# Utterly devastated by brother's announcement!



## Liliaicha (Feb 22, 2004)

Hello everyone, I just wanted to write this down as I'm sooooo angry and upset and I can't see my counsellor till next week and that seems so far away.

My brother and I had an arrangement that when his new wife got pregnant he would personally come and tell me so that I wouldn't hear it on the family grapevine. We both knew that it would be hard for us both but decided it would be the best way.

I knew that she had been taking folic acid and was thinking of coming off the pill before the wedding so I was kind of prepared for an announcement the customary 3 months after their honeymoon, as I was sure that the baby would be conceived then.

Anyway, I saw my brother a couple of days ago and he said 'I've got something to tell you' I then said 'I think I probably know what it is' but I was kind of in shock.

Turns out that they had just been for the 12 week scan - 3 days after they got back from honeymoon!!!!
I burst into tears, mumbled that I was really happy for them both and then changed the subject to the holiday I had just been on, and waffled for about an hour until he left.

Once he had gone my emotions just took over, ok, I knew I'd be jealous and upset, but I didn't realise just how angry I would be! I was utterly hysterical for about an hour screaming in to pillows and punching the wall - I've never known anything like it, and I certainly didn't expect it!

So it seems like it has taken her precisely 10 nanoseconds to get pregnant, while I've been struggling for years. She obviously didn't even have one month of disappointment where she might have felt even 1% of the pain that I have felt over the last five years. (Not that I would wish this on anyone!) I'm furious! But I can't seem to understand myself why this would have made a difference, I knew she was going to fall easily but so bl**dy easily!!! Why am I so mad? I've been crying for days, the mere thought of her makes me feel sick and I don't think that I'll be able to stand seeing my own brother, who I love dearly for months if not years.

I won't be able to go to their house or attend any family functions because the thought of being in the same room as her is so unbearable!

I have shocked myself with the intensity of my feelings, the anger, at the utter unfairness of it all, the upset of the fact that my relationship with my brother is now destroyed and that I won't be able to talk to any body else in my family as they will want to know my opinion about their 'good news'.

My mum is also very upset, and I cried down the phone to her last night. She said that my brother was terrified of telling me, and although he did it in the way that we had arranged I'm still angry with him, he couldn't have told me in a better way and he even said himself that he would have told me before the wedding but I'd just had my 5th negative and he didn't want to upset me even more, and he thought that I wouldn't have gone to the wedding - well he's right if I'd known there is no way I would have gone, and thinking about it now makes me feel sick.

How am I ever going to be able to see my brother again? I think I may just about be able to manage seeing him on his own, but it would be awful of me not to ask how my SIL is. So I just think it's best that I don't see him which is very sad for me, because I am or I was closer to him than to any one else in my family.

Sorry to go on, but I'm sure some of you wonderful ladies must have been through this too, and even come out the other side!! Any comments would be appreciated....

L x


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## redmond (Jun 29, 2006)

Dear Liliaicha,
So sorry to hear you are having such a hard time at the moment.  I so know where your coming from, my little brother 's daughter was born the day after my m/c.  I found it so hard to be happy for him and really struggled with my emotions.  I still find it hard sometimes but 9 mths on I am sitting at home awaiting their arrival as they are coming to stay for the weekend.  I still have difficult days but on the whole can enjoy my beautiful neice. 

You need to be gentle with yourself and give yourself time to adjust to everything.  It feels awful not being able to share your own brothers good news but totally understandable when it brings up your own feelings of grief. I read a good post here the other day which pointed out how other peoples pregnancy news only reminds us of our own grief and can bring it back to the surface even when we feel like we've moved 0n.  I found this really helpful advice because I didn't like to think I was jealous or mean spirited about other peoples good news.  I now realise when I feel like this it is just my own pain I am having to face and not because I am bitter. I am not denying that I can feel jealous or bitter bt I think acknowledging the underlying feeling is my own grief for what could have been helps me understand whats happening.  I hope this make sense this is a great place put down how you feel and you will find great support from all the other women.  Take good care and be gentle on yourself x


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## Mistletoe (Holly) (Jan 1, 2007)

I totally understand. I have been in similar situations and it is hell. You feel like the wicked witch of the west, but at the same time know in your heart that it is fantastic news, news you want for yourself so badly. You want to be happy for them, but also at the same time it feels like someone has stabbed you in the heart and pulled out your insides. You feel all the "why me, what have I done to deserve this pain?" feelings so intense, and ultimately you feel your world crashing down around your ears as you realise that because of your own feelings that you are isolated from everyone.

