# When do I give up hoping for #3?



## Bubblicious

So I find myself back here again.  It's like a crutch that I need occasionally. I guess that dark cloud of infertility sometimes unexpectedly floats back into your life again. It's not been there for a while but I stopped and looked up there one day and hey presto, there it was!

DC#2 is going to school in September. I had secretly hoped that I'd be pregnant again by some miracle at some point in the past four years. After all I got pregnant once naturally (it seems like such an achievement like an Olympic medal).  But it hasn't happened and I'm getting on a bit now. So I'm thinking that I should be getting back to work. I've been a SAHM for a while (I've been lucky to have that choice) but now with an empty house in the daytime looming in front of me, I'm feeling bereft again.

On top of that, a friend has just had her third after an initial short SHORT (!) "struggle" to conceive her first and another who had gynaecological issues has had her third natural pregnancy confirmed. Am I happy for them? Yes, of course. Am I envious and sad for me? Hell, yes. I feel bad about it but let's be honest. After all, I have no diagnosis. By all accounts, we're all good fertility-wise. So why can't it be me? Because, it's just the way the cookie crumbles.

When I think I've got my sh*& together, infertility comes and slaps me about the face and sometimes, I can't instantly get back up again. I'm left in a sorry heap on the floor. So here I am again, looking for nothing more than to offload. I'm sure I'll be okay again soon. I always am.


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## mierran

Just to send you a hug. It is hard. Most of the time you just get on with things then sometimes it hits you like a brick. I hate IF .

X x


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## Bubblicious

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it. I feel really alone. I know I have a lot to be grateful for but now and again I need someone to just validate my negative feelings.


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## monkeytree

Hi

I am in a similar boat to you, 2 dc's aged 10 and almost 3 although I do have fertility issues and dd2 is a miracle child. Added to this, I did become pregnant again but mc last year at 20 weeks and no pregnancy since.  I understand what you mean about an empty house and how infertility rears its head, I've also got this terrible loss to live with and its so hard.  I am torn between wanting to move away from all things baby but still ttc with a glimmer of a hope.  I am headed for early menopause so I guess this will be an end to it.  I'm trying to throw myself into voluntary work as a bit of a distraction.  I too am a sahm and with very little support other than my dh the reality of trying to work and be there for my girls would be extremely difficult to pull off.  I guess I'm trying to say you are not alone.  So grateful for what we have but longing for what we don't have too and I think that's a natural reaction.


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## Saska

Im in the same boat too. I have two DD, 4 and 6, and have been trying for number three for 2.5 years. As you can see from my signature, its been a really trying time, not to mention expensive! I feel like I have tried so hard but just keep getting slapped down. I have been trying to pull myself together and just appreciate what we have - and I am amazingly lucky to have two dds - but a bit of me is finding it hard to shut the door. My OH is the same but he isn't the one that has put on 20 kilos over the last few years due to hormone injections, steroids etc etc. My life has been s severely affected by it - practically, health wise and emotionally - that it is difficult to give up without the "prize". 

Many people think I am mad to do all this as I already have two children and maybe they are right. Count your blessings, is what I am told all the time, so trying very hard to do that.


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## Bubblicious

It really helps to know that I'm not the only one.  Monkeytree, I'm sorry about your miscarriage. It must be absolutely  heartbreaking.  Saska, I'm so sorry that you've had to go through so much in your journey already. 

I spoke to my husband about the possibility of going back for treatment but he wanted me to really think about whether it was just a knee-jerk reaction. It's not easy and obviously expensive. Our fertility status is "unexplained"  but I had success with immune treatment and wondered if there's anywhere where they would do immune investigations and treatments without fertility treatment. I don't know. I feel like I'm just clutching at straws. I thought I was handling things but last night I dreamed that there was another pregnancy announcement and I was sobbing in my sleep. Perhaps, I just need counselling for unresolved issues. Hopefully,  things will be clearer soon and I'll have more of an idea of what it is that I really need.

Thank you so much for sharing.  I wish us all the luck in achieving our dreams.


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## Saska

Dr Gorgy at the FGA will do immune treatment alongside a natural cycle. I warn you though, the tests alone cost a fortune.


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## Bubblicious

Thanks, Saska.  At least it's a lead, something for me to look into if it's the route I do decide to take.  I'd come to some level of acceptance in recent times perhaps this is just a blip.


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## beachbaby

Hi ladies, Hugs to you all. I always feel that as we struggled so much to have our families we crave to do it all again and again, as it was such a joy to hold those precious babies. I had twins and would have gone back to use my frosties up, however fate took a hand and I was extremely poorly after my twins birth and had a hysterectomy so this was taken from me. My boys are now 8, and although the decision for more children was taken out of my hands if I think about it I know 2 is perfect. I have 2 very healthy boys with no problems doing well in school. Holidays are easy as most accommodation is for 4, I have lots of friends with 3+ children and they have to get 2 rooms and the parents sleep separately with the children. Most things are geared up for a family of 4, add another in and it can get very expensive. 
Also no 2 is heading to school, it is a sad and happy time, your losing your baby but at the same time they are gaining more independence and life starts to get easier, do you really want to start down the treatment route again and if successful babies and all that comes with it. 
I do know now that I love the fact we can do so much more these days now the boys are more independent, and I certainly wouldn't want to stifle that with a baby in the mix and having to find days out to suit a wide range of ages. 
Good luck in your decision ladies and all the best for the future.


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## Bubblicious

Thank you for another perspective,  beachbaby. Your post has been very useful to me.  A lot of what you have to say really resonates with me.  I have been thinking a lot and embracing my new found freedom.  I'm not redundant as a mother.  I am still very much needed to support my youngest baby through the changes that come with big school. I feel a lot more rational about things.  Thank you everyone.


