# Depression & loss barriers to adoption or not?



## *katie* (Nov 9, 2004)

Hello all,

I wondered if any of you ladies who are already in the process of adopting could help me out with some advice. I am aware our circumstances are quite different to many of yours, given we already have lo's, & I'm sorry in advance if my post is upsetting in any way, I really don't mean it to be.

We still feel there's more room in our hearts and life for more little folk.

And we're not ready yet to properly decide even if or how we might go about that so are thinking various options through. 

I'm just having a very early think about adopting, and have been surprised to find that things that I'd expected to be barriers aren't.  But I do still think we have two big issues that may prevent us being suitable to adopt, and I wondered if anyone had any experiences they could share.

The first issue is the loss of our daughter Polly who was stillborn earlier this year.  How do adoption agencies view people who've lost a child/children? Does this make a differnce, ie would we be classed as vulnerable in some way so not be allowed to go ahead?

The second issues is depression. I have had 2 spells in the last 2 years.  I am currently on medication, but hoping to wean off it in the new year, and this spell is definitely a grieving-related thing (lost my Dad after after our daughter & their funerals were 2 days apart, etc).  Again, is this likely, in your experience, something which will be a barrier to adopting? 

I am aware that if neither are automatic barriers, we would need to be sufficiently "through" these things and most likely be able to prove so, and as I say, I wouldn't for a moment consider us ready yet.

But just curious though....

Thank you for reading xx


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## Boggy (Dec 13, 2006)

Hi Katie

I'm sorry for your losses. I've followed your journey over the past year, and think you are amazing. 

You are correct in saying that depression and losses are not barriers to adoption - there are many many people here who have suffered both and successfully adopted. You do need to have worked through your thoughts and feelings and you will be expected to talk openly about your deepest feelings - but all this is manageable.  

Having birth children will have given you a head start into the world of parenting and valuable experience which is very beneficial. Also the losses you have experienced will in time be valuable if you come to adopt - all adopted children have experienced loss and need someone able to support them as they come to terms with it. You are in a unique position where you have suffered material loss and the loss of loved ones and I am sure you have so much to offer an adopted child.  

Here's a link to our adopting with birth children thread:


http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=166533.12

If you have any other questions, we'll be delighted to answer if we can.

Bx


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## panorama (Feb 7, 2005)

Hi Katie

Sorry for your loss    My son was also born sleeping and have had miscarriages after but I do not think this has been a problem with us applying to adopt. In fact it means you can relate to the child who obviously has suffered loss too. However agencies normally do like you to have grieved your losses before applying so normally would like you to wait at least a year since your last tx or loss.

I also think that as long as the depression you have suffered relates to you grieving there should be no problem, you do need to have a medical which will explore this. I was never on antidepressants myself, only took some sleeping tablets in the initial stages of losing Alex which my GP said were entirely justified. I think it's just all part of being human. 

I'm sure you have a lot to offer children once you are ready.

p xxx


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## Anjelissa (Jan 11, 2007)

Hi Katie,

Firstly, I'm so very sorry to hear of the loss of your Daughter and your Dad earlier this year  , life can be so unfair and cruel.   

I can only give my opinion based on our experience, as I am not a SW, but you sound really 'clued up' as to how you expect SS to view your situation.
I think you are totally right in that they will most likely want to assess both of you with regards to your state of mind following all you have gone through this past year.
I know it's nowhere near the same thing, but I think based on the fact that a lot of LA's wont take up an application from couples that have had fertility treatment until at least a year has passed, I would imagine they would view your circumstances similarly in that they would want to know that you are mentally ready to start the adoption process.

As Boggy has very wisely just said, a very relevant point is that there is another side to how they will view what you have gone through. Loss is a very big factor in all adopted children's lives, and by the time they reach us, most, even as babies, will have suffered at least 2 losses (some a lot more) of their Birth Parents and then their Foster Carers. 

