# Negative Cycle Buddies



## Pudding34

This may sound a little different but having been part of a cycle buddies group throughout my FET that ended in a BFN this morning I now feel very alone.

Is there anybody out here in the same boat who wants to join me in a buddy group for support following a negative cycle?

I had a chemical on my 1st fresh cycle in August and now have had another on my FET with the only two snow embies that made it through the thaw, I had another but it didn't make it through the thaw.

I tested on Friday and got a positive so I know we had implantation as we did last time.

We tested early in order to see if we had another chemical as it may mean we need to have immune investigations? Has anybody done this?

Pudding
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## Tiffanymi

Hi puddling. I am also struggling. Have had my 4th failed IVF and TBH not sure what else to do, it's so disheartening. I haven't done immune testing, but am changing clinics and will be asking them about this. I got my BFN on Friday....it's so hard to go into another year like this...


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## Pudding34

Hi Tiffany

I'm so sorry to hear you had a negative result.

Those words sound so trite don't they but I think you know that coming from somebody in the same shoes it really isn't.

My heart, what is left of it, goes out to you!

I have had a tough time of it this year and this just adds to them misery! You can see from my signature that I had a cancer scare earlier this year and about a month before that I got told I was to be made redundant, it's been a bit of a blessing and am back with my old firm as a consultant but only earning a percentage of my billings which at the moment because of the treatment is zero!

My three best friends had babies either this year or last year the most recent being the day I started bleeding on my August cycle. It broke my heart and I still haven't seen my honorary niece!

I told my three best friends about the IF and they all say they understand but I also feel Ike I am missing out on so much but balanced against that is the thought of the pain of seeing them all happy in their homes with their boyfriends and babies and then going home to our lovely home that feels distinctly empty and very very sad.

This might be a daft question but do you have any children before you IF?

What is your fertility issue. Ours is male factor and I know my DH is finding it just as hard to cope with it all.

Pudding
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## Tiffanymi

Hi pudding

Thanks for the message. I don't have kids at all...so trying for my first. I have endometriosis, blocked tubes, low ovarian reserve and unexplained infertility. They don't know if it's eggs or implantation. 

Sorry to hear ou are in such a painful position. You have been through alot ovtime and sometimes, we need to try and not think so much, as hard as it sounds, as the mental exhaustion is a killer. 

I hope that round the corner is your BFP and that all this OAU will eventually turn I to happiness and peace. It has happened with many people, don't give up hope. 

I am trying to see what I can do differently next time, do you have any ideas at all of what you have looked into?


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## Pudding34

Hi Tiffany

How are you doing today?

We don't have kids either, I think it makes the BFNs that much harder.

I woke up this morning and forgot I got the BFN yesterday, just for a few seconds but it was enough to make me collapse again when I remembered I hope that that doesn't go on for too long.

Thinking is hard, my brain is definitely over working, I stayed super busy yesterday doing things for Christmas, cleaning tidying and putting up our real Christmas tree but today I can't seem to do anything.

My DH loves Christmas decorations so we have two tress! One plastic which went up about three weeks ago and now the real one, our house looks like Santas grotto!

For my FET I had a different down reg drug to my fresh cycle and suffered with it, a lot, which I thought might have been a good thing. I also gave up alcahol, caffeine and fizzy drinks when I started my down reg drugs so about two months ago I also had accupuncture and exercised more, mostly walking my 2year old border collie the good thing is that she loves to walk for miles! Did you have any specific things that you did on this or your previous cycles?

I called the clinic to let them know the result but had to leave a message, I wish they would call me back I need to get it over with.

What are your plans for Christmas?  There will be 9 people including DH and me at our house for Christmas, and 6 dogs! That's right six! My DH sister has three so added to our respective parents dogs and our own there are a lot of them! I don't know what I was thinking! Well I do, my DH is from Belfast so if we weren't hosting the family we would be going there, by boat so we can take the dog and that is a very hard trip not one I  fancy right now as there is way too much time to think in the  car. Fortunately there won't be any children or babies as I don't think I could take that!

What are you doing at Christmas?

Pudding
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## Pudding34

So I got a call back from the clinic and they want me to carry on with my drugs and test again on Wednesday.

It seems so pointless to me as we had the positive test on Friday so it's most likely a chemical but as they don't recognise an early test it is as if it didn't actually take place and their protocol is to test again on day 18. 

It's like another slap in the face really and they said I don't have to do it if I don't want to but I guess I may as well.

I was lucky to get a nice nurse to talk to and bless her she let me unload all my feelings on her not that she had munch choice except hanging upon me as I was like a mouse on helium! Still got my sense of humour huh, they can't take that away from me as they say!

Anyway she got us a debrief appointment with our consultant in January which was lucky as they must have had a cancellation because the next appointment after that was end of February, she also gave me the number of one of their counsellors, we haven't done counselling so far, have you seen a counsellor?

Pudding
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## Tiffanymi

Hi pudding thanks for the message. It must be so difficult and confusing to test again. I hope for some reason some positive results come out of thus for you. I know though, that it may be difficult though. It seems you and I are in different ways, going through similar things. 

Glad you have a full house in December and no dogs!!  I am going away with some family....kids included, whicheill ge difficult, but also I love these kids so much, may be a good thing. 

I havent been for counseling, but think my brain feels like exploding, I should start. I also am geting upset with those closest to me as I feel they don't care....perhaps Iam being over sensitive as well. 

Don't you feel the wait for a debrief session is ridiculous!!

I have decided: going to another clinic and eating healthier. Need to move forward next year. If I need DE I may need to that as well. 

All the best pudding let me know about Wednesday. Thinking of you

Ps I know howit must have felt to feel all is ok and then to remember the BFN. You can get strongere again. I had a few replies on my had of people who have tried and hit BFp after more than 6 tries....we can't give up...  
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## Pudding34

Hi Tiffany

I'm sorry to hear what you said about those closest to you not caring, what do you mean by this?

I'm lucky I have a great support from my family and close friends but none of them can ever really understand how it feels and quite often say very stupid things that make me want to slap them, for instance my friend who had the baby when I started to bleed last time called me about a month after and asked me how I was doing and I said I was still finding it so very hard and feeling really depressed about the cycle failing and also the utter hopelessness I was feeling and she told me, I still can't believe she actually said this to me, she told me that she totally understood as she had postnatal depression so can sympathise with how I felt!

She just doesn't get it that it is completely different, not better or worse but different. What she said to me is that she has the one thing I desperately want and may never have and she got depressed about it! Unf$#*ing believable!

The wait to see the doc seems endless hopefully Christmas will distract me from thinking about it for a week or two!

You should def see a counsellor you have been through so much and offloading all that pain will make it seem less sharp if nothing else.

I have a friend whose mum is a counsellor and she is everybody's agony aunt she always helped me to see the answers to things and whilst here are no answers here I think it will really help!

My DH could have knocked me down with a feather this evening when he said he would come with me to see the counsellor, he has always been very against talking about his feelings with a stranger being from Belfast he is hard and it just isn't the done thing! But he has said he will come "for me" which is a huge step forward!

Pudding
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## Pudding34

Hi TIffanymi

Hope you are doing well today.

I have taken the bull by the horns so to speak and booked a consultation at the Lister for immune testing for Thursday of this week which seems really soon although hopefully we might get some of the results back before our follow up at our clinic at the end of Jan which will really help.

Also you could have knocked me down with a feather but my DH has agreed to try accupuncture and to come to the counselling with me, last time we had the chemical he had to go out of the country for a week the very next day so he didn't see my reaction and how utterly devastated I was, my parents put me back together while he was away so I was more of a functioning wreck than I was for the first week when he got back, this time he has seen everything and I think it has really effected him.

He has also promised a better exercise routine and was up a hour earlier than usual today to walk the dog with me, how long that lasts will leave to be seen however the fact that he has agreed to counselling and accupuncture is a huge step forward.

Pudding
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## Tiffanymi

Hi pudding34. I'm so happy that you are taking the bull by the horns and being positive and proactive. I can't imagine how difficult the wait must be to see the doc. Your DH seems to be supporting ou alot, I am really happy for you. 

I don't know where I would do immune testing here. Is immune through your usual IF clinic!? Or who does this?

Yestday I was just feeling uncared for by toes close, but the truth is they do care, they just are unsure what to say...li was just feeling extra sensitive. 

I have booked at another clinic, asked for my file, and am going to need some serious tests and changes done before my next

Also want to read some books to prep my body and mind. 

Glad you and your DH are gaining support and strength through each other!!


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## Pudding34

Hi TIffanymi

My DH is supportive, in the past he has been very hesitant to do too much of what he believes to be alternative like accupuncture but I think the second failure has concentrated his mind a bit more.

Whereabouts are you?

The clinic we are going to use for the immune testing is the Lister in London.

I know what you mean about being extra sensitive, I think we all feel that way after a negative cycle. I hate when people say they know how I feel when actually they don't. It's very annoying and I feel my temper fraying over  it very easily.

I have also found especially today that when I asked my DH to do something for me and he didn't I was unreasonably annoyed with him. We just have to accept that it will take time for our emotions to balance out again!

We are thinking of booking a holiday for the new year, a change of scene may help us to process all the emotions together!

My DH wants to get another Puppy, we already have a 2year old border collie, she isn't quite sure what is going on and is very clingy with me, and whilst I would also like another Puppy I am worried that I will crash down again  and not have the love and time for a needy little Pup, but it might also be good to have another little fur baby to help me through all of this, they take a lot of time but they also give you so much back. Do you have any pets.

Pudding
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## borntobeamum

Hi ladies i also am struggling to cope with bfn. Feel like im a failure and that in broken


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## Pudding34

Oh Borntobeamum your post has reduced me to tears mostly because I know exactly how you feel.

The sadness, the desperation, the anger.

It won't matter how many people tell us that it isn't our fault we still feel that way in our hearts.

I know in my head that I am not a failure but the message just isn't getting to my heart and it hurts so badly.

I spoke to a counsellor last night, as recommended by our clinic, and she told me that just to get to transfer is a huge success it doesn't really help at the moment but I am hoping that it wil in the future once I can grieve for our loss properly.

Was this your first cycle?

What issues are you dealing with?

My DH has a low sperm count and we have now had two chemicals so we are investigating immune issues. We were lucky to get an appointment for tomorrow with a new clinic as ours doesnt do immune testing but I feel like I need to find the answer.

There may not be an answer and that is what scares me the most.

Do you have somebody with you today? You just have to feel the pain and let it out, sounds corny I know, I never said things like that before we started this process and now I am full of these cheesy platitudes so I apologise for that!

Hopefully talking on here will help you if only to let you have a vent and to know that there are people feeling the exact way that you do.

Big hugs

Pudding
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## Tiffanymi

Hi pudding. I am in SA no pets. But I do want. I think some time away will be great for you to unwind and so glad you are going for counselling. So important. 

Born to be a mum, I'm do sorry you are struggling. Words can't describe the inner pain a BFN brings. The only thing we can do is nit give up and try and try again until we are able tobreach our goal....but I know exactly how you feel, it's so hard to be down there and wonder if it will ever happen. sometimes, you just need to let it out and speak to people....even if we are faceless....I am also particularly feeling it around these holidays, and will be away with people who all have kids....will make it more difficult. 

How are you feeling tonight?


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## Pudding34

Hi TIffanymi

Could you have pets, I know some people don't live in pet friendly environments or have the time for them so it's not an option but if you do I recommend it, my little fur baby is so loving  and looks after me, she hates  it when I cry and climbs up to "kiss" me, yes she licks my face but  in a totally loving way!

Borntobeamum I hope you are feeling a bit better today, if you aren't that's okay too.

I was on such a high on Tuesday after arranging the immune tests but have crashed back down again now and found it really hard to get of bed this morning.

DH and I are going to the Clinic this afternoon for the first consultation for immune testing and am feeling really nervous, what if they can't give me the answer I am craving so badly!

Hoping you both are feeling okay.

Pudding
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## Tiffanymi

Good luck pudding, I hope this yields the results you need. Can ou let me know what immune testing entails and how it works. My doctors have never suggested it. 

At the moment, we not home often so a pet may not be practical...I do want one though so maybe will reconsider. 

Sorry to hear ou had a bad day, but hopefully, you get some different perspectives with the immune testing. Good luck!!


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## Pudding34

Hi Tiffany

We had the appointment this afternoon and I think it went really well.

They were happy to accept the old results from our other clinic so that gave us a good head start.

They want to do the following tests. (Please remember I'm not a medical professional so forgive me if some of what I say here isn't 100% correct as I had a lot of new info thrown at me today!)

Tests for DH
1. Karotyping for abnormal chromosomes to see if perhaps we have created abnormal embryos which is causing the failures as abnormal embryos won't continue.

Tests on me
2.  Thyroid function test as even a small fluctuation could cause a problem which can be altered with steroids.

3.  Blood clotting tests to see if my blood is clotting normally as if it isn't it can prevent implantation completing.

4. Natural killer cell testing, if these are elevated or especially toxic the immune system will prevent implantation completing this is also treated with steroid therapy.

If all of the above come back normal there is a hysteroscopy, internal camera, to see if there is damage or a polyp that could be causing an issue.

