# Sticky  Pincushion princesses. Multiple BFNs and implantation failure support thread #2



## wibble-wobble

Set up this new thread for you as the first one has gotten very long.

Happy chatting

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=372041.new#new


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## K jade

new  thread how exciting!  


Oh bippy that’s not on! Your own sister too!    

Carrie im sending you lots of positivity for tomorrow, even if you dont have hope after all  the setbacks you’ve had. 
I do! think of that beautiful new  lining all ready and waiting to embrace those embies ..

This is going to be the last cycle I have with expensive vitamins. only last month I spent £60 odd on them. I've just gone and done the same now as last night they had all run out. this is such a waste of money! they don't do a dam thing


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## bippy11

New thread! I think it's a lucky thread   xxx

Carrie hope everything goes smoothly for transfer tomorrow. How are you feeling? It's always a nervous wait until the little embie is actually onboard. Are you transferring one or two? Good luck hun!   xxx

kjade I agree, I think most of the expensive vitamins are pointless unless you actually have a deficiency of something. But if it makes you feel better then take them, £60 is just a drop in the ever-deepening fertility expenses ocean after all! I think all this fertility treatment has altered my perspective on money, I would have never thought I would spend such vast amounts!


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## apples2014

Oooh new thread 💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕

Good luck for your transfer Carrie, sending you massive good luck bear hugs


Hi ya everyone else! 

Love Apples x


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## fifibell

Hey ladies 

Hope you all keeping warm

Best of luck for the transfer tomorrow. Fingers and toes crossed


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## Carrie88

AHHHhh new thread!!

I need to go back to the old thread and catch up but thank you for the good luck messages everyone: I’m actually poorly and hoping to feel better tomorrow. Also worried about trains as well and the snow. Going to bed now to get an early night, night night xx


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## Northern

Ah wow we're on our second thread! 

Carrie lots of luck for your transfer tomorrow, hope you feel better and the snow doesn't cause any issues! Got everything crossed for you lovely xxx

Sorry not been on much, am trying to keep up in the background but had a v busy few weeks, been good to keep my head busy though lol xx


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## wibble-wobble

Hope this new thread brings you all some luck


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## bippy11

How did it go for you today Carrie? Really hope everything went well. x


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## K jade

Carrie hope your done and dusted, and home and dry now.
sending you positive thoughts. IT happens. and it happens after multiple BFNs the same as it does to first timers.    

well the delightful public announcement came yesterday from the SIL. complete with light-hearted humour and about 3 scan pics. 
gotta love that un follow button
urgh. social media at its worst!
funnily enough no word from my own sister. she also did not send any response to the scan pics sent to the two of us. 
im bitter and  barren but not sure what her excuse is?  

xx


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## Northern

Aw kjade sorry you're dealing with all that, infertility is one thing but infertility alongside pregnancies/announcements/scans is a whole other level of cruel.  I'm slightly twisted but whenever I see a scan pic it always makes me want to post one of my own, "here's my scan of my ovaries with all 26 follicles fit to burst" and see what comments come back hahaha - just to make the point that not all scans mean good news.  It does make me wonder what effect it has on other people too, eg cancer sufferers who must also associate scans with dread. 

Carrie how did you get on yesterday?  Been thinking of you, hope all went smoothly and the snow didn't cause any issues.  Are you feeling any better? 

Hope everyone's ok in the snow - it's a snow day here and am working from home but it's really not very dramatic, think the rest of the country has it much worse this time.  Needless to say the co-op is running out of milk though  

Xx


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## K jade

Northern said:


> whenever I see a scan pic it always makes me want to post one of my own, "here's my scan of my ovaries with all 26 follicles fit to burst"Xx


YES , and me!!


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## Carrie88

Hello ladies!! 

All went ok, it was just such a long day.
Embryo thawed fine - still 5AC. 
They used embryo glue this time.
Unfortunately my progesterone came back a bit low at 57...needed to be 80 so I've upped that.
I am feeling better, just got a stuffy nose now.

Had a really stressful upsetting day yesterday as my sister messaged me to say her boyfriend had broken up with her. She's 27 and they've been together since she was 19.
Apparently he didn't see a future.
I personally think he's met someone else.
She lives in Leicester so miles away from me in wirral and miles away from my mum and dad in Lancashire - I cried for 2 hours in work yesterday knowing she was so upset and I was so far from her.
He better hope I never see his sorry ass again.


Kjade - sorry about the announcement, I always think it hurts all over again even if you've been pre warned because of the picture and all the comments.
Are you gonna ask your sister why she's not replying? 
Least it's out now and you've told her what you're going through so hopefully they won't be much more for you especially as you've unfollowed her  

MrsC - I can't believe the drama you had getting over to Sri Lanka. Oh my god!! Hopefully the rest of your holiday has gone smoothly, can't wait to hear all about it in a couple of weeks  xx

Bippy/northern - how are you ladies doing this week? Xx


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## Angedelight

Hi all

Carrie glad transfer went well. When's your 30th?? Keeping everything crossed for you that this is the one 🤞
Sorry to hear about your sister, I hope you get to see her soon.

KJade- everytime I see scan pictures it's like a punch in the stomach. I'm so envious of people who post them
at 12 weeks assuming they'll have a baby at the end of it.  I think once you've frequented these boards for sometime and know how many things can go wrong at any stage that is taken away from us. What's your sisters situation?. Very odd to have no response. I'm all over the cheap vits now!. Gone is my £80 odd quid a month supplement bill. 

Northern- love that alternative scan idea!. Any change of heart with your SD?. 

Bippy how are you doing? Did you get to chat properly to your friend?. Funnily enough it's been my male friends who've been the best at saying just the right thing. I think being open with people definitely takes pressure off.

Hi Fifi and apples and anyone else.

When I put about setting up a group for the meet up FF changed it to social media group. I meant using a popular messaging site beginning with W! If people want to PM me their numbers at some point before next Saturday when we meet  I'll set a group up.

Dr just phoned with my thyroid results. It's down to 0.23. Amanda at CGRW says she wanted it between 0.3 and 2.5 so the Dr said to take 75mg and retest in 4 weeks. She said T4 was normal- 13.8 with ref range 12-22. Carrie and KJade is that ok??. I asked the Dr if she thought anything indicated anything more serious and she said no.

So I'm off to Coventry tomorrow subject to trains still running. Seeing Prof Brosens. Do I need to take any notes or anything?? Or is it just a chat??.

Hope everyone is coping with the cold, sunny Sri Lanka feels a distant memory! 

X


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## K jade

Aw carrie that's so sad for your sister.  Bet she's devastated 
Will u visit her? 
Having been on the receiving end of a few break ups in my early 20s I tend to agree with u
Men don't really break up with a woman with no one else lined up. 
Congrats on being PUPO! !

Mrsc yes to everything u said . I find it really arrogant if I'm  honest 
My sister has had a terrible time  . She single mum her kids fathers were violent and she left both of them. Her son and daughter are great but they're walking ASBOs. She's always skint and struggles with drink when she's really down. 
I really wish we were closer as we're both bitter and cynical !
Glad u had a lovely time in Sri Lanka,  u take any pics? 
Thyroid well carrie recently had the same problem where TSH sunk too low. Dr Gs take was it doesn't really affect implantation if I'm right. It's a sluggish thyroid that's the problem as baby doesn't have one of its own until week 12 so relys on mum's.  U have antibodies? 
Enjoy your roadie to cov tomorrow. No Mr B won't look at any paperwork,  so just need your mouth and memory .oh and painkillers 

Will pm u my number.

Heading home now as office has shut during to 1mm of snow. Any excuse in this country 
Bureselin starts tomorrow let's hope I get the dosage right this time 

Looking foward to meeting u all next sat! !  xx


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## bippy11

Carrie congrats on being PUPO. I so so hope this is it for you!  
Sorry to hear about your sister, that must be so hard after being with him for so many years and quite formative years. Poor thing. She's still young and although it will take her time to get over it, she will hopefully go on to meet someone else. I hadn't met my hubbie by 27. She's lucky she's got you who cares so much about her. 

MrsC you're back! Was Sri Lanka amazing? Hope it goes well at Coventry tomorrow, I will hopefully be going in a couple of weeks! I had a scan yesterday, I have one follicle of 10mm after taking Chlomid for a week. Dr has given me some Merional to take for a few days to make sure it continues to grow so I can ovulate and get booked in with Coventry.  

I haven't met my friend yet, but will tell him when I next see him.  

Kjade good luck starting tomorrow - yes make sure the dose is right this time! 

Im having a bit of a difficult time with my family at the moment. Its a bit long to explain, but my mum and sister are just not being very supportive or kind. I get upset about it as I feel I have really tried to be open and trusting with them. It has caused me a lot of extra upset over the years on top of having to deal with all the actual treatment etc. I think from now on I just won't tell them about it anymore so I don't open myself up to any more hurt. 

I don't have a smartphone or this popular app starting with W   Mrs C could I send you my number and you send me yours so I can text / call on the day if needed? I think I will need to meet you guys at the place as I think my train doesn't get in till around 1. Ooh I can't believe it's next Saturday - how exciting! x


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## Northern

Aw Bippy sorry your family is getting you down.  I know what you mean, dealing with them on top of all the hurt is sometimes just another burden - which is the last thing you need at times.  We told my parents but I haven't told my brothers for that very reason, I know particularly the elder one would be full of 'advice' which most of the time would just be hurtful.  Hard though it is to go through it all quietly, sometimes I think it's definitely the easier option, there's much less explaining.  Big hugs to you   xxx

Carrie that's sad for your sister    you may be right, but it could just be the approaching 30s acting as a bit of a wake-up call - that happened with a friend of mine who broke up with her fiance 6 weeks before their wedding - they'd been together since uni but it was only in the lead-up to their wedding that she realised they actually weren't particularly happy together and it wasn't 'right'; must have felt very harsh to him but it was a brave decision and they're both much happier now.  Hope she's doing ok and you get to see her soon.  
Glad your transfer went well, god I really hope this is the one   

Mrs-C welcome back!  Can imagine sunshine and warmth feels like a distant memory!  Thanks for asking - sadly no change with sd and the longer it goes on the worse it feels, I was hoping she would have thawed a little by now but no sign of it. 

I'll pm you my number - so excited to meet you all next week! 
Hi to everyone xx


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## apples2014

Hello Little quick message 

Carrie congrats on transfer, fingers and toes and everything crossed lovely lady xxx

Mrs C welcome back. Prof Brosen’s is so lovely. He will take your Ivf/ Fertility info you don’t need your notes if it’s all in your head as he writes down what you tell him. He’s really very lovely. Good luck with trains! 

Hi ya everyone else! 
Nothing much to report. My mum is doing amazing so that’s a relief. All being okay will try the natural FET protocol  next cycle. I’m on day 25 of this one so all being well not long now and then it begins again!! Not tried since the chemical in August. This is the longest break I’ve ever taken but it’s been good. 

I’m sorry I can’t meet you guys next Saturday, Amsterdam will be fun but would have loved to have met you all. Next time! 

Lots of love to everyone apples xxx


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## Angedelight

Well I couldn't go to Coventry due to all trains being cancelled!! Bloody snowmageddon. They've rebooked me for Monday so fingers crossed the period holds off till then and I can get it done.

Apples glad your Mum is on the mend. Have a fab time in Amsterdam.

Northern really sort your SD has not changed her position. Hope she does soon. 

Bippy so sorry you're not getting support from your family. This stuff is hard enough without all that on top of it. 

KJade- Anti TPO antibodies were tested last Sept when thyroid was over 4. They were 13.3 and reference was <34.0. Think that seems Ok. I've since had levothyroxine. I did try to blag the GP to test T3 as well but she wasn't having any of it and said it all seemed ok but to reduce dose.

Hi everyone else. Hope you're all managing ok in the snow! ❄❄❄


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## bippy11

oh no MrsC! How annoying! This snow is causing absolute chaos!! Really hope you can get it done on Monday. When is your period due? 

Apples so glad that your mum is doing well. It's an exciting time with your FET coming up next cycle after such a long wait. Hopefully a natural cycle will be a bit easier to manage. 

Northern such a shame your SD hasn't come round yet. What is her objection? Do you think she is worried her dad will focus more on the baby and have less time for her? Even if she didn't come round to the idea, would you still go ahead with the adoption? 

Carrie hope you're not going too mad in your 2WW. It's crazy what it does to your mind! x

kjade have you done your injection this morning or is it evening? x

We just got the result from our miscarriage - they managed to still test the tissue. It was two boys and there was no chromosomal abnormalities. Im glad there wasn't because that makes me trust the rest of our PGS tested embryos are hopefully good. We just won't know why it happened. It's strange knowing they were boys, makes it a bit more possible to imagine. Even if only for a few weeks, they were still our babies and we saw their little hearts beating and I am glad to know what gender they were. 

We are having a snow day! Hubbie's school is closed so I took the day off too at late notice


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## Northern

Aw Bippy, that's some bittersweet news for you    glad they managed to do the tests after all the drama and issues, and good news for the rest of your embies.  Must bring it all home again though knowing more about them.  However short their existence, no-one can take away the fact that they did exist and will always be remembered and loved. xxx

Mrs-C how frustrating!!  Fingers crossed af holds off and you don't have to rearrange, hope you're all keeping safe in the blizzards down there!!

Xx


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## K jade

Bippy I'm glad u got your results back. That's reassuring to know  they were chromosomally normall but must  be upsetting as well as u probably think WHY !!?. Will u do immune meds  with your FET again ?  

Northern sorry your SD hasn't thawed. Don't let this stop you applying though as I said the fact she doesn't live with u and is nearly an adult maKes it less of an issue . Your the ones adopting not her 

Sorry u couldn't get to cov MrsC. Fingers crossed for Monday. My TPOs were the same as yours funnilly enough. I did read somewhere they should ideally be 0 but not sure if this was a reliable source  .Anyway dr G said mine were absolutely fine. I have however gone a bit crazy with my diet to try and reduce them nethertheless. 

Apples glad ur mum is doing better and hoping u have a great time in Amsterdam and let your hair down a little too 

Snow is starting to thaw a bit here. Its been  almost a foot deep! 
1st dose of burselin last night and I got it right !!
xx


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## Carrie88

Hello lovely ladies!!! 

Sorry I've been awol, I've felt so poorly but better this weekend and it's been my 30th today so had a lovely day xx

MrsC - gutted you couldn't get to Coventry cos of the snow. Are the trains all set to run tomorrow? Don't forget pain relief!! Ill PM you my number - I do have the W app haha xx

Kjade - yaaay to you doing the buserlin right  haha I don't think you'll make that mistake again. Yes I'm seeing my sister next Sunday, can't wait to give her a hug!! Xx

Apples - glad to hear your mum is doing well!! Fingers crossed that continues. Have an amazing time in Amsterdam!! Xx

Bippy - that's defo bittersweet - although least you know it was definetly the soil and not the seed - the fact you know the gender has to make it harder for you though, big hugs!! Have they spoken to you about what they're going to do next to make sure it doesn't happen again? Xx

Northern - bet that was such a shock for everyone with your friend splitting up with her fiancé. Has she met someone else now? Hope you're doing ok lovely? Xx


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## K jade

Carrie happy 30th  . Glad u had a lovely day and maybe even enjoyed a cheeky drink too. 

God I've just been absolutely battered over the weekend money wise. Over £200 worth of  fines came through  for 2 offences of driving in bus lanes (supposedly ),  THEN we realised that our car tax MOT and insurance is all up  either in the next few days OR has already expired. Dunno how dh missed all this he's usually on top of things. Oh and 3 new tyres needed  too.
I'm skiving work this morning to sort it out .just wanna cry when I think of all that money flying out our account .
This , compiled with bros baby news has made for a really rubbish couple of weeks  where u just think WHY .
On a positive note I've not screwed up my burselin  injections just yet. 
However just realised bad things usually come in 3s so has got me thinking what's next in store. ... 

MrsC hope your on your way to Cov looking foward to hearing how it goes.


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## fifibell

Hey all

Happy birthday Carrie!!
Kjade £200 in fine YIKES!!! But at least your on track with your injections.

We're gearing up for another crack at the ivf lottery next month, this will be my seventh cycle. Jeeze! seven cycles!! never ever would I have thought when I started I'd be going for a seventh time.

Hope everyone else is well.

All the best


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## Angedelight

Hi all

Bippy that's good they could test and you got results. It must make it seem so much more real knowing they were boys and thinking of the futures they should have had. Sending lots of love. 

KJade well done on the injection!! Sorry to hear everything else isn't going so great. Paying out for infertility stuff really dents the old finances, it's so annoying when others things need paying out for as well.

Carrie happy birthday! Hope you're not going to crazy in the 2ww. Are you working?. I always do these days, I'd send myself completely mad on google if I didn't!. 

Hi everyone else.

Well I'm on my way to Coventry for the biopsy. The period has held off thank goodness. Everyone on this train seems to be coughing, snorting or sneezing, I can't bear it!. And I've forgotten my headphones.

I'm so looking forward to seeing those that can make Saturday. I'll be on the wine as transfer seems a million years away at present!!. 

X


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## K jade

fifibell I hope your seventh cycle is the one for you.
I must admit out of all of us on here im the least hardcore , having only done 2 ivf transfers. so I admire all of you who are in a higher figure than me. 
will you be trying anything different this time?

ha well while I was waiting for the tyres to be done I started googling to see if there is any scientific backing in the 'bad things happening in 3s'
it turned out its a very commonly searched question on google along with: 
_why do bad things always happen to me ?  and 
why do bad things always happen to good people ?_
always nice to know your not alone and many others have the same ponderings when things go belly up


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## Angedelight

Yes Kjade I'm thinking 'why do bad things always happen to me?'
Prof B was great, really enjoyed talking to him. Loved his take on immune treatments/ blood NKs/ Dr Gorgy/ ARGC. Felt quite heartened. 

Go in for biopsy. Have scan. 'You have a large cyst' says the Dr. I say I quite often get them but they always go. Not this one, it's 6cm in diameter, I need to see the GP ASAP and get a referral to a gynae and will need a lap and keyhole surgery to remove it. Apparently ones those size don't go on their own. And it's at risk of twisting and causing torsion which cuts off blood to the ovary. FML. And the biopsy hurt like hell then I came out, burst into tears and am now sat on a bus as stupid uber were going to take ages to get here. Oh and they said that waiting times for laps in their hospital are 6 months.

Always something to kick you back down!!!. So yes, 'why do bad things always happen to me?!'.

X


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## bippy11

oh no Mrs C, Im so sorry, what a horrible set-back for you   You were hoping to get going with another cycle after this biopsy right? 6 months sounds a ridiculous waiting time! hopefully your local hospital will have a shorter wait. I don't know what private would cost, probably a lot, but worth finding out. big hugs   

Carrie - happy birthday!!! Glad you had a lovely day, although I imagine celebrations might have been somewhat restricted due to you being in 2ww! Hope you are managing to stay sane, how are you coping with it? Analysing every tiny twinge or lack of twinges? When is OTD? wishing so much that you will get your BFP.   xxx

Kjade sorry to hear about your financial worries, but great that you have got started on your injections. x

Fifi, really hope number seven will be it for you! I know, it's crazy with so many rounds, we'll be starting number 6 (IVF), number 12 if you include the ovulation induction rounds! And even more if you count all the abandoned and mock cycles over the years! Madness, but just not ready to give up on this and move on yet. x


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## Carrie88

OH kjade nooooo! That’s so much money and so frustrating when you know what you’d rather spend that money on, argh you defi deserve some good luck soon xx

Fifibell - not long till you’re cycling again. Jesus 7th time though? You are a warrior but we have your back and here to support you through it xx 

MrsC - yes I’m in work. I went back to work the next day and have kept super busy. Ohmygod what? You didn’t have that after transfer so it’s developed since then? How do they know it won’t go away by itself? Oh balls bud  that wait is so long but private lap is so expensive big hugs that is truly crap xx 

Bippy - I’m coping fine. Not even had 1 cramp though so I don’t think it’s worked, I’ll find out on Thursday when I have my beta. Thanks lovely xxx


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## K jade

No oooooo MrsC.  OK breathe.  Don't lose heart .
Can your GP fast track you through when u explain your fertility history and the emotional impact on your mental health of a lengthy wait ( also that your concerned you don't have time to waste , she doesn't need to know your using DE)
Or Is there an option  for self referral  to your gyaen department or just paying for initial consultation thus reducing the wait?
I understand u not wanting to wait 6 months and I understand u not wanting to spend 4 grand so there has to be another way
Other option is miteria hospital. Do they do it?

Yes it's official. Bad things definitely come in 3s. ANOTHER parking fine on our doorstep when we came home. 
We're now complaining to the council as this is unacceptable.


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## Carrie88

I was gonna mention mitera - they do a lap. Think it's about £2500-£3000 which is still a lot though.
Ohymgod kjade what?? 
For the same bus lane? 

Google getting out of them and there's loads of ways you can get out of them like if the signing isn't obvious etc xx


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## Angedelight

I've emailed Penny so will see what she says. DH helpfully said when I got home 'it just feels like it's not meant to be for us'. Yeah, thanks for that.

KJade when we did a cycle at LWC in Cardiff we had a bus lane fine come through and successfully appealed it as it was poorly marked and didn't fully cross it. 

X


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## Carrie88

Oh ladies I think we all need some shots on Saturday!! Xx


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## K jade

I'm calling the council as soon as they open at half 8.
Horrible nights sleep just so angry at what thrve done .
3 final demands for traffic offences we were never sent 1 letter about . Threatening to send bailiffs. 
Fines total about 450. 
I will be doing formal complaint and also complaining to mp 

Oh Mrs c tell him to shut up. There's no such thing as meant to be or not meant to be. 
We have ourselves only and the power of our actions. No ghost has made a decision about whether we get a child or not . Men !!!!

Very angry right now. Some poor council worker is going to be on the end of it in about 10 minutes.  

Flipping heck last time I had a shot was 3 yrs ago ha!!!


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## apples2014

Hi 

Aw Carrie I hope you don’t need the shots and it’s worked babes. Thinking of you xx

Bippy I’m really so sorry. I am sure you must be really hurting. So much love xxx

Northern hi honey hope you are good xx

Mrs C cysts are such pain in the bums what a shock that you really did not need and nothing like a nice positive comment from partner, not! My DH is known to come out with negative clangers every now and then it’s just itsball so frustrating isn’t it! I’m really sorry. I am glad you had a good chat with Prof B I found him to be so helpful. Good luck. What will you do now? See GP? 

Fifi hope you feeling okay about trying again in next month, Aley are you okay? How did your follow up go? How are you both doing? Xxx

Kjade I feel sorry for them too down reg drugs used to make me extra fiesty ha ha but seriously kidding aside that’s a lot of 💩 you dealing with there. Hope you can get it sorted xx

Well here I am day 30 of this cycle and no blinking period! Why

We spend years not wanting them when we have plucked up the courage to go for it ! Where is it? 
This will be ET number ding ding 11! 
And I’ve purposely taken so much time out to get my head into gear and I’m ready to go against my consultant and do natural for the 6th try of donated embryos and where is the blinking period? 

My cycles have been back to normal the last couple of months since blob gate so !!!!

Anyway I realise it’s very boring to read about Apples moaning there is no period! 

I’m chasing for my Coventry results and it’s just 4 weeks since had biopsy so hopefully soon. 

I did reach out to Lotus medicas but it wasn’t really great if I’m honest. Had about a 45 min what’s app call but he spent quite some time talking about sperm and egg and infections. We’ve had 5 tries of donated embryos with different donors each time so we can look at sperm or egg 
But he suggested the two hysto’s I had (at serum and at Gennet city in London) might not be thorough enough and how do I know I have not got leaking tubes? I explained that both hysto’s were really clear and in fact the second one I had the consultant was why are you here? So I feel he’s barking up the wrong tree there. 

Then he said that even though I’ve had immunes blood tests for NK cells etc he wanted to read the results as they believe other clinics don’t understand the results properly sometimes. I explained I saw the immunology consultant at Gennet who is a specialist and he was like well let’s see ! 
Then we discussed infections but I had all that at serum so guess what? He suggested that might need re looking at! Me and DH was a bit like erm we’ve spent a lot of money with these highly rated clinics we would be very concerned if this many mistakes across various clinics occurred. 

I then asked about tests for missing KIR and the treatment for that as I explained actually when I have the Coventry biopsy and I’m not on the medicated cycle (taking the oestrogen ) I’m receptive when I have a mock cucke with the oestrogen pills I’m NOT receptive and I’ve had 3 chemicals out of 5 donor embies cycles! 

He said that was interesting and he would ask his colleague but they can test for KIR receptors missing but the research about treatment for that is very conflicting and it’s not a case of taking neouphen (I’m in a hurry and this is spelt completely wrong) I said well could I have that blood test and he said possibly but wasn’t sure it was that ! 

In short we felt quite unconfident after chatting with him but he asked me to send my Immunes blood test results and I sent the most recent Coventry biopsy results. He said he would have a look and give me some advice about what I do and don’t need. So I thought oh okay will send it! 

Sent it the same day! Heard nothing for 10 days so I wasn’t even going to chase. I just feel perhaps after 10 transfers. Okay 5 were our mega challenged eggs and swimmers, but 5 of young proven donors embryo adoption and 3 chemicals later I’m obviously a bit of a head   Case to look at! 

But anyway I chased and I’m a bit annoyed if I’m honest. His reply was sorry slow reply I spoke to my colleague and we both decided that we need discuss it all again and it’s 100 euros. 

I’m broke! But in the grand scheme of things 100 euros isn’t terrible ( I don’t know how you guys fund your ivf treatment and I know it’s so personal but I don’t midn sharing that parents helped us in the first couple of years that’s how we afforded CRGH and Serum but bank of parents is over so I interest free balance transfer credit card deals and we pay off a chunk every month so we doing it all interest free but it’s still erm a lot of cash). So anyway decided it’s a no. 

Sorry this is so long! I gotta go work! 

Hope you all have good days. 

Love Apples xxxx

Apologies for typos x


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## K jade

apples wha!! that sounds like some whacky off the wall advice you have been getting there. 
im all for new treatments and new developments but I think LM are on their own. 
im suspicious of Drs and organisations who question results that are certified and conclusive  as I feel its their way of making money out of you.  you do not need another hysto if you have had 2 already. you do not need to re look at your hidden infections if you've had the test for them already. its done. they're just going over old ground. 
braverman in America is the same , he once told a lady she definitely had endometriosis even though shed already had a lap that proved  she didn't. 
he said the lap didn't pick it up she should have another one. With him . 
with stuff like that you cant help thinking there are a few cowboys in this business.


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## Pognut

MrsC, we were in the same boat as you - long wait to see the NHS gynae consultant then another wait to the lap - and our lovely GP's secretary told us that we could pay for the first meeting with a consultant who would then refer us for a lap (if we needed one) on the NHS. It worked really well and I had the lap 4 months later (would have been sooner had drs not been off sick). Hope it worls out for you.

Er - I hesitate to ask, as I'm at ARGC and I'm not sure I want to hear it, but what what does Prof Brosens say about blood NKs/ARGC/Dr Georgy? Nothing good, by the sounds of it? I SO wish this was *in some small way* even slightly less complicated...


----------



## K jade

I saw him and he didn’t say anything specific to me  but I know he’s said to previous patients its bullsh!t
Fine but then I don’t know how he can explain argc success rates which are above and beyond. 
Maybe he has an answer. 
I think a lot of these Docs are real egos and they all want to find the answer themselves and be the one to hold the crown, hence why they wont work in partnership with each other and slate each others work and research . 
I think this uNK thing is his baby and he's run with it, but to me it alone is just not holistic enough and doesn't look at the bigger pic
xx


----------



## Pognut

I'm sure you're right that there is a LOT of ego flying about here too, KJade... It's so difficult to know what the best thing to do is, isn't it. We're about to do the Coventry biopsy despite ARGC saying they don't think you need to look at uterine NKs (though they have said they will "look at" the results). Then again, Georgy does both! So what does that suggest? 

Is there any way of knowing what the success rate for people following the Coventry protocol is? Plus, what do they suggest you do after a BFP, to avoid your immunes causing a miscarriage? one of the things I like about ARGC is that they keep a really close eye on things until the baby's safe. This may be - well, almost certainly is - because 5 years of IVF has made me a neurotic bag of nerves...


----------



## K jade

I think the study is still on going with quenby and the results haven't been collated and analysed fully , but I could be wrong. They also are now saying that 1 biopsy isn't enough and uNKs change monthly so not sure what that means for the majority of participants who only took 1 biopsy .
It's a good peice if information to have. I'm glad I did biopsy and bloods 
But I feel it's one test of many. It may not give a conclusive answer to implantation failure  on its own.

The problem is that no 2 women have the same combo of immune issues , there are an infinite amount of variables. So I cannot see how 'above board' clinical trials will ever be a possibility or reality. Each woman has their own morse code. And of course this is why the likes of people like us  continue to go to the 'dark side' of argc, gorgy etc. Cause as much as the good guys criticise  them, they just can't argue with the fact they get results xx


----------



## Angedelight

He also slated Dr Beer- said he'd been struck off! After I read Dr Beers book I was gutted he was no longer around, I'd have loved him to have hand held me through treatment, he sounded so caring and compassionate.

Pognut-Like KJade said, every Dr who does their own research is all about that research. o think when you get to our stage you just want to leave no stone unturned. Also like KJade says ARGC have top results so they're obviously into something. How are you finding it there?. It sounds like such a hardcore bootcamp- but if it works who cares?!. I'm just getting all the available info- I'll go see Dr Gorgy once I have it all as like you say he considers both means of testing NKC's. Good to hear your lap referral was quick. I've already stalked the Dr online that does private consultations at The Spire but then has an NHS post too and would be the one I'd be referred to. My consultant friend also suggested doing what you said about a private consult but NHS referral.

Apples that Locus Medicus appointment sounds dreadful! I've used them for tests but I wouldn't bother going back after that. It sounds like you've had all the tests pretty much, could you scrape together the cash for a Dr Gorgy appointment?. At least Coventry might shed some light. Same as you- had some help from family but then felt so bad after it failed, interest free credit cards, rinsing our equity- honestly the amount of home improvements the mortgage company think we've invested in 😂 and I work lots of extra shifts to keep on top of it all. I keep a vague record of what we have spent but it scares me so I don't look at it!.

Carrie- sending all the positive vibes!!

KJade- have you got it sorted with the fines?? Did you have a rage at someone?!.

Penny said my cyst definetely needs removing. Serum can do it for a bargain €4500 with a hysto and implantation cuts too!. Definetely cannot find that cash. Got a GP appt Thursday afternoon. It's with a male Dr but he's a regular Dr not a locum so at least will know onward referral process. I shouldn't think crying willl be too difficult so hopefully I'll get what I want and can impress that time is really not on my side. 

Off out for dinner and drinks tonight, exactly what is needed!!

X


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade - I don't blame you for the rant to the council. £450 is a joke!! What did they say? Xx

Apples - oh my I would of felt so disheartened after that appointment and I would really ignore most of it. Any chance you can go see Gorgy? Xx

MrsC - good luck for your doctors app tomorrow, cry and cry!! That will get you somewhere.

It's funny you've mentioned money cos I went out for a Chinese yesterday and marks worked out since 2015 we've spent about £17,000.
He is not happy.


----------



## K jade

MrsC  LOL Prof B is funny!  hes a nice guy i did like him but hes rather competitive. 
ive never heard of Dr Beers being struck off that's news to me. although that doesn't mean he did anything wrong, sadly there's so much corruption on the inside. I wander if  medical governing bodies just didn't like his ideas as they were too radical and wanted him gone?

As for money its one of the hardest things of all this. Balance transfer credit cards are a lifesaver. mum and dad helped too, and im paying them back monthly. 
as you all know ive largely kept the cost of my immune tx from DH and used my personal money. we put 2 thirds of our income into a joint and then keep a third for our own stuff like clothes and meeting friends.  it has its problems  (like him finding out!) but I knew he just wouldn't understand the gamble  of it all .  if all my NHS stuff fails ill  save on my own from scratch and try somewhere like serum. again, I wont share the cost with DH.  Not everyone's cup of tea I accept but I feel like we don't get bogged down this way. 


OK well good news on the parking fines. DH had a word and they accepted they were at  fault as they had sent all the letters to our old address. 
so that's a relief. just annoyed as when I tired to reason with them they wouldn't have it, but as soon as he phones up they retract the whole thing! 

xx


----------



## bippy11

Carrie just to wish you good luck for tomorrow. Im so hoping and wishing you will get good news!   xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Thank you bippy xxxx

Kjade - I'm so glad the council admitted they were at fault, although strange they sent them to your old address? Really? Everyday sexism I tell ya!! Xx


----------



## Viv123

Helloo all, I hope you don't mind me joining you I have found these boards so supportive and so much info to be learnt and you are all inspirational going through this long, sometimes difficult journey.  Soo after 2 unsuccessful cycles at Argc, one without immunes, one with, I am now with Dr Gorgy for immunes and will cycle with ARGC hopefully in May, so currently in immune testing/ crazy treatment limbo land. Time seems to be going sooo slow! I wanted to ask you ladies who have had experience of the uterine biopsy as I know little about it....Dr G mentioned it, but I have no idea when this will take place? Is it the month before you start cycling? 

Big hugs and lotsa buby dust! xo


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## K jade

Hi viv welcome. 
Do you mean the scratch?
If so then yes that's usually done on cd21 before you start stims. Its to increase uterine inflamation which may help implantation. 
however  If it's the biopsy to test for nk's cells in your lining  then that also needs to be done around cd21 time. But you won't necessarily do an ivf cycle straight after that as you would need to wait to see what the results show. 
What immune tests have u had so far ?

Carrie best of luck for today xx


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## Viv123

Thank you K jade so much! I meant the uterine biopsy but very interesting on the scratch too... I know ARGC want to do a hysteroscopy on day 2/3 of stimms, so not sure if it would be done then, I wld def prefer the month before. 
Ok thats good to know about the biopsy being day 21 too. I was told that when I next saw Dr G we would discuss..
Ive had the usual Chicago immunes as well as further genetic tests, DQ Alpha, & LAD.  I have both elevated cytokines and Nk cells, have taken my 2nd jab of humira, and me and hubbie are on antibiotics right now for an infection that wasn't picked up before. Its soo overwhelming all these extra tests and sooo overwhelming re, the ££! I saw you mentioned keeping part of the cost from you DH. I'm in the same position, I think he would have a coronary if he found out as would my family who don't know about this.
Where about's are you in your treatment? 
Carrie, saw it is your OTD today! Lots of positive vibes to you! xo


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## K jade

hahaha im so glad im not the only one on that front. 
a coronary is precisely what  what would happen if my dh found out too!
I also did humira (although  we did share the cost on that one) and it brought my tnfa down. completely fixed my migraines too. 
it has had a few side effects but nothing awful.
im currently DRing and will start stims next  fri all being well. 
I'm then going to be using pred, clexane and 1 intralipid. my NKs are not high. But the killing power is . 
oh wow ive never heard of a hysto being done during a cycle but I don't know a lot about argc myself. With the biopsy you may have to do that a few months before cycling so that the results can come back. 
do you know what other immune meds DrG has planned for you?
xx


----------



## Viv123

I'm the same on the humira... I had read lots of horror stories, but the first time, a few rashes..but this time, nothing. It brought my TNFa right down in OCT, but then I didn't cycle for two months after that and by the time I started cycling it had shot back up to 42! So I'm interested to see what Dr G will do in the interim to keep my TNFa down. I know re. the hysto! I asked argc if i could do the hysteroscopy the month before... i might ask them again. How long do the biopsy results take to come back? I will ask the gals at Dr G's when I go in about when this will be scheduled...Did you have additional tests with Dr G? DQ Alpha? 
The only thing planned in at the moment, is pooled LIT  and a humira retest. At ARGC i did IVIG as well as steroids, but then again my first cycle where I had no immune drugs at all, I had a teeny HCG level before it tapered off... this time nothing at all sadly. I don't know whether my uterus is totally affected by all the stim drugs and maybe a FET would be better for me, sooo many variables and what if's! Exciting you are starting next week hopefully! Where are you cycling? xo


----------



## bippy11

oh Carrie, I've been thinking of you all day, really hoping you've got good news! x

Hi Viv123, welcome x


----------



## Carrie88

It's another negative xx


----------



## bippy11

Im so so sorry Carrie   I know you must feel devastated, I hope you and Mark are looking after each other. Sending you big hugs and strength xxx


----------



## rubyring

Hi everyone, can I join you all? I've been reading for a while but not posting. I think I qualify   


First of all, so sorry to hear your news Carrie. Take care of yourselves.


My story is a bit different as most of my cycles have been DE, because I'm old  
I met my DH late, at 38, we got married when I was 41. So I didn't get to IVF until 42, which basically means it won't work as far as I can see. (I hope I'm not offending anyone.....)
At 42 they say chance of success is 10% - I find hard to believe it's that high. But even that means chances of failure are 90%! But then I managed to be in the tiny % and get a severe pelvic infection. I was so ill. So that put me back a few years.


In a way the move to DE was easier for me (my DH isn't that happy about DE) as I'm older, and anyway after my illness and surgeries I couldn't have had another egg collection. 


There is a DE multi cyclers thread but that's gone quiet. Most people seem to succeed with DE 1st or 2nd try, my MC consultant agrees. I really don't know why I'm so unlucky with all this. I'm sure all of you can relate to that!


Anyway I thought I'd say hello as this is one of the few places on FF that I feel I fit in with my history.
Best wishes to all


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## apples2014

Hi to the newbies 

Sorry this is a read and run as I’m packing for Amsterdam. 

Carrie I’m really gutted and I’m so sorry sweetheart every time I’ve refreshed today I’ve been like - please have worked for them, please have worked for them. 

I’m really so sad for you both. 
It’s so 💩 words we can say on here. 

Take extra special care of yourselves. 
So much love
Apples xxx


----------



## K jade

Viv that's a shame the humira effect didn't last for u. 
I've cut out diary and gluten in a (desperate) attempt to get my inflammation down naturally. THATs fun  
Also doing high dose omega 3
I'm lucky enough to have a generous nhs entitlement so still with my local hospital for actual ivf. Just immunes with dr G.
I didn't do dq alpha as we use donor sperm and I've gone through a fair few donors . LAD I never really saw the point as never been pregnant but I don't think I fully understand that 1. 
As for the biopsy i had it with professor quenby.  Dr G does a slightly different one. My results with quenby took 4 weeks but I've a feeling doc G will be quicker. 

Rubyring welcome sorry for your long exhausting  journey. Im using ds due severe MFI and it's utterly soul destroying when u make the tough decision to a  use a donor and still it fails. Some of us on here are using DE and d embies so your not alone 

Carrie I kno we've spoken but I couldn't not comment and send a     or three .


----------



## Viv123

Hello all! Thanks Bippyxo
Hey Rubyring, Im a newbie too!
K Jade, yes i saw an amaze nutritionist Mel Brown who added a whole array of supplements and i cut out gluten and dairy and sugar to boot! I am having the odd mozzarella cheese now and again  I was wondering if stress affected my TNF levels.. me and hubbie were going thru a rough patch at the time..maybe.  Thats good with the NHS and great you can cycle in tandem with Dr G! Yes LAD I'm not a 100% on... a higher level of LAD tricks the body you have been pregnant before and apparently its helpful with a DQ ALPHA match, acts like a vaccine and makes you immune to an aggressive NK response....something like that, my head spins with it all. Thank you for the biopsy headsup. 

Carrie, Im soo sorry  It jus truly sux. Big hugs to you.xox


----------



## K jade

viv ive heard of mel brown. wow you've been very disciplined. 
oh that explains LAD/LIT very well.  Dr G is keen on it. its very rare from what I gather and he is the only one in UK  who does it. I don't even think its done in America but strangely they do it in mexico. 
locus medicus are really keen on it, but I wouldn't recommend them after apples bizarre phone call with them the other day. as for stress affecting tnfa  apparently it can but im not sure how much to be honest. maybe a couple of points but I think high tnfa is most likely to come from systemic inflammation due to a physiological problem. 

apples have a great time in Amsterdam!

xx


----------



## Viv123

Yes the whole LIT/ LAD thing is quite controversial. Im very nervous of the pooled LIT which is blood donors asides from my other half. Will see if it works I guess. I think you are right yes re. the inflammation in the body. Do you think being ill could affect TNF too? Like a very severe cold or flu? Its so fascinating and frustrating all at the same time this immunes business!Xo

Hello to everyone else. xo


----------



## bippy11

Hi ladies, happy Friday! 

Rubyring welcome. Im sorry to hear about your difficult journey. 

Carrie, thinking of you hun xxx really hoping to still see you tomorrow x 

Speaking of tomorrow.. where are we going?? If you ladies have already agreed a place on the popular W app, please would you let me know where so I can meet you! I don't know if I should post my number on here, but Mrs C has it or if one of you sees this, let me know and I will DM you my number so you can text me if that's ok.. I have visions of being stranded at the station not knowing where to go to find you! Ideally I need to know before I set off because I don't have maps / internet on my basic phone.. Can't wait to meet you all, it's gonna be the best blind date!  

Rubyring and Viv, bit last minute, but some of us are meeting up in Birmingham tomorrow for lunch and you'd be welcome to join us if you would like x


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## bippy11

ok I know where Im going - thank you kjade!   xxx


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## Carrie88

Bippy - yes im still coming  looking forward to seeing you later xx 

Viv - why are you doing pooled lit? We gave up on it. £3000 later and it didn't even improve xx


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## Viv123

Hello all! Bippy, Thankyou soo soo much for the invite, I would have loved to have come and meet you all but I have a well-being workshop I have tickets for... I figured I need all the well-being I can get) but let me know for next time! Xx
Carrie, so hubbie is away at the moment and I wanted to get started sooner hence starting with Pooled... also me and hubbie have a 50% DQ match so partner LiT hypothetically won’t be as affective, but I get the logic in having his too...it does worry me at the ££.  will see. Did you have pooled and partner? Hope you are doing ok too xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Yes Viv you'll defo have to come to the next one xx

Ahh I see. That makes total sense. When are you going in? We did 3 paternal and then he reccomended the pooled and we said no. 
Too much money and not enough current evidence for it, dr Gorgy was fine with it actually x


----------



## Viv123

Awww for sure yes! Hope you ladies had a lovely time today
I’m in for pooled this Thursday! 
Hugs to all xxx


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## K jade

Yes viv you'll have to come to the next 1

We r hoping for  may

I'm feeling bad today girls . It's  the burselin 
Awful palpitations,  shivers ando anxiety  
Not sure whether to lie in bed or try and busy myself


----------



## fifibell

Sorry to hear you are feeling unwell kjade.

Make sure to drink lots of water and maybe if you're feeling up to it go for gentle walk sometimes light exercise and fresh air can help. X


----------



## Northern

Sorry you’re not so good kjade - go easy on yourself maybe a bath or something might help? 

I’m also feeling down today - another childless mother’s day and close friend has just chosen it as the perfect day for a pregnancy announcement   had my suspicions with her but had convinced myself she prob wasn’t and it was just pregdar in overdrive. Ffs 

Xxx


----------



## K jade

I'm gonna have a bath
Have been out for 2 hrs this morning with the dog
Feeling a bit better but weirdly the worst time for anxiety for me is mid - late afternoon 

Northern no oooooo oooooo! ! Oh gosh dare I ask how she did it? Xx


----------



## Northern

Look after yourself kjade at least it’s Sunday and you can have some time to yourself and no work xx

Ha well it’s ironic really - I’ve deliberatly stayed off fbook today to avoid all the Mother’s Day pics, but she sent us a picture on fbook messenger  of one of those light box things with a ‘baby due’ message - could have been worse, at least it wasn’t a scan pic - weirdly I knew what was coming before I even opened the message


----------



## bippy11

Hi ladies, it was so lovely to meet you yesterday  And those of you who didn't make it - you'll have to come next time! 

Kjade hope you're feeling a bit better, did the bath help? x

Northern that's not what you need, especially today! Is it a friend you see often? It's so hard when it's close friends because it makes it difficult to see them. I've done the same as you and just tried to ignore the whole mothers day thing. Thanks for getting me to the station yesterday, Im sure I would have got lost and missed my train without you  

We did trigger shot last night, so I should ovulate tomorrow morning and will hopefully get booked in for Coventry biopsy. Finally something is going to happen!


----------



## K jade

Oh jeez nothing like opening a message like that to knock the wind right out your sails 
I don't know if your friend is or isn't aware of your sitch  but what's wrong with a simple text/ phone call  saying btw  I'm pregnant. ...clearly it doesn't seem to be the done thing these days . Make sure u look after yourself hun. Lots of you time  

Bippy not yet but hot water is going on as soon and in laws make an exit  . They're here now but haven't given her present yet. 

Oh god just had feedback from MIL on the big mothers day meal which DH and I apparently should have come along to as it was ' so much fun' . It consisted of MIL, SIL and SILs  MIL. If that makes sense  . As well as the children and husbands . 
Apparently one of the children was badly behaved however and threw a tantrum in the restaurant which I really  liked in my own sick way 
Xx


----------



## Angedelight

Hi ladies 

Hope everyone is managing today. I worked this morning and then my parents came for a roast at ours so that was nice. 

It was so lovely to meet some of you yesterday, such a boost to chat to you all. In all fairness you know more about me than my real life friends! It was so lovely to put faces to names and it was so funny how it felt like we had known each other for ages. 

Hi viv and Ruby. Sorry you find yourselves here but it's a fab thread. Hope to meet you face to face at our next meet up- May we said. 

Lots of love 

X


----------



## Carrie88

Hello ladies!! 
Sorry I've not been on, I've avoided social media today. God it's felt like Christmas all over again. I hate how society and social media makes me feel today, I should be grateful I have a mum to spend today with, not ungrateful I'm not one. Infertility sucks man!! 

Kjade - sorry to hear you're feeling poo. Does that normally happen when you're on buserlin? I'm glad you didn't go to that meal....wise choice. How you feeling now? Xx

Northern - Ohmygood what?? Ffs. How cliche. Is this a friend who knows what you're going through or not? Big hugs and pour yourself a big glass of wine. I love the online support I have but man I wish I could be living in the 80's where people got pregnant and no social media was around xx

bippy - fingers crossed for ovulation so you can get that biopsy booked in xx

MrsC - hope work was ok and you enjoyed that roast!! 

I am defo up for may meet although I'm only free the last weekend of May cos of the way our cruise falls...xx


----------



## Viv123

Hello everyone, just wanted to say a hello and i hope all of you have been doing ok today. xox

A friend of mine also just announced on ** that she is due in April! It was a journey for her too though which I didn't realise. 

Have literally just read the Dr Ledee thread on FF in its entirety as many women rave about her immune protocol.. I am a women obsessed! Its amazing how much we can learn from this forum and the wonderful support too when going through the most difficult times. 

Hugs to all.xxx


----------



## K jade

Feeling better but  
It's gone completely  awol  
Anyone done long protocol before? 
What happens if I don't get a bleed before baseline on Friday? 
Omg they better not cancel me
That'll be three in a row if they do  

Viv yes dr leedee is supposed to be very good. But I hear she can be quite hard to get an appointment with .plus I think her recommendations are quite basic too such as scratch and hcg injections. Things people have likely already tried. 

Bippy hope last night's trigger went well. I hate triggering. Makes me sick as a dog 

Xx


----------



## bippy11

kjade what do you mean it's gone awol? I did long protocol but its so many years ago I cant really remember the details.. can you call the hospital and check? Surely if you haven't had a bleed by Friday they can just postpone the baseline a bit? Glad you're feeling better. 

viv how was your well-being workshop?? Did you learn something? These things can be a bit hit and miss, hope it was good. 

Im booked in for biopsy in Coventry next Monday. Relieved it's finally happening! I don't think the trigger made me feel too bad kjade, but my ovaries have felt quite 'heavy' and uncomfortable, similar (but milder) than before egg collection. I've been stimming for about 3 weeks now to ovulate, so that's probably why. Itll be quite nice to have a break from injections for a couple of weeks now.  
And Ive got a smear test today (they said that's ok at Coventry). Its a different nurse than last time I went, so lets hope this one doesnt start advising me about relaxing and how to have sex...


----------



## bippy11

it was the same nurse again.. she was training someone else, so didn't say much to me, until when I was just about to leave.. then she promised me I would have my baby - twins - before the end of the year. (!!!) So I took a deep breath and told her that she shouldn't say things like that to people who have been having treatment for a long time because it can be very upsetting. She said ok, she was only trying to liven me up. At that point I just left, but hopefully she got the message.


----------



## K jade

Bippy WTF?
isn't that REALLY INAPPROPRIATE seeing as u just lost twins? 
Well done on telling her straight 
That woman should  be struck off though tbh

Good news on coventry!

Can they do that? Postponed baseline I mean? Or is long protocol set in stone and u can't DR longer than 2 weeks? I'm completely clueless about it


----------



## Viv123

Bippy! Aww i hope you are ok hun. It sooo wasn't thoughtful of the nurse to say  glad you said something to her! Hope the smear went ok. Triggers always make me super nervous!
So the workshop was interesting, very chilled, lots of yoga and reiki..there was a workshop on EFT Tapping which i have heard of recently  Its like non invasive acupuncture..my friend sent me this vid as I was stressing about all the £££ we are spending on all this: 



If anything it made me chuckle doing it! Lets see if vast sums of £££ come my way!

K Jade, I hope AF comes for you... i have never been on a long protocol so not sure how it all works but crossing everything you get to start! Yes I agree about Dr Ledee..what I find interesting is that in a lot of cases the uterine biopsies come back as low inflammation, where the bloods can be high NK..in these cases she says No to steroids. I am very interested to see what my biopsy results will be! eeeek

Huge hugs to all.xxx


----------



## Northern

Omg Bippy what on earth made her think that was an appropriate thing to say!!! Well done on calling her out - it's not good that she's also training others and they will see her saying things like that - good for the student to hear you correct her, may make them think twice about the little throwaway comments.  And "just trying to liven you up" what on earth is wrong with her?!  Glad you're booked in for the biopsy though. 

Kjade glad you're feeling a bit better today.  I've never done long protocol sorry - maybe call the clinic and just find out what they would do, hopefully they'll be able to reassure you and it won't mean another cancelled cycle! 

Viv and Rubyring welcome   sorry you both find yourselves here but this is such a supportive thread - it was lovely to meet some of the ladies on Saturday - hopefully you'll be able to come along to the next one.  The wellbeing workshop sounds lovely, I love yoga but never make time to go to any classes really.  Never heard of EFT Tapping, will have a little read about it!

Apples hope you had a lovely weekend in Amsterdam xx

I'm feeling a bit better today - even though I saw it coming it knocked me back a bit yesterday.  I'm well practiced now though - went straight to the shop for a bottle of wine and chocolate, then out for a bit of a walk, and played some loud music in the car this morning lol.  It's not a friend I see too often fortunately, but she's in my closest group of friends so it's a bit closer to home than I would like, not looking forward to the next time I have to see her but I'm sure I'll find the mindset for it when it comes to it.


----------



## bippy11

haha, I knew I could count on you ladies to be outraged with me   yeah I think it was totally inappropriate. I think she's just one of these people who speaks without thinking. Also - by the end of the year?? Maybe I should have explained to her that 3 + 9 is 12.. I mean I would have to get pregnant more or less now and she has no idea about my situation or treatment plan! Northern I thought that too - good for the newbie to be aware of that, so Im glad I said something this time. 

Im glad you're feeling a bit better Northern, it sounds like a good reaction to me - wine, chocolate, walking and loud music!   Its difficult when its someone in your close friendship group. At least you have a bit of time to adjust and can be prepared when you next see her. xxx

kjade, Im sorry, I don't know enough about long protocol to be of any help to you with this - if it was me I would call the clinic - they may be able to put you at ease and explain what will happen. 

viv the workshop sounds interesting. Yoga and meditation helps me a lot. I have to say, Im a bit dubious about that tapping thing.. let me know if it works for you and you suddenly become rich!   x


----------



## Viv123

Thank you Northern! Glad you are feeling a bit better too
Bippy.. no luck so far on the tapping.. the opposite in fact, my company has been told to cease trading until we get additional funds in from our investors and still not been paid for last month! EEEEk   sods law!!XX


----------



## wibble-wobble

Sorry to butt in on your chat just wanted to say I did long protocol on my cycle. It was the standard way my clinic approached most cycles

I was on buserelin (horrible ****) for a little over 3 weeks before baseline. Some women had scans before they'd had a bleed on it and were told they were good to go without it and others were sent away for an extra week of more buserelin in the hope it would thin their lining down given extra time.

From what I've read there isn't a time limit to it, some women just respond quicker to it than others


----------



## Northern

Carrie hope your follow up is useful today - let us know how you get on xx


----------



## K jade

Thanks wibble wobble that's really helpful . At least it's not the end of the world then if I don't get a bleed by Friday.  
Burselin is absolutely horrid . I've done it before but mixed with stims. Now I'm on it straight  and at a higher dose. 
It's making me tired nervous and psychotic all at the same time! 

Carrie best of luck for today please keep us posted 

Bippy Urgh god can u complain about that woman. I kno u have better things to do but maybe just some polite feedback to your GP practice  manager about her behaviour?  U could send an email. I think her senior really should be taking her to one side and having  a word. People make formal complaints about alot less u know 

Burselin psychosis has fully kicked in. This morning dh thought it would be funny to wake me up by tickling me. So I punched him. Let's hope I can get through today without either having a meltdown  or nodding off at my desk


----------



## Northern

kjade I literally laughed out loud at that!  That'll teach him haha    You poor thing though, it does sound pretty horrible!  Give yourself an easy day at work if you can xx


----------



## bippy11

Me too, totally made me laugh, haha!   Hopefully he can excuse the punches and understand it's the burselin's fault! Hope you get through the day, sounds like horrible side-effects hun x

Carrie I hope your appointment goes well and can help you with moving forward and planning next steps. 

Im feeling completely wiped out today. I woke up in the middle of the night in pain and feeling nauseous, similar to how Ive felt after egg collections. Pain was pretty bad, had me doubled up and kept me a awake for a while. Im a bit confused because the way I've felt, it's as if I've overstimulated in the same way as I did after my ECs, but only 2 follicles got big this time (with ECs there were around 30). Maybe my body is just getting fed up with all the drugs.


----------



## K jade

bippy you feeling any better today?
I know what you mean I often think my body is just done with this ttc malarkey and all the drugs and injections that go with it

panic over 
af is here so here I go Friday , lets hope no nasty surprises and I can get going with stimming


----------



## fifibell

Hey all.

Carrie- Hope your follow up was okay.
Bippy- Hope your feeling better today
Kjade- glad to hear af has arrived!
Hope everyone else is well.

We are having to pay some unexpected bils as we had to get a few things fixed around the house. Not really what we need few weeks before starting treatment but isn't it always the way! Otherwise just ticking along. Looking forward to the Easter break. Take care all x


----------



## apples2014

Wow I’ve missed loads!!! 

Firstly Bippy seriously this nurse !! I remember what she said to you last time as well. Erm hello! Really not okay to say to a lady that has lost twins. I’m so sorry lovely. Seriously wtf!!
I’m really proud you said something, really good for you. 

Coventry I’ve found to be so helpful. In fact I had a nice little chat with Prof Quenby last night she’s so nice but I’m also following up on something else so il also speaking to Prof Brosen’s next week as well! But good luck they are so good there. If they don’t offer you gas and air ask for it! It does hurt a small amount but it’s over so fast it’s really absolutely nothing to worry about at all. I just took a pain killer a little while before I went in and asked for gas and air. But I want to stress don’t worry it’s really okay. 

Big massive hello to everyone else. 

Carrie how are you Hun? When is follow up?
Northern it’s so lovely to hear from you xxx
Kjade glad AF all arrived. 
Big bear hugs to everyone else xxx

I was getting officially worried as no period but it arrived early hours of Sunday whilst I was in Amsterdam (had a lovely time for my friends 40th was really lovely) so it’s all set to Go Go Go for my next try!! 
This is the first try of non medicated FET so let’s hope lining plays ball! 

I’m booked in for Day 9 scan on Monday and another one on day 11. It’s two scans as it’s none medicated so they not just looking at lining but follicle size and when it’s ready I have to trigger it out and then start the progesterone 36 hours after trigger so ET will be roughly two weeks from today eeeek! 

I had a small chat with Prof Q about KIR receptors and visiting Gorgy but she has all my full history and she doesn’t think I need to as my NK cells were at 3.9 percent this time which is pretty good! So no steroids at all this time. Clexane from transfer as I have the MRFTH hetro thingie. 

Can’t book flights or anything until had the go ahead for trigger but .... 

It’s exciting none the less. I’ve been going to yoga and fab ab’s (Guys I’m a size 12 and sometimes a 14 there is nothing fab about my ab’s) and beginning Pilates for a few weeks now since all better from that chest infection so feel in quite a positive head space given how many transfers we’ve had! 
Just got to go for it now ah! 

We’ve chatted though if this doesn’t work we are gonna try again with another non medicated FET and might swop to Reprofit just for a change. Love Penny so much but Serum prices too high so will stick with the C Republic as have so many buddies how have got there now! I just need my pesky uterus to behave! 

I think I said before too if we don’t get there this year it will be time to ...... but not going there now. Just living in the now!!
My friend has sent me some deets of an Irish chap who has a mindful ivf app thingie! Anyone heard of it? I’m gonna give it a go. 

It’s  been so long since I did own egg now that I’ve slipped into some bad eating habits so am trying to be good at the mo. Any advice? I’ve eaten cake and pizza and biscuits lately but I will stop! 

Big hugs to you all. 
Lots of love Apples xxxx

Mrs C did you get to Coventry ? 
How was it? 

Xx


----------



## Viv123

Hello Apples!!  YESSS I have used that Irish chap on the Mindful IVF app. He is greeeeat! One thing I wished he would have daily meditations for the 2ww as thats when I seem to need meditations the most, but a really great friend on FF suggested the zits west meditation in the 2ww too. re. diet.. i saw the nutritionist Mel brown..cut out the glutens and the sweets( other than fruit and  i had the most amazing avocado, cocoa powder and dates desert as treat, no alcohol, but she did say once a week you can have a treat.. today I did just that and had a burger. It was amazing  Did you have a biopsy at Coventry? 

Hello everyone else!XXX


----------



## bippy11

Thank you ladies, Im feeling better, it was just the pain that one night really and then exhausted the next day. Who knows, maybe it had nothing to do with the medication. 

I got my test results - I don't have the MTHFR gene, so can rule that out. 

kjade Im glad your period came - good luck for tomorrow, hope you get the green light for stimms. 

Fifi, unexpected bills are so annoying, not what you need! 

Apples thanks for your tip about gas and air for Coventry - I always been curious to try that!   DH isn't coming though, will it be ok to travel on my own after having it? Im part excited - for the consultation, I think it will be quite nice to talk my details over with another Dr, and part scared - for the biopsy. I've had biopsies before - ERA and hystoroscopy, so Im hoping it won't be too much worse than that... ? (As that was quite painful). 

Exciting that you are getting going with the natural FET soon Apples. It's good to have the plans for what if it doesn't work, but I really hope you won't be needing those plans! 

I tried the irish chap too - I found he talks a bit much, but i might try it again for my upcoming cycle as I didn't give it too much of a go before. Viv let us know what you think of the Zita West one - is that one you have to buy? Even if so, Ill try anything to keep sane during the 2WW!


----------



## apples2014

Hi ya 

Thanks Viv I recall reading a chapter in a book by Mel b a long time ago now (😢) but I will dig it out and refocus myself thanks lovely. 

Bippy I really promise it’s okay to be on your own. My DH came with me but he didn’t come into the biopsy room part. It’s totally the same as ERA but just a little bit longer. They count back from 10, it’s really fine after wards. It’s a bit ouch ouch but it doesn’t hurt at all. My buddy Jenso hoped on train straight afterwards back to London and went to play weekly netball game ha! It’s honestly okay, promise. 

Personally I go get nice Marks and Sparks food when I get off the train at London ha ha 

Should get off here really. Just been to yoga but my train is delayed. 

Lots of love Apples xx


----------



## rubyring

Hi all, just saying hello and thanks for the welcome.
How lovely that you had a meet up! I bet the chatter was non stop   


Bippy - I cannot believe that nurse, she should really know better. Good for you telling her what's what, hopefully she'll think twice in the future


Interesting how lots of FF ladies are going to do the Coventry biopsy, that's one place / test I haven't done! I feel like I've had enough testing   


Best wishes to all


----------



## Viv123

Hello all!!

Apples, Mel really promotes the mediterranean diet and a whole list of supplements... happy to send them to you, just DM me  

Bippy, I used the Irish chap for 1st round and I would listen to him in the morning en-route to the clinic.. and zita west for the 2nd.. Zitas was great and I would always listen to before sleeping at night , very calming. 

I had my LIT today and oh boyyyy that was a shocker  Hubbie started being very matter of fact with me today too talking about how small our chances were...oh and maybe that I should talk to my sister in law about surrogacy (?!). He wasn't saying it in a mean way but still.... sheeeshhhh have some faith that I can do it dammit! Anyway, moan over.

Hugs to all you lovely ladies!XXX


----------



## K jade

Dam lining not thinned!!  
It's 6.3 despite me having a propper bleed. Currently on day 3 but it's tapering off now so I don't see  anymore shedding. 
Fuming. I can take delays but it won't be long before the humira wears off. Then it'll be another dose needed for 800 quid. Ha DPs gonna love that! 
Any techniques for getting it to thin? 
On a positive note ovaries are doing better than expected with an AFC of 16


----------



## bippy11

oh no kjade! What have they said will happen? Will they scan you again tomorrow to see if it's thinned more? I don't have any tips Im afraid - my problem is usually the opposite! Really hope you get to go ahead. 

Viv thanks, if I need some extra zen Ill have a look at the Zita West meditation! Well done for doing the LIT, hopefully that will help - is it something you have done before? 

Thanks Apples for the reassurance. Haha, I don't think Ill be playing netball afterwards! 

Those of you who have done the Coventry biopsy - are you taking part in this Tommys study? We've been filling in the forms for it today - very detailed! 

Also have you all had 2 biopsies done at least 1 month apart? That's what it seems to say that you need, but I don't want to postpone treatment, so I think I will only have 1 for now - but does that then make it pointless? 

Hope you are all having a nice weekend despite the snow blizzard! x


----------



## K jade

Bippy is that the SIMPLANT trial? 
I know they were doing that a year ago so if it's the same 1 it must still be going. Unless they started a new 1 .what does it say in the info? Exciting if they are making headway in new research. 
I didn't do SIMPLANT as  didn't meet the criteria 
No I only had 1 biopsy as uNKs were normal 

Yes back tomorrow for a scan. Been reading up on  loads of old wives tales to try and get lining to shed. Parsley tea and high dose vit c + hot bath have filled my time over the weekend. 
I've bled since scan but 6.3 mm worth. I'm not sure....


----------



## bippy11

Fingers crossed for your scan tomorrow, hopefully it will have thinned enough. Hot bath sounds lovely whether it has helped your lining or not - it's so cold and snowing again! 

It calls it 'Tommy's Net Project' - around improving care for couples suffering miscarriage. It's quite involved, there will be 6 monthly phone calls and they will have access to our medical records and if we have a child they will monitor it's health till age 5. It's not going to benefit us directly, but if we can help in some small way to improve things for people having to face this misery in future, then I am very happy to do that. Filling in the surveys was a bit of slog though, dragging up everything from the past 5.5 years of trying.


----------



## K jade

Ah right yep definitely a different trial then.
They're last clinical trial was on misscarriage  too and it does make me wander if the Quenby centre is just that  little bit more miscarriage focused,  than ivf failure focused. I sort of got that feeling when I went there too which was perhaps why I went looking elsewhere for answers. 
Great news that you've been asked to do it, I would go for it . It sounds like a bit of work but nice to feel like your doing something for the development of new treatement. 

I'm skipping bath tonight,  just feel a bit bathed out..if there's such a thing ...I'm just hoping and praying things are playing ball at tomorrow's scan. Or that they can GIVE me something to sort it out... xx


----------



## bippy11

Kjade really hoping you get good news today hun x

Off to Coventry shortly!


----------



## K jade

I have good news! It's nice and thin!!
I'm good to start. 
Stims a go go tonight ....

Let us know how coventry goes... are u seeing prof B or prof Q? xx


----------



## bippy11

Kjade that's great news, phew!  

Survived Coventry, had gas and air (thanks for the tip Apples) - made it less painful, so it wasn't too bad. Saw prof B, it was interesting to hear his perspective on things and everyone there was really lovely. 

Where is everyone else? Are people chatting on W app instead? Or maybe they are just busy getting on with their lives! Love to everyone, hope you're good x


----------



## K jade

Glad it went well Bippy  . What did u think of prof B?. He's a lovely guy. Jealous u got gas and air! 

Just bit the bullet and called fga and asked them to double check that I DEFINITELY  do start steroids this Friday. .. felt like an idiot ( I HATE asking for things) but it's gotta be done. I don't wanna start popping  them if it turns out there not for me.  
I've also sucessfully re arranged my intralipids too. Was gonna be this Friday but will be next Wednesday now 
xx


----------



## fifibell

Best of luck kjade. 

Hey bippy glad Coventry went ok for you.

I haven't been online much lately been busy sorting out tax bills and other finances plus had family visiting so that's why I've been a bit quite. Starting my pre-treatment meds on Sunday taking an injection called gonapeptyl depot and then steroids. Anyone heard of or taken that injection before?

Hope everyone else is well


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all

I've been reading but not writing, been on nights and they've made me ill. 

Bippy glad you got biopsy done, mine hurt like hell last month so I'll ask for gas and air- thanks apples!. I think their research suggests you have 2 as one month may be high, one month low so by having 2 you can get a better overall picture. Like you I just want to crack on so am doing them back to back. Currently using ov sticks now. Although the stupid cyst they found at the last one will delay things anyway. I'm going to phone the GP today to check they did the referral letter. Great you're involved in some research too. If you got the second one done it might delay you too much but I know you had to do a lot to ovulate anyway.

Fifibell- I hate those unexpected expenses! Our car went to the garage yesterday about this annoying knocking noise. It's going to cost £750 to sort! But it's got worse and does my head in and as I spend a lot of time in the car so it has to be done. Exciting you're starting meds. I've not heard of gonapeptyl, is it a down reg one?. Best of luck!!.

KJade- absolutely check everything!. Better to be sure. Great that the lining played ball in the end. Hopefully now you're stimming DP is less likely to get smacked!!. I always felt so much better when I started stimming after a down reg. Do you get on ok with steroids?. I never had any side effects from them, well a bit of increased facial hair I think, but that could be age as well 😂

Hi Viv- having similar issues with my DH where he just tells me he's accepted a life without children. He's just going through this for me now and I know he wishes I'd call it a day. It's such a big thing to do though isn't it. He's still supportive but it's not great knowing we aren't on the same page.

Apples glad you had a good time in Amsterdam. You're getting ready to crack on too!. Keeping everything crossed for you lovely ladies that are gearing up for cycles. How did your scan go?. So is where you go a lot cheaper than Serum?. We have our last DE/OS ❄ Out there but if that doesn't work maybe DH would go somewhere that's cheaper?!. The DE cycle cost us €5000.

Carrie- hope you're doing ok. Have you got a plan?. I know I'm always not too bad initially after a BFN then it starts to hit me a few weeks later so I hope you're alright, or as best can be.

Northern anything to report on SD?. 

Hi Rubyring- yes it seems we are all traipsing to Coventry!. I just want to tick everything off.

Hi anyone else that I've missed. 

The Zita West 2ww meditations and pre and post transfer are amazing. The 2ww one was great, I fell asleep every night listening to it. I got it off iTunes. I think you can get cds as well.

I'm just feeling a bit down on life at the moment. The night shifts didn't help and I've been ill since and sleep pattern is well and truly messed up. We went to see DHs family at the weekend. Me and SIL were chatting (funnily enough I had pregdar well and truly focused on them but they have just started having initial tests with the GP after trying for 18 months with not a sniff of a positive. She's 34 and he's 3 and she was saying how she 'used to be' so envious of my life, my really close but big circle of girlfriends, how we were always doing things, meeting up, having lots of fun, me and DH always having such a great social life and us always going places and doing things. I was like, yes and look at me now!. I generally avoid most of my friends and social things, I've deleted social media. I don't get invited to things I would have been previously.

It just made me think about how much of an impact all this has had on my life, on me, my friendships, my outlook. It's sad. I think things change as you get older anyway but I don't feel like my changes were a natural progression, they were enforced through dealing with this. 

Don't think being in cyst limbo is helping either. I've also had a weird shoulder pain for 2 months now which has impacted on what exercise I can do which is how I manage my own mental health.

I'm sure I'll feel better soon and sorry for being so negative. It's only you ladies who truly understand the toll that years of this takes so it's helpful to be able to say it to people who get it. 

Anyway ladies, onwards and upwards, I'm keeping everything crossed for you ladies cycling and some lovely news for this thread. 

Xx


----------



## Angedelight

Just seen it's international happiness day today!. I'll swerve that one then! 😂


----------



## bippy11

oh Mrs C, Im sorry to hear your are feeling down. I can completely understand with all the cyst malarky, delays always get me really down. Hopefully the GP have done your referral and you won't have to wait too long. It's good that in the meantime, you can use the time to get the second Coventry test done. Definitely ask for gas and air next time, it helps (I've had biopsies without too and they were much worse). They told me it would be like having 10 gin and tonics! It did make me very light-headed and woozy and I had to stay lying down for a bit afterwards. You have to suck in really hard and I think trying to focus on doing it right also helped distract me a bit from the pain. If it's a choice though, I'd choose a GnT over GnA!  

Working nights sounds horrible, I honestly don't think I could handle that, these days I can really feel it even if I just go to sleep a couple of hours later than normal. Getting so old! It's sad about your SIL and their difficulties, although at least you didn't have an announcement to deal with. It's nice that she's been open and told you about it. 

Fifi, I haven't heard about that one either, is it down reg or stim? Exciting that you are getting going too x

Kjade, well done - better to check than to get it wrong! Prof B was lovely, though quite dismissive of a lot of things. I do think it's not that helpful when doctors are negative about things you have tested and spent money on - at least they could think about the patient and say it in a way that doesn't make them worry whether that was a waste of time and money. I didn't feel like that, I am happy with the tests and decisions we have made along the way, I realise their limitations and we have never been pushed in to anything by our doc, it's all come from us. But some people might find it a bit upsetting. And whilst he doesn't believe in certain tests or approaches, the doctors who are pioneering them obviously do, just like he believes in his. But having said all that, I did appreciate his bluntness and honesty. And I found his insights about the lining function and importance really helpful and learnt a few new things.


----------



## K jade

fifi no I haven't heard of that before. some of the names of the these meds are above and beyond what I can even pronounce! good luck for sunday

MrsC my DH has said similar. on Friday when my lining wasn't playing ball (thank god its now sorted) he said he doesn't even think about our treatment anymore . and he said honestly that he  never gets his hopes up about anything ever treatment wise as over the years as we've had too many disappointments. 
actually I've never had steroids before funnily enough! ill see now when I start them this Friday . hairy chin!    I get that badly already !   still waiting on M from G's office  to get back to me and give the green light to take them. 

Bippy I sort of agree with you about ProfB.  he thinks he has found the answer to implantation failure but im not sure its that simple Mr B.    . if it was just a  case of taking or not taking steroids from EC onwards then a lot more of us would be pregnant by now. 
I think there's a lot more to implantation that just uNK cells and steroids otherwise this thread would be an empty place.


----------



## bippy11

kjade he was actually saying that sometimes steroids are over prescribed and that you should only take them if your uNK cells are classed as high or very high. Because there is a function for them and so if you have normal levels, supressing them could end up doing more harm than good. Did he recommend you to take them? 
Yes I think there are a lot of other factors involved too. Chromosomal abnormalities for one. 
One thing I learnt which was very interesting and made sense is that often women with a lot of miscarriages are super fertile - ie they get pregnant very easily. This is because the initial 'check' is not working and so the body lets an embryo implant that it shouldn't have, so therefore it ends up with miscarriage, instead of the body rejecting it at the earlier stage. 
Another thing he said was that every time you have a unique embryo and a new lining, so even though you have had previous implantation failures / miscarriages, this is a new chance for things to work. 

