# BEEN A LURKER A WHILE CAN YOU HELP PLEASE.



## WILS683 (Feb 15, 2005)

Hi I am not sure if I am posting in the right place but could really do with some advice I have been lurking on here for some years now. I am 30 my husband 38 we started trying for a baby when we got married in 1999 but after a few years trying naturally we went the drs & had tests results were that I was fine but hubby had low sperm and we were advised ICSI we did so & were delighted when it worked first time & we had a beautiful baby boy in March 2006 who is the light of our lives. In June 2007 we decided to try for a brother or sister for him we had a fet in June but BFN then a fresh ICSI in September 2007 which was a chemical pregnancy followed by another fresh ICSI in december which was BFP i thought I was the luckiest girl in the world but when we went for the first scan found tHE baby had no heartbeat devastated can not describe how we felt. Had A fet in April BFN & have just completed another fresh ICSI which resulted in BFN. I know how lucky we are to have our beautful son But I so long for a brother or sister for him. We are now up to our eyes in debt from funding all this but you keep going & finding the money don't you when its your dream. I guess I am asking for any advice do you think it is worth us having another go or do you think its rime for us to give up even as i right those words I am screaming inside no no no. It just seems so strange that it worked first time when I was so prepared for it to take a while but now it just is'nt happening do you think there could be something wrong with me now? Any help advice would be so greatly appreciated I just seem to be running out of strength. Thankyou for reading.x


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## butterflywings (Jul 9, 2007)

Hiya
          I cant offer you much advise but didnt want to read your thread and not type anything to you.. so many people keep trying and keep going and the strength they have amazes me.. Its difficult to decide that its the end of the road.. and some of us cant even make that choice.. its so emotionally as well as financially draining.. and it kinda takes over your life.
Only you can decide what is best for you and your DH...
you have had BFP... so you can achieve a pregnancy.. perhaps look into more progesterone support.. Gestone oil instead of cyclogest pessarys.. or immune issues.. do you take aspirin?

some people find steriods really help.. are you at the same clinic? if o perhaps try discussing with them your options..they should be prepared to look into trying other stuff for you.

Your still very young.. and personally id try again.. but i would look at different treatment plans..

good luck to you
im here if you need an ear
xxxx


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## Fidget (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi 

I have moved you here, I have a feeling you may get more replies here than in the abroadies  

Good luck

Debs
xxx


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## WILS683 (Feb 15, 2005)

Thanks for your replies I am pretty useless on a computer so still trying to find my way round. But it is so nice to be able to speak to people who understand what I am feeling. Great to be called young as well as at one of the toddler groups I go to I am one of the eldest Mums there and a lovely young lady asked me when I was having another one and was I worried about being an old Mum I nearly choked on my Coffee.


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## billsmummy (Apr 21, 2008)

Hi Wils the lurker! I read your post and its very similar to me only that ive only ever one BFP. We started TTC in 2000 when we were both 30 and now 7 yrs later we have recently had our 5th failed ivf/icsi attempt. But it worked the first time so like you i can achieve a pg so why not now? I have highish FSH but other than no real explanation. 
I too question my desire to have another when i am so lucky to have my son but i cant help the physical pain i feel when i think ill never have another newborn. In my mind im still a scatty 16 yr old but in reality im also an old mum who's ladies bits are letting me down and i feel so angry.
You are very lucky as you have your age on your side. We will carry on until they say i physically cant as i want no regrets.
So have a bit of time off, save what money you can and up the BMS just in case, my DH gets a fright whenever he sees me using the OPK  
Good luck 
mandy


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

Hello WILS683, welcome to Fertility Friends. 

Firstly can I say huge congratulations on your little man.. 

I think IVF, when it fails is always going to be hard to bear and when you have seemingly had such an easy ride (although I know it isn't like that at all) for the first go with a first-time BFP, to then continue to get failures is so frustrating.  It is doubly so when you have come so close with the biochem pg and the m/c which I completely understand having gone through something similar myself.

I don't think anyone can really make your mind up for you about what to do next and when to stop as it is somethign that is so individual and personal that only your heart can tell you what is right for you. I know for me I decided to stop and live child free at one point but, I knew almost as soon as I made the decision it was the wrong one as I needed to end my ttc in a way that left me satisfied I had done what I set out to do, regardless of the disappointing result. So we then decided one last fling and had our last ever cycle of ICSI I had no hope of it working but this time (although, to my shock it actually did); I was ready and prepared to move on and even, in a strange sort of way, looking forward to finding a new life with new challenges and being free from years of ttc and misery. We even went round car showrooms looking at 2 door sports cars! I always feel that making the decision to stop should be one that brings a certain degree of relief as well as the sadness it will inevitably bring too. When you reach that point _then_ I think you know you are ready to move on. I too am now in the position where I want another baby as I always knew I would. However I already know I cannot face more IVF, simply from an emotional standpoint so, although I know it's a fairly lost cause DH and me are ttc the old fashioned way for a bit. If nothing else I can get my own form of closure from this so, in a way, I am doing it as much for therapy as for the real hope of another child.

There are lots of ladies on FF who are facing similar dilemnas and you can find them here:

*Hoping for another miracle ~ **CLICK HERE*

There is also this thread for those mummies who have accepted that they will have no more children and have moved on here:

*Moving On: For Those With Children ~ *  CLICK HERE

I am sure if you post and introduce yourself there you will get plenty of support and understanding from those ins a similar situation as yourself. Please do post and join in as I know you say you have lurked for a logn time but I know you will get tons more supoprt now you are a member but this can only happen if you post!

