# The invisible hole in my heart



## Mamaji

I'm 38, DH 47 (vasectomy 24 yrs ago after having 2 children from first marriage).  I have always wanted to have children since I was a child myself (i remember being 5 and wishing to me a mummy).  Falling in love with someone who has had a vasectomy was a huge thing for me but love conquers all and I adore him and him me   I always had in my head that everything would be ok, he could have a vasectomy reversal and we could try naturally or he could get sperm retrieval and do IUI.  I often had in the back of my head the though that there might be something would go wrong with his sperm as 24 yrs ago since operation but pacified it inside myself (with no emotional attachment or real connection that we would just adopt).  Never at any point did it occur to me that something would be amiss with me!!!  We did blood tests and it showed that DH is till producing sperm and that whilst the retrieval may not be successful it was possible.  My test showed that I had an AMH of 3.6, followed by an ovarian reserve scan which only showed 5 follicles in total.  Consultant said that it was extremely low and only 10% chance of retrieving eggs from me and 20% overall chance of success via ICSI and sperm retrieval.  He said best option of conceiving is egg donation via my sister.

My DH came into our relationship with a heap load of debt from his previous relationship (debt which is linked to his secured to his previous house), so money is scarce but our love for each other makes up for it.  However when we realised that only option of conceiving our baby is via egg donation and sperm retrieval to the tune of approximately £10,000 the bottom fell out of my world.  We tried for a loan and were turned down because of DHs commitments.

I feel like all my choices have been taken away, my body which I had always convinced myself was fertile is not and because of money we cant go ahead with any treatment. We do not qualify for NHS funding because DH had a vasectomy and has 2 children!!!  I have been reading posts on here since we were told at the end of October and am struggling to find someone in the same situation.  i feel guilty when i read other posts of women who had been through numerous failed treatments and still keep going - someone to the extent of being £35,000 in debt.  I don't feel entitled to voice my grief because it doesnt seem as bad as theirs must be, having had failed treatments.  i feel like a huge failure because i have not even been able to try!!!  

I went for counselling with DH and he was saying that even if we had managed to get the money he was concerned about the negative impact a failure would have had on me.  I am currentlky off work with depression and taking anti depressants, his fear was that i would fall apart.  My devastation is that I haven't even had a choice as to whether I am allowed to fall apart.  I rage inside that money stands between me and a baby.  I get envious of women I see posting who just spontaneously decide to pop over to Athens for some treatment.  Then i feel bad for feeling envious of other people - its a vicious circle.

I wake up in the morning and the first thing i am aware of is the huge space in my heart, a massive void of emptiness.  I am trying to go about my life but I feel no pleasure from anything, it is like I am an observer in a series of events.  I go shopping and there are children everywhere, the hole feels like it gets deeper when near children.  My sister has a 6mth old baby and 3 yr old who I adore but due to the pain i have to limit my exposure to them both as it hurts too much and end up crying in front of the children.  I keep having panic attacks and crying out of the blue, I just feel s empty and don't know how to move on.  i have had counselling which helps to sort out the jumbled thoughts but what can fill the huge hole.  I got a 12 wk old kitten a few months ago when the pain was unbearable I thought he might be able to fill the hole but although I adore him, he will never be my baby.

I feel like i have always had the image of my baby inside me 9a girl) and that i was waiting to fall in love with someone, get married and then the longing that Had would be turned into a real life baby.  How to begin to accept that this will not be the reality.  

I have 2 step children (22 and 25) who have 5 children between them, they just have to sneeze to produce babies!  I love my wee grand children to bits but seeing them is hard, its more reminders of what I cant have.

I thought I would start this thread in the hope that there are other women with similar experiences as I feel so alone.


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## Sam1971

Hi Starbaby.

I'm so sorry you are feeling so low. I too am not great at the minute but I am hoping with time and counselling things will be easier to bear and that hole may not be so big  .

I do have some similarities to you  in that we bought a puppy last year and although i adore her she does not replace having a baby of my own(but it does give you something else to focus on as your little bundle of fluff loves you and relies on you and would not be able to survive if you were not around to care for her).

I too have a step son who is 14 and although i love him it sometimes can make things more painful as it is a constant reminder of what I don't have.

My DH too is 47 but unfortunately he doesn't want to pursue the path of having children anymore as he now feels like he is too old  So egg donation was never somthing we spoke about so i can't understand fully but all i know is that i have to think things will get better in the future or whats the point. We didn't have any pf our IVF 4 cycles funded either because he already has a son and consequently because of that we are in debt  

You shouldn't feel guilty for voicing your grief just because you haven't had the chance to go through with any treatments though.You are hurting and to get it all off your chest on here may help you to feel a little better about things.

I'm sending you a big   and i really hope this forum helps you a little(it has me,i don't feel quite so isolated when i can talk/rant on here!).

Take care of yourself
Love and hugs
Sam
xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## geraniums

Hi Starbaby

I'm so sorry to learn about your situation and how you are feeling at the moment.

Although I'm lucky enough to have been able to - sort of - afford treatment, we've got to the point where the debt means we can't continue.  My DH has a daughter from his first marriage and we also inherited debts from this too. After ttc for a while, we discovered that my body and then DH's doesn't work properly and the more investigations we had, the more expensive treatment became.

At the moment I'm feeling angry about the miscarriages I have had, as I can't help wondering whether had I found out about the 'sticky blood' problems earlier if I might now be a mum.  I have to tell myself that even if I had known about and been treated for the blood clotting, all the other immune issues which we later discovered would have meant the same result. 

I  have a very close family who are all ridiculously fertile and have managed to produce 10 children in the time we've been trying for 1; so I'm constantly surrounded by small ones.  As I'm the only one with no commitments, I'm also easily available for baby-sitting duties and emergency look-afters.  I find this situation very difficult as I love my family and their kids, but often struggle with my feelings of longing and disappointment when I'm with them.

As Sam says, you are grieving and this is the place to let things out.  It has always seemed stupidly unfair to me that those of us who have never had our own children are penalised because our partners were lucky enough to have been able to have kids with someone else; our relationship does not make his child, our child and I know exactly what Sam means when she talks about her relationship with her step-son.

Sending you   and hoping this thread helps a little.


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## Mamaji

Sam1971, Geraniums: Thank you so much for posting I'm crying reading your replies - you special women   

I can relate to the feeling of being surrounded by small people in need of a babysitter, both of my step children try to put me and their dad on a babysitting rota and fight over whose turn it is to have their children watched!!  The hard bit (which is also precious to me) is that I was my step daughters birthing partner for her youngest daughter.  We have a really close relationship and when Ellie popped out I was the first person to hold her.  Whenever I see Ellie now I catch myself cuddling her more and not wanting to let her go, she seems to fill up the hole in my heart, but then when I start feeling her love it quickly flips into painful feelings of longing and loss.

My step daughter has sent me some nice text messages lately, saying that I might not have a baby but she thinks of me as her mum and has a closer relationship with me than her birth mum.  She melts my heart, but close as we are, she is and always will be her daddy's girl.  I agree that it is totally unfair that we are penalised because our partners have produced children!!!

I watched Jeremy Kyle the other day and 16 yr old girls popping out their second unwanted baby whilst they continue popping drugs.  I was roaring like a banshee at the tv at the unfairness that women who do not want babies or are unable to care for them pop them out so easily.  When there are women like us who long so much for a baby and have the devastation of miscarriage, failed treatments or no access to tratment.  I was cuddling my wee kitten sobbing "why should I have to pay to have a baby". 

Sending you both loads of love and hugs


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## sazzasarah

I have just read this thread and wanted to add my voice to say I am so sorry for your pain, starbaby.

I recognise lots of the emotions you are talking about. I don't have the money problems but have spent a lot on treatments and got nowhere so far, and I think the emotions are quite simple underneath it all - we all want our own babies, and it is so bloody unfair that we can't have them. Whether it's my own body, or my husband's, or the money, or whatever, it's the same hole in the heart at the end of the day. So I feel so much for you and think you must be really brave carrying on and dealing with the depression.

I don't know how long you have been trying for but I wonder if my experience would help you at all - it sounds like to me you are at the hardest stage and I just wanted to say that it's possible to feel better in life after a while, even without having successful IVF.  I have been trying for 5+ years and the first three years were very bad. Looking back now I would say I was very depressed for a couple of years and had great anxiety. I have 4 lovely nieces and nephews and for a long time couldn't really go near them without crying all the way home afterwards.  I stopped feeling joy in things and didn't know what I wanted to do with my life, career, etc etc - all I wanted was this one thing I couldn't have. 

Now I am still not pregnant - (though I am able to try another cycle before we run out of money so I recognise that your situation is more difficult).  I just wanted to say that even though nothing's changed for me, in the last year nboth me and my husband have found some kind of peace and acceptance with the process and we're starting to be able to feel calmer. It's not much I know - and I hope you will have a better resolution. I just wanted to say that the depression and sadness does have an end and that you are in the middle of a horrific grieving process, so give yourself lots of love and support. 
xxx


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## Mamaji

Sazzasarah:   thank you honey xx

How did you both get to that place of peace and acceptance?  I have had brief glimpses of it after I have had an episode of crying really hard, I go into a quiet still place and can almost hear a voice inside me saying "everything wil be okay".  It doesnt last long and I cant seem to hold onto it!  But I keep hoping that the still feeling will come more often


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## sazzasarah

For me it was partly just time - I wanted to try and go round the grief but I had to just go through it. Eventually I had 2 miscarriages in a row and that was worse even than IVF failure. I felt so bad after that there just wasn't anywhere else to go, for me anyway - so I started to gradually feel better just inevitably.

i also started seeing a therapist and spend a lot of hours just crying. Found I needed to do so much more crying than I thought I did. And I stopped apologising for feeling bad about it all - which is what I'd done before, I was trying to be really strong rather than saying "Yes, a totally ****ty thing is happening to me and sadness is OK".  So I think that helped a lot.  I think the quiet voice is there saying things will be OK, but I also found that when I stopped trying to make it be OK, strangely it was better.

I also made a plan for having some time off the IVF, my sister got married and I did a long distance flight to her wedding. Didn't want to be doing IVF or pregnant at the same time as that, so I had to have a few months off. I managed to find the time to do some other hobbies and things that I'd forgotten I liked, which helped me feel abit better.

These are all different things and obviously not fitting exactly with your situation. But I hope it helps to hear what someone else has done, even if it's not immediately applicable.


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## Mamaji

Sazzasarah: Oh you are so right about giving permission to NOT feel ok.  The relief I felt when I went to the doc and asked for time off work and antidepressants was immense.  I have one side of me that is gentle and accepts I need to go through this process but there is also a bit hard ***** within me that judges me and orders me to "get on with it".  My counsellor said that this is normal and that everyone has battles going on within when trying to resolve something - I guess it will just take time.  Your words have really helped though, thank you  .  I have been practising giving people an honest answer whenever they phone to see how I am - its often easier for them if I fake "I'm fine" than it is to be honest and admit that I have been in bed until 2pm, havent eaten anything, havent washed, dont intend to and been crying all morning.  Am eventually realising that I dont need to feel responsible for other people's reactions to my grief, that's their job, so from now on am going to try and be more honest!


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## sazzasarah

I wish you lots of calm and peace - and happiness too though I know that seems far off now.  Sounds like you are already working it through and dealing with things really well. If you are just kind to yourself I'm sure things will improve.  It helps me too to know that other people are going through it (though I wouldn't wish infertility on my worst enemy!).  best of luck and lots of love and support x


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## charlie_44

Hi starbaby

I just wanted to send you massive     You're very entitled to voice your grief hun, it's best to let it out and not bottle it up otherwise you get to the point where you just explode.  It's very wearing putting on a front all the time so allow yourself to wallow and hide away at times - I found I needed to do this and I came round in my own time.  You have to look after you and your DH and   everyone else sometimes!  I've really found out who my friends are through this, I've lost a few along the way but they obviously weren't worth having.  No one can truly understand unless they have been through it, that's how FF is so supportive   so vent away.

I'm having a bit of a wobble at the mo as we now have decided to adopt and are so excited and happy about it but a friend has just had a baby and it makes me a lil   but I know this will only last a few days but I guess it may always feel like that when I hear pregnancy and baby news   

Hope I've not waffled   

Take care x


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## Mamaji

CHARLIE-44 - Hiya!  Sending you loadsa love    it's hardest when there are babies around eh!  It always stimulates the what if scenarios in my head.  I torture myself with the PR thread when feeling bit low and self destructive and yesterday read about two recent success stories.  I felt bad because my initial reaction was joy for the two women as they have been to hell and back and deserve to have a baby, followed by a silent scream inside me "why cant it be me".  Followed by hours of research and trying to find ways round the finances to no avail!  I have just read ******** and my step son has posted that his one year old gorgeous son "is a pain in the **** as he wants attention all the time" - it makes me scream with frustration, why cant he be grateful for him!!