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## staceysm

Hi,

Beachbaby, what a great post.  I always wanted 3/4 children, but now I have the two, I do feel that a lot of activities, days outs and hotels/apartments cater for 4.  Legoland recently, we could all go on the rides and stayed in the hotel, our car is big enough and when going abroad it's a lot easier as we only need a 1 bedroom facility.

It's a tough one though, as you feel that the decision to decide on how big your family is, has been taken a way from you.  It doesn't mean you are not happy with the family you do have.  I still love looking in mother care and looking at the new stuff and gadgets that are now available.

Good luck on whatever you decide bub.

X


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## emmastar

Hi all,
I know this is an older thread but wondered if anyone was still around and trying for another? We've started but it feels a lonely journey! Xx


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## aissha

Hi Emmastar,
I guess maybe not, but I am here... We have just had our first FET trying for #3, which gave me a bfn yesterday. I am lucky in that I have 5 more frosties left, but really torn because myself and my dh have agreed that we will not do another fresh IVF. It's not that I would want to do another fresh IVF, I have done several (and luckily had frosties to use up in between) but I found them so emotionally and phyiscally traumatic, that I don't want to put myself through that again (and also have been blessed with 2 DS).

But the niggling at the back of my mind is that if I do another 5 FET or even if we don't have good thawing and end up only with 1 or 2 more FET, I will be so drawn back into the whole process, that I will be unable/unwilling to just stop.

are you trying fresh or frozen? what stage are you at?

glad to find someone else in the same boat


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## emmastar

Hi Aissha,
Thanks so much for your msg. I'd never wish the whole difficulty in conceiving journey on anyone but if others are going through it I'm glad to have found someone to talk to! I totally get that fear or worry about being drawn back into the whole process. When we started talking about trying for a 3rd I reassured my husband that I was happy to just see how we go, I wouldn't get all ott about it and if it happened that's great and if not then I'd be happy with the 2 we have.  That lasted about 5 minutes! I think it's just like a trigger that taps straight back into all of that pain that was so huge when we didn't know if we'd ever even have 1 child. And despite having 2 wonderful ds now I immediately feel all of that 'will we get pregnant?' pain again. I absolutely know how blessed I am and know it'll be ok if we stick with 2,  it must just be when you've felt all that pain and anxiety once then it's very easy to bring it all up again even though the circumstances are different.  We didn't get to ivf in the end. I have pcos and we ttc for 4 yrs until I had my ds. We'd had a year of clomid and IUI and on my last month of clomid (+ acupuncture) before ivf we conceived.  I'd had 2 mc's previously but he stuck and is now 3. My dd is 1 and a true miracle baby, I was on treatment for something entirely different and it happened to trigger ovulation and we got pregnant. I couldn't  believe it. But I'm on no treatment at the moment so we're trying naturally but I don't ovulate properly so it's unlikely to happen without meds. I've been referee but don't know what options are available now we have kids. I'm sorry you got a bfn, no matter how far down the road we are they're always so disappointing aren't they


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## aissha

hi emmastar, 
have you looked into alternative therapies for this time? I know many people are skeptical but some of these treatments have been around for many years and work for many many people. I tried acupuncture, but didn't find a therapist who was fertility focussed and also it was really awkward to get to so I was always super stressed from traffic by the time I got there, so in the end just stopped. But I fell in love with reflexology, I found the most wonderful lady who has become a lovely friend over the years and I am not sure we would have made it to our first bfp without her. For that cycle, I was doing short sessions every few days really focussed on the relevant areas... my attitude is it can't do any harm and maybe these ancient arts can unlock that little niggle that is preventing success - and even if it is not at all helpful, it certainly makes you less stressed, which has to be a good thing.
has your pcos been affected by the pregnancies? my fundamental issue is lack of own cycle, but it was compounded by really thin lining, which miraculously seems to have ceased to be a problem after pregnancy, so that is amazing (and gives me some hope).
If you are only trying to create ovulation, then I think the drugs should be fairly cheap. It is generally the ivf drugs and the procedures that are expensive. It might even be something your gp can prescribe (although I guess it would be better to consult a gynae).
how would you decide to stop though? this is the tricky thing for me to imagine myself really just stopping without a successful conclusion....


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## emmastar

Hi Aissha,
How are you? So sorry for taking so long to reply!! My little girl has been quite poorly so I haven't had a moment, but thankfully she's now on the mend so time to catch up on everything! It's funny you say that as I'm actually starting acupuncture again tomorrow! I did it before and got pregnant straight away so thought it was worth a try again.  Thankfully it's just down the road so should be a more relaxing experience than it was for you. That's great you found reflexology helped, would you do it again? I honestly don't know how I'd decide to stop trying if it came to that, unless it was out of my hands I'd find that really hard. How about you? X


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## aissha

glad to hear your little girl is on the mend... this whole ttc journey is so different when you are already lucky enough to have 2. my dh travels a lot so anything that is not work, looking after kids or dashing to appointments seems to be impossible at the moment.

I am currently again on 2ww, I am just doing back to back cycles with these frosties. So this time the first frostie didnt survive the thaw and the 2nd did, but had not grown in the 24 hours from thaw... so the doc was not optimistic, but it didn't meet the criteria for thawing another so that was what we got.

so you are going to do natural ttc with acupuncture? Oh wouldn't it be wonderful if that worked   As I do not have the possibility of natural ttc, it seems somehow scary to me, as there is no finish line. But equally that could be great that finances (and tough ivf ) would not force you to stop... confusing eh  

I know it is probably a daft question, but could you take that medication again to trigger ovulation?


