# Pincushion princesses. Multiple BFNs and implantation failure support thread



## K jade

Just thought id start a thread for us  RIF ladies. I know there’s a few of us out there. 

I think we all need a confidence boost (I know I do!) to keep the faith and share some info and ideas to help us get to the other side

KJ 
xx


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## Aley

Hi!

I know we were talking on different threads. 
Great idea to bring all together in one place. 
I currently go from being really low to being too excited and thinking I am going to do this till it happens...apparently there are women out there that had 20+ cycles! 
I am also a bit day dreaming about going again as we spend most of our savings on the 2 cycles +fet so we need some time to save. 
Planning to have a uterine biopsy and ERA test and do another fet. 
I am scared of how I will react if that will be a negative...

When are you planning another one? 


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## Carrie88

Great thread idea xx


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## Rosie11

Hi, yes great thread idea. I've just frozen 4 day 3 embryos while I decide whether to do another round and try to bank some more for PGS (don't really want to given £££), or to investigate my immunes (have thyroid issues) and uterus (big fibroids outside cavity). With no implantation ever, it's hard to know where to start! Or more accurately, where to invest the money...
Look forward to all your stories x


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## Little_dreamer

Hi ladies. I feel pretty early on the implantation failure journey- my clinic said they wouldn't look at doing further tests until I have had 4 top grade embryo failures. I've had 2 but managed to convince them to let me have a scratch on the NHS. 5 years or trying before that in the unexplained category. I'm booked in on the 2nd of June. Any experience and advice you can share? I'm pretty scared about the pain TBH


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## Northern

Great thread idea kjade, please can I join! Would be great to share some support and ideas. After 4 bfn's we are on the brink of moving to donor sperm, but I just don't think I'm there with it yet. Now going back to the thought of another full cycle but with whatever tweaks I can to make it work next time! Good luck to you all, and sorry you've all suffered so much so far, ivf is so cruel xx

PS little dreamer I think everyone finds the scratch a little different - I've had 3 and never any pain so try not to worry, the anticipation is worse than the actual thing! It's over in seconds and a bit like a smear test. Take a paracetamol beforehand and you should be fine x


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## K jade

Hi Everyone 
We have all bumped into one another on different threads and it's nice to have a specific place  be able to discuss the way forwards and have a good old grumble when you've faced so many setbacks. 
I started out on the NOA thread and I've been on various threads in the past, but nearly everyone has their baby now and some are even back for number 2! meanwhile I cant seem to get that elusive BFP 

its so hard know where to start as well. you don't know if its the seed, soil or both! and I know there's a few of us on here that didn't even think we had fertility issues and are doing IVF for other reasons. 

littledreamer well done for pushing for further tests . I think 4 top quality transfers is rather extreme if you ask me so you were right to get onto them.  sorry you find yourself in the unexplained category. that's where I've landed after getting past the original issue which was no sperm. it really is frustrating. I haven't had a scratch as such but I had a biopsy done on Monday which I believe is basically the same procedure. I'm not going to lie it was quite 'uncomfortable' to put it mildly. but it was over in 10 seconds. 

aley where are you thinking of getting your biopsy done? good idea on ERA I think that's something  people will be doing a lot more of in the future. 

rosie sorry your facing a number of issues. have you been on thyroid medication during  your cycles? from what I've read its best to try and get your TSH to under 2 before you do a cycle. if you have a helpful GP they may be able to run some level 1 tests for you. this could be a relatively inexpensive place to start and you may be able to identify  the problem. 

northern I know you posted recently about the difficult decision to use a donor. I know how tough that is having been there myself. I will say that once you get past it though you don t really look back. however hopefully you wont have to and will succeed with OS. 

afm im waiting on my uNK cell I had done at Quenbys place on Monday . I should be  starting a full ivf cycle then in august. not sure what i'm hoping for really. on one hand id like an issue to be identified so that I have something to work with. on the other no one likes to hear that they have an abnormal result...
just have to wait and see..

love to all
kj
xxx


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## Northern

Morning ladies,

I stumbled on an interesting blog yesterday which some of you might find helpful: [url http://drgeoffreysherivf.com/blog/ [/url]

There are lots of different headings and I found a good theory about egg maturity and issues with pcos and trigger dose, something I think has affected our cycles - I'm borderline pcos with millions of follicles but we've never had a full batch of mature eggs.

Kjade hope you get your biopsy results back soon. I know what you mean about half wanting to find a problem, I don't know which result is better really! I was gutted my hidden c came back clear! Daft isn't it 

Aley biopsy and era sound sensible places to start. I'd love to have era done but sadly we're so far down the road now that funds just don't permit it. Where are you planning to have it done?

Rosie good luck coming up with a plan, it's so hard to know where to start isn't it, and everything being so expensive doesn't help does it! Have you tried scratch/embryoglue etc in your cycles?

Happy weekend everyone xx

PS can't get the link to work on my kindle but if you copy and paste or search Dr Geoffrey Sher it should come up


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## Aley

Trying to catch up with everyone.

K jade, I understand the frustration of seeing other people move on with their life, having one or two kids while I still wait to even see a second line. Women around me seem to have no problem getting pregnant and I actually work with 3-4 expecting mothers that are having their 2nd or 4th! It's hard to say at least. I think I can face the physical part of ivf anytime but emotionally is just horrible.
I still have hope though! 
I will have my tests in my first clinic that's in Ireland but looking into options abroad as well.

Rosie, I am the same as you, not really knowing what to do. The last consultant we've seen suggested pgs but I want to explore the soil a bit more before moving on to the seed.

Little dreamer, I had a scratch on my last cycle. I felt uncomfortable but then I am one of those that don't like smears at all. The good thing is that is over quickly and it can help with implantation.

Northen, we too are considering 1. To change the donor sperm, that is not a big deal and we shpuld have done it sooner! and 2. To take my wife's eggs or womb... if the eggs are an idea we had in the beginning to switch to her as the carrying mother is a hard decision as I really want experience pregnancy and birth while she doesn't at all and on top of that she has a medical condition that can get worse after birth. Even thinking about that shows how desperate and scared we are. I think it's probably the same for you using donor sperm.
The ERA is indeed expensive but we already spend a car worth money and that price looks like nothing compared to it. 
Dr. Sher blog always pops up on my ******** page! Just like all the other millions of fertility clinic pages, mothers blogs, surrogacy and egg donation offers  read and heard few of his ideas.

Hope you all have a good weekend 

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## miamiamo

what about doing pgs ngs? I am not an expert, but articles that I have read say that the diagnosis is also recommended in cases of multiple pregnancy loss or implantation failure.


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## K jade

morning ladies. hope you all had a lovely weekend and a good dose of the sunshine. Back in work today (boo!)

northern , interesting article. I think I may sign up to MrSher , sounds like he knows useful stuff. PCOS is something ive always wandered whether I have. cause im a rocket responder, but its never been mentioned to me . first time for everything I guess !

Aley definatly definatly change donor. when I went for my review with my consultant the first thing she asked me was had I changed donor. as it happened I had, but for you, you never know. it really could be as simple as you not quite being the right match and a new one could make all the difference.

Miamoo thanks for the info about pgs, I know its mentioned quite a bit on here.

I have to be honest I really struggle with accepting PGS as a viable solution to unexplained implantation failure. the concern I have with it is that it is often suggested by Drs to young healthy women who have had numerous great quality blasts transferred. sometimes as many as 11 amazing looking blasts (have seen on here someone who had)
what PGS is suggesting is that a good proportion of those will be abnormal. so for example, for the woman who has had 11 embies transferred, by law of averages a fair few chromosomally normal embies will have already been put back. and not implanted. so I fail to understand how using PGS at that point is going to be of any help. inevitably both normal, and abnormal will have failed to implant. 
To me it seems like it would be of more use to use it as a preliminary IVF technique, not when someone reaches the point many of us on here have. 
Also , and my second point is, most IVF is done without PGS. so how do they know whether a so called PGS abnormal embie cannot implant and form a baby. after all, when someone had successful ivf no one then tests the baby and whether it is PGS normal?

I could _also_ understand why PGS would be of some use if we didn't have the technology of embryo freezing . say if the embryologist had the tough decision of picking the best embie to transfer and had to discard all the others because there was no way of storing them. In this case, yes, I defiantly could see how it could be a useful tool. but the fact of the matter is , in this day and age we have the opportunity to transfer most viable embies at some point. which to me, makes PGS seem even more pointless for an option for women with implantation failure.
am I making sense? or just rambling. (just rambling probably )
some people may totally disagree with me but for me i just don't buy it. i have also perhaps been influenced by Dr Beers book who basically says PGS is total rubbish for recurrent failure. so i appreciate I'm slightly biased.

be interesting to know what others think as im not saying my word is gospel, just personal opinion really.

on a different note has anyone experienced their AF arriving early after having a uterine biopsy or scratch. had my biopsy a week ago and AF is here already. 1 week early! is this normal?

KJ xxx


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## MrsC83

Hi ladies, 

Can I join you? 3 BFNs for me so far, one fresh and two FET. I'm in the unexplained category. Really good idea to bring us all together. 

K jade, you were really helpful to me on another thread about difficult transfers, I'm glad you had your biopsy and hope it brings you some answers. 

I'm currently waiting for an appointment in a couple of weeks to plan my next round - I'm in the lucky position of having 6 frosties but after 2 very difficult transfers I'm asking for a sedation under transfer as prof brosens in Coventry thinks that may be my issue. 

Lots of love and positive thoughts to you all 
Xxx


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## Aley

K Jade, I understand your reasoning. 
For me, to be told I need pgs it was a hard. I am not against but I refuse to think that's why it didn't work. In  a way, it will be easier, we find out which blastocyst is normal, we transfer it and 9 months later, boom! a child!
In real life, sometimes even transferring a normal blastocyst will not lead to a pregnancy or a birth. 
I keep thinking out of all 5 embryos that I had transferred one should have been normal and even if they were all abnormal, it's known that an abnormal embryo can implant and later lead to a miscarriage, in my case was never the case, I never had implantation. 
Also pgs is more diagnostic than anything, it will not sort out the problem, if indeed I have crap eggs then the solution is donor eggs but...but, I really don't think that's my issue.
I plan to do karyotyping as well, it's a blood test, not very expensive, if it shows an issue I said I will go for pgs, if not, I won't. 
I will rather keep on going with own eggs for 2 more cycles.

Regarding the af after biopsy/scratch my period was actually late, 2 days late but we all react differently and I wouldn't worry.  When will you know the result? 

MrC, good luck! 6 frosties is awesome and fets are easier than doing a full cycle. Keep your faith.


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## K jade

aley I completely agree. chromosomally abnormal ones can implant, even if they don't progress and lead to a mc, so for me its just not a valid explanation for complete implantation failure.
ive heard about karyotyping, but know very  little about it... is it worth doing? what could it tell me? I would have thought at your age then it would be very unlikely you have rubbish eggs. there are women on here trying with their own eggs post 45, and succeeding! 

I have recently arranged to have a complete thyroid test as my thyroid function result was a bit odd, so id like to look at it in a bit more depth and see if that throws up any answers. 
I should expect my biopsy result in about 3 weeks. 

MrC83 hello! yes we have spoken before. I hope you managed to get your consultant to agree to sedation , that sounds like the way forward for difficult transfers. 
as it happened when I went to see Quneby I warned them about my 'bendy' cervix and how sometimes it was difficult to negotiate, but they had absolutely no problems! whereas on other occasions Drs have had a nightmare . so it defiantly varies with me
kj
xx


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## Carrie88

I'm all for PGS but only because I'm on a pgd and pgs support group and all the Americans on there do pgs and the majority have first time success. I know someone locally who had 6 failed transfers, did pgs testing on 10 embryos, 2 came back normal and she's now pregnant. If I wasn't on the pgd group I wouldn't be as for it as it's quite uncommon in the uk but I've seen the success with it. 
If you have pgs tested embryos and it fails you know the problem is your womb so right now I don't know if my failures are due to the embryo or my womb.
I know it was heavily criticised on the BBC panorama programme but I would have pgs if my clinic did it.

Tests we've had done in case anyone wants to know what to do next:

Full Chicago tests - NKC, mthr, blood clotting, cytokines etc 
NKC biopsy 
Karotype test 
Hidden c test 
Lad and dq alpha test 
KIR test 
PAIP test 

And I have a consultation booked for this Friday in London to have the era test. 
After this there are no more tests to have and we would of spent £6000 just on testing, Eeek! 


Kjade - good luck with your NKC biopsy and thyroid test. Did your clinic not test your thyroid? 

Mrs C83 - sorry to hear about your bfns - good luck with your plan for the next round. Have you got questions to ask your clinic? 

Little dreamer - I believe the scratch is like the NKC biopsy and yes it really really hurt me but only for a few seconds - take strong painkillers and you'll be fine 

Everyone else hiiiiiii


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## K jade

Carrie how did Friday go hun? Hope u found the appointment useful.
Regarding  my Thyroid my clinic did test it and deemed it to be fine. But I feel my free t4 is much to low. It's basically borderline even in normal terms, so I would imagine totally out of range in fertility terms. Strangely my TSH is absolutely fine at 1.3.
So I'm getting my thyroid anti bodies done to completely rule out any odd goings on on that front. I'm possibly being ott but u know how it is as a BFNer .. U end up being  miss marple lol

Hope everyone else is ok and had a wonderful bank holiday weekend
Xx


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## Carrie88

Hey kjade 

It went ok, although I had a nightmare day (forgot my purse, lost my return ticket, train was delayed home, husband had to buy me a ticket and send it to me (£82) and then cos the train was delayed they weren't even checking bloody tickets!! 

But it went fine - he agreed the era test would be a good idea as I've had 4 transfers and no implantation yet - not a chemical or miscarriage. 

He said I obviously know my stuff and he's trying to rack his brains but he can't think of any other tests to do I've covered everything. 

So starting my FET meds on cd1 for the era. This is our last test. 

Hmm does t4 affect fertility? I know my clinic just focuses on the tsh level? 
I defo don't think you're being OtT at all, you need to eliminate everything don't you! 

Hey we've sent our period blood off to Greece nothing is too ott for us  xx


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## K jade

oh bless u. that does sound like a nightmare. and for them not to even check tickets when you've spent all that money is just an insult. 

from what I understand TSH is basically an indicator of free T4. so if your TSH is high it is because your body is struggling to produce free T4. its kind of the same as  how FSH works egg production. higher the FSH means the more your body struggles to make follicles.  strangely my TSH is low at 1.3.  but then my free t4 is also low, so whilst my body may be struggling to produce free T4 my thyroid isn't even working hard to try and rectify that. if that makes sense. I find that strange and it does seem like an avenue worth perusing. in terms of how it affects fertility that im not particular clear on. I believe it goes along the lines of the fact that the baby doesn't have its own thyroid until much later in pregnancy, therefore it relies on yours. that can mean that a malfunctioning one will greatly affect the developing embie. 

glad it went well. so how does the ERA work? do you have to do a mock cycle then they take a sample for analysis when you would have ordinarily  had transfer? 

haha I know. you know you've had an exciting life when you've sent your menstrual blood on holiday to Greece!
kj
xxx


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## fruitbowl

Hello all,

I'm reading this thread with interest as I just had a fresh double 5 day embryo transfer fail.

The actual transfer was quick with no issues, but the next day I had excruciating cramping and contractions, which I managed to get under control with codeine and acupuncture, although I felt like  I'd been punched in the stomach for the next three days, and was uncomfortable and crampy.

Day 5pt I started to bleed bright red blood and clots very heavily, and a scan day 6pt confirmed that it wasn't a period, and my lining was thick and intact. Later that day I was admitted to hospital as the pain and bleeding was too much, and this has continued.

I think the reason for the failure was uterine contractions, and I wondered if anyone else had any experience of this? My consultant confirmed this is a rare reaction, but didn't really suggest anything else to help. 

Doing a litle internet research, it seems that US clinics give valium and buscopan for a few days around transfer to keep the uterus calm, but I haven't come across this being done in the UK.

Any info/experiences/suggestions gratefully received!


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## fruitbowl

Also, just in case this is useful, a thread from Reddit on implantation failure:


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/infertility/comments/62j7o8


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## K jade

really sorry to hear that fruitbowl. 

yes uterine contractions have been mentioned to me at my follow up appointment after my last bfn. Drs think it may be an issue for me therefore I'm going to have my next transfer under sedation. but I have also heard of buscopan and vallium being used too. 
can you ask your consultant about sedation? I think this is widely used in this situation . perhaps lay it on thick and talk about how uncomfortable and painful u find transfers. they should agree to it
xx


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## fruitbowl

Thanks K jade, that's a good suggestion, I'll ask about that. 

It's so frustrating as it seems to be such a small problem, but it creates such a big impact x


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## Carrie88

Fruitbowl - I've never heard that, sorry. I hope you get it sorted by next transfer though x

Kjade - ahh that makes sense. What's your next step? Yes that's exactly the era test is. Mock transfer and then a womb sample taken.

We've had our results back from Dr G.

My re tested th1:th2 cytokines are fine.

KIR - I'm missing all 3 receptors so I need a neupogen treatment 

PAIP - problem came back with that so he wants me on metformin 

LAD and DQ alpha - me and hubby are a 001 match so we need LIT therapy.


I don't understand any of it so I've got a lot to learn xx


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## Carrie88

Fruitbowl - I've never heard that, sorry. I hope you get it sorted by next transfer though x

Kjade - ahh that makes sense. What's your next step? Yes that's exactly the era test is. Mock transfer and then a womb sample taken.

We've had our results back from Dr G.

My re tested th1:th2 cytokines are fine.

KIR - I'm missing all 3 receptors so I need a neupogen treatment 

PAIP - problem came back with that so he wants me on metformin 

LAD and DQ alpha - me and hubby are a 001 match so we need LIT therapy.


I don't understand any of it so I've got a lot to learn xx


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## K jade

fruitbowl this thread may be of interest to you
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=359562.0

carrie I'm not exactly sure what kir receptors are myself although I see them mentioned quite a lot on here. however I know that neupogen is used when they are missing and I have heard very good things about it. 
looks like your making headway and Dr G has cracked a few nuts there for you.
lots of people on here never see a bfp until they go to Dr G as he is just so good at pinpointing exactly what's wrong and putting it right.

me I have my treatment planning appointment on the 22nd june. 
then I can get going on my cycle after that. however things still depend on my NK cell biopsy result and whether I have thyroid anti bodies, so will have to play by ear. 
I've also read 'it starts with the egg'. literally read the whole book in 2 days (I know how sad am I ) I found it really interesting 
ive been following the advice in there in the hope that this cycle yields some better quality embies and more of them. more embies to freeze means more cracks at the whip, and ive a feeling I will need as many as I can get!


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## fruitbowl

Thanks Kjade.

Am hoping buscopan and sedation will help. Will also look into hypnotherapy as well.

I'm not a sciencey person but I found the following interesting reading: https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/20/1/170/671591/Minimizing-embryo-expulsion-after-embryo-transfer

Really hoping that it's something mechanical with my uterus rather than immunes, as it seems so complex and overwhelming... xx


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## MrsC83

Hi ladies

Well I had my follow up meeting today and feeling quite pleased. The dr has agreed to do the transfer under sedation, with a low dose of steroids. I'm also going to have another hysteroscopy, hopefully this month, but this time under general anaesthetic so they can dilate my cervix further (yikes!!). 

I mentioned we have a holiday booked in September and he suggested an antagonist short protocol instead. I've never had that suggested before, anyone have any experience of it? 

I'm pretty happy trying all of that on the next cycle before looking into further testing I think. 

Xxxx


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## K jade

fruitbowl I will have a read of that. 
I agree Immunes is a blxxdy minefield. I have learnt so much over the past few months. such a controversial area as well with so many dismissing it as nonsense which doesn't make our lives easier  when we just want the facts. 

MrsC im actually very ignorant about protocols and don't know much about the different ones or what they are for. I've only ever done short one myself , I know there's short, long, antagonist, follicular , flare, oestrogen priming. but what they all do is not something I know a lot about. I should read up on it really. 
great that your follow up went well and that they are going to go ahead with sedation! I think that will really help 
xx


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## fruitbowl

That's good news Mrs C.

I'm convinced that there is an step between implantation failure and jumping to immunes which isn't being explored. It occurred to me that the bleeding I had before the OTD started on the same day I would have got my period, so progesterone wasn't holding off my period. A bit more googling around progesterone, and it turns out there is something called progesterone resistance which is common in women with endo, which means that the levels aren't right, and it can mean there are issues with the luteal phase (ie you have a slightly shorter cycle which may not be long enough to allow implantation ), for which the herb agnus castus can help to balance the progesterone deficiency. Another possibility seems be the use of Pregnyl rather than Cyclogest or Lubion, as this stimulates the production of progesterone rather than providing synthetic progesterone, which may not work in such cases. Progesterone supplements always make me bleed, so I'm wondering if this would still be the case if my body is producing natural progesterone - I think not.

Apparently 750mg of vit C a day can also help the body produce progesterone. 

I'm going to discuss this with the consultant when I have my follow up, so no idea what the current medical view is, but I don't think it will do any harm to start, and posted this in case it's useful to anyone.


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## Aley

Hi girls,

Hope you're all ok.

K jade, maybe you said it already and I missed it but do you have the results of your uNK yet?

Carrie, if you agree with PGS will you have it done? I guess it makes sense since you're going with PGD route. To be honest, bewteen NK cells, all the other tests regarding immunes and PGS, the later one has more sense and more of an evidence.

fruitbowl, sorry about your cycle but I think you're far from recurrent implantation failure. First cycle to fail is not uncommon (I know that doesn't bring any comfort and it's not something that anyone wants to hear) and from what you're saying there might be a reason why it failed, bleeding before testng day as you said could be an indication of progesterone not being enough. Talk to your clinic about it and please don't think that because the first one failed you have a serious issue.

As for my sad self, I am far from being even ok. I had to cancel the biopsy because of financial reasons and who knows when we'll get that done. I am just so fed up with this. 
I don't know if it's just me being emotionally unstable or it's normal. I still didn't have a meeting with my doctor regarding my last cycle, oopsie! I just don't know what to ask. Until a few days ago I was convinced to have the biopsy but now,maybe because I am poor, keep thinking that  it's just another way of throwing money away, I remember I was talking with my dr before and she didn't believe it, the other dr from the other clinic didn't believe in it. I don't want to put anyone off their plan, maybe some of you can actually direct me better as I am so confused and tired of this.
To immune or not to immune?


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## Carrie88

Aley - unfortunately guys don't do pgs which is so bloody stupid seen as they're doing pgd. We asked to pay for it as an add on and we couldn't, it's not even an option. We still have 4 embryos frozen and can't move them to have them tested as it's too much trauma for the embryo. I've had 2 different consultants though tell me it's not bad luck as I've had 5 embryos fail to implant and I'm under 30.
If these 4 fail we'll be self funding and will opt to do pgs and pgd xx

Awww what tat have you had to cancel? Which biopsy? 

MrsC - glad your follow up went well. I don't know what an antagonist short protocol is, sorryyy xx 

Fruitbowl - sounds like you could be getting some answers and I defo think your progesterone info makes sense, best of luck xx

Kjade - hope that app goes well and I've heard lots of good things about that book so hopefully it will get you lots of good eggs xx 




I've started my antibiotics today for ureaplasma. Husband has too.
I've also started prep for the era test - started oestrogen today. 
And I'm gonna book in to start our LIT therapy once the era is over with xx


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## K jade

fruitbowl that's really interesting. I know that there are quite a few women who don't respond to artificial  oestrogen , so it could well be true that there are others who don't respond to artificial progesterone. I have heard that vitamin B6 and B12 are the best for progesterone production. but Vitamin C is also good to take as an antioxidant for egg quality. I have tried angus cactus as my cycles were getting shorter and shorter. it defiantly helped in lengthening them. im currently taking macca everyday. its also supposed to help with hormone balancing. but to be honest ive got  a bit addicted to macca banana and  peanut butter smoothies! 


sounds like its all go for you carrie,  do you need to travel to London for the LIT or can you have it done more local?

aley bless u. I know exactly how you feel. the financial implications of this process are overwhelming in itself, not to mention trying to make decisions about what to test for. and on top of that every doctor giving  you his 2 cents about what the problem could be and what he thinks is snake oil. its no wander we go round in circles and have sleepless nights about the whole thing!
i decided to go for the biopsy mainly because i had been offered prednislone anyway for my next cycle. now I know that taking it when not needed can do more harm that good. so it made sense to have my NK cells tested. i also felt that getting uterine ones done as opposed to blood ones at this time was a better bet. but that's a personal decision.  luckily my NHS consultant thought it would be a good idea too. 
i thought having the biopsy  in addition to the serum hidden infection tests as well as a few tests such as clotting and thyroid anti bodies  was a good place to start. i have staggered payments using the credit card.  if my  results come back normal ( up till now they have) I may well not peruse any more immune testing.
of course many people go the whole hog with Dr Gorgy who leaves no stone unturned, but he is pricey. 

its very difficult i know, and if money was no object we would all have a much easier time. i think the best thing to do is work out what you think will be important to you and prioritise those tests. But of course lots of people  who cannot or don't want to spend the money on testing just go for empirical immune treatment where you include immune drugs in your protocol regardless , and this does work for many so maybe something to consider?
xxx


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## Carrie88

Yeah we need to travel to London, there's only Gorgy who does LIT in the uk

I've just booked my train tickets from Liverpool to London ready for my era test, got a lining scan on the 15th and 20th xx


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## Aley

Wrote a long post just to delete it by mistake, pff!

Anyway, so Carrie I am curious, what did your consultants say about failures since they don't think is bad luck. Are they nhs consultants? 
My consultants said it is either bad luck or aneuploidy, also one of them was promoting pgs and as a side note I was 29 when cycled so I guess young in IVF field. 
My doctor from the clinic said she suggested doing the era and uNK, the biopsy that I just cancelled, but I know her words after we had the meeting was 'it was not the right embryo.' I was the one suggesting doing the biopsy and she just went with it... a bit disappointing if you ask me.

K jade, a uterine biopsy is what I wanted and that's cheap, relative but I also added era test and that's expensive. Now with ERA test, that's a new thing and my gut feeling is that no one really knows what's the deal with it. For example my doctor said she will do the biopsy once but from what I read if they biopsy shows a displaced implantation window the test will need to be repeated. 
IVF is expensive and draining and if doesn't work it really messes your life, how it did with me and I am sure you'll all agree. 
Empirical treatments could be, as in intralipids that are really harmless from what I know but yet again, another empirical just in case. I had endometrial scratch and embryo glue on my last cycle and that didn't do anything different although the studies were so positive about them improving implantation. 
Maybe they were all the wrong embryo or there was one that was normal and I was unlucky...with my life experience that wouldn't even be not heard of 
Also I was reading a study at some point saying that in a double transfer if one was normal and one abnormal then the abnormal one can cause the good one to not implant. I had double transfer twice. On the other hand many have double transfer and end up with singletons. 
Another thing I wanted to say is that one of the doctors I've seen said that the immune issues are explained in people that already have a known immune disorder as opposed to a healthy individual that has no issues and that does make sense but yet again, so many unknowns. 
That's it ramble over. Chat to you soon girls, don't consider myself out completely yet.

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## K jade

Aley I think I've seen that study too somewhere. Which gives me second thoughts about having a double transfer next time. But I think ill still give it a go. After all all my SETs have been bfn. And I so want twins. Which I know sounds rather deluded of me  
That's interesting. Do u mean that an autoimmune issue can mean your more likely to have immune issues with regards to your fertility?
Cause that's what I always suspected which makes me think that , for me, doing immune testing is probably a red herring. 

Just had my blood taken for my Thyroid anti bodies. Results should be in next week along with my unk cells. So fingers crossed im  closer to finally getting some answers. hopefully this time next week things will be a lot clearer for me and I'll know what I'm dealing with xx


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## Carrie88

Aley - the two that said that we're private consultants. The NHS at guys is saying it's bad luck and we should start looking for a surrogate :/ xx


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## Aley

K jade, that was what one of the consultants suggested but look at it this way, my sister has an autoimmune condition and she managed to get pregnant without a pill of steroid and being blissfully ignorant of all this ivf/immune cr*p. Natural pregnancy, not straight away though but no surprise there considering her thyroid levels were all over the place and she has a bicornuate uterus. 
I just wish things to be so easy to just take some prednisolone and boom, pregnant 

I hope your results will bring some light, at this stage I think you actually want to find out there is a problem that can be fixed.

Carrie, I bet you wanted to punch them after they said you should start looking for a surrogate. Although works for some, I would have found that quite harsh and not something that I want to hear yet. 
I think it's up to the woman to decide how many goes she should have before moving on. I remember reading once on a clinic website that, well if doesn't work after 3 times your doctor will sit down to you and explain that for you ivf doesn't work and you need to find other ways...that just shocked me. Wow! 
Probably some will give up and that's absolutely fine but we're not all the same and some will want to go on, why would you say something like that. Plus new studies showed that success rates go up after 6 tries, some after 9 tries, number 3 is not so magic anymore. Btw, am I the only one finding that saying 3rd time lucky really annoying?

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## Carrie88

I didn't I couldn't stop crying  
This was a follow up over the phone as well as my clinic is in London and I live in Liverpool.
We don't even have any problems as we're only doing pgd to screen out a genetic comdition.
I knew we'd exhausted all NHS options but I didn't expect them to say that.
Thanks lovely your words are absolutely spot on. 
Is it really? 6 times? Kjade didn't you say this the other day to me in a private message? The Coventry guy said that to you didn't he? 
Haaaa no it's not just you! I also found that annoying xx


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## K jade

Aley said:


> K jade, that was what one of the consultants suggested but look at it this way, my sister has an autoimmune condition and she managed to get pregnant without a pill of steroid and being blissfully ignorant of all this ivf/immune cr*p


this sounds identical to my friend. she is morbidly obese, auto immune galore, with a sky high thyroid. she did take two years but still managed it naturally. so it has defiantly made me question what the hell is wrong with me if she has managed it and I haven't.

Carrie yes there was recently some research that said that 6 fresh attempts are what's needed to give yourself a fair chance. this was also suggested to me by Mr Brosens who said that often women with absolutely zilch wrong with them took numerous attempts and this may be due to how they have completely underestimated the complexity of the endometrium. he basically said it is an ever changing tissue. unlike no other in the body. implantation depends on getting exactly the right balance of stem/cells and NK cells along with the perfect embryo. 
of course those who TTC naturally have a monthly opportunity to have this happen. those of us dependent on ivf have less opportunity so things take longer and are more expensive

xx


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## K jade

well everything's come back
thyroid anti bodies and Unk cells
totally NORMAL
uNK cells were 2.02%. anything below 5 is within normal limits. 
This is so frustrating  

the only thing I can think of is that my inflammation is in fact TOO low and that's what the poblemo is?!


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## Aley

K jade, I would take it as a good thing. I know is frustrating and you actually want something to be wrong but if it's not then accept that it might be still bad luck. If I was you I would give my all to the new cycle, eat healthy, no alcohol, take supplements and you'll get that good batch we're all hoping for and get your baby and future siblings from it. Even bad luck comes into statistics and it's not all 100%


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## Northern

Oh KJade it's frustrating isn't it, still no answers!  Aley is right though it's a good thing and one less thing for you to be dealing with in your next cycle.  You might have mentioned but can you remind me where you had the tests done and how easy was it? 

I don't know what to suggest for you next, just hoping that in the roulette that is ivf all our luck changes and we're on the winning side for once! 

Sorry been a bit quiet on here, had a manic couple of weeks but have been following when I can. 

Carrie hope all goes well with your lining scan tomorrow and your ERA - that's one I'd like to have done really but we just don't have the funds for it.  Will be interested to see if it shows anything up for you. 
X


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## K jade

aley I think your right. im wandering if my number just hasn't been called yet. 
however I do think low inflammation may be posing an issue perhaps, but im really hoping that the scratch will help with this. I haven't had one  before. 

northern I went to Coventry to Professor Quenby but saw her colleague prof brosens. the two of them run the implantation research clinic at Cov university hospital. the money you pay towards the biopsy goes back into the research unlike private clinics. 
yes very easy to arrange if you have a normalish  cycle. however ive heard others  who don't ovulate having difficulty arranging it as you need to contact them when you have a positive OPK and they book you in 7 days later. 
the test is exactly the same as a endo scratch. Mr Brosens or Ms Quenby will also see you for a consultation  as well and have a chat about your history and give you their tupance worth which I found really helpful. 

carrie good luck for tomorrow, keep us posted 

xx


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## Carrie88

Oh kjade I'm flumoxed. You're right though, it could just be very bad luck for you. 

Hysterscopy? 
Sperm DNA fragmentation? 
Mthr? 
KIR? 
Lad? 
Dq alpha? 
Era test? 

They're the only few more tests for you I can think of? 

Thanks ladies will let you know how I get on xx


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## K jade

thanks hun
sperm dna frag and dq alpha wont apply as we used donor and changed twice . 
Mthfr call me absolutely dumb but would that have been tested for as part of my thrombophilia screening? is it to do with clotting?
KIR might be the next thing to look into yes... 
hysto haven't done no. perhaps worth a try

ah best of luck , hope it yields some very fixable solutions  for you
xx


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## Carrie88

Ahh you're right yes sperm DNA and dq alpha wouldn't apply. 
I don't think so? MTHFR is to do with folate acid and your enzymes and how you process folic acid. 

Hmm I would suggest maybe a hysterscopy then, you may have polyps or fibroids or septum that's preventing implantation? Xx


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## K jade

yeh I think hysto  will be next on my list tbh
but id really like to  do it in Greece as I hear that the ones done at Serum are far superior to the ones done here. getting DH to agree to that is going to be near on impossible however as he resents the money we've spent already. even though all our tx has been NHS!

how did yesterday go?
xxx


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## Carrie88

Yes I've heard serum is the best at those.
I also tried to convince DH to go over there to do one but he wasn't having any of it :/
I said we could tie it in and have a small holiday!! 

Yesterday went surprisingly well.
My lining after 10 days of fet meds was 8.6mm.
I've had 4 transfers and it's never been that thick, not even after 19 days of being on the meds.
So I'm all good to go for the era - start my progesterone on Wednesday night and I do the biopsy on Monday 26th June xx


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## K jade

oh that's brilliant! so the  protocol you did for this mock cycle, could you maybe repeat it  exactly when you do your next transfer?
it seems like something worked well there
xxx


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## Carrie88

It's the same protocol, which is mental!! 
The era has to be the exact same protocol as what you'd transfer.
Except I was scanned with city on day 10 and guys don't normally scan me till day 18 xx


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## K jade

seriously?! have u done anything different diet wise?
x


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## Carrie88

I am serious lol.
I sat there so confused. Nope nothing different diet wise, I even said to him normally I drink litres of Pom juice and Brazil nuts and give up caffiene. 
I haven't bothered with any of that this time cos it's a fake transfer.

Only difference is I started acupuncture about a month ago? Xx


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## K jade

it must be the acupuncture. I hear its good for lining issues
defo stick with it for next transfer sounds like it works well for you 
maybe give the pom juice a miss too as I have heard mixed reviews about it myself xx


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## Northern

I could be wrong but doesn't lining start to compact around transfer time?  I seem to remember mine being really thick earlier on and then not as thick at transfer but they said they were more concerned to see it trilaminar by then, and then it starts to break down after that before your period.  I could be wrong though!
Could also be the acupuncture, I know a lot of people find it good to help with lining.  Sounds like it's all going well Carrie   x


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## Carrie88

Thanks kjade. I think I will. I only started going for help with my periods xx 

Northern - see I thought I read something about that too months ago but I can't find anything about that. Mine was trilaminar yesterday as well but it always has been. I've googled and can't find any info about the lining going thinner the longer you're on oestrogen  but I'm sure I've read it somewhere before xx


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## K jade

I've also read that lining can compact as soon as you start producing progesterone as well. 

however its  confusing as other sources say your lining grows 1-2mm per day and continues to thicken till the end of your cycle. but then that would mean by the time AF comes your lining is about 28mm thick! 
I must admit I think eve got confused somewhere along the line regarding lining  LOL


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## K jade

hi ladies, hope everyone is OK and enjoyed the heatwave. 

had my treatment planning appointment yesterday so Im all set to go (again!) in a couple of weeks. 
starting with scratch. 
this time I'm changing protocol too, so will be doing 'antagonist'. i'm having transfer sedation too and im not sure how I will cope with 2 lots of sedation in 1 weeks as it always makes me so sick. never mind all in a good cause. 
they are also dithering on whether to give me a very  low dose of steroids regardless of my NKs being normal, as they thinks its unlikely to do any harm and may just make all the difference. but they are going to confirm that to me once they have a think on it. 

Aley thanks for your reply on my other post. sorry to hear you have the same thing. it defiantly sounds like all this messing about we do to ourselves is the culprit. 
how are you? have you come to any decisions?

hope everyone else is OK. 
kjxxx


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## Northern

Hi Kjade, 

All sounds like it's coming together which is good   I get a bit muddled, which one is antagonist, is that short or long protocol or is it to do with the stim meds you're on?  I've always done short protocol as meant to be slightly better for OHSS risk I think, but sometimes wonder if long with lower meds might be worth a try.  I don't even know what to ask for anymore, there are too many options! 

I think low dose steroids can't do any harm - I had them on my FET cycle and I still feel that's the closest we've ever got to a positive (just gut feeling) so may ask for them again.  Urgh I feel for you with the 2 sedations, it's not something I enjoy either. 

The heatwave has well and truly ended up here, we're back to more familiar wet and windy weather!  
Xx


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## K jade

Antag is basically when you start with the stims to get your ovaries revving, then add in the down reg drug 5 days later. 
yeh I had no idea what it was until yesterday either lol. ive only ever done short .  I get really confused with the protocols too. 
u cycling  again soon ?
xx


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## Northern

Ah right I thought it was something along those lines.  I may ask about it, sort of feel the need to try something else but don't know if I'm brave enough as this is the last time we can do a full fresh cycle.  No not cycling until November most likely, October at the earliest, which is feeling like a long wait!  Today we are waving off one of my colleagues on maternity leave - much as I love her I will be glad when she's gone and it's not in my face anymore....
X


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## Aley

Hi K jade

I absolutely loved the heatwave!  
Must be so exciting for you to go again, it's one of those weird feelings that you get with ivf, you know it might hurt but can't wait to do it again...well, for me at least.
Did the place where you had the biopsy made any suggestions?

I decided to go ahead with the transfer and have intralipids. I am going to delay the tests for now as there isn't much hope with our embryo anyway. I am having the intralipids for the sake of having something different, intralipids are quite safe, no significant side effects and studies, although small, showed that can help. I also found another study saying that intralipids act like immunomodulator, rather than immunosuppressant. It could be nothing, I could be throwing money out the window when I don't even have much but... 
I also asked to have a light anxiolitic on the day of transfer. I am actually still waiting on my doctor to comeback and say what are the thoughts about this, I doubt the clinic is going to say no anyway.
Hello to the other girls, Carrie, Northern hope you're well.

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## K jade

northern I do not blame you
I would also be glad to see the back of a preggers colleague. in the nicest possible way. luckily for me I work amongst a group of fertility challenged women. last pregnancy was 7 years ago in my team!
October/November isn't far off. its nice to have the summer off as well. you can let your hair down a bit and no doubt enjoy a glass of wine or 2. I noticed you are with a Czech clinic, are you happy with them? the prices seem very reasonable so Im wandering whether  its something to consider in the future.

Aley their only recommendation was no steroids. Dr Brosens basically hinted at my consultation that he doesn't  believe anything much to be wrong with me based on my medical history and its just a numbers game. we will see!
gosh you are good with reading your studies! I'm terrible with them and can never seem to follow them. not very scientifically minded me. that's brilliant that your going back for your embie. and trying intralipids. fingers crossed this is BFP time for you!


gosh I had a bit of a meltdown last night. 
I get like this abound this time of year, as it'll be coming up to another TTC anniversary (6 years this time!) where absolutely nothing has been achieved despite the great lengths dh and I have gone to. usually I can busy myself and try and be patient, but every so often it really gets you down
xxx


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## Northern

Kjade, I'm with you on the meltdown!  I got home from the maternity-send-off on Friday in a complete mess, just having kept a lid on my emotions for the last 5 months through her pregnancy.  Treatment anniversaries are hard - it's one of few times where you can't help but stand back and list off everything you've been through, which is always a surprising amount when you stop and think.  Urgh 6 years, you poor thing.  We're only on about 3 and a half and it's tough.  Big hugs to you   

Yes we're with Gennet in Prague.  We picked them initially because of cost - we need ICSI with our treatment which is about an extra £1000 in the UK on top of already more expensive prices, but it's included over there as standard and the treatment cost is much cheaper.  Factoring in flights, hotel etc it works out about £1000 saving per cycle.  We have very little money as it is so need every saving we can get!  We've been happy with them but it's hard at times co-ordinating everything.  One thing you would need to consider as I know you're using ds, is that donors are completely anonymous in a lot of European countries.  Might not be an issue but is definitely a consideration.  I think some in Denmark etc you can choose, but in Czech it's fully anon. 

Aley good for you trying something new with the intralipids, you never know it might be just the little help your body needs.  If you're at the point where you'd regret not trying it and the doctors think it won't do any harm then I think it's definitely the right decision. 

Carrie reading back I think it's your biopsy today - good luck and I hope it's not too painful!  Let us know how you get on. 
Xxx


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## K jade

yeh I remember feeling this way this time last year. on my 5 year anniversary. it really gets u down doesn't it.  I feel my lucks not changed in all this time. 
if my next go doesn't work out I half have it in mind to go to serum and get the hysto done there. then do double donation  as im sick of waiting really. 

yeh ive looked at gennet online and their prices seem very very good. its awful how much they get away with charging in the UK, I really don't blame people for going abroad. I defiantly wont be paying privately anywhere in UK when my NHS goes run out. 

carrie good luck let us know how u get on 
xxx


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## Aley

K jade, that's what I was thinking too, everything seems to be ok with you so think of it this way, even in perfect conditions where there is a pgs embryo+receptive uterus the chances are not 100% so sometimes it is just bad luck and unfortunately people like me and you that really want a child are in the bad luck bunch, the junkies that don't want kids and have already 6 in care are expecting. Is just how life is and I am not even surprised. 
I remember reading once a thing on ******** a thing 'what's the cure for infertility? Try and be a drug addict whore' 
I am not joking, I see it all the time due to my job, drug addicts and alcoholics get pregnant in no time, no struggle at all, tell them about egg quality, lol. Don't mean to be judgmental here at all, just stating facts.
I would go with prof brosens advice and avoid steroids. Head up girl, you'll get there!

Northern, try and enjoy your summer, I am the same, I hate taking long breaks from ttc business but sometimes it's for the best. I've heard lots if good things about gennet, is a popular clinic here in Ireland, mainly because there is no funding at all and treatments here are so expensive. I can't use them unfortunately.

Carrie, good luck with your biopsy, very curious to know what it says when you'll get the results.


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## K jade

ah aley, I work in a similar type of job. its an absolute joke isn't it. tell them to go popping coq10 or sip on vile green smoothies! 
they're is just no rhyme or reason in it. 

feeling a bit more positive today. told myself last night that 'its a marathon not a sprint' (albeit a 6 year one) , and that usually calms me down a bit
xxx


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## Aley

6 years is so long, I can't even imagine how that feels. We're only in it for just over a year, sure a very intense and full of disappointment year. 
I think the only thing that's good in this is that we're still young and have a good few years to play with but in the same time I feel old and tired.

So, another transfer for us will happen in August. Will be a medicated one, starting with the pill, downregulation with Buserelin and then oestrogen and progesterone. A week before transfer I'll have the intralipids. 
This is our last embryo, I'm not sure how I feel about it but definitely not hopeful. 


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## MrsC83

Hi everyone, hope you're all doing ok!

I know what you mean about treatment anniversaries, it gets so tough. Ours is about 3.5 years so I know it's still early days. 

Haven't been on in a while but it sounds like there are a few cycles about to start, crossing fingers and toes for us all!

I had a hysteroscopy yesterday under general anaesthetic, the dr found it difficult to get in and she could see why my transfers were so difficult. She said she left the stretching thing in for ages, eek im just glad I was asleep!! 😬 She said my womb faces down which is common, but it doesn't move much. She's wondering whether I have endo keeping it in place. I don't have particularly painful periods anymore but I used to, so that could be why. So a future option is a laparoscopy, although have heard that can affect egg reserve so I'm not sure what to think. The hysteroscopy also served as a scratch so that's all done at least! 

In the meantime we are going to go ahead with the next round - nurse appointment booked in for end of July, hopefully FET to start in August. The doc was also in favour of low level of steroids so at least all the doctors are on the same page now! 

I'm hoping the hysteroscopy might make future tests like the NK or era test possible if needed in future. 

She did say that we should consider only putting one embryo back in as she thinks we have increased our chances with the dilation, I know it's risky but after all of this I would really like twins! I think it's going to be left for us to decide. 

Hope everyone is doing ok, sorry for lack of personals, on my phone! 
Xxxx


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## Carrie88

Hey Eveeyone  

Hope you're all well, I'll catch up with your news and then fill you in with mine. 

KJADE - best of luck with the new protocol. I've not heard of that but I think if one isn't working then a change is good. Do you start next week? I also get the anniversary of sadness as well. Tomorrow it's been 2 years since our first transfer, I never thought I'd still be doing this in 2017. Sending you big hugs and lots of luck xx 

ALEY - good call with the intralipids, they can't do any harm if you don't need them. When are you transferring? Xx

NORTHERN- I've been impressed with gennet city in London so I bet the Prague one is great as well. Financially wise that makes sense to be there but I bet it's hard trying to juggle things. I hope it pays off for you xx

MRSC83 - was a lap not done before you got referred to ivf? I've heard a lot of women have them before starting? I'm glad your hysterscopy went ok though and hopefully you weren't in too much pain. 
Eeeek that FET start date will be here before you know it xx 




Thanks for all the era comments on Monday - I had it and it was fine but I did take 2 Codiene and 2 ibuprofen. 
Now here's where it gets confusing. 
I paid for a progesterone test on Monday as I wanted to know what my levels were like as obviously it was a mock transfer and Monday would of been the transfer date. 
They were 20.
They need to be 80. 

So I've been transferring embryos with a low progesterone level because guys don't check it!!!! 
The dr said he really wasn't expecting it to be that low. 

So we may need to do another era with more progesterone in the protocol. 

Now I was googling low progesterone causes and one cause was insulin resistance.
One of the tests with dr Gorgy came back as insulin resistance and Gorgy wants me on metformin. 

What if that's my missing puzzle piece? 
What if I've been unable to absorb progesterone properly due to the insulin resistance? And so taking metformin will help balance things out and help absorb the progesterone? 

Lightbulb moment! Xx


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## K jade

carrie!! this is rather exciting , it sounds like you've cracked something here , well done for asking for the test, you did the right thing by following your hunches. 
I read something a while back about how ridiculous it was that clinics don't routinely check for progesterone on transfer day , as it can be a very fixable cause of failures. 
eeeekkk!!!!

MrsC glad you have got the hysto done. the decision on whether to go for a laparoscopy is a really really though one. It was something I thought about a few months ago as endo could be possible with me. you may find this thread helpful for a read to consider you options.
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=366129.0
im with you on putting 2 back and secretly hoping for twins (Its actually my dream). I know we are not supposed to want twins due to the risks but it does make me wander why we are not allowed to want them but people who conceive them naturally are allowed them (rant over LOL )

aley that's brilliant. I will also be transferring late july early aug. fingers crossed for both of us this time!

xx


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## Carrie88

I know!! It was a bit like a eureka moment. 

I'm having a bad day today ladies. 
I was at a hen do over the weekend and the bride to be told me she was on antibiotics like me and couldnt drink. 
She texted me last night to say she's actually pregnant. 
Her 12 week scan is on Monday and her wedding is in a month.
My heart broke and I cried from about 9pm to midnight and then as soon as I got up.

I'm still in bed. 
Can't face the world today.


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## K jade

Urgh Carrie u poor poor thing. (((((many hugs coming your way))))))))))) 
Pregnancy announcements are just the worst. They make me feel jealous, angry, resentful, bitter, sad all at the same time. It feels so personal as well, almost like the person has done it deliberately to slap u in  the face, which of course I know is not true and sounds completely mental,  but that's how it feels. 
U do what u need to do to get through it. Xx


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## Northern

Oh Carrie   
That's a pain I think everyone on here knows all too well and can sympathise with.  I'm so sorry, it's hard watching it happen so beautifully for everyone else when your own life feels like it's stalling with ttc.  Stay in bed as long as you need to, it'll get easier once the news sinks in but it's never an easy time.  Big hugs   
On a more positive note that sounds like a real breakthrough for you - it's something my acupuncturist suggested for me on my last cycle, I had prog levels tested on day of ec and they were normal, but she showed me studies that suggested prog levels around that time have a massive impact on success rates, even with otherwise perfect cycles.  I really hope this is the missing piece of the jigsaw for you.  In all the tests etc that we do sometimes it's nice to actually find something to fix!! 

Mrs C glad everything's ready for you to start next cycle, that's exciting, good that the hysto serves as a scratch as well.  I'm never sure between 1 or 2 either, for me it just depends on how many embies we have and whether we'll have anything to freeze - if we'd still end up with frozen embies then I'd be tempted to do 2 but there are a lot of factors both ways. 

Hi to everyone xx


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## K jade

Ladies can anyone help 
This cycle I ovulate d on day 8/9.which seems ridiculously early  
But anyway. I'm booked in for my scratch on day 21.
Seeing as my cycle will be much shorter this month is day 21 still the right time to have it?? 
No idea why I've ov'd sooo early seems so odd


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## Aley

Are you having a natural fet? I remember being on the pill and buserelin when having my scratch. However even if your period comes early I don't see a problem, after all for me being on the pill meant that my period will come day 25-26 and normally my period will be 32 days.
Taking about ovulation I had it a bit early too and was extremely painful for me this month, I had serious cramps-period like and I still have significant discomfort. 
Don't you just love how your body reacts after ivf...

Carrie, happy to know you have a lead. My clinic doesn't test progesterone either and I find that a bit strange. Have you ever had spotting during 2ww? 
I kinda assumed that because I had no bleeding and had symptoms due to progesterone than my levels are probably high/how it should be. 
Obviously I can be wrong.
Big hugs to you, I know how you feel. 
I actually kept myself quiet lately as I feel that I am so negative about ivf that it's no point writing. 

Hello for the rest, hope you're all doing ok and planning ahead new cycles and tests.


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## K jade

im doing a brand new fresh cycle. 
thinking out loud I do wander why my cycles seem to have got shorter and shorter over the years, and I have read this is a sign of diminishing ovarian reserve. I also have low AMH too. It was 11 four years ago so must be only  about 7 now I would have thought. 

does anyone know if u can still have diminished reserve  but still be a good responder? or would this be totally impossible? 
the more I think about things to more im convinced that my failed cycles are down to my eggs now, and not immune issues...


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## Carrie88

Thanks ladies. The ** announcement happened yesterday as well and I felt sad for us.
So glad she told me beforehand though, thanks for all your comments. I know you all understand how I'm feeling as I know you've all felt it too xx

Kjade - I presume you can still have the scratch as it doesn't matter when you ovulate for a scratch. I'm unsure about the dimished reserve/egg quality question though, sorry chick xx

Aley - nope never had sporting!! I did say that to the dr and he said my level is enough to stop spotting but not high enough for transfer which is weird. Hope you're feeling a bit better this week xx

Northern - thanks for your message  I also think this progesterone is a break through!! Xx

I'm currently packing our suitcase as we're heading for London tonight as we're doing LIT on Thursday but mark needs his blood screening beforehand so we need to go down for 2 nights. Ballache!!


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## K jade

Carrie good luck for tomorrow. Glad the social media thing is outta the way. Give it a few days and it'll all be yesterday's news 

God I'm really fuming. Not only has my cycle decided to mess me about big time, but now I seem to have developed a crippling pain in my lower left side. No idea if it's related to my repro organs or its intestinal, but it's horrid. Comes and goes in waves and makes me wince it's so bad
Great. Body has decided it wants to become a 1991 Nissan micra and just conk out on me. 
Even worse I'm in spain for the week so can't call clinic or gp


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hi ladies

Hope you dont mind me joining the thread

So my DH and I have just finished out sixth fresh cycle resulting in a BFN   - test day was monday so feeling a bit delicate still about it all......

So in short we had two IVF cycles on the NHS and one frozen (we had one BFP which resulted in early miscarriage then the others were BFN); I had one of my fallopian tubes removed at that time due to them being bulbous (clinic in UK) kept remaining tube as said was patent; also had a colposcopy for pre-cancer cells at this time also; went on to have a further further cycles of ICSI privately we we were told by Chelsfield Park Hospital that I had an egg quality issue which required ICSI and egg hatching. On all the cycles we would collect large amounts of eggs, poor fertilisation and would end up with a couple of good quality DAY THREE embryos - again all BFN. 

I was tested for NK cells which came back elevated/high and on the last privately funded ICSI cycle with Chelsfield Park I had IVIG.

We then took 2 years out of everything IVF and had a new kitchen and loads of work done in the house.

Tested positive for anti-thyroid antibodies - however my thyroid functioning is totally normal and isnt affecting my levels.

Then in September 2016 we did an IVF cycle with Serum in Athens - who are amazing!!.......we were told that we had NO sperm issue, NO egg issue and that the whole reason we were getting poor fertilisation was because the UK clinics were over stimming me to produce LOTS of eggs which were immature and therefore would not be ready to fertilise. Anyway - they did straight forward IVF and we ended up with 12 eggs, 11 fertilised and we transferred 3 5AA blasts - resulted in a BFN.......we had two 5AA blasts frozen this cycle.

Then in February 2017 I went over to Mitera Hospital in Athens and had a hysteroscopy and laparoscopy - they removed my remaining tube which had been feeding toxic fluid into my uterus causing scar tissue to form, inflammation on the lining of my uterus, they also removed a septum which had never been picked up in the UK, together with a fibroid on the inside and outside of my uterus (both removed via the outside of my uterus to avoid weakening the uterine lining/wall).

Then in June 2017 we had our second IVF cycle - my right ovary wasnt playing ball - we ended up with 12 eggs, 10 fertilised and we ended up transferring two 5AA blasts and one 5AB blast........BFN again........

On both the Serum cycles I have been on 10mg prednisolone, clexane, intralipids, Zarzio to assist with immune issues........

Just feeling totally   

Spoke with Peny at Serum and she has said they were surprised as yet again, embryos were good, lining was good etc. etc.......her feelings are that our concern is my uterus.....therefore Peny has recommended that I come back this month (two weeks time) to have another hysteroscopy to see whether everything is o.k following all the surgery I had in February - just to ensure the uterine environment is opitimal before transferring any frozen embryo back. Peny has also spoken about possibly doing a natural IVF cycle also - looking to collect my own egg (one) and transfer hopefully on Day Three an embryo.

Just feeling a little bit lost - both me and my DH have every faith in Peny and Serum in Athens and truly believe that if anyone is going to get us pregnant it will be them as they personalise everything so much and are so caring - which is the total opposite of what we experienced unfortunately in the UK.......so it isnt we dont have faith - believe everything Peny is saying is right..........just feel a bit overwhelmed and want to run our situation past some ladies who have been there too to see what you think........

sorry about the essay   

Hope your all o.k

xx


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Carrie - totally understand the whole "annoucement" thing.......think just about everyone around us is on to their second babies now.......one of which being my husband's brother's wife - they are expecting their second baby - we are obviously happy for them - but boy does it "sting"

Hope your o.k - good luck in london with your LIT etc.

xx


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## K jade

Nat welcome to the thread and first of all lots of ((((((((hugs))))))))). What a long tiring journey you've had. 
Your cycles with serum seem to go very well so it must be devastating to again see a bfn. 
The response you got sounds similar to mine. Embies good, lining good, consultant totally stumped. 
I have heard only good things about penny and I think if u can trust anyone's advice it's hers. From what I've read she's a big fan of Hystoscopy and also natural ivf.  
But this all must feel very overwhelming right now I can imagine. After a failed cycle its so hard to think clearly and make decisions about your next steps I know. After my last cycle I literally went through all three UK immunes specialists making and then cancelling appointments lol! 
In a week or so u will feel happier about your plan for your next time , but personally I don't think I could disagree with what penny suggests as she definatly appears to be one step ahead in this business 
Xx
PS can I ask just outta interest what nk cell test u did? Blood or uterine


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Thank you K Jade xxx

Thanks for taking time to read my essay  

Yeah feeling bit better - so up and down.......as you yourself know takes a bit of time 

Ha ha!!! It's such a big decision going to different clinics or consultants etc so don't blame you chopping and changing. I have heard some very good things about some of the top London immune clinics. 

I only had the blood test - the one where they also test your blood with the various suppressants to see which would suppress you best. Haven't done the uterine one. 

Hope your doing ok and pain is easing you had? Enjoy Spain 

Xxx


----------



## Sparkle2016

Hi ladies, hope it's ok to join this thread. We are just trying to start out on DE after multiple failures. Apparently it is egg quality which is the reason now (we started off with male factors) although throughout all our cycles we've never had a positive. I've had the natural killers test and it came back ok. We are trying to pursue DE in Spain but our preferred clinic has just advised the earliest we will be able to have initial consultation is 30th August!! Which is frustrating. Having made the decision  we are keen to get going and I am conscious I am getting older all the time. Wishing everyone best of luck x


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## K jade

Nat Yeh thankfully the pain has gone, no idea what that was about. At least that's one thing less to worry about 
Hope ur feeling better 
I was thinking that the other option u have is to consider that this, technically, would be your first cycle after your surgery. So u could say that beforehand your cycles stood no chance as u hadn't had your tubal issues corrected. 
Therefore, and its not the most inspiring theory, u could have simply had bad luck and it really is just a numbers game. Your other option could be just skip the hysto and plough ahead with next go on that basis...? Something to consider particularly if money is an issue, and I'm sure for most of us it is 

Sparkle welcome. Sorry you've had such a tough journey. We also started out with what we thought was male factor only. So frustrating isn't it  
I've heard very good things about the Spanish clinics 
Do u mind me asking which u are using? 
Xx


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

K Jade thanks for that.....thank you hun for your thoughts on last cycle - very true what your saying re. first cycle as after knowing how bad things were pre-surgery there was no way any poor embryos would have flourished in there. 

We have booked the hysteroscopy for end of this month - I'm flying out to Athens again for this but going alone this trip. First time going on my own but only two nights and lots of ladies do it. 

Luckily our parents are kindly helping us with some of the costs which takes away some of the burden. Just hope it's al worth it. 

Thanks again really made me feel positive reading your post about looking at it that way. Here is hoping we have better luck next cycle. 

Glad to hear your pain has gone now - bodies are funny things sometimes!! 

Sparkle - how frustrating re. wait - although good sign clinic is busy - the clinic in Athens closes for the whole of August that we go to - maybe your clinic closes sometime over summer too which causes a slight delay in appointments. Still a good sign in my view. Good luck 


Take care

Xx


----------



## Fertilityhawk

Hello everyone

Do you mind if I jump onto this thread.  We're feeling so confused right now and at a loss as to what to do.  Quick history, we've had 3 failed IVF's

First Round IVF - 175 of Gonal F - 24 eggs collected, 15 mature, 3 fertilised - BFN
Second Round ICSI due to poor fertilisation - 150 Menopur - terrible response, 1 mature egg - BFN
Third Round ICSI - 175 Gonal F - 13 eggs, 8 Mature, 2 fertilised - BFN

After our latest follow up with our consultation I expressed my view that the amount of embryo's we've managed to secure has not increased even after using ICSI.  DH has been checked out numerous times and comes back tip top.  I'm 37 (35 when we first started but we took a year off to do up our house and generally have a break).  Our consultant thinks that I definitely have a egg problem, maybe a chromosomal issue which is causing the low fertilisation.  He has recommended Donor Egg.

At first I was all fired up for DE and immediately started looking into clinics abroad where the success rates were better with no waiting times.  Then I had a wobble on that front so we went to an adoption opening evening.  I'm now having a wobble on that front and am now thinking I'll give my OE another go but I really don't know why as the chances of it working are so slim.

I've never been pregnant in my life, even with my ex boyfriend between the ages of 20-25 we weren't particularly careful and I never had a scare, never late so I suppose it would make sense that I have a chromosome problem.

We just don't know which way to turn.  I know that only we can decide what to do and no one can tell us what to do decide, but for my own piece of mind did anyone else go through this torturous phase of indecision?  I know whatever we choose DE or Adoption is a major decision.  Either way I would have no genetic link to any child, which is tougher than I thought to get my head around.

Sorry I'm just waffling now.

Thanks ladies xx


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## K jade

Great news Nat, glad u have got it all booked in. Serum hystoscopys are the best. 
I wouldn't worry bout going alone, u can take your time and maybe see if other ladies out there the same time can meet for a coffee 
I personally find my DP just stresses me out when he comes along to anything ivf related so I tend to leave him home anyway! 

Fertilutyhawk yes, I have been where u are now! 
Only difference was it was with donor sperm not egg. Iike u my inability to make a decision was torturous. 
As u will see from my sig my dh is NOA. so no sperm production ever from birth. We too enquired about adopting, but i have a deep longing to be pregnant, and it would always rear its ugly head. Not everyone has that that longing , lots of adoptive mums will say that wasn't important. Everyone is different. 
Most important thing is be honest with yourself. If pregnancy is what u want go for it. U are probably grieving for potential loss of a genetic child. I too felt that grief when I discovered I couldn't have bio kids with my DP. It really hurts but with time it heals. Now I just want my bfp DS, DE I don't care. Nor does dp 
Take your time u will make the right choice 
Xx


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## Carrie88

Kjade - so sorry to hear about your pain, I hope it's not ruined Spain for you. The Nissan micra comment though did crack a smile from me though xx 

NAT1DRAGONFLY - so sorry, what a rollercoaster you've had. It's horrible when transfers fail when you feel like you've added everything (intralipids and steroids). Do Greece do LIT and dq alpha testing? 
I defo believe in Penny from what I've read - she sounds amazing!! 
I'm also thinking of going over to Greece for a hysterscopy and lap.
Do you mind me asking how much it would cost me? 
And is it safe for me to go alone? 
Can you get an appointment relatively quickly? 

Fertilityhawk - what a hard decision you're facing. Have you asked on th DE thread? I would personally go down that route as yes maybe genetically it would not be mine but you would of carried it for 9 months and it will feel 100% yours. I know that is the same for adoption but the length of adoption and how long it then takes to be matched I think DE would be quicker as well xx 



I've had my LIT this week. It's so so painful. I sat and cried all the way through it. 
Second lot is happening in 3 weeks and then a retest in a month. 

I still need to retest the NKC in the womb and then I think I'm good to go ahead for transfer - although seriously debating the hysterscopy in Greece as well.


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Kjade - thanks hun - yeah very true about them getting on your nerves sometimes ha ha!! 

Carrie - hysteroscopy is 1650 euros. Laparoscopy and hysteroscopy together are 4200 euro I think it was. You can get a hysteroscopy booked next day its very quick. 

Athens is very safe to travel alone - serum clinic have their own cab driver you can use too - although he is a little more expensive than normal can gives you extra reassurance. I have no fears travelling over there alone. 

The only thing I would say is that when I went for laparoscopy and hysteroscopy I didn't realise (neither did they till they looked inside) how much needed to be done and therefore flying home next day wasn't such a great idea. Hysteroscopy on its own I am flying home next day. But if you have both may pay just to stay extra day in case. 

Mitera Hospital is where you have it in Athens. Very modern and most people speak clear English and found the process very easy. 

Sounds like you have had a journey too. Good luck with your decision xxx


----------



## Northern

Welcome NatDragonfly, Fertilityhawk and Sparkle, sorry you find yourselves on this thread, sounds like you've all had tough journeys up to now. Repeated bfn's is a horrible position to be in, but I'm glad we have this thread now to swap ideas and share support xx 

Fertilityhawk I'm in a similar position as you but with sperm as our problem (we think). DS has been suggested and we did a 50/50 donor/own sperm cycle on our last attempt. We had one own sperm blast for transfer which was bfn again. The obvious step is to go back for our donor sperm embies but the more I tried to get my head round it the more the little voice at the back of my head made me think I'm just not ready for it. We're going back for another os/oe cycle in November. Have you read 'It Starts With the Egg?' There are some useful tips in there for improving egg quality, might be worth a try. 

Carrie hope you're feeling better after the LIT, it sounds pretty horrible! 

Hope you're all having a good weekend xx


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hi

Thanks Northern xxx

Sorry to hear also your journey but likewise feel grateful to have found this forum. 

Good luck for your cycle in November xxx


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## K jade

Carrie I had heard that LIT was painful, but didn't want to say before you had it. looks like you found out for yourself though! well done for getting through it. 
I imagine it feels a bit like having a tattoo perhaps

back from holiday on Saturday had such a lovely time with DP and felt so sad  to be over. 
however I have my scratch today at 2.00pm. think I might get myself to the pharmacy to get some neurophen plus, as the ibro did nothing for me last time... 

hope everyone else is good
KJxxx


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## Sparkle2016

K Jade, we have been liaising with two Spanish clinics - Institute Bernabeu (IB) and Vistahermosa (VH). IB closes for summer so initial consultation is booked for 30th August!. We have just had initial consultation with VH (took a couple of days to organise) and they can start us pretty much straight away. Now I'm not sure what to do - wait another 6 weeks for the IB consultation of go with VH which means starting straight away.  

Anyone have any experience or thoughts they would be happy to share? 
Many thanks x


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## K jade

sparkle I have no personal experience  but I have heard very good things about IB.they do seem to have an excellent reputation and success rates and they get results!
I was actually in Alicante on Friday and saw their advert at a bus stop! its a lovely little town as well, with lots to see and do, so a nice place to have treatment. 

I understand the need to want to get on with things as well as the waiting does take its toll. but given that you will be using DE  time  is not so important anymore as women are successful with DE well into their 50s  and given you are still in your 30s you are young in ivf terms and especially DE. 

all I can say is IB would be my first choice if I end up going down the DE route, but to be honest I think all the Spanish clinics have excellent reputations and are very forward thinking so go with the one you feel a pull towards


had my scratch yesterday absolute agony !!! cocodemol didn't even touch the sides and my eyes were watering and I couldn't even speak 
xx


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## Sparkle2016

thank you K jade. I was surprised when the Dr on skype said i was young this morning for DE as well - we have been trying for so long I now feel quite old.  
Sorry the scratch hurt, hope you are feeling better now. I've had a few, but never been too bad thank fully (although did vary in pain level depending on which day of cycle it was done), although the uNK test was agony - I wasn't advised to take any pain relief - wish I had been. Hope you are taking it easy x


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## Fertilityhawk

Hello ladies

KJade - thank you so much for your response, it does certainly help that others have struggled to make a decision.  I wish you all the very best for your future treatments xx 

Carrie88 - Thanks for your response.  Yes I have tried the DE thread, I seem to be trying them all out recently    I must come across as a complete nutter, posting on DE Thread, then on Adoption thread, but I guess it's just a process I have to go through.  So sorry to hear that your procedure was so painful    If it's any consolation I would be more than happy to go away without my DH for a couple of days    From what I've heard about Serum they really do take care of you xx 

Northern - thank you for your kind response.  It's so difficult isn't it.  When we were first told that we should consider DE I was all fired up for it and wanted to get right on with it.  Then the more I thought about it the more difficult I found considering that a child wouldn't have my genetic link.  I don't have the best relationship at times with my own mum so the thought of a teenager shouting that I wasn't their real mum is very painful for me to think about.  I would work very hard to ensure that any child I had has a better relationship with their mum than what I do.  I really hope that your next cycle in November works. 

Yes I have read it starts with an egg.  I did follow it on my last 2 cycles, not to the exact letter as its so strict but didn't feel as though it made a difference to me.  I have seen recently that a fertility guide (can't remember which one) is now suggesting that anyone TTC cuts down their carb intake to once per day which I thought was very interesting.....

Natdragonfly - our stories sound so similar with the egg quality issues.  We also had a year off to do up our house and it was the best decision.  We'd bought the house years ago to for all the children we were going to have    We knew it needed a refurb.  After our second failed ICSI I had a meltdown and said that life was depressing enough without coming home to a red patterned 70's carpet on the stairs and landing    
I really wish you all the luck in the world with Penny at Serum.  You've been through so much already xx 

As for us we're still working through our thoughts, I'm hoping we'll come to the right decision eventually 

xx


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## K jade

Fertilityhawk said:


> After our second failed ICSI I had a meltdown and said that life was depressing enough without coming home to a red patterned 70's carpet on the stairs and landing  xx


  I can relate to that. we also did up our house whilst going through tx. it was sooooo depressing coming home to disgusting carpets! we finished just after xmas. now my DH wants to sell and do it all again on another house


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## K jade

Hope everyone is OK and had a good weekend 

I'll be starting stims tomorrow. 150 of merinol. Not had that one before. Gotta call clinic first thing to get my scan then it's all go. 
Really hoping it could finally be our time.  
Xx


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## Aley

Jumping in to say best of luck k jade! 
Be hopeful, you have all the reasons to succeed.


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## Northern

Eeek lots of luck to you Kjade!  Exciting/nervewracking all at once but we're all  here cheering you on, everything crossed that this is your time!     hope scan went ok today and you're all set for starting stimms Xx


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Good luck K Jade - hope Scan went ok and your stims is underway xxx


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## K jade

thanks everyone
as it happens I didn't get going yesterday. 
not having scan until tomorrow, so will be a day 4 start for me. not started that late before its always been day 3 in the past. 
just wanna  get on with  injecting now
funny the things u look forward to! xx


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## K jade

Well everything went OK this morning
My AFC is 12, which is down quite a bit from 20 three years ago 
But otherwise I'm all set to go and back on Monday to see how the stimming is going. 
I'm more convinced that my failures are down to my eggs now and not immune issues. As I really have no signs anything is haywire with my immune system. 
My amh was only about 11 and that was a long time ago.. so it'll be very low now 

I'm hoping the lifestyle changes I've made in the last 3 months will help and that I'll get a normal embie in there somewhere. Fingers crossed 
Xx


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## MrsC83

How are you getting on with it all k jade? Are you back in tomorrow for a scan? Hope it goes well! 
Xxx


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## apples2014

Hi can I join your thread? Please I've had a read back and this seems like the place for me. You all sound lovely. 
I am sorry we are all here though!

I am bag of anxious nerves. I've not been on here for months and am too miserable for my usual thread for my clinic right now, but hi Northern xx

My husband has just booked us flights to go to Prague to have ET on 10th August. It's my 5th try of donated embryo although due to poverty we only transfer single embryo now. 

You can see my rap below. Tried own egg for ages. Done posh London clinic, lovely penny and now in Prague for donated embryos. We've had 4 transfers us and 4 transfers donor. 
Had two hysto's nothing is wrong
Had immune testing all normal nothing wrong 
I am hetro MRFTH but it's in check and clexane 

I've had ERA at Gennet in July last year I was pre receptive and told to take progesterone 12 hours earlier to fix. Had Quenby biopsy last August and was at 15 per cent so took steroids and last sept had my first ever BFP but was a chemical all over by day 14 after transfer. 

Had Quenby biopsy again in November NK cells lower than 5 ( this happens apparently) had a transfer in December straight bfn. 

Had biopsy in Feb with Brosen's. low NK cells again but he suggested delaying further ET and they would test receptivity for me and asked me to come back in a dummy drug protocol so took all the drugs for a ET but went to Coventry on day of usual transfer instead for biopsy. 

He called a few weeks later. I was low on the receptivity and tested positively for CD138 inflammation (this caused a lot of nervous google times) was told to up progesterone and take anti b's for one week b4 transfer 

So had et in April. Second ever bfn but chemical all over by day 12. I've been dark! It's so horrible. I can't face giving up! Saw lovely Brosen's again in another dummy biopsy cycle in June and last week got the results (he had up the progesterone) I was swimming in it! Good news! NK cells at 5, cd 138 thing gone but receptivity low meaning none receptive. Had long chat with him Monday. He says just crack on with threatment it can't be explained. I am receptive in the biopsy when went up for just NK testing (so no dummy cycle) but not so much when am on the prognova and progesterone needed for a FET. Natural transfer isn't an option as success rates too low apparently. 

Had a Skype with our clinic on weds. Our consultant is thorough and no nonsense and he just thinks we need get trying again and receptivity changes and to get on and stop having biopsies as there is no answer. Brosen's said the same. 

So I came on late yesterday afternoon so today is cycle day 1 and just booked to fly over for August transfer. I am very anxious about this biopsy business I don't understand it all! But I guess I just need to get over there and get it done. 

I don't think waiting any longer helps either. Each month I just feel more worried so the chemical was April so .... here we go again. 

The cd 138 thing is gone so they saying no anti b's for a week before. The NK cells were only high last July at 15 which isn't even that high but they've been around 5 for awhile now so no steroids either just got to go get on with it. 

I just turned 40 and had such a great holiday and my friends and family have been amazing, I've changed jobs in December to have less stress and I am a yoga bunny (not a skinny one mind ha ha I am a good size 12 even 14 unless it's a generous shop) and I am having acupuncture every 3 weeks. So I am managing the stress/ anxiety as much as I can but my heart feels empty/ broken so often. Am a happy girl and I keep myself filled up with nice times as much as I can but oh my goodness this is breaking my heart. I just want to have a baby more than anything in the world. I even go to a bit of counselling a couple of times a month to look after myself and DH is very very supportive, he wants it too. But I am worried, am I going to be okay if it's another NO! This biopsy business has thrown me, I think I've well and truly messed up Brosen's research data! It's a bit of a mystery, he was so sorry that there is no scientific answer to this. 
Just try again! 

I am sorry this is long! I hope I make sense. Truthfully I wanted to post for some support but also wondering if anyone sees this and has had another similar! 

I hope you don't mind me jumping on here! 

Love Apples x


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## ladykris

Hi ladies. This thread is ace. These stories resonate with me. 

Me: I'm 41. 
Endometriosis and UC -( immune issue). 
Ectopic in NY in 2012. Naturally conceived after 6 mo plus trying. 
1 cycle in clinical trial - natural micro ivf. Hmpf. 1 egg. No mature. 
2 cycles with 2 top grade embryos. 5 day transfer. Both BFN. 
3 cycles with OE in Iceland with NHS equivalent. Nothing nuts fancy. No success. Tried some testosterone for kicks. BFN
2 (or 3?) cycles with OE at fancy London clinic. (Where I live now) NK cells ok but toxicity an issue. So progesterone. BFP - for a week. 
1 DE cycle with 38 year old known donor in Iceland. No luck. Embryos poor. But she's had a successful pregnancy since then. 
1 fresh DE cycle with IB Alicante 3 fab embryos but biopsy showed issue with 1. 1 transferred. BFP - but numbers climbed slowly and then tapered quickly and MC at 7 or 8 weeks. 
Back for FET in may but BFN. All on clexane and progesterone. Going back in august for transfer. 

Its tough. Trying to not let this run our lives. At 6 years who's still keeping score of stuff missed? Ugh. 

On the plus side I seem mostly OK with the drugs. The contraceptive pill seems to be my least favourite. Makes me incredibly depressed and tired - anyone experience the same? I can jab all that other stuff in my ass all day long without issue. -kind of. 
The steroids make me excited restless and confused - Makes for some good LOLs at work. 

I've been hesitant to try out acupuncture. Simply for the money and inconvenience of keeping appts on top of the other stuff. Usually been good with food and caffeine. Try to limit the wine slushing during treatment. Last winter I was going to hot yoga which was very relaxing but nothing after transfer. Too scared to risk. But its this balance thing. For how long can one live like a pregnant temple without being pregnant? Feels a bit futile. I doubt caffeine, burgers or Sauvignon blanc is causing this. Or?

None of my drs have suggested scratching or anything yet (YET!!). My lining seems to be my one star player. Never lets me down. 

I'm totally combing through this thread for things you've all tried. 

Anyways. Nice to meet you all. Sorry for length. Vent over. 
K



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## K jade

Welcome apples and ladykris   Sorry , it really sounds like u have both been through the blxxdy mill !

Apples wow u have had one hell of a ride. It really sounds like u have had every test possible and left no stone unturned.
I actually posted recently about whether the drugs we take affect receptivity. As progynova (correct me if I'm wrong) is a form of contraceptive. Now my understanding is that part of what the pill does is fool your body to thinking your already pregnant . So that u don't get pregnant again. It makes me question what that may do to our endometrial receptivity...maybe I'm totally wrong but it's certainly something that's crossed my mind before.
A few things : have your donor embryos all been from the same batch? Also have u always done double transfers? Some suggest that transferring one is better as a defective one can prevent a normal one from implanting. Sorry I'm going over old ground. A natural FET to me sounds like something to try. It's a shame gennet aren't being receptive to your suggestions.
I can completely relate to how u feel. Multiple failed cycles are devastating and I haven't had anywhere near the rough ride u have
It sounds as if u may however have fallen on the very unlucky side of the numbers game and it's only a matter of time for u fingers crossed. Many on here get their BFP after 10plus cycles with no known reason why it never worked before. 

Ladykris sorry u have been through hell with this too. I'm also coming up to 6 years and completely lost track of all the things I've missed as I just get too upset thinking about it. Who did u see for immune testing ? have u looked into pro longed down regging before transfer. That is known to make all the  difference for endomeitriosis ladies with implantation failure..

MrsC83 im OK thanks. I think the drugs are working as my ovaries feel like golf balls. But well see tomorow. I hope things are on track. Wish me luck. Always get nervous going for news at my clinic. Hopefully I'll come out smiling though. 

I'm so glad I started this thread, so many of us need this support . Multiple bfns are so devastating, I'm glad we have this thread so we are not facing it alone

Xx


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## ladykris

Hey - thanks for the quick reply- I saw the Lister hospital for the immune testing. 
Pro longed down regging? I must look into this. Haven't heard of this before. 
Yes, I try to avoid thinking too much about the could haves in the past years. Way too upsetting. 
.............
Ladykris sorry u have been through hell with this too. I'm also coming up to 6 years and completely lost track of all the things I've missed as I just get too upset thinking about it. Who did u see for immune testing ? have u looked into pro longed down regging before transfer. That is known to make all the difference for endomeitriosis ladies with implantation failure..
Xx
[/quote]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## K jade

Scan didn't go as well as hoped. Follies are quite uneven and I seem to have 2 lead ones. 
Also a much poorer response compared to previous cycles 
There's a small chance of cancellation but most likely EC will be Friday. I think the chance of me getting any to freeze is next to zero 

*** well that was rubbish. I've been converted to IUI cause of my rubbish response. cannot believe it. my last cycle was an IUI converted to IVF cause my response was so good! feel like my body is just having a massive laugh at my expense ! *****


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## Northern

Oh no kjade I can't believe that! How has that happened, are you on a very different protocol to previous cycles? Can't they increase or changed your meds to keep with IVF? Urgh how frustrating for you, why can't it all just go as planned?! 

Apples, hello lovely - I have thought many times you might like this thread but thought you were prob having some much needed time away from it all. You're very brave going back again and I hope you can relax into it a bit but I know how you must be feeling. I've not been on the Gennet thread much either as not having treatment for a while and I'm feeling a bit disconnected from it. Been thinking of you a lot and wondering how you were doing, am sending you massive hugs and praying with all my might that this is the one xxxx


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## K jade

Northern thanks hun. Yeh they changed my protocol. The plan was do  five days of stims then add the suppressant, which I was due to start today. Antagonist protocol it's called. Did plain short one before. 
I didn't start my stims till day 4 as that's when the clinic brought me in for baseline. The thing is I think by then my body had already selected a lead follicle. Or follicles in my case. I have 2 dominants. And they are basically 'eating' all the stims. This is certainly the wrong protocol for me. 
I only have 6 others in total which my consultant says is a poor response for me, and she's right. So think it's a Lost cause 
Wtf! An iui converted to IVF cause I responded so well 
Now an ivf converted to IUI cause my response is p!$$ poor!  
Gonna trigger tonight then iui Wednesday. 
Sorry to splurge. Feeling so Blxxdy deflated. 6 years ttc and not a lot to show for it so far


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey kjade!

Sorry hun your cycle isn't going to plan......why are our bodies such funny things at times.......the thing is although so frustrating it's worth trying different things and adapting the cycles as sometimes the little tweaks made are the piece of the missing puzzle. Unfortunately though it's not always case and learn that along the way......all I would say is do not lose hope......it's not been cancelled totally you are going in for IUI and this may be your time......keep positive......I know it's hard I truly do but I think all we have when it gets to this stage is a whole load of hope and have to keep it......get those happy hormones jumping about do some things you enjoy and watch this space.......hope this is your time 

Xxx


----------



## apples2014

Oh boo! Kjade I wrote a post to reply and lost it! 
Thank you for the welcome and Northern. I really wasn't sure whether to post so thanks. 

Have to go now (so annoying lost my post) will do it again another day. But wanted to say to Kjade glad it's still going to be a iui but how frustrating for you lovely. How are you? Xxx

Hi to everyone I else. 

Love apples xxx


----------



## MrsC83

So sorry k jade that the plans have had to change. You must feel really disappointed but stay positive, there's no reason why the IUI won't work! 

AFM we had our planning appointment and we're starting a short frozen cycle in August. Start drugs on CD1, really not sure when that will be as the hysteroscopy and scratch brought AF early and light this month but hopefully about 2 weeks away. The clinic has only just started offering embryo glue, there's not much evidence that it has an impact on frozen cycles but going to do it anyway. 
Lots of love to everyone 
Xxxx


----------



## K jade

Thanks ladies. I have read all your replies and am grateful for your kind words, sorry for no personals am typing on my phone. 
Am going in tomorrow at 12.00 for IUI, nothing to lose I guess. Got the day off work so will pop over a friend's afterwards. 
I didnt have a good day yesterday but a bit better today. It's a rough time of your for me anyway as our ttc anniversary looms. Always so conscious of the passing of time. Ivf takes so much from u and it can be so hard to muster the energy for anything else. 

Mrsc great news, not  long till you get going then. My clinic use embie glue and they are NHS so there must be some positive research out there on it x


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

KJade

Sorry to hear your feeling a bit glum......I think we all know how your feeling....it's only natural.....at the end of the last cycle we just did getting the BFN it suddenly hit me that the whole of our thirties has been spent doing IVF.......however once had a little time to lick my wounds so to speak realised that yes that is true however we have had some very good experiences and memories that are not just IVF and have to make a conscience effort to make sure you try and keep things up that are not IVF too just for some mental sanity.......

Have everything crossed for your IUI hun- don't feel defeated - you never know what is going to be the thing that will work - often read of ladies who are concerned at advice clinic have given to change things up s bit that then go on to be successful from it......

Have a nice time with your friend after your IUI - go and have a good old natter and a laugh together

Xx


----------



## Northern

Lots of luck to you today KJade - I think Natdragonfly is right, looking at the positives IUI is much less stress on your body and it's still giving you a chance to get pregnant, you never know.  Everything crossed for you and hope you can stay sane in the tww! X 

Big hugs to apples    Don't know if you've tried them but I found youtube ivf visualisations really helpful in my last round.  Maybe a bit out there but they were very relaxing and helped me get find a more positive mindset when I needed it.  Just a thought.  Hope you're doing ok lovely xxx 

Hi to everyone else, hope you're all ok x


----------



## K jade

Thanks Nat and northern 

Am home now so here's to another 2ww. 
Realistically I think the thing that'll let me down is the fact that the follicles grew so fast and we're big so early so I'm not sure they'll contain great eggs, but we'll have to see. The thing is I've had all these cycles before that have gone so well but haven't worked,so why not try a [email protected] cycle! 

Aw there was a couple in the waiting room with me who must have had bad news they looked so devastated and stony faced. Felt so sorry for them. No idea what needless to say I was earwigging trynna find out but to no avail. 

Hope everyone's OK. 
Nat did I have your Hysto? 
X


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hi KJade!

Everything crossed for you hun.......try and relax and just take your mind off things as much as possible......hopefully this will turn out to be your perfect cycle rather than a "crap" one as you think it has been so far.......sometimes things have a funny old way of working their way out.......

Yep had my hysteroscopy on monday morning in Athens - went over on my own this time - which wasnt a problem at all - love it out there and cannot fault the hospital and staff etc.......the clinic have said that all looked good - they wouldnt have known that I had had all the work I had done back in february, if they didnt know already......they have put me on some strong antibiotics just to clear a little remaining inflammation - they are the big guns antibiotics so have a nice dodgy tummy with them ha ha!!!......I also had the immune blood tests carried out which have revealed raised NK cells and also raised TNFa - the clinic are putting me on prednisolone 5mg tablets (two a day) for a month period to cycling, together with Celebrex 200mg one tablet a day for a month prior to cycling - and then immune treatment during cycle. We are planning to have a FET in september - although we are trying a Natural FET this time - apart from the immune medication we will have nothing else and allow my body to try and do what it needs to do. So a little break for now as such until mid-september time........

Keeping everything crossed for you

xxx


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## K jade

nat your very right. its as good a chance as any

oh ive heard the serum anti biotics are incredibly strong.  I was so relieved when I didn't need them after I had the hidden C done. 
that's great only 6 weeks or so away. 
tbh I am interested in natural FET as I have some issues with all these drugs we are given , particularly down regging ones, as I do wander it they switch our natural lining  receptors off. 
so natural fet defiantly sounds like a good plan
there was a lady on here recently that went through multiple failures with great blasts, even the full immune tx with DrG. 
she pushed her clinic to give her a natural FET, they weren't keen, and BFP!


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Glad your feeling a bit more positive ......

I was a little sceptical at first when Peny first said it but we have every faith in her and the clinic and just want to go with what she thinks.....on reading about natural FET I think it's right for us after everything that has happened.....as you mentioned I had also read about drugs effecting possibly the receptivity of your lining so natural sounds good. 

Everything crossed for you

Xxx


----------



## apples2014

Hope you able to relax and feel okay Kjade, thinking of you xx

Nat glad hysto all okay. I loved the staff at that hospital so nice and lovely Penny. I will follow with great interest about the natural FET I only left serum as we couldn't afford it anymore but with all the confusion last week about my lining receptivity I nearly email Penny for advice. But we had a good Skype in the end with our own one. Serum is very special. I just spoke to a buddy I met at serum who had her c section baby girl from Penny last week. Sending you lots of luck. 

I dunno why but Brosen's and our  Gennet senior consultant both saying WE (know we all different) should press on with medicated FET but a part of me is still confused and wonder about natural FET. But for once I am going to do as I am told and started the little blue pills Sunday. Transfer in two weeks. 

Wow Nat those anti b's ( too much info ha ha but they are quick to the loo ha ha) sounds like you have a brilliant plan and September be here b4 you know it. 

Hi everyone else. 
Just home from yoga am starving but didn't want to read and run 
Love Apples.  Xxx


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## K jade

Not long now apples, good to see more people will be cycling soon on this thread. I really wanna see a bfp on here soon
Common girls we can do this!  

Just out of interest how much is embryo donation /DD at serum, anyone know?


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey apples

I think you have to have faith in your clinic and what they are doing.....natural to question things though but think they must have their reasons for wanting medicated for you. I like the security of medicated to be honest. All a little bit new and scary this natural cycle stuff so we shall see. 

Good luck with your cycle xx

A yoga studio is opening near me - thinking on taking it up when it opens - only done it once before but think would be really good to try and do exercise that isn't too high impact. 

Kjade. I'm not sure hun on donor cycles. I do know that some of the ladies were saying Serum are now doing Double Donor cycles for 10,000 euro but that that covers all cycles you need to get I believe your baby. Not entirely sure of the terms of whatever but few ladies on serum threads have spoken about it. I seem to think that donor egg was about 5,000 euro but worth checking out serum threads. 

Xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Lovely ladies I'm so sorry I've not checked in for ages - work has been mental.
I'm going to read and catch up this afternoon xx


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## K jade

hope the mods don't mind me changing the name of this thread a bit. just thought it had a great ring to  it!!


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Love it


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## Northern

Hahaha I like it!


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## MrsC83

Brilliant!!!


----------



## K jade

Thanks Nat for that info. Yeh I think I've heard of that 10k unlimited transfer programme. That's very good seeing as UK clinics charge about that for one DE cycle!Serum is certainly on my bucket list if no joy with my NHS clinic 

Glad u like our new thread name! 

Carrie hope your well hun, any updates from your end? 

Afm  day 4 off 2ww.not expecting much from this one. 
Decided to change my donor for my next attempt I think...Hopefully I'll be able to get going again by the end of October.
Kjxx


----------



## Carrie88

Hahahaha ohmygod I can't stop laughing at the name of this thread now. Brilliant!! 

KJade - what on earth? I can't believe the ivf mess up led you to switch to IUI. What dose were you on? Did they down reg you? Or put you on the pill? That's to make sure your follicles should all start growing together.
When is your test date? Xx

NAT - I'm glad your hysto went ok and you have a plan for your next transfer. September will be here before you know me xx 

Apples2014 - best of luck for your transfer. Hope you're getting on ok with your meds. I agree you've got to trust your clinic but it's hard when there's so much conflicting information. I don't think there's any difference between medicated or natural - some people prefer to do natural cos they struggle with the meds but that's it xx 


Everyone else hi I hope you're all doing ok x

AFM - were heading back down to London tonight ready for tomorrow as we have our second and hopefully last LIT and a repeat NKC biopsy. Our results are also in from the era - we get them Wednesday.
We're also moving our embryos from guys to Gorgy so we need to sort that out tomorrow as well x


----------



## K jade

Oh Carrie I know it all went so wrong. 
Antagonist protocol  is where u don't take a down reg until day 5 of stims .and they didn't even start me on my stims until CD 4/5.of course I was gonna have dominant follies! I was only on 150iu as, up till now I've been a great responder. 
Anyway nothings wasted as I had an IUI in the bank I hadn't used. I'll just do my full ivf cycle in Sept or October. Your so right I should have been on a down reg drug. I don't really get the antagonist protocol as like u said Surley it's just gonna give u dominant follies 

You've made a very brave decision there and good on u. Put your faith in Dr gorgy as he seems to be the one to crack this for u. Not only that but sometimes a new clinic makes all the difference as u are getting a fresh perspective. Different clinics work for different people. Hope the LIT went OK. When are u going to do your next transfer? Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Bless you  
All our times have to be coming!! We can't be this unlucky forever!! 

Good job you had an iui in the bank and hopefully it means the same won't happen for the Next full ivf cycle. 

Thanks lovely I hope so. 
I was very emotional at guys yesterday signing the paperwork, purely because I never thought I'd be leaving there without our baby but I know I have to look forward. 
Just because it was the right decision still didn't make it easy. 

