# To wait or push for next cycle?



## Slug (Dec 28, 2010)

Hi

I got my BFN on boxing day and now am uncertain about how to push forward the next treatment. I went to see my doc who said I should rest of couple of months to allow myself to recover but the thought of waiting makes me sad. At least when you are on the cycle you have something to hope for - and have something to aim for.

I have been devastated to get the BFN and still find I burst into tears if I openly talk about it. I know my F/U will help and potentially tell me to wait but if I have the opportunity to move ahead should I wait (with the chance of still feeling low) or crack on?

Any thoughts/advice?


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## Kitty71 (Apr 14, 2010)

Hi Slug,

Sorry to hear about your BFN. It would be a good idea for you to have at least one normal cycle and bleed before you try again but I think you could try again as soon as you feel emotionally ready.

The waiting is torture isn't it and the planning involved for the next TX seems to help you get over the last one. I had my first BFN in November and have just started stims tonight and I must say that knowing I was starting again soon has got me through. I'm lucky enough to be getting a 2nd NHS go and they are squeezing me in before I hit the big 40 in March.

See what they say at your follow up hun and take it from there. I hope you feel a bit better soon it does get a bit easier over time.

Take care,


Kitty


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## malbec (Jan 25, 2010)

hey slug, sorry to hear about your bfn. when our first ivf didn't work - july - we were told by our clinic that i needed to have 2 periods before starting next cycle on the 3rd period. i was gutted as just wanted to stay in that bubble of hope and pretend i was still in the midst of treatment. also i have long cycles so i said that could take a few months. the consultant said it was time rather than number of periods they were interested in really so 2 months break would be adequate - i.e September. i think it is important to give your body a break, in particular your ovaries. and as kitty says to have at least one more period would be good to have a fresh womb lining etc. as it turned out we made the tough decision to wait an additional 2 months until i turned 30 in november, as we knew we'd get a funded cycle then. it was hard to accept to start with, especially coping with more pg announcements in the meantime, including my younger brother and his girlfriend, but you just survive - you have to don't you as there's no alternative! spend the time booking in nice things to look forward to if you can: weekends away, lunches out, spa trips, or just seeing friends and family. enjoy having sex for fun again without thinking of conceiving - i found that quite liberating (we knew following first ivf cycle that it was unlikely we'd manage to conceive naturally as none fertilised). anyway you do get through it. i started d/r early december and had e/c on thursday. just got a call to say all 6 embies are doing well so we're having e/t on Tues / day 5. nerve-racking! take care hun. xx


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## Slug (Dec 28, 2010)

Thanks Malbec and Kitty 71 and good luck with your treatment. Sending you both lots of     Its a new year and time for things to change for us all.

I had my F/U, felt so much better afterwards. As you said I have a plan now. the consultant recommended starting on my 2nd bleed, so I hoping to start at the end of this month. The thought of waiting longer got me down. We also found out that the NHS will pay for the FET plus another fresh cycle and then FET again (if their are any frosties.) I was so surprised, thought they would cover the FET and that was it. This has helped too as I know I have 2 more cracks at it after this one. Not that it will be needed   

Malbec I hope the E/T went well for you today, let me know how you got on? What are your plans for the 2WW? Bed rest or normality to help you forget?

xxxxx


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## malbec (Jan 25, 2010)

Ah glad you don't have to wait too long and great that you have some more funded options ahead of you, like you say hopefully you won't need it.

We have e/t on Tuesday now - going for day 5! Exciting as know it increases our chances but also from hearing others' experiences I know there is probably less chance of getting any frosties at that stage.

I am going back to work on Thursday (only work in an office so nothing too strenuous during 2WW) then will be relaxing in the evenings and asking DH to wait on me!

x


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## Kitty71 (Apr 14, 2010)

That's great news Slug    and you sound much better too and that's nice. Best of luck to you I'll keep my eye out for you.

Good luck for transfer Malbec and I hope you get something for the freezer    

I'm on day 6 stims today and start the antagonist tonight.

Fingers crossed our dreams will come true very soon   

kitty xxx


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## Slug (Dec 28, 2010)

Kitty 71, not long for you now.    What is antagonist?