By the way, my lining was 10.8 - I think yesterday would have been more or less transfer day - that is the best we've ever known - hopefully it'll get nice and thick again for transfer cycle.


----------



## K jade

bippy11 said:


> kjade he was actually saying that sometimes steroids are over prescribed and that you should only take them if your uNK cells are classed as high or very high. Because there is a function for them and so if you have normal levels, supressing them could end up doing more harm than good. Did he recommend you to take them?


This is the problem im having. Im aware that the general view is that steroids can do more harm that good if taken unnecessarily . my uNKs were normal and _his_ advice was no. definitely don't take steroids. 
Dr G however wants me to take them, even though he has indicated he also agrees with the school of thought that if your uNks are normal then you shouldn't take steroids. however, he has asked me to take them. 
this is what I am confused about and am as we speak, waiting for the phone call to get double clarification from FGA on why I should take them.

thats interesting about the MC thing and now you come to mention it I remember him saying the exact same thing to me.

great news on your lining !! xx


----------



## bippy11

oh gosh, it's really not helpful when the experts can't agree and you get conflicting advice - even conflicting advice from the same Dr!!! You're right to question it and try to get clarification from him - this is what you are paying him for, so he should take the time to consider your case and give you a clear answer!


----------



## K jade

exactly bippy , its so annoying!
interestingly my NHS (yes nhs!) consultant also thought I should have steroids even thought my uNKs were normal!
I haven't heard back from maria at fga yet,  ill email tomorrow morning if I don't hear by the end of the day
xx


----------



## apples2014

Hello my lovelies 

Sorry I’ve been reading but not had a chance to message. 

Bippy and Mrs C glad it went okay. Yah hurrah for gas and air but it’s manageable. Glad you both found Prof B good. I just find him so simple to understand and like his honesty even about the limits of their research as it’s still ongoing. Hope you get results soon. 

Limbo is pants so thinking of you all xx

Kjade babes you have lift off so you started stimms now? You okay? Hope you get clarity about steroids it’s all so annoying and confusing. 

I’m Day 10 now. 
Had scan yesterday. So day 9 lining was 7 in some and 6 in other readings but average was 6.9 but for day 9 that’s really no worries. 
There was a 8mm follicle and almost 11mm but also it’s day 9 and the purpose was for monitoring only. All looked okay though (that’s the story of my ivf life though ah) 

Back tomorrow I questioned if tomorrow too soon and should be day 12 but they want to see follicle size so am doing as I’m told. 
So they looking for follicle to get to a certain size then I take Overtrille trigger and then 36 hours ish later I start 5 or 5.5 or 6 days of progesterone pessaries and then it’s embryo transfer!!! 
So can’t book flights until day I am told to take trigger ! But after all these cycles I’m used to wait wait and wait element so am mostly chill. 

Nervous follicle growing too slow and that pushes me into easter weekend but if on track roughly speaking transfer is next thurs Ish!!

About clinics- 
Reprofit in Brno and Gennet in Prague are cheaper than serum and the drugs in the C Republic are significantally cheaper. That said I loved serum and penny but that flight (time and costs) and the cost became all too much. On a Good wind Prague is only 2 hours flight and it’s cheaper to stay and eat there but I stress we had no choice to change due to ££££ we had previously been at one of London’s fancy good clinics, CRGH and had spent CRAZY money so after two tries with Penny we had to have a cost change of plan. But success rates are good at Gennet - we are as in me and DH are so unlucky!

You are in good hands with serum  though I believe xxx. But if you fancied a change with the exception of my consultant having some issues (ego I think ha ha) about natural FET and he came around fGennet have been flipping brilliant. It’s also very efficient and successful. 

That said if this doesn’t pan out for us we might try Reprofit but I should stop right now as don’t want to focus on that am in the now and all that! Just trying to focus on now. 

I’m actually loving Mr Irish Mindful IVF app I’m on the prep 10 at the moment. I’ve heard lovely things about zita  West one too actually just recalled I’ve heard it my buddy lent it to me once , but I am loving this one a lot. He’s kind! Ha ha 

Big hugs to everyone else. Hope you all okay. 

Off to scoff a protein rich dinner (ha ha I sound fancy it’s just fish) 

Lots of love Apples 

Wish my lining and follicle that needs to grow to be triggered out lots of love and luck! Will update you tomorrow ! 

Oh ps just to say, we’ve moved onto donor embies 2 years this May and I’ve/ we’ve been so okay about it (it was a long road to that decision and we are cool with it) but laying there looking at my follicles listening to scanner yesterday  say how ‘great’ it all looks in there I felt such a lump in my throat. I’m still okay and I’m probably misplaced nerves/anxious about ... transfer #11 (omg) and this is my first attempt since August last year but ...

It’s just so F word hard isn’t it ? And it’s so F word unfair? 
Yah I know no point even saying it but it’s hard. It’s all so draining and hard. 

I’m grateful we have each other xxx

Aley and Carrie massive extra hug too

Love Apples xx


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## Angedelight

Apples I just had a look at Gennets price list-  €40 for 'outpatient treatment for irritation of the endometrium'. That's the scratch for £35. I've paid £250 over here, absolute daylight robbery!. They do cheap hysto's too. They seem to have a lot of guarantees/offer free cycles if things don't work. What's the communication like?
X


----------



## apples2014

Hey just on way to work after my scan

So it’s seems NOT taking oestrogen is so far working out okay for me! Early days but so far so good ! 
Follicle has grown to 15 so I guess trigger is tomorrow. I’ve emailed Gennet to await instructions. 
But lining is best I think I’ve ever had. Average reading is 9.9 (it’s day 11 now) so readings where 9, some 10 and some just 11 but average is 9.9 so now I just wait and see what they tell me today next. This is my first bash at natural FET so it’s all new! 

How is everyone else? 

The sun has come out here and it’s so welcome! 

Mrs C I’ve been mega lucky my coordinator is a complete super star and I actually love her. They have a policy though if you are not currently in a treatment cycle they take 2 or 3 days to reply so that’s okay if you know that. But they do reply within a few days. 

In a cycle different story they reply the same day 
Your coordinators also are the ones that meet you when you arrive for consultation, tests, egg collection, transfer etc etc so most email communication comes after lunch time as they are flat out all morning. When I was doing natural own egg IVF they gave me a mobile number I could text out of hours about when to take a trigger or a certroide injection etc. We’ve been lucky with communication and they’ve been supported after the sad times as well. Always a follow up on Skype, ask lots of questions. 
You can 10 per cent off each cycle after your first if it hasn’t worked and there are donor offers as well yes. I’m not paying for my next cycle through this scheme. Please feel free to inbox me. 
I’ve onlg had an issue with wanting to try natural FET as my consultant feels success rates higher with medicated FET but he came around but it was annoying about that. But that is my only issue and it’s resolved and he’s supportive now. 

Love Apples xxx


----------



## K jade

Omg apples that's amazing news! Sounds like your super lining never needed artificial oestrogen after all!! How exciting 

MrsC yes gennet is very very reasonable price wise .in fact I think it may even the cheapest clinic going. But not a bad service at all from what I hear 
I just drove past THAT clinic u went to in my hometown LOL. don't worry I made sure I gave it the daggers through the window 

M didn't get back to me yesterday about my steroids as Dr  G was out all day at a conference 
Shes going to email me today to confirm. Meanwhile I'm picking them up anyway from hospital pharmacy right now. 

In other news our house is going on the market this week! I think I said at the meet up we wanna move further into the city centre. In suburbs at  the moment. It's not for us. 
Also we have issue with our dog. She's badly behaved around other dogs and has gone for every  dog in the park. So we need to get out before neighbours do a petition calling for our darling to be confiscated.


----------



## Angedelight

I could scream. GP surgery receptionist phoned back today. No, they haven't had an email from me forwarding the emailed letter from Coventry with all the cyst issues outlined. Dr is still asking for it. I sent it 9th March. Go back to my sent emails. Go through it. They say they still don't have it. Confirm email address. They then find it!. They've done nothing with it. Why hasn't this been actioned I ask with suppressed rage. The header said URGENT FAO Dr S. She doesn't know. I said Well do you think you could action this immediately to avoid any further delays? Yes she says. Thinks she knows I'm raging and is contrite. Luckily that GP is in today- he only does 2 days a week. 
I can't stand incompetence! Why would you ignore and not action an email that has URGENT in the header along with who to forward it to and clear instructions in the main email?. I'm taking the scan pictures down later. If I'm still angry I'll make a verbal complaint whilst I'm down there.
Rant over!
X


----------



## K jade

oh no hun that's not on   
all they had to do was forward it to the Dr. its a case of clicking 'forward' on the computer. how difficult is that?  
no  wander your fuming  


ok its a YES on the steroids. M just emailed me. 
so its steroids a-go-go for me from this Friday
On Saturday I started getting a smidgen of a sore throat . it faded Sunday and Monday but its back today. 
This makes me think that my immunes are still strong as clearly a bug is trying me and my body is fighting it very well.
so on that basis perhaps steroids are the right course of action.........

dumb question... are they pills or injections?


----------



## bippy11

kjade they are pills. Make sure you take them in the morning, otherwise you won't sleep. And I think they should be taken after food. Are you on 20mg? Im not sure immunes that are fighting a cold are related to immunes that will be active in the lining and womb area. But if your dr says to take them, then best to follow that advice. Exciting about your move! Although hopefully it won't get too stressful on top of the treatment. 

MrsC that's rubbish! I recently had similar issue - EPAU were meant to refer me to a recurrent miscarriage clinic. I left it 2 weeks after my appointment, then called in to check they had done the referral which of course they hadn't - well supposedly it had been written but not sent. It took me a further week and a half of calling them every morning asking if it had been sent and begging them to send it. Made me want to scream too - it's enough to drive anyone crazy! Finally they then sent over a weird letter addressed to me, which the miscarriage clinic said they couldn't accept. The nurse there kindly said that she would chase them to send a proper referral. I then called back a week later and she hadn't heard back from them, so I begged her to accept what they had sent and in the end they did - and gave me an appointment in over 2 months time! It's so annoying for you that you've lost those weeks and now have to wait even longer. Is the letter so that the doctor can refer you to hospital to get the cyst removed? 

Apples that's such great news about your lining!  Oestrogen did nothing for my lining either, just gave me terrible headaches whenever I came off it.


----------



## K jade

bippy11 said:


> kjade they are pills. Make sure you take them in the morning, otherwise you won't sleep. And I think they should be taken after food. Are you on 20mg?


25mg
so 5 pills per day
ive just picked them up. along with the clexane
dr G says I need to take the clex in the morning as well. so i'm guessing ill take it along with the steroids....
do I need to store either of them in the fridge?
xx


----------



## bippy11

Hi kjade, they dont need to be in the fridge. Good luck starting it all tomorrow! x

Apples any news on how your follicle is getting on / when trigger is? x


----------



## bippy11

Ladies, this is the fertility fest that I mentioned when we met up - organised by Jessica Hepburn, who has written The Pursuit of Motherhood and will have a new book (21 Miles) coming out to coincide with the festival in May - Ive got it on order and cant wait to read it. 
https://www.fertilityfest.com/
I went to the first one a couple of years ago and it was really good and refreshing (and sad) x


----------



## apples2014

Thanks Bippy I will take a look at the book xxx
Hope you are okay lovely. 

Mrs C I don’t even know what to say about your GP practice. 
I write a letter to the practice manager and senior GP it might just help get it off your chest. I’m beyond frustrated for you. Really so rubbish. 

Kjade aw wow so exciting babes you really are on track now babe. So I think if you’ve not tried steroids before and dr g suggests them then it sounds like a great idea. Is all about trying and mixing it up to as long as consultants tell us and we don’t go rouge and treat ourselves ha ha. I think it sounds great I try. 
someone said it but just to say take the prednisone steroids as soon as you have managed some cereal or toast or what ever you eat for breakie but get them in you ASAP as they muck up your sleep otherwise so definitely take them at breakfast time. 
Clexane can be a tiny bit stingy. My mate told me a tip sit down and pull your tummy skin a bit flatter with your hand and pop it in. It stings a bit less and bruises you less. If no one said clexane bruises you quite fast as it thins the blood but it’s a magically drug and I’ve so many buddies who have babies now and it’s highly likely the clexane fixed lots of things. 
I’m so pleased you got it on NHS because when you have the clotting mutations like the MRFTH etc it’s supposed to be available from GP

How you doing? 
How’s your naughty dog ? Ha ha I love animals xxxx

Guys I’m triggered and flights are booked!!
They actually got in touch yesterday and said to trigger yesterday evening so after my dinner I stuck in the Overtrille and I start progestrone pessaries tomorrow. 
Antibiotics for 5 days on Saturday and clexane from ET! 
Oh and injectable progesterone as well but after ET
So I’m off to Prague on Weds and ET is next Thursday at 11am. 

Im listening to mr lovely mindful ivf app a lot ha ha 
So far am really calm. Hope it lasts. 

Oh and just to say spoke to Prof Brosen’s last night briefly too. My biopsy came back as receptive so I feel good about the none medicated FET so far! 

Please work!!! 

Big hello to everyone else xxx

Love Apples xx


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all
So my lovely GP phoned me to apologise for the incompetence of the admin staff and said he will flag it up to the practice manager (saves me a job!) as not ok. He's done the letter and that will have gone off Thursday and he said he stressed the importance of time with regards to treatment. So tomorrow I'm phoning up where I've been referred to to find out how long it takes to get seen etc and what the criteria is to be seen quickly!. 

Apples- exciting!!! How long are you there for?. Are you both going?. Is this a donated embryo cycle?. Do they match you for those?. Also does the womb biopsy test receptivity as standard?.

Bippy will get that book on my Amazon wish list.

KJsde- love a naughty dog! What breed is she?. Good luck with the house being on the market- I imagine it's all quite fast moving in Cardiff?. Have you found anything you like yet?. Thanks for giving daggers to the nasty clinic!. Ckexane stings and bruises. Just as well it's not bikini season!. 

Hi everyone else. 

X


----------



## K jade

apples that's great news
so your ERA came back as receptive on a non medicated cycle? that just goes to show this is your issue here. artificial oestrogen messing up your receptivity. 
forgive my ignorance but I had no idea that Professor B/ the Coventry clinic offered the ERA... I thought they only did the NK biopsy.
How did you go about getting it from them?  I take it its a service they offer privately.  

MrsC shes a smooth collie. along with a bit of a mix of other breeds thrown in too. 
very affectionate and loving. just not to other dogs sadly . 
recently the housing markets gone a bit slow here in Cardiff. I wander if brexit might be to blame.  lots of properties up on right move that have been there for months and haven't shifted... found a few things we like but the hard part I think maybe getting someone interested in ours. 
great news that the GP is on your side this should mean your are shot right up to the top of that waiting list 
x


----------



## bippy11

kjade hows it gone with the steroids and clexane so far? 

Mrs C Im so glad your GP was apologetic and is looking in to it for you. Did you find out where you will be referred to and how long the wait might be? 

Apples so exciting how close you are to ET! Im glad you're feeling calm. 

We've got tickets for the Saturday of Fertility Fest. Are any of you thinking of going? x


----------



## K jade

I'm doing OK Bippy  . As yet I havent noticed any steroid side effects but I'm sure they'll come.
Clexane has been painless so far but I've been getting bruises from my stims weirdly which I've never had before 
Just met with a friend for a coffee,  and girl we know from uni has got cancer so started her chemo this week . That made me realise things could be worse  
Off to do a big shop now. Then gonna try and put my feet up this evening xxx


----------



## K jade

Well I'm currently on a heavy  cocktail of stims steroids and clexane and I feel NOTHING . No symptoms nothing different.  
I don't know why but it's making me really angry.
Why doesn't my body ever DO ANYTHING  .
I'm just this non pregnant lump of an organism that can't seem to do anything else , even react to a shed loada drugs.
Can't do anything at all except resist everything and  anything that might get me pregnant 

No idea what I'm even talking about of it it makes any sense but just needed to get it out !!!!


----------



## apples2014

Hi babe 

I hear you. I’ve had a bit of an anxious wobble this morning. 

It’s all just nerves honey. Go and do something to distract yourself that’s what I’m gonna do. 

Clexane won’t make you feel a thing babes nothing it simply thins blood there is no side effect you won’t feel any different. Your body will bruise a lot more easily due to being on clexane but that is it xx

The steroids only start to give you some side effects when you’ve been on them quite a few weeks. I noticed my eye pupils were larger on them! If you taking them first thing you also shouldn’t feel too much from them so don’t let any lack of symptoms bother you. 
Gotta go but couldn’t read and run. 

Lots of love xxx

Hi everyone xxx


----------



## fifibell

Ah kjade I know what you mean. I've just started my meds today and as I was swallowing all the tablets I thinking I pumping all these drugs into my system and I've know clue if it's even going to help.

How long have you been stimming now? When are you next in for a scan?


----------



## fifibell

Ah kjade I know what you mean. I've just started my meds today and as I was swallowing all the tablets I thinking I pumping all these drugs into my system and I've know clue if it's even going to help.

How long have you been stimming now? When are you next in for a scan?


----------



## fifibell

Ah kjade I know what you mean. I've just started my meds today and as I was swallowing all the tablets I thinking I pumping all these drugs into my system and I've know clue if it's even going to help.

How long have you been stimming now? When are you next in for a scan?


----------



## Angedelight

KJade I've never had any symptoms from steroids, slept like a baby!. I'm sure they increased hair growth (in all the wrong places) but I might be kidding myself, it's probably my age!. You'll notice the clexane when you have your intralipids, the bleeding wouldn't stop when they took the cannula out!. Be glad you have no side effects, I've known lots of people really feel it on steroids. I'm sure you'll start feeling it on the stimms soon- sounds like you had a good amount of follies to start. You'll be bloated and feeling it in no time!!. When are you back in for a scan? 

Hope everyone is having a nice weekend x


----------



## K jade

Thanks ladies was having a right paddy. 

Fifi I'm on day 7 now. Just completed tonight's dose  . Scan tomorrow  . Good luck , what meds are u taking and what dose? R u doing tandem again?  

That makes a lot of sense about the steroids / clexane and  tbh I don't know what I was expecting to feel but u ladies have put my mind to rest on that 1. 

However with the stims I often hear of ladies complaining of 'bloating' and feeling like their ovaries are golf balls

I don't get anything LIKE that and right now stomach is as flat as a pancake ( I kno that's not ordinarily a reason to be upset) and jeans can do right up no discomfort . Tbh I don't think I get bloating full stop as can't really imagine a time I've ever had it. 
Sounds such a stupid thing to moan about but I can't help thinking that my ovaries are doing sweet eff all right now ..

Oh and just another grumble but the injections are getting worse and worse. Bizarrely not the clexane. Thats  fine  . It's the dam down regger and stims. I'm finding i have to inject lower and lower as abdomen stings too much. I'm practically going into my groin now!


----------



## K jade

Me again 
So scan looking okay
About 10 follies measuring well and on track . About 5 which measure 8-9 so I'm really hoping they'll catch up..
I really want 15 eggs tbh...


----------



## Northern

That’s good news kjade! Don’t worry about the lack of bloating - I never really bloated until a day or two before ec and then mostly after ec, and that’s with about 30 follies and 20 eggs so bloating isn’t everything! Fingers crossed the rest will catch up, there’s plenty time for them yet xx

Apples hope all’s well with you and you have a good trip out to Prague tomorrow! Will be checking in to see how you get on xxx

Hi to everyone, I’m still here reading quietly in the background! X


----------



## bippy11

Hi Northern, lovely to hear from you   How are you doing? I guess there is not too long till you can start the adoption process in motion? 

kjade that's great news!   hopefully the other ones will catch up, but don't get too worried about the number, sounds like you will have a good amount and it is the quality that is more important. And enjoy your pancake stomach while it lasts   Are you doing fresh or frozen transfer? (sorry I can't remember)

Mrs C hope you are ok and have had some progress with your referral and getting booked in. 

Fifi exciting that you've got going too! Did you agree with your Dr how to time the transfer in light of your ERA test? 

Apples how are you doing? 

Ive got my period although it seems to be very light, so that concerns me a bit, but hopefully we can get started with stimms in the next few days to build the lining for FET.


----------



## K jade

thanks girlies

Bippy im doing a fresh transfer  all being well.  
Northern now you come to mention it I did get bloated last time, but like you, only after EC.

my EC will either be on good Friday or on Monday, im hoping itll be a good sign with it being Easter you know. lots of eggs!   I really wanted at least 15 I know that's greedy. I hope to have frosties but I know that's a bit of a luxury.

does anyone have any idea what I can do for protein. I used to do shakes but im off milk now and cant find any vegan ones..
xxx


----------



## Mrsfw

Hi ladies, can I join this thread..? Seems like the only place I fit at the moment.
I've been TTC 5 years and had 8 cycles IVF (6 with own eggs and 2 with donor eggs) and had every test under the sun.
I started in London, last 2 tries were in Cyprus and I've just changed clinics and going to the States for our 'last stop' try with a new donor.
Looking forward to getting to know you all and chatting 😊
Best of luck to all x


----------



## bippy11

Hi Mrsfw, welcome. I think we may have met on another thread at some point, I seem to remember you. Nice to have you here with us, all the ladies here are very supportive and kind. I am sorry to hear about your difficult journey - and you had a miscarriage very recently? I am so sorry for your loss. We had one at 9 weeks end of Dec and I am still struggling with that, although it is helping now that we are hopefully soon moving on to a new transfer and can focus on that. When will you be going to the states? It's a long way, but I get the impression they are quite advanced over there. x


----------



## K jade

Welcome mrsfw . It looks like u have had quite a journey! So 
So many of us on this thread are in the unexplained category it sucks. 
Can I ask who u are going to in the US? Is it braverman?  

Oh gosh girls I'm struggling. Been busy all morning running around my house as estate agent was coming to take photos.  Rushing around getting stressed and now I'm in a panic that I've 'ruined' my follies. Can your follies 'pop'or dissapper if you move too much or life heavy things like hoovers?
I appreciate that sounds completely  insane now I've written it down. ..   but yes this is a serious question


----------



## bippy11

kjade your follies are not going to be affected by a bit of hovering. Dont tire yourself out completely as you are asking a lot of your body at the moment, so it's best to take it a bit easy, but don't worry, you won't have damaged them. When is your next scan? 

My period has been really heavy today, which Im glad about. Hopefully I can get a good new thick lining for transfer!

It's DH's birthday so just waiting for him to come home (he had parents evening!) Have ordered pizza as a treat!  

Hope you are all well - a few we haven't heard from for a while, Aley, Bettyville, Carrie and a few others, hope you are all ok xxx


----------



## K jade

Thanks hun that put my mind at rest after I read that. Unbelievable the stuff which goes through your head isn't it.  I had a good rest after estate agent went. 
Hope u had a nice evening with DH. Mmmmmm. ..I love pizza.  Domino's veggie feast my fave 

So scan went well. 19 follies now. They were dithering on Friday for EC or Monday but the final verdict was Monday .
Lining is best ever at 11.4 triple lined  and I'm soooo grateful for that as  I kno from many ladies on here never to take a nice lining for granted .
Off to crgw in a bit for intralipids 
Xx


----------



## apples2014

Welcome mrsFW 
I’m sorry that you are here too but your plans sound good. 

A quick hello I’m in Prague! 
Update tomorrow after transfer! 

Kjade that is a proper special lining and amaze balls follicle. Proper excited for you xx

Hi everyone else xxx

Love Apples xx


----------



## K jade

Apples I'm hoping that this  is a lucky time for us to be cycling. 
Apparatly easter was  originally the celebration of fertility , before Christianity. 
So this must be a sign


----------



## bippy11

kjade that's excellent! really pleased for you, so far, so good. Are you starting to feel it now? I would imagine that you would with 19 follicles. 

apples good luck for transfer tomorrow, hope it all goes smoothly. 

please let this be the lucky cycle for you both xx


----------



## apples2014

Hello! 

Kjade I love that you’ve told me Easter was originally a celebration of fertility! 
Here is hoping!! 

Thank you so much for lovely messages lovely ones. 

There are two onboard! 
Prague was good. In and out but managed lovely dinner, two lots of acupuncture, cinema and had best hotel breakie ha! 
Transfer was very good. They were frozen as AA quality and remained the same. Embryologist was beaming she was happy! 
Transfer all fine and now it’s the wait! 

Was nice to be home again last night. 
Have lazy plans today and tomorrow. 

Seeing family Sunday and Monday. We’ve not told our folks my mum is doing so well after her heart attack but I just didn’t want to worry her. 
Probably tell them next week though we usually do. 
I feel good! 
But I always do after transfer! 
It lasts until day 5 or 6 then I’m a anxious mess! But the mindful ivf chap is still really helping. 

My lining for the natural FET was very good and the consultant (not our moody one Northern ha ha he’s on holiday) was really happy with it. It was a new consultant she was a lady and very thorough so let’s just hope now! 
I’m off work until Monday 9th April which is when I could have a blood test so that helps. I like being in my own head space and not at work if I can swing it! 

Okay that’s enough about me! 

How is everyone else? What’s new? 

What’s people’s easter plans? 

You think my embryos need to eat some chocolate right? Just a little? 

Is anyone going away? 
Kjade have you had any more scans and are you all confirmed for egg collection on Monday? 

Lots of love 

Apples xxxx


----------



## bippy11

Hi Apples, that's great news about your transfer, sounds like it went perfect! Hopefully those two little embies are snuggling in! Hold on to that positive feeling as long as you can, great that mr mindful is helping you. Haha, Im sure your embies would love some chocolate!   Will you wait to test until blood test on the 9th do you think? 

Im also off work for a week now, phew   We're staying put and it seems like it's going to be a bit of a washout! Never mind, Ive got quite a few yoga classes booked and looking forward to doing some reading too. We had parents in law here last weekend, so nice to just have a breather now. 

We just started injections yesterday, so here we go again. The waiting is over and it's good to get started. 

Kjade how's it going with you hun? Will you have any more scans before EC? 

Hope everyone else is well and have some nice weekend plans x


----------



## K jade

Apples amazing sounds like everything went like a dream! 
Glad your home and dry now. Make sure u put your feet up

Well I have about 26 follies in total  
Maybe I'll be at risk of ohss but oh well
EC Monday morning 
Dh again ruins everything as doesn't want to come with me. He ideally only wants to pick me up but has agreed to compromise and be there when I come round after EC.
I Know what it is. He feels self conscious due to the donor thing but coming with me to EC is literally the ONLY thing I ask of him. I do EVERYTHING else alone. And he can't even do that
So I gotta be on the ward at 8.30. That's the time they tell everyone to be there. 
I guess EC will be 9.30 at the latest. 
Maybe I could persuade him to arrive at 10. 30.....


----------



## bippy11

Wow kjade that's a lot - do you feel it? Last time I had over 30 follies and for the few days before EC my ovaries felt so big and heavy and constantly pressing on my bladder. Hopefully you will get lots of good mature eggs from this. Are you triggering Saturday evening? 
Are they still aiming to do fresh transfer with you having so many follies? 
What a shame that your DH is finding the donor thing so difficult that he is not able to be there for you properly on day of EC when you will need him. Do you think he might come round? x


----------



## K jade

Well...They're hoping too. Rather optimist in mind ! 
Yes defo feeling it now lold 

DH has compromised and will join me at 10.00. 
I keep having to tell myself it's not down to laziness / disinterest but how he feels being there when we're not using his sperm
But I wish he'd suck it up for 1 day!


----------



## bippy11

Kjade good luck tomorrow hun! How are you feeling now? I bet you can't wait for it to be done and over now. Did the trigger go ok yesterday? Glad your DH has at least compromised and will be there for some of it. x

Apples how are you feeling? Still managing to stay positive? Hopefully your embies have enjoyed some good easter chocolate   x


----------



## K jade

I'm a bit nervous 
Only done EC once so I'm a bit of a wimp compared to some of u ladies . YES definitely just want it over with 

Girls what do I do about the steroids?
Do I still take them tomorrow? 
Obviously I can't take them in the morning as I'm nill by mouth ....


----------



## bippy11

aw kjade, I can understand, it's a nervous time before egg collection, I always get so worried about every little thing that could possibly go wrong. You'll be fine and it'll be a relief once it's over with. will be thinking of you, let me know how you get on xxx
Take your steroids after, once you have had a bit of food in you again. It's fine to take them a bit late one day, but you definitely have to take them, you can't just not take them as that can be dangerous with steroids, when you come off them you have to very gradually step it down over a number of weeks.


----------



## Angedelight

Good luck for tomorrow KJade!!! Hope all goes well and you get a good amount of lovely eggs.
Hope everyone is having a nice bank holiday weekend.
Welcome MrsFw, sorry you find yourself here.
Keeping everything crossed for those of you starting/doing cycles/in 2ww. This thread needs some positive news!! 🤞🤞🤞
X


----------



## apples2014

Morning 
Really quick one as with the fam but Kjade so much love and luck for EC this morning. 

Thinking of you lots of love. 

Big massive hello to everyone else. 

Two week wait is evil. I’m so moody and feel really grumpy. Really busy with family as well so slapping a big smile on but inside I feel really grrr! I think am also a bit in denial that we are doing this again. I’m trying to keep chipper! I’m calm but I’m also feeling really grrrr! I know it doesn’t make sense. Hard to explain. 
It’s day 4 since embryo transfer. I just chilled Friday and Saturday but was super grumpy! Not sure why! Yesterday went fast as had big family day. Today is the same so hope it goes fast. 

Anyway enough of me! 

Nothing of any note to tell you! I can’t believe it’s only been 4 days !!! 

Lots of love 
Apples xxxx

Can’t wait to hear from you Kjade. Thinking of you heaps xx


----------



## K jade

Apples although it's probably way too early for symptoms I'm just soooooooo hoping this is your time finally 
Try and keep your self as distracted as possible,  u can do this! Keep thinking positive thoughts of that embio getting snug. 

OK so home and dry.
Feel absolutely fine
15 eggs!!
I am pleased as it's not too many so hopefully quality be pretty good
Sperm however was a bit sluggish 
So they are doing icsi . I hope that won't affect things too much...


----------



## apples2014

Am finally home from Easter visiting. 

Kjade that is amazing. 15 eggs. Really fab news babes. 
Fingers crossed for great embie updates tomorrow. I remember the angst of waiting to know well. 

Glad you are feeling fine. 

Mrs C and Bippy nice to hear from you. Hope you all had lovely Easter’s. 

I had a cuddle of a 9 day old baby today. I’m usually not up for new borns for obvious reasons as I worry I will be upset  but he was so cute. It was nice. 
I want this so much, for all of us. 
It is so hard. 

Lots of love
Apples xxx


----------



## K jade

OK so they were able to inject 11
Out of 11    eight fertilised normally 
They are hoping for a day 5 transfer 
Just hoping I get some


----------



## bippy11

Kjade that's great news you've got 8 fertilised!   Hopefully enough will make it that you can transfer and have some frosties. It's such an anxious time waiting to find out and quite demoralising as the number just keeps going down. Really hope you'll get enough to freeze. Did you take your steroids after EC? Glad you're feeling physically fine after having so many follicles. Are you working this week or have you got time off? xxx

Apples that's lovely that you got to have a baby cuddle and was ok with it - was it a little nephew? Im usually not up for new borns either, but when it is someone special like nieces or best friends baby, I have really liked it even if its also made me feel sad at the same time. Like you - it makes me wish so much that it will happen and re-enforces how much I want it. 
Time ticks by so slowly during treatment, but in 2WW it almost comes to a standstill. Hang in there Apples, minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day youll get there xxx


----------



## K jade

Yes I took the steroids.  A bit later on with some toast

I don't feel great  
My abdomen feels extremely sore 
I'm drinking water continously but not really passing water
Only have twice today 
But I don't feel sick and no chest pain or anything 
I hope this is just normal  post EC teething issues...
I really want to do a fresh transfer


----------



## apples2014

Kjade are you feeling any better ? 

You had lots of follicles so your body is adjusting but hope after another nights rest you feel better tomorrow. Fingers crossed for great update tomorrow xx

I feel unbalanced ha ha very tired and emotional! Lucky DH! 

Big hello’s to everyone else. Love Apples xxx


----------



## K jade

Better today thanks apples.
Was a bit groggy and in some pain during the night but today it's eased 
I just walked to the shop to buy milk no problems
Have called in sick however
I can't be dealing with work right now. Weird evening sore throat is still happening. It goes in the daytime. So I feel my immune issues may still be present. Steroids....I'm not sure they were the right thing for me.  I feel neupogen would have been a better option. 

So.... Some of u may already know about twin gate but for those of u who don't let me explain just for a laugh.  
So our house is on the market and we have had a flood of interest in the first few days.
The first viewer coming tomorrow is apparently exceptionally keen.
Because she's expecting twins very soon and apparently our house is ideal.
Now I live on a small cul de sac of just 4 houses. I may have mentioned that my next door neighbours have b/g twins. Rather naively perhaps  twins are my absolute dream. B/g even more so.
When we moved to this current house 3 yrs ago I resigned myself to the fact that even though we were going to have IVF, I'd never have twins. Because what are the chances of that when my next door neighbour already has them? Pretty low in the law of averages right? 
So I feel it is the cruelest most ironic twist of fate that the woman, who may well put an offer in tomorrow and end up living on this very street has twins! 
It appears I was wrong. The law of averages can in fact be defied!
But just not in my favour. Again. 
Just needed to get that out to peeps who understand 
Oh... and by the way the couple who bought our last house also had twins so that's probably why this is ticking me off further. 

Back to reality of course I'm just gonna be over the moon if I ever even get a singleton so need to let my pre occupation with twins go.


----------



## apples2014

Kjade am so pleased you feeling better than yesterday but glad you off work. 

I’m being very lazy today. It’s nice to be lazy sometimes. 

I’ve been told that taking neoupegen when you don’t need it can be problematic so have a chat with Gorgy about it honey, surely he would have prescribed it if that’s what you need. It’s very hard to know what’s for the best and what isn’t and we could drive ourselves loopy. 
That’s how I felt about immunes. Serum and Gennet both kept saying I didn’t need to have immunes checked and that wasn’t it! But I insisted last year as just wanted to know and yah okay it turned out the immunes were fine and it wasn’t that but I know what you mean about worrying if taking the right mix of drugs. 

The twins story is really random isn’t it! 
But you don’t know babe. You might have twins! Do you think you will transfer two? Is your next update tomorrow about the embies. Am thinking of them for you ha ha but I am! 
It’s such an anxious time waiting to know how many, how are they? Can you freeze any? Lots of love xx

I was supposed to meet a friend today but her little boy isn’t well but we was supposed to be going to a trampoline play thingie and it’s the kids holidays so it I’m now thinking this is a blessing she cancelled as it would have been too much I think. 

I have a terrible itchy tingle on my lip and there is tiny tiny little mounds so I’m basically getting a cold sore. I’ve not had one for years and years. I used to get them in my 20’s when I was run down but I’m 40 now and not run down. But I guess two week wait is a time of great angst. 

What can I do? Maybe I should go see a chemist ? I hate coldsores I don’t want it! Go away NOW! 

Northern I joined the National trust yesterday so made me think of you. We went to Scotney Castle to get out for something to do and it was so expensive to go in for us two it made more sense to join. I’ve always wanted a national trust car sticker to avoid the car park charges ha ha 

Nothing else to report. 
Day 6 of the two week wait. 
No symptoms, I’m okay but also wobbly too. I think I will pee on a stick on Sunday most likely that’s day 10 and get a hcg on Monday (day 11 since transfer then). 
I won’t test earlier as I had pregnyl shots as part of my FET so don’t want to do that to myself, rather just wait until Sunday when I know that all pregnyl is officially out of my body. 
Still listening to the mindful ivf app it’s kinda good still. 

I’m going because I’m basically waffling! 

Big hi to everyone else. 
Love Apples xx


----------



## Northern

Apples congrats on the car sticker!  I know what you mean, best thing about it especially round here! 
Glad you're surviving and not going too insane just yet.  Probably no bad thing your friend had to cancel, would be a lot to put yourself through at the moment, especially in Easter holidays when everywhere probably busier than normal. 

Kjade the twins thing - you couldn't write it could you?!  It's another sign that the universe just has it in for some of us and comes up with these 'hilarious' coincidences....!  Did you get any update today about embryo development or do you have to wait til tomorrow?  Hope they're all growing away nicely.  How is dh doing with it all now? 

Bippy how are your injections going? 

I'm trying to come up with excuses to get out of a 1st birthday party at the end of the month (honestly, what is the point in me being there?? It's my best friend's niece, she wants a few of her friends there for company but really she'll be wrapped up playing with the baby anyway and I would just be an awkward childless bystander), and also weighing up whether to meet up with a few friends on Saturday night, one of which is the newly announced pregnancy from Mother's Day.  Think I'm best getting it over with as can then avoid it all for a few months as we don't see each other too often as everyone so busy - would prob rather see her now than at 5-6 months when she's got a massive bump.  Might just play tactful on this one and get it over with  

xxx


----------



## K jade

Northern skip your best friends cousins dogs aunties best friends brothers birthday or whatever it was. You have NO Obligation  to attend that!  
As for your friend who's preggers yeh maybe see her sooner rather than later but if she starts moaning about tiredness and sickness leave LOL 

Speaking of preggers women I'm guessing my SIL is probably at the stage of finding out if they are having a boy or girl. I wander if I should enquire. On second thoughts can I be bothered ? No. 

Apples hope your staying Sane there Hun. I'll be joining u soon in 2ww hell and not looking forward to it. It's the worst part of this. I can handle the stimming and EC ing. 

So 7 of my embies are on track and between 8 and 6 cells. Another at 5 cells so probably  a goner. 
Embryologist said they were a range of grading and that was normal. I didn't ask how many were top grade. Although I would hope at least 3 are
Compared to my last IVF I've done marginally better. 
My last fertilisation rate was 62% , this time round its 72%
The  percentage of embies on track @ day 3 last time was 80%
This time it's 87% 
So I've done a little better possibly down to following it starts with an egg advice. Who knows. 
Anyway transfer is Saturday , let's hope things continue to move in the right direction xx

****sorry girls can anyone advise I've just had a thought. 
As I said my transfer is Saturday 
With my last cycle the frostie wasn't identified and frozen until day 6. So if that happens in this case , day 6 will fall on a Sunday 
Do embryology labs usually open on a Sunday?  I'd hate to lose a frostie because the embies cannot be checked ?


----------



## bippy11

Northern nice to hear from you   My injections are going fine thanks, we had a scan yesterday and my lining has grown quicker than I had expected so I was pleasantly surprised, which is an unusual feeling - I had been bracing myself for something having gone wrong. Fingers crossed it continues to run smoothly. 

I don't think you should feel bad about not going to this 1 year birthday party - I can see it would be tricky if it was your best friends baby, but it's your best friends niece - you don't need to feel that you ought to do that. Does your best friend know your situation? If she does, Im sure she will understand. If she does it's actually a bit strange that she has asked you to come?.. But yes maybe it's best to see the other friend now rather than later when she has a bump. And if there are other people there too, hopefully you can chat to someone else if the talk turns to pregnancy etc. You could always say from the start that you are feeling a bit under the weather and then it'll give you an easier way out if you want to leave early. 

Apples not long to go until Sunday - although I know it'll seem like an age away! Hang in there you're doing really well!   My husband sometimes gets cold sores when he is really run down - you can buy sticks / cream in the pharmacy and if you put it on straight away as soon as you feel the tingle you can sometimes avoid the horrible scab. 

kjade it's great that you've still got 7 on track and that things have improved since your last round. My most recent EC was also my most successful despite being a few years older than my first one and I think some of it is down to the fact that we made so many changes, following 'it starts with an egg' advice. Sometimes I think cycles also just differ, but it can't have hurt to have followed all that advice. 
I don't know about the day 6 / sunday thing - I think you should call your hospital to check as I imagine it will depend on the place, but I would be very surprised if they would allow some to be lost just because it is a sunday - surely not?? 

fifi how are you doing? You were getting ready for transfer too, so that must be around about now? Hope it's all going well xx


----------



## K jade

Thanks Bippy I think your right , they cant let my embies perish just cause it's a Sunday!  What about peeps who reach day 3 or 5 on Sunday 
They must work 7 days a week 
Great news on your lining! 


So my sister is having an absolute nightmare with her 2 kids one is self harming and the other punching her , strangling her , hitting her . Both refuse to attend school .
Social services / camhs involved for num of years nothing makes any difference whatsoever . I know of  no one who has children with such unbelievably complex issues. 
Shes had enough and just wants SS to take them away. This sounds awful but I can see why she thinks that way its relentless and her son is abusive day in day out. Sister  is on verge of alcoholism to cope. 

Selfishly I'm wandering what this means for DH and I say if we decide to go down the adoption route, which is a pretty likely option for us . This will likely come up. Will SS ask why we didn't take these kids on ourselves as they are blood relatives? Will the whole scenario go against us as they will see my family as too similar to birth families kids are removed from?
As much as I wanth to help my sister i also want my own chIld.  Her kids are 11 and 15 so I could hardly be their mum . Had they been babies or toddlers I'd take them in a heart beat. I have a good relationship with both kids and they do come and stay with me for weekends from time to time. 
Me and my sister are complete polar opposite people. She lives 3 hrs away and I just do not see us as similar in any way at all. We r like chalk and cheese. 
She HAS made her mistakes and hasn't been a perfect parent. But she's done her best.  
I would be very different from her as a parent but as awful as it sounds I sort of worry that if we were assessed for adoption my sister and I may be tarred with the same brush...
Anyway I kno no one can advise but it's playing on my mind , feels good to get it out.
Xx


----------



## Northern

Kjade what a hard position for you all to be in.  I can't offer any specific advice having not been through it all yet, but I can definitely sympathise with the fear of being tarnished with the brush of other people's situations!  We are very much going with the hope that Social Services are primarily looking to answer the questions: "will a child be safe here" and then "will a child have a happy and secure upbringing here" - if the answer to that is yes then I like to think they will work with us to negotiate through anything else that might come up.  At the end of the day, the issues surrounding us are other people's issues, not our own, and don't reflect on our own way of dealing with things.  I like to think.  It also shows that you have a good understanding of how family breakdowns happen, ie a real world view, and could understand the background adopted kids may come from. 

All my own views and possibly naivety having not been through it yet, but I like to think it can't possibly ALL go against us!  Sounds like a really hard situation for your sister; hope they can offer some kind of support to make a difference. 

Bippy glad the injections are going well and the scan was good, good news about the lining! 

Apples have you sneaked any tests yet?  How are you holding up? 

I've decided not to go to the 1st birthday (haven't told my friend yet but will come up with a good excuse - she doesn't know our situation as we've kept it very private but I know she will understand when I eventually come clean), and will face the pregnant friend on Saturday night.  Have requested a fairly quiet night and think we'll all just get a takeaway or something.  She's not the kind to go on about symptoms/plans etc so hopefully it should be ok, and it'll get it over with for a little while. 

Xxx


----------



## apples2014

Hi quick one. Message later properly. 

I’ve not caved it’s day 8 but I will on Sunday, day 10. I’m so anxious now it’s my 11th ET I’m so frightened about getting the first response test out of the package and doing it. 

I feel really really really worried now! I know I need to be chill but I’m so frightened. 

I am writing an essay for a course I did so I’ve got to get it done before I test. 

Kjade babes will write a better reply later but your sisters situation sounds really challenging and sad, but you’ve answered your own question. You are not the same, you are very different you could not be judged in a social work adoption assessment for your sisters struggles with her birth children. Also massively quickly at the ages they are now due to child attachment (to long to go into really) you would not be judged for not coming forward to be assessed to care for them. 
Plus right now you are having ivf. I am so hopeful it’s gonna Work babe but even if it didn’t you will have Frosties too so it’s some time away before you possibly considering adoption. 
I just saw your post about injectable progesterone. The injections usually begin from ET not EC so if you want them ask your clinic to prescribe them. I take pessaries and a injection each day. But only pessaries b4 ET and both from ET.  Can’t see why your clinic wouldn’t let you if it’s going to make you feel better, it’s worth pestering them about it. Gennet once told me I only needed pessaries but I knew previously it has been kinda low but they said it was fine. I had a progestrone blood test about 11 days after a transfer and it was only just okay and not as high as I would have liked so since then I have both. Hopefully you can too Hun if it makes you feel better it’s worth it. Are you transferring two tomorrow? Xx

Hope everyone else is okay. 
I feel very shaky today. 

Lots of love 
Apples xxx


----------



## K jade

Apples I can only imagine how u are feeling.
For us women who have just seen relentless bfn after bfn the thought of getting the poas out of the wrapper is utterly terrifying beyond belief. I do think we are traumatised by relentless  negatives. 
It's like doing Russian roulette and getting your head blown off every single time.
Just accept that u WILL be scared , there's no getting away from it.
It's so hard to ever imagine seeing those 2 lines. You will never be able to imagine it until you see it.
If it's a negative u will be ok cause it may simply mean this embie wasn't right this time, after all this in a way is your first attempt where the conditions have been 'right' for implantation. if it's a positive it may be the best day of your life
Either way u will face your fears Sunday and u will be ok! 

Thanks both for the advice regarding my sister. You. have confirmed my thoughts but it's good to hear them from other people. Northern u are right it's not fair to suffer the affects of other people's choices and mistakes , we deserve a chance .
Good shout on skipping the kiddies birthday party and I hope tomorrow is ok 

I think I may call clinic regarding the Lubion yes. No doubt they will think I'm being neurotic but oh well. ..


----------



## apples2014

Kjade good luck with ET xxxxxxx

Hi everyone else! 

Not tested, will tomorrow I think. Although I should wait to Monday! 

Love Apples xx


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## K jade

Hi girls all cancelled.  
OHSS is quite bad

I have a beautiful AB hatching blast and another hatching BB. there is a BC but that is borderline whether they can freeze 
All others morula 

Now I dunno what to do about immunes as my humira will expire and I'll need another intralipid 
Right now too ill to care though xx


----------



## apples2014

That’s some wonderful embies there.
But I’m so sorry about the OHSS, you poor thing. 

Gutted for you but being well is the most important thing. Hope you are okay lovely. 
Sending you a massive hug 🤗 

Bippy how are you getting on? 

Big hi to everyone else. Love Apples xx


----------



## Northern

Aww no kjade!! Gutted for you but you’ve got to be sensible and look after yourself, better safe than sorry. That’s good news about the embies though, and who knows, fet can work wonders for some people. Rest up and drink lots! Hope you’re not too ill with it you poor thing xx

Apples thinking of you too, the buildup to testing is just horrible. You will be ok, keep going lovely you’re nearly there xxx


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all

Kjade- gutted- are you feeling terrible? Great news on embies. We had a 4aa blast to freeze on day 6 in our De cycle so you may have some catch up tomorrow. You rest up now. Hope DP is waiting on you. Did he stick to his end of the bargain on EC day?. That's awful about your sister and her children. Does she call the police when they are violent?. Is the one that self harms seeing anyone regularly?.

Apples- totally get that feeling of anxiety about it all. Will you test tomorrow?. Keeping everything crossed for you. Hope you get your assignment done.

Bippy how are you doing?. Whey will transfer be do you think?

Northern hope tonight goes ok with the pregnant friend. Def better to get it over and done with. And totally avoid that random birthday party!!.

Carrie, Fifi, and anyone else, hope you're all doing ok.

Absolutely nothing going on here, emailed the NHS consultant who I'm seeing at the NHS hospital outlining our situation and how long it's taking to be seen for a an appt about the cyst. He'd be delighted to see me in his private clinic (I'm sure he would at £200 a go) but I'll still need to attend the NHS appointment to get on the list for surgery. So it's pointless seeing him and paying. I'm hoping to do my second biopsy this month so at least I'll get scanned then. If it's significantly grown I'll kick off and say I need seeing ASAP. 

Hope everyone has a nice weekend.

X


----------



## K jade

MrsC it will be useful to go back for 2nd biopsy as u never know there may be a change in the cyst . If it's shrunk surley they can drain?? If increased I agree  time to start banging doors down. 
Dam! So is there no way of skirting this waiting list?  That's the problem with an blxxdy lap. They are almost 4 grand. Anything else like a hysto you'd probably bite the bullet and cough up but 4 grand is alot to cough up.
Yes she calls the police on son very frequently. Think she has them on speed dial !  Daughter is under camhs and been referred for cbt 
They have a social worker sister has counselling.  Sisters perception is that all professionals involved blame her for everything 

Feeling OK but stomach very uncomfortable and feels like it's gonna rip every time I move . But really really hungry . Shame as very little food in the house last food shop 2 weeks ago. Dh having to do everything round the house so that's a shock to the system for him. 

I will wait for the phone call from embrologist but in all likelihood I don't think they'll be any to freeze beside the 2. There may have been some catcher uppers on day 6 but it's as I thought.  They don't work Sunday so no chance of any day 6 frosties  

So , just like last time, I have 2 good quality blasts. I have to therefoere conclude that supliments and 'it starts with egg' malarkey haven't really made any  difference so won't be doing it again. Better to eat the chocolate cake and enjoy life !!


----------



## K jade

I take it all back.

I have 4 frosties!!!! 

An AB Hatching , BA ( can't remember if she said hatching, a  BC  and an  early ungraded blast she felt worthy of freezing as it was ticking along. 
Honestly I don't think grading means anything as too many stories of ugly embies making babies and pretty ones going no where.  

So Yeh maybe the book and supliment voodoos do work !


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## apples2014

Really quick as I’m in assignment writing hell and two week wait hell nice!

But yipeeeeeeee Jkade that’s hopefully going to help you feel better too. Fab news. Go the Frosties ❄❄❄❄

Really happy for you lovely one. 

Mrs C fab to hear from you. Biopsy number two is good as you are not just waiting, waiting as it’s constructive but I bet the wait for the appointment about the cyst is so frustrating, great to hear from you.  

Hi everyone else! 
Okay back to this essay. I am NEVER doing anything that involves an essay ever again! 

Love Apples xxx


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## bippy11

oh kjade! Im sorry hun   so disappointing when transfer is cancelled. I am not too surprised though after the amount of follicles you had - that's a lot for the body to cope with, your ovaries would have been about 4 times their normal size. Because of having lots of follicles Ive never been able to do fresh transfer and have had mild OHSS. I know it may not be much comfort now, but I think your embies will have a better chance once your body and hormone levels have settled. So for now, you just enjoy a glass of wine and some chocolate and anything else you want!   And it's good to hear that DP is providing housekeeping service and looking after you - send him out to get you some food   keep drinking plenty water. Are you feeling nauseous at all? I know the stomach feeling, it's horrible, but it will ease off xxx

I can't believe that embies don't get a chance just because it's sunday!! And like you said, what about people where sunday is day 2, 3 or 5 and they need to have them frozen / put back in at that stage?? It may be that it was the same with Sundays at my NHS hospital, luckily our NHS EC wasn't affected, but I can't believe that something like the fact that it's a sunday means that something so important that we put months (and years) and our hearts and souls in to can then just be discarded like that.  

Northern hope you have a good evening with your mates and there's no pregnancy chat and plenty of yummy take away!  

MrsC nice to hear from you. I can't believe you still haven't even got a date for an appointment about cyst! Keep pushing them, sometimes the only way is to make yourself so annoying to them that they do what you want just so you will go away! Although that's exhausting and it shouldn't have to be that way. When do you think your second Coventry biopsy will be? Itll be good for you to get a scan and find out what's happened with the cyst. Have you heard back re your first biopsy yet or do they do both results together? Im hoping to get my result before I would need to start taking steroids so it can help me decide whether to take them, but it'll be touch and go, so if I don't have them in time then I will just take the steroids this time round. 

We had another scan yesterday and things hadn't progressed as much as we'd hoped, so things seem to be back in line with the slow pace that my body usually takes. Never mind, the lining and follicle had still grown a bit. I think transfer will be in about a week and a half if things go to plan. Currently injecting merional in the evening and cetrotide in the morning. Bit worried because the trigger may now fall on Wednesday, when we are going to a show - I booked this about 3.5 months ago for DHs birthday present. Although I generally have stopped planning things ahead as they always end up clashing with some treatment thing, I told myself surely a random wednesday evening will be ok.. and now we may have to trigger then at a specific time so I just have to hope it will fit with the interval or when it's finished. That'll teach me to try and plan things!  

Apples got everything crossed for you to tomorrow!!! Please please please let it be 11th time lucky!!!   xxx


----------



## bippy11

kjade yippeee!   just posted and then saw your update. That's great news and hopefully that will help you with the disappointment of not being able to transfer immediately. Congratulations hun   xxx

Apples you're amazing writing an essay day before testing, my mind would not be capable of that! But I guess it's one way to keep occupied and make the time pass! x


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## fifibell

Hey everyone 
Haven't been on in a while but been reading posts. Good news on the frosties kjade sorry your transfer had to be delayed hope you recover quickly. 
Apples almost to the end if the 2 week wait you must be so nervous.

Bippy northern ms c carrie and everyone else hope you are well.

I've not much news been on steroids now for 2 weeks and taking progynova as well. Been doing okay getting ready to fly out to Cyprus next Wednesday.
Also been looking into a possible career change feel like I need a change of direction.  Hope you're having a good weekend.


----------



## K jade

Bippy sorry u felt a bit disappointed at scan. Was it regarding your lining?  What were the measurements? 
What show r u seeing? I love a good show. Take your trigger with u and do it in the toilets.you'll just have to chamber over people if it's not in the interval. They'll cope. Your right it's horrid to miss out 

Fifi that's exciting your flying out weds. Are you doing FET? Or tandem?  It'll be lovely and warm hope u have a nice hotel booked and few days relaxing. 

Apples I have an essay due Friday I'm dreading it. Why did I sign up to studying again .
I'm not sure . I hate it. 

So thinking ahead I'll have to go back to dr G and c if he advises another humira 
Then I might opt to transfer the 2 goodies  as single FETs  then the lesser ones together as a double FET. 
I hope one of these frosties is a baby


----------



## Carrie88

Hey lovely ladies,

Sorry I've not been on for a few weeks.
I've been really struggling.
I'll catch up with you at some point today  xxxx


----------



## bippy11

Fifi nice to hear from you. How are you feeling on the steroids? Exciting that your are nearing transfer. How is your lining doing? Progynova never worked well for me, but I know it does for many women. Are you timing your progesterone / transfer to fit with your ERA result? 

Carrie! Lovely to hear from you, I've been wondering how you are doing hun. I'm sorry to hear you've been struggling, it's completely understandable and normal after the disappointment of a negative. Have you thought about what's next or are you just taking some time out to recover yourself? Big hugs to you   xxx

kjade my lining just hadn't grown much from the previous scan, but my body is usually quite slow. Hopefully will show a bit more growth at tomorrow's scan and then we can get a date set for transfer. It sounds like a good idea for you to transfer your two top grade ones as single transfer. 
The show is quite random - we're going to see the Meat Loaf musical, haha! My DH and some of his friends have a thing about Meat Loaf, so I organised for 6 of us to go to it. Should be fun   hopefully I can manage the trigger in the toilets - sometimes it has to be done, even though I don't really like toilet injections! 

Apples we listened to Mr Mindful today and Im going to continue, think it will be good for helping me through the next little while! So so hoping you will have good news today hun   xxx


----------



## apples2014

Fifi it’s lovely to hear from you. 
So next week you fly over? 
How are you feeling? Lots of love and it’s great to hear from you. 

Carrie xxxx I struggle so much after the BFN it’s so lonely and sad. I only feel better with a plan but after last August I was just so sad. I just mean have so much empathy. Big cuddles. Be great to hear about what’s next when you know. 

Bippy ha ha meatloaf the musical. Brilliant. I’ve heard it’s good I think doing your trigger in the loo at a theatre is great. You will laugh I’m sure. I’m really pleased you like Mr Mindful. I’m finding it so good. I paid for the two week wait part as that isn’t free like the rest and it’s very good. 

Kjade you feeling better? 
I like the chances of your Frosties babe. You will be all well and have nice well body to put them back in. 
Aw studying why!! We already did enough to be social workers why more! I stupidly thought the course looked so great I didn’t mind about the essay but now I do! 
I’m really lucky one of my besties moved back to Wales she’s in Cardiff actually randomly but she’s a proof reader/copy writer and part time writer so she’s been a star and is reading it for me today as I couldn’t look at it any more and I’m sure the grammar is shocking. 


Hi northern how was night out? Hi  Mrs C and everyone else. 

So I don’t really know how to express this but it’s positive and it’s really positive, dark quickly positive. I’ve never seen this before. I’ve never been here before! 

This is embryo transfer number 11 and it’s transfer number 6 of donor embies. 
I’m happy but it’s obviously surreal as well. 
I think let’s just have a tiny quiet golf clap as I’m not really going to take it in until I’ve seen two good blood test results. So I will go get one tomorrow and weds! And then we go from there!
I always promised myself if I got here I would enjoy it but it feels so surreal and there are so many massive milestones to get through ah! 
But it is a good day! 

I have a lot to thank Prof Brosen’s at Coventry for. 
DH did a silly impression of our fav consultant at Gennet - he said good news but you still should have done a medicated FET! 
But I’m so pleased I took Prof Brosen’s advice and pushed for a natural FET as after having the results TWICE that my uterus was NOT receptive from taking the medicated (oestrogen) it only made sense to try natural FET. Stats wise medicated FET is better success, but it just didn’t work for me! 

I feel good but I can’t really take it in. 
Please let everything be okay!
Please! 

Thanks for all the nice posts. I was a wreck yesterday! I actually couldn’t even do the test this morning properly (I did a wee in an old plastic bowl and waited until I feel calmer and plonked the test in). Am a loon! But people say about all the symptoms and all I have had is funny boobs but they always are in two week wait (progesterone) but that’s it. Have been very nervous. 

Love Apples xxx


----------



## K jade

OMFG  apples I'm dancing up and down my Bleep living room right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the best news EVER!!!!

You did it !!!! And you did it off your own back and your own research 

WHAAAAAA! !!!!!!!


----------



## apples2014

Kjade you are so lovely thank you 

I just cried actually because I never thought I would have a dancing 🍌 banana (omg am so daft). Thank you. 

Your research too babes. You helped me so much. When I joined this conversation on this thread at the end of last summer I was so lost literally and you PM me about natural FET but I had no confidence about anything then! 

Thanks so much. 

Oh please let it all be okay! 

Xxxxxxx


----------



## K jade

I really think you have a good chance of a smooth journey hun
THIS receptivity thing was your nemesis. 
You don't have immune probs plus used DS +DE so I think your chances of everything progressing nicely are brilliant. 
So exciting !!!!! Plus good dark line on a poas test which btw aren't even designed for ivf patients. Will you do beta? Or head straight to scan.? 

Haha Bippy I love meatloaf.  Saw a documentary about him the other day he just seemed so nice and I love his voice.  Think he still does shows in America but not so many nowadays as his knees are bad


----------



## Angedelight

Whoop whoop Apples!!!! Let this be the start of good things for our thread! Amazing news!!! 💕💕💕


----------



## Angedelight

Also, are we going to do a May meet up?
X


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## bippy11

Apples this is amazing wonderful happy news!!! oh congrats hun, so happy to see this   lots of dancing bananas for you           I know there are still a lot of hurdles, but you have to enjoy this moment now for as long as you can and let some of the pressure lift and breathe a big happy sigh of relief as this is a major hurdle you have overcome and hopefully everything will run smoothly from now on. So happy for you and DH is too - I told him about you and that you were testing today so we have both really been hoping for you   yipppeee   xxx


----------



## Northern

Aaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhhhhh Apples this is just the best news EVER!!!!!!!! You can’t imagine how happy and excited and thrilled I am for you, just amazing and I have the BEST feeling about these embies for you - ever since you mentioned the green eyed donor - this is absolutely your time and just goes to show that sticking to your guns and gut instinct just pays off. 
Omg here are some so deserved dancing bananas!!! 
                                

Enjoy every second lovely, you’ve waited and worked so long for this    
Xxxxx


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## Roxychick1976

Apples this is just wonderful news! So happy for you after the very longgggggg struggle! If I knew how to dancing bananas you would have loads from me xxx❤


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## K jade

MrsC defo I'd like too.
Im Sure others are up for it as well. Be nice to go somewhere and sit outside if we get some sunshine! Spring will be in full swing hopefully. 

Carrie hope your holding up hun sorry you've been having such a hard time of late. We  are always here to chat , moan and RANT to. Nothings off limits  

Apples how u doing today ?

Afm I feel totally better . Tbh I'm well over the worst. 
But upon  the nurses advice at the clinic I'm off work. My manger then has the audacity to ring me saying I was menna do x y and z this week and I was booked  onto training costing 2 grand!! and  what an inconvenience  oh dear who's gonna do that now...
Er...I don't care  

Weighting up what to do about gorgy...see him in person.?.telephone appoint. .?..just email the nurse saying what do I do........
Mmmmmm. ...decisions...


----------



## apples2014

Hello thank you so much for all the love and kind messages. I’m really touched. 

I feel totally surreal but am okay. 
Did not get a lot of sleep last night. Brain is quite   And 

I have had the blood test hcg results back now. 
Today is day 11 after transfer and the result is 285. 

I now just have the hope and pray for some doubling for Weds. 
I’ve booked to have second hcg weds AM and also progestrone blood test as well. Just want to know it’s okay. 

Kjade if he takes calls then I would book in to have a phone call with him. Can you plan a ET for next cycle ? 

Bippy what’s the latest? How’s it going. 

Really thank you so much for the posts. I’m so grateful. 

Love Apples xxx


----------



## K jade

Oh apples that's such a fantastic number! 
Do not stress I know it's hard but you've got this !  
xx


----------



## bippy11

Apples I can imagine it must feel really surreal. Good that you were able to get a good night's sleep. Fingers crossed for doubling numbers on Wednesday! 

KJade how unprofessional of your manager! Try not to let it get to you, you need to rest and get yourself well and recovered, your body has been through a lot. Glad you're feeling a bit better. Do you have to pay for a phone call with Dr G? Are you still taking your steroids hun? You need to step them down gradually, you can't just stop. Dr G should give you a plan for how to do this. 

We've had a bit of a mixed day - got Coventry results back - uNK cells are in normal range - quite low. So Im glad about that, I think I will give the steroids a miss this cycle then and our Dr agrees. We've got a phone call with Dr Brosens to discuss on Thursday. Today's scan showed no progress since Friday, which was a bit disappointing. We're doubling our dose of merional now, so hopefully that will get the follicle growing, which in turn should get my lining growing. Means I won't have to do trigger at the show on Wednesday at least, just a normal merional injection, which will be fine. Just really hoping we will be able to go ahead with transfer this cycle. 

Id be up for a May meeting - what do you think about meeting at Fertility Fest on Saturday 12th May? www.fertilityfest.com


----------



## rubyring

Hi everyone, just popping on to say a huge congratulations to Apples!!!! Fantastic news! Enjoy the surreal feeling


----------



## K jade

Bippy good you've got your quenby results ,  and that they are normal . 
So did u take prednisolone with your last cycle then? Good idea to try without them. 
Sorry your lining is playing stubborn again . What merinol dose are you on?  I take it you've tried all the beetroot juice / acupuncture / rasberry leaf tea voodoos?  I kno many of them r probably just old wives tales tbh  
What measurement is it now?. I do think some ladies can only get it to a certain thickness and that's OK.
I got into double figures on my cycle just gone.  Thought thats a first. However sure as hell when I triggered it was back at 9.something so appeared to have Decreased can you beleive ! Not sure what that was about 

Yeh I'm gradually tapering off the pred. Down to 15mg now. Still on clexane. Dr said keep on it it'll help the ohss. 
Yeh dr G charges same 4 telephone call as appointment in person. 
It's so much easier face 2 face I may just bite the bullet and do that 1 
Xx


----------



## bippy11

Hi Kjade, yeah I thought it was very quick for the results - only 3 weeks. I took pred on my previous 3 cycles, 2 were negative and 1 was positive. (last time it really affected my sleep, it didn't so much the first two times). 
Im now on 150 merional (was 75) - hopefully that'll do the trick. Lining is just under 7. Id like to get it to around 8 before we trigger and start progesterone. 
Im not doing accupuncture, I tried it for one cycle but found it a bit much with all the extra appointments (and cost!) and got BFN anyway. Ive been doing lots of yoga though  

I would go for a face to face meeting if it's the same cost - I mean I know you will have the extra cost and time of travel, but I agree it is easier face to face. Did you have any side effects from the pred? Its so annoying how long it takes to come off it. 

Fifi all the best for your trip to Cyprus tomorrow, hope transfer goes well! x

Are any of you interested in Fertility Fest? x


----------



## apples2014

I know nothing about all this!

I’m very worried. It was 285 Monday. 

It’s 452 today. My clinic told me it’s okay but re do bloods Friday. 

This is so scary. I feel so worried

Apples x


----------



## K jade

Apples DONT stress about the numbers.
That's increased nicely 
In only 48 hrs. 
By 72 hrs I predict it will have doubled .
and that's the guidance. Beta doubling every 48-72 hours .
But it's just guidance and plenty of babies are born from low or slow rising betas too

Xx


----------



## Northern

Aww Apples please try not to worry, especially if they have said it's ok.  Imagine it's any one of the hundreds of people we have read of on the threads, and imagine what you would say to someone else.  There's also a thread somewhere for hcg numbers, maybe you could see there what others' numbers are like (though wouldn't want that to panic you even more).  As long as it's rising then it's a good sign, regardless of doubling.  Keep calm and get retested in a few days.  We're all rooting for you!!   xxx


----------



## K jade

Also it doesnt have to DOUBLE in 48 hrs
Only rise by 60% which yours has I think 
([email protected] at maths sorry)


----------



## apples2014

Thank you. 

I had to deal with this being a Work I’m so anxious now but I’m not crying but I’m really worried 

Thank you so much for the quick replies. You have no idea how much I needed to read. 

My lovely serum Ivf guru mate texted me and suggested it could be a vanishing twin which could make sense. 

I’m sure I’ve read once FET betas lower maybe but i could be clutching at straws on that one. 

My clinic have told me to not worry and repeat bloods on Friday so that’s all I can do. 

We supposed to be going to see a band tomorrow that we booked in December and I just feel wretched now. But I’ve just got to be brave and hold it together now. 

I’ve taken Friday off I can’t deal with this at work. It’s too much. 

Thanks sorry this is all about me. 
I’m a bit of a anxious mess! 

Love Apples xxx


----------



## K jade

Apples good idea to take Friday off u should be resting up

Hope your feeling a bit calmer about things.
The worrying never ends does it.
I noticed on another thread u put that your betas were taken 47 hrs apart not 48.
I was going to ask if you'd done the second one slightly earlier funnily enough 
Your definitely on track for a doubling number at 70 hrs 

Xx


----------



## apples2014

Thanks Kjade 

I had such an afternoon was PANIC then thought narrrr it’s okay be calm. Then I was really choked and had a panic again then someone I know who has had a lot of ivf pointed out it was 47 hours so I calmed. Then I worried again. It’s been an evening! I’m basically a weirdo after all this IVF! 

Thanks so much babe. So you are properly correct as I checked out that calculator thingie the lovely girl on the other thread mentioned for me to look at and I’m at 60 per cent so even though this is proper angst time still I’m about where I should be (just sorry to still sound worried but I’m literally just where should be nothing more) but this is okay isn’t it! 
Plus I’ve had a word with myself. We can’t do anything else other than wait and try keep calm. 
We are going to see Arcade Fire at Wembley Arena tomorrow night (seated tickets) so even though I earlier thought Nooo I don’t wanna go out! 
It will do us good, the distraction. Plus I saw them once years ago at Brixton and they were so good. I’ve got Friday off now. 

Okay so really enough of me but thanks so much. I was so flappy earlier! 

How’s everyone else? What’s new? Everyone okay?

Hope Meatloaf is good tonight ha ha 

Lots of love 

Apples xxxx


----------



## bippy11

Hi Apples, oh Im sorry to hear all the worry you have hun. I've been there, it's horrible. But I do think by the sounds of it your numbers a fine and rising at the right rate. I know it's impossible not to worry, but it really might all be fine and hopefully you will get some reassurance tomorrow. Enjoy your gig this evening - I love Arcarde Fire, we also went to see them at Brixton some years ago   It'll be good for taking your mind off it xxx  

Meat Loaf was funny   there were some amazing singers, the story was a bit random at times, but overall the show was great. Before it started I told them I had to do an injection in the interval and they kindly showed us to a private section where there was a toilet we could use to do it, so that was all fine. 

Our scan yesterday was disappointing. There are now 2 follicles around 15 mm and lining was 7.3, which is ok but it wasn't trilaminar. We'll have a final scan to decide on Saturday, if it's not trilaminar then we will have to abandon this cycle. Really really hope we don't have to do that, but Im worried that might end up being the case. I hate delays   

Re Fertility Fest - sorry I know I keep going on about it and no one is replying about it so maybe you guys are not interested. But if anyone does decide to go, then I will be there on the Saturday (which we have tickets for) and on the Sunday as a volunteer helping out. Would love to meet up if any of you go so let me know. You can see details of what's on each day on the website x


----------



## Northern

Morning all  

Apples hope you're feeling a bit calmer this morning, it really does sound like you're on track and hopefully tomorrow will give a bit of reassurance.  It's impossible not to worry and we're experts at it after so long trying but do try and enjoy the moment too if you can, you're actually pregnant lovely!!  Glad you're off tomorrow, you've got enough on your mind without trying to focus at work xxx

Kjade I read on the other thread that gp has sorted you out with sick note, what a relief!  Honestly there's so much running around with ivf, what might seem a little thing to a doctor actually is the world of help to us when there's so much going on and it all means so much.  Are you starting to feel any better with the ohss?  Are they going to scan you again to see how it's going? 

Sorry Bippy!  I actually did look at the website and it looks really interesting - didn't quite make it back on here to reply about it though   I've often said once all this is over, I'd like to do some awareness building and speak out a bit more about it, and it looks like that's exactly how the festival started and all in a really positive way.  I started writing a bit after our 4th cycle and keep adding bits here and there.  I have this little fantasy that when I'm off on maternity/adoption leave (which WILL happen), I will write it properly and put it out into the world to do my little bit.  I don't actually know yet re plans for May but I will definitely try and make it down if I can, will let you know. 
Glad they were so nice to you last night and the show was good.  Fingers crossed for the lining on Saturday - really hope you get the go-ahead xxx

I'm ok but have struggled a bit this week.  Seeing the pregnant friend on Saturday was ok at the time but I didn't give my usual Oscar-winning performance of happiness; she had this framed picture of the scan on the mantelpiece and it kept catching my eye, and it's the rubbing of the bump that really does me.  By the time we got home I was pretty down, I've been doing so well at looking forwards and I do genuinely have hope again, but it just brought back how hard this has all been and how I miss my little-ones-that-weren't.  I couldn't help myself going over every cycle and thinking about what I could/should have done differently to make it work. 
Also, completely stupidly, I was equally upset that on Saturday morning I had my hair dyed and the hairdresser misunderstood my 'mid brown please' request and it's come out nearly black.  I hate it.  On Sunday I couldn't tell you which I was more upset about - aftermath of the pregnant friend or my stupid hair, how ridiculous is that!?! What an idiot    there were tears about both    have spent the week washing my hair hundreds of times to try and take some of the edge off haha. 

I am human again now though which is a relief!
Xx


----------



## K jade

Aw northern seeeeeriously! !
I think u would have coped fine seeing your m8 sat if it wasn't for the bump rubbing and framed scan pic. 
A framed scan pic. I don't know. I'm a bit of an old dear at heart and the world has moved on in ways beyond me. medical ultrasound imagery has now become a fashion acessory and half the time people just do things now to jump on a bandwagon with no clue of what they are doing or why they're doing it .
Pat on the back for  you for getting it over with. 
Having been on this road a long time I really think the most important thing is self care. I haven't made any contact with bro and SIL caused I've selfishly decided that my wellbeing is more important. If / when I visit it'll be on my terms when I'm good and ready. 

