# PGS advice needed please



## redmond (Jun 29, 2006)

Hello all,
Anyone out there had experience of PGS?  I am having e/c on Monday and scan today showed 9 folicles but they think only 6 will be mature enough for e/c.  I know our clinic likes you to have at least 4 embies for PGS.  My dilemma is this is my last go at IVF as 44yrs in August and I had 2 m/c's following treatment last year.  I only decided on one more try because I thought PGS would cut down my chance of another m/c unsure what to do if we have less then 4 embies as dread the thought of another m/c.  Anyone had PGS on less then 4 embies.  Any advice appreciated x


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## Jo (Mar 22, 2002)

Hi
I have been looking around for you for some information on PGS.
I have come up with this, hope this helps  

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=88714.msg1224244#msg1224244

Good Luck  

Love Jo
x x x


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi Redmond,

I am sorry you are having a dilemma - it is very difficult when you feel under such pressure. From what I understand, research shows that PGS decreases chances of miscarriage but if you have fewer than 6 embryos it does not improve implantation or live birth rate (see link to Santiago Munnes web chat for more infor). Therefore if you do not have many embryos for PGS (i.e. fewer than 4 - or 6 which is usual minimum) it could be easier to replace 3 on day 3. There is still the chance that one or all are chromosomally abnormal, but less chance of discarding an embryo because of a false positive, or because it doesn't make it to transfer (but could still be perfectly ok). Taking 40 plus embryos to blast with so few is also risky.

I know after having miscarriages you want to avoid these, but these are choices that are so hard. At over 40 more embryos transferred increases live birth rate. By performing PGS on so few embryos, you may be running the risk of discarding a normal embryo when you have so few to work with.

What does your embryologist say about this? What is your clinic's experience and advice in cases such as yours? Are they very experienced in PGD/PGS as this is another important factor. I would be guided by them and wait and see. I don't think it is worth the PGS with so few embryo but this is entirely a personal opinion.

Were your other m/cs chromosomal? Did you investigate any other m/c causes?

Here is some more info. from Santiago Munne - a pioneer of PGD

http://www.resolve.org/site/PageServer?pagename=cop_ch_20050202

Wishing you the best of luck whatever your decision

Daisy
xxx

[red]This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites[/red]


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## redmond (Jun 29, 2006)

Hi Daisy,
thanks for your response and web link both have given me food for thought.  i have had tests for m/c and chromosone screening all came back normal.  The main reson we decided to have one last attempt with PGS/D was our consultant is quite confident that our problem is egg quality.  We thought we were good candidate as last IVF 10mths ago got 12 eggs and 12 grade 1 embryos sadly had m/c and then Fet which resulted in m/c also. I am at a London clinic which is experiencedin PGS so I will await there advice on Monday, fingers crossed we might make 6 embryos if very lucky.  I am so scared of another m/c I am tempted to go with PGS whatever but know this is any guarantee-feel very unsure what to do really.
Congratulations on the birth of your twins looks like you had a hard journey to get your dream, thanks gain for the advise x
Hi Joe thanks for your help the link was really helpful an thanks for bump on peer support x


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## sue93 (Jun 14, 2006)

hi Redmond, 

this is a really hard one. we only had 3 embryos and if I'm honest I would have put them back (for the same reasons that daisy said). However DP was really very keen to do the PGS anyway and the clinic were happy for us to go ahead and do so despite only having the 3. Like yourself I really felt i couldn't face another m/c if it was at all avoidable. As it turned out all 3 were chromosomally abnormal (one with Downs Syndrome). I am so very glad that we made the decision we did. However I am well aware that things could very easily have panned out differently, not least of all the fear of the embryos not surviving while you wait for the results (which would obviously be awful if it turned out that they were ok). 

I guess talk it thru with your clinic when you know how good the embryos are looking - ie do they think they have a good chance of making it thru to blasts? I think that is probably the big question in a way...

really good luck with it - with a bit of luck you'll have more than 4 and then it's all a bit less scary

fingers crossed love

Sue xx


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## redmond (Jun 29, 2006)

Hi Sue,
thanks for your reply our stories sound very similar, sadly!  I got 5 eggs from 9 folicles today so am pretty disappointed I have always had double figures before which is why we decided to go for a last go with PGS.  we had planned last go to be our last attempt but clinic messed up and at last minute told us we couldn't have PGS as no embrologist available! ^bigbad
You clearly faced the same dilemma as we have it's so hard to know where to go isn't it?  Will know more tomorrow when we hear how many embryos.  i am feeling pretty negative at the moment but fingers crossed we have done our best.  Thanks again for replying and hope your doing okay x


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## sue93 (Jun 14, 2006)

redmond - fingers crossed for good news with your fertilisation today, really hoping it works out for you
Sue x


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Redmond,

I just wanted to wish you luck for tomorrow and the rest of the 2ww. Try not to be too disheartened 5 eggs is still very good. 

      

Love and luck, CG xxx


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## redmond (Jun 29, 2006)

Hello all,
Sue and CJ thank you for your good wishes.  Finally heard from clinic late morning by which time I was so stressed gave the nurse the wrong date of birth!!!  Good news is we have 3 good embryos so far which I am pleased about.  However now face the same dilemma as you Sue, do we chance another m/c or go for pgs and run risk of damaging a good embryo.  Also sounds mercenary but also have to think about cost  as we have thrown all of our money at our treatments so far.  Such a difficult decision and not sure how to make my mind up.  DP supportive but is really leaving the final decision down to me.  So sick of having to make decisions and my fear is making the wrong one! Will speak to embryologist tommorrow and see if she can help. 
Thanks for support girls I really appreciate it.  Will try and get some sleep tonight as I am sending myself nuts with indecision


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi Redmond,

What a rollercoaster you are living right now!  I really, really feel for you and the stress you are under.  I think speaking to the embryologist is a good idea.