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## emmastar

Where in your tww are you? I'm due Tuesday ish but natural cycle and no clear ovulation signs so not at all hopeful. I can't have any more of those meds as they're really expensive and I couldn't get a prescription as I don't need them for what they're actually intended for. I started acupuncture today though and have a gynae apt to discuss clomid although not hugely hopeful. I totally get what you mean about not knowing when to stop. Either situation isn't great but even if I just did completely natural cycles I'd always wonder what if we got lucky this time and would fine it hard not to think we were trying every month. Maybe the time comes to start contraception to take away the what ifs to know it really wasn't possible, I don't know really


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone is still following this thread? Hoping to have a cycle for #3 this year but need to get our finances in order first.


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone is still following this thread? Hoping to have a cycle for #3 this year but need to get our finances in order first.


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## aissha

hi penelope, 
I am still here, going more crazy and more obsessive as the days go by... I am now on my 3rd back to back FET after the first 2 failed... I had 6 frosties left over from my fresh that gave me DS2 and am whittling them down quite rapidly and unsuccessfully  I will hopefully be back in for transfer on Thursday... then just another dreaded 2ww  

are you going to go for a fresh cycle? 

hi emma if you are still here.... sorry I didn't get back to you. Hope your gynae appointment was useful


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi,

Thanks for your reply. So sorry to hear about your failed FETs. Hoping it's third time lucky for you this time. Doesn't get any easier though does it, no matter how many times you go through it.

Yes it will  be fresh for us as we've never had any Frosties. We really want to start cycling as soon as possible but we're still recovering financially from the last cycles that gave us our gorgeous boys. I'm so worried about my age don't really want to leave it too late. 

X


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi aissha,

Just wondering how your last cycle went? 

Emmastar are you still lurking?


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## aissha

Hi Penelope,

BFN for me. No frosties left, I'm now closer to 41 than 40, still totally wanting #3, but not sure that it can ever happen. Having had such a bad run with the thawing (effectively only 1 out of 6 thawed and developed to be what I would consider viable), it is even harder to think about going for a fresh, as I found it so traumatic - but always thought at least the frozen are easier on the body and mind... but now I don't have any faith that freezing and thawing is possible.
My DH is very concerned about fresh at our age, the risks, the trauma of ivf, everything. but I am so focussed on the hope of #3 that I know I am glossing over the harsh reality.
do you have a plan for your next cycle?


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## Penelope Pitstop

Oh I'm so sorry Aissha. Do you have a plan with your clinic on how to proceed from here? I understand your reluctance about going for a fresh cycle, it isn't easy and does take its  on both your mind and body. Have you had yourAMH checked to give an indication as to how you are likely to respond if you do decide to have a fresh cycle? 

I'm desperate for baby #3 too and still feeling guilty about it as already have my two amazing boys but try as I may I can't stop that longing!! We've been looking at our finances to see when we can go for a fresh cycle. I need another AMH test done before we can move forward but partly putting it off as would rather not know (petrified of it being really low) and partly because no point in having it dons until we can go ahead with a cycle as they have to be repeated every year. I don't know if you're the same but I still get so so jealous when I hear of a pregnancy or a birth!! It's ridiculous I know and hate feeling like it but it really affects me.

Sending you big hugs 

Xx


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## deblovescats

Just saw this thread and was interested as I'd like no 3.
So sorry to hear your news Penelope - take time to think it through and do what ever is best for you. I know how you feel - I also feel greedy for even thinking about going for no 3 when some women can't get no 1. However, I had always wanted 3 children (I'd also hoped for the soulmate as well, but that didn't happen, so went for it alone as something I could do). I used double donation due to my age and no partner, was lucky. I have 2 lovely children, a son nearly 3 and a 6 month old daughter(from FET from same batch of embryos). I have 2 from same batch frozen and am thinking about a cycle later in the year to try for no 3. I know it's most likely not to happen but want to give it a go, can't bear to leave the embryos! 
Good luck


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## aissha

Hi Deb and Penelope,

thanks for your messages... after a lot of thought we are going to go with OI until my birthday (I will be 41). At the moment I am feeling much more at peace with the idea of not succeeding in my dream and have drawn this deadline of September as it should give us more than 1 attempt. I have thought a lot about it (well really I have thought about little else   ) and for the sake of my DH and 2 DS, it is only fair to draw the line. 
I spoke with a counsellor last week and will speak with him again in September once I am done (although as he reminded me, I might not need to as I might be preg!!!  - it really had not crossed my mind)
So I think I am resigning myself to the end of the road, but need to do these cycle (s) to not look back and think I wish...
Also having DH sperm analysis, just to make sure that there is a chance for us. Afterall for me OI is still injections (no cycle of my own so I don't think my amh measure would give accurate info?) so I don't want to do all that if DH now has issues (he is older and last fresh cycle is 4 years ago)

best of luck for when you try Deb   
and Penelope I really struggle with those preg's as well, especially a "friend" who whinges about her ds all the time and is now expecting a girl (which if I am honest is all I dream of) I also have a gorgeous new nephew and every photo hits me like a train   Is it at all possible for you to do OI?

anyway, all being well with DH results, I will start next week   
 to you


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi aissha and welcome deb,

Sorry for being a bit dim, what is OI? X


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## Penelope Pitstop

Just checked google, is OI ovulation induction? If so, this option isn't open to me aissha as I've had to have my Fallopian tubes removed. We're hoping to cycle a bit later in the year but I'm already trying to prepare myself that it won't work and that I won't get baby #3. We can only afford 2 cycles and we've always had one cycle fail first. I'm also that much older now. 