No one understands this really, unless they have been there. That makes you feel that your feelings are wrong and invalid. No one wants to know about it, because they can't believe that you can't feel automatically happy for them - you can't believe it yourself, so how can anyone else understand?

I have had this with my closest friends recently. One told me, before she told everyone else (which was nice) when we were an hour into visiting Hampton Court flower show last year. It was such a shock, because she had said before she did not want children. She said that she thought it would never happen as it had taken 10 months. I did not know she was even trying. I said, "you should try 6 years of it"
I had had my laparoscopy showing blocked tubes about the time she got pregnant, and I had been told 3 weeks before that, that my husband had no sperm, and there was no chance of finding any, and he ruled out using a donor.
I burst into tears, felt terrible that I could not have congratulated her, and the whole situtation was a nightmare for the rest of the day. I kept my sun glasses on, because I was crying. I sobbed properly when we had opportunities to visit the ladies. She felt very uncomfortable, and I could hardly speak.
When I got home and she had left, I cried for about 36 hours non stop.

However, I tried my best to feel happy for her. Our friendship has continued, though it is not like it was. I am "auntie" when I see the baby. It upsets me when the baby cries and won't stay with me - I feel that even she hates me - although that is stupid I know. My friend seems to have everything she wants and that I want. A happy marriage - whereas mine is disintegrating due to IF. Parents who have agreed to look after baby when she returns to work - my mum is dead and my dad is miles away. She is blissfully happy as a mum - I am depressed and miserable, and I can't see myself happy ever again.

My other friend also had a baby after 3 mc's and somehow, I can cope with that better, as she has also had these issues and feelings when her SIL and best friends were pregnant and she had lost babies. I am auntie to that baby and I have been left for whole days with him. I love him to bits and I feel to him that if I can't have my own, then I can mother him in some way. My friend is supportive and encouraging and gives me hope.

My husband's friends and family are also having babies and I don't want to know. The MIL and her SIL get together and have discussions in front of me about their grandchildren. I don't want to see some of my side of the family because they ask me about children and the young ones who have had 3 children already are even getting vasectomies done, and everyone is laughing at how fertile they are.

To top it all, my least favourite person in the office is pregnant -I cried. I got over it, and tried to ignore her. This week we are told it is twins - I cried. It is so unfair.

Everything hurts. Reminders are everywhere.

My next door neighbour is 80 and was infertile. She said something to me the other day that made me think - she said 'you are upsetting yourself'

I do hope that you can work through your feelings. Remember anything that is said now cannot be unsaid - pity that others don't remember this one. 
With time to adjust and accept you will be able to be a fantastic auntie and love the baby I am sure.

But I do understand. Take your time.


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## Maggie Mae (Mar 2, 2006)

Dear Liliacha,

This world is incredibly random, and all the efforts made by humans in the last two millenia to impose some sense of order have been pretty much futile, at least from where I sit. I have no real wisdom as to why the world is random, and therefore sometimes cruel, someties beautiful, but I think as individuals we are far too small to fight this and acceptance is a better strategy. But how?

I can't say I have mastered these suggestions fully myself, but I would urge you to 1) rant and cry as much as seems necessary and 2) not judge yourself for feeling the way you do. It seems to me that when I prevent myself from releasing emotion it only gets more unbearably intense, and that if I judge myself for not being able to be happy for others etc., those feelings stay around for longer. JQ would say that you aren't mean for being jealous, you've simply had another very sharp reinder of your own grief. If you allow your feelings out, chances are you'll be able to think more clearly about the strategies you need to establsih in order that you feel able to cope with the next six months.

Sending you massive hugs, hun.

Love, 

MM xxx


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## janeo1 (Sep 27, 2006)

Dear Liliaicha

Sorry to hear of the pain that you are going through right now, it is terribly hard when things like this happen. No matter how much we try to prepare ourselves , we never quite manage it and it still comes as a shock.  I remember the feelings well the day I burst into tears & stormed out of friends house when she tole me our other pal was PG. Other girl had been too scared to tell me herself.  The night my brother rang me to tell me SIL was pg again , I burst into tears and my ex Husband told me to "get a grip" . What I'm trying to say is the pain is always there lurking , and times like this you are reminded of the harsh reality of it, the despair, anger, resentment  & total unfairness of it all kick in big time.  

