# Help :(



## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Is there anyone that can offer me some advice please  iv being ttc for over 4 yrs , failed ivf 3 times and now one of my closest friends is pregnant on her 3rd ! I work with her and this is driving me beserk !!!!!!! I pretty much distance myself from all pregnancy and I can't do anything this time , im so bad right now I actually hate her and I know thats horrible but its where im at , how can I cope every day  I am considering leaving work which I know is rash but I cannot bear being near her , please please please can anyone offer a suggestion or a coping mechanism ! Infertilty is so evil and now this just tops it off


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## patbaz (May 21, 2010)

Empty dreams I understand how difficult this is I too had a friend who announced her pregnancy to me the day I got a bfn. In fairness to her she had no clue that I had been through fertility treatment but it was like a knife through my heart. 

All I can say is that time helps. Focusing on your next step or phase of tx is a good one. Try to make sure that you're not in a position to see her every single minute of everyday. I don't know how close you are but maybe distancing yourself from her for a while. 

It's really crappy but the worst thing is us ladies who have suffered because of IF are always going to face this hurdle with little sympathy from anyone. You just have to find a way that helps you to cope. Take care x


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Thanks for your reply  unfortunately I work right next to her all day long and because we r so close its blatantly obvious theres an elephant in the room !! I really dont know how im going to get through this and not have it effect the friendship, im really at the lowest point iv ever been , iv managed to take control of my infertilty and then this knocks me for six  I know theres far worse things but right now this is my hell


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## patbaz (May 21, 2010)

Could you take some time off ?


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Yeah I could I suppose but I just feel she will still be there when I come back and prob with a big bump then , I went through 2 pregnancies already with her but it was towards the beginning of things for me so I was more hopeful . I get on so well in work and iv been there 9 yrs I feel if I leave and come back im like the crazy lady and il be so self concious 
How are you feeling about your journey ? We told nobody originally too but its so hard 
Maria


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## patbaz (May 21, 2010)

At the minute I'm in a good place I got my BFP on my fifth tx. I have a scan on Friday when I should be 7 weeks but honestly I am rally worried as I feel something isn't right. So I am not going to celebrate until I see a little heartbeat. I've had mc in the past which destroyed me. All the ladies in my work are forever going off on maternity leave. I have been married longer than most of them and they are on baby no3/4/5. I also have a very fertile sil who seems to always announce a BFP just after another failed tx. It's hard not to be jealous but I love my nieces and nephews to bits. It doesn't stop me asking why not me though?  

It's taken me a long time to learn how to handle my emotions. Not telling anyone has made it easier for me in a way because I know that people are not looking to me for a reaction. I am also quite a good actress and collapse in tears some days when I get home 

Life is hard but I've learned to make the most of my situation and try to be kind to both myself and DH.


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Oh im going to pray really hard that you get fantastic news on Friday, because of all we have been through its only natural to be fearful and doubt, I really really hope u get the news u so deserve xx 
I totally understand the reaction thing you mean thats where I went wrong telling people in work as now they all watch my reaction all the time and its way more pressure 
Take it easy now and positive thoughts all the way I honestly hope  everything goes well , we deserve a break so badly now 
Thinking of you
Maria xxxxx


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## patbaz (May 21, 2010)

Thanks Maria. Just remember though. People probably aren't looking for your reaction but you're more likely to feel that way when people know. 

One other thing huni and I feel it's really important. It's not your fault and you are not doing anything wrong xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Thank you ☺☺ yeah its such a minefield of emotions blaming yourself is def mixed in there ! Days like this I wish I was a man they seem to feel the pain without it consuming them , must be their smaller brains !!!! Only joking 😅😅😅


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## patbaz (May 21, 2010)




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## Fx (Feb 28, 2012)

Hi ED
I know exactly how you feel. I have recently been promoted and I am now managing a colleague (and friend) who is pregnant and it is torture. I want to completely ignore it, which is the way I normally cope with other peoples pregnancies, but in this situation I can't.
I know some might say it is selfish to 'ignore' a pregnancy, as we of all people know how very special it is, but I spent years trying so hard to say the right things and react in the right way that I completely exhausted myself. I have not kept my treatment/journey a secret, so most people know and are very considerate and when yet another friend/colleague announces their pregnancy I usually congratulate them (preferably in private) and then keep it very low key. I feel they can celebrate it and have all the attention they deserve from everyone else-it doesn't really matter if I don't participate.
Could you try explaining to this girl how difficult it is for you, and explaining that whilst you understand what a happy occasion it is for her, you are finding it hard? She might then keep all pregnancy chatter away from you which would make it easier to be around her? I wouldn't leave your job if you enjoy it. Xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi Fx
I totally identify with what your saying , torture sums it up best  I also ignore pregnancy and when that is taken from you its panic stations !!!! Its amazing how someone I would of considered one of my best friends I now am emotionally and physically uncomfortable in her presence, I passed her husband earlier driving home and I could feel a horrible vibe from the way he looked at me , iv cried in work few times and shes prob telling him this and hes prob only naturally disliking me if iv upset her its hard enough what we r going through without the constant reminder of what we cannot have ! I hope it gets easier and maybe if we get through this we ll only get stronger , my colleague is only 7 weeks which is ridiculous that she's told people in work
I hope tmr and each day gets more managable  fo us and at least we know we r not the only ones in such a horrible situation 
best wishes
Maria xx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey ED, I thought I'd add my bit as I went through the exact same thing in 2012.  My friend at work knew I was going through IVF, or was hoping to as I hadn't started then, I'd just been having tests.  She got pregnant and then proceded to talk for the whole 8 months she was there about babies.  She'd sit and rub her tummy and make sickening, pathetic noises and all I wanted to do was punch her.  I know I sound horrible, but the amount of hatred I felt towards her was immense.  I suffered panic attacks and I even thought I'd lost my mind one day at work when my vision started to go and it was her that had to help me out of the office into the fresh air.  My boss knew and offered to move me but it would have been so obvious and I didn't want everyone at work knowing.  I was in a very bad place and extremely glad when she went.  I sent her a congratulations on ** when it was born and that was the last communication I had with her until after her son's first birthday about 2 months ago.  She met me and didn't utter his name until I asked about him, when she gave me the smallest amount of information she could.  I realised that she was very aware of how hideous I felt and I apologised to her for the year of no communication and said all I could say was that to see her get what I couldn't have was more than I could take.  She was as sweet as she ever was and we are now talking again.

So don't think you are alone.  I hate everyone who is pregnant or has children and that's a lot of people to hate!  All I can say is do whatever you have to do to make yourself feel comfortable and calm.  Panic is a horrible thing because you are not in control of it.  I considered giving up my job but I stuck it out and in the long run, that was a good thing.  I don't know if you can talk to your friend and tell her just how hideous this is for you and that it's not personal?  

Hang in there, I can offer no words of wisdom because I am in my own hell at the moment too.  All I can say is that keeping on talking and hearing other people's stories really helps.  Sending you lots of


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## 2Buttons (Jul 11, 2012)

Hello empty dreams, I hope u change your name soon, it is so sad but I guess reflects how u r feeling right now and it's ok to be honest about ur feelings. 

I wanted to say that counselling is the best way to develop coping mechanisms for such situations, personalised tools that will work best for you, most clinics have some free access but if not, you'd only need a few sessions and I think it'd be great for u to have a safe place to really let go of those pent up, negative emotions.

Whenever I've caught myself thinking uncharitable thoughts about a pregnant lady, I've also reminded myself of how bad I would feel if they miscarried that child and I find that guilty shameful feeling cancels out the angry one, almost immediately. Then I'm quite capable of genuinely participating in their celebration and baby talk.

I hope u find a good way to work through these difficult emotions. Good luck      Ps as a last resort remember that at worst it'll be 9mths and then she'll probably disappear for a year


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## 2Buttons (Jul 11, 2012)

JulietP just wanted to say so sorry for your lost blasts


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Thank you 2Buttons - it's so hard isn't it? xxxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi Juliet p and 2 buttons ☺☺I took a bit of a break from page and only saw ur posts today,I feel 100% the same as you julietp, you are so right its hard work hating so many people esp as I was and I bet you were pretty happy people before this torture enveloped us 😢 I don't want to spend my life hiding from pregnancy as it is an unavoidable element of life and im sick of letting it tear me apart over and over, why can't we be the ladies with pretty bumps that turn into pretty babies in pretty buggies 😢😢😢😢 I so identify with work setup it just sucks  😠😬😬😬 and I feel trapped , god the belly rubbing and pathetic noises drive me crazy too , the girl I work it behaves like she has a terminal illness and her laziness is instant the min she found out ! Why us ?? I did try counselling 2 buttons and I felt better but only short term, she only reiterated what I already knew that this is a grieving process


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Thanks to much to both of ye and wishing u both happiness ☺☺☺


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey ED, how are you doing?  I've had two weeks off work and feel a lot calmer.  Going back to work was not nice - last time I was there I was in a bit of a state, so all the memories stopped me sleeping last night.  However it wasn't nearly as bad as I expected.  

We had a sort of final consultation last week just to confirm that it was the male factor that lost us our embies.  We may have one of our final two vials tested, just for that peace of mind I guess, but we're waiting to see if it is possible to be done on such a small sample.  I desperately want the test to come back positive and for the issue to be our donor not DH, but we know really it'll be him.  I'm feeling calm but only because 1% of me is still hopeful for a miracle.  

Just thought I'd check in on you in case you needed any support.


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi Juliet P  how are things with you ? Have u got ur results back yet ? Hope u got some form of good news 
Having time off work is so good for us I def think it allows us to pick ourselves up again and try afresh to keep trudging through it. The girl I work with is now beginning to show and if im honest I do almost hate her somedays, she is not as bad as her previous pregnancies but the odd belly rub r baby talk still feels like a punch in the stomach to me, I find myself running from scenarios where shes sharing her news and my days off are good but seeing her opens up fresh wounds all day, I feel terribly uncomfortable around her whereas she would of  been one of my best friends, I think its a juggling act that never ends and pretty much tears you asunder, I try hard to be positive for all the other gifts I have in my life but its so hard, if you v time let me know how things are with you,
Best wishes 
Maria


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey ED, it's been a while since I've been on and just seen your post.

I think sometimes you have to let people go.  I have a friend who I've known since I was 11 and she's travelled all over the world.  Her home is in Portugal but she's been in Australia for years, and at the age of 40 'decided' to have kids.  Which she did.  She has two lovely little things, that I've never met.  She came back to England last year and I've seen her twice, without her children.  I have had to tell her that much as I love her, I just can't cope with seeing her as a family as I would probably cry and she has been ever so understanding.  I am so grateful to her for that and know that one day, when they are in their teens, I won't mind to much and will be able to see her more.  Sometimes you just have to tell people and let them deal with their emotions, yours are more important.

I am still in limbo.  Our tests haven't been done and we have seen our counsellor once.  She's a lovely lady and both DH and I enjoyed talking to her.  But we are essentially at a stale mate.  He can't get his head round embryo donation (and I'm not sure I can, but my desire for a baby is greater) and I try not to push him but still get so emotional.  I had to leave the supermarket yesterday as I spotted the most adorable baby twins and I just couldn't cope.

Anyway.....just look after yourself.  Your grief is more important than someone's happiness about having a baby.  You shouldn't have to try to be happy for them, they should be understanding to you.  

xxxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi Juliet☺
I think sometimes men and women's outlooks on all of this are so different, we just seem utterly consumed by the grief and men as sad as it is sometimes seem to adjust and adapt much better , kieran my husband loves cycling and he always manages to keep motivated etc whereas as you said our desire for a baby is overwhelming 😢
God I know what you mean about seeing babies and the crippling anger /heartbreak and the awful unfairness of it all.
Im beginning to change so much as a person but I think people in our situation almost cant avoid it, I get so angry over silly things and once I take a step back I realise its all stemming from this, life is a journey and its like we are stuck on an awful roundabout that we cant get off.
The sad thing is I know even by reading your messages what a wonderful mom you would be and yet every month its taken from us. 
Its really important to be positive etc but by god its hard , the girl I work with is getting bigger by the day and to be true to myself I never discuss pregnancy or babies with her but im constantly jealous of her and baffled by how she makes it look like a walk in the park !!!!
I hope so much you reach a resolution with your partner about your next step and I feel every bit of your frustration and hurt 😢😢
Im trying hard to see the benefits of childless living and focus on that but its like walking on eggshells.
Keep me posted on how you are doing and from the bottom of my heart I hope your dreams come through 💗💗💗


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey Maria, I've come back on here again!!  Having a bad evening so I thought I'd see what's been going on.

We have been told today that this test we were pinning our hopes on would achieve nothing.  We would have to send our two last remaining vials out to Ireland which effectively would mean even if the test came back positive, we would have nothing to use if we wanted to try again!!  It's ridiculous.  It's taken this long just to get an answer.  Our clinic is just rubbish if you're not paying them thousands of pounds, and once again we feel like we're being fobbed off.  Our consultant said this test would show us if the sperm are genetically unsound.  DH read up about it and all it would achieve is to tell us if we need to use ICSI, which we've done 3 times anyway.  It took the embryologist in a phone call today to admit this, as our consultant couldn't even tell us this simple fact.  So we've been waiting, hoping this place in Ireland can find out the reason for our failure, when in fact it can do no such thing.

It's just another set back, another night of tears and I'm so tired of it all.  Our only hope of children is embryo donation and tonight I made DH talk about it, rather than brush it under the carpet and his bottom line is he simply can't get his head around it.  I can't force him.  So I have to contact my clinic and take my name off the donation list.  So that really is it for me.  I am cross with him, cross with the clinic and just about cross with everything.  

And I know it's not just me.....we are all going through something aren't we?  How are you?  What's happening with your treatment - are you planning anything more?  I met a couple this last weekend at a wedding reception - a most bizarre place to start talking IVF, but they had had 5 rounds and she'd lost one at 9 weeks.  They were about my age, mid 40's and just tired and devastated.  I've never been so pleased to meet people in my whole life.  Finally I didn't feel like the only failure in the room.  Awful, but I felt so much better knowing it wasn't only me.  

That's what's going to help us move on one day.  Knowing other people who feel the same.
xxxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey Juliet,
I'm really sorry to hear what happened  with your tests  I really feel  that the clinics  definitely  aren't  as on our side as they would like you to think,they are more interested in lining their own pockets.
It's maddening that they profit from our misfortune!! Thousands spent trying to desperately clamber  back some sense of control over our lives, and what they don't  tell you is the cold harsh chances of failure far surpass  any chances of success.
We pin all our hopes on the constantly  moving goals they set and play our part over and over only to still end up heartbroken.
You must be so  angry and so hurt right now, it's like no one in the world understands and you can't  even grieve properly as it's just expected that we should pick up the pieces and keep going.
How are you feeling about your partners issues with embryo donation?I think  we all have an emotional stopping  point but for women I do think our desire will push us much further, men definitely  have more hold ups with the genetics side of things, in my case kieran is fine it's me who doesn't  have any eggs so I'm  the broken one in our story, the anger is getting  worse daily and I wonder if it will ever get easier,I haven't done egg donation yet but after failing ivf I'm so reluctant  to fail again and I don't know if I could endure that another time.
I'm almost  so bitter iv stoped believing  that IL ever have a baby,I think you need to know when to walk away and stop being consumed  by it but that reprive  is always so short lived and before you know it your back crying for the baby  you so  desperately  want.
Why this happens to us I don't  know,but I do know that it changes us so much in a way that nobody can understand  until they can lived it,a positive  frame of mind is so important  in life but I think it's pretty impossible  to maintain  on this journey,I'm so angry it's impossible  to control at times.
I started jogging recently and I feel that I can at least  force myself to run and unlike  the uncontrollable  unfairness of periods every month I can at least in one area make my body  do something  right for once.
I wish I had some words to offer you comfort  or solace right now but all I have is the  same empty pain in my heart what  we do have though is strength  and  endurance  and whatever our final outcome is at least we faced it and tried our hardest.
I'm always here if you need to talk and your not alone  it takes a very special  type of person to weather this storm  and get back up every day just to keep going,I just wish it wasn't us 
Your not alone Juliet im always here if you need to talk,to cry or just to vent,thinking of you,
Maria xxxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

You know you're right about women pushing a bit further.  When we started we always said we wouldn't go for egg or sperm donation.  But when the time came I found I hadn't got an option not to accept an egg donor.  It felt weird to start with but once I had been told a donor had been found and she'd written a lovely introduction to herself, it felt so right.  DH managed to just get his head round that, but just feels he can't with something that will be totally unrelated to him.  I do understand, we all have that cut off, it's just so hard when someone else's decision is affecting you.

I admire your get up and go.  I think about getting my life in order, getting fit and concentrating on something positive, but I can't quite see the point yet.  I just don't want to do anything or go anywhere.  I also know how you feel about simply not wanting to have the disappointment of another try not working.  It's the most exhausting thing we go through - there's so much hope whilst you're going through treatment and then such an enormous void when it doesn't work.  I was so surprised when it didn't work first time.  I truly thought I'd be one of the lucky ones!  I have turned bitter and angry too.  Tonight I am supposed to be at puppy training classes.  Our 15 week old German Shepherd had been a lovely distraction, but he was a terror tonight and I simply couldn't cope with it.  I feel ridiculous that I let a badly behaved puppy ruin my evening, but it was the last straw.  So DH went on his own and I'm sitting here in the quiet, just contemplating how my life would have been if I'd been lucky and the IVF had worked.

How does Kieran feel about you trying again?  For us, it's always been me pushing for this and I've never felt DH wanted it enough.  I realise he's 10 years older than me, so he's thinking about winding down, retirement, relaxation....but I'm not even close to that!

And how are you at work?  Has it got any easier with that friend of yours?  I hope you're managing to ignore her, or stay out of her way.  It's just awful to have it right under your nose.


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi Juliet 
I have to say reading your messages is so refreshing for me as finally there is someone who gets it and who just knows ! What you said about expecting it to work first time is literally how I felt .....looking back I was almost obnoxiously confident that it would,I even remember saying ok I'm a person that if I want something il get it so that's why I've to have ivf it's just like buying a baby and I even convinced myself that it was better than leaving nature do it haha as if project management was a desirable angle to add to becoming pregnant !!! God I was deluded 
Trust me my get up and go is nothing special at all I feel just like you I hate going anywhere that I can't completely ensure that their wont be babies or bumps !!! Their everywhere though !! Michelle in work in driving me nuts ..... To go from being one of my best friends to someone who tears me apart by simply being around me is just crazy ! She is really showing and its such a constant trigger ! Customers and other staff members are all fussing about her and I want to almost slap her !!!!! What am I turning into,she has the most beautiful daughter and son already to top it off,it's the little girl that tears me up that was always my dream but life had other ideas !! I don't acknowledge the pregnancy at all as I told her I had to do it that way to survive but it's getting so awkward ,she acts like she's terminally ill then to top it off ! The only joy I get is her whinging about her bladder being slightly compromised haha ! I take a moments joy as her misfortune over this ! Yes it's wrong but I don't care she can't have it all lol !!!
I'm laughing over your puppy !They are a tremendous medicine in a way but I know on a bad day nothing helps and gs are a full on breed so beautiful but so high energy  I think they give us something to nurture in a way I always pull out of stuff and make Kieran go alone so don't feel bad we need to do this sometimes and saying no is healing ,I'm totally ducking another pregnant friend and as a result that particular circle of friends too but I need to do it this way
Kieran has totally taken his foot off the pedal with egg donation at the moment he's a carpenter so he wants us to move home and he's totally absorded in drawing up plans I've no real interest but I play along !i feel if we do sell our house and move our savings will def disappear and along with them my egg donation option but to be honest I'm terrified of trying.
I can totally see how your husband is prob looking to enjoy the more chilled side of life ... The puppy is prob high maintenance enough but you are not ready to give up and to be honest we both will prob never be. I wish it wasn't all so hard maybe in time he may see you need to keep trying. For me  genetics aren't so important I just want a baby but your relationship is based on 2 people and men are hard enough to motivate even when they are on the same page let alone when their not. Also this whole thing is hard enough to drag ourselves through let alone them !!!
We are in very similar situations different in ways but like we are in the same state of limbo 
It's good that we can talk though and you made me laugh tonight with your puppy story !!!
What are we like lol 
Talk soon
Maria xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey MM,
You are more than welcome to join in  I think the more open and honest we can be the better it is and nobody will understand more so than a person who is living it  .Your so not alone iv wanted to walk out of work so many days but for now I'm just about hanging in there but anyone making a fuss of my colleagues pregnancy really makes me fall apart like I want to run away  I'm kind of channelling this into a battle with myself to not show her how its affecting me, I really do believe the ability to conceive does not make someone a better person so I try to overcome her smugness as best I can, tbh her husband is worse !!
Im sorry to hear you have relationship problems too but this journey tests the best of relationships, you need support though and it sounds like your partner could of been a bit kinder to you. I find men are just crappy at conveying their understanding at times. A lot of it comes down to mens outlooks  they feel the need to fix things whereas we just need understanding and empathy .
If you ever need to chat just pop on here !
At least we can be truly honest on this forum 
Tlk soon
Maria xx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hello both!  Do you know, I have several links one here and I think this is the only one where we're not talking about treatment, we're just having a jolly good moan.  It's so refreshing!!!  I wanted to start a blog but the rules say you can only have it for as long as you are having treatment, and for me that's not going to happen again!  

Anyway, welcome MM, the more who join in the better.  I'm sorry you are having such a hard time, at home and at work.  It is eternally impossible to make anyone understand how utterly devastating every minute of every day truly is when you feel bereavement like this.  It just doesn't get easier.  Everything is symbolic - it doesn't have to be hideous pregnant women, it can be an advert on tv where there's a family.  I am sorry about your DH.  As Maria has said, they are just not the same as us.  I recently met a lovely couple at a wedding and we just happened to discover we had all been through IVF.  I was sitting next to the husband and he proudly told me he had been strong and matter of fact about their failures as he felt this was really supporting his wife.  I smiled and I said that my husband too had been strong.  But silent.  He got on with his life and I felt like we were as far apart as we could be.  For me, I wanted my husband to cry, mourn and to keep searching for answers.  He just did it in his own way.

We are now sending a letter to our clinic.  We are STILL waiting the answer to a simple question.  Is it true that sending our sperm off to Ireland will result in nothing more than the advice to do ICSI, which we've already done 3 times.  It is now two weeks since the clinic embryologist called us and expressed surprise that our consultant had told us to do this.  So she said she'd get him to call.  TWO WEEKS.  Our letter will spell the end of our relationship with that clinic, the nurses were lovely and kind, and even our consultant was a nice man.  But he lied too many times to us. 

To top it all off, we just lost our old German Shepherd.  We'd had her as a rescue and she was my life.  On Tuesday we called the vet as we knew it was time and she died in DH's arms in the garden in the sunshine.  One of her favourite places.  We will scatter her ashes in the sea as water was more important than anything to her.  I said to my husband, this wouldn't happen to a child.  My dogs are my children, and now I have to go through this in another 10 years when our pup is old.  Terrible to think like that, but doom is my norm.

Thank you for the moan ladies and keep at it because it really does feel good to share and know that we all feel the same.  Maybe the weekend will bring something good for us all.

xxxx


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## Handstitchedmum (Mar 24, 2013)

JulietP said:


> I wanted to start a blog but the rules say you can only have it for as long as you are having treatment, and for me that's not going to happen again!


I will look into that for you Juliet.


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey Juliet,
Im really so sorry about your dog, I started crying the minute I read it as god I know too well how they really do become our babies,  I just know he had a fantastic life with you and he's smiling down on his mommy tonight xxxx
Your right its cruel how short their lives are especially as we need them so desperately  
Reading how you explained that almost anything can be a trigger was therapeutic !!! I used to think I was so over sensitive but your right everything and anything is so symbolic !!
I went on lunch today with my pregnant colleague and a guy from work, he's a real dote and knows my story so he always almost minds me in a way ...god love him working with a pregnant moan and an infertile crybaby haha , but anyway she sat with a face on her the whole time whinging and looking like an awkward overweight seal !! I felt like saying HELLO im meant to be the miserable one not you !!! Her soup had too much basil ....the horror of it ! Lol so today I decided maybe boring annoying people get pregnant really easy as its all they have whereas im meant for other things (god knows what though ) like buying stuff I don't need but that act as distractions.
Im sorry again Juliet I really am...all you can do is cry as grief needs to be let out
I hope ye all have a lovely weekend too xx tmr when we can have lie ins and lazily sip coffee I hope all the annoying baby factory women are up at the dawn and covered in puke !!! Ohhh im very bitter today 😅😅😅 
Goodnight guys xxxx
Thinking of ye all !


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Hi both, thank you for welcoming me. Am a little tired as have been ill all week but DH birthday so had to drag myself out tonight and endure my SD brandishing photos of her and DH at her christening...so you're right about there being triggers everywhere. I told someone in our local tonight about my treatment too. Am getting to the point where I'm thinking to hell with it, I'm hurting and am fed up of keeping quiet just to spare others from feeling uncomfortable! What I really want to say though is my heart goes out to you Juliet. I have a furry baby too, she's 13 now and sometimes when we walk I'm overcome with tears at the thought of something happening to her. She's been by my side through so much and I take for granted that she will continue to be  I feel for you so much and can only begin to imagine your pain. Just wanted to send you love at such a painful time.    xx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Good morning both, thank you so much for you kind words.  It's been just over a week now and whilst we still miss her terribly, things are getting there.  

It has set me back a bit on the baby issue but rather than being teary I'm getting more angry.  Also the panic has come back just a little....that awful thought that I'm going to be on my own with no-one to turn to when I'm old and grey.  I keep trying to 'live in the moment' as my IVF counsellor suggested, but that's very difficult.

Miss Mayhem, it must be so hard to have to live life with children under your nose.  I find that I find fault in everyone's children and wonder how they can like them let alone love them!!  That must be another part of the process we go through.  Desperate longing turning into total intolerance!  I used to look at my beautiful, smelly old dog and think how much nicer she was than the screaming brats I kept running into!!  All you can do is love your furry baby as much as you can and feed her all the things she's not allowed!  Ours was on all sorts of medication for pancreatitis and not allowed fatty food, but by the end we made sure she'd tasted something of everything.  

Maria, at least you have someone nice at work!  How you manage to socialise with that woman I don't know.  I'm angry for you just thinking about her!  So utterly selfish.  These people don't deserve all the things we want and I can only hope the basil gave her indigestion!!  

Hanstitchedmum - thank you for looking into the blogs.  I understand that space is needed on the website, but as you can see, some of us need to have a good old moan in the absence of people to talk to, especially when the hope of more treatment is practically zero. 

So another weekend looms and I am off to see my parents.  I hope you have a lovely one and avoid all hideous women with babies.  May they get no sleep and feel haggered and exhausted!!  
xxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys 😢
Just need to write as today was a bad day for me. I just woke  up today so sad  Normally something triggers me and iv been really good lately but today it all fell apart , I really wonder is a lot of it down to hormones ,today was just the pits 😢😢 It started like every day in work with her and her bump and Juliet your so right I hate other children none of them would of compared to mine, all brats selfish ignorant ill mannered pups, they irritate me so much, I detest looking at baby photos and videos and long to scream and tell them that they have ugly kids !!!!
Anyway today is one customer after the next commenting on michelles pregnancy and then even my mother in law who knows everything asks me "oh is michelle pregnant ?? When is she due ?? How about you Maria ?? Any news ?"what in the name of god was she thinking !!!! I broke down at the counter in work with the pharmacy full of stupid customers looking at me !!!!I spend the next half hour balling my eyes out and trying to compose myself....only for little miss bump to ask me if im ok !!!!!! No no no im not ok how could I possibly be ok 😠😠😠😠
Then the other lady in works goes to hug me and I fall apart and try hide before my boss sees me.
Then michelles horrible in law's call and iv a sneaking suspicion they know my situation but yet they make big deal about her pregnancy !! Even though they see her everyday ! I suspect michelles husband knows how tense work is and has just decided im a jealous b****  and thats why the inlaws made such a show, he def hates me because I just cant be a part of this pregnancy .
Right now im meant to pack for a weekend away but instead im so so angry and sad, my temper is beginning to scare me I was never like this.....what is happening to me 😢😢😢 im sorry about the typos I just don't care tonight, 
Hope your weekends  go better I just needed to rant 😢


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Oh Maria, I'm so so sorry, what a horrible day for you.  You sound way too close to this girl, her husband, her family - you need some time away from her.  I too am feeling ever so low this evening so I'm with you on the tears.  Some days just feel so flipping empty and pointless.  She is the most selfish person to not see how every day is awful for you.  I think people expect you to say how miserable you are, then get over it.  People constantly look at me with a mixture of surprise and boredom when I say I'm still mourning my lost babies, and now I'm mourning my lost dog (who I've just had a bawl over because I miss her so much).  Someone actually said to me 'but that was over a week ago now wasn't it, why don't you think about getting another one'?  I simply MUST remember to ask them to get a new mother or father or whatever and whoever it is they lose next.  Stupid, ignorant, awful people.

You are what matters.  Nothing and no-one else.  If you don't feel like your weekend away, then you don't go.  Stay at home, cry, eat chocolate and watch hideous girlie movies.  Or shooting gangster movies to help with your anger!  Either way, it's about you and no-one else.  Only when you are ready will you do what other people think you should be doing, and you know, I don't think any of us will be 'us' ever again.  I used to be happy, fun, outgoing and always forward looking.  I am now miserable, bitter and actually quite boring.  Not to mention fat and puffy faced most of the time!!!  

Your temper is entirely understandable.  I try to warn people that today I shall be an absolute cow, so stay away or be prepared.  I've warned them, then it's up to them to deal with me however they wish.  It's ever so difficult to tell people how you feel as most people lead happy, plain, boring lives.  It's only when they grow older, start living and losing that anyone will understand you.  I wish I had grandparents still alive.  I miss the wonderful wisdom and experience they bring, with all their heartache they've lived through.  We need to search out some people who've lived proper lives and surround ourselves with them.  

Anyway, I am with you all the way tonight.  And I shall be thinking of you this weekend.  I won't have access to a computer at my parents, but I'll come back here when I return.  Just remember, it's about you.


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Thanks so much Juliet ☺☺anytime I read your emails I must look like a right eejit because I literally nod my head the whole way through, its like you have lived every tear and every heartbreak, this grief is so debilitating and so raw every month but reading your words instantly makes me feel so much better and not so alone and empty . I'm so sorry that someone said that to you about it being a week .....how long do they allow for grief ?? I think our dogs are our babies and the world sometimes doesn't even let us have that 😢😢 My two are downstairs now and honestly the day they pass I shudder to think what way I will react, they are my whole life 😢 I wish your poor baby didn't have to die esp as your going through enough right now. I think grief and things going wrong hits us harder as we don't have the miracles others do to make the glass half full at times. 
How is your puppy coming along? Somedays it probably takes all your energy to keep up with him 😅😅 they are rogues !! I'm bringing my 2 a shih tzu and a pekingese to Galway with me for the weekend, I definitely think they fill a void and maybe in a way I'm just filling the back seat of the car with little furry babies lol !!
Who knows what way our brains are processing stuff anymore !!
I want to thank you for your kind email iv actually calmed down since reading it , I hope you've a wonderful weekend and that your parents are well and you know at least we can talk here as no one else  understands !! Iv roared at poor kieran over everything since I got home and he has offered me a pizza and wine in hope of cheering me up !! He asked me earlier to please not let this ruin the weekend so I'm going to try be positive( try) lol !!!
Have you made any more progress with whether the extra test would be beneficial? 
Anyhow enjoy the weekend and tlk once your back.....enjoy the break from technology too sometimes our poor brains need that ☺☺😅😅😅


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

I forgot to say the gangster movie reference was fantastic and a well needed laugh 😅😅😅😅 we have gone from the world is full of fluffy bunnies to guys from the Godfather !!! Ah well 😅😅😅😅


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Morning, I thought I'd check in on you!  I'm glad I helped a little and I'm glad Kieran was kind to you.  I hope you do manage to have a good weekend with your two fur babies.  They can be such a calming influence.  Mine is just lovely.  He absolutely loves us to death and wants to be touched ALL the time.  He's a joy to wake up to and I look forward to coming home to him.  We still have a lot of training to do as he'll bite anything at any time, but his sheer joy at being with us just makes everything worthwhile.

We have not heard a thing from our clinic and DH has drafted a letter that we haven't quite sent yet.  It just tells them of our disappointment at the way we've been treated, lied to and let go the minute we're not paying thousands of pounds.  I can't believe we are still waiting for an answer from our consultant.  It must be 3 weeks since we spoke to the embryologist.  It's just apalling to treat us like that.  I know we will never go back for treatment or help there, so I think the sooner we send it the better.  I just can't quite see that as the end of everything and want a second opinion.  Just someone to go through our notes and tell us why this happened and why our samples are no good.  I think I need closure, because this clinic we are at have not given us that.

Anyway, you have a relaxing weekend and if you're feeling sad and angry, know that I will be at some stage too.  It comes in waves, so maybe time away from home will give you some 'up' time.

Speak soon! xxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Good morning Juliet ☺
You are very right about the waves of emotion, it really does just come out of nowhere and totally consumes us. I feel our day to day lives sound so similar, the one thing that makes me smile in the mornings is the two little cuties and as you said their love is so important. Coming home to see them keeps me sane after crappy days 😢.
I'm really appalled by how your clinic has treated you, I think a lot of clinics seem to have no specific sensitivity and in their line of work it should be paramount. They greedily take our hard earned cash only to toss you aside afterwards. 
I sometimes wish we could lift the lid on these clinics and so many other issues with infertility. I believe they get away with a lot because of the whole taboo.
I think it needs to be recognised as a credible illness and all people should receive a few cycles of varying treatments for free , we pay enough tax! I also feel that their should be infertility leave which in genuine cases people suffering get recognised paid leave from work. I've often felt like starting a blog or campaiging in some way but then I just leave it go as I try to distract myself.
You definitely need answers in a clear and concise way , its the very least you deserve 😢 I think you should send your letter as its not an end for you but just an end with that clinic which is realistically a good choice by the sounds of them.
You should definetly start a blog Juliet you write fantastically and you could help so many others too. I just don't know how one would even go about it really?  
I'd better get packing , kieran is off out cycling and we are heading away then so id better get motivated 😅.
I will be thinking of you too over the weekend...lets hope we both and everyone else in our shoes gets a well needed break xxx


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## pixie1230 (Aug 30, 2014)

Hi empty dreams,

    I am feeling down for almost a month now. Been seeing statuses on ** about pregnancy, and seeing my friends kids breaks my heart that why on earth can I not be a mom? Why do I have to go through all this? What did i do to deserve this?  I dont feel like going out, i stopped going to the gym, i just want to be alone most of the time. I think I am in the lowest point of my life.  During our bedtalk last night of my DH, i asked him how can he be so strong going through all this? That i never saw him frustrated or sad.  It seems like he doesnt care if were going to have a kid or not. He told me, life will not end if we are not going to have a baby. But i feel the other way around. I also told him that I am sorry that I am the one who is infertile and I feel sad because he is okay. If he marry a healthy woman maybe he has a kid by now. I feel sad knowing i affected his life because of me. But he keeps on insisting that he didnt marry me because he wants kids. He marry me because he loves me. And i am blessed for havinG him in my life. For being the most loving and responsible man i know. Some people gets a chance to be parents but some of them turned out to be the irresponsible ones. Guess you wont get the best of both worlds sometimes. I am in the process of my ivf but it always gets push back due to so many complications which i dont want to discuss. And i am feeling that It wont be successful at all. Just being a pessimist now so i wont get hurt in the end. Sorry about my rant


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## Scorpy (Oct 2, 2014)

Hi Pixie1230 & Emptydreams... I feel for you guys, I completely understand. Ive put some posts on here about the bitterness and anger I'm feeling recently being around pregnant women or seeing children in public. 
And like you say Pixie at first I did keep going over how if my husband was with any other woman he could have a baby instantly and feeling guilt that I was denying him that, how I thought people would feel I was literally useless as a woman.

Apologies I havent read all the posts on this thread but have either of you had counselling or any offer of support? Has a Dr assessed your mental health etc?
Have you thought of being signed off work for a little while? Im signed off at the moment and it has helped, granted its probably not great to lock yourself away from the world but for me its a way to escape and not feel so anxious all of the time...


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## pixie1230 (Aug 30, 2014)

Hi scorpy, 

    Thanks for that! I never went counselling. I am even afraid of talking about my feelings with the clinic I am in for IVF treatment at the moment, as they might think I am questioning their judgement. I didnt go to college this year as I know full time in the university and doing the IVF at the same time will conflict each other. As i want to be stress free and always available 24/7 for my treatment. . I am currently looking for a part time job just to get out and make my head busy and not think and think about my misery everyday. I am becoming obsess with my sickness(endemtriosis and tubal blockage) that i keep on googling stuff online about it and ivf, that it makes me paranoid that this treatment will never work. Its like going to war without armor at all. My heart is dying inside everyday. Me and hubby talked about adopting someone abroad. But we will still wait for our treatment if its going to be successful or not. All i want is to have a kid. To see my childs face looking like me and dh, want to experience sending my kid to school, teaching him with his homeworks, cooking for him, buying clothes and toys for him, and someone who will call me mommy and will love us unconditionally. I dont know why is it so hard. I thought I accepted it years ago, but still not. It just keeps on coming back


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## Scorpy (Oct 2, 2014)

There definitely needs to be some more support for people, esp going through IVF - I actually think the term is used so flippantly in conversation that people aren't really understanding/thinking what it is exactly people go through physically and emotionally. I only recently have looked into whats involved and can't imagine how stressful and agonising going through that would be, I never had a clue..

I would hope workplaces etc would be supportive enough to those going through this kind of treatment, sometimes time off and away from the daily grind is whats needed, people can only cope with so much..so its probably good that your not in full time uni at the moment, but obviously don't let this spare time drag you down.
My way of dealing with it these last few days is to bury my head in the sand somewhat, try not to think, avoid certain situations, try do something that makes you feel good to distract from 'thinking' etc...counselling does help some people though. Or even meeting up with someone going through the same situation and sharing your experiences, talking really helps get it out there, doesn't necessarily solve it or make it go away but it could help give you some moments of peace and hope? 

My friend has the same (Endemtriosis/Tubal blockage) don't feel alone, your being proactive and are just at the start of your journey so please don't give up hope, even if its only a little bit of hope focus on that and be determined that it will work!   I motivate myself to be like this at the start of every month...and obviously as the month goes by I get more and more down, but as long as I try pick myself up for the next month you can keep going for a fresh month of determination.


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey Pixie1230 ☺☺
I'm so sorry all this is happening to you😢 Just like you I'm the broken one  and my partner is perfectly fertile !!! So I feel the same like I'm denying him a baby. It makes me hate other women a lot......I used to be so confident and content now I'm a minefield of emotions, mostly hurt and anger. 
My partner is the same he doesn't seem that affected , yes he is sad but not sad as I know it.😢😢
He has never cried and still seems happy other than when I'm having meltdowns !!
Don't give up hope about your upcoming ivf, a positive mindset is really important so please give it your all, if you look back you will know you gave everything , mine didn't work but I know of so many it did work for ☺☺☺
Always here if you need to chat, its a hard lonely road but I feel people on here especially one lady Juliet on here really gets it and it helps to talk to her so much .
Thinking of you and your not alone 
☺☺☺


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## pixie1230 (Aug 30, 2014)

You are right scorpy. Thanks for those lovely advice. You just need to be strong to get through this, though somedays it can be tough. But no one will help us but ourselves.  Ill try to get out there and do something just to get my mind out of it for awhile. Hopefully I can go back to my workout routine.as it will help with my blood circulation and stress. I am glad that you are able to fight this. And knowing that you are not alone is a big thing. Everyone has struggles, and this is ours. Just different situations. Maybe if life is perfect it can be boring as well if everything is just going to be handed to you in a snap. No thrills huh?! Lol) 
But yeah thanks so much for those words. I know I am not the only one experiencing this, some might be worst than us.  So ill try to fight and see that little hope.


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey Scorpy ☺
Thanks for your reply, we are all stuck in this mess 😢😢. I did do counselling and the councillor basically told me I was doing very well !!! That this is grief, continuous and fresh grief and that it was unfortunate that I had so many insensitive pregnant people around me .....I knew this but it was nice to hear my feelings were normal. 
Its just horrible but I know its important to remain upbeat ☺☺
We all have each other to chat too thank god !!
Tlk soon ☺☺☺
Maria


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hello all, Scorpy and Pixie, it's good to have you on this chat.

Hi Maria, how was your weekend?  Did you manage to enjoy and relax?  Mine was ok...nice to be away but I was very low on Saturday night - I think it was a sherry too many and a sympathetic mother, makes me crumble every time!

Scorpy and Pixie, I'm so sorry you are both going through a horrible time.  As you can see, so many of us are.  I saw my clinic counsellor about 3 times and she was a lovely woman.  I could have talked to her forever.  But there's always something missing.  There's that empathy of having gone through the heartache that makes the hour I have spent talking to her just not quite satisfactory.  I am someone who desperately needs others who are the same as me and that helps with the lonely feeling.  I also think that there is too much emphasis on anonymity.  I agree, if you are in a position of donating or receiving, of course there should be limits on sharing information.  But when I was going through my IVF (and it was only in June my last one) I was desperate to talk to other ladies like me.  Anyone.  I mentioned this to my clinic, that if anyone wanted to talk to someone face to face over a coffee, or something stronger (!) then my details were available.  I even asked if they would set up a group, or a time when we could all get together, even if it was just two of us, I desperately didn't want this to be a secret any more.  All my appointments were hush hush, we didn't tell our friends, it's the most awful, scary, lonely place to be in and I would sit and howl about how I was the only one in the whole world who was never going to have a baby.

So.....I would say tell as many people as you can.  There are some lovely people out there and not necessarily those who are going through what we are, but you may be surprised to find that someone you tell really is going through it.  I chanced it at a wedding recently (Maria, sorry if I'm repeating!!) and the man sitting next to me had been through the same.  Only his poor wife had miscarried.  I've never even been pregnant.  A lady I bumped into whilst walking my dogs and who I had dismissed as 'happy, with a child in a pushchair, a dog by her side and a lovely husband', turned out to be living on her own.  Her husband had left her before the baby had been born, the man I had seen her with was a friend and her dog belonged to an ex!!!  I have been hating her from afar for quite some weeks (as I do most women with a pushchair) and I stopped and realised that I am not the only one suffering.  I told her immediately about my plight and she was just lovely.  

I find that the best therapy is to remember, you are the most important person when you are going through bereavement like this.  No-one else comes above you.  I would meet anyone and everyone if they lived near me (I'm in Kent so PM me if you like!) and talking is just the best thing you can do.  Hiding too.  That worked for me for a few months.  I sat on the sofa nursing pulsatile tinnitus - a horrible, debilitating pounding in my ears which no specialist could help me with.  It took one person to realise I was stressed because of being told it wasn't even worth trying for IVF for me to start believing I could be helped.  I was on sleeping pills, they tried me on anti-depressants, and I truly felt I would actually go mad.  So, hide if you want.  Cry.  Eat....whatever you want to do in that moment.  The worst thing you can do is to try and get over it.  Why should we?  We are going through a constant bereavement.

The guilt that you are the 'faulty' one just adds to all of this and is perfectly natural.  However, that is a choice your other halves make and they sound like they are with you because they love you.  In the end, we really do choose someone because of who they are not because of what they give us, and this is just one of those trials that we get through.  Men will more than often be silent and 'strong'.  No matter how much I tell mine that I'm hurting more than him, I'm not so sure I am.  I'm just much more emotional.  He thinks he's being right in not promising me the world.  I want him to reassure me.  He doesn't want to lie.  We are very different, but neither of us is more right than the other.  This is why other ladies going through the same thing are so important.  We can all cry together and go home to a strong man who will hopefully keep the day to day mundane things going.

Anyway, I have talked enough!!  I hope I haven't bored you all.... I can now hear DH cooking supper when it was supposed to be my turn!!!  So he has his uses after all!!

Speak to you soon...

xxxx


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## Saz73 (Nov 13, 2012)

Hi ladies
I've just been reading some of the messages on your thread and have been having a good old wail. It's terribly sad but strangely comforting to see my own feelings reflected back at me in your posts. 

I'm about to start my final ICSI. I don't feel 4th time lucky- I think I've moved a huge step towards it all being over for us in the break between my 3rd and 4th cycles. I've decided to have a final go because there are a few different things that they can do, but I'm starting to feel a bit resentful as I know I'll feel all odd and hormonal again soon and I've been feeling ok recently. (Actually today I've been a bit foul and I don't care!) 

