# Anyone starting new cycle after 2 or more failed cycles?



## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Hi All

I'm starting down regulation for a FET cycle in a couple of weeks and just thought it would be nice to see if I can gather up a few people who are in roughly the same boat as me. I've had three failed cycles of ICSI and would have been ready to throw in the towel at this stage if it wasn't for the fact we had managed to get a blast to freeze in our last cycle.

I will probably join the cycle buddies thread as well but it would be nice to have a bit of a space to let off steam and chat with people who know what it's like to go through multiple failed cycles/chemical pregnancies/miscarriages.

Let's hope 2014 is the year! xxx


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## Rayofsunshine (Jul 28, 2013)

Hi ciacox

Just wanted to wish u luck on ur upcoming cycle! I am due to start round 2 in February and I had a chemical with ivf 1 last yr! Have u had any testing to rule out immunes prior to this cycle? X


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Thank you RayofSunshine! Let's hope this cycle is lucky for both of us xxx

I know that lots of people swear by immune tests but my clinic aren't convinced by them and having done some reading I'm not sure about them either. I am going to take steroids this cycle which apparently suppress some immune abnormality. So hard to know what to do and what to spend money on!

Hope you're feeling okay and ready to face the next round... Are you doing anything different this cycle? x


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## Jai85 (Nov 6, 2013)

Hi! 

I am currently on my 2nd cycle of ivf! My first was a mc 😔


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## rtsaintly (Oct 19, 2007)

We are on our 3rd try of IVF with ED. We've had one failed retrieval and one early mc. Hoping this is the one, as 6 years down the line I'm starting to get worn down by it.

All the luck in the world everyone.xxx


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Hi Guys

hope you're doing okay whatever point you're at.

Rtsaintly - looking at your signature it sounds like you ET is in a few days. Hope you're feeling okay and ready to get your embie(s) on board. How many are you having transferred. You've been through so much. Really hoping this is your time xxx

Jai85 - what stage are you at in your cycle?

I'm starting down regulation on feb 2nd. Thi si our first FET cycle so I'm hoping it might be less stressful than previous cycles. Simultaneously desperate to get to the end of this cycle and terrified too. If it doesn't work it will be the end of the road for us.

xxx


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## Helend75 (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm debating a new cycle following a BFN in May 13, change of clinic & a BFP in October which ended in miscarriage at 10 weeks. I hated cycle 2 - from day 1 I was in tears wondering why I was wasting my time & swore I wouldn't put myself through it again. A BFP has changed that though, I now feel a carrot has been dangled infront of me & so am thinking the unthinkable... 
We never get anything to freeze and if I can find the strength to do it a third time, I really do know it will be my last. 

Good luck to you ladies. I've only had one AF since miscarriage & we booked a nice holiday (returning Easter Monday), so it'll be April before I'm back at the clinic to discuss my options.


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Helen I'm so sorry for what you've been through. Despite my 3 BFNs, I count myself lucky to never have had my hopes raised and dashed by a miscarriage. It must be awful. 

After our second cycle we spent months undecided about what to do next and I found the indecision so difficult. Having gone for it again, it really helped to know from the outset that it's the last time (except it wasn't, because we got a surprise frostie...). Good luck with your decision and I hope you have a wonderful healing holiday x


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

It's both heartbreaking and humbling to hear parts of all your journeys. This is THE most emotional of emotional rollercoasters human beings can be on I think. We have just had our second and last failed attempt on the NHS. DH already has a daughter from a previous relationship so isn't feeling the pain like me. We have no money to pay for private treatment as we were naive when referred to NHS, whilst I am eternally grateful for the opportunity we've had I wish I'd known how long we would wait, I was 36 when referred but now just shy of my fortieth birthday! During that time we bought a house so any money we did have is tied up in that. DH won't consider having a loan but I simply cannot accept that this is the end, the thought of never having a child is too painful to express, I don't think anyone who has not been on this amazing yet often cruel journey with us can even begin to comprehend the pain. I know it's different for us all but do any of you have an idea of average goes to get success? I simply cannot give up  so am either going to push for a loan or we will sell up and rent. Am I being a mad, crazy woman doing that? I'm aware that my ability to reason is crushed at the minute. Sorry to hijack just wondered how you've all coped with the more difficult times and the thought of it being 'it'?? (Sorry can't see your names to refer to you individually, not being rude). Xxx


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## rtsaintly (Oct 19, 2007)

MissMayhem - we got ourselves in all sorts of debt to do it, and whilst it's not logical maybe, no one can say it isn't worth it when you get that BFP.

We got 20 eggs from our donor, 11 embryos. ET is on Wednesday. Trying not to go mad/ get hopes up too much/ be too negative!!!

Good luck everyone, there's a resolution out there somewhere for all of us

Rachel xxxx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

I've decided I'm going to source a loan so can proceed quickly if hubby agrees. In the meantime we will see an Holistic Healer and see if that helps in next two months (been told you have to have AF in between). If all else fails we'll get the house valued and may even sell up, drastic but simply  CANNOT give up yet. Good luck to you all, and Rachel really hope everything goes well for you Wednesday    xx


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## rtsaintly (Oct 19, 2007)

I don't know if you've looked at going abroad, but that can be a cheaper option.

We came to South Africa the 2nd time, is it was no wait for a donor and we ended up paying the same as treatment at home, but with car hire/ lovely accommodation/ flights and acupuncture included.

Xxxxxx


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Hi Ciacox,
I'm so glad you started this thread.  I'm currently awaiting my 3rd ET after 2 failed cycles and finding it so hard to know how to be.  I'm aware that being realistic isn't always appreciated when people are still full of optimism on the first cycle so feel I have to hold back a bit as to how I'm really feeling on some other threads: we all know the stats are against us but ladies do get positive results even after multiple BFNs so why not us?
This cycle's looking good and it will be blastocyst transfer on wednesday (like my cycle buddy rtsaintly - hello!  ) but we've been here before and I'm so scared of getting my hopes up again.
Like you I'm taking steroids this time to help suppress my immune system.  Could that make all the difference?  Have we just been unlucky before?
My first 2 cycles I was listening to positive visualisation CDs but this time round I think I'd have an angry voice inside my head telling the smooth-talking lady she got it wrong last time!
Missmayhem, I think you're right to explore all your options.  There's nothing worse than living with regret.
Helend, my heart goes out to you.  Like ciacox, as much as I was devastated getting my BFNs, I know it can't come close to the heartache you'll have faced with your miscarriage.  So sorry hon  
Hope everyone's doing ok.


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Hi All

missmayhem - it's sounds very clear that you're not ready to close the door on this yet. I really hope that you can find the money without doing anything too drastic. let us know how things go xxx

chocbunny - i totally relate to what your saying. it's so hard to stay positive after disappointment. i had a couple of friends suggest during my last cycle that i should stay positive because feeling negative might affect my chances. arg! it was hard to hear even though i genuinely don't believe that. I was really trying hard to just go with my feelings rather than try and control them (at the endo the day i think that's the healthiest thing any of us can do). let's hope he steroids does the trick for both of us. good luck with your ET xxx

rtsaintly - good luck with your ET too. south africa sounds amazing! xxx


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Hi all -

still haven't joined the other thread so thought i'd come on here to say hi.

I had a lovely phonecall with one of the consultants at our clinic today. we'd been for a follow up consultation/FET preparation appt with another doctor at the clinic last week. we'd been supposed to see this dr but she was called away on an emergency and one of her colleagues stood in for her. the doc we saw was perfectly nice but i just felt i wanted to talk to the doctor we saw before and get her opinion as i'd trusted her so much when we met her for follow up after round 2. anyway, i called a couple of days ago and left a message for her and she called me back today. she was so helpful and reassuring. basically she said that the answer to whether this will work probably lies in the embryo we have already made, but that of course we should do everything we can to prepare the womb lining etc. since my womb lining has been thin on previous cycles she recommended a higher dose of oestrogen. i asked about embryo glue and she said that they had trialle

d it but actually found their success rates went down with it. interesting! she also said that if we'd like her to do the transfer that could be arranged. so lovely to have the personal touch at such a big place (Guys) where sometimes you can feel anonymous. one advantage of been one of their regular customers i suppose! feeling now like i have done everything i'm prepared to do to make this work and just got to get through the next few weeks now.

went to see my friend this evening. she had another of our friends over. both of them have babies and i felt a bit thrown to suddenly be the spare wheel on a play date... but actually it was fun and i do love those babies. trying really hard not to turn into the person who can't be around children.

how is everyone. did transfers go okay chocbunny and rtsaintly? and i hope those of you making decisions are finding some light xxx


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## rtsaintly (Oct 19, 2007)

Hi Ciacox, we had 5 day transfer on Wednesday. I agree with you all - how on earth do you remain positive/ realistic/ sane and not turn into Eeyore (hehe) about it?! I'm either absolutely sure it's going to work or the opposite in any given moment!! The only good thing is knowing that all of that doesn't affect the outcome (as it says on my info sheet from the clinic) 'let yourself off the hook!'

I was thinking about the money too, and one thing we did to save money after paying for two unsuccessful treatments and then starting my own business, was to move out of our house and rent a flat instead. We rent our house out to cover the mortgage, and then we took a small flat. It was a bit of an adventure actually, and saved us about £400 a month!

Rachel xxxx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Thanks for all your words of advice. Things have gone a bit haywire here at the moment as my husband seems to have left and there's a total stranger living here with me instead! This has got to be the longest, cruellest experience of my life. When you have a normal loss the grief is instant and, if you're lucky, follows the pattern of the grieving process. IVF is a lot more complex than that huh!   xx


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Oh Miss Mayhem I'm so sorry that things are so tough. I think it's very hard to stay connected all the time in our relationships when we're going through this. As much as you need to grieve together something you have lost as a couple, there is also the personal loss of your own dreams that existed long before you ever met each other. I think the grieving for that bit is so personal that sometimes we just have to shut away and do it alone. Perhaps that's what's going on with your DH right now. It's still very early days since your failed cycle and things are bound to be stormy. Hold on tight, there will be calmer seas ahead.

I know exactly what you mean about this being a complicated grieving process. I guess it's kind of like watching someone we love going through a long illness. We keep hoping it's not terminal and medics raise our hopes that various treatments might finally cure them... It's impossible to fully grieve while we hope there might be a happy ending, but at the same time the grieving process has already begun.

Sending hugs. You are not alone and I really believe that, wherever your journey takes you, there will be better days ahead. xxx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Thanks so much Ciacox, is good to hear that others understand.  I know what you mean about the need to grieve separately but, I have to be honest, I really wonder if he is grieving at all.  He has admitted that he doesn't want it as much as me (as he has a child already) and is now saying that he thinks that he's too old.  He's accusing me of only being with him to have a baby.  What do I say to that exactly??!  Naturally, I love him and wanted my dream realised with him but had I known at the beginning of our relationship that having a baby wasn't something that he wanted to then we would not have progressed any further because it has been something that has been very important to me for years.  Discovering shared values and dreams is all what the beginnings of relationships are about surely?!  It's how we sift through what's for us and what's not!  I thought that we were in this together for the past few years but I fear I've been deluding myself, I don't know who he is anymore.  Anyway, I've found out that there's a thread on here for relationship problems so will be setting up camp there I think as it's not really appropriate for me to be on here complaining about it.  Thank you all so much for your support though, it really does help and is very much appreciated.  Good luck to you all  xx


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Ciacox, what an amazing analogy: totally captures the combination of hope, nagging despair and waiting around.  Missmayhem, just wanted to send you a big virtual hug   Our IVF journey definitely led me to see a side of DH I was less than impressed by.  It's so rubbish when you feel like you're going through so much and you just want them to show a bit of TLC and consideration.  Surely not too much to ask! We haven't yet got to that point where we disagree about whether it't time to stop treatment but I imagine it must be utter heartbreaking hell.
I did find the relationship support area helpful when I needed to vent, but please feel free to keep talking to us if it helps.  I'm worried that you could be feeling very alone.


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## rtsaintly (Oct 19, 2007)

I have to say that when we first went through the process, my OH was a bit removed. I dieted for a year to get ready, he went out drinking with his friends 2 weeks before treatment and said it was because he didnt want to let them down!    The next treatment he wasn't great either, again it felt like it was mostly me doing the research etc. In the time between the 2nd and 3rd treatment, we talked about it more and he admitted he never felt fully involved, and I think I was just sort of expecting him to know how I felt etc. He has never felt the pressure as I have, because he would be happy with just me.


This 3rd try has been completely different, and we are even closer than ever. What I am trying to say is that because they are reacting in one way during treatment, doesn't mean they can't be better for the next. We have learnt how to get through it together from each go, but honestly that first time, I could've poked his eyes out.


xxxxxxx


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## KathyN (Jun 10, 2011)

Hi ladies
I had egg collection last Monday and transfer on Saturday. This is my 3rd cycle. If I'm being honest I seem to have detached my feelings with this cycle.... I don't want to face the devastation of another miscarriage or BFN. I want this so much.
This is such a difficult thing to go through, you need balls of steel to get through it lol!!
Fingers crossed for all of you
Kathy


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Hi Kathy,
We're at a similar stage - I had EC last Friday and ET on Wednesday.  When's your OTD?  I too feel like I'm a emotionally detached this time round.  I was devastated for days after both of my last BFNs, but at the moment I don't feel like I'd need more than a little cry at most if it's not good news on my OTD on Monday.  I'm a logical person and naturally optimistic but I feel like I'm more realistic (pessimistic?) about the likelihood of it working this time round just because I can't argue with the stats, but then at the same time I'm encouraging DH to talk to our babies.  Is that cruel?
I'm scared of what it means for our future chances of having our own child if we have 3 failed cycles when it is meant to be just DH's low count that's the problem which should be sorted by the PICSI, but I think knowing that we plan to roll straight into another cycle in March if need be, is quite a comfort.


