# IUI with vaganismus Part 1



## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

hi everyone

I'm needing help and advice!!!!!!!!!
for those who dont know me which is probably quite a few as I only joind last week, I have been waiting to here babck from Guys hospital as to what treatment they recomend. my dx is that I have vaganismus so find sex very painfull and impossible.
Anyway heard back from hospital today, they have advised that I have IUI and that it would be best to try a natural cycle/cycles first. thing is and what I'm getting into a flap over is NHS waiting time is 18 months!!!!!!!!! wasn't expexting it to be so long. I know I'm only 22 and should be gtaratefull I have time n my side etc etc, and I am but at times, that is really of no comfort as I want to start a family now.
They have said that if I want to go private in the meantime it will cost £250 for natrual cycles which for us is quite alot of money, not sure what to do as have heard that if you go private you loose some of you nhs funding is this true also if we go private will it make our wait on the NHS longer?
we only have funding for 3 goes on the Nhs so am thinking that it would be better to fund the natural cycles ourselves at £250 and save funding  incase we need medication which costs from £500 a go!!!!!!
sorry if I've waffeled on so confused!!!!!! 

happy new year to all Donna


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## Candy (Mar 8, 2004)

Donna

I am not sure about your question on going private, but I did read that if the new rule is introduced to offer everyone, one free go at IVF regardless of where they live, that you will only be entiltled if a new referel and not if you have ad previous treatment, not sure if this is correct but something I read, so its worth asking your clinic or primary health care trust, b4 you decide, unless anyone hear can answer you.

A natural cycle of IUI would be a good way to start and is normally much cheaper than a medicated cycle, we paid £500 a cycle excluding drugs.  So I think if you do decide to go private, you are best off starting with the non medicated and using your 3 goes on the NHS for the more expensive cycles, having said that you may get lucky first time, which would be fabulous.

It is hard to get your head round all this, but I wish you all the luck in the world with your decisiona nd tonnes of babydust 

 

Sims, you must be at the end of your 2ww now, really hope it was good news    your symptons with the cycolgest are very normal 

Candy x


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

candy,

Thank you for your reply, Dh and I have talked and talked and talked but it is really hard to come to a final decisicion!
Think we going to go private and save our funding for if/when we need more complicated expensive treatment.

going to ring hospital to make an appointment to discuss everything and hospital want to give me vaginal scan and check that they are able to insert a spectulum without causing me to much pain before we start anytreatment, so hope I wont have to wait to long for appointment.

just trying to find ways of saving every penny we can now which wont be easy but we have to do it!

thanks Donna

p.s if anyone else as any advice please post.


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hello Donna,

I have vaginismus too! I've never seen a mention of it on here before. 

We are trying to get NHS treatment but if we can't will go private. I made some enquiries at Guys and found they didn't really know anything about vag. or seem very keen to help. Perhaps it depends who you speak to. A lot of doctors and nurses don't seem to know much about it. Quite a few told me I should cure myself of the vag. and then come back. If only it was that simple! The London Fertility Centre do have experience of treating vag. patients and seemed very helpful on the phone, but they charge a small fortune!

I had a vaginal dilation operation at Luton and Dunstable in November (and a lap and dye at the same time), to see if that would help make sex easier, but it doesn't seem to have made a difference! I have a follow-up appointment in a couple of weeks, and will find out then if they will offer IUI on the NHS. If they don't we will go private. 

In the meantime we are trying home artificial insemination (using a syringe, which I can insert a little way) as we figure there is nothing to lose.

Are you having treatment for the vag? I've just started psychosexual counselling after being on an NHS waiting list for nearly a year. 

Good luck with everything,

Emma


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## Candy (Mar 8, 2004)

Welcome Emma, so glad you have posted as hopefully you can support each other.

Donna, u r right its a toughy decision wise, hopefully you can get an appointment to have the scan to check its not too painful for you (Fingser crossed) then once you know that you are suitable, you can take it from there, good luck.


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Emma,

Wow you dont know how happy I am to find some one in the same boat as me, as I sometimes feel that I am the only one! so glad to hear from!
I f you dont mind can I ask you a few questions, if I'm asking too much please don't be offended.

If you dont mind me asking how long have you had vag? have you ever had penetrative sex? I have never been able to do this.
Do you no what caused/triggered your vag?
How long have you been ttc?

My DH and I had pyscosexual councelling a few years ago we found it very helpfull but unfortunatly it didn't help us achieve our overall aim, but did help us in many ways so all the best for that! let me knoe how you find it.
we decided to stop with the councelling as it seemed that the aim to have full sex was taking over our lifes and there is so much more to our relationship than that. we are able to fully satisfy one another so it didn't seem that important at that time, until we wanted children!

we worked very closely with my family planning clinic, maybe this is something you could investigate as they have refered us to all the right people. I am currently having treatment for vag at Lewisham hosp, where I have been given a couple of small dilators to insert at home, however we have found that the best thing to use are vibrators, don't know if you would feel comfortable using them as it took me along time, but it is a way of including you partner and if you incorperate into you sexual activity it is alot easier as you produce more natural lubricate and the enjoyment kinda takes over (sorry if I'm being grafic!) Dilators are not that sexy!

I am having treatment myself at Guys so am suprised to hear that you didn't find them helpfull, I saw Dr Emma Sowerby who is part of the gyne team and she was very helpfull and as a result we are on the Nhs waiting list for IUI however this is 18 months so are thinking of going private ourselves.
I am going to make an appointment tomorrow to return to guys to discuss going private as it is a tricky decision to make and so they can perform a vaginal scan, and insert a spectulum to insure i'll be able to cope with it for treatment.

sorry think I'm waffeling on abit hope you didn't mind me asking you some questions if you want to ask me any please go ahead.

all the girls on here are very supportive but thinking and hoping we will be a greater support for one another as we are going through the same thing, for us it isn't a stright cut infertility case. (not that infertility is straight cut but you know what I mean)

hoping i've helped it was great to hear from you, hoping to hear again soon

Donna  

p.s have you or your partner had any fertilty tests done like blood tests or sperm analysis?


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hello Donna,

I'm so glad you replied. I was so pleased to see someone else write about vag on here. I'm sure there must be other people with it too. I'd thought about posting something about it before now, but never plucked up the courage!

I'll try and answer all your Qs. I've had vag for at least 11 years. I've only ever had one partner (husband, been married for 7 years). I hadn't even heard of vag until I went to my GP about a year ago. I thought that I was a freak, and that no-one else had the same problem. I've never managed penetrative sex. The reason I finally went to the GP was because I desperately want to have children, and finally realised that things weren't going to miraculously sort themselves out. This GP, new to me then (I'd just moved) was very understanding; previous GPs had never seemed very approachable.

I suspect that my vag is partly caused by a horrible childhood; I was emotionally abused by my mother (I don't mind going into that in more detail if it helps), and was never shown any affection or touching of any kind. I also had no sex education at all. Then I think my first experiences of attempting sex were so disastrous that it has become such a big deal in my head. 

The dilators freak me out. My psychosexual counsellor doesn't use them, and prefers to get patients to insert their finger. I've started this but haven't made any progress yet. I can't get tampons in either.

Your positive experiences of Guys have made me think twice about them. I didn't speak to a doctor, only a nurse. They were originally my first choice if we had to go private, mainly because it is opposite where my dh works (convenient for giving that sample!).

I have had some tests. I had the blood tests done at St Albans hospital and again at Luton and Dunstable, all fine. My husband has done 2 semen analysis tests, both of which showed poor motility; that may be a problem. He had them done at St Albans. However the consultant at LandD said that they measure it in such a peculiar way at St Albans that the results are meaningless. I don't know what to believe! I have also had a vaginal and abdominal ultrasound scan at St Albans. The abdominal one showed that my uterus was tilted, and blocked the view of the ovaries. I couldn't manage the vaginal one because of the vag; I was climbing the walls when they tried to insert the wand! The consultant at LandD somehow managed to insert a speculum (child sized), and did a lap and dye (showed everything was fine).

