# What's going on with Sana-Med?



## SandraNL

Does anyone have a clue what is going on with the clinic of prof Feskov? I have been told that the clinic is (partially?) closed.


----------



## Allen

That's not true! We are currently in Kharkov, and the clinic works as usual.


----------



## SandraNL

Hi Allen,

I was wondering if you have seen Feskov at the clinic. LVF is currently working on an alternative clinic for one of their patients, because they have told this patient that Sana-Med is not able to help anymore. They haven't been able to explain why, except for the fact that there are problems within Sana-Med. I really would like to know if the information this patient has received about the clinic is true or not, because we are considering to go to Kharkov again for a sibling. I also have had some issues with Sana-Med before, but after a long time of distrusting them they have been doing their best for us. I therefore need to double check everything.

Thanks
Sandra


----------



## Allen

Dear Sandra,
I have not seen the Professor Feskov himself, but at least yesterday we had a conversation with his wife, Dr. Irina Feskova. And today I talked to our Dr. Elena. Didn't notice anything suspicious   
One week ago we visited LVF, and while spending the time there I heard a phone call, and they spoke definitely about Feskov's clinic.
So I'm sure the clinic is fully operational.


----------



## kiera19

Yes the clinic is open and doing treatments as normal.......... 

Sandra L maybe it would be  a good idea to ask them directly if you have any concerns.... As maybe there is a reason why that couple will not be going to Sana Med and LVF reccomended another clinic... Did you ask the couple this?

I think when posting we need to be factual and have first hand data.


----------



## SandraNL

With all due respect Kierra, but will they really give me an honest answer when I'm a potential client? I have experienced that as well Sana-Med as LVF deny everything when there are problems, so asking patients directly is in my opinion the best way to discover if anything is wrong. 

Don't get me wrong: I am absolutely delighted they were able to help us to fullfill our dream to become parents, but we have had a lot of issues with them before (e.g. not complying with the contract). 

I am happy to hear that other patients don't have any problems, as we definitely would like to have the same donor for a sibling.


----------



## kiera19

With respect to you Sandra......... i have read all your posts and if you had so much mis-trust why did you go back to them for a egg donor for yourself after you tried surrogacy?  And why have so much negativity when you now have a baby because of the clinic....... 

They have never lied to me and if i thought they would i would not use them......... Your contract problem was with LVF Centre and not Sana Med  they are two completely different  organisations .......

I admit that they are not great in the communication but all my emails do get answered.


Yes it is good to hear from other patients both positive and negative but i would only post my own personal experiences and not others i have emailed as i would not know if it was fact.

Congratulations on having your baby using donor eggs from the Sana Med clinic...... And good luck for the future attempt .


----------



## Richi

Hello

today in the evening LVF told me they dont work with SANA. They have a other clinic now and i can use this clinic. But in the morning they told me all o.k.!! I dont understand this. And i dont get any information about my program which should started yesterday. I have paid SANA 4 weeks ago. I will looking forward if they get my money back and I can change the clinic.

And my german translater has left LVF for 2 weeks too....

Will inform you.
Bye


----------



## SandraNL

Thanks Richi, as I already suspected: there is something going on. I hope everything will work out fine for you and you'll get your money back. It must be very stressful for you at the moment.

@Kiera: this is what I mean, this was already decided a week ago but they were unwilling to communicate about this. 

Sandra


----------



## kiera19

My cousin is in Kharkov at the moment starting treatment, and was at the Sana med clinic today and the La Vita Felice centre also . She telephone me and said that every thing was fine with clinic and centre.

Richi, who did you speak to for this information , was it the clinic or La vita felice?

I will ask her to ask for the full truth when she visits them again.  

I am not aware of another IVF clinic in Kharkov, does any one know of one and what is it called?


----------



## SandraNL

Kiera, they are cooperating with an IVF clinic in Belgorod. I suppose this is Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi, as Belgorod is in Russia. I can't find an IVF clinic here via Google, unless the clinic is in Odessa. In both cases the new IVF clinic is far away from Kharkov.

By the way: a week ago LVF said they were trying to cooperate with this clinic in Belgorod, so I'm not sure if this cooperation is final yet. Currently they are communicating that they are dissatisfied by prof Feskov's services, but as I already posted before, there is another story going on why Sana-Med is not helping new clients anymore. Can you ask your cousin if she has seen prof Feskov? During the several times we visited his clinic, we have always seen him in the office (although most of our visits took place in the old building, which was a lot smaller than the new building).

For me it would be a big difference if LVF switched the clinic because of problems with Feskov personally or if they are really dissatisfied with his services. In the first case they can't help it and they have nothing else to do than looking for a new cooperation.


----------



## kiera19

I will ask her for more information and let you know.....

