# Feel like my life is going no where....sorry this is a 'poor me' post.



## Liliaicha (Feb 22, 2004)

Hi there

I'm not really sure how to approach this, so I'm just going to go straight into it!

I'm not married (have a boyfriend of 6 years), I live in my boyfriend's house (I sold mine to pay for tx), we have no children (all 5 tx failed).

I just feel like our lives and relationship are just not moving on. I've never been that bothered about getting married, and thought that us having children would be our next step in our relationship, but seems like it is not to be. Because we have no kids we don't need to buy a bigger house together so I live in 'his' house, whereas I would like 'our' house.

It feels a bit childish that at nearly 40 I have a 'boyfriend', I know I can use the word 'partner' but if feels so cold. If I suggested to him that we get married he would be horrified, I know he does not want to and has made many comments to that effect, but so have I. It seems to be the only way our relationship can now move on.

My brother (younger) got married a couple of weeks ago, so these feelings are getting stronger. He and his new wife will be moving into there new house when they get back from honeymoon and I would imagine that she will be pregnant before she sets foot on the return flight - she has been taking folic acid etc etc so I know that is the plan.

I'm so happy for them both, but I'm also seething with jealousy and I hate myself for it. He has everything I want and should have by now! This is made worse by the fact that my last failed tx was in May, and I had imagined me and my SIL being pregnant together, in fact so had she!

My brother and I are very close, and have talked about the fact that now he is going to have children and I am not,and how much it is going to hurt. He has promised to come and tell me himself when my SIL does get pg so that I don't hear it on the family grapevine, which is how I hear of most pregnancies these days!

I just don't know how to resolve these feelings, my DP and I have a great relationship and a good life full of holidays and trips and friends but I just don't want these feelings of jealousy to ruin my relationship with my brother.

I desperately need something in my relationship to make it feel more commited if not a marriage, or a house or a child then what? I suppose that at the end of the day I just think that at any time over the next 30 years my DP could just go off and have a child with someone else, and that would destroy me! 

Sorry for going on a bit...but at least I know that here I will not be judged, and I can't tell any one else for fear of that happening.

L x


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## emmag (Mar 11, 2007)

Hello Liliacha, you're right - you won't be judged here.  Sometimes I've had thoughts that I've been so embarassed about, but there is always someone on this board who has thought it before and tells me I'm completely normal!

I'm wondering when your last tx was, because you sound like you're still raw from it? 5 treatment cycles is an awful lot to go through, physically and emotionally, for both of you.  I know it's hard advice to take (I not very good at doing it for myself!), but I think we really need to be kind to ourselves, and give ourselves a break

You mentioned that you and your chap have both talked about not wanting to get married, and that if you talked to him about it he'd be horrified, but personally, infertility has changed my priorities, and it sounds like it might have changed yours too, maybe his thinking is also changing? Maybe you could find a way together to symbolise your commitment, whatever that means personally to the two of you, maybe you could ask him for ideas on how he feels you could do that? 

The main thing is that whatever you want to say, you can say it here.

Emma x


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## Empty2 (Aug 12, 2006)

Liliacha,

Firstly I am so sorry for your failed treatments sneding you a big hug  .  As emmag has rightly said already you certainly won't be judged here.

Has your clinic offered councilling after your last treatment?  I know most people shy away from it but it does help to see the other halfs point of view more clearly without all the ranting and crying.
Every time my tx fails I also question what's it all about, why am I here, am I holding my DH back when he can have a fulfilled life elsewhere?  I think it is only natural to have these thoughts, but then we talk about it and try and get through it together.

emps
x


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## Maggie Mae (Mar 2, 2006)

Liliaicha, 

Let's stare it in the eye and say that you have been through a hell of a lot. We belong to a generation of women who were told over and over again that everything was possible - the career, the perfect family, the dream home - if we just worked at it hard enough. We were told there were no barriers, that we should maximise on our good fortune of having been born in a liberated age. So when it doesn't happen for us, we are not only dealing with our accute, private sadness, but are left wondering why we didn't qualify for all this marvellousness in an age where women were supposed to be free to be anything we wanted to be, including mothers....