You may also want to have a little look at the following areas too:

*What Every New Member Needs To Know (includes a list of common abbreviations) ~ *   CLICK HERE

*Male factors ~ *CLICK HERE

*Babydust - Parents place for chat and support ~ *  CLICK HERE 

*Girl & Boy talk Community & Fun Board ~ *CLICK HERE

You can also chat live in our excellent chat room. We have a newbie night in the chat room every week (*Wednesday at 8pm*), where you can meet other new members and get technical support with navigating the site and using all the functions available here.  CLICK HERE FOR INFO ON NEWBIE CHAT 

You can also "meet" and chat with people in your local area through the *Location boards*. This is especially useful to find people who may be using the same clinic and or in the same PCT area.

Wishing you loads of luck and look forward to chatting with you soon. 

C~x


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## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi Wils!  Welcome to FF.  I never knew this area even was here.  Just happened to follow your thread from ABroadies out of curiosity.  Good to have a look around many of the areas on FF for information and support and then maybe you will find a thread you feel most comfortable with.

My comments to you is that you are really quite young for IVf so I would think the problem lies in your DH sperm having more deterioration.  Have you done recent sperm tests with details of morphology?  There is some improvement to be had with the sperm but certain vitamins, health measures and sometimes long term antibiotics.  Even saw a report this week about soy affecting sperm.  It is a fragile commodity it seems but at least renews every 2-3 months unlike our eggs.
You however will likely need a work up on yourself.  Maybe the first pregnancy made changes in the uterus.. perhaps a polyp or such?? I am  Not a medical professional but have had a lot of time doing tx for fertility.. just throwing out some ideas, the sorts of things I would be thinking of in your place. Get a hysterscopy, hormone tests, etc.  You never know what they may fine.  I would have thought these tests have been done on you each time but with your young age maybe they did not. 
Don't give up hope for that sibling.. I never did and then got two.. even if I lost the DH!!!    That won't be your case I hope... Well maybe the twins if you are up for it!!   

Good luck and don't hesitate to come back over to us abroadies especially if you end up having tx abroad or eventually donor sperm if DH agrees.    You have lots of options ahead of you still.. so nothing to despair about if you can manage to afford ( money, time and PMA) to do more tx.
\Again good luck to you.

Bonnie


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## WILS683 (Feb 15, 2005)

Thankyou so much for all your replies. Mandy can I ask what FSH is I read a lot about it on here but My consultant or fertility nurse have never mentioned it to me?. Also other than Hubby taking Zinc that I saw on here and laying off alchol ( he does like a beer ) for a couple of months before we have the Icsi we have never been offered any advice about ways to improve his sperm. We have decided we will definately be trying again in October hopefully and really want to do anything we can to improve our chances of it working. Thank you again for your replies its lovely not to feel so helpless and lonely with all the tx.


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

Hello again WILS, I just wanted answer your question about FSH.

FSH is Follicle stimulating hormone. Thi is the substance that you inject to mak your follicles grow during the stimulation phase of IVF prior to egg collection.
However FSH is a naturally occuring hormone, produced by the body evrry month in the follicular phase of your cycle (i.e. before ovulation). It's purpose is the same as you would in IVF - to grow follicles - the difference being you produce it in much lower quatities naturally and only end up with one, maybe 2  lead follicles at ovulation. To put it in it's most simplistic terms, the more FSH your body needs to produce naturally the worse your egg reserve is - a high FSH is often considered one of the key signs of approaching menopause (in fact, some of the stimulation drugs used are made from FSH extracted from post menopausal women). Your FSH is normally measured between day 2 to 5 of your menstrual cycle and, generally, anything below 10 is considered good, with anything over that meaning you may not respond as well to stimulation and will need higher doses of stims to get a decent number of folliclles for egg collection. It's obviously a little more complicated than that and, I'm not a medical person so just simplyfying it as best I can.
If you've been told you have no problems then your FSH would have / should have been one of the first things they tested so probably nothing to worry about (you can also tell by reviewing what dose drugs you were on for your IVF and what responses you got to them). However if you have not had your FSH measured for some time it's worth getting it done again as they can fluctuate over time. Various factors can raise it too, such as stress levels etc. and there are some complimentary medicines that can help reduce it too so, as I say, it's not quite cut and dried as a high FSH means you're washed up fertility wise! 

As for your DH's sperm - it does seem that clinics / consultants don't really go into the whole lifestyle / diet thing enough for couples with male factor issues. You do kind of have to do your own research and find things out yourself - if does annoy me as I do think so many couples could probably avoid at least ICSI if not IVF altogether if they were given more guidance. As Bonnie points out, sperm can miraculously recover from all sorts of abuse as it is made on the spot and takes about 3 months to mature. Therefore, if your DH has a really bad cold, 3 months later his sperm might be awful but, if he spends 6 months on a healthy diet and makes lifestyle changes / takes vitamin supplements then you can (although not always) see some fantastic improvements. I've seen lots of tales of amazing recoveries in sperm as a result of some fairly simple dietry modifications so it is definitely worth looking into. The zinc and laying off the booze is a great start and will certainly make a difference; you might also want to look at an overall fertlity supplement that provides all the stuff he needs to make great sperm. Have a look at the Male Factors boards and see what recommendations you can find - there's quite a few formulations on the market but, generally, you won't find them all off the shelf in Boots and may need to look for them on line.  

Wishing you lots of luck! 

C~x


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## WILS683 (Feb 15, 2005)

Thanks Caz I wil mention the Fhs thing next appt I know with each Icsi they have had to up the doasage of Menapur I was on so might be worth testing me again. And i will do some research now as to what vitamins I can get hubby on.  Your little man Benjamin look so cool what a cutie.


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