Bye for now x


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey Saz, welcome to our moan....it seems so many of us feel the same.  I wish you all the best of luck with your next ICSI.  This is such a gruelling thing to do - our hopes are raised so much and we allow ourselves excitement and anticipation, only for it not to work, but there is no reason why this might not be the one.  I felt the same in between my second and third.  Relieved that the odd feelings and mood-swings were over, but still knowing there was hope for another go.  I found it quite hard to say yes to the third go - for so many reasons, but a lot because life had gone back to 'normal' again and it seemed such an upheaval to start again.  But we did.  And I would go again and again if I could.  Keep up that hope, there are success stories out there and there's no reason that this shouldn't be your time.  Keep us updated, and feel free to moan away and feel as foul as you like.  

xxx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Hello everyone and    to you all. I too have been reading, and nodding.....and wailing too! Juliet thank you so much for that last but one post. Hiding, crying and not trying to get over it! Thank you. I have done all these and am surviving. I tried not to do them all and that only ended up making things worse. I pushed myself until I snapped.....and then I fell apart. Am still off work now after over two months. I'm not sure if anyone feels the same but I feel happy when I'm cycling, albeit a bit  ! It is the one time I allowed myself hope. It's the devastation that comes afterwards that's the trouble. I too am guilty of totally underestimating the emotional impact of all of this. Just give me the drugs I said to a frustrating and shockingly organised system, I'll be fine then,afterall the clinic's stalling was all that was upsetting me as I, too, naively believed it would work first time for me! My position now is that we took out a loan for treatment...and now I have to spend it on an op. And so the desperate attempt to find solutions...and miracles, continues. When I first joined here someone wished me babydust, and it gave me hope. So babydust to you all xxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Good morning Miss Mayhem.....it's so early and dark this morning....

I feel exactly like you.  When I'm cycling, my life is normal.  I have hope.  It's what you grow up with - the hope that you'll get jobs, meet a partner, have children, go on holidays...and suddenly one of the most important and supposedly easy thing to do doesn't happen and all your hopes come to a grinding halt.  I remember saying to one of my clinic nurses that if I could, I'd come in every day just to be there and talk to them - I'd even work there because it was a place where I was happy and full of hope for the future.  The minute the treatment is over, you lose not only the hope, but the support of some very lovely people, who move on and help the next person.  Suddenly you're just a statistic and not the most important thing in the world.

I'm so sorry you have to use your loan for something else.  It's such a big decision to borrow money, but we will do anything to achieve our goals.  I don't know where some people get their money from to cycle so many times, it seems that when you add up all your treatments, the actual cost should be half what we are charged.

I read about miracles all the time, but sadly mine hasn't happened and it's almost certain it won't.  I read a blog on here from a lovely lady who had so many treatments and came to the end with such a crashing thump, I cried as I read her story.  A couple of months later, I saw her blog had been updated and so I read.  She had conceived naturally and is now on her way to having twins.  These stories are so few and far between and I pray for it to happen to me.  There is hope, but in the meantime we just have to be as kind to ourselves as possible and don't feel that we owe it to make other people happy or comfortable with our situation.  That's their responsibility.


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## Scorpy (Oct 2, 2014)

Hi ladies,
JulietP your posts are so honest and touch on the majority of aspects were all going through ...I agree about the anonomity, I joined a Mental Health support group recently, only to find it was only over the telephone and no one could say their full names, I'm sure this is what some people want to feel anonymous but also there are those that want to meet and 'connect' with people going through similar circumstances etc. 
One of my problems has been people EVEN DR's 'look' at me and actually say _'You don't look like you have such severe symptoms of Depression, your so well put together; your make ups done, your hairs done_' People seem to judge our emotional states by our appearance and how we behave in public!? This is why I think 'Seeing' someone else in similar suffering could help...people won't be walking around the streets in dressing gowns, with dishevelled hair and dribbling, we are just normal everyday people trying to cope.

I think its interesting to think 'back' to when we were younger and try think back to what our views was on fertility then...I certainly NEVER thought I would be a woman whom monitored cycles and put so much pressure on calculating how to have a child, my mother was constantly telling me 'Don't get pregnant you need to live your life first'... then you reach a certain age and ALL the pressure in the world is put on you by everyone 'When are you going to have children?'! 
I was waiting for the 'perfect' time, now I wish I had started this a lot sooner 

As I've mentioned previously, I knew of IVF, you hear the word, I didn't know about any other treatment for infertility I thought that was it! And I never gave a second thought to what was actually involved etc. Which to me, demonstrates that there needs to be more awareness brought to infertility problems etc so people know what were going through.
Its beginning to frustrate me that Ive shared with a few select people at work that I'm having some fertility treatment etc, and they instantly say 'Oh my friend had IVF' ...its incredibly flippant like 'Oh yeah take an aspirin' or 'just go get IVF'.... they may have a friend going through IVF but their probably not with that friend every day or seeing them when their desperately emotional etc..
Maybe one day there will be a nation/worldwide 'Infertility' awareness day and fundraising focus like all the current charity days we see?


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys ☺☺☺☺,
Hey Juliet ☺ ☺☺☺,
Look at our little group ! I'm so happy we are all just being NOT ok !!! I feel much more  upbeat that we are all fighting this together, its the horrible loneliness and shame of it all that kills me, I think the more friends I'm avoiding due to them having babies its making this page even more important. 
Firstly Juliet you are amazing at putting into words how we all feel, you write from your heart and through your tears and thank you for telling us its ok to not be ok at all.
My weekend was really nice but on the drive down kieran let it slip that his best friend already knew our plight but we had not told him ourselves.A close friend I had confided in had told his girlfriend 😠😠😠😠 I'm a really private person so I'm really angry over this.....who else has been told  This was the 2nd time a really close friend betrayed me and told my story. 
As was said above its so bloody flippant. ...its like "oh I know someone who can't have kids !!"
And if for one second they think they understand ohhhh get real !!!
I consciously wouldn't let it ruin the weekend and it worked, we had a really great time ☺☺.I'm not sure how to deal with my friend now but il ponder on it 😐😐
I must agree also with the fact that just because outwardly our hair is done and we are dressed nicely people almost expect us to get on with it. Which is very difficult to do 😢
I wish we all lived nearer and we could do coffee (god we would all be howling in some coffee shop somewhere !!)
Maybe as you suggested something stronger Juliet 😅😅.
Your so lucky your mom is understanding, my mom died when I was 13 but somedays I cry like a baby just to have a hug from her .
Anyhow I'm off to the vet , nothing serious just a weigh in as Piko is a little bit up 😅😅 he loves his food !
I just want to say I love our little group 💗💗💗💗 and maybe we can all help each other.
Tlk soon everyone xxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

I forgot to say I also would definitely be interested in meeting up, I live in Cork Ireland ☺☺
I would consider a trip somewhere that would suit everyone also ☺
We have so many good ideas on here about breaking the stigma attached to infertility and ways to make the journey better that maybe together we could achieve something? 
It would be a positive focus for us all also. Does anyone have any ideas? Maybe set up a group ? I'm sure some of the others on here might have more computer savy suggestions. 
Tlk soon ☺☺☺


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## Scorpy (Oct 2, 2014)

Hey everyone,
Hey Emptydreams - I specifically came on this site to find people struggling to cope in the same way I wasn't, we all deal with things differently but finding other people whom are reacting the same as you is really important, its certainly made me feel better this week! The fact Im crying every time I'm around children/babies I don't even know in the supermarket made me feel like I was loosing it.

Ive just been out for the first time in a while, saw a little girl just wandering around the supermarket, parent no where in sight, I then saw her mother wander round the corner to idly hurry her up... but going through all this has made me realise how precious children are, again we probably even took them for granted, they are everywhere - everyone you know seems to have them and as for me 'waiting' for he perfect time to be pregnant - I was taking it for granted that id be miss fertile! I now think about it and the process of getting pregnant and cannot believe what a miracle it all is?! Its just some people make it look so easy.


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## pixie1230 (Aug 30, 2014)

Hello Ladies,
  
        Thanks for those lovely messages. We have the same sentiments in here. Guess we just need to look at the good things that we have at the moment. I know it is hard, because having children or a child is what we are longing for. When we go outside and see couples with children or even just a person pushing a stroller. We're wishing it was us or wishing we can do it too. 
I was talking to my cousin a while back and she keeps on asking me when I will be pregnant? It's not like she doesn't know my situation and  that we are trying our best. Jeez! Some people are just so inconsiderate of other peoples feelings. Probably its not her intention to make me feel bad. But hey! We need to stop asking those questions.I think it is a bit personal since we dont know what the other person is going through. I was asked loads of times with questions about pregnancy and having a complete family. Mostly from my family and friends, but repeating that same question over and over feels so bad. 
Next time i might answer them that i already had my ovary taken out and my tubes out in a sarcastic tone lol
Btw, if any of you are from Ireland. Want to meet someone from here who has the same situation, I am from longford. 
Anyway, I started my IVF treatment yesterday. Injected the puregon. 150 is my dosage. Just feelin scared about my hydro on my left tube, the doctor said she will just do something about it after egg collection and freeze my eggs in case they see that the hydro on my left tube is leaking(weird) why not do it now? Oh well just going to trust their judgement  with this.
Ladies we can do this!! We need to fight!! Life is tough, everyday is a struggle but there's always a rainbow after the rain
We might not see it now. But I know there's something good that will happen to each and everyone of us. 

P.S.
I love that we have a little friendship going on here. Just makes me happy and positive


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey Scorpy and Pixie ☺☺
I agree we do desperately need people around us that are able to understand and as Juliet put it perfectly, someone who hasn't gone through it just doesn't fully understand and doesn't 100% satisfy our need to know that finally someone gets us .😢
I often do the same Scorpy in supermarkets or various other places I see parents not appreciating their kids , sometimes they look greatly inadequate as parents and this is hard to take. 
I work in a pharmacy so I often see kids that are not cherished the way they should be. ....mostly the parents are really good but now and then I see kids and I know they are somewhat deprived . Even seeing friends of mine making bad parenting decisions is so annoying. Iv one friend who is so boring she never really plays with her daughter and you can see she almost resents her at times. She's not remotely maternal yet she popped a baby out first try 😐😐😐
I'm from Cork Pixie so maybe we could organise something at some stage. We should all book a weekend away and just talk all weekend and maybe we could all gain some new coping mechanisms .
I'm back to work tmr to face my pregnant colleague again. ..the minute I see her I feel ill and because she was a really close friend I can't shut her out . When she speaks I don't even hear the words coming out of her mouth all I see and feel is resentment ,bitterness, anger and hatred 😠😠😠😠
Your right though Pixie we need to fight back a bit but its so hard 
How are you faring with your injections ? You have so much positive energy behind you from us all xxxxx


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## Handstitchedmum (Mar 24, 2013)

Hello 

Please note that the Moving On forum is intended to be a safe haven for people who have been unsuccessful with treatment and who are transitioning to or living a child free life.

As your discussion includes chat about current fertility treatments, I have moved the thread to 'End of the road..or not'. Please do continue to chat freely in this thread/forum, as the guidelines here are much more open! 

You may also find this guideline for meeting up with online buddies useful.


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Morning girls....another dark morning and you've made me smile - Scorpy, sometimes I want to dress up in a dressing gown and dribble around the town, just so people can see how awful I do feel!!  And Maria...I too am enjoying our little group and feeling stronger that we are ALL not ok.  But I also want so send you a huge  .  I'm so sorry about your Mom...  you have so much to contend with, that has to be very hard.   

I have become hugely judgemental towards every parent I see.  It seems that no-one in this world cares for their children like I would.  They're either dressed badly, behaving badly or they look neglected and sad.  It's the sad ones that get me.  I'm sure I could make them happier than their own parents!!

Maria - don't be too upset that someone let slip about your treatment.  For me, it's been DH who has unwittingly told people.  I've been furious with him.  But he needed an outlet too.  Your friend was talking as people do all the time, and whilst they won't have meant to be hurtful, we do feel it is our secret to tell, no-one elses.  It could be a good thing.  Getting this out into the open, telling as many people as you feel comfortable with, or dealing with those who know but don't acknowledge it.  This is not a guilty or shameful secret.  This is something our bodies are not able to do and we are seeking all the help we can.  I now tell people when I feel comfortable.  Also sometimes it just slips out because it's top of my mind and I've not had an unkind word yet.  They are ignorant of what we have to go through, but so many people don't mean to be unkind.

Pixie....so much good luck for your treatment.  We all know the worry you will be going through.  We have to trust that the doctors will do their utmost to get the right result for us, but it is important that they explain everything and don't leave you asking why they haven't done something.  That's what they're there for so pester them for that answer.  You need to be calm and comfortable - remember it's about you, not them.  

I see we have been moved to another area on the forum.... a sad little title that 'End of the road...or not'.  I like to think not, but as you can see from my signature, I'm an old lady now!!  In fact, I need to update it, I'm 44.  I never, ever thought I'd be 44, let alone childless.  I don't even have anything wrong really, I've just run out of eggs due to my age.  People look at me and I know they are thinking 'you shouldn't have left it whilst you pursued your career should you'?  I read articles every day like that.  The truth is I didn't leave it.  I just didn't meet DH til later on in life.  But I live in some hope - my grandmother had her last child at 45!

Well off to work.  Whatever your days bring, remember we are all here and all going through similar heartache.  Let's hope something good happens today, however small.  xxx


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## Scorpy (Oct 2, 2014)

JulietP - You just took the words out of my mouth, I think I originally saw this thread on the side menu 'Recent' topics etc so I didn't know what section it was under anyway, but seeing that its been moved to End of the Road.....or not, still made me feel instantly sad  
But we have gained loads of positive energy on this thread and a lot of support


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey everyone ☺
I noticed we got moved too but I suppose we were discussing stuff outside of the criteria so it's fair really.
Juliet  you are not an old lady, you are in your prime but trust me I know it doesn't feel like it on bad days .I think age isn't always even a factor really in ways, at 30 I was out of eggs too which is mad !! Like you I'm healthy otherwise or so they tell me but who knows hey !! Sometimes I think the more they do the more problems they find....which is even more crushing. 
Iv never been pregnant and feel like its a club il never get access to. This probably sounds mad but the first month I tried I remember sitting on the bed and an awful dread came over me and it was like I knew in a way . I was always a positive person and within reason life had gone my way so it wasn't like I was being a negative Nancy but I remember saying to Kieran "something is wrong" he told me I was being silly but god I was right 😢😢
Between us all we have the elements to have a baby but each one of us is missing something....the answer then its clinics that rip us off 😠😠😠
personally I'm lucky that I can do egg donation at some stage but to be honest failing ivf has terrified me and definetly destroyed my positivity. I found it humilating lying in the clinic being told how inadequate my folicles were and I really dont know if I can face failing again.
I know if I don't try il never know but I think the chance of failing might tear me completely apart.
I read a book about a girl who spent every penny she had and failed and she said if she had stopped half way through her life would have been better . Childless and pennyless are not where I ever want to be .I know I could go to the states spend every penny I have and do the guarantee programme but its bloody crazy to think id need to pay some doctor 30 000 for this !!!! I feel its irresponsible too to invest all you have as the minute you havO a baby you need savings etc.
I daydreamed today about a reasonable clinic opening and doing treatments much cheaper . One thing I could never get my head around is why is the price still so high when you have an egg donar !!! Its 9000 here its a joke !! Its the same as ivf but with 2 people but fundamentaly the same as eggs out and eggs in.
Sorry for ranting 😅😅
Your right too Juliet about being angry at my friend that told my secret 😐 maybe I'm just diverting my anger there.
Ok off to make dinner
Tlk soon guys ☺☺


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## pixie1230 (Aug 30, 2014)

Hi guys!!! Good evening
Hope everyone is relax and sitting infront of the fire. Or snoozing now
Just read your post empty dreams, it hit me really. 
Honeslty i was thinking the same thing about this expensive fertility treatment. 
All we want it to have a baby that's why were working our ass off to pay the treatment. But if it fails over and over. You will be left with nothing. 
So the question is? When do we stop? after 3 treatments? If we're buried in debt? 
This is a gamble, we dont know if were going to win or not and that sucks! If we keep on trying and trying and it didn't work out, like what u said empty dreams we will still be childless and  pennyles. So what is the best thing to do? That i dont know yet since i am just starting my treatment. 
Right now i feel like my world revolves around just having a kid. That is my main focus, up to the point that i didnt go to university this year so that it wont conflict on my IVf schedule. I can sacrifice my future for this. I dont care if ill have a career or not. All i want is to have a baby. And i know its not good. 
Hubby is okay to spend all our savings just to have atleast 3 cycles of ivf. 
Honestly, i dont know where are we going if we spend all our money on this. All i i know is That little HOPE that i have, might give us the baby that we wanted for soo long.

Anyway guys, hope everyone is feelin better. 
I am about to inject my medication now. ouch!!!!
Talk to u soon guys!!!


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Hi everyone and thanks for letting me join in. Juliet yours was the first new post I read today and, again, every word resonated. I was finished by the IVF counsellor as she deemed that I was 'fine' and 'strong'. She didn't know the half of it!! I was still wishing that I didn't want to be here and had developed an unhealthy penchant for strong painkillers in the meantime. She never asked the right questions so only ever had little bits of truth. I feel so much of what you are all saying. I was intensely private with my first two treatments as didn't want pity if they failed. Lately I find that I too am slipping up, or simply telling people as after I fell apart I realised that I was bloody fed up of pretending that I was ok so others were comfortable. I've just had a loan for treatment and am praying that my op doesn't use it all up. If it does I don't know WHAT we'll do. In the meantime I vote we meet up in Ireland....in our dressing gowns....if only I could afford it! Sorry no personals but not enough battery on my phone to scroll through.   to everyone though, our feelings are validated here, that at least helps....more than anything else I've found yet.xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey Pixie ☺
I hear every word your saying , I feel we are held to ransom by the clinics and their pockets are filling by the second!! Because this is your first ivf you have every chance of success,if you have any questions I'm sure me or any of us on here can help 
The thing that helped me with the injection is that the pain they cause isn't as bad as the pain of not holding a baby 
Don't get me wrong its horrible but each evening you inject we are all behind you so much xxxxx
I used to do it the minute I got in from work to get it over with and I never had any side effects. I was as moody as normal no more so than regular lol !!!!
God I'm praying it works for you and we are all here every step of the way, my only advice is don't let the clinics push you into anything you haven't taken time to consider yourselves ☺
Haha MissMayhem I love the dressing gowns in Ireland idea !!!! Imagine it  maybe at somestage we could all meet untill till we can all pour out our feelings and actually be understood by each other !!
Goodnight guys xx


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## Scorpy (Oct 2, 2014)

Hey Everyone,
Does anyone know if there is any fundraising for IVF and fertility treatments?? If not why can't there be  There is fundraising for just about everything else you can think of...if its a matter of signatures to support the idea I'm sure we could provide evidence that there should be something existing...

Also I just came across this list of support groups in England,
http://www.infertilitynetworkuk.com/support/support_groups_6/england_wales

/links


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

I know, the money that this costs is simply extortionate, but of course we will find any way we can to pay it. I even attended a housing appointment today to see if we could apply for social housing as if we didn't have our house could use the money we have tied up in it for treatment. Changes in the law again though, we're not in housing 'need' and, even if we were, in the best case scenario we would only be eligible for a one bedroom property and there's a 5-10 YEAR waiting list for them, so that would rule out babies and adoption! They have us all ways eh! Scorpy, not sure if you've already come across this as is on the same network that your link is from, fertility awareness week 27 October -2 November and there is also a fundraising calendar, haven't looked at that part yet but here's the link http://www.infertilitynetworkuk.com/nfaw/

Good luck with the injections pixie, if it's any consolation the injections get easier as you go along, I even got where I did mine whilst we were out for dinner with friends twice, nobody even knew. And I never thought I'd say it as I remember my first injection, standing there frozen for ages as I didn't have the courage to do it, but I got where I actually enjoyed them as I felt that I had just a teeny little bit of control over this whole crazy process, and they gave me hope. Unfortunately for me I was at the mercy of an NHS consultant who seemed to have a 'one size fits all' approach and simply increased my meds to max when I responded slowly to my first cycle. Sadly though research I've done since shows that this is often not the best thing for a woman my age and I just responded worse. BUT, I know that there are thousands of women who don't even get that opportunity because of how unfair the system works. Nice to know too that the mood swings weren't just me  emptydreams   to you all.


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Morning all, just a quick one from me this morning!  I overslept as I have a cold and am feeling rotten - not quite bad enough to not go to work though.... .  

Miss Mayhem, I felt just like you with the injections.  I loved being in control, knowing each one was pushing me a step closer to my goal.  I hate having blood taken so thought I'd not have the courage to do it, but the nurse made me use a needle as a practice in the clinic, and from then on I actually didn't feel anything at all.  I think there were maybe one or two that left bruises, but it wasn't painful.  

Thanks for the links too Scorpy, I shall have a good look at those.  

Its such a shame we're not all closer together!!  A little gathering of us all somewhere warm (dressing gowns and dribbling optional!) would be just lovely.  

Anyway girls, off to work.  I hope your days are good - Pixie, I hope you're getting through those injections and Maria, only a few more hours til you are away from your horrible colleague!!  

xxx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Hi ladies, I have just found this thread and read it from start to today's post and what a wonderful thread it is. Thought I would say hello as didn't want to a be silent reader!

I'm off to work in a while and today we are having a leaving lunch for a lady going on maternity leave, I know I will be the only one secretly celebrating her leaving just because it will make my working day a lot easier not seeing her huge bump everyday. Is it bad to hope she doesn't come back?


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## Scorpy (Oct 2, 2014)

Hey Alotbsl! Your certainly not alone in your hope that she doesn't come back as I would be the same! Many women in my office have recently left on maternity and the whole floor showers them with gifts and gathers to wish them well....whilst I stay sat at my desk! Then theres the brining the baby into the office event, again I stay sat at my desk! 

MissMayhem, sorry to hear about the housing situation but also sorry that you'd have to think about this, it just isn't fair   Yeah its coming up to awareness week...Im trying to work up the courage to share that on ** or not, I probably won't for some reason I still want to keep it relatively private if people think I may have problems.

Just been signed off work another week, I am so trying to avoid returning to the real world!  It is a shame we can't all meet up if just to feel relaxed around other people for once


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi everyone xxx
And a big hello to you Alotbsl ☺☺☺, you are so welcome to the group, I actually cry happy tears when a new person joins as in a way we are all the same and it makes me feel normal again ☺.
Reading everyone's stories its so amazing how we all feel the same, I actually really enjoyed my injections too....it was bizarre  but I felt it gave me some form of power over things. I remember standing in the kitchen the first day I did mine and catching kieran looking at me cringing as he was so uneasy about the whole thing. ...as mad as it sounds I took such pride in being brave almost as if to impress him .I think I was saying "hey I'm broken and I can't even give you the baby you deserve but I can man up and stick this into me ". He looked so proud of me every night and I loved it..... the results didn't equate to the effort for me but everyone is different ☺
How are you feeling today Pixie ?? I'm sending you every good wish in the world xxxx ,as are we all ☺.
Juliet I'm sorry your feeling poorly,I hope you can rest up and take it easy for the weekend, hopefully it will pass ☺☺☺
Pjs and relax time for you ☺ A few sherrys too or a nice glass of wine 😅😅
Its really sad we all feel ripped off too ,the world of fertility clinics needs to change, it should be a recognised illness and there should be proper protocols in place re pricing and some treatments that should automatically be free. 
God what a crack we would have if we met up !! We could have a prize for the best drooler 😅😅and the worst cryer !! Never say never though it might be possible someday ☺
Iv often thought about liking a ** status about infertility too but I just can't do that yet.
I feel so bad for you Scorpy and Alotbsl that ye both work with such awful pregnancy awkwardness. The next day you have to sit at your desk alone Scorpy know that you are not alone at all but that in a way all of us are here for you and are on your side xx.
Don't feel bad about wishing bumps to disappear either , I do it all day every day !! I hope my colleague needs to leave early and il so take that day off .....god id be a blubbering mess, ye are all a lot stronger than me.....I cry in work a lot but no one knows I run to the loo and plaster my makeup back on 😅😅😅
Guys thanks to each and everyone of you. You have all made me feel ok about myself again and you know what I think we are a pretty extradorinary group of strong women !!!
Have a great weekend guys,
Ps get well soon Juliet xx 
Maria ☺☺
Ps just a thought if we could all change one thing about the whole infertility treatment process what would yours be 
Id say stop the clinics ripping us off and make them reportable to an independent body.
Tlk later ☺☺☺☺☺


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Hi everyone, and welcome Alotbsl, I'm not new to ff but am relatively new to this post too so you're not the only newbie! Am smiling at the thought of the optional dribbling, think Ireland would be off the cards for a large chunk of the year if we were looking for 'somewhere warm' though.  

How did your jabbing go pixie?  Ok I hope, and suspect.  emptydreams it's so lovely to hear how proud DH was of you for being so brave, I reminded mine the other day about how Godawful he was, he almost didn't acknowledge at the time, until he felt the wrath of a forced-menopausal woman for the first time!   

We share so many feelings, I'm a regular on another thread too and it's the same there.  I often cry tears of joy as, as awful as it is to think that others are suffering like me, it is so wonderful to finally have some validation to your most private and painful feelings.  Pregnant colleagues, I'm off work until mine is gone, won't be going back until she is, I just can't cope with it so my op tomorrow is coming at the right time in that sense.  

Scorpy I've felt the same about you on ** for ages but yesterday I thought to hell with it and posted.  AND during the awareness week I am going to post an eecard about infertility and the pain it causes or a fact about it EVERY SINGLE DAY.  Just to pee some people off!!   You can see those who are with you and those who aren't immediately. I do think about everyone knowing still but there is a part of me that doesn't care, it's not a huge part so my splurge will only be temporary.  I'm going to post until I know that people will be sick of it....just like I am of clicking and seeing baby scans, baby pics, children's pics, children's posts blah blah blah....even people adding links to celebs who have just given birth.  I mean really?!  Are they going to stop the press because Josephine Bloggs has just congratulated them?!  Yes conception, pregnancy and life are AMAZING but why are we so interested in celeb's lives for goodness sake?  Personally I'm really not bothered that Holly Willoughby is not only talented, lovely, drop dead gorgeous and as fertile as the old woman who lived in a shoe.  Do I really need that rammed in my face on top of all your own kids?!  Grrrrr! I just saw a post on my ** too where I wasn't able to wear my fave shoes as my feet had swollen with arthritis only for a former colleague to say was that because I had a little 'junior' on the way.  That was in 2011.  She was one of four girls to get married that year, they were all pregnant within 6 months of choosing to try, I am the fourth.   This particular girl is also older than me and significantly overweight, good job she never had the pleasure of meeting with my old consultant who would've taken pleasure in telling her that it was unlikely to happen for her unless she did something about that! Am sure she took pleasure in telling me I was 'too big', yes she actually used those words, I was probably a stone or two overweight at most.

I agree with empty dreams that we are pretty damn extraordinary, we deal with pain day in day out and (for the most part at least) still manage to function.  And you're right, it should be recognised properly by employers and the rest of the world.  I'm sorry that you're struggling so much at work, I would never usually advocate for taking time off but I have benefited so much from not being there.  Make sure you put yourself first, at least sometimes.  

As for what I would change?  So many things to choose from but if you're tackling the clinics I will tackle the people who think they're helping by offering up their kids/eggs/husbands/wombs.  Particularly, for me, those in their 40s who (since I've put my badge on **) clearly make a naive assumption that because they were fertile in their younger days their bodies will surpass my clapped out 'old' one any day and think it's ok to advertise that to the rest of the world!  I know people mean well but the next person to inadvertently make me feel less of a woman by being rent-a-wombs may feel the wrath that hubster is now accustomed to - they're lucky I'm not cycling! 

Hugs to you all, hope the weekend is good to you.  Cross your fingers for me that op goes ahead as have got a cold coming again as well, hope it doesn't affect things.  Hope you're better soon Juliet and apologies to anyone I've missed. Time for some shut eye.xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Fantastic post MissMayhem ☺☺
I choked on my porridge at some of your references !!! They are hilariously brillant ☺☺.The old woman in the boot literally made me laugh the whole way to work !! And that's some achievement as I detest working saturdays !!
Don't get me started on rent a womb lol !! One of my friends suggested I should call up to her with kierans sample in a turkey baster !!!! I love how they think its so simple !! I felt like saying "iv seen your kids .....no bloody thanks !! But couldn't agree with you more ppl presume their eternally fertile and yes its all amazing and beautiful but lets me honest a lot of idiots pull it off all the time so im not going hand out medals for conception yet ....a few of my friends feel they deserve them though !!!
Don't get me wrong either Kieran has been mostly good but def not perfect no man can be in this situation to be fair. But more than once I felt he left me down a bit or just isn't as affected as I am 😢
I really feel for your setup with work especially as ye all got married together too, its so much extra pressure you just don't need . It's appalling your consulant said that to you and I think they use weight as a scapegoat , iv seen both extremes get pregnant, closet anorexics and larger ladies so yes healthy lifestyle is a factor but not essential.
Does anyone on here have expierance of pre menopause symptoms  At 33 its bit mad but as my egg basket is all outta eggs its a very realistic outcome for me . I've lots of random symptoms lately but most annoying is my once excellent memory os gone foggy in a way ....very irratable too and sometimes broken sleep, these are all new to me so wondering can anyone relate ?? 
Its really good we are compiling a list of what annoys us about the system and reading each others shows us things in a different light ☺☺looking forward to reading everyones .
I'd better head back to work just on lunch and got my periods this morn, they are soooo painful to top it off 😢😢 feminax I love though lol !! 
Great post again miss mayhem and forgot to say I hate god damn famous pregnant posts too !!! Really who cares !! And yes we shud ram it down their throats on ** as they do it to us !
Tlk later
maria 
☺☺☺


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## pixie1230 (Aug 30, 2014)

Hello everyone!!! Welcome to the club Alotbsl!
Sorry wasn't able to post anything for a couple of days. I am still on injections. Started injecting two medications now, one in the morning and one in the evening. 
Went to my clinic yesterday, and they've seen 3 follicles on the left and 5 on the right, the nurse didn't give me the sizes of the follies, and didn't comment if its a good thing or not so I dont know if everything is fine. Just so scared of the outcome. 
Was thinking two days ago if all this injection and result are all worth it in the end? I don't know if I can go through another cycle if this cycle wont work for us. To think that this journey is just a month and a couple of weeks only or a month for some women, but there's a lot of obstacles that you need to go through and on every stage you need to pass.
My husband's cousin who go through ICSI just did her Pregnancy result yesterday and, was a BFP! We were skyping her and i felt happy for her but jealous at the same time  
And yeah I agree with you emptydreams, we are the heroes here! We are experiencing all the pain. Physically, Emotionally, and Mentally. What else can we get? 
DH sometimes gets frustrated at me with all my rant before injecting the medication I just started to snap when he said that "You know what to expect when you agree doing this treatment"  So I told him you won't know what I am going through since you are not experiencing what i am experiencing. People can sympathize with you but they don't really know what is going on.
Waking up in the morning, knowing you have to inject yourself before getting out of the bed is so horrible.
OH GOD! Please give me more strength pleasee!! 
The health sector should start considering making free treatment for couples suffering infertility. As this is not our choice. 
I strongly feel that cancer and infertility is more like in the same level. There's like 50/50 chance if we're going to be successful or not. 
Though cancer can get your life, but not having a children of your own is like the same feeling. I wish they can just take my life if that happens. 
I always tell my mom that she is lucky to have me and my brother. That she was able to feel having children, which might not happen to me. 
As much as possible I am trying to be pessimistic, because i don't want to get hurt in the end. Maybe it is better that way, so you are ready. But if things work out good you will be the happiest person in the world. 

Anyway Ladies, Hope you are all having a great weekend! Just bundle up as it is cold!! 
I had cold yesterday, but doing great now. Unfortunately i passed it to DH! So he was sneezing since early morning before going to work. Hope he feels better, as I want and him to be healthy while doing the treatment too.

Chat with you ladies again soon. Got another scan appointment tomorrow. xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Best wishes for the op too Miss Mayhem , hope it goes ahead and that it all goes well,
Thinking of  you ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ 
Maria xxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi Pixie ☺ ☺
Thats really really good about your follicles !! 8 is really good that early on, im soooo excited for you !! Its actually lovely  to be excited about pregnancy for once !! Let us know how you get on tmr il cross everything for you !!!
Your so right about cancer and this, they are both debilitating just in different ways . Maybe in time the government and the health system will see how making us pay is just cruel 😢
Relax and take it easy and think lots of positive stuff, iv only few hrs left in work thank god, so looking forward to just doing nothing for the evening. 
Lots and lots of good wishes to you,
Tlk soon xx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Thanks for your wishes emptydreams....it went ahead  They took my ovary though so bigger op than expected and, therefore, bigger price. Am in a hospital bed overnight for the first time in my life and am dreading invoice day! You help me and I repay you by making you choke!  Glad to make you smile though  Will post properly when my eyes aren't straining in the dark so much, just replying quick as can't sleep.   to you all.xx


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## Scorpy (Oct 2, 2014)

Hi Everyone!
Good for you MissMayhem to have enough courage to post on **!! It would certainly make a change for people to be made to be aware of this, like we are with their constant barrage of baby scans, statuses and shared links! Argh 

Thanks EmptyDreams for helping me to realise I'm 'not alone'  ...I am aiming to go back to work the week after next and my boss will want to know how he can support my return etc and help me...(notice the gender here 'he') I don't know how he is going to understand having 3 toddlers of his own, I'm probably just going to be one of 'those' women who go and have IVF, its as easy as popping to the shop for a pint of milk right, no big deal(!)...he better understand infertility treatment is hard going and the emotional side is a constant agony that won't cease until we get the outcome we want. 

Again I ventured out yesterday and there was pregnant women or women with babies EVERYWHERE...
My immediate thought when I see a baby: I WANT ONE!   
My immediate thought when I see a pregnant woman: HOW on earth is SHE healthier than me?! How are HER insides all perfect and mine are messed up! What the hell have I done! 

I was feeling pretty motivated to get my diet on track to be as healthy as possible and start having the 'fertility smoothie'...I went to buy the supplements and they were £20 each(!) and I needed 4 of them. Again my motivation turned into nothing but bitterness that there are drug addicts out there that abuse their bodies and yet get pregnant (Reference: Jeremy Kyle!) and yet I'm having to spend this amount of money, which I don't exactly have lying spare, to try and be 'healthy'.


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey guys ☺☺☺
I feel really bad for you Miss Mayhem 😢😢 you poor thing staying in overnight, I've never done that (touch wood) and I can only imagine its horrible. I'm not sure if you were prepared for the operation involving what it did but I wish you a very speedy recovery. I can only imagine the bill, hospitals really know how to charge and it brings me back to the point that issues involving fertility and womb issues should all be covered somehow, in ireland our private health insurance doesn't even pay any bit towards it.
Make sure you take it easy now and don't get too down about stuff. I decided today that some things we just can't control but what we do have some form of a hold on( albeit a very weak grasp) , is our outlook and how we face the world. I'm determined to force myself if nesccessary to not let this whole thing define me......lets just see how long that  lasts 😅😅
Scorpy sometimes I think men are a bit better than women in the workplace I mean , perhaps the fact we can't envy their ripe wombs helps in a way !! I get on in a much more relaxed way with the lads and older women in work as I don't judge myself against them and most importantly they don't talk baby crap !!!
In relation to seeing babies etc everywhere that never really changes 😢😢. I use different coping mechanisms and somedays they help other days nothing helps. Try these things when you see kids just remember No one else will have your baby, what I mean is it's not those kids you are envying, no other baby will ever be as amazing as yours so all those others are not what you really want, also look at how flustered parents are, always tired a bit thrown together and you know what ?? you can go home and have sneaky naps whenever you want , they sure can't !! Also other peoples kids are brats lol !! 
Another thing I try to do is focus on doing nice things for myself and as a couple , weekends away , meals or my favourite..... wine bars !!!! They can all be done cheaply and cheerfully, I always keep an eye on special offer things too.
We need a little luxury every now and then 
The supplement and vitamin charges are a joke !! After my ivf's didn't work I went to reflexology, what a joke, she sold me loads of vitamins as stupidly expensive prices and tiddled my feet for half an hour !! She was only interested in money and one day I broke down in there and I got absolutely no sympathy or understanding from her 😠😠😠😠😠 A week later she text to know would she book me in again as her calender was filling up !! I text back that I was really down and shock horror no reply at all. Bottom line we need to be careful about getting taken advantage of 😐😐
Well I'm off to head to town to get my nails done as I really enjoy it.I hope everyone is doing ok and have a nice weekend guys☺
Speedy recover Miss Mayhem xx


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## pixie1230 (Aug 30, 2014)

Hello ladies, just went to the clinic today for a scan. All the follicles that I have before didnt develop as it should be. They just stayed the same size as they were 2 days ago, so my cycle has stopped due to poor response 
Well should I be immune to this already?! I was crying all day. It's just never ending. 
How can life be so cruel?!! I am so mad but I feel like I cant do anything. This is not in my hands. 
Doctors told me they need to review my case. Might need to do long protocol this time. As i didnt respond well to short protocol and for my age she said i should be responding to this but unfortunately I didnt. 
They might do open surgery for me. As i have endemetrioma (4cm) and left tube has hydros. But they said it is really risky for me to have an open surgery.
Asked her too, what if this cycle(long protocol) wont work? Since open surgery is not an option, she didnt answer me. She's really focused on producing more eggs at the moment. And telling me that women with hydros can be pregnant though chances are decrease. 
I guess if thats the case I just need to accept that even IVF wont work for me. Feels like I am being crushed at the moment. I couldnt stop crying. I dont know what to do anymore. I just want this to be over
DH was about to cry when the doctor said we need to push back the treatment again.
I told him sorry loads of times. But he said for me not to say sorry. I just feel everything is my fault and i owe him an applogy for all the things that is happening. 
Sorry thats all I can share at the moment. 
Miss mayhem- hope u feel better soon And hopefully everything turn out great for u 
Ladies you all have a wonderful night.xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Ohhhh Pixie 😢😢😢😢😢
I was the same mine didn't get bigger either when I did it . You know what I think we must remember that these are chemicals and medicines nature never intended our bodies to react too so its no surprise that sometimes it doesn't work 😢
I'm really sorry and angry for you...... right now you feel empty broken and totally crushed .You're very right life is so cruel. I wish I could hug you and cry with you as I share your pain. You have no need to be sorry it is out of our control but I l did the same and blamed myself. We will not be defined by this Pixie, this is not your fault and you sound like such a lovely person you deserve happiness. 
Be kind to yourself Pixie and I'm here if you want to vent or cry or whatever you need xxxx
This is a pain none of us ever knew about and it has brought us all to our knees but we will fight back Pixie.
Let the tears flow out and I'm here for you anyway I can be xxxxx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Oh pixie I am so sorry to hear that.  Such a devastating blow for you both.  It's hard to put the pain, frustration and unfairness into words when your body just won't do what you want it to do.  I want to wrap you up and tell you not to say 'sorry' as there is no way that any of this can be your fault, as everyone else is saying, it is completely outside of our control.

Am so sorry that your medical insurance doesn't even cover treatment in Ireland emptydreams; again yet another example of the external unfairness of all of this, as if the internal weren't enough to deal with. This is why I'm careful not to complain too much at the treatment we got on the NHS, until today at least!, as I know that there are so, so many who don't get the opportunity we had.

Thanks for your good wishes.  Am home now after a night with no sleep.  Luckily hubby had a word with someone at the hospital so post theatre I was moved to a different ward....that wasn't right next to maternity!  For five hours I had to sit and listen to the babies screaming, and everyone commenting on them and they can remember when they had their first, fourth, third, blah blah blah.  Even then the almost instant question I was asked by nurses was 'how many children do you have Mayhem?'  Although we have tried not to criticise NHS as we know we're so lucky to have had opportunity we were floored today by the size of mass that was removed, were showed pictures and it was almost the same size as my uterus, yet NHS picked up on nothing only two years back.  I know things can grow quickly but consultant seemed a bit disconcerted by the treatment we have had so far, he couldn't say categorically that it hadn't been there before but I'm confident that he thinks that it's just something that has been missed.  Now the wait to find out what it is, whether it's been affecting my fertility and whether we are going to have money left for treatment after paying for it.  Just plan to rest for now and deal with things as they crop up.xx


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## pixie1230 (Aug 30, 2014)

Thanks empty dreams and miss mayhem. Just not in the mood for everything at the moment. House is so quiet. Hubby and I would rather ignore that topic. I woke him up and telling him how depress I am earlier. 
Miss mayhem, u doing okay now? How are u feelin? 
Emptydreams, sounds like you are enjoying pampering yourself. Guess we all need it from time to time especially when we are going through this rollercoaster emotions from the treatment. Sounds like you are having fun glad you are happy 
I actually told hubby to go on a weekend vacation just to get out of town and do something, coz all we do is save money for the treatment every month. So maybe we need to treat ourselves with something. We never know I might die tomorrow or the next day, and I just consumed myself being miserable. Lol
Its bank holiday today, just making some dinner now for me and hubby and my dog takito 
Enjoy ur night ladies! xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

You so should Pixie , you need a break from it all. Try to get away or do anything at all that ye enjoy . We all loose ourselves on this journey and the damage never really disappears. None of us can easily revert back into the happy go luckys we once were but what we can do is try to be happy some of the time ☺.I read a thing today saying noone is happy all the time and all we can strive for is to enjoy the times that we are happy  .....I'm going to go with it even though I don't really get it but il pretend I do 😅😅😅😅
I love your dogs name !!!! Where did you get it from and what kind of dog do you have ?
Doggies are our furry babies 💗
I'm off to see a horror movie !!!! I won't sleep for a week id say lol !!!
ps pixie I don't want to come across all happy either im soooo not but im just jaded from being down so forcing myself to be bit more upbeat lately ☺im still a crazy raging hormonal mess under it all 😨😨😨
Tlk soon guys xxx


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## Scorpy (Oct 2, 2014)

Hi everyone, 
empty dreams your right our dogs are our fur babies! I mean that quite literally apart from making them wear nappies id say   & they are probably the only thing that can really cheer me up.
Dr phoned me today having said last week all my blood tests were fine, that actually she is concerned and wants them repeating in x3 months, my TSH thyroid test was 0.28 which she said was borderline under active?...I really really hope its not true. My motivation and determination for this month TTC, changing my diet etc has just collapsed today, struggling to get focussed again   Its all so confusing, having to research and scramble at finding bits of info here and there to help yourself, it never seems to come from the Drs mouth.


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Hi all, just thought I would pop on and see how we all are. glad to hear you are back home miss mayhem rest up and hope you are feeling better soon. Hope everyone else is okay.


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Just a quick one .....just to tell you Scorpy don't panic if its thyroid issues, the thyroid is an easy fix with medication but it has a huge bearing on fertility...I know a girl who ttc for 4 yrs before they realised that her thyroid was problematic.  She went on medication and was pregnant after few months, so don't panic xxx
Night guys I'm zonked 😴😴😴😴


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Morning girls, gosh so many posts since I was last on....

Pixie.....   , I'm so sorry about your treatment.  We all know that terrible come down as once again you have to live for now rather than the future you were imagining.  This is a horrible set-back, but not the end.  There is always hope and other avenues, but sometimes you need a rest and to find yourself again.  Take time and just be as kind as you can to yourself.  

Miss Mayhem, how are you feeling?  I hope you're resting and relaxing and feeling much better.

Welcome Alotbsl, it's good to have you on here!!

Maria, your post about your memory!!  I have been through awful patches where my memory just completely goes, and I've had the wakeful nights and hot sweats.  I was convinced this was menopause for me.  But I seem to have calmed down.  My last round was in June so I'm not sure if it was a combination of all the drugs and just the sheer stress and emotional upheaval.  Certainly the waking in the night was my mind going into overdrive.

It sounds like all of us have the only workplaces to be filled with pregnant people!  Honestly, I've never been so aware of how utterly selfish parents are.  Life is all about them and their children - our lives simply aren't on the 'importance' scale that theirs are.  My puppy is my life now and it is just important to me that I found his first and second tooth (and I've kept them!!) as it is for someone with a screaming brat!!!!    At least my puppy will never tell me he hates me (this keeps me going - all the awful things I've heard children say to their parents!).

I thought of you all on Friday.  Full of cold, in the office and a little girl rushes up to tell me that one of the boys (he's 20, I can call him a boy!) is bringing his baby in for the fifth time.  I calmly took myself off to the ladies til it was gone.  One of my managers, a lovely girl, came with me and I ranted about my stupid, selfish boss who consistently allows this to happen.  I was told that I wasn't the only one who was suffering.  One man in my office is engaged to a girl who has said she'll never want children, and another's girlfriend has just had a miscarriage.  Well I'm afraid I saw red.  I calmly requested a quick meeting with the boss and told her that whilst I didn't wish to cause any offence, I'm afraid I couldn't cope with people bringing their babies in to work and please could she ensure that if they did, they kept them out at reception so as not to upset me.  Whilst her response was pathetic, she did say she would sort it.  If this ever happens again, I'm straight up to HR.  I don't work in a creche, I shouldn't have to see actual children.  

Needless to say the boy has given me a few funny stares recently, but I don't care.  My unhappiness is more important than his happiness.  

Take care of yourselves and I'll try not to miss so many posts next time!
xxxx


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## Scorpy (Oct 2, 2014)

Hi everyone,
Thanks empty dreams, I have read that women who go on meds have got pregnant but its just frustrating why its now thrown into the mix and makes me feel like I've done something bad to my body  
I really don't want to go back to work next week where nobody will understand and nobody will think its important...its made me realise nothing is important but this, I don't care about the pointless job I do scrabbling to get a promotion, its all pointless.

JulietP you did right telling your boss! I mean why would anyone need to bring in their baby for a 5th time?! I do find some people almost force their babies onto people...despite how desperate I am to have my own baby I am actually not a fan of babies, I don't goo goo over them etc....but I will to a dog ha!  
& now I'm on that rant don't you just HATE it when someone allows their toddler to invade your personal space...they think its all cute and funny and that everyone loves toddlers, running around my table in a restraint, when really I'm thinking go away not everyone wants to be forced into goo-gooing!


