it's like a lot of things have been on hold, and suddenly lots of worries and emotions bubble to the surface.

I think envisaging becoming a mother for the first time is terrifying.. I also had a history of depression at the time I became pg with DS1 (unexpectedly) and I was totally confused and stressed. Hormones didn't help.. and the second trimester was worst than the first. I found it very hard to be close to my DP. We seemed to be totally separated by our experience of pregnancy.. it felt like it was all happening to me and he had no idea of the enormity of it. So I think those feelings are totally normal.

With my DE pregnancy, I had the whole first trimester (and a lot of the second) in a state of panic that the babies would die and it would be my fault. I think that's natural after multiple miscarriages.

So i really do understand how you feel, and I'd say it would be odd if you DIDN'T feel all that stuff right now. I very much agree you would benefit from finding someone trusted and caring to talk to.

Regarding your DE baby. I know a lot of women online who have DE children, and not one has any doubts or regrets the path they took, even those who were uncertain almost right up till birth. And having my DS1 too, to compare, I can tell you that my feelings for them all are the same. Admittedly I do have one child "in my image" so don't have that loss to mourn, but even if I did, these babies would still be my babies and loved as they are.

This is YOUR CHILD and you are its mother.

Be kind on yourself. You're pg after loss and IF and a rollercoaster experience of IVF and worries in the early weeks. Nurture yourself. You don't have to resolve all issues right now. Even regarding tell/don't tell. It doesn't have to be agreed by your EDD. I'd say if you want to introduce it to your child in an easy, natural way, you still have 5/6 years to sort it out with your DH.. who may well feel differently by the time the child is here.

Go easy on yourself. xxxx

PS have you told your DH how anxious you are?


----------



## Dominique123456

Wow, I can't add much. Great advice from Olivia and DG. You and your husband are very close and have been together for a very long time. Chances are that he will understand your need to talk it through with him and won't run off because you have a disagreement. Give yourselves lots of time and talk about it often (that's what I did with my DP) neither you have to make up your minds right away. You will be a wonderful mum, as an egg donor I can reassure you that your baby is yours and your DH's whatever 'help' you had. xxx


----------



## leoaimee

hi Agg -

just wanted to send you big cyber hugs!  

and also echo something Olivia said 
_
They may be able to reassure you that using a donor to have a child is not only acceptable but also wonderful and be very happy for you. Having a child with the help of a donor is not a shameful thing to do, but not sharing this information with others (now that you are pregnant) may be leading you to feel that it is something that should be hidden._

my dp didnt tell her father we were ttc for many months. she was worried that he wouldnt see a baby that we had using donor sperm that wasnt genetically related to her as part of his family. eventually her mum told him, and his positive reaction made such a huge impact on how we both felt that im sure it contributed to me being able to concieve. dp's family already love the baby we are having and there is no doubt in my mind that they feel we are all really blessed to have a new family member on the way created by donor sperm.

i really really hope that you are able to confide in someone and also seek help with a counselor. i h ad some really useful counselling for many months before i became pregnant and it really really helped me sort out and understand my feelings around using a donor and the implications of that (amongst other things!).

really hope you and your husband can find some space to talk about all the changes this will bring to your relationship. and you are both able to come to love and enjoy this wonderful time of pregnancy.

aimeex


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## LiziBee

HI!
Didn't want to read and run but haven't time to add much (we have guests here).
I just want to tell you that what you are feeling is COMPLETELY NORMAL, however that doesn't mean it is safe to ignore. Talking to DH and/or a counselor and your friends on here will really help.
love and hugs
Lizi.xxx


----------



## Shellyj

Hi all.  I hope that no one minds me "butting in" to this thread! 

I was hoping for some book, or website recommendations, on telling not only the child , but other family members about using a donor. Im currently 11 weeks pg with twins, we used an egg donor abroad, so the info I have on our donor is limited.

Have recently just told my Mum that we used a donor, and she feels that we should keep it to ourselves, and tell no one else!

I have tried to explain our reasons for not doing this, and was hoping for some written material to help her understand.

Agg, I understand the mind struggle you are having, I had a similar one, but had come to accept that I would only ever have children if I used a donor,,, I dont think this anything to be ashamed of, its just that it takes others a little time to adjust to the idea, as its not the "usual way"!


Thanks to anyone who takes the time to reply..

Love Shellyjxxx


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## olivia m

Hi Shellyj
Our Telling and Talking booklets can help with sharing information with family and friends as well as with children.  You may want to download/buy a copy of the one for parents of children aged 0-7 for your mum and/or others.  See our web site www.dcnetwork.org

Your Mum's response is pretty typical of an older generation/someone who has not yet had an opportunity to really think about the issues.  Given time, and the chance to read and think about why openness is important, I suspect she will come round to your point of view.
Best wishes
Olivia


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## leoaimee

hi shellyj - congratulations on your pregnancy with twins!!      

its a beautiful thing!  im sure your mum will come round when she has had time to get used to the idea herself.  

are you plannig to tell any other family or friends in the near future?

aimeex


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## Shellyj

Hi, and thanks for the speedy replies!!

I will look up the website today, and hope to get some tips on explaining the situation to other family members and friends, and yes we do intend to tell everyone closely connected to us of the donation.
Some people we may leave until after the birth,(fingers crossed)!

Many thanks for the advice, I think telling the parents is the hardest part, so now that this is done, the rest should be easy!

Love and luck to all,

Shellyjxxx


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## leoaimee

yes i think the parents can be the hardest!  im sure you will get a whole load of reactions from friends and 
family - and mostly positive!  

when youre gay and having a family you dont have the option of hiding the means of conception, and we have had some hysterically funny, offensive, and beautifully sweet and supportive reactions!

one person assumed the pregnancy must be the result of an infedility on my part!  

i have found that the more relaxed am i about everything the easier people find it to ask questions and to understand and be supportive.

good luck with the telling, and enjoy your pregnancy!

aimeex


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## stephanie1

Hello

Aimee, I would agree with your last comment as when I have friends talking freely I usually feel that the door is open for more questions! 
I have a very good gay male friends and it is not so easy for them as they can only go the adoption route. Not sure they will do so but they talked about it when I explained we were using donor.
Re telling people only close friends and family know. The rest of the world do not need to know (that tis the way I feel). 
As for telling the child, my family and childminder kept on saying that babies understand more than what you think so 3 days ago I started reading the story to James and he like sthe book.He may not entirely understand it but I feel so much lighter and know that he will be growing up with the story and understanding bits by bits as he gets older. 
We'll see
James is now 15 months.

All the best to all and happy new year 2009 to all.

Steph


----------



## leoaimee

steph - 

i totally agree babies understand loads!  glad james is enjoying his story.  (he looks like a gorgeous happy chap from your photos).

i was telling my friend's 18 month old baby that i had a baby in my tummy, and im sure she understood.

glad youre feeling good about starting to tell james.


aimeex


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## Skirtgirl

I have been reading and following this thread for a while. I am still undecided about the telling part. Simply because I dont know what will be gained from telling the child that I am not their biological mother. All I can tell them is the nationality and blood group of the donor. To me this is would through up so many questions.

We have taken steps to ensure that the details are not on my medical records and thaty no one in the family knows.

I am as I said undecided on this issue so dont shout me down.


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## brownowl23

Hi

Skirtgirl im not going to shout you down as its a very personal choice re telling/not telling.

For me I would hate my boys fiding out that they were DE concieved by a docs test or anything else they may need when they were much older. I think they would feel very betrayed by me and their dad if we hadnt been honest. 

I ensure even now that the boys know that they are very special and are DE concieved, they may or may not understand at this stage but at least they will grow up knowing and it wont come as a nasty suprise later. 

Its not what will be gained by telling a child but what trust will be lost at  a later date if the child finds out you arent their biological mum. For me I would be devastated if my boys turned thier back on me because I hadnt been honest to them, that would break my heart

I guess I am lucky as I can tell my boys alot about thier donor even though she is anonymous. I think that what you can tell them is not as important as being honest. Thats just my humble opinion though

Chris


----------



## leoaimee

hi skirt girl -  

are you pregnant or have you had your LO ?  sorry if im being thick cldnt quite tell from your info.

secrets often have a funny way of revealing themselves in the end ... i guess that is what brownowl is trying to say.

do you have some sadness or other painful feelings about not being able to have children who are genetically related to you?

are you a member of donor conception network?  i read an amazing transcript of a meeting they held where some donor concieved children spoke about their experiences.  it was a real eye opener.

aimeex


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## olivia m

Hi All
The transcript Aimee is referring to comes from our national meeting in Nottingham in October when seven donor conceived young people between the ages of 12 and 27 answered questions that had been pre-submitted by Network member parents.  They had a range of views on many subjects but they were totally united on the importance of early 'telling'.  Five of the seven had been told early and spoke about how they felt completely comfortable about their beginnings, despite having very little information about their donors.  One young woman had learned at the age of 13 as her family were splitting up and another, age 22, had been 'told' only nine months previously.  Both had had to grapple with feelings of anger, alientation and betrayal of trust and wished fervently that they had known about their origins earlier.
Olivia


----------



## leoaimee

i would really recommend becoming a member to be able to read the transcript *skirtgirl*, because you are reading it 'from the horses mouth' so to speak.

axxx


----------



## Skirtgirl

Thanks for you views, definately given me something to think about.

I have changed my sig as it was difficult to understand. I am (hopefully) 9 weeks pregnant waiting for further scan tomorrow to confirm all is progressing well.


----------



## leoaimee

well congratulationson your pregnancy honey!!    

what fantastic news!  everything must be wizzing through your brain right now!  its such a time for upheaval and adjusting etc.  i had some wobbley days in my first trimester mainly about being homesick (living abroad).


----------



## stephanie1

Hello

congrats Skirtgirl on the PG. 
I think that everyone reacts differently and if you have decided not to tell and no one know, as in no one then you may be able to pull it off. I know that for example we like to party in my family and ooops one drink too many and truths come out ( I am the worst). 
I also would suggest to ensure that you have no records in your house of the treatments. 
I have kept everything for the moment but imagine your child finding hospital papers with details. That would be terrifying for anyone to find this way. I had seen a TV program in France where a man in his 40ies had lost his parents and went through their paper work as you do. He felt angry and unhappy for finding out this way. 

Aimee, where are you in Spain, I love Spain, I lived in Barcelona as a student for 1 year.

Steph


----------



## mini-me

Hi Skirtgirl - a fellow abroadie!
We haven't told anyone about DE, my gp and consultant know unofficially but nothing is written in my medical records.  At first DH and I were not going to tell, as like you we weren't sure what would be gained from doing so.  Also our first DE attempt was through a UK clinic linked with one in Cyprus and we had to see a counsellor, who was quite frankly useless.  She kept saying our decision was deceitful without giving us any 'advice' on considering our decision.  As you can imagine this didn't help!  However, my position has changed, mainly through reading people's experience on here and any news items I come across and I do want to tell.  DH doesn't think it is necessary but is willing to support what I think.  What we both do agree on is we want the child to be one of the first to know (obviously they won't understand the biological aspect to begin with).  If it may be difficult for the child to understand, say if they were autistic (no idea if this would make a difference or not), we may have to get professional advice and may change our decision.
On the Golden Oldies thread within the abroadies section there has been some chat about a meet up, with one member wanting her DE child to meet up with other DE children as a positive experience.  As you post in that section, I don't know if you'd be interested in that.  I, too, used an anonymous donor - although I do have quite a bit of information about her physical characteristics, age, blood group (both donor and I are AB), date of egg collection and nationality (Isida use citizens of Ukraine as their egg donors) etc.  I will give my son any information he wants and he can use it as he wishes.

My first impressions of DCN were they were rather 'strong' in their views and I felt guilty for using an anonymous donor.  However with time and reading much literature, including an article about Olivia's daughter, I have changed my opinions.  For me, time was what I needed to think the issue through.

I watched 'This Morning' earlier today and Olivia, her husband and daughter were on it.  It was really good and informative in a very positive way - I am much more positive about having a DE conceived child now.

Hope this helps.
Love mini-me
xxx


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## drownedgirl

mini-me said:


> I watched 'This Morning' earlier today and Olivia, her husband and daughter were on it. It was really good and informative in a very positive way - I am much more positive about having a DE conceived child now.


Shame I missed that!

http://www.itv.com/Lifestyle/ThisMorning/features/SpermDonation123/default.html


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## leoaimee

steph and skirtgirl 

gosh that poor man in france how awful.  

do you think you would feel the same if you adopted a child?  people used to not tell their children they were adopted untill they were older and it normally was quite traumatic ... children who always know they were adopted dont ever experience any shock and normally accomodate the information easily into their self identity.

(i live in the south of spain near gibraltar, dp is gibraltarian - i love barcelona too).

hi mini-me

sometimes it takes a while to really work things out doesnt it?
i thought for a long time that i wanted to have a family with a known donor, but after a long process i managed to realise for us that wouldnt be the best thing, and would have created a really complicated family dynamic for our child to grow up in.  but was really pleased to be able to use a non-annonomous donor.

i guess i feel strongly about having honesty in families.  and i sometimes stuggle to understand the need for a secret if their is no 'shame' in using a donor.  but after being on FF i realise that alot of people do find it hard to talk about their TTC experiences and about using donor eggs or sperm.

oh i wish id seen this morning this morning!  but i was at work, and i dont often watch anyway.

Olivia - did it go well?  were you pleased with how the interview went?


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## Dominique123456

Hey Mini-me - I missed that, I hope they post the interview on the web somewhere.

I agree that time is a big factor in coming to a decision that's right for your family. It takes a while to get used all the best and worst case scenarios of both telling or not telling and sometimes sleeping on it can just make it clearer. 

I panic about being a same-sex family sometimes and worry what our child and or other people will think of that. But then I remind myself of just how strong the family bonds are - and they aren't based on any arbitrary rules. All around the world there are family units made up of all different types of connections (family, friends, spiritual leaders etc) but are equally valid and the children love these families and vice-versa. It's about who is providing love, security and nourishment that really counts.

My view has always been to tell for all the reasons outlined before. I just can't see how it benefits the child NOT to know. Kids are extremely flexible especially if you explain things when they are young and people would be amazed at easily they come to understand but not judge it.


----------



## drownedgirl

aimeegaby said:


> oh i wish id seen this morning this morning! but i was at work, and i dont often watch anyway.
> 
> Olivia - did it go well? were you pleased with how the interview went?


Maybe someone saved it and could put it on you tube?


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## leoaimee

yes lets hope so drownedgirl ... maybe someone *will* put it on youtube

hay Dom - just on your point about what makes a family - i don't know if this is going off the thread too much - but i watched the movie Australia last night, and one of the main themes was regarding the truth that is LOVE that makes a family rather than blood. although their is a strong message about the power of cultural and ancestral energy. it was a great movie - I loved it.


----------



## olivia m

So glad you found our interview on This Morning helpful Mini-me.  We were very pleased with the way it went and hugely proud of Susannah who spoke so thoughtfully about her origins and so lovingly about her dad.  Unfortunately we are completely technologically incompetent and did not even record the interview for home viewing, let alone posting on You Tube.  Just possible our eldest son, a techno wizard, might have done but as it is his first day in a new job, I doubt it.  Let's hope someone has saved it somewhere!
Just a small point, on the web site linked by Drowned Girl, it says that we 'told' Susannah when she was eight.  Actually we started telling her much earlier than that...it was only at around age eight that she started to really understand what we were talking about.  At approximately this sort of age children make a leap in brain development which allows them to think and understand in more mature ways.  We find within the Network that this is the age at which children may ask quite a lot of questions...our Telling and Talking booklet 8-11 can help with this.
Mini-me, just to address the issue of a child with autism and whether it would be appropriate to 'tell' them, I think something like this would have to be finely judged for each individual child.  My own feeling is that a child with a very serious learning or developmental issue would find great difficulty in understanding donor conception, and indeed might find a limited explanation quite worrying, so this might be one of the very few circumstances under which it would be in the child's best interests not to tell.  But there are those in the disability rights lobby who might disagree with this.
Best wishes to all
Olivia


----------



## Bluebottle

Hello,

Had I have known this was on I would dearly loved to have seen this interview. Although we are not going down the donor route yet, we are quite likely to have to seriously consider this option (see my signature below). I won't go into all my history here, but I just wanted to let you all know that I have emailed This Morning to see if it is possible to view a copy of the video anywhere. I will let you know if I get a response.

To add my two pence to this discussion (as I have hijacked this thread temporarily!) - I very strongly feel that we would tell our child(ren) about their origins as early as possible. The idea being that they would grow up just 'knowing' and hopefully have no clear recollection about being told at any one point. It would just be part of who they are as they grow up.

Anyway - sorry to butt in! 

Take care everyone,

BBxx


----------



## stephanie1

Hi

Aimee south of Spain, nice!
For adoption I would have behaved the same and told the child too.

Olivia, was it you on TV this morning?
I saw it while sitting on the dentist chair and could not hear all of the conversation. I checkecd on the TV website and was disapointed that they had not uploaded that section to watch it. 
If it was you may be you could contact them to ask them to post it on their site. Please 
Rosannah seemed very confident and happy. (and very good looking too)

Thanks

Steph


----------



## leoaimee

hay *bluebottle* - i think this thread is pretty open to people jumping in and out! so HI  
looks like you have been going through a tough time with your diagnosis.  
good luck with 2009 and ttc this year and heres to a beautiful BFP for you and DH.

good luck with This Morning.

I might try and old colleague and see if they recorded it ....

ill let you all know.

aimeex


----------



## Bloofuss

Hi ladies

Just stumbled upon this site and I think it is amazing and I am SO hoping that I can join you guys.  Ever since I had had to go down the option/route of DE I have been in turmoil but with a lot of support/councelling I finally came round to the idea as the longing to be a mum outweighed everything else.  I guess as it was originally male factor and THEN I was a poor responder so ICSI not available to us due to this and DE was only option I felt so wronged so disappointed and so hated my defunct body!!   I blamed DP for a while as if DE was successful it would STILL biologically be HIS child as I say we went thourgh such a rollercoaster ride as Im sure many of you will be aware of - Anyhoo - silver lining is after our first DE transfer I am now pregnant (29 weeks) and should be elated right........... wrong as much as it was a shock and don't get me wrong I am happy my feelings/emotions are ALL over the place with regards it being a DE.  I am SO glad that I am not the only one as sometimes I feel so guilty having these thoughts/feelings as I know how may women who kill to be in my shoes - but I just can't help the doubts that are running thourgh my mind - so hope you wont mind me nipping your heads ladies for any thoughts/suggests on how to help me get torugh this??

Thanks
Bloo xx


----------



## leoaimee

hay bloo - im sure ive spied you on other threads!  

im really sorry to hear you have been stuggling with the DE part of your pregnancy and conception  .  what you say seems so normal and natural.

can you be more specific about the doubts you are feeling?

aimeex


----------



## Bloofuss

Hi aimee yeah think I have seen you as well - thanks for replying to the "mad" woman.  

I have been really beating myself up lately about being pregnant although I should be happy/extatic about it I find myself having deep dark thoughts about rejecting the baby or the baby rejecting me - I just can't seem to get my head around he/she not being biologically mine.  Some days I am fine and love bubba to bits and often speak to him/her and find myself getting excited about being a mum and then at other times (god forbid) I find myself not wanting to be pregnant  .  I am just so scared of what the future holds - DP always getting on andme for thinking so FAR ahead and that we should just cross bridges when they appear but I am such a worry wart that just thinks the worse ALL the time  

I have spoken to a few others who have assured me that they fell in love instantly with their babies and not a thought crossed their mind of them not being biologically theirs - but it is just something that I am struggling to come to terms with still.

Bloo xx


----------



## drownedgirl

Very interesting blog by woman who explores her feelings and doubts while pg via de

esp in this post - http://infertilityadventure.blogspot.com/2007/06/views-from-this-side-of-using-donor.html and here is a list of her posts on the DE topic http://infertilityadventure.blogspot.com/search/label/DE (click on *newer posts * at the bottom, to see more)

/links


----------



## leoaimee

oh bloo - youre not the mad woman!!     

you know i think its normal to have doubts about how we will feel about our babies and how they will feel about us whether they are DE concieved or not.
and to have doubts and worries about whether we will be good parents and manage and cope etc.

i have had similar conversations with my dp regarding things she considered to be 'in the future' that she didnt think were important to discuss at the time, for example i aggitated over what our mummy names would be.  but there was an underlying fear that i had that she wouldnt be able to publicly declare her 'parentness' as she wasnt biologically related to our baby.  Subsequently she has had a lot of reasurrance of support from her parents and this has made us both feel that the baby is really welcomed by our families even though dp's side arent going to be genetically related.  suddenly the mummy names isnt important to me.

do you worry about telling your LO about the way he/she was concieved?

also it might be important to remember that some 'rejection' is a normal part of child development, it allows children to feel more secure and contented and it manifests differently at different ages.  

have you been able to chat to a counsellor regarding your feelings?
is there a counsellor you could access through your clinic?

aimeex


----------



## Bloofuss

Hi Aimee
Again thanks for your reply.  Like your DP my family has been great and are really accepting of the fact that it is a DE they "just don't care how it was conceived and see it as MY baby" they have been a big help/support to me - esp my younger sis (22) when I spoke to her about it and how she felt she was like "it's only a littte egg" lol  

I did see a councellor who was excellent and helped me lot with coming to terms with the fact of "losing" my own eggs as I think thats what was they hardest thing I have had to accept (and I m still accepting) as I sometimes think if DP was producing sperm would we have "conceived" naturally or would of I STILL had a promblem - things like these I still think about that I know I can do nothing about!!

DP and I want to tell our child how they were conceived me more so as young as possible than DP he is scared of them being made fun of etc at school for being "different" - he is also a more private person than I am - I hate secrets and have told most people close to me of how my pregnancy came about.

Glad I have someone to talk to - even tho our situations are slightly different im sure the thoughts/emotions are the same.

Bloo x


----------



## leoaimee

hi bloo 

it sounds like you have a great family!  

There are so many unanswereable questions in life arent there?

have you read drowned girls blog link?  i have just read them, and thought they were beautifully well written and really cover lots of complex feelings that its only normal to have.

i have to remind myself that i dont know exactly how dp feels not being genetically related to our baby.  she didnt really ever think she would be a mother who carries a child in pregnancy and gave birth, and she thinks donating her eggs to me is too much of a palava.  but i know that some how it makes a difference that if people tell her our baby looks like her, it wont be because of the family genetic reasons ... and i wont know how that feels.

reading the blog drowned girl posted made me remember that when we have to let go of an idea of how the future would be, and griev for something its going to take time, and there is no rushing it.  

re your dh worrying that children might be unkind to your LO because he/she is different ... its very unlikely that your son or daughter would tell anyone unless they felt very happy and confident todo so.

and also children have to learn to deal with differentness all the time ... its just part of growing up.  can be painful at times, but its ok.

axxx


----------



## drownedgirl

Some more posts from kami's blog

http://infertilityadventure.blogspot.com/2007/09/dose-of-reality.html
http://infertilityadventure.blogspot.com/2007/10/no-words.html
http://infertilityadventure.blogspot.com/2007/12/for-record.html
http://infertilityadventure.blogspot.com/2007/12/happy-winter-solstice-eve.html
http://infertilityadventure.blogspot.com/2007/12/still-on-if-roller-coaster.html
http://infertilityadventure.blogspot.com/2008/01/how-do-you-let-go-of-dream.html
http://infertilityadventure.blogspot.com/2008/01/letting-go-part-2.html
http://infertilityadventure.blogspot.com/2008/03/ob-appointment-6-28-weeks-1-day.html
http://infertilityadventure.blogspot.com/2008/05/some-posts-i-have-been-meaning-to-write.html
http://infertilityadventure.blogspot.com/2008/06/hello-lb-i-think-im-ready.html
http://infertilityadventure.blogspot.com/2008/06/moving-forward.html
http://infertilityadventure.blogspot.com/2008/07/relapse.html

/links


----------



## Bloofuss

Hi Aimee/Drowned girl

yeah I read the blog - thanks for that - I found myself agreeing with her such a lot and even read it out loud to DP to try and explain how I am feeling.  Will read throught he other blogs.  Just so good to not feel so alone or isolated with your thoughts/feelings - sometmes you feel like such and ailen going through this (i.e DE pregnancy) as it's not something you hear disussed everyday??

Bloo x


----------



## stephanie1

Hi Bloo

I cannot help much as I had DS. But the only thing I can say is when DH and I talked about silly Mr & Mrs question that was on TV I asked him what was his best day ever. And I tell you my labour and post labour was a trauma (28 weeks labour - the easy part and then 4hours of theatre dealing with reatined placenta for nothing as it stayed in which gave 4 hours of worry to DH). Well his best day ever was James's birth day. So I hope this would help.

Steph


----------



## Lisadaniella

Hi girls,
Have been reading this thread avidly as we are 6 months pregnant with donor embryos.  We are planning to tell the child and our family and close friends already know about our journey and how this baby has come about.

I have a question for you all and I am hoping you can help me.  I had always thought that would would not really be telling anyone else until we told the child about their bio origins but my partner has said he would just like to tell people openly if the issue comes up (i.e. he envisages that it will come up when people comment as say the baby doesn't really look like him/me or our bio son who is 4).  This is likely as the donor couple are not very similar to us in appearance.  My partner would just like to respond with the truth which would mean that our child's bio origins would potentially be known by pretty much everyone (as I imagine people would talk).  Part of me is not bothered too much by this but I am very concerned to make sure our baby/child is not adversely affected. 

I'd welcome anyone's opinions.


----------



## Dominique123456

Lisadaniela - i can see an upside too, if people already know then there'll be less pressure on bubba to explain or tell people. Maybe there's a middle area too, if people comment who aren't close to your family and are just being a bit rude or nosey (i'd never dream of saying to parents 'wow your kid looks so different to you') then you can just say 'yes amazing isn't it' and leave it at that. I can understand why your dh might want to tell family and close friends but there might be a danger that telling every curious person might feel to the child that you're reinforcing the difference. I'm just thinking outloud. It used to really hurt my feelings when my step.grandparents would correct people who assumed i was biological and say 'this is our step.granddaughter' possibly they were just trying to be honest. To me it felt like i was being disowned. There's a tricky balance to be had isn't there? To keep an honest approach but remember to also reinforce how biology doesn't affect how loved or wanted they are. If you tell or correct others too much that message can feel like a contradiction. I'd worry that telling people who aren't 'briefed' first might open up some ignorance about how to treat the child. We're lesbians so everyone will know pretty much!


----------



## Bloofuss

Lisadaniela 

Morning I am very much of the same opinion as you partner as in I don't want any secreats and have always wanted to tell the truth about how bubba "came about" but my DP is a very private person and is really uncomfortable with people knowing "our business" - I think we have came to a happy medium whereas I have told those I can trust to understand the information and some other's we may/may not tell depending on how they will digest this info - I think it is difficult as people are So niave about the subject as it isn't really popping up everywhere - but more so now I think and in our babies futures as the wonder's of science are getting better and better each year and SO many couple are conceiving now due to these methods that it wont see (hopfully) so ailien anymore and will just be common practice??

