# 2/3 day transfer versus blastocyst?



## lbuck (Jan 27, 2011)

Hello

I have been reading this forum since the start of my first IVF treatment, and I have found the forum to be soooo very useful!!

I had around 25 folicals, EC went well and got 13 eggs, 12 were mature and all 12 fertilised.... wow!

We still have all 12 on day 2..... 6 at grade 1. 5 at grade 2 and 1 at grade 3... ranging from 4 cells to 7 cells.....

So a big decision to make, do we get two put back in possibly tomorrow or hope for one nice blast to put back on day 5.... eck!

IVF is such an amazing thing, but my god its hard!! Any help much appreciated!


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## shazicowfan (Jan 10, 2007)

Hello,
Congratulations for doing so well!
Personally if I was you I would get 2 put back in tomorrow. My son is from a 4 cell day 2 embryo. My clinic never gave me the option to go to blasts, they just told me when I was to come in for E.T. ( it was a free cycle). 
I think your embryos are doing really well and you could get 2 put back in to the perfect place where embryos truly belong tomorrow and freeze the rest which gives you something to fall back on or a chance of a sibling later on. 
There is a risk if you leave it a few more days you could lose them and if that happened you would kick yourself. I know it's not likely that you would lose all of them but I wouldn't want to chance it.
Good luck for a B.F.P. whatever you decide.
Shazi x


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## lbuck (Jan 27, 2011)

Thank you for your reply!

Spoken to the embryologist today and all are still doing well, although two have started compacting already, but look fine? She suggested we wait until blast transfer and go on Monday.... I know im going to be in a panic now for three days hoping that we get at least one blast to transfer!! I really hope we have made the right decision...


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## hope42011! (Jul 26, 2010)

hi lbuck, i have just been through the exact same dilema, and i made the same decision as you. We find out tomorrow if we have any blasts   we had nine embies. The hardest thing for me was potentially sacrificing the weaker embies to get the one strong bub for transfer as there is nothing to say the weaker ones wouldnt make it on a 3 day transfer. Its hard so very hard but hopefully, fingers crossed, our dreams will come true   I'm petrified to get the phonecall tomorrow morning but I'm trying to keep   Good luck for Monday


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## lbuck (Jan 27, 2011)

oh wow! Really really hope your little embabys have made it to blast, keeping everything crossed for you xxxxxxx Sending you all the best of luck for tomorrow


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## jaded (Jan 4, 2011)

Good luck to you both,
i am getting my EC next weds (2/2/11)
Am already dreading making that decision,


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## lbuck (Jan 27, 2011)

thank you jaded, hope you get plenty of eggies!! ec is fine, nothing to worry about there - good luck with your journey x


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## Waiting for miracle (Dec 18, 2007)

Hi there, I had the same dilemma and on the 5th IVF opted for blastocyst and still on 2ww.
Here is what I found on 3 days vs. 5 days transfer, hope it helps to make a decision.

What are the pros and cons of blastocyst transfer? 

Blastocyst transfer can be highly successful for some groups of women, but it isn't right for everyone and does have some drawbacks:  
-blastocyst transfer can result in a higher likelihood of becoming pregnant when compared with 2-3 day embryo transfer in certain groups of women. 
-however, if you opt for blastocyst transfer, you may not get any embryos that develop to the blastocyst stage. 
-there may also be fewer embryos to freeze. 
-if your embryos do develop to the blastocyst stage and multiple blastocyst transfer is used, you are at greater risk of producing twins. 
-blastocyst transfer may not be suitable for all women and not all UK centres are able to provide it. Different clinics have different policies and working arrangements. Ask your clinic whether they offer this service and how they decide who is suitable for it.


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## jaded (Jan 4, 2011)

Thanks lbuck.
at the moment all i can think off is wish it would hurry up and get here, time is going really slow, and i am feeling really fed up with feeling tender bloated, and in a bit of pain.
hubby keeps saying it will soon be here, everyone else that knows says time has gone really quick since i started buserelin on xmas morning,  but its gone at a snail pace for me.

good luck to you too, xx


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## Mistletoe (Holly) (Jan 1, 2007)

From my experience definitely go for blast with that many embies.

I had 8 eggs in my last cycle, all fertilised.

I had 6 grade 1 on day 3 and 2 lower quality.

By day 5, 2 were early blastocysts and 4 were still compacting.
I had the early blasts put back and let the others remain in the lab for 1 more day.

Out of the 4 only 1 more made it to a nice blast, the other 3 arrested.

I would not have been able to tell at day 3 which was going to make my baby and which would stop.

In my first cycle I had a day 3 transfer and 2 frozen.
I got pregnant with a baby that did not survive and the 2 frozen, although they survived thawing perfectly did not stick.

If I had a day 3 transfer this time, I would have had 2 put back and 4 frozen - potentially resulting in a failed cycle and failed FET before I found this embryo I am carrying now.


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## shazicowfan (Jan 10, 2007)

Good luck with the blasts!!
Fingers crossed for lots of success for everyone.

Shazi x


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## lbuck (Jan 27, 2011)

Thank you so much everyone for your replies  

We went to blast and we have 6! Others are doing fine too, just not there yet, we feel very lucky to have got to this stage.... we are having transfer tomorrow morning.... now the question is one or two!! xxx


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## coweyes (Sep 4, 2008)

Ibuck, blast is a great choice.  Personally on your first ivf go i would have one put back in.  Unsure which clinic you are using but most dont like putting 2 back in esp if your young, and its your first go.  Good luck xx


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## nutmeg (Aug 21, 2009)

Good luck, we went down the blast route ourselves last time too and know we made the right decision, even though it hasn't worked for us yet, we were lucky enough to have enough for freezer and have ET on Weds.


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## shazicowfan (Jan 10, 2007)

lbuck congratulations on doing so well.
I think you have a very strong bunch of embryos out there and surely very good odds of a B.F.P.
Wishing you loads of luck.

Shazi x


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## lbuck (Jan 27, 2011)

Thank you everyone, really hoping for a bfp!

Although im feeling better than i have done for well over a month!! No symptoms or anything today! Thank you for all your well wishes - good luck to everyone xxxx


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## Crossed4Luck (Jan 12, 2011)

I've recently had a 2/3 day embrio transfer, two embies. We didn't meet blast criteria, however before hand were thinking about out options and this was a dilemma. Now having had no choice and had 2 put back in earlier I'm trying to  gauge that age old question is 2 better than 1 (Even if blast)??

Thanks ladies!! x


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## Sarah21 (Jan 11, 2011)

I had a choice, but didn't know enough about the options when I made the choice.  By going to blast, meant we had no frosties
Still not sure what I would do next time

x


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## natalie34 (Jun 7, 2004)

I didn't have a choice due to the numbers.  I had 5 embryos all excellent quality - 3 put back to freeze and 2 put back on a Day 2 transfer resulting in a BFP.


x


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## MummyBear10 (Jan 7, 2011)

I still have a way to go yet but am just wondering if you get to decide yourself weather you have a 3, 4 or 5 day transfer or if it is down to consultant. I am thinking that 3 day is closer to natural pregnancy - get them back in where they came from asap? 
any advice, views, experiences ladies?


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## TwiceBlessed (Nov 8, 2006)

hi it will probably depend on your clinic and maybe your own situation as well as quality for embies etc?  At the time I had my tx mine only did day 3s  but now I think they do day 3s and blasts depending on individual circumstances.  Something to discuss with them or maybe find others on here from your clinic and see what they were offered.  Good luck xxx


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## MummyBear10 (Jan 7, 2011)

Thanks TwiceBlessed

I am hoping that should I be lucky enough to get that far, they will make the decision for me. I am terrible at making decisions about what to wear /eat /do etc let alone something as major as that! xxxx


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## MAQUIB (Jul 5, 2010)

Hi,
I've had my egg collection on Friday and was supposed to have the transfer yesterday but they told me that I have one blastocyst and it would be better to wait for Wednesday to try to get a second one (since I have 6 embryos in total).
They give you all the information and recommend you what they believe is best (in my case it was to postpone collection to Wed) but you are the one who makes the final decision.
It wasn't difficult for me since I trust them so I went with what they recommended. They know what they're doing.
Best of luck!
Maqui


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## MummyBear10 (Jan 7, 2011)

Maquib

Thanks for that hun and all the very best for ET tomorrow xxx


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## teresal (May 2, 2009)

i had 3 embies on a 3 day transfer and got a bfp and now have my beautiful daughter.

good luck


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Hi folks, opinions please!!
We are on our last chance having done 5 rounds of IVF. Incredibly this time round all 3 eggs have fertilised. The lab just phoned and we were discussing whether to transfer tomorrow or risk it and go to blast. I have all sorts of arguments going around in my head, a 2 day transfer.. well at least they would be inside me and not have the risk of them not liking the conditions in the lab, but then again if they aren't strong enough maybe they would be better off in the lab. If they make it to blast then its a good sign they are strong enough to go the distance.
What would you do?? Help!


