# fed up



## blue-bird (Apr 17, 2005)

Hi

I haven't posted in this part of the board before but our options have now narrowed completely. I suspect adoption is our only chance and thought I'd come to terms with it but recently so many of my old schoolfriends are becoming pregnant and I'm finding it hard again. It's nothing new, every time we've cycled someone close to us has been pregnant, usually one of our 3 sisters, but I've just found out via ******** that my childhood best friend is pregnant and I'm finding it particularly difficult.

Is there a way to mourn the 'loss of our birth child' even though i've never been pregnant? I really thought I was ready to move on and have ordered all the adoption packs but today I'm not so sure.

Sorry for the me me me post, just venting really.

bb x


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## nbr1968 (Feb 25, 2008)

Dear bluebird

First - I am sorry you are feeling so sad - I am glad that you felt able to come to FF and "vent" - we all understand the feelings of sadness you are feeling. Every pg announcement is like a stab in your heart. I am at the stage now where i am actually having to hear about my friends becoming grandparents now!

You are grieving - for what your life could have been with a child/ren you so long for. The fact that you have not been pg does not make the loss you feel any less poignant, but it does mean that those around you who maybe have not had your struggle, will have no idea of the depth of grief that you feel. Moving on is so hard and scary - I am at that stage now, and I am dreading 2010 - because i know I will have to make some big decisions.

Unfortunately, you are likely to be the only one on your circle of friends/family who really understand the cruelness of infertility, and i certainly feel that nobody other my Dh really has any clue how this can wreck our lives - Christmas was hard, and the only way we could get through this year was to be just the two of us and not pretend anymore that everything was fine. Because it is not.

So unfortunately, I do know how you feel, and although I know words do not help, all I can say is you are not alone here, and you can "rant" or "vent" or write as many "me" posts as you like - we will listen and understand and empathise.

with many  

Nbr68xxx


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## Rowan22 (Dec 29, 2008)

Hi Bluebird,

i think your feelings are perfectly normal. I don't know what the answer is but I suspect everybody on this forum has had them at some time or other, even those people who go on to get a bfp. 
It must be particularly hard when it's your sisters who are pregnant. I've been spared that, as I've got no sisters and my brother hasn't had children. 
I wish you the best of luck in your adoption journey. It didn't work out for us, unfortunately and it's not an easy road but it can and does work for some people. 
I hope your Christmas wasn't too bad and you managed to get some enjoyment out of the time. Our Christmas was OK and I thought I was coping until I went to see my mother and was told that two guys I used to babysit for when they were little boys now have kids of their own! That sort of thing is desperately hard, I remember them when they were children! And yet they must be in their 20s now, so it is possible. I spent most of yesterday either crying or deep in despair. And yes, I have friends who are grandparents, too. 
It makes you feel you've really, really missed out on a whole stage of life and now it's too late. And you can't stop the rest of the world having children, even four, five, six, etc. We all know that but it doesn't make it any easier to cope with the feelings!
Also, if I read one more post anywhere on this forum saying that once you're over 40 your eggs are cr*p I will scream! The clinics may not be able to do IVF with older eggs but that doesn't mean they are rubbish. Women have always got pregnant in their 40s and even their 50s, though they didn't always want the child. The scientific picture is a little more complicated than that and new research is coming out all the time. 
Why do people have to say that? They are simply condeming those of us who for whatever reason couldn't have children in their thirties to utter despair. It also makes you feel you've got one foot in the grave (not hard if you've also got other health problems)! It's like saying 'you're over 40, it's now downhill all the way!' We haven't all got thousands of pounds for donor egg IVF and it doesn't always work the first or even the third time. 
Grr! Sorry, bit of a rant there!
I don't know how you mourn your biological child and move on, I am still stuck on that one but I wish you all the best in your quest to make a family some other way.
Nbr, how are you? I hope you managed to find at least a little peace this Christmas with your dh.  

Rowanx


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## nbr1968 (Feb 25, 2008)

Hi BB and Rowan

Just picked up this post and thought would see how you are both feeling? What has your Christmas and New Year been like?

Rowan, you asked how I am - not good to be honest - Christmas was Ok but the New Year was awful - the day was fine, and we were on our own out of choice - could not face the usual NY celebrations. But then I watched the BBC evening coverage of the celebrations in London while DH was fast asleep, and they reviewed the last decade and I realised how much happened in the previous ten years and how my life seems to have stood still because here I am childless, bereaved and still no further forward.

I broke down on New Years Day at my in-laws house (because my Mother in law (MIL) had mentioned that a friend of mine who is the same age as me, and had ME a while ago now has a "babe" to quote my MIL) - and really feel so scared for what lies ahead in 2010 - I feel so negative about the future and have no hope that i will be a mother to a live child.