Sorry Bippy I did have a look. My knee  jerk thought was I don't think I can as all too close to home and i may cry LOL but when I looked at the link I thought actually it looked  really good and very interesting. 
Anyway I'm definitely up for meeting in May so I'll go with the flow and if others are interested I'm in. If not then happy to meet in b'ham as before. 
sorry your lining isn't as u hoped.that's a  decent measurement though so i do hope your not cancelled . I kno what u mean about acupuncture I did it for both ivf transfers and got nadda.  
I kno I mentioned before but I guess u tried heat packs and rasberry leaf tea. ?? What about beetroot juice.  That's supposed to be more potent than pomegranate . I kno u lining ladies are savvy to all the tricks so I'm guessing you could write a long list of the things you've probably already tried. 

OK so will need to make contact with Mr G this week or early next week. D was like can't u just speak on phone? But I really feel I need to see him. 
Anyway I also braced him for the fact we'll probs need to cough up 800 quid for another humira shot and he was like Yeh that's fine 
Phew! I also had some stern words with him on just how unbelievably lucky we have been with our treatment which has so far all been covered by the NHS and right now our tab runs into the tens of thousands. 
He honestly had no clue of the financial black hole ivf is and I told him that many couples have to remortgage their house to pay for the treatment we've had.
The cakes I bought in 4 the Dr's and nurses on easter Monday when I had EC is quite literally the only money I've spent on my clinic so even if I don't have success with them I'm just so grateful i got the chance to try.


----------



## bippy11

aw Northern, seeing a pregnant friend is bound to be difficult and bring about thoughts of what could have been for you. It doesn't take away from that you have been doing well and looking forward, but alongside that of course there is still a sadness about past failed treatment. I don't know if that will ever go away, but hopefully with time and as you move on with your life, it will gradually become less painful. The rubbing of bumps really gets me as well, I just can't deal with that, it stirs such a painful longing inside me. You're so strong and doing really well so you should be proud of yourself for that. And hopefully youll get used to your hair, it sounds like quite a drastic change but Im sure you still look beautiful   xxx 

Re Fertility Fest - cool that you might be interested in coming, it'd be lovely to catch up with you there. (And kjade you too - and if you cry that's ok, there is a quiet room where you can go if you need a time out, I cried a bit last time, everyone who's there have been / are going through it and understand). It's a 'safe' space, and overall it's very positive and interesting and liberating) After we went last time it inspired me to write a bit, which I found helpful although I don't think it's for public consumption! I look forward to reading your piece one day Northern!   

I haven't tried things like beetroot juice and rasberry leaf tea.. Im just not sure I buy in to it.. I havent been able to find any kind of evidence that it would help.. but thank you for the suggestion, maybe Ill see if I can get some today anyway. I've been eating healthy, cutting out sugar and off the booze (except last night before the show when I had a couple of glasses of wine as I felt so despondent after the scan. Oops  ). My lining has usually always been trilaminar, so I'm not sure why it's not playing ball, Dr wondered if it could be because I had the biopsy last cycle. Anyway I keep my fingers crossed for Saturday even though it's got me down a bit, I was so ready to get on with this. 

kjade, well done for explaining the costs to D, it's a good step that he understands the costs involved. I think you should go and see Dr G if that's what you would prefer to do. It's so sweet that you bought cakes for the drs and nurses. xxx


----------



## bippy11

kjade Ive been to get some beetroot juice and raspberry leaf tea!   x


----------



## K jade

Haha !well  done! 
Actually I just saw some beetroot and apple juice in asda and thought of u.
Tbh it looked really nice. Very sweet and refreshing .
Was half tempted to buy some myself .
Rasberry leaf tea is not so nice I hear. But no pain no gain xx


----------



## Loonytoon

apples2014 said:


> I know nothing about all this!
> 
> I'm very worried. It was 285 Monday.
> 
> It's 452 today. My clinic told me it's okay but re do bloods Friday.
> 
> This is so scary. I feel so worried
> 
> Apples x


Ladies I'm really sorry to butt into your thread but apples honey I've been trying to pm you since yesterday. But your inbox is full! I hope you are ok and I second everything the gals have said to you wrt it being less than the 48-72 hours. That's exactly what I was thinking or else 2 tried to implant but the stronger one is hanging around for good. Wishing and hoping and praying for great jump in hcg tomorrow &#128536;


----------



## Northern

Thinking of you today Apples - let us know how you get on xxx


----------



## K jade

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrant altert 
So twingate didn't end up viewing our house after all .
However another couple came instead and today the estate agent gave me feedback that they've decided not to move after all for at least a year as 'she's pregnant ' so can't manage it right now .
Felt like telling the estate agent 'look it's none of my blxxdy business that some random woman I don't even know is preggers' 
I really didn't need feedback from u hun . Had they put an offer in then of course ring me to tell me. If I hear nothing I assume they are  not interested in my house .
To be  honest this isn't the first woman I've come across who seems to be a bit of a  'pregnancy broadcaster' 
Those ridiculous women who love telling other women that random people you don't even know /like or care about are pregnant .
Its not even that I'm jealous. I just don't care and your wasting my time and your breath even talking to me.

Anyway that's that off my chest.
The good news is 4 viewings are booked in tomorrow on my house and we've seen something we like too.

Apples very much thinking of u today and I'm feeling hopeful that your going to get a reassuring number later on
Xx


----------



## bippy11

Fingers crossed for you today Apples! Really hope youll get some good numbers to put your mind at rest. We are all wishing and hoping for you   xx

Fifi, how are you doing? Hope everything has gone / goes well with your transfer. xx

Kjade how annoying you are getting all these unwelcome pregnancy news about random people! Hopefully some of your viewings tomorrow will result in a buyer, preferably not a pregnant one!   The raspberry leaf tea is ok, but the beetroot juice is pretty yuck. I am going to make some roasted beetroot for dinner this evening and eat them instead because that's delicious  

We had our follow up call with Dr Brosens last night, very interesting. Although my uNKcells are in the normal range, they are very low (0.96). Some of their recent research is pointing towards that women with very low level uNKcells are more likely to experience miscarriage. (as the uNKcells have a function to perform to help the lining be in the right condition to support a pregnancy). So it seems taking steroids for the last 3 cycles could have been quite detrimental in my case. Although my blood immunes were slightly high, which is what we based it on. Anyway he says that it can vary from cycle to cycle and it is only women who have a persistently low level who are more likely to miscarry, which is why they have introduced the second biopsy to determine whether it changes or whether it is persistently low. It wouldn't surprise me if mine is persistently low, with 3 miscarriages under our belt, maybe this can go some way to explaining it. I don't know if it can also be a reason for implantation failure, I have emailed him to ask about that. Hmm very interesting, we will discuss with our Dr tomorrow. If scan shows trilaminar lining then we will go ahead with transfer, Dr Brosens agreed that further biopsies shouldn't delay treatment. But if we can't go ahead, then I will do the second biopsy this cycle instead. I still really hope we will be able to go ahead and transfer! 

Also - if it is the case that uNKcells are persistently low, he suggested a biopsy in the transfer cycle before ovulation, to 'stress' the cells and thereby increase the level of uNKcells activity. I suppose this makes sense, although I would be a bit nervous about messing with the lining during the actual transfer cycle. Again, something to discuss with our Dr, I would like his opinion on it.


----------



## apples2014

I’m going to write a proper reply later on 
Bippy sounds like you’ve got lots of food for thought there though! I hope you get good news re transfer lovely. 

Kjade I’m gutted the house selling buying this is so frustrating and what you are saying is properly annoying. You do not need to know all that! Hope ooh are feeling better hun x

Northern I’m going to write a proper post later but thanks for the lovely thoughts. 

Guys I’m in the game! 
After 11 transfers I am in the game. It’s come back today at 968! 
Relieved does not even cut it! 

Arcade Fire were amazing and I’m so pleased I went out last night. This week has been an rollercoaster! 
Obvs loads of hurdles to go but this is a massive milestone! 

Love Apples xx


----------



## Northern

Hooorrrraaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy!!!!!!!                     

SO relieved for you!
Xxxx


----------



## K jade

Omg that's amazing news apples I'm so pleased for u. I just had an inclining things would be ok for u and I'm soooooooo relieved that I was right      

Wow that's really interesting Bippy .
Please let us know what prof B says tomorow.  
I thought very low was more linked to implantation failure and high to m/c but I don't even know why I thought that and where I got it from.
Have u had a scratch before? That's known to be used to bring the uNKs 'up' so I've a feeling he'll suggest that. *** oh sorry just re read that he is suggesting that via a biopsy dou ***

Incidentally I've a feeling my uNK result is wrong. 
Mine were  2.02% '7 days after ovulation' as it says on the results slip.
However it wasnt 7 days after actual ovulation. It was 7 days after I did a positive ovulation TEST. 
So in reality it was about 5 days after  ov I think .
I'm not sure they realised this at the clinic .
Anyway it doesn't make much difference in the grand scheme of things as it still means my results were in normal parameters but slightly 'higher normal ' than originally thought


----------



## QWERTY9876

Dancing bananas on here too for you darling! So so so pleased for you! 
Xxxx


----------



## bippy11

yey Apples that's fantastic news! Hooray!!!       (it's quite funny there seems to be some issue with the dancing bananas on my computer, they are not dancing anymore, just standing still with their hands in the air    strange as the other things still move). Anyway enough about dancing bananas! That's just wonderful happy news Apples, enjoy the feeling! Do you have an early scan booked yet or will you do that? 

yes kjade, Ill keep you posted re low uNKcells - it's not prof B tomorrow, but my usual Dr, but it'll be good to get his opinion on all this. I've had many scratches before, but not ever in the transfer cycle - what prof B is suggesting is to do it day 8 - 11 (or maybe a bit later with my as my cycles are a bit longer than most). So he is saying to do it on the transfer cycle when the lining is building, but before ovulation.


----------



## apples2014

Hello! 

Aw guys thanks for the posts. 

Yesterday was a daze. But I’m so relieved. 

I know rationally as it has risen by 60 percent on weds I was hopefully okay but it really was a whole new world of worry so the result yesterday was the biggest relief ever. I love all my dancing bananas     

Obvs lots of hurdles still but this is a massive milestone ah! 
Me and DH moved onto donor options (as in complete donor embies) in May 2016 so give or take a few weeks it’s still taken us two years to crack this and as you know this is embryo transfer number 11 but I have always promised myself if I got the BFP I would do all I could to enjoy it and be in the moment. That went right out the window this week after that second hcg and I’ve been really worried. But I’ve had a word with myself because I was so dark for the last year after all the chemicals and I would have chopped off an arm for a rising hcg so now I’m going to try really hard to relax. 

I’m back to listening to the mindful ivf guy. He’s quite helpful really ha! But that’s an absolute enough of me going on about me. I think what I’m trying to say is I’m so relieved but what I’m really saying is I’m so blinking (swear word would be preferred here) grateful for this thread. I’ve been really down and not at all okay this last year to the point that I couldn’t post on my clinic thread as I was just so miserable so thank you all heaps and heaps and heaps xxxx

Bippy so much to take it. 
Obvs I’m bias as Prof Brosen’s has totally cracked my 10 in a row implantation failures right now so I really am grateful to him and I’m pleased I listened to his advice. 
Re the scratch in a cycle I’ve heard of this heaps babes. My buddy when we was over in Athens (3 years ago now) has a scratch by Penny before ET. It’s a hysto or a full on biopsy that is not advised in same as ET so a scratch is really okay if you decide you want to, it’s okay. 
The NK cells in lining results change so much. 
I’ve had one result of 15!!! But only once. Then I had one around 5.9 then I had a couple at 1 and below 1 my recent on was 3.9! Bonkers! 
I originally took my info from Brosen’s but did what my consultant said and then after some more failed cycles I decided to actually go with what Brosen’s suggested as he said if I had a BFN to call Kerri and book in to have the biopsy again for free. So there are options there. 
I found not knowing what to do or who to follow really hard so I hope my waffle in some way helps you babe. Good luck today xxx

Northern I think you are a star and a lovely friend to your mates and sorry this is a long (week) over due but sounds like you handled last weekend really well. 
It does leave us with sadness afterwards I know. 
I’m always so happy for my mates but I’ve had so many occasions where seeing them has triggered so much in me. I remember my acupuncture lady actually banning me from a close friends baby shower when I was crying saying how much I didn’t want to go and I couldn’t hack it but she’s a good person and I’m happy for her but it was going to be too hard for me. I didn’t go. I felt good with that decision. You are proper fab Northern. The adoption social workers will be looking for your ability to reflect loads and you are so good at that. 
I need to go use my national trust membership now ha ha xx

Kjade that’s good about the ranges even if higher into ‘normal’ that’s really great babe. 
What is the situation now after the OHSS? 
Are you seeing Gorgy in person and has your clinic said how long to wait b4 FET? I’m sorry about the house again too it’s proper frustrating babe. 


Big hello to everyone else. 

Bippy I really can’t make the 12th I had a look and it looks really interesting though. 

Lots of love

Apples xxxxxxx


----------



## bippy11

We won't be transferring this month, the lining hasn't really done much for the last week and only very faintly trilaminar. So gutted, even though I kind of expected it was most likely coming, I still hoped that it would miraculously look good today so we could go ahead   Im just so fed up with bleepy delays, we always have delays, everything always takes so long with my stupid body! Aaaargh I want to scream!!!!!

Thanks Apples, it's really helpful to know about your varying uNKcells results - you've had so many biopsies! And they varied so much! And also good to know that the scratch before ovulation in transfer cycle is a done thing.. I hadn't heard about it before and it makes me a bit nervous, and that's what my doc felt too. But we'll now use this cycle for another biopsy, will trigger tonight and then we'll see what that shows. 

Apples so happy for you hun, with the reassurance of your hcg numbers try your best to relax and enjoy it for now. There will be more worries of course, but it's amazing that you've got to this stage!!! xxx


----------



## K jade

Ah Bippy no!
A cancelled cycle is such a blow .  I know  u  want to have your best possible lining for your embies but it doesn't take away from how diisaponting it is ! Time,  money, emotional investment.  
Gutted 4 u hun.
Can they put the meds up next time to give things a bit more of a push? Your on 150 merinol right?  Or is that max with stim lining building? 

Apples I don't think the worrying ever ends .my friend in work is big pregnant through ivf she says every day is a battle with anxiety and terror . Just another thing us ivf ladies endure along with everything else ! 
The legacy of infertility 

My brother text me today asking how my operation went and have i recovered.  Me having Ec then ohss has somehow translated back to  my family that I've had an ' operation' and been really ill in hospital.  Then he said he was really sorry about all my struggles with ivf and he understands me not wanting to hear about the baby , he'll keep a low profile .
I sort of felt as sorry for him as I do for myself really.  
I have absolutely no idea what I'm gonna reply back.  

AF arrived today bang on time as 2 weeks after trigger. Absolute agony had to take coedine. Have to keep reminding myself it's NOT a bfn bleed I did not transfer.  
I guess I stop clexane now? 

Someone made an offer on the house so I expect we'll accept although  a little lower than we wud have liked. 
And just eaten a whole titamussu  

Xx


----------



## Northern

Oh no Bippy that’s disappointing   was hoping it would have picked up a bit and you’d be ok to transfer. I know it’s for the best but honestly the amount of waiting with Ivf is hard enough, it’s all waiting waiting waiting and just when you think something’s happening you have to wait some more! How bl*ody annoying. I’ve heard a few interesting tips for lining building - viagra was one (!) and I think there’s an oestrogen gel that can help too. 

Kjade good that someone’s made an offer, is it still enough for you to work with and find somewhere else? Do you have your eye on anything? 
Isn’t it strange how infertility gets ‘translated’ into real world language- just goes to show how low people’s general awareness is of the extent some people suffer with it and the whole range of issues covered by “infertility” or ivf. Glad he’s text you tho and recognised that it’s hard for you. Just fill him in a bit (maybe suggest googling ohss just to freak him out a bit!) and thank him for keeping the baby stuff a bit quiet. 

Aw apples you always have something nice to say, thanks hun   I think I was just hoping it wouldn’t bring it all back as much as it did but there will always be some sadness there and sometimes it’s brought back to the surface. Am ok again now - have been busy painting the kitchen this weekend as part of the great moving forward plan  . So glad your numbers are looking so good and you can hopefully start to enjoy it a little, there’s so much worry but think of how far you’ve come! Have you booked an early scan yet? 

Fifibell if you’re reading how did you get on in Cyprus? 

Carrie how are you doing? 
Xxx


----------



## Angedelight

Hi ladies

I've been on nights all week so have just been reading along but been too wiped out to write a decent reply. Getting too old for all this shift work!

Apples- I'm so pleased your HCG is doing as it should. Get that early scan booked in now!. I honestly think pregnancy after multiple IVF treatments is going to be hard and anxiety provoking. Imagine being a normal fertile and thinking 'oh my period is late' then doing a test and then waiting for a 12 week scan and having the utmost confidence you'll get a baby at the end of 9 months?!. Crazy! Try and enjoy it as much as you can, celebrate the milestones, take photos etc. Are you having any symptoms?. If I knew how to do dancing bananas you'd have rows of them!!. I've been mulling over the whole DD thing a bit more- think that's the only thing that DH would agree to try next. If we get to that point I'd love to chat to you about it all.

Bippy- I'm so sorry your cycle got cancelled. I've had one cancelled before and it's such a disappointment. We invest so much in all this and its so frustrating. For lining have you considered vaginal viagra or the one Carrie used, Tamoxifen? But then it sounds like you don't normally have these issues so maybe it was the biopsy. I guess the positive is that you get to have the second one. Your results are low, mine were 22% but still considered normal!. I thought I'd have the chat about it all after the second one and see what they advise. Regarding the fertility festival, it looks great and I'm so pleased there is more awareness happening but I think it would send me over the edge. I'm feeling quite angry and sad about infertility at the moment so I think a catch up over lunch with a few glasses of wine would suit me better. Amazing that you're volunteering at it.

KJade- how are you feeling now?. Are you back to work next week?. Great news you have an offer on your house!. And yeah, who cares about twin gate?!. Just view and put an offer in or don't!. Bless your brother, that's so nice he acknowledged how difficult his situation is for you. No one is a winner in this- you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Its just so sad how it affects everything. Definitely text something back- maybe say you're pleased for them but sad for your situation?. Great that DP is on board with the humira too. Have you booked an appt with Dr G?. Will you have to wait for the humira to take effect before you can transfer?. 

Northern- well done on last weekend. That and the hair would have sent me into meltdown too. Its horrible how you can think you're ok and strong enough to do things then it all comes crashing down. I hope you're feeling better. My hairdresser friend told me head and shoulders shampoo is good for stripping colour out. Hope you've had a better weekend now. Having distractions like home improvements is really good, and at least you get a sense of achievement from it.

Carrie how are you?. I know you're having a tough time at the moment- please keep in touch we all get it.

Fifi- I hope that your time in Cyprus has gone well. Sending lots of positive vibes your way.

Hi anyone else reading along.

I've still in crappy limbo land which is really impacting on my mental health. Trying the private consultation route for the cyst was a no go, they said I still need an NHS appt to get put on list for surgery. So at least I saved a couple of hundred!!. I keep phoning to see if they have cancellations and they don't yet. Hopefully I'll get a positive ovulation test in the next few days and can get the second biopsy done- at least that way I can see what's happening with the cyst when they scan me. No bloating or pain so I'm hoping it's just disappeared!. 
I went out with friends yesterday. Always a bit bittersweet as I've isolated myself a lot and it reminds me of how close we all were and how much fun we used to have. I had a bit to drink and the combination of that and feeling a bit done in after all the nights meant that when I got home I just cried and cried about life and our situation. DH was obviously thrilled with that!. Hoping the sunnier days that are coming will improve my mood a bit.

Anyway, sending lots of love to everyone.

Xx


----------



## apples2014

Hi ya 

Little quick hello. 
Mrs C it’s so nice to hear from you. Limbo is so hard. I was so low and my at all myself for most of last year. You have all my empathy. I found yoga and acupuncture helpful as was doing something positive for myself but I was low. I can imagine the nights and sleep pattern changing is probably not helping but it’s so hard as it’s your job. Your DH looks after you lovely I’m sure but I’m so sorry you are sad. Limbo is really horrible. Glad you doing the second biopsy too. 
If you ever wanted to talk about donor embies I would happily PM you my number or meet. Big massive bear hug xxx 
Thanks for the lovely post. I don’t have any symptoms other than I’m whacked and my boobs feel a bit sore. I looked at one of those FET calculator today and it says 5 weeks 1 day. My clinic told me on Friday to scan in 2 or 3 weeks. Does anyone think it’s okay to scan at 6 weeks and 5 days? That would be 27th it’s just we both already have that day off. We have a friends wedding the next day and i think I would prefer to know if it’s okay and on track before the wedding as will be hard to get through plus I don’t want to scan and go to work or leave work early on the Monday as my manager is really weird and annoying. But I’m having a dilemma as if we waited  to Monday it’s 7 weeks and 2 days. Dunno! I’m leaning towards the 27th at 6 weeks and 5 days but dunno. 

Kjade sounds like your brother is trying. My family haven’t asked since all the chemicals. He’s trying but it’s hard to reply to that.  I laughed and loved the tell him to google OHSS do it! What’s the latest with Gorgy and when can you transfer? Are you feeling properly better ? Xx

Bippy I’m so sorry about your cancelled cycle. Are you okay? It’s so frustrating. I’m so sorry. It’s so frustrating. I would actually scream not just want to. 

Northern painting your kitchen that’s brilliant. I would mess it up. Well done xxx

Fifi how are you? Hope all went okay. 
Hi to Carrie and everyone else xxx

Love Apples xxxx


----------



## bippy11

Thanks everyone, Im gutted, but trying to keep my chin up even if it's difficult. It's hard to have to reset my 'horizon' yet again when I had the timeline for transfer in my head. You're right Northern - always more waiting!!! I've booked in for Coventry biopsy no 2 next Monday. Have also got my appointment with the recurrent miscarriage clinic moved forward till tomorrow as they had a cancelled slot. 
Thanks for all your advice and suggestions as well - I think we'll stimulate with Merional again next time as that's worked well before but also going to add Letrozole, which Dr said is another stimulant, so will see if that helps speed things up a bit and helps get the lining trilaminar. 

Apples I think 6w5d scan should be ok. It is a little early but hopefully you would see a heartbeat but you may not even if things are progressing fine and then you may want to have another one to make sure and see a heartbeat. Maybe ask the clinic what they think, if 6w5d would be ok. x

MrsC hope you get your positive ovulation test so you can get your second biopsy booked too. We just had the phone consultation after the first one because we didn't think we were going to do a second biopsy at this stage as we were planning to transfer. All the waiting / limbo land is so difficult isn't it? It really gets me down as well, I cope better when Im actually doing treatment. Im sorry you've been so down too, it's completely understandable and sometimes you need a good cry. And just keep trying for a cancelled slot and hopefully you'll get lucky with it. Big hugs to you xxx

Northern I like that you have a 'great moving forward plan', painting the kitchen sounds like an excellent step! x

kjade I think that sounds like a really nice considerate reaction from your brother. It's good that he gets that hearing about their pregnancy / baby is going to be difficult for you. How are you feeling hun? Are you back to work today or do you still have some time off? x


----------



## fifibell

Hey gang 
We are here in sunny Cyprus and all is going pretty well so far. Had a lining scan and everything was good 9mm and tripled lining or whatever they call it. In for a transfer first thing tomorrow at 8am.

Have been taking it very easy sunbathing and going for walks. Dh managed to get a bit sunburnt despite pasting himself in factor 50 god bless his pale Irish skin.

Have been taking a reduced dose of steroids now at 16mg instead of 25mg and progesterone 3 times a day. Otherwise it's not much to report till tomorrow.

Haven't really been that focused on the treatment cycle as I was last time. I think I mentioned I'm considering a career change so I have been using this time off work to do lots of research into what I need to do to make that happen what courses I need to take etc. That's kind of been my main focus and what's been driving me forward these last few weeks so fertility issues has been put on the back burner mentally though I expect that'll change after tomorrow. 

I'll post a proper message and catch up with you all tomorrow once I'm back from the clinic.

Fi x


----------



## K jade

fifi very best of luck for today 

I hope you can relax a bit after transfer before coming home, glad Cyprus is nice and sunny.
great news on your lining too!

MrsC so sorry your feeling down. delays in treatment really impact on your mental health. its one of the worst things about this. I think it will be good to get back to MrBs clinic so you have the 2nd biopsy and also assess the state of play with your cyst. you never know. I may have shrunk/ gone. as you get them a lot and they clear up on their own , I do wander if there could be a chance things may have resolved themselves. _maybe_. i dunno but anything is possible in this game ... just remember you have that frostie there waiting for you. I find that since I have my ice babies in the freezer a weight has been lifted as they are there, preserved and not going anywhere. it takes the pressure off.

Apples next stop 1st scan! so excited for you hun. cant wait to find out how many you have on board!

bippy how long till you can cycle again ? good that your doc is going to add another drug. 
is your appointment with the RMC nhs? let us know how you get on as it be interesting to hear the nhs views on all this

yeh i really felt sad for my brother after reading that text cause I could tell he is just so gutted for me . at the end of the day i'm glad he found happiness tbh. one less thing for me to worry about. weird because about ten years ago my friend (who is a practicing psychic) told me my brother would find happiness really easily whereas me and my sister would struggle far more. and exactly that has happened.

so we have SOLD the house!   . for a bit more than expected too. however finding somewhere is going to be more difficult. we want a specific area and we found the perfect thing last week. we are viewing it today. great, except 15 yes FIFTEEN people have already made an offer on it!

yes back to work yesterday feeling loads better.

so i have a telephone appointment with Dr G on Friday and im really hoping he doesn't want me to retest the tnfa. 
i just want to take another shot of humira and get on with things. 
just gimme the dam drugs!!! 
such a junkie!!


----------



## bippy11

Fifi how did it go today? Hope everything went well! Sunbathing and walks sounds like the perfect preparation for a transfer   Now good luck for the 2WW! How long are you in Cyprus for? 

kjade, yey congrats on selling the house!! That was fairly quick in the end. So glad you are feeling better and good that you have your call with Dr G scheduled as well so you can find out what's next. 

We plan to try for transfer again next cycle and really hope my lining will play ball this time. Yes today's appointment with RMC was NHS - they took a scan, 8 vials of blood and a load of details about our history (I managed to get Coventry to scan and email my questionnaire to them as they asked me to do an identical questionnaire - they are supposed to share the data for this research project, but dont yet have access to the database.. so glad we didn't have to fill it all in again, it was super detailed and long). I am meant to have follow up blood tests with them in 6 weeks, but hopefully I won't be able to as I will be in the middle of transfer cycle. But the main thing is that if I do get pregnant again, they will provide the early care, which is good because I can't face going back to my local EPAU - so many bad memories there and so many incompetent mistakes (sorry to be harsh) that I just really wouldn't want to deal with them again.


----------



## apples2014

Hello! 

Fifi hope all is going well with transfer and you are feeling good. Thinking of you x

Kjade that’s excellent you sold the house babe. Hurrah! What a load off, great about Gorgy on Friday. Good week for you lovely which is fab after the OHSS hope being back at work is okay x

Bippy sounds like today was good with scan and bloods and moving forward and that they will look after you next time. You’ve been through so much you need to be with professionals. Hope you okay. Glad transfer is next month. Not too long x

Hi ya everyone else. How you all? 
Just saying hey! 
Nothing of any interest to share. I worked the days out wrong and next Friday is 6weeks and 6 days so scan is booked for then. Just need to keep it calm and chill. Work is busy helps take my mind off. 

Lots of love 
Apples xxx


----------



## fifibell

Hi everyone 

Kjade great news about the house. Hope it all goes smoothly for you. 
Bippy 8 vials of blood goodness! Good luck with your next cycle and fingers crossed your lining is on track.

Apples hope the time flies till your scan and until then you can just relax and be as stress free as possible.

Flying home today. Transfer went smoothly yesterday good quality blastos. Test day is the 29th. Keeping my head down till then.

Hope everyone else is well


----------



## K jade

Ah fifi  sending u good wishes for the 2ww .
Hope u can try and enjoy the sunshine and relax 

Just had my telephone with DrG. He said I need to retest cytokines. Sigh. 
I had a feeling that's what he would advise as he's Mr meticulous and not 1 for dishing out the drugs willy nilly. 
Depending on the  state of play with them i MIGHT need either another humira / an increase of intralipids / or an ivig( ? !) . Not sure why an ivig but I don't think I'll do that 1.
Anyway if the come back in normal range he's just recomending steroids/ clexane / and 1 intralipid 

Oh and got some info on whether steroids r bad with low / normal uNks. Apparently as u take then for only a short period of time they won't dampen u down or over supress u too much 
X


----------



## Angedelight

Hey all
Glad transfer went well Fifi. Are you good at holding out till OTD?. That's good you've had time to think about how to facilitate a career change. I think my days working on a ward are numbered. ive also been thinking about what I'd like to do next. I've just floated along really for years and although I've progressed and had promotions I've not really done any additional training in any therapies or anything- due to all this. What is it you want to do next?.

KJade- amazing news on your house! How did your viewing go?. Hope all the DrG stuff isn't too expensive. Any idea when you will transfer?. Did you text your brother back?.

Apples- I'm sure a scan will be fine then. Loads of people have them at 6 weeks. I'd be an actual nervous wreck before the first scan if I got that far!. Hope you're keeping busy and distracted. How are you feeling?.

Bippy how did your biopsy go or is it this Monday?. At least all these appointments feels like something is happening. And that's great you'll get early monitoring. 

I got my positive ovulation test so back to Coventry a week Monday to get a bit of my womb lining chopped out!. DH is working so I'll be on my own AGAIN!. So I will get to see what's with the cyst. Hopefully it's gone, or at least not got any bigger. 

Hi everyone else.

Have a good weekend all x


----------



## bippy11

Hey everyone, 

Mrs C great that you're booked in for Coventry. Really hope by some miracle your cyst has disappeared! Im going this Monday. You're right, with the various appointments, at least it makes me feel like Im doing something. Hope it will help you a bit too to get moving with something again. Have you got an appointment sorted for removing the cyst yet? 

Ive made no real progression with my career since treatment started. But I work with a nice team, have a supportive manager and flexibility around appointments so can't grumble too much even if I get bored sometimes. I would say it pays the bills - but not quite the treatment bills!! Mrs C I don't know how you work night shifts, that must be so tough. Good luck with your career change Fifi. 

kjade, it's a shame you have to retest. Thanks re the uNKcells, although Im a bit confused because I thought the whole point of taking steroids was to suppress them if they were too high!?? Anyway, Ill see what this second biopsy says and go from there. 

Fifi hope you are coping ok with the 2ww. Got everything crossed for you hun xxx

Apples how are you feeling? Hope you're managing to enjoy your happy news, despite also being nervous Im sure xxx

I Had a few tricky things this week, a baby in the office one day. Another day I went out to see friends and didn't feel capable of socialising and it made me feel really low. But the sunshine has been super nice! Hope you are all enjoying the gorgeous weather. xx


----------



## K jade

Right girls well dh has basically discovered all the money I've been spending on treatment and not telling him about .
It all blew up in my face as we had to do a mortgage aplication for our new place and they could clearly see i have 3 credit cards not 1!!
Plus I needed to supply 3 months of bank statements which clearly shows monthly regular payments being made to my MUM.   
Que lots of tears , total meltdown from me  .
Anyway dh didn't seem too bothered and almost found the whole thing funny .
It's not alot of money only a few hundred quid now  as I've basically paid most of it off thank god. 
But it's the fact we gave the bank false information. 
We're going to walk away from them now and do a new application Monday .
I hope this doesn't cause problems and we get our house 
( sorry I didn't mention that the offer we put in on the house we like was also accepted)

MrsC yes I replied , just said something along the lines of ah don't worry about it mate ...basically the total opposite of the  raging baroness 33 year old repro challenged woman I feel inside! !
Good luck for Monday hope that bleeping cyst has got the message it's not welcome and moved on 

Bippy I kno I  definitely think prf B and Dr G have totally different views. Sorry another colleague brought in a baby .haven't they got anything better to do? Take it for a walk in the park or sumfin fgs it's nice weather!!!


----------



## fifibell

Hey ladies

Kjade I'm sure things with the mortgage application will work out. Probably for the best that everything is out in the open now anyway.

Mrs c is it a womb biopsy you're having in Coventry. I've never had one those what is it meant to tell you. Maybe I should think about getting one done.

Bippy sorry you had a tough week it sucks. I feel like I'm being stalked by pregnant women at the moment they seem to be everywhere I turn. 

I'm doing ok so far not feeling anything except the usual side effects of the progesterone. I won't test till otd I'm expecting a positive result anyway so I'm not in a rush to find out.

Hope you all had a please weekend 

Fifi.


----------



## fifibell

Sorry that should read I'm NOT expecting a positive result so I'm  I no rush to find out


----------



## Northern

Apples I think it is your scan today? Got absolutely everything crossed that everything is ok and you get to see a little heartbeat xxx 

Fifi glad everything went well with transfer, try to keep positive and enjoy tww as best you can, easier said than done I know! 

Kjade I laughed out loud that you had to come clean to dh   glad he was ok about it! 

Hope you’ve all been enjoying the sunshine - I took my mum for a lovely spa day at the weekend for her birthday - was exactly what I needed and a lovely weekend to be away! 
Xx


----------



## apples2014

Hello! 

Bippy thinking of you, sorry you’ve been feeling down. A baby in the office is so tricky. I’ve had to go out quickly before for that. It’s been with women I studied with and they’ve come in with the baby or I find it hard when they come back from mat leave and I’m still here! Big hug lovely. Glad the sun has lifted you up. Big hug xxx

Mrs C fingers crossed for good cyst outcome update next Monday. Glad you going back to Coventry it’s not a magical cure but it’s good to be doing something rather than just limbo. Good luck x

Kjade that’s great about the house and it’s great DH knows and it’s all out there. I’ve read back and might have missed so sorry if I have but did Gorgy or your clinic indicate when you can transfer ? Exciting times with the house too though xx

Fifi so much good luck. It’s horrible the two week wait. Thinking of you and hope you can find decent stuff to distract you xx

Northern a spa wow so lovely. Bet it was super. Xx 
Thanks for thinking of me honey, scan is on Friday this week. It will be 7 weeks on Saturday but we have a wedding on Saturday so having the scan on Friday. 
I’m okay, I’m mostly calm but I have pangs of real worry there will not be a heart beat or it’s not going to stay but I’m managing it okay. The days go by very slowly but I’m still so grateful to be at this stage. After 11 transfers it’s still sinking in that it has finally implanted. But obvs long way to go! 
Thanks for thinking of me. Means so much to me xxx

Hello to anyone else reading. 

Hope everyone is okay. 

I’m at work better shoot! 

Love Apples xxxx


----------



## K jade

ah northern I love a spa day !!! 
love love love them. I need 1 soon.

Fifi the Coventry biopsy tells you if your uterine NK cells are high or normal. so its different from the blood ones. the professors at the centre are very critical and sceptical of any blood based tests and how valuable they are in terms of implantation/mc. 
its well worth doing if you haven't already. its run in an NHS clinic and I think part funded by NHS. although you do have to pay for it and the cost it £540. but all the proceeds go to the research into m/c and implantation. anyway , hopefully you will not need it as Friday will bring good news.

so two of us receive big news this Friday then APPLES and FIFI . lets hope its a day of celebration! cant wait

so the house is all moving forward quite quickly. 
its not so much the house that I love , that needs work. I will love it when ive made it my own, but its the area. right now we are out in the suburbs , our nearest shop is big asda. no cafes pubs or restaurants nearby. Have to drive everywhere. my dog has gone for every other dog in the small local park . 
this area has shops restaurants , cafes, 2 beautiful big parks .a walk away from my best friend. If I _did_ ever have a child ill be so happy there. we also feel we need a fresh start, my current house reminds me of all the failed treatment so we are just desperate to get out and hope this will also change the bad luck we've had


----------



## fifibell

Thanks for the info kjade. Might consider it.

I'm doing okay except for having to listen to the lady who sits next to me gush about kate and her new baby😑. 
Had some light spotting yesterday evening which freaked me out as I've never had spotting in the middle of my 2ww before. Anyway it seems to have stopped now. 

Just feeling the usual progesterone enduced bloating and tiredness. Can only wear trousers with an elasticated waistband at the moment!! Have booked my blood test for Saturday morning. The 2nd week is always the toughest I find. Best wishes to you all.


----------



## K jade

oh gosh that would really annoy me having to listen to that.    yawn
she has like 10 kids already I'm surprised anyone even notices another 1  let alone cares

ooohh that's interesting. I'm liking those signs
having been on FF a while now it does seem that spotting is a GOOD sign 

im a bit excited for Friday girls. I feel there may be some GOOD news on this thread
xxx


----------



## bippy11

Hey everyone! 

Fifi and Apples big day on Friday, please please please be a double whammy of happy news!  

Fifi, I wonder if the spotting could have been implantation bleeding?.. Let's hope so!!! Oh gosh, can you put earphones in or something to block out this lady at work? If not, hopefully she'll soon move on to something else! 

kjade so glad things are progressing well with your house, sounds like the new area will be lovely. Will you do work to the house yourselves or get people in to help? 

Northern a spa day sounds soo lovely! And your lucky mum being treated like that for her birthday   

I had Coventry biopsy no 2 yesterday. Forgot to take painkiller before, but had gas and air again so it was bearable, although obviously not exactly nice. (Mrs C remember to ask for gas and air when you go next Monday!). I hope my result from this one will be a bit higher so we don't have to consider doing this scratch mid-transfer cycle. 

On the way there a highly pregnant woman came and sat next to me on the bus. Just what I needed. I think they are stalking me too!!! They are everywhere I turn. If it's not pregnant women, then it's women talking loudly about when they were pregnant or their babies, or even grandmothers asking each other loudly how many they've got now (no joke, this happened the other day - one of them apparently had 7, whilst the other had 3 - but she had a son who will probably 'produce' soon! Seriously I nearly said something to them, but then I realised that a mad infertile women shouting at two elderly grandmothers is probably not a good scenario..)  

Also my BF is pregnant again. I'm happy for her, honestly, I just wish it would happen for us too! With their first one it happened first time they tried. This one must have been very quick too as they'd only just started trying. Wow it's crazy how it just works like that for some people!   She has been an amazing support through all my years of treatment, but now with her second one on the way I just feel like maybe I shouldn't talk to her so much about it anymore as I don't want to bring her down and make it difficult for her when she's got her pregnancy to enjoy. Its gonna be hard to watch her bump grow for a second time if this doesn't happen for me soon..


----------



## bippy11

Fifi and Apples just wanted to wish you both the best of luck for tomorrow - Im so hopeful that well get news of a bfp and a little heartbeat! everything crossed for you xxx


----------



## fifibell

Hey thanks bippy 
I'm getting my blood test Saturday morning and I won't be testing before then. Appreciate the good wishes 

How's everyone else doing I'm shattered and despite what's coming looking forward to the weekend also my little bro has decided to surpise us with a visit this weekend so that will be a good distraction.


----------



## Angedelight

Best of luck for tomorrow Apples!! Will be thinking of you.
That's strong will Fifi! The spotting sounds promising. Do you have any feelings as to what the result will be?
Xx


----------



## apples2014

Thanks you guys. You are all so lovely xxx

I’m so nervous. 
It’s tomorrow afternoon so promise I will be in touch. 
I’m 6 weeks and 6 days tomorrow. I’m really worried about it. But I keep telling myself I’ve come this far and need to try and be brave but I’m just so worried they will say sorry there isn’t a heart beat and it will be over. Sorry that’s so depressing but it’s my fear. I’m calm though and not emotional (I’m not always able to say this so this is an improvement) I’m just quite full of angst. 
Some people just don’t feel sick etc so I guess I’m lucky so far but apart from being very tired and having tender boobs I feel absolutely fine, which is another thing worrying me. But I also think Apples shut up! It’s only early. 
DH doesn’t get it at all and thinks I’m being a right miserable cow, he’s not called me a cow ha ha but he’s said a couple of times come on stop it think positive. He’s so sure it’s all okay! It’s kinda nice but it’s also kinda annoying as we really just don’t know. 
Anyway I’m reaching waffle stage now. 

Thank you, thank you for lovely messages. 
Will be in touch tomorrow. 

Fifi I’ve only done just bloods before sometimes, thinking of you for Saturday xx


Love Apples xxx


----------



## fifibell

Hey Mrs c

I am expecting a negative result as I've not had any symptoms but have been cramping on and off. 

Apples hope all goes well for you today.


----------



## Northern

I’ll get the right day this time (don’t know why I thought it was Monday!) - Apples lots of love and luck for this afternoon, we’re all thinking of you and hope it’s the most special moment for you ever, seeing a little heartbeat on the screen 💕💕 please please let us know when you can! 

Fifi thinking of you too, well done for holding out so patiently and not giving in to early testing! Got everything crossed for surprise good news tomorrow. Nice that your brother is coming, will be a nice distraction either way xxx


----------



## apples2014

Hi 
It’s all okay! 
Relieved doesn’t even cut it! Thanks for lovely messages. 

Doctor was so nice. I burst into tears as soon as we walked in, embarrassing! I just couldn’t control my nerves but stopped and she got on with it. 

Lovely flickering heart beat seen. We such a relief. I’m measuring fine and she offered to let me take a little video of the screen. 
There was also a tiny tiny tiny tiny other blob in there too when she had a poke around. This was possibly the start of twins that didn’t progress some time now. This probably explains the weird hcg bloods I had too. 

She wants to see us again in 2 weeks to check all is progressing okay so agreed to go back on 11th May. 
Got to go as battery is low. 
But I’m so relieved. 

Thanks so much for the support am so grateful xxxxxxxx

Love Apples xxx


----------



## K jade

Oh apples I'm just so happy and releived!! 
I KNEW today would be a good day 
Amazing! !!!


----------



## Northern

YES!!!!!!!!          
AMAZING news, am sat here beaming at my laptop, just so thrilled for you Apples!  What a huge relief, hope you can really start enjoying this now, it's happening!! 
xxxxxx


----------



## fifibell

What a relief apples. So glad it all went well. As the others have said you can start to relax a bit now. Great start to the weekend!!


----------



## bippy11

Yipppeeeeee!!!   Congratulations Apples!!! It's such an amazing moment isn't it, seeing that heartbeat! Enjoy the happiness, yey so happy for you xxx  

Fifi best of luck for tomorrow - sorry I thought you were home testing today. I always wait for bloods too. There's no way you can tell at this stage, so many people feel nothing and get a positive, and even having symptons isn't reliable as that can be down to drugs and overthinking. So you can't know and maybe it's worked, but I understand trying to prepare yourself for a negative. I just really really really hope you're proved wrong!!   Good luck hun xx


----------



## Angedelight

Yes Apples!!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 
Fabulous news!!! So happy for you!
Good luck tomorrow Fifi. Are they same day results?
X


----------



## Roxychick1976

Apples darling overjoyed for you!!! Just amazing news!! Sending so much love to you both ❤ Xx


----------



## apples2014

Thanks so much lovelies. 

Am really touched. I never thought I would get dancing bananas. It’s so nice. 

I’m determined to enjoy it for a bit now but they want me back for another early scan in 2 weeks (a day b4 9 weeks ) so no doubt be really nervous again. But so relieved. 

We have a wedding today. Practically all of our London mates going so a big one. I don’t need booze to boogie but I’ve never been sober at a wedding EVER so this will be interesting. 
Just popped on to say thanks xxx

Roxy you are so lovely. You should join this thread everyone is so fab xxx how are you? 

Fifi I don’t know if you get the bloods back today or not but I’m thinking of you. Hope you have a lovely time with your brother and family too. 

Big massive hello to everyone else. 

Right I need to put a face pack on and try and do something about my tired face! 

Lots of love 

Apples xxx


----------



## fifibell

Afternoon all

So blood test was taken this morning and got the result back it's positive hcg is 959 however my progesterone is low at 4.4 so I will need to increase my dosage and 're test in a few days. 

It is a surprise result and I don't quite believe it. Been frantically googling what progesterone levels should be at 4wks but keep getting varying answers so have just emailed back my clinic to see if they'll tell me what my levels should be. 

Its good news for now but we were very low key in our celebration as we've been here before and know it can all change in a matter of days.

Cheers for all your good wishes


----------



## K jade

Oh fifi I'm so overjoyed to read this!!!!!!!!
Wow! 
That's a high Hcg
UK have 2 put back?
Plenty of bananas for u     
Xxx


----------



## Angedelight

Yes Fifi!!! I knew that spotting was a good sign!!!   
So pleased for you!! 
X


----------



## Angedelight

I've now learnt how to do the dancing bananas!! 
X


----------



## eyes

Hi 
I haven't been a regular poster but have been following the group. Just wanted to say it is really fabulous news Fifi. Really happy for you! 

I am mid cycle with ARGC now so running around most days. Hopefully won't be too long now.


----------



## bippy11

Fifi congratulations, that's wonderful news!!!   here's some dancing bananas from me too         

I don't know what the progesterone levels should be, let us know what your clinic says. Oh really really hoping this is the one for you and it will stick. I understand not wanting to celebrate too much, we are the same now, but it's a big step in the right direction for you. So happy for you hun xxx  

Eyes welcome, good luck with your cycle, let us know how you get on. ARGC is full on from what Ive heard. xx


----------



## fifibell

Hey
Thanks everyone, thanks eyes best of luck with your cycle.

So I spoke to my clinic and apparently progestrone levels should be closer to 10 so I am quite low🙁. Anyway have to retest on Monday so fingers crossed all my numbers go in the right direction. In the meantime I'm stuffing myself full of progesterone suppositories which I happen to have loads of from previous cycles.

Its never straight forward is it??


----------



## Northern

Aw fifi congratulations!!! Such amazing news on this thread this week! 
Understand being cautious and retesting but good that they checked your progesterone so at least you can do something about it - hopefully everything will be fine and this is the one that sticks. Fabulous hcg numbers so it’s all looking good    
Xxx

Apples hope you enjoyed the wedding and the novelty of not drinking due to pregnancy rather than impending treatment  
Xxx


----------



## K jade

I'm having a glass of wine for both of u!!!


----------



## apples2014

Fifi
Amazing xxxxxxxxxx

Aw honey that’s absolutely amazing news. 
Sorry slow not been on here as no WiFi and no reception at the wedding. 

I’m so happy for you guys. 

I don’t understand progesterone at those levels there is two ways of measuring them and I only understand the one where it’s measured differently so over 30! 
But your clinic sound like they on it. So much love. That’s an absolutely amazing hcg. 

Very happy for you lovely xxxxxxxxx

Hi everyone, hope you all having nice weekends. 

Fifi fab news. 
Lots of love 

Apples xxx

- wedding was lovely and had a lovely time had a boogie but at midnight DH and his mates where so drunk was kinda amusing to see but also I was erm let’s go now but we left at 12.30am it was lush. 

I kinda held onto a glass of red wine pretending to drink. Am so random but it’s too early to share. The bride had IVf earlier this year and she is 15 weeks but she looked amazing. Her dress was so gorgeous and couldn’t see a bump. Was a lovely day xxxx


----------



## K jade

apples glad u enjoyed the wedding. 

I really had a great feeling for both u girls.

the bfps are starting on this thread! may this be a sign on things to come for all of us


I managed to get the local hospital for take my blood for me for free when I
do my cytokine retest . so making a save of £85! gotta celebrate the small victories haven't we.

no idea what to do about FET. if all does smoothly we will be moving house  in 6 - 8 weeks . our new house hasn't been cleaned in about 20 years let alone decorated. I don't really wanna be moving boxes/ cleaning when Ive  just transferred an embie. 
but I also don't want delays! my whole  journey has been delays galore
I just want to be in there as soon as possible so i can CLEAN. get settled. 
then transfer no stress. 
hopefully a new house will = a new baby
Ha! we can all dream


----------



## Angedelight

Ding dong the cyst is gone!!. Not sure how and when but who cares!. Had the second biopsy at Coventry today, she twirled that dildo cam round good and proper looking for it. I did have  a simple fluid filled cyst on one side but that's normal for me to have those and it looked completely different to the complex cyst they said I had.

So that's gone, second biopsy done. Need to order the rest of the immunes tests from Locus Medicus then get all the results back then see Dr G then plan transfer. So at least we can plan now and not be in NHS waiting list limbo land. I'll still keep my appointment just so check all remains well down there!. I've already emailed Penny about FET options

KJade, yes to a saving of money!. The house stuff will all work out, our last sale and purchase took 4 months! That was with a first time buyer going into ours and the people we were buying off going into rented. But then nothing ever goes smoothly for us!!

Well done on making it through the wedding Apples!. Wonder if anyone guessed??. Did many of your friends know about this cycle?.

Fifi are you having more bloods? Fingers crossed all goes well if you are.

Hi everyone else.

Xx


----------



## fifibell

Hey gang

Quick one from me as we are out with my bro. Well done on getting rid of the stupid cyst Mrs c. On to the next stage now which is great.

Bloods came back all good so can breath a small sign of relief for now.

Must dash hope everyone else is well.


----------



## K jade

Fifi yes yes yes once again a big milestone is down .dancing banana for u lady   

MrsC I kno we've spoken already but this is such great news I think u too deserve a bananna!  
What tests are u doing.?  KIRs is useful as neupogen can be used if key ones are missing.  This can be the answer for some ladies. 

Oh I'm loving all the great news on this thread of late !!
xx


----------



## eyes

Hi All
Hope all are doing well. Bippy thanks so much for the kind message, I hope it goes ok. 
Fifa I am very happy the progesterone levels are getting to the right mark, hope it goes all fine from here
Apples- glad you attended and enjoyed the wedding, it must be such  good distraction from the constantly worrying times. I guess that continues until the baby is born.

K jade good luck for the house move. It is definitely a LOT of work moving houses. Took us a few months to move fully, so many things found which we didn't know we had in the house!

Mrs C good luck for the immune tests, I hope all goes well. Its great to see the cyst has gone.
AFM we had our EC yesterday, 7 collected and 2 immature. 5 injected, 3 survived the ICSI. So they are recommending a D2 transfer. Not sure what to make of it as always had D3 transfers before. So really stressed and feeling hopeless now.


----------



## apples2014

Hi ya 

Really quick one as I am at work but I couldn’t read and run. Eyes it’s such a rollercoaster, but my buddy from on here, her little girl is from a day 2 transfer. Keep the faith. Lots of love. 

Hi everyone else 
Apples xxxx


----------



## eyes

Thanks so much Apples. It is very encouraging to hear this. When the embryologist said D2 transfer I automatically assumed the worst. 

Guess I am just very pessimistic at the moment with all that happened with our TESE samples and on the day troubles etc. We had TESE sample transferred for high DNA fragmentation. On thawing they said it looked nothing like what was in the description from the original lab! So we had nothing in it for the ICSI ( HS lab had said we had 1.5 million per vial!!)and had to produce an emergency sample on the day!


----------



## Angedelight

Eyes my friend had 3 eggs collected, only 1 fertilised, D2 transfer. 1st IVF. Now has a 1 year old. Whereas I've had too quality DE transferred- nothing! They always want to get back then back where they belong ASAP if fewer numbers. Good luck.


----------



## K jade

yeh eyes don't be too discouraged
like many on here I get lovely blasts but no baby yet

many get lucky first time from day2 or day3 embies

don't think it means too much tbh 
xx


----------



## K jade

hope everyone's OK

Eyes have you transferred? good luck for 2ww. hope you stay sane

I'm in adulting overload right now. stressed about mortgage which we still haven't got a definite on yet. moving in general especially when I see the mounds of stuff we have. treatment and when to squeeze in FET. money. WORK! Im comfort eating badly too. one of my biggest downfalls. 
oh to be 18 again!!
on a positive note my blood was sent successfully and should have now reached Chicago so lets see what my Tnfa currently is. then we'll go from there....
_and _its supposed to be a lovely sunny bank holiday weekend.

bippy are you starting again soon?
xx


----------



## eyes

Hi All 
Hope all are well and enjoying the sunshine.
K Jade thanks so much...we did transfer. 3 embryos on D2.....2 cell,3cell and 4 cell. All grade 3 &4 with 4 being the best grade. On the horrid progesterone in oil injections now....cant believe they advise to use the drawingup needles for that! Hope it ends well....then you forget about this 
I hope all mortgage and house stuff is sorted soon for you and then you will have the peace of mind to focus on just one thing.


----------



## eyes

Btw this time I havent even bought any tests as tgats the only way to keep me from early testing🤣


----------



## bippy11

Hi everyone, thanks kjade Ive started injections again and really hoping well be able to transfer this time. Going to see my newly pregnant best friend on Saturday, it's difficult because I am really happy for her but just so sad that it hasn't happened for us and they are now on their second and it just happens so easy for them. Its gonna be hard watching her bump grow again  

kjade you've got so much on your plate right now! It's really exciting about the house move and seems to all have happened quite quickly, but moving is such a mission! Don't worry about eating a few naughty things, you've got your embies on ice so you don't need to worry about your eggs for now and sometimes we need to not deny ourselves   xx

MrsC yey your cyst has gone! Amazing!   So good you can start planning for transfer now and don't have to hang about waiting for the NHS. When do you think you might transfer? x

Fifi, so happy for you and really hoping everything will go smoothly. Have you got an early scan booked? x

Eyes congrats on being PUPO   youch you use the drawing needle for the progesterone injections?? Are these the ones you have to do in your muscles? Fingers crossed itll be worth it! x

Apples hope you're well and managing to enjoy your pregnancy   x


----------



## Northern

Bippy sending you hugs   it's hard watching friends go through it, there's no easy way to cope, just take the ups and downs as they come and look after yourself, it's ok to find it hard.  Hope everything goes well with your injections and things are ok for transfer this time.  

I've struggled this week too with very mixed emotions.  My best friend who just had her first ivf cycle got a bfp on Tuesday - she didn't think it had worked and her blast was not top quality either so it came as a surprise. It was their first and only funded NHS try.  Of course, I'm so happy for her - she's wanted this so much and I absolutely wouldn't want anyone, let alone her, to go through everything we've been through.  But it just highlights how much went wrong for us, that in 5 tries and 7 good embies we got nothing.  It's hard to watch it go so easily for someone else.  I honestly really am so happy for her but at the same time I've felt like the biggest #infertilityloser.  Drank lots of wine on weds night and I've had a lot of chocolate and now I'm a bit better!   still looking forward to our own plans and we've decided we will call the local authority again on 15th May, when our 6 month wait will be up and we'll both be able to be at home in the morning to ring. 

I'm just sick of feeling down, sick of the same hard emotions every time someone close to me gets pregnant.  I'm bored of myself for feeling it again and just want something to go right for us for a change, I'm ready for happy news!! 

Kjade you've got a lot going on at the moment!  Hahaha 'adulting overload' is a great way to put it! Hope you get mortgage sorted and can move quickly on the house.  Take the chance to purge some of the stuff if you can and declutter - we still have loads of boxes in the attic from when we moved in 4 years ago!  Be ruthless lol. 

Fifi hope everything is going well for you and you can start to believe it all a bit now!  Have you had progesterone retested?  

Mrs C amazing news about the cyst. Can I ask did it interfere with your cycle?  I've just had a weird 43 day cycle and suspect a little cyst may have something to do with it - am borderline pcos and do seem to get them from time to time but without going for a scan will never know what's gone on in there. 

Carrie hope you're doing ok, are you on countdown to your amazing cruise now? 

Eyes I also know of people who had success with 2 day transfer - you know less about what's going on with the embie which is hard, but it doesn't mean it won't work. Congrats on being pupo and got everything crossed for you xx

Hi to everyone else, hope you've all got nice plans for the long weekend xxxx


----------



## K jade

Northern can soooo relate to everything you have said. I do really really struggle with 1st time IVF success possible even more now that the 'au-natural' people. 
with regards to naturally fertile people I've almost written off that I'm not even the same species as them anymore so that's a goner. there's nothing to compare. we are different. 
however people who manage to overcome their fertility obstacles seem to cause me more frustration right now. 
people overcome their obstacles and that's great. but when your obstacle seems to be presenting as the Berlin wall rather than a wooden fence its frustrating. 
on a more positive note i'm so excited to hearing about your adoption journey , its great you can now start the process. 
and yes yes YES TO THAT ! READY . FOR . HAPPY. NEWS!  I second that


Eyes great news! sounds like you have some good ones on board there

thanks everyone about the moving advice. and i'm gonna tackle some junk over the weekend. take things to charity shop/ recycling tip to try and get started. I don't want to be moving with loadsa junk I don't use so need to get cracking on it


----------



## bippy11

Thanks Northern, sounds like we are both in a similar position with our best friends being newly pregnant. Im the same as you, Im really happy for her, but it kinda rubs it in how it's been so hard for us and that its just not happening. You're right though with your advice, we just have to accept that it's not easy and there will be ups and downs and it's ok to struggle with it. I think I might follow your remedy and have wine and chocolate this evening!  

So exciting you've set a date for calling the LA and moving forward. Hopefully you will very soon have your own happy news to look forward to and then you can focus on that. x

kjade as its my best friend I can't really write it off, whether she got pregnant really easily naturally or through ivf, I still have to watch her bump grow. 
Having a good clear out is a great idea, it always feels so good. I might do the same actually! x


----------



## Northern

Thanks girls, I really needed to hear that I'm not alone and am not a Monster for feeling like this. Just felt like such a _loser_ this week - sounds so melodramatic and I don't mean loser in a personality kind of way, just in literally being at the back of the race when it comes to fertility. This is exactly why we didn't tell people about our situation - because their sympathy just hurts even more. My best friend knows and now I have to feel her tiptoeing round me, and don't want her to feel guilty round me that her treatment worked and mine didn't. It was when she acknowledged that this must be hard for me that it really hammered home - again why it's easier that mostly people just don't know.

Bippy yes get on the wine! I overdid it slightly on weds though and had a random Thursday hangover yesterday - very uncool!

We'll all be fine girls I'm just sick of the ups and downs! 
Xxxx


----------



## K jade

Northern your not a monster at all
Loser is the best word for how I feel at times too.
You kind of feel like the one left on the shelf. 
Couldn’t get pregnant  but also couldn’t overcome the obstacles either. 
Sadly friends  reactions, no matter how sensitive, tip-toey, and considerate  rarely make things better. As you say ultimately they win you lose . it doesn’t matter how sad and sorry  they are for you. it often makes it worse.  I know its not that simple but its how it feels at times. 
I often find the hardest thing about it all is that its no ones fault. You cant blame anyone . if I could get angry at someone cause they had ‘done this to me’ , take legal action , get compensation then I would almost feel more empowered.  Its totally crippling 

I think I'm gonna spend day 1 of the bank hols drinking tea and doing sweet nothing. 
The next day I will tackle the house. 
Wish me luck 
I think a glass of wine is in order for me too!xx


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all

Hope you're all enjoying the lovely weather. I'm sat in the garden at the moment hoping time stops so I don't have to go to work!. I have tomorrow off though and have nice plans with some friends (although I can't be absolutely certain there won't be a pregnancy announcement!).

Kjade- hope the sort out is going well. I love getting rid of stuff. Be so nice to have a proper fresh start too. Hope the mortgage gets sorted- not sure how it works in your house but I literally sorted everything when we moved! It was very stressful. 

Bippy- it's so hard when friends are pregnant. I'm sure all mine that have them will be having a second wave of them soon. Hope this month you can transfer and feel like you are progressing. Is it that fertility festival next week?. I hope it goes well with your volunteering at it.

Northern- everything you said about the first IVF success I totally get. I think if your first one works it's a completely different experience and perception of it. Yes the injections aren't nice, neither is the 2ww but if you get a baby after that then that all goes!. For me the hardest thing is the hope put into all these 2ww and having it crushed time and time again. Please don't feel bad for how you feel, just do what you need to do for you. Really hope things start moving forwards with the LA soon. My cycles have been really regular despite the cyst, but then my body is just weird as even Penny said it's not normal for ones like that to just go!.

Eyes-how's the 2ww?

Fifi- hope all is going well. Do you have a scan date booked?.

Apples- how are you feeling?. Have you got another scan coming up?.

Hi Carrie and anyone else.

So once the biopsy results are in I need to see Dr Gorgy. I'm hoping any issues can be treated with steroids and intralipids and we can transfer before Serum shuts for August. And before the school holidays and ridiculous flight prices. I'll just do my 2 day pop over on my own.  I've never done a FET before so will speak to Penny beforehand about options. Given that I have a regular cycle and recent scans have shown a triple lined decent lining I guess we could try natural or medicated. DH is a bit disinterested really, he's moved on, where as I just exist in infertility land and do ok and would do another cycle. I just can't imagine not having a family and know that adoption is not for us. It's was so annoying when I got scanned and they were like 'oooh lovely lining' 'ovaries look great'- useless, all of it 😂

Have a good weekend 
X


----------



## K jade

Omg MrsC are u on an afternoon shift? That's the absolute worst when it's a hot sunny bank hol. U have my sympathy. Hope it goes quick. 
I also live in fear of a pregnancy announcement. Got a big social gathering in 4 weeks.lots of girls I've not seen in a long time. so wish me luck there. ...
Yeh weird what your saying about how scanning nurses always admire your innards.  I get the same oooooo everything looks lovely too. Majorly frustrating. 
Interestingly I think APPLES was getting similar feedback too. Turned out her issue was a protocol issue ..

OK bee in my bonnet but gotta get it out. Dh's phone is  on the blink so everytime he wants to use Google to say -check the footie results- he asks to use mine.
It's really starting to annoy me. 
Mainly because it means he can see ALL The infertility related sites I have used when he searches something on the tool bar. 
And he probably thinks I'm obsessed. 
I just think use your own blxxdy phone!  
Clearly the heat is starting to get to me as I'm feeling irritable


----------



## ~Bona-Dea~

Hi Ladies,

I’m hoping I can jump in on your thread, not really sure where else I fit in atm!
I’m seeking advice and from reading through a number of threads on ff you seem like a very knowledgable bunch!
Firstly, I apologise for the “ me “ post....but to introduce myself and ask for your help....
So, we’re preparing to steam ahead with our fifth cycle, my dh has azoospermia and we have zero chance  of natural conception. I have mild pcos but otherwise no known fertility issues. That said, 4 cycles later and were still trying. My clinic have scanned me, tested thyroid, had some basis bloods done such as clotting profiles, lupas anti body screening , but they’ve not been able to give us any answers as to why it’s not working, which is incredibly frustrating. If there was a known problem we could work with it and at least know what we’re dealing with.
So, I’ve been reading up lots, as you do, and have started looking into immune testing. Trouble is, there’s so much info and various tests out there, my question is, where do I start?

We have always been self funded so we need to watch how much we spend and some immune tests seem to be rather pricey but I’m kinda thinking needs must!, any advice much appreciated

Thank you xxx


----------



## K jade

hi bona dea
a good place start is with the Implantation clinic in Coventry 
they test the NK cells in your lining to see if they are high/low as both affect implantation. 
cost is about 540

also the serum hidden infections are good and can be done without going to Athens. dormant infections can cause chronic inflammation and affect implantation if left untreated. think the cost here is about 300euros. 

what sort of embies are your getting? grades? are they day 3 or 5?


----------



## Northern

The only other thing I was going to suggest was ERA test - haven't had it done myself due to cost but it's another good one for unexplained failure.  Lovely Apples is the queen of ERA   they also do it in Coventry, about £500 I think. 

Your story sounds very similar to my own, can totally understand your frustration with not having answers.  Have you been with the same clinic each time? What are their thoughts on what to try next? 

I agree with kjade, the Athens/Locus Medicus tests are easy to arrange and there are different options for the level of tests you can do, with the entry level ones fairly affordable. 

Good luck with it all xx


----------



## K jade

also sorry to hear your DH has azoo. 
mine has it to so I know how devastating it is. 
using surgically retrieved sperm or sperm that has been cultivated using  drugs like clomid or tamoxifen does mean the sperm is  more 'challenged' and therefore there is a higher degree of abnormal embryos and therefore  implantation failure and M/C. 
So it may be that everything with you is fine and it is a case of the sperm being the issue. that doesn't mean it cannot be done, but it can be harder and take more attempts to get that take home baby


----------



## ~Bona-Dea~

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply,sorry to read of your journeys too, it is heartbreaking isn’t it. I hate feeling out of control about it all. 
Our clinic have suggested adding  clexane and baby Asprin to our next cycle, and I have prontogest injections too as they felt pesseries were not supporting me enough as one of my cycles I starting bleeding before my otd.
I did ask them about nk cell testing but they felt I didn’t need it, I don’t know how they made that decision.
We have stayed with the same clinic however I’m currently researching other clinics now before we commit to the next cycle, it’s so hard to decide where’s the best to go to!

My embies have averaged from 2bb-5bbs, my two bfps resulted from a 4bb and 5bb fet cycles which were frozen on day 6 and I’ve always made day 5 transfers from fresh, 

Thanks for the tip on an ERA test, never heard of this one so will get reading. It’s interesting reading about sperm issues, our clinic have always implied his sperm is great, although is currently frozen so I think I have some more questions to ask! 

Does anyone else get frustrated with their other half in the lack of input they have, every time I talk about looking into tests/clinics he just seems happy to do whatever I’m happy with, a little help or even an opinion would be good! Ha I must drive him crazy!

Thanks again ladies, hope your all having a good day xx


----------



## apples2014

Hello xxx

I’m sorry I feel like it’s been ages! 

Gonna try and catch up. 
Mrs C the cyst is gone! That is amaze balls. Cysts are basically the most massive pains in the butts. They really are. I had once when I had a natural egg collection cycle with Penny and they whipped it out at EC for me with the follicles. Was so happy! 
But I’m really happy for you and great you can crack on. What is lovely Penny saying about natural or medicated FET? 
I’m really excited for you guys that you are going again and soon. I used to feel like I was going to get a sticker or a poster for how oooh and fab my uterus was at lining scans. I can relate to you so much. Penny will know what to do for sure. Obviously you know for me it took the ERA pre receptive results to come back and Coventry helping me with that to uncover medicated didn’t work for me. But statistically it’s the higher result rate so go with what Penny says. 

How you feeling? I hope so much it’s your time xxx

Fifi how are you? Hope all is progressing well and you are okay. Are you being asked to have a early scan? Thinking of you! 

Northern and Bippy it’s so hard with our buddies. We are happy for them but it’s hard my bestie has 3 kids and she’s been so amazing to me and she’s pushed glasses of wine towards me and let me sob with all the failures she’s been so good. But some other friends have not been so good and pretty much pushed it all under a rug and they’ve cracked on and had 2 or 3 kids now and I’m only ever happy for my friends but I’ve found over the last 5 years we’ve been at all this it’s so emotive. 
Have so much empathy xxx
Northern you are not a monster you are very very lovely. I think you are calling your local authority next week. Just sending you so much love x
Bippy I’m sorry but I’ve lost track a bit, are you guys trying again soon? Xx

Kjade house move sounds good and going okay. Excited for you. Be so good to get in there and get all settled then go for your Frosties. It’s good that you have a plan. It’s always better with a plan ah! Lots of love xx

Bona welcome to our thread. It’s a good one. These girlies have helped me so much, this is a special thread. 

I’m really sorry you’ve not got there after 4 tries it is horrible and the worry about it all can be so hard. I’m just modifying my post as Bona I only just noticed your bio. I’m so very sorry you have experienced two pregnancies and lost them. Just wish could say something to express how sorry I am xxx

My suggestions are ....

Google Prof Quenby Prof Brosens Coventry university and contact the secretary that pops up she’s called Kerri Gerraty she is lovely. 
Explain your situation to Kerri and she can walk you through how you can refer to the clinic. It’s a clinic that is run by the two professors on a Monday and Friday afternoon. 
It’s around £500 (but you only pay once and you can go back again) they are running a research project on recurring implantation and recurring miscarriage. 
It’s very long to go into on the thread but I really suggest you call Kerri and she can explain it all very well. But I’m a nut shell they take a biopsy of your womb lining 7-10 days after you have ovulated and they check for a few things but the main thing is if you have percentage of NK killer cells in your lining. This determines a number of options for treatment and they provide you with a really detailed report that you can share with your IVF consultant at your clinic. I’m not explaining it really well but it’s all quite complex. 

For us we had a lot of own egg and own sperm ivf and we was told that it wasn’t not immunes. We had challenges on both our sides but we tried very hard to have own dna child and we kinda understood why it wasn’t working (plus 3 clinics where like guys move on you can’t make this work)  so after counselling, soul searching, break, reading lots and urge for a baby we moved onto to donated embryos. But after two attempts of embryo transfer of perfect blasts it wasn’t working and it was really upsetting. I had no energy to want to do any more tests and I was really low. 
But I was encouraged to try harder and eventually we had the ERA biopsy. This biopsy takes a tiny sample of your womb lining the same as the Coventry biopsy but the results that come back can be 
Receptive - all is good in there your uterus is ‘switched on’ at the right time and you are receptive to an embryo 
Or it can be 
Pre receptive- not ready yet. Might be over come by adding more progesterone earlier but your uterus is not receptive to an embryo. 
Or 
Post receptive - your uterus was switched on but the window has closed so transfer window is over. 

So with the Coventry biopsy and the ERA biopsy there is still lots of research to be done so it’s not a given these biopsy will find out what the issue is but they are highly recommended after 3 or 4 embryo transfers of good quality embies and no success. 

My era result  was pre receptive. So my clinic increased my progesterone and I had my first BFP was so good but it was then a chemical pregnancy. Gutted. 
Repeated it all again (this was now 3rd transfer of perfect donated embryos) and had a flat negative. 

I then after being scrapped up off the floor and dusting myself down contacted Coventry. We saw Prof Brosen’s who appeared to feel a lot of empathy for all the embryo transfers we had and when he tested my biopsy for the NK cells he also looked at whether it was receptive (medicated cycle) and the result came back that i was not receptive and he suggested we try a natural FET transfer. 

Our clinic didn’t agree and we listened to our clinic and had another chemical. This was April last year. Was so unhappy. 

Went back to Coventry and had the biopsy again. It came back again as not receptive on the medicated route showed this to our clinic and they still maintained it was not the issue and to have medicated FET - we listened to the clinic and last August had another chemical. 
It was a dark time. 

But Coventry suggested we come again for the biopsy naturally and the result in Feb this year was receptive so this time in March  we told the Clinic we only wanted to try natural transfer and after my 11th embryo transfer in total and it being our 6th transfer of donor embryos I’m now 8.5 weeks pregnant. 

All our bodies and issues are totally different but my long winded waffle is really to share that checking your receptive and your biopsy of your womb lining is massively helpful and a huge part of the jigsaw of the issues we might have and whilst every penny counts and it’s hard to keep coughing up for things Coventry you only pay for once. I’m really waffling on here sorry. But I really think it’s worth considering. 

You’ve ruled out thyroid and blood clotting so that’s good. Are your Clinic giving you any insight? 

My other advice is have a consultation with another clinic. Not with the intention of leaving your own but when you’ve had 3 or 4 transfers and it hasn’t worked it’s really worth having a fresh pair of eyes look at your issues and you can listen to what they say. We are not sausage meat going into a machine, we need to be looked at carefully and reconsidered sometimes. 
I didn’t want to do this, talk to another clinic I mean,  and didn’t want to leave a clinic (out of worry, money, couldn’t be bothered, too sad) but my acupuncture lady suggested I just get fresh eyes and it’s really a good idea. 
I hope so much this is helpful. So much good luck to you! I’m sorry for the waffle. 