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## KathyN (Jun 10, 2011)

Hi Chocbunny
My OTD is next Tuesday so yes we are cycle buddies! I'm getting over a mild case of OHSS so I have that on my mind too!
I know what you mean about keeping that balance between being positive and realistic..... BUT at least we have reached the other side... No more Synarel for me whoop whoop!!! Lol


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## Stella10 (May 23, 2013)

Hi everyone and thanks ciacox for starting this thread.

I have had 2 failed ICSI's and both times the embryos were a bit ropey. The last cycle was slightly better than the first though so i'm hoping things will continue to improve on our 3rd. Emotions are very different to my first cycle though. The excitement has gone and DH has said that he can't imagine ever having children. Today we were in a waiting room with 4 children ranging from babies to teenagers. DH declared he didn't even like kids and what on earth were we doing! I must admit 3 out of the 4 were creating absolute havoc - I found it hilarious!!!! I worry that we'll both become reclusive mum and children haters because we'll never have children of our own and we will start to resent everyone who does. I never had these fears during my first ICSI cycle. Infertility changes the very bones of who you are. I desperately try and focus on the positives but as you know it's not easy.... so apologies in advance if I sound like an evil loon! 

Hope you are all moving forward with whichever stage you're at.

Lots of love 

S xxxx


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Hi Stella,
I can totally relate to the change you're describing.  My first cycle I didn't find pregnancy announcements hard: by the end of my second just a few months later they really physically hurt me, as so much of my hope and confidence that we would have our family, that things would work out, had been obliterated by 2 neg cycles.  Uncertainty regarding something so important - how can it not change you?
You don't sound like an evil loon at all.  A friend of mine, the most gentle and sweet-hearted girl I know, told me the day after her 2nd IVF BFN that she'd been scared to go outside after getting the result because she feared if she saw a smoking mum with her baby she'd punch her in the face!  
Infertility does test us and change us.  I guess we just have to find our best way through it and accept the lessons we learn.


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## rtsaintly (Oct 19, 2007)

I try and avoid anything to do with pregnancy - talking about it or being in the same room as pregnant women. It's been difficult as I have my own shop and cafe, but I'd just dive in the back if it looked like it was going that way. One of my friends who has suffered many miscarriages, put her house up for sale because there were 3 pregnant women in her close, and it was just too much too deal with.

I hate the 2ww and the emotional drain of treatment, but when I compare it to trying to live with not doing anything, and not being able to be around even the talk of pregnancy without being depressed for the next few days, it is actually easier to deal with.

Rachel xxxxx


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Aw Rachel, I really feel for you reading your post.  Totally agree that as hard as IVF is, it's better than living without hope.  
The 2ww is so cruel.  I feel I cope quite well with the injections, scans, side effects etc, but then all self-protection has to go out the window during the 2ww with positive visualisation and talking to your embies and the clinics telling you to live as if you're pregnant, so that by the end of the fortnight you have convinced yourself you are pregnant, and then the BFN is such a heart wrenching shock, even though you know, as a rational person, that the probability of that is higher than the BFP.
On a more positive note your OTD is just tomorrow isn't it?  I'm still torn as to whether I might start testing tomorrow too seeing as we both had day 5 blasts put back the same day and your clinic clearly think your result will be accurate, but then I've never tested early before, and while it might be interesting to see if and how the result alters in the run up to my own OTD, I'm not sure if it's an experiment I'm up for emotionally!  How are you feeling?
Anyone else got stories about testing early to help us decide whether it's right for us?


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## rtsaintly (Oct 19, 2007)

Exactly! I spent the first few days talking to them and trying to imagine them there, and now its so close, I just can't! OTD tomorrow, and I was tempted to try and sneak off to get a poas test, but then like you say - I am not sure how the results will affect me. Either way I am still going to be in limbo and have to wait for tomorrow to be sure. But surely you should be able to test maybe the day after? it's a blood test tomorrow, which is more accurate I take it, but the hormone is increasing everyday, so whilst tomorrow is the first day its at a testable level, it should be even stronger after that?


I am still feeling a bit delicate (sore boobs and acid reflux mainly) and don't really know where my head is at, but I can't say I feel awful Just sort of all over the place.


Rachel xxxx


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Maybe that explains the difference: a blood test will be more delicate than POAS to pick up lower levels as its earlier on.  Okay, I'm decided, I'm waiting til at least Sunday then!
As you say, there's no definitive answer til tomorrow for you anyway and as the blood test will be more accurate I would just wait it out.  You've been such a good girl to get to this point!  

My head is a bit all over the place too!  It's funny, I'm normally pretty good with details and focussed but I made a real clanger yesterday and it actually brought me to tears as it was a mistake that's going to cost me money, but now I'm just trying to look at it as another positive because clearly I have baby brain already!!  The things we tell ourselves!


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## rtsaintly (Oct 19, 2007)

Let it be baby brain! I have been forgetting words for things and been quite scatter brained. Thankfully I don't have anything to concentrate on, but if I did I would be making clangers too!


Waiting til Sunday sounds like the right thing to do.


xxxxx


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Hi All

just been having a read back at all your updates. I'm so glad I started this thread. I can relate so much to all your experiences. I know what you mean about the stress of IVF been easier in some ways that accepting you're at the end of the road with it. I feel really scared about facing that realisty if things don't work out with this cycle.

Stella - so good to see you here. Let's hope this is our year!

Rtsaintly - have been thinking of you today. Have my fingers and toes crossed that you have had good news. 

Chocbunny and Kathy - not long now. I HATE THE 2WW!! Keep trying to figure out if there is a way I can make it easier this time. I've never tested early before but have a feeling I might break this time.

I'm starting DR on sunday and the drugs arrived yesterday. Kind of a sinking feeling. Have been madly busy with work trying to get a bit ahead because I know my productivity will go massively down once I'm on the rollercoaster...


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## FlyingCat (Jan 23, 2011)

Hello,

I'm not sure I really belong in this thread as although we're definately going to try again we're taking a year off first to rest and try and improve DHs sperm results - seems you ladies have a lot in common with me however so thought I'd jump in. (hello former cycle buddies!).

The thing someone said which really resonates with me is that keeping going feels easier and less scary than accepting we're at a full stop. So true. I was very sure we weren't going to try again but I realised I just can't stop yet.

I guess my position is rather different to many of you in that I already got lucky once, rather than avoiding PG women or babies I find myself shopping for baby clothes and equipment and planning the next time. Its not helping that practically all of the women I know who had babies around the same time as my daughter are pregnant again and if I hear one more woman moan about how hard it is having two I might have to punch them. I tend to be really (overly) open about the fact that we've just had two failed IVF cycles to try for number two and they don't know how lucky they are. Soon shuts most of them up.

Anyway I hope some of you chose to stick around and keep chatting for a while.

Cat


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## rtsaintly (Oct 19, 2007)

Welcome Cat  That sounds like the right approach to get them to stop moaning. Someone the other day was sort of half jokingly moaning to me that she felt old and that she couldn't enjoy her life anymore because she couldn't get drunk and shop for clothes! 


Ciacox - the main advice seems to be don't test early! I know someone did and got a bfn, then on the actual day was a bfp, so she had put herself through it for nothing. AFM, after 6 years and our 3rd attempt, we finally got our   this morning. Many times I thought it was never going to happen. But, like someone else has said, it's a numbers game!


Keeping everything crossed for everyone still waiting.xxxx


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Rtsaintly - wonderful news!! BFPs on this thread have extra special status! So excited for you xxxxx

Flyingcat - so glad you joined us xxx


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## FlyingCat (Jan 23, 2011)

Oh RTSaintly, thats such wonderful news I'm delighted for you - hope you enjoy a nice healthy pregnancy.

We had our first urologist appt today so I'm back in the world of hopefulness once again. Mr Ramsay seemed to have quite a few possible suggestions of what's wrong for us and what's more they appear to be largely treatable. I'm slightly daydreaming about a magical world where he fixes DHs sperm so well that we end up getting PG the old fashioned way and can actually have the 4 kids me and DH always dreamed about. (Greedy I know).

Back in a month with a load of test results!


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Flyingcat that would be amazing! Keep us updated. Really pleased to hear that the urologist visit was positive xxx


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## Shy1 (Jan 11, 2014)

I would say never give up hope, im lucky enough to have 3 children although at one point i was told i may need ivf, i donated my eggs a couple of months ago to a lady i gather had unexplained and quite a few ivf attempts but they thought maybe younger eggs would help and she got a bfp and 2 frozen! Good luck


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

I've voiced it before and I'll voice it again - thank God for this thread Ciacox! Chocbunny you hit the nail on the head when you said you were worried I was feeling very alone. Seeing it written down like that, and by someone who doesn't know me, really validated my feelings and brought a tear to my eye, well in fact it made me cry. But it helped so, so much for someone to really 'hear' me, because people don't want to hear do they, that's the reality. They ask how you are but they want to hear that you're 'ok', well I don't do fibs so I would sooner people not ask. I totally agree that the pains of IVF totally outweigh the terror of it being 'the end' and the end was kind of what I was having to deal with last time I posted, no luck with NHS, no answers as to why I can't conceive, no money to go private and then seemingly no option to progress as DH dropped the bomb of not being in the same boat with me. But, I'm not giving up, I simply cannot. It's not an option for me yet, when I thought it was it was all I could do to keep breathing. Hopefully we will get through this and we too will have some luck, that's the only way I can think at present. You just cannot underestimate the strength that truly knowing you are not alone gives you, and that's what I've got from all you girls (as none of us are 'old' as some of these consultants would have us believe!!  ) Rachel I am sooooo delighted you finally got there and hope we will be hot on your coat tails!! Love, luck and thanks to you all.xxxx


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Aw MissMayhem.  I'm glad in some small way it helps to have us here.    It is so incredibly tough this journey and something no-one prepares us for.
Tomorrow is our OTD.  Don't know whether to be optimistic as I've not bled as I did in both previous cycles by now, but then I'm on a higher dose of cyclogest (3 a day!) so that might be the real reason.  So nervous as I remember the devastation of the BFNs and how long it took to feel back to normal.  
Oh well.  Not long to go now!  Please say a little prayer for me  
Best of luck to all you and thank you for all your support and companionship.  Here's hoping I can bring more good news along with rtsaintly's


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Miss Mayhem - thinking of you. Hoping you can make it work to think about another go. You are not alone!

Chocbunny - sending love and hope your way. Desperately hoping this is your time xxx

Started the DR spray today. At the moment it all feels pretty surreal. Still coming to terms with the failure of the last cycle and feels odd to be going again (but equally would not want to wait). Right now it feels very unlikely it will work and mostly I'm preparing myself for the grieving that would come after if it didn't. But I know by the time I get to ET (if our frostie gets that far) I will start filling with hope...


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## Summer13 (Mar 11, 2013)

Hi all, Hope you don't mind me joining in? I'm not currently cycling, but trying to pluck up the courage to do it all again,  feeling completely worn down by it, but like someone has already said the idea of giving up completely, feels worse than the thought of carrying on, i think!! Just starting to feel like everything was starting to settle down a little and so worried about what more failed cycles would do to us. My relationship with my partner has been a lot better, and i've actually started focusing on other things in my life, which feels great. Anyway, just wanted to chat. Have had quite a few cycles now, one that failed to get to embryo collection due to overstimulation, one unsuccessful cycle, one successful that ended in miscarriage, and the last three failed fet's, pretty exhausting. Wondering if i'm ever going to be able to take that next step in having more treatment. Have decided to move clinics (at least i'm pretty sure thats what we need to do) and it seems like starting all over again, and i completely scared to death by it all. Sorry for the long message, so nice to talk on here x


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## Stella10 (May 23, 2013)

Hi everyone,
Well we've had a change of plan and a new clinic. Our doc has decided to go with a long protocol as short protocol didn't seem to get a lot of eggs considering my AMH. The embryos were also rubbish. I finally asked about the million and one drugs i was going to be on - aspirin, oestrogen, progesterone, melatonin, clexane, steroids + stimm drugs. It's getting scrapped. We're going for a simple long- protocol but with a higher stimm dose, an embryoscope, endometrial scratch and embryo glue. Let's see hat happens. Feeling slightly more optimistic.

*Summer* I can recommend switching clinics. If nothing else it's nice to feel in control of something! I've switched for the second time after seeing updated results and don't have any regrets. It's also given me one perspective on the variation in treatment protocols.

*RTsaintly* congratulations xx

*chocbunny* good luck with your OTD xx

*miss mayhem*    

*flyingcat* good luck with your test results xx

*ciacox* I've never done the sniffing thing - is it weird?? I'm down-regging in 2 weeks and I think they might want me to do that but I have no idea. Don't give up hope yet xx

Have a lovely week everyone xxx


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## rtsaintly (Oct 19, 2007)

Summer - I would definitely change clinic if you feel you want to. We have had 3 different clinics, and for each one I learnt a bit more, and they all work in slightly different ways. Also, for us, this was the first time in years we had had a proper break from treatment and focused on other things. I had opened my own business and we had concentrated more on each other and ourselves. In part it was because we didnt think we would be trying again, so it forced us to do that. This time around it felt a lot less desperate and fraught, maybe because there was enough time to recover between treatment. I certainly felt more equipped to deal with whatever it was going to throw at us.