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## pixie1230 (Aug 30, 2014)

Hahaha just find the name Takito cute. A baby tacos
He is a shihtzu, and he just turned 7 months old. 
Here is a pic of him 

__
http://instagr.am/p/tu7uLrx2yF/
  

Yeah emptydreams guess we need to drag ourselves to be happy. Just need to get out of the reality sometimes. 
I find it hard to deal with this kind of situations, guess i am not strong enough to fight. I am just wishing that I am in the stage of my life where I dont care about having a kid or not. It might take time, or maybe not, because you will always bump into someone who has baby in public places, and you will know someone who just got pregnant, or just had a baby, then you will remember your situation again and feel sorry UUGHHH!!!

Scorpy, I know what you mean about researching and finding things yourself. Its a shame that they dont really go through it all. That you need to remind them "how about this and that?"
What I do is i put everything on a piece of paper and write it so when my appointment comes I will be bombarding them with questions. LOL
With my clinic at the moment, two of my questions was never answered. They are just going round and round. Oh well!

JulietP 
Thanks! Maybe I am punishing myself too much. I've been trying not to think about it but It is difficult. Sometimes you just feel like crying and It is hard coz it is something we cant control. Wish I can just win the lottery and do surrogacy here and there. And adopt kids all over the world. Tough life i must say!  

Miss Mayhem, Hope you are recovering well from your surgery!

Hello Alotbsl! Hope you're doing okay!  

Hope everyone is doing okay! 
I am going to a scream park later to scare myself. Just something to do i suppose. Heheheh!

/links


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey Pixie, you allow yourself to cry.  It's the best thing you can do.  Sometimes we feel sorry for ourselves over all sorts, but this is different.  This isn't feeling sorry for yourself, this is grieving for a lost baby.  Who knows if time will make us accept our loss or whether it will be as raw as it is today, but there will be times when you can be happy and you have to hang on to those.  In the meantime you have your puppy!  I couldn't see your picture though....

Scorpy - oh yes, I detest toddlers!!  In fact if I see someone cooing over anything young, I turn the other way.  Most people prefer to coo over a dog anyway, especially a puppy, so I like to feel I have the upper hand!! I can't abide smug mothers.  Yeugh!!

Answering a question from way back on this thread - apart from the cost of IVF, the thing I wish the most is that they wouldn't just let you go after every cycle.  I wish there was a part of each clinic dedicated to 'what next'?  Whether it be something else you can try, a support group you can join, or information on your particular diagnosis.  There's far too much research needed by us, who are already emotional, already forgetful and already as tired and disillusioned by the whole system.  I want help after I've been told there's not much hope.  Because some people do the most amazing research and come up with a new procedure or new information.  I'm just not that good at finding things out.  I know this is not the same, but when you have cancer, throughout and after your treatment you have full support.  You are never let go to fend for yourselves.  This may not be life-threatening, but it is life-altering and we need proper medical advice and help.  Or just someone to hold your hand and know how you're feeling.

xxxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi everyone ☺☺☺☺
Hey Juliet ☺  thank god you had the memory thingy too lol !!!! I was getting freaked out by it a bit .... I was thinking great im childless and now on the way to memory loss too !! Iv googled it and supposedly its "fog brain " due to dropping hormone levels !!! Im not going to worry about it as im sure it will pass !! 
Im sooooooo proud of you for dealing with your boss I totally admire your directness and professionalism in dealing with such a hard sutuation. Again its us having to rectify stupid situations where people should know better and stop with the selfishness of rubbing their kids in peoples faces !!! God even listening to xmas toy lists in work is hideous ....come on like people open your eyes and see our pain, we can only play along for so long and yet they are relentless. ... if I have to watch another video of my collegues daughter dancing and singing il freak !!!
Your right Scorpy I feel we have to lead the doctors by the nose almost they seem out of their dept and overlook really obvious things, like their playing a game of catch up with us !! They lack our sense of urgency 
Pixie I have a shih tzu too 💗💗!!!!! Cindy is 7 and iv a pekingese called Piko, I love them beyond words and your so right Juliet they are more mannerly than most kids !!! 
I can't see pic either but what a lovely idea to share our puppy pics !
On ** there is a page im on , its an animal lovers group mostly people sharing pet pics, stories tips advice etc and most importantly an avenue to celebrate our furbies !! Ye should all join their is huge ammount of members on it too. Infertility is never mentioned on it but I bet it has some victims of it on there too
Its called Against animal abuse ireland, it does highlight some cruelty cases but mostly a pet forum.
Very true about the cancer reference also, you can entrust your health far more so in the case of that as the ptotocol is already established for treatment and afterwards. We definitely get tossed aside when our treatments fail and are left alone to pick up the pieces after they ve picked up our cash. Its fantastic to see our list of what we would change growing as its these issues that need to change for the better.
Did anyone get a private mail today from a person claiming to help them get pregnant ?? Im bit nervous but maybe that happens on this site, said id ask in case it was a gimmic ??
So much stuff I mean to say but iv forgotten half of it !!!!!
Tlk soon guys xxxx
I always look forward to seeing everyone's posts xxx💗


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## Scorpy (Oct 2, 2014)

Hey everyone,
Juliet, mentioning cancer, it is such a terrifying, devastating word, and people can make me feel guilty sometimes if Im getting down about fertility or mental health problems, especially when people say 'at least you have your health'... I mean obviously nothing would be worse than an illness like that, but I don't agree with people 'comparing' situations its almost trying to take our very evident feelings away from us as though this is not a 'worthy' enough reason to be upset etc? 
And the view that everyone is struggling with their own problem, probably mostly true but I know some people that literally float through life with everything landing in their hands and its not cases whereby behind closed doors they are sat there crying as these are also the people whom judge those with Depression and Stress and say to live life to the full, again taking away the fact that these are illnesses. So there may be people whom are worse off but there are definitely those people that are better off to! Glass half full or half empty I suppose...Im a half empty and always looking how to fill it up!  

& I agree about the whole service, I feel like we get plonked in the 'fertility' pile, and get forgotten about for x3 months, then your uttered into the Drs and very quickly pushed out of the door!
I shared with my husband how no one is realising how I feel at the moment, he said he was going to look into a private health care scheme now, which I'm even sceptical about how much better that can be...


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Morning Scorpy and Maria and everyone!

Scorpy, we went privately and were so pleased with the treatment we received during our cycle.  We had previously had tests through the NHS and it took over a year to get the right tests and the right results, so when we went to the private clinic and a blood test was done that day and the results given the next day, I was so relieved.  But they are there for profit, and whilst the individuals were incredibly kind, at the end we were just let go.  To date, we are STILL waiting an answer from our consultant about sperm testing.  We've just sent our letter to them expressing our deep upset and anger at our treatment.  We never expected miracles, but we did expect to be given answers to our questions, even if we were not paying.

Maria, no I didn't receive a private mail, but I'd be a little cautious.  I would hope that anyone coming on to this site would either be in our situations or have only good intentions, but someone claiming to help you get pregnant sounds warning bells to me.  This is a good, safe forum to discuss with that person, but I wouldn't give out anything personal.  I'd definitely find out what they're offering.  If you've seen my posts from ages ago (and my signature) you'll see I had an egg donor go awol on me.  She contacted me through this site and sounded absolutely lovely and genuine.  She did give me a lot of information, and through what she told me I found out where she worked, saw pictures of her and her children and felt extremely comfortable about going ahead with her help.  She did make an appointment with my clinic's counsellor, so I do believe her intentions were there.  But she never turned up and I never heard from her again.  I think some people who don't understand, don't realise how devastating it is to promise us help and then not deliver.  So be careful, but I hope this is a good person truly wanting to help you.

xxx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Hi everyone

I didn't receive a PM Maria but I do know like Juliet that people can contact you privately. I had a few people contacting me at the beginning of my journey about donating eggs but definitely be cautious. The best thing to do is ask them to contact you clinic for information at least then it's going through the professional channels.

Forgive me all for not doing individual messages As havent had chance to do much as I had surgery yesterday but back home now.

I had a laporoscopy  last year to clip my tubes but they only managed to get to one of them. After a failed cycle at the beginning of this year was told I really need the second tube sorted for any kind of future chance. Was told they would try to do it by lap again but may have to go to open surgery to get at it, I was also told due to all the adhesions and being stuck to the bowel they may do the open surgery but not be able to do anything anyway, So I really had no idea what  news i was going to Come round to.

I can't belive something has actually gone my way for once. I came round and they Couldnt clip the tube or remove it but the have seperated it from the uterus and sealed the end and all by laparoscopy. They say it has the same affect as clipping, so I am over the moon as I was 100% sure I was have open surgery.

Signed off for two weeks now so when I'm feeling a bit better I will have plenty of time to read all the posts in more detail.


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

......just read a post on another thread where a lady had received a PM about helping her to get pregnant seems a few people are getting these messages. She was advised to report it to the moderators as they would like to know about any spams etc.


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Thanks guys ☺
Yeah I was instantly suspicious alright , I didn't reply as the message claimed to use medicine and magic....its prob spam .
Juliet I never knew that happened to you with an egg donar , thats horrible, I believe she prob did initially have good intentions but to let you down so abruptly is not nice. I never knew you could organise an egg donar outside of a clinic ?? I thought unless you had family or friends to facilitate that a clinic was only other option ? If you or anyone else knows how you do it privately id be grateful.
I can't say I have it in me to believe enough to try again but its no harm knowing. 
Im glad to hear your op went well Alotbsl xxx I know what you mean when you say you were shocked by it going to plan, we have learned to anticipate failure and expect the worst 
I feel kind of cross today again, my stupid pregnant colleague is calcuting her time off and how she'll be owed extra hols next year due to the bank hols that occur while she's on maternity leave !!!
Can't remember who said it now , I think it was you Scorpy but im sick of people that get it all easy too and their not even nice people !!!!!
So she pops out a baby to add to her other 2 , gets 6 months off and a load of extra hols once shes back and us  Well we scrape ourselves up to fight another day, to hide our tears and to wear false smiles.
Yes I have a good life but this is twisting me into a bitter person. Im so angry at my other group of friends too , I confronted them about telling my secret and not even an apology .....I got a text back saying "obviously we told her you were very upset as struggling to get pregnant" !!!! How dare they , I read back texts id sent that day to them and I clearly stated 3 times not to tell that particular friend as she knew nothing !!!!
I feel like I never want to see them again and iv known them since I was 5  
Why are people so nasty ??
Sorry for being a crank ass guys 😅😅😅! !,
Tlk soon maria xxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey Girls, Alotbsl, I'm so pleased your op was a success. Onwards and upwards. You rest and try and enjoy your time off. Read lovely books, watch loads of films...paint your nails.....oh if only I had time to myself!!

Maria, I would be equally as angry by your friend's reply. That is totally insensitive. If you make a mistake by blabbing someone's personal life, at least have the good grace to admit it and be sorry. It's so hard when you've been friends for that long, but at some point there are friends in your life that stop bringing you joy and start making your life a misery. The best thing is to give them a wide berth for as long as you need and hope they say sorry. If not, you protect yourself, you do not need these people in your life. You need warm, caring, understanding people and if that leaves you with only one friend, then that's worth more than 10 who think your life is everybodies business.

As for the egg donor, I put a post on here. http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=313678.0. Someone else had done the same thing and had lined up a donor. So I tried it too and got one reply. You are allowed any donor you like, I think the reason we all believe it has to be friends, family or the clinic is that to believe someone could actually donate altruistically is beyond our comprehension. But I do believe that they are out there. Some people advertise in their local post office!! I took a lot of emails to trust her and I asked her everything that mattered to me. I sort of got the protocol of questions from my clinic and then added a million other things and gave her the choice of answering. She answered everything and so I felt very comfortable with her. I guess my only advice is be prepared. I think some people want to be good, but when the reality hits, get very scared.

When IS your horrible colleague leaving? I hate her. 

xxxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi Juliet ☺ ☺
I read your thread about your egg donation journey and I felt your joy and excitement at the start and even though I knew the ending I was still hoping in a way it could end differently 
I think what hits us the most are the obstacles we don't expect, you were prepared for the wait for a donor and once you had all that done you would never expect them to go awol  
For me my follicles not responding at all I didn't see coming, I was prepared for it failing after the transfer but not before 
My colleague is leaving mid January , it seems a long way off now, yes she isn't as in my face as before but she will still stand 2 feet from me and have a full conversation about baby names etc!!
I'm dreading the birth , you see we were practically best friends before and I was the  first up to the hospital with bags of gifts, teddy's and balloons, her 2nd pregnancy was only few months into my trying so again I was so involved but now iv never acknowledged this pregnancy since I had my initial chat about how I can no longer be involved. I can see them all in work saying "any news maria from her yet??" And" oh will we call to see her ?"
I don't want to see this baby at all !!!! Does anyone else feel as strongly about not seeing babies ?
Juliet thanks again you really calm me down and I always feel we are in a similar situation .
Tlk soon guys xxxx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Hi girls and apologies in advance for not replying to everyone, can't scroll properly on this phone! The message sounds dodgy as to me, awful if it is and it's someone targeting our vulnerability. 

Am glad your op went smoothly alotsb, we are recuperation buddies!   I too know the relief of waking to find it hasn't been open surgery, although I still cried at having to stay overnight. Am still waiting for the financial damage of my op, hoping it won't be too shocking. Hope you're enjoying your time. I'm going a bit stir crazy not being able to drive as our village is quite isolated. Have been off work a while too as I don't have your resolve emptydreams and couldn't cope with pregnant colleague any longer. Mine isn't like yours though, she sounds completely insensitive. You are doing amazing to cope thdm way you are .

Am so sorry to hear how your friends have been. So hurtful for you. Juliet is right about protecting yourself. Hope you have at least one that you can truly depend on. One of my old friends has resurfaced and has been amazing at sitting and letting me 'be' with my feelings without trying to fix or make me feel better. She's been instrumental in my recovery and has come back into my life wih perfect timing. My other friends, best friend in particular, not so great, but I suppose we have different friends with different qualities. They're there when I'm 'better' and up for getting drunk!  It sounds as though some of yours haven't 'got' the importance of keeping quiet and are deflecting it now they suspect they're in the wrong, however well intentioned they may have been. I hope they treat you with more care and sensitivity in future.

I share your feelings of shock around untimely failure. After my firt cycle, which I naively thought would work!, I was a little more prepared for my embryos not to stay, I didn't think for a second it would go wrong before that! We prepare as much we can but I think hope still lingers so much we never can truly prepare. Same for you Juliet, you had probably gone through every eventuality in your head. For the donor to do that to you is unforgivable. I can't imagine how painful that was.   Ideally she would have had the courage to at least tell you, I forget not everyone is strong though.

I'm the same too with babies! Last month I held a baby for the first time in over three years. This is not me! I have always loved babies, having been surrounded by them all my life. I had to prepare myself over four months with this baby. He lives a few doors away and his mother, who is very overweight and a heavy smoker/drinker got pregnant 'accidentally' at 36. That smarted a bit in itself! I was ok holding him but there was no feeling as there would have been before this whole nightmare. My sister's friend had a baby recently too and I had to force myself to go see them and congratulate her. She's lovely and has had a tough few years so I'm happy for her but still couldn't feel any joy. He was beautiful too but all I could think was 'this should be me, why can't this be me?!' It changes you so much all of this. I hate the way I feel, it's so bitter and so negative but feel powerless to it

I hope it's changing a bit though, just a few months back I wouldn't have been able to do those things. I wonder if it's in relation to where we are mentally. My last cycle was in February and I know that this past few weeks, rightly or wrongly, I have felt more positive thinking things will change after my op. If they don't I think I'll fall apart again, and will probably lose my job to boot but that seems of little consequence in the grand scheme of things! 

Hugs and best wishes to you all   xx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey Maria and Miss Mayhem..... I have a glass of wine in my hand and I'm winding down to weekend without DH.  He is off in Spain off-road biking and I am going to have peace, puppy time and maybe some shopping!  In the meantime, my lights are off, avoiding the hideous trick or treaters!!

I am with you both about the shock of things not working.  My first round I achieved one beautiful embryo which was transferred on day 3.  It didn't work out, but that was ok, I was going to give it another go.  The second go, they didn't manage to get any good eggs from me and I was very shocked.  I am 44 but people constantly tell me I look a lot younger.  I assumed my body would be younger than my age too!!!  The decision to use donor eggs was extremely hard, but I completely got my head around it.  Now I am faced with donor embryos as the only choice and DH is very against it.  So we don't talk about babies any more....  I guess I keep hoping he'll come round but in reality I know he won't.  Burying my head in the sand is working for me!  Then there's the letter we've just sent to our clinic, which I guess will ensure they won't want me on their embryo donor list anyway.  I put myself on it with my last failed round, regardless of DH's feelings as I was sure I'd bring him round.....

I think we have a coping mechanism without realising it.  I used to love a baby, but now I'm just almost allergic to them.  I can't look at them.  There's no point.  What seems to be upsetting me more at the moment is slightly older children.  I guess 8 or 9 years olds.  They're proper people, but still need you desperately.  There was one in my puppy class the other night.  She was a sweet little thing, with a huge labrador (not quite a puppy I felt!), but I found myself getting more and more upset that I wouldn't have one like her.  A person who can laugh with me, plot against DH with me....play with the puppy with me...I don't know, someone to be a mini-me!!  I can't bear the thought of all the love I could give a little person just going to waste.

Anyway.  Enough feeling sorry for myself.  We have to believe that things will go our way, even if we change what we eventually want and need as time goes by.  Miss Mayhem, you get yourself well.  Jobs come and go but your health and happiness is everything.

Maria, grit your teeth til January, it'll come quick enough.  Then I'd be honest with your colleagues and say you've lost touch.  Let them contact her on their own terms.  I think it would be hard for her if you didn't congratulate her on it's arrival, but a card will suffice.  If she has any humanity at all she would not expect you to see it and if she kicks up a fuss, then bye bye former friend.  She can go and be selfish with someone else.    Maybe I should start a new service, offering people the chance to send an irritating friend a piece of their minds, but without the direct contact?  I could spend every day really telling people what their friends think of them!!!  

I hope you all have lovely plans for the weekend, get plenty of rest and do something just for you!

xxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey everyone ☺☺
Your very right Scorpy its like infertility is a test on all friendships, and sometimes those closest are the worst.  Its difficult then as you can't really confide in strangers either !! I think I just wanted an apology and I could of left it go then. I found out they had both rang my friend while she was away for a year in Canada to tell her all !! Funny thing is these are good friends so its hard to even be cross with them esp as they did not pick up on the pretty obvious text I sent explaining how hurt I was. I feel like there will forever be an elephant in the room now.
That's infuriating how your neighbour isn't the healthiest of people and she got pregnant just like that, I don't know how you had the will power to hold the baby, that's so strong of you, I know il never be ok with that. My best friend has a daughter that I see a lot she is three now, other than her all kids just make me so afraid that il become overwhelmed by emotion. Her mom is really unmaternal so maybe that's why I'm ok, there's a void there where I fit in ☺.
I don't even glance at babies and my other close friends kids make me so angry , I dislike their bratty ways and can't hide how uncomfortable I am near them. 
So funny Juliet whats with boys and bikes !! Kieran is obsessed with cycling and  I can see he needs it in a way as an escape, he never really gets down as he is so focused on training. I try to jog a little but loose focus and end up not running for months !! This starts arguments then as he will get cross and tell me to motivate myself 😢 they just don't get it really.
I hope you have a wonderful weekend and to be honest space from them is great, there is so much pressure on our relationships that cabin fever can set in .I like being home alone sometimes its peaceful and I can play with the dogs all day.
I know what you mean about our bodies feeling younger and acting older, I can be a bit of a joker  and love laughing so figured I'd have eternal youth... how wrong was I 😅😅😅.
I'm going to do as you say about my work colleague, il bide my time until she leaves and as you said il send a text to congratulate her and a card, that will be as much as I can do then.
I wonder if anyone else has had this line of thinking ? I was thinking if I was ever pregnant I think I would be so afraid of ever hurting someone affected by infertility that id hide my pregnancy !! I feel id definitely not share it with friends as I wouldn't expect them to be happy for me as I'm never happy for them 😢
Oh how id love a mini me too Juliet, someone to pour all my love into and to teach them and help them learn from all my mistakes !!! What's the point otherwise, its pretty much what we were born to do !!! 
I think if you set up a company like that you were be very wealthy but so stressed 😅😅😅. You never know though it would be an amazing service if you never had to see them again !!
I hope everyone has a great weekend pity we don't live nearer so we could all meet up ☺ It would be the ultimate venting session !!
enjoy the vino Juliet xx
Tlk soon everyone ☺☺☺
ps the first thing I heard when I woke this morning on the radio was that Jessica Biel was pregnant but she had been trying for a long time .....for once I wasn't as annoyed about a famous pregnancy annoument ...all her money and she still struggled 😐😐


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## Scorpy (Oct 2, 2014)

Hi everyone,
Just a quite reply EmptyDreams I know what you mean about Jessica Biel, you do tend to think celebrities would have access to all the experts and have the money to try and try etc more than us...I watch the Real Housewives of Miami and Lisa Hotchenstein, she's super healthy, I think she's even a qualified nutritionalist, no stress - _not that you can see on TV anyway doing nothing but shopping all day in her mansion_(!) and yet she has realllllly struggled, I kinda looked at her and thought wow its nothing to do with money and experts really? I keep Googling her name to hopefully see that she's got pregnant but that day hasn't arrived yet 
Apparently there was also documentary about a celebrity going through IVF recently I can't recall whom it was but Id like to give that a watch?


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Hi ladies, I just read empty dreams comment on if you are ever pregnant would you try and hide it.  I just had a lengthy chat about this with my dh as we feel exactly the same. I think by going through all this heart ache it really makes you a better person in terms of realising people maybe putting on a brave face but nobody knows what other people are going through behind closed doors. I know I am really sensitive to other people now whereas perhaps people who have not been through anything like this tend to be oblivious and dare I say a little self centred.

If I am ever successful i wouldn't announce it to anyone especially at work as after a bit of time it will be obvious anyway! I also would be afraid to buy anything baby based until I had my baby in my arms as I have read so many sad sad situations on here where you just cannot take anything for granted at any point in time.

I hope everyone is well today. You are all making my very jelous with your puppy talks, I want one!!!


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys ☺☺
Im so going to google that lady Scorpy, to see someone without any constraints struggle is kind of liberating 😅. It just shows sometimes life is out of our control, one of the kardashians was affected too so when those who have it all struggle maybe we should give ourselves a break !!
Yeah I agree Alotbsl we are so much more perceptive of others emotions , I also see sadness in peoples eyes and most of the time see it as something I must try to fix with either a chat or a compliment or failing all a bit of chocolate !! But I do deeply feel that I will never push my happiness onto another if the day ever arrives that I become pregnant. And God yeah I wouldn't believe it unless I physically had a little baby in my arms !!! I had an even madder thought if I had twins I thought how lovely would it be to let another woman adopt one as I couldn't dream to wish for more than one but if I could ease another's suffering how amazing would that be !! Now this is fantasy dreamland stuff !!!! Iv no eggs and here I am pretending to pop out twins and then give one away lol !!! How overactive is my imagination !!
Was that documentary about a girl Julianna something from the E channel  Maybe you mean a newer show ☺
We had a locum in work today a new girl id never met , shes 36 married and no kids, as the day went on she said few things like how she hated baby talk in her other job and as we chatted about all sorts I was telling her how an older colleague said to me one day that "how was I tired as she used to do fulltime too but she had a proper home to attend to with kids " the new girl said id punch her clean in the face if she spoke to me like that !!! She then said "does she not know somepeople can't have kids " ....I was like Omg I love you please stay forever !!!! Without either of us saying it aloud I think we both just knew !!!
enjoy your evenings guys
Maria xxxx
ps get a puppy Alotbsl ☺☺☺


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## Scorpy (Oct 2, 2014)

Hey Emptydreams - Oh yeah Id forgotten about Khloe Kardashian struggling too, although I've recently seen some mags saying she is pregnant for some reason I find it really unlikely without any official announcement from her etc - just imagine if this was the media stirring up false gossip, knowing what she's going through and especially having 2 sisters with children etc that must be so difficult and whats more sad is watching that show you can just see what a fantastic mother she would and hopefully will be.


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

It took me over four months to build up to that emptydreams; he was three weeks old before I could even post a card through the door for him, I avoided his Christening and used to pretend that I hadn't seen them coming and go back inside if they were coming down the street so I didn't have to see him.  I really think I've had a breakdown, started when I walked out of work and haven't been back since.  I fell apart and am, I think!!, slowly starting to be put back together.  The saddest thing was that when I held him though, the 'feeling' had gone though.  As I said I've been around babies forever and used to have that lovely feeling whenever I held them, even as a teenager. It feels like that part of me has died though and I wonder if it will ever come back.  I hope so. My neighbour is a lovely person and a great mother but it was hard listening to her complaining about being pregnant, obviously she doesn't know anything about my struggles; the overweight/drinking/smoking issues were only issues for me as my consultant had made such a big deal about me gaining weight; and my whole life was on hold as a result, ie no drinking, no meals out etc.

I agree too girls, I think this does make us more aware.  I'm also thinking about how I would manage my own news, it's made me a lot more aware.  I've been open on ******** this week for awareness week but usually have said nothing, I've been surprised at the number of private messages I've had from people that I would never have suspected had issues.  Others have driven me to distraction with their comments designed to 'help' even though they're variations of the very things I'm posting in the 'things not to say'!  

I feel exactly the same as you Juliet, I get told I don't look my age either.  I don't act it either, that's because I haven't got children I think, how ironic.  I have a friend who was pregnant at 17 and feel she is soooooo old in comparison to me it's frightening.  Me and my best friend are the only ones without children (her through choice) and we stand out in our group as the big kids!

And I want the 'mini me' too.  Lots of my family have remarked over the past few years (since SD has been in my life) that they are freaked by how much she's like me, with her mannerisms particularly.  I used to love people saying it and still do to a certain extent, but now it's tinged with a little bit of hurt when they say it too because I think if I can love her this much what will it be like with my own?!  She loves me calling her my daughter (I do only to family) but I have to always be careful of not overstepping the mark, she has a mother and nobody will ever take her place. I want to be that important to someone who means the absolute world to me.

My colleague is due any time now I think emptydreams so I'm safe to return to work once I've healed.  I still wonder if I really am as healed as I think I am emotionally though.  I cannot believe how much this has affected me, I thought I was made of much stronger stuff than this, cracking as soon as I did and with comparatively so little bad happening for me compared to so many others, on ff particularly, has been a huge shock for me.  I'm not sure I can face going back to work, I feel ashamed that I have been pulled so far down by this.  That's how I'm so in awe of how you're managing to stay put with your colleague in your face emptydreams; full credit to you! I feel too like, you know if you quarrel with someone and are afraid to make the first move, that's how I feel with work, I've been off so long I'm really embarrassed about being around people who know why I've been off.  I feel weak and silly sometimes and at others berate myself for thinking that.  My life as I envisaged may never be (am too afraid to say is gone as don't want to accept that yet), I am grieving that, why wouldn't I be!  But then other things come into my head.  All of you are struggling with this yet are in work. My boss was recently diagnosed with breast cancer, has had her op, her treatment and is back in work already, yet here I still am.  

I'm not moping about any more and am feeling a lot more positive but really don't know if I can face going back.  Am I really ready to work with people who are at risk of having their children removed from their care, people who have children without any physical problems/complications at all?  I have until next week to figure that out I guess!

Anyway, sorry for the doom and gloom and lack of personals.  Hope everyone is having a nice relaxing Sunday.  I've had a lovely one eating chocolate and cuddling with SD watching Disney.  Who says all teenagers are horrible!?!    to you all xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey Miss Mayhem ☺☺☺
I wanted to write to you before I fell asleep as I wanted to say don't for one second doubt your choice to leave work. Honestly this thing tears you apart from the inside out and literally reshapes you as a person. Being in work is just too much at times and I really don't know why I haven't taken time off, my doctor said  she would leave it up to me to decide and would write me out and god I really wanted to , id had enough and my hatred towards my pregnant colleague was escalating by the second.  She was like a bad smell that wouldn't go away !!!
I desperately wanted to leave work and I think the only reason I didn't was that I couldn't admit to myself it was a problem, what you did was the right thing to do, you gave yourself time to heal the rawness of it all.
I probably have just bottled it up which isn't good, my temper is really bad, I can loose it really easily and always feel slightly vexed by stupid things that really don't matter.
So don't doubt yourself for one second , it takes a hell of a lot of braveness to admit that you needed a break and its a very proactive move. Me staying in work is just something I feel is keeping some normality in my life.
Also I must admit I do shop a little too much and its much easier to not have to rely on kieran for money 😅😅 he told me the other day he thinks I shouldn't spend so much on getting my eyebrows done !!!!! Safe to say he won't try that one again 😠😠😠
Cherish your sd because to her you are a way cooler mum figure and undoubtedly she ll come to you with issues as she grows, things she may not say to her mum ☺
In terms of heading back to work hold your head high, you are a warrior to survive this and as a result made of much better and tougher stuff that most of your colleagues xx
Off to bed as I'm wrecked and the dog is snoring so loud who knows if il even sleep lol !!!
Tlk soon
Maria xxxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Morning all...I wrote a long message yesterday and my laptop died so it vanished.  I didn't have the strength to write it all again.

Reading your posts this morning though, Miss Mayhem, not ever should you think you are less of a person because you needed to leave work.  Again, not to belittle your colleague, but there is hope in her treatment and for any of us, whilst we are going through IVF treatment, that hope keeps us going.  The minute there is no hope, it takes an incredibly strong person to keep going and they are few and far between.  You are stronger for admitting how you feel and just simply coping.  Getting out of bed each day is a huge hurdle and the fact that you have done that and managed another day is a credit to you.

Maria, I too have developed a horrible temper.  I snap at the slightest thing.  I was always such a happy, sociable, bubbly person and I am now a shadow of my former self.  I prefer not to have too many friends, so many have let me down, I don't try to make new ones because I can't bear any more emotions.  I get so cross with DH for simply leaving his shoes in the hall...anything can make me angry.

I had a sad weekend.  It was good to start, lots of shopping, but something small, in a pushchair got my attention and gave me the most beautiful smile and that was it for me.  Tears in town, back home and more tears.  Not just for the baby I didn't have, but I was so upset about my lovely old dog too!!  Awful.  We have her ashes upstairs and we were going to scatter them in the sea - her favourite place - but having her here, but not here, is much more painful.  I wish we'd not had her back from the vet.  I just feel as you get older, if you don't have the focus of a child, your life seems like one big loss.  Parents get older and more doddery, friends dwindle, jobs aren't as exciting...I seem to spend so much time wishing for the old days.  When my parents were my age, they were having such fun with their children, their siblings and all my cousins.  We were very lucky.

Anyway, it's so good to have you all here.  It's such a relief to be able to feel like this and know I won't get that bored look on your faces!!

xxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi Juliet ☺☺☺☺
Im sorry you had a sad weekend, I was actually thinking of you from time to time over the weekend and I was hoping you were having fun, I suppose thats the terribly reality of this that the pain can attack out of the blue at any stage and anywhere. Iv learned that this timing is beyond our control so many things iv planned and they were all destroyed by stupid untimely periods or babies in strollers or just anything that triggers the tears 😢.
I must admit I was worried thinking about your dogs passing and how on top of this all it could engulf you at any stage. 
One thing iv read is that the human brain does a thing called "pattern matching " which basically means any sad thought can be linked to another sad thought  often a worse thought in our brains, for example shoes left in the hall may remind us of a bad argument we have had in the past so suddenly our brain escalates the emotional feelings.  So quite often we are simply overwhelmed 😢.
Juliet your doggy had the best life with you .All we have control over is the quality of the years not the quantity of years . You bringing home your dogs ashes was your final duty and I know its beyond hard but do as you said and set her ashes free in her favourite place xxx . You will feel better to have fulfilled this ☺
Im always here to chat and far from boring I love logging on here to read the replies (my other friends are a bit boring in comparison lol !!)
So  chin up Juiet ☺what you say is right about life lacking a direct purpose without kids but you are too wonderful a person  to stay down so you will fight another day, just look into your puppy's eyes you to them are the whole world. 
Big hugs
Maria xxxx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Hi everyone, and emptydreams and juliet thank you both for your kind words.  You talk about unknown triggers emptydreams, kind words even can be one, I cried reading both of your responses earlier.  I know exactly what you're both saying and if it were someone else saying what I'm saying I know I would give them the same advice.  I have a tendency to be my harshest critic though and still can't shift the feeling.  I'm from a family of women who are strong, who shake themselves off and just get on with things, and here I am off work forever.  They are talking about cutbacks in our office so we are going to have to apply for our own jobs, I'm guessing that that's going to mean me out as I've been off for so long.  My job has coincided with my IVF journey and my sickness record is appalling, it was always so good before.  Part of me is wondering if it is now even worth going back, going through the stress of having to face everyone's pitying looks only to then have to find another job in a few weeks; am wondering whether I'd be better opting for pastures new.  My colleagues have stopped contacting me, I wonder if they think I should get a grip by now or maybe my bland responses to them have discouraged them, I mean what am I supposed to say when they ask 'how are you doing?'.  People are rarely interested in the honest answer, cue the 'bored looks' Juliet.  I don't know, I have a few more days to figure it out at least.  But, thank you both for your support.

I'm so sorry to hear you had a tough weekend Juliet.  You sound like such an amazing woman that (please don't take this in the wrong way) it's almost a relief to hear that someone like you struggles sometimes. You both have echoed my feelings so many times that just the association of feeling sometimes similarly to you makes me feel better, if that makes sense.  The emotion is always there, I can just visualise this little thing catching your eye. I worry that I have no emotional response to babies any more.

The pain of losing your dog must be overwhelming even though you have your gorgeous little puppy.  My girl is 13 now and sometimes when walking I fill up, worrying at what I would do without her.  I agree with emptydreams that when you get around to fulfilling her final wishes, as emotional as that will be, it may help a little.  You will know she is around in her happiest of places, and is free, that she had a wonderful life with you and even at the very end you did your absolute best for her.  That's the only drawback of loving something so much, animal or human, is that it is devastatingly painful when we lose them. You will know when it is the right time for you to do this for her.   

I had a visit from my best and oldest friend today. I love her dearly but, unless there are a few bottle of wines in the mix, emotion is not really her bag.  And so I go and do my biggest blub in a long while in front of her!  She looked so uncomfortable bless her but, credit to her, she didn't try to fix me, she just allowed me to be.  It was a stark reminder though that none of the pain of this has actually gone anywhere.  I've been reading a book (Rocking the Life Unexpected) and had stopped at a certain point as I got angry with the author, she was at the point of moving on and formulating a Plan B. I'm not ready to do that yet. The emotion is as raw as it ever was. 

My temper has gone, thank goodness, it was awful there for a while.  For me, that was linked with putting a brave face on things, concealing how bad I was really feeling.  I was raging inside and it wasn't long before the rage was coming out.  DH and I have just got to the two week mark without arguing, it's a massive achievement for us and only serves to highlight how bad I was.  I was hurting and he took the full brunt of that, sometimes deservedly so but not always by any stretch.

Anyway, I'm rambling and don't want to be too gloomy, am trying to keep my emotions a little more balanced.  Love to you both and   to everyone. xx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey Maria and Miss Mayhem, you know, you are lovely people!!  Maria, you made me cry!!  And Miss Mayhem, I too feel grateful when I hear of others not being quite so strong.  It's nothing bad to feel that, it makes you feel not alone and I really do feel I have friends on here.

One day I hope we can all meet up.  It would be so nice to put faces to all your kind words!

I am now off to puppy training but wanted to thank you for being so supportive and just so nice.  Never a bored look.


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## Scorpy (Oct 2, 2014)

Just scanning through posts but wanted to say Hi everyone!  
MissMayhem how are you feeling about work now? It was my first day back today and I feel worse than I thought I just do not want to go on normally at the moment. My sick record is bad too so any IVF on top of that is going to send my guilty feeling into overdrive! 
This journey has shockingly totally changed my perception on 'money' and happiness....money was so important to me and my happiness now my perspective is changing!


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys ☺ ☺
My silly phone just deleted my whole message !!! Hey Juliet I hope puppy training goes well , I bet he's a bundle of love and energy ! My neighbour also has one its very funny he can't keep up with him 😅😅. 
I would so love for everyone to meet , I think it would be so cool to have a face to go with the names, lets hope someday we can and I agree I feel we are all great friends on here ☺
How was work Scorpy ?? I feel everyone is very hard on themselves about absence, to be honest bosses rarely appreciate people forcing themselves to come in everyday, we are all replaceable but equally you must put your health first . Iv not really missed any days but for what ?? My boss doesn't care that im forcing myself in everyday. A month ago I bought these stupid slimming teabags and I had to ring in as I couldn't get off the toilet !! (Never ever again ), but when I rang in he treated me as if I did it everyday so you know what put yourself first, they are employers not friends so they come second, jobs come and go but happiness and health are far superior. 
I was thinking we should all try doing something small to help us feel better , anything at all ,for me I'm going to start jogging again but it could be anything, we should try for a while and see if it helps, reading walking anything (drinking wine doesn't count lol )☺what do ye think ?? A distraction for our brains 😅
I really love that we all have this place to chat and simply be friends xxxx  
Big hugs to everyone !
Iv been off on hols for 3 days I bet il be back to the miss down in the dumps  tmr once iv to face the dreaded miss bump. 😬 Who knows what tmr holds !
tlk soon everyone ☺


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Morning all, Scorpy, I'm so sorry your first day back was awful.  It feels like you're trying to run through mud doesn't it?  You were very brave to even go back.  Maria is right, bosses are not your friend and will treat you like rubbish whether it's one day or twenty days you have off.  If you can't cope, just don't. Look forward to home time and grit your teeth in between, but it's never giving in to accept you can't do it.  You have to heal in your own way.

Maria, my first thought was wine when you suggested that!!!  You are right.  One little thing to make us happy, however small.

Lots of


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## Scorpy (Oct 2, 2014)

Thanks guys   Emptydreams - it is a shame we don't all live in the same area as id love to have someone to start jogging or getting out there with! We would all make a big group of joggers!


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

morning all, so where do we all live, are we that far apart?
I always thought a good thread would be a list or map of where everyone lives so if you want to meet up you can.

I'm in Surrey, anyone near?


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

I'm in Cork in Ireland , I really wish  we were nearer ,I can just imagine it now ,all out jogging and then stopping at a wine bar lol !!!!  Lycra and wine and lots of venting 😅😅😅😅
One thing I found that helped me was popping in my ipod and just running or trying to at least ! It blocked the world out for me in a way and I go in the evenings so no babies around ! One night I went it rained so much and yes being Irish this shouldn't be a surprise but it just poured down and it was crazily soothing in a way 😅😅😅. I think exercise even a small walk clears the head a bit.
On another note my periods are going mad !!! Because iv almost no ovarian reserve I don't know what to think , its 40 days since my last period and im def not pregnant 😢😢 I feel its a cruel trick of my body really , last yr I got to 34 days and it was crushing so I didn't even dream of getting my hopes up ...... is this normal ?? Is it the start of the menopause ?? I can pop to doctor for blood tests but I'm pretty sick of bad news from doctors and sick of paying money for them to tell me it 😐😐
Why are our bodies so cruel  I was even annoyed I did a test as I knew it would be negative 😢😢
I hope everyone is well and lets all start saving to meet up and have a well deserved laugh ....I know now ye are all dying to come jogging in the rain in Ireland but I'm open to all suggestions !!😅😅😅


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

The last time I jogged was to try and catch a runaway puppy as it crossed the road heading for home!!  I'll keep the wine company, you can all job!

It seems we're all far apart - I'm in Kent!  But I shall raise a glass to you all tonight.

Maria, definitely go and see your GP or even if you have a nurse practitioner.  I've always had good experiences with them - better still book a double appointment so that you can talk a little as well as have your 5 minute diagnosis.  If it's the menopause, best to know now.  If not, again, you need to find out so you're not hoping or worrying.

Have a good evening all!! 

xxx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Hey everyone, nice to see the updates, so many though apologies if I miss any of you. I've never jogged in my life, always claimed I was too 'well-endowed' to spark up a run of any sort!  Must admit though all your talk of it is making me jealous, I feel like I am missing out on something! I think I have a bit of an addictive streak to my personality but, alas, getting addicted to exercise or dieting has never been one of my strengths! I'm still with you though *emptydreams/maria*, Ireland all the way, particularly West Cork and Kerry, absolutely beautiful. Once we're all mothers and actually have a penny to spare we should come en masse! Wouldn't that be great?! Or maybe not, for the other locals!  Silly question as you may have said it ages back, but, have you had your AMH tested? They reckon that's a better indicator of ovarian reserve that FSH. Mine is low but normal for my age. It's frightening when you think menopause is approaching; and it's awful when you're late and refuse to get your hopes up, don't know about you but on the few occasions that's happened to me, I still feel crushed despite myself.

*Scorpy* how are you getting on in work now? Am sorry it was tough for you going back. I agree with Juliet, you were very brave to do it, braver than me, I've still not managed it, not at the minute anyway. I hope you're feeling a little better, if not, have a rethink and see if you can prioritise yourself. I know that's rich coming from me as I feel so guilty being off, but at least I'm not having serious outbursts any more, and that's because I'm calmer from not having to stress about work and having to deal with pregnancy being shoved in my face.

How are you getting on *Juliet*? Did you decide on your girl's resting place yet? Such emotional times.  I echo what you say about feeling that we really make friends on here. I have never been able to write something where everyone responds so warmly and empathetically. I sometimes read comments on random websites in response to articles and people can be, not just cutting and ignorant, but deliberately cruel with their responses. Here, it feels you can be your uncensored self without fear of being verbally attacked. I've just posted on another thread I post to regularly about coping with IF as a stepparent and can trust people to be honest if they disagree with me but know that, even then, it will be done with respect and sensitivity. I'm really struggling this weekend as stepdaughter's mother has told her she can go on a school trip, that's going to cost upwards of £1100 so is now looking to us for our share. She doesn't even work; to say I'm furious, and scared senseless to be honest, is an understatement.  But, as I say, I'm hoping that some of my friends on that post will be able to put me straight if I'm in the wrong and help me gain a bit of objectivity; either way, I know they will at the very least understand.

And that's the thing, we have a bloody raw deal with all of this (another understatement, _you_ all know what I'm trying to say, but I think the majority of us have developed true understanding of each other. I sometimes wonder whether it is simply the shared experience of the pain that we go through that creates that, or whether we each have some of these innate qualities anyway. I read posts from so many loving, compassionate, bright women I sometimes wonder whether life gives us an 'either/or' in as far as you can't have all those qualities AND get to be a mother at the same time. But then I think of my own wonderful mother, she got both, and some of the other women on here are mothers after a struggle so I know that's not the case. It just seems so unfair doesn't it, we've so many qualities that would make us wonderful parents. As much as we all pray to God we didn't have to experience it, means we are able to be here for each other in ways that few others can be.

*Alotbsl*, am glad to hear that you're recuperating nicely and look forward to your update. You can gather all of our destinations and map a route to get us to the ferry port to Ireland, I always think a ferry over is a fundamental part of the journey. We can do a sponsored jog to Cork to emptydreams/maria and then take the county hostage!  God, can you imagine us all! Was there not someone on here a while back who was from Ireland also?

Sorry, I'm rambling, it's late but am still nocturnal following my sleepless night in hospital! Hope you're all doing OK, and hope your friends came good for you in the end maria.

Hugs to you all  , fingers crossed for a good week for all of us. xxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Morning all, and morning Miss Mayhem - as usual I'm in a rush to go to work but I read your post it touched me so I wanted to say thank you!  I think we spend a lot of time focussing on what we don't have, but we do all seem to be able to share and understand each other's upheavels and those qualities must count for something.

I'm so sorry about your SD's trip and the money you will have to come up with.  That's such a pressure to have to constantly have that control taken away from you.  It must be hard not to get cross with everyone involved, such a difficult situation.  I hope you get some good advice from your other thread.

We've decided where will will take our beautiful old girl's ashes, down to Camber Sands to her favourite place on earth.  She was a real water-baby and the sea was just the best thing in her life.  But DH very much doesn't want to to it yet and I'm with him on that.  Whilst it upsets me having her here in a little box, the thought of losing her again is too much as well.  One day we'll do it, but for now she's safely with us.

It's good to hear from you, thank you for your ramblings and I hope your weekend was a good one.

xxxx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Morning ladies, I have just got off the phone to my clinic about where I go from here, tubes are now sorted, and my frosties are waiting. The news was good, basically if I am ready and my period starts before the end of November I will have time to have a cycle this side of xmas.

So why am I having a major wobble, as soon as I put the phone down I burst into tears. Why am I crying? Why am I having awful thoughts? Why am I now  questioning everything we have been through im the last 4 years?

Does anyone else worry how their live will change, what happens if it changes for the worse, what happens if it's not the idilic picture I imagine it to be? DH and I are so happy as we are why do we want to risk changing things? 

It doesn't help that I read somewhere that using frozen eggs increases the chance of abnormalities.

Apologies if my ranting upsets anyone as I know we are so lucky to be in a position to give this another shot anyway.