Afm 
We have a scan booked for Friday afternoon. I will be 9 weeks on Saturday and my nhs scan has come through for 5th June when we will have reached 12 weeks and 3 days. I’m anxious and I just want to be at that date and it all be okay. 
I’m doing fine since had that very early scan just b4 7 weeks and saw a heart beat but I’m so acutely aware that is so early still so am just living week to week. 
Saturdays are my favourite day as that is the day that it ticks into another week, 9’weeks this Saturday. 
We’ve told hardly anyone still. It feels easier this way. 
I’m okay though. Had a few pangs of oh come on Apples it’s cool it’s okay, Christmas baby yah! But these are fleeting I’m more just begging my uterus to hold on and for it to be okay. 
I am not sick or unwell at all which is obviously nice and I’m sure sickness could arrive any moment but the lack of symptoms is a bit worrying. But I know lots of women don’t feel sick. 
I’m proper tired. That’s why not been on here much, really tired. But I’m still on daily bum shots of progesterone and taking progesterone pessaries and they make you tired. 
DH is still really chipper and thinks I’m being a misery to not be excited but I can’t be yet. That’s what 11 embryo transfers does to you I suppose. 
But I’m feeling calm and hopeful and anxious so I’m a weirdo mix of emotions. 

Friday can’t come soon enough it’s after lunch so will message after the scan, eeek! 

Okay this is a monster post! 

Lots and lots of love Apples xxx


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## K jade

Bona dea its strange that your clinic have told you immune testing isn't necessary then told you you should take aspirn/clexane. 
especially clexane if your clotting came back normal..do you mind me asking which one your are with?
agree with other ladies. sometimes a new clinic/fresh perspective makes all the difference. it doesn't mean your current clinic is bad. its just different ones suit different people. 
are you using frozen testicular sperm? even if men with azoo (sorry i don't know if hes obstructive or non obstructive) are successful with tese or drugs like tamoxifen , then pregnancy rates are much lower than men who ordinarily have sperm present. like I said that doesn't mean its not possible, but its trickier. 
i think Northern had this issue if Im not wrong and they did advise DS in the end. 

apples so great to hear from you , sounds like things  are going great. 
you are OFFICIALLY the queen of endometrial receptivity LOL !

my TNFA came back NORMAL. 28.4 so lowest yet. 
Dr G said in our last convo ' i think it will  come back normal' and he was right

so it'll be just the standard intralipids , clex , steroids etc. 

really dunnnoo what to do about moving. 
we are in the conveyance stage . it could take up to  twelve weeks. 
I don't want to be waiting around that long to go for FET i really don't. So i may just go for it. ..

bippy how are you hun have you started?
xx


----------



## fifibell

hey everyone welcome bona dea 

kjade moving house is exciting  you must be looking forward to it.
Northern bippy msr c how are you all doing hope you're all keeping well.

I have a wedding tomorrow in Ireland which will take up most of the weekend nicely. I have a scan booked for the 16th which is Wednesday evening. its a private scan as my nhs hospital won't see me till the 23rd and my fertility clinic wanted it a bit earlier than that. I've been doing ok, absolutely bricking it ahead of this scan though!!. but there isn't much I can do just have to hope for the best.
I haven't told anyone other than my sister and i don't intend to, don't want the extra attention. I did go out for a meal last Friday with all my mates and dh and I was the only one not drinking but i just said i had a stomach bug and as i'm not a big drinker anyway i don't think it raised too many eyebrows. not much else to report symptoms come and go so much that half the time i think i imagined them. Still bloated af and tired thanks to the progesterone. I have been keeping a pretty low profile otherwise trying to stay of google and the internet in general as i don't want to freak myself out even more than I already am HAHAHA.


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## bippy11

Hi everyone! 

Apples so nice to hear from you and I hope everything is well on the scan tomorrow and you get to see your little bean again and a wonderful heartbeat.   xxx

Fifi, well done for getting through the waiting time until your scan, it's such a nerve-wrecking time, but you're nearly there and it's good if the wedding can help make the time go. xxx

kjade it's good news about your tfna. 12 weeks seems like a long time to wait, I think I'd want to get started if I were you, but then I do understand that it may be extra stressful with all the moving stuff alongside it. Hmm tricky, but I'd say go for it. 

Bona welcome, Im sorry to hear about your difficult journey. It's tricky to know what to do with all the tests, we've done ERA, blood immunes and uNK cells biopsy with Coventry, plus a bunch of other tests. I still don't really know if they have been worth it or not, but there just came a time when we felt that we needed to try and rule out if there were any reasons we could find out of why things kept going wrong. It seems though that there are always more tests you can do - every time I think we've covered everything I find out about something new to test! 
I agree it might be helpful to have a consultation with another clinic - I know it's a couple of hundred pounds, but that can be peanuts compared to the thousands you might spend and it might be helpful with a second opinion and even if all it does is give you confidence in your current clinic that you are with the right one, then that can also be a good outcome. I think it's so important that you feel happy with your clinic. 

MrsC it's really such great news about your cyst and great if you can transfer in the next couple of months. If you get good lining naturally, maybe you should just go for a natural transfer? Did you have gas and air for your second coventry biopsy by the way? I really found that helped with the pain. We're also waiting for our results from the second one. 

Northern good luck for call the LA next week - keep us posted how it goes, hope it's good news and you can get moving on it soon. 

Eyes hoping you're ok in the 2WW - test date must be approaching? 

Has anyone heard from Carrie? I really hope she is ok xxx

AFM - we had a disappointing scan yesterday - looks like we'll have to abandon this cycle too as lining is not getting thick enough (although it is trilaminar this time). Aaargh so frustrating!!! We've been injecting now for 3 cycles, building up hopes and get disappointed and Im just so sick of waiting waiting always waiting. DH got really down too, which makes me worry about him. Anyway we have another scan tomorrow, but Im pretty certain it will be bad news and we won't be able to go ahead. It'll be my birthday, so it would have been nice if we could have got good news. Oh well, We'll have a drink to drown our sorrows! Another year and still no baby or bump, just another abandoned cycle to add to the collection! But sorry - Ill stop feeling so sorry for myself!!   
Im looking forward to Fertility Fest this weekend   
It was nice to see my friend last weekend even though she is newly pregnant - she knows me so well and everything that we have been through and she is very sensitive and understanding and is wishing so much for it to happen for us. So I really appreciate that. I also got to spend some time with her little baby who is very special to me and I try to enjoy that because I think I may not have one myself, but I still have some babies in my life that are very precious to me, like my little nieces and a few close friends' babies. It's only them that I enjoy seeing though, other babies I can't handle so well..


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## eyes

Hi All
It is great to see the progress for all. 
Welcome Bona. I hope your immune issues are addressed, I am not too familiar with the ERA etc but I am sure someone here will know.

Apples its really great to hear that all is going well for you. Good luck for your scan. You are absolutely right that our previous IVF experiences make us all very apprehensive. 
Fifi great that you are having a scan soon. It does put your mind at ease. It wont be very long now and the wedding is an excellent distraction. 

K Jade, TNFa within range is excellent! Looks like you are nearly ready to start! It must be so hard having to wait after all this is in place!


Mrs C, looks like you are nearly ready to transfer. Great that the cyst has settled. 
Northern, wish you all the luck for the meeting with LA. Do you have to wait for 6 months before they assess you? Is that for an initial interview or for assessment?  

Bippy, I hope things get better with your lining by tomorrows scan. I got given Viagra to thicken the lining this time. The clinic said that it counteracts the effects of clomid, which makes it thinner. Maybe you can ask your clinic re that?  


AFM I am STILL in the 2 ww. Seems like its never ending 2 weeks! I haven’t tested still, I am D7 post D2 transfer. Am a bit scared to test and get upset! All my previous cycles I did test before but this time I am really nervous. No symptoms still except bloating. The clinic upped my progesterone as it was dropping a bit.  Hope I resist testing till the 15th ie my test date!


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## K jade

Bippy happy birthday !!! 
how did the scan go?. this must be ridiculously frustrating for you . I hope you are still able to go ahead but if not I hope your clinic can pull something outta the bag .
could a different stim drug be helpful? I know your on merinol right now so maybe something else?  gonal f/ menopur. they all vary. for example I had a far better response on menopur however better quality on meronial albeit a slower response.  I know your doing it purely for lining but a change might make all the difference. 
must be so hard with your pregnant bf too.  

eyes hope your staying sane. well don't for not testing,  im like you, not a compulsive tester. I find just doing the 1 at the end of the 2ww horrible enough

so treatment planning is booked for 21st may with a view to starting on next AF. 
so im doing it. sod moving. itll take forever anyway so definitely not waiting around for that 
xx


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## Angedelight

Happy Birthday Bippy! 🎉🎉
Hope the scan bought good news. It's so frustrating how we get ready mentally and then physically can't proceed and it's all beyond our control. Cysts have been a persistent feature of cycles getting delayed for me and causing stress. So annoying!. I didn't have the gas and air, I necked 3 nurofen about 40 minutes before and forgot about the gas and air till afterwards. It really hurt and they counted down from 10 like that was  supposed to help?!. To be honest it wasn't as bad as the first time as I just focused on the cyst being gone!. Enjoy Fertility Fest, let us know how it goes.

Eyes, well done on not testing, I'm always too scared to test early. The 2ww feels like forever- hope you have nice weekend plans to take your mind off of it.

Fifi- good to keep it all quiet, so much less pressure. I think people mean well but it just makes it overwhelming if people are messaging/asking how you are. I don't tell anyone anymore when I do a cycle  (well apart from on here!) as it just makes it easier to manage/pretend it's not happening. Maybe you might feel differently after the scan. 

KJade just go for it. It'll all come together somehow!!. 

Apples hope the scan goes well!! Thinking of you. Let us know how you get on. 
I need a proper conversation with Penny about the FET and what to do, maybe I'll book one in. Interesting that medicated has higher success.

Hi Bona, sorry you find yourself here. Everyone knows a lot so I'm sure you'll get some good suggestions. I think a second opinion can be really helpful sometimes. I had one fairly recently and it was well worth the £150 to go through everything properly after I started feeling disheartened with my clinic.

Hi everyone else. Can't believe it's nearly the weekend again! Time seems to go so fast, I've done a couple of nights this week and coupled with a very intense work environment I'm wiped out. And working all weekend!. Some of its extra shifts though, getting that cash in ready to give to Dr G!.

Also, isn't it funny how you get kindness and understanding from the most unexpected of places on this journey?. The GP I saw about the cyst after it was found at coventry and had a complete meltdown on, an absolute sobbing fit!- well he phoned last night and left a message to ask how I was getting on and hoping an appointment had come through and sorry for the initial delay. How lovely is that?. Particularly when I know how busy and stretched that surgery is. Really made my day. I was anxious about seeing a male GP but I'm so glad I saw him. I have definitely learnt over the years that the people you expect to understand don't, and that the people you don't think would understand sometimes know the exact right thing to say/do.

Have a lovely weekend ladies.

X


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## apples2014

Hello! 

Little quick message from me 
But firstly Bippy happy birthday xxx and I hope the next scan is okay. Lots of love xx

Mrs C that thing about mediated having higher success is what my Gennet consultant said (he was also a pain about natural but we just told him in the end ha) have a good chat with Penny. 

Kjade you made me chuckle babe, womb lining pro me ha ha (not). I’m not sure could wait that long. What you thinking? Xx

Good luck eyes thinking of you xxx

Hi ya fifi and Bona and Northern and anyone else reading

Had the scan and am so relieved. All okay. Little jelly baby doing okay and I’m measuring exactly as I should be. I’m 9 weeks tomorrow. So now I just have to wait just over 3 weeks for the nhs scan on 5th June. I’m so relieved and so tired. But phew! 

Lots of love 

Apples xxx


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## Angedelight

Amazing news Apples!!! So pleased for you both!!! X


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## bippy11

oh Apples yey! Im so happy for you!   and so is my DH - Ive just been telling him about you and how you had 10 failed transfers and now finally on no 11 you've got to 9 weeks and everything looks good - honestly it's so amazing and gives us hope that it can still happen for us. Congratulations hun, you just rest up and enjoy being pregnant!!!  

Thank you everyone for the birthday wishes   I wish I wasn't a childless 38 year old, but that's what it is so deal with it I guess. But thank you, your happy birthdays was really nice - I haven't had many of them today because I don't really advertise my birthday these days because Im paranoid that people will ask how old I am and then when I say they will think oh - why doesn't she have children?..

The scan was better than expected.. we had thought that it would be clear cut and abandon cycle and I was ready for that (had already planned to book a holiday in May half term!) but the lining had grown quite a bit over the last two days so he now wants to give it a couple more days and scan again sunday. It's not convincingly trilaminar and I still think there's a high chance it won't happen this time. Im happy of course that it's not over, but in a way I was ready for that and now instead Im still in limbo land and trying (but failing) to keep my hopes in check so I won't be too gutted on Sunday. Im supposed to volunteer at Fertility Fest that day, but I think Ill have to wait and see how I feel after the scan now. 

kjade, I've got good lining with merional before, much better than with progynova and chlomid which I tried in the past. My Dr thinks that it's the biopsies and that my lining doesn't behave normally in the cycle after the biopsy. So I think if it doesn't work out this cycle, we'll try another one the same and hopefully it will work better when it's not straight after a biopsy. But thanks for the suggestion and Eyes also, it's something Ill ask about. 

Yey it's great you've got your appointment booked for so soon kjade - I think you're doing the right thing to get on with it and who knows how long all the house stuff will take. There might be times when it'll be stressful dealing with both, but you'll just have to take it as it comes and prioritise yourself and the transfer. You'll just have to delegate house stuff to your DH!  

Eyes well done for getting this far and stay strong - you can do it! Have you got something nice to do for the weekend to keep you distracted? 

MrsC that's so lovely of your GP! Sometimes a bit of thoughtfullness like that can really cheer you up. Yes you're right, there's no way to predict how people will react. It must be so tough working nights, I honestly don't think I could do it. I hope you get some days off next week to rest!?

I got my new Jessica Hepburn book this morning - I can't wait to read it! She swum the channel and because you have to put on weight when you do that as no wetsuit allowed, then she thought why don't I go out for lunch with 21 people (channel swim is 21 miles) and talk to them about whether motherhood makes you happy. So it's an account of all that. I'm a keen swimmer so Im intrigued to read about the swim, let alone all the conversations she had with various people! She tied in the launch of the book with Fertility Fest as she is also the organiser of that. I almost feel like I am part stalking her!


----------



## Northern

V quick post but Bippy I've just seen this on my news app all about Jessica Hepburn - what a great job she's doing of raising awareness  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/family/11-failed-rounds-ivf-infertility-has-taught-truth-motherhood/
And happy belated birthday! Xx

Apples wonderful wonderful news - so amazing and it seems to be going quickly now! Can't believe it's nhs scan next xxx


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## Roxychick1976

Yessssss Apples! Totally overjoyed for you ❤ Xx so much love to you and ur hubs ❤


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## bippy11

yeah Northern she's amazing and really lovely, saw her yesterday at fertility fest. (which was great, you can watch some of the talks online as they are recording them and streaming some of it live on ********). 

It's another cancelled cycle for us, rubbish   x


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## K jade

Another fantastic update apples! Your knocking it out the park as they say. can't wait to here if your team pink or blue!! Xx

Bippy I'm so so sorry. Did u find out today?  Battling a stubborn lining is so frustrating. There must be a way to get it to play ball.. i hope your doc can pull something outta the bag for u .when will u next  have an appointment with him?

Interesting article by Jessica Hepburn. ..she's makes a good point  about meghan markle.  At 36 she's older in starting out . 
I wander if it'll be a straightforward  rd for her..only time will tell I guess.


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## Northern

Oh no Bippy, that’s rubbish I am gutted for you! You poor thing, the waiting is one thing, but not being able to get started when it does come round and postponed cycles are more frustrating than anything. Are there other things you can try to help with lining? Will you have a follow-up review to help plan what’s next? 
Hope you’ve enjoyed Fertility Fest, shame I couldn’t make it but I will definitely look out for more by Jessica Hepburn and will keep an eye out for her book. 

Hey Roxy! Nice to see you checking in here, how’s things with you? 
Xxx


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## apples2014

Hello xxx

Thanks for the love. You lot are proper lovely to me xxx

Bippy I’m so sorry babe. It’s so frustrating. What did they suggest ? I’m glad you had the Fertility fest to help keep you guys busy. Love to you both. It’s so hard xx

Mrs C I’m totally going to order that book. 
Any update from Penny? 

Northern thanks for the link to the article. Really enjoyed reading it. Have been checking out local blue bell woodland walks (national trust) ha ha am a right geek at the moment! But we not telling anyone so am avoiding people. Northern so much good luck for that very important phone call. I’m thinking of you heaps. You know you can PM me anytime with questions. I sit on an adoption panel at work xxxx

Eyes hope you have kept yourself lovely and distracted. I think your date is Tues! So much good love and luck. 

Fifi I’ve lost track a bit but think you have a scan coming up so thinking of you too. 

Kjade aw you always make me smile. Pink or blue. It’s still really surreal to be at this stage. What you thinking about that transfer? Hope all is good there xx

Roxy babe how are you? Thank you lovely. How’s the lead up to your cycle going? How are you? Lots of love x

Sorry it’s taken me until today to reply back properly. The scan was all quite quick and surreal but he gave us a little photo (literally looks like a jelly baby, I literally mean the sweets) and put the measurements in writing. I’ve emailed my clinic but they’ve not replied but I think I’m just staying on all the meds for 12 weeks except clexane which I assume I stay on. 
He gave us a leaflet about harmony testing. It’s £300 anyone have any thoughts? We are thinking no actually! I’m waiting to be told the age of the donors but I’m not sure need it and the nhs can do it as well if there is something questionable. I’m feeling no right now. Can’t explain why though! 
I have a nhs booking in midwife appointment on 1st June so I guess can discuss it all then. The consultant said on Friday that whilst they are not 100 per cent sure there was a possible vanishing twin early on that can affect the harmony test outcome so maybe this is another thing that makes me think narrr! He didn’t push it at all literally just gave us a leaflet. 
I’m seeing a blood consultant at local hospital Tuesday morning. She discharged me last year after the last chemical pregnancy because my clotting mutation blood results were all fine and she said I had to be referred back when I was pregnant. She is the doctor whom on TWO occasions, one time I was crying, shared that she and her husband couldn’t have children and it wasn’t the end of the world! Nice! Helpful! Was very annoyed but just glared at her! So I’m not super excited to see her again but she’s a very good blood clotting disorder consultant so need to just put that behind me. Why people feel the need to comment like that to women suffering from infertility is beyond me! 
Not much else to report, feeling humble and relieved but very mindful it’s only 9 weeks. 

But that’s enough about me! I just really wanted to say thanks for the cheerleading       
It means a lot. Hardly anyone knows so it’s really lovely to have support. 

Lots of love 
Apples xxx


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## K jade

apples is harmony that test they do for downs? 
its a very personal decision but for me I wont have any of those tests no. my sister has a child with  reactive attachment disorder(RAD). im sure hes also ASD.  hell to live with.  people get hung up on downs. 
parenting is all about uncertainty I think. part and parcel. Id  be OK with downs and other special needs but that's me. Anyway , you'd be  low risk given you used younger donors. 

wow will be interesting to see your Blood consultant... I wander what shes gonna say!

omg just eaten mashed avocado on toast blxxdy lovely!
im back on the healthy train!

XX


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## Angedelight

Hi all

Bippy I am so sorry it got cancelled again. It's such a rollercoaster and I find being in limbo really takes its toll. I totally get what you mean about being anxious about your age- I dread being asked mine now. At least when I was 35 and under it seemed reasonable when asked about children to say 'not yet'. I had an absolute meltdown when I turned 36 and went into a new bracket for success rates. I hope you managed to enjoy your birthday. Hope fertility fest went well. I'm going to order her book. Although I've got a couple of treatment related books at the moment and haven't wanted to read them- they all get happy endings, that's what's putting me off I think!.

Apples- so glad the scan went well. Honestly, you having success after the 11th transfer is so inspiring. Can I ask, have you and your partner always been on the same page about keeping going?. Me and mine aren't, I'd keep going but he's accepted it may not happen for us. We are normally very direct and talk about everything, I've avoided talking to him about it at the moment as I know I won't like what he has to say. That feels weird. In some ways I'm so tired of it all and could just say no more but then it has a lifelong impact that I don't think I'd recover from...

Fifi- good luck for tomorrow. Hope it all goes well.

Eyes how are you doing?.

KJade- I'm trying to eat well at the moment too, wanting to lose half a stone or so before next round of steroids. Was it you that was doing anti inflammatory smoothies? What did you put in them?. 

Hi Northern, Carrie and anyone else I've missed. Also, days we decide on a date for another meet up?.

Hope everyone's weeks are going ok so far, the sun makes such a difference. We are away this weekend and the forecast looks great.

X


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## Northern

Well, the call is made. Bit of an anticlimax as the duty social worker wasn't available, but the nice lady who answered the phone took our details and someone will call us back - she said it might not be today but that's fine. 
So, even if only _very slightly_, the wheels are in motion. I feel all jittery and a little excited....  
xxx


----------



## eyes

Hi All
Hope all of you are well. 
Mrs C hope you hear something soon from penny. It will be all fine. 
Apples really really happy that all is going well. good luck with the hospital appointment. 
Hippy so sorry for the cancelled cycle. It is really stressful when it gets cancelled last minute! I hope they have some ideas for the next attempt for you. 
K Jade, Northern I hope you are keeping well. 
Fifa good luck with the scan.

Just wanted to say we got our blood result today and it was a BFN for us again. 
We do have an initial interview with the overseas adoption team in a couple of weeks ( were told that there is no hope for us in UK due to my ethnic background) but need to find out if they will consider us at all being so close to a IVF cycle. I think we did all we could for this one to work and am getting closer to the idea that maybe it was never meant to happen for us.


----------



## Northern

Oh eyes, I'm so sorry.  It's a tough pill to swallow, especially when you know it means moving onto something very different.  Do take some time out - even if it's only an afternoon or something - to look after yourself and let yourself grieve for this cycle.  I also know that planning the next move is part of that process, so good to hear you're thinking about what's next, but you do still need time to pick yourself up a bit and reflect.  

How many agencies did you speak to about adoption in this country, and have you spoken to any voluntary agencies?  You hear such mixed messages about the kind of adopters they need - some people seem to be turned away for being 'too white' and yet others get knocked back for being of different origin - it feels a bit of a minefield.  What's the process like for adopting abroad? 

Look after yourself and I hope you can find the right way forward xxx


----------



## eyes

Thanks so much Northern for the prompt reply. it means a lot that I can tell someone who understands!
We spoke with 2 councils who both said that because we wanted under one year old in most places they will not have anything for us. They said that our option is overseas and to do that we have to go private. So we had registered with IAC 4 months ago. Our ARGC cycle was delayed due to immunes etc hence the delay in getting initial interview. I wish they didn't have this rule of finishing with IVF before applying for adoption as we would ve gone for this either way regardless of our cycle result if we could. 

ARGC have been brilliant but was disappointed with Mr Ramsays TESE results- it nearly cost us our last ever attempt. We cannot say that this was the reason but the ARGC could not use the samples retrieve by Mr ramsay as the description from the lab did not match at all with what was in the sample. They said that instead of finding 1.5 million per vial they could see less than one or 2 sperms in each and they seemed not usable. So obviously someone somewhere made an error but no one is admitting it now.


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## K jade

eyes im so so sorry
also sorry that you've been given such negative messages regarding adoption. 
I agree with northern. it seems that on one hand they are telling people they are too 'white middle class' then on the other they are too ..well. non-white and therefore finding a match will be too difficult. 
sorry I don't know what ethnicity you are but plenty of BME couples adopt. and being a particular race should never be a blanket no. They may not have children of your race right now in the system but who's to say they will not come into the system at some point. Plus with the national adoption register you would be considered for children from all over the UK anyway.  Over recent years the rules have become far more relaxed in terms of cross  race adoptions anyway so it seems the advice you have been given is a bit out of date. Have you tried a voluntary agency rather than a local authority? they tend to be more positive and flexible. 
I understand your frustration regarding the wait after ivf. But it is important to grieve and come to  terms with infertility before moving into adoption hence the 6 month wait.  Bringing up adopted children is very different from raising a securely attached birth child. Not necessarily better or worse but different. I would say have a holiday and take a bit of time out if you can , do lots of reading on adoption , get your house in order for the assessment and then you'll be in a good place then to approach another LA or a VA. 

MrsC I think my DH is similar to yours in terms of wanting to move on . I also notice they are the same age. 
I guess I don't know what i'd do if he just said we have to stop otherwise 'I'm walking away'.
I think ultimately  he accepts its my money and my body so he has to support me to carry on. or at the very least not object to me carrying on. If we have a baby I cant imagine he'll be very hands on and that doesn't bother me at all. 
I think a lot of women find themselves in our position. But ultimately we are the ones with the womb  so we get the final call.


----------



## Northern

Eyes I agree with everything kjade said - very surprising that councils would put you off completely, especially when all the stats I've seen say there's a shortage of ethnic minority adopters compared with the children in care, and also they're supposed to be being more flexible about their matching criteria when it comes to race.  Definitely try a voluntary agency and see what they say, it'd be interesting to see if they paint a different picture.

Wow that's shocking about the sperm sample - I would definitely be pushing for some kind of investigation and a proper answer about what's happened there.  

Well, the lady rang back and I think we have officially submitted registration of interest.  Someone will be in touch in the next few weeks... 

xxx


----------



## K jade

oh wow northern that so exciting!
cant wait to hear about it !! xx


----------



## fifibell

hey gang,

Northern great news re starting the adoption process, hopefully they'll get back to you sooner rather than later.
Eyes i'm sorry to hear about your result and i think it's great that your making plans for you next steps.
Bippy also sorry to hear your cycle was cancelled delays are so frustrating. 

re; moving on from IVF my dh and i had already decided going into this cycle that this would probably be our last shot as we have both reached our emotional limit and honestly the thought of going through another cycle just fills me with dread whereas before i was always so hopeful and enthusiastic. I think its a personal realization that some people come to and some don't, it's different for everyone. I just feel like the majority of my 30's have been dominated by IVF and i don't want that for my 40's. Also we are interested in adoption and have been to some open evenings so that could be a new path for us.  I agree kjade, the whole 'too white/not white enough' to adopt a child for me is a nonsense, as a mixed race person there were times growing up people questioned if i was adopted because my mother was white and i was not, times have moved on significantly for this to be a barrier for a child to go to a stable home but that's just my view.  
Thanks for all you good wishes for the scan tomorrow. Today i am relatively calm but yesterday i was a complete basket case super emotional and just really down and miserable.  Anyway we shall endure!!!


----------



## bippy11

Fifi how did the scan go Really really hoping you got to see an amazing little heartbeat? xx

Northern congrats! The process to getting your little one is started, woohoo   xx

Eyes Im so sorry about your negative result, it's so hard   Big hugs   xx And such a shame with your experiencing the mistake with regards to the sperm on your last go. I agree, I would push for an investigation / write a formal letter of complaint. It's not good enough! Im glad you've got a plan for going forward, that always helps and hope you can maybe also get to see an agency in this country, it sounds like it should be possible based on what the others said. 

kjade, mrsc, apples, everyone else, hello!   xxx

Thanks everyone, it's really rubbish we had to cancel again, it HAS to go ahead next cycle!!! It's getting me down a bit, but we booked a holiday to go to Majorca for May half term so that's helping!   Found a little quiet beach town, don't worry, we're not going to party central   xxx


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## K jade

omg bippy im so jealous. 
Id give anything for a holiday right now , your gonna have an amazing time . especially Majorca as it'll be perfect weather and its not too long a flight!

so I heard back from DrG and he conformed that yes, it is just the very standard steroids clex and intralipids for my next go. 
so at least that's nice and cheap
treatment planning is on Monday . then stating on next AF
I did have a mock transfer during my EC so ill have to see what the outcome is of that as last time the Doc talked about me having sedation for transfer.


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## bippy11

that was the thinking kjade - where can we get with a beach, nice weather not too far away or expensive. When we knew we might have to cancel the cycle again we decided that if we had to, then we would book to go away - that way it meant that whatever the outcome something good would happen - either a transfer or a holiday. I would obviously have chosen transfer, Im so sick of waiting, but hopefully we'll get there next cycle and a holiday will be so nice - much needed after all these months of injections and disappointments. 

That's good you know the plan for drugs in your next cycle and that they won't be too expensive. When is your AF due? I've never had sedation for transfer, in a way it would be quite nice, but then I also like to see them being put in on the screen. Why would you need sedation? 

I have a question that you guys might be able to help with as many of you have traveled abroad for treatment. We will need to inject whilst on holiday. How do we transport the drugs? Obviously needles will have to go in hold luggage, but Im worried about putting the actual vials in there as it can get very cold and I don't know if that is ok for the drugs. But if we take it in hand luggage then it is liquid so we would have to put it in the clear plastic bags - but will they be ok about us taking them? Maybe I need to call the airport to ask or something, but I thought some of you might have had to do this before and know how it can be done.. any help and tips much appreciated! x


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## Northern

Bippy I've had to travel with drugs loads of times lol, honestly it's a lot easier than I ever thought, they hardly batted an eyelid!  I didn't put anything too irreplaceable in hold luggage as I was terrified of them losing it, I kept it in hand luggage, put it out in a tray to go through security and always had a note from the clinic or a copy of my prescription/protocol in case anyone asked what it was or why I needed it, but they never did.  
For anything that needed to be kept chilled I bought a mini coolbag and kept it with an ice pack - most airlines let you take one ice pack with you.  I think some ladies even ask the airline staff to pop it in the fridge on the plane!  But I never bothered with that for a short flight.  
And as it's all under 100ml I really don't think anyone was too bothered.  My partner was more concerned about getting questioned for taking hot chocolate powder through last time! We had it in a tupperware pot and he pointed it out to everyone on security as he thought it looked suspicious   

Holiday sounds amazing - we went to Majorca a few years ago and absolutely loved it, peaceful and so beautiful and SUNNY    it'll do you the world of good! 
Xxx


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## bippy11

thanks Northern! x Ok Ill just put the vials in the clear plastic bags when going through security. I want to wrap them in bubble wrap and put them in some kind of hard box when we are travelling as Im petrified they are going to break. Good point what if my luggage gets lost.. maybe I should take needles in hand luggage too, but surely they won't allow that? I don't need to take anything that needs to be kept cold. 

Haha its funny about your partner smuggling hot chocolate powder. At least it wasn't flour or sugar, that might have raised suspicions more! Ill be taking my decaf tea and raspberry leaf tea (not that it's done much for me, but I quite like it now)


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## Northern

I just left everything in the box it came in so it's clearly medication, rather than taking out the individual vials and putting them in the liquids bag.  I put them in the same tray as my liquids bag so it didn't set the alarm off when they weren't expecting it - but meant I was less panicked about them breaking!  I never got questioned about any of it and have made 5 trips to Prague with quite a lot of drugs at times!  I think if you take a note from your clinic then it's absolutely fine.  Didn't stop me fretting a little every time we went through but no one ever bothered - they were more concerned about the number of ice packs than the medication! 
Xxx


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## fifibell

Hey Bippy The scan went well yesterday thank you for asking. everything looked good and measured up to date . it's currently looking like twins but I have another scan next Wednesday with my local NHS hospital as there was some free fluid in my uterus which they think could be due to the medication as it was not present at the time of transfer. the lady doing the scan said it shouldn't be anything to worry about but to keep an eye on it. so just feeling thankful at the moment and keeping everything crossed for more good news next Wednesday. A holiday sounds great i also traveled with medication/ injections and never had a issue, never even been stopped or questioned about it.

Kjade you must be dying to get started now not too long to go. 

hope everyone else is well, sorry for the short message but i'm on my way home from work.


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## bippy11

Oh Fifi, what a relief - congratulations!!!   I think we can give you some dancing bananas now!        Twins would be so amazing   Hoping everything is ok with the fluid, it's good if they say it's nothing to worry about, but good that they are keeping an eye on it. With twins you should get looked after well and get regular scans. So happy for you yey xx


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## Angedelight

Hi all

Eyes I am so sorry for your negative result. That's awful that someone has made an error but no one is putting their hand up. It's good you have a plan going forward- I'm surprised you've been told it needs to be abroad to adopt, like others have mentioned speak to some more agencies. Give yourself some time to get over this cycle- I know I always feel ok/numb initially but then it all comes flooding in a bit later. I hope you're doing ok.

Fifi- we've already spoken but I'm so pleased our thread is getting good news!. So happy for you both. Good luck for your next scan on Wednesday. With twins it sounds like you get scanned much more frequently which will be amazing- I think pregnancy after multiple IVFs must need a lot of reassurance!. 

KJade- definitely think there's something in your DP and mine being a bit older. And it's just easier for men to be less emotionally involved. Good Dr G confirmed without you having to pay!. Why would you need sedation during ET out of interest?. 

Northern- glad that call has been made. Must feel really good to be starting on that new path.

Bippy- a holiday sounds fab! Let's hope all the lovely sunshine and relaxing does something positive! I've taken meds on the plane loads, bought back a whole cycles worth from Athens once. Ask for a letter and you'll be fine. I've always been able to leave sharps at my clinic the other end but you can stick a box in your hold luggage. 

Hi everyone else.

We have a date for a meet up if anyone fancies it- 30th June in Birmingham. Seemed the most central option for us all last time. Be great to catch up in person with you all.

X


----------



## Northern

Eeeek they’ve just rung back - they’re coming 5th June for an initial visit! OMG PRESSURE 😬


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## bippy11

Eeek Northern!!! That's so exciting!   Im sure you will be absolutely fine, although I can imagine you will get really nervous beforehand. Have they told you anything about what will happen and if you should prepare anything? xx

MrsC thanks, I might ask for a letter, a few people have said that. The sunshine and relaxing will definitely do something positive - it'll give me a tan and relax me   Can't wait, just been to buy sun lotion (normal boots stuff for DH, expensive natural one from health shop for me - honestly what am I like!   ) 

Thanks for letting us know the meet-up date, I'll stick it in my diary, it'd be lovely to see you ladies again (and maybe meet some of you who didn't come last time too). 

How are you doing? Will you be getting going soon do you think? 

Kjade how did your treatment planning meeting go today? 

Eyes sending you hugs  

We got results back from second unk cells biopsy today - again very low, 0.84%, so it seems I fall in to the persistently low category, which has been linked to recurrent miscarriages (I am not sure about effect on implantation, will ask about that).. We have a call with Prof Brosens tomorrow evening to discuss results. In a way it's good to have some kind of possible explanation, but the problem is that there isn't much they can do about it, besides this scratch during transfer cycle, which he said is very experimental and still without proper research backup and our Dr is worried about doing it. But we'll see what Prof Brosens says tomorrow.


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## apples2014

Hey 

Where do I start? 
So much news! And I’m behind sorry xxx

Firstly yah to Fifi and the fab scan result. It must have been a special day and such a relief. Hope you are feeling well xx

Bippy Hi ya I think the others have covered the drugs and airports well. Holiday will be so lovely. Excited for you. I’ve never had anyone bat an eyelid with drugs. I brought my friends whole cycles worth of stimms
Drugs back from Prague once and they didn’t care less. 
I have to travel with clexane which is liquid in a pre prepared needle and no one cares. I just put it in the tray with my liquids and my phone and I always grab the security person and kinda whisper I have ivf drugs in the tray and they are oh okay! One time one said good luck and gave me a knowing smile but they really don’t care. Hope you okay lovely xx

Kjade how are you babe? That’s great you got the results back and know what you need for your next cycle and are gearing up again. Thinking of you. Hope all the house stuff is progressing too x

Northern that is so exciting and so FAST! Wow so happy for you two. How are you feeling? Thinking of you heaps but am so chuffed this is starting for you. My NHS scan is the same date so it’s a good date xxx

Mrs C how you doing? 
I’m sorry taken so long to reply as saw that you asked about whether me and DH had been on same page and how did we keep up the numerous cycles. 
It’s hard to answer in a quick reply but will try. 
We have been on the same page but only because we’ve literally been through so much but there was always some kind of new hope so we couldn’t give up. 
That said after the chemical again in August last year I became very low and I can hardly remember sept to Xmas I was in a dark place. 
We had a heart to heart at the very start of this year because I could not stop crying all the time. We had had FIVE blinking transfers of perfect donor embryos and had 3 chemicals and I was so down. We decided that 2018 was the cut off year as we 41 and been at it for over 4 years non stop this year and if we couldn’t get pregnant this year then we would stop and pause for the grief and reflection period and pursue adoption. But this made me very anxious as we are white British and we live in London and as you know I work for a local authority in children’s social care and know how hard adoption can be here. I met a lovely friend of a friend at a wedding last year who is an adoption social worker in the Home Counties and she helped me so much as she reassured me it was different outside of London but it would have meant moving years before we wanted to. 
But in short my head was so full of all of this and I was just very anxious. But obviously we saw Prof Brosen’s and he pushed for us to try the different protocol and we did and now it’s worked. But in short to answer your question we was close to stopping. 

The transfers prior to the donor embies was just something else and I look back now and think aw!!!!! 
We had two full stimm Ivf cycles and didn’t even manage an embryo so that was HELL! 
Then we managed an embryo and had ET and my lovely dad died 6 days later after transfer of a blood clot (unexpected he wasn’t unwell) 
So after that you can imagine! 
We then some months later met Penny and she pushed hard for us to try donor embryos but after loosing my dad I couldn’t. I wasn’t ready so we tried just us again but no more stimms.  
Then we left Penny because Gennet did natural IVF cycles for less than £800 so went there and again we knew we needed to try donor but I was just not ready. So at no stage did we really plan to have so many tries but it just worked out that way as we wasn’t ready to move on. So they just wracked up! 
I remember talking to some one once who had had 8 embryo transfers and then later on really crying when I spoke to DH about it as I was like oh my god no way could I do that many! 
But after some counselling and some reading and researching we felt good about donor but obviously how could we have known that it would have taken SIX times to crack? 
I think looking back the only reason we stayed on the same page was because we where trying different things and different clinics so it felt like we was moving forwards if that makes sense. This was the cut off year though. I wish so much last summer I had listened to Prof Brosen’s and refused the medicated protocol after he had cracked that I was just not receptive with the estrogen. But we know hindsight is a wonderful thing! 
I think also because my dad died DH was ultra gentle and didn’t push the donor earlier. He was ready to move on a cycle or two before me. I hope this makes sense! He wanted to be a Dad but didn’t mind donor but I was very stuck as I was grieving my dad. 

We both cannot believe it took 11 rounds. I can’t believe we still function! 
I can see from your signature you are trying different mixes of donor etc which I think Penny is really good at coming up with ideas (I loved Penny, we really only left serum for financial reasons and the flight was getting longer each time it felt) so you are in good hands. I have to say my DH was a lot less down and fed up with it all when we moved onto complete donor embryos as he felt more hopeful (there is also the matter that he was over the moon to stop taking proxceed and a ton of vitamins every day and could go back to drinking beer with his mates again) so this kinda helped the process too. Also don’t forget Gennet have a deal so we had the 3rd try and the 6th try of donor embryos for free as if you are not pregnant by second try of donor embies the next round is free so! 

We had one NHS cycle it was literally across March, April and May 2014 so 4 years ago now. We didn’t make a single embryo and the senior consultant at the follow up said - move to donor now. Save yourself the money and the pain. There is virtually no chance of you having your own child. It haunts me as the worst part of that meeting was looking at DH and he looked green! The shock was something else. 
I hate that he was right! He wasn’t at all empathetic and I left crying like a toddler! But since that day there has been some massive determination on our part. 
I hope my waffle helps you some how. 
Sorry this is so long! 

How soon until you go back to Greece and what did Penny suggest about your protocol? What is next for you guys? I have everything crossed for you xx

Eyes I’m so very sorry you had a negative and it sounds like they have messed you around too. How are you doing? 
I’m sorry you was also given that feedback about adoption. It’s so massively varied and massively depends where you are in the country. Don’t give up on that if that’s what you want to do. Reach out to more agencies as well. 
Also check with more international agencies as well. 
Kjade gave a really good reply about why you have to wait from IVf and to pursue adoption I only add that adoption is all about the child and the child’s need for permanence and our need to be parents and have a child is very secondary to the process, the child’s needs for permanence comes first so they need you to have made steps to move on and accept you can’t have a child yourself before you start the process if that makes sense. 
My experiences of adoption through work for couples who have moved on from IVF and move onto adoption are all really positive and people who have been through Ivf and move onto adoption make amazing empathetic parents but it’s a whole new emotive journey so they want you to be really ready for that, hence the reflective time out. 
Lots of love, a bfp is so hard xx

AFM-
I have so little to report. 
I’ve hardly posted as been so tired. I’m 10 weeks and 2 days. I’ve had some days kinda wracked with nerves and other days I’ve felt really okay. 
I know it’s a bit over the top but I’ve booked another private scan for this Friday at lunch time. I will be 11 weeks on Saturday but my NHS scan is nearer to me being 13 weeks and it feels too long. I wanted to be more cool and just manage the nerves but for the sake of £100 for the scan I’ve booked it today to help me feel less worried hopefully. 
We’ve still hardly told anyone and I’m avoiding lots of people which I totally realise is adding to me worrying as I’m kinda in my own head too much and not hanging out with friends much. DH is really chipper and happy but I can’t quiet believe it or relax yet. I know I have it in me to be happier but only after that milestone has been reached. So Friday is scan day. 

This is so long! I’m so sorry. 

Love Apples xxx

We are going on holiday on 25th June. Not booked it yet but we are going away. I’m so sorry I can’t make that date and won’t get to meet you. This thread is the best and I’m so lucky to have had the support on here xx


----------



## K jade

Just a quickie as on the phone:

Northern Yay to your initial visit ! I bet it'll go fab and they'll bite your hand off 

Apples glad all is looking good. Be interesting to have your NHS appointment. Always fascinates me how they view us ivf vets in pregnancy services .do u get more appointments / checks etc? Or are just just on the conveyor belt like every1 else?
You'll have to keep us posted ...

Bippy that's interesting about your uNKs. I wander if low ones, like yours can therefore be as problematic as high ones?
Yes a scratch is the normal go -to for building inflamation. I also wander if the serum implantation cuts would  be good for low levels.  Neupogen wash too? I'm sure that is also used too.
Anyway first of I'd try the scratch as it may be all u need. If your doc not comfy doing it can professor B do it?

Sorry can't remember who was asking about transfer sedation. .my consultant thought I may need it as on my FET last year the DR  doin it reported a very difficult transfer / bendy cervix which was hard to negotiate. 
I had mock transfer at EC she said that  IF she also found it hard too then sedation would definitely be on the cards.
Nothing was mentioned at my planning meeting yesterday so I dont know the outcone and assume all was OK.  But I'll ask at my scan.
Anyway starting eastrogen in 2ish weeks.  
SET as nurse agreed that my plan of doing my goodies on their own was good. If no joy the lesser 2 blasts will be transfered 2gether.
Need to arrange intralipids. Crgw no longer doing them so will need to go to Sutton Colefield!  2 long hrs away!!!


----------



## K jade

Bippy how  did phonecall go? X


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## bippy11

Kjade looks like we might be transferring around similar time in the end after the delays we both had. Shame you have to travel such a long way for your intralipids. 


The call went as expected. Yes low can be problematic also, they have found that 85% of patients with persistently low uNKcells are miscarriage patients. The thing is with high there is treatment - steroids etc - but with low there is no established treatment. He stressed again that doing the scratch mid-transfer cycle is very experimental but in theory should increase uNKcells, which in turn would improve lining as they would filter out 'bad stressed out' cells. I asked about Neupogen wash too, thanks for the suggestion, but he said no to that. 

I don't think we will do the scratch this time round (he did offer they would do it for free) but we will definitely leave out the steroids and intralipids. My lining hasn't behaved normally for the last two cycles having had a biopsy the previous cycle, so I don't know what would happen if we scratch in the actual cycle. Anyway we'll probably be on holiday during the time the scratch should ideally take place, so that helps make the decision for us. 

Its interesting though that when I had my blood immunes done they showed high, which is why we did all the steroids and intralipids in some previous cycles. So it means us patients have to decide which to believe - blood nkcells or unkcells. To me logically it makes more sense that the unkcells is the thing to focus on, but it's difficult when none of this is standard and different docs say different things. 


Ive got my drugs letter for the airport so feeling more relaxed about that - thanks ladies for your advice   Can't wait for holiday, work is busy and feel a bit frazzled!  

Fifi did you have a scan today? Hope it went well. xx


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## K jade

Oh Bippy what a draining few weeks you've had.
That's really interesting what prof Q/Bs clinic are now  saying about low uNKs .
85% is a huge proportion yet for ages they made out that it was HIGH uNKs that were problematic . It seems like they are learning too and I guess with the reasearch being ongoing different things are coming out all the time. 

I completely understand u not wanting to do the scratch. 
Hopefully this time round with no immune meds  will do the trick for u.
Out of interest do u know what level they class as low? 
Sounds like this holiday is definitely in order for u !! Xx


----------



## bippy11

Thank you Kjade    
They are still saying that high are also problematic and whether you are high or low, it's mainly an issue if it's persistent, ie from more than just one biopsy. Yes they are definitely learning, he told us that, the low thing has literally only just been added in the last month based on results from last year - in the result from my first biopsy there wasn't a 'low' region on their graph yet, he just told us about it, but now with this latest one they have added it on the graph. 
The level depends on what day after ovulation it is as they adjust for that. For day 7 after ovulation is looks like its below 1% on the graph. 
Did you have biopsies done there? x


----------



## bippy11

Here's what's going through my mind and I think it might be a bit crazy, but once I had the thought I can't get rid of it now.. Im worried that if we do get pregnant and don't miscarry and have a baby there might be something wrong with it because in its very early stage which is so important for development it will have had a supply of rubbish blood with too many stressed out cells. That can't be good for a little newly developing baby.  

In a way I want to do this scratch, but then I know that we've just had two consecutive cancelled cycles, so Im scared to do something that might disturb the lining again. Also as Dr and DH don't want to do scratch, it would mean convincing them / pushing for it - and how can I do that when I am not even sure myself and Prof B stressed to us that it is highly experimental.. Oh it's so hard to know what to do.   But like I said, I think the timing of our holiday might make the decision for us anyway, but that doesn't seem to be stopping it from going round my head constantly!!

Apples could I ask - I think you had 5 (?) biopsies with Prof B and he recommended you did a natural FET based on receptivity results? But was that the ERA test? Because he rubbished the ERA test when I asked him about that. Or was it some other way of measuring receptivity? 
It's good you've got a scan booked on Friday hun, if I get pregnant again at some point Ill be exactly the same and need lots of scans. £100 is worth it for reassurance and it's hardly going to break the bank compared with everything else you've had to fork out over the years! xx


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## K jade

bippy11 said:


> was that the ERA test? Because he rubbished the ERA test when I asked him about that. xx


Ehhh.......? 

come to think of it I was surprised when Apples said that Professor B was an advocate of the ERA and was indeed _offering_ it.. I would have though the ERA was exactly the type of thing he would dismiss instantly. 
So whats going on here then...?

Apples!!!!! Shed some light for us LOL  . we are intrigued ...

Bippy I know how you feel sometimes all sorts of things go round our head. if it isn't the stress of infertility its the added worry of will any resulting child be affected by my un-cooperative body. 
with regards to special needs and birth defects they are pretty much completely down to genetics and chromosome abnormalities so i wouldn't stress as we are all at the same risk of them. my sister had no fertility issues and no issues in pregnancy and has a very difficult child who is a nightmare to live with day in day out. 
she was also only 26 when she had him. 
its just something we have no control over and signing up to being a parent does come with lots of uncertainty. but try not to worry as ultimately most women don't have this biopsy done so god knows how many healthy children are born from linings with low uNKs. I would imagine quite a lot!

that's_ really_ interesting about this new LOW category in the Coventry biopsy . 
yes i had the one biopsy there last year. may time. 
it was 2.02% and classed as normal. they did not recommend a 2nd one. 
however i would have liked a 2nd one to see what the results would be. ...... mmmmmm lots of food for thought here. ..
xx


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## apples2014

My monster manager isn’t here right now so I can reply. 

Bippy your holiday is fates way of telling you it’s not meant to be the scratch right now. 
I hate the dilemmas though honey. It’s hard but I think your holiday is calling and there is your answer. 

My epic saga with Coventry and scratches went like this ...

Prague July 2016 for ERA biopsy. Result came back as Pre Receptive, meaning my uterus was not switched on and to over come this told to take progesterone pessaries one day earlier before FET so for 6 days not 5! 

Saw Quenby in August 2016 NK cells came back at 15 per cent! 
Told to take steroids and had my first chemical with this transfer. 

Went back in see them again in November 2016 the result was just over 5. Told don’t really need steroids but as it was high before take then. Had a ET in December 2016 and has a flat BPN this was 3rd try on perfect donor embies. 

February 2017 go back to repeat biopsy as this was offered and met Prof Brosen’s. He said how on Earth do you know your pre Receptive is corrected by guessing that you add progesterone a day early? Could have hugged him as we had asked Gennet this and they said it just was and to do it! 
So he kindly offered that instead of me having an ET in March I come back for a dummy cycle so to take all my medication that I should take for the transfer following the era biopsy protocol so I took the estogren and the progesterone and went back on the day I would normally have transfer. 

And the result was very upsetting - not receptive. 
My NK results this time were 2 percent so no steroids suggested again after this. 

Told Gennet they rejected it and said they didn’t agree and must stick to ERA FET protocol so did and in April May 2017 had another chemical. 

I reached out to Prof in an email and he kindly offered me the chance to repeat the dummy cycle but adding more progesterone! 

Had the results in July 2017 - not receptive. 
NK cells 1.8 I think! 
Can’t remember! 

Discussion with Gennet and they said no do the medication FET but Coventry suggested trying natural FET but well you know this we did as Gennet told us and had the 5th ET for donor embryo and had 3rd chemical pregnancy in August 2017. 

Very lost and sad for ages! 

Went to see Coventry in Feb for repeat biopsy as it had been some time and results was 3 per NK cells and obviously it was a normal natural cycle so no dummy medication cycle and my lining as receptive so with no estrogen I’m receptive. 

So this time we just told Gennet no way natural FET and I’m almost 11 weeks (hope so much all okay. Scan is tomorrow and I’m really anxious today). I never had a sense that he was a huge massive fan of ERA he didn’t say that to me but he was mega curious how my Clinic was so sure the extra progesterone would over come the none receptiveness - but this proved my Clinic wrong. 

He basically felt sorry for us as we had had 8 or 9 transfers by the time we met him I think. 

I hope that makes sense!

Writing this out makes me realise how lost we was as the facts were in our face! I wasn’t receptive at all but kept trying! Grrr! 

I hope this helps! 

Love Apples xxx


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## bippy11

Kjade and Applies, thank you so much, you have made me feel so much better about this dilemma. Kjade really helps reading your post, you make some good points that have eased my mind, thank you so much! And Apples - you're right, I will leave it to fate to make the decision that as Im on holiday I can't do it. Phew ok. That feels better, hopefully now I can stop worrying about it. 

Apples it's interesting that you were not receptive on oestrogen, I had thought that ERA was mainly to do with progesterone, but it makes sense that there are many factors that play in to whether the lining is receptive, including what drugs you use to build it up. My lining never responded well to oestrogen, it never got thick enough. I had my ERA test when we stimulated with merional. 

Gosh Apples what a biopsy nightmare you've been through. But you've got there in the end and Im sure things will be fine tomorrow.   xx

Kjade you should definitely go ahead with your transfer. If things don't work out then maybe you could consider another biopsy - they might do it free - now when you pay you automatically pay for 2 (included in the £540 price), but I don't know if it was different back when you did your first one. With 2.02% it depends on what day after ovulation you had it - if 7 days after, it would be in normal range, but if 10 days after it might be in low range. You could always contact them and ask whether they could tell you where your result would fall now with the new ranges. Thing is if it's low, then the advice would be not to take steroids etc, going against your Dr's advice based on your blood immunes. Aargh   But anyway, hopefully things will work out for you this next transfer and you won't have to worry about it!! xx


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## K jade

bippy thanks hun, I replied to your PM

it was day 7 after positive ovulation test. or maybe even  6 actually. so u 2.02 would sit in the normal place you reckon? 
clear blue smiley face test was positive on the TUESDAY morning then I had the biopsy on the following MONDAY. however MrB recorded it as 7 days. so I think that was wrong. 

I debated and debated calling up Coventry and asking about where I would sit now that they have a new category on their graph. but today I decided there was no point. I will transfer this time with immunes. not taking immunes has not worked for me so it makes sense to try them. 

secondly the month I had the biopsy I had a very short cycle. ov was day 10ish. normally its at least day12. so I think that may have affected the results as biopsy was done earlier than on a normal cycle. 

it definitely seems that ladies with high blood NKs and Low uNks are problematic and it would be really good if they could investigate this further. 

interestingly I've never heard of anyone having low blood and high uNKs. that seems to be an unheard of pattern! xxx


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## apples2014

Hey! 

Hope everyone okay. 

I’ve never heard of anyone with high blood and low cells either! Kjade you have a good plan there. Looking forward to your transfer honey. 
Thinking of you. 
How is the house stuff progressing? 

Big hi ya to everyone else! 

I caved and had another scan today. 
I thought after the one just b4 9 weeks I could be cool and wait for mh NHS one but I’ve been so worried and flat, flat is a good word. Not sad or unhappy but not chipper either so booked one for today. 
It was worth every penny. 
First time ever had a tummy scan and could see a baby waving at us and he/she kicked a leg so put on a performance! We also heard a heart beat for the first time and measuring on track. Was really good. We are so relieved. 
DH was so chuffed, it’s his birthday tomorrow. 41! Eeek! He wanted to try some nice fish restaurant near Covent Garden so I’m taking him out for nice lunch tomorrow. 

Anyways I just wanted to share. 
It’s such a relief xxxx

Love Apples xx


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## StrawberrySundae

Hello ladies, sorry to hijack thread - could I ask a question here about the Coventry tests etc - I had the uterine biopsy in 2016 and had nk Chicago bloods elsewhere about the same time - I had normal womb biopsy results & some slightly elevated blood results. Also had nk bloods redone in Greece this jan & they we’re apparently worse. I found the biopsy excruciating so don’t really want to repeat that, but I haven’t investigated the ERA tests & don’t know much about it - could anyone briefly summarise it please? 

I know this thread is for multiple bfn’s, but my results have got worse since my 1st mc (have had 6 altogether), seem to have lost earlier & earlier with only cp or bfn the last 12 months (last 2 transfers were disastrous however, so not surprised there was no implantation even tho we used DE). Probably moving onto DD at Serum with some immune support, but scared how bad things have gone & how long this is taking!   Am into transfer #8 next time!!   Any ideas much appreciated. Wishing you all luck x


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## K jade

strawberry we have spoken before, I'm so sorry your last cycle wasn't successful, sounds like a dodgy transfer could be to blame as you say. 
don't worry there's no criteria for posting here. m/c's , implantation failure... its all sh!t!!!    I doubt anyone would join us  for fun LOL! 

ERA I haven't had done myself but as your experiencing m/c's I would wander if that was relevant to you. I think with unreceptive lining, nothing can implant at all. or maybe ever so slightly resulting in tiny amounts of hcg. 
Apples is the queen of ERA but I think it basically involves a mock cycle where you take all your drugs  so a bit of a faff. just like the Quenby biopsy they withdraw a piece of your lining on implantation day then test the  genes to see if the receptors are switched on. for some people its been very worthwhile and made all the difference. 
im also low uNKs and high bloods. it is a really problematic pattern to have Drs are at complete  loggerheads about it . 
the approach where they rely primarily on blood NKs  does seem to be falling out of favour and lots of people are veering towards quenbys approach . which is no immune meds unless high uNKs. 
But I'm about to go against that which feels scary! my next cycle with involve clexane , high dose steroids and intralipids. I know if ProfB got wind of that he would vomit! my Unk's are only 2%   .
that's great your with serum . I hope they can get you success on your next go whether it be with another DE or DD 

Apples that's amazing to hear , you are well on your way!!
lovely that DH was there too. cannot wait to hear if your team pink or blue either !!


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## bippy11

Sorry, it'll have to be a quick one from me. 

kjade, so sorry to bring confusion and uncertainty to you hun! I think you are right - go with the plan you had agreed with your Doctor for this upcoming cycle. Im glad it's not only me who has these crazy worries about if I have a baby, will there be anything wrong.. but for now, let's take our worries one step at a time and firstly worry about getting to transfer   xx

Apples wow - amazing, so happy for you guys and happy birthday to your DH - what a birthday present eh?!!   xxx

Strawberry, welcome to the thread, I am so sorry to hear about your long and difficult journey   If you do ever do the Coventry biopsy again you can ask for gas and air - makes it less painful. You also need a biopsy done for the ERA test. The ERA test is supposed to show if your lining is receptive on day 5 of progesterone (ie on transfer day). I slightly more trust Coventry uNKcells research as that is done as part of an open NHS research project and is more reasonably priced, whereas the ERA test is done by only one clinic in Spain (you can have the biopsy done in UK, but they have to send it to that spanish clinic for analysis). They won't share the method with other clinics so it's not possibly to verify it, and it's a good money making scheme for them. Saying that though, I had it and if I hadn't I would probably be wondering whether to do it. 
Have you had any of the embryos or miscarriages genetically tested? 

Fifi, I hope everything is ok with you hun? I think you maybe had a scan on Wednesday? xx

Happy Friday everyone   I don't know if Ill be able to come on much again as we've gotta pack tomorrow, then go to a wedding in the evening, then come back Sunday to pick up bags and then off to the airport! Woohoo!   xxx


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## bippy11

kjade snap we posted at the same time  

I went to recurrent miscarriage clinic today to have a bunch of repeat bloods taken. There was a woman in before me who was really scared of needles and it took ages for them to be able to take her blood. I felt quite hard when I went in and was totally cool and like yeah, just take your 6 vials of blood no problem. Us IVFers are hardcore when it comes to needles


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## StrawberrySundae

Thanks K Jade, I can't decide what is the best next step. Hmm maybe era not needed yet   DH wants to just do transfers & not keep hanging around spending money on tests as he feels it's more a matter of luck, but that approach could be wasting money & time too, it's hard to know!   Maybe with a decent transfer I could experiment better & cut out that as a negative factor! I was having MC's but not even had those (thank goodness though!) for quite a while. I was dreaming about being pregnant last night and trying to work out how many months I was   My last clinic dr was inexperienced I think & only had me on 2x 2mg progynova per day which I think was too small a dose, didn't exactly help build up the normal lining   

Good luck with your next go, think I'm on same things - clexane, prednisolone & Intrallipids. Yes Prof B might not agree, he wasn't in favour of PGS but I still had it on 3 cycles! Those ones didn't work!! 

Bippy yes I know the feeling of getting hardened to needles etc! I still have to look away but just get on with it these days! I've had some of the embryos tested & hopefully DD should overcome that issue as well! Have a fun wedding! 

Happy weekend All  x


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## Roxychick1976

Apples tried sending you a PM but your mail box is full 😉

Amazing news Apples ❤ So happy for you!!! Wow 10wks and 6 days I think I read xx just totally awesome 👏 

I had my transfer today of 2 embies one 9 cells & excellent and the other 6 cells very very good ❤❤ Very happy to have got to transfer stage!!! Been chilling today and fly home Thursday! 

Just want to congratulate you and let you know that I am following your updates 😉!!! 

Take care lovely and enjoy this amazing time. 
Lots of love 😘 xx


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## K jade

Bippy we are hardcore . Moments like that make us realise it too

Strawberry Ive realised it's such a dilemma trying to decide whether to just go for more transfers OR keep testing until u get that definitive answer. I've pretty much had every test possible and I've realised that even now I can't be 100% sure why my cycles have all failed. I don't know if there ever _is_ a definitive answer. I'm starting to think the more I look the more confused i lbecome! Transfering gives u that chance of a baby. But testing does not i guess

Roxychick good luck !

Hope everyone's ok . I'm off this week. Just had parents and newphew visit. Parents didn't mention brother and SILs baby whatsoever - elephant in the room! And my DH STILL doesn't know! ! 
Newphew alot better however and no meltdowns so that's positive.

Still having major wobbles about my upcoming FET and mega dose of pred starting @ day 5. I'm not pinning my hopes on a positive outcome here. .. 
I can almost visualise someone like prof B dry retching at someone like me taking pred so early. Or at all.
I need to have more conviction. I chose to go to DrG because I have faith in his success rates. Just hope it pays off xx


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## StrawberrySundae

KJade that is such a funny image of Prof B dry retching   Yes it's hard to know what's the best thing to do. Keep trying I suppose! All the best with your upcoming cycle! 

Roxychick good luck to you too with your tww!

Does anyone know if it's possible to speak with Prof Quenby or Brosens for further advice on the phone a couple of yrs after seeing them for a biopsy?

Thanks xx


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## K jade

Ha strawberry I can just see it now ! Yes..he would not be impressed. 
What do u make of serum? I hear such good things about penny .I have done for many years. If things don't work out for me with my frosties then I've a feeling penny and I are going to be well acquainted ..
Regarding your question i would like to know the answer myself as id like to know where I fare on their graph now that they have this new _low_ category ..

Bippy hope your having a lovely relaxing time away

Hi to everyone else. Hope ur enjoyingthe lovely sunny weather. Exactly 1 month till I transfer. Let's see if I can finally do it. Pha!! Sorry but hard not to laugh at yourself sometimes isn't it 

Girls who are not aware we are also planning another meet up on the 30th this month vodka revs Birmingham town centre -all welcome xx


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## StrawberrySundae

There are so many positive things said about Serum, Peny is really nice and supportive   It’s good that they have plenty of experience and successes. My 2 OE transfers there were both fine (unlike recent Russian clinic   ) and I had a twin mc there on my first go, so at least the embryos implanted I suppose! It’s good that serum are willing to be flexible with protocols & work with immune meds. Other than that, it seems to come down to another roll of the dice! x


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## bippy11

Hola chickas! Im back from sunny Majorca. It was a wonderful break, we stayed in a small town by a stunning and very unspoilt beach. We ate and drank what we wanted and just relaxed and had fun. Perfect   and we got started on injections - managed to get all our drugs through the airport, thanks to all your tips there were no issues   

Roxychick good luck for your 2 week wait, sounds like a promising start. Fingers crossed it works for you xx

Fifi how are you doing hun? Really hope everything is still on track? xxx

Kjade and Strawberry, I am sure Coventry would speak to you - there is no harm in asking. I think just email Kerri, explain that you had the biopsy a while ago but you would like to have a quick chat with Prof B / Q about your results before upcoming cycles. xx

Northern you've got your visit coming up eeek! Are you ready? How are you feeling? x 

Eyes hope you are ok. Have you had any further progress speaking with the clinics? x

Apples hope you had a lovely day for DHs birthday and you are enjoying pregnancy yay   x

Mrs C - any news on a timeline for you? What's next? x

We had a call from RMC while away - they managed to mess up the bloods! Something like they got them to the lab too late to be able to test them.. seriously does this happen to everyone? Is the NHS completely incompetent or have we just been particularly unlucky?? Got a bit upset, but a day on the beach made it better. Anyway I explained to them that I am now on medication, but they said that I can still come and do the bloods again, so Im going back on Tuesday for another 6 vials. I might escort them to the lab myself!!!


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## K jade

oh wow bippy the NHS never fail with you do they!  good job your a pro at having bloods taken. 
glad you had a lovely holiday. sounds right up my street to be honest.

strawberry good to hear you have also had a positive experience with serum. I don't think I've ever seen a bad word about them. I agree sometimes I think this is just a blxxdy numbers game and it doesn't make a blind bit of difference what you do or don't do. 

afm I need to get my drugs from hospital pharmacy . keep putting it off as just haven't had the time. before I know it itll be day 1 and I wont have my progynova! arrgghhh. don't want that!
poor fur baby cut her foot in the river on Sunday , its swollen up like a ballon and she's not a happy bunny. vets this morning where she had 2 injections.  even less of a happy bunny after that!  
moving all seems to be going to plan. surveyor to go in this week and check for any nasty surprised. fingers crossed we get the all  clear!
xx


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## bippy11

Thanks kjade, I had the bloods done today and made my contact promise to confirm for me once they had reached the lab, which she has now done. It might mean that our follow up consultation will be postponed though if the results don't come through in time, but she is going to keep an eye on that and let me know. Yes the NHS are not in my best books at the moment.. ! Glad we're private with our actual IVF treatment, despite the cost. 

Yes make sure you get your progynova hun, when are you expecting to start? 
oh no, even your poor dog is having injections! Hope her foot gets better quick. 
It's good your moving is all going to plan, wow there's a lot going on for you at the moment! In a way it might keep you distracted a bit, which might be helpful. 

My lining looked promising yesterday, but that happened before and it's still early days and with 2 cancelled cycles behind us I am staying cautious. But it really HAS to go ahead this time!!


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## apples2014

Hi ya 

Bippy your holiday sounds lovely. 

I cannot believe they lost your blood. Well I can but really! 
It’s lovely to hear from you and hope all is good. 

Kjade not long now. I’m hoping so much for you. My cycle buddy from Gennet who has a one year old now was on 20 mg of pred maybe even 25 from cycle day 6 of her winning cycle. I think you in good hands and it’s worth trying xxxxxxxx
Hope all the house stuff is progressing. 

Northern how was yesterday? 
How did it go? I’ve been thinking of you guys lots. Big hugs. 

Mrs C how are you? Xx

Hi to eyes and strawberry sundae and anyone else I’m missing xx

Roxy I’ve inboxed you but sending you lots of love for your two week wait. How are you? 

I’ve not been on here much but just had a read back. 
All okay and I guess I’m ready to believe now. Had the nhs 12 weeks scan yesterday and the blood tests and everything was fine. I’m 12 weeks and 4 days today. 
Baby is growing on track and we are still due on 15th December. I’ve been feeling more confident and less worried this last couple of weeks but yesterday has helped cement that. 
Next scan is 30th July. 
Not much else to report. 
I still keep thinking 11 embryo transfers and I want to drop it and move on. I guess I’m processing but I’m more relaxed than was so I’m getting there. It’s a relief. 

How is everyone else? 

We booked a trip to Provence so going to France 25th June to 3rd July so happy about that. I don’t mind one bit I can’t drink the wine and eat the cheese but I can stuff myself with pastries ha ha 

Lots of love 
Apples xxx


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## K jade

apples holiday sounds absolutely amazing!
wow you passed the 12 weeks mark. what a milestone. this is happening! arrgghh!! 

bippy how are things on the lining front? 
doggy's foot much better now thank god

well im not on progynova as it happens . they have changed it to elleste solo. I guess its basically the same thing
anyone head of this?
x


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## bippy11

oh Apples Im so happy for you, such wonderful news   it's so good that you can now finally start to relax and bit and enjoy it all. so deserved after all you have been through! I really hope some of the rest of us can follow you soon!   
France sounds great, you just enjoy those pastries   xx

kjade, Ive never heard of Elleste, but I guess it must be the same thing, otherwise they wouldn't have just changed it without discussing it with you surely. Have you been to get it now then? Hopefully you can get started soon. xx

I've got another scan tomorrow so will get an update on the lining then. Quite nervous, really really don't want to end up with another cancelled cycle. 

Aw I just got a thank you letter and certificate in the post for my volunteering running the support group and one of those cute pineapple pins. What a lovely surprise to come home to!


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## Angedelight

Hi all

Bippy I'm so pleased you had a lovely holiday. I cannot believe you've had a further mess up with test results due to bloods going missing. Very frustrating!. That's lovely you got a thank you letter for running the group. Little touches like that mean so much. Keeping everything crossed that your lining plays ball and you can get going!.

Apples- congrats on passing a huge milestone!!. So happy for you. Are you sharing your news yet?. Your holiday you've booked sounds lovely. How are you feeling in yourself- are you having many symptoms??.

KJade- hope your dog is ok now. Fingers crossed for a good survey report.

Strawberry- think we've been on some Serum threads together. Sorry for all your losses. Agree how nice and supportive Penny is, makes such a difference. Hope you've figured out your next steps.

Hi roxychick. Keeping everything crossed for a positive outcome.

Hi everyone else, Northern, Carrie, Fifi and anyone else reading, couldn't scroll back too far.

I had my results and follow up with Prof B. First one was normal but high normal, second was high. He has recommended 20mg pred from day before ET. He thinks all other immune stuff is ********!. Given that I had pre treatment  steroids and intralipids last time and nothing happened despite 2 top quality DE blasts I'll give his advice a go. I also did a free 30 minute consult with Locus Medicus who did nothing but bang on about my PCOS- this was an initial diagnosis but later ruled out. Also why aren't I using my eggs- that ships sailed mate!. Then said about treating my high blood NKS with LIT?!. Errrr why do you test the killing power with intralipids then?. All very odd. 

I did think about seeing Dr G but then the money I had put aside for him we've just spent on a garden revamp!. So I'll go with what Prof B says. My head will explode with another different opinion. CD1 came the other day and I had a mad moment and said let's just go for the FET this cycle so we are!. Less time to think about it and not told a soul in real life. I don't even want to tell work but there's the small matter of needing a couple days off to go to Athens. Lining scan Tuesday then will know more from that.

X


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## StrawberrySundae

MrsC that’s exciting suddenly going for your FET - hope you have a good lining scan   Are you still with Serum? I saw Locus Medicus as well and although they were really nice it was similar & they were advocating LIT and wanting me to be going over several times, which I told them I couldn’t as I live in England! It does get very confusing when you get advice from several places   Dr G was the most horrible dr I’ve seen. I really liked Prof B though & he basically said to me it’s just a matter of keeping trying! 

Bippy good luck with your lining scan too! Volunteering sounds a really positive thing to do.

KJade sorry not heard of Elleste  

Apples a holiday in Provence sounds lovely! 

Hi to everyone else   

I’m probably not quite in the right thread but it’s been nice joining in since my last 2 transfers were bfn’s and my fertility journey’s been so long. Got to get lucky eventually I hope! Same to all of you, good luck! 🍀 xx


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## K jade

strawberry its so hard isn't it getting all these opinions. 
ha! not everyone is a fan of Dr G . I do like ProfB but I just find his approach very disempowering. 
keep trying there's nothing you can do to increase your chances?! thanks mate but at £3000 a go that's not really a viable option. 
yeh not a fan of Locus medicus . they're all over the palace . but they sent a package to me marked HIDDEN CLAMYDIA TEST and my neighbours signed for it so didn't really get off to a good start with them

bippy how was scan? I hope it went well really keep it crossed for you. 

MrsC its all go for you.  I have a good feeling for lucky number 7 for you!


feeling glum today
as another cycle approaches I just cannot see this working for me. my body. pregnant. just cannot see it. 
I also feel like im  gonna be the last person on earth to have a baby. Literally as soon as I even THINK that someone I know might, just might be struggling to conceive, they turn round and say they are preggers. I feel like the Queen is gonna announce she is preggers before I do.


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## bippy11

Hey ladies, 

So far, so good, lining is looking good this time, had scan both yesterday morning and this morning. Have another scan Monday evening and hopefully will then trigger Monday evening, which will mean transfer the following Monday. But Im trying not to get ahead of myself and just really hope it actually happens this time! Doc is convinced that the reason my lining didn't behave normally in the last two cycles was because of the biopsies. 

Kjade, I know it's hard to believe, but one day it will happen for you hun. Hopefully one day very soon! Hope you are feeling a bit better today. Im kind of thinking that this go will (HAS TO) work, but that's mainly because I can't bear thinking about if it doesn't. 

MrsC, nice to hear from you, exciting that you'll be going this cycle too! What meds will you be using to thicken your lining or are you doing natural? It's great that you got your results back from Coventry and have a recommendation from them to follow. The other consultation sounds confusing! I think it gets tricky when we get too many docs involved because they all seem to have different opinions!   

Strawberry I think you're in the right place with your long journey of bfns and mcs. Ive had a mixture of bfns and mcs too. There's no strict criteria and it's nice to have you here   x

We got our response letter from our complaint back from the hospital today (after 4 months!) Despite the long wait, I am happy with their response, it seems that they really have taken it seriously and did a thorough investigation and have put some things in place to try to ensure that something like that wouldn't happen again.


----------



## K jade

just a quickie to say Bippy hooray for the nice juicy lining!!! 
yeh it sounds like the biopsies were  maybe over zealous and its taken your lining some time to recover xxx


----------



## K jade

Well I cannot beleive I'm writing this but my FET has been cancelled as my clinic are having a refurbishment . I found out today. Because I phoned them as it's day 1. 
I have now had a year of cancelled cycles.
1.poor response 
2. I od'd on  burselin 
3.ohss
4. Refurb? ! 