Rachel xx


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## MissMayhem (Feb 24, 2013)

Hi everyone just a quick 'thanks' for the support and   and sending some back to you all    . Summer I hope you're feeling a bit better. Hope everyone's hanging in and on. Chocbunny sending you love. Take care all xxx


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Hi All

Summer - welcome. It's so hard isn't it? It gets to the point that the decision about what to do next feels so stressful. Moving clinic sounds like a good idea. Sometimes I wish we'd done that but I could never face it.

Stella - that sounds positive. Like the sound of your new clinic. So when are you getting started?

Chocbunny - have been thinking of you. xxx

Five days into DR and have that familiar under the weather feeling. But I've also had a cold and loads of late nights so it could be that. Stella - the nasal spray is annoying. Now that I'm an old hand at injections I'd so much rather have them. Have to spray four times a day which means taking it with me everywhere (and probably sounding like I'm snorting drugs to anyone who happens to be in the cubicle next to me in the work toilets...). I also get paranoid that I haven't pumped it right as sometimes I feel almost nothing, and other times it feels like half of it drips out of my nose. 

Think I might have set myself up for a bit of a stressful weekend. It's my birthday tomorrow and a couple of months ago it felt like it would be a great idea to invite loads of friends to come down to my mum's house in Devon for the weekend (mum is on holiday). Now Devon seems to be underwater and I'm feeling really stressed about how everyone will get there. And I'm also wondering why I wanted to spend my birthday with so many people with kids!   Hoping I will feel more up for it once we all arrive


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## BobbyD (Jan 27, 2014)

thanks for inviting me on Ciacox and lots of luck for this time. Just getting to grips with all the abbreviations everyone uses
I am 42 and just starting my third cycle which is going to take 4 months
On being positive my hypnotist said to me there is no point preparing yourself for the worst as it doesn't help to feel bad before!!
Also someone told me about 'The secret'  I have the cd's playing in my car.  It is all about positive thinking and I find it really helpful if a little bit over the top!!


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## Summer13 (Mar 11, 2013)

Ciacox, I live in Devon and sure its been one hell of a rainy week and lots of water in the fields, but its not that that bad, honest, and the roads generally seem to be ok. You'll be fine if as long as you bring your rubber dingy. Just kidding!!! The water levels had gone down loads yesterday. I'm sure they make things sound far worse on the news. Dont let it put you off x

Thanx everyone for your advice. I do know i need to change clinics. I know because the thought of going back to ours feels me with dreed, its just that the thought of changing clinics also scares me to death!! Anyway, i should be getting ready for work!, will write later.

Have a good day everyone (from sunny Devon, Ha, Ha!) x


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Morning ladies,
Well, as I know you guessed given I went AWOL, we got another BFN.  It's different each time isn't it.  The first BFN, there's so much shock and pain.  This 3rd BFN, the shock and pain aren't so bad as I've been here before and know I'll get through it, but the despair is growing and the confidence that it will work if we're patient and keep strong and positive is starting to waver.
Thank you for your kind thoughts and for letting me have a poor-old-me post.  I'm stuck in that horrible stage of just not knowing what to do with myself.
Summer13, I know you know this already, but I can't imagine starting a new cycle and approaching the clinic full of dread.  I'm questioning whether it's time to move on from my clinic, but only because it's been 3 BFNs when they said I should be a straight forward case with better than average chance of success.  I feel really cared for there.  Hope you find a way forward that feels more positive.


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## FlyingCat (Jan 23, 2011)

Oh Chocbunny you poor thing. Massive hugs.

for me what helped to decide to go into another cycle each time has been knowing that we had changed something or done something different to improve our chances.

I see from your signature your male factor - have you seen a urologist to see if there's anything additional that can be done to improve your odds?


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Hi Flyingcat, thanks for your message.
DH had testicular cancer in his mid 20s (1 testicle removed and lots of chemo) so I think we have pretty much just accepted that the quality of his sperm is irreparably damaged.  He is fit and healthy and has spent the last 18 months on expensive fertility pills and avoiding caffeine and alcohol and we were excited to see quite an improvement in the first semen analysis 3 months after making the changes, but the next 2 SAs showed a return to the normal very low levels and the embryologists and nurses have been gentle but clear that they don't think a change in diet or vitamins will make a difference for him, that the 1 test out of 6 was just natural variation - a blip.
I see you're seeing a urologist for your DH.  I'm really interested to hear what you've learned.  There seems so little emphasis on fixing the male factor.


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## FlyingCat (Jan 23, 2011)

You're right there really seems to be so little done on that side.

Our guy is testing for hormonal imbalances, infections and varicoceles which might be causing overheating. While you're right there's a lot that can't be fixed there's also a fair number of things which can but they're all pretty new.

If you have some budget I'd arrange to talk to someone.


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## Summer13 (Mar 11, 2013)

Hi everyone, Thanx for you advice. It nice to hear other people have changed clinics once or even two times. I guess when we are paying for it we should make sure we are getting the best treatment. I do feel like we need a new approach, and it might help to make us feel positive about it again. I guess i could just make an appointment with one of even two clinics and go from there.
I guess our options are the Oxford fertility unit, Bristol, Cardiff, create in Bristol (i think a new clinic had just opened up there), or the Lister satelite clinic in Oxford. If anyone has any experience of any of these i would be most grateful. I'm thinkinh Oxford would be good as i have parents there who i could stay with, gets lifts etc. My partner doesnt drive so this would be a good option, plus i think the OFU has a good reputation. Thinking that the Lister would be really expensive, so that might be out. Also, not sure if they mostly deal with female fertility problems? 
Does anyone have experience of gentle ivf? Sorry to babble on. Hope you are all ok? x


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## rtsaintly (Oct 19, 2007)

Maybe check out the different boards on here for the different clinics, I'm not sure if any of those have boards that include input from the actual clinic?

Xxxxx


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## monalisa84 (Aug 21, 2012)

I had my NHS cycle with Oxford fertility unit. If you want a stress free, well organised IVF cycle, they are probably the best but thinking of the end goal, I do not like them at all.

I begged to them to prescribe progesterone after BFP but they did not listen to me. Soon after stopping progesterone I miscarried. I would never know if that was the reason but I will never forgive them. I also told them I would buy, just give that prescription but they would say some stupid randomised controlled trial has shown it does not help. Well it does not do any harm, why not let the patient buy using her own money. OFU is disgusting.

All I would tell you that they won't do anything different to what your previous clinic did. They just leave it to chance factor after transfer whereas other clinics would fight for it throughout your pregnancy. BFP means nothing, what counts is the end result.

If I am not wrong, ARGC now has satellite clinic in Oxford, why not try there? Trust me, there is nothing better than that.


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Chocbunny - I'm so sorry to hear your news.   Thinking of you and hope you and your DH are finding time and space to grieve this.   I know what you mean about each BFN having a different flavour. I have really found that too.

Summer - it's so hard to choose clinics isn't it? Take your time and definitely get advice from others on this board. I hope the decision is not too stressful xxx

Just back from my weekend in Devon. In the end it was so lovely to see all my friends (and their wonderful children...). we have been pretty open with our close friends about the rubbish year we've had and it felt like people really took the opportunity to love me up! felt very spoilt. and i admit to having a few drinks. nothing crazy but i've decided that since it's a FET cycle my body has already done the hard work in making the egg. detox now tho til the transfer in a couple of weeks. still DRing and no sign of my period, altho it was due today... have not been feeling too bad on the downreg so far, hardly any headaches and no more moody than usual! (of course, this has led me to worry that i'm not using the spray right but i think it's more likely i've just been lucky this time)


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## BobbyD (Jan 27, 2014)

Chocbunny I am so sorry to hear your news. Are we allowed to mention what clinics we have tried and what ones we are with as I have a lot more confidence in the one I am with now as I feel they are not leaving a stone unturned where as I did not have that confidence in my first clinic although they were very efficient !!


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Hi BobbyD (glad you found us here!). Yes, you are definitely allowed to mention. I think some people don't because they prefer to stay a bit more anonymous but lots of us do xxx


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## Summer13 (Mar 11, 2013)

o no, had just started to convince myself that the oxford fertility unit was the way to go! How many cycles did you have there monalisa? x


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## monalisa84 (Aug 21, 2012)

Summer,

I hope you do not completely discard OFU based on my feedback. I had one cycle with them and that was what NHS would allow here. I have to admit I had maximum fertilisation there and I still have 3 frozen blasts in their lab. I can not flaw their process till fertilisation though most of the process for me was done in cheltenham satellite center other than egg collection and transfer.

What I do not like about them is complete lack of care after the transfer. Then you are just left to chance, no drug support, no blood test, nothing.

I had one ectopic and one miscarriage before my successful cycle with ARGC which was full of scare. So, to me holding onto pregnancy is of significant importance.


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## Summer13 (Mar 11, 2013)

Thanx. I guess everyones experience is different. I would love to be able to afford to go to ARGC but i've been chatting to someone on the ARGC thread and the cost of a treatment cycle there seems massive. I'm absolutely shocked, if you get pregnant the cost of treatment and aftercare can amount the 25k! Would that be your experience of it too? I want to do everything that we can this time but i just cant imagine ever spending that much, especially if it didnt work. Must get ready for work! thanx for your replies x


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## monalisa84 (Aug 21, 2012)

Summer,

The figure you have been quoted is possible but only if you have serious immune issues that need to be taken care of.

Also please remember that most of this cost is after care cost when you are carrying a baby. My experience is once the baby is there, you really do not mind to throw everything to save her. So, it is not true that you would be spending this much and won't have anything because after care starts only after you are pregnant. Yes, there are people who are extremely unlucky and disaster happened at 22 weeks or so but I do not think one should plan for such rare events.

If I remember correctly the average cost of a cycle is around 9K considering you do not need any special immune treatment with Humira. After that if it is BFP, it is upto you whether you spend money or not. You can still chose to follow what other clinics would do that is to treat your case as normal pregnancy and proceed and do not go back to ARGC, none would complaint. In my experience, anyone having lost a baby before does not generally opt for this option as they appreciate that BFP is not everything.

I have made a promise to myself that I would never discuss the actual cost for the cycle as what I have got is more important than all the wealth in the world but I can tell you that I am not  rich. I even considered to relocate to Swindon and travel to work to avail the facility of 3 free NHS cycles but later decided against it as I felt time is running out.

I know it is easy to say this once the result is positive but I have no doubt that they are the best. I would say if you think you can spend around 10K, go for ARGC. Whether you are willing to spend more after your BFP is upto you.

Also do not forget to check Serum in Greece, they are the next best after ARGC and they are much cheaper. Many people opt for Serum for low cost solution and there is a huge success rate.


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## FlyingCat (Jan 23, 2011)

Hi Guys, thought I'd chip in some alternative thoughts on the choice of clinic debate. Monalisa - not that everything you've said isn't absolutely right but I just thought there are also some other angles to look at this situation too.

Personally I do not think I would ever choose to go for ARGC/ Lister/ Serum but would remain with one of the more conservative/ traditional clinics, and that's despite being London based and we could probably scrape the money together if we needed to (and I've tried to put myself in the position of not already having a child here to eliminate the reasons which are to do with that). That said I completely agree with those that do - I simply believe that each of our reasons for being here and our risk appetites are different.

The reasons why I would chose somewhere different are;

- we have male factor issues and while they treat these they do not typically specialize in this area.
- We have no evidence of immune issues ARGC and Lister are specialists in immune treatments
- We have never had miscarriage (let alone repeat miscarriage) and these more front line clinics specialize in very strong anti miscarriage protocols.
- The clinics with more aggressive approaches admit freely that they probably over-medicate a proportion of those they treat just to be on the safe side. I already find myself quite nervous about the amount of hormone therapies I've put my body through for IVF and what the long term (unstudied as yet) consequences may be. I prefer to take the minimum possible drugs for a good outcome.


As for whether OFU are or are not a good clinic? Certain clinics are more or less happy to follow unproven treatments. And remember most of the extras are indeed unproven at this point. The guys running them do this in good faith. There are I believe also restrictions on mixing and matching NHS treatment with private add ons (I don't really understand why though).

A lot of clinics follow their standard protocols with a few modifications for specific circumstances for first cycles, particularly if you're an NHS patient you may not get agreement to change much. For a lot of people this will work. For most others this first cycle provides valuable diagnostic information. However if no changes are made after two or more failures I'd begin to be dissatisfied. 

You also have to trust your clinic and feel like they listen to you - very important and you may be able to decide this based on a consultation. Monalisa I completely agree you made the right decision to move clinics when that trust is not there, however personally I would not write off OFU because of it.

Summer if I were you I would take some time and budget, take a copy of your notes and have consultations with a few clinics. Ask what they think is going wrong based on the evidence you have so far, and see how they would plan to treat you that would be different from what you've done before. If they recommend further testing then this might be the time to go forward with that too - eg immunes testing or additional sperm testing. With this done you can work out which clinic is addressing your personal needs the best and which you trust.

Hope this helps rather than confuse the matter further.

Best of luck.


