# One or two embies



## Grace72 (Jul 14, 2011)

Hi ladies - hope i can dip into this forum. I am 40 this year and its my second cycle. We're one of the rare couples,  who's egg and sperm can not bond so we're doing ICSI this time. ALthough for my age they managed to retrieve 9 eggs only 1 fertilised so its a low fertilisation rate  . I"m not sure what will happen with ICSI but i'm now worrying on whether to put one embie or two . Taking my age , low fertilisation , into account, should i seriously look into having two put in?  My consultant first time said one, he has now moved on and the new consultant advised on 2! 

I assume IF i get a high fertilisation rate with ICSI  then I should only put 1 in?  I'd be interested to know what your clinics have advised on. I'm concerned that with twins the health of both may be compromised. Its happened to a few of my friends so now very unsure what to do as the clinic is not forthcoming with advice yet.

Hope you can help?

Grace


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## Bagpuss1972 (Jun 4, 2011)

I would go for 2.

In fact I'm so annoyed with HFEA regs, that if I am allowed one more IVF (due to my cancer diagnosis) I am seriously considering going to Spain just to get 3 put back in.  HFEA won't bend the rules one iota, even though I'll be 40 in July when HFEA then allow 3, but as it would be my last ever try and that's only if I'm allowed in April, I will self-cycle here in the UK and go abroad just for the embryo transfers.

Best of luck and I hope you get your baby (and safely).


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## MandyPandy (May 10, 2010)

I'd definitely go for 2 (I always have done).

My next cycle will be in Greece and if I have 3 to put back, I'll be putting back all 3.


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## Bagpuss1972 (Jun 4, 2011)

Mandy where are you going in Greece?  I contacted the Cyprus-Surrogacy clinic but they seem to be mega expensive just for egg collection and transfer.  Despite the fact I intend to self-cycle and start in UK, their charge seems to be almost the cost of a full IVF cycle.
Are you doing the full cycle in Greece or self-starting?
Thanks


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## Lil Elvis (Dec 31, 2009)

Hi Grace,

It's tough deciding whether to go for a singleton or twins. Would you want a sibling in the future? Would you be prepared for the IVF rollercoaster to try for a sibling? I know a twin pregnancy isn't easy, but you would be very, very closely monitored so there are actually very few likely problems. I had a twin pregnancy, but lost one at 9 weeks. I was scared out of my wits when I saw 2 heartbeats at 7+ weeks, but that was nothing to the devastation at 9 weeks when we were told that one had died in the previous 24 hours. If I had gone for a SET, perhaps the one we eventually lost would have have been the one transferred. We will never know, but I am so glad for the one we do have. Due to my age (and more so DH's) we will not be trying again, especially as we had DE and would have a different donor. I really wish that we had had the twins, but it wasn't to be. 

The idea of twins can be scary, but so very many ladies end up with a singleton, let alone the number who, like me, lose one later on.

It is a very personal decision, but I am glad that I went for 2.

Caroline xxx


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## Grace72 (Jul 14, 2011)

Thank you ladies - i am tempted by 2 but dont wish for the heartache of possibly losing one either.  Would love a sibling if i could cycle again but this depends if i have a frostie or not and the possibility of conceiving again through IVF when in 1-2 years time , when i'm 41-42.  Not sure of the success rate of a "snow baby" in 2 years time. 

Grace x


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Grace,

At your age the chances of twins are pretty low, but the chances of a failure much more likely.  With women of 40 plus using own eggs, there is a correlation between higher numbers of embryos transferred and higher live birth rate.

With this in mind, I think you need to transfer 2 for optimum chances of a live birth.  I assume these will be day 3 embryos which is all the more reason to transfer two.

This also assumes that you have had all relevant testing for your and DH to eliminate other causes of failure apart from age.  e.g. thyroid, sperm, uterine, clotting, infection and autoimmune issues.  These are really important to eliminate as the incidence of issues like this increase as we age.

Best of luck,
Daisy
x


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## MandyPandy (May 10, 2010)

Bagpuss1972 said:


> Mandy where are you going in Greece? I contacted the Cyprus-Surrogacy clinic but they seem to be mega expensive just for egg collection and transfer. Despite the fact I intend to self-cycle and start in UK, their charge seems to be almost the cost of a full IVF cycle.
> Are you doing the full cycle in Greece or self-starting?
> Thanks


Hey Hun

I'm heading out to Serum in Athens in the next couple of weeks. I'll be doing the full cycle with them - OE. It's 3000 euros for one cycle or 4000 for two (we're opting for the latter). On top of that the drugs are about 1500 - 2000 euros. As DH and I are going to take it as a holiday, we're writing off the cost of flights and accommodation (which in total works out at around 2000 euros). I also have a lot of immunes treatment that I need but the cost of that is greatly reduced over there.

My last cycle here was £15,000 (including immunes).

Hope that helps!

xxx


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## MandyPandy (May 10, 2010)

Grace72 said:


> Thank you ladies - i am tempted by 2 but dont wish for the heartache of possibly losing one either. Would love a sibling if i could cycle again but this depends if i have a frostie or not and the possibility of conceiving again through IVF when in 1-2 years time , when i'm 41-42. Not sure of the success rate of a "snow baby" in 2 years time.
> 
> Grace x


Much as I hate to say it, one of the main reasons the doctors allow us to put two back at our age, is because it is more likely than not that only one will make it. If it starts with twins, it is quite often the case that one will perish at some point and the doctors view it as it being better to end up with one than none. I'm afraid that's the harsh reality of it all - starting with twins allows a 'drop off rate' so that you can at least end up with one.