To tell you the truth those that I have told have handled it/accepted it more than I have eeeek  

Bloo x


----------



## leoaimee

hay lisadaniella and dom

i would say great that you and your partner feel so comfortable being honest and open.  and i would say if you guys are comfortable your babies will be and so will everyone else.  

you are bound to face some ignorance, as we all do in life, but if you feel ok with your decisions and your family then you will be able to explain to people with openness that wont lead to any bad feeling.

but i would say that dom you made some good points, i mean if my dp is with our baby/child on her own and someone said either 'doesnt she look like you?' or 'she doesnt look like you?' and we have never met the person before and unlikely to ever again.  im sure my dp will just say 'yes, doesnt she?' and not go into the whole thing.  

people will automatically look for similarities than differnces anyway ... my dp was babysitting our friends daughter who is blonde and looks nothing like her and a woman asked if she was her daughter and didnt they look alike.

the other thing that i think is that really untill the child is 8 years old + they arent going to really think about any differences in terms of genetics and what that means and ask questions.  and it will depend on the inteligence and level of inquisitivness of the child as well.

forexample, when gabys nephews stayed with us in the summer, everyone was commenting on how much one of them was like his granny (gabys mum) and gaby and our friends little girl said his brother was like me because he liked reading.  bless her!  she had no concept that B and i arent biologically related and what the others had been refering to was 'interited traits' .... and she is about 9 years old.

so i think a child who is donor concieved may well think im like my mum cos i have brown hair, or im like my dad cos i like animals, or whatever without really thinking its not genetically inheritted untill they are quite old.

so like dom says if you corrected your child or someone else when they said 'isnt your daughter/son just like you ....' or 'she is different to you ...' its not always important to correct them.  because we can be like people we arent genetically related to, and that is nice, and makes us feel close!

im sure that as neither you or your partner intend to hide it from anyone it will be an organic process with who you tell and when.

dom probably has the similar experience as me in that because of same sex relationship there is no hiding how we concieved, and we have had to deal with lots of funny things where people who nothing about ivf, or fertility treatment, or donor conception make innocent mistakes with their choice of language.  but its ok, (most of the time) and we just try to correct them.  like one neighbour asked about the 'father' when he meant 'donor' but didnt really know the right word.

aimeex


----------



## leoaimee

morning bloo - crossed post!

i would definately echo what you say, that even for us in a small, rural place like the south of spain, where people can be a bit closed minded in general, we have had loads of positive reactions. its been quite amazing.



Bloofuss said:


> To tell you the truth those that I have told have handled it/accepted it more than I have eeeek


and dom lovely new photo!!


----------



## Bloofuss

Morning aimeegaby

Yeah I was just reading through your post and it certainly helped me a lot also with the dreaded "oooooh doesn't she/he look like you question" when you are secretly thinking mmmmm wonder how that happened then if he/she isn't biologically mine - but I have to start thinking that I done want a "mini-me" bubba will be their OWN person - hopefully (and if the look like DP well I will comfort them as much as I can ha ha ha ha ha ha  )

Bloo x


----------



## leoaimee

its soo true about remember our children are going to be mostly themselves!

my mum has always said that to us, when we have said 'im like daddy because im lazy!' or whatever she always says 'you are mostly like you!' ....

no one is a carbon print of their parents!

i know genetics is important but i read an amazing book called 'why love matters' by sue gerhert.

http://www.whylovematters.com/

basically it tells about all the research on how the babies brain (and personality) is formed, particularly in the womb, and also in the first year, by the care they recieve from their parents. that is care given by the people who bring them up, whether they are genetically related or not.

lots of studies on nature or nurture that use twins dont make a distinction at what age the babies are adopted and as the first year is so important in setting brain structure, the studies are flawed.

its very interesting reading, and definatelt would recommend it to any parent or person who works with young people.

aimeex
/links


----------



## Dominique123456

Ooh just wanted to add that I am biologically related to my mum but I looked NOTHING like her growing up and people never said anything  Also like Aimee said, people have already said things to me like 'wow, it'll be so cute with my DW's eyes and my hair' the first time someone said that, I corrected them but it upset my DW as she liked the idea that although people 'know' there's no biological connection, their instincts actually tell them something different. So now when people say things like that, I just smile and sometimes they start laughing as they realise what they just said isn't possible and other times they don't realise at all. 

We have made the decision not to tell any friends or family ANY details about the donor, based on what Aimee was saying. We don't want people to obsess over the few details we know, as we feel it would narrow the scope of identity our child would be able to have of their own. So for example if we know the donor likes to play football we don't want people to immediately get super excited if baby picks up a football. We also picked a donor that is similar to my DW and it doesn't seem fair that every time DW and baby show a similarity people might assume that it was the 'donor' who passed on that interest and now my DW. If that makes sense? We also worry about a Chinese whispers effect, that friends and family would start trying to use their imagination to fill in the blanks from the info they had. I.e. if donor liked football must mean baby will like all sports, or baby will inevitable be bored being indoors reading a book. I don't really know, we're traveling the road less traveled aren't we all? Trying to do our best! 

We will tell our baby all the information we have though and then if they want to exaggerate/fill in blanks and tell people the donor was Superman then they can do that and we'll support whatever they want to say 

Thanks for the pic compliment aimee!


----------



## leoaimee

i need to leave the office to get something, this is too addictive!  

dom youre so right about donor details, i dont want people being obsessed and asking about our donor too much.  we have just told people we have chosen a donor to match gab's physical characteristics, and said nothing about interests.

and i was speaking to dp the other thing, and we decided that we wont really talk about what our LO may have inheritted from donor or not ... like 'why does she do that funny thing with her nose, do you think its the donor?' ... and when she is older if she wants to ask questions or wonder about the donor fair enough!


----------



## Lisadaniella

thanks so much for all the comments and the link to the book - i am planning to get it on amazon...I think some of my partners issue stems from the fact that he has kids (grown up now) from his first marriage that were the result of sperm donation (he had/has obstructions which mean that only way to get sperm was via TESE and back then they didn't do those procedures so he and his then wife used sperm donors).  Of course back then in Australia (where we live) sperm donation was very unusual and very secretive (i.e. there is no way his kids can trace their bio donor.  Anyway to cut a long story short - his then wife didn't want anyone to know so they kept it a secret from everyone even the kids until my partner finally told the kids when they were grown (fortunately they both dealt with it very well).  But he talks about feeling uncomfortable whenever someone would say something about appearance of the kids and who they looked like.  I think it made him feel like he was being dishonest and part of his reasoning is to avoid that.  

I think there must be a happy medium too as I wouldn't want the local butcher to know before other close friends did just because he happened to make an offhand comment about appearances!!  At the moment only very close friends and family know but I am thinking perhaps we should tell our next circle of friends/his work colleagues.

I am particularly concerned not to make our child feel different by always pointing out their particular circumstances.  I do worry that as we have a bio son already that this will be an ongoing concern and hope we can give as much love and information as possible so the child feels okay about all of this.  It is hard because it is such a new area of family arrangements isn't it!  

Thanks again for all your feedback and comments it has helped me decide to tell some more people (which is interesting as I am the more  private one in our couple!).  Any books/other info that anyone knows of regarding families resulting from embryo donation/adoption would also be welcome!

Best wishes to everyone.

Lis


----------



## Bloofuss

This is very addictive - great for me as I have felt like such a "lone soldier" regards these thoughts/feelings so glad to have others to share with..........

You guys are different to me whereas you have been given infor regards your donor DP and I were told nothing  Whether they keep information for when bubba decides when he/she is older to look into it more this we don't know - but meantime all I know is that donor has dark hair an blue eyes (DP and I have dark hair and me brown eyes DP grey eyes) so thats all we know and maybe we are better not knowing anythign as we can't compare or 2nd guess where characteristics come from

Bloo xx


----------



## Dominique123456

Bloofuss - I agree that in some ways not knowing is better as you'll just see the similarities to you both and hopefully won't worry about differences - as Aimee says it's normal for kids to have differences from both parents. Look at those kids that are musical geniuses even though both parents can't even play an instrument!


----------



## leoaimee

lis - 

you see your husbands story with his older children is exactly why the advice that is given now to people using donors to make families has changed in the last few years!

poor guy i can really imagine it must have been so hard for him, and im so glad that when his children did find out they integrated the information easily.  

dom - 

our donor didnt really put much info on his form, less than others we had seen, and he didnt write a pen sketch once the baby is born ... i think i was a bit disapointed about that initially but im cool with it now.

bloo - did you get treatment overseas?

it seems to me egg donors write more than sperm donors ... i asked olivia about my observation on another thread.  

dom - have you ever wondered that with so many lesbian on FF couples using LWC and the same sperm bank that we may eventually become online friends with people who have used the same donor?

aimeex


----------



## Dominique123456

Aimee - it hadn't crossed my mind till I met up with a couple from FF who first said that maybe we had used the same donor! I don't know if it would be good or bad to know the parents of a half-sibling?? Probably good in the long run? In any case our decison to keep donor details secret means that unless other people disclose, we'd never know! Aimee on my egg donor form I did about 10 well thought-out detailed pages, but our sperm donor hardly put anything at all and doesn't have a pen sketch at all. I'm curious now... what's your like!?


----------



## Bloofuss

Hi Aimeegaby!

Now we have our treatment here in Aberdeen - I wasn't too keen on going abroad for treatment - it is such a rollercoaster as it is wasn't sure I would be able to cope with that and I feel more comfortable that it was a donor from here (or roundabouts).

Thats another query you have raised for me now that I never thought about - will bubba have half brothers/sisters as I know our donor must of had family of her own before being able to donate - oh me this is a whole new ball game to me - love bubba to bits and looking forward to being a mum but the whole donor egg this is such SO overwhelming at times  

Bloo x


----------



## Dominique123456

Bloo - just take it step-by-step. In practice, when you have your baby and many years together these issues will not seem so huge or theatening. Promise


----------



## leoaimee

dom did you read this is what Olivia said about the diff in sperm and egg donors and the info they give:

_In the UK donors of all types fill in the same forms. it is true that egg donors often given more information than sperm donors. This may partly have to do with the kind of encouragement each donor gets from staff at the clinic - egg donors have much more involvement with staff than sperm donors do - and partly because women are, on the whole, better communicators and more able to put themselves in the position of a recipient (another woman) and a donor conceived person. Historically, sperm donors were not encouraged to think about the children they might help create and this attitude remains dominant in many, though not all, clinics.

There is some research going on the moment about the amount of support that donors are offered/given when completing their information forms. Hopefully this will lead to more and better quality/more appropriate information being available.
Olivia_

dom - do you want me to tell you the details of our donor so we can compare? ill pm you.

oh bloo - at our clinic we were talked to at great length about the implications of using a donor and who donors are, and how many families they could help create, and all sorts of other information. its a shame that your clinic hadnt really brought that up with you.

with sperm donors they are allowed to donate to help up to 10 families, but they can specify less. they can also specify that their sperm vials are destroyed if they die. plus they can have their own children. so potentially children concieved with sperm donors could have lots of genetic siblings.

its kind of different im guessing with egg donors, because of the difference between how easy it is for men to donate sperm and women to donate eggs.

i would guess that the majority of egg donors are women under going treatment themselves and do it as part of their own treatment process.

if your egg donor maybe shared once while she was going through treatment, which maybe could result in your baby and her baby, and i guess there might be multiples in that scenario.

however if she didnt get pregnant and you did, she may well go for a second try and another woman may have her eggs, in which case you could have three families.

i dont know how many times a woman would be able to keep on egg sharinig if she doesnt fall pregnant herself.

the women who donate without needing any treatment i guess wouldnt do it that often as its quite an intense process physically.

so i would have thought genetic half sibs with egg donation would be less common.

in the article of the transcript of the DC network meeting where some donor concieved children talk about their experience, alot of them seem much more intersted in meeting genetic half sibs, than their donors. it seems that they are intereted in meeting people who have gone through a similar life experience.

honey big hugs,  its lots to think about isnt it? but its all worth thinking about in the end ... and expect your feelings to change and evolve as a process of thinking about all the issues involved.

there are lots of people out there, and on FF, who are going through really similar stuff to you. and we are here to give you support.

big hugs!

aimee


----------



## Bloofuss

Hi Aimee

As I will echo from before that you so much for your help/advice you have been a godsend to me - just to talk about these things is great as I feel I have been keeping a lot of feelings inside as peopel just "don't understand" or dont get it??

I think our donor had had her own family and was just a lovely lovely woman that out of the kindness of her heart chose to dontate her eggs - this I know as DP and I were actually second recipients (which makes it even more special I suppose).  DP and I did chose also to write her a thank you card - whihc I think makes all the difference as it is a lot to go thorugh to donate eggs as you say rathe than what a bloke has to do  

Bloo xx


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## Dominique123456

Bloo - I bet she really appreciated that. I would have loved a little card!


----------



## drownedgirl

Our babies have genetic half siblings (my donor's DS and DD) and genetic aunts, cousins, grandparents, all of whom they've met. Sort of weird in a way but when I was young I had lots of pseudo cousins and aunts, so I regard this as a bit similar. You can never really have too much family!


----------



## Bloofuss

Dominique - I really hope so - I came across a thread that was about egg sgares/donors and they all said they would have LOVED to of had a card from their recipient so other than my own gratitude this encouraged me more so to do it - we had to check with the clinic co-ordinator first but she was happy for us to do it - How lovely of DP he wanted to buy her something but we were not allowed  

Bloo xx


----------



## Dominique123456

I wouldn't have accepted a gift but a little card would have been really nice  Who knows I may still get one after baby is born?


----------



## Bloofuss

Dominique

Did you egg share?  If so glad that I worte that card it was difficult putting into word what we felt but im glad we expressed it as it is a lot to go through and it made our dreams possible

Bloo xx


----------



## leoaimee

donation is AMAZING gift isnt it!

well done dom!  

so dom you know your recipient got pregnant?

i dont know if sperm donors feel as attached to their donations as women do to their eggs.

drowned girl -- i guess as you knew your donor its inevitable your dd and ds would meet their half genetic family.  what kind of language do you use to describe the relationship.  do you say aunties/uncles etc?

ax


----------



## Dominique123456

Thanks Bloo - yes, I'm an egg donor and my recipient got a BFP too, i only know that her 7 week scan was fine and she is having a single baby. She could have more maybe in the future as I gave her 11 eggs to play with! (Hence why I got OHSS lol!)


----------



## leoaimee

ahhh so she can keep all the frosties too.  so potentially she could have another baby with your eggs?  

dom do you have frosties?  if you go for sib would you donate again?

ax


----------



## Dominique123456

I donated my frosties but i'm not sure if they survived freezing. We're planning to adopt a sibling (that was always the plan) but we've decided to only have one bubba for the time being for financial reasons!


----------



## leoaimee

ok cool.  axxx


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## Bloofuss

Dom

You are a LOVELY woman as well then for donating well done - without ladies like you the world would be a sadder place.  We were give 6 eggs but only 2 fertalised successfully but hey ho it only too one!!

Bloo xx


----------



## drownedgirl

aimeegaby said:


> drowned girl -- i guess as you knew your donor its inevitable your dd and ds would meet their half genetic family. what kind of language do you use to describe the relationship. do you say aunties/uncles etc?


They're still babies... but we have started calling the donor and her DH aunty and uncle, and vice versa.


----------



## leoaimee

thats nice.  was that something that kind of developed organically or decided before hand?

ax


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## drownedgirl

aimeegaby said:


> thats nice. was that something that kind of developed organically or decided before hand?


Organically I think...but my DS1 and her DS are the same age and already see a lot of each other a bit like cousins, so it makes sense anyway...

I'm sure our DE babies will have lots of questions where they're older, but hopefully we'll be able to answer many of them because they will already know the donor well, and her family.


----------



## Kerry Crabtree

i am at the start of this process, and have worked and been around kids all my life. i strongly believe in telling them the truth even though it is hard for us. in preperation for this i have written a poem for my child (im remaining positive) explaining the donor egg process. i am hoping to get it published however that is easier said than done.

i would hope that this poem will be regularly read to my child almost like a fairy story.

A Most Precious Gift.


Cinderella had one, 
And Sleeping Beauty too.
Cos they were special children,
Special just like you.

An enchanted fairy godmother,
To help with just one thing.
Something most important,
An amazing gift to bring.

Cinders had a pumpkin,
And slippers made of glass.
And Sleeping Beauty fell asleep,
And let the danger pass.

But your fairy god mum,
Gave a generous gift that’s true.
A perfect little tiny egg,
That helped us to make you.

Now the egg was very precious,
And in order to survive.
It needed somewhere warm to grow,
Like a mummy’s safe inside.

So Daddy and I kept it,
And vowed to always care.
To shower all the love we have,
And all we had to spare.

So given lots of comfort,
And given enough time.
The little egg I kept inside,
Grew and grew just fine.
And then upon a wonderous day,
In a very special place.
it left the safe and warm inside,
And showed the world your face.

For the egg inside once fully grown,
And given time to thrive.
Had turned and formed a perfect you,
We met when you arrived.

To your enchanted fairy god mum,
our family has a debt.
she gave the gift of you,
a gift we wont forget.



Copyright Kerry Roling


----------



## Dominique123456

Aw, kezr1, that's really lovely   well done, so sweet and gentle. Maybe you could find a tune and make it into a sort of lullabye/nursery song too? Really special!


----------



## Kerry Crabtree

i have also written a thank you to the donor

Thank you

you’re the fairy god-mum
to whom our family owes a debt

for you gave us such a precious gift
that alone we couldn’t get

your selfless act that gave us hope
the means to deal and help us cope

we cannot find the words to share
that tell you just how much we care

and all the thanks we want to give
for your gift helped us to live

for that what should have been our right
was taken hidden out of sight

it caused us pain despair and grief 
that wouldn’t end with no relief

but with your gift there came a light
a taste of future burning bright

a prayer answered a dream come true
a loving family thanks to you

you’re the fairy god-mum
to whom our family owes a debt

for you gave us such a precious gift
that alone we couldn’t get


Copyright Kerry Roling


----------



## Dominique123456

Aw, as a donor that was really touching to read  My clinic would LOVE to put that poem in their OVA magazine I'm sure, it's full of quotes to and from families and donors, really sweet. http://www.lwclinic.co.uk/gen/ova_magazine.php

Well done, sweetie 

/links


----------



## Kerry Crabtree

thanks


----------



## Bloofuss

Kerz

I am 34 weeks pregnant and it was a donor egg.  I Just wanted to say that your poems really touched me I had a tear in my eye they were beautiful - sometimes it is SO hard to accept the journey I have had to take to have a baby and now as you said thanks to the kindness of someone special that dream came true. 

Bloo xx


----------



## leoaimee

kerry 

lovely poems!!  well done.    

ax


----------



## Marielou

Those poems are really touching a brought a tear to my eye.  (well, floods of them actually!)

You really have a talent. 

Marie xxxx


----------



## juju81

That poem has really choked me, its lovely I really hope someone will publish that for you

xxxxx xxxxx


----------



## ElsieMay

Kerry

I loved the poems too.  I printed them off to read to Lana - they are so much better than the story I was going to tell her about where she had come from!  Go and get them published!

EM


----------



## Shell 2

i am sorry to but in but i am new to this have had ivf attempts that have failed due to poor eggs so now looking into finding an egg donor i thought you had to tell child about this as they have a right to find egg donor am i wrong??
thanx shell 2


----------



## Dominique123456

Hi Shell - I don't know if it is a legal requirement. I'm an egg donor myself and have wondered the same thing, anyone know for sure?

I wish you lots of luck on your TCC journey


----------



## Shell 2

thanks dominique
shell 2


----------



## Rusty06

Hi

You don't have to tell the child if you use donors here in the UK. The donors themselves are not anomynous therefore they are recorded on a central register and any child born as a result of donor treatment in the UK since 2005 can ask for information on their donor i.e. date of birth ethnicity, and any information that the donor has written on the green form at the time of donation, obviously they can only do this if their parents have told them that donor was used. This thread has been the discussion between those who intend to tell and their reasons why and those who do not intend to tell and their reasons why. It is the personal choice of the parent or parents whether to tell.

Hope this helps 

Rusty


----------



## Shell 2

Thank you
that does really help
Shell 2


----------



## Spaykay

Congrats on the poems Kezr, lovely way of putting our journey into words.  

Kay xxx


----------



## Snowy White

Hi all,
My twins donor mummy is my sister in law, (their Auntie), they have 3 cousins/genetic siblings. When they are old enough to understand we will tell them about the wonderful amazing thing that their Auntie gave us.
This year will be my first Mother's Day as a mum and I will be sending a Mother's Day card to my SIL from all of us, as without her our twins would not be here.
Snowy


----------



## leoaimee

snowy thats really cute!  

ax


----------



## Bloofuss

Snowy thats a nice thought - great that all of you are close.

Bloo x


----------



## millielulu

I am 34 weeks pregnant and it was a donor egg. I Just wanted to say that your poems really touched me I had a tear in my eye they were beautiful - sometimes it is SO hard to accept the journey I have had to take to have a baby and now as you said thanks to the kindness of someone special that dream came true.

Bloo xx
[/quote]

Hello Bloo

im new to this site, and have just been told i need egg donation, and i havent a clue about it. was told need to go to madrid.
how does it work? do i pay for just one egg, and if it doesnt fertalise do i have to do it again on another cylce? and pay again.. really confused, and scared.

so happy for you that your tretment worked, its wonderful for you, i hope it all goes well.
i would be really grateful if you could advise me.
many thanks
x


----------



## leoaimee

hi millielulu -

sorry to hear that your feeling scared and confused.    it must have been a real blow to get your diagnosis.   

have you been having treatment or diagnosis in the UK?  who suggested you go to Madrid?  the rules and regs on donors are very different in the UK to Spain.  In the UK there are no annonomous donors, all donors have to agree to information being available to any child concieved as a result of their donation.  the opposite is true in spain.  this is why my partner and i travelled back to the UK for treatment.  i know that other factors become more important for other people ...  is it because of waiting time for eggs in the UK that you were thinking of traveling to spain?

being confident about what and how you are going to tell your child about their origins has got to be the most important factor when deciding how to go about making your baby.  

its a massive process to go through, one that needs a lot of thinking about.

regarding your question about costs, you would pay per cycle each time you need to have a treatment.

normally the donor would donate several eggs ... it would depend how many were collected in each cycle how many you would recieve.  normally the egg donor and the recipient would split the total number of eggs collected.  

the donor and recipient's cycle are synchronised for the treatment, the donor is given drugs to stimulate her ovaries to produce more eggs than she would normally.  the eggs are collected and fertilised and then transferred back to the donor and recipient.

there are also some women who donate eggs who arent going through treatment themselves, so all the eggs would go to the donor in that situation.

good luck with every thing and im sure that someone will be along soon with more advice.


----------



## Spaykay

millielulu - you should perhaps post on the DE newbies board as lots of ladies will have answers there hun. http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=172014.0 I also bought a good book called 'Having your baby through egg donation' by Ellen Sarasohn Glazer and Evelina Weidman Sterling. Many women also have some councelling before going for egg donation, as it is a huge decision (One I don't regret taking!!!) Not sure who told you you have to go to Madrid  That is one place in many of the places abroad you could choose from, but as Aimee said, UK is also a choice. Also, in Madrid there is more than 1 clinic.

Kay xxx


----------



## Bloofuss

millielulu the other ladie have given you brilliant advice - more so that I caould as I was given my donor egg in my home town here in the UK so I am sorry canot advise regards treatment abroad.

Good luck on your journey and glad I can give hope

Bloo xx


----------



## lucky26

Hi,

Sorry if I am asking something that has already been answered, I haven't had a chance to read ALL the posts!! I just wanted to ask how you can best go about telling people about having used a donor!? And how and when you start to tell the child. I am nearly 5months pregnant, single, and used a donor. My family and closest friends know, and have done from the very very start, so there was never any question about the child knowing. However I live somewhere where everyone knows everyone, at least in a "Hi, how's your business" kind of way, and I want to be honest and open because I am proud of my decision but I'm not sure how to tell, and how to minimise judgement, since these people have never really "known" me or how much I've wanted a baby, they may be shocked by that, let alone it was a planned pregnancy using a donor. So really any advice and support would be very very welcomed.


----------



## drownedgirl

Lucky26, I haven't had experience of telling casual acquaintances, just family, friends, medical profession, existing child.. but maybe just weave it into the conversation naturally if the chance arises? i am not sure you need to force the information on people if the conversation doesn't veer that way...  after the baby is born people will comment on how the baby looks like you or your DP, and you could say then "Yes, s/he does have my nose, but that's funny because we used a donor.." or if you have a close relationship to someone and want to broach the subject, you could say something like "I am so looking forward to the baby's arrival. We waited for so long... s/he will be our little miracle.. just think, without the kind help of our donor, s/he wouldn't exist.. it's so amazing, isn't it?"

I think if you are positive and open, people would find it hard not to respond in kind.


----------



## lucky26

Oh thank u very much!! Yeah its not so much that I plan to tell casual aquaintances just for no reason, bit I think because its quite a nosy, everyone talks to everyone community, and I am single they may wonder what's going on! And although I know a lot of people won't ask they will just assume things, I wanted to feel comfortable when talking to people I don't consider close friends as well. Without kind of stuttering and then blurting out "I used sperm donor" and then feeling like I need to jusify it!! Funnily it was very very easy telling my family and talking through the reasons, and I wondered if anyone else had found difficulties with anyone else, as I want the child to be proud too, and not to feel its a problem later if they are asked "where's ur daddy" and stuff. Thank you for your reply it helps. And I hope it was ok to just jump in!! X


----------



## leoaimee

hay lucky

congratulations on your pregnancy!

we live in a v small community and so news travels fast.  i am in a lesbian relationship so its very obvious we didnt get pregnant on our own.  

the thing with other people is we cant control how they are gonna see the world, some people will be shocked, and some people will be pleased.  i would think most people will be pleased.  im sure there must be people who have been shocked about mine and gabys decision but theyhavent actually told us.  most people just seem to feel that having children is a blessing and they understand why we have chosen to.

you will get some ignorant comments because that is the way of the world, adn the more you practise talking about the easier it will be for you to deal with them as they arise without wanting to shout at people.

it can be hard though, on a couple of occasions i havent corrected taxi drivers who have talked about my husband ... although i appreciate that when our LO joins us and is speaking and understanding i wont be doing that any more!  

you can hear it now 'but you dont have a husband mummy!'   

axxx


----------



## lucky26

Ah thank you a! Good luck to you both, well 3!! Yeah its weird because my friends have actuallu all shocked me, I guess I was expecting negative reactions and everyone has either taken it as if its nothing unusual or said things like "good call" and even when my sister said she told her collegues and friends they were all positive about it, so really I'm not sure why I am worrying so much when it comes to strangers who's opinions really don't count or matter, but it seems to be where I worry about how to reply when asked "oh I didn't realise you were seeing anyone" etc. But like you said the more I say it and am relaxed about it the easier it will be!! And in the long run I have the support of those who matter and that's all that counts!! 
Thank you so much for reply, all these things really help!xx


----------



## leoaimee

lucky 

good luck with everything!  and remember there are loads of people doing what youre doing.  have you got chatting on the single ladies bit of this site?  im sure you will find lots of lovely ladies with lots in common.

ax


----------



## lucky26

Thank u!! 
No not yet reallu, but I will, I only signed up yesterday so will have a nose about! 
Thank u xx


----------



## leoaimee

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=403.0

this is the link for the singles! oh i see you found it.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=28.0

this is the preggie section

you can have nice daily preggie chat on the second tri board

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=191110.msg0#new

i also lurke on the parenting section cos its fun to hear what they talk about.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=75.0

enjoy FF im sure youll make lots of friends, it has been a life saver for me!! through treatment and the pregnancy!


----------



## lucky26

Ah that's really kind of you! Thank u very much for that xx


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## drownedgirl

lucky26 said:


> Oh thank u very much!! Yeah its not so much that I plan to tell casual aquaintances just for no reason, bit I think because its quite a nosy, everyone talks to everyone community, and I am single they may wonder what's going on! And although I know a lot of people won't ask they will just assume things, I wanted to feel comfortable when talking to people I don't consider close friends as well. Without kind of stuttering and then blurting out "I used sperm donor" and then feeling like I need to jusify it!! Funnily it was very very easy telling my family and talking through the reasons, and I wondered if anyone else had found difficulties with anyone else, as I want the child to be proud too, and not to feel its a problem later if they are asked "where's ur daddy" and stuff. Thank you for your reply it helps. And I hope it was ok to just jump in!! X


I suppose the way for you might be to weave it in to the conversation something like

"I'm hoping to have the baby at home/in blah hospital... my sister/mum/friend is going to be with me... I hope they're supportive of families like mine, having used a donor there's no "dad" to come to appointments with me! "

If it's a small community, it will get around I'm sure. Or maybe you could do some sort of formal slightly jokey announcements? An email or some little cards... "Thanks to the wonders of modern science I am thrilled to announce..." "Thanks to a very kind donor I am pleased to be expecting a baby in September"

That sort of thing...


