# Open for discussion



## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Hi girls
I have often read and thought about bringing up this topic and i can understand that is a very emotive one for us all.....but i feel so sad because i am sure that each and everyone of us have thought about this often 'if i tried maybe one more time or harder then maybe it happen'?
I think this topic opens up a long list of issues on guilt and emotions. How we have come to dealing with it, which isn't easy at the best of times.
There is the media that is always coming up with new ideas in technology to give us a better percentage of getting pregnant. Then you have the T.V programmes that can really mess your mind up because usually focus on the stories that have happy endings..
I am sure for many who cannot go for IVF due to personal reasons/financial/personal beliefs are faced with many dilemmas of 'if i wanted a child' then i would go down this route.
Sadly there are the ladies who have had loss througout their IF path and maybe thinking if i try once more you never know?
The unexplained infertility that never gives you an answer and you think maybe there is an answer out there.
Not to forget family and friends that don't want you, or cannot accept that you are to give up. As they always know of someone who had a miracle story. Sorry yawn yawn, but it does get your mind playing tricks... 
What do you think?
love astridxx


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Hi Astrid,

I just noticed you hadnt had any replies here so here goes .......

I must admit, I read through your posting and wasn't really sure what to say ....  perhaps its because you mentioned a whole host of issues here.

For me, I think I'm still on that rollercoaster but feeling even sadder because i know its time I came off  ........ but I just dont know how to move on from it all and its terrifying me.  I broke down at college the other day, saying how frightened I was of the future as I know this door is closing and I can't bear it.

As for the TV programmes, I agree.  Its WELL about time someone showed IVF in its true light - including all the waiting around, worrying, crying and devastation when (more so than works) it fails yet again.  Its about time someone highlighted that its not the miracle cure everyone thinks it is and its not all that wonderful for everyone.

I'm always thinking "if I try once more you never know" but i dont know how healthy this is both for my body as well as my mind, given all the treatments I've already had.

How do you "give up" ??  The "want" or "need" to nurture a child will never go away so how do you ever get to the stage where you can handle saying "thats it" ?  I dont know.  Its so difficult.  This drives everything I do in life just now.

I'm always hearing of "miracle stories" but they're so far removed from my life that they dont actually bother me that much because if there's one thing I think i have accepted is that miracles dont happen for me - they only happen for other people, in another life.

God - how doom and gloom do i sound?!!  the sad thing is, this is the reality - for me anyway.

Thanks Astrid, talk soon
Love gill xo


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## perkyone (Dec 8, 2005)

Hi,

Astrid and Gill27 can I join in.

I am also trying to get off the rollercoaster.  I thought I had got off the rollercoaster over two years ago but had to have another attempt at ICSI I just couldn't accept that it wasn't going to work for me.  I had to have the "try once more you never know" attempt.

I am trying to recover from my last ever "failure" .  I am not going to do it again, though I don't think I will ever be able to get to the stage where I can say this without getting upset.  .  If I won the lottery I would still want another go 
How do you get over it?  How do you stop?

The hardest thing is that the clinics won't tell you not to come back and will continue to try to help. Sometimes I feel if it would be kinder for us if they would say "no more".  How many goes would they let you have if you had an endless supply of money?

The TV programmes should paint the whole picture and not just the nice outcomes.  Everyone assumes that it will work one day as this is usually the case with TV, and magazines.  The TV does not point out how it can also affect other family members too, such as brothers and sisters who feel guilty about being able to have children when we can't.

Best wishes
Perkyone.


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

HI Gill and Perkyone

Thanks for repying to the post...
Perkyone I am so sorry that your treatment has only failed recently, it must be very tough on you at the moment to even think about the whole IF situation. Thankyou for taking the time out to post here and i hope that we can help you through this difficult time.
I agree with everthing that you have both said in your postings. I am sorry that the topic seemed very broad, but i think that the Whole of IF is one spider web, that goes off in different directions. Also everyone has a different unique story to share.
Well i feel that even though i cannot go for more treatment thats because i couldn't face the failure again. My problem has been dealing with accepting that i won't have a child of my own. This is slowly becoming a reality but it is something that is hard to come to terms with,....I suppose my other area is whether to go for donor eggs? i possibly would have persued this if i knew there was a 100 per cent guarantee....As you know there isn't and that puts me in the position where i cannot face it. So i have struggled with my conscience as this is my only option but something is stopping me....
Like you Perkyone i went for that 'one for the road' and it didn't work unfortunately....when do you say this is it....or do we just reach it.....but will always face the dilemma what if i just try something else....its all mind games....and its not easy.... 
I think outside influences do not help either....
Take care
love astridxx


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## perkyone (Dec 8, 2005)

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

I think you have hit the nail on the head for me "accepting that we will never have our own genetic child".  This is the very bit I can't deal with at all and don't think I ever will be able to.  Its hard as DH has a twin brother who has three children and feels guilty himself.