He has also advised that I request additional progesterone support by injection on a future cycle as perhaps my body is not assimilating the pessaries properly and an endometrial scratch to encourage my body to completely regenerate my lining before a transfer. I'm not sure if my clinic can or will do this but it is worth asking to find out.

It has been a really stressful day as my train into the city was cancelled and so I was running really late luckily DH was already in the city for work so went and got the registration stuff done and the clinic was really understanding! It was the last thing I needed as I was feeling pretty rubbish this morning as I had some really vivid baby dreams and didn't sleep well so the stress of the delay nearly knocked me over the edge and I almost started crying on the train, but I got there in the end.

Wow sorry for such a long post!

How are you doing today?

Borntobeamum how are you doing, not heard much from you are you doing okay?


Pudding
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## ayah

Hi pudding and tiffany, 
Hope that you dont mind my joining your  thread. Please just say if i am butting in, i wont be offebded. Joining in this far through feels like eves dropping. Pudding i spoke with u yesterday in d chat room.  Some reason gives my user name there,  Ayisha, not name want to be used. 

As my signature shows my lest BFN was sept, day of 2nd anniversary of uncles death.  It a sad day at work too, as one friend lost her dad and another her brother in law.  Same day same year.So wanted the day to have a good memory too.  Alas it was not ment to be.  

I still feel numb three months on.  As you know i still have a son.  5 yrs old next month, but i have been in both of your shoes.  I was 24 when i started the journey, with many kicks in the teeth before the final joy 7 years on.  It now 12 years since i started and stillbputting myself through it.  Not for my first miricle, but for my sons first miricle.  Much to my supprise its now harder, it not about me and my hub joy, but about my sons joy.  Sure that must sound stupid to you where you are.  Sure if i,d been told that 6 years ago i would do.

But keep hope, it can happen.  I am  proff and i really feel for you both.  Tiffany, i too can feel very unsupported.  Husband doesn,t get it at all, don.t feel i can talk to friends,. i dont  want to put them in possition of not knowing what to say, then saying something hurtful in an attempt to help!

Pudding please dont be to hard on your friend with post natal depression.  No, she does not know why you feel the way you do.  But i also had post natal depression.  You are right she has what you dont.  But she may also  feel no one can undersrptand.  She just had a beautuful baby, the best thing in the world.  What many woman can only dream of, right?.  But she cant enjoy it.
I felt a failour, after so many years trying i got what i want but still not happy.  I must be mad, no one understands, how could they.  Who can i talk too? I wanted to cry, eat, cry, hide, 
I did not trust my self to look after my baby, what a failour.  Maybe i should never had him. I felt alone, dispair. Who could understand how i felt? 

Some of that sound how you feel now? Not the reason why you feel it, but the emotions.  she does have some insite.  And she did not want to hurt you but to try and bond with you, empthise with your pain.  She is your friend and wants to not just listen to you, but share with you, be there with you.  She may have felt relief that someone else feels those same  debilitating feelings.


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## vickster_77

Sorry to jump on your thread ladies, but just been having a read and your appt at the Lister sounds very interesting Pudding!  We've had two BFN's now and planning a 2nd FET in Jan with endo scratch, but have NK testing at the back of my mind and the karotyping for abnormal chromosomes for DH. Would you mind telling me how much your tests are with the Lister - PM if you prefer?? Just thinking about having them done as a back-up plan!!! Thanks Vxx


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## ayah

Sorry, my stupid tablet started playing up.  I accidently posted before I could read my post.  I am dyslexic so need to check both spelling and what I write is what I mean.  Not good with written words.  So then the tablet logged me off and would not let me on again.  Then remembered had appointment at 12:00 so had to run.  Now on laptop and still having trouble.  Also getting used to site and had not read page two of posts. so what I wrote my be irrelevant or insensitive to what was said next.  Just wanted to explain and apologise.  Also there is no "take care" at the end.  

I have to go out but really wanted to apologise for the way my last post cut off.  Hope to read all post later and reply properly.  Thank you with your patients with my IT incompetence!

Take care
Ayah


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## Pudding34

Hi Ayah and Vickster you are both most welcome to join us!

I understand what you are saying Ayah and in no way would I ever belittle post natal depression, we have another friend that suffered from it really badly and saw how frustrated she was that she wasn't having the feelings that she thought she would have after having her baby, however I can't see how it can be the same as the sadness you feel over infertility especially just after a failed cycle.

Neither is worse than the other just different. I wouldn't profess to know how my friends felt whilst post natal and that is the difference in my mind, by saying she knew how I felt it kind of made me feel like my feelings were being dismissed, which could have been me being overly sensitive but again that is something we can't help isn't it!

I think you are right she wanted to bond with me so I wouldn't feel so alone but in an awful way it had the opposite effect! People really don't know what to say do they and so they say what they think you want to hear which is usually how they know somebody who tried for years and then went on holiday/moved house/adopted/just stopped trying and it happened naturally!

The worst offender of this is my DH's boss although very much well meaning he has 4 kids and always has a new platitude just like the above and DH has to smile and nod and say "really that's amazing I guess we should try that then" luckily DH is moving into a new position soon so will be able to avoid him to a certain extent!

Vickster I have sent you a PM. Just like you this testing was our back up plan in case our recent FET didn't work and it has really given me a new focus which I desperately need!

Tiffany and borntobeamum I hope you are both doing well today!

Pudding
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## ayah

Hi Pudding,

I agree with it all.  Thing is English is a funny old language as are the people who speak it!  How often do we reply quite joyfuly that we are "fine/well thanks"on being asked how we are when  we have a stinking cold or want to curl up and cry for a week or are so weak we fall asleep.
,When some one says they knowv how you feel, they may just mean the symptoms not the illness or caurse.  Prehaps if your friend was in a rational state of mind she could chose her words more sympathetically.

But there is a comon link of those pescy female hormones.  We have suffered real loss, that most people dont get.  They think It not even a baby just some cells!.  But the suffering is harder to bear due to the hormone manipulation.  In pregnacey that is natural manipulation, tx is unnatural manipulation.

I clearly dont know her case, but when pregnant and post natal it can be that the fear of lossing that child feels almost as real as actually lossing a child.  I can no longer read of a childs death or harm, without lossing the plot in tears.  I can clearly imagine lossing my child and truely grieve every death i hear about.  Sounds stupid as it is not my loss.  We are human and can draw from own expirence to get some insite to how others may feel.  If we could not do that we would not care for anyone but our selves.  

But i feel that i am bashing you when you are down.  Sorry.  My councillor said a normal part of grief is feeling paraniod about what people say to us.  Sometimes  it helps to try and hear the intended message.  Not easy when pescy female hormones are ruling the head!

But that aside some people do say stupid things and seem to be able to time it so wrong too.  My hub has stopped contacting a friend, as after he had his 2nd  child he kept saying how he wanted more kids.  That his wife was happy for him to marry again to have more, AND that it was so important incase one child died, so the other was not left alone! Please,!

Then a patient said to me, oh you must have more it so unfair to have one! This was a couple of weeks post bfn.  Oh and as for my gran. For the last 10 years its been, so when are you going to have a baby, hurry up!

Sorry so long.  

When do get results back pudding?  Pray you get some useful answers that lead to success

Love ayah


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## ayah

Today has been quite a yoyo of emotion.  Woke on a high having met some wonderful women on my first chat room encounter here.  Then crash and am relived that hub will call GP for my appointment.  The receptionist, always asks why!  It non of there concern!

Sink further, eat way to much and join this feed.  Full of emotion, on reflection, i am trying to deflex, rant on about, well you can read if you want.  Sorry pudding.  You caught my deflection.  

See GP, worried what he will say this time.  Last time, he suggested that if tx too hard to stop tx or have long brake, and try once a wk instead.  He looked very young so might not have learnt about ovultion cycles.  I know he was trying to help! Last time he had reluctantly signed me off.  I felt like he thought i was just making it up.  

But no this time he suggested i needed another month off.  I was glad, but also feel guilty, and ashamed for not being able to hold it together.  Got home, cried in bed for an hour.  Went online to shop, blubbered over babys in adverts, only to laugh at babys on, u been framed later!

Just wish i could be consistant.  Think that hub thinks im putting it on. Just want a hug.  Pudding do you hire out the fluffy baby?

Hope you having an easier evening, but if not my huggs to you all.


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## Pudding34

Ayah 

You don't need to apologise Hun, although your sentiment is appreciated.

You have seen both sides of the fence and that just seems so unfair on you!

The yoyo effect is something I can truly identify with! All this week I have been either super high and excited about the new tests and the answers they will hopefully give us to help our next cycle work and then I just freeze, I can't motivate and I just sit at my kitchen table staring into nowhere or crying my heart out! So now I'm all puffy on top of everything else! 

My DH has been really amazing, I think I have said this on the thread already but he had to go on a business trip straight after our first BFN so he didn't see what effect it had on me, my parents helped me to start functioning, albeit on a basic level, by the time he got back, but this time he's been here and watched me dissolve into a puddle over and over again. I'm lucky because DH works from home so I can go and ask for a hug if I need one! 

But here is the thing, you need to let your other half see how you feel and ask for their help! Men's instincts are to protect so we have to let them do that. I think that last time, due to unavoidable circumstances, my parents were the ones to help me so I think he felt a little bit redundant and it bruised his ego. This time it has been me and him and I think it's brought us closer together.

I'm actually waiting for him to finish his first Accupuncture session which he would never have done before so we have made a giant step forward.

Keep talking, to your DH and on here you can rant here anytime you want!

Big hugs

Pudding
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## Tiffanymi

Hi pudding and ayah

Sorry have been so busy last 2 days. Ayah, glad to have you join, the more the merrier! 

Pudding thanks for that immune info. Going to new clinic and am going to ask them about that. I have always had immune problems and may be feeding into it. Hope they can look into these. It's frustrating that we need to research and make suggestions to our clinics and they dont suggest these things to us, it really is. 

Ayah, thanks for your words and open ess, I can feel you are in a sad place at the moment and obviously been through alot as well. 

Today guys, has been hard. I am feeling quite I'll after BFN, bleeding and ovaries are so painful I can hardly move, also feeling disorientedd and flu ish. I am also admitently sad sad sad.....I need to get into a better mental state but it is just so so hard.


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## Tiffanymi

Sorry pressed send

Thanks for the messages and hope you guys had a better day

Pudding, I know how the ups and downs can be so emotionally aiming as well...xxx


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## Teeinparis

Just having such a hard time with my first cycle.  After an early false positive followed a few hours later by negatives....just heart broken!  Any advice.  I know it is worth it, but after 5-8 years of trying.  Trying to lose weight for all that time and not succeeding.  Having finally succeeded in some - but now in the last two years my husbands fertility at 39 is really bad.  Just at my wits end!


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## Pudding34

Hi Teeinparis

If it's any consolation I think all the ladies on here know exactly how you feel.

You can see from my signature that we just had our second BFN on an FET and it is heartbreaking.

My DH's count is also low and we are now pursuing further tests including Karotyping for DH and immunes testing for me, there is a further explanation as to what this entails previously on this thread which I posted  on Thursday have a look and see if you think that it might be worth having those tests done if only for peace of mind that you have looked at all the angles.

Doing further testing cannot change what has gone before but it might help a future cycle work and I can tell you that it has given me focus and hope this week.

We have had two early positives that turned BFN on OTD and I can identify with how much harder that hits than just being BFN but it could point towards an immune issue that you can address as you may have had implantation that just didn't complete for some reason.

Having this happen at this time of year just seems so unfair and I am finding it terribly hard to deal with all the Christmassy stuff and in particular the sympathy of our families who cannot be avoided as we are spending Christmas together but our families and friends, not to mention our DH's are only trying to help and we have to let them in and accept their help with dealing with this terrible time.

I have found much comfort from the ladies on this thread and if you want to rant or ask anymore questions about further testing I am here and happy to help.

Please stay strong and remember to take good care of yourself! You talked about losing weight which is admirable but I hope you aren't using that as a stick to beat yourself with as it is unlikely to have been a factor in your BFN.

Tiffany I am too feeling under the weather, I'm bleeding quite heavily and feel all fluey but I have to shelve my personal issues and am now off to clean our house from top to bottom before 7 people and 5 dogs arrive for Christmas! Oh joy! Luckily I have a Bah Humbug hat to wear so at least I will be showing my true emotions! (Hopefully my suffering on that front can at least serve a purpose of making you all smile!)

Big hugs to you all we can get through this "joyous" time if we stick together!!!!!!

Pudding
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## Pudding34

Evening all!

So on top of everything else our little fur baby has cut her little pad, it's not the first time it's happened and apparently where we live is very "flinty" so she is likely to catch on something sharp plus she is a delicate wee thing!

I noticed her limping every now and then earlier in the week but when she stopped doing  it I thought it must have been nothing but it wasn't and now I feel terribly guilty that I didn't take her to the vets straight away.

It's only a small cut and It wasn't bleeding but still, I would have been more paranoid before, I feel like I have neglected her a little.

DH says we didn't as she stopped limping but it's still there in my mind adding to the other things I can't help feeling guilty about!

Sorry if this post sounds daft, I know she is a dog but she really is my fur baby and even more so now, as she has looked after me this week and doesn't really like to leave my side especially when I am upset!