How did you eventually reach the decision to move onto adoption?  

I think because we have a definite financial block for the next 3 years at least (taking me to 41 and having probably and AMH of 0) that the choice has been taken away from me.  But at the same time its harder because I havent had a chance to go through any process it's just been a case of the tests being done, the realisation that the treatment we would need would cost more than we can afford - game over - finality before I even got to begin.  

I know what you mean about friends, I have been surprised - my oldest and closest friend has not had a clue what to do.  She is not a naturally maternal person so i dont think she can relate to any of my feelings at all.  I saw her six weeks ago and couldnt keep the tears from rolling down my cheeks, was telling her how I have found it hard to go out in public as too many children around which  makes me cry.  Her response - "give me a phone if you want to go out to the pub babes" WTF!!!!  Then no contact for six wks!

Its so hard to know how to move on.  I feel like something has died inside me, I always had an imaginary baby in there just waiting til I found my man and made it to ... nowthe realisation that it wont! happpen for real


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## mamadreams

Starbaby--

Huge massive   to you! Tears are running down my face as I read this...

I have so many of the same feelings as you. I am 38 with an FSH of 25 and very low AMH and have tried IVF X2 (in Paris and Chicago) and then DEIVF in Moscow X1 (where we live-we are American). None of them worked. As of right now, 23 family or friends of mine have either had a baby in the last 4 months or are pregnant. I have "hidden" all of them that are ******** friends as I just cry when I read the updates. I cry when see kids at stores and also feel like the joy in my life has been taking away from me and I didn't do anything wrong. Being a mom has been the most important thing to be since I was so young and I'm so ****** it's been taken away from me. I'm avoiding all these pregnant friends not because I am not deep down happy for them and I do wish them the best..but I jsut can't control my emotions and it's embarassing to start balling when someone tells you they are pregnant. We also looked into adoption, but DH really wan't interested and I didn't want to push him. Although we can make it work to afford treatment, DH does not like spending money on this. He tries to be supportive but even he says he'll survive without being a dad. I don't feel like I will. 

So, we are moving to Kiev and DEIVF treatment is less expensive than Moscow. I think we will give it a try there. 

So here's to HOPE for all of us!  

MamaDreams


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## charlie_44

Hi Starbaby



starbaby said:


> How did you eventually reach the decision to move onto adoption?


DH and I talked about this from the beginning and kept talking about it throughtout treatment. We had to use a donor so we sort of had our head round things quite early on if you know what I mean. We were very lucky that we had all our treatment through the NHS and as it was a lot we said if it didn't work we would draw the line there and not pay for further treatment. When I suffered a m/c  on our 2nd IVF it changed things and we talked about what would happen if our 3rd IVF didn't work. We did think we may have a 4th attempt and pay for that one. But after our 3rd we just felt enough was enough and we wanted to be a family more than we needed to go through a pregnancy. I was also concerned that if we paid for one go I would want to keep going until it worked and then when would we draw the line  It wasn't so much to do with the money, though obviously that came into it and we decided we would rather spend money on our family when we had one rather than 'blow it' on fertility treatment that may not work. We are really happy with our decision to adopt though we do get the odd 'pangs' that we will never have the tiny baby and everything that comes with it. Personally for us the adoption path is a much nicer place to be than the treatment roller coaster we had. We still have days when we struggle with the hand we were dealt but we just have to try to move on. I know further down the line, once we have our children we wouldn't have wanted things to be any different.

I hope things work out okay with you whatever happens


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## debbieeve

Hello everyone who are in the same boat.

I hate seeing mothers with children and babies, makes me feel sick with jealousy.My DH is 43 and myself 41. I have one little boy of 11 from a previous relationship. He has two grown up kids which were accidents. Now we want one of our own and things are going wrong we have been trying for three years and nothing. We cannot afford ivf treatment and the doctors won't put us on the nhs reason kids from previous relationships.

I agree with you, you are not alone.
I plan on never giving in trying for our little kiddie. I have even been to a fortune teller and they say I will have a kiddie sometime.
I wish every couple who has infertility problems the chance of have a kiddie.

never give up hope.
Debbie


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## skydog

hi starbaby,

i just wanted to drop you a line to let you know you are not alone. i too find things so difficult, just to go to the doctors for a repeat prescription of my antidepressants i feel myself praying that today of all days i wont see a preganant mum or some one with a baby. and if you do it feels as though someone has ripped you heart out and stamped all over it. i have a few friends who only have to look at a baby grow and they are pregnant and in some of there cases is makes me mad as they have 6 kids and dont have time for all of them yet i cant even have one to love. unfortunately i am not in a position to pay for surrogacy and all other treatment has failed, also adoption is not an option due to the rules being that a child can only be 40 years junior of the oldest partner and my DH is 49 so the youngest we could adopt would be 9. at the moment though i am feeling really low as a so called friend of mine is 14 weeks pregnant and had and 8month old which is my goddaughter (i say so called) as i have recently heard that she has passed comment that i only hand around her and her kids and i am too baron to have kids of my own, as you can guess i was so hurt and angry and blew my top and wanted nothing to do with her. then last night her husband turned up on my doorstep with a load of baby bits that i had given her when i had my last miscarriage saying that i was pathetic... me pathetic i swear i just wanted to rip his head off i felt sick to my stomach she knows i gave them to her as a present and also as i couldnt bear them in the house. so this was just another kick in the teeth now i feel so sick and sad and do yet again look at my life and question myself if i am just a freak, a saddo or even pathetic, i thought i was coping thanks to councelling and antidepressants but now im not so sure. I totally agree with you that you should not have to ask for permission to not cope, sadly it is something we have no choice over and the only people who actually know how you feel is people going/gone though that same things people who havnt can give there sympathies but at the end of the day they just dont/cannot understand what they havnt experience. 
I hope that you find a way of coping, although it takes time i can assure you is does (eventually) get easier although it might not seem like it at the moment. if you can get it through you gp i can whole heartedly reccomend councelling (its great for the panic attacks) and time is the only healer anger is the first step to getting through this and always remember YOU ARE NOT ALONE there is always one of us girlies to talk to.


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## charlie_44

skydog - I just wanted to send you massive    what your 'friend' and her husband have said is awful and disgusting.  You are better off without people like that in your life.  I know I've lost/disgarded so called friends along the way.  You are not a freak, saddo or pathetic.  You are a stronger person than your 'friend' to go through this in the first place.  Hang on in there and don't let small minded people like that bring you down, they haven't a clue what it's like.

Charlie x


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## TINKERBEL21

Hi Starbaby,
I want to send you a massive hug   coz even though my situation is a little different, we all have the same in commen, we are desperate to have a family!! The thought of never having the child we so long to have is unbearable and no-one but those going through the same thing understanding how it feels! Every waking second having that pain that sits at the pit of your stomach, that deep sharpe pain that's always in your heart, your arms so empty, you keep thinking why me? what have i done so badly to be given this amount of pain? If i am honest i don't have a clue how we are meant to get through all this pain, coz i am so far from getting over it, i am still at the beginning of grieving myself but all i do know is it helps to talk to those who know how you feel.
My DH and I have had 3 failed goes of ICSI and we don't have the money to go private and try again so it is the end of the line for us. But when i look at your situation i think least i had the chance to go through it and then it failed, where for you, you never even got off the start line, and for that i am truly sorry! I think its wrong that coz you DH has got 2 children already your not allowed ivf, life really does not seem fair!! All i can say is to get through everyday as it comes as that's all i do, that's all i know to do, anymore then that and i can't cope.
Just keep going, i hope one day it gets easier, but for now little steps is all we can take.

xxxxxxx


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## Sam1971

Hi Skydog

I have just read your post and i have to say that the way your 'so called friend' and her husband have behaved is appalling!!.. I can't believe that anyone could be so cruel knowing what you have been and are going through . 

You are not a freak or pathetic you are trying to cope with something that is just too traumatic for words 

I would say just try to be around people who care about you and your feelings. They make may the odd comment or do the odd thing that seems insensitive but it will be without intention. The 'so called friend 'doesn't deserve to have you as a friend if she can be that cruel.

I guess all any of us can do is in there and take each day as it comes (easier said than done sometimes i know!).

Big  
Sam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Mamaji

Skydog: Thats horrendous what your friend said and did  .  You definately DONT need ar ses like that in your life honey.  If this process is teaching me anything it is to appreciate the ones who choose to want to understand the hurt, put up with the ones who give the token sympathy (who have not a fecking clue what you are going through) and disregard the ones behave like your "friend" did.

I was discussing it with my counsellor the other day why it is that some people cant empathise.  She was saying that in order for someone to truly empathise they have to be willing to open themselves up to their own pain.  When we feel someone else's hurt it makes any hurt inside us move around and stimulates it, resulting either in what happens on these forums - lots of strong women in pain reaching out for and to others.  Or the other way, the person refuses to feel their own pain and therefore refuses to truly empathise.  That made sense to me.  My dad knows how much I am hurting but has loads of unresolved grief re his parents dying - he avoids giving me a hug when I'm leaving his house because the one time he did he filled up with tears - and I could feel his grief as well as my own.  He told my mum that he felt awful after hugging me and felt really flat and low.  He has never been a man to express his feelings he prefers to squash them all down and pretend they are not there.  

If he sees me crying his method is to give me chocolate or alcohol - when what I would like is a cuddle from my dad.

Well that's a wk now since the doc increased my dose of antidepressants and for the first time in weeks the other day I woke up and not being able to have a baby wasnt the first thing that I thought about!  I looked around my bedroom and pointed out to DH that he had still not put his clean washing away.  DH filled up with tears as I then went on to say that I needed to clean the bathroom.  He told me that this was the first time in weeks that I had nagged him and it made him feeel happy    Also that I actually had the urge to clean the bathroom rather than it be a goal that i was setting myself to get through the day.  Well I was so happy - thought to myself - finally I am getting well yahoo bring it on!!!  I flew out of bed put his clothes away, tidied the house, washed the floors whilst singing along to music.  Then I had the positive thought that  should use this positive energy to help my sister -she has a cold and has two girls 3yr old and  6 mth old.  It was pouring with  rain and so i sent her a text offering to do the  nursery run for her so that she didnt have to go out or get wet.  I said that I would take Lillie (baby) with me so that she could have a nap.  i felt good that I was even thinking of putting myself in  that position!

Then my sis phoned me to say she was feeling much better, thanked me for offering but said she was taking her car to get fixed and meeting a friend so she would be ok doing it herself.  As soon as she said it (even though her words were absolutely fine) the huge tears started falling down my face to the point I pretended to my sis that someone was at the front door so I could get away.  I sobbed for half an hour as I realised that although I was feeling signs of happiness that morning the huge gaping hole had reared its head and taking the kids to nursery was a way of trying to fill it up.  When I wasnt needed .. all I was left with was the reminder of the hole.  I was devastated that I had only managed to be happy for an hour before the hurt took over     Really angry at myself for not being stronger!!!!

I saw my counsellor that afternoon (as luck would have it) and cried the whole hour realising how desperately I had wanted to be a normal woman pushing a baby in a pram and taking a 3 yr old to nursery.  I wanted the feeling of people in the street looking at me, seeing me as a NORMAL part of society with a family - instead of the the total fcuk up that i feel!!  The reality of realising that I will never push a baby in a pram hit me and is still hitting me.  I tried to make myself fee better by looking properly into adoption locally in my area - this has only confirmed my hurt- because DH will be 48 soon and the process takes about 9 mths to get approved then the wait for a child.  The reality is that because of the rules that there should be no more than a 40 yr age gap between the oldest parent and the child that we would be assessed for a child of at least 9.  The thought that  will never get to be a mum to someone younger than 9 hurts.  DH would probably be fine with an older child he says that he is getting older and he has had to adjust his head even to the thought of starting again as a family with wee ones because he has been there and done it twenty odd years ago.

I felt so sad the other day when I looked at DH and realised that he will never be enough.  Some women can revolve their whole life round their man and feel complete - I need a child to help my world  to feel complete.

Sorry for the huge nvel ........ am lyng in bed trying not to cry and thought it might help to just type it all out of me  

Sending love out to everyyone who can relate to these feelings


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## Sam1971

Oh starbaby

I am so sorry for you  . I had already replied on the other thread before i read this. i'm not really sure what to say to you but i know i feel scared sometimes when i think that it will just be me and Dh and no future children. worried that in the future we will split, or he will leave this world before me  and 

All i can say for me is that i keep telling myself if i leave him i might end up with nothing  because that is what i would be leaving him for and there are no gurantees i would meet anybody else that i would want to share my life with. and if i did would they definitely want children and would it happen with them as im not getting any younger. then i think well we could adopt but they may not want to adopt so would i go through adoption on my own 

Alot of ifs/buts and maybes for me and all i know is is that i do love my Dh and he loves me and i have to try and be happy with what i have got instead of wishing for something i may never have.