My doc, (had 2 BFP through IVF) recommended taking Whey Protein (Solgar) said its good for growing eggs. You add it to milk or juice and is a good natural supplement. Helped for her. I bought some pineapple juice yesterday, everyone seems to be going on about it on this site. But apart from that I'm not being too strict on myself this time round. 

Just spent time with a friend who has twins through egg donor, reminds me what its all for. Ours are waiting for us out there.XX


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## Kitty71 (Apr 14, 2010)

Hi Slug,

I'm doing an antogonist protocol this time round where you start stims on day 3 then once the follies are 12 mm you start the medcation which stops you ovulating. 

I'm doing the pineapple juice this time too and brazil nuts. I had toget the chocolate ones though as I hated eating the plain ones so didn't bother in the end.

I'm not being too strict either I think it's more important to stay sane and happy through it all.

Funny you've been with twins today. My sister in law has just left with her two. They were IVF and were 2 on Christmas day.

Take care hun xx


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## malbec (Jan 25, 2010)

I've been putting Brazil nuts in to yoghurt or adding some to museli - makes them slightly nicer!! Am not bothering with pineapple juice as kept reading conflicting stuff everywhere about it so just thought 'sod it' bet none of it makes any diff anyway! Just trying to eat healthy, lots of fibre and protein, and sleep well. xxx


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## Slug (Dec 28, 2010)

Went to see another consultant today (Agora) to get a second opinion and find out our options. Came away confused but it was good. The doc says she thinks the reason we haven't been conceiving naturally is because my biological age may be older so I'm not producing as many eggs. She wants to do further tests that our original consultant didn't even consider - HMA and further FSH blood.

We are now going to try and get our funding transferred to the Agora as we felt they would treat us more as an individual case compared to the other clinic where we felt we were being churned through. 

The Agora has also recommended short protocal IVF instead of FET, so that we get my eggs now - clock ticking!!

So the decision has been taken out of my hands. If we want the treatment we now think is best then we will probably have to wait another month to get the funding sorted. I am really glad I pushed the F/U's through though so that we can start the ball rolling.

This whole process never ceases to amaze and confuse me - you think you know what it going to happen and then something totally unexpected happens.

The wait scares me but I want to get it right.

Malbec - have fingers crossed for your E/T tomorrow.  

xx


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## Kitty71 (Apr 14, 2010)

Hiya Slug,

The AMH test is pretty good as an indication of ovarian reserve and if yours was on the low side the short protocol would suit you better as it uses less suppression. Sounds like the new consultant is being thourough which is great.

Malbec good luck for tomorrow     

I've had a crap day. Ovaries feel ready to burst which I guess is a good sign but my hormones are all over the place. Cried doing the laundry last night and screamed at work after dealing with a particularly nasty client   the baby talk was off the scale too in my office today and I found it reallyhard to cope with.

Take care both xx


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## Slug (Dec 28, 2010)

Hi Kitty, sorry to hear about your day today, sending you a big      . 

Take care and have a good day tomorrow


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## Slug (Dec 28, 2010)

Hi Kitty and Malbec

Kitty how are you doing? Any possible dates for collection? How are the hormones and baby talk? I read something on another post about emotions when people talk babies, put it in context. 

"If someone's home is repossessed then people don't go around talking about how wonderful their home is and new projects they have"

"If someone looses their job then people don't go round talking about how great their job is and telling you funny anecdotes about what their boss did." But when it is babies people feel like it is ok.

When I read this it made me feel better because it made sense of why our emotions are perfectly normal and justified.

Malbec how did your E/T go? Do you have a test date?

Had a pretty roller coaster week - we found out that the NHS has pulled the funding for any further treatment so we would only get FET - which I know we should be blessed by as many people don't have that option, but the constant changes is hard. 

Anyway I have a plan now - short protocal, private funding and wait til end of Feb. Now just have to learn to be patient.