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

Hi teen Paris, it is so hard to feel the way you do,...we do understand, unfortunately sometimes, time is the hardest thing...eg age. I feel the same. Sometimes even if you are younger, your eggs are much older as well. I age with pudding, hat we can never turn the clock back but can try change things for future

Pudding, I'm so sorry about your dog, it doesn't sound insane at all!!!! I hope everything is ok. Sounds like you have so much in the o at the moment...

As for me, you can see. Have had 3 weeks of depression on here, and. Have decided, no more!!!! It's holiday, I am so stressed the whole year. And even if I am pretending to myself, I have decided to enjoy it. I work so fkin hard all year and have such a time consuming job, I am snapping out of this TTC depression and moving on mentally for my own sanity. 

Going away in a week and will indulge in wine, food, and company. I saw my sisters kids today, I had been hibernating from them because of my BFN....but truthfully, as sad as it was, it was so nice being around them,,,,I really live them and enjoy time with them and if I can't have my own for how, at least I have some connections to kids I live. Trying to be positive and changing clinics have apt next yearm has helped as well. 

Who knows guys, I may just be trying to convince myself but for now, I need to enjoy the festive season or when I'm back at the stress of work, I am going to regret it....

Having said that, psychedelically, I know it will be a tough time I am going to do everything to try to forget, just for this moment....2014 is going to be better,,,it has to be.  Hugs to everyone. Xxxx


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## ayah

Hello girls,

Been avioding site over weekend.  Got a bit reply happy, trying to find my place here.  Not wanting to hurt feels of others but learn to express mine.  Had posted on another trend and was hammered by a woman.  Ive been in tears most of day over  it.  Someone else had jumped to my defence, that had started an argument.  I wanted to explain my hurt and understanding of their pain, and appolgise.  Next i see poor admin have had to jump  in!  

Been scared go look else where, and decided no more FF.  Scared to have offended people here too.  But my lovely Pudding, i feel a closeness to you, since you indirectly thretened to get someone to cover me in alcohol and set me on fire!  For Tiffany and paris, i had wanted to steel the great name with christmas in front.

So glad i did.  Your kind words of empathy, despite your raw pain, have made me smile.  Pudding, i had a friend who joined in all the kiddy talk at work (pre my DS arrival) with antidotes of her puppy/dog!  They are supprisingly similar!  But don,t feel too guilty, at 2 years i broke my leg at xmas time.  Three days before they took me to hospital!.  Look i cant even say my parents and called them "they".  Had no idea i was still cross about it!

Enjoy the family time.  And give fuffy baby a hug from me.  I also understand the sorrow of parents who neglect wounds!  So lovely to have a friend who can just give a loving hug.  

Tiffany so glad you gonna have some tx time out fun.  Heres to us all having a betterc2014!

Paris, sorry i have poor memory so forgot you full name.  Ivf is a shock to the system, so much harder than you think.  Had iui before, but ivf is on another level, which you dont really get warned about.  Tx can be life stopping, so im gonna try Tiffanys approach.  I Dont celebrate christmas, so no family get togethers to aviod till new year.  It my grandads 90th birthday on 1st jan. So a little get together (he and nan very frail) and ill be meeting my cousins three week old baby.  He not even married, how did that happen?  Happy and anyoyed at one time is brain frying.

If you not on for a while, happy new year! Sorry for loooonnng post

Ayah


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## Tiffanymi

Hi ayah

I am truly sad to read you pr message. Everyone can express themselves on this site the way they want to. You should not gpfeel let down by your FF's. You certainly haven't insulted me. Sometimes, it is good to hear the truth and sometimes we all need a wake up call, even if we disagee. You are most certainly welcome on this thread and please don't feel any different. You should really not feel the need to be off at such a hard time of Christmas. 

At the end of the day, we are all hurt and wounded in some form, but we are also human and would like to connect with real people, no matter what their opinions. You have not indeed to hurt at all. 

So, this is just the message I hope you get, that from my side, I don't think you need to leave such a supportive group and mechanism, certainly mot our thread.....be Easton yourself, you areonly human xxx


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## Pudding34

Hi Ayah

I echo Tiffanymis sentiments. 

The purpose of this site is to support each other and we may not always agree and if that is the case then agree to disagree you certainly shouldn't feel attacked by those you consider your friends!

Incase anybody is wondering I didn't actually threaten to set Ayah on fire, it was a joke about being a Christmas pudding! 

I would be very sad to see you leave FF as Tiffany says this time of year is hard and we need to stick together to get through it! So I hope that you stick with us!

I had a really hard day yesterday, after all my busyness on Sunday I only had cooking to do yesterday and so had more time to think, couldn't stop thinking about how different things would be if our cycle had worked, I guess it is having the family here that is doing it! Had a few cries and cuddles with DH and feel a bit better today but know when rest of family arrives later it will hit me again!

Hope you are all having a good Christmas Eve!

Pudding
X


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## Pudding34

Evening Ladies!

I know how  hard the Christmas period is for all of us, I just want to wish you a lovely Christmas and new year!

Pudding
X


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## ayah

Hello me lovely ladies,

It was your great support despite your own pain, and despite me being one step further than you (so hope to see you on this side soon!), that made me want to have one last look.  And so corse you did not disappiont!  So you wont be getting rid of me!  

Pudding, i guess the gamily get to gether was "meant" to have the added happiness of your good news.  Must make it that much harder for you both.  (Tried to correct my typing error fro gamily to family, but could not get the cursor there.  Mind gamily get together, has a ring to it )

Teen paris how r you doing?  Guess your christmas was "meant" to be extra  special this year to.   And all you bfn buddies, whether a poster or not.  Hope you can still enjoy time eith family and friends.  That BFN might have taken your dreams away this time, but dont let it take away  your family fun times too.  Cry those tears, ffel that pain, put it in a box for later and let yourself live ,  enjoy be happy, for a while.  

 and  too all.thank you once again my FF

Ayah xxx


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## ayah

Oh my, will i never get used to this tablet.  That prayer face is meant to be where  the word has been written 'prayer' .  Not where it is making it look like i'm suggesting you need to pray with your family.  But if you do pray with your family, slop a note in for your FF's.  I mean slip!  Oh my, i hate this thing (tablet)  at times.  No slopping whilst praying please!

I'm off to pray for better typing skills  

Ayah xxx


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## Tiffanymi

Pudding, oh ok the fire joke makes sense lol. 

Pudding, I'm so sorry that you are feeling like this, it's such a hard time. I am with my familys kids and all the while it hurts so badly that I dont have mine, that I can't wake up on christmas and have kids to excite...a very hard time. I am sorry you are struggling as well xxx

Ayah glad you decided to stay. 

Merry Christmas everyone. Hope it brings some peace and hope our preyers will be answered in the next few months. And hope more than anything that next year brings the geatest gift we have all been waiting for. 

Tiff xx


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## ayah

Tiffancy, how could i keep away from all!  Sorry that you feeling so low.  Hope that your day gets little easier.  Feeling for you all today 
   

Ayah xxx


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## Tiffanymi

Thanks ayah. Survived today, still had a good Christmas...


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## ayah

Glad you still managed to have good time !  Glad you spent a little of it with me!

I've had two good nights sleep, first in many months.  Feel like a new woman.  Af due, so lets see if can keep it up.  

Hope everyone else has had a good day.

AYAH XXX


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## emz2402

Hi I hope you mind me joining in, I found this thread and it's made me cry just knowing that I'm not on my own. Me and my DH have been TTC for 3 years and 2 months. I had my first ICSI back in October which was a BFN I didn't realise how badly it would affect me. I had hope though as my clinic said I could start my FET before Xmas as long as my period came on or before the 29th Nov which I thought would be fine as I was due two weeks before then, well I was 2 weeks overdue and my period arrived on the 30th! I was gutted and I now start my FET in January now but I just feel so low, I know I should be getting my body ready for the treatment but I've lost all motivation, I barely sleep now I've stopped eating. Yesterday was the worst Xmas I've ever had and I feel bad for my husband as he is trying to be positive. I don't think it has helped that a close friend at work has announced she is pregnant and then another woman I work with announced her 2nd pregnancy 2 days after, I always felt like work was my escape but now it's full of baby talk all the time.

Sorry for the moan on it's just no one can really understand but you lovely people, I can feel myself starting to cry again just writing this. I just can't remember the last time I woke up and felt like everything was fine, and I worry that I never will!

Hope you've all had a lovely Xmas xxx


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## Pudding34

Hi Emz

Your post has reduced me to tears as well. I'm so sorry that you are feeling this way but I can assure you that you are not alone and we are all here to help one another through this terrible ordeal!

I had my first cycle in August which turned out to be a chemical pregnancy and I had an FET earlier this month which was the same. Christmas has been so different to how I had hoped it would be, I had hoped to be announcing our pregnancy to our families and floating on a cloud of happiness so anything less has been truly devastating for me!

We have had a very full house and I think I have done pretty well given the circumstances!

DH cut his hand last night putting the rubbish out of all things and we had to take him to the hospital to have a stitch put in which heightened my stress levels mercifully A&E was empty and we were straight in and out, so when we got back we watched the eastenders special that we recorded and I broke down when Kat told Alfie she was pregnant I just sobbed on DH's shoulder and nobody knew what to say or do and that is pretty much how I feel!

God I am crying right now like a loony! 

You are going to feel sad it's just normal you have to give yourself permission to do that and not be so hard on yourself!

Are you doing a medicated FET the drugs can really mess with your emotions!

You have a wonderful opportunity coming up and you have to embrace the hope that this cycle may work.

I don't think we ever get over the sadness of a cycle failing and really we are mourning the fear that we may not be successful in our pursuit for a family but we can find hope and joy in new opportunities! 

Wow I should write greetings cards shouldn't I !

Please keep talking to us all it really does help I promise!

Lots of Christmas hugs to you Emz and all our Buddies!

Christmas Pudding!
X


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## emz2402

Thanks Pudding your words mean a lot.

I know what you mean about the tv, I swear every tv programme I watch ends up having some kind of pregnancy story line in it. I cried at Homeland the other night because Carrie wanted to give up her baby for adoption! Who cries at Homeland?!

This past few weeks I've kinda indulged my bad mood and negativity but I know that come the new year I'll plaster my brave face on again and try and be a bit more positive.

Hope your DH is okay, we spend so much time at the hospital it's the last place you wanna be!

Well me and the DH have two weeks booked off end of February for my birthday so if the FET doesn't work the very first thing I'll be doing is booking a holiday!!

Thanks for the support xxx


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## Pudding34

You are most welcome Emz, I think we notice these things more when we feel a little raw!

Yeah DH is okay he was trying so hard to be helpful and  put the rubbish out, something sharp was in there and it carved his hand up, it only needed one stitch and then steri strips but apparently he is a bleeder so it was hard for the nurse to see how deep it was and the local anaesthetic hurt like hell and didn't help at all!

I'm being tortured tomorrow, DH has insisted that we go to a pantomime as it's a "family tradition" for his family (funny that we have been together for 4 Christmases and we have never been to a blinking panto) I can't think of anything worse, being trapped in a theatre with a whole load of kids and happy families that I may never have. But my feelings have to be ignored when his family is concerned. Forget about our negative cycle and the impact it has had on me as long as they can all play happy families and pretend that they go to a panto every year, which they do not and couldn't be further from the "happy families" image they like to project!

Uuuurgggghhhhhh Christmas is making me crazy, between the family members that refuse to help at all to the ones that do a little bit of washing up and carry on like they have spent the last three months preparing and making stuff for Christmas like I have!

Rant over thanks for letting me vent!

DH and it are off on a cruise in the new year, I can't wait! We haven't been away in a year and a half except for a family trip in oct which again wasn't a very relaxing trip esp as I was starting my down regs for the FET which really messed me up!

I told my Dad today that we are going to get another Puppy in new year when we get back from our trip and he told me to think carefully as if we have kids............... That really upset me as where we stand right now that not feeling very likely and I don't want to look back in a few years and regret not getting another little ball of fluff to love and take care of I also really feel I need something else to focus on right now!

Try to stay positive babes you have to think that it can and will work! I'm good at giving out advice I don't take aren't I!

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

Hi emz. Thank for coming on and chatting to us. I know waiting another month can feel like forever, it is so frustrating...it is true that we often do feel Aline but being on here has helped me feel like I am nit alone, even through the very difficult times. 

Pudding, I am also going on a cruise. Can't wait! I think you need to switch your mind off which will be nice. 

I had a hard day today, despite me trying to be positive. I often wonder if I am truly trying to be positive or just on a stage acting as I need to carry on with life...

Everyone has kids, is pregnant, and everything lately is about pregnancy and kids......,so so hard. 

Hope your day tomorrow is better 

Tiffxx


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## ayah

Hi Emz,  

Sorry that you need to join use here, but hope that we can help too. 

Pudding and Tiffany have really helped me.  Thanks again ladies.  I find it so imoprtant for me not just feel that i am not alone but also normal.  It can feel like "God, I'm so weak and out of control!" But i'm not.  We are not, this unfortunatlly is normal.

They really dont tell you or our parenters how hard it is on these drugs!  Then when your  worn out, emotional spent you get a BFN!Sorry that AF messed you up too Emz.  I guess the out side world is just "oh it only a few weeks more to wait"  but its not like that.  I can feel like i have no control over my body or emotions at times, and hence no control over my life.  My husband thinks that once you stop the drugs you should be fine, but it takes a few months and struggling with a BFN is so hard.