Aissha, are you taking any supplements/vitamins to improve egg quality? I'm just starting to think about that now and wondering what to take.


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## Inaaya

Hi all also interested in this thread as hoping to go back for Frosties in October this year! 

Xxx


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi inaaya,

Welcome x


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## aissha

Welcome Inaaya, best of luck for October 

hey penelope, oh I am sorry, that sounds awful having your tubes removed 

talking about supplements, I read the angelbumps post about supplements (worth a read if you haven't, http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=226042.0) and it sounds like a huge amount of different things, but then I read the back of the pregnacare conception vitamins and it seemed to be mostly covered by those, so I was just taking those last cycle... but now I have run out and am actually just waiting for the call from the doc to say if we can go ahead and I will order them (as I do not live in the uk). also I have been using crushed brazil nuts in my granola mix(not sure if it makes a difference  ).


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## Inaaya

My clinic have asked me to have bloods done which include tsh, free t3 and free t4.  My tsh I had done last month by gp when I had my fsh done my tsh was 1.4 so normal range would I still need free t3 and t4 do u guys think?? Just trying to save some money on unnecessary things really xx


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## Inaaya

They have also asked me to get a gynae ultrasound scan or a 3D scan mid cycle is one better than the other? Is gynae Ultrasound a normal scan to check uterine cavity for when I book or do I ask for something else? Xx


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi innaya, 
I'm sorry but I'm not able to help as don't have experience or knowledge of these tests. Hoping someone else can help as would be good if you could save some money by not having unnecessary tests done! Xx


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## aissha

Sorry, Inaaya, I don't know those tests either... 

Rarely have I had the gynae actually do the ultrasound but they do them very frequently for my cycles (but I am not in the uk and it is not pay as you go, but insurance based, so everything is included in the price)

It would be worth posting in the starting out board with your questions or if you are at a private clinic on the board for that (if there is one)... hope you get some answers


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## Penelope Pitstop

I'm in need of a rant/emotional outburst sorry ladies. Although we can't afford to cycle just yet I've already started stressing about it not working and how I'll cope. I can't seem to get my head around eating healthy and have started craving chocolate (my big weakness) as a way of coping with my emotions around IVF and then I'm beating myself up for eating it in the first place!!  

I saw my sisters 4 month old yesterday and it really hit me how broody I am and how much I long for another baby. Sounds silly as I guess I knew that already otherwise wouldn't be planning to cycle again but I've been trying to get my head around the fact that it may not work or we may not be able to afford to do the treatment at all so I've been keeping the longing for a third baby buried deep down and it all came to the surface yesterday. 

Sorry, I know you ladies feel the same. I just needed to let it out as have no one else to talk to about this.

Hope everyone is ok


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## Whirlygig

*Penelope Pitstop* BIG HUGS. Totally get it. As joyous as I was with friends and family being pregnant, I couldn't help feelings of jealousy, then feeling utterly selfish for not being 100% pleased, purely for them. It was so conflicting knowing how hard it was to get pregnant and them finally getting there, I was genuinely so excited for them. The pregnancies would bring up emotions that I was trying to bury/hide/be at peace with. 
Ultimately, wanting that 3rd is really what you want and you can only do your best to try for the bub when you're able. Stressing about it not working is natural, considering how much is at stake for you. I don't have any wise words, just letting you know you're not alone.


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## Penelope Pitstop

Whirligig, thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. It does help to k ow I'm not alone in feeling this way.


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## aissha

hey penelope,    you are not alone and we are here to support, so let it all out  

it doesn't help. but your emotions are so similar to mine, I feel like I am in the "pretending it will all be fine no matter what" stage... 

try not to beat yourself up, I don't think chocolate is such a bad vice  take it one day at a time and give yourself days off for good behaviour. nutrition is a long term thing, not a daily thing. if you take a vitamin today, it is not going to help, but if you take it for the next month all except a few days, then it will be able to help, so I think you can take the same approach with healthy eating. my dh started doing fresh fruit for breakfast when I was preg the first time and it is a habit that has stuck and I don't even notice or worry about my 5 a day once I have had that...

I had the same this weekend with my new nephew and tbh I avoided holding him as I wasn't sure I would not well up and ruin his lovely christening day...   

hope you are feeling better today


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi Aissha, 
Thank you for your reply. I am feeling a little better thanks. It comes over in waves doesn't it? You think you've made your peace with things almost convince yourself you're ok with whatever happens and then something triggers all the emotions and feet that you managed to control so well. 

Ahh bless you, not being able to hold your nephew. I was worried about holding mine too and I had both my sister and mother watching me like a hawk to see if I was showing any sign of any emotion. Felt like I was under a microscope!! (My family aren't most sensitive or empathetic about my infertility). 

You're exactly right about nutrition and the odd lapse with treats. I do have a good diet generally and so I do allow myself a treat without feeling guilty but was feeling particularly negative about everything when I wrote that post!!! 

As much as I don't want to wish these feelings and this emotional rollercoaster on anyone else it is a comfort to know I'm not alone. 

Hope you're ok? 

Xx


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## aissha

I am fine, just don't get me started on the insensitivity of family    I know I am sensitive, but really nobody seems to remember all we went through to get where we are ...

I have not told any of them we are ttc#3 because it is clear they look at me and just think: well they are done, she is 40, so obviously she could not possibly even be considering it...  

when do you think you will cycle?