Its so hard and you constantly feel like your head is a washing machine with it all going round and round 

From what you have said before you both love each other and i know sometimes that is not enough but just take time and dont rush into anything you might regret as This might be just a reaction from your dissappointment with your sister earlier.

You deserve to be happy as we all do on here and i truly hope you find that one day.

Love and hugs
Sam xxxx

P.S I hope i haven't spoken out of turn with what i said above- just trying to relate it to how i feel as i think we are in a similar situation with our partners


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## Mamaji

Hi Sam

You haven't spoken out of turn at all I appreciate your opinion.  You're right I DO love DH with all my heart and would never consider leaving him, I know we are meant to be together I think the feelings I have sometimes are more my need to want to blame someone for the  injustice of it all!  I'm very good at blaming myself and beating myself up emotionally and when it gets too much I seem to want to hit out at him.  Thankfully nothing has come out of my mouth to him in a nasty way, it all goes on in the washing machine that is my fcuked up head lol!

I think I am going to go off and make some home made bread, methinks all the kneading of the dough will do me good!!


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## Libran

Hi Starbaby, Hi Sam
Starbaby, I am so sorry you've had such a difficult day.  Big    to you.  From an outsiders perspective, I believe you are making incredible progress.  However, you still need to take it slowly and be kind to yourself.  It sounds very much like today you had a "glimpse" of recovery, then, spurred on by that, you pushed yourself further than you probably should.  The result :  a relapse.  There is no magic "cure" for IF, but we all long and strive for that day where it no longer dominates us and defines who we are and what we do with our lives.  You are most definitely heading in that direction.
It's great that you have such a supportive DH.  Your DH sounds just like mine - when the grief threatens to overwhelm, his automatic response is to ask if I have enough chocolate in the house !
Sam,   to you too.  Reading your posts, I totally understand the battles that you are going through.  We are all bound to have good days and bad days.  On some days, we can cope with just about anything, on other days we can't cope at all and just need to be alone.  Obviously, the trick is to recognise this and not push yourself into social situations on days that you are feeling fragile.  I'm so sorry to hear you feel you might split with DH.  No relationship (even those of couples with children) comes with a Lifetime Guarantee, but I guess (hard as it is) you need to put IF to one side for one moment and assess whether or not there are underlying issues with DH (aside from IF) that need tackling.  
Hope I haven't spoken out of turn, and    to everyone else reading this thread.


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## Sam1971

Hi Starbaby,Libran 

Starbaby hope you are okay and have been feeling a little better . 
How did the beadmaking go? Its making my mouthwater just thinking anout the smell of home made bread(probably because i'm on a diet and can't have any )

Libran- how are you? You definitely haven't spoken out of turn and offered some very wise words and advice so thankyou . Its definitely so true how some days you just believe that you can cope with anything and it will all be alright and then the next day you are right back down at that mountain looking up and thinking you wont ever make it off the ground let alone anywhere near the top!!

Hope this is a good week for both of you

Love and   
Sam xxxxxxxx


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## imogenautumn

Hi Starbaby, 

I can totally relate to your situation. I am 26, just had tubal surgery and been told I have PCOS and a 10% chance of conception!! My husband has 4 children (two separate relationships) so I am not entitled to NHS funding either and nor can we possibly afford it. So that is it pretty much over for me. 

I resent my husband for this even though I am fully aware its not his fault, he says it hurts him too, but its about ME he has his family!! I'm mad at him and I know I'm being selfish!! I'm very hard faced and I do not show my emotions in front of ppl, only  very close friend knows my situation, not my family. But as I was reading these posts (alone) and writing this I am crying.
I bought a doll so that when I was alone I could pretend she was my baby.
My husbands kids are still young so we have them at weekends, I do things with them but I cant bond with them. When I decorated their bedroom or bought their Christmas presents I was mad, 'cos all I kept thinking was 'I should be doing this for MY child'. 
I know I'm not being rational, but I can't help these feelings!! I just want to scream at everybody all the time. I need to grieve but I don't know how. Sorry for ranting on your post xx
I hope you are OK starbaby


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## Mamaji

Hiya Imogenautumn   I think what you are feeling towards your husband is a normal reaction to a situation which is unfair!  For a good few weeks after we realised we could not afford the treatment I used to sit and scowl at my husband - thoughts of why did I marry him; why should I suffer because of his bl**dy debt; why should I suffer because he had two feckin children that he didnt even plan to have; why is it my eggs that are disappearing, yet his sperm is still alive and well inside him after 24 yr vasectomy.  There were days when I wanted to roar all of these thoughts at him, other days I would catch myself imagining life without him, other days I wanted to physically hit him.  I didnt do any of these things.  I realised that I was looking for someone to blame and the person closest to me was the easiest target.  Rather than take it out on him I decided to write, whenever the feelings got really strong I would grab a pen and just write whatever thoughts were in my head without stopping.  By the time I had finished my head was empty and the feelings had calmed down.  Or the other way round -the anger would boil up and I would go and take it out on my husband's punch bag .  I have always been a person who has coped with things, the person who supports others in times of crisis - always able to put the brave face on to hide real feelings.  However the reality of realising that you cant have your own baby stirs up some of the deepest feelings and you need to give yourself permission to let go - which is not easy!!!  Whilst it feels crap - it's good that you let your feelings come up reading these posts - the grief will come out in its own time honey - have you thought about going for counselling?  I battled against going for months and eventually had to give in as I was driving myself nuts! It has really helped me to understand that my reactions and feelings are normal and also to learn to attempt reaching out to others to talk (v hard as I am so stubborn).  Try to be gentle with yourself sending you loads of love    

Nic x


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## imogenautumn

Hi Starbaby,

Thank you!! I feel so much better knowing that I am not the only one that feels that way. I have tried writing when it really gets to me, however my husband thinks I am going to leave him over this and then a row breaks out, as I when I write in my diary he worries its about him and he thinks I should tell him every thought I have!! I have tried counselling in the past and I just felt worse. Like you I am always the strong one, the one that has to deal with everybody else's problems and bail them out every time!! I fought tooth and nail for my husband to have access to his children when his b***h of an ex stopped him, even though I didn't want to for my own selfish reasons. I had a friend in the same boat that understood but then she got pregnant!! I was really, genuinely pleased for her but now I don't want to bring her down, I want her to enjoy her pregnancy as she has waited so long for it.
I'm just not handling it very well at the moment. I saw something on here about grieving and a ceremony of some description. I think that's what I need but I'm not sure how to go about it!! I'm sorry for rambling on at you, just feels good to 'talk' to someone that actually, truly understands.

Big hugs and wishes      for a lottery win for ya lol  xx


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## Mamaji

Hiya Imogenautumn

Heh girl you're entitled to rant - just ask my two cats they have to listen to me most days  .  I have found talking to people here really helps.  This whole thing can feel so isolating eh!  I felt that way until I started getting responses from people who knew what I meant and identified with the feelings - it stopped me thinking I was going loopy!  Your husband is probably going through loads of insecurities and fears but he should allow you the privacy of your own diary.  Maybe you could use these threads to write out all your feelings?  I thought about the ceremony thing too but don't think I'm ready - it feels even more final ... the same as when someone dies and you wander around in la la land until the day of the funeral then during the funeral it smacks you in the face that the person wont be coming back.  I think the ceremony could be good for that to bring the journey to an end .... but I guess unlike death .. you can choose when the time is right, when you are ready for the ceremony.  I have had thoughts about what I would do ... I think I would buy a special box and fill it with all the things that I would have looked forward to buying for my wished for baby.  First thoughts go to first size baby grows with I love my mummy on the front (for when he/she would have come out of hospital), first size nappies, a dummy, bibs, mittens, bootees, soft blanket ...... oh it's hard writing it down - tears falling down my chops!! Need to go for now need to cuddle my wee kitten to make it feel better - but sending you love


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## imogenautumn

Hi Starbaby,  

Sorry to upset you  . 
I think I do need that finality, I'm very practical and I can't hold on to wishes, I like your idea very much, it seems
appropriate and to be honest I will do anything to get rid of this feeling!! At least by CHOOSING to let go it will give me back some kind of control I guess.
It's the inadequacies I feel compared to his ex, which I know is stupid but it doesn't stop my head buzzing with it. All I picture is her and him going through the pregnancies together, the births all the firsts, and I can't give him that  (he suggested us having a baby) nor will I ever experience it for myself.
I drive myself mad with it all the time, yet I know how pathetic it is!! I just need to get a grip I think, I wish their was some way I could help other people, that would make me feel better xx


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## Mamaji

Imogenautumn   Just had a huge snuggle with my adorable wee kitten - feeling better now! You didnt upset me, its doesn't take much to make me   just now - better out than in as my gran would say!  It's so hard not to compare yourself to others who have managed to pop out babies eh.  My sister has a 3 yr old, 7mth old and her husband came home the other night all loved up asking if they could try for another baby - said it in front of me.  I cried myself to sleep thinking how easy it is for them - dive into bed for a quick sesh and baddabing .... baby.  She conceived both her girls on the first night they tried!!!  I am trying to hold onto the positive things in my relationship with my husband outwith our wish for a baby - we have planned special dates with each other to start to appreciate the love we have for each other.  I realised I was focusing on what I cant have, what I feel I have lost- when really none of these things can be changed .. but the way I react to the situation can.  I love the idea of choosing when the journey come to a close - for a control freak like me -that's comforting    I can understand if you have come to the point that you are ready for the finality, the closure.  You ARE NOT pathetic (am shouting this with a pointy finger   followed by a   - the lack of baby, the lack of choice, the lack of control is soooooo hideous - you are entitled to your feelings You are already helping others , anytime you write on here there will be someone reading who maybe isnt ready to post yet, but is gettting comfort from your words, or those of us who are already here.  This is a safe space where we can all help each other xx


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## imogenautumn

Starbaby,

You made me chuckle!! Im glad you are finfing ways to cope and I'm glad you can confide in your husband.
You have made me feel heaps better, I was very nervous posting on this site but I have realised that no matter what you write, no matter how deep or heartfelt, everybody can relate and understand the anguish without judgement!! Everybody's situation is different but the pain is the same.

I understand you reasons for not wanting to let go just yet, but the longer I hang on the worse it gets.       XX


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## Mamaji

Imogenautumn: I think the moving on thread is full of strong, feisty women whose hearts are as fragile as the babies we wished for.  We all understand the emptiness inside and the physical pain of hearts breaking - before this I hadnt realised that emotions can cause physical pain    If you are ready to let go then i'd love to support you as I'm sure everyone on these threads will


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## imogenautumn

Thank you Starbaby,
Its lovely to hear words of support like that!! I'm not sure what else to say, words are low today lol x


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## Mamaji

I've got an appointment with the Doctor in half an hour to get my sick line renewed and more tablets.  I've been doing some research on the Merina coil which my sister is on.  She said that since going on it her PMT has disappeared as have her periods!!!  We obviously don't need it for contraception but my periods are really heavy and sore and PMT bad - although hard to tell at the moment what is PMT and what is depression  .  It might sound mad but I can't help but think that if I could take my periods and the hormonal swings away then it might help me to move on a bit.  Otherwise every month I feel the exact moment that I ovulate (sharp ping in my stomach) which makes me cry thinking - that's another unused useless egg gone; then the build up of hormones to my period which makes me really weepy; then the actual period which is agony and makes me cry for the least wee thing.  I think I cant just about accept that we wont be having our baby but the monthly reminder of it drives me crazy .... whilst I can learn to shut off my head ... shutting off my body is not so easy!  I'm going to discuss it with the doctor and see what she says


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## imogenautumn

Starbaby,

I have the exact same problems, I am in agony every month and it feels like I'm being taunted!! Have you tried Vitamin E (heavy periods) or Evening Primrose Oil with B6 (for PMT) before going down that route?? I found it helped quite a bit. I hate hormone contaception, it makes me fat and as I have PCOS I don't want to make the weight issue worse! I have tried so many things over the years and I agree that its sometimes hard to figure out if it is PMT or depression that makes you feel so low.
Good luck at the doctors I hope they can make you feel better xx


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## Mamaji

Hello sending warm sunshine to everyone     

Well I can honestly say that I've had a good day today woohooo!!!!! Woke up quite early, the sun was shining, my cats had found the sunny spot in the room and were sunbathing, I looked over at my DH who was still sleeping and snuggled into his pillow looking adorable.  My AF is due today and I said to myself that when it arrives I will choose not to cry and get all regretful and angry about not being able to have a baby I will instead do what I can to appreciate the people and things in my life.  DH woke up and his first words to me were "phwoarr you look gorgeous this morning".  I burst into tears .... cue DH getting worried that he had upset me .... I'm blubbing away saying "it's just my hormones ..... I'm crying happy tears .... I loo....vvv...eeee you  ho....nn....eeee" in between rubbing my snotty nose from crying    In that moment though I looked at him and saw the way he was looking at me ... so much love in his eyes and I suddenly appreciated what we have together all over again.  We decided to go out for a ride of on our bikes as it is such a beautiful day - we got to a huge hill and we raced each other down it freewheeling.  Cue happy tears again   My hair was flying behind me, the wind was warm on my face and the sense of freedom rushing through me was amazing.  I was flying down the hill shouting "weeeeeee" like a wee kid.  First time in months that I have felt that sense of freedom and it felt soooooooo good!