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## staceysm (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi,

It is your choice, however I would most probably have them put back sooner then a 5 day blast.  3 embies is not a huge number and what if they don't make it to 5 days and you have none?  I had 3 day 5 embies graded A to C and my clinic wouldn't let them go to Blast, as only one was a grade A and they didn't want to risk losing them.  I had a grade A and B put back and now have a son.  I have 1 B and 2 C frosties waiting.  Sorry for sounding negative, its just the way I am.

Perhaps talk to the clinic in the morning and then make a decision then.

x


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## Jen xx (Mar 14, 2011)

hey

i had my ET last fri 2 days after EC and apparently its better if they are put back sooner rather than later..there was a programme on the other nite about ivf u could maybe watch it on iplayer its called bang goes the theory and a part in it says that study has shown that embryos have a better chance if there r put back sooner instead of goin to blasts..

hope this helps and good luck to u!!

Jenna xx


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Thanks for the opinions, at the moment I'm thinking we'll go to blast, if they don't make it that far then they probably wouldn't do any better in me. That and plus I have come down with a stinking cold so maybe it's better to wait a couple of days until I've got over that. It's worse than playing the lotto all this!


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## Jen xx (Mar 14, 2011)

if u watch that clip on iplayer it mite explain it bit better cos i no the clinic im in prefers to put them back 2 days after EC cos they have better chance bein in u than the lab!!have u had a 2 day transfer before or been to blast??

Jennaxx


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Hi Jenna, yes, in September last year had 2 put back (only 2 fertilised out of 3) one was a grade 1 4 cell, the other grade 3 4 cell, they didn't take. Last time  in November only 1 fertilised outof 2, they tried to take it to blast, it made it right up to day 5 when it stopped developing. I think my doc seems to be of the opinion that if they make as far as blast they stand a better chance and if they don't then they probably wouldn't do better if they had been transferred. The problem is so many clinics, so many docs, all with different opinions.
Wish I could get i player, I live in France so although we get UK tv (illegally!) by satellite we can't get i player as they can recognise the ip address is out of the UK.
I'll have to see if it's repeated or on U tube. Going to see what the lab says tomorrow.


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## Jen xx (Mar 14, 2011)

can u not get it on the internet?

yeah all docs have diff opinions so its hard to no who is right..

ive one week till i test so hopefully they were right this time 

Jenna xx


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Jenna, no that's the problem, when you log on the internet they can tell what country you're in from your IP address, if you're outside the UK you can't watch anything from the BBC or ITV so if we miss something unless it's repeated on normal TV we can't get it. Sometimes youtube comes up with stuff so I'll take a look. Good luck for your test, it really does your head in doesn't it!!!


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## Jen xx (Mar 14, 2011)

it does do ur head in surely..im back to work on tues thank god cos im bored senseless plus at least then the week mite go bit quicker till my test on april fools day lol!!

Jenna xx


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## Angel14 (Jan 30, 2011)

Hi Sarah,

Good luck with your ivf. I have done lots or research and also spoken to the head of embryology at my clinic and he says there is a 12-15% chance of added success with blasts. I really really want to get to blast stage, however, at my clinic unless you have six healthy embryos, they wont even consider atttempting getting to the blast stage.

Because the odds are lots better with blasts - thats why some clinics prefer single blast transfer because of the even higher chance of twins, although as i am 38 my clinic will allow a double blast transfer  

Jenna- thanks for the info on the documentry. Ready paused now to watch  

xxx


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## Jen xx (Mar 14, 2011)

no worries..

watch it surely..

they said that if ur havin icsi and have ur ET 2 days after EC then in can increase chances up to 50%-70%

Jenna xx


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

it really is difficult because there are so many factors to consider! I know my age is a big factor, the fact that I've got 100% fertilaisation is a miracle, then you have to consider the lab, what are they like?? I honestly don't know, france is very cagey regarding the success of ivf clinics and then you have to remember that some clinics play with the figures by refusing women who they don't think will have a chance because it will lower their percentage results.
I have to take a leap of faith in my clinic and my embryos and pray they get to blast, if they do from all the stuff I've read I think at my age I have a better chance of getting to the end result i.e a pregnancy that goes the distance.
All I can do is make the decison and keep you all posted so that maybe my experience will help other girls my age!


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Sarah. Spooky! I posted a very similar question on another board last night.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=259880.0

In summary, I don't subscribe to the 'embryo's are better in me than in the lab' school of thought. In a natural conception a Day 3 Embryo would still be in the Fallopian Tube not the uterus anyway. On this cycle we only have 3 embryos as of today, Day 1. We have decided that we will attempt to take them to Day 5 regardless. We are both comfortable that if they perish in the lab before Day 5 then it is extremely unlikely that a different outcome would have been achieved had they been transferred on Day 2 or Day 3.

Good Luck with whatever you decide. It is never straightforward, is it?

Jenna -I see you are on the 2WW, I hope it isn't driving you too mad & your embies are snugging in  

I picked up a different message from Bang Goes the Theory. I thought they were talking about a timeline of specific embryo development that they were now closer to understanding that meant they could predict with greater accuracy which Day 2 embryos would make it blast. It was still the fact that they would get to Blast that increased the pregnancy rate, not the fact that they were transferred on Day 2 which would only minimise any risk associated with keeping in a lab.

That's just my understanding of what they were talking about. I was slightly distracted with the notion of the embryologist clubbing the sperm over the head with a needle to render it immobile during ICSI!!!

Take Care All.

Milo x


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Thanks Milo, you've made me feel better about that decision!! I agree, we are of the same mindset to let them go to blast and if they don't get there it wasn't meant to be.
I just did a search and that bang goes the theory is repeated tonight on BBC 1 scotland at 8.30pm so I'll enjoy watching hubby's face with sperm clubbing bit!! There has to be some entertainment out of all this!!


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Hi
I wanted to add my experience, I had day 5 blasts transferred this week. I had 4 eggs at ec, 3 eggs fertilised day 1, and come day 5 all 3 were blasts, 1 at grade 1 and 2 at grade 2. Milo and Sarah I agree with you.


My view is if they are going to arrest I would rather they do it in the lab than in me and if they make it to day 5 then they are real fighters and they will be entering the environment at the same stage as they would if we were taking the more natural route.


Clubbing the sperm OMG.

x


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Fraggles, thanks so much for sharing your story.  That is a fabulous result from 4 eggs.  I hope they are all snuggling in tight.  Sticky vibes    

May I ask what you did on previous cycles?

My 3 are on Day 2 & first thing this morning 2 were 4 cell & 1 was 3 cell.  I won't get another update until 9am on Day 5, Monday so an anxious weekend!  ^nailbiting^ !

Sarah - how are you doing, have you had an update?

Milo x


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Hi

I had 2 iui's and one oeivf. I had 11 embies, 8 fertilised and one made it to blast as I had pgd that time but not this time as it is not reliable. I am in shock as all the time I was second guessing as I thought at my age there was no way I could be so lucky and had discussed potential dfet if I got to day 5 with nothing to show. My embies were ahead of where they should be at each stage and he said statistics say this shouldn't be happening and it was like someone much younger. I was so lucky and am in disbelief especially as this time round one of my ovaries nodded of to sleep and didn't wake up at all during drugs but my follies seem to respond really quickly to drugs with the one ovary that did respond. I will say that those of a similar age to me having fresh de have not been having such success so this was my last chance saloon with oe and I realise how fortunate how I am. If this doesn't work will have hysteroscopy at Serum and immune testing before next time round. I decided to have 3 transferred as I thought that sometimes things can change and what looks like a potential frostie changes and it is not viable to be frozen, at least in me there is a chance. But I am counting on the fact that I will end up with one or two because any more than that I am checking into the Priory as I am single.

I should say I would find it hard to move to de but I would have done and figured that at least leaving them to go to day 5 blasts also gave the option of dfet if I needed it.

Sarah everything crossed for you.

And Milo's embies you go. That's good so far isn't it?