I've gone from BFN s to not actually getting to transfer. It's somehow worse!! 
Transfering embies to private clinic  not an option we have No money and car has just packed in.
Complaining  . Probs just gonna cause noise but not really achieve anything .
Feel so disempowered right now .
All these delays have achieved nothing and DP and I are older but no further foward.
Also whilst I'm not old DP is 45 next month and if we ever have a child( cause I think it'll still take anther 5 years)  he will be into his 60s collecting them from school and I worry child will be challenging at an age where he is unable to cope with it .
Dunno just feel like giving up right now


----------



## bippy11

oh no kjade!!! I cannot believe Im reading this!! Seriously?? That's crazy! And they didn't even tell you or warn you so you could consider what to do?? That's really bad. In fact that's ridiculous - you've been in touch with them about getting the medication etc haven't you? It's not as if they weren't aware that you were planning to go soon and couldn't have warned you?? I'm so sorry hun. What did they say - can you go next cycle? 
You did have a fab egg collection this year and got some excellent frosties, so at least you have moved forward and have got them waiting for you and they are not getting older. But sorry if that's annoying, just trying to think of something positive. 
I know what you mean worrying about age and how old you / DP will be if you do get pregnant, I do that too and whilst I was only 32 when we started, I am now an old hag at 38 and I wish I wouldn't be such an old mum (if I am ever lucky enough to become a mum..). But what I try to do when I think like that is tell myself to focus on one step at a time (I don't always listen to myself though!) 
Big hugs to you hun, don't give up, but have a big glass of wine / chocolate / whatever you fancy   xxx

I feel a bit bad now telling you this, but we actually had good news today that (hopefully) we can finally go ahead with transfer. Lining was 8.6mm today, which is as good as it gets with me and we are triggering tonight at midnight (will have to set the alarm, no way can I stay up till then!) Then start lubion injections later this week and transfer next Monday. yey


----------



## rubyring

Hi everyone,
Sorry I'm rubbish at posting, but I do read and try to follow what's going on with everyone. But I introduced myself a while ago......


bippy - good luck!! How lovely to set the alarm for an injection...
Kjade - I can't believe the excuse is refurb!! You couldn't make it up! So when CAN you cycle according to the clinic? As for age, I'm totally in denial / panic. But I might be able to make you feel better........ I was 50 last summer, which was such a painful birthday I didn't want any celebration or fuss. My DH is 7 years older than me. So I do really think I'm crazy to continue, and I know others would think I'm crazy too. My DH would rather I stop. I am close but hate to fail. Especially after spending so much money I daren't add it up. I've had extremely bad luck, as all of us on this thread, and I didn't start IVF until I was 42, didn't meet DH until 38 etc etc. The only good thing is I don't look my age (so I'm told), and friends have mostly done the baby thing. My DH's friends' kids have done university!!
Strawberry - I think you said you're with the MC doc in Epsom? Me too. Though he hasn't found the answer for me yet.....


I'll continue in a mo - got to speak to a plumber cos our loo has broken. Lovely!!


----------



## rubyring

So, I've been getting conflicting advice since my last cycle. My clinic in Spain recommended 3 months of down regulation with Prostap (because of endo) and a hysteroscopy before another final cycle. That would have to be the last one due to my age and be done by July this year. So no pressure or stress there then!!
My MC doc in Epsom didn't think any of that was necessary. He said endo at my old age was much less active / less of an issue. Thanks. He said I've had plenty of scans etc and didn't need a hysto. To be fair he was trying to save me money, although he wanted one of his blood tests repeated - which was again fine. I think he thinks everything is sorted by immunes tx. But hardly anything has come up for me on his testing. Even so he wants to add more immune tx, GCSF injections. 
In the meantime I've found a new clinic with no age limit, in Cyprus. They thought the Prostap wasn't necessary but that a hysto was a good idea. So I had the hysto in Epsom done by the main doc's colleague. This doc found I have a heart shaped uterus, there is a septum! I can't believe no one has found this before!! This can be removed in another hysto I presume. More ££££. I'm going to try to find out if Epsom can do it / think it's necessary. But I wanted to ask, has anyone here had the Serum hysto? It sounds good but frightening!
As for the Coventry biopsy, I just can't face that. I'm not on steroids anyway, I'm on hydroxy instead. And I'm sure my doc doesn't believe in it.
And someone was talking about ERA test. Well I'm no expert obviously but I think it's nonsense! On my 1st DE cycle (my best cycle to date!) I got the progesterone pessaries wrong and only took half the dose before ET. I was so worried I'd messed the whole thing up. But it was fine until the MMC, which could have been due to chromosomes, hydrosalpinx, immunes, the septum. So being on more even progesterone than they first recommend seems daft when it worked up to 7+ weeks with only half the dose!


So, anyone been for the greek hysto? Anyone else getting confused by docs who just do what they do and believe what they believe when maybe the whole picture needs to be looked at?
Whoever it was said the Queen is more likely to get pregnant before me - I totally feel the same here!!!


----------



## K jade

bippy yes yes yes for getting an amazing lining! this is happening now after a couple of false starts ! bet you cant wait to get embie on board 

Rubyring so sorry u have had so much conflicting advice. it really sends your head spinning doesn't it. I just feel that because IVF is such a money making  business , each doc will tell you its their way or the highway. they wont work together as ultimately they are all in competition with each other. 
I do believe in immunes but I think there  is a time and a place for it, and  not everything m/c or implantation failure  can be attributed to immune issues. if nothing much came back from your immune tests, and your using DE that makes me think it could be something else and it sounds like you've cracked something by finding a septum. I'm pretty sure there's a lady on FF with 5OE failure and 4DE failures who finally had success after septum was removed. 
yes there are a few ladies on this thread  who have had serum hysto and I think they would probably speak very highly of it. From my understanding  it is far more thorough than hystos at other clinics and if anything is wrong they will find it and they will do their very best to correct it, unlike UK Clinics who may tell you that's just the way you are. 
Yes i'm with you on ERA I'm not 100% about it. 
there is a lady on here called Apples and  having the ERA was key for her, but that was more an issues of identifying the  artificial  oestrogen was completely shutting down her receptivity , rather than taking the progesterone at the wrong time. 
regarding the older parent thing I'm really positive about older parents. (apart from yesterday when I decided I'm going to be 90 when it eventually  happens for me  ) .  I just think you have so much more to offer a child. experience, wisdom, financial security (Ok I know that's not necessarily a given after multiple ivf rounds ), time , patience. Plus the amount of elderly grandparents I see pushing prams around as they are full time carers for their grandchildren while their own children are at work, and yet no -one seems to bat an eyelid at that. 

thanks both for the kind words, I had total meltdown last night. several cups of tea and packets of biscuits  later and I felt better. 
anyway I spoke with the nurse this morning and she just said she was so sorry , but the painting fumes meant it would be dangerous to bring any embies out during that time . she said none of the staff were aware until yesterday it was just sprung on them . anyway I just said that's OK, I certainly wasn't going to ear- bash her. 
DP thinks its a good thing as it would have been stressful doing this and moving house together  and this means someone's watching over us and wants it to happen for us.  er......OK . he was clearly  in a good mood yesterday. 
xx


----------



## rubyring

Well I wrote a fabulous post, very witty, informative etc but I just lost it all!!  
Kjade - thank you for your post. I think we're in the same place with all this head spinning advice! And the immunes and ERA. I think I probably have some immune issues but not extreme, and I've done 2 cycles with immune and nothing has happened at all! I've had 2 different donors, done PGS. My DH really doesn't want us to use donor sperm but he was OK we were told. Maybe the septum is the issue? Who knows. Can you remember who it was who had success after a septum was removed?

I'd still love to hear from anyone who's had the Serum hysto please....
How are you doing? Biscuits are great........ when do you think you'll be able to cycle? So exciting you're moving house, I wish we were. Maybe next year...
Bippy - all OK?
Hope everyone is doing OK today x


----------



## bippy11

Rubyring nice to hear from you. I don't know much about septums, but it sounds like that is definitely worth getting removed and maybe that could make the difference for you. How frustrating this wasn't found earlier. I haven't had the Serum hysto so can't help you there. I agree, it's so confusing with all these Drs believing in different things and advising us different things - I wish they would all get together in a room, put all their little bits of research and things they believe in together and look at the bigger picture. xx

kjade thank you   yes you're right, I can't wait to get our embie onboard and really hope it all goes ahead now. And how are you lovely? Tea and biscuits to the rescue! It sounds like the nurse you spoke to was nice and that the situation was out of their hands - although someone somewhere at management level would have agreed to this and should have made sure it got communicated to staff and patients with plenty of advance notice. Im very impressed at how reasonable and controlled you were, I know it wasn't her fault, but I might still have got angry / upset on the phone and done a bit of shouting / crying! Bless your DP being so positive about it, I guess he is trying to make the best of the situation and in a way he is right, it would be very stressful doing transfer at the same time as moving house, but of course if you'd had a choice you would have gone ahead and found a way to deal with it. Can you go next month? Surely the paint fumes will be gone by then?! xx  

I ovulated yesterday and I could really feel it, quite sore. Do any of you ladies feel when you ovulate? I also feel a bit exhausted, don't know if that could be due to ovulation? I guess Im a relative newcomer when it comes ovulation seeing as it's something that only happens with treatment for me!   Im trying to listen to my body and take it a bit easy to make sure my body is energised and ready for the embie.. 

MrsC how was your lining scan? have you got started with medication? x

Hope you are all doing well  

Roxy, if you are reading, how are you hun? Have you tested yet? Really hope you've got your BFP


----------



## K jade

Ruby I am in a similar position.  I have immune issues dx'd . but I'm not sure they are what's causing my failures. Dr G didn't think my issues were 'anything much' apart from my raised tnfa. this came down and has stayed down after Humira/change in diet. 
of course I have not had anywhere near as many  transfers as any of the ladies on this thread so there is still that chance I have had bad luck and nothing else. 
I hope the discovery of the septum is the answer for you. I pm'd you the name of the lady I came across who had consistent failures until a septum was discovered and removed so I hope that gives you some insight

bippy so glad all is going well for this cycle, I completely get how frustrated you must have been after your last 2 false starts. I sometimes think cancelled cycles are as bad as bfns.  I get symptoms with OV all the time. a weird 'popping' sensation which mostly occurs in my right ovary. not sure  why but the left 1 doesn't seem to do much. And yes, tiredness.  hahaha yes Im truly hoping the paint fumes are cleared up by then!  she was very apologetic and told me I would most definitely be transferring on my next AF so fingers flipping crossed that no aliens land in the clinic or it doesn't burn down next time  LOL 

I had my iron retested by my GP last week. I have constant low iron all my life and  interestingly I hear a lot of ladies who have had repeat ivf failure with the same thing, so part of me thinks it may be a symptom of immune issues , rather than a cause of infertility  failure which some think it is. 
now Im yet to pick up the result but the receptionist did tell me over the phone they results are 'normal'.  I don't think ive had a normal result before. 
now im wandering If the fact  that I've tackled my immune issues , which I think were stemming from poor digestive and stomach health, means I am now able to absorb iron. 
anyway how boring but I will keep you all posted as to what they are.


----------



## mattysmrs

Sorry to jump in, Ruby, I had success after septum removal.


----------



## StrawberrySundae

Hi ladies   Hope you're all well & looking forward to the weekend.

KJade how annoying about your clinic, really sorry to hear that! I hope you have better luck the 2nd half of the year! I'm on Floridix for iron when I remember to have it. It tastes quite nice and doesn't cause constipation like I've heard tablets can. I regularly have high potency probiotics to help stomach too.

Rubyring yes I went to see Dr S last week, but my DH wants to try just with Serum's immune protocol first, as my last 2 transfers in Russia went so disastrously, so will see how it goes there first. I had a hysto with serum in Jan, went ok, slight inflammation & got tidied up a bit/scraped with the implantation cuts too, although didn't seem to help my most recent transfer, had much thinner lining & don't think I'll have another hysto. I know it's so confusing getting lots of different advice! I'm sure some of its luck!

Bippy thanks and yes I've always felt it too when I'm ovulating! There is a name for it - mittelschmerz - a nurse told me a few yrs ago after decades of it! Yes it helps planning cycles etc   All the best for your transfer.

🍓


----------



## bippy11

Im feeling a bit down today as we just found out that yet another of our friends is pregnant. They were one of the only no-child couples left out of our friends. They just recently started trying so it happened pretty quick. It seems so easy for everyone! (except us lot here!) DH saw him last night and he told the news, so poor DH had to deal with it there and then and put on a big smile etc. Although they do know about us and have been sensitive with it, it's still hard. When DH told me this morning it really floored me. It's not that Im not happy for them, but it just somehow made me feel really negative about our upcoming try and really took the wind out of my sails a bit. I feel like I don't have any more strength or fight left in me. I think maybe because so many times when I've had news of pregnant friends I've thought oh but it will be ok if it just happens for us next time... and it never has, so now I just think well it's probably not going to work. And then it's going to be rubbish. And that made me really sad because I just can't face it. 

If any of you are interested, there is an event next Sunday when Jessica Hepburn will be speaking. It's organised by a lovely volunteer for Fertility Network UK and will raise some money for the charity. We've got tickets. If any of you fancy it let me know, it'd be lovely to meet although I know there is also the Bham meet up the weekend after. 
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/fertili-tea-for-fertility-network-uk-tickets-46282588468

Kjade it would be good if your iron deficiency has gone. One less thing to worry about!

Thanks both kjade and strawberry for the intel on ovulation  I was surprised how much if affected me, both with physical discomfort and fatigue.

Hope you're all having a good weekend. xx


----------



## praying x

Hi all hope you dont mind me joining in. I'm soo glad I've found this thread. nice to know I'm not alone (although I wish none of us were in this position) so hopefully in the next week or so I'll be starting my 8th cycle my 3rd donor/double donor cycle. Feeling nervous scared but pray it's 8th time lucky. Sorry I haven't had a chance to read all the previous posts but someone asked about serum hysto. I can highly recommend it although I haven't had sucess yet but then I haven't cycled since having hysto. Serum are definitely the best when it comes.to hystos


----------



## Northern

Bippy sending you hugs     It’s so hard just when you’re trying to find strength for another cycle to then have to dig even deeper to try and deal with another announcement, especially ones quite close to home. So hard to find more strength when it feels like you’re running low. Bless you, go easy on yourself and remember it’s ok not to feel delighted for them - of course it’s good news for them but it’s ok to feel sad and not be jumping up and down happy! Do you have a date for your transfer (sorry if I’ve missed it I’ve lost track a bit this week) xxx

Praying, welcome to the thread there’s a lovely bunch of ladies here. Sorry you find yourself facing another cycle,is it fresh or FET you’re doing? Are you doing it in the uk or going abroad? Hope everything goes well for you xx

Hi to everyone, sorry been a bit quiet just had a manic few weeks. We need to ring social worker back on Monday having spoken to dd and then see where we go from there. All ok just hanging slightly in the balance lol, we feel a bit calmer than we did though lol.

Hope you’re all having a nice weekend xxx


----------



## praying x

Hi Northern it's another fresh cycle unfortunately it will be 3rd fresh donor...Lucky number 3  
Nice to hear all is going well for you sorry not quite read all the posts are you looking to adopt or adopted already?


----------



## bippy11

aw thank you Northern, really appreciate the kind words and understanding. This one just really got to me, I don't know exactly why. But both DH and I feel a bit better today, we'll just take it one day at a time. It's another leapfrog case - we'd been trying for a couple of years before they even met! Now they are pregnant and we are still trying! 

We're transferring tomorrow afternoon. I'm so nervous something will go wrong or for some reason it won't go ahead. I just want to get there and have our embie onboard! 

Hope you have a good call with the social worker tomorrow hun, let us know how it goes xxx

Praying welcome and sorry to hear about your long and difficult journey. Let's hope this will be your lucky cycle! Are you doing it here or abroad? 

I got my DH a little present today, just something very small, but to say that I know that fathers day can be a bit difficult. I really hope one day he gets to be a dad, because he would be such an amazing dad. x


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all

Bippy- best of luck for tomorrow, fingers crossed for you. Regarding that announcement, please be kind to yourself, it's completely understandable how you feel. Announcements always floor me too and remind me how unfair life is. Another of your posts resonated with me- about age. Literally feel it's been infertility 30s! Mad how time passes so quickly. 

Northern- hope your call goes ok tomorrow and DD was ok with SW.

Hi Praying- welcome and best of luck for your next cycle.

Hi Rubyring- I've had a serum hysto. I tested positive for hidden c so they said I needed one. They found a bit of inflammation and dealt with that. The Greek hospitals are amazing and the whole thing was fine. It's a bit weird watching a DVD of your insides with Penny, particularly the implantation cuts!. We flew back the next day and I felt fine. Sorry you're getting so much conflicting advice, I really wish there was one route that all Drs agreed on, would make life much easier!.

Hi Strawberry, yes I'm still with Serum. Have you got plans to go back out soon?. Glad it wasn't just me who thought Locus Medicus were all over the place.

Hi KJade- what's the latest house update?. Sorry your transfer has been delayed. My husband always says I have no patience, I think us IVF ladies have loads with all the waits we do!.

Hi Apples and Fifi- hope all is going well for you both. Please keep us updated- it gives us all hope!

Hi Carrie and anyone else reading along. Hope everyone has had nice weekends.

X


----------



## Northern

Lots of luck today Bippy for a nice smooth transfer, try to put everything else out of your mind and focus on you, dh and your little embies    Let us know how you get on Xxx


----------



## K jade

Bippy congrats on being pupo (im guessing u are already or will be in a minute). Sorry about your friend too. I know what you mean when someone manages it just like that you totally lose confidence in yourself . 
I _know_ people don't tell us their pregnant to deliberately hurt us. But it doesn't stop it being the most hurtful thing ever. Totally undermining too when your just gearing up for a transfer.
Anyway hopefully you next and you can wipe the floor with them all 

Well I went out Saturday night and decided it would be a marvellous idea to think I was 21 again and drink everything in sight. Have not had a big drink in about 3 years and needless to say I'm still worse for wear 2 days later. 
saw a few old friends, one girl I was in uni with who I hadn't seen for about 4 years. She told me about an ex of mine who's best friends with her hubby and how he's eternally single as he just cannot meet the right woman even though he's a very good looking guy. 
she then joked that maybe me and him will end up together again one day 
I didn't take it to heart as she's never met my DH before and we are not that close. however it still gives me the wobbles cause then your mind runs away and you think is this why its all been so difficult for me and DH on the baby front . because we're not allowed to be together and fate wants me to be with someone else. I only want DH not whats-his-name from back in the day (who incidentally dumped me when I had a mouthful of chips after we'd been out clubbing ). writing it down I know its rubbish but all this ivf makes you feel so vulnerable as a couple.


----------



## bippy11

Ok, I am pupo!!!!!!   We got our little embie onboard, no problems. I feel wiped out, I think it's the release of all the worry and tension. Phew! So Im going to try and remain grateful that transfer finally happened and enjoy this for as long as possible. Im sure it won't be long until I start going mad though! 

MrsC thank you - hope you are getting closer to transfer too? 

Kjade it think it's good for you to go out and have a big blow out once in a while, although the hangover gets worse and worse the older we get and the more out of practice we are! It is testing for relationships to go through all this - but just think how much you and DH have come through together, more than most couples have to deal with and you are still strong. So don't let some throwaway remark about an ex get to you, there's no grand plan or fate deciding that if you get with one person this will happen and if you get with another, then this will happen. xx

Northern how did your call with SW go? Hope it's all good - what's the next step in the process?


----------



## praying x

Bippy11 congratulations on being PUPO wish you the best for 2ww. 

I am doing cycle abroad at serum it will be my second cycle with them. Hoping this is the one. Currently waiting for period.to come so stressed at my cycles are irregular and can come any time. Makes planning everything soo difficult


----------



## K jade

bippy massive congrats! 
pregnant. not pregnant until proven otherwise! keep that in your mind
positivity and visualisation definitely do no harm
xx


----------



## fifibell

Morning all,

Hope everyone is doing alright.

Just a quick one from me as i'm at work and its quite busy will try do a proper catch up post soon. Just wanted to wish Bippy all the best during your 2ww, and to everyone in the middle of a cycle or getting ready for transfer sending you lots and lots of positive vibes!!!!.

take care xoxo


----------



## bippy11

Thank you ladies   Gosh this is going to be LOOONG! Work kept me fairly busy today, but it's just at the forefront of my mind the whole time and it's difficult to focus x

Fifi, hope all is well with you? We need an update from you please? x


----------



## fifibell

hello everyone

hope you are all enjoying the sunny weekend

Bippy and Mrs C how are you guys getting on?

praying when do you go to Athens for you cycle?

kjade any idea of when you might transfer, how's the house move going?

how's everyone else doing?

I had my 12 week scan on Thursday and everything looked good both babies measured 12 weeks 5 day and they gave me an EDD of the 29th December but from what I've read it may be earlier.  I've been having some woeful sickness the last 2 weeks but I'm hoping that will start to calm down a bit. I finished my oestrogen tablets at 10/11 weeks and I am currently weaning of progesterone should be done in the next four days, then I will be medication free. just vitamins and low dose aspirin. 

I've told my family/ in-laws and some close friends over the weekend everyone is really delighted my little neice is very excited about twin babies. My next mid wife appointment is next month but the NHS don't scan again till week 20 then its monthly scans after that, so I think I'll book a private scan at 15/16 weeks.

Anyway that's all my news. I am keeping all my fingers and toes crossed for you guys and I also learned 2 of my friend are beginning ivf too. i think ones already had a negative result and the other is just beginning stims. i really hope they have success


----------



## bippy11

Fifi, wow congratulations         such wonderful news, it must have been amazing to share it with your family and friends. 

Im coping ok so far with this 2WW, better than I normally do.. that's not to say I've not had some bad moments, but just doing a bit better at keeping distracted. Im still so worried that it won't have worked though   have injected a lot of HCG this time, plus progesterone, so have felt the symptons and have had to keep reminding myself that that's because I'm pumped full of pregnancy hormones! 

kjade how are you getting on? 

MrsC do you have a date for transfer yet? 

praying any sign of AF? 

Northern, how did it go with SW call? 

Hi everyone else, hope you are all well x


----------



## rubyring

Bippy - hang in there!!
Fifibell - congratulations, how amazing!
Mattyysmrs - I might PM you, is that ok?
K jade - thank you so much for your message, and your sympathy!
Strawberry - good to "meet" another Mr S person


Well, I'm in a mess as I was back in 2016. I was told I might have a hydrosalpinx. The best thing is to have the tubes removed. But I've been told here in the UK in no uncertain terms not to have a laparoscopy as it's too risky after my previous surgeries. So I was advised to have the Essure. This all took ages as it was done on the NHS. But I never knew if it was the right thing to do because there are lots of scare stories about it online. I can't even look anymore. But it seemed like my only option. So I did it. At my recent hysteroscopy the doc thought the Essure was covered on one side and sticking out a bit on the other, but shouldn't be a problem. He also found a septum which no one has mentioned before. 
So because everything takes ages here, I booked a hysto at Serum. However I spoke to the doc today on the phone because I wanted to make sure he knew about the Essure. He said they need to be removed because they cause problems with implantation and the only way is a lap! Queue meltdown from me. He didn't change his mind, but said I should have a proper consult with him and Penny beforehand. I don't know what to do, other than postpone the hysto for now. My DH is basically fed up with the whole thing, he's not going to stop me but I doubt he'd come with me and he doesn't really want to hear about all the details.
Actually I think I approached Serum a few years ago and maybe they said then I might need an op and maybe that's why I didn't go there then. I can't really remember.....


----------



## praying x

Congratulations Fifibell must be soo nice to finally stop meds
Bippy keep positive hope this is the one. Will you be testing early?
Rubyring I'm so sorry you're having a hard time. I've had 5 hystos and 2 laps so can sympathise. Only on my 5th hysto which was done in serum did they find a small septum and dead tissue. Nhs and some top private clinics couldn't even find this. I would highly recommend serum

So af arrived last week and I'm currently on meds will have lining scan on Thursday and then wait for penny to tell me when to come. I'm thinking first week of July maybe 2nd or 3rd I'll be there however penny said not to book tickets until she know when donor will be ready. So last min tickets are going to be so expensive not looking forward to it.


----------



## bippy11

oh rubyring it sounds like a really difficult decision you have to make, and not easy when your DH is not engaging with it and supporting you. Maybe you should go for the proper consultation as that might help put your mind at ease with the laporoscopy. Why do your previous surgeries mean its too risky? xx

Praying exciting that you've got started!  

I won't be testing early, never do, but I can't either as I injection hcg so have to wait until that's gone. 

We had our follow up consultation at the RMC today. One of the worst doctors I've come across over these past 4.5 years of treatment! Honestly he was soo bad! Didn't listen properly to our questions, kept interrupting and talking over us, didn't answer any of our questions properly, really patronising, disrespectful and dismissive. Seriously how can people like this be 'let out' to work with patients who have experienced the repeated trauma of miscarriage?? I mean he may be a good doctor but he shouldn't be allowed to speak to patients! I didn't say anything to them, me and hubby just had a good old winge about him on the way back! But if we are lucky enough to get a positive again, I will be requesting not to see him for any scans or appointments that's for sure!
One positive thing to come out of it though was that from all the many bloodtests I had, they found out that I have 'impaired fibrinolysis'. To do with clotting and so I need clexane (which I have taken for previous transfers), They prescribed it, so that's quite good. Double the dose I've had before. Although now Im scared that because I didn't take it from transfer, it might have negatively affected implantation chances.


----------



## K jade

Rubyring what a big dilema for u. If u don't mind me asking what is essure?  It sounds to me like some 'piping' they put through the tubes to make them patent? Kind of dinorod for the tubes?  To me that sounds like a strange decision made by your NHS cons as I would have thought this procedure is mostly for the benefit of those still ttc naturally. Not pursuing ivf or DE ivf. 
I would agree that this.along with your septum is priority and key to your m/cs and implantation issues. I wander if , if  u have these corrected,  would also in turn cause your NK cells to fall too..
Why another lap too risky?  This sounds like a job for penny and her team 

Bippy oh god why do u always get the dud end of NHS docs.  . I wander if he told u to 'relax and stop stressing' too.
Good your RMC tests found something though. U can get bumping up that clexane. I doubt it would make any difference to implantation.  Hang in there. 2ww is hell on earth and practice definitely doesn't help. 

Praying good luck. Are u doing DE or DD?  

Well lookshe  like we are moving house in 1 and a half weeks so thank god my FET was cancelled because of the painters and decorators lol. Hopefully I'll be in Friday  then can start eastrogen following Monday. 
Right. Off for a bit of love island drama!


----------



## bippy11

It's not worked. I started bleeding in the night, maybe it's the clexane that brought it on.


----------



## Angedelight

Bippy have you actually tested You know your own body but a test will be certain. Sending lots of love x


----------



## K jade

Ah Bippy no ! However I'm not sure bleeding means anything either way as so many with positives get bleeding , and I don't mean implantation bleeding but AF type bleeding. ..x


----------



## bippy11

I can't test as I will most likely still have hcg in my system from injection last thursday night and I can't face getting a false positive and dealing with what that will do to my head. I'm pretty certain it's not worked. So certain that I've been for a run (I was up since 3 am, so was going a bit mad in the end!) I'm waiting to see what doc says, hope I can move blood test forward from Saturday to tomorrow or Friday. 
Thanks ladies, glad I've got you x
ps AAAAAAAAAARRRGH!!!


----------



## K jade

ah dam! in a way though having the hcg injections is  good as it completely undermines any temptation to test early which can be a mindf**k in itself. 
i'm only saying don't let bleeding rule yourself out cause it just seems that so many people have bleeding with a positive  result. and around the time of AF too, not even at implantation stage
it could be that the extra clexane dose caused a bleed too
FIFI  I'm sure had bleeding if I'm not wrong
arrrgghhh im rooting for you right now!!
xx


----------



## Pognut

I can think of a few people I know who had really scary it's-all-over bleeds in the tww who were safely pregnant - hope you can get some certainty soon, got everything crossed for you.


----------



## fifibell

Arrgh so stressful bippy. 
Just to say I had lots of bleeds/spotting so many times right up still very recently so just try to take easy and stay calm. Think of you


----------



## bippy11

Doc said to stay on meds and test tomorrow evening. I thought it was supposed to be first urine of the day? Ill do Friday morning as well. Im pretty sure that it hasn't worked, with my other pregnancies I didn't bleed around the time AF was due, only later on (and that was never a good thing, always ended with MC). There hasn't been anymore bleeding since the bit I had in the night. But I don't want to get my hopes up that there could still be a chance. 
Thank you so much all of you xxx

Kjade so exciting that your move is going ahead so soon, it all happened quite quickly in the end. And seems the timings will work out well with you - maybe your DPs positivity about the cancelled cycle and timings was correct after all.


----------



## Northern

Oh Bippy sending you massive hugs and strength   Such a stressful, horrible, mind-twisting time and every time there always seems to be something different to cause more stress. If the bleeding has stopped try to take that as the most positive sign possible and keep calm as you can until you test. We’re still all rooting for you!!   Xxx


----------



## praying x

Bippy sorry to hear you're having a difficult time. Hopefully it's a good sign that the bleeding has stopped. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the extra claxane is causing it and actually you are pregnant. I know people who were told to stop the injection due to bleeding. I hope tomorrow brings you some good news.

Kjade hope the move goes well. Congratulations. On your new house. Yes it's a de cycle. My 3rd de cycle but second with serum praying this is the one

So I have my lining scan tomorrow hoping it is all ok x


----------



## bippy11

Morning lovelies, 
So no more blood since the bit I had initially.. I was so convinced it was my period, but maybe I jumped the gun. I really thought it was all over, sorry for all the panic. I still don't know because progesterone holds off your period right? So it could just be that thats why it hasn't come yet. Anyway after a difficult day yesterday I slept a bit better last night and now just have to get through today and then we can test this evening. I am hoping now that it could be good, but much more prepared / ready for bad news after yesterday. 

Hope your scan goes well today praying x


----------



## K jade

that's good news its stopped. 
what brand will you be testing with?
Im keeping it all crossed for a positive and a PP  thread celebration later on this evening.  .


----------



## bippy11

It's just a supermarket own brand one I have. But Im going to pop out and get another one as I want to test again tomorrow morning, no matter what it says tonight. Is there a brand you would recommend? x


----------



## Angedelight

First response early response every time! Keeping everything crossed for you 🤞🤞🤞


----------



## bippy11

Cool, thanks for the tip, I will try and get one of them!


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## bippy11

Argh it's so annoying, I wish I could have waited till Saturday. Now it it's negative Im going to think could it be that it wouldn't quite register on a HPT yet? and if it's positive Im going to think could it be that the hcg from the injection is still in my system?


----------



## bippy11

Well.... there's a faint positive line..   So it's not over yet after all, but we don't know if it's still the hcg from the injection that's in my system. Dr says to test bloods on Saturday and then we can be certain. So we remain in limbo-land, ever hopeful and scared.


----------



## Angedelight

Oh god Bippy, limbo land is dreadful! Can you test again tomorrow to say if it's any darker?? Whatctest did you use?. Really hoping you get a positive outcome!! 🤞🤞 Sending love and PMA x


----------



## K jade

When was your last hcg shot Bippy?


----------



## bippy11

We did 10,000 ml on Monday 18th at 9 pm and 5,000 on Thursday 21st at 9 pm. I have read all sorts of different things about how long it takes to get out of your system and apparently it also depends on how quickly you metabolize it. We are just trying to think of it as that it's still Saturday we will find out, which was always the case, its just that the last couple of days have been a bit crazy with the bleeding scare. When are they going to invent a fast forward time button??!
MrsC it was an early detection Clear Blue as the pharmacy didn't have those First Response. We will test tomorrow as well.


----------



## bippy11

Actually we have decided not to test tomorrow. Can't deal with it, will wait until bloods on Saturday.


----------



## praying x

That's great news Bippy11 hope it all works out

Scan was really disappointing although my lining thickness is ok the sonographer said I have a endometrial polyp. She was under the impression that the ivf would be cancelled I'm soo sad about this and am waiting for the clinic to reply. What I can't understand is I only just had a hysto done on the 6th and they removed a lot of dead tissue but there wasn't a polyp then. How do I now have one 3 weeks later?
I also wonder if getting rid of the  dead tissue has revelled a polyp this cycle and that's why I've had 7 failures. I think I'll need another op to get rid of it. I've just spent 1650 on hysto can't really afford it again. Don't know what to do just feel like crying. One thing after another when is it going to me my time


----------



## bippy11

Praying I am so sorry to hear about your scan, that's so disappointing for you. Have you heard back from the clinic? It's strange that they didn't find it in your recent hysto, maybe you could ask the people who performed that why they didn't see it and if they can do anything to reduce the cost if you need another one seeing as you just paid them a lot of money and they didn't find it. Unless it is something that has just happened, I don't know how long a polyp would take to develop (sorry don't know much about this..) Big hugs to you, have a nice glass of wine or chocolate or some kind of treat.   xxx

We didn't test today, we're not used to this home testing and decided it's just too stressful when it wouldn't tell us for sure anyway (unless it was negative, but in that case we don't really want to know!) So we'll see what bloods show tomorrow - so scared! Didn't feel well today, think all the stress and lack of sleep over the past few days is starting to take its effect. 

Are some of you guys still meeting tomorrow? If so, Im sorry I can't be there as it would have been really lovely to see you again. Hope you have a fab time and Ill keep you all posted!   xxx


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## K jade

Bippy will u get your results today. ? I'll be thinking of u 

I think we've postponed it for now as a few of us had OTDs so wasn't a good time .hopefully we'll arrange a new date soon

Praying I'm so sorry how frustrating and upsetting.  On the positive side could u have cracked something here as to why u may not be getting implantation? Like u said it could be hiding under the dead tissue 
But after paying for a hysto I can see why your so upset . Xx


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## bippy11

Yeah been for bloods this morning, will get results later this afternoon.  

Is it anyone else's OTD today as well?? MrsC I think you might be soon?


----------



## Angedelight

Good luck Bippy.
Another BFN for me today. I knew it hadn't worked so not surprised, or upset even, just very resigned!. 
Not sure what next, had enough of infertility and everything it's done to my life. I really don't want to waste anymore money on it!. Anyway, will enjoy the rest of the summer and think about what we do next. 
X


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## bippy11

oh no MrsC Im so so sorry hun!   Really sucks!   How many days past transfer are you - would it definitely have picked it up by now? 
I know what you mean, we are also getting so fed up with what this is doing to our lives. Good plan to have a break and enjoy the sunshine and summer. If we get a negative Im having an aperol spritz later! Big hugs to you hun, treat yourself and allow yourself to be upset when it comes, which Im sure it will. Lots of love xxx


----------



## K jade

MrsC I kno I've already said it but I'm so sorry.  I was really hoping this was the one  for you.
Taking the summer off and letting your hair down sounds like the right idea to me.
I'm so gutted each time one of u girls gets a bfn ,  it feela the same as when I get a bfn.


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## bippy11

Guys... we got a positive! wow! it's been such a bonkers few days it seems a bit unreal. hcg 319 and dr says it's definitely not the trigger by now. We've been here 3 times before so we have to stay calm and keep hoping, but it's a big and necessary hurdle to clear to get to the end goal. 
MrsC Im so sorry, it feels so insensitive to share this when you've just had a negative, but now I had said I would post the result people might wonder if I didn't. Why couldn't we just both have got good news?!?!?!?   Please have a big aperol spritz for me!!! (or whatever is your tipple of choice) Sending you big hugs xxx


----------



## K jade

Ah Bippy fab fab fab  
This is great news! U and DH must be over the moon
Remind me - u had no steroids and no scratch this time?  xx


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## bippy11

Thanks kjade, we are so happy but also aware that we still have a very long way to go. One step at a time, will see if hcg is rising as it should on Monday. 
That's right, no steroids or intralipids this time and also no scratch.


----------



## praying x

Bippy congratulations such wonderful news hope the next beta level has doubled nicely for you and wishing you a healthy 9months

MrsC I'm so sorry to hear your news. I've had soo many negatives and know how infertility takes over your life. Wishing you the best for your next step when ever you decide. In the mean time enjoy the sunshine x 

So I have a reply from Dr. She is convinced that it can't be a polyp since I've just had a hysto and according to her a polyp can't grow this quickly. So she has told me to come to greece for transfer and she will check before transfer. I'm not sure how I feel I hope it isn't a polyp and transfer goes smoothly but if there is something wrong I hope Dr tells me and doesn't go ahead with cycle can't bare seeing another negative.


----------



## Angedelight

Bippy congratulations. It's great when this thread and us long timers get good news!. Gives the rest of us hope. Keeping everything crossed this is your time.

Praying- I had a hysto and got scanned- all clear, then 2 months later before a cycle got scanned and told I had a dermoid cyst and that I would have had it for years. Obviously not as it wasn't there a couple of months ago!. When I got to Serum they scanned me and it was gone- so god knows what happened. This year when I had a womb biopsy they found a 5cm complex cyst and says it would need removing by surgery. 2 months later it had gone on its own!. Try not to worry.

Hope everyone else is doing ok.

X


----------



## K jade

Sorry to but in . Watching the Andrew Marr show . He's interviewing the health MP about nhs and cuts to ivf come up
" lots of couples are are tragically unable to conceive naturally "
NATURALLY!  thanks for the sympathy mate but how about lots of couples are unable to conceive with multiple rounds of donor eggs /sperm  ivf  , immunes,  travelling across Europe,  slicing  your lining open with a scalpel while wide awake the list goes on.
I just find it so funny that the default expectation is that people STILL conceive naturally. 
NO ONE conceives naturally in my world


----------



## Angedelight

Oh KJade that made me laugh- that sums up my journey 😂😂


----------



## praying x

MrsC thank you. I hope mine goes on its own too. I've been worrying like crazy Penny has tried to reasure me but my mind keeps wondering I've been googling the whole weekend got a headache. How are you feeling?

Kjade this is soo true of my journey too. 

How is everyone else doing.


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## Mandyselmo

Ladies,
I”m new to this thread, looking for some advice. I just came back from Zlin, Czech Rebublic.

I took my first response this morning 10dp5dt for my 2 PGS tested Grade 1  embroyos and it was a negative. I will still conduct the beta but already thinking of my next move.

I need some help, is there anything else for me to test. Things I have done.

1. ERA to test receptivity in Zlin to ensure the transfer was on the right day.

2. Checked my thyroid levels/Antibodies - I was placed on synthroid prior to transfer to get my levels optimal.

3. Diagnosed with Hashimoto’s with levels at 108. Tried Keto on and off, (maybe this is why it didn’t implant)

4. Conducted the required and recommend blood tests at Zlin and it was only found that I needed to take Folate Vs Folic Acid.

5. Conducted NK cells test in Zlin - it was found that they were elevated. I was placed on Clexane (blood thinner) and prednisone. Also did the intralipid infusion.

6. Our donor was a proven donor and I mentioned previously our embroyos were PGS tested. I know this isn’t a guarantee but just something else we tried.

7. Months of acupuncture prior.

8. Had a hystercopy done in Zlin - everything looked great.

9. This trip was very relaxing. Took time prior to transfer and then 1 week after transfer to relax.

10. Husbands sperm was good to, however they did due PICSI.

11. Used embroyo glue for this transfer.

I have two more embryos at Zlin but I want to ensure there isn’t any other testing I should do prior. 

I have had three OE IVF cycles in the past and was diagnosed with DOR. My RE expressed that DE was my only option.

1st. Clomid/timed - Ectopic resulted in right tube removal

2nd. 2 (5 day) embryos transfer- Failed to implant 

3rd. No eggs after stimulation 

4th.  1 (3 day) failed to implant 

Does anyone have any suggestions? 
I am really thinking I have a implantation issue. 

Maybe I need to loose some weight. I’m 5”4 weight 170 lbs.  

Sigh...just feeling a little lost..


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## K jade

Bippy any news?? did you have second Beta back?  I'm waiting on a good news  update from you    

Mandyselmo im so sorry sounds like you have had the works done . I wish I could advise. 
what level were your NK cells and what level of prednislone did you take?
Dr Gorgy recommends nothing less than 25mg but of course no one has the right answer on this. 
I'm not sure there is anything further you can do really as sounds like you have had extensive testing and maybe its (sorry to pull this one out the bag)  a numbers game for you. 
I did hear someone say DE still takes an average of 3 attempts to work which I know is majorly frustrating, would be OK if each attempt didn't set you back thousands!
id possibly go for next attempt maybe with an adjust of the dose in  pred 

Paying have you flown out to Greece yet?. 

AFM I've got  a crazy few weeks lined up. Our moving date is officially in 2 and half weeks time. then providing a meteorite hasn't landed on the clinic transfer is a few days later! I don't care anymore. I need to make things happen and what will be will be (another saying I hate!) 

oh and I had a dream last night I was in an ante natal class with DH except DH was the one that was pregnant! yup


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## bippy11

Kjade, thank you hun, we got second HCG back and it is rising within the correct range. Phew. That hasn't stopped me going a bit crazy though, I've been super anxious and have been crying quite a lot. I'm just so terrified that it's not going to work again. Im trying some guided meditations to help calm me down. 

Such an exciting few weeks coming up for you hun! Is there much work needing doing to your new house? You'll have to get DP on the case so you can focus on treatment! Haha, a meteorite better not land on your clinic! Have you started meds to build your lining? x 

Praying Im so glad you can go to Greece, everything crossed your transfer can go ahead. When do you fly out? Don't google anymore hun, don't do it to yourself (although I'm a fine one to talk!   )

MrsC how are you doing? Have you had any time off work? Thinking of you hun   xxx

Rubyring have you decided what to do? xx

Mandyselmo, Im sorry to hear everything you've been through - what a list! I take a slightly different view on the steroids. Thing is the doctors don't agree, so it's up to us to decide for ourselves. I had slightly high blood NKcells so have had 3 rounds on steroids. Last one they really didn't agree with me, had bad insomnia, so decided to test uNKcells. This showed that my uNKcells are persistently low. In the group that have persistently low uNKcells 85% are miscarriage patients. The study has not yet been published though. The Dr said that I should not be taking steroids to further lower my immunes when they were already lower than ideal, as they do play an important role in creating a good lining. The uNKcell biopsies are done in Coventry by Professor Brosens and Professor Quenby. It's not too expensive - £540 I think for 2 biopsies and they are really nice there. The consultant we recently saw at St Mary's recurrent miscarriage clinic was also very anti steroids and said that I shouldn't be taking them. As I said, doctors disagree on this issue, I know that Kjade's doctor really believes in blood immunes and nkcells. So I don't know if it's helpful or just adds to confusion but this is something that I have discovered and opinions I have had from doctors within the last few months. 
Have you taken clexane with previous rounds? Otherwise that could be something to discuss with your Dr too. xx

Sending love to everyone else. Northern looking forward to hearing an update from you soon, hope the process is moving forward for you? xxx


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## praying x

Mandyselmo so sorry to read your.journey I wish I had answers for you but unfortunately I'm in the same path as you. The only thing we've done now is donor egg but even that's failed twice before so none the wiser. Hope to get your answers soon. Good luck x

Kjade good luck with the house move hope it goes smoothly keep us posted. You made me laugh with your dream reminded me of that movie with Arnold schwarzenegger (can't remember the name of it) if only.men could get pregnant too would give us more options lol

Bippy great news about rising hcg levels hope this continues for you. Its soo hard to stop worrying I always think when am I going to stop googling and worrying. Even after I give birth (hoping/praying this happens one day) will I ever relax and enjoy life. 

So I had my transfer today. Penny said there was no polyp but I feel she rushed it and didn't check properly. Well I just have to trust her. Not sure how I feel right now just had 8th transfer and nervous and worried but excited at the prospect of what could be. It's hard to stay positive after soo many failures even hubby is getting tired of all this now but hopefully never have to go through this again..please please 8th time lucky


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## rubyring

Hi everyone. Thanks for your comments when I came on here last stressing out about everything!! I had to step away for a bit and calm down...


To answer some of your questions:
After I got the severe infection after IVF no2 in 2010, I had 2 laparotomy ops. That's a big open op so I have a big scar from a couple of inches above my tummy button right down. I also had some pelvic drains done from the buttock. They were more painful than the big ops. Just to try to get all the infection out. After the first big op the infection went into small pockets which they had trouble reaching. Also infection makes all the organs stick together. So I can't have a laparotomy (keyhole) because it's too risky that they could damage organs like the bowel as things may be in odd places. It could be life threatening for me. I think even open surgery isn't a great idea although I've been told I can have  C section. (I asked because I think I've been through enough pain thanks.) So when a scan showed a possible hydrosalpinx (fluid in the tube) the doc at the time said he wouldn't be at all surprised if I did have a hydro after my infection. But the only way to find out is a laparoscopy (too risky) and removal of the tubes (laparoscopy etc). So I was recommended Essure. Which are little metal coils they put in the end of the tubes with a hysteroscopy. They go in the other way! The tissue grows over the metal and blocks the tubes. I had the test a few months later to check the tubes are blocked OK. 
However my first Spanish clinic didn't like the idea of the Essure as it's metal and can cause problems with implantation. So I got really scared I'd done the wrong thing. And I cant have the Essure removed because I cant have a lap etc etc. But I've told myself that women have got pregnant with Essure. And with fluid I think. So who knows.


So anyway after I talked to the Serum doc, I was in such a state. He was adamant he could do a lap and remove the tubes and Essure. Which I'm sure is the ideal thing. But I was too scared. So I cancelled the Serum hysto. Who knows, maybe the doc here was scareing me too much and maybe the Serum doc is fantastic and can do this surgery which I've been told is highly risky. But I can't do it. I even talked to my DH about it! Well I had to because I was so upset and stressed. He basically wants me to not have any op or any more IVF, but he knows I will keep going with the IVF for a little longer. He doesn't want me to take any risks. He was great when I was so ill, but it must have been horrible for him too.


So I've been really pushing for more answers from the doc that did the hysto here. I emailed lots of questions and was told I need to book to see him as it's a complex situation. That word complex really upset me again, why am I always complex?? But as I had the hysto at the end of May I was getting anxious to see him soon, before we go away on 14th. Originally I was planing IVF in August hence the early holiday! But who knows now, I just know the further it goes into the autumn the harder it will be to get off work. Anyway finally I got his PA's email and have an appointment on 13th. When I'm working afternoon and evening that day and need to pack and get a pedicure done which is really important!! 
Anyway I'm glad I got the appointment in, so hopefully I'll get some good advice soon.


----------



## rubyring

Now to catch up with you all:

bippy - congratulations!! Hang in there..... interesting you had no steroids or intralipids or scratch. I'm reluctant to have another scratch - so painful! But also both cycles I had it were negative. Interesting about the steroids too. My MC doc believes in them but has put me on hydroxychloroquine instead of steroids as I had very low dose steroids when I got the infection. Steroids can help infection breed, but are also used to treat infection. Don't really get it!! I haven't done the uNK cells because I feel I've done enough tests, and my MC doc only believes in blood NK. Mine were all OK, just one raised general marker for auto immune. Oh, who did you see at St Mary's? I went there before my latest MC doc....... they don't believe in much except aspirin and clexane as far as I can tell?

K jade - thanks for your reply, I hope the above post has made it clearer to understand? I'm inclined to agree, the Essure and septum are worth trying to sort out. This doc here who did the recent hysto thought the Essure was OK but the septum is worth removing. I will be questioning more about the Essure. I'll probably get upset when I see him.....   How is the house move going?? So exciting! Any news on a next cycle?

praying - good luck! Hoping Serum works their magic for you. I wonder sometimes about these scans, things seem to change or get interpreted differently.

mrs C - so sorry about your negative. A break is good, I usually have a gap between cycles just to collect myself. I don't know how some people rush from one into the next, but we're all different 


Manyselmo - sorry about your negative and not much to suggest either. It's so hard....


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## K jade

Bippy any more updates from your end? So so pleased your beta rose as it should and  things are going in the right direction for u 

Ruby wow what a horrendous time u have had.
So all these problems were caused by infection acquired after  your first EC ? That's terrible .
It's really difficult. Because I read of women like u with uterine and tubal issues who have been told by UK docs that they categorically must not not not undergo more surgery. 
Then they show up up serum who sort it for them with their eyes shut. 
But it's a really tough call. Such a difference of opinion between Greece and UK. 
There was a lady on FF not  long back who was told that she'd end up with a colostomy bag if she underwent a lap (very severe endo wrecking havoc sticking everything together )
She bit the bullet and went to serum and next attempt got bfp with DD. 
It a tough decision for u. Hopefully your appointment with your consultant will give u some more info and a bit of a steer on which way to proceed 

Sorry for anyone I've missed on my phone so can't scroll back
Hope your all enjoying the lovely weather xxx


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## bippy11

Praying congrats on being PUPO   that's such great news after your scare with your polyp. Phew! How are you doing in the 2WW so far? 

Ruby, Im so sorry to hear about the horrendous time you've had with all your surgery and complications.   I can understand your DH not wanting you to take an risks, he must have been so worried about you. It's great you've managed to squeeze in an appointment before you go away, hopefully that will help give a bit more clarity. Where are you off to? xxx 

Kjade how are you doing? Are you on meds leading up to your transfer yet? x 

We had another blood test yesterday and HCG is doubling every 2.5 days. So far, so good.  

I have another story for you girls.. seems I manage to get a lot of stories! I had to get referred back to St Mary's as it's a different clinic that does the early scans to the one I was with for all the tests. So I called up GP - receptionist was fairly rude, but told me I don't need appointment I can just come in and fill in a form. So I go in - explain that I need a referred to St Mary's recurrent miscarriage clinic (said rmc 3 times) and explained that it was for an early 6 week scan. So they tell me that I need to see GP for that but luckily she can fit me in in a couple of hours. I told her that on the phone they had said that I could just fill in a form, but no it seems I have to see the GP for this. So I come back a couple of hours later to see the GP. She asks when my last period was, so I tell her that it's IVF and when I had my transfer. She is seeming quite confused and says 'oh it's just that most people who have IVF actually want children'... .. I don't really know what to say at this point.. I explain that we want children, we've been trying for nearly 6 years, have had 3 miscarriages which is why I now need to be referred.. she's like 'oh I see, reception told me that you wanted an abortion'. !!!!! Really?!? If you were confused would you not just ask me to explain what I need instead of saying something like most people who have IVF actually want children!??!? I mean look at my notes for christ sakes you've got it all there on your system. Be a bit more sensitive. I told her that I found it quite upsetting for her to be talking about abortion being in the situation that I am in. She apologised of course and explained that the receptionists dont have medical training. Really?? You don't need medical training to know the difference between a miscarriage and an abortion!! They work in a doctors for christ sakes!! 
Im sure there are lots of great amazing people out there with the NHS, it just seems that I manage to find all the incompetent ones!


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## K jade

Bippy my jaw is on the floor 
I honestly don't kno what to say.
What a stupid cow ! One brain cell clearly went for a walk and the other went to look for it during that phonecall by the sounds of things. 
Glad u told her straight . 

Back to the important stuff so pleased betas are looking as they should !! Hopefully next few weeks will fly by and then u can start to look foward to things a bit 
Xx


----------



## Northern

Slightly late to the party on this one but Bippy congratulations on your BFP!!!    
Completely understand your caution but glad the betas are rising and you're off to a good start. 
Honestly I cannot believe you've had another one of these experiences, what the actual f---??!!  I can't believe it!  It's frightening how this kind of thing keeps on happening, I know it's not representative of everyone working in healthcare by any means, but it does make you wonder the inaccuracies that must be going on all the time - and just adding to the anxiety of people who are already going through a lot! 

Sorry for being slightly absent, I've been reading along in the background but just been so busy I've not had chance to catch up.  No new news here other than social worker wants to meet the kids so dp is trying to gauge the right time to get it all sorted.  It's fine, but I'm struggling with the anxiety of the whole outcome resting in the kids' hands, essentially. 

Also met up with my 1st-time-ivf-success best friend at the weekend, which was so sad as it was hard for us both.  I hated her being in that position of trying to get it right for me without hurting me, but still needing to talk about it all.  I hated it for both of us having to be in that position.  It was lovely to see her and we have such a strong friendship that we can survive it, but this is exactly why we haven't told many people, as it's just as hard on them if they know and then feel they need to tread carefully.  Just made me so sad reflecting on what infertility has done to me  

Have just had a week off work though on a/l so in general am feeling able to carry on with life lol xxx


----------



## praying x

Ruby so sorry to read your journey to think this is all because of an infection. I can totally understand you not wanting anymore  sugary. If you do decide to go fo lap hysto I can recommend serum after 4 hystos done in the uk and abroad and 2 lap in uk serum discovered things that no one else could. 

Bippy omg I can't believe that Dr didn't even read your notes. I would have been livid seriously that is so unprofessional. The first thing you are always taught is to read a patients notes before consultation. On a positive note Happy to read your beta is rising nicely

Kjade have you started yet?

Northern hope you had a restful week off. Enjoying sunshine  

I'm feeling extremely negative about this cycle after 7 failures it's hard to keep your hopes up. I don't feel any different to my last cycle which isn't helping. I was hoping I would have implantation bleeding but nothing. I hate seeing blood usually but really wanting to see some to give me a little positivity. I want all the horrible side effects nausea vomiting tiredness etc I know it sounds wierd but surely any positive sign is better then nothing


----------



## apples2014

I’m so sorry I’ve missed so much !!!!

We had a mock inspection at work a few weeks ago and it was really hard going and I couldn’t think straight I was so tired. 
And we’ve been away on holiday so I stayed off. 

Mrs C I’m so sorry, I’m really so sorry. Are you guys okay? What did Penny suggest ? Just sending you so much love. 

Kjade I’m behind Hun. How is your house move? When is transfer? 

Northern and Fifi and Praying and Ruby and Mandy (welcome) hello and to anyone else I’m missing hi and sorry xxx

Bippy 
                  

Sending you a huge hug. I know it’s early days and I’m sure you are emotional. It really is! But I am so happy you got this result and I am thinking of you lots and lots now xx

I hope everyone is okay. 

We had a nice time in Provence. I couldn’t manage the sun like I usually can but that’s okay. I stayed under an umbrella or took it easy. The food was so nice and we stayed in a great Airbnb so it was fab. 
I saw the midwife when we got back and heard the babies heart beat which was so good it made me cry, think relief! We are 17 weeks and 2 days now. 
Next scan is end of this month. 
I have more energy than before but I’m really tired but who is even sleeping in the heat we’ve had!! But I really have nothing else to report really. 

Still can’t believe we’ve got this far after so many failed cycles. I’m seeing a consultant on thurs just to check all okay I think im consultant led as I’m 41 now (eek Birthday was Friday) have the blood clot history and the erm 11 IVF transfers but will know more by thurs but am feeling good on the whole. 

Sorry been gone so long. 

How are you all? 

Love Apples xxx


----------



## K jade

apples holiday sounds amazing! and update that signature of yours! would love to see a ticker, although no clue how to do one. are you keeping it a surprise boy /girl wise?

Praying sorry your in 2ww misery doesn't get any easier does it. I completely relate to how you feel. there is a definite urge for your body to do something different and surprise you for a change. 

northern sounds like things are moving forward slowly but surely , if the SW is planning on speaking with the kids then im guessing you have already had the talk with your SD?

well i'm on day 2 of oestrogen. downing the beetroot juice (am I the only person on earth who loves it?).  transfer in about 2-3 weeks I guess. I have been taking no vitamins I cannot be bothered to waste my money. 

moving date is planned for the 20th but  now our buyers are starting to ask for last minute things and really pi$$ me off. last week they wanted  a gas safety check and now they are  wanting to do 'one final viewing' Saturday morning (6 days before completion ) just to check everything. estate agent said don't worry its totally normal for people to do another viewing before completion it doesn't mean their having second thoughts. 
The house is a complete tip as everything has been pulled out and half of its in boxes. its looks nothing like the show home I dressed it up to be when they viewed it. 

immunes are probably quite high right now as Ive acquired massive welts on my legs where Ive  bitten multiple times during the hot weather  by horse flies. also seem to be getting lots of joint pain. So when alls said and done  I think I do need that high dose of steroids after all. 
intralipids booked for next Tuesday at Cherish. 

The stress is getting to me a bit and last night DH got a massive meltdown from me and dinner was tipped in the bin as I decided I'd made a mess of it and it wasn't edible (stir fry and the noodles were overcooked and mushy)


----------



## praying x

Apples would you mind sharing what you did differently this cycle.

Kjade wow not long to go now for the move and transfer. Hope your buyer isn't having last min thoughts you really don't need that. I know what you mean by.not taking any vitamins I just can't be asked either. Ive wasted soo much money all these extra support vits and buying healthy food etc and it hasn't done me any good so now I jus do what I want to and hope for the best


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## bippy11

Morning all, 

Ruby good luck for you appointment today, let us know how it goes, really hope it can help you to come up with a plan. And then have a lovely relaxing holiday! where are you off to? xx

Northern and Apples thanks for the dancing bananas   

Northern is SD still completely against it or has she started to come round to the idea at all? Is SS still onboard with it? I wish you didn't have to go through any more anxiety with this process, it doesn't seem fair after everything you have already been through. Hopefully it won't last too long. xx I think it's lovely you have such a strong relationship with you friend, try to see it as a positive that this is a difficult situation and you are both trying to navigate it as best you can and be there for each other. Itll be worth the effort and in the long run it will make your friendship stronger if you work through this together. That's what I have done with my bf (who is currently pregnant with her second) and I am so thankful and grateful that I have her.

Praying how are you feeling? When are you testing? I know you want to feel something hun, but you won't so early on. I really wanted implantation bleeding too so I know what you mean, anything just to have a little sign that things are going right. You will get there, can't be too long left for you now xxx  

Apples happy belated birthday!!      so chuffed you're doing so well, it's amazing to hear about and gives me hope that this could be possible. Im glad they are keeping a close eye on you, it's good for reassurance xx

kjade i HATED the beetroot juice haha!   I love beetroots, but the juice version is really not for me. But I did really like that raspberry leaf tea, got very into that even though I have to say I doubt it made any difference. Do you do anything like walking / yoga / meditation to help keep your anxiety in check? I'm trying my best to deal with mine, but sometimes it does take over. Fingers crossed everything is fine with the final viewing and you can then get on with the completion and move. xx

Mrs C, Im thinking of you hun, I know this must be a difficult time. How are you doing?   xxx

We've got our first scan tomorrow. Very nervous   I have been feeling sick and tired (which I very happy about - our world is so weird eh?   ) but I'm just so scared there's going to be a problem - what if there's no heartbeat or the sac isn't big enough again or it's split again?.. all these things are going round and round in my head. And I keep catching myself getting carried away imagining if it all works out and then I have to check myself and stop and tell myself that it's still so early and things might not work out. I honestly don't think I could cope with another miscarriage. I don't even know how many answers we'll get tomorrow as it's just with our IVF Dr to check for heartbeat. But it'll be good to - hopefully - get some reassurance and then we have our first 'proper' scan with St Mary's rmc on Wednesday. Im such a pincushion at the moment, my stomach is so bruised! 

Lots of love to you all and anyone else reading   xxx


----------



## K jade

Bippy I will be thinking of you tomorrow and waiting for your update
They sound like positive signs
I feel confident for you that all will be well    

praying you too. everything crossed for a BFP 


started the 'roids and the clex today. not sure what's going on with me however.  For the last few weeks I've had really bad weakness and shaky feeling in my arms and legs. Well especially legs
I thought it was my diet so started eating meat again.  But it’s not that . ive tried googling and cant work out what it may be. 
I know I need to go to GP but right now in the middle of FET I don’t want them putting a halt on things. 
So I think after my 2ww ill be off for further testing
I had full blood count a couple of weeks ago to check for iron levels. All fine there. 
Maybe its just the heat and general anxiety nerves


----------



## praying x

Bippy good luck for tomorrow will be waiting to read your update. Hope it all goes well x

Thank you kjade. I know what you mean not wanting to go to gp I've been putting a hold on a few things. I definitely need to make an appointment soon but ivf has taken over.

OTD is Sunday I'm soo scared really can't take another negative - you think I'd be used to it by now. No signs of being pregnant so can only think of the worse


----------



## bippy11

no heartbeat   Im 6W3D so should have seen one. It measured a bit small and it also looked like maybe the sac had split, although he couldn't really tell. it felt like a crushing blow    I've had quite a lot of strong symptons so I was really hoping this would be ok. Im devastated and feel so depressed, I just can't cope with going through all this again. He said to come back for another scan in a week, but we have one booked with St Mary's on Wednesday. I really don't know how to get through the time till then. 

praying, wishing you good luck for tomorrow, really hope you get your positive xx


----------



## praying x

Bippy I am soo sorry to read this I really don't know what to say. I hope it is just a little early and next week yiu hear a heart beat. Feel free to pm me if you want to chat. Thinking of you x


----------



## K jade

Bippy no no no  . I'm so upset and gutted for u
Like praying says though so many ladies on here don't hear heartbeat as it's to early but go back a week later and things are on track again. 
I can think of 2 off the top of my head
So there is hope and I hope that gets you through until wednessay .
This can still turn around for u . I'll be thinking of u over the next few days xxx


----------



## Northern

Oh god Bippy I’m so sorry, devastated to read this and sending you so much love, can’t imagine what you must be going through    
As the others have said 6w3d is still early - am praying that it’s still there and you can stay strong until you know for sure. Can’t imagine the turmoil xxx

Praying, everything crossed for you when you test xx

Kjade hope you’re feeling a bit better, that’s weird with the shaky arms/legs thing - maybe it is anxiety or something - look after yourself though and make sure you’re getting enough rest.

Love to you all xxx


----------



## bippy11

Thank you ladies, I am desperately hoping it will be ok, but realistically I know it's not good and my symptoms also seem to have gone, which is not a good sign. I'm a bit of a mess, but somehow have to get through the next few days. it feels like Im back living in a nightmare xx

praying how has it gone for you this morning? Really hope you've had good news xxx


----------



## K jade

Bippy I'm so so sorry for yesterday .I was so disappointed for u. I'll be honest I'm still secretly hoping for a turnaround of events for u. Getting to Wednesday is gonna be tough. Do u have to attend work or can u call in sick?
This journey is total BS and getting that pos pregnancy test is just one mountain. The second mountain comes with trying to _stay_ pregnant. 
xxx


----------



## apples2014

Bippy 
I’m so very sorry. I don’t know what to say, this is so cruel. 
Are you able to be off work? I can only imagine how you both must be feeling. 

This is so unbelievably hard. 

We are all here for you and wish with every thing I have that it’s okay and you don’t have to go through this. 
Sending you so much love 
Apples xxx


----------



## bippy11

Work is really busy right now, but it'll give me something to pass the time with. I'm going to work from home today and tomorrow as cant face going in to the office. 

Just to add to the stress I had some bleeding last night   Im not really sleeping and am so exhausted from all this.


----------



## Angedelight

Oh Bippy I'm sad to read this. Really hoping Wednesday comes quickly for you. Sending lots of love x


----------



## Northern

Oh Bippy    sending you massive hugs, rest up as much as you can   
xxx


----------



## K jade

Thinking of u bippy.
Glad u were able to work from home although can't imagine u got much work done. I wouldn't have done.
Only 1 more day then u can find out which way things are going. 
Like I say a turnaround is not out of the question. Seen it happen to people on here lots of times.

I'm currently  on train to Sutton for intralipids. 
Big drama this morning as realised id forgotten my credit card PIN number. Called cherish who said it's OK I can still pay but they'll accept signature instead. 
Bit cloudy today and nice to have some cool weather for a change xx


----------



## Angedelight

Thinking of you for tomorrow Bippy x


----------



## Northern

Thinking of you today Bippy, look after yourself and let us know if you can xxx


----------



## apples2014

Also thinking of you Bippy. Lots of love 
Apples xx


----------



## bippy11

It's not good news, sadly we're having another miscarriage   
Thank you all so so much for your support, this is so s**t and isolating and it helps to have you who understand xxx

praying Im hoping you got your positive, but as we haven't heard from you yet, Im wondering whether maybe you didn't xx


----------



## K jade

I'm so sorry bippy  
I kept everything crossed for a turnaround for u.
So sad for u right now. 
I hope u and hubby are looking after each other right now xxx


----------



## Northern

Bippy    
I'm so sorry.  So sorry you're going through this again. 
Can't imagine the hurt you're going through right now; do look after yourself and have as much time just you and dh as you can. 
We're all here and thinking of you and sending love, it's just the sh**est thing that you have to go through this again.
xxxx


----------



## praying x

Oh Bippy I am so very sorry to read this. I have been thinking of you all day. I can't imagine how you must be feeling right now. Please pm me if you want to chat. 

Sorry all hat I haven't been in touch I had a few problems with bloods (to get them done) so had to take hcg shots to help with implantation so I have to have bloods on friday. It's via nhs so.not sure when I'll get results back. I'm extremely stressed and praying to God every day. The scary thing is I'm getting no sysmptoms not even extra hungry or tired despite taking steriods and lots of other meds. This journey is soo difficult. A girls at work told me she is 15 weeks. Shes having her second. I remember having done 4 ivf's when she was trying to conceive with her first. She now pregnant again and I'm still on the ivf journey


----------



## apples2014

Bippy I’m so sad to read your news. 

I am so very sorry, it’s so unfair and I’m absolutely gutted. Gutted is only word I can find it’s just so unbelievably unfair and I’m so so sorry. 
I just can only imagine how you feel and I wish this wasn’t happening to you both. I hope so much that you are as okay as you can be given the situation. 
I’m so sorry honey, I was really hoping so so so so much for you xxx


A little hello to everyone else! 

Kjade how are you? 
Hope the immunes went well and you are okay. The lead up to a FET for me was always such an emotive and moody time, I’m thinking of you too xxxx how you doing? 

Mrs C how are you too? Any news from Penny and thoughts? Thinking of you both. 

Northern I know you have the challenge at the moment and I know it’s so stupid of me to say this but I just feel so strongly that it’s going to get passed that and it’s goinb to be okay. Stay in touch with me and inbox when ever you want anything too. It’s a long road but you are on it and I just feel it’s going to be okay. I know it probably doesn’t feel okay and you must be worrying but I know you two will win over on this xx

Praying so much good luck with your bloods all that waiting and not not knowing is hard. Sending you a good luck Hug. I’m sorry I didn’t respond to your question about if we did anything differently- on the 11th transfer (I still cringe when I write that) we followed the direct advice of Prof Brosen’s and not my Clinic and had a natural FET so no oestrogen pills as we had a biopsy result which evidenced I was non receptive on the transfer time on the medication and the first time we tried (none medicated only some progesterone) this it took so I am grateful for the research at Coventry as I believe they cracked it for us! But we was close to our cut off of what we could handle, it was owing to the fact that we had 3 chemical pregnancies from the last 5 embryo transfers that we tried again because we felt it might be worth following Coventry’s advice. Really hope you get good news x

Hi to those I’m missing! 


Bippy I am literally sending you all my love and your partner. I’m so very sorry. 
We are all here for you 
Love Apples xx


----------



## K jade

Bippy hoping your taking some time today to rest and recouperate.  You must be feeling so rubbish right now. Every time u get a crushing blow like this it takes so much from you. . 

Apples lovely to hear from you. Yes my transfer is on for a week tomorrow . Lining scan yesterday and it was 7.8  on day 9 of hrt.  Nurse was very pleased. I obviously want thicker but there's time for that as don't start progesterone till Sunday. 
We are supposed to be moving tomorrow yes tomorrow. But major hiccup 
The property we are buying has tenants in and yesterday we received the lovely surprise that they 'may not' have  vacated. They were menna be out weeks ago.
The owner has let us get to 2 days before completing before notifying us of this.
Anyway apparently he's on it today and getting them out and the house cleared. So as it stands we're still moving tomorrow 
The stress it's caused me in last 24 hours is not good though 
Not what I need and not what my lining needs!!!!!


----------



## Angedelight

Bippy I am so sorry to hear this. Really don't know what to say other than I'm thinking of you both and I wish none of us were in this situation. Sending lots of love  ❤


----------



## praying x

Bippy how are you feeling...I kow a silly question but if yiu want to talk please feel free to pm me. My thoughts are with you

Kjade hope all goes ok with move. Not long now before you transfer how are you feeling

Apples thank you for replying. Hope you're ok 

I finally got my results back and it's a positive being very cautions can't quite believe it. I have to have a scan in a few weeks soo another stress hoping praying it's my time. Currently stressing as I need pronogest asap I'm running low on them  arghh


----------



## Northern

Ah praying that’s great news, I know it’s early days but just try and relax and take it one day at a time. Hope you get your progesterone sorted! 
Xxx


----------



## apples2014

Praying this is for you as I know we must be cautious of course and this is a hard time waiting for that early scan but you deserve some jumping banana’s for this news ...                  

I’m sending you lots of love and hope and pray all is good. I hope so much you are both okay xx

Hello everyone else. Bippy I hope you are reading and know we are thinking of you. I’m so very sorry and I hope you are doing as okay as you can given the situation. So much love xx

Wow Kjade next week! Am excited for you lovely. The house move stuff must be so   With the tenants and the completing part. Hope all is okay and you are all sorted for it. Lots of love. Going to be thinking of you and I changed my profile for you babe although I have no idea how you do those ticker thingies so not done that. Take it easy. I know you in a new house and have heaps to do but get rest so you in good nick for your transfer xxx

Mrs C are you guys okay? Any thoughts of Penny or what might be next? 

Hi to Northern and Ruby and Fifi if you reading. How are you? 

Sorry to anyone I’m missing. 
Just wanted to say hello. 
DH has gone out to a party his mate is back over from Australia so it’s me, my cat and Netflix this evening. I’m not complaining! But i just wanted to say hello
I’ve nothing to update really my next scan is the week after next. 

Lots of love Apples xx


----------



## K jade

Apples loving it !!!!! Sounds like u have a very nice evening ahead too

Praying yeeaaahhhh!  Fab. We all know to be cautious but make sure you celebrate these milestones as they are very special. Is it your first bfp? 

Bippy special hugs to you as u are in my thoughts a lot 

OK so a little update from me . I'm in my new house. It was a total hovel. Yes the tenants vacated but they left it bogging.  Every square inch caked in filth. Of course u expect to clean when u go in to your new home but honestly nothing prepares u for living in somebody else's dirt and grime. 
So the last 72 hrs have been anxiety. Stress.rushing. and cleaning products!  Lots of them. This is not what one should be doing in prep for a FET! 
it seems so ludicrous to do a ivf cycle in the middle of moving house. But it was the way the cookie crumbled.  And there was no way I was postponing again after a year of cancelled cycles 
So what will be will be now 
Let's just hope the zoflora fumes haven't mucked up my lining!


----------



## praying x

Northern thank you very much. I am trying my best to relax but I think until I have a scan and know all is ok I can't truely enjoy being pregnant. It just seems wierd even writing these words it's taken me 7 years and 7 ivf's to write I'm pregnant. I have hopefully got progesterone sorted just waiting for the pharmacy to get back to me.

Apples thank you for the dancing banan's it's taken me 7 ivf's to see them and I hope the dancing can continue once the scan is done. Definitely a tense time for me as I've never got this far but don't want to get to excited as I don't have any symptoms yet nothing even with all this medication...no nausea, tiredness extra hungry nothing at all. So a bit scary 

Kjade thank you yes I've never got a bfp. after 7 ivf's this is my first hpt which has been positive. Trying to enjoy it but very cautions and not telling anyone until I have a scan then another scan then another scan...basically when I have my baby in my hand I'll tell people...lol
Congratulations on your move sorry it's been hard work with all the cleaning but it will be all worth it after transfer you can relax and enjoy. When is your lining scan?