I've been off work for 6 weeks now.  Collapsed at work and been off since.  Feel like i cannot trust myself there.  My mind just cannot focous.  Think that the anti depressants are just starting to kick in.  We were meant to be starting icsi next month, but i can't face it.  Going to take a brake for a few months.  Need to regain my sanity!

Pudding, life is throwing it at you! Oh and panto right now!  Can't you feel sick before  you go?  Eat too much galexy chocolate and get the runns.  It does it for me.  Would have thought you bursting into tears at Kat Slater, would make it clear that a building full of happy families is the last place you need to be.  You must be worn out too, if  family are not chipping in with house work.

But for me a puppy sounds great, if you feel its right for you, then it is.  Like you say it is something to focus on and they give love with out unwanted advice! And they can keep an eye on baby so you can wee in piece.  Win win, whatever the future brings.
Glad the hand wound not to bad.  How is fluffy babys paw?

As for giving advice you dont follow, I'll be a member of that club.  Sometimes think i'm really telling myself not others. I dont often listen though!

Tiffany hope you ok, but if not my hugs and thoughts are with you.  As they are with you all..

I've had a right grump on today.  My poor husband has done quite well at not biting back for the main part.  Had two good days, tue and wed, so i think he thought all was well.  

Ladies, sorry for drone
Take care
Ayah xxx


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## ayah

Hi tiffany,  just seen your message.  It take me so long to write with this thing, that i startdd writing before your post was on.  Sorry it been another bad day. 

Know what you mean about the acting.  Even here it hard.  Read one thread and felt really positive.  Posted thanks, now im goona march on this cycle three!  Today i felt anything but positive.  and the method acting is just so tiring.

Hope you all get a good nights rest

Ayah xxx


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## emz2402

Thanks everyone, well I've been in such a bad mood all week I've given myself till Sunday and then I need to plaster on the happy face and try and pretend everything is fine as I'm back at work on the Thursday and I cannot turn up like this!

Pudding I hope your panto goes okay or has gone okay depending when it was today, I couldn't think of anything worse as well. As much as my DH has been really patient and understanding I don't think they can ever really understand what we go through.

I have to admit I was thinking of a puppy myself, we already have a cat which I love to pieces but I think a puppy could really give me something to focus on but the hubby is saying no as we both work full time and we wouldn't be in the house enough to look after it.

Ayah I know what you mean, one of the girls who is pregnant at work and knows what I'm going through said fingers crossed by the end of next ill either have a baby or be pregnant and when people say that I really have to bite my tongue as it really doesn't make me feel any better! This time next year seems a very very long way and I hate to think that I could still potentially be no further forward and still feeling like this - rant over soz! 

xxx


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## Pudding34

Emz, never apologise for having a rant at us, because really you are only voicing the same things we feel and the beauty of this site and this group of ladies in particular is that we don't have to apologise for getting  annoyed like we feel we have to to other people!

The panto was this afternoon which was even more of a slap In the face as it was clearly going to be filled with kiddies, which it was, in their cute little Disney dress up outfits and the first thing I did as I walked into the foyer was go to the toilet and have a good cry! The second thing I did was get a stiff drink form the bar and then pulled it together enough to go in and sit down.

It didn't end there as I was sat in front of a toddler who cried for his mummy the whole way through, every cry was a knife in my heart!

But I made it through and I a home now writing this to you with a glass of bubbles on the table in front of me!

Still dont understand why we had to go in the first place, well I do, it was so DH and his family who have only visited us twice in the last two years and didn't come at all when DH was in hospital 5 times in 6 months a couple of years ago, can pretend that they are like the Walton's in some sort of competition with my family!

Oh god, my sister in law has just told me that she is on clomid and so will probably be pregnant next time I see her!

This  is coming from the girl that told everybody that she hates kids and doesn't want them, my other sister in law thinks that she is only trying because we are! Everything is a competition to her!

Wow that was a huge rant wasn't it!

Got to dash now!

Will check back later!

Pudding
X


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## ayah

Emz, thar sounds like a plan,  just dont be hard on your self if the happy mask falls.  I thinks it helps to have a safe time/place, to let it all out.

Would a slightly older dog that is trained be possible?  I have no idea about dogs, just that i think they are wonderful animals.

I'm having a funny day. We went to sea life centre, I was not feeling to bad, then out of the blue started to cry.  Kept thinking i cant do this alone.  Hub not pulling weight at home.  Nothing new but today felt very alone, even though we together. Silly!

I'd like yo run this by you all.  We all to often feel the need to appolgise for a moan or slightly long post.  We blame ourselves too much.  So I'd like to suggest an appology free zone for rants.  

Hope the panto not to bad Pudding.  Tiffaney hope today was better

TC
Ayah xxx


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## ayah

Pudding, just read your post, after posting my post.  Try saying that after your bubbles!  

The panto Sounds terrible.  You did so well to hold it together.  

So your SIL thinks she just gonna get pregnant like that on clomid? Mmm. Not that i wish her to fail, just cos she winding you up.  Non of us wish our expirence on anyone else.  But i can see it a blow when you thought she not even want kids!  Had the same with too girls at work.  Came as a bit of a blow as they both got pregnsnt first month trying! One was 40!  The others sister had ivf though and she very supportive.  Which is good as she my line manager.

Cant see why the other one should feel the need to procrate just cos you are.  Does she just feel left out of the conversation?

Ayah xxx


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## Pudding34

SIL and DH have always been in competition, any thing you can do I can do better kinda thing, sounds crazy I know but at our wedding she showed off something rotten as her boyfriend doesnt ever want to get married again, she even heckled my speech at the wedding rehearsal and showed off about being asked to be a bridesmaid!

They are a very strange family!

Pudding
X


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## emz2402

I definitely agree with the apology free zone!! 

It must be so hard Pudding when you have family like that. Apart from my mam and dad I haven't told my two brothers and their wifes and as for my DH he refuses to even tell his parents so we always have to show happy faces round them which can be hard at times. I'm sure they must think I have an attitude problem! 

xxx


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## ayah

Families are strange things.  My hub wont tell anyone at all and hates that my family and some friends know.  I cant tell any of my friends whos husbands know him.  And i feel they think i got an attitude too.  His family are not in UK so at least i dont have to face them.  

I found out by accident that one girl i know was haveing ivf same time as me. She saw me at the clinic and thought i worked there.  Anyway when hub found out i'd spokdn to her he  was mad.  He knows her DH and didn't want him to know about us.  My hub thought it her with probldm but it MF in thier case.  It real shame as it might help my hub to share with him.  

If they know they give you grief and if they dont it no better.

When are they leaving Pudding?

Ayah xxx


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## Tiffanymi

Just a quick note to say I'm off on a 2 week holiday and may nit have reception. If I don't have a good new years and I will catch up on this thread when I am back n


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## Pudding34

Have a great time Tiffany!

DH's family will be here till Sunday so not long to go now.

I know what you mean about DH's not wanting to tell people, my DH was funny about me telling a few select friends but I needed to do it as they were pregnant and/or just had a baby so I needed them to know why it was so hard for me to cope with their happiness!

I am sure that it would help my DH to talk to other guys esp ones that suffer with MF but he won't he won't even consider joining a site like this to talk! 

Pudding
X


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## ayah

tiffany sounds great.   Have a lovely time!

Pudding mine the same.  They just keep so much inside.  Sometimes it helps to  offload to a nautral party.  I had a snoop in at the mens board and it was very practical based .  The only emtionalish based one i noticed was from a woman asking how she could support her husband (which is ehy i was looking).  Even that was very pracrtical advice, no feelings.  May be i find that strange as i'm so over loaded with way too many feelings.

I just think that part of coping is knowing it common and there are people there for you.  Maybe men talk in code about it, so we dont know.

Ayah xxx


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## emz2402

Have a lovely time Tiffany I'm jealous!!

I tried telling my DH about this site and he just can't understand why I use it and I gave up trying to explain how it helps as we almost ended up in an argument about it.

Well am I'm off to get my car serviced, who knows how much this will cost!

Have a good day everyone xxx


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## Teeinparis

Holiday!  Fantastic!  Don't come on here.  As much as it helps, I also think it doesn't.  I want to wean myself completely away and just concentrate on being happy and healthy, and stress free  

If only it were as easy to say it as it is to write it!

Tina


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## ayah

6emz my hub was the same.  Guess it a girl thing.  

Tina, i get it.  Sometimes i think it makes me think too much about fertility issues.  But right now it helping me.  Just remember you are always wecome if you need us.  I really wish you every success.  Please post on the site if you get good news. I'll be looking out for you..  here to health and happiness!

Ayah xxx


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## Pudding34

Tina

You should do what you feel is best for you and if talking on this site is just keeping it too fresh then taking a step back may help, I'm sensing that you want to force yourself to feel better but I don't think it works like that.

Perhaps you should try not to be so hard on yourself, feeling sad and looking for support wherever you do it is not a bad thing and I think you have to allow yourself to do that be it on here or with family, friends or a counsellor if you want a neutral party!

As Ayah says we are here if you want to talk or rant no judgement or apologies!

Emz I hope the car service went well and wasn't too pricey it's important to keep your car in good nick during winter!

My DH also doesn't understand what I get from this site! After our immunes testing consultancy app last week I went in the chat room to ask for some info and everyone was very helpful and reassuring, actually that was where Ayah and I met, and whilst he doesn't understand the purpose I get so much help and comfort out of it so it doesn't matter what DH thinks about it.

Pudding
X


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## Teeinparis

Hi, 

No judgement at all, just trying to find the happy balance between not thinking about this all the time, being hard on myself and looking forward.  So hard!  

I guess, I am getting the 'you must look forward' from my husband as well! 

How long do your cycles last after BFN....hoping to get my next period on time, but if this doesn't stop....

Suggestions


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## Pudding34

Tina

I meant no judgement for you no matter what you decide.

On the cycle thing it varys pretty wildly. On my first fresh cycle I got my period during the 2ww on my recent FET I was on progynova which held my period off until 2 days after I stopped taking it so it's so hard to tell really.

Pudding
X


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## Pudding34

Uuuuurrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh just had DH ask me if I intend to do anything today!

I needed some time to sort my head out after the pantomime yesterday so have been putting some holiday clothes to one side for our trip in the new year. 

Every morning since his family arrived I have done everything whilst he has slept in and now he has the cheek to  ask if I am going to pull my weight,  with is family!

He never does anything when my family is here and has to be forced out of bed then too!

On top of everything else I have to put up with I now have top it up with his attitude problem! Great!

I know I am a bit sensitive now but who wouldn't be!

Pudding
X


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## Teeinparis

Hi, 

Remember, he is going through this too.  Not easy to remember as it is our bodies taking the hits!  Try to relax and get together with him for a plan of action and attack.  If you can agree on this it will be much easier.  Also, if you are not up for taking the lead.  Say  

Tee


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## Pudding34

I am definitely aware that he is going through it too I'm just not sure he realises that I am going through it!

I have always been the tough one even before the IF issues and now I deal with the clinics and the appointments and I take on all the information and explain it to DH and when I can't take anymore I need him to take the lead with his family but he can't do that even for one morning!

We have had to shelve a lot of our emotions to host Christmas and it hasn't made any of it go away just delayed it coming out.

Taking me to a pantomime yesterday after I begged him not to buy the tickets has really left me feeling like I needed a little break and so instead of laying in bed like he has every morning this week I was proactive  and sorted out our dry cleaning for our forthcoming holiday and still I got attacked!

After our first cycle DH had to go away straight away after our BFN on OTD so he didn't see how terribly it effected me and this time I fell apart again but had to pull it back in to host Christmas so he thinks well it's all over now so it's all okay!

That was a long rant wasn't it! I feel much better now it's all out!

Pudding
X


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## emz2402

Hi Pudding, I think if that had been my hubby I would have exploded at him!

unfortunately I think it's just men in general. I'm the same from the beginning I've set up all the appointments and for a lot of my scans I went on my own. Even when I had my egg collection and transfer I had my mam with me. Although I have to admit I sometimes prefer him not to be there because the moment we arrive at the hospital he goes really quiet and moody which I understand is his way of dealing with it but doesn't really help me when I'm the one who has to sit with him!

Have tried to pick myself up a bit today, almost got carried away and bought a car!! I've placed 10 holidays on my short list so if the FET doesn't work next month literally the first thing I will do is book one of them!

Just think Pudding not long to go till the in laws are gone!

Emz xxx


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## Pudding34

You mean the outlaws!!!!

When he said that to me I told him to get out of my sight as I didn't want to fight with him and to his credit he did, we are all made up now so that is good!

We agreed that if our cycle didn't work we would go away too so we are we have booked a cruise to New York, Florida and the Bahamas and I can't wait!

I tried on my formal dresses for the formal nights on the cruise today thinking none would fit as I gained a lot of weight on the FET cycle and also I have had a lot to eat and drink over Christmas but was pleasantly surprised to find that even dresses I haven't fitted into for years fit me now! Very strange! I haven't worn a formal dress for about a year I guess so I must have lost more weight before I started treatment thank realised!

Pudding
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## ayah

Oh my, pudding and emz, I think that we are married to the same man!  I to get the quiet moody man at appiontments.  I too have to do all the listening and tell him what say said later.  I go to most  appiontments alone.  He would have me drive back fron ET if i didn't have GA, gets himself into such a state.

