# High DNA fragmentation



## colabottle (Aug 30, 2012)

Hi everyone,
Im new to this ttc with assistance side of things and only last week we found out my husband has a DNA fragmentation of 30.5
The news was given to us from the embryologist at our clinic followed with suggestions of ICSI and also possbile donor sperm to be used.
To say the last week has been stressful is an understatement. We concieved in Nov '11 and i miscarried Jan '12 (11wks + 4days)
We are to attend the clinic again for more feedback today as well as a plan of action.
From what i can see its recommended to take high dose multivitamins (especially C and E) and other lifestyle changes can be made (lose trousers, no mobile phone in pocket, cut down on booze and cigs which my fella doesnt take either of these)
I suppose in a nutshell what im looking for here is a message of hope that this can be improved upon. We do not want to think of donor sperm at all. 
I am hoping to get my husbadn to a urologist in the near future to check out the mechanics down there to make sure thats all ok.
ANy advice and help here would be so much appreciated ... we both feel a bit lost at the moment and only want to feel better that things could happen for us.


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## rs1984 (Dec 5, 2011)

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=291419.0

Cola, I don't think it's really really bad. I thought 25% was the cut off so he's only just over that. I looked into this a few months ago as DH had the test (he passed). I've copied a link to another thread here. Definitely do more research into options and speak to a specialist - I hear that 3 months of vits and anitbiotics can make a difference so you could give that a go before donors. You may still need ICSI but that's very common anyway but your docs should at least discuss your options for own sperm first.


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## colabottle (Aug 30, 2012)

Hya rs1984
thank you so much for your reply.
We met with the consultant yesterday and im scratching my head since cause what she said just doesnt corrolate with what info i have been able to find out myself.
Basically she said that DNA frag at 30.5 is not that bad, and that she wants hubby to take 10wks of vits and all the lifestyle changes possible to make an improvement in this time.
She said also that all other semen analysis paramaters were normal and that she would have expected some sort of abnormality else where if DNA were this damaged (ie morphology etc)
Im a bit lost, she wants us to ttc normally for the next 10wks and retest and see what the story is.
She also put him on a sleeping tablet to bring it down (lots of research in this area to suggest it helps reduce DNA frag)
Its just a strage position to be in cause last week we were told by the embryology guy we may have to go down donor sperm route and now alls kinda hunky dorey
I dont know..and im petrified of ttc and having another miscarriage cause of flippin DNA fragmentation!


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## rs1984 (Dec 5, 2011)

That's encouraging Cola. In the grand scheme of things, 10 weeks isn't that long. If it was me I'd do what they say, try naturally, take all the tablets you can and retest in 10 weeks. patience isn't my strong point and I hate waiting but this is a long game isn't it? Try to relax and enjoy yourselves


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## marvin197 (Dec 2, 2010)

hi cola

rather than go into too much detail, go down a few pages to my post 'ICSI take two'

my wife and i were orginally told to adopt or get donor sperm due to my incredibly low count.  the first round of ICSI failed in their view because of DNA fragmentation.  i was also put onto high doses of vitamin c and zinc and one other than i cant remember.  i stopped drinking completely, stopped coffee and drank loads of green tea (for the antioxidants).

my twins are 1 next month....


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## elisabethforum (Dec 14, 2012)

Hi Cola,

We've just found out (10 days into downreg for IVF #1) that my DH's DNA frag is 32%.  So IVF has become ICSI and like you we're upset and very worried by what we've read.  This seems to explain 2 years on "unexplained" - my results are great for my age (33) and morphology/motility are well above average.

Our consultant has suggested it doesn't really alter our chances as long as we use ICSI but this really doesn't seem to fit with what I've read.  Not sure whether to delay and pump him full of antioxidants but to be honest he's aleady on vitamin c and multivits and generally extremely gealthy so I'm not sure it would make a difference to us.

Really interested in how you've got on.

Lisa


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## babywant321 (Apr 29, 2012)

Hi All

Interesting discussion

People with azzoospermia have only at times ONE sperm

I am sure they dont bother with even looking at the DNA

So whether the DNA is good or bad, sperm rebuilds every 3 months

Thus is it safer just to keep trying and live a healthy life??