----------



## lucky26

Thank you drownedgirl!! All these things help!! At the end of the day I am proud and very very happy with my decision, how couldn't I be when I'm growing my own little person right now!! Its just weird how u get tongue tied!! With some people I've been able to tell them out right not caring of the reaction or who they tell yet with others I just can't get it out!! But the more I'm saying it the easier its getting and all these suggestions really help, so thank you!! Xx


----------



## ClaryRose

Can I ask a question please.  I just wondered what do others think about egg/sperm share children having 'half siblings'.  Do you believe also that they will have another 'mother/father'.  If not, then how does the half sibling argument stand up?  If a child is brought up by a recipient family, does that mean half-siblings must play a part in the family or does it just confuse, say, an only child, is not an only child but part of a larger family.    Can others express their views please - I would be interested to know the general concensus.    If some people feel donation is just a 'cell' (sic) then how can half siblings exist when another mum and/or dad doesn't?  or do they?  Now that makes any poor child born of this practice a very confused child, having two families in a sense....  I wonder how many men have been cuckolded into raising another man's child without the confusion over the years of the child having two fathers and potentially lots of other brothers and sisters.  Does this also mean, seeing a sperm donation can 'father' numerous babies, that all these children are half siblings - possibly dozens of them - and be part of their own 'other' family  ..............

I would be interested, Olivia, to hear your views on this.  There is so much banded around about telling the child (and I wholeheartedly agree with this as long as the donor is not anonymous otherwise the children are left for all intent and purpose as half-foundling) and I wonder whether all this half sibling stuff is taking it all too far..  Thanks very much


----------



## drownedgirl

i think a mother/father is about love rather than biology. I am my babies mother. My friend/donor is genetically linked.. but not their mum...

if that makes sense.

i don't think there's a necessity to create donor families.. each situation is different


----------



## Dominique123456

Claryrose - wow  sounds like you're mulling over all the angles. I think that putting the tell/or not to tell discussion to one side and just focusing on assuming that you DO tell and there are half-siblings then there are a couple of points you've raised.

The sperm donor and/or egg donor and their biological children are still part of the 'donor' family and no-one is mother/father/brother/sister in the usual sense and everyone knows that right from the beginning.

However, from my personal experience once contact is made, half-sibling relationships can be quite flexible if the 'kids' (who'll be 18 by then) are interested in forming a relationship which they may or may not be.  They may just be curious to see what the other looks like and leave at that or not be bothered at all by siblings. If they get on really well they might start a friendship. A friendship between two half-siblings is a lots less strained and more relaxed than between donors and offspring as there are fewer societal expectations about how they are 'supposed' to be.

Ultimately by telling and being open it's about giving the child the choice, it seems more confusing than it is in practice. I know for a fact that the woman I donated eggs to also has an existing child and I am planning on only having one child. So I think that it's quite likely (in my mind anyway) that there will be some curiosity from my child about hers and maybe vice-versa. It doesn't mean that if they meet  suddenly they'll form a lifelong brother sister relationship, they may meet once or twice and it would fizzle out.

We know that not all full siblings from the same background and family get on, at the end of the day siblings are still individuals.

I don't know if I;ve really answered your question - my point is that we can't dictate what sort of relationships these sibling kids might form but I know I would want my kid having the choice to explore them.


----------



## leoaimee

dom great response ... couldnt have really said it better! 

my dp and i will certainly support our LO if she wants to find any half bio sibs when she is older.  i dont think it would replace/threaten any relationships she would already have with her sibling(s) (if we are lucky enough to have them) that she grew up with.

axxx


----------



## olivia m

Great answer Dominique as usual.  I'm not really posting at the moment but this half-sib issue is a fascinating one.  In America the Donor Sibling Registry has linked many thousands of half-sibs, mostly under 18s.  No-one considers the donors to be 'other parents'.  You may be interested to know that the HFEA has recently issued  a directive to clinics telling them to stop giving donor codes to parents, thus preventing half-sib links being made via forums etc.  There are some operational problems but we believe this action was OTT.
You may want to listen to Radio 4 this Thursday 23rd April at 9pm when a documentary titled Who's my half-brother? Where's my half-sister? explores the issue of half-sibs by donor conception.
Olivia


----------



## Creamybun

Hi Ladies, sorry for butting in, I occassionally post on the Checz Republic pages.

I am currently 32 weeks pregnant, a result of donor embryos obtained in Checz.  DH and I had 5 unsucessful ICSI's in UK but it soon became clear that as well as low sperm count, I also had duff eggs.
So after long fact finding about donor sperm and donor eggs in the UK, we ended up going abroad for donor embryo treatment - partly for the lower cost, and partly for the quicker timescales.

When we first thought about using donors, the first thing we both asked each other would we tell anyone - there was no hesitation, we both emphatically said no we wouldnt want to tell the child or families.  We have discussed the pros and cons, the "what if's" - what if the child falls ill in the future; what if it doesnt look like us etc etc.  But we felt strongly that we never wanted the child to feel "the odd one out" or feel alienated - we wouldnt treat it any differently of course but you can never be sure how other people, even your own family members,  might react and some people can have old fashioned notions.

The only person we have told is my Mum who has been fab and totally understands and agrees with our reasons.

But I can tell you that from the moment I got that lovely BFP result,  we both thought of him as OURS.  We have never discussed those "what ifs" since that date - as far as we are concerned he is 100% our baby boy.

Our donors were fairly generic, mid 20's, one blue eyed, one green eyed, both pale skin, brown hair.  To be honest, I look at other peoples naturally conceived children and often think they look nothing like their parents. I truly believe the eye sees what it expects to see and although our families know we had IVF, unless you have actually experienced this yourself I really dont think most people know much about how IVF all works, donors etc, so I dont think our families will ever notice.  And if they do, I would hope they would have the discretion at least never to comment or ask us. 

Families are unconventional the world over. Looking at my own family tree, even through the 1800's and 1900s there are often discrepancies in dates of births, questionable parentage etc. In those days many kids were brought up family members posing as the actual mothers, when in actual fact the birth mothers were young or unwed siblings or relatives.  But in those days they strongly believed in DISCRETION.  And thats what is missing in our day and age, people have this need to bare their secrets and dirty laundry to the world (ie Jeremy Kyle!).  When really family business is private business and should be kept to ourselves.

So there you go, there are my reasons for not telling.  If a medical emergency came up in the future and I was forced to tell, I would, but being foreign donors, nothing could be achieved as they are untraceable. Its just a risk we are willing to take to have our little boy and I cant wait to meet him in about 8 weeks time!

Carrie x


----------



## ClaryRose

Thank you everyone. 

Carrie, you write so eloquently and I totally understand the basis of your decision.  Good luck for 8 weeks time - you both must be so looking forward to making your family complete.

Olivia, thank you.  I heard an ad for the show but did not catch when it was going to be on.  I shall most definitely listen.  It is a fascinating subject as you say.  

Dominique, thank you.  I suppose I was just wondering whether people feel the 'half-sibling' issue is relevant or should be made such an issue, rather than  how half-siblings may get on but really interesting and yes, I wholeheartdly agree there can be nothing but genes connecting them as they will not have any shared history.

Aimee, I agree too that any  of your child's 'familial' relationships outside of your family should not feel threatening.  Some teenagers feel the need to find something to throw at parents so if it's not being 'real'parents it will undoubtedly be something else. 

Drowned Girl,  yes, nature and nurture - biology may produce the blueprint but nurture produces the individual.

Really interesting and thank you for responding so honestly.


CR


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## leoaimee

Hi Carrie

congratulations on your longawaited BFP and good luck with the last 8 weeks of pregnancy (im in my last 5!) its an amazing time isnt it?

its everyones personal choice regarding telling their child of their origins.  I wonder if you might feel strange as your child grows up that you your husband and your mum all know quite a crucial fact about how he came into the world that he doesnt know?  I guess you wont know till it happens.

I cant say im a big fan of Jeremy Kyle or his ilk ... have you seen the spoof by jenifer saunders Vivian Vile?  its very funny.  
i read a very interesting article once regarding all the 'reality' tv as much more medieval than modern, comparing it to public hangings and floggings ... not really a progression but a regression.

i do think there is a vast difference between the public shaming for entertainment that goes on in these programmes, and actually the beauty of living a life being proud of who you are and what your roots are and without secrets. 

good luck with your last stretch of pregnancy, the birth and the incredible journey of being a parent.

love aimeex


----------



## leoaimee

programme on radio 4 that may be of interest:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00jv9n2

its called who is my brother where is my half sister ... and it explores donor concieved children and their journeys around finding out they are donor conceived and their half sibs ....


----------



## Dominique123456

Thanks Aimee - looks really interesting "Kati Whitaker talks to people in the UK and the USA about the ways in which children conceived through a sperm donor can make contact, and forge a familial bond, with their potential half-brothers and sisters. She hears about the difficult choices that both parents and children have to make, and how for some there is the reward of discovery of a half-sibling, but for others the search proves to be a journey into the unknown." 

I'll listen to it at lunchtime  

BTW your ticker is still broken!


----------



## leoaimee

dom i dont know how to fix it ... 

minty posted in in the LGB thread ... so just passing on the news!


----------



## Dominique123456

Olivia - how lovely to hear your voice!! Interesting it seems to show that telling a child when they're adults is quite a shock and better to tell them from when they are young!


----------



## Quiet storm

As someone who has donated eggs twice & who plans to have a final go in the next few months, I think it's best the child doesn't know.

Not becos am scared of a child or children knocking on my door when they turn 18, but becos I believe that it will affect the child emotionally esp if it happens that the parents are blessed with their own biological child later on.


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## LiziBee

Thanks for a really interesting contribution Leola!
Lizi.x


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## leoaimee

thanks leola!  really interesting to read about your experiences.

ax


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## ClaryRose

Leola

You write so well to express your feelings.  I agree wholeheartedly with you.  I would not consider an anonymous donor for the very reason it is a child's right to know their biological background and view the route of anonymous donor albeit it egg or sperm to be totally selfish ie pandering to potential parent 'wants' rather than the 'needs' and rights of any unborn child.  I also believe in discretion something mentioned previously that we seem tohave lost over the years.  It is a deeply personal issue between parents and 'their' children not the school, friends, neighbourhood and all else and sundry, not through any sense of shame but through common decency to have some things left private.    

Good luck in your search to become parents  CR


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## drownedgirl

My father was adopted, and it's something I always knew. However I do feel a slightly sad sort of feeling that I'll never know any more about my biological family on his side. 

I have been doing my family tree on genes reunited and there is nothing on my dad's side at all. 

It has made me think that I should get our donors tree and either integrate it into the babies tree, or at least have it for them to see later.


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## Battenberry

Drownedgirl, that's an interesting thought re: the family tree. It would be really interesting for the child to see I'm sure. I wonder if one of the problems with this is if the child contacted other family members of the donor, and those people didn't know the donor had ever been a donor? (Not written in the best way but hope it makes sense!) I understand that sperm donors in Denmark give a detailed family history, whilst not giving any details such as name, DOB etc, but they write a bit about their parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, grandparents etc. I thought that was lovely, but it worked out as an expensive option for us importing sperm, and quite complicated, although I know some people have done this so their child knows more about their genetic origins. 
X


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## Battenberry

Leola, it was interesting and moving to read your experience. Wish you alll the best for the future if you decide to go down the donor sperm route I think your child will benefit from all your experience.
Love B x


----------



## drownedgirl

Battenberry said:


> Drownedgirl, that's an interesting thought re: the family tree. It would be really interesting for the child to see I'm sure. I wonder if one of the problems with this is if the child contacted other family members of the donor, and those people didn't know the donor had ever been a donor? (Not written in the best way but hope it makes sense!)


i think it's happened via genes reunited, adopted ppl finding their birth siblings etc and just messaging them... in these dats of the internet, it's easy to track people down...


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## Battenberry

Hmm, I'd not thought of that   Having never tried to track anyone down on the internet, but I can see that's entirley possible! x


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## Bloofuss

Leola

Thanks for sharing your experiences with us it was very moving to read and good to heear it from "your" point of view.  It certainly help come the time of "telling" your child.

Bloo x


----------



## ClaryRose

This is not entirely connected to 'telling' however the implications of 'unknown' genetic background have odd ways of manifesting.  A friend who went abroad for treatment as they did not want to 'tell' have just been advised their children (from donation) have autism and on this weeks news it has been confirmed autism is 'genetic'.  This is something that cannot be tested for when donor matched unlike cystic fibrosis.  So much about genetics is unknown and these children will have no recourse or way to understand their genetic inheritance as parents have chosen the anonymous route.


----------



## Candee

Can I ask who has confirmed that autism is genetic? I thought that a genetic link was being investigated for some types of
autism but did not know that this has definitely been confirmed? And is this for all types of autism? Can you tell me where
this information is from?
Thanks.


----------



## ClaryRose

There was a news report last week on Radio 4.  Let me have a look and I'll come up with some references.


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## Dominique123456

re: autism it's a field I work in (kind of hard to explain what I do) but the research only relates to certain types, is inconclusive and doesn't take into account the massive increase in cases of autism over the last 20 years which leads scientists to believe that there are environmental causes (i.e. pollution, diet, immune system etc). See: http://www.ei-resource.org/news/autism-news/new-focus-on-environmental-factors-in-autism/

"National Autistic Society...
The NAS welcomes authoritative research which might add to our knowledge and understanding of autism, and which could therefore be used to benefit people with autism in the UK; for example, by enabling earlier diagnosis so support can be put in place at an earlier stage.

Research into autism is constantly evolving but the exact causes are as yet still unknown. The studies published today in the Nature journal move us a step closer to understanding the genetic links to autism but they are not conclusive and there is a great deal more research to be done. Genetic testing for autism is still a very long way off, and in fact may never be possible as the nature of autism is so complex.

The difficulty of establishing gene involvement is compounded by the interaction of genes and by their interaction with environmental factors. Various studies over many years have sought to identify candidate genes but so far inconclusively. "


----------



## Dominique123456

drownedgirl said:


> Battenberry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Drownedgirl, that's an interesting thought re: the family tree. It would be really interesting for the child to see I'm sure. I wonder if one of the problems with this is if the child contacted other family members of the donor, and those people didn't know the donor had ever been a donor? (Not written in the best way but hope it makes sense!)
> 
> 
> 
> i think it's happened via genes reunited, adopted ppl finding their birth siblings etc and just messaging them... in these dats of the internet, it's easy to track people down...
Click to expand...

*Re: online contact.* My adopted sister contacted me through ********! Which I was ecstatic about - adopted children are given some birth family names when they reach 18 and I think it can be easier for them to make first contact with a sibling than a parent. BUT ADOPTED AND DONOR CONCEIVED children are different. With the former you have all the feelings associated with uncertainty around why you were adopted, feelings of rejection, jealousy, anger etc with donor conceived children the 'why' and 'how' are very clear cut from the beginning - you were deeply wanted and you are with the family you were born into.

In adoption, the birth mother/father might harbor intense feelings of shame/guilt and may not have told anyone else about what they did etc. With donors, especially now, they know exactly what they are signing up to and it's not something to be ashamed of - in fact the opposite, donors should be proud that they have helped to contribute to the creation of beautiful families.

I just think we have to be careful sometimes to remember that they are different things.

*re: family trees * - I can see that for some people the biological tree is important - but for me families are More about values and traditions that are passed down. Our family tree already has all of my DW's family on it. Our baby won't be able to say that he is biologically related - but the traditions, values and stories that have been passed down through my DW's family will still be embodied in my DW as she raises our son and will still make sense. At least I think so. When he is 18 if he wants to know more he has the option of contacting his donor and asking him any questions he likes.

*In terms of to tell or not * - I've gone on about it loads before. But basically the scientific research and evidence from the donor concieved network (who work with many many families around these issues) show conclusively that it is better for children to know from the very beggining.

It doesn't look into what is better for the parents but for the children so I'm sticking with that. Unfortunatly, there are so many reasons that I can see why it would be easier NOT to tell from the parents point of view that it's hard to really beleieve that a decision 'not to tell' is really made in the best interest of thie child. The research shows telling for kids is best but not telling for parents means:

- not to have to explain to people
- not have to answer potentially awkard questions from the child
- not have to admit that there was ever a fertility issue in the first place
- not have to worry that whichever parent used donor egg/or donor sperm won't be seen as an equal parent by others or the child etc)
- not to feel 'different' from other families
- not to have to worry that the child might make contact with donor and like them and want to spend time with them (hey, we're allowed to worry that our babies will like their donor families too much, we're only human afterall!)
- not to have to worry that the child might make contact with donor and donor might reject them somehow
- not to have to worry that the child might not be able to make contact with donor after having that expecation built up.

I'm sure there are other doubts/fears that we all feel when we decide to tell - but from the research/discussions i've read and people I've talked to who have been through the process - these fears are mainly unfounded or nowhere near as difficult as people imagine.


----------



## leoaimee

hi Dom 

I whole heartidly agree with you that telling is clearly in the best interests of the child, as reported over and over again by donor conceived children.

if there is nothing wrong with using donors ... then there should be no shame/fear in being honest about it.

it can be tough sturggling with feelings of inadequacy/guilt/fear but if its in the best interests of your child its best to get the help we need to do just that to enable us to be the best kind of parents we possibly can be.

love aimeex


----------



## drownedgirl

A beautiful poem

There are women that become mothers without effort, without thought, without patience or loss and though they are good mothers and love their children, I know that I will be better.

I will be better not because of genetics, or money or that I have read more books but because I have struggled and toiled for this child. I have longed and waited. I have cried and prayed. I have endured and planned over and over again. 

Like most things in life, the people who truly have appreciation are those who have struggled to attain their dreams. I will notice everything about my child. I will take time to watch my child sleep, explore and discover. I will marvel at this miracle every day for the rest of my life. 

I will be happy when I wake in the middle of the night to the sound of my child, knowing that I can comfort, hold and feed him and that I am not waking to take another temperature, pop another pill, take another shot or cry tears of a broken dream. My dream will be crying for me. 

I count myself lucky in this sense; that God has given me this insight, this special vision with which I will look upon my child that my friends will not see. Whether I parent a child I actually give birth to or a child that God leads me to, I will not be careless with my love. I will be a better mother for all that I have endured.

I am a better wife, a better aunt, a better daughter, neighbour, friend and sister because I have known pain. I know disillusionment as my own body has betrayed me. I have been tried by fire and hell many never face, yet given time, I stood tall. I have prevailed. I have succeeded. I have won. 

So now, when others hurt around me, I do not run from their pain in order to save myself discomfort. I see it, mourn it, and join them in theirs. I listen. And even though I cannot make it better, I can make it less lonely. I have learned the immense power of another hand holding tight to mine, of other eyes that moisten as they learn to accept the harsh truth and when life is beyond hard. I have learned a compassion that only comes with walking in those shoes. I have learned to appreciate life. 

Yes I will be a wonderful mother.


----------



## Candee

Drowned girl, you made me cry    How truly beautiful!
Candee
x


----------



## Bloofuss

I enjoyed reading that - thanks 

Bloo x


----------



## Rusty06

What a beautiful poem!


----------



## lots 1

wonderful poem.


----------



## DizziSquirrel

drownedgirl 
That is so wonderful Thank you for sharing it here,
I am tearful just reading it, did you write it yourself 

Thank you 

~Dizzi~


----------



## drownedgirl

Dizzi Squirrel said:


> Downreggirl
> That is so wonderful Thank you for sharing it here,
> I am tearful just reading it, did you write it yourself


No, it was posted on another forum I'm on. it IS lovely, isn't it?


----------



## shortie66

Hello ladies,

I've often lurked on this thread and from my signature below you will see why     I've written a poem but wasnt sure whether to post it, however supposed i'd better be brave and bite the bullet so to speak.   The last verse of this poem can mean whatever you want it mean, but from my point of view, my main worry when deciding on donor eggs was whether the child would look like me, and in this poem, its the child thats sees itself in the mother (hope that makes sense) Not necessarily in looks you understand, but in the caring, kindness, sense of humour way.  Hope you like it and its not too mushy for you all  

The Gift Of You

You were in my tummy for 9 whole months
A gift from a special lady
I couldnt wait to hold you tight
My gorgeous special baby

I fed you from my milky breasts
It was a beautiful wonderous time
I couldnt believe my dreams had come true
My baby, my baby, all mine

As soon as you could talk to me
I'd tell you of the time
When the special lady gave the gift to me
And helped you to be mine

And through the years we'd talk sometimes
Of the special lady's face
Her hair, her eyes, her mouth, her hands
And her special giving grace

And when it came to be your turn
For a precious baby too
You hugged me tight and said to me
MOM i see myself in you

Kate
xxxxxxxxxx

Copyright C. Lycett


----------



## DizziSquirrel

drownedgirl said:


> Dizzi Squirrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Downreggirl
> That is so wonderful Thank you for sharing it here,
> I am tearful just reading it, did you write it yourself
> 
> 
> 
> No, it was posted on another forum I'm on. it IS lovely, isn't it?
Click to expand...

It is, I will be reading it over and over so thank you 
(can you add a copyright please )

*Kate* another fantastic poem  ( Can you add a copyright please)


----------



## shortie66

Dizzi - i have just out copyright and my name at the bottom of last msg, is that ok, have i done it right?  

P.S. wishing you a very big fat positive for tomorrow sweetheart        

Kate
xxxxxx


----------



## DizziSquirrel

Thanks Kate,  and yes if its yours copyright it!!!   
( I missed the bit where you said I wrote   Sorry   )


----------



## drownedgirl

Dizzi Squirrel said:


> It is, I will be reading it over and over so thank you
> (can you add a copyright please )


There wasn't one, and I've googled but it appears on loads of blogs and sites with no attribution.


----------



## drownedgirl

Just searched again and everywhere it is "author unknown"


----------



## sue93

I honestly thought i was beyond being reduced to tears but have just been proved wrong by drownedgirl's poem. Thank you. 

And to slycett too.  

Sue xx


----------



## leoaimee

kate lovely poem honey!


----------



## olivia m

Hi everyone
Just to let you know that the transcription of the panel of seven DC young people who spoke at our national meeting in Nottingham last October, is now on our website,www.dcnetwork.org
Link is from the L column Home Page.  Unanimous support for early 'telling' and much more!
Olivia


----------



## Dominique123456

Hi Olivia - I'm being blind I can't find the link! Can you post a direct link here?


----------



## Lilly7

Dominique, here is a link to the website. If you look in the column to the left and click on the link next to the second star down, it's there. Very interesting. Thanks for posting Olivia.

http://www.dcnetwork.org/

Leola. x
/links


----------



## Dominique123456

Wow - what amazing kids. There are some brilliant gems in there and lovely to hear it from the horses mouth. I'm going to print it off and put it in baby's folder for him to read when he's older as I love the variety of experiences and the honesty. Olivia - thanks for posting!


----------



## olivia m

Just wanted to share this brilliant new resource on Telling Children about Ovum (Egg) Donation published recently by the American Fertility Association. It all applies to children conceived by sperm donation as well.
Happy reading. http://www.theafa.org/library/article/talking_with_children_about_ovum_donation_2009
Olivia
/links


----------



## Dominique123456

Aw, Kerry. That's lovely.  I hope you sell loads. I'd buy it if I'd used DE


----------



## Guest

I have been reading some of this thread which is quite long so I may have got the wrong end of the stick, but if a child is conceived by donor and woman is single cant the father's name on the birth certificate just be left blank?  Why does donor or unknown have to be the only 2 options?


----------



## Candee

I have checked this out on the brilliant website of Gamble and Ghevaert and they say that you can just leave it blank, which is what I am intending to do, unless of course I meet Ralph Fiennes on the way back from South Africa, we fall in love and he agrees to co-parent with me... So basically, I will be leaving it blank!    
Candee
x


----------



## Guest

Candee said:


> I have checked this out on the brilliant website of Gamble and Ghevaert and they say that you can just leave it blank, which is what I am intending to do, unless of course I meet Ralph Fiennes on the way back from South Africa, we fall in love and he agrees to co-parent with me... So basically, I will be leaving it blank!
> Candee
> x


I would have thought that was the case since a birth certificate can be left blank if non-donor conception. Which clinic in SA are you having treatment at? I'm still unsure about treatment abroad. Does your clinic in the UK liaise with SA?


----------



## Candee

No, hun, they told me I could not get donor eggs over here and then refused to have anything to do with me once I said I would go for donor eggs from abroad  
However, the Cape Fertility Clinic are used to dealing with overseas patients. Plus, I have used a donor agency called Nurture for my donor eggs and the lady who runs it is amazing. She is called Tertia and she has answered millions of emails from me about my treatment. Plus I have had a lot of help from the South Africa board, where there are really experienced people that have been to CFC. If you have any questions you could post there or if you want to PM me i will answer any questions you have as best I can - Brownowl and Parsley on the SA site are the oracles on CFC.
Wishing you lots of luck hun
Candee
x


----------



## Guest

Candee said:


> No, hun, they told me I could not get donor eggs over here and then refused to have anything to do with me once I said I would go for donor eggs from abroad
> However, the Cape Fertility Clinic are used to dealing with overseas patients. Plus, I have used a donor agency called Nurture for my donor eggs and the lady who runs it is amazing. She is called Tertia and she has answered millions of emails from me about my treatment. Plus I have had a lot of help from the South Africa board, where there are really experienced people that have been to CFC. If you have any questions you could post there or if you want to PM me i will answer any questions you have as best I can - Brownowl and Parsley on the SA site are the oracles on CFC.
> Wishing you lots of luck hun
> Candee
> x


I havent heard of Nuture but I have emailed Globaleggdonor.com. Did you have any dealings with Globaleggdonor - i think they changed their name?


----------



## Candee

Hi Hun
Yes, globaleggdonors is run by Robin Newman and I think quite a few of the CFC patients use her donors.
I went for Nurture partly because it was cheaper but also because Tertia was so helpful. However, if you 
want to see adult photos then you would need to use globaleggdonors. 

You just email them and they will give you the password for the site and you can get on and look at the
donors.

Good luck with it all chick! 
Candee
x


----------



## Guest

Candee said:


> Hi Hun
> Yes, globaleggdonors is run by Robin Newman and I think quite a few of the CFC patients use her donors.
> I went for Nurture partly because it was cheaper but also because Tertia was so helpful. However, if you
> want to see adult photos then you would need to use globaleggdonors.
> 
> You just email them and they will give you the password for the site and you can get on and look at the
> donors.
> 
> Good luck with it all chick!
> Candee
> x


thanks for that and goodluck - i do think you are brave going it alone


----------



## tenny

Have just read your beautiful poem.  Thank you so much for that.  Tenny.


----------



## lucy8

Hi
Does anyone know how I can access a copy of My Story as recommended by the DC network. Have looked on the website but can not see where to order one. Thanks.


----------



## olivia m

Hi Lucy8
You can buy My Story from the Bookshop page on DC Network website.  Look at the menu in the R column on the Home Page and you will see this listed.  When you open the page scroll down to the Children's book section and My Story is listed alongside all our other story books.
Best wishes
Olivia


----------



## pippilongstockings

lucy - great choice of book!  We've got the sperm donor version and it's my son's favourite book :0)  He likes the picture at the end and points to each of the characters and says " mummy, daddy, nana" etc.  So cute.