Allen W who also posts on here in the east europe board had a baby boy with the help of a surrogate  there yesterday....

My tummy mummy is at Sana med for a scan on Monday also so will gain direct information then.


----------



## napy

Hi Everyone, 
After reading these posts my husband and I became very alarmed since we have frozen embryos being stored at Sana Med right now.  We posed the question to Oleg about whether or not they were still working with Sana Med or if Sana Med might be going out of business and his reply was "please be assured that the Pr. Feskov's clinic is not planning to discontinue their work. They have never had such plans."  

I am interested in hearing what other people have heard regarding Sana Med and La Vita Felice.

Napy


----------



## kiera19

Hi Everyone,

My surrogate had a scan today at Sana Med and i received my usual email from Dr Elena with an update and scan pictures.... so all is good.

I asked Natalia about them working with Sana Med. And she informed me that all is fine and that ofcourse my surrogate mother will attend Sana med.... I already have a contract..... But i do wonder if they will work with new customers .

best wishes


----------



## SandraNL

Richie, did LVF already tell you if your money is save at Sana Med and you may proceed at their clinic? 

It is all very confusing. As I understood today, they are referring new AND existing patients who have to start a new fresh cycle to Belgorod in Russia. The patient I know is single and after one failed attempt he wanted to start a new attempt (no frozen embryo's left). LVF told him that Sana Med is not allowed to start a new attempt and that he needs to go to Russia. In Russia they don't accept patients who are single, so he can't proceed anymore. Although the contract says that he is allowed to do two attempts with his surrogate mother, there is no clinic that wants to help him anymore.

I am also wondering how LVF is handling everything when egg donors and surrogates need to travel all the way to Russia while they live in (the neighbourhood of) Kharkov.


----------



## napy

I wanted to pass this on to anyone who might be considering La Vita Felice and Sana Med.  Oleg wrote to us today that they have changed their IVF partner for a new IVF clinic in Belgorod (which is only about 70 km away from Kharkov), due to their deep dissatisfaction with the level of services provided by Pr. Feskov's clinic and, in particular, the level of their communication with clients.  Evidently, this new change applies to new clients and ones that need to start a fresh cycle, not someone who has frozen embryos still at Sana Med (which is our situation).

Napy


----------



## SandraNL

Thanks for sharing this Napy.

I definitely think something else happened. I know that LVF has received a lot of complaints about Sana-Med in the past, but they kept telling those patients (including myself) that Sana-Med was a good clinic. Suddenly they have changed the clinic without warning their patients in advance. I still don't know if this change is good or bad. Although we have been very disappointed in their service levels, Feskov personally did his best for us in the end. 

Does anyone knows the name of the new clinic and their experience? Do they also offer new techniques like IMSI, PICSI, assisted hatching and PBMC?


----------



## Richi

Hello Sandra

LVF has advised to continue with SANA because I have paid the current cycle. If i wish I can ask to cancel and they said I should write my Doc and the Financial Officer. They can arrange to continuing by the new clinic.

Now I ask for further assistance with communication with SANA and LCF said _"As usual, we will be providing our support and will be helping you with your communication with Pr. Feskov Center. All current programs with the clinic will be completed. Please do not worry about this aspect and continue your program with the clinic."_ 
But I dont know if they do that because I only get the information from my Doc that the first synchronisation failed. No information from LVF about that. In this reason I ask in the other thread what is the better decision, try to cancel or continue?

The other question is what happens with SANA. If they continue their work perhaps they try to do a good job to keep the customer. Does the clinic close there is no reason to work hard.

I dont now. I think I continue with SANA but if it failed I do not more with LVF and in Ukraine.

Bye


----------



## SandraNL

Hi Richie,

It is indeed a difficult decision and I guess I can't give you any good advice as I don't know the other clinic in Belgorod. Sana-Med has quit a few years of experience with European people, although most of the doctors don't speak English at all. How will the new clinic communicate? I know that IVF itself is a very easy procedure and almost all clinics are able to perform well, but what about all the other important aspects? How do they select donors and surrogate mothers? We were very disappointed by the way Sana-Med has selected a donor for us, it was absolutely not aligning with European standards. Will this new clinic have other standards? What new techniques do they use? Do they have someone at the clinic who can explain the medication in English? (Sana-Med also made a mistake in my medication due to language problems)

I now know how to deal with Sana-Med, but with a new clinic you definitely find some new problems. What about the capacity of this clinic? Do they have enough experienced doctors to treat all those new patients? Will differences in law be a problem? As far as I know, surrogacy is not allowed in Russia. Will that cause problems in the end? Does LVF already have experience with this clinic, or is this a trial for them also? How do they know this clinic is performing better than Sana-Med? What are the costs of this new clinic?

