# New to Forum...Dr Zhai initial appointment- What to expect?! ~



## Secret Broody (Jan 5, 2008)

Beautiful Ladies!!! And a Happy New Year 

I'm so happy to be a part of a forum which has all the support, guidance and advice i'll ever need. My frustrations have been eased very slighty i say as reading others messages, my worries are nowhere near some- my journey is just beginning...

Anyhooo, I'm 34 (35 in 2 days!!! ) and have been ttc for almost a year to no avail  . I went to see my   who put me through the blood tests and scans etc and DH at 38 was given Semen Analysis etc and have now ticked the box of the 'unexplained fertility' variety even though I've had 2 m/c. I've now been transferred to the Hammersmith Hospital, but will change to the ARGC due to research and other comments on this forum. Yes yes I know it's tres expensive but hoping i can get it on NHS? I read that they do this if the fees are agreed? possibly for another thread BUT...

I also found posts on acupuncture and someone mentioned Dr Zhai and The London Acupuncture Clinic/Daniel Elliott which came highly reccommeded. I have chosen Dr Zhai and called a couple days ago, whereby the receptionist wanted to send me info and advised that there was a 3 week waiting list to get an appointment. I understood that the costs were a bit more expensive and asked for a breakdown of key costs which i didn't nearly faint to- just deeply swallowed. After a review and staring at the website for a few hours, I called today and they had an appointment a week today! (monday), and i've gone very nervous and getting serious stomach cramps  at the thought, like it's first date!...I'm hoping this can kick my fertility in shape as I have a short luteal phase/irregular/painful periods and if not when i have an appointment with ARGC I would be able to continue during my treatments, whatever that will be.

I wanted to ask (eventually) as to what am I to expect from Dr Zhai on my initial and subsequent visits? I wanted to start a new thread on Dr Zhai as some of them are few years old.


Your comments are deeply appreciated  

Thank you,

Michelle


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## bottleofwater (Jun 19, 2007)

Hi Michelle on your first appointement, you will ask questions and you will need to get a blood test (not done at the clinic) to show your full bloods. They don't start treatment until they get the results. Yes it is expensive, it does seem to kick ovulation into shape and balance the body a bit.  So no need to be nervous on first appointment.

THe acupuncture will be next visit and after you start herbal teas, acupuncture is very relaxing and you can feel the effects straight away.  They also use a machine to vibrate the needles.  My gyno recommended me so that was from a conventional medicine person.

Good luckx


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Hi & welcome to FF 

Why not post a little bit about yourself on the Introductions board and then you will be able to "meet" other new members and also we will be able to point you in the right direction and give you more relevant information...

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=10.0

You mention about having NHS treatment at ARGC...I'm not sure about this. You would need to speak with your local PCT (primary care trust) as some may agree whilst others may not...it's a real postcode lottery and different PCTs will have varying criteria.

Have you had your initial appointment at Hammersmith yet ? There are also waiting lists for NHS treatment...we live in SE London and the waiting list was just over 2 years...we were put on waiting list in April 2005 when I was 36...and finally had our first nhs funded IVF in September 2007 (when I was 3...we'd paid privately whilst waiting.

Also, as you've not been ttc for a year yet and are classed as unexplained, perhaps you're jumping the gum a little regards having IVF....there are other forms of fertility treatment which you may be advised are better initial options eg clomid or IUI...I would wait to discuss all of this with your consultant.

It can take a perfectly healthy couple up to a year to conceive, sometimes up to 2, so it is still fairly early days regards investigations, testing and options for you at the moment...although I know this doesn't help when you just want a baby ! 

There is a board for Unexplained...

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=111.0

There is also a separate board for ladies having treatment at Hammersmith but this is mainly for those going through IVF/ICSI as on IVF board but there is also ARGC which you may find helpful.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=210.0

Try to take one step at a time, although you're classed as unexplained (which must be incredibly frustrating), IVF is certainly not the first and only option for you....I would consider other treatments before embarking on the stressful and expensive emotional roller coaster which is IVF....we'd been ttc for 3 years (will be 5 yrs this year) before we started IVF...and I'd also had 2 early miscarriages conceived naturally (and have had 2 through treatment as well) 

Anyway, happy birthday for tomorrow  (a fellow Capricorn...I had my 39th on Saturday  )

Good luck and take care 
Natasha


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## Secret Broody (Jan 5, 2008)

Many thanks for your responses,

I'm now looking forward to my treatment slightly more prepared!

I had always read about postcode lottery but not for one minute did i thing it would involve treatment for myself.. it just goes to show eh? Funnily enough my doctor called today to say that she was unaware that ARGC referred NHS patients and would have to review. I then called ARGC directly again and called my GP to confirm that this was still the case. It was also confirmed on the HFEA website that they do this. I'll see what happens in a few days...