I haven't been through what you have, and so I wouldn't even begin to try to advise you, but from my experience of the adoption assessment, the one thing I would say is that it is quite mentally draining, longwinded, invasive and in many ways tougher than we imagined (all for good reasons I know), although obviously extremely rewarding and worthwhile too.
In your case they will want to discuss the past year in detail and this will understandably still be very 'raw' for you both.
What I am trying to say is just be kind to yourselves and make sure that you feel you really have had enough time to take a 'step back' and after all you have been through, that you don't feel you need a bit more time before embarking on the quite tough and intense process of an adoption assessment. 

More   for you, and I wish you lots of luck with whatever you decide,

Love Anj x x


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## peacelily (Feb 24, 2006)

Katie...I will try and PM you over the weekend.

Peacelily xx


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## *katie* (Nov 9, 2004)

Hello ladies, 

Thank you SO much for your wise and honest words, they are much appreciated.

Boggy ~ Thank you for writing about how we may have experience to offer a little one in terms of what we've been through this year.  I certainly feel we've grown and learnt a lot this year, and I think this is why we are currently swaying more towards adoption at the moment as our preference. IF (and it's a big if at the mo!) we get through our enquiry on Monday, I will be writing on that thread!  

Panorama ~ I'm so sorry your son was born sleeping too    .  And for your misscarriages also     .  Thank you for sharing your story with me...it definitely gives us some hope!  My GP offered me medication when Polly died, but I refused, however pretty much insisted when my Dad died too, on the basis that anyone would struggle with 2 very different losses at the same time, and I know that she would be fully supportive if we were able/decided to pursue adoption, so I feel reasonably confident on how we would fare on this when it is discussed.

Anj ~ Thank you too for your reply.  It's good to have the reminder that we would need to discuss the past year in detail...I have chatted this through with Andy and we both are now quite comfortable doing so.  A couple of months ago I went through what I can only call the "absolute depths" of grieving for little Polly, but since then, our journey onwards has been very much a positive one.  I think I needed to get to that point to be able to move on in a healthy way iykwim.  I really do appreciate your comment re having taken time to step back & digest this last year...and this is why, at the moment, I totally appreciate that we need to get through Christmas & ensure we cope, and P's 1st anniversary, etc, before we even start to make any kind of commitment.

All the sensible stuff said   , I did, on Friday, after reading the replies, ring the LA office hoping to make an initial enquiry.  By chance, most of the team were away at the time, so I spoke to the head of panel(!!) briefly, who sounded quite positive and has arranged for the duty social worker to ring me back on Monday.  I made it clear that we are not ready to adopt at this moment in time, but once the house is re-built post-fire, & we've settled back in(next Feb), from then onwards would be the time to make a commitment if we stand a chance of "fitting the bill".

The only other barrier that I can think of currently is Andy's age...whilst it is said there is no upper age limit, they must have a cut-off somewhere & he's quite a bit older than me!

But thank you SO much ladies, we're very grateful...if nothing else I feel there is a tiny chance that we may be perceived as being suitable to adopt, which is a much bigger one than we thought we had when 
we first realised it felt right for us.

Katie xx


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## *katie* (Nov 9, 2004)

Sorry, I meant to say, PL hun, thank you    but rather than you writing reams now, leave it til after the phonecall on Monday and if we get past that stage I would love to hear from you then! xx


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## popsi (Oct 11, 2007)

Katie darling... I followed your story and was so moved by it, i am so happy to see you over this thread, as i know you and Andy would make fantastic adoptive parents with your love and past sadness also... i helped a little at the time of the fire, and if i can help with anything for this please ask... as for Andys age hun, I am sure it would be fine .. most on our course were in their 40's i felt young at 36 LOL xx


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## peacelily (Feb 24, 2006)

Katie...how did the phonecall go, hun?

Peacelily xx


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## *katie* (Nov 9, 2004)

Hello Popsi!    Thanks hun for that...that's good to know, ah and thank you for your lovely comment.  . Will pm you re your help after the fire (thank you xx) as finally getting organised with thank you cards, etc.