You need time to adjust to this, don't be too hard on yourself. I know you feel so distraught, but may find that with time this PG will become easier to accept.  At the end of the day you are going to have a nephew/niece in your life who I promise you will bring you so much happiness. I have one of each and I love them both to bits, they are a total joy to me.

Sending you a big hug, this will pass

Jane x


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Dear Liliacha,

Hope you are feeling a little better now.

You are wondering where all your feelings have come from. Well, I bet you, like me and probably everyone in the world with a brother or sister howled "It's not fair!" when we thought they were getting something we weren't. In my case whoever did not get the red bowl at breakfast could get very worked up about it! My brother once threw his blue bowl of cornflakes at the wall, he was so cross.

However much we love them, these feelings of sibling rivalry often remain into adulthood. Wanting a child is so fundamental that it hurts very much indeed when our sisters and brothers get what we can never have. The feelings that arise can be frightening because we may never have given them expression since we were very young.

Our parents sensibly trained us to stop having "tantrums" about things like red bowls. But remember how it felt as a little child when life was so unfair and you felt absolutely powerless to put it right and totally at the mercy of the adults who just would not listen? Did you ever feel so unhappy and mad that you thought you would never stop crying and yelling? Well infertility makes us powerless again. It *is* unfair on a universal level. We feel at the mercy of doctors, whether we can afford doctors.... and maybe at the mercy of fate/god/nature or whatever we believe influences human life *and will not listen.* So it is no wonder infertility makes us feel so many emotions, so much rage, and no wonder it all comes out when our siblings arrive with their news.

Just as our rage as children spent itself, so it is that our feelings around infertility gradually become less raw and easier to deal with.

Liliacha, it does sound as though your brother really cares for you, and that you and he will be able to talk things through. Maybe next time you see him it could be just the two of you. You could tell him that as his news came so soon after the wedding you were really taken aback and although he kept his word and told you in the way you agreed would be best, you need another bit of time with him on your own.

Go gently on yourself,

Love 
Jq xxx


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## tiggymj8 (Jun 25, 2007)

I feel that I have to reply to this board, reading it upsets me also. I completely know what you mean, in the past 5 years I have become aunty to 6 children, and 9 of my friends had babies. The worst part for me is that even my sisters quite happily announced their happy news around the dinner table, which yes is great, but how do you hold back your emotions in a situation like that without coming across as jealous or selfish, which neither is what I felt, just down right hurt, that I am being punished in some way.
I find that when their babies were born over the years I found it so difficult to even want to help change their bottoms or anything like that,,,and I qualified as a nursery nurse 10 years ago, I naturally love children....now that they are just a bit older, im the best aunty ever, even if i do say so myself.........changed jobs now though
I feel very alone still, having been fostered myself as a baby and losing my parents when i was a teenager and again being fostered at 15 yrs old, being a parent is the most important thing ever for me, and i am sure will be the answer to my sadness and not belonging i have always felt,,,for once i will have something that is truly mine, that knowone can take away,, and i will love with everything i have in my soul.....I am also about to be godparent tomorrow for the inlaws,,,,how the hell does someone mask their true emotions through a day like that,,,,and i cannot say a word, because i havent told anyone apart from close family about my situation

worst day ever,,,,,my sister asked if i was going to breasfeed,, ive never even been pregnant ,,,,she even offered to lend me her maternity clothes,,,nice gesture some would say,,,,would be if she was 6 ft or I was 5 ft 6.

M


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Dear tiggymj8,

Thanks for lettting us all know how it got easier to be an aunt as the babies got a bit older, and congratulations at becoming the world's best! Seriously, it sounds as though you have a lot to offer the little ones in your family. That is very encouraging for those of us who are not aunties yet.

I am just a little confused about who you have and who you have not told about your fertility issues. You say you have told only close family, but it sounds like at least one of your sisters doesn't know as she was talking about breast feeding and maternity clothes, plus it does not sound as though your partners family know. Forgive me if I am being nosey or just misunderstanding! I ask as I wonder if perhaps things would get a bit easier if more of your familiy knew your situation? You never know, they may be supportive, and at least they would have the chance to be sensitive about your feelings and not make pregnancy announcements at dinner.

I am so sorry to hear what a difficult journey life has been for you, and I guess your sisters too. I do hope that happier times are ahead for you.