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## Penelope Pitstop

We haven't told our family we are going to ttc #3 either as our parents, particularly mine think we shouldn't have mouths 2 children because we need ivf. Whereas my mother often tells me about how many children my sister and her husband plan on having as he wants a big family!!! 

I'm hoping we can plan to cycle soon. We're just in the proof remortgaging to to be able to pay for it (that wasn't the only reason but it will allow us to pay for two cycles). I need my amh checked first though and I want hubby to go for a sperm test too as although he didn't have any issues before it's been over 3 years since we had last treatment and want to check all is ok before we go ahead. 

How is the OI going for you? 

Xx


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## aissha

good idea to get the tests, even if it is scary. I was dreading the results of DH sperm analysis, as it also had been 3 years. "fine" was how the doc described it!!   

OI is slooooow... 3 weeks of stims and still no follies worth talking about. But I do understand why the doc is doing it this way as overstim-cancel-&-start again will take longer (only just about at this stage   ) and it is giving me a chance to get the vitamins and milk properly kicked in as I was not up to speed when I started  

do you ever do FET or just fresh cycles?


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## Penelope Pitstop

We've never had anything to freeze so only ever had fresh cycles. 

I need to get my head around vitamins. Take a multivitamin but when we were ttc last time I did take a few more supplements (not as many as they suggested in that thread you shared the link of!!!). 

I can understand the frustration of the wait with OI but as you said so much better to take it at a slow pace than rush it and over stimulate. 

Yes the thought of the tests are scary but would rather know if there are other problems early on than encounter them mid cycle.


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi Aissha,

Just wondered how you were and how the OI cycle is going? 

I spent the day with family last Sat which inc my little nephew so obviously left feeling a mix of emotions. I'm having a weird cycle this month, had all my usual OV signs at the right time but they lasted for well over a week (perhaps 2) and now my period is several days late with no sign of being imminent. I can't be pregnant as that would be nothing short of a miracle so now I've gone into a mild panic that it's a sign I could be peri menopausal!!!! Have asked hubby if i can book AMH test as soon as remortgage goes through as it's starttto stress me out now. Not sure what I'll do if it's really low. Would be devastated. 

Sorry for long waffling rant. 

Xx


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## aissha

Hi Penelope,

have you done a hpt?? the amount of people I have seen on here with a "surprise natural bfp" makes me certain that miracles do happen  I don't know much about AMH but in general try not to worry about something that is not yet a problem (let's be fair, we have enough problems that we do know of to deal with !!), wait until you have the test and then deal with the problem if it is there - easier said than done I know  

OI is still trundling along  honestly it is 5 weeks since I started stimming.... but (drumroll please!!) ... I triggered on Friday... however, it is not as exciting as all that... the doc decided that my blood test level estrogen was perfect, so ignored a ~6mm lining and a 14-16mm follicle(s) (not sure whether she scanned 2 follies or the same one with two different measurements)... so we duly did the business   and now I have to wait until Friday for a progesterone test, and then the following friday for a preg test... they have refused to use any progesterone support as I "should" have enough if I have a good ovulation... and if I don't then it was no good, and my 5 weeks is down the drain   when I was talking to the doc on the phone, we were already planning the next cycle, so let's just say no one is really expecting anything out of this  my only hope is that a lot of lessons are learned and the next cycle can be better...

Oh for your DH, might be worth getting him started now on the Pregnacare conception for men and also a friend recommended the boots sustained release vit c &zinc as being very good for the swimmers...

I wish we could have a scanner to use on ourselves to look inside and see (and understand) what was going on     

take care hun   and do that test


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## Penelope Pitstop

I did a hpt last night and as I knew it would be it was a bfn. Would be lovely to be one of those miracles you hear about but extremely unlikely. 

Well done on getting to trigger, hope it is a successful cycle for you despite your worries about lining and follicle size. 

Thanks for the info re vits for hubby. Had him pregnacare last time. 

X


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## aissha

sorry to hear about the bfn  

I think if this cycle worked it would be in the surprise miracle category!! but I have a chance I guess


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi Aissha 
Hope the progesterone results come back okay for you today x


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## aissha

Hi penelope,
Weird result... doc said it was 26 and they are happy with anything over 20, but I know UK clinics seem to think 30 is a good level. I'm happy that the ovulation seems to have taken place as expected but no getting away from the skinny lining....
Thanks for asking


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## aissha

So to finish the story, AF turned up, 5 days earlier than the doc expected







if I wasn't so gutted, I would be just saying told you so to the doc....


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## Penelope Pitstop

Oh Aissha I am so so sorry. Sending you big big hugs. I know you weren't overly hopeful about the outcome of this cycle but still there is always that little glimmer of hope that it may just work isn't there . xx


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## aissha

alas always, I always delude myself that I will somehow defy medical science    

hopefully will talk to the doctor tomorrow (although the clinic were just like oh he is going on holidays for 3 weeks next week... like I was supposed to just wait  , so I had to say, uh maybe I can talk to another doctor?!) and get started again...

have you decided on doing the amh test?


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## Penelope Pitstop

We are all the exactly the same, we believe that we are going to be that miracle story that you hear about!!! You are not alone but it doesn't make it any easier to pick yourself back up again. 

That is a bit naughty of your clinic to expect you to wait 3 weeks!!! 

Yeah, I'm going to have my AMH done this month!! Just waiting for remortage to go through then Im going to book it. Dreading the result but it has to be done so I know if we can go ahead with a cycle


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## aissha

The clinics are all the same, the person who answers the phone asks for your info so they can bring up your file, but then it clearly is not containing any information that is actually useful for the conversation, like the discussion I had with the doc to go ahead with the next cycle straight away, or that I am only doing this until Sept so no, a casual 3 week wait does not fit   

Excellent news on the AMH test. No matter what the result, it will help you move on to the next step. Information is always good, even if it brings bad news (better than paying for a cycle without considering a bad result - if you know what I mean)... doesn't make it less scary or worrying before.  Please do let me know how you get on     And then you plan to do IVF next month? Or later?


