# Single and practical issues



## AnotherOne? (Nov 26, 2018)

After years of trying (personal meetings with anonymous donors), I managed to get pregnant with my DS who is a toddler now. I would love to get a second child but I cannot proceed like before (timing issues, age issues). So I suppose that I should contact a clinic which is good with working with OE for women over 40 and wonder if anyone could recommend me what to do?

I guess it would be best to try to get only one or two eggs at a time because I think the female body chooses the best egg itself anyway and I have to assume that now I would have one or two usable eggs per cycle at most? And if I manage to get a few blastocysts I would rather try to have one by one implanted in a cycle without EC.

That would mean that I would have to visit a clinic repeatedly which might become problematic since I have a job and need to take care of my son, and also travel and accomodation costs would have to be added to the treatment costs.

It seems that going to Bratislava would be perfect for me (I am living in Vienna and day trips would be possible and no booking to the train would be necessary) – but I am single. It seems that there are rather good results in the UK for „older women“ but I don‘t know how I could manage the timing and the travelling.

How much time / how many days would I need to spend at a clinic if I tried natural IVF / mild IVF / normal IVF? Which countries / clinics would you recommend me?


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## asinglerose (Oct 18, 2018)

Hi there,

From Vienna, the best options would be Czech Republic and Slovakia but both won't treat single women, unfortunately. So in terms of logistics, there isn't really an easy way forward. You also have to think about what you and aren't open to in terms of sperm donor anonymity. If you need to use non-anonymous sperm then the only real option outside of the UK is Denmark. If you are fine using anonymous sperm then you can indeed go to Cyprus. As far as I have researched, it seemed a lot of clinics are able to work it out so that you just travel when you're ready to retrieve eggs so perhaps a stay of a week if you're transferring right away (that includes 3-5 days of waiting for the embryo to develop to blastocyst stage). 

Hope that helps!


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## lechatgris (Oct 9, 2015)

asinglerose said:


> If you are fine using anonymous sperm then you can indeed go to Cyprus.


It depends on the clinic in Cyprus. Some let your order non-anonymous sperm from the Danish Cryobank, if you reside abroad in a country which allows it (and some don't seem to even check that): 
http://pedieosivf.com.cy/treatment/sperm-donation/
Plus, look under "Embryo Donation Package" here: https://cyprusivfcentre.com/ivf-holiday-packages/


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## asinglerose (Oct 18, 2018)

Thanks, lechatgris! It's such a weird thing that it varies by clinic. I'll certainly reach out and see what their costs are.  Doesn't hurt to get full info.


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## lechatgris (Oct 9, 2015)

asinglerose said:


> Thanks, lechatgris! It's such a weird thing that it varies by clinic. I'll certainly reach out and see what their costs are. Doesn't hurt to get full info.


I think technically, it is supposed to be for medical reasons, but a few of them state that they will allow it for people who need genetic testing anyway for advanced maternal age, or if their home country allows it.


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## rainbows44 (Oct 12, 2018)

Hello everyone, I'm new here, from Australia. If you are over 40 and you try IVF a few times (with your own eggs) and it doesn't work, I have heard there are new treatments available.

1) using human growth hormone taken from your blood platelets (like the kardashians use on their faces) and injected into the ovary. It's experimental. Apparently it improves your homone levels but there is no scientific evidence it can help you generate more eggs. This is being done in Sydney and likely other places, too. It costs about $5000 in Sydney ($10,000 if you factor in anaesthetist fees, hospital fees)

2) using autologous stem cells from bone marrow injected into your ovarian artery. This is experimental also and being done in Spain. Also there is not really any evidence that you can grow new eggs. The one experiment by a Japanese scientist that said you could has never been repeated. Also there is a risk of tumour formation elsewhere as the blood can carry the cells elsewhere in the body.

3) A New York fertility specialist has said on YouTube that he never had success in women over 44 until he started taking the eggs out earlier. He started taking them out at 16 microns instead of 18 to 20 microns as everyone else does. He suddenly got some success in women over 44 as he found the older ovaries had become 'hostile environments' for the eggs. So taking the eggs out early meant more of them could make successful embryos.

Myself, I am 44 turning 45 in March. I will be going for my first cycle with a known donor in late January. I don't want to do donor eggs though I respect others if that is their choice. For me that is not an option I don't want that.

Good luck.


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## asinglerose (Oct 18, 2018)

Good luck rainbows44! Very interesting options that I had certainly never heard of before. It's important to do what brings you the greatest comfort of course. Are you going to try any of these treatments yourself?


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## estella (Nov 1, 2009)

Hi Anotherone, have you looked into Reprofit in Brno. They did used to treat single women and you can choose the donor yourself using a danish cryobank etc. 
Rainbows44. great options, I would try all if I had the cash... now looking at DE even though I was convinced it wasnt for me before...


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## asinglerose (Oct 18, 2018)

I think those were the good old days Estella. I was actually really hopeful about the Czech Republic last year as they were holding a vote that could have extended treatment to singles but they upheld the ban, unfortunately. Of course, I can't speak specifically of Reprofit though, maybe they have a workaround but as the law stands, singles can't legally be treated in the Czech Republic. I'd be the happiest person to be proved wrong though.


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## lechatgris (Oct 9, 2015)

rainbows44 said:


> I have heard there are new treatments available.