On top of this we live in a society that is progress-hungry, ritual-poor, and emotionally illiterate; it has no interest in understanding or supporting those of us who don't conform to the normal pattern of life, is almost threatened by existence. Pro-natalism (the worship of the family unit that is rife in our society) makes those of us who don't achieve this feel excluded... I am not trying to write a sociology essay or a personal polemic, but I do want to reassure you that the sense you have of not progressing is a natural one for you to feel in a society that prizes conformity above all else. 

The only solace I know - and thankfully it is pretty effective - is the companionship of other women who understand. This has me feeling less excluded, less ill-fitting. I'm proud to be standing shoulder to shoulder with the women I have met here and elsewhere. They hold up a net for me to bounce on on the bad days, they make sure I don't crash to the floor. Let us do the same for you. 

You will find a way of moving forward to gives you that sense of progress. It may not be as conventional as other people's paths, but no matter. Your way does exist. Allow yourself time and gentleness in order to find it. And with your brother, keep talking, keep talking.... He shows a degree of sensitivity to your situation that I am sorry to say is rare amongst the families of other childless women I know, and I hope that means that this coming experience is made an iota more tolerable for you.... 

Every one of the women here has made a 'poor me' post at some point - that's one of the things this place is here for, so don't apologise. But do stay a while amongst us and let us help if we can....

Lots of love to you, 

Leoarna x


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## Myownangel (Aug 24, 2005)

MM is right - you need to find a way forward that fits you and your boyfriend and it doesn't have to be conventional. Society tells us that we have somehow failed if we can'y conceive - and yet in many ways we are actually liberated. We don't have to be wage slaves to pay for an overpriced education for our sprogs; we don't have to buy a big house with loads of bedrooms; we don't have to take our holidays in August; the list goes on. But there are lots of ways that we can make a useful contribution to society. But luckily for us, we can choose how we do that.
I do understand how you are feeling - you have tried so hard with all your treatments. It does take its toll both emotionally and physically. In your post you say you don't know how to resolve your feelings - first off they are normal feelings and secondly, I think you have already started by posting here. Feel free to explore your feelings here. We won't ever judge you and hope to support you as much a we can.
Bernie xxx


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## Liliaicha (Feb 22, 2004)

Thank you all for taking the time to reply to my post, your advice and input is so helpful.



> Maybe you could find a way together to symbolise your commitment


 Emma I love that idea, I'm going to think more on that.

Emps - I do have a counsellor but I go on my own, DP would never come with me. He is of the opinion, 'whatever will be, will be' and he doesn't seem to worry about it, and sometimes I think the only reason he's upset is because I am, not because of the way he feels about the situation.



> They hold up a net for me to bounce on on the bad days


Leoarna, you are so so right!



> you need to find a way forward that fits you and your boyfriend and it doesn't have to be conventional


Thanks Bernie, you are right. It's strange, I have never really been conventional in other aspects of my life so I don't understand why I think I have to be in these areas. I suppose it's just the pressure from family, our peers, society in general and the media.

Thank you all, once again

L x


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi Liliacha,

Mostly, mostly, mostly, but not quite, I have come to terms with not being married to the man I have spent 30 years with! (With a break of 2 years, see below!) So it was wonderful for me to find someone who writes of DP rather than DH. ( I have always used the "H" to mean "heart" rather than "husband" and sometimes needed to explain!)

I hope my story will give you some positive ideas.

Sounds like your DP and mine have a lot in common? And you and I. Not marrying never bothered me (my parents marriage was a lesson in why not to bother and put me off) untill we faced IF, and then I felt a need to somehow cement our relationship, but DP still did not want to marry. 

For all sorts of complicated reasons, including this marriage issue, I ended up leaving DP after we gave up on TX. I had a relationship with a lovely man who did want to marry me, and offered to make my dreams of a house with stables and paddocks for my horses come true. But I missed DP so much and realised that with or without marriage (and wealth) DP was my soulmate. 