We did consider donor sperm but I couldn't do it.  In the end we want our own genetic child, and this is the reason we decided to spend our last go on one further MESA ICSI treatment.  DH was ok with using Donor sperm but I wasn't I wanted our own genetic child.

Its the feeling of failure that is getting me down.  I have taken this week off work and basically don't want to see anyone other than very close family - who I can have a good   with at any moment.  All I seem to be able to do is read through these message boards and gaze out of the window .

I feel like I have fell in a hole and I can't or don't want to come out yet until all the hurting has gone.

Hubby seems to be able to carry on more or less as usual and says he accepted a long time ago that he may never have his own genetic children.  I assume that he must feel sad but is trying to be strong for me.  We can't both fall apart .

I have been for counselling but this doesn't seem to help me I   the whole time I am with the Counsellor and it makes me feel terrible afterwards.  I just want someone to give me the answer and counselling is not going to give that.  Unless the counsellor can make me pregnant I just don't want to know.

I suppose it is just time that will help as I don't want to give up but like you can't take any more failed attempts it makes me feel worse each time.

Any how that is enough from me I have just read through my post and can't believe I have typed all this.  Perhaps it helps posting on here letting out all the horrid feelings 

Take care,
love Perkyone.xx


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## Charlies-Mum (May 25, 2005)

Perkyone

I'm feeling the same way as you - I gaze out the window or lurk on these boards. Everything else in life seems to have lost meaning at the moment.

I'm finding each day a little easier and I think it is just a really big thing to try and get our heads round.

Take it one step at a time and eventually we will make it though.

Take care
Debs


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## dhikki (Sep 5, 2005)

Hi girls just thought i would also butt in!! hope no one minds?

I have asked myself so many times over the past 4 years, how do i know when to give up and move on?

I get all the time your only young at 27, you still have years of trying?? etc etc, but people do not realize how hard it is to go through all this IVF stuff.  

I have not come to the decision yet, about when to stop and give in, i am not sure how i will, or even if i will, it keeps me awake at night how much longer, do we give it?  how much more money do we put into it? all these questions with no answers........ 

I don't want to give up, i want to keep going and maybe one day........it will happen!

But then it comes back down to will it ever work?

It is so hard, and my heart goes out to each and everyone doing this, no matter what the TX, the conditions or the out come. All i do know is the ladies and there partners that make the choice to stop are so much braver than me!

Good luck to all Love Donna xx


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## ks123 (Nov 27, 2005)

It's taken me a while to think through Astrid's initial post in order to be able to post a reply. 

The week before last I plucked up the courage to tell my mum that she won't be getting grandchildren from DH and I. She was upset and suggested we adopt. Now she's phoning me telling me stories about cousins who tried for ages, went through IVF and when they stopped trying they suddenly had a child. She's also telling me to stop working so hard, relax, take care of myself, she's praying for me, etc. All these things just make me feel worse, because I feel guilty/emotional, maybe we should try again, etc. 

MY DH is like Perkyone's DH. He accepted ages ago that we couldn't and he's now trying to be strong for me. 

I would love our own 'genetic child', but we don't have the money to have another go and I'm not sure I could put myself through the emotional and physical stress and trauma of going through IVF, over and over again. Then the guilt kicks in and the 'maybe just one more time' rears it's head. It's a rollercoaster of emotions and guilt.

The problem as you all say is that everyone hears the 'lucky' stories. None of us talk about how it has not worked and the trauma of going through it all. However, I'm not about to volunteer for a BBC documentary about it. 

Take care
Katherine


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## irisheyes (Feb 2, 2005)

Those who know me know that we ruled out ivf after our iui failures.Moral resaons on dh's part and me not knowing if i could cope with it all anyway.