Love

Jq xxx


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## emmag (Mar 11, 2007)

Oh Liliaicha,  I wish I had something practical to say to you.  My SIL was married 2 months ago (they married specifically to ttc - my helpful FIL told us that on the day we got our last IVF BFN) and I'm dreading the inevitable announcement. I don't think I'll ever be able to see her again either, and I utterly dread it. I'm so, so sorry that you're having to go through this.
x


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## perkyone (Dec 8, 2005)

Hi  Liliaicha,

I haven't been on here for a while but still read the posts occasionally.  I can relate to your post so so well.  

My brother in law's new girlfriend is pregnant - due August.  BIL has three children by his previous marriage, and she already has three children of her own!

I feel much the same way as you.  I haven't seen her since I found out she was pregnant it was not even planned and they had only been together a few months which makes it even worse!  I feel as if it happened on purpose. It's just not fair 

I am hoping that I might get better when their baby is born but at the moment I cannot deal with the situation at all.  Family gatherings are difficult as she is not welcome (mainly so as not to upset me).  I just want it all to go away but it won't.  I will only move forward when I feel I am able to do so - you have to got deal with it all in your own time.

It feels as though you are the only person to be feeling like you do and that you hate yourself for feeling that way but it is all normal, understandable feelings.  

Sending  .
Put yourself first.
take care,
Perkyone


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## tiggymj8 (Jun 25, 2007)

Hi JQ,
yes thats exactly why it was so hard, my sisters do know, all of my family know, which is why it was so hard to openly discuss something around the dining table, in front of bil's aswell, i mean its quite a personal thing aswell, and there is this natural assumption that its the women who is to blame.
It easy to be Aunty though because i have alot of love to give and i give it, in my own home, but when we're together as a family,,,,it very hard, mainly because the conversation is about babies, babies, babies,,,,and i remember my one sister saying to me, ,,,,wait until you have children you will understand,,as if not being a parent, i havent got no say,, or opinions.
We have kept our secret from friends mainly because its all they want to talk about,,,for some friends who do know,,,its like,,,hiya, how are you, hows IT going? when you finally pluck up the courage to go out and socialise,,its the last thing you want to talk about in a pub....
the christening went quite well until.....i was told that someone who i bothered with 10 yrs ago asked my parents about our trying for a baby,,,and believe me,,i did not expect my situation to be common knowlede,,these bloody nosey valleys....I was told by someone yesterday whom i barely knew that it was actually my SIL who has been telling people.

I am utterly devastated,,,,,i should have known by the way people look at you or treat you as some sort of victim and that your hard done by,,that pixxes me off.
Couldnt even face work today because it depresses me.....
dont you just hate when people think they understand when they dont have a clue.....

i have rambled on way too much,,,,i cant believe how helpful it feels to offload.


kisses to all of you


MJ


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## Liliaicha (Feb 22, 2004)

Hi tiggymj8

My situation is not common knowledge in my family - I don't think I'd get support, more like just pity and I really don't need that.  I have only told my parents my brother + SIL, 2 friends and my boss (due to tx and needing time off). 

Other people seem to have 'found out' and I was not happy when I realised this - my Nan saying "oh my god you're not going to have twins are you", no Nan just one would have been nice - I cried for hours after that, more angry tears than upset, and then a few weeks ago my aunt told me how sorry she was that my tx had failed again - I answered "how on earth do you know about it" and promptly burst in to tears - I think it's my mum telling them, but I don't want to confont her about it - she's probably been fielding off questions about being a grandmother for years!!

I think with everyone it's different, if I had the time over again I wouldn't tell a soul, I would have just kept it between me and DP and here. I don't want other people's pity and 'so sorrys'. They have no idea what itfeels like as they have never been thru anything like it themselves.

L x


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi everyone,

Liiacha is so right that it is different for everyone. Personally I found it hard when people who did not know made a whole other set of assumptions along the lines that I had never wanted children, that I was a hard hearted career woman who preferred horses to people and too selfish to give my mum a grandchild. They actually aired these views too! (I think the general public think IF treatment is generally successful, so any childless woman of a certian age simply did not want children.) So it seems that whether or not we tell people what is going on, we may be misunderstood.

I guess we need to keep on getting support where we can, including from one another here and learning how we best cope.