I'm off sick and he on annual leave but  I'm doing everything.  Oh it good to let that out!  Well got to go.  I need to do the washing up, hoovering, tidy, ironing.....guess it keeps my mind off things.

See you all later

Ayah xxx


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## Pudding34

My DH gets all moody at the clinic and despite my requests to stay calm so I can stay calm he gets annoyed at any delay and huffs and puffs about it, delays are unavoidable and there is nothing you can do about it, especially at the clinic sometimes things take a little longer than expected.

During our first embryo transfer he squeezed my hand so tight I yelped out and the nurse had to tell him to chill out!

His nervousness really didn't help me to relax, but I think he just gets worked up because there really is nothing he can do! It must be a very frustrating time for them!

Pudding
x


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## ayah

I read mine, the comments on DH's and clinic.  He just laughed and said, "so it normal then".  I have just inadvertantly given him an excuss to be like that!  

So i got half the washing up done, hoovered and then had to use the carpet cleaner on my new cream n teal rose rug, as someone else spilt blackcurrent juice on it!  What possesed me to buy a cream carpet, God only knows.

Hows the packing going pudding?  Not long till you get a nice quiet house and your DH back.

Emz so did you actually buy a new car, or just came very close to it?  I blame sales.  Now ladies i am completly blameing this on ALL of you.  So I've been dragged out to the sales, I'm paying and on the counter they have luggage pad locks and lockable case strapps.  Yes you guessed I bought enough for two casez and we have NO planns forca holiday! Got home wondering why oh why i bought them, then remembered your posts of cruises and far off destinations!  

Ayah xxx


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## Pudding34

That's a typical man response isn't it, I expect mine would say the same thing which is why I haven't mentioned it to him!

My SIL the one on clomid told me she got AF this evening and is now stomping round our house like a bear with a sore head! I want to be supportive I really do but she told me I don't know how she feels! No really! I don't understand how it feels to have the hope each month and the feel the crushing pain of it not happening and oh yeah I have done two rounds of ICSI both chemical pregnancies so that's right I don't understand!!!!

Think I will have another glass of wine!

Ayah perhaps the universe is telling you to book a holiday! All the signs are there!
I haven't actually started packing yet I am just pulling out some clothes will start packing tomorrow! Not sure it will all fit in my suitcase as I need to pack for two climates!

Pudding
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## ayah

If you need to strap the case together I've got two strapps!  And the locks are ok for USA.  

We have not been away for years.  It always been Algeria or France, where in laws are.  Got me thinking now  .  Needs to be cheap and not to far.  Anyone been to Turkey?

I'd like to believe that when the hormones die down SIL, will start to see how difficult it is for you, esp as it icsi and a chemical.  From what you say, though think thats not really going to happen.  Maybe DH will see that the emotions are normal, and give you more understanding?  If not you still have us.  You might want to suggest to her another support group.  You dont want to run the risk of her coming here, reading your posts and guessing it you!

Wish this thread did not have an advert for maternity clothing.  This womans bumpis right it my face.  Mmm feel bit sad now.  Need to go now and plan a holiday

Ayah xxx


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## Pudding34

The ads on here do sometimes rock you a little even the clinic ones, the joy of the internet!

My SIL continued to be very angry last night especially with her boyfriend who seemed to look bewildered as she yelled at him! I tried to calm her down but it seemed to make her angrier! I lost my rag in the end and told her that although I want to be supportive I won't put up with her having a go at me or telling me I don't understand because I do!

I also explained to her that although it sometimes seems like our other halves don't care that is just their way of dealing with things, this is something my lovely friends on here helped me to see! I also suggested seeing a counsellor and had a chat with her Boyf and said she will be irrational for a while and just roll with it for a bit!

Not sure if any of the above helped but I hope it did! Whilst my SIL is hardwork at the best of times I don't wish the heartache of IF on anybody!

So Christmas is over and I'm now looking forward to our holiday! A quick pitstop at my brothers for new year and them we are off! Yay!

Pudding
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## emz2402

Hi Ayah no I didn't buy the car in the end, I've always got to be careful as shopping always makes me feel better but unfortunately I don't have an unlimitless amount of money!

I'm glad you stood up to you SIL Pudding, I think if I ever did anything like that with mine then she'd never speak to me again!

Out tonight to see my best friend and 3 month old, it's hard but I do love him to pieces and I refuse to let myself stop seeing him, I plan on trying to be the best Aunty ever to him (so expect me on here late tonight in floods of tears!)

Xxx


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## ayah

Pudding good for you.  It must have been hard though.  It hard enough dealing with own emotions without having to cope with others.  It should be something you can get closer together over not push you to "argue"over.  Or was she just in compation with you?  Think I'd need a holiday after that.  I'd feel absalutly drained.  

Emz I can see it must be so tempting.  Feeling low must put extra preasure on you.  Does having something to save for help?  

All best with  visiting friend.  Sure I'll be here later. I plan to visit my best friend, who had her third last month.  Will be first time i've him as we live so far apart.  That will be a hard one.  Then will be seeing my cousins three week old for first time two.  Not going till tuesday but have been excited and aprehansive for weeks.  

See you later

Ayah xxx


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## Pudding34

Sadly SIL is used to being the centre of attention and when she isn't she shows off.

Having to accept that she isn't the only person in the world let alone the family going through something hard will be very difficult for her! I hope that it will help us to get closer in the future, she was very supportive when we first told her of the second chemical pregnancy but that was when she was convinced she would be announcing her pregnancy in a couple of weeks, it's hard when you first start treatment and realise it isn't a magical cure so it may take her some time to come to grips with it!

I feel for you both going to see new babies and I have to say I admire your strength.. I am still to go and see my friend who gave birth the day I had my bleed on my first cycle it just keeps bringing it all back  they live a far way away though so so far I have been able to blame it in scheduling issues both ours and theirs but I will have to step up to the plate in January, any tips on how to do this will be greatfully received!

I will be thinking of you later and will check on here if you want to talk either as a post or in chat room let me know if I can help!

Pudding
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## ayah

I had been quite aware of the world of infatility before i started, so had quite realistic views at first.  Time is taking its toll though.  But i forget that, like you say for many people it could seem like a quick fix.  So big shock when its not.  Dont know why but since a child i figured iit would not be straight forward as DTD and having a child or 100 (think that was when i was three!).  I had my plan b and c before i left school.  So no shock when i started the journey.Silly thing is now i have very unrealistic views.  Think its impatients.

Not sure i have much advice on visiting new babys though.  Think Emz got it.  Let you happines for your friend rule, till you get home and brake down in tears.  Go online to FF.

I have a firm rule for my life not to do jeulousy.  I feel it a wasted emotion that does not solve anything nor get you what you want.  I do feel my own loss though.  I think you have to feel your emotions, then move on when the time is right.  Ignoring them just makes it worse. So as long as your not jeulous of your friend, you can let your joy for them surface, knowing that you will give your sorrow for your own situation have its time later.  Does that make sence?  

I yhink the worse bit wilk be the jouney there.  Mind my car has come up with a  repair sign on it, so i might not be going anywhere!

See you later,

Ayah xxx


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## Pudding34

Evening Ladies!

Ayah your post was a lot more helpful than you realise I think, what you said about jealousy really resonated with me, I love my friend very much we have been friends for 16 years and so although I feel sad for myself and DH I hope I can put that aside and just be happy for her, if only whilst I am with them, I hope your visit was okay and the car too!

Emz hope all went okay with your visit too!

I have been thinking of you both today and sending you lots of positive vibes!

Teeinparis and Tiffany I hope you are both well!

Pudding
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## ayah

Hi pudding,

Thanks for the vibes.  I'm going darn souf till tuesday.  Not sure when I'll see my friend of 28ish years  (sorry could not resist the compation!) I will take the vibes with me.  

I think haveing the contadiction in my heart is a difficult thing.  It is not something that we often need to do.  At least not to the same degree as having children.  Glad the post helped.  Saying and doing are two different things.  Time will tell if i can follow own advice!  Your stiuation is different to mine and thinking back it is harder.  Just dont be hard on yourself.  Try to just enjoy visiting a good friend and having a good gossip.  

Is the friend the one with PND?  How is she getting on? 

Oh i had a look in the car manual and it just a sevice reminder.  We had it serviced in september when we got it but it was not ipdated.  Oh that wss a relief

How has today been, with an empty house?  And how is your DH wound?

Emz hope that your was fun and you not feeling to bad. Now.     to you.  I'm feeling quite tired, sorry i cant keep my eyes open to be there for you later, but i am thinking of you.

And of caurse thinking of teeinparis and tiffany too.  Hope you well.

Take care
Ayah xxx


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## Pudding34

Hi Ayah, you win then!!!!

It is the friend with PND and she seems to be doing pretty well as much as I can tell over the phone and txt messages!

Glad the car thing was okay mine was beeping at my a couple of months ago I took it to the garage and It was just a switch or some such simple thing, cars are so complicated now you can't fix them yourself like you could "when I was a kid" hahaha!

The house is weirdly quiet! We were awake at 6am and up at 7am to say goodbye to everybody so we headed back to bed for a little sleep!  After walking the dog and having a tidy up we have just been watching movies it's been lovely  and relaxing!

Fluffy Baby is missing her doggy friends and has been sulking for most of the day, refusing to eat her dinner and just sleeping, she always does this after her a while with her doggy friends bless her!

DH got his dressing all wet earlier so I had to change the bandage the would looks pretty brutal and has been  aching him but nothing too bad we will know on tues when the stitch comes out how it is!

Pudding
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## emz2402

Hi Ayah and Pudding,

Yesterday went well seeing my friend, me and the DH had a really good time and the hubby handled seeing the baby for the first time really well. It was a really good night as she is one of my closest friends. I almost had an argument with the DH as we got talking about the option of adoption in the future, he has always been pro adoption and I've always been negative about it but last night he was so negative about it and I'd said you've changed your tune to which he replied 'well I've had time to think about it, at least I don't sit on the fence like you' I was gobsmacked but I had to control myself as I wasn't about to start an argument in front of friends but he quickly apologised when we left as I think he knew I was furious!

We have a day off together today which is rare as he works in retail so it's a busy time but have to admit I'm finding it difficult to crack a smile. Emotions are such a roller coaster at the moment I never know how I'm going to feel. I'm actually looking forward to going back to work on Thursday as I think I need the routine of it.

Hope yous are having a good day today xxx


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## ayah

Hi pudding n Emz,

Pudding i was so tired last night, when writing post, that when you told me I'd won, i had no idea what  for!  Hope your friend is feeling better. PDN is like the fertility blues, up one moment down the next.  At least she has such a good friend, 

Poor fluffy baby, at least he gets of with the ILs!  Your DH wound sound painful.  Hope alls well tomorrow.  No signs of infection?

I loved my first simple car with the coach.  I cryed when it was collected for scrap!  My new car feels great but scares me with all the electronics.  My granparents bought it for me, as my money is earmarked for icsi.  So if the icsi works it like they bought use a baby.  (They spent more on it then they intended and i was clear that i could not pay them back, so I really hope next one will work , as it will be like a soecial thank you.  I do like togive myself more pressure.)

Emz so glad you both had good time at friends.  And you and DH now both feel the same about adoption.  Must be hard when you dissagree about something like that.  Shame he didn't tell you at a different time he'd had change of heart, but guess sometimes we say before realising what we are saying.  Oh and he appologised.  Mine just starts acting silly in why of an appology!  No idea why.

We want to adopt regardless of out come.  I always have.  But i also dont like the idea of social services in my like for the next x years.  My Gran is dead against it, but it a personal thing, that i think you just know in your heart if it for you or not.  

Hope you have a good day at work.  I always feel sorry for retail workers this time of year, they must be exhusted by the end of it.  And they only really get one BH.  

I'm off daan souff tomorrow and still need to pack, so my BFN buddys, incase i dont get online tomorrow, have a wonderful new year.  My 2014 be a fertile one, for one and all!

Take care 

Ayah xxx


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## Pudding34

Ha ha I know exactly what you mean about the car! 

My first car got crashed into by some silly 17 year old who passed his test 6 hours earlier and it was okay but wouldn't pass the MOT so when we got to MOT day I had to kiss it goodbye I was devastated, I saved for months for that baby and I looked after it really well!

That was about 15 years ago now and I still get annoyed when I think about it!

Fluffy baby has picked up now she is eating again and has been super duper affectionate today, she will be staying with my folks whilst we are away and she loves my Dad and Mum and their doggy and my uncle is also staying with them so I am hoping she won't miss us too much!

DH's hand is okay, we have been keeping it well covered and I haven't seen any signs of infection which is good, will know more at nurses appointment tomorrow.

I had a few wobbles today, I think really I shelved how I felt after the BFN when everybody arrived for Christmas and having such a quiet house now has just bought it all back up! DH and Fluffy baby have been looking after me and I feel a bit better this evening.

Our new clinic is not open again until the 2nd and I am going crazy wondering when our immunes testing and other test results will be back, they said a week for the longest test, the NK tests, and it has been 10 days now I dont know if that means we will get them back when the clinic opens again or if we have to build the Christmas closing in and add the extra days on? As with everything to do with infertility it is the not knowing that drives you potty!