I don't really know what will happen now. I go back to LandD on the 17th. I want to tackle the vag, but because of my age I can't wait for that before ttc naturally. I'm trying to see the vag and the fertility treatment as separate issues.

There are websites with details of how to inseminate at home. We tried that for the first time a few days ago, but I can only get the syringe in about 2-3cm! We had 5 attempts, but I'm not really expecting anything to come of it.

Please keep me posted on how you are getting on and what you decide to do. I think it is great that you are tackling this now, whilst you have lots of time to play with, rather than sticking your head in the sand like I did. 

Best wishes,
Emma


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Emma,

I know exactly how you feel about the dilators, when we first went for treatment and pyschosexual counseling it was all I could do to insert a finger, it doesn't feel like it but looking back on it I guess I have come quite far since then and I'm sure you will to!
Again the same as you it is the want for children that has lead me back down the treatment for vag path as I haven't had treatment for couple of years couldn't see the point until I wanted children, the same as you I am treating them as issues on there own and for me the greater priority is to have children!
booked to have a vaginal scan on the 13th so not looking forward to that! they are going to insert a spectulum which if I don't get in to much of a state about should be okish as Ive had that done before so here's hoping!
DH and I have been tcc for 1 year we tried for about 7/8 months using a turkey baster! but not convinced i was inserting it far enough. had 3 more inseminations at my family planning clinic where all the staff have been very supportive, I felt the doctor there go in a lot further with the spectulum so I'm sure we weren't going in far enough before but guess it only takes 1 eh!at the family planning clinic the also used a clamp which made the whole experience worse it was very painfull but I had to go through it I want children so much! after going through that I'm sure IUI cant be that bad! 
maybe you could try getting your GP to refer you to guys as I said I saw Dr Emma Sowerby and she has been fine maybe you could ask for her??
Hoping your home insemination works then you wont have to through IUI, its a nightmare wainting for your period to come especially as preg signs are same as pre menstrual. So hoping your coping with that.

Good luck  

I am so pleased and relived to have you to talk to!

Donna xx

p.s where is it that you live?

I'm in catford which is near beckenham/Bromley/croydon if you know any of them.


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hello again Donna,

I know your part of the world very well. I used to live in Crystal Palace, and before that East Dulwich. I'm in St Albans now. The reason I've been referred to Luton and Dunstable hopsital is because my nearest hospitals (St Albans, Watford, Hemel) don't have any experience of vag. and aren't very experimental (apparently).

By coincidence, there is a post on the 'ask a nurse' section today from someone who sounds like she has vag too.

I was interested to see you went to family planning clinics to help with imsemination. I had now idea that they did that; I assumed they only offered contraception and tried to stop people becoming pregnant! did your GP tell you about this? Did they refer you or did you just go along?

I hope you aren't worrying too much about the speculum. I'll be having one of those on the 17th, but I'm trying not to think about it. 


Take care, and stay in touch,
Emma


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## Candy (Mar 8, 2004)

Hi Emma, thanks for your PM, I will post it here so you both know, I agree it would be nice if there was an area for you to discuss this, but unfortunately I am only really here to help out on the IUI thread, I don't have any say on the running of the actual forum, so how about I split this topic so your part is seperate and we can title it something like "IUI with vaganismus" at least it will give you somewhere to post and if new people search for that word they will see your thread here, if it grows, you will get a new home like the IUI girls, so it will be part2 and so on ?


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Candy,

Thank you that would be really good, as I'm sure we are not hte only 2, think people find it hard to come forward. I know it took me a long time to openly talk about it.

Thank you Donna xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Emma,

I was already seeing the family planning clinic for contraception, from when I was 17 I never stopped taking it as always thought that I might have sex soon so didn't want to stop just in case. whilst there for a check up the nurse talked to me about having a smear test which scared the hell out of me so explained to her about the vag ( didn't know it was that then though just thought I was a freak!) I then got put in touch with a psycosexual counselor almost straight away so was surprised you had waited so long.
As the family planning clinic where helpfull on that front when I stopped taking the pill so we could ttc I went down to see them for some advice this is when they told me to try a few times on my own if I wasn't successful then to come back and see them.
I think I may have been lucky as all the team at sydenham green family planning clinic are very good.
The doctor who agreed to do the insemination was Dr Lesley Bacon she has been very supportive and is based at honor oak park I think.

Just pop down to your local clinic and have a chat with one of the family planning team, they also have the same power as your GP and can refer you on.
I was referred to Guys from the family Planning, I have never been to my GP about vag or ttc as I have had all the medical support from the family planning so I would defiantly advice you give them a try, go to the next walk in clinic you have nothing to loose.

Best wishes

Donna xx


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## Candy (Mar 8, 2004)

Sorry girls, I kinda messed up splitting the posts and ended up with two, so will close this one and refer you to your new home, hope its not too confusing.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=20181.msg248126#msg248126

Good luck


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## Candy (Mar 8, 2004)

Sorry guys I messed up splitting your posts and ended up with two, I have closed part 1 and referred anyone looking at it to this one part 2.

Just for reference Donnas initial post was



Donna Taylor said:


> hi everyone
> 
> I'm needing help and advice!!!!!!!!!
> for those who dont know me which is probably quite a few as I only joind last week, I have been waiting to here babck from Guys hospital as to what treatment they recomend. my dx is that I have vaganismus so find sex very painfull and impossible.
> ...


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Emma,

How are you? how is the counseling going?
got a letter from Guys telling us the waiting list is 2-3 yrs not 18 months! thinking and hoping that they have made a mistake as letter talks about ivf not iui!!!
Will discuss it when we return on Thursday. still not to sure how we are going to afford to go private but guess we'll have to find away!

Take care

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

That sounds a ridiculously long time! Let's hope they have made a mistake. 

I suddenly realised today that I had made a mistake in my posts. It was Barts not Guys that I had had a disappointing experience with. I hadn't tried Guys at all! I think I've looked at so many options so many times that they've all got confused in my head.

I haven't had a counselling session since just before Christmas. My next one is on Tuesday. I'm looking forward to it and dreading it at the same time! At the last one she made me talk about my childhood and I cried, and I feel a bit embarrassed about that. I'm determined not to cry at the next one! I find it very hard to know what she is thinking, and that freaks me out a bit. It seems really one-sided for me to tell her the most private details of my life and yet I know nothing about her. I know that's how counselling must work but I haven't got used to that yet.

Do you mind me asking what you think caused your vag? I think mine stems from a horrible childhood (emotional abuse, lack of sex education etc). I was attacked a few years ago (he picked the wrong person to try to rape!) but I don't really see how that made a difference because it occurred well after I already had this problem.

I actually feel very positive at the moment that I can beat the vag and conceive, even if the latter has to be with IUI.

Do your family or friends know about the vag or about your plans to have IUI? Mine don't on either score.

Take care,

Emma


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Emma,

I know what you mean about the counseling it is hard to open up to a complete stranger, but try to remember that anything you say she has probably heard before, she wont judge you about anything you say and if she does she shouldn't be doing the job! do you go alone to the sessions or with DH?
Hope all goes well on Tuesday, it does take time to relax into it and don't worry about crying you shouldn't feel embarrassed it isn't wrong to show your emotions!

Not to sure what caused my vag, don't have any bad experiences in my childhood that I know of and sex was always openly discussed in my family so its not that I feel ashamed or dirty or anything like some women do.
Think it started because I built sex up to be such a big deal in my head, When I met my husband I was 17 and hadn't had many boyfriends or experience. I had never even touched a man before! My husband is also a virgin so think we both just got into such a state about it. At first he never admitted to being a virgin told me he had slept with loads of girls so he made me more nervous with out meaning to.
We had a few tipsy/drunken attempts that failed as neither of us wanted our first time to be when we were drunk but I felt I needed it to relax.
When we did finally try properly it really hurt me, but friends had said first time hurts everyone etc etc, so me like a fool thinking the pain was normal laid there in pain, crying with pain and told him to carry on as I thought once we did it once the pain would be gone! how wrong!
because of the extreme pain I went through think my body just stops me going through it again. I know there is no reason why I cant have sex, I've been examined and there is no medical reason it is all in my head which is so frustrating!!! I am hoping that one day I Will beat it.

