# please help



## SueQiwi (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi there~

I am currently 42, but about to turn 43 next week. I got pregnant with my DD at age 39 on my third round of IVF and gave birth at 40. We love her so much and desperately want to give her a sibling. 

So we jumped back on the IVF rollercoaster and I fell pregnant again on the third round of IVF this January. We were over the moon and even saw the heartbeat at 7.5 weeks. I went back for my 10.5 week apt and the baby had died--no heartbeat. Absolutely devastated. I can't even type this without crying all over again. I had a D&C about a month ago. 

Well now I just don't know what to do. Being so close to our dream has made me want another baby even more! But I promised myself I would cut off the fertility treatments and craziness when I turned 43, which is next week. The odds are so poor for my age and I did not want to take up my daughter's young life with this mess. But I just feel so sad about the baby we lost and am haunted wanting my girl to have a little brother or sister. But I honestly don't want to waste any more time or money on just another heartbreak. 

I'd appreciate any advice.


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## polly614 (May 8, 2012)

I am so sorry you have had such a hard time. To miscarry so late is such a sorrow, a shock, and a terrible disappointment after you have seen the heartbeat. If you really want to grow your family, and give your daughter a sibling, you will find a way forward.  
I am a little older than you, I had a baby at 41. Now I am trying for another, -- I gave up on ivf after 3 grueling rounds, and embraced the idea of donor egg. It became more important to me to have another child, than to be rigid about genetic material. At first, it was very hard to wrap my heart around the subject. But the more I learned about it, it seemed to me that using a donor egg was the right way forward, and so much of you, your hormones, your blood, becomes part of that child inside you. Google 'epigenetics'---you will be amazed what they are discovering about how the pregnant mother's hormones affects the baby within, and has as much influence as the genetic material. I am now 6 weeks pg.    
Please don't give up. Whatever path you choose, more ivf, adoption, donor egg, you will end up with another child in your lap, I am sure of that. Take care.


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## deirdre11 (Sep 22, 2010)

Hi SQ,

Sending you lots of    

I gave birth to my twin girls, DE IVF, at 43+, barely squeaked them in before 44....  and I do feel old!

I lost an OE pregnancy earlier than you...  it's heartbreaking, and no other OE IVF worked after that.

But my girls are here, and I don't regret a thing for doing DE.

Good luck to you, D


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## SueQiwi (Apr 21, 2012)

Thank you so much to Polly and Deirdre for your soothing words and good advice. Polly congrats on your pregnancy! That is fantastic news and I am thrilled for you. And congrats on your twin girls, Deirdre. Maybe it is time for me to start thinking about donor eggs too. I remember a time when I wouldn't even go there in my mind--but now I am feeling like it is an option. I especially like how using donor eggs "stops the clock" and maybe I can get some sanity back. I googled epigenetics Polly--and that is interesting, amazing stuff! 

I am a bit saddened that over 212 people have read my message and only two lovely ladies have taken the time to respond. I was told this was a place to turn for heartfelt support from people who understand. Im probably just still hormonal    but super disappointed with this website none-the-less.


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## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

i am one of the people who read your message but did not reply. i didn't know what to say. i do wish you well though. i'm trying oe ivf but i'm nearly 42 and terrified. i do not want to have to go down donor egg route, i would be appalled to have to. i am not saying i never would do that but i cannot yet accept the idea. my consultant thinks i am crazy. i can't accept the idea of never having my own child, and right now (not never) i believe it would be impossible for a de baby to be accepted into my wider family, i think it would always be made to feel like a second class citizen... people might convince themselves that it doesn't matter if a baby is from de but in my head it makes all the difference in the world - yes i could be condemned for admitting that i feel this way and yes i realise i will probably feel different when i am 44. when i try to imagine having a de baby i imagine having to tell people the whole time 'oh he/she's not mine they were a de baby'. i imagine them spending their whole life condemned to never, ever feeling like they belonged, and having my wider family treat them as a stranger. i think the genetic link means absolutely everything. i am angry, angry about being old, angry about feeling useless and angry about my own stubborn beliefs. i am terrified and feel like i am never going to feel 'normal'. i would be so grateful for even one child - i always dreamt of three - i won't have time to chase getting a sibling if i am lucky enough to get preg. i do understand people wanting more children but as one of the childless i also feel a bit as if those who have a child should be grateful and spending every last second appreciating that child not making them feel like they are not enough. i know that sounds mean and stems from my own feelings of inadequacy. but i still feel that way. i am frustrated at feeling criticised for not replying to this thread - i doubt that my post is in any way what you wanted to hear. my reason for not replying was just that, but now i feel compelled to respond regardless. so i cannot advise you what to do, i hope you get your dream, and this site is excellent, i think it is wrong to complain of lack of support.