PL hey hun, well they didn't ring! I let it go figureing that after a w/e Monday is probably a busy day, but they have a duty SW on a Mon, Wed & Fri.  They didn't ring yesterday either, but we were out most of the day so I didn't chase it up..I will ring them again tomorrow.  The current crunch-point looks like being contacting A's ex-wife. Their break-up was very difficult, no issues as such, but just very drawn out and emotional. I do understand why SW's have too look into past relationships etc but we just think it will probably cause a lot of pain & possibly open up some old wounds, I'm not sure we want to go there really. Still, I'm still going to have a chat & explain the situation and see what they say, I'm sure they've encountered this before.  Will contact you once I've spoken to the SW!

Thanks again ladies...Katie xx


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## panorama (Feb 7, 2005)

Hi Katie

I had to do that too, was married first time long time ago and had not contacted ex for 13 years. But all the SW needed was an address or email for them to contact them. I tried to get that through a friend but was taking ages so eventually contacted him through ******** and got his email. He was happy to co-operate but it did bring up some issues not least of which he wanted to be my friend on ** - ahem no!! After a few days was over it though!

p xx


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## *katie* (Nov 9, 2004)

P ~ Thanks hun, I'm glad your ex co-operated. Lol re the ** thing!

Well I didn't want you ladies who so kindly have taken the time to write to think I'd disappeared off into the ether, but I think we now know where we stand.

Firstly...the LA office never did return my call!  But, in the meantime, I emailed BAAF with my questions and had a long conversation with a lovely chap on Friday.  

I'll write a little about it..basically for us, adoption will be a no-go.  The simple fact is that the twins are so young, and the chap I spoke to (who's worked in adoption 30+ yrs in various roles) said because as twins they're so used to being such a "tight unit", we wouldn't be considered seriously until they were about 10 yrs old. But by then, Andy would be considered to be too old really.  He told me he felt we fell into a catch 22 situation, and was hugely apologetic.

We had a long conversation, and despite him telling me immediately that he felt adoption would not be for us for the reasons mentioned above, he did humour me and was really good at explaining some of the why's and wherefore's of the assessment process. So incase it helps anyone;

When talking to an ex-husband/wife:  The reason this is done during the asessment process is because apparantly in Brighton & Hove (1989) there was a lady who told the assessment panel at the time that she didn't have a contact number for her ex & that she felt it would open up old wounds anyway regarding their separation.  This lady apparantly went on to adopt, but later killed her adopted child.  Apparantly it took an enquiry person just an hour to track down her ex, who informed them that this lady had a substantial history of violence.  So from there, the rule was introduced to make contact with significant others.  A very, very sad story.

The chap I spoke to spent a lot of time talking to me about the considerations one needs to make when looking into adoption, some of them included;

Support Networks ~ He said some friends of his adopted a child but when they really needed support, the lists of people who could fill an A4 page of paper simply weren't there for them.  (I did tell him that from experience I felt confident that my support network woould be there, however didn't feel by this point there was much point elaborating!)

How our families would feel welcoming an adopted child ~ He explained that often parents don't consider how their families may react to them adopting and are therefore shocked/surprised at the reactions of those around them. (Here I tried to explain that a family member has been a foster-parent for some time, and currently has 3 children from different families with them, and that as a family we welcome all the children who are with her as individuals & also as a member of the family without question). He told me that this was different, that fostering is temporary and I shouldn't make comparisions (This irked me somewhat I have to say, when the point/question was simply would our families welcome a child who is not biologically from the family.  Answer = Yes!) 