Lots of love

Jq xxx


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## hornauth (Nov 16, 2005)

I read this post and just felt i had to reply.

my sister had a child before i knew we'd have any difficulty in falling pregnant so before my emotions were all over the place, and i adore my niece who's now nearly 10.    i can't imagine ever not having been in her life so i'd urge you to stay in close contact with your brother...this child is going to be your niece or nephew and no matter how upset you are at the moment, you'll love this kid with absolute devotion..believe me!

i know how you feel at the moment, but it will get easier.  since we started ttc, all but 1 of my friends have had kids...some have 3!  some of these friends tried ttc, others had "accidents".  and yes it's difficult as time goes on and i'm never the 1 telling my family and friends that we're expecting a baby.  but i'm always happy for them (maybe a bit jealous but i get over that) and when the baby comes along i adore them also.  in a close circle of friends that we see all the time there are a total of 6 kids and i don't resent any 1 of them.

when we're out with friends, yes a lot of the conversations are about kids etc....but try to enjoy these conversations...finding out about what they're up to instead of letting it upset you.

please try and be happy for you brother and SIL.....and think of the fun and laughter this wee kid will bring to your family as a whole.    you'll love it unconditionally and i'd hate for you to miss out on that.


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

I hear what you're saying debbied25 and I appreciate you sharing your views here too. I'm sorry you have had to deal with people all around you getting pregnant, I know that can't have been easy for you.

From personal experience I have often found its not so much the end result of a child being born that is the hardest part to bear, its seeing and hearing about the pregnancy, and the whole shebang that comes with someone being pregnant.

Its difficult seeing and hearing the joy of the parents to be when you have waited so long for something like that to happen to you, its heartbreaking seeing all the little bits and pieces people gather together in preparation for their little bundle of joy. Its feeling like you are left out in the cold because you aren't a part of this special 'club', its the desolation of knowing that this is something you are never going to be able to acheive.

Its many, many griefs all rolled together in one and its something that has to be one of the worst things to go through - as one of the ladies here earlier already said its facing a bereavement for the things you will never have, for the future you thought would one day be yours. So I don't think its necessarily jealousy that Liliachia is going through, but deep, heartfelt, despondant grief for her own circumstances. Grief for her future that could have been, grief for the hopes that once were and are no more. Just because there isn't a tangible loss doesn't diminish the grief any less - and we have no way of marking that grief to the outside world.

Another thing that Liliachia is having to deal with at the moment are people telling her they know about her having treatment, people that she never planned to share the information with. I know how soul destroying it can be to have this news sprung on you when least expected - at the end of the day making a baby is something that is very personal to us all, and not something many of us would like to be the subject of gossip about - this can add to our sense of isolation.

So, although Liliachia is hurting at the moment, I think she is also a very wise lady sharing her emotions here with us - many of us have been at that very same place where she stands now. Just because she is grieving about the raw deal life has handed her in the IF department doesn't mean she will love this potential nephew or niece any less when they arrive. Its just the shock of the news and they way it has been dealt to her, and the discussions carrying on around her, and the million and one things that go through your mind at a time like this at this particular moment in time.

Love,
Emcee xxx


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

That was a fine post Emcee.

Just to add a perspective from my own experience. 

I have wonderful relationships with the newphews and niece on DH's side who arrived before we even knew we had a problem. We got to know and love them before the pain of IF kicked in and we continued to enjoy our relationships with them even while we underwent all the heartache of IF. So I understand what Debbied means when she writes of the joy that children in the family can bring.

Now the TX journey and 7 miscarriages lie far behind me, my own brother is soon to become a dad for the first time. This feels very different. I know I will be fine and will love this new neice or nephew too, but I do have to manage my emotions and contact at the moment.

Although I did feel left behind as my friends continued to reproduce, the feelings were nowhere near as intense as those of feeling left out within your own family. As I said above, most people have at least a bit of sibling rivalry. However much we love our brothers and sisters, this seems to be part of the human psyche.  So we may feel jealous when they get what we can't have. Some readers here will know I believe that those feelings of jealousy do not mark us out as bad people, but rather that the jealousy is a symptom of our grief. Pregnancy announcements tap into that well of grief and all sorts of mixed emotions emerge.

Liliacha, I hope you are feeling a bit stronger as the days pass since your post. You are not alone. Please keep in touch.

Love 

Jq xxx


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## Liliaicha (Feb 22, 2004)

I just wanted to thank everyone for their kind and supportive words, and thought I'd give you a bit of an update.