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## alexine (Jun 8, 2010)

SueQiwi perhaps some ladies don't respond to a thread after reading because they don't feel they can reply in a helpful way...not because they are indifferent. FF is a great website and forum for support.
xA


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## Pumpkin2904 (Dec 1, 2011)

I will be 43 in August and decided that we would leave it all to fate as not in a position financially to have any treatments that don't guarantee a child at the end of it. 
Good Luck with what ever decision you make... All I would say is to always make sure you never look back with any regrets xx


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## Ellie.st (Mar 11, 2005)

Dear SueQiwi
   I suspect that there were lots of ladies who looked at the post but just didn't know how to respond as it is very difficult to know what to say.  I am so sorry that you lost your LO recently.    I see that you have had quite a bit of tx already so you know exactly what is involved physically and emotionally, and only you can decide if you can face going through it again.  I was 40+ when I set out on the IVF trail after ttc from the age of about 34.  We were about to give up after 2 BFNs when I decided to have one last OE cycle for closure - this resulted in a BFP and my DD when I was three months off my 43rd birthday and after nearly 10 years ttc.  After alot of agonising (because I developed pre-eclampsia, my DD was born 2 months early, and the chances of similar problems in a future pregnancy were pretty high), I eventually decided to have a FET when I very nearly 46.  My DS from that FET was born when I was four months off 47, although I lost his twin at about 10 weeks.  Both pregnancies were worrying - I think this is natural because of all you go through with IF and IVF - and the second was even more so because of the risk of pre-eclampsia.  But we got through it, and it is all now just a very distant memory.

What I would like to say to you is:


1. 43 is a limit you have set yourself, but if you really want to try again, you can.  43 isn't a magic number where the curtains suddenly come down on any chance of success. Yes, the odds are low but you can go into it with a realistic mindset, and alot depends on your own circumstances.  You have had two BFPs which is a hopeful sign.  Yes, it will hurt if it doesn't work, but maybe it will hurt even more if you don't do it and are always thinking "what if...?".

2. I've been through IVF with an existing DD from IVF.  I do feel incredibly lucky, not only because it gave us our DS but also because it gave her a sibling, which, for us, as older parents with a very small extended family, is important.  Again, I think it is down to your mindset.  Can you go through IVF again without your existing LO being overly affected by the emotional turmoil?  You've just been through it so you probably have a good idea of how it would be to go through another cycle, and you have to make the call as to whether you can shield her from the stress.  But, again, what are the implications of not doing it - will you always regret it, and will it hang over your family? And is the chance that it just might result in a sibling for her worth the possible short-term upheaval? I do think from my experience with my own DD that a 3 year old is more resilient that you might think, and as long as you can keep her happy in her own little bubble while IVF upheaval is going on, then she probably won't pick up on much at all.

3. I don't think you should see it as investing time and money in potential heartbreak. I saw my tx as a chance which wasn't going to be available any other way. And I think that my case shows that you never know what might be waiting round the corner.  

I do hope you are feeling a bit better now      and that you are now feeling stronger and more able to make a decision as to what is going to be best for you and your family.

