# AF is on it's way 10 dpo? Do I need progesterone support?



## ♥Jovial♥ (Feb 25, 2007)

Hi All,

Would like to pick your brains because mine is giving up  

I am 10 days post IUI and   is rearing her ugly head - unlikely I'm going to get to pee on a stick  .  AF pains last night and today, usual period headache, I have started spotting so would expect full flow Wed ish - this is earlier than expected due Friday so thought I would start spotting wednesday.  Last month (first month on clomid) I started spotting very late Tuesday and day 1 was friday, so think clomid explains the early spotting.

Have had concerns about my leutal phase but couldn't be sure I i'd timed ovulation correctly as peeing on a stick only gives me lh surge.  But I thought it was around 11 days which could be a touch too short.  My day 21 bloods were borderline so clinic wasn't sure I ovulated at screening tests without meds.

I had my trigger shot day 13, only other med was clomid, (2 x 20mm follies) - assuming ovulation day 15 - I was peeing on sticks before trigger and had no sign of LH surge so sure I hadn't ov'd before then.  Spotting on day 25, so just 10 days after supposed ovulation.

Is it possible to ovulate but not produce enough progesterone to keep AF at bay?  Or could I not have ovulated?  Should I push for progesterone pesseries to try with next cycle?

I'd really appreciate any ideas!  

Thanks in advance
Jovi x


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## ♥Jovial♥ (Feb 25, 2007)

Well   for me  

Should I push for progesterone next time?  

JOvi x


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Jovi  

I've never had IUI so can't really advise but if you weren't prescribed progesterone this time then I'd certainly raise your concerns at your follow up appointment and request it for next time.

Have you ever had progesterone blood tested on a natural cycle ?  It is possible to have low progesterone levels but considering you had 2 good size follicles I'm surprised your progesterone would be low (but then I'm not medically qualified!)  Has this happened on a natural cycle ie have you noticed that you have a short luteal phase (from ovulation to AF) ?  A luteal phase can be seen as normal if it's between 10 - 17/18 days (bit of a myth that always 14 days).

The HCG injection you had to trigger ovulation is the same hormone as released from implanted embryo.  This hormone is what then triggers your ovaries to keep producing progesterone as this is what sustains womb lining and early pregnancy until placenta takes over.  In theory, the HCG injection should play a similar role in that it "tricks" your body into thinking it's pregnant so producing the progesterone.

Has AF actually arrived or is it that you've just tested BFN ?  If AF hasn't actually arrived then you could just be testing too early.  If you're 11dpo today and have only had a little bit of spotting but no actual full flow bleed then there's a chance that it's implantation....or just a bit of bleeding.  Lots of women get a bit of bleeding/spotting in early pregnancy...in fact some women get proper bleeds and still the pregnancy is fine.

Not sure if I've helped but if it's a definite AF then do discuss extra progesterone for your next IUI  ...if it's no AF but testing BFN then test again in few days time.  

Take care
Natasha xx


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## ♥Jovial♥ (Feb 25, 2007)

Minxy thank you  

My progresterone has been low when it was monitored with no drugs - when I go next time I will ask for the levels. One was done on day 21 which I am sure was too early and the others 8 & 9 days after I detected surge.  They were 'a bit low'.  I was monitoring my cycles with the clearblue monitor and cheap pee sticks before any treatment for 9 months and they were always consistant at picking up my surge - I counted my LP day 1 from the following day and the majority of cycles I would start bleeding day 10 /11 - a few day 12's.  If actual ovulation was 36 hours after surge then it could mean a day less.  

I've not pee'd on a stick yet   as OTD is supposed to be Saturday but heavy spotting now and expecting to be in full flow by this evening.

Is progesterone generally the solution for short leutal phase?  Sorry for all the questions.  I'm not a professional but after reading through FF I've just got a hunch it's a progesterone thing - I was hoping you would read my post   I've come accross many of your posts and you always explain thing lovely.

My main concern is 10 days doesn't really give time for implantation - definately going to push for progesterone and will ask my GP do do day 21 bloods again - thinking about it should I do this 9 days after trigger shot or would a trigger shot give a false reading?  I feel like doing a mock cycle with just the drugs and no insemination to get my levels without spending a lot of money on treatment when I'm not confident we're getting this right.  

As a side note I ovulate quite late in my cycle when on no drugs, typically I would pick up my surge day 18/19/20, and at both treatments have been slower growing than the clinic would expect - they would normally trigger day 11 baste day 13 - I was trigger day 13 baste day 15.  Don't know if late ovulation could be related to a short LP.