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## Summer13 (Mar 11, 2013)

Hello! Thanks everyone. I've had a really tiring long day and i'm feeling quite emotional, but reading your posts has really cheered me up. I'm so so grateful to be able to talk to people on here about these things because I don't really have the opportunity to discuss them with anyone else. My partner will, but we just don't, I'm not sure why, and both our sets of parents just don't seem to ever mention babies or ivf to us anymore. possibly they don't want to upset us, but actually not talking about it upsets me more. 

I think I would consider one of the London clinics, possibly Argc, because of their success rates, but gosh even 10K would take a miracle to scrape together, I still owe almost that on my student loan!! If I had loads of money, or someone offered to pay for it! (how nice would that be), I would or course do it. But we don't have that sort of spare cash, or rich relatives! I guess I could take out a loan, but the idea of that scares me.

I wonder if ARGC do more different tests for immunity?? My clinic have told me that all my blood tests regarding this are ok. 

I also have a concern that ARGC do seem to primarily treat female fertility issues, but maybe this isn't the case? And as we have mfi, perhaps having such expensive fertility treatments is unnecessary? Hmmmm

Just realised i'm so tired i'm probably not making much sense! Best go to bed. 

Flying cat, you are right I should request my notes and visit and make some appointments at other clinics. Thanx for your reply x

Anyway, I do feel a little more able to start making some decisions.
Thanks all, Night x


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## Luck2014 (Oct 1, 2013)

Hi Mona Lisa 84

Could I ask what test you are suggesting in your last post - you mention that there are tests to do after a BFP? I'm thinking, if I'm fortunate to get a BFP next cycle then I would defo get them done to sustain my pregnancy as I had a mmc last time.  I thought tests had to be done beforehand.  Thank you for your help,


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Hi guys
Hope everyone's doing okay. Sorry for no personals. This is going to be a quick all about me post. 
Got my period on Mon and started the oestrogen pills and patches. Got to say, taking for oestrogen pills a day plus a patch every three days feels like binging! I'm on five times as much as I would be if I were on hrt...
Maybe it's the hormone overload but I feel like I'm starting to freak out a bit. On previous cycles I've been anxious on a day to day level (what if I forgett to take my meds, fall off my bike, etc). But this feels bigger. I'm just so so terrified of reaching the end and another bfn. The fear is just overwhelming and I don't know what to do .i feel like I'm at the top of a  rollercoaster just waiting fur it to drop - you know that physical feeling in your stomach and chest. My partner has flu and is super busy with work so he's just not in the emotional space to help me through this. Just need to write it down so I can get it off my chest and have some hope of getting some work done today. 

Thanks for listening! Xxxx


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## FlyingCat (Jan 23, 2011)

Oh Ciacox, I only just saw your post!

So sorry you're feeling so bad - remember all made so much worse by the evil drugs.

I do hear what you're saying about fear of it being the last ditch attempt too. All I can suggest is just take one step/ day at a time. Big Hugs

How are things going now?


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Thanks flying cat. Weird to read that post back now as have been feeling fairly normal the last couple of days. Just keeping my head down and hoping all is well with the womb lining at my scan next week. How are things with you? Any news from the urologist? Xxx


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## Stella10 (May 23, 2013)

Hi everyone,

Sorry I haven't been on. I've been trying to cram as much work as possible into the last few weeks in an attemp to reduce my stress levels during my next cycle.

*ciacox* glad to hear you're feeling better. We invest so much into these cycles (physically and mentally) I'm surprised we don't have more wobbles. How's your lining? Xx

*flyingcat* how's your expert urology consult going? One of my childhood friends has just been told that her DH needs to see a urologist for fertility purposes. Sounds like you have a good one. Xx

AFM bit if a wobble last week. DH and I have been seriously considering not starting our next cycle and focusing on the many positives in our lives for which we are very grateful. I'm just not ready to stop yet. I know where he's coming from but I keep thinking 'what if' 'will I regret it later' and so on.... We have always been on the same page before so I'm hoping this isn't the beginning of a bigger disagreement . He's agreed to continue so we start down reg soon. I'm doing long protocol this time. I've never done that before.... Bit worried about the side effects but you've all coped so hopefully I will too .

Good luck xxxxx


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## FlyingCat (Jan 23, 2011)

Hi Stella,

Wow time for another cycle already - it goes by so fast!

Regarding LP, lots of people notice next to no side effects so don't build them up too much, and even if you get bad ones then just be kind to yourself. I find lots of water, duvet and chocolate make for a good experience.

If you're really having doubts maybe put it off for a few months and give yourself a bit of a break to regroup? If you do go ahead (have you started already?) then remember to take it one day at a time and not worry about the result too early.

We've got our followup at the urologist clinic on Friday. DH did most of his tests last friday and has an ultrasound on the morning of the appointment. On the one hand I'm really looking forward to hearing what the outcome is in the hope that it will point to something we can at least try, but on the other hand I'm scared silly that he'll come back and say there's nothing to be done and we have to make do with the quality (rubbish) that we've got. Since we're not willing to consider donor sperm that would mean that we're back to the numbers game - pushing through more IVF cycles until find the needle in the haystack of a good sperm. And I'm not sure I can do that. Until we have the appointment I can keep my piped dream of something being found that improves things so much that we end up pregnant naturally. (And I'm really enjoying that particular dream  )

Ciacox, how are you doing? Are you post transfer yet?


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Hi Guys

good to hear from you. 

Stella - sorry to hear about your wobble. I think some of the hardest times on this journey come up when there is disagreement with partners. I hope things are muddling along okay now. I've been there (re donor sperm) and it's so hard to know how to handle negotiating about something that's so fundamentally important. In your case, I can't help thinking that stopping before you're ready will generate more regret and pain for you than carrying on longer than he'd like to would do for your partner. But maybe that's because I find it easier to empathise with the need to keep trying! Anyway, I'm glad you are continuing and I hope you guys are managing to support each other through. Hope the DR is okay for you - it's been varied for me each time but this time I didn't really feel it much. When do you start?

Flyingcat - good luck for tomorrow. I'm so hoping you get some hope inspiring news! If you don't mind me asking (rather a personal thing to ask about a person's husband!), is the problem due to undescended testicles or is it something else? If UDTs I would be especially interested in the result.

AFM -  ... Just back from the hospital after two and a half weeks on twice the usual dose of oestrogen: womb lining only 5.5mm... This is my worst ever... Actually started crying while she still had the camera in! Have usually made it to 7mm at least before. They are giving me another week on even more oestrogen and have done a blood tests to check my levels are where they should be. Hung around to see our doctor who was lovely but very honest and said that this might well be the best it gets... So fed up. Apart from anything else, the extra week's delay means my DP will be in Canada for OTD. Not even sure whether to do the transfer if nothing's changed next week - just feel it won't give our embryo a fair crack. But the thought of scrapping it all and starting again when there is no reason to think things would be different next time is exhausting. To be honest, a big part of me is just desperate to get it over with. Although of course I'm still hoping it will work, I know that the chances are against us and we are both beginning to feel ready to grieve and move on now.


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## FlyingCat (Jan 23, 2011)

Oh Ciacox - what a horrible situation - Here's hoping that your lining sorts itself out over the next week. 

I can't quite remember do you normally have lining issues on cycles? If it doesn't get above the minimum I wonder is it worth cancelling this go and trying a natural FET without DR and see if that gives you a better lining?

I do hear you about wanting to move on and start looking at adoption but remember that you are full of hormones right now so difficult to make decisions about the long term (do you remember Elf from the last cycle was telling us that in Germany you have to sign a contract agreeing not to make any life changing decisions during the process - I think they have a point!) Wait and see how you feel when not full of drugs I suggest.

Stella, any update? Are you DRing yet or did you decide to delay?

afm we had urologist appointment this morning and..... We have a treatable cause for some or all of our male factor rubbishness. DH's semen analysis tested positive for Reactive Oxygen Species - which basically means his white blood cells have been active in and around his testicles suggesting a silent infection. This was also backed up by the testicular ultrasound which showed inflamation of his tubes.

So DH is on a three week course of antibiotics and high level antioxidents for three months but Mr R is hopeful we should see significant improvement. So much so he even started talking about us trying naturally (Now there's a thought!!!!!).

You know I find it bizarre that despite knowing since the beginning that we have very poor sperm with low morphology and motility nobody ever thought to try and fix that before heading out on the IVF route - I don't know whether a) this is new science, b) the other consultants don't know this is out there or c) the wider medical community don't believe this works... If I were talking to anyone with poor sperm in future I'd be pushing for them to talk to a good urologist before doing anything else.

Anyway I've got my hope back this week. Maybe our second child is possible after all.


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Flyingcat - this is really wonderful news! I'm so pleased to hear this. What happens now? The antibiotics etc and then another semen analysis? You're right, it is weird that this wasn't checked sooner. I can't help thinking it's partly about a blindspot in the fertility industry which means that, even when there is obviously a male factor problem, the focus of action and intervention is automatically on the woman. Keep us updated! How amazing to think abut trying naturally again.

Things have settled down a bit since our unhappy scan on Thurs. Still feeling pretty low and disappointed but trying to take one day at a time. Dr called back on Fri to say we had been discussed at the weekly review meeting and they have decided to try prescribing viagra, as there is some (very limited) evidence that this can improve things (unfortunately the best evidence is for viagra in a suppository form which isn't available in the UK). Crazy time on Friday as I had to rush to the hospital to pick up a private prescription and then go to two different pharmacies with it (first one only had the brand name version - £118 compared to £17 for the generic one!). First pharmacist looked at me strangely and said 'one tablet of this twice a day? I'm really not sure about that!". Anyway, a new drug to the cocktail (sadly it's no fun for women - at least not for me - just gives me a headache and hot flushes). Even if it doesn't work we can feel we've tried everything. Not sure what we will do if lining hasn't increased. My lining is always thin and I actually think it would be worse on an unmedicated cycle (as my periods tend to be heavier after treatment). 

Anyway, it's DPs 40th today and we had a really fun party yesterday. Was great to enjoy ourselves with friends and remember how lucky we are in so many parts of our lives.

Hugs to you all xxx


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## FlyingCat (Jan 23, 2011)

Hi ciacox, I'm guessing you've had your next scan. Hope it went ok, thinking of you.


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Hey there - yes, had the scan on Friday and lining had dragged itself to 6.5mm. Not great but as far as we got last cycle. They advised against waiting any longer so we are booked in for transfer on Friday. I know that a womb lining this thin does bring down our chances but I really feel that over the last year we've tried every trick in the book (endo scratch, aspirin, viagra, acupuncture, brazil nuts, pineapple, raspberry leaf tea, i could go on...) and it's always 6.5-7mm. I had hoped that a FET cycle might be the answer because we could go so long in this phase and see if we could play the waiting game but it's not meant to be. Dr is confident this is as good as we can get it and we are all keen to move on to transfer. Have now been on the oestrogen for over 4 weeks, huge dose (reckon I've taken 6 months worth of HRT now!), and viagra on top of that the last 9 days. To be honest, I've been feeling a bit grim the last few days. Very headachey and nauseous. So I'm accepting what we have an hoping our embie will hold on tight! Please keep your fingers crossed for Friday that it makes it through the thaw xxx

Hope things are okay with you! Is your DH on the meds yet. Hope he's doing okay. 

Love to you too Stella. Hope you and yr DH are through the recent wobble xxx


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Thinking of you ciacox.  Everything crossed


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Thanks chocbunny. Good to hear from you. I hope you and your dh are doing ok. Do you have any plans yet for what you're going to do next? 

Hope everyone enjoyed the lovely spring day today. Made me feel excited about summer, whatever it brings! Xxx


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

We're all set to do another cycle as soon as AF shows up, so of course she is days late for the first time in years!
It appears my last cycle was an immunes issue rather than a failure to implant issue so we'll be adding some IVIG or IL into the mix this time.


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## Stella10 (May 23, 2013)

Hi everyone,

Lots and lots of luck Ciacox for Friday - let's hope the oestrogen and Viagra concoction does the trick. I've heard that frozen transfers work better for some women when compared with fresh. I really hope this is the one for you.     hope your feeling better too xx

Thank you ciacox and flyingcat for the support. It really does mean a lot. After our wobble we talked (a lot) and decided to just go ahead and re-think if things didn't work out. Optimistic eh?! This being our 3rd cycle.... so I start stimms today after d/r for 2 weeks. Apart from my memory going to pot it wasn't too bad. I'm on double the dose of stimms this time. Let's see what happens.

Flying cat - fantastic news in the urology front. It's odd that the focus is always on the woman. I wonder how many couples could have conceived with the help of a urologist and will never know. I keep hoping that there's going to be this amazing scientific breakthrough which is suddenly going to guarantee a child - wouldn't that be nice  

Chocbunny - hope your AF turns up soon! Will you be doing short or long protocol? I've not been recommended the immune stuff so will be interested to hear what it's like.


Good luck everyone xxxx


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## FlyingCat (Jan 23, 2011)

Hi Stella, How is your stimming going? Have you had first scan yet? I have everything crossed for you!

Ciacox, how did the thaw go? did you have your transfer today? Also hoping for you  

Still waiting for drugs to arrive here - due tomorrow - although it will still be at least 3 months after that before we know if its worked - not worrying about tx for a while - concentrating on trying to get fit/ lose weight although my fourth cold/ ENT infection in a month is not exactly helping!


