# Very bad day



## snapdragon (Jun 27, 2011)

Really struggling today. Took lo to the adoption toddler group and he kicked and pulled the hair of a little boy. He just didn't want to be there. He went around pulling things off tables, throwing things etc and wouldn't play. I left early and burst into tears when the post adoption sw came out to see me. 

I have this problem with all toddler groups. Lo is 3 in February and has been with me for 10 months. I have been going to toddler groups for about 8 months and things are getting worse not better. All the other children potter about happily but he just wants to go home. I can't even get him to stay for singing at the end which he used to enjoy. Very concerned at the moment about what will happen when he starts nursery. He just seems so different to all the other children. At home things are better though he generally wont play by himself and I have to try hard to engage him though he does love his cars. 

His birth dad has aspergers and adhd so there is a strong possibility of one or both though i'm not sure if his behaviour fits either.


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## GERTIE179 (Apr 20, 2005)

Aww Snapdragon - I'll PM you later as LO currently not giving me any space.

Just wanted to let you know someone else shares your worries & had similar this week (not actually fighting but LO clearly struggling at a group we've been going to for 5/6months. Had to leave early and it was actually no fun.

Also echo the play thing. We get glimmers but they are just that and I'm hoping a few hours of nursery next year may help. I think it's too early to worry about labels etc and try and see what it is about ie do you think LO struggles with free play but can follow instruction? I must admit its one of the things that's surprised me most having a child who's care had been good/consistent etc that they still struggle to play and it's so normal for many children.

Hugs and I'll PM you later with a better response
X


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## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

Lots of hugs, Snap. I've been there, and it only recently got better for us (he was three on Friday).  I left one group sobbing after he hit another boy - it wasn't the thing itself, it was that I felt like all the other mums only saw that, and not all the other wonderfulness that was our boy.  Hated that feeling.

He always seemed to have preferred being played with, rather than self-directing play.  Only last month, he sat down on the floor and 'played cars' for the first time ever.  When he was first with us, I'd have to provide all activities, and they'd only last less than five minutes.

I can't say what's changed, although we have noticed an improvement since he went to nursery and childminder.  Honestly, for him, I think it's just feeling more settled and being older.  He often behaves better when I'm not there, little monkey, and we do think that him learning that we could leave him somewhere and would always come back helped his security loads.

Don't worry too much about conditions or syndromes yet, it's very early days.  LOTS of hugs for today, and I hope things get better soon.


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## snapdragon (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks, feeling a bit better now. Its good to know i'm not the only one as that's often how I feel. I think it was the way the mum looked at me and she also told lo off after I had already done so. I think his delayed speech might be a factor, not major but he is just putting 2 words together.


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

Sorry to hear you're having a bad time at the moment.  We also have the issue with Wyxling wanting to be played with all the time.  Playgroups have always been a challenge, she would behave on the surface OK while there, but often refuse to play, and just look at me constantly to make sure I could see the little defiances.  I used to try and play with her most of the time I was there, which sometimes worked, but often it didn't, she just wanted to control and be awkward, and then when we got home everything would go downhill rapidly.  She also just won't entertain herself in the house, and seems to feel that if I'm there, I should be playing with her, and doing exactly what I'm told to boot.  

I was really worrying about her starting nursery (pre-school) and things are not smooth sailing at home, but in the time she's there she's doing really well.  Because I'm not there to try and control, she's learning to entertain herself and joining in with the things they are doing.  She's a complete nightmare to get out the house in the morning and when I pick her up again for a while, massively controlling behaviour over everything, but while she's there she's learning to control her emotions, regulate, and most importantly, entertain herself.  

I often get the feeling with Wyxling if I could just get her to play with only 50% of my attention, most of our problems would be solved.  It's being bored because she refuses to play while I'm not playing with her that gives her too much time to think about how to be awkward.  It's not really that simple.  There are other factors, emotional development delay, which is extremely common in adopted children, often makes our children's behaviour seem unacceptable when if you think, were a child who's, say, 18 months doing something like this, would it seem so bad, or would we just gently correct them and move on?  I try to think like that with Wyxling when she's being very difficult anyway.

