# Sunday Times article on Natural IVF



## Puglet (Jul 6, 2005)

Hi Ladies

I was wondering if anyone has read an article on Natural IVF in Style Magazine in today's Sunday Times?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2104-2434250.html

With 3 failed IVFs and possible PGS planned for next cycle, I feel this IVF method would have been unsuitable for me, but I would love to hear other people's view on this. Personally, I'm feeling rather anxious and alarmed having read this article together with what Dr Nargund had said on Women's hour on the radio recently. I've no idea why...

Puglet x

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## Happy Mummy (Sep 22, 2006)

Hi, 
Yes I had read it and although quite a worrying thought, not surprising. I have never been offered natural IVF and wish I had.
I asked a senior consultant at HH and he said that IVF even if many cycles can't give cancer, but what it can do is that if you are going to develop cancer in your later years, it can boost the mechanism and it can appear earlier!!!!!
I asked a professeur in a different well know hospital and when asked about the danger, she said , not after just one! still we are offered IVF after IVF with just 3 months in between. We of course say fine ( me included) as we want a baby so much and we think next time is the one. I would be happy to try natural IVF once, but this means changing hospital. So I think I will try one more conventional IVF and then might move to a natural IVF unit , and the saving of the money would then maybe be used to see if problems with NK cells? 
It is difficult to know what is best as this is like a market and an expensive one, and I believe it should be ruled in a more strict way by the government in a way that everybody agrees, and not possible to make more money in some places compared to others (with  complicated names tests that we don't really understand as most of us are not doctors, and where  every idea sounds good especially if the lab has good results). 
And the tests available privately to give more chances of pregnancy should all be available on NHS.
Future Mummy


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## LEECOWDEN (May 24, 2005)

I read it too -  in fact I am mentioned in it. Someone contacted me via this website to interview me, as I was treated by Geeta Nargund.

x


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## madison (May 6, 2005)

I might have done just as well on this anyway as I only produced 2 follies last time & the other times i didnt do too much better.

Would have been nice to have had the option as its so much cheaper & we pay every time,

KATY


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## ♥Tamsin♥ (Jun 29, 2004)

Thanks for highlighting this Puglet! Most interesting!

I wonder though, whether the same stringent rules would apply to natural cycles, in regards to BMI?  Which frustratingly is the only thing standing between me and Medicated IVF Tx!

Tamsin
xx


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## g.s (Sep 27, 2005)

Read it & it made me think about my clinic, Manchester Fertility Services. 
I am currently on my 2ww - fet within a natural cycle. 
As from 1st December, my clinic will not offer fet into a natural cycle - they want to become a 5 day clinic and would prefer to regulate patients using drugs. (A cost cutting exercise in my humble opinion).
I am so disappointed with my clinic as I think I have paid a huge amount for tx - surely I should be given a choice about having a natural cycle.
I would much prefer the inconvenience of visiting the clinic for daily bloodtests than daily injections of drugs, of which, I have no idea what long term effects they have on my body.

I am mad


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## Imogen (Jul 18, 2003)

Hi all,

Yes, read this too - v interesting.
I wouldn't trust a Consultant who claims to know the long term effect (if any) of multiple IVF on a woman's body - they simply haven't been doing it long enough and there are no proper studies (that I am aware of).  Might cause cancer, might not, I don't think they know.
The idea of 'natural IVF' is a very interesting one.
I know that I have been kept down regging (and I suspect stimming too) by my clinic who - get this- only open Mon - Fri!  If your body needs tx at the weekend they just 'coast' you on more drugs. 

Did hear Prof Winston recently saying he thinks all IVF should be govt controlled (ie via NHS) to prevent private clinics claiming folks need test after test when they may not and that patients should pay a sliding scale towards the cost of their tx depending on their income.  Seems entirely sensible to me!

love to all,
Imogen.x.


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## Alley (Aug 13, 2006)

Maybe I don't understand Natural IVF, but I think I would rather pay £4500 for 2 embryos (£2250 each, plus possibility of bonus frosties) than £3500 (cost without drugs) for one embryo. 

Am I being dim?