----------



## lucymorgan

Hi everyone,

I was just looking for some advice and read the 2 poems on the previous pages - they made me feel quite tearful, thank you for sharing them with us.  

My DH and I are clear that we want to tell our son who was conceived naturally and is 5 and our son soon to arrive (who is currently kicking away at me...) that our 2nd was conceived with the help of DE.  I  haven't thought through how or when we should do this and have the added dilemma that our 5 year old is ready now to find out but as with all young children if you tell him something he is likely to tell everyone else.  I guess I would prefer to not put this into the public domain (i.e. the school circuit) at least not until a year or two down the line when we've had our baby and have had time to bond as a family. 

Does anyone have any advice on when the best time is to talk about this and how to do it.  Do the DC network provide a workshop or counselling that help you to think this through ?  Any advice would be very welcome.

LucyMxx


----------



## lucymorgan

Sorry I should have checked the DCN site first as they have workshops.  However I know DCN campaigned to end anonymity and we had DE in Greece and don't know who the donor is.  I am comfortable with our decision and am not looking to get into a debate here on ff or at a workshop on whether this was right or wrong.  I guess I am concerned that I may end up in a workshop where this is an issue.

If anyone has experience of the workshop it would be great to hear from you.

LucyMxx


----------



## drownedgirl

LM: we told our DS when he was 4 and a bit, and I got pg via DE. He had asked me quite a few times why we didn't try to grow a baby and he knew in general terms about needing an egg from mummy and a seed from daddy. I told him we were trying but sometimes the tiny babies don't grow even when you try to plant them.

When we went for our  12w scan, I picked him up from school at 330 and we went to the hospital and met DP, appt was 630. He didn't know I was pg. When they scanned me and there were 2 babies he was most surprised. But how did they get there?! he said, shocked.. daddy can't have planted a seed, he was at work.

Daddy will tell you all about it on the bus, i said (DP and DS1 left before me, as the scan took so long)

I will NOT! said DP. The scanning staff were in stitches (and no doubt wondering what we'd say about the DE)

I'll explain tomorrow, i said.

Next day when I got him from school, first thing he said was "Right mummy, how did thse babies start to grow"

So i said, mummy and daddy had been trying to grow a baby from mummy's egg and daddy's seed but they wouldn't grow.. so Kind K gave us some of her eggs and a dr made them start growing with daddy's seed and put two in mummy's tummy.. and now we have two babies growing!"

he didn't seem at all surprised.

A few weeks later he said "Will tbe girl look like you, mummy, and the buy like daDDY?"  i SAID, NO, THE GIRL MIGHT LOOK LIKE k.. BOTH THE BABIES WILL LOOK A BIT LIKE dADDY, A BIT LIKE k, AND A LOT LIKE YOU! aND LIKE YOU, MUMMY, HE SAID.

YES, A BIT LIKE ME TOO, PROBABLY, i SAID.


----------



## drownedgirl

sOMETHING GOING WRONG WHEN I try to type


----------



## drownedgirl

Actually, if you think about it, sex is pretty far fetched to a small child. And some children think they were found in a pumpkin patch, or brought by a stork.

I think I'd just be honest, whatever you discuss. You can bet your life he will ask at some point how the baby got into your tummy... all you have to do is be open, in an appropriate way for his age. then he'll probably forget about it for a while.
, and you can revisit it each time the subject comes up


----------



## drownedgirl

My son now also knows about the mechanics of sex. As far as I know, he hasn't blurted that out to anybody, nor has he talked about DE to his friends or teachers. The topic doesn't really come up amongst 5/6 year olds, tbh! I'm sure it will get discussed when sex education is on the agenda at school. 

DS also asked me the other day if two ladies can get married, I said yes, it's not called a wedding, it's called a civil partnership.. two men can get married too. And X in your class actually has two mummies. Really?! He said. And hasn't mentioned it since.

They take on board a lot more than we give them credit for. After all, they believe in the tooth fairy, and he thinks we have an elf living in our chimney..... perfect age to drip feed them about DE, I'd say.


----------



## olivia m

As usual, really great advice from DG. 
Don't worry Lucy, we have many members and attenders of workshops who have been abroad for egg donation.  No one is ever judged on this.  In our Telling and Talking workshops we support everyone in sharing information with children and others in a way that is right for them and their child...and we sometimes have people attending who have much more complex family situations than DE abroad.
Do join us.
Olivia


----------



## drownedgirl

Most of the books and things actualyl are about anonymous donors... would eb quite easy to buy one and read it to your older child and then see what questions he asks...

Have you seen this? 




/links


----------



## lucymorgan

DrownedGirl many thanks for your insight, I love the story about how you told your DS and his comments, so sweeet.  We will have a look at the books and go along to one of the workshops as I think it will help us work out the best approach and what we will say.  I know we want to be open but we havent got our head around it yet.  I tried  to watch the utube video but the sounds not working on my PC.  Grr technology.......

Olivia thanks as well for you re assurance about the workshops, I think we will try and go before the baby is born.

LucyMxx


----------



## tenny

Hi Drownedgirl
I watched the youtube.  It was fantastic.  I've saved it.  Thanks, 

Tenny.


----------



## drownedgirl

tenny said:


> Hi Drownedgirl
> I watched the youtube. It was fantastic. I've saved it. Thanks,


Yes, it's lovely, isn't it!! If you read any IF blogs, have a look at Me's blog, she made the video: http://stirrup-queens.blogspot.com/

/links


----------



## Charlypops

Creamybun said:


> Hi Ladies, sorry for butting in, I occassionally post on the Checz Republic pages.
> 
> I am currently 32 weeks pregnant, a result of donor embryos obtained in Checz. DH and I had 5 unsucessful ICSI's in UK but it soon became clear that as well as low sperm count, I also had duff eggs.
> So after long fact finding about donor sperm and donor eggs in the UK, we ended up going abroad for donor embryo treatment - partly for the lower cost, and partly for the quicker timescales.
> 
> When we first thought about using donors, the first thing we both asked each other would we tell anyone - there was no hesitation, we both emphatically said no we wouldnt want to tell the child or families. We have discussed the pros and cons, the "what if's" - what if the child falls ill in the future; what if it doesnt look like us etc etc. But we felt strongly that we never wanted the child to feel "the odd one out" or feel alienated - we wouldnt treat it any differently of course but you can never be sure how other people, even your own family members, might react and some people can have old fashioned notions.
> 
> The only person we have told is my Mum who has been fab and totally understands and agrees with our reasons.
> 
> But I can tell you that from the moment I got that lovely BFP result, we both thought of him as OURS. We have never discussed those "what ifs" since that date - as far as we are concerned he is 100% our baby boy.
> 
> Our donors were fairly generic, mid 20's, one blue eyed, one green eyed, both pale skin, brown hair. To be honest, I look at other peoples naturally conceived children and often think they look nothing like their parents. I truly believe the eye sees what it expects to see and although our families know we had IVF, unless you have actually experienced this yourself I really dont think most people know much about how IVF all works, donors etc, so I dont think our families will ever notice. And if they do, I would hope they would have the discretion at least never to comment or ask us.
> 
> Families are unconventional the world over. Looking at my own family tree, even through the 1800's and 1900s there are often discrepancies in dates of births, questionable parentage etc. In those days many kids were brought up family members posing as the actual mothers, when in actual fact the birth mothers were young or unwed siblings or relatives. But in those days they strongly believed in DISCRETION. And thats what is missing in our day and age, people have this need to bare their secrets and dirty laundry to the world (ie Jeremy Kyle!). When really family business is private business and should be kept to ourselves.
> 
> So there you go, there are my reasons for not telling. If a medical emergency came up in the future and I was forced to tell, I would, but being foreign donors, nothing could be achieved as they are untraceable. Its just a risk we are willing to take to have our little boy and I cant wait to meet him in about 8 weeks time!
> 
> Carrie x


----------



## olivia m

See Prima Baby September 2009 for lovely story of a couple in Scotland who are happy to be open with their daughters - one conceived with double (egg and sperm) donation and the other by embryo donation.  Sadly the article is not available on-line.
Olivia


----------



## lucymorgan

Thanks Charlypops for your post from Creamybun.  One thing that I've really realised, especially since my DS has gone to school and I've mixed with even more parents who have made different choices to me, is that everyones views and situations are unique to them and there is no one size fits all solution.  For example, I have found it hard at times when I've had mums make comments that aren't supportive with my choice to go back to work fulltime when my DS was 10 months and I've started trying to justify it.  After a lot of thinking and soul searching I've come to the conclusion that what works for me and my family ain't going to work for someone else and I shouldn't feel I have to fall in line with anyone else.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that for some people not telling is best and for others it isn't and I don't think there is one right way to do things - there are many different paths through life.  Ultimately you have to go with what you think is right.

LucyMxx


----------



## drownedgirl

I think there is a difficulty though, in that what you decide is such a big issue, potentially, for another person (the child) 

I have an experience which I want to share. My  mum died when I was 22... one of the things she always told me when I was a child, along with how I was 7w early and in hospital for a long while, and about how she was in labour for 3 days, I was nearly born in the loo, she had pre-eclampsia and was hospitalised for a long time pre-birth, she expressed milk for me after I was born and took it to the hospital but it turned out I was given formula.... alongside that incredible detail about my birth, I remember a story about my aunt, who emigrated when I was 4... my mum told me she had 6 fingers when she was born.  (Actually, i seem to remember she may have had webbed toes too) and I always abosrbed this info along the lines of "this is something that runs in families"

So when i was pg with DS1 I told the mw about this family history and when he was born the first thing I did was to count his fingers and toes! I never had the same worry, obviously with our DE twins.

Anyway... my aunt from Oz came over recently and we met up for the first time in more than 20 years. And she leant over and picked up my hand and said... do you have any marks... I said.. what? she said.. when you were born you had 6 fingers on each hand, you had to have an op!

I was so freaked out, I never asked her whether she had it too, or was it just me...

Ever since my head has been reeling. I feel like my whole life has been a lie, all the stories aBOUT my birth missed this big detail.. then I think, she must have been ashamed of it, to keep it secret from me.. there must have been  avery big chance of DS1 having it too.. i wasn't prepared for that...

I'm not upset bou the extra fingers in itself, it's that she lied to me all my life! And now she's dead, i can't ask her about it. But my aunt knew, all my other uncles and aunts must know.. who else knows..?

I am thinking of getting my medical records, now.

So I feel even more sure, i never want my DE babies having a similar shock!!

I will never be able to think of my  mum, now, without this thing about the extra fingers coming in to my head, wondering what went though her mind when she decided to keep it secret. I guess the tale she told me was to prepare me for possibly havinga child with the same. But why didn't she trust me with the real story? Why didn't she tell me before she died? 

I think if you keep DE secret, it would have to be 100% a secret, noone else must know. But in these days of medical advances, you can't be sure it won't come out.. whe genetic testing becomes common (as it will)

Let me tell you, finding out something like this after your parent is dead, is a terrible terrible shock.

OTOH, I know my dad was adopted, and I have no problem with that... I knew all my life. We weren't genetically related to my aunt, cousins of granparents on his side. But I knew his birth mother was still irish. To find out THAT was not true would be a shock.


----------



## Candee

So DG telling is obviously important to you and for your family, but I agree with Lucy, not everyone is the same and one size does not fit all. 
Candee


----------



## drownedgirl

Candee said:


> So DG telling is obviously important to you and for your family, but I agree with Lucy, not everyone is the same and one size does not fit all.
> Candee


My point is, it's not for the parent to decide how the child may feel about it if/when (most likely when) the information gets out. This has now soured every memory of my mother, really. And as she is dead I cannot go back and discuss it with her. It has really shocked me... yet in itself it's such a minor piece of information. It's just i feel she must have been ashamed of it/me.


----------



## Candee

Hi DG,
I am sorry that you are so upset about finding out your mum had kept something from you and can understand why you feel so strongly about telling.
I fully respect your opinion and the decision you have made which is clearly the right one for you and your family.
Candee
x


----------



## Bloofuss

Hi ladies

I always enjoy reading from this thread to see wqhat others thoughts/feelings are on such a special topic - glad to feel I am not alone.  Sometimes you feel you are the only mother who is not biologically related to their child - but coming on here I realise I am not alone.

DG - Thanks for sharing such personal thoughts/feelings with us.  I would be the same as you if ever anything was hidden from me or felt my paterns had lied to me thats why we will be chsoing (when the time is right) to tell our son (who was bron using DE) how he was conceived as I wouldn't want him finding out any other way and hating us for lying/hiding things from him.

He is only 5 1/2 months just now so don't have to think about telling - but it does keep me awake sometimes at night about how/when we are going to approach the subject.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Bloo x


----------



## olivia m

Hi Bloo
Many congratulations on the birth of your lovely son.  DC Network has loads of support and materials to help you tell Lyle about his donor beginnings.  We recommend that you start the story as early as possible - you could start chatting to him about it now just to get used to the language - but many people like to wait until their child enjoys looking at books and then use one of our story books for young children (see www.dcnetwork.org).  You might want to read the Telling and Talking booklet for parents of 0-7 years now.  It is free to download from the web site.
The important thing to remember is that information about donor origins is just that...information.  It is not bad news, it is just information to be taken in and digested along with all the other information about your family - six cousins, an aunt who lives on a boat and grandpa with one leg (for instance). 
The journey you have been on and the momentous decisions you have had to take are yours, not your childs.  Being donor conceived is his information and as his parents you are in charge of it until he is old enough to take charge of it himself (probably between the ages of 8 and 10).  But by starting to share that information when he is young you are showing respect for him as the individual person he is and responsibly using your authority as parents.
Very best wishes for the benefits of honest and open family life.
Olivia


----------



## lucymorgan

Bloo,

I am going to go on one of the weekend DCN workshops with DH as I think it will give us space to think about our approach and we can discuss this with others.  I always like to bounce ideas around and I feel like we need to do this sooner rather than later as we have a DS naturally conceived who is 6 in January.  I may try and do this before the birth but may have left it a bit late !!!

LucyMxx


----------



## drownedgirl

Am hooping to get to an open day at our clinic for familes with children via fert treatment.. although DS1 did come with us to some scans there, it was 2 years ago and I doubt he remembers. i think if we go along, it's a good, natural opportunity to remind him about where the babies came from.


----------



## leoaimee

hi everyone,

just to chip in .... its true that all families are different and everyone makes the choices they do and lives with consequences .... but there is a reason why ivf clinics and the hefea have changed their guideline on telling or not telling and that is because overwhelming the experience of donor concieved children tells us that is better FOR THEM (and if better for the children better for the parents in the long run) if they are told and the sooner the better.

its hardly jeremy kyle to talk openly with your children in the privacy of your own home .... maybe the whole pheonmena of jeremy kyle etc is in reaction to the idea that 'family secrets' should never be spoken about and the associated shame that leads to.

aimeex


----------



## Candee

I think it is up to the individual family to make that choice.
I accept everyone's right to make their own choice about what to do for their family. 
I don't think I or anyone else have the right to decide what is the correct thing to do
for someone else's family.
Candee
x


----------



## leoaimee

i agree candee - but we do live in a society that creates social codes of behavious and has moral values and restrictions on what we all do as a families.  there are lots of things that as a society we deem to be dangerous, and have laws to protect people especially children.  like wearing seatbelts, the age of consent, drinking alcohol, etc etc .... we arent totally free to make limitless choices.


----------



## lucymorgan

Yes but Candee isnt talking about an approach that for the majority of people is morally irresponsible and outside of our social codes.  I personally will tell our child about how they were conceived (as well as our DS) but I dont think that everyone else should do so, how can I tell anyone else whats right for them.  Its a complex issue and I dont see that there is a one size fits all answer.  

LucyMxx


----------



## drownedgirl

I think there is a principle underlying the discussion, though. I just find it incredibly hard to understand how people can set off as parents, planning to "lie by omission" to their children. I just can't get my head round it, I'm afraid.  It's like a time bomb, ticking.


----------



## wallaroo

I have to agree with Candee and lucymorgan in that everyone has the right to make their own decision about whether to tell their child about their origin or not. I understand what you're saying drownedgirl about the child's decision being made for them but it really is a complex issue. I do like the approach you took with telling your son  

We have a 21 month old DE conceived son. We had told our parents (they pretty much knew we couldn't have children naturally as I had chemo treatment for cancer) but that's about it. We went abroad for DE and didn't think we'd tell our child. As soon as we got our BFP we knew we would tell our child of his conception. I feel I have to tell him as he's the most important person in our lives and I can't keep something this big from him. My worry about telling him when he is young is the reaction that other people will have, especially towards him. But I think if he found out later in life it would completely ruin our relationship and i just can't risk that. I want him to always know how special and loved he is.

The other thing is the way genomic sequencing technology is moving forward (I am a scientist working in this area) it won't be long before we're all able to pay a few quid and get our personal genome sequenced. I think this will make it easy for anyone to find out about their genetic origins. 


Good luck to you all in whatever you decide to do.

Wallaroo


----------



## drownedgirl

Yesterday, we went to to a teaparty at our clinic for families with babies born from treatment.. Hobbesy and her family came too.  We both took the opportunity to remind our 6 yos, who were 4 when we did the treatment, about where the babies came from. It was quite easy and natural. I said that we had needed the dr to help us... Hobbesy had a little operation to take out her eggs, the dr mixed them with daddies seeds.. and they put them somwhere warm for a few days... then used a bif microscope to pick the best two tiny babies and out them into mummy... where they grew...

He twigged about them actually being Hobbesy's eggs... I said he might have noticed one of our babies looks very much like Hobbesy's DD... a cross between her and our DS1, in fact.

He  seemed qute happy with that. Hobbesy had a similar conversation with her DS.

It will be a while before they realise that her two children, and our Ds1, have the same relationship with the babies, genetically (half siblings)

It's nice when you can just talk about these things a little bit here, a little bit there as the occasion arises. It feels very comfortable.


----------



## caz2222

Hi
Hope you dont mind my joining.....had a bit of break after various unsuccessful attempts at ICSI and FET. We are now sonsidering using some frozen embies we have with DS........its been a very long road and tough decision........but its now our only real chance of having another baby ( we have a "natural" child who is nearly 5 from previous tmt).
I am really confused about when/ if to tell and wondering if its irresponsible to even go into tmt without having firmly made our minds up on what to do........what we are most worried about is supposing we do actually get lucky ....how will things will be with regard to our 5 year old. Wont we need to be honest with her, and if we are , wont she want ot tell the whole world. This is something we really dont feel we want.....
I guess we dont necessarily want to info to be kept secret from the potential child but to be kept VERY private ( we dont plan to tell anyone - our families woudlnt cope well)....does anyone have any advice on how to reconcile these positions?
hope I've made some sense? Love any advice or experiences with older "natural" child vs donor sibling? 

also - hope it OK to ask but anyone in similar situation - we are very worried about feeling an equality between our exisitng child and potential donor baby - Did you or your dh's feel any differently towards either? 
thanks so so much

Caz


----------



## Bloofuss

Evening ladies

Thanks for the advice Olivia re DC Netwrok I have ordered a book that I can read come time with my DS regarding his conception (being via DE).  Would love to attend a DC meet up but all venues too far away.  I am SO glad that I am not alone in this situation and that some concerns I have others are bringing up as well.  We intend telling our DS of his conception as I agree with Wallaroo he means so much to as and is the most im portant thing in the world and I wouldn't dream of lying to him or decieving him.  But as Caz said where do we go with no problems of telling and DS understanding his conception but the attitude of others and him maybe being treated differently by peers etc. if he choses to tell others - he is only 6 months and I panic already......................

Bloo x


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## Candee

All I am saying is that every familly should be free to make their own choices and to compare this to wearing seatbelts/ underage drinking is hardly relevant. Thankfully we still live in a society where parents are free to choose what is best for their child. If you want to tell your child, then great - but why do all of you DCN people feel the need to tell everyone else what to do? 

This is what irritates me beyond belief about the DCN - there is only one way and it is their way. Life is much more complicated than this and the DCN is not the holy grail, it may be the prevailing wisdom in the UK at the moment, but it certainly isn't in many other countries and it may not even be in the future in this country. 

Candee
x


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## drownedgirl

Candee said:


> If you want to tell your child, then great - but why do all of you DCN people feel the need to tell everyone else what to do?


I'm not in the DCN, just a mother of a 6yo and DE twins.


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## drownedgirl

caz2222 said:


> Hi
> Hope you dont mind my joining.....had a bit of break after various unsuccessful attempts at ICSI and FET. We are now sonsidering using some frozen embies we have with DS........its been a very long road and tough decision........but its now our only real chance of having another baby ( we have a "natural" child who is nearly 5 from previous tmt).
> I am really confused about when/ if to tell and wondering if its irresponsible to even go into tmt without having firmly made our minds up on what to do........what we are most worried about is supposing we do actually get lucky ....how will things will be with regard to our 5 year old. Wont we need to be honest with her, and if we are , wont she want ot tell the whole world. This is something we really dont feel we want.....
> I guess we dont necessarily want to info to be kept secret from the potential child but to be kept VERY private ( we dont plan to tell anyone - our families woudlnt cope well)....does anyone have any advice on how to reconcile these positions?
> hope I've made some sense? Love any advice or experiences with older "natural" child vs donor sibling?
> 
> also - hope it OK to ask but anyone in similar situation - we are very worried about feeling an equality between our exisitng child and potential donor baby - Did you or your dh's feel any differently towards either?
> thanks so so much
> 
> Caz


I've posted quite a bit about this.. if you search for my posts on the donor baord, esp this thread, you'll see.
I certainly don't feel any different about the DE babies, vs DS1. Though i am aware, in the back of my mind, sometimes. Other times I totally forget I really do... like we were talking to the nurse from our clinic at an event on saturday... and twin I has very blonde hair.. neither my DPoir our friend/donir has... and I said to the nurse "I had blonde hair when I was small"... which is sort of irrelevat.. though, oddly, one twin seems to have double jointed elbows, like me!!


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## lucymorgan

Caz,

I also was concerned about this and occasionally have a couple of doubts.  Even if my 2nd was conceived without DE I would still wonder at times if I could have enough love left to feel the same way as i do for my DS.  So its a question I think lots of people may ask themselves even if they are all "natural" children.  However as my pregnancy has progressed I have thought about it less and I do feel that its my baby, we created the baby through our actions.  I think when he is born it will all just slot into place and it will be as if he has always been a part of our family.  Thats what other mothers have shared with me.  Also we have spent so much time / emotional energy / money etc to have another child I cant see how we could not love him just as much. 

I am very curous to see what he looks like, but I was the same with my DS.  As my donor is similar in colouring / build to me we are unlikkely to have a child that is very different looking to us but you never know.  

Lucyxx


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## drownedgirl

Our DE twins, one is both the spitting image of DS1, and donor's DD. The other twin looks a _bit _ like DS1, and apparetly very much like my DP's twin brother. Not like the donor's DS, as far as I can tell 9except maybe in build)

When all 5 children are together, I don't know what people would guess, with regards to being siblings. I'd guess they'd say ******* looks like both Conall (my DS) and E (Hobbesy's DD) but as for *****, and her son T.. I don't think her son T looks much like his full sister, E, even.


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## caz2222

hi thanks for the really helpful replies. so so good to be able to communicate honestly with people going thru same thing
I guess I just want to protect my family from the "stigma" element of donor conception. whilst I have no problem at all with it....the stigma IS out there. and I just dont know if when it comes to it I want to see my family (especially when small children in school) have to face any prejudice, especially if I can possibily help it by just keeping their information private , rather than offloading the "secret" (to make my life a bit easier) . 
I'm not overwhelmed by the evidence that children who dont know actually suffer. I mean there must be 100's of 1000s of people out there not genetically related to one of their parents who dont know it....if that was creating 1000s of disturbed children there would be a study somewhere saying so wouldnt there?
Having said all that......I do get that in the future keeping it a secret isnt really an option....genetic testing etc etc. And finding out in any way other than having been told by your parents from a  relatively young age must be seriously tough. so on balance i guess you have to tell. 
But I really dont feel I want to tell other people how my children were conceived....I dont ask how theirs were conceived ! ? And more importantly....say I tell a select few now....and then for some reason fall out with one or more of them in the future and they decide to do something reckless with the information.....say the donor child grows up saying,,,I really really wish you hadnt told so and so...."it MY information to decide who to share it with". 
So it all come back to when you can tell you child thats young enough that it doesn rock their world but old enough that they dont tell everyone....I have read so so much on this and I still havent really  found the best conclusion.
Thanks so much for reading the ramble

Cazx


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## Spaykay

I hope that I'll just talk to LO openly about her conceptin and she'll just grow up with DE conception as a part of her life. I have made the choice to use donor eggs to conceive her so feel that it is her right to know, it is her life. I worry she may be angry with me for making a choice meaning she will know nothing about 1 half of her genetics, but I've made that choice so will have to deal with any questions in the future. All I know is that I love her, she's 100% mine (and DHs  ).....and for some reason has inherited my bent toe!!!

Kay xxx


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## olivia m

Hi Caz
I think a lot of people in DCN struggle with wanting to be open with their child but not wanting to tell the world about their donor conception.  It is a hard one and each family needs to find a way through this that fits with their beliefs and communication style.
I'd just like to say a couple of things.  Our own children, now 26 and 23 have never felt any stigma from being donor conceived.  They have known since they were little (when the norm was not to tell and there was no media coverage of the subject), have shared the information with many people during this time and never had a negative response that could not be put down to sheer ignorance and silliness.  Because they are so confident about their origins they have never felt stigmatised - in fact our daughter enjoys being a bit different and is now taking pride in giving interviews to the media about her beginnings and life in a DC family.  Confidence comes from the way the information is conveyed and if parents feel comfortable and confident and proud of how they have created their family, then the chances are that children will feel the same way.
What we often say is that information about DC really only needs to be shared with people who need to know - close family, friends, doctors, teachers and possibly the parents of children's friends as they grow up.  It's really no one else's business.  If fallings out happen later on then this would have to be dealt with like anything else in life...but as I said, a child who feels confident about their origins should be able to handle this.  We as parents hold the information for our children and tell others in their interest until they are of an age (around 8 to 10) when they can take over this responsibility and share the information, with or without our knowledge, with people they choose.
Experience in DCN is that most young children in heterosexual couple families do not talk about DC, even if they have been given quite a lot of information, simply because it is of no interest to them.  Those who do try to talk with friends about it find that the subject is boring for others and is dropped.
Have courage Caz!  As I said in an earlier post, information about DC is not bad news (for anyone).  It is just information.
Olivia


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## Wendeth

I've just been reading some of last few pages and feel very pleased that we are able to be open and honest in FF and talk in depth about these issues of telling the child. I'm nearly 16w with twins from DE (Reprofit) and my DS (naturally conceived) is nearly 9 now.  

DS went back to school on Thursday, having been aware for nearly 4 weeks that he is to be a big brother (so so excited), and as expected, he told me, when i collected him Thursday afternoon, that he'd told pretty much the entire school including the headmistress, and several of his little classmates came up and congratulated me. Since then i've been expecting other parents to come up to me, saying that they'd heard the news about the twins.... but nothing.  It's been very quiet.  Noone has approached me and the few people i've spoken to were not aware and very surprised that I was pregnant (even tho i'm showing like you wouldn't believe) and i've been quite interested, because of this, in how children divulge information. 

I've always thought that if we told DS about the origins of his twin siblings he would naturally tell the whole school (like he did with my pregnancy) and that the information would get back to the parents like wildfire.  But this week has shown me that kids absorb information but don't pass it on, like we would, as 'gossip',  but just accept it as something they hear that day and then forget about until prompted by something else.  This has helped me feel more confident about telling DS about the origins of his siblings before they are born, and i don't feel quite so worried about it becoming public information.  

