# Feeling deflated



## Puggle (Mar 3, 2016)

Hi Everyone,

So, the wife and I had our follow up consultation at BCRM yesterday after our third unsuccessful cycle (twice as an egg sharing and both recipients are pregnant with my eggs). We spent lots of time researching what investigations or treatments we could have and compiled an exhaustive list of questions, hoping to get a positive new direction to go in. And the response? Basically that the cycles went well so they would suggest doing the same again. I feel so frustrated and deflated by that  

I know, clearly there is no problem with the protocol as  I get a reasonable number of eggs, good enough quality to get (people other than me) pregnant with. But surely they can't call NOT getting pregnant after a cycle a success regardless of how good the eggs/ lining/ response to drugs etc were...?

Their response to all my questions about tests for hidden chlamydia, thrombophillia, thryroid issues, uterine blood flow were all pooh-poohed. They said don't bother they are expensive and waste of time. I feel like I heard the phrase 'no evidence' a hundred times during the appointment. He did very begrudglying offer to refer me to a Mr Akande for immune testing (all the while saying 'no evidence'), but with the preface that the wouldn't offer any intralipids or IVIG, just steroids at most.

I felt particularly confused by the refusal to entertain thrombophillia screening. He kept saying its only for recurrent miscarrage not for IVF failure.... Is that right? I don't think so.

Sigh.

xxx


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## Coolish (Jul 10, 2012)

Puggle - really sorry to see you've been unsuccessful and that your clinic are not very receptive to your suggestions. 

I had a different scenario but similar issues. I had 4 failed DE cycles with one clinic - the clinic had said that my lining was perfect, the blasts were perfect, the sperm was perfect. In fact it couldn't be more perfect, except I had 2 straight BFNs and 2 chemicals. 

I did all the research, very similar to your list, and my clinic pooh-poohed it all. They didn't believe in hidden c, immunes etc - funnily enough they do seem to do immunes protocols now..

Anyway, I decided it was time for a change of clinic. It was a completely different approach - I found I had hidden c so took the ABs and had a hysto. The thrombo tests were fine. My new clinic agreed that it sounded like I had immunes issues and treated me as such - steroids and intralipids. You know what? I actually became pregnant on my first cycle with them 

If you can, consider whether you want to move clinic. If you can't then you can arrange some of those tests, such as hidden c, yourself. 

Good luck xx


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## Hopefulshell (Mar 14, 2013)

Sorry to hear your clinic's response and attitude to immunes. Unfortunately there appears to be a big divide between fertility drs' views on this but it's no coincidence that those clinics with good results like ARGC and Dr G at FGA test and treat immune issues. 

In your situation with two recipients falling pregnant with your eggs I would definitely investigate further independently. If you've got an understanding GP they may perform the thrombophilia tests for you. If not there are plenty of private gynoecologists who will do this for you (I had mine done at The Gynae Centre in London costing £500). Serum offer hidden infections testing which is done via the post so you don't have to go to Athens or be a patient with them. When it comes to having in-depth level 2 immune testing done, again I had most of mine done at The Gynae Centre and saw Dr G too. Lots of ladies go to see Professor Quenby in the Midlands instead. All this info can be found in Agate's guide under the immune investigations thread  which gives you loads of ideas for what to try after a failed cycle. You may also want to consider a hysteroscopy if you haven't had one before which looks at the inside of your womb to see if there is any problems such as scarring or polyps that could be interfering with implantation. I've also had an endometrial scratch too.

There is lots you can try so please don't lose hope. You've got great quality eggs so it's a case now if finding out why they aren't working out as they should at the moment. If it's found that you do have things that require treatment Dr G will do this alongside your own clinic's protocol if necessary. Or you may want to consider moving to another clinic. That's a big decision so perhaps do the tests first and see what they reveal first. I took all the results I had done privately to my clinic dr who acquiesced and said that with these issues untreated success would be unlikely. I personally definitely believe immune issues can affect implantation and pregnancy and was fortunate that my clinic did treat with blood thinners, steroids and ILs. It's a shame not all clinics sing from the same hymn sheet but by taking control yourself you could just find that missing part of the jigsaw and save yourself any more heartache  

All the very best for the next steps.

X


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## Puggle (Mar 3, 2016)

Hi Hopefulshell and cooljules

Thanks so much for your helpful and kind replies  

We are now thinking about changing clinics to CGRW in cardiff, they are offering a free consultation if you have has a negative cycle elsewhere, so we've booked in for thursday next week. They offer NK cell testing so I'm hoping they will take a more proactive attitude.

I did have a look at the Serum clinic but as far as I can make out, from the slightly confusing information on the internet, is that Greece don't treat f/f couples so we are restricted to the UK (or spain). In a way its a relief to not have to seriously consider going abroad, but in another ways its frustrating we can't access the the cheaper facilities   I think we can still do the menstrual blood test by post with them though. Do you think I should do that too, or just wait and see what the new clinic say?

Zoe xxx


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## Coolish (Jul 10, 2012)

I would definitely crack on with the nenstrual blood test as you can do this independent of any clinic.

Incidentally the clinic i successfully moved to was Serum and i can't recommend them enough. I'm sure they treat f/f couples?  I would recommend emailing them - they respond very quickly.  I did this and then a few days later had a free telephone consultation with the wonderful Penny. After 2 minutes of talking to her she'd already got a complete grasp of our situation and was suggesting solutions.  It's  a lovely atmosphere at the clinic and lots of support  and information here on FF.

I'd love to go back, but I'm past Greece's cut off age so I'm now going to Team Miracle in Northern Cyprus - who also treat f/f couples


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## Puggle (Mar 3, 2016)

Thanks cooljules, I will consider it strongly! I'm nervous about treatment abroad if Im honest, is it scary being so far from the clinic? Don't the travel and accommodation costs spiral? Did you struggle with the language barrier?
xx


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## Coolish (Jul 10, 2012)

I've cycled in Spain too and there was even less of a language barrier in Greece  I stayed very near the clinic (walking distance) every time I've been. Travel from the airport and around Athens is very easy with public transport. Flights and hotels do add to the costs but it was still cheaper for us than the UK - and the level of care was much better. Communication at Serum was way above what I've received in both the UK and Spain. Yes, it can be scary the first time you go over for a consult or treatment but if you look at the Serum cycle boards there are lots of couples and single ladies over there at any point and they arrange meet ups and are very supportive 

Go and have a look at the Serum boards and contact the clinic - see how you feel about it. Ask questions as I'm sure there will be plenty of responses - we've all asked the same ones! It's worth checking out other clinics too. There's lots of information here on FF...


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