Meanwhile, DP, who has a strong personality and lots of charisma, was persued several women and had a relationship with one much younger than me who could have had children with him. But when he began to realise that we could get back together he choose to give our relationship (without the possibility of children) another chance. Such was the quality of his love for me that he was willing to try again, despite the fact I had left him.

We have been back together for over 3 years, though we still live apart (not forever!) This whole experience has made me realise that a mariage ceremony means little. We know we have chosen to be together above all else. 

I would still like to marry, he would still rather not. (His old hippy rejection of convention and of his catholic upbringing?) Maybe we will never resolve this difference, but we do know that we have a solid relationship that is not dependant on having children or of a trip to the reistery office. (We know so many divorced couples who have children, and who have not had children.) 

You say you are worried that DP could leave you in years to come. I think my message to you is to say that whether or not you and your DP actually marry will not change this. 

So why would you and I like to be married? I still would! L -let me know if you canexplain!!!!

Lots of love

Jq xxx


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## Liliaicha (Feb 22, 2004)

Hi Jq

I have read so many of your posts over the past few months, but it never really clicked that you always write 'DP' and not 'DH'! Glad someone is in the same boat as me!

I must admit that I can't explain why I want to get married especially as this is such a new feeling for me - my parents divorced etc etc..

I think if I had got pregnant my 'DP' may have wanted to get married, but only because my MIL says things like _'if you're not married then the children aren't really yours / she could take them away from you / you would have no rights if she left you'_ and other such helpful and sensitive comments!!! 

We haven't really discussed it much - we have been to about 3 weddings over the last few years and all DP ever says is 'what a waste of money' , 'couldn't they find anything better to spend it on', 'if it was me I'd just have a holiday' which is pretty similar to how I feel too, and we have have mentioned a couple of times (just light heartedly) that if we did get married we'd go to Las Vegas and get a huge limo, or get married on a beach somewhere.

This kind of attitude I can understand, as it's mine aswell, it's the comments like 'well she's got him now, there's no escape' or 'she's finally managed to trap her man' that I don't like or understand, especially as we wanted to have children together, and surely children are far more of a "trap" than marriage as you always have your children but you can always divorce your wife!!!

So I find it very difficult to understand why he was happy for us to try to have children together but will not even entertain the idea of marriage.

But as we all know on this thread we don't always get what we want, and maybe like you we will never resolve this difference.

L x


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## emmag (Mar 11, 2007)

Liliaicha said:


> we have been to about 3 weddings over the last few years and all DP ever says is 'what a waste of money' , 'couldn't they find anything better to spend it on', 'if it was me I'd just have a holiday'


I totally agree! We got married in "secret". We didn't tell anyone (well, just the 2 friends who were our witneses) and we just did exactly what we wanted to do for the day. It was brilliant and the most romantic day of my life


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## Myownangel (Aug 24, 2005)

I think you MIL may be the source of why your DP shys away from marriage (!) Her comments are very negative. And I do think it odd that some men are happy to have children with someone but not marry her (to me children are the biggest commitment ever). Maybe you feel insecure because you think that not having children together will mean he is more likely to leave you. Honestly that is not the case – I know so many people who have children together and split up! (Including my sister twice!) 
Personally I needed to get hitched (and so did dh). But if you and dp have been ticking along nicely without it you must ask yourself what has changed. I know that not being able to have kids can really knock your confidence, so I do understand. But getting married won't necessarily fix that. Perhaps you need to tell him that you just need a little reassurance - a sign of commitment after all you've been through together. I think a Las Vegas wedding sound v. romantic!!! 
Bernie x


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## Liliaicha (Feb 22, 2004)

> a sign of commitment after all you've been through together


Thanks Bernie, mind if I steal that bit?

To be honest I don't really think that anything has changed except for the fact that I am beginning to accept the fact that our lives will be without children and that at the end of the day we will only have each other.

I feel a little hypocritical in a way because when asked the question "so when are you two going to get married then?" I have always been the first to proclaim *"we don't need a piece of paper to prove that we love each other and want to be together!"* and I can't really even understand my self why I didn't need that peice of paper when we thought we were going to have kids, but I do now we can't.

