# I wish I knew what to do! Anyone want to tell me?!



## BlinkButton (Jul 15, 2011)

Hi all

I cant figure out which path to take next. As you can see from my signature, I've had an ectopic after TTC naturally, 2 x BFN with IVF, and 2 miscarriages with ICSI - last one at 10.5 weeks in Sept. Last year after the first MC, when Mr Lavery mentioned DE, I was ready to do it. My DH wasnt even prepared to consider at that point. Since then I have read up about it and can see pros and cons. I still would love to have a baby that is both me and my DH. I wonder if I would experience lots of difficult emotions with DE, jealousy, for example, that he is creating a child with another woman and I am just carrying it. Sounds silly, I guess. on the other hand I just want to have a baby and love it and nurture it HOwever, if I think of another OE ICSI ending in MC, because my eggs are too old, it breaks my heart and I'm terrified we could damage our relationship by putting even more stress on it. I'm just at a loss. I can see some very lucky over 40s who have finally got pregnant and are well on their way, and I think why cant that be me, and maybe I should be brave and try number 5 and see if my dream can come true. My head just spins round and round with all of this and I feel trapped and like there is no way out. Does anyone have any wise words or advice, or guidance for me, as I am completely stuck. I also still consider letting go of this completely as I cant stand how this is impacting on our lives. Should I do one more with OE and then go for DE or adoption or take the plunge now? I know its silly in a way to ask you to tell me but I'm intrigued to know what anyone else makes of this as I have no idea! thanks for listening to my rant!!
x


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## natty83 (Oct 1, 2013)

My personal opinion is that if the baby grows in you and you deliver him/her you feel have no jealousy as you will be 100% that baby's mother. Your husband is exhausted but I believe when you give birth nothing else will matter. I also feel though that you should go with your gut feeling. I know that I will do anything to have a baby because it is so important to me. If that is how you feel don't live with regret and go for it. If however, you are exhausted then you are allowed to let the dream of a natural birth go and adopt a beautiful baby who you will also love with all your heart. Hope this helps!


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## Michimoo (Oct 13, 2011)

Hi Hun,

I didn't want to read & run. As you can see from my signature I haven't had much joy either.

Have you been tested for immune issues?

Are you staying with the same clinic?

M
Xx


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## bombsh3ll (Apr 19, 2012)

Hi BlinkButton,

Its a very personal choice and only you can decide in your heart what is right, but as a DE mum I can say that this path brings happiness to so many & is a much easier process to go through than an OE cycle.

I'm 33 and had my first and only DE cycle last year in Spain, and have a 4mth old daughter who is my world. I don't have a problem with egg quantity or quality, I am infertile due to tubal adhesions from an appendix abscess- I chose to do DE as I had been very ill twice with OHSS and also have a strong family history of breast and ovarian cancer.

Looking at your signature it sadly doesn't look like OE has been very fruitful for you and it is a question of how much pain you can endure, physically and emotionally, and also without knowing your circumstances, the cost of treatment is also a big factor in many people's decision.

I wish you well with whatever you decide to do, and just wanted to reassure you that a DE baby is by no means second best in any way.

Hugs,

B xxx


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## Mel D (Jan 18, 2013)

Blinkbutton
Are you having tests for reasons behind MC? If you got that far on both pregnancies then maybe there are immune issues as Michimoo says? I really wouldn't give up on your OE if you can bear it until you have eliminated all possible causes and had all investigations possible. MC is higher in our age range in general but two in a row suggests some investigations may be in order. If you don't explore all the avenues you will regret it and may find it difficult to move on to DE, if you have exhausted all the possibilities then it would be easier to move on to this. I am having the same dilemma I guess. At least with DE you can give yourself a time break to put your relationship back on track and get some quality time since the clock is not ticking so loud so you can cross this bridge later I would have thought. Best of luck x


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## BlinkButton (Jul 15, 2011)

Thankyou Natty - my gut feeling is that you are right. I know I would fall in love with a baby conceived via DE, before it was born. Once youre in love, thats complete and not relative. I think I just need to accept its time to move on. As soon as DH said lets have another go, i felt really anxious as i dont want to repeat ICSI and fail again, I want to have a baby and create our family. I dont want to waste more time.

Michimoo - thanks, I did have immune tests and found a few low level issues hence clexane and prednisone, but still no joy. I'm not sure if i will stay with the same clinic, or move on. My clinic does DE via a clinic in the USA, I think so would need to explore if going that route. I'm sorry you've also been through so much, and I hope you find a way forward. I'm thinking about a clinic in Barcelona that a friend recommended so may change.

