# Multiple BFNs - what can we do next???



## Happy Bean (Apr 27, 2013)

Despite having all NK cell meds, an endo scratch this time plus embryo glue when the our 2 blasts were transferred all supported by acupuncture (which I've had on all rounds), discovered this morning that our fourth IVF round has failed  

Really felt like we'd thrown everything at it this time and so am at loss to know what to next and just don't understand what keeps going wrong at implantation stage (?). 

We have paid for our next round already using Access Fertilty but don't knew how much longer or how many more BFN's I can face so want to make sure I ask all the right questions and have had all the right tests before commencing on our next round so any thoughts anyone has would be really appreciated - may be PGD testing Assisted hatching I really don't know much about any of these but wonder if they might help...

Thanks all...


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## Louisej29 (Nov 19, 2012)

Hi happy bean.  Sorry to hear about your cycles.  It's so devastating.  

After our 6th cycle I was feeling the same - what now? What else is there left to try.  We seemed to have done everything and yet every cycle resulted in bfn or mc.  

For me the missing answer was IVIG transfusions.  I truly believe its that that worked.  We'd tried intralipds.  Steroids. Gestone. Clexane.  Aspirin. All the usuals but deeper immune testing showed I needed more.  Have you had your immunes tested thoroughly? 

What have your clinic advised.  Make sure something changes in your next cycle and they don't just put it down to bad luck.  I'm so sorry you had a bad result this morning - I know what a horrible sinking feeling it is- but don't give up. You'll get there 

Lots of love xx


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## Happy Bean (Apr 27, 2013)

Thank you so much Louise - great to see you are getting there, this process is just so emotionally and physically draining and I've never seen a BFP so am really feeling disheartened now! Do you know the benefit of the ivig? I know it's more expensive

As you have suggested like to see a change on the next cycle (this time the scratch and glue were added) it's just knowing I'm asking the right questions!  I'm not sure what level of immune testing we had to be honest, up til now I've tried to leave to the experts (I'm usually more of a control freak but the extra stress of trying to second guess everything was counter productive!) and do trust my clinic but I am very lucky in that I have health insurance which covers testing so will push for anything I can get and may consider getting another opinion elsewhere...

I did ask about doner eggs or sperm last time but she didn't seem to think that was the problem

Kxx


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## Hbkmorris (Apr 7, 2010)

Hello ladies, 

Happy Bean. I'm so sorry to read your news. I feel for you with all my heart  

I'm a multiple failure lady although I broke that with cycle no 6 but it still didn't end well with a mc.. As I've paid for all my cycles and tried everything with immunes meds, scratch etc I'm now going to try with DE as I felt I needed to change something for cycle no 7. 

The mc totally wiped me off my feet and the thought of being 40 and it happening again being more in debt I just don't feel I could risk it. Though if money wasn't a problem I'd go with my own eggs again as they seem to fertilise as top quality but again due to my age it's still a huge concern.

May I ask if you've a hysteroscopy recently? that's one thing you could possible try to make sure things are good inside. 

I hope you get there soon and I truly hope they can give you a little something different this time. 

Luoise29.. Congrats to you. Lovely to see you've a BFP xxx


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## Lilypink (Oct 8, 2013)

Hi happy bean, 
I can totally relate to you. I had my 3rd cycle fail on the weekend, never a sniff of a bfp in my life. 
On my last cycle we used prednisolone, clexane, gestone, intralipids & a scratch with 2 hatching 5 day blasts. 
I am now booked to go & see dr Gorgy on the 23rd for further immunes issues as the immunes treatment we used last time still didn't work.
He does the Chicago testing which seems to be a lot more complex than just nk cells, and seems to use a more aggressive approach, as Louise said things like ivig, humira, LIT etc. 
Iv also bought dr beers is your body baby friendly book which is ment to be a really good read for ladies with immunes. 
I have also been speaking to ladies on here who have had endometrial biopsy's for nk cells which show sometimes steroids can suppress too much causing implantation so that could be another thing to look at?
It really is a minefield and so frustrating when you don't get answers. 
I wish you the best of luck moving forward 
Xx


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## Redgirl (May 16, 2007)

I'm in the same boat Happy Bean - just had our 5th failed ivf after having everything we could meds wise to help us get a bfp.  I think it is a good idea to have more questions lined up for your next consultation and as others have said - ask if there is any more testing that can be done before you have another cycle.

