# LWC v The Lister



## K8L (Apr 26, 2011)

Hello!  I've posted on here a couple of times and I regularly keep up with all your news.  We are very excited to be starting our IVF journey (me using partners eggs) but we had a really disappointing initial consultation at the LWC last week.  They were unable to answer any of our questions about donor sperm and instead said that we needed to call someone at the London Sperm Bank which is fine apart from they have not returned our calls.  After the first couple of unreturned calls I sent them an email but they haven't responded to that either.  I am getting concerned because our preferred donor has only got one pregnancy slot left and I really don't want to lose him just because we have unanswered questions.  My partner has also called the LWC a couple of times about a question she had for the nurse and no one has returned her calls either.  Also, the consultant talked to us as thought we knew everything he was telling us already and seemed really surprised when we asked questions.  He was a bit short and unfriendly.  We had done a lot of research but we still needed him to speak to us like non-medics!  To be fair the nurse was really nice but she contradicted the doctor so we came out of there slightly confused about a couple of things. All in all, for a process that is going to cost us £14K all in (including sperm costs etc), I really don't feel like we're getting a good enough service.

I've been tossing and turning for a few nights about all this because I am so keen to get going and the LWC just doesn't feel right but then I come onto these boards and I can see that lots of you are having great success at the LWC so I wonder if we're overreacting.    We've booked an appointment at the Lister but I'm worried that it will be exactly the same and perhaps I just need to get used to it!

Sorry to go on!  Any advice gratefully received!!!

Kate xx


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## Steph29 (Apr 28, 2009)

Hi

We got pregnant with our little boy a year ago using LWC we never had any problems are a bit slow at returning calls ect but once we started treatment we just asked for our consultant and if they were available we would just be put straight through. Our time was short with them as we conceived first time me carrying dps eggs so was short and sweet but always found them helpful and supportive and will be going back for next one as we have frozties.
Dont really know anything about Lister but im sure after the appointment you will know which is best for you both.

Emmax


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## K8L (Apr 26, 2011)

Thanks.  We've had a bit of a heart to heart this evening and I think we are going to stick with the LWC as there are so many positive stories on here and we are probably just being impatient because we're over excited about starting a family!  Plus I like their coffee machine!!

Lovely to hear from someone else who has been through exactly what we are about to go through.  Especially someone with such a great success story!  How long did it take you from your first appointment to the embryo transfer?  

K


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## Steph29 (Apr 28, 2009)

our consultation was middle of may and egg transfer was end of september, as we needed to sync with each other reagarding cycles so this makes it a little longer we had to start by both going on the pill then have a cycle then i was injected to stop cycles and dp started stimming.

When are you hoping to start

You also mentioned it was gonna cost 14k just wondered why it was so much? is this what london has told you?


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## Pinktink (Dec 17, 2008)

Hello 

it really is frustrating when you want to get going isn't it!?! I remember that feeling all too well...

Are you planning to do the 3 cycle package there? Otherwise I can't see why it would cost you so much?? We had two cycles at the lwc and it wasn't such a positive experience so moved to another clinic but they do have a good record with healthy women whose only problem is a lack of sperm  

have you included the cost of icsi in your calculation as with the lwc it's pretty much a definite  this  was something we weren't expecting to need so had to come up with the money pretty quick!!

Lots of luck


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## K8L (Apr 26, 2011)

In the £14K we have accounted for icsi and blasto which we may not need and it includes sperm storage and sibling sperm which I guess isn't technically just for this cycle.  They've told us it's about £5.5 for the treatment which includes drugs for my partner but then we went through and added up the drugs for me, the HFEA fee, the initial consulations (they told us we had to have two), sperm, shipping, sperm storage at the LSB, the pregnancy slot with the ESB, the blood tests we still need (a lot of these have already sorted), a mock cycle (the consultant said we needed this but the nurse told us we didn't so not sure if we'll do it), icsi and blasto (if necessary).

They also said that because we are using my partner's eggs but I am carrying we can't do the three cycle option.

We want to get started as soon as possible.  We are just waiting on some blood test results and my mock cycle (if I do it).  Did you guys do the mock cycle?

Kate xx

PS I had a really good chat with Venessa at LWC about sperm (God that sentence sounds funny out of context!) and am feeling much more positive about the LWC.  PLus we have my nephews staying this weekend which has helped get me out of my fertility funk!!


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## Pinktink (Dec 17, 2008)

No we were never even offered a mock cycle! Maybe things have changed but I don't think we would have gone for it tbh.

I didn't realise you were importing sperm.. Was there a reason you chose this option? Hope you don't mind me asking but we are considering number two and whether that might be something we would do.. How much is the pregnancy slot and how much have you ordered? 