L x


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## Myownangel (Aug 24, 2005)

Dear Liliaicha,
I think you have just answered your question. You say "I didn't need that peice of paper when we thought we were going to have kids, but I do now we can't." 
It makes a lot of sense to me. Having children together is the ultimate commitment and true - why would you need a bit of paper when you have flesh and blood? But now the reality is looming that you may not have kids together - and that does change things. Perhaps you need to explain this to him. After all, you are a woman - we are entitled to change our minds (!) But most of all listen to your heart (your heart doesn't always agee with you rational mind!) 
Bernie xxx


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Dear L,

So good to hear from you!

I wonder if the differences about marriage between me and my DP and between you and yours has something to do with families and especially MiLs? My DP sees our relationship as something deep, permanant and meaningful betwen the 2 of us, something that does not need to involve the rest of our families or wider society. I think he does not want anybody else to feel they have a stake or say in our relationship. It is ours, not theirs. Even a "secret" ceremony invites the involvement of others as the only official ceremony remains in the public domain. 

I can appreciate why having children would make someone of this train of thought more amenable to marriage, the grandparents do after all have a strong connection to the children and may feel more comfortable with a formal marriage. But if there are no grandchildren, there is no need for keeping earlier generations content about their expectations. 

I cannot agree that having children together inside or outside marriage is the ultimate commitment. So many people do so without thought, and so many split despite having children.

I hope this is making some sense! I hope the 2 of us can continue to explore this "not married" issue. I think we should congratulate ourselves on being in successful partnerships that have no conventional cement through ceremonies or through children!

Love 

Jq xxx


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## Liliaicha (Feb 22, 2004)

Hi again Jq

Well the marriage debate continues.....



> I cannot agree that having children together inside or outside marriage is the ultimate commitment. So many people do so without thought, and so many split despite having children.


I'm not sure that I agree with you here, I think that if people do have children together it _should_ be the ultimate commitiment, but as you say many people do it without thought, just for the sake of it, through peer or family pressure, or the need to fit in.

*BUT* if, like most of us on here, we do not have children, then we make our ultimate commitment to each other in another way. But what other way? Many people commit to each other through marriage, and some live together and others are just 'together'.

I love your DP's view about other people not having a stake or say in your relationship, it's just *yours*, how relaxed and secure he must feel with you.

Maybe if I felt a bit more like this I wouldn't suddenly have this idea about wanting to be married after all these years!

Take care

L x


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi Liliaicha,

I am not sure whether what I am about to say will add anything new but I felt that I had to weigh into the debate. 

Firstly you should know that I am married and that obviously will influence my thoughts. 

We got married in 2001 after being together for about 2 years. At the time it was about sharing our joy at finding our soul mates at last, with our family and friends and the beginning of our life together - new home, new joint life, hopes of children, hopes and dreams of growing old together. It was never about the wedding or anyone else it was always about us. We did have a really nice wedding but the wedding was about celebrating not about tradition or anything like that. 

Anyway fast forward 6 years. I am not sure whether being married has made any difference to our ability to deal with our infertility. I don't think we would have hurt any more or less, grieved any more or less, loved each other any more or less had we not been married. It just is, we just are and it feels right for us.

I do however know that now we are nearing the end of the road I have the need to change things. I don't feel able to stay living in the house we bought to bring a family up in, I don't want to stay in the job I took to make it easier to go through treatment. These all remind me of what I don’t have, can’t have. 

I want to do something positive, make some positive decisions, take some action, make it different now, because I can't keep feeling this way forever and I guess I am afraid that if I don't make some changes it will hurt this much forever and I can't bear that.

Some days I feel the urge to do things differently more strongly than others, probably linked to how vulnerable I am feeling that day I think. More recently (this weekend even) I have been thinking that actually I love our house and maybe I don’t have to move to get away from the dreams that will never come true for us here. That actually it doesn’t matter where we live the dream still won’t come true and maybe, just maybe we need to look forward and create some new dreams and hopes and memories. Maybe I don’t have to turn my and DHs life upside down. Maybe I can find some peace anyway.

