# Foster to adopt - issue re child's guardian



## gettina (Apr 24, 2009)

Hi
Pretty specific question this so just a long shot.
We were meant to be starting intros for baby number 2 (not sibling) on Thursday via foster to adopt. Got told yesterday there's a delay as the child's court appointed guardian isn't certain about it. 
So sad and frustrated and crosss. We get told to accept so much uncertainty in the best interests of the child then find people we didn't know were so integral to the process (and who clearly should have been consulted earlier) want certainty and are delaying. 
Guardian wants to see the assessment documentation which won't be submitted till Sept. it seems like EPP is still so new/rare there's no agreed process or expectations. We are more worringly being told the guardian also is minded to give BM another go against the assessing SWs advice (obviously, given they are pursuing adoption). Baby currently in FC with BM contact. 
My Q is how much influence does Guardian have? Can she over rule the SWs? Very worried now that even if at a forthcoming meeting when my SW is confident they'll change her mind (I am not confident) if they do and this progresses and we bring baby home later we may have a child guardian whose not fully supportive of adoption and presumably this is more risky for us?
Currently gutted and in a slightly tricky spot at work where I am expected to be finishing on Wed - will handle that but not great!
We will hear an update in a week after a meeting so sitting tight till then.
Any experience?
Thank you 
Gettina


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## Thepinklady (Apr 16, 2014)

It is neither the social workers or the guardians decision - it is the courts. The guardians role is to ensure that the child's best interest are at the forefront throughout the court process. It has emerged recently that  difficulty with some EPP is that some LA's are running f2a on no orders with birth parents being encouraged to voluntarily place their child in fc believing that they will be supported to get their child back. Of course this rarely happens and the social workers go on to complete assessessments and make a decision that adoption is best interest and do successfully get a court order for child. There has been a recent report on this that made headlines as a concern on behalf of birth family. Are you aware if the baby is subject to a interim care order or is it running on no order? If there is no care order the case will not have been ruled on by a judge although will be in the court arena. The guardians role does become important at this stage as they will need to suggest it goes to judge for ruling if they have any doubts that the birth family should have further support. If your social worker is confident they will go with f2a she is probably right so don't panic too much. These delays are important if you are not really prepared for the child not remaining permanently with you. You need to rule out most of the risk now. I will say that social workers can have biased positions to birth parents particularly if previous children have been removed and almost write them off before giving them their real chance. It is therefore he guardian's role, who is neutral, to assess if the family need further support (sometimes from an independent source) before adoption can be deemed appropriate. Try not to panic but I definitely think they need to explore this now, rather than after placement with yourselves.


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## Barbados Girl (Jul 7, 2012)

If you want my tuppence worth, with a birth child that might be too much uncertainty.  You would at least, as Pink Lay said, want to know there is an interim care order in place and I would be concerned if the guardian was not supporting adoption.  What if the judge found the guardian's arguments more compelling than the social worker's?  I am so sorry this has come up for you, it must be heart breaking but this might be the time to find out a bit more before you go any further?


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## Tictoc (Aug 20, 2015)

When we fostered to adopt I got a phone call when he was 5 weeks saying they were going to court and he would probably be with us that night so be ready. I then got a call a few hours later saying there had not been agreement in court and guardian thought paperwork was not all in place and so wanted to give birth mother another chance. 6 weeks later he came to us.

Birth family is always going to be the first choice and whilst the social workers might have seen the birth mother multiple times and know on experience (as much as anything can be known with certainty) that it is not going to work for birth mother the court and court appointed guardian are always going to give as many chances as they feel necessary. The child's social worker (pre PO) was young and not that experienced and she should never have told me to expect him. The more experienced SW's always told me there was no certainty but they felt this would happen but could never be clear on timescales as every opportunity would be given to birth mother.

It's a horribly uncertain time and really feel for you.


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## gettina (Apr 24, 2009)

Thank you for the replies. Appreciated.


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## ritzi (Feb 18, 2006)

The guardian pulls the biggest weight in the court - but ultimately the court will decide. IF babys SW are saying you, guardian is saying NO, it will become a contested court case. 

If this is for number 2 it would be too big a risk for me, for my first child, let alone my own emotions.


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## gettina (Apr 24, 2009)

So, to update, gutted but also relieved that Guardian has stuck to their decision to keep baby in FC until assessment paperwork has been submitted - even saying she's not happy to pre empt the court's decision re going to potential adopters - err that's the whole point of EPP.
When I asked my SW how her dept were going to deliver on their policy to use EPP when the other stakeholders they need to work with won't necessarily work that way she just said it's going to be hard and work or not on a case by case basis depending which individuals were involved. Doesn't give potential EPP adopters much of a process to cling on to! Though I do understand it's always hard doing something a new way for a long while. 
Baby will likely be back for matching in a couple of months and - like your experience tictoc (thank you for sharing) we may well be approached again. Just a shame it's months in foster care instead of with us and it will take me a while to reprogramme my head that thought there was a baby coming home next week.
As several of you more-or-less said - which I found sage and wise and helpful - Better to be gutted now than devastated later. 
Gettina x


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## Thepinklady (Apr 16, 2014)

That is so disappointing for you. So sorry. It is especially hard when you were mentally all prepared to move the LO in. I know you will find staying on at work difficult when everyone was preparing for you to leave. Facing people who expect one thing and don't understand the system of adoption is one of the hardest things about what we do. Managing other people's disappointments for us alongside our own is hard. We have had several changes to expected outcomes on our journey and I found the retelling of our story over and over again by far the hardest. One thing I have found helpful is writing an open letter to friends, family and colleagues that I can send/email a head of me meeting many of them explaining in lay mans terms what we are doing, what we are attempting to do,  and why it perhaps has not worked out. It saves long, tedious and sometimes difficult converations later. In the couple of minutes that you sometimes have to speak to people it can be hard to explain properly exactly where you are at. You might find this useful.

I think you are right in saying that you may well find yourselves re-matched to the LO in a few months. It is a shame for you and the lo that a few months of important months are lost but if you really know you don't want to help reunite her home in the future then it is better to have the disappointment now when you have not fallen in love with the LO as opposed to the idea of her. EPP is in some areas is  at early days and if it is going to take off and be fully successfully for all such cases even when there is a chance that the lo could be rehabilitated home than the recruitment process needs to change. It needs to be promoted as another form of foster care but where permanence becomes adoption instead of long term fostering. The potential foster carers do need to be going into it as foster carers who are also happy if appropriate to adopt after all decisions are made. Not people who really only want to adopt. With adopters they can not take the risk until they are sure adoption will be the outcome. 

Thinking about you!


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## gettina (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks pinklady x


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