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Awww *Alotbsl*    for you! I was going to do an automatic 'Congratulations!' and then read further, proof that even those of us who understand can still sometimes take each others' reactions for granted. I'm not in your position in the frostie sense but know that this whole thing is so huge emotionally it would be more strange if we didn't have wobbles along the way. I guess if we'd been lucky enough to get pregnant naturally along the way we would have had thoughts and fears, 'will my baby be healthy?', 'will I be a good mother?, 'will it change our relationship?', 'how will we cope with x y z?'; the list is endless even then so I guess in a situation where there have been so many obstacles thrown in our way we have even more time to weigh up all the probabilities. My DH dropped a clanger the other day that he wanted me to go for DE as he was worried about the risk of Down's; I've been aware of the risk of it since I did GCSE Child Dev a few (ahem!) years ago! He'd only just thought of it, but for us we're weighing up things like this all the time. I guess it's kind of similar to the difference between the end of our lives being planned as we have an illness or going suddenly (morbid analogy I know, sorry) but what I mean is, it's sometimes hard to toss up which is better/worse. I think what I'm trying to say, in a very clumsy way, is that I think it's natural to have wobbles and worries along the way, even at the height of positivity we have a lot of fear running in the background. These times are exciting, yes, but that doesn't always make them less scary. Just think of us as weebles, they may wobble but they don't fall down. Talk to DH when he comes home, with you being as happy as you are I'm sure that he can give you the reassurance you need and a nice big cuddle at the same time. And don't forget you're not long out of surgery either, that's emotionally taxing in itself. Be kind to yourself, do something nice for you and let us know how you are later.   for you and  that everything goes to plan for you.

PS I also spoke to a professor recently who said that freezing techniques are now so advanced that there is hardly any difference between frosties and freshies, backed up here look:

_The success rates of an FET cycle are nearly the same as fresh IVF cycles and have the same primary indicator for success - the maternal age at the time of embryo freezing. Many patients wait several years between the initially freeze of their embryos and attempting a subsequent FET cycle. Any patient no matter the amount of time between embryo freezing and thawing, can expect nearly the same potential for success as they experienced with the fresh IVF cycle, which the frozen embryos came from. Patients can rely on the same chances of success because frozen embryos are suspended in time and do not age. _
http://www.shadygrovefertility.com/newsletter/frequently-asked-questions-about-frozen-embryo-transfers

And PPS, stay away from Google for the rest of today, tomorrow, the next da....!  xx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Thank you so much for your heart felt reply miss mayhem that really helped and I am feeling better now. I think it was the shock and realisation that I could soon be heading back into it all again. I just remember getting so down after my BFN and im scared to feel that depressed again.


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey Alotbsl, you're doing exactly what I did when I was told I had an egg donor.  I had been waiting for months and when one was offered to me, both DH and I looked at each other and couldn't hand on heart say yes.  So we said no.  Even worse, we changed our minds and called back to say yes.  THEN, even more hideously, we called again, said no and then said we need a counsellor and fast.  I can honestly say our emotions were all over the place.  He started worrying about how old he was, could we afford it, what if the baby wasn't 100% perfect, what if it hated us when it was 18......  in the end we had to sit with the clinic counsellor and she took all our worries and dealt with them one by one, rather than us piling all the problems that could possibly happen altogether.

She was ever so good.  She took the normal worries - will it be healthy, will it hate us, etc and put them to one side.  Those would happen regardless of whether we were going through IVF.  Unfortunately for us we have had to think about everything, whereas someone who fell pregnant naturally doesn't have that 'choice'.  As Miss Mayhem has said, it's natural to worry, but we have more time to do it.

Our counsellor also said to us to try not to think of the years of bringing up a child and the changes it will bring and rather think of the first year.  Could you keep it warm, well fed and loved?  We both said of course!!  And so she said good, can you do that for the first 5 years?  Again, we said yes.  And that's where she stopped.  She said, after that you simply don't know what will happen, you will learn as your child grows, in exactly the same way as any other parent.  As long as you can see that the minute you get one, you will love it and look after it, then thinking beyond that is over-thinking.  That's what we do, we think of all the awful things that could happen when we can't possibly know.  As for you and DH being so happy, we thought that too.  What if it ruins us? But I think any change at any time of life can throw you out of kilter, but the fact that you are so happy makes you a strong unit and one that can get through the changes.  Who knows what will happen, in that respect, you are the same as any couple facing life together.  It just feels that we are bringing something on ourselves as we are choosing to try to create a life, rather than it just happening.  You two have come so far, I think that is something amazing to hold on to.

Miss Mayhem, how do you feel about DE?  I managed to get my head around it quite quickly once I was told my reserve was at a standstill.  But I still needed to try with my own first.  Again, it's such a tough choice and one most women don't make - many older women get pregnant and have perfectly healthy babies..... 

Nothing is easy is it?  I think we should all stay away from google, good advice Miss Mayhem!  There's always a scare story to match something positive and sometimes it's just best not to know.

   to you all, I hope things are feeling a little brighter. x


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys ☺☺
Thats great news Alotbsl !!!! As everyone said it's only natural to panic as we are so emotionally battered and broken by all of this  😢. I totally understand your fear I'm afraid to do anything at the moment and I'm just sticking my head in the sand .
My pregnant colleague left work last Thursday and I was so so happy but this morning she was back and iv plummeted back to a very dark place 😢. I could barely muster a sentence together today and I felt physically sickened by her being near me, my periods being 43 days this time sure didn't help either . Everytime I'm a few feet away from her she starts whispering baby stuff and then I'm afraid to turn the corner as it abruptly stops, I was putting stuff down the safe today and she started I just stayed sitting on the floor after id the safe done as I just felt awful, one of the guys I work with asked me if I was ok and I realised what an idiot I must of looked like 😢😢😢 hiding because I couldn't take the whole crappie awkward silence once I turned the corner.
I went for a jog and I did double the distance just to push myself beyond what I could do , I wanted to force myself or punish myself who knows.
Sorry guys I just feel so empty and low again 😢


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

I can't remember now but someone asked me about my amh, I had all the tests done and I think my result was 1 !!!!!!! Imagine that a 99 year old lady wouldn't be as rubbish as I am 😢😢😢😢


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Forgot to say that I totally agree with you Miss mayhem maybe you can't have both because the more friends I have that have become pregnant the more I see their not so nice sides, and in contrast everyone on here is so nice and kind, my friends have still not acknowledged that they told my secret to someone I categorically had told them not to tell , I text them both and in a very gentle message explained how hurt I was , an apology I thought would surely follow and then I would of moved on but instead I got none !!!!!!  Neither apologised instead they said we should go for dinner !!! I don't know if il bother with them again if they don't apologise why should I ??
Ok off to bed feeling cross and sad 😢


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Morning ladies, I'm feeling better today. thank you again for stopping me slipping into a black hole. Missmayhem your weeble comment has really hit a cord and makes perfect sense and makes me laugh. I will just think of that now if I have a bad moment.

julietp , Thank you as your reply helped a lot. I am also using donor eggs and remember how devistated I was when I was first told but I can honestly say I am 100% comfortable with it now. 

Empty dreams dont feel bad about your amh score as I beat yours hands down lol, at 33 was told I had undetectable AMH, was something like 0.1. Please don't feel bad about work, you do whatever it takes to keep yourself sane as for your friends they probably don't see it as a big secret they have let out as most people don't see infertility as a big deal, until they have to deal with it!

I think a big part of coming to terms with using de for me was that I went ahead and paid for a private OE cycle at my clinic, I had months and months on egg producing drugs and went ahead with just one viable folicle, sadly on egg collection my one folicle was empty ( no surprise there). My clinic were very straight with me all along the way about the chances of success. although such a waste of money ( which is still being paid off on credit cards) I really feel i had to do it just so I could shut the Own egg door for good and move on with no regrets or thoughts of what if...?


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys ☺☺☺
Thanks so much for the kind words it really, really is the only time I feel someone understands 💓. My colleague was off today again so I was instantly fine !! I laughed all day and felt very calm. Who knows what tomorrow holds  though 😐😐
I think what is annoying me lately is how awfully people deal with what we are going through. They really don't have a clue😠 if I ever win the lotto I promise to give all my friends on here enough money to make their dreams come through, I just wish money wasn't another factor that people had to deal with. Im lucky that we have savings to try with but im so angry about the money iv lost so far I don't know if I can risk it again.  Id be afraid if I lost it all and I think that would be the final straw 😢. 
Also I feel that im sick of playing this game and I think like someone else said I wonder if I did hold a baby would I just feel numb to it all ? Was that you Miss mayhem ?? I thinks its happening though as babies are beginning to irritate me now instead !! 
I think your Sd's mom is very very selfish to expect ye to pay for the trip ! Does she know your circumstances? ? If she does I would be so cross !! How dare she put that financial burden on you if she knows that you need money for treatments !!!! If she has one trip that should be enough, it comes down to her putting her plan's above yours and thats wrong..... don't we have enough to contend with without others selfishness 😢.
In relation to donar eggs I also would now be 100 % happy as it would be the only realistic way I could become a mother. I wish you every success Alotbsl xxxx our little group could do with some good luck at this stage 💗💗💗💗. Keep us posted about how things are going ☺☺
Tlk soon guys xxxx 
god I wish we lived nearer so much !!!!!


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

So glad you've had a good day *emptydreams* and know what you mean about this being the only place where people really, really understand. I may start doing the lottery myself and would do the same for you girls if I could! 

I suspect SD's mother knows, she knows so is bound to have told her. Her staple response to anything though is 'not my problem' so she wouldn't care one bit anyway! Apart from the obvious worry of how on earth we would manage this the worst part is knowing her mother hasn't worked for years so won't be funding a penny of it! Infuriates me how she just expects others to foot the bill every single time! 

Hope the rest of you girls are having a nice evening. If treatment weren't so expensive we could meet up irrespective of where we live. You never know, one day maybe!  xxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey everyone ☺☺
Miss Mayhem she sounds so selfish !! Especially if she doesn't work herself she shouldn't dare to put that pressure on you. If you can id say a flat out no as realistically your treatment should be paramount. I feel really bad you have to deal with that I think id get so cross with her expecting your husband to pay for everything , thats so much pressure 😐😐😐. She sounds a bit self centered really.
Im going to have an early night as im a bit zonked today lol ,
Lots of hugs to everyone xxxxx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Hi ladies, argh im back at work tomorrow after two weeks off so I will have to keep this short as need to get to bed.

Just wanted to say if I was in your position missmeyhem the trip to ny would be a definate no, how dare she agree something as huge as that without even talking to you. I think your SD will be fine as at that price I am sure a lot of her friends will not be going anyway. Such decisions need a little thought and planning.

Right my pillow is calling. Take care all.


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## pixie1230 (Aug 30, 2014)

Hi ladies,

  Sorry havent been writing for awhile, its just the same old stuff that is happening to me. Nothing exciting. Still waiting on my appointment on the 24th of nov to know whats the best decision for me. DH cousin is pregnant and they've seen the heartbeat of the baby, first try ICSI, and she is 36, so lucky, she knows what happened to me and started saying that maybe its not a good idea to update us with what is going on with her. Told her that it is definitely okay.  I am happy for her but at the same time i am jealous coz i was supposedly ahead of her for two weeks but now Oh well! Some people are just lucky that it worked for them. Anyway I've been obsess looking for other fertility clinics lately, and I've seen a clinic in athens, Greece called Serum. Explained to them my case and they are giving me hope at the moment. My doctor here in ireland said they dont want to do another laparoscopy or open surgery because they said it is going to be risky for me, since my bowel is stuck. On the other hand, Serum clinic is saying a different thing. They said they handled patients from the UK/Ireland who were told that they cant do more laps or open surgery due to adhesions but they were able to fix it. Might just need to take more time like 4 hours operation. And need to get an MRI scan for them to know whats going on inside me.  They sound like they really know what theyre doing. They have good reviews too. So it gives me hope at the moment that my case has a solution unlike here in Ireland were doctors just keep on telling me to try ivf eventhough they know that it might not work due to my hydros and endo. So i am thinking of giving it a shot i think. Just to exhaust all the things that I can do to make it work. I dunno i just have a really good feeling about this clinic. Anyway, thats all I can share ladies. What do you think? Will you risk it just to have a baby? Should i trust my instinct to try it? will be researching more. Gnyt ladies! You have a wonderful sleep!


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey ladies, so many replies since I was on here last!!  

Maria – I’m so sorry your colleague left then came back again.  That must have been a horrible feeling.  Such relief at her going and then all the old feelings resurfacing the minute she’s back.  I hope you are ok.  It’s bad enough to go through it at all but to feel that huge weight off your shoulders to not have your nose rubbed in it and for it to return is just awful.  I may have gone sick if I’d have been you.  I’m glad she’s gone again.  May that last!

Miss Mayhem – I’m a little squeamish about tattoos, but I can quite see why someone would do that.  I am a lover of all things sparkly and in my lighter moments have threatened to have DH turned into a diamond if he goes before me so that I can keep him with me and enjoy him at the same time!!  As for my old girl, I keep her collar in my handbag and I have her name tag on a chain.  She’s with me in some way every day.  I’m so sorry about your money worries, that’s one of the most unfair things about our situation.  So many things endlessly available on the NHS, but not this.  I too had to try with my own eggs first.  If I thought someone would treat me now I’d have another go – I can’t believe that my grandmother could have her last child at 45, but I can’t.  I find it so hard to believe that I have no more left to give and yet I feel half my age.  I want to stamp my feet and scream ‘but it’s not fair’.....

Alotbsl – how was your first day back at work?  I hope it wasn’t too gruesome and you managed to get through the day ok. 

Hey Pixie, good to have you back again.  Yes I’ve heard of Serum and it was recommended to me as well as a clinic in Spain.  I’m not sure what it is about the overseas clinics, but the impression I get is that they actually care.  I’ve heard many good things about them.  All I can say is read as much as you can on here about them because here you get people’s actual experiences and will get a real feel for how you will be treated.  I don’t know enough to advise you, but I do know that I would certainly give it a go if I thought I would have any hope of success.

Someone mentioned AMH back on this thread and I think I top you all.  I do believe my AMH was 0.05 – I still produced 3 eggs and I got one beautiful embryo from that!!!  Who knows what our bodies are doing, but I still hope for something miraculous.

Anyway off to bed now.  I hope all has been better in your worlds today.

Goodnight xxx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Hi ladies how are we all doing? Am I the only one who has not started xmas shopping yet?, thank fully I don't have many people to buy for so I tend to make a last minute rush at it. I have treated myself and DH and booked a few nights in Bath to have a wander around the xmas markets, not until December but looking forward to it.

Well I survived my first couple of days back at work and to be honest I quite enjoyed being back and having people to talk to in the day. 

i have decided to leave all treatment until January, it will all be to much of a rush for me especially with xmas looming, getting hold of all the drugs I need ( geez I'm ganna be like a sieve with all the injections I need) also I want To have a endo scratch  before treatment, has anyway had this? 

I hope you are all enjoying your Sunday.


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hi Alotbsl, just a quick one as I'm at work!!  I did have the endo scratch yes, twice.  Sadly for me I didn't produce any eggs that time so we'll never know if it was a success.  I will say it was not the most pleasant experience but for me it was just uncomfortable rather than unbearable.  As I said to my nurse, I wouldn't have come back a second time if it was that bad.  Are you with SEFC by any chance?  Just wondering as you're near me!!

xxx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Hey Juliet, I'm at the Lister in London.
Have heard the endo scratch can be a little unpleasant, I haven't spoke to the nurses about it yet, how soon before treatment did you have it done?

Where abouts are you from?


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hi Alotbsl, I'm near Maidstone but the SEFC is in Tunbridge Wells.  I think I had the scratch about 2 weeks apart and the last one was maybe a week before ET - don't quote me on that, it was ages ago.  It is a bit unpleasant but for me it just felt like I had period pains as it was being done and then after for about an hour or two.  The second time I took pain killers before I went in and I had period pains for the rest of the day but they were nothing more than a normal monthly irritation.  I think my consultant was in a worse state than me by the time he'd finished!!  He really didn't enjoy doing it and looked pale and in need of hot sweet tea.  I was absolutely fine!
x


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Hey how is everyone?


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey Alotbsl, how are you?  Are you all ready for Christmas?  And how's everything?  I've been very up and down recently and saw this little thread had gone quiet so I check from time to time!  I hope you're ok. x


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Hey everyone, how are you all? Sorry to hear you've been up and down Juliet, hope you're feeling a little better at present. I've been awful too, went AWOL from here for a good while to have a little break but then had disaster times, again, with DH. Calmer now, we're still here, just. Am looking forward to Christmas though with my family and SD.

Just wanted to pop back to thank you all for your support over the months. In case I'm not back on here before, please have a wonderful, happy and contented time over the Christmas period. Hope you're all ready! I am apart from one thing but invariably end up spending silly money on other things I don't need whilst looking for the elusive last gift! 

Here's hoping that the new year brings us some all some joy and happy news. Hope you're all hanging in there and hope the cousin baby situation is a little more bearable for you *pixie* Take care and catch you in the new year maybe. Much love. Miss M xxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey Miss Mayhem, I'm so sorry to hear you've been having a horrible time.  I'm glad things are a bit calmer - Christmas is stressful enough without everything else we have to go through.  Wishing you and all the lovely ladies on here a very Happy Christmas and thank you too for all your support. xxx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Hi ladies, good to hear from all all. Hope your day went well and you are all having a rest. Roll on 2015 let's see what it brings us


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys ☺☺☺
Im sorry I went a little awol too.....I don't even know why but like everyone else on here just had ups and downs and downs 😅😅😅 it kinda feels normal to be sad lately but new years is not a time for negative thoughts so just to say iv missed all of you and I hope from the bottom of my heart we all have a better 2015 ☺☺☺lots and lots of love guys💗💗💗💗💗💗
Ps my new years is to log on more and stop my sticking my head in the sand phases 😅😅


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## pixie1230 (Aug 30, 2014)

Hello guys! Sorry havent been writing here for awhile. Hope everyone had a merry xmas and good new year! I am pushing myself not be negative at the moment but I couldnt help it. I am currently on DR, started december 18, went back to the clinic this week and for some reason, i may need to stop the cycle AGAIN I am on long protocol this time. It's weird because never heard anyone being stop on down regulation. Guess i am so unfortunate with this IVF thing. We'll need to go back there on monday and hopefully my lining got thinner 
Miss Mayhem, my husbands cousin is almost done on her first trimester. She is doing great and she message us from time to time and ask about my IVf story. Lol. Couldn't help to get jealous. I just dont feel like sharing it with my family at the moment coz everyone is expecting that its good news. One of my cousin even asked me if im pregnant already, and that I am just keeping it from them. She said i should take care of myself because she knows I am PREGNANT. Gosh! I wish I am!! Lol, its weird. 
Well i hope this year will be the year for us girls. Lets try to look forward and see whats 2015 going to give us. Wishing u a prosperous new year. Miss chattin with you ladies


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Welcome back ladies it's so good to hear from everyone, I was getting worried about you all! I hope the Xmas break did us all some good and yes you are right lets all be more positive for 2015.


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Morning all and a happy 2015!  I'm trying very hard to put a positive spin on everything this year - had a slight wobble on New Year's day when my cousin gave birth and I found out on ******** - I didn't even know she was pregnant!!  So after being a little cross with my family for not telling me, I drew myself up, congratulated my cousin and went out for a really long walk with DH and my puppy (now nearly 7 months and a complete thief!!).  I know my future won't change with regards to babies, but I am determined that good things will happen this year.  It's time isn't it?  Onwards and upwards!  xxx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Hi Juliet, bit of a low blow to take on New Years day but you did well with your cousins news.
What kind of dog do you have?  I am sadly pet- less at the moment and miss having something to cuddle (dh is sometimes willing lol).


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys ☺☺
Sorry to hear about new yrs Juliet.  Life does feel like walking on a thin sheet of ice sometimes with pregnancy anything attacking us from nowhere . Glad to hear your puppy is full of mischief !! They are our salvation some days ! And the best distractions ever also 
My colleague left early on maternity leave and im delighted in a way. She was beginning to drive me nuts with her belly rubbing and sitting down All day long antics. Im feeling particularly bitter if im to be honest,  she got some minor complication and ud swear she is dying. I want to never see her again as it sickens me with jealously.  She found out she may need a section and she is all stressed. ....I felt like shaking her what id give to hear the words "you may need a section !!"
I think my bitterness may be getting out of hand as I shut down anyone that speaks to me about her pregnancy or any other pregnancy at all. I have aggressively avoided all talk of her pregnancy with her and just change subject if she mentions it. I even think bad thoughts about her as im sick to the gills of her easy life.  The bitterness is flowing into my life in general im always on the attack like a coiled spring.  I can see this but I don't care at all and to be honest im willing to loose all friendships that contain pregnancy in order to protect myself.
Hope all is good with everyone and sorry for ranting but on here I can let it out 😧😧😧


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Empty dreams, I could have written that last part myself. Here's to looking after ourselves!


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Heya girls    to you all. Hope you're all well and hanging in there still.   xxx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Hello everyone, let's have an update on what you are all up to.

Me, well it's my birthday tomorrow so looking forward to going out to dinner but not looking forward to being a year older.


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

"Happy Birthday!!!" Alotbsl, you're still a young un yet, have a lovely day!!  xx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Happy Birthday Alotbsl!!!  I hope today is stress-free and full of presents and lovely things!!

Empty Dreams....at last she's gone.  May she be gone for a long, long time.  I agree totally with you - you don't need pregnant friends ever.  You need to be surrounded by people who have another outlook on life and can share you bitterness when you need!!  

I am rushing as ever to work now, but will hopefully catch up later.  Hang on in there girls xxx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Thanks missmeyhem and Juliet for the birthday wishes, I'm off to buy cakes for the office now. January birthdays are not good, trying to stick with the post xmas diet is a knight are.

Have a great day ladies, catch you later.


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## pixie1230 (Aug 30, 2014)

Happy birthday Alotsbl!!🎉🎊🎈
As for myself, i am on stimms at the moment, mood swings and headache, uggh!!
Will go back to the clinic tomorrow to see whats going on. Last time i had 8 follicles, 5 on the left and 3 on the right, unfortunately my left ovary is not accessible(just getting worst news everytime😔) So i am just relying on my right ovary, two of the three follicles is 10mm above and the other one is small. So i dunno what to do. I can just have two follies for this cycle. Not really hoping that this will be positive and this i my last NHS free go. I just dont want to be optimistic anymore as everything seems so bad in my case. Sorry for giving some negative feeling in here ladies. 
Anyway, hope your all having a great night.
It snowed here yesterday so it's massively cold outside. Uggh!


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Hi everyone, hope you're all well. Alotbsl give yourself permission to enjoy anyway, never mind the diets on special occasions! Can't see signatures when replying, did you say you're having FET this month? Something's happening for you so sending you   and  .

Pixie hope you're hanging in there! You don't need to apologise, it's really hard to get the balance between optimism and realism isn't it? My family were always going on and on at me to be positive and there is merit in that, but I had to be realistic too or any BFNs would have come out of the blue. Even when you think you're being realistic it floors you when it doesn't work, did me anyway. Got everything crossed for you. 

Let's hope this year is good to us all.xxx


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## pixie1230 (Aug 30, 2014)

Hi guys.
I think this is the end for me for trying to have a baby. Got cancelled again. This time i responded to the stimming. Had 8 follies on the left and 4 on the right. Then we found out left ovary is not accessible right ovary is okay, but not producing good eggs. I think this is the sign that I was asking for. Maybe have to accept that a child is not for us. I feel so so so miserable. I hope this is just a dream i feel like my life is a waste. I dont want to live anymore. This is it. End of my journey.


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey everyone ☺
Belated bday wishes Alotbsl! ! Hope you had a nice day and had some yummy cake. I'm on a 5 day juice diet which is fairly awful ...I had no interest but kieran is health obsessed so kinda got dragged into it lol 😅. So no takeaways or wine for the whole weekend !!! I might just sleep till Monday and order a Chinese for breakfast. I know healthy eating is good and I'm lucky enough that I don't really put on weight but any of my pregnant friends have awful diets and have no problems popping out babies. ...iv prob ranted about this before but my pregnant colleagues staple food is coco pops so eating healthy does get my back up as it didn't work for me !!! (I'm having major sugar withdrawal so I'm an awful grump)
Pixie I feel so bad for you,  iv been there and you feel so bad and so angry and shocked at your bodies failure to just do its part. All i can say is decisions won't be made overnight,  its been 18 months since my last failed ivf and I'm still doing a fantastic job at sticking my head in the sand.
We are all here for you xx
Juliet your echoing my thoughts I always feel like I'm rushing to work or somewhere. ....so over it really, I need to win the lotto 😅😅😅
Okay guys have a good weekend and eat and drink loads to make up for me !!
Positive thoughts for you all as ye are all so great and deserve this so much xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

On a positive I booked my holidays for June, its a lovely little house in west cork and its so rural and comfortable and best of all  I can bring my dogs !! I stayed there last year and loved it and as sad as it is I prefer bringing them than jetting off anywhere tropical. I have to go on a hen to Portugal which Kieran talked me into, I really didn't want to go as its school friends that I rarely see and mostly have kids but he told me that memories and holidays are the best things you can create.
It was funny though as I seem far more stressed about leaving my 2 dogs than they do about leaving their kids !!! They almost seem a bit frenzied at the chance of a break. And you know somedays it is nice to have that extra freedom. I know its a shallow comparison but I do notice my friends with kids are under huge pressure. Last week I went for lunch with my best friends and her 3 yr old daughter (the only child I can be around without getting upset ) and by the end of the day I was happy to escape her as she was very naughty lol ☺☺
Ps anyone a fifty shades of grey fan  I'm so excited about the movie 😅😅
Tlk soon guys ☺


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Lovely to see you back *emptydreams*. I'm with you on the anger of doing whatever you 'ought' while others pop babies out. My old consultant actually told me, to my face, that I was 'fat and too old' when I was 37 &, yes, overweight, so I beggared the question was that why I also never got pregnant when I was young and thin?! I've probably moaned about that before too!  I know also what you mean with your dogs, am always in a state leaving mine! Anyway, who wouldn't want to go to West Cork? Absolutely beautiful part of the world!

*pixie* I am devastated for you and feel your pain. As emptydreams said, we've all been in a similar place. That's little consolation to you at the minute, I know, but I say it to let you know that the rawness and anger you feel right now won't always feel quite as bad as it does at this minute. Someone told me that when I started to feel my life was over and I literally wanted to punch her out; didn't believe a word of it and thought I had my proof when I just started to feel worse and worse. But here, we are all in very similar boats so I hope you know I'm not trying to discredit your feelings in any way. I have tears in my eyes remembering how bad the place I went to was. I never thought I would come out of it, but, I did and my determination to be a mother is renewed _whatever_ form that takes. If you find you're still feeling like this after a few days, or even feeling worse please, please, please talk to people who love and care for you. I eventually erupted and told my mother the truth about how I REALLY felt, the ugly stuff that sometimes we only admit to ourselves. It was my absolute lowest point and her hearing what I said must have hurt her unimaginably. But, it was the best thing I have done as that became a pivotal point for me and now I am, nearly, back. Massive, massive hugs to you. Please take care of you and remember, as emptydreams said, we are here for you and we hear you.xxxxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Oh Pixie I'm so sorry....it is such an awful feeling for you and we all know exactly what you're going through.  MissMayhem, what a lovely thing you said at the end of your last post – you are so right, we do hear everyone on here and we truly feel the devastation that we all go through.  I thought I would never ever get over my last cycle and yet here I am today and there are days when I thank goodness I don’t have children, but I have my lovely, sweet, affectionate pup who is as naughty as ever.  But Pixie, it really does take time and I’m so sorry you have to go through this.

I had some strange news last week.  After our last cycle we were told DH’s sperm was the culprit and that there was more than a 99.9% chance that there was some genetic deficiency meaning there was no point in us ever considering a biological child again.  For peace of mind we ended up sending our last 2 samples to Ireland just before Christmas, I wanted to hear it loud and clear so that I could finally move on.  The results came back normal.  Our 8 beautiful embryos that died on day 3, with the eggs coming from a 25 year old donor with a child, did not die because of a genetic fault in DH’s sperm.  We were gobsmacked.  Our consultant has no explanation and we are now waiting to speak to him. 

However this just puts us right back to square one and beyond.  DH is possibly about to lose his job.  He’s been so stressed, he’s been signed off sick.  I absolutely cannot bring up the possibility of another round with him because that may just send him over the edge.  And of course there are all the usual doubts.  We’re too old.  We can’t afford it.  What if it doesn’t work again.  What if it DOES work……

Just when life settles down into a strange calm of the two of us and our pup, a large spanner is thrown into our peacefulness.  

And so this evening I am going to go shopping for birthday presents for my niece and not even think about the future.  I shall think about tonight and deal with tomorrow, tomorrow.


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## elithenkay (Jan 16, 2015)

Probably people have suggested things left and right, but I will say first of all that this is horrible and you don't deserve to feel like that.
All of us deserve to have a chance at creating a family. 
Did anyone suggest egg donation? or even surrogacy? Or are you not into doing that? I am still researching everything before I proceed with my
first IVF but a contact of mine who directed me to this forum, tried egg donation. I can get you in touch with her if you want to know more. 
 don't give up


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## pixie1230 (Aug 30, 2014)

Thanks MsMayhem, Emptydreams and Juliet P!
Sometimes I feel like I cant give up and still try my best to have a baby. Even if surgery can ruin my health.  But when do u really say " enough? " 
With all the things that happened to me in this IVF journey,  I feel like i should stop already but on the other side i feel like i should not give up. I just feel trapped with my medical situation  and theres no way for me to get pregnant even with IVF, only miracle can do it. So what my DH wants now is to focus on adoption. We are looking to adopt from a third world country. Maybe live there for a year until we find the right child for us. Right now that's what were sure about. My step mother in law, who has been in the same situation as me, told me that if she can go back from the day the doctor told her she cant have a baby, she will definitely process the adoption the next day, she told me not to lose the opportunity of adopting a child. And i think she is right, she is 47years old, and she said it still hurts her until now, she has nephews and nieces but she said its still different, xmas morning is always quiet, their house is sad during holidays, she said she felt so lonely, though she has 3  wonderful dogs  and 5 cats. Ii felt sorry for her when she was talking to me. And  at the same time I know she has a point  on adopting a child. And probably it can help ease the pain of not having a child on our own. 
By the way I  also I  have an appointment with an endo specialist in a few weeks(booked privately), just for me to have a second opinion, to hear it from a different point of view.Maybe im still indenial and theres still HOPE in me. Even just a tiny bit . But whatever happens, we will continue on with adoption.. 
Thanks girls for all your support, your kind words and advices. Truly means a lot to hear what you think and how did u cope since were all in the same boat. I pray that god give us the courage to accept the things that will not happen and strength to get through our daily lives. Night beautiful people!


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey guys ☺☺
Hope everyone is well. My colleague had her baby and it was a little girl, to be honest I'm not happy for her as I'm so consumed with my own loss that I don't have the capacity to feel any joy for her. On a stranger note nobody in work has mentioned her or the baby or anything remotely related !!! I'm wondering did my few outbursts work or is it that they can see how truely sad I am and have found an empathy for my struggle. Twice in work when the pregnancy was being rammed in my face I politely said I can't listen to this and went to the bathroom to cry so maybe the penny has finally dropped......only thing is I'm not sure which is worst the previous constant bombardment or the new don't mention the war type set up !!!! Its the acknowledgement of my pain being reflected through their actions thats finally shown me they know how hard it is and now I'm feeling is it pity or just understanding.....I really didn't want to be the broken one 😢😢😢
Anyway when ye have time it would be lovely to hear how everyone else is ☺☺☺
Tlk soon guys xx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Hey *emptydreams*. What's going on with us?! Everywhere is so quiet lately! I thought that I had replied here sorry. Your pain was palpable when I read, I hope you are feeling a little better at least. Hope that your colleagues had realised your pain and continued to spare you? Huge hugs xxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey Empty Dreams, Miss Mayhem, and everyone.  It has been quiet, I guess life just gets into a routine.... Empty Dreams, I'm so sorry about the inevitable news.  It never stops hurting does it?  I have had an ok time for weeks, just concentrating on DH's impending job loss, but then yesterday a girl at work told me that a sort of friend of mine there was pregnant.  She has one little girl but has been going through tests as she has failed to get pregnant again.  We've talked a lot about IVF and how it feels to be bereft of a child, even if you have one already.  She couldn't face telling me so this other girl had to do it.  I just burst into tears.  It's just out there all the time, other people's happiness and my failure.  I'm having a wallow but will pick myself up again no doubt.  Why do other people get their miracles and not us


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys 💗💗💗
I miss our chats a lot....oh Juliet im sorry to hear another pregnancy attack.....and i agree its worse as why did it work for her and not you it never ends really....
your right miss mayhem we are all gone a little bit lax but thats life i suppose. I has a fairly crap week, not baby related for once! I have a house i rent out and the tenant a french guy thrashed the place  thousands of euros damage and weeks of repairs ahead....sick of things going wrong lately and i know it could be worst but but i just want to not get the hard path for just once.....i read a comment recently saying "ul never meet a strong person who's had an easy life " and you know what i found a little solace in it but equally i dreamt of living on easy street too  
lots of love guys xxxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Apologies for typos etc but on phone


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Hugs to you both *emptydreams* and *juliet*. It's lovely to hear from you both even though it's sad not to be through better circustances. Perhaps we're coming full circle again; I had a setback today after doing really well and then was upset further by DH telling his thirteen year old daughter about IVF after me, _today_, expressly asking him not to. I'm so angry I could explode. So now not only does his child know my business but now his ex will too. I wasn't even going to mention a cycle on here as can't even cope with sympathy from people_here_ this time around but had to post out of sheer exasperation earlier. I'm so sorry you're both having such hard times too. So wish there was a solution for us all. My mother only said earlier why can't things be straightforward for once, feels from what you're both saying that we have similar luck.   I read once that happines comes when we accept that life isn't meant to be easy, I think we all seem grounded enough to know this; I wonder if the person who wrote it struggled with infertility. I somehow doubt it. Hope you have something nice planned for yourselves for the weekend. Big hugs to you and all our old friends   MissM xx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey Empty Dreams and MissM - it really is a cycle isn't it.  I guess we go quiet when things are either totally unbearable or just ok and life seems to have some positives.  Then wham and we're right back down thinking how unlucky we are.  It's ever so lonely seeming to be the only one who has this bad luck.  MissM, I'm so sorry you feel let down by your DH too.  It seems other people, including our other halves, really don't have a clue about how we feel.  I'd be furious.  It's that helplessness and the feeling of failure, plus other people's smugness.  I hate that so much.  I think I said way back in this thread that there are times when I can imagine being quite vicious to smug people.  Just to wipe the smile off their faces.  .  I want life to be easy.  I don't want to be strong.  Just for once I'd like to be a smug mother.  

Anyway,     to you all.  I'm glad we're all still here!! xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys ☺☺☺
Just a quick one....i want to be smug too so much haha 😢😢😢😢 i want to be the mom with the pretty buggy and the perfect baby gooing and gaaing up at me.....just for once i want to know what dreams coming through feels like...just to be happy because im actually happy and not just holding together. I agree men are absolute idiots at times and the longer this goes on the worse they get !!! I used to think i had the world's best bf now i dream of slapping the frying pan off his head when he tells me to stop dwelling or to get a hobby !!!!!! Hes so positive it drives me berserk 😠😠😠😠 they do not drop to our level of pain and never will.
Now wheres that frying pan lol 😅😅😅


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

LOL!!!  Empty Dreams.... I just popped on because I'm having such an awful day and you made me smile for the first time!!!!  I think I hate everything today.  My horrible job, the hideous people I work with and obviously the usual.  Just everyone.


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey guys ☺☺
I know what you mean Juliet.....somedays everyone is a let down and everyone sayes the wrong thing. It seems like noone gets you or your pain. Your not alone there. Lol sometimes ppl in supermarkets even annoy me and i don't mean ppl with kids just regular ppl. I think my tolerance levels are gone and small things annoy me. I was at the vets earlier just for a routine weight check and my 2 started to bark as they hate the vets...a lady customer stsnding at reception covered her ears in such an exaggerated fashion that it totally ticked me off.  I cannot hold my tongue lately it just pops out. But if im to be honest its kind of a positive thing as i don't think ignorant behaviour is necessary . So anyhow i turned to her and said god forbid the sound of a dog barking in a vets and i glared her one of my especially evil glares. I know all the staff there and afterwards they all said it was very funny and i was right to say it 😅😅. Another thing i wanted to share was that my colleague that had the baby met a mutual friend and started crying to her that iv ignored her since baby and that she misses me. ....i need to confess it felt great to know she was sad. I felt vindicated that she can't have it all her way and how dare she expect me to play along with her perfect life. I don't feel bad for her as this feeling is so instinctive. I suffered my pain so let her ferl some for once.
Ok guys tlk soon ☺☺


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Hey girls, glad to see that we're all trundling along!  Where's that frying pan?!  

I have to say I've been unlucky and lucky since we spoke last; had another failed cycle and bad test results but my DH has been marvellous this time around.  I don't know what has finally made the penny drop with him but he's been the way I've needed him to be throughout; shame that he couldn't have been it sooner as it would've prevented a LOT of pain and heartache but he's there at the minute and, for that, I'm grateful.

I had my colleague who was pg ask if it's ok for us to go out now for food, with the baby, it was lovely to have a catch up with her and not nearly as painful as it was but I'm still not ready for that.  Found out last night that my cousin has had twins, didn't even know they were expecting.  Felt nice that I had been protected from that but I felt humiliated at the same time; made me feel that there is an alternative life ongoing around my family that I have no knowledge of and, therefore, am not a part of.  Totally understand why they kept it from me but think it's more about a balance, I kind of needed to know but wouldn't have wanted it rammed down my throat every two minutes; would've felt kind of stupid if I'd bumped into them with a toddler and a double buggy!  Guess nobody knows what to do for the best, us included.  

How's everyone getting on?xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey Miss Mayhem ☺
Great to hear from you, im so glad to hear ur dh is being so good now please get him to teach all ours how its done lol !! Ur so right life is much simpler if they just listen and understand and stop making us feel worse. I soooooo get the alternative life going on that you mention. Im lucky in a way as i have a few neutral friends that when i feel up to it tell me in a frank and often funny way whos been popping out bambinos.  Its a very safe way for me to hear and mostly at my pace as they only tell me when i ask. But i get the humiliation bit and for that your not alone as iv felt it too. Im trying hard at the moment to focus on the positives of child free and really driving them home to myself. For now its working but we all know how quick we can go down once the wound reopens. Someday for the fun of it we should all list our top five child free perks.
On a serious note im sorry about your failed cycle there is no taking from that  
I heard a quote recently that said our bad luck can make or break us and if we stop it from breaking us it can become the making of us. A very bitter pill to swallow but i took some solace from it 
I really miss when we were all so active on here but i get we need space from it at times too. 
Lots of hugs and tlk soon xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys ☺☺☺
Just wanted to share that today i found out my best friend is pregnant.  She was so upset telling me but for once i was happy for her.....this hasn't happened in a long time but the excitement feeling associated with other ppls pregnancies that i used to feel before infertility happened to me, came back in a way. She told me by text which was a good way for me and you could feel her sadness for me through her words. She already has one girl whom i love and is the only child i can bare to be around so maybe this new baby will be the same for me. I feel weepy since i heard though and another thing doesn't help also. I think my periods have stopped.....its been 60 days since my last one but tests say negative. Iv no symptoms whatsover so im so freaked out as to what is going on  Anyone else expierance this ?? Im only 33 surely this can't be it 😢😢😢😢 i feel so alone last few weeks, i don't want to do anything or go anywhere....i feel too my relationship is different now....he has such a full life i seem to just be an observer, this is mostly my own fault as im acting like a hermit lately. Anyway guys if anyone has time please come on and write....i really need all of you right now 💔💔💔💔 
Maria ☺


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## patbaz (May 21, 2010)

Maria huni. How you're feeling is perfectly normal. As for your periods I have been in that situation a couple of times and it eventually rears its head but if this is a new thing for you go to your gp and get it checked. As for being a hermit I too went through that stage and my relationship was badly affected. I hated myself and kept pushing poor DH away. I didn't want to go out and socialise. I spoke to my gp and she recommended counselling. I got the exercise big and began to feel better about myself. Please don't beat yourself up. Find someone to talk to and force yourself to do something outside of the house. Try a walk to start off with and include DP. Im sending you big hugs huni. Pm me anytime xx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Aww Maria am so sorry you're feeling so bad right now. Huge to you. I can't offer an awful lot in the way of support other than to reassure you that you won't stay in the place you're at right now forever. I went there big time, off sick from work for months and months and am now officially unemployed. I didn't want to see anyone or talk to anyone, was vile to DH (not helped by him being an absolute ar*e though let's be honest!) and really didn't see much point in anything, least of all me. I'm not really sure how that changed or when it changed but it did. Don't get me wrong, I'm still hurting but it's not overwhelming me so much now. I found that talking to someone that I trusted (for me my mother and a friend that I'd lost contact with a few years before) really helped. I pretty much had a breakdown before I opened up to my mother and my friend is quite spiritual and encouraged me to stop hiding and really 'feel' what was happening for me. It was bloody hard that bit was, extremely painful, but it helped enormously once I really went there pain wise and stopped trying to bat it off. Fast forward a few months and even though I've not long had a failed cycle I actually hold the baby up the street now, she's just turned one and now knows me so well she puts her arms out for me to hold her. I NEVER thought that I would feel like that ever again. So in the midst of all that you're feeling there are glimmers, you didn't feel the anger that you do towards others to your friend but of course you're upset and hurt. It sounds too that she's a good friend who is aware of how this must make you feel; sometimes people taking our feelings into consideration really helps, though maybe not to the extreme of excluding us like I said in my last post. I have lost count of the horrible feelings and responses I have had throughout this whole process. I guess you have to accept that's how you feel, you feel it for a _very_ valid reason, don't be even more cruel to yourself by beating yourself up about it.

How is your other half being with you at the moment? I know from experience that when they're not being supportive it can make everything a million times worse as we then get so upset we can't communicate our feelings properly either. And your period not coming is adding insult to injury. We stress about where it is and what it may mean in a bad way and deep down we cling desperately to the hope that it will finally be our turn. I agree with patbaz to speak to your GP about it, stress in itself can throw it all over the place, as can the medications that we've been taking. If counselling isn't for you (I had lots of it but that was before I was at my worst) then please make sure you talk to someone you trust and, of course, use us here. I'll always get an email notification if I've had a pm on here so if this thread is quiet then message ok. Don't struggle on your own, you don't need to struggle on your own when we are here and you have people who love and value you under your nose even if you don't think that at the moment. Try reiki or a nice relaxation CD too. I have an IVF one (Helen McPherson IVF Belief) which is for use when cycling but there is a part on there that you can use whenever you need extra relaxation. I find that so helpful and, saying it now, have realised I've not listened myself for a while and should. I find the hypnosis ones where they guide and relax you the best. If you don't want to think about anything IVF related at the moment try the Paul McKenna one, had that a few years back, stress relief one. Huge   for you. We're here.xxxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Thanks so much Patbaz and MissMayhem ☺☺☺
Every point you both made instantly made me feel better. We really are the only ones that fully get eachother. Im really glad you feel comfortable with your neighbours baby and most ppl don't understand what a huge step that is for us. I think its a blessing in a way that we can interact with a baby that we feel secure with. Her holding out her hands to you makes me smile thinking how wonderful that is. 
Im def going to start jogging again as a release and i walk my dogs every day, i just feel the sadness takes from lots of situations but there are good days too i suppose just fewer of those.  Somedays i feel as if im just watching other ppls life journeys and that my own is very stagnant.  Kieran cycles competivly and most weekends he is away at races. Im happy for him as he adores it...sometimes i think he would prefer to keep his bikes in the bed and me in the shed lol 😅😅😅, but it does mean a lot of alone time for me. I have plenty of friends but i tend to avoid them as i feel mon to fri in work is tough enough faking a smile so at the weekends its sometimes easier to just be at home with my dogs or read a book. I have to stop pushing him away but our anger causes us to act this way. He gets a lot of attention from girls esp in cycling and they often email him questions about bikes and i always think to myself i wonder if he was with her would she give him what i can't. ..i get sad and angry all at once. Thanks so much guys for chatting, it makes me feel so much less alone and i think it makes me feel proud in a way because ye are all such wonderful ppl that if iv anything in common with ye thats a good thing.
ps Miss mayhem im sorry to hear about your work situation but you needed that time, iv often felt like leaving too and somedays i think i will, i hope it works out to whatever is best for you ☺☺ 
Tlk soon as id better get back to work 😴😴😴😴


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Forgot to say big hugs to everyone xxx☺☺☺


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Hi Maria, good to hear from you.  You sound a lot more upbeat today, guess that's how it goes but it's also good for us to remember how quickly things can change.  When times are toughest for us it's good to remember that even that pain too, albeit the severity of it when it's something like this, will pass.

I can hear your anger at yourself coming out in your comment about the girls contacting your partner.  It's horrible to hear someone else feeling like that but I know I've felt exactly that myself.  If I could have ripped my limbs off at some points in the past then I'm sure I would have, I hated my body for letting me down.  Now I just view it as a feckless instrument, useless to me but mine nonetheless.  And I guess the only thing that's got me to this point is time.