My immediate family and a couple of close friends know about the vag and IUI. They try there best and are supportive but don't really understand completely.
some people think I shouldn't be having IUI as I should beat vag first. As I'm only 22 they don't see why I'm in a rush to have kids I find that most frustrating that they don't understand my desire to have children.

Sorry to here about your attack, It cant have helped your situation and/or feelings.

Not sure how I feel a the moment have days when I feel positive about vag and getting pregnant. but at the moment feel so confussed and scared by it all, there are so many decisions to make and still don't know how we can afford to go private but cant wait for NHS as its to long, Hoping things will be clearer after appointment on Thur.

sorry think I've babbled on as usually

talk soon

Donna xx

p.s maybe worth you giving Guys a try


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## Janicel (Jan 2, 2005)

Hi I am a newbie here

I had the same problem - but what the doctor did was to put me in on sedation during my first IUI attempt.

Last week in my second IUI attempt, somehow the doctor manage to encourage me, there was minimal pain and sedation is no longer required. Hopefully I will get pregnant and dun have to go through the IUI again....


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

thanks for you post, we are hoping that others will have the courage to talk about vag as most women are ashamed, I know I was!
Great news about your second IUI attempted, are you in 2 week wait now? I'll be thinking of you and hope it works!!!

Keep us posted on your progress.

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hello Janicel,

Thanks for your post. It really helps to know that other people are out there and have found ways around the problems of ttc with vag. 

Could I ask a few Qs: where are you having treatment? Is it on the NHS or did you go private? What does the sedation involve? Is it like a general anaesthetic or do they numb you 'down there'? How do you feel afterwards?

All the best with your 2ww; I hope it all works out for you.

Emma


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## Janicel (Jan 2, 2005)

Hi Emma, to answer some of your Qs

I am not in UK, actually I am in the other part of the world - Kuala Lumpur

Went to a private centre (supposedly the 'best' in KL - they actually have 50% success rate for IVFs according to local professional medical journal)

I was on general anaesthetic - it was very swift. My heart was pumping very fast but before you know it, I woke up in another room and do not remember anything on the IUI.

The second time was good in the sense that my doc assured me that I can do it and to 'minimise pressure', he proposed IUI without sedation but will go for light sedation in the event is painful. During the IUI process, initially it was painful and he tried to calm me down by asking me to think of the nice things in life. He kept talking to me and actually asked me to cough out loud (Dun know why is that so until now). Somehow the pain slowly went away and everything was done in minutes !!.

Well, that was how it went..

My other worry now, as a result of the problem I had, my DH now has erection problems....sigh...one problem after another. We will try to focus on that once the baby issue is resolved.


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

I had another counselling session today. I always feel really worked up and restless afterwards. I didn't think it went very well. The doctor made me feel very uncomfortable (she would probabaly say I did that to myself) and kept asking why I felt uncomfortable and anxious, and kept leaving long silences. I thought we were there to talk about sex! She only brough that up just as the session was coming to an end. Perhaps next week will be better....!

Emma


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Hang in there Emma hopefully it will get better and your be able to relax more.
It is frustrating when they want to talk about background stuff when you want to talk about sex but have to build up history I guess.
Think I asked before but does DH go with you to sessions?

Getting really anxious and stressed bout appointment in Thur, beginning to think as I've done research at other clinics that private price of £250 that guys quoted for iui contains hidden charges and it will cost loads more! bit stuffed if it does.

feeling bit down bout it all.

hope you feel better

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hello Donna,

How did your appointment go? Have you decided what to do? Are there lots of hidden charges involved?

Well, I got my period today so our attempts at home insemination with the syringe didn't work this time. I guess the odds were low as I couldn't get the syringe in very far at all, and my dh's sperm has low motility. I didn't really expect it to work, but I still hoped that a miracle would occur. I'm confused too, as my cycle is always 26 days, but my period has arrived 3 days early. I don't know when my fertile days will be next time. Perhaps we'd better get the syringe out every day from now on just to be sure!

I've got an appointment with the consultant at Luton and Dunstable Hospital on Monday where I hope to find out what happens next. I'm worried he'll tell me that I'm not a candidate for IUI after all. If so we will go private, but it is so expensive isn't it. We are having a lot of buidling work done to the house next month and just can't manage to pay for IUI on top of that right now.

I've got counselling on Tuesday too. I'm dreading that too! My dh doesn't come as he can't get time off work in the middle of the day; he works very long hours in London.

Do you find it hard to switch off from all this and get on with everyday life? I certainly do at the moment.

Hope to hear from you soon,

Emma, x


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Hi Emma

I completely agree at the moment I cant get babies, IUI and all things related out of my head. Feel as though it is taking over my life.

Appointment went so much better than I expected. I really would reccomend that if possible you get an appointment at guys with Emma Sowerby. (Maybe GP could refer you) 
The Vaginal Scan was fine Emma put me at so much ease I was fairly relaxed and the scan didn't hurt at all, she was busily chatting away to me that I almost forgot what was going on.
Inserting the spectulum was quite painfull but the IUI procedure is very quick so I know I will be able to cope with it when the procedure is done for real.

We have decided to go private as we cant wait 18 months, The cost given by guys (£250) is correct and is the full payment which I was very surprised about as had contacted some other clinics who had quoted me £850 for treatment with payments of £120 for consultations etc making full payment approx £1000!!!!!!!!!

We had to get a loan for treatment though and I will be making an appointment with the IUI nurses at Guys on Monday to get treatment under way, First appointment will be to sign consent forms and pay but not sure how soon after that treatment will begin, I ovulate at the end of the month so hoping that is when we will have first treatment.

Not sure if it is a side effect but since my hospital appointment ( where they performed IUI, but without any sperm to see if I could cope) I have had really painfull stomach cramps and back ache, I due for my period to so the pain has been even worse.

Hope you get on well with you next counseling session, if you don't feel you are getting anywhere try the family planning clinic as they put me in touch with some great people, it was free and I didn't have to wait, may be worth a try.

Also if you do decide to go private do try Guys if you can because it seems alot cheaper and they are very caring and sympathetic about vag - they make time for you.


Wishing lots of luck, keep in touch and if it all gets to much you have me to talk to. we're kinda in this together, we share the same feelings and concerns.

stay positive, sorry about your period arriving.

Donna xx

P.S Feeling really scared now as treatment is actually happening be wanting it for so long nut know its here feels a bit weird.


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hello Donna,

I'm so glad to hear that things went really well for you at Guy's. It sounds like it will all be happening for you soon!!! I've just looked at their website, and it all sounds very impressive. Did they explain why IUI costs less there than at other hospitals? If things don't work out at Luton I think I'll be coming there too.

Did you get a GP referral before starting? How long did that take?

Their website says that the dh has to give a semen sample at the first interview, taken up to one hour before. Sorry to be nosey, but did your dh create the sample at the hospital or did you bring it with you? I don't think we could get there in an hour. Perhaps he'd have to do it in the toilets at work!!!! He's done the sample twice before, but we only live 15 minutes drive from St Albans hospital.

I can't wait to hear how you get on on Monday. I hope the cramps have cleared up.

Take care,

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Emma,

we got referred from the family planning clinic, it took 13 weeks to get first appointment but the first appointment was with gyne, since then everything has been quite quick.
Guys has rooms for DH to produce his sample I haven't seen them but hubby says they are nice, comfortable and relaxed. Big sofa, cushions and magazines! He was used to smelly toilets before then!

No I didn't think to ask why Guys was so much cheaper, Good question though!

Hope it goes well for you at luton and you don't need to come to guys, but if you do at least we will be going through the same thing at the same place. You don't know how good it feels to know somebody at the exactly same stage as me with the same problems.