LIT went fine  

I think it's going to be an October transfer xx


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## K jade

I can imagine that must have been really hard.  You, like me, started treatment thinking it would be straightforward as there were no actual fertility issues.
life unfortunately has the tendency to throw us unexpected curveballs.  your right you just have to keep moving forwards. determination and stubbornness  tend to pay off in this arena. glad LIT went well. October is not far off. I may be joining you there if this cycle doesn't work    

girls its a big moment for me. It has been exactly ONE FULL week since my last caffeinated coffee! I thought id try it as I've always drunk minimal amounts of coffee throughout my  cycles (well one per day actually )  so at this point out of desperation thought well anything's worth a try. 
if I get a bfn then I think you can all rest assured that its rubbish and can carry on eating and drinking what u like on your 2ww


----------



## Northern

Hahaha Kjade I've been there!  I've been drinking redbush tea since February 2016 in the hope that reduced caffiene would be the missing link!  I now have a normal cuppa first thing, and in between cycles I treat myself to a mid-morning coffee, after that it's decaff all the way!  Didn't make the difference for me unfortunately but perhaps it'll work for you!    Glad to see you're doing ok despite frustrating cycle - hoping you don't need to go back in October but glad you've got a plan in place. 

Carrie moving clinics must be hard, we never think that far ahead when new to all this.  Glad LIT was ok, hoping it all pays off for you soon - you're right we can't be this unlucky forever! 

Apples how are you doing?  Have you got everything booked for Prague? 

No news here really, we have our skype consult on Friday for our next cycle - at 6.30 in the morning oh joy! 
Xx


----------



## K jade

oh northern it sounds like you've already done my experiment for me lol!
god you are good drinking only redbush. I honestly recoil at any alternative teas  fruit teas being  the worst, really cant bear them.
id really kill for a big old jug of coffee right now. I'm practically falling asleep at work. if I get a bfn i'm literally gonna drink my body weight in it. its actually making the thought of a BFN sound appealing right now

6.30 wow , they get started early. are u going to be trying anything different for this cycle? I spose  you'll discuss all that Friday
xx


----------



## Northern

Ha yes it is a bit early, it'll be 7.30 over there - I'm sort of hoping for slightly poor connection so they can't see my groggy early morning face!  I've an idea they may suggest long protocol, we've only ever done short before due to my many follicles and ohss risk, but maybe long would be worth a go to try and get them to grow more evenly. 

I hate fruit teas too, they look and smell so much better than they taste!  Redbush took a bit of getting used to but it actually feels a lot like drinking tea now and it's naturally caffeine free which I like.  Actually once I pushed through the withdrawal phase I do feel a lot less dependent on caffeine to get me through the day, so I like to think it's been worthwhile even if it didn't work to get my bfp! 

Keep up that willpower -afternoons are the hardest! X


----------



## K jade

yeh from what I have learnt , via trial and error , the earlier you start DR the more evenly your follies grow. my last cycle with no DR resulted in complete disaster for me due to the 2 dominants. I think LP is also good for endo ladies from what I've gathered.  all very exciting , let us know how u get on tomorrow. 

well only a week until OTD. god I'm feeling deflated . literally. had really sore (.)(.) until last night now they are back to their pancake selves. so feeling very unpregnant tbh. I know you cant actually tell whether your pregnant or not from boob soreness but still. i'm literally groping and prodding them to make them more sore. thank god im in my own office today and not surrounded by colleagues. im free to grope till my hearts content. i don't even know why im even putting any thought into this 2ww either cause its been a disaster. best to just focus on the next go I think for the sake of my sanity.


----------



## Northern

Kjade how's boobwatch this morning?!  Hope you're not feeling too down though I completely get it, I think end of week 1 in tww is the worst time and progesterone is an absolute b*stard, possibly my least favourite thing in the world.  Try and stay sane, do you have anything nice planned for the weekend? 

Consultation this morning was pretty much the usual.  Our doctor is brutally honest, which we do like about him but he really doesn't hide the fact that he doesn't have much hope for us! "you know I think your partner's sperm is definitely the negative factor....you need to think about what you will do if we don't find any sperm to use, what will you do with your eggs?"  That said, we've always had reasonable fertilisation rates even when we only used 1 straw of sperm, it's just a case of finding the golden sperm which works (hence trying IMSI again); we used 3 straws last time and will use our final 2 straws this time. 

He wouldn't recommend long protocol due to my many follicles, he still thinks shorts protocol is best for us, and thinks the amount of immature eggs we've had is just a fact of life with PCOS.  As we've had such great response with donor sperm there's clearly nothing wrong with my eggs, I'd just like to get more of them mature so we can actually use them! 

So it's pretty much business as usual, and hope for the best.  He's clearly not very optimistic, but I still don't regret our decision to give own sperm another chance.  It's all just a great big reminder of how much I want it to work, the old ivf pressure is weighing down again....!

Hi to everyone, Carrie, Nat, MrsC, Apples how is everyone? 
Xx


----------



## K jade

boobwatch is going well  northern. 2ww not so well. I had a weak coffee this morning and lifted a heavy grocery bag back to work from the shop.
job well done I say!  

glad appointment went well. its a really hard one with sperm. I used to be on the NOA thread and obviously with that you are working with very limited numbers of poor sperm, which is often from surgery. yet loads of ladies on that thread seem to have success. Ironically I am one of the only ones from that thread who doesn't have their baby and I am using proven super sperm. so u just cant tell 
xx


----------



## Angedelight

Hi ladies

Hope you don't mind me jumping on. This is definetely the thread for me! I'm so sorry we all
find ourselves here, this process is so hard. 

Nat1dragonfly- what you said about it consuming your 30s really resonated with me, I feel exactly the same! Started TTC when I was 31, 38 is approaching and still no closer!. I'm actually looking forward to being 40 when this will all be done one way or the other!!.

Does anyone know much about NK cells? Latest kick in the teeth is that mine are 'significantly high NK concentration' and a 'significantly elevated percentage'. These were tested by bloods.

Some days I think this is all a bad dream that I'll wake up from and others I feel like some sort of mad woman for pressing on, spending so much money, so much time on something where the odds seem very much stacked against us.

Lovung the name of the thread, I might work out how many injections I've actually given myself. Honestly, how does anyone have sex and make a baby??.

X


----------



## K jade

Hi Mrs C sorry you've wound up on this thread, there's certainly a few of us! We'll gel there one way or another. 
As for the nk cell thing I had the biopsy,but I think the treatment is basically the same, steroids /humira /intralipids that kind of thing. U are with serum? They are very clued up 
I know what u mean about this malarkey taking over your adult life. I now cherish my memories of being young single and carefree. And waking up hungover on a Sunday! U just never know what life will throw at u
Don't get me started on those peeps who have a quickie and 'fall' pregnant, I've come to the conclusion they are of a different species. 

Afm this 2ww is proving fruitless. I've had the dreaded progesterone dropping of a cliff feeling that I get, every single cycle. I'm still on the lubion but I can feel my natural progesterone has pretty much dried up, obviously because of no implantation. Again . Wish my body would surprise me for a change!


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey
Welcome MrsC xx

KJade - sorry for feeling glum during TWW - it's such a difficult wait - feels like longest two weeks ever....really hope its positive news this time round. Trouble is we know our own bodies so well don't we - you just have a gut feeling - no matter how many people say to keep positive d andypu never know etc etc.......the way I tried to cope with the negative days was to think positively as such about the way forward if it was a negative. 

Mrs C - totally get you - same as KJade I remember the days of not having to worry about what I was eating, drinking or doing......most of my thirties has been trying to constantly fine tune myself in the hope it cures whatever hasn't worked before for us.......hopefully it will all be worth it in the end and eventually we will all look back and think those years were worth it......mad to think back to the times when me and DH were trying for a baby the good old fashioned way ha ha!!!!

Anyway nice to have this thread to realise we are not alone in all this - and hopefully get some lovely BFPs on here soon for us 

Xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade - exactly. I started this process exactly the same as you, so convinced it would work with no real problems. When is your test day? It feels like your 2ww has lasted forever!! 
I'm still going to cross my fingers for you as I'm hoping the NKC biopsy has acted as your scratch and is making it doing its thing down there!! Xx 

Northern - I love redbush tea!! I don't like coffee but do like tea but around FET and stims time I do switch over to redbush. As much as I love it though it's always nice to switch back to Yorkshire tea afterwards. 
Sometimes honesty is what you need with a consultant but it doesn't stop it from hurting. Like you say though you have no regrets and that's important. 
So is the next cycle for you going to be with donor sperm? Xx

MrsC - sorry you've found yourself in this thread  NK cells in the blood are pretty irrelevant to ivf, you need the nk womb biopsy. The bloods can be quite inaccurate as in you could have high bloods but low NKC in the womb or vice Versa. Can you confirm it with a biopsy? Xx 


Is anyone watching corrie at the moment? 
The Toyah storyline is hitting me hard. 

Hope you all have a lovely Sunday!!


----------



## Carrie88

Ooooh I forgot to say as well our ERA test came back as receptive  xx


----------



## Fertilityhawk

Hello ladies

Sorry I haven't been on for a while.  I'm going to catch up in a couple of hours properly.

Just wondered if any of you ladies have had the Karyotype test?  This is really the only thing being offered to us to test before either doing another round with OE or moving onto DE.  It's a lot of money for the test (around £500), if it comes back as positive, ie there is a problem with my chromosones we will move onto DE, but if it comes back negative we'll have one more go with OE.

Thank you xxx


----------



## K jade

Carrie no I haven’t seen corrie for years. what’s the story? I do remember when that actress Michele keegan played was  a surrogate for that couple a few years back. Yes this 2ww is ridiculous. Feels so pointless too. I was all about to give up on the progesterone last night . I’m supposed to take it until OTD on Friday! What a joke. Great news on your ERA. Another thing crossed off there. I defiantly think you’ve cracked something regarding your progesterone level / insulin/ metformin. 


fertilityhawk I have heard of karyotype but haven’t had it myself. Id say do it. Particularly if you are still in 2 minds about OE or DE. It will help your decision there.  £500 is a lot but it could buy you peace of mind in the grand scheme of things


god I had a really meltdown last night. Dh was complaining of a sore finger and that he has a mole which looks funny. I decided then and there that its cancer. I started balling my eyes out and cried myself to sleep. Didn’t want DH to see  I was crying so as not to worry him  I just lay the other way, trying to breathe through snot and tears! He went to the GP today. The mole isn’t a mole its an abrasion. And as for the finger its broken! Hell need an x ray. 
. Talk about over reaction on my part lol

Hope everyone had a lovely weekend
xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Hi Fertility hawk - yes we've had the karotype. We've literally had every test haha!! 

KJade - toyah is on like her 4th failed transfer. The clinic are refusing to let her transfer anymore so they've said she needs a surrogate. 

Have you tested yet?? 
Yes I also think I've cracked it with the progesterone/metformin thing!! Defo.

Aww bless you. I'd be totally the same
My DH went the doctors last week cos he's got a lump in his leg.
I'm panicking cos his mum, aunt, cousin, grandparents have either had or died from cancer.
I'm praying it's just one of his neurofibromotosis lumps growing from the inside but we won't know till the scan.


----------



## Carrie88

KJade - do you know why Coventry make you wait 2 cycles before your nkc biopsy?
Is it just to make sure your body has returned to normal and is ovulating? Xx
And


----------



## K jade

ooooohhh carrie im not actually sure. I only had the one myself. possible due to making sure your lining is 'back to normal'? I can only guess. 
I had a good old google of 'toyah coronation street' how sad. glad they actually cover these things in soaps. 
im sorry about your DH, I will keep everything crossed that all is well for his scan. you certainly have a lot on at the moment bless you
xxx


*****well this is going well. Ive started spotting today. 13piui so I think its af on the way. cannot believe im spotting through PIO injections! also never spotted this early before. another one bites the dust eh!*****


----------



## K jade

Well that's that then. Bfn for me. It is a day early but I needed to take painkillers cause I woke up with severe peroid pain, which has gradually been building for days.  Also I'm 15dpiui as my clinic like to give u 16 day waits for some reason. so I went ahead and tested 
I'm OK about it tbh. Gonna drink ten cups of tea and ten cups of coffee then eat my body weight in chocolate over the course of the day.


----------



## Fertilityhawk

Oh Kjade I'm so sorry, sending you massive hugs    it never gets better or easier does it.  Go for it with the tea, coffee & chocolate.  If it was me I'd be throwing in a massive G&T as well.  

This might sound like a strange thing to say, but when I'm feeling sad I put on my most favourite feel good film.  At the moment its a film called Pride, if you haven't already seen it then I really recommend it.  I get my chocolate, crisps, G&T and settled on the sofa with the dog & the blanket and lose myself.  I laugh and cry in equal measure.

xxxxx


----------



## Northern

Oh no Kjade, I'm so sorry    I know you were expecting it but it's still a blow.  Overdose on coffee, tea and chocolate and definitely a large glass (or bottle) of wine as well.  I like Fertilityhawk's suggestion, there's something about being wrapped up in a blanket which is very comforting (I've never seen Pride, will look out for it). 

I know you've got next steps all planned which is good, take your time and look after yourself, sending you hugs   xxx


----------



## K jade

thanks so much ladies, 
fertilityhawk I like your idea a lot. 
the come down from a BN is always awful. its a combination of the meds wearing off and the disappointment. 
I'm so glad I started this thread, its made the lonely journey of being a bfn'er a bit  less so. All other threads I was previously on have moved on as everyone has their babies now.
just me left. 
moving forwards im starting to really question things a bit more though. I know this was only iui but I have started to really think this is an egg issue. we are going to do our final NHS ivf attempt , then i think i will give DE a go. im OK with that and it feels good to have a plan in place 

hope all you ladies are OK
xxx


----------



## Angedelight

So sorry Kjade.
Even though we're all used to the BFNs it still stings and hurts. I definetely vote a glass of something alcoholic. After my last BFN in May I poured a huge glass of wine at 10am. Hope you've got a couple of days not doing much where you can take it all in. Glad you've got a plan in place to focus on.
X


----------



## Fertilityhawk

Mrs-C I wish there was a LOVE button on here.  Actually laughed out loud when you said you'd poured a glass of wine at 10am    

Whilst it's always gut wrenchingly awful when we get a BFN you do have to get a gallows humour about it all otherwise it would send you over the edge lol


----------



## K jade

LOL absolutely brilliant!!!


I so wish I could enjoy a drink but it just makes my anxiety terrible. but ill stick with the tea. currently on cup number 4 or 5
urgh, this sucks
xx


----------



## Angedelight

We were staying in a lovely cliff side chalet in Cornwall at the time so it made it slightly more acceptable! With regards to gallows humour my words were 'right I can either throw myself off the cliff or get ******!'.
Kjade- I've had really bad anxiety linked to all of this. Infertility impacts on everything. Enjoy your tea.
Xx


----------



## MrsC83

So so sorry k jade. Everything about this process sucks. 
It helps to have a plan but don't forget to look after yourself too 
Xxxxx


----------



## Carrie88

Oh kjade im so sorry to read this 
I know you weren't very optimistic but I had hope.

I know you've got a plan though.
Have you thought about any supplements to help with egg quality? Xx


----------



## Katy_81

Hello ladies

I was wondering if I might join?

Just found out yesterday that our latest FET was a BFN.    This was our 6th attempt. So far we have had 2 x fresh ICSI and 4x FETs which have resulted in 3 biochemicals and 3 BFN.

We still have one embie in storage and another fresh ICSI cycle on the NHS but I am really losing hope that this will ever work for us. 

On paper my fertility is excellent although I had a polyp removed before starting treatment. My DP had hodgkins Lymphona when he was younger but was able to freeze his swimmers before starting chemo. We used this on our first IVF round but on our second round they found a few little fellas in his fresh supply so we used those.  

And now here we are...three years on and nothing to show for the pain and heartache we've been through. I'm not necessarily looking for answers as I know there probably isn't any, just to be with people who understand how it feels to go through multiple cycles without success. xx


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## ladykris

K jade - I love your warrior spirit. Onwards and upwards is the only way I get through this. I have heard from so many ladies that having the next plan in sight really helps. This is all devastating I can imagine. I think if you find nhs not helping and want to see private options - dr Nicopolous at the lister clinic is worth a quick visit. Just to go through your cycles and what the best options percentage wise are ahead. I absolutely love that guy. He's a big statistics man so he will lay everything out and explain in a simple way. DE and own eggs path. At 324 pounds a pop it's not a cheap convo but there you go. He put me on clexane and prednisolone and that's when the implantation stopped failing totally. 
I so understand on the wine and anxiety. But when it's through the roof I tend to pour myself a few and I don't even feel tipsy. What the hell? (Steroids also make you quite energetic). 
I'm doing DE now and I must say it feels hopeful. Banging my head against a new wall! Yay new wall.
K


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## K jade

carrie yeh id been following it start with the egg for this cycle. and popping ubiquonol like there was no tomorrow , drinking  wheatgrass, folate all sorts really. maybe I overdid it   Im thinking of asking my consultant about DHEA possibly when I see her next ..

thanks again for your kind words girls, im actually OK. I managed to eat dinner last night and slept really well. usually after a failed cycle I cant do either. Luckily my DH wasn't too upset as he said he expected it. we're planning a holiday for early sept. 
moving forwards I will need to call the clinic to order more DS and im defiantly trying a new donor. I have also decided to contact Locus Medicus and get a few more immunes done. they are much cheaper than the chicagos but basically the same thing. im going to do the blood cytokine killing power thingy. if they come back clear ive covered all bases with immunes and can fully knock it on the head and face the fact its my eggs which im fully prepared for. 

oh Katie, I just wanna give you a massive hug   that absolutely sucks!
you did the Quenby biopsy around the same time as me am I right?  you poor thing. totally unexplained by the sounds of it, like lots of us here. 
other than quenby have you had anything else looked into?
im right there with you 

ladykris thank you for your kind words. it is true that getting on with the next go does alleviate the heartache of a bfn. suckers for punishment aren't we ! 
I haven't heard of Dr Nicopoulous, but ill look him up. sometimes a second opinion and a fresh pair of eyes makes all the difference doesn't it. 
how are you finding IB? I always thought they looked like a good clinic, Alicante is lovely too
xx


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## Katy_81

K jade - thank you  

I have just read your news also and I'm so sorry.   Yes I did the Quenby biopsy, I remember you from the thread. My results came back normal. Yours did as well is that right?  I'm glad we did the biopsy and endo scratch as at least we catch cross that off the list of things we've tried.  Not tried anything else. DP is a bit skeptical and reluctant to fork out thousands for additional immune testing after the Quenby biopsy came back normal.  We are planning to move clinics though so hopefully that will make the difference. 

A holiday sounds like a great idea, I wish we could do the same but DP has very little holiday left. Good to hear you have a plan aswell to change donor. I think little changes to cycles is the way to go. It gives you that positivity and hope that the little change will make all the difference.  Big hugs hun.   Xx


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## K jade

Katy I am with your regarding stubbon DHs. when my results  came back as normal he said
'well the whole thing was a waste of time then' never mind being happy they are normal. 
so he isn't very positive about any further testing. so hell be really pleased to know im planning on having more done LOL! it'll be paid for by yours truly no doubt as I don't even wanna have that convo with him that I'm planning on sending more pots of blood to a mysterious laboratory  in Athens!
moving clinics is always a good move. it gives you a fresh perspective. where  are you at the moment ? where are you thinking of going? 


oh gosh I'm so stressed.  
called the clinic to give them my result. the nurse sounded quite stony like id just told her someone had died or like it was the worst thing in the world that this hadn't worked , I thought what the hell you should be used to it by now with me, I'm pretty much the veteran at this clinic. you need a forklift truck just to lift my file.  so anyway I ask if I can pick up a donor selection form, as the order can take up to 12 weeks from xytex, and in the past I have always been allowed to do that to prevent delays. 
she called me back to tell me that the donor co ordinator had said NO! I have to wait for my follow up. which could take about 6 weeks! WTF! 6 weeks for a follow up then 12 for DS to arrive in clinic  , so potentially 18 weeks until I cycle again!!
are you being serious?!? also , and I don't know if this is paranoia but I sort of wandered if they are actually going to offer me my final cycle. or whether they will  pull the plug saying im a hopeless cause and that we have exhausted the NHS budget. 
I was calm on the phone but as soon as I got off I called the clinic back. I asked for my consultant but she's on leave. 
I nearly cried. so ive emailed the quality assurance manager. ive said that im a long term patient at the clinic and I cannot be expected to wait 18 weeks for my final cycle its cruel to think I can sit around that long. 
I also said I had chronic anxiety and depression from being in the process so long and my GP is in agreement its taking its toll on me. I haven't had a reply yet!  
if they are seriously making me wait that long then ill have to look elsewhere as that's just ridiculous!
x


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## apples2014

Hi everyone sorry I've been so absent. Really since the chemical in April I've mostly been somewhere else in my head but realised I started posted on here then went all quiet. 

But I am just wanting to send my love to you KJade. It's hard and the blow about your clinic and waiting is so rubbish. When is your coordinator back from holiday ? Sounds like you spoke to a 'computer says no' jobs worth type and I really hope you can get them to change that view. Holiday sounds really good. Lovely in fact. 

Hi everyone else. Hope you okay? Welcome Katy. 

I am back from my 24 hours in Prague. This is embryo transfer number bleep!!!! Trying to stop counting but it's the 5th time of trying donor embryo. Am feeling weirdly calm am off today and just chilling. Here we go again! 

Lots of love Apples xx


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## K jade

It's got to be your time apples. You've been through the mill. I hope you are having a relaxing weekend and the 2ww is being kind. You can do this! 
I got a response from my clinic. It basically said they will contact me early next week about an appointment. Here's hoping it's less than 6 weeks away! 

Mrs-C. Your post on another thread about the locus medicus tests possibly testing for endo?! Is that right? I'm interested, was it difficult to arrange? 

Hope everyone is having a lovely weekend xx


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## Katy_81

K Jade - 18 weeks is a ridiculous time to wait for your next cycle. I can completely see why you would be stressed. Have you had a reply from your clinic yet? Are you NHS funded? I would be seriously contemplating another clinic.  We are moving to another clinic for our last NHS cycle. Saying that, moving could potentially take as long. It's just so frustrating   xx

Thanks for the welcome Apples, and Congratulations on being PUPO! Xx


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## Carrie88

Kjade - 

I so admire your strength, a holiday to look forward to sounds fabulous. Your clinic? Not so much. 18 weeks is ridiculous. I have waited 6 weeks for a follow up for most of ours and it does take the ****!! They don't realise the mental stress this causes.
Good for you for not accepting it.
I also think locus Medicus is a good shout with immune testing. 
What have you been up to this weekend? 

Apples - crossing everything for you, this has to be your lucky embryo!! 




So tonight I've pretty much booked in for a hysterscopy with serum.
I'm going alone as my husband has no leave and I am petrified something will go wrong once I'm put to sleep??


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## K jade

Katy sadly not. I'm in Wales and you dont get any choice as we have two state funded clinics both based within NHS hospitals. The other one is much too far away. They used to allow you to go to London women's clinic with your funding but the govt cottoned on and said it was 'unethical' for the NHS to pay a private business. All a bit communist really! 
Yes they replied, saying they'll get back to me early next week about an appointment. However we've just Last night booked our holiday so what's the betting it's offered slap bang in the middle of when we're away? Quite high knowing my luck.  Sods law. They'll think what a silly cow. Making all this fuss about wanting a quick appointment then turning down the one we offer her! Thing is all I wanna do is complete the ****** donor form!! 
Hope your bearing up hun. 

Carrie wow!!! I'm a bit jealous. No don't worry, I think Nat dragon just got back from hysto there having gone alone. The hospital really look after u. 

Ladies anyone taken dhea? Any thoughts on it? 

Well we booked our holiday last night going for 4 nights in Rome, never been Italy. Can't wait!


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## Angedelight

Hi all

Carrie I've had a hysto in Athens. It was a bit surreal lying on a trolley all trussed up with everyone speaking Greek around me (they talk to you in English when they speak to you). It was one of those WTF moments in this journey!. Afterwards I went back to Serum and watched a DVD of them rooting around in my womb. Another weird moment. You'll be in great hands out there and Athens is lovely. Travel back the day after your hysto if you can- they do them very early in the morning and I went back to bed afterwards until about 4pm. Pain wise was fine. You'll have to go to the hospital for a pre assessment too- ECG-  so give yourself enough time. If you want any other info just ask. I've been to Athens 3 times now.  When are you going?.

KJade- hope your clinic comes up trumps with an earlier appointment. 18 weeks is ridiculous. Once you get to this stage it feels like there's no time to waste- I used to take big breaks between cycles  a while back but now just feel like time is not on our side. We do another cycle next month- that will be the 4th in 18 months! I did the reproductive immunology panel with Locus Medicus. Penny wanted me to test my TFNa but I did the one that included blood NK cells.  Penny said if TFNa was elevated it could possibly indicate endo- the only way to check for sure would be a lap. I investigated this and CGRW (Cardiff/Bristol) do a diagnostic one for £1500 and will remove any endo and the cost for that is an additional £1000-1500 which was better than I expected- not sure where you are based?. The test for TFNa only is the TH1/TH2. You can pay extra for them to sort the courier. I got them to send me the vacutainers and took my own blood with the help of DH (I'm a nurse) and their courier collected the same day and I had the results a few days later. They are really helpful and much cheaper than over here.

Welcome Katy. Sorry you find yourself here.

Hope this is your time Apples. Hope the 2ww isn't too awful. 

LadyKris- we are moving to DE for our next cycle. Same as you I feel a bit hopeful again. I'm currently on steroids- a few people say about them making them feel energetic- I seem to have absolutely no side effects- I'd love some extra energy! 

Hope everyone else is ok and having a nice weekend.

X


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey Carrie

Don't worry you will be fine. It is very geared up over in Athens for speaking English. Mitera is lovely hospital. I went alone and stayed two nights - I arrived Day before surgery for all the pre-op tests and had a chilled day, early night - then got picked up and went to Mitera early the next morning for the op. Op was at 7am and back at the clinic by mid day ish. Don't worry they are a very good hospital. I got insurance for operation through Medical Shield (elective surgery policy) just in case as normal travel insurance doesn't cover you. Worth having even more if travelling alone I felt. Worth staying the night after surgery too - strictly speaking you shouldn't fly 24 hours after having anaesetic - and worth having a few chilled hours and nice sleep before travelling home. The anaesetic I think is pretty low for the hysteroscopy anyway. I had the lap and hyst back in February and that was harder afterwards - just the hysteroscopy was fine. They whisk you into recovery and keep you on oxygen for a good hour and monitor you thoroughly. Trust me I found Mitera far superior than UK hospitals - especially with their skills during operation etc etc. Relax you have made right decision. 

I had a convo on the hysteroscopy thread not so long ago which shows few more details on there but honestly you have nothing to worry about at all going alone. 

KJade.....18 weeks is so long......I don't really understand why the clinics insist on 6 weeks for follow up. I think sometimes they say it gives you time to grieve or whatever after a failed cycle before going in. I appreciate you should give yourself time but we are all different and also knowing in your circumstances there is going to be a wait anyway for donor I think you should be able to go in now for follow up and then just have the donor wait to contend with. I'm not sure whether the wait for donor is normal or not as haven't researched that hun. Good luck with it though. Have a lovely time in Rome too - jealous much!!!

Mrs C - agree with you totally on Athens - good luck with your next cycle 

Hey to everyone else 

Xxx


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## apples2014

Hello 

Carrie just popping on to reassure you as the others have the hysto is honestly okay. I remember being so nervous so I know how you are feeling! But I promise you, you will be okay. 

No one warned me about my boobs being out at the pre op though so wanted to tell you that ha ha! 
You go along for the pre op and it's exactly where serum instruct you. No chance of getting lost. The hospital is very well sign posted and clean and they are very nice people. But for the pre op a lovely nurse calls your name and looks after you. You do a wee if I remember rightly and she takes a blood sample. You then go into a examination room and put a hospital shirt on (you can keep your pants on) but then a doctor comes in and my one for this didn't speak English and pulls up the top to plonk the ECG equipment onto your chest. It's so fast and it was so fine but I didn't realise would have a moment laying on the bed with my boobs out! 

My DH was with me for the hysto but poor guy he was so bored as they don't let the guys through so really I might as well have been on my own. They do speak English to you at the hysto and in fact I had Dr Meredis who works (or might have worked dunno anymore) and he had done my EC at Serum earlier that morning the then he did my hysto and after you get a snack and you are fine to get in a taxi back to serum. Watching the video of your uterus with Penny afterwards is quite surreal but I promise you will be okay. Hope my waffle helps. 

KJade Rome is amaze balls. You are going to love it, it's blinking brilliant! Love Italy so much. 

Big hi to everyone from day 3 of the 2WW - absolutely nothing to report but so far feel calm and well! 
Love Apples xxx


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## Carrie88

Oh I'm so jealous. I'd love to go to Rome and Italy - it's next on my list!! I'm sure you're going to have an amazing time there and something nice to look forward too.

Apples, Nat & Mrs C - thank you so much for replying. I've literally spent all morning arguing with my husband and parents as they don't think it's safe, they say the Greek hospital standards to the NHS are lower, they're worried they're going to do damage to me, there worried something bad is going to happen so I've screen shot and read your messages out to them and I've told them to find me 1 negative post about serum and their hysterscopys and they can't!! I'm going at the end of September  Xx


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## Angedelight

Carrie I think it's understandable they're concerned about medical treatment abroad but they really don't need to be. The hospitals are so clean and efficient and Serum hystos are considered gold standard! I've known of ladies who have had them over here and been told everything is ok to then have a Serum one and issues be found as they are so thorough. Plus they do implantation cuts which last for 6 months. The Drs who do them work with Serum anyway. 

Also if you join the Serum thread for September on here you'll find ladies to meet up with. There's also a ******** group for Serum meet up ladies that you can get added to if you'd like any company whilst your out there. You could even stay in one of Serums apartments- literally next door to the clinic and Serum has their own driver who can collect you- slightly more expensive than the usual cabs but might be reassuring for your family and partner to know.

Have you done the Hidden C testing? Mine was positive which was why Penny recommended a hysto. Luckily my womb was ok, just some small areas of inflammation that they treated.

X


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Carrie

I am one of the ladies that can honestly tell you Mitera is far far superior than UK - I had lap and hyst surgery in UK both privately and NHS and they did not locate and treat issues I had that Mitera found and treated. Also another thing is in the UK they are not so geared up to preserve your fertility - they tend to go in a little butcher like (in my experience) whereas in Athens if it takes hours longer to preserve you more then so be it. I can honestly say I would not trust the UK now for me personally and do not look back. 

I can understand their concerns but if they came withyou they would see themselves how lovely the hospital is. It is a private hospital out there which is a women's hospital. It's lovely and modern and better than private I have attended in U.K.  

Trust your gut instinct and go with what you feel is right for you. 

Good luck for September. 

Xx


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## Carrie88

Thanks ladies.
You've made me feel better - my gut is just telling me it's the right decision and reading your testimonials is proof to me.

Yes I've had the hidden c test and it came back with ureaplasma (which is now cleared).
I had a hysterscopy on the NHS last year and they found scar tissue and uterine adhesions but didn't know why - I think it was cos of the infection.

Also I've read the hystos at Greece can help women's periods.
After my failed transfers my bleed has only lasted 1-2 days, the NHS have told me that's not normal but haven't suggested things to fix it.

Amazingly my kind friend has offered to take 2 days annual leave and will join me so I'm not alone xx


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## K jade

carrie im glad you have a friend to go with you
well done for standing your ground. it so hard with people who are not ofay with fertility treatment. they just assume the UK must be the best place for everything. little do they know we really lag behind places like Czech, Greece and Spain.

MrS-C thanks for that info . Im going to try and get tnfa test and KIR receptors done with locus medicus. 

Well i've heard back from the clinic and I'm in major stress mode  
they cannot see me for a donor selection appointment until .... September 28th. DS then takes eight week minimum to arrive in clinic. I Cannot complete a donor selection form without the appointment despite having done it four times before. 
so no treatment until after x mas which I just cannot bear having been ttc for six long years. 
so I have two options . do a private cycle probably abroad. 
or see if my nhs clinic will allow me to order DS and pay xyetx to cut the delay. 

ladies cycling in Czech with OE. how much money is everything coming to roughly? is the saving significant compared to UK?
x


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## Katy_81

K jade - that's so frustrating! I would keep on at them. I've found in the past that nagging tends to get results. Just explain to them that you really can't wait that long. Maybe they'll get a cancellation and be able to squeeze you in?  Or you could go down the private route although I suppose it's a question of funding. If I had the money I know I would go private in a flash.  X

I spoke to the clinic the other day and they have agreed to let me try a natural FET cycle. Not sure if it will make a difference but glad we are trying something different. Does anyone have any experience with taking low dose aspirin as part of their protocol?  I was thinking of giving it a try in case I have a clotting issue?  Clinic won't send me for testing unless had three miscarriages


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## K jade

they said if a cancellation comes up ill be first to know, but then said that they rarely do in all honesty. 
I just feel so impotent in this process, I really don't see why they cant just give me the form. I've emailed the donor nurse directly now to basically ask her if she can just slip it to me on the quiet. I'm also waiting for the co coordinator to get back to me on whether I can go to xytex myself directly.  I cannot wait until January it feels like a lifetime away

katy that's good news on the natural FET, I wouldn't mind trying it myself as I always have the feeling the drugs interfere with receptivity. I did do aspirin with my last cycle , but I'm not sure why as I don't have clotting issues as was tested for these . maybe its just a good all-round thing to take to increase circulation 
xx


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## Northern

Kjade how frustrating! Honestly all the waiting with ivf just does my head in   We're OE in Czech, total for a full cycle (inc flights, hotel etc) is around £4000. For us it was a pretty big saving as we need icsi due to having a tesa sperm cycle, which is an extra £1000 at most UK clinics, but is included in basic cycle costs at Gennet. Donor sperm is only €150 - though there's the extra issue to weigh up that donation is completely anonymous over there so you get very little info. Let me know or pm if you want any other info!x 

Katy I've had low dose aspirin, doctor said worth a go and if it's such a low dose it won't do any harm either way. I thought may help as I do have pretty poor circulation - obviously didn't make the magic difference but I may try it again. Good that they're letting you try natural FET, I def think fewer drugs is better on the body so definitely worth a go! 

Hi to apples, hope tww is ok so far xxx


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## Katy_81

Thanks Northern and K Jade. I might give it a go. Can't harm I suppose. 

I hope I'm not being too nosey here but was just wondering what everyone's fertility issues were on this thread? I.e unexplained, MF etc. We are male factor and doing icsi although I suspect I have unexplained issues also.


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## K jade

Northern thanks. That's a fair wack cheaper than UK. Still not decided what to do... Have just bugged every member of staff at the clinic to basically allow me to have the donor form, all to no avail
Eurgh.... Beaurocracy 

Katy very good question 
With us completely categoric male infertility. Absolutely no chance of a bio child naturally or with ivf as dh literally hasn't even got one sperm. 
Elliminate that issue and use DS. What are we left with. Totally unexplained female infertility 
Don't u just love it LOL xx


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## MrsC83

We're unexplained, although I have a very retroverted uterus that has made embryo transfers difficult, which a second consultant thinks is the ivf failure problem. Doesn't explain the years of TTC before that though!

K jade, what a nightmare, you must be so frustrated. All that red tape to go through on top of everything else. Hope you're bearing up. I don't know anything about foreign clinics sorry, we're still at our original NHS one. The wait for appointments is one of the hardest things about all this. We will only manage two cycles this year despite having frozen embryos ready to go, and most of the delay is waiting for appointments.

My AF finally came yesterday so started injections last night for the FET. Scan a week on Saturday to see how it's all going. Looks like my TWW will be right over our wedding anniversary and my birthday, hopefully all worth it but I can't help but assume the worst will happen!

Hope everyone is doing ok xxx


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## ~Bona-Dea~

Hi ladies,
Mind if I join you all? 
A little about me, we've just finished our 4th cycle which ended in our second m/c. We were going to call it a day but can't seem to give up yet, so we've just had a follow up appt and looking to go for another cycle, I'm not sure if I'm insane yet?! 
We have male factor infertility so need icsi, other than pcos I'm supposedly otherwise ok....however due to the outcomes of cycles I'm now having various blood tests etc to test for immune issues, scan appeared to be normal. Makes it harder for me as if I knew what was wrong With me to cause lack of success then I would have something to blame,right?! 
So we're limping on, interesting to read about thoughts of going abroad as I'm currently researching clinics in Spain and Czech and not having a clue where to start and was wondering if it was cheaper when adding in all the costs of flights/hotels etc, lovely to read such positive stories. 

Have only read back a couple of pages so will read more and catch up with you all 
Look forward to chatting with you all
Xxx
Ps....sorry for the ' me ' post!


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## Katy_81

Thanks for sharing ladies. Xx

The icing on the cake today. Two of my work colleagues babies arrived this week days after my BFN. Of course I'm happy for them but talk about timing.  

Welcome Bona~Dea. I'm sorry to hear about your cycles. I can't help you with clinics abroad but I'm sure some of the ladies on here will have first hand experience.  Were you NHS funded?  I'm totally with you on wanting to know what the cause is.  As we are MF my DP is convinced it's his swimmers as he said the odds that I have fertility problems as well as him are slim.  I'm not convinced though...  When are you hoping to start a new cycle? X


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hi!

Katy......I totally feel your pain - within a couple of weeks of our last cycle not working (not only having my sister in law pregnant already) my work colleague announced she is pregnant with her second (unexpected pregnancy!).......cant help but naturally by happy - but sometimes feels like someone is trying us ha ha!!

As for me and my DH.......DH sperm has been thoroughly checked inside and out and comes out absolutely fine.......unfortunately appears the whole issue is with me - where do I start (1) blocked tubes removed (2) septum in my uterus (not picked up in the UK) (3) Inflammation in my uterus from toxic fluid from blocked/bulbous tubes remaining after surgery in UK (all remedied during surgery in Athens) (4) High NK Cells and HIgh TNFa (5) small fibroid on the outside and inside of my uterus (again removed from surgery in athens)......think thats it   

Bona Dea - welcome hun......sorry to hear your last cycle which has ended in a miscarriage   - I know probably doesnt feel like it but it is a good sign that you are actually getting pregnant hun......maybe look into other clinics.......since going to Serum in Athens we have geniunely  not looked back at all - they have located and treated many issues which the UK clinics let us down badly on (I would never come back to the UK for fertility treatment).......for us we did a 2 cycle OE package which cost 4,000 euro - then just factor in flights, accomodation and food etc. - still worked out a lot cheaper for us as our UK private cycles was costing around £8,000 each cycle.......we treat our time out in Athens as part holiday too and just find the whole experience so much more relaxing - would go into the clinic for a scan, bloods etc. then the rest of the day was ours to do the whole tourist bit.......love the place, people, most importantly the clinic are fab! Good luck with your search hun xxx

KJade......think it is so wrong.......very naughty of the clinic - however unfortunately I think over here in the UK and especially obviously with the NHS they have specific time guidelines that they have to stick to (even when actually behind the scenes there is probably no need to as such) and more than likely there is no need for you to have to wait 6 weeks for a follow up - but that is what their guidelines state as such.......sometimes though a bit of time out from treatment can be a really good thing - know doesnt feel like it at the time - me and my DH had 2 years out (which sounds like a lifetime) but in that time we had a major refurb of our house etc. etc. and time flew past.......if you have to wait then look into ways to fill the time with fun things, or things you have put off doing etc.......it will fly by........although if not on the other hand if you find a way around it i.e. going privately etc. then good luck with that too hun xxx


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## K jade

Oh Katy and Nat I feel your pain. I'm literally not happy for anyone when they announce a pregnancy  and usually spend the whole time scowling at them from the corner of the room. not  bitter at all me LOL! The problem is I have a very expressive face and literally cannot hide my emotions for love or money , so its extremely obvious to all. Perhaps I need botox

Nat thanks, your so right. You were very brave to take 2 years out. It is important as u otherwise just immerse in this. And can run the risk of ploughing all your finances into it too. I’ve got a few things in the pipeline. I’m running a marathon in October (or rather jog/walking it as I don't do running) got a holiday coming up, doing a course in work to  I have more or  less accepted now it may well be January. I have literally tried it on with every member of staff asking them to just give me the form, to no avail. I am literally their biggest pain in the rear at my clinic    and I’m sure I get mentioned in team meetings all the time  

I met with a friend last night. She hasn’t met anyone, so no kids. She talked about how she had to spend a whole day in a  soft play centre for a friends kids birthday party and how awful it was as a childless women. We both had  a good laugh. 

Welcome bona dea. Sorry you find yourself here with us. My dh has azoo too. getting that  diagnosis was a kick in the teeth to say the least. I'm with you on wanting answers. I have zilch so far. 

Katy sorry but regarding sending you blood sample to LM Athens . what shipping option did you select?  the one that is 65 euros where they say they will arrange to courier it for you, how does that work? will someone come and collect it from me? god you feel like your in the secret service sometimes don't you with all this

KJ xx


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## Angedelight

Hi all

Carrie that's so lovely of your friend to do that for you.

Katy my DH has anti sperm antibodies. We got told I had PCOS but I don't have any of the symptoms nor does any blood work support this! Serum told me I don't have it. I do have an egg quality issue that no one can tell me why this is. I've now come back high for NK cells in blood. Sorry to hear things have been tricky at work- I'm afraid I'm a bit bitter about other people's announcements these days, normally induces rage and tears in the privacy of home!. I'm extremely good at doing the right thing publicly and have developed an amazing pregdar (pregnancy radar!) as a form of self protection. I find pregnancy announcements harder than babies.

Welcome Bona Dea- sorry you find yourself here. I totally get the feeling insane thing. I frequently ask my DH if I even think rationally anymore. I honestly feel like a gambling addict who doesn't know when to stop!. The odds really aren't in my favour!. We cycle at Serum and it's a breath of fresh air compared to the UK- second all that Nat has said.

KJade- sorry to hear your clinic aren't budging. You've definetely tried!!. I sent my sample to LM with courier-DHL came and picked it up and it got there the next day. I've also got a couple of friends who are my age and not in relationships and childless- they say to me I'm so lucky to have my relationship with DH, own a home etc. I do know that but it doesn't make this by better!.

Nat when are you back out to Athens?.

Apples hope the 2ww isn't too awful.

I've just booked my scratch and acquascan for later this month. That will bring the total of lacerating my womb to over £2k! 😂😂

Hi everyone else.

Xx


----------



## miamiamo

*~Bona-Dea~*, yes treatment abroad is much cheaper, we saved a lot. Look at the international threads x


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey Mrs C

Hoping to go back next month for a Natural FET - think will be towards end of September I think. 

The things we do.....I calculated this year alone we have spent just over 5,500 euro on just my womb alone!!!! Had the lap and hyst in Feb and then another hyst in July - hopefully all those pennies spent will be worth it hun. 

Good luck with your Aqua scan and scratch xxx


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Ps. KJade - sounds like you have a good few things to help keep you distracted - I'm a firm believer in certain things being meant at certain times. It's always helped me process why things are happening sometimes. Maybe for you this will give you a chance to have some time away from everything IVF and re-group a bit and also give your body a good rest ready for when you go in to your donor cycle. Gives you a chance to enjoy life a bit and get yourself feeling really positive and ready. Xxx


----------



## K jade

MrsC whats an aqua scan? is it something only serum do. does it tell you about blood flow ? LOl love the pregdar ! mine is absolutely rubbish. I think wow they've been married a while maybe their struggling. then literally one minute later, oh no, as if by magic a baby appears!

Nat well I have to be brutally honest I  haven't been doing too well on that note about taking time out. I'm literally researching all the time what could be wrong from lining issues to more immunes, and right now I believe its something to do with my receptivity(drugs, hormones interfering with receptivity kind of thing ) last night I read a pubmed study about the endometrium. oh yes I really know how to have a good time ha!
at least it was Sunday night rather than Saturday night or that would have been very sad indeed. This morning  DH talked about us having a log trip away when treatment 'finishes' to have a break and re group. of course I started balling immediately as I assume in his mind he thinks we are probably going to give up at some point and has accepted that.  even though in reality his idea is probably a very good one. yeh... job well done so far!


----------



## apples2014

Hi everyone 

Miserable post from me. I've had another chemical and KJade I think I have something funky going on with my lining/ uterus

I've had two hystos, last one was last year and nowt wrong. I've had nk cells in womb and bloods and immunes done too and nothing is wrong. I've had ERa and that was pre receptive so took the extra progesterone as advice by the actual era people at the clinic in Spain (via Gennet my clinic in Prague). I've had all the thrombosis blood clotting stuff checked and I do have the hetro MRFTH mutation, my dad also died suddenly of a massive DVT PE two years ago so I am checked out on this and mine is in check am on extra folic acid (I don't have the one where I need folate instead as am under a blood consultant at local hospital twice a year who checks and I am on 40 units of clexane from day 1 of cycle to keep this all in check)

As mentioned b4 I have conflicting info from Coventry and my clinic via ERa people and when Coventry re checked the receptivity in a natural cycle and in a dummy medicated cycle I was receptive only when NOT on the drugs but told to still do a medicated FET anyway by BOTH as something to do with success rates with a donated embryo and also the timing of a FET abroad. Gennet didn't say they would refuse a natural FET but felt for my case it wouldn't work. Although this was a huge head mess for us as clearly it makes sense to have a natural try! 

This is my 5th donated embryo transfer. I do not have any doubt in my clinics embies and I know he succes rate for a donated embie frozen is 65/70 per cent but 5 times. This is also my 9th 2WW and this is my 2nd chemical in a row

What am I going to do?

I did a wee on a stick on Saturday which was day 9 using a first response there was a second line quite faint as day 9 but very clearly a line. I did a wee on a stick yesterday, day 10 and it was fainter and I did another one this morning and it's gone. Very cruelly in April the exact same thing happened, there say 9, fading by day 10 gone by day 11 and a hcg of 2. 

I've booked a 8am blood test tomorrow so I can officially stop drugs and then will contact clinic but took everything today but really didn't want to but it's such a clear negative now but will go for blood tomorrow. 

Not very emotional as yet. I feel worried and angry and mostly numb!

My next cycle is free as they had a deal that if you do not fall pregnant by the 2nd try the no next is free so this was my 5th so back to the freebie one again. 

I've had 5 donated embies I've tried double transfer and was a bfn. I tried double transfer and was a chemical. I had a double transfer was a bfn. I had a single transfer was a chemical now this one is a single transfer and it's another chemical. 

What am I going to do? I am so scared now! 

Sorry for me post I really don't normally only talk about myself!

KJade what have you been reading about lovely? I am very lost. 

If anyone have any thoughts I am literally all ears!! 

If anyone reads this and has any insight please let me know. 

Should I have a chat with another clinic about natural FET and then discuss that with Gennet! 

Arrrraugh! 

Apples xxx


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## K jade

Apples massive hugs to you hun
I was awaiting your update and am so sad and upset for u
Your poor body is doing its upmost to become pregnant and something is stopping it. And I just wanna send a giant torpedo through it for u, whatever it is! 
U have clear documented evidence that the drugs are shutting down your receptors 
You must insist on a natural fet. It doesn't matter on their success rates and what works for other peeps. It's about what works for YOU 
us RIF Ladies are special cases, we can't just be treated the same as other patients. Get onto gennet and send them your ERA results. Put it all in writing. If not already 
Au natural is what u need I'm pretty sure of it 
Grrrr really rooting for u hun 
PS did u stand any hope of natural conception with your DH? Or are his Fertility issues too severe? 
Cause if your only shots at ttc have been via treatment them this could basically explain all your failures. 
You may have to sack gennet off if they are not listening to u and try penny again


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## Carrie88

Hey ladies!! Sorry I've not checked in, still working 60 hour weeks and busy on weekends so missed a few pages. 

Katy81 - I took aspirin with my last transfer. It can't harm even if you don't need it so I say go for it  we're doing PGD as my husband has a genetic condition we don't wish to pass on, neurofibromotosis type 1 which is 50:50 pass on rate. 

MrsC & Nat1dragonfly - you guys sharing how much you've spent on your womb is totally making me feel better about how much we've spent on mine haha!! Hope everything goes ok xx 

KJade - what's going on with you? Any further with the donor forms? Sounds like you're having to jump through hoops, what a nightmare! I agree, I wouldn't be prepared to wait that long either. It's awful when you start googling all the tests - have you decided to proceed with the era? I think a nice weekend away sounds good. I also fear my husband pulling the plug on it, especially as it's his inheritance we are using xx 

Apples2014 - I'm so sorry Hun  sometimes there's no words. I would definetly push for a natural FET. 100%. Have you done the DQ alpha test? kIR test? You're such a strong lady, I can't believe you've gone through so many 2ww xx


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey KJade

Aquascan......is basically an internal scan but they pump the saline solution up inside you whilst scanning you......it is meant to be a more thorough scan which can detect more clearly issues with tubes, fibroids, uterus cavity in general including any septum etc. etc.......

ha ha!!! I feel your pain - know exactly where your at......there is no need to stop totally thinking about treatment - can still research and get things in place - no point in say totally switching off and then the donor cycle coming round and you panicking that you havent dealt with things you wanted to i.e. any pre-treatment bits and pieces you want to do with your diet, medication or whatever - good to still be prepared ready for your donor cycle (and helps sometimes too to keep your finger in the pie so to speak).......but a break away and distractions will be good.......enjoy the time together as hopefully as too soon you wont have much just "you two" time as there will be another little person taking up your time......

Apples - welcome to the thread hun   ditto what the ladies have said before my post........I have been advised by Serum in Athens this time to try a Natural FET and I trust them whole heartedly what they know what they are talking about......good thing with Serum is they do treat you as total individuals rather than alot of UK clinics are very much about what has worked for the other patients and putting that into practice on you as a couple - rather than looking as you both as complete individuals and doing what may work for you.......good luck with it - but be assertive if you feel something isnt right......

xxx


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## K jade

carrie no hun. ive hit a wall and have basically accepted I wont be able to do them till my donor appointment on the 28th sept.  unless my consultant allows me to do them at my review on the 14th sept.  which would be better. here's hoping!
as for receptivity, well I have a pretty big hunch that's its my issue to be honest. 
I actually don't even know if the ERA would help me, as I have a pretty nagging suspicion that the drugs are completely throwing my natural cycle into disarray and switching off my receptivity completely. so I probably have NO receptivity rather than just a displaced window. sound totally bonkers! probably. however like a mad woman I'm running with it. im going to ask my consultant about the chance of a natural FET at some point. if im lucky enough to get frosties. I'm also considering AI too as another way of ttc without any drug stimulation. that's my plan. 60 hour week ouch hun, you must be knackered. 


ooo apples was thinking, one last thing. have you ever had potential tubal blockages or ever had HSG to check this? the only other thing I can think of is tubal issues as I know if your tubes are knackered they can be a absolute nightmare in interfering with implantation .
u may have already have this covered.


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## Aley

K Jade, I've send you a pm. 

Hi to everyone, hope you're all good or as best as someone can be.


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## Hbenj

Hi. 
I’m in a same sex relationship and have been trying to get pregnant with inter-uterine artificial insemination – (IUI), with no fertility enhancement medication/ injections, just the injection to release egg for timing of IUI. I’ve had 4 attempts, and 4 chemical pregnancies / failed implantations in the last 7 months. The symptoms / pattern is identical each time:
*fairly moderate implantation cramps (like a constant stitch), on day 9 and sometimes also day 10 post insemination. Often have had headaches too. I don’t get mid-cycle cramps, this is definitely attempted implantation. The cramps are always on the lower right side, and 3 times the egg was from right ovary, but once it was left. 
*Day 11/12 post IUI – no symptoms. Twice I’ve felt utterly floored on this day, and was convinced pregnancy was starting. 
*Day 12/13 post IUI – menstrual cramps and bleeding start. On the first attempt, I did a pee stick test at this time and got a positive test, but menstruation started later same day. On the other attempts I haven't bothered with pee stick as I wanted to wait a few days more. But, I'm convinced fertilisation is successful each time, and that implantation lasts only 1-2 days.

After the 1st attempt I did a wide range of blood tests. I have factor v lieden (blood clotting), and have been on aspirin since. All other blood tests clear. I also take wide range of supplements / high dose vitamins / folic acid. After the 3rd attempt I had an HSG – 100% all clear. My right ovary is polycystic (PCO but not PCOS), my left is not. I wondered if the failed implementation was to do with the PCO having poorer quality eggs, but the exact same thing has happened in the attempt when an egg was released from left ovary.  I’m 36 and surely egg quality can’t have deteriorated so far. The rejected implantation is always the same timing, which makes me think it’s more to do with uterus / blood flow / some implantation issue.  My doctor has called it ‘unexplained infertility’ and thinks IVF will help select best eggs. I am scared that IVF will do nothing and my body will reject the embryo in exactly the same pattern as above. Any thoughts / advice anyone has would be really appreciated.


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## K jade

hi hbenj
sorry to hear about your repeated chemicals .
I disagree with the Dr about IVF. If  each time eggs are fertilising then making every effort  to implant but failing , IVF will not overcome this. 
if factor V has been identified then possibly a stronger medication like Clexane could help you and lead to successful implantation. 
what other blood tests have you had? have you been referred to a recurrent pregnancy loss clinic?
KJ
XX


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## Hbenj

Hi KJade, 
Thanks, I agree it seems more like uterus than eggs... I just don’t know what given the all-clear HSG. I was told aspirin would have same effect, but good point I’ll ask about clexane. My blood test sheet says: “test required: inherited thrombotic, lupus anticoagulants, BHCG Quant, PCR-MTHFR mutation”. I’m in South Africa, there’s no ‘NHS’, so I’m already seeing a Dr at a private fertility clinic (the one who suggests IVF).  Just don’t know what to do next. 
Reading some of the other posts, some of you have been trying way longer and gone through a lot more than my 4 IUI attempts.... how do you keep going? I feel pretty crushed already.


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## Angedelight

Apples so sorry for your result. You've really been through it and sounds like you've covered lots of avenues. I hope you are OK. Are you using own sperm?.

HBenj- sorry you find yourself here.
I have no idea how I keep going. When I think rationally I wonder why I do!. Definetely don't think being able to keep going is a positive. Knowing when to stop is. We've said the next go is the last and that's pretty scary.

Literally have no respite from it all at the moment. Had mad barren dreams last night about being the only childless person and outcast by everyone 😂😂

I bought that Dr Beer book 'is your body baby friendly?' the other day. That's probably worth a read if you haven't already for anyone on this thread. DH wasn't particularly impressed and has since hidden it as he doesn't think it's very helpful for me to be reading so much (does he not know infertility is a second full time job?!). In all honestly I went from thinking how on earth does anyone get pregnant to thinking how on earth does anyone have a baby, so I see his point!. But good for reference and being aware of issues.

Hope everyone else is doing ok and you have nice bank holiday plans. 

Xx


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## Northern

Hahaha Mrs C I couldn't agree more!


> infertility is a second full time job?!


I honestly feel I should be awarded a second degree after all this! BA/MIVF has a nice ring to it don't you think? (Bachelor of Arts, Master of IVF obvs  )

I haven't read that book but may look it up. Have you tried Marisa Peer, 'Trying to Get Pregnant (and Succeeding)' I found it very helpful for positive mindset.

Hbenj sorry you're in this position. I can only say that I've no idea how we keep going, I guess there's just no other choice if you're not ready to give up (which as Mrs-C says is a brave step in itself). I've certainly been tested through all this and realised I'm stronger than I thought, though I get sick of having to dig down for extra strength sometimes! There are days where it gets you down for no reason, but generally you just keep ploughing on. I'm afraid I can't help you as never had iui - what's the normal success rate for it do you know? How do your results compare to what your doctor would expect?

I've just had my draft protocol through from clinic - has anyone heard of either puregon or orgalutran? Quite pleased to see new things on there but not sure why they've been prescribed or if I'll be able to get hold of them easily, anyone know?

Xx


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## K jade

hbenj I agree with the ladies, get a copy of 'is your body baby friendly' it really equips you with so much information and I do find in this game knowledge is power. Drs can only  tell you so much. and some are better than others. most of us find ourselves doing our own research and being our own advocates. 
are you someone prone to allergies or do you have any autoimmune conditions? have u had your thyroid checked.  as it can mean lots of antibodies flying around your body unhelpful to some people in terms of getting or staying pregnant. steroids and suppressants are usually used here to bring levels  down to normal and allow your body to sustain a pregnancy. 
as for how we keep going? craziness with a good dose of determination thrown in!

northern o wow. nope never heard of those. one of them sounds like an orange monkey that lives in the rainforest!

mrsC ha ha I second that . I could do a phd in this stuff by now I think 

ladies my testing kit arrived yesterday form locus medicus. the box was completely indiscreet and had 'LOCUS MEDICUS' 'THE HIDDEN CLAMYDIA TEST' and 'FERTILITY TESTING KIT' randomly written all over the box for all to see. 
DHL left it was my neighbours , who's face was a picture when I collected it.   . I think i'll feed back to them in a friendly way that they should perhaps consider having plain packaging. 
oh and donor issues seems to be sorted. I can do it at my review with the consultant on the 14th Sept. so that's better at least. although I do have a niggle that they may tell me im a lost cause and the NHS wont pay for any more treatment, but ill put that to the back of my mind.  
xx


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## Carrie88

Kjade - I defo think you should push for a natural. Now I'm ovulating (thanks to metformin) I'm even debating asking for a natural fet. Hahaha ohymgod locus!! What's this testing for now chick? Good luck for your app on the 14th, only 2 weeks to go xx

Mrs C - I've never read it but I've done every test in there I think. I have a good understanding of it and I needed it as dr Gorgy uses it and just presumes everyone knows everything that's in there lol xx 

Northern - never heard of either of those!! What are they for? Xx

Hbenj - sorry you find yourself in here. I'm not sure how I keep going. I'm sort of just numb and on auto pilot. I'm so far into this process now I can't stop xx


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## K jade

Carrie I'm doing KIR receptors and TH1/2 Ratio. 

U had the KIR test am I right,? Will u be adding neupogen next time? I wander what my KIRs will be. If they are skewed or missing I guess I'll try getting hold of neupogen too. From where I'm not sure thou.. 
Fantastic news about ovulation! U really cracked something there. 
I really hope all women with insulin resistance now know about metformin as I think that could explain implantation failure in a lot of cases if it interferes with progesterone. 

Hope everyone else is OK. I'm currently in beautiful Rome. Been to a fair few holy places, lit  alot of candles, threw pennies in fountains, basically anything in my power to get the curse of infertility lifted! Why not eh, have pretty much tried everything else ha!


----------



## Carrie88

Hey 

Yes I did. I'm missing all 3 so need to add neupogen. 
I think your th1/th2 will be ok especially as your nkc are low as the two are usually linked but defo worth a test to cross it all off.
Have you sent your blood off yet? 

Thanks chick I think so too!! 

Ahh I can't believe your Rome trip has come around already.
I hope you're having an amazing time and eating lots of pizza. 
Haha I would do exactly the same, wish on everything and anything xx


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## K jade

Not yet, my bloods appointment is on the 13th then the courier will collect it that day and take it to Greece. 
I'm looking forward to knowing what the results are.. Sounds weird I know. But if they're normal I can safely tick off immunes. If something shows up then I will also have some answers.

That's really good you'll be having neupogen. I read a study that said neupogen doubled implantation in women with missing KIRs, it's quite an exciting drug. 

Back from beautiful rome now, but alls not lost as we're going to Pembrokeshire for another week with the dog. Will be happy to have my furbaby with me this time.

Xx


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## apples2014

Sorry been very miserable here I am though! 
Kjade I just really laughed how embarrassing with the box and the neighbours. Funny! 

Enjoy Rome scoff lots of pizza for me! And ice cream and wine ha ha 

Big hi to everyone else. 

Kjade when you back or posting next can you Tell me about KIR receptors what is this? I feel I should know or look into this perhaps!

Carrie lovely can you tell me anything about natural FET I am so lost at the moment. What does it involve? I have a follow with my clinic on Skype on 12th sept and my head is really foggy!

So since the chemical I've arrange a follow up Skype with Gennet for 12th sept and asked to go back on the waiting list for donated embryo. It's my 6th try of donor embryos and it's free as they have a deal if you not pregnant by second try third try is free so I am back to a free try. 
As I said before Prof Brosen's has re tested my ERA and I am NOT receptive in a dummy medicated FET cycle like my ERA and Gennet protocol that I take b4 embryo transfer. 
But on the biopsies taken on three other occasions on different dates in my cycle AFTER ovulation and NOT taking any medication I AM receptive so it seems obvious to me that I should try a natural FET. 

But Gennet didn't love this research data and the findings and stated that medicated FET has much higher success rate so we listened to them and just had a heartbreaking chemical. Out of 5 embryo transfers for top grade donated embryos I've had 3 chemicals now. 

But I recall Prof Brosen's saying that if non receptive the uterus is a hostile environment and the most perfect best embies in the world can't make it in there!!

So I've been feeling very sad. 

I've emailed another very good clinic who like Gennet have high success rates with donor and I've had a reply to say they will be in touch next week with how they would treat me so that's great that I am getting a second opinion. 
I've also emailed Coventry Prof Brosen's who is amazing and is getting the secretary to email me next week with all the data and the days of my cycle when they took the biopsies so I can have this evidence ready for my follow up consult on 12th Sept. 

Any one have any other ideas? Am very open ! And grateful! 

I've had two hystos and both all clear. 
I've had hidden c and all that done. I am negative for hidden c but we was evidence of some baterica load (sounds terrible) but the advice is a week of anti b's before transfer and this is common for women who've had a lot of treatment! 
I've had NK cells in uterus tested many times this is all okay 
I've had blood immunes taken and all was in order nothing out of range no immunes 
I do have the hetro MRFTH blood thromb mututaion though but I've been under hospital consultant and it's in check and I just have to take 40 units of ckexane and am on prescription strength folic acid 

My lining on day 10 for the FET is always 8 something and triple! 

But none of this matters if what ever reason I am not receptive in my uterus ah!     

So am back to limbo limbo limbo. 

Love Apples xx


----------



## K jade

Apples good to see you have a plan 

Regarding KIR receptors, in all honesty I don't fully understand what they are. Sounds daft that I'm spending 180 quid on being tested for them lol. Basically, from what I've gathered, the top immunies say that having certain KIRs missing can cause recurrent-failure or misscarriage. An American study revealed that for these women taking neupogen or Gcsf as it's otherwise known doubled implantation. I thought why not as if there's a clear drug that can help with this then it's worth it 

In terms of blood immunes, who did your tests? Which ones did u have done? Thyroid? Is your tsh all OK? 

I'm really glad professor B is on board and gonna fight your corner. I'm a little disappointed with gennet as the are clearly not listening to u. You don't give two hoots about THEIR success rates and what works for other people. Well I wouldn't. It's about what works for u! 
Your right putting an embie in a un receptive uterus is as good as putting it in the fridge. It's not gonna do anything. I understand thou that you wanna take your free go as would I. Get yourself that supporting letter from Mr B and be very demanding. Their was a lady on ff recently who had 6 failures, tried everything including ivg which she didn't need. Then fought for a natural FET and got twins on her seventh go. I'm convinced endo receptivity is an issue for many women as the drugs muck us up, 
If I were u I'd do a scratch beforehand too.. 
U can do it!! 
Xx


----------



## Chez2k

Hello,

Please can I join the chat?? I've been lingering for a while and then decided that I would read all of the posts right from the start. I have just spent the last 4 hours reading through all the posts and making notes of all the different tests, investigations, etc that have been mentioned. I've got a lot of researching and reading to do. It has made me realise that there is so much I haven't got a clue about!

First I just want to say WOW ... you ladies are all amazing. xxx

So... my journey (and apologies this is a bit of a me post to start with but hoping people could help/suggest where to start as I'm loosing the plot!!??  )

We have been trying for baby number 2 for nearly 4 1/2 years with no joy at all. We have had 6 x rounds of clomid (just to give it a chance!), 2 failed fresh cycles (1 with single embryo 4aa and 1 with 2 embryos stage 1 and stage 2 blasts (not sure exactly what this grading means but that's what they told us)) and a failed FET. The last cycle which ended this week was an egg sharing cycle which is a bit bitter sweet but it meant that we had another shot at it sooner than expected.

We do have a miracle baby (who is now 5) who was conceived naturally after 2.5 years of trying. She was conceived the month before I was due to start my NHS IVF. We know have had 3 x failed implantations 

We have male issues - Significant number of anti-sperm antibodies, good count, ok morphology and motility that seems to fluctuate. Due to this we have had ICSI on our IVF cycles. 
[/size]I have polycystic ovaries but not PCOS. My AMH is good, AFC good and have had multiple scans and an HSG all of which were ok. I do have a tiny fibroid on the outside of my uterus which I have been told won't affect anything because of it's position. 
When I had my progesterone checked with the first IVF cycle it was fine but not had it checked since then and this failed cycle I started bleeding 7dp5dt so not sure if this is an issue.

This cycle I also had endometrial scratch and embryo glue for the first time and I praying that it would make a difference. Due to the cycle being an egg sharing cycle I also had karyotyping done as part of the screening so this has ruled out a lot of hereditary stuff.

The first fresh cycle we got 10 mature eggs and 6 fertilised but only 2 were suitable for transfer/freeze. The second fresh cycle we got 17 mature eggs which were then shared out and we kept 9. Of these 9 5 fertilised and again 2 were suitable for transfer. Don't know if this is a good fertilisation number of if this is also an issue?

We have a follow-up appointment arranged for 5th October and in the meantime I'm going to do a bit of reading and get a list of questions together. I'm convinced that there is something immune going on due to 4 perfectly good embryos just doing nothing. 
I've noticed that a lot of you have done test with the Locus Medicus and have had a quick nosey at their website but ..... where to begin!!? I would appreciate any suggestions xxxx[size=78%]


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## K jade

Chez2k welcome 
Sorry u find yourself here and on the repeated failure train. It really sucks  
I know the utter confusion and despair u feel when u have great embies put back and they just do nothing. I literally wish I could have a camera installed there to find out what's going on! 
Regarding immunes... It's a difficult one 
I think many of us jump on the immunes train after repeated ivf failures (including me!) but as I learn more on this journey I'm starting to wander if it's really the answer after all. 
You've got pregnant before (without immune meds) I'm assuming, and it's been identified your DP has been sperm issues. I'm not too clued up on male factor but have u tried anything to improve his sperm such as proxeed, or visiting Mr Ramsey? There's also something called the sperm improvement protocol run by penny at serum.. I'm not sure if u need to be a patient of hers or whether u can do it via long distance.. There are some serum ladies on here perhaps they can advise u.. 
Whilst I do believe in immune treatment, I'm starting to learn that by far the biggest factor in implantation is the embryo quality. And whilst they can look great under the microscope, often they are chromosially abnormal. Sometimes it's simply a case of perseverance until you get that golden one. Frustrating I know 
That being said there's no harm in having some immune tests  done. Have u had things like thyroid and blood count? What about clotting? Gp should be able to do them for free..


----------



## Chez2k

K jade said:


> Chez2k welcome
> Sorry u find yourself here and on the repeated failure train. It really sucks
> I know the utter confusion and despair u feel when u have great embies put back and they just do nothing. I literally wish I could have a camera installed there to find out what's going on!
> Regarding immunes... It's a difficult one
> I think many of us jump on the immunes train after repeated ivf failures (including me!) but as I learn more on this journey I'm starting to wander if it's really the answer after all.
> You've got pregnant before (without immune meds) I'm assuming, and it's been identified your DP has been sperm issues. I'm not too clued up on male factor but have u tried anything to improve his sperm such as proxeed, or visiting Mr Ramsey? There's also something called the sperm improvement protocol run by penny at serum.. I'm not sure if u need to be a patient of hers or whether u can do it via long distance.. There are some serum ladies on here perhaps they can advise u..
> Whilst I do believe in immune treatment, I'm starting to learn that by far the biggest factor in implantation is the embryo quality. And whilst they can look great under the microscope, often they are chromosially abnormal. Sometimes it's simply a case of perseverance until you get that golden one. Frustrating I know
> That being said there's no harm in having some immune tests done. Have u had things like thyroid and blood count? What about clotting? Gp should be able to do them for free..


Hi K Jade,

Thanks for replying and reading my post... it was a long one.

Are you still in Rome? I bet it's beautiful!

A camera to watch the embryo after replacement would be amazing!! I bet that is something we all wish for 

My hubby is taking a bit of a cocktail of stuff - lycopene, vitamin and wellman conception. Since he started these a few years ago his sperm quality has improved loads. Don't know if it's just coincidence! But we'll never know. Unfortunately he has a significant amount of anti-sperm antibodies which won't ever go away. 
Where is Mr Ramsey based??

Serum in Athens sound amazing!! I have filled out the online questionnaire (which took ages) and am not waiting for the first response. Not sure how much they go into from this though?! 
I'll have a nosey around and see if I can find out some info on here about the sperm improvement programmme. Thanks for the tip 

I've had my TSH and Free T4 tested and they were fine but not the anti-thyroid antibodies. As far as I know they took a full blood count just before my last cycle and a load of other stuff due to it being an egg sharing cycle. Will have to ask when I go for follow up.

I'm planning to have a chat with GP to find out what bloods they are happy to do for me and also if they would be happy to refer me for a hysteroscopy (this but might be the tricky bit).

Xxx


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## K jade

Hi chez, Im back from Rome now, (was absolutely beautiful), but this week I'm off work and in sunny west Wales, although not too sunny today sadly 

I don't know a lot about anti bodies to sperm, but is there definitely nothing that can supress these? Sorry I'm not too clued up regarding MFI 
Mr Ramsey runs a Windsor based clinic, most Saturdays. I'd recommend him. Myself and dh saw him many years ago when we first started out. Youll see in my history it was male factor which initially was the problem. Things turned on their head for me as it's now unexplained female factor!  
He's a wonderful urologist and pioneer in male infertility. He's helped so many couples who have literally zero sperm count. So if he can help them he can definitely help u! 
Otherwise Serum sperm improvement protocol may be good for u. 
I know u mentioned a big load of vits that have really helped your hubby, but, I hear great things about proxeed.... Maybe worth a shot. 

Ladies I'm getting a bit frustrated with locus medicus. Very slow on the emails. I need them to confirm that their courier can collect my blood from the phlebotomy place Monday.. So far they're not being very prompt to reply


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## ladykris

Chez2k- I want to jump in the proxeed praise bandwagon. My guy took it for 6 months and the difference was amazing. If only our eggs could do that!! After he stopped it did go back down. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Angedelight

Hi all

How are we doing?

Apples glad you have a plan and a second opinion. It really sounds like you've covered a lot of bases with all your testing. Good luck with your follow up.

K-Jade hope Rome was amazing and that you had a lovely break.

Hi Chez. That's amazing you got pg naturally with anti sperm antibodies! What % does your DH have? My DH had about 97% when first tested then 85% when tested last year. The annoying thing is we don't know why he has then, no vasectomy reversal, no memorable trauma to the groin, he had mumps but doesn't everyone?!. He's currently doing the sperm improvement protocol with Serum which is 100mg doxy, Vit C and Vit E and he's been on 10mg prednisolone a day too. Hopefully it's all done something as it's all down to him now as moving to DE. Did you hear back from Serum?.

Northern thanks for the book recommendation, I definetely need some positivity. I've used orgulatran before in the UK.

Hi everyone else, hope you are all doing ok.

Carrie hope you are doing OK, sounds like you are ticking lots of stuff off. I'd welcome your input on my situation any thing you think I should do....

Long post alert.

So on day 21 I jabbed myself in the backside with Prostap which is a down reg drug used for DE cycles. I had my scratch and acquascan 2 days later. A few days before when DH was out I literally read the whole of Dr Beers book and made some notes. When I went for the scratch and acquascan I asked them to test my thyroid as it was last done 2 years ago and was 2.0 but I read that high NK cells in blood can impact on it. Aside from that the scratch was awful, she couldn't get my cervix to play ball and nicked me inside with the catheter causing a lot of bleeding. The scratch itself really hurt and there was a new fertility nurse with her watching the whole thing. We were chatting and she lives near me and lo and behold I've now seen her in my local park 😂😂 One of those encounters where you recognise each other, smile, then I remembered how I knew her!. 

So  the TSH results come back, thyroid is now at 4.38, we all know it needs to be under 2. So I have to take levothyroxine 50mg and retest in 4-6 weeks. So no cycle. So basically £75 for injection and £300 for scratch and scan all wasted. I'm so glad I got this tested though.

I had some really awful experiences in the UK with my cycles which was why we went abroad. I found my notes I made for my first consultation at Serum where I asked about testing for NK cells and they said they treat empirically. I had steroids and intralipids, clexane etc in my 2 cycles I've had with them but when my results came back with the significantly high NK cells in blood my protocol got changed and LIT suggested as well as steroids for longer and more intralipids. You'll see from my sig we had an early MC last year, all I can think is that the outcome may have been different if we had known all this. But I can't change that. Then it was me that decided to get the thyroid tested and lo and behold an issue which would have impacted on the next cycle. Just feeling like I've become my own Dr right now when I'd expect this to be coming from the experts!.

I have a phone call with Penny tomorrow as my anxiety around it all is not being contained with emails. I've also booked a second opinion with Amanda at CRGW. I just want someone new to look at our case as a whole from a fresh perspective.

Oh and I had my iron levels retested at thr GP and they are now in normal ranges but something else came up that said I need to see the GP but it's not urgent- likely to be raised white blood cells I think but at least I might be able to get them to do some tests.

What else should I be testing for. I really want to do the uNK biopsies but as I'm now down regged who knows when it will all get back to normal?. Honestly, anything any of you can suggest, I'd be very grateful. As the next cycle is our last we really need to get this right.

Sorry for such a long post.

X


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## K jade

mrsC I know what you mean about being your own doctor. 
I just had my bloods done via a private GP to send to Locus medicus. The doctor taking the blood said 'so who is going to interpret your results for you?'
I just said without thinking 'me!'
Rome was absolutely amazing thanks, so glad we went.

sorry did you say you have had the blood NK cells but not the uterine ones? 
I'm so sorry your thyroid came back our of range. especially when you had done all that prep for your up and coming attempt . The positive I guess is that you saved money in the long run rather than plough ahead with a cycle. I heard that scratches last 3 months so hopefully you wont need another before cycling again?

penny is amazing and ladies on here are very evangelical about her.  A wise lady on here said that at times IVF is more of a dark disturbing art than a science and I think that really nails it to a T!
one thing I wander about penny  is that she is possibly more an artist than a scientist from what I've read about her. she is all about slapping it on, trying different things, thinking outside the box, taking risks,  to hell with precision! I really think the ivf world needs more people like her as she sounds very unique and for many women , her ways do work absolute  wonders.

however I still believe there are other people who need the more exact , precise, scientific ways of the good old boring, evidence based, by- the -book doctors. people like Dr G who leaves no stone unturned. 

Therefore if your thinking of a second opinion I think Amanda at CRGW would be good to see    as from what I've heard about her she is the opposite of penny. Conservative and all about the evidence and hard facts.
regarding further tests what have you already tested for?
have you had clotting? what about the hidden infections?
xx

ladies anyone know what the turnaround time is for locus medicus blood results?


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## Carrie88

MrsC - I'm shocked your thyroid has been missed. Good news is that thyroid dose will get your level down pretty fast - probably a month it will be normal level. nkc blood level doesn't matter too much, it's the nkc biopsy that matters.

I can write down all the tests ive had and you can see what you've had done?

TH1/TH2 cytokines 
Natural killer cell biopsy 
ERA
LAD
KIR
Hidden C test 
PAI-P test 
Vitamin levels
Hysterscopy 
Blood clotting 
Karotype etc 

Kjade - I don't know the turnaround time but I hope you're not waiting too long xx


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## K jade

Well I just feel completely deflated after my follow up. Nothing remarkable happened and we agreed on plan for my next cycle. 
But I can tell Dr was starting to lose hope for me and said that she would have expected me to be long gone, and clearly something has been been missed in terms of why I'm not getting pregnant but what it is is anyone's guess. 
I think I've started to realise that what scares me the most is never having any  answers just bfn after bfn. 
My hopes now lie with these locus medicus tests. I really hope they flag something major up, as it is I'm really losing it. Also she said ideally I do need to be off my anti depressants by ET which isn't helping either as not sure I can do without them


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey KJade

Sorry to hear your feeling a bit blah at the moment following your follow up. 

Could it be worth getting a fresh set of eyes on things i.e.  get another clinics advice on your case - if your clinic are giving you the impression they are can't give you much confidence in them - and I think that is really important to feel you have faith and confidence in the clinic your with that they are doing the best for you and are checking under ever stone to see what they can do. 

The anti depressants are tricky but I know with pregnancy they like you to be off them - could you see your GP with a view to trying to wean you off them maybe with the help of counselling or other support - could be something to focus on whilst waiting for your next cycle. 

Good luck and keep your chin up xxx


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## Carrie88

Kjade - was this an NHS clinic? I'm so sorry your follow up didn't go as well as you'd hoped.
RE- the anti depressants. Can you put your name down for counselling? I had cbt and that really helped me xx


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## Northern

Kjade I'm sorry your follow up was such a let down, especially when you've had to wait so long for it in the first place.  I know we all know it's not an exact science, but it's always disappointing when they can't even offer any theories as to what the issues might be or what else to try, even if they don't have fact.  Pretty poor of her to tell you to come off the anti-depressants too without offering ideas or options of other support or how best to wean yourself off them. 

Hope your Locus Medicus tests show something that might explain things.  Btw your story of the package delivery did make me laugh!  Mine was similar - they sent me a cardboard box marked all over with 'hazardous biological substance' etc for me to send my sample in - it got delivered to the post office opposite our house. When I went to collect it they said 'we've been intrigued about this all day, wondering what it is!' I just smiled and didn't offer any explanation; when I sent the sample back I had to take it to a different post office, wrapped in brown paper this time, and told the clerk it was a gift of a jigsaw!  The things we do   

Sorry I've been off for a while, life is a bit tough at the moment.  We have dp's eldest living with us again, he's 18 and at times can be selfish, demanding, and very verbally abusive to my partner.  It's an emotional rollercoaster at home and I'm struggling to keep up with it, honestly nearly walked out a few weeks ago so it's not the best foundation for our upcoming cycle. We are ok and have been talking about everything, we just need a bit of time for us really which we haven't had - honestly a week in Prague for ivf will do us the world of good I think! 
Xxx


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## Angedelight

K Jade that's so rubbish. It's so hard to keep hoping on this journey anyway after loads of let downs, last thing you need is a professional being like that. Definitely ageee with Nat about a fresh pair of eyes. You can get a consultation anywhere if you pay!. 

As I said in a previous post due to a couple of things coming up for me with TSH and NK cells I'm going to see Amanda at CRGW who doesn't know my history- going to present it all to her and see what she thinks. I'm going to stay at Serum but just interested in someone else looking at all and any recommendations. My counsellor thinks writing it all down will be cathartic (I'm not so sure myself!). Maybe something like this might be helpful? 

You definitely need confidence in your clinic and to feel like they've got hope for you- and them saying that something has been missed but who knows what is so annoying. I also think telling you to come off anti depressants is wrong- it's not up to her, she doesn't prescribe them and I'm sure you're on ones that would be safe in pregnancy anyway. You could speak to your Dr about reducing them and see how you feel- but don't feel pressured by someone who doesn't know your history. Hope you get your Locus Medicus results soon.

I'm just waiting for a Locus  Medicus delivery- we've just got back from a few days in Dorset, it's due today but thankfully we are back before it's arrived- what with yours and Northerns experience the neighbours taking delivery of something like that would be awful! Getting HLA DQ alpha matching done.

I'm still waiting for my levothyroxine prescription to arrive so I can get on with that. Carrie- my clinic agreed with your 4 week estimate of how long it would take to come down!. DH is booked to go to Athens to do his part in a couple of weeks- bless him, he's been in detox mode for weeks and now we are delayed he'll do his bit and get it frozen. He can't wait for a proper drink!.  Still hoping I can do a transfer beginning of November if nothing else crops up!.

Carrie- thanks for that list, going to work through my way through it all and see what's relevant. My Clinic said to do the DQ thing but didn't think anything else was needed. I'll do what I need to satisfy myself though!.

Northern- that sounds really stressful at home. Good that you're talking to each about it all. Some time away (even for IVF!) sounds good.

Hope everyone else is doing ok.

X


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## K jade

Thanks ladies. I really appreciate all your  support.  I’ve been feeling quite  alone in the process recently as DP isn’t much help to be honest. He prefers not to get involved and leave everything up to me. That’s fine in one sense but a bit of support wouldn’t go amiss (like perhaps asking how my appointment went yesterday )

Sorry I appreciate that post came across  very negative and didn’t  mean to be. The  consultant I see is very good , have seen her lost of times,  and I think perhaps I was reading into things by the look on her face at the end of a very long day. I was her last patient late in the afternoon  and I think people who had gone in before me had given her some grief . I wont go into too much as  wouldn’t be right on here but  it was a very odd situation and what looked like a whole family of middle aged parents and their teenage children who  had gone into the room all together  before me so I couldn’t quite work out what was going on there and why they needed to see the ivf consultant. 

You know how it is though with this, some days you just get so pig sick of it all, and the positivity wears off.  I think more and more I get so frustrated with our hard luck. suddenly being unexplained after such a categorical diagnosis of male factor just seems so unfair. I need to stop feeling sorry for myself on that front though and just get on with it.  Moving forwards though I am going to try long protocol this time  and she mentioned  having my bloods monitored too to check hormones aren’t flying off the radar as that can affect implantation so that was positive. Yet another proven donor (ha! how many now!) , no scratch though. Clinic have stopped it as the results were monitored and no positive difference was recorded. 

Nat I have been thinking about doing that for a while, seeking a second opinion I mean, and my best friend (who has no fertility experience but does fancy herself as a bit of a psychic )  also mentioned its something I should do. I have an issue with money however. We have savings, but my Dh literally doesn’t think this is worth a penny and is a complete gamble and not worth ploughing our finances into at all. I think he even resented the £540 I spent on the quenby biopsy! I know. £540 in this game is tuppence. I’ve literally used my own money to fund my locus medicus tests and kept it quiet from him . really healthy relationship  I know right. If something comes back from the locus medicus results I will have no choice to seek second option as  ill have to go to an immunie Dr and ill just have to lay my cards on the table and tell him we need to cough up, or we simply wont succeed. 
I don’t know what will happen if NHS doesn’t work out as I will want to go for private attempts but that’s another battle for another day. have you started your cycle yet?

Carrie I’ve had quite a bit of counselling at various stages in my life and it has helped. But the one  at the clinic isn’t the best . I’ve seen her before and she just told me the other option was adoption basically before id barely sat down.  So that was the end of that . but I could give it another go. I’ve got a  counselling qualification  myself and I sort of felt that perhaps she wasn’t trained properly as she was so bad LOL .  
I have a bit of time before I start the next cycle so I can gradually get to grips with tapering off the meds, and at least it wont be forever just the duration of the cycle 

northern oh honey Im so sorry. I didn’t realise you have step kids. That sounds really tough. I can really imagine that having SKs in this process can just add a totally new dynamic entirely in an already tough situation. Especially challenging ones. Your right it sounds like getting away will do you good. 
I know to be honest it's really frustrating when people say  its not an exact science, and its about ‘what’s meant to be’ and we have no control over it. I really don’t accept that sorry. Most women our age decide to come off the pill and get pregnant, so they have control! Why not us. Why cant we also decide we want to get pregnant too. 
Oh no sorry you had the embarrassing locus package too! that's so funny. In the end the good old royal mail are going to wander why the hell all these ‘jigsaws’ are flying off to Athens all the time. 


MrsC Amanda at crgw  is only up the road from me . I met her once years back when I originally went for a consultation at there. I hear very good things about her. And the clinic. I sometimes wander if going with them all those years ago would have led to a totally different outcome for us. Glad you are getting started on the lethoxyrine. That’s good you are getting DQ done with Locus. Other than the embarrassing packaging it’s a great discovery as so much cheaper  than immune clinics in UK. I just want my results now to know where I stand! Looks like they wont come until Monday though now. 


Whoah! That was a mammoth offload. I really appreciate the support on here and quite frankly if it wasn't for FF id have given up long ago.  hope everyone has a nice weekend planned?
its my birthday and DP has bought me a surprise so he says  . just hope its not jewellery as I lost the last bracelet he got me for my 30th and was devastated!

much love xx


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## Angedelight

Happy Birthday K Jade! Hope you've had a lovely weekend x


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## Northern

Yes happy birthday Kjade! Hope you've had a nice weekend celebrating - what was dh's surprise??   xx


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Happy birthday KJade xx


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## K jade

Aw thanks so much ladies. 
Well the surprise was a watch, quite a fancy one (dh managed to leave the price tag on ) 
But we had a lovely day, went to the river with the dog and a picnic, I also managed a drink at the pub afterwards which is rare for me. 
I'm hoping 33 is lucky for me as it's the age my nan had my mum and my mum had me, that's right I'm relying on good old superstition as science has let me down ha! 
Xx


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## K jade

hi ladies

my TNFA has come back as 35.53 so elevated.
my uNK cells done in May are bang on normal at 2.02%. 
from what I gather its unusual to have normal NKs but high Tnfa?

confused.com.....


any advice?
xx


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## Angedelight

Hi K Jade

Something showed up then. I'm opposite to you, high NK cells and normal TNFa which I thought was odd to have one and not the other. I'm now convinced that the high NK reading is due to something that I don't yet know about!!. My NK was blood tests though, not uNK so different. I wonder if blood NK cells would show high?. Have you got the Dr Beer book??. Might be helpful to refer to.

If my TNFa was elevated I'd have had a lap. I looked into this via CGRW, it was £1000 for diagnostic and then a bit more if any treatment was needed. If you have other symptoms and a good GP maybe they might refer you on the NHS?. 

I just sent bloods off to Locus Medicus on Monday for DQ alpha matching. Let's see what this brings back as currently any tests don't yield good news!.

Hope everyone else is doing ok.

X


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## K jade

thanks MrSC
gosh im so confused as what to do  
up until now I have literally been banging my head on a brick wall as to what the hell is wrong with me. finally something has shown up.  it feels both a relief and a new mountain to climb at the same time. 
as for a lap my fear is it botching  up my egg reserve. or these days are they more 'careful' as not to do that? ill have to go NHS I think due to costs. 
I think if I do have endo , I need it zapped  , then go ahead with my next cycle using immune meds (although from what I gather getting the right protocol may be tricky for me as my uNKs are normal). yes, ive got dr beer at home. will look it up . so much to think about. deep breaths. 

interesting that your results are the opposite of mine . I hope your DQ come back OK. I know how hard it is. each abnormal results yields more research,  leg work and expense. hopefully it'll be all OK.


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## Aley

Sorry for jumping rudely in the conversation but why have a lap if TNFa are elevated? 
And a lap only 1000£? Is that private or part nhs? I'll have one tomorrow if it's only 1000.


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## Carrie88

Kjade - hope you had a lovely birthday  it sounds like you did, hope 33 brings you your baby. It is unusual to have high tnf and not high NKC but does happen. Steroids and intralipids brought my tnf right down so you'll probably just need that. Dr Gorgy would probably suggest humira but I don't think that's needed as they're not too high. What have locus suggested? 

AFM - my LaD still aren't high enough so we are having another paternal LIT. They've gone from 7% to 33% after two LIT and they need to be 50%. 

So I'm going to Greece next week and I'm going to have the implantation cuts. Dr Gorgy wants me to have the scratch but hoping that the implantation cuts are enough and then I'll start prep for transfer 5.

MRS C - good luck with your dq Alpha test xx


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## Angedelight

Hi Aley

I'm with Serum and Penny wanted me to test my TNFa as if it's elevated it can be indicative of endometriosis- although only a lap can determine this for sure. She thought this might account for my egg quality issues. Mine came back in normal ranges and I don't have any other symptoms of endo. 

Whist I was finding out about laps I spoke to the consultant from CRGW (they are in Wales) and she said a diagnostic lap would be £1000 but if any treatment was needed it would be more depending on how much was needed but could be done in one go. That's private. I thought that was pretty good pricewise. I'm not a patient there but do use them for scans and scratches etc. I'm no expert and only go by what Penny says and the bits of the Dr Beer book I've read and managed to retain and understand!. But that's my understanding of it all anyway. 

Athens is lovely Carrie. Be nice to have some warmth and sun!. I'm pretty sure implantation cuts will be just as if not more effective than the scratch.

Completely aside from everything else, I just had a quick scroll through instagram then **. My feed is full of bloody babies on both. Really must delete both.

X


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Carrie - good luck with everything hun. Just to say the implantation cuts are meant to be better from my understanding as they are much deeper than just the scratch and last up to 6 months - which is brilliant. Whereas the scratch they give us in the UK only lasts for the one month cycle. Serum have had really good success with the implantation cuts. 

Xxx


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## Chez2k

Good luck Carrie x


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Ps. My understanding is same as MrsC for the high TNFA results and lap - I had understood that if got high TNFA there is a chance it could indicate endo - however in my case I don't have endo. 

The £1000 sounds very good. However i would be finding out in advance what are the charges for things like removal of fibroids, removal of scar tissue etc etc so you don't end up with a big bill. Also make sure if you are going in for a lap they are aware what you want done - you don't want to be waken up like I was years ago in the UK to find they haven't done what you wanted and end up paying for another lap. 

I had my hyst and lap together in Mitera Athens at a cost of just over 4000 euros which included both procedures and all the required matters i.e.  septum removal, scar tissue removal, fibroid removal etc etc etc. 

Good luck xxx


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## Carrie88

NAT1DRAGONFLY said:


> Carrie - good luck with everything hun. Just to say the implantation cuts are meant to be better from my understanding as they are much deeper than just the scratch and last up to 6 months - which is brilliant. Whereas the scratch they give us in the UK only lasts for the one month cycle. Serum have had really good success with the implantation cuts.
> 
> Xxx


Thank you, 1 week today!! 
So the implantation cuts are just better scratch? They do the same thing so I shouldn't re need a scratch?

MrsC - have you got a ttc instagram? i have a ttc and a personal one all in one but I've removed all my friends with babies for it?


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## Angedelight

Carrie- second what Nat said about the implantation cuts. The purpose of the scratch is all about disturbing the endometrium to create a more positive environment for implantation. The cuts definetely do this! You'll get to watch a DVD afterwards back at Serum of exactly what they do!!.

I don't have a TTC instagram, I'm really private about all of this. I work in a big team and only 3 people there know. Makes it so much easier not being asked about it. Obviously some friends are aware and I'll say about treatment but I don't go into details. It's been going on so long now that I think people think it gets easier and that I cope really well and are then a bit flippant/ not as supportive as I'd like so I find by saying nothing I have no expectations of how I'd like people to respond. We didn't tell anyone last time we went to Athens. So much nicer that way and the next time will be covert too!. How about the rest of you?. Are you open or closed about this?. I'm always interested in how other people manage it.

I've always said if it ever works I'd be so open about our story then. It's such a lonely process. I'd love to be able to give others hope or help them feel less alone. 