When are you doing ET?

Here's to the three of us getting BFP's.

xx


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

OMG all of us have 3 eggs mmm is this a coincidence, is this a good luck sign I so think so.


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

W1nsome we all do what is right for us at the time so there is nothing to say that yours didn't work because of that. I have everything crossed for you. Due to my age it was more than I could have hoped for and wanted options as this IVF moneypit is almost empty. There is also lots of evidence that day 3 transfers work so we do what is best for us at the time with the information we have so it was never for nothing. Sending you lots of love and future hope and success.


There is no guarantees with day 5 blasts either.

xxx


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

W1nsome - ditto what Fraggles said.  On my last cycle I had been thinking along the same lines but in the end went with a Day 3 transfer.  Since then I have thought a lot more about it and we are where we are now.  I think the key thing is that leaving to Day 5 doesn't increase your chances of success above an earlier transfer (unless of course you have loads of embies & they use it to improve the selection process).  For me it simply brings forward the conclusion if it is to be a BFN.  Thanks for your good wishes & good luck with your future cycles.

Fraggles - It doesn't sound like you should give up on your own eggs yet, you seem to get an OK response, and this time from only one ovary.  The fact that you have got to blast each time is surely an excellent sign.  LOL at your priory check-in.  Can you imagine?  Triplets?  Jeez you would need it   Did your clinic have dfe's available for you if need be?  That's excellent.  I think mine are doing OK.  I just hope they make it through the weekend.  ET is pencilled in for 11am depending on how the call goes at 9am....

Let's hope that 3 is the lucky number for all of us     

Just watched the re-run of 'Bang Goes the Theory' and L'd OL all over again at the sperm clubbing  

Milo x


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Hi 


I am overseas so haven't been able to watch it yet but will look when get back. Yes clinic had dfet's for me as discussed my thoughts when had EC but also I am rh- which is rare so wanted to be thinking ahead.


Hope the 2 day wait doesn't drive you completely insane and sending those good luck vibes to your embies and am rooting for them.


I had ET at 11am too.


xx


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Fraggles - double spooky!  We are like cosmic twins  

I have just Googled Serum & see that you are somewhere hot - that's where the similarities end!  When do you fly home?

Your clinic sounds really thorough.  How does your blood type affect things?

Thanks for your good wishes  

Milo x


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Hi Just to keep you on your toes I am actually in Czech Republic   but have also been treated by Serum. Blood type is I am rh - which is rare and I wanted both donors if I needed it to be rh -. As I got donor sperm from Xytex and they at the time only had one donor with my blood type I thought I should give my clinic the heads up. 

x


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Good grief, I only popped out for a minute!! Just having to catch up with all of that!!!
Milo we had EC the same day, wednesday. Yesterday they told me I still had 3 eggs, one 6 cell and two 4 cell. I was surprised they were doing so well. The clinic will call me again tomorrow morning and hopefully ET will be Monday. Yes, it's nervewracking!!! I agree wholeheartedly with you Milo, if they make it to day five they must be fighters!!
Fraggles... 3 blasts transferred!! Thats scary! We decided if we get 3 to blast we'll only have 2 put back but it does go through my mind that if the 2 don't take could the one we freeze be the one and then it won't defrost well arrrggghhh!!
How old are you fraggles?? I'm 42 , 43 at the end of April, hanging on to being 42 not 43 because thats one more year and less chance.
Winsome, whichever way you do it, it aint easy! going to blast is awful but then a 2ww is even worse! Last time I only had 1 egg, that fertilised, made it all the way to day 4 then arrested, we were so gutted. 
We're in France and this is our last go because once I turn 43 we have no more funding and we simply don't have the money to go private.
Good luck everyone


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

OMG Sarah we are almost the same, I am 42, 43 the beginning of May and how funny my thought process about age is the same as you hence why I crammed another IVF in now. I also have endo. Lots of luck, so ET on Monday then?

xx


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Lol!! Looks like we are the three 3 egg club at the moment!! Fraggles, we make Milo look like a young whipper snapper!!!!!
When was your ET Fraggles and when is the test date??
Yes, everything is crossed for ET on Monday, just have to get that far which is doing my head in. I'm resisting the temptation to go and bang down the door to the lab demanding to know if they are still going!!
I'm off out for some retail therapy to take my mind off it!
Fraggles, does that make you a Taurean?? I'm pretty sure my horoscope was predicting big life changes so you never know! Both myself and hubby are Taureans, he's at the beginning of May as well.


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

How are you doing girls?? I had my call this morning and all 3 eggs are still going strong    I have never had that before, most I've had is 1 that made it to day 4 and two implanted on day 2 which didn't make it. Never had 3 eggs to fertilise let alone get this far, hope this is a good sign.
Fingers crossed we get to ET tomorrow Milo!


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

High Five, what did I tell you? It's a sign.   Congratulations.


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Hi Ladies 

Loving the thought of being a young whipper snapper   

How are you doing today Fraggles?  I hope the 2WW isn't driving you too demented.  You are getting around aren't you!  When do you come home - do your clinic do any kind of monitoring during the wait?  

Sarah - That is FAB news!!  Have everything crossed for you for tomorrow .  Will your clinic let you transfer all 3?

I have tried to keep busy this weekend, just been out for a massive walk with my friend & our dogs.  I have not been bad so far but I know tonight will be the hardest, I probably won't sleep a wink!  Pesky clinic not being open on a Sunday!  Will my embies be OK on their own

Milo x


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Milo, we are in the dilemma now, the original idea was to transfer all 3 but that was when we thought we were going for a 2 day transfer. Hubby and I decided if they all get to blast we'll only do 2 back but now I'm in a quandry!! I get the impression the lab are automatically going to prepare all 3 for transfer unless I say something. Oh dear, it's going round and round in my head. Hubby is terrified we'll end up with triplets, the liklihood is very slim but then again so was the liklihood of all 3 making it this far!
I am sure the pergoveris instead of puregon was what made the difference this time.
Lucky you out for a walk, it's drizzling here and cold, combined with the stinking cold I'm trying to shake off I've hardly stepped foot out of the house.
You must be going out of your mind waiting for the call tomorrow, it isn't enormously better having had the call this morning except that I know for the moment they are all ok but I still feel sick every time I know they are going to ring for an update.
Re embies being on their own, in a way thats better, I saw an article in our local newspaper saying about a new microscope that has been developed for monitoring embies. The clinic in Nantes (not where I am unfortunately) is trialling it and it means that they can check the progress without actually removing the dish from the incubator so the embies are not stressed by the sudden change in conditions and movement. So I guess your embies on their own without being moved all weekend can only do them some good!
Fraggles.... are you losing the plot yet??!
Good luck for the call tomorrow Milo


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

OK I don't get this not open on a weekend crap, hello, IVF clinic, IVF cycle and not open at the weekend is really not on and in my mind DO NOT GO TOGETHER. I am not impressed on your behalf.

AFM no symptoms, not going to dwell on it and feel quite relaxed at the moment as think I am of the school I can't believe it is going to work cos it ain't before. But not slitting my wrists negative either.

Milo, am sure they are playing some Barry White to create the right atmosphere for your embies.

Sarah I am a singlie and am terrified of triplets so with two of you he has nothing to worry about.  

Did you both do long protocols? I did short?

Fingers crossed for you both tomorrow.

xx


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Fraggles, I have done both long and short, this time was a short and in total I've done 4 short one long. The long was a disaster. Must say though, even though there are 2 of us we still wouldn't be able to deal with triplets. Twins, not easy but do able.

Totally agree with the bit about clinics shut at weekends, I was just talking about that with hubby. Find it incredible they manipulate womens cycles around their working hours and same for EC. Our clinic is open 24/7 everyday of the year except for 2 weeks in August but that's perfectly normal for France!! Holiday is sacred. You won't even be able to begin a cycle around that time if it coincides with the holiday period but 2 weeks a year in one go is better than every weekend.


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Oh and the other thing, IVF clincis manipulating womens cycles when most likely they are paying enormous amounts of money for the pleasure!! The amount they charge, the customer should be calling the shots!


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

I am so with you.