I'm only phoning to make an appointment on Monday but so far appointments have been quick so will hopefully see them end of week or beginning of next!
Cramps seem bit better today, period as arrived so that could be why, but sure the cramps had more to do with the IUI because I've never suffered for 3 days with period cramps this intense. Just another thing I'll go through to get my baby I guess.

Hope you are well, keep in touch with any progress

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hello again Donna,

I can't tell you how wonderful it is to have someone who understands my situation to talk to!

I had my appointment at Luton this afternoon. The consultant decided that the vaginal dilation operation hadn't achieved anything. He still wants to tackle the vaginismus to allow me to concieve naturally though, before resorting to IUI. I can't help thinking IUI would be a lot easier! He brought out a set of the dreaded dilators. Did you ever try those? He put number 1 in all the way - it amazed me - but then took it out and made me try. I just could not do it. I was there for an hour trying to get this thing in. In the end he sent me home with it, and said I have to practice for a couple of weeks then go back. If I'm still getting nowhere, he wants to do something called a Fenton's procedure; this involves cutting open the vagina, and stitching it back to make it wider. I don't know what to think. I need to be convinced that it is worth putting myself through another GA so soon.
I feel shattered now! I've got the counsellling tomorrow. Perhaps I'll take the dilator along!
Hope you are OK,

Emma,xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

hi Emma,

Not sure what to think about another operation, all depends if your vag is medical or psychological if you get me. Mine is all in my head I know there is no reason why I cant have sex or put the dilators inside me but I just cant do it, there is no medical reason everything is fine down below its just psychological now if that makes sense. So for me no operations would help as it is something that I have to deal with and get over myself. I am making progress with vag but in very small steps that is why I have opted for IUI rather than waiting to beat vag then conceive naturally, because I don't know how long that will take as it could years to get over it. hope all that makes sense, only you know if an operation makes sense for you as obviously all vag is different.
At present I am still plodding along with vag and am hoping that if I haven't beaten it by then, having a baby will help me.
Cant you do both? continue with counseling and dilators and have IUI?

Phoned hospital today they wanted me to go in on wed but I couldn't get that day off work so have to wait 2 weeks. so going back on 2nd Feb.

Seeing doc for vag on 1st of Feb, I have been given dilators I have got size 2 and 3 (3 is still in the packet) but have found it easier to use a small vibrator, about size 1 as DH can be involved then and it helps to insert things if you are aroused.

give yourself credit for being able to let the doctor insert the dilator though that really is great, and a big step forward.
you know it can go in so in time you'll be able to do it, You did great today! you should be pleased.

hope all goes well tommorrow

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

I saw the counsellor this afternoon and it actually went really well (perhaps she was having an off day last week). I told her about the dilator, and she said that if I could fit that inside me then I could definately fit a finger. She made me try, and no luck. Then she put her finger all the way in and wiggled it around (very strange feeling). Finally she made me try again, and I managed to get it all the way in! I can't believe it! It felt really odd, but for the first time I could kind of visualise where all the bits are. 
I have to be able to try on my own at home; I haven't dared try since coming home in case it was a fluke. I've decided to put aside the dilator until  I've mastered the finger for sure.

Emma


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Emma  

you must be so pleased that is great news and such a big step forward!!!!!!
well done 

glad that counseling is finally have an effect and you feel it is helping, it does sometimes take time.

have you made any decisions about another operation? will hospital not help you conceive until you have beaten vag?

take care, you must be proud of yourself

Donna xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

hi Emma,

Don't know how you would feel about this but do you have a hotmail/msn account? if you do can I have your address then we will be able to have more of a conversation when we are both online. only a thought

hope you are well

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

I don't have one, but it's a great idea! I'll sort it out and get back to you. 

I managed to insert a finger again yesterday and today at home! 

In answer to your question, the hospital won't offer IUI until I've tried to beat the vag, whether by dilators or with this operation. They'll only offer it if they fail or if my they decide that my dh's sperm need some assistance. I reckon that we'll try again with the syringe for the next couple of months (I should be able to get it further in next time) then take a view about private treatment. 

Hope all is well with you. Feb 2nd will come round in no time!

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Emma,

That is great news about being able to insert a finger, you have done really well. Hopefully your steadily progress from here on, although as we both now its a long long road!

As I have said to you before Guys will treat you no problem so you don't have to worry about not being able to have treatment, whenever your ready I am sure hey will be able to help if no one else will.

2nd of Feb will soon be here I know, Have down days where I'm tearfull and really stressed but then others I am really excited by it all, then I start dreaming of IUI working but don't want to do that as setting myself up for a fall.

Really glad you are doing so well 

Talk soon

Donna xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

hi emma,

Haven't heard from you for a few days, hope all is ok and you are well

Talk soon

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

Sorry not to have posted for a few days. I have a mock exam tomorrow and I've been trying to revise for that. 

I have been making some progress with the vag. I have been practicing putting one finger in, and that is OK. Today I had counselling again, and the doctor encouraged me to put 2 fingers in! I can't quite believe I managed it! I still can't get the first dilator in though....

We tried again with the syringe at the weekend, and this time I was able to get it all the way in, which must increase the chances. Unfortunately we planned to try 6 times, but only managed 3. I can't even be sure that we got the right days as my last period was 4 days early; normally I'm as regular as clockwork. I'm trying (unsuccessfully) not to think about the 2ww now.

I know what you mean about daydreaming about conceiving. I have to consciously stop myself thinking about that and baby names and baby things in general to protect myself from the disappointment. I never doubt that it will happen one day though. 

I hope you are OK. Are you still feeling stressed? 

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

hi Emma,

Whats your exam for? good luck hope all goes well.

Thats great about vag your really coming on in leaps, making better progress than I ever have! never had much luck with fingers thats why I am now trying with vibrators but progress with those is slow, but hay atleast there is still some progress.

feeling less stressed now think period hormones contributed to the stress levels, although do still have some down days about it all, but then others I feel excited and get carried away with myself and as you said imagine names, what pram I'll have all the things I don't want to think but cant help it! anyway hopefully that dream isn't to far away as back to hospital next week! just want to get started now.

good luck for exams, keep up the good work with vag  

take care Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

The exam was in horticulture; I have the real thing at the start of March. I've enjoyed the course but will be glad to get the exam over with. 

I think that I've been able to make some progress with the vag because something changed in my mind. Having the gynae consultant and the counsellor insert dilators/fingers finally convinced me that there is really a normal sized hole there! I have more confidence in my ability to deal with this condition now. Perhaps knowing that there are other ways to get pregnant (IUI, syringe etc) takes some of the pressure off the importance of 'normal' penetration.

Hope you are OK. Not long to go now!

Emma, xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

Just a quick post to wish you luck for Tuesday. I'll keep everything crossed for you!
Let me know how you get on.

Emma, xxx


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## Victoria_In_London (Jun 25, 2004)

Hi Donna and Emma

Sorry to drop in on your discussion - I think that this page could be really useful for lots of women and it's great that you've started it.

I don't have vag. but I just thought that it was worth me letting you know that you might find some useful information in books and websites aimed at lesbians trying to conceive.

The books aimed at lesbians trying to conceive talk you through how to self-inseminate at home and, because some lesbians don't ever have any penetrative sex, inserting anything large into the vagina can be painful and frightening.  I know this is not the same as vaganismus and I don't want you to think I'm trivialising your experiences but the books are quite reassuring about using very tiny syringes (and tell you where to buy them and how to use them) and also encourage you to insist that doctors use smaller speculums for internal examinations etc.  I think that some doctors use a one size fits all approach (literally) but lots of people don't fit the mould.

Anyway, I also wanted to wish you lots of luck in your quest to become pregnant.

Love Victoria
xxx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Victoria,

That's a great idea and would never have occurred to me! I'll check them out.

What you say about speculums is very important. I avoided going to see any doctor for years in case they brought out a speculum. Luckily I am now seeing a sympathetic and understanding gyane consultant who uses a child-sized speculum, and I would insist on this if I saw someone else. They even do baby-sized ones if people find the child one too big. 

It would be great if other people out there who have been diagnosed with vaginismus, or who think they might have it, would like to chat here. 