X


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## Northern

Kjade I can't offer any help at all with your blood results but glad the others are so knowledgeable on it, I wouldn't know what any of it means. Hope you're able to 'fix' it somehow and this ends up making the difference for you. 

Mrs-C that's exactly how I handle it too, I find it much easier that people don't know, I'd hate having to explain my decisions/complex emotional state to people I'm not particularly close to, it's much nicer just having 'real life' as an escape from all this.  I've told my manager who is lovely and v supportive, but no one else at work knows. I've told my parents but not my 2 brothers, and have only told one friend who doesn't live round here and is facing ivf herself - haven't told the rest of my friendship group, which I know they'll be disappointed about when I eventually do come clean, but it would have made it too hard.  One of them has had 2 babies in the time we've been ttc, I wouldn't want her to have felt she couldn't talk about it or make it awkward with me going through ivf at the same time.  I'm fairly private anyway so am quite the actress when it comes to hiding my real emotions!  One day though I will definitely be very open about it, I want people to know how hard it can be, and want to be there for anyone else who is facing this. 
Xx


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## Carrie88

Thanks ladies!! Hopefully this hysto will help towards our success.

Awww I'm the opposite, very open.

Everyone on my social media knows. I did a post during national fertility week and it was shared about 100 times.
And pretty much everyone who I work with knows as well, I need the support.

And my instagram is my ttc one and personal one so all my mates know everything on there as well xx


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## K jade

good  luck Carrie! yes from what I gather implantation cuts are far more effective and longer lasting. 

Nat and MrC could a lap be helpful for implantation do you think?  I'm dithering on emailing my consultant and asking if she can support a referral for me to have one. .. . always  conscious of coming across like a mad woman or internet doctor. 
My feeling is that If I have endo, then it is most definitely interfering with implantation and needs to be zapped. 
Nat that's a bit of a nightmare that you woke up and they hadn't even removed what they were supposed to! 

as for social media I rarely log onto my account these days. its just too depressing as people are either banging out babies or living life in the fast lane. neither of which I am currently doing.  
also one thing about it that really  bugs me  is when someone puts up a big collage of photos of a friend when its their birthday, then makes a massive speech about what a great person they are. what's wrong with just sending  a birthday card?!
clearly I'm very old fashioned.


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## Aley

Mrs-c and nat1 thanks for taking your time to explain. I have to say, I do find this whole TnF/NK a bit overwhelming hence I didn't test any yet. 
I am also I think on the side of trying to keep everything rather simple and avoid too many tests. It all seems a bit too much and I just can't do it. Am I the only crazy one thinking like that? Probably...

Sorry for not doing any personals, was absent for a good while and is hard to read back. I hope everyone is ok.

Good luck Carrie, hope all will go well in Greece. 
That's so nice you're open about ivf and the whole journey. I wish I was but don't have the guts, same as mrs-c I am private and I am afraid that people at work will not understand and start judging. I had a bad experience once trying to find a cover for work and mentioned 'fertility treatment'...never do it again!
Maybe a ttc separate account would be a good idea. 
Also Carrie, would really like to follow you on insta, promise I am not a weirdo creep.  

K jade, lap is quite invasive, if there isn't a good reason think of it twice as it comes with risks. 
I was told I have a blocked tube so potentially would like to have one but...but, again, thinking if it's really worthy? Also, it is expensive.


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## Chez2k

Just come away from our follow up after our last cycle and feeling very deflated. We've decided that it's time to call it quits. No tests, no more IVF and no serum. The doctor said it now looks like egg quality is the issue. Suggested some stuff but the money just keeps adding up and adding up. 
Game over!! 

I just wanted to say thank you to you all and I wish you all the luck in the world with your journeys xxxx


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade - haha yes that annoys me. Or when people post about their kids and speeches about them - the kid will have no idea and won't care!! 
Have you decided what to do about the tnf yet? Would a hysto pick anything up if you had something like endo? 
Id rather have that than a lap. Mine were 30.6 and came down to 17 with intralipids and steroids. 

Aley - I'm probably too open haha! I had someone in work come upto me the other day and said I don't really know you but I know of your baby journey and I can't think of anyone more deserving of a baby than you and your husband. I was like awww how sweet!! 
A lot of people have seperate and private ttc accounts 

Of course haha! I'm carrie_ivfpgd xx

Oh chez what a heartbreaking but brave decision you've made. So sorry it's come to this for you and I wish you all the best with your new path, whatever that may be xx


----------



## Angedelight

Chez- what a tricky decision to come to. We might be making that one soon. Definitely not an easy one to make. I wish you all the best.

Northern- you're like me, that's exactly how I describe myself, as an actress!!. Play the part, wear the mask! 😂

Carrie National Fertility Awareness week is amazing. I have a friend who shared her story about the impact of recurrent miscarriage during it last year on social media. She had an amazing response and lots of other messages from people who'd experienced the same but not been able to talk about it. Thats amazing your story got shared so many times- so good for raising awareness. I'm going to follow you on insta! 

KJade- when I was looking into the TFNa and lap it was to try and get an explanation for my egg quality as if TFNa raised it can affect this. You get to blast don't you? We never have. I know Penny said a hysto wouldn't pick up endo as it's in the tubes (I've had a Serum hysto). I guess if you can treat it with steroids and intralipids  (CGRW do intralipids much cheaper than anywhere else I've seen if your clinic doesn't) and get it down to normal range than that will be beneficial. You could always forward your consultant your results and see what she advises, or email Dr Panagiotis at LM to see if he will dish out any advice!.

Totally get what you mean about **- Carrie you said it too- when parents post these gushing messages to their 3 year old kids with loads of photos and they don't have an account/can't see it/ can't read it! Just tell them face to face!

Aley- for me doing all this further testing and things coming back with issues has made me glad I've done it. If this round had gone ahead without knowing about the thyroid issue that could have a huge negative impact on the outcome. It is a can of worms though and turns into a full time job!. We have said this next go is our last so I want to know we have covered all bases. 

Nat- how are you getting on, are you in Athens?

I've got my second opinion appointment on Monday. I'm not giving her all the piles of notes, I'm going to summarise it myself. My counsellor thinks it will be helpful/carthartic for me to do that, I'm not so sure, it  will probably make me realise I'm completely mental for still going!. 

X


----------



## Aley

Thanks Carrie! I just realised that I did post a picture with my meds once and mentioned ivf and everyone was like 'omg! Congratulations!' Like I already had the baby.
That's what really gets me, the lack of knowledge about ivf in general, people actually think you have ivf and boom! Baby! 
If I will ever have a ttc account or a blog or anything social media related I think I would like to have around many people that have no connection with ivf, people that have kids because I want them to know how sad and cruel this journey can be and how some of is really struggle for what others have from a night of shagging. 

Chez, so sorry! I know words have no meaning when you have to take that decision. I hope life will give you happiness and you'll find a way to get over this. 

Mrs-c, I know, sometimes if you don't test you don't know. I am very surprised you only found out now about the thyroid. I had that tested before I even started ivf, along with coagulation profile, hormones, tubes, uterus. 
It strikes me to see how some clinics will test for nk cells and all that but completely miss things like thyroid, that's something basic when it comes to fertility. 
Well, that's me saying... my clinic never tested me for chlamydia, again something that should have been started with.


----------



## K jade

Carrie I had a sneaky look at your page. Aww what a handsome pair you and DH are! 

Aley I have become one of those mad women who likes to test for everything. And im glad ive now found out I have an immune issue as I now  feel I’m making progress in terms of getting to the bottom of things.  Its really not everyone’s cup of tea and some prefer to plough ahead with attempts until they hit the lucky number, so its personal choice. With me I just don’t believe in unexplained infertility. I think as women we deserve much more than the whole  ‘one of those things’ ‘god doesn’t like us enough’ ‘we weren’t good enough in a past life’ attitude.  I know its not an exact science , but it is a science nethertheless and as I said before, most women are allowed to exercise control over when they have a baby. So why we are not allowed?  I sometimes get this whole sense that society views us repro challenged women as less deserving. Anyway ill get off my highorse now.  

MrC i agree  crgw are so much cheaper for Intralipids. Like half the price?! I’m lucky that they are local to me so I will almost certainly get ILs via them.  hopefully they will be OK with me doing this even though  I’m not an actual patient of theirs? I know ill have to pay £150 for a consultation first. About getting to blasts. Yes I do. Grade BB ones so a fair quality.  Good luck for Monday and let us know how it goes. I hear Amanda is very nice and personable so I’m sure you will find the appointment useful. 

Chez im so sorry.  That’s must be such a hard decision. If both egg and sperm is now the issue could embryo donation be an option? Much cheaper and more straightforward especially if you go abroad. Many use the czech clinics like Reprofit for this. Anyway something for you and DH to think about over time. I hope you can find peace as you look towards the future.  

Thanks for the advice everyone regarding  whether to try and get a laparoscopy. Incidentally I called the endo clinic in my hospital and it’s a lengthy wait. Probably more than 1 year.  I’m going to hold fire for now. I have a tendency to make rash decisions when my emotions run high and I should of learnt by now . I haven’t had a hysto just an HSG. I have free flowing tubes so if its endo it’s not causing tubal issues.  I really need those KIR results back but they are taking their sweet time . Then I will decide what to do. Lets hope they are back Monday. Then I can no doubt fall into another meltdown about who and where to go to fix me!

I hope everyone has a nice  weekend planned
kjxxx


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## Aley

K jade, I am sorry if my post came out as condescending, it wasn't that the idea at all.
Ofc everyone is entitled to do what is best for them and for me, is not that I don't think is a good idea to test but is more the fright of it. 
I had my fears when I was told for the era test I'll have to do a mock cycle and I hated the idea of taking all the drugs just for a biopsy... It was too much.  Then I am honestly afraid if I have to take meds like steroids and blood thinners, they all come with a price and I get so many side effects. 
It's not that I want to continue to have transfer after transfer hoping for a miracle. I want answers too is just about how far I am willing to go for those answers.


----------



## Carrie88

I hope the couple of new followers I've had are you ladies haha! 

MrsC - good luck with your app on Monday. When are your dq alpha results back? 

KJade - hahaha thanks. Least you can put a face to my profile now. Im the same as you - obsessed with testing for everything. And my views are the same as yours - I don't believe in unexplained fertility, there will be a reason - even if it's an issue with a test that hasn't even been created yet. I think that's a sound decision with the lap result - can't believe the waiting time is a year!! Xx

Aley - exactly. Those people with never know the pain and the journey we have had. I do understand your fears about what you're putting your body through as well. I am of the mantra there is nothing I wouldn't put my body through to get my baby but I do sometimes worry about things like the oestrogen and patches side effects xx


----------



## K jade

Aw Aley of course u didn't Hun! I was just saying Im definatly a certified mad woman , have been even before the IF stuff, so don't worry about that LOL. It's very daunting having all these tests done I agree. And it's a can of worms. For me I just got so fed up of people saying ' but there can't possibly be anything wrong with u it must be bad luck ' . I think a lot of that was based on the reasoning that if DP had such insurmountable issues that I must be fine. I thought right that's it, I'll find something wrong with me if it kills me!! 

God I've been reading that if u have high tnfa your meant to follow an anti inflammatory diet. Wow. That literally means nothing nice whatsoever. Cakes, biscuits , pizza, white bread, chocolate all bad apparently. 

Just when u thought infertility didn't suck the joy outta life enough it goes and steps it up another gear.
X


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## Carrie88

I'm meant to be following the same for my pcos and insulin resistance....but I'm not haha xx


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey

I read that too - although going gluten free for a long time made no difference for my levels. 

I think it's really tough as we get a test result and self diagnos what we need to do - think it's helps as makes us feel like we are doing something and gives us back some control - but I think half the time what works for one doesn't for another. So annoying really. 

I think everything in moderation to be honest unless you have a diagnosed intolerance to something. 

Xxx


----------



## Dolphins

Hi,

What a great idea for a support thread, as there must be plenty of us, unfortunately out there, who have been in this situation.

The next port of call for me, is now going to be down the donor route, as I have already been successful once with IVF/ICSI, my little one being 4, after a 3rd cycle of IVF/ICSI, but I have had 4 cycles since using my own eggs, to try for a sibling, and these have all failed.

So now, trying to do my research, and figure out which clinic I/we are going to go to?

Anyone else in a similar situation to me, and have a biological child through tx, but having to go through the non-biological route (on the female side) for a 'longed for' sibling?

Many Thanks

And I am so sorry, that we all find ourselves on this thread.

xx


----------



## Aley

K jade, I think we all have something mad about us, you can't really go through so much pain and disappointment and not be affected by it. 

And really...about not eating or eating the right things, is it just me suffering here when it comes to alcohol? 

Dolphins, I think most of us here are still trying for their first. 
Putting it the other way around, if I was to know definitely my eggs are the problem, will I go for donor embryo? Yes I would...wouldn't find it easy but I would. Just wish that would be a fix all.


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Not just you Aley - I actually salivate at the thought of a cold glass of rose wine 

Xx


----------



## Dolphins

Yes of course Aley, and I am sorry if I have offended anyone, if anyone is still trying for their first, I just wanted to know if anyone else was in my situation? That's all! Not to worry!

If it is ok by you all, I would like to stay on this thread, as I have had multiple BFN's and implantation failure's, and have felt like a constant pin cushion at times, but I will understand also, if you don't want me to stay on this thread as one of my treatment's have been successful.

Any thought's on this would be appreciated!

Thanks. xx


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey Dolphins

I don't think Aley meant it the way you have read it hun  

I think she was just trying to answer your question from her point of view of trying for a first. 

Everyone is welcome hun xxx


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## Carrie88

Hey dolphin

That must be frustrating for you when you know you've had success before.

How old are you? I can see on your sig you tried pgs. What happened there? Xx


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## K jade

Hi dolphins, welcome 
I've definitely come across loads of people on FF who did oe/os for first child then used donors for second. I would go for it. Abroad much cheaper and better value than UK, but It depends if Id release is important to u? Xx


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## Angedelight

Well summarising our history and writing it out myself for our 2nd opinion appointment tomorrow has been slightly traumatic. I started crying on number 2 and went to the shop for a bottle of wine between 2 & 3 and have just finished. The summary, not the wine!.
It's 7 years this December we started TTC. 
I think the reminder of the time invested in this is the worst thing. 
I wonder if she'll look at it all and say 'just give up!' 😂
Sorry for the me post. Had to get it out to people that would get it. 
Hope everyone has had a nice weekend.
I'll let you know how the appointment went and catch up properly with everyone else tomorrow xx


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## K jade

MrsC. (((((big hugs))))))) 
Your not alone. We all get it here. Xxx


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## Carrie88

Ohhh Mrs C  sending you so much love and hugs. Good luck for tomorrow xxx


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## Aley

Mrs-c, hope your appointment will go well. Sending virtual hugs, you're a very brave woman.


Dolphins, if you read your message and then mine it will make sense. You said 'anyone in the same situation having one child bio and thinking of DE?' and I said 'most of us are trying for the first' so therefore probably not many to advise you there and then I said what I'll do anyway which was an honest advice. This is not the place to have arguments, I think most of us are having enough of that. I sure do. 
Everyone is free to write and seek support, we're not an exclusive group.


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## Northern

Big hugs to you Mrs-C, this is such a horribly tough journey. Hope your appointment goes well today, thinking of you xxx


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## MissTee

Morning everyone ....ive been lurking for a while but thought ibwould come out of the bushes and join you all, you seen like a friendly bunch  

im trying for number 2...my son was through ivf and is almost three.  I had no frosties the first time round and on my most recent attempt I got the call from the embtyologist just as i was arriving at the clinic to say my 2 embryos had arrested.  So i had nothing to transfer, I dont think i have ever cried so hard.  Anyway...ive scraped myself off the ground and have got a consultation on Friday.  I think low amh and egg reserve is my issue.

So if it's okay I'll hang out with you guys?  I've had friends suggest egg donation, adoption and just stopping which although well meaning isn't what I want to hear just yet.  But on the  reverse... How do you keep going ?  How are you guys managing? 

I'm thinking of trying access fertility  in a bid to keep costs down.. Has anyone tried it ? I'm planning to call them today....ill report back if that's helpful.

Mrs C...  I hope the wine helped ! All the best with  the consultation today.  Hope it spurs you on and helps you to feel positive about moving forward ! 

Dolphins I can relate.  Infertility is never easy whenever it's experienced.  I've been on Ff for over 5 years and have only ever found a supportive set of ladies who have genuinely tried to help even when they are going through hell.  I think sometimes things get lost in translation that's all. I've not got any advice on the donor process....but if you're happy with your clinic maybe yiubcould find out if they do egg donation/  egg sharing? 

Chez.. .So sorry you've come to that decision.  I know it wont have been easy but hope in time you find peace.  Big hugs 

Carrie....hehe...i looked at your page, loved it.  I didn't realise there was such a strong Insta ivf community.  I'm thinking of setting up an account just for that.. ..it would give me another outlet which I think you need sometimes.

Kjade thanks for setting up the thread.. .Hope you get your results back today ! 

Hi Dragonfky, aley and anyone else I've missed xxxx


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## Bettyville

Hi ladies,
I hope you don't mind but I'd like to join this thread too - I've been lurking on it for some time but just have never posted!
I'm 6 years now into our journey - never had a BFP, x2 failed IuIs, X1 was abandoned due to over stimulation and now x2 failed ivf's.
This whole journey has had an absolute horrible impact on my health - my most recentl failed ivf was in Feb this year and has taken me 6 months to recover.
I'm not sure if I want to do it again - we went for a second opinion at CRGH as we have lost faith in our original place. Thinking about doing another (which would be my final!) ivf just fills me with sheer dread, makes my asthma go crazy and my anxiety gets so bad. Never mind my eczema or emotional wellbeing!
Generally v tired of the whole process!
Anyways - hope to hear from you all soon,
Betty


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## Northern

Hi Bettyville and MissTee, welcome!  Also welcome to Dolphins, I totally agree with the others everyone is more than welcome here, we're all facing the same battle in one way or another - sorry you all find yourselves here, repeated BFNs are hard at any time.  FF and particularly this thread has been a wonderful place to meet other ladies who understand the pain, it's great to have such lovely support although I'm sorry for all of us that we have to go through this! 

Bettyville I can relate to the dread of another cycle, that's exactly what I'm feeling at the moment. I honestly can't face the thought of what we do if it doesn't work, my head starts to spiral.  Do you have any tips on dealing with it?  I did a mindfulness course last year which I think would help if I stuck to it, and last cycle found some hypnotherapy for ivf sessions on youtube which were quite good, think I'll start making an effort with those again. 

Love to all of you xxx


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## K jade

welcome Misstee and Bettyville nice to see some new faces on here.  

betty am I right in thinking I had some immune test done? did they shed any light at all?

Carrie how long did your KIR results take? am wondering if they perhaps take longer cause its quite a complex thing to test for...

MrsC all the best for today . keep us posted 
xx


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## Carrie88

Kjade - probably about 2 weeks - 3 weeks. How long has it been for you? Xx

MissTee - welcome!! Oh the ttc on Instagram is mega, there's thousands of women on there. It's so strong and so amazing - I've gone to a couple of ivf meet ups from it and made some great people who I consider friends. 
Sorry to hear about the 2 embryos arresting  good luck for your next app on Friday xx 

Betty - so sorry to hear of your struggles I can defo relate to that as can all of us lovely ladies in here xx 

Hope everyone else is all ok xxxx


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## Bettyville

morning ladies,
Thanks for being so welcoming.
We have had immune tests done however, when we went to the new clinic for a second opinion they mentioned that they weren't the chicago tests and IF we did IVF again and got to a stage where we needed to do more tests, then we would need to do the Chicago ones. We did the ones via TDL but apparently not everyone uses those & that would explain why i don't have some of the results that alot of others mention!

My husband has just done the DNA Fragmentation test - at our old clinic, the consultant mentioned that there was no need for him to do this as his sample results are always good so it would be unlikely that he would have any fragmentation. Is this true? If you have great samples then would that mean that you don't always have fragmentation? This new clinic stated that, that isn't always the case - any ideas?

@Northern, for me yoga and meditation are just so important and that's what gets me through (+ seeing my counsellor) - if i've been taught anything in this journey, it's  yoga and meditation should be fundamental to anyone's life!

Hope you all have a wonderful day today...


----------



## K jade

Oh bettyville  how annoying, from what I remember you spent quite a bit on them too?
just because they weren't the Chicago ones doesn't mean that the consultant you saw couldn't make some effort to interpret them and make a judgement about what's going on and why your having multiple failures. 
personally it sounds like they were just trying to get you to spend more money by having the immune tests done again with their clinic. 
did the tests you had done  show anything outside of the normal reference ranges at all such as high NK cells , or issues with antibodies or clotting? if so then there is no reason why a clinic cannot draw up an immune protocol for you without you having to go through the expensive process of having the tests repeated. 

again from what I know about DNA fragmentation it can be an issue even with great sperm on preliminary tests so defiantly worth having done. 

carrie is been 2 weeks today. really hope I hear something !!
xx


----------



## Dolphins

Thank you for your support ladies, I am generally not trying to argue with you Aley, I know what you mean.  Thank you. 

I will read up on the previous posts, and see how you lovely ladies are doing, so I can reply back to as many of you as I can.

Speak to you soon.  x


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all.

Welcome Dolphins, MissTee and BettyVille.

Carrie are you off to Athens this week? If so, good luck! My only advice is take some sanitary towels with you you feel comfortable wearing for after the hysto. They gave me a huge nappy like one for leaving the hospital!. Try and get in a bakery too, they do the most amazing pastries, I love the spinach and feta ones. And if you have time The Acropolis is amazing with fab views.

KJade hope your results come back soon. I'm waiting on Locus Medicus too. 

Nat hope all is going well in Athens.

Bettyville & Northern I'm feeling exactly like you ladies at the moment. I've had several meltdowns lately- usually triggered by something not related to IF but once the floodgates open it becomes about everything. DH said last night he doesn't think I'm strong enough to do another cycle which was really unhelpful. I'm not sure why things are so difficult, being in limbo is always hard and I'm sure I'm having side effects from meds too. I probably need to do something relaxing like yoga/meditation. I like exercise but I tend to like really intense things. Can anyone recommend any good books for positive mind sets?. What else do you all find helpful? That's another thing DH said- you have to believe it will work next time- why would I do that? It hasn't all the other times!. I think you have to hope it will and be positive but also accept it's not a guarantee.

My appointment went well, just nice to chat it all through, she agreed with everything and was able to give lots of evidence based opinions and quote relevant studies which is great, better than all that 'you've just been unlucky' BS!!. She's going to ask my GP to do a few tests and if they'll prescribe some things for me which would save £££s. Got a GP appt on Monday. 

Bettyville- that's so annoying about the tests. Agree with what KJade says about the clinic couid still interpret them.

Hope all the rest of you ladies are doing ok. 

X


----------



## Bettyville

Hi MrsC,
Oh i'm sorry to hear about your conversation with DH - that's not nice. I just hate it, sometimes, i feel that they really don't see what we're going through, even though they're right there. I've had all sorts of health complications becuase of IVF and as they're invisible illnesses, no-one understands or has any sympathy. If i had a physical illness it would be totally different. However, i shouldn't think like that.

A couple of books which have helped me - 
1. Finding peace in a frantic world - this is a meditation book and you read it / follow along with the meditations
2. The secret, i've started it but haven't finished it. People seem to love this book!

I guess with the exercise, you have to do what's right for you. I found for me it's meditation & yoga, although i've been pretty crap recently. Also, walking, i just love walking!

Glad that your Dr is able to do the tests for you, that's great news. i'm thinking of asking ours too if/when we get to that stage. Feeling pretty ****e today though, AF is pretty much arriving!! Pains are getting worse!


----------



## Carrie88

Bettyville - I can't believe they didn't accept your immune results - that's crazy!! I don't think that's true about the sperm - just like embryos - they can be great grades but abnormal. What immune tests did you have? Xx

MrsC - yes off to greece tomorrow!! Thanks for the tip. My sanitary towels are packed. I've got my instruction letter from serum, money, passport, insurance. They're the main things aren't they? Oooh thanks for those tips. We shall check them all out.

I've read the secret. It did help and I enjoyed reading it until transfer 4 failed and then I dismissed everything in it lol xx


----------



## K jade

another one who read the secret too! a number of years ago actually. needless to say since then its been sat untouched on my bookcase collecting dust. 

MrC glad appointment went well with Amanda. what tests did she recommend? I know this sounds really sad but for me watching something completely irreverent and stupid  on TV defiantly helps. the other night I watched about 4 episodes of  only fools and horses on Gold. I just laughed out loud and completely forgot about everything for that brief time.  I don't know why but stuff from the old days really helps take my mind off things. 

well I finally got my results. I'm missing a few KIRs one of which is key for fertility.  from what I gather this means that my blood  NK cells are most probably irregulated as I think that KIRs are the ones that keep the NKs in check.  I definitely need neupogen. Luckily Dp was on board thank god. although its not come at a good time. we have a massive blockage underneath our house and right now cannot even pour water down the sink or use the washing machine. we've been quoted £1000 to fix it so that's gonna hurt  

I need Dr Gorgy I think so will be making an appointment in the next coming days. bit apprehensive about that. I hope he doesn't find lots more wrong with me as that'll lead to expensive treatment. I really don't want to do drips like LIT and IVIG certainly isn't an option. I hope I can do humiria/ hydroxyl and then neupogen. I've really opened a can of worms here but god I feel so much better that I have actually found issues.

carrie best of luck for your travel today. hopefully you'll have a bit of time to enjoy the sites and the sunshine too 
xx


----------



## ladykris

Hi Dolphins, I’ve been to IB Alicante for my DE cycles. They are very busy but I think worth it. We’re recommended by my dr at the Lister in London. 
I’m now 10 wks after the second cycle with them (1st was a mc at 6 weeks). 
Hit me up with a private message. I would be more than happy to share with you from my experience. (I can compare having done 9 cycles in 3 countries with OE). 
Xx Kris


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## K jade

Massive congrats lady kris! A bfp on this thread is so encouraging and gives us all hope 
Keep us posted x

Carrie hoping all went well xx


----------



## Northern

Arrrgh I need to vent, just been to Asda to get a quote for my meds and they reckon they can't take my prescription, despite it being the original - completely against what they said when I emailed them to ask! Yes bits of it are in Czech but the drugs are in English and the amounts are obviously numbers so i don't know what their problem is! Has anyone else experienced this with Asda? How did you get round it? Sat in the car having a few mins to calm down having left nearly in tears, I'm so sensitive about all this, it's hard enough to organise as it is. To top it all off it's my sodding birthday today so they have really made my day! 

Grrrrrr ok rant over, I will pull myself together and go home and drink! 

Ps ladykris many congratulations, hopefully the first of many bfp's on this thread xxx


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## K jade

Northern happy birthday hun  

Can you take it to another store? Not sure where u live.. We have four in Cardiff. All have pharmacies. I'd try each one 
Second can u get the name of the person who responded to your email? I would even consider printing it off and showing it if another pharmacy gives u grief.... 
Breathe... get some chocolate.. and a cuppa.. Xx


----------



## Angedelight

Northern- Asda were useless with me too, said they wouldn't even do an EU prescription which is just ******** because they have to, I googled it. Lloyds pharmacy have always been great with me. They take faxed/emailed prescriptions from Serum for me and dispense then Serum send the original.

Take a deep breath and get yourself a birthday drink! Happy birthday!! Also Fertility2U are very well priced for meds.

Carrie hope all is well in Athens.

Nat how are you getting on? 

KJade- Am I being thick or does Dr Beer not talk about KIR receptions in his book?. I can't find them in there. After your post I've been looking them up. Dr Gorgy sounds a good shout. I hope you got your drain issues sorted. 

Congrats LadyKris!! How did you find the DE process over there?. 

Hi everyone else. Hope you're all ok and having nice weekends.

I'm just off to work to do an extra night shift to earn some £££s which will no doubt be spent in some way on infertility, either tests/prescriptions or paying off the last round that went on the credit card 😂😂. 

Got a GP appointment on Tuesday where I'm hoping they will do a lupus and rheumatoid arthritis blood test to see if that's why my NK cells are high- my Mum has rheumatoid arthritis. I can then also book my thyroid retest for a couple of weeks time to see if it's come down and Amanda who did my 2nd opinion has wrote to the GP to see if they will do a thrombophilia panel. I doubt they will and if they don't it's back to CRGW to get it all done. Oh and the Locus Medicus DQ Alpha matching cane back with no match. Feels like a never ending tick list!.

Xx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey Northern

Asda do take EU prescriptions but will only issue on the original - you should ring up ahead Office at Asda and speak to them about the particular branch to ensure they deal with it for you. In the meantime ring round a few places to get other quotes so you have something to compare Asda to ie. Ali's Pharmacy in London (they issue on an emailed prescription) and deliver. Fertility 2U online. Sherlock Holmes Pharmacy in London were brilliant but don't think the deliver. Definately get on to Asda Head Office and get them to sort out that particular branch. I called Charlton and they said they issue but on original. 

Good luck xxx


----------



## Northern

Thank you all, reading your posts made me feel so much better (that and a large glass of rosé) 

Nat, it was an original script as I knew that was a deal breaker for them, it was the amount of Czech on it that they had issues with. But the drug names are English and the dosages are in numbers, so really if I can understand what it means I don't see how they can't! 

The email I had was a little vague - I had it saved on my phone to use as evidence but didn't pull it out as it mentions 'must be in English' and 'pharmacist's discretion' so I didn't think it would help! We do have another asda which I might try but unfortunately we live in a bit of a backwater and I'm pretty sure most of them won't have dealt with this sort of thing before  

Has anyone used Oxford Online Pharmacy? They have good prices online, so I'm going to email them my prescription to find out if they would accept it. I've also got a quote from Ali's which is pretty good but he can't get hold of 2 of the things I need. Likewise with F2U, and they're a bit dearer. God it's so hard! 

Thanks for the birthday wishes. The best thing that happened yesterday was when I got home there was a card and chocolates from dp's eldest son, saying he realises he's been a bit of a d*ick at times but saying it's time he moved on as I make his dad really happy and for that he's genuinely grateful. Totally didn't see it coming and I'm so touched by it, hopefully a massive step forwards. 

Ha sorry for the me posts! Really helps to sort out my mental state on here! 
Kjade are you getting anywhere with the blood test results? 

Carrie how are you getting on in Athens? Are you managing to enjoy some sunshine while you're out there? 

Mrs C I hope your gp can help you out. If your mum suffers from it then I'd be surprised if they refused to test you, hope you get them on a good day. 
Xx


----------



## K jade

morning ladies, hope everyone's OK

Northern how lovely of your SS. bless him. I bet that was quite a surprise!
could you perhaps contact an ASDA in your nearest big town or city? they might be more used  to this in a more populated area. 

MrC interesting about your mothers arthritis. My mother has recently really gone down hill with it. I saw her on Saturday and asked her about it, as I thought this might be relevant to my issues. But it turns out hers isn't rheumatoid , but just caused by 'wear and tear' . you know what I need to dig out Dr Beers book. its been in the garage since DPs parents stayed at our house to look after the dog. DP didn't want them stumbling across it. but your right I don't think it does mention it. I certainly cannot remember reading about them in there.

sorry I cant remember you saying, are you in Wales? cause if so our NHS are really tight with doing these tests. they refused me thrombophilia, saying that they'd recently passed a policy which states that GPs are not to do any tests that would be used in private clinics, or that had been requested by private clinics. 
might be best to not mention fertility at all. Perhaps say your really concerned about developing arthritis yourself and have some symptoms?  sometimes you have to tell fibs in this game. 

AFM I'm feeling slightly fragile today. managed to 'do' a half marathon yesterday. I say 'do' cause I certainly didn't run it, but managed to walk it in 4 hours. I work for a charity and we managed to raise over 8 thousand for our cause so that was good. 

I need to call Dr G's office today and get an appointment with him, hopefully for sometime this month. I'm a bit nervous that he'll say he wont be able to help me without expensive things like IVIG and LIT and that the tab is going to amount to thousands. DP will be very resistant to that. But the way I see it this really is last  chance saloon for us. its our final NHS attempt, and I want to throw the kitchen sink at it. If tailored immune therapy from the likes of him cant help me then I'm all out of ideas. we've gone to so many lengths to try and get pregnant and this is sort of the last hurrah, before ill have to accept my body is bust. 
i'm hoping it'll  be the missing piece of the puzzle  
xx


----------



## Carrie88

I'M ALIVE!!!! 

Had a great little time in Greece. Everything looks great apart from some red patches of infection/inflammation so I'm on some Greek antibiotics for 10 days. 
Would defo reccomended serum and the mitera hospital 
Back down in London on Thursday for our 3rd lit and then a baseline scan on my next cd1 and then transfer prep!! 

LadyKris - congrats on the BFP, lovely news xx 

Northern - hope you had a nice birthday  I would of cried as well at Asda. Did you sort out your prescription in the end? I hope you did. Awww that's really sweet of your DP's son, bet that made your day xx 

Mrs C - it's awful thinking like that isn't it? I've worked my **** off since August to raise the £1500 I needed for Greece. I got paid on the 18th September and £700 went straight out and into my Greece fund. Sigh. 
Good luck with all of your tests at thand GP. My GP can be dead funny so I hope yours isn't, shouldn't be though if there's family issues? Good news about the dq alpha match as well - another thing ticked off xx 

Kjade - what an amazing amount to raise for charity, go you!! Did you call Dr Gorgys office? Xx


----------



## K jade

Carrie so glad everything went well. Oh I didn't raise that money by myself LOL. there was about 20 - 30 of us from work doing it. I raised about a tenner! 
yes I called them yesterday and seeing him in 2 weeks. i'm a bit nervous  
xx


----------



## Carrie88

Haha that's still an amazing amount!! 

Oh exciting!! What was the lab that did the test? Did they get sent to Chicago? Xx


----------



## K jade

It wasn't Chicago no it was the locus medicus lab in Athens. I'm really hoping he accepts them.   They are basically the same as the Chicago tests so here's hoping.... 
Money is such a worry right now. Our blockage is still not sorted and to top it all of our kitchen needs replacing too! It was on its last  legs anyway but in trying to sort out the blockage dp spilt sulphuric acid all over the worktop,  and had to rip out some of the units in trying to locate where exactly the blockage is. So it currently looks like a bomb site 
Off into the office now to pick up some extra work manning the helplines.. the money will have to com from somewhere... Xx


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all

Northern thats so amazing about your step son. Must go some way to making up for the difficult times. How did you get on with your prescription in the end?.

Carrie- you survived!! Did you get to see much of Athens? How did you find your viewing?. I felt a bit queasy when I saw what implantation cuts looked like. Great that transfer is getting close!.

KJade well done on the half marathon and fundraising! Sorry everything is going wrong in the house. It always happens all  at once. Good luck with Dr G. Really hope he accepts your results.

I went to the GP yesterday. She has increased my iron tablets, agreed to monitor and test the thyroid  and prescribe the thyroid meds as Serum are doing the prescription at the moment. She agreed to test for rheumatoid arthritis, I thought you could get lupus with that as well but you have to see a haematologist. She says the thrombophilia was fertility related so would not do that. So all in all went ok. Will book in for it all when I get a chance. 

Hope everyone else is doing ok. I'm about to curl up on the sofa with the dog and catch up on Liar.

Xx


----------



## K jade

MrC  ive recorded Liar, hope its good. Sounds like the perfect evening to me. nothing better than cwtching up with the dog on a chilli evening. Great news that your GP is going to help


good news from me. Our drain is finally unblocked!!!


----------



## Northern

Mrs C that's great your doctor helped you out, it makes such a difference when they're helpful with it all, we go through enough stress as it is without trying to source all these tests from other places, when they can just do it for us if they choose. 

Carrie welcome back from Greece! Glad all went well and you liked the clinic. Did it feel like a holiday being over there? I've heard very good things about Serum. 

Kjade congratulations on the drain unblocking!  Sounds like you've got a lot on your plate at the moment, well done with the half marathon too! 

I'm still struggling with prescription nightmares but going to the gp tomorrow (to try and wangle a blood sugar test out of her) and will see if she could maybe rewrite them for me or countersign them or something. I'm really struggling to get hold of Pregnyl, had this issue last time but Ali's managed to get hold of it, but it seems harder this time. I'm trying not to panic but actually only got about 2 weeks until cycle starts so it's slightly starting to stress me now! 
Xx


----------



## Carrie88

MrsC - Liar is so good - not seeing these twists coming. Did you watch doctor foster? Sounds like your GP is checking off a few things, fingers crossed for those results!! 
Yes we went to the flea market and the acropolis  haha I felt fine watching it, I made hubby watch it as well when I got back haha xx 

Kjade - I have read from someone who went to dr Gorgy with Greece results he was a bit moody and questionning them but he did accept them. He's hard to understand and speaks fast and like you should know what he's talking about. But trust his advice. If things are too expensive for you he will take that into account. Glad your drain is unblocked, I bet that's a relief!! Xx

Northern - No it didn't as it was overcast and windy haha! I stayed in a hoody and leggings. Oh god what a nightmare With this prescription. Did you manage to get it sorted? Xx

Hope everyone else is doing ok 

I was in London on Thursday for my 3rd LIT. Re test on 30th October.
I'm meeting up with some ivf ladies today in Manchester - it's an instagram meet up. Food at revs so I'm looking forward to that xx


----------



## Jess_CW

Hi ladies, new to the board to I hope you don't mind me joining! 

Just transferred our 3rd blastocyst (FET) and BFN. We were really lucky with our first cycle- 5 embryos made it to day 5, and even our Dr said that she thought it would work for us (we've got unexplained infertility). All 3 transfers have been BFN though.

We're on an NHS cycle and it seems like the protocol is so fluid - first FET we transferred in day 22 and this time day 20. No explanation why the change, and no tests in between! They've said if we need a 2nd cycle we can self fund a scratch for the fresh transfer but that's about it. I'm so frustrated with lack of answers/tests to try and figure out why they aren't implanting.  Seriously considering giving up and starting down the surrogacy path  🙁 

I'm getting caught up with this thread, there's a lot to read! But any advice on someplace to start- even just things to ask the clinic at the next appointment? 

Thanks ❤


----------



## Carrie88

Hey Jess

Sorry you find yourself in here  least we've all been there so we know exactly how you're feeling.

I don't want to overwhelm you with things cos once you start looking for an answer you open a can of worms. I had the same as you with the NHS and that's why we ended up leaving our funding and moving privately.

However I would:

1. Ask about a hysterscopy 
2. Is your thyroid under 2.5?
3. Vitamin D levels? 
4. Go to your GP and ask for the level 1 immunes - mine did mine and vitamin D was included in it actually.
5. Look into the NKC biopsy at Coventry 

That's where I started xx


----------



## Northern

Eek I think I'm actually posting here with good news! My hero pharmacist OPPPOSITE MY HOUSE (yes, idiot here lives opposite a pharmacy and didn't think to ask there) has sorted my prescription and even thinks he may be able to get the pregnyl, and I think it will even come in cheaper than Ali's. 

I have apologised profusely for not asking him all along, I just assumed they wouldn't be able to help as I'm so used to that response - this stupid process has trained me to think that I'm not entitled to help as help is designed around the NHS, no NHS treatment = no help, but actually there are some people out there who will really go out of their way to be helpful, and sometimes they're right on your doorstep  . I feel such an idiot, but very relieved. Should pick everything up on Wednesday. Have scan tomorrow night to confirm no cysts etc then we're all systems go on next cycle. 

Jess welcome, sorry you find yourself here. I echo everything Carrie has said - ask your gp for any test they can think of, basic hormones is a good place to start. 

Carrie how was your ivf meet-up? Sounds a really lovely idea xx


----------



## K jade

northern YES! And how convenient to have them right on your doorstep.  are they an independent pharmacy rather than a chain? sometimes these places go out of their way to help you more than the big places like asda etc as they need to compete. 

jessCW welcome. sorry you find yourself in this situation. for me , after several failed cycles, I went down the route of immune testing. the immune system plays such a vital role in implantation and pregnancy. sadly public health bodies are very resistant to this idea and you may have to find yourself going private for further testing and access to the right treatment. 
carrie has given some really good advice on where to start. 

hope you enjoyed the meet up carrie. good to know he took the Athens results. 

afm ive gone down with an awful bug. terrible throat infection. feels like I'm swallowing knives. lets hope its all cleared up by next week.


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all

How are we all doing??.

Jess welcome, sorry you find yourself here. I found the book 'Is Your Body Baby Friendly?'  really helpful but it's quite full on. Think Carrie has given some good advice on where to start initially.

Carrie your meet up sounds fab. I find it so much easier talking to others in the same situation rather than my actual friends- must be really nice to have that extra support. I've not watched Dr Foster but everyone raves about it so I'll have a look. Need more winter viewing!.  If your LIT comes back as it should be will you be transferring soon?.

KJade- did you get an appt with Dr G? Good news about the drain!. Hope you feel better soon.

Northern- YESSS for the things that make life a little easier!. Hope you got the go ahead from your scan.

DH went to Athens to do his bit for the freezer at the weekend. He's been on detox since July and anti biotics and steroids, Vit C, Vit E, Zinc etc. Results came back yesterday. Compared to this time a year ago a huge improvement- and that was a good sample if it wasn't for the pesky antibodies!.  His anti sperm antibodies are down to 70% (they were around 97% back in 2013) fragmentation 11% from  14% and bigger count and better morphology etc. He came out of Serum and treated himself to a double expresso and 4 beers!.

I have my Thyroid retest next week so fingers crossed that's come down. 

Hope everyone else is doing ok.

My neighbours have just had a baby. They called him a name that was on my list- my grandads name.. Literally every name I like will be used up if I ever have one!. 

Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Northern - yaaaay!!! That's great news  least you know for next time. How did your scan go? Hopefully no sly cysts there? Meet up went fine - lovely ladies as always but not going to lie (I know I'm not judged here) I did feel a bit bitter that a lot of girls were there pregnant or were mums after 1 or 2 transfers. Why haven't I!! Xx 

Kjade - Poor you  hope you're feeling better soon!! Dr Gorgy next week right? Xx

MrsC - that is great news about your husband, that's a significant improvement. Did you go with him? He defo deserved that beer haha!! 
Dr Foster has finished now but you could binge watch it in a weekend. I feel lost without it tonight lol. Liar was good yesterday though!! 

I'm waiting for my cd1 to appear so I can go to London for my baseline scan to find out what I'm doing. I'm due next Tuesday but I stopped the oestrogen and progesterone pills from Greece on Sunday and they say expect a period within 2-5 days of stopping it so who knows when it's going to arrive.

If the lit isn't big enough we're still going to continue. We've spent £3,000 on the LIT now - we're not spending anymore xx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey ladies

so sorry I havent been on here for some time.......we finished our two week wait last friday with yet another BFN.......heartbroken is a understatement........

so we are now considering whether we need to say enough is enough of IVF treatment and move on with our lives with a different journey with adoption........I have spent the last few days crying, talking - and have booked an appointment to start counselling next week........

we have had a follow up email from Serum stating that before proceeding with adoption in their opinion we should consider having one last cycle of IVF with donor sperm - as although they have always said the tests were good for my DH sperm they say there could be a hidden DNA issue - also they have said if we want to be really drastic and improve our chances we could go for double donor........has thrown a bit of a curveball on us really as given us something to really think about.......it would be 5,000 euro for a egg donor cycle........Serum are of the opinion that they have covered my immune issues......our thoughts are that if we are at the stage of considering adoption then double donor would be the equivilant as such but just different.......

any thoughts ladies?? really so emotional at the moment and any advice would be greatly appreciated.......

Good luck Carrie88 with Day 1 arriving and your cycle......

Mrs C I know the feeling with baby names - every time someone around us has a baby you dread them saying what they have called them in case its "your name"........to be honest after all we have been through now I have accepted that the names have gradually gone - and to be honest if we are ever lucky enough to be able to name a baby we would probably have changed our mind by the time it was born anyway  ..........good luck with your upcoming cycle

KJade.......good luck with your appointment with Dr. Gorgy - let us know how you get on......

sorry if I have missed anyone
xx


----------



## K jade

thanks ladies, yes appointment next week with Mr G. feeling nervous. 

Carrie fingers crossed for your LIT result. i'm sure you will have done enough by now. I know they like it to be a certain level but the fact it has risen will dramatically increase your chances, plus you have had hysto and will be doing neupogen too. All those things will help.

MrsC great news on DHs results. eugh neighbours. mine have B/G twins. my holy grail. I often scowl at them from the window 


Nat no no NO! So sorry hun
from being around on these boards for  a while I know that penny often refers to ‘hidden sperm issues’ and suggests DS, which for many couples is the missing link and  finally gets them their baby. I’ve also seen lots on people on here who do numerous cycles with DE and OS and eventually have success with double donation. So I agree that sperm (and egg) can have hidden defects that can’t yet, with today’s technology, be detected by any test.  Its so hard making decisions right after a BFN as your emotions are just going to be all over the place.  DD is always something I would consider but I appreciate I am quite blasé about donation whereas others find it harder to accept. Despite immune issue often wrecking  havoc with our  fertility, by far the biggest determination of implantation, they say,  is the embryo. it may be that a change in 'cells' is what you need to finally achieve pregnancy. 
Many hugs to you hun


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey Kjade.......

good luck for next week......

Thank you so much for your reply.......just feeling so lost and unsure what to do really.......if only had a crystal ball where we could see what was going to happen and know what would be the right thing to do........do we jump in with both feet and go for it - or do we go down another journey to have a family now.......I know what you mean about the donor side of things as I am not phased by this for me and DH at all - I really feel like if we are open to adoption (which we really are) then donor is no different

xx


----------



## K jade

You've addressed the issues with your immunes and uterine environment. the one thing I guess that you haven't changed  throughout this process is the embryos. and a new embie could make all the difference. adoption is a wonderful thing. are you ready to give up on the idea of pregnancy? or would not taking one last roll of  the dice knaw away at you?  
please be kind to yourself. Every bfn  triggers a new cycle of grief and it doesn't get easier no matter how many times we go through it XXX


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

This is exactly it......I know in my heart that “one more try” but think it’s the reasonable brain that is saying “are you just clutching at straws” - thank you so much hun. You are so good at what to say......

Look forward to hearing how you get on next week xxx


----------



## K jade

No problem hun
no I don't think your clutching at straws. Deciding to go with donor/s is a big step and has a much higher chance of success.  I would be tempted to go for it XX


----------



## MrsC83

Hey everyone
Hope you're all doing ok. Haven't been on in ages as we had another BFN last month. We went straight on holiday the next day which was a godsend to get away although I kept crying on the plane. Must have looked like a total weirdo!! For some reason I've found that not updating people who knew we were doing another round about the BFN was a way of coming to terms with it myself first, but now I have to face reality! 

Sorry for lack of personals, looks like I have a lot to catch up on so I will get reading. Hope you're all looking after yourselves. 
Xxxx


----------



## Aley

Oh girls, I am so sorry! It’s so cruel and unfair. 

Nat1, big hug! I am pro adoption and me and my wife went to an open session to find out more. Unfortunately we found out that adoption will not be possible for us and in all honesty that made the process ten times worse. 
As Jade said, don’t rush to make a decision now, take your time and think through. 
Adoption is great but not necessarily an easy process either. 
Whatever you decide I wish you all the best!

MrsC, I hope you feel better.  

Hi to everyone, k jade, carrie, Northen.


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey Aley

Thank you hun......sorry to hear you have had such a horrible time. Thanks for the support xxx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Thanks KJade.......what would I do without you ladies on the forum - so nice to have somewhere to go where you don’t feel so on your own with a problem - although wish we weren’t all here xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Oh Nat I am bloody devastated for you  truly am!! Are your embryos pgs tested? If your immunes are treated then the soil must be ok so it could be the seed? Obviously it's up to you and what you can take but I would think seriously about Penny's advice, I would trust Penny. If she thinks DS is an option to bring you success then I would. Sending you so much love xxxx 

MrsC83 - So sorry to hear about yours as well  I don't blame for you getting on a flight on holiday. You're right people probably thought why is she crying if she's going on holiday?! Ha if only they knew right? Do you know your next steps? 

Hello everyone else xxxxxx


----------



## Northern

Oh no Nat I am so very sorry, devastated to read this and sending you the biggest hugs. The others are right, just because we've "practiced" this disappointment before doesn't make it any easier when we have to go through it again, if anything I think the strength reserves diminish a little more each time. Please be kind to yourself and give yourself time to properly weigh up the implications of each option, there is no right or wrong just whichever you find you feel more comfortable with. So much love and hugs to you x x x

MrsC likewise, so sorry to read of your bfn, holiday is a great way to deal with it and I hope it helped, did you go somewhere nice? 

Afm the drugs nightmare continues, Orgalutran no longer manufactured and drastically running out of time to get new prescriptions posted. Stressed doesn't even come into it, I just want to crawl into a hole  
Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Northern said:


> Oh no Nat I am so very sorry, devastated to read this and sending you the biggest hugs. The others are right, just because we've "practiced" this disappointment before doesn't make it any easier when we have to go through it again, if anything I think the strength reserves diminish a little more each time. Please be kind to yourself and give yourself time to properly weigh up the implications of each option, there is no right or wrong just whichever you find you feel more comfortable with. So much love and hugs to you x x x
> 
> MrsC likewise, so sorry to read of your bfn, holiday is a great way to deal with it and I hope it helped, did you go somewhere nice?
> 
> Afm the drugs nightmare continues, Orgalutran no longer manufactured and drastically running out of time to get new prescriptions posted. Stressed doesn't even come into it, I just want to crawl into a hole
> Xx


Oh god your stress levels must be through the roof.
I've never even heard of this drug, is there an alternative? Can your clinic email out a prescription? Xxx


----------



## Northern

Through the roof about sums it up! They can email prescriptions but pharmacy needs the original. The pharmacist has suggested asking my gp to write them out as a private prescription, which she may well do, but obv need the clinic to confirm what alternatives they would prefer - have emailed them titled "urgent"! So will see what they say. If it comes to it we'll just have to delay the cycle which I really don't want to do but am pretty stressed   
Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Which clinic are you at? 
Are these drugs available in that country? Xx


----------



## Northern

I'm with Gennet in Prague, I think Orgalutran is available there but I will need to take it before we travel out, want to be out there least amount of time possible really. I have emailed so fingers crossed they reply tomorrow with something helpful! Actually I guess there's always Fertility2u, they accept email prescription from clinic and deliver next day, it's not as cheap with delivery charge but at least it would sort it. About to have a long hot bath, I feel like I need it!!


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey Northern

Thank you hun xxx

Good luck with the meds. Have you tried Ali’s Pharmacy morning in London as they deliver? Also would your clinic deliver the medication to you might be cheaper than fertility 2U 

xx


----------



## Carrie88

Northern said:


> I'm with Gennet in Prague, I think Orgalutran is available there but I will need to take it before we travel out, want to be out there least amount of time possible really. I have emailed so fingers crossed they reply tomorrow with something helpful! Actually I guess there's always Fertility2u, they accept email prescription from clinic and deliver next day, it's not as cheap with delivery charge but at least it would sort it. About to have a long hot bath, I feel like I need it!!


Would it be OTT to get a cheap weekend flight out to Prague to try find some? Bring it back with you? Xx


----------



## Northern

Ha not ott but we live nowhere near an airport and I hate flying so not an easy option really, clinic don't post meds unfortunately, at times I really wish they did! I will see what clinic say tomorrow, nice hot bath has helped a bit so will just go with it and see   xxx


----------



## K jade

Nat without this forum I would not have been able to continue on my journey as I wouldn't have been equipped with the knowledge  regarding the diagnoses me and DH have. it simply wouldn't have been possible and I would have had to move on and accept being childless  long ago. That's not to mention the emotional support you get from the ladies here. We will all get there cause I think everyone does one way or another. I think being open minded to things like donation and adoption are key.  Dreams do come true but the journey is  laden  with compromise , patience, and sometimes damm right stubbornness and refusal  to quit!

Northern hope you have heard something. how much more pricey are Fertility2U?  Id half be tempted to just go with them and take the hit, as this sounds so stressful. I hope that gennet can come up with an alternative and that your local pharmacy can get them for you.


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Very true KJade.......not sure I need to go for counselling just need to come online a little more on to the forum  

Good luck next week.....

xx


----------



## Angedelight

Oh Nat. I've been wondering how you've been getting on, being a fellow Serum girl. I'm so sorry to hear this. We've all had so many BFN on this thread that we all know how painful and downright crappy it is. Counselling really helped me when I was at my lowest ebb last year, I still go now, she's a specialist fertility counsellor. I really hope it gives you space to start processing things. Mine was really helpful when thinking about donor and grieving that me and DH will not have a bio child together. 

Sounds like you have a lot to think about- give yourselves some time. It's good that there are options and you're open to them. It's so hard trying to decide what to do- like you say I wish there was a crystal ball- I regularly say this to DH. Definitely keep using this forum- everyone on this thread totally gets it.

MrsC83- so sorry to hear about yours too. We always book a holiday after a failure- it feels weird doesn't it doing something that most people would really enjoy but you're doing it as a means of getting over something/having a blow out to get over a failed cycle. 

KJade- 'I often scowl at them'. I'm literally laughing out loud!! 😂😂😂

Carrie- yep, I don't think people have experienced infertility in the same way if their first or second worked!. My personality and outlook on life  might have stayed relatively intact had my first or second one worked!! 

Northern- F2U might have a contract with your clinic- they do with Serum and they worked out much cheaper even with delivery than anywhere else. Hope it's sorted.

Aley- sorry to hear adoption isn't an option for you.

Hope everyone else is doing ok

Xx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Thank you Mrs C just taking some time......we seem to be edging towards a DD cycle with Serum.....hope your getting on ok xx


----------



## Carrie88

Ladies would you class this as cd1? 

Brown spotting since Friday - today whenever I wipe the tissue is full of red blood but I don't need a pad as nothing is on my knickers.

I don't know if my period is just super light though cos of the hysterscopy? Xx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey

I would say so.....Penny has always said it’s day of full flow.....i always go by when I see a really good amount of red proper blood hun. My period was lighter after hysteroscopy - sometimes it is especially when they did a scrape of uterus lining during xxx


----------



## K jade

Carrie yes I'd say that sounds like AF if it's bright red. Like Nat said hysto will make it lighter 

Northern any luck with your meds? 

Nat hoping your feeling a little stronger... 

Hope everyone is having a good weekend.. I'm getting nervous about my appointment this week with Mr G...


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey KJade.....

Don’t be nervous you will be fine.....will be interesting to see what his take on you is.....have heard so much about him. Good luck hun xx

I had a major meltdown this morning. Just feeling pretty rubbish about things generally- not feeling great about myself generally and think trying to run before we can walk moving forward. We are both on the same page and are thinking DD may be our path forward xxx


----------



## K jade

Nat that's really good your on the same page.. so many couples come to loggerheads when egg and sperm donation comes into it.
It's early days so u must still be reeling. I always liken a bfn to a blow to the stomach... Except much much worse.. Best to take small steps. 
when your ready u can start to look forward to your DD cycle which WILL get you your baby 

Who was watching Liar? I've just started it as recorded the whole series. Seems good so far
Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Thanks girls. I'm going to call Sharon tomorrow to see when I'm going to be needed in London.

NAT - big hugs to you xxxx sorry you're struggling although I don't blame you - id be the same. Every bfn gets harder to deal with but it's good you and your hubby are both on the same page. Maybe a little weekend break away would do you some good? 

Kjade - you will be fine with dr g  just remember he's not a talker of general chit chat, he just says it like it is. Yes I'm watching Liar! Final episode tomorrow eeek!! Xx


----------



## Carrie88

AF has definetly arrived full flow today.

Baseline scan booked at 1.30pm tomorrow.
Paranoid about this storm though so driving to my sisters in Leicester tonight and then getting the train from there tomorrow xx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey Carrie88 - great stuff......yeah I dont blame you - better to be safe than sorry with all this weather stuff going on.......hopefully wont impact too much......

Thanks hun also for your comments re. me and DH - at the moment although a weekend away would be lovely we have run out of annual leave and also if we are to go again we need to save the old pennies like mad.......

One thing we have been thinking about alot is my immunes - I have raised NK Cells and high TNFA and high anti thyroid antibodies - Penny at Serum does not agree with anything too harsh treatment wise - and thinks that my immunes are covered with the intralipids at ET, prednisolone (5mg during cycle), Clexane, Baby Aspirin - and also a pre-treatment course of Celebrex and predisolone (10mg)........I have questioned her since the cycle not working about this and whether she thinks we should consider the ani-maleria tablets alot of the ladies have spoken about or anything else and she says no that she does not think any harsh is required........hope she is right.......such a tricky one......I know alot of ladies see Dr. Gorgy and have him treat immunes alongside Penny in Serum but unsure whether I want to go against what Serum/Penny think and then if it fails will wonder whether should have just done as they advise........so frustrating all of this........

Looking forward to hearing how KJade gets on this week......

xx


----------



## K jade

great news Carrie! 
I've only  just heard about this storm  
apparently it was due to hit Wales today , but its really nice and sunny here  which is strange. 


Nat do you know exactly what your levels are in terms of Tnfa and NK? did they test for anything else at Serum ? It might be an idea to ask P if you could have copies of everything you've been tested for . you could then take them to Dr G and see what his take on it was ?
you don't necessarily have to go with his advice , just maybe see what his opinions are. 
Or even just get the copies and ask ladies on here what their advice is: is your protocol right or should you be on something stronger? for example with Tnfa if its over 40 Humira is usually advised. I know that P is not keen on Humira though full stop. There's a lady on here called Agate who is brilliant  and could probably give her 2 cents.  I would certainly gather up hard copies of every result you have first off.


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

KJade.....I had the Locus Medicus assay of tests on immunes:  TNFA is 45.43. Penny seems to think the Celebrex in pre treatment, intralipids, steroids, Clexane etc is enough to cover the issues. 

Said on the NK cells Cytotoxicity Assay “The patient’s cytotoxicity level is below the normal range at all ratios. NK cytotoxicity” assume that’s a good thing!?!

Don’t know whether to trust in Penny - which we always have done - or whether to question it elsewhere - I have questioned Penny and she seems happy it’s all covered. 

Thanks for your help hun xx


----------



## K jade

Hmmmm....  So u have normal NKs but high Tnfa. I'm no expert but I do remember reading that intralipids work by suppressing the nk cells which in turn supress the Tnfa. Therefore if your NKs are normal but Tnfa is high intralipids aren't the right thing. (I may well fall into this category)  Humira on the other hand specifically targets and blocks the Tnfa. As does hydroxychloroquine I believe(?) 
Obviously u have to do what's right for u, and I'm not disputing P as she does get results. But I'm perhaps wandering if your institution is right regarding querying this. Will try and get a bit more info on this from Mr G for u.. 

Speaking of which ladies I'm majorly stressing about my appointment. 
Firstly I'm scared of walking into a posh London clinic as I'm not posh and will look stupid 
Secondly I'm worried he'll say I must re do all my tests and add new ones too. 
Thirdly he'll want me to do ivig 
Forthly I am still unwell and can't talk more than 3 words without coughing and spluttering over everyone. 
Fifth I'm also gonna have to pull a sicky in work as we r too short staffed and I couldn't take the day off (although that's the least of my worries as I am actually sick ironically) 
All in all not looking forward to it


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey

Firstly hun do not worry at all - all these clinics would not be there if it wasn’t for the likes of you and I so don’t go thinking in a way you might not be posh or good enough. Stuff that xxx

You just worry about having your questions together and get whatever you need from it to make you feel better about moving forward with anything. Try not to forward worry about what he may prescribe. If your not happy with anything like IVIG you can let him know your concerns. 

Thank you for your reply on my bits. I’m going to ask Penny. 
Good luck

Xx


----------



## Angedelight

KJade- good luck with your appointment. Is it tomorrow?. Is DH going with you?. Hope you feel better soon. 

Carrie- good luck too!. Hope you're feeling ok about it all.

Nat- sounds like you've been doing a lot of thinking. Hope you're ok.

Northern- you're off soon too aren't you?.

Hi anyone else.

I also watch Liar- won't see the last one tonight till tomorrow though. It's been good. Can't wait for the finale. Just started watching Our Girl last week.

Penny emailed me last Friday to say I was good to start, bit unexpected as got thyroid retest this Thursday- she says it will have come down and not to worry. Thought I would  start after that.  Back on the 10 pills/supplements breakfast and clexane injections. Since I did the down reg injection/started taking levothyroxine I've had the worst hot flushes and night sweats. I swear they've got worse. Yesterday I literally wanted to claw my own skin off. I've had a faff trying to get intralipids sorted, I've actually got a bag in the fridge and a cannula set here, DH suggested I watch a YouTube video and teach myself how to do it after I said Healthcare At Home wanted to charge £305!!. Instead I'm going to CGRW to have them Wednesday, £150. 

Seeing the counsellor tomorrow which is probably quite timely.  Doing my usual 'pretend it's not happening' approach by not actually telling anyone we know about what we are doing!. 

X


----------



## Carrie88

NAT - hmm your tnf is high and your steroid dose wouldn't cover it. I also think dr Gorgy would recommend humira. I've only ever seen intralipids and steroids be used for tnf when it's been like 35? What were your levels before transfer? 

MrsC - argh how exciting!! When do you think you'll be transferring? Gutted about the night sweats, I've luckily never had any med side effect. Wow that's so so cheap for intralipids!! Wish I had a clinic closer that charged that little.

Kjade - awww please don't worry. You'll probably be surprised at dr Gorgys clinic - it's really quite old. The toilets are lush though, however his office reminds me of an old headteachers office. I don't think there's many new ones he could add apart from maybe dq alpha? 
I don't think he'll make you re do any unless he sees a need - like he re did a couple of mine cos they were borderline last time. 
Boo to feeling poorly  hope you feel better soon xx


----------



## Baking Queen

Hope you don't mind me butting in ladies.  It's taken me 10 rounds, including five of those being DE, to get my miracle so I hope my experience may be able to help you.  

Kjade - I know we've already 'spoken'.  Good luck with Dr G this week.

I've been following this thread because not long ago, I'd have been on here with you - in fact, I was part of a similar thread a few years ago.  

Nat - I agree with Carrie that a steroid dose that small won't address your high TNF.  Mine was 33 and I was recommended Humira.  When I told my immunes specialist I'd had 10mg of Prednisolone on previous cycles, he said he wouldn't even bother to write it down as it was such a small dose it would have been useless.  I was on 25mg Prednisolone, intralipids, Humira (but was allergic to it), Clexane, aspirin, high dose Vitamin D, Omega 3 and Resveratrol.  Please either challenge Penny or go to see an immunes specialist.

Take care.

BQ. xx


----------



## K jade

MrsC I think some ladies have had intralipids done at home If they have friends or family who are nurses. But crgw are really reasonable so I would also go there. 

BQ thank u and I will keep u posted xx

Thanks ladies. I feel so much better an more confident now about this appointment. This thread is THE BEST


----------



## Northern

Morning ladies, 

Kjade just want to send you big hugs, I'm sure Dr G's will be fine once you get there - you don't need to be posh to experience infertility so don't even think about being out of place, you have every right to be there!  Hope your appointment goes well and he's able to help you or at least give you a second opinion and some good advice.  Big hugs   xx

I can't help with the high TNF or immunes issues Nat but we have such knowledgeable ladies on here! So much good advice.  Hope you're doing ok and reach a decision you're both happy with - try not to rush it, the right path will make itself clear in time. 

We are about sorted with meds, hooray!  Picked them up yesterday, my amazing pharmacist rang my GP and asked her to prescribe alternatives to the things I couldn't get hold of, which she has done, so lovely of them both.  All I'm missing now is the injecting pen for the Puregon - so I have the drug, but can't inject it    Great.  Pharmacist is trying to source one for me.  But all being well we are there.  I'm full of horrible cold and not feeling in the best place for cycling really, but also just want to get on with it.  What will be will be.  Arrrgghhh I really want this to work but not feeling like it will really. 

Love to everyone, hope no one was battered too much by Ophelia! 
Xxx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hi ladies

Thank you so much for all your replies and for your knowledge and advice........

Penny is adamant that she doesnt want to over suppress me - but so torn between the two of worrying I am not having enough - to having too much like Penny is saying.......

I was having Zarzio (Neupogen) in my first two OE cycles with Serum but then my consultant left and I went over to being under Penny who advised we were stopping that........

Dont know whether to "open up a can of worms" possibly by going and having advice from Dr G and see what his take on it would be......or whether to go with the clinic and Penny who we have always trusted.........

Thanks again ladies.......

Looking forward to hearing from KJade........good luck

xxx


----------



## Carrie88

NAT - you defo wouldn't be over supressed. I was on 20mg of pred and my tnf were 30.3 so ok. I'd say it's worth a go seeing Gorgy. You don't have to take his advice.
When I had my follow up for the hysto they told me I was in very good hands having my hysto with them and my transfers under Gorgy so he's obviously well respected there.
I'd say follow your gut xx 

Northern - yaaay I'm so glad the med saga is sorted!! Bet you're relieved. When will you start cycling? Hope you feel better soon xx

BQ - congratulations on your pregnancy!! Xx


I am on route to London.
Watched the last episode of Liar this morning (OMG) I was scared and it was sunny outside haha.

Meeting an IVF instagram friend for lunch and then heading over to Gorgy. I presume I'm going to be on short protocol for FET so no down regging - I've never heard of anyone having a baseline scan on cd2and then starting down regging on cd21 - hopefully it's gonna be baseline, check my oestrogen is ok and progesterone and then start meds xx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey

Thanks Carrie88......have a nice lunch and good luck with Dr G.......really going to have a good think about this - have posted over on the Immunes section too to see whether any ladies have any advice..........thank you hun.........

These are my results of my Immune Assay   


WBC Count: Differential Count:

            8,000/ul%                    Concentration(cells/pl)

Neutrophils        90,1                        7,208
Lymphocytes      8,4                        672
Monocytes        0,8                        64
Eosinophils      0,4                        32
Baseophils        0,3                        24


Lymphocyte Immunophenotypic Analysis:


                                                      %              Concentration                Typical Range
Total Lymphocytes                                                672                                    (1,000-3,500)
CD3+ – T Lymphocytes              55,7                      375                                  (1,000-2,500)
CD19+ – B Lymphocytes              13,7                      92                                  (100-500)
CD3-,CD16+,CD56+ – NK cells      30,6                      205                                  (80-    )


Analysis of T lymphocytes:

CD4+ T Helper Lymphocytes            51,4                    193                        (500-1,500)
CD8+ T Cytotoxic Lymphoc                41,4                    155                        (250-1,000)
CD3+, CD16+,CD56+ 
NK Like T Cells                            7,2                              27                        (15-350)
Ratio CD4+/CD8+                        1,25                                                (1,2-2,6)

NK Cell Analysis:

CD3- CD56+ CD16+      77.7%
CD3- CD56+ CD16-      9,9%
CD3-CD56-CD16+      12,4%

Results: The Natural Killer Cell concentration was found to be slightly increased compared to the mean value of general population (80-170 cells/ul 170 corresponds to the mean +2S.D). Moreover the percentage of Natural Killer Cells was found to be increased (<12% Coulam et al 1995). On the other hand, there was a general decrease in the concentration of CD4+ CD8+ CD3+ and CD19+ Lymphocytic populations probably due to the overall decrease of the percentage and concentration of lymphocytes in the WBC.


NK CYTOTOXICITY ASSAY:

Effector to Target Ratio          NK Cytotoxicity                    Typical Range
  
50:1                                  14.10                                          26-56
25:1                                  9.84                                          15-39
12:5:1                                8.62                                          12-26

Results: The patient’s cytotoxicity level is below the normal range


TH1/TH2 ASSAY
                                      %
CD3+ CD4+ IFNy+        6.00%
CD3+CD4+TNFA+        40.89%
CD3+CD4+IL-10+        0.90%


Ratios                                                    Typical Range
            
CD3+CD4+ IFNyIL-10        6.67            5.8-20.50
CD3+CD4+TNFa/IL-10        45.43        13.20-30.60


Comments: 

The results show that the (CD3+CD4+)IFNy/IL-10 and (CD3+CD4+)TNFa/IL-10 ratios are within and above the normal range respectively. Our control sample was within the typical range.


----------



## K jade

Wow that was an experience lol! 
Carrie I was looking out for u hun, but must have missed u. My appointment was 12.30 I came back into the waiting room at about 1.15 but u must have already gone in. Then I was downstairs in the basement for ages while one of the ladies sorted all my tests 
The good news is he accepted all my previous test results, and looked at each one. But I needed a shed load more as things to do with clotting and antibodies were missing.also I needed the full nk assay. Luckily I did them all after the appointment next door.  Credit card took a battering. Ouch. 
I was worrying for nothing, the clinic was small and quiet and the staff really helpful. 
Nat sorry I meant to ask him about the nk /Tnfa thing but the information at the appointment was so overwhelming my head just went. I will be back there soon so will get another opportunity to ask questions. 
Dr G seemed extremely meticulous in his approach and leaves no stone unturned. 
Oh and I'll be having humira. Just need to wait for my tb results then get prescription for that 

Nat I'm actually clueless about the nk assay as that's the one I haven't had yet and was done today. I noticed u put it on the immunes section. I'm really hoping the lovely agate may take a look for u.  I defo agree with the other ladies about the Tnfa thou. I've been told I need humira and mines 35.5.




I


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Glad it all went well KJade - will be worth the credit card battering hopefully hun ha ha!! Glad it was worth going and hope all is ok with your results 
Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Ohymgod kjade was your app today? 
I thought it was Thursday? 
I'm a bad fertility friend and I didn't wish you luck   I feel well bad!!

Will reply properly when I get home as just on train back but I got there at 1.25 so we must have just missed each other, gutted  xx


----------



## K jade

Aw don't worry hun I might have been confused and originally thought my appointment was on a Thursday glad things went well, look forward to your update 
I'm sat on the coach as train back to Cardiff was £113 
. 
Xx


----------



## Rio2016

Morning all,

Please can i join you? Just had a 4th BFN after fresh IVF with my own eggs. I'm out and about today but will have a read through later this week.

I'm feeling better than expected and haven't cried at all this time! 

Xxxx


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade - hope you got home ok and glad your appointment went well  it's great he accepted your results and picked up on a few extras. Hopefully this may give you an answer to more things. Ring up in about a week as they'll email you any results that are in xx 

NAT1 - yeah those tnf are high - you need humira to bring that down Id say xx

Rio - sorry you find yourself in here hun - here to help whenever you're ready. 



Ok update with me:

Gorgy did my baseline and I'm on short protocol for FET so no Down reg. transfer in 3-4 weeks. 
I'll just copy my instagram post for those who don't follow me on instagram 

1. Neupogen is expensive. £300 for 5 injections. What? Ah well if it brings me my BFP.

2. I'm not down regging. Dr Gorgy is sticking to the oestrogen protocol of the ERA as that came back receptive. 
3. I'm on Lubion and progesterone pessaries.

4. I'm adding clexane from day 5 of oestrogen. 
5. Dr Gorgy has taken my hormone profile and if it's all ok I start oestrogen tablets tonight.

6. Back in London next week for a lining scan on Tuesday at 2.30pm. 
7. I'm going to be having my first intralipids from next week as well.

8. No steroids this time. (I was surprised at that one) but because my NKC biopsy came back low he doesn't want to over suppress me.

9. Dr Gorgy did a mock transfer today -  that hurt!!

10. I'm taking 1500 HCG trigger as well. 

Also I am so angry with his clinic I am making my peace known this morning. 
They've asked us to sign our consent form but we both need to be there as they need to witness us signing it.
We've been there 3x for LIT and at no point has anyone said to us about this or looked in our file and thought oh there consent form isn't in there, they're not local, we'll get them to sign it whilst they're down here.

So a day of my husbands annual leave (he has 6 days left to last till the end of march) and an expensive train journey for a 2 minute form.

I'll probably go on a rant about how I expect this from the NHS but not from a top private clinic!!


----------



## K jade

carrie seriously!? 
that's really poor planning and organisation. 
is it the consent for the IVF ? I really hope we don't have to do that if were just having the immune tx as my Dh really struggles to get time off work, hates coming into any clinic with me, and its bad enough making him come to my NHS clinic which is 2 MILES down the rd from our house.
can they just waiver the witnessing this once? as its their error. id be tempted to ask.....

protocol sounds great though on the upside. yeh ive heard neupogen is through the roof. how many injections u need in total? women with 3 missing KIRs had a success rate of 78% though when taking it so its supposed to be good. 

welcome aboad  Rio. sorry about your bfn. what are your next steps?

this thread has gone pink! we must have been upgraded


----------



## Northern

Carrie I hate when they do things like that!  My clinic has a habit of doing it with blood tests ("oh, you're starting stimms now? well within 4 weeks of egg collection we need the following 10 blood tests....." HOW many chances do they have to tell us these things?)  

I would definitely tell them very strongly how inconvenient it is and how they should have sorted this when you were both there.  Could they arrange for your dh to sign the form eg in the presence of his GP then he could do it closer to home but someone could witness it? 

Rio welcome, so sorry for your bfn.  You'd think this thread would be the most depressing place in the world after all the grief we've all been through but actually it's so lovely!  Glad you're coping ok but do take time if you need it. Xxx 

Kjade glad Dr G was good, sounds like he's v thorough and come up with some good ideas for you. 

No news here, I'm on knickerwatch now waiting for af! 
Xxx


----------



## Northern

PERFECT Carrie!  I love it - feel like sending something very similar to my clinic at times!  

Hope you get a helpful (and quick) response xx


----------



## Carrie88

K jade said:


> carrie seriously!?
> that's really poor planning and organisation.
> is it the consent for the IVF ? I really hope we don't have to do that if were just having the immune tx as my Dh really struggles to get time off work, hates coming into any clinic with me, and its bad enough making him come to my NHS clinic which is 2 MILES down the rd from our house.
> can they just waiver the witnessing this once? as its their error. id be tempted to ask.....
> 
> protocol sounds great though on the upside. yeh ive heard neupogen is through the roof. how many injections u need in total? women with 3 missing KIRs had a success rate of 78% though when taking it so its supposed to be good.
> 
> welcome aboad Rio. sorry about your bfn. what are your next steps?
> 
> this thread has gone pink! we must have been upgraded


It's the consent form for the embryo transfer chick. 
Bloody nightmare. 
I need 1 injection every 4 days. Wow is the thing really that high? What did dr Gorgy say about your missing one? Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Northern said:


> Carrie I hate when they do things like that! My clinic has a habit of doing it with blood tests ("oh, you're starting stimms now? well within 4 weeks of egg collection we need the following 10 blood tests....." HOW many chances do they have to tell us these things?)
> 
> I would definitely tell them very strongly how inconvenient it is and how they should have sorted this when you were both there. Could they arrange for your dh to sign the form eg in the presence of his GP then he could do it closer to home but someone could witness it?
> 
> Rio welcome, so sorry for your bfn. You'd think this thread would be the most depressing place in the world after all the grief we've all been through but actually it's so lovely! Glad you're coping ok but do take time if you need it. Xxx
> 
> Kjade glad Dr G was good, sounds like he's v thorough and come up with some good ideas for you.
> 
> No news here, I'm on knickerwatch now waiting for af!
> Xxx


Well exactly. This is their job man!! 
Hahaha knickerwatch!! When is AF due? Xx


----------



## Northern

Due any day now Carrie eeek xx


----------



## K jade

Sounds great Carrie! Assertive and to the point. X


----------



## K jade

did they reply Carrie? hope they came up with something helpful...

bit of good news from me. my mum has agreed to lend me a grand to help towards the cost of things.  .  I will pay her back via standing order every month. the more I can owe to the parents and the less I can owe to the banks the better. 

northern will you start stimming here then fly over to Czech? xx


----------



## Northern

That's good news kjade, very kind of her  anything to help with costs is a blessing!!

Well after an emotional and stressful morning I am finally sorted (fingers crossed again), you wouldn't believe how hard this has been. My pharmacist tried to get hold of the Puregon pen direct from the manufacturers but they were out of stock, they could have had one sent up from Birmingham but would charge £200 for courier delivery (this is for a _free _pen) and would not discuss any other options with him, he has put in a formal complaint about how unhelpful they are! I rang Fertility2u this morning, who couldn't deliver until Tuesday (so much for their next day/weekend delivery) - cue tearful meltdown in the toilet at work  But then rang Stork - who were absolute SAINTS, can't praise them highly enough - who are sending one to arrive first thing tomorrow morning for all of £20. I did tell the girl on the phone she is a saint, she laughed.

My head feels completely frazzled and I'm a little on edge, but finally I think everything is just about ready to go - cutting it fine this time haha 

Kjade yes we will start stimming here and then go out to Prague about day 12 ish all being well...
Xxx


----------



## K jade

LOL northern. that sounds exactly how I would be! stressing then just having a complete meltdown, then telling whoever was actually able to help me that I loved them. Yup, all of that. 

Wow sourcing drugs sounds like an absolute mission. not something I have had to do before  and not something i'm looking forward too
will be nice going to Prauge I expect at this time of year. all the Christmas stuff will be starting to come out.


----------



## Northern

Ha it is an absolute mission but I don't think it's always this difficult, I just seem to attract ridiculous issues!! 

We've been to Prague in October before and it was lovely, so November will be pretty similar I think, either way it'll be nice to just have a little break (as much as ivf can be considered a 'break')  
Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Yes they did  they called me and massively apologised and have said they're happy for our GP to witness it  
I'm happy with that, I just hope our gp isn't funny about it. 
I'm on day 5 of oestrogen and starting my clexane tonight, eeek!! 


Kjade - awww that's so lovely of your mum  my parents lent me £1,000 for my hysto as well which I'm grateful for.

Northern - I am so glad you were able to source all the drugs but I can't believe the palava you've had!! Crazy and I felt anxious for you so god knows how you felt. Hope you're feeling more relaxed now and ready to start.

Hi to everyone, hope you all have a good weekend xx


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all

Lots going on and to catch up with!

KJade- glad appointment went well. Be really interesting to see what your results come back as and what Dr G suggests you do next time. Despite the ££££s it must feel good to know you're literally testing everything you can. 

Carrie- it's happening!! How are you feeling?. So glad the clinic didn't make you go back to sign that form. I really don't think people realise how stressful it is anyway and that things like that can have a huge impact. I've been on clexane since last Saturday and have a bruise to show for every single jab!. Good luck. 

Rio- welcome. Sorry you find yourself here.

Nat- sounds like you have been doing loads of investigating. You've probably read it but I found 'Is Your Body Baby Friendly' really helpful when trying to get to grips with all the immune stuff. Hope you're making some headway. I also hope you're doing ok.

Northern- what a stress!! Again, do people not know how stressful this all is??. I would have been in tears on the phone to the unhelpful people!. Glad it's all sorted. And glad your pharmacist has put in a complaint!. Do you just literally go for EC then wait about for ET?. 

Baking Queen- what were your immune issues if you don't mind me asking?. Congrats on conquering it all. 

And hooray for kind parents/relatives helping out. My MIL has been very generous. And thank god for interest free credit cards and equity. The amount of home improvement lies I've told to the mortgage people to get funds is ridiculous.

So this week has felt like infertility really is another full time job. I've had to do loads of chasing up and collecting prescriptions. I've had the bloods done that the GP agreed to do. I look like a pin cushion in both arms and stomach.I've done a 3.5 hour round trip to Wales for intralipids. I've had an hour of fertility counselling. And I've had to remember to take all my meds and jab myself daily. Monday I have a lining scan. Literally feel like I'm living a double life as I don't tell anyone any of this!. I did tell my manager- I said that I was feeling a bit stressed with it all but that I felt fine at work but that he needed to know just incase and that I'd need to go to Athens soon. He just looked at me in horror as I think he dreads me going into detail and just said do what you need to!

Have a good weekend all. 

Xx


----------



## Carrie88

MrsC - I feel a bit of everything!! Excited, scared, anxious, nervous. I feel it all!! 
First clexane was a success  no bruise wooo!! How far are you off transfer? Xx 

Gosh it sounds like a busy week for you!! I said the same to hubby on Friday. I had a bit of a meltdown actually as I still needed to book train tickets for London on Tuesday, I needed to print out forms to take my gp for screening blood tests as Gorgy has said ours are out of date, I need to get them to witness us signing the consent form, my thyroid needs checking before transfer and the thought of all the apps were just getting a bit much. So I'm not doing any overtime from next week - just sticking to my Monday - Wednesday contract xx


----------



## Angedelight

Carrie that sounds sensible. Same as you, I'm a range of emotions!. Well done on no bruise, DH must have a good technique!. 

I don't know, Penny gives me 5 days notice. I'm thinking it'll be week beginining 30th? 

It's just me going over as DH starts a new job that week (talk about timing) and he went and did his bit already. I'm fine with that as only going to go for a night and I know Athens well now. The only thing is with this new job DH is away training Sunday eve- Friday eve. When I will be on 2ww. Crap timing!!! Oh well, can't be helped.

X


----------



## Northern

Carrie glad they've seen sense and not made dh go back to sign the form!  Do you have a technique to avoid bruising from the clexane?  I have them every day after transfer this time, they're one of my least favourite injections, so stingy ouch (and not that I really have 'favourite' injections... )

Mrs-C when do you fly out? Sounds like you've had a crazy busy week, it really is a full time job isn't it, I often feel we deserve an extra qualification or something after all this, it's honestly like doing a whole other degree - ideally at the end of it we should all have babies and an 'ivf surviver' certificate on the wall! 

Knickerwatch update from me....Thunderbirds Are Go!  Looks like we'll be in Prague Nov 3rd - 10th, have booked day 7 scan next Saturday and day 11 scan a week on Weds, just eyeing up flights and hotels.....Prague here we come!    
Xx


----------



## Angedelight

Exciting Northern! I'm pretty sure you me and Carrie will be 2ww buddies. 🤞for us all. I don't know when I go, Penny gives me 5 days notice. So you'll definitely have EC on the 3rd?. Do you book now?. I always used to book about 2 days in adavanxe for Athens- gets a bit stressful trying to sort so last minute.

I forgot to say my pregdar was on point yesterday. A member of staff has been looking washed out but has been actually ill and I wondered if she was pregnant too. She is. She's got her scan (12wk) this week then will tell everyone at work. Thank god I know in advance of a huge public announcement. I'm fine if I'm prepared in advance for them! 

Hope this week is good to us all
X


----------



## Carrie88

I don't know but yesterday's was fine as well. Bloody hurt though - stung like a mother F!! Are you injecting at a 90 degree angle? 

MrsC - eeeek so a week today pretty much? Do you have your lining scans here? I thought my clinic was a mission in London, you're really hxc in Greece haha! 
Your pregdar is good. I'm the same as you. Ok if I know about a pregnancy announcement beforehand xx

Northern - yay for AF arriving!! Sounds like a good plan. How expensive is prague? 

I'm off to my GP this morning to beg for these bloods to be taken and for them to witness the signing of the form xx


----------



## K jade

Northern, Carrie, MrsC busy times for you ladies,  may there be BFPs on this thread very very soon!

some of my results are starting to come in from DrG. anti nuclear anti bodies  and anti DS anti bodies came saturday . all negative so that's something. particularly as I don't even know what they are and wouldn't  know what the medication is anyway if I did have them


----------



## Angedelight

Just listened to the Radio 5 piece on infertility which aired yesterday. Oh my god, how emotive. The caller, Claire spoke so well about what it's like to go through it and how it feels. I was in tears as it really resonated with me and I identified with everything she said. I'll put the link up http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b099vz8l

If you're trying to maintain PMA maybe don't listen as she is very raw and her grief and despair can be really heard and felt.

It's just great to hear the reality of it and how it feels for those who aren't lucky enough for it to work the first or second time.

Xx


----------



## Baking Queen

Mrs-C - I also listened to that piece on Radio 5 and found it very moving.  

Of course I don't mind you asking about my immune issues.  I'd suspected I'd had immune issues from my first failed cycle as each time I would get a sore throat and an allergy flare-up around the time implantation was happening.  We didn't test early for the first few cycles but we started to from the third cycle onwards and we found I would get a faint positive very early on, which would then fade.  I have elevated levels of TNF - not too high - 33 - but enough to cause a problem and high levels of NK cells.  I'm told that my blood was put into a pregnancy-like state and tested and it showed that my NK cells only attacked during implantation and once an embryo was implanted properly I was fine.  We'd tried empirical prescribing but didn't really get anywhere and the first time we tried a proper immunes protocol I got my little girl.  I know a lot of people are very sceptical about immunes treatment and say that IVF is a numbers game but I believe it was the missing part of the jigsaw for me.  

Hope that's useful and please feel free to ask me anything.

Good luck ladies.

BQ. xx


----------



## K jade

Sorry for the RANT ladies but so fed up. I have a new colleague who's lovely, she was diagnosed with pcos as a teenager, then diabetes later on. She's still managed to have three children however NATURALLY, 2 in her 20s then the youngest child at 37. This is just one example of someone who seemingly would have difficulty ttc, and outwardly has the odds stacked against them, but has no trouble achieving pregnancy whatsoever. Why do these people not have high Tnfa /nk cells that prevent implantation? Why do I have immune issues that prevent implantation when I don't even have auto immune diseases ? It doesn't make sense 
Does anyone else wander why literally EVERYONE else gets pregnant, (including people with auto immune issues and fertility issues) , but not  them? 
Very frustrated 
I know u ladies get it. Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade - I 100% get it Hun. And those scrubbers on Jeremy Kyle who just pop kids out without even trying. Why don't they have problems? 
I'm even jealous about people who do pgd and IVF and it works for them 1st or 2nd time Cos I think women with fertility problems are getting pregnant - were just doing it to prevent a genetic condition and I can't? Which is a very unfavourable and horrible thought - cos I know they would of had years of ttc naturally but when you get our point - unless you're in our shoes - no one can judge us for how we feel. Big hugs! Hope you're feeling a bit better today after a sleep. 

MrsC - that sounds interesting to hear - I don't know if I'm in a positive enough mindset to listen to that just yet. I may wait a bit xx


So I had my lining scan yesterday and lining is 7.2mm after 1 week of oestrogen. Back down next Tuesday for another scan and I presume transfer will be week beginning 6th November? 

He cancelled my intralipids 😭😭which caused a massive rush of anxiety and panic and caused me to go back and question it as it made me feel uneasy.
He wants me to have intralipids on embryo transfer and not before.

It made me feel uneasy because last year I had high nkc and needed intralipids before ET and steroids - this time no steroids and not having intralipids till ET. 
Dr Gorgy told me he's basing his result on this years nkc results but it's dead hard to switch off from last years and transfer #4 protocol. 
I'm now panicking my nkc biopsy came back low because I had it done too early? 
I know Coventry do the nkc biopsy after 7-10 days after ovulation but dr Gorgy did it with me after day 6 and I'm worried he didn't adjust for that 😭😭😭


----------



## Angedelight

K Jade/Carrie totally get that. I often think why them?. Why should you be able to reproduce so easily (when you have nothing to offer-def think that about some people!) and not us?! It feels really unfair. 

I also know someone (a friend) who already had a 10 year old, did her first IVF cycle at the same time as me and I supported her through it, hers  worked, my 3rd one didn't. She has now has a 3 year old. We lost touch apart from on social media. She got in touch again this year same time I did my last cycle asking all sorts of advice constantly. I should have billed her a fee for how much she asked!. I was too nice to not respond even though it was last thing I needed. Again, worked first time. She said on EC day how she'd got on, I didn't respond as I'd not wanted the contact anyway. She then messages a few weeks later to say oh by the way, it worked, I'm 10 weeks pregnant. Cue absolute meltdown on my part. Why should both of hers go like a dream and work first time and I have to go through this??. Totally get you. I messaged her to say congratulations and said she was very lucky for it to have worked first time both times. Nothing back! No acknowledgement of that or how different it is for me. 

Carrie hard as it is we just have to trust the professionals. I struggle with that too as developed a real mistrust of them during my last UK cycle due to various issues. This is our first DE cycle so lining scans here and just 'pop to Athens' 😂 For transfer! Going to go for one night. On my own. DH went other week and can't get time off.

KJade good news for those tests being negative. Interested to see what else comes back. Do you know what all the clotting tests were? I'm tempted to get them done in Athens as not had any of that done.

Thanks for the info BQ.

Northern how are you getting on?

How is everyone else?.

I had my lining scan on Monday, triple lined and 11.8mm. Think that's good but as I said to a friend, we have to now hope my immune system doesn't slay the embryo's!. I'm thinking transfer will be next Weds/Thurs. Really hope it's not the Friday as it's my birthday and we are meant to be going to Cornwall for the weekend. Hope to find out today.

Xx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey Carrie88

I know how you feel re. questioning what your consultant/specialist advises - but remember why you went to him in the first place - you went to him for his specialise immune advice - I know it is hard but you have to have faith in them its why you went there........although it is good to ask questions, dont get me wrong, but he seems pretty sure on his advice to you.......my clinic are very insistent on my protocol for immunes - they are excellent in answering all the questions I have about my concerns re. immunes but explain each and every answer and why they know what they are doing - so me and DH have to have faith in that (or of course you dont and move on and ignore it - but we went there for their expertise).......hope that makes sense xxx

KJade.......it is so hard and I get where your coming from   - my sister in law is due her second baby - it is coming by c section on 31st October - and they are moaning that they dont like that day for the baby to be born because it is halloween    seriously!!!!!........this is their second baby.......the only thing I think is that maybe we would have had that attitude if we had not been through what we have been through to try and achieve our family - would have probably taken the whole process of having the baby etc. etc. for granted because you would not have any idea on how much of a miracle it is etc. etc........try not to let yourself get too involved in thinking about others etc. etc. - I know easier said than done at times -  I find it better to just put alot of it all down to ignorance for others (which they would be as they would have no idea if they have not suffered infertility) - but also the people that have got pregnant after one round of IVF I envy them, but in a good way - they are the lucky ones but they would have all still had their story and struggles to get to that point (if you get what I mean)......basically in this whole process I think I have just learnt that we are all on our own journeys and no one really will know what each one of us has struggled with - we just read BFP and pregnancy news and feel envy (but have to remember I suppose that they were one of us before getting that longed for BFP and pregancy).......it is hard at times - and I am sure for me and DH when our nephew is born next week we are going to have mixed emotions of love for our new nephew and massive envy and feeling sorry for ourselves too......look after yourself........concentrate on getting those results back and have hope that your positive decision to go and see this Dr G works out a positive thing for you........

Mrs C.......good luck - lining sounds brilliant........are you having immune treatment alongside your cycle hun?

xxx


----------



## Northern

Kjade rant away! It's so frustrating.  Also frustrating that we seem to wind up knowing all these bizarre details about people, ie that the new colleague happens to have pcos - something I'd never even heard of until we started all this!  I hate analysing other people's fertility, it just seems to happen now doesn't it, what weird things infertility does to our minds, it's no wonder it doesn't take much to set us off! 