It is good to hear that maybe at nearly 42 my eggs are not useless because that's how i feel and that'w what the docs say (even those who have previously been very positive about our chances) - the cons is now saying we should move to Donor eggs and I am just so bereft about that - I just don't know what to think or feel - i am grieving about that now too!

I have no idea how to feel more positive about 2010 - any ideas? Do you two feel any more positive now that 2009 has ended?

Would be good to hear your views - NBr68xxx


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## Rowan22 (Dec 29, 2008)

Hi Nbr,

I'm sorry to hear about your awful New Years Day. I know exactly what you mean about time standing still and I have the same feeling. I don't think I've achieved anything since my early thirties when I was suddenly seriously ill, apart from mere survival. I've not even been able to work full time. 
We spent New Years Day at my bil, which was fine except that his son and his son's new wife were there and they were talking about all their plans, which don't include children yet. As she's 34, I nearly said that perhaps they ought to think about it but didn't. They have plenty of money and were talking about going to America to work. 
Back home, I was faced with the realisation that all options are closed as we just don't have any money. I was arguing about trying de with dh yesterday but he just goes on saying we can't possibly afford it. I spent half the night awake, crying. 
So no, I don't feel particularly positive about this new year and I can't help feeling that unless we manage to win the lottery, it's going to be exactly the same as the last!
I've been reading old posts on this board. Somehow, people seem to manage to move on, at least a lot of people no longer post here, so presumably they don't feel they need to. How do you make a life without children and later on, grandchildren when everyone else seems to have no trouble popping out babies? 
I am getting to the point where I just want to stop suffering. This week is bad because another period is looming. To make matters worse, I have a birthday this month. (Don't you just hate the things?!) I think someone posted about acceptance on the other thread. I'm not there but I feel like a rat in a trap. All options are closed and I am stuck in this body which wants to reproduce but can't. 
I've even thought of having a hysterectomy. I can't _make _my body conceive but I can at least end the uncertainty. However, my doctor wouldn't hear of it. 
How do you deal with all these thoughts and feelings? I cry and that brings a little relief but it's hardly an answer. Even meditation only brings momentary relief because the thoughts just start up again as soon as I stop. The other problem I'm having is to do with identity. What use is a middle aged woman without children? People treat me as if I've come from another planet and I only feel acceptable at work, where I have a specific role. 
The 'old egg' debate isn't over yet. There's been some research done at Harvard which suggests that women produce new eggs all their lives. I haven't looked for the study, so can't produce the link but it's worth checking out. Another study looked at the eggs of women younger than 40 and women over 40 and found no discernable differences. 
At the moment, I'm swallowing lots of herbs, as some herbalists, like Susun Weed, pour scorn on the whole 'too old at 40' idea and say that women have been having babies into their 50s for generations. There's some evidence that this is true, particularly for women in other societies. 
I'm not trying to give you false hope or myself, for that matter and there is a certain amount of clutching at straws about all this but it might help to mitigate the incredibly grim picture that you get from the clinics. They all seem to toe the party line, for some reason and some have even told women in their early thirties that their eggs are too old! (Is this another form of anti-feminism: if the treatment fails, blame the woman or the woman's body? Germaine Greer has an interesting take on all this.) And there are two things I know for a fact: my former neighbour had a baby at 45 last year and a relative had her last child at 49. In both cases, they were unassisted natural conceptions. My neighbour had even started the menopause: her periods were all over the place!
You are most certainly not useless! 
It may be that your cons are trying to think of an approach that may work first time, which would save you money but I agree, it's just not that simple to think of moving to donor eggs. I can respect women who've done this and it's worked for them but I don't think it's the answer for everyone, even if money is no object. 
I'm sorry for the length of this post but just writing it has made me feel a bit better! I prefer to be angry rather than drowning in floods of tears! 
Look after yourself.

Rowanx


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## kizzymouse (Jan 13, 2006)

Oh gosh! I have felt every single one of those emotions and feelings you all mentioned!!
It's so hard isn't it?

A year and a few months ago we had last ivf cycle - at last a faint +ve only for it to turn to bfn. Was gutted and we said no more.
But I couldnt let it go and i was determined to try DE or surrogacy. Mentioned it to my BF and she has offered to try host surrogacy!!!!!
But I am not getting excited cos it might not happen or might not work.

I wish we could all have a baby - if I could wish for anything I'D WISH FOR THAT.
So unfair when you see unfit mothers with unwanted abused children!     Where is the logic in THAT!

Sending you all hugs and positive thoughts


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## nbr1968 (Feb 25, 2008)

hello again

Rowan- thanks for the kind thoughts, and for sharing your experience. So much of what you have written I have thought or felt - lying awake in bed and crying, wanting to "get rid" of the reproductive paraphenalia (especially as in my case I also have endometriosis and my AF are very painful).