Bombsh311- thanks for replying and sharing that with me. It means a lot to hear from the mother of a child born via DE. I cant imagine being disatisfied with the baby but I think its got more to do with accepting where i am right now. It might be Im feeling a bit insecure about how my DH will feel about me or the baby, so I need to explore more in counselling and with DH. But the idea of moving forward with DE does feel better as all I want is a baby and a family with DH and to take back our lives. Its lovely to hear your story and his you feel about your baby. 

Mel - I am waiting for the results of the test on the fetus, I gues they will turn up sometime in the next few weeks. I need to find out the results and see if they tell me anything useful. I have a hunch that they will not make things any clearer but we will see. If the result doesnt give us any answers that might help me be clearer about moving on from OE. I do think that taking a bit of time to explore DE and not feeling the acute pressure of the ticking clock would instantly make me and DH feel better. I dont want to continue living with such a weight over us. 


Im glad I posted here, I dont spill my guts easily so its great to get some sensitive and measured advice thanks all. Xxx


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## BlinkButton (Jul 15, 2011)

Mel - sorry using an ipad and my typing is rubbish - pressed send before adding in my best wishes to you on your current cycle, you've been through an awful lot too. Good luck. Xx


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## dragonfly10 (Dec 5, 2010)

Hi Blinkbutton,

I can't really add much to what the other have said except to say when you're ready for DE you will know it. I had 3 cycles in all and one FET with my own eggs (all considered grade 1 embryos yada yada), my first cycle resulted in a MC. I had to face facts about the age of my eggs and although I believed (and still believe) that one day I could get there and find that golden egg, I just wasn't prepared to plough myself into yet more cycles trying to find it, I was out of hope and out of money  . I wanted to be a Mummy and I wanted my lovely DH to be a Daddy and DE gave us the best possible chance.

And now I'm the proud Mummy to the most wonderful baby boy (16 weeks). A wonderful woman donated an egg to help me make our baby, but he's biologically mine, we thank her every day and then move on being our little family. There is no doubt when you hold your baby, and your baby looks up at you, whose baby it is   I worried about all the issues that you do but now we have him, I wonder why I did. 

Whatever decision you make, I wish you all the luck in the world, this journey is such a hard one. I only lurk on the site now to give other ladies hope, as so many gave me that on this site before.

Dragonfly XX


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## crazyroychick (Aug 21, 2012)

As you can see we had no luck either from all our cycles, we considered donor sperm incase that was our problem as never enough embies to get to blast but in the end decided to pursue adoption as we felt we had been through enough and our relationship was starting to suffer! X

If you do go down the donor route I do not think biology matters at all it takes more than biology to be a mum.  Also you will be carrying the baby and feeling it grow inside you, if we had gone done the donor route I would have loved the child unconditionally as I will with the LO we adopt x

Best of luck whatever you decide, I hope your dreams come true xx


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## ElsieF (Nov 26, 2009)

Blinkbutton,
I am the mother of a 16 month old wonderful, delightful, fascinating loving, very beautiful, endlessly curious little boy. He also just happens to be biologically from a DE.

I totally understand your fears and had all of them myself, but I can honestly say that if I were to go back and do this all again, I would have moved to DE much earlier and spared myself and dh a lot of heartache.

My darling little DS is the light of not just our lives, but of his grandparents, his aunt and uncles and even great aunts and uncles. He has changed all of our lives so much for the better, I couldn't even have envisaged this before. My parents and my sister, who love him to bits, know he is from DE , and it really doesn't make any difference at all. In fact most 'public' opinion is that he looks like my mum, and my mum herself often forgets the DE part, and says things about him being like me when I was a baby. 

For what its worth, I discovered he has my ears. His ear lobes are a little bit thicker than normal. It was dh who noticed that they were like mine. He then googled it and it turns out that this can be caused by an over production of oestrogen in the womb around about 20 weeks gestation. So there you go - not exactly my best feature!! but he inherited from me after all.  

The biggest relief there is when you move to DE is that you no longer become 'infertile'. You become someone who needs a bit of technical help to get pregnant. This means that you can plan for multiple children, just like 'normal' people.   

As you can see from my sig. we are planning no 2 from the same batch of very good embryos that made our darling DS.


Good luck and I wish you all the best!  

Elsie


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## Duck007 (Feb 7, 2012)

Blinkbutton, you are currently facing the same dilemma that I faced earlier this year. I don't think I had fully accepted that my own eggs weren't good enough. I knew that with donor eggs your chance of success depends on the age of the egg donor and not your own age so I used this as justification to buy a block of 3 natural IVF cycles.

I was very fortunate that my first natural IVF cycle worked. However, whilst agonising over the decision of what to do next I chanced upon a post on a website that made me abandon some of my fears over the use of donor eggs. This is the page on the website that made me think if my natural cycles don't work this WILL be my next step.

http://www.dcnetwork.org/letter-rachel

(I must admit the letter had me in tears) . The part that touched me the most was about the positive things that would come from the egg donor. I had always focused on the negatives until then.