I don’t know whether this makes any sense at all. I guess what I am trying to say is maybe ‘marriage’ isn’t what is going on here. Maybe it is this need to do something, anything differently. Your lives and hopes and dreams have been turned on their heads and maybe you are looking to take control of something important, to have some security. From what you have said it seems as though your DP is there for you. Marriage isn’t necessarily the answer. It won’t solve anything. It is just a case of whether it is the right thing for you.

Take care of yourself.

I hope you are able to work things out.

Love

Vicki
x


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## emmag (Mar 11, 2007)

I have to say that I'm on the "children aren't the ultimate commitment" side. It simply never occurred to me that my commitment to my husband could be in question, whether or not we have a child!

Out of interest, I just asked my husband what he thinks constitutes the ultimate commitment and he said "forsaking all others" and I thought that was a pretty cool answer.


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## Liliaicha (Feb 22, 2004)

It's so great to be able to read other people's views and takes on this subject, mainly because mine are so confused!!! It's only over the last couple of weeks that I have thought that marriage is something that I might like to do.



> maybe you are looking to take control of something important, to have some security


Vicki I think you have hit the nail on the head here, and your right, I don't think that marriage is necessarily the answer either - we just need to do what is right for us and not what is right for other people.

Emmag, your husband's answer was great!

Thanks for listening everyone

L x


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## Liliaicha (Feb 22, 2004)

Me again!

I have just re read my initial post on this subject......just to clarify in my own mind what I was asking, I was quite emtional when I wrote that first post, and think I wrote down my true feelings.

I think that what I'm trying to say is that I _thought_ that having a child was the ultimate commitment my DP and I could make to each because we weren't married. But now that there will be no children I am no less commited to him but feel that I need "something". I just don't know what that "something" is.

6 years together is longer than some marriages, and I can see many more ahead of us so maybe I should think more along the lines of "if it ain't broke................"

Take care

L x


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## Myownangel (Aug 24, 2005)

Dear Liliaicha,
You are right - if it aint broke... don't fix it. But then again I can understand how this whole issue has turned everything upside down for you. And probably that's all it is. I still defend my 'ultimate commitment' comment as even when couples who have had children (as a conscious decision or not) split up - they have the continued commitment at least financially of raising the child. 
I have been trying to think whether being married to my dh has made a difference - and actually don't think so. But what has made a difference to me is his continued reassurance that he's not going anywhere. I need to hear that from him from time to time. He has twigged that I need that - maybe your dp needs a gentle nudge. I'm sure he feels it - but sometimes it needs to be said. (Or ritualised in the form of a big wedding/excuse for a party!)
Bernie xxx


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi L,

I don't think we disagree! Like you, I believe that having children together *should * be an ultimate commitment, but as we both know people have children who do not share this belief or commitment.

I use the word "*an*" (ultimate commitment) because to say having children is *"the"* ultimate excludes people like us who tried so hard for children but were unlucky. We know that people who were so unlucky can be totally committed, married or not.

You and I do seem to have in common a desire to marry after all we have been through. We do not seem to have "logical" reasons as we can see that our reluctant would be husbands are totally committed to us without that trip to church/registry office. I still do not understand why it is so important to me! (I may post soon about a recent experience that has brought this up again for me!)

Good to hear your thoughts................

Lots of love

Jq xxx


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## Myownangel (Aug 24, 2005)

Jq - if we are talking semantics then yes, having children is 'an' ultimate commitment. There are plenty of other less conventional ways. And thinking about it - perhaps staying together with our partners through all this loss and heartache is actually the ultimate commitment after all.
Bernie x


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Here here Bernie.

I know plenty of people, married or not who would definitely not have made it through all the c**p we have had to. This IF definitely tests your comittment to each other and I think we should all be proud of the fact that we can go what we go through and still remain as, if not more, comitted to each other than we were to start off with.
Vicki
x


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