I am not telling the other parents at the school as it's not their information to hear but all my family and close friends know and we will no doubt tell the twins from a very early stage (or DS will   ).  

On another point, my mother expressed her deep concern over the weekend about our choice of using czech names (as first or second names) for the twins (for us, it is important that they have a connection with their genetic home as a sense of identity) but my own mum was adamant that it was a bad idea. I snapped (opps) and told her it was none of her business.... and surprisingly,  today, she's sent me a link to czech names online!  I guess until ideas are reflected upon, people make snap judgments based on ignorance and misconceptions.  

On the same point, my own best friend, who's a GP, on hearing we were going to use donor eggs, told me that they would never feel like my children and that i would always regret it!   When i questioned her more closely, it turns out she has a friend who married a widow who already had a child and she was basing her assumptions on that.  I like to think that over the last few years, knowing our journey and heartache, her attitude has totally changed towards donor eggs/sperm and infertility and has made her a better GP because of it.  It was just something she had never come across.

Sorry for the ramble. My brain is still quite mushy.

Wendeth


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## caz2222

thanks again for such incredibly helpful responses.
One isue we have is that , Olivia you say 8 to 10 is about the time that donor child may start to share her story with with others.
I guess even if you have introduced it before then they would be a bit young to talk about it in any obvious detail with friends etc. 
But how does that usually play out with an older sibling.....ours would have a 5 year age gap. do people usually tell the older "natural" sibling age appropriate stuff ...therefore well ahead of their younger donor conceived sibling knowing anything.....would the older sibling not then have the onus of not spreading that information on behalf of their younger sibling? .....or do you recommend telling them both together ?...even if that means leaving it til quite late for the older sibling..........does that make ANY sense?!

I'm so happy to hear that you dont see natural and donor children as any dfferent from one another.....But Lucy i do know what you mean that sometimes its very hard to imagine loving ANY child as much as your first!

Anyway - thanks. corrrr  I'm not even Pregnant....it actually would be such an incredible LUXURY to genuinely have this dilemma!

Cazx


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## drownedgirl

I think, if you adopt an approach talking about life, love, death, periods, sex and donor conception ... just to answer honestly but briefly... when your child asks.. it's easy, really. And yes, I think that means talking to the older child honestly when they ask questions... our DS DID ask, at the 12w scan " But how did they GET there?" and so I could have either given a brief synopsis of the birds and the bees, or a brief explanation of how we did IVf using donor eggs.

It's actually easier to tell the truth than to try to conceal something, it really is.


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## Candee

In your opinion. In my opinion it really isn't.
Candee


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## drownedgirl

Candee said:


> In your opinion. In my opinion it really isn't.


Well, you might feel differently when it comes to lying to an actual real life child, your child. Before my babies were born I did occasionally have a moment's doubt about whether it would be a problem, but faced with a real live person, or persons, who mean the world to you...

And I must say my own recent experiences where I found out my mum had concealed from me the fact I was born with extra fingers on each hand and had an operation as a child... it was pretty devastating. It has haunted me ever since. Putting myself in the place of a child who finds out later that his/her parents had concealed something as crucual as genetic origins... it doesn't bear thinking about, for me. I loved my mum, but I will always, always feel, now, that she was ashamed of me, somehow. I haven't been able to think of her since I found that out, without it being clouded by her hiding it from me.

It is almost certain that detailed genetic testing will be available to our children in their lifetimes, and that their genetics come to light. For me, I'd much rather be the one to tell them this crucual info, and for it to be while I am alive to talk to them about it.

If you could be certain that the information would never get out, that's one thing...

Someone asked about research into the effects of concealed info, of course, if it remains concealed, it does no harm to the child (though I wonde rif it might eat away at the parents) but there is a welath of info about the ffects on people of finding out theyy were adopted, or that their sister was actually their mother, that sort of thing...


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## Candee

Drowned Girl I won't be lying to my child - I will be making a decision which I know will be in the best interest of my child, given my particular circumstances.  However, if god-willing I am able to carry this pregnancy, which is still at such an early stage, I will be teaching my child
the paramount importance of tolerance and understanding. I will be teaching them to listen to and respect the views of other people. I will
be teaching them that as they go through life they will meet people who don't agree with them, but that not everyone has to think the same
things. I certainly will teach them that it is wrong to bully and harras people, just because they don't agree with you. 

I do wonder, if you and the rest of the people on this thread, who make it their business to drown out any dissenting voices, are so sure about what
you believe, why can there be no room for any discussion? But you have got your way - I am will stop posting here. I feel very distressed at the way I have been treated and just now it is not good for me to be getting upset. 

But just because there are more of you and because you can distress and harass one person, doesn't make you right. 
You also know, as do I, that most people who use donors in this country don't tell their children. They make a decision which in their opinion is in the best interest of their child, as have you. I full respect the decision to talk and tell, it would be nice if people on here could try and practice a little
tolerance and respect for others.

Candee


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## Skirtgirl

Candee, I havn't read all the posts on this topic recently but get from this last post of yours that you do not agree that it is always in the childs best interes to be told of their donor origins and dare I say it do not intend to tell yours??  If so I am right there with you and have no intention of telling my child either. No body else knows other than the clinic and I have very little information to give anyway. As to whether or not having my ivf abroad with an annoymous donor was responsible or not I just look at the joy this baby with give to all around and the love it will receive in return and it is a no brainer!

As you say all situations are different and we should all be allowed to have our different views. Well donr for sticking up for you beliefs on what I can see is quite a 'closed 'thread!


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## Jane D

Hello

I am pleased to see there is a number of people on here with bio siblings to donor conceived children.  My bio dd is 4.  I am 34 weeks pregnant with deivf baby.  I do intend to tell my children, but after seeking lots of advice.  I actually think both kids should be told at the same time.  Why should my bio daughter know about it before their sibling?  I am concerned my dd may think she is more important and think she holds all the ace cards despite the fact I love them equally.  Also I dont particularly want her blabbing our family business in a school in a very close rural tight knit community for the time being. I dont want all and sundry to know I had DEIVF the same as I would not tell the world if my dh had had  a vasectomy reversal as it is private family business.  That is just where I am at the mo.  Feeling great love for my deivf child, not denying it is a deivf but happy to be where I am.  Add to the mix the fact that my elderly parents were really horrible to me when I suggested DEIVf and said they did not think going to Spain was a good idea and when I announced my pregancy they automatically assumed it was natural.  I did not try to tell them otherwise.  Yes I have had counselling but will obviously be going for more in the future and hopefully going to a DCN network workshop. That is all I can do for the moment.  IF anyone is in a similar boat and does not want to post publicly, they are welcome to pm me at any time.

Jane


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## shortie66

Hi ladies  

Wonder if i can jump and say a few words.  Im going to reprofit next march for deivf and im still in limbo tbh as to what to tell     and      that it works of course.  One part of me says dont say anything cos what you dont you cant worry about, but the other part of me says of course you must tell.  I dont like secrets especially ones that can cause hurt to peoples feelings, i only found out a few months that my mothers brother and sister were in fact only half siblings to her, i mean why did my mother never tell me    Was she ashamed of her mother having 2 more children by a different man after my moms father had died    Unfortunatly my mother passed away 7 years ago and to be honest finding out this information really hurt and upset me.  Why did my mother not tell me?  Did she class it as something to be ashamed of?  Or did she think it was none of my business?  The trouble is now i will never know, and will spend the rest of my life wondering if there were other things in my family history that were never told to me. I think i need to think seriously tho about the want and need to tell, am i doing it for me or my child


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## juju81

Candee - I have read back through a couple of pages & i'm with you on this one.  Just because others choose to tell there child doesnt mean everyone should do the same.  We are all entitled to do what we think is best for OUR child/children.  We are still undecided as to whether we will tell our child & we are not going to worry about it for a good few years yet.

I'll give you that bit of advice - try & enjoy your pregnancy, its been a long time coming & worry about all of this in a few years time

Chin up chicken

xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## caz2222

LONG RAMBLE -  sorry
Firstly candee - dont go! - its so healthy to have the debate, isnt it?!

Its so emotive isnt it. I agree childs well being is paramount. 
But am still not convinced that telling the world about its donor conception is always in best interest....(and I think telling a young child IS the equivalent of telling the world! I know what my 4 year old friends tell me about whats happening in their private lives!)  

I sort of cant get past the feeling that as its US who have made this decision to use donor therefore its US who have to carry the burden of it (in as much as it is one....and it really sounds like it just isnt one once the miracle comes along!), rather than pass if off onto child and friends and family - just to make us feel better about it.

Dunno.......I can really see the other side too....and the feeling of relief once you have told people and knowing you dont have to hold the secret must be HUGE! And I suppose the mood lift is pretty beneficial to everyone around you
Also - donor child will be able to find out the truth with or without our help pretty easily in a  few years. 

So its not really a case of IF they find out but HOW....and I suppose that tips the balance for me back towards telling at some point. And I see that its easier to do that early.

But I can t say I want to, if I'm truthful. 

Why dont I want to ....I hope you dont mind my being honest - I dont want to offend anyone......
1. I live in a pretty middle class rural village where i think people are quite narrow minded.....I suppose, I'm not ashamed, but not yet fully comfortable with it....slightly feels like an unusual maybe "weird" thing to do, not so much egg donor, but sperm donor...I mean carrying another mans baby who isnt my DHs....will people think we're weird?

2. Will DH connect? If we just "ignore" the donor thing wont it be easier for him to get on with it and feel its really his?
3. Kind of want to protect my DH from embarrassment of low sperm count
4. Dont think his family would cope at ALL well
5. REALLY worried how my older DD will react to it....will she say - whhy did you have to do this strange thing, people think we're weird - or something along those lines

I WANT TO STRESS I DO NOT THINK ITS A WEIRD THING, I UNDERSTAND IT ISNT , ITS JUST MODERN DAY BABY MAKING...but I'm just saying what I'm scared other (who arent as familiar with all this stuff as we have all become) people might say to her....

6. MOST worried about DD and potential donor child being mocked or picked on

Also - while I'm on my soapbox-  i think donor conception really is VERY different from adoption. Noone has given you up, you havent got "parents" anywhere else. friends I know who are adopted have never been very interested in there genetic history...even if they have sort out birth parents, its been  more about finding the woman who carried/ gave birth/ and gave up the child - NOT necessarily to find their genetic background....I mean your genes are your genes....even if you know where they come from you cant change them, they are yours- surely thats the beginning and end of it isnt it? And we are more that 50% a result of nurture anyway arent we?
again - very sure I'm missing something!

Um - there it is - out there!!!!!!!

Am I in SERIOUS need on therapy or what?!?!?!

Cazx


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## Jane D

Caz

I enjoyed your open honest post.  You certainly dont need therapy.  

In a perfect world I would have a younger sister who would have given me her eggs and it would have been marvelous and everyone informed.  Perhaps if my ovaries had failed at 20 years old my parents would have embraced DEIVF as being wonderful and readily accepted it.  However, we are where we are  and we are all trying to make sense of our situation.  We are learning every day and awareness of donor conception is growing.  That doesnt mean necessarily tolerance and understanding is and your town sounds like mine. You also have a 4 year old daughter like me and have the same thoughts.  I am thinking what you are thinking and you are not alone. I am sure things will become clearer as we move forward.  I worry that my bio dd has inherited duff ovaries from me and I like to think our dilemma will not exist one day in the future as donor gametes will be stripped down and the recipients  dna inserted.  I am sure we will explain to our children at the right time how we got here.

Keep the posts flowing everyone, it is really helping


Jane


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## caz2222

Blooming minefield aint it
Heres hoping that once we all got lovely babies (heres praying!) there wont be so much time to over analyse it!
Your DD much be soooo excited! She is so lucky. Seeing it thru her eyes actually makes it all seem so straight forward in a way!
Cazx


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## drownedgirl

Thank you Aweeze! I come to this thread to share my experiences of having a DE child... and though I accept others have different opinions, i do feel strongly that those opinions may change when they are faced with a real live child who has its own rights.


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## caz2222

mmmmmmmmm just re read my rambling message - really hope didnt come on too strong.....was just hoping to be honest and open and get honest feedback really ....which I think is what we're all after , whatever our stand on this is, isnt it?! 
Take care
cazx


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## juju81

Caz - Just read your post - we have used donor sperm & everything you said is what went through my head before counselling.  I think its only normal to have those thoughts

xxx


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## pippilongstockings

Caz - I agree with juju, we had the exact same thoughts before (and if I'm honest after) having our first BFP.  Time really does sort a lot of worries and issues out and we also found counselling excellent.  If it helps, we have no such worries anymore and don't have any problems discussing donor conception.  We've found that most people are interested rather than judgemental.

Candee - as the others have said, please don't go!  As I think you are aware, we have different views on this issue, however I still firmly believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that it is healthy and necessary to have this debate.  People and families are different and what works for one family may not neccessarily work for another.  At the end of the day we all want what we think is best for our much longed-for children  

pippi xx


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## lucymorgan

Just to reiterate Candee ............. please don't go.  There are many posts here from people that recognise everyone has different circumstances and will come to different conclusions re whether to tell or not.  Its not one size fits all and it really helps to debate this complex issue.  I have certainly learnt loads from reading these posts and realised I need a forum to deepen my thinking.

LucyM xxxxxxxxx


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## brizzy

Congrats on your BFP.
My DH and i agreed that we would not tell anyone including our child.
We are very comfortable with that decision although we have not had to face as yet the prospect of a child to share our lives with. 
However you and your DH decide to deal with your decision is personal. It just gets more complicted the more people become aware of your situation.
Good luck to you


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## Violet66

I think there's a world of difference between telling your child when you know the donor (as drowned girl does) and when you have absolutely nothing to tell the child. 

I will be having my first cycle of donor egg/donor sperm IVF in November in Athens. I'm a single woman so I'll have to tell people about the sperm donation - I've made my peace with that. Although I think it will be very hard on the child to have to say that they were sperm donor conceived and I can't tell them a thing about the donor other than nationality. 

To then tell them that I'm also not the biological mother, oh, and I can't give you any information about her either would - in my opinion - be bordering on cruelty. Why would i put a child through that when it's avoidable? 

I definitely will not be telling the child that he/she is donor egg conceived - or anybody else for that matter. Everybody has different takes on this but we can only do what feels right for us based on our own instinct.


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## Spaykay

As I used donor eggs in Spain (I live here and donor is Spanish) I will also have no info on donor, but I still feel it is darling LO's right to know about her beginnings. I hope she will grow realising genetics is not the most important part of life but the love and care that she is given being a part of our family. Although I could not use my eggs as they are naff, I still feel I have made this decision for her and that it is her right to know. If I couldn't share this with her then I would not have used donor eggs. This is how I feel but I know not everyone feels the same, it has never been a question in my mind as to whether my child should know her own history or not. When people say to her she looks like me or DH, she will know the truth and that YES, certain aspects of her looks, personality will look like me, but through nurture, not nature, I won't have to clench my teeth with her thinking she looks like me because of genetics, or pretend her skills came from someone on my side of the family, I just wouldn't feel right or fair.

K x


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## drownedgirl

I do have friends with donor conceived children, almost entirely lesbian couples... so there has never been any possibility of concealing it from the child. 
I wonder whether in some cases, the anxiety and negativity about the information comes from an ambivalence about having used a donor in the first place.

There is such a stigma associated with infertility... I can see why people might want to try to forget it, and hence the role of donor gametes...

I presume everyone has seen this:

http://www.4therapy.com/consumer/life_topics/item.php?seeresults=1&uniqueid=5902&categoryid=495&

Quite perceptive I think.

/links


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## shortie66

Drownedgirl i would say thats very perceptive, almost like my thoughts had been read. Thank you


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## drownedgirl

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/magazine/15egg-t.html?pagewanted=9&_r=2&ref=magazine

"According to several studies, most donor recipients haven't told their children about their origins, though some researchers argue that this trend is reversing. The women I spoke with, all open enough about their choices to talk with me, said they did expect to tell their children. They talked about integrity and a child's right to know his history. They mentioned the danger and difficulty of keeping family secrets. "If I keep it a secret, then why is it a secret?" Anne said. "Then I create the stigma even if no one else ever does. And I don't want to be responsible for that. I want my daughter to understand that, you know, you were the best egg for the job." Anne laughed. "And she'll learn about perseverance. And that some things are nature: your genetic makeup makes you behave certain ways, or like certain things. That's the way that it is. But I've been nurturing her. I carried her in my body. I pushed her out. She's my child....

In truth, it isn't clear that secrecy is necessarily damaging. In the most extensive longitudinal study to date, Susan Golombok, the director of the Center for Family Research at Cambridge University in England, has compared families who have sperm-donor children with those who have egg-donor children, as well as with those who used conventional I.V.F. and those who conceived naturally. In 2006, when her team last checked in with the donor-conceived children, they were 12, and most had not been told the nature of their conception. The kids in all of the groups were equally well adjusted. What's more, parents of donor-conceived kids (and those who used conventional I.V.F.) were more involved with their kids' lives than those who had conceived naturally.

Apparently, secrecy has not affected their relationships. But, Golombok wonders, what if those children someday discover the truth? Close to 75 percent of her subjects who were not planning to tell their children had told someone else that they had used a donor. What if the information came out accidentally or was blabbed during the course of a bitter divorce? What if the nongenetic parent contracted a fatal, genetically linked disease? That one hit home: I'd been through treatment for breast cancer five years before our donor cycle; I couldn't imagine allowing a daughter to believe that she, too, would be at risk.

There have been no large-scale studies on how disclosure affects the psychological development of donor-egg-conceived kids or their relationships with their parents. But among teenagers who were told as young children that they had been conceived using donor sperm, there have been no negative repercussions, according to research by Joanna Scheib, a professor of psychology at the University of California, Davis. In 2004, the A.S.R.M. switched its official position to support disclosure, though not unequivocally.

According to Robert Nachtigall, who has looked at disclosure decisions as well as "resemblance talk," both those parents who disclose and those who don't have the same motivation: acting in the best interests of their children. "We were struck by how people could use the same argument and come to a different conclusion," he said. "Disclosing parents perceived the danger would come from an internal disruption of the family dynamic: they felt that if the child found out from another person it would destroy the trust and their relationship. Nondisclosing parents were more concerned with threats from outside of the family, with stigma. They didn't want to subject the child or themselves to public scrutiny, to be thought of as different or other. They'd made the decision that that was the greater threat, so they weren't going to disclose. Both types realize that this information is powerful and important; they just have different strategies about how it is to be managed."

Parents who take the leap, though, say they don't regret it. In a study published this March of disclosure strategies among parents who had used donor eggs or sperm, Nachtigall and his co-authors found that many expressed relief at having told their children, as if a weight had been lifted, while most children's responses ranged from neutral to positive. "That's the big take-home message," Nachtigall said. "Nobody regretted telling. Nobody."

"


----------



## roze

Drownedgirl, you have really done your homework and the information you have posted is very interesting and your analysis mature and thoughtful.

I do not think that anyone going abroad for donor eggs is automatically not thinking of their eventual child. Availability is the issue as its otherwise an academic argument. It is still not easy to get donor egg tx in the UK and even if people do, it is usually necessary to have several attempts before success. In my own experience of women on this site, few are rarely so one dimensional that they do not consider the effects of tx on their child.

I do also think the issue is one of choice and timing. A friend has decided to tell her 7 year old son but the outcome has not been positive as her son thinks that there is someone else out there who might come and take him away. This is an unfortunate thing to have happened but once its out its out and my friend is hoping that as he matures this will cease but she wishes now she had either waited or not told at all. 

The decision of whether to tell or not and how the child is told will also depend on how the information is presented. I agree that to do so is useless as the child cannot find out any information about the donors until they are 18. To me the change in the law was made to enable politicians to feel a bit better and has made a complete mess of this situation. Its also relevant how parents feel about epigenetics ie how the 'womb'  mother influences the genetic outcome of her child. I feel that this information is too often ignored in the telling camp no doubt as it would be too much for a child to take in but as recent research shows, it is simply not the case that the child has no genetic relationship with the womb mother hence the conceptual division between a real and a host mother has no real substantiation. 


roze


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## lucymorgan

DrownedGirl thanks for your post and the links, I need to digest this.  You are so well researched and its really great that you share this with us all.

I have to echo what Caz says that it seems that on this thread that if you have decided not to tell then you are treated as if you are doing something wrong and there are some negative comments which aren't helpful. Please lets keep this an open forum where we can share ideas / information.  Lets not be judgmental as its really not helpful to anyone.

LucyMxx


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## shortie66

I agree totally lucy.  I admit the way i feel now if i am lucky enough to have a little one my thoughts are to tell.  But that is "my thought" and "my opinion" at "this moment in time"  However we are all different and what one person wants to do another may not.  I like to think that if i needed counselling i would ask for it myself as i did when i lost my mother and father.


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## caz2222

really interesting article drowned girl. really balanced view and  says it all really doesn't it?thanks! 
cazx


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## Damelottie

I recently was lucky enough to give birth to Alfie who I conceived using anonymous donor embryos. I have always known that I would tell him about him being a donor child. I sometimes feel it would be easier not to   but I shall. At the grand old age of 5 weeks we had a chat about mummy going in a bit aeroplane to fetch him  . I do worry very much if he is upset about the anonymous part of things but I had to go abroad for treatment so it was that, or he wouldn't have been given life. I dearly hope thats OK for him.
I told my family about the treatment and unfortunately didn't make it clear that I didn't want it going outside the immediate family. I take full responsibility of that and my lovely mum told some of her friends not realising when I said it was OK to tell I didn't mean outside my family. So obviously I have to tell him everything now anyway.

I have given him a Czech middle name as it felt like a nice thing to do for him.

Strangely enough I don't have any concerns about the donor eggs being anonymous as I fell 100% that I am his mummy. But I DO have more concerns that the sperm is anonymous. Isn't that strange?

I have one 'situation' to deal with tho. My family seem to think that embryos were from a 'nice' couple who donated them as they didn't want anymore children. I don't think thats the case and I'm wondering when/if to burst their bubble. If I don't say anything then I'll have to tell A that story too. That wouldn't be the truth   

I can fully understand how the 'to tell or not to tell' issue is very hard for some families. Probably one things that makes it easier for me is that I'm single so I was always going to have to say something about the lack of father anyway. 

Lots of love to us all and our lovely donor children


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## shortie66

Ladylottie      Whatever ur decision is to tell ur boy has to be ur decision sweetheart, but i can see no harm in asking advice in coming to your decision.  Im the same as u as in donor eggs not being a problem for me but unsure how i would feel if we had needed just donor sperm or embryos    We are potty arnt we   BUT and its a big BUT here hunny is that whatever u decide to tell ur gorgeous boy is that we will be behind u 100% sweetheart      And this is only my opinion but i think the fact that u have given ur litlle one a czech middle name has really pulled at my heartstrings and just shows how much thought u have given to him and his feelings in his future life as ur son and how much you love him.  You have given me one more thing to think about in the process and for that you have my heartfelt thanks.


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## shortie66

Woooooo hooooooooo just realised our threads back


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## leoaimee

hay LL    

i guess its normal to feel its harder to 'explain' the sperm part to alfie cos he doesnt have  a dad or equivilant ... maybe you feel he is missing out in that respect.  LL are you a lesley bean?  i always thought you were, but thats cos you mod our gayboard ... but then i thought you might not be!  

i know i have worried about lulu not having a male parent .... and whether there will be enough men in her life.  i guess we will have to see how it pans out.

i think it might be a good idea to point out to your mum and dad that they have imagined the bit about the nice couple .... maybe just try to kindly point out that they have invented that bit ....  its probably best that alfie doesnt get any confusing mistruths.

i agree with kate your message made me cry, and i think its lovely that you gave alfiie a chez middle name.  even though you wont be able to tell him much about his embroy donors im sure you will do your best to learn about where they are from and help him in anyway to make sense of the process that created him. 

love aimeex

hi kate


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## Bloofuss

Glad this thread is back ladies 

Bloo x


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## mojitomummy

LL - if this is any help.. 
I'm adpoted and how my parents dealt with that has been a really benefit to me in how I've approached sperm donation and dealt with that. I believe that they dealt with it perfectly and I hope that I can do the same for my child (children i hope!). It was always general knoweledge to most people that I'm adopted but my mum always said the details of the birth parents was my knowledge and only mine and wouldn't tell anyone (including grandparents and their good friends) that information. I always knew i was adopted but I was given the details about the birth parents much later on when i was old enough to understand what that meant. And actually I have shared some of that information with people but quite selectively. So although a few people know that Zac is from a donor we've been quite careful not to tell people about that donor. I think this touches on some of the previous conversations on this board about whats public information and whats private. My mum didn't want people saying "oh she gets that from her birth parent" and I don't want people saying that about Zac. Everything he gets is from me and DH! And yes when people comment on his size i do say - well DH is tall.

One thing that has surprised me (which I'll share now that I'm posting anyway) is that before Zac was born I had absolutely no problem with the fact that i was going to tell people he was donor concieved and I'm certainly strongly in the camp that secrets in families are a very bad thing and that for me there was no question that we'd tell him and other people (happy to respect people have different views but I'm strongly attached to mine). However, since he's been born I haven't actually told anyone that we've meet through baby groups that he's donor conceived and in fact very few people that I've had IVF. Obviously its not a secret so if someone asked me outright i won't lie but I'm certainly not planning to volunteer the info for a while. SO I guess the next hurdle for me will be when someone asks outright.

roze - do you think your friend actually waited *too long* before telling her child?

my personal belief (based on being adopted) is that it is better to always know. I had a great book called "I am adopted" which reminds me - i really must order that book on being DC for Zac. I never knew anything other than being adopted and always felt pretty darn special because of what my parents had to go through to have me.
I just hope that by being honest he will respect me as a parent just like I respect my parents and love them unconditionally. In case you were wondering I've never felt the need to find out more about my biological parents.

Love to all where ever you are in this journey and whatever your views xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Bloofuss

Thanks Becky for sharing your views/story

Bloo xxx


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## Damelottie

It was very helpful and interesting becky - THANK YOU


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## leoaimee

hay becky100

we have actually ended up talking to people about the details we know about our donor more than i thought we might.  it feels strange in some ways because of what you said, ie that people might talk to lulu about for example the nationailty of her donor, and make some kind of assumption about it with her .... but its out there and we will just deal with what that means as it happens.

really interesting to hear about your experience of being adopted.  

ax


----------



## Spaykay

Becky, thanks for sharing your life story   I so hope that EG feels the way you do about how you became a family. I really want her to 'always know' and hope I let her know correctly. 

She will be the 1st to know (apart from my paents and bro), but I do hat e not saying the truth when people say she looks like me (which she clearly doesn't  ) She does look Spanish (funnily enough as DH and donor are Spanish  ) so most say she looks like DH. I ffeel bad knowing that people will one day know and that I am 'lying' to them at the moment, but it is our wish for EG to let them know. It's tough to make decisions and know when and how to do tis correctly.

Aimee - I'm sure that you and Gaby are doing a super duper job as parents and that male influence will come through freinds and family. Even with a DH, they often spend too much time in the pub anyway so LO doens't get that much male contact   Loved your expression 'Lesley Bean' BTW   

ok, had 1 beer as bubs doesn't feed til morning now so am tiddly and will stop typing  

kay xxx


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## Bloofuss

Hey SpaKay I know exactly what you mean - many people have said to me that my DS REALLY looks like me and even those who do know of his conception think he looks like me   - I think people just see what they want to see and when they ask me who I think he looks like - I just say he looks like him  

I have found it easy to say the DS was conceived via IVF but haven't told anyone other than thoes REALLY close to me of the DE issue - think I would rather be open and honest maybe one DS knows as it is his information as well?