For what it's worth, I think that FF is an incredibly supportive website and I don't know what I would have done without it while I was having IVF.  Sometimes, however, posts don't get picked up on for whatever reason (timing, board chosen...) and sometimes, as I've said above, people just don't know what to say and it is true that alot of people reading probably are still longing for their first baby and may find it hard to empathise with someone aching to add to their family. But please don't feel angry and frustrated - I think FF is like a friendship: it doesn't always go smoothly, you have to work at it sometimes, and, most importantly, you get back what you put in - but it by far the best support I personally have ever had.  So bear with it, and I hope that if you do decide to go for further tx that you get the support you need. (I am sure you will  .)

Ellie


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## SueQiwi (Apr 21, 2012)

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it. And I just wanted to say sorry if I offended anybody. I know how it feels to long for that first baby. I remember being annoyed by people yearning for a second child when I so desperately just wanted one. I didn't mean to be insensitive by posting here about wanting a second child--i just thought there would be others in the same boat who would understand. I know how much it hurts when you are trying for your baby and I wish you all success. Believe me, I would love to take that pain and longing away for every single one of you--I know how bad it is. Please know this has not come easy for me--I have had a long journey with trying for eight years and then 6 IVFs.

I especially wanted to thank Ellie for her thoughtful response--it means a lot to me. Thank you for taking the time to give me some great advice.


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## Ellie.st (Mar 11, 2005)

, Sue.  If you decide to go ahead with more tx, and need support any time, just post here or pm me. 

Ellie


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## Daisy38 (Oct 25, 2010)

Hi SueQiwi,

Just finished reading your post and wanted to send you .  There are loads of lovely ladies on FF just to let you know, I think it depends on what time of the day you post, and how many folk can identify with what you're going through.

I've had 13 rounds of tx to have my first baby and I've just turned 40 and am thinking about a second one.  One of my greatest fears is getting pg and then having a problem either with the pg or with having a healthy baby.  This is mostly like yourself, about not wanting to diminish the quality of life of my 1st little one, as the toll of tx is ever so emotionally draining, as will be a 2nd pg as I'm sure I would be worried all the time.

My first DD was born using donor embryo, as I had a very high FSH from the age of 32.  We tried with OE for four years without any success.  It was heartbreaking coming to the realisation that the only realistic opportunity would be to consider DE and then we realised there were further complications with hubby and we moved on to donor embryo......I just remember crying and saying " my baby will be made up of clinical waste" thinking that these embryos are just discarded if of no use to anyone.

Well low and behold our DD is beautiful in every way......not just me saying this, but lots and lots of total strangers saying how bonny she is.  She has never felt like anything other than mine, but it did take a while for me to get my head round the whole idea.  I have other FF who are dear to me who are not keen on the idea of DE, however this is because they have had pg using their OE, so I can see how the transition would be massive as I have never had a pg with OE.

I hope this can be a little bit of help for you darling, and I send loads and loads of (((((hugs))))) for you because this loss is so  hard with everything you had to do to get this far and seeing a hb too.  I can only imagine how painful this is. 
The answerers you are seeking you will find, but for now just look after yourself and trust that you will come to the best choice for your and your little one when the time is right.
I too want a sibling for my little one, and it is not easy going through tx after tx, so I hope you don't feel alone in this desire.

LOL Daisy38 x x x x


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## Chandlerino (Nov 30, 2011)

Hi Sue

Just wanted to post and say that I am in a similar position to you. If you look at my ticker you will see my history. 

I am having egg collection for OEICSI on Friday and desparately hoping that this is the one cycle which is going to work although my response has been terrible. I've had to stim for longer and only have 5 follicles. For me, I'm not ready for DE and besides which the finances have run out so this is my last treatment. 

I am so sorry to hear of your miscarriage - it took me at least six months after my last one to return to some sort of normality. I really thought I was in the clear at 13 weeks but it wasn't meant to be. Its heartbreaking but don't give up xx


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## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

Daisy38 said:


> Hi SueQiwi,
> 
> Just finished reading your post and wanted to send you . There are loads of lovely ladies on FF just to let you know, I think it depends on what time of the day you post, and how many folk can identify with what you're going through.
> 
> ...