Also, inability to express themselves is one of the main causes of toddler behaviour, so delayed speech may well be a bigger part of it than you realise.

It's difficult feeling like people are judging you on your children's behaviour, but I think we just have to think sod 'em.  I think if we as Mums feel shame about their behaviour we respond in a way that puts that shame onto our children, and the more they feel shamed or bad, the more likely they are to act bad.  Or so I'm told, and I think I reached the stage where I have to trust what professionals tell me and follow their suggestions because I was all out of other ideas.

I would have very firm words for anyone who presumed to try and discipline my child, and have done on a couple of occasions when people have decided to add in their two penneth when Wyxling has been really raging and trying to hurt me when we're out and about.  Not something she ever did very often out the house, but occasionally we've had massive blowouts in Tescos or play groups.

Big hugs and lots of love for your little man.  

Take care,

Wyxie xx


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## snapdragon (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks Wyxie, that really helps. I've read many of your posts and found them very interesting and helpful. Lo seems to have some similar behaviours. I think what I struggle with is that lo was with excellent fc's from 2 months and is deemed to be a very straight forward child. I guess i'm left feeling I must be doing something wrong.


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## Wyxie (Apr 10, 2013)

It's hard not to feel like that sometimes.  I think perhaps we question it more when we adopt, but there are also additional challenges.  Assuming your son was with b/m until he was two months old, he's lost two previous carers at an age where he simply doesn't understand the reasoning.  The loss of his f/c must have been absolutely devastating for him, and incredibly scary.  At the very least, that will almost certainly have a huge knock on effect on his emotional development and security with you, that you aren't just going to disappear, and that can display in so many different ways in different situations.  That doesn't necessarily mean that he won't catch up, and it doesn't necessarily mean that genetic factors may not be at play either, but that's a worry for when he's older.  

Just a suggestion, but when he's in the "won't play with anything" mood, have you tried just sitting him on your knee and giving him a cuddle, and trying to engage him in hand games, or singing games, just with you?  Sometimes Wyxling responds really well to this.  She'll fight like hell quite often when I get her and sit her down with me, get really upset, then snuggle and just play baby games with me.  If you sat on the floor with him and picked something to play with and just started making up the story of what was happening, the car's doing this, can he help get the bread from the shop and put it in the boot, before you drive somewhere else, or can he give the doll the medicine while you're doctor, would he go along with it?  I used to do this quite persistently with Wyxling.  It was really obvious to me she was very stressed out by the playgroup environment and I wasn't going to be able to just let her play, and I spent a long time doing that, and gradually she started to spend more time going off and doing things with other kids, and occasionally I got to sit down and have a cuppa or a chat to someone.  She also used to respond very well if there were craft activities and I did them with her and we made a big mess (of ourselves, not the place!)  We always went to play group in old clothes and if we ended up finger painting or splodging glue all over the place and getting caked in glitter, so be it, because it helped her to relax in the environment.

Course some days I could do absolutely nothing at all, and just made the best of it.  I avoid taking her home though unless I genuinely believe the stress is too much for her, and even then I tried to make it go to the park, or go and have a walk, instead, so it didn't feel like "you're being so bad I'm taking you home".  

Big hugs.  Don't be too hard on yourself.  It's incredibly difficult making up for that lost time, and really, there's no such thing as a straightforward toddler at the best of times, let alone one with all sorts of complications in their short lives.  It's easy to pick out the things we do wrong, but all parents do things wrong, and as long as we try and fix them and do lots more things right, we'll hopefully get there.  I am trying to give up on the idea that I have to turn into the perfect Mum in order to help Wyxling get back on track, because the frustration at not being able to do it is making me upset and cranky, and I'm already too irritable and emotional to come close to being in anyway perfect most days!  Sometimes I think it helps to think about all the things you've done right and give yourself a bit of a pat on the back.