We've talked about the whole friends thing before.  Can you not just say that you don't want to have to put a front on so talk of pregnancy, babies etc. is off limit for a night?!  I had a lovely night with one of my old friends last weekend, we had a few drinks and a few moans about general stuff but we had loads of wine and old photos to look at.  She asked what had been happening with me and how I was and I just said 'do you know what?  I really don't want to talk about it, I want to have a laugh' so we did!  We didn't get paralytic like we may have done in our younger days but we still had a nice evening.  There was no falseness as I didn't have to 'hide' anything or put a front on, but I didn't have to talk about it either.  Alone time is good, but not too much eh!  Says the girl who spent months cooped up inside not wanting to see anyone! 

Thanks for your good wishes about the job, I'm really not worried about it and know now that I absolutely did need that time.  I still need a little more I think.  But am looking forward to finding something soon.  Take good care of yourself and remember we're here.   xx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

And forgot to say the baby up the street is lush! From being a baby person big time before IF ever hit me I got to the point where I hardly even acknowledged her, couldn't go to her Christening last year as it was just too painful.  This year I was there quite happily at her first birthday party; struggled a bit with a newborn baby that was there mind you but I survived.  

What are your plans treatment wise at the minute anyway?  I'm not sure what to do next, looking for a bit of guidance and inspiration from my clinic but it's not particularly forthcoming at the minute.xx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey Empty Dreams and Miss Mayhem – I’m so sorry you’ve been struggling recently.  I totally understand the cousin giving birth scenario!  One of mine gave birth before Christmas and I didn’t know she was pregnant.  I hated that I was kept out of that loop, but glad that I hadn’t had that expectation for 9 months.  I don’t know whether I want to know or not.  Some days I feel cross at being left out, some days I can’t believe anyone would even mention the baby word to me.

I would love to give up my job.  It’s a temp job anyway as I gave up my lovely job in London when I moved to Kent.  It’s been a real struggle getting used to a much quieter life, boring job and none of my friends being near.  I’ve found it quite hard carrying on in a pointless job especially when the reason I did it was to go through IVF and have a family.  

It’s good to know you’re all still there – there are times when I long for people to be in the same situation as me but there never are!!!  Are we so rare?  

Miss Mayhem, I would love to plan another round.  We have one vial left of frozen sperm and our clinic has teamed up with CARE so we can have an egg donor whenever we want.  DH is currently unemployed so I’m not mentioning anything to him until he gets a job, but I’d dearly love one more go.  Can you talk to your consultant and get some advice?

Anyway I hope your days are bright today and something good happens to you all xxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey guys ☺☺☺
I always smile reading your comments as they offer so much validation to how im feeling. Its so good to know we are all normal in this awful situation and none of us are alone.  God id love a friend near me that was going through this right now. My best friend is great though and our nights out or lunch dates where wine just appears are great......we were meant to be going on a girly weekend but had to cancel since she found out shes expecting. I honestly think il be ok with this pregnancy though but i suppose i have to be realistic too. The fact i work with men too is great as there is never baby tlk lol 😅😅😅. I can just about cope with all the sport's tlk though !!
MissMayhem you mentioned your spiritual friend telling you to face your pain, any tips on that ?? I think i might dwell on mine too much. But maybe im just redirecting it....who knows. You made me laugh with the paralytic comment.....i miss that too, sometimes wine fixes everything.
In terms of treatment im in limbo land. Since both ivfs failed im very afraid to start again. Egg donation is my only option so thats next for me. I think kieran is very nervous of how il react if it fails also. I was a mess after the ivf and i feel hes happy with life now and could do without me getting so down again.  Also we lost 8000 on ivf and egg donation is about 10000 so im equally anxious about losing more money. I suppose im lucky in a way as we do have savings but at the same time im more afraid of becoming even more bitter if i loose our savings aswell. Back in the good days it was easier to save so that was kind of our rainyday money or we had plans to move also. Nowadays in ireland anyhow the celtic tiger is more of a feral cat lol !! So throwing money at something with no guarantees is hard to do. Sometimes i feel the clinics portray an image of confidence but in reality they don't always know or do whats best for us. There is a case in ireland of a woman suing the government for not covering fertility treatments to some extent so that outcome will be very interesting.  It is an illness in the end of the day 😢😢. 
On a different note my friend just called with her 3 yr old and she broke 2 owl ornaments and my cute little honey pot and smeared chocolate on the glass doors so im feeling an ickle bit glad shes gone home lol 😅😅😅 silver lining huh !!
Tlk soon guys and thanks so much as without ye i don't think iv of felt better so quickly this time xxxx
MissMayhem and Juliet i hope so much ye get another shot at treatment. Who knows what tmr holds for any of us ☺


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey Empty Dreams.....I can totally understand how you feel glad at your friend's child going home!!  Some days I honestly wonder what all the fuss is about, children are awful!!!!!  I guess I don't crave a 3 year old, it's a baby I want and I'll deal with the growing up later!

Egg donation IS so expensive.  Last year our round was £8k and we were horrified.  This year we got their price list through and it's £10k.  For what  They're doing the same procedures and they're saying its £2k more expensive  It feels like they're so not there to help, they're just a money making business.

Lucky you working with men - easier all round!!!  All mine are young 20 something, just out of university so they're constantly talking careers and baby plans...I can't stand it.

It really is time for a new life.  I'm not sure if I could stand the depression of another failed round and I feel that's where we'd be headed.  Our consultant simply can't explain why all our embryos died last time now that we've had the sperm tests back and they're all fine. They were convinced it was the sperm at fault.  They're happy to give us another go, but I am sure in his heart our consultant knows it won't work.  He just hasn't got the answers.

Anyway...another day.  Speak to you soon ladies xxx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

We're  all in limbo land together it seems! Glad you're seeing the flip side empty dreams, smeared  chocolate and smashed ornaments! My children would never do that!   Our clinic is lovely but they just will not give  directive answers. I see ro many people on here with really inventive  and properly tailored  protocols and think 'why the  hell  don't mine do something  like that?!' I've  always said I can't afford to go abroad for treatment but a tandem cycle, best of both worlds, including the holiday is  roughly the same  as a  donor egg cycle here in the UK. DH is forever asking if we can just go to Ireland but it's even more expensive with you Maria. Am really thinking  seriously about going abroad, will just have to deal with his daughter sulking for us not taking her on 'holiday' with us, a cross I think I'll bear to be honest. Sorry no reference to you girls but on this stupid bloody phone again  and can  hardly see! Have a lovely weekend both   xx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Sorry Maria, I didn't ask your question. My friend recommended a book Eckhart Tolle The Power of Now, I started it but didn't get that far with it, was a bit wordy, wordy for me and I wasn't quite in the mood but it may be something that I'll go back to. For me though at the time where I was at my absolute worst I was using the excuse of shoulder pain as an excuse to take a lot of strong painkillers, when it was really emotional pain that I was trying to hide from. When I wasn't doing that I was shouting at DH, or I was busying myself helping others, or busying myself doing pretty much anything. If I had a drink ever I ended up having a lot to drink, anything to try and block things out. So I guess what she did for me was she just listened and pushed to see how I was _actually_ feeling, didn't just accept the staple answer that was all most other people were comfortable with.

She didn't ever try to make me feel better, so all the old cliches that other people use that are meant to be well-intentioned but in reality make you want to slap them in the face (i.e. everything happens for a reason, it'll happen when you least expect it...relax....stop thinking about it etc., think of all the wonderful things about not having children...you know, the usual list!) were totally avoided. She just acknowledged my pain, said she can see how much I'm hurting, that she couldn't begin to imagine how much, but to not hide from my pain. Not to embrace it as such as I think she knows me well enough that if she'd said that to me I may have flipped, but said to face it without any of my distraction aids as it would only be through facing it and really feeling the overwhelming hurt that I could ever begin to heal from it.

I used another book too, Jody Day, 'Rocking the Life Unexpected' it helped me express my anger and face my hurt a bit but I've never actually finished it as she talks a lot about a Plan B and I'm not ready to accept that Plan A is not going to happen for me yet so she's just been stuffed to gather dust somewhere. Ultimately I guess it just took time, it took not being around too many people where I had to put the front or face on, took me facing the pain and took me being a bit kinder to myself over time.

I always find meditation discs help me to relax a bit too. It's quite hard to put into words how you face it and it's quite a scary thing to do. Even though we know that we can't avoid this in any way I think we do an awful lot to distract ourselves without realising. If I'm honest I still haven't faced it 100% even now, and I know that if my next try doesn't work I'll be devastated as I'll be getting closer and closer to having to accept that it may not happen and would have to look at other routes. But I've done quite a bit and am feeling totally different to how I was.

The place I went to was really scary at times, I had many times where I thought that my life was totally pointless and always would be so. At the moment I can't believe how calm I am. Hearing of pregnancy always smarts and it makes me smile ironically when I meet new people as all anyone who doesn't know what my difficulties are seem to talk about is babies/pregnancy/their kids, quite boring really when you think of it. I mean don't get me wrong, IVF and infertility has taken up a LOT of my air space over the past few years but I'd like to think that I'm capable of quite interesting conversations on other topics as well!  I think part of my resolve has come from knowing that I will be a mother one way or another, guess that means I have to get a move on though as would be truly devastated if I got to the adoption point and was told that I was too bloody old for that too! Anyway, hope you're having a good weekend.  to you both.xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi Guys ☺☺☺
Thanks so much for that post MissMayhem, its really touching to share all your pain and feelings as i agree i don't think we even know how to comprehend all of this. Reading each others stories stories is the best way for us all to understand, help and heal ourselves. I so not what you mean about blocking out the pain. I felt the same about having a glass of wine i felt i needed it to calm my constant obsessing on pregnancy. And as you said one glass then 2 and often the bottle. I remember getting bad news one day in the doctors and when i got home it was about 1 o clock so i grabbed a bottle of wine and got into the hammock out the back and just drank glass after glass to numb the pain. I just kept crying like a right old crazy swinging in my hammock.  Kieran put me to bed and i slept it off but i always used it as a crutch on a night out. I felt it gave me the strength to not be overly emotional.....who was i fooling wine is a bottle full of emotional grapes 😅😅😅. You made a point Juliet thats so poignant, you said its time for a new life and that sums us all up.....its like a constant waiting game at the bus stop to our new life but the bus never comes. The pain is so diversified i think we can't phantom our racing emotions and how can we conquer this ?? God working with girls in their 20s must be horrendous, im so sorry thats a daily struggle for you. Lately teenage girls upset me more than babies as i would soooo love a daughter and at that age they are so fun and the world is all new to them. I remember being that age and your planning out your life lol....if we only knew back then huh 😅😅😅 half our lives spent fearing pregnancy the other half fearing the lack of it.
I got my periods today...63 days how mad is that but im glad for once as menopause can leave me alone another while please 😅😅. Im going to pick up some books like that missmayhem and give it a go as i think we need help to help ourselves. Your lucky to have such an insightful friend. Your so right about conversations too, all ppl tlk about is pregnancy or death😅😅. 
Last night i went out with my friend and it was a good night until i bumped into my colleague who recently had the baby husband...i said hi and he ignored me so i said id be the bigger person and explain why iv kept my distance, something i thought he knew anyhow but he lost it and started roaring at me and cursing and saying really nasty stuff....i just walked away and i text michelle this morning. Not sure if ye remember me saying he was off with me for ages but was i right or what !! She said there was no excuse for his behaviour and she said he was cross as i referred to the babies christening as "its" christening.  I 100% did not and he lied to justify his actions. He looked like he wanted to kill me before i even mentioned the christening.  I said we would just forget about it to be the bigger person. Hes a horrible man anyway but to have him loose it on me was scary but i didn't cry and im proud of that. She understands why i needed space you think he would. 
Sorry for ranting lol 😅😅
Tlk soon guys and thanks for always making it all a bit easier for me. 
Oh and i forgot to say i don't think any of us are ready to give up yet as hard as it is we are all still hoping 💗💗💗


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Sorry about the typos as on phone ☺☺


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

God, pardon the French but he sounds like an absolute dick! What is it in Ireland? A fecking eejit?! Just when you think people can't surprise you any more they do! I feel sorry for your friend, he sounds like a bully. Well  done you for standing your ground and doing your best to be reasonable with an unreasonable person. Hold your horses though and do NOT wish a teenage girl upon yourself, you've done nowt to deserve that....have come on here tonight to  jump on the step-parenting thread and see if  someone can help stop me ripping my hair out! Aaarrgghh......and breeeeathe!  Hope you're ok, don't let him upset you.xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey Miss Mayhem ☺☺
Haha that made me laugh !! Your right i bet teenage girls are a force to be reckoned with 😅😅. Whats is like being a step mom ?? It must be really hard in ways and nice in other ways. How are things going in your set up ? I remember you mentioning unfair demands for holidays etc and a few other bits. Has something upset you that your feeling like that at the moment ? Let us know how your feeling, i prob can't offer any insightful advice on step kids but i can always listen ☺☺
Yeah i felt very sorry for my friend.....he's an awful bully, what a life she must have with him.
Tlk soon guys xxx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

One thing I know when I see it, or hear it, is a bully! I really do feel for her, he he can be like that in public I bet he's a brute at home

If you'd asked me about step parenting two weeks ago I would've said it's tough but still wonderful. I love my stepdaughter but being a parent to someone else's child when you're going through treatment and longing for your own can be hard beyond words. I've had her in my life for years now and have absolutely worshipped the ground she walks on but the last four/five years have got tougher and tougher as it seemed the more we did the more she was neglected by her mother. It's been really hard to witness and feel powerless to do anything about. Cutting a _very_ long story short though we got stabbed in the back last week as she suggested during a therapy meeting that all her issues are our fault. We're dumbfounded to be honest and I guess now that my step duties are done. It may sound selfish but I work with kids and families, may want to adopt in future, so cannot put myself in the firing line anymore. So she will be seeing her father when she wants but she won't be coming here, not for a while at least. I can't quite believe I'm saying that, can't believe it's come to this. Very sad

Anyway, not all step parent families end up this way, I'm a step child myself, my father is amazing! But it's not easy, not as easy as it initially seems anyway! 

Anyway, how are you getting on? Better I hope? xx


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## patbaz (May 21, 2010)

Miss mayhem. I'm really disappointed in your step daughter. You have done so much to be a good role model to her. All I can say is teenagers are very easily manipulated. She will someday realise how good and kind you've been to her and she will apologise. I think it's good you're taking a step back. I'm sending you big hugs x


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Aww *patbaz* thank you, that's so good to hear right now you wouldn't believe! Over the past week or so I've second guessed everything I've said and done, no matter how confident you are in what you do and how you do it when criticisms like we've had are levelled at you its really hard not to doubt yourself. I got upset with my own mother tonight when I said something and she remained quiet, took it as meaning she believed I was at fault, she didn't at all but it showed how quickly my confidence has been damaged. Funny you should say 'role model', that's exactly what my little stepdaughter used to call me! Sad. You also made another good point though, manipulation. Her mother is hugely manipulative and step daughter's other influence is one of control So on lots of levels it makes perfect sense but at the same time I really can't work out exactly what she thinks criticising us so hugely (not to mention unfairly) will achieve for her, the only thing I can grasp at is a bit of camaraderie with her mother maybe? But seen as she gets most of her stability and attention from us I still don't know what it will achieve. Who knows eh?! Either way I have to remove myself as I can't not say anything to her, yet if I do, I leave myself wide open to goodness knows what repercussions. Thanks for your support though, perfectly timed.  xx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Oh Miss Mayhem what a horrible situation you are in with your stepdaughter.  I cant remember how old she is, but I've been an angry little girl myself and it wouldn't have mattered if my parents had given me the world, I'd STILL have blamed them for things that went wrong.  I so hope this is an angry stage she's going through that she will work through and come out the other side and realise what a lovely stepmother you actually are and what she could have landed up with.  The awful thing is that no matter how horrible her mother is, she's still her mother.  My DH has two grown up sons, 29 and 30 and the 30 year old hasn't seen his mother since he was very young.  But the 29 year old still sees her and spent so much of his youth thinking his father had abandoned him, when actually the mother had assaulted DH many times, stolen money and been all sorts of horrible.  The 30 year old asked DH about his mother at age 20 or so and was horrified, cross and desperately upset.  Once he'd calmed down he was so respectful of DH and he's now a lovely man.  The younger one knows there are stories to be heard but still isn't ready.  Thankfully, I've only known them all for 11 years so I've never been stepmother, but if I had, I would have found boys much easier than girls, but still a struggle to manage even the memories of a horrible woman, let alone one who is on the scene.  You are doing the right thing.  Remove yourself, but always be there if she reaches out to you.  She must learn to respect you too, although at the moment her life is all about her, hopefully one day that recognition will happen that other people's feelings matter just as much, but for now you are the most important.  You must feel so let down.  

Empty Dreams, good on you in your battle with that horrible man.  What an utterly vile person he seems.  Get him right out of your life and her if necessary - they are just going to hurt you and remind you of what you don't have yet so who needs them?  I'm always shocked with the things people say to each other over the security of the internet, but to say things to your face is unforgivable.  You are a bigger person than me keeping your cool and not crying.  I'd have probably unleashed the most swear words I could imagine and then burst into tears.  Abolutely horrible.

Not much is happening with me.  Life is still plodding on.  My kitchen is still in bits (DH swears he'll have it done this week) and a job I thought he might take he's having second thoughts about.

Oh Miss Mayhem - adoption...we did briefly look into it and we were considered too old for a baby.  We are much older than you and your DH (44 and 54) and they take account of both ages when considering.  We weren't big enough or strong enough to consider a child as with age come so many more problems and I still yearned for a baby.  Just a thought that if you enquire now, you may have a better chance of being accepted than if you wait for more years.

Off for a day with the 20 year old.  Wish me luck


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Thanks Juliet, and thanks for giving some perspective too. I agree with most of what you say, in fact I agree with all that you've said, but there's one bit that I can't do anymore and that's be there for her.  I am so tired of it and just can't put myself in such a vulnerable position now.  For the past seven years I have been there for her 24/7 and  it's not been easy by any stretch but I can't commit to doing that anymore, I have too much to lose. I'm not proud of myself in not being able to do it but I have to protect myself in this now. I will always support my husband in seeing her but she spent a lot of time with us, mainly me as he either goes to bed early or is out with his band. I have no idea what her motives are so can't pre-empt what she may say about me next so I really do have to be careful. It's a horrible way to have to think but is necessary at the minute I think.  I know what you mean about her mother always being her mother and have always been conscious of that.  The irony is is that it's been my stepdaughter who has been the one to complain about her mother's care.  I know sometimes she would've been aware of my feelings when I was really upset at something that had/hadn't been done to her. But for the majority part I have had to grit my teeth and say positive things above her mother in order to try and protect her from the harsh reality.  That in itself has been hugely difficult. But for the time being at least I have to accept that I am her new target and have to watch my back. She's fourteen now so has quite a bit of awareness of the powerful position she now has, particularly as she appears to have a worker who has limited ability to see any form of wider picture feeding into her need for control.  I've worked in situations like this for years, you'd think I would have seen this one creeping up to bite me eh! ?

Thanks for the heads up on adoption too. I want to get the ball rolling but know that you have to have stopped treatment in order to start the process and I've not given up on my own treatment yet in order to start it. I did read of someone who did both sneakily but I don't think my nerves could cope with fibbing at the best of times!  

I'm really sorry that they told you you're too old.  I think that's absolutely ridiculous! What are your plans now, and who is your twenty year old? ! Xx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Morning Miss Mayhem....

You are so right, you do need to look after yourself.  It's so easy for me sitting here to give advice and I didn't mean you need to be there for your stepdaughter whatever - it's what I try to tell myself when I'm faced with people's horrible reactions to me - always be the bigger person.  But I agree with you completely.  Right now, if she is being horrible and manipulative then a break will at least stop the hurt growing any more.  You just don't need that strain and upset when you have more important things to think about.  You've been so good to her, I would be devastated to be treated like that after all the effort you have so obviously put in to making her feel part of your family.  

I didn't know you had to have stopped your own treatment before you start the adoption process!  That's just so ridiculous.  Honestly, there are people all over the place spilling out baby after baby and they are far from ideal parents and yet if we want to offer a home to someone who really needs one, we have to stop all other parts of our lives, be whiter than white in order to get a look in.  I was furious when I found out that our age would restrict our options - it seems to me to be utterly wrong to stop us caring for a baby when if all things were normal, we could have one at this age anyway and people do.  It just shows how corrupt the system is.

My plans are at the back of my mind because I have to wait for DH to find a job!  I have some savings and we have one vial left of DH's sperm.  So, I feel we have to have one more go with donor eggs.  In my heart I know it won't work - our last embies all died so comprehensively on day 3 which is when the male factor kicks in, but our tests on the last but one remaining vial of sperm came back ok.  Our consultant doesn't have an answer, but I know he still thinks it's the male factor.  He would let us try again but I believe he thinks we should let it go and go for embryo donation.  I've been on that waiting list for a year and I know that DH won't go for that.  It was hard enough to persuade him to go for egg donation.

Any my 20 year old should have read 20 year olds!!  I work with about 30 newly graduated (or just out of school) people.  It's truly hideous.  While they're all planning for the future, I feel like an old has been!!  It was only supposed to be a temp job, but 3 years later I'm still here.....awful!

And off I go again.  It's like Groundhog day!  xxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey guys ☺☺
Sorry i haven't been on lately had few things on last few weeks. Miss Mayhem your having such a hard time....all your going through and then this to top it off !!! I honestly think maybe she realised the issues with her mom but human nature sometimes provokes us to deflect our anger onto something or someone else.....she's probably angry at her mom but having her in her ear has totally manifested this false feeling towards you. Its much easier for her to moan about you than her mom and teenagers change so rapidly that i hope she sees the light very soon....very silly of her to loose you as a role model when she has so much to learn from you. Sometimes i wonder how much hurt can we take before we burst .....for now focus on you and have some distance as if this is her "thing" stay well clear and give her no ammunition. And since iv known you i think you are absolutely fantastic and excellent at advice and someone who has helped me enormously on here ☺☺☺.
lol Juliet i hope your kitchen gets sorted soon....sounds stressful !! I hate diy esp when it involves the other half 😅😅. Im sure it will be lovely when its finished.  In regards to your dhs job i hope it works out for you both 👍👍.
Adoption cracks me up too....you need to be a stay at home millionaire snow white type character and thats only the preliminary requirements !! Scumbags poppping out babies everyday then and the state totally furnishes their waster lifestyles !!! I give up haha.
I was minding my bestfriends daughter earlier and it was fun....im still totally ok with her pregnancy (shocking i know ) and it was in her house so i spotted a thank you card from my ex colleague on her mantlepiece. ..it was a mini photoshoot thingy with a few professional photos of her baby.....i don't know why but i instantly felt crap....so angry and bitter in an instant.  The card was so pretentious and the baby so perfect and i realised i would prob of had something very similar but never will. I tore my wardrobe out to vent my anger when i got home.....i hate the unexpected kicks 😢😢😢
Anyway im going to say goodnight and chin up MissMayhem you should be proud of all you have done for your sd ☺☺ she is lucky to have you xx
Tlk soon guys ☺


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey ED, well I had an unexpected downer yesterday too....I'd stopped to get petrol at my local garage, went in to pay and someone came in and shouted 'ok which one of you has just had a baby and not even told me'.  It was the man serving me and I was torn between congratulating him and running without paying.  As I walked back to my car all the scary thoughts I'd had 3 years ago before I even started IVF suddenly came flooding back and by the time I got home 5 minutes later I just felt totally alone and awful with no future and no hope.  And yet, I'm more than happy normally as I can block it out.  Horrible how it just gets you....  did much in your wardrobe survive??  
xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey Juliet ☺☺
God i feel like im there in that garage with you !!! Do you ever feel like that's its almost laughable how these things keep happening to us.....almost like their staged scenarios. Sometimes i feel like roaring out "ok enough is enough!!"
I know that desire to run and hide away and let it all out once your back at home but the grief is so consuming and like you described so overwhelming. Hopeless heartbreak that turns itself on as easy as a lightswitch. 
I cleared out so much stuff.....good god there was some seriously dodgy outfits in there😅😅😅. Kieran arrived home in the middle of  the wardrobe armagedon only to announce "are your hormones at you again ".....i felt like firing a boot at him. How was i ever able to walk in 8 inch heels though !! Dresses from nights out flooded back memories for me of the days before all of this and as sad as i felt i did feel stronger as a result of it all. So 17 bin liners later (no joke) i felt mentally and physically decluttered !!
Each day brings a new struggle for us, a new almost ninja like style attack when we are least expecting it but also a new strength to keep going.
On a happier note the pharmacy i work in got nominated for best pharmacy team in ireland so we are all off to a blacktie event in Dublin !! All expenses paid i might add ☺☺☺. I think it will be a good distraction too in a way. So i got a new dress and shoes and i won't be eating for the week lol !!.
God i wish we all lived closer so we could meet up and just be there for each other in person. 
I hope your feeling a little bit better Juliet but it takes time to gain control of our sorrow each time. 
Im always here for you and everyone on here.....il make you smile by telling you about a pair of cowboy boots i found in my wardrobe.....i bought them about 12 years ago because they were in some silly magazine as the next hot trend !! They are white with tassels and trust me i don't think Gareth Brooks would even wear these.  Hideous is the only description that comes to mind ! I wore them out one night (secretly thinking i was jessica Simpson) and they were so heavy i couldn't dance !!! God the worries we had back then lol !!
anyhow im off to bed so tlk soon guys and lots of hugs to everyone ☺☺☺


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## patbaz (May 21, 2010)

I think I had those same cowboy boots 🙈🙈🙈


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Lol Patbaz 😅😅😅😅
What were we thinking !!!! Im glad i wasn't the only one !!! What must we of looked like 🙈🙈🙈.


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## patbaz (May 21, 2010)

We were obviously the trend setters 🙈😱🙈😱


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

And there's me thinking everyone here was sane enough!   Sorry you've had that horrible feeling come and bite you, it's awful isn't it, that pain just simmers away. Things have gotten worse here, all stepdaughter's accusations are now levelled solely at me. Apparently I shout at her all the time, she's made some terrible claims about me yet she can't understand why I may not want to see her and bend over backwards for her like I usually do at the minute. You could cut the atmosphere here with a knife as my husband has just said he feels in the middle. Makes me wonder if he thinks the same  things if there is something for him to be the middle of! Am so fed up your wouldn't believe, am supposed to be planning and looking forward to a new cycle but now instead have all this nonsense. So even though she's not been up for a week and a half it's still all about her. I'm just so tired of it being stress around her one way or another. Have spent years worrying about her and now, ironically, am worrying about myself because of what's being said about me!  Oh to be able to go back in time! Xx


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## patbaz (May 21, 2010)

MissMayhem I'm sorry DH isn't giving you the support you deserve but I do think you're doing the right thing in so far as taking a step back from her. As difficult as it Inge are you now have to focus on yourself. You know what is being said is BS and it is coming from someone other than your stepdaughter. I am sending you as many positive vibes as I can and I am sending you strength and hugs. always remember that you've been an amazing mum to her when she needed one and she will realise this too in time. Sending you much love x


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey MissMayhem,
Sorry to hear that you have that going on still.......its the last thing you need😢 is it an attention seeking thing with her ?? Or just a teenage trouble making thing ? It must be so hard as your Dh is upsetting you even more then. I know the feeling of late when they don't seem to have your back in a situation so to speak. Its a different type of hurt but its very sharp as they are the one person that knows all your pain and yet they can make us feel more alone in a way......yes we are prob hard work somedays but you know what we didn't ask for this mess and anyone of us would give anything to erase it all. I feel that because they see us cry and pour our pain out so much it almost makes them insensitive to us when new problems crop up....i know with kieran it has become more about oh god how much will this set her off or how many days of "meltdown" will i have to put up with now instead of il listen and try to reassure her. Humans brains are prone to do a thing called pattern matching and i think men do this a lot. So when we are angry or sad etc they know how it has panned out before and become impatient and annoyed at the prospect of a new episode. 
I wish i had better advice to offer you but iv no expierance with teenagers...could you ask her to write down how she feels and what she wants to say and maybe that will clear the air....also physically writing might curtail her lies !!!
Now remember you are the only person who can truely care for you so try suggesting that option and then putting it aside and maybe say to dh that you understand his situation but you don't wish to dwell on it and maybe do few different things just the 2 of you as a distraction. I know it will be so hard but maybe don't discuss it too much even though its eating you inside as my fear is that she will get her own way and end up causing you two to argue.  And we all know how much fighting sucks 😢😢😢 come on here to vent instead and say to us all the stuff that you want to scream out. You will come across as above all of it then xxx
Keep us posted ☺☺☺


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Thank you all again,  I don't know what I would do without this place sometimes!  I know I know the truth pat but it's so hard not to jump to the temptation of trying to defend yourself.  Anyone ever feel guilty when a police car is behind them?  Or feel guilty walking through customs even though you've done nothing wrong? ! Well it kind of feels like that,  only worse as it's not so temporary.  I know the most I am guilty of is raising my voice slightly to her a handful of times over the past seven years,  and then it's been with good reason.  But because she gets no discipline,  or attention,  at home I'm copping it and feel totally guilty as charged.  You speak wise words too emptydreams but sadly it's already causing arguments between me and my husband.  He says that he has my back but when he keeps saying he's stuck in the middle I can't help but wonder how true that actually is. Your suggestion of just switching off from it is a good idea though I think,  will try that. Part of this is attention,  part is to ingratiate herself with her mother and part is that this actually is how she perceives this.  She's told my husband that I'm this,  that and the other and that I never used to be this way.  She's very much used to being in control and just doesn't get that if she does unacceptable things that she will be told about it. That's not going to change.  Because of everything infertility related I'm even starting to doubt myself and wonder if perhaps I'm taking it out on her without realising but I really don't think that's the case. But she thinks it is this no doubt, another drawback of the lack of boundaries and her being privy to too much information. God I wish this would all just stop; it's only recently that me and my husband have been getting on better again,  it was so nice to have a nice calm period,  it's been a long time coming! Sorry for being so 'me' am just trying to vent where I can!  Thanks again. Xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

I think the self doubt is totally linked to the stress of infertility. Its like our self belief is completely eroded and so fragile at all times. I felt the same when that guy started shouting at me on the night out....i was acutely aware of what a bully he was yet i began thinking it is me??....did i perhaps deserve it  Should i of just took the pain and hid it from them all ?? But you know what ignorant ppl are full to the brim with confidence and good ppl are full of self doubt and insecurities. I think you need to play her at her own game, just ignore the situation where possible and when she sees its not affecting you im sure she'll divert her attention elsewhere.  I agree also that ppl are way too privy to our pain and then its used against you as if to say its why we did this or that or to say we are bitter or angry.....i say walk in my shoes for 5 minutes and we'll see then !! Try to tlk about other things with your husband and see how it goes. I totally picked up on the fact that is misplaced anger and frustration being diverted from other areas in her life onto you...possibly fuelled by her her mother also. So head up now MissMayhem and this week focus on you and your husband and block her out when you can. Not in an ignoring way but an impartial way so it comes across you've moved past it. I must go for a jog now but im not feeling it. I went for a spin today with my best friend and her daughter and we went to an amusement arcade and the beach.....families everywhere and i always find myself staring at families and wondering why . I keep imagining my childs face and eyes and laugh and then its a sharp jolt back to reality.....being a dad even makes men more handsome as you can see the kindness radiate from them towards their kids....ok i was perving on a few hotties  no harm in that either i suppose !! Keep me posted and any time you need to vent pop on here 
Tlk soon xx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Oh Miss Mayhem, I’m so sorry.  What an awful situation and how horrible your SD is being.  The thing that is most important and that people don’t say for fear of sounding wrong is that your life is about you and your DH.  Even if you had a child together, you two are the unit and the child must realise that they cannot break that bond.  Your DH must not feel he is in the middle.  He is with YOU and his guilt at not being with her mother must absolutely not allow his daughter to come between you.  I sound so stern but I’m so cross for you at the lack of support.  Yes of course your SD needs love and support but not at your expense.  As long as your SD knows she can wrap your DH around her little finger, she will keep doing it.  When she knows that it doesn’t work, then maybe you can start to rebuild your relationship.  It’s the age old divide and conquer and children are the most adept at it.  I watch supernanny, I know all the tricks!!!!  You need to know you are not alone in fighting your corner.  You need to be able to step away from her, concentrate on you and yet know that 100% your DH is fighting for you.  That doesn’t mean he is against her.  It means he is for you.  

And breathe!  I came on here to tell you all something else that happened to me and to seek some ‘poor me’ but I feel too cross for you Miss Mayhem and also I can’t stop thinking about some cowboy boots I too once owned!  Too many different emotions all in one post. (Not to mention the hot ‘daddies’ that live in my area!!)

So this evening I was out with all our local dog people, chatting whilst our dogs played.  One person commented on the forthcoming appointment for their dog to be neutered and the conversation centred around how it’s best for *****es to be ‘done’ before their first season because if not, they can tend to get diseases later on in life if they don’t have puppies.  One of the women said it was a known fact that’s true of people too and she said ‘yes you know, nuns who obviously don’t have children are more likely to get breast cancer or cancer of the womb’.  I wasn’t sure whether I was more horrified at the thought of getting cancer merely because I haven’t had children, or deeply hurt that it was only nuns who are perceived as not having kids.  I felt in that moment so completely abnormal and also ever so slightly worried about my impending demise.  And then of course I just felt alone and different.

But we are all in it and that’s why I came on here.  Just for a little moral support!  On here we can be as ‘me’ as we like.  We can shout, rant, rave or cry and no-one is going to judge.  I think until someone has been through or is going through the bereavement we go through on a regular basis then no-one has the right to tell us we are angry, or shouty or hormonal.  I’m all those and jolly proud that I haven’t turned into anything worse than that.  I say anyone who’s worried that I’ve only shouted at them, should be thankful I don’t have murderous intent!!!   

Good night ladies, sorry if I’ve ranted!!  I will hopefully be calmer in my next post!


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi Juliet ☺☺☺
Lol you made me laugh with the hot daddies comment !! I breathed a sigh of relief that it wasn't just me that had spotted that !! Its like an instant attractiveness booster !! 
Your advice to MissMayhem is really good....its very true that children can manipulate us and quite often parents can't see past their doting offspring.
Im so sorry for what happened to you at your dog walking group....you are 100% not alone....i have often been in exactly the same scenario....ppl discussing breeding dogs like its as simply as changing their food...all these tales of oh its bad, its this, its that...iv often felt second rate to ppls dogs that make motherhood sound like the most basic task. Iv event felt dewomanised (is that even a word ?) simply by hearing stories of how many litters a dog has had.....in relation to the illness side of things i don't think there is a connection.....mentally hugely but not so much physically. One time i joined a dog walking club and on one section we had to jump a rather treacherous cliff and one girl in the group roared out "hey im not jumping that i want to have kids some day ".....i felt like pushing her off !!! There i was enjoying my baby non related activity and this girl sets me off. She was lovely though so i got over it. But yeah its everywhere sneakily waiting to pounce.
So funny us all having the cowboy boots !! We've more in common than we even realise. We need to be a bit "me" on here and i love hearing everyone's stories . If we didn't release it here god knows what we'd do. Kierans gone all this week cycling and its been nice in a way to have space, just me and my 2 fluff monsters. Im proud as punch of them and adore their company. 
How is your puppy Juliet ? Their adolescent stage lasts for about 2 yrs !! Hehe you'll have lots of fun !!
Okey doke id better go eat my lunch...
Tlk soon guys xxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey Maria!!  Sometimes you have to laugh don't you - I actually find myself looking at articles about families or childbirth or whatever I find and all I'm thinking is 'that Daddy looks lovely'!!  It's awful!

People just assume that everyone can and will have children.  I suppose its not so odd as it seems that only for us very few does this not happen.  I do find it bizarre that I haven't met anyone like me.  Actually there was one couple at a wedding who were also going through it, but they were in London.  I feel like putting an ad in the local shop for all childless, depressed, middle-aged women to come to my house and get sloshed one night!!

We had some sort of good news yesterday - DH accepted a job offer.  Although he hotly followed that with 'but the salary isn't enough for you to give up work'....  It's not that I don't ever want to work, but if things were normal I would be at home with my kids and not stuck in a temp job that I hate!  Him saying that started me thinking all over again last night. I want one last IVF attempt, even if he doesn't agree!  I need to get out of my dead end job and life needs to get better somehow.

My puppy is nearly a one year old!!  June 6th is his birthday.  He's just wonderful and I adore him too much.  He's completely my baby!!  We had a 'dog whisperer' in the other day (well, DH did) to see if his fear of other dogs can be sorted (he has also bolted from DH in a park 2 miles away and run home!!).  The man was very complimentary and said he really didn't see much of a problem and that with a few ground rules during walks and putting him on a long training lead for the next 3 months, we should get a much more confident pup at the end of it.  I was so proud!

I'm glad you are having some 'you' time, recharging your me batteries and not having to think about anyone else - it's so therapeutic!  I went shopping with my sister last Saturday up in London and it was lovely just to have some girly time.  This weekend I'm extending the bank holiday and having Tuesday off too.  Just because I can!!  Anything to not be in my job...

Have a good day and talk to you soon! xxxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey Juliet ☺☺
Congrats to you and your hubby....thankfully thats one less worry now.  I also dream of not working....i think a lot of that is because our jobs put us in the firing line in regards to babies etc. My best friends pregnancy hasn't even phased me as its separate from work. I took tmr off too just to chill before heading off to Dublin for the pharmacy awards....im excited as i got a lovely floor length navy dress and pretty shoes !! Any excuse to shop !! We are all heading up on the train so it will be great to unwind and have a few glasses of wine!!
Iv always noticed German Shepherds are very nervous as pups and need time to grow into themselves. My neighbours is the same he is afraid of all other dogs and even cats...but they suddenly mature and become  protective then and after that they become really settled and much easier to handle.  They are our babies...and without them i wonder if id of kept my chin up at all.....on bad days they look at you with their big soulful eyes and you're obligated to just keep going for their sake ☺ 
I so wish we lived closer and i would  be over to get sloshed haha......even to meet for coffee etc would just be great......i think our little group has such a fantastic dynamic to it that we would all have a fantastic time or else all end up crying 😅😅😅
Ok better go start the tan and all the rest of the preparations !!
Tlk soon and enjoy your long weekend xxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Good morning!  Maria, how were your awards How lovely to have an excuse to buy a gorgeous dress and shoes!!!

I've had such a nice, relaxing weekend.  My aunt had a garden party on Sunday and nearly all my cousins were there with their children.  Apart from one adorable little girl, I didn't want any of them!!  I wasn't really envious and I didn't feel like the odd one out.  My cousins are such lovely people that it was simply a joy to see them all again.  No-one asked why I don't have any kids so there were no awkward moments.  I had some good conversations with one or two and it's surprising what things they have had to endure that I haven't.  We all have our crosses to bear.  I felt thankful that I had things they didn't, despite them having what I want most.  

DH and I also celebrated our 6th wedding anniversary on Monday - the weather was nice (ish!) and we went to a nice restaurant for lunch, so all was good.

Now back to work   .  I hope you and everyone on here has had a good bank holiday!  Speak soon
xxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi Juliet ☺☺
Thats really lovely to hear that you had a great day at your cousin's. ...its such a relief when we can actually enjoy these things and not be consumed by sadness. Its like feeling normal again for once . Haha im very like you with the selective child liking tenancy.....its only certain ones that make you go "i want one just like you". But its a great confidence boost to have been ok around so many....well done as we all know its not easy.
The awards were great, so glamorous and a great distraction. It felt good to live in the moment for once and to just laugh and enjoy myself.  The only bad thing was once i came hone my best friend lorraine told me that michelle (ex work colleague ) had approached her at her daughters bday and brought up the subject of her husband loosing it on me that time. She said he doesn't want you to think hes an animal because of how he spoke to maria but she had been ignoring him for a year so he didn't know how to react when she said hello !!!!! And then she said i called her baby it again !!!!!! I was enraged as i did not....luckily lorraine turned around and said "i heard every word and maria did not say that " i feel like asking her to call and talk it out as its so unfair hes using that as an excuse !!!!!! He's trying to justify his disgusting behaviour.  I keep thinking he will tell ppl oh shes a bitter person as she can't have kids and she called my baby it !!! Its so untrue as iv been 100 % normal with lorraines pregnancy and it was just work that was way too hard having it in ny face without escape !!! 
Sorry for ranting.....have a wonderful weekend guys xxxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

He is a horrible piece of work isn't he?  Apologising to your friend because he doesn't want to come across as bad, but not to you?  They both sound like horrible people.  They've got something so precious and all they can do is get at you for feeling hurt and devastated that you can't have that?  I detest people like that.  You need to eliminate them even from your conversation.  Don't even give them the air space.  I would say to your best friend that although she's being loyal, you don't need to hear anything bad from anyone, so best she doesn't inform you of anything about the pair of them.  If it's nice, fine, but it would be far better if you didn't hear anything again.  If you can try and never cross paths again, all the better.  If she returns to work, you can be civil but never get into a conversation with her.  It's the only way you can preserve yourself and that's the most important thing in the world.  I'd give these people a piece of my mind if I lived anywhere near you!  It's such a shame we're so far away!!  xxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Thanks Juliet ☺☺☺
Yeah your so right...to be honest iv come to realise that they have nothing to be jealous of and i would never trade places with her.....other than fertility they have nothing else that's in the least bit admirable. I will be civil and polite to her and thats it. Hate is such a negative so il just ignore him. Hope all is good with you and all. So wish we were closer too xx
Tlk soon guys xx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Good morning Maria...and anyone else!!  I'm having a sad day today.... last week my clinic phoned me to ask if I'd like to egg share and use our last vial of DH's sperm.  We discussed the option of the egg donor donating and the process going forward without my involvement until we know if there were embryos - so that I don't have to go through the emotional turmoil of taking drugs, hoping and then finding out the embryos all die again.  They would freeze any embryos and then my side of the treatment would begin.  I hate discussing this with DH - as you know he's 10 years older than me and feeling very much on the wind down to retirement.  But I plucked up the courage and last night we had a 2 hour conversation, mostly him saying how much he didn't want this, how it would ruin us, what if the reason our last embryos died was his sample and we gave birth to a child that was somehow deficient - either mentally or physically.  I could do nothing more than agree with him but say that I will never be complete, or happy, or anything until I have a child.  This is our last sample, so really our last go with a donor.  If it didn't work, I'd still be devastated for life, but I would have to draw a line in my 'hope' ohaving a baby.  If we don't try, we will have to stop freezing that remaining vial and have it disposed of.  There's nothing I can say to him to make him understand how empty I feel all the time.  I feel different, lost and afraid of the future.  So today I feel emotional and not in any mood to be here at work.    

And even worse - I'm going to be 45 on Wednesday!!  How old


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Ohh Juliet huge hugs to you lovely.  I don't quite know what to say,  that sounds like such a difficult conversation to have,  I think you both did well for it not to turn into a huge row, I know it would have here. I know so much what you mean about that feeling of emptiness and incompleteness.  It's so easy for others to say that we think a child will be easy and will only bring happiness but, suffice to say, the majority of those who say that have had children with ease. It's easy for them to say as they've absolutely NO idea how this destroys us and can threaten every aspect of our lives. I wish I could help your husband understand your pain and desperation too, I really do lovely. It sounds very final, having to make the decision about his sperm, it must be really,  really frightening for you. I know we probably talked about this before and know that we want to slap other people who say it but we're all in similar boats here so you know I don't mean it in the flippant,  insensitive,  simplistic way when I ask where you both are in considering adoption?  Does not moving forward with the donor option mean no other option for you?  I know we had a big row here last week as my husband won't do exercises with me to improve our communication;  to me that means we're highly unlikely to pass any adoption assessment. That makes me really uncertain for our future and unsettled us both as there is no way I can give up. Not because I won't but because I cannot.  That's what I think they really struggle to understand.  It's a matter of survival and identity for some of us, however dramatic and over the top that may sound to some. Am thinking of you and still here. If you ever post and need a response sooner message me as I'll get the notification straight away. Am so sorry you're hurting.Xxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Thank you so much MissMayhem..... it's just so difficult.  DH thinks I simply don't understand how difficult bringing up a healthy child can be let alone one that might have problems.  His experience with his two was not good - he was 21 and his girlfriend stopped taking contraception without telling him.  It resulted in him feeling forced to marry her, having another child so that the first wouldn't be lonely and then him leaving and trying to get custody of them which he lost.  It's easy to be horrible about your ex, but she had had a child before and told a different man it was his so he would give her maintenance.  After DH, she did the same thing - and his two boys, now adults, don't see much of her. One doesn't see her at all and hasn't since he was in his teens, the other is the younger one and still sees her.  So, for DH, kids come with problems.

I was thinking about fostering.  Adoption we did vaguely look into at the beginning, despite DH saying he simply didn't feel he could love a child that wasn't his.  Our rough estimate was that at our age, then 42 and 52, we would be considered for a young child, not a baby.  So an 8-ish year old.  I have no experience with children and DH was fairly realistic that with an 8 year old come huge problems that we would simply not be prepared for.  I have a gay friend who is on his own and is in the process of adopting.  He is a teacher, so well versed in child behaviour and he's in his 2nd year of the trials of being completely vetted in every way.  He recently went to an adoption 'party' (I think they call it) and bonded with a little boy - but another couple did too and they were chosen above him.  He's exhausted and emotional and has said this is his last year of trying.  He actually doesn't want biological children, so he's almost perfect for the job!