----------



## K jade

Praying that's amazing!  Are u with serum? Any idea what may have made difference for u this time?
Lining scan was last week. It was only 7.8 but nurse was happy as I was only on day 9 and I hadn't started the full estrogen dose.
Transfer is Friday


----------



## praying x

Thank you all. But i think it's all over today I've had a massive bleed of clots and red blood which isn't stopping. To say I'm heartbroken is an understatement. The epu will not see me they have said to rest. I feel so let down by nhs. Apprently no point scanning before 6weeks


----------



## K jade

Praying how many embies did u transfer? 
Bleeding very common in ivf pregnancies especially if u had multiple embies transfered x


----------



## bippy11

Hi everyone, 

Sorry I've been a bit quiet... just wanted to say thank you again for all your support. I am really so glad I've got you lot here, it's nice to have some friends who understand. 

We've just been stumbling through the days as best we can. Some pretty awful times. I've been working from home, but it's been too much really and I've been in some pain, so I've logged off now for a few days. I've also organised to take some unpaid leave over August and we've booked a holiday to Sardinia so it's nice to have that to look forward to. Right now everything seems hopeless, but somehow we'll get through this. Our doc has been very kind and says that he will waive his fees next round and cover medication. I can't really bear thinking about going through all this again. But I don't have to right now, for now we just have to take it day by day and hopefully soon Ill start to feel a bit better soon. The drop in hormones seem to be bringing on headaches now and I really hope that won't last too long, after my last mc I had bad headaches for weeks. 

Praying I was so excited to read you got your positive, congratulations, but now also worried for you. I know it's so stressful with bleeding, like kjade says, it is common and doesn't necessarily mean something is wrong with the pregnancy. With our pregnancy before Christmas I had some bleeding and it was caused by something called a sub-chorionic bleed. It was only small (I mean there was lots of bleeding, but on the scan it was small) and it wasn't a threat to the pregnancy and although things didn't work out, that wasn't related to the bleeding. The main advice I got from the doctors when bleeding was to rest, so just take it easy until your scan hun. I know it's really stressful and Im sorry you're going through all this worry now   xx

kjade good luck for your transfer, it must be really soon now? Not ideal with all the cleaning you had to do, but I don't think you need to worry about it, I think the important thing is to stay away from the cleaning product after transfer. As much for your own peace of mind as anything else really. And you're in - congratulations!   xx

Thank you again all of you for your lovely messages and support and hi also Apples, Mrs C, Northern and everyone else   xx


----------



## praying x

Thank you ladies. Feeling really low after all the heart ache I thought it was out time but looks like it wasn't meant to be. All I can pray that 2 embies implanted and I've lost 1 but the other is still there...I know at the.back of my mind it's all over but just can't understand why this has happened. My beta levels were really good. Feel like jumping of a cliff


----------



## K jade

Just a quickie praying has the bleeding stopped or is it still going?


----------



## praying x

Still bleeding kjade. Not heavy but everyone I go to the loo. Red brown a small little clots sorry tmi


----------



## Northern

Just jumping on quickly as am at work but just want to send massive love and hugs to both of you, praying and Bippy    

Praying, I'm so sorry you're going through this, after finally seeing those two lines after all this time you shouldn't have to suffer any more.  Have you had repeat bloods done?  Just thinking it would help give an indication, and - if it came to it - may help in future cycles to know a bit more about what happened this time.  I'm sorry you're going through this, do go easy and be very gentle on yourself xxx

Bippy, my heart goes out to you.  You're a strong lady and again I'm so sorry you're going through any of this, it just isn't fair.  You're doing everything right giving yourself time, and booking a holiday somewhere nice, just take each day as it comes and don't think too far ahead. 
Lots of love to you both xxxx


----------



## K jade

Bippy glad to hear from u
And very glad to hear you've booked a holiday 
Your right u WILL GET through it. As you always do.
Not much to say as nothing will make this better
Just lots of love coming your way from all of us

Praying good its slowed down. It does seem to be so unbelievably common.
And not spotting. Full on bleeding. Some say they can't see how anything could of stayed in there.
But it does and women who have this do go on to deliver healthy babies xx


----------



## apples2014

Hi xxxx

Just popping on to say Praying I’m also so sorry you going through this and I am holding out everything that it’s going to work out and be okay. 
I’m very relieved to hear it’s slowed down. I’m not happy to hear that you wasn’t given much support and I think Northern suggestion of a blood test is a good idea but I would also imagine right now you probably don’t want to go anywhere. We are all thinking of you and I hope and pray this is okay. I can only imagine how worried and low you might be feeling. So much love and try and keep some space in your head for it being okay too although I know that’s really really hard. So Much love xx


Bippy I’m so pleased to hear from you xxx it must be such a hard time but that’s really good about you taking some time off and going on holiday. Being away and together will be really helpful and lovely too. I’m just so heart broken for you both Bippy. 
That’s great about your consultant and the freebie too. Very kind and even though you can’t think on that now it’s good that it’s there. This last transfer for us was a freebie, we didn’t pay. I just want it to be okay for you and I’m so sorry xxxx I’ve never been to Sardinia we went to Sicily though last summer and it was amazing. It’s really good you doing this for yourselves. Lots of love xxx


Kjade I love a bit of Zoflora me! Lovely smell xx
That’s awful that they left the house like that and the owner didn’t get it cleaned though what a looser, but at least you’ve done all the hard work before the transfer lady as it’s tomorrow and you’ve got to chill now and take it easy. 
Lining of 7.9 on day 9 is absolutely fine honey. It would have thicken more of the next couple of days after as well so that’s a really good lining for day 9. 
I think I was just over 8 something on this transfer but it was passed day 9. I just mean that’s really good and one les thing to think or worry about. 

Is your transfer Friday AM or tomorrow PM? I’m going to send you lots of lovely good luck thoughts xx
Hope you’ve got lots of nice yummy foods in for the weekend and you can chill. Are you in work on Monday and Tuesday or are you off? 
I tried being off, going in all sorts on two week wait! It’s just what ever helps you get through it best. But they say nice gentle walks are good and to take it easy ish for a few days. 
I hope the house is good and your fur baby likes his new home xxx

Hi ya Mrs C and Northern and FiFi and Ruby and anyone else I’m missing or is reading. 

I haven’t said too much about being pregnant as don’t like to waffle on and I’ve not been in here too much but I don’t know what I would have done without this thread so I like to keep in with you guys. It’s almost a year since I had that 10th embryo transfer which was my 3rd chemical and I was so lost for all those months so I’m always grateful for you all. If you hadn’t encouraged me to go to Coventry again and just been as generally supportive as you have been on here I think I would have cracked up. Infertility affected my personality so much and I was so sad all the time, just really thanks for helping me so much. 
I’m 19 weeks now and feel fine although I’m still not quite myself but I am happy of course, I’m very much living in the now and am doing well. The 20 week scan is next week and we plan to find out so will share. We want to know now, we was going to keep it a surprise and not find out mostly because we wonder if we will do this again and this might be our only child but then we thought mmmm actually we want to know. 
I’m being made a bit of a fuss of medically because im 41 and had so much ivf and my blood clot issue thing and also I’ve been told am very high risk of pre eclampsia so the consultant wants me to have an elective c section but I was 17 weeks when he said that and I didn’t know what to say as I’ve not been thinking very far ahead so he said to discuss it again next time which is sept. I will do as I’m told though been through too much and will do what ever they say. It’s just not what I had thought of that’s all. Anyway that’s all from me. 

Kjade I’m going to be   For your transfer and also praying   So much love. 

Lots of love 
Apples xx


----------



## K jade

Apples so pleased to hear that the Dr's are making a fuss of you and taking everything seriously. It's only right given what u have been through 
I cannot wait to find out if your pink or blue!  

Can anyone advise on cyclogest please?
I'm slightly concerned. If I do it rectally I need to rush to toilet  and hour later . If I do it vagally it seems to melt out if me! Im concerned its not being fully absorbed .Sorry for to much info as they say.
I did hear it absorbes in 30 mins ...so in that respectI should be OK. ..?


----------



## mattysmrs

It's only the wax casing that seeps out Kjade. All the meds are absorbed within about 20 mins.


----------



## K jade

Ah fab. Thank u that's put mind at rest xx


----------



## apples2014

It’s just because you are so hot honey. 
It is all absorbed within 20 mins so try not to worry. 
Xx


----------



## K jade

Very bad news
My 2 top quality blasts haven't survived the thaw 
She's thawing the lower grade ones but they are not gonna make it let's face it
Where now? Double donation??


----------



## Pognut

Oh KJade, really really sorry to hear that. Hope the others thawed ok and that it all went well. Don't give up - grading is a really inexact science, and I've had failures from beautiful looking 5ABs while friends have had healthy babies from 3BBs. These might be the ones! Fingers and toes crossed for you.


----------



## apples2014

What the? 

I don’t even know what to say! I’m so sorry. 
I just popped on to send you a hug and I’m so sorry Kjade this must be such a horrible shock. 
Im really really gutted. 
I’m having everything crossed the other ones that they are defrosting are okay. I can’t believe this is how this has panned out for you. 

Where are you now? Are you okay? 

I know there has been so much advances with freezing and I thought this didn’t happen so much anymore. It doesn’t necessary reflect the embies quality it can be their freezing technology especially if they don’t have all the top equipment but you would hope they would but still this is a massive blow and Im gutted for you. 

I’m going into a long meeting but will check back later. 

How are we you? Fingers crossed for the other ones. Xxx

Praying how are you ? And everyone else? 

Love Apples x


----------



## K jade

Thanks ladies
Well update:
The 2 lesser quality ones survived. WTF? !
How can that happen.
Transfer bit of a nightmare as ever as I always go OTT with filling my bladder. A lesson for next time. Cause I think there will be a next time..
Told embryologist I didn't want to know about the embies. Just put them back. There are what they are
not hopeful . 
I think this is my eggs all along you know . 

So that was my last NHS go. I had a good run with them. Now where...?
With the house we aren't going to have much cash so options limited
Do I keep trying with OE? decisions xx


----------



## bippy11

kjade congrats on being pupo!   Im so sorry two of your embies didn't make it, we had the same thing happen a few years back with NHS. It's sad, but thankfully you had more. Like the others say, the grading system doesn't mean much, so try to keep some hope for this round - there may not be a next one! I really hope this will be it for you. xx

Praying how are you doing? How long till you can have a scan now? Has there been any more bleeding hun? xx

Apples I hope everything looks good at your scan next week, so happy for you and glad that they are keeping a close eye on you xx


----------



## K jade

Thanks bippy ah Yeh I can see in your signature this happened to u 2. . Did they give any indication as to why?

Feel completely robbed today 
Only redeeming factor is I am pupo albeit with 2 rubbish ones
Altthough clearly it was these so called 'top graders ' which were rubbish . Oh apparently my lining was 'beautiful ' so I can do something right it seems.
This is clearly my eggs here as to why I've never got implantation . 
Somethings always been fishy.
Last Ivf as u know was a converted iui.  I over responded to 75iu 
So in effect mild stim ivf .supposed to redeem the best quality eggs.
In that I got 2  BB blasts.(no implantation) Then 2  CC blasts. (Discarded)
Now at 31 which I was then, i feel that's poor. I mean I'm using top quality DS . Not  even average Joe stuff.
If it's a bfn that's it for oe for definite 
So upset and not sure where to go from here whatsoever 
X


----------



## praying x

Kjade I'm soo sorry to read the embies didn't thaw well but congratulations on being pupo. I can honestly say grading doesn't mean much the lower quality ones thawing well shows they are actually better and more likely to implant. Wishing you all the best.

Bippy nice to hear from you. So nice of your consultant to give you he next cycle free. I hope it will the lucky one. Hope you have a great holiday.

Apples good luck for your scan. 

Sorry I haven't been in touch been panicking and not in a great place. I was admitted to hospital with query ectopic. Lucky the scan showed all is ok not ectopic. However I am measuring 4days behind I should have been 5w5 but they measured me as 5w1 and no fetal pole or heart beat. A bit panicked as with ivf I thought I should measure correctly. They said they could see gestional sac and yolk but no.mention of yolk on scan report. Really worried praying to God. Have another scanned booked for next week and if no heart beat then I guess it's all over for me. The bleeding hasn't completely stopped either although just brown so keeping fingers crossed x


----------



## K jade

Praying keeping everything everything crossed all will be OK for u
I think 5w too early for h/b anyway 
Must be such a worrying and anxious time for u. I can't imagine xx


----------



## Northern

Praying I hope you're doing ok and holding it together, such a horrible nerve-wracking time.  5 weeks is definitely too early to see a heartbeat though - even 6w is too early for some so you're not out the game yet and if the bleeding has slowed down/stopped then that's good too - try to hold onto those little bits of hope, and I hope you get better news in a few days time, when is your scan? 

Bippy, been thinking of you too and hope you're still managing some time at home and looking after yourself. I can't imagine what you're going through and how hard it is.  That's so kind of your doctor though and one less thing for you to worry about if and when you do try again. There are some very kind people out there and he sounds like one of them.  

Kjade how is pupo-dom treating you?  Are you feeling any better about it all?  I know you've heard it all before but the better embryos aren't always the best.  Mine were always great looking, couldn't see anything wrong with them and obvs never worked.  My friend had 4 embryos, none to freeze, a 4bc blast transferred and that's the one that worked.  I'm still coming to terms with it being her first ivf but still, goes to show embryos quality means f all really. 

Apples what day is your scan?  I literally can't wait to find out what you're having!!  Honestly so excited for this, it's ridiculous   you are my success story and one of my biggest supports, please let us know when you can! 

This is a long shot ladies but I'm going to be in Birmingham on the August Bank Holiday Monday (27th).  DP is taking his youngest to some gaming convention at the NEC so I've got most of the day to kill with shopping etc lol.  Anyone fancy meeting for lunch? 

Xxx


----------



## Hilly88

Hello everyone, 

I was hoping that you might be able to answer a question that I have going round and round in my brain. We had a fresh cycle which resulted in a 5BB hatching embryo being put in. At 7dpt I began bleeding but no where near as much as I would during a normal period (not enough to fill a pad-sorry tmi) this lasted for 2 1/2 days then stopped. I had my HCG blood test later that week and it came back as negative negative, meaning the embryo did not implant at all. At our follow up appointment they could not give a reason why- we are unexplained. So I took a couple of days off work and pulled myself together! 

Now I am on day 37 of this cycle and no normal symptoms that I get pre af. Is it normal for af to be late the month following a failed cycle? As this was my first I’m not quite sure what to expect! 

Any responses would be gratefully received!!! 

Thanks in advance xxxx


----------



## Northern

Hi Hilly, 

Have you stopped your medication?  If you're still on progesterone that can hold off your period.  Also have you done any home tests?  People's bodies respond differently with ivf so it could be a few days late, but if there's still no sign then do get in touch with your clinic for advice. 
Unfortunately clinics can't always say why treatment doesn't work - however don't be discouraged, bfn's are hard to deal with but most people will have success within a few cycles.  I don't know how many embryos you had or if you had any to freeze, but there's no reason yet to suggest that you won't have success next time  

Xx


----------



## rubyring

Hi everyone, I'm back from holiday!! My tan is already fading....... but it was a very nice relaxed time after a rather crazy busy time.
Now I've just got to catch up with everyone's news, bear with me.....
xx


----------



## rubyring

First of all - Bippy - I'm so so sorry   
It looks like you have had several early MC? I've had 2, honestly they're worse than a negative. I think the longer it goes on the worse it is when it fails. What clinic are you at? Have they any suggestions? Have you been to a recurrent MC specialist? My MC doc is very good, was recommended to me by 3 different people, although he hasn't succeeded with me so far. I hope you're taking care of yourselves and take time to recover. Sending big   


Praying - I hope you're doing OK? I've never had bleeding but can just imagine how scary it must be. But I think your scan was too early. There's nothing you can do but wait, I know it's really hard. Another big   


K jade - fantastic that you're in your new house! Shame it was left in such a state though. I hope you're settling in nicely. As for cyclogest - hate it! I prefer utrogestan which I had on my 1st 2 donor cycles. Slightly less messy ugh. As for your frozen embryos, it's weird the "best" ones didn't thaw properly but the others were OK. I agree with what everyone has said, the grading doesn't mean much. It's going on looks more than anything else. So the prettiest girl in the class is going to top marks in all her exams, err, no!! The 2 less good embryos were still good enough to freeze, so they had developed well up to that point. So who knows? I know you're trying to protect yourself a bit by assuming they will fail, but nobody knows. Wishing you masses of good luck! And a big    (I'm amazed you got so many cycles out of the NHS, well done!! IF you need to go elsewhere you can do your research and pick a clinic which will suit you, there are so many to choose from who may have better technology than the NHS, I don't know.)


Apples - good to hear all is going smoothly!
Hilly - I think delayed bleeding after IVF is common, it messes up everything. That could have been a very light period? Often there is no "reason", there are so many factors, and different doctors believe different things "work". Unfortunately it's all a lottery, which some win 1st or 2nd go, Some of us do multiple cycles before success, and some may well never succeed (probably me!). Sorry to be a bit negative - just take your time and regroup before another try. Good luck!


As for me, thanks for all your sympathy when I explained my history a bit more before we went on holiday. Yes 2010 was horrendous. And it seems all my problems with the 5 donor cycles are probably due to my history of infection after my 2nd IVF. It's still hard to believe I had such bad luck. 
I tried not to think too much about everything when we were away, but I did give my DH a quick summary of my meeting with the doc because I was thinking about that. I'm finding it really hard to get back to now, I've been successfully putting off contacting all the people/clinics I need to....   I'll give you all an update soon
xx


----------



## praying x

Hi all sorry haven't read all he messages will come back later and read. Just feeling awful today went for a rescan and I'm only measuring 5w5 I should be 6w5 the scan didn't show heart beat or fetal pole so I guess things are not looking good for me. Feel soo upset.


----------



## K jade

Praying x I'm so desperately hearbroken for u 
I cannot believe this is happening to u after all you've been through 
Will they scan again just to double check for any change in a week or so? I know it's a long shot.
Sending u love and strength xxx


----------



## Northern

Oh praying I'm so very sorry this is happening to you, so much uncertainty and it's been going on so long.  Wish I could say something to help but am thinking of you and sending love   xxx


----------



## praying x

Thank you ladies. I know it's a long shot and I'm just hanging on but really praying for a miracle. I will be rescaned next thursday.


----------



## Northern

Apples I’ve just tried pm-ing you but your inbox is full! Did you have your scan? 

Praying glad you’ve got another scan booked but it must be so hard how this is dragging on, you must just need to know one way or the other, sending you big hugs  

Hi to everyone else xx


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## StrawberrySundae

Hi just jumping in here again, hope that’s ok.

Ruby ring it looks like you saw Dr S in Epsom for your full immune tests? I just wondered what you thought of it, as I only went to the NHS MC clinic where only basic blood tests were done. He told me to go to his private clinic, I think the tests were getting on for £1500   I darent mention it to my DH as he thinks we should just get on with transfers, although the last 2 were bfn’s   I can’t help thinking I should do the private tests if I get another bfn, as I just read somewhere that repeated OE failures over 40 can make things worse once you get to DE due to accumulated immune responses  

Bippy I’m sorry about your news too. I agree with Ruby that mcs are worse than bfn’s! What a choice though  

Sorry it’s been hard going  Praying   I really hope you have a nice surprise next week.

Hi KJade, Northern, Apples and anyone I’ve missed, hope you’ve all had a nice weekend  

I’m feeling a bit fed up at having to wait so long for my next cycle due to timings & new job etc. I’ve been ttc since 2011 and ivf since 2014..


----------



## K jade

morning ladies 

hope your all doing OKish

im still in the 2ww. Im not testing early to be honest as I'm on so many drugs it'll be very hard to keep at them if I get a negative. I've gotta wean off the steroids as it is which is gonna be fun. not. 
im pretty sure this hasn't worked to be honest. 
not really sure where to go from here. 
also feel a bit de-ja-vu like as exactly four years ago we  found out DHs SSR was unsuccessful and we had to decide on DS or adoption and it felt like such a major crossroads to be at. 
fast forward to now as low and behold DS also not successful ! so feel very sad and emotional right now. again we find ourselves at a crossroads. 
im thinking double donor but you lose so much faith in your body I don't even feel confident that will work. DH very keen to move onto adoption as he feels we've tried everything  now. 
I know im pre empting as I haven't actually tested but we know our own bodies, especially us BFN veterans on here!

strawberry im completely with you on feeling fed up. I also started ttc in 2011 and feel further form my dream than ever right now. 

sorry for the moan ladies just needed to get  it all out. 
love to all 
xxx


----------



## apples2014

Hi 

Northern I’m so sorry thanks i didn’t realise it was full. I’ve cleared some space. How are you guys? How is the progression? I’m rooting for you guys so much. I’m away over the bank holiday weekend boo! Xxx

Bippy and Mrs C are you okay? Always thinking of you both, we’ve always been so supportive to me and I hope you are okay and wonder if you have a plan, Bippy I’m still really pleased to hear how supportive your clinic are. That is so much of what you need. Mrs C did you follow up with Penny? Lots of love xx

Kjade your post sounds like how I used to feel and how I used to post, I just have so much empathy. Don’t test any earlier than day 11 or 12 anyway as then you have that limbo rubbish of is it too early?
I hope you are completely and utterly wrong and you have a bfp. I’ve replied to your message about embryo donation but I hope you don’t need it honey and this works.   I hate how you feel, I understand so much though. You know we are all here for you, you have been so supportive to all of us xxx

Hi to praying. I feel so much for you I hope the days to the scan go quickly and you know soon the limbo and not knowing must be so hard. I know I said it before but I wish I could think of something to make you feel better. Just sending you so much love and luck and hoping so much for you. Lots and lots of love xxx

HI Fifi if you are reading xx

Hi Hilly 

Sunday and Ruby hello it’s nice to hear from you again. 
Scrapping yourselves off the floor and getting the strength to do it again is really horrible and hard. I actually have Kjade and this thread to thank for helping me sort my head out enough to be bothered to have more investigations and try again, when infertility has gone on for years and you are in so much pain and so fed up it’s hard to know. 
I’m so grateful for this thread. I wouldn’t have gone back to Coventry for more tests without the suggetions and encouragement I’ve had from here. I was really lost and very low, so low it was awful.
If I hadn’t have gone back to Coventry I wouldn’t have know that I had picked up a infection called CD138 (from having so much treatment probably was the reason) and I needed to take a course of antibiotics before an embryo transfer! 
I also wouldn’t have know my uterus was hostile to implanting without certain conditions. 
The only time I followed Coventry advice was my 11th transfer and it worked. The last 5 transfers before this one were perfect top quality donor embryo blasts and I had 3 chemicals and was so lost. After all the years of own egg and own sperm failures then the 5 failed donor transfers! I am waffling on really to say my advice is if you don’t feel good about your clinic or your consultant in any way don’t be afraid to change and whilst a lot of tests are draining and can be expensive it’s worth considering some of them. 
Just hoping so much for you both with what is next xxx

Big hello to anyone else that is reading that I have missed off, am sorry if I have. 

We went to the 20 week scan last week. 
All was perfect with the baby. I had some not so great news but it is okay so I’m trying to not worry. 
I’m consultant lead after loosing my dad to the massive unexpected blood clot that I’ve inherited the mutation for so due to being aware of this the consultant ordered an extra none rountine scan at the same time as 20 week one to check the blood flow from me to the placenta and it’s not quite as it should be. It’s not terrible but it’s not as it should be either so I’ve got to go back for more scans. But right now the baby is okay and they kind of really drummed into me I shouldn’t worry too much about this and weight of the baby is average weight for 20 weeks so that was reassuring. I can’t do anything about this and they are monitoring so I’m okay but I think it’s better to know about and for them to watch so it’s okay. 
I’m sorry I didn’t post earlier. 

Now the really nice news part that I promised to share. We caved and found out the gender and we are having a little boy which is very wonderful and exciting and my DH is absolutely over the moon, as am I. So a little dude Christmas apples arriving in December by elective c section they are currently saying due to a few other issues. 
Anyway that is quite enough of me! 

Lots of love 

Apples xxx


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## K jade

apples ive replied to your PM but just wanted to say yaaayyyyyyyyyy for a baby boy!!    
regarding the blood flow scan sorry this has given you a scare, it sounds as if your medical team are being extremely diligent however and leaving no stone unturned with everything so that's reassuring.
if it was me Id possibly be tempted to take some time off work and rest and relax at home , or maybe ask for restricted duties..? dunno if that's an options for you
only because of how stressful your particular job is
kjxxx


----------



## bippy11

Hi everyone, sorry I'm a bit quiet on here at the moment, I'm very up and down. Some days seem ok and I feel I am being strong and things are ok and then the next it all comes crashing down. Being off work is helping and DH seems to have the patience of a saint and is so kind to me even when I am being snappy and unfair.. I honestly don't know how I'd manage all this without him. I know it will hit him later, it always does. I don't really want to see anyone at the moment and don't feel capable of being sociable.. I might just become a hermit! It worries me whether Ill be able to get back to work and life in September, but for now I am trying to put that out of my mind. 

kjade really really really hoping for you hun! otd must be approaching, please please be a bfp for you   xxx

apples - congrats!   wonderful news it's a little boy, it must feel so amazing to know. I am glad they are keeping a close eye on you with this blood flow complication. So unfair that when we have been through so much to get pregnant that we can't just have a straight forward pregnancy with no additional worries. But it sounds like you are in really good hands, so you just have to trust that and try to enjoy this time as best you can xxx

praying Im so so sorry hun!   I agree, it's not looking good, you do of course hear of miracles, but sadly it doesn't sound like your chances are good. Sorry I don't know if it's ok to say that. I really wish you weren't going through this too hun, I hope you can at least get some peace of mind soon. For me in a strange way when we got confirmation that it was an MC it was almost a relief to not be in this horrible limbo land anymore and could get on with grieving the loss. No matter how hard you try not to get your hopes up, it's impossible not to think what if and imagine the miracle of things turning around and working out. It's so unfair hun. How are you holding up? I was a complete mess at the point you are at. Are you working? Sending you so much love and strength for your scan tomorrow and please feel free to DM me     xx

strawberry hugs to you, nice to hear from you   xx

ruby we are at St Mary's RMC, who is your MC doc? Glad you had a lovely relaxing holiday, although it's always so hard coming back, most people just have to deal with going back to work, but we have to deal with facing the realities of treatment again on top of that. xx

Northern how are you? How's it all progressing with your process? Has SW met with SD yet? Hope it's moving forward hun xxx


----------



## K jade

ha just a quickie but I did a test and it broke! as in not even the control line appeared.  im that infertile I actually break a pregnancy test.
it must have thought a man had weed on it . x


----------



## K jade

OK definite BFN for me there's a surprise!  
Really not sure where to go from here
And seem to be going grey rapidly!


----------



## apples2014

Kjade 
I’m so very sorry. 

It is absolutely gutting and I’m really sorry Hun. 
Is that you finished with the NHS funded cycles now? I think you said it was your last one. Do they still offer you a follow up meeting to discuss it though! If you can get that booked in. I really hoped you was wrong and it was going to be a BFP. Is so unfair and I know it’s pointless saying it’s unfair but it is and it’s cruel and it’s so hard. Just sending you a massive massive massive hug. 

I would find one or two clinics you like the look of and arrange to talk to them and get fresh eyes on you. So much love xxxx maybe for not right now but book in the conversation for when you are ready. 


Bippy I was so nice to hear from you. I think you are doing amazing and being in and keeping to yourself for now is really understandable, you literally are licking your wounds and giving yourself a chance to process it all. It’s so painful Bippy, I think you are doing really well and you will come out the other side of this but only when you are ready. And you have a good and understanding clinic ready to support when ever it feels right. 
I had to take from last August to this April completely off ivf as I felt broken, just take care lovely and carry on as you are as to me it sounds like you are doing exactly what you need to do xxx

Hi everyone else. 
Love Apples xx

Praying how are you? Xx


----------



## K jade

thanks hun
xxx
im not sure. I feel so done with treatment and I don't have a the feeling I ever can be pregnant. weirdly over the past few months I started to think about surrogacy. now Im not sure why as that isn't even an option for me with questionable eggs and no sperm , but there's a strong feeling in my mind that I need to 'circumvent' my [email protected] body if that makes sense. so I wander if I'm sort of letting go of the idea of a birth child in some way. 
I honestly never see myself ever being pregnant and that has been creeping in on me for a while...xx


----------



## bippy11

oh kjade I'm so so sorry hun!   I know you were expecting it, but it's so hard when you get confirmation. Like Apples I had so hoped that you would be proved wrong. Big hug to you, take a bit of time to look after yourself with chocolate and wine and whatever else you fancy. Can you have a bit of time off work? xx     

Praying thinking of you today as well and hoping that you do get a miracle turnaround xx   

Apples, thank you lovely. We are going to see our Dr next week before we go on holiday to make a bit of a plan. I think I just need to admit that this is hard and I am not fine or coping as well as I'd like and not put pressure on myself. We had a lovely sunny couple of days away end of last week walking along the south coast and it was beautiful and physically hard and did us so much good being out in nature and away from everything. So then I thought I was better, but it turns out that when I got back and had to try and deal with seeing people and other things, I wasn't really. It takes time. You give me hope, it's so nice to hear how you are progressing and that it really is possible even after so many fails.


----------



## bippy11

kjade sorry I hadn't seen your last message earlier when I posted. I know what you mean, I find myself gradually sliding and accepting that this might never happen, which a few years ago I refused to even think or talk about. I guess it happens gradually and that is how people come to accept other avenues over time. It's so tough for you right now hun especially as your two little frosties didn't survive the thaw so you don't have a back up. But you don't have to make any decisions right now, just give yourself a bit of time to grieve for this loss and you can then see how you feel. Sending you lots of hugs and love xxx  

Northern forgot to say - unfortunately I can't make a meet up end of August - we'll be away in Sardinia. No offence to Bham but I think I'm gonna chose Sardinia   it would be lovely to catch up sometime though. Let us know how things are going with the adoption process, really hope things will start to move forward for you soon xx


----------



## rubyring

K Jade - I'm so sorry, I was really hoping your instincts were wrong. Sending big   
Your post after the first pee stick did make me smile, I know it's not funny at all but I loved your sense of humour despite everything. As for going grey, my hairdresser calls it natural highlights which I think is a positive way of looking at things! But I'm with you on the belief I'll never be pregnant (again). It was 3 years ago that I was pregnant the first time, and actually began to believe it before it went wrong. I never believed in the next MC or the chemical after. What with realising it was 3 years and my birthday of impossibly high numbers I got really gloomy in June.


Praying - so sorry about the scan and I know the waiting is horrendous. I truly believe all these early scans and tests are great when they're good, but they're awful when they're not good because they always say let's wait a week and test again. Which feels like FOREVER. Sending   


Bippy - it's going to take time to recover emotionally so don't beat yourself up for felling rubbish. It's normal. I'm glad you're off work for a bit, it always helps not having to see other people. I went to St Mary's first after a friend went there. She had success but she'd already had a child, and got pregnant really easily. She had a thyroid issue and one of her MC hadn't properly sorted itself out but I think she only took aspirin. If you think you need more intense MC help then the Epsom place was highly recommended to me, by a different friend and by an acupuncture chap I used to see. I'm glad you've got a holiday booked, you can get away from this rain!


Strawberry - yes Dr S in Epsom. Feel free to PM me and I can tell you a bit more maybe. 
Apples - thanks for the update and amazing news that its a boy!! I'm sorry things are not quite as straightforward as they could be, but it sounds like you are being well monitored which is great. You are our ray of sunshine....  


As for me, I've got a repeat hysteroscopy booked in for next week, more £xxxx


----------



## StrawberrySundae

Hi just a quick visit to send KJade a  and hope some inspiration comes to you when you’re feeling a bit better. I’m very sorry xx

Ruby thank you yes I’ll send you a PM soon. 

Bippy Sardinia sounds lovely! Never been but I hope you’re feeling excited planning your trip!

Apples so nice to hear your 20 week scan went well and congratulations on having a baby boy!  
How did you find out about CD138 can I ask? You’ve been so generous with information and very supportive on here, so nice to see things going well after a long treck.

Hope everyone else is ok xx


----------



## apples2014

Hi 

Strawberry Sundae quick reply, it was Coventry. 
Prof Brosen’s at the consult you have before the biopsy is taken said that as I had had so many transfers he would ask the lab to check for infections at the time they examined the biopsy. He didn’t mention Cd138 etc then but he called me some weeks later to discuss the results and explained it had been found in my biopsy and wrote a little report which he emailed. I showed this to my clinic (Gennet in Prague) and they prescribed doxycycline (which is what Prof Brosen’s had also suggested) xx

Apples xxx


Kjade I understand your post, take extra special care of yourself this weekend and be really selfish and do what ever you want to do for now. Thinking of you xx


----------



## K jade

hi ladies sorry to totally splurge. thank you all for your kind words it does help. I feel totally bereaved at the moment to be honest. it all started from losing those embies 2  weeks ago. and now the BFN just feel so low. 
im not sure where to go from here.  I don't think there will be any more OE ivf and that's OK. id like to try donor embies, but will that even get me any further?...im not sure.
can it really be the case that medical science cant get me pregnant in 2018?
DH said last night we need to stop as its never going to work, so im finding that hard to accept too. 
prpably not really a good idea to make any plans right now when im in this frame of mind
xxx


----------



## praying x

Kjade I'm so soo sorry to.read your news I can only imagine what you are going through. Take your time...thinking of next step right now might not be the best. You're hormones are all over the place. Never say never things work out in the end somehow... wether that's de or dd you'll come to terms with it. I wish you all the strength. Feel free to pm me I've been through this too many times. Sending you hugs x

Apples congratulations. Baby boy such lovely news. Wishing you all the best.

Rubyring good luck for your hysto where are you having it done? I hope it all goes well for you x


Strawberry sundae immunes are soo expensive...I've spent thousands on it and it hasn't got be anywhere unfortunately but for other it's worked first time after immunes. Good luck

Bippy how are you feeling?

Hi to everyone else soo sorry if I've missed you. Its difficult to read on a mobile. But hope.all.is good x


I am touched by all your kindness thank you to each of you that took the time to wish me luck and read my story. Sorry I haven't been in touch it's been a difficult time.for.me and worrying everyday on what will.happen next. I thought getting a positive after 8 years was hard enough but actually this is even harder. The scan did show a heart beat but it is still very early days according to my sonographer. So I am still in the waiting game. Praying everyday that this year is a good one for us but being realistic too. I'm not out of danger zone just yet.


----------



## K jade

Praying I'm so happy to see your update. A heartbeat is amazing and such a massive milestone. Please god let this be your happy ending now!!
Thank u so much for your kind words.  Just been in tears all weekend .
I'm fine with DD but almost don't feel even that will be enough to to get me pregnant anymore . I think it's the zero implantation thing. If I was getting chems or m/cs I might have a bit more hope. Half the time I'm not fully sure if I'm actually a woman. 
Why am I the worst most complex infertility case?
Why has nothing ever worked for us?
I know we all feel this way on here

Can I ask what u think may have made the differencefor u this time? U did dd right? I know it's early days xxx


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## bippy11

Praying that's amazing, yey!   So chuffed for you. A heartbeat is excellent! How is it measuring, is it still behind? How soon can you have your next scan? This stage is pure torture hun, so much worry and anxiety, but it's amazing that you're still in with a chance. Hoping so so much this works out    xx

kjade hun, thinking of you and sending you big hugs    xx hope you're able to have some time off work at the moment? It's completely understandable that you are feeling really low, I've been crying a lot too, it's probably good to let it out. Like you, I'm also wondering what's wrong with my body, what is the underlying issue? I think I am getting towards the end of new things to test and things to try differently. I am going to try this cut during transfer cycle next time as recommended by prof Brosens. It's so hard that we can't get answers as to what is going wrong and what we can do to make it work! xx


----------



## K jade

Bippy im so with you there
Why can’t there just be a straightforward  answer?
Im so done with it being ‘cause life’s not fair’
It just doesn’t cut it as a reason in my eyes

They put a man on the moon 50 years ago yet in 2018 science can’t get me pregnant

Ladies who’ve had a HYSTO  can anyone tell me if this is worth having?
I’m starting to think my implantation issues are uterine / structural as immunes and egg quality often lead to chems or m/c’s. 
Neither of which I have

Could I have a uterine septum even though nothing has ever shown on a scan  and I’ve never ever had a pregnancy?

@Mattysmrs not sure how much you follow this thread but I know this was your issue can I ask how you went about this?


Also can anyone give me any advice on how to get NHS to refer me for one? As if I tell them it’s fertility related they’ll just say no as I’ve reached the end of the line in that respect as far as they are concerned.


----------



## Northern

Kjade sorry I forget have you been to the Coventry clinic?  I always think if I had my time again I'd take the hit and visit them before another cycle - my one regret before doing my 4th/5th round I think.  Just would be good to get thoughts from the few people who are actually researching/paying attention to recurrent implantation failure.  They might at least have an idea which potential issue to focus on or test for.  So hard when there are so many and no-one really knows anything about them! 

Hope you're feeling a bit better in yourself, sounds like you've had a really rough weekend.  Has your dh been looking after you?  The grieving is horrible - we grieve for so much in ivf, and it's like each failure you end up grieving the ones before all over again as well.  Don't make any plans just yet, just let things mull over in your mind but don't rush anything.  Lots of baths and wine and maybe some decorating in your lovely new house!  Sending you hugs xx  

Praying been thinking of you too - that's great there is a heartbeat, have everything crossed that it's just a little slow-growing or smaller than average but otherwise a healthy little baby in there.  Such an anxious time, hope it's not too long til your next scan and things look back on track by then xxx

Bippy hope you're doing as well as you can and looking forward to your holiday - when do you go away?  Think it will be just what you need, I would love to go to Sardinia it looks amazing. 

We're just back from a few days in south-west Scotland, which was a nice break.  Took dp's youngest away with us and he seemed to enjoy it.  Good to be away and not at work, but I couldn't shake the feeling that someone was missing, the gap where I want our little one to be just felt really obvious, that empty seat in the car just brought it home to me what I'm missing.  Generally though I'm doing ok at the moment though we've still no progress.  I made a cuddly baby elephant at the weekend for my pregnant friend's baby - proud of myself for doing something positive and feeling ok about it. 

xxx

PS Apples so sorry I haven't pm'd you as I promised - holiday wifi was not great.  A little boy!!!!!  Amazing!     so nice to have some good news on here lol, sorry there was more worry to come with it though.  Sure they will keep a close eye on it, and the further along you get the more clearly they can see and respond to any concerns xxxx


----------



## K jade

Northern I went there in May last year.
I didn't have any follow up with them as my results were normal - uNKs 2%. 
however you've made a good point- maybe I should ask for this now..?
Someone must be able to tell me something. 

well done for making the elephant toy. your doing better than me my love. think I would have fed it to the dog! . not in the mood right now for other peoples baby joy. 
I'm completely with you on that empty space. I feel it lots. now more than ever. its very sad. 
I'm sorry you are no further forward. have you had any contact with SS or the kids ?
I hope there is some movement for you soon 
xxx


----------



## mattysmrs

Kjade, even after umpteen scans and a lap and dye, my septum was never spotted. It was only when I went and found a clinic for implantation failure that he performed a hysteroscopy especially to have a look at my uterus for anything that could be impeiding implantation. Not sure how you'd go about an NHS referral for one. I'm guessing private clinic would be your best bet.


----------



## Bettyville

Good morning ladies,
I haven’t been on FF for ages. How r u all this morning?

Following a 16mth break after our 2nd failed cycle We are on the verge of starting our last round of treatment - we’ve moved clinics to one in central London now too.

Feeling so nervous and quite frankly at the end of the journey!

How r u all? Is anyone on Instagram for fertility stuff??

Betty x


----------



## Bettyville

Sorry I wrote my post this morning! It never sent and that’s why it says Good morning!!

Haven’t just woke up! 🤣


----------



## praying x

Kjade thank you for your wishes. I know exactly how you feel when ladies would talk about miscarriages or chemical pregnancis I would think gosh atleast you've got that far I've had 7 ivf's with zero implantation even with immunes and de cycle nothing. But now im always worried about mc this is really hard for me to cope with.This is a de cycle I think the difference this time has been (3rd de) a hysto at serum they are truely amazing. I've has 4 hystos and 2 laps elsewere and was always told all is ok apart from blocked tubes but serum found a septum and dead tissue and got rid of it and think this helped. Nhs are not very good with hystos in my opinion.

Bippy thank you for your kindness. I'm not measuring perfectly still so everyday is a worry. I just read today (in another group) of a girl who had a heart bean at 7weeks and it stopped later she discovered it at 10 weeks..it's such a worry.


----------



## rubyring

Hi everyone,
Strawberry - I've finally replied!
Apples - interesting to read about needing antibiotics. I had a biopsy at the last hysto and it came back all OK. I'm assuming that's the same thing? Anyway my next clinic prescribe doxy in the cycle so hopefully I'm covered. (I had antibiotics with the fist 2 donor cycles which were my best cycles, but not with the most recent 3 so I'm happy to take it.)
Bippy - take care x


K jade - I'm sorry you're suffering. I'm with you on being the worst case! I think you'd be better off doing a hysto privately. I've had so many scans and even hysto before but nobody has ever mentioned the septum. It's only partial so my MC/immunes doc thinks the septum is not a problem, and my next clinic think the same. I truly believe each doc believes their own thing, the MC/immune doc thinks everything can be solved with his immune treatment, the clinics think everything is down to egg/embryo quality etc. The Serum hysto does sound amazing, though I've heard some other places think it's too invasive. Who knows! I was tempted by Serum but got so scared because of my history and previous surgeries. 
Mattysmrs - where did you have your hysto?


I said I'd update the advice I got from the hysto doc.
Well obviously I can do nothing and just cycle again.
Or I can have a hysto to remove the septum. This sounds relatively straightforward. And he says a partial septum increases MC and poor pregnancy outcomes. Removing it would improve pregnancy outcome.
Thirdly I'm still concerned about the advice to have the Essures fitted. I have/had hydrosalpinx which reduces chances of IVF working by about 50%. The best thing is to remove the tubes by laparoscopy. But a lap is very risky for me because of my previous surgeries. Having Essures fitted blocks the tubes but IVF success rates are much lower than with tubal removal, and may increase MC rate. So the ideal is to remove the tubes, and Essures. He explained that patients do sometimes have complex history like me. He said he would try to do a lap first, going in just under my rib. (It's a long way from there to the tubes presumably and everything is apparently stuck together...) If that wasn't possible he'd do open surgery, low down, a horizontal cut. He would want a bowel surgeon present too. All this would be very expensive, very scary, probably very painful. And as he said there are no guarantees the IVF would work afterwards. I didn't ask about recovery time but the thought of major surgery again is too much. If the Essures or anything else was making me ill then I'd have to, but I cannot face this surgery. There's no way my husband wants me to have major surgery. But the doc's explanations were calm and clear, unlike the greek doc who basically said yes we can do it, without explaining how, and without seeing me and only having a quick chat about my history. I'm sure the greek docs are excellent but it just panicked me way too much!! 


Praying - great news about the heartbeat, hang in there. There's nothing you can do but wait. I knew not to have a scan too early so my first one was at 7+ weeks. Heartbeat, all looked good. I started to believe......then the scan at 9+ weeks no HB, no growth. It happens, but most pregnancies continue. I was told, if you get a positive, it's most likely you'll continue. Same with scans. This is why I wonder if all these amazing scans we can have really help..... Hang in there x


----------



## K jade

hi ladies

Betty nice to hear form you and glad you are getting going again

Ruby so sorry your in such a dilemma about what to do regarding surgery. I honestly do not know what id do 
arrghh what a nightmare for you
i know there was a lady on here not long ago who is now pregnant after surgery in Greece and she said that the UK just doesn't compare and she'd never have surgery in UK again. but that's not to say its easy and not scary to just hop on a plane to a foreign country and give a Dr free reign while your on an operating table!
i hope you can come to a decision. its so hard isn't it
xx

thanks ladies for all the info on hystos etc and for all the private messages too
im still deciding what to do but your info has been very helpful.

I called the clinic yesterday and spoke to the nurse who had always seen me throughout my time there. she just said how gutted she was for me and she did sound it. I almost felt sad for her! she said the consultant and embryologist were meeting tomorrow to talk about my case and I will get feedback about what they think . anyway I've managed to get a few things done through the tears:

ive asked to see the clinic counsellor and hoping she can do so away from the clinic. 
ive contacted the local endometriosis clinic and asked if i can be seen via self referral as endo has always been a big question mark with me and this can wreck havoc with implantation. 
ive asked for overtime at work so that i can save quicker. 
i am going to try *not* to be bitter towards my siblings who were all able to have children easily (this will be very hard)
I have decided that when people start asking me if I have/want children I am just going to start saying I cant have children. not the whole joking/ waving hands about how I like cream carpets and lie ins. 
DH and are going to start to look into adoption. I don't have to close the treatment door just yet but I don't see any harm in exploring it/ dipping our toes in and of course we need to finish the house first.

anyway that's me for now. 
no doubt ill have another meltdown in days to come

love to all xxx


----------



## K jade

ps apples hope all is OK with you and bubbs
give us an update if you can my love
xxxx


----------



## bippy11

Hello lovelies, just a quick one to say that I'm off on holiday tomorrow (woohoo   ) so I'll be quiet on here for a couple of weeks, but will catch up with you all when I get back. Sorry I haven't got time to do personals - flapping around trying to pack and get ready! xx


----------



## Northern

Bippy hope you have a wonderful, restful holiday!  Enjoy some nice time with your dh and get some much needed relaxation. Would love to hear all about it when you get back! 

Kjade that sounds a really great list of proactive stuff - and I think it's v brave of you to start telling people 'actually we're dealing with infertility' rather than just brushing it off when people ask.  The more people can do that (and I'm not one of them but I sometimes wish I was) the more people will learn how common it actually is, it'll help other people to share their experiences and feel less alone, and it might just help people to think before they ask intrusive questions or make assumptions.  Let us know how you get on the next time someone asks!!
Good that you're keeping adoption as an option too - you don't need to do anything official but the more you can find out about any option the better.  Definitely look into Foster to Adopt - I was expecting to be told we'd struggle to get a young baby, but the sw we talked to was really positive about it, saying things like '0-6 months', and even "oh yes, there's plenty room for a crib in here" when we showed her our room! 

I've just set myself a new target deadline for success: my mother messaged yesterday to say she's booking a big house in July 2020 for a family holiday/celebration, it's my dad's 70th that year and also their Ruby wedding anniversary.  Big get-together with all the family.  So I absolutely want to be able to attend with our little one in tow.  It feels realistic.  Surely in the next 2 years something has to go our way?!!!  

Xxx


----------



## apples2014

Hi 
Just saying hi 

Kjade you doing okay? I’m not sure about hysto and being a cure hun also I am such a fan of the nhs but I’m not sure they are the same on the nhs as they are from fertility clinics. Penny loves them and I was already a patient of serum so agreed to have one. The hospital in Athens is spotless and it so nicer than any hospital I’ve ever been (private so nice) but listen it’s scary laying there whilst everyone talks in Greek and they are knocking you out but they do make you feel as relaxed as they can and they are blinking lovely. But to you even meet it I had one there and guess what ? Nothing up in there! Some low level inflammation was seen on the dvd you look at after but you need some for implanting so it wasn’t any issue so it was just a procedure to rule it out!! 
But guess what almost 2 years later I had another one in London at Gennet’s London satellite Clinic and the doctor didn’t put me to sleep for that one and he turned the screen round and literally said Apples why are you here for this? (Obvs he said my name not apples) but again I thought oh better time that out so I’m not saying don’t pursue one but get some advice on if you need it from a new Clinic. Gennet didn’t tell me to the second one I wanted to double double check ! 

I never had chemicals with any own egg cycles but I had 3 of them once move onto donor embies and they weee very good quality embryos but this is when we cracked that actually my body was trying to implant but then that’s where Coventry came in and figured out I was non receptive unless on a natural cycle! I hope you are doing okay, I know exactly where you head is at and feeling that your body won’t do it and it won’t get there but if you hadn’t replied to my sad posts here after embryo transfer number 10 and you really encouraged me to try more tests and I went back to Coventry and I had a consult with another clinic to get a second opinion about natural FET so I have you to thank for that as I was so low and couldn’t face even sending an email to arrange anything xxx
I have equally known a fair few people from here that had a hysto and it found all manor of issues, lots of scare tissues that would make implanting tough, other things like polps that not seen on a scan. But I think I’m saying maybe have a consult with a new Clinic and see what they say about a hysto because it might be a good idea too but I think you need guidance on it. 


How is everyone else ? Praying it’s so nice to hear from you. How are you??
Hi to Ruby  and Strawberry and everyone else? 

Northern I loved your post. Really good goals too and that’s good. 
I think we just all get so completely lost in all the sadness and back to back set backs it’s hard to remember to have nice plans and goals. Will reply to your PM too I started to and refreshed my phone by mistake and lost it. 

Bippy hope you are having the best time in Sardinia. Italy is a special place lots of love x

Nothing to report just saying hello. 
I won’t know anymore about growth and blood flow to placenta until the extra scan and seeing the consultant in early Sept but am just keeping positive and I’m growing so think he must be. 

Lots and lots of love 

Apples xxxx


----------



## K jade

Apples thank you hunny. 
I remember you posting last year and how lost you were. Im so glad you got there as you deserve this so much, plus it gives us all a bit of hope and faith
I think I'm in that place you were in last year. lost lost lost. 
Just a quick question . how did you get Mr B to do the ERA for you? as it doesn't appear to be something he offers as standard. I just knew you had a receptivity issues. call it a 6th sense. now I need to apply that 6th sense to my own situation  

i'm glad you have posted as we are all wandering about you and hoping you are OK . glad to hear you are ticking along 

Bippy hope u are having a lovely hol 

praying anything from your end?

loveK kj xx


----------



## Molly87

Hi all,

I’m currently at the end of the 2ww on my third transfer but I’m pretty confident it will end in a BFN. I just wanted to ask at what point you start doing more tests and what those tests are. I’m completely clueless but feeling like there must be an implantation issue. We have MFI so I was never lead to believe I’d have any trouble conceiving so although naive this has all been a bit of a shock for me. 

Any help and guidance on the next steps would be really appreciated. Feeling really lost at the moment and like I will never be pregnant. 

xx


----------



## K jade

Molly I recognise you from the DS thread.  urrghhhh  im soooo sorry you find yourself here!
I am in the exact same situation as you 
3 failed transfers and the only reason we were doing this is cause we needed DS! it is HORRENDUS after a diagnosis of NOA. Im starting to wander what I did in a past life   
did you always  have blasts transferred? what sort of grades?
I did all the immune testing and more after 3 IUIs and 2 ivf transfers but still got negative on my last transfer although this time my embies were not good. ive practically used up all the donors on the books. 
do you have any auto immune issues or anything? sometimes this can be a red flag for immune related implant. failure
don't worry we're all in the same boat here and there ARE success stories
xxx


----------



## Molly87

Hi KJade,

Thanks for your response. I really felt like we were due some good luck this time! We skipped IUI and went straight to IVF as the odds were better - probably a good job we did! I agree, the double blow is awful. 

I’ve had 3 blasts transferred all of good quality. I’m not sure what my first was (possibly 4ab) but second was a 3ab which they graded A*. My frozen blast wasn’t quite as good at a 4bc but they were happy with all 3. 

I’m not aware of any issues - I guess I just need to ask at our follow up but I understand any further testing will be at a cost to us! I have one more NHS cycle (plus maybe one more at the clinics expense as on my last round the embroyscope failed 🙄). I just don’t want to plough on with my last cycle if there is a clear reason why it isn’t working. On my fresh cycles I bled at day 6 so not sure if I need more progesterone but I’m sure it’s not quite as simple as that! 

Not that I want anyone else to be in this position but it is nice to know I’m not alone. xx


----------



## Pognut

KJade, I asked Prof Brosens about the ERA test - after what Apples said about it! - and he said that they weren't recommending it any more as the evidence base suggested it didn't work. He sent me the piece of research on it he was referring to, this is it:

J Assist Reprod Genet. 2018 May 8. doi: 10.1007/s10815-018-1190-9. [Epub ahead of print]
Does the endometrial receptivity array really provide personalized embryo transfer?
Bassil R1, Casper R1,2, Samara N1, Hsieh TB1, Barzilay E3, Orvieto R3,4, Haas J5,6.
Author information
1
TRIO Fertility partners, 655 Bay St 11th floor, Toronto, Ontario, M5G 2K4, Canada.
2
Division of Reproductive Sciences, Lunenfeld-Tanenbaum Research Institute, Mount Sinai Hospital, University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada.
3
Infertility and IVF Unit, Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Chaim Sheba Medical Center, Tel Hashomer, Ramat Gan, Tel Aviv University, Israel.
4
Tarnesby-Tarnowski Chair for Family Planning and Fertility Regulation, Sackler Faculty of Medicine, Tel-Aviv University, Tel-Aviv, Israel.
5
TRIO Fertility partners, 655 Bay St 11th floor, Toronto, Ontario, M5G 2K4, Canada. [email protected]
6
Infertility and IVF Unit, Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Chaim Sheba Medical Center, Tel Hashomer, Ramat Gan, Tel Aviv University, Israel. [email protected]
Abstract
PURPOSE:
The aim of the present study was to determine the percentage of infertility patients who are diagnosed with a non-receptive endometrium according to the endometrial receptivity array (ERA) test and to examine whether adjusting the embryo transfer day according to the proposed shift in the window of implantation improves the pregnancy rate compared to non-ERA-tested patients.
METHODS:
A single-center retrospective cohort study, including 53 consecutive good prognosis patients (0-2 previous frozen embryo transfers) admitted to our IVF unit for a mock cycle prior to their frozen day-5 embryo (blastocyst) transfer cycle. The mock cycle included an endometrial biopsy for both the ERA test and histological assessment by the Noyes criteria (study group). The next cycle frozen embryo transfer (FET) in the study group was adjusted according to the ERA results. The control group consisted of patients who underwent FET cycles at our clinic during the same period, without performing the endometrial biopsy and ERA testing.
RESULTS:
During the study period, 503 patients (control group) underwent FET cycles without performing the ERA testing and 41 patients had FET following an ERA test. There were no between-group differences in patients' age, number of previous transfers, endometrialthickness, number of transferred embryos, and ongoing pregnancy rates (35.2 vs. 39%, respectively, p = NS). Out of the 53 patients who performed the ERA test before their first or second FET, five endometrial samples (9.4%) were found to be post-receptive, 29 (54.7%) pre-receptive, and only 19 samples (35.8%) were receptive. Women in the study group with pre- or post-receptive endometrium on ERA testing, the appropriate adjustment in timing of FET according to the ERA test resulted in a 33.3% pregnancy rate, which is comparable to the 35.2% background ongoing pregnancy rate of the control group.
CONCLUSIONS:
Performing the ERA test in a mock cycle prior to a FET does not seem to improve the ongoing pregnancy rate in good prognosis patients. Further large prospective studies are needed to elucidate the role of ERA testing in both good prognosis patients and in patients with recurrent implantation failure.

If I wasn't gay, I think I could develop quite a crush on Brosens. He's the first consultant I've seen in about 5 years who talked to me as though I had a functioning brain...


----------



## K jade

its so hard isn't it
I mean I started with doing the following things:
greek hidden infections tests
clotting tests
thyroid panel
and then I went to the implantation clinic in Coventry
non of these yielded any answers for me. but they do for many. maybe you could look into these as none of these tests break the bank

right now im thinking of ERA test then, moving onto double donation as I can only guess that my eggs are not up to it anymore.  

   to you hunny. I know EXACTLY how you are feeling right now
xxx


pognut thank you I will take a look at that
    I have heard other people say the same thing about him !


----------



## apples2014

Hi Molly 
Welcome here although sorry you are here too! 

Kjade just answering your question. When you’ve had 3 or more transfers of good quality embies and no luck many private clinics suggest you do the ERA biopsy. You do a dummy transfer cycle so you take all the meds for a cycle and then on day of transfer they take a biopsy and test for receptivity. 
You can yah receptive. 
Pre receptive so your window isn’t the regular window and is usually fixed with extra progesterone (not me though but I’m unusual case apparently) and post receptive means they’ve missed your receptive window and you need transfer earlier. 
Again like all these tests it’s not a magic cure but it rules out or in issues. I wasn’t really sure but it wasn’t so expensive at the time so I did it. I wasn’t really convinced by the results!!

I had the ERa and had my first chemical after that change to my protocol but then I had a flat BFN again after that so Coventry offered to test for receptivity when was having the nk cells it’s not what they do as standard but he said no one has helped you fix whether the era was correct or not so that’s how it came about! Hope that helps! I didn’t get the sense he was a fan of it either. There is lots of conflicting research and info about ERA it’s enough to drive you bonkers literally!!! But if you having transfers of good embies, immune in check and no luck it’s worth considering. But you probably need to have a consult with a non pushy clinic and take a view from a consultant with a fresh pair of eyes in your case. 


Molly I was once under a crazy priced private London clinic and they were really into checking progesterone levels after transfer (few days after) to aid it all. Turned out with just pessaries mine was too low and needed progesterone injections. They don’t test this as standard on NHS cycle but you could ask. My GP was lovely and gave me the paper work for blood tests. It’s worth considering this so that extra progesterone can be added if needed. It can’t hurt to ask about it. 

Love Apples xx

Hi Pognut. I didn’t see your post when I posted. Will have a read too. Thanks for sharing xx


----------



## Bettyville

Hi ladies,
How are you? How's everyone getting on at the moment?

Betty x


----------



## Hopeful_

Hi Apple, I came across this thread and your story and wanted to ask you few questions. I try to send you a PM but your inbox is full. Congratulations on your pregnancy  .


----------



## Molly87

Thanks for your responses. Had my BFN confirmed today so at least I can officially plan my next steps. Will see what they say at my follow up but something needs to change. It would be such a waste of my last NHS cycle if the implantation issue isn’t resolved. xx


----------



## Northern

Molly so sorry for your bfn    
I hope your clinic can support you in planning some useful next steps before another cycle - would be interesting to see what they recommend.  I agree it reaches a point where it feels like something definitely has to change, repeated failures are horrendous and make it very hard going into more cycles. 
I wish science could solve the implantation mystery and then none of us would be here. 
Look after yourself xxx


----------



## K jade

so sorry molly  
its the worst. 
you've changed donor I take it?
yes get some questions ready for your follow up. write them down.
just be aware that an NHS consultant may just tell you implantation failure is bad luck. and most of the time it probably is. but there are reasons for it too and things we can do about it. the NHS aren't really allowed to talk about why implantation failure may happen as there aren't enough what they call 'large scale clinical trials'. and for some reason they see these large scale clinical trials (of which there are virtually none)as the only means of medical evidence. 
so bear that in mind and do your own research
yes we may not be Drs but we are all intelligent women. be prepared to do your own research and be your own advocate . sending you lots of    

betty are you cycling right now? best of luck. did you change clinic?

northern totally agree . implantation. never thought that word would end up being the absolute bain of my life  
xx


----------



## Bettyville

Hi K Jade
Yep I’m currently cycling - we did move clinics in the end. I’ve take 16mths off from this all as it had a really bad effect on me but we’re back in the game. This time we will add PGS - we too could have implantation issues and egg quality but they don’t know for sure yet.

How r u all doing?


----------



## K jade

Betty good you decided to move clinics , I hope this makes all the difference for you. as you will read I need to do the same

well ladies some of you have already heard my rant but for the benefit of those who haven't here it is again
I found out yesterday that my clinic, who have provided all my tx from day 1 have the lowest success rate in the UK
it currently stands at a laughable *11%!* and that's for UNDER 38's
didn't even look what it was for over 38's as its probably negative figures. 
its not even dealing with complex cases its an NHS clinic so first port of call. 
I feel so upset lost and cheated at all the time they took from me when they didn't stand a hope in hell of ever getting me pregnant
I called HFEA and asked what they are doing about it and will it be sanctioned, spoke to some wet weekend who said um...... umm....... ummm...... yes I can see the birth rate is very low but no cause its follows our code of practice. so that's alright then! never mind that they couldn't even get a rabbit pregnant. 
I started ttc at 26. im now 1 year shy of 35 and still haven't had a chance at success. I should have known all along what with the lost ssr results all those years ago, and them always forgetting things, but I kept giving them the benefit of the doubt.

luckily DH was equally as shocked and as a result we are now both on the same page and he's agreed to go to serum next year , once our car loan is paid off.

on one hand I feel slightly relieved that its not me its them, and with a proper clinic and care I still have a hope in hell of getting pregnant. but my god what they have taken from me , I half wander if we'd gone somewhere else from the start DH and I would even have a full biological child instead of using DS but hey ho
feel totally cheated and let down right now!


----------



## Northern

Gaaarrrggh kjade you know how I feel about the 11% - can't believe they are allowed to keep treating people without any kind of investigation or improvement plan in place.  Honestly if all food outlets have to display a hygiene rating then I don't see why clinics shouldn't display their success rates more clearly.  Instead they're buried on the HFEA website - which has changed since I last looked at it and is now harder to find and compare this kind of information!  They've 'simplified' it, and consequently made it rubbish   
Anyway I'm glad in a roundabout way it's helped you and dh get on the same page and he's agreed to more treatment - I'm excited for you going to Serum and will be really interested to see what they suggest for you.  April will soon come round. 

Betty how are you getting on?  Where are you up to in your cycle?  Hope everything's going well - please keep us posted xxx

Molly how are you doing?  Do you have follow-up booked in? 

As usual I'm very up and down but been struggling this last week.  I was doing really well and back to my normal self in August but then at the weekend I had a minor panic/anxiety attack about the thought of spending this coming weekend away with my now 5-months pregnant friend.  On Monday I found out she is having a boy - and for some strange reason this has really helped me - I think because I a) think boys are underrated and it shatters the girly-perfect 'oh you're having a girl' high pitched ridiculousness (just me??!) and b) because it makes it more of a real being rather than just a nameless, faceless pregnancy where I think 'that should be me'.  I hope that makes sense.  But it's kind of felt like I've just been keeping a lid on it and this anxiety is bubbling away underneath - I didn't talk too much to dp about it as I don't want to put pressure on him with the adoption stuff cos I worry that if we time that wrong it will just make things worse, so don't want to push it forward until it's right - but then last night it all came out in another mild panic, combined with an incident where his eldest son was just being a teenage kn*b. 

Thankfully I am working from home today as the car is at the garage, and haven't got too much to get done, so just going easy on myself.  Feeling better but will be glad when this weekend is out the way.  I'm looking forward to it in many ways as she's my best friend, but I'm dreading anything that makes it too hard or upsets me. 

Trying very hard to cling to hope that one day some of it will happen for us, but it's feeling a long way off at the moment. 

Hope everyone else is doing ok - sorry for the moany depressy post!!!

Carrie, how are you doing with your research??
Bippy, not sure when you're back from hols but hope you've had a lovely time and the sunshine and rest has done you good. 

Xxx


----------



## K jade

Northern said:


> As usual I'm very up and down but been struggling this last week. I was doing really well and back to my normal self in August but then at the weekend I had a minor panic/anxiety attack about the thought of spending this coming weekend away with my now 5-months pregnant friend. On Monday I found out she is having a boy - and for some strange reason this has really helped me - I think because I a) think boys are underrated and it shatters the girly-perfect 'oh you're having a girl' high pitched ridiculousness (just me??!) and b) because it makes it more of a real being rather than just a nameless, faceless pregnancy where I think 'that should be me'. I hope that makes sense. But it's kind of felt like I've just been keeping a lid on it and this anxiety is bubbling away underneath - I didn't talk too much to dp about it as I don't want to put pressure on him with the adoption stuff cos I worry that if we time that wrong it will just make things worse, so don't want to push it forward until it's right - but then last night it all came out in another mild panic, combined with an incident where his eldest son was just being a teenage kn*b.
> Xxx


northern it always eases the blow for me when I found out someone is having a boy. probably for the simple reason I want a girl. I was horrid when I found out my bro and his gf were having a boy. text my best friend all sorts of *****y stuff and had a we good laugh about it but I realise im the one with the problem. 
im with you in that I also don't talk too much to DP about how im feeling, there's only so much you can say isn't it, and in the end you can just drown in it. 
we have a life outside ivf and I think that's what has kept us going all these years. 
sorry your feeling so down. its awful being in limboland. I find the transitions in this journey the hardest. they can really send you spiralling. I hope there's some movement for you soon. im sure there will be . just so hard having to be patient isn't it. lets hope SD is able to talk to you soon. like I said she's going to have to get used to the idea of you and DP having your own family one way or another.

oh don't get me started on HFEA. I wont have too much of a rant on here about them as ill probs get in trouble. but lets just say I will never cycle in the UK now and I cant completely see why everyone goes abroad.


----------



## Northern

Thanks kjade, nice to have people here who understand, it's the limbo that does it. I wish I could be ok about it but it's all gone on for so long that it's bound to have some kind of effect; it's a sign that we still want it all and that it's worth fighting for - it's just hard to find the energy for it sometimes.  Nowt I can do about it really as the only thing that will solve it all is having that elusive tiny human crawling all over me!  So we just muddle along as best we can.  Like you say there is life outside ivf and I am cracking on with that as best I can ...already turning my head to crafting as many Christmas presents as I can haha. 

Your experience has made me feel better about going abroad - it was always cost related for us but I've often wondered if we'd have been better off spending the extra money and just cycling over here and saving the stress of travel - but actually it wouldn't have worked out any easier I don't think - we'd still have to travel 2-3 hours plus for each appointment or scan as we have no clinics here, and the success rates are no better.  There are so many 'what ifs' - try not to beat yourself up over them, you've got a good plan now and hopefully Serum can sort you out!  They have such a good reputation and not just for 'straightforward' cases - I have every faith they can get you pregnant.


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## K jade

Oh definitely.  I agree with u . Completely. 
The only thing that will cure the sadness for me is  a baby. Sadly. So I fight on. It's very tough

OK well i'm receiving phone calls from parents who want to tell me about their new grandchild And sadly I don't want to hear about it

So I'm ignoring their calls 

Yes I know I said I'm not going to be bitter but saying it is very different from actually doing it 
How can I be happy for someone when they get pregnant in 4 months and ive taken best part of a decade. And WHY should I be happy for them.  
I know it's a nephew for me but it's hardly a consultation prize for my own child is it? Plus I already have nephews neices 
Been an aunty since I was 17
The novelty has kind of warn off . I just wanna keep going till I get my baby and all these people having easy natural pregnancies in the meantime is just irritating and takes away my positivity. When I get my baby I'll be nice to everyone I promise  
I know these are harsh words but I gotta get 'em out to people who don't judge . I realise I have issues but right now I'm not inclined to do anything to change them 

Northern I know your set on UK clinic as u want non anonn donor. U looked at Nurture ?. they are up north. Not sure how far from u. (Everywhere is up north to me LOL)
Very very good success rates . One of the best xx


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## bippy11

Hi everyone!!! Back from holiday last night! We had such a fab time, so much fun and didn't think or talk too much about treatment etc, which was lovely actually. We did lots of exercise - swimming, running, walking, diving, kayaking, yoga, beach bat and ball(!) combined with lots of eating - pizza, pasta, gelato, seafood. And also plenty of relaxing beach time and reading. Just what we needed   

And I felt really happy this morning, nice being back home etc, until I received a call from my sister to tell me she's pregnant. She had her 12 wk scan last week, so same timings as we would have been if this latest pregnancy hadn't miscarried. Really really knocked me and brought me right back to earth. Feel so gutted like all the good of the holiday has been knocked out of me. How can it all crumble so quickly? And the thing that makes it really difficult is that she has been pretty horrible all the years that we have been going through treatment, and although she has had her own issues, she hasn't wanted to see or talk to me at all and has more or less cut me off and that has really hurt. So we had a bit of an argument about that on the phone and that just made me feel even more awful.   

So kjade you are not the only one struggling with siblings being pregnant hun. We can have a moan together without judgement   And Northern too - my bf is also pregnant - I think I remember at the time when she told me, yours also told you, so I think they are around same stage, mine is due end of Nov. My bf is much much nicer than my sister though and has been so supportive for me and so we have a good relationship, but it is still difficult seeing a bump and I can completely understand you worrying about this weekend and I hope that it is going ok and you are able to enjoy some of it 

Molly Im really sorry you had another BFN. Really sucks. Sending you big hugs       

Pognut, I agreed about Prof B, he is one of the few docs we have come across who talks to us as if we are intelligent people who might have done a bit of research about what we are experiencing and might understand some of all this. In fact I think next time I see / speak to him I am going to tell him how much I appreciate that!

Hi everyone else, sorry for lack of personals, got lots of various things to do before returning to work on Monday (incl 5 big loads of post-holiday washing!), but have had a quick read back of the pages I have missed while being away and sending everyone lots of love xxx


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## K jade

Oh bippy that is one big kick in the teeth   

I remember u talking about her
I'm not surprised u had a blow out on the phone with her.
U poor thing
(((((Hugs))))))) coming your way
Lots of them 
Xxxx


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## bippy11

Thanks kjade, I appreciate the hugs xxx It's made me feel so rubbish   The relationship with my sister - and my mum - is so bad and it just makes all this so much harder. I wish we could have a nice relationship, but then I guess a lot of people have issues with families and maybe I just need to stop wishing for it so much and try to focus on the good relationships that I do have in my life instead. 
Do your parents know about your situation? 
Im sorry to hear about your hospital's poor success rates hun, that is such a blow. It's a good thing that you are moving on to private and that dp is on the same page going forward, but I know that won't stop you looking back and questioning all the things that have gone wrong with your hospital. AAArgh!  
Anyway I have to get off the screen, went back to work today and my head is completely frazzled from staring at a screen all day!   
Hello to everyone xxx


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## K jade

oh that makes it doubly hard if your relationship with your mum is also difficult
don't be afraid to give yourself some space. as much as you need. 

I do think we sometimes put huge amounts of pressure on ourselves to be happy for other peoples pregnancies. for me it helps to let go of how I SHOULD be feeling and go with how I AM feeling. 
its quite unrealistic to jump for joy when others achieve this so easily. it involves a level of empathy that is completely impossible to achieve in my opinion. 

if your best friend told you she was having an affair with your husband and it was going great and your husband was going to leave you for her, you wouldn't say 
'ok I'm gutted my marriage has fallen apart and my best friend and husband have betrayed me in worst possible way BUT I'm  really happy for my best friend because  she's met someone!!' would you?
I know its not  the same thing and of course people do not continue to get pregnant to hurt us, i'm fully aware of that,  but  I do think its an example of how much pressure we put ourselves under which we don't need on top of everything else. 

all im saying is put yourself 1st. self care self care self care all the way hun 
xxx


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## Northern

Oh no Bippy I'm sorry, what a hard thing for you to deal with.  And just when you'd had a real break and a bit of space. 
Why is it that even when we manage to feel ok within ourselves and our own situation, the world manages to track us down with some news of its own to bring us back down again?  Why can't we just be left alone! 
Sending you massive hugs, kjade is right - it's all about self care and looking after yourself     (and I love that analogy kjade! 'being happy for them' just over-simplifies it when actually it's such a complicated situation...)
xxx


----------



## bippy11

Hi ladies, how are you? Seems a bit quiet on here, maybe everyone's busy. 
I had a busy first week back to work. On Wednesday we went to the launch event for Scream4IVF, FNUKs campaign for fair access to NHS treatment for all - please sign the petition if you haven't already. 
Last night we went round for dinner to our friends who have a new house and are pregnant - she had a big bump. It was pretty difficult, although they are lovely and were so good about it as they know what we are going through. But it makes me sad that they can't really share their excitement about it with us and talk about it and that we can't be part of this - with so many of our friends. It's like there's this big gap between us. I was all happy and shiny on the outside, but had a cry when we got home and just felt really low. 

Thanks kjade and Northern for your support re my sister, it's really hard to deal with. Yes Northern you hit the nail on the head - when we finally get ourselves in an ok place, i was feeling the best I had in such a long time, why can't we just be left alone to roll with that instead of being brought down by new pregnancy news and family issues.. 
How did your weekend with your pregnant bf go? I hope it was ok for you, but Im sure it must have made you feel low as well. We are going to a wedding in Italy next weekend with only a few people we know incl my pregnant bf, so will be spending most of our time with her. Hopefully I can get a pizza and gelato top up to make things better!  
kjade how are you hun? When do you think you will start with your new private clinic - have you contacted them yet? 