My dilemma at the mo is going on clomid as one last ditch attempt(or 6 -as you do it for up to 6 months!!!). I still havent phoned the gp back. My last blood test was 17 Feb but when i phoned the last time i couldnt speak to gp. Then i was really busy in work the last 2 weeks. I am supposed to phone tomorrow and i still dont know what to do if

a. She says i am not allowed to go on clomid thru gp clinic(as dont want to go back to fertility clinic) and 

b. She says i can go on them!!! What if they mess up my moods again. Then what if we have to feel as if we HAVE TO HAVE BMS every month again and IF IT DOESNT WORK AFTER 6 MONTHS and i am back in despair again. I went thru a bad month in January and pulled myself out of it.

I went caddying for dh yesterday on the golf course and it was the first thing we have done something together (apart from going for dinner) in so long i am afraid to rock the boat again.Plus i am going to france at end of June with mum and 2 sisters and the last time we went i was on medication then too(beta blockers for stress when our first half of ttc failed). I would like some drug free time!!!

But if i dont go on them will i always regret not trying everything?? i guess i will know when i phone but no doubt she will have to get back to me and that could cause more delays!!

As for the tv issue- there is a programme on this week called 'The Family Man' - think its a repeat but in the Mail on Sunday tv mag it says something like " would be nice to see a bit more than people moaning about"all i want is a baby"- not exact quote but probably written by someone who hasnt a clue about infertility!!!!


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Hi everyone

I think I can say for me and my DH we realised we had given everything our best shot, and it was pretty clear the outcome was not going to be a successful pregnancy.

There are a few reasons why we didn't go back for any more treatments. We wanted to get off the rollercoaster and the ups and downs of treatment, we wanted to have some quality time as a couple, and not have our lives dominated by the next cycle etc. We felt we had missed out on so much because of dedicating years to treatment. All this and the financial cost, me having to go to work to help fund treatment and dealing with an unsympathetic employer, and my husband having problems with his employer  too. And other things like using all of our holidays at work to cover treatments, hospital appointments etc. It all got too much in the end, and to be honest, it was a relief to be able to step away from it all. Heartbreaking and devastating too, but relief was in there also.

We have also had pressure from our families, my mum was desperate to be a grandparent. She often hinted and showed me letters from her friends all saying 'I should think you are a grandma by now' etc. My MIL was a prize pain in the rear end (and still is) making flippant comments like 'new home new baby' when we had moved house after a (what was then) recent ectopic pregnancy. I never made my mum a grandma, and I never will because she passed away a couple of years ago - and that hurt dreadfully too.

Its like no-one in our families really understood (or understands still to this day) how difficult it was for us to be able to have a family of our own. Even a lot of close friends had no idea. Thats the problem with the media, when all the TV programmes, magazines etc only concentrate on a happy outcome after fertility treatment. Everyone (or rather, the uninitiated) always believes that the same will happen for you some day too. If I had a pound for all the people who have said 'so and so had a baby after years of IF, they had given up and look where they are now' Well if I had another natural pregnancy (which theoretically I shouldn't be able to because I have no fallopian tubes) 99.9% odds are it would be another ectopic. But try explaining that to people like my MIL who thinks they should have devised a way to 'get around ectopics' yes dear, IVF is one of the ways... and its never worked for us!

Other people can put immense pressure onto us to 'come up with the goods'. This is why we chose to keep our IVF to ourselves, we did tell MIL at one point when hubby decided she should know. I made certain she didn't know about any subsequent treatments afterwards though because of the hounding we had from her. Once bitten, twice shy! We only told a select few close friends - one of whom kept phoning me to ask how things were going when I had begun down regging - LOL! She didn't get how lengthy the whole process is. Now she understands though!

I think if perhaps I hadn't had so many losses I may have carried on with treatment, who knows. All I can say to you all out there is its a tough call, I chose from the heart not to continue, but more often than not I know its the pursestrings that decide, which is horrendous. I've had people tell me I have given up too easily - yeah right, they are not in my shoes. I choose to look at it as not giving up but choosing to walk away and take another path. However, if I had never been through any losses this may have been different - to walk away from future treatments has been the only 'control' I have ever had over anything concerning pregnancy and motherhood.  

I'd just like to add that my clinic always seemed so keen for me to go onwards with more treatment, the cynical side of me thinks well they are a business - even after the last failed attempt when we both said it was the end of the line, no more, we had a letter from them a few months later offering us ICSI. We were both still adamant the answer was no more. If anything, that letter reinforced what we felt. But if I had been having a wobbly time, who knows, it could have touched a raw nerve - did they play on that? Hmmm, cynical me speaking there!

Sorry for the long message, its all tumbled out of me in a jumble of thoughts! 

Much love to all, and thanks for bringing this up Astrid xxxxx
Emcee x


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