Im in  a similar position

Does high dna frag mean no baby EVEN WITH ICSI

pls advise


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## colabottle (Aug 30, 2012)

Im only seeing this question now babywant, apologies for the late reply.
Since i posted in August last we followed all advice (well most!) on healthy lifestyle (my DH didnt give up booze completely but hes not a big drinker) he didnt take the circadin (sleeping tablet as he funnily enough found it messed up his sleep completely!) and took vits and mins as advised (he did this as i hate to sound like a draggon here but i made sure of it!!)
Im now 20 weeks pregnant.... and naturally too!! It was a shock getting the BFP and then tender hooks on was i going to mc or not.... but today i feel baba kicking away and all scans so far are perfect thank god.
Im not sure on low sperm count and testing DNA frag, what the embryologist fella said to us was ... oh by the way the re test of the DNA frag after the 10 weeks god worse and now 37.5% ... but the embryologist said that 37.5% of that sample were not healthy sperm at all.. but that the rest are healthy. 
Im not the only one to concieve naturally with high DNA frag, we were advised to go for ICSI next time as DHs results got bad quickly!!
Im not sure if we will go again...its one day at a time for me right now!
Im sure that having a high DNA frag doesnt mean no baby at all, lots of ladies have gone though ICSI wtih very positive outcomes so hang in there and have hope cause for what was put to us last August (think of using donor sperm) im now 20wks pregnant naturally with thank god a healthy baby so far so its very possible..... you have to believe that and aim for it so that it keeps you going on this really tough emotional rollercoaster.
I hope my post has helped someone here .... the very best of luck to you all.xx


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## rs1984 (Dec 5, 2011)

Congrats colabottle - lovely news!


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## Tilia (Feb 20, 2013)

Congratulations colabottle!

Just wanted to share our story: DH had high DNA fragmentation, can't remember exactly but somewhere around 35, anyway it was graded as "poor". Dr said it reduces the likelyhood of conception, but doesn't make it impossible. Also increases miscarriage risk. DH was advised the following: no smoking (he was a social smoker but quit completely then), no more than 5 units of alcohol per week, no more than 1 coffee per day, no tight underwear, needs to take male fertility vitamins, needs to take high antioxidant powder (acai berry) daily. He did this and in the re-test (which was about 1.5 years later though) the DNA fragmentation came back as 6 ie "excellent". 

(We didn't conceive naturally but that was mainly because of my problems, not sperm issues.)


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

We had high DNA fragmentation 25% and above it's now 32%  and we've been recommended and now going ahead with DS, as she said like we had our miscarriage first round, and despite fertilising she said it could happen again and to raise the maximum chances of a pregnancy. We've done accupuncture, Chinese herbs, never smoked, given up alcohol, vits, high dose AB's - this is the track that Serum in Greece go down. There's te Australian protocol hat says ejaculate daily as the sperm in the tubules causes high fragmentation.
At the end of the day we want a baby hence we've moved to DS after 8 yrs. of course I wish I was till using my eggs and sperm


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## Silver star (Aug 13, 2012)

CAN YOU HELP ? 
Where do I go to get my DH sperm tested , more than just what they do on the NHS , so may be a DHA frag test, 
He had cemo , it's been about 15m since  his last cemo , 
The problem is the NHS did freeze his sperm , but we can't no ship to serum ( I could scream ) 
So we will have to use fresh , due to the meds my DH is on he can not take any vi tams to supplement to boast his sperm , 
So it would be good to see what we are playing with , so to speck !
Penny is happy to use fresh ( pre cemo would of been so much better ) 
He had his sperm tested at the end of last year , and to quote my DH when I asked him how it went " it's doing about 40% of what it should be doing " 
This did not help me , but did not want to push it as I can understand how hard this all is for him , I was going on about IVF , and he is worrying he will die ! I was too ! 

Any info / help on sperm testing please ! 

Was thinking to do in the uk before we go to serum ??


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## dillydolly (Mar 11, 2005)

Silver star 
It might be cheaper to go to serum. DNA fragmentation is about £400 in UK


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## colabottle (Aug 30, 2012)

I am sorry but don't know where you go through the NHS for DNA frag tests. I'm in the South of Ireland & you pay for all these things here that are fertility related. Again I'd love to give words of encouragement here ladies, last August we were given the results of the frag test & I'm now 36 weeks pregnant! It can happen... It happened naturally for us too (no IVF / ICSI...) I know that's a bit of a miracle in itself but keep strong here cause these dreams do com through... Baby dust to you all.xx


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