Glad your nephews have taken your mind off it


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## K8L (Apr 26, 2011)

We decided a while back that we definitely wanted to use an "anon" donor so we were looking at the London Sperm Bank but it all felt so clinical that I just wasn't convinced.  We started hearing really positive things about the European Sperm Bank so we looked into it and we spoke to them at the Alternative Family Show.  Somehow it feels more personal  than the London Sperm Bank.  They have a good selection of donors with quite a bit of information on each donor - all the usual about medical history but also an interview that you can listen to, a baby picture, a hand written message from the donor to the recipient and a note from the staff at the ESB giving their impression of the donor.  I love the idea that our future children will have that information to pour over if they want to whilst they wait to reach to the age when they can make contact.  We picked our donor with that at the front of our minds.  We also decided to stick with Europe so that they weren't too far away if our children want to make contact when they were able but the world is getting smaller all the time and I am less concerned about that than I once was.  Finally, the team at the ESB seem very efficient which I have really appreciated.

It's cost about EUR1700 for 6 units of sperm (more for ready washed sperm), EUR1000 for the pregnancy slot and EUR300 for the shipping.  Then there are storage costs depending on your plans.  We are shipping everything over to the LWC.  If you store it with the ESB you can get 75% back on the sperm that you don't use and if you are unsuccessful you get 75% back on the pregnancy slot.  You can share the pregnancy slot with your partner too which we have done although right now my partner does not have any desire to carry.  I hope this is accurate!  If and when you want to know more I'd just call them if I was you because they are very friendly and helpful.

When are you thinking about starting to try for number 2?

Kx


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## Steph29 (Apr 28, 2009)

We never did a mock cycle not sure what thats about. 

We had icsi, blast, storage and sperm from london sperm bank all in all i think our tx came to around the 7k mark i know prices have changed slightly since last year we were advised not to do the 3 cycle they said we didnt need it as we were young(ish) healthy and had no fertility prob.


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## nubbysmums (Dec 1, 2010)

If things don't work out at LWC, just wanted to say we're at the Lister and have been so pleasantly surprised by them.  Everyone is very professional and friendly, all questions answered and calls always returned the same day.  We found their success rates to be the best.  I got pregnant on my first cycle of IVF with them (only had 3 eggs but 2 got to blastocyst - no ICSI needed).  We'd had 3 IUIs at Kings but they failed to realise I had cysts and reduced ovarian reserve until after - really rubbish service there.

My one word of warning would be to say be careful of the over-selling.  You don't necessarily need ICSI at all.  Lister told us that is usually reserved for problem sperm in straight couples and donor sperm should be of sufficient quality to not need it - they decide at the time if it is a poorer quality sample.  LWC also heavily market themselves to the lesbian community which may be as straight women usually go to a clinic as they have a problem and lesbians give them a good success rate.  These points don't mean they are a bad clinic necessarily but just points to bear in mind.

Finally, if things work out and you live locally to these clinics, come join South London Lesbian Mum's Group!  (Gosh, didn't really mean this to sound like such a sales pitch)


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## coweyes (Sep 4, 2008)

K8L


Hi there, i just wanted to say that each fertility clinic is totally different.  I have previously been at an nhs hospital near where i live after 2 failed icsi and one failed fet i have moved to The Lister.  I have to say that even though i have not had any treatment with them yet i have still been really impressed with the services they have provided to me (investigation stuff mainly)  After only 2 visits they found out that i have a chromazone problem, this is defiantly very bad news, but i was told sensitifly and respectfully.  I was def given loads of time to ask questions and even went in with a long list and had every question answered.  If he was unable to answer my question, he was honest enough to say your better off asking the geneticist that.  (as its complicated genetics and quite specialised  




I am not trying to sale The Lister to you i am just saying that i was totally shocked by how different the 2 clinics that i have used are.  Good luck with your journey. xxxx


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## MeowToTheMoon (Jun 5, 2011)

Hi, I also wanted to say I had short dealings with LWC and have now started treatment with LFC (Lister).

I chose to cancel with LWC on the basis that I am seeking treatment as a single woman and needed full support from my chosen clinic.  I felt very on my own with LWC and a question I asked on one occasion was openly snorted at! 

Like you, my calls weren't returned and every time I called them again, I had to start my query right from scratch - there were no records kept of any calls.  

I gave up on the whole conception process as it felt so wrong to be there.  
Then when I finally plucked up my courage again, I was told by someone how wonderful LFC are.  I really have not been disappointed.  I feel valued and supported by them and so far none of my questions have been considered silly!  

They are very open to me as a single woman.

Whatever you choose, at least know you are not tied to one clinic.  If it works for you, stick with them, and if it doesn't, try another!

Good luck!!


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## Pinktink (Dec 17, 2008)

The lwc were pretty open with us that their embryologist is a big fan of icsi and is very good at it. We have since been informed by one of their ex staff that the bette. Grade sperm goes for iui (which is why they have such good results) and the ivf cycles get lesser quality sperm because they almost all have icsi. Each time we were told they would see what the sperm was like when it defrosted and each time told it wasn't good enough for straight ivf... When you are in that position you can't risk saying no to icsi in case you gt low fertilisation rates. 

The clini we moved to didn't seem to agree and said at the cost we were paying for sperm if it thawed badly they would simply defrost another straw - we had normal ivf and 100% fertilisation. The lwc always told us that it was because the sperm was frozen but obviously elsewhere this is t the case.