Do you know the name of the clinic in Belgorod? I did a quick search on Google and couldn't find a website of an international IVF clinic. Off course a website doesn't make you a suitable clinic, but if they don't have an English website, how are they going to cope with foreigners? It seems to me they don't have a lot experience with foreigners, but I'm off course not sure about this. Will LVF charge more because of the travel costs of donors and surrogates?

Have you been doing earlier attempts at Sana-Med, or is this your first attempt? If you have been a client before it might be wise to continue with Sana-Med.


----------



## napy

Sandra,
  I think you are right, something else must have happened other than simply LVF being unhappy with the communications problems with Sana Med.  If anyone can shed any light on what might be going on, it would be extemely helpful to everyone who is a customer of LVF.


----------



## Allen

Hi Sandra,


SandraNL said:


> As far as I know, surrogacy is not allowed in Russia.


It's absolutely legal in Russia.


----------



## Richi

Hi Sandra

you can find the Link http://www.belokb.ru/hospital/perinatal/reproduction from the new clinic on the website from LVF http://mother-surrogate.com/part.html The site is only Russian.

Thats all right what you say and therefore I think its better to continue with SANA. I dont think they close, they have the new clinic a year now and they have over 10 year experience.

Do you have a advice for me how I handle SANA? I select egg donor myself with LVF. This is now my second attempt with SANA unfortunately without frozen embryos.

Bye


----------



## SandraNL

@Richie: during our second attempt our donor had more than 26 (!) follicles after the egg retrieval. In Europe a donor is only suitable when she has between 10-15 follicles (6-8 in Spanish clinics, but 10-15 is also good according to my Belgian and German doctors). If a donor has more eggs, it could affect the quality of the eggs. 

At day one we had a lot of fertilised eggs, at day two a lot of embryo's stopped growing and at day 3 we only had embryo's of bad quality. At day 5 there were only 2 embryo's of very bad quality. The clinic told us that this was due to the sperm of my husband. As we are very experienced with IVF attempts (we have had 10 fresh IVF attempts in the last 8 years) I know for sure that the sperm was not the cause. IVF experts also publish in reports that if an embryo has a poor quality at the first three days, this is due to the egg quality. After 3 days the sperm also affects the quality.

What we have been doing at our third attempt is include in the contract that our donor is not allowed to have more than 15 follicles. After the egg retrieval our donor had 17 follicles, but that was okay for us. We had 5 embryo's of top quality and one of them is our 11 weeks old daughter.

I also discovered that some egg donors are very popular and coincidence or not ... via Fertility Friends I found out that the surrogates of a few couples had a miscarriage. We all used the same donors. 

Hopefully this information helps you and just to reassure you: LVF also has a lot of suitable donors


----------



## napy

Sandra, thanks for the information. This concerns us very much since we have four frozen embryos left from our last cycle at the clinic.  Are you in the same situation with embryos left from your recent successful cycle and birth?  Congratulations by the way!  Getting much sleep yet?

I also agree with what you said about having too many follicles can result in poor quality eggs.  From previous cycles we were used to higher egg retrieval numbers so when Dr. Irina told us this last go around that they only got 11 eggs, we were a bit surprised at the low number. But as it turned out we got six high quality blastocysts from those 11.  More is not always better!  Along those lines, we have been researching the optimum lining thickness for IVF and have been told that between 8mm to 12mm is good.  I have also heard the thicker the better. I don't quite agree with that thinking.  Our RE in the US told us that a lining that was too thick didn't have the right consistency and could cause implantation problems.  Have you done any research about the optimum lining thickness?


----------



## Caz

Hi all, while it's all well and good to speculate what might have happened if indeed something has, please remember this is a public forum and we need to be careful what we say, in particular to libel and defamation (Sandra, this is why your first post was part edited so please don't repeat it on the public forums  ).

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=89545.0

We know for a fact that Sana Med and LVF read these forums as they have contacted us in the past to set things straight where there's been errors in posts. I'd hate for anything said here be reported back to them and lead to legal or other consequences against you. 

If and when there's ever any published or confirmed information that can be verified with a credible source about what has happened (newspaper reports etc.) then please do feel free to share those links.

C~x


----------



## SandraNL

Well Richie, as my posts keep getting deleted, the only advise that I can give you is that it might be wise to enclose the maximum of follicles of a donor in your contract. It might harm the quality of the eggs if a donor has more than 15 follicles. Apparently it is appreciated when patients only write positive about their experiences, but we are not allowed to share any negative experiences. Too bad, as warning each other can only improve the services of clinics abroad.


----------



## Caz

Sandra, please heed what I said above. This is why your posts are edited/deleted.   You can share negative experiences; you just can't post speculative defamatious content about clinics/agencies without proof. 