Take care and hope you both are ok
XX


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## malbec (Jan 25, 2010)

Hi both,

E/T went fine, we made the decision to have 2 blasts put back - against their advice   

OTD is next Saturday so only 1 week to go. Both DH and I are scared about it being a BFN though and want to stay inn our little blissfully ignorant and hopeful state that we have at the moment - eek!

xxx


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## Slug (Dec 28, 2010)

Ah I'm wishing you so much luck, have my fingers and toes crossed for you. Do you have things to distract you between now and Sat? 

Its great to get 2 blastocysts too, so all positive.

Are you still on the brazil nuts?


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## malbec (Jan 25, 2010)

I went back to work on Thursday and that kept my mind off it surprisingly well! Working all next week too and have lots of do fortunately.

I am still adding a few extra brazil nuts to my museli when I have museli for breakfast (although today I had scrambled eggs!) and am trying to drink plenty of fluids. 

xxx


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## Kitty71 (Apr 14, 2010)

Hi both,

Sorry to hear about you funding Slug but glad you have a solid plan. I work for the NHS and I think it's in a real mess right now and I wouldn't be at all suprised if they pull fertility funding completely in the future. The Welsh assembly only gave women here 2 goes from last April so I've been incredibly lucky getting a second in. The NICE guidelines state that there should be 3 goes but I've never heard of anyone anywhere actualy getting them.

I'm still struggling with the baby talk bu some days are easier. My best friend at work has 2 months left and it will get easier once she goes on maternity. It's her third and she's really relaxed and doesn't make a fuss but unfortunatley everyone else does. Slug I read that thread too and it is so true. I'm sure if people were told the heartache we have they would understand but of course life goes on doesn't it even when we feel ours don't.

Slug I think SPs are the way too go. I've been reading up on them and they now seem to be very popular especially in the US where some clinics have abandoned the LP. There is some evidence that down regulation can affect egg quality and that it's best to introduce it later on.

Malbec congratulations hun and good luck for OTD        here's hoping your embies are snuggling in lovely and tight. I'm going with 2 this time after ESET last time. My fear of Twins has diminished considerably after our BFN   

AFM EC on Wednesday. Was originally told Monday so have had to re jig time off but have still managed to keep it all a secret. Had 11 nice follies last Wednesday so hoping for a nice crop and praying they fertilize and get to blast again. Still on the Pineapple juice and Brazils too. Couldn't get the chocolate ones yesterday though so hadto get normal ones, yuk!!!

Take care both,

k xx


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## malbec (Jan 25, 2010)

Kitty - melt some choc yourself and put the Brazils in them! Or in some honey!

Just to jump on the funding moan bandwagon - many PCTs have alreday cut funding for any cycles completely. In Oxfordshire we have only been able to get 1 funded cycle. It used to be that the woman had to be aged 35-39 (plus other criteria like trying for 3+ years if no diagnosed fertility problem, no previous children etc), anyway lots of people lobbied regarding the strict age restriction (NICE guidelines said age 23-40)... anyway after lobbying they changed it - to age 30-34 instead... So still restrictive with couples missing out! It's just incredibly unfair. Anyway I shouldn't complain because it has worked out in my favour (after our first attempt we just had to wait 4 months instead of the recommended 2 months break to reach my 30th b'day and get funding for attempt #2).

As for work - I am finding there are younger girls in our department who talk incessantly about babies and pregnancies are the harder for me to cope with no than the colleague who are pregnant. In particular the girl who sits next to me just gabbles on all the time about how her older sister is expecting and all the cute baby clothes she can buy for her - ARGH!

xxx


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## Slug (Dec 28, 2010)

Evening

I think you are right about funding, can't see it getting any better. I guess we just have to count our lucky stars that we have got this far with NHS support. Maybe it's fate too - forcing my hand to go to the nicer and closer clinic. 

A/F arrived yesterday, was tempted to call the clinic and get my scan booked to start the treatment straight away but we were also in final stages of booking a holiday. Hubby managed to get a week off next Tuesday so off to Lanzarote for some winter sun. I kept thinking we could organise the scans around it but don't think I'm really ready for it yet. It's amazing how you change your mind, 2 weeks ago I was counting the days to A/F so I could start!