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## Penelope Pitstop

That was my thoughts exactly about paying for a cycle without checking g the vital statistics first!! I.e sperm and Eggs. I would like to start a cycle in sept but not sure if hubby is on the same page as me with that!!!


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi Aissha,

How are you? Have you managed to speak to your clinic about moving forward with the next cycle? 

I finally plucked up the courage to have my AMH done today so now just waiting for the results 😥.  Also enquired about sperm analysis for hubby and they said just to book in.


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## aissha

Well done on getting the amh done   Hopefully it will not be as bad as you fear   When do you get the results?     

I did manage to talk to the same doc, so unsurprisingly her protocol is very textbook. Ok I am away for a week so they can't early scan me but still, she has insisted that I start on 75 even though I didn't get a response until 150 last time...
 
So I will have a scan next Tues to see that shock horror, 75 doesn't work. And then I will start on 112.5 no doubt. I think even with her plodding manner I should be able to get to the right level before I have to go away again. 
She insists that now research showsthat the lining thickness is not the big deal it was considered to be 5 years ago  And yet in the 5 previous  years of ttc , plagued with thin lining I never was able to get a bfp until I had a 7mm lining. 
I am planning to ask if she can explain why I can get 9-10mm on progynova but not on menopur...


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi, 
Thank you for your kind wishes. They said it can take 7-10 days for the results to come back and they'll phone to explain it thoroughly. Hubby has also booked semen analysis for Friday. 

How frustrating about your clinic insisting on starting on the low dose again. Would definitely ask your doctor about the menopur and progynova.


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## aissha

Just wanted to say fingers crossed and thinking of you waiting for your results


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## aissha

Hi Penelope,

can you believe this? Scan, all very little going on. Lining 5.6mm, about 5 a side of 5ish mm follies, and she just wants to continue at 75iu... because it is too early to tell... even though she decided that I should not start until last monday so that I would scan on Day 8    I am so frustrated   

Hope you are having a better day


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi Aissha, 

I would be as utterly frustrated as you. I understand her being cautious but this is plain ridiculous. Can you share your concerns with her or have you done that and she has ignored them? 

Sending you hug hugs!!! 

Xx


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## Penelope Pitstop

Sorry, also meant to say thanks for your previous post. 

Could you ask to see another dr at the clinic?


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## aissha

unbelievable, I had expressed my frustration  and the nurse that I was talking to said she would talk to the doc again - but if I didn't hear back just to stay as she said on 75... and she just called back (the key point being that she said she spoke with a different Doc) and I can increase the dose!!    

The normal doc I see is on leave for 3 weeks. If this cycle is the same bust as the last one, I plan to sit down with him before I go for the last of all cycles and really get a decent plan together of optimising my chances (of course I am still 40 going on 41, so the chances are not high, but I really do not need them lowered by silly doctors  )

Oh I feel about 5kg lighter  it is like a physical weight has been lifted off me.


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## Penelope Pitstop

Fab news!!!! So glad that nurse listened to you and the doctor has agreed to increase the dose. When is your next scan?


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## aissha

Friday morning, so hopefully if there is no change, they will go up again, as I really don't imagine that these low doses are going to work on this cycle when they didn't last time...

I asked about progynova and she said they didn't do that but they sometimes do the patches... so hopefully I can get some of those once things start growing   

did your DH do his SA?


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## Penelope Pitstop

That sounds a lot more positive than just coasting along on a low dose. Hoping this dr can get you that bfp while the other one is away!!

Yes, hubby did SA on fri and results came back normal. My clinic have just rung with my AMH and it's a good range for my age so we can go ahead with treatment planning. Hubby is keen to get going asap but I've only just ordered my vitamins and  I'm still anxious my eggs will be poor quality.


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## aissha

Wonderful news, you must be so relieved   how will it work now? do you have to go on a waiting list? long protocol or short? down reg? by the time you are actually cycling you should have been having the vitamins for a decent amount of time...

for now you can start with the 2+ litres of water, glass of milk, folic acid and vit D (if you have it) for you and plenty of protein for you both...

I am super excited for you


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## Penelope Pitstop

Thank you! 

I've ordered a vitamin d spray as well as my multivitamins. Was considering inositol also, have you heard anything about it? I'm also debating acupuncture as had it when conceived by boys but not sure if can afford it. 

Will probably be a long protocol with Down reg but will need to check this with clinic at planning appointment fri. No idea about a waiting list either so will ask about that too.


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## aissha

I have never heard of inositol, but I just checked the pregnacare conception list of contents and it is included there. Which vitamins are you getting? If you have a good acupuncturist and can afford it, I would go for it. I never found one that I was happy with but was doing reflexology the last successful times. I loved it but logistically with the 2 at home, I just can't figure how I would manage appointments...

Super that you have your appointment Friday, you should make a list of your questions on your phone as you think of them between now and then - if you are anything like me, I'm always  and forget the questions I had until I am walking out of the hospital   

great that your hubby is keen, mine is so over this whole process now, it has been dragging on and on and he just feels it is all for nothing... so we are booking a holiday for the week of my birthday so that we have something happy assuming nothing happens in the next (I just counted) 7 weeks. Gosh it is not long


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## Penelope Pitstop

I've been taking a general multivitamin for a while and have just ordered the zita west vitafem as took that with previous cycles. I had already checked ingredients but I'll check again for the inositol. 