I haven't had my initial consultation as yet and honestly HH is way out of my way to get to and prefer to have a clinic within the city/West End as my DH and I works close to there. HH is difficult to get to unless you're driving. This factor is in addition to the fact that the ARGC has an overwhelming sucess rate. I wanted to try to get the clinic right first time whether its for a series of tx/drugs or IVF/ICI...etc

I can't believe there was a 2 year waiting list in your area-I'm curious to know as to how long it is for the borough of Hammersmith & Fulham where i reside?

I understand from your perspective that it may seem premature considering the amount of experience you've had with this but at 35, I'm already placed in a 'higher risk category' than if I was younger/under 34. I also had 5 operations years ago which the doctor advised then at the age of 28 that it would be difficult to conceive without help as I had been operated on so many times around the lower abdomen.

I'm willing to try anything right now and from what i've read on these forums, IVF isn't necessarily as you so say the only option. I hadn't realised how stressful it is and it's a whole new world which if I had an option wish to leave undiscovered.

Thank you for your guidance and I have reviewed all the posts you've mentioned. I had posted similar question there and have had feedback also.

I'm so sorry to hear of your losses  We capricorns are a penchant for patience, but I commend you and take my hat off for waiting 5 years ttc...Stay positive   

*BottleofWater*- were the treatments successful? How long were you treated for and/or are you continuing?

Thank you for you birthday wishes, I hope you had a good one to remember!!

Good Luck to us all 

Secret Broody xx


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## bottleofwater (Jun 19, 2007)

Hi Secret Broody

I did get pregnant but had a missed miscarriage, that was after two months, I can't say if it were the treatment or not since I also got pregnant and had a misscarriage in April and previous to that Ocotber. For me I think it helps more with ovulation since I have PCOS and can have annovulation.  I did the month I got pregnant have ultrasounds to track ovulation and I got nice big follies and thick lining where two months previous I had thin lining after my miscarriage.  Good luckx


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## ☼♥ Minxy ♥☼ © (Jan 13, 2005)

Secret Broody said:


> I understand from your perspective that it may seem premature considering the amount of experience you've had with this but at 35, I'm already placed in a 'higher risk category' than if I was younger/under 34. I also had 5 operations years ago which the doctor advised then at the age of 28 that it would be difficult to conceive without help as I had been operated on so many times around the lower abdomen.
> 
> I'm willing to try anything right now and from what i've read on these forums, IVF isn't necessarily as you so say the only option. I hadn't realised how stressful it is and it's a whole new world which if I had an option wish to leave undiscovered.
> 
> ...


Hi again

I, like you, was 34 when we started ttc (DP was 28 & has no "problems") and we were told that had to ttc for at least a year before GP would refer us to fertility consultant, despite my age and known issues effecting my fertility...we actually didn't get to see consultant until I was 36 (and I was actually pregnant although didn't realise it but sadly had early mc).

I have had diagnosed severe (stage 4) endo and dense adhesions, along with damaged, sluggish tubes (which is why IUI never an option) since I was 19 and was told at the time that I may not conceive naturally....I have conceived 5 times though (1 termination at 21 and 4 early mc/chemical pregs  ). On top of that I have a bicornuate/septate uterus and have had operations to correct this....plus had uterine adhesions, uterine polyps and a fibroid removed from outer side of my womb...I've had 5 laparoscopies and dyes, 5 hysteroscopies, 1 cystoscopy and an HSG (hysterosalpingogram)...and sadly know that I will have to have more laps and hysteroscopies in the future because no cure for endo...... And if that wasn't enough, I've been diagnosed with several blood clotting disorders and raised natural killer cells (autoimmune disorder) diagnosed following the 2 naturally conceived early miscarriages. I am classed as high risk for ectopic (because of "dodgy" tubes) and miscarriage/pre-term birth (because of bicornuate/septate uterus, blood clotting and raised nk cell issues).....BUT despite all these knocks against us, we KNOW we will have a baby of our own....just taking a little longer than we thought...if we weren't positive then we would've given up a very long time ago ! 

....So I can completely understand & empathise with how you're feeling but as you're only just starting out with investigations & have not yet had your initial appointment, I would put together a list of all your questions and concerns and see what your options are, as your consultant (at whichever hospital you choose!) will be able to offer you choices based on your medical history. 

As for waiting lists in your area, as mentioned in previous post, you need to contact your local PCT to find out their criteria. A 2 year wait for NHS IVF/ICSI is fairly common I'm afraid  Some areas may be less but others may be even longer...and as I say, each has particular criteria that they require eg BMI below 30, minimum/maximum age, been ttc for X many years, been together as a couple for X many years etc etc...it all varies.

With regards to acupuncture...I've been having acupuncture on/off for around 2 and half years now. I also have ad hoc reflexology and am considering starting cranial osteopathy before we start our next IVF in March. I've certainly found acupuncture (and reflexology) to relax and de-stress me, if nothing else ! I don't see Dr Zhai or Daniel Elliott for acupuncture but I do see a registered practitioner with sound knowledge of fertility issues and IVF (he actually teaches it at degree level so I'm very comfortable with him). I also use a couple of hypnotherapy cd's, specifically for fertility and IVF.....