we had to discard two embies, i was most upset that they were not considered good enough to freeze. While i am sure that i would be considered way too old to donate embryos (i'm nearly 42, expect they want nice perky young ones) i would have rather them have gone to someone else than be thrown away. i don't think anyone should see donated embryos as 'clinical waste' but as much wanted 'potential babies' that can't be used by the donor. In the morning they had told us we were getting the ICSI ones back, only 6 hours later they decided the IVF ones were doing better - there was only a 6 hour development difference between the ones i had put back and the ones that were destroyed. If they had been donated i would have felt they had just as good a chance as the ones i had. If i could have had a way to safely put all four back in me i'd have done it like a shot. (if i had believed that would have resulted in four perfect, healthy babies i would have done it, anyway.) As it was they wouldn't let us mix the IVF and ICSI. Anyway my point was that if someone gets a donor embryo it's not 'just' clinical waste...


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## quisty (Mar 31, 2012)

Dear Sueqiwi

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. I had a miscarriage 2 months ago 5 days after my 43rd birthday which was 5 days after finding out i was pregnant and 4 weeks after being told I could conceive without using a donor. We don't have any children but we have hope. I know it's really tough but anything worth having is so hang in there if you can. Before you finally decided read a book called Inconceivable by Julia indichova. I recently read it and it has made me change the way I think about things and to find alternative ways to give myself the best chance of getting what i want. Its really easy to read and Julia herself went through infertility after her 1st child and at the same age as you. She also has a website called fertile heart. Another book I was recommend but am waiting to receive is getting pregnant faster by Marilyn Glenvile PHD she also has a website and does workshops etc.  I also agree with what Pumpkin said that you never look back with regrets. Perhaps it's just time to change they way of approaching it and thinking about it. Anyway Sue I hope this helps a little and I really hope you get your wish.take care x


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## SueQiwi (Apr 21, 2012)

Thank you so much for all the replies and also the private messages I received. I think I was very wrong about this site--it is wonderful to know that there are others out there that understand and are willing to share.

Daisy--thank you for sharing your story. I think those donor embryos must have very good karma as they are coming from a couple that has gone through fertility treatments and must have very-much wanted a baby too. I also think it is almost like a adopting in a way--but you get to carry your baby! Congrats to you.

Chandlerino--I hope and pray that this works for you! I see that you have had 3 miscarriages and one at 13 weeks--that is just devastating. Of course you thought you were in the clear by then--my heart just breaks for you and the unfairness. I also thought everything was ok after we saw the heartbeat and was totally shocked and devastated when we found out the baby died. I still can't think about it without crying. I do not want to go through that again. But I do so want another baby. 

Quisty--how horrible to have such a turnaround of events! To find out that it is possible to be pregnant--get pregnant and then lose the baby. i feel for you! I hope that you get pregnant again soon. it is quite hopeful that you were able to conceive with your own eggs so recently.

I have decided to meet with my Dr and find out what he thinks. i want to know if the fact that I got pregnant so recently is a good sign or if the fact I miscarried is a bad sign to try again. maybe my eggs are just too old now. But I really do want to give it a chance and not wonder "what if" (like Ellie says). 

It kinda scares me how much I long for a second child. I was so over the moon having my one girl. I never dreamed I would be doing more fertility treatments. But I think now I know what it's like to be a mom I just want to keep doing it. And I want my girl to always have somebody there and to look out for each other. I know this may sound morbid--but since we are older parents I want to make sure she has unconditional love from family after we are gone.


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## memebaby (Mar 17, 2011)

hello

this is just a very quick response as i have to go out but I totally get your overwhelming desire for a 2nd child, I had my dd in Nov 2007 and she is 4 now. I feel absolutely blessed and I know how lucky I am and how others are struggling to have their 1st child but I cannot explain  how great my physical longing is for  a 2nd child and I feel exactly the same about being older parents and wanting a sibling for my daughter so the 2 of them will have each other come what may. Im having ivf at teh mo and am stimming currently. This is my absolute one shot at this and if it doesnt work with the sperm issues my dp has I know I will never have my 2nd child. How I will deal with that I have absolutely no idea. 