Please message if you want a chat.  Adopting can be really isolating, because things are just more complicated, and I think that can often be dismissed by friends and family as just "oh, all toddlers are difficult", making us feel like people believe we just don't know what we're doing or what we were wanting all those years we wanted a family!

Take care,

Wyxie xx


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## GERTIE179 (Apr 20, 2005)

Hi Snap,

Sorry I forgot to pm (lack of sleep!). I think Wxyie has nailed it again with her wisdom.

I totally understand the feeling of surprise that everything you thought about lo's background and receiving good care etc you just don't think they will be as emotionally behind (and thus affect their development) but for some Los it really does. I tended to think most issues were as a result of older adoptions from my reading - a bit naive I know. Even during HS, I felt we looked at what issues for school aged children. I definately didn't think it'd be the same as birth families but as time goes in the more I see small differences. Some affect me more than others and I reflect on them.

I've taken the approach recently that LO just doesn't know how to play instinctively so I'm going to teach him. As a result of me doing this intensively (like the first few months) our bond is stronger - to the point he's became a mummy boy after always being a daddy boy. The more I do, it seems the more he can manage to do in small parts himself.

What about play dates with only 1/2 other children - can he manage this? Or I've found early/quiet times at soft play good as long as I'm there, my lil guy will happily try and copy if play with a few others. It's not the same as imaginative or role play but it's giving him the confidence to be around others (which used to freak him out 6montgs ago).

I still find it hard being everything at once - friend, teacher, HV/Nursery nurse, being aware if attachment& bonding plus finding out more about you as a parent. I have a very good support network and folks just let us do it our way but I do think some friends think were paranoid new parents and thus I don't talk about our issues - as Wxyie said it can feel isolating as these would be the people I could share "me" with. But hey ho.

HTH and here anytime if you want to chat x


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## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

Snap, our boy was straighforward with his FC, and at some points I thought, "OMG, I'm ruining this child!  I must be doing everything wrong!" but it's not like that, it's the trauma of change acting on their behaviour, and grieving for their past familiar things and people.  It's not you!  

I echo the baby games thing.  Old favourites like "round and round the garden" and "this little piggy" are a gold mine if your child likes tickling.

Around his birthday, I could see Bug was getting stressed about "being a big boy now" and wondering if he was still allowed to be "a baby".  After bath one evening, he was playing around and asked for "baby boy" which is a silly rocking game.  So I swaddled him in towels and rocked him in my arms singing "my baby boy... you're my baby boy... cuddled safe in mummy's arms...." into his hair.  Every time I stopped a phrase he giggled, "again!" and we kept it up for ages, as I could see it was really helping him on so many levels.  And he's so independent and 'grown-up' for his age in other ways!

The playing alone will come.  In the mean time, play with him as if he's a baby - it won't hold him back.  ((((hugs))))


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## Mummy Noodles! (Mar 31, 2010)

Snapdragon ... read your message yesterday and I really feel for you.  


To be honest...it made ME feel better! I am always anxious of our LO behaving. He is very strong willed and energetic. We are at the stage where he prefers to be out of the pram in shops but then runs WILD...the looks I have had from other people!!!   However I do feel/think he does need to use up all his energy and express his feelings but some days   


So...what I am trying to say (badly) is I do understand to a degree and its very stressful. Life totally changes...I really miss chatting with DH about US because all conversations and our life is geared around LO now. Some days I wander who I am??!! Listen, really hoping you've had a better week this week. We do all understand on here. I actually spent most of last night venting to a friend of mine --- then at the end of the night saying thanks for the therapy session!!   I think my advice would be to be a lot easier on yourself - give YOU a break as it's hard work!!  


Take care, Mummy Noodles XXX


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## snapdragon (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks for all your replies. Have had a much better couple of days. I'm going to concentrate on playing with lo. Can't wait for Christmas, really need some new toys.


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