Treatment is getting going for us - In the last week in Sardinia I took Norethisterone to bring on a bleed because if we waited for my period to appear by itself we could be waiting forever. Withdrawal bleed (v little) came on Monday, so we started Meriofert injections and Letrozole pills on Tuesday to start building the lining. On Monday we are going to Coventry where I will have a scratch done. This is the suggestion of Prof Brosens, as he has emphasised many times, it is very experimental, but no one else has been able to suggest anything else we can try. So we will see - I doubt my lining will recover to be able to do a transfer in the same cycle as a biopsy, considering how I responded to the biopsies earlier in the year. On Tuesday we have appointment a RMC to get results from July's MC. On Wednesday we then have a scan with our Dr and after that we are running our support group. Phew - a few of full-on fertility days! 

Would love to hear how some of you are getting on xxx


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## K jade

Bippy keep us posted regarding your results tomorrow.  

Have u spoken anymore to your sister?  I'm guessing not 
Well my brother and gf had their baby. ..Thursday is beleive.  
Que meltdown from me in a big way  . 
Despite lots of words with myself about growing a thicker skin I'm just not there yet .

No new cycle planned yet. But working on it . Just trying to work out how to finance it especially cause I feel ill need more than 1 cycle given my history.  All local clinics to me are off my list. I need big guns.  So it'll either be London or abroad.


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## Pognut

We're just about to switch back to a local clinic after 2 failed FETs at ARGC! Can't take the cost, the intensive treatment (which I am not sure if actually necessary or helpful, looking at their success per embryo stats) or being away from home for weeks. Our local clinic has comparable success rates per embryo transferred as ARGC (not as high but only about 2% less). Wish the HFEA website had had the stats for success per cycle *and* success per embryo transferred when we decided to leave the local one and go to the best clinic we could find, as it turned out that the best clinic wasn't as fantastic as it looked... (I do hear really good things about Lister and CRGH, having said that.)

We've just had our third failed transfer of fantastic quality donor embryos (all 5AB/5BAs). This one went perfectly - lining was 8.3, hormone levels were perfect, the embryo thawed with 100% of its cells intact and the transfer was the easiest and quickest one I've ever had. And then my HCG was less than 1, so it can't even have started implanting. I don't know - what the hell? I didn't *expect* it to work, exactly, but I never thought that we'd still be no further on after three transfers. Daft of me, probably. I've had a laparoscopy, had my tubes cauterised (mild hydros), had 3 hysteroscopies, done the dairy and gf diet, all the supplements, tried the ARGC immunes protocol and the Coventry biopsies and protocol, and done the hidden infection tests. I'm so *tired* of it, and tired of being stuck in limbo behind the starting line while everyone I know gets on with their lives while we just watch, or so it feels sometimes. 

Sorry for the ranty and self-centred post... Thought you guys would understand.


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## K jade

Ah pognut I'm so so sorry   
I had been wandering how u were getting on. I know what u mean about hfea suddenly showing the 'per embryo transfered' rates. That seems to be a recent  thing.  It turned up a few surprises for me too regarding my clinic ! And let's just say I'm pleased to be parting company with them. 
Can I ask who your local clinic are? U are in Wales like me I understand 
It's awful isn't it when an embryo just does nothing.  Despite all conditions being perfect. 
Sadly for some of us it seems to be a numbers game. Sometimes , for reasons unbeknown changing clinics can make all the difference.  It gives a fresh perspective and fresh pair of eyes on the situation 
Xxx


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## apples2014

Little hi from me. 

Kjade big cuddle family and close friends babies is tough. You are a lovely girl and there is nothing wrong with feeling upset about it. You are not bitter or unkind. Be nice to yourself. It’s hard xxxx

Bippy that’s great about treatment. Keep us posted with results xxx
I’m sorry you came back to the thump after your lovely holiday xx

Northern always a big bear hug for you. Xxx

Pognut I’m so sorry and gutted for you. 
I had London NHS and London CRGH (spent scary money eeeek! So much empathy for you. I was gonna go with ARGC but the girl I spoke to on the phone when booking consults was so up her own !!! And rude to me I went with CRGH who were lovely but omg £££) I know going abroad isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but we went go Serum in Athens and then moved onto Gennet in Prague and both of these clinics were spotless, high tech, uber professional, high success rates, you are not sausage meat going into a machine and you are listened to so I know right know you just need to take some time and lick your wounds as it’s so painful. 
But I really can’t recommend these clinics enough. Repeat implantation failure is so depressing and you have all my empathy. 

Gotta go but wanted to send you all my love. Xxx

Apples 💕💕💕💕


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## bippy11

oh kjade, it's so hard. Do they live nearby? Will you have to go and meet the baby soon? I find it's somehow harder with family, I'm always trying to grow a thicker skin and not care so much, but somehow they find a way through. I haven't spoken to my sister again, doubt I will for a long time as she tends to not want to speak to me or see me. After trying to salvage our relationship for years, I'm now done with it really so she can have it her way! It would just be too hard trying to repair things now with her being pregnant. 
Re how to finance your next round - have you seen IVF Babble are doing some draws for free rounds? It's a long shot, but may as well sign up for it? 

Pognut, I am so sorry hun. Lots of hugs to you       It's good that you have a plan and hopefully being at a local clinic will make it all a bit easier. I agree, I don't actually think ARGC's overload approach is helpful or necessary, to me they sound like a horrible place from all I've heard about them. 

Apples it's lovely to hear from you and I was so glad to read your recent update   xx

I had the biopsy in Coventry yesterday, ouchy, so we will see if my lining recovers to be able to transfer in this cycle. I know it's unlikely, but hoping! We'll continue injections and see how things look at scan tomorrow. 
We found out this morning at the RMC that our little one from July was a girl. Somehow knowing the gender makes it more real and although it feels sad, I like knowing more about them because to us they were real.


----------



## Northern

Aw Bippy   must be so bittersweet finding that out. Completely understand it being a good thing to know though - she was real and had an existence, so it's nice you know a bit more about her. It'll help you acknowledge and remember her. 
I'm sorry about your sister - such a shame it's so difficult. Maintaining relationships is really hard through any of this, but sometimes it's made even harder. Let her get on with it and focus on looking after yourself xxx

Pognut, I'm so sorry. This -


> I didn't *expect* it to work, exactly, but I never thought that we'd still be no further on after three transfers


 - and _this_


> tired of being stuck in limbo behind the starting line while everyone I know gets on with their lives while we just watch


 really resonated with me. Good luck figuring out whatever you do next, take your time with it and do your research, ask lots of questions and then go with your gut instinct.

I'm a little better today but honestly really been struggling recently. Had another little breakdown/panic attack on Friday night and it really wiped me out, then just not been able to focus At All on pretty much anything, just drifting around in a little haze. Quiet few weeks at work probably isn't helping if I'm honest, but I don't have the mind-power to be any busier so it's a good job it is quiet I guess. Just sick of being in limbo. I feel like we're back at the start but this time with no money and no options, we're gradually ruling ourselves out of all of them and I'm panicking that I don't know what to do for the best. 
Bit better today and getting some work done but really just dragging myself along at the moment, just want to crawl under a rock and stay there. 
We have a few days away in Scotland next week which I'm really looking forward to - just ready for a break just me and dp.

Limboland and failure SUCKS and I'm just feeling pretty sorry for all of us at the minute! 
Xxx


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## K jade

Apples so lovely to hear from u . I'm taking it all is going well? Not long till meet baby boy. U must be starting to feel it's real now

Bippy what exactly _is_ your sisters problem? U have worked so hard at your relationship. 
And that's despite of your struggles. This woman sounds like a bottomless pit of need. A big part of u must feel this is very unfair. And undeserved. 
You are right to be done with it. 
I think I would have been done with it a long time ago.

As for brother no expectations on me to visit no. They live about 40mins drive. They have been understanging particularly brother. So maybe I should try. 
But I DID send a card. Pleased with myself for that. 
I'm hoping the future has some bigger plans in store for me . Although with another birthday approaching and still no charge in my situation I'm wandering how much longer I can keep saYing that .

(((((((Northern ))))))) 
I know we have spoken on pm.

Love to all. More bfps on here soon plz xx


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## Molly87

Hi all,

So I’ve finally had my follow up. They took blood tests for thyroid and sticky blood. We’ve decided to go to Coventry for nk cell testing. I’m due to ovulate soon so hopefully can go in the next 10 days. It’s so horrible when people just can’t give an answer about why it isn’t working 

Had a truly awful week. I’m a childcare solicitor working for the local authority and we had a shaken baby case. His life support had to be turned off Thursday and he died Friday morning. His dad has been charged with his murder. I’ve never been so affected by work. It’s a hard enough job as it is but being in a position where you can’t have children and other people just don’t deserve them is so hard! xx


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## Northern

Oh gosh Molly, that's horrific.  Can't imagine having to see the details of a case like that.  Hard when you're in a position like ours of desperately wanting a child, to witness something like that - but must be hard for everyone involved I guess.  Hope you and your team are doing ok. 
Hope you can get your tests sorted soon and get moving with your next plans. Hopefully they will show something up which can be easily addressed and will make the difference! 

Just to let you know ladies I frazzled my phone at the weekend with a dodgy charger so won't be picking up any [email protected] messages for a while!  

xxx


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## bippy11

oh Molly that is so horrible and sad. It's so upsetting to hear about so I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you if you have been right in the middle of it. Is there a support system at your work for when you have to deal with such horrible cases? I am not surprised that is affecting you hun xx

Ive had uNKcell testing at Coventry earlier this year. It's quite painful having the biopsy taken, so I would advise you to take a pain killer about half hour before your appointment and then ask them for gas and air. They are really lovely there though. Have you had miscarriages or failed implantation? (Sorry I'm not sure of your history as couldn't see it in your signature). I have had miscarriages and from my biopsies they found that I have persistently low uNKcells, which is not good - of those that have it, majority are miscarriage patients. There is no known solution at the moment to increase the uNKcells, but they are testing a theory where they take a proliferative biopsy (taken day 7 - 10 after period) to stress the cells and hopefully spur them in to action and I just had this done last Monday. I didn't think I would be able to transfer as my lining responded poorly in the cycle after the uNKcell biopsy, but scan today showed lining coming along well, so fingers crossed we will be able to transfer! 

We are at a loss as to why we keep miscarrying and no one except Coventry have been able to offer any suggestions (not even RMC) so we are trying their suggestion even though it is very experimental - they told us last week we are only around the 10th patient having this done as part of their study. If you get to see Professor Brosens there he is very good. 

Northern Im so sorry to hear you've been struggling, it's so hard all this. What is happening with your adoption process? Maybe Ive missed some of it as Im not on [email protected] Is it your SD holding up the process? 
It'll be so good for you and dp to get away for a few days just the two of you. 
I know what you mean about just dragging yourself along, Ive had months when Ive felt like that. Just getting by but not really enjoying anything. I think a little break will do you good hun xx  

kjade well done for sending a card! See how you feel re visiting, one day you might feel like it, but if there are no expectations then you don't need to push yourself or put that pressure on right now if you don't feel up to it. xx
Did you have a look at the competition for the free treatment on IVFbabble? 

I've had enough of seeing pregnant people and parents with young kids for a bit now. We went to a wedding in Italy this weekend and in some ways it was amazing, but it was also really hard because there were sooooo many parents, babies and toddlers there and a few pregnant women thrown in for good measure. Incl my 7 month pregnant bf. My friend who got married had put me in touch with one of her other friends to share a taxi from the airport. She was lovely but unfortunately spent most of the journey talking about her two little ones, how it is difficult taking them on holiday and how it is so hard because you have to chose between seeing your kids and your career. I tried my best to change the subject, but somehow it kept coming back to her kids. I was nice and smiley and didn't tell her that after nearly 5 years of treatment if I am ever lucky enough to have kids, I will definitely chose spending time with them and that unfortunately I've had to chose between IVF and my career because it's a bit tricky to climb the old ladder when you constantly have to go to appointments or deal with depression from failed cycles and miscarriages. No I just smiled nicely and prayed she wouldn't ask if we have kids. She didn't, but towards the end of the journey she did ask how long we had been married, so it was slightly awkward when I told her nearly 6 years.. But the wedding party was quite fun, I just didn't bother making conversations with people and just hung out with the few people I knew there. Dh and I had to get up in the middle of speeches to go off to the loo to do injection - the disabled toilet was locked so I had to ask this toilet attendant to open it for me - god knows what he thought when me and my husband then went in, but I couldn't explain in italian!  

Im chuffed after our scan today as I was so certain that it would be bad news and we would have to cancel the cycle. Honestly poor dh, I didn't say anything the whole journey there and my face was like thunder. But there's still hope we might get to transfer so Ill cling on to that for now!


----------



## K jade

Oh my god well no sooner do I tell myself to reign it in and grow a thicker skin do I get a phone call from my dad wanting to wish me happy birthday but really wanting to just  repeat all the news that he told me last week and seems to have completely forgotten about. (his memory is starting to wane now with old age). they are going away in the camper van soon, my sister and her children have moved in with them, mums hip op,  then of course the new baby. 
'Oh it was a difficult birth as 'name' is small and baby was medium size'. First of all your a 72 year old man and talking that way about your daughter in law is Inappropriate and weird and secondly its my birthday so could you please cut me some slack and give me a break from hearing about this. yes I did bite back and respond with some things which clearly indicate I have a serious problem although dad clearly has no idea that I'm infertile so to my absolute surprise mum has kept that  to herself  . Oh and brothers finding it all a shock to the system being a dad and that. Dunno why that just made me really angry. cause I wouldn't find it a shock to the system. I've had enough shocks in my life and being  lucky enough to have a baby to look after probably wouldn't rate very highly on the spectrum of things. 
Also  I never received a response from the card I sent , which was surprising as it took a lot for me to send that . But I guess when you have a baby nothing else matters least of all barren sister and her issues. 
anyway... that's that  off my chest
so its another year older for me and absolutely NONE the wiser as you can see! plans are loosely in place for more treatment but finances are not quite there yet. 

Bippy thanks for that suggestion I'm going to look into those comps. sorry the wedding was tough. I hope you still enjoyed the time away nethertheless. Great news on the lining. lets hope its you rambling away about the trials of having a toddler very soon. you have been so close before. 

Molly I'm so sorry that's awful. and talk about bad timing too regarding everything going on with you. make sure you look after yourself in all this. lets hope there is at least some justice in all this and the man goes away for life. I read you are doing some more tests?  and perhaps attending Coventry?

kjxx


----------



## bippy11

kjade happy birthday hun!!!      although how annoying you had to deal with your dad going on about the new baby   I guess if he doesn't know about your problems he can't be blamed too much, but it's still rubbish for you. 
Have you got anything nice planned? I know birthdays suck these days because all they do is remind us that we are one year older and still childless, so perhaps it is even more important to do something nice for yourself. Sending you some big birthday hugs xxx  

I'm worried I might have ovulated, sorry tmi but got a big bit of 'slime' in my pants today. We started cetrotide last night, but perhaps that was too late and the process had already started. Really really hope not, but we just have to wait until the scan tomorrow.


----------



## Molly87

Hi all,

Thanks for the support. I’m sorry I’d had a few wines when I let my big rant out and then felt awful the next day because you don’t all need to hear that! I just guess it affected me more than I realised. It’s a bloody hard job at the best of times never mind when you are going through this! 

Bippy - it’s failed implantation I have. I’m hoping something comes of all this because st least I’d have a reason rather than another load of bad luck. 

Me and my husband have been so good considering everything with his NOA but now I’m blaming myself and I’m going into meltdown and pushing him away. We are the worst we have been. It’s so sad 😞 does it get easier? xx


----------



## K jade

Molly id love to say it  gets easier. sadly it doesn't . but you do get stronger if that helps? so in that respect perhaps it just gets easier to cope with 
(((((hugs))))))))
ive  noticed via other areas of FF  that 2 ladies who used to post on this thread have recently got BFPs after numerous failed attempts which is highly encouraging and hopefully means  we will all get there in time .  in the meantime you have this place to rant and let off steam 

bippy any scan update?

my birthday wasn't too bad in the end. DH took me out for dinner and we had a lovely time then BF came over last night with a present. all in all not tooo depressing being another year older xx


----------



## bippy11

Aw kjade glad you had a lovely birthday and well done for not having a melt down - it's easily done on birthdays for us ladies! Proud of you   xx

Who had the bfps?? Would love to hear some good news from some of the 'old gang' - it's gone a bit quiet on here, I miss some of them! I find it encouraging too, there is always the 'I wish it could be me' feeling, but when we know what they have gone through it makes me genuinely so happy for them and really does show that it is possible and not to give up hope. 

Scan yesterday showed trilaminar lining at 8.7mm so we triggered last night and transfer scheduled for next Wednesday. So chuffed, I really didn't expect we would be able to go ahead this cycle! Just seems such a long road ahead, but we have to go down it again to get to where we want! One step at a time. 

Molly a wine-induced rant is always good   Im sorry to hear things are not good with you and DH. Please don't blame yourself, neither you or your DH are to blame for this, it is just a rubbish situation but it is not your fault. Can you take out some time just the two of you, do something fun or go for a nice dinner or something? That might help and it's important to still make time for you as a couple, not always just the fertility issues. People cope with this in different ways and at different speeds, so if you can both support each other and allow for the other one feeling / reacting differently, then that can really help - I think communication and kindness is key. Try to explain to him how you are feeling and what you need from him instead of pushing him away and hopefully he will respond to that.    xx I hope coventry will be able to help, remember you can ask for gas and air! 

Had a colleague return to work today after a few years off when she went to have her baby and now back part-time. Just highlights how our life just stands still and while she's gone and done all that, I've been stuck doing the same old job and got a few more failed rounds of IVF under my belt!


----------



## K jade

wow bippy amazing measurement! lovely lovely lovely    Exactly. One step at a time you will get to your destination. 

Im off to a wedding tomorrow as it happens. my BFs sister has had a whirlwind with an Italian man and they are marrying tomorrow despite only knowing each other 11 months! Don't fancy their chances if im honest but hey it'll be a nice day I'm sure nethertheless. 
xx


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## bippy11

Thank you kjade xx  

Haha your post about the wedding made me chuckle   Hope you enjoy it, they are fun despite the inevitable parent and baby / toddler parade that comes with it these days. Hope they have better weather that we have here in London today! 

Who got the positives hun? Would love to hear some happy news from the old posters. 

Northern how are you doing hun? Hope you are ok   how was your Scottish break? Would love to hear more about your adoption process hun, what is holding things up? xx

Hope everyone else is having a good weekend xx


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## Northern

I've been meaning to post for days but not been online very much and only just got my phone sorted too! 
Bippy - that's amazing news about your lining, hooray!  One hurdle out the way at a time, try and channel some of that positivity and hopefully it'll all go well on Wednesday - v promising start, really hoping this is the one for you xxx
Thanks for asking, we're doing ok and Scotland last week did me the world of good, even though we only had 2 nights away (and it was in the middle of the big storm haha, just my luck)    It felt a proper little adventure and really cleared my head, I feel a lot better than I did a few weeks ago, more like myself so that's good.  We're still on hold with adoption, but dp has spoken to his daughter again, she still doesn't agree with it but I think she's more settled about the idea and that we still want to go ahead anyway.  She's fully back to normal with him now anyway, so that's about as good as we can hope for.  We're planning to ring LA again in the next few weeks to see if we can get started again and go from there.  And I've decided that if that meets a dead end I will try and get down to London for the Fertility Show in early November, to help me think about other options.  Always good to have a backup plan! 

Kjade well done for getting the wedding out the way, a bad wedding can be torturous! haha, sorry for the very belated happy birthday too, glad you had a nice dinner out and got a bit spoilt, you deserve it xx

Yep I've seen a few positives on other boards from the old gang - Aley got a bfp I think - think it was from home insemination in the end but I could be wrong?  And I think FertilityHawk too, who's struggled for a long time.  Lovely news to see people get positives after so long - there must be hope for us all! 

Molly hope you're doing ok, sorry it's hard at the moment with dh.  From my experience there are lots of ups and downs - you process things at different rates and aren't always in the same place in when and how you deal with it all.  Sometimes when I'm down about it, dp is completely oblivious and can't understand why I'm up one day and down the next, it doesn't make things easy for either of us.  But it's not always like that, it does get better.  Focus on looking after yourself however you can, self-care goes a long way and is SO important in all this. 

Xxx


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## Northern

Bippy, lots of luck for your transfer today, hope it goes well, am thinking of you - let us know how you get on xxx

More pregnancy news for me this morning, oh joy.  It's one of the girls at work who I'm quite close to -
fortunately my lovely colleague sought me out to pre-warn me and give me a big hug, so I'm prepared before she tells me herself.  I trust and like this girl so I may come clean about our struggles, just to make the next few months easier and escape some of the pretending.  Am ok, enough on my plate that this is just another one to add to the mix without flooring me; it's a well-rehearsed routine now.  She's been with this guy for just under a year and this is planned, she's 14 weeks - amazes me just how easy some people have it!! 

Xxx


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## bippy11

Hey lovelies, 

So, I am pupo once more   Here we go again! Thanks so much Northern. The transfer was fine, but I am a bit worried because my lining was thinner than it was on the scan a week ago and the two past transfers it's been thicker on transfer day. Dr didn't seem worried, but then I think he just tries to make me not worry because there's not much we can do about it anyway. But Im concerned that it's not good if my lining is on the way out already, that's no good for our little embie.  

Northern Im so glad you had a nice time away, even a couple of days can really make a difference. And I'm glad you're going to be pushing forward with the LA and adoption. As I understand it was put on hold because dp's daughter was not happy about it? Such a shame hun, but you can't let her opinion stop your chance of having a child. I really hope she comes round, but even if not, I hope you still press ahead. When she is older she would probably feel awful if she had stopped you from adopting. 
If you make it to fertility show, then I might see you! I am considering going on the fnuk stall as a support group volunteer representative. It would be lovely to see you again! 
So sorry to hear about the work pregnancy news, it's good your friend warned you. I think it would be a good idea to tell her, hopefully she will then be a bit more sensitive and like you say, you don't have to do the pretending thing. Pregnant people at work sucks because you have to watch them everyday!   I have recently told a couple more people at work and it's been fine. For years only my manager has known. 

Oh hooray from Aley and FertilityHawk     that's really wonderful news and something to give us hope that happy endings are possible even after so long. 

Kjade, how are you? How was the wedding? I'm sure you will have a funny story or two for us   xx


----------



## Northern

Ah Bippy congrats on successful transfer, so glad it went well! If it helps at all I think your lining compacts at this point in your cycle so it’s not necessarily meant to be as thick as it is earlier on - it sort of beds down a bit ready for an embryo to bed in, before in a normal cycle then breaking down during your period. I’m sure that’s how it was explained to me once. So I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing if it’s a little thinner.  Fingers, toes and everything crossed! When is otd? Are you an early tester? 
I will def let you know if I come down for Fertility Fest - there’s also a chance I may be staying with my parents that weekend too so would have to try and fit it all in, would prob be the Sunday in that case, but I want to make sure I’ve got a backup plan to help me move forward if I struggle again in the next few weeks. We’ve decided to ring the adoption lady again soon and try to restart things - dp has spoken again to daughter and while she’s still against it she’s more accepting of the fact that he wants to do it anyway and is behaving normally (for her at least!) with him.  We’re going to get the next few days out the way first - he’s got a scan on Sat for a mild health concern so we just want to make sure we’re only dealing with one potential battle at a time! 

I’ve just drafted an email to my colleague re the pregnancy - I think I will send it. I’m out the office today on my way to Birmingham so think it’s a good chance for her to digest the news before I have to see her (I hid from her yesterday)  I thought of finding her to talk face to face but it felt too hard - I’d rather fill her in on the back-story first then go for a coffee or something and be able to talk without having to start with the bombshell. I’ll prob read through it another 20 times and then see how I feel...! 
Xxx


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## K jade

Bippy congrats!!
I think lining can compact once you take progesterone, so not unusual for it to measure thinner when you actually come to transfer. 

Northern sorry about your colleague. I think emailing her is a good idea. especially as you are out of the office today. 
I spoke to my friend who was 10 years in child protection and she couldn't even understand why social services would take much notice of your SD. I then explained that she was almost an adult who did not live with you and she said quite frankly in her local authority the social worker probably wouldn't even bother interviewing her let alone allow her to completely steer the process. 
so.. on that note don't be afraid to look at another agency if this one continues to be pedantic about it

the wedding was a lot of fun to be honest. lets see how the marriage turns out though!

I have my review next week at my clinic. I cannot decide whether to attend or not. on one  note I would be useful to get the exact info on my embryo gradings and lining thickness so I am armed with that for my next clinic. 
on the other im scared for getting some grave news ie the adoption , surrogacy or DE speech . im not ready for that yet so I may just give it a miss.


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## bippy11

Hey, thanks both re the lining, that's reassured me and is also along the lines of what my doc said, so I will try to not let that get me down. ETA is Monday 8th Oct. I won't test early as we did a trigger last night, so want to make sure it's out of my system. I never test early anyway. 

Northern did you send the email? I really hope she is understanding and kind about it and will be sensitive about the situation. 
I hope everything was fine with the scan for your DH today? You don't need anything extra to worry about! xx
Lets just see how things go re fertility show - it would be lovely to see you, but I am not for certain going either - will have to see how things pan out. If I've just had another failed round or mc I might not be up to it. 

kjade I think you should go to your review. I know it might be difficult, but it's the last thing you're getting from the NHS and I think it'd be worth hearing what the have to say. Also if there are any tests you've had or anything that would be useful to have a print out of to take to your next clinic, that would be useful to get. You could just tell them that you don't want to discuss anything around adoption, surrogacy, DE, but that you just want anything that would be useful for you to have for further treatment. xx


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## K jade

I think I'm gonna duck out bippy  
I've been thinking about it and I feel it's gonna be a depressing hour of grave words and hard truths .
She'll just say I've never had implantation so something must be fundamentally completely wrong with me.and it probably is but who am I to listen !

Moving forwards I'm going to book consultation at Lister. Let's see if the top dogs can fix me. They've certainly got their work cut out !  
Congrats on being pupo xx


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## Aley

Hi there!

I haven’t been on this thread for a long time but I have been following it. 
Today I think I decided to post after seeing kjade post and say that despite having no implantation following 4 ivf transfers I managed to get pregnant naturally. 
This made me seriously question the whole ivf process and the clinic I’ve been with. I honestly can’t understand how that was possible after I tried almost everything with ivf, including steroids, intralipids, scratches, you name it. I know I don’t have a baby in my arms yet but for now I am pregnant and with ivf I didn’t even have a chemical pregnancy!
I too thought something must be terrible wrong with me and questioned my own fertility. Also to top up our sperm donor is far away from the ideal donor profile. 
So kjade, before you say something is terrible wrong with you... go have treatment somewhere else, especially with the terrible stats your clinic has. It might be that nothing is wrong with you at all and I truly believe when I say this. 
I was too made to believe I have high nk cells but got pregnant without any steroids or add ons. I did have acupuncture and took some Chinese supplements but that was it, nothing else....and did that for like less than a month anyway. 
I know it’s easy to talk when you’re in the ‘other side’ but my heart still goes for the people that struggle with negatives as I know how hard that is and what a scary territory that is. 
I really hope all of you will get your happy ending regardless of how that comes.


----------



## Molly87

Hi all,

Thanks so much for all the support. I’m in a much better place now and feel almost like me again (or at least more than I have been for the past month!). 

Had my nk cell testing Friday - not pleasant but another thing off the list. I’ve got to go back for another biopsy next cycle so a slight delay on starting our next fresh cycle. Can’t see it being before Christmas now. I’m feeling more positive in general though - definitely don’t feel like it will never happen just yet. xx


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## bippy11

Aley congratulations!!! So wonderful to hear your happy news   here's some dancing bananas for you hun       Really hoping you will have a smooth pregnancy, how far along are you? Hope you are ok, pregnancy can be a nerve-wrecking time when you've gone through treatment xxx

Molly glad you're feeling better and have the first of the uNKcells biopsies out of the way. I did two biopsies earlier this year so I know it's frustrating to have the extra delay from it, but hopefully you'll find something out from it. 

kjade fair enough, it's not something to do if it's gonna really get you down. Are you planning to go to Lister in the new year or are you able to start with them sooner? xx

Im struggling with the 2ww (surprise surprise). I don't think it's worked   Im sure I had quite a bit of cramping at this stage the last two times (when the embryos did implant), whereas there's nothing this time.    Really sucks, I just want this to happen so much!!!! And today I came in to work to find a pregnancy announcement in my inbox (a male colleague so luckily I don't have a bump to watch), but there was talk about how time off for ante-natal appointments and paternity leave works - I just walked out and sat in the meeting room for a while until they'd finished! And my colleague sitting opposite me has just had a grandaughter so everyone is congratulating her and coo-ing over photos etc. Just what I need on a Monday morning during 2ww!!   

Northern did your pregnant colleague respond to your email? xx


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## K jade

Aley I was so happy to read your news .  Pleeaaaseee keep us posted . Thank u. A change of clinics is on the cards for me. Although sounds like going back to basics like u did may be something I need to explore 

Bippy seriously! ? That really winds me up  . Why the hell could he not have disussed this privately with HR. And a man too?? Hes not even the pregnant one. I do get irritated by anyone who talks about pregnancy in that hysterical excited way. Why can't people just be matter of fact ? Even better not talk about it at all .  We can all dream . Sounds dire. Glad u were able to remove yourself from the situation.  Albeit temporarily. 
Going to lister all depends on being accepted by access fertility. There's a fair chance I won't be. Then it's back to the drawing board  . I'll book appointment with them soon but if I am accepted then it won't be till new year 

Molly glad your feeling better. I too have started to feel back to my old self after my bfn. It takes a while. Well done for surviving the biopsy. Did u get a chance to chat with profess B?  He's a lovely man


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## K jade

Bippy I'm also confused as to why your male colleague  felt the need to EMAIL you the news to. Surley it's his own private business.  Why did he feel that you needed to be made aware? Wish people would just keep a lid on it sometimes. 
Anyway just being a right cow at the moment.  A pregnancy announcement better not come my way anytime soon  that's for sure   x


----------



## Northern

I've just emailed her, the pregnant colleague.  MASSIVE step for me as I've never shared even a hint of this with anyone at work other than my line manager.  Hope I haven't made a massive mistake. 
I did draft an email last week, but couldn't send it.  I went into too much detail on that one and said 'let's go for coffee' etc, then realised actually I don't want to go for coffee with her, I don't want to go into all the horrible details, I just want to tell her I'm happy for her but we're struggling.  So this morning I wrote another one, much briefer, much less detailed, but just saying it's hard for me but congratulations, please keep this confidential;  read it through a million times and I've just pressed send.  
AAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH 

I've never felt like sharing this at work but I just couldn't face the actress performance when she told me about it, I've been dreading seeing her and I didn't think I could face it this time. 


And now I'm shaking with trepidation....


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## K jade

Well done

You've done the right thing xx


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## Northern

Thanks kjade xx

She replied.  Makes me glad I sent it - I knew she would be able to understand when I said I struggled with the cultural pressure to respond in the 'expected' way to pregnancy news.  She completely gets it and actually said she's feeling that too - she has battled anxiety in the past and is suffering at the moment with low mood and feeling very drained and overwhelmed, both physically and emotionally - but when she tells people she's pregnant she feels she should be 'glowing' and 'so excited' etc etc.  So we've found something in common.  
Makes me so irritated by the society we live in and this culture which prescribes certain over-positive ways of looking at things, and in doing so sweeps so many experiences under the carpet.  It shouldn't be that way.  Hopefully I've lifted some of that pressure for both of us now in the next few months. 

Bippy I'm sorry you're also dealing with yet more announcements.  They shouldn't invade your email inbox!!  And the workplace discussions of it are so hard - glad you could walk out from it and have some breathing space.  Keep going - tww is not over til it's over and the mental torture makes you second guess every twinge or not-twinge, it doesn't mean it hasn't worked yet. xx

Kjade I'd be v interested how you get on with the Lister - if we end up with my backup plan of going there to ask about egg share they're top of the list (and it's a short list as we'd be excluded from most already because of our failures). 

Aley - huge huge congratulations!  How amazing after all you've been through that this is the way it's worked.  IVF is such a complex thing, I wish we understood more about why it fails and simper treatment works.  Wonderful news for our thread - hope pregnancy is treating you well   xxx

Molly, glad you're feeling better, the little windows where we feel like ourselves are so precious!  Good luck with your next biopsy x


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## rubyring

Hi everyone,
Sorry I’ve not been around here for ages. And now I’m on my phone so I can’t scroll back! I hope everyone is doing ok.
I’ve been reading but not managed to reply. One thing I remember is looking at clinics success rates on the hfea website. I have to say none are that great! Unfortunately I think the clinics abroad have optimistic success rates, but I was shocked really.
K Jade- definitely time for a new clinic. I’m not sure how good the NHS are at IVF anyway. I understand if you want to stay in the UK but I think you’ll find clinics abroad will give a free consultation?
Northern- well done with the email. I do find work hard, there’s so much baby and children chat. They must think I’m not interested and really cold but I’m afraid I usually try to remove myself as quickly as possible. 
Finally I’m ready to do another cycle, but the current stress is that having been told we can ship sperm from our previous clinic to the new one, it seems like we cannot because the new clinic isn’t in the EU! The fact that it’s my husband’s property doesn’t seem to count for anything and anyway I can’t have any more treatment in Spain because I’m over the age limit. I really didn’t want my husband to have to do it all again....


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## bippy11

Haha kjade, thanks, I guess he just wanted to share the good news with the team which is fair enough. And it wasn't actually him talking about paternal leave, it was his manager asking HR about how it works etc, but within earshot of me - until I removed myself! 
Oh I so hope you get accepted by access fertility - when will you find out? Fingers crossed for you hun. x

Northern, well done for sending your email! I know that's such a scary thing to do, but really well done and Im so glad your colleague responded in a good way. It's really interesting what you say about our culture where it is expected that you react in a certain way and say certain things. I agree, it completely means that actual real feelings are unsaid and unheard. Until the last few months I had also only told my line manager about my situation, but recently I have told another 3 colleagues. I am pleased I told two of them, the third one I am not quite sure. It's a bit strange getting used to that a few people know. But I have made it clear that work is a bit of an escape / distraction place for me so it is not something I want to talk about there. 

Ruby lovely to hear from you! It's great that you are moving towards doing another cycle, although what a shame about the sperm, I wonder if there is any way around it? Does he have to have it extracted? How does your husband feel about it? 

My 2WW is seeming soooo loooong! My snail logo has never been more appropriate!   Ive not really been sleeping this week, I think it's the hormones and the worry, so I just lie awake for hours in the night worrying and then I feel exhausted all day. I was so exhausted today that I had to go home early and work from here and I just hope I haven't pushed too hard and it will impact the chances of this working. Im going to completely relax on the weekend! Im swinging between thinking it's worked and not worked and it's driving me a bit mad   and I feel so sad when I think it hasn't worked. Gosh, why doesn't this get easier?? You'd think after so many 2WWs Id be a bit better at it by now!!


----------



## K jade

Northern im so gald you sent the email and so glad she replied with sympathy. it must feel like a massive weight has been lifted.

Rubyring welcome back and great news that your planning another cycle. sorry however about the sperm transport obstacle! ... your new clinic is in cyrpus I take it? I think we are going to see this problem more and more after Uk leaves EU. 
does he require retrieval? or just doing it the standard way? if the latter then I know a lot of ladies get their OH to fly out for 1 day , do their bit which is then frozen then go straight back home before you start your cycle. it takes the pressure off. dunno if that's an option? 
but I can imagine if he's anything like my DH he's probably huffing and puffing that he even has to do anything in this process. honestly it makes me glad sometimes that I use DS. no man to drag around like a stone. apart from the obvious anonymous one!

bippy no 2wws definitely don't get easier. I really really really hate the 2ww. its been the worst part of this for me. all of them. I can cope with stims, response, OHSS, etc but the2ww is absolute hell for me. As yet I haven't found a way to make them any easier.

no movement for me as yet. I haven't applied for Access yet as upon reflection I don't think I want to do 3 more stim cycles which is what the package I was looking at entails . I also don't think I would be eligible for the 100% refund package anyway. 
ideally I only want to do 2 more cycles with OE. 
Now Lister offer a 2 cycle package under Access but its only 50% refund. That would be Ok. but getting DH on board with that will be another story ...
he was raring to go when I said about the 100% refund package. will he be so enthusiastic about the 50% one.? I'm not sure.... 
on the plus side I feel Lister is the clinic for me as it caters for all the issues I have - immunes and questionable egg quality. Travel will be an issue as they are 2 hours away but I will need to be creative there. All local clinics near to me are of my list as I don't think they'll cut the mustard for me. 
so I will find a way to cycle there one way or another
On a positive note we have booked an all inclusive to gran canaria in 2 months. 
thought we better get in there fast before the pound crashes !

love to all
Kjxxx

PS *praying* thought I saw a post from you the other day and wandered how you were getting on..?


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## bippy11

It's not worked. I knew it hadn't by now, I could feel it hadn't for the last couple of days, so we decided to test this morning instead of waiting to do bloods tomorrow and it confirmed what I already knew.   x


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## K jade

Oh hunny I'm so sorry 
(((Hugs )))))). We are here for you 
How many days post ET are u? 
I send u best wishes but know they will be of little comfort 
xx


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## Northern

Oh no Bippy, I’m so sorry   
Devastated for you, this is so unfair. I know there’s no words to make it better, but we’re all here and sending you love and gentle hugs   
Do still go for bloods tomorrow then you get something definitive. 
Take care lovely xxx


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## bippy11

Thank you lovelies, it's nice to have you who care and understand   xx
Its 11dp5dt so would have showed up on a test by now. Plus I can feel I'm not pregnant. We'll go and do the bloods tomorrow anyway as our doc wants us to. 
That was transfer no 7, we have now transferred 10 embroys in total and 5 of them have been pgs tested. I don't think this is going to work out for us. We have another 3 in the freezer, but why would they work when so many haven't.. I know we'll try because we couldn't just leave them there, but I am losing hope that this is going to happen. Feel very depressed right now


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## K jade

Oh hun I can't imagine your devastation and disappointment  (well sadly I can !)
It's awful to have BFNS.  Mcs. Then BFNS again. Its just  1 step forward then 2 steps back all the time . 
In times like these all I do reflect  on the numerous  women on here who just fought on and on and eventually got their babies. Yes many had transfers  racking up the double figures which is sobering stuff.  I'm not saying it's easy to keep going but personally I don't feel anywhere near like giving up yet and why should you? 
I guess my hope is that 1 day my body will just figure it out and pregnancy will finally happen for me . My reasoning is that if my body can be so flippin good at getting it wrong each and every time then it must be good at something so it surely has the ability to get it right too? Not sure if that even makes sense 
I have no doubt you will return for your frosties and get back in the boxing ring 
In the meantime lots of self care : tea , cake, meet with 'safe' friends,  cosy nights in with hubby , we need to be good to ourselves 
Sending u lots of love xxxxxx


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## HappyAmbler

Just wanted to pop on and say hello. I've only found this thread today, and I feel like this is where I need to be. Currently 6dp5dt of our 5th IVF (6th transfer).

*bippy* - I'm so sorry about your BFN. But great advice from *K jade* - look after yourself, and you will live to fight another day


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## Northern

Thinking of you today Bippy, hope you're doing ok xxx


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## K jade

HappyAmbler good luck
when are you planning to test?

I too am a good responder and  I get blasts but thus far they have been questionable quality 
has anyone told you why this happens?
I know 1 reason is PCOS but no one has ever told me I have that and I don't really have symptoms


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## HappyAmbler

Hey *K jade*

OTD is Friday and think I will wait til then - just can't face seeing a negative and having to carry on with the horrible IM progesterone 

I don't think anyone can really say why this is happening to us. It looks like the problem is with me (although our clinic won't rule out a 'hidden' sperm issue). PCOS has been suggested, but like you I don't have typical symptoms.

We're not there yet, but I'm hoping the stimulation protocol will make a difference in our case. Our first three rounds were long protocol and our embryos were terrible (we made one B/CC blast at ARGC). For our 4th round we moved to Serum and I did a short protocol with letrazole. By some miracle we ended up with an AA blast on day 5. It didn't stick but we thought it was def worth another try. This time we did a minimal stim protocol with clomid and a bit of menopur, and ended up with two AB blasts on day 5 - I never would have believed that was possible in a million years!


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## K jade

happyambler  im keeping everything crossed for you for this Friday . 
sounds like you have a great embie on board.  I too never test early for that very reason. 
it does seem that serum is a great clinic for people who have not had any luck elsewhere. fingers crossed they will come through for you. 
I did get two A/B hatching  blasts on my last cycle .  They  were frozen due to ohss. they  did not survive the thaw which I was devastated about and am still finding very hard to understand. 
my clinic was nhs and I later found some 'eye opening' information about their success rates which raised a lot of questions so im glad that I have now come to the end of my time there.  
im looking at the lister now for a fresh start  and hoping to cycle again next year. 
serum was a clinic which I very much contemplated but I think it will be easier for me to stay in the UK for now 
kjxx


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## HappyAmbler

Thanks lovely 

I can't believe two good quality blasts didn't survive thaw!! WTF?? I can't imagine how that must have felt 

I'm always hesitant to start recommending clinics, as the thing with IVF is we're all different, and what works for one couple may not work for another - lots of people swear by ARGC, but we spent over 30 grand there and got one poor quality day 6 blast out of two cycles  But I will say Serum has been a good experience for us. It's cheaper, even if I'm not pregnant they've done better than our previous clinics, I feel like they actually care, and it's pretty nice going on holiday to do IVF 

Anyway, I still believe the clinic/protocol can have a massive effect on egg/embryo quality. So hopefully the change to Lister will do the trick for you xx


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## HappyAmbler

It's another BFN for us 

I kind of wrote off our first three cycles because our embryos were so crap. But now an AA and two AB blasts have failed to stick. Maybe this just isn't going to happen?  

Should be able to get a follow-up over Skype pretty quickly. Want to know what on earth my consultant thinks is happening, and whether it's worth another go. 

So glad I found this thread. My world view is so skewed that I think people who are successful within three rounds are super fertile  Currently feeling like the most infertile person in the world


----------



## K jade

oh no hun im so sorry . please don't think you are alone we have all experienced this on here, we really do understand are all here for you
I know when I've just had a Bfn I just want to crawl away and shut the world out so do whatever you need to do to get through it, sometimes I didn't even want to hear about other people going through the same thing  as it almost made it more awful.

its always worth another go, there are often no answers as to why bfns happen which means that there is every reason to keep trying if that's what you want. also from being on FF a while it does seem that having a long string of bfns  does not make you any less likely to eventually get your positive result in the end , as ivf is just completely random.

I agree. people who succeed during their first few tries ARE super fertile!  

and I can relate to feeling like the most infertile person in the world. on my last poas I actually broke the pregnancy test as no result even appeared.  I started to read all sorts of things into that such as am I actually a real women?

will your follow up be with penny?  im sure she will have some answers for you, her expertise is patients like us who aren't the typical patient and need that little bit extra to get success
((((((hugs))))))) and keep posting 
xxx


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## HappyAmbler

Thank you thank you for your lovely and thoughtful reply  

I was holding it together until I had a message from an acquaintance who coincidentally cycled at the same time as us to say she's pregnant. It was her first round and she was completely clueless about all things fertility and IVF (I had been giving advice about injections etc). Not that I'm not happy for her, but FFS. That's when the floodgates opened.

Your message has dragged me back - you're right, I still think there's hope. My follow up will be with Sofia, but I imagine Penny will be involved in discussions. I'm not sure where else we can go with our protocol, other than reducing the dose further. But I guess I need to wait to hear what she says. At the moment, I feel like it's worth doing another two cycle package with them. And we should be able to get started pretty soon - this was a split cycle - I stimmed in June then had a FET in Sept, so my ovaries don't need time to recover.

I know I will feel better when I have a plan xx


----------



## K jade

planning the next one always helps me  
its like a break up. the best way to get over someone is to get under somebody else! 

as for your acquaintance well that's a kick in the teeth. always great if ivf works first time. sadly for most it does not. 

I had a little look back at your posts and it seems that you and I have similar issues  (I also have some minor immune issues ) but generally to this day remain unexplained. its the absolute worst diagnosis. 
serum seem to be the best place for getting lovely looking blasts with their personalised touch so I would definitely take heart that you are in good hands 

sometimes it helps me to think that even though I haven't had a proper bfp yet things are heading in the right direction. 
you are now getting some great embies so you are getting closer and hopefully it wont be long until you get a bfp.


----------



## HappyAmbler

You've been a lifesaver this morning *K jade*, thank you 

It is a sh*tty diagnosis, but it's nice to talk to someone who understands xx


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## K jade

honestly  it makes me laugh sometimes that we went from the most categorical and explained diagnosis in the world (dh has zero sperm ), to then switching to donor , thinking bingo this will work now, only to now , 4 years down the line, be dealing with UNEXPLAINED infertility   
I was happier when we actually had a reason. 
after addressing some immune issues, I seem to now have  come back to the quality of my eggs.  

you are absolutely not alone
if u can try and do something nice for yourself and DH over the weekend, even if that means doing nothing at all . this is a great tread. we all need to chat to people who understand and believe me we all understand here.xx


----------



## HappyAmbler

Wow, that sucks!! I know what you mean when you say you were happier when you had a reason - I wish we had something definitive to "fix".

I read an article the other day by someone who had her daughter through IVF (first round, obvs ) She said something that resonated along the lines of - in life you can usually force things to go your way through hard work and bloody mindedness (but that doesn't work with infertility). I have never worked so hard at anything in my life, and I'm a v stubborn/ bloody minded person !! It pisses me off so much that I live the healthiest life of anyone I know, and yet here we are six years down the line with this sh*tty diagnosis  

So hope this works out for both of us (and everyone else on here!!)


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## K jade

HappyAmbler said:


> in life you can usually force things to go your way through hard work and bloody mindedness (but that doesn't work with infertility).


yes that's certainly true to an extend. its why infertility is so disempowering. 
the only thing I think that works to some degree with ivf is persistence. and willingness to make far more compromises that you originally thought you would i.e. being open to donation.
having been around this site a while there are a few ladies who you would write off as lost causes , but now have take home babies. The most transfers I've seen on here was 19, prior to that the lady had no implantation whatsoever. and it was at serum . but not first go or even second. she did many cycles there. 
its incredibly hard to think of ever having to do that many attempts, but I do reflect on these women to give me some comfort that having a very dire history of bfns doesn't mean its always going to be that way. and women with seemingly hopeless histories can and do carry to term 
xx


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## HappyAmbler

Agree with everything you said  We just have to keep going xx

(I have let the idea of donation into my head, just not ready to go there yet)


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## K jade

Hi ladies 

We will be having a meet up 
Sunday 11th November in Rev's  Birmingham City centre time TBC

All welcome 
Xx


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## HappyAmbler

Hey everyone

So nice that you're meeting up - have you done it before? I only realised after posting that I was crashing quite a long-standing group - thanks for having me  (Birmingham is quite far away from me)

Just thought I would update. Had my follow-up Skype call with Serum on Tues and we were thrown a bit of a curve ball.

They're now suggesting that my eggs might not be the (only) problem, but a potential 'hidden' sperm issue. Obvs there is a problem on my side, with my wonky cycles and high response to stimulation. But apparently they wouldn't expect such poor outcomes if it was just that. Thinking about it, we attributed the fact that we made blastos in Greece to the different protocols. But ARGC's approach improves egg quality for a lot of women... And we also did another thing differently - my DH did their sperm improvement protocol beforehand. Maybe that's what made the difference?

They're suggesting split insemination with DH and a donor. In that scenario we would preferentially transfer a me+DH embryo, but any me+donor embryos would be frozen for potential future transfer. Don't know how I feel about this... (have spoken to DH obvs but more talking needed). 

This is all a lot to take in. The idea had been raised previously, but I didn't feel v seriously. There is a lot of stuff bubbling in my head about everything I've put myself through for the last six years believing that my eggs were the problem (obvs I wouldn't blame my DH if there is a sperm issue, but it's still there). But I don't want to give it too much head space in case it is just a red herring. On the one hand, it's kind of tempting to believe the problem isn't just with me, but it still might be. Then there would be a lot of angst about donor sperm for nothing. 

Planning another round ASAP. Because this was a FET (we did a minimal stim protocol with clomid which means you can't transfer on the same cycle), I don't need to recover and can start on my next cycle. They are suggesting another minimal stim drug combo. And because of that we don't want to go down the donor route this time. But I will ask if they have any further protocol suggestions if this doesn't work. As I don't want to be fiddling around with different drug combos forever. If we go down the donor route, I want to feel that we have exhausted all options first. 

Hope all well with everyone else xx


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## Northern

Hiya Happy Ambler, 
Sorry I haven't posted to you before now - been a bit hectic but I saw your posts and I'm so sorry for your bfn.  
Follow up consultations are the worst!  We build them up as the thing which may give us a few answers and all they do is throw up more - and more complicated - questions.  Questions which rarely have an answer and just leave us wondering and worrying about what to do next. 
I'm not the expert on egg/sperm issues but can TOTALLY relate the 'donor or not' conundrum.  We also thought we knew what we were dealing with but it was only 5 cycles down the line where we discovered just how damaged my dp's sperm were, and we had to accept we were flogging a dead horse, so to speak.  
On our 4th round we were also persuaded to do 50/50 own/donor sperm.  We had 1 os blast transferred, and 5 ds blasts frozen.  Like you, I let the idea into my head, but just couldn't get myself fully there with it.  We went for a 5th round of os in November last year, which failed - our 5 ds blasts are still out in Prague just in case, but for me adoption became the next route we will look at (another long story). 
My advice is to take your time deciding what to do next and go with what your gut tells you - whatever the advice from clinics/family/partner or anyone else.  Let all the options settle in your head before deciding how you feel about any of them.  
Don't know if it would help but the Fertility Show is happening in London early November, where they have talks and presentations on all sorts of options, and stands from different clinics, which may help you explore your options. 

Look after yourself in the meantime - and you're more than welcome to the Birmingham meet-up if you can make it, we've found it so nice to meet up with other IVF veterans! xx

Bippy - how are you doing lovely? 
Xxx


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## K jade

OK do not panic!!
you are not the first person that penny will have told has hidden sperm issues to, and certainly wont be the last! 
this is something she advocates ALOT . and I certainly don't think she's wrong. there is a hell of a lot about the sperm we do not know and there are a lot of ladies that try many attempts with DE then only have success when they then change to double donation. so yes I do think there are men with hidden sperm issues absolutely. 
However, there are also some  women who have been told this , that have sought a second opinion elsewhere and been told the sperm is absolutely fine , optimal if anything, and then gone on to have success without the need to change sperm. 
so just be mindful that just because she has said this, doesn't necessarily mean its definitely true. its just a possibility. but when you have implantation failure, sadly pretty much anything is a possibility and nothing is off the table . 
I think your plan of another OE/OS is a good one. then maybe you can review? IF you don't have success but I hope you do

very welcome to join us on the 11th. I think we all come from quite far. Birmingham is basically the in between place and takes all of us about 2 hrs. come to think of it I don't actually think any of us live in B'ham lol x


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## HappyAmbler

Wow - thanks both for coming back to me so quickly!

That's interesting *K jade* and certainly something that had crossed my mind. And it wouldn't be the first example - when I had my hysteroscopy in Greece they apparently removed a load of connective tissue. I was blown away by this at the time thinking why wasn't this picked up before. But later found out that this is also fairly common... I guess this is the problem when you pay for treatment. I believe they're good at what they do (not just Serum, but ARGC too) but it's hard to trust their motives sometimes 

I guess we will only get an answer one way or another by trying it. But as you say, we want to give OS another go first.

Thanks for sharing your experience *Northern* - this was not something I was expecting to have to think about!! Not sure I would be able to cope with the fertility show. I would be looking around feeling jealous of people with 'simple' fertility problems (as I said before - these days I look at people who have success within three cycles as super fertile - I know I have issues!!)


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## HappyAmbler

I'll have a think about Birmingham. It would be nice to meet some people who know what this sh*t boat is like!!


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## K jade

Bippy just posting to check your OK hun ?xx


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## bippy11

Hi ladies, 

Sorry for my absence in the last couple of weeks and thanks for thinking of me and asking after me   The negative hit me quite hard and I've really struggled. I also felt awful coming off medication, I was on a high dose of progesterone and got really bad headaches and felt nauseous for just over a week after stopping. I mainly worked from home and found it really difficult being in the office and kept getting emotional and feeling like I was going to cry (which is not ideal for the office!). However as DH is on half term this week I have also taken the week off and we have just come back from a few days away in Norfolk. Loads of walking, which is always quite therapeutic for me and just what we needed. The beach there is so beautiful and we saw seals!!! Amazing   We're back now for a couple of days and then going up North to visit DH's family incl our two gorgeous little nieces and I'm really looking forward to seeing them as it's been a long time. 

In terms of treatment, I went straight on to oestrogen patches and metformin, both low doses. My doc wants to try adding this to the mix and see if that can make a difference. I'm happy he has an idea for something different we can try. We won't transfer this cycle as he wants me to be on it for a bit longer, so we are hoping to do a transfer next cycle, early December time. That means we'll find out whether it's worked or not just before Christmas. Not great timing, but never mind. 

HappyAmbler, (belated) welcome to the thread and so sorry that you also got a negative.   How are you feeling? And did you have physical side effects from coming off medication? 

Northern and Kjade, how are you guys doing? Hope you are well     xxx

Re meeting up - I will be at the Fertility Show on the Saturday, I will be helping out on the FNUK stall (I run a monthly support group as a volunteer for them). Would love to see any of you if you decide to come, let me know. Im hoping to get the chance to go to one or two talks there as well, I need to look at the programme. 

I'll also have a think about Sunday 11th Nov, it'd be lovely to see some of you again. Who's coming? Are you guys in touch with MrsC and Carrie still on w app?


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## Northern

Ah Bippy it's good to hear from you, sorry you've been having a hard time though - not surprising, just sorry you've had to go through this.  
Good you've been able to get a few days away though, I'm the same with walking, it does the world of good and just clears the head out a bit.  Hope you enjoy your trip up North too   

Glad to hear your doctor has a plan and you can get going pretty quickly.  Let's all just pretend Christmas isn't happening....!  I could do without it but at the same time I love it in so many ways and I'm ready for the break. 

Yep Mrs C and Carrie are coming, we're looking forward to a few cocktails and a catch up, it'd be lovely to see you again if you can make it. 

I'm still hoping to get down for the Fertility Show but it'll be on the Sunday unfortunately so I won't see you there - I'm at my parents for the weekend but staying with a family friend - so I need to come up with a cover story as to why I need dropping at the station early on a Sunday morning    thinking of making up a friend's birthday that I need to get back for or something lol 
xx


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## K jade

Bippy so glad your doing OK and well done for getting back in the saddle . I honestly don't think that having massive breaks between cycles do us any good. it certainly has never helped me. 
your weekend away sounds lovely, and how amazing to see seals!
yes we're all going to the 11th other than Fifi who isn't able to make it. will be lovely to see you there

AFM had my notes sent via the post yesterday from my old clinic and feel a bit thrown  
I had assumed that the 2 blasts they x-fered back in July were [email protected], based on the fact that my 2 strong ones survived nil of the thaw. 
on transfer day I asked the embryologist not to tell me anything about the grades as I was in such a bad way .
however on my notes delivered yesterday I found out  they were not the rubbish blasts I had assumed they were. 1 was a 3BB grade , expanding and had survived 100% of the thaw. the other was an early Blast and survived 90%. yeh alight they weren't show stoppers but common plenty of babies come from embies of that grade. 

then on my notes further down was the sentence that transfer had been difficult with blood and mucas on the catheter. during x-fer the nurse and cons said that my bladder is basically huge. She even asked during transfer if it did a job like teaching where I had to stand for ages with a full bladder as it was basically dominating my whole abdomen. as a result it pushed my uterus right back so it was almost tilted to a 90 degree angle. 
now transfer was bad. she tried for ages to get catheter  in and eventually had to change it completely. she  then had to send me out of the room to go and empty my bladder completely. I returned with a virtually empty bladder and hey presto transfer was fine. 
this also happened on my FET back in 2017 too but they gave me no advice that on my nest x-fer I should have an empty bladder  and sadly I made the same mistake again. 
so could this have been part of the problem?

I know that at the end of the day at best 50% of blasts do not implant but I somehow feel that I should have at least got a chemical or some semblance of implantation. 
Of course I do need to take into account the fact that my clinic has very very  low success rates  and this could be impacting  on things too. 

not really sure if anyones got any advice for me here but feel I need to get it  out to straighten things up in my head . x


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## bippy11

Hi ladies, 

ah it sounds lovely for the 11th, I'll try to come too! I didn't know if you were still in touch with the others, but its so cool that Carrie and Mrs C are coming, it'll be lovely to catch up with them also. shame that Fifi can't make it. Northern what a shame Ill miss you at the Fertility Show, I will let you know if my plans change to Sunday, but I think it's unlikely. But then Ill hopefully see you the week after anyway. 

Northern I'd love to just pretend Christmas isn't happening this year (apart from the break from work)! We're going to spend it just the two of us this year, we will either have just got a negative or be in very early pregnancy and super anxious. DHs mum cried when he told her we weren't coming.. so I emailed to explain exactly what stage we will be at and she has been more understanding knowing that. We are still planning to visit them a few days later to coincide with when his brother, wife and their girls will be there, but have said that it depends on the outcome and if we have a negative we might not be up to it. TBH they were really not very supportive last Christmas just a few days after our miscarriage so I just don't think I can face going just after getting a negative this year. As for my family, I don't really want to see them at all this year, but haven't spoken to them in a while so haven't talked to them about Christmas yet.. As my sister is now pregnant hopefully they will just put it down to that and not kick up a fuss about it. Are you guys seeing your families at Christmas? 

I went to see my super pregnant bf yesterday. It was ok to see her bump actually and really nice to catch up with her. She's got her own struggles, but she has always been there for me and I really appreciate being able to talk openly with her. It's strange how with some people I find it really difficult when they are pregnant, but with others it's not so bad. Another good friend of mine is just in the middle of her first IVF round, so I am trying to support her with that, although I worry that my story must scare her a bit! 

We're heading up North to see DHs family tomorrow, so hopefully it will be fine. I find it difficult that they don't really acknowledge so much what we are going through, I know they find it difficult to talk about, but I hate when it's just ignored. But anyway hopefully it will be ok, I am trying to not expect too much and really look forward to seeing our gorgeous nieces. 

kjade, Im at a loss too - our embryos are good day 5 / 6 genetically screened, but still they don't work..   Your transfer doesnt sound good, I don't know if that can impact the outcome, but maybe because the embryo will be in the catheter for longer if it takes a long time - I don't know if that would be bad for it? Definitely something for you to take note of and discuss with your consultant before your next transfer so that they are prepared and so you can decide whether you should go with an empty bladder.


----------



## K jade

Bippy how was your weekend? I too had two days straight of in laws then my own parents yesterday. like you I'm not sure what to make of Christmas. probably just bury my head in the sand and pretend its not happening!

OK well another U- turn for me.   I started to become very anxious at the thought of another OE cycle and the money that its going to cost. even going through access fertility (doubtful id be accepted anyway with my history) I would still be forking out for the donor sperm as well as meds, not to mention the travel to and from London. the cost was starting to make me feel sick 
Me and DH talked about it and he admitted he wasn't happy about it either and just felt it was  going to be embarking on another fruitless journey.  I really just felt  I was doing another OE attempt just for closure. 

SO... im in talks with Reprofit  for double donation embryos. I'm going to pay extra for PGS testing too.  I feel much happier taking this route. if it works then I know it was  my eggs that were at fault . if it doesn't then I know that I have a serious implantation problem that may or may not be fixable. 
maybe my eggs are fine, but after 6 cycles I just feel that have had their chance. .. so here goes. please  wish me luck   

looking forward to seeing those of you who are coming next week
xxx


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## bippy11

oh kjade that is a big decision there! Well done hun, that's not easy. I think it's something that has been brewing for a while for you and sometimes you need that to make a decision like that, try on the different options for size, mull it over and go back and forwards a bit until you know what feels right. Does it feel like a bit of a relief having made the decision? Im so glad you and DH are on the same page with it too. 

How was your time with inlaws and parents? My weekend with inlaws was actually really nice, felt better than it has done for a long time. They asked about our treatment, how we are doing with it etc, not in like a big talk kind of way, but it was acknowledged and talked about, and that just put me at ease and meant I was able to enjoy it and focus on other things too. I can't deal with it when it's this big elephant in the room that everyone just ignores. My nieces are seriously cute, I loved spending time with them. Makes me so desperately hope that we get our own one day. I want one!!! 

Im going to come to Bham girls! It's all a bit busy at the moment, but I want to see you all!   Is it Sunday 11th? And what time? Let me know and I will get my train tickets booked. yey.

HappyAmbler do you fancy joining us? How are you doing hun, hope you are ok xx


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## K jade

yeh  I just feel ive blxxdy had enough. im sick of nothing ever working for me. alright, I have immune issues, but should they be stopping the show entirely? I really think there must be something completely fundamentally wrong with my eggs for them to never implant. the way I see it if DE doesn't work then I wont regret trying it. as then  ill know  that I have a serious implantation problem if proven pgs embies from young donors cant work on me. and if it does work, well then I definitely wont regret it!
I also felt I was only doing another OE cycle for closure and didn't really believe in my heart that Id get a baby out of it.  so its time to cut my loses really and get moving with this..

We're all getting in for around 1.00pm so yes book the train !
XX


----------



## rubyring

Hi everyone,
I just wanted to say have a great time tomorrow on your meet up! So sorry I can't come. Would love to hear all about it  


Apologies also for being so quiet. In brief, the sperm transfer was all set up finally, it's been very difficult. But then I read on FF about the clinic I was planning to go to, and it all sounds really dodgy. If you go to the Cyprus section, there's a thread about all change. Well, it turns out that "clinic" is a marketing team which works with a medical team. Apparently I can stick with the original doctor or go with a new doctor. But they are in different buildings. I haven't had some medical questions answered, I guess that's difficult if the doctor is changing or there are 2 of them in different places. And you never actually your co-ordinator. There were other odd things I read too. So I've been massively stressed about it all and am researching clinics all over again. However I do feel fortunate that I discovered just in time, before the sperm was transferred there. But of course another cycle is on hold yet again, there's no way I can go before Christmas now. 


K jade - I'm glad you've made peace with DE. I think it must be so much harder when you're younger as you are, we all think our eggs will be OK up to say 40 but sadly that's not the reality.
Bippy - glad you had fun with your nieces, and well done seeing your pregnant friend. I know how hard that is
Hello to everyone else x


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## K jade

Ruby were you intending to go with Team miracle/dogus ?

cause I can never understand whether that's 1 clinic or 2 combined. or if its the same clinic  and was called Dogus but now called TM?
Its completely confusing so can understand why your confused. 
I will take a look at the thread about it
I hear quite a lot of really good things about Team miracle, and a lady on this thread has recently had twins with them and I had  believe nothing but praise for them. 

I take it this Cyprus clinic is now off the cards then? I can understand why as I wouldn't want to have treatment somewhere that was going through loads of changes. 
it appears that quite a few ladies are heading to Ukraine for ivf recently. I hear its very cheap but a bit 'wild west'  
BUT there's no age limit and I think you get loads of donor info and even photos...is that something you've considered?

Cyprus has other clinics s well. I hear good things about Dynnya (have no idea on spelling) ....


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## rubyring

Hi K jade!
Yes TM. It's just a marketing team. The Cyprus clinics all seem to have similar names and then doctors seem to move about. And then different doctors / clinics work out of the same hospital sometimes.......very confusing. However there are other clinics in Cyprus which are not so mixed up. I think! I'm really not sure about Ukraine........but Latvia has been suggested. My age does cut the choice down, maybe it's good to have less choice?!
How's everything with you??
How was the MEET??!
X


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## K jade

Ruby I would definitely seriously consider Dunya in north Cyprus.  I have heard some good things about them and their success rates.
I hear so many mixed reviews about TM. with some completely raving about them and others not so much. now you say they're just a marketing group it makes things even more sketchy. 
that being said lots and lots have got their take home babies from them so they must be doing something right. 
there is also Baccechi , or british Cyprus ivf as I believe they are now known.
I know what you mean about Ukraine its a bit hard to know just how 'above board' they are with their practices 


yes we had a lovely time at the meet, hope to see some more faces next time  

Afm things are moving forward quickly
I have had a match. I asked for blonde haired and blue eyes donors and strangely got matched with 2 donors with black hair and blue eyes. all other characteristics completely fitted with myself and DH so I accepted the match. 
tbh I was very surprised to get 2 donors with black hair and blue eyes as its such an unusual combination and I am half wandering if my co ordinator made a mistake and typed 'black' instead of 'blonde'. 
as I don't think you can really ascertain much from hair colour (people can dye it) its not worrying me too much. the most important thing was blue eyes as me and Dp have these. 
so my transfer is planned for January. would have love to go over before and combine it with xmas shopping but it would have been too hectic.
I'm doing the usual shabang of immunes but with 2 intralipids this time instead of 1 and a lower dose of pred. so here goes. lets see if the use of DE can finally get me somewhere !

hope everyone else is OK
xx


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## HappyAmbler

Hello lovelies

I'm sorry I disappeared... My way of coping with this most of the time is pretending it isn't happening, which means I only tend to come on here when I'm in the middle of things. I genuinely appreciate your support and I hope you understand  Our last BFN hit me hard - I have never felt so low. I think because we've come such a long way with our embryo quality, but what if that's as far as we get - pretty blasts that don't stick? Also five failed IVFs is a pretty sh*t place to be 

So obviously I'm cycling again  We're trying another OE/OS round with Serum. Currently day 7 of stims trying a different low dose protocol with letrozole and menopur. We're doing another split cycle - if we get any embryos they will be frozen for transfer after xmas, which means I can come home after EC. Love Athens, but this is the fifth time this year, I'm on my own and the weather is a bit crap, so happy I don't have to stay out here for longer.

I'm sorry I couldn't make the meet up, glad you had a nice time. Will def try to make the next one if I can!

Glad things are progressing quickly *K jade*. I hope we will both be having transfers in Jan!

Good luck for your transfer *bippy*.

Hello everyone else!!


----------



## IceCat

Hi ladies, hope you don't mind me joining this thread. 

My story short - unexplained infertility, 5 ivf/icsi cycles with own eggs and 3 fets with donor embryos, 1 early miscarriage and 1 chemical, all others bfn. I have extremely hard time coping with all this. Now my clinic in Prague matched me with donor embryos again, but I have zero desire to go, I'm just feeling terribly hopeless. Sorry for this depression, I just don't know what else to say 

Wishing everyone plenty of luck.


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## K jade

Happy ambler well done for getting  back in the saddle. I've heard good things about letrozole. Fingers crossed it yields a positive outcome 4 you. We are strong women to put ourselves through this time and time again. We need to be kind to ourselves and give ourselves a pat on the back from time to time. 

Ice cat welcome Hun. Sorry for your tough tough journey. We here on this thread really understand just how devastating it is to  have multiple cycles and never even get off the starting block . Its tourtuous. Don't feel you are alone cause your definitely not. 
I , like you, am about to move onto DD embryos (going to reprofit) in the hope it can help me finally get a BFP.  There's nothing glaringly wrong with my own eggs. But after many cycles I'm starting to feel they have had their chance.  
Have gennet  given u any suggestions as to why it hasn't worked yet ?  Offered any drugs like steroids  / intralipids etc? A year ago after another failed cycle  I 'treated myself' to a copy of Alan beers 'is your body baby friendly' . It helped me understand the science of implantation and gave me the knowledge and power to look for answers . I'm still searching but I feel that being your own advocate and researcher is key. I'd definitely recommend the book.its fairly reader friendly. 

Ruby have u made any decisions ? 

AFM I'm all booked in for transfer in Jan. Thumbs up from me thus far regarding Reprofit. They communication has been excellent . Oh and DP and I are off on holiday in 2 weeks so that is putting a smile on my face 
Kj xx


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## IceCat

K jade thank you so much. I´m very similar, there was nothing wrong with my eggs/ husband´s sperm but our embryos were just bad quality for some reason. So I though perfect quality donor embryos will work but unfortunately nothing. I don´t really think Gennet had any ideas either (I sent them a list of questions after last FET but got no answer). Didn't try intralipids but I'm always on prednisolone. Also had hysteroscopy before latest embryo transfer and found nothing. I'm always thinking maybe ERA test could help but it's not performed here in Iceland and travelling to Prague just for it is something I can't afford now. I think sometimes is it just bad luck and then ask myself can there be so much of bad luck then 

I would really want to try Reprofit but what stops me is that they're not in Prague so would be really hard to get there for me. 

Wishing you lots of luck on your transfer in January and hope your vacation will be great.


----------



## Northern

Hiya IceCat - I see you are a fellow Gennet non-graduate!  I'm not on here so much at the moment due to being in permanent limbo, but just wanted to pop in and say hello and I'm sorry you find yourself here.  Have all your transfers been medicated or have you tried non-medicated too?  Sorry you're feeling down at the minute - we can all relate to that on this thread.  Remember the importance of self-care through all of this; don't pressure yourself to feel better or optimistic, just look after yourself the best you can and make sure you get any support from where you need it.  Plans will start to form in their own time. 

Ruby and HappyAmbler, hope you're both doing ok. 
Ruby ah that's so frustrating re Cyprus, had heard there were some strange team changes going on over there.  Doesn't help when there's already so much to navigate with treatment abroad.  Good luck with the rest of your research. 

Happy Ambler good luck with your cycle - wow 5 is a lot to cram into a year, you must be exhausted.  Hope everything goes well and you get lots of embies to freeze.  I think freeze-all is a really good option if you can, wish I had done it too tbh, good to let your body recover and then do fet when you're more settled. 

Bippy, if you're reading, have been thinking of you a lot and hope you're doing ok and taking things one day at a time.  Sending you big hugs    

Hi kjade and everyone else   xxx


----------



## bippy11

Hi Ladies, 

Firstly, I'm sorry for being out of touch and kjade and northern thank you for your lovely messages xx means a lot   I've really been struggling, each day seems to be a challenge and I am trying to get by day by day. Honestly just getting to the office and getting through the day is an achievement at the moment. I hate what this stupid situation is doing to my life, but I know it's not forever, one day this will be over and we will move forward one way or another. But in the meanwhile I really still want to live my life and have some fun times, and I think we have done fairly well with that over the years, but lately I've just not been coping and things have felt so hard and got on top of me. I remind myself that I am lucky in so many ways, but even so, I have not really been able to shake this depression recently.

Rubyring nice to hear from you again, it sounds stressful with the uncertainty about your new clinic abroad. Although it must have been really frustrating that it is holding things up, it's good that you realised before it was too late and are able to have a closer look in to it. Have you got any further with it? x

Happy Ambler, hows it going with your stimms / ec? Are you back from Greece now? It's nice that you will have Christmas to recover from the EC and then be ready to go for transfer in the new year. I know what you mean about coming a long way but not the whole way.. we get loads of eggs and blasts, which is all very well and used to make me feel positive, but after having had 10 blasts transferred in total (incl 5 PGS screened euploid blasts), it's hard to keep a positive spin on it. I'm after a baby, not BFNs and mc's!! 

IceCat welcome! I'm so sorry to hear about your difficult journey. My doctor says he doesn't believe in luck (I've asked if it's just bad luck..) he says there is always a reason why it doesn't work, it's just that medical science has only got so far and can't necessarily give all the answers yet. Which isn't necessarily much help, but I think aaargh if we could just crack the reason, then we could work out what to do! 

Kjade - wow so exciting you've got matches! And it does seem to now be moving fairly quickly forwards for you, which is great! Really glad you are finding your new clinic good as well, it's so important to feel secure and in good hands. Now you can go off and enjoy your holiday knowing that you have a plan in place. You so deserve it hun. Where are you off to again? I could so do with a nice warm beach right about now!! 