Carrie, sorry you're having doubts, it's so hard to continue to put trust in clinics when we've repeatedly suffered failures, but Dr G does know his stuff and I'm sure there is a strong reason behind it.  It'll be nice to have some tww company with you and Mrs-C, we can enjoy the torture together! 
Mrs-C that's awful of your friend, does it really not cross people's minds what others might be going through?  Don't blame you for having a meltdown - really, why do people need to rub it in on top of all we're already dealing with?? A little acknowledgement wouldn't go amiss would it!

Nat, 'they don't want a Halloween baby' seriously?!  Haha, you have to laugh really don't you - you're right these are probably thoughts we all would have if we had the luxury of actually getting pregnant without help!  Good luck with the inevitable mixed emotions xxx

Afm I'm feeling down today but no particular reason why.  Just weighing down on me I think that I'm not expecting this to work and there is just a massive black void gaping ahead of me when we have to face that.  It's also on my mind that if these eggs don't fertilise I'll be under pressure - mostly from dp - to transfer one of our frozen donor sperm embies instead, which I'm really not sure I want to do. Hoping not to have to face that but also want to pre-think it all out so it's not a panicked rushed decision if it does come to it.  Wondering if adoption could be a route for us after all?  All going round my head with no possible resolution.  Sort of in denial that this is cycle #5 and we're really in the s**t now!  Injections are going fine though and I have first lining scan on Saturday, so all ticking along as well as it can. 

I listened to that radio interview last night, god that could have been me, she hit on every emotion, wanted to give her a massive hug and tell her she's not alone and that this all really sucks!


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey Northern

I know - seriously   love them both to pieces but sometimes you could just scream ha ha!!!!........unfortunately its life though - just a bit crappy for us unfortunately - get through it though xx

Sorry to hear you are feeling down today - I get days like that - where for some reason it feels like its all hitting me all at once and feels overwhelming for some reason - whereas normally day to day you deal with each "issue" or "problem" seperately and doesnt take you over - then there are those odd days every now and then that hit you and its horrible - although I think its all part of the process and in a way (in a weird way) it is good hun as you need to work through all these things in your head and get yourself into a good space - so its good you have come on here and vented and try and work through all these things that are bothering you.......make sure you talk with your DP and decide whatever is going to be best for you both should the worst happen - although on the same hand try and think positively that you will get some lovely embryos and wont have to think about the donor embryos (if your not ready for that)......also if you are thinking that adoption may be a path you could possibly consider at some point - then maybe donor sperm wouldnt be such a bad decision (although maybe that is just my way of thinking - hope you dont mind me saying).....but its worth getting on the same page as such now so that when and if that decision (if it came to that) has to be made it wont be a panicked last min thing.......  all I can recommend is just to talk, talk, talk - its always works for me - even though I think I dont want to talk, when I then do I find it helps me work through all the crap.........

xxx


----------



## K jade

Carrie I  don't think there would be much difference in uNKs if you had biopsy  on day 6 or day 7-10 . or maybe a 0.something of a percentage, so wouldn't worry. 
I know it can cause quite a lot of anxiety when Dr's change things. I'm really stressing about being on long protocol when I've always responded well on short. I think what you need to tell yourself is that because  it hasn't worked before the Drs will try new tactics and make changes. that's what made me feel better when my consultant changed my protocol. but I would defiantly trust Dr G. he's got the knack for this. this is your time!  great news on the lining .

urgh Nat really?. that would seriously get my back up. she had some exciting plans for Halloween that have been de railed then? how awful. must say I've never got the whole 'adults celebrating Halloween thing' . I always thought it was for children but each to their own  

MrsC regarding clotting I had a test for inherited thrombophilia done in march this year. then Dr G noticed that MTHFR and a PAI gene were missing so tested for them as well waiting for those results but  so far no clotting issues have been identified with me.  oh gosh what a friend eh? yeh i sort of feel worlds apart  from people who's IVF journey is straightforward.  that's why I started this thread. for ladies who 'get it' and have been there as we all have. 

northern sorry your feeling down hun. I've been there with DS and it was such a hard decision. I suppose  for us it was literally our only option so in a way that made it easier. right now you are using OS/OE so focus on that . its so overwhelming to think of  an ivf cycle as there are so many things that need to go right, responding, egg collection ,  fertilisation, getting to blast, getting some to freeze. like they say , never look at the top of the mountain when your trying to climb it, just focus on putting one foot in front of the other.


----------



## Angedelight

The path of infertility does not run smoothly. On the plus side I don't have rheumatoid arthritis but on the negative side the stupid thyroid is still 3.81. Waiting for a response from Serum. So that'll be another load of medication, scan and intralipids down the drain most likely as don't see I can transfer with it that high. 
FML.
Glass of wine as soon as I get home! 
X


----------



## K jade

Oh my God MrsC arrrgghhhh. How frustrating.. 
U must just wanna bang your head on a wall right now. What have u been on, thyroxine /lethroxine? Possibly to up dose? 
May I join u on that note. More gorgy results on the door mat when I got home. 
MTHFR gene mutation POSITIVE 
and best of all inconclusive TB result. Needs to be repeated. May not be able to have humira  

Carrie are u positive mthfr? What do I take for it? X


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade - no I'm not chick. If you're mthfr positive you can not take folic acid - you need to take folate. And nothing with folic acid - like certain cereals. That could be another missing puzzle piece.
That's crazy about the TB thing - I don't think I've ever had that test. What does that mean? Didn't we have that jab in school? Xx

MrsC - ohmygod poop :/ gutted for you Hun. What thyroxine dose are you on? My level was 3.64 and I remember 2 weeks of thyroxine got it down xx

Phones gonna die, it's on 2%  - will reply more and in detail to everyone when I get home xx


----------



## Angedelight

Carrie/KJade I'm on 50mg of levothyroxine and have been for 5 weeks! It's barely moved. I've just read the info leaflet and it says prednisolone interferes with it?? 
Sooooo hacked off. No response yet.  Carrie what dose did you take??
X


----------



## Gulnaz

Hi

Sorry to barge in on the group. 
Just had our 5th cycle fail. I have PCOS and it seems to be an egg quality issue. We tried immunes on this cycle also even though i have no problems. The embryos dont appear to implant. At our review appt consultant advised pgs. We have never got to a blast stage so dont know how its going to work. Paying all that money ontop of an ICSI cycle. Anybody offer any advice? I am 37 yrs old. TIA x


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey

Welcome. I looked at your signature - if you only had one egg fertilise out of 8/11 collected I would lean towards thinking there is posdibly an egg or sperm issue - or if all ok with your eggs and sperm would look at posdibly the experience of the embryologists dealing with your ICSI. 

If you haven’t I would be getting sperm checked and question your clinic on whether they consider an egg issue if they collected a good number and only 1 fertilised. 

Obviously that is only my opinion from my experience. 

Good luck xxx


----------



## Carrie88

MrsC - Does it? I thought pred helped suppress your thyroid. I was on 50mg with the NHS but dr Gorgy put me on 25mg. He tested my thyroid on Tuesday and said all results were fine so guessing he's happy with the level. Any reply yet? I'm so gutted and anxious for you. When was the last re test? Are you taking it first thing? No food/dairy for an hour after taking it? Xx

NAT - you are right. There was no point me moving to Gorgy if I didn't trust him and my last protocol didn't even work so I should be flexible with changes. Great advice!! 
As if your sister in law is complaining about that - if only she knew the journeys some people went on who'd just be happy with a baby born on any day of the week xx

Northern - sorry you feel sad today  I think we all have those meh days. It's to be expected given all the negative transfers and cycles we've had - why would we think it's going to work? I know it's hard but at the moment you have no reason to not think this is gonna be a great cycle. 
Make sure you chat to DP as well about a back up plan. I think that's sensible. We need the chat of if this one doesn't work what's our next step? Makes me sick and scared to think about - but it's needed. Hope you feel better today after a sleep? Xx

Kjade - thanks lovely!! You really don't think having it 2 days early would of changed the result from low to high? Xx

Gulnaz - sorry you find yourself in here  that's a tough one. Have you tried anything to improve your egg quality? Metformin cos of the pcos? Ubiqional? Omega 3? Vitamin D? Xx


----------



## Angedelight

KJade- much as it's more to get your head around at least these results coming back might shed some light on why it hasn't happened yet. So much googling to do! Hope your ok and it doesn't feel like overload.

Northern- so many more options and good to be aware of then but try and put your faith into this one too. Much easier said that done, i know. It's so much harder as you go on to have that positivity after failed cycles. Keeping everything crossed for you.

Nat i wish I could think as positively as you! I can sometimes and I'm the eternal optimist at work but not with all this!! I've been on a pre-treatment plan of 10mg steroids for 4 weeks and intralipids 2 weeks before transfer followed by more intralipid at ET. I have high NK bloods cells. Not had biopsy. TFNa normal. 

Carrie- why hasn't mine come down?! Everything I've read says it should have and 3 Drs said it would!!! All the other bits are fine so it's not graves or hashimotos. No response yet. This has happened so many times with stupid cycsts delaying treatment etc. It's so frustrating. If you remember it was the thyroid that delayed it in September. If it doesn't go ahead in meds/scans/scratch with the cancelled September one it'll be around £750 wasted!!! Could cry now I've worked that out. I take it first thing and eat an hour later. Retested last Thursday. 

Gulnaz- I *think* fertilisation issues might be sperm? Have you had an indepth analysis? Sorry you find yourself here.

Xx


----------



## Carrie88

MrsC - I am honestly at a loss. Like I say I remember when mine was 3.64 and guys quickly put
Me on thyroid meds (50mg) and it came down to 2.43 or something like that in 2 weeks. (Guys like it to be under 2.5). What was it before you started meds? 
That's so strange and upsetting and frustrating that all that money may be for nothing  
I hope serum reply to you this morning. Sending you big big hugs xxxxx


----------



## Angedelight

4.36 or something like that. So 5.5 weeks of 50mg and it's moved by 0.5, not 2.0!! 😂 Absolutely bloody typical that I am the anomaly! X


----------



## Carrie88

That's crazy **** 
Sorry I can't offer you any advice bud - I've never heard of thyroxine not working.
I'm off to work now but will check this page on my lunch. 
Hopefully you'll have some sort of update then from serum xx


----------



## K jade

Oh MrsC that's just beyond upsetting. 
are there any alternatives to thyroxine?
are there any vitamins or supplements you can take with thyroxine that can make it work better? whats your freeT4? I would find out what that is as thats the important one, TSH is only used as an indicator of what freeT4 might be. call up your GP and ask. 
also you may want to ask on the Thyroid chat thread under the immunes section. I've had lots of helpful answers on there when I've posted a thyroid query. not particularly helpful to you at this stage but my thyroid appears to have rectified itself (it was borderline) by me cutting down on sugar and processed carbs like white bread, cakes , biscuits etc.  also ubiquonol taken daily , ferrous sulphate iron, and macca  helped a lot too. my TSH was always fine , but my freeT4 was on the cusp at just 12. its now 16.5  so  in a good range. sorry I know that's not really particularly useful right now  as you are about  to transfer but thought id share. 
hope you hear from serum soon... 

carrie yeh I had it in 1998/99 I think at high school (long time ago lol). I still have the scar. thing is when I went to DrG for all my bloods I had that horrid cold and cough. im half wandering if that's affected the results.  I will need it repeated. I really hope I CAN have humira. 
MTHFR is such a confusing one. I have googled lots and still don't fully understand what MTHFR is.  
it just said on my printed  results 'this person is a carrier of the MTHFR hererozugous mutation gene blah blah ....'
then I googled and it said things like 'cant tolerate alcohol' 'migranes' 'cant absorb vitamins properly'  which is me all over. 
anyway I probably shouldn't be over analysing as only DrG will have the answers as to what to take for it..

xx


----------



## Angedelight

Well after all that the plan is to continue!
I emailed Penny who said they were ok but would need monitoring if I got a positive result and I emailed Amanda at CGRW who tested the TSH and she said that it takes awhile to come down, increase to 100mg a day and it will continue coming down and continue with plan.
Transfer next Weds!
KJade My T4 was 16 and all the antibodies etc all normal. I take ferrous sulphate anyway, don't eat anything processed and limit sugar.
Thanks for all the hand holding today and last night. This thread is the best!
X


----------



## Northern

Mrs-C what a relief!!  Never straightforward is it, so glad they've got back to you and it's reassuring, eek next Weds will soon come round xxx

Gulnaz sorry you find yourself here.  I agree have you asked about metformin?  My clinic have irritatingly refused to prescribe it but it's meant to be good to regulate pcos.  Also maybe read up on ways to improve egg quality, 'It Starts With the Egg' by Rebecca somebody (sorry can't remember last name but can check later), has some good suggestions. 

Thanks for all your support lovely ladies, I'm feeling a little better than yesterday, after a dramatic breakdown on dp last night!  He does know how I feel about the whole donor thing and knows I'm wrestling with it.  He still thinks it's our best option but we're very respectful of each others thoughts and will just have to cross bridges as we get to them.  You're right - can't climb the whole mountain just yet!
Xxx


----------



## Bettyville

Hi ladies,
I haven't posted on here in a while as we've been busy getting all our tests done. 
My DH had a DNA frag test / karotype - the Karotype was fine but the fragmentation has come back at 28%, usual cut off is 25% - Dr has recommended ICSI. 
My thyroid is slightly high at 2.9 too and we're just waiting now on my AMH - had my scan / blood tests this morning.

However, we're just exhausted by this all. I really don't know if i want to do this again. My DH is bummed out about his results too - does anyone know anything about DNA results, is 28% really bad?

Betty


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade - how come you're not immune to it then? How does that affect transfer? MTHFR just means you can't absorb folic acid properly - dr g will probably reccomended a good quality folate for you. Don't worry about that  

MrsC - yaaaay that's amazing news you can still transfer!! Fingers crossed that double dose will work it's magic. How you feeling? Xx

Northern - glad you're feeling better today, taking it one week at a time is always good mentally.

Bettyville - sorry you're feeling exhausted and bummed out. Your husbands results aren't the worst. He'll need some good supplements and they'll just pick the best bunch of the lot using the icsi. Good luck with your amh levels xx


----------



## Bettyville

Thanks Carrie. That's what i think, i've read some who have more fragmentation than us so i just have to keep my DH's spirits up now. 
My AMH is low, i know that already so i'm not holding out! TBH, we're at that point now where if the Dr tells us to walk away / it's not worth it, we would probably do that! It's been 6 years for us, x3 failed IUI's / x2 failed IVF's and only a bunch of health issues now to show for it all. So we're pretty exhausted.
Not sure if he'll give him any vitamins but we'll just wait and see - my DH luckily is v open to it all so that's a positive!

Hope you're doing ok xxx


----------



## Gulnaz

Hi

Thank you for all your replies.
On all cycles we used ICSI. We had a sperm frag test done at Reprofit and all was fine. Have been taking Metformin now for 2 years. I have tried inositol, melatonin and coq10 also. 
Thank you will look into the book it starts with an egg xx


----------



## Angedelight

Hi Bettyville. At our clinic-Serum- the sperm improvement program which lots of men see great results with is vitamin C 1000mg, Vitamin E 400iu and doxycycline for 40 days. My DH took all that plus steroids from end of Juky until his sample in October and there was a significant improvement across the board. He was so good and didn't drink either and ate well. And out with the old in with the new sperm on a regular basis! 😂 

I know what you mean about being exhausted, i frequently say it's like another full time job!. My thyroid has been high too and I'm taking levothyroxine to bring it down. Good luck with the rest of your results.

Gulnez I had a significant improvement in embryo quality after following the advice on 'It Starts Wity The Egg'.

Carrie- I was crying this morning and feeling angry, now I'm back to anxious/excited! Bloody rollercoaster!. Luckily I've been off today so I've booked everything. Fly Tues, come back Weds eve, stay at my brothers then home Thursday morning. Then  I'm off for for a long weekend anyway. This time next week I'll be PUPO! Round number 7 please be the one! 🙏

Hi everyone else 
X


----------



## Carrie88

Eeeek I made excited for you and great you've managed to book everything.
Sounds like you're going to be very busy which will hopefully make the 2ww go fast!! 

Ladies do you think there's a wrong way to do clexane? 
I have a small pin prick bruise where my husband has done each jab but no bruising.

When I was on fragmin I bruised awfully....


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey Carrie88

Clexane is known to bruise - its a real pain to inject without a bruise - I managed a couple of times by injecting at a 90 degree angle - instead of straight in to the tummy - and also I found that if I gently pushed where I had injected after for a few seconds didnt seem to bruise.......its always stings like mad.......good luck - sounds like hubby is doing a good job if only getting a little pin prick mark instead of big bruises.......but think either way with or without bruises it is going in and working........probably where it is a blood thinner makes the bruising worse anyway

xxx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Ladies - quick question - are any of you taking probiotics? If so, which ones are you taking? - I started taking Solgar ones, then bought Natures Best - but want to make sure I am taking a really good quality one which is advised during IVF etc.

xxx


----------



## K jade

Great news MrsC!! 

Carrie no idea about Clexane I'm afraid but I doubt your doing it wrong. As long as needle goes in and the liquid goes in thats all u need worry about 

Nat not sure but I did hear somewhere that the best pro biotic was full fat Greek yoghurt OR kefir yoghurt drink which u can now buy in most supermarkets


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Thanks KJade........I love greek yoghurt although trying to be dairy free as much as possible to help with high TNFa and inflammation.......the almond milk yoghurts I have had have live cultures in them etc........but want a good quality probiotic supplement as again have heard this can help with inflammation in the body.........just dont seem to have much luck getting advice on which would be suitable during IVF.........


xxx


----------



## Bettyville

Thanks Mrs-C, we have our follow up on Tuesday so let's see what happens. 
i knew i should have followed my head - all along i've been saying we should have the test and now, 5 treatments later we find out! Our current clinic / consultant didn't think there was any point as DH had a good sperm analysis but it's the new clinic/consultant who really thought we should to rule out anything else that's not been caught as we're unexplained. Well this could be an explanation now! Feels like we're back to square 1, almost as if we're starting all over again.

Anyway! happy Friday ladies - it's a beautiful day here in London, hope you all have a lovely weekend x


----------



## K jade

Nat I think I heard that too actually yeh.
so is dairy bad for inflammation? yikes! I have everything. milk, cheese, cream yoghurt!
do solgar do anything? they seem to be the best quality vits and supplements. 

betty sunny here in wales too. lets hope it stays this way for the weekend  


jeez im really doing bad with the healthy eating. just eating [email protected] all the time. didn't even have lunch today , just a Satsuma and 3 chocolate digestives. 
this is NOT what it said to do in that starts with the egg book. this is also NOT an anti inflammatory diet.


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

I love dairy - yoghurt, milk, cream the lot but I read a lot about gluten and dairy affecting inflammation within the body. I am gluten free - and virtually dairy free although not 100% yet on the dairy but near enough. 

Yeah Solgar do a few but wasn’t but sure if they would be the best ones or not. 

Xxx


----------



## Carrie88

No idea about the probiotic, sorry lovely, I've never taken one. 

I have reduced my dairy this past month cos of how it can affect pcos but I used to eat a lot of it. We used to go through about 6 pints of milk a week just because I used to drink pints of it, now we're not even going through 1.
I asked my friend whose a dietician in the NHS about the gluten bit and she did advice me not to do it unless for a medical reason - which is good cos I don't think I could lol.

I'm also eating badly. It's hard cos I'm just so tired with the meds, working and travelling up and down to London - today I had KFC for lunch and then biscuits and crisps this afternoon :/ 

We had dominoes when I get back from London on Tuesday as well xx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

No problem. I’m
Not having much luck with advice on it at all ha ha!!

It’s funny as not been diagnosed ceoliac but not eating gluten I feel better for it. I actually find cutting dairy harder which is why not 100% there. 

I think a little bit of everything is good for us within reason and sometimes you need some “rubbish” as it’s soothe the soul   can’t beat a Dominos 

Xx


----------



## Angedelight

Nat- solgar are a good brand and seem to be recommended in infertility land a lot. I've used their supplements but not the pro biotic.

Carrie and KJade- someone bought a box of miniature heros into work today at 730am. That was breakfast!! I do eat really well usually but chocolate and cake are my weakness!. 

Bettyville- I know how you feel- just been through the same with my immune system stuff. I asked for it to be tested last year and was told they treat empirically, then test this year and it needs much more than that. So frustrating isn't it?.

Well the latest drama is that I just found out via a social media group that Serum no longer do all the STD bloods that you need in date on the day of transfer. They need it all in advance. Check mine. Expired 21/10. I expected to be able to get them done there same day as I always have. E mail Penny who confirms this is no longer possible.. Serum usually do them for €110. I'm now working Sat aft, all day Sunday, Monday aft and travelling all day Tuesday. All private clinics that might do it at vast expense (£300+) are shut over the weekend and I just don't have time or the money. I've sent an email saying they need to sort it as I don't expect to find this out from social media and not them. What if I'd turned up for transfer expecting it to be done the normal way??.

DH goes 'oh this is all so stressful'. Really?? As if he'll be the one manically phoning round tomorrow and rushing around Monday to get bloods if it comes to it in between doing a million hours and getting ready to go.

Hope everyone is having a more relaxing weekend than me 😂 
X


----------



## Angedelight

Oh Carrie- I've stopped bruising but have pin pricks from each jab so don't worry. As long as it all goes in! X


----------



## Carrie88

Oh no  
That's bad you found out via social media. 

We're in a similar position as dr Gorgys office told us last week all of our std bloods needed re doing so we've booked in on Monday at the gp but the slow rate of the NHS is cutting it fine if transfer is the week after. 
I handed in my chlamydia urine kit in yesterday and that takes 7 working days. 

I would also argue my case that you found this out via social media which is unacceptable.


----------



## K jade

No MrsC that's not on 
They needed to email u way in advance. Your a paying customer.
Like Carrie said before these are the kind of muck ups you'd expect from the NHS.
If yours only expired on 21st of this month can't they cut u some slack? I mean what do they think uve done in that one week since it ran out.. . Gone out and rampantly caught chlamydia off everyone!?! 
Seriously, they really should just apply some common sense. It's their error 

Mmmm.. Domino's, KFC and chocolate all things I could eat right now 

I'm really tamping right now as it dawned on me last night that I should probably get this TB test repeated ASAP, so that I have the result ready to take to my next Dr G appointment, and he can then decide what way we're gonna go with the humira. 
So I looked into the cost of getting it done here privately... £179!!!!
I mean seriously!!! 
Just for a Blxxdy tb test. 
Plus if I DO have latent Tb antibiotic treatment to clear it takes months. I can't take those kind of delays so I guess if it's positive I'll have to opt for a humira alternative. I really don't want a shed load of antibiotics that ll  probably make my immune issues even worse anyway. Let's just hope my next test is negative..


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade is so right Mrs C. I posted a post yesterday on my instagram about the awkwardness of a married couple handing in a clamydia kit at the doctors and someone put as if someone going through ivf has the time or energy to be sleeping around, having affairs and getting sti's. It proper made me laugh!!!

Argh private tests are so expensive. 
The blood screening for marks LIT was £270 just to say he didn't have hiv etc. 
Bloody ridiculous. Are you just gonna bite the bullet and do it? 

I called up London acupuncture clinic yesterday - they're in the same building as dr Gorgy but not affiliated with him. 
£70 consultation.
£60 for pre transfer.
£60 for post transfer.

I was like erm I live in Wirral and paid £5 a consultation and I'm cheap and do the multi bed for £15 a week. Northern discount please haha!! 

Anyway I'm booked on Tuesday after my app with him for my consultation so I can then do the pre and post one after.

My husband was like I'm not paying for that, you can pay for that out of your own money haha xx


----------



## K jade

Ha Carrie that's London prices for you! 
Lol I know it's a bit like when my locus medicus 'HIDDEN CHLAMYDIA TESTING KIT' was kindly collected by my helpful neighbours. They've never looked at me the same since. 

Omg just seen a post on social media about someone talking about how awful ivf and infertility is. She had one attempt then got natural bfp 
Really....!? Am I a complete cow?  . clearly my bitterness is now not only reserved for fertile people but now also people less infertile than me! 
Wow. 
Then someone commented underneath how awful infertility must be and she couldn't imagine it, as she had 3 children. Yes you probably can't imagine it. So kindly shut up. Really doesn't help when peeps say things like that as it completely reinforces what you ARE missing out on. 

Anyway should I just try my GP for the tb test.? They'll make me jump through hoops but 179 is a lot.... Worse thing is it's Saturday so cant even do any ringing round to investigate.. Arrrgghhhh


----------



## Carrie88

Hahaha ohmygod yes I forgot about that bad boy.

Of course that doesn't make you a bad person.
I'm the same - there's a few insta people like that on mine I've unfollowed.
There's a group of girls on there I'm close to who are all pregnant now and I still follow them because I care about them and love seeing their updates.
Anyone though who I don't have a lot of interaction with who gets a bfp I unfollow. 

I would.
My gp is doing our screening bloods even though the letter from Gorgy is clearly a private clinic. It's saving us though like £400 all together xx


----------



## K jade

Carrie I've just realised that as  I work with vulnerable peeps, (homeless, refugees, some drug users etc),  I've  I may have the perfect reason to request the test, as  my gp won't endorse any tests for private Fertility treatement. 
I'm going to tell gp someone on my caseload has tb and I'm really worried as I'm about to have ivf. That should put a rocket up them..


----------



## Angedelight

Carrie & Kjade, literally laughing out loud- The only person I'd have time to have an affair with is the pharmacist I'm there so often 😂😂😂 

Serum have sorted the bloods for me thank god. A ranty email did the job. You can get a postal kit and get it all done for £80 IF you know in advance and have time... £270 is daylight robbery Carrie! Infertility is like a black hole when it comes to money. And the accupuncture cost!! I get to the point where I'm like what's another few hundred?!. Not that I have money to burn by any means but it's all so expensive! If I get a BFP I need intralipids every 2 weeks until 12 weeks apparently. £150 a pop and a 3 hour round trip.

I follow a lot of interiors people on insta. The minute they put a scan photo/make a baby announce they are gone!. Unfollow. KJade- great more people are taking about infertility but one round followed by a natural BFP is a happy ending if you ask me! I wouldn't be mentally scarred with that outcome like I am going into round 7 after all we've been through.

KJade- yep use that to get the test done. 

Hope everyone is having a nice weekend. I'm working all weekend which is good as it stops me thinking about this coming week too much.
X


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade - good idea. The gp should defo do it then. Does this tb thing affect ivf? Or is it just cos of the humira? Xx

MrsC - thank god you got it sorted. I do like a ranty email! It gets things done.

I'm not well ladies  
Really worried being unwell with transfer being so close.
I started feeling not 100% on Monday - you know that feeling where you're fine to carry on with your day to day things but you know it can go either way? 

Well I deteriorated yesterday. Quite badly. Sore throat, feel sick, muscles ache, eyes sting and hurt to blink. Thought I was getting tonsilitous as I've developed white spots on my tonsils but been told by 2 friends they're actually tonsil stones so I picked them out this morning with tweezers (nice!!) 
I feel rotten!! I can't be unwell w/b 6th November. I need to be better!!


----------



## K jade

Great news MrsC! .. Although bet u could have done without the stress 

Carrie remind me what drugs are u on? Could this be a side effect of your immune system being suppressed? 
Can you take the week off work? I would try and rest up, stay in  bed, watch rubbish on TV and just generally try look after yourself till transfer.. Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Only oestrogen and clexane so defo no immune suppressants there.
I'm in Monday, London Tuesday, in Wednesday and then I'm not gonna book any overtime for Thursday or Friday xx


----------



## Northern

Oh no Carrie you poor thing! Urgh I've never even heard of tonsil stones, that doesn't sound pleasant  try to take it easy if you can but it'll be a busy week - but maybe if immune system is already a bit lower it'll be good news for any embryo trying to implant - can it work like that? 

I had day 7 scan yesterday and have 8 good size follies on one side and 4-5 on the other, some are already 12x10mm so all on track so far I think and lining about 9.2mm and trilaminar  , have booked flights on Friday and apartment in Prague - just got to hope everything still ok at next scan on Weds and fits in with my timetable! 

Mrs C glad you got sorted with Serum, that kind of thing doesn't sound like them! So frustrating but well done for getting sorted.
Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Ha northern I hope it does!!
I'm not going into work today. I'm too unwell. I'm staying off and trying to get better for next week. 

Good news about your follicles - hopefully you've got some lovely eggs in there. I'm crossing everything for you xx


----------



## Carrie88

Ohymgod freak out.

I bought extra strength cold and flu tablets on Saturday but people on the pgd group told me not to take them so I then bought paracetamol. 

Husband was making me hot drinks yesterday and I thought he was putting paracetamol in it but he was putting in the extra strength tablets!! 

Have I ruined everything? Contains paracetamol, caffeine and hydrochloride xx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey Carrie

Dont worry hun........you wont have ruined everything.......it is advised not to take them in pregnancy but I really wouldnt stress yourself at this stage of your cycle......just dont take anymore from today.......drink lots of hot water with fresh lemon squeezed in and honey - works wonders........also one of my natural things I use is Organic Apple Cider Vinegar (with the mother in it) - I put a dessert spoon in a little bit of water and drink it back (then rinse out your mouth with water so as to not let the vinegar sit on your teeth) but basically it works wonders when you think you are getting a cold, and also stops anything lasting as long as helps to alkaline the body........

Dont stress - get lots of rest and if you need to take anything then just take paracetamol with lots of hot fluids.......

xxx


----------



## Bettyville

Hi ladies,
How are you? Hope you all had a nice weekend.
So it turned out to be a nightmare of a weekend for me - my eczema and anxiety are currently showing their ugly face again and coupled with that, bad luck really does come in 3's!!
Saturday - my best mate has her baby (she also had a v hard time via IVF), shortly after (like 1 hour later) my cousin facetimes me to let me know she's expecting her 2nd, she's been married for 3 years (compared to 9 over here!) and that evening we had to go to a first birthday party - literally days a year to the day before my 1st IVF cycle failed last year!

WHY?

I've changed my job, i'm now a freelancer and am in a really interesting role but i just don't feel like I can cope with this now - i've been wanting to not work since i took voluntary redundancy in 2015 but i never do it - i just continue regardless of my health being in decline! 
Not a happy start to Monday for me 

Hope you all had a nice weekend x


----------



## K jade

no don't worry carrie
nothing in that would cause problems
the only reason it says things like 'avoid if pregnant' on those boxes is cause they cant do clinical trials on pregnant women
good shout on staying off work. take the whole week off. bed. rubbish Tv . hot drinks.  oooo I'm a bit jealous. 

northern go follies!

betty big hugs hun. why? I don't know. life is just very unfair at times. I also get jealous of people having babies EVEN if they are IVF babies! 

xx


----------



## Carrie88

Thanks ladies - my anxiety had a freak out. I'm calmer now  

Went the gp this morning for my blood draw and had a bit of an episode because I was so dehydrated she couldn't even use my left arm and had to use my right arm - one vial for the lit and two for the std screening. 
I almost fainted and just went white and sweaty so then had to sit there for ages and ages till I recovered. 

I've watched my Harry Potter dvds today as day time tv is crap - will defo have to be out and about on maternity leave haha!! 
I've napped on and off today as well - need to make sure I'm better for next week. 

Back to the gp later so they can witness us signing this form and I'm going to get them to check my tonsils out as well xx


----------



## Northern

Oh Carrie you poor thing! Glad you’ve been off today, rest yourself up and chill out on the sofa, good call with the Harry Potter haha, hope you get sorted with the forms etc xxx


----------



## Efi78

Hi ladies
I hope you don't mind me jumping in.
As you can see from my profile I have also had my fair share of pain.
Just finished an FET cycle got a BFP and feeling low. I have never had immune testing done (NK cells etc). What is your opinion on those? From a little research I have done there is not mich evodence out there however it sems they have worked for some ladies. I have already been through a lot and spent a fortune. Is it worth proceeding with immune testing?


----------



## K jade

Oh no Carrie, careful not to get dehydrated. Lots of water is good for your lining. Try fizzy if u don't like flat. With ice and lemon! I'm addicted to it. 

Efi78 welcome sorry u find yourself here on this thread. 
Me personally, I'm a believer in immune issues causing recurrent unexplained failure.
But only when all other issues can be ruled out. With me I knew I didn't have tubal issues, I always had nice linings, I was a great responder, got good quality blasts, relatively young,  and absolutely no sperm issues as we are using donor sperm and had changed donor as well. so everything was pointing towards an immune response.
I don't think immune testing is the answer for everyone , and as u say it can be costly.
But you could do a few tests such as the quenby Nk cell biopsy ( £540) or the locus medics 3 panel package  (£300). This might give you a rough idea and an initial steer as to whether your immune system is out of whack 
Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Just got back from the dr/pharmacy. 

It's tonsilitous. 8 tablets a day of antibiotics for a week. Fml. 

Efi: I'm also a believer of immunes even though I've not had success yet. Kjade has some great starting advice Hun xx


----------



## K jade

Oh Jeez Carrie of all the luck!  

Can you still  continue with transfer? X


----------



## Carrie88

I hope so!! 
He's given me pregnancy friendly antibiotics and said I should be better by the end of the week.

I don't have a temperature. I'm actually under temperature at 35.6 which is also a symptom of tonsilitous xx


----------



## K jade

Ok that's good. 
In a way it may be a good things, as you'll have to stay off work now so it'll be a good opportunity to rest up before next week xx


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all

Carrie- Nooooo! Rest up, sleep as much as possible, dose up, eat wholesome food and get well soon!. Those tonsil stones sound vile, I've never heard of them! Really hope you make a speedy recovery. You've got enough time to recover.

Northern- exciting! All those follicles sound good. Hope your scan shows you're on track tomorrow. When do you think EC will be?. 

KJade hope you're doing ok, anymore results in?.

Hi Efi sorry you find yourself here. KJade has given some good advice. When I got tested I had immune issues- previously we never had great quality embryos so that's what people said the issue was. It turns out I have high NK blood cells which would impact on an embryo implanting. I'm now taking steroids for longer and having intralipids. A really good book which shows there is a scientific evidence base for immune issues is 'Is Your Body Baby Friendly' by Dr Beer. I picked up my copy on eBay pretty cheaply.

Bettyville that all sounds too much! We had a day once where we had lunch with a pregnant friend, got home then our nephew phoned to say him and his girlfriend were pregnant- very early 20's, together for 5 minutes, then mother in law phoned to say our niece was pregnant again. Literally felt like life was punching me from every direction! So sick of being happy for everyone else!.

Nat hope you're doing ok. 

Hi anyone else.

I'm typing this from the bus on the way to Gatwick. Transfer tomorrow. Our donor gave us 12 eggs on Friday. I was obsessing about what was happening to them so asked for an update yesterday. Got told there are 6 perfectly growing embryos and they expect to have a few blastocysts.. I don't know if they checked them on day 1 or 3. I'm hoping it's day 3 they checked them otherwise that's a bigger drop off from day one when we've used OE/OS. DH very helpfully reminded me yesterday that this is the last time unless we do any FETs if we have any for the freezer. Feeling anxious. Terrified I'll get there tomorrow and they'll be saying 'no, nothing left!'. I'm going out on my own. Fortunately there's a Serum meet up group on ** so I'm meeting up with a few ladies for lunch tomorrow. 

Xx


----------



## Carrie88

MrsC - sending you all the luck in the world!! Safe travels!! Sounds like you're gojng to have a few Frosties in that batch. Crossing everything for you lovely xxx


----------



## K jade

MrsC I didn't realise you were doing a DE cycle. how exciting!!
best of luck for you hun 

I've tried to get into the GP today to ask for a TB test and the line  was just busy for 20 minutes. then when I eventually got through all the appointments were gone!
I'm on triage but I doubt the Dr will prioritise ringing me back as shell just think I'm neurotic thinking I have some disease people in Britain haven't had since the 1800s ,  plus I had the vaccine when I was 14 
so its looking more and more like £170 it is!


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Mrs C........thanks hun yeah not doing too bad thanks - we have our nephew being born today - mixed emotions - cannot wait to meet him but cant help that pang of hurt in the gut......boy it stings.......but at same time been blessed with another beautiful nephew in a few hours.......

Good luck with transfer tomorrow - all sounding fab.......

xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Bloody gp appointments are like gold dust nowadays aren't they? 
You never know....they gave me an app just for the gp to sign the form.
Just say you have a load of the tb symptoms - I dunno what they are but google will know lol.

NAT - I bet that's tough. Obviously happiness but sadness for you too. Your time will come lovely!! 

I'm on a train to London right now to see Gorgy. Trying not to throw up - but I feel rotten xx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Carrie - you poor thing hope you feel better soon and shift this........

xxx


----------



## K jade

Ow Nat that's soooo hard. make sure you look after yourself. we get so caught up in trying to be strong in this process and keep a brave face on. Don't feel you have to visit until your ready. What I also find helpful when visiting someone pregnant or with a new baby , is to put a time limit on it. So only stay for half and hour or so, take a card or some flowers,  then do something nice for yourself afterwards. 

Oh carrie you poor thing
strong painkillers and strong coffee does take the edge off nausea , may be worth a try...

whey hey  I'm now £172 lighter as my Gp couldn't do the TB test! what a surprise. 
seriously what is the point in having a Gp sometimes. In wales it has got really bad as they are so anti private providers that they cannot work with them, to the point of not doing any tests that are for private treatment. or so they have told me  
I didn't even bother lying as my excuse about working with people  with TB has holes in it, as I've had the vaccine. 

luckily private practice are  fitting me in in this afternoon at 4.00pm so early next week I should know for definite about my TB status and whether I can have Humira.


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey KJade.......

thank you hun......that is a good idea......we have already said that we are going to visit when they are back home and settled and not going to the maternity ward (which we did before).......like the idea of doing something afterwards for us actually - going to do that.......thanks for that hun xxx

Ouch.......seems like there is always something else that you have to pay for in this process......how annoying......to be honest my GP Clinic is the same really they dont like to help with anything they dont have to as such......although I have been pretty lucky with them with alot of the basic bloods, ecg tests etc. etc. they have arranged - but anything that isnt deemed as "appropriate" then they cant.......so frustrating but glad you got in quickly privately - and at least you will get results quickly etc. - trouble is on the NHS alot of the time you have to wait ages for results anyway.......good luck with it

xxx


----------



## K jade

Oh god hun no defiantly don't go into the maternity ward
I could not do that in a million years. I have worked  with quite a few pregnant women over the years and if they have a baby and I need to pick them up I take a colleague with me to run in and grab them while I stay firmly parked outside! LOL 
I often wander how I will actually cope if I ever do get pregnant. will I be able to sit in the ante natal clinic then or will I still be raging with jealousy!?
probably the latter  
Yeh take yourself and DH off to the cinema or for a nice meal out, or even just a walk and a coffee 
xx


----------



## Carrie88

Oh kjade that's annoying but least you tried and that's great the private clinic could see you so fast. I know we pay for it in ridiculous amounts of money but private care is so fast. 
I've heard the Welsh NHS is really quite tough and making crazy cutbacks. 
Fingers crossed for this result!! Xx


----------



## Northern

Lots of luck to you Mrs C, hope your flight out was ok and everything goes well tomorrow, sure your embies will be doing just fine those are good numbers! Let us know, will be thinking of you! Xx

Nat hope all has gone well with the nephew's birth, love the idea of a timed visit and then doing something nice for you - ha and yes steer clear of maternity wards! Haha kjade this cracked me up


> if I ever do get pregnant. will I be able to sit in the ante natal clinic then or will I still be raging with jealousy!?


 

Glad you're sorted with the tb test but ouch that's expensive!

I have day 11 scan tomorrow (2 hours away in Leeds so got the day off and making a little shopping trip of it, hooray!) Will let you know how it goes xx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Good luck tomorrow Northern - great idea to add in a bit of shopping

Xxx


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all

KJade- yes its DE, we've tried every other combo 4xOE/OS, 1xOE/DS and now DE/OS. What a process of elimination! Glad you got your jab done, hope it comes back with the result you need for Humira. Laughing at your ante natal clinic comment. I often wonder if once this works do you then feel differently?? I'm sure I'll still cuss at anyone who says they're trying for a baby then get pregnant that day!. 

Nat- I can't believe you went to a maternity ward, you're a stronger person than me. I'd probably have collapsed sobbing on the floor. My last trick when gong to see a friends new baby was to take the dog but leave him in the car and then say ' I can't stay long, the dogs in the car!'. It was quite a warm day too so I only did 10 minutes!! Really like the idea of doing something nice for the 2 of you afterwards. Hope it goes ok.

Northern is that your closest scanning place??. Have a good time shopping and hope all is as it should be with the scan.

Carrie how did London go? Hope you're feeling a bit better.

I had to go to Serum for bloods this morning, the receptionists geeeted me like a lot lost friend 😂 This is my 4th time here and recently I've had pretty much daily contact with them sorting out prescriptions and things. It feels so surreal being in Athens on my own. I met another lady for lunch at Gatwick yesterday from the social media group and she was on my flight. I'm seeing more ladies later so all in all it's turning out to far more social than I am at home!. So nice to be around people who get it. This is also a covert mission, only DH, brother and my manager know I'm here apart from forum ladies. Praying no one calls me and gets The abroad tone!!. Transfer later.

Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade - hope your appointment went ok for your bloods? 

MrsC - glad you've landed safely and how lovely you got to meet up with some other ladies. That must be so nice  although still weird to be without DH. I like how now I've been to serum as well I know the area and what it looks like. Good luck today!! I'll be thinking of you and I'm excited for you!! Xx

NAT - hope you're feeling ok today xxx

Northern - good luck with your scan. Fingers crossed it goes ok  good idea tying a bit of retail therapy into your day. I think that always helps hehe xx



So I had my scan at Gorgys yesterday and my lining hasn't really grown. It's still about 7.3mm.
Quite disappointed as even though my lining has never really got much bigger than 7.8mm I thought cos it did so well last week it would of grown? 
He's done the neupogen wash to help it grow a bit and back down on Friday.

He's also not happy with my thyroid as it's come back at 2.21 which I thought was ok as guys like it under 2.5 but he likes it under 2 so have to increase my thyroxine to 50mg one day and then 25 the next. 
I dunno why he's just not bumped me up to 50mg full stop? 
Bit annoyed as well because i got these results last week but they didn't get put in my file so he didn't see them xx


----------



## Bettyville

Morning ladies,
Hope you're all doing well. Thanks for all your replies to my post - feeling ok & as you know, life goes on. I'm so ready to 'come out of the fertility closet' - have any of you? how did you do it?
We had our follow up with the consultant at the new clinic yday - had a stomach bug so we had to do it over Skype as neither of us were well enough to travel into London. He wants us to consider x2 more rounds but embryo banking with PGS testing - the whole process could take up to 6 months which i'm really not sure if i want to do. 6 more months of this just feels impossible! Have any of you considered turning your back on IVF? 

Betty x


----------



## K jade

Northern enjoy your day of retail  therapy . I love clothes shopping, find it really helps in this process. never been to Leeds but heard its really nice

MrsC sounds like your in for a nice time in Athens.  

Carrie lining sounds really good considering your transfer isn't till next week...? drink loads of water and try a hot water bottle too. I'm off to home bargins later to buy one myself as realised ive lost mine. Also pomegranate juice and raspberry leaf tea? the neup wash should def help too. 

Betty sorry your feeling unwell. I have 'come out' so to speak a few times. Never regretted telling people . I've find everyone I've confided in is very understanding and supportive. work have been brilliant and I never regret telling my manager last year when I started treatment. personally I always advocate openness as it takes the weight off your shoulders, plus you find when you tell people half the time they've been through it too themselves. 
as for walking away , I have told myself many times enough is enough. But something inside keeps me going, probably downright stubbornness and refusal to give up!  I have to admit i know very little about this embryo banking. it does seem to be gaining popularity a lot recently, and i know serum favour it.  I'm taking it that the benefits are minimal stims, which maximise egg quality?  im sure there are ladies on here who have tried it who may know more than me
what clinic are you with?

so the TB test is done. £172 for the privilege. it turned out however that the NHS don't offer the TB blood test at all here in wales. so even if I got past my GP all they would have done would have been a chest x ray. Results should be in by Friday and ill send them straight over to DrG
oh and I'm having a bit of an admin day in work, so I have brought in my 'infertility portfolio' to sort out. I have now used up all the polly pockets in my office by putting each and every test print out in them and arranging them in date order in a beautiful pink ringbinder!
who said infertility wasn't fun!?
x


----------



## Bettyville

Hey K Jade,
Ah i have a pink ring binder too, although mine is falling apart, think i need a new one - it's almost full, which is nothing to be smiling about!

We're thinking of going with CRGH, we visited them when we had our NHS referral but the wait time was over 1 year so we went with another NHS clinic. The embryo banking is not evidence based but as you say is gaining momentum - however, i read a really interesting article recently all about PGS testing and that Drs have been transferring embryos which may not have been the best quality / may have originally had some abnormality for years - often the embryo can repair itself so why the need for PGS? We're not sure what we'll do still, i don't know if my body or my mind can take any more! As for DH, his DNA fragmentation came back at 28% cut off is 25% so Dr has asked him to take Vit C / Wellman tablets to help his sperm along & so we started this morning. I have much more confidence in this place vs my previous but then that doesn't give any guarantees does it?

Betty x


----------



## Northern

Gaaaaargh that’s it I am sick of Ivf, sick of worrying, sick of waiting, sick of not knowing what’s going on inside me, sick of it all being completely out of my knowledge and control! Scan showed we are now up to at least 27 follicles, sizes ranging around 18mm on the right and 20mm on the left. I was expecting clinic to say trigger tomorrow night and then egg collection on Saturday morning, but instead they have said carry on with 150iu puregon and come for a scan at the clinic in Prague when we get out there on Friday. But by then it will be too late to trigger for Saturday ec, and the clinic is closed on sundays, so ec would then be Monday - surely that is too late I feel like I’ve been overstimulated again for my flipping over-eager ovaries and will be fit to burst if they make me wait til Monday, am I wrong for feeling worried/mistrusting/terrified? 

Just feel completely sick of the whole thing, got a bad feeling about the timings and I’m so worried, I was hoping I’d have a few fewer follicles this time but no. 

Mrs C thinking of you and hope transfer has gone well - absolutely everything crossed for you xxx


----------



## K jade

Betty has your DH tried proxeed? apparently that's the best for fragmentation. 
I have little faith in PGS. perhaps  beneficial for women who produce loads and loads of embies maybe? 
the thing is that at some stage all viable embryos end up being transferred anyway what with the freezing technology we have now, so I cannot really see the point of it. 
like you said evidence is coming out now that embies can correct faults anyway. 

oh Northern  
deep breaths. I think I would email the clinic right away and re -iterate your concerns..
say your worried that EC on Monday will mean your follies are over mature. 
perhaps they can lower the dose to 75? what would they suggest? 
get their reassurance


----------



## Northern

Aaaand breathe......I emailed the clinic with my concerns and my doctor will ring me tomorrow morning to discuss, and egg collection could still be Saturday. Feel a bit easier and glad to get chance to speak to him tomorrow and hopefully get some reassurance. 

Sorry for the rant! Thanks KJade Xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Northern - oh gosh id be worried too. I remember I felt similarly in cycle 2 as I was stimulating for 17 days in the end and thought I'd be way over cooked. I was fine but I don't think it helps when they make a decision like that and don't go into deal with you why and let your discuss your worries etc. Did you have bloods done? Oestrogen? 

Kjade - glad you managed to get the blood test done - sounds like it was your only option now and least you know the result will be with dr Gorgy quickly xx


----------



## Bettyville

Hi ladies,
Wow northern, hope you're ok. I'd be worried too - i am a general worrier though - hope you hear from the Drs soon!! 

KJade - our new consultant asked my DH to start taking proxeed. Can't recall if he said to take Proxeed OR Wellman or to take both but when we get our letter, i'm sure it will be clearer. For now, he's actually started to take Vitamen from Zita West, we compared that to Wellman and it has many more nutrients so we decided that it would be best to go for Vitamen. I also have my doubts on PGS but if we go ahead, this will be our last shot and i actually wanted to try and transfer on a natural cycle anyway. The drugs really mess with me so i guess there's no harm in trying.

Betty x


----------



## K jade

carrie I did yeh. results should be in by tomorrow. when I get them ill email them straight over to FGA. ...Really hope its a negative for TB as I really want to try Humira. 

Northern that's great. glad they put your mind at rest. did you get much shopping done after?

Betty definitely  no harm in PGS and I think your right, the drugs can really interfere with our uterine receptivity. if I get any frosties this cycle i'm going to ask for a non medicated FET.

ladies I've cut out cows milk (always have it in tea/coffee/cereal so was getting through quite a bit) . using soya /oat milk now. I feel soooo much better and haven't had a migraine for 2 whole days!  I read somewhere too that MTHFR ladies are often lactose intolerant  so im wandering if this has been my issue all along and perhaps why I have high tnfa ...


----------



## Bettyville

Unfortunately i've never had any frosties   - i don't know if it's because they never checked my DH's sperm or if it's my egg quality. That's why Dr wants to do PGS to assess whether we should move to egg donation but being Indian, it's not that easy to find donors in the UK, we'd definitely need to go abroad. However, i'm not even thinking about that stage at the moment!


----------



## Carrie88

Fingers crossed for your results kjade. 

Just be careful about soy milk - it contains oestrogen so can affect the oestrogen results in bloods. Oat milk is fine  
That's really good you've not had any migraines. I definetly think you may be on to something there with the link!! 
I've dramatically cut ours down as well - we were going through 6 pints of milk a week - we're now going through 1 pint of milk. 
I do still have milk in my tea but I only have 1 cup a day. 

I'm still having cheese and butter though, mmmm!! Xx


----------



## Angedelight

Well ladies I'm PUPO for the 6th time but first time with blasts! I had to look up the grading as it's new to me but a 4AA and 5AA. Now to pray the immune stuff is sorted and my body embraces them!!.

Carrie hope your lining does what it should- im sure I've read about things people do to help like raspberry leaf tea etc. It might be one of those fertility myths but I've just had a handful of Brazil nuts and will get a pineapple once I get home! Are you feeling better yet?. Same as you with the thyroid- I've been taking 100mg levothyroxine since it hadn't come down as expected, hope it's done the trick. You said yours came down quickly last time so fingers crossed.

KJade- love the infertility portfolio! I actually binned a load of our notes as I'd need a wheelbarrow for them all! I've got a lovely streamlined folder now. Amazing the difference you've had cutting out cows milk. It's so easy to do now as so many alternatives and if you go proper hardcore there's loads of dairy free treats out there. Here's hoping those tests come back as they should tomorrow.

Bettyville- I posted a while back what the Serum sperm improvement program was. My DH had a 3% drop in his DNA frag from 14-11 following that. He didn't eat any processed food, no caffeine and barely any alcohol. Huge overall improvement as well so definitely does help. Good luck.

Northern hope your call went ok and you have a plan.

Hi everyone else.

X


----------



## Bettyville

MrsC - well congratulations, that's excellent!!! Wishing you a very happy, healthy & sane TWW! 

I agree on the soya milk limit, i was a vegetarian for 25 years up until a few months ago, ate quite alot of quorn but then i started to read into how it's made & that it has phystrogens (i'm sure that's not spelt correctly!) - didn't pay much attention to it but now, i've completed limited my intake. I have also started eating fish / chicken - mainly because the Drs kept telling me to. i'm not enjoying it but i'm trying it out for my health. The rice / oat milk is supposed to be ok - i've tried rice milk but only in coffee so don't know the actual taste. - Hope this doesn't offend anyone!

Betty x


----------



## Northern

Mrs-C that's great news, congratulations! They sound fab, have absolutely everything crossed for you and here's to a happy and sane tww! 

Betty wow that's dedication, giving up being veggie for infertility! Huge respect to you, hope it makes a difference and helps.  I'm amazed that doctors would even suggest that to you though?! Surely that's not very ethical of them, or am I just old fashioned?! 

Carrie I'm reassured you've had a late ec too and it was fine, I'd just never heard of it being that late before and worried about over-stimming. 
Just off the phone with the doctor who isn't really concerned at all and prob thinks I'm fretting over nothing.  It just bothers me with the clinic being closed Sunday that it may interfere with optimum timing.  He said it was always the plan though to keep me on a lower dose but for longer, to try and combat the immature eggs thing that we usually encounter.  They're going to scan me when we get to Prague tomorrow and do an estradiol blood test just to check OHSS risk.  Guess I just need to put my trust in the doctor and stop worrying but it's easier said than done!  Also means we'll have to have 3 day transfer instead of 5 day, as with ec most likely not being til Monday we'll be flying home too early for 5 day.  But I was on the fence about that anyway so in some ways would just like to transfer whatever we have and come home, so that's that decision made I guess. 

Off to Glasgow airport tonight then we fly 9am tomorrow morning, Prague here we come! 

Thanks again ladies, I'd have gone insane by now without you!
Xxx


----------



## Bettyville

Northern, sorry - it was my GP - my blood results show that i'm really lacking in certain vitamins and they've asked me for many years to think about eating meat but i've always declined it. However, i just got so fed up and coupled with allergies to nuts it makes it v difficult for me when eating out. So, i thought i'd give it a go. I'm not really seeing any benefits, in fact i hate the smell of chicken but i have changed my diet alot. When i was a veggie, i had quite a high carb diet but now, i'm trying to restrict it to carbs only once a day. It's been ok - so in one way, it has really helped me.
Fertility drs have only ever asked me if about my diet / if i'm veggie and warned me that i may struggle with iron IF i ever have children but that's a different story and one that we haven't had to worry about.


----------



## K jade

oh really, I didn't know that about soy milk 
Dammm! 
I much prefer  soy to oat milk as  it makes nicer tea and coffee.
maybe if I use the soy for tea coffee then oat milk for cereal. do you think that's OK?
Any others? what's rice milk like? 

carrie I think butter and cheese is Ok in small doses as milk is the biggie for lactose. I love butter and cheese too!

massive congrats MrsC! Heres to a happy 2 weeks. no scrap that a happy 9 months! think BIG!


----------



## Carrie88

MrsC - those grades are amazing!! Congratulations!! Ohh this is your time, I am sure of it. You've done all you can, there's nothing else you can do so fingers crossed for a sane 2ww. 

Yeah I've done all that before, Pom juice and Brazil nuts and it's never made a difference to me. Not gonna bother this time ha! Hoping that neupogen wash will help. Still feeling not 100% but a lot better. Throat still hurts and I'm starting to lose my voice - another chill day for me. 

Northern - yes it was late and I remember feeling so bummed out as I felt the cycle was ruined. It's hard when we have so much riding on this but we need to try and trust the doctors that they know what they're doing. My clinic do that - put me on a low dose and build me up slowly and it does work well for me so fingers crossed it will for you as well xx


----------



## Carrie88

K jade said:


> oh really, I didn't know that about soy milk
> Dammm!
> I much prefer soy to oat milk as it makes nicer tea and coffee.
> maybe if I use the soy for tea coffee then oat milk for cereal. do you think that's OK?
> Any others? what's rice milk like?
> 
> carrie I think butter and cheese is Ok in small doses as milk is the biggie for lactose. I love butter and cheese too!
> 
> massive congrats MrsC! Heres to a happy 2 weeks. no scrap that a happy 9 months! think BIG!


Yes that should be ok chick or try coconut milk - that's also nice  xx


----------



## Bettyville

KJade - i think people just don't know about it as we don't really think about it until there's a reason to. However, that's why we're all here, to help offer our support! Honestly, i used to hate it when people told me that too much soya was bad for you, drove me insane but one day, i read an article which promoted me to read more and there it was. I'm quite keen to try oat milk myself actually!

I also agree, MrsC - think BIG!! Hope you have lots of nice things planned x


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## Angedelight

Thanks ladies!
Coconut milk and almond milk are really nice in coffee and in porridge. You can get lacto free milk which is apparently very nice.
X


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

KJade.......I am using Almond Milk - soy milk is a bit of a no no..........in my opinion I would just avoid it rather than use it for only certain things - its one of those thing that when going through IVF etc. I wouldnt want to have anything that could effect hormone levels possibly etc. which soy is known to do.........well done you though........ xxx

Rice milk I dont like to be honest.......but personal choice dont think necessarily a reason not to have it.......

Coconut milk is also meant to nice - not the thick stuff in tins, the milk carton type

xxx


----------



## K jade

oh jeez really !  righty, that's off my list then. ill go back to Oat milk or try almond again. 

ladies anyone see Lorraine Kelly this morning?
she did a segment on IVF and a woman phoned in wanting to ask the so called expert who was on , why her latest cycle had yielded mainly immature eggs. 
well the expert told her that she  probably  had  low ovarian reserve and that was why they were all immature.  
that's rubbish isn't it? immature eggs would surely be down to triggering at the wrong time or being on wrong protocol? It made me realise how lucky we are to have this amazing site which is a wealth of knowledge and information. this poor woman clearly hadn't discovered FF and that's why she was phoning  Lorraine Kelly.


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## Carrie88

I didn't but I heard about it. 

What really? That is so wrong. 
God we should be ivf experts.....between us all we could open up our own clinic for advice!! Xx


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## K jade

carrie tell me about it
this journey is as much about doing your own research and being your own advocate, as anything else. 
well in ASDA last night I discovered Hazelnut milk so thought id give that a try. haven't opened it yet but apparently its 'smooth and creamy' so sounds promising. 
day 3 and still no migraine, so maybe I'm onto a winner with this milk thing

Northern have a safe flight  
xx


***TB test negative!!
thank the good lord! ******


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Great news on TB test result hun.........

Not heard of hazelnut milk before........although I am pretty new to all this diary replacement stuff myself.........hope its nice.........all I have ever done is each time I go to buy something and not sure whether it is o.k during IVF I google it and do a little check about first.........I think to be honest most of them apart from Soya would be absolutely fine........

amazing what dairy, gluten etc. can do to some people.........

xx


----------



## Carrie88

On my way back from dr Gorgys and it's not great news.

Lining hasn't grown in 2 weeks and is still around 7.2-7.4. It's  also not triple lined  
It's always been triple lined before so not sure what's gone wrong.

He's said it's not ideal but there's nothing else he can add so transfer next Wednesday.

We've also had to pay £350 as our gp has missed out a couple of blood tests.

So upset. Almost told him to cancel it.


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

I know you said you have tried before hun but is it worth drinking a glass of organic pomegranate juice a day and hot water bottle on tummy etc - worked for me - think rather than feel defeated think positively that you still have four full days before transfer to try and get it thicker - try raspberry leaf tea too - I think I would just do ever possibly can naturally between now and then. Lots of warm foods and keep your feet warm all the time too. 

Keep positive still time to get it thicker xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Yeah I've done the Pom juice on 4 transfers and my lining has always been the same.
I may try the hot water bottle and raspberry leaf tea though.

I'm so deflated.

He's taken progesterone and I'm sure that's to do with the Triple lining xx


----------



## K jade

Carrie whilst it's not the news u were hoping for 7 or above  Is perfectly acceptable for a lining and your in with every chance for a positive outcome 
I always remember a lady posting on my clinic thread how deflated she was as her lining was only at the 7 mark which was the lowest it had ever been. That transfer she had a positive outcome, got her baby and no longer comes on FF. And that was after several failed cycles. 
I know everyone loves to pull the anecdote out the bag of so and so who's lining was x amount  and then got triplets etc  when you've had a peice of news which throws you or dissapoints.  However  I do honestly believe that as long as your lining is above 7 I'm not really sure if Sucess rates are vastly different than if it was 10.
Defo agree with Nat 
Try hot water bottle too. 
Oh and LOADS of water 
You can do this! Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Thanks girls - I've done a post on the FET part and a woman has told me not to proceed and it's doomed. Dunno what to do now :/ xx


----------



## K jade

Carrie I've sent u a pm about the responses you've had on your FET post x


----------



## Baking Queen

Carrie - triple-lined is optimum but it’s not essential - FETs can and do work without a triple lining. Raspberry leaf tea always seemed to help me so I would give it a go. If Dr G thinks it’s ok to go ahead, then I would. After all, I’m sure he’s got far more experience than us all, so I would trust him over people who have very little experience or knowledge.
Take care.
BQ. xx


----------



## Carrie88

Thanks ladies!! 

Currently got a glass of Pom juice in one hand, a mug of organic raspberry leaf tea on the table and a hot water bottle on my stomach. 

Starting progesterone tonight - doesn't the lining stop growing once you start that medication? Xx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Keep up the good work Carrie......

It’s all worth a shot. Four days and hopefully have a bit more lining......no harm can only do good.....remember cozy socks don’t walk around bare feet......warm feet warm uterus and all that. 

Agree with KJade that Clinic has always said above 7mm......if that little embie is meant to implant it will. 

Couldn’t say it better than Baking Queen hun. 

You think positive. A lot to be positive about. Your in good hands and looking forward to hearing your good news on Wednesday. 

Xx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Ps. Are you on cyclogest/oestrogen tablets??

Xx


----------



## Northern

Just catching up and not read your other post Carrie but my doctor said today they like lining to be over 7 so I'm sure you will be fine, try not to worry. Hot water bottle might nudge it along a bit xx

All ok here, ec on Monday - later than I thought but doctor was v thorough today and has put me at ease a bit. Early night now and a potter round Prague over the weekend   xx


----------



## Carrie88

Yeah so has guys....above 7mm.
Think dr Gorgy is just a bit stricter on things? 
Yup on 10mg oestrogen plus 2 patches.
I did ask dr Gorgy about all the Pom juice etc and he just smiled and said if you want too....

Oh northern I'm glad you're feeling better.
I think that's the worst thing when your mind isn't put at rest. It's awful!! Fingers crossed for lots of nice mature eggies. enjoy Prague!! Xx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

As far as I am aware I think oestrogen would help build the lining and progesterone helps hold the lining where it is and stops it shedding. 

Do whatever your comfortable with hun. Worth throwing everything at it in hope it may push it up a little 

Good luck xxx


----------



## K jade

Carrie agree with all the other ladies 
And If u haven't had raspberry leaf tea before defo give that a good glug 
Yep like Nat said nice thick socks too

Northern glad uve arrived safely. Hope u have a nice day planned  in Prague 

Had 2 cups of decaf tea last night over my friends. She only had normal milk. What do u know my migrane is back this morning!


----------



## Aley

Oh gosh! Just finished writing a very long post and had an error while trying to post it. Argh! 

Anyhow! Hi girls! How are things?

I know I am rubbish at posting but I am reading the thread and trying to keep up with all your updates.

Carrie, darling, I hope you feel better. I can only say what others before me said, if your dr is happy and wants to go ahead with the transfer then he's the one you should listen to. I completely understand that it can be upsetting to hear/read comments that are probably slightly inappropiate and more so when they're coming from people you probably would expect to understand and be more mindful with their words. Eh, it's been a while since I stopped expecting people to actually think before they say something.

KJade, glad your tb came back negative. New cycle soon?

Northen, good luck with your cycle. Fingers crossed and wishing you all the best.

MrC, you're in tww, right? How are things? Hope you'll give us good news soon.

Hi Nat, Betty and hope I didn't mix up people or forgot many. I do blame the ivf for the recent goldfish memory.

I am planning a fet in January and would really love some cycle buddies...
I said I'll keep myself away from the "regular cycle buddies" thread as the last time I found it hard to fit in with most of people trying ivf for first time or trying for 2nd, 3rd child and so on, especially with many of them having success while I am childless and still looking at one line pregnancy test.  

Warm hugs to all of you, you're all truly amazing women!


----------



## Angedelight

Hi ladies

Carrie hope you're feeling more positive. I did send you a PM. Sounds like you're doing everything you possibly can.

KJade- good news on test result! Makes that extra expense feel worthwhile to get a conclusive result back. Think you've definitely hit something on the head with the dairy if just a tiny amount induced a headache. I like any nut milks in coffee & porridge. Another lush one that they sell in Sainsbury's is Vita Coco coconut milk. It's the same people that do the lovely coconut water.

Northern hope you've had a lovely few days in Prague- quite good it worked out like that even though it was stressful- at least you had DH have had a few days to explore before it all kicks off. Good luck for EC tomorrow.

Aley- totally get what you mean about goldfish memory. I think my head gets so full of all this there's no room for anything else!. I'm with you on the cycle buddies and 2ww boards, I've stayed away from there, my signature will probably scare them 😂 A lot of people seem to be only 1 or 2 in. Think you have a completely different mindset and outlook when you're only a couple in.

Hi Nat, Bettyville, Baking queen and anyone else.

So today is 4dp 5dt. Nothing to report really, had some cramps yesterday. Been very tired but last week was so hectic I'm not surprised. Plus we are in Cornwall this weekend so lots of sea air. Clinic gave me OTD of next Sunday. I only ever test a day early. Persuaded DH to test next Saturday but then remembered we have plans for lunch for his brothers birthday so wil have to wait till Sunday. I'm been looking at that timeline about what happens each day after transfer. Doing the usual pineapple and Brazil nuts things and fleece socks all the time!.

Back to work tomorrow, will make the time pass quicker. Oh and we found out that on day 6 one of the morulas became a 4aa so that's been frozen ❄. Glad there's a back up.

X


----------



## bippy11

Hi everyone, can I join you? I think I qualify as a pincushion princess, I certainly feel like one!  I also don't really want to join 2WW or FET thread this time round, and I recognise some of you on here from previous threads, which is nice   

Mrs C, I am also in 2ww - had transfer last Monday and OTD is Saturday. Im struggling quite a bit, time has slowed right down   feel tired and hormonal and keep having to remind myself that that is because we are pumping copious amounts of hormones in to me, not necessarily because Im pregnant! I am also used to doing a lot of exercise and so it makes me feel different (and uncomfortable) to not be able to have that feel-good release during 2WW. We're going to go for a walk today, so will get some fresh air, although we're in London so the air won't be as fresh as Cornwall, which sounds lovely! 

I actually wrote a message for this thread recently with personals for everyone to say hello and then just before I was about to send, I somehow deleted it!   But thought I would try again now and then catch up with you all as I go. 

You all inspire me and particularly now, when I feel really really scared that if this doesn't work I won't be able to cope or carry on, it gives me strength to see the support and kindness that you all give here


----------



## K jade

Aley I will most probably be starting January. New year is a good time for a cycle, X mas is over, so your not dealing with lots of clinic staff on annual leave. Did u end up doing any tests in the end? I know u were thinking about hiddenC

Bippy welcome . Good luck! What clinic are u with?

I know what u ladies mean, I really struggle with people on other threads whove  been on getting bfps on first or second go. ive been  on FF a while and many lladies have got bfps ,  dissapeared, then rejoined for a second child got lucky again , all the time I even trying for those 2 blue lines.
It's one thing to need IVF, it's another thing entirely to go through multiple failed cycles. 

MrsC how lovely to be on holiday. Great news on the Frostie! I'm off shopping in a minute. I'll have a look for that coconut milk u mentioned. 
Hazelnut milk is a bit weird  

I STILL haven't got my NK blood assay. Hoping it's not gonna be much longer. 

This'll make u all laugh. I looked back at my old posts on FF from the non obstructive azoo thread. I was talking about how sad it was that my DH had such an awful fertility condition and what a difficult position that put me in as I was A ok.
I put ' God I wish it was me with the issues, it would make it sooooo much easier' 
Ha!!!!!!!!
Ladies be very careful what u wish for u just might get it    . It honestly brightened my day


----------



## Northern

Hahaha KJade I know just what you mean! I remember when I first joined feeling a bit of a fraud because the ‘only issue’ we were dealing with was a failed vas reversal, not any known fertility issues - I honestly thought we were a fairly straightforward case and would only need a few cycles at most. Then seeing the enormous folder the doctor has on me at the clinic the other day made me realise just how far we have come!! Oh the naivety haha    

Aley I’m the same that’s exactly why I also keep off the cycle threads now too really - there are so many lovely new ladies full of hope - with every chance of success - I don’t want to bring it down with bitterness lol.

Mrs C that’s great news you’ve got a frostie in the bank, always a better position to be in to have some kind of backup plan although I hope you don’t need it! Keep strong and enjoy being pupo- easier said than done I know   Cornwall is great though and sure the break will be doing you good xx

Bippy welcome - it’s great having the support here of others going through the same thing, just wish I could wave a magic wand and none of us would have to be here! Good luck with the rest of your tww, everything crossed for you xx 

We’ve had a nice few days wandering round Prague - can’t believe this is my 5th trip here but it’s still a beautiful city and there are worse places we could be spending time for treatment....just hope we don’t have to come back! Am feeling much slower now and def ready for ec tomorrow but not really looking forward to the inevitable pain afterwards, but here’s hoping we get some good mature eggs this time and some lovely strong embies for transfer....   

Hope you’re all enjoying the weekend xxx


----------



## Efi78

Aley said:


> Trying to catch up with everyone.
> 
> K jade, I understand the frustration of seeing other people move on with their life, having one or two kids while I still wait to even see a second line. Women around me seem to have no problem getting pregnant and I actually work with 3-4 expecting mothers that are having their 2nd or 4th! It's hard to say at least. I think I can face the physical part of ivf anytime but emotionally is just horrible.
> I still have hope though!
> I will have my tests in my first clinic that's in Ireland but looking into options abroad as well.
> 
> Rosie, I am the same as you, not really knowing what to do. The last consultant we've seen suggested pgs but I want to explore the soil a bit more before moving on to the seed.
> 
> Little dreamer, I had a scratch on my last cycle. I felt uncomfortable but then I am one of those that don't like smears at all. The good thing is that is over quickly and it can help with implantation.
> 
> Northen, we too are considering 1. To change the donor sperm, that is not a big deal and we shpuld have done it sooner! and 2. To take my wife's eggs or womb... if the eggs are an idea we had in the beginning to switch to her as the carrying mother is a hard decision as I really want experience pregnancy and birth while she doesn't at all and on top of that she has a medical condition that can get worse after birth. Even thinking about that shows how desperate and scared we are. I think it's probably the same for you using donor sperm.
> The ERA is indeed expensive but we already spend a car worth money and that price looks like nothing compared to it.
> Dr. Sher blog always pops up on my social media page! Just like all the other millions of fertility clinic pages, mothers blogs, surrogacy and egg donation offers  read and heard few of his ideas.
> 
> Hope you all have a good weekend
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hi Aley

May I ask you something? I understand that you have only used your eggs so far. It may sound like a silly question, but is it possible in same sex couples both women to be stimulated and use eggs from both? Maybe you increase chances this way? Maybe who knows her eggs are better quality? Or they could transfer an embryo in each one of you and see which one gets pregnant. Just a though. It might sound silly but that's the way I would do it If I were in same sex relationship


----------



## Bettyville

Hi ladies
Hope you're all having a nice weekend.
Northern - good luck for tomorrow, I hope that everything goes ok & that it's not too painful. Here's to lots of nice mature follicles!
Sending love x


----------



## bippy11

Thanks K jade, Im with a small clinic called 'fertility plus' - our doc runs the NHS unit we started out with and we really like and trust him. We did investigate other clinics when we went private, but didn't feel that we could trust them in the same way and some of them just seemed too big and not willing to personalise treatment to our circumstances. 

Its strange looking back on this 'journey' isn't it. I was remembering the other day how I cried my eyes out when our first go at ovulation induction didn't work - I had been convinced that now we were having treatment, it would work first time.. oh how naive I was!  

Thank you Northern. Wishing you all the best for EC tomorrow. I know what you mean about not looking forward to the pain afterwards, Ive also had a lot of follicles (30+) with my collections and so quite bad pain afterwards, but still I imagine you will be so ready by now that it will hopefully still be a relief. Hope you've got a nice room where you can rest up and recover afterwards. 

Im so impressed with people who manage to organise to do all this abroad on top of all this! I don't know how you manage the additional stress of booking flights and rooms etc. But it does sound quite nice to get away from everything and have the distraction of being somewhere else. 

We had a nice afternoon with a walk and then cinema - blade runner - excellent way to take our minds off things for a few hours. Now for a curry take-away


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade - I defo think you're onto something there with the dairy. Hahaha ohymgod I was the same. I even think on my diary here I'm moaning about how I hate the nf gene as we can't have kids and I was annoyed my husbands parents didn't go through this and that's why DH has the condition - yeah I think the nf gene is the least of our problems at the moment hahaha xx

Aley - thanks for your kind words, I am feeling better  good luck for January!! Enjoy that xmas of yummy food and alcohol. If this next one fails we'll probably go ahead and do the next one in January xx 

MrsC - oooh I missed your PM. I will look and reply after this. Can't believe you're 4dp already, almost half way and sounds like you're keeping very busy. Keep positive Hun as it's all sounding good xx

Northern - glad you're enjoying the sights of Prague. Sending you so much luck for tomorrow!! I'll be thinking eggcellent thoughts for you. Lots of love xx

Bippy11 - hiiii and welcome  that sounds like a perfect Sunday, especially if you're in the 2ww. Sounds like you've thrown a lot on it going via your sig, crossing everything it pays off for you xx


----------



## Aley

Efi, would make sense what you’re saying but and there are many buts! 
My wife is suffering with a chronic condition and she’s taking powerful drugs and a pregnancy is to be avoided by all means as the drugs can affect the fetus. She can stop her drugs but I wouldn’t be very happy with that because she can get more sick. She’s also older than me although probably that wouldn’t count that much. I also really want to experience pregnancy.
I was really our best shot at having a baby and I failed miserably. 
We live in Ireland and the law is a bit weird and apparently I can’t have her eggs but we can consider going abroad for that but is costly and we can’t afford it at the moment. But, I don’t think my eggs are the problem. 
I can go on like this but yeah, major points there. 

Carrie, think positive! I know is hard but try and look forward and think is going to work. I hope when the rest of us will talk about the drugs in January you’ll be saying about your scans&stuff. 

Kjade, isn’t it funny how life sometimes is such a b*tch. I remember thinking I might have so many left ocer embryos I wouldn’t know what to do with them and look at me now!

Northen, praying for lots of good eggs!

Mrsc, great news about the frostie! All mine were morulas too on day 5 but really it doesn’t matter how long they take to grow as long as they get there and 4aa is a great quality 

Bippy, hope the tww goes well. It sounds weird to say welcome to the group as, well, I don’t think anyone really wants to be here but we hope we can help.


----------



## K jade

Northern     my NHS consultant always jokes about how big my file is
and I always know when its my turn to be called in from the waiting room as everyone else's is a couple of sheets thick. As soon as the Doc lifts mine out the box  which  is the size of war and peace I start picking up my bag and jacket and  moving towards her door!

Bippy that's sounds like a lovely weekend. we took the dog for a drive last night to try and get away from the fireworks in my neighbours garden. we ended up driving right through every firework party in south wales so that didn't work too well ha!

aley oh I know. I thought id get 2 babies at least out of my last 2 embies. the embryologist was so positive about them! really makes me mad when I think about that. now I know it was my [email protected] body which let me down

xx


----------



## eyes

Hi All
I hope you don't mind me joining in. We have just had our 4th failed ICSI cycle. Not sure where to go from here as we are not yet ready for donor sperm or eggs. Thinking of a last cycle with ARGC but not sure if that will be any better? Not sure if they can improve the egg quality issues? Or sperm quality issues? In our case both are not good.


----------



## Northern

Just back at apartment, got 20 eggs!! They’ve done a blood test to check hormone levels for ohss so will just have to drink lots and lots of protein the next few days and hope for the best. Bit worried about it but then have always had big numbers and have managed before so hopefully ok. Glad to be done and have rest of day to chill. 

Eyes sorry about your failed cycle, it’s tough. Can you tell us a bit more of your history? The ladies here are very knowledgable and I’m sure will have some suggestions xx


----------



## K jade

yes Northern! im Jealous lol! that's such a great number. 20 potentials there for you!

Eyes so sorry for your failed cycle
Serum in Athens is a great clinic for improving embryo quality. Penny is very good at stimming at the right doses to get the best eggs, and has a sperm improvement protocol  for men. cost for a 2 cycle package is 4000.
ARGC is great but will costs tens of thousands
xx


----------



## Carrie88

Girls my father in law has had a heart attack.
My husbands had to leave work and go to broad green in Liverpool.

Whyyyy this week? Whyyyyy!!


----------



## eyes

Congratulations Northern. 20 eggs is great!! Wish you all the best. 
K jade thanks for the advice. We have had 4 cycles. 1st at lister. 4 embryos on day 3 none survived till day 5. 2nd was nhs cycle in chelsea..transferred 3 emryos day 3 bfn. 3rd at chelsea again...same results but worse quality embryos..all grade 3(worst grade4). Last and our best cycle so far was at serum where quality was better grade 2 but number of cells at day 3 was lower ie 4 to 5. Penny has been brilliant but we are mentally not ready for donors which makes it really difficult for both of us. She has suggested that as our main issues are my age and MFI...with high DNA fragnentation. We did do the sperm protocol but very little improvement was seen. Been to Mr Ramsay as well. He put DH on abx but not much effect. Looks like ours is a really hopeless case. No idea where to go from here....feels like its all a bad dream but for real!


----------



## K jade

eyes oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise you'd done serum already. 
have you tried following advice in 'starts with the egg'. using high dose ubiquonol l, or have you tried DHEA?  I'm probably going over old ground I know.
would you consider donors at all? I know you said you don't feel ready right now . 
I have to be honest when I first started this journey the thought of donor eggs and sperm was to me abhorrent. 
now... well the sperm and eggs could come from aliens for all I care. 
I know everyone's different but I do find for me the goalposts have moved drastically in my quest for pregnancy and a baby. 


oh No carrie! i'm so sorry. I hope he is OK? ((((((hugs)))))))) is he in hospital?


----------



## Northern

Omg Carrie! I hope he is ok, do you know anything yet? Thinking of you and dh and sending love xxx


----------



## eyes

Carrie i am so sorry to hear that. I hope everything gets better soon. 
Jade I have not read the book yet....ordered now. And i did use ubiquinol 100mg...is that high enough dose? Do you need to get the dhea prescribed or is it over the counter?


----------



## Aley

Oh no, Carrie! Mind yourselves, I hope your father in law will be ok soon.

Northen, 20 eggs is great! Fingers crossed for fertilisation now!

Eyes, I am no expert in quality issues, I guess a different protocol might give you more chances maybe...


----------



## Bettyville

hi ladies,
Carrie - sorry to hear about your father-in-law, hope he gets better soon!

Bippy - i noticed from your profile signature that you've had x2 cycles where you had PGS testing, its exactly what our new consultant is advising us to do. How have you found it? My DH has mild MFI - DNA fragmentation has shown a slightly elevated result so consultant is recommending ICSI, DH is currently taking Zita West vitamins / vitamin C. 

i'm currently still in limbo land, do i try IVF again or should we call it quits. How do you decide which way forward?! I'm really struggling on the next steps.


----------



## K jade

Eyes u can buy dhea on Amazon. But ask your consultants advice first with that one as they may want to check your levels first 
Ubiquinol I'm on 200mg per day but some ladies are on  as much as 800mg 
Lister recommends 400mg for ladies with DOR i think? 

Bettyville I think some people move on when they have had  enough and do find happiness and fulfillment in other things, as they're is certainly more to life than children. I'm not there yet 6 years in and with every obstacle imaginable thrown my way so I do wander if I ever will be, or whether I'll just die trying ha! 

Carrie hope things are OK xx


----------



## Northern

Eyes the other thing I would maybe think about is sperm selection techniques - there are some new methods coming in to try and pick the best sperm from a sample. We've done IMSI on our last cycle and this one (will find out if it's made any difference in a few days time...) and MACS is another one, there's also PICSI. I'm sure not every doctor would recommend them but for us it was worth a go. 

Betty I'm none the wiser on how to move on. I guess as with anything it's a matter of time and not putting pressure on yourself to reach a decision. Just make sure you've considered all the options and allow a path to show itself. Big hugs to you xx


----------



## eyes

Thanks so much for the advice K Jade and Northern. I am very grateful. It looks like we will go with ARGC as our last go. Will get the DHEA and ask them if they would like the levels checked. And will definitely increase the Ubiquinol dose as well. Northern, I will ask re sperm selection techniques as well. Do all clinics use these? It definitely makes sense if it helps to pick the best sperm. 
I agree Betty this is a very hard decision. When we started we had thought that we will limit to 3 cycles. And here we are talking about number 5! After each blow and each failed attempt it is equally hard, never gets easier.


----------



## bippy11

Im sorry in advance for the long post, Ive written it all now so will send!  

Thanks for the welcomes Carrie and Aley   

Carrie Im so sorry to hear about your father in law, that's awful! What's happening with your treatment this week? 

Aley it sounds like you have a lot on your plate with your wife's condition. You haven't failed miserably so please don't blame yourself. And hopefully you will still get lucky.

Northern that's a great result, congratulations! An excellent starting point for you to get some top embies over the next few days   Are you doing fresh transfer or do you need to let things settle first and do frozen later? Hope your're not in too much pain.  

Bettyville the reason we did PGS was because we have always had a lot of embryos. From our first cycle we had 7, none of which worked out. So for the next one we thought that we don't want to spend all that time and heartache transferring ones that would never work out anyway, so we decided to PGS test. From that we gone only 1 that passed from 5 blastocysts. That was a negative. So then we decided to do a double egg collection because we wanted to end up with more than one to transfer. From that we got 15 blastocysts and 7 passed the PGS test! 

Bettyville and Eyes, we did a lot of things for the 3 months leading up to our two last egg collections to try and improve egg and sperm quality - the result we got was better than previous rounds even though I am older. We kind of did everything, so it's hard to know what made the difference. Most of it we got from 'it starts with an egg': 
- cut out sugar and refined carbs and went on low GI diet (particularly important for women with PCOS even if not overweight). replaced pasta, rice, potatoes with grains of various sorts, add protein to every meal (ie seeds to cereal in the morning, humous to sandwich at lunch). I need a chocolate fix sometimes so found some nice 100% black chocolate from Montezuma - it's delicious  
- Took Zita West vitamins (for me Vitafem and Vitafem Boost and for DH Vitamen) - they cover most of what's recommended in the book. 
- Took Ubiquinol (Healthy Origins Kaneka QH 300 mg, ordered from iHerb) 
- Continued with exercise but cut down a bit on high impact sports such as running and tennis. 
- Took melatonin for about a week before egg collection (the book mentions it, but also check with your doc about when to start)
- Replaced all beauty products with natural products 
- Ate oily fish twice a week, but make sure salmon is wild 
- Switched to organic meat and dairy products. 
- No caffeine (apart from the dark choc!)
- No booze 

wow it seems like a lot now, but most of the things we have now incorporated in to our lives and they just feel normal.   Reading the book was definitely a good motivator. It is important to make sure you only do something that doesn't feel too hard and that you also have some of what you enjoy. And just because this worked for us, it may not work for everyone, I guess it also depends what your issue is. We kind of decided that even if it doesn't make a difference, we will have tried everything we can and we will just end up being a bit healthier. And the extra money spent on vitamins and slightly more expensive food and products is a drop in the ocean compared with what we have spent on treatment.. anyway, hope its helpful and doesn't seem too much - the last thing I would want to do it stress anyone out! 

Bettyville and Eyes, only you will know when the time to stop is, but it doesn't sound like you are ready yet. Maybe you need a break though to help you make the decision? We had a break from treatment over the summer which did us the world of good and gave me back some strength to keep going with this. (went to Italy and ate loads of pizza, pasta, carbs and wine   ) Although I realise that is very different as we knew we were carrying on and had embies to transfer. If none of the ones we have now work out, I don't know if I can do it all over again. But I also wouldn't know how to stop! I wish you all the best with your decision.  


On the topic of what to eat etc - what is the issue with dairy? I have seen you guys have been talking about it.. is it just a personal thing or is it fertility related? I thought milk and dairy was fine / good?..


----------



## pauli

Hi Eyes, we are in a similar situation, 4 cycles done, thinking what is next step, issues seem to be with egg and soerm quality. Just wanted to comment on ARGC, we did a cycle with them a year ago. They actually do not offer sperm selection techniques such as IMSI, neither embryoscope. Unless it has changed in the last year. Do ask them about it. We only found out after BFN at the follow up appointment.

What gave us better results was a clinic with high tech lab - IMSI, embryoscope with speciallly purified air to create best conditions for cultivation of the eggs. The embryologist would send us an update with an image how embryos were progressing on day 2,3,5 and 6. We managed to get blastocysts on both cycles, sadly all aneuploid through PGS. In my opinion the lab and embryologist are key where quality is an issue. 

Also check with Dr about DHEA, as opinions amongst doctors vary.  I was ready to take it too but our Dr was strongly against. He was happy with all other supplements and vitamins. 

Hi everybody, I was reading the thread for a while, so much knowledge! We have been on IVF journey only 2 years so still quite novices. Great to hear about BFPs, congratulations!!! 

Carrie, sorry to hear about your FIL, hope he will be ok. 
Xx


----------



## Bettyville

Thanks all and thanks Bippy for that info - really interesting to know! So we've also made alot of changes to our diet over the last few months, i haven't read the book but i think we're on the right track from what you & others are saying - But i love my coffee!! I will need to up my fish intake though.

Bippy, we never get many embryos to day 5 unfortunately, only x5 in both cycles ever made it to day 5 and of those, only 3 were able to be transferred and on my last cycle the two which made it to day 5 but they were showing signs of fragmentation so we didn't have much hope at all.

I've had almost 9 months off from IVF. For most of the year, i didn't think about it as i was getting over my last fail but have started to think about it again over the last month or so and am v confused. I hate this journey!


----------



## Efi78

I read this today. Sometimes I wonder whether I torture myself with no reason...am I better the way I am? Am I throwing my money away just to make my life miserable?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/magazine-38145118

Should we be careful what we wish for?


----------



## eyes

Bippy Thanks so much for that information. You have researched a lot on this aspect of IVF! Really useful. I have not been able to cut out carbs completely, still eat breads! 
Pauli, did your embryo quality improve with the new clinic with sperm selection techniques? Do you mind me asking which one is it?


----------



## Aley

Efi, I read that article a while back. 
To me, that doesn’t apply. Sure, one can argue that I don’t have kids and I don’t know what I am talking about. Maybe... But I know I had freedom, money and a great career and guess what? I wasn’t happy, I wasn’t fulfilled. I say I had because I am obviously broke now after ivf and my brain took a hit.  
To me is like a false dream there. Those women think that without their kids they would have had so much money and career and everything they wished for but the truth is they don’t actually know that. 
I know many women with a great career and filthy rich that have kids, nothing stopped them from achieving what they wanted. You can’t blame your kids for not being capable of dealing with life and living  your dreams, there I’ve said it.

Also, something tells me those women never struggle to get pregnant, for them it came easy. 
I am yet to meet an ivf mamma that says ‘I wish I didn’t have my children’ I don’t think I’ll ever meet one.  All the ivf mommies are absolutely delighted with their kids, love them to bits and I don’t think they’ll ever regret having them.


----------



## Carrie88

Thank you ladies!! He's had surgery and has had a stent put in. DH is still coming with me to London tonight for transfer on Wednesday. FIL should be out on Thursday. 
This is a sign for me now that things need to change, he's only 65 but relies on husband so much as he has no friends and hobbies. 
This couldn't happen on a more worse of a week cos I need support but husband won't be able to do both. 

Northern - wow!!! that is a great amount of eggs. How are you feeling? Fingers crossed for a great fertilisation xx

Eyes - I don't really have much advice but if anyone can help you I'm sure it's argc. Good advice from the ladies on here as well. All I'll say is, if one door closes another one has to open. We never thought we would but we've talked and we'd even do embryo donation now. Anything to get me our baby xx 

Bippy11 - ohmygod I can't believe all those changes you did. That's amazing!! You're so controlled. I do have pcos but mmmm sugar and refined carbs haha! Glad your changes though gave you results. The dairy thing I heard the hormones in milk etc can affect the hormones in ladies with pcos which we don't want as we're already imbalanced xx


Everyone I've missed (I'm on my phone) aley, kjade, bettyville hope you're all ok ladies, thanks for your support xxxx


----------



## Northern

Carrie that's a relief, glad he's doing ok and will be out soon although what cr*p timing for you and dh. Busy and stressful week for you but glad dh can still come with you to London. 

Day 1 results are in: 6 have fertilised normally, 5 have fertilised but 'don't yet show signs of fertilising normally', 7 didn't fertilise and 2 were not mature. That means that 18 of my eggs were mature which, given our previous cycles, is an absolute miracle! Clearly day 16 ec is what I needed all along! Just so glad to have something to work with - willing them on to keep developing and I want 2 put back on Thursday    
Xx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Carrie - sorry to hear about your FIL hun......glad he is doing ok though......you just try and focus on you guys now - FIL sounds like he is doing well - so try and focus 100% on you......good luck for wednesday..........

Northern - blimey!!! well done you.........good luck with fertilisation hun

Eyes.......its such a hard journey.......I think if you are not ready for donor then in my opinion get researching into things that will improve both egg and sperm quality. I took Melatonine for 15 days prior to the IVF cycle and through the cycle up to ET. I took CoQ10 200mg every day. Vitamin D Spray. Wellwoman Conception every day. Bare Biology Fish Oil (expensive but the purest and high dose). Curcumin every day(this is for immunes). Folic Acid/Folate every day. Serrapeptase (good for inflammation within the body). I also drink a glass of 100% organic pomegranate juice every day which is meant to be good for blood flow to the uterus and ovaries to help with lining, implanatation etc. etc. (generally good for fertility). I am also gluten free and majority diary free in prep for cycle........I think the main things to get advice on would definately be DHEA, CoQ10, a good quality fish oil. Also it is advised regular exercise can improve things like egg quality and lining etc. etc. because of improving blood flow to all the necessary parts. With regard to hubby's sperm - I would have recommended penny's protocol but note you tried that. I do feel for you as it is hard. We have now reached the stage where we are going to try donor before stopping IVF  altogether as we have tried all lines of enquiry as such. Good luck with everything hun.

Bippy........with regard to dairy - for me it is a personal choice really. I am now gluten free (for immune and inflammation reasons) and also read that dairy isnt good also if you have immune and inflammatory conditions - so am giving that a go too. I have to say that since going gluten and mainly dairy free my inflammatory conditions have improved. I am definately less bloated after eating etc. - used to get incredibly bloated. So really for me it is just a personal thing to give it a go - knowing that we have tried absolutely everything this time round when we go again. Whether it will make any difference we will see but at the moment even without the IVF side of things I feel better.

Bettyville - I feel your pain......this journey sucks big time........so hard - every time we take a knock you brush yourself down, because we all that that natural human feeling of "hope" we put ourselves through it all again.......although hopefully it will all be worth it and we will all look back and appreciate our children all that bit more because of it all........I think it is the "hope" that keeps us going.......

Efi78.......in all honesty only you will know if you feel you are throwing money away on IVF - if you do have questions -after reading something like that - in your head whether having a child could possibly make you miserable then maybe take some time out and have a good think before going again through IVF or down any route to achieve a family to explore your feelings........I can honestly say having been through the years of treatment that me and my DH have done in answer to your question "should we be careful what we wish for?" - in this instance absolutely not - I actually find the article absolute nonsense and not applicable to someone such as myself - and to be honest I would think quite a lot of ladies on this thread which is specifically for ladies that have endured many many cycles/treatment etc. of trying to have a child would find that article difficult to read and actually quite angry in all honesty - although that is my opinion.