Many thanks, you're a star!
Jovi x


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Obviously I have no medical experience but I'm really surprised that if you have known problems with low progesterone levels why you weren't prescribed additional progesterone support through the 2ww...seems strange to me but like I say, I've never had IUI so not that clued up it.

Generally if you have short luteal phase then progesterone can help.  Progesterone peaks at 7dpo and if no fertilisation of egg and subsequent implantation then the corpus luteum (which produces progesterone) breaks down, so womb lining breaks down and starts shedding...by having the extra support this should help prevent this happening.

I would ask for another progesterone blood test done at 7dpo to check that you're ovulating and also see what the level is.  Sometimes even if you ovulate, if the follicle is too small when it ruptures then the egg inside may be too immature and the corpus luteum too small so doesn't produce a good level of progesterone...but if your follies were 20mm then that's a good size so I'm a bit perplexed.   If you can get your progesterone tested during an IUI cycle that may be helpful too....I've not had it tested during IVF but I've seen other ladies who do....and that's despite the HCG injection.

Do discuss it with your consultant though   ...and I would still test on your OTD as you just never know  

Take care...and good luck 
Natasha xx


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2009)

Hi Jovi   so sorry this is happening to you sweetie    

Definitely speak to your clinic next time about prog support, I have a history of low prog/short LP and because of this my consultant put me on prog pessaries for all 3 of my IUIs. They were all -ve as you know but my LP did increase by at least 3 days on each cycle. 

Big     again and take care my lovely,

She   xxx


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## ♥Jovial♥ (Feb 25, 2007)

Thanks Shemonkey - nice to know I'm thinking along the right lines!  Going to wait a month and get to the bottom of this before I try again, need to be confident I have a good chance of it working before I go spending more money, a month off isn't the end of the world and having these doubts only make it more stressful - not to mention wasting money!  And going to try to get bloods done again, I have a great GP so sure she will run bloods for me.

Sorry IUI didn't work out for you    - hoping you're a first time lucky with IVF!  I'll be joining you after my next IUI so will track you down  

Stay in touch
Love
Jovi x


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## ChoChoSan (Sep 29, 2008)

Hi Jovigirl,

Medical professionals don't all share the same opinions on luteal phase defects, I'm afraid...I have sat in front of a couple of consultants who have patronisingly assured me that ovulation takes place between CD12 and 14, despite months of temping and OPKs showing that I ovulate on CD17 or 18! The same goes for raising the issue of luteal phase defects...some people don't even bother registering that you have asked the question, even when your cycle is only 26 days long

My experience, anecdotal though it may be is that I ov CD17-18, and period on CD26...pretty short luteal phase. I have been ttc for over 3.5 years with two pgs ending in m/c.

I was supposed to have IUI last month, and was prescribed progesterone (due to m/c). My treatment was abandoned, but I went ahead with the progesterone anyway (disregarded the medics!). The outcome was that this month, I surged on CD12, so probably ov'ed on CD13-14 AND my womb lining was 9.2mm by CD11, so nice and bouncy and thick. Normally my lining is about 5mm by that date, and the medics keep sending me home for another day or so until it gets to 8mm, which normally does not happen until around CD 15!

I would push for progesterone, even if just based on the argument that its effectiveness can't be ruled out, and if it won't harm you, then why not?

I now wonder if my earlier m/cs could have been prevented by using progesterone - hope not, given that I raised LPD enough times!

Good luck


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## ♥Jovial♥ (Feb 25, 2007)

Thanks Chocho - sorry to hear about your m/c  

I had my IUI today and they have given me cycolgest - they are adamant it will make no difference but I've got it in my head it's worth a try!  And as you say it's not going cause any harm - I'll try anything even if it's a might help!  

Good luck with your next treatment


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Hi Jovi

Glad to hear they've agreed to prescribe you the progesterone...really hope this does the trick for you  

Good luck in your 2ww  
Take care
Natasha xx


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## ♥Jovial♥ (Feb 25, 2007)

Thanks Natasha - I see you have started stims      really hope this is the one for you!

Will look out for your news
Take care
Jovi x


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2009)

Yes good luck Natasha      xxx


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Thanks ladies   First stimms scan tomorrow so hopefully there's a few good follies in there 

Positive thoughts & sticky vibes to all    
Take care
Natasha xx


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