Take everything one step at a time......and fingers crossed 2008 brings you a BFP  

Good luck
Natasha

*PS....I'm moving your post to Introductions board (from Acupuncture sub-board) as I feel it's probably a better place for it as your original post and queries are not specifically related to Complementary Therapy/Acupuncture...I think you'll get a better response on Introductions and be able to "meet" other new members in similar position to you *


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## emsy25 (Mar 18, 2005)

Hi,

Just wanted to say hello and welcome.

Emma
x x x x


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## DizziSquirrel (Feb 15, 2005)

& Welcome to FF  Secret Broody  
Natasha has given you some great links and advice already so I will just welcome you to the Intro board, and wish you good luck!
I also love the username and the year of the rat positivity! I too was born in th eyear of the Rat and am hoping for a good year!

The direct links you have been left are to boards here on FF - that you may or may not have found, I encourage you to post in these areas to build friendships and support from members who really do have an understanding of your situation, ive just one or two to add 

Starting out & Diagnosis ~
CLICK HERE

Meanings ~
CLICK HERE

FAQ ~
CLICK HERE

G&B - Community board
CLICK HERE

To make the site easier to navigate click on the index tab at the top of any page - pink hearts mean there is something new within the board you have not read/looked at and if you scroll right down you will see the last ten posts from all over FF all are clickable  if you refresh this page (f5) it will update the last ten posts as well as the boards/threads and who's online!!!
take some time to look at the *help tab* too 

Check out the *Locations boards* for where you live & a site search for your *clinic* 

Wishing you Friendship  &    


If you need any help just ask! 
~Dizzi~


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

Hello Secret Broody, just wated to say welcome to Fertility Freinds. 

I have had acupuncture myself with IVF, however I did not go to Dr Zhai, but a local practitioner. I do think it can have huge benefits bit when used in conjunction with fertility treatment and also as an alternative to fertility treatment, especially where there are hormonal or possibly unexplained issues (i.e. a short luteal phase such as you have). You might even find that, while waiting for all your tests and treatments, you conceive with Dr Zhai's help, which would be lovely!

I do know of one lady on FF who had a cycle of tx with the ARGC on the NHS (or at least part NHS because, I believe, they still had to part self fund), however there were very specific issues why they were referred to the ARGC and she had had several treatments elsewhere, privately and NHS, beforehand. 
Usually a PCT will have a particular clinic or clinics that it works with to provide NHS tretament and you really have very little say in the matter. It couldn't hurt to ask I suppose, but don't be too disappointed if it's not possible. If you have your heart set on the ARGC, then perhaps you could look at self funding and asking your GP to fund the drugs. It is possible that you could make a good case for this, espcially if you can show that the cost of one funded cycle of drugs would be less than, say xx number of full cycles elsewhere that they would otherwise provide.
I don't have any personaly experience of your PCT and I think, perhpas the best thing to do would be to check out your locations boards as I am sure there will be someone on them who has had dealings with NHS and IVF from your area.

Wishing you lots of luck on your journey. 

C~x


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

Hi and welcome to the site 

You have come to a fantastic place full of advice and support and i wish you loads of luck with everything.

Kate xx[/center​


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## Secret Broody (Jan 5, 2008)

Dear all,

Thank you for your support and comments.

I had my appointment on Monday, and she is a very lovely woman. Dr Zhai was very thorough with my medical history and questions and took my pulse and a view of my tongue. The outcome of my first appointment was that she advised me into getting some blood tests done (as *Bottleofwater* rightly said) which I now wait for the results as these were taken this morning . My DH will go for a SA next week and we'll see how that goes. I'll start my first accupuncture tx next week- but I'm not looking forward to the tea though 

I do hope and pray   that I'll be treated and eventually conceive with DR Zhai prior to any tx with clinic

I also contacted our local PCT and they had advised a 11 week waiting list which isn't bad considering some posts on waiting lists i've seen on here.

*Kamac80-* Congratulations on your BFP  Spread some  our way will ya 

*Hi Emsy 25!* 

*Bottleof water*- Thankyou

*Caz*-Thanks for the info

*Dizzi*- Thanks

*Minxy*- thanks, I shall endeavour to take it one step at a time...

  xx


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## bottleofwater (Jun 19, 2007)

hi Secret Broody

Good luck with your treatment and getting your blood test results back. You get used to the tea, its not so bad.  Very powerful stuff though, i think it is more powerful than the acupuncture, not entirely sure how it works but some herbs i have read have estrogenic effects.xx


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## Loubie101 (Aug 20, 2005)

Hi, I just wanted to say welcome to FF, it's a fantastic site, you'll get tons of support 

Good luck with your tx, hope you get a BFP soon 

xx


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