KJade.......any news your end hun?? Hope all is going well......

Hey to all the other ladies who I may have missed.........

xx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

FAB NEWS Northern - well done........

 for the next few days.......hope those little embies keep growing nicely for you

xxx


----------



## K jade

Fab news Northern! 

Nat I noticed you took melatonin for your last cycle. Did u find it helped with egg quality? Where did u get it from? 
Can't remember who asked about diary but I think there is increasing evidence coming about that humans shouldn't have cows milk as we don't have the enzymes to digest it. I actually think it's caused me a lot of health issues that I've not been aware of. I feel 100% better since giving it up
X


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

KJade I got the Melatonine from Serum Clinic in Athens.......it was the Health Aid 3mg - used to take one tablet every evening just before going to bed - it didnt majorly affect me - apart from helped me sleep better - but didnt feel sluggish or anything the next day........I took this from the first cycle with Serum and saw a big difference in egg quality and indeed embryo quality for us - although obviously as you are aware still didnt work for us - but definately saw an improvement and would definately recommend it - maybe have a little word with Dr. Gorgy if and when you next go and see him, or your IVF clinic to see whether they think this would be right for you. Although cannot see it being an issue as basically Melatonine is just what our bodies produce naturally at night time to get our bodies ready for sleep. It definately helps me relax and saw improvements in egg and embryo quality since taking it.

Yeah I was told about that too re. dairy - basically was told that cows milk is intended naturally to fatten baby calves - calves/cows have two stomachs - cows milk really isnt meant for naturally human consumption for our one small stomach - that is why I think quite alot of people can have intolerances to it......

Glad the dairy free thing is working for you hun.......im not sure whether it is the gluten or dairy but my chronic urticaria is loads better - wonder whether all along I actually had an intolerance.....

xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Will up with everyone later as on phone and 10%.

Transfer may be cancelled.

My lad was 6%, then after 2 lit was 33% and now after the third lit it's 22%.

So it's dropped instead of rising.

My friend had lit on the same day though and hers has also dropped which I find odd.

Waiting to hear back from the clinic xx


----------



## Northern

Oh no Carrie I can’t believe this! Did they give no indication how or why this can happen? Thinking of you and please keep us updated xxx


----------



## K jade

Oh Carrie blimmey your having a real time of it   
Lits a tricky one. In my mind Dr G is the only person in UK who does LIT which makes u question the benefits. 
The way is see it is all women who've neve had a pregnancy have low LIT. Therefore providing your immune issues are all In line your body should then drive up the blocking anti bodies as a pregnancy continues 
But that's just my thinking  
keep us posted as to what they say 

Nat thanks for the info. I defo wanna try melatonin. No dairy again today and guess what. No headache  
X


----------



## bippy11

Hi everyone! 

Oh no Carrie!   that's so stressful for you! I am not sure what LIT or those percentages mean sorry, but I really hope that you will be able to go ahead.  

Northern, that's great progress, fingers crossed you will be getting two super embies onboard tomorrow  

Thanks Kjade, Nat and Carrie re dairy. I think if you get organic, the hormone thing is less of an issue as the cows are then not given lots of hormone with their food.. but anyway maybe I will try out some of all these exotic alternatives if this round doesn't work out. I think you are supposed to have dairy whilst pregnant, so I don't want to stop during 2ww. 

Eyes, it's fine to eat bread and carbs - you need some as part of a balanced diet. Just better to avoid refined where you can (white bread, white pasta, white rice, potatoes). For bread granary or seeded wholegrain varieties are good, and sourdough also good. You can get spelt pasta and for rice you can use grains like spelt and pearl barley. 

Bettyville sounds like you are doing the right things. What about decaf coffee? I don't drink coffee, so I don't know if that's repulsive to a coffee lover.. we have switched to decaf tea and now I actually prefer it to normal - think your tastebuds just adapt. (clipper is best for decaf tea because they dont use chemicals to remove the caffeine). 

Another thing is also to replace all cleaning products with natural eco friendly alternatives. 

KJade ask your doc about melatonin - mine prescribed it, but only wanted us to take it for about a week before ec if I remember - following same as what it says in the book (page 129). I think maybe it made a difference, but like I said, we did so many things that we will never know what actually made the difference or whether it was a combination of things.


----------



## bippy11

MrsC how are you doing with the 2WW? Has it been ok being back at work? I was ok today, work is providing a good distraction although I had to leave the room when 2 new dads started talking babies..


----------



## eyes

Carrie, I really hope the cycle goes for you as planned. I know nothing about the LIT, it sounds very complicated. 
Bippy thanks so much. And Natidragonfly I really appreciate all the advice, I wish I had joined in before. 
One more question I had was if anyone knows whether taking Maca is Ok or not? Does it help, are there any negatives?


----------



## Angedelight

Hi ladies

Loads to catch up on!!

Carrie-bloody hell, what a week. How is you FIL now? And your DH?. How are you holding up?.it's so tough when you mentally prepare for a cycle (and it's the mental and emotional side that's the hardest thing in my eyes) and then all these obstacles come up. Hope you've heard back from the clinic. Sending loads of positive vibes your way.

Bippy- welcome and nice to have another 2week waiter on here! I'm so bored of it already. This was a DE transfer. Previously I've had EC then 3DT and body has felt absolutely ravaged. Feel fine this way and was on all the meds before transfer so it's all very different. Will you hold out until OTD?. 

KJade any news on your NK cells?. Totally get what you mean about the goal posts moving in this journey, ours definitely have!.

Betty-knowing when to stop. My DH says this is the last time. Thank god we have a ❄ As a back up to take the pressure off. I know there needs to be a cut off point but I'm not as black and white as him. It's so hard. I feel like I've lived in infertility land for so long now, it's all I know!.

Hi Aley, Pauli and Eyes. Eyes you could definitely take more uniquinol. Glad you've ordered the Egg book. It's very informative.

Hi Efi. That article was probably wrote by people who didn't really want a baby in the first place and got pregnant by accident or didn't spend very long trying! I think for ladies like us you absolutely would not feel like that. 

Northern-fab EC!! Everything crossed for some great blasts and ❄❄. 

Nat my friend just posted a pic on insta of some red lentil gluten free pasta. It looked amazing. It must be so easy to go gluten free these days with so many alternatives.

Well 6dp5dt. Having never had a 5dt before there's so much new stuff to google! I think I've read everything ever written about 3DT/symptoms blah blah. It's much different having not put my body through EC as well. Trying to be positive but I want a sign or a symptom!!. I had cramping on the days when it/they should have been implanting. I'm literally so scared already of doing that test. It makes me so anxious.

X


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey Carrie.....sorry hun not any good with LIT knowledge......hope it sorts itself out.....always hurdles in this process. Good luck xxx

Mrs C. Yummy sounds good - yeah this is it. There is gluten free alternatives for everything. Good luck during TWW hun - symptom spotting sends you mad ha ha 

Xx


----------



## K jade

Liking those signs MrsC!  
Didn't realise you'd not done a 5 day before. No no NK cells on the doormat for me.  It's now been 3 weeks. Also waiting karotyping too. Will have to start chasing 

Betty I'm with u on the coffee, I think one a day is OK. I hope anyway. I literally cannot give up coffee it's my one bad habit 

Eyes I've tried Macca. I think it's not the best as can raise eastrogen. Wheatgrass is good to take between cycles though. It's naturally lowers FSH so when u come to do stims it can help with response. I put some with orange juice, berries and ice cubes in the blender, goes down nicely. 

I never read the article everyone's talking about but whilst on that subject does anyone get really annoyed by that 'bad moms' film that keeps being advertised. 
I know it's silly but it really annoys me. Why be a bad 'mom'? Why not be a good mum and just be grateful and shut up.  X


----------



## Aley

Kjade, is it the movie with Mila Kunis? Does it have a second one? I actually found that funny   
Don’t bother reading the article, is a waste of time, the movie is funny though.

Carrie, I am sorry darling. Hope this pain will come to an end soon, keep your faith! 

Girls, can I just say, because you were talking about coffee and stuff. I completely refuse to believe that I can’t get pregnant because I drink ONE coffee/tea a day. C’mon...
That coffee is the only thing that I enjoy at my work  I refuse to let it go!


----------



## K jade

Yeh that's the one. U know what it probably is quite funny, I'm just being bitter  
I'm exactly the same Aley! I refuse to believe that my one coffee a day which I really look forward to at work renders me infertile!!


----------



## Carrie88

Morning ladies, 

Transfer is still going ahead. 
Dr Gorgy is speaking to me this morning. 
He's probably going to get me to do pooled lit which I'll refuse. 

Everyone whose never been pregnant will have low lit. 
The fact it's only dr Gorgy that does it in the U.K. Makes me wonder about its validity. 

Going in this morning and then intralipids at 10am so will catch up with everyone then. 

Thanks for all your support as always xxxx


----------



## Northern

Carrie glad transfer is still going ahead - lots of luck to you and hope Dr G can give you some reassurance! Let us know how you get on xx

Hahaha kjade I know the advert you mean, I have the Scrabble app on my phone and it pops up adverts all the time - the Bad Moms trailer is its new favourite and I sit there and think ‘how come they get to be mums?’ Ha   there’s also a Mothercare one on our local radio which does my head in, I turn the sound down every time it comes on! God what is happening to me lol.

With you on the coffee - I tried going super strict for second cycle and it didn’t work so I’ve let quite a few little luxuries slip back into my diet! i just try to eat as colourful as possible with lots of fruit and veg. The no dairy sounds really interesting though.

Mrs C you don’t need lots of symptoms for a positive (from what I’ve heard...) - those you do have sound encouraging to me! Keep strong you’re doing great!

Will post again when I get this morning’s update xxx


----------



## bippy11

Morning ladies. 

Yippeee Carrie such good news that you can go ahead, so relieved for you   when will it be? what is LIT?  

Northern good luck for this morning's update! 

I don't think one cup of coffee a day can harm - we have to keep these things in perspective!   I drink so much tea that for me it was just easier to switch to decaf. I think anyway it is mainly if you are pregnant that caffeine should be avoided, so only really necessary to cut out during 2ww. 

I just ignore that movie. And that article.. I just dont want to watch / read it. I found its a good tactic to just ignore such things  

KJade get chasing your results and hopefully you'll get them soon. So frustrating you've had to wait for so long  

MrsC Ill wait till OTD, I never test early but particularly this time I had a trigger so need to make sure that is out of my system before testing. Will you hold out? Ive got some symptons but I know its the drugs because I have felt like this before when it was negative. Just have to keep reminding myself so I dont get carried away! I don't think symptons would show this early and for us with all the drugs we are on and with the hyper-awareness of every little twinge, there's just no way that we can know. I also feel different because I can't do any exercise. Dont know if its because of that or the steroids or the worry that Im not sleeping well - probably all of it! Yikes Im anxious too, I really don't know how Ill be able to cope if it doesnt work.


----------



## Carrie88

Northern - that is a great mature result and positive fertilisation report. Shows sometimes we do have to trust the professionals haha! Good luck with today's update. Hope you're enjoying Prague xx 

Kjade - haha I was also a bit frustrated with the bad moms trailer and poster. I didn't watch the first film and I defo ain't watching this one xx

MrsC/Bippy - hope you ladies are doing ok in your 2ww - stay strong girls! Wishing you both all the best xx LIT is where they take your husbands blood, and inject his white blood cells into you to increase your LAD levels. It's quite controversial though. 

Betty - I don't drink coffee cos I don't like it but I know where you're coming from. I've had KFC this week, crisps, doughnut and I thought oh man what if transfer doesn't work cos of my diet? Then I was like nawh get a grip, people get pregnant naturally with worse xx 

NAT, eyes, aley hope you lovelies are ok xxx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Morning Carrie

Fab news......so pleased ET is going ahead for you......good luck with it all today hun

I think the whole caffeine thing is so hard - its like all of it really gluten, dairy etc. etc. - I think because of what we have all been through part of me thinks we start to "clutch at straws" so to speak and think if we dont have caffeine, if we dont have gluten etc. it will work.....but I have tried everything out there and hasnt worked - but I dont think it is down to any of that but down to my body which needed surgery etc. to rectify and my weird immune system - not because I ate a mcdonalds ha ha!!!........I just think have to do whatever makes you happy.......I cannot realistically see that a cup of coffee or tea a day will stop something working if it is meant to work I really dont......plus anyway the stress of cutting it out for some people would be worse anyway..........I have only cut gluten and dairy for my chronic urticaria and other inflammatory conditions would appears to be really helping with and have heard for people going through IVF with inflammatory conditions it is good to get on top of them - so giving it all a go.......talking of KFC is making me want that now though ha ha ha!!!!!.......

xxx


----------



## Northern

We have 11 embryos! All 6 from yesterday are still going, and the 5 they weren’t sure about have all caught up - I am absolutely amazed! Have asked for transfer tomorrow as we have flights booked for Friday, then take the rest to day 5 to freeze. Anxious morning waiting for update but can enjoy the rest of the day now. 
So many ups and downs in this journey that I’m enjoying this ‘up’ today for all it’s worth  
Xx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

GREAT news Northern........

xxx


----------



## bippy11

Congratulations Northern, that's amazing!!! Enjoy it to the max   xx

Thanks Carrie. LIT - oh yes I have heard of that, it's pretty hardcore stuff. My doc is cautious about it.


----------



## Angedelight

Amazing news Northern!! X


----------



## Carrie88

Northern that is absoloutely amazing news.
Oh I'm so so happy for you xxxx


----------



## Angedelight

Carrie how are you getting on?? X


----------



## Carrie88

I'm all gowned up - just waiting to go In xxx


----------



## Northern

Eek exciting - good luck Carrie! Xx


----------



## bippy11

Good luck Carrie! Hope it's not too uncomfortable and see you on the other side for the 2WW! x


----------



## eyes

Good luck Carrie


----------



## Carrie88

Haha I'm now on the other side.

Ladies though for some reason I had to strain a bit to get my bladder to completely empty - straining so close to transfer shouldn't affect it should it? Xx


----------



## bippy11

yey welcome to the crazy 2WW Carrie - you got there!   Did you have one or two? (sorry if I have missed this in an earlier post)

No Im sure it wont affect it, after my transfer I didn't want to stand up or go to the loo after (even though I was busting) and the nurse was just laughing at me (in a nice way) and saying that it can't affect it. Try not to worry about it.


----------



## Angedelight

Congrats Carrie! Welcome to the 2ww. 
X


----------



## Northern

Congratulations Carrie! Happy tww try not to go too loopy haha   xx


----------



## Aley

Yey Carrie! Great news, I am so happy for you. I wish you a calm tww and hope this it, the embryo will snuggle in and stay there for a whole 9 months. 

Northen, great news too! So you’ll have a day 3 transfer? How many do you plan to put back?


----------



## Carrie88

Thanks everyone!! 

Back to work today.
Funny how transfer 1 I was like omg I must rest. I mustn't do anything.

Now I'm back to work like normal lol


----------



## Angedelight

Good luck for transfer Northern.
Carrie same! Literally think there's nothing left I could google so no point being at home.
X


----------



## Northern

Thanks ladies! 

Still looking promising this morning, we have 1 quality 1 with 8 cells, 4 quality 1-2 with 6 cells, the rest are now quality 2: 3 with 4 cells and 3 which haven't changed from yesterday. But all technically still alive! Transferring the best 2 at lunchtime, then keep the rest going to day 5 and crossing everything that we'll have something to freeze. Feels like the best result we could have hoped for so just have to wait and see. I absolutely love transfer though, quite excited   

Carrie well done going back to work, I think you're right anything to help pass the time! Hope that embie is getting comfy xxx


----------



## K jade

lol!!   u must be 1 in a million northern. I absolutely despise  transfer. all that poking on your bladder ! great news on the other embies. 

Carrie massive congrats to you! don't worry about the LIT stuff, I think its a bit of a party piece really. 

well my karyotyping came back , all  normal there so no surprises. Bit annoyed I was tested for that as surely if there were issues with that it would have been picked up on x amount of years ago. but I guess as they say DrG likes to leave no stone unturned. 
on the results there was a note saying my PA1 gene test and NK assay with intralipids were on their way. So should have a full house by the end of the week. 
then I guess its back to DrG for him to decide my fate, or rather the fate of my credit card.
ladies ill shut up about this in a minute as I'm probably boring the hell outta everyone, BUT yesterday I ended up pouring normal milk in my coffee as I didn't have almond. what do you know by lunchtime I was feeling sick as a dog!  

lots of 2ww'ers on here now!
cant wait for the BFPs


----------



## Northern

Well all done - 2 little embies on board! Haha kjade it’s not so much the pressing on the bladder but I enjoy but seeing the little embryos on the screen and watching them go in is pretty special - after all the cr*p we go through this is the only bit that feels like it has anything to do with babies! As she waved me off out of the theatre the doctor said “I hope never to see you back here again” haha   I would dearly love never to have to come back to Prague except for maybe in 10 years time when we’re showing our little one/s where they were made!

V interesting with the milk thing kjade- who would have thought? Glad the results are looking ok but it’s an expensive way to find out isn’t it!

Xx


----------



## bippy11

Congrats Northern! Welcome to 2WW  Hopefully you wont be back in Prague for a long time!  

Glad the tests were all fine Kjade. Keep us posted on the plans for you and your poor credit card x

Carrie I have to work during 2WW, I worked from home yesterday and by the end of the day Id nearly gone crazy! I need the distraction of being in the office, even though I find it hard to focus and difficult being around people sometimes, it's better than being alone with my thoughts!  

You might find this amusing ladies, my colleague was telling me about how her poor cat is unwell and they have had to take it to the vet and it had to have steroids.. and Im like 'oh no, poor cat..', whilst thinking - 'poor me, IM on steroids!'  

Yikes 2 more days to go for me. I got a spot today, wonder if it's because my period is coming or because Im pregnant..


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade - Glad the results are starting to come in. Karotype is still handy as if you had a balanced translocation you'd probably never know that.  Let us know when the rest do. Oh you are definetly onto something their with that milk situation xx

Northern - yaaaaay congratulations lovely!! Welcome to the 2ww!! Enjoy being PUPO!!

Bippy11 - oh your colleagues comment haha!! Yeah I've been there on the steroids and you have my sympathy being on them - I wouldn't of minded if I'd got pregnant but then when I didn't I was like argh, all this weight gain for nothing.
You're almost at the end now!!!
Crossing everything for you xx


----------



## K jade

What's balanced translocation Carrie? Is that when people have both male and female chromosome? Also do people with that have to use DE? 

Bibby haha poor cat 
X


----------



## Carrie88

K jade said:


> What's balanced translocation Carrie? Is that when people have both male and female chromosome? Also do people with that have to use DE?
> 
> Bibby haha poor cat
> X


People need pgd if you have a BT.
It's basically where you're fine and normal but your chromosomes have swapped places which will result in your kid having major disabilities.
So if someone has BT (13:15) it means their chromosomes are in the wrong places.
The karotype test would pick that up though xx


----------



## Aley

So, we have 4 lovely ladies in tww? 

Those 2 weeks are scary and so long but for me were also a bit magic, it is in the end the only time I thought I was pregnant.
I also love seeing the sparkle dots on the US machine xx
I hope you’re all feeling good and hopeful.

Kjade, is good you had the karyotype done, as Carrie said, you can be perfectly normal and functional but still have a balanced translocation, is very rare but possible.

I don’t know if I mentioned it but I’ll have a repeat aqua scan and a smear next week. Nothing exciting here. I guess just get some things off the list. I am a bit scared with the smear since I had some spotting recently. Touch wood it’s nothing. 
Other then that just taking few vitamins like b complex, vit d and omega fish oil.


----------



## Angedelight

Hi Aley I don't think I'd call myself lovely right now, more like bitter and negative! OTD Sunday but don't think it's worked ☹

KJade you def need to stay away from the dairy!!. What about milk in other stuff? Does that affect you the same?. Hoping the rest of your tests are ok and in soon.

Carrie how are you feeling?. How's FIL and DH?.

Northern how are you feeling? Hope you get good news and ❄ tomorrow.

Bippy fingers crossed for tomorrow.

I'm just all over the place. Cried all last night, then again on way to work this morning as I don't think it's worked. Too scared to test and DH making me wait till OTD Sunday. Get to work, pull myself together. Literally like 'ta da here I am' like I'm a normal person. Busy morning including interviewing for the permanent senior role I'm currently acting up in to. Did a great interview. It's like having a splt personality of being a dysfunctional infertile in my personal like and a functioning adult in my work life. I've got to socialise tomorrow, hoping the functional side comes out to play and I don't have hysterics into my lunch!.

Hi everyone else. 

I'm off to bed to now to sleep and get some respite from my head! 😂
X


----------



## K jade

Oh MrsC I can so relate to living a double life as a functional infertile ha! 
Luckily I don't consume much dairy other than tea coffee and cereal as DP is lactose intolerant so all dinners I make are diary free 
I HATE this part of the 2ww. U do all you can to just get through it. It's torture. Visualise that positive result. I'm looking forward to hearing your GOOD NEWS  

Thanks for the info about the chromosomes ladies. I knew nothing about it really. X


----------



## Northern

No blastocysts this morning - they’ve all stopped developing so we’ve nothing to freeze   can’t help it but it kind of saps the hope I have for the 2 I’ve had transferred, don’t see any reason why they would keep developing when out of all our embryos we’ve never had.a positive. 
Urgh, I hate getting down about it but I have 2 weeks of hideous progesterone and clexane and not a lot of hope, sorry ladies  

To top it all off in the last 2 days I’ve had a ******** pregnancy announcement and an invitation to a christening in Jan, it’s like people know and do it just for fun!   
Xxx


----------



## K jade

Oh northern that's dissaponting I can understand how u must feel deflated  
No it doesn't mean the ones u have on board are a write off, they were transfered as they were the best ones, others didn't make the grade but that doesn't mean your 2 aren't gonna cut it . Often it's only 1 or two of a whole batch that are potential babies, that's quite normal I believe. 

Urgh social media announcements during 2ww. 
I'm not gonna patronise u by saying 'but of course they're not really doing it to upset you' cause sometimes I really think they are! Why else do people post they're whole personal lives online for all to see? To congratulate themselves and make  others feel jealous of course   as u can guess I'm quite anti social media


----------



## Aley

Northen, I know you don’t feel it but you have a good chance. You transferred the best 2 and from reading back they were 8 and 6 cells and that’s how it should be on day 3, the rest didn’t look like they had progressed in a desired manner hence why they didn’t develop into blastocysts later. The transferred ones do have a good chance, try and focus on that.

MrC, one more day to go. I am impressed that you didn’t crack it and test it by now. 
It’s great you’re a functional adult, after my 3rd ivf I became both a dysfunctional infertile and a complete paranoid/depressed/highly dysfunctional adult at work so you’re doing great by keeping it together. 
I hope you’ll have a good day today.


----------



## Northern

Hahaha thank you kjade that’s exactly what I needed to hear! I hate social media really and never post anything, it’s just habit scrolling through and then Bam there it is.  One day when I see someone flaunting their scan picture id love to post one of my many scan pictures of my ovaries covered in 18 follicles, swollen to b*ggery - just to show that some of us have ultrasounds for other reasons!! Ha I’ve always been a cynic but Ivf has really brought it out in me! 

I’ll be ok, it’s just another reminder of how hard it all is xx

Thanks Aley, you’re right I shouldn’t write them off just yet. 

Thinking of you Mrs C, you’re incredibly strong to make it this long without testing! Absolutely everything crossed for you xxx


----------



## Angedelight

Round 7 is another bust. I've known it for the last couple of days. In floods of tears as soon as I woke up so saved FMU then went and got tests. I'm sure something tried to implant as I had cramps at the right time then 5dpt I had a strong metallic taste in my mouth all evening which I had last year when we had a positive result for a brief time. Was so positive that DE would be the key for us. 
I'm deleting all my social media accounts as if I see anything like you've seen Northern I'll probably have a complete flip out! Have the faith that your 2 little embies are the ones. Keeping everything crossed for you.
X


----------



## Northern

Oh gosh Mrs C I don't know what to say, I'm so very, very sorry. There's nothing to make it easier, if anything it takes a little bit more of us every time and it just gets harder. There are no words for it, it's just the hardest and most devastating thing. 
Sending you huge virtual hugs and wish we could take the pain away for you. 
So so sorry lovely     xxx


----------



## K jade

(((((((mrsC))))))))) massive hugs and (((((((mrC)))))))) 

We all know exactly how u are feeling on this thread so remember that. U are not alone.


----------



## eyes

So sorry to hear about this Mrs C. It is always very very hard, please do take some rest and time off


----------



## bippy11

Oh Mrs C, Im so so sorry   It's horrible, I wish there was something I could offer to make it better for you       Hoping you've had a big glass of wine by now. Look after yourself and each other xxxxx

We don't know yet!!! Went for blood test at 9am when the place opened this morning. 8 hours later and no result yet. We're going mad   x


----------



## Bettyville

Hi ladies,
MrsC - so sorry to hear this news, sending you lots of virtual hugs & love.
Bippy - good luck
Northern - hope you're doing well.

Hi to everyone else xxx


----------



## Aley

MrsC, I am so sorry


----------



## bippy11

Morning ladies, good news for us - we got a positive!!! It's not really sunk in, feels a bit surreal. I am going to try and remain cautiously optimistic for the next 3 weeks and really really hope this one works out. 

Thank you all for your support, I only wish I had found this thread earlier. I will be checking in to see how you are all getting along and Carrie and Northern Im really wishing you will be joining me with positives soon.   Try to keep distracted as much as possible during the difficult 2ww. xx

MrsC Im thinking of you xxx  

kJade, Aley, Bettyville, Eyes, Nat and everyone else, stay strong, you ladies are amazing and I so hope you will get lucky on your next try   xx


----------



## Northern

Oh Bippy that’s amazing news!!! Congratulations!  This calls for dancing bananas....
       
Wishing you a very happy and healthy 9 months and so hope everything goes well xxxx

Happy birthday Aley   xx


----------



## bippy11

Hahaha thank you for the dancing bananas Northern   x

Happy birthday Aley!!!


----------



## Aley

Awe, thank you girls, you’re very sweet!

Congratulations bippy! I am so happy for you.  

Northen, how are you keeping? Hope you’re more positive today.


----------



## K jade

Oh bippy that's amazing! 
That really gives us all hope that multiple bfn ladies CAN do it. Your with serum aren't u? Can I ask what u did differently this time? I know you probably already mentioned it before  xx 

Aley happy birthday


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey 

Mrs C I am so sorry. Really is so hard. Each time it doesn’t get any easier. Take some time out. Be good to yourselves xxx

Northern - it’s so hard as I know that feeling so well - you need to keep away from social media. I came off it all a year ago and it felt weird for a few weeks. Now I am thankful that I did - life does go on and lovely things happen for people but I don’t really understand why we feel the need to have to post it all. I’m definitely an anti social media. 

Also don’t be down on your news of no frozen. Doesn’t mean anything. Look at it this way people sometimes have two or three embryos transferred and only end up with a singleton. In all honesty the clinics can only do so much in a dish - best place to develop is your womb. The two you had put back were done because in all honesty they were developing better all along with excellent cells etc etc. The others were a bit behind in the race. It only takes one keep that in your mind and you put in two excellent ones. Forget the others they didn’t make the grade but your other two DID. You relax and enjoy your TWW bubble. 

Xxx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Bibby - congrats so pleased for you hun. Good luck with the next 8 months xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Oh mrs C I'm speechless and it's not often I'm speechless.
I have no words of comfort - just know that I'm so sorry and I'm sending you the biggest hug.
You're with an amazing clinic and hopefully they will have answers and a plan for the next time.
I hope you've been looked after this weekend and I'm thinking of you xxxx

Bippy - that is amazing news!!! Congratulations lovely!!! Bet you are over the moon  xx

Northern - sorry you've had none to freeze but just because you haven't definetly doesn't mean that those 2 inside you won't grow. They're in the best place to grow. How are you feeling? Xx

I'm ok. I feel no different to all the other 4 times.
My husband yesterday said to me he feels anxious about this not working so now I'm like ah crap :/
Did some retail therapy yesterday and that helped ha.

Hope everyone else is ok xx


----------



## Northern

Haha Carrie retail therapy always helps! I'm doing ok thanks, feeling a bit better and have just been snacking on chopped brazils (with Galaxy lol)
Hang in there, tww is mental torture at the best of times! 

How are you doing today Mrs C? Sending you massive hugs xxxx


----------



## Bettyville

Ah massive congratulations Bippy - wishing you all the very best.

Mrs C - how are you today?

Northern / Nat1DragonFly - i've contemplated coming off social media for a long time. In fact, i have x2 ******** accounts - one for all my fertility stuff and the other for keeping in touch with friends / family. I have an instagram account too but i've been v restrictive on who i add to that - even family / friends, that's my space where i let out how i'm feeling (although i haven't put anything fertility on there yet but am on the verge of doing so) - it's my only safe social media place at the moment. 
DH & I had an argument this morning, i suffer from anxiety and can get panicked about house work / my eczema / work - this leads me to feel really anxious and this morning i was feeling v fragile. Anyway, he  wasn't the nicest about it - i don't think he meant it, it's just that he doesn't think before he says things even when i've told him in the past to think before speaking. He said something along the lines of "this is getting ridiculous" and i just started to cry, i know that he wouldn't say to our sis in law who has arthiritis to run when he knows she can't so why say horrible things to me? Anyway, he's realised that what he said wasn't the nicest at all - don't think he / people will ever understand how crippling it can be (thank you fertility). 
Anyway, hope you're all doing ok today xxx


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey Bettyville

Awww hun   I totally get you with the anxiety side of things - and it just hits you out of the blue sometimes - my DH finds anxiety difficult to understand at times - he and his family are not particularly emotional and find emotional people difficult to understand- I think this whole process is so difficult as your both suffering but it comes out in different ways - we all cope and handle things differently. Think you go through times where your both on same page and supportive and then others when it feels like they don’t get how your feeling - that’s normal - let’s face it even without all the ivf stuff you get times like that - . I still stand by the whole Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus things ha ha!!Glad he realised he was unreasonable- hope your feeling ok. Try and relax as much as possible. I have been using the Mindful IVF App which is good as free to download and free to use the prep meditations - only 12-15mins long each too. 

Be good to yourself and if you can just talk talk talk about how your feeling - I always find it helps rather than bottling as makes anxiety worse. 

Xxx


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## Carrie88

Awww bettyville - men definetly don't understand. 
I have generalised anxiety disorder and had cbt for it about 3 years ago - I have relapsed slightly but that's not to do with the ivf and husband tries to understand but I know he doesn't. 

Sometimes when my anxiety is so bad and I've repeated the same question he just stops answering me, which I can understand why but it doesn't help. 

Hope you're feeling better now xx 

I agree with NAT - I've downloaded the same app. I used the free ones and I've actually paid for the pre and post one (I listened to it during acupuncture) and the 2ww one as well - it's really calming xx


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## Angedelight

Hi ladies

Thanks for the virtual support and understanding, definitely helps!. Have had a few meltdowns and lots of tears. On Saturday after we tested (wasn't meant to test till Sunday but couldn't bear it anymore) we had plans to meet DHs family for lunch. He didn't want to leave me then I didn't want us not to go and explain why which would upset his Mum and then have an impact on BIL birthday lunch. So we went and I played the part that I'm good at playing and then burst into tears after we left and were walking  back to the car. I think the sad thing is that I'm so used to managing the fallout of a failed cycle that I can still function. 

I updated my profile signature, just look at it!. I never thought I would be one of those people that clearly didn't know when to stop. DH is more accepting of the fact that it might not happen and he wants the ❄ to be the last. I on the other hand think the only way this will be fixed is to have a baby. How can you invest so much time, money and effort into something and it not work, or walk away without the end result??.

Anyway, I'm going to go and see Dr Gorgy. I'm also going to get the uNK biopsy done but looks like that won't be until January as you need to have 1 period after IVF. Then it's Christmas- how I wish I could sleep till that's over, all that overload of smug family happiness. Carrie & Kjade could you PM the details of what the clotting tests Dr Gorgy does tests for as will get them done via LM as cheaper. KJade did you get KIRS done at LM?.

I'm convinced something tried to implant as had cramps at the right time and 5dp transfer I had a very strong metallic taste in my mouth which I've only ever had last year when we had the brief positive. So def want to get more immune investigations done before we say that's it.

Bippy huge congrats on your positive result! Keep checking in and letting us know how it's all going, great to have some good news.

Northern and Carrie hope you're not going too crazy in the 2ww.

Aley hope you had a nice birthday.

Bettyville/Northern/Nat- I deleted all my social media accounts on Saturday. It feels weird but think it's definitely helping. Maybe in a few weeks I'll feel differently but right now I just need to cocoon myself and not have any unhelpful triggers. 

Carrie & Bettyville, I hope you don't mind me asking but did you have anxiety pre fertility stuff?. I just wondered. I've only experienced it as a result of all of this and it knocked me for 6. I work in mental health and it's really made me appreciate how disabling low mood/anxiety can be. I hope you have some good/effective coping skills in place to help you manage when it gets really bad.

Nat- I just downloaded that app, thanks for sharing.

Hi everyone else.

X


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey Mrs C

Awww hun - I know that feeling of putting on a brave face for the benefit of others - your a brave lady - well done for going......hope you made time afterwards to relax

As for anxiety - this kicked in for me really after a few rounds of treatment - didnt even realise I was suffering with it - just had a melt down and ended up going to counselling (which was brilliant) and definately helps me at that time.......for me I think I am a perfectionist naturally with everything and in a way this not working is like a imperfection as such and I really struggle with it at times.......anxiety for me is strange as I can go for long periods of time feeling absolutely fine, coping with everything no matter how difficult - then bam - one day just hits me for no apparent reason and will affect silly things like feeling overwhelmed with normal day to day things - I do find keeping busy helps, walking my dog, talking to family and meditation and just keeping up with every day life i.e. going to work etc.......

That app is a good one......I like the fact the meditation is short bursts of 12-15 minutes - I do them in bed just before sleeping and really helps me sleep well.......

It is good to see that you have a plan going forward - that always helps doesnt it - have heard good things about Dr. G - good luck with it all.......I think when we get to the stage we have done with numerous cycles not working I think it is only natural for you, and/or DH to consider stopping or knowing when maybe enough is going to be enough.......but you will both know when that time will be......and by the sounds of it it isnt quite yet as you are consulting the immune side of things.......good luck hun

xx


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## Carrie88

Oh MrsC I've been thinking of you so much this weekend - you're defo one of the strongest ladies I know, especially after still going out at the weekend. 

My anxiety started way before we started pgd, I've always been quite anxious and paranoid but it started when we bought our house as it was really stressful - my car broke and I asked for an increase of my credit card limit and then I got paranoid our mortgage would be refused as you're not supposed to apply for extra credit once your application has gone through so I believed my phone had been bugged by the bank and when I used to go on money saving expert I believed people from the bank were on there spying on me. 
I used to be obsessed with checking things as well and if I didn't do it 4x something bad will happen so I used to check things 3x and then 1 extra for good luck. 
I used to check the taps, hair straighteners, the hob and the door every time I left the house. 
It was baaaad. 
I did a psychology degree so when I recognised my problem I went to the gp and refused all medication and asked to be referred to CBT. 

I'm definetly not like that now. The ivf hasn't made it worse at all - other triggers have caused me to relapse. 

Sounds like you have a plan in place - I will pm you. Have you managed to speak to serum yet? Are you back in work today? Xx


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## Bettyville

Hi ladies
Thank you so much for all your replies. My anxiety has come through my fertility issues, I never had it before and not only has it bought about this condition but my eczema and asthma are also a lot worse than they've ever been! I've been seeing a counsellor for a few years now but it just creeps up on me - affecting everyday issues, I have no idea what's happening. I've changed my life loads too - become a freelancer so I can take time off when I need it but I've found that when I have time off, it really affects me too. Maybe I have too much time to think and stress about it all. Really, I just want a business from home where I can base my life around it - it's always been my ambition to be at home. Doesn't sound very ambitious I know but that is what I always wanted, not all the stress of commuting and endless meetings. 
I'm definitely going to look at this app though - I do go to yoga and meditation - they have been a lifesaver for me.
How r u all doing?
MrsC, sending you lots of love x

Betty x


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## bippy11

MrsC I can't believe you went to the lunch! Wow that is really some feat, there's no way I would have been able to do that. I know what you mean though about being a functioning normal person socially and professionally whilst crumbling on the inside, I do the same thing at work. Sometimes it can help to just pretend and get on with things, but sometimes you do need to let the emotions out too. Im glad you can have a good cry with your hubbie. Thinking of you    Good luck with the immune investigations and Dr G. xxx

Nat, Bettyville and Carrie I once read that research has shown that women who have had miscarriages sometimes suffer from ptsd. I wonder what a similar study linked to women undergoing fertility treatment would show! 

I also do yoga and meditate - and have actually been looking for specific fertility meditation for a while, so I will give this app a go! 

My social media is restricted to face book where I have about 50 friends and only log in a couple of times a week. 

Carrie and Northern, hope you're doing ok with the 2ww, it's so up and down xx

Ive got intralipids tomorrow and another blood test to see if hcg is going up. Yikes Im so scared and it feels like there are still so many hurdles, but I have to try and remember that we are past a big one and to stay positive.


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## Aley

MrsC, your pain is almost palpable. I am sorry.  
I am with you at not giving up without a child. You're damn right, even though I understand why some people would want to give up ivf because is a life killer, on the other hand why go through all this pain and disappointment just to give up in the end. 
I don't know how you managed to stay sane at the birthday lunch. I burst in tears many times in front of people that maybe I wasn't even close to. I just don't feel I need to hide my pain. Having a failed cycle after you've had ivf is a drama, there is no other way of putting it and people should understand that. I refuse to put a brave face anymore, I refuse to stop my tears just for the sake of others.
I also think that hiding our emotions makes us prone to have anxiety and depression. Better out then in when it comes to that. 

Betty, I think men can be very insensitive, is not that they want to, it's more in their nature. 
I know that sounds a bit patronizing coming from me but probably because I had both sides I can have a fair idea   women and men are definitely different when it comes to emotions. Try not to take it too serious. 

bippy, fingers crossed for the second hcg.

Carrie, how are you hun? Hope you have that positivity high up.


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## Angedelight

Might be of interest:
Hannah Vaughn Jones the presenter who wrote a great piece about infertility in The Times is doing an online real time IVF diary on YouTube. This is the 7th round with no positive outcome as yet.  Just watched all episodes so far, thought it was a really good portrayal. Her and her husband seem lovely. Fingers crossed for them.
X


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## Aley

I love that lady, she’s my new hero.


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## bippy11

Thank you MrsC, just read the article and will watch the videos too. 
In case some of you haven't come across it, a book I have found helpful (despite make me cry lots) is An Emotional Companion by Brigid Moss. Lots of different stories and perspectives from different people.


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Thank you for the tips ladies........im going to watch the You Tube videos when I can

xxx


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## K jade

Can someone say again the name of this app everyone's talking about? Sounds good 

Betty working from home would be my dream. Go for it! Would love to do that and would have my dog for company. 

Never heard of this lady but what a trooper. I'll look her up 

As for the anxiety mine has got so bad in the past it's verged on paranoia. My meds help but I'm in the process of tapering them off as I cannot trust they are not affecting my hormones 
Right before Xmas I know what am I thinking  . If I do get pregnant and make it to second trimester I'm right back on them for life 

Bippy your so right about women who've done multiple ivf having ptsd. I was only thinking that the other day before u wrote it. Best of luck for today. 

MrsC glad your feeling a bit better. Actually when I first saw your post my thought straight away was see Dr G.  get your immune issues sorted once and for all.  Penny is a wonderful practitioner, but I do believe there are still women like us who need that by the book, no stone unturned, nothing left to chance approach. Bang and the dirt is gone type thing! Will send u details of LM. Dr G accepts these results. 
With u on not giving up. Failures temporary. Quitting is forever as they say. Maybe that's idiotic. I've learnt to build a life around ivf so it no longer consumes me. I have hobbies, friends, OK career. If it continues like this so be it. 
The other alternative is the Epsom miscarriage clinic if Dr G is not for u. Baking Queen favours him as he got her success after 10? failed cycles. He's an immunologist too. 
Xx


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## Baking Queen

Yes - it was 10th time lucky for me.

Mrs C - I am so sorry - I know it hurts like hell.  Take some time out and think about what you want to do next.  I found that planning my next step helped a lot.

Hope you don't mind me chipping in ladies - everything you write just resonates with me so much.  When I was on around my 4th failed cycle there was an amazing group like this on here that I joined and it was a real eye opener as I learnt loads about immunes problems.  I don't often comment often but I'm always reading and rooting for you all.

Take care.

BQ. xx


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey KJade........its called Mindful IVF xxx

Awww thanks Baking Queen - this has definately been my saviour over the last few weeks xxx


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## K jade

Baking queen of course no one minds! Your story gives us all hope 

Major stress on. I came back from London cause had to go there for work yesterday. Expected to finally find my long awaited PA1 gene and blood NKs waiting on the mat, but no. Just loads of junk mail! 
So I took it upon myself and called TDL to find out what the hells happened. Oh it turns out they didn't bother to send those ones to me, just forwarded them straight to FGA last week. 
Why have they not sent me those ones? Is it cause they revealed something terrible that can't be fixed? Phoned FGA and have follow up 2 weeks Thursday... 

Nat thanks. Think I need to use that like now!


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## Carrie88

Kjade - yes it's th mindful one  ooh tdl never sent stuff to me, it always went straight to fga. If you call fga now they'll email them to you xx 

Nat- how are you holding up? 

MrsC - I may watch that later. She also sounds like she's a pincushion princess!! 

BQ - did you notice any difference between your positive and negative transfers? I'm feeling the same so thinking it's not worked  

Bippy - fingers crossed for your second hcg xx 

Aley - I'm faltering a bit today but I always do at this point - I just want to know if it's worked now. 

My beta has been changed from Chester to Manchester - by the Trafford centre. 

It was either stick at Chester on Friday but not get the results till Sunday or drive to Manchester (about 40 minutes away) and get the results end of working day Friday. I opted for Manchester xx


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## Bettyville

Hi ladies,
Ah Hannah Vaughan jones - I'm following her on instagram, it's been great to here another person in the public eye talk about it. I wish that there were more who talked about it - did you know that Geri from the Spice Girls also went through IVF recently. She's only just spoke out about it. Her son was naturally conceived but in her article she talks about the emotional impact - wish she made more of a deal about it though!

I know you guys are also talking about immunes - I've had all mine done but are there more advanced tests? Any Ines in particular? Although to be honest, I'm quite fed up of all the tests, investigations and hospital visits!

MrsC - hope you're doing ok.
Bippy - sending good thoughts for your second hcg 

Betty x


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## Baking Queen

Thanks Ladies

Carrie - I don’t think I really noticed anything different from other cycles apart from really odd cramps in my legs that I had every day of my pregnancy and 5dp5dt I was woken up very suddenly in the night and was sick straight away. I think that was the first bit of HCG entering my blood stream. I was on 25mg of Prednisolone so I’m sure that masked most things. I’ve got everything crossed for you. 

Bettyville - what immunes tests have you had? And where did you have them done? My old clinic offers all the immunes tests but don’t really understand what they mean.

Sending you lovely ladies lots of love.

BQ. xx


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## bippy11

Hi everyone, 

We just got the result - my HCG has trippled!   was 700 on Saturday, now 2,550. I don't really know about these hcg numbers as they never told me them on the NHS and I didn't know to ask at that point, but my doc said it's good and high. yippee! We've got our scan in 2 weeks time, I am going to try to remain positive, but not get carried away - it's a fine balance!  

Carrie, please don't worry if you don't have symptons - 2 weeks is too soon to really feel anything. And anything you do feel can't be separated from what you might feel from progesterone etc anyway. Plus the fact that your mind is going crazy analysing every little thing that on a normal day you wouldn't even notice. Not long to go till Friday, hang in there - haha I think I would have gone to Scotland if it meant getting my results the same day rather than waiting 2 days! x

Northern how are you doing? When are you testing? x

BQ nice to hear your success story   10th time lucky - wow, just shows there is always hope!

Kjade surely they can give you the result sooner than in 2 weeks time? Can you not get a phone call with your doc or something? I feel like as you are paying for it, that's really not good enough if they have the results now and you have to wait that long for them.


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## K jade

Haha baking queen think I know what clinic u mean. Did u come to any decisions about what to do about your Tnfa? I know u wrote it had gone up 

Bippy yes!!! Great numbers. Maybe twins? U have 2 put back? 

Well I got'em! The NK assay and PA1-1 Gene. girl at TDL emailed them to me. 
So my blood NKs are all in range. no elevation whatsoever  only abnormality is  one which is actually LOW 
I'm on phone but tomorrow I'll type them onto here. So it doesn't look like I have NK cell issues. 

My PA1-1gene came back as mutated heterozygous so there's an issues there 

I feel like my immune issues are really strange and unusual. Normal NK s but high Tnfa. Missing KIRs but only one missing rather than the three people talk about. Then the random clotting genes...


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## Carrie88

Ohh bippy that is great news!! Congratulations!! Another hurdle crossed!! Now you're in another 2ww haha xx

Kjade - I think mines positive hetrozygous so GDoc put me on metformin - which once I got past the side effects has been great. You may think you're strange and unusual but I'm sure you're not - it's going to be nothing GDoc hasn't see before chick xx 

BQ - that's good to know you didn't have any significant symptoms during the 2ww xx

Bettyville - there are a lot of tests - which ones have you had? Xx


----------



## Northern

Bippy that is amazing news! So excited for you, they are amazing numbers! Could well be 2 in there but either way it looks a very strong figure, hope the next 2 weeks fly by and you'll soon see your little baba/s heartbeat   

Kjade I'm sure Dr G will be able to make sense of it. Relief that the NKs are ok though, it's one more piece of the jigsaw and another thing to cross off your list.  Hopefully you can start to piece things together a bit more now and come up with something that works. 

Mrs-C have been thinking of you a lot, hope you're doing ok, you're a very strong lady you know.  Facing all the family at a time like this is a real challenge, you did so well! Hope you've had some time alone and just with dh too to let yourselves feel down and to process it a bit - glad you're thinking ahead though, that's the only thing that keeps me going too.  I'm with you on not giving up, what is the point after everything we've been through just to let it all be a waste.  It absolutely has to work out somehow, one way or another.  I'm pretty stubborn and determined not to be beaten by this, I don't think any of us deserve to be!  Sending you lots of love and hope you can start with next steps soon, when you're ready xxx

Baking Queen thanks!  Nice to hear from someone who has been through this and come through the other side!  There is hope for us all haha  

Carrie hope you're surviving, Friday will soon be here - good day to test then you'll have the weekend to let the news settle in.  Thinking of you xx

I'm doing ok, actually my calmest tww so far I think - probably because I'm already convinced it hasn't worked so just going through the motions really.  In spite of that, the last few days I still had a little hope that maybe they were still there, growing away, but then I woke up in the middle of the night last night and just thought "the feeling has gone; they're not there anymore, I'm empty" ..... I had this last time about halfway through, just completely lost all feeling that something was going on, and was convinced it had failed.  Not a nice feeling, but I'm trying to just carry on and hope for the best.  God what I wouldn't give to see that elusive second line on a s*dding pregnancy test though!  

Xxx


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## K jade

ok here they are in case anyone who understands them wants to give me their tuppence worth

NK assay 
50:1 *22.3 * (10.0- 40.0 reference range)
25:1 *15.8 * (5.0- 30.0 ref range)
12.5:1 *11.8* (3.0 - 20.0 ref range)
IVIG 12.5 mg 50:1 *13.7*
IVIG 12.5mg 25:1 *10.8*
intralipid 1.5mg 50:1 *10.7*
intralipid 1.5mg 25:1 *10.7*

%CD3 *79.9* (Ref range 60- 85)
%CD19 * 5.2* (2 -12)
%CD56 *9.9 * (2-12)
%CD19+cells,CD5+ *3.0 (LOW) * (5.0-10.0)

although it doesn't look like I need either IVIGs or intralipids , by grace of god, intralipids do work better for me anyway.

also PA1 4G/5G polymorphism. heterozygous mutated.

seeing Dr G on the 30th

Carrie I might be wrong but didn't think that you can get any early pregnancy symptoms when you do a FET as your whole body is shut down anyway though the oestrogen you are taking. so there would be no way of knowing at this early stage. keep positive

northern try to keep hopeful. I see too many women on here post that they are certain it hasn't worked and then to their disbelief they get a BFP.


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## K jade

absolutely fuming ladies 

turns out the reference ranges on the paper are complete bo****ks and my NKs are mega high after all!
apparently the lab ranges  are just for normal life not fertility so similar to the thyroid thing. 
(why would you even have NK tests if it wasn't for fertility  treatment I don't know)

feel I've been completely led up the garden path and given a false sense of reassurance that my NKs were OK and it was just my TNFA and clotting I had to contend with. now all this. 

now I feel treatment is going  to be mega expensive and stressful , and im not even sure if the NKs can be brought down enough as it appears they only got down to 10.7 and apparently they need to be below 10

at least , from what it seems,  the IVIGs didn't actually bring them down as much as the intralipids although I cant actually trust anything on this paper right now

**** wow well I've just found Agates NK assay guide which actually has the fertility reference ranges on, not the completely meaningless ref ranges. really wish I had that last night before I was lured into false sense of security*******


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## Northern

Ah Kjade you poor thing!  I've no idea how anyone is supposed to find out the right ranges for fertility from any of this - to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't actually research into what the proper ranges even are for fertility - as with anything there must be people with their levels all over the place who never have any idea but still get pregnant naturally, and then for others it's a massive spanner in the works. 

I see you're getting some helpful replies on your other thread so have nothing helpful to add, just want to send you some sympathy!  I'm sure Dr G will be able to interpret better for you and come up with some suggestions - you're in the right hands now to make sense of it and get the right treatment xxx


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## K jade

Thanks Northern, I've calmed down a bit now, just cannot believe general medical reference ranges, they really annoy me when they mean nothing. It's literally just like the thyroid thing and the Iron thing. The lab reference ranges they quote are utter rubbish. 
On agates file it says that as long as they come down to 15% that's good. Mine came down from 22% to 10.7% with intralipids so there's some  hope 

On another note does anyone know how long u down reg for if u do long protocol? X x


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## Angedelight

Hi ladies

KJade, on my results from LM it was the CD3, CD16 & CD56 that made up the NK cells and gave me a value. Mine was 17.8 % and considered 'significantly high'. Like you though mine respond well to intralipids- thank god, at least they're cheap (compared to IVIg) and more easily accessible. You've got CRGW near you who will do them for £150. You could send yourself mad trying to interpret it all. The Dr Beer book is good for trying to make sense of it all or get an appointment with Dr G to suss it all out. I guess at least now you are getting reasons as to why it might have not worked before but it's a whole new lot of things to comprehend and factor in. Hope you're ok.

Carrie keeping everything crossed for tomorrow. Hope you've managed to keep distracted. I obsessively googled on my 2ww despite saying I wouldn't!. Will you POAS in the morning or wait for the results?. Do they phone you or email you?. 

Northern keep postive! When are you testing?. 

Bippy- those numbers are great! 

I actually think I'd probably cope less well with a BFP and the new anxiety and worry that would bring than I do with the BFN because at least that's known territory!. When we got our positive last year it was faint and HCG very low (but did initially double) so kind of knew it wouldn't end well. But then I wonder if because I'm so used to it not working that I'm psychologically blocking it?! Even though I know no amount of positive thinking and relaxing is going to overcome all our issues!! You just drive yourself mad thinking of all the things you could and should do.

Thanks to all for sharing the onset of anxiety problems. I have also read that ongoing failed IVF has been likened to PTSD. It's just so sad the impact that ongoing infertility has. I function around infertility like you KJade but this is not how I imagined my life turning out. 

DH is away training this week so it's not been great timing but I've been ok. Been at work which I find helpful and kept busy outside of that with walking the dog, back to the gym etc. There's only been a few crying fits. Part of me wants to tell Serum to destroy that last blast and just move on from it all, get a puppy and leave infertilityland behind.

My worry is that if we pursue further testing and things come up that my mindset will be that one more transfer isn't giving it enough of a chance and I'll want to do another round. On the plus side DE has been so much better for me mentally and physically. Don't get me wrong, I did a lot of crying, grieving and counselling to come to terms with not having a bio child together, this was first suggested in March 2016 so it's been a lengthy process. Getting blasts and a ❄ For the first time made that decision seem the right one. I had to work so hard to get better egg quality with supplements, diet, detoxing, it was a lot of pressure for no return.

Penny said we could even transfer after I've had a bleed and everything would stay the same. I'm not putting anything back until there's been further investigation as to why 2 top quality blasts didn't get anywhere, as well as 4 top quality embryos since I've been at Serum.

So lots of thinking to do. It's so hard to know what to do for the best.

Tell you what, no social media is amazing!


Sending love to all. This thread really has been a godsend and definitely helped me feel less alone so thank you all.


X


----------



## K jade

MrsC glad you are feeling OK. 
ive spoken to a few ladies on pm and it seems my reduction via intralipids is a positive thing, and hopefully ill be able to get these at crgw, as its literally half the price of FGA. 

to be honest whilst I still have my social media account, everyone who posts about babies has been deleted and all my page shows is pictures of dogs, and posts from private groups I've  joined such as 'money saving tips', 'budget cooking from scratch', and 'reduce your supermarket spend'. I've finally found a point to social media!


I was joking with my friend last night that in light of all this PPI stuff can the government not do something for us? 
something along the lines of :
"have you been mis-sold information on how easy it was to get pregnant?"
"did you waste a proportion of your childhood sat in sex education classes when you didn't need to be there?"
" did you waste time and money as a teenager taking contraceptive pills and queuing at pharmacies in the freezing cold for the morning after pill?"
"have you ever spent money on a pregnancy test when you never actually needed it?"

then you could be entitled to compensation!

how about that ladies? you think that could be an idea? we could use the payout  for all this IVF and immune stuff? 

carrie thinking of you, and focusing that tomorrow WILL bring you positive news


----------



## Angedelight

Yes KJade!!! I love that!
The contraceptive pill sent me mad/made me put on weight and I didn't need the bloody thing as even with the best science in the world it's not happening! Or the condoms we used which aren't cheap when I couldn't take the pill anymore (because it sent me so mad)  😂😂
We should start a campaign!!.
You'll definitely be able to get them at CRGW. They didn't even ask to see a prescription from Serum but I had seen Amanda for a 2nd opinion. 
So are your NK cells raised? Have you had a womb biopsy? Was that raised?
X


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## K jade

I know and condoms well they used  to be £3 a pack and you only got 3!  they were in my day anyway .  bet they have gone up now. and that's another thing. the sheer embarrassment of having to buy them especially as I grew up in a rural place and everyone knew everyone. 
another thing which makes me wanna sue for damages!  
makes me laugh as my sister worries about her 15 year old  daughter getting pregnant as she's off the rails. I didn't want to say listen if she's got my genes then you do NOT need to worry haha!

yes my bloods are definitely raised from what I can gather.  they need to be below 15%. mine are 22%
yeh my Quenby biopsy was totally normal and on the low end too at 2.02%. (anything under 5% is normal)
im going to dig out old Beers book again and have a second read as so much has  changed for me since I have last read it. xx


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## Northern

Kjade you crack me up    totally with you, "were you mis-sold information about your reproductive system"? 

In a similar vein I am considering applying for a new post in my job, which is meaning rewriting my CV (which I haven't looked at for years) - it's so tempting to put under "other skills", "co-ordination of multiple cycles of IVF abroad, managing this alongside my current role, continuing to come to work with a smile when my heart is breaking, keeping complete confidentiality, in depth knowledge of embryo development .... etc etc"  - I honestly think all of this demonstrates exactly the skills you're looking for!  Organisation, communication, people skills, learning new things, taking on a challenge, dealing with disappointment (/devastation) ..... I could go on. 

Maybe we should invent some kind of award for people like us and it can actually count in our favour for once instead of just counting against us all the time!


----------



## Carrie88

Ohmygod girls you have truly cracked me up reading this page. 

Northern - if only you could put that hahahaha!! Hope you're doing ok - stay positive chick. When's your test date? 

I remember being on the pill and being a bit of a party animal in uni and I needed the morning after pill 2 weeks on the run as I'd missed a few pills - I may as well not of bothered!! 

Kjade - how confusing about your results. I'm not sure what gdoc will suggest - only because last year my NKC biopsy bloods came back as high so I went on intralipids and steroids - still failed. 

This year because the NKC biopsy came back as low (which is the most important) that's why gdoc refused all steroids and pre intralipids. I only had them on transfer day. 

Now I told him I was uncomfortable with that based on my bloods from last year and he basically said his decision was based on the biopsy. 

It's like last year I was told not to have the scratch cos of high NKC - this time Gorgy told me to have it and he didn't want to oversuppress me. I still feel a bit uneasy about his decision though xx 



Mrs C - I've still not tested I'm waiting till tomorrow. I presume they'll email me but I don't really know hmm, I'll ask tomorrow. I've been thinking about you a lot this week, you seem to be handling this better than how I will if tomorrow is negative. 
There is a lot to think about, there's a lot of questions you want answer too before you continue isn't there? After my transfer 4 failed in April with intralipids, steroids, fragmin and aspirin I was devastated as I know so many people have success with that, it's an awful situation to be in. Big hugs!! 
Have you had a follow up with Penny yet? Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Ok kjade these were mine which gdoc highlighted. 

50:1 - 23.0

Ivig 12.5mg/ml 50:1 16.1 

%cd3 85.2 


Gdoc highlighted all 3 so must of classed them as high so the top 2 need to be below 15% 


Originally he told me he was going to give me 10mg of pred and more intralipids but then changed it based on the NKC womb biopsy reading and that's what I didn't feel comfortable about.

If it fails tomorrow because dr Gorgy has missed this I will go mental xx


----------



## Angedelight

Carrie I was just looking at your sig as if I go on and get more stuff tested it would be KIRS/LAD/ full clotting screen and womb biopsy. We have no DQ alpha match as tested that. Raised blood NK cells which come right down with intralipids. Normal TH1/TH2. Prior to this last cycle I've taken steroids 10mg when stimming and clexane and aspirin. Intralipids on transfer. When the NK cells came back high before this cycle I did intralipids 15 days before ET and again on ET. Plus 10 mg pred for about a month before.

Had a scratch/implantation cuts on last 4 cycles. Basically if I get all this other stuff tested what can they do for it? What do they do for KIRS and low LAD etc? I wrote Penny a lengthy email and she said carry on and she wouldn't change my protocol. So I can't be bothered to speak to her. Over 3 cycles I've had 4x grade 1 day 3 embryos transferred 1x grade 2 embryo and a 4AA and 5 AA. They can't all be duds! And that's been OE/OS, OE/DS, OS/DE. One very early MC and I'm sure something tried to implant this time. We got the furthest with OE/OS!!! 

I'm keeping everything crossed for you tomorrow. I hope the day goes quickly!! I'd have to POAS, I literally would not cope waiting!. 

X


----------



## Carrie88

Mrs-C said:


> Carrie I was just looking at your sig as if I go on and get more stuff tested it would be KIRS/LAD/ full clotting screen and womb biopsy. We have no DQ alpha match as tested that. Raised blood NK cells which come right down with intralipids. Normal TH1/TH2. Prior to this last cycle I've taken steroids 10mg when stimming and clexane and aspirin. Intralipids on transfer. When the NK cells came back high before this cycle I did intralipids 15 days before ET and again on ET. Plus 10 mg pred for about a month before.
> 
> Had a scratch/implantation cuts on last 4 cycles. Basically if I get all this other stuff tested what can they do for it? What do they do for KIRS and low LAD etc? I wrote Penny a lengthy email and she said carry on and she wouldn't change my protocol. So I can't be bothered to speak to her. Over 3 cycles I've had 4x grade 1 day 3 embryos transferred 1x grade 2 embryo and a 4AA and 5 AA. They can't all be duds! And that's been OE/OS, OE/DS, OS/DE. One very early MC and I'm sure something tried to implant this time. We git the furthest with OE/OS!!!
> 
> I'm keeping everything crossed for you tomorrow. I hope the day goes quickly!! I'd have to POAS, I literally would not cope waiting!.
> 
> X


Hmm yes something does seem amiss there chick!! I don't agree they're all duds either.

KIR problems - I'm on neupogen for those. 
Low LAD - gdoc will reccomended LIT xxx


----------



## bippy11

Hi everyone, 

Haha thanks for the chuckle Kjade and Northern  Surely our IVF related organisation and coping skills and experience should count for something!! I agree, we all deserve an award!  

Northern good luck for the job. I recently took on a little more responsibility in my role and am actually quite enjoying it, after shying away from any professional development / progression over the past few years as I worry I wouldn't be able to cope during difficult times. But it's been a positive, allthough it's only a small change. How are you coping with 2WW? 

Kjade its good that intralipids can bring your levels down - by quite a lot! 

MrsC you are coping so well, you are a very strong woman! But do give yourself time and space for those crying fits too, it has to come out. Some big decisions you have to make about further tests. Are you looking for a different clinic / doc for a second opinion? 

Carrie bestest of luck tomorrow, really really hoping this will be your lucky one!   xxx

Im finding this 'second 2WW' stressful (sorry I know this is a luxury and you may not want to hear about this) Despite my best intentions to stay cautiously optimistic, I find myself lapsing in to fear and worry at times. Im feeling quesy and tired (which Im loving   ) but then I do remember these symptons from when we had our first positive and we just had an empty sac at the scan. DH gave me a good pep talk this morning though as Id been awake half the night worrying and Ive downloaded the mindful IVF so am going to give Mr Motivator a listen now


----------



## K jade

Oh carrie that's interesting, so he clearly values the biopsy more than the bloods 
Well I guess at least it makes things cheaper 

MrsC I did bits of testing here and there  and initially it didn't look like I had anything wrong with me. Thought my failures were bad luck. It wasnt till I went to G doc (haha I like that carrie) that bamm the whole picture emerged. 
For missing KIRs neupogen is what's prescribed, neupogen is a highly affective drug for this.  LIT is  for low LAD. But the LIT/LAD thing is only relevant if your a dq match which I understand u and Dh are not. 
Get the clotting done too. I thought I was a OK then low and behold I have mthfr and pa1 4g/5g

Northern get those skills on that CV! why not. U don't have to be specific to ivf. Say in my personal life I assisted a relative to access medical treatment abroad and this required a lot of research, organising and communication. 
Bippy I can understand how this must be a really anxious time. Take it one day at a time, and defo listen to the CD x


----------



## Carrie88

Bippy - defo use that mindful ivf app. It's really helped me the 2ww. I like his Irish accent!! What date is your scan? Xx

Kjade - yes apparently so. 
I also thought if the bloods were mega important why don't Coventry do them alongside the biopsy? 

I messaged my friend whose also under GDoc and apparently her ranges are also around 20% but low NKC biopsy. He told her no steroids, just intralipids but if she gets a bfp he's going to then put her on steroids. 

So least he seems fairly consistent? Xx


----------



## Rio2016

😂😂😂 adds ‘IVF’ to LinkedIn skills - we all should get awards. I honestly think I’ve learnt so much going through all this xx


----------



## Carrie88

Been awake since 4am. 

It's gonna be a looooong day xx


----------



## Northern

Thinking of you today Carrie! Don’t know how you’ve found the willpower not to test!! Lots of love and I have everything crossed   Xxx


----------



## bippy11

Carrie it will be the longest day, but by the end of it you will know. Are you at work or home? Everything crossed for you xxx


----------



## K jade

carrie today will be a nerve wracking day for you, there's no doubt about that. but I have everything crossed that its going to end on a high!
x


----------



## mattysmrs

Carrie my lovely. Thinking of you today and sending all positive vibes. Remember I had zero symptoms before my bfp, nothing at all. Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Thank all my lovely ladies!!! 

My bloods have been drawn. 
Results by 6pm. 
They'll be emailed to me. 

She put the needle in my left arm though which is my good one and no blood came out. Hopefully that's not a bad sign haha!! 

I'm at home Bippy. Well right now I'm in Manchester haha so gonna start driving back should be home by half 11 and then I just need to entertain myself for a few hours xx


----------



## Northern

Well done Carrie!  Get yourself home and put your feet up, there's no more you can do so have a few treats and give yourself an easy day.  Thinking positive thoughts for you    
Xxx


----------



## bippy11

oh well done Carrie! It's so nerve-wrecking going for that bloodtest,  I was hyperventilating before mine, which doesn't really make sense because it's not like they are going to take your blood and then tell you the result there and then!

Glad you're not having to go to work. Watch some telly, read a book, do a cross-word - anything to stop too much thinking! xxx


----------



## Aley

Best of luck, Carrie! Thinking of you.


----------



## Angedelight

🤞🤞🤞🤞 Thinking of you chick. Sending all the PMA your way x


----------



## Bettyville

Good luck Carrie!! Sending love and lots of positive thoughts!


----------



## Carrie88

Thank you all. 

No news yet ladies. I'm going crazy. 
I've called them and apparently the results are gonna be another hour and a half xx


----------



## Northern

Oh Carrie I’ve been checking all afternoon hoping you’d have heard! You must be pacing the floor, hope they’re not too much longer!! Xxx


----------



## Carrie88

I really am. It's so hard xx


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## bippy11

aargh Carrie! The same thing happened to us! It's exhausting, I definitely went a bit crazy that day! Hang in there, you're nearly there hun! xxx


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## Angedelight

Carrie I'm on tenterhooks for you!!!!! X


----------



## Carrie88

Still no news xx


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## Carrie88

Negative.


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## K jade

I am absolutely gutted for u Carrie. I've been awaiting your update all evening, we all have I'm sure, and my heart just sank. 
Really no words just many many hugs to u and dh 
xxxxxxxx


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## Angedelight

I've been checking in all evening. I'm so sorry for you and DH. Had everything crossed and so hoped this would be the one for you. Sending lots of love to you both. words seem so insignificant. I'm thinking of you both x


----------



## Aley

I am so sorry


----------



## bippy11

Carrie Im so so sorry   xxx


----------



## Baking Queen

So sorry Carrie. Sending you a massive hug. Be kind to yourself.
Loads of love.
BQ. xx


----------



## eyes

I am so sorry to hear that Carrie. Really difficult time. Please take it easy and rest.


----------



## Carrie88

Thanks ladies.

Bet at is 6.8 at 9dp5dt so definetly out. I just want to know if it's a chemical pregnancy or the trigger? 

I took 1500 pregnyl on the 7th, 1500 pregnyl on the 9th and 1500 pregnyl on the 11th.

Will the pregnyl be out of my system by now? Xx


----------



## Northern

Oh Carrie I’m so so sorry, my heart goes out to you I was so hoping you’d have the positive news you deserve xxx
I’m not sure about the pregnyl, I guess it’s not too long since your last one so there could still be a trace now but I’m really no expert. Big hugs to you and do look after yourself   Xxx


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## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hey Carrie

So sorry hun......   It hurts so much. Take time and look after each other. 

With regard to Pregnyl I would have thought 6 days after wouldn’t have very much in your system if anything. 1500iu is a small amount in comparison with trigger which is much much more - which is why they advise not testing too soon as can still have trigger in your system during first week of the TWW. I would have thought that the Pregnyl would have been gone. Maybe drop the clinic an email and ask as they will know. 

Sending you a big hug xxx


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## mattysmrs

So sorry My lovely xx thinking of you. I know when you are ready and in the right frame of mind you will get your answers. Xx


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## bippy11

Carrie dear, been thinking about you this morning. Sending big hugs xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Thank you ladies.

Because beta was 6.8 - he wants me to repeat on Tuesday with a progesterone check as well.
He's also told me to stay on meds, sigh xx


----------



## K jade

U never know Carrie 
I did read of somebody under serum having a live birth with a reading of 8
X


----------



## Carrie88

K jade said:


> U never know Carrie
> I did read of somebody under serum having a live birth with a reading of 8
> X


Ohymgod no way?? Xx


----------



## K jade

Yup. U just don't know. Follow G docs advice and continue with the meds as he clearly believes there's reason to 
Anything over 5is classed as pg. 
Just seen another story on baby centre of a woman's who's was 9 and she had twins. 

I mean Don't pay too much attention to me as u know I'm anecdote lady and I do have a tendency to pull that saviour story out the bag for people which might at times be inappropriate,  although I hope not. 
I'm just saying follow his advice it may be a drag continuing with the meds but as I said he clearly thinks there's a reason to 
Xx


----------



## Carrie88

K jade said:


> Yup. U just don't know. Follow G docs advice and continue with the meds as he clearly believes there's reason to
> Anything over 5is classed as pg.
> Just seen another story on baby centre of a woman's who's was 9 and she had twins.
> 
> I mean Don't pay too much attention to me as u know I'm anecdote lady and I do have a tendency to pull that saviour story out the bag for people which might at times be inappropriate, although I hope not.
> I'm just saying follow his advice it may be a drag continuing with the meds but as I said he clearly thinks there's a reason to
> Xx


No way have you got the link? 
I'm pretty sure it's the pregnyl that's caused the 6.8 but I suppose GDoc has to be sure xx
.


----------



## Northern

Wow that’s an amazing story kjade! X


----------



## K jade

Google low hcg live birth it should come up 
Sorry I'em a technical remo and don't know how to copy links 
My hcg was low.  I'd given up on my progesterone support as I thought it was game over. Sometimes I wander how things would be if I hadn't. But then I had undiagnosed immune issues so probably things would have gone same way. 
I've no clue if these stories are true or just urban myths, as they are from a forum 
Take the meds, that's all u can do. Absolutely nothing to lose 
Xx


----------



## Carrie88

I've found it, very interesting thread thank you Hun xx

I'll keep up with my meds.
I'm still drinking a glass of wine though ha xx


----------



## K jade

Glug all the wine u need. And chocolate, cake, biccies the lot. 
Rubbish Saturday night TV too. I find that strictly ballroom programme takes your mind off things. And pj's! 
Xx


----------



## K jade

How u doing today Carrie? Hope u managed to get some rest. 

Northern how you doing? Hanging on in there OK? 
Xx


----------



## LuckyMoo

Hi ladies I wondered if I could ask your advice as reading some of this thread I seem to have similarities with some of you. I have just had my 4th double donor fail at serum trying for a sibling. 

I’ve had perfect blasts transferred each time and the one that got me bfp never developed properly and ended at 9 weeks. I’m considering having a womb biopsy has anyone had one? I’m sure Penny will just put me on the same protocol again. But I’ve noticed I get total negatives if I have scratch and/or implantation cuts. I’m on pred, clexane, Neupogen etc. 

I have 2 more straws frozen with 1 of the same donors for half sibling but then that’s totally it as I’ll not use 2 new donors. 

Thanks for listening

xx


----------



## Carrie88

I'm ok. I've managed to sleep and we've booked a holiday for over the xmas period/new year. 

Girls I'm seriously thinking about a surrogate. 
I'm going to ask Gorgy if it's worth carrying on. 

Lucky moo - sorry to hear of your struggles  can they not do the same protocol you did with your successful bfp as they know that works? Xx


----------



## bippy11

Carrie been thinking about you. Great news that you have booked a holiday! That'll be perfect and so nice for you to have to look forward to. We did the same for Christmas a couple of years ago. Although we love spending it with our family, it was amazing to just get away from everything during that time. Where are you going? Glad you've been able to sleep. I think getting surrogates in the uk can be complicated, but see what the doc says. But also ask about a different more natural approach to thickening the lining as that may also be an avenue to explore for you. You will get there one way or the other   xxx

Northern hope you are doing ok in your 2WW, you must be getting close to OTD. Got my fingers and toes crossed for you  

Lucky Moo sorry to hear of your failed cycle.   I had a biopsy during a hysteroscopy and also had an ERA test. I think it's useful to have, although as you have already had a successful pregnancy then that would suggest that the protocol you followed then could work, as carrie says.. 

We had a bit of a scare last night.. DH usually does my injections, but we had agreed that he could go to the pub to see a few of our mates and I would inject myself and he would call to check in at our usual injection time. Well I went to the loo just before and there was a little bit of blood when I wiped. Just the tiniest bit, but that is what happened the two other times before I miscarried and I know blood is not generally a good thing. So I completely broke down into a crying mess, I could hardly get the words out to explain to him what had happened. He came rushing home straight away and managed to calm me down and also our doc reassured me which helped. But I am so scared it's going to go the same way as before and I just don't know how I will be able to cope.   Doc has put me on rest for a few days, so I am going to have to call in to work and tell my manager tomorrow, which is going to be strange as he will be the first person we tell (apart from you guys!). He knows we are having treatment and is very supportive, so Im sure itll be fine. No one else in the office knows though (well at least I haven't told them, but Im sure a few people suspect) and I don't really know what story to cook up, especially as Ive had a few days off and working from home quite a bit lately.. I think ill just say Im unwell and leave it at that. anyway, that's a minor thing and we just have to focus on trying our best to help our little embies!


----------



## Northern

Oh bippy I’m so sorry you’re having this scare, the last thing you need is more stress and worry on top of all you’re already feeling. Try hard not to panic and remember that bleeding is very common in early pregnancy, especially ivf pregnancies, you’ve done everything you can to look after yourself - let your clinic know and just rest for a few days. Don’t worry about work - it will still be there when you get back - this is more important, just tell them you’re sick.
Thinking of you and sending positive thoughts xxx 

Carrie been thinking of you too, glad you’ve slept and well done booking a holiday - definitely one of the best things you can do, having something to look forward to is so important. Interesting thought about surrogate - I guess it depends if the doctor thinks it’s more the embryos that are the issue or the womb - good question to look into at follow up. Lots to weigh up for you and hope you and dh are doing ok.

I’m surviving but rapidly losing hope (not that I had much) - have been sneakily testing for the last few days and it’s still bfn so far. I know it’s early and that can change, but I think it’s unlikely to at this point. I know early testing is bad, but I like to mentally prepare myself and get used to the idea before I have to actually face it. Or - if it was positive - see it as early as possible and watch it grow. Haven’t told dp and will carry on coping til blood test on thurs. I’m ok but been to the parents for the weekend and have been a bit teary on the train home just thinking about it all, but am actually better than I thought I might be this time round.

Love to everyone xxx


----------



## K jade

Bippy try not to worry too much although I know it's impossible not too. bleeding is very common in ivf pregnancies I've heard . Medics may say no bleeding is good, but I guess they're referring to the general population not those with more complex histories

Lucymoo I had the quenby biopsy in coventry. It tests uterine nk cells. That the one you mean? 

Carrie glad u managed some sleep and good call  on the holiday especially over x mas and new year which is not the easiest time for any of
When is your review at Gs? 
I can see how u are thinking about next steps and I'd be lying if I said surrogacy wasn't something I'd pondered too, although I think it would be complicated as my embies are made with DS 
honestly there is nothing worse than making beautiful embies, embies which are potential babies,  just to have them die off cause my body doesn't have a clue what they are and what to do with them. It's utterly soul distroying. 
I think Dr G will be able to give u a steer on which way to head. You are young, he may have more ideas up his sleeve. 
I have to say however I have seen so many women on FF who think they are at their limit and can't take much  more, then things turn around and they finally get that bfp when it all seemed  hopeles and there was nothing more left to try. Women who simply believed they didn't hold the mechanisms to orchestrate implantation, one of whom even said she doubted whether  the Dr was actually  transferring anything.  
I do think natural estrogen induction may be worth discussing with G. And viagra and tamoxifen too. 
After your review you can reflect on everything during your holiday and which way to proceed. 
This whole process is brutal and not for the faint hearted and you have earned your stripes and proved u will find a way, one way or another 

Northern Sorry your not feeling hopeful. I do think u won't see anything on Hpt until AT LEAST 9dp5dt. if I'm not wrong 

Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Bippy - Aww did you  yeah I feel a bit guilty being away from family but we need this - we're only going to Tenerife but it should be warm. 

The holiday cost as much as 1 x LIT and a retest. 

It does seem tricky but I've joined some online ** groups and chatting to people it's worked for. One woman has a genetic condition so has used a DE and a surrogate. One lady on Instagram had her failed transfer in march and is now pregnant with a surrogate in Georgia. My friend has also offered to be a surrogate for us as well  
Failing that we may look into adoption? I am getting to my TTC limit  

Oh what a worrying time for you. I don't know anyone though whose not had any bleeding the first 12 weeks. Everyone seems to have it but of course you're going to worry about the miscarriage. 
Take your doctors advice and rest up. No housework, cooking, heavy lifting - you rest up!! 
Don't worry about work either - just say you've been unwell - say you had tonisilitous ha! I was off work for a week xx 

Northern - oh lovely this breaks my heart to read, you are still early though even for a 3dp transfer - they're slow implanters. I'd say if you've not seen anything by Tuesday then I would accept it's a bfn. If I could give you a massive hug right now I bloody would - this process is just crap xxx

Kjade - thanks lovely. No review booked as of yet. Going to try get one in the next couple of weeks. That's just it - we've transferred 6 embryos now and 3 of them with an immune protocol. 
I've got a list of adjustment suggestions thanks to you ladies on here etc. 
I do have thin linings anyway due to my period so don't know if I could do natural? Xx


----------



## K jade

Its natural estrogen induction. So your body is given stims even though your doing a FET (I think). So your using your own high dose estrogen instead of artificial. Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Oooh I see - yes that could be an option then xx


----------



## bippy11

Thank you ladies for your reassurance, it's good to hear that bleeding can happen and it still go on to be fine. I just freaked out because of what happened before. Im still worried and I feel like symptons have gone   All I can do is hope and rest up, so that's what Im going to do. 

Oh Northern, Im so sorry you've had bfn so far. Ive never tested early, for me it would be worse torture than waiting, but we all deal with this differently and I can see your logic of mentally preparing. I think it sounds like it is still quite early, so I really really hope it turns around for you   have you tested again this morning? xxx

Carrie Tenerife should still be nice a warm, how lovely   don't feel guilty at all, hopefully your family will understand. And you can just get together before or after christmas anyway. 
Hopefully youll get some clarity from Dr and he can help you make a plan for the next step forward. I think it's worth giving it a go with the different natural approach to thickening lining. You take a low dose of stimms (as you don't want lots of follicles to start growing) and that mimics hormones that would help lining grow in a natural cycle and then you also have the triggers to give extra support to the lining. See what Dr says. Maybe you will feel strong enough after your holiday to give it another go. Otherwise it's amazing that your friend has offered to be a surrogate! x


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all

Carrie- hope you're doing ok. Are you back to work this week?. Great news about the holiday and such a good time to be away. Christmas can do one! My DH buys me a tree decoration each year. In 2013 & 2014 it was those ones you get at The Christmas market,  a couple one with our names and the year on. I said no more of them until there's more than 2 of us.  Fast forward to Christmas 2017- still 2 of us- and this years bauble has just been ordered from Banter Cards and says Merry F**king Christmas! 😂😂 

Sounds like you've got some things to think about. Another friend I met on FF has come to the end of the road with transferring back into her and is doing surrogacy next. There's an active ** community for people looking for surrogates/offering to be them. And how lovely of your friend to offer. I can see your embryos have been screened for PGD I guess that test also says whether they are completely normal in every other way?. So frustrating. I really hope you get a follow up soon and a plan in place. 

Northern- agree that you've been testing early. Really hope things turn around for you. Thinking of you.

Bippy- rest up. It seems from what I've read and people I know who have had successful IVF pregnancies and even normal pregnancies a bit of bleeding is normal. Hope you're feeling better today.

KJade- did you get an appointment with Dr G to talk through your results?. Love your anecdotal stories, we need things like that!. 

Hi Luckymoo- agree with what someone else said about following your protocol that worked. I'm just about to find out about womb biopsy though as a next step. Doesn't hurt to get as much info as possible. I know Serum focus more on blood NK cells but I've done loads of reading around uterine ones. Definitely worth exploring.

Hi everyone else.

I'm still up and down. Had a really stressful day Friday at work and cried all the way home and most of Friday night. Just what DH wanted to come home to after being away all week!. I saw some friends for a brunch on Saturday but they're work friends and don't know about any of this so I pretended to be a normal fun person. For someone that hated drama at school my acting skills are amazing!. 

Our plan is to get the Coventry biopsy done. Phoning up today to see when that can happen. Get Locus Medicus to do a full clotting screen/LAD & KIR tests after Christmas. I might get them to repeat my blood NK cells too. Then see Dr Gorgy end of Jan and see what he says and look to transfer Feb/March in conjunction with my natural cycle. The other thing I was worried about was DH saying the Frostie was the last go ever. In my head I was thinking, what if something gets thrown up then we have only one shot?. DH has said if that's the case we could do another DE round so that's made me feel much better. Feels good to have a vague plan and timescale in place. 

I so wish we didn't find ourselves in this situation. It's so draining and exhausting. This thread has been so good for sharing ideas/ information and support. Thanks for starting it KJade.

X


----------



## Bettyville

Hi ladies,
Carrie - how r u?
Bippy - how r u doing today? Any more blood? Hope you're resting.
MrsC - i've had the biopsy done in Cov and it was painful! Apparently you can ask for gas and air and i'd strongly recommend it. I never usually moan but this was painful.
Northern - fingers crossed for you.

Update from me - well we received the costs for our treatment plan and it's astronomical!! £18k for x2 rounds of ICSI+embryo banking. To be honest, i wasn't expecting that and it's really made me think about whether i want to go ahead with treatment or not. If it doesn't work, we'd like to adopt but being Indian, we'd need to go to India and as a result, that cost is another £12K. Seriously now confused and don't know what to do.
My mind is all over the place - can't concentrate at work, eczema is rife and all i really want to do is be at home, doing yoga and lying on the sofa. I've been freelancing for the past year and whilst it's going really well, i'm starting to think about whether this is really for me or whether i should be in a full or part-time job where i know that i have guaranteed income, i think that the not knowing my income in the next 3 months does add some stress to me & leads to my eczema flare ups. However, i don't want to do be such a demanding role, freelancing has taken some of that away from me luckily - guess i need to figure out what i really want 

Hope you're all having a good Monday so far - bring on the weekend!


----------



## Angedelight

OMG Bettyville! Where is that? Have you looked at going abroad? Even though you have to factor in flights and accommodation I've found it far less stressful than cycling in the U.K as it feels like a bit of a break too. And it's cheaper. Are you doing PGS? Prague does it much cheaper than over here. Decisions, decisions!. I think until you know what you're doing treatment wise don't add another stress into the mix with work and interviews etc. At least you have flexibility right now. But only you know what's right for you. 
Xx


----------



## Bettyville

Thanks MrsC - it's CRGH and yes, they've discussed PGS testing too. BUT seriously WTF?!

Due to my anxiety, i really don't want to be cycling abroad, it's crossed my mind and in fact, it would probably be far more cheaper for us to go to India but i can't face taking a plane. I haven't travelled since 2015 as my anxiety & eczema have gotten really bad.

We are now just debating whether or not to do anything. The cost is huge and i understand that it's x2 rounds with all the other bits added but still. I'm now questioning altogether if i really want to do this.


----------



## Northern

Omg Bettyville, what!?  That seems extortionate, have you looked at any other clinics for something similar?  Even if it means travelling within the country, it might be worth it if somewhere else could offer you a cheaper package.  I know travel can be an added stress, but we've found that once you get there, it does completely remove you from everyday life and allows you to give yourself fully to relaxing and letting the cycle just happen.  Lots to weigh up with it though. 

Also might it be worth making enquiries over here first re. adoption?  I imagine there are little ones of all different cultures needing a home, wouldn't like you to rule it out assuming there wouldn't be a match for you, it's quite possible they need adopters of different backgrounds.  Might be worth having a chat with a social worker before you rule it out completely.  Bless you what stress you're going through. Try writing it all down, all your different options and the pros and cons of each, may help you organise your thoughts and make some sense of them.  Big hugs   xxx

Hugs to you too Mrs-C, ha I know what you mean about the acting skills, we should all be Oscar winners I think for such convincing performances!  A bit of a breakdown is only normal, glad your dh was home instead of being alone when you were upset.  Glad dh is opening up to other options too, and sounds like you have a pretty good plan coming together. xx

11dp3dt and still bfn here, feel like af is imminent....  
xxx


----------



## Bettyville

Hey ladies,
Thank you. Hmmm maybe we should look elsewhere now, i'll have to think carefully before deciding what to do.

We have looked at adoption here in the UK and have even been to some initial meetings to learn more about the process - there's also been press on adopting children from different cultures and them being denied + there are very very few asian children for adoption here in the UK and we were advised that going abroad would be our best option.

I think the next 5 years off from work would be great so i can figure out my life!


----------



## Northern

Ha that would be lovely Bettyville I could do with that too!  A few years off, a big sunshiney holiday, and a whopping great sum of money, then I might feel a bit better about it all!!!


----------



## K jade

Betty 18k is ridiculous, I really don't agree with clinics charging that amount .  please think carefully before thinking you have to pay out that sort of money. As the others have said serum offer 2 cycles for 4k. Czech republic even cheaper. Going abroad does feel daunting when you first do it, but not as daunting as spending 18k.
CRGW down near me do a  icsi 2 cycle  package for 5k and a three cycle package for just over 6k. maybe worth a look into. That way you wouldn't have to travel abroad. 

Northern I'm sorry you still are yet to see a positive. thinking of you hun  

MrsC great that you have a plan together. that sounds like a good course of action to me. do as much as you can then take to all to Dr G . I have my follow up with him on the 30th. hoping for an affordable solution (ha!)

interestingly (or perhaps boringly) I have had 2 colds now in about a month. 
this is unusual for me as I rarely if ever get colds and I wander if the diet changes I've made and supplements have started to bring down my tnfa and NKs. 
on a less positive note tapering of the happy pills isn't going too well. I'm sad/ emotional and angry all the time and have screamed a couple of times at DH, who doesn't take it well


----------



## Bettyville

Thank you ladies - we really are thinking about it!! We totally agree that it's WAY too much! 
xx


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## Carrie88

Bettyville - that is a lot Jesus!! Although I know the pgs part is expensive. If we did a private pgd cycle I know it would be about £12,000 cos of the testing of the embryos. Can you get some quotes from another clinic? Xx 

Bippy - thanks for this. I've never heard of this protocol but I've screen shotted it to learn it so I can speak to Gorgy about it. Hope you've been resting and keeping your feet up? Xx

MrsC - hahaha your baubles!! I love that! Sadly no the pgd isn't pgs so they could be abnormal in other ways and we'll never know which is annoying!  Sounds like you've got a good plan there and I think they would be my next steps also and that's good DH is happy to go again if needed (although hopefully not). You're very brave seeing your friends as well - I don't want to see any friends xx 

Northern - you know I'm crossing everything for you that negative test changes to positive. Are you in work this week? Xx

KJade - that's interesting about your cold - you never know!  Hmm is there any way you can do CBT to balance out the tapering of the pills? Xx 


I'm fine but mad and bitter.. First day back at work today. My boss bought me a chippy for lunch haha!! 
Back in Manchester tomorrow for repeat beta to check my level has gone back down to 0. 
Then I can get my follow up - may not arrange it for a couple of weeks - I'm still very angry xx


----------



## Northern

It's over.  Negative test and af has started this morning. 

Carrie, hope you get some clarity from your bloods today. X


----------



## Bettyville

so sorry Northern. Sending you lots of love xx


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## bippy11

Oh Northern, Im so so sorry. Was really hoping it would turn around for you    please look after yourselves and each other xxx


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## Carrie88

Oh northern I am so so gutted for you  
You're not in work today are you? 
Look after yourself, sending you such a big big hug, it's so crap xx


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## K jade

Ah northern I'm so sorry 
the crushing disappointment never gets easier
come of those nasty meds and have a glass of wine
xx


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## Angedelight

Northern I'm gutted it didn't around for you.
Take time to do whatever you need to do.
You know everyone on this thread knows exactly how you feel. 
Sending lots of love x


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## bippy11

Morning ladies, 

Northern thinking of you and sending big hugs   xxx

MrsC I love your xmas bauble! Sometimes we have to roll with the bitterness!   Glad you have a plan together and that DH has agreed it is not last go - it would be so much pressure and if there's one thing you don't need in all this, it's extra pressure! Your acting skills are amazing! Do you have anyone else you talk to about all this or just DH? I worry a bit that it's too hard on you if you always put on a brave face.. 

Carrie did you get your final result and have you got your follow up? Im glad Ive been able to help with suggesting a new approach to thickening the lining, let me know if you would like me to send more details of the protocol I followed, although I imagine Dr G would work out one specifically for you. I think a chippy is a northern thing - is it a roll with chips in?? Nice of your boss  

Kjade sorry to hear you are struggling coming off your pills, hope it gets a bit easier. If you explain to DH then hopefully it will help him understand. You are in this together x 

Betty, I paid around that for my latest go. It was 2 X egg collections with PGS and all drugs, scans, bloodtests and intralipids etc included. It's a lot, I think we've spent around £40K in total over the years. Maddness.  But there's nothing I want more, so it's where Ill spend my money. 

We had another blood scare last night. I had already got really down in the day because I felt like my symptons had gone. They seem to have come back a bit, but to be honest Im going mad and I don't know what's real and what's in my head anymore   been awake since 3 in the night, which has been happening every night for the past few weeks. we've got a bloodtest tomorrow, really nervous, but at least that should give some indication. Im just trying to cling on to hope as I can't deal with the alternative.


----------



## K jade

Bippy please keep  clinging  to hope
if I had a penny for every time I see women who has this id be very rich by now. 
I hope tomorrow brings you some reassurance . I do think bleeding is more common than not from what i see on here. 

northern how you  feeling today?

carrie how are  you?

commiserations all round ladies


----------



## Northern

Thanks ladies for your support and messages yesterday.  I'm holding up I guess, I feel sad but not surprised, so there's none of the shock that usually goes with a bfn - I was already certain it hadn't worked from the moment I woke up at 3am a week ago and thought, "they've gone."  I guess I don't really know how to feel as I'd already seen this coming. 

Had a bit of a breakdown on dp the last 2 nights but have been keeping up the facade at work remarkably well.  Fortunately today the office has closed early as all the roads are flooding so we've been sent home.  Have a meeting tomorrow but then planning to 'work' from home (ie mope) on Friday, to give myself a bit of time to hibernate. 

That's all I feel I want to do, just hibernate. 

But as you all know we can't help ourselves mentally planning the next steps and figuring out what to do next, so my little head is already several months on and thinking about what's next.  It does mean a big change, as we've now used all of dp's sperm so that last little hope that I could have a little one that is really half of him is gone.  But we know it will be part of him in many other ways.  He's being pretty good about it which is a big help. 

Bippy, I'm sorry for your extra worry and really hope it's just normal early bleeding. Try to keep calm and and look after yourself until tomorrow, glad you've got blood test sorted and hopefully it will put your mind at rest and everything will be ok. 