Northern hun, what's happening with you? Are there any news on the adoption process? How are you feeling? Im wondering if your bf due very soon? I ask because mine is due end of the month and I remember they were about the same. I also have another good friend of mine who I had been supporting with her first cycle of IVF.. she's just got a positive! It's the old cliche that Im so happy for her, but sad for me. If that had happened for us (actually it did, we got a positive first IVF, but then mc) but if we hadn't had the mc we would have a little toddler running around now! 

Sending lots of love to you all, and sorry it's been a while, I'm not managing to do much at the moment but wanted to pop on here and say hello to you all   xxx


----------



## bippy11

ps - forgot to update about treatment!   Had a scan today, lining is coming along nicely so far, hopefully transfer in just under 2 weeks time. Of course I am hoping, but realistically I feel it is likely we will either have a BFN or MC for Christmas. Doc is optimistic as usual though, he's had me on patches last cycle to 'prime my lining with oestrogen' and metformin is up to twice daily now which has making me feel sick.


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## IceCat

Hi  Northern - thank you so much for your support  . Yes I've only had medicated transfers so far but maybe should talk to Gennet to ask for a non medicated one. I just can't pick myself up and start getting ready for a next treatment, have zero hope and it's been lasting for months now. Finances also became an issue... I feel that time flies so fast and I have to continue doing and doing those treatments but I just can't, like I'm frozen and can't move forward at all.

Bippy - hi and thank you. I also wish I could discover that reason behind all those failures. I hope so much your transfer will work out after all those heartbreaking difficulties you've faced.  I understand how you feel though, when I look at myself I also imagine I will never get anything except bfn or chemical. But you still got implantations so somehow I'm very hopeful it means you are definitely on the road to your baby. Sending you hugs


----------



## IceAndFire

Hi girls, I hope you don’t mind me joining you. 

Just had my 4th FET this year and it was unfortunately  BFN. We still have 2 more early blastocysts left. Unfortunately worse quality than this recent one. I wonder why to even bother but then my monkey brain says to me that if there wouldn’t be a chance then the clinic will not freeze it. Don’t know. 

This BFN hit me hard. I feel almost like after my miscarriage. I feel like my womb is a graveyard for all of my children and as much as dramatic it sounds that’s exactly how I feel about it now. 

I know it will pass because it always does but maybe this time it will be different and it will take much longer to recover after this. I have a history of depression on my own so I’m well aware when one is approach me. I don’t want to give in. Need to stay sane. I know that it all depends on the attitude but it’s so hard and tiring to still be positive. 

We have severe MFI and my husband’s brother seemes to have the same issue but somehow they got lucky with first try (twins) and we just have a parade of failures and heartbreaks. They are coming for Christmas this year and the thought of that just makes me sick. I just want to run. 

I know I have to get my act together but not feeling like doing so and that is the biggest danger for me this moment. I don’t want to feel sorry for myself for too long because I know it’s a trap. 

Btw. I might solved the mistery actually. Around this time I suppose to have my due day if the pregnancy from earlier this year would not be abnormal and would stick. Plus a coworker recently gave birth to her son ( first try ivf + 8 beautiful blastocysts left in the freezer) She had transfer between my first and second transfer. It’s so freaking hard


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## K jade

Iceandfire welcome. Sorry u find yourself on this thread. No one wants to wind up here. But we are a friendly bunch! Im sorry for your bfn 
Sorry not very knowledgeable about male factors . Have gennet suggested anything they can do different. MACS or PCSI?  Thats really gutting that your bil had the same diagnosis but had such sweet success  . 

Bippy your lining is doing well at the moment!  Everything crossed 4 u 

Ruby I was having a look and it seems Dr firdevs from team miracle has set up her own practice. She's slashed the 'team' from the title and just it just 'Miracle ivf ' ! Could of been a bit more imaginative if u ask me LOL 

Icecat I completely understand your dispondency.  I'm going for my 1st DD fet in Jan but frankly have no hope whatsoever.  Maybe I'll be proved wrong although I doubt it. I hope science gets a move on for us and finds  the true reason some women have so many failures. Fingers crossed answers are just round the corner for us 

Love 2 all. I'm keeping my head down atm waiting for Jan so I can have my first wack at DD.  oh and a decent clinic too lol! No expectations anymore just going with the flow 
Xx


----------



## Loonytoon

Hi everyone! Have you room for one more Gennet non-graduate?!!

My dear friend apples has tried in the past to get me to join, so better late than never? ! Also while on that, I think D day may be soon for you apples, so am thinking of you both!! 

I don’t even know what to say about myself.....my siggy below says a lot, I stopped filling it in a while back,  and I don’t know if I could face typing it all again. 6 years ttc, 36yo, moderate endo, lowish amh and mfi seem to be our main issues. Have done every test you could imagine and doctors won’t consider donor egg yet for me and truthfully I’m not there yet anyway. At the mo we are on an enforced break from our gp and my dhs counsellor, while I’m in the middle of a long downreg to calm the endo. 

I’ve been very lucky to know some amazing women irl who had Ivf and a lot of my close friends have had treatment. However we are the last ones standing. And I’m feeling very alone, feeling I’m bringing my parents and family down as they can’t bear to see my heart broken so many tines, can’t talk to dh as neither of us are strong enough to carry the other, and sure no one else understands. So here I am, hoping to support you all as best I can. I suppose the only advantage of being so long at this game is we are all quite knowledgeable in quite a lot!

Bippy very best wishes for the next few weeks x


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## K jade

Welcome Lonytoon . Nice to have new 'faces' on here. 
I laughed at your signature! mine reads similar  .  
tell me about it. I was never particularly good at science at school.  well that's completely turned on its head now! I could do a phd in this stuff. like you me and DH don't really talk about all this on a day-to- day basis otherwise it would be too overwhelming. 

bippy so sorry I only just saw in your last post that another of your friends got a  positive. that sucks! sorry to be blunt. hope all is going well with you. you must be transferring soon?

happy ambler any news from your end?

Apples if your out there drop us a line. would be lovely to hear how things are going

Hi to everyone else - IceCat, Nothern, Rubyring, Iceandfire.  

K XX


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## Loonytoon

K jade, ha ha - snap! 

Just putting it out there, if anyone would like to be a ******** friend of mine, then I can almost certainly guarantee you a pregnancy! My feed suuuuuuuucks!


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## K jade

oh gosh. well ive more or less come off it for that reason! if nothing else I  really don't wanna see random scan pics of peoples insides . its so distasteful . Id never post something of that content even if I did get a bfp. I think so many people don't stop to think about what they are doing , they just do it to follow the crowd
x


----------



## hkd

Hi ladies,

May I please to join?

I did my 2nd hcg test (5wk+3) and it only increased from 154 to 256 in 5 days and my clinic just confirmed I'm having miscarriage. They instructed me to stop medication.  When I went to do the blood test this morning, I wasn't expecting my day would end like this. I'm sobbing but surprisingly calm otherwise.  I'm telling myself what I need to do next, which clinic I need to go next etc.

After the 1st failed DE cycle, I insisted my clinic to do all possible tests I could do.  I did many blood tests to see any infection or coagulation diseases, hysteroscopy, endo culture biopsy, NK biopsy, and ERA.  My ERA came back with pre receptive, but all other tests came back normal.  We adjusted transfer day according to ERA result. I finally got BFP but ended up with miscarriage.  This time I transferred 2 embryos (2AA and 4BB) but none made it...  Before ICSI we made sure my DH sperm and donor's egg are genetically okay.

I feel like I'm out of option...  I don't have any frozen embryos left.  I'm not sure if I should stick with my current clinic in Spain or go somewhere. Since it's my body not keeping embryo growing, so it's probably not clinic to blame.

With my ethnic background and if I want to have DE with my ethnicity, my options are limited, my current clinic, IVF Spain Alicante, maybe Vistahermosa, and Miracle IVF in Cyprus.  DH is caucasian and I told him I wouldn't mind to have 100% caucasian baby if our chance to have a baby increase, but he is a bit reluctant about it.  NewLife and Serum are my choice too although they don't have donors with my ethnicity.

Dear ladies, how did you choose your clinic??


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## Loonytoon

Good evening everyone. Hope the Sunday gear hasn’t set in 🙁

Hkd, welcome, im new here too!  I’ve only been with two clinics but have had meetings with a good few. In general I make my decision based on good reputation of lab, nice coordinators and generally the vibe I get during consult. And of course cost!  I also read a few of the forums on here to see what people had said. I’m with Gennet for a long time, like you have had many investigations but I’m sticking with them. My doc is interested and determined and my coordinator is brilliant but I’m in ireland and do the ‘irish package’ snd think that duo are exclusive to irish patients. I’ve had Skype call with serum and they rated highly for us too. Had other appointments but just didn’t seem to get a good vibe off of them, offered nothing new and often at higher prices than Prague. 
One thing I would suggest is possibly repeating the ERA with the adjusted progesterone protocol to see if it has in actual fact made your lining receptive. If you read back through here you’ll find lots on ERA.


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## K jade

Hkd  so sorry about your mc 

Personally,  if your looking for a new clinic  I would go to New Life in Greece.  They would be my 1st choice if i was doing DE with husbands sperm. They aren't the cheapest (although probably cheaper than spain) but they seem to be having excellent success rates right now .
Serum also have a long standing excellent reputation. 
Another less popular 1 is Iakentro. Also a Greek clinic with great results.
Not sure what it is with Spain but there seems to be a fair few unhappy customers of Spanish clinics lately. 

Back from hols yesterday so just a quickie from me.  Will type proper reply tomorrow 
Kjxxx


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## hkd

Loonytoon - I've been wondering about my Progesterone level. I did blood test to measure my progesterone right before my transfer on the 1st cycle but not on the 2ND transfer. I don't know maybe they assumed my progesterone level was okay. My Progesterone level was 18.8 in June when I did many other blood tests. 2wks after this 2nd transfer,  the level was 9.8 with hcg 154. Although Dr said the level looked good, I was a bit worried. Wasn't this a bit lower?? 

Kjade - hope your holiday was great. Yes, newlife is cheaper than my clinic in Spain. One reason I don't think I can continue with my clinic is price. I'm communicating with a few clinics. Cyprus looks good and cheaper than Greece but getting there seems more expensive and bit hectic.


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## K jade

HKD sorry I missed the part about your ethnicity
Yes, Cyprus will possibly have a matching egg donor. Customers are  completely polar divided about Cyprus  though  them some raving about the place  others saying stay away .
From feedback on here Newlife is an excellent clinic. Can you compromise by getting a good match colouring wise even it means compromising on your actual ethnicity? In Greece they are bound to have lots of darker donors with brown eyes /back hair? It’s a tough one isn’t it. Hope you come to a decision that your at peace with. You definitely wouldn’t be the 1st to use a donor of a different ethnicity if that’s what you decide to do. 

Well I’m back from holiday all was lovely apart from 2 days of sickness. Dp thought it was the sangria but I had 2 glasses! I guess that’s what happens when you don’t really drink anymore. 
Gearing up for Januarys transfer. How much hope do I have? That’ll be about zero!


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## hkd

K jade, I don't remember if you are doing OE or DE in January, but let's have some hope for the coming year, at least even a little bit   

I booked a skype consultation with NL at the end of this month.  DH and I probably will go to NL for our treatment, but I'm still not 100% sure if I'm making a right decision to go for a different ethnic donor.  I do want to become a mother and I know I'll love my baby even she/he doesn't have any resemblance of me.  What I'm worrying is my child future because we'll move to my country sometime in the future. I'm sure my family and other people will see how different we are and it's not gonna be easy for my family to accept what I've done. A child probably will receive mean comments from other kids.  I feel I'm too selfish to do this, but I want to choose the clinic which could give me the highest chance to become a mother.  We seriously looked into Cyprus clinics but those extreme mixed reviews and some aspects of Cyprus clinics made us decide not to go there.


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## Northern

Just popping in, Bippy, did you have your transfer??  If I've worked it out right you must be about halfway through tww about now, are you doing ok?  How was your lining in the end?  I've not been on here quite so much but still thinking of you and wondering how you are!  

We're doing ok thanks, I've had a lot of ups and downs the last few months (a lot of downs) but I'm ok at the moment.  All still on hold for us due to ever-complicated stuff with dp's kids - without going into detail there's a bit going on and it just wouldn't be a good idea to push forwards at the moment - I've had a lot of wobbles and struggled a bit but seem to have settled down for now and am surviving.  Will see what the new year brings.

Hkd, Loonytoon, Icecat and Iceandfire welcome, sorry I'm not here so much but am still reading and wishing you all well, sorry you find yourselves here.  It's a lonely place but I've found amazing support from the lovely ladies here! 

Hkd so sorry for your miscarriage    my best advice with choosing clinics is to compare all the facts - in a spreadsheet or notebook or something - and weigh up all the pros and cons to see if they're still an option.  The other thing I would say is to go with your gut - if something doesn't feel right don't push yourself with it. 
For us it mainly came down to budget - I think in hindsight there are always things I might have done differently but we were always pretty happy with Gennet.  Just wish it had worked! 

Xxx


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## K jade

hkd what a really tough dilemma for you.   I can understand why your feeling so torn. 
FWIW there is a lady from this thread who  just had twins through TM Cyprus and used them because she also needed a particular ethnic match  , needless to say, was very happy with her experience there.  so whilst I agree there does seem to be a lot of mixed reviews about Cyprus it certainly does have its happy customers. 
Any possibility of trying Cyprus 1st with donor of your choice, then if no luck then move onto NL?

Northern so sorry there is no further movement. this situation sounds so frustrating. as much as it would be lovely to have step kids I do count myself lucky at times that I do not. 
I hope you can move forward soon. sometimes you just have to bide your time with all this. Ive had so many times on this journey where I've had to do that.


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## rubyring

Hi everyone, sorry I've not been here for a bit. I hope everyone's doing OK?
I've been researching clinics for weeks now it seems! I've just written a post on the over 50s thread about everything I've found out, so please take a look if you're interested. It's been quite interesting, but exhausting. As for Team Miracle, I wouldn't go there. There are plenty of other clinics in Cyprus which look better, though it's so hard to tell from afar. As in not just Team Miracle and Dogus.
I remember being keen on New Life in Greece, they look good and I love going to Greece! But I was already getting near to 50 and was advised Spain was a bit more flexible about age (51st birthday)


As for everything else, I'm not at all ready for Christmas!!! Anyone else


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## K jade

Ruby id be more inclined to stick with Spain. What is the name of the clinic which goes up to 54? that sounds like hands down the best option 

ha as for Christmas DH and I are turning it into a very selfish affair. we are not buying presents as we simply cant afford to. and we are spending the day together just the 2 of us. actually looking forward to it for a change!
xx


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## bippy11

Hi Lovely ladies, 

Im really sorry for not keeping up on here. Things are not so good for me. We had another negative on Saturday. It was hard because I thought it might have worked, had a few symptons and it did seem to be a slight chemical, but didn't stick.  
I think I have really hit rock bottom now, feel completely lost and scared and as if this is not going to happen and it hurts so much because I just so badly want our little baby. 
We have started looking in to surrogacy because after 8 transfers and 11 embryos incl 6 PGS screened, we are starting to think that there maybe something wrong with me so that I can't get / stay pregnant and science and doctors just can't pinpoint what it is and fix it. 
I am really struggling with dealing with letting go of being pregnant and giving birth to our baby and breastfeeding.. I have always wanted all that so much. But if by letting go of that we can have a chance of having our baby, then it would be worth it even if it hurts. 
And then there is the scary thing that it might not work with a surrogate and we might not even be able to find one. I think we would try in the UK, but it seems it may take a long time to find a surrogate here, or worse not be able to find one at all. I have contacted the agencies this morning. One has already come back to say that they are not taking on new people due to shortage of surrogates. 
I have also booked a consultation with Penny in Serum after hearing so much positive about her / serum. We feel it's time for another opinion. But to be honest we've tried everything and our Dr is very good, so I don't think it's that there is something drastically different that we can try that would make the difference. 

Sorry to be so down, just thought I should pop on here to give you all an update. 

Northern - so sorry to hear that DHs kids are throwing such a spanner in the works with your adoption process, that must be so hard for you. Sending you so many hugs   xxx

kjade we're the same for Christmas, have agreed no presents with most people this year and are just spending it the two of us - for the first time ever and I am looking forward to it. We are giving each-other a new lampshade for the kitchen, proper middle-age present!   I am actually excited about that, our current lighting is an awful old striplight. 

Big hugs to you all   xxx


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## K jade

oh honey     . I had just this minute been wandering how you were getting on. im so so sorry. 

your right its time to change something, particularly as you have always been with same clinic. Firstly contacting Penny is a good move. It may simply be that this clinic is just not getting it right for you through no fault of their own. lots and lots of women go to Penny when they feel completely hopeless and out of options and get their baby. 

surrogacy (far too complex for me as already using DS) is something Id jump on if we were using OE/OS so I completely understand how that is something your looking into and seriously considering. (BTW you can  breastfeed  if you have a baby via surrogacy ). There is the option of Ukraine/ Georgia as commercial surrogacy is legal there. the problem in UK is that only altruistic  surrogacy is permitted making women willing to do it few and far between. obviously only you know what is right for you and what your finances can stretch to. 

sometimes when something is not working its time to make a drastic change. even if you cannot pinpoint exactly what's going wrong. for me its changing clinics and using DE. A change of tactics and completely turn things around in IVF. even if like you said , you need to let go of something that was important to you. 

xmas sounds fab. we are giving each other a new sofa and carpet. from the January sales!


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## bippy11

Thank you kjade    
I just feel overwhelmed and hopeless and crying a lot.  
I didn't know you could breastfeed if you don't give birth, there is a lot I don't know about surrogacy, I've only just started looking in to it. I don't think I would be comfortable with the ethics of going to Ukraine / Georgia for a commercial surrogate, I think for us it would have to be an altruistic UK surrogate. But there is still so much to think and learn about all this, it's hard to muster up the energy right now. 
I really hope changing clinics and switching to DE will work out for you hun. 
Haha, glad we're not the only ones going for middle-age presents! I'm sure it will be exciting for you to get new sofa and carpet - how are you getting on in your new house? 
x


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## Northern

Oh no Bippy    devastated for you, I'm so so sorry     
Wish I could send you words of comfort but I know there aren't any that are enough.  
I think you're right to be looking at other options and definitely getting second opinions - Serum sounds like a really good move just to get another view or if they think there's anything that would be worth trying, would be interesting to hear what they say. 
Don't let yourself get drawn into anything too soon, take your time to look after yourself and research and think and let it all sink in, and next steps will show themselves in time. 

We're the same for Christmas - giving ourselves 'decorating the attic bedroom' which has been uncarpeted and just a store for all my junk since we moved in.  Got to do the whole family thing for Christmas/Boxing Day but it shouldn't be too bad and can hopefully manage a few quiet days at home, fingers crossed. 

Xxxx


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## bippy11

Thank you Northern xx
Yes your're right, I need to take a step back. It's been non-stop treatment this year, I've been on medication constantly for the last 4 months, so really need a break from it. 
Well seems we'll all at least have improved homes in the new year!   Hope you get some quiet time for yourselves too.   x


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## rubyring

Bippy - I'm so so sorry about your BFN, they always hurt so much I know    Take care of yourselves.
I don't know anything about surrogacy, I don't think it's for us. As for Serum, I seriously thought about going there when I was still young enough but for some reason never did. Definitely worth a consultation though. And I would have thought time for a change of clinic anyway? I don't know which clinic you are at? I think even just a slight change of medication or plan can suit better than another, all the places I've been seem to have done things slightly differently. I think my 1st Spanish clinic (Vista Hermosa) was better for me than the 2nd, maybe their plan fitted me better? Or maybe the PGS the second one did unsettled the embryos too much, as they weren't ready on day 5, had to wait to day 6. Or maybe I was just luckier at the first one, they did get me pregnant even if it didn't last. Who knows.


Everyone else, I'm loving the middle aged house presents! I'm so looking forward to a few days with my DH and other family. We're also celebrating my Dad's 80th just after Xmas, his birthday was earlier this month. It seems not so long ago we were celebrating my 2 long lived grandparent's 90th (the other 2 didn't live to very old age and one I never knew). Makes me realise my grandparents were so much younger when they had my parents, and my parents were in their 20s when they had me   
Take care everyone and hope you enjoy some peaceful times x


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## K jade

I know a little about surrogacy . a lady on here is actively perusing it, and I have looked into it myself but its probably a bit premature for me. and overly complex as already using donor gametes.  I would go down the surrogacy route if it was an possibility  for me. I think its  a good option for women with unexplained RIF/RMC. 
women can and do use surrogates in the UK . but I believe that 99% of women who use UK surrogates use a family member or friend. its difficult to find an unknown altruistic one. although has been done before. under UK if the surro changes her mind after birth and wants to keep the baby, she can. although COTS and surro UK say this has never happened before with any cases they have on their books. 
many go to Ukraine and Georgia as  intended parents have  rights plus, the agency find the surrogate and oversee her care. its costly but no more so than repeated cycles of ivf. 
unlike the UK there is no searching yourself and having to 'hot house' friendships at meet ups in the hope the potential surrogate chooses you . 
the US is another option I believe that surrogacy is very well regulated there with good care for the surros and full rights for the intended parents.  however your looking at a 6 figure payment. 
Bippy I hope you find the option that's best for you IF you go down that route. 
of course contact penny 1st and see what she thinks. I imagine you completely want to exhaust the possibility of carrying yourself before persuing  surrogacy. 

sorry have to dash but sending love to all. xx


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## K jade

just coming on quick to wish all you amazing PP ladies a peaceful + restful  Christmas. 
I hope next year they'll be at least one of us (hopefully more) on this thread who has their long awaited LO. 
I'm facing my 8th Christmas TTC. I'm pretty stunned that I've managed to keep hope  alive over the years tbh! starting to wander if i'm slightly deluded  
anyway sending  you all lots of love 
KJ xxxx


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## Molly87

Hi all,

You may remember I posted a few times this summer. 

So I’m currently 9dp5dt on my 3rd fresh cycle. This time I really thought it would happen for us. We got less eggs than cycle 2 but a higher fertilisation rate and I had 2 blastocysts transferred. One was hatching and graded 5ab! But AF has arrived and although OTD is Boxing Day I know it’s over 😞

I just don’t know what to do next. That is our 3 NHS cycles done. We got no frozen this time. There’s a chance we may get a free cycle as the embroyscope failed briefly on cycle 2. But even so I’m losing my faith in my clinic. I feel they have a one system fits all kind of view and when it doesn’t work nothing seems to change. I had the NK cell biopsy and that was fine.

I feel truly devastated. We’ve now had 5 good quality embryos transferred and not even the tiniest hint of a BFP. We are using DS as husband has azoospermia. So the fact we are facing this has come as a real smack in the face! I’m terrified I won’t ever be able to carry a child and at a loss as to what to try next. 

I know you lovely people will understand the pain I’m going through. I don’t know if any of you have any ideas as to what we could try next? xx


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## K jade

Molly I'd been wandering how you were getting on being a fellow NOA lady myself . 
I'm so so sorry hun 
Work manic right now but soon as I catch a break I'll respond properly


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## hkd

Molly I'm so sorry what you've been going through and your AF arrived on the eve of Xmas. 
I'm not an expert but does your AF normally come even you are taking medications? Are there any possibilities that is not AF? 
After my previous BFN, I had a lot of tests done and everything came back normal except ERA. ERA came back with pre receptive. My last cycle I got BFP after adjusting transfer day but it ended up with ectopic. 
I'd recommend ERA if you haven't done it before.
Sending you lots of hugs


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## K jade

Molly huge coming your way 
I can totally relate to the desolation u feel. We all can. 
I take it from your username that your only 31? 
Interestingly I was told by my consultant that my massive string of bfns would make total sense had DP actually _had_ sperm retrieved and we were using that. The fact i'd used sprightly donor sperm was utterly baffling and ironic to her. 
You say u went to quenby / brosens? Your results were normal I take it? 
ERA is an option. As is the Chicago immune tests. And of course changing clinic.... 
Right now take some time to re group ready to attack 2019.
When I finished my NHS cycles I re- framed it as a blessing in disguise as whatever they were doing clearly wasn't working for me. 
Be kind to your self too. NOA is horrendous. RIF even worse. I know how it feels to strike the dud end of a deal twice in a row. U are not alone xxxxx


----------



## Molly87

Hkd - I’ve bled at exactly 6dp5dt every cycle. My progesterone was upped this time but hasn’t made a difference other than maybe holding the bleeding an extra day. The only difference this time has been the awful cramps I’ve had to accompany it! I’ll definitely look into ERA thanks. 

KJade - yes I think the doctors are at a loss! They pretty much guaranteed me a baby in my 3 ivf cycles! Everything was going for me - I have a high AMH and no obvious fertility issues but clearly that isn’t everything. I remember last Christmas my doctor saying enjoy your last Christmas alone. Yet I’m sat here alone again! ERA sounds like something to look at and I definitely think a change of clinic is in order. Something needs to change! My NK cell biopsy was fine but I’ll admit I only had one when they recommend 2. xx


----------



## K jade

Molly I can sooo relate 
Years ago when I first embarked on treatment my consultant went through what I was entitled to on the NHS.  3 iui then 3 ivf.  She literally burst out laughing and said you won't need all that!  
Well here I am. 
I too only had the 1 quenby biopsy as it was normal. He gave the impression nothing was wrong with me and it would definitely happen for me with persistence. 
Clearly I don't have that 'infertile' look about me as Drs all seem very surprised at my history . Obviously I've got a really fertile face!  
I'm pretty sure my failures are down to my tnfa and awful transfers. Although why those 2 things stopped the show entirely I'm not sure  
My ex clinic also hold the lowest success rate in the UK according to hfea HOWEVER nearly everyone I know who's cycled there is pregnant or got a take home baby so I think it may be a case that they don't complete their returns properly.
Hang in there.
Am I right in thinking that you'll need to self fund further cycles? If so do consider abroad. Your looking at athe least 2k less including flights and accommodation . 
Hope u had an OK Christmas nethertheless.  It must have been such a blow getting that bfn 

Hope every1 had a nice Xmas. Ours was lovely and quiet and had an unexpected gift from dps parents who want to buy us a holiday in spring . Only to West wales but we love it there and could not afford it otherwise. 

Bippy how are u hun?


----------



## Molly87

So got the official BFN today. Mother in law just text to say they were thinking of coming over with my brother in law, his wife and their son. I just went in to complete meltdown. I may have overreacted but I just can’t deal with what I can’t have being rubbed in my face today. Please tell me this is normal and I’m not being completely selfish?? I just need some me time today!

Yes we will need to self fund. We may get a free cycle, they hinted at it if we didn’t get pregnant next time but don’t think they actually thought they would need to worry about it! We will try though although I do want to move clinics. Think I’ll pay for a consultation somewhere else anyway. What is strange is that I bleed on exactly the same day each cycle. The morning of day 6 it starts! xx


----------



## Molly87

I could have had 6 IUIs first but they told us to bypass those as 3 IVFs would easily give us a baby!!! 🙄 this cycle was pretty textbook perfect. My numbers weren’t amazing but I got a lovely hatching blastocyst and a really smooth transfer. I just do not get it!! xx


----------



## hkd

Molly, I'm sorry for BFN    You are definitely not selfish at all!! Ask your DH to tell in laws not to come today. He can make up with whatever reasons. I wouldn't want to face anyone or worse entertain anyone.

Many oversea clinics offer free consultations. Are you considering overseas?


----------



## Molly87

The overseas thing is slightly overwhelming at the moment but I’m open to all options! Not sure how going abroad will fit in with work etc? 

My husband has been great. MIL has been told we want a quiet day together and she has been absolutely fine about it so crisis averted! Very over dramatic on my part but it’s a bad day today! xx


----------



## K jade

Totally normal Molly 
My brother and g/f had a baby in August I haven't even met him yet.
It just seemed wrong as they'd only been going out 5 minutes. Fertiles are living in a different universe. To me it's like being able to click your fingers everytime you fancy a lottery win. Totally unfathomable. 
Please put your needs 1st. They got what they wanted and don't feel a smidgen of the heartache you are having to go through. 
Best thing to do is focus on next step. Otherwise you overwhelm yourself. When is your follow up? Prepare a list of questions . 
Also do you have a copy of is your body baby friendly?  If not I'd get hold of 1. It's my bible when it comes to implantation failure


----------



## K jade

just checking in to say happy new year to all of you !!
hope we all finally get our dreams fulfilled in 2019

im off to brno on the 17th Jan for transfer. am currently on steroids, clexane, progynova, aspirin and having 2 intralipids this time instead of 1. 
ive booked my flights on the assumption that my lining WILL play ball - scan is not till next Thursday. But I really couldn't risk the flights being all booked up, or losing the hotel. 
will just have to risk it for a biscuit as they say. 

how is everyone? hope you all had a relaxing time off 
x


----------



## hkd

k jade, I'm sooooo excited for you and wishing you this transfer is the one to bring you BFP   

On the 17th, I'll be having a consultation with Newlife.  DH and I decided not to go to Cyprus (at least for this time). My miscarriage turned out to be ectopic and I needed to inject methotrexate twice. It seems like I need to wait for a few cycles before starting a treatment.    We'll see what Newlife says, hope not longer. I'm thinking about contacting Gennet. I've heard there is 2-4 months wait at Gennet but hey anyway I've got to wait for methotrexate wearing off.

Hope you and everyone had a good holiday


----------



## bippy11

Hi everyone, happy new year.  

kjade excellent news you've got a date booked. You lining better play ball!   xx how are you feeling on the medications so far? 

hkd so sorry to hear about your ectopic and the delay that is now putting on things.   It's great you've got the consultation booked in for the 17th, then at least you can get their thoughts on timeline etc. xx

Molly so sorry about your BFN, I hope you had a bit of time out over the Christmas / New Year period   How are you doing? xx

Sorry I've not been on much over the last few weeks, hope you all got some time to rest and enjoy yourselves a bit, it can be a difficult time of year for us people with fertility issues. 

We're booked to go to Serum for a hysteroscopy on Monday 21st Jan. We will have some time on the Sunday to check out Athens a bit, should be fun - we'll go to the Acropolis and my lovely greek friend is preparing some tips for us  We are planning to do one more transfer after that (depending of course what the outcome is). After that we will see whether we turn to surrogacy or what we do. 

I feel like 2019 may be our last year of this. I just can't do it anymore, I need to move on with life and DH agrees. I think treatment will end for us this year, I hope with a baby but I am losing faith, but one way or another things need to change!


----------



## K jade

hkd  pleased to hear  you are going with Newlife. they are an excellent clinic by all accounts. lots of success there recently.  As are Gennet. I don't think you can go wrong with either of them. 
sorry about your ectopic . that sounds awful. 

Bippy im so glad you are going to serum. I have every faith Penny can work her magic for you. I think you are making a good move here. fresh eyes and fresh perspective. Penny is also excellent with lining and uterine issues. 
have you had the hidden C tests done before?

I know what you mean I also felt this year something significant has to happen as cant go on like this. I've been off contraception now for 10 years, I've never had a pregnancy and sometimes wander if, immune issues aside, my body just doesn't have that 'blueprint' most women have. who knows. 
right now im giving it another bash though !

xx


----------



## bippy11

Thanks kjade, I hope she can find something that hasn't been found yet, well see.. yes I've had the hidden c test done, but we will repeat it along with other infection tests as we're there and they can take a sample during the hysteroscopy. 

Have you had a scan yet - how is your lining looking? x


----------



## bippy11

just met up with my greek friend and got some excellent insider Athens tips so quite excited now - just wish we had a bit longer there!


----------



## K jade

Bippy my lining was 9.7 triple lined. 
Very pleased with that I'm exceptionally lucky on the lining front. Only thing that works ! 
There are many ladies on FF  past and present that literally nothing worked for until they tried serum histo.
One lady who pmd me had had 17 cycles before she went to serum and got twins 
Xx


----------



## hkd

kjade, wow!! your lining is amazing!! have a safe trip to Brno tomorrow and very good luck on your transfer! I'll be thinking of you  

bippy, you're flying to Athens this weekend right. I also did hysteroscopy and biopsy tests (@clinic in Spain) which came back all normal but it gave me some reassurance.  Hope the weather got milder there    Enjoy Athens!! XX


----------



## hkd

Sorry kjade, not tomorrow, I meant the 17th


----------



## Northern

Hi ladies, sorry I've been a bit absent! 
Bippy, so glad you're making plans and looking forward to Greece, they have such good success and with complicated cases too, I really hope they have some suggestions for you, look forward to seeing what they say.  Enjoy Athens while you're there too, hope the sun is out for you!  Safe travels and let us know how you get on xxx

Kjade got everything crossed for you in next few days, I think you'll love Czech Republic   I'm so excited for you haha xx 

hkd is it your consultation today? 


Has anyone heard from Apples??  I messaged her a few weeks ago but no reply as yet - her baby was due in December but I haven't heard anything.  Hoping everything's ok and she's just overwhelmed with love and not had chance to update us xxx


----------



## K jade

Thanks northern little bit nervous but need to remind myself I've travelled alone before many times.
Just not for a few years! 
Just got to airport no issues getting needles through so was releived bout that . Beautiful sunny day down bristol way. Hope it's the same in Czech. 

I haven't heard from her either .u messaged her through FF?  Gosh I hope all is OK.  Hopefully she just hasn't had the chance to log on to FF so not seen the messages 
Apples if your out there sending you some FF love !


----------



## K jade

Girls am here safe

So if anyone sees this kindly let everyone know that I'm not missing in action .
Journey very smooth and stress free
Czech beautiful so are the people 
I'm in at 11.00 for transfer . Having intralipids afterwards which is good as I despise transfer but don't mind being hooked up to a drop too much . So pleased to get the worst part over with.
Not sure what I'm gonna do afterwards
We,ll see what tomorrow has in store xx


----------



## Northern

Glad you’re there ok! Have copied your post to [email protected] thanks for updating us! 
Czech is great isn’t it I knew you’d love it, never been to Brno but heard it’s lovely, hope you get chance to look round tomorrow. 
Lots of luck for your transfer we’ll all be thinking of you x x x


----------



## Northern

Good luck today kjade- gaaarrggh just read your post on the reprofit thread omg the stress but glad they could open the safe in the end! Hope the rest of the day goes more smoothly! 
Xx


----------



## K jade

OMG northern that was awful
I have no words for how stressful that was  
I asked the man if worse comes to worse can someone come out with a saw
He just looked at me like I was a loon


----------



## mattysmrs

Good luck Kjade. I've followed your journey and literally have goosebumps for you. I have a feeling this will definitely be your time. Don't worry about the Uterogestan. I still take my morning dose before transfer and they just wash my cervix with saline if they have to. Thinking of you.


----------



## K jade

Aw mattymrs thank u that's so kind
well I'm done and dusted
Blast thawed well and was expanding
Transfer went like a dream. It literally took 3 minutes and totally painless unlike before when they took half hour  and I was completely butchered. 

If anyone is having bad transfers  insist they try with empty bladder .

Had lipids afterwards 
Got tram back
Will probably have a look round the town in a min 
Xx


----------



## hkd

kjade, congratulations!! I'm glad your transfer went smoothly, especially after your morning ordeals.  I've done both full bladder and empty bladder transfer.  Does it really make any difference?  Did you transfer 1 or 2?  Enjoy strolling around the town!

northern, how are you doing?  yes, I had a great consultation with newlife. I was very impressed with their thoroughness and I could tell their goal is not just "pregnant" but "giving birth". DH and I felt we did find the clinic.  Unfortunately, because I had methotrexate injections, the clinic told me to wait for 6 months to do the transfer      I was hoping to be told 3 months..aahhh  June is soooo far away.

this morning I went to do another hcg test (technically might be still pregnant with like hcg 6). I saw so many moms with babies and toddlers while waiting. Literally they were all around me!! I was kinda tearing up and wondered if I'd ever worry about my baby being sick etc. Off to a short holiday to Italy tomorrow so at least it distracts me for a few days.

bippy, are you all set for Greece? Thinking of you


----------



## K jade

Hkd I'm so sorry you've encountered another delay 
I've had so many on my journey and still plugging away . I tried to use the time to get healthy or distract myself with something else etc but it's so dam frustrating . Babies and preg women are literally everywhere when your TTC . 
On a positive note you have made a great choice with new life . They really are excellent judging from the success I've seen on here. Fingers crossed they come through for you. 
Yeh for me transfers with full bladder are hell.
I must have a very tilted uterus already I guess. I just had the 1 transferred. Really I wanted 2 but money was tight . If I come back I may go for 2 . 
Loved the clinic .
So clean and efficient . Bit of a change from old NHS lol

Bippy hope your looking forward to Athens.
It's nice being away for treatment. I had a few dramas due to being a 1st timer but it's still more relaxing than being in uk


----------



## bippy11

Hi everyone, Kjade, HKD, Northen, thank you. Off to Greece (gotta leave in 15 mins, still need to pack the last bits!) So super quick, but kjade just had to say congrats on successful transfer, sorry to hear there was stress, but crossing everything this is the one for you!   xxx

HKD so sorry about the long wait you've got infront of you. I can understand that must be a real blow. xx

Northern, lots of love xx

Sorry not been on much, been so busy, but will try to find time to catch up when were back from Athens! x


----------



## K jade

Bippy hope u arrived safe
All the best for your hysto . Excited for u meeting the famous penny. Look forward to the updates

Im back safe and now  4dp5dt
Hating it as usual. 2wws never end well for me so it's been hard to keep positive 
I think all I can say is I've really given this my all 
X


----------



## hkd

bippy, how was Athens?  Hope your hysteroscopy went well.  Were you under anesthetic?  Have a safe journey back home  

kjade, this is it! 2019 is your year! but I know it's hard to be positive. When is your OTD?  I always wait until OTD to test it but do you?

Official AF finally arrived, so I'm just counting months (not days   ) for my transfer.


----------



## K jade

Thanks hkd. OTD is the 1st ...  nawt really feeling it. Think it's probably another dud.
If this doesn't go my way I'm really thinking there's some serious immunological stuff going on and I need to really push the boat out and go to someone like bravermann in the USA... 
Blxxdy useless uterus that can't implant anything . 
How the hell did I end up with 1 of these? 
Sorry just need to rant about my [email protected] body .it definitely makes me feel better   

Xx


----------



## hkd

ooooo kjade        Vent away as much as and as long as you want.  We are here for each other in good days or bad days. I'm sure your DH is very supportive but not having "a baby holding room" in his body, you may feel like he can't understand your frustration. So let it out gal. sometimes hitting hard on your keyboard makes you feel a bit better    sending you big hugs


----------



## IceAndFire

Hi, I want to ask you girls about some advice because I just don’t  know what to do. 

I will try to keep it short. We have MFI (Obstructive Azoospermia) and unfortunately the motility and morphology is not good. My husband had already 2 testicle aspiration (used for first cycle of ivf) and then testicle extraction (used for our second ivf). I had those cycle in two different clinics in different countries. None of the clinics found any issues regarding me. I have regular menstual cycles, I ovulate, I don’t have problems with the lining. 

I had a lot of eggs retrieved during each cycle (All of the information in my signature) but we always end up with 3 blastocysts. All of the transfers from the first cycle were done in natural cycles. The first one only with progesterone BFN, second without any medication- blighted ovum removed at 7 weeks 5 days (no spotting, no bleeding). Third transfer BFN (no medication). We changed clinic and my first transfer from the second ivf cycle BFN (estrogen and progesterone). I never had issues with my lining before but during the estrogen stimulation it had a problem to grow. They needed to change the dosages for higher. 

I still have 2 good early blastocysts left. I wanted to transfer them both. My clinic gave me a new protocol with 5 types of medications. In some of the days I would have to take 10 pills per day plus put a cream on myself. 
I declined and said I want to do some tests to see if all of that is needed. They said that they recommended to do ERA test. I have no idea what to do. It just doesn’t make sens to me.


----------



## K jade

IceandFire unlimitly its up to you
either plough ahead with a new cycle on the protocol they have suggested , or hold off and do things like immunes testing and / or ERA. 
tbh I went down the route of having loads of testing. and I'm not sure really now if it was money well spent. I think perhaps I should have used that money and just done more cycles. 
at least with a cycle you stand a chance of getting pregnant whereas i'm starting to think all this immune/ era stuff leaves you even more confused and out of pocket

hdk ha ha thank you!
6dp5dt and feeling as miserable as ever . like all of us on here im just desperate for something to implant. I have no faith in my so called uterus right now.... maybe itll surprise me x


----------



## hkd

IceandFire, if my understanding is correct, ERA is to see your endo is receptive. but you had BFP before so I assume the timing of transfer was correct. After my BFN, I did ERA and came back 48 hours pre-receptive so I needed to be on progesterone additional 48 hours before transfer. I ended up with having an ectopic but the doctor believed that timing was correct.  I'm not sure if you need ERA.

you said you have 2 good early blasts, you mean 3 day or 5 day embryos?  If they are 5 days and if you haven't done a lot of tests, having some tests may give you some answers, but as Kjade said it might confuse you more.  I did a lot of blood tests, endo biopsy for infectious diseases and NK, hysteroscopy and ERA.  Everything came back normal/negative, except pre-receptive on ERA. but still I got ectopic because of possible defective fallopian tube. I'm wondering and a bit frustrated why this defective tube wasn't detected during the tests.  sorry not giving you helpful advice and probably confused you more.

kjade, hahaha we should give our so called uterus a new name    What shall I name my defective fallopian tube(which sucked my embies up into the tube)??  I think this freezing weather contributes miserable feeling. stay warm!!

bippy, how are you doing??


----------



## bippy11

Hi ladies, 

kjade how are you doing?? the 2ww is so hard, hang in there! day by day and you will get there. When are you testing? hoping and wishing for you hun xx    

hkd how are you? It's so hard when you have to re-adjust to wait months instead of weeks. Hopefully you can find a way to enjoy a bit of a break from treatment, although I know I have struggled with that in the past when all you really want to do is get on with it. xx

IceandFire it's so difficult to know what to do. In the early days we steered away from spending too much money on loads of tests, but when it keeps going wrong, you then think you should investigate if you can find out the underlying reason for it and by now we have done quite a few tests.. there seem to be a never ending stream of tests that you can do! The problem with ERA is that I don't know how much scientific evidence there is behind it, it hasn't been opened up to proper scientific scrutiny by the clinic that 'invented' it. Saying that, I had it done, in a way as something to tick off the 'what could be wrong' list. Perhaps it will make you feel better to have done it instead of wondering what if.. But of course it costs time and money. There was an interesting article on IVF babble recently about how issues with sperm DNA can affect embryos. xx

AFM - we had a good time in Athens for the touristy part - loved Acropolis!  Treatment part was perhaps not as fun! Hysteroscopy showed some inflammation spots and a lot of dead tissue.. they made a deep cut, so we will if that makes a difference. We also got talked in to doing a DQA test - which has shown that we have a partial 50% match. They have recommended LIT for it. Which I have always considered as quite controversial, slightly witch-crafty and possibly dangerous.. so we need to do some research in to that and discuss it with our Dr. Have any of you on here ever done LIT? x


----------



## IceAndFire

Thank you for helping me out. 

I decided to not do the ERA test. We will do the next transfer in a natural cycle. It will be more tricky but we will see. 

I had an appointment with our previous clinic (where we live) about IUI with donor sperm if those two last embryos will not work. The doctor said to not think about it yet and to not lose hope and to still try ivf with my husband’s sperm. It might happen during after 3rd or 4th EC. 
He said that he doesn’t think I need ERA test since I got pregnant once in a natural cycle. He checked how was my lining during the 3 transfers in that clinic and it was always triple lined in size from 8mm to 11mm. I always had done those transfers in natural cycles. They very rarely do medicated cycles. 

I  asked last week Gennet to do the next transfer in a natural cycle but still waiting for protocol. Actually feeling quite  optimistic after talking with my previous doctor  Who knows maybe it will work one day after all.


----------



## hkd

bippy, I'm glad you enjoyed Athens    Sorry to hear about your hysteroscopy result.  I'm not familiar with neither DQA test or LIT but maybe you could ask "Hysteroscopy Athens" thread? 

IceandFire, So nice your previous doctor made you feel at ease. Who knows a natural cycle may give you a positive surprise! hope you'll hear back from Gennet soon.

kjade, hope you are doing okay there!

afm, the hardest thing is keeping my will to be a healthy eater! I work out 3-4 times a week and no booze but craving for caffeine   

stay warm and safe on the road everyone xxx


----------



## bippy11

Kjade thinking of you and really really hoping you've got your bfp     xx


----------



## hkd

kjade, praying for your BFP


----------



## Loonytoon

Sorry for my hiatus! Things not going great here at all but kjade I’m thinking of you and praying xxx


----------



## K jade

Hi ladies . Sorry for being MIA . I've had an absolutely horrendous week at work . I won't go into details as it wouldn't be right on here but I'm currently signed off and been so stressed I've been vomiting and not sleeping. 

Anyway .....my news. 
It's a BFP!!!!!!   
I'm in a total state of shock 

Will have a read back now and reply to u all properly xx


----------



## IceAndFire

K jade, wow! Congratulations!


----------



## Honeybee02

Congratulation kjade. I am so happy for you.  Wishing you best wishes, BT xx


----------



## K jade

Loony toon hope your ok   Hang in there

Bippy good to hear about your Athens adventure . LIT hmmmm....... Now that's 1 which I'm completely on the fence about.
HOWEVEr I think it's reasonably priced over in Athens. So if it were me maybe I'd chuck it in for the hell of it. I wouldn't do it in uk though with dr gorgy. He charges over a grand for it. 

Hkd hope your hanging in there with the waiting 

Iceandfire thank u. 
Glad u came to a decision . Fingers crossed for your next X fer xxx

Honeybee thank u xxx


----------



## bippy11

Kjade!!! That's wonderful news! Congratulations hun, so happy for you!!! wow this calls for some dancing bananas!             really chuffed you got there hun. 
Sorry to hear about your difficult week at work, you just take it easy and enjoy your good news xxx

Im pretty sure we are not going to do LIT after researching it and discussing it with our Dr.


----------



## K jade

Think that's a good choice Bippy. 
OK now you've made your decision I won't mince my words. LIT  is total BS If u ask me. 
Top dog immunologist Mr Bravermann thinks it's complete [email protected]
So I'm glad your not wasting your money on it  

However would u consider gcsf? Penny uses it lots and it's got some really good results especially with ladies who struggle with lining. Gcsf was gonna be my next port of call xx


----------



## hkd

Kjade, congratulations!!!     you did it!!! I'm soooo happy for you and tearing up a bit from this fabulous news.


----------



## mattysmrs

Kjade!! What did I say!! Fantastic news. I'm so pleased for you. You and dh must be over the moon xx


----------



## K jade

Hkd and mattysmrs thank u ladies xx


----------



## Loonytoon

Kjade beyond happy for you! I hope you’re finding it easy to relax and not worry, but this is such good news!!

I’ve akso been signed off work....I think I may have finally lost the plot after all of this. But am trying v hard to pick myself back up. Have a lovely weekend everyone x


----------



## K jade

Ah loonytoon I'm so sorry. The pressure this puts on your relationship is unreal.
Well done for getting signed off work.  Have some me time. Drink tea and read magazines etc. 
That's what I'll be doing xx


----------



## IceAndFire

K jade, is it your first BFP? Did you do something differently this time? 

I finally got my protocol for the next natural FET. They still want to use progesterone, aspirin and Duphaston (Dydrogesterone). Does any of you have any experience with the last medication? Did it make any difference for you?


----------



## K jade

IceandFire TBH yeh I changed everything this time
Clinic, meds and the biggest change was switching to DE
after 6 attempts with OE I just felt they'd had their chance.
Sadly I think I'm just 1 of those women who's eggs aren't viable. And probably have never been viable.  
I haven't heard of the drug u mentioned , is it a brand of steroid? 


Hope everyone is doing ok. 
I have 7 wk scan Wednesday so pretty terrified about that but need to bite the bullet and get on with it 
Xx


----------



## IceAndFire

Thanks K jade  
Is this your first BFP? What was your FET protocol? 

No idea if it’s some kind of a steroid drug. The clinic said I can add some more progesterone instead or buy it in Czech, since it supposed to be added after the transfer. 

Good luck on your scan. Being terrified in your case it’s totally normal, you endured so much trauma already. I believe that the worry never leaves until you will finally hold you baby in your arms  after that a different kind of worries will kick in


----------



## hkd

Iceandfire, have you found out more about your medication?  When does your treatment begin?

Kjade, how did your scan go?  I hope all went well.

Bippy, how are you doing? Any updates on your treatment after hysteroscopy?

Afm, DH and I are flying to Greece next week for some tests and leaving his sample. we also received a potential donor profile. my AF is a week late (I'm not pregnant, I checked this morning) or possibly skipped AF (I'm not sure if it's possible) so I guess my body is still messed up. 4 more months to go


----------



## K jade

Scan went well. Heartbeat and all measuring on track. It was such a relief and a milestone although course still a long way to go for me. 

Hkd good luck for Greece next week. Hope u can have a nice little break too while your there. 

Ice and fire I took the usual eastrogen and progesterone as u do with medicated FET . In addition I had clexane , steroids and intralipids. 
I had had steroids and intralipids before but it hadn't worked. I had a hunch that my steroid dose was too high and my intralipid dose too low. So I asked the Reproft dr for a lower dose of steroids and more intralipids. This I feel was key for me along with having an empty bladder at transfer. Previously I'd had full and it had been a disaster. Of course I also used DE this time too. 

I have to say Reprofit are getting some astonishing results ATM. On the current thread it's just BFP after BFP. I would highly recommend them.


----------



## Pognut

I didn't know having a full or empty bladder was something that might make a difference, KJade, that's interesting - what is it that makes it matter, do you think?


----------



## K jade

Pognut for me full bladder transfers were hell. Having a full bladder completely tipped my uterus out of view and made cervix impossible to negotiate. Not to mention the pain. They took up to half an hour and cathtars had to be changed multiple times. All my full bladder transfers were disasters and I almost felt the Dr's give up halfway through.

At Reprofit Dr hanna agreed to try empty bladder. It took 3 minutes. I literally felt nothing. Xx


----------



## Pognut

Wow. Amazing - and also awful that no-one tried it before!!


----------



## MadameG

Just jumping in here to say a massive congratulations to Kjade!!!! Your name popped into my head randomly when I was sat feeding just now and I had a funny feeling that you had good news ❤ Hope you’re feeling well! xxxxxx

Wishing all you ladies love and luck xxxxxx


----------



## K jade

Aw thanks madameG how kind of u 4 for thinking of me x x

Pognut yeh I can't believe it's so 'standard' to do full bladder. Really needs reviewing as every woman is different and not all need full bladder. 

How is every1?
Bippy how u doing hun? 
Kjxx


----------



## hkd

kjade - how are you doing? you must be in like 9 or 10 weeks now?

bippy - how is everything going?

I had a good time in Greece.  Good food and good weather.  Flew to Athens from Thessaloniki to do some sightseeing.  My transfer will be most likely in July. While strolling around the city of Thessaloniki, I was looking young women (face, hair etc) and felt more comfortable to think a donor is from there.


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## K jade

Hkd glad u had a good trip to Greece. That part of Northern Greece is really beautiful. DP and I spent 3 weeks there over my 30th birthday. I would have liked to have used new life just to get the chance to go back there. Not to mention its a fantastic clinic. 
Yes I'm approx 10wks now. Had 2 scans thus far. Still doesn't feel real however. 

I feel amazed I managed to get implantation after so many failures. I hope this encourages other women on here. It CAN happen after multiple BFNs. 
I do at times wander whether us RIFers have 'choosy uterus syndrome'. It was something mentioned by professor Brosens. Our lining is so sophisticated and skilled at recognising a duff embies, however with some women the endometrium can be 'overly picky' and literally reject any embie that isn't absolute perfection. So it waits, at our emotional expense, for the absolute cream of the crop. Nothing less can do. Anyway...... Just a theory 

Hope everyone still following this thread is doing OK. 
Love kj xxxx


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## rubyring

Hi everyone, sorry I went missing for a while. This thread's gone a bit quiet, hope everyone is OK?

Kjade - massive congratulations! I've been reading now and then, and saw your excellent news. I'm glad you're now past the stage I got to, it all sounds like everything is going really well!
hkd - I always love going to Greece, such a shame it's not as cheap there as it used to be. Lovely people though. And good food and sunshine!!

AFM, I finally went for a consultation last week, and feeling weird because they've already got a donor for me. And want to get going asap! Which is all great, but I guess I'm just really scared. Realistically my journey is coming to an end which is really hard. I'm also struggling with a cold which isn't helping, maybe I picked something up while travelling. And then there's Mother's Day coming up which is always so hard for me...
Anyway, I went to a clinic highly recommended by egg donation friends, no one on FF seems to have been there. They all spoke good English and the clinic was very busy. I have to decide on the donor in the next 1 or 2 days, then pay a deposit to reserve her!


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## Northern

Hi Rubyring, I'm still here, reading away in the background but not had much to post!  Nice to hear from you, it has gone a bit quiet. 
Wow that sounds exciting and like it's all about to happen, amazing that they've already matched you with a donor, how do you feel about the match?  What country are you going to?  Guess you could be cycling really soon then.  Totally get the nerves and the feeling of the end of the journey rather than the beginning - as much as I hate limbo and waiting, I'm at the point where anything we do now feels a bit like clutching at straws and closer to admitting defeat, it's not a nice feeling.  But moving forwards is the only way, and you can only process one step at a time, try not to get too many steps ahead of yourself (that's rich from me  ) 

We've had a bit of a change of direction, we've moved away from adoption for now and back to looking at egg share.  Had a consultation booked in London on Friday which we had to postpone due to all the trains being cancelled! and not been able to reschedule until 10th May, so more waiting.  Not sure how I feel about any of it really, not been in the best place emotionally so the wait probably won't do any harm. 
Has anyone found counselling any use?  We're entitled to 5 free sessions through my work and I'm hovering around asking for it - just think it might help me process my thoughts but am a bit wary of how helpful it'd actually be. 

Ruby I'm also not looking forward to another Mothers Day - am already planning my social media ban probably starting on Friday for at least a week. 

Hope everyone else is ok xxx


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## K jade

Hi lovely ladies

Ruby fab that a donor has been found. Have u decided on her? What's the name of the clinic? I always fancied cycling somewhere hot and sunny. Think it would be nice to lie by a pool after transfer. Needless to say I couldn't do that in Czech in middle of Jan. 

Northern so pleased your heading down the egg share route. Sorry u have to wait till May though. 
Hopefully it'll all come together pretty quickly after that. As for counselling if it's free why not. I've had it at various times during my life. Some counsellors are better than others I must say. Yeh looking back it probably did help 

I know what you mean about feeling like your coming to the end /clutching at straws /final roll of the dice.
That's EXACTLY how I felt right before this last cycle. 
Hopefully good news is right round the corner for both of you. Xx


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## hkd

Hello everyone  

kjade- how are you doing?

ruby- wow congratulations. I'm sure there are great clinics out there even they're not mentioned on FF. What country is it if you don't mind me asking? You must be getting busy for arranging all travel etc. hope you'll feel better soon from your cold xxx

northern- omg was that waterloo station chaos? I'm so sorry... 10th May is sooo far!!  I'm glad to hear you found egg share option though.

afm, not much update, still waiting. My transfer will be sometime in July.  My upcoming travel destination is having measles outbreak so I need to get measles vaccinations and my clinic told me to wait at least for 3 months. 3 more months wont be too bad right     Yesterday my DH received a news from his friends that they're expecting a girl. I think the news hit us a bit hard. DH is much much younger than me and there is nothing problem on his side and his friends and cousins are having kids... I only could say, I'm sorry...to him. you know if he was with someone younger, he could have kids by now...  

Yap, mother's day ads are everywhere. Yap, it hurts.
Hugs to everyone


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## rubyring

I seem to have started some activity on the thread!   


Northern - yes I'm a bit shocked that everything is moving so quickly! I'm actually going to ask if I can delay at least a week, partly because it will be much easier to get off work and also there's just so much to organise. And I've been struggling with a cold / bad throat all week which is definitely not helping. While I was there the doc commented that I'm obviously a difficult case which has deflated me again. Of course I know that with my history. It was also just after the scan she did, which I never like and even though I had countless scans I still find them unpleasant and intrusive. So it probably upset me more because she'd just done the scan if that makes sense.
Interesting you're looking at egg share rather than adoption now. I thought adoption was the most ethical for us, but my DH wouldn't hear of it. I have to say it sounds like a very long and difficult process. Sorry your appointment got postponed - don't talk to me about the trains going into London!!


Kjade - hi! When I went there it was actually colder than here, but I think the summers are warmer than here. Can't wait for the sun!
hkd - July will come around quickly enough. It's best to be safe and sure you won't catch measles. I'm sorry about your friend's news, it's so hard I know.


With clinic choice, I was all set to go to Cyprus TM, but at the last minute it became clear the admin team and medical were splitting up and a new doctor was added or was a replacement. It was very vague. So I contacted egg donation friends and they have come up with more and different suggestions than the popular clinics on here. And recommended for my requirements. The girl there is still supporting me which is nice. So I'm hoping her suggestions work well for me. In the meantime we all have to get through Mother's Day tomorrow which just makes me feel    which is so unfair on my Mum. I'm thinking how my parents were so young having us and how I never really appreciated that, and even if this IVF somehow works for me it will never be the same for me/us as we're so old to become parents   
Sorry to be gloomy, have a good weekend everyone


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## K jade

Hope mothers day wasn't too bad  for all of you. 
My SIL always makes me laugh as she has to make some massive deal of it involving a big day with her mother, mother in law, 2 children, mum friends and then invites me and dp as if we too want to join in and relish in the 'joy' of it all. ... er.... I think not. You'd think it was blxxdy Christmas the way she carries on.  

Ruby sorry about the 'complex' remarks. On the upside however sounds like she did a thorough scan and is an experienced Dr who knows what to look for. So fingers crossed this clinic come through for u. 

Hkd sorry about the preg announcement. In moments like that the saying "today's news is tomorrow's chip paper" always helped me. Fingers crossed you'll have your own big moment soon. 

Hope all is well with everyone else xx


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## rubyring

Apologies, this is all about me&#8230;.  
Well, I've just completed my 6th DE cycle. The transfer was end of May, I got a BFP. Bloods were good, then slow to double, then good. The first scan at 6+5 was inconclusive. The next scan at 8+1 showed the embryo very small and no heartbeat. I had 2 more scans in the 2 weeks after which showed the embryo only 5mm and no heartbeat. I had the ERPC last week. Feeling heartbroken. This was my 4th MC, and 3rd cycle with full immune support. I'm nearly at the end of the road. I cannot bear to think I will never succeed after all this time, money and pain - physical and emotional. I'm going to start a thread in the immunes section to see if anyone has any suggestions.


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## K jade

Ruby im so so sorry  
I cant imagine how you are feeling
will you have follow ups with clinic/ Mr S? do you have frosties?
it really is the pits isn't it, we go through so much and  you dare to get your hopes up when you see 2 lines, and actually believe this may work out. I cant imagine how awful it must be to have it all snatched away. id rather it just not work.
the person I can liken you to is a lady on here called Essie, you probably read her story. 
she went through numerous DE cycles with ectopics, m/cs thrown in. she did succeed, although the personal cost was enormous I imagine. 

regarding immunes what were you on ? I succeeded with the bog standard clexane/ steroids/ lipids but I have a friend who only the big guns worked for - neupogen and humira. no amount of the lighter ones did anything for her. 
have u tried theses? I believe Mr S prescribe them.

its such a cruel game of luck
hope your holding up and keep posting
kjxx


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## Pognut

So, so sorry to hear that RubyRing. You've had an utterly appalling time with this, I'm so sorry.

When you're feeling up to thinking about what to do next, you might be interested in Siobhan Quenby and Jan Brosen's recurrent implantation failure and miscarriage clinic at Warwick University (based at Coventry). They have different ideas about the role of the immune system than Mr S / ARGC etc, but I found the research-based work they were doing (they're part of the big Tommy's project on miscarriage) made more sense to me, and was better evidenced. They charge about 500 for two womb biopsies and the consult and follow up.

More info here if you're interested. https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/biomedical/tem/bru/

They treat with prednisolone, don't use the other stuff as they think what's happening in your blood doesn't tell you what's happening in the womb and they think suppressing the overall immune system won't correct the issue in the womb. They're getting encouraging results. Sorry if you've already tried this - couldn't tell from your signature. Hope you can have a break and take life easy for a while, you've been through hell. Take care. xx


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## rubyring

Thanks so much for your posts...


Kjade - first of all congratulations! I cannot imagine...
It's up to me when I see Mr S again. He wanted me to have an ERPC and the embryo to be tested to see if it was genetically OK. However it's not a reliable test. And I find it hard to believe both of the 2 embryos transferred would be duff. I have only 1 embryo left so I feel there's minimal chance with that and then I just don't know. There's no sperm left and I don't think my DH will do another sample. Also we're both seriously old now! Not to mention the huge cost of another fresh cycle. 
I notice you did double donor? How was that? I don't think my DH would like that at all, he'd feel it wasn't his child if there ever was one, which I can understand. Also he'd be very difficult to match.How was your DH about it all if I may ask?
Yes I'd rather a straight negative than a MMC. Although I suppose it's good I did get pregnant again at last.
Of course I remember Essie. This sounds awful but I'd think well at least I haven't had the worst history on FF. So while of course I'm so pleased for her to have succeeded I feel more alone. And as I keep saying to my DH - it's so unfair
Immunes - I am going to write a massive post in the immunes section. But it makes me   to write it all down. I was on vitamins with folate, additional 1mg folate, omega 3, vitamin D, hydroxy (instead of steroids), aspirin, fragmin, intralipid, GCSF. No steroids, no metformin, no endo scratch. I felt the GCSF really helped, whereas I didn't like the metformin and hated the scratch. But it's odd as the only thing that came up on Dr S tests was raised ANA, but it seems I still need masses of drugs.


Hi Pognut,
I really don't know about the Coventry thing, I just can't face any more tests and costs. I hated the endo scratch and that's basically what they do isn't it? Also I think I read that they found the results fluctuate so if that's the case what does it tell them? I've had all my DE cycles without steroids, the most recent 3 I've had hydroxychloroquine instead of steroids. So I'm thinking maybe I need steroids instead or as well as? In Epsom basically all my tests were fine, just raised ANA which means there's something going on with the autoimmune system. All NK tests OK and TNF alpha OK. However I'm sure I have autoimmune issues as everything I can think of that is wrong with me is connected to autoimmune issues. I'm going to put a long post in the immunes section.


We're going on holiday next week so hopefully I can recover a bit better but I wanted to reach out on FF before then xx


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## K jade

yeh DD was our last hope. regarding DH we've never used his sperm anyway as he doesn't have any, all my IVF before was with donor sperm,  so for him DD wasn't a big issue. it just meant we were in the same boat. 
but I can understand it might be different if he had usable sperm. 

I really feel for you , its soooooo hard. 
defo try and enjoy your holiday as best you can. there's lots suggestions people can make, but ultimately the next move is up to you. when you have multiple failed cycles  there is probably nothing much you haven't considered trying. 
if you have high uterine inflammation then scratches are not advisable. possibly go for next frosty minus the metformin and scratch? but still do the gcsf?
I know  its all so hard to think about now


Pognut how are you?
x


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## Pognut

Hi both  

Ruby, can you take a bit of a break from it all for a little while? When things have really gone to s*^$ for us I've found it helpful to tell myself I don't have to make any decisions *right now*, they can wait, and take some time away from it. Might not help if you're someone who finds having a definite plan useful when dealing with awful stuff, but it does make me feel less under pressure and less panicky. 

I think Mr S takes the same approach to immunes as ARGC and Bravermann (?), so what he's advising will be different to what Coventry say. Yeah, it's a scratch - not fun but they have gas and air and my GOD does it help (I've had a scratch without it: not doing that again). They do 2 because (as you say), they've noticed that levels of NK cells in the lining change from month to month. That's partly why they're so sure the levels of NK cells in the womb isn't linked to NK cells in the blood, I think (my bloods were totally consistent and v high, TNF-a was always 50+ and humira did sod all, but on my biopsies one came back high and one came back low normal). Once you've had a high response they'll do you a protocol which will probably involve a low dose of steroids from about the day before ET - so you need to do it twice because if you only did it on a month when your levels were low, you wouldn't know that you might have high levels shortly afterwards.

They prescribed me a scratch before transfer despite the high levels, btw, not sure why. They don't prescribe it for everyone, and they will also prescribe other stuff for you on an individual basis if they think it'd help. 

K Jade, I haven't said congratulations to you - I've only just realised you had a BFP! That's SUCH SUCH amazing news, I am so happy for you. Hope you're feeling great and enjoying being pregnant as much as possible. Where's the dancing banana emoji gone?!?

I'm ok - we last cycled back in August last year, then my menopausal symptoms went totally bonkers, so have been dealing with that... We have moved our last 2 embryos from eggs donated by my sister back from ARGC to the NHS clinic we started off at. We had a long hard look at the ARGC's stats, combined with the stats from their sister/side? clinic the RGI, and realised that the births per embryo transferred rate at our NHS clinic was actually better. (ARGC's owner also owns the RGI - it's not exactly a separate clinic, more a different building where you can be sent to have your transfer if you're at ARGC, but they report their stats to the HFEA separately, so to get a full picture of the ARGC's success rates you need to conflate the two sets of figures.) So we're back in the NHS - and, amazingly, they think we can reclaim our NHS funding for this FET (absolutely wasn't expecting that). Probably cycling in the early autumn. Then on to new DD, if we don't have any luck.


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## rubyring

I just wrote a long reply and lost it all.....  
Thank you both for your replies, I really appreciate it.


Kjade - can you tell me any more about DD? Do they do detailed matching? I'm glad your DH was OK about it, I imagine some men would find it very difficult to be unable to be a biological father - I know I was thankful my DH was OK. But now, I don't think he'll want to do any more, and as I said we're both OLD! But a while ago my Mum suggested it which surprised me a lot - there'd been something in the news about older men more likely to have children with difficulties. So it's at the back of my mind....
I read some of Essie's thread yesterday, made me    a lot, but I just think I never get the miracle ending...


I haven't done a thread in the immunes section yet....maybe after the holiday. But basically I've done:
Donor cycles 1 & 2 with clexane and usual hormones. Cycle 1 still got the furthest.
Then I went to St. Marys. I had the Essure op and added aspirin.
Cycle 3 I had folic acid 5mg I think and clexane.
Then I went to Epsom. Basically nothing came up on all the blood tests, just raised ANA, a general marker. All NK cells and TNF alpha fine. He put me on vitamin D, metformin, aspirin, pregnacare, omega 3 and hydroxychloroquine (instead of steroids).
Cycle 4 I had all the above, plus fragmin, scratch, intralipids, folic acid 5mg
Cycle 5 was the same but less metformin (x1 not x3) because it messes up my tummy
Then I had a hysteroscopy and after ALL THIS TIME they found and removed a partial septum!!
This cycle 6 I had all the above stuff except no metformin, and I changed pregnacare to one with folate. I also had 1mg folate instead of the 5mg folic acid. I had aspirin, hydroxy, fragmin, intralipids, and GCSF. I did not have metformin or the scratch.


I felt that the GCSF helped. I was glad to not have the scratch or metformin. I thought removing the septum may have helped and the change to folate can't hurt. Maybe I need steroids as well as / instead of the hydroxy? 
I have also been researching a bit and everything I can think of that's wrong with me (!) is related to the autoimmune system. These are - endometriosis, endometriomas, fibroids, eczema, erythema nodosum, lactose intolerance, possible wheat intolerance (which I ignore), and migraines.
So despite all the Epsom tests being basically fine I'd say I do have autoimmune issues?


Pognut - thanks for the info on Coventry. I still don't understand though, if the results change can each time then what can that tell them? Did you have success with their plan? As you can see above I've had a lot of tests and interventions so I'm really reluctant to go for more.... 
I have sympathy for the menopausal stuff. I had a phase a while ago of loads of hot flushes, and a big gap between periods. I thought maybe this was it and I'd have 10 years of hot flushes. But they've gone for now, I'm sure they'll be back. Before this cycle I was on the Pill for a while so who know what will happen when my body recovers from this MMC / ERPC. I also thought my headaches were age related but I can't find a pattern, I never used to get them like this.


One sort of nice thing, the nurse from Epsom phoned me the other day - on my birthday - to see how I am. Which I wasn't expecting. She was away when I was last there and had the awful news. She told me to enjoy my holiday and take my time, and I'm welcome to phone her for a chat anytime. So although I got very    just telling her everything I was pleasantly surprised she called. 


So for now I'm going to try to recover myself a little on holiday and try to come back refreshed. Have a good couple of weeks both of you, and anyone else who's reading x


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## Pognut

Have a lovely holiday, Ruby. I hadn't realised you'd done SIX DE cycles, good grief. Ouch. And I'm shocked that the partial septum wasn't spotted till you'd done 5 cycles!! 

The reason Coventry have you do 2 biopsies is that they have noticed that levels of NK cells in the womb lining in some women build up over a few months, then shed (and obviously when the levels are low you'd have a better chance of success). So if they took the biopsy sample in a month when your levels were low, it might mean that you didn't have a problem, but it might also mean that they'd hit on a month when your levels were low but that they would go up. In one case you wouldn't need steroids, in the other you would. So they have to check at two different points in time to make sure that the levels are genuinely stable before they give you steroids.

I can totally see why you've had enough poking/testing/expense! Lovely that the nurse from Epsom phoned. It makes so much difference when the staff are great, doesn't it. 

Hope you have a lovely break. xx


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## K jade

Pognut said:


> Hi both
> K Jade, I haven't said congratulations to you - I've only just realised you had a BFP! That's SUCH SUCH amazing news, I am so happy for you. Hope you're feeling great and enjoying being pregnant as much as possible. Where's the dancing banana emoji gone?!?


Thank you! x

ruby we did donor embryo, we feel were matched well (eye colour, height, blood group, weight) but they couldn't match hair colour unfortunately . I decided this wasn't important. I have dyed my hair so much I have no idea of its natural colour anyway. I decided that eye colour was more indicative of a persons overall colouring. I'm yet to see the results but I hope we wont be disappointed. 
we've known a long time he couldn't be a bio father , it was hard at first but over the years its sunk in.
I hope you manage to get some time to rest and reflect over your holiday. 
keep us posted on next steps. its so hard. this time last year id pretty much given up. it was my 6th BFN. things CAN turn around. I hope they turn around 4 u very soon
x


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## DancingQueen287

Hi, I haven't been on here for over a year and I wish I could say it was good news but sadly not. Had our 8th failure (all possible combos tried over the past 5-6 years). We're using donor embryos (proven quality as 2 children from the same batch). I've always had a 'perfect triple lining' and still nothing. Really crushed about it all now. Got 2 embroys left so we will try again but any reassurance from anyone who's been through more failures and finally had success (basically some good news stories) would be great to hear
Thansks, xx


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## Northern

Hi DancingQueen, 
This board is pretty quiet these days but I spotted your post and didn’t want to leave it unanswered. Sorry to hear about everything you’ve been through, 8 transfers is a LOT.
My only thoughts are how much have your cycles been monitored? ie progesterone levels etc.  I’d never had it done through previous cycles, but am cycling at the moment and this clinic have checked levels every other day - and have now changed my cycle to freeze-all as prog levels are too high for transfer. It never crossed my mind before that this could be an issue but it’s got me wondering if that’s been one of the reasons for previous failures. 

There have been a few ladies recently who have had success after many failed transfers - some due to implantation window etc but also just complete fluke - right embryo at the right time. It’s still such an unknown which is so frustrating. 

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do next x


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## K jade

Old timer here just to wish everyone still following this thread a very happy Xmas    
wherever u are in your journey. 
Recurrent ivf failure is such a devastating experience and particularly hard at this time of year. 

On a more hopeful note many of us from this thread are on a wassap group and most are now pregnant or have their little ones. Which really is amazing. 
Love to all 
Xxx


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