# Implantation failure advice please



## Flossy34 (Aug 11, 2013)

Hi

I'm hoping somebody might be able to offer me some advice.
I have had two failed ivf cycles this year with early implantation failure both times which caused me to bleed 8 and 9 days post three day transfer.
I am looking at getting immune testing carried out at either care nottigham with an ivf cycle there too or immune testing with mr gorgy in London and an ivf cycle at my local hospital.
Have any of you had similar issues to me?
I have endo and hypothyroidism.
I really need advice from someone who has similar issues as I'm so confused!

f x


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## Hbkmorris (Apr 7, 2010)

Hello Flossy34,

I'm sorry to hear you have had two failed IVF cycles and you'd be right to check your immunes system now.

Implantation failure is classed to be the same as mc and therefore they test very similar things. I personally went to Professor Quenby at CRM in Coventry for my uterine NK cell biopsy and she proved that it was elevated and with this in mind I'd need to have prednisolone, clexane and intralipids with any further cycles. You can find some details online about her but here's one for now http://www.uhcw.nhs.uk/our-services/a-z-of-services/consultants?cID=341

My clinic now actually did all the balance of the tests and all of which came back normal but we continued to mix the above along with gestone into the mix as I always bled prior to OTD.

My clinic say:- The Midland Fertility Miscarriage and Implantation Failure Service (MIFS) is a three-step dedicated service for women who have experienced recurrent miscarriages or embryo implantation failure. Recent advances in understanding the causes for recurrent miscarriages enable Midland Fertility to offer advanced treatment options and support for patients to improve the outcome of pregnancies.

Check out their full information.. http://www.midlandfertility.com/investigations-and-treatments/investigations/recurrent-miscarriage-tests/

Hope this helps you. It sounds to me you'd also benefit with use of Gestone if you bleed prior to OTD. All the very best xx

/links


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## Flossy34 (Aug 11, 2013)

Hi
Thank you so much for such a detailed reply. 
I should have added that I was given gestone and steroids on my last cycle and bled even earlier. 
I was told prof quenby doesn't believe in intralipids which is why I steered clear. She is local to me though so would be handy to see her.
I'm very confused with the whole thing.
Midland fertilty does seem good and I would consider alongside an immune specialist.
Xxx


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## Hbkmorris (Apr 7, 2010)

Hi Flossy, 

My goodness how did you bleed with 100mg Gestone.. that's quite some progesterone.. I might add I did also insert a cyclogest a day.. Normally morning as I did gestone of a night. 

Well that's not how she treated or advised me and I saw her and Prof Brosen and they both advised the same. 

If I was in your shoes I'd go to MFS they are just amazing and I wish I'd gone to them at the start of my IVF journey. But I decided to stay with Birmingham Women's where I didn't have a good experience .. Thankfully BMI Priory put that right along with many other things in my handbag and I'm raring to go! 

MFS have been my total breath of fresh air and I'd truly consider the option of going to see them before you do anything. They offer all the tests to include uterine NK cell biopsy and full immunes support and because they research implantation and mc they know what they are doing and will go above and beyond to help you. 

They have free open evenings where you can chat to someone for 10 mins so that's defo worth thinking about. They've also moved to Tamworth in a fabulous new build clinic.. It's so much nicer and they have all the new technology. I'm also going with embryoscope this time round. I have a more tailored protocol for me and they will scan & blood test me every 48hours.. Honestly they are good and I do say that despite having a failed cycle with them in Jan 2013.. but I'm convinced that was due to my left hydro tube.

All the best in what ever you decide to do or go to xx


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## Vanilla Spice (Dec 27, 2007)

Dr Gorgy will look after you no matter where you have your treatment and Care will only do all the immunes if you have treatment with them.  We went to Care Nottingham.  Wish we had sooner.  Good on you for wanting investigations sooner rather than later.  VS xx


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## Flossy34 (Aug 11, 2013)

Hi both

Thanks for your advice.
I do want to make sure I choose the right clinic and somewhere that specialises in implantation issues.
My embryos are all good and I have had 100% and 90% fertilisation rates.
I do have severe endo and a bad thyroid problem though and after reading Alan beers book feel sure there is an immune problem of some sort. 
You're right that it is odd that I bleed so early and that is what the clinic has said too. Apparently it is quite rare to bleed quite so early.
I just hope I find somewhere that can help me. 
I know we are relatively early to be going down the testing route but with my history and the fact the bleeding does seem to be rare, I just want to take advice.
The failed cycles are totally heart breaking aren't they.
Nothing worse in fact.

Vs your story is inspiring and hbk I will be thinking of you. You deserve your baby now and I'm so pleased you have found a clinic you trust xx


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## ustoget (Mar 6, 2014)

Flossy34
Sorry that you've had 2 unsuccessful try's :-(
My first in April was successful but had mmc at 8.5 weeks and then 2 bfn (second one with 2 emybies) the first ones we used the embryo glue and I keep having a gut feeling that maybe that caused the miss miscarriage.. That basically it was viable to start with but the glue made it stick to long.. Any thoughts. When I mentioned that to the doctor at our valuation he said 'well thats a good question' apparently they have done tests but nothing proves it. Anyway that was enough to decide to to use it again.. I thought if rather get bfn than go through that again. Now all I want is to see 2 lines again :-(
Sorry if I'm being stupid but does the fact that my 3 embryos that didn't implant mean I have bad implantation?? My first 2 were 5days blastocysts and the rest are 6 day all 4bb and 4aa so I don't think I have issues with the quality (although Dh had poor morphology so we had ICSI) my lining has always been good and I'm on completely natural cycles with no progesterone.
I also bleed before its but that's coz my period is due a couple of days before as I get my surge day 12 and have a 26 day cycle.. Is that bad?

Hkbmorris- Midland fertility clinic sound great but I'm in London.. Everyone talks about argc but I still have 1 frosty and 2 free fresh cycles to go.

Vanilla Spice- can u suggest what tests I would need with dr gorgy and cost.. I looked online and have no idea which one do would need!

Any advice would be grateful


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## njr_26 (Aug 27, 2011)

Flossy and Ustoget, here is a good interview with Dr Gorgy about implantation failure and m/c. He explains really well all the issues that play a part in both issues. Well worth watching although it is quite long at 41 mins.
http://www.privatepregnancy.co.uk/ask-an-expert/webinar-2014-10-05-fertility-consultant-london/

Dr Gorgy sorted my immune issues and I had my treatment at Prague Fertility Centre.

/links


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## jennyes2011 (Jun 9, 2011)

Hello,

I have similar issues with bleeding early - also 8 or 9 days past 3dt. I also have underactive thyroid We have had 6 cycles in all, 11 embryos transferred - and we have been lucky as the 7th or 8th one took and we now have a beautiful 16 month daughter. We have had 2 BFNs since then. 
I was in your position considering immune testing - we switched clinics and got our BFP. Is your underactive thyroid under control? I was told to keep my TSH between 1-2.
We are now changing clinics again as we want to try gestone, blastocyst transfer, assisted hatching & embryoglue! 

Jenny x


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