Im sorry for your distress and sadness. I feel it too every day and I wish you all the best with what ever you decide and fingers crossed that you achieve the 2nd child you so deserve,xxxxxxxxxxxx

ps ...im 42 , my dp is 44


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## cas1703 (Jan 24, 2012)

Hi SueQiwi,

I was one of these peeps who also read your message originally and didn't reply.

The reason was on quite a lot of posts I have feelings but don't quite know what to say or how to say it. Quite often I sitting here writing messages then scrub them out, like pieces of paper as they don't sound quite right and I don't wish to offend people (although I may not mean to).

Specifically with your post, I have my 11+3 week scan in just a few days and I have been pre-occuipied lately whether everything will be OK and that just triggered that thought (adding to that I turned up a week to early for that scan this week DOH!)

From my mind, if you feel it difficult to convery the right thing it may be better not to say anything. I am sure the majority of people have read things on here that upsets or they find difficult but that is what makes us unique.

I have been lucky (fingers crossed) but this forum has been a blessing as I had nowhere to get any impartial advice.

Lots of Love to you whatever you decide


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## SueQiwi (Apr 21, 2012)

Cas--please do not worry that the same thing will happen to you! I feel so terrible that my story has put fears in your head. It is very rare to have a miscarriage after seeing a healthy heartbeat around 6-8 weeks. Only 5% go on to miscarry after that. So the odds are absolutely in your favour that everything is just fine in there. I was just incredibly unlucky. But chances are you are going to be just fine. 

Meme--thank you for writing back. I really appreciate what you said and am glad you know how I am feeling. I hope this cycle works for you!!! How are your follies so far? I hope you have a good response.

I just get so scared thinking about doing another cycle and having a failure and ending up more depressed and $12,000 poorer! And I really dont know how I would handle another miscarriage. I just so want to be done with fertility treatments and all. It is such a burden and you never really get a break because your mind is always going. But it doesn't take away that longing for a baby.


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## deirdre11 (Sep 22, 2010)

Hi there,

A very cautious reply.... not sure what meds you need for tx, but seems to me 12 000 is a lot? I don't want to lead you into error, but would France or Spain or other countries be less expensive, even for OE IVF?

I went here,

http://www.ivf-france.fr/pages/en/home.php

and the costs were covered by the French med system since I was living in France at the time, but we talked to them about doing another cycle at our own cost when coverage ran out and seemed not as expensive as that?

Any thoughts anyone else? I had quotes from three Barcelona clinics as well and seemed they were less expensive as well.

Wishing you the best...

xx D

/links


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## SueQiwi (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi Diedre--I live in New Zealand so that is in NZ dollars. I'm not sure if that changes anything or does it still seem like a lot? We dont have a lot of choice here--only one clinic with separate branches in each big city--all the same pricing. How much are others paying?


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## jules40:)x (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi sueqiwi,

I'm one of the people who read and didn't reply, your title is quite general so is likely to attract a lot of reads from people willing to help if they can but as others have said your situation is different from a lot on this site so few people will have anything constructive to add.

I'll be 41 tomorrow and am pregnant with ivf twins, I also have 2 older children conceived naturally 14 months apart, all are boys - I have seen the bond they've had all through childhood (they are now 17 & 1 and its fantastic and I know I am very lucky to be pregnant with twins on our second attempt so they too will have each other as well as their older half brothers. I am one of 5 children and have a huge extended family so I know should anything happen to us the twins would not be alone.  That is the first reason I didn't reply, I have replied before and had 'what would you know' responses x

I too have been through miscarriages and ectopics so I know how lost and desperate you will be feeling now.  You are lucky to have your DD, I had my 2 older children at the time but it does not fill the hole that the loss of a baby leaves and that is what makes you even more desperate for another, you could already have 10 and you would probably feel the same.

DE is a consideration but you need to think honestly about how you would feel and if you would feel differently about a child conceived this way when you have an OE DD already.  

Hope that helps, we're not monsters here just sometimes it's hard to know what to say, ESP when you are lucky enough to be where I am.  Good luck in whatever you decide but give yourself time to grieve first xx

P.s.  $12000 is about £6000 we paid about £5000 for each attempt x


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