Good luck with everything,

Emma, xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Just thought I'd mention a website that I've found useful

www.fertilityplus.org/faq/homeinsem.html

It gives step-by-step guides on how to do home insemination. 

There is also a yahoo messageboard/forum for people who are ttc with vag. I've been a member for about a year and have found it incredibly helpful. The people who post there are ever so lovely and very supportive. 

Emma


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Hi Victoria,

Thanks for posting, what you said was really usefull even though I have given up on the self insemination myself it will be of use to others. It is really good to know that other people are reading our posts sometimes feels like it is just Emma and me.

feel free to chat with use if you want to.

thanks for posting

Donna xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Emma,

Thanks I'll post on here and let you know, thanks for remembering!

Wednesday appointment is the biggy as hopefully we will know when we can get started on the iui.

Have you decided whether to have another operation or not yet, as your making steady progress may not need one eh!

take care

Donna xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Emma,

Appointment today was a waste of time.
The gynea doc I see doesn't make me an actual appointment on the computer system its more of an arrangement between us, so when I arrive I have to go to reception and get them to bleep her ( they are never happy about doing this)
Arrived today told reception why I was there and to bleep her, first problem was nobody knew who she was, I'm sure they thought I was a fruit cake who had just wandered in! anyway the bleep number I have for her wasn't down as hers but they bleeped it anyway but nobody answered! then they found her name on rota and she was down for nightshift so reception told me to go home. 

when I was walking to my car I bumped into one of the ladies who was on reception who said the doc had arrived after I'd left (was tempted to point out that she did exist, but managed to bite my tongue!) so I go al the way back round to clinic and of course she isn't there, tried phoning around but couldn't find her so I left again! apparently ahe has a new bleep number that is why I could get her on one I have.
so complete waste of time really, at least I got away from work early! 
I only see her for a chat, more support really she encourages me and gives me ideas as to what to try next, I am making progress with vibrators so I'm not to bothered that I didn't see her (feel comfortable with vibe I have so may progress to bigger 1!)

Have to get tommorrow over now! feeling excited about tommorrow and a little nervous as I am hoping we will know when treatment is starting, Purse isn't at all happy about tommorrow as we have to pay 

Hope you are well
Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

Sorry to hear that you had such a frustrating experience today. I reckon its a sign that tomorrow will go really well!

It's great that you are making progress with the vibrators; I haven't dared buy (let alone use) one of those yet. Mind you, like my dh says, there is no reason why I should treat working on the vag as a punishment or homework; I could actually try to enjoy it! 

I've decided to try again with the number 1 dilator tomorrow. I can manage the 2 fingers all the time now, so it is no different really. 

Good luck tomorrow; I can't wait to hear how you get on!!!!

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Hi Emma,

Today was great although a little pointless went all the way to Guys to sign a consent form! surely we could have done that last time! anyway its all happening, am very excited and quite a bit scared!
I have to phone them when my period arrives ( expected on 13th) then on day 10 (22nd) they will do another vaginal scan  to check how my ovaries are doing. then when I ovulate around day 16 (so about 27th 28th) they will inseminate me! its all happening this months so scary! they will give me three goes on a natural cycle then review it to see if I'd be better using meds, something that I am not keen as it means more time off work because they scan you more and its more than twice the price if you use meds! cant afford the treatment really as it is!

hopefully will only need one go but reading all the stories on here I don't want to be to positive as I'll set myself up for a fall!

Thats great news that you can insert 2 fingers no problem, god you have made so much progress in a short space of time! think DH has it spot on if you've got to go through this may as well try to enjoy it!

Talk soon

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

Wow! It sounds like it will all be happening for you soon! I bet the next few weeks will feel like forever!  
I'm so pleased that it is all working out for you. 
Have they told you to make any lifestyle changes - diet, exercise, vitamins etc? 

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Emma,

Yeah its all very exciting and scary, been working towards it for so long and now in a month I could be preg (trying not to get hopes up though) have to take Folic acid but been doing that for a year so far anyway, they haven't suggested anything else but guess need to be as healthy as poss in case I get a BFP!

I try to eat all the good things anyway my problem is I eat all the bad as well! I go to the gym a couple of times a week so hoping I'm OK

Take care

Donna
xx

P.S how are things going with you? got that vibe yet?


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

I had another go with dilator #1 yesterday. At first I couldn't get it in at all, but somehow I talked myself round to being more positive and got it in a little way. Then with shear brute force I got it about 75% in, and then no more. It didn't hurt to get it in but I felt really sore for a few hours afterwards. Perhaps that's normal because I'm not used to using these muscles.  
I find the finger method much easier because there are more sensations and I have more control over them. But I can see that the dilators are a better method because the aim is ultimately to get something I don't really have control  over in there!
I'll keep practicing! It's another 10 days before I go back to see the gynae consultant.

I'm pretty sure that the syringe method hasn't worked this month. I always get a spot on my chin   just before my period comes and the spot has appeared this morning! Plus I don't feel any different. Period due on Tuesday.

Hope you are OK.

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Emma,

That is brill! you must be really pleased with yourself especially as the dilator seemed so scary before! I could never get on with dilators and only managed to insert #2 some of the way (had to start with 2 as they couldn't find a 1!)

stay positive you never know it might have worked who's to say you wont get a spot if your preg, anyway your lucky you only get 1 spot!

home insemination didn't work for use but then neither did putting DH sperm right onto my cervix! just keep telling yourself there is no reason why it cant work. I know there not best swimmeres but only takes 1 with the determination to get there and bingo 
It has worked for other people so why not you?!

Take care

Donna xxx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

I managed to get #1 in all the way yesterday, somehow. It didn't hurt this time either. I was quite surprised to find it was there really. I still feel it is more luck than anything, as I don't really have a technique. I'm having a day off from it today though.
Apologies if this is a silly question, but does your dilator have a ridge all down one side. Mine does, and I can't work out why. Perhaps I am supposed to use it a certain way up?!  Are yours the glass ones too?

Hope you are well,

Emma, xx
p.s. it may only be one spot but is is huge!!!!!


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Hi Emma 

you are doing so well, I've been talking to you for what a month? when I first spoke to you you couldn't insert a finger, now you can insert 2! and a dilator! what progress 

in answer to your questions mine are plastic, I wanted glass as the sound nicer but the doc couldn't find them so I'm using plastic. there are smooth all the way round no ridges.

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

Hope you are well. Suffering from PMT today  I've knocked over and broken far too many things today! Even though I didn't expect the syringe method to work I still hoped it would. I wish my period would just arrive now. There seem to be 100s of pregnant women out and about today!

I'm determined to manage tampons this month though. I'll let you know how I get on. I can't remember if we talked about this before, but can you use tampons?

Best wishes,
Emma


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Emma,

really sorry to hear that you don't think its worked for you this month, I know what you mean it does seem that everywhere you look there is a preg women or someone with a young baby!

Wasn't able to use tampons until a couple of months ago and was amazed that I'd used a regular one! had a box of mini that I wanted to try first but they got mixed up! just shows what you can do if you don't realize you are doing it!

Think you can still get them but lilets do some tampons that come with lubrication they were quite good and easy to insert, also make sure you use applicator tampons as they are much easier to use.
the only advice I can give you (not that I'm an expert!) is to relax and not to stress if you don't manage it this month as there is no hurry is there. 
I can insert them now but I don't use them that regular yet as not completely comfortable or confident with them.

sorry again about your pending period 

Take care 

Donna xxx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

Did a HPT this morning and it was negative.  I'm actually relieved to know though. Not knowing was driving me insane. Still no actual period yet though. 
We will try again next month. We will have to try many times (poor dh). I eat pretty healthily anyway, but I'm to eat only good things and stay off alcohol.

Do you have any idea why home insemination didn't work for you? Or the clinic putting sperm on the cervix? I'm trying to work out what I can differently next time to increase the chances. Because you are younger I would have thought your chances of success would have been high. Perhaps it is my dh's sperm? He had 2 tests at St Albans which said he had low motility, but the test at Luton was fine. Who knows?! I'm amazed anyone gets pg at all!