So should now start around 21st Feb - which I'm hoping by that time you'll both be telling me stories of morning sickness     

The hardest baby talk for me has been a really dear friend is due anyday - I have been keeping my distance for a while as she doesn't really understand fertility treatment and can be a bit blunt at times. It's awful when you start treading bumping into people you care about. I think one of the girls at work is about to announce she's pregnant too   !

Malbec how are you holding up? Time becoming too slow?

Kitty - good luck with EC on Wednesday, hope you have lots of follies to pick from.

xxx


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## malbec (Jan 25, 2010)

you know - i do want it to get to saturday but i'm also scared of what might be, so i am willing to wait! busy busy at work so am always cursing the working week going to quickly!

good for you slug having an extra month break - holiday will put u in a great state of mind before starting. xxx


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## Kitty71 (Apr 14, 2010)

Evening girls,

Slug have a fantastic holiday, you'll both be relaxed after that and sunlight is fantastically good for you. The vit D is good for something for fertility (can't rememeber what right now though). 

Malbec wow not long now till test day hun it'll be here before you know it     

Got my trigger tonight at 11.45pm and I'm having a rotten evening. Just found out my clinic have run out of gestone so I'm in a panic. Screamed at DP who seems more interested in his Xbox and now sitting in bed crying feeling sorry for myself    bloomin' fed up with this lark right now and the hard part hasn't even started yet!

Take care both,

k xx


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## malbec (Jan 25, 2010)

Hope you're enjoying your drug free day Kitty! Good luck for tomorrow


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## Kitty71 (Apr 14, 2010)

Thanks hun. I feel really uncomfortable today and can't wait to go home and lie down. Gravity is not my friend today   .


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## Slug (Dec 28, 2010)

Kitty, I hope it went ok today and you have lots of fertilised embryos waiting for you. They'll be waiting to get back home to you.

Our clinic ran out of Gestone at Xmas. On the good side you don't need to have those awful jabs  

Malbec only a few days to go now, I'm wishing you so much luck and a big   to get you through the next couple of days.

Just got my holiday reading through - "Conquering Infertility - Mind/Body Guide to Enhancing Fertility" - hoping it will give me the PMA I need for the next cycle.

Take lots of care
XXXX


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## Kitty71 (Apr 14, 2010)

Slug nice holiday reading    no chick lit for us IF girls.

Malbec how are you doing?? Really not long to go now, hope you're staying sane.

Just got a call from the lab and out of the 10 eggs 9 were mature and 6 have fertilised. Really pleased and am booked in for transfer on Monday afternoon. Feel I can relax a bit now for a few days so I'm in my pjs and going to make a start on my 23 hour box set of "The Tudors".

Take care both xxx


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## Slug (Dec 28, 2010)

Kitty that is fabulous news, 6 fertilised eggs, fantastic.  Have a relaxing weekend and enjoy The Tudors. I am so pleased that you have so many fertilised eggs.  

X


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## malbec (Jan 25, 2010)

*Kitty *- same as me hun! I got 10 eggs and 6 ferts!! Good number 

*Slug *- sounds like heavy reading!

I am fine thanks both, bit worried about tomorrow morning but at the same time want it to come round quickly now and just find out! Had a really busy week at work so am feeling quite drained now. I met up with a few of the ladies from my fertility unit thread (on this site) last night for dinner locally which was nice.

xxx


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## Kitty71 (Apr 14, 2010)

Malbec good luck for tomorrow I'll be thinking of you hun     

Funny you had a meet last night. I've got mine tomorrow lunch time. Been going monthly for about 6 months now and It's always nice to see them and have cwtch with the bubbas.

k xxx


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## malbec (Jan 25, 2010)

I got a    ladies! Can't quite believe it!

Sending big positive vibes for you both, and for me to get to next milestone! Should have a scan in 2 weeks       

xxx


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## Slug (Dec 28, 2010)

That is absolutely b.....y fantastic, I'm so happy for you          

Just goes to show that it does happen. Maybe 6 is the lucky number Kitty  

I would love to be able to meet up with people on this site who live near, how did you find/start a thread for this? Any tips? I have found this thread to be really great and hearing your stories is helping me get my PMA back and the strength to do round 2 while still carrying on with life. 