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Hi Ladies 

To be fair the clinic are open on a Saturday & do scans & ET's then, just no EC.  So it is only Sunday that they are closed.  When I asked the Embryologist if she was going to update me on Saturday she said no, I had made my decision so we should leave until Monday.  She said the way they were looking she was confident with what they would look like the next day.  I know I could have pushed for an update if I wanted but was also of the mind that a bad story would have made me feel even worse all weekend.  Originally they had wanted me in for EC on the Tuesday & I asked them to re-visit it as that would only give me the option for a Friday Day 3 transfer with them being closed on Sunday.  They pushed it to Wednesday.  You are right though, what if I had EC on Tuesday & what if I had several excellent embryos, how could they have chosen?  I suspect 24/7 clinics (in the UK anyway) will be a lot more expensive as they would need more staff to cover rotas.  I chose to self-fund at the same clinic that does Tx for my health board for my first 3 cycles.  This cycle is NHS funded so I had no choice but to stay.  I think if I do it again I would move clinic.  Sometimes I just feel like I am on a conveyor belt with not that much 1 to 1 attention whether I have been self funding or NHS.

Sarah, that is a dilemma.  I am not sure if it is the same in France but in the UK the clinics are driven by targets to reduce multiple pregnancies so if they were confident of one sticking they would likely try & persuade you to go with less anyway.  On the odd occasion when I have allowed myself to daydream that I will have the same decision, between 1 and 2 anyway, I have thought that it would depend entirely on whether the extra were strong enough to freeze.  if they weren't then I wouldn't want to lose that extra small chance.  Good Luck for tomorrow   

Fraggles - good that you are managing to stay somewhat relaxed - long may that continue!  I had long protocol first & they retrieved 6 eggs followed by 3 short protocols with 10,9 and 5 eggs.

Barry White??  LOL!!!


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Well I am on estrimax and utrogestan and to say I have the squits is an understatement, in honour one of the Sextuplets is going to be called Andrex as I think Andrex should sponsor any LO's that result of this IVF. You will also be reading that Sainsbury's profits have significantly increased over the next two weeks.

Well I do think a lots of jobs is just a bit like a conveyor belt but wasn't knocking your clinic more that sometimes these people are paid huge amounts they need to give their clients the service they deserve.

You guys keep me informed OK. 11am I will be sending you positive thoughts and checking up on you Sarah.

xx


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

I know you weren't, you are absolutely spot on, we have given them £k's over the last couple of years & other than the initial change of protocol no suggestion of doing anything different or further tests.

LOL at baby Andrex Fraggles.  Poor you though, that doesn't sound very pleasant at all  

Worth it though  

I am now officially keeching myself about 'The Call' tomorrow.

Thanks for your positive thoughts.

x


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Milo, in France it's usually the same but as this is my last chance I think they are happy to go with 3. All the other cycles they said they would only put 2 back but I've never been in the position to have the possibilty of 3 blasts so I don't really know for sure until tomorrow. If there are 3 blasts then I will stop them and ask.

Sponsored by Andrex!!!!   Fraggles, you're losing it girl!!!
Will let you both know as soon as I do!!! Try to chill out Milo, I know it's hard!


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Just had the call.  OMG!!  All 3 are still going  

2 are blasts and one is slow.  Interestingly the slow one is not the slow one from Day 2.  Just reinforces my decision I think.  I have to go in at 11am for ET. 

Sarah have everything crossed for you too.

Milo x


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Fantastic news Milo!Taht'll be such a relief to get them on board.
I got my call this morning, they haven't made it to blast yet. She said they can turn in a couple of hours so she's going to check again at lunchtime and call me back. I'm a nervous wreck, don't know if it's a bad sign or I'm just fretting. After the last time when our one embie arrested at day 4 I'm terrified.


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Oh, Sarah, you must be beside yourself.    I hope you get good news in a few hours.  What time was your EC on Wednesday? On Friday my embryoligist suggested that sometimes they had to wait until Day 6 to see the change.  Yours may just be on the cusp of it.

Take care, keep your chin up x x x


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Oh Sarah Honey I so know where you are coming from as I spent all last week fretting but having everything crossed for you Honey. Here's praying.

Have to go to the dentist (joy) so will check in when back.

F x


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Thanks girls, EC was at 10am Milo but the embryologist passed by my room around midday to say she would be doing the procedure that afternoon so I doubt whether they were done until at least 2pm. Hopefully that explains the delay. Should get the call in the next half hour   
Don't envy you going to the dentist Fraggles!!


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

As soon as I posted that I got the call! Well, they still haven't made it to blast but she reassured me that they were still evolving and one looked good. But.. as always you never know whats going to happen so another evening of nailbiting!!


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Now Milo doesn't need him I am sending Barry over to you. x


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Oh good grief!! I'll warn the lab technician! She might appreciate Sacha Distell a bit more though!!!
They ought to play some sort of music to them and see if it makes any difference!! You never know!


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

OK send Sacha then, anything to keep her happy.


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Mmmmh.  I don't think I have heard of Sacha Distell   

I have 2 on board, they are both 2BC.  Not top quality, but not too bad.  The 3rd is a bit behind & they will check again tomorrow.

Sarah - the fact that they are still evolving is fab news!  This is further than you have got before so can only be a positive.  They must be slow burners.  Think The Hare & The Tortoise 
I am sending them & you lots of positive vibes     

Milo x


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Thanks Milo! Great news, 2 on board, what will you do with the other one if it gets to blast too??
Sacha Distel!! A cheesy very old french crooner who was very charming with the ladies!!
I'm a bit up and down at the mo, think the progesterone is playing with my mood! Doesn't help I just went and had my hair cut and I hate it! I'm off to find a paper bag for my head! Stupid how a hair cut can take all your confidence away and make you feel ugly!!! Ah well, if I do get a bfp I've heard your hair grows faster so pleeeeeaaasssseee let it happen if only for that!!!  
It'll be funny if I get one blast, that'll make a 3, 2, 1 for us all!!! And the sad thing is is that we are all probably old enough to remember Dusty bin!! (Milo, if you don't then you really are a whipper snapper!!!!!)
Fraggles, how was the dentist?? Is it safe? (top marks if you guess the film!!!)


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

OMG yes dusty bin the highlight of saturday night tv   
No don't know the film unless it is something like a Quentin Tarantino?
Done my back in so off to the osteopath on wednesday.
Sarah I agree with Milo and have everything crossed for tomorrow. You still have 3 in the running at the moment don't you?

x


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Lol!!!! The film is a classic, Marathon man with Dustin Hoffman and Laurence Olivier!
Yes, still got 3 going for the moment so everything is crossed.
I don't know!! First the dentist now the osteo!!! Know how you feel with the bad back thing though, my IVF was delayed because 2 years ago I had major back surgery where they fitted me with a replacement disc in titanium! I am officially bionic! Incredible surgery, they went in through my tummy and moved all my intestines etc out of the way to get to my spine!! The scar is only about 3 inches long!!!


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

OMG did I say that really.
3 still going is great, they are still in the running so are made of tough stuff.
Oh my god not only do your embies go till day 6 you are now bionic women - look at this milo they talk about competitive parent syndrome in the playground but Sarah is starting it early.    
Do you think it is safe going to osteo on 2WW?
My god it is amazong what they can do with surgery.
Still on the floor kneeling with my hands clasped in the praying position for you Sarah but no forgetting to add a little word for my sextuplets and Milo's quads.

x


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Fraggles, sextuplets!! at least you'd have enough for a 5 aside team!!!! I saw in another thread someone said if they are blasts you have a higher chance of them splitting!! Thing is I don't understand why they would be more likely to split having been incubated in a lab as opposed to naturally! 
Whether I make it to ET or not I will have to keep an eye on you two, I'm desperate to know the outcome for you both!! Any history of twins in the family either of you?? My brother has 4 kids, 2 of which are identical twins... they only wanted a third and got a BOGOF!!!
I should think osteo would be fine but make sure you let them know but don't spend too much time on the floor praying because it won't help your back!
Any news on the third embie Milo??


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Sarah, that is amazing!  I have never heard of that before, as Fraggles says it is incredible what they can do now.  Did you get that done in France or the UK?  You surely are Bionic.  As are your wee embies!

I have absolutely no history of twins.  I have never heard of blasts having increased chances of splitting.  Defi increased chance of both sticking but I would have though the chance of splitting & having identical would be the same however you conceived.  I thought it was genetic anyway, is that a myth?

My third one was a bit slower, when the embryologist brought out the embryo development charts I am sure she indicated it was at the Morula stage.  She is going to check in on it tomorrow to see if suitable for freezing but not to get my hopes up as needed very good quality to freeze.  Such a waste, I wish they could just have put it back as well.  I asked if they had any discretion but apparently the law is the law!  Personally I think if you target clinics on multiple pregnancy rates and leave them to decide how many they can transfer then that could only be a good thing?