"Worst case scenarios" ~ Given he told me we would only be consider for an older child, he explained how they would potentially have a greater understanding of the abuse and/or loss, and/or family breakdown they had suffered.  He said that with this, being an older child, there is more potential for disruptive/challenging behaviour (for example, a 2yr old has no concept when in a temper of running away, but an 8 yr old, for example, may have, and so on).  He told me 5 or six stories of how things had gone wrong for people, and although at one point I told him I've worked in child protection prevously and have a little knowledge of the behaviours and situations that can occur, he told me that as a job this didn't really qualify as a point of understanding because I would need to put myself in the parent's shoes to truly understand.  Point taken, but again I was a bit miffed by this. After every worst case scenario he asked me how I felt, and initially I said "well you haven't told me anything I wouldn't have imagined", but I could tell if I continued saying that, he was just going to continue telling me worst case scenarios.  He told me he wasn't trying to put me off and I kept telling him "absolutely, I know that in your position you need to explain the realities of adopting", and so on.

Motivation for adoption ~ He said to me that one thing all prospective parents are asked if what is their motivation for adopting.  He said this several times, and I got the distinct impression that he felt I was simply ringing with an idea in mind of a "perfect little familly".  (I probably should've explained that we had carefully considered adopting knowing a reasonable-ish amount about it, and that we were under no illusions that is would be a plain-sailing journey.  I probably also should have said that we felt we have more love/energy/committment of offer a child & when we know there are many "out there" needing a loving, stable and supportive family already, then  it seems to us to make sense to consider adoption).

I could go on, but I won't.  I hope some of the points to consider may be useful for anyone considering adoption.  I wasn't particularly eloquent during the conversation but I do feel the decision had already been made for us really.

I could've fought our corner, I could've said "just give us chance to prove ourselves", and I could've taken the conversation as an attack on our ability to be good parents.  But that's not the point is it.  The point is, it's our circumstances which don't fit the criteria, which as frustrating as they may be, are there for very valid reasons.  I couldn't guarantee to be able to give 100% of my time to an adopted child or any child that came into our family, but particularly when adopting this is important, and social services during the assesment process would recognise that.

I still think we'd make great forever-family parents....but that said, somewhere out there, there is a little 8yr old boy or girl, who could have us as their forever family.  But as well as us, there could also be another forever family waiting - parents (or a parent) with no children or much older children, who could ably give that level of time & committment that this child will need.  And we, no matter how hard I try to justify things..can't. 

So there we go...but thank you SO much to all of you who took the time to write...and what I will say is that I have so, so much respect for all you parents pursing adoption or who have adopted already.

With love, Katie xxxx


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## Boggy (Dec 13, 2006)

Oh Katie, I don't know what to say.   

I will say this. I have never in the 4 years and a half years I've been immersed in the adoption world heard of people with twins not being able to adopt. I really feel strongly that if you are still keen on adopting (if this man hasn't put you off), then you need a second opinion. 

BAAF doesn't place children for adoption - they are a policy and procedure organisation who don't deal day to day with the placing of children. I can't help thinking the man you spoke too was looking at things in black and white a bit too much.

Yes you'd probably have to wait until the twins are older (at least a couple of years) as you can't adopt a child older than them, but I really don't see how somewhere out there, there isn't a child who would fit perfectly into your family.

I am really really shocked.

Please please don't give up. Phone AdoptionUK for advice, they are very good and used to dealing with the nitty gritty of adoption:

http://www.adoptionuk.org/informationlist/100172/100264/ac_adoption_support/

BAAF are good at what they do, but don't have the right to say yes or no to applicants - only agencies can do that. Remember you can apply to any agency within a 50 mile radius of your home.

You have so much to offer, hopefully others will recognise that too.  

Bx

/links


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## panorama (Feb 7, 2005)

Hi Katie

Thanks for writing all that down. I must say I am shocked too! Saying that I think the first time I contacted an agency about adoption I was pretty put off by what they told me, not by the content but by the tone of the person who I really felt was trying to put me off. So much so that I waited another 6 months before contacting another. I think it is all part of the adoption rollercoaster!

I really don't understand how a family like yours will not make a good family for an adoptive child and what twins has got to do with it? I do understand the two year gap but by the time it takes to get through the whole process that will probably all be covered anyway. Makes me fume a little when you get all sorts of families out there, and there are so many kids needing homes!