C~x


----------



## SandraNL

Caz, would it then be possible to just delete a part from my post? I off course do respect that writing about rumours is not allowed, but you have deleted my whole post. The part about the amount of follicles is an important part.


----------



## Caz

Yes, I know Sandra, I temporarily removed the whole thing so I could sort out what's what and put back what's ok. Bear with me.  

EDIT: All sorted now, thanks for your patience. As I said, it's perfectly ok for you to share experiences whether they be positive or negative, but please do try and refrain from speculating about things without actual proof. I hate to be fussy about it but would rather you be able to share what you can than have to shut the whole discussion down becuase one comment made the clinic/agency complain.  

C~x


----------



## kiera19

Hi All,

Have you checked out the new web page for Sana Med..... it is much better than the previous one. 

I personally think that there has been a disagreement about money between Sana Med and LVF. Everytime i have been to Sana Med for scans ect it has always been very busy so i dont believe they are going out of business.


----------



## Nanna1

Please do not delete this post. The sitution in Ukraine is changing and it is not only one clinic. Due to some recent happenings in these clinics, the clinics seem not to take patients who are from the countries, where surrogacy is illegal. The surrogacy low can be revised in the near future. It is not expected that surrogacy would be forbidden, but some new restrictions can be specified in the low.


----------



## Richi

Hi all

any news here? Does anyone work actually with them? My second date on 22./23. was displaced again!?


----------



## kiera19

hi,

sorry to hear that news.

my surrogate mother is now 27 weeks pregnant and is attending ultrasound scans as normal and i receive feedback and pictures.

have you asked the reason why?


----------



## Richi

OK, I wait for news..

Yes, I ask. At First synchronization of cycles failed. And now stimulation was scheduled for 11. April but waiting for Menstruation of donor. But so long (11 days now)?

Bye


----------



## Donandbirgit

Can also verify that all is well. We just got a mail from Dr. Irina that our surrogate is 4 weeks pregnant and the ultrasound looks perfect


----------



## Richi

Hello, nice to hear this.


----------



## napy

Richi,
Wishing you the best of luck this week on your trip to Ukraine! Are you using the new clinic that La Vita Felice is working with or Sana Med?

Napy


----------



## Richi

Hi napy

Thank you very much thinking about me  . I am a little bit nervous in this time. I hope everything is going well. I go the second time to SANA.

Richi


----------



## SandraNL

Does anyone already has experiences with the new Russian clinic LVF is working with? Or is everyone proceeding with Sana-Med? We are still doubting to go back to Kharkov for a sibling or using another clinic, so if someone has experience with them ... please let me know.


----------



## Donandbirgit

Dear Sandra,
do I understand it correctly? You already have had sucess with Sana? Our surrogate is now in the 12.th week of pregnancy.
Iam a German citizen and my husband is American , we reside in Germany and are really worried about the formalities,to get our child back home. Do you have any experiences??

Don and Birgit


----------



## SandraNL

Hi Don and Birgit,

To make a very long story short: after two failed attempts with a surrogate and thanks to a Dutch and German doctor we succeeded with an egg donor only, so we had no legal issues with bringing our daughter home.

As surrogacy is allowed in the Netherlands (although commercial surrogacy is not allowed) the procedures to bring a child back home, is completely different from your situation as Germany doesn't allow surrogacy at all. About 3 years ago LVF told us they had experience with Dutch couples, but 2 years ago it appeared they didn't. A Dutch couple - who were clients of LVF - had to stay in Kiev for 6 months to bring their twins home. It did cost them a lot of money, as they had to hire Dutch attorneys. They were the first couple in the Netherlands who have been doing surrogacy in the Ukraine, so our government didn't know what to do with this situation.

In your situation the procedure to bring your child home is different. LVF probably told you they have experience with German couples, but in this case I think it is correct. Our taxi driver told us they have a lot of German customers. I guess there should be anyone at this forum who can help you if you start a new topic.

Congratulations with 'your' pregnancy and good luck with the legal issues!

Sandra


----------



## kare72

Hi Don and Birgit
Can you claim US citizenship for your baby and get your passport that way to get home?  My husband is Irish but I am American and as long as I am related to baby I can claim US citizenship and arrange passport that way.  Just an idea if this helps.  Best wishes and congratulations!!!!


----------



## Donandbirgit

Hi Kare 72

we live in Germany,there is really no reason for me to get a US passport. Our baby will be in my husbands passport. We just worry how things go when we fly back to Germany,will we have to explain anything about the baby?
Everything is very confusing and the German government is strictly against surrogacy.
Where do you live? Did you have a surrogate? Any experiences in the Ukraine?

Don and Birgit


----------