Bloo  x


----------



## Spaykay

Yup...everyone knows about IVF and we giggle at fact DH was in Germany and mum was with me at conception!!!   I also say EG looks like herself  

Kay xxx


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## leoaimee

we say lulu looks like herself too.  and she looks like dp!!!  ax


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## Spaykay

Well...EG is gorgeous and so am I!!!!  

Kay xxx


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## pippilongstockings

Spaykay said:


> Yup...everyone knows about IVF and we giggle at fact DH was in Germany and mum was with me at conception!!!


Ha ha Kay, DH and I giggle that #2 was conceived when he was 20 feet away lol. Not many of our friends can say that!

EVERYONE says how alike my DS and DH are, hardly anyone says he looks like me! At a family party on Sunday an aged uncle kept saying that he's never seen a son and father look so alike! I think it's because they both have such dark eyes. A lot of people know about us using donor sperm although most seem to have forgotten.... but those we don't feel like telling or if it's not appropriate then we just say something like "yes, he's got dark eyes like DH hasn't he?" or "he looks a lot like my sister don't you think?". I really don't worry about it anymore, it's just people making conversation and as long as they think he's gorgeous then I'm happy :0)

P x


----------



## mojitomummy

p - and congratulations again I see...

xxxxxxx


----------



## Damelottie

aimeegaby said:


> LL are you a lesley bean? i always thought you were, but thats cos you mod our gayboard ... but then i thought you might not be!


   at Lesley Bean     
Nope - but I'm also totally 100% off men - hate the blinking lot of em so gawd knows what that makes me


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## pippilongstockings

becky100 said:


> p - and congratulations again I see...
> 
> xxxxxxx


thanks becky :0)


----------



## Dominique123456

I can give an update on this topic too. We used my egg and a uk 'anonymous' sperm donor. We're a lesbian couple so we knew people would figure out that we used a donor. But we have, right from the beginning, not wanted to discuss the donor at all with family or friends. I've found that my dad and brother have struggled with not knowing as much as they would like the most whereas the girls in the family have just accepted it. 

I agree with Becky100 that I feel the details should be given to our baby and noone else. Otherwise people can't help but over-focus on the few details we know about the donor. Say we knew that the donor liked football as soon as our baby touched a ball his grandma's or grandpa's would start saying 'oo look, you'll play football just like your dad' (I know, I know - it's not dad but you'll be amazed how many people can't remember to call him a 'donor'!). Anyway - it has been sooo stressful resisting telling people especially my family as they have frequently tried to press me for information. But I've held firm and not revealed any personality or hobbies about the donor and I'm really glad I have. Our baby is his own person and is free to choose the things he is interested in.

We'll probably have more questions because our donor is half asian and so baby has slightly tanned skin (which people have commented on - which I think is rude by the way).

I think I'm rambling now... not sure if I have added anything to the discussion.


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## Dominique123456

LL - I read this and thought it was an amazing read. It's an interview with a panel of 7 donor conceived children (one is a boy with a single mum) and I found it really honest and interesting. I think it's been posted on this thread before but I'll post it again: http://www.donor-conception-network.org/Nottingham%20_YP_panel_%202008.pdf

/links


----------



## leoaimee

dom - lovely to hear from you on this thread as always!

congrats PIPI on the BFP!  wondabraaaaaaaaaaa!

LL - ahhh not a lesley bean then??  hasnt moding our thread even made it cross your mind?     

i can testify that spaykay is GORGEOUS!!  as i have met her!


----------



## pippilongstockings

aimeegaby said:


> congrats PIPI on the BFP! wondabraaaaaaaaaaa!
> 
> Thanks aimee
> 
> Loving the "lesley bean" thing btw, it's really made me giggle! I'm trying to find reasons to use it as I know it will make my dh chuckle too


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Hi!   I've been reading this thread on and off for a few months now and find it really interesting. 

We havn't got our baby yet   (its still waiting in that corner to come and meet us!!)   But it will be a sperm donor child (and depending how my embryos get on it may be a egg donor in the future too!)  

But we have talked about if we would tell the child where it came from. Of course in little mini world i would want to just ignore the fact that its come from a donor as I don't want the child thinking about anyone else being their 'mum or dad'  But in the real world this would not work in mini world as not to tell would mean that not telling NO ONE! at all, nada.  Our parents and siblings know and just in case they let it slip would be awful.

My dad found out that his mother was not his mother when he was 23.  His mother died giving birth to him. His older brother knew and used to say 'weird' things to dad about, "mums not our mum" dad thought he was just being stupid and ignored it. When he found out he was devasted and never got over it.  He thought the wicked woman who basically ignored him was his mother for 23 yrs.  Not the beautiful woman in the pictures.  He felt betrayed by his father which ended up him hating his father. 

Our fear on not telling the child is that if we die and it finds out who does it turn to for answers? 

So we intend to tell. We are aware of problems it may cause, the usual teenage tanrtrums of "you're not my father/mother, so don't tell me what to do!!" But what child hasn't said "I wish you weren't my mother/father"  I remember saying to my mum that i wish i was adopted so i could find my real family!   This lasted a few minutes!! 

IMO telling from the start just cuts out so many problems in the future and stops any uncertainty about the child wondering why he hasn't got dads big ears (which run in DHs family!!)   

I can fully understand why some do not tell and Yes i agree that there must be so many children that do not know, but I do not trust my mum and her mouth!    

Hopefully the child will accept it and not be bothered by it and be grateful that we went to the lengths of the earth to have him/her.  

The stories on people saying the donor child looking like the recipient makes me think of the time when i babysat for my friends baby. I went out with her and someone i knew thought she was mine cos we had the same hair colour!   

I've prattled on now so i'll leave it at that! 

BTW Dh snorted when i told him about lesley Bean!


----------



## Spaykay

Aimee - are you trying to turn LL   thanks for the complement BTW but I didn't get to meet LL as she hadn't slept   But I have met LL b4 and she is GRRRRRRREAT!

Pipi - congrats hun, you must be thrilled!

Kay xxx


----------



## pippilongstockings

Thanks Kay, we're relieved more than anything as we were close to giving up and accepting the amazing luck we had in having our gorgeous boy    How's motherhood treating you?  And OMG are you a lesley bean??  I had no idea  

Mini - ha ha my mum can't keep quiet about ANYTHING bless her so there would be no chance of her keeping schtum about something like this!  As for people seeing likenesses between dad's and DC children, everyone thinks my son is the spitting image of DH (and he is!).  We've had so many people say "are you sure??".......yes I'm sure!

P x


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥




----------



## Spaykay

Pipi -   no I'm not a Leslie Bean   Aimee, what have you started   sometimes wish I was though!

Kay xxx


----------



## pippilongstockings

Ha ha didn't think so Kay!  I'm sure it's easier sometimes though - my house would be a lot tidier without a stinky man about the place    And I'd look a lot less of a scruff wearing my DH's clothes if he was a lady ha ha!

Lesley bean though, that still makes me chuckle


----------



## Spaykay

you jusr wanted an excuse to use it didn't you  

Kay xxx


----------



## pippilongstockings




----------



## Pootle77

The number of times DH and I have been out with either of our foster sons, and been called Mummy and Daddy.  People just assume they are genetically ours because we're out in public with them!    The best is when the one who can talk turns round and shouts "That's not my Mum!", then you get really strange looks!

Guess what I'm trying to say is people will put their own thoughts and interpretations onto any children and who they may/may not look like whether they're donor conceived or not.


----------



## Spaykay

SOoooo many people said I look like EG in England   She's actually really noothing like me at all!!!!! Except for she's gorgeous and so am I (Aimee said I was so I must be!!!)

Kay xxx


----------



## pippilongstockings

Oh Kay, I'm desperate to see a picture of your little girl she sounds gorgeous!
P x


----------



## leoaimee

pippilongstockings said:


> Ha ha didn't think so Kay! I'm sure it's easier sometimes though - my house would be a lot tidier without a stinky man about the place  And I'd look a lot less of a scruff wearing my DH's clothes if he was a lady ha ha!
> 
> Lesley bean though, that still makes me chuckle


i think gaby wishes* I *was a lot more tidy!!

and let me reassure you being a lesley bean isnt all the fun its cracked up to be!!

gabs told me 'people with more in common than us get divorced every day!'  did make me chuckle ...


----------



## Spaykay

oooo nooooo....i'll stick to being a man bean  then.... 
K x


----------



## pippilongstockings

oh no aimee, i presumed an all-girl relationship would be harmonius and spotlessly clean! You've ruined the mystique for me!

think i'll stick to men then too <sigh>


----------



## Spaykay

Back to the issue of telling the child about the donor then   

kay xxx


----------



## leoaimee

i even have to endure gabs watching formula one on the telly (and other horrendous sporting tv events) although luckily she doesnt play an x box or other horrid computer game type entertainment system!  that was my main reason for becoming a lesley bean     i said it again!   

no spaykay is right ... BACK ON TOPIC!!!!!


----------



## Spaykay

Just one thought. My DD has a very lonnnnng tongue and I know some things are genetic, like being able to roll your tongue. We did it at school once and were told to ask if our mum or dad could roll their tongue....what if the kid realised that neither of their parents could?

Kay xxx


----------



## LiziBee

Believe me, it has happened (I was that science teacher....)
Lizi.x


----------



## pippilongstockings

Oh no, that's awful Lizi!  How did you handle that one??


----------



## drownedgirl

LiziBee said:


> Believe me, it has happened (I was that science teacher....)
> Lizi.x


THis possibility was debated in another thread: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=209070.0


----------



## LiziBee

Carefully... can't give too much away except to say that I HAD to teach it (it was part of the GCSE exam syllabus) and that ultimately the parents were understanding.
Lizi.x


----------



## Spaykay

I think the long tongue must come from the donor's side...it's reallllly long and pointy   She will sooooo be able to touch her nose with it!!!!

Kay xxx


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥




----------



## Spaykay

Yeh...I'm well jealous!


----------



## mojitomummy

i hadn't realised this board had been take off and put back on...

i think maybe this lighthearted chat is quite good then!
You lesley beans! ha ha

drowned girl - thanks for link - as i say over there i dined out on the fact that i could roll my tounge and my parents can't xxxxx


----------



## pippilongstockings

My son has, ummmm, 'unique' eyebrows!  Everyone always comments on them as they really are quite crazy    None of my side have properly crazy eyebrows so I presume that was an undisclosed feature of our donor!  People are always asking where he gets them from and I blame DH hee hee (even with people who know we used donor sperm).  I like the fact that he has something so different that is just 'him'.  Although we've both agreed that if he wants them tamed when he's older we won't stand in his way


----------



## leoaimee

@ e's long tongue kay!!

lulu may well get really curyly hair ... you can alomost see it when her baby hair is wet ... and no one in our family  has really curly  hair.  except my neph who has a fro thanks to his daddy!    but weirdly gabs and i both thought she was going to have curyly hair when i was pregnant .... but i guess we cld be wrong, she doenst have much of the stuff to be honest!!!


----------



## juju81

What an nice change to have some fun on this thread!!

However, the rolling tongue debate, I never used to be able to roll my tongue but now I can, neither my mum or dad can so maybe its just a myth as I know they are both my biological parents  

!!!


----------



## drownedgirl

juju81 said:


> However, the rolling tongue debate, I never used to be able to roll my tongue but now I can, neither my mum or dad can so maybe its just a myth as I know they are both my biological parents


I believe it is not the simple Mendelian trait some schools treat it as it...


----------



## LiziBee

drownedgirl said:


> I believe it is not the simple Mendelian trait some schools treat it as it...


It's not BUT it's also complicated by the fact that you have to learn to do it and if you never found out how to as a small child it can be very challenging to do.
Lizi.x


----------



## kandee

hello
I m thinking to donate my eggs ,anonymous,to a clinic.I agree with 2 different idea,telling or not,but you should also consider the donor's choice.In my country its still a taboo, donating eggs.It will ruin my future family if another child comes and say how could you sell me(this will the worst) or just say,hello I'd like to meet you!And my future husband wont accept this situation and will leave me(oh my god no)I want to help another family and also afraid from problems which will occur in future.Also they give very little amount of money here,that you cant even believe.waiting for your support or vice versa.thanks


----------



## indekiwi

Hi Kandee,

I completely understand your desire to retain your anonymously after egg donation.    

However, the reality in this country is that you cannot remain anonymous after any offspring turns 18.  This isn't something that is negotiable - it is a legal requirement that governs all donors in the UK.  Same thing applies regarding payment.  By law no clinic can pay you more than reasonable expenses.  Given these two facts, and if you continue to wish to donate your eggs, you should consider donating in a different country, such as Spain or Czech or Cyprus, where donors continue to have complete anonymity.  

Good luck in your deliberations!

A-Mx


----------



## Spaykay

Kandee - thanks for that. What country do yuo live in? I don't think the baby will think you sold them though as it is your egg you are 'donating', not a baby. Although you get some money for it I never feel that I paid my donor for DD, just helped towards the gift of the egg that helped my husband and I make DD. I really appreciate how you want to be anonymous though. OUr donor is anonymous.

Kay xxx


----------



## kandee

Hi again,

Thanks for your answers,made me relief,eggs are going to collect in Cyprus next month,but no idea where they will go. And I also want to learn which county's rights will be valid(in my county, I have rights to remain anonymous,in UK ,the child(+1 have rights to contact me. I'm reading the posts and see how they really want it (maybe helps me during my injections )I hope they'll have a baby without any problem and I really believe it, as being totally healthy,never smoke, never use alcohol and exercising,and also beautiful(don't know it affects the genetics just kidding)  

good luck  to me and all families!


----------



## Spaykay

Good luck and I hope your eggies make someones dream come true. EG's donor must have been a hottie coz she's gorgeous!  

Kay xxx


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## LiziBee

Had an interesting conversation with DD1 last night
DD: one day will I be as tall as you mummy?
Me: one day you might even be taller, your donor was tall so you might grow big as well.
DD: Can I have an even taller donor inside of me then I can be reeeeaaaallly big?

Just for info, I'm 5ft1 and a smidgin, DH is 5ft11 and I think the donor was 6ft2.

I think she's getting the idea, just need to work on some of those finer details!  I do honestly think this 'drip feeding' of information will work, she just seems so at ease with it all (and in the end isn't that what I'm after?)

Love to all
Lizi.x


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## mojitomummy

lovely xx


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## Damelottie

Ahhh -


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## Spaykay

Awwww blesss



Kay xxx


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## emmaboo73

lovely lizibee


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## dochinka99

This is my experience in why it is critcal to tell our children about their biological background.

My DD has always known the truth about her DI conception. Last week, she found her half sister through the internet. (www.donorsiblingregistry.com) The half sister was as excited as my daughter- so no problems there.

The reason why I am saying it is important to know is because the older sister lives 3 blocks from my parents! The two sisters didn't grow up in the same town, but what happens if they did! What about if she had been a he, and they had children! My daughter spends every summer with her Grandparents.

I always thought this was a remote chance of meeting your half sibling in this way, but 3 blocks away is a bit scary!
Too close for comfort in the dating pool. The doctor that we both used was 30 minutes away from our homes and there are several clinics that we could have chosen from. It's not as if there was only one doctor and one donor. Multiple choices and a small big city.

Please tell your children .. the chances that they might meet their half sibling even without them knowing it is too high in my mind now that this has occured!


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## Dominique123456

that's pretty close! Glad for your daughter that the meeting went well. Can i ask how old she is? Did she always intend on looking for siblings? Do you have more than one child? hope u don't mind me asking just curious.


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## dochinka99

We don't live in the same town.  We are only there over the summers.  They have been exchanging emails and starting to make phone calls.  They haven't met in person.  

At the same time that I found out about the half sister,  I also learned about a half brother.  He doesn't have an active interest in connecting to his younger half sisters,  his mother is more interested than he is.

The funny thing is that when us three mothers described our children,  the personalities were so similiar.  The mother in describing her daughter could have been describing  my child.
  
I was happy for my DD to have a real half sister out there,  but I was just as pleased for myself to see the similiaries that the mother was saying.  It made me realize how the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. The 3 children are so close.


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## dochinka99

I posted a nice long response, and then lost the posting!

To say it short, we have since moved from the area and we will only be back over the summer. In the meantime, the two girls have been exchanging emails and phone calls.

I think for a first conversation on the phone- it went okay.



Dominique123456 said:


> that's pretty close! Glad for your daughter that the meeting went well. Can i ask how old she is? Did she always intend on looking for siblings? Do you have more than one child? hope u don't mind me asking just curious.


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## Dominique123456

that's so interesting thanks for sharing that


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## leoaimee

thanks dochinka was really intersting to hear your experience.  

our dd is 6 months and we are really committed to helping her in anyway with finding out about sibs or donor when the time comes.  our donor had no proven fertility so she will be the big sister to all of the children that could come from him.


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## Spaykay

Lovely to hear   As EG is from an anonymous donor I doubt she'll ever find out about any genetic siblings. Shame really for her.

Kay xxx


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## leoaimee

i think the sibling website its poss to match donor characheristics evene if the donor was anon so maybe she cld find sibs if she wanted kay .....


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## dochinka99

The donor that I knew about was donor #33 at my clinic. I had some vague ideas about his height, education, country of origin, race. hair and eye color. But that is all that I had. However knowing it was donor #33 enabled me to find other sister/brothers that had already posted who used the same clinic.



Spaykay said:


> Lovely to hear  As EG is from an anonymous donor I doubt she'll ever find out about any genetic siblings. Shame really for her.
> 
> Kay xxx





aimeegaby said:


> i think the sibling website its poss to match donor characheristics evene if the donor was anon so maybe she cld find sibs if she wanted kay .....


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## 9£Bundle

Dochinka - I think you are fab supporting your daughter the way you are on this issue.    And thank you for reminding us all that its a small world out there. It does tend to back up the report (damned if I can recall where I read it though   ) that donor conceived children are more interested in finding their siblings than the donor themselves. Which I suspect surprised many, myself included.

Thats not to say they don't want to learn about the donor, just that significant numbers more interested in their siblings.

Dochinka & (no so) LO   and good luck. I hope all works out well for you all.
9£Bundle
x


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## pinkbabe

Hi Guys,
hope you dont mind me jumping on, but i will be going onto a donor egg recipient list in jan, and my thoughts so far, are that i would not want to tell my child, if lucky enough to be successful about where the eggs came from, because thats all they are is eggs. It is just mass of cells, until they are fertilised with my DH sperm, and then it will be me that will nurture, mould, gestate and give birth to them, so as far as im concerned there is nothing to discuss with my child. However reading all the posts so far, im wondering if im a bad person, or at least selfish...now im not sure! Im confused  , but it dosent take much  

Karen x


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## drownedgirl

Karen, while I think we as mothers have no doubts at all that these children we have grown from embryo, given birth to, fed and cared for are, without a doubt, our children, and have no "other mother" (and I say that where our donor was a close friend who is our twins' godmother)... it's not going to be what we feel that matters.... we can't know how our children will feel. And while we may feel that it will all be Ok as long as keep it a secret, secrets have a habit of getting out!

I discovered not long ago that my mother had concealed from me the fact i was born with 6 fingers on each hand... she died a long time ago... the fact totally haunts me and I can't stop thinking that she must have been ashamed of me, and also wondering what other "lies" she told me. OTOH, my father was adopted, and I always knew I wasn't related genetically to any of his family, grandparents, aunt, cousins etc... and I have never really shed any tears over it, though I would be very interested to know more about his origins. In working on my family tree, I am just as interested in his birthmother and her ancestors, as I am in my adoptive grandparents, and theirs...

I think we owe it to our precious children to be open and honest with them, not to seem ashamed, and to give them what info we have. That's certainly how I would like to be treated if I was donor conceived, anyway.

But there is a lot of shame and secrecy about infertility, and I think in part heat's why some people decide to try to conceal the use of a donor.


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## Dominique123456

pinkbabe - i know that reluctance to say is also in part because we don't want our little ones to feel 'different' somehow and we don't want to feel like 'different' from other parents. If my baby didn't have two mummies I know I would be soo tempted not to say anything at all. - And that's coming from someone who has seen the effects of not telling on close family members and has personal experience. Why? Well I just want my baby to have a perfect beautiful life and I don't want him to feel doubt about himself or his parents. But that's MY fears projecting onto him. In reality dc children I have met and indeed children who are raised by a step-dad from a baby are perfectly HAPPY and all the research points to telling being the best thing and not a big deal if disclosed early on.


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## Spaykay

Pinkbabe - firstly, whatever decision you make, it will not make you a BAD or GOOD person. I also belive that the whole nurture etc part is the most important, but I also know that I and others go through live looking at similarities and differences caused by nature with my family. I would personally feel bad every time LO asked me a question about her features or her skills knowing that they were not genetically linked to my side of the family but her thinking they may be. YES I am scared about how she will feel knowing she started from a donor egg and am scared about how I may need to support her questions at times, but as it was my only option for growing a baby inside me...I took that choice and will have to cope with this myself and help her understand it. Genetics is not the most important part of life and devekloping, but it is there. you have plenty of time to think about what you feel best (even when a child is with you, you may feel different by then). Good luck.

Kay xxx


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## dochinka99

Pinkbabe, my child was conceived through DI, not DE.  But our stories are similiar. I am a single parent and when I was pg,  I told everyone that the child was from by friend, George.  He knew that I was saying this.. and he knew it wasn't the truth, but it helped me keep my secret and I didn't want to say unknown father.  I said it because I didn't want gossip.  

However, after my daugter was born,  I couldn't do it anymore. I felt that by not acknowledging her true DI connection,  I was embarrassed and as a result, was shaming her.  I realized that I must become comfortable with it and not be embarrassed.  

This doesn't mean you need to tell every one the truth.  Most people do not need to know it.  I would encourage you to tell your child the truth from the beginning in the most simplest words.  It will help you come to ease with it as your baby gets older.  When  your child is born and becomes older  (child still, but older) and you see a positive quality that you imagine comes from the donor, you can mention it.  Let the child embrace all parts of his/her heritage.


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## pinkbabe

Hi dochinka, Kay, Dominique, Drownedgirl
Thanks for that, i suppose everyone is individual as has there own circumstances and reasons for telling or not to tell, and what ever the choice it has to be right for that individual i think. I think some of the time people get confused with what they have been donated, and it is sometimes compared to adoption, in the sense of informing the child of their background etc or not. 

All the very best to you and your families, and in any of the choices you make

Take care 
Karen x


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## olivia m

Hi Karen
I would strongly endorse everything that has been said by the others who have responded to you, but I would just add that whilst no-one can force you to 'tell' your child, by exercising your choice (not to tell), you are limiting your child's choices for the future, and potentially putting relationships in the family at risk.  Secrets in families are very hard to keep, children are often aware of them at a subconscious level and they are prone to come out at awkward times.  Telling from early days is SO much easier.  Have a look at our website www.dcnetwork.org for children's stories and books for parents to help the whole process along.
And whilst donor conception IS different to adoption, the cells that you receive in egg or sperm donation are not neutral components.  They are genetic material that contain DNA that will help to form who your child is.  Your contribution as nurturing mother (both in your womb and then outside) will have a massive impact and no-one else will ever be Mum, but it is not helpful for you or your child to deny the role played by your donor.
The infertility story is ours, the future belongs to our children and they deserve the truth.
Olivia


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## pinkbabe

Hi Olivia, 
i can take onboard what you say, and you do have some good points, and i certainly will have a look at that website you have mentioned. However, on the emphasis of the child, i do not feel embarassed, or feel its easier not to tell, but i still cant get my head around the reasons why, there is an overwhelming need to tell the child. And i certainly dont see how it will limit my childs choices in the future! I would never deny the role of the donor, they are the most wonderful people in the world to someone like myself, but my own personal feelings are that of not wanting to put my child through any confusion, hurting or shock, informing them that they do not have any of my DNA, but of a loving, nurturing and happy upbringing, knowing they are truly loved by their parents. I think i am very concerned on how my child would feel finding out, if we were to sit them down and explain, but then i guess you could say the same the other way around, and the child finding out later on in life, by accident. My thoughts and feelings are still of not telling, but its still early days, and theres along road ahead, so i guess i still have bit more time to consider things

Karen x


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

My father found out his 'mother' was not his actual mother a few week before he married my mum. This was by his birth certificate.  His birth mother died giving birth to him and his father rermarried quite soon after.  His step mother was an evil  so to find out he had been lied to all those years by his father and find out his 'mother' that was evil to him was actually not his mother was devastating. I don't think he ever got over it. In those days i supose these things were never talked about and his father thought they could fall into a family life without the disruption of telling my dad.

We used donor sperm and have always felt that if we didn't tell then we wouldn't be able to tell ANYONE AT ALL as some how secretss have a habit of getting out. We ran through a senario of if they fiound out after we had died and imagine the confusion they would have as they would havee no one to turn to for any ansswers as to why when where and WHO! 

I couldn't do it to them. It is everyones choice and each descion has its pros and cons and we are prepared for the "your not my father"  etc but i said it to my mum and dad and they clearly are my bio parents!!   
Children are resilient to information and done at an early age they will just accept it and see it as the norm for them. our child will have DHs mannerisms as they will copy them, they will speak like him and hopefully have his values.
I wil explain the fight we had to get him/her and that they are most certainly made from love  

i just think keeping things from people is detrimental to them in the long run. 

A lady i know has just found out her mother is alive after 40 yrs. She was told she was dead (someone made that decsion yrs ago for her own good    ) she now has so many differnent emotions running through her she doesn't know if she is coming or going. she hated her mum and thought she was put to bed but now its all come back to haunt her.


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## olivia m

Hi Karen
It is very early days for you and there is lots of time to consider all aspects - actually becoming a parent rather than having it as a theoretical prospect often changes peoples minds.  It feels so hard and so wrong to lie to the child you love so much...and that is what you can find yourself doing when they ask about likenesses in the family (and they all do).
If you read the Telling and Talking booklet for parents of children age 0 - 7 you will discover that the best way of going about 'telling' is to start with very simple language about 'mummy and daddy needing some help to have a baby' and then building on that....rather than sitting them down to tell them something important.  What you imagine would be upsetting news is simply neutral information for a small child.  There is no question of hurting or shocking a child - that's much more likely to happen if they found out by accident in teenage years.  Young children accept the information very easily and it has NO impact whatsoever on the warmth of relationships in the family.  As children grow, change and develop views and ideas of their own, they will have thoughts and feelings about their conception and their donor but these are easily managed if parents have been honest from the start and the subject is on the family agenda.
Lots to think about - do look at our web site and you may want to think about coming to one of our Preparation for DC Parenthood workshops.  There is one in Manchester in April 2010.
Olivia


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## pinkbabe

Hi Mini

What an upsetting situation, im so sorry about that, what your family members have been through. In the case of the lady you know, her mother must have made the decision that was comfortable to her at the time, and we will never know the reasons behind that.   It just shows you dosent it, every circumstance is different, and we all have our reasons for telling or not telling!

Karen x


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## Damelottie

pinkbabe said:


> a bad person, or at least selfish...


Nooooooooooooooo - please don't think that . The fact that you are thinking about these issues, and how they will affect your child/ren shows you are neither bad or selfish . To have a donor conceived family is a wonderful and somewhat complex  way to have a family. There is a lot to think about and telling or not is another part of that process.

The girls on here have given some great replies - and I can always associate with some of the thoughts/feelings.
I _have_ decided to tell and always knew I would. As I needed donor sperm, I would have had to find a way of explaining that anyway, so the donor egg explanation will be a natural extension iykwim. I already tell Alfie about the big plane mummy went on to fetch him   as I want it all to be as natural and 'normal' to him as possible.

One of the beauties of FF is that our children will have so many opportunities of meeting other families who are the same, which I can only imagine normalises things even more.

Take care whatever your decided


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## pinkbabe

Ladylottie, thats  great,  gives me more thoughts   x Alfie looks beautiful!

Olivia, i may attend one of those workshops, thanks x


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## mojitomummy

congrats on your pregnancy mighty mini
i think what you say sums up my thoughts
and we went to some dcn meetings which were really helpful to talk to other people in our situation ..