Be careful with the osteo Fraggles, defo tell him you have precious cargo on board.

xx


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

I think as a whippersnapper they transfer fewer but do agree with you.

Sarah why did you move to France? Is Oh French?

i used to be great at French ........ 23 years ago not used it since and can't remember it but watched a french film whilst I was away so think that I might actually start watching more as a way to get back to it.

xxx


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Yip, us WS's only allowed 2.  Age is the only factor in that rule I believe, could easily take number of attempts into account, not sure if anyone has every lobbied a change to the rules in that respect.

Oooh I went to see Séraphine a wee while back at the local arty cinema (that you can take wine into  ) I don't speak a word of French but loved it!


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Hi
My best mate lives in Oz, she took me to a great cinema in Sydney where you have a vegetarian meal before the movie (thrown into the price) with flooring cushions so you really flop out, it's very popular and great http://www.govindas.com.au/

Another great movie we went too in Australia, is a cinema with reclining seats and you can pre-order starters, main or dessert to come to you during the movie. They sure know how to do it over there.

I watched two movies when I was away for treatment heartbreakers (much better than the Hollywood version) and another with vanessa paradis.

xx


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Yes Milo, had the op in France, certainly wouldn't have got it on the NHS!! Thank my lucky stars, paid for mostly by the french health system and the rest by our complementaire which is private health insurance which everyone has to have but we have certainly had our moneys worth!!
The ivf is actually paid for 100% by the health service as they assess you and decide if you qualify, I did because of endometriosis and being under 43. You are entitled to 4 rounds of IVF/ICSI and it's only counted if you make it to transfer. Out of 5 rounds, I've only had one transfer but because I'm 43 next month my time is up.
Have to agree, it's not fair they don't take other things into account but then again my friend was in the same boat, she kicked up a hell of a fuss but the clinic she was at refused and insisted on only transferring ONE! Turns out she had twins!!!! Fraggles, you'd better start investing in that 5 aside football kit!!!
The post I was on about is on this forum 
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=260133.0

No idea how true it is, I've never heard it before either.
Do hope that embie makes it, like you say it would be a real waste!

Fraggles, no Hubby is English but he had the chance of a job over here so when he asked me I said "when do we go??"!! that was 10 years ago. You'll have to practice your French on me!! When I came here I didn't speak it at all, now we're both pretty fluent. If you're going to watch more french films, you must try 'Bienvenue chez les C'htis' it's not a highbrow type film I'm afraid, it's a comedy and absolutely hilarious! A postmaster whose wife is quite snobby and wants him to get transferred somewhere posh like Cannes. He tries to fake having an accident and being in a wheelchair to get priority transfer but gets found out so they send him up to the North near Calais as punishment! I think they were going to an English version based in the states using a New Yorker and the deep south!!
Like the sound of those Aussie cinemas, lolling on cushions!!!

Sorry girls, rambling a bit but it's taking my mind off 'that' call tomorrow!


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Oh Sarah Hollywood makeovers usually ruin the original, just going to look for film on itunes.


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

That post is about blasts 1 or 2? Are you talking about Quadzilla, i am sure she is much younger than me.


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Don't want to worry you Fraggles but...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6261430.stm

But... given your age, previous failures etc etc, I honestly think it would be a miracle if you ended up with more than 2 at the most! You do have the option of selective reduction if it came to it but easier said than done. Not sure what we would do. On the bright side, 6 of them would be around to look after you when you're old and grey!!!! Just need at least one to become a millionaire and you're sorted!
It was Liffy's comment about 3 posts down that mentioned 20% chance of twins

/links


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Hi
Not worried as only about 12% of getting a bfp at my age with blasts anyway so likelihood is low. Unless of course as my consultant said the devil isn't always sleeping.   
x


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

I found this:

http://www.oneatatime.org.uk/330.htm

Right at the very bottom makes a point about identical twins, seems the odds are increased between 2 and 5 times following fertility treatment.

I read somewhere else that odds are normally about 3% so increase to 6% to 15% seems more likely.

Quadzilla? RAOFL!!

xx

/links


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Have you heard about Quadzilla?


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

lol! Like the devil comment!! I feel the same way, the odds are so stacked against us at our age that it really would be  a miracle to even get pregnant. I'm now fretting about the embies not being able to break out of their shell to make it to blast and no one has ever talked about assisted hatching. Not sure if they even do it at our clinic. It would be sod's law if we get to this stage and then find that we needed assisted hatching. Oh dear, maybe I should just go to bed and try and sleep!
Are you back at work both of you?? I'm sort of lucky, I'm an English teacher and only have 2 lessons this week. Work is almost non existant but at least it means I can drop everything and head to the clinic without worrying, downside obviously no money!

Quadzilla?


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Yes apparent quadzilla is on FF (a friend on another thread told me about her) she had 3 put back & one split into identical twins- so she ended up with quads!!!


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

You are kidding!!!  Scary thought!!!!


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

duh!  I thought Fraggles was calling me Quadzilla after her Quads and Sextuplets quip!!

Sarah - what an amazing level of IVF support the French Health Service have, that is just astounding.

My local health board will fund 2 cycles and if the first one (this one) fails then I go to the back of the Q again.  Currently 2.5 to 3 years.  If I get back to the top before my 40th birthday I will get another shot.  Crazy approach.  My fertility will have diminished further and they will have to run all the tests again.  I think I would rather wait an extra few months initially and get both shots back to back.

For what it's worth I was reading about Assisted Hatching on the HFEA website today.  They seem to think there is no evidence of increased pregnancy rates.

I was back at work this pm, I work from home so I can duck out for early or late appointments and make up the time at night.  I am off for a fortnight from this Friday.  I wont be any use to anyone on 2nd week of wait and the next week I have taken off in case this doesn't work out.


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Hi
I thought the same about the French NHS - astounding.
xx


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Sarah, am off to bed now.  Everything crossed for The Call.  I hope you get some sleep. Good luck & keep us posted.

X x


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Sarah thinking of you. xxx


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Thanks, girls, unfortuantely it's not good news. Just got the call and all 3 have stopped developing. I'm in shock, I thought at least one would make it. The only information I could get out of the technician was that it was very difficult for an embryo to get to blast and that for example they were doing a transfer for one lady today who had had 23 eggs at EC and they only got 2 blasts. 
She was very nice, they always are but there is just a niggling doubt in me re the ability of the lab. I know it's easy to blame them rather than my crap eggs but just something screams at me 'what if' we had gone to another clinic, a different lab. I don't know,just gutted and searching for anwers. 
Had to break the news to hubby, I feel even worse now, he sounded so upset. Funny because he was half hearted about having kids from the beginning and the last couple of goes it's like he suddenly realised it what he really wanted
He even started saying, what now, what else can we try, should we go abroad. I was amazed, he's always been reluctant to consider that. Sounded quite interested when I mentioned Barcelona has a very good reputation. No idea how we would fund it but, we need to talk and if we decide then we'll find a way.
Sorry to break up the gang of 3   I'm definately going to hang around and see what happens for you two, I'm sure it'll work.... I just want to know how much of a football team you can cobble togethe between you! Keep those embies going girls xx


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Oh Sarah    my heart goes out to you I am so sorry. There is a way forward for you and we will both be here for you . xxx


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Thanks fraggles, also for the pm which I'm going to do some reading up of info later with hubby. Chat later xx


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Sarah, I am so, so sorry.  Look after each other     

Take some time out & then I hope you can find the strength to move on, perhaps try something different, a new clinic as you say.

We are here for you.

Milo xx


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Thanks girls,
I think number 1 lose weight, 2 sort out the endo, 3.... who knows, maybe try again I'm not ruling it out.
Keep me updated on your progress girls, you've already got further than me so your chances are good! I'll keep everything crossed for you. I'd feel happier about us not making it if you two did!