My brother came round to see me yesterday as he thought we hadn't really talked enough about the situation, and I agreed with him (surprisingly!) this had been our conversation last week:

Bro: I have some news.
Me: I think I can guess.
Bro: **** is pregnant.
Me: Oh, (tears) I'm so happy for you, (more tears). Would you like a cup of tea?
Bro: Yes please.
Me: How was your holiday? (followed by an hour of talking about nothing in particlar)

Bro: Bye then.
Me: Bye. (shut door, followed by 2 hours of hysterical crying, sobbing, screaming and banging stuff)

Anyway, I mentioned how I was feeling in my original post, and this had been building for a few days. 

I was so happy that he realised that things hadn't really been talked about, I just thought he'd carry on as normal, you know, expecting us all to go out for dinner together etc

We had a good chat, and we were both honest with each other. Our relationship is so important to us, as within our disfunctional family we have fallings out, divorce, secrets etc etc so we see our bond as quite special, and we don't want to lose that.

I told him that there is no way I can see his wife for the next however many months, and that I probably will not be asking how the pregnancy is going, but that doesn't mean I don't care. He was upset by this but understands and says SIL will feel the same.  I explained to him all my feelings of anger, jealousy and upset and said that these were feelings and could not be helped, and that I was not going to feel guilty about them.

We have agreed that when we meet up it will just be me and him, to chat about stuff, and that honesty and accepting of each others feelings is the only way we can get through this - I do hope we can, and I believe that we will.

I am still raw from the announcement, but hope that in time it will become easier, and it seems that from reading other peoples posts and experiences it will.

Thank you all

L x


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Dear Liliacha,

So glad you and your brother had a good talk! Well done both of you.

Love

Jq xxx


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## hornauth (Nov 16, 2005)

I'm so happy you have had a talk with your brother.  And in time I'm sure things will get easier.  

I also just had to say that in no way was i trying to undermine your feelings, from other comments that's what i kinda felt.    i do know exactly how you feel and how everyone on this topic feels, but i just didn't want you to jeapordise your relationship with your brother and in future his child.

someone mentioned you're going through grief...and i totally totally agree with this as when we found out my DH was infertile that's the only way i can describe what my feelings were, and it's taken me a long time to come to terms with this.    And come to terms with it, yes we have, got over it, no and we never will.    we just hope with all our hearts that we will have our long awaited child through other means.    

in the meantime, we will need to go through a barage of emotions every time we hear of someone else having a baby.

i really hope you feel a bit better and i hope you find the strength and courage to help you through the next few months.

x


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Hello,

Thanks for posting again, Debbied. 

I was trying to reassure L that it is "normal" (hate that word) to feel all sorts of raw emotions at first hearing news of pg in the family after coming to the end of our own ttc road. (We tend to be a bit protective on this board!) 

Debbied, your second post describes how you have been through this too. You have been very strong in coming to terms with it, and I fully understand what you are saying about coming to terms with it does not mean you are "over it." As we recognise here, IF does have reverberations that go on and on. As time passes it does get easier to manage these. You are right that sustaining positive family relationships is really important. It's good news that L has had a good talk with her brother isn't it! It sounds like you two do indeed have a special bond, L.

Dd -  lots of luck with trying to have a family some other way. (Guess you are looking at adoption?)

Keep posting!

Love,

Jq xxx


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Hi Debbied, good to see you.

I am sorry if you felt anyone was picking your post to bits. What I was trying to get across was more for Liliachias sake - that she shouldn't feel bad about how she is feeling at this particular moment in time, and that just because of the pain she is going through now it doesn't mean she will not grow to love the new addition in the future.

Often people think that those of us who have had problems in the getting pregnant department are jealous of those who are successful... I tend to think jealousy is only one facet of the many multitudes of emotions we have... we don't seem to be 'allowed' by 'normal' (argh - for want of a better word too jq)! society to grieve - infertility is the hidden heartache carried by many, and often still a taboo subject nowadays.

I hope that you get your wish hon, it sounds like you and your DH have been through an awful lot.

Liliaicha, I'm really glad the lines of communication are up and running with your brother. Can understand the sentiments behind Debbied's message to you about losing your brother - IF has robbed many of us of so much it would be a great pity to lose the close and loving relationship that you have with bro. I'll quote you some words once said to me when faced with similar circumstances 'just remember to keep breathing'

Same goes for all of us here!

Love
Emcee x


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