For DH it's simply that he's older, tired, worried about money and knows the pitfalls.  For me, my mental stability relies on me telling myself that it's ok, I will one day have a child.  I started getting terrible pulsatile tinnitus about 2 years before I was told I could start IVF and it's returning.  I try so hard not to panic but that panic then starts this hideous beating in my ear that keeps me awake and the cycle of panic and sleeplessness starts again.  He thinks I don't know how hard it'll be.  What he doesn't get is that I don't care.  I have nothing else but a dead end job and a very naughty puppy, what else am I to do with my life?

I'm so sorry to sound so hopeless!!  I think my impending 45th birthday isn't helping either.  After tomorrow I can stop focussing on my age.  I do think though, how do you get over your other half simply not wanting what you want?  I love him to bits.  But if he's stopping me getting what I need, do I walk away?  

Thank you for being there.  This is my little lifeline.


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Juliet you have absolutely no need to apologise. If you can't share your worries and feelings openly here, without having to dress them up so they're more palatable for others, then where can you? 

I thought there would be scarring from a bad experience along the line somewhere for your husband and now you've said about your step sons I remember your story.  Of course some of your husband's fears are valid,  finances, older child, bonding etc. But it also sounds like a lot of his reservations are linked to his past. Mine is quite similar,  cajoled into having a baby and then a dreadful experience after it. I don't think he would be able to bond fully with a child that wasn't biologically his, that said though before I came along he only saw his daughter for a few hours every few weeks

Of course having a child isn't a walk in the park but,  as you say,  we don't really care!  Your desire to be a mother is strong so I would imagine that you have that maternal drive in you somewhere,  not everyone does. I'd say that in itself will help even if you feel you're inexperienced with children. Yes some children are damaged from their early experiences but many others adapt and adjust remarkably well. Your adoption agency should give you proper training in attachment. But look it up too, a lot of it is common sense stuff that we intrinsically know yet forget when life takes over. There's an amazing woman called Mary Jones who does fantastic training on it though I know that last off she was looking to wind down her work a bit; worth asking about though. And remember too that, unless they work in the field,  most  parents have to operate a trial and error method. 

I worry about the adoption process too and it sounds like they're missing a trick with your friend. I feel so sad for him. All these things that people who have children naturally take so much for granted.  I'm like you with fostering.  I would love to do it full time but really don't think my husband could cope with it. And I couldn't cope with having to give a child back,  I'd get too attached.  I can remember supervising contact between a young mum and the most delectable little three year old a few years back and when he got adopted I was devastated. There's actually a really good programme on now Protecting Our Foster Kids, no BBC2 it's two episodes in now but am sure you'll get it on catch up. I'm going to try and get husband to watch it.

Only you will know if you have to walk away if your husband doesn't begin to share some of your needs. I'm trying to root myself in the now and not worry too much about what another failure will mean for my marriage but it's really hard and I fail most times. I have to be a mother though, that much I do know. I'm an ideal world it's a decision we would never have to make but if ideal existed we'd able to pop a baby out like the rest of the world seems able to.

I can understand why you're worried about your age but remember numbers are arbitrary, like the obligatory six months after treatment wait for adoption process to start. After my last cycle there was no way I was sufficiently recovered to start after six months. Now, I'm good to go even if this cycle fails the majority of my grieving is done. Try not to let everything overshadow your special day, you deserve to enjoy and be treated. Have you read Rocking The Life Unexpected? It helps lots of women find a Plan B, it's good but I've not finished reading it as decided I didn't want a plan B but some of it may be helpful for you

Huge hugs for you lovely.xxxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

So it sounds like you are going through a last cycle?  And then thinking of adoption as a way forward?  I wish I could even have a strategy other than 'get my own baby'!  I get furious with myself for my lack of ability to move beyond that which everyone else seems to have.  We didn't even get to an agency we really just researched online - I think DH's strong feelings against made me not push that.  I know what you mean about Fostering - I was reading an article yesterday about a prolific fosterer and she said it was hideous every time she had to let a baby go.  I wouldn't be able to.  I couldn't let my puppy go and we've had him for 9 months so perish the thought of a little person who has grown attached to you.

Thank you for all your kind words and for the book.  I'm not sure I'm ready to settle for my plan B but I think I need something to lean on.  I've been in contact with someone from here today who lives near me, so I'm hoping that we can meet and I will have even more support.  I hope your cycle is going smoothly, do keep me posted, I'm rooting for you..      
xxx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

How is lovely Juliet getting on today? You so shouldn't beat yourself up lovely, we're all different and have different ways of viewing things. The decisions we make are biggies, we need time to answer them in our minds and formulate plans, and we will all have different time frames to get there. I think of it like abusive relationships in a way, everyone in one will get to a point where enough is enough, but that time frame will be different for everyone. It's similar for us, these things take time.

Since I was young I always wanted to adopt. I always thought of myself as having a big family so thought I'd have one or two of my own and adopt as well. The irony eh!?  People throughout my experience of infertility kind of ruined that even more for me. I got so angry every time someone said 'why don't you just adopt?!' It was always offered as a solution. In the end I started saying the same back to them and watching them squirm as they tried to think of a response slightly more acceptable than 'well I don't need to'! So I dug my heels in for a while. I've calmed down a bit now! If it weren't for my husband I'd be going for a sibling group but he would never cope with that. He was totally against adoption for a long time but has come round a bit lately. We still don't know what will happen to us if we do need to go for it as I really worry that we wouldn't pass the assessment. We'll just have to see what happens

As far as the book goes, I definitely wasn't ready for a plan B but what was really good about it was it helps us examine our society and the pressure that is put on us to conform to something that our bodies either can or will not. I also found it really helped me channel and release the anger and pain that I was holding inside. It may not be for everyone but some of it helped me, and as I said I've not finished it yet.......I literally threw it when she started talking to me about my bloody plan B! 

Families can be very unconventional these days that's what I'm trying to accept. Do you know what your husband's views are on any other options? I've a very good friend same age as me, desperate for a baby. Her husband has three children, youngest is 19 now and doesn't want any more. He would, however, be more than happy to adopt with her or, strangely enough, support her with conceiving with a sperm donor (and would raise the child as his own with her) and has even told her to leave him so she can fulfil her dream  but she won't have any of it. She wants a baby with him and that's that. But it's not going to happen that way and, although she has the wonderful lifestyle that people claim you can have without kids (I don't, I can't afford it!  ), she remains desperately unhappy.

It may be worth talking to your husband about what his views are now. I didn't push it on mine either as I thought of a child at the end of it living with someone who has been honest that they wouldn't be able to properly love them. I said nothing but then out of the blue he said he would. Completely floored me as he rarely changes his mind and even more rarely does he ponder over something for long.

Hugs to you lovely, and you Maria, how are you getting on? Not bumping into that eejit still I hope? ! Xxxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hello Miss Mayhem, well today I am 45!!    It's actually not been too bad, despite me having to grit my teeth this morning and pretend to be jolly.  DH took me out to lunch and once I'd had a couple of glasses of fizz, I started to relax.  He asked me if I'd been in touch with the clinic and I said no, not after he'd made me cry every tear I had out of my body the other night when he'd said no to a last round..... he said I should contact them and I said I'm leaving it with him so I don't feel like I'm forcing him.  So I felt a little brighter.  Maybe there is a glimmer of hope that he will let me have that final go.  

You are very wise!  We do handle our trials differently and I suppose all have our own boiling point at which there can be no return.  DH did say to me when we began IVF that I should go and find someone to have a baby with.  I thought he'd gone mad!  The only reason I want one is because of him.  I don't think I could do it without him.  But I get so cross when he says no more, that the only way I could punish him is to go.  I'd be a wreck without him really and on my own, I definitely couldn't cope with a baby!

I got asked at work the other day if I had considered adoption.  People really do just trundle that off as the solution.  You are right to put that question back to them, most have never had to think what it would be like to bring up someone elses child that possibly has been through some very tough times.  Another one I hate is when they say it's not all it's cracked up to be, it's ever such hard work you know.  I want to punch people who say that.   

I'm glad your husband has come round.  Sometimes leaving them to think it through and not pressuring is the way forward.  It does sound such a gruelling process though.  I still hope for a miracle.  So many other people seem to have it.  There's a lady on here who has a blog - KB's infertility road....she has had countless IVF rounds, so many problems and for so many years and she has just given birth to twins, naturally.  It seems almost impossible that after everything, her body just worked.  And I hear so many of these stories.  A girl at work I was close-ish to had one little girl but couldn't fall pregnant again.  She gave up a while ago and just decided she was blessed with one.  She's now got 11 weeks to go til she has her second child.  I just wonder when my miracle will happen!

Anyway.  Time for another glass of something fizzy to finish off my birthday and thank you to you for being there when I need you!!!
xxx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Noooooo!! I missed your birthday Juliet!  Am so sorry.  Was so determined to check you were ok it completely slipped my mind! I'm like a drip!   Am so glad to hear that your hubby spoiled you with the sparkly stuff and really hope you enjoyed.  And little sparkly glimmers of hope too, he may well surprise you yet!   How are you getting feeling today?  No different from when your number was two 4s I bet!  "Happy Birthday!", you're officially a day younger now see, see what I did?!  xxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

LOL you did check I was ok, it was on the 17th - and it was comforting having you there to talk to!!  Not much has happened since really.  He's not contacted the clinic, but he has booked a break to Barcelona on Thursday for us.  Well, for him really!!  He's exhausted from fitting the kitchen (it's now taken him 3 months!) and he wanted a break.  I hate flying, so much that I don't really ever do it, but gave in and I'm trying not to think about it.  I do feel at the moment that life is about him.  Him doing the kitchen, him being tired, him needing a break, him not wanting a final round of IVF....  it's not that he's controlling, he's just living his own life and I'm waiting.  So this morning I contacted my clinic just to get the costs sorted and to ask a couple of questions about egg-sharing.  The idea from my nurse was that it would bring the cost down and still give us that last chance.  I've not told DH because I can't bear the atmosphere, so whilst he's sorting out his life, I shall quietly sort mine.  If we get to the top of our donor list, I guess I'll mention it to him then.  

How are you anyway?  You've been an angel to me recently, what's happening in your life?
xxxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys,
So so sorry about going awol......i don't know why really....so much news to catch up on here !!!!! Tears, laughter, pain and even little bits of hope !! I feel like i have more in common with the 2 of you than anyone else in the entire world and the whole bloody solar system too id imagine !!!! 
Im sick to death of nobody ever understanding this......im constantly angry and always on the brink of tears.
Happy belated bday to you Juliet.....im so so sorry i wasn't there when you needed me......Kierans dad died suddenly and its been so horrible in ways i can't even describe.....i think my own self pity has stopped me even being there for kieran at this time. God the funeral was awful.....seeing all the children in his family and the enormous pain that engulfs us......i wonder do we even know our own minds anymore.  I think im quite close to breaking, my anger is boiling over and im attacking the world in every direction.  I hate my job,  my life, my home, myself. All we do is fight everyday and they are getting so nasty but in a weird way something stops me trying to fix things.....almost like im punishing myself by continously pushing him away........iv even felt resentful to my dogs lately as if somehow i steped out of my bubble where i see them as children and the stark realisation has hit......i honestly am astounded at this.....i feel like someone else lately....someone i hate.  
I think you are both so brave and both are doing so well and i admire your drive so much. Im on holidays in west cork in the rain crying my eyes out and not even speaking to kieran. He's grieving his dad and im just empty as to how to console him and at a loss as to how to keep living like this. 
Im so sorry for having no comforting words or glimmers of hope....i really am....il write again later or tmr as i have to stop crying now for his sake.


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Your so welcome here Gailgegirl 💖💖💖💖
No need whatsover to apologise and i know everyone else on here will be as equally happy to have you join us. I loved what you wrote and i really agree with the cognitive thinking aspect. Our brains pattern match all our setbacks and everything is so overwhelming. I cried happy tears reading your words as your strength is so admirable. Again to have a common ground with you and all the other ladies on here gives me a huge boost. Please feel free to chat here any time you need as we can all help each other so much. Im from Ireland too so totally understand the beuocracy surrounding adoption. Where are you travelling for your ed  Im really considering doing this also but unsure as to where to go. Im really sorry for your losses and im wishing you the warmest of wishes for this turn. Please keep us updated and its great to have you here now.
You cheered me up enormously and its even stopped raining ! I walked the dogs earlier and we went for dinner and right now the world seems a little bit better.
Lots of love to everyone xxxx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Yes, welcome Gailegirl, and as Maria said, you're not intruding at all and have absolutely no need to apologise! I'm really sorry to hear about your losses, it's impossible to go through all this and not be scarred along the way, you must have had some very dark times when that was happening for you, i hope you didn't have to go through it on your own. It sounds like you had a good counsellor and great relationship with her, when you find the right one they can be worth their weight in gold! Ironically for me, mine was one I got to see through work, the IVF counsellor really wasn't that good, didn't even touch the surface yet discharged me on the premise that I was 'doing fine', never mind the fact that I'd gotten addicted to strong painkillers in the process. Yes I needed to be more open about that but at the time I was ashamed so if she didn't ask she didn't get. My other counsellor went right there with me, picked up on my mood and wanted to know what my coping mechanisms were, she was fantastic fair play to her!

Your idea of long term fostering is a really good one. A plan B for us yet maybe Juliet?! We were only talking about it the other day and all I could think of was the trauma when I had to part with that child, didn't think of long term. Used to work in that area too so that's a clear example of being too close to be able to see objectively. How are you feeling now lovely? It's a shame you don't like flying as there are so many options elsewhere, embryo donation, tandem cycles etc. How are things with your husband? I hope things have levelled off a bit. Sounds like you're making plans at least lovely.

And you Maria, my God what an awful lot you have on your plate! I'm so sorry to hear about your father in law. Sounds like a really difficult time for you all. I find funerals in Ireland really overwhelming, I lost my friend there and she was dead, home and buried all within two days. It was way too much for me to cope with and I wasn't able to grieve until I got back home. I'm not sure if your experience was similar as every family will be individual about it but it was just all too fast for me, over here we have at least a week between death and a funeral, sometimes longer, gives you time to process a bit I think. I think what Gailegirl said about hugging him and saying that was a beautiful way to address it. Perfect.

I really felt for you with your anger and even your temporary dissociation with your dogs! Your pain was so palpable I could almost touch it. It's good to hear that yesterday was a better day for you. Yesterday I spoke with someone I know who's also on this rollercoaster with us. Previously I'd envied her apparent poise, how could she continue to be such a good step mum, how could still work effortless in her job with children, how could she laugh at babies and people's constant ******** posts about them?! I couldn't, why could she?! Yesterday though it had all changed. She had plummeted, was still putting the brave face on to the world but was really struggling inside. My heart broke for her! She was where I was a few months back. So I guess that's the only thing I can add to what Gailegirl said, is that we simply have to feel this pain, we have to go through it and cannot avoid it, short cuts won't work. I feel like I'm preaching to the converted saying that as it sounds so stupid, how can we not feel it?! But I think what I mean is really feel (I think we talked about it before), so like for me, chucking prescription painkillers down my neck was my avoidance strategy. They numbed me a little and when the pain was overwhelming numbness felt good. But it didn't work long term and when I managed to stop them (and endure the horrendous withdrawal symptoms that that in itself brought) there it was, my pain there patiently waiting for me, as powerful as ever! So I was glad that I saw her yesterday as I was able to tell her that the feeling will shift, that she has to feel it and it's sh*t but she won't feel _that_ way forever. It felt good to be able to offer that reassurance to someone else. Just like it's kind of empowering listening to you say that in us supporting each other here we have helped you, and possibly others, Gailegirl.  In a world where we have so little control over anything it's good to know we are at least able to help in some way.

As for me, things have been up and down. Things at home with my stepdaughter are still strained to see the least. I keep telling myself to grow up and be adult about it but I feel so wounded it's unreal. My husband is being a miserable git, again, of late and hasn't spoken to me for the past two days as I said something to offend him. And in two weeks we're supposed to be going for treatment. So I'm not surprised that he picks now to be ultra sensitive, I've yet to have a cycle that hasn't had some enforced drama attached to it. Naively I was looking forward to a nice, relaxed, happy and straight forward cycle. Just not meant to be for me I don't think! But if I have to find a flip side, I have a new generator iron and, for the first time in my life, actually enjoy the ironing!! I may even do it on a regular basis at this rate!! 

Hope you're all well my lovelies,  to you all.xxxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi MissMayhem ☺☺☺
Thats so funny about your iron !!! I totally get it though ! I was exactly the same when i got a new hoover !! I think we get such enjoyment out of things we can actually control !! Things that just do what their meant to for once ! Your so right about the funeral set up here.....its so rushed and allows no time for grief, i never realised it was so different in other places, its way too intense here really. 
Totally agree with the councillor thing too....the ones attached to the clinics seem to think we are all doing great !! Another failing on the clinics side.....one of many huh 😧
Sorry to hear your dh is bit off too at the moment. They seem to have a knack at being annoying at the worst of times. Will they ever get it right i wonder and we all seem to want it much more than they do. It seems to be our primary focus but very much not theirs. I think its just how they are wired really and probably not even their fault in a strange way 😅😅
Im glad you had the chance to chat with your friend and to know none of us are truely alone on this journey. Lately i take solace in the fact others struggle too as it deflects us from our own self anger. Some ppls lives appear so utterly perfect on the outside yet who knows their inner struggles. 
I remember at the funeral his cousin cuddling her daughter and whispering to her " thanks baby you always give mommy the best hugs " and the anguish at wondering whether id ever have that connection. Selfish, jealous yes but mostly upset as its so fundamental to life.
I think it adds structure and in our case highlights the lack of it.
I feel back to my usual obsessive dog mommy status today thankfully and i hope i never feel like that again 😑
Your doing really well to still be holding out with your step daughter and that situation. The strain is something you really don't need. 2 weeks for you till things start !! Im really excited for you and lets all pray that it runs smoothly xx 
Could you imagine how happy our little group would be with good news for once !
Okey doke got to fly but tlk soon amigos ☺☺☺☺


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Can't sleep so followed the link to your story Gailegirl. You're amazing, just wanted to let you know that. I'm not religious either but want to believe there's something spiritual out there so will be saying a prayer that your transfer goes smoothly and those beautiful little babies that have gone elsewhere will look out for their little brother/sister and help them stay safely with their Mammy and Daddy. Big hugs to you, and for us all.   xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey guys ☺
Ohhhhh hope all is good Gailgegirl !!! Im so interested as to how you got on !!! Wishing you every success xxxx when your home and settled you must tell me all about Prague as it was where i was considering also .....relax and take things easy and let us know how your feeling when your up to it ☺☺☺
Which county are you from ? Im from Cork ☺


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Girls.....good morning, I've missed so much!  

Welcome Gailgegirl, it's lovely to have another kindred spirit on board!!  I'm at work and haven't had a chance to take in all your posts but I will read your story too when I'm settled at home.  I got back from Barcelona on Monday and then it was back to work yesterday - I too hate flying and had to take valium and gin and tonic for my flight home - it makes it so much more bearable.  I am wishing you all the prayers and luck and everything for your ET, we are all here waiting for good news and are with you all the way.  

Maria....oh I'm so sorry about your father-in-law.  How utterly awful.  I dread my parents going or DH's....and the older we get the nearer that seems.  What a terrible time you have had, it's so difficult to stay strong for him whilst you have all your own agonies to go through.  Whatever happens, we can never forget that we are continually grieving for what we don't have.  I wish you and Kieren lots of love   

Miss Mayhem.....your turn in two weeks' time.... I know exactly what you mean about never not having a stressful round.  My DH is constantly on edge whenever we are going through another cycle and it's always me pushing for another go.  As you know, I want our last final go and he has hesitantly agreed.  We had a lovely time in Barcelona, no fights, not strain, just 'us' again.  Yesterday our clinic called and we both missed the call but DH said, when I call her back to say yes.  I was so immensely grateful and felt very very close to him in that second.  However, he followed that with 'and if that doesn't work why not have a go next year or the year after..... and instantly I felt I'd lost him again.  Back to battle stations.  He doesn't want to do it.  I do.  Sigh.

But at least we're all still here to moan at share our stories.  It's lovely to talk to you all, I'm sorry I'm at work and can't say more.  Wishing you all a better day and a lot of sunshine.  Not sure what it's like in Ireland but in the UK it's ridiculously hot - and Prague must be hot too!


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Just popping on for a quick good morning!

Gailgegirl - I read a little of your blog this morning, and there were tears at work.  You write beautifully.  I never had a pregnancy confirmed, either clinical or chemical, but during my 2ww with one embie on board, I loved him as much as I could and felt devastated when I got a negative result.  You are so brave and I'm wishing you all the luck in Prague...


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys ☺☺
Hope everyone is good 💗💗 thanks Juliet for your kind words, life is getting back to normal again.....if there is such a thing as normal 😅😅 Ireland is not as lucky with the weather but its not torrential so thats a positive i suppose !!!
Gailgegirl you sound so good......your positive outlook is amazing......i can only imagine your excitment....i got goosebumps there picturing what it all must feel like......its really so amazing.....and im so thrilled for you that your there and this is all happening for you !!! Please keep us posted ☺☺☺
So funny about the massage table things like that always happen to me.....never happened in a spa yet though 😅😅😅
Miss mayhem we are all here rooting for you and all ready to help you every step of the way 💗💗💗
Juliet i understand your predicament, i too feel the same with Kieran...he wants it but feels we have plenty of time and should focus on moving homes first.......its so hard that conflict of necessity and impossible to bridge in ways 😧😧
He is consumed by cycling and other than me every other area of his life is happy........i don't have the ability he does to not need it right now. I hope so much though you get to try treatment again and that its really soon 💗
Please do pm me gg whenever uv time as its a minefield out there so its great to get some tips ☺☺
Tlk soon guys and positive thoughts 💗


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## pixie1230 (Aug 30, 2014)

Hello guys! Sorry I have been out for quite awhile now. Just dont know what to share with you guys, since my emotions has been up and down at the moment. I thought i accepted the fact that I wont be pregnant naturally. But everytime i heard doctors saying that my case is complicated, that theres nothing They can do. I feel like crying. I know Ive heard it for sooo many times now. Its been 3 years since i found out about my case but i still havent  accepted it, just keeps on stabbing my feelings over and over. 
I know IVF is not an option since my 2 last cycles this year, so I've thought about DEIVF or embryo donation in Prague. Had my consultation on skype this afternoon. But the doctor I spoke with earlier, doesn't seem optimistic with my treatment with them as well. I feel thay everyone is just quitting on me. No one wants to help me with my case. Everything that I have planned is just not going to work. Ivf, deivf, and embryo donation😞😞😞
I just feel so down right now. I just wish for this to stop. I dont want to feel like this forever. 
Everytime i see a family or a mother with child in the street. It just keeps on reminding me that I will never experience that. Sorry for venting on here, dh is just tired hearing this i think. 

By the way, a nun(my cousins friend) gave me a relic from bethlehem, its from the milk grotto. Many believe that the milk powder from the grotto heals women who are suffering from infertility. You just have to pour that  in a glass of water or milk  and drink  it everyday til it grants you a child. Googled it and saw many miracle stories out of it. I aint religious or anything. It's just i dont have anything to give me hope anymore. So we are trying everything, even miracles(if miracles really exist). I am in a hopeless case alreadY. Sometimes I wish to just end up in the a&e, so that doctors wont have excuses not to open me or have me on surgery. 
It's just so depressing, frustrating and full of disappointments. 
Hope you guys are having a goodnight sleep. And i am sorry for being negative in here. I know u guys are struggling as well but trying to be positive at the same time. 
Again sorry for this just want to express my feelings. xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey Pixie ☺☺☺
Don't ever feel sorry for venting, this is vent central and we all need to do it whenever we feel the need as for once ppl on here just get it !!!! We are all on the same page and its great ☺
Thats very demoralising for you that your doctor isn't more encouraging....i know the feeling when a doctor sits there and sayes yeah this isn't happening for you and it sucks. 😢😢😢
In a way i think we have all accepted our hurdles but they seem to never end.....one set back after another so its no wonder we feel down and broken at times.  Our partners never really get it quite like we do......they,as you put it "get sick of listening to it" and that only makes us feel worse.
That's interesting about that milk thing you mentioned, at this stage id roll in cow poo if i felt it would work 😅😅😅....in a way our threshold for suffering and endurance goes way up as a result of all this.
Your not alone, we are all here for you and at any stage pop on 💗💗💗. Who knows the outcome for any of us but i do know we will always pick each other up xxxx 
Enjoy your weekend Pixie and take it easy on yourself ☺☺☺


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Awww  pixie and like Maria said, no need to apologise for venting, am here to do it myself! Why is the clinic even so negative about donor egg? I think most of us here can absolutely identify with that crushing feeling and the pain of seeing others with what we crave so badly.   from us.

Julie and Maria, a bit of a plateau for you both at the minute? Any update with the clinical option Juliet? Thinking of you both. And you to Gailegirl, you are our bit of hope and positivity at the minute, thanks for making me smile with your stories as well as cry! 

As for me, bad times here. Set to travel for treatment next week and it's kicked off so bad that husband is threatening not to come and I've been like a wailing banshee and then some when I point out I should be calm and happy and he continues to ignore me I just go even more crazy! He hasn't spoken to me all week as I suggested using donor sperm as he clearly didn't want to travel amidst all those terror alerts about. I'm absolutely devastated, in such a state. I've told him how scared I am and how I just want this to be a nice time for us and it was just a total waste of breath. Need to contain my temper but am really struggling now!  sorry for me post xx


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## pixie1230 (Aug 30, 2014)

Thanks all! I feel like Im already bipolar because of this infertility issue. LOL 
Sometimes you are so down and sometimes you are accepting and happy already. 
Well, i thought DEIVF would be okay for me, but apparently, the doctor i spoke to, from Gennet, Prague said I need to sort out my hydro and endometriosis(which is not an option because cant do no more surgeries). 
I asked her why did HARI in Ireland let me go through 2 cycles of IVF, even if they know I have these issues. And now she is telling me I can't proceed to the treatment not unless i sort it out. She said the percentage would be really really low. I just want to take my chances even if It's just 0.01 percent chance. I am looking for a new clinic again, but just tired paying all the initial consultation and I will just hear the same thing over and over. Maybe I just need to really accept the fact that these fertility treatments is not also for me. I just feel that everything I do and thought about, is not an option, but I still keep on pushing and pushing. Was looking at surrogacy but it is expensive. If we are freakin' Angelie Jolie and Brad Pitt, everything is probably sorted by now. Life is so unfair!   
DH doesn't seem to bother with my issues lately. I am the only one researching about fertility treatments abroad, and I felt bad about it too because he seem not interested with this. He is just doing all these(DE and embryo donation) because I want to. He accepted the fact that, we wont be able to have a child on our own. I don't know how he accepted it easily.
Though he is looking forward to adoption next year in the Philippines. We've been offered 5 unborn babies already just this year. It's just we cant travel yet, because of work and things to do here in Ireland. I am open to adoption, but still want to try to conceive on my own. Less complications and explanations when the child grows up.  

Emptydreams, yeah we are currently drinking that milk grotto powder at the moment and hoping it'll work. OH well, Thats the only thing giving me Hope at the right now. They said if you ever get pregnant while you're on devotion with that relic, and there's some powder left. You have to give it to someone who is struggling to conceive as well. If i get to be pregnant with that powder, I swear to GOD, I will go to Bethlehem myself and offer my life. Hehehehe! Let's see how miracle will cure me 


Gailegirl, seems like you are enjoying yourself. Hopefully everything works out great for you. You're a lovely person and I wish you success in your journey. 

Hopefully we can meet all someday. I would like to have a chat with you all over a coffee or dinner maybe


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## nashipai (Dec 18, 2014)

Hello to all on this thread.  Sorry for crashing what is a really strong circle of friends.  Your honesty about the pain of ivf has helped me.  I am sobbing as I write this but know I do not need to explain about the horrible way the IVF journey makes you feel that reduces me to this. All the pain of it is there in your posts.  I am nearly there with this cycle but feel like I can't take anymore and then feel courage to continue only to be overwhelmed by anxiety and hopelessness.  I feel so guilty for asking for a child, for hating the sound of children playing in the park beneath my flat just because one of them is not mine and yet I am so happy for people who don't have this pain and then overwhelmingly jealous and resentful of them.  I even had a work colleague get pregnant thru ivf with twins and she looks so happy, she is off sick from positive test but even when she comes in I can't deal with it. I can't congratulate her. I am happy she has been successful but still ask why not me.  I feel so guilty for this and think no wonder I am not successful with this kind of rancid thought.

Your thread is the most beautiful I have read here as it is so honest and never shys from those deep harsh thoughts that come with IVF.  You also allow each other to feel negative.  There is never that embarrassed silence and distancing with the well meaning platitudes focussing on positivity.  If positivity got you pregnant I'd have a family of ten as that's who I was before this all started.  

I feel guilty that my situation is not so bad. There are issues but I respond ok to stims and have produced blasts and yet still this is not enough for me.  I want my own baby.  I have felt worse this second time. I reacted badly to the steroids having hallucinations and changed to nasal spray. The gonal f made me irritable and snappy and I hated making others feel bad.  Post EC I felt so scared waking up that I had an anxiety attack and now I am on progesterone I feel so tearful and worthless.  I want to be strong and feel so vulnerable, most of all I want my son and feel guilty for thinking of him.  The talk about thought patterns has helped so much as I know for transfer as soon as I am in that position his birth will flood back to me, it was not pleasant and there was a degree of thoughtlessness and negligence that caused complications.  My clinic tells me to be positive and let it go but that makes me feel worse like I'm a failure and unworthy of having a child when I think so much of the dead one.  I feel like I need to ask permission to continue to grieve for him.  All this makes me not want the transfer and then I think how cruel I am to think of abandoning them my embryos that are alone in the dark wondering where I am.  And then I think of the test and if it's negative will I cope, how much can I cope with until I shatter.  I don't believe I am as strong as the journeys on your signatures.  I have friends who support me but I feel all I do is ivf so the ones who don't know I distance myself from and those who do know, I talk but think I sound like Eeyore on a bad day and like I am obsessed with needing a child.  If they knew how bad I felt they would come running but that would make me feel even more worthless.

Thinking of running out on my transfer fills me with horror that I could be so selfish to get to this stage and bail out just because I am scared that my thoughts will be difficult.  I am admitting this to you as I read the posts about thoughts on having a child and not being able to cope and this in a way for me normalised my thoughts about my transfer.  Other threads talk about the excitement of transfer and cycling but I can't feel this as I know it is not a guarantee and even if it happens, a second anxious and unbearable journey will begin.  And again I ask myself what right do u have to do ivf if u can't be grateful and excited about the opportunity to get pregnant.  I am thankful I respond and that I can access ivf but I just feel with the uncertainty there is so much to loose.  I want it so much it scares me.

Your thread is not just about the negative thoughts you also share the everyday things that impact on you trying to create your family.  From one of the posts I have an image of a 99 year old toothless wrinkled grandmother playing AMH trumps.  A big grin on her face when she sees she had won by 0.005.  Such faith is placed in medicine and these test results because there is little else left to cling to. But even the tests don't reliably predict the outcome.  It is why I love reading Dr Malpani's site.  He is always full of such confidence and he almost brims over with his helpful info on IVF.  Reading him makes me think it's ok to fail and to just keep trying until it's time to give up.

Thank you for listening and I am sorry I elbowed in on your thread.  Just writing how I feel has helped.  I think I am cried out for the next couple of hours.
Take care of yourselves and I really wish success for you all whatever form it takes.


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Ohhh nashipai  reading your post brought me to tears. I am so glad that you found us and felt able to share, I think sharing our deepest darkest thoughts without fear of judgement or repercussion is one the most powerful things about this site, it literally can be a lifeline. Massive   to you

Gosh you have been through so much love, and you're being exceptionally hard on yourself you know. I think when we're in 'that' place where we're angry with the world, and ourselves, and our bodies for letting us down it can sometimes be hard to see things objectively. And the objective part of me can see that your fears and pain are absolutely valid. I beg anyone who has been through a quarter of what you have not to have those dark thoughts sometimes. You are allowed to feel whatever you feel lovely, it does NOT make you a bad person, or undeserving of treatment, because you feel it. You're grieving your beautiful baby, and by the sounds of it are grieving a lot more things too. Anger is part of the grieving process and if we don't allow ourselves to feel and go through any of the stages of grief we get stuck. So not only are your feelings valid and very real they are also kind of essential for you to be able to get through this. Not being able to have a child is without doubt THE hardest thing I have ever had to deal with in my life. But I have always said that the only thing worse is to have a child and lose it, wwhether it through death or adoption. So even though everything you said resonates really deeply with me, I know that you have been to a whole other level of pain that I can only begin to imagine. Failed IVF has brought me to my knees, I've nearly lost my relationship through it (stilp may) and have left my job through it. I cannot begin to imagine the strength required to pull through what you, gailegirl and others have been through. Perhaps it's time to take away the guilt from acknowledging those feelings and actually be proud of yourself for being where you are. It takes enormous strength and courage.

It sounds to me that you need your clinic to hear your fear and appreciate your pain and trauma. Yes it's great to be positive, but it sounds to me you need your little boy to be acknowledged. It would be nice if they could find that balance for you, yes focus on the positive, hope and positivity are essential, but take a minute to stop and actually listen to your fears and your pain for your little boy. At the risk of sounding like I'm forcing you to be positive and find solutions (sorry) have you had counselling at all? Some are rubbish but as I said recently some are worth their weight in gold. I wouldn't be surprised if you've a touch of PTSD as the birth and loss of your son was hugely traumatic. You've had so much loss in your life no wonder you're afraid to move forward, you're probably paralysed with fear after all you've been through. Unfortunately I think it takes us having to have been in the same or similar boats to be able to get close to empathising. Your friends are probably good friends who love you and want to be able to help, but like most of us here know, it's really hard for people to get how hard this hits.

Lovely I cannot believe that after losing your husband, your baby, your other relationship you think of your situation as being not 'that bad'. You have been through so much. But even if that were not the case the comparison to others' is not what matters, what matters is how you feel and how your circumstances are impacting on you. If it were about comparisons then I would be saying that my situation is not 'that bad' as, comparatively, it isn't. I've had failed cycles, yes, but only a few (as can't afford them!) But I've had no eggs, conversion to IUI and bled on my my other before OTD so no I've not had the joy of being pregnant but neither have I experienced the devastation of loss as some of you have. But by God my journey _has_ been that bad for me. We're all individual and will all have slightly different versions of a similar collective experience. Yours are just as valid as anyone else's lovely, absolutely so.

The beauty of this place is that we can share whatever we choose to. We need hope and we need positivity but it is equally important, and healing, to be able to share our pain. Particularly sharing it without fear of making others feel uncomfortable or respond with a 'oh come now you mustn't think like that'. It's also been lovely to hear this past few days that our chats here have been helping others, it's quite humbling really and lovely to hear of us described as 'old friends' eh Maria and Juliet?! There are afew of you in Ireland now so we may still get to run around Cork in our nighties yet! 

I must get some sleep now but wanted to respond in case you were awake and upset. The other girls will be along soon with their warmth and compassion. I hope you feel a bit better after your cry, releasing our pain can be rremarkably healing sometimes.....and my Chinese doctor says it rids the body of toxins too. .

Catch you soon, and will catch up on your other posts tomorrow girls. Love to you all, you amazing women you  xxx


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## nashipai (Dec 18, 2014)

Dear Miss Mayhem , I caught your reply this morning and cried once again not desolate tears but tears because I was understood and comforted by someone who understands.  I had an appointment at my clinic this morning I did not want to go and your reply gave me the strength and courage to attend.

I think you are right I am paralysed by the fear of loss - so insightful of you.  I also think it is important for me to make my clinic get my fears.  So this morning when the embryologist and Dr were discussing my embryos your words gave me the strength to tell them I am scared as for me each embryo has the potential to be a lost baby.  I do not know if they understood but it makes me feel more accepting of what I feel and that it is ok to feel this way.  That missing my son does not mean I love my embryos any less there is room in my heart for both they are one family.

I did try counselling through my GP after my son's death.  The same week as his heart stopped beating my mum was diagnosed with terminal cancer and died 5 weeks after him.  I nursed her during this time but couldn't mention my son as my family did not acknowledge him nor agree with my relationship with his father.  My mum did talk to me about how happy I looked in a photo with his father and how she was upset at my loss a couple of days before she died.  I am so grateful she did this as I would have wanted him to be loved by his grandparents as much as his cousins are.  Unsurprisingly when she died I fell apart hence the counselling and anti depressants.  I think I will try to access counselling again on my return (I cycle abroad).

I understand about leaving your job.  After his death I would change my job every 12 months to keep my mind occupied and to leave behind the echoes of my failure to get pregnant and my colleagues getting fat from their successful pregnancies.  I stay in my current job for maternity benefits so I know I have hope.

I hope your chap has settled with travelling abroad and can now focus on the strenuous journey ahead.  I hear what you say about planning for a cycle to be as stress free as possible.  In April I was so calm and ready, felt definitely zen but was scuppered by a ridiculous cyst.  It does seem the universe conspires against us.

I feel much calmer now and cannot thank you enough for your help ^hug me^.  I can see the time you replied was quite late and I hope you are managing to sleep in the run up to your cycle.  Take care of yourself and again thank you so much .......


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## nashipai (Dec 18, 2014)

Hi gailgegirl    thank you for replying.  I think I need to give permission to myself to feel all these negative thoughts.  I feel so weak and selfish feeling them and want to be strong so those close to me do not worry. Reading how others whom I admire ( all of you, your posts tell quite a story) experience similar dark thoughts helps so much.  Yes I also think it is time for outside objective help in talking things through.

Yes I think time is sometimes our enemy in more ways than one.  It moves quicker than I want making me feel the ground I walk on is unsafe.  It has the audacity to keep going when my world has stopped.  I have no idea how I could manage cycles knowing I had been pregnant and lost 7 times.  I do not think it would crush my need to be succesful but my strength to carry on I think would be running on empty.  You are my hero for keeping at it.  I too take solice in nature, not in a huggy tree dancing garland way but just the calmness of sunshine and breeze through leaves.

I also think those American Indians were a bit wise and although I am struggling to follow it the Wabanaki tribe believe that nothing encumbers movement more than fear which they say is often the most difficult burden to surrender.

I wish you luck on your wait .. I hope your embryo stays and is strong..... I also do that terrible thing of thinking of the next step after failure spending time trying to work out how to fit it in researching flights ....


Thank you for your kind words and sending hugs


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys ☺☺☺
Big warm welcome to you nashapei,  its so lovely to add a new person that just understands all of this. We are all here to help each other along. You've had an extremely hard journey and my sympathies to you for all that you have lost. We are always here for you to chat about anything you need to and this is a safe sanctuary for you to mourn and share your tradgic loss. You should never feel that you can't discuss your son. 
We can all learn from each other and help make each day a little easier. 
So many points resonated with me whilst reading everyones comments. I had a big cheesy grin hearing us described as a group of close friends because we really are in a very special way.......and im buying an extra fancy nightie in case that Cork trip transpires 😅😅😅. I can only imagine how it would be of we all met up !! To finally just be with ppl who get "it" without having to constantly either explain or excuse ppls ignorance.  My best friend is acting a little "amazing" lately, like her body is so fantastic for getting pregnant and how her husband should be in total awe of her......i agree he should but it makes me feel like a right old broken eejit on reflection. 
Kids in playgrounds drive me mad too and don't feel bad for this as its our minds protecting us in a way.  It's easier to be annoyed than heartbroken so im happy to go with this indirect emotion for now. My new pet hate is mothers goo gooing to babies in buggies.....it just gets under my skin !! I suppose i just don't need to see it or hear it so i just zone out......i can't remember the last time i acknowledged a baby actually !!!!!  But you know what......so what, it helps me so im sticking to it.
Thanks so much Gailgegirl,  i would love all your info. Wait a few weeks until your all settled as im in no rush and concentrate on you for now. You are very inspirational so use that strength now to focus on a positive outcome. I love nature too again not in a tree hugger way but i do own a few pairs of Birkenstocks 😅😅😅. Treat yourself like one of those disney princess's at the moment....sleep eat and think as positively as you can and i feel such good thoughts for you this time xxxx. So feet up and take it easy ☺☺☺
MissMayhem my advice to you on the arguments side is just force yourself to ignore ur dhs things that are upsetting you for now......your primary focus is being calm and content heading into this.  Men will always be a step behind us and are simple creatures (lol) so for now pretend you haven't argued and act if you have to but just be extra nice and maybe upbeat.....hard as hell i know but when we do this they respond very well and are such silly creatures they play along quite well !!! So maybe nice dinner or an evening out doing something ye both enjoy and watch him fall into the role you lead.  If they are in good form its half the battle and you need him on your side for this. They are crap as listening or consoling once we break down so it just becomes futile......so a nice steak and a bottle of red and try fall back into somewhat of a calm.  Vent on here instead xx 
Loads more i wanted to say but iv forgotten !! Pixie iv a visual of you in Bethlaham throwing yourself on your knees so don't give up hope missy 💗💗💗.
lol at this rate one of us will get locked up somewhere 😅😅😅😅
so together we stand ladies and together we fall and most importantly, together is how we get back up again xxx 
What good moms  we would all make huh ?? Iv often considered being seriously odd with my child if they ever arrive......kinda like well uv kept me waiting long enough so no your not getting a pony right 😅😅😅😅 
night guys and happy thoughts to all xxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Sorry for the typos im squinting at the screen on this phone 😅😅😅


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Nashipai welcome to our thread, I am so sorry for all that you are going through now and the horrible times you have had before.  I have cried at your post and feel every bit of your pain, anxiety and self-hatred.  We seem to take it upon ourselves to hate ourselves completely for not being able to do what ‘normal’ people can do and the strength of our hatred towards ourselves is like nothing I’ve ever experienced outside of IVF.  And yet on here, the warmth and love from everyone going through the same thing must give us hope that we are not useless, worthless nobodies.  Reading the words of my old friends on here and the newer posts, we are the most giving and forgiving people I’ve ever known.  I’ve read many times that on days when you look in the mirror and grimace because you are ugly, fat and worthless, you should stop a minute and ask if you would say that to your best friend.  All of us have felt exactly the same and yet all of us feel such warmth towards each other that we simply can’t be that worthless.

And that should start a little glimmer of hope in all of us.  We are good people.  All the bitterness and anger that we bottle up inside, or let out at smug, happy, irritating people is nothing compared to our strength that we keep carrying on.  We have to deal not only with ourselves, but there’s a very common link with all our DH’s – they just don’t want it as much as we do.  They don’t understand our insane desire to keep putting ourselves through the most awful misery.  But we don’t care.  I couldn’t care less if I’m old, tired, poor, anything.  As long as I can have the baby I long for most in the world.  DH doesn’t get it, and I hear this from all yours too.

Pixie, hello again lovely, I’m so sorry things are such a struggle at the moment.  I think we have all held out for our miracles and I so hope that your milk grotto powder is it!  I smiled at the thought of you on the first plane to Bethlehem when it finally works for you.  When it does, you know where we are!  But a glimmer of hope that you are adopting in the Phillipines?  Of course you want your own, but being offered the chance to give a loving home to someone desperately in need is the most amazing thing.  I think I could love ANYONE small who needed me now.  Sometimes I wonder if the clinics here really ever look at us as anything than a money spinner, they seem so uncaring and happy to let us go once we don’t give them the results they want for their statistics.  

Gailgegirl I am feeling your apprehension!  I’m wishing you rest and sleep and praying your little one hangs on in there.  You will be ok and we are all waiting with you.  We’re on your journey as we are with each other, so you are never alone.  

MissMayhem…what we going to do with that DH of yours…..I am so sorry that he is causing all this stress for you when you need to be calm and positive and looking forward.  Mine manages to hold fast no matter how upset I am and it makes me want to beat him to a pulp.   I can’t understand why he has to make an argument out of every time we have another cycle.  You are in this together no matter how nervous he is of the travel, or the outcome of your cycle, or whatever is making him act like this.  You and him.  You need him and you need him to be strong.  I try very hard when I’m up against mine to tell him how much he means to me and how I wouldn’t be doing this if it wasn’t for him.  I don’t know what words of wisdom I can offer you, but to try and be calm and focussed.  For some reason he is scared and if you can help him around that he may stop focussing on himself and start focussing on you.  He needs to read how wonderful you are on here to us all, that might help him focus.

Maria, just as I was typing this you popped up with your message and I laughed.  I would love to be the oddest mother around, just as payback for all the heartache I’ve been through – and I never got a pony so why should mine?  We’ve crossed over on a lot of things, but it’s good to hear you sounding a little lighthearted.  I hope you are having a slightly better time.

I can’t wait to one day meet you all.  Sometimes madness is the only way forward.
Goodnight all
xxxxx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Hi ladies, you might remember me from way back, good to see you ladies are still strong and as supportive as ever. I have been lurking and reading for a while and only now feel strong enough to say hello again.

Well I thought I had done it, I believed the dream had come true for me (which is mostly the reason I stopped posting on this thread) but as you can see from my profile it all came crashing down. I'm not sure how I wake up and get on with each day but somehow I do.

I don't want to bring a downer to this thread, I just want to join in with you ladies again as reading your comments makes me feel less alone and gives me strength.


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## nashipai (Dec 18, 2014)

Dear Alotsbl

I am new here and I am so sorry for your loss.  There are no words.  To get your dream and have it snatched away is cruelty too much to bear.  All I can say is grieve your own way, you are stronger than you know and try not to resent that strength (I know I hated mine) and remember you are a mother and hold on tight and hard to the memory of being a mother, try not to let the devastation of losing your child be the memory that shines the brightest.  I do not want to make your pain worse, it must be unbearable already and I hope I have not offended you by assuming I know how you are feeling.  Most of all be gentle with yourself    

I have only recently started to post here but I also find strength and understanding on this thread and feel less alone.  Take care


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## nashipai (Dec 18, 2014)

Dear Maria and JulietP     thank you for your welcome and kind words.  I agree JulietP that madness may be the way forward.  As for the ponies I may buy one for myself and ride on it to Cork wearing a fancy nightie.