AF have not arrived yet but I'm hoping that the happy feelings I've had throughout the day will keep going!!!

Love to everyone .... I now have a glimpse that it is possible to be happy again yeeehaaa!!!


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## imogenautumn

Hey,
What a lovely post!! So nice to hear such happiness and positivity. Hold on to that feeling x


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## Mamaji

Imogenautumn: Sending some happiness your way - it's my mission today to make the happiness infectious and pass it on to as many people as possible    How's things your end? x


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## imogenautumn

Well Starbaby, I think your plan is working lol. Not too bad with me thanks, enjoyed the sun  today, hope tomorrow is just as lovely. 1 day at a time! Xx


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## Sam1971

Nic

That is sooooo fantastic. What a lovely post and i really hope you are still feeling the same 

  to you too imogenautumn.

Take care

Love Sam xxxx


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## Mamaji

Sam:   how are you? Did your counselling go ok ... was thinking of you ...

Tribble: How's your ankle doing?

Imogenautumn: One day at a time is sometimes the best approach, glad you're enjoying the sunshine.

Well .... my determination to stay happy worked!!!! AF arrived last night just as I was going in the bath, but as I'd had such a good day I didnt have any negative thoughts which was a welcome relief.  Instead I went in the bath with a lovely cold glass of wine and DH kept popping in to feed me chocolate - he has learned over the years that chocolate is essential    I did have a moment where I looked at my puffy tummy and a fleeting thought of "no baby" popped in .... but I remembered what my counsellor said that I can choose to have a reaction to the fleeting thought or I can choose to have a positive response.  So I decided to stroke my tummy to get the warm water to soothe it ..... and no tears!! I kept stroking my tummy thinking er hem this is odd I actually feel okay - followed by woohoo I feel okay!!!  I came out of the bath and couldnt stop smiling - DH asked why and when I said it was because I started AF, stroked my tummy and didnt cry ... the wee soul didnt understand "is that quite a big deal Nic?" says he tentatively   I explained what usually happens on first day of AF and it was his turn to smile.  I know it's such a small thing, but that's what has been dragging me down ... the thought that I will have years left of periods and miserable thoughts each month.  Really chuffed that this is another small glimpse into moving forward and feeling stronger!!!! 


The sun was shining again all day and we had another relaxing day together ... love him soooo much!!!!  AF really painful and heavy but still not making me cry - maybe the sun is giving me happy hormones  Have also made a deal with myself inside my head that if I wake up tommorow or the next day and dont feel as happy as this ... then its okay ... not to judge myself but like you say Imogenautumn .. one day at a time..

   Nic x


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## Mamaji

Came on to re-read my last two posts as I knew they were positive and wanted to try and reclaim that happy feeling!!!! 

Ah  well two days feeling good then today flat as a pancake ... the empty zombie has returned for a visit.  I woke up tears in my eyes and that sinking feeling in my stomach.  I noticed it but pushed hard to bring positive thoughts in ... the sun was shining again.... forced myself to bounce out of bed and put on a nice summer dress and do my hair.  Looking in the mirror my head was full of negative thoughts, my eyes looked so empty and sad.  I tried something my counsellor had spoke about - I looked into my eyes in the mirror and said out loud "why am I sad today".  The tears started filling up in my eyes and my hands went to my stomach ... I found myself cradling my stomach and rocking back and forth whispering "no baby... no baby... I wont have a baby".  Am glad nobody saw me  .  I ended up sitting on the floor with my knees pulled up to my chest and my arms wrapped round my legs ... its what i used to do as a child when upset.  I stayed like that and allowed the tears to just come ...... it was sore but at the same time felt okay.

I forced myself to go shopping with DH and then came home to sit in the sunshine and read my book.  I think I read the same page over and over again   my head was so fuzzy every time I got to the end of a paragraph I had forgotten what I had just read so had to start again - I blame the hormones!!   I had parts of the day where I could feel something ... then I returned back to the empty feeling   I asked DH for a cuddle without explaining anything and as soon as he held me I shut down even more!  I could feel the tears coming but didnt want him to see - am trying to stay positive for him as  he is worried re his work interview - so i went to the local shop and came back with 3 cabbages .... mmmm not sure why, cabbage did not remotely go with what we were having for dinner    DH just looked at me ... "3 cabbages hun ...."

Am still feeling really flat now ... but I guess what is good is that i am not giving myself a hard time for not being able to stay cheery .. tommorow is a new day and however I feel is okay.  Going to snuggle up in bed and cuddle into my huge cat Arnie, he is so cuddly and loves lying on my chest for hours . ... Tommorow is a new day


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## Mamaji

How nice is it to have sunshine every day    helping me to smile!!!!

We have been productive the last few days in the garden, garden fence painted, garden shed painted, garden bench painted ... it looks soooo nice.  DH was determined that we would do something that we could  do lots of things to feel that we had achieved something.  

I had my first session with a new counsellor today ... she was soooo nice we clicked straight away.  I was telling her that DH keeps mentioning how long it has been since we went to the hospital (last October) and that he keeps saying that I should be over it by now.  She counted the months ... rolled her eyes and said "that length of time is f**k all .. you will take as long as it takes".  It was exactly what I needed to hear as I often give myself a hard time that I am not being strong enough and that I should be moving on by now.  Her words kinda validated how I feel.  I was really nervous about seeing someone new but I think its a good decision I had a really good feeling about her.  I liked her honesty too, there were a few times when I was describing my feelings and crying that she had tears in her eyes.  Some counsellors hide stuff like that.. but she put her hand on her own heart as I was speaking and when I stopped she said that she was deeply moved by what I was saying and that she could feel the depth of my grief.  There was a real sincerity in her actions and words which meant a lot..... made me cry even harder but it was okay.  Feel quite tired tonight it took a lot out of me but have a sense of inner calm which is soooo nice - looking forward to sinking into freshly washed bedding .. mmmmmmmmm

love to everyone Nic x


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## imogenautumn

Hey Starbaby, 

Not sure what I can say, I have shut out my own feelings and desperately trying to think of anything else. I'm 26, I need to move on and focus on the obtainable, but then again I am a hard faced ***** and its just my way, sometimes I wish I could express myself like you do and maybe feel a bit of a release instead of an urge to drink myself into oblivion!! I really wish I could find some way to make you feel better and take the pain away.
I'm supposed to be going to see my consultant on June 20th and possibly be put on Clomid, 1 half of me thinks I should give anything a try and the other half just wants to run away from everything and everyone and start again, be a new me without all this pressure and heartache!! Does that sound odd?? I know the problem will still be there but its just an urge I have, a fresh start without all this false hope!! Not sure if that makes sense or not tbh!! 
Anyway, I'm always here if You need a rant, I have strong shoulders xx


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## Mamaji

Imogenautumn: I will agree that you do have strong shoulders, probably disagree with the hard faced woman bit ... I think you're being a wee bit harsh on yourself hun.  My DH describes himself as hard faced too but really when I dig under the surface of him there is a vulnerable person who is sh*t scared to feel emotion as it has never been something he has done and he is scared of being overwhelmed.  The urge to just pack all feelings away in order to move on can be huge - that used to be my coping method years ago.  I was raped when I was 17 and because I didnt want him to win I just got on with it and packed it all away.  5 years later it came back and bit me on the **** .. it took splitting up in a relationship for all the feelings to come flooding out.  I went for counselling then and realised that sometimes counselling makes you feel terrible, that feeling the feelings is painful and hard work ... but it also made me realise that if I kept shoving the feelings away they would just sit there until I was ready to deal with them. .. so I dealt with it and it went away properly. The way you are describiing wanting to run away from it all and start again was exactly how I felt back then.  For me it was almost like I wanted to press the delete button and then the pain wouldn't be there any more and start afresh ... if only eh!!  What i wanted to run away from was the pain of the feelings .... do you think that could be what's going on with you? 

I can totally get that you are questioning whether or not to go on clomid and the need for something obtainable.  If it was me I would probably be split in two .. one half .. as you say desperate to try anything but scared that it wouldnt work ... the other half saying no i need to move on I need this to end I need finality otherwise it will go on and on and on every month ... not being able to give up on the hope.  Maybe you are doing the right thing trying to put it out of your mind for a bit .. maybe by June you will have a gut reaction as to what you want to do??  

You said that you want to be a new you ... that doesnt sound odd at all .. sounds totally normal to me.  I was talking to my counsellor about the same thing... asking her how I could be me again without the sadness and what advice she had to help me to return to who I was before all this.  She said that at my core I will be the same person ... but in my heart I may never feel the same... but that its ok.  Mmmmm I much prefer the magic button solution where I could turn back time Dr Who style and erase all the pain and events of the last 6 mths - that would be great eh!!!  Then wave another wand that makes me hugely fertile, stops my DH having his vasectomy 24 years ago and produces a baby.  

When you say that you want to focus on the obtainable .. what would that be for you?

Sending you


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## Mamaji

Hiya!

Well two days to go until I go back to work - I saw the occupational therapist the other day and he agreed to sign me back... even though he wanted to sign me off for another 4 wks.  My sick pay has dropped and I had £500 less this month... didnt have enough to pay the bills   

We would usually have been cushioned by expenses that DH gets from work but with him being suspended, its down to basics.  He had his interview last wk and think it went ok, the report is to be in for 16 may so hopefully the guy investigating has got some integrity and does not scapegoat my honey  .  He is really down at the moment, he hates not being at work and is going brain dead .... the whole house has been painted, the kitchen has had a revamp... I'm running out of things that he can "fix"  

I dont want to go back to work... whenever I think about it I feel empty... no enthusiasm whatsoever.  I almost resent having to go back..... I think in my head we should have started treatment in January... hoped that it would have been successful and that I would be sitting balancing plates on my expanding bump by now.  In my head I think I had been preparing for the next chapter in my life... a baby and the focus of work disappearing.  I have never been a career person, it has just kinda happened to me.. I am good at what I do but now .... I dont feel like I care!  How can I return to a care environment with vulnerable people with dementia when inside me I dont feel like I care whether I am there or not or that i have anything of value to give!  I was at counselling the other day and cried for the whole hour ... I hadnt realised that so much of my identity is wrapped up in being a mummy and having my own family.  I almost feel like I have lost my identity and dont know how to be me anymore.

I spent time with my grand children and niece last weekend and enjoyed jumping in the paddling pool with them for about an hour ... then i started to feel full up and had to be on my own.... it was starting to get too much and I didnt want to cry in front of the kids    Lately whenever I am pushing myself into positive mode I think of fostering ... in my head it would be my new job ... all the experience I have in care would come into play as i would have to deal with social workers etc and the plus side is I would get the blessing of having children that I can give love and a sense of family to.  But it saddens me that I get full of so quickly ... after an hour .. two at most .. of being around children.  So I go back to square one ... the solution .. ie bringing children into my life wont work just now because I am still grieving that I cant have my own and it hurts to be around children.  It feels like bl***y groundhog day just going round in circles!  I am a naturally positive person and get so fed up of the negativity that I feel a lot of the time... its just not me!

I watched a cookery programme today and got it in my head to make macaroons as they looked yummy and easy.  DH was busy so i jumped in the car without thinking about it and went to the local shops to get the ingredients .. within 5 minutes in the shop I had a panic attack. There I was sweating, shaking and leaning against some baked beans as I could see stars in front of my eyes    I was so angry and upset at the same time.  It came out of nowhere!!!! Feel so frustrated I have to go back to work because of money... but know in my heart I am not ready!! Feel so      money stopped me having feckin treatment... now money is stopping me taking the right amount of time to recover from the fact I cant have treatment f***k f***k f***k f***k  am so mad, upset, feeling inadequate!!! Am guzzling rose wine which probably wont help other than give me a hangover tommorow.... ah well ....rant over ...sorry.... love to everyone


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## Mamaji

Sorry for being such a negative moo in that last post .. promise I will perk up soon  

Nic x


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## Mamaji

Youch!!!! Who said rose wine would help   my head is banging, have got hot flushes and my huge black cat sitting on my chest wanting cuddles...... moooore sleep methinks


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## Mamaji

Hiya

Am like a coiled spring so thought I would try to get it all out here before I explode!!