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

If you go to Peny I would think she would ask you to have the c-test which is hidden chlamydia which affects outcome and a hysteroscopy/laproscopy to identify whether there is anything preventing implantation when it DOES HAPPEN FOR YOU. We will be here for you until all 3 of us having live, screaming and kicking LO's.


x


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

We're going through all the what if's and discussions this evening.... already through most of a bottle of wine and no doubt another on its way!
Already been tested 2 or 3 times for chlamydia, toxicoplasmosis, rubella all the usual std's Had a hysterogram (french hysterosalpingographie where they inject dye into the womb and fallopian tubes and x ray you) That was ok, no blockages. I have a small fibroid but they don't think it's a problem. The hysterogram was how the doc I changed to spotted immediately as opposed to the other doc I wasted a year on who either saw it and didn't say or just didn't see it. I feel I wasted so much time as  he made me do all those rounds of clomid and then more for IUI when the doc I have now said I could never conceive without IVF.
I just wish I could actually get to the blast stage, I am still gobsmacked all 3 stopped. The fact that the technician said to about that other woman who had 23 eggs but only got 2 blasts.... I thought the blast rate was 50%, that's well below so does it indicate a problem with the lab?
oh dear, going round and round now and so will my head be after the next few glasses!! Milo said to have a goldfish bowl sized glass of wine... think I'm going to have the whole aquarium!!!!!
Will definately consider those clinics Fraggles, thanks for the info xx


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Sarah with any luck your drunken activity with your OH tonight will give you a lovely surprise. You must do what feels right for you. At Serum they remove any fibroids and do implantation marks to make it easy for embie to implant, if I get a BFN this time I am having it done, they also remove all the scar tissues that prevents implantation. Many UK girls were told it wasn't a problem when they had hysteroscopy here yet when had it done in Serum they removed stuff and then later they got their much longed for BFP.


ARGC in the UK I have just seen have a 40% success rate for our age group. Wow.


You go for the aquarium and ensure you have some for me. Make sure you have the ibuprofen ready for the morning.


xxx


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## staceysm (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi Sarah,

I have read your posts and I am really sorry at your news.  I just wanted to add that it isn't a 50% rate of embies make it to blast, you have a 50% chance of getting pregnant with a blast.  

I was just surprised that your clinic let them try and get to blast stage, as I previously said, I had 5 good embies, but they said it wasn't enough to risk going to blast, as so few embies get to that stage.

However, I understand that what I have wrote doesn't change the situation, but I really hope you get a BFP and perhaps it is a good idea to look at other clinics.

Good luck.

Stacey


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Thanks Stacey, my clinic went to blast because I think in their opinion if they don't make it that far they won't do better if they are put back earlier. I could have gone for a 2 day transfer but I've already had 2 put back at that stage and didn't work so I think I needed to see them get to blast as there is a higher chance of pregnancy with at that stage.
Going to reflect and make our plans after some research but a different clinic is definately a possibility.
Fraggles, ARGC, hmm.. looks interesting I'll check it out.
Look after those beans girls!


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Hi Ladies,

Just been out for some coffee & cake with my very good friend who is doing her best to keep me busy!

Sara, I am glad you are having some good talking time, helped along with some fine French wine!

I think you & the clinic made the right decision to go to Day 5.  I honestly believe the outcome would have been no different with a Day 2 transfer, the agony would just have been delayed.  At least now you have new information that you never had before as you never got to see how long after Day 3 your previously good embryos survived.  My embryologist was off the same opinion when we discussed my situation.  With 3 failed Day 3 transfers under my belt with reasonable quality it was time to find out if all my embryos arrested early or whether the issue is potentially later on.

From what I have read culture to Day 5 requires a different medium & not all clinics may have this perfected.  There is definitely a lot to be said for lab quality.  I guess the easiest way to find out would be to ask for their stats.  2 out of 23 certainly doesn't sound very good.  If this is consistent across the board then may point to an issue with lab technique.  I would hope they wouldn't have suggested it though if there was any doubt as to their ability.

Looks like Fraggles has given you some good pointers for clinics worth speaking to.

Stacey, are you on the 2WW just now?  How are you feeling?

Flippin' Fraggles - no point in asking, your new name says it all!!  You know that doesn't mean anything don't you?  Bloomin' 2WW mind tricks   

Milo x


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Milo, coffee and cake, yummy!!! Limit the coffee and have double helpings of cake (or should that be quadruple helpings!!!)
I agree, I don't regret in principle going to day 5 but I am having some doubts in the clinics ability.
I just looked in a bit more detail on assisted hatching and found it's done on day 4 because the embryo may not have the energy to break out. When I mentioned this to the technician this morning she seemed to think there was no problem because they had fertilised and become embryos, she seemed to miss the point that breaking through the intial skin to fertilise is not the same as the zona which is the last stage between morula and blast. This really makes me think, I've had 4 embies which made it to days 4/5 and 5/6 so is that the problem and my lab aren't advanced enough to even know about it.
Haven't had a chance to look at that link you posted, must do that... maybe when I'm sober!!!!
Well, no point crying over spilt milk but gives u something to think about.
Fraggles, sort your id out!!! tried to reply to a pm and it doesn't recognise you now!!!! Pity, was an entertaining reply which I'm sure you'll appreciate!!!!!!


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Sara is obviously an aggressive drunk now her true picture comes out    Try replying to Flippin' Symptomless Fraggles my temporary name for this 2 weeks of insanity.


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Lol. tried replying to that and your original name!!! Think I'm more sober than you and you're drunk on hormones!!!!


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Do you think you'll make it through 2 weeks without being sectioned?


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

OMG read this http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=260149.0;topicseen and this was the result of a single embryo transfer GULP - what do you call 9 kids if all my three split three ways.


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Oh good grief... Quadzilla really exists!!!!!! And wow! triplets with one embie.... Fraggles............. is there even a term for nine of them!!!  

And.... no, each time I've clicked on reply to your pm's I type it all out, press send and get a message saying this member doesn't exist so there you are... a vacuum in cyberspace!!


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

neuftuplets maybe


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Changed it back to Fraggles now :-(


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Right I'll give that a go!!


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Here you go

Two offspring — twins 
Three offspring — triplets 
Four offspring — quadruplets 
Five offspring — quintuplets 
Six offspring — sextuplets 
Seven offspring — septuplets 
Eight offspring — octuplets 
Nine offspring — nonuplets 
Ten offspring — decaplets 
Eleven offspring — undecaplets 
Twelve offspring — duodecaplets 
Thirteen offspring — tredecaplets 
Fourteen offspring — quattrodecaplets 
Fifteen offspring — quindecaplets


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Who on earth came up with that lot!!!


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Mr Google


Please please     Just two at the most for me please.


Let my high risk strategy carry on working. And can the devil stay sleeping until after I have my BFP for singleton or twin.


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Fraggles, it will work and you you will only have twins max!! Believe!!!


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Like I said before I definitely think you made the right decision to go to blasts as you know the outcome and aren't left wondering. I hear from many IVF experts that it is those clinics that may not be so au fait with the latest lab techniques who plump for day 2/3 transfer as they want them out of the lab sooner than later to reduce their liability. And the other client may still have had poor quality embies as I have heard the fewer the embies the better the quality. The more the embies the lesser the quality. 


Me and my mate Milo only had a few embies and are proof that even with only a few embies they can make it to blast so congratulations for your conviction and trying something different.


You will one day be a fab mum and Milo's sextuplets and my nonuplets will have a playdate with your quins.


xx


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Not sure I like 'nonuplets'  doesn't have the best ring to it does it?  On the plus side you would probably get sponsorship & advert deals so nappys & things would be well covered?

Decaf for me you will be pleased to know.  Big fat slice of cake too  

Sara, that sounds a bit of a bizarre conversation with the lab.  Was there a language barrier?  

What is the code for the lmao smiley please?  I have been hunting for ages & it has dropped off the secret smiley list.  You used it a couple of posts back Sara?

xx

P.S Ditto what Fraggles just said about liability.  Not just in terms of accidents & culture but I think they would rather report a positive transfer even if negative than no transfer at all.


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

So Milo is alive then


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

this one?


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Hang on a minute... quins?? must go back and look that one up again!!!!
One thing that comes to mind is that when I was in hospital the technician came by to see me and seemed to think we were going for 2 day transfer, I said I thought it was blast and she said the embies were better off back in the womb rather than the lab. I didn't comment but next day a different technician gave me the call and we discussed blast again, she said if the doc said blast we would do blast. Today the technician I spoke to said I shouldn't regret my choice because if they didn't make it to blast they wouldn't have done any better in my womb.... ok... I'm ****** but surely thats a contradiction??

Hi Milo, join the insanity!! No, no language barrier, my french is pretty much fluent and if there is soemthing I don't catch I always ask. The Zona is the same in French and English and assisted hatching is eclusion assisté (now there's a useful bit of information if ever you need it!!)
Hmm... there is some sparkly wine left in the fridge.... boyyyy am I gonna have a hangover!