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Hi Guys

not good news for us today. Just about to head out the door for ET when the embryologist called to let us know that our little frostie did not survive the thaw. Of course, I knew this was a possibility and was nervous about it but when it actually happened it felt like a huge shock. This is the end of the road for us and I just didn't expect it to end this way. I had been looking forward to having the embryo on board, if only for a couple of weeks. Had funny films lined up to watch and, as much as I know I hate hate hate the 2ww, I am grieving my last chance to be even a tiny bit pregnant. Of course the bigger grief is that we are letting go of our dream of having a baby at all. We do plan to adopt and I know that I will be excited about that when I'm ready. But I also know it's a very different thing.

Perhaps one good thing is that the shock of this morning's phonecall brought on a huge wave of tears. Sometimes I have felt a bit numb in this process and have worried that I wasn't feeling things properly. Not the case this morning! Then we went out for a ridiculously expensive lunch, drank gin in the park, and home to bed by 6pm!

This is by the by but I just need to say it somewhere because it keeps going through my head: the odds have never been kind to us. When we're told there's a 50,40,25% chance of getting pregnant (the chances went down each cycle), it never went out way. And when we were told there was a 10% chance of the embryo not surviving the thaw, it still didn't go our way. Grrr! We're getting a clear message that this is not the journey for us.

Stella - I hope the stims are going well for you. And I really hope this is your time! Cheering you on from here xxx

Hugs to you all


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Flyingcat - our posts crossed. Hope the meds are okay for your hubbie. Let's all please stay in touch! It means so much to have buddies who understand xxx


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## FlyingCat (Jan 23, 2011)

Oh Ciacox that's such horribly horribly tough news. I'm so sorry for your loss.

I hope you are able to take some good clear time to heal now that this has passed and that you can feel like you tried everything you could. No regrets. You have done enough.

I absolutely hope you will stay in touch as I want to hear when you finally bring home your baby - be it through adoption or otherwise.

I'm sorry, I can't remember what your diagnosys was, is there any hope for a miracle one day or is there no chance without further treatment?

In the meantime and knowing that there is a 6 month wait before formally putting in adoption paperwork - I hope you and DH get to spend some wonderful time together remembering how good just you two are. If you can get through this you are a strong couple.


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Thanks FlyingCat.

Our diagnosis is severe oligozoospermia. DP had undescended testicles corrected when he was little and produces very few sperm - we've never actually been given a number, always 'too low to count'. Not sure why our treatment has never worked. Maybe just bad luck but perhaps also that my thin womb lining brings down our chances. And I have low AMH so my eggs are probably not optimum. I've also wondered if we have the DNA fragmentation issue that you guys have - I originally thought that couldn't be the case if we were making it to blast but have read otherwise on here. Who knows where research will lead and whether there may be a chance of a miracle for us in years to come. But my strong instinct is that our miracle lies in the adoption journey. I think we would only return to thinking about treatment if for some reason we weren't accepted for that.

There's a big dose of relief mixed in with the grief I've been feeling and neither of us are having any doubts (yet) about stopping. We even refused an offer of a follow up consultation. 

I am so looking forward to the summer. I know I will have good days and bad days but I believe I will start to feel better. We both have massive work deadlines in May but after that the pressure's off. Planning long weekends and a trip to India too. And because we can't wait that long we've also booked a long weekend in April to Tuscany! Can taste the red wine already  . This year we will be spending our money on holidays not hospitals!

xxx


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## Stella10 (May 23, 2013)

Ciacox   

I'm so sorry this has happened. You will move through this and you have some exciting times ahead. One way or another you are still on the path to being a mum. 

We've been looking into adoption too.... bizarrely I'd looked into it when I was in my 20s. I think I've always wondered whether I'd be able to have my own. The process seems much more joined up now and there has been a real change in culture. People seem to finally be aware that time is important and assuming you're not a psychopath the process should not be unnecessarily delayed once started (in theory).

For now though it's important to heal and your plan to replace hospitals with holidays is a fab one! I love your choice of destinations too - I had 2 weddings ceremonies; 1 in Tuscany and 1 in India!! We go back regularly (Italy every year and India every 2-3). If you need any planning tips then I can bore you for hours!! 

Take care

S xx


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

So sorry Ciacox.  Thinking of you and loving your attitude.  I know there will be more difficult days ahead but I am very confident you will have your family.  Take care


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## PoppyB (Mar 3, 2013)

Hi ladies,

Wondered if I could join you...flyingcat and ciacox we shared 2 of our cycles and really supported me so I really wanted to see how you're both doing.

We're just starting to think about embarking on our thurs cycle and I'm terrified. 

Ciacox I am so sorry your treatment has come to an end...your words and attitude are so strong. I really hope your next journey gives you the family you've dreamt of. 

Xx


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Welcome PoppyB,
Sorry your first 2 cycles didn't work out.  We're all here for you.  
I've just started my 4th cycle having done my 3rd in January.  I find it helps to try something new each cycle so you feel you're moving forward - my 3rd we added steroids as we suspected immune issues, this 4th we're confirmed as having immune issues so we're adding intralipids, plus I've had the endo scratch.
Do you want to tell us more about why you're so scared?
Take care


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Sorry Poppy,
Just seen in your sig about your 1st cycle and miscarriage.  I can't imagine how difficult that must have been.  So sorry


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Hi Guys

thanks for all the messages of support. It means a lot.

PoppyB, I'm so glad you found us. Lots of luck for your next cycle. Do you know roughly when you will start?

Stella - funny about the holiday destinations. We are going to Pisa and Kerala. Have been to India a couple of times before but never to Kerala. And I've never been to Italy so very excited about that. I think it's great that you and yr DH have been discussing adoption. Hopefully your Plan A will work out but it really helped us to get through treatment to know that there was a Plan B we could be excited about. Hope the stims are going well. How are you finding the mega dose?

Chocbunny - I hope AF showed up and you have a date to get started.

AFM - feeling pretty calm and think I'm just allowing things to sink in. One day at a time xxx


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## Stella10 (May 23, 2013)

Hi,

Ciacox - glad you're feeling calmer. Kerala is beautiful. I loved Kochin and the hotels on the beach are a great way to relax. As for Tuscany - amazing wine and food!! We're going to Siena in June  Would love to hear how your holiday plans are going xx

Flying cat - hope your DH is managing with the tabs. It must be weird taking 'nothing' whilst your DH takes the drugs!!! Does this mean you have to pamper him?!   I know that's what my DH would be angling for. 

Poppy B - hope the plans for your next cycle are going well x

Chocbunny - hi  what was your endo scratch like? Hope all going well xx

AFM well I'm on day 8 of megastimms (well at least for me!). My right ovary has 14 follies and my left 2. It's usually my right one that's lazy - weird. The clinic seem happy and apart from intermittent nausea I'm not feeling too bad. DH has ceased attending the clinic with me and I'm surprisingly not annoyed. I guess it becomes routine by the time you hit cycle 3.... he's more concerned about buying a car. Oh well I'm still optimistic  

Enjoy your week ladies xxx


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## PoppyB (Mar 3, 2013)

Hi lovely ladies,

Stella - wow you're doing great on your 'megastimms'...wishing you lots of luck! 

Thank you chocbunny, I think I'm just so fearful of another failure and the idea of needing to think about forgetting our dream of having our own children and just don't feel ready to give up on that yet. But also the fear of all the emotional trauma that a cycle brings...and potential disappointment. But trying my best to keep positive...yet realistic. 

I'm all set to start taking the pill on next AF then short protocol a month later...with an endo scratch on day 21 of the pill...eek! 

Ciacox - your travel plans sound wonderful!! I love love love Italy, it's such an amazing place...and happens to have incredibly yummy good and red wine! Mmm! 

Hope you're all well xx


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Morning all -

Stella - that sounds really good. That was exactly what happened to me on our third cycle. My right ovary which had only ever produced one or two follies suddenly woke up and joined the party, and my left ovary went quite quiet. It was our 'best' cycle (re. number of eggs collected, fertilised, getting to blast, getting a frostie). Fingers crossed that all goes well for you! Do you have an EC date yet?

Poppy - i totally relate to your fear. Hopefully it may feel easier when you get started. Sometimes waiting and worrying and planning is harder because there aren't the day to day milestones to focus on. (who am i kidding? - the day to day milestones are pretty much horrifically stressful too...) Sending you hugs xx 

Flyingcat - ditto what Stella said. My DP would be milking it for everything he had and I would have to put up with it after being so demanding through all my treatment!

Chocbunny - how's things? I'm imagining you are just about to get off the starting blocks on your new cycle? Are you doing long or short protocol.

Girls, I'm wondering if it would be okay to move our thread to the long term chat area? http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=267937.0 I think it would be helpful to me to stay in touch with you all away from the IVF section of the forum. I totally want to hear about all your cycles and will be delighted to hear about your BFPs too but it would be nice to do that on a different thread which applies to all eventualities. I'll look into how to make the move. Any ideas for a title? I was thinking of something like 'Summer dreams', which leaves it open to apply to any of the many sunny futures we might be making for ourselves. And we can discuss holiday plans too!


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## FlyingCat (Jan 23, 2011)

Hello everyone, woops I've forgotten to reply to this thread for ages and Ages!

Ciacox sounds like things may be turning a corner for you - so glad you're beginning to move on from this horrible place. I like the idea of moving out of the world of fertility treatment. I understand completely that that would be a huge releif.

I like the idea of moving the thread out of the IVF section - perhaps PM one of the moderators (Stalyvegas, Donna Marie, others?) and see if they can move the thread or we could just start a new thread over there.

If people fancied taking the leap we could also move into real world and go to a ******** secret group - let me know if anyone is interested in that as an option, I'd be happy to set it up.

Your travel plans sound Ace. Pisa is great fun but a few tips - if you can get out of pisa (maybe grab a car) and see the local towns and villages, they're gorgeous. Luca, which is maybe an hour from pisa is unspoiled and wonderful. Pisa can get a little bogged down in coach parties sometimes... Also with Pisa try and avoid eating near the main tourist sights - locals (eg hotel managers) give great recommendations to avoid the tourist traps - Pisa is one of only two places in Italy I've ever had bad food!


Stella wow you must be a long way into stims now, is EC date set? Hope you're responding nicely. I have everything crossed.

Poppy, glad to hear you're going again with suggestions for a better outcome this time. Again I have everything crossed for you.

AFM, Well DHs Proxeed finally arrived so he's on a full complement of antiBs and supplements - No side effects to milk thus far  in fact apparently the proxeed tastes really nice. Wierd to think this could be fixing at least some of our problems... can't wait to retest but we'll know nothing til at least three months post antiBs so it will be mid June by then.  And then who knows! Mr R has also said he may give DH some hormonal treatmewnt to boost numbers if need be depending on how the sperm looks when we retest... I'm even wondering whether IUI might be an option in future... Gosh its a whole new world but I really hope we could be done with IVF!


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## Stella10 (May 23, 2013)

Hi everyone,

Good idea re: moving to long term chats. I'd love to stay in touch and it's nice to chat about things in addition to follicles, stimms, EC, ET etc. it's amazing how quickly we learn this language .... shame I can't learn French that easily! Summer dreams is a fab name. I love planning my hols!

On the subject if which... I'm with flying cat; car is definitely a good idea. Lucca is lovely. If you have more than a couple of days then I'd recommend heading down to Siena and Montalcino as well - amazing red wines. Looks like flying cat and I will be able plan your entire trip haha!!!

Flying cat it's amazing all the different options that you've been given - fantastic!! The fact that the meds taste ok is such a bonus - shame we all had to go through the jabs   

PoppyB I hope the waiting isn't too stressful and that the pill isn't causing you too many side effects. I'm lucky I don't seem to get many side effects from IVF drugs but the Pill turned me into a junk food fiend....couldn't stay away from the stuff. Massively pointless too as I clearly never needed any contraception! Hindsight.....

Chocbunny - hope you're doing ok xx

AFM EC booked for Tuesday. We're going to check into a hotel the night of EC as a treat . The theory being that it will feel like a holiday. I did explain to DH that once the morphine wears off from EC I'll be in pain. Not sure what part of being prodded is a holiday   but it's a lovely idea and it beats coming home to do the dishes! I'm such a moaner!! 

Have a lovely weekend 

Xxxxx


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Hi All - just a quickie as I'm heading out the door. Stella - I love the hotel plan for EC. It's a great excuse to be spoilt! Will be thinking of you on Tues.

Thanks for all the holiday tips. I am getting very excited. We are only going for three nights so not sure how far out of Pisa we'll get but will def think about hiring a car, if only for a day. 

I'm away for a week and will be offline but when I get back next week I will move the thread.

Sending love to you all xxx


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## FlyingCat (Jan 23, 2011)

Hey there Stella, how did EC go? Hope you're recovering nicely and you have a nice crop of embryos dividing.


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Hello ladies,
Sorry it's been a while since I've posted.  Things have been super stressful with work but I just managed to get everything sewn up late on Tuesday afternoon before my EC yesterday!  Having had 3 before I was surprise to be in so much pain when I came round from the GA, but feeling better now, and so excited to have heard this morning we had 10 eggs fertilise from 11 - our best result ever!
Stella I think you had your EC too?  How are you feeling now?  It's so nice to have ladies with a few more cycles behind them to talk to.  I have struggled to feel part of my cycle buddies thread this time round as, sadly, all the unwavering positivity just isn't where I'm at any more.
Ciacox, I'm so excited for your holiday plans.  I've never been to India but our main home is in the very south of Italy.  I don't know much of the rest of the country at all, but am sure you will have a lovely time  
How is everyone else doing this week?


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## PoppyB (Mar 3, 2013)

Hi Chocbunny,

Fantastic news on your 10 little embies - that's a great fertilisation rate. I hope you're feeling better after a painful EC and that they're growing well?!

