# Embryos slow down after Day 3.....what can we do



## bendywendy

Hi everyone I'm new here. 
Thought I'd post as I've been having a bad day and it has really helped reading through some of your stories.

We did 2 ICSI cycles earlier this year.
1st cycle - everything went to plan initially, ended up with 5 top grade embryos growing away on Day 3, so all were pushed to blastocyst and booked for a Day 5 ET. I then got a call first thing on Day 5 saying most of them had slowed right down and we didn't have any blastocysts yet, so wait another day. By Day 6 we luckily had 1 blastocyst which was transferred but unfortunately the result was a chemical pregnancy only.
2nd cycle much the same story but worse - 7 wonderful embryos on Day 3 resulted in just 1 morula by Day 6 - transferred but no result.

We were advised that there isn't much we can do - we've both been on all the supplements for a while now as TTC for over 3 years and unexplained infertility diagnosed 18 months ago.
The only suggestion was to try IMSI so that they spend more time selecting the sperm to ensure only those showing no signs of DNA fragmentation are chosen.

So we are going to go for it again in January - feel very nervous and worried that we will get all the way to Day 5 again only to find out we don't have any blastocysts?

Anyone else had anything similar?


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## Madeline Rose

Hi Wendy

Yes, we have had v similar results to you on 3 of our 4 cycles and have had BFNs each time.

Did you have ICSI rather than IMSI?  Does your DH have high DNA frag? 

We have been trying to work out whether ours is a sperm issue due to DH DNA frag or egg ( no known issues on my side although I produce lots of eggs) but pretty much impossible to tell. We have wondered about IMSI, but there don't seem to be any success rates available.

Not sure if that's much help, but just to say you're not alone.

Madeline Rose


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## Nordickat

Hi and I hope finding FF makes your third attempt easier   


I just thought I´d share my experiences with you. We´ve always done ICSI due to duffer sperm, and always had poor fertilization rates and then on day 3 we lose most of our embies. By pure luck I´ve always had at least one to transfer but I htink thats is luck of numbers because I produce a lot of eggs. Anyway, we have switched to donor sperm thinking it will be the ´cure´and we do get much better fertilization rates. I had 11 of 12 eggs fertilized last cycle which is fab for me. Sadly we lost 10 of those on day 3 and we only had one left for a 5dt so it looks like my eggs are duffers too. Acupuncture is supposed to help with egg quality, as it melatonin and lots of other supplements - I can send  you a list if you are interested for sperm and eggs. Whether it really helps or just makes you feel better to actively doing something who knows.


Also a change of protocol can make a big difference so speak to you clinic. Were you on the short long protocol? Ask if you can have a shot with the short protocol maybe?


Lots of luck, and remember that no 2 cycle are the same so it might easily be lucky number 3 for you. And see your chemical pregnancy as a sign that you do have good swimmers and eggs in there, you just need to get lucky.
Katxxx


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## benne

Hi,

I also have had similar experiences. We now have had 3 treatments. The first time i had 14 eggs and we had IVF, 12 fertilised and most did great on day 3 but only 2 morulas on day 5, got a positive HPT but ended quickly. 2nd time i produced 20 eggs all of which fertilised however this time we had half IVF/ICSI, this time the ICSI ones did very badly but still had 7 good embryos on day 3, this time we had a early blast and morula on day 5, with this we miscarriaged at 6 weeks. Now this last cycle was different. I made an impulsive decision to try IMSI as i definately did not want just ICSI again. The embryologist said this was most definately the best cycle. They described my eggs as beautiful (why, thank you) and we actually got a 2AB blast and early blast on day 5, which was so much better then last time. I also asked for a change of drugs this time and went from Gonal F to Menopor, as although i dont have a known problem i did have a PCO like effect due to the drugs. I would definately go for Menopor again as the eggs grew at much more normal speed and i felt much happier. Sadly we had a miscarriage at 9 weeks. I am awaiting  cyctogenetics to find the cause. Not sure if that will help detect any of our issues, although suspect it will just give us an answer as why this pregnancy did well. I am hoping they will recommend doing it again....although feel that i will have to stop at some point....fingers crossed 4th time lucky! 

If i was you and this has nothing to do with research or evidence, purely from a personal experience i would do IMSI!!


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## Madeline Rose

Hi Kat and Benne

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Benne, has your DH had a DNA frag test?

Thanks 

MR
X


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## benne

Yes, he had normal fragmentation but slightly elevated stainability. Allegedly that meant that there may be reduced fertilsation rate, however in treatment that has never been a problem for us. He does has a relatively high abnormal rate of abnormalities but still he is meant to have enough normal sperm to pregnant all in London---apart from me.........booo!


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## bendywendy

Thanks everyone for your posts.

MR: We had ICSI the first two times - the consultant did say they have had couples with a similar issue to us, and IMSI has led to success.
DH hasn't actually had a DNA frag test - when we asked what would be advised if he did have high fragmentation they said supplements and IMSI, which is what we are doing anyway, so we decided to save our money. 
I guess it's worth getting the test done just to know?
The other thing is his sperm has worked in the past - he has 2 children with one ex and 1 with another. Motility isn't great, but apparently not bad enough to be the reason we don't conceive naturally.
I can only ever have 1 put back, as have had some of my cervix removed in the past via a couple of laser cone biopsies, so could never carry twins.

Kat: I have been having acupuncture since July and am planning to have it through the cycle - would be interested in the supplements though? My acupuncturist said selenium makes the eggs a bit easier to penetrate - other than that I am just using the wellwoman conception range. DH is on wellman conception plus a very high dose of vit C, E, zinc and selenium.
I think I was on the long protocol - the first one I started with the pill but the second one I didn't, followed by a week of suprecur nasal spray then approx 2 weeks of menopur. I never seem to produce a huge number of eggs, although have been on a fairly low dose. I think 7 the first time and 8 the next.

Benne:sorry to hear about your losses. However it's good to hear that IMSI made a difference - a 2AB blast sounds great! I guess one of the most frustrating things I find is when you can see the point that its starts to go wrong i.e. Day 3, but no-one can really tell you why or fix it!!!


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