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## nashipai (Dec 18, 2014)

Dearest gailgegirl     I am crying for you, your husband and your babies as I write this.  I am so very very sorry this is happening to you again.  I took an intro to counselling course many years ago and they told me the difference between empathy and sympathy is sympathy is crying in the ditch with someone and empathy is understanding and helping someone out of the ditch ... I understood this at the time ... but today all I want to do is sit in the ditch with you and let you cry    ... anything else would be an insult to the amazing resilience and courage you have shown through your journey.  After all the things you have gone through you already know how to get out of that ditch and I know you will find some form of  equilibrium, as unstable as that may be.  I have no words but know I am thinking of you and Alotsbi and I rage at the cruelty of the universe.  

I walked across the Thames today and decided water was my favourite element, the fluid nature of it, how it flows in whatever direction it needs to forming around obstacles, allowing them to pass through it's mass and always finding a way .... I wished I had all of those qualities.  I don't know if I believe in anything but I will whisper in the wind if there is anything out there to take care of you both.  Please be gentle with yourself.


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Thank you so so much ladies, it's means so much to have people to talk to that understand.

Gailgegirl, I'm so sorry, there are no words to comfort you but please take care of yourself, if you feel you need a break from the forum then do so but please  don't forget we are here for you, thinking of you, hoping we can help you in some little way. Please don't struggle alone.


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Gailgegirl i am so so sorry, there are no words to write that can convey the sadness you have in your heart. Your loss is a loss that resonates with each one of us and if we had a way to take away your pain we would in a heartbeat.  Im at a loss as to why this heartbreak happens to such kind people. I know none of us have met each other but the kindness of the people on here breaks through that barrier and i can honestly say that iv met some of the most wonderful ppl on here. Gailgegirl you deserve to be a mommy as your qualities shine from every aspect of you. Tonight i know the tears you cry, the tuck in your breath and the pain that stabs through your heart and your soul and as you describe that sickening bloody representation of our loss. I am here for you in anyway i can be.....if you need to cry or talk or write im here.  We will all be by your side and here for you always. 
Cry and let it out, be gentle on yourself and know you are someone we all aspire to and an amazing person. Take time to heal and anything i can do to help just let me know 💗💗💗💗
My heart is broken for you and i wish i could hug you and cry with you. Please take care of yourself and i will keep you in my thoughts xxxx 
Lots of love,
Maria


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Alotsbsl, I am so sorry you are back under such sad circumstances, what an awful time you have had.  I know how utterly devastated you must be and how much strength you must be relying on to just get out of bed.  I know so well that hopelessness and the one question we all keep asking again and again – why me?  It’s just not fair and not ok for us to be put through this agony again and again.  

Oh Gailgegirl, no……my heart breaks for you what terrible news, I am so sorry too.  You must be utterly exhausted.  We have all been holding our breath for you and now this horrible outcome.  We will miss you here, but please look after yourself and know that we are here whenever you are ready to come back, whether it be with good news or bad.  I feel like this thread always has a beacon of hope.  We might have had a million set-backs but none of us are quite ready to give up and we will be here to cheer you on again when you feel ready.

Wishing you both lots of love 
Juliet xxxx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Hi everyone just popping on thread before work to check in and send hugs to all.

I had a complete meltdown on Friday I couldn't stop crying and I know it really upset my DH, problem is apart from you ladies he is the only one I can talk to and I sometimes forget he is grieving to and the last thing I want to do is bring anymore heartache on him. Feeling better today, focusing on all the positives we have, like each other.

Gailgegirl, I'm glad you are feeling slightly more human, as im sure you are well aware time does slightly heal things, you go from crying everyday, to every other day, time won't heal us completely but I hope it makes us stronger.

Love to all xxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hello Gailgegirl, it's good to have you back and hopefully getting stronger every day.  I've been watching this board and hoping it wouldn't be too long before you returned.  I'm hoping we'll here from the others soon, there seems to be so much happening at the moment.  I met a lovely girl from another post last Saturday, my first actual contact with someone other than online and it was like taking a breath of fresh air - to sit and talk was so relieving.  To know someone else was like me and lived near me has helped enormously.  2 hours went in a flash and I came away feeling so grateful that she met me.  I am off to work now so have to keep this short but wanted to say I'm here and hoping things are easing every day for you. xxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Alotbsl - hello!  I just posted too...... I'm so sorry about your meltdown, sometimes we just have to give in to the grief in order to move on a little.  I hope something makes you smile today.  I'll be thinking of you.


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Helloyou wonderful bloody girls you!  Sorry I've been AWOL for a bit, coming back though and reading supportive posts that I'm not a part of enabled me to see what the girls who've joined us recently saw that encouraged them to join us. To be able to share your innermost feelings without worrying about someone either not understanding, or being worried for you, is absolutely priceless.       for you all.

Alotbsl I remember you from forever back, you helped me through some difficult times. I'm absolutely devastated for you and as Juliet said I can hardly even begin to imagine how you got through each day when that happened, in the months that followed, and now. I think it's so good that you've been able to express and release that emotion. Trying to protect others from it, even your DH, just puts more pressure on you though lovely and you can do without that. This is hard enough for you as it is without you having to worry for others too, and I'm sure if he had a choice of you talking to him or struggling on your own it would be a no brainer for him. I'm so sorry you had to come back under these circumstances but am really glad that you reached out and got some support here.    xxx

Same for you too Gailegirl. Am devastated for you too. I just read some of your post to my husband as he often doesn't 'get' it with me and when I try to explain to him I'm usually emotional and just can't express myself properly, yet you can seem to share your emotion so eloquently. My heart breaks for you. The utter devastation of having that tantalising bit of hope of a mild positive is probably worse than an outright failed cycle. It's nice that you're back here and feel able to talk a bit again. I hope you are finding strength from somewhere lovely.    xxx 

And lovely Juliet. How happy I am for you that you found someone close to you to meet in person. I don't think we could ever explain to anyone who has not experienced these things how hugely important it is to talk to someone who properly understands. I've found myself getting really angry with even my wonderful mother when trying to express my feelings as I know that it doesn't matter how hard she tries she can't even begin to imagine it..... I'm delighted for you. I've made a very close friend through this forum too and feel I can share pretty much anything with her. It's such a blessing. How about things with your husband, have you progressed any more since we spoke last? (Please don't say if you'd rather not) xxx

How about our Maria? How are things with you? How's your husband getting on after losing his dad? You had a good few pressure cooker moments there in a very small space of time. I hope that you're both doing ok.xxx

And you Nashipai. How beautifully you expressed yourself too. I reread your post and thought about what you said. I wish I could have some of those qualities too, oh to be able to adapt and adjust, and always find a way to get through those obstacles to what you want and need. Thinking of it I do sometimes have them I suppose, and I guess that's why this past few years has hurt so much. I  think 'knowing' us all here we probably work hard in life to achieve what we want and need. The only thing that refuses to follow this pattern for us are our God damn bodies. Perhaps if we failed at lots of other things this blow wouldn't be quite so crushing........maybe not though probably just wishful thinking.

We are bloody amazing going through all this and still being so caring and compassionate.  Hugs for us all  and everything crossed that we do one day take Cork and the world of the sexy nightie by storm....hopefully with happier hearts and our dreams realised in some way, shape or form.xx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Miss Mayhem, you're back!!  What a lovely post - you spent all of it being wonderful to all of us and didn't update us - what news of your recent travels, and that husband of yours??  

My news is that we will be having our last cycle at the end of this month.  It's a cautious one as we really don't expect it to work - my clinic have allowed us to basically stay out of the whole process as we are using frozen sperm and a donor egg.  I have asked that I am updated to a minimum and really would like to be told at blastocyst stage if we have any embies or not.  I don't want to go through the egg collection and daily updates to find that they all die on day 5 like last time.  So, whilst it goes on in the background, I try not to get any hope up but you can be sure I'll be here and using you all as a support when we get our negative.  I just HAD to have our last go.  

Have a happy Friday and a good weekend.  I am off to my parents tomorrow, so will try and pop on before I go.     to you all!
xxxx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Gailegirl I'm so sorry you don't have a bit more sensitivity from the people around you, it makes me so angry.  I'm glad though that you found a good counsellor,  they can be worth their weight in gold. She sounds fantastic and is properly acknowledging your pain and grief, and your babies. I'm glad that you've been able to do something special to mark your little ones, and that you're now finding the strength to do something for this baby too. You have been through so much. I'm not sure if it was here that I mentioned it but the things some of us go through (and I think I'm relatively lucky in that respect that my losses have been immediate) is bound to result in post traumatic stress disorder for some of us, yet as you say others just expect us to put a brave face on and get on with it. Huge    for you xxxx

Juliet I'm delighted that your husband is on board and totally get your reticence and anxiety around cycling again lovely. I completely agree with your approach, sometimes too much knowledge is more damaging in the long run, found out that myself recently. You can sit back and switch off and we will carry the excitement for you instead!  If good wishes alone would get us our dreams we'd all be like the old woman who lived in a shoe! 

You asked about that husband of mine. Where was I last with him?! Just ready to kill him, post arrest, smiling through gritted teeth?! Well he's still alive.....just!  Ohhh I want to share so much but am scared that I'll jinx myself. Long and short is we had an eventful trip away, to say the least (missed flights, dirty first hotel room, miserable husband, reaction to medication.....  ) But the long and short is I came back PUPO and am meant to test next week. I don't want to, I want to stay firmly ensconced in my bubble. Am feeling every twinge in my body, as we do.   Got my stepdaughter up this weekend too and am still on edge after all that. Hate myself for it but I just can't be bothered with it anymore, don't want to see her.  Other than that I'm kind of ok, I think.  

Sending you all lots of love, am off down my mother's for the evening, try and distract myself, hope you all have some little nice thing planned.  If it's this weekend you're getting your kite I will wish for some lovely fresh, Irish winds for you Gailegirl . TTake care all.xx


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## nashipai (Dec 18, 2014)

Hello to the amazing people on this thread who have made me want to be  part of fertility friends.  There is a tendency for positivity on other threads that is absolutely not wrong and I am positive helps all those that post .... I firmly believe you should do whatever gets you through the darkness as long as you survive and accept the survival is a step towards living.  I read a book about a girl who had been horrifically abused in my late 20's and I took 2 statements from her that I use today .. the first is the title of the book "Cry Hard and swim" and the second was " at what point do you stop surviving and start living" because there is a huge difference between these that is not fully recognised.  My own mantra (sometimes) as I agree sleep is a respite is " that which wakes me reminds me I am not dead" and for me this eases the pain slightly it feels like two fingers up to the injustice of our losses and trials.

Alotsbi what a beautiful person you are in the depths of your despair to reach out to comfort others a true example of strength of character and unselfishness. Step by step and day by day so very slowly think you will own your pain and it will not beat you.  I cried everywhere on buses, in the street, in coffee shops, when shopping, my GP said to me it's London - nobody cares ... cry but don't be ashamed. Keep going and keep your hope hidden and safe, I know for me it was my lifesaver and I shared it with no-one.

Empty Dreams whose honesty started this thread and gave us all a safe place to come to you are the catalyst that helped to ease our pain and make it normal.  You should be proud of that strength and in your troubles your ability to comfort others shows what an amazing person you are and what a fabulous balanced thoughtful mum you are and how any child would be lucky to have you as their mum.


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## nashipai (Dec 18, 2014)

Gailgegirl I am so pleased to see you return.  I think your repeated chemicals are torturous.  One could bring hope that at least implantation happened but repeat ones are just too much loss to bear.  You deserve to have success and I can see just how much love you have to give to a child.  I don't want you to give up .... I want you to find success to be a mummy in whatever road it takes. I can relate to the disconnection you felt about your embryos ..... for me my head could not connect it bore too much pain, my heart felt too fragile to love but the deepest part of me secretly embraced those tentative things with such fierce hidden love.  Keep putting one foot in front of the other as slow as that may be.

Juliet P the first to jump to support others and offer reassurance inspiring others to do the same.  You too are an amazing selfless person whose strength is like iron.  I too disconnected for the 5 days of cell division telling the embryologist I did not want updates .... this wait is not an embryo race it is a painful  slow process that has the potential to leave you bereft with all hope torn away.  And a sadness for the embryos that fell at the hurdles.  Keep your hope hidden, hide it in a jar like Pandora when she finally learnt the value of it and understood she should not give it away but keep it close and safe.  It is the most valuable emotion we own.

I hope you had a good stay with your parents.


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## nashipai (Dec 18, 2014)

And finally Miss Mayhem whose intuition would mean no child of hers would ever feel alone.  Your ability to guide others toward solutions without making them feel useless is so very precious and that gentle guidance is a skill few posses.

My last cycle was disastrous and left me so low as you all know. I could not eat and at the end of the 4 weeks I looked so gaunt a friend advised me to get tested for thyroid issues or cancer.  I think what most RE' s are shy to admit is if an embryo' s going to implant it will implant although there are small things they can do and advise to assist.

This cycle I did not test until the very last as I did not want to experience the heartbreak and bereavement of a failed cycle.  I say don't test until you are ready you are doing no physical harm and psychologically you are so intuitive you will know when the time is right.  And sometimes I think it is kinder of our bodies to tell us a cycle has failed than that stark black and white bhcg.    and so many prayers, thoughts and threats and promises to the universe you get your positive.


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## nashipai (Dec 18, 2014)

Finally me and the reason I have been away from the thread although every day I have read and re-read from the beginning even when there have been no new posts.

I truly believed my cycle was a bust. I delayed testing and finally did a hpt that showed a disappearing thin positive that disappeared and did not darken. 3 days later after dark dark days of endless tears and defeat I booked a bhcg to end the unknowing.  I took a hpt the morning of the test and the line was darker.  I collapsed internally, I felt like ice, I had resigned myself to a negative and this, what was it.  I could not do this I thought not again I can not be pregnant I am so scared and I feel numb.  I could not feel anything for that vulnerable "thing" inside me just fear and horror of the next 9 months or less.  I took the bhcg and it was 412.  Pregnant a definitive, no margin of error.  My shame at how I felt, my self loathing was all consuming. I repeated the test at my clinics request 917, it was sticking.

Tentatively though, my heart opened up and I curled around that tiny thing in amazement and love.  I still can't fully open my head it is cool and focused but remains only loosely attached but my soul is fierce with protection and love.  I do not know what will happen I do not have a history of making good babies or having good luck but we can not predict the future.  My hope is a quilt that warms my baby and I will love it always no matter if it destroys me.

This thread has always been honest and I wanted to be honest as I think any positive although hard won, dreamed of and sacrificed for will be difficult for all of us although different for each of us in ways, because of the trials taken to achieve it and the tentative and unpredictability of pregnancy post infertility.  Please do not think I am ungrateful or do not want my baby my heart sings with joy when I seperate my positive from my past like fresh snow compared to grey sludge.  I also pray my honesty has not offended any of you.

I also know you my dear friends will have mixed feelings for me but all will have an overwhelming feeling of happiness for me.  But the negative feelings you will have are not because you are bad or cruel or even really directed to pregnant people they are rage at the injustice of our negatives and our losses, feelings I share with you and for you.  The greatest sadness I feel is that i should no longer post and be a part of this thread.  I know you will all protest but there is a smugness about pregnant people that is always there and there is no way I want this smugness to magnify your undeserved pain.  The negative thoughts I will feel through this uncertain period do not belong here but know I am lurking, praying and journeying with you.  And trust me if applicable I will be back here knowing there will be open arms to unconditionally comfort me.

I love you all and your braveness and honesty will continue to inspire me


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## nashipai (Dec 18, 2014)




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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Oh Nashipai, you lovely person!  What an amazingly thoughtful post and such wonderful news….. we will all be wishing you so much love and success on the road ahead and hope that your only reason to pop back on is to keep in touch.  Good news gives us all hope that next time it will be our turn so don’t desert us completely! xxx

Gailgegirl hello and how strong you must be not to rant and rave at your family and their ability to treat your loss as if you’ve stubbed your toe.  It is the same everywhere, people look sympathetic but have no idea of the feeling of emptiness and bewilderment.  I would hide myself away until I could cope with their everyday lives and it’s been a couple of years until now when I feel I can switch to auto mode and smile and join in without wanting to rip people’s eyes out.  This forum is such a safe haven when all around you just carry on.  Here we can sit and be our true selves without any pressure.  It sounds like you have done such beautiful things for your lost babies, I am so glad the counselling has helped you.  

Miss Mayhem, I am beyond pleased for you.  A living husband and a 2ww…… I’m feeling your nerves!  After all the anger and uncertainty before your trip this is the best news that can have come out of that.  You take life gently and do as little as possible in the next week.  I will be praying hard for you and your positive outcome, we all will. 

Lots of love to all you ladies…


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Oh goodness I wish I could put feelings into words like you ladies do so well. I feel such a taker on this thread as you all write such amazing uplifting posts that truly lift my spirits. I'm not very good at writing long posts but please don't think I'm not thinking of you all.


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys 
Sooooo much news !!!sorry for going awol again no excuse really !!Nashipai I'm so happy  for you..your proof that it can happen  and  that sends us a message to never give up......please don't  leave as we will miss you and I think we would love  to know about your wonderful  journey. My heart is smiling  as wide as my mouth and I have a warm fluffy feeling inside for you. How truly  wonderful xxxxx I'm sending you lots of love 
Juliet I'm really happy your dh is moving  along with you and I'm so rooting  for  you....you were my first friend on here and on many a dark day the only light that lifted my soul.....I pray for your dreams to come through. Miss Mayhem I'm sooooo excited for you too !!!!!! How are things now and how are you feeling ? Please pop on and  update us when you can xxxxx you always make me laugh with your  wit and your writing touches  my heart as the goodness of your character beams through. I wish for you also that your dreams come through.
Alotbsl how are you ?? Please never feel like you have to be positive on here.....all you ever need to be is true to yourself and we are here to pick you up always. Where do you feel you stand  with things now ?? When you feel down just pop on as together we will pick up each  others  broken hearts 
Gaeilgegirl I so get the insensitivity  of others at our  loss but their failings  in relation to empathy are their failings  and not ours....from all of this our characters  develop  and strengthen  and in a way our emotional  capacity to help others increases. You  are wonderful and you deserve what you wish  for so dearly.
Pixie  how are you how are things ??
I'm on my phone so hope I haven't  missed anyone.....each one of you has helped me feel ok on my darkest days and I have felt such unique warmth from each of you  
Nothing new on a personal level......I don't  really know how I feel at the moment.......that's a little scary  as I'm not entirely sure if I'm happily plodding along  or simply  pushing the dreaded meltdown emotions  into some dark compartmentalised  section of my brain.
I dearly wish we could all meet somehow......I feel very strongly that  the understanding and solace  we gain  from each other is imeasurable. Your so lucky to have met up Juliet . Was is hard to  see someone else's raw pain in person  ?what was it like ??
So much love to you all guys and always remember  we are kindred spirits  xxxxx
Ps my dog has developed a new habit of licking my toes whilst I type !!!!!yok  maybe that's why iv gone awol actually.....time for  slippers !!!!!  lots of love guys 
Congratulations  to  every single new life and to every possible new life on here xxxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Maria!  You made me cry!    I’m so glad I managed to help you in the beginning as all of you have been there for me.  It’s incredibly touching that we keep each other going even though we’ve never met!  I have to say my coffee morning with this lovely lady wasn’t heartbreaking or difficult.  In fact it was a huge relief to pour out all the difficult times and laugh at the similarities in our experiences with other people and all the long line of emotions that we all seem to go through.  It’s amazing to share so much personal information with a complete stranger face to face, but she was just lovely and supportive.  The only downside that I didn’t think about was that she has finished her journey and mine still has one more go – whilst she was more than lovely, her parting comment was that if I am unlucky enough to be in her position after my last go, to get in touch and she’ll introduce me to more people who live round here.  I simply hadn’t thought that the possibility of a positive outcome might be too painful for her.  I was just so excited that I’d found someone!!  

I totally understand you being in a state of limbo.  Plodding along is good – real life has to continue and being in a state of hideously depressed emotions or expectant excitement isn’t possible in the long term.  Keep plodding and enjoy other things until the time comes for other emotions.  I always remember in my youth hating being ‘bored’ and whilst I also hated the downs, it seemed like the ups and downs were preferable.  Now though, as we all know, our downs are just too much, so I think plodding is preferable.  

Alotbsl – there is never a need to write too much on here.  Just being with us and letting us know you are there is good enough for us all.  Much of the time I write just before I go to work so I can’t sit and ponder too deeply, but whether you are taking strength from us or giving us words of wisdom, we want you here!!  Some times just sharing the sorrow is enough.  I hope today is a little better for you.  I have a feeling from the past that you might live near me – as in Sussex or Surrey or thereabouts?  The lady I met was from a Kent group and she is simply lovely.  I asked her if she would meet anyone and she said yes – it helps her, it helps them and it brings more people like us together.  If you ever feel strong enough then she is a tower of strength.  

Now time to touch up my make-up and go to work.  Love to you all


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Awwh Juliet big hugs and I hope the make up was ok !!!I always blame my hayfever for my puffy eyed mornings 😅😅😅
I'm feeling very appreciative  for all the good things in my life today...even though I feel like I'm getting the flu 😅 but health  and friends and someone  to share your life with are things we all take  for granted and don't  get me started on puppies or handbags or wine 🙈🙈🙈
...so today I say what will be will be.. and my plodding continues !!
Maybe my flu tablets have gone to my head 😅😅😅 tlk soon guys xx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Sorry I've been quiet girls. Unfortunately it was a negative for us again. Not one for fussing when I'm like this so no doubt will shut down for a while until I get my head around it and figure out what next.  Hope everyone's doing ok, will have a proper catch up soon. xx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

I'm so sorry missmayhem


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## nashipai (Dec 18, 2014)

I just can't read and run .... so sorry Miss Mayhem, really wanted it to work this time for you ...      please take care of yourself xx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

My best friend has just told me she is to become a grandma. 
It's bad enough friends having children but grandchildren!  I must say she has been so sensitive about it, not telling me sooner due to my loss, waiting until I was in a better place ( if I ever will be) before telling me. She even was removing posts from her ******** page so I wouldn't find out until she could tell me herself. 

It just seems so unfair, I love my friend dearly but her son is a nice boy but not exactly in the best place to become a father, he's one of those that I think has got his girlfriend pregnant just to keep up with his mates. 

I know it won't change my relationship with my friend, at least I hope not but I just can't get over how unfair things are. Sorry just needed to get that off my chest.

As for me on the fertility journey, we are waiting to see what fate has in store. My DH has been tested for chromosome abnormality if it comes back normal we can go ahead with our remaining frosties, if it comes back abnormal, well I guess that's the end of our long journey. Test results should be ready any day now, to say I'm nervous is an understatement.


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Miss Mayhem......
God I don't know why this has happened  to you again...I'm so angry at the world  right now......why oh why can't  things  just work out 😢😢😢😢 this is just so God damn unfair in every way possible. 
I know it doesn't  mean much but I am here for  you and will always be. You are not alone, we all stand behind  you and until your strong enough  to stand  again we will all be here for you. None of us should suffer this pain. 
Alotbsl I sooooo know what you mean.....if there was a cv for having babies we would all get 5 stars  yet so many absolute unsuitable people keep  popping them out 😠😠😠 so bloody  annoying !!!! Tonight  I'm angry for our little group full of such amazing  ppl that are just facing knock after knock.....give us a break please 😢😢😢😢😢😢


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Oh Miss Mayhem....my heart breaks for you.  I am so sorry.......it's so unfair and exhausting and just bloody awful.......we have been there before and some of us will be there again.  Lock yourself away and be as angry as you need.  I feel this so much for you and I know that you just never want to come out of it again because to drag yourself up into happiness is just too hard.  We are all here for you and will wait til you are ready to come back and talk.  Hang on in there lovely....sending you a million


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Alotbsl, hey.....a horrible wait for you at the moment and more 'friend' news to steel yourself against.  It doesn't sound like the most wanted of pregnancies and if it's to keep up with his friends that's very sad.  I used to feel very very angry with people like that, but more nowadays, I feel pity that they will have ruined their young lives and won't enjoy being a parent like they should.  Being a grandparent is also very different - I have a friend who has just become a grandparent and she feels rather detached.  It does enable me to talk about the baby without much emotion as she doesn't really feel it either.  I hope the news fades a little and you can continue your friendship without the constant reminder....She sounds lovely to have been so sensitive to your feelings - one in a million according to all our experiences!  I will be keeping everything crossed for your results..


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Hey girls hope you're all hanging in there! Thanks for your support, I just had to shut down for a few days there, think zoning out is how I coped this time. Funny how we do different things each time huh?! I was terrified that I'd end up back like I was this time last year and for a long time after it. I've surprised myself with how pragmatic I've been. I've just blanked it, not particularly healthy and not done consciously but is how it's happened. And I think our brains do what we need them to do at any given point.

That said though, I'm a simmering ball of rage against anyone who is pregnant without having to go through any of the trouble that we have. Girl I used to work with, who could be nice enough but generally was so self absorbed it made her a vile person to be around. Used to constantly talk of anything pregnancy related despite knowing my ccircumstances, 'my family friends are just uber fertile', 'my period is late after that one night stand,  hahaha only joking ohh your face when I said that!' The list goes on.  I've never wished infertility on anybody but with her I must admit I used to hope that she'd struggle for a bit when she eventually met someone, used to think give her a good year of trying before she has success, teach her a bit of humility, give her a bit of empathy. No such  luck, she met a bloke came off the pill, few weeks later, voilà!  Had to delete her number off my phone as she's kindly shared her scan picture via phone too. Nice to see she's still all heart and thought for others. I officially f*cking HATE her. Excuse the language but, as I said, rage is ruling at the minute......and this is me coping well! 

Had a funeral last week and had to stand, on test day, listening to my cousins, who know I'm having difficulties, go on and on and on about how she's teething now, and he's talking now, and the twins are so funny, yeah she's crawling,  no he's walking now, blah blah blah. I wanted to explode, I wanted to scream at them to shut up, I wanted to punch every one of them for so easily having what I don't. Even my cousin who's gay has it. I love her but hate her too at the minute as she's not had the pain of month in month out having your period despite having swallowed whatever supplement, whatever concoction, had whatever  acupuncture needle stuck in you, lain in whatever conspicuous position for x amount of minutes so you help the sperm on their way, just in case. No she goes out with wife, buys some sperm, home inseminates and, again, voilà!  If I wasn't so bereft myself I'd be happy for them.

And I have a well meaning woman in the 'same' boat as me offering all sorts of advice and platitudes despite already being a mother herself, natural conception, no issues, feeling 'broody' because her friend is pregnant so that'll be hard and make her more broody when it comes. Or perhaps it is a little different for her because she has a child already, no sh*t Sherlock, try not wanting to be alive any more if you can't be a mother not just feeling a 'little broody'. But oh, what's that?! Oh I already AM a mother because I have a step child!!! Aaarrrggghhhh.  [email protected]@k @ff!!!! Ooooooph! Knew I was angry but didn't realise that was all waiting to come out!! Apologies.  For my language.  Not for how I feel,  I think I'm perfectly entitled to feel the way I do, we all are. It's sh*t and it's not bloody fair. And when a lot of the time people who have kids so effortlessly don't deserve them to begin with, like my step child's mother (I hate her too!!), it just adds insult to injury. God, admitting to all those feelings without a shred of guilt feels so liberating

Sooooo. Anyway. Back to us.  Alotbsl am sorry to hear about your friend's son. Lovely to see her love for though, that'll get you through this. Hope everything comes back ok with the tests. Been reading your signature too, can't believe you were refused funding. How on earth did they so categorically come to that conclusion about your own eggs?! They seem very sure in a game that is notorious for its grey areas and ambiguity. Empty follicles too, usual to have one or two apparently but if you've grown good crop of follies realistically there should at least be an egg or two amongst them. Happened to me on my 'best' cycle. I reckon they let me stim too long and trigger too late, I'd already ovulated. Impossible they said. No, unusual maybe, but not impossible. 

Maria. Juliet. What's news you pair of lovelies you?! Any  move from limbo? Any move forward with the clinic? Gailegirl how are you getting on now? Did you go fly your kite for your beautiful baby? And, last but not least, Nashipai. Wow. Congratulations!! How are you now? I hope your feeling of shame has passed, shame that you couldn't feel unadulterated joy. Of course why would you lovely? As wonderful as that news was you have been stung too many times in the past to be able to just let go and enjoy it, I hope that feeling has gone now and you brain is allowing you to begin to fully feel the joy you so desperately want to embrace. You won't become smug lovely, you're like us - too war wounded and battle scarred to ever dbe smug. That's the only beauty of our shared pain, we are privileged enough to truly learn what it is to empathise, and what gifts we have given each other in doing so. Small consolation maybe but I have a wonderful friend who's taught me to always try and see the flip side........so I guess that's one good thing.  Huge hugs and thanks to you all. A nicely destressed (Now I've vented!) MissM!   xxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Miss Mayhem!! I felt every word of your post and I hate everyone for you!! Vile, selfish, smug, pathetic people!!!!  I also go through stages of wishing the most awful fates on a lot of people.  I stare at large juggernauts and wonder how squished they would be if they accidentally fell under one?  Or fell off a cliff.  Ooh, or just simply blew up.  All that raging anger feels so good when you let it out so good on you girl, you hate as many people as you can -I bet everyone reading your post is nodding and welling up with anger too!!!  I get most angry for you about the stepmother bit.  I imagine being a stepmother to a child who loves you and is happy is difficult enough, but with the problems you have had, I think giving her the title step-daughter is just not right.  She's just a child in your life and that doesn't make it a fulfilling relationship or ever make up for not having your own.  You might as well pick up your next door neighbour's kid and say that's comfort enough, you're in the vicinity of a child so why don't you feel better?  aaaaaaaaaargh!!  .

Phew.  Morning rage, maybe today anyone who tries to drive into me (TWO people yesterday) might just get more than a swear-word shouted at them.  I may just get out of my car and punch them!!!  

Anyway, more later Miss M.  I have to dash to work but wanted to be with you and let you know that anyone I punch today will be for you!!
xxxxxxx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Oh ladies after reading the last posts from you all I have laughed and cried and fist punched the air along with everyone, yes let's let out the grief, the anger, shout and cry, wish terrible things on others,  we should do whatever we bloody hell we like. Be strong ladies, you are all amazing I just wish we could all meet up and have a rant together.


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Sooooo........do you really think it's safe for us to meet up?! I thought the idea of parading through Cork in our not so sexy nighties was a good idea until I pictured us as an angry, marauding mob unleashing our angst on everyone. Cork is a very pretty place, be a shame to sit our visit out in a cell with the Gards!!  On a serious note though, thank you all for your support. It's so good to be understood and not judged but it is horrible to think that your comments and solidarity mean that you too feel the same pain, I hate that you have to.  I'm glad I was honest though and didn't keep it to myself as the validation I got from you guys was indescribably helpful.

The things we have to endure that people say is another trial in itself isn't it. Gosh, poor 'cousin Beth' Gailegirl. Who on EARTH said that to you?! I want to beg you to tell me that it wasn't somebody who knows of your situation but I'm terrified that, of course, they do!   I chat to a girl elsewhere who very innocently and accidentally mentioned a family member's pregnancy to another family member. The pregnant family member went ballistic and attacked her infertility saying all kinds of sickeningly cruel things to her. I wanted to attack her on behalf of each and every one of us. I know people can be insensitive but she just took it to a whole other level, deliberately.  

So my update is I've had another funeral. This time ferried my aunt also, who is lovely and would be mortified by what I'm about to say, but who sat in the back of my car and talked incessantly about who is pregnant and who has a baby with who and who else is a grandparent now. I could see my poor mother physically slither further and further down in her seat, desperately trying not to be rude to her sister but not wanting to encourage her chatter to go on any longer than it was going to.

So I bit my lip and, as funeral was for a younger friend's mother, was determined to appreciate what I do have (a fantastically amazing mother) wanted to do something nice with my mother afterwards. So we went to the shops and instead of pulling neatly into the parking space I decided to smash my (new!) car into the side of its parked neighbour! I didn't even hear the crunch, just my mother's gasp as she watched me do it literally in slow motion! £600 worth of damage to the other girl's car. Bless her, she popped to the shop before work and had a zombie annihilate her (also new!) car. 

Today we woke to a power cut and, cutting a very long story short which included the possibility of me accidentally but very dangerously shorting our whole electricity supply with my steam cleaner (don't ask!), discovered that our cooker has finally given up the ghost and is clearly so bad that our complete system just doesn't want to play if even the switch is down let alone the cooker on. So we have the joys of finding the excess for my insurance plus a new cooker and electrician to fit it

My declaration from now on is either not to drive or to do so with my eyes closed.......so  I don't see any more bloody single magpies!! Why can't I see two, or even three or four, give me as many of those as you want!  That flip side though, I have to still try and find it, is that my recent failure and whole IVF journey in general, mmeans that I really am not bothered about any of this, it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things does it.

The only thing that's really triggered my anger since I last posted is something that really should make me happy. IUI. My old NHS clinic has finally, after five years, sorted (kind of) its IUI service so I can go in next week for an appointment if I want.  Here's the bit that gripped me though (and I know it's shouldn't complain as disgustingly some of you can't get any funded treatment so I know I'm lucky, I'm just annoyed comparatively with others in my area) - our local authority funds three cycles of it but I can have just the one.........you guessed it, because of my age!!!! Aaarrrggghhhh!  I would've been 35 having treatment if they'd not closed the WHOLE SERVICE the day I was to start injecting. I was livid. I know I should be grateful too though. What would you guys do in that position? My husband is of the mindset that the IUI and IVF has failed that it's pointless trying it again. I absolutely want to try but am worried about my little shrivelled ovary too, we didn't get any implantation at all this time with  Grade A blasts I'm a bit worried about drugging my ovary again 'just' for an IUI (not minimising it just told with two ovaries my chances of of success with IVF were 2%) Any thoughts?

Thanks for your support with my step daughter too Juliet. It's sad that I thought of her as my daughter for a long time, I just considered that she had three parents,  hopefully that feeling will come back one day.   Step parenting and infertility can be the most cruel of combinations though. Our latest update is that my step daughter has admitted that she lied and exaggerated things about me in order to 'shock' her worker and get a reaction. Apparently she is so used to, and fed up of, nothing she says having  ANY impact with her mother all, she wanted to do something that would have a big impact. I had just told her off for something so I copped it. She didn't think far ahead enough to consider long term consequences, ie, losing her relationship with me, she simply though of the immediate: making an impact on me and making an impact in general. She also said that I am her mother, that I'm everything she wants her mother to be and is angry as she knows that she'll never be a proper parent to her. I'm kind of floored by it all. I'm relieved beyond belief that she's admitted to lying. I understand all the wanting to make an impact and be heard. And I'm hurt that it's me and, to a lesser extent, her father who were attacked after doing everything in our power to counterbalance her mothers neglect. Have explained to her the concept of 'cutting off you nose to spite your face' and tried to (still without slagging her mother off, something wrong with me!) discourage her from being controlling and manipulative. I don't know how things will pan out. The flip side (again!  ) though is that I've now said to her that, unless it's in relation to her care, I do not want to hear about her mother anymore. Why a child her age talks about their parent as much as her is beyond me anyway, doing it when I'm desperate to have what her mother has and takes for granted just hurts and infuriates.

So that's me! Planted the seed with my husband about whether we try again or separate. Not what I want despite how tough things have been. But I have a sneaking suspicion that he's never going to adopt, keeps telling me to wait every time I go to progress with it. Well one way or another I have to get a move on so have had to ask him to quietly think about it. I hope thait he says treatment, and then adoption if it doesn't work again. But for now I must think positive. He's been really good with me this time around, so credit where it's due - didn't bat an eyelid when I smashed the car, me being ok is most important as it's just a piece of metal apparently, we've only had it three months! He has a lot of good qualities, I see that when I'm angry with every pregnant woman in creation and not him.......so another flip side! 

So I've rambled on and on. Am sorry for being such a me post. I'm not feeling particularly 'me', the other stuff I've listed I've literally either laughed or shrugged off. It's the 'us' stuff that's still gripping me. You all knew exactly how I felt, and you knew because you've had to be there, or in a worse place, too many times. There used to be a post on here, 3 Yays and a Grrr, did anyone used to read it? I did but couldn't often post as struggled to find three whole yays.  Am thinking it may be time for me to try again. Vent my frustration the same time as positive thinking.  Can't hurt can it?!

Sorry for going on......

Thinking of you all and sending you lots of love. Please keep your fists to yourselves.  Mentally I think we can carry on indulging ourselves with the squishing and squooshing though! Have a lovely weekend all in case I don't catch you tomorrow. .      xxx


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## nashipai (Dec 18, 2014)

Miss Mayhem ... 
I just can't believe your luck! Now I can see why you chose your name .... the money to be forked out and time and effort to fix everything not to mention dismay at dented metal is annoying but your life is full of mayhem .... I think all those people (relatives) included who can only talk about whose dropping sprogs with who just need to buy a new car and drive it blindfolded whilst shoving a knitting needle into a power socket and then they will have more to talk about and maybe a slight empathy for those who live life as it should be lived embracing all emotions and experiences whether good or bad and actually feeling not just playing at feeling.

All those that get pregnant "unexpectedly" by just sniffing sperm I imagine their lives after the baby is born and this is what I imagine .. if they have a boy it p*ss*s in their eye and they get really bad leaky conjunctivitis that the discharge goes green and they have to face the world with this ... an they are tired as they were completely unprepared for motherhood so changing a nappy the child s**ts on their hand and they don't notice or dont clean properly and then they eat a sandwich licking their fingers afterwards which is when they realise they have just eaten a sh*t sandwich .... why this ... well to go back to my incredibly eloquent teenage years I think infertility (and the lack of understanding from those who have not experienced it personally or been affected by it closely) is like having p*ss in your eye and eating a sh*t sandwich every day so just want to share so everyone in the world can understand and not be so gauche around us ....      

As for the IUI I would do it but I know I am not ready to give up just yet and my decision is only mine .. for you it is more difficult as you need to consider your husband too ... I think men sometimes say easy answer to everything and then later have regrets ... I also think it takes the risk of loosing something to realise just how much you want it so maybe when he thinks about how much you are willing to give up to get your dream he may just realise how much he is ready to endure to get that dream with you and be by your side when it happens ....  Maybe with the protocol try to find out what meds have worked for other ladies who have had low response/similar issues as you ... I am not so good with this as my problems are structural more than anything ....

As for meeting up I think if we did our tears would create the kindest of oceans that any city would be proud to have!  

I'll do 3 yays ..... the feel of sun on my skin .... the sound of rain ..... a bacon sandwich  one grrrr ... f**kin infertility ...


My journey of uncertainty begins again .... I had early scan due to pain/history at 5 weeks .... measurements and bhcg ok but gestational sac abnormal so have a repeat scan at 7 weeks  .... the time for this is nearly here and I do not want to know because I know my body carries abnormal babies nearly to term before saying actually this isn't going to work, here's what you have loved for the past 61/2 months  ... your baby will never cry best wishes from your uterus xx  BUT I have found an obstetrician who says little (probably because he is a man) what he says is measured (probably because he is scared of me as he has known me do crazy things in his clinic when I am stressed) and smiles a lot (probably because when I was angry once I asked if he had any teeth as he never smiled) and it kind of works .... I trust him which is so difficult as my pregnancy care was not all it could be first time around ... so I will see what happens .... 

I read this thread all the time and I am with all of you as you keep walking on such hard and unkind paths  .... I am not a big fan of the "be positive" club but I do believe in hope and that we never know what the future keeps for us and that if we can just get the right set of circumstances that anything can be achieved xxxxxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Guys I actually can't explain  how much I just love all of ye 😅😅😅😅 catching  up on posts here is just amazing. Good God  miss Mayhem what a time you have had !!!!!! I love your husbands words  it's only a bit of metal  !!! He is so right ☺ 
Lol I'm so glad to read everyone's temper is as bad !!!I was way too morto to admit mine was as nuclear but now reading this I feel vendicated  !!!! I have wanted to kill ppl in shopping centres and do Jackie chan moves  to every God damn pregnant woman I see 😅😅😅😅. The entertainment  I get out of commenting to myself on ugly snotty  faced kids!!!! 
My heart breaks for you miss m with all those absolute morons  around you going on and on.
...wouldn't  you love to roar  at them to shut their stupid f*****g mouths and go jump  off a cliff !!!!! Oh wow you spread your legs and your ugly ass husband  got you preggers.....so here you go have the Nobel peace prize and I hope your flaky faced child knocks it over and smashes it......you know another tip.......picture the effects of sleep deprivation  on them and just think  how  we can nap anytime  we bloody well want to ( q your fluffy diamante  pillow Gaeilgegirl girl 😅)
I met these 2 lesbians  one night (and no not that way!!!) I help out in an animal  rescue and I had to drop a dog to them.
....so anyway long story short they had a 2 yr old and started to tell me that they met a sperm donar in a hotel, a total stranger too and after he produced  a sample  she popped it into herself with a 2 euro syringe and got pregnant  😠😠😠 she proceeds to tell me how hard it was......well how I didn't fat lip her and her droopy boobed gf on the spot  !!!! Try spending  8000 and leaving with nothing !!!!! 
I loose it driving too and if I'm honest I'm enjoying my new temper as no one  messes  with me now 😅😅 
Guys how I'd love to meet ye and what  a lovely comment about the sea of compassionate tears and  i must  admit I'm loving  the angry mob visual  too !!!!
How ye cheer me up is amazing !! I'm off kayaking  tmr in lough hyne....the algae is fluorescent there at night but knowing  my luck il fall in or have a fight with kieran and sulk the whole way round 😅😅😅.
On the subject of those drop their knickers chicks I think what they have in egg quality we have in wit and character and I'd pick all of ye to spend an evening with over them anytime 👍👍👍 
Guys I just  love this group and feel such a connection  with ye all ☺☺☺have a great weekend girls xxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Nashipai  I wanted to say big hugs to you and we are all behind you through this. I can imagine your worry but deep breath in and breath the stress out ☺☺☺ we are all so happy for you and filled with joy and excitement for you  xxxx take it easy and wrap yourself  in positive energy.  Have a fantastic weekend and let yourself dream and  focus and enjoy every little part of the expierance xxx
Lots of love 
Maria


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Thanks for making me smile girls!! Some may read this and think we're bitter twisted buggers but, for me, the relief of being able to vent these not so pretty feelings is enormous. And to have you share your own similar thoughts and feelings and validate mine? Well, that's just incredibly powerful. Don't get me wrong I'm all for positivity but some there are some threads I read where someone is so obviously hurting yet is surrounded by sooo much positivity that I feel their true feelings are not actually being heard, and I think that can be dangerous as well as damaging. Yes we need hope, yes we need support, yes we need positivity. But we also need to be properly heard, and need honesty and realism, as horrendous as that reality is a lot of the time. I think we find the balance here. I'm with Maria, I think we're awesome too! 

Nashipai, you made me laugh, and your analogy was good. Initially I just thought you meant the blindfolded driving was just a reference to how unhinged we feel, well I do anyway, a lot!  But you're right, infertility is sh*t. It can't be dressed up any other way.

I'm glad that you've managed to build a small bit of trust in this doctor. That's a huge thing for you, not just after your experience but also after how dismissive tho nurses were last off. In the name of positivity so with good intention no doubt but it wasn't helpful for you. Your anxiety is going to be hard to manage every step of the way lovely. Really hope that the news is, and continues to be, good from now on in for you. Please remember that we're here for you - if you get smug we'll tell you off! 

Maria no quarrelling with Kieran, make sure he wears a life jacket just in case your road rage translates to water! 
Hope everyone else is ok. Huge hugs to you all. And I'll leave you with at least one yay from me......guess what I saw earlier?! TWO Magpies!!  xx Have a good one xx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Morning all you fab ladies. Must just share with you what I did yesterday. 

I was walking home from work and a car was blocking the path, I could see a lady getting out a baby in a carrier so I pretended to be engrossed on my phone while I waited. Another lady got out and apologied for blocking the way to which I politely looked up and said no problem. If she had left it there it would have been fine but no she obviously wanted me to gush at the baby, she said very excitedly 'do you want a look, she was only born yesterday' to which I snapped back at her ' no I don't thank you, I had a stillborn 2 months ago' Her face was a picture, she did say she was so sorry but luckily there was a break in the traffic and I could make a swift escape across the road. I hope she thinks again before trying to push her happiness on someone else. 

Well my DH chromosome results are back and totally unexpected they are all normal. Of course we are happy as we have a chance to try with our 3 remaining frosties but it does leave a lot of questions for us as to why our baby had the heart abnormality, was it just ' bad luck' could any couple be that unlucky? It just seems to much that after all our issues we are still that 1 in 4000 ( or whatever the stats are) that get hit with that situation. The clinic said there is no reason why the frosties would have the same abnormality. I'm just glad our journey didn't end on the chromosomes being abnormal because if we had known that from the start we wouldn't have spent the last 6 years putting ourselves through all this.

Anyway love to you all, have a great weekend.