I agree it is much nicer chatting to you all...I have been tempted to join the cycle buddies thread again but just don't feel quite so positive as the first timers! 

Stella, I hope all has gone ok for you with EC??

Ciacox - I know you're away but I hope you are having / have had a lovely break.

I'm just waiting on AF to start (hopefully next week) then will start the pill for 21 days; there is something psychologically wrong about taking the pill in a bid to have a baby!! But hey ho...it'll be a reminder that we are starting very soon so get onto the healthy eating / high protein / 'my body is a temple' diet! Maybe a champagne over the weekend to celebrate my birthday next week and say goodbye to alcohol for (hopefully 9 months!) a while!

Happy Friday ladies!

xx


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## Stella10 (May 23, 2013)

Hi everyone,

Hope you're all well. Sorry I haven't been on FF. We had a terrible cycle this time round. Didn't even make it to ET so DH whisked us off to Italy and banned all fertility related discussion! Got back today and it's my birthday so looking forward to lots of pressies which is also making me feel much better  . Making the most of being spoilt. I suspect next week will be very different and my bubble will burst  .

We managed to get 14 eggs on Tuesday so were absolutely delighted but the next day only 2 had fertilised (we did an ICSI/IVF split - 1 fertilised from each group). They were both rubbish and grew really slowly for about 4 days. The embryologist said the egg quality wasn't great so looks like long protocol and mega stimms don't work for me. We've got an appointment with the consultant and embryologist on 11/4/14 so we'll know more then. 

Chocbunny - your news cheered me up no end! I'm so glad things are going well for one of us   hope things go from strength to strength in the next few days   

Poppy B - enjoy your champagne!! Hope AF shows up soon. Can I ask why they're putting you on the pill? I'd find it weird too!!

Flying cat and ciacox - thanks for your thoughts   hope all is well with you both xx

Better go and start opening my pressies!

Lots of love to you all xxxxx


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Oh Stella, I'm so sorry. What an absolute nightmare. You've been in my thoughts a lot. Very impressed with you both for getting straight out of the country for a bit of Italian healing. I hope you get some helpful answers and glad you don't have to wait too long til your consultation. Take your time making any decisions. One day at a time, and today is your birthday so I hope you're being thoroughly spoilt. A bunch of birthday daisies for you:          

Chocbunny - that is good news. Hope your little embies are doing well and you are recovering well and ready to get one or two aboard xxx

PoppyB. Happy birthday to you too!:  . Enjoy your last bit of time before you're back on the treatment wagon!

AFM - I'm doing okay. I'm just back from a week on a silent meditation retreat. Sounds a bit full on I know but it was exactly what I needed. It was so liberating not to have to say anything and it has really helped me come to peace and perspective over everything that's happened. DP suggested a month off any research about adoption etc so that we can give ourselves space to grieve and that has felt right. Still trying take each day as it comes and none of this is easy but I'm feeling positive. One of the things I really want to start doing is finding a way to feel happy for my friends who are pregnant. My best friend is pregnant with her second (found out just when we found out our cycle was over...) and she's on her way round for tea. Really don't want to spend her whole pregnancy feeling miserable about it (as I did with her first pregnancy) so am planning to start with a positive attitude. Wish me luck!

I still want to move the thread and will try and sort that today. Watch this space! xxx


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## PoppyB (Mar 3, 2013)

Stella, happy birthday...I hope you were spoilt with those pressies. I'm so sorry your cycle didn't go well.  What a horrendous time. But  it sounds like your DH whisking you away was a great idea and I'm so glad you're enjoying your birthday today! I hope you manage to get some good answers and helpful plans at your consultation.

Ciacox, I am in true admiration for your wise words,  calm and positive thinking....the silent meditation break sounds  interesting and perfect to gather your thoughts . I hope you managed ok with your friend? 

Stella, in response to your pill query...I think the thought process is that it acts as a mild down regulation to 'rest ' my ovaries before stimming on short protocol. I'm worried because in LP I responded v quickly and I think narrowly avoided OHSS so they changed me to SP  but that cycle I didn't respond well at all and had poor egg quality. So I'm nervous that I'll end up with poor response and poor quality again...but need to trust that they know what they're doing and keep positive. 

Chocbunny - how are your little embies growing? Hope all is well.

Xx


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Hi Ladies

hope you're all doing well.

Chocbunny - have been thinking of you and hoping that you will be bringing this thread such much needed good news. Give us an update when you have a chance.

I managed okay with my friend and mostly felt warm towards her. I even encouraged her to tell me about all her concerns about being pregnant and having a second baby when she has a toddler. Not saying it didn't hurt tho!

I have emailed Caz who moderates the long term chat board and she sent me a very long reply which I've copied below. Basically, the gist of it is that she is happy (I think) to start us a thread if we all agree to the conditions. Slightly more full on than I expected but perhaps they've had difficult experiences in the past. Let me know what you think. It might be easier to just stay here or go to the world of ******** (except there's something about being called ciacox and looking like a bicycle which helps me to feel that I really can say anything to you guys! ).

Hi Caz

I'm just wondering if you could help me start a new long term chat thread? I have some buddies on this thread http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=317110.0. We would like to move from the IVF section to the long term chat section. I was just going to start a thread but can't seem to figure out how to. If you can help, we would like to call it Summer Dreams. Sorry if I'm just being a bit of a dunce!

Ciacox

Hi Ciacox, thanks for your query.

Sorry as you have figured out it isn't possible for members to just start new threads in the long term chat area. The reason being is it all the threads there are ones that originally start elsewhere but were moved there because they moved on from the original topic and there were no newer members joining that thread for support. 
The area was originally only set up to provide a place to cater for historical chat threads (that contained both baby and ttc chatter) that had sprung up all over FF before we restructured the site a couple of years ago and introduced guidelines to restrict the amounts of pregnancy and baby chatter in ttc areas. In short, we wanted to provide a place where people who'd already been happily chatting about that together could continue to do so in a protected environment, whilst we were able to enforce guidelines to support our members still ttc and finding baby chatter difficult. Originally we were going to have the area closed to new threads (so it was just historical ones) but over time we found that threads still moved off topic and there was a need for people to move over there to continue to support everyone in a more general friendship sense. So we don't start threads there but we do still very occasionally move threads over there if they have been chatting a while and it's moved on from the original topic. There's no set timescale for that but in general we'd be talking several months - probably more than 6 or 7, say - before we'd consider people knew each other well enough to consider it appropriate. Again the main reason for that is because the area recognises the unique long term friendships people make in those areas and that those still struggling to conceive, or at the end of their journeys have formed a strong enough bond with those who have been successful to be genuinely OK to hear about their their pregnancies and babies. We need to be sure that all the group really to understand this and support each other and can openly and honestly say when they are finding things difficult without it causing upset so there are not major problems down the line with people falling out with one another etc. The sticky post there sort of explains it: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=267937.0
It's really important to think about the group dynamics and future implications if treatment works for some and not others.

Another things to consider is that everyone who has posted on the thread would be welcome to join. i.e. we could not have a thread and restrict membership only to certain people. In general we would not expect new people to join in, but we would expect anyone who has posted in it to be welcome. In practice it tends to be only the regular chatterers who post once it's moved anyway.

Finally, the name thing; you would need to keep your original name at first, but we could append the Summer Dreams (so long as nobody else has it and I will check) and, eventually as we start new parts we'd drop the first bit. Again, this is just to make it easier for people who are members to find you.

I hope that explains things. I am not personally familiar with your thread and would not like to judge whether you fit the right criteria based on a cursory glance so what I would suggest you do is (with my permission) share the contents of this PM with the other members of the thread. If everyone reads this and agrees that the thread is suitable (in particular pertaining to being honest about feelings around BFPs if still ttc and / or not taking offence if others struggle with this) then I will be happy to take guidance from the thread and move it to the Long Term Chat area. However you need to be aware that if relationships do break down over time and this causes discord, we will take a zero tolerance approach and shut the thread.

Sorry, that was a bit wordy! I just wanted to explain it so you'd understand. Let me know what the group consensus is.

Caz


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Hello ladies,

Well, I'm glad you're here as I feel I can say things to you I would never say on a more newbie thread!  My ET was so painful!  I had asked them for valium as the last ET this consultant did for me, and the endo scratch he did were uncomfortable, but even 2 valium did nothing!  That coupled with the disappointing news we had our worst day 3 > blast conversion ever and DH couldn't be with me for ET left me feeling very emotional and down.
Since then however, I have come to my senses and am focussing on the fact we have 2 blasts on board, I'm on the highest dose of steroids and progesterone my clinic will allow and I've had the scratch and intralipids, so this has got to be the best chance we've ever had of a positive result.
Something else that I wouldn't get into on other threads, but this time round I'll be testing early.  I never have on 3 previous cycles as I believe it just prolongs your misery as nothing is definite til OTD anyway, but given the consultant and I are convinced my 2 blasts started implanting last time, I'm keen to try and get an insight into what is happening during my 2ww.  So I'm having HCG blood tests on mon and weds - 7dp5dt and 9dp5dt - the idea being that if the numbers increase dramatically, we know implantation is at least starting.  I guess if that's the case but I still get a BFN then we likely have to tackle the immunes harder, but my NK results weren't that high, so what I'm on should be enough.
Sorry for going on, but I'm hoping some of you might have some experience or insight into this with all the cycles and reading on this subject we've done between us.  
Stella, I'm so sorry to hear what happened on your cycle.  Well done for taking it so well but please do talk to us if you hit a bad patch.  Hope you had a wonderful birthday following your lovely dose of Italian sun and your plans are coming together for what's next.  Thinking of you hon  
Best wishes to Ciacox, PoppyB and all the other super-strong ladies keeping their heads up and looking forward on this thread


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## PoppyB (Mar 3, 2013)

Chocbunny -  sorry you had a rough time at ET ... Sounds very positive that you are PUPO with two blasts and with all the  intralipids , scratch, progesterone and steroids  Also really interesting that the clinic will monitor HCG levels to check implantation...I am a serial early tester and always feel as torturous as it may be testing early, I would rather know if implantation has tried to happen.  It sounds like a good idea...to get answers for you. 

Good luck for your first blood test tomorrow  x


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Hi lovelies

Chocbunny - Very much hoping that there was good news from your bloods today. And if you didn't, I'm imagining it would still be too early o call it? I think you're right to test early and get all the info that you can. Are you working through the 2ww?

PoppyB - hope things are going okay with you. Are you on the pill now?

Stella - hope the recovery is going okay... We're here if you need to let off steam.

And flyingcat - is your DH done with the antibiotics yet? Bet you're dying to know the outcome. Do you guys ttc 'naturally' these days?

We are just back from a wonderful few days in Pisa. It was absolutely everything we needed. My partner had arranged beautiful flowers and prosecco on ice for our arrival which started things off on a very special note. We mostly just rolled between cafes, restaurants, and ice cream shops but did manage a bit of a proper sight seeing and a day trip to Lucca which was gorgeous. I think I'm doing okay with feeling better but I know I need to be patient. I have had so many dreams that I am pregnant and it's like the reality smacks me in the face again when I wake up. I think there's a part of me that just can't believe this has happened. Another thing that's going on - and I think is linked somehow to what's happened - is that I've become very anxious about my health. This is new for me and I'm not liking it. Somewhere along the way I started worrying about breast cancer (I think because of all the hormones I have taken) and I've half convinced myself that I have pain in one of my breasts. I guess I would usually be able to just dismiss it as I don't really have symptoms but I think perhaps the reason I can't is that - since infertility and all that jazz - I've become hyper aware that unlikely things can happen to me. Anyway, I've made an appointment to see the doctor tomorrow... Seems silly to know that it's health anxiety but still not be able to let it go, my partner doesn't know what to make of me!


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## PoppyB (Mar 3, 2013)

Hi lovely ladies,

Ciacox - your Italian escape sounded amazing...the perfect trip! But you poor thing getting anxious about your health. I hope your doctor was able to reassure you or help to alay your fears.  I wonder whether because you have spent so long carrying all the anxieties, emotion, trauma and intensity of fertility treatment; and not hugely being too concerned about our health in a bid to do whatever it takes to get pregnant, that now that you're moving on and you are almost finding yourself again...I think maybe you are now able to focus on you and your body and your health. But all that emotion has to dissipate and maybe you're subconscious is moving some of that anxiety into something else.  Well that is a fairly airy fairy way of thinking about how the two may be related!! Sorry! 

Chocbunny - I hope the bloods have brought you positive news and you're doing ok...?

Stella - how are you doing? 

Flying cat - how's everything with you? How's the medications going for  DH? Hope you're well.

I'm now on day 7 of taking the glorious pill...although nowhere near the same as buserelin...I did forget that the pill makes me feel fat, bloated and a bit gross!! Eurgh! Or it may be some overindulging over my birthday maybe!! 😳 our plan is for endometrial scratch on Monday 21st then stimms start a few days later...eek. 

Hope you all enjoyed the lovely sunshine today! Xx


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## FlyingCat (Jan 23, 2011)

Oops, its been ages since I've replied - apologies it just seems so hard to find the undisturbed time - during TX its actually easier cos I generally clear my calendar and fill the freezer with microwaveable dinners 

Stella, so sorry it didn't work out that really is so unfair! Well done for the quick recovery strategy. Do you know what your next steps will be yet? Are you having a follow up?