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Thanks Becky   I haven't joined the DCN yet but we intend to. 
It wouldl be nice to attend the workshops. Would we do it when the baby iis born?

Pinkbabe - I wish we didn't have to tell   But in our hearts i know we do   all the best hun


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## pinkbabe

all the very best to you and your future x


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## olivia m

Sorry Karen, I gave you wrong info about our Preparation for DC Parenthood workshop.  The one in Manchester is on 6th March (one whole day) and there are others in London on Saturdays 16th and 23rd January (both dates) and evenings of 12th and 19th April (again both dates).  These workshops are for individuals and couples who have not yet conceived.  
Our Telling and Talking workshops are for parents to support them in sharing information with their child and with others.  The 2010 programme starts in April and all details and booking forms (for both workshops) are on our web site www.dcnetwork.org
Olivia


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## pinkbabe

Thanks Olivia, i will consider them, cheers

Karen x


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## pippilongstockings

♥ Mighty Mini ♥ said:


> Thanks Becky  I haven't joined the DCN yet but we intend to.
> It wouldl be nice to attend the workshops. Would we do it when the baby iis born?
> 
> Pinkbabe - I wish we didn't have to tell  But in our hearts i know we do  all the best hun


Mini - definitely worth joining if you do intend to tell your child about being donor conceived, the support and practical help has been invaluable for us. And as a plus point you'll be able to meet me


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥




----------



## LiziBee

pinkbabe said:


> my own personal feelings are that of not wanting to put my child through any confusion, hurting or shock, informing them that they do not have any of my DNA, but of a loving, nurturing and happy upbringing, knowing they are truly loved by their parents. I think i am very concerned on how my child would feel finding out, if we were to sit them down and explain, but then i guess you could say the same the other way around,


Karen - I just wanted to say that we have been very open with our two DDs right from the start, so it will never be a shock to either girl that they don't have DH's DNA. Children are remarkable in how they assimilate and deal with information, provided they are told early enough. The other thing I wanted to suggest is why not write a letter to your future child now, tell them about about the need you feel for a child, tell them how hard the journey has been and then tell them how much you want them. Then put it away and then when they are an adult and they ask why you did it you will have the evidence there.

The DCN have been the most fantastic help and support. Before I looked into the issues in detail I was very sceptical of their approach but now I understand it and would urge anyone who hasn't been to a talking and telling workshop to go.

Pip, Mini - hope to meet you both at a meeting one day!

Lizi.x


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## Dominique123456

for how long can i just tell him that the storks brought him?     

(funnily enough i think that kids weren't told otherwise they would happily believe that story forever! I never even thought about biological relationships!)


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## pippilongstockings

Ha ha my grandad always used to say we were left underneath a gooseberry bush    Would be a lot easier if that was true


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## Bloofuss

Hi ladies

Always following the discussions and find them a great help.  I personally know that I will be trying my hardest to be open and honest with my DS but find the whole situation so difficult and a right emotional rollercoaster at times.  he is only 9 months and I love him more than anything in the world but I am always scared that this love will fade     strange I know??  Also WHO and WHEN do you tell - only close family and a few very close friends know that DS was conceived via DE.  I don't know whether to tell others before I tell DS as it is more his information to tell than  mine??  Somtimes it never crosses my mind and then other times.......... glad I have others in the same boat

Bloo x


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## LiziBee

Bloo - tell him now, the sooner you do it the easier it will be. As for telling other people, we have recently decided to make sure our nieces and nephews all know so that if our LOs say something to their cousins then it wont cause a whole load of questions to be thrown at them (if you knew my niece you'd understand!) but pretty much no one outside of our immediate family and our GP know and I don't intend to tell them either!
HTH
Lizi.x


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## olivia m

Hi Bloo
You are absolutely not alone in your dilemma about when to start telling and whether or not your child should be the first to know.  Many of our members struggle with this.  I think it's a really understandable instinct to feel that it must be right that they should know first, but actually because children don't fully understand about DC until they are a good bit older (approximately between 6/half and 8/half) putting off 'telling' until this age becomes a much bigger deal.  Parents can find that there is never a right time to start doing it and sharing with family so many years down the line is likely to bring the reaction of, 'Why didn't you trust us with this info before'.  It can also be a burden for a child to have to tell relatives for the first time about their origins.  Much better that relatives and close friends have known much earlier on so that they can then be in a position to believe and support your child should they mention, 'the kind lady who gave mummy an egg so that she could have me'.
As Lizi says, beginning to tell early is SO much easier.  You then have a simple story to build on as your child gets older and I promise you it won't make any difference to how your LO thinks of you.  You are your son's beloved mum and always will be.
Olivia


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## drownedgirl

Having talked with DS1 very early on about his origins (via natural conception) first of all it was all about him growing in my tummy, and his birthm etc... later we included how he grew from a bit of mummy, bit of daddy... then about the seed/egg thing, then later he asked how it got there and I told him briefly (he was about 3 1/2) and then we discussed the possibility of a sibling, a bit then about our DE pregnancy (he was 4 1/2) , then a few times the subject came up about similarity, and we mentioned DE again, then we talked about twins and two eggs vis one egg splitting (he thought twins were two sperm)  we've also talked about infertility/miscarriage,  and about epigenetics! 

I actually think "telling" is easier than not... just take the opportunity to build in family stories and stories about the child's birth into your life .... maybe using a book for the jump off, or just make it something you do sometimes, say early in the morning if you're lying in bed... just drip feed a little bit of info at a time, don't offer too much... answer questions honestly.

So, haven't mentioned DE to the babies YET but if they come and blow raspberries on my tummy, I say "That's where you grew when you were tiny babies!" and when they play with their dolls I say "That's how tiny you were when you came out of mummies tummy!"

You could stick some photos on your fridge of the baby as a newborn.. or their scan pic even, and mention it sometimes, along with other family pics.... I think from about 2 1/2 the stories get a little more elaborate.. with ds1 we didn't say much about conception at first, it was about our pg with him and birth (ambulance dash to hospital!) but later  did say it was a lovely surprise when we found he was growing.. i had to call Daddy up at work and say "Are you sititng down!"

We took all our children to a teaparty at our clinic, if they have another, it will be a good chance to say "We're going to a party to see the nice dr who helped us to grow you!"    and of course, we know our donor and her family so we can weave that it... yesterday I said to our donor that  Mair.ead  makes the exact same face her DD does... we talk about it amongst ourselves as well... I said to DP the other day "You know E (donor's DD) loves tomatoes too!"

Just relax.. the telling bit (to a small child) is easy, really.

I have meant to make a photo album for them about their origins... not done it yet, but I think that's one good way to introduce it all. 

I read somewhere that those who feel strongly  you should TELL are scared about about the INTERNAL threat to the family of secrecy
Those who feel strongly you should NOT TELL are scared about the EXTERNAL threat to the family from others who may not understand  or who may treat the DC child badly.


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## Spaykay

♥ Mighty Mini ♥ said:


> Pinkbabe - I wish we didn't have to tell  But in our hearts i know we do  all the best hun


This is how I feel too. It is my babies right to know her past and how she began, I do not want to deny her that, I just hope I do it in a way that will feel natural for her and she will realise and understand why she knows nothing about half of her genetic build up, but that she is very loved by many and extrememly special...also that how we have brought her up will make her the peron he is and will be with the deicions she makes on her path through life.

Bloo - we talk openly infront of LO about how she began life and tell her little stories. i hope she'll just know rather than need to be told  it's very hard

Olivia - very interesting what you say about letting friends and family know. Very few now about LO as we wanted it to be her choice for people to know, but you have a strong point on this being a burden for them, I will discuss with DH. On the other hand, people will then start finding out and I have some good friends whose children are not particularly kind and I know would throw this info at LO and use it wrongly and may hurt her. They have done so with their own half sister (shared mummy not daddy) ... this would worry me.

Kay xxx


----------



## drownedgirl

i think if the dc story fills you with joy it will be irrestible to share it

i cant resist talking often with my 3
about pg and their births because i love to think of it and relive it

the de aspect also makes me happy... such a selfless gift... the end of our sad losses....


----------



## Bloofuss

Hi ladies

Glad I have all you guys that are in a similar situation it is such a miraculous way of conceiving a child and sometimes I feel it is so surreal but I know I have to deal with it.  I guess I have to come to terms with the fact that me being unable to produce eggs via IVF was unexplained  HOW do I get round telling DS that when I don't know myself

Thanks for all your help/support and advice always greatly received.

Bloo x


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Spaykay - We have only told our parents and siblings and 3 close friends. Other family members do not know. Will have a think about that one!


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## mojitomummy

interesting. I've already tried to start dropping in conversation to start practicing the kind of languauge I'll use- eg when we go past the harley street I'll say something like - thats where you were made with the help of some kind docotors and a donor

We told a few friends and family at the time i was going through IVF but i haven't made a big thing of it since. If any one ever asks I'd be truthful but i don't feel the need to tell everyone.  I agree with ethe whole "its his info" thing but I've always thought is I don't want an adult to find out whilst Z is there because i wouldn't want them to act shocked and Z to misinterpret that as shock being bad rather than just not understanding. So i would like everyone he is surounded with to be comfortable with it as well. But i hope that he will be and therefore he'll be able to answer any questions later on.  But although i want it to be a part of who he is I don't want it to be the main thing. Eg i'd like people to think of him as "the footballer" or "the funny one" or even "the blonde one" rather than the ivf or DC child. Does that make sense?

Out of interest - people planning not to tell about the donor aspect - are you telling people about the IVF aspect?


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## leoaimee

i love this thread!  

drowendgirl - you always write so well, and have very interesting things to say.  loved the thing about internal and external threat.

lady lottie - (sorry this question has come from reading a few things on diff boards that you posted) do you see yourself ever having another partner and therefor Alfie having a 'dad' ....?

Olivia - hooray youre back!  thought you had gone! 

kay - maybe the thing with the family you mentioned and the half sibs could be more to do with their own internal dynamic ... i dont know the back ground but i would guess there may have been some kind of family fracture and then reformation and that can be terribly disruptive to the children involved .speaking from experience .... i know my sister and i were sometimes very unkind to the step sibs that we 'given' but i think in retrospect it was coming from a place of real hurt and upset ... poss this is true for the children you mentioned ...and they wldnt really be concerned with EG;s origins

hi dom, mini, becky100, kay, bloo, lizi, pippi, and pink babe


i think some times its hard to imagine how one goes about drip feeding the info regarding donor origin ... but forexample when people comment on lulu's olive skin and brown eyes its v easy to mention the donor, we went to italy in november so we talked about our donors nationality .... for us it comes up quite easily.  i had worried when preg that talking about donor might have been 'hard' on gabs but she and her family like to talk about him.

i did some times worry for lulu about male role models but she has three uncles and three male cousins a granpa who she sees every week and we are really friendly with a couple and their son where primary child carer is the daddy and we see him every week too.

gabs and i have three nephews 12, 8 (gabs brothers children) and 2 ( my sister's son) we have had various conversations with the big two about lulu's donor origins and the 2 year old has taken it as completely in his stride that his cousin has two mummies ....children really do seem to take things in their stride if it has a neutral emotional meaning.

of the new parent friends ive met since havign lulu i do sometimes wonder how its going to be for them/me when all the babies come to an age where they ask about why lulu doesnt have a daddy and therefor donor conception .... have felt a bit nervous about asking.


----------



## DizziSquirrel

Spaykay said:


> ♥ Mighty Mini ♥ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pinkbabe - I wish we didn't have to tell  But in our hearts i know we do  all the best hun
> 
> 
> 
> This is how I feel too. It is my babies right to know her past and how she began, I do not want to deny her that, I just hope I do it in a way that will feel natural for her and she will realise and understand why she knows nothing about half of her genetic build up, but that she is very loved by many and extrememly special...also that how we have brought her up will make her the peron he is and will be with the deicions she makes on her path through life.
> 
> Kay xxx
Click to expand...

Sums it up for me too - but Dh is less keen on telling - he tenses up when I mention DE  
so I fear it will be v.hard as A gets bigger, we did however reach the to tell descion pre ET so I know Dh will keep his word.
A few friends and family know but not all - and the family knows 'cause I told my Dad, and he told his siblings . . .

DRGirl I agree you do write well thank you 

~Dizzi~


----------



## leoaimee

hi dizzy  

fingers crossed for dh


----------



## Dominique123456

slightly off topic I guess - but I was thinking of doing some role playing and games around bullying and why people are scared of 'difference' and how to respond when people say mean things designed to cause a reaction and hurt you. I'll always remember a boy in my school who had been in a terrible accident and half his face had been v badly burnt - he might have been shy about it but he took it in his stride and was the most popular boy in school. I was bullied because my ear stick out a little bit. I think that bullying victims would become victims no matter what the 'thing' they were going to be bullied about was. If I had just said (when they poked fun of my ears) -"yeah and what of it?" they would have stopped. But becuase I didn't have the confidence or skills to reply like that - and took everything kids said to me to heart. 

I'm not saying that victims are to blame - just that our job as parents is not to ensure that are children are as conformist as possible. I don't want to teach my child that they need to mould themselves all the time to peer pressure. I see my job is to equip them will skills and confidence to deal with negativity - encourage leadership not follower behaviour. (OK now I sound a bit mad but I hope you see what I'm getting at!).


----------



## drownedgirl

ooh thanks for the nice comments

just typing via my phone so this will be less erudite

aimeegaby i was talking to my 6yo the other day about how it is hard work being pg shame daddy xant have a go.... but o in his class has 2 mummies so one grew him and one grew his sister... and we talked a bit about sperm donors and then about different ways two daddies can have children

he didnt bat an eye about any of it

i dont know what the teacher does with o when they make fathers day cards

one child lost her dad to cancer... c mentioned the class had talked a bit about it and the little girl made a card to remember him .. so likely they also had a solution for o.


----------



## Dominique123456

our local school make 'grandad and uncle' cards


----------



## leoaimee

Dominique123456 said:


> slightly off topic I guess - but I was thinking of doing some role playing and games around bullying and why people are scared of 'difference' and how to respond when people say mean things designed to cause a reaction and hurt you. I'll always remember a boy in my school who had been in a terrible accident and half his face had been v badly burnt - he might have been shy about it but he took it in his stride and was the most popular boy in school. I was bullied because my ear stick out a little bit. I think that bullying victims would become victims no matter what the 'thing' they were going to be bullied about was. If I had just said (when they poked fun of my ears) -"yeah and what of it?" they would have stopped. But becuase I didn't have the confidence or skills to reply like that - and took everything kids said to me to heart.


i was 'bullied' at school ... or at least was very unpopular and didnt really make friends very easily ... got teased for being too posh! but it was the time that my parents split up ... i was 8 .... when i changed to senior school i wasnt bullied any more but i think i turned into a bit of a bully ... nothing major just cld be a bit unkind i guess to some of the other girls at school... think it was all the upset getting repositioned, i was trying to bolster my vulnerable sense of self ....

so i agree with what youre saying dom ...



drownedgirl said:


> aimeegaby i was talking to my 6yo the other day about how it is hard work being pg shame daddy xant have a go.... but o in his class has 2 mummies so one grew him and one grew his sister... and we talked a bit about sperm donors and then about different ways two daddies can have children
> 
> he didnt bat an eye about any of it
> 
> i dont know what the teacher does with o when they make fathers day cards
> 
> one child lost her dad to cancer... c mentioned the class had talked a bit about it and the little girl made a card to remember him .. so likely they also had a solution for o.


that is very thoughtful of the school



Dominique123456 said:


> our local school make 'grandad and uncle' cards


hopefully our LOs will be able to do that ... or maybe we can have two lots of mummy cards


----------



## LiziBee

Dizzy - HUGE congratulations on the arrival of your precious girl! Relax and enjoy. I know I always say the earlier you tell the easier it is but I really do think you can wait until after christmas! 
Lizi.x


----------



## Damelottie

aimeegaby said:


> lady lottie - (sorry this question has come from reading a few things on diff boards that you posted) do you see yourself ever having another partner and therefor Alfie having a 'dad' ....?


Oh aimeegaby - I have so many mixed emotions and views about all these things I just don't know. Obviously I'd love to meet somebody who loved us both as his, but having had some dreadful relationships in the past I don't know if I'd ever trust anybody enough to get that close. Being hurt myself is bad enough but what if somebody let Alfie down?

LL xx


----------



## DizziSquirrel

LiziBee said:


> Dizzy - HUGE congratulations on the arrival of your precious girl! Relax and enjoy. I know I always say the earlier you tell the easier it is but I really do think you can wait until after christmas!
> Lizi.x


 Yep I think After Christmas will do just fine - thanks hun


----------



## leoaimee

LadyLottie said:


> aimeegaby said:
> 
> 
> 
> lady lottie - (sorry this question has come from reading a few things on diff boards that you posted) do you see yourself ever having another partner and therefor Alfie having a 'dad' ....?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh aimeegaby - I have so many mixed emotions and views about all these things I just don't know. Obviously I'd love to meet somebody who loved us both as his, but having had some dreadful relationships in the past I don't know if I'd ever trust anybody enough to get that close. Being hurt myself is bad enough but what if somebody let Alfie down?
> 
> LL xx
Click to expand...

oh hon! that is scary ....   and a horrid thought ....


----------



## olivia m

To anyone interested in the topic of 'telling' I recommend the discussion some of us have been having on the thread "Anyone disclosed deivf status of child openly to all'.  Have a look before it disappears.
Olivia


----------



## lucymorgan

We are going to go to the DCN talk and tell workshop in the next few months as we haven't yet spoken to our DS whose 6 about his 5 month old brother and how we conceived him.  Although he knows it wasnt easy.  We just need to have some space to think and discuss our approach before we do and life just seems to take over.  One of the things that I find quite remarkable is that we were very open with close friends before and there have been a few who have come out with comments such as "he doesnt look very much like you" - they seem to have forgotten and having told them initially I feel that I dont need to have that conversation with them again.  More of a priority is our sons and how we discuss it with them and then our close family - who know but may feel uncomfortable if its raised.

LucyMxx


----------



## drownedgirl

LM: I hope it's useful. I wonder if you might engineering an opening of some kind... a tv programme, book or film that might stimulate a first discussion about family building and different ways people go about it, or babymaking and how some people need some help?


----------



## Dominique123456

Drowned girl - just saw your tickers - Congratulations!! And good luck for your first scan!


----------



## olivia m

Also many congrats from me DG.
Olivia


----------



## drownedgirl

Thank you!! Was just telling the babies (ex-babies!) this morning that there's a new baby in my tummy...


----------



## Damelottie

How dozy of me - just noticed it too  . HUGE congrats


----------



## drownedgirl

LadyLottie said:


> How dozy of me - just noticed it too . HUGE congrats


Fingers crossed!!


----------



## Damelottie

Yes


----------



## leoaimee

congrats DG!  

LM - hope the DCN workshop works for you ... let us know hwo it goes.


----------



## Essex Girl

lucymorgan said:


> One of the things that I find quite remarkable is that we were very open with close friends before and there have been a few who have come out with comments such as "he doesnt look very much like you" - they seem to have forgotten and having told them initially I feel that I dont need to have that conversation with them again.


Lucy - my donor sister even said 'she's got your hair', then realised what she had said. People do forget. Personally, I think that is the right way. The truth is out, but it's not a big deal.

EG x


----------



## Spaykay

I only just noticed DG's news too   HUGE CONGRATS!

Kau xxx


----------



## drownedgirl

Early days, but so far so good!


----------



## belladonna

Hi ladies,

i am feeling a bit down today. A friend of mine is currently pregnant naturally and i know this sounds negative but i wish so much that my buba was naturally 'mine'. I don't know what to do about telling him, i thought before he is 6 or 7 but close friends said i shouldn't tell him at all because just knowing he was from donor sperm is bad enough for him, so telling him he was from a donor egg as well would traumatise him. 

I just don't want my little man to reject me, any thoughts  

Dx


----------



## Spaykay

D - I would ask your close friends why they feel that telling a child they came to your family with help from donor sperm 'bad'. telling a child they were a 'mistake' or weren't really wanted etc etc is bad....but telling a child they came to you from a special place certainly isn't bad, it's the truth! I wouldn't personally change EG for a baby made from my own eggs now and would go for the frozen embies even if by some miracle I could use my own eggs- I feel strongly about telling EG but don't know how yet. I just talk openly about it  to her at the moment. If you sometimes have feelings that you worry about them maybe talking to a councilor could help. Noone says having a baby through donor eggs/sperm is easy hun so having support can only help your bond  

Kay xxx


----------



## Bloofuss

Hi Belladonna

First sorry to hear you are feeling so down but be assured you are not alone I get myself in a right state sometimes paniking about what and when to tell my wee boy how he was conceived (he was donor egg but DP's sperm).  My personal belief is that I will tell him from as young an age as possible so that he grows up knowing it and will be more accepting of it and I am hoping it really wont bother him at all and I will still be and always will be "mummy" - I am of course petrified of him rejecting me but more scared of him finding out another way and then finding I hid info. from him or lied to him.

I think it is sad that friends have said you will traumatise him thats terrible - you carried him, gave birth to him and will be there for him all thorugh his life no one can ever take that away from you - thats how I feel and I hope that is enough and that my boy will grown up healthy and happy and not worry about biology just that he has 2 very loving parents who wanted him very much.

Bloo x


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Bella - Thats terrible what your friends have said   IMO i think teling from as young as you can is best so they grow up with it as a 'norm' to them and your family. 

No one would of wanted by choice to have a donor baby but needs must and your child is yours through and through


----------



## drownedgirl

♥ Mighty Mini ♥ said:


> No one would of wanted by choice to have a donor baby


I wouldn't put it quite like that.

I think I am actually happier now as a mother, because of the long path it took to have the twins.


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

IMO you don't set out in life thinking i'll have a donor baby, thats what i meant! When you imbark on TTC you try for your own bio child first. 
Then when it doesn't happen and you try other options and donor child is an option you take it.


----------



## belladonna

Thanks ladies for your replies,

I love my little man so much, i just don't want him to reject me. i will start talking about it with him as early as possible.

thanks again,

d x


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

Have you joined the Donor conception network? They can help you with teling him or any other support you may need. There are books too which he can read which wil explain it more to him.


----------



## belladonna

i have bought the books from the dcn, but at the moment they have not published a double donor for single mummys.

d x


----------



## olivia m

Hi Belladonna
Do join us - of the 300 or so single women who are members, about 30 have children by double donation so you might find it very helpful to share stories with them.  We are currently developing a book for children conceived into single mother by choice families by double or embryo donation.  It will be available in web form via our web site (hopefully later this year) and will be adaptable to different situations.
Olivia


----------



## smilingandwishing

Hi there,

I'm single ( not through lack of trying   ) 

It has taken me two years of hard thinking to be abe to start treatment.  I had DIUI on 21st APril and am now waiting for the results.

I am absolutley blessed that my immediate family are so supportive - my mother come around every evening that I needed to inject and just sat next to me as I did it. I caught her with a tear in her eye once and when I asked what was wrong she said 'when this works for you and you have a child you will know that no mother ever wants to see her child hurting.' I think it's amazing that she is 67 and lot of parents her generation would have real trouble with it, but despite being quite 'straight' she has been hillarious - she came and picked me up after mu insemination and her opening comment was ' you're coming home with me and laying down so those blighters can swim for their life.' My sister is equally as supportive.  

My dilemma is what to tell friends and when I am pregnant and then later  (please excuse the fact that I'm saying when and not if but have decided to just have positive thoughts). My instinct tells me to keep the number of people who know as small as possible to begin with, after all it is my business. As the child grows I intend to tell it and so then wouldn't the child to feel like it's a awful secret that I'm ashamed of. BUT I also think maybe it is up to the child later on to decide who they want to know.... gosh rushing forward.  It's just that you can't take the info back once you tell.

I just want to do the very best thing that I can.


----------



## Spaykay

smiling - positivity is the way forward...well done you! Your mum's comments brought a   to my eye. How lovely of her to support you so much

Kay xxx


----------



## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

oooh smiling, the hormones have got the better of me


----------



## roze

I also wouldn't say that no one would have a donor baby by choice in that way.  I never really had the choice, but I did choose to go forward with donor tx , not as a last resort, but to produce much wanted children. I do feel its a real privilege to carry the genes of another person and I feel more that I have greater obligations towards the children than I might otherwise have done. You never own your children and being donor conceived reiterates that. I think its a good thing to remember.

roze


----------



## Spaykay

Roze - yes, our children are individuals with their own rights, and however they joined our family is a special gift. I do feel it is their right to know about their own life...it is theirs after all, we just gave it to them (just not really being the right word)...and aren't we lucky  

Kay xxx


----------



## Maya7

Hi to everyone 

Hope you dont mind me joining you ... I've been practicing telling J about being donor conceived but haven't come up with _the_ story yet ... I wanted to start thinking about it more seriously ... I know I do have some time yet to get it right ...

Smiling, i love your mum's style 


Maya


----------



## leoaimee

this is a bit of an oldie... but pertitenant to what you all have been saying, certainly brings a tear to my eye.
it was a reading at lulu;s naming.

Kahil Gibran, The Prophet
Your children are not your children.
    They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
    They come through you but not from you,
    And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts, 
    For they have their own thoughts.
      You may house their bodies but not their souls,
    For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, 
  which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
    You may strive to be like them, 
  but seek not to make them like you.
    For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children
  as living arrows are sent forth.
    The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, 
  and He bends you with His might 
  that His arrows may go swift and far.
    Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
    For even as He loves the arrow that flies, 
  so He loves also the bow that is stable.


----------



## pinkbabe

Wow Aimee, that is lovely, you have just taken my breath away   

Karen xx


----------



## olivia m

The Khalil Gibran is wonderful and my own personal guiding philosophy.  It reminds us that no matter what we give our children, they have the right to their own feelings and thoughts as well.  As parents, our role is to support and guide, not to impose.
Olivia


----------



## Damelottie

Wonderful Aimmee xxx


----------



## Bloofuss

That was lovely reading Aimee thank you  - as always a big help/support x


----------



## Maya7

Thats lovely ... bitter sweet for me too as my ex and I were given a double set of 'The prophet' ... will have to dip back into it again to rediscover the wisdom there..

Maya


----------



## drownedgirl

My DP read from that poem at our twins' naming ceremony.

Our donor and her DH are "godparents"

Donor who is a professional singer sang "Hope you dance"


----------



## Spaykay

Aimee -    lovely

Kay xxx


----------



## emmaboo73

wow, am having a major blub and just skyped this to my supportive ma and pa - thanks Aimee


----------



## leoaimee

emmaboo


----------



## olivia m

Hi all
Here's an interesting article from the Family Section of today's Guardian about family secrets.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jul/10/divorce-children-lies

Also, part of a post by a donor conceived adult from the Donor Sibling Registry Yahoo group - they don't object to posts being copied elsewhere.

"It is natural for a parent to want to protect their child from harm of any sort, and they tend to see disclosure as unnecessary harm, and thus think they are "protecting" the child by not telling them the truth (the old "what you don't know won't hurt you" adage). But what they may not realize, or want to acknowledge, is that that dirty little family secret usually comes out somewhere down the line, as we see time and again.

My own case is a classic example of what you are talking about. My mother never intended to tell me that my Dad was not my father. She thought she was "protecting" me because of how close I was to Dad, and was worried that my feelings for him would change for the negative (which is opposite of how I really feel about him, BTW). It was only because I found another relative who knew the secret that she told me at all, because she didn't want it slipping out from a source other than herself. And as for the age factor, yes, I think many of us who found out later in life have felt more anguish, not just for the fact that we are less likely to find any info about our fathers, but because of having been lied to all our lives.