I don't want to do this month after month if we'll need to do IUI in the end anyway. We just don't have the money for it at the moment; our bathroom pipes exploded before Christmas and the whole bathroom is being gutted and rebuilt/refitted in a couple of weeks.

Hope you are OK. Are you getting excited about next week yet?!

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Hi Emma,

not to sure why things didn't work for me as I thought the same as you and that because I'm young it would be easy! how wrong I was! we tried for about 9 months I think using a turkey baster (something maybe you could try) I don't think it worked because I don't think I was putting it in far enough, basically I think that is it, especially  now I know DH and I fine only thing they haven't checked is my tubes.
The doc only tried placing it on my cervix 3 times which isn't very many I guess have no idea why it didn't work although our timing wasn't 100% accurate only used ovulation test on 3rd attempt other times just when with a rough day of ovulation as my cycles are fairly regular so its possible we just missed the timing.

I am getting a bit excited now but dreading the 2ww as Ive been there before and its not nice! like you doing preg tests when you know deep down your not preg but there is still that chance so you test, lost count on how much money I have spent on tests!
Think it will all be worse this time cause kinda got it into my head that we stand more of a chance of it working with IUI than we did before so setting myself up for more disappointment if it doesn't work I guess, plus read loads so post on here where it hasworked first time for people.

Not looking forward to all the upset each month when my period arrives, but hay maybe it wont you never know.

sorry about your bathroom must be so frustrating having to pay out for that! we couldn't afford the treatment or should I say couldn't wait to save up so ended up getting a loan! 

anyway going on a bit now, sorry

Night

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

Still no period. This is really annoying beacuse I want to get the timing right for next month. I think I'll have to get one of those ovulation predictor kits (more wasted money). I do know that I got the timing right this month. On one of the days I saw my counsellor my cervix was lowered - which it does, apparently, at ovulation time for 48 hours - and we had used the syringe for the previous 3 days.
What is really bugging me is that I saw the used hpt stick in the bin last night and it was showing a positive; I read somewhere on here that they can do that after some time (something to do with the control die in the test) and nothing to do with being pg.
Anyway, I have to put all this out of my mind and get on with revision today! I've also decided to give up caffeine - lots of green and herbal tea from now on for me.

Hope you are OK.

emma, xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

My period finally arrived   but I have managed to use tampons !  They feel weird, but I guess that's because I'm not used to this. It was third time lucky. I have a whole selection built up over time, and have found the small ones without an applicator easiest to insert.

I have given up caffeine, but am drinking masses of decaff tea and coffee and green tea! I was in a foul mood yesterday, crying at the slightest thing! I think my hormones are all over the place right now. My dh reckons it is caffeine withdrawal.

Hope you are OK. Any signs of your period yet?

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Emma,

At least period had arrived because if you are anything like me I bet you were still thinking you may be preg, and even thinking about doing another test! At least you know for sure now!
Have all the signs that period is on its way, I am expecting it tommorrow so I'll have to wait and see!
Thats great that you managed to use a tampon, they do feel weird at first and I'm still not that comfortable using them. really surprised you found the non applicator ones easiest but guess everyone is different aren't they, I was advised by Gynea to use applicator tampons!

Talk soon
Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

You were right. Until my period came I still had a hope that the hpt was wrong and I was actually pg. Apologies if this is to much information, but I don't know what is going on with my body! My last AF was early and very light, and this one was 5 days late and also very light. It started on Friday and has pretty much stopped now. I've always been regular as clockwork. Perhaps it is stress. 

I have counselling on Tuesday and am seeing the gynae consultant at Luton on Wednesday; I am supposed to get dilator #2 then. Still not really confident with #1 though. Well, I've got a few days to practice!

It is very exciting that things will be happening for you soon. Hope everything goes to plan.

Emma, xxx
p.s according to something I read yesterday you shouldn't eat peas when ttc! Beginning to wonder what is OK.


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Peas? haven't heard that one before, maybe I'll avoid them just in case.
Period Arrived today (a day late!) so its messed up my dates a bit. usually ovulate on day 15 or 16 which would be 27th or 28th which was great because 27th is a sunday so it didn't matter when I ovulated day 15 or 16 the IUI would take place on Monday 28th! now everything is a day later so I could ov on 28th or 1st march which means really I need to take both days off work just in case as wont know when it is gonna happen till the day really ( bodies are weird and wonderfull things!) this is causing big problems at work as the lady I nanny for cant really take both days off! why there dad cant take day off I'll never know! its just all extra stress I cant handle at the mo, got loads of family problems going on as well on top of the stress of having IUI in first place! beginning to wonder if its all worth it! ( I know it will be but cant take it all at the moment) spent most of yesterday and today in tears, I was working today so kids thought I was mental today!
sorry to winge on its not like you need me going on to you, Just feel I have no one, friends I did have I'm beginning to realize that perhaps there not the good friends I thought they were as they don't seem to be around for me through all this! I know its cause they don't know what to do or say and they have there own problems to get along with but its not as though I'm not there for them 
sorry don't mean to let it all out on you.

anyway, got scan next week, wed 23rd (not looking forward to another vaginal scan, but at least it was OK last time) then its all systems go.

Good luck for tommorrow and wed! don't feel you have to use no.2 if your not ready don't want to undo all your good work 

sorry for going on and on and moaning at you sorry xx
Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hello Donna,

I'm sorry you're feeling so fed up at the moment. I'm not surprised at all. This whole experience is an emotional rollercoaster. You are about to start a process that could change everything in your life and it is incredibly stressful. 

Is it hard being a nanny when you are ttc? You must be surrounded by children all the time! Do you look after very young children? At least you'll know what to do when you have some of your own! I spend quite a lot of time with my nephew and nieces (3 under the age of 5) who I adore, but afterwards it makes me really upset that I'm missing out on all that.

I guess friends don't really understand unless they've been through something similar themselves? Have you told them about vaginismus, or just the IUI? I've never told anyone at all about either.

I saw the psychosexual counsellor today. I always feel emotionally exhausted afterwards! We didn't do any finger work today, just talking; I think that is harder in many ways. Apparently I have never grown up as a sexual being, and my body still thinks I'm a child which is why it won't allow me to enjoy or have sex! Who knows....! As always, when she asks me a question my answer comes out all wrong and I end up sounding so stupid!

I hope you are feeling a bit happier today. Perhaps things will feel better once the treatment actually starts because you'll feel like you are doing something practical? 

Take care, and feel free to moan any time (I've done it often enough to you)! 

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Thanks Emma, still feeling down today but not as tearfull has yesterday! just feel I have no friends at the moment and no where to turn, probably feeling 100 times worse as its time of the month!
started getting myself worked up over treatment last night, how will I cope if it fails?(which there is a high chance it will) or what if it works but then I miscarry! couldn't cope with that! its all things I shouldn't be thinking or worrying about but cant help it!
its extremely hard to be a nanny especially when the family I work for seem to have had kids as an accessories! don't get me wrong they love them but I'm sure they only had them cause the were nearing 40 and all there friends have kids! they miss out on so much of there children, I appreciate they have to work (she works for Burberry earns 54k- not that my wages reflect that) but don't seem to make up for it at weekends or holidays, infact they take her 70 year old mother on holiday with them so she can look after the kids and 'they can have an holiday laying on a beach without them' (I ask you why have kids)
sorry I'm sounding off again 

The kids I look after are 2 1/2yrs and the youngest is 1 on Tues!

sounds like counseling was good today though?!
Good luck for tommorrow hope it goes well, let me know 

Sorry for going off on one AGAIN!

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

How are you feeling today? Are things any better?

I think that you can just drift apart from friends, particularly if your lives are very different. Are your friends married, with babies etc? I found that beacuse my dh and I got together when we were relatively young ( I was 21 he was 22), we just ended up having less and less in common with friends who were young, free and single. 

Well, the apointment with the gynae consultant was brief but fine. He put in dilator #2 and took it out, then made me do it. I could. It actually went in really easily, by some fluke. I have to go back next month for #3. He has suggested that I let my dh try to put it in. We'll give that a go next week. Time to get the syringe out again at the weekend though!

