# Is it all just down to luck?



## Argybargy (Mar 18, 2015)

Hi Ladies

I have just got my first bfn after my three icsi cycle...

My first two cycles were done under the pressure of working and doing a 4 hour daily commute. I was under no extra medication, like steroids, blood thinners etc. The quality of the first cycle embryo was low, I don't know the quality of the second cycle embryos as they put in the only two we got at day 3. After the transfer, you get changed and go home, no resting etc. I got pg both times, but miscarried.

This cycle, I'm on a career break, I went to a clinic abroad, literally nothing to focus on but the cycle. I have a top quality blast put in, I'm on steroids and blood thinners. After the ET, they make you lie down for at least an hour, I hardly did anything for the first 24 hours!.. I have had immunes testing, karotype, NK cells all clear......So how did it fail?...

...a less talented embryologist then the clinic in London? But if that's the case why other ladies wouldnt get pg. Maybe I shouldn't have flown the day after transfer, maybe the turbulence and jumpy journey was too much for the little embie trying to latch on, but the clinic did say it was ok to fly..

We pay all this money, inject ourselves full of drugs, go on this emotional roller coaster and try to control the variables as much as we can, but really is it all just down to luck?

Do you ever just ask yourself that?.. Or am I going


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## Sah78 (May 22, 2014)

I do believe it is just bad luck when u get a bfn as even the clinic do say that they can't explain why it doesn't happen. I think we do pay out all this money and inject ourselves (which is out of most of our comfort zones )as we all want to have what happens to others so easily but you have to keep hoping and fighting to reach our dream. I wish you all the best and at least we can say we tried our hardest


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## Argybargy (Mar 18, 2015)

Thank you for replying Sah

Just have to keep plodding on I guess.. nothing will come to us easily thats obvious. They say its takes 3 cycles for most people to get pg, guess we now arent most people..

Best of luck on your journey too xx


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Argybagy - I have just had my 3rd failed IVF cycle too. I don't really know what to think. During our first cycle we had a top quality blastocyst transferred  - but BFN. But then I thought, ok - maybe I need to improve my eggs. So I started taking CoQ10, I cut out all household chemicals and took a million other supplements. Second cycle was also a BFN - although two late developers did surprise us by turning into top quality blastos and were frozen. Third cycle I stuck to all the supplements and natural products and largely cut out alcohol too (which I didnt do during the 2nd cycle as it was Christmas so kinda hard). We got the most eggs ever - everything going so well!....BFN. So I just don't know anymore. I did everything right this time and we had the worst quality embyors of all 3 cycles. So I think it's probably down to luck too. But how come we haven't been lucky yet? And can I bare to go through another fresh cycle when I've kind of lost hope that this can work for me


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## Argybargy (Mar 18, 2015)

Hi Claudia

I'm really sorry you got a bfn, it sounds like you are in a similar mindset to me at the moment. 

There is no consistency. I got pg with what was considered the lowest grade blastocyst you can get, although I miscarried. Yet I had the best quality one of all my cycles, and bfn.

It makes you feel like it is just a lottery and if that's the case do I have just the same odds if I just try naturally!.. It does really mess with your head..

my DH's friend's wife got pg after 9 tries, he pretty much said you just got to keep going with IVF until you get to breaking point, I'm assuming he meant financially, emotionally and/or mentally.... Urgh!.

I think I am going to try and get myself into the mindset that even if everything goes well in the cycle, it still can be a bfn, so I can prepare myself. I think I just got my hopes up because everything went to well.. I don't think I am ready to give up yet.... I don't think..

Do you have any frozens embryos?. Xx


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## Carrie88 (Aug 2, 2015)

I'm really sorry  I'm in a similar boat. 

3 BFN. I'm 28 and with no fertility issues. 

Have you thought about PGS testing? Xx


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Hi Argybargy and Carrie,

It really sucks. Infact we just went back to see our doctor today and he said statistically 75% of women at my age would be pregnant after 3 cycles and that I had probably just been 'bloody unlucky!'. great. 

We have 4 frozen embryos. We think we are going to now get them all PGS tested. My doctor thinks that we can expect only 1 out of the 4 to be normal.  So we will transfer that next month. If we are super lucky and there are two, we will try to re-freeze the blastocyst for future use. I am quite nervous about this as there isn't much data on how blastocysts react to repeated freezing and thawing, the doctor thinks it would lessen their chances of thawing well a little bit - but not enough to make a major concern. I can't transfer more than one as I have a uterine abnormality which makes everyone terrified of me having a multiple pregnancy. 