My work has just been on the phone and have agreed that I will go back to work this wednesday and thursday .. to meet HR manager and Senior Manager at 11.30am wednesday then on thursday meet with my own manager   I have this huge feeling of dread inside me!! When the HR manager phoned she said "I really cant tell you how pleased I am that you are coming back we have all missed you.  Are you looking forward to coming back?"  I couldnt lie.... would have been so easy to put on my professional head and go "yes really looking forward to it" but I couldnt say it because it would be a huge lie.  Instead I said "it will be nice to see people again".  God knows how I am going to answer them on wednesday when they will be planning what work I can do over the next 4 wks.  I am going back for 2 days first wk then 3 days for the next 3 wks.  I can just hear them now trying to convince me that getting stuck into whatever wee project they come up with for me will make me feel better!!!  Aaaaaaaah ... who feckin cares!!!!!!!!!!! I feel so angry!!!!!!   I dont want to go to feckin work, I dont want projects to do, I dont want to have to fake enthusiasm and smiles ....... I WANT A BABY!!!!!!!!!!!  I've never felt sooo angry inside me its like something churning away inside my stomach and my throat is so tight.  Counsellor said last wk that she sensed the anger and sense of injustice was rising up within me ... guess this is it coming!  DH keeps saying things like "you have to go back to work babes if i lose my job you will be the main breadwinner".  I have to restrain myself every time he says it and I want to slap his chops    It makes me feel so much pressure when he says it!! Think I will have a go on DH's punchbag see if I can calm down a bit.  Last night had all these dreams about babies ... they were everywhere and someone kept offering them to me and when I reached my arms out the baby would vanish and turn into smoke.  It seemed to go on all night, hundreds of babies all disappearing whnever I tried to touch them.... was only a dream but I woke up sweating and shaking.  It's DH's birthday tommorow so I need to punch the crap out of the punchbag to get myself into positive mode to plan a nice day for him tommorow xx


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## Rowan22

Hi Starbaby,

It's so hard when you have financial worries added to all this, isn't it?
I hope your dh's situation sorts itself out soon, you've enough to cope with at the moment without all this hanging over you.
I understand exactly what you mean about work, it's just not that important anymore. We are in a similar situation, as I have to earn money and at the moment my dh has had a lot of time off work, either off sick or on holiday and he doesn't get paid for any of it! If I didn't work, we couldn't pay the rent. 
It sounds as if you've got a good counsellor. My problem is I can't express anger, except by turning it back on myself in some way. This is awkward because it does have to come out. Your idea of the punchbag is a very good one!
I'm sorry about the dream, that is so sad!  Doesn't all this bite you on the bum when you least expect it? I'm getting used to hearing my neighbour's little boy constantly playing in the garden with all this good weather but when I went into town this morning and saw a cute little toddler, back came all the feelings! We've just been rejected by another adoption agency because they say they can't match us to their children. It's probably best if I don't comment about how I feel about that!
I have absolutely no idea where we go from here.
I hope you can sort something out at work and make an arrangement that is doable for you. Do punch the crap out of the punchbag, it sounds like a very, very good thing to do!

Rowanxxx


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## Mamaji

Hiya Rowan

Thanks for your kind words   So sorry to hear about what has happened with the adoption agency ... that's awful honey.  The same thing happened to my friend last year.... social worker started the assessment process and when they found out she had been sexually abused as a child, had depression and self harming as a result, then lots of counselling they decided she was "too damaged".  She is still having a hard time dealing with it ... especially as the person who abused her used to say to her that if she told anyone about the abuse she would never have any children.  She has returned to self harming (which she had previously got under control) as she feels that what her abuser said has now come true because she did disclose what he did to her.  It's so unfair the power that can be wielded and decisions made that are outwith your control.  Can feel how angry you are, more from what you didnt say than what you did say  .  Anger is a hard one to deal with eh .... I dont find it easy at all, I usually turn it in on myself too and become very self critical, negative and self harming (through getting totally smashed on alcohol).  I had a go on the punchbag but ended up giggling, I have got really small hands (even though I'm nearly 6ft  ) the gloves were massive on my hands and DH came to watch me punching.  He was in a fit of giggles as my first punch made the glove fly off and bop my cat (who was asleep) on the head   It did work though, I stopped feeling angry and felt like giggling instead.  I've found cycling is good for getting frustration out, especially going up hills ... I growl my way up the hill ... thankfully nobody has seen me  

I hope things get better for you honey .... I'm here for a chat any time you need one

Nic xx


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## Mamaji

Hiya

DH's birthday today, he has been soooo happy it has been lovely to see him smile   He was so cute I got him lots of his favourite sweets and a new jacket and jeans to wear when he does gigs (he plays guitar in a band).  He jumped up straight away, put his new clothes on ... jumped back into bed and started munching on his sweets with a gorgeous grin on his face "I'm 48 now I can eat all the sweets I want for breakfast" says he with 5 jelly babies in his mouth  

I made him a nice lunch and dinner and now he is sitting happy as punch with a glass of wine watching Rangers play footie on the tv.  Sometimes its the simple things in life that bring happiness eh ..... so nice to see him happy!!!!!!!!

I'm back to work tommorow, my stomach is churning already but trying to put my positive head on... going to have a bath, deep condition my hair, lay out my clothes for tommorow ...... feels like my first day at school .... all will be fine!


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## Rowan22

Hi Starbaby,

Poor cat! I'm not surprised your husband found it funny!
I hope you're doing OK at work today and not finding it too much of a strain and I hope your managers come up with a package that's helpful for you. 
Yes, the anger and self harm thing, mmm. I do think it's important that parents don't hit their kids for showing anger or having tantrums, as it gives a very strong message that anger itself is wrong. This can cause enormous suffering later on, as of course we can't just get rid of the emotion, it will keep coming back! If it's repressed, it comes back as depression or even physical illnesses. I happen to feel rather strongly about this from personal experience. In my case, as I have chronic illnesses, the self harm tends to take the form of not looking after my health properly. As I'm diabetic, it's not hard for me to give myself a sugar high that has more or less the same effect as taking drugs but of course, it's really, really not a good idea. It does stop me feeling very much, though. It's amazing how we're not suffering enough butwe feel the need to punish ourselves!
Hitting a punchbag or a cushion is a good idea but I prefer to solve problems rationally and there's nothing rational about anger. Unfortunately, I can't work out what to do about this childlessness and I am still no closer to any degree of 'acceptance' of a  childfree (what on earth is that?! Sounds like a term you'd use when you've finally got rid of the rats!) life than I've ever been.
I am now waiting for yet another useless period and I wish so much the cycle would just stop. As I'm not far off 50, this should be happening but it's not and in theory, I could keep cycling until 55 or so. It's an excruciating reminder of what my body hasn't done as well as being painful and exhausting in its own right.  How do you cope with yours?
Glad to see your husband had a good time. Quite right about the jelly babies! I like his thinking!

Rowanxx


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## Sam1971

Hi Ladies

Not been on here for a while as i have been away.

Nic- I am so sorry huni . You really have been through an awful time past and present.
I hope work is not too painful for you and you are managing to hang in there. You are one courageous lady and i hope that one day you will feel a sense of peace with life and on whatever path it ends up taking you . I hope things go well too for your DH as im sure you can do with any added pressure at the minute.

I have my second counselling session this afternoon . not really sure how i felt about the first one other than that how is this going to help me?  It wont give me a baby after all will it . But i guess i have to follow it through and maybe i was expecting too much.

Rowan big   to you too.The pain is just ongoing isn't it.

Much love and   to everyone
Sam xxxxxxxxx


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## Mamaji

Hiya

Rowan .. totally agree with you re unresolved emotion turning into chronic pain .. also with how wrong it is for parents to prevent a child from naturally expressing frustration, temper, anger ... it's a healthy emotion ... not one that should be squashed by other people who want to have power/control over a vulnerable child!!!     Self harm is sometimes just a way to regain the control that others have taken from you eh!!!  You say that you prefer to resolve things by being rational and that anger is not rational. Mmmm it's weird but what I've realised over the years is that once I've allowed myself to be angry ... really feeling it then afterwards there is an intensely calm feeling that comes which allows me to be rational.  I sometimes write out all my anger.... grab a pen when it comes over you and just write without thinking dont think about spelling or your writing ... its only you that will see it and just scrawl it all out.  It really helps me as I used to be a secretary I can type at the speed my thoughts run at so can type it all out really fast - it feels releasing but also in a controlled way.  I get afraid of anger when it feels out of control as I have experienced the anger of other people being targetted at me and thats difficult, sounds like you have too... I almost want to be able to control my own anger.  My counsellor said that anger can be like letting the steam out of a pressure cooker very slowly it doesnt have to be explosive it can just hiss gradually.

You mentioned your periods ... they are never easy hun ... am due any day ... it always unleashes all sorts of emotions.  I dunno the answer to that one. wish they would just go away fully then no more reminder of useless eggs!!!!

Sam: Hiya honey!!!!!! Long time no speak   I missed you   .  I saw your other thread asking if counselling works.  I think i definately does ... but it is by no means easy.  I've been through counselling before after I was attacked as a teenager and I really dont think I would be alive if I had not had it!  I had huge suicidal feelings when all the emotions came up and without someone to unload the feelings on ... I think they would have overwhelmed me.  The rage I felt towards the person who hurt me was being turned inward and turning into self hatred, self harm (used to scratch myself til I bled with paperclips).  However before I got to the emotions I found that i could reel off thoughts like a shopping list without feeling anything.  I would come away from the session thinking what was the point .. has that done any good.. why dont I feel any different.  Sometimes its about the connection with the counsellor.  Try to stick with it honey... it must be really hard going back to where you had treatment.  Doyou feel any connection with the counsellor?  For me I go along tocounselling, cry a lot, rage a lot, sit staring into space... but a few days later it feels like I have removed a layer of pain... slowly slowly slowly.  I think in the long run it will be worth it ... I sooo hope it works out for you angel .. you are a beautiful person xxxxx

Well I started back work on Wednesday - had a meeting with my manager, senior manager and hr manager to discuss what work I would do, days I would work etc.  I didnt sleep at all the night before, got up in the morning like a half shut knife... my anti-depressants leave me a bit spaced out for about 2 hours after I take them so I took them at 5am so that by the time I got up for work at 7.30 I would hopefully be more alert.  I was like a wee zombie as I didnt sleep at all and was so nervous.  DH was an angel and drove me in for the meeting and insisted on waiting in the car park for me.  The meeting went ok .. they told me what work they had set aside for me and asked me the question I thought they would "do you feel ready to come back".  Well I couldnt very well tell them the full truth which is I dont give a damn about work, I have no interest, I am afraid I will continue to have panic attacks in front of people and feel mortified.  didnt say any of that ... I just felt so flatline inside .. I just quietly said "I have to come back".  I didnt fake enthusiasm about the work they had set me instead I just nodded my head and agreed with them.  They kept saying that I was being really quiet .... the tears were constantly in my throat I was almost scared to speak as I felt they would come flooding out!!!

I went into work for first day on Thursday and then again on Friday.  It was soooo hard!!! My manager had initial meeting with me then had to take a phone call so asked me to wait outside her room.  There were a few offices either side of me with people in them ... one woman started asking the other what she was going to have "is it a boy or a girl... when is your next scan" aaaaah I wanted to bolt so fast but couldnt go anywhere.  The conversation went on "I hope its a girl ... dont like boys ... dont think I will want it fully if its a boy"  I started shaking and then flew into a panic attack .... only in the building 20 minutes and panic setting in already!!!!!  It was sinking in that  would probably run into conversations like that a lot and that I had to find a strategy to handle it ... what I really wanted to do was run into the room with the stupid c*w that "doesnt like boys" and scream at her "you're feckin  lucky you can have a baby you selfish bi**h"  I managed to calm the panic attack down before my manager came to get me ... didnt let on to her ... my stupid pride giving me a hard time!!!  I am usually such a capable person ...feels really strange to feel so inadequate    For most of the time on Thursday every time I tried to go into a room I would have a panic attack.  I went down to reception to look at a diary and there were about 5 people there ... cue another panic attack.  It got so bad I had to take myself outside and walk round the block with the tears flowing... I felt soooo stupid!!The next day I had to pick something up from the carehome I work in ... it took me 3 attempts to walk through the gate... got in the front door and had panic attack as soon as I sat down at my desk.  It made me remember just how miserable I had been day in day out going to work last year ...the daily pattern was wake up crying ... drive into work crying... get to work go to toilet to prevent crying... see a resident's grandchildren cue crying... drive home crying the whole way ... get home see DH more crying ... go to bed more crying ...dream about babies ... wake up middle of the night crying .. then start all over again.  I kept that up for 3 months hiding it from everyone ... dunno how I did it!!! My manager told me that one of the staff had had a miscarriage, that she was currently off work and had been for 2 months but was planning to return next wk.  I started to feel even more inadequate.. the poor woman was 24 wks pregnant... had lost a real baby and is strong enough to return after two months.  I havent lost a real baby ... just a baby that I dreamed I would have and I have been off for 4 months ... felt so pathetic, inadequate, useless, weak    I felt pain for the woman but at same the same time... guilty as I thought she will be able to try again... I cant ever try... felt so selfish but at the same time felt so much pain inside me.  Then my manager said "oh yeh and something else for you to know is that R*** is 5 month pregnant and she is on shift today".  Cue another panic attack and tears.  However I managed to pull it together and eventually had a walk round the home with my manager and said hello to the residents and staff - it was soooo hard ... I felt so exposed!!!  I met the pregnant woman and managed to say hello to her from a distance.  It hurt so much.... I realised that my panic attacks, emotional responses are probably going to appear out of nowhere whilst at work ... moreso because there is a pregnant woman there who I will see most days!!  The staff had been told that I was off with glandular fever so maintain my privacy.  I took the decision to ask my manager to sayto the staff that I am still recovering from glandular fever but that whilst I was off I had tests done and have found out that I can't have children, am having anxiety attacks and can be more emotional than normal.  I thought that if I told them and it happens one day that I burst into tears ... then there wont be all the questions and I wont feel so much pressure to apppear "normal or happy".