My in-laws keep saying we must think about how our lives will move on without a child, and I can honestly say that I have no idea how I can move on from this nightmare. I honestly cannot see a future without children. The truth is that i never thought I would be here - never thought what has happened to us would ever happen - and so quite simply I am in shock. A sort of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder if you like. i just don't know how people "move on" and I truly hope that somehow I can find some peace.

I had my first AF after the recent mc over Christmas and New Year and I think that did not help my "highly strung" state. Rowan, I am thinking about you this week   with your AF looming, and I know how you feel about birthdays too - I hate them - they just remind me that yet another year has gone by and I am stuck. I cry every day, keep thinking about my son, about the mc, about the unfairness of life where those who don't even want children have them, and how much we are all suffering trying to do what everyone else seems to do without any trouble at all. 

I know that so many women have babies much later in life, but Rowan, i have also been lead to believe that they are women who have already had previous live births? My doctor says that with proven natural fertility it is easier to get pg because the body sort of "knows" what to do - I just feel that i am not going to be in that small group - I just feel now that my time to become a mother is slipping away - i am watching my fertility go down the drain and I can do nothing about it. DE is an option but it is so hard to think about that, and I don't know why...I have just gone from being a clear thinking, logical person, and turned into this mess and i feel like i am just turning in circles and cannot find a way out.

Are any of you finding that you are losing friends? We used to be so social - our house was like party-central at times, and now i have just hibernated, shut myself off from people, we saw nobody over Christmas other than the in-laws, and did nothing at New Year and have not even wished people a Happy New Year and I feel dreadful - but other than when i am working, I do not seem to be able to hold it together and not get emotional or even cry! 

So Rowan, like you I am taking all sorts of herbs and vitamins etc, and live in the deluded hope that one month AF will not arrive and we could be pg "naturally" - not likely to happen with DHs lazy swimmers! 

Sorry for the me post - I shall shut up now!

Kizzymouse - i am so happy for you that you have the friend who can be your surrogate - there is no way we could do this because of money - all my friends are too old to be surrogates and I honestly think if they were not, that they would not necessarily offer anyway. I   it all works out for you.

I hope that the New Year will be better for all of us - or atleast give us some peace  

Nbr68xx


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## Rowan22 (Dec 29, 2008)

Hi Nbr,

I cut myself off from my contemporaries a long time ago. A lot of friends had babies in their twenties and they weren't particularly kind or patient with them (used to hit them, etc, which was more common in the eighties than it is now). Some of them even said they were fed up with their kids and spent hardly any time with them. I think the problem is that twenty something might be the best time physically but not necessarily in other ways because you've still got to mature. 
I can relate to the mind in a whirl. I am usually rational, as well but I've had so much ill health in the last decade and it's been a question of having to come to terms with several chronic conditions. Every time it's been hard. Now this. I have had enough of having to 'accept' nasty things!  
Needless to say, I've ended up hating my body, which certainly isn't rational but I can't help it. 
Have you thought about counselling? I have thought about it but again it's a question of money. 
It may be that at our advanced age, donor eggs are the only answer but I'm still not entirely convinced. And financially, it's impossible at the moment. There is one point, though, if we do have to go to donor eggs, we can forget about our age and that desperate urgency, the sense of all time running out, eases. It's the age of the donor that's important, not ours. 
And you can get treatment with donor eggs abroad well into your fifties. 
You're right: life is bl***y unfair! If all this is karma, I'd like to know what I did that was so awful in a previous existence! And yes, I have excruciatingly painful periods, too though no cause has ever been found. 
You may find that your emotions stablise after a few more weeks. You've had a rotten time, remember, you have a right to cry and be angry! If I'd had an ectopic, I'd be angry, too - and broken hearted.  
Kizzymouse, all the best for the surrogacy! It does sound exciting! You have a great friend there! It's an incredible thing for anyone to offer to do. I hope it works out for you both.  
Going back to normal reality helps a bit, I find. At least I can concentrate on work and that helps to keep my mind occupied. 
Look after yourselves.

Rowanx


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## brightspirit (Dec 29, 2009)

Hi girls 

  Hope you are all ok and survived your christmases -I don't want to intrude here but did post on the light at the end of the tunnel thread too and just wanted to let you know maybe as a fellow traveller a little further down the line that things do get better ...
I never thought I could feel happy again and everything you guys say I remember thinking the anger/injustice/depression you name it I felt it but now a bit further on it really does fade and now don't feel it much at all but do feel valued as person/wife/friend/colleague/mum  to my dog and cat  ... but it has been a definite challenge to make my life more interesting and it is !!!
Please remember this because it will get easier and life will open up in ways you wouldn't have thought believe me - I know many people with children who are miserable and vice versa -happiness it not exclusively for those with children we just think it is  !!!  Wishing you all a fruitful 2010 - xxx


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