Emz the whole adoption thing is a very difficult thing to wrap your head around isn't it, we haven't really talked about it properly I think really I am too scared to think about it, let alone talk about it and am still really hoping that these new tests will give us some hope for the next cycle.

I definitely know what you mean about the routine of work, I really miss that if nothing else about working full time. I was made redundant in August and we agreed that I would take some time out to focus on the treatment, I have been asked back in a consultancy role but that means I have to find my own clients etc and there is no real structure which is good in a way as it means that I can keep things quiet when we have another cycle but it also means I have lost the structure of a full time position so I have way too much time to think about things!

Ayah I hope you have a wonderful time away! Emz I hope you have a good New Years also what do you have planned?

2013 has been pretty sucky for us we are due a good new year!

Let's hope that 2014 is a lucky year for all of us!

Pudding
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## emz2402

Hope you have a great new year too Ayah!

I've nothing planned for tomorrow night, just got some nice food in and drinks to enjoy with the DH, I'll be lucky if I make it to midnight! Any plans Pudding?

There's nothing worse than when you're waiting on results. I'd ring them on the 2nd and hopefully they'll be able to tell you when to expect the results.

My period is due this week (not that that means anything at the mo!) for the past 2 days I've had a few cramps and keep thinking this is it, going to the toilet and nothing, our bodies like to play tricks on us!!

Wouldn't it be great if all of us managed to get our wish in 2014!!


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## Pudding34

We are going to my brothers house for New Years, we didn't see them at Christmas as they were with my SILs family.

It would be really amazing if we could all get our wish in 2014, stranger things have happened after all!

Pudding
X


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## Pudding34

Morning Ladies! 

Happy new year to you all!

I finally felt strong enough to tell my Partner (my old Boss who I know freelance for) and a couple of very close friends that we had the failed cycle and I have to say the response has been somewhat underwhelming.

I know it's not the sort of news you want to hear around new year but not even one reply, I sent txts as I couldn't face talking on the phone!

I know people don't know what to say and I don't know if I would be any different Iin their shoes but I am a little dissapointed! 

How did everybody's new year go? My SIL, not the one on Clomid my other one, and I got stinkingly tipsy and had a good old chat about everything which was so helpful to me!

Thinking of you all and hoping 2014 is all of our years!

Pudding
X


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## Pudding34

Hi Ladies

Well 2014 officially sucks already!

Our flights to NY were cancelled so I have spent the whole day trying to get a new holiday booked, what a total nightmare!

Finally got something booked and we have only lost a day!  DH's time off was not flexible and we need to get away so delaying was not an option as they say!

Could anything else really go wrong for us at the moment? I'm touching wood that it doesn't just to be on the safe side!!!

Truly hope you guys are having a better start to 2014!

Pudding
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## Teeinparis

Pudding.


Sorry to hear about the travel.  Not bad luck ar all, just winter in North America.  We didn't go home for Xmas as even my brother who is in Canada couldn't make it home due to a nice storm.

Part of the fun of travel.  Last time we went to Oz we had a 15 hour layover, missed our connection from UK to France to to a late leaving flight.  Ended up in the lounge waiting on another direct flight.  

You will have a fab time despite the day.  

Jealous you are getting away!  

Have fun.

Tee


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## emz2402

I hope you manage to get something sorted Pudding!

Sorry to hear that you've not received anything back off your friends. I imagine it is difficult to know what to say but something is better than nothing.

First day back at work today and it was a lot tougher than I thought it would be, spent all morning nearly crying and then to top it off the announcement of a third pregnancy in the afternoon.

On a positive note my period started today so can start the tablets for my FET cycle xxx


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## Teeinparis

Emz - you are so young.  Still a baby. This will happen for you.  Have you tried accupunture and fertility yoga at all?


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## Pudding34

Thanks Teeinparis and Emz we did get something booked so I can finish off the packing in a semi relaxed state!! See look at me being positive! I'm getting really good at making lemonade out of lemons!

Funnily enough Teeinparis I said something similar to DH, it doesn't matter where we are or what we do as long as we are together, it will be awesome, see more lemonade!

I think I was being a bit sensitive about my friends responses, got a really emotional reply from my partner this morning and one of my friends called me earlier, she had a baby in March and I was scared of talking to her to be honest but she was amazing. She told me she couldn't understand how I felt and just listened to me rant, I really needed that, more than anything else!

DH got a bit over annoyed about the cancelled flights and I have realised today that I think I forgot how hard the last couple of months have been on him as well.

Whilst typing this post I have changed the channel on the TV twice as people have been talking about being pregnant on TV shows is it a conspiracy do you think?

Emz, I can't imagine how hard the pregnancy announcement was on you, it so something I dread as one of my consultancy partners got married in August and I know she wanted to start trying soon after the wedding every time I talk to her I wait for her to say she is pregnant and I know it will destroy me all over again! Glad you have had some positive news about starting the next cycle though we have to see positives where we can don't we!

Pudding
X


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## emz2402

Hi Teeinparis, I tried acupuncture but never felt comfortable with it, I'm not sure whether it was the acupuncture or the person doing it. I've found a place closer to my work that does it and I'm thinking of giving them a go.

I have bought a fertility yoga DVD but never got round to starting it, it's trying to find the time.

After 3 years of trying and every single one of my friends either pregnant or with he children I certainly don't feel young!

Have a fab holiday Pudding xxx


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## Teeinparis

Emz

Try not to compare.  All our friends are my husbands age and have kids....I wished I looked t why it wasn't happening and did things sinner, but it is what it is.  Now is our time.  1/4 ivf works.  So keep saying that.  Plus,  try not to compare lives.  You have no idea the other struggles people have.  Having kids early - then you wind up divorced etc etc.  

I am confident it will happen for you.  You will get the child meant for you.  


What I keep on telling myself, life is not a competition, it doesn't matter if they did it first.  It is hard, but others having kids does not affect our chances or outcomes in the least.  Be happy for others and love you and your partner.  Good space will hopefully help.  Aw knowledge you are jealous, or upset, or other emotions - feel justified in those feelings then look to what you are doing.  And love yourself for it.  

Sounds crazy but will work.


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## ayah

Hi all,

Happy new year everyone.  Missed you all!

Tee, glad to see you still here, with wise words too.

Emz, hold on in there.  You really are so young, even if you dont feel it!  One good thing about FT clinic is they keep telling me I'm young at 36!  31 was my blessed year.  Tx is so hard but we got to believe in it like Tee says.  Just make sure the safety net is there in case.  But otherwise go be excited for a BFP!  Praying for you.  No pressure but would be nice if you start the BFN buddies off on a positive start!  But here what ever happens.  

I work in clinical research and i joke that the men will get BFP easier than me.  Whilst i been there lost track of how many babies born.  Some had two, one had twins, one had three and one had four, whilst i been there, trying!  But saying that there have been several in our position too.  One had hysterectomy v young, one adopted, one decided to stop, some have left country to try.  

Pudding,  oh my it one thing after another!  Glad those friends came through with d support you needed.  Hope you have a lovely holiday.

After all my apprihension, i could not see my cousins or BB babies!  So busy, whether bad and i wasnot well.  Nothing bad just didnt want to visit new borns with it.  

Saw my grandad on his 90th on new year.  To be honest think that sadder for me, seeing him and my nan ebbing away.  Not wanting to let go but hating to see them so frail and confussed.  I really wanted them to know all my children and my children to know them.  I had three great grand parents and i so glad i have good memorys of them.  I know I'm very blessed to have all my grandparents at 36.  Just have sad feeling for this year.  

My consenting visit is on Wednesday.  Cant face it to be honest.  I need to loss weight again, and really dont feel up to it right now.  I feel so negative about it.  Think I'll put it back till march.  In september i really thought i'd be ready.  This time has truely knocked me about.  Making myself cry now  .  Guess is cos i'm due on.  Day 31 and counting.  I dont have strick cycle so could still be another week, but my pmt/d seems to just go on longer.

Take care all.

Ayah xxx


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## Tinckler

Hey ladies, I hope you don't mind me joining you...

I too have had a failed IVF cycle. It was my first cycle and found out a day before my OTD when my period came although I had tested early and already sort of new it had t worked anyway as just had a feeling but you still hold that glimmer of hope. It was the weekend before Xmas so wasnt great timing and I felt deviated but then just had to snap out of it and Xmas was a good distraction for a couple of days but like you it wasn't the Xmas I had hoped for and was hoping/dreaming/envisaged going into the new year pregnant and finally being able to look forward.

Another blow was that my clinic advised I have to wait 6 months for another attempt, I couldn't believe it was so gutted just assumed it would be 3 months or something at the most. I know we were lucky to get the treatment on the nhs as so many people aren't that fortunate but after what seems like suchc a long wait trying to get pregnant 6 months feels like forever. It will be my birthday before then last yr I was so depressed on my birthday turning another year older and still not pregnant I so hoped this birthday would be v different.

Anyway I am rambling but has anyone else experienced the same and having to wait 6 months for their next go via nhs funding?

Ems


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## Teeinparis

I am in France.  It is different.  Funded but not 100 % for fe fees if he is private.  The nhs is diff from pct to pct.  I would suggest if you can afford a cycle private to do it in between.


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## ayah

Hi All 

I not been here for a while.  I have been so so low and tired.  Keep crying all the time worse than ever.  And just so tired despite sleeping.  Just had no engery for interacting.  I'm waiting for AF which is late, but thats not new.  That little voice of hope for the alucive (please read phenetically!) mirical nateral bfp has been nagging.  Dont know why it should be, in 12 years I've never had one and my cycles have been up to 11 weeks in the past though five to six normal. I am only 37 days so far. But I did it.  A cheap one you meant to dip, but i weed on it, and knock me down, yes mirical flaming natural BFP!!!!!!!

I am in complete shock.  I did the first at about 4pm. Then bought a clear blue conception predictor one and did that  and another cheap one 2 hours later.  ALL BFP!  Im shacking. Ive not taken folic acid, as on brake and had enough of pills n injections.  Ive eaten out of date cheese and put on over 2 stone in 4 months.  Drinking coffee like an addict.  I cant believe it!  I am close to swearing, which never do.  Im scared ive mucked up, what i had come to believe may never happen.  I canncelled my consenting visit till march, as i was not ready. Was meant to pay on wefnesday.  Still it early days.  Feel i cant get excited.

Thank you for listening.  Girls please dont give up hope.  Emz i am so praying to hear good news from you soon. How is it going?

Tiffany and pudding hope your holidays are lots of fun.

Tinckler, so sorry tohear of your BFP.  Being told you have to wait 6 months for funding sounds terrible. Ive been self funded at an nhs hospital ,and even then the waits are terrible.  Had no idea once one ivf was aggreed you still had to wait so long for second.  These girls here are lovely and sure will give you the listening ear and support you must need right now.  If you do try a self funded cycle, you might need to check that you wont then loss your funded cycle.  The nhs can be funny like that.  Any delay is a blow, but i guess it must feel even worse when getting on with pkanning the next cycle my help destract with this bfn.     

May i say a big fat thankyou ladies for your listening ears and support, despite your own situations.  You welcomed me despite still waiting for your first miricle.  And i do feell guilty  and am welling up , as i so want for you your own amazing familys.  I will keep in touch to see how you all getting on.  And if today is all a big dream, or i misscarry, i will be back very soon.

I appologise if my news giving was not good timing for any of you.  At ff you are my best ff's and i wanted you to be the first to know, almost before hub.  

Best wishes to you all and thank you so much

Love Ayah xxx


----------



## Teeinparis

Great news.  Gives us all hope!


----------



## ayah

Thank you Tee.  You not sleeping either or up early for work?  Makes me wish even more for you all.


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## Pudding34

Ayah I just logged on at the airport and read your post, WOW, I am so very happy for you and am sitting here crying with people looking at me like I'm a crazy person! it's so good to know that these things happen to people we (sort of!) know and aren't just urban myths, you have given us all hope that it is possible! I hope all goes well! Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Tinkler, welcome to the thread, a failed cycle is devastating and my second (first frozen cycle) was confirmed as a chemical just before Christmas so I understand the snapping out of it, not that I think we ever do that I think we just plaster a good face on to get through what we have to get through. Now that the festive period is over you may crash down again, I know I went through a lot of ups and downs especially after my first cycle ( also a chemical) and that is to be expected so if it does happen don't be too hard on yourself, it takes a long time to accept it and the hormones coursing through our bodies don't help! Have you considered counselling?
I didn't do this after my first cycle but having started now I wish I had, it gives you a way to vent and talk about things with an expert and not feel guilty about any feelings you have, like jealousy or sadness! Of course the ladies on FF and especially us on here are also available if you want to vent or ask questions and I have found this place and the wonderful ladies I have met have helped to get me through things, so any thing you want to talk about, doesn't have to be cycle related can be anything, just go right ahead and tell us!
Your wait does seem awfully long, I was lucky, in a way I guess, that my period began during my first two week wait it meant I could start he drugs for the next cycle a month later and didn't have to wait, I think that different areas vary wildly on their waiting times, one thing I will say though is that my first appointment for review after our first cycle was over a month after the OTD and I called and begged for an earlier appointment I just couldn't wait that long! I was lucky that I got a cancellation and I have got the same this time so am seeing the doc next week to discuss the cycle and where we go from here. Have you had your review yet? Sometimes clinics insist on giving our bodies time to recover which could be a beneficial thing although just feel like extending the torture right now!