My opinion (FWIW) would be to transfer all 3, especially as it is your last go.  I believe the embryos are better off inside you rather than going through the PGD process and taking them to blast (which may eliminate a perfectly good one).  I know you so want to avoid another m/c, but the the only way to definitely avoid one is to transfer nothing.  By transferring all 3 you may just be increasing the odds of a live birth even though you are opening yourself up to another m/c.  I know this is easy to say, but sometimes nothing ventured nothing gained?

Forgive me for my easy opinion - so easy to say when you are not faced with the dilemma.  I know you will make the right decision for you.

I wish you all the very best - am rooting for you.

Daisy
x


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## sue93 (Jun 14, 2006)

Redmond - that's fantastic news about your embryos. Just wanted to wish you all the best with your decision - there is no right and wrong one here and you will know what feels right for you i am sure, with the help of the embryologists.

I know how hard it is - if i ever find myself in the same position again (and I promised myself i wouldn't, but have the odd moment of weakness  ), i would find it just as hard to make the decision. Be led by the embryologists and your heart.

So hard - keeping everything crossed for you

Sue xx


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## MrsC (Jun 29, 2006)

Just to add that I had PGS done on my last cycle, though I was lucky to start off with 16 eggs so I met the criteria (ARGC say you need at least 6) - sadly, even with PGS, I still had a m/c.  Unless you go for the very expensive options, the basic PGS they offer covers about 95% of main chromo issues, like Downs etc. Sadly our emby had Trisonomy 20, a pretty rare issue which would not have been detected.  I was gutted, because I was sure that having PGS would protect me from a m/c. It didn't, and whilst I would have it done again, assuming I get a similar number of eggs, if I had less than 5 I don't think I would bother.


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## sue93 (Jun 14, 2006)

oh MrsC just had to say i'm so so sorry to read your post - can't imagine what that must have been like...

hope you are doing as ok as is possible

Sue x


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## redmond (Jun 29, 2006)

Evening all,
Thankyou all for your support and advice I really appreciate it-I value the advice I get on here more than my clinic to be honest as there is such a wealth of experience.  Well found out today have 2 grade 1's-a 4 cell and a 5 cell and 1 grade 2 -4 cell so all looking good and am going to have them all transfered tomorrow!  Such a releif to have made my decision!  
Daisy thanks for all your advice and being so frank - you are so right the only sure way to not have m/c is not to have tried!  i will draw on my resourses and try and keep positive over the next 2 weeks.  I find it amazing how faced with IF we all manage to keep bouncing back- fertile women have no idea!  
Mrs C so sorry to hear your outcome - I wish you all the best in your next treatment x
Sue thank you for your replies-I soo know what you mean about trying again this is my second final, final attempt.  It's so hard to decide to stop and where theres a will theres a way!  I'm already hatching plots about my next options! Take care and good luck with whatever you choose as your way forward x
I will update you all in 2 weeks x


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Redmond,

Sending good luck and best wishes to you and DP.

Daisy
x


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## sue93 (Jun 14, 2006)

great that you've made a decision Redmond - must be a weight off your mind love.

really really good luck with it. Sue x


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Hi Redmond,

Just caught up on all your news! Well done on your 3 good embies. Wishing you loads of luck for your test in 2 weeks time. I really hope you won't need any more final trys and that this is the successful one for you. 

 and 

CG xxx


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## redmond (Jun 29, 2006)

Hello all,
Just wanted to update you A/F arrived last night so didn't make it to test date sadly  .  That is despite  a grade 1, 8 cell, grade 2, 9 cell and a morella transfered on day 3.  Clinic really positive and actually felt it had worked until thursday, had all sorts of symptoms!  I suppose that is just the nature of this process so many questions so few answers.  End of road for us but glad we made our decisions we know we tried our best.   Thank-you all for your words of support and advice, take care x


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## Cotswold Girl (Nov 16, 2006)

Redmond - I'm so sorry hun, my heart goes out to you and your DP.   The toughest part is there is no rhyme or reason to success or failure. You've tried your best and that's all you can do. Take care. 

Love, CG xxxx


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

So very sorry to read your news Redmond  I wish it could have been a different outcome for you. Big hugs to both you and DH

It's early days hunni and first you must take time to grieve but I wanted to let you know that I also had early bleeding on my first three fresh IVF's (bleeding day 11 past ec) despite having 600mg Progesterone daily.  On my last fresh attempt they gave me Puregon injections on Day 3, 5 and (I think) 9 of my 2ww and this kept AF a bay.  It didn't give me a BFP but I believe it gave my embies a chance to implant and I've heard it working for a number of girls who are early bleeders.  Maybe if you decide to have another attempt you could talk to the con about this.

Much love to you hunni
Allison xx


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi Redmond,

Very sorry to hear about your bfn.  I echo what Allison has said about progesterone support - bleeding before stopping prog. can mean you did not have adequate levels to allow implantation.

Allison - Do you mean pregnyl injections (not Puregon)?  As well as these, it is worth considering Gestone (injectible progesterone) as another very good form of progesterone support.  You should not bleed with these until stopping them.  Many women do not absorb the pessaries adequately unfortunately.

Daisy
x


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## allison kate (Aug 9, 2005)

Oh yes, sorry I did mean Pregnyl not Puregon..sorry a bit out of it at the mo    I took injections of 1500 instead of the usual 5,000 I have for the trigger jab.


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## sue93 (Jun 14, 2006)

Redmond, just saw your post, I am so so sorry love. Thinking of you. Sue xx


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