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Just  a quick one but wanted to say well done to you alotbsl, I'm beyond  proud of you for how you dealt with that  situation. We all need to react the same way and I find it liberating  to say  no I don't  want your happiness rammed down my throat. Anytime iv applied this tactic I feel better afterwards and I think it's essential  to our mental health. Well done and I'm so proud. Together  we stand and say "enough is enough "
Lol miss m driving down  now and picturing pushing him over  !!! He's  a perfect swimmer (no pun intended lol ) so I'd only be wasting my time 😅😅😅😅 only joking he's not even annoying  me (that much) today !!
Tlk soon guys xxxx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Wow, well done alotbsl. I guess that felt liberating as it's society that forces the pressuree, to be pathologically happy for others, to conform. I'm really proud of you too and I hope that woman, yes ccontinues to enjoy and celebrate her baby,  but has a new found respect and awareness of what others may be going through. Well done you and huge     because it must have been hard and sounds a bit like you were trapped.  As if the universe didn't deal enough sh*t your way already!  My mother is amazing and has been fantastic through all this but nearly had a coronary once when a woman who we know told me (whilst serving me in the shop and had a queue full of people behind me) that I was cruel for not making my mother a grandmother as she would make an amazing one so I should 'get a move on' because I said I was very close to telling her the truth. You'd swear I was going to commit the most heinous crime, never mind how upset I was and that I had to go back to work and deal with very difficult people immediately after that,  I HAD to be considerate of her feelings, never mind mine! Of course people don't do it on purpose but they clearly live in a bubble (which admittedly I did also) where infertility doesn't even come onto to the radar. God, we're going to be so considerate when we're mothers we'll be even more amazing than we are now!  Happy lazy Sunday everyone, have a good one and glad to hear he's not getting on your nerves Maria. ..........much!  I quite like mine lately too, I'll like him even more when he leaves me have the house to myself later!  xx


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## K jade (Aug 11, 2013)

Ladies I've just been reading the last few posts here and sadly am not surprised at the ignorance u have had to face
Alitbsl MASSIVE well done for standing up for yourself and educating a member of the public about IF. U honestly should have been v.proud of that 
I have read some awful stories of insensitivity and discrimination displayed towards people battling IF, on this site and elsewhere, and also experienced it myself
Over recent weeks I've come to the realisation enough is enough, and I will be writing to INfertility network UK to ask them exactly what action they are taking to tackle these attitudes and ignorance. I'm going to suggest a "think before you ask" campaign, and take it from there.
Its not on that IF remains the last taboo and its about Time things change

I have started a thread on the Coping with Infertility board and will keep it updated 
how I get on
Best wishes
K


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Hi ladies and thanks for the support in my little outburst at that lady, I wasn't sure If I should have done it but now I'm glad I did, why should we always be protecting other people's feelings all the time when ours are never even considered.

Hi kjade, fab campaign idea. I really think IF awareness should be seriously addressed, problem is the fertiles as I like to call them don't see IF as an problem and don't realise the extent of misery it is causing thousands of couples.


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Absolutely alotbsl, most of the time I can do it but then sometimes I think why should we be considerate all the time when it's hardly ever reciprocated. Hi K jade I will go and bookmark your post now. Let us know how you get on, I think your idea is fantastic.  I posted infertility facts, myths and advice every day for the week last year for awareness week. I was surprised at the number of people who messaged me who had undisclosed issues but wasn't surprised at number who paid no attention to it whatsoever.  One woman even posted her grandchild's scan photo seconds after 'liking' one of my posts. People can be unbelievable sometimes. Good luck with your campaign I hope they back it.xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Welcome Kjade and hi everyone ☺☺
I love your idea Kjade and I definitely think it's the way forward. Look at the effort and media attention  gone into changing the stigma attached to mental illness so  why should infertility be treated any differently  as it's equally an illness. Ppl need to cop on and stop to think. If you want any help let me know as I'd love to do something  proactively to change ppls outlook on this. How many more of us are out there being hurt day in day out due to ignorance. If ppl just  stopped to think about it they might realise that sometimes  the whole world isn't  full of joy because  there's another baby in it. And society  paints us in the wrong as jealous or bitter whereas  the truth is that sometimes ppl know our pain and continue  to ram baby pics etc at us everyday. Put simply they are not nice ppl and in a sense are egotistical catering  to their own egos.
I think society needs a huge wake up call and it's on a multiple  level that ppl need to change. 
Firstly become aware and in due course  sensitive to those affected. 
Secondly more transparency in relation to treatments and a concentrated  approach to free treatments and some  actual  recognition  of infertility as an illness. 
Thirdly some form of regulation to be aimed at clinics in relation to standards of practising, pricing and level  of service received. And a massive  overhaul  of alternative practiconers claiming to help with infertility and simply fleecing a vulnerable section of society
I feel the privacy involved coupled  with the shame and the secrecy  element  only worsens our pain and facilitates clinics and even society to get away and turn away.
Together we stand and let's hope change is on the way ☺☺


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Ps the midnight  kayaking  was amazing so let's add that to our bucket list for our meet up.....it was completely  dark  and every time you disturbed the water surface  the plankton came  to life and glowed like a trillion stars. I thought of you all and found it so peaceful  ☺☺ 
Tlk later as back to work ☺☺


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Wow…hello girls, so much has been going on over the weekend – you all make me think of ‘Angry Birds’!!!!   It’s good to hear you all in fighting spirit and Alotbsl, well bl**dy done!!  There are times when I wish I had the presence of mind to say something cutting to someone smug, but you did us all proud!!!

Miss Mayhem oh my goodness what you’ve been through!!!  It sounds like you need a dark room and a lot of chocolate.  And wine.!!!  As for IUI….all I can say is if it was me I would keep going until I was 100 years old, just in case it worked that one time….. until money and life run out of me, I will continue to hope, pray and try the impossible.  

Maria, your kayaking sounds amazing…I love nature and wonderful miracles like that, how fantastic to have seen such a lovely sight!

Hell K Jade and welcome to our thread – what a good idea, I’d love to see more awareness for what we are all going through.

Nashipai….you must be feeling so apprehensive at the moment.  We are so with you on this and I’m so glad you’ve found someone you can trust.  It makes everything that much more bearable when you know you are not being fobbed off with an excuse.

As for me in a moment of deepness I have been feeling very calm this weekend.  I’m not sure if I’m starting to accept my situation but I feel this:  we are all the same, we who can’t be mothers and those who can.  We may go to the end of our lives with no-one beneath us, but we may meet more wonderful people alongside us than we could ever hope for.  There are mothers out there who hate their children and children who vow never to see their families again.  But our friends we make on the way are the people who are going to get us through this.  And us girls on here are all the same and we sound a lively, lovely, worthwhile bunch of girls to me.

Let’s hope the start to your week wasn’t as boring as mine!!  Too tired already and a boring day at the office!
Lots of love to you all xxxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey Gaeilgegirl  ☺☺
I was just bringing the dogs for a walk and I had a quick look on here and I'm sitting here with 2 impatient dogs brimming over with 1000 different  emotions after reading your post.......every single  thing you said was like a bell ringing in my ear. That article you read sounds very interesting, I do believe alot of the shame  we stack on ourselves  is society  induced. It's like the 7 point plan to life.....do this, buy this, buy a bigger one, have 3 babies, be a size 8 the next day and so  on and so on. And it's maddening  when we accept we need help to conceive  and take the necessary steps and it still doesn't  happen!!!!  Yet we struggle on and tiptoe through the daily minefields all the time holding the grenade pin loosely in place 😨
Is  your blog on here or on ** ?? Would it be ok to follow you ?  Totally understand  if you would prefer to keep your blog separate.
I can't really explain the connection  I feel towards everyone on here but even reading your story of your younger years I cried and smiled and laughed almost like I was there watching it all or sitting watching a movie. I was quite introverted as a child but somewhere along the line I became far more extroverted. Not in a loud brash way but just very much not afraid to stand up for myself and speak out if I ever felt the need. My parents died whilst I was young so I lived with my sister, she was a lot older and my time there was unhappy. I felt like a mouse unable to speak up and looking back I was treated horribly by her. Lol that's another story but one thing that resonates from everyone on here is their acute self awareness and sensitivity. I feel in away infertility makes us open up old wounds and reflect  on things we may not otherwise  have even thought about. It's a catalyst  to other feelings of pain etc and as you said it does change us in a fundamental way. 
Date night sounds really cool I try to do that a bit too and it helps. And we do have time to indulge ourselves unlike many parents do
On Sunday evening  we passed a car crash....we were 4 cars back and everyone was out of their cars. A lady had turned her car over and the wheels were still spinning, a babyseat was on the side of the road but no sign of a baby and her screams and sobs crying out for her baby, was one of the most helpless things iv seen. It made me realise living itself is a daily gift and no one knows their future. I found out all survived with only minor injuries.
So I'd better walk  these 2 as they are very much not impressed but just wanted to say how wonderful your post was and how equally wonderful  everyone's posts are. I'm entranced like a new Netflix  series and it's so amazing we have each other along this bumpy potholed filled road xxxx


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## nashipai (Dec 18, 2014)

Hey everyone. For this post I will start with me. The scan was all good, so many positives still early but today I can breathe. My Dr spent about an hour with me and told me he could listen to a baby's heartbeat all day!  Growth is normal and sac is now perfect ... for today I am happy, this is enough.  I have to travel far to see my Dr but it is so worth it.  Some people don't understand why but I ask them to just let me be with this.

Alotsbi I cheered for your results, so pleased you can begin to think and consider your next options and so proud of you for sticking up for all of us. I get asked all the time if I have children .... sometimes I will say I am a mum but my son died and then feel guilty like I did something bad but my love for him takes over. I think more of us should stand up as often "my angry bird" wants to scream no I don't want your snotty whiny ugly big headed bratt I want my own!  Although my heart too goes out to the lady in the car crash and am so glad all was ok.  Alotsbi I look forward to holding your hand through your next pregnancy if you'll let me x

Maria you are so zen ... glad hubby didn't end up swimming with the algae but if he did he'd probably have been smug in his wet suit and perfect swim stroke x

Juliet. I agree I think we all sound amazing and wish we were all living close to each other, what an amazing group we would be and not just virtual.  I will wait to hear what your next thoughts/steps are... x

Miss Mayhem always your words give me strength it is no wonder your step daughter is resentful that her own mother is a pale comparison. Wrong of her to act the way she does and I agree be wary whilst you are having treatment, remember to put yourself first and don't justify the need to do this x

I would love to read that article Gailgegirl and am so pleased you are starting to feel mildly better. I always find work a distraction and that it passes the time allowing me to heal x

Hi kjade agree that awareness of IF is much needed. So much I could say about the ridiculous things said but you've all experienced them and probably worse!

My favourite thread too ... love reading the honesty and the humour ... such a safe, cathartic place to post xxx

And girls I hope it's not too much but know I carry this baby for all of us xx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Amazing news Nashipai  💗💗💗💗 
So happy for you xx how amazing it must feel to hear the heartbeat !!!! I whole heartedly  agree you should travel a million miles if it's for a doctor you are happy with and by the sounds of your guy he's  worth it . What a lovely thing for him to say.
I must admit it's a lovely feeling being excited for you and I wanted to say to you that I equally feel you carry this baby for us all. I'm wishing you a beautiful  pregnancy and please update us as it's such a safe way for us to be a part of what normally sends us running. I have a lovely warm fluffy glowing feeling when I think of your little baba xxx 
I was off today so it was lovely to catch up on here
Tlk later guys ☺☺☺


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Gailgegirl what a lovely thoughtful post – you hit the nail on the head about the fact that we all on here are in desperate need of belonging and to find an actual, real live person who is like us is like golddust!  I smiled my way through your post because I agree with so much of what you say.  I too have moments of actual happiness and when I’m not thinking about what I don’t have, I actually have a lovely husband a handsome but naughty German Shepherd, and through him we are making friends who come from all walks of life and know my situation as I know their ups and downs.  

Oh Nashipai….you made me cry!!  I’m so glad your news was good and can’t imagine how you must be feeling.  You are our hope, and I long for this to be successful and for you to have that little bundle that we all hope for.   

Miss Mayhem, I’m sorry I didn’t say anything earlier about your stepdaughter…. So many mixed emotions for you.  I’m so relieved she’s spoken up and still so angry for you.  I really hope you can make small steps and that one day she can be part of your family properly.

Maria, I’m so sorry to hear about your earlier years, how you must have struggled and now on top of that, everything you are going through now.  Sometimes it does take something horrific like that crash to make you think, and thank goodness all were ok.  You have your fur-babies to keep you in check as I have mine – I get so much pleasure out of him it’s almost unreal!!!  

Maybe tonight we should be positive and enjoy a glass of something, safe in the knowledge that if it goes to two or three, we have no-one but ourselves to look after and that is a good thing…..a little self-indulgence!  

Good night for now girls and thank you for keeping me going!!!    
xxx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Hi wonderful girls, apologies in advance for totally 'me' post but am struggling. Not sure if I've said as am all over the place but hubby is saying no to any more treatment. He's come around slightly in as far as he's said he'll do one more but in UK and not abroad, if I went again I still wanted to have the backup of a donor so was hoping to do another tandem. We're talking separation tonight, been so close to it so many times. Am hoping this is just another in a long list but am at a loss. He won't do counselling, won't have NHS IUI, won't let me go abroad with donor sperm. The only thing he agreed to yap a very lack lustre agreement to go with adoption but on the premise I stop everything else. He said he can't watch me destroy myself any more but doesn't understand that giving up is literally the thing that would finish me off. When I said it should be my decision whether to put myself through it again he had the audacity to say that it's not fair on his daughter as, three times in five years!, I've asked him not to bring her up on the weekends as they've coincided with early bleeds and negative tests. Never mind that he's cancelled many times when I've already had plans so haven't been available to look after her whilst he goes out, never once would he change his own plans. I was livid. But outside of that my feeling is one of sadness and fear. I fool want to be without him, don't want my marriage to end but can't give up on this. Insanely if we split in can't afford treatment anyway but being unable to continue with treatment because I can't afford it is preferable to not continuing because he's refusing. God I'm so tired of all this. I've asked him to go and stay with his mother for a few days to see if distance helps him re-evaluate what's important to him and just pray that it's us and a family. Not sure it will be though. And he was really angry too, told me to leave instead to which I said I don't want either of us to go anywhere, I'm clear about what I want - him and a family, it's him that's struggling. Any words of wisdom, any advice my wonderful, strong, insightful women?! 

Sending love to you all, so sorry being all me.xx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Oh Miss Mayhem…..you poor soul, how utterly hideous to have to be considering separation amongst everything else…….  I can’t possibly tell you what to do, but all I can say is that in my moments of horrible darkness, when DH and I have argued because he’s too old, we don’t have enough money, we’re happier as we are…..and all other excuses he’s thrown at me,  I have been most content when he’s not in the house.  I have time to reflect and I become ‘me’ again.  I have become the youthful, hopeful, optimistic person that I know is deep in there and I have wondered so hard if I should leave.  Being with someone who is against your innermost desires is the wrongest feeling I can possibly imagine, and whilst the only reason I want a baby is because it would be HIS baby, I would at least have hope if he weren’t there.  Saying that, I am neither brave enough nor rich enough to leave and I would miss him terribly, but for me, the longing comes with being with him .  So removing him would remove a lot of my huge need to be a mother.  I wouldn’t and couldn’t do it without him.  But life would take a different path and I know that when I’m on my own, I am very very capable.  I once vowed never to rely on anyone else until I had bought my own flat, kept myself and been totally self-sufficient.  I did it and I know I could do it again.
But…that doesn’t mean it’s right to leave him.  All I’m saying is that I understand your emotions and I have been right there with you.  Gailgegirl, you write so well in your answer and you make me stop and think when I write!  I tend to be ever so emotional and think rationally afterwards.  I too wouldn’t want to force my DH to do anything, but this is one thing where I have stood firm.  I have made the decision and waited for him to come round.  A drip, drip, drip of little words, ideas and a lot of sadness and eventually he sees my way is right.  But I am caught up as we all our in huge emotion, whereas men are much more practical.  I want a baby more than anything.  But I want my husband’s baby.  My relationship is why I’m at this stage and I don’t think I’d give him up to have that bundle.  I can see totally that your DH cannot bear your pain and for them, just stopping this ‘madness’ is the only right thing to do.  If only we could be so rational.
Adoption scares me – not just the being given a child of whatever age they deem to be right, but the lengthy, intrusive and complicated process that you have to go through in order to even be considered.  I vaguely know a couple who split up at the end of the process when finally the agency said no.  2 years they went through utter hell of being scrutinised and then they were turned down.  For some it’s a miracle, but you hear so many stories that are awful.  
I can’t believe your DH would bring up the effect on your step-daughter and once again I’m angry for you.  She is a part of your family but she is not your daughter.  His complicated relationship with her needs to be separate until the two of you can agree on the next course of action.  Too much has gone on with her for her to be a consideration in whether you try again, in whatever form, to have what you long for.
I feel that you’ve talked so many times about what to do and you must be so tired.  I know my arguments always start and end the same and it’s so draining.  
As ever, I can’t tell you which way to go.  I just know that I have felt the same, but my conclusion is that I can be happy without my desperate need for a baby.  I was happy before I married DH and I will be happy again.  I will always be deeply sad for my loss, but if I lost him as well then I would have lost too much.  
Time apart is the best thing.  Talking on neutral territory is also good.  Try and go out to discuss your future, don’t do it at home where one of you can go to bed or storm off.  And even in the midst of your anger, think about whether he may have a point in anything he says – just so he doesn’t feel you are against everything he says.  That is easier said than done, but is something I try to keep in mind in any argument.  Is there anything I can agree with despite how much I want to hit him……
Sending you so many


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Oh my goodness I am so sorry for your situation and I am so sorry I cannot offer any solutions for you. 

Going from what you have written, i think bringing his daughter into it was a low blow but the fact he is saying no to more treatment because he 'can't see you destroy yourself anymore' does sound like he loves you very much and you must not forget that.

Take care


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey girls....it's Sunday night and I'm alone having just got back from visiting my parents.... DH and dog are out training.  I had a tiny bit of news tonight and I'm sitting here crying so needed you all!!!  We had our last attempt with a donor this week.  We had one sample of DH's sperm left and the clinic agreed to let us not be involved until and if they got any frosties.  Well, we have one.  One single perfect frostie.  I know it's just a frostie.  I know it may not survive thawing.  And I know I've never carried any baby ever so may not be able to.  But right now, I have the tiniest of beings sitting in a freezer that just might be mine.  I can't bear the feeling of hope.    

xxx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Juliet big   That's fantastic news. I know exactly how you feel, especially the worry about thawing.
So you and me should be going with a FET soon. When do you think you are going to go for it?


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Thank you girls.... two glasses of fizz and my DH and dog home so I'm feeling much better!!  It was all too much for me earlier!  Alotbsl, it'll be middle of September ish - we're on holiday the first two weeks so I don't think we'd be able to fit it in until then.  It's such a big ask of one tiny frostie to live through thawing and 9 months, but at least I have a little hope for the next few weeks!!    
xxx


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## nashipai (Dec 18, 2014)

Oh Miss Mayhem it has taken me a while to reply to think of what to say and I think the girls have said such wonderfully helpful things ... what I can say is about my experience of going it alone ... it was my choice to leave the relationship to do this on my own but our relationship was dead in the water if I could try to describe it, the image that comes up is Bruce Willis and his wife in the 6th sense where they seem to be living different lives with only superficial communication .. no passion even for an argument just a ginormous sense of loss  ... we still loved each other but no longer had the motivation to make that love a relationship ...  only you will know if the end of the line has come .... from the outside (me) it doesn't sound like you have but I do have a tendency to flog dead horses rather than make a clean break ... I also had that moment that gailgegirl describes where I knew my love for my partner was no longer just for him but all wrapped up in our dead baby and what we could have been and I could not tease those loves apart  it was all I saw when I looked at him and he held me in his arms .... I hope by now you have sat down together and found a way to discuss what you each want and to begin to find common ground and perhaps resolution .... I can't help thinking your DH may be hiding behind his stepdaughter too when using her as a reason to stop when really it is that he hates to see you suffer as it makes him suffer too xxx hope to hear from you soon xxxxx even if it's a post of a big scream!!  

Oh Juliet P ... I won't say any of that stuff about "the one" ... what I will say is that perfect little embryo is yours already and it is waiting for you ... quietly and silently missing you ... with all the edge of the seat waiting to see if your embryos stay good you must feel sick with worry and yes tortured by hope ... I am praying for you that it will work and visualising a huge smile and laughing Juliet with a huge belly!  and not from wine and chocolates xxxxxx  and that little frostie has already lived through the hardest 5 days of it's tiny life and I think it can go the distance xxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys ☺☺☺
Ahhhhh firstly congrats Juliet!!! A frostie is a huge success and somewhere in a freezer is a tiny  itsy bitsy baby 💖💖💖💖 I am sooooo happy for you and so very excited..... focus on all the positives  and visualise little ms or Mr frosty going exactly to plan. I'm sending you so much love and hope and joy xxxx iv a big stupid grin on my face for you and a lovely exhale of happy thoughts of what the future holds for you. Like all the ladies on here I think you would make an awesome  mommy and iv such a good feeling about this xxxx
MissM your very much not alone. This pulls every relationship apart and I really identify with  your situation. Iv been to the point your at many a time during this and no doubt will be again in the future. The hurt the pain  the anger.....it all makes you scream inside and our dhs seem to very much get on with it and really have other things that are major focuses in their lives. Kind of like this baby thing is a side project. Iv considered the going it alone road but fiancially I too am intertwined  with kieran. To go it alone would be very difficult  for me whereas  with kieran I'm pretty comfortable. Don't get me wrong I work full time but my wages alone prob wouldn't  keep me in the lifestyle I'm used to and infertility treatments would not even be realistic
I want to sit in pj's with you and have copius  amounts of wine and let you cry it all out. The daughter in law was a very low blow and not intentional I know but deeply cutting. Of all things your pain at all you've  suffered but it's suddenly about a bratty teenager not calling on a certain day.....that's not going to have her scarred for life now is it. I find our pain is raw and when another persons minor inconvenience takes precedence is bitterly infuriating.
For now I say take time but I feel if your like me....time will be spent worrying at the speed of light and stressing yourself out even more 😢
I think you and dh are not done but just need a time out. You ll have to search deep to know if going it alone is for you xxxx I'm always here for you and your not alone in this. Try get out walking or do something to give your brain some space to think. Keep us posted xx
Nashipai I related to the 6th sense comment, before all of this I watched that movie with such disbelief that a couple could live like that. I was so blissfully happy it seemed alien and I was frustrated by how unrealistic I felt it was at the time. Roll  on infertility and I'd now get an Oscar nomination for that role!!!! At low points thats where I was....stuck in that movie.
On a personal note all is good...no treatment plans yet...me and kieran are getting on mostly  and enjoying life. I bought a stupidly expensive handbag and I kind of console myself with it when I see babies 😢😢 stupid I know but lol it works the odd time 😅😅
I spent today cutting down huge trees in my garden and it was hard work but good for the mind ☺☺
On a much much scarier note on Thursday I was walking my dogs  before work when a German shepard broke free from his owner and ran at me.......I know him to see and he is really really aggressive and hates all dogs. He saw my 2 from a good distance away and ran at me....I put my 2 behind me and he hit me full on knocking me onto the road, my shoes flew off from the impact but I was able to grab his collar. Only because I'm a dog person I knew what to do. I had to control the attacking  dog to save my 2. I pulled him up onto his hind legs and the whole time he was snapping and going beserk to kill my 2. His owner was frozen on the spot and her shoulder had been dislocated  from  the force of him pulling her. She is a tiny wisp of a woman  and no way near strong enough to walk a gsd. I knew I had to get him under control so I dragged him to an open porch and threw him inside using my body weight. It was so scary and so awful but amazingly my 2 were unharmed. I however am limping since and lost a few nails 😢😢😢 the owners husband called to me and agreed my 2 would of been  torn apart if I hadn't pulled him up and away from them. He offered to have him pts and to cover my doctors visit etc but I declined. I didn't care once my babies were ok. At that moment whether my babies had 4 legs r 2 legs it didn't matter I was not letting anyone hurt them. The owner told me the dog was 27 kg and he had no idea how I did it. I told him their my babies and if he had been 200kg he still wasn't touching them.  I must admit though I'm quite  shook up from it.
Okey dokey guys off to bed xx
Sweet dreams everyone  💖


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Wow empty dreams you sound like you had a super woman moment, hey what am I saying, we are ALL super women all of the time   no, really that was very brave of you and I hope you are okay.


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Goodness, Maria, I hope you are ok!!  How very scary for you, but well saved.  I think I would do anything to save mine too - you just go into automatic mode don't you.  I hope those nails grow back..... 

xxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Thanks guys ☺☺☺☺
Much better today thankfully. My nails will grow back in no time anyway. Gaeilgegirl I'm sorry to hear about your king Charles that's awfully  sad you lost him. They are beautiful  dogs and always smiling. Just gentle souls xxx. I adore my two and they fill my days with smiles. Hope everyone is good and tlk soon guys ☺☺


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Sorry just need a poor me rant.

Why am I set to experience every part of this ****ty journey apart from the good bits. Just been for a scan in preparation for a FET and it shows I have retained products - (lovely way to describe it!), they have advised as I have not passed this in the last 11 weeks so I should contact my GP to arrange a d & c. 

Obviously I want everything as good as it can be for my next cycle but I just want, for ONCE, to have a scan or check up and for everything to just be okay. 

Hope everyone is okay today.


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Oh no Alotbsl...that sounds awful - I would have thought the clinic could do that for you??  It's just more waiting for you...I'm so sorry.  And what a horrible way to describe it...


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey girls I thought I'd check in and all is quiet.  Alotbsl, how are you?  I hope things are feeling a bit better?  Miss Mayhem...all very quiet from you, I hope you're ok.  No news from me, just wanted to make sure you were all hanging in there.  
xxx


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Hi everyone, how are you all?

Hi Juliet, yes I was wondering how you are all getting on?
I'm still waiting for my appointment date for my D & C, my clinic could have done it - for a price, so I'm waiting to have it done on NHS, so got that to look forward to  . Need to be put out under General anasetic apparently.

Have you just been watching breakfast telly?  They had an article on how lonely it can be having children, OMG it made me so mad, perhaps  ' poor parents' need to appreciate the situation they are in, if they want to experience REAL isolation they should try not being able to have children.

Have a great day ahead, chat soon.


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Heya girls, yes I'm still around, been fixated on tests, husbands and getting bloody answers from my clinic, am kind of ok and yet not really all rolled into one!         

Bloody hell Maria! I hope you're ok! I just can't believe it. People should so not have dogs if they can't control them, that said though my parents have rehomed a staffie who is terribly aggressive towards other dogs but a delight at home. Naturally they had no idea before having her that she was like this, and they are strong enough to control her though. Well done you on protecting your babies.  I saw your post but it was my birthday weekend so was busy pretending I had something to 'celebrate', like you enjoy the milestone of your sixth 'official' (never mind all the unofficial ones!) year still not being a mother. People just don't get that it's not really something you want to jump up and down about. The only person I was honest with was my poor mother who looked totally crestfallen when I told her so I zipped it and kept it to myself from then on.

Alotbsl am so sorry your clinic were so dreadfully insensitive. I feel your pain and frustration, we all do, why can't you not have a bloody straightforward scan in the midst of all the indignity we have to go through?!  And why the hell did they phrase it like that?! A bit of respect and compassion wouldn't go amiss.   The procedure is going to be awful for you to go through lovely but I hope they get their act together and get it done sooner for you so you can begin to properly move on with what you need to do.

I'm so glad I didn't see your programme on telly I may not have a telly left if I had   I read an article yesterday on some fertility site though about a celeb who's going to freeze her eggs as she hasn't met the right guy and is worried time is running out, quite sensible I thought and with hindsight is something I definitely would've done a good few years ago. The response of the article? To tell her not to worry and over react because she's 'only 35'! Absolute idiots, the epitome of the ignorance we have to deal with on an almost daily basis. Makes me bloody mad. 

So how is everyone else doing? xxx Haven't forgotten you, think of you all often just getting distracted.xx


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## peppa pig (Jun 10, 2011)

Hi

I have this page bookmarked and find your thread of much comfort to me, it makes me feel like I am not alone, its probable the only thread that reflects my own feelings. So I thank you all.  I am very much a silent reader, as I am just so unsure about everything.

I feel that my journey if to continue will be one on my own.  My DP has two children and is happy with his lot lets say, he doesn't really want to continue with treatment and it causes us problems as I cant see me sitting in the background for another 10yrs watching him have grandchildren and all the other things that will happen as his children grow up.  It lovely don't get me wrong but if I am to have no children then I would rather that choice was not taken away until I am ready.

I am posting to ask if any one can point me in the direction of costs for DD or embryo adoption or OE with DS I seem to be wondering around the board and web sites but cant see costs, I am only looking for examples to give me a ball park figures.  I am looking for less expensive so  from what I can see Spain is expensive, then there's Greece and Cyprus but I see others mention Poland.

If any of you ladies can help I would much appreciate it.

Thank you


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## Handstitchedmum (Mar 24, 2013)

Hello Peppa, you may have a better chance asking about costs in the Donor boards or the relevant clinic boards. Good luck with whatever you decide! Xx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Heya peppapig and welcome to our little thread. We're a little quiet lately but we go like that from time to time, we'll be back I'm sure, but in the meantime am glad that our thread has brought you some comfort. If it's any consolation I totally understand thatdfeeling of being partner being ready to move on before us, there's a few of us having or had similar issues. With regards to clinic prices I would imagine some will have price lists or just email them and ask for costs of treatments you're considering. I know there's a good clinic in Prague that do embryo donation, there will be loads that do own eggs and sperm donor even here in the UK too, I'm currently looking to get info from Serum in Athens too. I think handstitchedmum is right about the other boards being a good place to ask too, the majority of the boards here are full of really helpful informative people. There's also a thread in coping with infertility on the specific issues of being a step parent with infertility issues too, it's very quiet lately too though (and I don't know how to post the link sorry!) but please know you're certainly not alone, not that necessarily helps but it's good to know you're not some pariah of society, so feel free to message me whenever you want.  

Hope the rest of my pals here are ok. Love and   to you all xx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey Peppa, welcome to our thread, I’m sorry you’ve had to come out of your silent status as things are getting on top of you.  As Miss Mayhem says, we have all been through such horrible downs that whilst we don’t want to welcome you at such a bad time, you are amongst warm friends so you can feel free with anything you need to say.  It is bad enough going through infertility but to have the decision taken out of your hands is a horrible place to be.  I have struggled with every cycle to persuade my DH and feel it is uphill all the way – he has two grown up boys and would happily put all the trying behind us.  There is no answer, but I think deep within us we know how we want our future to be and if nature is against us, we still are strong enough to pull ourselves up and make our own decisions when the push comes to shove.  I’m afraid I don’t know about any foreign clinics, it is so expensive here but we have always used the same clinic – this time round it was donor eggs and own sperm and it’s ended up about £8,000….I don’t know how they can justify such enormous costs, but we are trapped by the system.  I hope one of the other threads is helpful to you, do keep in touch, we are always here with an ear… 

Miss Mayhem, how are you?  How’s that husband of yours?  I hope things are a little more settled.  We have kept our little frostie on hold until the end of December so I can dream until then and enjoy our holiday next week.  This week I am on half days all week as my dog walker is away – it’s just lovely only working for 4 hours and coming home to my pup!!  Well, he’s 14 months old and 33kg of heaving German Shepherd, but he’ll always be my pup!!!

I hope all you girls are ok and life is just milling along hence the silence.  

Thinking of you all..
xxxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys ☺☺☺
Welcome Peppa, glad you found us xx we are a bit quite at the moment but as miss Mayhem said we go like that from time to time. Ohhhh Juliet I hope uv a fab holiday!!! Really happy your little frostie is set to go for December!!!  Take this time to relax and focus positive energy towards the future. Id a few days off too and it's great to get out for a few extra walks with the dogs. I decided to home cook for them today so I ended up making some mess but they loved it and it's all healthy and natural. I suppose they are like kids to us and I kind of am grateful in a very weird way that I don't have to prioritise children above them. Strange I know but sometimes we have to look at what we have as opposed to what we don't. 
I think treatment is not on the cards for me now and it's strangely comforting. Who knows what the future holds but I'm still not willing to start all over. Kieran seems to be the same. I'm 34 but maybe I'm fooling myself with my laid back attitude but for now it's working. I started a new course in work which is fairly boring but a good distraction and my wages should go up a bit so that's a focus. What I'd give for us all to meet for afternoon tea or anything really just to see and speak to people who get it.....somedays  it's hard being around so many that just don't get it at all 😧😧
Congrats on your wedding anniversary Gaeilgegirl ☺☺ I know it was probably a mixture of bittersweet like lots of these occasions are. But I'm happy you went and enjoyed yourself. 
Tlk soon guys xxxx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

What an emotional few posts girls   

Juliet I hope you had a lovely break and are taking time to be kind to you, relaxing and enjoying nice things in preparation for December. We will collectively have everything crossed for you.   Exciting and scary times all rolled into one I guess, how are you feeling about it all now lovely? I know it's been an emotional few months to reach this decision. xxx 
As you asked, my husband is still alive, just.  We're currently existing in a surreal, happy stalemate environment where he ignores the mere mention of treatment and I pretend I've not noticed that he ignored it. It's not a fantastic place to be but it's better than it has been for a while and is nice not to be at each others throats.

Maria I hope your break does you good.  Yet another cliché but this is a rollercoaster of the worst kind, I still think you're young enough to take some time out to enjoy 'life' again, that thing we all had before we became consumed in our new world. You will know with a bit of time if stepping away is for you or not. If all is well and good that's great for you but, if not, you'll still be young enough to pick the reins back up but will have the benefit of your wisdom and experiences and hopefully will be energised and ready to tackle eeverything with renewed strength.

And Gailegirl. Well I don't know what to say. I want to say 'don't go' but I can imagine the strength and courage it's taken for you to reach such a monumental decision and know that you have to look after yourself. It would be lovely to hear from you if you feel you can but we totally understand if you don't feel in a place where you're able to. We all know how painful the tiniest reminder of a time and place can be so keeping in touch with us when we're still trying just might be too much for you, for a while at least.. Your recent trip to Paris touched my heart to think of you starting out, a time when we're young and naive and fertility is an f word we've never had to consider. My heart breaks for you, but I hear the hope in your voice too and can almost taste the freedom that truly stepping outside our collective world promises. I think you are so brave. And I only hope that I can face similar decisions with your dignity and resolve should I need to. My head says I'm already there with you but my heart still holds me back at the minute. That thought that you've given it everything you can has given you tremendous resolve and it's so important we all have that. I hope that in time the counselling helps you truly grieve for your beautiful babies and helps you process all the trauma you've been through, you've coped with so much. As I said earlier we'll understand if being 'around' us is too painful at the minute but please know that we'll always be here for you should you need us. Please don't struggle alone. And I don't mean to be dismissive at all by making suggestions, please don't think that, but one book I started to read was Rocking the Life Unexpected by Jody Day, you may have heard of it. I've not finished it yet so can't fully recommend but it's about finding a Plan B and helped me enormously with identifying and expressing my anger and helped with the beginnings  of grieving. I feel so emotional I really don't know what else to say other than we're going to miss you massively but you must do what is right for you now. Massive group hug and sending so much love your way. Please take good care of yourself.   xxx

Love to you all girls and here's to our other shared dream of cavorting through Ireland!   My parents are in North Cork now, wish I'd hidden in the boot! Hope everyone's looking after themselves.  xxxxxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hello girls I’m back from a much needed week away!

Gailgegirl, I am so deeply sorry for your hard decision and admire your strength so much.  You are an extremely brave girl, not only to decide it, but to tell us all – talking and saying it out loud is sometimes the hardest bit of any decision.  It is something that maybe we will all get to in the end but we will miss you very much and do hope that you find the strength to pop on when you can.  There is always hope for a happy future, even if the things we get to love the most are four-legged and furry!  I hope you start to feel more at ease with your decision every day and things start to look brighter.  There are so many times when I look at families and see their unhappiness and wonder if it really is all I’ve imagined and whether in fact it wouldn’t bring the rainbow of joy that I have allowed myself to think it’ll be.  I am sending you massive hugs and hope you won’t be gone too long.   

As for me, I had a horrible week before my holiday.  I work in a very strange environment and have been a temp for 3 years until my contract was made permanent in April.  It is not a job I like, nor one I have grown up to do.  My background is media, but now in Kent, I work in an insurance company on a PPI contract – basically a well-known bank pay us to trawl through their customers’ accounts and pay back the money they mis-sold.  We have been treated as ‘temps’ from the word go, and as children most of the time.  I was finally awarded a team manager’s position two months ago, albeit temporarily until November and I set to the task of making the team feel valued and important, and those whose mentality was like a child, to try to steer them into the adult world of real work.  The day before my holiday my horrible horrible boss called me in to say that the bank no longer wanted to pay for my position any more, so I was going to go back to the position I was in before.  No discussion, no apologies, and no concession to the enormous amount of money the bank pay for me to be there – all of us are charged out at over double our salaries.  I asked if there might be some leeway – after all, having a demotion is a hard pill to swallow and paying me from the company profits would merely reduce those profits by a tiny amount, but keep my salary at the increased amount and show me how valued I was to the company.  The answer was no.  And so I have written my notice letter and I shall be going in tomorrow with my head held high, satisfied that I have tried my hardest, for my own sake and for my colleagues to make this a better place and been treated so badly that I have to go.  
I hope to re-charge my batteries and find a company that will actually value my morals and my values as well as the hard work I am willing to put in to my position.  I do feel I’ve wasted 3 ½ years of my life but there has to be more out there than this.

Just when I think life might be calm….

Miss Mayhem, hello lovely and I’m glad things are calm with you – even if you are skirting around painful issues, sometimes to pretend life is ok can steer it into being ok and getting your normality back.  Long may the truce last.

Maria, I’m so glad you are enjoying your dogs and had a good time away from work.  It sounds like you have plenty to focus on and maybe live a little without all the trials and anguish of IVF.

And hello to anyone else out there reading – Alotbsl, Peppa, I hope your lives are trundling on and things are going ok. 

That’s all from me for now…..keep all your fingers crossed that I don’t get marched off the premises tomorrow!!!!


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Oh Juliet, good luck for tomorrow lovely! I want to say that I hope your resignation makes them think twice but I fear that a place that can treat people so poorly will remain as pigheaded as ever. If it's any consolation I really admire your courage and integrity in sticking to your principles. Leaving a job is scary but you will find something, and there won't be much else about that will be worse than this place at least. I had an amazing boss once who told me that I needed to be prepared to stand alone because of my morals and principles, awful that there are still so many places where this is the case but to leave somewhere knowing you've done your absolute best, you can ask no more of yourself. I'm sorry that it's come to this though and hopefully you'll find somewhere where you'll be appreciated very soon

Truce has ended here I'm afraid. At crisis point, again, over his refusal to look after our godchildren this time. Seems he doesn't like me being taken for granted. I don't think having them overnight for the second time in six years constitutes that. Never mind that he and his ex have been perfectly happy for me to look after their daughter pretty much every weekend for the past six years!II'm worried this has nothing to do with the kids, who are hard work granted, I think it's more about his attitude to children in general. He's denying that but is now in the spare room and talking of leaving again! When will this stop I wonder?! Xx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Oh Miss Mayhem no……how exhausting for you.  This is the thing isn’t it, when an argument just doesn’t stack up there has to be something deeper.  A weekend of hard work with your godchildren shouldn’t be a deal breaker and for that to cause such upset that he is thinking of leaving just doesn’t sound right.  Does it seem like there are things he’s not saying to you and that this is his way of expressing his anger, just about the wrong thing?  I thought that was our speciality – I know I can flare up at something small when really it’s something he did 3 weeks ago that I’m mad at him for.  I’m so sorry for the end of your truce…..


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## Alotbsl (May 20, 2013)

Hi ladies, I have been away from the forum for a while, just needed some time away, I have been catching up on the last few posts, so much going on with everyone. 
Not had my D&C yet booked in for beginning of Oct just the usual waiting game.


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey Alotbsl, good to have you back.....awful to have to wait but hopefully it'll be over with soon and you can move forward.  Hang on in there... xxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi guys ☺☺
So much stuff going on and I'm sorry I wasn't on more. Gaeilgegirl I admire your decision and I feel very much on your wavelength. When we stack up the hurt and the pain infertility  has caused us it's no wonder we walk away. You have given so much of you that you must just be worn out. If you ever want to meet I'm in Cork and don't worry not for anything baby related just as 2 ppl who carry a lot in their hearts but are looking forward. Life is so short and we get one chance so I'm  (somewhat) trying to focus on the good ! If you ever need to chat I'm here xx.
Juliet all I can say is wow !!!! You are so inspiring and so brave. Without even knowing you outside of here your character beams through as such a truely wonderful person and your boss knows this so it's easier to keep you down and hidden away, to utilise your skills without you getting noticed as your potential scares her to death I bet !!! You would do her job a million times better and she knows it. I agree with the comment about her probable refusal to acknowledge it as that's how stupid ppl react. Maybe this is one door closing to allow another to open. Your heart was never in that job and perhaps you ll find something new xxxx. It's a stressful time so we are here for you but hold your head high as you are just wonderful.
Miss Mayhem I feel your pain. Men are morons at times  and I understand your husband is perhaps deflecting his own emotions indirectly. Men once they have ticked a certain box in their lives can never truely expierance the consuming nature of infertility  on us. Perhaps he feels iv done the whole baby/ child thing and yes it would be great if it had happened again but what's more important is my life now and this is taking from it. He probably wants you to just switch it off and revert to before infertility ......men just don't get it at all 😠😠😠. Yes they hurt but not like us...it's not even their fault just simple genetics and different wiring !!! Your not alone and your so strong as you keep battling through this. The journey is tough enough without men making us worse 😅😅
No news with me really, I started a new course in work and I'm jogging a few times a week and I had a few work nights out. On a funny note my work colleague got drunk and told me he fancies me 😅😅😅 it was a lovely distraction to hear him telling me all the things he liked about me (albeit after 15 pints!!) But it made a pleasant change from hating on myself and a little giggle too 😅😅😅
Off to study and walk the fur brats as I'm off today. Big huge hugs to all and you all are truely amazing girls......and again I wish we were closer as I'd adore us all to meet up xxxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey Maria!!  There's nothing nicer than a little bit of admiration from someone you don't exepct it from - go girl!!!!!  I hope you feel beautiful and wonderful!!

I am on day 4 of freedom.  Yesterday was just amazing.  I woke up to sunshine, walked my excitable dog, met up with two of my new dog walking friends for coffee, came back, chatted to my neighbour, and then was a back out for the dog club at 5pm!!  In this last year I have made some really nice new friends through our regular 5pm chats and it has made my life a million times better!  My hideous, smelly, flea-ridden mutt has been invaluable to me!!!

Today it is peeing down with rain so I'm going to wait until it clears before I go out.  Spring cleaning shall start today and I may even get some time to sit down and make some jewellery - my favourite pastime of all!

Wishing you all a better day,  
xxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

I'm so on that wavelength Juliet....iv made so many friends through my dogs and they really are great ppl. It's nice to enjoy our doggies with fellow minded ppl that don't look at them as just dogs. I love mornings like that when your grateful for sunshine and all that nature has to offer ☺
Wow you have a very creative hobby!! What kind do you make ?? I'd love to be creative !! I played with the idea of making vintage style dog beds from old suitcases but never really got started 😅😅😅it's great for the mind though ☺☺
Off to meet few friends for lunch and cocktails so should be a nice day. Wishing you all a great weekend xxx
Tlk soon,
Maria xx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Hi Maria, I’ve just written a reply and it disappeared!!!
I make solid silver rings, earrings and pendants – I started on a beading course about 6 years ago and then took more courses for fun!  I love diamonds and rings and everything sparkly, so now if I see something I have to have, I make it myself!  
You should definitely make one of your dog beds – its sounds a fantastic idea.  Once you’ve made one and people have seen it and loved it, you’ll be hooked.  I’m always on the look out for a big enough bed for my German Shepherd, he’s too big for everything!
I hope you had a lovely weekend, friends and cocktails sounds just perfect.  I hope everyone else is ok too – it’s been very quiet on here of late.
Maria, I’ll PM you my ** page so you can see what I do for fun!
xxxx


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## empty dreams (Jun 20, 2014)

Wow I had a little look there and your jewellery is so pretty !!! And so professional  !! I love the angel earrings and the rings 😍😍😍 it's so cool that you can create something like that.....lol ul inspire me to make one of those dog beds.......I can only imagine how hard and how expensive a gsd bed is !!!!! And he's still probably growing 🙈🙈🙈🙈.
It would prob be easier to buy him a human bed !!
Your right it's very quite here lately I think it's just one of those things but even days that we are all not on we are always still on each others side xx ☺


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Ah, hello!!  I wondered who the Maria was who had 'liked' my page and now I know it's you!!! I'm so dim sometimes, I don't put two and two together!!!  What a lovely pic of you on your page and now I know what your fur babies look like!  A lot of my stuff is just trial and error, particularly with the silver, but I'm getting better!  One day I'll be jeweller to the stars.....lol!!! xxx


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## JulietP (Dec 6, 2012)

Well, I thought I'd post on here in case any of you girls are looking.  I wish you all a Happy Christmas and a happier new year.  Let's hope something positive comes to us all in 2016.  Thank you for being there,


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