It is a really tough decision to make but in my opinion you really need to make sure you have grieved for your own eggs before you embark on the DE route.

Good luck with whatever you decide 
xxx


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## BlinkButton (Jul 15, 2011)

Thank you all for your stories and insights. Its so true that I could keep gambling to find the golden egg when that isnt really what matters. I dont want to spend more time with heartbreak and stress, though I know this is also no guaranteed route. Dh and I spoke about DE seriously for the first time this weekend and I feel a huge sense of relief and he is open to the idea. I wish I'd spoken up about it before, but now I feel this is the right path for us. 

Thanks Duck for the link - it is moving stuff!

Elisie - really interesting to hear your whole family are delighted and no issues there. Also very funny about your ear lobes - god help the child that gets mine, virtually spaniel lobes.

I agree with you CrazyRoyChick about more than biology to be a mum.

Dragonfly - its so moving that someone gave you that gift and now your life is complete. 

I'm so glad that this site is here and you are all so responsive and willing to share - it makes a huge difference. 

xxx


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## natty83 (Oct 1, 2013)

Keep us updated for your future BFP!!! Exciting times ahead!


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## Sushi Lover (Oct 16, 2012)

*BlinkButton*... wow, this made an insightful read! I'm in the same boat, so I'm really glad you posted this chat and got loads of wonderful responses.

See you at the Fertility Show to discuss in more detail 

Thanks to all the lovely ladies that answered BB... who have faced this dilemma and come out smiling on the other side. I don't feel nearly as afraid about moving onto DE as I did before.

xxx


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## dragonfly10 (Dec 5, 2010)

Good luck with your forthcoming cycles ladies, and as Natty says keep us updated! 

xx


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## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

given that i am 43, when i started tx (at 41) using DE was talked about. i was dead against it unless it was a family member donating. 
however when i was talking about how i believed i would only be 'guardian' to a DE baby and not mum, someone said 'well who would be then?', and pointed out that from the baby's perspective i would have been entirely 'mum'. i hadn't even considered looking at it from the baby's point of view. 

i think some of the struggle with whether to use de or not can be looked at this way... i think people have to grieve for/move on from the OE thing first, separately. i look at using DE as 'adoption'... but then instead of adopting at 4, or 3, or 8 months... you're adopting right at a cellular level. The baby will definitely be 'part of you' as it grows, and when it comes out (and even before) you'll be 100% mum. 

i was really lucky to manage 2 BFPs from oe, although i m/ced the first one... and i still have a long way to go with the second one. Strangely, because DH's mum was adopted we know little about that part of the family and this baby could inherit loads of 'unknowns' just as a DE baby might. So in the end just have to wait and see what life deals me. i'm high risk for downs age-wise and we have had no testing yet... 

if you're not ready to move on, you either need another oe try or some means of letting go or grieving for the idea, but i think moving on would (once you were ready) be an exciting time full of possibilities. good luck.


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## Louisej29 (Nov 19, 2012)

So lovely to hear so many positive stories from those who have gone through
DE. It really helps those of us who are in the position where OE has been ending in bfn or in mc
Like blinkbutton we are also looking at Ivf 5 after 2 miscarriages and 2 bfn and we are 
Exhausted mentally physically and financially- down but not quite ready to quit

We have been doing a lot if research into de and I'm feeling more comfortable with the idea. One more go with Oe first.  !!

Blinkbutton and Kirsty -  it will hopefully be fifth time lucky for us all ! Looking forward to meeting you both
On Saturday ! 

Xx


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## BlinkButton (Jul 15, 2011)

thanks Natty and Dragonfly  

Kirsty, Louise - looking forward to meeting you both tomorrow - its going to be information overload, so we'll need to grab a wheat grass spritzer (who's going to dare drink a latte there?) and have a natter.

I need to learn to research things better, as I'm rather impulsive when I get an idea. I looked at Shady Grove, which is located in Virginia near to one of DH work colleagues (their neighbour works there) but the price of a DE cycle there is frightening. I'm back to looking at IM Barcelona, and reading the reviews all sounds good, but I did read one sad account among many others, talking about paying 10kEuro and having nothing to show as the donor didnt even produce one viable embryo.   The other accounts were overwhelmingly positive but that scenario is particularly sad. I think I need to read and think and talk more about this for many reasons, this one besides.

Goldbunny - I've been watching your progress - you must feel a bit unreal and also still a llttle anxious - you do give me pause for thought on the OE front, given I have also had 2 BFPs but in my case both MCs - maybe my next go would be the one, but thats back to the big gamble. All of this is a gamble. I hope things progress all the way without a hitch for you, youre one determined, brave and straight talking bunny.  