PoppyB I agree very wierd to have to go on the pill but some clinics reckon it helps and I think its a pretty small thing so if it helps... I used to get horribly depressed on the pill years ago - havn't taken it since my early twenties though. Hears wishing you a nice easy cycle followed by successful PG!
(I laughed at your "body is a temple diet"! I'm on one of those at the moment too despite not officially trying 

Ciacox, Wow! I'd kill to go on your retreat - silence and uninterupted me time for a week would be perfect. (though actually, I'm sorry reading that I know you would do so much for my reason for wanting a break - I do feel like a bit of a fraud being here sometimes after being so blessed first time round.)
Glad you liked Luca, it has a special place in my heart, it was my first holiday with DH - we went to Pisa, realised we hated it and saved the holiday by relocating to Luca.
Well done for the positive thinking - I know its so hard but forcing yourself to be positive does in the long run help you to really feel positive. Hope that happens soon. <hugs>

PoppyB not long til stimmms (I always love that stage - feels so good to have some lovely stimm hormones back after DR! (I don't think I'm going to cope well with menopause 

I'm completely fine with the rules for long term chat but to be honest I don't mind either way, I don't even see where this thread is located as I just click on email notifications anyway but perfectly happy to move. My original cycle buddies (/pregnancy buddies/ parenting buddies) are now on ******** and I agree it took time to adjust to real people and people are sometimes not as lovely and accepting when it becomes real world... or possibly now qwe've known each other so long we trust each other enough to have rows! 

Chocbunny go for it with as much positivity or otherwise as you like  I always did early tresting and was open about why and the risks but each to their own  I got a bit fed up of sounding like a school teacher sometimes though... and there's only so many times you can reassure about injections not being too hard to do so I'm really grateful to have somewhere to be too.

Ciacox - on your health worries, I'm glad you're going to your GPO, hopefully he/she has reassured you. Always always take such concerns seriously though - I never want anyone in the position my mum was in so don't take risks. Especially when its so easy to be sure you're clear!

AFM... (wow what a post so far!)

Well DH has finished his antiBs and we now need to continue the antioxidants and wait another three months before we retest his sperm.

Of course in the meantime we continue to TTC naturally but its actually really nice not putting pressure on myself - its the first time in years that I've let myself drink alcohol, coffee, take ibuprofen and other medications on the no no list in years!

That said I am trying to use the time to get really fit and healthy - my personal trainer who helped me get in shape for my first tx last year (lost 12kgs in 8 weeks) has gone online with a new product and I've just done the first ten week beta test (well half of it as I got sick repeatedly). And I managed to shift all the weight I put on during TX. Now doing it again to actually get properly fit. If anyone is interested by the way I'm one of the testimonials www.bodyproject.com/landing (Cassy).

Ho hum, just means when we next go again I can feel I've done everything I can to help - gosh I was so naive first time round! (wish I still was  )


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Hello ladies,
Sorry for holding out on you but wanted to be 100% sure before sharing: we're pregnant!  My blood test results this week were really strong.  The consultant's saying he thinks it will be twins!
We are so thrilled.  So giddy.  It was my toughest cycle both and I didn't do every little thing right (daily pint of milk, brazil nuts, no stress, etc) like I have my other cycles but I'm a big believer that the NK cells and intralipids treatment were the key elements for us.
After 4 cycles I feel like we really earned this and I just wanted to share with you so that it may hopefully give you some hope.  We all know the success stats get worse and worse as the number of cycles continues but so long as you are tweaking elements of your protocol then each successive cycle might hit on the crucial element for you and then get you the right result.  
Hope you're all doing ok.  Thank you for supporting me on this road.
Hugs to you all at your various stages


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## PoppyB (Mar 3, 2013)

Oh chocbunny, this is the most fantastic news!! Have been watching and waiting and thinking of you hoping for a good result...so so happy for you.  Wishing you a happy and healthy 8 months! Do you have a scan date yet?? Xx


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Hi All

Chocbunny - that is such wonderful news! I'm so pleased for you. Glad that you have a scan date very soon. Very excited to hear if there are one or two in there. Hope you're feeling okay.

Flyingcat - I watched the personal testimony and now feel like I've met you! The programme sounds amazing. I've been thinking of taking on a physical challenge to celebrate the return of my body from the clasps of IVF. I run (jog!) and have done a few 10ks in the past but am thinking it may be time for a half marathon. Glad all is going well with you guys. The wait for news re the SA must be tough but as you said it gives you a bit of pressure free time before you make your next decision.

PoppyB - not long now till things kick up a gear! Hope you're feeling okay xxx

Stella - I'm guessing you're taking some time out of all this but if you're still reading just wanted to say hi and that I'm thinking of you. xxx

Thanks for your supportive comments about my breast panic. I was lucky enough to see a wonderful GP who listened to my concerns, checked my breasts (nothing that she could find) and then sat me down and said, 'Now, how are you?' At which point I burst into tears! It was so lovely to have to spill out everything to her and not to have to make any pretense at being brave. Felt a lot better afterwards. She has referred me to the breast clinic for a check, although she said she'd be amazed if they found anything.

Other than that, we have reached the end of our self imposed embargo on adoption research and discussion and we are gradually turning our minds to that. I'm resistant to join adoption threads etc quite yet because I know that once I get started I will become a bit obsessive and I don't think I'm ready for the intensity yet. So just starting with the occasional peek!


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## Hannah10 (Aug 18, 2011)

Hi ladies, 

Would it be ok if I joined your thread - I read ye are thinking of moving but does this mean that new members can join? I'm on the 2ww of our 5th cycle and am looking for support from those who have been 'through the mill' if you know what I mean lol

Chocobunny - my heart kept when I read your news. We have changed so much this cycle and I had the endo starch, steroids and intriplids which I nicer had before so I'm so hoping thati get the same outcome. My NK cells were slightly high at 14 (consultant said normal is 12). What are you? Will you contibe on intriplids during preganacy? 

Hope you other ladies are well? 

Love Hannah


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## Hannah10 (Aug 18, 2011)

Sorry spellcheck was terrible on that post


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Thank you everyone for your congratulations.  I don't want to go on too much but like all of us probably have, I was starting to wonder if it would ever happen for us and it has so I hope it helps in some small way to give you fight to keep going down whatever path you're on.
Hi Hannah, welcome.  My personal opinion is that these elements you have added into this most recent cycle are definitely enough to make the difference to the result so keep as positive as you can.  From memory I think my NK cells were in the low 20s - not crazy high but high enough to clearly see that they could be causing real problems.  I really hope you get good news soon


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## FlyingCat (Jan 23, 2011)

Aaah Chocbunny - I don't know how I missed your post! Congratulations! such amazing news - truly well earned and here's to a long healthy pregnancy and a beautiful baby!


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## rtsaintly (Oct 19, 2007)

Chocbunny - I've been keeping my eye out for news!!!yay!!

Rachel xxxx


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Thank you FlyingCat - we are so super thrilled    Hope you're enjoying this down time before treatment ramps up again.
Rtsaintly, hello my old ET buddy!  How are you?  You must be past 12 weeks now are you?  At what stage did you find out it was twins?  My HCG tripled in 2 days so they think I've got two on board too


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## rtsaintly (Oct 19, 2007)

Chocbunny - I'm going to keep my fingers crossed all day for you, that the HGc keeps going like that! I'm 14 weeks and 5 days (according to the internet calculator!), but one twin is measuring slightly bigger (15weeks) and one smaller (14 weeks and 3 days). We found out at the first scan at 6 weeks, but I had a feeling from my hgc and because I felt so weird! I'm only just starting to relax a tiny bit. I wasn't prepared for how much scarier it is with two.

Keep us updated - are you on one of the due date threads yet?

Rachel xxxxx


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## Hannah10 (Aug 18, 2011)

Hi ladies 

I found out on say that it was a bfn for us again. Still trying to come to terms with this news. Very difficult. I have one frostie so at least 'something' has come out of this. 

I suppose decision is now whether we try donor eggs next or use frostie. My DH thinks we should try de first as we need to sort implantation issues out.  As we only have the 1 frostie I want o be sure we give it best chance possible. So difficult.


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Hi Hannah,
I'm so sorry to read your news.  I know there's nothing we can say to make it better but think it's good you are looking forward to next steps.  Our most recent cycle followed straight on from our 3rd failed one (i.e. started injecting as soon as AF showed the month after the BFN) and it definitely helped knowing we had that plan.  What are your clinic saying?  I would definitely push to speak to someone who really knows about the immunes side of things to figure out if this is an immunes issue or something else.  Even if the immunes were sorted it could have failed due to an embryo issue, in which case DE wouldn't necessarily be the obvious choice as the frostie could be fine if put into the same environment.
Take care


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Hi Lovelies

sorry I've been away for ages.

Hannah - I was very sad to read your news. This process can be cruel. Hope you're doing okay. It takes time... sending you hugs.

Chocbunny - glad to see from your signature that things are going well. Lots of positive vibes coming your way. I imagine it's a pretty anxious (as well as exciting) time xxx

Poppy - what news? You're on the stims now I guess? Hope all going well. Keep us updated. Very much hoping you will bring us some more good news soon.

Stella - not sure if you're still reading but wanted to say hi. Have been thinking of you. Was wondering how you and your husband are getting on re deciding on the next move? x

Flyingcat - only a few more weeks til your husband has his analysis right? Keeping everything crossed that it will be good news. How are you getting on with the wait? (Probably fine til people like me start asking you about it  )

AFM - things are okay. Still feeling pretty flat and trying to be patient. It's only 6 weeks since the door to having a baby was finally closed. Although we are still on for the adoption plan, neither of us feel nearly as excited about it as we did when it was Plan B. I don't think that's a bad thing. I guess we just need to take our time to get over everything that's happened and to come to terms with what we have lost. Adoption will be wonderful for us but just not yet. I thought the enforced 6 month wait post fertility treatment would be hard but actually I'm so grateful for it and think we may even need longer. In the meantime we've made a huge decision to move out of London to the Northwest. A little bit terrified but also excited (we might be able to afford to live somewhere bigger than a cardboard box!). The decision to move is not really about the fertility treatment and failure, but it certainly does feel good to be making such a change and to feel like this will be a fresh start. 

Would love to hear from you all! xxx


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## PoppyB (Mar 3, 2013)

Hi ciacox,

So lovely to hear from you...you sound like you are moving through the grieving process so level headed and wisely; it sounds like you're dealing with a tough time but with a light at the end of the tunnel very much in sight. The big relocation sounds like a big change and adventure too!! A fresh start might be just what you need to help that healing process too. Where abouts are you moving to up north? 

Hannah - I am so sorry to hear your news. I hope you have had chance to get some answers from your clinic and are able to look forward either to a FET with your frostie or towards DE... x

chocbunny - good luck for your scan...I think it's tomorrow??

AFM - I'm on day 3 of stimms and starting to feel a little bloated and something going on! Trying to protein up as much as possible and drink tons of water and milk!! Come on eggs...we need good quality embryos this time please!!

Hope you're all well xx


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Hello ladies,
Thank you for your thoughts and well wishes.  I had a bit of a scare so we moved the scan forward to Monday of this week when we were 6 + 5 and are thrilled to have seen a heartbeat and on track development.
It means so much to have your support.  Thank you and big hugs to you all at your whatever stage you're at.


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## Mel2304 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hey ladies 

i havent been on the site for  about three months as when our 2nd cycle failed in February, i had to take a complete step back back from all things to do with ivf, babies etc.

It has been such a refeshing few months and my dh and i have a lot of things planned in the summer includuing a holiday in June and we are enjoying time together.

we have our review consultation yesterday and we can havve a third nhs funded cycle wghich should make me really happy but going through the last two cycles with the consultant only made us feel down as all the words used were quite negative is low number of eggs, poor quality embryos etc.

We have to now decide if and when want to go through another cycle.  6 months would be august (starting dr in july) but we had though septembr as it menat we could enjoy the summer, however, we are also thinking do we want to put ourselves through this again.

my question is i suppose is, is this a normal way to feel? did anyone else question a third cycle?

i have not had a chance to read back through all the posts and only have a short lunvh break but any thoughts would be appreciated 

xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Hannah10 (Aug 18, 2011)

Mel2304 - hello there! I've just gone through my 5th cycle. The feelings you have are totally normal in my opinion. I don't think it matters how many times you've gone through ivf/treatment it's more about are you ready to do another. I think it's a good idea yo tale time out and prioritise your relationship because one thing I know is that he more failed cycles you do the harder it is as a couple to deal with. I think it's also important to 'get off the merry go round' as I call it (whereby you keep doing the same ivf treatment plan and getting the same result).  Something has to change in order o get a diff outcome  How is doc planning on dealing with low egg numbers and quality?  Hope this helps xx 

Chocbunny- glad your scan is going well. Enjoy these days pet, I give anything to be in your position xx 

Poppy- thanks for your kind words. I think we are going to try with frostie in aug. glad you've started stimming, I ate lots of protein last cycle and got my best ever number and quality of eggs xx 

Caicox- wow honey a lot of change in your life. I hope the new move is the start of a new ad happier life. I can understand how you feel. I can imagine you both are 'looking forward' to adoption but also allow yourselves time to grieve for your own biological children. I think that's healthy. I kinda feel similar thoughts with the concept of donor eggs however in the end I just want a family...