Counselling yesterday actually really upset me. I'm sure that she was asking valid questions, but I've come away feeling small and stupid. I know that I have to tackle the issues that may have caused the vag, but these sessions really knock my self esteem for six. I'll be alright by tomorrow.

Take care, and let me know how you're doing,
Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Firstly please don't ever feel small or stupid. if its how you feel then it isn't stupid is it?
I'm sure the counselor doesn't mean to make you feel like that, have you discussed how it makes you feel with her? they can be insensitive sometimes without realsing it I'm sure it wasn't her intention to upset you. sorry I didn't realize you were upset yesterday 

number 2! thats great 
doing better than me hun!
see you were convinced you wouldn't be able to use number 2, just look at you now well done! the way you are progressing you will have beaten this in no time. you may not feel it yet but Ican sense from what you write and how you write it (if that makes any sense) that you feel more positive about vag than you did when we first started talking.
I'm so pleased for you.

Feeling pretty much the same today not sure if its hormones, IUI or what that is effecting me. and some family **** at the weekend so may be that or combination of all 3! just made me kinda take stock of my life and see that some of my friendships are very one way (and not in my direction) guess I'm to tired to bother with those people right know but then that doesn't leave me with much. have a couple of people trying to help but they don't always understand, sort of have the attitude that I should be on cloud 9 as I'm having treatment but I don't always feel like that.
Family don't seem to get it at all either.

I'll get through it I guess.

Sorry your feeling upset, I'm here if you want to talk
Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

How's things? Is your scan on Wednesday? Is it one of those where they stick the wand in the vagina?! The local hospital tried to do one of those on me when they were doing the preliminary fertility tests, and I was climbing the walls! Perhaps I could manage it now. It's great that you were able to manage that before. What are they looking for when they do the scan?

My posts might get a bit erratic next week. I've got the builders/plumbers here all next week doing my bathroom. 

Take care,
Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Yes scan on Wednesday, they are looking at the lining of my womb and my ovaries, just checking body is heading in right direction and I'm preparing to ovulate - I think thats what they are looking at anyway.

Good luck with builders etc, when will all the work be over?

Sorry I've been grumpy and moaning lately things got a bit on top of me. hope builders don't stress you out 

Take care
Donna xx


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## keemjay (Jan 19, 2004)

donna - am just having a quick scan of the weeks postings and just saw your post about being a nanny. just wanted to say that i TOTALLY identify with how you feel - i was also a nanny and it irritated me beyond belief that these 2 people had 2 lovely children and yet couldnt be arsed to look after them. the kids needed them sooo much, it was etched in their behaviour and every word they uttered about their parents - it broke my heart, but i had to carry on being mrs perfect and caring for their every need so that i was still a good nanny to them. finally i couldnt take it any more, standing outside the school gates with all the other mums, having to go to toddler groups and swimming, being part of the 'mummies world' but yet being an outsider. i left 2 years ago and tho i still work with children part time, i dont have it all shoved in  my face the whole time.
anyway, just wanted to know that i really know how hard it is doing that job and dealing with IF - you deserve a medal as i dont think i could have actually gone thru the IUI whilst working with the kids 

kj

ps - i think you 2 girls on this thread are great, its been a real eye opener reading thru your problems (not that I'm spying, just interested) and i think you are both doing soooo well


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi kj,

Its not spying at all - the more the merrier!  If there are other people out there who are ttc with vaginismus _please _ join in. We'd love to hear from you! If anyone has managed to overcome vaginismus, or has conceived despite it, your advice and experiences would be invaluable to us.

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Hi kj,

Thank you so much for posting and for your positive and kind words.
I do think about changing jobs as it is very hard but I'd feel I was letting the family and more importantly the children down, I know I should think about myself but its hard, I love my job even though it is very hard at times would be so much easier to work in a shop or something.
Fell free to post whenever you want to be great to have others on here, as Emma says the more the merrier would be great to here from others with similar experiences.

Donna xx


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## AussieMeg (Sep 5, 2004)

Hi girls

I ahven't really read your threads so not sure where you are up to but I heard mentioned down (on a current affairs program) here (in australia) on the weekend that botx has been found to help some forms (principally unexplained) of vaginismus. So I did this hearch and came up with this.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_862637,00500016.htm
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3141785
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3851595.stm

Just thought it may be of interest and sorry if I am out of line

Cheers
megan


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Megan,

Not out of line at all. I'd heard about botox as a treatment for vaginimus a few months ago. My understanding it that it has only been tried in Israel so far.

My feeling is that it is not the right thing for me. My ultimate aim is that one day I will be able to have 'normal' sex with my dh and perhaps even enjoy it! Botox would mean that I could have sex but not feel anything. This might make it easier to get pg but there are other ways round that (IUI for example), but it just feels wrong for me. I was tempted when I was first diagnosed with vag. and couldn't imagine ever being cured of it. Now I am making progress with the dilators and botox doesn't seem so necessary. 

It might be the right thing for some people though. This is just my opinion.

Emma, xx

p.s. Donna, how are you? Are you getting nervous about wednesday?


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Megan,

I had never heard of using botox before as a form of treatment, haven't had a chance yet but i will have a look at the sites you mentioned as interested now.
don't think it would be right thing for me as it has never been mentioned to me before but maybe it isn't widely used as treatment here yet.

Emma,

yes beginning to get a bit nervous but excited that it will all be happening next week! scared to because I'll be back on that dreaded 2ww and have that gut wrenching feeling if I get a negative result.
How are you coping with the builders, how long are they with you for?

Donna xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

Glad you are excited as well as nervous. I'll be keeping everything crossed for you!

Builders are here for at least a week, probably two. They have gutted the bathroom (left the toilet, thank goodness) and created a ridiculous amount of dust all over the house. I have horrible eczema this evening (I get it from dust). Looks like I won't have a functioning bathroom until Thurs at the earliest. Lots of swimming for me I think.

We used the syringe again at the weekend. We were supposed to have another go tonight (I think I am ovulating or am about to do so) but my husband has to work through the night! Typical!

Take care,
Emma, xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

How did it go today?

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Emma,

will that be it then once the builders have finished will you have a new bathroom? all work complete? (although I'm sure the 2 weeks will drag on for you, the dust must be driving you mad!)

Today was fine, follicles are growing fine measured 15cm - no cant be right must have said mm surely??
did ask why I was having a scan as I'm having a natural cycle so nothing really to monitor but wasn't really given a straight clear answer! Have to start weeing on the ovulation sticks tomorrow and going back for another scan Friday morning - have no idea why but just do what I'm told, I'm sure its so they can justify the price!
feeling a bit nervous about having it done on Mon and Tue as in 2 weeks i could be pregnant its very exciting but I'm worried that I am getting too excited and therefore setting myself my for a very large fall if it fails.

How are you doing?- apart from the builders
Its a shame you cant have another go tonight with hubby working but hopefully what you've done already will be enough. where does DH work?

Take care

Donna
xx xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

Glad it went OK for you. 

Builders will be here well into next week. We should have a lovely bathroom after that, fingers crossed! Not getting much chance to practice with the dilators at the moment though. By the time they've gone there is too much else to do and I'm too tired! No counselling for a couple of weeks either.

Got to go, builders have arrived. Dh is lawyer in London.

emma, x


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## Cuddles (Feb 11, 2005)

Hi Emma and Donna,

I have been reading your posts for abt 3 weeks and was thinking of replying but wasn't sure because this website is mainly for the people who are trying to concieve and we are not (not yet). I found your posts as i was searching in google about the treatment for vaginismus. I have got vaginismus too. 

I have been married for 2 years but haven't been able to have penetrative sex because of vag. I am 20 yrs old and my husband 23. I think i had this problem because i experienced sexual abuse in my childhood. When i was a teenager i was told by my school friends that first sexual experience is very painful and we didn't have any sex education at all (i didn't go to school in UK). So i think it was all these things that caused my vaginismus. 