It is emotionally draining but try to take care of yourself as much as you can.  It's such a difficult time but great to have the support on this forum.

Big hugs
Red
xx


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## Happy Bean (Apr 27, 2013)

Just wanted to thank you all for replying. In a funny way a negative gets a little easier each time (my first failed cycle I was constantly in floods of tears!) I guess we prepare ourselves better - just planning nice things to get us through to the next round!

Someone has also suggested a thyroid function test (as I have possible PCO which they think was the resson for the OHSS on the first round).

I'm not sure what level of immune testing we had even! All I know was they took 10 vials which went off to the U.S. - cost about £800 - *Lilypink*....have you seen Dr Gorgy before? I am thinking of getting a secind opinion on the immune results but will definitely be asking more questions based on all your comments...

*Hbkmorris* I don't think I've had a hysteresopy! May I ask you how you chose Dogus? As a longer term plan I'm wondering about a DE clinic abroad as I have affair ly stressful job so wonder if a complete break during treatment would help and have heard good things about Cyprus (plus we have a friend with a place out there...)

Big hugs to all

Kx


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## Hbkmorris (Apr 7, 2010)

Hiya Happy Bean 


So I asked my GP to refer me to my local hospital for a hysto, it's a day case and I chose to have GA for the procedure. They check the insides in more detail ans also take a biopsy of your lining not to check no cells but the lining in general. Mine came back all clear but it's something I wanted to get checked out and crossed off my list of possible problems. 


As for Dogus, well I'd spent over a year pondering on DE and I contacted numerous clinics overseas along with Dogus, Serum & Prague. For me Dogus was the one I felt more comfortable with. I liked the way they worked without pressurising you into treatment, scans and additional testing before hand. I've every test and procedure going so I knew that everything else was clear and more so after my operation with a BMI clinic to remove my left hydro tube and cyst. After the mc on cycle no 6 it backed up my concerns that my eggs could now be the problem so after much thinking and realising money now was so tight I came to the decision that DE is my best route to hopefully give me the best outcome in the long run. After not speaking to Dogus for 6 months or more I was worried of their response but Julie couldn't of been any nicer.. She welcomed me with opening arms and she has been above and beyond helpful, kind and positive for me. 


I followed a few people's cycles at the clinic over that year and started asking questions and everyone speaks very highly of them and the clinic itself. What also helped was the few ladies I got talking to had a positive outcome and therefore just makes me feel more happy with my choice. 


I hope you find the right path for you. I had all my immune system testing and even sent menstrual bloods off all of which came back normal.. My only high level my NK cell biopsy.. Now as most clinics overseas treat with immune meds regardless I'd not focus so much worry and concern on this (in my opinion) xxxx


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## Lilypink (Oct 8, 2013)

Hi,
No I haven't seen him yet, got my consult next Monday (23rd) 
If you have had your bloods sent to USA then u may well have already had the testing that I am looking to do.
You can have thyroid function test via your GP to rule that one out xx
I have suspected PCO not the syndrome, and iv been put on low dose metformin so that's another thing you could discuss x


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## Happy Bean (Apr 27, 2013)

Thank you *lilypink* - sounds familiar then as I also have suspected PCO rather than the syndrome although seem to have been ok (touch wood the last few rounds with getting my bloods to stay stable (the London clinic I saw just chucked Mr on a high dose with minimal upfront testing for me first round!) and I understand there may be a thyroid/PCO lick? Fingers crossed for you appointment then, do let me know how you get on 

*Hbkmorris* sounds from both your and lilypink's replies there's more I can get my GP to do so might start there & while I think I have a few more test to do yet to rule out the issue DE is something we certainly haven't written off - wishing you lots of luck, sounds like you've made a good decision 

Kx


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