Secret smilies Didn't know I was using them gosh, aren't I clever in my enebriated state!!.. hmm not sure that's spelt right!! Me The English teacher an all!!!


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

I'm here Flippin' - did you miss my coffee & cake update a couple of pages back?

Yip that is the one.  

 

Sara that is definitely a contradiction.     I do think the IVF world is divided on it so I guess it stands to reason they might have different views.  You would expect the clinic to be joined up though.

Get the sparkly wine out!!

xx


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

ohhhh dear... gonna regret it tomorrow but what the hell!!!
Good call on decaff Milo.
Think Fraggles has disappeared into her rock for the night!!  She's certainly manic tonight, thats what 2WW does to you though, you'll be the same in a few days probably! I'll try and keep you both sane!


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Exactly, what the hell!  You deserve it!  I hope you can manage a nice lie in in the morning as well.

I am off to bed now, up for work tomorrow 

Thanks for hanging about & giving us moral support, You are right we will need it as the insanity kicks in proper in a few days.

Sleep well & speak soon.

Milo x


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Look Milo/Sara just to let you know I am planning a play date for our LO's cos be it this year or next we will all get our BFP's even if S and I happen to be in the old people's home before we give birth. Judging on our ages next b'days we have at least another 15 years to go.   


First sign of madness has started I think I am starting to imagine symptoms that aren't there.    


xx


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Fraggles, they can hang off our zimmer frames!! 
Well, I'm feeling better than I ought to! Had a super long lie in, only got up bceause I have a lesson. On auto pilot today because it's sinking in a bit and I'm getting more and more convinced the lab weren't competent enough. I know my old eggs are the biggest factor but I just don't understand how all 3 can fertilise and then all make it to day 5 then all go together. 
So come on the Fraggles, what symptoms are you imagining!!!
Milo, I got to the 2ww once so know what it's like, week one isn't too bad.... week 2 on the other hand      
I'll try and take your minds off it!!!
Right... off to work, it may only be one and a half hours but it's something!


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Jeez.  I always wondered how people 'lost' posts.  Just happened to me, got a pop-up's blocked alert when I went to spell check, allowed them and wham, post was gone.  I shall try again!

Sara, I am glad you have managed to get a good rest & the wine is not punishing you too much.  Good that you are getting out of the house, even for a short while, to focus on something else.  Will you both go away for a short while to regroup?

I agree the first week is OK.  I am not looking forward to next.  I will be off work & I am lining up as many lunches & jaunts as I can.  My DP wants me to get a website going for his photography.  I did a web design course about 12 years ago & then never touched it.  I am sure it will keep me busy trying to figure it out!

Of course, I look forward to you & Fraggles's banter! (As an English teacher, perhaps you would tell me if my apostrophe is in the right place?  I never know!!)

Fraggles, you make me laugh, I now have a visual of you both in the old folks' home!  (I would roll about laughing on the floor with you if you would remind me how   !)

What day was your ET?  I only know it was last week.  How many days in are you?  How are you feeling?

Take Care

Milo x


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Milo, yes your apostrophe is in the right place!!! However, seeing as Fraggles ends with an 's' you aren't strictly obliged to put an extra 's'. So you could just put Fraggles' banter!
If you need something to do you could always do a web design for me Milo!!! I'm a potter as well as an English teacher. I was really getting off the ground a few years ago and then we moved house. Hubby is wonderful but isn't the fastest in the world so it's taken around 5 years for him to finish restoring my workshop. I intend to get back in there next week and get working doing some jewellery and loads of throwing because I have the offer of a solo exhibition next year.
I have a website but it's one of the free ones from Orange and very outdated now. This year it's on the to do list to sort out a new fancy modern one where people can actually buy stuff online.
Take a look at the old one and you'll get an idea of what I do. 
http://monsite.orange.fr/saragrace

I think I want to have another go at this IVF lark, and I'm going to get my pottery going again to try and raise the money. English teaching is really hard to find at the moment, no one has the money to pay the going rate so unless I want to sell myself short then it isn't paying as well as it could.

So where are you off to Milo? Anywhere nice?? I'd love to go away but it might just have to be a long weekend in Brittany. Just need to wait for it to stop raining!!!

I think Fraggles' ET was Friday which would make OTD 8th/ 9th April??

/links


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Hi

Insanity is here well and truly. Got no  money apart from credit cards so what have I been doing buying size 12 clothes.  Errhhh hello how are my sextuplets or nontuplets going to be able to fit into  them along with me.
Yes imaginary symptoms. Haha Milo you think  you need to wait until the second week, don’t kid yourself. I have no symptoms,  my logical rational brain knows this. I don’t think I have a bfp within  touching distance. Now come on girls we all know cucumber has little if no  taste. Right. Yes of course I’m right. But I have convinced myself that  cucumber skin tastes putrid. I know I am being highly illogical, totally insane  cos it has NO TASTE.
Milo, you could always practise your  webdesign on me as am planning on going into business and have no idea where to  start!! A simple one would be good.
Sara, pleased you are feeling better than  you expected. What’s the weather like with you at this time of year? Is it usual raining. And you do pottery do you must be talented, perhaps you can bring one as a house gift when you and your brood come and stay.   


xx


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Fraggles you are definately losing it!!! Anyway, cucumber is disgusting pregnant or not!! 
Size 12 clothes.... woman... what are you on?   I suppose if it's trousers you might be able to shove 2 babes down each leg as a sort of sling!!
What business are you hoping to start? Rent a crowd?? Seriously though, what do you want to do?
Sure I could manage a house gift but given the numbers of screaming kids there will be you should come here, we could stick them all in the barn or the stables!!


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

I agree, cucumber is disgusting. Full stop!

Sara - WOW!  Your pottery is lovely!  That will be fab if you can get going in your workshop soon!

I am glad you have decided to have another go, don't give up.   

I am not going anywhere too far, just out & about.  I am partial to a farm shop & a wee scone & jam!!  My mum will visit & most of my friends have young school age kids or are teachers.  It is the school holidays here next week so plenty company.

LOL at the trouser-baby-sling!  ^lao^ ^lmao^ ^rofl^ ^raofl^ ^notfunnyanymoretellmehwhatitisplease^

Any more symptoms Fraggles?  I have spots, spots & more spots.  Have been taking DHEA for the last couple of months so should be used to them by now.  Must be the progesterone causing them just now.  

Going to get my weekly Glee fix now while DP has his nose stuck in photoshop.

Milo x


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

No symptoms. I am disgusted and convinced it hasn't worked. xx


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Fraggles, stop it!!! You aren't likely to be overcome by symptoms at this stage and you know that! You could easily be pregnant but have no symptoms whatsoever so it aint over till the fat lady sings!

Thanks Milo, I will be up and running soon.
Trying to do some research about having another go, it's doing my head in. I spent all afternoon putting together a calender of all my treatments , blood results etc etc. I was horrified to see it laid down on paper. Last year I started IUI's in january on puregon and did 3 cycles back to back! In other words, full cycle, IUI, 10 days later AF came and I started another round of puregon on day 2, jeeze that is horrendus, no wonder my ovaries are exhausted.

Jan 22 2010 - IUI 3rd feb 
AF came 13 feb started puregon 14 feb IUI 26 feb
Af came 9 march started puregon 10 march IUI 24 march

Had a break until end of May then did IVF ec 13 June no fertilisation,
Another go in August,
Another in Oct/nov
Another in Dec
last one in March 2011

And before all that I had done 3 rounds of clomid and trying naturally in Sept Oct Nov 2009! Incredible that my FSH levels have only gone up from 7.7 to 9.9!


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Fraggles - sending you a massive does of PMA            you have read enough on the pages of this forums to know that symptoms or no symptoms can mean anything.  Try & keep your chin up  

Sara - that is a lot of treatment   You deserve a wee break to plan your next move for sure.


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## katena (Nov 14, 2007)

Hiya All,

I just wanted to ask a question...

Were having egg share and had 25 eggs collected - so 12 for me.They started to talk about going to blast then... our donor sperm wasn't as expected after the thaw so they did icsi. 

Of the 12, 10 were mature but only 3 fertilised. (i know that it only takes 1 but i am a bit gutted) But now they say a 3 day transfer is better.

I dont understand why? why not 5 day when we have 3? Are they worried the eggs wont split and get to blast stage?

ALso - with hfea guidance theyre saying they only want to have 1 egg put back... at 3 day transfer the success is higher with 2 isn't it?