I didn't know that i have got vaginismus until Sep last year when i was searching through google about sex problems or sex pain or something like that and i saw an article on vaginismus. This was one of the happiest days of my life as i found out i was not alone and my problem was a disorder, it has a name and most of all it can be treated.

We started the treatment this month by going to a family planning clinic. It was a brief appointment and the doctor told us that for psychosexual issues we'll have to book a longer appointment session. We are still waiting for our first proper appointment.

I just wanted to share my experience with you two because because i think you can understand this better than anyone else. No one among my friends or family knows abt my vag... apart from DH!!!

Wishing you both good luck with your appointments and IUI's.


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Cuddles,

I'm so pleased that you have joined us here! I know just what you mean about finding out that youre not the only one with this problem. Until my GP diagnosed me (and I went away and looked up vaginismus on the internet) I thought that I was the only person in the world with this and was a freak!

Will you have to wait long for a psychosexual appointment? Has your doctor referred you to a gynaecologist to rule out any physical causes? I'm glad that you have an understanding dh to work through this with you. Are you planning/hoping to beat the vag before ttc? 

Apologies if I'm duplicating things I've written in previous posts, but I too had no sex education to speak of, even though I went to school in the UK. I was at a girls school where such things weren't mentioned. (One girl got pregnant at 16 and was expelled for bringing the school into disrepute). I wasn't sexually abused, but suffered a lot of emotional abuse as a child from my mother. I haven't told any friends or family about vaginismus. 

I'd love to hear more about you experiences and progress. It really helps to hear about other people in the same boat.

Best wishes,
Emma,xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

How are things with you? Is tomorrow your big day?

Wishing you all the luck in the world,

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

hi Cuddles,

Really glad you decided to post, you are very welcome to join us here even though you are not ttc.

I am 22 and DH is 25 I have been with him for 5 years and in that time haven't been able to have penetrative sex (he is my first sexual partner so therefore have never had penetrative sex) you may have seen from my previous posts that I too went to the family planning clinic for treatment and found them very helpfull and supportive with vag and ttc.
The same as you and Emma I thought I was a freak or frigged or something I only found out that I had vag through the family planning clinic when they advised me to have a smear! (I couldn't face it) so came clean that I had never had sex even though I was taking the pill, sorry if I'm rambling! anyway they gave me pyschosexual therapy and it was there I found out that what I was suffering from had a name and I wasn't alone.

hope to see more of you on here, good luck with everything

Donna xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Hi Emma,

How are things going with you?
Sorry haven't posted for a few days but my best friend found out she is pregnant on Thursday! (I was with her when she did the test!) so been feeling bit low, although I am really happy for her - not that she seems that happy! was a bit of a kick in the teeth thats all. 
anyway, had another scan on firday and folly was still 15mm which apparently is normal as I have long cycles my folly will grow slower. They expect it to do some growing over the weekend. If I haven't ovulated tomorrow morning then I am having another scan then the hosp will decide whether to give me an HCG injection to bring on ovulation. so Is looking like tomorrow could be the day -  scary!!!
with my friend being pregnant it means I want it to work first time even more, but so does everyone

really hope it works I hate the feeling a BFN gives me!

hope you are well,

Donna xx


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## Cuddles (Feb 11, 2005)

Hi Emma and Donna 

Thanks for your quick replies. Emma, in answer to your questions, the doctor who I spoke to at the family plannig clinic said that it will take a month to get an appointment.  She said that she'll do an internal examination first to rule out any physical causes. I am not sure how they are going to treat me. Although your's and Donna's posts have given me a lot of information about the treatment and also abt the dialtors etc. 

Before that I ordered a video from the States which showed a couple going through vaginismus and it also explained the use of dialtors. It helped us think positive about vaginismus and gave us hope that it can be cured (it's not easy but it's possible).

We are not plannig on having children for another two or three yrs. We want to settle down and buy a house first, which is proving difficult with rise in property prices in the UK, I have also got one year of studies left and me and DH want to live life and enjoy each other  before we start a family (hell, we're still both young).  That's why we are not thinking about children at the moment.

Donna, sorry that you were feeling low. I hope that you have success with your IUI and then you will find the happiness that you are looking for.

Cuddles
xx xx


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hello again,

Cuddles - a month isn't too bad, I think; I waited about 10 months for mine! Will your dh be going with you? I've found the psychosexual counselling really mentally exhausting. It takes me a few days to recover from each session! Don't let that put you off though. I have to talk about things I've tried not to think about for years in the session. Then I always remember other related things afterwards and go over and over it in my mind. Having appointments motivates me to work with the dilators, in the hope that I have some progress to report at the next one.

Donna - how did it go? Are you now on the 2ww?! Was it painful? How do you feel now?
I'm sorry about your friend becoming pg (if that makes sense). I find it very hard to be pleased when someone I know becomes pg, and then feel so angry with myself for being horrible!

Not much progress here, with the dilators or the bathroom. I'm fed up with the latter.

Hope to hear from you both soon,

Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Emma,

all went ahead today! had my serge this morning and the IUI took place at 3.15 this afternoon so am now in 2ww 
it was quite uncomfortable and painfull especially as they cant use any lubrication thankfully it was quite quick and the pain wasn't too bad just constant if that makes sense?
when they put the cafiter ( sorry not sure how to spell it) into my womb I felt period pain like cramps. got a little light bleeding but I am not worried or surprised by that.

sorry to hear things aren't going well with you. whats happened with bathroom - problems??

Donna xx

P.S I know what you mean about other people being pregnant. she is one of my closest friends so can't really avoid her, I don't want her not to talk to me about it though as I want to share her happines to.


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

How exciting! I think you are really brave to have gone though all that. So you're now on the 2ww!!I bet it'll be the longest 2 weeks of your life! You must take good care of yourself. Did they advise you to take things easy? What about lifting children?
I really hope it works for you, as you really deserve this. Let me know if you start getting any symptoms! I bet you'll be analysing every little twinge....

Bathroom still not finished, but we have a toilet again today! They promise me it'll be done by the end of the week. Not the fastest/most dynamic plumbers ion the world. Haven't touched the dilators for days; I tended to practice after a nice relaxing bath.....

Take care, 
Emma, xx


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Hi Emma,

Don't know of any plumbers or anyone in the building trade that are energetic when I think about it, unless its tea break time then thats a different story! (may be a little stereotypical but true all the same)

trying not to think about it to much have been getting period cramps today and feeling sick but I expected to feel like this as I did after we had the practice go. DH is worse than me so Iknow we will drive each other mad over next to weeks.
Hospital didn't advise me to do or not do anything special, I had thought about lifting the children but cant really avoid it so will be as carefull as I can.
I know the next 2 weeks will drag on especially next week leading up to testing! I just want to know now 
but hopefully if I'm patient I'll get the result I want.

Donna xx

Bet your looking forward to hottest, bubbliest, longest bath ever once all work is finished


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## emmadaffodil (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi Donna,

How are you feeling? Are you able to think about anything else?! I'm sure I wouldn't be able to.

Whenever I'm getting stressed with the plumbers I think about what you wrote about the lovely hot bubbly bath! Was supposed to be all done by tomorrow, now looks like Saturday!  I've taken to bathroom-based retail therapy; I keep buying bath foam and towels etc.

If dh isn't working this weekend i want to try and work on the vaginismus again. It feels like ages.

Take care,
Emma, xx
Emma


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## Donna Taylor (Dec 23, 2004)

Hi how are you? is bathroom nearly finished?

I am going completely insane! cant think of anything else, don't think that it has worked but just want to know and I've got another 10 days to go.
Thought I would be OK has had 2ww before with all the other ways we have been tcc but this is a million times worse

take care, and hopefully get a nice bath tomorrow

Donna xx


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## Candy (Mar 8, 2004)

Hi ladies, I am sorry to be giving you a new home, at only page 9, its just I am away next week and I want to try and give the peeps looking after my board as little as possible to do.

Please carry on posting, hers the link to your new thread

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=23857.new#new

Candy xx


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