In terms of frosties, it is not as common as you'd think to have any suitable for freezing at the end of a cycle but if you are lucky enough to achieve that, remember that even if you are over 40 when you decide to go for an FET, the embryos will be frozen in time at the age they were when you had your cycle.


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## Irish Dee (Jan 30, 2008)

Hello ladies,

I am fortunate to be expecting a singleton.  I had 3 embryos put back at ARGC.  I will be 40 on Wednesday and my transfer took place in October, so 4 months before my 40th.

I asked Mr T at ARGC the chances of multiples and he said that it was much more likely that none would take rather than the 3.  

Best of luck with your decision.

Dee


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## Aenor (Jan 19, 2009)

It's a really difficult decision isn't it? I opted for one embryo but still had twins (identical twins, obviously!) I just want to sound a note of caution. Having identical twins is more likely if you're older than average and if you have IVF, so don't assume that 1 embryo = 1 baby and 2 embryos = 2 babies. I'm now very glad I didn't have a second embryo because I could have ended up with triplets! Also twin pregnancies can be very tough. Of the six couples in our twins antenatal group, all of us had some sort of major problems in pregnancy (though thankfully all the mummies and babies survived in the end). I'm not trying to scare you - and I certainly don't regret having my boys! - but just be aware of what can go wrong as well as what can go right.

Whatever you decide, GOOD LUCK!!!!


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## Bagpuss1972 (Jun 4, 2011)

Dee can I please ask how comes you had 3 transfers before the age of 40 please?  Just this week I asked CRGH if I could have 3 put back in May, even thought it will only be 2 months before my 40th and he said no.  He said even if he authorised it the lab would not allow 3, so I'm now having to travel abroad just to have 3 put back in.  Would be interested to know how you were able to get around this please.  
Many thanks


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## knickerbockerglory (Aug 10, 2011)

Hi Grace

Could i ask a question that relates back to what you said about low fertilisation rates? we have just had our first IVF and out of 9 eggs only 2 fertilised. we were really shocked and not prepared for this as everything you read tells you theres a 60-70% fertilisation rate. we are in the 2ww so havent really had a chance to speak to the hospital about why this has happened so if you could shed any light on this I'd be grateful?

as for the 1 or 2 debate, after a LOT of soul searching we decided to go for 2. in a nutshell we decided this because of my age, the fact that we dont have any children already and our consultant recommended 2 to us. 2 felt right to us and after tying ourself up in knots trying to decide rationally, we decided to do what *felt* right, which was 2.

good luck with whatever you decided

Nicxx


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## Grace72 (Jul 14, 2011)

Hi ladies thanks for your thoughts . Really appreciate it. 

Nic - i can only advice based on what our problem was given DH couldnt bond with my egg on IVF only .  Yes, only 1 did take out of the 9 but given the "unusual" problem , my hopes werent raised since the Consultant could only think that the egg had a genetic issue to allow the sperm in . I do not think you would have this problem if IVF was successful for you  , there are so many ladies on this forum who are pregnant with just the one fertilising even . Did the doctor mention why you may have had fertilisation rate?  My doctor mentioned to me , its a natural selection so not all our eggs and DH's sperm have the strong DNA to fertilise. So the ones you have are the strongest . Do keep positive during the 2ww and trust it will work . Its a tough 2 weeks (i know if it was hard for me too) . Good luck and keep me posted. 

Grace x


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## knickerbockerglory (Aug 10, 2011)

thanks Grace, we were in such a tizzy with everything going we just didnt ask the question at the time. I will definately hold on to what you said about the strongest ones being transfered, lets   that they stick. 

you are not wrong about the 2ww being hard, if someone had told me 2 months ago that dong nothing was harder than injecting yourself, I wouldnt have believed them! 

Nicxx


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## jules40:)x (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi all,

We had 3 put back as I was just over 40, they told us the chance of twins was less than 5% and the chance of success (BFP) was about 20% we are now expecting twins and couldn't be happier, we want a family and with time, and probably my egg quantity / quality reaching a stage where it starts falling off then we consider ourselves very lucky indeed although we still have a long way to go!

Good luck with whatever you decide xx


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## MJ1 (Aug 8, 2011)

Hi,
I had 2 put back in my previous two cycles and then three on my last cycle, still a BFN, so they don't always stick despite how many you put back. 
At ET doc advised me that if I was a risk taker to put two back, if not just one, so I opted for three as it was my last go, can't do this anymore.
Good luck I hope your dreams become reality.
MJ1 x


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## coweyes (Sep 4, 2008)

From my own experience each clinic do things slightly differently, yes there are guidelines but each clinic/consultant interpretates it differently, i guess this also depends of each individual case as well.


We are in a similar situation, i asked my new consultant on Wednesday if we had the choice of having two embryos put back and he said yes and that even though they would advise us it was our choice.  So far (at my old clinic) we were only allowed to have one put back.  I am still not sure and am aware that i would be lucky to have two good blastos to have put back.  We need pgd so the process is even more complicated, this will probably be our last go so as you can imagine its a very difficult decision.


I think its a very personal choice and one that you can only make with the best intentions, no one knows what the future holds.  So you can only do your best with the information you have at the time. xxxxxxxxxxx


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