Like Boggy says it may be worth talking to an LA (can't believe they didn't call you back!   ), but I can understand if it has put you off completely!

p xx


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## *katie* (Nov 9, 2004)

Boggy & P thanks so much for your lovely replies xx

Yes, I was a bit taken aback too I must say.  I had expected to be told about the considerations parents would need to make, but not quite in the way they were made (ie it felt a very negative conversation).  And not once, was it metioned that adoption could and is a great and positive thing!

I suspect he was right though, more along the lines of the twins needing to be older than an adopted child.  But with Andy's age we would be considered for say an 8 yr old. Therefore the twins would need to be 10 or so.  But going back to Andy's age, by that point in time he would be considered too old. (You following this??    ). Hence we're in a catch 22 situation.

But the reality was, it didn't put me off in the slightest & I told the chap that whilst I appreciated his need to tell me all the worst case scenarios to ensure I would have a better insight into the challenges that can be faced when adoptiong, I added that he'd done nothing to convince me that we wouldn't make a great family for an adopted child. If we could've found a way over the various hurdles (because they are in reality just hurdles aren't they) then it was still something we were keen to pursue.  Boggy I'd spotted your link last night and was ready to ring them at 9am to have a chat.

But, and I feel extremely awkward saying this, it would seem fate has other plans, and something very unexpected has come up this morning.  So for the time being, right now, adoption won't be an option for us.  But I do always work on the basis of never say never....  

Thanks ladies, so much xxxx


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## Boggy (Dec 13, 2006)

Glad things haven't put you off, and that you can think of adoption positively even though it might not be the plan for you at the moment.  all will be well, whatever unexpected turns life takes.  

Bx


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## *katie* (Nov 9, 2004)

Thank you Boggy, that means a lot. xx


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## keemjay (Jan 19, 2004)

Hi katie - i saw your last post and very much hope things turn out well for you with the latests turn of events....but just wanted to kind of echo Boggy..whilst the BAAF man has made some valid points i think he is bang out of order making assumptions on what your LA might say to you.. I wouldnt take his word as gospel AT ALL.
If you ever have cause to come back to the adoption path i would go straight back to your LA (who by the way rarely call back when they are meant to  ) and start afresh disregarding most of this mans 'advice'

wishing you well

kj x


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## Camly (Dec 12, 2006)

katie

i jsut wanted to echo what the other ladies have said but i also wanted to say that i think you and your husband are an inspiration.  take care of yourselves.

lots of love camly xxxx


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## popsi (Oct 11, 2007)

Katie...hope your posts means what I think it does darling


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## libby29 (Dec 27, 2008)

Katie
I think its worth calling LA hun. We are with ours and we had a few things thats we were worried we would be rejected for ie small home and 2 step daughters who visit at w/e's, hubby works away in the week ect... They are wonderful and told us many times that they look at every couple as a unique case and on their own merits. They said that if there are areas they need to look at more in depth then they will and will try and help us in over coming these obsticles. Whats important to them is that you can offer a secure, loving, safe, happy family for a child and you seem like you can. We were also told that they tend to focus on the age of the youngest parent as long as your hubby is healthy and active you may be ok. You can apply in a 50 mile radius so you wont loose anything but phoning around. I wish you all the best with what ever you do hun xxxxx


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## thespouses (Jan 5, 2006)

My understanding is that it is the age of the younger partner that is a consideration, but there are a  few agencies that look at the older partner, and a few that don't really consider either partner.  The only place that I have heard this as a really strict rule is from BAAF and all of the VA/LAs that I've mentioned this to think it's a bit bizarre how BAAF promote this. But highly dependent on the agency.

I would have thought that you could put forward the case that once the twins are in school, you'd be able to concentrate on a preschool child (maybe older preschool e.g. twins are 6 and child is 4).

And what a rude man, all the SWs we've worked with e.g. on prep course have taken as really positive the knowledge that we DO have not rubbished it as "not relevant".


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