We are headed home today and I am scared that going back to reality and our home will bring my devastated feelings back and I have been planning all the things I am going to do to stay busy and occupied but even that doesn't always work does it.

This will sound silly but when I got my chemical positives I took photos on my iphone, more to reassure myself that they actually happened, anyway my hubby and I were going through pics of our dog, who we have missed like crazy the last week, and there on the next swipe of the phone was a pic of the test from before Christmas, I won't lie to you it was like a sucker punch to the stomach and a bullet to the heart all at once, I almost fell off the stool I was sitting on. In my efforts to get away from it, I thought if I run it won't be there anymore,and it can't hurt me. DH said he can delete them from the devices, as they all back up to each other in this technology obsessed age, but I asked him to just file them safely away, deleting them would be like saying they didn't happen and they did.

So after depressing you all with that, time for some happier news, we have been looking for another puppy and we think we may have found one, hopefully  we will be going to visit and choose one from a new litter this week, presuming one of them is the right one for us he won't come home until February but it will give us something to look forward to and we can visit in the meantime and socialise him with our dog Kim.

Pudding
X


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## Tinckler

Hi Pudding34, thanks for your kind words. So to clarify are you NHS funded and didn't have to wait at all? My clinic told me its nhs and the hfea guidelines so same applies at all clinics. Gutting to know other clinics will start patients straightaway. My period started the day before OTD. No not had a follow up appointment yet not even received the letter from the clinic with the results they said it takes 4 weeks!


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## Pudding34

Hi Tinckler

We are NHS funded, for our second cycle which was a frozen one we had to just wait for my next period I don't know if it will be the same for a full fresh cycle which is our next step as we don't have any frosties left.

Did you have any frozen?

I think all clinics vary between local authority's depending on their NHS contract and waiting lists.

As I said in my earlier post I was also told to wait 4 weeks or so for a letter inviting me to make a follow up appointment but being the pushy person I am I didn't accept that and spoke with one of the nurse coordinators, I pled my case and begged for an earlier appointment and I was lucky to get a cancellation.

I'm not saying this will or won't work for you but my motto has always been, you don't ask you don't get! It might be worth a try!

Pudding
X


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## ayah

Hi ladies,

Thank you pudding.  I now know why my depression suddenly got worse after it lifted slightly. Was begining to think i was mad.

How was the holiday? Fluffy baby happy to see you? Didnt get caught in -30○C? Hows the emotions? Hope the brake has helped.  Lovely news about the puppy. Really wish we could get one, but hub and DS are allergic, and it woild just be me looking after it.  

Tinkler, I made my appiontment for post bfn the day i told them of the bfn.  They were both 4-5 weeks post bfn.  I would phone and get them to give you a date and time asap.    My ivf was self funded at an nhs clinic and the service is the same as funded.  As a nurse i would always say dont ever wait more than you are told you will need to wait.  And if it seems to long ask why.  The nhs is great but it is big and frankly ineffiant.  Nag and dont accept an answer you not happy with.  Ask to speak to a manager if reception and nursing staff cant answer a question.  As for funding over nhs it is different region to region.  And waiting times may vary depending on demand.  Speak to your PALS service.  There number will be on the web site.  

Hope that helps.  You need to speak to someone asap to get some answers.  I spoke to an embryologist  at first whilst waiting for appiontment with Dr.

All best

Ayah xxx


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Ayah

We reorganised our holiday to Miami and carribean cruise so it was hot hot hot all the way!

Fluffy baby was very happy to see us and us her!

The break did help until I had to face the thought of coming home again! It was really scary but I have stayed busy today and I am puppy sitting my parents dog today whilst they go house hunting and I think he missed me too so he is cuddling up to me right now! Oh okay I am just the closest thing he can get to my dad! The minute he comes back Oscar will be off! Ah never mind the cuddle is nice anyway!

DH and I talked a lot while we were away about getting a new puppy and decided to go ahead we are going to meet a new litter on Saturday which will be ready in feb! 

I got the "don't take on too much while you are doing IVF" speech from my dad but we have considered all of the puppy stuff and whilst I am sure I will be complaining about the new puppy peeing and pooing and crying at night and eating the walls and the ballastrade on the stairs (yep Fluffy Baby did all that) but she also laid on the sofa twitching in her sleep processing her fun filled puppy day, and barked like a nutter at the Hoover, even when it wasn't on, and her anger at the treat dispensing ball that was almost the same size as her and moved on its own was hysterical, the good stuff far outweighs the bad stuff and I can't wait!

Besides we can't live with our life on hold while we do IVF cycle after cycle I refuse to be the sort of person that only has one thing to think or talk about!

Pudding
X


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## Pudding34

Hi Ladies

So we had our immunes review today.

DH's Karotyping and my NK tests came back fine which was a huge relief.

My thyroid has come back as 3.47 so I have been prescribed thyroxine to try and get it down.

Our consultant also suggested I could be borederline PCOS so has prescribed me metformin.

He also suggested injectable progesterone in the form of gestone and gave me a prescription for when we start our next cycle in case our other clinic won't prescribe it.

Also suggested was an endometrial scratch, have any of you ladies done this?

I have to say that I was kind of hoping it was a specific thing that they could give me a miracle cure for, I know, I know there is no such thing as a miracle cure but there you have it, that was what I hoped for as opposed to this spread focus approach, which I know may give results but still feel a bit of a come down!

So anyway, how is everybody doing?

Pudding
X


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## Teeinparis

I am going out my tree waiting for my period to start next cycle and then thinking - no period would be even better  if a good surprise happened naturally.  

Are you taking baby aspirin?  A friend with multiple miscarriages and nk issues suggested it to me and I have been taking it in prep for this cycle.  

Tee


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## Pudding34

Hi Teeinparis 

I know what you mean, we hope for that natural miracle don't we, ayah has shown it is possible!

My understanding is that aspirin is used if you have clotting issues which my tests said I don't, do you think it would be worth trying anyway are there any possible side effects?

Pudding
X


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## ayah

Hi all.

Pudding glad your immunes all ok.  Hope that you get on with meds.  Metformin makes me feel sick and gives me the runns .

Are you just waiting for AF now?

Tee so so hope you get a natural bfp.  Are you late yet? This tx just feels like onelong waiting game. Hope you get an answer soon.

How is everyone else?  Sending you all hugs n comforting mugs ofhot choc.

Ayah xxx


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## Teeinparis

Hi, 

I talked about it with my accu.  She said it was a blood thinner so helps circulation and you need good blood flow to the ovaries and womb according to tcm.  If you have health problems that would counter act but for me I didn't see the harm.  I am taking a .75 one.  

Also, massage your ovaries - I swear that is what helps my periods stay regular and I possible have PCOS but a year of doing that and periods.  

Who knows?!


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## Teeinparis

Have you gone to the doc yet and got your bloods done Ayah?  Any pregnancy symptoms thus far?


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## ayah

Hi pudding,

I would ask your dr about starting it.  I dont know what the baby asprin dose is, but 75mg is used in those with elevated risks  heart attach, due high blood pressure for example. Asthis dose is less than for pain relief, if taken once a day there should be no adverse effect to your clotting, unless you have issues with blood nit clotting.  So i would ask you dr as they have your blood results..  if you have no issues clotting i would not take it myself as there no evidence it work for me and it still a  drug.

Hope that helps.  Prob said what you already know!

Ayah xxx


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## ayah

Tee still not convinced Im pregnant!  Four tests on.  Seeing gp tomorrow for depression review.  To be honest think the depression is anti natal.  I had started to pick up.  Then crashed back down about three weeks ago.  Which would be 1 week post conception.

o only symptom is tender chest, but in diff way from before and previous chemicals.  Oh and tired, crying and almost suicidel!  Yes i get a bfp and have feltthat low.  Blame the hormones and it not last long but not nice.  I just wish i could feel excited but dont.  Must sound so silly.    Hope that I'll pull out of this soon.  Sure the excitmentis there deep inside.  

Prehaps it cos i not had the ones from the chamicals and DS.  Got a lot and all the same ones.

Thanks for asking though.  Sorry not a nice answer.

Ayah xxx


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## Pudding34

Oh Ayah you words made me cry!

I hope that once your BFP has been confirmed by GP you turn the corner!

If you are still feeling suicidal, please keep talking to us all, I would hate to think of you suffering on your own!

Pudding
X


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## ayah

Thank you pudding.  Didnt mean tomake you cry, but thank you for caring so much.  Ive got like this since a teenager.  No anwers from medics as to why.  As it not related to a bad event  theyjust dont bother.  Still i may think of it but would never act on it.  I am blessed in being a wimp.  Dont do pain.  And i love life to much.  My anti depressants will be putup tomorrow, so that should help.

Thank you again
Ayah xxx


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## Pudding34

Anytime sweetie! That is why we are here for each other!

Okay, a joke to make you smile! Why do all the teletubies go to the bathroom at the same time?


They only have one tinkly winky!

Pudding
X


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## Teeinparis

Oh dear Ayah, 

Please look at diet and go get some exercise (yoga, walking, anything).  You will be better once you talk to doc and get through the first few hurdles.  Try to get in today urgently if you can. 

Tina


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## Pudding34

Morning Ladies

So I began my Thyroxine and Metformin yesterday, and felt pretty much wiped out in the evening, I have read that fatigue is a side effect of Thyroxine but could it have effected me so quickly?

Keep waiting for adverse tummy effects from metformin but touch wood I'm doing okay so far.

The pharmacist advised I start off on 1 tablet per day for a couple of days to let my body get used to it so that is what I'm doing, dreading bad side effects!

Have spoken to two of my friends who are new mums since we got back from our holiday and both were amazing, they were lost for words of course as neither can understand the pain I am experiencing but were supportive and loving which was just what I needed!

I told my friend who had a baby in September that I wanted to see her and her little one soon as I a worried I am missing out on so much in my role as honorary auntie and she said she would work around me and what I want to do. Sounds silly I know but when I get the smallest bit of support and understanding even from those I have been close with for a long time it reduces me to tears!

Started worrying yesterday about dealing with new drugs and side effects and a new puppy all at the same time but hopefully all will have settled down by the time he is ready to come home and I really need a new focus to get me through the feeling of emptiness I am feeling now.

In that same vein I reached out to some old friends in my line of business looking for some new business yesterday, pretty much cut myself off from them through all of this as I didn't have the capacity to keep the brave face up and didn't want to tell them the truth and so when meeting with one of them I got such a warm welcome from him and his employees that I knew from before that I was overwhelmed, realised I need to start compartmentalising things to an extent and getting back out into the real world!

Sorry for rambling, I do that at this time of the morning!!

Ayah how are you feeling sweetie? I hope better than earlier this week, has the GP confirmed your BFP?

Pudding
X


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## ayah

Hello all,

Oh Pudding, you really going through.  These drugs are horrid stuff even if meant to help.  I  dont know how people  manage takeing them long term.  Hope the fatigue gets easier soon.  I get neasea with in acouple hours with metformin, so hopfully  you want get too bad side effects.  Sorry that grammer it bad best i can do with my head.

So glad you getting some good support.  Makes such a difference.  It great that you feel ready to visit your friend.  And get back into bussiness.  So good that you had such a positive response to your visit. Must make you feel quite wanted?  I can relate to any act of kindness making you cry.  That is me too.  It really confuses hub, no matter how i try to explain it.

Tee thanks for advice.  It is so true.  I need to tackle this emtional eating for good.  I would ask my councellor but she is like me and a lot bigger.  So not sure she has tacled the emtional eating yet.

I been making some small changes to diet.  Stupid thing is i love healthy food.  Thinking of getting an air fryer.  Anyone used one?  At the moment i need to keep the exercise light.  I have excema which is flaring.  Sweating makes it a lot worse.  Again ilove exercise but find it so hard to fit in when im so tired.  May be some walks in the park.

Oh saw gp.  Told him i think lm 6 wks and he just said, great book into midwife, no bloods.  Did change antidepressants too.

Told my line managers who were great.  One I have known sinces starting there and she really understanding.  Her sister been through ivf too.

Thanks all.  Oh Pudding loved the joke, my level! And no appolgising.

Ayah xxx


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## Teeinparis

The NHS is great in so many ways but they are so willing for antidepressants and not really for anything else - can't believe no bloods.  Just irresponsible IMO. 

Take care.  I am just waiting for AF to start my protocol.  Frustrating as been having cramps and nasea for over a week.  Urgh!


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## Pudding34

Tee, are you late? Is it worth taking a test?


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## emz2402

Hi Ladies, sorry I haven't been on here in a while. I thought going back to work after Xmas and new year would pick me up again but it hasn't!

Congrats Ayah on your pregnancy, what a lovely shock! I hope you start feeling better. Depression is a horrible thing to go through and it's so hard to explain to someone who hasn't been through it. I have to admit I've come close to going to the doctors about how I'm feeling at the moment but I'm very reluctant to use antidepressants so I'm just trying to ride out these feelings and hope things improve.

Teeinparis - isn't it funny how normally we're all praying for no AF and then when we want it to come it doesn't want to show!

Pudding - glad you had a good holiday, hope it was the break away you needed. Hope you're feeling better off your drugs, I can't wait for the day when I no longer need to pop drugs/vitamins!