I'm terribly restless at this point while working out what to do, and cant concentrate at work for long - no one seems to notice and getting things done but I want to go home at lunch time. 

I'm going to keep reading all the other OE and DE threads as if the answer is going to emerge. 

thanks again for all the support - xx


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## ElsieF (Nov 26, 2009)

Hi Blinkbutton,

I just want to add that although DE (or maybe I should say 'de'   )feels like a huge decision - as your baby grown into a little person with their own personality, you can see their own likes and dislikes, their playfulness and sense of humour, the whole dna thing just disappears into the background. You, and those around you, really don't think about eggs and sperm and stuff (remember how it was before ivf?!?), they are just focused on your little darling and the clever/funny super cute things they do. Our children are individuals in themselves.


Its interesting what Goldbunny said about the babies point of view. Believe me, when your baby wants something (whether that be food a toy or the TV remote), you will know exactly who their mummy is! lol!And when you are trying to leave him/her at nursery because you have just Got to get to that meeting on time, and s/he is clinging to your legs - again you will know!   


I am very grateful to our donor - more than words can say, but what she did for us is in the past. Maybe it is easier for those of us who have anonymous donors.. it means that there isn't going to be anyone coming into our lives in 18 years+ or so.. so we can just stop thinking of it and are free to concentrate on our little people for who they are in themselves. .I am not sure how much of a difference that makes. While going through the ivf, I must have thought about the donor maybe 10 times a day, during pregnancy maybe every couple of days, and now I honestly never think about it. DS, and who he is, just takes up so much of my thought space there just isn't room!


For what its worth on clinics, We used IVI Valencia, which uses eggs from its frozen egg bank. This means the donor goes through the cycle first (maybe even years ago) so the number of eggs per donor is known in advance. I think they have a minimum number, but I am not sure what it is. When you are matched with a donor you get all the eggs from that donor. Their stats and research papers have said that they are getting similar to slightly better pregnancy rates using frozen eggs compared to fresh ones. 
take care and good luck!!


Elsie


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## BlinkButton (Jul 15, 2011)

Thanks Elsie - that's really reassuring that at IVI you get  guaranteed number of embryos, as I would be devastated to pay for a DE cycle and then have no embryos. Knowing they are there in advance and you are certain of having a transfer makes a huge difference. I will look into that. The only doubt for me right now is whether I need to have immune treatment first, so I might go and see Dr Gorgy to discuss my immune results - and then figure out whether to do another OE cycle or go straight to DE. But helpful to have advice on Spanish clinics as its a whole new ball game to begin! Good luck for your next cycle. Do you mind me asking how much treatment cost with IVI?
thanks xx


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## ElsieF (Nov 26, 2009)

It was about 10K for treatment, flights, accommodation etc. 
We had 12 eggs, 11 fertilized, we used 2 x day 3's to get ds, and now we have grown the rest to blast. We used 1 x blast for the bfn last month    and have 4 left.
We went through GCRM. They took on all the paperwork / comms with IVI / blood tests / monitoring here in UK etc. IVI gives 20% discount for GCRM clients, and then you end up paying the 20% to GCRM.   I know Mr Trew has contacts at IVI (although I think it might be in Madrid) so they might do something similar?
For FET it cost us about 3K, (1800 euro for tx, the rest for flights and accommodation and the GCRM monitoring here in the UK)
You don't receive any info on the donor until after a bfp. Our donor was 20 when she donated and we were told her blood group. that's all. (I was desperate for more info when we first thought about de, and did consider Shady Grove because of that, but in the end I was glad I only knew the minimum (i am not sure why, but maybe because it feels like the donor has less involvement in our lives??))
Good luck!
Elsie


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## BlinkButton (Jul 15, 2011)

Thanks Elsie for more info on IVI. I do like the sound of them and will ask Mr Lavery about them when I go for my review appointment in a couple of weeks. I have emailed IVI too, so will talk to them on the phone. I posted over on the immunes thread too asking what they would suggest next given that maybe its that thats causing me to MC. But i keep coming back to the point that the most important thing is to have a family and I think I'm done with trying to guess what is wrong with my body and fix it. I think I'm just terrified I'll choose this route and then that wont work either! The costs and arrangements for IVI seem fine and I keep reading good things. I guess I dont have to rush so fast. I can see why you are OK about a completely anonymous donor. I went for lunch today with a friend who knows someone who did DE in UK and knows a lot about her, but it would feel like they are a bit of a ghost in your family life. No right or wrong way but different. thanks again for info, will let you know how I get on eventually! x


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