# feeling pretty low, looking for a bit of hope/advice!



## loobylu1980 (Jun 15, 2014)

Hi there, 

Was looking for a bit of hope/advice really. Have been ttc for 4 years, 6 months of clomid and had 1 failed fresh and frozen cycle. We are looking to cycle again July/August. I have never been pregnant and we are unexplained! I am finding this so frustrating, each month between treatment I hope it will happen naturally. I just think there must be something wrong that hasn't been spotted. We are 34 and in good health, my partner has very slight raised antibodies. We have had excellent quality embryos with great fertilisation. Just wish I knew why its not happening! Anyone else in a similar boat? Am feeling so low all the time. 
Thanks so much   x


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## Jomojo (Jan 17, 2014)

Hi Loobylu, I'm in the same boat as you. Ttc 3 years and two failed fresh cycles with 4 top quality embryos transferred and no bfp. We are unexplained too so like you I hold on to hope that it might happen naturally but I know that every month that goes by the chances of this happening are probably decreasing. Our second cycle failed a month ago and I'm still feeling very low about it and have considered going to see my gp but I have a very stressful job and if I was signed off work on the sick I would just stress about going back to work! Are you trying anything different for your next cycle?
Big hugs.  
Xx


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## loobylu1980 (Jun 15, 2014)

thanks so much for your reply! We are having some more tests, thinking of having my NK cells tested in Warwick. So sorry about your failed cycle, its so hard to come to terms with. Fingers crossed this will be a good year for both of us! x


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## Bluebell82 (Jan 24, 2015)

Hi Loobylu and Jomojo,
Sorry for you failed cycles. I'm in a similar situation. TTC for 3.5h years, in my early 30s, unexplained, two failed IVF cycles.
In our case embryo quality hasn't been great. Interestingly it only showed after day 3. Jomojo, maybe see if they can transfer embryos on day 5/6 rather than 3 next time, so that you can see if they develop poorly after day 3. We had 4 lovely 8 cell embryos during our first IVF cycle, but they were all delayed on day 5 and the ones that weren't transferred were not good enough for freezing on day 6. My recipient in the egg-sharing cycle also had slow growing embryos on day 5, although one apparently looked lovely on day 6. Unfortunately, looks aren't everything ...
If several of your embryos look great on day 5, then immune testing sounds like a good idea. Maybe also DNA fragmentation for DP sperm, especially if embryos slow after day 3. Ours came back just fine, though, but if high, you may be able to switch to ICSI. 

So frustrating isn't it? Maybe we're just the unlucky bunch and next cycle, it will be our turn ...


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## Bluebell82 (Jan 24, 2015)

Jomojo,

How good is your clinic? Have you checked statistics on HFEA website? Wondering if you could get more eggs and more mature eggs with better stimulation protocol... What is your AMH and antral follicle count?
Sometimes switching to a better clinic (=higher success rates) can give you more embryos = more chances of finding the good embryo that will stick ... I'm currently looking at ARGC, they are in London and very successful... They also do the whole immune implantation issue stuff.


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## Jomojo (Jan 17, 2014)

Hi Loobylu, NK cells testing sounds like a really good idea -let me know how you get on hun. How you holding up? I'm finally starting to feel a bit better after 4 weeks- been so emotional which is unlike me (perhaps to do with all the left over hormones!) Have you had a review appointment at your clinic following your failed cycle yet?

Hi Bluebell, thank yo so much for your suggestions- really useful info! that's really interesting about the quality not showing until after day 3. My understanding is that could in some circumstances be an issue with sperm DNA which plays an important role after day 3? (but this has been ruled out in your case I see). Been looking into dh having a DNA fragmentation test - where did you go to have this done and how much did it cost if you don't mind me asking? (Struggling to find somewhere in NE but hopefully the clinic can advise me). I think we have an egg quality issue too- on my second cycle 5 out of the 7 eggs fertilised but two 'super fertilised' with more than one sperm getting in (one of our 4 mature eggs did this on first cycle). I don't think the protocol I'm on is doing my egg quality any favours- I'm wondering whether I might do better on the short protocol. I was on max dose stims for cycle 2 but only ended up with 2 more eggs than first cycle (and only one more embie). I'm not sure what my amh or afc are but I was told all hormone levels were perfect and to expect a decent amount of eggs so I think my relatively poor response was unexpected for them. Will definitely be asking for all my test results at my next appointment tho! My clinic has very good stats but if they just suggest trying the same thing for cycle 3 I probably will look to change. I've heard really good things about ARGC and I reckon they will be able to give you some answers. When are you planning to have your next cycle?

Fx that we have all just been unlucky so far and that third time will be the charm for us all! 

Xx


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## Bluebell82 (Jan 24, 2015)

Jomojo, yes, on day 3 embryo switches on its genome properly, including the paternal. My husband has normal sperm parameters and even DNA fragmentation is in the normal range, but his swimmers are still suspect as my eggs look just as fine (stalemate )

Although eggs are often suspect I bet there are cases where male factors play a role even with normal parameters, especially in some couples with unexplained diagnosis. Unfortunately, it's really hard to separate egg and sperm issues, so one has to go through several failed cycles and collect clues before it is time to switch one of the ingredients.

We had DNA fragmentation test done at the Lister clinic in London where we were egg sharing. It took about a month to get results back and was 500 pounds.

Hmm, if they already put you on high dose, then maybe your ovaries don't want to make more eggs. I think this sometimes happens. Switching protocols may work, I have got no experience, sounds certainly like worth trying. I have been on long protocol both times. I guess getting all or most of the eggs to maturity would be important, if you are somewhat limited with egg numbers. 

We had one egg fertilise abnormally each time, so maybe your results aren't that unusual? ICSI may fix this, but then there's a chance that some eggs may not survive the injection procedure, so not sure which way you'd be better off. Doctors may be able to answer. My recipient used ICSI and she had 5 embryos out of 6 of my eggs.

We're going for next cycle in summer. I'm kind of done with relying on trying naturally, not that it couldn't happen one elusive day (with unexplained infertility we still have a 40-50% chance of it happening naturally in the newt 2-3 years), but I wanted more than one child originally (Bless!), so I'd rather have treatment now when IVF success rates are high because I luckily am still 'young'. Then leave it to mother nature to give us a sibling for our ART conceived baby . Well that's the plan at least, let's see what life actually brings.

We're going for follow up appointment in two weeks, then probably request transferring my results and book appointment at ARGC. Lister has good success rates, but they are not top and since I don't think I will be able to egg-share again and i work in London, I can as well use the clinic with the highest success rate in town.


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