I was totally exhausted after the two days... it was nice to be able to rest in bed today.  Being at work has made me realise that I definately dont want to be there!!!  I am going to continue with counselling to get stronger then look into options for fostering.... DH and me have been talking a lot about it and I desperately want to have children in my life and also dont want to waste the 10 years + experience I have in care - fostering would fulfill both, it can be my job - I've always thought that being a mum was my true vocation ... so why not make it my career!!  I would be involved in careplanning for any children, involved with multi-disciplinary team etc... but at the same time and most importantly ... being able to give love, a feeling of safety, security and a fun life for children  

This road is sooo hard to walk but I am bl**dy well going to do it!!!

love to all

Nic xx


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## Rowan22

Hi Nic,

I think you have been incredibly brave to go to work and carry on as you've done. It's amazing that you've been able to keep going despite all those panic attacks and the stupid bit*h moaning about how much she didn't want a boy! I really don't think I could have handled that one, I think I would probably have run out of the building! You should give yourself a real pat on the back; you've done incredibly well!
Having to do two days in a row must have been so hard. I hope the arrangements your managers have made will help and I really hope you don't have to have too much to do with the colleague who's five months pg, you really don't need that!
I hope you enjoyed your day off, you deserved it!
Yes, I know exactly what you mean about that calmness that comes after anger and yes, I've been the victim of someone lashing out in anger, too and so I hate and fear the emotion. I'm not sure I'm capable of letting it out in little bits, there's so much anger inside me, about the illnesses and everything as well as IF, that I think if it goes it will be like a volcano erupting! Like you, I tend to turn it on myself instead and I have been depressed in the past. 
What I can't understand even now is why on earth we keep having periods if the other side of the machinery just doesn't work anymore. It seems utterly pointless. The female body is a strange thing and if there is a God, he is definitely male!
Good for you for starting to think ahead! I couldn't foster, personally, as the birth family is always around and you never have parental responsibility. I have thought of adoption but we've been rejected several times. This in itself makes me angry, as you can imagine. We've never broken any laws, we're solvent (even if only just), we work, we don't do drugs, and we've professional experience working with children but the agencies rejected us because of my lousy health and my dh's problems with stress. Each rejection was like a knife blow to the heart and I can't try anymore. When we got the last one, I just got on my bike and tore through the streets, desperate to get rid of the intensity of the feelings, so I know what it's like to have to race out of a building crying. 
You are definitely thinking ahead, though and that's excellent! 
Sam, I've had counselling in the past. I would say it definitely works but I think it's a long process and it can be very painful, as layer after layer is laid bare. You need support if you're going through it. It's also absolutely exhausting, I found and you do have to like and trust the counsellor. After all, you're telling this comparative stranger some very personal and painful things about yourself. You also need to know this person can help you contain powerful emotions. I've been in counselling too many times when the feelings have really exploded and the counsellor has been on holiday or something. It does happen. Something like meditation can help, too.
This road is very hard, as you say, Nic. It's certainly not one I ever wanted to walk and there are so many times when I just wish all the feelings would stop and I could switch off my hormones or whatever's causing all this. Just listening to my neighbour's little boy playing in the garden feels like torture. 
Hope you're having a good weekend.

Rowanxx


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## Mamaji

Hiya Rowan, Imogenautumn, Sam and anyone else  

Can hardly contain myself!!!!!!!!!!!! I went to see my sister on Monday and held her baby ...... for the first time all I felt was love for her.... I kept pausing and almost looking over my shoulder ... thinking "where is it.... this is strange... I am having nice feelings ... no stabbing feelings of grief in my heart ... just love".  I sat and Lillie and me stared at each other for about ten minutes ... she had the most gentle expression on her face and I had this amazing feeling of peace inside me.  I tell you for a minute I thought someone else had taken over my body   ... feelings of love, peace and calm whilst holding a baby ... whilst on my period ..... miracles do happen ladies    I got home and DH commented on my smiling face ... I was so proud of myself and told him about my special time with Lillie.

Then my period really kicked in fully and had a wee   but that's normal just hormones everywhere.  I was lying holding onto my tummy comforting it ... I closed my eyes and asked myself what I most want.  The word that kept going round on a loop was "a family".  For about half an hour I had this real sense of peace once the tears had gone, left stroking my tummy and a sense of acceptance that I wont have my own baby and there is nothing I can do to change it... (except maybe a fluke lottery win   )  Then an even calmer feeling came over me as I started to feel the sense of the steps I could take to bring children into my life.  The next thing I was on the computer emailing a note of interest to a fostering agency ... I filled in the form and let DH see what I had done.  I giggled saying "I've completed it but dont know if I'm going to send it .... what if this feeling of calm goes away and I go back to feeling awful again?"  The next thing DH leaned over and pressed SEND.... and it was gone.  Well that was me I needed a bottle of rose wine to calm me down I went so hyper and exciteable and nervous and gibbering a hundred miles an hour    DH and I stayed up until 4.30 in the morning talking ... with more rose wine ......  When we got up in the morning we saw lots of bits of paper on the floor - we had written lots of ideas and plans .... the house was being sold, we had found an area we could move to where we could get a bigger house with a smaller mortgage .... we had decided I would definately apply to be a foster carer for two children (siblings if possible) for permanent fostering ... the fostering agency are training up all their staff with care qualifications, I have adult care qualifications but nothing for children ... an opportunity to have children and develop a different career!!! We were reading all our plans... amazed at how detailed they were considering how much wine we had   the next thing the phone went ... the Fostering Agency.  I started running around squealing like an excited 2 year old scared to pick up the phone.  DH to the rescue again ... love him so much... he answered the phone and calmly said "I'll just go and get my wife to speak to you".  Then calmness came over me again and I spoke to the woman on the phone for about 45 minutes answering her initial questions.  The more I spoke and listened to her the more the exciteable butterflies started in my stomach.  She explained that the permanence service is new and is responding to a new for siblings to find a "forever family".  It is for children who have a lot of behavioural issues, may have had several failed placements or for whom adoption is not an option as there is still minimal contact with some family members.  Once the children are placed with a family, then they are with you for the rest of the time they are in care ... with an option (if it becomes appropriate) to adopt them.  The agency has got a huge support network for the children, therapists, educational workers, health visitors and they said that as there is no respite for permanent carers then they would do a mini assessment on named family members who we would want to help us with babysitting and they would get paid as respite carers.  So we are waiting on a pack being sent out should arrive tommorow     

I'm hoping that this is the beginning of  the process of getting the old me back again    I went into work today ... no panic attacks, a little anxiety but nothing huge.  I met with my manager and the calm feeling came over me again.. I could sense inside me that we have truly started a new chapter ....... I came home tonight and scooped up the two cats for a cuddle, gave DH a big   and told him how calm I have been all day... I'm almost scared to say it out loud ... but I do believe I felt happy moments today!!!!!!!  Woohoo bring it on!!!! If I wake up tommorow and feel the same then great.. if I wake up tommorow and feel different .. then that will be okay too ... small steps, turn into big steps, turn into huge leaps, turn into climbing a mountain!!!!!  Sending out all these happy, calm, joyous feelings to everyone   ... here's to more happy days


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## Sam1971

Hi Nic/Rowan and Imogenautumn

I hope you are all okay 

Nic sweetie - missed you too .

Oh Nic i didn't realise how bad it had been for you in the past . It sounds horrific and my heart goes out to you for all you had to endure then and now . You were so brave goung back to work and should be so proud of yourself and the way you handled things.I am so happy for you that you have taken your fisrt step towards the rest of your life . Small steps and one day at a time Of course you will have setbacks but you can't do anymore than you already are and you will make fantastic foster parents one day i'm absolutely  sure of it. 
I will continue with the counselling i think but i need to find myself another one as i can't keep going back there . I'm not too sure about the counsellor anyway as there seems to be quite a few awkward silences when i have finished speaking/crying and she just looks at me but doesn't really say anything . Is that normal? 
I have just joined the 'More to Life' website today. Is anyone else on there? Not feeling great at the minute   i have 3 cousins who are pregnant and an old friend/work colleague has just announced on face book that she is too . Why does it just feel that all around you everyone is moving forward with their life whilst i am stood still?I can't even bear to talk about any of the pregnancies with the rest of my family and haven't even congratulated them and that just makes me feel like such a horrible person . I just wish sometimes i had never wanted children and then this would'nt even be an issue.

Rowan - Thats so sad that 2 people who are willing and more than able to give a loving and stable home to a child that doesn't have one keeps being rejected . Its just so wrong and no wonder there are so many children left in care.I really hope you have other agencies that you can try and that they recognise what wonderful parents you would be 

When i think back to my twenties with my whole future ahead of me i was going to meet an amazing man and we were going to have amazing children together as that was the road i always wanted to be on and always assumed i would be on. How wrong can you be eh? And its just so hard to escape the pain as there are reminders every minute of every day 

Wishing you all lots of sunshine at the weekend. 

Love always
Samxxxxxxxxxxx


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## gizmo72

Hi starbaby
Reading your post has put tears in my eyes.
I had my amh test though on Friday it was terrible.
I really know how your feeling I to have an invisible hole in my heart.
You say you got a kitten,ive got 4cats &they are so
comforting when I'm upset,they seem to know,yes I 
know that sounds crazy but it's true.Never give up hope,
I've read some amazing stories on here
Take care 
Jo


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## Mamaji

I was at counselling the other day and was telling her about reading other women's experiences on FF.  I started telling her about lots of women receiving an AMH of 3.6 and below and that when reading their stories my heart started hurting for them and I imagined surrounding them in a huge pink bubble of love to take away the pain.  My counsellor paused for what felt like ages.... then she said "do you think the women feel devastated when they realise that they are losing or have lost their fertility" ... "yes" I nodded.  "do you think they feel intense grief at the loss of the baby or babies they always thought they would have" ... "yes" I nodded (with tears filling my eyes).  "do you think they feel alone and lost and empty" .... I couldnt speak .... there were huge hot tears running down my cheeks ... "what is your AMH" .... "3.6 last October"...."you are one of those women Nicola .... you understand their pain"..... I thought my heart was going to break!!!  It was as if I had forgotten or chosen to push away the realisation that this is the situation I am in.  The empathy I feel for other women is real, tangible ... when she asked me to sense empathy for myself I felt an empty hole ... but at the pitt of the hole was anger, rage, self hatred, inadequacy.  I just kept repeating over and over again in between sobbing "No ... that's me too!"  It was like a brick wall hitting me over and over again .. like being punched over and over again with a voice over saying "ha ha ha AMH 3.6 you f*****g loser, no eggs, inadequate....never be a natural mother ... loser... loser... loser".  

I started screaming ... the pain was so bad inside me ... it was like the reality truly hit home  ...... no baby ... no baby ...... no baby.  The session ended and I came home feeling like I had just run a marathon and slept for two hours.  That was yesterday .........