Have fingers and toes crossed for your 2 week scan Malbec. I read that pumpkin seeds are good, have loads of magnesium which keeps the lining thick.

xx


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## Kitty71 (Apr 14, 2010)

Yay way to go Malbec I'm so pleased!!!!!!!!!!

Slug we have our own clinic board for IVF Wales but have you checked out all the different county thread. Or just do a general shout out on Introductions because alot of people read them. I like the meets because it is lovely to have a cwtch with babies and not feel that awful stab of jealousy because you know the struggles their mum's had to have them.

I've just woken up  DP let me lie in because I had a terrible night. The worst wind I have ever had in my whole 40 years  must be the Gestone. Off to stuff my face at the Harvester now with the girls.

Have a smashing weekend both, and congrats again Malbec you must be floating on air hun xxx


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## Slug (Dec 28, 2010)

Good luck tomorrow with ET Kitty - do you know how many you are going to have put back? Sending lots of       

x


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## Kitty71 (Apr 14, 2010)

Thanks Slug   

We will have 2 back providing there are 2 left. We had eSET last time because I was a bit scared of having twins. We decided first time round that if we were unsucceful we would go for 2 this time. We were probably over confident last time - we had a fantastic blast put back and thought it would stick.

Blasts again this time with lots of extras so here's hoping     

Do you go on your hols this week??


xxx


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## Slug (Dec 28, 2010)

I am the same - went for SET first time round because it was a top grade blast. I think I also thought that it would work so we could then definately have further children afterwards. Now I know nothing is guranteed and you have to be thankful for anything you get. So from now on its 2 all the way. 

Sending you lots of positive vibes today. 

Off on hols tomorrow - going to treat myself to a few drinks - it won't take much to get drunk as I have abstained for so long!! Looking forward to spending some fun time with my dh - then have the treatment to look forward to when I get back.

Do you know when you OTD is?

xx


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## Kitty71 (Apr 14, 2010)

Hi both,

Well I'm back home in my pjs and have 2 lovely beans on board. A top glade blasto and one that is currently an early blast. Had 3 frozen today too but one little might didn't make the freezing grade. 

So now the 2 week madness   my clinic do super long testing dates so I think I might test on the 12th which is 17 days after EC so should be ok.

Slug have a fantastic holiday, get lots of sun and chillax    

Hi Malbec hope you are well hun   

k xx


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## malbec (Jan 25, 2010)

How did your e/t go *Kitty*? Hope you had 2 fabby embies to put back! We decided to risk 2 but really had to stick to our guns with the clinic, they were very set on recommending SET but ultimately it was our choice. I had heard of many ladies on this site that had got to blast with a good number of embies, had a top grade blast put back but then none able to be frozen and then got a BFN  - that's why I wanted to push for 2 as I just thought we'd increase our chances as much as poss that way.

I could totally have gone either way though as the clinic do really scare you talking about risks of twins. My best friend had twins last year and of course when you see it work fine for someone then you think 'they were alright' but it does increase lots of risks... however it annoyed me that the clinic were so anti because in their own research they say that the vast majority of failed IVF cycles and miscarraiges are due to a chromosomal problem with the embryo/blast (rather than an implantation problem) and that if pre-genetic screening/diagnosis was common-place the success rate of IVF could go up to 70-80%! And they can't tell whether an embryo or blast is completely perfect without doing that screening process, so how do they know that the 'perfect 5AB+ hatching blast' I had put back didn't have something wrong with it and might not have made it, whilst the second '3BB' blast I also had put back may have gone on to be just right? I'm sure the research informs them that when the embryo/blast 'looks best' that it is most often 'best' but just look how many ladies on the site have got pg with FETs - that to me tells us all we need to know that is is not a 100% perfect way to pick the 'most likely to stick' embie!

I think us ladies blame ourselves far too much as well, whilst it is nice to feel like we're doing something to help - eating a few brazil nuts etc - it really just comes down to the hormones and if your body is responding to the hormones (which it probably is if you get to e/t!) then that's really all we can do to prepare the right environment for them embies to embed themselves.

Anyway rant over!!!