So we are where we are. What a struggle. I will be 40 in October so think I can muster one more fresh cycle before then (if the FET doesn;t work) and if nothing has worked by Christmas - it's time to face reality and move on to donor eggs. If I was a lot younger I would definitley keep going, but at my age what is the point. My eggs are getting stale now - if it hasn't worked now, I don't think it will work in a year's time. 

so trying to be positive about this FET. Please send me babydust!! 

what are both your plans? 
xx


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## Summerwellies (Jun 17, 2016)

Hi
Hope you don't mind me joining this group. I had my 3rd bfn last week. My Follow up appointment is a week today and I'm happy to let you know what they say as I'm keen to find out too if this one was even possibly a case of bad luck. For this last cycle I had the scratch before hand, had fragmen injections to thin my blood, and changed to short protocol. We did better than previously and transferred a 4bb and 3bb but I still bled on the day my period was due. Like always! If only I'd known at school that I could have ignored all the lessons and scare stories about getting pregnant!

Like you Claudia I'm 40 soon (Jan) so if the consultant thinks it's worth another go we will. If they say to try again and if that then doesn't work, at the moment we're thinking we'll need to rethink if we aren't there by the end of the year. If they say it's not that'll be gutting but a small part of me is thinking I may find some relief in feeling free to rethink how we move on. If that makes any sense xx


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Hi Summerwellies,

I think we are on a similar time frame. DH and I have also set a limit to the end of this year. Possibly, one more fresh cycle and FET of any frosties that come back ok after PGS testing - and if none of that works - it's time to move on. You can't stay in this torturous limbo land forever - it's just not sustainable. We are thinking donor eggs in Jan if nothing else has worked. you?

xx


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## Argybargy (Mar 18, 2015)

Morning ladies

Carrie, sorry to hear about your repeated bfns. I have actually never heard of PGS testing.. I did some googling, in summary is it further testing on the embryo to see if there are any abnormalities?.

Claudia, why does the Dr think only one of your embryos will be normal?.. I would be thrilled to have four frozens, but being told that would definitely ruin it.

I have put drop off rates of fertilised numbers down the bad luck (there are those words again!), but now I'm beginning to wonder. First cycle was 7 to 1. Second, I don't know, because I only got 2 (I was under stimulated) and they put both back in. Third cycle, 5 to 2. Hmmmm

My plan is to do the FET, DH thinks we should take a few months out and get ourselves ready. But I'm in a state of mind where I just want to get it out the way, I've lost a lot of faith in the process, I have to say. Plus, my birthday is also in Oct, happy birthday us lol, and psychologically I want to do if before then.

Hi Summerwellies, so sorry to hear about your bfn. Yes do let us know what they say in your follow up app please. They don't offer one at my clinic unless we insist, but I don't really see the point in insisting, because I genuinely don't think there is anything they can say!

I totally know what you mean about having the decision made for you and then being free to make decisions on what the future holds. The psychological pressure of infertility and the attempting to have a child is exhausting.

Xx


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## Claudia H (Oct 2, 2015)

Hi Argybargy - yes it somewhat put the dampner on my excitement at having 4   but he says statistically at my age i should expect most of them to be aneuploid (chromosonaly abnormal). I think at 40 only about 30% of your eggs are normal and I am close to turning 40 so he probably isn't wrong. It's horrible to hear - but it is realistic i think and better to know now, than imagine all 4 are going to be great and then be bitterly disappointed later. 

x


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## MrsScooby (Jun 7, 2011)

Just wanted to give you all some hope and briefly share my journey.
This year after 8 fresh cycles, 13 years of trying to conceive and am now 43, I am now 27 weeks pregnant from my last cycle.
We were continualy told it was down to luck and to keep trying, recent research now suggests the average number of cycles to fall pregnant is 6!

DH and I have had numerous tests and investigations and all that came back was DH had a degree of male factor.  
We did look long and hard at immunity testing, we were desperately searching for answers.  We only ventured down this road briefly, seeing Dr Quenby for uterine killer test, which came back as normal.

Following this we looked at our lifestyle and decided to meet with a Natural Fertility clinic and look a completely different approach in preparation for our last cycle in Jan this year.
We spent 16 months preparing our bodies with various complimentary therapies, acupuncture, fertility massage, chinese herbs, hypnotherapy, fertility nutritional support, supplements.  
We stopped drinking alcohol, ate a largely organic sugar free diet and increased our fitness levels.
We never thought our lifestyle could potentially be having such an effect on our chances of having a baby, our way of thinking was increasing our lottery lines to increase the chance of winning.
It was a commitment and not without its moments of emotions and weakness, however we genuinely believe these changes have contributed to us now being pregnant.
It was expensive to commit to all of the therapies however it was cheaper than another failed cyle of IVF.
I additionally took a career break, no shift work with odd meal times and no stress, helped regulate hormone levels.

We completely resolved the male factor issue and improved my egg quaility, with my egg not having to expend energy correcting DNA fragmentation in turn improving our chances of implantation.

These many changes may or may not have helped have us have success this time but after so many years of trying treatment without success and for it to work after the changes we believe is significant.
It maybe we psychologically believed it would be different, even if it was only that then it was worth it all.

Please don't give up hope ladies, I know only too well how it feels to get BFN, bleed before test day and have early miscarriages.
Keep believing and stay positive.


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