It is so encouraging to read posts from the mothers out there who really get that. Thank you to all of you who have "seen the light" and now advocate for full disclosure!!"

Olivia


----------



## olivia m

And another valuable post on the DSR from Bill Cordray who at nearly seventy must be one of the oldest known donor conceived adults -

"[email protected], another poster wrote:
>Maybe
> I shouldn't have read so much because I didn't think the child would
> mind. I don't plan on telling him he's conceived from a donor anyway
> especially since it is anonymous what good would that do for him.

Dear .........

Since 1993, I've been keeping an ongoing survey of donor conceived adults. My respondents are primarily from heterosexual families, since most of my adult contacts were conceived prior to the current sperm bank policies allowing single women and lesbian couples. I investigated the effects of late-disclosure on adults. Most of the younger generation, aged 29 and younger, were told at a much earlier age, averaging 14 years old. Of these, 33% had already suspected that their father was not genetically related to them. These suspicions began, on average, seven years before actual disclosure. Among the older generation, aged 30 through 59, disclosure occurred, on average around age 29. Prior to disclosure, 49% of these had suspected their fathers were not genetically related to them. Their suspicions began, on average, 20 years before actual disclosure.

I am not claiming that these statistics represent all donor concieved adults. However, there is definitely a possibility that non-disclosure, in whichever family type children are born, will expose children to wondering whether the father left or died before birth, whether she/he was adopted, or whether their mother had had an affair. You said "what good would that do for him." You might also ask yourself if it is a good thing to run the risk that your son might harbor such fantasies or if it is better to tell him the truth."

Olivia


----------



## drownedgirl

On a slightly different matter, some people may remember me saying how recently I met my aunt from Australia who revealed I was born with 6 fingers on each hand (Polydactyly) and had an operation as a baby.

My mother had never told me this (she died when I was 22) though she had actually told me my AUNT had polydactyly and it may run in the family. Certainly, I was concerned enough about it to have it in the maternity notes for DS1 and the first thing I did when he was born was to count his digits.

Since I found out the truth from my Aunt, there isn't a day I haven't thought about this secret, and why my mother never told me. It has made me wonder about all sorts of other things, I don't know now whether to believe anything else my mother told me about my childhood.

It's a seriously weird feeling.

I am toying with the idea of applying to see my medical records so I can see for myself what it says about my birth and the operation and so on.


----------



## Guest

I have been reading this thread and it is quite long so i dont know if anyone has mentioned this scenario: telling a child they are from donor sperm/egg but then not being able to give the child any further information since the donor was from abroad where donations are anonymous.  Does it make sense to tell a child in that situation?


----------



## olivia m

Hi Shad
There is every point in 'telling' a child conceived abroad with a non-identifiable donor.  If a child is not told then at some point parents are going to find themselves lying by omission and that is rarely a comfortable position for a mother or father to be in with a child when the one thing that should be at the core of family relationships is trust.  As you will read in the Guardian article above and also the research from Bill Cordray, children are often aware at a sub-conscious level of 'difference' to do with them in the family.  If this is not spoken about then children can blame themselves and suffer an impaired sense of self.  Both Bill and the other DC adult quoted above know nothing about their donors, but they are pleased to know about how they were conceived.  My own son, now 27, has no information about his donor (and no interest in him either) but says that 'telling' has made him feel respected as a human being.  Bill Cordray's famous quote is that it's not the conception that's a problem it's the deception.

Be proud of where your child is conceived.  Bring them up with knowledge of the language and culture of that country...support the football team, go on holiday there.  When a teenager or adult, your child can always insist that they are British anyway and cut the ties, but you will have given them a strong sense of the place where their wonderful donor came from that can be built into their sense of who they are, if they choose to do this.
Olivia


----------



## drownedgirl

I might be wrong but I presume most of the donor conceived adults and young people who we hear expressing an opinion were conceived when anonymity was the norm... the only info you have to go on really, Shad, is your own attempts to put yourself into the heade of your future child... and the research and evidence from those who have been told of their donor conception...


----------



## Guest

olivia m said:


> Hi Shad
> There is every point in 'telling' a child conceived abroad with a non-identifiable donor. If a child is not told then at some point parents are going to find themselves lying by omission and that is rarely a comfortable position for a mother or father to be in with a child when the one thing that should be at the core of family relationships is trust. As you will read in the Guardian article above and also the research from Bill Cordray, children are often aware at a sub-conscious level of 'difference' to do with them in the family. If this is not spoken about then children can blame themselves and suffer an impaired sense of self. Both Bill and the other DC adult quoted above know nothing about their donors, but they are pleased to know about how they were conceived. My own son, now 27, has no information about his donor (and no interest in him either) but says that 'telling' has made him feel respected as a human being. Bill Cordray's famous quote is that it's not the conception that's a problem it's the deception.
> 
> Be proud of where your child is conceived. Bring them up with knowledge of the language and culture of that country...support the football team, go on holiday there. When a teenager or adult, your child can always insist that they are British anyway and cut the ties, but you will have given them a strong sense of the place where their wonderful donor came from that can be built into their sense of who they are, if they choose to do this.
> Olivia


I would be proud of where the donor originates from and would do my best to get as much info as possible about the donor - eg Global Egg Donor provides a good service and loads of info. However, if i was to be treated in Europe such info is scant. To say well the donor had brown eyes, black hair and was 5ft3 is not much help to an inquisitive mind. Does the research talk about those children who would like to trace the donor but cannot due anonymity? How do they go through life not knowing?


----------



## olivia m

Hi Shad
You are right, it isn't much information, but at least you are sharing with your child everything you know.  There are no secrets between you.  We have found over the years that the key to children doing well is is parental confidence in the decisions taken and the way in which information is shared, rather than what is said or the amount of information available.  A coherent story told by the parent(s) with pride and confidence is likely to lead to a child who feels comfortable with who they are, no matter how much information is or isn't available.
As you are being so very thoughtful about this issue, it may lead to you wanting to find a donor via Global Egg Donors, who do indeed give a lot of information and sometimes facilitate contact between donor and recipient and can organise for the donor to be available to the child from 18.
Olivia


----------



## drownedgirl

My dad was adopted, hasn't traced his birth mother and anyway I have had had no contact with him since before my mother died when I was in my early twenties. So I know very little of my genetics on that side, or even about my father himself. But I feel at peace with it, it has never occurred to me I could change this fact in any way. Maybe there is a peace that comes from knowing it's something you can't know?


----------



## drownedgirl

Some links:

http://humupd.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/7/1/38.pdf

http://childofastranger.blogspot.com/

http://infertility.about.com/b/2010/06/08/dealing-with-the-identity-challenges-of-donor-conceived-children-and-adults.htm

http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=ie7&q=anonymous+donor+research+feelings+of+child&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7SMSN_en___GB359&redir_esc=&ei=AVtDTJO1DIPw0gSJtfykDw

Not read all this throigh yet, just keeping a note for when I have a bit of time
/links


----------



## Spaykay

Is there a thread on 'telling others about your donor egg/sperm/embryo conceived child? Dh and I are on the verge of beginning to let people know after reading back a while ago when Olivia said it is a huge responsibility for the child. i have also thought that if the child knows that noone else knows, they may wonder why and think there is something wrong or strange about their conception...if she were adopted then everyone would know. Where can I go to help me help others understand and make it so that LO's fact of life is just that and not some story, secret or gossip? She is 1 now, and we mention the special lady when it comes up without hiding or being unnatural...how do we do this with others? My DH made a good point that people donate blood and organs...donating your egg is just another way to give life. We are so proud of our LO but fed up of being quiet when people say she doesn't look like me or even that she does   

kay xxx


----------



## drownedgirl

Spaykay said:


> Is there a thread on 'telling others about your donor egg/sperm/embryo conceived child?


Start one? We have told quite a few people


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## pippilongstockings

Kay - I'll join in if you start a thread!  We've told quite a lot of people (family and friends) but haven't told anyone new for quite a while.  We've recently moved into a small village where our children will hopefully go to school and we're starting to think about who to tell here - teachers, friends parents etc. How far do you go?  I'm fairly sure that our eldest son will talk about it freely when he's a bit older and we don't want him to be met with confusion or negative responses, but at the same time it is a private matter so we don't want the whole world knowing our business!  I'd definitely appreciate a separate thread to discuss the issues.

P x


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## olivia m

Hi All
Increasingly at DCN meetings and in workshops people are agonising much more about sharing information with others than with the issue of 'telling' a child...which is seen as easy by comparison!  There is really no wrong or right way here, as each family needs to work out what is right for them and the circles in which they live and move.  There is some general guidance on this topic in the Telling and Talking booklets I wrote a few years ago (available to download for £2.50 or buy for £8.50 from www.dcnetwork.org) but a specific booklet is probably needed.  A general principle might be that the child's best interest needs to be at the heart of any decisions we make as parents, but parent's feelings can sometimes get in the way of identifying what those best interests might be.

It would be great to have a thread on FF about sharing info with family, friends and others.  As with so much about DC families it is a subject that needs to be re-visited regularly as children grow, change and start moving out into the social world and owning the information for themselves.
I look forward to seeing what everyone has to say and sometimes contributing myself.
Olivia


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## Spaykay

I will open one. It will be to support those that have decided to share with others, not for discussion on whether it's right or wrong    The info can be there and then people can decide. Does that sound ok.? Ta

Kay xxx


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## Spaykay

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=242720.new#new

Here we go...any links at the beginning for people to find leaflets etc would be appreciated 

Kay xxx


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## Cherann

Hi,
Something that really helped me to make up my mind about telling (should I be lucky enough to need to!) was the write up  that can be found on the Donor Conception network home page which minutes young people talking who have been donor conceived. 

When reading this two things became very clear to me. The first was how important it was to them to have been told the truth from a young age, and secondly that those who were told from a young age, felt that it did not change the way they felt for their 'Mum and Dad'. At the worst, those that had been told early, felt curious about their genetic identity, but felt that the 'Donor could never replace their 'parents'. They came across as being really well adjusted.

On the other hand those that found out late in life either by accident or their parents telling them when they felt they might be 'ready' had more feelings of anger  and confusion about their situation and spoke of difficulties in coming to terms with things. 

It really was worth reading. I felt that as I can't ask my (possible) future child how she/he might feel, this was the next best thing! 

Whatever you decide, I am sure it will be what's best for you and your child.


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## Dominique123456

Cherann - I read that too and felt it was really powerful and fascinating


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## Spaykay

I keep forgetting to talk to EG about it    We do talk about it openly if it comes up, but we rarely mention the 'special lady'. Muist get my finger out and start up soon!!!   

Dom, will J also know you donated eggs?

Kirsty x


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

I told baby at a week old    need to talk again to him about a nice man in america!!


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## Spaykay

Yeh, I told EG too but I think she's forgotten !!!!!


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

I have a feeling my litle one has too!!


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## ml66uk

Huh?  I've just had two comments deleted from the "Anyone NOT telling their child" thread.  I thought they were useful for parents planning to tell or not to tell, and introduced some new information, including a group for DI dads, some of whom also don't tell.

I spend a lot of my online time talking with donor-conceived people and DC parents who have told, and frankly am amazed that so many people are thinking about not telling, and in some cases even seeking out permanently anonymous donors.  Anonymity was ended for a reason, and even people who are planning not to tell should realise that they may change their minds, or their children may find out anyway, in a variety of different ways.  I've read lots of stories like that, though obviously we hear a lot less from the parents who haven't told and the children who don't know.

Personally, I would hate to have to keep a secret like that.  Even if I didn't think the children had a right to know, I'd just feel like I was making a rod for my own back.  Even if I was planning not to tell, I would still never consider an anonymous donor.


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## Spaykay

I am planning to tell but live in Spain and over here the donors are anaoymous, no choice there. I could have gone to UK etc I suppose but it was complicated enough going through this at home, let alone having to travel...although I know many people do. the service over here was great and I hope that I can answer any questions EG may have, I am sorry that info will be limited though for her. I can't answer whether anonymity is/will be a problem for her or not, but she will know all that I can tell.


Kay xxx


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## emmaboo73

ml66uk - I think the thread you mentioned is for people who don't wish to tell and its a place for them to get support in their decision rather than have a debate.  The first post has said as much and I think we should respect that.  Perhaps start another thread for those that might be undecided if you have valuable information to share?

I think it's important that there are threads for both choices.  

Personally I am in the telling camp and because I am now with a Spanish clinic it will be anonymous - regardless of this there will be no secrets and I will be letting my DC child know all that I do.


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## ml66uk

I thought I'd taken that into account in both my posts, and some of the advice was aimed at people who aren't going to tell. I wish everyone and their children the very best whatever they decide to do. Having threads just for people who agree with you seems the wrong way of going about things though. People are always going to disagree about lots of things, but that doesn't mean you should only communicate with people who share your point of view. I'd be more interested in finding out why people disagree. The point of view of the children is almost totally unrepresented on boards like this btw.

I can definitely understand going to a clinic in Spain because it's cheaper or because it's easier to find a donor, but I can't understand someone actively seeking out an anonymous donor. Even if you're planning not to tell, what is there to lose by having an id-release donor anyway? The children may never find out, and may not be remotely interested if they do find out, but what's the downside? There are lots of donor-conceived people and adoptees who don't think their genetic parentage is a big deal, but for some of them, it's massive, and I think they're entitled to have some answers. It's not even controversial any more for adoptive parents.

If we'd been having this discussion twenty or even ten years ago, almost no-one would have been telling. Until 2004, all HFEA donors were anonymous, even if the parents and donors would have been happy with id-release. Probably 90%+ of clinic staff and counsellors would have recommended keeping donor conception secret, but I honestly thought that attitudes had completely changed since then. I've communicated with lots of donor-conceived people, adoptees and open parents, and wasn't aware that there are obviously lots of other people out there that want to keep it secret. It's not something to be ashamed of though, so why treat it that way?

I don't want this to sound like it's more important than it is. Not telling doesn't make someone a bad parent, any more than telling automatically makes someone a good parent. Children aren't going to understand for the first few years anyway, and all the other stuff will be waaay more important. It's worth looking ahead though. We're all going to be different ten or twenty years from now, especially our children. Our views on things will be different, society's attitudes will be different, and we don't have much idea what our children are going to think about anything. The vast majority of donor-conceived people seem to be against both anonymity and secrecy though, even the ones that aren't interested in knowing anything about their own donors.


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## Spaykay

I think it's perfectly normal to have a thread where people agree...fertility is hard enough without having to argue about it. Taking the decision to use donor eggs was extremely tough, I don't now need people telling me what I should/shouldn't tell my child, however, I do seek advice. It's good to have somewhere to air thoughts and sometimes chat to people who agree with you.

From Kay...one who IS telling their child


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## drownedgirl

I read somewhere that the strong feelings all come from a desire to protect the child

Those who feel strongly you should tell fear the risk that comes from secrecy within the family/being found out

Those who feel strongly you should not fear the risk from stigma (or sometimes from being unable to provide information about the donor)


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## olivia m

You are right to a great extent DG but I think there's a lot of protection of adult sensitivities (and a desire to stick heads in the sand with regard to future implications for the family) that takes place under the guise of protecting the child as well.  ml66uk is right, if there is nothing to be ashamed about, why not be open and given choices to the child instead lying by omission (at best) and not putting honesty at the heart of family life.
Olivia


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## drownedgirl

I have sometimes read stuff in various places on the net where I think there is a desire to forget that a donor has been used at all and while I can understand that desire (and the temptation not to share the information when it is so easy to hide it) I do wonder how things will turn out for those families. 

I especially worry when I see women (I am on a US forum where this seems common) have told a lot of friends and family, but now desire to keep it from the child, and it's so hard to believe they are going to be able to keep the secret!

Even where only the two parents are aware, who can tell whether one day it won't become an issue... after divorce etc... and then there is the whole subject of DNA testing and genetic tests etc


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## Violet66

well said babydreams - I totally agree. 

I have two failed DE attempts behind me and, should I ever get lucky, do not intend to tell the child they were donor conceived. Nothing to do with being embarrassed or ashamed but based on what I consider the best possible course of action for the child.


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## ml66uk

I hope you get lucky whatever you decide to do, but I don't see how you can consider it better for the child.  Hardly any donor-conceived people would agree with you, and they're the ones whose views really matter in all this.  Even if I didn't think there was a good chance that they'll find out one day anyway, I think the children deserve to be told.

Ten years ago, I would have agreed that it was better not to tell, or that it didn't matter.  It's talking to donor-conceived people that's made me change my mind.  They're the ones who are most likely to understand how your children will think.


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## Violet66

Actually ml66uk I disagree - their views don't matter the most to me.  They're not my children.  

Also for every donor conceived child that knows about their start in life there must be one that doesn't - it's just that we won't get to hear their view. What about the ones that find out and feel lost, rootless and confused in later life? I'm guessing we don't get to hear their stories either. 

there's no 'one size fits all' rule in this. Each must make a decision they feel most comfortable with. Great that you've made yours - good for you. 
I've made mine too.


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## ml66uk

babydreams09 said:


> ml66uk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hardly any donor-conceived people would agree with you, and they're the ones whose views really matter in all this.
> 
> 
> 
> I've already said I won't get into a debate about this but I will say this in response to the above:
> 
> My *CHILD* is all that matters in this.
> 
> My *SITUATION* and *ENVIRONMENT *will dictate what is best for my child re telling/not telling.
> 
> *NOTHING* or *NOBODY* will change this.
> 
> You don't know me. You don't know anything about me. You don't know anything about my situation. You don't know what's best for me no matter how much research or talking to donor conceived children you have done. Get off your high horse and stop thinking you know best for everyone.
Click to expand...

I don't like being in arguments, and I wish you and your family all the best whatever you think of me or my views. It really doesn't matter what I think, but what your children think *is* important. I'm guessing that you've probably never spoken to anyone who is donor-conceived. Some of them probably have a similar situation and environment to the one your children will have, and are more likely to understand how your children will think about the telling thing than you are. You'll find it surprisingly hard to find anyone donor-conceived that wishes they didn't know, or that thinks it's ok not to tell.

Like I said before, I wish everyone and their children the very best whatever they decide to do.


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## shortie66

ml66uk  I dont think you are quite getting it hunny, YOU have your opinion and BABYDREAMS has her opinion. She considers it is best for HER child because that is what SHE has decided, so therefore your opinions mean nothing.


By the way im doing a donor cycle and YES i would tell my child, but thats MY own opinion and MY choice.


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## olivia m

Violet
The only DC adults who feel lost, rootless and confused are those who are told or worse still, find out in difficult circumstances, later in life, because their parents did not tell them in early childhood.  I know of only one teenager who was told early who went through a period of feeling like this...and I know hundreds of DC children, teenagers and adults.
People keep on going on about adult choice.  The problem is that adult choice not to tell means taking away choices from children/DC people.  I, and many, many others think that they have a right to choice too.  A well-known donor conceived adult talks about the problem being the deception, not the conception itself.
I am very happy to set out the reason why telling is a good thing for children and families.  I wonder if a non-teller would like to set out the advantages for children and families from their perspective.  Just an explanation so it is possible to understand better where you are coming from.  It would be good to have a proper debate about this rather than taking defensive positions.
Olivia


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## smilingandwishing

Don't normally jump in on these things but I have been reading for ages and just wanted to add my views.

I do plan to tell my child - although right now I have only told my mother, sister and one close friend. My plan is to tell others at the same time as I tell my child, but that is not my point. My point is that I don't believe anyone that is in this process: using donor sperm for whatever reason and seeking support on a site like this hasn't thought through in a lot detail the implications of what they are doing. I think each of us has the child and its welfare at the centre of our thoughts and only each individual can understand the environment they exist in and the potential impacts of telling or not telling.

Each is us will come to a decision that we truly believe is right for our familes and one of the reasons FF is so wonderful is that we are able to find people that are either going through similar stuff to ourselves or making similar decisions and then seek support, compare hurdles and challenges, speak of the positives and advantages.

Babydreams I absolutely agree with you that whether you tell or not is your decision and that you are entitled to seek people that have made a similar choice for support and to share. 

ML66UK - I imagine that your input is done with the best intentions - but Babydreams is right you don't know her, you don't  know what research she has done, you don't know who she has spoken to  or what she has based her decision on - and all of that is her business.  Your views are absolutely valid and I admire the strength of your feeling but please try to see that nothing is black and white - everything you have read, or the conversations with people effected that you know, have spoken to,  may well point to telling being better - but that is still only one side of the story.

Wishing everyone all the very best of luck - this journey is a tough one - let's help each other through it.

Love to all, Smiling xx


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## shortie66

Perhaps people feel like they have to take defensive positions because they are told that by not telling their child that they are wrong and are made to feel like some kind of monster by daring to not tell the story of theirchilds conception. Like i said before that is you opinion, no-one is trying to tell anyone they are wrong FOR telling their child are they       


Yes i am having donor tx


Yes i am telling my child (if lucky enough to have one)


BUT THAT IS MY CHOICE.


EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT AND EVERYONE HAS A DIFFERENT CHOICE TO MAKE.


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## Violet66

Olivia - I don't have a compulsion to convert people to my way of thinking. 
I have arrived at a decision that I am comfortable with. One that makes the most sense to me and that I see the least conflict arising from.


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## shortie66

Violet you DO NOT have to justify yourself sweetheart, and CERTAINLY not here.


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## DizziSquirrel

Hi everyone
Once again this thread has been reported 
and once again people are being *unsupported* in _their_ decisions regarding donor conceived children
I am acutely aware how emotive and thought provoking for and against arguments for this subject are.

What I wish for is that these threads stop being turned into for and against debates and lectures "to tell"

Members of fertility Friends going down the painful route of needing & then choosing to use donated sperm or eggs
is likely to be reading research, experiences & opinions to help them arrive at a decision _they_ are comfortable with,
they may well look on the DCN website and obtain the informative literature, to help them decide if "telling" is for them
they may after reading everything decide not to tell, and thats their RIGHT & where I believe Fertility Friends comes in

Fertility Friends is here to find _like minded supportive_ people going through the same emotions as they are 
whether telling or not telling 
as at the end of the day it is a personal decision, one that we make for our child/ren and 
one that ultimately I & everyone here has to live with whatever the outcome.

Please be respectful and non judgemental with your replies from now on.

*I am going to suggest a 2 stickied posts on this board
with ten reasons for telling & ten reasons against telling, these would be locked but available to all for information, if you would like to compose your list and PM me with it I will post it for you.*
Please do not post a list here as I will delete it.

~Dizzi~


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## juju81

This thread amazes me and also angers me.  It's a support site yet there are some regular people on here who feel the need to kind of bully people if they don't agree with them. 

Nobody, not anyone of us should be made to feel guilty over the decision we have taken whether to tell or not tell. I am telling my child, not because of any research or any case studies etc but because that's what we have chosen. I do not in any way think that by not telling is wrong and people shouldn't feel persecuted because they have decided not to tell and their decision differs from you. It's their decision like you have come to yours. Why can't some of you just accept it and support them. It doesn't make you right.

When it comes to parenthood, everyone has different opinions whether it be to breast feed, bottle feed, wean early, use cow and gate or sma (everyone has their own opinion on things and instead of making that person feel bad just support them instead of making people feel like they have to justify themselves

Babydreams   hun, I fully support you in your decision xxxx


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## ♥ Mighty Mini ♥

well said Ju   

Parenting is a very personal thing and not one person will agree with 'your' ways cos 'their' way is always better!!!   

I hope this thread wil give me the support in telling my little one when the time comes. I have already told him but of course hes not going to remember it!!!


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## juju81

Mini, he rang me the other day, told me about your conversation! Of course he remembers hun


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## DizziSquirrel

Hi babydreams


> it might help people to understand that there are some genuine reasons that people have for not telling.


Thats all I'm hoping for hun 
however I'm aware it may not be so easy because its so personal and thats fine too 

I feel this thread should be renamed, to make it clearer for people searching
suggestions on a postcard ( PM please ) if you agree

~Dizzi~


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## wolla

babydreams09 said:


> DizziSquirrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi everyone
> Once again this thread has been reported
> and once again people are being *unsupported* in _their_ decisions regarding donor conceived children
> I am acutely aware how emotive and thought provoking for and against arguments for this subject are.
> 
> What I wish for is that these threads stop being turned into for and against debates and lectures "to tell"
> 
> Members of fertility Friends going down the painful route of needing & then choosing to use donated sperm or eggs
> is likely to be reading research, experiences & opinions to help them arrive at a decision _they_ are comfortable with,
> they may well look on the DCN website and obtain the informative literature, to help them decide if "telling" is for them
> they may after reading everything decide not to tell, and thats their RIGHT & where I believe Fertility Friends comes in
> 
> Fertility Friends is here to find _like minded supportive_ people going through the same emotions as they are
> whether telling or not telling
> as at the end of the day it is a personal decision, one that we make for our child/ren and
> one that ultimately I & everyone here has to live with whatever the outcome.
> 
> Please be respectful and non judgemental with your replies from now on.
> 
> *I am going to suggest a 2 stickied posts on this board
> with ten reasons for telling & ten reasons against telling, these would be locked but available to all for information, if you would like to compose your list and PM me with it I will post it for you.*
> Please do not post a list here as I will delete it.
> 
> ~Dizzi~
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Dizzy,
> 
> Sorry about that. I think that is fair.
> 
> I don't know about others in the not telling camp but I don't mind if there is no sticky with 10 reasons not to tell. I don't really want to convince anyone not to tell as circumstances are so different for each individual. However, I suppose it might help people to understand that there are some genuine reasons that people have for not telling.
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...

Dizzy

Perhaps a better option would be to make the 'not telling' discussion and support thread sticky - just as this thread is. This will surely make it easier for anyone searching for information to see that there are plenty of people in both camps, and whatever their personal decision there is support here for them and somewhere non-judgemental to discuss their decision, their worries and their journey. Such decisions are so very personal and different for every family i don't think there could be a definitive 'top ten' list.

Wolla


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## DizziSquirrel

Thanks Wolla

I am taking your thoughts on board  

~Dizzi~


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## Bloofuss

Hi

Dizzy

Just wanted to pop on and say I get a lot from this thread and totally agree that it should be for help/suppot and advice from those that are in the same boat - I guess thoughts feeling and emotions run high and everyone has there own  opinion but I agree that each person/child and circumstance is difference and noone should be judged.

I am just so grateful to have such a  site where I dont feel so alone or isolated in how my boy was concieved (DE) and I would really like it to continue.

Bloo x


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## Spaykay

I hope it can be made clear that babydreams thread is set up purely for support, perhaps in brackets you could put (support thread). Although people may agree or disagree , including myself, about not telling, people need somewhere to talk, we must PLEASE respect that whether we agree or disagree. This thread seems to be help pèople to decide whether to tell, opinions welcome, but babydreams thread is NOT for that. Lets give her and those not telling that space, We are NOT going to change their minds so have to respect that.

Kay xxx


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## olivia m

I would be very happy with the situation that Kay suggests, but am keen to reiterate that THIS thread should stay open for opinions.  I would also very much like to see the lists for and against Telling, as suggested by Dizzi Squirrel, posted either here/on both threads/one on each or on new threads.  I supplied a pro-telling one to Dizzi last Wednesday 6th October and she seemed happy with it, but am sorry that it has not yet seen light of day.
Olivia


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## shortie66

I also have no problems with the thread being kept open for opinions, as long as those opinions are not making people feel they are doing something hideous and deceitful.


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## DizziSquirrel

to everyone for your feedback 

Ive discussed it in Admin and after much deliberation we have made a decision regarding these threads on this board.

There will be just two chat/support threads, _without lists_, one for those telling and one for those not.

Anyone who is undecided can dip into both to get both sides, 
any posts belittling or disputing the choices others have made will be removed.

Using a donor is such a a tough thing to go through whether you know you are telling or not 
lets not make it harder.

~Dizzi~
NEW HOME this way ---> http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=248489.0


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