Carrie, did you get your second bloods back yesterday? 

Feeling very thankful for our lovely thread at the moment, I'm struggling to be around anything that's too optimistic, the support here from others who've been through this crap is so wonderful, though I'm sorry you've all had to go through it too! 

Big hugs ladies   xxx


----------



## bippy11

Northern I completely understand, the only way I get through negatives is to start planning and putting steps in place for whats next. Im so sorry that its the last of your DPs sperm. You can't get more? What are you thinking next? Big hugs  

Im amazed you've been to work, glad you've got a day at home on Friday. Ive turned in to a hibernating hermit!


----------



## K jade

Northern I think we all know the feeling of planning our next move soon after a failed cycle. Many say you must grieve and take time out. But I'm not sure they have been through numerous failed cycles  as we all have, because  that's A LOT of time spent grieving for the same thing over and over again. The need to keep repeating the process wears off. although of course it chips away at you every time. but us ladies are made of stronger stuff. Planning the next one always helps me. Christmas is coming up which is always such a hard time for people like us, however like you I'm also seeing it as a chance to hibernate, have time off work, eat nice food and generally rest so that I feel ready to attack another year. 

Bippy  hope you get good news today x


----------



## bippy11

Morning ladies, 

Just wanted to let you know that we had good news last night and HCG is high. Phew, such a relief   Kjade I should give you a penny so you can start building your riches  

I am thinking of you all and will keep checking in with you, but I won't continue to give you updates on me as I know that can be difficult. You are all amazing and thank you for all the support and kindness you have given me and each other, I am so glad I found you on this thread even if only quite recently, it has helped me so much over the last few weeks. xxx  

MrsC, Carrie and Northern, sending you strength for working out next steps and finding a way forward, you will get there   xxx


----------



## Northern

Ah Bippy that’s such good news I’m so relieved  for you. Hope everything goes like a dream from here and you have no more cause to worry, hope the time goes quick to your scan and you can go and see your little one   So glad we’ve had at least one success on this board - there is hope for us all! 

Lots of love and luck to you and do pop back to keep us updated further down the line...maybe one day we will need a Repeated Failures Graduates Thread!!
Xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Hello lovely ladies!! 
Sorry I've been a bit awol this week - just been busy and then we've been going to bed pretty early.

Bippy - yes it came back as 0. Follow up with dr Gorgy is next Friday. Aww that's so kind thank you. Once I've seen dr Gorgy I'll let you know what he reccomends as the next step and can compare it with yours? A chippy? Fish and chips? I did have a chip batch with curry sauce, mmmm!! So glad your bloods came in high and I hope that makes you worry a little less  wishing you all the best for the future xx

Mrs C - how are you holding up? Xx

Kjade - any plan from gdoc yet regarding your test results? Xx

Northern - I think as one door closes, another door opens which I think is the case with your husbands sperm. You know you gave it your very all - I'm glad you're able to plan the next steps as well - it helps.

I called an adoption agency this week. They ask people to wait 6 months before applying if you've had ivf but because of our particular difficult journey they're reccomending a year.
If we do decide to go down this route we'd take the year off and re decorate our house, new bathroom and kitchen etc and spend our money going away and enjoying ourselves.

I'm still going to take guidance from dr Gorgy though xx


----------



## Angedelight

Hi ladies

Carrie I know that one, sleep your way through it! Although I even dream about infertility-do you?!. Glad you're exploring alll your options. A year is a long wait for adoption but I can totally understand why they do that after difficult journeys and a year out doing what you said would be a good break. I really hope your follow up brings some answers and that from that and all your other thoughts you can come up with a plan. How are you doing in yourself?.

KJade- great you've got an appointment date. Look forward to hearing what he suggests. How's the tapering the pills going?. Hope it's all levelled off a bit and you're feeling a bit better.

Bippy- great news!! All the best for the next few months, pop back and keep us updated.

Northern- how are you doing? Well done with work and the facade. The good old acting skills! Same as you with hibernating. Wake me up after Christmas please! Do not have the enthusiasm or energy for that at all. I'm so sorry that that's the last of your DPs sperm, amazing that he's open to other options- when that baby comes and you two are the only ones that are caring for them, it won't matter how they got here. Yes, optimistic, happy people can do one as far as I'm concerned!. 

Bettyville- hope you've had chance to think about next steps and costs. Like KJade said CGRW are lovely. The consultant, Amanda who I've seen a lot of is a lovely warm person who cares so much about her patients. And they are much cheaper. Not sure on PGS though. But equally if you're happy with your clinic and it's close then that's the main thing. I find the money becomes irrelevant after a while! If you'd told me I'd spend over £20k on this I'd have laughed myself sick!!.

Nat and everyone else hope you're all ok.

Well DH is finally home after 3 weeks of training and I've gone into meltdown mode. Work has been really stressful and made me anxious which is very unusual and therefore unsettling.  I don't want to go back and see my same counsellor as I think she must think 'for FFS just give up!'. I think I need more than just counselling anyway. I'm back at the gym which really helps and getting out walking loads. I'm really avoidant of my friends and feeling quite anxious about the social stuff coming up. Work friends who know none of this are fine as that's an extension of work but my proper friends know about this as I've texted and explained my absence. I'm sure they all think just give up as well!. I'm so weird how I compartmentalise people and situations but whatever works. DH is great and I know this will pass but it's rubbish in the mean time.

Hope you're all having nice weekends.
X


----------



## Carrie88

Aww do you? I don't actually. I've had a couple of nightmares this week but not to do with infertility lol.
It is really long but I remember we took a year gap between transfer 3 and 4 and that didn't feel long so we kept busy.
I'm fine mainly. Sadness comes in waves but I'm generally ok. My bleed started on Friday and omg it was so so painful - work was really hard to get too. I had bad cramps for about 5 hours but now I think I've finished so another 2 day bleed hmm.

I'm glad DH is back but sorry you're feeling so anxious, it's an awful feeling.
Have you thought about a holiday somewhere? Just getting away for a bit? Xx


----------



## K jade

Bippy that's really great news about your hcg. looks like your getting there slowly but surely. please keep us posted 

Carrie well done on taking the plunge and calling up an adoption agency. I called a couple myself years back. the woman who picked up the phone was an old colleague of mine which was a bit awkward but she seems happy to hear from me and wrote me a note when she sent out the pack LOL. Anyway we shelved that plan and went with a donor instead. But now its looks like we might well revisit it in time. what did they say about the children that have to place? do they have many under  2's at present? 

Northern I really hope we will have that thread too before long, in fact I have a lot of faith we WILL

MrsC I'm actually feeling better and the withdrawals are starting to ease off. I also feel like some of my emotions have returned. SSRIs do have a tendency of making you feel quite numb but I guess that's the nature of the beast. well done on the exercise and making it to the gym. I know what you mean about friends. last week I told one of my closest friends that I have quit and have no plans to return to IVF, and that I feel I have moved on and want to peruse other goals in life. 
absolute rubbish and a total lie , but I really cant stand talking about it with her anymore. She tries to be helpful and supportive but her responses come out as anything but, and I've realised that talking about it with her irritates and frustrates me. it feels easier to just wipe the slate clean  . What more can she say to 'I'm quitting'. It feels freeing not to have to discuss it anymore.
I too get anxious about attending social events , and of course with xmas round the corner there are many coming up.
I've developed prego-announcement-phobia. where you not only fear the pregnancy announcement of a friend or relative, but also someone mentioning in passing the pregnancy of their neighbours, aunties, cousins cat. 

AFM I spent the weekend with my nephew who insisted on watching star wars at the nearby cinema. I've watched a few of these films over the years , usually with my nephew, and am still no further forward in understanding what star wars is actually about. 
I'm back at DrGs on Thursday and am feeling anxious about what he suggests. I think humira, clexane, high dose folic acid, neupogen (?), and possibly scratch will be the right thing. Intralipids after BFP if I'm lucky enough to get one. 
but DrG may well have other ideas......


----------



## bippy11

Morning lovely pincushion princesses. 

Just popping back on here as I wanted to let you know Carrie that Fertility Network UK are hosting a skype chat on adoption this Thursday at 7.30 with guest speaker Anya Sizer. We've listened in on quite a few of their skype chats, incl one on adoption, which we found informative as we didn't know much about it. The three main areas they will discuss are: Moving on from treatment, The adoption process, Building a support structure. At the end there is usually Q&A. I think you can just contact Fertility Network UK if you would like to join. Once you are on the mailing list for it, they will email you with the topics before each call, usually monthly I think, to see if you want to join the call. 

I hope you get a good plan from Dr G next Friday. xxx

Mrs C, KJade, Northern and everyone else, sending lots of love xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Oh wow haha what are the chances? 
The social worker was lovely and made me feel at such ease. I didn't ask that actually because she asked me to wait a year - I thought I'll ask that when I come to revisit it. 
I'm starting to feel excited about starting the adoption route and not ivf and transferring anymore which I think says it all.

That sounds like a lovely weekend, im the same with you about Star Wars haha!! Good luck with Dr G on Thursday, I hope he's in a good mood lol. I also think he may suggest a protocol like that....xx

Bippy - that's handy to know thank you. You know you said you looked into it etc. What made you decide to carry on? Xx


----------



## bippy11

we decided to start finding out about it before we were ready to finish with treatment. Just so that we could start informing ourselves and mull it over so that if the time came it wouldn't seem like such a big scary unknown. I think it's one of those decisions that take a while to sink in and figure out how you feel about it, so we just wanted to start the process. Id recommend jumping on a call, you can just mute it and listen in if you don't feel like saying anything. Good luck with your decision hun xxx


----------



## Northern

Kjade thanks that's really interesting about the skype call, I didn't know they did that.  Carrie - weirdly dp and I have talked over the weekend and are also now thinking of moving on to adoption.  Although we do have frozen donor embies still in Prague, we feel that adoption is more of an 'equal' option and something we both feel comfortable with. 
Doubt it will be an easy process for us and we may get knocked back due to complications with dp's kids and ex, but we feel more confident about it than the last time we considered it. 

I'm going to ring our local authority tomorrow - they had an open evening a few weeks ago but it was while we were away in Prague for treatment! 

Carrie glad the social worker was so nice, that's encouraging. 
Xxx


----------



## Bettyville

Hey ladies,
We've also looked into adoption - for us it's a little more complex as we'd have to go to India but we have listened in to Fertility Network / their adoption skype chat. Also worth checking with your local authority - we went to an open evening where they spent 1.5 hours talking about the process and then 30 mins with a lady who's adopted. It was really interesting and well worth it - we concluded that we weren't ready at that point (this was during the summer), to be honest, the LA ended putting us off - they kept going on about how hard the process is & this really ended up scaring us!

Anyway, after the meeting they told us that we'd be better off going to India to adopt and that process is entirely different. However, defo go along to your LA talk, i think it's worth it to know what the process is / how long it all takes.

Betty x


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all

Carrie your comment about a holiday prompted me to sort one out. One that's not a bloody trip to Athens for an IVF holiday!. Going to go away in Feb for 10 days somewhere exotic. Think I can hold out that long. That's amazing that you feel so positive about adoption. Be interesting to see what Dr G says. Good luck for Friday.

KJade good luck tomorrow. Interested to see what he says. I totally get the preggo anouncement phobia. That's why I've honed my pregdar and I literally risk assess every social event as to whether there's the potential for one!!. My fears have an actual basis to them as last year at my absolute lowest ebb I'd dragged myself out to a best friends birthday lunch. We had been through a few rounds of IVF together. Got upset about pregnancy announcements together, how hard they were, gone to a baby shower together and both had meltdowns after. Her cycle worked, mine didn't. Obviously the usual pleased for them sad for us feelings. The consultant dropped the donor bombshell at this time and I was teetering on the edge. 

I'd asked her if she was going to announce it at the lunch. She was vague. I assumed she wouldn't as she hadn't said she would. She did announce it, it felt like I'd been punched in the stomach, I don't know how I kept it together. I couldn't believe she didn't tell me she was going to, if I'd known I could have mentally prepared or not gone. I know it's not about me and of course she'd want to share and celebrate that after what they went through but the fact that someone who knew what that felt like having been through it and then did that with no prior warning hurt so much. I'm still scarred from it!.. 

Northern how did you get on with the LA? Hope you're ok.

Hi Betty and everyone else, hope you're all fine.

I had the mother of all meltdowns at the weekend, to the point DH said I needed to go to the Drs if I didn't sort it out. We talked about what we can do and decided on a holiday and also a weekend in London in a couple of weeks. Feel much better for having things to look forward to that aren't fertility related. 

I'm still on the social media ban, feeling better for it. We also booked a telephone follow up with the clinic, I did write a lengthy email and they said do the same!. Er, no. It's not working! Be interesting to have a proper chat and see what they say. I def want the biopsy done but can't till the NY.

Carrie and KJade- do you have to have the second one if the first comes back normal??.

Anyway, literally can't believe it's nearly the 1st December. I have no festive cheer but I'm sure alcohol can magic some up when required.

X


----------



## K jade

MrsC funnily enough I am meeting a friend for lunch on Friday and I have a sixth sense I'm going to have a pregnancy announcement landed on me. Maybe not hers but perhaps a mutual friends...just get this feeling.. I will do my best to keep calm and collected if my intuition serves me right, and try my best to shrug it off (Yeh right!)  Sorry you have been feeling so down, although Im not surprised after all you've been through. But that's great to hear you've made some plans. Ivf  and non ivf. Don't beat yourself up about meltdowns you are perfectly entitled to them. u will pick yourself up and keep moving forwards 
Regarding the biopsy because mine was normal I wasn't offered a second. I believe only if its high will they offer you a second. 


Well I'm off to DrG tomorrow to discover my fate. Im hoping for no nasty surprises in that what he recommends is not vastly different to what I think I need. I feel I have done enough reading and research to identify what drugs will help me, but we'll see! 
Its one year tomorrow since my first ivf bfn. So that's  bitter sweet. Well more bitter really. Let's hope tomorrow is more positive. 
Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade - good luck with GDoc today let us know what he says. How ironic it's your bfn anniversary as well  I remember mine last year. It made me sad. Hopefully next year though you'll have a bfp to celebrate xx

MrsC - good for you booking a holiday. Where you thinking? I can't believe your friend did that to you last year!! Are you still good friends with her? 
I didn't have my NKC biopsy done at Coventry so even though it was high last year I didn't repeat it. 
Sorry to hear about your breakdowns  but glad you've got some things to look forward too.
Maybe you'll feel better once you've had your follow up as well? It may give you closure? 

Northern - how did you get on calling your LA? I'm scared they'll reject us cos of my husbands genetic condition. He's fine and you'd never really know he had it but if you google neurofibromotosis it's horrible. They'll probably think he's gonna die young or become horribly disfigured.

Betty - I've heard it's tough but not as tough as the process of ivf. I think they try put people off so they can make sure you defo want it. Would you go to India to adopt? Xx


I'm going to write my questions for GDoc tonight and post them on here later. If anyone has anything to add please can you let me know  thank you ladies xx


----------



## Angedelight

KJade- I find it's fine for announcements if I know. It's the surprise ones I can't cope with. So at least you're going thinking that!. Good luck today.

Carrie- Sri Lanka. I don't feel close to any of my friends as I barely see them!. I used to have such a big group of friends- I still have them but I don't feel very involved with them. We've also done the last two rounds in secret but then I've said about it afterwards so in some ways I've created that distance as they probably find it hard I don't confide in them. That's what DH  said about the follow up. It's a week today.

Has anyone been following the Hannah Vaughn Jones IVF diaries? She just got her first BFP on round 7!!! Technically I've just done round 6 as the first one got cancelled so I've done 6 complete rounds. There's still hope!!!.


----------



## bippy11

Mrs C there's still hope! I just watched it and predictably now crying.. my husband always says that if we keep rolling the dice there is still a chance. Please don't worry about your meltdown, I think they are necessary once in a while and we all have them. Sometimes it has to come out! Great that you're booking a holiday and have non-ivf things to look forward to. It's so important. Hope the follow up next week will also help. x

I can't believe your friend, that really is horrible. I have had a similar thing happen. It is with a family member, otherwise I would have cut her out, but I can't really, so will be civil, but I don't think our relationship will ever recover from it. I try my best to focus on the people who have been kind and supportive and feel lucky that I have them (not always successfully, I still feel bitter about those who have not been kind). My circle of friends has definitely shrunk over the years of treatment. Partly due to my increasingly hermit-like lifestyle..

Kjade, hope you have a positive appointment today and come away with a plan that you feel happy with. Look forward to hearing how it goes xxx

Carrie and Northern, hope you find the skype call useful this evening if you are joining it. x


----------



## K jade

Sat waiting for my train. Its delayed by 5 mins so hope that 5 mins doesn't turn into half hour. 
Its absolutely freezing. Dh had to do a sample this morning as gdoc wants to check if we could be passing some dormant infection back and forth. So I've got that wrapped up on my handbag lol. Let's hope it doesn't freeze! Need to drop it in to TDL before my appointment 
Got my infertility portfolio with me. I changed to a purple file as it fits in my bag better. 

MrsC Sri Lanka sounds lovely. I would love to go there. My mother was born there. She's never been back, I don't think she will, but I hope to go one day. Oh thats amazing about that lady who got bfp. A warrior . I think she was on radio 4 the other night come to think of it. 

Bippy hope alls well with u

Trains here! 
xx

Carrie good idea. I'm sure we'll be able to add some ideas for u


----------



## Northern

> I've honed my pregdar and I literally risk assess every social event as to whether there's the potential for one!!


Mrs-C I literally laughed out loud at this! So true!! I'm pretty good at it too. I'm stupidly dreading our staff Christmas party as our colleague who had her baby in June is planning to come - she announced her pregnancy at the beginning of our 4th cycle in Jan and it was the hardest thing I've ever done to go through another failure alongside her growing bump. I'm sorry your friend did that to you - you would like to think people who have been through at least some of it would be more sensitive. I do think people tune themselves out to some degree but from a close friend you would expect better. Well done with booking the holiday! Honestly it will really help, just having nice things planned in to look forward to makes such a difference.

Kjade glad your train wasn't too late! Good luck with GDoc today, haha hope the sample doesn't freeze on the way! It's pretty hilarious isn't it, how conspicuous you feel carrying that around in a bag hahaha 

So I called our local authority yesterday and I'm really glad I did. They need us to wait 6 months (she started by saying a year, but actually we can start the process after 6 months which is a bit confusing, not too bad though) but with Christmas etc to get through first then I'm sure it will fly by. She went through the expression of interest form with me which was useful, and has saved that on their system so it's a bit quicker when/if we come back to it. I asked her and she said she couldn't see any reason to not recommend us for an initial visit. We would have to talk to dp's kids and get them on board - particularly the eldest as he's 18 and lives with us - that could be the only major sticking point but we'll just have to do some groundwork and broach the subject at the right time. It could go either way but I think he's in a better place to deal with it now than he was in the last few years. She also said they always need adopters, and at the moment are recruiting for 0-2 years, which they're not always. Obvs that may not be the case in May but it gives us hope. She didn't flinch when I said we'd want as young as possible, and said it's better to be honest and say exactly what we would want, than go through the process just to tick the boxes and then end up more disappointed.

So we're back in limbo a bit but it's definitely feeling like the better way forward for us. There would be hurdles but we feel more confident about dealing with them than we do about the hurdles we'd have with donor sperm. I'm actually feeling quite at peace  
Fingers crossed things will start to come together and we can move on and something will actually happen, surely it has to happen sometime!

Xxx


----------



## Northern

Great. Said colleague is now _bringing_ her baby to the Christmas party. I no longer want to go. Is it just me or is that not really the done thing? Am I too sensitive? Maybe if we're all bringing things, should I bring the cat??!

Sorry, bitter and *****y moment. I'll be nice now


----------



## K jade

Er no Northern. What the hell? Why? Its definitely not appropriate, I've never heard of anyone doing that.  I take it your x mas party is not being held in a soft play centre? 
Usually they are in pubs, restaurants etc.  ie not child friendly places, why would u bring one let alone a baby?  
Great news on your phone call. Social worker sounds like shes keen to already complete your ROI form over the phone 
Loads of people adopt with step kids wouldn't worry about that. 

Well I'm out now 
Contrary to my predictions Dr gorgy doesnt beleive I need most of the drugs I envisaged. Neupogen not necessary as the KIR I'm missing is not that important 
He doesn't think my mthfr is much of an issue. 
My nk cells aren't that bad and only have a slight raised killing power. But biopsy NK  normal so no intralipids etc. 
he thinks my PA1 gene mutation could be linked to insulin resistance so need to do fasting glucose test. Metformin if positive. Clexane during cycle. 
He says main issues is my Tnfa so I've got my humira prescription which I'll start immediately 
Just not sure on this mthfr thing 
Surley I should use mthfr friendly folic acid...


----------



## Northern

Thank you kjade!  I feel such a horrible person for being bothered by it, but really, I'm dreading it now and been really down since I found this out. She's bringing it cos the baby won't take a bottle so she can't leave it.  But it'll just turn the whole do into a baby show, I really haven't the energy for it at the minute    Glad it's not just me finding it weird though! 

Ha I have no idea what mthfr even is but every time I see it written down my head fills in the vowels very inappropriately!!!!  

He sounds such a thorough bloke, I would be inclined to trust his thinking and give it all a try, think you're in the best hands now.  Remind me when are you thinking of cycling again, early next year? 
Xx


----------



## K jade

Think in her situation I'd just give the party a miss then. I defo wouldn't be getting my boobs out in front of colleagues even if it was in the context of breastfeeding (well not sober anyway! ) 

Yeh I actually came outta that appointment thinking did I just see Dr G or was it his  polar opposite 'less is more' twin lol x


----------



## bippy11

KJade that sounds like a positive appointment. You are so well informed, Im sure all your research and knowledge has helped you get the most out of the appointment and made him consider all the aspects of your issues and treatment. How do you feel about the plan? 

Hahaha Northern - I don't know what it is either, but my mind has been doing the same with mthfr!!     

Northern, I wouldn't imagine she will stay long with a little baby, surely.. Maybe it's just popping in to say hello to everyone and show the baby.. perhaps you could arrive a bit later and hopefully it would be gone by then.. Also I am sure some people will get bored of cooing over a baby and turn their attention to other things such as drinking and chatting, so you could join them. What kind of a venue will it be? 

So glad to hear you have had a positive response from your LA and are feeling at peace with it. I know there are challenges and hurdles, but it's also quite exciting for you!   xxx


----------



## Carrie88

MrsC - oh lovely that will be nice and hot  I know what you mean about your friends, I'm starting to feel that with some and I'm not even 30 yet. I have heard about her yes. How amazing her 7th one working!! She does give us ladies hope xx 

Northern - I'm glad you called them and they were lovely. She sounds proactive and honest. It's  nice to know you have options - I also feel at peace. It's strange isn't it. 6 months will fly by as well. Why on earth is that colleague coming to your Xmas party? Wouldn't it make sense for her to just not go to It? That's really inconsiderate for everyone!! Xx

Kjade - hope you didn't freeze too bad. I'll be honest I'm surprised at gdocs reccomendations!! How are you feeling about it all? You should defo be using folate if you have MTHFR xx


----------



## Carrie88

Here are my questions for Gdoc: 



1. 5 failed transfers under 30. Is it worth carrying on? 

2. My lining wasn't triple striped but has been on my other transfers and must of been for the era to be receptive so why not on this one? 

3. Is it worth trying tamoxifen? Viagra? Low doses Stims to help build the lining? 

4. Natural transfer? 

5. My hysterscopy showed red patches they didn't know was inflammation or infection. Could that of causes a problem? 

6. When you re tested my cytokines I was still weaning down off steroids so they were probably low due to that. Is it worth re testing?

7. Beta was 6.8. Was this the trigger or the chemical? 

8. We've said no more lit so you've suggested ivig. How would this help?


----------



## K jade

cant think of anything off the top of my head to add to that. sounds like you have everything covered there. 
agree with all your points and questions
I would emphasise the point about low dose stims to help build lining
ALSO is it the case that you have only done FETs? I'm guessing  you must have done due to having pgd but forgive me if I'm wrong...?
therefore  you've never had a fresh transfer and only built lining on artificial oestrogen. this makes me wander what your lining would have been like had you done a fresh cycle, or if like you say do a natural FET. 

yeh i was surprised too. I've had a 3 hour coach journey to reflect and I guess what he's saying makes sense. regarding the mthfr I've since found out that Thorne or Pregna Plan  is best so going to buy one of these. It needs to be methylfolate not synthetic folic acid. finally worked out what that one means!

we'll see what comes back from the insulin resistance test. 
regarding metformin do I need to be on it for a certain time before cycling? do I take it throughout my cycle?
xx


----------



## Carrie88

K jade said:


> cant think of anything off the top of my head to add to that. sounds like you have everything covered there.
> agree with all your points and questions
> I would emphasise the point about low dose stims to help build lining
> ALSO is it the case that you have only done FETs? I'm guessing you must have done due to having pgd but forgive me if I'm wrong...?
> therefore you've never had a fresh transfer and only built lining on artificial oestrogen. this makes me wander what your lining would have been like had you done a fresh cycle, or if like you say do a natural FET.
> 
> yeh i was surprised too. I've had a 3 hour coach journey to reflect and I guess what he's saying makes sense. regarding the mthfr I've since found out that Thorne or Pregna Plan is best so going to buy one of these. It needs to be methylfolate not synthetic folic acid. finally worked out what that one means!
> 
> we'll see what comes back from the insulin resistance test.
> regarding metformin do I need to be on it for a certain time before cycling? do I take it throughout my cycle?
> xx


Thanks kjade. 
Nope never fresh. You can't with pgd cos the results take 2-3 weeks to come through.
Again though my bleed from this failed transfer was 2 days.

Dr Gorgy has put me on metformin 3x a day. I take it with every meal.

Glad you've managed to reflect. Do you know when you'll be starting again? Xx


----------



## K jade

hmmmmmmm that's really interesting....
Defo ask him about low stims to build lining. I have seen too many ladies on here with this issue. they just cannot process the synthetic oestrogen. 

I think it will be new year now for the actual ivf . if my tnfa comes down. fingers crossed it does.   xx


----------



## praying x

Hi all hope you dont mind me joining in. Feeling really low today another year soon ovet and still no baby. So a little about me I've had 6 failed cycles. 
1) ivf bleed before test date
2) icsi bleed before test date
3) icsi at argc prednisole ivig intralipids humera gestone steriods claxane aspirin - chemical pregnancy 
4) FGA all above plus antibiotics for hidden chlamydia nupogen LIT bfn
5) frozen cycle as above bfn
6) donor egg bfn

What to do next?


----------



## Carrie88

Oh praying I'm so sorry to read what you've gone through.

Sadly I don't have any suggestions as like me you've covered all bases with immune meds.
Have you had your follow up yet? 

Only thing you could add is pgs to the embryos? Xx


----------



## K jade

Praying so sorry for your rotten ivf journey  
Do u have tubal issues? Blocked or hydro tubes can leak fluid toxic to embryos that kills  everything in its path 
Lots of people advocate complete removal of faulty tubes but I know that's a daunting step x


----------



## Carrie88

K jade said:


> Praying so sorry for your rotten ivf journey
> Do u have tubal issues? Blocked or hydro tubes can leak fluid toxic to embryos that kills everything in its path
> Lots of people advocate complete removal of faulty tubes but I know that's a daunting step x


My tubes have never been checked ya know or for endo.
I asked the NHS For a lap to see and they told me there was no point xx


----------



## Carrie88

Dr Gorgy: I don't know what else we can try.

Yup those were his words.
The man who has the answers for so many people doesn't know what else we can try. 
FML. 
1. When I asked him is it worth it carrying on? He said I do think we should keep going.

2. No to viagra as neupogen is more powerful so is neupogen doesn't help my lining - viagra won't make much of a difference. 
3. The red patches Serum found during my hysto he said wouldn't of caused it to fail.

4. He said the result of 6.8 was definetly a chemical pregnancy and not the trigger.

5. My bleeds only last 2 days does that mean my lining is weak? He said not necessarily as your periods are light - it's just your body. 
6. He won't re test my NKC as he is happy with the results. I have persuaded him to retest my cytokines though.

7. Thyroid all ok - stay on the dose. 
8. Lining wasn't triple striped but doesn't mean it was on the era test as you can be receptive and get pregnant without the triple striped.

9. I can try a natural transfer if I want? But he said it's harder to monitor? 
When the worlds leading consultant doesn't know what else to add you know you're ****ed.


----------



## K jade

Oh hun how are you feeling after that then? what are your thoughts?

you must be utterly utterly  drained to the max. 

what I honestly think you probably need right now is a massive glass of wine
xxx


----------



## praying x

Thank you for your messages.

K Jade I have just had a lap and hysto done (My 4th hysto and 2nd lap- long story) 1 tube is blocked but defo no hydrosalpinx no endo no pid. The Dr said there was no need to clip of get rid of my tube ad his checked and there is no fluid he thinks the tube is blocked die to a previous infection but this will not effect outcomes. I defo trust his judgement he was very good.

Carrie88 - so sorry to read your journey too. I've had my follow ups but nothing conclusive to say why it hasn't worked. Like you Dr G has yield me to carry on as I still have a good AMH. I don't know if you did your whole cycle with him but I didn't find his monitoring very good. That was my worst cycle. I haven't done PGD yet but not sure if it is worth me doing this as I don't seem to get many embryos max 2 -3 day 5 blastocysts


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all

Carrie-not what you wanted to hear. And what a head f**k him saying it was a chemical pregnancy too. It sounds like you have more questions than answers at the moment and a lot of thinking to do. It's not long till your holiday and you can escape and think about all your options and start 2018 with a plan of action. Thinking of you. 

KJade-appointment sounds like it went well. Is Humira a tablet?. Sounds like everything else is under control. What % were your NK cells and what bit is the killing power? Want to look at mine again. How was your pregdar with your lunch?. 

Northern- that is totally inappropriate taking a baby to a Christmas party!. The one time it might be a tiny positive to not have children as you can get as smashed as you like and not worry about the next day and it's ruined by a baby being present!. Things like that are 'safe places'.  I'd be exactly the same so don't worry. Surely she won't stay long?. She might not even go at all by then. Sounds like you had very positive contact with the LA.

Bippy hope all is going well and as each day passes you feel a bit more confident.

Praying- so sorry for your journey.

I nearly had another meltdown when I remembered about Zika. Sri Lanka seems ok though. I went to a friends for a quick lunch, only there an hour and still managed to cry so think socialising is not a great idea at present and it's this week I have a dinner party, works Christmas party and a big brunch next weekend. Why can't it all do one?? Roll on January!!. Oh and DH was really keen last weekend to just put the last embryo back in ASAP. He just wants it all over with I think.

X


----------



## K jade

Well Fridays lunch meeting went well, no pregnancy announcements landed on me cause I text her beforehand explaining about my pregnancy announcement 'lock down' which she loved as she is also on 'engagement announcement lock down'. 
However irony of all irony I had the works Xmas do last night and my friend told me she's pregnant. Shes been trying 7 years and was under the same NHS clinic as me. We couldn't believe we hadn't bumped into one another over the years in the waiting room! 
Im wandering if this means the infertility curse that exists over my workplace has began to lift... 

MrsC humira is injection form.i must take one injection two weeks apart. Then retest 7-10 days later. The retest may fall over Xmas / new year which I don't want so need to time carefully. 
Don't worry about zika. Go for your trip and enjoy enjoy . Its government scare mongering If u ask me. More chance of being hit by a bus. My dh is the same. Can't wait to see the back of this process. Will we ever? Men make so much noise but generally they'll go along with whatever we want 

Praying sorry hun u seriously have been through the ringer. And you've clearly explored so many avenues. What does Dr G think? 

Carrie how r u hun? I hope you've managed to have some time to reflect. I know your at somewhat of a crossroads right now. You will find that path to your baby I'm sure of it


----------



## fifibell

hello ladies

Hope you don't mind me posting here. I've just had my 6th BFN Cycle and feeling really lost. We gave it everything this time had immune support pgd tested so they were perfect quality. but the beta came back 0 so there was no implantation at all.

just don't know what to think, is just a numbers game do I keep trying I'm 38 now so feel like I'm running out of time and options. 

just looking for some support from anyone who is in a similar position as i honestly don't know what to do next.

thanks so much


----------



## K jade

hi fifibell so sorry for everything you've been through.  
many of us on this thread have been through the same, multiple cycles, immunes, every test possible.... it absolutely sucks. 
what clinic are you with?
kjxx


----------



## K jade

hi ladies does anyone know anything about Insulin resistance and fasting glucose test results?

Im struggling to interpreter mine from DrG as I cannot trust the reference ranges and the reference ranges on dr Google are difference again.
Plus normal life reference ranges are completely different to fertility . 

my fasting blood glucose is 4.8 mmol/L
My insulin resistance is 5.3 mIU/L


----------



## Angedelight

KJade- fasting blood is definitely fine. Not sure on other one.

Fifibell- same as you- 38, just had 6th transfer fail. We've really pushed the boat out and done combinations of everything with no success. Sorry you find yourself here.

Sending love to everyone else.

X


----------



## K jade

I had to bite the bullet in the end and have a telephone appointment with DrG. I didn't want to risk taking the humira only to find out that I should also have been on metformin for 3 months then the affects of the humira had warn off and its wasted
as it happens all is fine. so that was THE most expensive phone call of my life.  

hope everyone's OK , cant wait for this Christmas malarkey to be over. really starting to resent the amount we have to spend on presents for family when we have our own costs to be prioritising. 
My own sister actually has the decency to tell me not to buy her anything , as we buy  for her children. But DPs sister has never made this clear and will happily accept a present for herself, her DH and her 2 boys. well not this year! 
I have my immune drug habit to fund so its a scented candle for you and a selection box for your kids love!
xx


----------



## Angedelight

Oh KJade how annoying but at least you now know!!
So you don't need metformin?. Any side affects from the Humira yet?
I cancelled my phone follow up with Penny as I was hungover 🙈 Think I'll leave it to the NY now. 
Feel the same as you about Christmas but making the best of it and going out etc. It'll all be over soon and then can go back to usual hibernating!!. 
We booked our flights to Sri Lanka, thank god we wanted to go there anyway, it's literally the only place without Zika!.
Hope everyone else is doing ok 
Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Hello ladies!! 

Sorry I've not been online. After our follow up we went away for a weekend with marks friends Friday - Monday. 
Then on Monday my parents came and stayed till Wednesday so I've been busy. 

If anyone follows my insta they'll know this but marks dad had an accident yesterday. He fell down the stairs which has resulted in a non survivable catatrosphic brain injury. 

He's brain dead and is being kept alive by machines. 
The hospital will be performing legal test requirements to prove he's brain dead and then his machine will be switched off.

My husband is 32 and is an orphan. 
His only relatives are his auntie who lives in Spain and arrived here 3 hours ago and his cousin in South Africa whose on a plane now. 

We have to clear out his parents house, do wills, crap we've never done before xx


----------



## mattysmrs

Carrie, I saw your insta post and my heart goes out to you both. Such a sad time especially at this time of year too. Thinking of you and Mark xx


----------



## Carrie88

Thank you.

It's just not sunk in yet - I'm in complete shock xx


----------



## Northern

Oh gosh Carrie I’m so sorry, absolutely no words but this is heartbreaking. Sending love and strength to you both. Deal with things one minute at a time. Xxx


----------



## K jade

Oh carrie I'm so sorry. This is utterly heartbreaking for u and dh. I can't imagine the pain and sadness of this situation  
Sending u love and strength xx


----------



## bippy11

Carrie Im so so sorry. Poor you and Mark. You are his family and you will help each other through this. Sending you strength and love at such a difficult time xxx


----------



## Bettyville

Hi Carrie,
I am so so so sorry to hear this terrible & such heartbreaking news. Sending you so much love right now xxx

Betty x


----------



## Angedelight

Carrie
My heart goes out to you and Mark. What an absolutely dreadful thing to happen and for you both to have to go through this. Life really is very unfair at times.
Sending lots of love 
X


----------



## praying x

Carrie so sorry to hear your news

Kjade I remember how annoying it was to pay dr g for a 1 min conversation. I think it's unfair that you jave to pay each time.

Fifibell I can imagine how you feel I've also had 6 ivf failures. It soo Heart breaking. 

Mrs c when you off to Sri Lanka?


----------



## K jade

Sorry for the rant but the pampers Christmas advert seriously what IS the need !?
I hate seeing images of inside maternity wards it's so awful for so many people for a variety of reasons  not just infertility .
Yet the media love to ram it down us for some reason 
Mega bitter moan I know but I'm not even sorry


----------



## bethannora

Ladies can I join you please? 7 failed cycles behind us (5 fresh & 2 FETs)...and feel like I need support and understanding from others like me. We are hoping to start cycle number 8 soon. We are very lucky that we still have 7 frosties from my DW's egg collections. The first 4 cycles were using my eggs and we didn't do very well with mine at all - they aren't the best quality. We have thrown everything at our cycles - scratch, acupuncture, embryo scope, embryo glue, cervical dilation, sedation for transfer, clexane, prednisolone, doxycycline, lubion....the list goes on.

Carrie - I am so sorry to read your news. I lost my Dad a few years ago - he was in a coma and we too, as a family, had to turn off his life support. I wouldn't wish it on anyone and I am so very sorry Mark & you are going through it too. There's nothing I can say to make this time any easier, but know there are many people thinking about you all x


----------



## Bettyville

Hi Carrie,
How are you doing? Thinking of you lots over the last few days - i know exactly what it's like to be in this situation. I've lost both my parents (by age of 2, my father passed away in 2009, 18 days before my wedding but he was in ITU, we had to turn off the life support as his lungs had failed and it was basically the ventilator keeping him alive. I will never get over it as my brother and I were forced into the decision by Drs.

If you ever need any support, pls feel free to DM me - sending you love xxx


----------



## K jade

Bethanora welcome  .I've read some of your diary belore.have been through the MILL . Us multi cyclers here know the pain. Lots of lovely support here though. 

Betty that's so sad to lose your parents at such a young age  .I feel so grateful mine areally both alive although they are getting on. It's heartbreaking when they start to get older and u see their health begin to decline x


----------



## fifibell

Carrie my condolences to you such a sad time.
Bethannora I remember your name from the December 2 week thread sorry things didn't work out for you. It's great you have some frosties.

I probably won't cycle again till March or April and will need to be a fresh cycle. But not really thinking about it too much at the minute. Christmas will be very quite this year!


----------



## Carley

Hello ladies

I hope you don’t mind me joining and I hope I’m in the right place 🤔

I’ve just had my 6th failed donor embryo ivf and feeling a bit lost not sure what to do next... thinking about ERA but finances are so tight!

Look forward to hearing from you all 

Carley x


----------



## K jade

Hi carley,  so sorry for your bfns  .welcome to the thread .hopefully you'll get some answers . It's such a rotten old journey isn't it
Have u clinic given u any steer as to where they think things might be going wrong? 

Hope everyone's OK. I know a lot of u are having some time out.I've done my first humira shot and going to do my next boxing day of all days. Sending u all my love and prayers xx


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all

Welcome Bethanora & Carley. You're in the right place with others who get it.

Kjade- I'm managing to avoid too much Christmas exposure, anything we watch on TV is usually pre recorded or a box set so no adverts!. The pampers one sounds awful.

We haven't bothered putting the Christmas decorations up. Well, we just got a little potted tree that sits on the dining table with a load of fairy lights and has just my lovely new bauble which says 'Merry F**cking Christmas' on it which makes me smile everytime I see it. I've done most of the shopping online- like you we have to buy for nieces and nephews and then as DH's family seems to breed without any issue (apart from him 😂)  we then have to buy for their children too. Absolutely bah humbug this year!. 

Having said that we went to London this weekend just gone to see a show which was really nice and am now just focusing on our holiday and planning and booking bits for that. Roll on January 2nd and back to normality!!. And being able to hibernate again. 

I hope everyone is doing ok. We've all had a pretty crap run up to this Christmas. The way Christmas is portrayed and the expectations around it puts a lot of pressure on people- the reality for the majority of people is far different. I'm trying to enjoy the time spent with friends and family and trying to not think about all of this too much.

On another note I want the coventry biopsy done in the NY. I've had all the info and was going to call them as I'd need to go the first week after NY. The only thing is how do you monitor ovulation?. Back in the old days when I thought perhaps we just weren't having sex at the right time I used a clear blue monitor but if I remember rightly it was a right faff as it had to be the same time each day? I work shifts now so that's no good. I can't be carting it to work!. Coventry said that's what most people use. What about the cheaply wee sticks? Any help/advice appreciated.

Sending lots of love 
X


----------



## K jade

mrsC haha I love the sound of your xmas tree ! I tried getting our tree out but it had turned yellow (used to be white) so DH threw it away. I ended up draping the fairy lights around the big vase of wicker flowers. but then the whole thing  kept falling over. then when we eventually did get it to stay standing, the lights blew! so that's that for xmas decs. we tried.

as for presents everyone's got a cook book from The Works. yeh buying for peoples kiddies kinda annoys me tbh. I really only like buying for my own  niece and nephew. cousins kids who i see once every 5 yrs.    pleeeeeease!

What show did you see? we saw Miss Saigon as its at the millennium centre at the moment, it was amazing, would highly recommend it. 

as for the quenby biopsy i used cheapish ov sticks think that's fine xx


----------



## Angedelight

KJade, check out Banter Cards range of Christmas baubles, they're made for people like us who aren't feeling Christmas!. As me and DH say every year, hopefully this will be our last barren Christmas and next year will all be about celebrations and new traditions. If not, we're going away!. So annoying that Boxing Day you have no escape and have to 💉💉 When do you think you'll be doing another round?. 

We saw Pete Tong & The Heritage Orchestra at the 02. So it was very uplifting, no children anywhere near it and was brilliant.

With the ov sticks do you just use them once a day? I could do morning and night. I'm sure that monitor said not to use first wee?. 

X

PS: I'm actually ill at the moment and have been for the last week, sore throat, cold etc. So annoying, I thought my pathologically high NK cells would have seen any lurgy right off!


----------



## K jade

yeh I just use them once a day . I think u are supposed to do them early afternoon yes. but the cheapy ones are very discreet and fit in your handbag. I start a week after AF . then wait for the line to get darker. look at me sounding like I know what I'm talking about!  
I've literally used them once for the purpose of this biopsy.

OMG I know its so annoying. my high tnfa also doesn't stop me getting bugs so worst of both worlds really

all being well I should start Down regging on Januarys AF..... IF my TNFA has come down!
lets hope so as my DH will have a heart attack at another £800 for second go of humira. he's moaned enough this time round. 


does anyone know:
1) how long a tnfa re-test takes to come back?
2) how long down regging is for? I know absolutely nothing about DR as never done long protocol before.


----------



## Carley

Ladies have any of you had the ERA test? What are your thoughts on it?

X


----------



## K jade

hi carley
I do think its useful for some ladies but my issues with it are:
its very overpriced
I definitely wouldn't bother with it if I'd done a mixture of FETs , fresh cycles, day 5 transfers, and day 3 transfers. plus also tried naturally as well or done IUI.  In all those variations I would have thought you'd hit your implantation window at SOME point. 
if your original diagnosis  was unexplained infertility  then I also wouldn't bother with it. As (I don't think) the risk of missing your implantation window would apply when your trying naturally as your body's natural rhythm is taking control not the drugs. therefore  the reason for pregnancy not happening must be down to  something else. 

if you have no chance of natural conception and have only even done day 5 transfers then possibly might be worth it?  a lady on here Carrie88 did it. she cannot try naturally plus has only ever done day 5 medicated FETs. therefore ERA was a  useful thing to do. hers came back receptive if I'm right?


not sure if im making any sense or just talking rubbish but those are my thoughts xx
xx


----------



## Carley

K Hade - Yes that makes sense thank you!

I tried naturally years ago for about 4 years and nothing then used my own eggs once (day 3 transfer then had to have my tubes and an ovary removed so my last 5 attempts have been 1 fresh 5 day transfer and 4 frozen 5 day transfers! I do think it’s very over priced but I just feel I need some answers on why it’s not working! 

Carley


----------



## bethannora

If price is a big issue (which it is for lots of us who have had lots of cycles, and paid loads already) then it's also worthwhile remembering you have to keep repeating the test until you find your implantation window. So say your first test came back non-receptive, but indicated it was too late, you would then need to pay for the test in its entirety again, to see if you were receptive on an earlier transfer date. So it really can start to get very expensive if you need to keep repeating it. That is at least what happens at my clinic. Maybe others do it differently and charge you a set price until you find your window?

However, I know how frustrating it can be to have repeated failed attempts, and I really do feel your pain. Have you thought about taking meds such as letroxole because of your endo, or prednisone because of the inflammation your endo might cause? x


----------



## Carley

Bethannora - That was a worry of mine... having to have the test repeated! From what I’ve read when you have triple lining that’s a sign that things are happening at the right time etc unless be read that totally wrong, it’s all getting very confusing and frustrating!

I’ve used pred for most of my cycles except this last one as I used intralipids and was told I didn’t need both but I’m not sure how true that is! I’ve never heard of letroxole...

Xx


----------



## K jade

yeh that's a really good point bethan makes. it is a palaver as every time you do it you have to do a mock cycle and folk out for the drugs, although im sure many just use leftovers. 

instead of doing ERA id be half tempted to try a natural non medicated FET and see if that makes a difference. although I know clinics abroad are reluctant to do this as its harder to monitor. however I did hear that Reprofit will do them. I have myself always wandered if artificial oestrogen can switch off uterine receptivity in some women but I don't have any evidence to back this up. its just a hunch I have, especially as oestrogen is used as a contraceptive. 

do you have any identified immune issues, and do  you get OK linings?
I see you have had a full  term pregnancy before so clearly CAN do it
xx


----------



## Carley

K Jade - Unfortubateky I’m in early meno I only have 1 ovary that’s small and barely works so wouldn’t be able to have a natural FET 😔

I have nk cells checked and they’re very slightly elevated!
The thickness of my lining has always been good but I’ve only managed triple lining twice and one of those times I had to have extra help (synarel spray) which I believe is similar to letroxole (after doing some quick research) my clinic told me this would help get the triple line 🤔 I’m not sure if that’s what helped but I managed to get it eventually! Oh I also had the scratch before so that could have helped!

I really can’t afford more than one ERA, if I’m honest I can’t even afford the one time so maybe I’m best just going again and just hope it’s one of those things x


----------



## bippy11

Hi ladies, 
I might have to rejoin you here if that's ok. We got two cute little babies with heartbeats until scan at 8W2D. Then sadly on Friday at 9W2D scan both hearts had stopped. We were prepared that one might not make it as sac was too small, but it was a shock that both hadn't made it. We are so devastated       We really tried not to get too ahead of ourselves, but chances are supposed to get better when you've got to that stage. We hadn't told our families anything and were so looking forward to telling them happy news at Christmas, but instead we are now going to tell them the bad news this afternoon. Aargh it really sucks and I hate always having bad news and bringing everyone down  
Booked in for surgical miscarriage on Wednesday. As it's now third miscarriage I hope we can get some tests done. It was 3rd PGS tested embies we've tried, so Im starting to worry whether any of our remaining ones will be any good. 

Hope you are all well. Kjade and MrsC, Ill join you in the Christmas misery! xxx

A few new faces on here since I last joined, I will catch up with you all soon x 

Carrie have been thinking about you and Mark and sending you hugs and strength at this difficult time xxx


----------



## K jade

Carly ah I see. ERA might be worth perusing then in that case
finances are such a massive factor, and I know its tempting to just plough ahead and go for another transfer. However given that your using DE, or DD rather,  then you certainly have time to take a step back and have some investigations , get your ducks in line, before saving again before going for another transfer


oh Bippy im so so sorry  
that's awful and absolutely devastating. I honestly don't know what to say . have they given you any indication as to why this happened? I cannot imagine how devastated id be  

xx


----------



## Angedelight

Bippy I am so sorry to read your post. I honestly don't know what to say as words don't seem enough. Sending lots of love xx


----------



## Bettyville

Bippy, i am so so sorry to hear this news - sending you so much love xxx


----------



## Northern

Oh my goodness Bippy, I'm so sorry to read your post, just devastating - devastating at any time but after all you've been through and with the pressure of Christmas, you don't deserve any of this.  I'm so sorry lovely, look after yourself xxxx

Carrie been thinking of you too, can't imagine how hard this week has been and what you're going through. 

We went to the local Christingle service last night - it was lovely, made the whole Christmas thing less about presents and social life, more about just a special time with loved ones and there was a lot of remembering that Christmas isn't the John Lewis ad perfection of kids and happiness.  

I'm still reading in the background but not had a lot to post really, just enjoying a bit of time out and trying to relax before we gear ourselves up for whatever's next. 

Carly - recognise you from the Gennet thread, I'm sorry you find yourself here. 
Bethannora, I've read your blog on and off, I'm sorry your latest cycles haven't worked.  Good that you still have frosties left to try but it's so hard when you feel you're running out of things to try to make a positive difference. 

Love to all of you, I'm still reading if not posting very much xxxx


----------



## Aley

I am not the most active person here but I come in and read all the time.

Bippy, I am really sorry, is awful!  

Kjade, how is humira going? Are you taking any steroids as well?

Bethanora, sorry you’re finding yourself here, I’ve already said what I think about your determination, keep going with it, you’re doing a great job!

Carley, I would encourage you to have era, I know is expensive but if you think about it it’s the price you probably end up paying for a frozen transfer. I too avoided it in the beginning thinking I am paying for nothing but I’ll rather have the peace of mind now. Can I ask where are you having the embryo adoption? Sorry if it’s too intrusive.

Northern, Betty, MrC, I hope you girls are ok. 

Carrie, darling  

Sorry if I left people behind. 

Ah, leaving me behind   I am having a transfer in less than a month, hopeful but absolutely terrified too.


----------



## fifibell

Hello all,

Bippy  very sorry to read your news. I know what you mean about looking forward to having good news to share at Christmas. I honestly felt that this christmas was going to be that one for us.

I met with a friend last Thursday who suffered a miscarriage recently we had a few glasses of wine to drown our sorrows.

Feels like everywhere I turn I am seeing pregnant ladies it sometimes ferls like the universe is mocking me

Christmas will be quite this year as we normally go to my in laws but this year it'll just be the two of us and honestly it's a relief not to have to travel or get organised etc. 

I hope everyone has nice chilled Christmas and hope that 2018 will bring better luck for all of us.


----------



## Aley

I’ve just seen the discussions about ERA. So, my clinic said that if you are found to be non receptive you will also have the information if you’re pre or post receptive. My clinic doesn’t re-test for ERA. I guess you could but not a must as it doesn’t really differ with more than a day. That’s what I’ve been told anyway.


----------



## Carley

Aley - Unfortunately I just don’t have any spare money to be having more than one ERA! Even to get the money together for 1 will take a while and I’m not sure how I feel about it yet tbh!

I am with Gennet in Prague 

X


----------



## Angedelight

Ladies can someone explain how a FET works? Never had one before and that will be the next go. I know I said I was having a break from thinking about it all but I'm lying in bed ill and planning!!. As far as I know I get a decent lining, I always do with IVF meds, always around the 12mm mark and triple lined. I have normal periods that last 4 days so would imagine that my lining without meds is ok. Would it be worth getting a scan next month to see? Would this be around ovulation time?. My understanding is you can do medicated and non medicated. What do people think about the two options?.
Thanks
X


----------



## K jade

mrsC wow sounds like you get great linings! you can either take oestrogen supplements from day 1 of your next cycle and transfer around day 21 when linings ripe, or just go completely natural and do all that without the oestrogen. I guess whichever one Penny thinks  is best. given your great linings id be tempted to go natural. 
FETs are really easy
much easier than a fresh cycle

fifibell I agree, lets hope 2018 is the year for all of us. We all deserve our good luck soon. 

Aley wow less than a month. exciting! are you doing natural or medicated? 


Humira going fine. no side effects really that I can notice. Not on steroids, Dr G said no to that as uterine inflammation is low. Too much suppression will make my implantation issues worse apparently. 
TNFA  retest on 3rd Jan
doing everything I can to get it down naturally (well I was until I broke into a box of dairy milk last night and devoured them like an animal)
but apart from that I've been very good with diet. 
Did I mention my anti Tnfa  smoothies. cold green tea, avocado, turmeric, ginger, blueberries, cayenne pepper, chai seeds. all mixed together in a blender. 
vile and horrific. 
Infertility really hits a new low when your trying to get that down you 

XX


----------



## Angedelight

At least one thing works for me ok KJade! 😂
I was reading about anti inflammatory diets last night- that smoothie sounds like It's just the ticket. Or not! 
I'm so ill, I'm wondering if my high NK cells were caused by the thyroid being out of whack but now it's treated they might not be so fierce?. Is that even possible?! 
X


----------



## Aley

Carley, can you try a day 3 transfer I wonder? Or a day 3 and 5 to cover possibly early implantation window. Are you planning a new transfer soon?

Mrs-c, I've just had medicated fet before and when I asked for a natural one I was told I will need to have more scans and blood tests and that with my work is not always possible, plus a natural one has a greater chance of being cancel, again, with work not ideal. But if for you the above are not necessarily a problem you can try a natural one. I also read that a medicated one has slightly more success rates but who knows.

Kjade, I am having a medicated one, see the above why  
That smoothie sounds just amazing!


----------



## K jade

carley that's a good idea Aley suggests regarding day 3 transfer, maybe worth a try?

MrsC from what I've researched there's definitely  a link between high NKs and not getting common colds. 
so this may well be a good sign
as I said before since changing my diet I had colds galore!
xxx


----------



## Carley

Sorry for lack of personals I’m rubbish at keeping up!

I don’t think my clinic have frozen 3 day embies only 5 day blasts but it’s definitely something I’ll be asking!

I think I’ll be going for the ERA as they said if a second one is needed it’s free! 

I’m hoping to go again March/April... I’m waiting to be matched again

I hope you’re all well x


----------



## bippy11

Thanks so much for your kind words fifibell, aley, northern, bettyville, mrsc and kjade. We got hospital moved forward, so we actually went in yesterday. It was an upsetting and exhausting day, so many tears, but it's over with now and physically i feel ok. Emotionally I feel wiped out and devastated. We have told close family and friends that we need to tell for now, which was horrible, but at least it's done. Now i just feel sad and empty and wondering how on earth Im going to be able to go back to work and normal life in January. At least we don't have to deal with that just yet, so Im actually thankful it's Christmas. Also it's good as itll force us to see family, which, although I don't feel like it, will probably be good for us. 

Mrs C and Carrie, we followed your lead and booked a holiday   a week away in Feb half term (DH is a teacher). At least we can look forward to that! 

Mrs C, I (and my body) have far preferred FET with modified natural cycle (low dose of stimms). I responded much better to that than super high dose for oestrogen, which didn't make my lining as thick and made me feel awful, terrible headaches whenever I had to come off it. Ive never been able to try completely un-medicated as I don't ovulate and my lining needs some help. Your clinic should be able to help you with which one would be best for you to try, although sometimes it can be a bit trial and error how you respond. Happy to answer any questions you have if I can. 

Kjade and Aley, exciting that you are getting going again soon. Really really hoping this will be your round! xxx

Norhern and Carrie, have you watched the channel 4 thing about adoption? It's called 'finding me a family'. x


----------



## K jade

Great news carley! I think u should go for it. I really believe that money invested in investigations and getting to the bottom of things is money well spent

Bippy so sorry what a sad sad time for you.
It really hits home about the  sobering reality that there is yet another huge, unfathomable journey between getting implantation and actually having a baby.
I haven't watched finding me a family but I've heard about it.can I get it on itv catch up? xx


----------



## bippy11

Hi kjade, thank you xxx 
I know, it baffles me how anyone ever manages to get to the stage of actually having a baby! 
yep it's on catch up. it's a bit controversial, but I think if it helps some children find a family, then it needs to be done. A million times better for them than to go through a life in the care system. its so sad though for those it doesn't work for, but very heartwarming when it does. filming it also feels controversial, but again, if it helps raise awareness and potentially leads to more people thinking they could adopt, then it's worth it. would be interesting to hear your thoughts ladies. 
Just having a glass of wine and will have some chocolate later. seems to have been a daily occurrence since Friday.. I feel a bit guilty about enjoying it, but it's not as if it was my choice and I decided to swap our babies for wine and chocolate. Still though, feels wrong to be enjoying anything at the moment.


----------



## Liza-Jane34

Hi All

Not sure if I’m on the right group, just had my first ICSI treatment with DE and DH sperm, unfortunately found out four days ago it  was a BFN. After a few days of getting my head round it and the tears, looking at our next cycle. We had our first round free on the NhS, however now have to pay for future treatments. We are considering private clinics as well as Birmingham Women’s (where I had my first round). We have looked at Nurture Notts and Care Northampton. Has anyone used either of these clinics and would you recommend them? Is there anything I need to consider when looking for a clinic to use? 

Hope your all doing ok xxxx


----------



## Aley

So my ERA result is not back yet! It's been 4 weeks and I just think is a bit too long plus I am scared that now it will affect my dates for the transfer in January. Tomorrow I am due to start oestrogen tablets and steroids, talking of which, my NK cell biopsy is back and that showed that my NK are high and CD4 and cytokines are all high...bad cells everywhere   Anyway, the doctor said to take 15 mg although the nurses send my protocol with 25 mg of Prednisolone. Frustrating, right?  
I am just so *****d off with the ERA result although the doctor said they test for few other things with the biopsy and that some of the findings corelate with a normal receptivity window and therefore she thinks I will probably have a receptive result. Fingers crossed.  

bippy, I think you have all the right to submerse yourself in wine and chocolate.  

Liza-Jane, sorry it didin't work. Most of the girls here have 3+ failures, not that we're an exclusivist group but for your own positivity that's not probably the great place to hang out after one failure. First time success with IVF I sometimes think is an unicorn.   Good luck with your next one.


----------



## Liza-Jane34

Thank you Aley, I hope I haven’t offended anyone coming into this thread. I wish you all the best of luck in your  future xxxx


----------



## Aley

You didn’t offend anyone, not me in any case. I just think that if you read the stories on this topic as a novice in ivf you’ll have the impression that ivf is something scary that rarely works. The truth is the majority will get pregnant in the first 3 rounds with a very small majority having to try over and over again. One failed cycle as hard as it is, is not unusual unfortunately but if you insist you’ll get there, especially since you’re using DE.


----------



## K jade

Bippy I can't imagine what you'd give right now to NOT be allowed to drink  wine  

Aley sounds like you've had good whack of tests there.u had ERA and uNk biopsy right?  I know that prof quenby recommends 25mg for high uNk biopsy results,  but all doctors differ drastically in their views. Good to finally find a reason for things not working before. Fingers crossed this does the trick for you.

Lisa Jane I know that nurture and care are supposed to be very good clinics although no direct experience of them myself 
X


----------



## Aley

Yes, I had the ERA test and another biopsy, is an immunology biopsy basically but it’s one that my clinic does it and test for a few other things apart from nk cell. 

Well, my initial dose was 25 mg but now my dr said that 15 will be enough. I am just so confused right now! And I have to start it tomorrow...ah!


----------



## K jade

Aley did u get a decision in the end on pred dose? It's so confusing isn't it . Either way the fact that you've had problems identified and are going to take the necessary meds is a huge step foward. Everything crossed for u this time round. Your gonna nail it!

Just doing the last of the present wrapping .managed to spent just 8 pound each on everyone thanks to home bargains, aldi , and the works  
 
Wishing all u warrior women a peaceful and relaxing break. Back in jan and ready to attack 2018. Will will get there one way or another. There is no match for a repro challenged women on her mission to get her baby  . Soon the universe will realise and back the hell down!!   
Love and hugs to u all xxx


----------



## Aley

Thanks Kjade! After much deliberation in my head I decided I will go with 25 mg even though the clinic said 15 mg but then that 25 wouldn’t be a problem either so basically they didn’t really know so I went with my intuition and my own knowledge. 
My ERA test came back receptive!!! 

Wishing you a good, relaxing time and let’s hope 2018 will give us all what we desire the most. Xx


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all

Aley- thanks for the FET info. My clinic is in Athens so it sounds like medicated is best for me. Your biopsy sounds very thorough. Good news on the ERA too. Think of everything is really high takecthe higher dose!. 

KJade- love the bargain shopping. I see people going crazy spending huge amounts. For me it's the thought that goes into itthat matters more than the cost. As we went to London last weekend we said we would just spend £20 on each other but you have to get 5 presents with that. Takes a lot of thought!!.

Hi Liza Jane. Like you I've just had a failed DE/OS cycle. Was absolutely convinced it was going to work. This was after a number of OE cycles. It didn't. I'd say go to some open evenings, get a feel for clinics, read as much as you can. If you are now paying for cycles DE is cheaper abroad but anonymous donation as opposed to ID release at 18 here. Good luck with it all. 

Bippy been thinking of you. Hope you and DH are able to spend lots of time together.

Carrie- thinking of you too. 

Northern- how was your Christmas party? 

Hi everyone else, hope we are all ok. I cannot wait for Christmas to be over!!! My friend texted me earlier and said she has anti social attitude -ASA- I now have a new diagnosis for myself!!. Got a girls gathering tonight that I'm going to go to, aided by copious amounts of prosecco. I debated not going but think it might do me good. I've made a mental list of interesting things I can talk about- anyone else do this??. And if that fails everyone loves taking about themselves so should hopefully be able to avoid infertility talk. I've risk assessed the likelihood of a pregnancy announcement as LOW. 

Anyway, have a lovely Christmas everyone. 

X


----------



## Rio2016

I always risk access whether they’ll be a pregnancy announcement too. Only one this week and a suspicious non drinker 🎄🍷🎄🥂


----------



## fifibell

Hope you all have a nice Christmas. My mates are meeting up tonight for a Christmas/baby shower meal as one of my  group is currently pregnant.l thankfully was unable to make it so no need to do any risk assessment or wonder about any non drinkers as i know 2 of my firends are currently trying for a baby.


----------



## Northern

Merry Christmas to all you lovely brave ladies. However you're spending it, hope it's peaceful, relaxing and enjoyable - and the last one we spend without our little ones! 

Bippy - big hugs, enjoy as many glasses of wine as you can lovely and don't feel any guilt for savouring them, we know you'd rather not be able to have a drop xx 

Carrie, thinking of you and hope you and dh are doing as well as can be expected under awful circumstances xxx 

Mrs-C the Christmas do was ok thanks - I spent all of 5 mins around the baby, did my bit and then kept out the way so thankfully not too bad. Did you go to the girls gathering? Hahaha ASA that's a great diagnosis!  

Kjade/Mrs-C we do something v similar re presents - this year dp and I have an £8 limit for each other, makes it more fun and much less pressure or waste of money. In the past we've been even more specific eg £7.24 exactly and you have to spend the exact amount - much more fun than big extravagant gifts we haven't got the money for!

Here's to a lovely preggo-announcement free Christmas for all of us!


----------



## Carrie88

My lovely ladies - thank you for all your kind messages of support. Mrs C - thank you for the sympathy postcard and words you sent to us. 
We buried Marks dad on Friday - it was so hard and it's now made me terrified of if we don't have children who would sort out our house? Funeral? Estate? 
We got the last slot before Christmas - probably a small blessing - it would of been awful if it was lingering over us. 

I also found out my best friend is 15 weeks pregnant. 
She was the one who came to Greece with me and was pregnant then but didn't know.
She didn't want kids so I felt safe messaging her when other friends got pregnant and when transfer 5 failed I thought oh well at least her and her husband won't be having any so we still have childless friends....not the case anymore xx


----------



## Carrie88

Bippy - I have shed a tear reading your sad news. I am so so sorry - I know my words are probably of no comfort to you but I truly am. You must be devastated. 
Good idea to book a holiday. Where have you booked? Xx

Carley - I did the era test. It came back receptive but I still got a bfn after it. I'm sure I was told a re test would be free xx

MrsC - your Christmas tree sounds amazing!! Right up my street. How long till your holiday now? What have you decided with your next step? For FET there's a few options - either natural, or you start down regging on cd21, wait for a bleed And then add oestrogen on your next cd1 and reduce buserlin until your lining gets thick (above 7mm) and then you stop buserlin and start progesterone or you can skip the down reg part and just start oestrogen on cd1 xx

Kjade - good luck with the tnf. When I got mine retested they took 1-2 weeks to come back so not too long. The re test is about £370 which I think is a rip off xx

Northern - how are you doing? I like yours and hubby present idea. Have you got a quiet one planned? Xx

Liza-Jane - sorry to hear of your bfn. I've heard great things about care Nottingham and they do level 2 immune testing and things like intralipids and steroids. I can't imagine they offer them after 1 failed transfer but it's still handy to know xx


----------



## Carrie88

Bethanora - gosh I thought I'd been through a lot of cycles. My heart goes out to you. I'll start reading your diary but have you decided your next step? What has your consultant said? Ohymgod that's awful. I bet it still hurts no matter how long it's been, big hugs!! Xx

Bettyville - how are you doing? So sorry about your losses. Is your life ever the same again?  Xx

Fifibell - sorry you couldn't make your friends meet up, maybe for the best though - I bet it was all baby talk xx

Aley - how are you? Are your era results back yet? I've been on 20mg of pred Xx

Anyone else I've missed I am so sorry. I'm on my iPhone and have 5 pages to read, love to you all xxxxx


----------



## K jade

MrsC I hope last night was enjoyable and your risk assessment proved to be right .

Fifibell glad  u managed to get outta the baby shower. Even if divine intervention allows me to have numerous babies I will never  in a million years attend a baby shower

Northern ha! I like it. A prego free Christmas !  I'll drink to that  .
what's the betting I won't get one. My bro and his gf are on the risk-da right now  

Carrie what a sad sad time for u. There's no doubt about it. You are being TESTED  . Don't falter. Stand strong and have faith in your dreams. your father in law will now be watching over u and mark making sure you get there .I'm sure of it. There's only one way for u now and that's UP UP UP


----------



## Angedelight

Carrie- you're welcome. Nice to have you back on here. Are you still going on holiday?. Rubbish timing with your friend. Just what you needed to finish the year off. 

KJade- risk assessment correct. It was a nice night, it was back where I used to live and all the girls that were there I used to be so close too. They all had children, we didn't, I distanced myself. Sad how infertility affects everything. It was nice to see them and they all have so many kids now and they're growing up that they're grateful for a night off so there wasn't much kid chat. Thank god.

Fifibell- that was a good swerve avoiding that baby shower. They are awful things. I went to one once when we were having time out from treatment, was in a good place, just moved to a new city, new job- it made me depressed for a week after!. 

Northern- glad you only had to endure 5 minutes!.

Hi everyone else and happy Christmas Eve.

X


----------



## Carrie88

Thank you kjade and mrs C. 
Yes we are still going on holiday - then going to deal with probate and sorting out his mum and dads house in the new year.
Yes next year has to be better!! Xx


----------



## Carrie88

Merry Christmas everyone!! 

I hope you enjoy this day as best as you can.
I know our hearts are missing a piece but I need to be grateful for what I have and enjoy it xxx


----------



## K jade

Happy Christmas everyone     xxx


----------



## Northern

Merry Christmas all you lovely ladies - enjoy the day    
Xxx


----------



## Aley

Merry Christmas  I hope you all have a good time, as good as it can be. Thinking of you all. Xx


----------



## K jade

Fuming ladies. 
So last night DH and I were left with his parents after all the guests trickled out. Dh tells his parents how we r thinking of moving next year as our current area isn't suiting us. THEN father in law says this:
" the thing is you 2 DON'T have children ..... therefore you have the luxury to choose anywhere in the city, it's a terrible ordeal when u can only choose a home based on school catchment area.you've just seen what your sister has been through .catchment area is everything when you have children "
the way in which FIL said " you 2 don't have children" line was REALLY weird.like he was delivering the news someone had died. The awkward silence which followed was deafening! 
I couldn't take it. I just splurged. 
Catchment area isn't everything blah  blah . .I went to one of the roughest schools around,  turned out alright. My niece had a lovely little school lined up.she doesn't wanna go.much preferes going over the older boyfriends to smoke weed all day...so on that basis Its not really top of our list of priorities . etc etc etc ...more ranting I can't recall.

Obviously it was all beside the point and I couldn't really set them straight on the real reason I was pi $$ed off. But I'm pleased I stood up first myself. I wasn't just gonna sit pretty and smile and make light of the fact that it's really great we don't have catchment area issues , just because they don't know about our ttc malarkey. 

But I'm so annoyed about how angry it made me.I haven't slept and I'm worried it's not helped with the whole tnfa thing and I'll need humira now. I'm  just fuming with FIL .how dare he?


----------



## Aley

Oh no, that’s just beyond annoying.
I reckon they know absolutely nothing about ivf&the rest. 
I hate when people make it look like what a great life we have because we don’t have children, regardless of trying or not, it’s just not something anyone should say. When you decide to have children you go with whatever comes. I am sorry but I just can’t feel sorry for people complaining how inconvenient is to have children. 
I am sorry you had to listen to that, not nice at all. Good you stand your ground.


----------



## Carrie88

Ohymgod kjade. 
You did so well for sticking up for yourself. You're right too, catchment area isn't anything. I think how you develop is mainly due to the friends you make and whether they're academic and want to learn or not.
That's so rude. What did DH say? 

Please don't worry about the stress affecting your tnf levels - you'll be ok xx

We go on holiday tomorrow and from tomorrow I'll be disabling my ******** account but not insta. Sick of my friends writing posts like Christmas is so amazing when you have children, my heart is fit to burst with love and excitement.

Eurgh xx


----------



## K jade

Thanks ladies knew you'd get it 

Oh jeez carrie like u need to hear that!  (Vomit)
As soon as I see stuff like that I just click unfollow .
Its very liberating . Tha way they can chat all they like but it's on deaf ears .

DH was also fuming and chipped in too. We slated the lot of them on the drive home. 

SIL wasn't much better and gave her classic one liners.
" I get so emotional watching my son grow up"
" I needed pathadrin during labour" (12 years ago)
" I've drank so much prosecco over the past week .u know what it's like with our massive group of friends. parties galore" 

Luckily everyone seems to ignore her 

Off to my family now. Bought my 15 year old niece a lovely basked of goodies.make up.choices. fluffy socks.nail varnish. When I know all she really wants is a bottle of whisky and a pack of **** I expect .
Don't blame her really
X


----------



## Angedelight

Oh KJade. I bet they would feel awful having said that if they knew what you were going through. Do they not know anything at all about it?.  

Gosh, what 'a terrible ordeal when you can only choose a home based on catchment area'. Terrible ordeal??. That's not terrible!. Multiple failed cycles, thousands of pounds, smashed hopes and dreams and god knows how many invasive procedures is a terrible ordeal!!. 

It reminds me of my parents getting it completely wrong and what my Mum said after the second to last failed cycle. My brother and I are both Clomid babies. I was there, clearly upset due to the cycle failing. She said 'you're so lucky with modern science these days, back in my day all I could do was take a pill!'. Well you can imagine. If all I had to do was take a pill I'd count that as very lucky, the fact that modern science has done absolutely nothing for me sent me over the edge and I ran from the house and had a complete meltdown in the front garden clutching the dog!  God knows what the neighbours thought. Needless to say they never bring up treatment at all these days!.

Carrie deleting social media definetely helps. I don't miss ** at all. I hope you both have a good break.

I thought I had loads of cheapy ovulation sticks. Cannot find them so will have to investigate what else I can use so I can get this biopsy done. I'm still ill, over 2 weeks now. Will get NK cells retested in the NY as they clearly aren't working anymore! How easy/quick is it to get an appt with Gorgy?.

Anyway I'm so pleased Christmas is done. All in all it was ok but I'll keep wishing that'll it be very different for us all next year. Hope everyone is doing ok.

X


----------



## Aley

I am still amazed to hear what people have to say when it comes to treatment/ivf. 


When was the last time you had a biopsy, Mr-c? Hope you’re better. 

Carrie, I hope you’ll enjoy your holiday and you’ll come back feeling a bit lighter of all the cr*p you had to deal with. 

I can’t believe Christmas is gone, I had a good one so can’t complain. Sure there was another pregnancy announcement in my wife’s lot but I kinda knew about it from a few weeks ago and I had a good cry then so I was happy to say I didn’t shed one tear now. Apart from that just the usual ******** ‘oh, next Christmas we’ll be 3!’ I can’t delete my social media accounts because that’s how I communicate with my family and friends, most of them in different countries but I don’t go in that often. 

Hope everyone is ok and this Christmas wasn’t too terrible.


----------



## Carrie88

Mrs C - normally so easy and quick to get an app with dr Gorgy. When my last transfer failed on the Tuesday, they offered me a follow up on the Thursday xx 

Aley - thanks lovely. Sounds like you've handled that pregnancy announcement really well - little cry and then moving on. I'm glad you managed to enjoy Christmas and had a good time xx


----------



## K jade

MrsC no they know  nothing so I can't entirely blame them. however I still feel it's a draft thing to say 
2018 we will see less of them as I realised my whole relationship with them is fake. That's largely because they don't know about the ivf but dh doesn't want them to. It's really hard I find to upkeep all the nicesitites and chit chat when everything is based on a lie. They don't really know me at all as such a huge part of my life has to be omitted. 
Yes .that's my new years resolution. Less of the in laws in 2018. It's awful cause the way they are makes me WANT a baby even more so I can prove them all wrong as I know they have pigeon holed me.
Oh bless u how stupid of your mum.  
Glad u told her straight. What the hell is wrong with people? !
Cuddling the dog!  absolutely brilliant . The dog would have been right on your side there fighting your corner.  If only they could talk
Yeh DrG is really easy to get appointment with no wait at all xx

Second humira injection is done .did it in my parents bathroom. Felt so rebillious jacking up at the rents on boxing day with no one having  a clue what I was up to. weird what gives u a thrill isn't it?! 
Common humira work your magic and make my body baby friendly! !!


----------



## Angedelight

Love the New Years resolution KJade!. I feel like some of my friendships and my working relationships are like that- I have this huge thing in my life that no one knows about. I suppose this year might be the year that I'm honest. Yes, I'm pregnant, do you have a spare hour to listen to what that took? 😂 Or, No we don't have children, do you have a spare hour to listen to how hard we tried?!. One way or the other our fertility journey ends in 2018. 

Aley- knowing in advance makes it much easier. That's why I have a finely tuned pregdar!. I've only had NK cells tested by blood, never by biopsy. After being so ill for ages I'll get them retested in Feb- they aren't working so well anymore I don't think!- as I'm sending a load of blood to Locus Medicus in Athens to cover all the tests Gorgy will want as much cheaper. Dragging myself to Boots in a minute to get some ovulation sticks as an online thing says I need to start doing them tomorrow then as soon as I get a positive I can book a biopsy in coventry.

X


----------



## K jade

Oh MrsC That's so sad. I totally agree if only people knew. This story will only end one way  for u and that's with YOUR BABY. Dr G will get to the bottom of things . Serum are a great clinic. But they are empirical. Some of us need the tailored stuff. And get that biopsy done. It's important to know your uterine inflammation I believe.  As if low or normal  steroids are bad bad bad. X


----------



## bippy11

Merry Christmas ladies   

I just wrote a long post, but then deleted it because I felt guilty because I mentioned about a few difficulties with DHs family over Christmas.. I told him and he says it's fine to write to you about it, so maybe I will again another day. Anyway, safe to say I am very relieved to be at home again! So relieved in fact that I couldn't even wait to start crying until we got back home and started bawling as we were walking back from the tube! 

Sending you all love and Carrie sending extra big hugs to you my dear, what a terrible time you've had. Hope you and DH are having a restful break away from everyone and everything and can enjoy a bit of respite together on your much-deserved holiday xxx


----------



## K jade

Bippy I watched finding me a family last night
Thought some of those kids were lovely , and the couples too. Terribly sad about the big sibling group. I know they will be split. I know of people who adopted a group of 3 boys. But never 4. For starters very few people actually have a big enough house. That little boy at the end just brought tears to my eyes. He looked  like he belonged there with that couple.  Yes definatly worth watching. 
Glad u are home now, what a difficult Christmas it mush have been for u and Dh xxx


----------



## fifibell

Hey everyone 
Mrs c and K jade I also empathise with the feeling like there's a big part of my life that no one knows about. Its very hard I ended up telling my dad because since our last failure he kept asking me was I ok and commenting on how I wasn't  myself. I'm glad I did in the end because it's now one less person  I have to keep up a front with.

Bippy I'm glad your home now and can take sometime to yourself. 

Dh and i had a long talk about how especially the last 2 years we've been in a kind of stasis  because we both believed we'd have a family by now and we're waiting for it to happen without really thinking of the future. I think this has taken a toll on us mentally and emotionaly 

So we've decided that regardless of how the fertility journey goes from now on we are moving forward to the next stage of our lives and making plans for ourselves that aren't centred around or based on treatments and ivf cycles. We've  also decided to start making plans to move back home to Ireland within the next 2 years.  Which after spending our 30's in London will be a change.

Hope everyone else is well


----------



## bippy11

Kjade, I know, i so wish those gorgeous 4 siblings could stay together, but I think you're right, its sadly very unlikely. Im going to watch the next episode, just not feeling quite up to it yet. 

Fifibel, sounds a really positive step for you and DH. We need to do the same at some point, we've been standing still for the past 5 years whilst we've been stuck in this fertility treatment hell. We have talked about moving (from London) to the seaside, but the dream is to do that with children / child. I don't know how much longer I can take this, just carrying on with the same old. At some point we need to make that decision to move forward too. For now, I am going to request dropping down to 4 days a week for Jan / Feb, but that is not really a change, that is more to help me be able to cope with continuing.


----------



## K jade

Well in spirit of DH making sure no one ever knows about our ivf journey he decided to hide all my left over drugs in the garage and I've only come to learn of this now as I needed to go in there for something 
Boxes and boxes of cetroitide, merional, and lubion all ruined as they have froze and thrawed countless times due to the freezing winter we've had 
They were largely from my last ivf cycle as it was cancelled therefore I had all the meds left 
Its no big deal. Clinic will give me more. It just feels so wasteful .there was probably a grands worth in there.
I could have used these drugs for private cycles in the future to save me money.  
DHs - always a hindrance and never a help.


----------



## Carrie88

Happy new year ladies!! Hope you all had a lovely evening. 
We got back from tenerife yesterday. Had a lovely time - it was full of families and children though  

Kjade - ohmygod haha! I can't believe your hubby did that. Why didn't he just put them in the back of a wardrobe? Oh definetly. The things I see on instagram about people's husbands. Definetly always a hinderence in the IVF world haaa! Hope your tnf have come down as well, lovely!! 

Fifibell - I think that's a solid decision. I know how you feel about your life being on hold. We do take time to do thighs for us two cos it's so important but even then that's a black cloud hanging over us. My 20's should be amazing and it's domineered by this that I see no end to. 

MrsC - good idea to use Athens for bloods and then dr Gorgy for others. Have you managed to book in with him for the biopsy? 


Hope everyone else is ok, love you all xx


----------



## Carrie88

Also random fact after deleting my ******** this time your messenger stays active which is great cos it means my profile is deleted and I don't have to see posts but people can still keep in touch with me  
Only if they've already spoken to you though can they message you.

Also trying to think of transfer 6:

Hi does anyone have any opinions on which is the best route to go down? This is what's puzzling me for the next step. There's positives and negatives to all. 
1. Yes I have periods and ovulate but they're every 35 days and only last 2 days so quite irregular and light. The chances of my lining being thick enough is probably slim. 
A natural transfer has more monitoring and I live by Liverpool and the travelling to London last minute would be expensive and hard to balance with work. 
There's no control over it and if something lands on a Sunday when the clinic is closed that's a problem. 


2. Medicated. My lining has never really got above 7.6mm. However I know I'm receptive on the protocol of (no down regging, oestrogen on cd1) as I've had the era test. My lining wasn't triple striped last time either, again reducing my chances. But dr Gorgy says you can be receptive and not triple striped. He said no to viagra and tamoxifen but I can probably nag him again into giving it to me to try make my lining thicker. My bloods were taken with every scan so although my lining isn't thick I know my oestrogen levels were fine. 
Lot more controlled cos its medicated. 
Success rates are neither really here nor there with medicated or natural. I think if my cycles were more regular and longer I would chance natural but I'm leaning more towards medicated again. 
What does everyone else think? 


Also do people think my beta of 6.8 from transfer 5 was a chemical? 
Dr gory says yes as the pregnyl trigger would of been out of my system by then.

I took 1500 on Tuesday, transfer was Wednesday, 1500 on Thursday, 1500 on Saturday and beta was the following Friday so 10 days after the first trigger.

Everything I've read said 5000 is out of your system by around day 6/7 but they tell you 10 days to be sure. 

It's playing on my mind whether it was a chemical or the trigger xx


----------



## bippy11

Hi Carrie, 

I would go for a 3rd option: Modified natural cycle. 

I also can't do natural as my periods a far apart / irregular, I don't tend to ovulate and lining wouldn't be thick enough. However, I didn't respond particularly well to medicated with high does oestrogen (like you, no down regging). 

So instead we did modified natural cycle, using Merional to help build the lining (same drug we used for stimming before egg collection, but a much lower dose for the FET so that we only got one follicle instead of lots). We also used a trigger (Gonasi) to ensure ovulation, which means that the body naturally supports the lining (along with progesterone injections - Lubion) This worked well for me. Did you discuss this option with your Doc? 

xxx


----------



## Carrie88

I did and dr Gorgy said no.
He said he doesn't really really want to change anything xx


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## K jade

carrie hope you had a lovely holiday, and great news that your going to go for FET . As for your question  its a difficult one . sorry I'm absolutely rubbish on protocols and am only just learning about  all the different ones myself. I now know that stim building your lining is called natural modified . thanks Bippy!

I wander why DrG said no to natural modified. can you ask him to reconsider or give an explanation as to why this would be unsuitable? I think it would help for him to expand. I  know he knows his stuff, but then I guess, so do we patients. 
We're the ones reading up on this stuff day in day out. I guess when the doctors get home all they want to do is kick back and forget about work.  
We burn the midnight oil with a copy of 'is your body baby friendly' that's how I roll anyway!  
otherwise I do think going for the same thing as you did on ERA would be a good option. 

I do think that your last beta was a chem.  a total negative would  have been an hcg of 0-5. your body is trying.


----------



## bippy11

Carrie forgot to say - glad you had a lovely time in Tenerife! Hope you were able to mostly ignore the families! 

I agree with Kjade, I think you need an explanation as to why he said no. Why not try it?? I can only go from my personal experience, but by trying out different approaches I seem to have found the one that my body responds best to. I think it doesn't make sense to just discard it without trying, as you haven't had great results with other protocol. I would be happy to recommend you my Dr if you would like a second opinion.


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all

Happy New Year! Hope everyone got through the festive period ok. I really enjoyed parts of it and went out and caught up with lots of people. Looking forward to feeling well again though as been ill for parts of it and burnt the candle at both ends. 

Fifibell and Bippy- after 3 rounds of treatment and a pretty hellish year with it, we made the decision to move. We had always wanted to but put it on hold because of treatment. For us and our relationship it was the best thing we could have done, I think I'd have moved on my own if DH wasn't up for it!. All the excitement of selling our house, finding a new one, new jobs and a new city was a real tonic, along with a 2 year break from treatment. It's crazy how much gets put on hold because of it. Bippy I hope you got your request met to drop your hours. Lot to be said for extra headspace and time to just relax or do something you enjoy.

KJade- such a helpful DH 😂 We had one of my work friends house sit and dog sit last year, I had to do a sweep to check there was nothing hanging around as work people don't know any of this. Be a bit awkward if he had found a sharps box!.

Carrie so glad you had a good holiday and are thinking about the next steps. Interesting to see all the FET advice as that's what mine will be next, not had one before. I haven't even bothered having our follow up from the last cycle, I must book it in to see what they recommend. I've not made an appointment with Dr G yet, was going to go to coventry for the biopsy. I'm currently using the clear blue ovulation sticks. According to period tracker I should ovulate today but nothing on the test this morning. I would say chemical rather than trigger. 

Hope everyone else is Ok.

Well my guilty pleasure starts tonight, celeb BB, always gets me through January!

X


----------



## Aley

Hi lovely ladies, wishing you all a great year ahead! Xx

Carrie, glad to hear you enjoyed your stay in Tenerife and...planning for the next transfer! 
As you said, the success rates are not much different with a medicated one but you have the luxury of planning and plus having done the era you know when you’re receptive. I think you do have to insist with the clinic to look more into how your lining can be improved. The thicker it gets the better. Maybe apart from oestrogen you should look into alternatives like acupuncture (can’t remember if you had it, sorry) different teas, natural remedies. Just throw everything in the mix and see how it goes. 
Regarding the beta level, is hard to say, different people metabolise differently and you did have the hcg top ups. You will never know so just think it was whatever makes you feel better, if thinking it’s a chemical will give you more peace of mind and positivity than let it be that. Hugs!

Kjade, I can’t believe your husband...but ask a pharmacy maybe some will still be ok? 

Hi Mrs-c, bippy, fitbell.


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade/bippy - you're right. I should challenge him again . I can see why he doesn't want too cos the era was receptive with it and if he believes my 6.8 beta was a chemical and not a trigger then it's the first time anythings tried to implant. But dammit I think something else could be worth a try and I am paying for this. 
I'm going down in January to see him for the scratch so cd21. I'm going to ask him to measure my lining as I ovulate around then so hopefully my lining will give some clue as to what it would be like on a natural transfer? 

MrsC - glad you managed to enjoy parts of Christmas  ahh yes good going with the Coventry, you get 2 biopsies there instead of the 1. 

It worries me slightly that dr Gorgy did my NKC biopsy too early as I was only 6dpo when he did it and I know Coventry say around 8 days don't they? 
I did ask him that and he says it wasn't but even if it was a bit early it would probably be normal and not low like it was.

Thanks Aley  
Yup tried acupuncture. I did it for about 8 months prior to starting the last FET, tried the neupogen, tried vitamin E and l-argine supplements, tried organic raspberry leaf tea. Dr Gorgy did my bloods every scan and was happy with the results. So that could just be my lining? Xx


----------



## K jade

Omg just wrote a massive essay then phone connection went as soon as I pressed post. 
I'm on the train. Roadie all by myself for tnfa retest. Cheaper to go all the way to London than get blood drawn where I live can u beleive . Keep your fingers crossed for me. I'm not gonna lie the humira has made me feel fantastic. Gone are my migeanes, fatigue,  brain fog and even depression!  

Carrie u know your stuff. U are very well researched.  Please challenge him. What is there to lose by trying something new? Trying new tactics is the method in which we achieve success. 

Aley sadly I think my drugs are a goner . The powders looked all sweaty when I examined them. Such a shame. 

I'm listening to Magic chilled. Sounds sad as hell but for all you who were teenagers in the late 90s early 2000s this radio station is the best!


----------



## Aley

Sorry Carrie, didn't mean to repeat what you've already tried, I am sure at this point there is probably little you wouldn't have tried. 
The girls are right, ask and challenge the doctor, as I said before I don't really believe in 'knows it all doctor' trust me, it's not possible to know everything in medicine and a good doctor should always be up for learning new things.

Kjade, good luck with the re-test. Amazing to hear Humira had such an effect. You're still doing the dairy free diet? 
I am trying to stay away from milk but I really can't stop myself from a bit of cheese


----------



## Carrie88

K jade said:


> Omg just wrote a massive essay then phone connection went as soon as I pressed post.
> I'm on the train. Roadie all by myself for tnfa retest. Cheaper to go all the way to London than get blood drawn where I live can u beleive . Keep your fingers crossed for me. I'm not gonna lie the humira has made me feel fantastic. Gone are my migeanes, fatigue, brain fog and even depression!
> 
> Carrie u know your stuff. U are very well researched. Please challenge him. What is there to lose by trying something new? Trying new tactics is the method in which we achieve success.
> 
> Aley sadly I think my drugs are a goner . The powders looked all sweaty when I examined them. Such a shame.
> 
> I'm listening to Magic chilled. Sounds sad as hell but for all you who were teenagers in the late 90s early 2000s this radio station is the best!


Seriously chick? 
My GP does all my bloods for dr Gorgy? 
TDL post me the vials and blood order form and I just book an app with the gp and then post it down special delivery.

Have a safe trip down and that sounds like positive symptoms so hopefully it's worked and has come down enough. I'll keep everything crossed xx

Thanks Aley you're totally right lovely. When I see him in person I'll defo challenge him. I find it easier to do it in person than on the phone with Gorgy.
In all honesty I think it depends what mood he's in as well haha xx


----------



## K jade

Carrie nope . My GP told me they'd help me with nothing but nothing fertility related as they've done their bit by referring me to NHS clinic. 
[email protected]$!!!! 
Found a lovely private doc just up the road from me who'll do me anything I ask for. But blood draw and courier  is £85. Train to ldn is £34. 

Aley totally agree. No doc knows everything xx


----------



## Carrie88

Ohymgod kjade that's terrible  
Terrible they won't help you on something so simple. 
They don't make it easy man!! Xx


----------



## K jade

It's weird cause this particular GP started out really really helpfull. 3 years down the line she's bored of me asking for fertility related stuff cause let's face it long term infertile people are clearly very boring to health professionals  
So that was that. Hands washed and on your own x


----------



## bippy11

Carrie re ERA, mine was also done with medicated FET, but as it is based on no of days on progesterone, it can still be applied to a modified natural cycle. So for example, if you were receptive after 5 days on progesterone: You do the trigger and will then ovulate around 36 hours after that (as far as I can remember), your body will then start producing progesterone naturally, but you will also start progesterone support and then 5 days after that you do transfer. Hope that makes sense, but your Doc should know about it. If not, feel free to ask if you have any more questions about this. 

Kjade I think its really luck of the draw with GPs, mine have been been fairly unhelpful over the years. Shame you have to travel all the way to London for bloods, but hope you manage to have a nice trip anyway. Glad to hear you are feeling better on Humira. 

MrsC thank you. Im going to discuss it with my manager next week, he has been very supportive, so I think he will agree. This week I am just working from home as I just didn't feel ready to go in yet and still having some pretty horrible headaches from the drop in hormone levels. How inspiring to hear about your move and job change. For us I also think it would have to involve a break from treatment and we are not quite there yet, but I think the time will come. I feel like I am getting towards the end of how much more I can just continue along the same old path and not move forward with our lives.. 

Today would have been 12 weeks. I am trying not to dwell on it, but it keeps catching me out and making me feel sad   x


----------



## Bettyville

Hi ladies,
Happy new year - hope you all had a nice festive break. Mine was nice apart from being ill - i guess my body was starting to relax and then bam! i get ill! Always the way.

i wanted to ask your advice - i suffer from hormonal migraines and i know exactly when they drop and one week later, i usually get my period. Anyway, i have always wondered if this is due to having lower levels of progesterone and if so, is there a way to look into this? I've had my usual day 21 blood tests which shows that ovulation has occurred but i just wonder if there's any more to my thoughts? Any thoughts ladies?