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## Jinty (May 6, 2006)

Hi Alley, I guess it depends on your success rate. I'm considering this because on my 2 ICSIs we've only had 5 embryos of which 2 were put back, we never got any for freezing. The cost in my case including drugs etc. was more like £8k and it's 2 months of your life incl. d/regging etc.
I've had a look at the clinic in Wimbledon and it's £1500 for ICSI and you can do it every month. It's not a bad 'in between' option as it doesn't use many (if any) drugs. The issue of miscarriage being more common with drugged cycles is particularly interesting for me.
Jx


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## stephanie1 (Jun 14, 2006)

Hello girls,

DH had seen the atricle too and send it to me I susquently found this web page with a bit more info:

http://www.sart.org/Guide_MinimalStimulationIVFET.html

In m case I had as many folicules with clomid than with the ICSI (only ot 6 eggs and 2 fertilised normally). The uncomfortable bloating feeling created by drugs may be avoided and if I coul dtry the minimal stimulation IVF I would think about it. 
The clinic I will do my next ICSI in march does not do any down regulation it stops the ovulation to control the evolution of folies for EC. So I guess with all those different techniques it is worth considering one with less drugs. It would be interesting to ask that question to Zita West if she is interviewed.

Happy New Year 2007 to all

Steph
PS: Tamsin, your black and white cat looks so much like mine!!!!!! 

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## ♥Tamsin♥ (Jun 29, 2004)

Steph,

I know, I had to look twice!!!

Tamsin
x


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## Jinty (May 6, 2006)

Hi everyone, I thought you might be interested in my conversation with St. Georges clinic who do natural cycle in London. I called them about the middle of Dec. and the first thing they said was that they were very busy but she'd get someone to call me back about an appointment.
I was called back between Christmas and New Year. They asked if I was aware that natural cycle has lower success rates than stimulated cycles, I said I was. Then she asked what our problem was, I explained it was male factor and we'd need ICSI, then she said, well you should be aware that the success rate is even lower when it's ICSI, I said what is the success rate with ICSI then (knowing with IVF it's about 10%), she said she had no idea!  
Then she said this is something you should look at as a number of months rather than a one off treatment as it's unlikely to work with just one, 'do  you still want an appointment. We want to explain so that you don't waste your money'. At this stage I was getting a little wobbly. She put me through to someone else to get an appointment who offered me a consultation on the 23rd of Feb!
That was enough for me and I'm not going for it. When you add it all up, I would be unlikely to start treatment till at least March or April, and with v. low success rates and several months of trying I can see myself sitting here at the end of 2007 still without success which right now I don't think I can contemplate.
I don't want to put anyone off but it certainly seemed that they wanted to. And it worked with me.
Jxx


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## jannie (Dec 21, 2006)

Havent read it but i heard that IVF can have some effects to with cancer.  This is a concern to me as there is cancer in my family.  xxxxxxxxxxx


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

I wasn't told about the increased risk of cancer by the clinic, my friend who had treatment at another clinic on the NHS was and she was also given an pelvic ultrasound a year later  after she stopped TTC to check all was ok(she had failed IVF cycles, ectopic, m/c and then her partner could take no more and eventually left her).  

But it does make sense that we are putting ourselves at a slight more risk of cancer by 'interfering' with the body's natural cell cycle and getting the body to overproduce follicles etc but then many drugs we take in our lives interfere with nature.

L x


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

I was a patient at Create Helath before I started my NHS IVF treatment. I was seriously thinking about it as at the time I didn't want all the drugs. Taken as a course of treatments the success rates stack up to conventional IVF which is why they are right to offer it this way. They cost about the same as a medicated IUI and you can do them back to back. There is the bonus that of those 3-4 treatments you might get lucky on one of them before then. You can fit in 3-4 treatments in the time that one conventional IVF is undertaken and then if BFN you undergo recovery. 

In the end I was lulled into my free conventional IVF with the NHS and then I seemed to fall into that rourte as I got a bfp first time. However, it was short lived and then I had the same happen a second time on the next IVF. So, for someone like me that has good fertilisation rates maybe it would be a good method. The other thing is they also offer a light stimm option which aims to produce a small number of eggs, so it's not just the one egg they're playing with. 

The one thing that lets Create Health down IMO is the clinic is underfunded and under frequented. To me doing IVf that is so tied to following the woman's cycle they should be open 7 days per week and not using a satelite clinic for EC and ET. I liked Geeta, I just think she's not set up properly yet for the system and perhaps her admin staff should be better educated at giving info on the process. 

Lou


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## caro01 (Aug 16, 2006)

I've always been drawn to the idea of trying natural cycle IVF before moving on to standard approach. Does anyone know if the following statement from the article is true though:

"While a standard IVF cycle can cost up to £4,000 per cycle, a natural cycle costs less than £1,000"

I find it hard to believe that natural cycle IVF "only" costs 1k if they still have to do an Egg Collection.... Doesn't that in itself make the price similar to normal IVF?

Would love any info

Caro


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## londonlou (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi Caro, The fees for natural IVF at Create Health are advertised as £1070:
http://www.createhealth.org/fees.html

A medicated cycle of £4000 is probably 50% medication with average theatre costs of £2000 or under. So without medication they can charge less and they're collecting less eggs.

HTH

Lou
x

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