To be honest I'm not sure how I'm going to fit in acupuncture appointments either but was going to email to see if I can  just have a few sessions at the key times. 

Don't get me wrong I'm am the one driving ttc #3 but hubby is happy to go along with it, he just doesn't want it ruling our lives for months on end so would rather just get on with it. 

I really hope you can go on your holiday with a bfp xxx


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## aissha

Scan this morning, follies still the same as Tuesday   But bizarrely lining is now 3mm... i don't think it's getting thinner, I think they are just inept at measurement   
Waiting for the call to hopefully increase the dose... but who knows   

How was your appointment?


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi Aissha, 

How can they not provide accurate measurements for something so important?!?!?

Hoping they increase the dose for you.

Appointment went well thanks, can start with my next period which is quite scary!!! Just ironing out a few medication queries and they will order the medication. It all seems a bit surreal at the moment as have been waiting for so long to get to this stage I think I convinced myself it wouldn't happen.


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi Aissha,

Did the clinic get back to you after regarding increasing/not your dose? 
Can I pick your brains about reflexology? The acupuncturist I used for previous cycles has retired and although her colleague is still practising I have used her before and didn't enjoy my treatment with her so reluctant to go there. I have found a reflexologist but have never had it before so wondered if you could tell me what it involves? When do you have it throughout your treatment? Does it need to be at specific times? 

Sorry for bombarding you with questions

Liz


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## aissha

Hi,
Alas they decided to keep me on the same dose and no scan until Tuesday   . I am totally disillusioned now and just counting down until my proper doc is back from hols  
I really enjoyed my reflexology, initially I used to go every week once a week and it was a nice destress and chill out on a Sunday afternoon. On the cycle that worked with my first bfp, she developed a tailored approach of 20 minute sessions  (rather than the usual 1hr) a few times a week for the 2 weeks of the stims.  she focused on the lining which was my problem area, concentrating on the uterus, which is on your foot between the ankle and heel on the inside. ..
I was lucky my reflexologist got to know me well and did the research to know how to do the best program for a cycle..  I would ask the reflexologist if they have done fertility reflexology before, what they do differently,  how often they would see you etc? I always considered even if it did nothing,  it was a relaxing foot massage and de-stressed me every time .   
Also ask if they can do evening and weekend as it might be easier when kids are in bed? And consider how much time it takes to get there and back... my dh travels a lot for his work so I am often trapped once the boys are in bed... 
Hope that helps ask as many questions as you like


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## Penelope Pitstop

Yes thank you. My husband travels a lot with work too and we do t really have any family support so I'm not able to get out of house if he's away. 

I'm having major wobbles about starting cycling again!! I so desperately want another child but not looking forward to the rollercoaster ahead and feel like we've rushed into it and aren't fully prepared. 

Like you I'm trying to prepare myself for the reality that we may not get our dream of a third baby but it's harder to do than I thought. While we were waiting to cycle the dream was there in the distance but now we can finally start I'm scared at that dream may be shattered in a few weeks!!! Does that make sense? 

I'm sorry clinic didn't up your dose. When is your dr back? Will you be able to fit another cycle in before hols?


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## aissha

I think I have one more week of Dr  textbook. But then in less than 2 weeks, I am away for a week so basically we have to get to trigger within a week or 10 days. Otherwise, we're flying blind. 
I know what you mean. It's literally putting all your eggs in one basket   But on the other hand, just because you didn't get frosties from previous cycles doesn't mean you will not this time. 
While it isn't happening yet, you can be in the bubble of what life would be like with 3... i absolutely get that   I think we all have a tendency to look at the finish line and it's hard to just focus on each step and not fear the worst outcome when you know that everything is riding on the one cycle   

As an aside, not sure how I literally just noticed this, your two boys are literally 4 months older each of them than my two   My eldest was born feb '13 and the younger Mar '15... how bizarre eh


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## aissha

Hi, 

had my scan this morning, still nothing doing. Lining now 4mm and pretty much no follies found at all... but thankfully they have just phoned to increase the dose, so at least that is something. Another scan on Friday and hopefully there will be some action then...

how are you doing? when do you think AF will show up?


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## Penelope Pitstop

I was just about to dot a message to see how your scan went. 

Glad they have increased your dose and gave my fingers crossed your follies play ball and grow by Friday!!!

AF is due any day after tomorrow but you know what it's like, it doesn't turn up when you want it too and then does when you really don't want it too!! 

In response to your previous post, what a coincidence our little ones are so close in age!!


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## aissha

gosh so you could really be starting this week   and then is it a month for the downreg?

really really hoping something is happening by friday


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## Penelope Pitstop

Good luck for your scan tomorrow Aissha, have everything crossed for you x


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## aissha

Although I am a little sceptical about the number,  she measured my lining at 7mm this morning at the scan.... and a single dominant follie on the left of 12mm... finally some progress


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## Penelope Pitstop

Woo hooo!!! What's the stage? 

No sign if my AF!!!


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## aissha

With alleged 2mm growth per day, I could be triggering Monday, I am waiting for the call back to confirm scan Monday


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## Penelope Pitstop

Great stuff. Hopefully this cycle will be a lot shorter for you and you'll get your bfp in time for hols!!!! 

AF arrived this afternoon so clinic have amended all my dates and start down reg in 21 days time x


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## Inaaya

Penelope exciting times ahead!! 

Aisha 7mm lining wow! Keeping everything crossed for u!!
I have my dates now for possible transfer depending on lining playing ball! 
Aiming towards 29 sperneber!! Will be getting my protocol soon and clinic have posted my prescription so I can get from Asda zxx


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## Penelope Pitstop

Morning!