Thanks
Betty x


----------



## Aley

Hi Bettty, I get migraines too with my period. It has more to do with the fluctuations of hormones, the raise in oestrogen and then drop and then progesterone, not a sign of low progesterone. You can have that tested for your own peace of mind and the good thing with progesterone is that there are many ways of supplementing it. 

Bippy, sorry you feel sad, I guess is hard not to. Try not to think too much about it, keep your mind busy.


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade - that's crazy. I'm all for the NHS but sometimes I think it would be better privatised like other countries. Remember that lump in my husbands leg that's an nf lump? He got referred in September to a clinic to have it removed. They told him there's no appointments so he still doesn't have one. He then asked his gp could he be referred to a neurofibromotosis clinic as a new one is opening in Liverpool. His gp said no as it's just for children. 
I then called the neurofibromotosis help line who aren't impressed with his gp and wanted all their details so they could send them information about the condition and that it's a serious one and there's a clinic in Manchester mark could be referred to and mark has an app on Friday to discuss that. 
He first went to the gp about the lump in his leg in August!! 

& it's things like I want my wisdom tooth out but the criteria has changed and now I don't meet it. A few years ago I did and I thought If it was I'd just use my insurance and have it pulled. 

Which is such a shame I'm thinking that way cos I love the NHS and I am so so grateful for the workers and what they've provided to my family but when you hit barriers with them it's so bloody frustrating. 

Mini rant over ha xx

Bippy - ohh I see, yes I was receptive for day 5. How often were you monitored during the prep? Oh bippy I'm so sorry. I can't even imagine how you're feeling. Each day will become easier and the bad days will become less and less although it will take a while. Do you have the next step planned? Xx

Bettyville - if your day 21 bloods are ok then your progesterone should be fine. Like aley said they're normally just caused by the raise and not then drop etc. I get them some period months also and they're defo hormonal xx


----------



## K jade

Oh Carrie what an awful way your hubby was treated!
your right the NHS is great but when you have a long term health problem it can act as more of a hindrance than a help
luckily my nhs fertility clinic have by-and-large been brilliant so that's something to be grateful for. 

oh found this quote in Beers book " the result this time was a 'hint of a pregnancy' with a partial implantation that had raised her HCG just off zero to 5.4" .
so that's what Beers refers to it as. partial implantation. so in other words I guess a chemical. 

betty happy new year hun. I think those migraines are really common. I get them. I don't think it indicates  a problem although, as I've learnt,  ladies with immune issues are more prone to migraines and vascular headaches. 

Aley yes and no. Milk I've been really good with and don't have it at all. but butter and cheese have been creeping in. but I think these are OK.

Bippy so sorry what a sad time for you. I cannot imagine how you must be feeling . ((((((((((hugs)))))))))))

xxx


----------



## bippy11

Thanks ladies. You're right Carrie, the bad days / times will become less and it will get easier as time goes on, that's already the case since the immediate aftermath, so I just have to remember that. We have to wait until my body settles from the miscarriage, generally it's 2 - 3 months, so we will have to be patient (again!) and hope it's sooner rather than later. We will have a follow up with our doc later this month. I might get tested for immunes again even though it's expensive, because I only want to take steroids again if it really is necessary, they gave me such bad insomnia this time. 

Carrie I was monitored a couple of times a week for 2 - 3 weeks, plus bloods a few times a week. It was the same as for my fully medicated cycle, my doc likes to keep quite a close eye on things, which I like too. Once I did the trigger there was no more monitoring for the 7 days until transfer. 

Well done Carrie for contacting the helpline and getting an appointment sorted. I have experienced similar inefficiencies and sometimes you just have to make things happen yourself because otherwise nothing happens!


----------



## Carrie88

Bippy - that's a good idea. You could always use locus for the immunes test? My steroids used to keep me awake as well until I switched and took them in the morning.  
Make sure you plan some lovely things to make the next couple of months go fast  
Hmm that's not too bad, I could cope with that level of monitoring xx

Kjade - I agree - that's great your NHS fertility clinic have been amazing!! 
I guess I'll never know whether the 6.8 was a chemical or just the remains of the hcg trigger in my system  xx


I was thinking and it may be hard cos everyone is all over the place but does anyone fancy a meet up? 
Lunch one Saturday or something? 
I'm more than happy to travel to a city somewhere especially if we book in advance so my train ticket will be cheaper. 

What does everyone think? Xx


----------



## K jade

I would definitely be up for meeting am in Cardiff but can get to most places (as long as its not the outta Hebrides)
easiest for me would be London Birmingham or Bristol 
x


----------



## Angedelight

I would be up for meeting! I'm in Bristol so same as KJade for easiest places. 
X


----------



## Northern

Aw I love the idea of a meet up   

I can get most places as am lucky enough to have a pretty-much-free rail pass, I'm in far north-west but Manchester or Birmingham are easy to get to, or even London really. 

Am pretty booked up though in Jan/Feb so don't mind if I miss the first get-together, it'll prob always be hard to find dates everyone can do lol and I'm guessing we may end up planning more as I suspect we could all talk for hours!


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## Carrie88

Fab girlies!! 
Will wait for more responses but I'm north too but Birmingham is easy accessible by train.

So Birmingham could be a good shout? As it's quite central? Could meet up mid morning, I'll book us somewhere nice for lunch and then head home late afternoon/early evening xx


----------



## K jade

b'ham is good with me 
away for a week end of jan / beginning of feb. hopefully going canaries
but all other times im free
xx


----------



## Bettyville

Hi ladies,
Oh have a lovely meet up - if anyone does anything in London, pls let me know. I work in Central but am based in West London xx


----------



## bippy11

Carrie that's such a good idea - I was actually thinking about this on my run this morning and wondered whether to suggest it! 

Im in London, happy to travel up to Bham if we can plan it a bit in advance so train tickets aren't crazy expensive. Or happy to do London obvs!   wow were all quite spread out! I love accents so this will be fun!  

Carrie what's locus for the immunes test? 

Kjade, we've got a week booked in Fuertaventura for Feb half term and Carrie's just been to Tenerife - It's all about the Canaries! Get booked for some winter sunshine!   Carrie what was the weather like? 

Have had a bit of a pamper day - ran to the lido this morning, had a lovely swim and then went to the spa afterwards - I could get used to such luxury


----------



## Carrie88

Awww were you? Great minds haha! 
Yeah I think Birmingham - it's probably the same amount of travel time for everyone and same cost. 
I'll check my diary later and send some dates across. 

Locus Medicus are now doing immune testing and they're so much cheaper than the uk for them. I'll find you the link with all the info but kjade used them so is probably the best person to contact. 

Haha it is! Youre safe with the canaries.
The weather was so so hot. It was hard to imagine it cold here. It was about 22 degrees, too hot for me at times. We managed to get to a water park which was fun  

Awww bippy that sounds lovely, simple pleasures though can make such a difference xx


----------



## Carrie88

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=344744.0

Bippy here's the thread xx


----------



## K jade

Good idea carrie ! Yep b'ham is fine with me . So glad to hear canaries was hot as we r booking today. 
Haha just read your diary. So with u on the vits . What's the ****** point ! I agree.  fed up with swallowing massive pills that don't do a dam thing. Maybe I'll join u on a vitamin free cycle . 

Bippy aw snap!  
we are also booking fuerteventura today. Found a beautiful hotel with a spa . Really can't wait . Didn't have a relaxing holiday last year so really in need of one now . 
The thread carrie copied is the one I used. It's a really great guide.


----------



## Carrie88

Oh god don't join me. I'm a bad ****! 

Did you book your holiday? The place you're looking at sounds lush and just what you need xx


----------



## K jade

yes done!
we travel 27th to fuerteventura. only BnB as for some reason thompson or tui wouldnt let us go half board. 
Absolutley cannot wait.  i really feel i need it so does DH. 

hope everyone is good
few things happening for me this week . tnfa retest result will hopefully arrive and i also have treatement planning too..... fingers crossed things go to plan
xx


----------



## Carrie88

Oh lovely - that will be so nice and will do you and DH the world of good  bet you can't wait!! 

I hope your results are back that fast. Mine have been posted to London today so I'm guessing they'll be in Chicago by the end of the week and I'm hoping results will Be back before my app with dr Gorgy next Friday. 

MEET UP DATES:

Saturday 17th Feb 
Saturday 24th Feb 
Saturday 10th march 
Saturday 17th March 

4 dates...hopefully we can find one we all can do xx


----------



## Northern

I can do 17th Feb or 10th March   

Hopefully we can find one that works for all of us, well done for organising Carrie!x 

Yay kjade well done for booking your hols, that sounds wonderful....maybe we should plan the meet up in Fuerteventura?!


----------



## apples2014

Dear Carrie, Kjade, Mrs C, my lovely Northern, Bettyville, Bippy and Aley, Happy New Year!

Please can I join back in posting with you? I posted a few times last summer but I've been in a flap/miserable/flat/denial/head in sand/too upset to be on here much if I am honest and I've not even been reading much on FF for the last few months. 

I am sat at my kitchen table, supposed to be working but am also getting ready to go and have a lining scan soon as not sure what is going on with me at the moment.

I'm almost 4 years into IVF now (trying much longer but Feb is my 4 years of IVF, will I get a cake?).
We was very stubborn about OE and OS until around 19 months ago when we decided to move onto double frozen donated embies, I was a poor responder and I tried lots of stimms, low stimms, Penny's clomid and natural IVF too and DH is very challenged so after Serum and Gennet and a UK clinic advising donor was for us we moved on and we are really cool with this (it's so personal but once we made the decision it was then very much okay but I have no regrets for how long we tried for us first).

But I honestly am desperate for some support. We are FIVE cycles into FET donated embies. I have had three chemicals and two flat BFN's. Clearly something is wrong but I don't know what to do?

I don't want to bore you all and type it all out but I had a pre receptive ERA result and was told to take extra progesterone. This resulted in 1st chemical in summer 2016 (second donor embie attempt) then a flat NO.

I saw Prof Brosen's in Coventry and it's a long story but he re tested my ERA several times with high doses of progrestone but in the mock cycles where I took the estofem/progonova (the little blue pills for a medicated FET) I was non responsive which means my uterus is quite literally a hostile place for an embie to be in!
But on two other occasions I had previously had the Coventry biopsy without being in a mock cycle (no blue pills just the biopsy taken 7 tp 10 days after ovulating) I was receptive.

I showed all this evidence to my clinic (who I do like and I've been with a few, am with Gennet in Prague) in the summer after I had a chemical in April 2017 and they convinced us we should stick with the medicated path as it has higher success rates, we caved and agreed and tried again in August 2017 with a medicated FET and another chemical.

This literally has floored me and I've done nothing since. 

But I spoke to Prof Brosen's who suggests 'trying' a natural FET. I spoke to my Gennet Consultant in October and he feels if I want to try a natural FET he will not stop that and has sent me a protocol for a natural FET but keeps repeating it is not his top choice and he literally rejects any information from anywhere else.

After so many transfers I also found out from Prof Brosen's in April 2017 that I had tested positive for CD138 which is some infection thingie and means I need to take antibiotics for one week in lead up to ET. I then recalled when I saw Penny in 2015 I had tested negative for hidden C but had tested with some evidence of bacteria load (which I think is similar to the CD138 thing) these infections also mess up implantation so I had high dose of antib's with Penny too, but that was with a natural OE cycle with very damaged DH sperm- anyway! back to more recent. I took the anti's in April 2017 before the transfer and had the chemical and during the last biopsy I had in Coventry in June 2017 all signs of the CD 138 infection thing had gone, but just to be sure I had anti'b's again before the next chemical in August 2017.

I had a Penny hysto in Athens in 2015 all clear and I had another one over a year later at City Fertility in London in 2016 and that was also all clear and they questioned why I had wanted to repeat it.

No one has ever let me explore immunes out of all the clinics I am at but last January I insisted and flew to Prague for basic immunes so T Alfa all that stuff- it all came back in range and no issues.

I am MRFTH Hetro and have 40 units of clexane and a blood consultant at local general hospital discharged me last summer after seeing me for almost 2 years and has me on 5 mg of folic acid (I am not the one that flolate is required instead but she wants me on prescription strength as my dad died unexpected of a blood clot at 63 so I need to be in high folic acid to keep my protein serum in check and the clexane).

I took this long break to feel better and was all geared up for trying again in January or Feb. I've had some cold virus thingie on and off since end of November (I am not usually unwell either so it's been really annoying) I went through a lot of stress having to re apply for a job (all done now and is okay) but now it is cycle day 53 and super reliable no worries period has not showed up and I am so worried.

I did a test last week and of course no miracle news there. I think perhaps I have been too sad or stressed or have a cyst so Gennet has suggested I go for a scan so I am doing that at lunch time.

Does any one have any thoughts? wisdom? advice?
Kjade how was your experience of Locus M in Athens? Do you think I should have my KIR receptors checked?
I will go and see Prof Brosen's for a scratch and re test of the biopsy as there is no charge so was planning on doing that this cycle but obvs no period has come grrr! But when that is resolved I will go.

I cannot afford Dr Gorgy as we are 4 years into this and immunes last year was all okay but do Locus M prescribe if you need anything? I find myself going from being a really confident, keep at it, keep going, find a solution person to a quite literally flat snail and I don't know what to think or do.

We have two perfect quality embies in the freezer in Prague for us, the match is very good, both the donors have green eyes, I've found myself humming an old Cold Play song called Green Eyes a few times and laughing at myself. I am not without hope but to go back and try for the 5th time of donor embies and .....

This is so long, am so sorry. 

Literally any advice is welcome.

We are going to do the natural FET even if our clinic don't love it, but first I need my period back and I think I also need more of a plan but am really lost and I feel so rubbish, any advice would be so greatly received.

Many thanks

Apples xx

should add lots and lots of very nice ladies I met through the gennet thread on here are now with their babies from frozen donated embies or are pregnant and I do not have any concerns about the quality of the lab in my clinic, the success rate is high. I do however doubt my womb lining as even though it's always around 8 or 9 something and triple and looks 'lovely' and 'wonderful' as the scanner lady always says there is clearly something funky. Any thoughts at all are so welcome? Am so fed up! xxx


----------



## K jade

17th Feb good with me x

hi apples hun,  so glad to hear that Gennet agreed to do natural FET for you! well done for pushing for that. 
that's beyond frustrating that AF has now decided to do a no show . 
can you maybe ask your GP for norethistone to get things going again? don't give up as you may have cracked something here xx


----------



## Angedelight

Hi ladies

I can do both March dates, on hols in Feb.

Hi Apples. Welcome back. What a journey. I think it's easy to think donor will be the answer- it seems to work for so many first time. Then when it fails it's so hard. I think you should do something different and a natural FET could be it?. Locus Medicus don't prescribe- they might if you consult with them and have tests, I just have the tests done with them. I'm planning to see Dr G, I'm trying to get all the tests done he would suggest through LM to keep costs done so just pay for consultation with him. I think we all know how you feel where you feel like this all sucks the life out of you. February will be 5 years since my very first cycle in 2013. We did have a 2 year break but still. Totally get the time thing.

Hope everyone else is doing ok. Loving all the holiday plans!.

I'm sure I've missed my ovulation, absolutely nothing this month. Think I started testing too late on CD13. Feel like period is on it's way so obviously having a shorter cycle. Typical!. 

X


----------



## K jade

Tbh I can probably do all those dates it's just the March ones I might be in 2ww if up coming cycle goes to plan. 
But even if I am ill defo try come and not be a Debbie downer, and anyway knowing my luck this next cycle will probs be delayed anyway xx


----------



## Carrie88

Awwww kjade yes defo please come if you're in the 2ww. I should be as well  hopefully. Maybe lol.

Ok so March 10th is looking the best? Xx

Apples - gosh you've certainly tried a lot. Different methods I wouldn't even of thought of. I would definetly try a natural transfer if your periods are normally ok? Some people don't respond well to the medication xx


----------



## K jade

Defo will do carrie. You'll all just have to excuse the slapped  ar$e face LOL

Just need a mammoth moan while I catch 5 minutes and before I start cooking tea
DP is such a pain in the backside when it comes to all this
and  hates the most miniscule smidgen of involvement he has to have which basically consists of accompanying me to the clinic this Thursday to sign the hfea paperwork so I can start my next cycle .he moans about how he cannot afford the time off work (absolute b0ll0ck $) . He wants me to just get on with it alone as he's sensitive about the whole ds thing.
All in all he makes me more stressed about everything and he's starting to become a complete hindrance to the process. 
Does anyone else struggle with their dh not being on board? 

In all honesty I do wish I was cycling abroad so we could avoid the whole hfea beaurocracy and I could just get on with it on my own which is what I basically do now anyway x


----------



## Carrie88

Don't worry - so will I be. That date is gonna be around test day so I may need picking up or sambuca shots thrust in my hand if it's a bfn.
How awful now we just expect the worst 

Oh kjade I am exactly the same with mark.
When Gorgy said we need a witness to watch us sign the hfea form he proper kicked off.

And then when I arranged it at the gp for mid morning he told me to cancel it and rearrange it for the evening as he wasn't going to take time off work and they can work around him. 
Then he was saying I may just sign it - why witness it? I then had to explain if we didn't we wouldn't be transferring!! 
He moans every time we go to London.
Every. Single. Time. 
Does my head in xx


----------



## Northern

Aw kjade I'm sorry about your dh not being helpful! Moan away, really their part in the whole thing is so minimal and we work so bloody hard to sort it all out that it's all the more annoying when they act like that. 

We're similar here - having decided we'd like to look into adoption I'm now trying to see everything from a social worker's point of view and the way our household would look to them. Tonight dp has had a massive go at his 18 yr old son for using 2 chopping board and 3 knives while making his tea. Really, 2 chopping boards it's hardly the end of world. These kind of rows could have a massive impact on the way son describes his father/son relationship, and I really don't want to end up childless because of 2 frigging chopping boards!! 

Glad I'm not the only one with a partner who can be less than helpful at times! Love him dearly, but really! 

Sambuca shots all round on our meet-up!


----------



## Carrie88

Northern I'm the same.
We have a bar and I've told Mark we need to get rid of it if a social worker comes around as we look like alcoholics!! Xx


----------



## Angedelight

So are we definitely doing 10th March?
I'm so looking forward to putting faces to names, learning real names and meeting my closest infertility confidantes!! I say far more to all you than to anyone in real life! 
X


----------



## fifibell

Yes kjade my dh. and l have had a few rows particularly about him going on big nights out around the time we"re getting ready for treatment. While I'd be living like a saint eating healthy not drinking and he'd just continue on like nothing was happening used to drive me mental.

I'd very much like to try and come to the meet up I'll be travelling up from London. It would be nice to meet you guys for real.

We are also thinking about adoption but bar  emailing some agencies we've not done much. I think we need to attend some of the information evenings to get a  better idea of what to expect.

Hope everyone is making it through January  and not suffering too much from the post Christmas back to work blues😉


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## Carrie88

Yup defo 10th march!! 
Aww yes fifibell please come if you can - everyone is travelling to the midlands as everyone is either up north, down south or in Wales so it's fair to everyone. It would be lovely to meet you. 
Like I say I've never been to Birmingham so don't know my surroundings lol but when I've been to a couple of meet ups before ive been to places like revolution, you know where there's a lot of general Choice? 
So I could try book there? 
Could book it for about 1pm? Xx


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## Carrie88

Ok I've just worked out im defo going to be at the end of my 2ww when meeting up but also my 2ww on my 30th birthday the week before. Wahhhh!!!


----------



## K jade

Ladies you don't know how good it is to hear that 
I really thought it was just my DH and everyone else's comes everywhere and holds their hand ! clearly I was very  wrong

Carrie that made me chuckle as that sounds EXACTLY like my DH! 
Moans at every single appointment. every. single. one. Little admin things like what you described he will  do all he can to have a tantrum and make a huge deal of them. 
looking at my diary I will also be end of 2ww if things go to plan!

Northern I can just imagine the rows between a father than their teenage son.

yes 1.00pm sounds good xx


----------



## Northern

Haha loving the stories of dh's, I'm so glad it's not just me! 

10th March hooray   x


----------



## Angedelight

Oh we nearly split up over it all! Back in 2014 pre cycle there I was detoxing, being an absolute saint. We went to SIL's 30th birthday a week before EC with OE/OS. I drank soda water and pretended it was vodka soda as No one knew. DH decided it was acceptable for him to drink 4 pints and stay out till 4am. That's just one example! I could have punched him. I felt like I went through that one on my own completely. That was a bad year with one thing and another and I wanted to leave him. When I said I wanted to move away if he said No I'd have gone without him!

Thankfully he's turned a corner, the move was what we needed and sorted us right out and he's been great every since- better than me on the detoxing and eating well front! I still sort everything cycle wise, he will go to appointments but is clueless as to what I'm talking about and just sits there. 

Thank god we are all so organised!

X


----------



## bippy11

Hi Ladies, 

yikes I can't keep up now Im back to work! I don't have a smart phone with internet and I don't use fertility websites at work for fear of colleagues seeing.. so Im sorry if I have missed anything, I do try to keep up. 

Im not sure I should comment too much on the DH thing, because I don't want to speak out of turn, but let's just say I really think that they should start being a bit more supportive for you grrr   you are in this together. 

MrsC glad your DH has turned a corner and is being supportive now. 

Apples Im sorry to hear about your difficult journey. I think it sounds like a good idea to try a natural FET. x

I will get my train booked for 10th March - yippee will be so good to meet you all


----------



## Carrie88

Ok so these are the ladies coming:

10th March
Birmingham 

Me
Kjade
Mrs C 
Northern 
Bippy 
Fifibell - are you in? Xx

Anyone else please let me know asap? 
I'm gonna book it next week so we can then all book our train tickets.


----------



## fifibell

Yes count me in!


----------



## K jade

Fab!
and I had treatment planning yesterday and I wont be on 2ww then as down regging will be for longer than I thought! 

DH also did really well yesterday in the clinic. didn't moan while we waited and was chatty and polite with the nurse. 
xx


----------



## bippy11

yey I booked my tickets  I don't know Birmingham either, but would suggest we try to find somewhere relatively near the station to maximise our time together. 

KJade great that you had a good planning meeting yesterday and DH behaved   what does your plan look like? 

I really hope we will be able to get going in March. I know that before my body took a long time to settle after miscarriage, but the only way I feel I can cope with it now is to just think that we will be able to start again in March and that will be the one that finally works! knowing me there's going to be delays etc, but I will have to deal with that as it comes because right now, I just need to think that it's all going to run smoothly and work out. Like some naive first-timer  

I don't think my hormones are settled yet though, still getting headaches and not feeling right and it's now 3.5 weeks after the miscarriage. But headaches aren't as bad as they were initially, so hopefully it's a good sign that hormones are settling, even if slowly slowly. 

Carrie and KJade I have got the details from Locus Medicus for the immune testing and will discuss that at our appointment in a couple of weeks - thanks so much for the tip  

Have a lovely weekend everyone x


----------



## Carrie88

Yup I've looked at revolution and it's a 20 minute walk from Birmingham new street? 
We could always just get a taxi though? Xx

Gosh bippy that's all so tough physically and mentally. Will your hcg levels be 0? Xx


----------



## apples2014

Hello  

Mrs C, Kjade, Carrie, Bippy and Northern thanks for responding to my post had a right old weird week!
I am feeling tres miserable but been to see my nice acupuncture lady today so am feeling small amount less miserable now.

I am grateful for the response as Monday was a complete head  
I went for the scan at Ultra Sound direct as it was day 52 and no sign of my semi regular period. 
It goes like this-

Scanner lady- sweetie are you pregnant? 
Me- erm no, I have infertility and also I did a test a week ago and no.
Scanner lady- oh okay well I want you to go and buy a test and have a blood test too as this looks like you are around 4 weeks pregnant but at the time we could also not rule out a pregnancy in an unknown location as it's very early.
Me- erm what?
Scanner Lady- can you prop your bum up with your fists so I can look around more, oh okay so there is 8 follicles, you ovulated from your right ovary last and this really seems like a pregnancy, but I need you to do a test, does this hurt?
Me- as she is pushing scanner to left and right, no it's not lovely but it does not hurt but lady I promise I am not pregnant, what is my lining? Can this black blob on the scan not be a cyst or a polp or something?
Scanner lady- sweetie no, this is your lining and the (she points to black blob) so it's not possible to have a cyst in here, your lining is 17mm
Me- please give me an alternative to pregnancy, am I okay? it is not a pregnancy.
Scanner Lady- could be hyperplasia?
Me- small yelp out, what is that?
Scanner lady- get dressed, it could be a build up of hormones.

She then hugged me, gave me a report and photograph and told me I would be okay, she was a very nice lady but clearly I left feeling, well honestly I didn't feel anything I just went to Boots, brought 3 for 2 First Responses and went home. Apples can always wee, Apples could not wee and managed a drip that didn't really get on the stick (you would think after almost 5.5 years of trying for a baby I could wee on a stick) so I had a cup of tea and a water and 3 hours later was busting and managed to do the job and it was negative.

I have a IVF warrior friend whom I met whilst we was both laying down having pre and post embryo transfer acupuncture in Greece in 2015, she and I have the same name and our husbands have the same name, needless to say we've stayed in touch, after more then 10 ET's she has a 7 month old little girl now but she is a nurse so we spoke and she told me to go for a HCG.
So I get up super early Tuesday, travel up to Farringdon (it's not that far I live in SE London) to Gennet's London sister clinic, hand over £35 and meet the most friendly, excitable nurse for a HCG. I am not pregnant I keep saying, she just smiles.

She is very sorry and less smiley sounding when she calls me at 3pm to confirm I am not pregnant. I await instructions from Gennet as they were going to suggest a dose of progesterone injections that I have here to bring on the massively over due period but the period arrives later that afternoon anyway, day 53.
All 17mm of it! Since Tuesday and I've been cramping and it's been literally a double period. Really not any fun at all. 

Had a skype with Gennet yesterday at 7am, Northern it was our grumpy Dr M (bless him) he is totally none fussed, tells me to see my GP and request to see a gynaecologist if I want to! I am not pre meno as I have 8 follicles still, could have a biopsy to check the lining for hyperplasia but he is not sure it is this (this is a build up of hormones like oestrogen when you've had a weird cycle and not enough progesterone and is attached to pre and post meno women and it's a pain). It wasn't really very useful to speak to him as he got in once again about how we can progress with the natural FET if we want but he still thinks we should do a medicated one as results higher with medicated. I do not even have the energy to walk him back through - I'VE REPEATED THE ERA, STILL NON RECECPTIVE, 2 MORE CHEMICALS SINCE THIS, I'M BROKEN, PROF BROSEN'S EVIDENCE THAT I AM RECEPTIVE ON THE NAT CYCLE, I AM NOT ON THE ERA DUMMY CYCLE. 

Just said 'thanks, see you soon, have a nice weekend'. I am seeing my GP on Monday, I don't know if she will refer me but I can ask, I've not had any ivf transfers since August so these funny changes to my cycle since the chemical I think are hormones, stress, nasty cold virus that loves me and doesn't go away. Who knows!         
I feel a bit bonkers today though! This week has been CRAZY! I am okay but it's been so draining!

A few people who know have been like, oh you must have hoped! But I really didn't, I knew I wasn't but it's been a long week.

Evil period is slowing down now.

But I am popping on here to say thanks so much. I am going to approach another clinic for a chat about how they would treat me as I would like some reassurance (or not) that natural FET is the way to go, but Reprofit emailed back and said that is how they would treat me, natural FET. I am going to approach the Locus Med peeps too so thanks again.

Does anyone else ever feel, what are we doing? I am not ready to move on as yet but this is just so hard!
I had imagined I would go to Coventry this month for a scratch and have ET with the two green eyes embies in the deep freeze in Prague in Feb' but now maybe just have to see what happens and see if I get back to 'normal'. Anyway, this is my update. 

 Was just looking for an emoji to end my waffle with, found a daisy but has anyone noticed there is a pumpkin smoking a ***? what is that for? ha ha ha  
Weird!

I started following this really helpful IVF thing on Insta, I don't have a IVF insta account, mine is my friends, family, my cat and holidays but my friend put me onto this one and it's called IVFbabble, they are the ladies that have designed these really cute Pineapple pins for raising fertility awareness and they share lots of information. I do not talk about my infertility to most but I love pineapples and wanted one and they sell them on Amazon, they are really cute and mine arrived today so that is nice.

Okay that is officially the end of talking about myself, but really, really, really thank you. 

Kjade, sounds like you have dates almost ready to get going, and a holiday first will be amazing, we have some friends that surf and are currently there and are loving it, plus sunshine is magical, excited for you. Hope you get your results back soon.

Carrie, thanks for the advice, your post about a bar made me chuckle a lot, I don't mention this often on here but I am a advanced practitioner social worker! We have a lot of booze here at home too! I think it is how often you drink from your bar, rather than having a bar that will be assessed but I know what you mean. If they was coming here, even though I have a good rough idea of where they would start with an assessment I would hovering my cat (to catch all her fur, not to actually hoover her) and would be putting the gin to the back of a kitchen cupboard ha ha, lots of love and hope you get your results soon!

Northern, hope chopping board gate is resolved and you guys are well, have you heard anymore about an information evening re adoption, thinking of you, thanks for your lovely PM to babe xx

Mrs C also thanks for the lovely words, if you checked on day 13 it's possible you just missed ovulation maybe, I have to use those internet cheapie things to check mine when am preparing to go see Prof Brosen's in Coventry and they are tricky little things. But I caught mine on day 12 and nothing on day 13 before. 

Hi to Fifibell, Bippy hope you are okay and are keeping well lovely xx

I would love to meet you all on 10th March if possible, it's DH's dad's birthday that day but unclear if we have plans, or if I 'need' to be there but Brum is no issue for me and I would travel from London too. But as I don't know when I am having treatment or generally what is happening with DH's dads plans I can't commit at the mo but I will happily hop on a train and invite myself along too if it works out (which I hope it does as I would love to see you all).
Also the 10th March 2014 was the first day I injected myself with an IVF needle after starting my NHS try, it's a fitting date to meet fellow pincushion princesses though ha!

Hope you all have lovely weekends, it is grey and cold but it suits my need for slippers and Netflix so I don't mind.

Lots of love 
Apples xxx


----------



## K jade

Ah apples snap. I'm a social worker too. But I work in third sector as not sure I could  manage the stress of local authority. I've had the same job since leaving uni. I really need to start thinking about jobs in social services but I'm scared to move out of my current job where I'm comfy. But with immune costs eating me whole I really need a better paid job  . 
I'm so sorry about the rollocoster u had this week. U must have rolled your eyes at that daft sonogropher ! 
I can not beleive how stubborn the dr at gennet is being.  
Do u think u might give retprofit a go now ? 
Although gennet have begrudgingly allowed u to do natural FET I wouldn't be happy with their attitude at all. U want their support and confidence so I would perhaps be crossing them off my list 
It would be lovely to see u on the 10th xx


----------



## Carrie88

I can confirm our table is booked!!! 

7 people (apples I've booked you in but just let me know if you can't make it) 
Booked it for 1.15pm on Saturday 10th March so book your tickets ladies!! 
I should defo be near the end of my 2ww so I'll either be on the mocktails or getting so drunk I'll just be ordering vodka sticks to myself (probably the latter) 

Kjade and apples - wow you ladies are super troopers!! I work alongside social workers for the local authority but no Way could I be a SW. 

Kjade - are your results back yet? I'm hoping mine are before my scratch on Friday xx

Apples - gosh my stomach was in my mouth then. I really was hoping and thought they'd be amazing news then and you were pregnant naturally. What a cruel and long winded journey those days were.
I have one of those ivfbable pins and I will be wearing it on the 10th  
I wouldn't bother with gennet. I would definetly be considering reprofit if they're happy to do a natural! What are you thinking now? Xx


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## bippy11

aw apples poor you, what a roller coaster of a week. Hope your period has eased off by now. Was the gp able to refer you today? 

Yes I agree with Carrie - respect for you SWs! I work for an education charity and link in with SWs and I also have a friend who is an SW and it is not for the faint-hearted is it??! 

Carrie thanks for booking table   I really hope you won't be drinking for happy reasons  

I went to see nurse at GP today for a smear test, which I had to put off during last round of treatment. I had checked with them when I booked whether it was ok to have it only 1 month after surgical miscarriage. The receptionist put me on hold for a good while, so I figured she had checked when she told me it would be fine. Anyway the nurse today told me no, it's too soon. Never mind, I will book another appointment after a bit more time. She asked why I had miscarried, so I told her that we don't know but that we have been having fertility treatment for 4.5 years. At which point she started telling me about how I need to relax because my body otherwise won't be able to get pregnant and how my husband and I need to start just enjoying sex - oh - and when we have had sex, not to get up too quickly afterwards. Seriously!!!! A nurse?? I mean where do I start?? She then told me that I will get pregnant this year and it will be twins, she is sure of it. I politely told her that the reason we are having treatment is a medical issue and next time we are not transferring two embryos - and then I left. Honestly! She didn't mean bad, but she had absolutely no idea of my situation, what I have been through or why I need treatment - for all she knew I could have been in a same-sex couple or my tubes could have been blocked or my husband could have had no sperm or there could be a genetic hereditary issue. But thank you - if only I had known that all I needed to do was to relax and enjoy sex, I wouldn't have had to spend the last 5.5 years of my life trying to get pregnant and spend 10s of thousands of pounds or go through repeated bitter disappointments and heartbreaks! I know these are standard things people say, but it just got to me today as it came from a nurse and I wasn't in the mood to talk to an insensitive clueless stranger about it! Rant over!   xxx


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## K jade

Bippy I'll try not to rant too much but frankly that's disgusting behaviour and personally I would make a complaint about that nurse.  Would she tell a cancer patient to relax and enjoy life then their cancer would magically dissappear? No. I wouldn't have thought so
It's deplorable the way us IF patients are treated.  Nothing but ignorance and discrimination on every corner 
X


----------



## Angedelight

OMG Bippy, the last smear I went for was like that! I said I'd had recent unsuccessful fertility treatment and the nurse said her daughter was trying for 5 years, had a smear test and wham got pregnant. Her words:  'It must have opened her up'. I was speechless!. And she's medically trained??. 
Yours ought to go and work behind s crystal ball it sounds like! 
Anyone who says 'just relax' does my head in. And 'just think positively' 👊

Apples, what a roller coaster. And so damn typical that the period shows up after having to go through all that. If my period is ever late I know that if I wee on an expensive stick it'll come seconds afterwards. Hope you're ok. Glad you've got some options to pursue.

Carrie thanks for sorting table. I'm sure I'll be drinking as done absolutely nothing about prepping for the FET. I must have missed my ovulation as had a 27 day cycle. Hoping I can squeeze the biopsy in before our holiday.

KJade glad DH was good at the appointment.

Hope everyone else is doing ok.

A few of us all work in similar fields, I'm a psychiatric nurse.

X


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## K jade

Carrie great news! Well done. I need to book my train. And lets hope its mocktails for u. 
No no tnfa results at all.  . Really getting impatient now I need them back . I need to know what's happening. Am I DRing in 3 weeks or am I doing more humira. .??

MrsC I'm actually fearful when I hear about some so -called medical professionals out there who could at any point  have  our lives in their hands.  

Seems like a lot of us are in health and social care how interesting!


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## Carrie88

I know that is weird we all seem quite social services based.
Mrs C - I'm sooo jealous of your job. I did a psychology degree and should of gone into something specific but by the end of uni I was so fed up I just wanted out xx

Argh kjade I can't believe you've not got your results yet. Have you called up to check? Oh this doesn't bode well for mine arriving before I see Gorgy on Friday xx

Bippy - wow I can't believe what I've read. So sorry you had to experience that. I know she was trying to be nice and didn't mean anything by it but wow I can not believe the insensitivity of that nurse, that's shocking xx


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## Aley

Hi girlies!

I've been awol lately and missed a lot. I hope everyone is ok. So nice to hear you'll meet up, I would really love to see all of you, I am sure you'll have a great time together.

Mrs-C, Bippy, I have my own story with the last GP nurse that did my smear suggesting I should get checked out by a gyne after I was saying that sometimes my cycles have been irregular but probably just due to the IVF failing and then being on so many drugs, especially hormones..and she was "Yeah, just have that checked out!" very serious without even aknowledging the word IVF, maybe she didn't even know what it means   I completly agree that even medical professionals don't always know how to deal with if patients and we are all very raw from this that everything hurts. Can you imagine the woman telling me that I need to relax and have sex? Yeah, sure!  

Carrie, darling, how are you feeling? You look well entertained and busy, I hope this takes your mind away from things. 

KJade, still waiting on the immune to come back? I bet you're excited to start again.

Apples, you've been through so much. Good luck with your next FET. I was told once that I have a very thick lining and suspected hyperplasia but that was in my very early 20s...many gyne have seen my uterus then, I've seen an endocrinologist and I have been told everything from fibroids to hyperplasia to septum  but then nothing really was confirmed and had 2 saline sonographies so far to be told that I have a normal uterine cavity. I think that a lot has to do with the eye and the expertise of whoever is doing the scan, two eyes don't always see the same thing and unfortunately some people are better then others. 

Northen, good luck with the adoption. It's a hard road but sure worthed if that's what you decide is best.  

I am sorry if I missed people. Big hugs to everyone.

Updates from me, I guess just being in tww and this time trying to enjoy it. Promised to myself I wont test early. Day 4 today, let's see how it goes!


----------



## Northern

Omg Bippy, I can't believe what that nurse said to you!!!! Honestly, I'd be writing a fairly detailed letter/email to the clinic describing what happened - you shouldn't have to point out to a medical professional that that's a completely inappropriate way to talk, but nor should you or any of us suffering infertility have to put up with cr*p like that.  Honestly, what a load of  

Ha I think I'm the only one not in social services! I work in an office (a nice one though  ) 

Apples, wow what a rollercoaster, honestly I was gripped reading that and even I thought omg what if it's a miracle pregnancy?!  You handled it so well, glad you got checked out but what an exhausting week! Hope it doesn't interfere with planning treatment.  I kind of agree with the others - I know the next cycle at Gennet is free but (and fingers crossed it will) if it doesn't work then it might be time to try another doctor who is willing to try other things or take Brosen's advice.  I have every belief that Dr M is a good doctor but if things don't work he doesn't get as frustrated about it as I would like him to! Might just spur him on to try and solve the problem instead of shrugging it off in his usual manner! 
I really hope you can make it on the 10th xxx

Carrie thanks for booking the table, eeek I'm so looking forward to it, can't wait to meet you all! 

Kjade hope you're not waiting much longer for your results! 

Afm we are going to an adoption open evening tomorrow with our local authority.  Not sure what to expect but I think it will be really good for dp to go along and hear more about it first hand, instead of just from me.  We watched Finding Me a Family over Christmas (why didn't they do more episodes??!) and he was really moved by it - made us both feel good about looking more into it - so I think he'll benefit from tomorrow a lot. 

Aley I crossed posts with you - wow didn't realise you were on tww, how did transfer go? Was it a good embryo? Everything crossed for you!! 

Xxx


----------



## K jade

Ladies they are down from 35.5 To 28.5
Hardly the sky  dive I was hoping for....
Do I need more HUMIRA? 
Is there a chance that they are still on their way down therefore could still be dropping?
As Dr G tests 10 days after 2nd injection whereas argc leave it 2 weeks


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## Aley

Thank you Northern! I wasn’t too vocal about my transfer here or in general. It’s my last frozen embryo, the last out of a batch that never gave me a pregnancy. The quality was good, my clinic doesn’t grade them with numbers or letters they just say good, poor...excellent, which apparently is very rare. So I guess a 5bb since it was expanded. The transfer was perfect, I had a good doctor doing it and I didn’t feel a thing. I don’t know what will be to be honest. I am on steroids and intralipids too so something new. I’ll find out soon I guess. 

We went to one of those adoption sessions last year, is very informative but we got out a bit disappointed. I know that things are very different in England though and you guys are a heterosexual couple so I think everything will be far easier.    Come back and tell us how it went, I hope you’ll enjoy it. 

Kjade, I couldn’t help you with that. Hope it’s good...


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## fifibell

hello ladies,

just wanted to catch up with you all.

I have booked my train ticket to Birmingham looking forward to meeting some of you. cheers Carrie for organizing.

Bippy- it sucks when people make insensitive comments, they assume so much when they haven't got a clue.

Apples- Your having a hell of a time lately, hope things start to get better for you soon

Aley- best of luck with the 2wwk 

and Northern - hope all goes well with the adoption evening.

I've no real news, we have four weddings to attend this year, been getting one save the date card after another!!
been distracted from all things fertility as work has been busy and my niece has come over from Dublin to do an internship and is staying with us.

hope you all have a good week


----------



## bippy11

Hi ladies, thanks, I knew you would be equally disgruntled with my nurse   And you all have your own stories too! Haha, Mrs C yours made me chuckle - 'it opened her up' - I mean really?? That's gotta make it in to the top 10 of most ridiculous things ive heard! The thing is they can be funny in hindsight, but if on the day you are feeling down then it can really get to you. And you're all right and I know I ought to complain and that's what my DH said too, but Im not sure I have the energy to right now. Aley - I know, I thought of you and really felt like just saying, well actually my partner's female so that's not going to work, but I was too chicken to lie.. would have been funny though, just to see her face! 

Aley you're in 2WW!!! everything crossed for you! Promising with a good quality embie and a smooth transfer. I hope the steroids don't disturb your sleeping, I got some quite bad insomnia with them last time, but previous rounds on them haven't been so bad. Where do you live - can you not join our meet up? x

Northern I really hope your adoption evening is helpful for both of you. I still have to watch the second episode of finding me a family. It was so moving. x 

kjade, Im sorry I don't know about humira and tnfa - but surely your Dr will advise you on this? Sorry it hadn't dropped as much as you had hoped for, hopefully you can get going with your cycle soon though. x

fifibell it's good to keep distracted sometimes! I do love weddings, although it always depends on whether they fall during a cycle or not. And also can depend how many babies and parents talking about being parents there are.. But hopefully you'll have a few good ones amongst them! x

Carrie hope your appointment goes well on Friday x


----------



## Aley

Thanks fifibell, I hope you’ll get to enjoy the weddings. Sometimes that can be a good distraction. 

Bippy, thank you! I have to say, the steroids did give me sleepless nights although the last 2 were ok. 
I am in Ireland, my wife is actually english so we do come to visit very often but I have no leave booked for March unfortunately.


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## K jade

northern Best of luck for tonight, im really excited to hear how it goes please keep us posted

aley hope your keeping sane on the 2ww!

I have had to book a telephone follow up with Dr G as I cant make it to London this week . I have a very strong feeling he will recommend more Humira so it will mean that my cycle, which was planned with the clinic last Thursday,  will need to be delayed.
I am supposed to be down regging in 3 weeks.  I will need to phone the nurse and give my reasons for postponing  this cycle. 
does anyone have any ideas what to say to them as to why I'm delaying?
I cant really say Humira / cytokines as its controversial with the NHS 
sorry couldn't resist the little  feedback man! 
xxx


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## apples2014

Hello  

Bippy that is so terrible the nurse spouted that stuff, (can think of worse words than stuff) I mean really! As if we are not going through enough. You handled it very well, but as if you have not been through enough am sorry to hear it. 
I was under a blood consultant until last year to follow up on MRFTH due to my dad and I had to see her every 4 months for 18 months, each time, EACH TIME, she told me .. 'me and my husband could never have children you know, it isn't everything'. You know the power of not saying anything and just giving a look? Well she got a stern Apples look I can tell you! But really a nurse saying this to you guys too, I guess I want to say that it comes from a good place and peeps don't know what to say so they say any old poop that comes into the head but really! It's really thoughtless as if we are not going through enough, grrrrr and rant away! 

And Mrs C 'It might have opened her up' What? honestly GRRRR!

KJade that is wicked about your results, I don't know much but isn't 28 and under good? What you thinking? What happens now? 
I can't believe you are a social worker as well, random babe! I career changed and went back to uni to do a MA almost 8 years ago and my last placement with in the long term safeguarding team and I weirdly liked it there (good team, nice managers, supportive practice, more helping than taking children into care, although that did of course have to happen as well so I had to write adoption reports) My manager knew all about the IVF and she didn't give me any baby cases, she was amazing, but it meant Apples had all the teenagers ha but it was good, I did that for over 5 years, I am in a more semi management role now where I read referrals, consult and give advice so I don't see children and families anymore and with the ongoing pressure of IVF it's better this way, but yah so random that so many of us work in the same field, bonkers in fact  

Fifi that's lovely about wedding invites we have two so far, I love a wedding as I like dancing ha ha 

Carrie how are your plans going? Are you still with Penny? 

Northern lots of love for later, am thinking of you guys. I only know a wee bit about adoption in London babe but here we have heaps of older couples, same sex couples, single lady adopters - to reflect the needs of the children but I know little about outside of smelly London, but am thinking of you so much, exciting xxx

Hi Aley, aw the 2WW, hope you are going well and having lots of nice distractions, scoff some pineapples and keep busy lovely. The 2ww is bonkers, thinking of you so much, I can usually manage until day 9 then I test, but the urge to test early is a strong force, lots of love xx

Hi Bettyville, am I missing anyone? Hi if I am! 

Thanks for the lovely words, I saw my GP on Monday and she is a star, firstly I have a chest infection and she's plonked me on antibiotics so hopefully I can get well now yah! It hurts though so I am in the warm with the cat and watching a lot of Netflix (so many things could be doing but am just trying to not be frustrated and get better).
Truthfully I think the events of last week all caught up with me as I spent the weekend sobbing and feeling very sorry for myself as my consultant on the Skype on Friday was really not very insightful or at all helpful, and me and DH are sticking with the natural FET for sure but it does not feel amaze balls approaching treatment again going against what your consultant suggests so felt a bit poop, plus have a chest infection and didn't realise, I have a wheeze on my chest and sound like an old lady that smoked 20 benson's all her life! Nice! 
But GP has given me paper work for heaps of blood tests to check me out, including checking for nasty things like ovarian tumour (due to blob on scan last week but she does not think anything sinister but she was doing bloods for everything else so chucked that in) she is sending me for another scan to see if it is still there, moved? etc etc and she has made a referral for me to see a gynaecologist as well, so I feel well cared for so that is a relief. No idea how quickly of this comes through, but something is funky since the chemical in August and my regular cycles are not so much now and last week when the period came and was heavy my tummy was rock hard and it really hurt, like something was inflamed, was reading about silent endo ( I say silent as it's never been detected after two hysto's and more ET's than I have fingers) but I decided to step away from Google and just get well and see the gyae and go from there!
We have the two blast's in the freezer at Gennet and this is at no charge, they are a good clinic and very successful and have been very thorough with us until now and so helpful when we wanted to carry on with OE before we moved on, but I think clearly my consultant has a strop on that we went to Coventry and repeated the ERA and he is very strong in his views about medicated FET's !!!!   But I did reach out to Reprofit who sent a brief reply and said they would suggest a natural FET, also my buddy here has a little girl from ivf at The Lister and that was from a natural FET and I've had a reply from Lotus Med about a skype chat too, so I think thanks so much to you guys on here for all the advice as I finally feeling up for checking stuff out and then will go from there!
Better get back to Netflix now ha! 

I checked out trains to Brum and there are some cheap deals but I need to talk with DH, poor guy since my dad died I have literally asked him to come to every birthday, anniversary, ever on my side so that my mum isn't alone so he might be like erm! What? if I say I want to skip his dad's b'day on 10th March, but equally it depends what his dad is wanting to do, also I guess I might have treatment in March too, but it is very much a hope I can come as love to meet you ladies. I was lucky enough to make some amazing girlfriends from Serum almost three years ago and I am weekly contact with them too, it's so nice.

Take care
Apples xxx


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## Northern

Morning ladies  

Thank you all for thinking of me!  Adoption evening was pretty good.  Fairly standard stuff really as I've already done a lot of reading (mostly on here) and have a reasonable idea what to expect from it, but great to hear it in person, and the 2 social workers presenting it were really nice, which helped.  The kind of people we wouldn't mind inviting to our home and being very open with them. They were enthusiastic about foster to adopt as well which is something I'm v interested in. 

It was more useful for dp, who has a lot of positivity for the idea but hasn't done the immersive(!) reading that I have.  We do have a lot of worries about dp's marriage break-down and the trauma that his kids went through as a result of that, so we're sure it won't always be an easy or pleasant process for us.  However, when we got home dp went up and had a chat with his eldest son about it - who, surprisingly, was immediately all for the idea. He thinks adoption is great and thinks it's a great idea.  He also found it HILARIOUS that his dad has had a vasectomy reversal and had to wear a jock-strap for 6 weeks as he had plums the size of melons   (*conversations you never think you'll have!!)

Son has talked to me this morning saying he thinks it's great, that all the rubbish they went through is now behind them and it's time we all moved forwards, he thinks the other two kids would be on board as well etc etc and all in all more positive than I ever could have dreamed.  We hadn't told him about the ivf either but I told him that this morning and he's not bothered at all.  This is a completely different reaction to what he would have had a year ago - even he knows that - and I'm frankly amazed and relieved.  It makes the whole thing possible. 

We need to wait til May as that's 6 months after our last failed cycle, but suddenly this is looking like a very real and very possible way forwards for us.  I'm delighted!!

A long road ahead but maybe this could really happen....... Xxx


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## bippy11

Northern, Im so happy to hear the evening went well for you and also the great reaction from your DHs son! You must be feeling like a weight has been lifted with such a good reaction from him. This could be the start of something very exciting for you   
If we get to adoption I think I will also strongly consider foster to adopt. There is the worry that you wouldn't get to keep the baby, but I think that is a very small chance as they would only remove it if there are very serious concerns that are unlikely to be resolved. 
The time will go quickly for you Im sure as there will be lots of things to prepare etc. I wonder if they could give you any tips on whether there is anything you could be doing or preparing now to help speed up the process once it actually starts. 
So pleased for you xxx


----------



## Angedelight

Ladies help!

I started using the clear blue ovulation sticks today on day 9. It shows a non flashing smiley face which on reading the instructions means it's peak fertility. Says do not test again. Last month I started testing on day 12- a day later than recommended and had nothing but had a slightly shorter cycle at 27 days. So is this it??. Shall I contact Coventry and get booked in?. Is day 9 not really early??. Maybe this is where we have gone wrong all these years, I've always gone by period tracker which says around day 16! 😂😂 My cycles are usually 30 days but sometimes 27 or 32.

X


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## Carrie88

Hello ladies!! 

MrsC - I always get confused with the clear blue!! I thought a flashing one means ovulation? Or are they different ones? I would test again this afternoon as I normally catch my surge in an afternoon or evening. I know when I'm ovulating though as I get pains. Do you? So if you're ovulating on cd9 it means you're going to have a 23 day cycle which is quite short? I would test again this afternoon - get some ones with the lines on it - the cheaper ones that where the test line has to match the control line and see what that looks like. Then report back haha!! Xx


Northern - that's so amazing it went well. I actually smiled reading that and you seem really at peace with everything. What a great reaction from DH son as well - that means a lot doesn't it? That's great they only told you 6 months as well. They told me 12 months with the agency I called but that seems too long to wait xx


Bippy - how are you feeling lovely? Xx

Aley - over half way there now!! Hope you've surviving the dreaded 2ww ok. I've been thinking of you xx


Kjade - I think he'll accept that and let you cycle. My friends were 29 and he said they were ok. I've seen a few times with humira people's levels not dropping at all or only dropping a bit. It doesn't seem very good for the amount people pay? 
I've had my levels back and they are 27.6. They were 17 in May last year but I knew it was an inaccurate reading as I was still on steroids.
If dr Gorgy does want you to do another one - he knows best and what he wants - to delay it I would just say something like you've got a stressful month coming up in work and wish to delay it until the month is over xx


Apples - wow you are so brave. Whenever I call the safeguarding team to trigger something - normally only low level thank god - I always say gosh I could never work in that team.
So sorry to hear about your chest infection and I hope your antibiotics have kicked in now.
You've got a lot to think about and trying to decide the next step is hard so I'm not surprised you feel overwhelmed. 
It's awful going against your consultant as well but I'm sorry sometimes they don't know best. Yes medicated might be amazing and work for 99% of ladies but what if you're the 1%? 
Follow your gut lovely!!! Xx
I'm not with Penny, I just went there for a hysto.
I was with guys for pgd and then moved my embryos to dr Gorgy xx

Speaking of which I am seeing him today for my scratch and to challenge him about either doing a natural FET or doing a medicated one with tamoxifen or viagra. So that will be fun!! 
I've packed my codiene for the scratch ha!! 
I've also booked my train tickets for our meet up 
I'm getting into new street at 12.15 and my train back is 6pm - looking forward to meeting you all xx


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## Angedelight

Carrie I think that's the monitor. These are the digital ovulation tests where you put a strip in each day and you get 10 and then dispose of it after using it. It's definetely peak fertility. It won't even let me test again tomorrow as once you hit peak it stays like that for 48 hours. I've got a cheapy strip, I'll try that later. I really don't think hitting peak fertility on day 9 is good news but at least we already know I'm defective 😂
Good luck for your scratch today. And gettting the next transfer protocol you want.

Northern- so good to hear moving forward is making you feel positive. I've read of so many ladies who say enough is enough with IVF and start thinking about adoption or saying that's it- they all describe feeling lighter. IVF cycles are literally so draining. So great that your step son is on board too. And you have plenty of social workers on here to consult for some inside advice too!. 

Apples- hope you're feeling better. I'm not surprised that week caught up with you, what a roller coaster. Sounds like you have a great GP which always helps. Really hope you can come in March.

KJade- at least they're coming down!. That's good. Hope your consultation goes ok. I think Carries idea of stressful work period coming up is good. Hopefully you can just go ahead as planned.

Aley- hope the 2ww isn't driving you mad. Are you working?. Hold out on those tests! Keeping everything crossed for you.

Bippy- hope you're doing ok. Did you get your reduced hours sorted?. Do you know what tests you want done at Locus Medicus?. I need to send off a load of blood to them soon, they're so good and so much cheaper then over here.

Fifibell- I do love a good wedding! Better wedding invites dropping through the letter box than birth announcements!. Hope your niece is settling in. I've got my brother coming to live with us for a few months which will be great, he's so much fun and think it will be really good for me. Him and DH get on well too.

Right I'll do the cheapy ovulation test and see what it says. At least if it's right I can get a biopsy in well before our holiday. I'd like to do the transfer around March if possible.

I get free rail travel with DHs job so can jump on any train. I'll try and get one that gets in similar times so we can walk/ share taxis together.

X


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## K jade

Just a quickie as on my phone :

Northern so excited to read your update! And your SS sounds completely on board which is great. Cannot wait for u to start the process. U could do some reading to make time go quicker. Adoption diary by Maria James is supposed to be good  .

Carrie what times your appointment?  I have a telephone one with him today! I wander if I'm after you...actually FGA just called wanting to know if I can phone at 4.00 not 2.30.
I agree I really thought the mighty Humira would get them down more that 7!! Good to know he accepted your friends result of 29 though. Let us know what G says 

MrsC I ovulate very early too. Sometimes day 8! Weirdly since treating my immunes though cycles have become more regular. 

Thanks all for your advice regarding what to say to clinic. That's an excellent suggestion .I will use that reason if I need to delay xx


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## Carrie88

Hahaha my app is at 3pm so maybe that's why they've postponed it to 4pm? In case your call over runs into my 3pm slot? 

I'm not bothered - my train back isn't till 8pm. 
Shame you didn't know that you could of said oh don't worry 2.30pm will be fine, I've spoken to caroline and she said she didn't mind haha xx

PS: I'll try not to over run or put him in a bad mood. It depends if he gives me what I want lol 

MrsC - gotcha. Yes I know which one you're using now. I'd defo try with a cheapie opk this afternoon and if that's positive then call Coventry  xx


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## Angedelight

I couldn't wait and used a cheapy stick! Nothing. I've since been to Boots and bought another monitor just to double check tomorrow morning as I can't use my other one now as it keeps that reading on for 48 hours so you can't retest! I'm sure the clear blue is right and I think it detects the surge, not the actual ovulation so I suppose technically I'm yet to ovulate?! Just want to make sure I get it all right for the biopsy.

Good luck with Dr G today KJade and Carrie.

X


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## K jade

Carrie that's hilarious! Poor DrG. 
having u then me in one afternoon. he's probably thinking what the hell have I let myself in for!

yes that's right mrsC it detects the surge. not OV itself I believe. I _think _ OV occurs 24- 48 hours afterwards

xx


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## Carrie88

COULDNT HAVE THE ****ING SCRATCH!!!
Even though I'm cd20 because it needs to be a week before your period and my cycles are 35 days so I need to come back next week. 
When I booked it did the clinic not think to ask me what length my cycles are? 
So a waste of an £80 train ticket. I need to spend another £80 next Friday plus cancel my overtime in work. 
I'm so angry I keep having to re type words. 
I'm so ****ing ****ed off.

In other news he scanned me (and has charged me a nice £170 in the process) to tell me I've already ovulated this month - he showed me the follicle I've ovulated from) but my lining is only 6mm so way too thin for a natural transfer. He said it should be an 8mm minimum plus at the point I am in my cycle. 
He has agreed to give me tamoxifen but he wasn't happy about it. 
Still a waste of a ****ing journey though- it's not like I live in bloody London!!!

Copied and pasted from my instagram as I'm too mad to type it out again.


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## Carrie88

And the word loving isn't loving. It's been filtered here and the word I've actually typed rhymes with ducking....


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## Northern

Oh God Carrie that’s ridiculous!!!!

This is the kind of thing that winds me up the most - they’ll tell you anything then act like they’re surprised we’re annoyed when these little ‘details’ turn up at the last minute which miraculously change everything - as though we all have extra hundreds of pounds lying around to rearrange and repeat stuff, and it’s ok to rearrange our lives yet again. 

I have a theory that ALL clinics are completely baffled by cycles that are not 28 days and regular. I’m sure it must play a big part in when we’re most fertile and surely the whole cycle should be planned round that. But all I’ve ever heard is ‘oh no, the drugs overtake all of that so cycle length doesn’t really matter.’ I don’t believe that for a second. If it makes a difference for your scratch (which incidentally Gennet didn’t think it did) then surely it must make a difference with your lining too, ie it may be thicker later in your cycle compared to someone on 28 days?? 

I’m so frustrated for you!! You deserve a great big glass of wine tonight hun xx


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## K jade

OMG carrie what a nightmare ! your right  they should have checked before you made your way down there. 
They forget that people don't live in London as they have asked me before to just pop back for something , even though I live 200 miles away !
and don't worry we are all with you on the swearing. bad bad day for you. get home and have a big glass of wine. or maybe even one on the train?
ivf is like a black hole money wise and so much is wasted. sometimes you have to shut your eyes and ears to it otherwise it freaks you out. tell yourself its only numbers in a imaginary  bank account that goes up and down. or mostly down!

ive just finished with him. he was pleased with my result so no more humira. just clexane  and 1 intralipid drip. xx


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## K jade

Northern said:


> I have a theory that ALL clinics are completely baffled by cycles that are not 28 days and regular. I'm sure it must play a bit part in when we're most fertile and surely the whole cycle should be planned round that. But all I've ever heard is 'oh no, the drugs overtake all of that so cycle length doesn't really matter.' I don't believe that for a second. If it makes a difference for your scratch (which incidentally Gennet didn't think it did) then surely it must make a difference with your lining too, ie it may be thicker later in your cycle compared to someone on 28 days??


totally totally agree with that.


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## apples2014

Aw Carrie that’s really [email protected]

I think wine on train is very much needed! Poor you that’s so pants. 
I’ve a couple of buddies that have been to Dr G, he’s not cheap ah! But like Jade says it’s like a black hole but I’m really frustrated for you babe. Hope you can find a decent train deal for when you have to come back to the smoke again! 

Kjade really pleased all going okay there, that’s good. Hurrah. 

Northern your post made me happy, what a lovely start. 
Mrs C I used to have that clear blue digital thing but it used to confuse me as it wasn’t always what I thought. I just have the amazon cheapie thingie now (I only use them to test for ovulation for when I’m going to Coventry for biosiy/ scratch) but I do recommend the internet ones and it does usually show better in the afternoon. I second that. 

Hi ya Bippy and Aley (how you doing) and Fi

Bored here. Still with chest infection. But I went for the blood tests that GP suggested I go to today. The ones to check out thromb and prolactin and vitam D and thyroid and erm ovarian tumour (which am sure I don’t have but after the scan last week needs to be ruled out). 7 little tubes of blood taken. Yuk!!
I also went to Ultra Sound Direct last night. I called the hospital to see where my appointment was for a nhs scan as GP referred me Monday and the girl said they had a back log and my appointment would come for week Around the end of Feb!!!
I was a small amount frustrated but nothing could be done. But as I’m off sick with this chest infection I kept thinking ‘is that big blob there still in my lining or did it go with my period last week’ so anyway I went and it’s gone. Normal scan on day 10 of this cycle and no sign of blob hurrah. Lining was 7.8/7.9 so hopefully maybe go back to ‘normal’ but let’s see if Get periods back on time. 

I called about the gynaecologist appointment today and that’s gonna be in May! Jeez! I had no idea be so long. So I am hoping all is cool with blood results next week and then I will just arrange to day trip back to Coventry for biopsy. 

Hope everyone has lovely weekend plans. 

Carrie hope you okay. So frustrated for you! 

Love Apples xx


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## Carrie88

Thanks ladies. 
I'm on the train home now.
So bloody angry still.
I still can't type properly xxx


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## K jade

Hope u managed to get some sleep carrie. What a wasted and infuriating day for u.
There's no where u can get the scratch done locally is there? So u don't have to go all the way back to ldn next week? Trains are so bleeping expensive aren't they. I can get a train to ldn for about 40 quid but coming back takes me into the hundreds so I have to jump on a national express  which is just dire quite honestly.  Driving would be cheaper but I don't understand if u can take your car into London or whether it's just for buses and taxis. 

Apples so sorry u are still unwell . My dh has had the chest infection since beginning of December and cannot seem to shift it . I didn't say but your job sounds great, u have inspired me. I will make the move to social services this year. I need the change not to mention the money.  

Hope everyone else OK. I got to visit to my SIL today.  Dh and  I put it off for months as she's so unbearable but the impending day is now upon us. She's got two kids and doesn't talk about anything else other than kids, her friends kids, her pregnancies both of which were over a decade ago, schools, kids, her son being the next Ronaldo,  kids,  you get my drift. Lots of bitterness flying around today I expect!  
Xx


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## Angedelight

Carrie what a bloody nightmare. And a huge unnecessary expense. Hope you got a big glass of wine when you got home.

Apples- glad all is back to normal inside! One less thing to worry about.

KJade- good news on results. You should go to CRGW for intralipids as cheap and accessible for you.

Right- I've done another one of the ov tests on the same ovulation test. But the new one. Nothing. Just the round circle that says nothing. Surely if I was having a surge it would still be detectable. Are they diff?. Or shall I go by yesterday's result. Bearing in mind last cycle I tested from day 12 for 9 days and nothing!.  What shall I do? I want the biopsy done at the right time as currently we are hammering in steroids to treat the high blood NK cells but if biopsy is low or normal I probably wouldn't need them for such a long time pre transfer. Should I just get a scan to see what's what.

X


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## Angedelight

Just seen your post KJade. Grit your teeth! Say all the replies you want to say in your head then come and have a debrief on here later!. Good luck x


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## Carrie88

I have calmed down a tad, yes.

Kjade - I could get the scratch done up here but would need to pay for a consultation first. Oh my why is your return so expensive? I debate driving to Watford sometimes and parking there. It's on the outskirts of London and not far on the train from there. 
Oh that doesn't sound fun. Sigh. 
Defo going to be a case of bitterness and gritting your teeth and bearing it. Least you know once you've done it today you don't have to see it for a while xx

MrsC - hmm it may not be detectable anymore - it's a really short detection window on ovulation tests. Last time you said you tested from cd12 for 9 days and nothing. Did you get a period that month and if so what cd? 
Can you get bloods done? 
Or a scan? 
Bloods would be cheaper and a gaurented way to know you've ovulated xx


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## K jade

Carrie that made me chuckle  . 
She is most definitely an 'it' and that is how I'll refer to her from now on LOL!!!!
Yeh first great Western trains are the worst.  It's daylight robbery. 
Urgh consultation fee of course. Forgot about that. 

MrsC did u day u got a  smiley yesterday?  That's peak I beleive . So it sounds like yesterday was it. I'd call them up Monday and book. I debated crgw for intralipids but for my first I'll go with Gorgy if I need them ongoing I'll do crgw  xx


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## apples2014

Kjade I have a sister in law just like that you have all my sympathy, you really do. Just suck it up, hang out with your niece/nephews if they about or just be rude and look at your phone ha ha good luck. Local Authority Work is really good if you have the right manager behind you. Sounds like you up for a change babe xx

Carrie glad you are okay babe. How annoying xx

Mrs C is this for a biopsy or for Coventry? I’m sorry I can’t remember. Probably shouldn’t admit this but second time I went for it I forgot to use the cheapie internet things until day 13 and by day 15 didn’t get a second line but I called up and erm ... said i did But it was faint. But for Coventry they don’t book you in for 7 to 10 days after you’ve ovulated so I went about 12 days later as it’s only on a mon or a fri afternoon and when I got the results back I had ovulated so I think I just didn’t track it properly that month. You’ve had the peak thingie which suggests it happening soon so even though the days/timing isn’t as you thought i think you would be fine to go. But you could explain it to them on the phone and see what they say too! 

Happy weekend everyone. It’s pouring and really cold so me and my wheezy chest are not doing much today. DH meeting his mate to watch football. Lots of love Apples xx


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## bippy11

Hi everyone, oh dear I got behind again! 

Carrie, how annoying you had a wasted trip. I was annoyed when I went for my smear and they were running 20 mins late and then said I couldn't have it done although I had checked with them when booking. And that's a 5 min walk from my flat! So I can only imagine how you must have been feeling! Grrr!!! Did you explain to them how inconvenient and expensive it is for you to have to make a second trip and that in future they should check that its the right time when they book the appointment? Sometimes I think they just don't have a clue what an impact all this has on our lives. What is tamoxifen? Does it mean you will be doing a modified natural cycle? I really think that might be the right thing for you. 

I've said it before, but I am so amazed with you ladies who travel for your treatment - whether to London or abroad. I just can't imagine dealing with the extra layer of stress and time that must add. 

KJade you can drive in London, but there are congestion charges centrally. Sorry, I can't help you out with details though because I dont drive. Glad to hear you can get on with things hun, that's great news. Good luck with the SIL today, just get through it and then reward yourself with a nice glass of wine after. x

Apples your chest infection sounds stubborn, really hope it shifts soon. How annoying there is such a long wait to see gynaecologist. Glad you went and got a scan and the blob has gone! 

MrsC I think it sounds like you ovulated if the first stick said that, like Carrie said, I think the window is short. And from what Apples said, it sounds like it is not crucial that it is totally precise anyway if they can only see you on certain days. 

Is it immune testing that you all do in Coventry? Because that is what I was looking to do in Greece (Locus Medicus), but maybe I should do it in Coventry? Or is it something else you ladies are testing in Coventry? You lot are so knowledgable and sometimes I feel like I don't know anything and get confused! 

Aley hope you're doing ok hun and keeping distracted. 2ww is such an anxious up and down time. Shame you can't join us in March - I love Irish accents! And of course it would have been lovely to meet you  

I have to say I am struggling a bit, feeling quite sad and tearful a lot of the time. But I guess it's only just over a month since the miscarriage, so still relatively recently. I still have feint bruise marks on my tummy from all the injections! Thanks MrsC I got my reduced hours at work agreed and that is helping me to manage. I think I had come to the end of my tether with just carrying on disappointment after disappointment, so I dont think I would have managed if I had just continued to try and carry on again. I wish I didn't have to take the paycut though with ongoing treatment, but we will manage and it's more important to avoid a complete breakdown! Im doing lots of running, swimming and yoga, which I am loving after an enforced break during the pregnancy, so I think that's helping me cope. 

We're seeing our doc on Wednesday, so that will be good. Ha I've missed him a bit! Will talk to him then about immunes, scratch etc and when we might be able to get going again.


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## apples2014

Aw Bippy  
I’m online at the mo so this popped straight up 
  

I think you are doing amazing. I cannot imagine the pain of a miscarry at 9 weeks. All that hope and then having to go through the loss. Yoga and swimming are so good though and taking any pressure of yourselves and reducing your hours at work is so good too lovely. You’ve suffered a loss and to get back on it again you need to carry on looking after yourself super well. You should be proud as you are doing all the right things babe. 
If I’m honest that’s why I’ve taken such a long break as I felt so lost. I only had two embryo transfers last year, April and August but both times watched a positive test at day 10 and day 11 fade away to nothingness of a chemical pregnancy and as the last one was my 5th attempt at donor embies I just felt so defeated. 
Time out to look after ourselves is so essential. 
I go to yoga twice a week and b4 I was so unwell I was swimming too and going to a street dance exercise class which was so funny. Like really funny! So exercise does really help when we feeling low but so does pizza and wine and fizz (am bad sorry. Should say green smoothies and kale ha ha ) 

But you are not alone. Everyone here is so lovely. 

About the immunes. Arrrraugh! I wish i didn’t know anything and we didn’t go through all this. I’ve had very basic immunes done at my clinic like NK cells and T Alfa and a bunch of stuff I really don’t understand but Kjade and Carrie are super clever on theses as been through these so they can probably explain much better than me. 

I’ve just had a lovely lovely email from Lotus Med too and I need to send them my history and some current blood tests results and arrange a Skype so sounds like you and I are getting checked out by the guys in the not too distance future. I had an ERA biopsy taken to check receptivity and I was pre receptive and even though the protocol has been tweaked to reflect I wasn’t receptive I still only get chemical pregnancies so something is up! So I hope that lotus med can suggest something. I wonder if I have any missing KIR receptors missing. Bippy I don’t really know what KIR receptors mean or do but if missing they can affect pregnancy and implantation so that’s why am giving lotus med a shot. But I’ve well and truly had my head in the sand since chemical in August but I can share what I find out as I go along on here. 

Coventry is a clinic run by Prof Brosen’s and Prof Quenby. There is a thread on here about it. You pay to go there and they take your infertility history and they take a biopsy of your womb lining AFTER ovulation and they test of the amount of NK cells in your lining. For some women if they are too high you might need a high dose of steroids to suppress the NK cells and NK cells in your lining is different to them in your blood it’s all a bit      Confusing! 
But they are a research clinic and they are completing these biopsies to gain evidence into repeat losses and repeat implantation failures. So it’s ongoing research. But the biopsy itself is also a scratch and whist there is conflicting research too there is a large body of evidence that a scratch a month or two b4 an embryo transfer assists. If you put into google Prof Quenby Coventry an info page comes up. But the biopsy also looks at other things as well depending on what comes up in your consultation. You only pay once the repeat one is no charge. But you are assiting the ongoing, unpublished as yet research. 
Bippy I found going for all these biopsies a bit full on though. It’s been helpful at points but I don’t really have any answers yet so maybe focus on Lotus Med first and go from there. 

Jkade hope the extended family day isn’t going to bad! 
Hi to everyone else. 

Lots of love Apples xxx

Ooh should have said there is a really well written and moving article in the Times magazine today. By Emily Philips its called the secret agony of unexplained fertility. I got it online I had to put in my name and email to read it but it’s her view and then her partners views. Really moving and worth a read!


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## bippy11

Apples thank you. That's really helpful re Coventry. I think maybe it sounds better to actually test the womb lining and get uNK, than just a blood test and get general NK level. I would really like to not take steroids with my next cycle because it gave me bad insomnia this last one, but of course I will only cut them out if it's not going to have a negative impact on the result. I don't tend to ovulate, so I will have to call Coventry to see what they suggest. I will also have to check how soon after a miscarriage you can have a biopsy. I've got my DH researching KIR receptors now!  

I really hope Locus Med can help you Apples, you've been through such a lot. Thank you for your kind words, you are doing amazing too, we just have to get on with this as best we can and support each other. 

Your street dance classes sound funny, haha, I think I would be terrible at that, but that's probably the funny part!   Don't worry, I make sure I have my fair share of wine, pizza, chocolate etc when Im not in the middle of treatment   xxx


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## Angedelight

Apples I just read that. Is it bad my first thought was 'they've only done one round, how does that make a book?!'. 
It was interesting to hear the male perspective as well. The Times seem to do a lot of fertility related articles. They did one on Hannah Vaughn Jones and her husband who are both newsreaders. They also did IVF diaries on YouTube for their latest round- number 7. They were brilliantly done. Sadly not a good outcome. It's great to see infertility getting some press with true perspectives of what it's like.

Locus med are great. I've not Skyped them but with the tests, turnaround and price I've been really impressed. From what I know of them they tend to look at NK cells in blood and disregard womb so at least you'll have all the information anyway as you've done the biopsies. It's Coventry I want to go. I like the fact that the fee gets ploughed back into research too within the NHS.

Bippy- I think you are doing so well. What you went through is a trauma followed by grief- so many stages to both of those. I cannot imagine that hope from seeing a heartbeat to it then being gone. I'm sure you have days where you absolutely don't feel ok- and will feel a whole load of other emotions- grief is a long process with many different stages. Getting out, doing things that are good for you and trying to keep a focus is amazing. Just be kind to yourself and let yourself go through all the emotions. Don't put presssure on yourself to be better, if you need time off, get signed off. Your mental and emotional health have to come first. The reduced hours sound great but if that's too much don't push yourself. Take some time off- I'm sure your GP would sign you off. Equally I'm sure work can be a distraction- only you know what you can manage. I had a huge breakdown after a dreadful cycle in 2016 followed by news out of the blue that we needed donor. I had counselling and it really helped to have that space to talk it all though with a specialist fertility counsellor- would definitely recommend it. 

Carrie I've been to for scratches before and not neededa consultation first. Have you rang them to see if they'll do it?. This was CRGW- they didn't even ask to see a prescription for intralipids but I did have a second opinion at one point with the clinic. They did the scratch before that though. Twice!. 

KJade- hope it went ok.

I had a 26 day cycle last month and bad period pains for a while before that, like it was trying to shed way before. I'll just book in I think. I've had Ov type pains. 

X


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## K jade

Bippy the biopsy in Coventry tests ONLY for uterine natural killer cells. Whilst it's a very useful test to have it rarely gives u the big picture. I had it done but by itself  it didn't get to the bottom of my issues at all. However it did prove  a very  important peice of information to  have and DrG used it when assessing what was going on for me and deciding on what immune drugs I needed. 
The Athens / Chicago blood immune tests, which are by and large the same thing, are a lot more comprehensive : clotting, killing power of your NK's, KIR receptors, dq match with you dh. These  tests revealed my issues.  

Whoever asked about KIR receptors sorry I don't exactly understand them either.  Apples I think it was you. I just had them done after the Munich study revealed the implantation rates soared when ladies with missing KIRs took neupogen . Check me out quoting my studies ! I'll have my PhD before u know it girls! 

MrsC no your not the only one. I roll my eyes too at those big stories too when they've only had a year or so infertility or 1 IVF then gone on to conceive naturally.  Terrible aren't we  . sorry I haven't read this particular peice so my apologies if that's not the case with this woman. 
Ant ( the one from ant and dec) has recently divorced from his wife after years of ttc has taken its toll.  Makes me wander just how many of us are out there struggling with long term ivf. 

Meeting with SIL was OK.  She showed us round her new house,  told us how they were going to spend 30 grand building an extension , as she wants a kitchen with an island Oh and big skying holiday this year for them all  costing 4 or 5 grand. And  how rebellious she is as she will have to take the kids outta school in term time so she will lie telling the teachers they are sick. Scandalous. Who cares i thought!
We didn't stay long. Went over my friends after for a takeaway and good natter . Gonna do some packing today for hols. 

I've run outta vitamins. Anyone know if the more budget ones in asda/ lidl etc are as good as the expensive brands on amazon? Xx


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## apples2014

Mrs C you made me chuckle. No you are not bad. I think we always think this when we read some of these stories the worst ever was the TV show about the BBC One show and she was like oh wow I’m pregnant at the end of the show but the show was about infertility- which she didn’t have but hey! Who am I to judge but that one really pee’d me off. Very happy that she didn’t have to experience the issues we face and became pregnant in under a year but why? Why make a TV show about the woes of infertility and then be like ta dah! At the end? Grrr!

The one on The Times yesterday is so well written and worded and I like it has her partners take on it. Really well written, but yah I do know what you mean. I forwarded it to my girlfriend and I was like obvs this isn’t the same as us as she’s not had an ET and I’ve had more than I have fingers (then I kinda  took a step back and thought oh wow eek! that’s loads) but I enjoyed the piece none the less but I really know what you mean. 

I managed to go get all the blood tests done on Friday that my GP arranged so when I get the results, hopefully on Tuesday I will email them and respond to the email from Locus Medicus to arrange the chat. But so far they’ve asked for blood history. So on Friday I had the ovarian tumour blood test (heck am sure it’s all really okay though) and repeated thromb ones to see how my protein C is doing and also had prolactin, thyroid, vita D and basic full blood count. So like I said when I get them all back I will crack on with Locus Med. 


Coventry was only for NK cells in my lining. One time they were 15 percent so I took 20 mg of steroids (pred) from ET had a chemical. They then shrunk down to under 5 but was advised to take the pred again from ET had a bFn then after that my NK cells have always been under 5 so not been advised to take any pred streroids so haven’t. But just to add even though Coventry if for NK cells in lining as i have been so often they also checked for other things like CD138 which I tested positive for which is like a bacteria (can get this from Ivf procudues and it’s also like a STI to but I was advised by Coventry to take a course of antibiotics before a ET and it was gone next time I had a biopsy so they can check for other things but this isn’t the main thing you go there for. I think they just felt sorry for me as had 10 embryo transfers and no resolution to the old pesky non receptive ERA). I didn’t have an STI it was something that came up b4 when I had the 7 in 1 blood test for hidden c at serum, it’s like a bacteria load but Coventry found it again! 

But I would say they are helpful but it doesn’t answer all our woes. As to whether taking the little white steroids pred pills stops recurrent miscarriage or recurrent implantation failure, well that research is still on going. But I like having the scratch so it has that function too. 

Kjade thanks for the KIR receptors input. I’m a bit nervous about getting any advice or feedback from Locus Medicus as it might tip my consultants mood over the edge ha ha but I want to give it a go! It can’t hurt can it! Blinking 10 embryo transfers. Maybe I just need natural FET. Who knows!! Grrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

I’m so pleased you have the go ahead from Dr G and your holiday. Very excited for you. I would love to be digging out flip flops and sun hat right now. It’s sleeting here!
Sounds like you had a lovely day over all in the end yesterday. 

Hi ya everyone else. Happy Sunday! 
Love Apples xx


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## bippy11

Hi ladies, 

Thanks so much MrsC for your good advice, I know you are right, I have to look after the old emotional and mental health, especially at a time like this when I am a bit fragile. I said to DH that I keep telling myself that I have to be grateful for what I have and enjoy life and plenty of people have it worse than us and in many respects we are very lucky.. and then beating myself up because despite all that I still feel sad. He said that it's ok to feel both and they don't have to be exclusive feelings and you don't have to try to push out the sadness. I think that is a good way of thinking of it, so I am going to try and not feel bad and like a failure when the sadness catches up with me. I have had counselling before (in trying to deal with fertility issues). I don't think the councillor was right for me, but maybe I need to try another one! 

Hope you manage to get booked in for your biopsy Mrs C x

Kjade, thank you, I think Im going to ask my doc whether I should do both coventry and athens. It might reveal something. I did have chicago, but that was a few years ago, so I think its worth checking again, it might have changed by now. Our bloods are such international jetsetters - Athens, Chicago! (Coventry not so much   ) haha x 

So exciting with your holiday Kjade, when are you off? You'll have to give me a few tips! Where are you going to be? Well be staying in a small place in the North East called El Cotillo. x

Apples I know the BBC show you are talking about - that really took the biscuit! Great you got all your bloods done with GP on Friday. Such a quick turnaround for results. x

Aley, one more day done for you. Wishing and hoping for you   xxx


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## Carrie88

Kjade - yes I would say any vitamins are fine. It's like when they compare expensive pain killers to cheap ones, they all do the same job. The only expensive vitamin and good branded one I took was ubiquional. 
Hope you got all your packing done for holiday  have an awesome time!! When do you fly? Well done for getting through the day with your sister in law as well xx 

Bippy - you are such a strong and amazing lady and don't for one minute think you're not. Every tim you get dressed or leave the house is an achievement I'd say. The bad days will become less but you're still going to think of it every day probably until you have your baby. Sounds like you're doing lots of things that make you happy and keep you distracted which is very important. Sending love!! 

No I didn't because I was just in shock at how blasé dr Gorgy was about me coming back on Friday and now I wonder if it's too late/how would I do it? 

Well now I'm not sure because a lot of people use tamoxifen in a natural cycle. I don't know if I can use tamoxifen with oestrogen? Dr Gorgy was really pretty against it xx 

Apples - sound like you're being productive and are well on your way to maybe getting more answers? Fingers crossed for you xx

MrsC - hmm no I haven't. I've seen spire hospital do it but it says on the website about a consultation first - I might ring them tomorrow now actually and see what they say. Have you emailed or called Coventry yet? Xx


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## K jade

thanks Carrie that's what I wandered as well. as there was something on the TV about how the cheap own brand painkillers were exactly the same as things like neurophen. Ubiquonol yeh same as you cant get that cheap at all. and I have to take expensive folic acid anyway. 
I guess I may as well go for the pricey omega 3 if that's the case then!

bippy don't beat yourself up about feeling down and  lay off giving yourself the  telling-off  about others having it worse and always  having to be grateful. There's nothing to be grateful about having infertility and M/Cs. Life is hard and its blxxdy unfair. 
counselling was never for me, but there are other outlets. I find the support on here, and spending time with friends the best. also long walks with the dog and simple things really like going over a mates for a cuppa really help me. (of course it probably helps that  most of my friends are bitter, barren , single, or  divorced !    )
if your going to seek the advice of your Dr about which to have, ill would bet my bottom dollar he tells you to have the Coventry biopsy. Dr's in the UK view quenby's work more highly, as she is an NHS professor and they see it as 'above board' in terms of the way she's conducting the study. After all  her clinic is based in a very large NHS teaching hospital.  If you have already had the Chicago ones personally I wouldn't  bother with the Athens ones they are basically the same. id go for the biopsy as it may reveal a new piece of information. As you know for me the biopsy and the Chicago's/Athens were both necessary. 
We are off on Saturday from Bristol. we  are going to Jandia. think its on the south of the island? We are in a hotel but only doing BnB and hoping there will be some nice restaurants within walking distance.  lets hope the weathers hot for both of us  

Aley I know your probably keeping your head down right now , I'm thinking of you and feeling positive you might be posting some good news soon!!!     


P.S does anyone know how much clexane is please? 
I will need 20mg daily from day 5 of stims then 40mg from EC onwards?
not sure I can be bothered to ask my hospital clinic who would give it to me but would mean I would have to divulge all 
x


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## bippy11

Carrie thank you xxx

I don't think its too late - you don't have to say it in a confrontational way, but you can just explain how much it incoveniences you and costs you to make a trip that isn't necessary and then having to schedule another one and that in future you would really appreciate if they check anything like that at the point of booking you in. 

How is Mark doing? Hope he is getting on ok, although I am sure it must still be very difficult for him. x

kjade, thank you. I am grateful for what I have, but you are right, I shouldn't beat myself up about feeling down and that is exactly the advice I would give to a friend, but somehow I am always a bit more hard on myself, so I need to give myself a break! 

Ill let you know what Dr says about Coventry and Athens. I had Chicago done over a year ago, can immunes change over time? If so, I thought it might be worth testing again. Ill ask Dr. 

So exciting your holiday is so soon! x Im not sure about cost of clexane sorry, my drugs have always been included in treatment package. Will you have to take anything on your holiday?


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## K jade

bippy11 said:


> I had Chicago done over a year ago, can immunes change over time? If so, I thought it might be worth testing again. Ill ask Dr.


if only done a year ago they will still be 'in date' so to speak. A lady on here showed NK assay to Dr G which was 2 years old and he accepted it and didn't ask her to repeat. I wouldn't waste your money on the Athens ones if you've had Chicago. they are basically the same so you will be duplicating. 
thankfully I don't have to take drugs with me back on the 3rd and start down ****** on the 5th xx


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## Northern

Just popping in quickly as at work... 
Kjade, Clexane is £4 - £5 per 20mg jab.  Try Oxford Online Pharmacy where I think you can order online (never checked but they were on my medication research spreadsheet!! Or Stork are very good too, and Ali's in London (Rigcharm Pharmacy).  Try Asda too, costs are meant to be good there and you shouldn't have any issue as you'll have a UK prescription (they fobbed me off as mine was EU, even though they're supposed to accept it grrr)

Xxx


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## apples2014

Just a quickie  kJade do you have thromb issues MRFTH? 
I do I have the hetroz one (must learn to spell) but due to my families blood clotting DVT history and the MRFTH mutation I get my clexane on prescription from GP. Babe I’m sure you’ve tried your GP already but just on the and off chance you haven’t give them a call. The hospital blood consultant said would need clexane all through pregnancy with that mutation so a bit mean if they won’t give enough for two week wait! 

Hi everyone! 
I’m on my way home. I went back to work after a week off but still have a tight chest so it’s not budged completely grrr! But GP is suggesting I try different antibiotics and a asthma inhaler. Going to collect now! Grrr juts want to feel better! 

Big hi to everyone. Aley especially thinking of you xx

Apples x


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## Carrie88

Oooh kjade that sounds lovely, just what you need before a new cycle.
I got my clexane from Asda - I can't remember how much it was but it was the cheapest one around here.
Using Dr Gorgys pharmacy was extortionate - like £150!! 

Bippy - well i took Mrs C's advice and rang around and managed to get in to reproductive health group in daresbury without a consultation. I've been there before as in 2016 they took all my bloods for level 2 immunes. It's half an hour from my house.
Booked in for 9am on Friday so I've saved on a train journey and on cancelling an overtime shift. You can re test immunes if you wanted too but after a year I wouldn't bother.
He's ok thank you chick. It's been 6 weeks today since his dad officially died and it feels like it's been 6 months.
We've started emptying his parents house out but it's gonna take us a looooong time.
How are you doing this week? Xx

Apples - hope work was ok and some new antibiotics and an inhaler can make you feel better xx


I'm not well either  I'm at home in my pjs with a hot juice and paracetamol - man I feel rough!! Xx


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## Angedelight

Ladies these bloody ovulation tests are doing my head in! Peak on Friday which I thought was early. Tested Saturday with the new box (used clear blue digital ovulation tests both times). Saturday nothing. Yesterday and today flashing faces which means high fertility. Tried phoning coventry but Keri who seems really knowledgeable wasn't in but is tomorrow so I'll have to try tomorrow and see what she thinks. These tests are 99% accurate?!. 

KJade I've just been buying cheap vitamins! I couldn't be bothered to ask Serum for a prescription for 5mg folic acid so have just been taking the Aldi ones. And their high strength cod liver oil and their women's vitamins. Gone is the Solgar!. I don't actually like the counselling model- in all fairness she never got to 'counsel' me as I'd usually just rant for an hour. It was a safe space to say exactly what I thought and we had a good rapport. I always came out feeling much lighter. It must be the easiest money she made!. Bitter, barren, single or divorced made me laugh out loud! Currently lots of my friends seem ultra fertile. Sigh. So exciting you are off on your hols. Yes- I wonder exactly what Ant Mc partlin and his wife went through- bet that played a huge part in it. So sad. 

Carrie- great about finding somewhere to do it that saves you time and money. Will you go to work afterwards? I get my friend who has back problems to give me her tramadol when I go, I'm only good for the sofa afterwards!. Hope you feel better soon.

Apples hope you feel better soon too. I never watched that fertility program and was raging when I heard she did that at the end. So undermining!. DH had the one show on the other day and I had a rant about her doing that then. Hope you get your results tomorrow.

Aley- how are you doing? You still holding off those tests?.

Bippy- don't beat yourself up about feeling sad. I'm sure in some ways we all are lucky- it's not about not being grateful but hard times and all this is really difficult. And I know there are people worse off but there's also people better off who don't have to go through this!. I think you're doing incredibly well. 

Northern- hope you're ok and still feeling positive about the future.

I also just totalled up how much cash to take off the credit card for more Locus Medicus blood tests, coventry biopsy and consult with Dr G. £1400. 😭 Thank god I can do overtime in my job. 

Wishing everyone a good week.

X


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## Aley

Hi girls, 

Sorry I am going to be brief but will come back to chat some more. I had my beta hcg yesterday and that was less than 1...nothing, nada, all gone probably next second after it got in. 
My fourth transfer and embryo nr 6 with not even a chemical, so bloody frustrating. I payed so much money for intralipids and put my body under pressure with the steroids all for nothing. 
Have no idea where to go from here, also not very rich anymore.


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## Baking Queen

I'm so sorry Aley - it's so hard and nothing I can say can make things any easier.  Be kind to yourself and try and do something that makes you feel better.  Do you mind me asking what does of steroids you were on?  I had steroids from my second cycle but it wasn't until I added in the high dose of steroids that we got success.  I also did one dose of Humira and intralipids but I'm convinced it was the steroids that made the difference. 
Take care.
BQ. xx


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## apples2014

Aley I’m so sorry. Sending you both so much love 💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕

It’s just so sad, frustrating, confusing and it doesn’t even help to say it, but it’s so unfair. I’m really sorry babe. I was hoping so much for you guys. 

I’m usually a bit numb, then sad and angry then just totally flapping about money and what to do next so I can empathise. 

I know you’ve had ERA already so it’s not that. I would just let yourself be how ever you need to be or feel this week, then arrange to have the follow up. We kinda need to just dust ourselves back down and go again and look forwards, but I know it’s hard. 

So much love, I’m so sorry Aley
Apples xx


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## K jade

thanks ladies for you your responses on the clexane
I didn't realise it cost that much  
I'm going to ask my NHS clinic to give it to me. ill email over DrGs prescription and ask them to convert it 


Aley I'm not going to lie I'm totally gutted for you 
I so hoped  this would be your time
nothing I can say to make it better, other than we all know how you are feeling right now. Such a bitter blow. Nothing worse


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## bippy11

oh no Aley! Im so sorry   aaargh it's so cruel!!! You must be so upset my dear, we've all been there, it's horrible and devastating. Please look after yourself and each other, give yourselves a bit of space and time and you will figure out whats next when you are ready. Sending you lots of hugs and strength xxx       

A colleague brought his cute tiny baby in to the office today.. everyone standing around coo-ing and aaah-ing. I just left and went for a walk and didn't come back until the baby had left the building. They must have thought I was a bit rude, but never mind! It really threw me, work is kind of a safe space where I have distraction, so I can't really deal with being confronted with babies in the office! 