There is also a new technique by which they inject the mitochondria of young women's eggs into older women's eggs, thereby "rejuvenating" the older eggs with cytoplasmic material in which to grow (some people are calling this "three parent babies" since technically three people's genetic material are combined, but the egg itself is still the recipient, so I don't see it that way at all.) In a few countries you can have this technique done:

https://www.lowcostivf.net/latest-news-from-north-cyprus-ivf-center/cytoplasmic-tandem-cycle-your-ivf-chances-just-increased
http://www.fertimed.cz/en/infertility-cytoplasmic-transfer/

Incidentally, Rainbows44, can you tell me where you can use a known egg donor or how you plan to carry this out? I have a young woman who wants to donate her eggs to me, and I wish to use non-anonymous sperm from the Danish Cryobank, but I am not sure how to coordinate this as a single person who is now too old for IVF in the country where I live.


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## AnotherOne? (Nov 26, 2018)

Thank you for your replies.

I rather expect donor anonymity because I think it might be harder for a child to see the real family of the sperm donor and to have to understand that s/he will never be part of it – especially if s/he does not have another father – rather than never knowing who he was. It might be easier for them if it is always clear that their only family are my family and the people they and / or I regard as family.

The more important question about the place / clinic is how they handle age related problems and whether they are interested to increase their success with OE IVF and deal with all those problems instead of recommending easy success with DE. The problem is especially that my family would make a difference – and that is the family they have.

@rainbow44: Regarding taking out embryos early – recently my cycle has shortened to 25/26 days but I am rather sure that the FIRST part of my cycle has shortened and not the second part which is usually said because all signs of fertility are there on day 10-12 and not 13-14 as earlier. So, maybe waiting till day 14 could be too long.

@estella: Do you know anybody who was at Reprofit in Brno?


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## rainbows44 (Oct 12, 2018)

hello everyone 

ASINGLEROSE: Hello  A Single Rose, beautiful name, beautiful flower!  I am planning to just go straight IVF first since i've never tried, and my hormones are good so first try that for a year.

If that doesn't work in a year, and I'm then 45 nearly 46, then I would first try the platelet human growth hormone to rejuvenate the ovaries.

I'd try that first because the risk of tumours elsewhere seems less to me than the autologous stem cells which actually has been found to carry stem cells to other areas (eg; the brain) and grow tumours. A bad risk i think, something i don't want to dabble with until there is no other option. Also I only know of it being offered in Spain (though likely it is elsewhere too)

The fertility expert in Spain doing the bone marrow stem cell was: Antonio Pellicer

The human growth hormone treatment is offered in Australia where I am for about $10k (all up). Therefore no travel required. So I am willing to try this one although it doesn't deal with stem cells at all just stimulates the healing function to rejuvenate the ovary (it can't create new eggs). I will only try this if IVF fails over the next 12 months. I start IVF in January.

I will try ordinary IVF first though for a year first as I have no known issues other than age and lack of a partner. So first try the known method as both these other things are experimental, expensive, invasive and carry risks.

I am seeing an IVF clinic in Australia that specifically caters to women over 40.

ESTELLA: Hello there, beautiful name of the stars! if you are considering donor eggs, maybe you could ask your IVF clinic to try just one more time and take the eggs at 16 microns instead of 18-20? that's what the New York doctor said on Youtube worked... stopped the older, hostile ovaries cooking the eggs. 

The doctor was: Centre for Human Reproduction Dr Gleicher.

LECHATGRIS: Hello there, lovely lady! I am not using a donor egg. I support everyone if they are there in their journey but for me it's not an option. The clinic I am going to offers it, so it is widely available in Australia. Yes they treat single people here, too no problem with that.

In Australia the sperm and eggs you can choose from are mostly Australian - very difficult to get from Europe. Only one sperm bank here I knew of did that, the Canberra branch of IVF Australia but they have stopped now. There are special rules that have to be agreed to by both countries i think and it's hard to import legislatively. You AND your donor can come here though and she can donate here, for you, specifically.

That's what my beautiful sperm donor is doing.


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## rainbows44 (Oct 12, 2018)

Hello there AnotherOne -- sorry i missed you

That is interesting about your cycle shortening. What does this mean in terms of fertility? does it mean something if the pre-ovulation time shortens versus the days-past-ovulation part?

Vis the taking the eggs out at follicle 16 microns -- they just look at the size of the follicles and extract the egg if the follicle is 16 micron as opposed to waiting until it grows to 18 microns. They just get a few eggs that have been in there less time. I'm not sure if it matters about the days in the cycle as in IVF they inject you daily with drugs anyway to standardise when they harvest (as i understand it)

good luck everyone!


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## asinglerose (Oct 18, 2018)

Wow rainbows44, I am absolutely rooting for you, it's quite clear that you've put a lot of thought and research into all this and have certainly planned appropriately  Wouldn't it be a blast if it just worked out the first time and you didn't need to do anything else? Fingers crossed.


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## rainbows44 (Oct 12, 2018)

Thanks Single Rose

How lovely of you to write back!!

It would be so great if it worked the first time but I know i've only got 2% chance statistically speaking so I expect to try for a full 12 months then pump those ovaries with PRP. I'm in it for the long haul. Definitely want to use my own eggs although I totally support other people who choose to use donor eggs, it's just not for me.


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## miamiamo (Aug 9, 2015)

I can't help with personal experiences, but I know that Poland does not treat singles. Here is the list of clinics that offer IVF for single ladies (I do not know how often they update it) https://www.eggdonationfriends.com/treatment/ivf-for-single-woman/ Hope this helps xx


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