Sorry for the millions of questions... but any help would be great!

karen


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## staceysm (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi,

To allow 3 embies to get to blast stage is very risky, so I would say your clinic has made the right decision.  I had 5 embies and my clinic wouldn't risk getting to blast as very few make it to that stage.

There was  a lady on here last week who had 3 embies that were going to blast and on the day none of them made it and she ended up with none to transfer.

It is your choice, but you can really try and push for 2 embies to be put back. My clinic allowed me to have 2 put back as I was over 35 yrs old and now have a son.

I wish you both lots of luck.
x


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## Angel14 (Jan 30, 2011)

Hi

My clinics policy is a day 3 transfer if less than 6 healthy embryos and day 5 if 6 or more. Also at your age, only 1 to be transferred.

Speak to your clinic they will be more than happy to explain things.

Good luck Karen xx


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## AmandaB1971 (Feb 19, 2006)

Unless somethings changed recently (which it may have done) then the HFEA Guide is only that a guide.  You can still present your case to your clinic and see if you can't negotiate two if that's your preferred choice.

Axxx


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

I think Stacey was referring to me when she talked about the lady who had 3 and ended up with none!
Yes I ended up with none but I don't regret having tried to go to blast. Obviously clinics have differing ideas but mine are of the opinion if they aren't strong enough to make it to blast then transferring them at day 3 won't change anything.
I firmly believe that had I had all 3 put back at day 2 or 3 it wouldn't have changed a thing except to prolong the agony with a 2ww.
The advantage of going to blast if you have more eggs is that they can identify the strongest ones and eliminate the weak ones.
Personally I would go for blast again because day 2/3 embryos would normally be in the fallopian tubes at that point not floating around in the uterus. 
I found this on a web site. 
http://www.ivf.com/blastocyst.html
Fingers crossed it works for you, and if you can push for more than one.


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

OK admittedly I have some bad news today so apologies if this post isn't all fairy and light and I wouldn't have announced this news quite yet. However needs must.

There was a lady on here who had 3 embies she wanted to go to blasts but unfortunately they didn't. But so you get the whole story there was also a lady on here who had 3 embies, 3 eggs fertilised, 3 blasts and now has a BFP. I do not recommend 3 embies/blast transferred at your age I should add!!! You have age on your side.

I am 43, I had own egg ivf two weeks ago, 3 eggs collected, 3 eggs fertilised, 3 eggs made it to 5 day blast. 1 x grade 1, 2 x grade 2 blasts. I have so far defied statistics and hope to continue to do so. I am pregnant. As my consultant said statistics say that the way my embies developed it shouldn't have happened. Those who were much younger than me and had de had embies that arrested long before then. I choose the high risk strategy after discussing it with my consultant as for my specific case I wanted options. I took the view as did my consultant if they were going to arrest they would arrest be at 3 days or 4 days and yes I would be devastated if I hadn't have made it to ET but that the outcome would be the same be it in my body or in the lab. If they didn't make it 5 days I had arranged with my consultant to have DFET instead but I would have known the outcome at least of trying to go to blast.

My recommendation to you is do not listen to what any one else suggests but ask your consultant for what you would like to happen and feels right for you and see what you can negotiate. You are young so that's great you got started early congratulations and I can totally understand why they would want to transfer fewer at your age. I did read about one person have set and it split in 3 so is having triplets. 

Discuss it with your consultant and see if he will transfer 2 if that is what you wish or if you can go to 5 days but if that is the decision you do need to be prepared for the disappointment of not making it to ET. Often some clinics do not want to go to 5 days because there is more of a liability on them and they don't want to take the risk.

I am sure whatever you decide to do and you and your consultant decide will be what is best for you.

I wish you lots of good fortune and know one day that you will be posting about your BFP.

F x


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Hi Karen,

This is my 4th cycle & I pushed for a Day 5 transfer, even with 3 embryos.  My embryologist confirmed my belief that if they perished in the lab then they would not do any better in me.  I was completely reconciled with the possibility of there being nothing to transfer on Day 5.  I did not take my decision lightly & it has only come about after 3 failed cycles (all Day 3 transfers) and lots & lots of research.

The only real reasons they could give me for not going to Day 5 was the increased chance of a lab accident.  

My clinic have an excellent lab as it is part of a teaching hospital, always running large research projects so I had no doubt in their culture environment which is a big factor in successfully keeping embryos until Day 5.  I knew if my embryos did perish before Day 5 then it would be down to the quality of my embryos and not to do with the lab's ability.

As it happens all 3 survived, 2 were put back & the third arrested on Day 6.  They were not excellent quality but now I know that my embryos can get to the blastocyst stage.  Previously we assumed that they perished as soon as they were transferred. 

I had 2 transferred as the clinic thought this would maximise my chances based on the quality & my history.  The clinics are driven by an HFEA requirement to keep multiple pregnancies below a certain level while maximising successful cycles.  If they think there is a really good chance of your embryo sticking they will suggest only 1.

Wishing you lots of luck & I hope your embies are dividing nicely.

Milo x


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## Rachel2 (Oct 3, 2004)

Hi- I'm in the same camp as fraggles and milo and will be pushing for blast whatever. It is a very personal decision though and so you are doing the right thing considering it carefully. In my case, on the 2 occasions that I went to blast the 2 resulting blasts were not the embryos that would have been chosen on day 3- the embryologist told me this. We have never had much luck with thawing embryos and so if we make blasts i want them put in fresh! The uterus is a more natural environment for blasts too. I have also heard embryologists say that some clinics prefer to get the embryos off their hands on day 3 as then the cycle does not have to be recorded as one that didn't manage to get to et. You must really believe in all of this though if you do decide to go for day 5 whatever, as you could end up with nothing and always regret it. The only reason I can do it is because I truly believe that if they're going to fail they will fail whether in the culture medium or in the uterus. Good luck whatever you decide and I hope your embryos are doing fantastically xx


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Hi

Just to let you know after several hpts. much disbelief and a blood test to confirm 5 day blast worked and I have a BFP.

MUch love and good luck to anyone else still waiting.

xxx


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## AmandaB1971 (Feb 19, 2006)

Oh that's brilliant Fraggles!!

  

Axxxxx


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

WOOP WOOP!!

Fab News Fraggles!!       

Wishing you a happy & healthy pregnancy!

Milo x


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Brilliant news Fraggles!! Now all we want to know is..... how many!!! When is the first scan??


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## hakunamatata (Jul 5, 2008)

Thats fantastic news fraggles, good for you chick, how many days after transfer did you test, im so tempted!!

time to celebrate honey xx


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Oh Hankunamata do as I say not as I do. Wait till your OTD to avoid disappointment, my "supposed" OTD is umm this coming Saturday but tested on Thursday 31st, my ET was the 25th.


Sara you bring tears to my eyes. No idea when first scan is sometime the end of April and am thinking it is just one strong one who I   sticks till EDD.



xxx


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

It will!! Remember pma!!!


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Evening Ladies.

Not good news here I am afraid.  It is officially all over again.  AF arrived with full force at tea time so I tested to confirm.  Of course, BFF'nN.

Milo x


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

Oh no Milo, I'm so sorry. Big hugs to you, wish there was something I could say to make it feel better but I know there isn't.


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## Milo73 (Jun 28, 2010)

Hi Sara, how are you doing?  I have spent the afternoon scrubbing the BBQ which the dog has been peeing up all winter!!  Sparked up now, burgers out, gold fish bowl of Sauv & a bit of sunshine.  Hope you are enjoying your weekend.

Fraggles, I trust you are well & enjoying your evening of culture.

Milo x


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## saragh (Sep 20, 2009)

A big bowl of sauvignon, there has to be some recompense! We had dinner outside tonight, sea bass with plenty of red wine!
Our bar b q is in the form of an out building which used to be a boulangerie with a bread oven, now converted!!
Just had rhubarb crumble with rhubarb from the garden and have enough fresh asparagus for dinner tommorow! Absolutely stuffed.


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## Fraggles (Jul 3, 2009)

Hi Back home. Went to a playhouse to see theatre, tickets only £13 but acting wise we got what we paid for   but a day out. Went to restaurant by the Thames so had fantastic views so a lovely day out but chill in the air when we left.

Sara been thinking so much about you. Your day sounds lovely.

Milo how's the head after the sauvignon.

One of my male friends guessed my condition when I didn't have my usual vino and the majority of items on the menu were now things off the menu for the next few weeks. But that was fine as he insisted on paying the bill. 

Am going to message you a little story about the guy, a friend of mine going through a midlife crisis.

x


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