I cant run away from it any more. ....... so I am going to imagine that I am saying this out loud to someone to make it real - even though we are in cyberspace!!  My name is Nicola, I am almost 39.  I have always wanted children ever since the day my sister was born when I was 3 years old.  I have a husband that I love with all my heart and who loves me.  I have two step children who both have children.  I don't have any money, my husband has had a vasectomy and my AMH is 3.6 with only 5 follicles seen on antral follicle count..... we dont qualify for funding, we cant afford treatment ... I accept that I wont ever have my own biological baby. I am a kind, sensitive, caring woman who has endless amounts of love to give to other people.  I am a manager of a care home for vulnerable elderly people with dementia, I have two beautiful cats who fill my life with love,  I am a spiritual person who believes that life brings us hard lessons in order to achieve greater things, I am a step mum to two adult children, I am a step gran to 6 beautiful children, I am an aunty to two beautiful nieces, I am a wife, I am a sister, I am an aunty, I am a daughter, I am a cousin, I am a good friend, I am a colleague, I am fun, I am creative, I like chocolate, |I make really good lentil soup, I love chopping vegetables, I love holidays to India, my friends are deeply important to me, family life is important to me, I love a long bath with candles, wine and chocolate, I love cheesy 80's music, I used to think I would always marry George Michael..... Well I didnt but I did marry someone called Michael..... I AM MORE THAN MY INFERTILITY  I am ME!!!!!!! From this moment on I bl***y well refuse to be defined by by feckin AMH levels or lack or eggs.  Instead I will be defined by what I have to give in life... I am not useless, I am not worthless, I am not a waste of space, I refuse to hate other people for being able to give the gift of life, it is nobody's fault ... especially not my own that I am in the position of not being able to conceive a child.  I accept that for whatever reason ... life has other plans for me.. I am open to whatever those plans may be.. my heart is open and at the same time hurting... I will no longer judge the pain that I feel... I will be gentle with myself, non judgemental... I will allow myself to spend quality time with my grandchildren and nieces without fear of the pain overwhelming me.  I allow myself to experience pain and happiness.  I will learn to love this path that I am on ... whatever happens....... sending endless amounts of love out to all other women on this journey .... I think we are like trees in 100 mile an hour winds .... the wind may try to blow us down ... but our roots are strong and firmly planted.. we shall not break ... we shall continue to grow and reach towards the sun, the sky, the stars 

Nicola xxx


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## Mamaji

Hiya!!!!

I have just read through all my posts from when I started posting in January until today and have had a very satisfying cry of pride to myself     I remember how I felt in each of them, I remember thinking that I didnt want to be alive any more, that I had no identity, that the pain would never stop, that my skin and heart felt so raw, that the sight/sound of children felt like a physical blow to my body, that the sight/sound of parents being impatient with their children would fill me with uncontrollable rage (mmmm that one is still there and quite right too  ), I remember hating my DH, thinking we should part, I remember feeling resentment towards my sister for having two children as I was always the broody one.

And now ........ something momentous happened a few weeks ago!  It seems really strange but it was the love of a child that helped me to really begin to feel a deeper sense of acceptance about the fact I will never conceive a baby.  My step son split up with his girlfriend (he is 25 with a 18 month old son) and after being thrown out came to live with us.  He has problems with alcohol and anger issues.  After a week he asked if he could bring his son to stay for a week as he was missing him.  My initial thoughts were nooooooooo .... then I thought about the needs of Caleb .. he would be wondering where his daddy was ... so I agreed.  The first day was difficult (AF in the building!!) but the next day I woke up and standing beside my bed was this angelic wee face with his dummy in his mouth, huge big brown eyes looking at me.  He reached up to my face took his dummy out and said "uv ooo".  I was totally engulfed in love I thought my heart was going to pop.  He reached his arms up and was asking to come into bed beside me.  I lifted him up and cuddled him under the duvet, he was patting my chest and playing with my hair ... again the huge feeling of love and warmth ran through me.  I kept almost looking over my shoulder thinking ehem the pain and tears usually arrive at this point ..... but no they didnt come... the feeling of love got bigger and bigger.  I later gave him some breakfast and had a huge conversation with my step son about how precious his wee boy is, how he needs to be responsible, how he needs to really appreciate him and enjoy every moment with him, how he needs his daddy to play with him and have patience and praise him when he kicks his ball.  My step son was crying by the end of the conversation and admitting that he had not been a good daddy to Caleb.  I dont know where I got the strength from but I started to tell him that I could not have a baby, that I had been depressed for months, was on anti depressants and only just returned to work in May.  Again he started crying saying that he couldnt think of anyone who deserved to have a baby more than me .... cue my turn to cry .  But the tears were different, they didnt hurt, they were almost like acceptance of the painful journey that I have been on.

My step-son promised from that moment on that he would treasure his wee boy and learn how to be a proper daddy.  I taught him how to make scrambled eggs and how Caleb could help him as he likes stirring things.  I had a lump in my throat watching the two of them sitting at the table with Caleb beating eggs up with his child fork with a look of sheer concentration on his face - adorable ... then the look of pride on michael's face as he watched his son.

I went for counselling later that day and retold the story to her, I really felt like something huge had shifted inside me.  I guess I realised that although I wont have my own baby, the love and motherly instincts I have within me can be used in other ways for other people.  This might sound strange but I felt like for months I had been wondering around with a gaping hole in my heart, but the experience with Caleb and Michael seemed to seal the hole and from then on it has felt stronger and stronger.  My counsellor said that it seemed really significant to her that the love of a child had helped me to feel a deeper sense of love for myself and deeper sense of acceptance.

I really feel like the grief I have been feeling has moved on to the next stage ..... acceptance.  Every night after my session with my counsellor I had the same dream .... I was in the centre of a circle, on the outside of the circle were lots of children, various ages, all behaving in different ways.  Some were angry, some were silent with empty eyes, some were crying, some were behaving in a sexually inappropriate way for their age, some had broken arms/legs, some were covered in bruises, some were shaking as someone would on withdrawal from alcohol, some were rocking back and forth, some were self harming, some were screaming in pain...... they were all walking towards me saying "help me ... please".  Each night the dream woke me up and I would say out loud "I'm coming soon .... wait for me".  My DH started to become concerned until I told him what was happening in the dream.  After a week of the dream I realised that the dream was about me applying to become a foster carer, the children were showing me the various experiences that foster children may have had .... they were reaching out to me asking for help.  I woke up one morning, jumped in the shower and we sent off an email applying to be foster carers.  I had a wobble as soon as I had done it, lots of fear and insecurity which I guess is totally normal. 

Then we had our initial visit this week from two social workers.  We both felt completely sick .... but strangely with excitement ... not anxiety or fear  .  They phoned us on Thursday to say that they felt we had a huge amount of experience to offer through fostering and would not hesitate in supporting us to move to the next stage of application!!!!!!  OMG!!!!!!! Since then something inside me has become so calm, so peaceful, so accepting.  I have this real sense that the grief i have gone through has almost been like my training ground.  almost preparing us for the depth of feelings that any children we will look after may have also experienced.  I am even going to my niece's birthday party next week - 25 children of various ages will be there.... and rather than feel anxious, sick, sad ... I am looking forward to going ... I dont know what has happened but I feel soooo different.  I truly feel like this is what we are meant to do.  I know the children will never be mine ... but I have realised that I dont need them to .... what often hurt me in experiencing the grief was the sense that I had so much to give to a child and that it was going to go to waste .... and a huge sense of the injustice of it all.  Now ... I feel like I can use my natural nurturing instincts, but also the 11+ years experience of working in care.

I feel so humbled by the support I have received on FF.  I started off looking at the IVF/ICSI section of the site, bounced into the bit with info on TESE when we thought DH would have it done, then moved into poor response to learn more about AMH, then moved to a thread which had women who had decided to stop treatment - who then subsequently became pregnant or decided to continue with treatment, then joined the moving on thread and realised that it was possible to find the strength to move on, then put a tentative post on the fostering site after our initial contact with the Agency.  Now .... I feel like I am ready to move on again ...... I am ready to move over to the adoption/fostering section .... it feels so significant somehow ... moving on in a different way.

Thank you all so much for all the support you have given me, I really dont think I would be where I am without the inspiration and understanding of the women here.  Bless you all      .  I will continue to read posts on the moving on thread to hear how you all are and send you love ...... My thread is Foster Mummy in the Making ......

love you all ladies xxxxxxxxxx

Nic


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## Debs

Oh nic - to say im delighted for you is quite simply an understatement!

Im so very very happy that you have a) managed to create a bond between your stepson and his son (and will always be special in that relationship by the sound of it   ) and b) that you have found the strength to move forward and do something so wonderful.

I wish you well in your new exciting journey.

Love

Debs xxx


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## hobbitt

Hi, 

Reading yr post made me cry.  I've been trying for kids for almost 5 years, many of those years I was excluded from NHS funding not because my partner already had children but because my BMI was too high.  I lost a vast amount of weight eventually got on the waiting list only for my age to start to factor in the odds dropping.  I was diagnosed with endo a while back but was told for a long time that it was not a factor in my not conceiving I was just too fat.  Well now that is ruled out when I challenged them that endo was evident in my scans while undergoing treatment I've learned so much about my condition that I asked them outright and they've now agreed my eggs quality has been affected possibly due to my condition and my eggs are shot.  I feel angry and upset that they never listened to me when I was younger and now I am too old.  We have been told the only way we can get treatment is egg donation abroad, the costs are through the roof and as we experienced financial hardship paying for a private IVF last year I am scared we won't even get the opportunity to try.  

I am just coming to terms with the idea of not having my own baby and I had to go to a bbq at friends last night and myself and my partner were the only ones there without children.  I felt such a freak and totally alone, do u ever feel like that?

I think it is totally unfair of the NHS to exclude someone who has never had the opportunity of having a child, irrespective of the fact their partner has children.  It is so wrong unfortunately it is just an excuse for the NHS to refuse you so they don't have to pay for your treatment.

Having a pet always help as they are so affectionate but they are never going to close the hole in your heart as much as you love them.

How are u feeling these days hun?


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## Sam1971

Hi Nic

I am soooooooo pleased for you huni 

Sorry this is just a quick reply but didn't want to read and run.....You are such a lovely lady and your post is so inspirational!!....I know you will make a fantastic foster mum . Wishing you lots of luck with everything  Hopefully we will still see you on here and be able to share in your journey.

Much love xxxx

Hobbitt - big . We were in the same boat and didn't get any help as my husband already has a son and its so unfair the injustice of it all. As if we don't feel excluded enough .
We paid for 4/5 attempts and it is heartbreaking to still be paying for it now with no little bundle of joy to show for it .
I'm sending you lots of   and keep posting on here as it does help to get it off your chest and all the ladies are lovely.

Much love to you all
Sam


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## willswendy

Hi Nicola

I have never ever looked at this section before, but something made me look tonight!

Just wanted to say, you have been so honest with your feelings which takes a lot, but well done you, this is definately the right place, there are so many of us who can completely sympathise with you.  

Our adopted son has been with us for just over 6 weeks now, and you know what you dont have to give birth to be a mummy and be loved.  i think you will make an amazing foster mummy, and just wanted to wish you the best of luck   

Wendy xxx


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## Mamaji

Sorry me me me not been around for a while - life bl***y awful just now!!!!!!

Where to start  I have got two new temporary managers - one works mon-wed and the other thu, fri.  Both are impatient, set unreasonable targets, the one on a thu/fri is classic old style matron management - horrible institutional practice - she wants our elderly residents to all be in the lounge together because "it is easier to toilet them all at once and then take them all to lunch".  She has split mealtimes into two sections "the people who need fed first and then the others".  She is herding residents who prefer to spend quiet time alone in their room into the lounge.  Staff are being given strict routines to follow which are not achievable and are totally task orientated.  Residents are complaining that staff dont have time to spend with them as they are time driven.  It's just gross I avoided working in elderly care for years because I knew managers like these existed- now I am being managed by her and feel sick day in day out watching the institutional practice she is instigating.  When I challenged her about it last week she shouted at me and said "yes it is institutional and I will defend it to anyone who asks"  My practice is person centred, so we are complete opposites and I can see no way how to work with her.  Her answer to me was "I am the manager, you are the deputy you have no choice do as you are told".  Mmmmm all said with pointing fingers, doors being slammed, glaring eyes ...... bullying!  Which of course I start doubting ... blaming it on myself for being more sensitive due to depression... then I think about the reality ... sitting outside work in my car for 10 mins trying to persuade myself to go in .... going in and before I can put my car keys away she is barraging me with everything she thinks I have done wrong.  She has wound me into such a state of anxiety that I have started making mistakes, stupid errors with the rota which she points out with glee and in front of other people!

I tried to have an honest conversation with her last wk telling her that we were awaiting the outcome of disciplinary for my DH, difficulty I have in seeing a hugely pregnant employee every day etc.  Her response was "how do you think I feel?  I am running two care homes and I dont even want to be here"  so supportive ....... not!!  I started speaking to HR manager who supported me whilst I was off sick with depression and she has been great - told me that this woman has had numerous grievances in about her conduct and management style.  Was just about feeling able to take action when DH heard the other day that he has been sacked for gross misconduct and in the letter it mentions neglect and act of omis0sion.  Cue major panic inside me.... if a manager is sacked in Scotland then he will be reported to SSSC and potentially unable to register, as abuse is sited this could affect the fostering application - it clearly states that if any of us are involved in the abuse of adults/children then we would be automatically disqualified from applying.  DH has not abused anyone, he just happens to be the senior manager of a service which failed to administer medication correctly.  He is two layers above the person who made the error and it is him who is sacked for "failure to manage".  His letter says sacked with immediate effect... so no wages at the end of this month..  