Sorry didn't come on to bash your choice of clinic and as you are importing your sperm hopefully won't be a problem...


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## coweyes (Sep 4, 2008)

Pinktink


Thats kind of the point i was trying to make, i was totally amazed at how different the two clinics i have used are.  Even the way they do things or think about things are sooooooooooo different.  I am totally glad i did not stay at my old clinic as they said that the reason i had not been sucessful so far was just down to  bad luck.  Moved clinics and like i said within  2 visits they had found the problem!!!!  I could have wasted £1000s with my old clinic and never known why it did not work.


K8L


I am not necessarily trying to sale you The Lister i am just trying to say how i felt when i started looking at different clinics.  xxx


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## K8L (Apr 26, 2011)

I just wanted to thank everyone for their great responses.  All very helpful.  Especially to nubbysmums as we do live in London (South West) and we are very keen to meet other lesbian mums!! x


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## K8L (Apr 26, 2011)

Hello all

It's been a while but during that time we've been back and forth to the LWC and are starting to get quite excited at the possibility of being parents.  Despite my fears, LWC have been good.  It was a struggle at first but DP called up and said we didn't feel like we were getting a great service and ever since they've been much better.  It goes to show it's worth speaking up (even though I'm rubbish at it).  

DP has started stims and I am taking the tablets to prepare my womb lining.  Should only be a couple of weeks before the EC all being well.  I still have all my fingers and toes crossed) and am feeling positive.

A couple of recent LGBT BFPs have helped keep us cheery through all the yucky hormones! 

Kate x


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## pipandattic (Jul 27, 2009)

Another vote for the Lister here. 
We have a one year old son conceived by IVF with imported donor sperm and me pregnant with wife's eggs. Can't rate them highly enough. 
We're back there now to try for a sibling with FET and again, they are fab. 
We never went anywhere else, so can't compare. 
The Lister is expensive in comparison to some others. We never came near £14k though. 
We did a mock cycle before the real thing and it was just as well because my lining wasn't playing the game at all. If we'd gone straight ahead assuming it would be alright we would've been in trouble. 
Best of luck with your treatment. Hopefully nine months from now you'll be stressing about feeding and weight gain...


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## sea-tree (Aug 12, 2011)

This is my first post, and it was great to read this thread, so thanks! We are currently at LWC but far from happy with them, their communication is terrible and we don't know what's happening until it happens (we do ask!), the sperm bank always gives us different info from what the clinic tells us and the treatment is not as good as I expected. They aren't very warm or nurturing at all (which surprised us given the nature of what they do). The 'bedside manner' of the drs also leaves a lot to be desired! This is our first clinic so we didn't know what else to expect, we didn't know if all clinics are like this. It looks like some of you have had a good experience of the Lister so we will check it out. Has anyone changed clinics before? Is it costly? Can I transfer all my scans etc to the new place? Thanks again! 

Just need to add that the opinions expressed on this thread are personal opinions and not ff opinions 
sorry boring i know but just have to say it


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## coweyes (Sep 4, 2008)

Puzzle 

Hi sorry ur not happy at your clinic. Regarding transferring medical notes, this costs I think I paid £10, check with lwc what they charge, get them sent to u not your new clinic as if u decide not to use them your have to pay to have them transferee again. If this makes sence.

Regarding test results this all depends on when u had the tests done as clinics like ur blood tests etc to be up to date. I am about to change clinicsfor the 3rd time and know they will need to re do some of my tests.

Some clinics want 2 HIV tests done, they get done 3 months apart and have to be done yearly, so I would think about wen this was last done. 

Good luck


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## Pinktink (Dec 17, 2008)

hi pixxie 

we transferred our care away from LWC and I think they tried to charge us £40 to give us a copy of our notes which I objected to and they ended up doing it for £10 if I remember rightly... Your notes are your legal right under data protection etc and they are allowed to charge for the job of photocopying but I objected that photocopying was worth £40!

I've heard good things about Bourn hall, I think that is where we will go for our next cycle.

x


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## sea-tree (Aug 12, 2011)

Hi Puzzle and Pinktink

Thanks for the info, very useful!  Bourn Hall does look good but it's a bit far for us to travel, might give the Lister a go!

Oh, and I see that ff has put a disclaimer up, rightly so these are my opinions after all, but if I gave you the facts I think you might share them!    For instance, whilst lying waiting for an IUI the doctor came in and started asking me what I was going to do next time!  I was trying not to think about a 'next time' but to be positive about this time!  Not good! (my opinion!)

Thanks again!


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## sea-tree (Aug 12, 2011)

Hi Puzzle and Pinktink

Thanks for the info, very useful!  Bourn Hall does look good but it's a bit far for us to travel, might give the Lister a go!

Oh, and I see that ff has put a disclaimer up, rightly so these are my opinions after all, but if I gave you the facts I think you might share them!    They have not been good, in my opinion!

Thanks again!


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