AFM- I'm finding these days tough. I have an emptiness inside my heart and mind. Keep thinking that I miss the twins so much even though they were only at blastocyst stages and I never got to say the words I'm pregnant. I know this will pass but just finding it tough at the moment xx


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## Mel2304 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hannah thank you so much for your reply! I really appreciate it. I feel in such turmoil at the moment but I suppose i dont have to make any decisions right now so will just continue enjoying my life as it is. We have a holiday in June and I think after we get back from there we will make a decsision  The cosnultant said there isnt anything thye can do to improve quality.  thye have taken AMH test again and will check the resaults to see if the plan needs to be changed but as it stands it will b the long protocol again.  i asked about the scratch and althohg he agrees to try this as it will do no harm, i should not get my hopes up  as chances only increase will goo quality embryos.

I hope everyone is well and i am going to try and read back all ther posts xxxx


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## PoppyB (Mar 3, 2013)

Hi everyone,

Mel...I'm sorry you find yourself in such a difficult place. My situation is very similar to yours (see my signature). I know after my MMC I just wanted to throw myself into another cycle thinking if it worked once it would surely work again...and I fell really hard when it failed. I felt so low and took a time to start to feel vaguely normal again. Not sure I know what my normal happy self is pre infertility!! But i definitely felt that I needed time out from it all for a while. As we're only funded one cycle...I'm self funded now so we explored different clinic opinions before taking our next steps. Our issues have always been poor fertilisation and poor embryo quality...I asked my initial clinic if I could improve quality of my eggs of which I was told no. 

I did a bit of my own research and yes there isn't a lot of clinical evidence of sure fire ways to improve it but I tried supplements of royal jelly, coq10, acai berrys for 3 months. I read a little about DHEA which might be worth discussing with your doctor too?? Not sure if it has made a difference yet but will let you know in the next few weeks! We went to another clinic who told us that the protocol, drugs and hormone monitoring can certainly affect quality. They also said inherently i could just have poor eggs. AMH and age also affect them. I'm not sure of your history but that's what I have been told. Had I not gone to a different clinic I wouldn't know any of it! I'm hoping given my age and AMH being high but having PCO (metformin to help quality)...that I might be able to influence quality better. 

Just thought I'd add that...not sure if seeking another opinion is anything you'd feel up to doing. I felt much better feeling that changes were being made to my treatment plan to try to help. 

In terms of feeling ready, it sounds like a fun summer enjoying yourselves will allow you time to decide what you  want to do next. I don't personally feel my 'readiness' or eagerness to start again really kicked in but I know I need to cycle to ultimately achieve our dream. 

Hope that's vaguely helpful to you,  sorry for my rambling  on! 

Hope you're all doing ok xx


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## Mel2304 (Nov 5, 2012)

thanks Poppy   it is hard isnt it?  I tried royal jelly, coq10 etc last cycle and i think i ended up with better eggs but poor embryos.  We were originally referred du to the male factor but i am not starting to think its a bit of both of us!!

I am awaiting the AMH results to come back to see if it has changed anything so i thikn a that point we will decide when to proceed. You are right the drive and enthusiasm may never come back but as we have this third chance we should really take it.

i am so grateful for your response and wish you all the luck in the world 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Hi there,
I wonder if my story might help give you other avenues to try?  My first 2 cycles were both long protocol with a change of drugs which, when the 2nd cycle had a really low number of eggs from the same number of follicles as my first cycle, meant we knew I was better with gonal f, as used on my 1st.  For my 3rd cycle (after a year off which helped a lot) we switched to a shorter protocol (I think they called antagonist??) still using the same drugs as my first, better cycle, and got 2 fantastic quality blasts - better than on either of the first 2 cycles - but still no BFP.  My 4th cycle (back to back after the 3rd) we followed the exact same protocol as on 3rd and were really disappointed to have only 2 make it to day 5 (one blast and one early blast transferred) out of I think 7+ that were grade 1 on day 3, but those 2 went on to implant and we're now 7 weeks pregnant with one healthy one on board.
My understanding was that different drugs and protocols work for different people and its finding the right combination that will hopefully unlock getting the best quality embryos you can, and that's why the first 2 cycles are so often seen as info-gathering.  
Also for us, I feel the endo scratch and intralipids made all the difference as that was the significant change between 3rd and 4th cycles.  I think our 3rd cycle would have worked given the quality of those blasts, had I had the scratch and intralipids that time.
Obviously we're all different and I certainly don't have all the answers, but I hope this may perhaps give you different ideas to bring up with your clinics as I'm aware some are far more likely than others to encourage changing things up cycle to cycle.  
And above all, if you can keep going, please do.  You never know which cycle might give you your miracle.


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## Mel2304 (Nov 5, 2012)

thanks Chocbunny, that gives me more to think about.  When I call back to get my rest results, i will ask about the other drugs  You are right its getting that right combination of things! I hope the scratch makes a difference for us but unless we have better qualioty embryos ot probably wont make a difference.

Congrats to you and good luck! 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Stella10 (May 23, 2013)

Hi everyone,

Sorry I've been away so long.

Congratulations chocbunny - that's wonderful news. I hope your pregnancy goes from strength to strength  

Ciacox - thank you for your kind thoughts and great choice on the Northwest - it's fab up here! You are only 6 weeks out and you have plenty of time to adopt and start your family. Take care xx

AFM well things went from bad to worse. After we failed to make it to egg transfer DH went off the rails  .  I found out a few weeks ago that he'd raided our savings and spent over £7500 on alcohol, cocaine, going out and presents for friends and family. I had no idea until I saw some texts on his phone. He broke down in tears and has kept apologising. He's never done anything like this before in the 10 years we've been together. I'm at a bit of a loss what to do. Needless to say, no more IVF for us. We have a rocky road ahead  . I guess it could have been worse and for that I'm grateful. We're going to focus on why this has happened and if we have a marriage worth working for.

I wish you all the very best. Xxxx


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## PoppyB (Mar 3, 2013)

Oh Stella, I'm so sorry you really have been through a tough time with  DH. Men do seem to bottle emotions and do ridiculous things to release them. I'm glad you have found the strength to work through things and stay to try to sort what you can. 

I'm  just sorry things are so difficult at the moment and haven't worked out the way you planned. I hope that whatever your next steps are, that you are able to find much deserved happiness. 

Please keep in touch if you need friendly ears to listen and support you. 

Sending much love xx


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Oh Stella, I'm so sorry. What a total nightmare. I'm so glad that you have found out and that things have come to a head. Hoping this will be the beginning of getting things back on track for you guys. I feel angry with infertility on your behalf. It's not just the not having a baby, it's all the other ways that it hurts us and our relationships. It sounds like you're right to put IVF aside right now and focus on your marriage. I'm really hoping that this may eventually deepen things in a positive way for you guys. You've learnt things about your husband which are new and, if you can overcome what's happened, this could make you closer. Sorry if that sounds like I'm grappling for a silver lining. In this moment this must just be really ****ty for you. I'm sending you massive love and hugs. And glad to hear I have a buddy up North!

Poppy - how are things. 2ww time?


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## PoppyB (Mar 3, 2013)

Hi guys,

Not sure if anyone is still on this thread at the moment...

flyingcat - any progress with you? not sure if your DH has been back for a retest with the urologist yet?

chocbunny - how is everything progressing with your pregnancy? hope all is well.

mel  and Hannah - hope you are both enjoying the sunshine and life before thinking about new cycles?

Stella - I hope you are doing ok.

ciacox - hows things going with your plans to move up north? any summer holiday plans??

sorry if I've missed anyone...

AFM - I have indeed started the 2ww today! We've had our best cycle so far with 17 eggs, 15 mature and 12 fertilised. Our clinic froze 4 at day 1 (new to us!) and 8 embryos continued...we got 3 at blast today and a few behind so will be watched a little longer. So we had a grade 4bb blast and a slightly weaker 3bc transferred today with the others not freezable. All in all, pretty happy so far. I always long to get perfect freezable blasts and despite getting 4 perfect day 3 (8 cells) I really thought I might get that this time. But I need to stop being greedy and appreciate how far we've got so far with this new clinic. Just hope they are healthy little growers and stay sticky!! 2 ww madness begins! xx


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Hi PoppyB,
Yes, I'm still here!
Congratulations on a great cycle.  Like you, I've had no problem getting grade 1 8 cells on day 3 but never anything to freeze, so I can understand your feelings, but you are right to focus on being excited to have 2 good blasts on board   2ww madness indeed!  When's your OTD?  Are you an early tester?  Hope you have lots planned to keep you occupied!
Stella - I was so shocked to read your post.  I just didn't know what to say and still can't imagine what you're going through.  Please stop by when you have time and let us know how you're getting on.  We're all here for you and I'd imagine some people might find it difficult to talk to their immediate circle about this kind of thing, so feel free to use us as your sounding board safe in the anonymity of FF.  So sorry you have to go through this but hopefully he is sorry and recognises he has a problem and  you will find a way forward with a greater understanding of each other.   
AFM, 9+1 today.  Have had 2 scans (one at EPU after early bleed which turned out to be miscarriage of one of our twins) and one at IVF clinic where everything was shown to be on track for 2nd little one.  Have first midwife's appointment on Monday then a 12 week scan on 2nd June.  Really tempted to have another scan the start of next week as it'll be 2 weeks since the last and we are travelling to see a lot of family around our 11 week stage and want to share our good news in person, but want reassurance that everything is fine before doing so.  Does that seem OTT when I haven't had any more bleeding or reason to believe there's a problem?
Sorry, I feel a bit insensitive talking about my pregnancy on here.  I don't know if it's encouraging to hear of a 4th cycle success?  Just let me know if I should button it!! 
Best wishes to you all


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## PoppyB (Mar 3, 2013)

Hi chocbunny,

So pleased things are going smoothly for you now...and I absolutely do want to hear how you're doing; you bring us hope!! I so hope I am lucky enough to be third time lucky...but 4th time lucky would be great too!!

I was keen to have another scan between my clinic scan at 7w and the 12w scan - unfortunately I spotted and went to EPU to find I had MMC at 8w before I got the chance to go to a private scan at 9w. If I'm lucky enough again I would definitely have another scan before 12w but that's because I will be neurotic!! I think if you want to tell family, it'll be nice reassurance that things are ok when you announce. 

xx


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## chocbunny (Jan 6, 2012)

Aw PoppyB thank you so much, that's exactly how I feel.  I've just booked in for a scan at 10 weeks and we fly to see family the same day so fingers crossed there's nothing to worry about or I'll be in pieces!  The stats now that I've had a heartbeat at 8 weeks are 98% apparently, but having lost one twin already and seen so many sad stories on FF of ladies who have had late losses, even just since I've been pregnant, I'm wary of feeling complacent.  But also trying hard not to be neurotic!!  
It's so nice of you to say I give you hope.  That's my intention.  When I was cycling my 3rd and 4th times I was desperate to read stories of ladies who'd taken more than the usual 2 cycles to get their BFP, hence why I've loved this thread, but I know we're all different, and hearing me deliberate over whether to have an extra scan might seem insensitive to some on here.  I don't mean to be, just sharing the ongoing process as I see it.  I'll pootle off without taking offence if anyone wants to suggest I don't really belong on here any more...


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## Mel2304 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hey ladies!!

Poppy - how are you getting on in the 2WW?

ChocBuny - Youre nor beinf insensitive, it is great to hear stories of BFP after 2 attempts!! We are awaiting our third attempt and in that do we, dont we stage!! we have discussed it an i think we are going to go ahead in september. I am jsut waiting the hospital calling back with my AMH results to see what treatment plan I will have.  Going to get booked for the scratch procedure as well.

hope everyone has a lovely day! 

xxxxxx


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## PoppyB (Mar 3, 2013)

Hi everyone,

Not sure if anyone is still on here but just to update you...we had a big fat fail on OTD. I had suspected a fail as I had no symptoms and was early testing. Feel completely lost and broken...this was our best cycle, almost textbook, they even threw in intralipids and steroids just in case I had immune issues so we covered every option. We transferred 2 good blasts and still we failed. I just don't know where we go from here. I really believed this would work for us now, it worked first time and only failed because of the 1 in 200million chance that our blast split into triplets. So thought we would get there again fairly soon but this has completely thrown me. We did everything right and couldn't have done more to give this our best shot and I failed. I'm sure we'll be told that we were "just unlucky" but I'm kind of tired of hearing those words...why us?? Why are we so unlucky?!! 

There seem to be so many people on FF who have a situation much worse (diagnosis) than us and yet get a BFP straight away, and that I don't understand either. 

Sorry for such a negative post, I have so many "why us" questions in my head, and feel so angry that we're being dealt so much bad luck. 

Any ideas how we keep going and move forwards?! 

Hope you're all well xx


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## ciacox (May 31, 2013)

Oh Poppy, I'm so sorry to hear your news. I too was really hopeful for you. Like you, I'd reasoned that your first BFP (although it ended so painfully) was a good sign and I really felt things should work. I'm not surprised you feel angry and fed up. You will find a way to move on from this but take your time, and allow yourself room to be as angry and sad as you can. Sending you lots of love and hugs xxxx

Hope everyone else is doing okay. 

Not much news from me. I guess I'm gradually sinking into the new identity of being someone who 'can't have children'. I remember when I was a kid and hearing that whispered about various couples we knew: 'they can't have kids, you know...' And now I'm one of those people. I know that the identity of being an adoptive parent will one day eclipse this (assuming we are approved for adoption) but I'm still finding it hard to get as excited about that as I once was. Just trying to be patient and have faith that we will be excited about it again soon.

Sending you all love xxxx


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