Carrie, Im glad Mark is doing ok. It's not a nice task you have ahead of you emptying their house, it's so good you can be there to help him xxx


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## K jade

How u doing today Aley?  Bippy is right you'll figure out what's next..

Oh Bippy reeeeeeèeaally. .. 
I too would have taken myself off for a walk. People can and will do what they like  but that doesn't mean you  have to look or listen .   gotta be ruthless for your own wellbeing. 

Right well Dr G has added steroids to my protocol. 25mg from day 5.   I DID remind him my uNKs were low but he said Yeh I know 
So I must trust his judgement 
So emailed nhs cons yesterday asking her to convert my prescription to an NHS one so I can have them , and the clexane, for free. Waiting to hear back..
I just hope I haven't offended her. She was the one who told me to have steroids in the first place . She's gonna wander why I said no only to travel the length and breath of the UK seeking various opinions only to wind up back asking her for them ! X


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## Angedelight

Oh Aley. So sorry to hear your news. I hope you and DW have a bit of time together to process it and just be near each other. It's so bloody frustrating when you try things that seem to be the thing that crack it for others. Sending lots of love. 

KJade- amazing if you can get it all on the NHS! Steroids aren't much but clexane is. What % were your blood NK's? Do steroids help TFNa or is that dose literally for NKs?. 

Bippy- I'd have done the same. Don't feel bad, you have to put yourself first.

I phoned Coventry and due to all the inconsistent readings we are abandoning this month and testing from day 7 next month. Then will book in. But think it will clash with holiday. Never mind. In the meantime I'll send blood to Athens so that's done and see what that comes back as.

X


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## Northern

Oh no Aley I’m so sorry it was bfn - I know we’ve all been through it before but there’s nothing that makes it any easier to deal with and it’s all just a horrible, cruel and unfair process and I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this again. Hope you and your partner are looking after each other and having some time together. Thinking of you both xxx 

Bippy, you’re still going through such a tough time, you’re doing really well but babies in the workplace is never a nice one or easy one to deal with - you did right just removing yourself from that situation til they were gone, you need to look after yourself. Big hugs lovely, you’re doing great xxx

Hi to everyone, sorry been a bit quiet I’ve had a mad mad week, I’m going on secondment in my job in a few weeks and we were interviewing for my replacement today - very weird feeling! X


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## K jade

MrsC where are u off on hols again ? Sorry the ov kits messed you around. 
I think steroids are just for NK's. My NK absolute concentration (cd56) is normal but the killing power (50.1) is 22%. NHS clinic have still not got back to me  about whether they'll convert DrGs prescription so hope there's no drama there.
Your right about the vitamins this will be my last cycle with expensive ones. After that it's aldi/ lidl/ home bargains all the way!  Funny what u said earlier about ant from ant and dec.  I would also be very very keen to know exactly what they went through. They are not short of money so I imagine they did everything possible. 

Northern hope yesterday went well.

Hope everyone else is good , 2nd to last day of work for me.  I can't wait for a bit of sunshine


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## bippy11

Evening all, feeling a bit low today, so Ive cracked and am having a Thursday GnT! It gives me comfort when I feel down that I can come on here and 'talk' to you ladies, so thank you   And you all say Im doing well, which is very nice!   because Im really not sure I am, can't seem to pick myself up x

We went to see our doc last night, it felt hard going back there, I think because I had thought hopefully I wouldn't have to again (at least not for a few years). He doesn't think I should do Athens test as I already did Chicago. But also he pointed out that there is scientific evidence lacking around link with general NK cells in the body. And also that the result from the blood test could be raised if for example you are fighting a virus or something at time of the test. So if I want to do something, he thinks Coventry will be better as I haven't done that before and that is actually taking a biopsy testing cells in the right area. If I have this test it could tell me whether I should take steroids again with my next cycle or if I could avoid it. 
I have to call them to find out whether I can do it after my next period - it may be too soon after I stopped steroids from pregnancy cycle. And also whether they will do it with medicated cycle such as chlomid to make sure I ovulate. If they won't do it next cycle, then I might just take steroids because I don't want the biopsy to delay next transfer. 
Other than that he thinks that we've done all tests that are worth doing. He is happy to test for mthfr (is that right kjade?) so might do that. 
He was very sorry about what had happened and he still believes that we will have a baby. It was good to hear him say that because I do trust him, so although its getting difficult, we just have to try to try to keep believing. 

MrsC well done for getting on with the Athens test, shame you had to postpone the Coventry one. Its all quite a lot of hassle with these tests! I think you are off somewhere a bit more exotic than the canaries - India maybe? Or was it Sri Lanka? 

Kjade so exciting, you're nearly on holiday, eeek!   shame you have to take steroids. hope the NHS prescription comes through for you. I agree, I think cheapo vits are fine for transfer. We've only ever done the expensive ones (ubiqunol, zita west etc) in the months before egg collection. Im not convinced vitamins do much anyway if you have a healthy balanced diet (unless you have been diagnosed with some deficiency and should take vits for that). I think it's just another way for them to make money out of us!   

Northern, thank you. Must be so weird interviewing for your job! Whats your secondment? Sounds good to have a change. 

Aley, sending you so many cuddles and thinking of you my dear xxx  

Sorry Im missing others, but the GnT is kicking in and now Im feeling a bit sozzled and this is getting a bit long anyway! x


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## Aley

Hi girls!

Sorry for posting so late, I spend all of my days at work which was good I guess since I wasn't thinking much about it. 
Thank you to all of you that was thinking of me, it's a nice thing to know there is someone that does that even if I didn't meet any of you in real life. 
My friends and my best friend actually never once messaged me to see how I was or what was the outcome and I am not going to lie...it stings! 
I have this feeling that everyone around me is a bit fed up with my getting too long ivf process...

Baking Queen, I had 25 mg of Predniolone. My clinic wanted me on 15 but I increased the dose by myself, taken from cd 2. I also had intralipids. I don't know what to take to make a difference. The fact that I had no implantation whatsoever is worrying. Now I am not even sure is just the immune issue...
How much steroids where you on? Sorry if you mentioned it before.

Kjade, thanks hun! Are you off in holidays already? Hope you'll have a great time!

Apples, thank you! How are you keeping? I hope the infection has settled and you feel better. Hugs!

Bippy, this is going to sound strange but what's GnT? 
I think the fact that your doctor is positive is a good thing, I too believe you'll get there but is hell of a journey and is absolutely normal to have down, to have bad days. Take your time to grieve, with time everything gets better in the end.

Northern, how is everything going at work? Did you find someone suitable for the job? Everything else ok?

Mrs-c, I always had problems with ovulation test...you probably ask yourself why in the world would a lesbian have ovulation tests  well, we were trying with ai at some point so I was testing every month. The cheap ones will always show line but then the clear blue one with the smiley face were very inconsistent. I think I got a smiley face twice with clear blue. I would probably trust the cheap one more, I think they were from
poundland. And also things like ewcm and temperature. Good luck next month.

Carrie, how are you feeling? Hope you guys are coping ok. Sending hugs!

I am sorry if I missed people.

Now, I actually want to ask for advice. We didn't plan our next step yet and we'll probably have to wait a bit but I do feel confused. 
We were taking into consideration things like embryo adoption, even though wifey is not very keen or reciprocal ivf. That is more expensive so I don't want again to be throwing money out the window. With no implantation after trying steroids and intralipids I do feel that the embryo element might be a problem. It was a day 6 blastocyst so maybe it was not meant to be anyway and maybe all my embryos were faulty. We will definitely change the donor sperm but I feel crossed if to change the egg too. I was never told I have egg quality issues but...it's one of those things. What if I do. This was my 4th transfer. Do I try one more with my eggs and womb or cut it and move in another direction?


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## K jade

Hello girls in a very sunny warm fuerteventura right now . Carrie I thought of you as this hotel is Adult only.  Not ONE family in sight,  anywhere.  No pregnant women. No babies and no toddlers running around. Absolute bliss. Basically just couples. Old and young. 

Aley glad your holding up hun. 
In response to your ponderings I don't know . I really don't.  I do think there's so much about embryo quality we don't know yet.  And I don't think pgs has been the magic answer everyone hoped it would in trying to find out what embryos turn into people.  There's a lady on here who I spotted who had numerous OE transfers of beautiful hatching pgs approved blasts. Not one pregnancy.  Nothing.  Moved into non pgs tested donor eggs and got pregnant.  It makes you wander doesn't it. Do some women simply reject their own eggs? Is it cause our eggs are too similar therefore our body doesn't see them as a pregnancy?  Does using DE mean our body is more likely to see the pregnancy? All questions I have asked myself .
One thing Ive also been made aware of is that all clinics have a different lab culture. It may be that your clinics one isn't right for your  eggs. A new clinic and fresh perspective  may yield a totally different result for u . 
All food for thought I guess. Take your time and youll figure out the next move xx


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## Aley

Kjade, that sounds bliss. 2 years ago we had our pre-honeymoon in Lanzarote in an adult only hotel. It was one of the best holidays. 
Enjoy it, you deserve it! 

Thanks for your advice, I know...it’s hard to say. This time we will definitely change the clinic, we have no more frosties, no string attached. We’ll also change the donor sperm. Is hard to make the call for donor embryos as I had good response, good embryos and still so young in terms of fertility.


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## K jade

Sorry I can't remember if u changed donor before?  Have u used the same one all the way through.  Definitely definitely change if so. 
Great that you are now free to move clinics. It might be the case they just weren't right for u. Lots of ladies achieve sucess by changing and getting a fresh set of eyes and ears on the  case. If you can bear the brunt financially I'd be inclined to stick with OE right now. You are very young fertility wise. 
Will u stick with Ireland ?
I hear great things about New life in thesaloniki. They are very meticulous and thorough 

Urgh raining today! ! 
xx


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## Aley

We never changed the donor, see we only had 2 fresh cycles and then fets so we didn’t really think much about changing it after the first fresh. Our donor has a pregnancy on his file, one or more who knows but then when I think back my embryos were always very good quality on day 3 with 8-10 cells and very little fragmentation, afterwards they started to slow down, the majority of them reaching full blastocyst only on day 6. I was reading that after day 3 the development is dictated mostly by the sperm so it makes me wonder what if... I am not blaming the sperm donor but it’s always a possibility. Plus the donors are being screened for all sorts of genetic conditions and obvs sti but I don’t think they have fragmentation test for example.

We’ll probably stay in Ireland tbh, I would travel but my job doesn’t allow me to take too much time off and I am afraid the whole process will be too stressful and I don’t need that. 

Hope the rain will stop xx see what’s around worth visiting if the weather is not good, I am sure there are nice places.


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## K jade

No they don't.  Only penny at serum checks her male donors for dna fragmentation. I don't think anywhere else does xx


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## bippy11

Aley GnT is a Gin and Tonic    

I think a new Dr sounds like a good idea. If it was me I would continue exploring OE as you have been able to get blastocysts and some to freeze, but only you can decide that in the end. Seeing as you can chose your sperm, maybe it would be worth getting it tested for fragmentation. 

Its really hard when friends and family don't react and support us in the way we would like. Its one of the things I have found hardest about this whole process and although my relationship with DH hasn't suffered, a lot of my other relationships have felt the strain of all this. Perhaps your friend didn't want to put pressure on by asking how it was going. Have you told her the outcome by now? Hope you and DP have been able to talk and support each other. 

Oh no Kjade - rain!?!?   Hope it's just a blip and the sun comes out for you (and keeps shining for when Im there in a couple of weeks!). Either way hope it's nice to be away from everything and adult only sounds perfect! Hope you are enjoying some tapas and Spanish wine. 

DH and I went out for dinner on the weekend and was sat next to this table with 4 REALLY LOUD guys. It got really annoying when they then started toasting 'new additions' and 'little ones'. When my DH went to the loo, one of them started talking (REALLY LOUDLY, so I couldn't not hear) about how amazing it was when he had seen his first one on the scan and when his kids were born etc... I literally couldn't take it, I got upset and had to get up and go and stand around the corner.. a waiter came past me and asked me if they were being too loud, so I said a bit and he really kindly moved us to another table. Haha, I wonder if he thought I was crying just because they were being loud!   DH was a bit confused when he got back and I was on a different table, but really sweet when I explained. xxx


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## K jade

Oh Bippy you poor thing. Why are you always landing on the tail  end of this rubbish . That's twice in as many weeks for u? 
Men make me laugh too. As if any of those guys ever lifts  a finger when it comes to their kids anyway.  
Glad u got moved ! xx


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## Aley

Gin and tonic, lol, didn't think of that! 
What a nasty experience at the restaurant, I hate loud people...ih, good the waiter moved you.

I would not pay for a stranger to have a fragmentation test, the last thing I want to spend my money on  I'll just change the donor hope for the best. 
My friend still doesn't know but looks like she doesn't care either so I won't mention it...people do get bored with fertility issues.


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## Angedelight

Hi ladies

Hope we are all doing ok. I'm loving that the evenings are lighter. Definitely feels like winter is on it's way out!.

Aley hope you're doing ok. Sounds like you have a few options for next time which is great. I think it always helps to try something different.

KJade- enjoy that warmth and sunshine!. Perfect timing just before your next cycle!. Did get your blood NK cells done via Locus Medicus?. I might PM you for some help with mine if ok...

Bippy- snap- all this has affected my friendships and my ability to socialise to a degree. Can't believe the restaurant stuff, great you got moved. How did you get on with Coventry?. 

Carrie- how are you doing?. Did I see on insta you paid £300 odd for your scratch??  I get one down here for £150 and even that seems excessive for that pain which has yet to do anything! What with all the scratches and hysto and implantation cuts we have spent well over £2k just lacerating my womb!. 

Apples, Northern, hope you're both ok. 

My manager emailed me today about doing a secondment to the community. In an ideal world this would be great- in reality with all this treatment stuff still going on I think it will be too anxiety provoking. I know I can do my current job and function alright when the reality is outside of it I'm in meltdown when doing treatment. A new role right now is just too much. I was just saying to DH the other day that infertility has also affected my career as well as everything else. My manager knows about treatment so I will just be honest. Don't need anymore pressure right now!. I still need my follow up from November from Serum, might book that... I just get anxious everytime I think about treatment...

Xx


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## bippy11

Hi Mrs C. Oh it sounds so horrible when you put it like that about spending so much money on 'lacerating' your womb! It's so crazy but true! 

I am the same with you with work - I have said no to things and not progressed in my career for a long time because when Im in the middle of treatment I need something that I can easily manage and not have too much pressure. However I do feel lucky that my manager and organisation is flexible which means it is possible to even keep working, because I have come across many women who had to give up work completely because they couldn't balance it with treatment and didn't have the support / flexibility from their work to help with it. I sometimes think, well with these extra years I have been working at least I have earnt more for when (if) our baby comes - and then I remember that we have also during these years spent a s**tload on fertility treatment! 
But wasn't it you who moved, which must have meant moving jobs as well? That sounds very impressive to me. Did you speak to your manager about the secondment and why you don't feel you can do it? I think honesty is definitely the best policy if your manager knows about the treatment. 

Re relationships and socialising its definitely had a big impact, also with family relationships. I am saying no to a friends birthday this Saturday because there will be babies and toddlers and it will be in a place full of little ones. In a way the thing I find harder than the little ones is the parents - I just can't deal with sitting around with a bunch of people talking about their children and being parents etc, I find that too hard. 

We have our follow up from the miscarriage at the hospital tomorrow morning. I doubt they will be able to tell us much. I haven't had a period yet and its been over 6 weeks now. I stupidly started convincing myself that I could be pregnant - I know it's ridiculous but my mind just kept running away with these stupid daydreams.. I think its just because I want it so desperately that my mind is playing tricks on me. My periods are usually far apart anyway, so its not going to be the case. 

Hope everyone else is ok xxx


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## K jade

well the sunshine did not make any more appearances and it's rained everyday since! It's quite cold too , as in hats, scaf, jumper, coat weather. We haven't let it dampen our spirits though and just made use of the hotel gym and pool and the all you can eat breakfast!  I needed to get fit anyway

I'm with you all on the career stuff.  Mine hit the dust as soon as I started ttc in 2011.  This year I decided no more .after this cycle if I do not succeed I will be applying for new jobs with better pay and more opportunities . Sometimes I do wander if a big change in your life can create changes in other unrelated  areas too. A manouve of forces in the universe  can perhaps 'unblock' things a bit? 

Ladies where do u store all your drugs? I literally have so many  this time I'm struggling to put them all in one place  or even one room and I want to be organised. .


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## Carrie88

Hello my lovely ladies!! 

Sorry I've been absent - I was poorly all of last week so didn't feel like going online much. 

MrsC - yes my scratch was £350!!! So expensive. It was done by a consultant who knows dr Gorgy and told me to say hi. I asked him about tamoxifen and even he said no he wouldn't reccomend it and what studies am I looking at. 
There are studies though so I'm still going to get it. 
Hahaha, I took codiene, paracetamol and ipiburoofen so I was fine. I went to work afterwards. 
That's annoying about Coventry but makes sense and you don't want a false reading.
How long till your holidays now? Xx
I saw you were taking cod liver oil. Be careful about taking that during ivf as it's not reccomended, omega 3 yes, cod liver oil, no. 
Oh god I dread to think how much money I've spent on my womb, let's not think about that haha!!
Good move career wise. I would of said no as well. I know what you mean, I'm only part time and have been offered full time contracts but can't take it cos of the time I need off for London  


Kjade - that hotel sounds perfect to me!! Adults only. I love adults only. What a shame about the weather although I bet it's still been lovely!! 
That's strange dr Gorgy has recommended steroids. He told me no no because my NKC biopsy came back low? Did you manage to get the clexane on NHS? 
My drugs are all in boxes in my wardrobe. We have built in wardrobes in the bedroom and nothing on the top shelves apart from my ivf boxes xx 


Aley - thinking of you. How are you doing? Xx

Bippy - I would of also said no to that friends birthday, as sad as it is. I couldn't deal with that. Good luck for your follow up today, how did it go? Poor you about that restaurant scenario  that must of been so upsetting!! You did the right thing in being asked to move xx

Northern - good luck with your secondment xx

Anyone else I've missed hiiiiiii!!! 


So I'm just waiting for my period. 
On the 19th Jan, dr Gorgy told me I'd ovulated which is 2 weeks today and my periods are normally spot on 14 days after ovulation. 
I had pink/ red spotting on Wednesday and now nothing, nada!! 
Do you think the scratch has delayed it? 
Or dr Gorgy was wrong and I'd not ovulated yet? Xx


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## Northern

Oh no Kjade that's a shame!  I was picturing you basking on beaches in the sunshine! Still sounds nice and relaxing though, quite nice to have an excuse just to stay in the hotel sometimes isn't it and make use of the pool - well done for venturing to the gym as well!! 

Amazingly it's actually sunny here after a week of hail and sleet - there's lots of snow on the hills which is v pretty but it's still freeeezing! Enjoying it not being properly dark when I leave work though   

I'm the same - while going through ivf I wasn't interested at all in progressing at work, I think there's only so much challenge we can cope with, and if work is steady and manageable then it frees us up to focus on treatment.  I was lucky to have a lovely and v supportive manager, and my job was pretty flexible, so didn't want to leave that while juggling treatment abroad.  My new job will be covering the whole north of England so more travel - don't think I could have handled that while sorting scans/drugs/trips to Prague as well.  It'll still be pretty flexible though as I can plan all the trips myself so hopefully the best of both while we look at our options this year.  And it pays a bit better too - much needed at the moment!! 

Hahaha kjade are you having drug storage issues?!  I have refridgerated ones in a cardboard box in the salad drawer - sellotaped up and then in a carrier bag so the kids never found it - then a big plastic box under the bed with all our treatment stuff in it.  Out the way but accessible! 

Carrie, yes scratch can definitely delay your period, it has done for me every time, and I also got random spotting for a couple of days beforehand.  Ouch £350?!!  That seems pretty dear, mine were £150 with City Fertility in London.  Fingers crossed it does the trick though. 

Bippy thinking of you today - hope your follow up is supportive and you can get some useful thoughts from it.  Urgh what a horrible experience for you in that restaurant - so glad the waiter was kind to you, it makes a big difference when people react well with something like that xxx


----------



## bippy11

Thanks Northern. Unfortunately it was NOT supportive or useful in any way. THEY HAD LOST IT!!! Im still in shock a bit, I just can't believe that this has happened. The consultant said that it has been lost so there are no results. Just feel like Ive been punched. And I was just starting to get a bit better and now I just feel broken again. DH is currently writing a complaints letter to PALS.


----------



## Carrie88

Bippy - what have they lost?? Xx

Northern - I know. I thought that was excessive. Money robbing gits. Your new role sounds amazing and definetly sounds like it will keep you busy xx


----------



## Northern

Oh My God Bippy what!!!  They've lost the report or the actual sample? Is anyone looking into how this happened and if it could be traced? Any reassurance/grovelling apology?  Get that complaint letter in asap. Omg I'm outraged on your behalf!! 

You poor thing, you've had a rough couple of weeks     xxx


----------



## bippy11

Im not sure what they lost. No tests were made. I don't know whether they lost all of the tissue (our babies) or just the sample they took from them to test. On the day there were giving us all these options of what we wanted to happen to them and we chose for the hospital to organise for them to be cremated. But now I don't know if they just chucked them in the bin or left them lying around somewhere. Im so upset. And it would have been good to know the results from the tests, whether the miscarriage was due to chromosomal issues or whether they could tell anything from it. It would have just helped to get a bit of closure on it, but instead now, I just feel so upset. Honestly the incompetence baffles me! (Im sorry to be harsh, but even if its a human error somewhere, why don't they have systems in place to ensure something like this could not happen??). The consultant was not very good or apologetic. When I asked whether they could do anything now, she said that even if they found it now if it had been lying around in a fridge or cupboard (WFT) they wouldn't be able to use it anyway. I was just so shocked that I mostly had my head in my hands and was crying and couldn't think straight to ask all the right questions. But we want it looked in to what happened. They were half an hour late for our appointment because they had only just realised that this had happened (6.5 weeks later!!!). I made the consultant promise to look in to it and she said she will send us a letter in the next week, but I bet she doesn't. I just still can't believe that this happened.


----------



## Carrie88

Ohymgod bippy. I am sickened to my stomach and so upset to read what you've experienced this afternoon. 
I can not believe the incompetence and insensitivity of the consultant and the department. 
I don't think you're being harsh at all. 
Definetly write to PALs and get this investigated. 
This is completely unacceptable and you must be absolutely heartbroken. 

I'm sending you a massive hug!! I know my words are only words and nothing can make this better but we're all here for you xx


----------



## K jade

Bippy wtf? ??
That's absolutely disgraceful.  I can't tell u how angry I am on your behalf! 
Please make that compliant through PALS . I know your dh is on the case. 
I take it this is an NHS hospital?  
It just begs belief  reading this as exactly the same thing happened to dh and I  four years ago when we attended our NHS hospital for the long awaited results of his biopsy to find out if any sperm was found. 
After waiting at least 30 minutes we too were told ' they must have lost the samples, so  I guess you had no sperm'. Then the nurse said ' actually we don't even have any records of you ever having the op,  how strange!'( he'd had TESE  4 weeks prior under GA)
Reading your experience today just takes my breath away , how this could be repeated to someone else in another part of the UK ? It's horrific and disgraceful 
Get that complaint sent right away     xx


----------



## bippy11

Thank you Carrie, Kjade and Northern. I just really can't get my head around what's happened and I really wanted those results   We have sent our complaint letter. Kjade I can't believe that happened to you with your DHs sperm. That's so terrible. Did you complain at the time? What response did you get? Yes NHS hospital.

Kjade, oh no - you had rain / cold all week?!? It better be sunny when we go, I don't think Ill take to rain and cold as well as you seem to have done! The gym and pool sound good though, and a perfect excuse to eat all you can breakfast   Hope you are feeling good from a bit of a fitness kick. 

Carrie snap, Im waiting for my period too - just want it to arrive so we can get on with things. I think a scratch could disturb your cycle and timings. 

Northern, it's such an exciting time for you with your new job and adoption on the horizon. Is there anything happening at the moment in terms of preparing for the process, or do you literally just have to wait until you can start anything? Have you told people about your decision or not yet?


----------



## Carrie88

I'm just so shocked at the insensitivity of it.
They know what job they're in and how much this means to the patients and they're just treating it like they've lost something insignificant, like papers.
I hope you get a response soon!! 

My period is starting.
More heavy spotting so I've called dr Gorgys clinic and I'm booked in for Monday for a baseline scan so transfer probably end of Feb/beginning of march xx


----------



## K jade

Bippy we did complian yes. They apologised and then pulled out some biopsy report that had the wrong date on it after they didn't return our calls or emails for weeks  ( report said the op was done on the day before it was actually carried out). We dropped it then as we were too upset. It was an awful time. I welcomed the use of donor sperm as a new chapter. 
Glad u sent the complaint  letter. Let them stew on it. 

Thanks for the feedback on my storage issues  
Perhaps I need to visit ikea! 
I will probably keep them in the spare room

Last night of hols tonight I'm really gonna miss eating out as I do all the cooking at home. 
All kicking off for me on Monday.  First dose of supercour. 
Getting nervous I really am. Just gotta keep my eye on the prize is guess 
Carrie we are roughly on the same timescale for transfer xx


----------



## Northern

Bippy I'm absolutely speechless that that happened to you! I thought there were so many measures in place now to stop this kind of thing happening - I'd really be pressing them to let them know its absolutely not ok and also that they should have been more sensitive when they told you about it. 
We're no further with adoption but have had a bit of a setback in that dp's daughter has decided she's against the idea - it seems to have brought back a lot of resentment from her parents' divorce and she's currently ignoring all his attempts to contact her which is really hard. She's 17 and we thought was well on the other side and would see this as a positive but it was always a risk that she could react like this. Hoping she just needs some time and to talk about it properly with dp but will have to wait and see   in the meantime we're doing loads of decorating to make the house more presentable! 

Kjade enjoy your last night of hols x 

Carrie and kjade everything crossed for you both starting cycles xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Awww kjade I hope the holiday blues don't hit you too hard.
I also love eating out every day on holiday, it's my favourite haha! 

Ooh fabulous!! 
Is supercur like buserlin? A down reg drug? Xx

Northern - what a shane about DP daughter. I agree, I think she'll just need Some time to process it. If she doesn't get on board does that jepordise the adoption? Xx


----------



## apples2014

Oh no I’m really behind sorry! 

Bippy what the what? Are you okay. No way this is unacceptable I know these things can just happen!! But what the what? Really. I’m so sorry. Are you guys okay? What happens now? 

Kjade I hope the sun came back and you are having a nice rest though. It’s so cold and 💩 here though. I hope it’s lovely. Hotel gym! Check you out. That is impressive, go girl! 

Carrrie and Mrs C how are you? Hope all okay 

Northern that’s very exciting about your work opportunities. Good luck. My buddy started her adoption process s last week and had a chat with her this week. She’s gone with an agency and sounds good so far, long road of course but thinking of you guys. 

Aley how are you both? The limbo after a BFN is so hard. Hope you’ve found another clinic to have a chat with. Have you contacted Locus Medicus in Greece? They do a free Skype to discuss possible factors to failed cycles.  They are not an actually Ivf clinic so you could get advice from them and crack on with your choice of clinic where you live. 

Hi to everyone, sorry am I missing anyone! 

I’ve been back at work this last week or two so not been on here much. Guys I’m still not better really. I’m not on antibiotics anymore though bit gross but I had to spit into a pot this week to find out what bacteria is on my chest if any and I had a chest X-ray so find out more next week. I’m okay ish but also not quite right. 

I did go to Coventry yesterday and briefly saw Prof Brosen’s. The point of going was it’s just to repeat the biopsy and have the scratch and because it’s the repeat (well been about 5 or 6 times now) it was free but I asked to see him and I explained all about the weird period timings and no period for 53 days and the blob in the scan and he’s going to have a think about all that for me and discuss when I get the biopsy results. I’m so happy we stumbled across this recurrent implantation/ miscarriage clinic because it’s just so helpful. Anyway results in 5 or 6 weeks but that is my scratch set up IF MY CYCLES NOW BEHAVE. I woke up at 6am this morning and couldn’t go back to sleep as worrying about it all. But if all is okay we will try again in March towards end of March I’ve roughly guessed! 
I’ve had blood test results back from GP all clear and even vit D is okay which is a miracle as it feels like many moons since I saw any sun. But thyroid was 2.06 and I know they like it under 2 for Ivf but I’m sure that’s okay. Everything else was all good so know I’ve got those results I will get back in touch with Locus Medicus now. 

I’m really sorry I can’t make the 10th March. My buddy lives in Holland and she’s decided to have a little thing for her 40th that day. We all thought she was going to do this in April but that’s the weekend she has picked so 7 of us are going over to see her. She lives in Amsterdam. We’ve been many times as she’s lived there for 15 years now, since uni really. I can’t not go as my mates have all managed to get their partners to make plans with their kids so it’s just all us girlies together, it will be a laugh but I’m really gutted because I wanted to meet you all. Make sure you do it again as I will come next time. 
My father in law laughed when I said do you might if I go to Amsterdam to hang out with my girlfriends instead of your bday lunch. I don’t think he minds at all. 
But I’m sorry to not meet you guys. 
Lots of love Apples xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Aww apples don't worry, thank you for letting me know.
That sounds like you're going to have a lovely weekend with your friends - lots of fun and just what you need.

Hopefully the Coventry doctor can give you some advice as to the long periods and blob etc. Good news the blood results are ok from the gp as well, that's one worry down.

Sorry to hear you're still not well though!! I bet you just want to feel better now xx


----------



## K jade

Bippy hope your feeling better and that u hear something next week. An apology would be nice 

Apples sorry u can't make the 10th. it sounds like professor B is on your side there fighting your corner trying to get to the bottom of things. I've met him he's such a lovely man.

Holiday blues have well and truly hit me. Aside from the rain dh and I had such a lovely time. 
The diet went out the window.  I ate milk,  bread,  pancakes, cheese (loads) , chocolate, pizza,  pasta  
Whilst  I'm not generally one for fad diets this one definitely helped with my inflammation so I hope I haven't stuffed things right up. 

Northern sorry to hear your SD is being difficult.  I'm sure she just needs time to get her head around things. If she doesn't live with u however I wouldn't worry too much . She doesnt get the final say so. They will be more focused on the immediate members of your household plus your support network ie those who are in support of your application  rather than those who aren't.  Plus as she's nearly an adult herself i think her views are less important  , than say if she were 8 years old and still  needed  full care from her dad on a regular basis  x


----------



## fifibell

Hello everyone 

Firstly I am very sorry for dropping of the radar. I've had a hectic January.

Apples: sorry you won't make it on the 10th March hope you enjoy your trip and hope you feel better soon

Nothern: shame about you dp daughter feelings 're adoption. It can throw up alot of odd feelings for people.We also attended an adoption evening recently it was a real eye opener very informative but quite a lot to take in.
Kjade and Carrie : are you both going again? hope all goes well with your cycles

Bippy: appalled to hear what happened to you. Hope you get some kind of response or resolution.

Aley: sorry to hear you news! What is there to say except we know how you must be feeling.

Hello to anyone I missed. I promise to keep up from now on.

All the best

Fi


----------



## Northern

Kjade thanks, that's really reassuring - I was hoping it wouldn't mean we'd get knocked back because of it, dp is adamant that we don't let it hold us back, but I'm still really gutted as didn't want it to cause anything like this   they've had a great relationship the last year or so, so it's sad that it's caused such a rift.  I'm sure in time it'll work its way out, and both younger and elder ones are fine so that's encouraging.  Glad now that we told them early on so they've chance to let the idea settle before we enquire any more about it with local authority.  Hope you're home ok and the holiday blues don't hit too hard!  Are you back in work today? 

Aw apples sorry you can't make it in March! We will def have to do it again I think this is the start of something haha - sure you'll have a fab time in Amsterdam though! 

Fifibell hope you're well, keeping busy is good it helps the waiting time pass, I can't believe it's February already - another year seems to be flying by already. 

Bippy thinking of you, bet you're still in shock. Hope the hospital respond to you soon and you can speak to someone about what happened xxx

Carrie do you have baseline scan today?  Hope all is looking ok. 

Hi to everyone, hope you had nice weekends xx


----------



## K jade

To be honest I know a couple who recently adopted and the man was fully estranged from his eldest son, and it wasn’t an issue.  As she will most likely be 18 when your in full swing then  her not liking the idea doesn’t really hold that much weight as its not entirely  relevant. She’s not going to be living with  the child nor will  there be much competition for attention  from Dad due to the large age gap. Anyway it sounds like shell come round. Its great that all the other kids are on board

I start bureselin tonight ladies. And im applying for a new job! I can't hang on anymore to the ‘what if’ treatment works because I’ve been saying that for 2 years and it never does.  I cannot stay in my job anymore I’m done here.  Ive been here 8 years. Baby or no baby , I need CHANGE! (and money  )

xx


----------



## Northern

Oh that's exciting Kjade!!  Good on you!  Know exactly what you mean I think we've all done the same - "no point progressing as we'll hopefully be on maternity leave blahblahblah" and here we all are still at work    Are you going for a complete change? 
Xx


----------



## K jade

complete change northern
I want to work for local authority. with looked after children. which I know sounds ludicrous right now. also I avoided leaving my current workplace as we do or rather did have an infertility cloud hanging here. (not one pregnancy in 7 years in a women only office). I wandered how id cope in another workplace where there are likely to be a lot of pregnant women. 
however that cloud appears to have lifted somewhat.  so it doesn't matter anymore. There are pregnant women here too !
but it was all excuses really. I was finding reasons to stay in my comfort zone.
but staying here is doing nothing for me . its time to go and the time is now!
xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Oh kjade that holidays diet sounds perfect!! Everything I love and eat a lot of haha!! 
First day back at work today? 
Good for you on a change of job, that sounds quite exciting. I'm sure you'll definetly be able to find a job in that field with your experience, they're always crying out for people.


Yes northern  baseline scan today.
I'm on the train now.
I hope everything's ok.
My period was so light this time, I didn't even need anything, it was essentially really heavy spotting. Guessing the scratch affected it? Xx


----------



## K jade

Carrie itll be the scratch
mine was always the same
think it takes away a lot of your lining


I had to chase my request for clexane and pred as the clinic had not got back to me. just received an email saying that 'one of the nurses will call me today' so I hope there is no drama. worried they will flip out cause I showed them a private prescription. they are so against  private here in Wales youd think it were the anti Christ!


----------



## Carrie88

Oh kjade I'm sure they won't be.
Would be a poor show if it was!! Xx


----------



## K jade

they called
its a YES! no questions  asked. 
Just need to pick up the script from reception
woop woop!  

hope baseline went well carrie
xx


----------



## K jade

Sh!t 

I just injected too much burselin 
1.5 instead of 0.5. I got the dose wrong

What shud I do?


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade you'll be ok don't worry 
Call your clinic tomorrow to put your mind at ease but don't panic, I did the same once. I was meant to drop it down to 0.20 and I did 0.50 for 2 days cos of habit.
It's only a down reg drug so doesn't really make any difference, your ovaries will be super quiet.
Great news about the clexane as well, that will save you sooo much money!! 


I've had a good day with dr Gorgy.
He was in a cracking mood.
He took my research papers and read them, then got out his medical books and then agreed to give me tamoxifen. He kept my research papers and said he's going to read them at bed time tonight xx


----------



## K jade

Thanks hun. Can't believe I completely od'd.  It's my first injection and I have 2 weeks more to do so hopefully wont make too much of a difference 

Great news on your appointment glad it went well. Hope DrG enjoys his bedtime reading LOL! 
Is tamoxifen tabs or jabs? xx


----------



## Carrie88

Honestly lovely it won't of. Down reg doesn't matter too much but defo ring them to put your mind at ease.

Tamoxifen are tablets lovely xx


----------



## K jade

Thanks hun
I'm not doing well today.  Broke the food blender too! X


----------



## Carrie88

Oh god. I have those days. 
Days where I think I just want to go to bed and stay there cos I know I'm safe and can't break anything else. 
I've just got home, long ass day xx


----------



## Angedelight

Hi all

Bippy that's awful that you had to go through that. Really hope PALS get you answers quickly. I hope you're ok. Wanting to get some answers as to why it all happened and then having that taken away- that's a huge thing to have to process. Thinking of you.

KJade- your holiday was well timed!. Glad you enjoyed it. Hopefully you're all ready to tackle this next cycle. Sending lots of positive vibes!!. And with the job- go for it. We have all put our lives on hold for far too long and thinking positively- I'm sure the maternity benefits would be better with LA??. Also I'm sure your meds mix up will be fine. Sorry you had a results issue too- did you never actually find out if there was any sperm?. That's awful your DH went through that and no outcome. Good news on the prescription!.

Carrie- amazing that you're educating Dr G!!. Glad you got your prescription. So you're doing a medicated FET? What do you do?. Just to get an idea for mine. So timescale is 4-5 weeks from CD1??. Keeping everything crossed for this one.

Northern- I'm sure SD will come round in time, and like others have said, due to her age and that she doesn't live with you full time it doesn't sound like a deal breaker. Does she know about your treatment and why you've come to this decision?. It sounded like your stepson got it after he knew about it all. Do you have to wait the 6 months since your last cycle to start or can you do much in the interim?.

Apples- sorry not to see you in the 10th but Amsterdam will be great. Really hope you start to feel better soon.

Aley- hope you're ok.

Fifibell- hope you're doing ok.

Hi anyone else.

Just thinking about all the work chat- I was getting annoyed the other day that I'm still working full time at this age! I was convinced I'd be really part time by now due to having kids. The NHS does good maternity benefits- if I don't get to use them I'll be so annoyed!!. 

I'm just on holiday countdown. Week on Thursday!. I think once we are back I'll be full on into planning the next round. Quite nice at the moment having a break from it all. Well a physical break as I still think about it all the time!!.

X


----------



## Carrie88

MrsC - oh how exciting till your holiday!! Is everything sorted? Have you started packing? 
My transfer will roughly be in 2 weeks 5 days ha!! 
I reckon week beginning monday 26th Feb....
So by the 10th there's a high chance I'll be doing shots...xx


----------



## K jade

CANCELLED! !!  
Cant  beleive it!!! 
Need to await AF then start again on day 21

Just a bit worried humira will be starting to wear off.  
Spose it should be OK as supposed to stick around 4-6 ?months

PS I Carrie should I email FGA and let them know. although nothing was booked in i'm supposed to be attending there in 3 weeks for intralipids
also will the steroids top up the effects of the humira and keep inflammation down?

cant believe I totally botched this. this time the only person I can blame is me!


----------



## Baking Queen

I can’t believe that Kjade! I took Humira at the beginning of January with a view to transferring mid March and that was fine. Do you know you can get intralipids done locally for far cheaper than with Dr G?
BQ. xx


----------



## Carrie88

Erm what? 
Why cancelled??its just a down reg drug? Xx


----------



## Northern

Kjade you're kidding!!? Because of one overdose of down-reg on the first day?? That seems a bit extreme! 
Oh bless you honey how frustrating!!


----------



## K jade

I know!!! 
waiting for the nurse to call me back  as all this was on a voicemail

BQ yeh that's a good point
crgw do them for less that half the price. But I would need initial consultation first (at £150) OR referral letter from FGA . im not sure sure fga would be keen on doing that as It means they lose out money wise

thanks ladies I could really kick myself right now. HARD!


----------



## Baking Queen

Ah ok - I was a patient there so I just give them a written copy of my protocol.

I can’t believe it. You’d think they’d drop your dose and scan you in a few days. 

Hopefully the time will fly by for you - we may be cycle buddies! 

BQ. xx


----------



## Carrie88

Exactly what BQ says.
It's just a down reg drug.
There really is no reason to cancel.
Make sure you ask there reason as to why xx


----------



## K jade

She called me back. She spoke with consultant and apparently it could mess things right up and cause a cyst . So fuming with myself  

BQ how many intralipids did you have before transfer? I've been advised 1 only on day 5 of  stims and I'm hoping it's enough to keep cytokines in check if they start to rise again..plus I'll be having 25mg steroids 

Carrie what do u think.. should I drop fga a line? 
X


----------



## Baking Queen

I’m having one around 10 days before transfer - I’m doing an FET but that sounds about the same as you. Then another if I get a BFP, then at 8, 12 and 16 weeks. I start Prednisolone a few days before transfer. 
Good luck.
BQ. xx


----------



## Carrie88

Could? 
Could? 
So not will? I would ask to carry on and see? Worst you're gonna lose is the cost of buserlin and a scan if you do have cysts? I over dosed twice on buserlin and was fine? 

Also sorry to your question lovely:

Yes I would drop them a line.
Yes steroids will drop your cytokines 
When are you starting them? Xx


----------



## K jade

BQ that sounds similar to mine. from what I remember your immune results were also similar. have you done anything else this cycle? did you do hydroxy in the end?

carrie thanks ill email them now
I didn't argue it in the end. probably should have. urgh! 
that's good the pred will get it down . 
ill stick to my healthy eating too as that seems to have helped


----------



## Carrie88

Yes just email them. Oh kjade I'm so gutted for you!! Even though I think it's OTT. I bet if you google it, loads of people have done it.

I've had a call from dr gorgys office to say my thyroid has gone down to 0.04!!!
They're waiting to speak to him about what to do RE thyroxine xx


----------



## Baking Queen

I obviously haven’t taken Humira but I am taking Hydroxychloroquine as my TNF was so high. Just waiting to see my rheumatologist as I’ve now had positive ANA and ENA tests so it looks like I may have another underlying autoimmune problem. All a bit of a long story that has resulted in my having to have an eye operation 3 weeks ago. 
BQ. xx


----------



## K jade

omg baking queen that sounds scary! the emergency op i mean. ANA is anti nuclear antibodies right?
oh yes now I remember you saying that you tnfa had increased . hopefully the hydroxyl has tackled that head on for you.  

carrie omg that's come right down . I guess his advice will be to decrease the thyroid meds ..

just emailed them now. hopefully no drama !! xx


----------



## apples2014

Oh nooooo! 

Aw honey am sorry. Hope they call you soon. Can you ask to speak to a consultant ? 
Grrrr! 

Xxx


----------



## Baking Queen

Turns out I didn’t have a positive ANA and she thinks the positive ENA was a faulty test kit! No autoimmune issues! She said she was glad I was on Hydroxychloroquine and she’d put it in the water if she could because it’s such a useful drug! 
Carrie and Kjade - hope you get everything sorted - it’s not what you need at the moment.
Take care.
BQ. xx


----------



## fifibell

Hey  on the way home just reading your emails.

Kjade like the others I'm shocked they cancelled. Sensible thing to do would to scan you now see how you go and adjust meds accordingly.
Majorly frustrating!!.


----------



## Angedelight

Noooo KJade! I'm shocked. Surely you can just have 0.25 for a couple of days to even it out and check all is ok with a scan?! The course of fertility treatment never does run smoothly- as we all know. Get hold of Dr G for peace of mind. Like you say, get back on the healthy eating, anti inflammatory smoothies etc so you can feel like you're still doing something. So annoying though!.

Carrie after seeing your post I got worried that I've been taking 100mg levothyroxine and not had it re tested since October!. I've just phoned up an endocrinologist who specialises in thyroid pre/during/post pregnancy. A mere £220 for a consultation and then £110 for follow ups!. Anyway, I'll book in for after holidays and get it all looked at properly. Don't think the NHS will do anything for me given that they consider <5 normal. Sounds like Dr G is on it all- do you reckon I'd be better waiting to see him for all of it including thyroid?. Kill two birds with one stone and save £££s??.

BQ- glad you don't have anymore issues! 

X


----------



## Carrie88

I am still freaking out. 
0.04 and the cut off is 0.3/0.4 so it's got to rise in 2 weeks. 

I don't understand how guys had me on 50mcg daily and it was always around 2.2. 
Dr Gorgy had me on 25mcg and then alternate 25/50/25/50 and now it's 0.04.

His nurse told me he's said drop to 1x25mcg and re test in 3-4 weeks.
I'm transferring in 3!!!
I wanna stop it all together or alternate the dose 25/nothing/25/nothing. 
I'm getting it tested at my GP this morning as I just don't understand the reading. 

MrsC - hmm when are you planning on seeing dr g? I'd probably just wait and do it through him? Xx


----------



## K jade

thanks fifi.  I know I was a bit OTT to cancel . im gutted . I hope feb will fly by so I can get going again

carrie so sorry your dealing with this stress. I hate thyroid issues. they are so pesky and  unpredictable. have you changed your diet. mine started flying down when I ate more healthy. it was below 1 last time I tested I think. big old dominos and a tub of ice cream maybe to get it up a little!? 

mrsC id wait to see Dr Gorgy. don't bother with testing elsewhere. hell cover it all for you. am with you on not being able to benefit from maternity leave! so unfair. cant we just have it anyway? 

so Sharon from FGA  got back to me and said it would be fine to cycle next month and the intralipids will also keep that tnfa down! thank god!!  just need march to hurry the hell up
at least i wont be post EC now when we meet up. so can have a drink!


having a bit of a wobble today about the whole donor stuff. something I haven't given thought to for  years. DH doesn't want to tell our resulting child. nor do I really. I know we're not supposed to think  that way.  Not that I care really . I just want a baby now.


----------



## bippy11

Hi Ladies, 

Kjade, such a shame you had to postpone your cycle and transfer. I think I would have tried to fight it, but then you also want everything to be just right and if it didn't work out and got delayed even further because of a cyst or something you wouldn't want to have any nagging thoughts of 'oh was it because I made that mistake and injected too much'.. Itll be nice to have a drink with you in March, I don't think I should be off the booze yet then either  

Carrie this sounds really stressful. I don't know much about thyroid. Does the GP results confirm it's too low? 

BQ great that you will soon be trying for another one! Sounds scary with your eye operation, have you recovered from it? 

MrsC - I know - maternity leave! One day we'll get it and it'll be amazing! Glad you are enjoying a bit of a break from treatment. 

Northern Im sorry your SD is against the idea of you adopting, I really hope she will come round. Do you think she will? Maybe she just needs a bit of time to get used to the idea. Great that you are decorating, always quite nice to spruce things up a bit. 

Apples I hope Coventry get to the bottom of things for you. 

Hi Aley and Fifi, hope you're well x

I've managed to pick myself up a bit from Friday's blow. We've heard back from the complaint and they have been very apologetic and seem to be treating it with the respect and seriousness that it should be (shame that wasn't the case on Friday). They have traced our tissue - apparently rather than taking a sample as they normally would and sending that off for testing, they have sent it all off - to another hospital but not the one they usually would.. so it seems for some reason normal procedure has not been followed. Anyway they are investigating and will get back to us soon. 

Ive still not had a period and it's now over 7 weeks since miscarriage. (Im not pregnant, my body is just slow and doesn't have normal cycles due to PCOS). Dr has agreed that if I still haven't got period by 8 weeks I can take norethisterone to bring on a bleed. I will then take chlomid to make me ovulate so I can get this biopsy done at Coventry. Then hopefully transfer cycle after that - seems like forever away! But at least we can get started on something and chunk it up in to little stages to help make the time go.. 

Ladies Im going to be co-running a support group. I've been going on and off for a few years and the person running it couldn't continue so I have now got the training (quite short and simple) from Fertility Network UK to be a volunteer. So hopefully I will be able to support others going through this hell. 

So excited, 2 days left till much-needed holiday yippee   (I might not be able to keep up on here as I tend to stay offline on holiday..)


----------



## K jade

bippy that's amazing well done! I would love to do something like that in the future.
i'm glad you got an apology and does this mean that you will get the results after all? I hope you do. 
hopefully you will get better weather than us, but do take  a jacket and jumper/s. it is cold there in the evenings. oh and dressing gown too. as they have no heating there in the hotels. im such an old woman! xx


----------



## bippy11

Thank you kjade   I hope Im not taking on too much, but hopefully I can manage it. 
I don't know if we'll get results, it might be too late depending on how well it was stored. It should have been tested straight after, so I won't get my hopes up. But Im glad they seem to be taking it seriously and are looking in to it. 
Thanks for the tip, Ill bear it in mind for packing this evening, although I doubt Ill fit a dressing gown in my bag!  I do like to be cosy though, so Ill bring a nice warm jumper. Forecast looks fairly good, no rain so hopefully we will be luckier with the weather than you. 

Have you managed to reset your horizon with the delay? It's always disappointing to have to do that, but hopefully the time will go quick for you. I think a few of us might get going around the same time x


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade - my diet is worse now than ever haha, so I don't think it's that. I think I've worked it out. I've always been on thyroxine around transfer and for about 1/2 months before as my thyroid is normally between 2.5-3. I've been on thyroxine since last summer so maybe I've been on it for too long? If its not risen I'm not transferring.
That's great Sharon confirmed for you everything is still ok and you won't need to repeat humira  phew!! Haha and yes now you can drink next month xx

Bippy - yes the gp has also confirmed its way too low and I've over suppressed on thyroxine, as a result my T4 is now out of range as well. I'm so glad your complaint has been taken seriously (as it should of) - do you know when you'll get any answers? 
Sounds good with the plan RE Coventry and the NKC biopsy and how lovely you're able to help with the support network to support other women. I'd love to work in an ivf clinic as admin cos I would 100% understand what everyone's going through.
I hope you have a lovely holiday with your husband, you deserve it xx

Hey to all you other lovely ladies, hope you're having a nice weekend


----------



## K jade

Carrie your issues with your thyroid got me thinking I woke up this morning with the realisation that since may 2015 my TSH readings are as follows:
may 2015: 1.08
dec 2016: 1.38
May 2017: 0.97
October 2017: *0.80!!* (getting a bit low like yours)

my free t4 has gone:
may '15: 12.5 (borderline low)
dec '16: 12.2 (borderline low)
may '17: 14.8 (better)
oct '17: 16.2 (much better)

so free t4 has risen while TSH has dropped
wtf?!? wander if the anti depressants did this, which I have now stopped. I cant really do anything about it, as Im cycling next month no matter what but I don't get why its fluctuated like that. im not on thyroid meds, never have been, and Dr G said my all was a OK with my thyroid. anti bodies are negative.

what was your Free t4?
xx


----------



## Carrie88

Hello!! 

Are yours that low without thyroxine? 

Mine are: 

TSH: 0.04 
T3: 6.8
T4: 24.8

So my T4 has got higher as my tsh has got lower xx


----------



## K jade

yes without thyroxine. never taken it in my life

and me!
my freeT4 has got higher whilst my TSH has got lower and lower. 
my t4 needed to go up as it was borderline low
but its making my tsh sink right down . 
and it all seems to be doing it of its own accord!


----------



## Carrie88

Hmm is that meant to happen? 

Numerous people have told me mine is due to over suppressing on the thyroid medication.
You don't think you're naturally hyper do you? 
You're getting close being 0.80 as the cut off is 0.40, however I do know thyroid can fluctuate anyway? Xx


----------



## K jade

Yeh because its the TSH that drives the free  t4. when the t4 gets too low the TSH responds by increasing to drive it up. when the t4 gets higher the TSH lowers as it doesn't have  to work as hard
so it makes sense that our t4 has risen while  TSH has dropped. I thinks its a sort of feedback loop

is there any treatment for low TSH? i know in your case your stopping thyroid meds but in my case ive never been on these in the first place
so weird ?!


----------



## Carrie88

Ohhh I see, that makes sense.

I'm sure there must be.
People that have Graves' disease - that's hyper in thyroid terms and I'm sure they're on meds xx


----------



## K jade

im so confused
it looks like I might be heading for the hyper category but how the EFF that's happened is anyone's guess!
I tested neg for anti bodies as my levels were within the normal reference ranges. 

theres literally no point at all in me worrying about it as I cant change it now, ill just have to trust Dr G as he didn't think anything was up thyroid wise. 
if im not successful this time ill have it checked again
arrrgghhhhh!!! so annoying isn't it
this is why I hate thyroid stuff as its majorly confusing and I don't think 2 doctors really agree on the same thing 
xx


----------



## Carrie88

It is majorly confusing and I think a lot of people understand it - I don't really. Drs have different things as well, like NHS wanted it below 2.5, Gorgy below 2.

I know the optimal is between 1 & 2 - I'm hoping mine will get upto 1 xx


----------



## Joyb123

Hi everyone,

I'm hoping it's ok to ask you a question on here.  I haven't had 'multiple' negatives.....just the one so far (first cycle) but as this group is the most active I figured it might be ok to ask on here?

I've just gone through my first cycle and it came back BFN.  I am beyond heartbroken.  I stupidly expected it to work....that's what our wombs are for! I just can't believe it hasn't worked and it's knocked ALL my confidence thinking that it might not work on the next go either. I'm having to self fund this and as a potential single parent all the money I was saving was for baby not for the actual treatment.  

ANYWAY...my question to you lovely ladies is this...

I've already booked in for round 2 and have to go to the consent signing first.  Will they tell me what went wrong (in their best guess) and therefore modify it accordingly or do they just bung you on exactly the same protocol as before and hope for the best?  

Do you usually get feedback about what went wrong so that they can try and remedy this next time?

I didn't have a bad cycle, in fact everything went swimmingly well (pun intended), had a good number of eggs collected and fertalised but ended up with a 4 cell put back on day 2 and nothing to freeze on day 5.  2 embies had made it to day 5 but not good enough to freeze.  I can't help but think if they had waited to day 5 and put those 2 lesser quality embies back would I now be pregnant.  Instead they insisted on doing a 2 day transfer of the leading one.  Do we not get a say in when they put one back? I would also like to insist they put two embryos back on the next go but the NHS clinic are so strict on this and the risk of multiple pregnancy.  But I don't care....I'd love twins! But we don't get a say do we? 

Thank you so much for reading.  Any advice gratefully appreciated. 

xxx


----------



## K jade

Hi joy did u know why they opted for a day 2 transfer? Usually clinics try for at least day 3 , ideally day 5. 
Id ask this info from your consultant  if you can. Embies deteriorating before day three indicates an egg issues. Post day 3 indicates a sperm issues.  Try to find out when the drop off took place. 
U don't say how old u are . Obviously the older u are the harder it is with own eggs, although still perfectly do-able,  often takes more attempts 
Are u on any supplements for egg quality? I take ubiquonol coq10.  At least 200mg is best. 
xx


----------



## Angedelight

Hi ladies

Hope everyone had a good weekend and Monday has been ok.

KJade. Totally get what you say about donor. It still makes me sad that DH and I have been together 17 years and yet can't have a biological child (or any child at this rate!) together. When we did the donor cycles I didn't care once I was in the thick of it, but having time to think like now in between cycles brings it all up. Hopefully once you're back cycling you won't think about it and telling/not telling is whatever feels right for you both. Glad your humira will still be good. 

Carrie- I've been really worried about my thyroid since all your stuff! I spoke to the private endocrinologist but on yours and KJades advice I'll wait till I see Gorgy. I have booked a blood test for TSH at my GPs for when I'm back from my holiday, will be very interested to see what it is after all this levothyroxine. I've also had this weird shoulder pain for a good few weeks now, I'm convinced it's frozen shoulder and thyroid related!. 

Bippy- really glad that your complaint has been taken seriously. I do hope you can get the results still. That's amazing about that group. If I ever get through the other side of this I'd like to retrain as something with a specialist interest in fertility to support others. Have a fab holiday. Really sorry your body is not playing ball- hope it sorts itself out soon.

Hi Joy. There's a thread on here by a lady called Agate called learning from your failed cycle with questions to ask. It might not all be relevant but will give you some good pointers. I would also recommend you read 'It Starts with the egg' by Rebecca Fett so you can get your eggs as good as possible before your next cycle. Good luck.

Hi Aley and fifibell hope you're both doing ok.

Apples are you feeling any better yet? 

Northern any update on your SD?. Really hope she comes round to it all.

Hi anyone else.

I cannot wait to go on holiday! Last year the only time I got on a plane was to go to Athens for treatment. I cannot wait to sit in departures with a Bloody Mary and the promise of lots of sunshine and relaxing!!. Anyone recommend any good reads?.

X


----------



## Joyb123

Thank you for the replies. 

K Jade - they said that mine were showing signs of (slight) fragmentation. They also said because they had identified a leader on day 2 then best to get it where it belongs than wait. I’m 36 years old so still fairly “young”, never had an issue with periods as they run like clockwork. I’ve not had alcohol for 3 months prior to treatment and was taking a multi vitamin for pre conception. I’ll look into the one you mentioned though. 

That’s interesting about day 2 suggesting egg quality. Always assumed I had happy eggs. All the women in my family have conceived no issue. 

Mrs C - thank you for that. I will try and find that thread. Although it’s  hard to find anything in this huge forum. But that would be really great to see. Thank you. 

All the best to all. I’m trying to keep positive in that sometimes it is just an anomoly and pot luck if you get preg. X


----------



## K jade

MrsC That's a great question about good reads. .
Anyone else notice all the books on the best seller table are centrered around some crazy barren woman. 
'Girl on the train' 'the woman before me' and 'local girl missing' are all recent reads of mine staring yours truly. 

Joy definitely don't write yourself off , unfortunately most first cycles fail and that doesn't necessarily indicate anything is wrong. I would agree with MrsC get your self a copy of It starts with the egg. Excellent advice in there. Xx


----------



## Angedelight

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=261901.0
Joy here is the thread then it mentions others on same page with links. Good luck!


----------



## apples2014

Hi joybe

I’m sorry it didn’t work it’s really hurts, first time, 4th time, 8th time it hurts. 

You need to book your follow up consultant and prepare questions to go through the cycle. How many eggs weee good enough quality for IVf? All of them? We’re any grainy or not mature or too mature? Ask them this ! What is youth aMH ? If the NHs didn’t do it for you ask them to do it now! Ask for more details about your partners sperms, what is a good percentage of the right shape? Do they move fast enough? Did you need any extra support for the sperm as part of the treatment. How many embryos ? 

I think and I don’t want to say for sure but I think clinics pop them back on day 2 if they think the embryo is dividing and doing it’s thing okay but sometimes if there is only ONE embryo that is good and there are no others they pop back on day 2 to hope that it might get sticky and stay. 

There is a lady on here called Agate, search her name and in her signature she’s done a link you can click onto with advice for a failed cycle and questions to ask your clinic. Have a look. Good luck and hope my waffle helped you. It’s sad, just be together and do something you both like doing and then dust yourselves down and get in front of your consultant and ask them what they think. Really good luck. Xx


Hi everyone else. Really just a quick hello. Mrs C I have to say that I read a book on holiday last year called Eleanor Oliphant is completely fine and it was fabulous so have a look at that. Very well written and it’s a great story. I loved it. I also enjoyed Truly Madly Guilty by Lianne Moriarty she also wrote Big Little lies which I didn’t know was a book until after watched the Tv series and another book I loved was called The Dry by Jane Harper and I didn’t think I would be into that as it’s based on a murder but oh my goodness it was excellent a perfect holiday page turner and not so much about the murder it’s a good read. Ha ha I sound like a librarian! 

Aley how are you? 

How is everyone else doing? 

My mum had a heart attack on Saturday and it’s been so scary but she is okay and they put two stents through her right artery in an emergency situation she is really lucky they said as it was a big one. Obviously you know my dad died a few years ago of a massive blood clot so she’s on her own now. She is stable and okay and they discharged her tonight so my brother is with her this evening. I’ve been at the hospital most of the weekend but I had my nhs scan today and a phone chat arranged with Locus Medicus so I was home today but I’m going tomorrow to stay with her for a week. She is stable but really shaken up. My poor mummy. 

I will write back anothe day about Locus Medicus I didn’t really have full focus on it because thinking about Mum but I’m not sure what they can do as yet. I need to send them so results of bloods from immunes but he was talking about stuff that I’ve had checked and he wants to re check and I’m not sure about that! I’m really tired though. 

Hello to everyone else. Lots of love Apples xxx


----------



## Angedelight

Apples so sorry to hear about your Mum. Sending lots of positive vibes for a speedy recovery. That's great you can stay with her and keep her company. 

I've read Eleanor Oliphant- loved it. And that Lianne Moriaty one- it felt like a personal blow mid way through when it started talking about failed IVF and egg donation!. Will look up The Dry.

Kjade- loved Girl on The Train. Will check out the other 2.
Anymore anyone? I read a lot when I'm away!

X


----------



## fifibell

Morning ladies

All the thyroid  stuff is super confusing. I was on 25mg a day for my last cycle but my tsh was about 1.74 which I think is median. But not sure.
Apples  best wishes sorry to hear about your mum.

I quite like Gillian Flynn she wrote gone girl. I think she's got a new book out now. Forget what it's called. 

Girls I am struggling with fatigue, I feel tired all the time no matter how much sleep I get.  Anyone else feel like this I'm hoping it's just the weather...


----------



## Carrie88

Morning to you all,

Welcome Joy. Regards to follow ups I always find them quite disappointing as they can never tell you why it's not worked, just why they think. 
Sounds like you had a good egg collection and fertilisation so stim wise they probably will keep everything the same.
Definetly up the supplements for next time. My last egg collection I took ubiqional, omega 3 and vitamin d and it made a big difference. 
Every bfn hurts, doesn't matter which one it is and I'm sending you a massive hug and love.
I also agree, agates learning from your failed cycle thread is great xx

MrsC - god I think I've got everyone paranoid about their thyroid ha! Hopefully yours will be ok. Oooh I bet you can't wait till that holiday!! When do you go? 
I loved stalker by lars Keplen. 
I'm reading IT by Stephen king at the moment.
I am very horror-y. 
Giovanni Fletchers books (tom from Mcflys wife) also look like a nice chick flick read xx

Apples - so sorry to hear about your mum, that must be been so scary. My husbands dad had a heart attack in November and needed a couple of stents put in. It's amazing how quickly people bounce back once the stents are in and fingers crossed she'll be back on her feet in no time. Sending love to you and your family xx

Fifibell - yes I've been feeling tired all the time. I've been moaning about it. I've upped my vitamin D but I don't know if it's my thyroid that's made me feel so tired xx


I had my lining scan yesterday.
As you know I have problems with my lining - well yesterday parts of it measured 9mm and he averaged it out at 8mm. 
His words: you're making me start to believe in tamoxifen.

I was happy with that!! 
He's taken bloods to check I'm not on my way to ovulating as tamoxifen is an ovulation induction drug. Results today. He wants me back down Friday or Monday for another lining scan xx


----------



## Joyb123

Thank you so much to everyone for your advice and support. I have found the Agate link. Wow. That’s amazing and really helpful. I know the answer to many of those questions already as they were really good at keeping me informed on the journey. And everything was text book going well. So I think it’s perhaps down to either egg quality, sperm quality or just plain bad luck and law of averages mean it may work on another attempt. 

I will definitly look into vitamins and doing everything I can to improve my egg quality. But nowt I can do about the sperm, sadly. 

Thank you again to all and lots of love. Xxx


----------



## Angedelight

Joy I've just read your signature properly- so sorry to hear about your DH. I so hope it works for you so he can live on in your child. You're so brave to do this on your own. 
X


----------



## K jade

carrie that's a little dancing banana there for your lining!   great news! tamoxifen all the way. And well done for standing your ground there

mrsC try the Woman Before Me. yes again the lead is a crazy barren woman but if you can get past that it is a good , if very sad, story. 

apples so sorry to hear about your mum xx

fifi im not tired so much but do just want to hibernate all the time and probably due to the weather.  as soon as I get home my PJs are on. some weekends I only get dressed to walk the dog them im back in them again !


im starting to struggle with the effects of the humira . my hands are seizing up in the cold and when I type and my left knee has become very weak , so much so its getting harder to drive. other than that I feel very good and as I said , no migraines or fatigue anymore. 

has anyone tried aloe vera juice? is it supposed to be good for fertility/ inflammation?


----------



## K jade

FFS I've just calculated that EC will be on good Friday!  

Now I'm not even sure if that will be possible as I think my clinic shut up shop during seasonal bank holidays or at least operate on reduced staffing
I'm not even sure if the lab is open over easter weekend !
I'm dreading this will be ANOTHER cancellation 
Right now I'm booked in for baseline on 16th and 1st stims scan 23rd as evidently the haven't clocked that Easter's early this year. 

Stressed and pretty much polished of the entire box of chocolates dh got me even though I'm meant to be being good   

Carrie do FGA do intralipids on a SAT?


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade - the effects of humira sound nasty!! Is that meant to happen? 
I know guys do collections on bank holidays and see people as I had a stim scan on good Friday once so you should be ok but check with your clinic. 

Yes fga should do intralipids on a Saturday - they only open till 12pm though xx


----------



## K jade

Yeh its not great. however today im better as its not so cold. so hands are not as stiff although the weird knee is still going !

OK I called FGA no intralipids on a Saturday sadly!
I need them done on day 7-10 of stims. day 7 will be a thurs, day 8 will be a Friday (1st stim scan) and days 9 and 10 are the weekend!
I really wanted them done _after _ my 1st stim scan, as if ive had a [email protected] response and am cancelled, I don't want to have wasted £275 on them. 
however its looking like this isn't possible. 
so I think im going to have to chance it and get them done on the Thursday unless I travel up Friday after my scan. I don't think that will be possible really. 
omg this is stress!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ive booked by train ticket for the 10th girls. will be getting into B'ham about midday then 7.00pm train home
is that what others are doing?


----------



## Carrie88

Oh that's annoying.
I've never been able to see Gorgy then so don't see why they bother opening.
Could you go to the welsh clinic mrs C goes to for them? 
Is it CWRC? 

Similar times 
My train gets in to Birmingham new street at 12.18pm and leaves at 6pm.

I've never been to Birmingham so not sure what's there a sign a meeting point.
I'm guessing there'll be an upper crust or Burger King as there always is haha xx


----------



## K jade

oh great similar times then. where did you book again was it revs?

yeh I think im gonna have to ask crgw for intralipids
, do u think G will be OK with that or would his nose be out of joint if I went elsewhere? xx


----------



## Pognut

Just butting in to say that that Independent Nursing place near ARGC do intralipids if you have a prescription, and it's a LOT cheaper than ARGC/Dr G, apparently. Details here: http://www.insuk.co.uk/


----------



## K jade

thanks pognut that's really helpful
im actually just waiting for CRGW to get back to me as they _may_ be able to do mine. fingers crossed. its more the travel to London that's the problem as the days im required to have them are awkward (1 is my scan the other 2 are the weekend)


----------



## Angedelight

Carrie- the lining!!!! OMG- impressive. I texted that med info to my friend who has thin lining issues. Good luck with next scan-is it today?.

KJade- CGRW did mine no probs. As you know I had a second opinion chat with Amanda at their Bristol site. Then rocked up to Cardiff a month later for intralipids- they didn't even ask to see a prescription or anything so I'm sure you'll be fine. And she didn't prescribe them for me either. Plus much cheaper. Hope it gets sorted. They must work over bank holidays for EC, they must know it's Easter! love how you've got it timetabled!. Mine always varied.

Well I'm at the airport. Flight delayed. Only by an hour and a half and we got £15 restaurant vouchers each for it so I'm ok with that!. After last months day 9 ovulation I came away with 2 clear blue sticks left. Today is fay 9 - nothing!. Thought I'd get some at the airport. They don't sell them!. I guess really why would they?!. It's not what people want to take on hols with them!. Luckily I also have the dead cheap ones that a friend gave me- I was going to do both to be doubly sure- but am putting my faith in the basics!.

With our meet up I can get in at 11:56 or 12:56. This will be the first blind date I've ever been on 😂😂😂 Although I know what Carrie looks like from Insta thankfully so I won't be asking randoms if they're the fertility friends meet up!!

Hi everyone else 

X


----------



## K jade

Ha MrsC that made me chuckle about asking randoms if  it was a fertility meet up  
I would hAve thought that peeps go on holiday with ov sticks? Doesn't sound unreasonable to me especially if they are taking an optimistic honeymoon lol
What a shame the airport don't stock them. That's great they gave u a voucher for the delay!  

OK crgw can do my intralipids for 250. I would need 1 appointment with them before costing 100 then 150 for the intras ..... I guess this is the best option x


----------



## Carrie88

Kjade - dr Gorgy will be fine with you going elsewhere, he was with me for the scratch. That defo sounds like a better option, cheaper and closer to home. He'll be fine with that xx

MrsC - next scan is Monday. I bet it doesn't grow anymore as I was only on the tablets for a few days but im happy how it is. 
Hahaha about the ov sticks!! You're right though, I've never seen them in the airport boots. It doesn't sound unreasonable to me though, honeymoon!! 
That's great you got vouchers for that delay, hope you had a lovely cocktail before boarding!! 
Have an amazing time, you bloody deserve it xx

Yes revolution is booked 
The one that gets you in for 12pm is best as I think I booked the table for 1pm.
Hahaha that's handy you know what I look like, I'll have my ivfbabble pin on my coat as well xx


----------



## fifibell

Hey all.

My train arrives at new street station at around 12 as well. But my train back is a bit earlier around 4 I think I hope that will be enough time.
I've been off work the last few days with a cold and still feeling under the weather. I have been binge watching the series line of duty on Netflix. Anyone else seen it ? It's quite good. Have to attend a friend's birthday party this evening not sure I have the energy.
Hope everyone else is well. Mrs c enjoy your trip. 
Carrie hope your scan goes well on Monday.


----------



## bippy11

Hola Senoritas! Im back from holiday!   It was fab, lots of walking, running, cycling and yoga, but also lots of relaxing and eating to balance things out! And a bit of swimming in the freezing cold sea! There were lots of young families with little ones about, which at times was a bit hard. Also quite a few nudists about! KJade I think we had better weather than you, but still a few cold days and evenings very cold, so ended up wearing my jeans every night and taking home a lot of clean summer clothes that I had optimistically still insisted on packing.. 

I have tried to catch up on what I missed on here, didn't go near an internet device all week, so fell quite behind! 

Mrs C hope you have a wonderful holiday. I just read Bone Clocks by David Mitchell. Amazing book, also loved Cloud Atlas, so going to try out some more from him. Enjoy the sunshine and reading and relaxing   xxx

Carrie great news about your lining! Im going to ask my Dr about Tamoxifin too. Wonder if its similar to Merional, which is what I took which is also a stimulating drug. 

Kjade, really really hope timings work out so you don't have to cancel another cycle! If they know this far in advance, maybe they can adjust the doses to manage it so that EC falls when they are open. 

Apples Im so sorry to hear about your poor mum. Hope her recovery will go well, she is lucky to have your there looking after her. 

Fifi we recently binge-watched line of duty - sooo good! I wish there was more! hope you recover from your cold soon, maybe that is why you were feeling tired if that was coming on. 

Aley and Northern, hope you are both well. 

I took Norethisterone on hols, so now am just waiting for a withdrawal bleed and then I can get started on chlomid to get me to ovulate so I can book Coventry. 

xxx


----------



## Carrie88

Fifibell - Sorry to hear you're a bit under the weather, hope you're feeling better now. I've not seen that on Netflix. What's it about? I need a good binge watching series xx
Yes those train times will be fine  xx

Bippy - yay you're back!! Glad you had a good time  I know what you mean about the family sadness, I felt like that at new year, it's still nice to be away though somewhere warm.
I think merional is a stimulating drug isn't it? 
Tamoxifen can be an ovulation induction in women but from what I gather it works on some receptors that helps drive the oestrogen to your lining xx


----------



## K jade

fifi ill have to look out for that, I always like a good series. much prefer them to films. 

carrie this is just great news on that lining! I bet its grown even more today but even if not you have a great measurement now

bippy im so glad you had better weather than us. ha that's exactly what I did! jeans every night and my summer clothes went untouched. nethertheless it was such a lovely relaxing break. I really miss it now im home.

yes merinol is a stimmer. whoever asked. I'm on it for my next go


not wanting to default on my habbit of remembering depressing anniversaries today is 2 years since my first ever BFN. who knew it was going to be one of many ha!
seriously ive been down as hell recently about everything.  anyone else lots the faith? im sure we all have at some point. 
Im not even sure that its my immune issues causing all my failures or something else undiscovered ie just not having what it takes for pregnancy.  Im starting to feel its something that happens to other people.  things might turn around for me but I just cant see it right now. 

on a more positive note FGA said they were happy for do the script for intralipids. what was I worrying for!?  
and crgw will only charge £150. result! and its a 15 minutes drive from my house.


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## Carrie88

I know. If it's not grown today, I'll still be happy.
I am a bit worried about my thyroid though :/

Awww kjade I always remember my bfn-niversary. Especially the first one. I feel the same especially because my immunes aren't really much. 
Don't forget though you've tried humira this time so you're trying something different and something different always gives me my faith back a little bit.

That's great about fga and the intralipids  that's gonna save you money and time! Xx


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## K jade

carrie will you have thyroid re-tested today ?
hows the lining coming on? hopefully its doing great things....


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## Carrie88

I have got it retested, results tomorrow!! 

My lining is a whopping 11.4mm!! 
Not triple striped though so back again on Friday xx


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## K jade

Woop woop!!!!!  
I want sone of this magic tamoxifen !  x


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## Carrie88

It bloody is magic!! 
Never been above 7.5mm and then boom....11.4mm!! Xx


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## K jade

I've just had  a private message on social media from my brothers g/f .it's to me and my sister
"Hi ladies I just wanted to check you heard our news? Followed by a lovely heart symbol

No prizes for guessing what this is about then.  
  


Yep just had it confirmed 


its THAT

gutted girls . I actually find it HARDER when its people who really wanted babies  who get them as opposed to the 'Jeremy kyles' of the world who just bang them out willy nilly. she made no secret of the fact she desperately wanted a baby, and now she gets one just like that. in a way that's worse  
I haven't replied to the message she can wait till i'm in a better frame of mind
and even then itll be a brief "congrats , that's great. "
xx


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## Carrie88

Oh kjade  
That must be so hard to read and process. Are you close to them? Do you have to see them a lot? 
Sending you big hugs, that's going to take some time to process and deal with, but make sure you protect yourself. 

Sooooo bad news with me about the thyroid, it's dropped even more...0.02. I have to come off thyroxine completely. 
Nurse said I can still transfer.
I'm unsure.


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## bippy11

Carrie that's fab news with your lining - you responded so well! yey so glad that worked for you  Im going to ask my dr about tamoxifen vs merional - maybe I should try tamoxifen instead next time. Hopefully you will get triple lining soon. 
Im sorry about your thyroid, I don't know much about that. If your Dr says it's fine, then hopefully it will be. Yikes it's quite exciting - your transfer could hopefully be really soon then! 

KJade Im sorry to hear you're finding it difficult with these news, I completely understand. Like Carrie asked, do you see them much? It would be easier if you can hide away from it a bit, but with family I guess that is not always possible. I think for now, a brief message is fine. One day it WILL be your turn hun   xxx

I got a bit of bleeding today, after 9 weeks it's not much of a period, just a little bit of withdrawal bleeding from the progesterone I took last week, but it's blood, so Im going to start Chlomid tomorrow! Stupid body!


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## K jade

Thanks girls no, to be honest I don't.  They only live in Bristol but our paths don't seem to cross as both got busy lives  I guess.
So that eases the blow. I can quite easily get away with not seeing her until baby is born .
No doubt an invitation from some random to a baby shower will come through in the near future. Can't wait to turn that down with the 'watching paint dry excuse! ' 

Carrie I might be completely wrong but I thought the baddie for implantation was thyroid being sluggish.  As the baby doesn't have 1 till week 12 therefore it relys on  mum's.  Therefore I don't see how a thyroid which is motoring along, albeit rather  too enthusiaacally could affect things too much if at all but that's just my thinking and I could be completely wrong on this .  do u have thyroid anti bodies?


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## Carrie88

I would probably do that, I couldn't face her. 
I definetly wouldn't be going to the baby shower. 
Have you had a word with your other sister about it all? 

I'm honestly but not sure. 
Google is all about the hypo thyroid which is what i was and there's not much about hyper thyroid and it affecting implantation...


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## K jade

Yeh to be honest hun this has completely sideswept me. I didn't sleep last night at all. I just felt sick about it all and meanwhile my hope of getting my own baby wanes more and more.  It just never  happens for me  but happens in 5 minutes for others. 
I haven't to be honest . I guess I'll just leave it now.  
Yeh I also looked for u and there's nothing on hyper.  Actually I'm yet to find any  decent online thyroid articles full stop. I'm not sure professionals know much more than ' must be below 2'. They repeat that parrot fashion but I think little is known beyond it. 
My thoughts are hyper would only be a problem for implantation IF it was accompanied by anti bodies. Without them I don't know whether it can affect things xx


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## Carrie88

I'm not surprised it has, I imagine friends are easier to deal with because you can ignore them and meet up without their kids - you can't really do that with family.
I'm sure it will get easier in time , like everything always does in life but it's not going to make you any less upset right now. Big hugs!!! 

Aww thanks bud, yeah there's not much on there.
I don't have thyroid antibodies. 
I've messaged someone on my instagram whose thyroid is 0.01 and her clinic let her transfer....her beta is friday xx


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## K jade

Yeh exactly. family eh!  
OK my reply which ive now sent (24 hrs later) says "Hi , ah that's great news so pleased for you xx"
There. I kept my bitterness under wraps. You don't half get accustomed to talking through gritted teeth. 
actually come to think of it I spoke to my Dad a few weeks ago and he was super nice on the phone. Darling this and darling that. 
I thought that's weird. 
clearly he feels rather sorry for his barren daughter. 
hopefully this may mean that my loan I took out from them for immunes may be written off! oh well every cloud and all that.

I would have _thought_ that the absence of thyroid anti bodies means that a low TSH is unlikely to pose much of an issue for implantation. 
but I have no medical background and im just speaking from the logic of my own head (ha! that's questionable at times )
given that DrG has Ok'd it and there really isn't anything out there stating that a low TSH can specifically affect implantation I d be tempted to go for transfer. Especially as you have achieved that beautiful lining
Fingers crossed for your friend too for this Friday!

oh good news. FGA posted out my intralipid script yesterday . it arrived 1st class. x


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## Carrie88

K jade said:


> Yeh exactly. family eh!
> OK my reply which ive now sent (24 hrs later) says "Hi , ah that's great news so pleased for you xx"
> There. I kept my bitterness under wraps. You don't half get accustomed to talking through gritted teeth.
> actually come to think of it I spoke to my Dad a few weeks ago and he was super nice on the phone. Darling this and darling that.
> I thought that's weird.
> clearly he feels rather sorry for his barren daughter.
> hopefully this may mean that my loan I took out from them for immunes may be written off! oh well every cloud and all that.
> 
> I would have _thought_ that the absence of thyroid anti bodies means that a low TSH is unlikely to pose much of an issue for implantation.
> but I have no medical background and im just speaking from the logic of my own head (ha! that's questionable at times )
> given that DrG has Ok'd it and there really isn't anything out there stating that a low TSH can specifically affect implantation I d be tempted to go for transfer. Especially as you have achieved that beautiful lining
> Fingers crossed for your friend too for this Friday!
> 
> oh good news. FGA posted out my intralipid script yesterday . it arrived 1st class. x


Has she replied? Ohymgod do you think your parents knew before she told you and your sister? I hate pity words!!

Haha no you are logically and make sense. He's not okd it yet, it was Sharon who said it should be ok. My t4is also way high. I suppose I'll find out tomorrow when I see him. That's great your prescription got there so fast xx


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## K jade

No nothing lol. No one's spoken to me
Oh Yeh everyone knew as the message asked if we 'knew her news' so inplied that people, as in my parents, knew. 
What can I say. 
You find yourself embroiled in a silent game of winners and losers on this journey and frequently losing spectacularly every time another friend or family member 'bites the dust' . meanwhile they glide effortlessly through the finish line while your passed out on life support on the grassy verge!

Yeh I've a feeling the only person who can tell u straight is gorgy. Other Dr's may reel off the thyroid affecting conception thing which we all know,  but not specifically implantation . it's such a specific field that only a handful of professionals know anything about. 
Fingers crossed he'll give u the green light.  

Yeh crgw are gonna do the intralipids all I gotta hope for now is that they can accommodate me on the specific day I need them xx


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## fifibell

Ah kjade I feel for you.
I've skipped 2 nights out as one of my friends is pregnant. I got her news the same day one of my other friends have birth to boy. I sent the usual 'congratulations so happy for you' texts but that night I absolutely sobbed my heart out into my pillow. 
Its just never ending.


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## K jade

Girls shes just sent me 2 scan pics!
WTF!!!!
ive deleted the message
its ******** messenger
can she tell that I've deleted it?
will she be notified ?
fuming. and I was starting to feel better today


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## Carrie88

What the hell?? 
Why did she do that? 
Ohymgod id be fuming.
I wouldn't even reply. No she won't know you've deleted the picture. If you're in a group chat and leave the group, the group gets notified you've left but if you've deleted her message in the group she won't know or if it's just a convo between you and her and you delete the chat she won't know. I can't believe she's done that, she knows about the ivf right? Xx


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## K jade

She knows nothing hun .
What shall I do. Shall I just send her a message explaining everything asking if she'll leave me out updates ....
She's a nice girl tbh. ......


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## Carrie88

Oh she doesn't know? 
Yes I would tell her otherwise she won't think and she'll just get worse and worse xx


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## K jade

I messaged her.

Ive just met with my best mate.
We went for lunch and sat in café and she helped me write the message

she worded it for me. she said if I don't tell brother and gf they will NEVER guess in a million years what im going through. And she felt it was good for them to know.

I just came clean about _everything_ and asked her to not send me scan pictures. 
Its done. Cats out the bag.

I was really nice in the message and said its nothing personal and I am genuinely very happy for you
xx


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## bippy11

oh kjade, well done, that is a big step. Hope they respond with empathy and kindness xxx

carrie really hoping you've got the green light? xxx

fifi, sorry to hear about the pregnancy announcements you've been dealing with, it's so hard. 

Im feeling really low, like I don't know how to go on, but just taking it day by day   supposed to be going out tomorrow, but I just don't know if I can - no one wants a misery guts on a Friday night and I really can't bring myself to smile and joke and laugh and be fun.. x


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## K jade

Bippy    
No answers for u hun. It's grief.  Probs from the mc but also the many years of heartache you've had to endure. It's always there like a black cloud  but sometimes it decides to fall down on you randomly and completely smother you. Other days are better and it lifts somewhat and you can see positivity and hope. But the dull ache is  always there. 
Totally with u. We all are. Go out don't go out, go for a bit then leave. Whatever YOU wanna do. Just put yourself 1st xx

I'm actually feeling a bit shaken up right now which I'm pretty annoyed about seeing as I'm menna be calm etc for my upcoming cycle. My hearts racing an I'm physically shaking. 
I won't sleep tonight . Again.  
She hasn't responded. But I said my peice and she can put it in her pipe and smoke it 

Carrie any news?


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## bippy11

Thank you kjade   I think you hit the nail on the head. And it's funny you use this analogy of a dark cloud because that is how it feels, a very dark heavy cloud on top of me. That is how I have tried to explain to DH how I feel sometimes. Sometimes, like now, it's like it physically weighs me down. 

It's so hard - how are you supposed to recover, when you can't move forward and constantly have to go back to the thing that causes so much pain. It's like a scab constantly being picked and it becomes an open wound that can't heal. 

I understand why you are feeling shaken - it's a big thing to break the silence after so many years and even if you are trying not to, you will be worrying about their response. Really hope you can sleep tonight, do a bit of calming slow breathing in and out before bed. And have a good book nearby just in case you end up lying there worrying xxx


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## Carrie88

AH kjade good for you!! Has she replied? I'm not surprised you feel shaken, you never know how people are gonna take messages like that xx

Bippy - so sorry to hear you're feeling super sad  have you got anything to look forward too? I hope you managed to get out tonight. I never want to go out when I'm feeling sad but it does me good when I do xx

I do have the green light for transfer, next Tuesday at 3.30pm.
Lining is thick but not triple striped xx


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## K jade

Great news carrie! All systems go for u. How many are u transferring?  

Bippy hope your feeling OKish  and managed to get out for a bit if that's what u wanted to do. If not hopefully your having a cozy evening in with dh.

Well she replied and to be fair I think she was slightly mortified that she'd sent me those  pics and said she  would never have done that had she known.  . 
She then asked if my family or brother knew. Well no, it's not a secret but never comes  up in teatime conversation.  My mum knows parts because I've had to borrow  money . I can't be sure how much she grasps of it 
She said she'd talk to my brother so he knew and didn't say anything insensitive around  me. I then had the embarrassing job of pointing out that there's a very good chance my brother doesn't actually know what ivf and infertility IS,  whilst he's high functioning and has a degree and holds a good job down , he's very very naiieve.  beyond the realms of what should be normal at his age.
Anyway she can tackle that one as he's her problem! 

My intralipids are  booked in for 23rd March.  Right after my 1st stims scan. That's gonna be a busy day.


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## Angedelight

Hi ladies

Greetings from sunny Sri Lanka! Having the nicest time and exactly what we needed. It didn't start so well, delayed by 3.5 hours in U.K. Then missed the connection (next time I'll pay the extra to do a direct flight!) then had to take another 2 flights adding 10 hours extra travel time then the bloody luggage didn't turn up!. Other people's did in the same situation. Cue a meltdown in the airport and the 'why us/ nothing ever goes right for us' unhelpful thinking. It arrived the next day thank goodness. Since then its been perfect. And I used the cheapy ov sticks and got the strongest 2 lines I've ever seen! Hopefully one day they will be on the other sort of test!. So I'm booked into Coventry for next Friday. I'm slightly worried that we DTD twice over that period (was convinced the sticks wouldn't work) before all the instructions came through. But if it's not happened in all these years why would it now??. That would be just my luck!!. What notes/info do they want at the consultation?. 

KJade- I'm so sorry to hear about that announcement. I think we all know exactly how they make us feel. It's awful how it makes us feel then I feel like a terrible person for feeling that way so it's just one big battering all round!. Definitely think messaging her was the best idea and sounds like she understands. Good news you got the intralipids sorted. When I had mine done there it was a huge bag, bigger than what I had at Serum- not sure how much difference it all makes. Are you good for EC round Easter?. Did you start looking for new jobs?.

Carrie- whoop whoop for tamoxifen! You ought to start taking commission  when Dr G starts prescribing it all the time!. Good luck for transfer!!! Exciting. Will you have tested before we meet up?. And how does this affect your 30th? Will you be in 2ww?. Nightmare with all the thyroid stuff. Glad you can still transfer. How did your friend get on?.

Bippy- it's all such a rollercoaster. I think we all totally get how you feel. My counsellor said to me that with all you're this you're suspended in limbo as you never recover from it while you still keep doing treatments. And going back into treatment after it's failed or after you've had a miscarriage is traumatic. It's all so hard. Just be kind to yourself and don't put any pressure on yourself. I've become a master at cancelling things and just doing what I want to do. I get that feeling of not wanting to go on. I've had some dark times in amongst it all and it's awful. But we do get through it. It's just so so hard. Sending love.

Fifibell sorry you've had announcements to deal with as well. I've definitely subbed into my pilllw too. We had 2 in one afternoon once, our nephew and his GF- together 5 minutes, then niece and her husband- 3rd in 5 years!!. It's painful.

Hi everyone else, hope you're doing ok, I can only scroll back so far.

Shall we start a ******** group nearer the time for the meet up just incase anyone's delayed etc?. We can put our mug shots on it for easy identification!!!.

X


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## bippy11

Thank you ladies xxx I really appreciate your support and having you here, you truly understand xxx  

I didn't go last night, I just couldn't make myself. I told one of my friends I was meant to be meeting that I am not doing too well and will explain to him soon - so I guess I will have to do that! But I think it will be good to tell him what's going on anyway, he used to be such a good friend and we've drifted, partly because I have become a very unsociable creature! I did go and meet another friend for lunch today and it was really lovely to get out and see him. He knows what's going on and is very kind.

I had a big cry last night with DH, sometimes it's good to get it out! I will just take it one day at a time for now and hopefully things will improve. 

Mrs C so happy you are in Sri Lanka and loving it! Although wow what a journey to get there, sounds exhausting!!! I would love to go there one day. You will have a great tan for when we all meet   I hope I will be going to Coventry soon too - just need these chlomids to make me ovulate and then Ill book too. Enjoy the sunshine!!!  

kjade Im so glad your SIL was kind about it and hopefully your brother will be too once he's been told about it. Hopefully this can mean a bit of support from your family now the cats out of the bag, but at the very least, people will be sensitive about the pregnancy and not wave it in your face. Do you feel better and less shaken now she has responded? It's a strange reaction but I totally get it. I always get really nervous if Im going to tell someone. I guess because its such a personal and big thing and I have had people (ie my sister) who have not reacted kindly and that has really hurt and made me wary about who to trust with it. 

Carrie that's so exciting you can go ahead with transfer! Although its such a nervous time, how are you feeling? x


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## K jade

Oh no Bippy what happened with your sister? What did she say when u told her? That  must have badly knocked your confidence and it would definitely make me wary of confiding in people . I do feel better and sleep returned to normal last night . Putting it all right to the back of my mind and focusing back on me. The important one in all this  

MrsC glad u arrived safe even if u did have a bit of a 'scenic route' . I hope you get to see an elephant or 2?
Good news on coventry.  You'll get to have a chat with professor brosens before hand too and he's lovely. 
Well I haven't spoken to my clinic as I didn't want to 'point out' that EC may fall on good Friday,  have them realise 'oh so it  does' then pull the plug on me. I'm going to do as they say and start DR next Friday . Hopefully when I turn up at scan it will be too late for them to do anything about dates and they'll have no choice but to accommodate me.
Ha! Jobs no. 
Did a u -turn on the whole thing. I'm full of big ideas that amount to nothing.  I just thought who am I kidding I can't work in such a stressful field and do all this too. So I'm staying put. 
That's a good idea about social media group.  

Fifibell sorry you've had your fill of pregnancy announcement news too.  It's one of the hardest things about this whole business 

Xx


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## bippy11

kjade, my sister has just never been particularly kind or empathetic about the whole thing and has said some not very nice things and she doesn't want to talk about it basically. I have really struggled with it, but I am so grateful that I do have people in my life who I can talk to and who have been very kind and supportive, so I am trying my best to focus on that instead. 

Im so glad you feel better hun and that you are looking after yourself. Keep on at your clinic re the dates so that they make sure EC falls when they can accommodate you. I did think a new job (and that type of role in particular) would sound a lot to take on at the moment with everything you are having to deal with from treatment. 

Ive been chasing my hospital all week to try and find out whether they have made a referral they promised me (3 weeks ago) to a different hospital recurrent miscarriage clinic so I can get further tests. It took them a week (of me calling them everyday) to finally find out that the referral has been written, but they couldn't tell me whether it had been posted.. continued pestering and finally they told me it has been faxed.. so I called the other hospital who double-checked and said they haven't received it. So called hospital 1 to ask them to fax again on Friday... Ill be calling hospital 2 tomorrow to see if they have now received it!!! Honestly! Makes me glad that we are having treatment privately. I think the NHS is breaking, at least judging from my experiences things don't seem to work very well there!


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## wibble-wobble

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=392217.0

^^^ link to your new thread is above ^^^

Closing this thread as its very long now. I'll post the link to the this thread in the new one


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