My head is completely scrambled, not sleeping, fears he will be unable to get another job, fears the fostering will get stopped.... that any avenue to have a family will be stopped.... that my anxiety will cause me to make mistakes at work and make her bully me further ..... aaaaaaaah         every emotion all at once flying through me .... its too much.  I probably wont be able to afford to get to work!!!!!!  I feel so useless!!!!  DH is wandering around looking empty, the light has gone out in his eyes and I am not doing a good job of hiding my anxiety from him.

DH phoned the fostering agency today to tell them he had been sacked (we told them about the disciplinary in the initial meeting) they are phoning tommorow to see if we are allowed to continue    

I feel like I want to run away ..... and then yesterday I had to sit with the pregnant employee and her union rep discussing how we could support her to stay at work doing light duties for the duration of her pregnancy.  There she is sitting in a tight fitting white t shirt which outlined every single inch of her huge baby bump saying to me "you dont understand how difficult it is to be pregnant" mmmmm yup that's true and I never will get the opportunity ........ "being pregnant and having a family is more important to me than my job but you probably dont care about that" .... if only she knew  .  There I am sitting listening to her .... my eyes catching sight of her baby bump constantly, listening to all her pregnancy complications trying desperately hard not to cry whilst aiming to be a supportive manager coming up with suggestions re work activities that she could do.  Her rep said to me "you seem to really understand how important having a baby is to my client, it is unusual for me to see such genuine empathy"    again if only he knew!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry I am a miserable coo its all too much, AF just finished too so hormones everywhere, it's my nieces first birthday this saturday ... no money to buy her a present and dont know if strong enough to even go see her to give her a birthday cuddle .... feel like such a f*** up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Am going to read back and see posts I have missed .... sorry for me me me me me


Sending love to everyone xxxx Nic


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## hobbitt

aw Nic

So sorry things are so horrid for u.  Keeping everything crossed that your foster application will be able to carry on.  Seems so unfair.

Sending loads of hugs   and 
 that things start to pick up for u.  Yr post isn't me, me, me,  at all!!!  We all get to the end of our tether at times and want to scream and shout & rant and rage as to why life is so hard, that's why this forum is so good.  Hope it helped to let it out and I hope hubbie manages to find a new job soon.

luv hobbitt xx


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## Susan01

Nic,
It sounds like a truely awful time for you both. I hope things start to look better.


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## endosisterliz

oh my you have so many things going on for you at the moment, and why is it when people such as ourselves would make fabulous parents are scrutinized under a microscope to such an extent that it is nigh on impossible to become a 'parent' foster or adoptive! 

We were turned down 3 times initially due to my role (I work with vulnerable children and was deemed to be 'too close to home') was advised to go to another agency, then DH lost his job through redundancy (so again we were declined)  then finally we started again and I embarked on the treatment for Endo and was again advised it was not possible for us to adopt at the same time.  

Whilst I understand adoption is a huge commitment it annoys me that there is so much scrutiny.  If you have a baby naturally things go wrong, pregnancy doesnt stop because of redundancy or ill health!

I really really hope that the agency you are going through see sense and can support you both 

message me at any time xxx


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## Debs

Nic,

  to you for the terrible time you are having.

Now first of all lets talk about your job because having to go there and deal with bullying is an added stress you do not need.

HR person sounds like shes approachable - so approach!  Tell her you want to get this bullying sorted now or you want to raise a grievance against the manager.  If she has bullied in the past and is known for it then they have to take you seriously!

Keep a log of all the things she has said/done to you as a record to back up any claims you make against her.  Draft up a summary of how things have changed in the business and compare it to how it was done before.  When you do this make sure if you can see any "company benefit" you acknowledge it however be sure to put the patience perspective next to it counteracting  

If it gets too much then take some time out  

As for pg colleague - ask the HR manager to ask the manager to take over any meetings/assessments  

DH - is there any chance of appeal?  Could he approach them and ask them if they are going to report it then could they add something to say that he took action as soon as he was aware etc and explain the fostering situation?

With regard to fostering then I think they have got to be a bit flexible here.  Its not as though dh has done anything  himself and id argue that point to the hilt!  You are good people and the fact you both work in the care sector demonstrates this.  Have they come back to you yet?

Im not a HR person but have knowledge from previous jobs/university courses however we do have a work issues board which I am happy to give you access to should you require it    

Id just like to say that im glad there are people like you in your profession that do care - its something that comes up in the media time and time again and I Thank God for people like you who do put the patients first  

Things are all jumbled up atm but just sort each issue out at a time - remember you cant eat an elephant in one go - you have to just keep nibbling away  

Stay strong hun - pm me if I can be any further help or you want access to the work issue board  

Love

Debs xxx

ps:  if  you feel strong enough then go see your neice - she wont even notice you havent got her a present to open im sure just having a cuddle would put a smile on her face and her parents will understand A) if you havent got a present given the circumstanes and B) just if you dont feel up to going over


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## Mamaji

Aaaaah!!!!  How the **** is it possible to turn off the I wanna baby craving??  I want to press a secret button to stop my hormones!!!!!!!  I am due AF beginning of next wk, I have started to reduce my antidepressants from 40mg to 20mg daily and lo and behold the baby dreams, the cravings, the longing, the deep sadness, the sensation of the hole in my heart all starting to rear their ugly head again .... grrrr I thought I had it under control..... or was it just the happy pills switching off my emotional responses  We have got our social worker coming on 27 oct to start the fostering assessment, have done the 4 training sessions, my hubby has started converting our bedrooms to make the box room bigger ...... I should be happy ..... but I can feel this low pain in my stomach, like the sensation of someone crying in pain curled up in the foetal position.  When I touch my stomach I want to scream I wanna baby I wanna baby!!!!!!!  I feel awful if read a thread where someone has just had BFP with twins and my response was jealousy, angry thoughts followed by staring at the wall for half an hour rocking back and forth.  I dont want to go loopy again, I dont want to get depressed again, I want to be a good mum to foster children...... but I wanna baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I havent been on here for a long time, was trying to move forward. ...... but then it all raises its ugly head again ...... it will be a year on 26 oct since I got the results of my AMH .  Its strange


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## Mamaji

ooops I pressed the wrong button before i was finished.  It's strange the reaction that im having, it feels the same as remembering the date that someone died.  I have been remembering how I felt in the days running up the appointment to see the consultant, then going into the room and hearing the results, then having the antral follicle count which confirmed the amh result, then the sense that something inside me had died.  The counselling I had really helped but I really dont think the sadness will ever go....... I guess its about accepting that but its hard .... it is not how it was a year ago however, which must be a good thing, it doesnt feel like a raw wound anymore..... but it still hurts.

I have taken 26th off work as we have the social workers coming on 27th to start assesment for fostering - there is something strange about the fact we are starting the assessment practically the same day as the day last year we saw the consultant.  Its come full circle .......... think I need a good cry.....

I will have a read back to see what everyone has been up to .... sending you all lots of love and hugs

Nic xxx


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## Mamaji

I'm trying to giggle at this but at the same time there is a part of me crying inside.

I am on day 3 of AF, very heavy and painful, so hormones probably playing a part!! I saw my sister's two children yesterday (1 and 4).  I made cakes with the 4 year old, took them both to the park and had fun playing in the mud pretending to be Peppa Pig!  When I got home from the park my 1 year old niece was tired and wanted to cuddle up.  I snuggled her up to my chest and began rocking her back and forth, she let her body go floppy and I felt her melt into my chest.  About this time last year when I held her to my chest all I could feel was intense pain and grief, it was like being cut open without anaesthetic.  Lately when I hold her, it's a strange feeling but I will try to describe it.  It's almost like being a kangaroo and holding a baby joey in my pouch.  When I hold her it feels like she moulds into my heart .... it doesnt hurt like it used to ... it feels warm, loving, gentle, comforting, nurturing.  But also another feeling ... it is like I have been starving of hunger for years and when I hold her... I feel full up..... but I also have the feeling of not wanting to let her go.  I've felt this with my step grand-children too when they cuddle up to me .... an overwhelming feeling of love followed by me not wanting to ever let them go.  I worry about the feeling of not wanting to let them go, is this normal?  It is like a missing piece of the jigsaw inside me, when I feel the unconditional love of a child cuddling into me I feel complete, I feel normal, I feel maternal ..... then I remember that I wont ever give birth to my own child and the sadness returns.  

It's like it comes in cycles .. but with each cycle I know for sure that I am stronger.  with each cycle (usually my AF) I feel like I am letting go that bit more each time.  Until last night when I did something very strange!!!  My hubby and I had just gone to bed, he was exhausted and his eyes looked so sleepy and adorable.  He was lying on his side and I got this huge urge ... so I pulled his head to rest on my chest.  The next thing I noticed that I was shooshing him and patting his back like I had done with my niece earlier in the day    OMG!!!!  I was kissing the top of his head, patting his back and rocking his back and forth.  He was sooo exhausted that he didnt seem to notice and my shooshing put him to sleep    Once I noticed he was sleeping I continued shooshing him gently and patting his back .... I really thought I was losing the plot until the tears started falling down my cheeks and the intense sadness enveloped me.  The deep grief was rising from my belly, the tears were really silent ... which was good as hubby was snoring and dribbling on my chest .. he looked so adorable    I kept sensing my niece on my chest from earlier and then stroking my hubby's hair as he slept on my chest.  I kept willing him to stay asleep as I didnt quite know how I would explain it to him    Then I started singing gently to myself "Hush little baby dont you cry, mama's gonna sing you a lullaby".

I had a strange sense of calm come over me, I had thoughts of making a memory box for my baby that will never be.  I want to ask my mum to knit me a pair of mittens and bootees, I want to buy a first size baby grow, I want a first size baby nappy ... I want to gather things that I would have bought for my baby and wrap it up in a special box.  If we had been able to go ahead with treatment ... our baby would be 1 by now... we would be looking forward to our first christmas as a family.... I need to let my longed for little girl go.

OMG I have just read back what I have typed ... I sound nuts!!!! Honestly I'm not... am I? I'm blaming the hormones!!! Anyone else felt anything like this or am I indeed going a bit loopy??


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## Tulipwishes

I am so sorry you are feeling like this, You will in time have good moments and maybe other times something will trigger off those sad feelings again

For me I have had a lot of times when I have felt great and accepted that I can only have a child by adoption, which I have in my daughter.
But all of those feelings have reared it's ugly head again since my brother and sister in law had their 3rd child in July. It does not help that my daughter keeps commenting that when she is older she is going to go and live with her birth parents, I dont know if she ever will or not. it also does not help that every time I speak to my mum she comments on how lovely the new baby is, which he is, but even so it breaks my heart that little bit more.

Inside I feel so heart boken, I feel as though there is a gaping hole in my heart for the baby I could never have, even though I have been putting on a happy face and make all of the right comments regarding babies.

I am hoping to try embryo adoption but  , but my OH has just had a slanging match with me saying I got what I wanted in my daughter and I should be happy now. But no matter how much I love my daughter I am still upset for what I cant have that many women take for granted. My partner has three children from a previous relationship so will never know how I feel, not in the way that the ladies here will, life is so unfair.

Take things a day at a time, I find that helps, it must be all a part of a grieving process


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## summer104

Hello 
I really do not know we're to start me and my dp have been trying ttc for years we have been through the massive rollercoaster of ivf with bfn's. So we have both been coming to terms with never having a child of our own. I sort of blocked it out for a few months but over the last month it's been so difficult. I feel so depressed I want to cry all the time. A couple of weeks ago my dp father was diagnosed with prostate cancer which is horrid and I know he can't stop thinking about it but he seemed really distant from me. So I sat down and asked him what else was on his mind he told me he has been thinking about kids and wether or not he can see his life without them. I feel worthless and useless that I can't give him what he clearly wants. He says he changes his mind all the time and may feel differently next week next month but all I keep seeing and thinking is how happy he would be to be a dad. And I can't give him that. I really don't know what to do its hard enough seeing pregnant people hearing of people having babies seeing babies on the telly etc. yet I think I'm going to loose the person I love most in life who has been my rock for the past 9 years. I don't know what to do should I let him go now rather than later even though it will break my heart even further than it is already. I really have no one who understands to talk too. Sorry for going on  some advice from you lovely people would be great !!!!!!!


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## Tulipwishes

Summer, I got tears in my eyes reading your post because I can feel the heartbreak in your post.

I don't really know what to say, except have you thought about counselling for you both, your DP has a lot on his mind with what his dad is going through, so maybe it would help there and then he can clear his head if that's possible so that you can both think about the future and where to go from there.

I'm sending you a cyber hug  , I just wish that I could be of more help.

Boleyn xx


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## summer104

Thank you Boleyn 
I have thought about counselling over the last few days. I will talk to dp this evening and see how he feels about it. But I do agree it would be a good idea we have nothing to loose by giving it ago hey. 

My heart is breaking at the moment and I hate feeling like this breaking down in tears all the time like a mad woman lol. 
Thanks for your post it's really nice to know there are other people out there that understand x x


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