# 5th Fail today



## alnoora (Jun 13, 2012)

Hi,
I'm looking for some advice I got my 5th fail today. I've had immune testing which all came back normal I had my tubes checked and it's all clear. I just don't know where to go next. I'm on my 3rd clinic and really happy with this clinic they was a lot better than my last two. I haven't been for the follow up yet but I just can't understand why it's not working?
We have male fertility issues but we have conceived our son through ICSI. 
Would love some answers on why it's not happening or what to
Try next time? 
Xx


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## Hbkmorris (Apr 7, 2010)

Hello Alnoora, 

Firstly my sincere heart goes out to you. I'm terribly sorry to hear your sad news today, life is very cruel at times and for that I send you a massive  . 

You are so lucky to have your little boy but that doesn't bring much comfort with the news of today I know.. As you can see I've had my fair share of cycles and lost my little boy at 20 weeks due to my incompetent cervix.. So very sad and so very hard after all the cycles Id done. 

So you say you've had all your immunes tested and all came back normal.. so did mine albeit for a small increase in NK cells which was discovered by a NK cell biopsy. So am I right in saying you have not had a cycle with any immunes meds? It's just a thought that sometimes (I'm proof of it) despite not having any immunes the cycles I've had immunes meds I have got a BFP.. Odd I know. It seems that more UK clinics seem to use such meds as a back up plan though I'm not saying they are right but it's just the way they roll. 

May I ask if you have had a hysto or a scratch prior to transfer? sometimes that can help with implantation. I understand it's your partner who has the low count has he ever had further testing to check for any issues within the sperm? that's another question I'd be putting to them. Have you had your AMH levels checked recently? 

I know it worked before for you and I'm sure it will again but from personal experience for me I had to change something after cycle no 5 failed and I tried different protocols, changed clinics had more tests etc and decided to go with full immunes meds. I wish I'd changed my path years ago and not wasted so much money in the passed but you just get caught on the roller coaster road. 

I wish you tons of luck and maybe see if your clinic has a recurrent implantation screening programme. If you have good embryos or blasts then there really isn't any reason for them not implanting unless there is something else going on with sperm and then development from blasts xx


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## alnoora (Jun 13, 2012)

Hi Hbkmorris,

Thank you so much for your lovely reply! I'm sending big hugs back to you too  so sorry for your loss. You really have had a difficult journey. 
Thank you so much for the advice too. I have not had a scratch before that could be something to look in to. I have had my AMH levels checked and they are fine.
What further testing can we do for the sperm? we have only had a semen analysis is there something else we could look into? I haven't thought about looking in to it further?

Thanks again for the message I will definitely start looking in to what you have said below.

Goodluck to you for the future wishing you all the best xxx


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## RB76 (Jul 27, 2011)

Hi, sorry to hear about your bfn today.

I agree with HBKMorris, as your immunes were clear you need to be looking at implantation issues (scratch definitely a good thing to ask about) or also depending on what embryo quality you are getting, yes could be sperm issues, there is a test called DNA fragmentation which tells you more about sperm quality and its capacity to develop a healthy embryo.
What sort of embryo quality have you been getting on recent cycles and have you gone to blastocyst?


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## miamiamo (Aug 9, 2015)

Hi, I am also sorry about yr bfn. It is easy to say stay positive, but much harder to do that. I agree with RB76, probably you should investigate yr implantation issues and embryo quality. Consider eg  PGS NGS for yr next cycle, some info on it you will find at invictaclinics com/pre-implantation-genetic-diagnosis-pgdpgs-ngs/pgs-ngs-360-panel-24-chromosomes/ Good luck and do not give up xo



/links


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## Hbkmorris (Apr 7, 2010)

Hi, 

As the other ladies have agreed defiantly look into implantation.. I went to professor Quenby at CRM Coventry and she specialises in implantion failure and recurrent miscarriage as they have the same affect on ladies like us. Some immune tests are for main blood stream but her testing is a NK cell biopsy so tests the tissues which is where the embryos are implanting. 

DNA fragmention is another thing to look into.. Again my ex had low sperm count and only after moving clinics we were advised our best chance was to use donor sperm although we did make perfect embryos and blasts. 

Depending on the quality of the embryos/blasts you could also consider (once you've had further testing) is to look into using and embryoscope which is a digital incubator that videos and takes pictures of their development this will dwindle out the weak and hopefully give you the best to transfer but again you've got to get your uterine tissues right for implantion to take place. 

My only last bit of advise is to do what you can now.. GP and see a specialt in this field and then armed with results you can get meds if required to help you. You have a scratch the month before your treatment cycle and it can make a difference but I do feel you need some other backup afterwards. 

There's lots of things to do before considering another cycle but I promise you, you can beat this.. It's just going to cost you money and time. 

Give yourself sometime to investigate things, give yourself time to grieve and don't pressure yourself Hun... Next year all can be so different. God bless you. 

Merry Christams girls xx


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## cosmopolitan4112008 (Oct 18, 2013)

I wonder how thoroughly your immunes were checked because most of the time, they are the culprit. You should have your blood clotting, thyroid, HLA matches get checked. Sometimes, after the first child, the body turns against the embryos seeing them as intruders. I failed 5 times because of hla issue. The one who could help you with this in the UK is dr. Amin Gorgy, but the best one, who is really thorough is dr. Jeffrey Braverman, a reproductive immunologist. .Google them and see.
good luck, AlNoora. I hope you find light out of that darkness


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