*Slug* - like Kitty says I have met up with people on the local threads on here (Oxfordshire chat thread and the Oxford Fertility Unit thread). I got involved trying to organise a meet-up on the ex-Clomid chat thread but it didn't happen. More likely to get takers if you stay local.

*Kitty* - just saw your post! Woohoo lady! Sounds about the same development stage of the 2 blasts I had! 3 frozen is amazing too - well done! Well my clinic said I could test 11 days after my day 5 blast and that second line was extremely clear even on the clinic's testing thing (which is notorious for being faint) - and I'd been for a wee in the night! Another girl on one of the threads I post on tested 7 days after e/t on day 5 and tested positive! I think that's a little early but I say don't worry about doing it a little early - preferably on a day convenient for you (weekend was perfect for us as gave us some breathing space to deal with the result).
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Slug (Dec 28, 2010)

Back from my hols - had a great time, really switched off. No constant reminders of the treatment, owing mainly to the fact that most of the people in our hotel were "Waiting for God"   Was a bit of a crash back to reality but I guess you always get holiday blues. I treated myself too, relaxed about drinking and didn't worry about what I ate - chose to leave my fertility book behind and opted for some easy reading - was a good plan!

Kitty I'm so sorry the treatment didn't work out for you, have been thinking about you. It is great though that you have 3 frosties   , and I bet you're keen to crack on with the treatment. Have the clinic said how long you should wait?

Malbec, it is great news about your 6 week scan, is the wait between scans as excruiciating as the 2WW?

A/F is due on the 19th - so not long now before I start treatment. I feel in a better place now, getting excited but I guess more realistic about the outcome. I think you have to take each day as it comes and be thankful for the positives. I started seeing a councillor too, had my first session (cried all the way through!) so hopeful that will help.

take care both
xxxx


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## malbec (Jan 25, 2010)

Hey *Slug* - sounds like you had a great holiday and are in the right mindset for your next treatment (in my humble opinion!)

*Kitty *- I just saw your signature. So sorry it was a BFN for you. Give yourself time to grieve this cycle, it must be so so hard  I am glad you have some frosties 'in the bank' though - there are lots of ladies on this site that have got their BFPs with FETs. Just because the clinics think they are choosing the 'best ones' to put back they don't really know because they don't screen all of the chromosomes of the embryos so they can't detect whether any of the embies that look good may have a flaw that would hamper them implanting (or miscarrying). I know it's not much comfort for you right now but it does explain why some ladies don't get a positive with the fresh cycle but go on to have success with frozen cycles. Oxford Fertility Unit where i was treated have been pioneering a new screening process called CGH where they test every pair of chromosomes in the embryos and they reckon when this becomes more wide-soread in IVF it could massively increase success rates http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8313822.stm the first couple to have had healthy twins following this treatment (after years of difficulties) were on the local news recently - brought a tear to my eye hearing their story http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/gloucestershire/hi/people_and_places/newsid_9386000/9386615.stm

Anyway, sorry if I am going on and you just don't need it at the moment, I was just hoping to give you some hope with those frosties as I think all of us would tend to think 'if the so-called 'best ones' from the cycle didn't work why would the extras they froze work?'.

Am I turning into one of those crazy pg women who just goes on too much? Apologies if so!

Yes we had 6 wk scan yesterday *Slug* and it was very emotional and reassuring, we're unbelievably pleased and grateful that we're expecting twins but are also well aware that it is early days and that there is a phenomenan called 'vanishing twin syndrome' which they'r not sure how common it is when one twin doesn't make it to 12 weeks and the cells are reabsorbed by the mother or other twin. It isn't known how common because of course in most pregnancies people only get the scan at 12 weeks and just see a singleton baby so only if problems occur later in life can it transpire they had a twin early on in the womb.

I am really pleased too that we get another scan at the unit in 2 weeks - I thought that would be it after yesterday so am glad we only have to wait another 2 weeks to check things again - then I guess we'll just go into the usual system.

I am starting to allow myself to get excited and happy. The waits are not too bad - I'm keeping myself busy and am lucky that I haven't had any untoward symptoms to stress about.

Take care both

xxx

/links


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