Good luck for your scan this morning Aissha, fingers crossed you can trigger today!!

Hello again Inaaya. Fab news about transfer date at the end of September.


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## aissha

I am a ball of nerves now... over the weekend my DS decided to dive across me in bed in the morning and with the worst luck in the world he elbowed me exactly in my left ovary





















I know exactly where it is as they always spend ages trying to find it from inside - and in fact have found it easier from scanning from my tummy... so I am just freaked that he has somehow burst the follie and the scan is going to be showing nothing....

excellent news Inaaya, I have had a lot of years of thin lining issues, once you start your cycle, make sure you are drinking plenty of milk, eating pineapple and brazil nuts and of course taking some sort of conception vitamins... I heard also pomegranate juice is good. my clinic is now saying that what used to be the holy grail of 7mm is no longer considered necessary - research has shown pregnancies at 6mm or even less... but tbh I don't think there are the same level of successes with really thin linings, but there are some... what protocol will you have?


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## aissha

So the scan this morning was ok/good... she measured the lining and I am sure it said 1.05cm    like 10mm   but yet she wrote down in my file 8mm   

on the left my dominant follie seems now to be 17-18mm but there also appears to be a 14mm on the right  

so triggering this evening most likely and have begged and pleaded for progesterone support, but not very hopeful after she said 10 day luteal phase is "not so short"   

Can't hardly believe that this cycle is progressing.... it has dragged on soo long...


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## Penelope Pitstop

Fab news Aissha!!! Sounds like everything is perfect!! 

Xx


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## Penelope Pitstop

I hope the clinic give you some progesterone to support your luteal phase x


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## Inaaya

Fab news Aisha!

Protocol will be just progesterone and prognova and aspirin I think 
I was on clexane and steroids for my previous cycles but they affect me so much I have asked to try a low meds one this time xx


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## aissha

Thanks ladies   

Inaaya, it might be worth asking about the estradiol patches... I used those for my previous  FET and what I have read about them is that they are specifically for helping "lazy linings"


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi Aissha,

Just wondering if the clinic agreed to give you some luteal phase support after? 

My drugs arrived yesterday but it still doesn't feel real at the moment. Think there are so many hurdles to get over I can only focus on one day at a time. 

A friend of my husbands family had a baby boy this morning and I thought I was ok with it as knew she was due about now but when I saw the picture I felt really jealous and full of envy!! Silly really but totally not in control of those feelings at all. 

Hope you are well

xx


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## aissha

Hi 

I know exactly how you mean, you just take one look at the picture and it takes you to the place you want to be, imagining being the one holding your own precious baby again    

and also about the hurdles. One day at a time is a good way to focus. I get carried away always and it just makes it hurt more I think. But I struggle to focus on the now...

Amazingly they did agree to give it to me, but the practicalities meant I had to go twice to the pharmacy as it was not available when I first went -even though the nurse had said it would be... So I luckily had one left over from FET, so started with that on Monday night and then collected the prescription on Tuesday... she has reduced the dose, from 3 to 2 as I guess she is taking into account the level I had on the last cycle. Fairly certain I felt the ovulation this morning, I am not really familiar with what it should feel like   

Had some bad news about my friends sister who is only in her 30's but in a hospice now   and it really makes me think, you know what I am lucky beyond belief, I have so much, I should be happy with all the things I do have, rather than stressing about the one thing I don't. Quite a reality check...


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi Aissha, 

How are you? 

Sorry I haven't replied to your last post we went camping for a few days. I'm so sorry to hear about your sisters friend. Something like that does put things into perspective doesn't it. 

X


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## aissha

Unfortunately it's yet another BFN for me. And I think it is the end of the road for me. thanks for all of the support   and I hope everyone gets their BFP


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## Inaaya

Aissha Hun I'm so sorry   X


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## aissha

thanks Inaaya


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## Inaaya

Penelope how are u?? Where are u with treatment? I have my baseline scan Friday to check lining  has shed then hopefully start meds Saturday for fet firsr week  October xx


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## Penelope Pitstop

Hi inaaya,

Sorry for taking so long to respond to your last post...I've been keeping my distance from ff as don't want to get too caught up with this all if you understand what I mean? I'm currently on day 5 of stimms but it's unclear if they will allow me to continue for much longer due to the size of my hydrosalpinx. I had a scan this morning and the nurse was very worried about how they will access my ovaries so didn't really check follies on any detail. They have told me to continue until weds and they will scan again whilst a doctor is present to see if it is viable to proceed. 

Anyway, how was your scan? Have you started your meds yet?

Hi to Aissha if you're reading from hols xx


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## aissha

Hi Penelope Pitstop 

Just back from hols and came on to see how you are getting on  Is the hydrosalpinx getting worse with the stims? Hope they can find a good solution for you   keep us posted...

Hey Inaaya, hope your scan went well


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## Inaaya

First scan was ok and I started meds but subsequent scans and my lining just hasn't grown :-( 
Think this cycle will be abandoned xx


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## aissha

Hi Inaaya, 

what are you taking (supplements/vitamins) for your lining? if nothing, then get started on brazil nuts, pineapple chunks (as much core as you can manage) red raspberry leaf tea (not after ovulation), pomegranate juice and hopefully it will turn around. It can improve in just a couple of days....

fingers crossed


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## Inaaya

Hey took eveything u mentioned but nothing worked so my cycle was abandoned how are u xx


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## Inaaya

Hi Aisha and Penelope!! 
How are u both? So I had my fet and have just got my bfp!! Xx


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