I had my scan on Friday so a week on Monday is transfer day. I feel as though I should be getting excited but don't really feel it at the moment. I don't whether it's because if this fails I have to go back to a fresh cycle and I found it so emotionally and physically draining. It doesn't help that my appetite has left me completely, and I usually love my food, I don't know whether it's the stress or the tablets but I've lost half a stone without meaning to over the past few weeks which I know isn't good for me as my BMI borders on being underweight. I've started to eat a bit more this weekend but it seems to be hurting my stomach, eating is giving me such bad indigestion, but I know over the next few weeks I really need to start eating a lot more to give this FET a chance!

Hope everyone is having a good weekend xxx


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## Teeinparis

Hi, 

Yes we are still trying naturally and did take a few pregnancy tests over the last few days but don't think so as bfn.  So thinking just late after the one after icsi failed?  Would love a natural miracle!


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## Pudding34

Hi Emz, the break was good but coming back to reality has been hard I have had to create new coping mechanisms and as you can see from the above we went to visit new puppies yesterday, we picked one he is so fluffy and gorgeous I can't wait to bring him home!

So sorry to hear you have gone off your food I always find it to be comforting, now I have been diagnosed borderline PCOS I need to be more careful, hopefully your appetite will come back after transfer you need to be well fed and strong for your little embie!

Oh Tee in now what you mean I'm late by 4 days now and I have tested, of course it was BFN but we live in hope don't we!

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

Hi guys been a long time. I'm back, pudding how are you


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## Pudding34

Tiffanymi 

It has been a loooooong time, I'm okay had a difficult time with the consultant today going over the last cycle and where we go from here!

On a lighter note we are getting a new puppy on the weekend!

How the devil are you? How was your holiday?

Pudding
X


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## Teeinparis

Hi.  Still no AF.  Hpt - bfn.  How late is normal after an unsuccessful cycle?  I have been having cramps for over a week.  Driving me crazy!


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## Pudding34

Tee I am feeling your pain!

Clinic told us we can start again after February period and I am willing Jan's to hurry up and come I've not been very regular anyway recently so it could be anytime but it's driving me crazy now!

I'll keep my fingers crossed that we both get the one thing we will to not come usually as soon as possible!

Pudding
X


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## Teeinparis

So hard....the waiting is killing me.  My husband just doest get it!


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## gemmadobson

Hi Ladies,

My period is 22 days late, the first one after EG was bang on but had to have them frozen due to OHSS.  I feel like it could start any day now but ive had the craps for weeks and no sign and deffo not pregnant.  So frustrating as I can ring up to request treatment when it starts - come on!!!

Love Gemma xx


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## gemmadobson

LOL that was supposed to be cramps!!! xx


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## Pudding34

Tee DH's don't babe, they arent on constant knicker watch all the time and don't have those pesky hormones coursing through their bodies!

You just need to stay calm, do whatever that takes, a hot bubble bath, shopping trip, massage,have you had accupuncture?

I find it really helps me, I made an appointment to see my therapist next week, feel like I really need it after the events of the last month or so!

Welcome Gemma, craps was funnier!!! Ha haha

Pudding
X


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## Teeinparis

Craps seems more like it - as in a craps shoot!  

I feel your pain Gemma.  I have visitors from tomorrow so hopefully that will help.  Just going to find out blood results then start herbs, exercises etc and get this sucker!


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## gemmadobson

Haha sorry, I was laughing to myself when I was reading it back!

Ive never wanted AF to arrive as much as I do now, I must of been to the toilet 30 times today to check, I might tempt fate tomorrow and put my best knickers on!

xx


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## Pudding34

Gemma your comment about your best knickers really made me laugh mostly because I was  thinking the same thing this morning when I got dressed but my best ones are so pretty I just couldn't run the risk!

I just did a quick calculation and I am on day 34 now, I didn't think it was quite that long for some reason! No wonder I am stroppy and crabby all the time at the moment I wish it would hurry up, perhaps my new drugs are confusing my body and causing a delay?

Girls STEP AWAY FROM THE KNICKER WATCH!  

Pudding
X


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## Pudding34

Day 34 of Knicker Watch

Well after my earlier post you will be surprised to know my knicker watch is now officially over! AF started about half a hour ago!

Feel very conflicted emotionally, as much as I wanted it to start so we can start looking at dates for the next cycle I was also harbouring that little bit of hope that it was late for the other reason!

No matter what our chances of natural conception are we still have that little part of us that holds on to that dream! And every month we get our period that dream dies a little but it is resurrected the next month and the cycle resets doesnt it!

Can't explain any of this to anybody but you ladies, DH tries to understand but as I said to Tee earlier they just don't get it as they don't enjoy the fun of knicker watch and the hormones! Other women, the ones that conceive at the drop of a hat, also can't understand!

Wow I am crying writing all of that down, when does this emotional roller coaster end? Silly question I know!

Pudding
X


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## Teeinparis

Day 35 here.  Did a hcg test at the lab.  Fantastic - 17.50 you walk in with no referral and ask for one.  Much better than hpt!


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## Teeinparis

It was negative so my gas, bloating, cramps and knicker watch continue!


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## Pudding34

Oh Tee I'm so sorry, hope you are okay, 

Day 35 of Knicker Watch! Sounds a bit like one of those wildlife shows doesn't it!!!!

Like I said earlier you need to try to relax, easier said than done I know but we have to say it don't we! Have you tried that bubble bath?

Pudding
X


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## Teeinparis

I will go for a run tomorrow now.  I have a bath each day.  Doing fertility yoga, relaxation tapes.  Sex.... And yet still uptight.  I blame never ending pms!


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## Tinckler

I wish I could start my treatment so soon..as you know I have to wait 6 months for the next one (I called up and in my area Essex/south east it's 6 months for fresh and 3 months for frozen). Typically I'm in no rush for a period like you ladies and it came bang on (never does that). I did have a glimmer of hops that maybe the IVF stimululated something and this would be the one time I fall pregnant but no such luck!

Ems x


----------



## Teeinparis

Yer, I was hoping too.  As doing ivf in France it is sort of semi-private.  They would've started me right after on the failed period but the lab was closed after Xmas.  I just thought we would be lucky first go and had a false positive !


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## gemmadobson

Morning /ladies 

Hope you are all well.

Im no longer on kicker watch, finally 24 days lite AF arrives   called St Marys this morning to request treatment and now the long 72 hour wait to see if we have been accepted this month  

xx


----------



## Teeinparis

Jealous.  I am still waiting.  Now though I have an infection and am on antibiotics.  Don't know how this would effect a cycle


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## gemmadobson

Oh no hope the infection clears up soon. 

I wouldn't even tell them about the infection and chances are it will of cleared up by the time you have treatment I know if we got accepted this month I don't start injecting again till day 21 of my cycle so it would be plenty of time. I'm sure it will be fine  

X


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## Teeinparis

Still waiting.......no AF.  Starting to lose it.


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## Pudding34

Oh Tee you must be so frustrated!

Have you considered any alternative therapies?

Stress could be contributing, maybe a massage or something?

AFM we got our new puppy on the weekend he is a fluffy little bundle and I love him (despite him being what's my sister in law calls a pissy poo pants!)

I hoped that having him would make the pain I was feeling better, or at least easier to cope, with but honestly whenever I hold him I feel that empty part in me is just highlighted! Will it ever go away?

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

Hi pudding. Sorry haven't been in touch. Been so busy after holiday and work. My holiday was exactly what the do tor ordered. It truly was amazing and I forgot about IVF and all the heartache that comes with it. 

So with my the newed positivity I went to another clinic when I got back and he wants to do immune testing on my next IVF or immune injections rather. If this doesn't work,,,,I will need to go to donor but at least I am trying something different. 

I haven't decided but may go again in fen....I know it's soon but I can't have no hope for too long. How are you, any news after your appointment.


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## ayah

Hi Ladies,

Sounds like you all been having a rough time of it with late AF.  Really hope that your waits end soon Tee.  Once went 11weeks waiting for AF.  Did Test every week with bfn.  Heart braking.  Really feel for you all.  So so wish you could all have that miricel bfp.  Wish i knew the secret I would give it to all people with IF issues in a heartbeat.

Tiffanymi glad that your holiday was so lovely.  And that the new clinic is giving you some more options.  Really hope that this works for you.  How do you feel about donor?  

Pudding hows the pills going? Has the fatigue settled or worse?  Is it effectng the emtional side of things?  Know when I feel tired my emtions are ten times worse too.  

Read one of the posts, but cant find it now about weight loss.  Funny how i find it so easy to put it on and others find it hard to keep weight on!  Anyway was gonna suggest putting build up in your food for added caleries, without needing to eat more.  Would check that it ok to have with tx and pregnacey, but might help. Especially if you find eating hard at the moment.  

My thoughts and best wishes to you all

Ayah xxx


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Tiffany

Glad your holiday was good sounds like you really relaxed, I did too whilst we were away but coming home just wiped all of that out!

Our clinic wants us to wait for a couple of clear cycles before trying again so will be looking at a cycle end of march beginning of April time I think depending on when my Feb period comes.

I know what you mean about having hope it's the waiting that drives you crazy isn't it!

I'm so glad they are looking at immunes issues I think it can give us some answers, I'm on Thyroxine, for under active thyroid,  and Metformin for PCOS now at least I feel like I am doing something.

I had my first accupuncture session since my last cycle today with Christmas and our holiday I just put it on hold, I really missed it and felt better for having the session although I am super tired now, although that could be because I have been running around after the puppy all day, he is a little scamp!

Hi Ayah, as you can see from above I am still tired and have been feeling very emotional in the last couple of days, I think having the puppy has highlighted how much I want a baby, I'm hoping it will level itself out!

Tee any news on AF?

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi guys

Ayah thanks. Hope it works xxx you always want your own child as first prize but if I can't, I will just be lucky to have a child at all even if via donor.  It will though be so e form of loss. Hopefully this one will work though. 

Pudding, glad you are going soon, it's nice to have something to look forward to....I know that sounds weird but hope either way. 

Nice to hear about acupuncture that it does so much for relaxation. I have started listening to meditation, visualization tapes for IVF cycles. Glad you have. Puppy!! They are so nice to have around and give lots of love. I know you have felt emotional, hope everything gets better and you gain a little strength. I know if this IVF is another failure, I think I will just break down. 

Has anyone been on immune injections? Not sure what to expect...


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi.  No AF yet!  About 2weeks late.  I called the FE but no call back.  I am doing accu, fertility yoga and relaxation.    Just need to try and focus more on work!  


Any tips on AF?


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi teen impairs. I have not been following this thread for a while as I was away. Is it possibly a hopeful thing that AF hasn't come are you Ina. Cycle


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi.  

Unfortunately no.  Still not here and two blood tests later!  Trying accu, mugwort etc. Need to reup my exercise.  That is the good thing about France - with or without referral it is 17.50 and you can get a blood pregnancy test at any lab.  It is great!


----------



## Pudding34

How many days is it now Tee?

Have you spoken with your Dr?

I had my flu jab on Friday as it is recommended by NHS and included if you are on funded treatment so I got it done now as it is enough time between cycles.

The nurse said I shouldn't feel any symptoms but I have a horrible scratchy throat and I feel achey all over! Felt a bit like this yesterday but it's worse today, so I feel awful  and I have two dogs, one a puppy to look after! 

Although having said that big puppy is playing tug of war with little puppy and using him to clean the floor so that's handy, maybe I will wrap a wipey around him and get it done properly!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi, 

I am 15 days late.  On 32 day cycle and I guess 19 on other.  I have a call out to the FE.  The receptionist essentially said they can give me something to take...urgh - more hormones.  Other than that I do understand from her that a failed cycle can just mess you up!  

Anyways, I had a flu shot earlier this winter as well.  Last year I did get the flu.  Essentially they don't stop you from getting it, just a really bad case and passing it on to other at risks groups. Typical thing.  Lots of fluid, rest and fruit/veggies.  Take some paracetomol as well.

Talk soon

Tee


----------



## Pudding34

Thanks Tee,

I always had a flu jab at my office and never had any problems but this time is different! Feeling rough, drinking lots and popped some paracetamol! Will rest as much as possible but little puppy probably won't let me get any extra sleep!

A failed cycle definitely does mess you up, I hope that your AF hurries up waiting is so cruel!

Pudding
X


----------



## Pudding34

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49832

Hi girls dont know if you have already seen this but it's a very interesting petition.

I'm very lucky to be in an area where we get three rounds but that should be the same for everybody!

As a community we should support these proposed changes and the first step for that is to get the petition taken notice of so please sign!

Pudding
X


----------



## Stacey84

Hi Ladies, 

Hope I can join you. Just been through my first IVF cycle - had EC on 20/01 and ET on 23/01, with OTD 07/02 but started bleeding yesterday (too much to be implantation bleeding). The nurse said it's unlikely but still a slim chance I could be pregnant so to keep going with the pessaries and test on Friday and call them with the result. I asked how long would it be before we could try again and she said after 3 periods. I'm just feeling so down and can't stop crying. I know it rarely happens first attempt but I just didn't think I would feel this upset about it. Before this, I had 2 attempts at gonadotropin therapy but that didn't work so we have been trying for over a year, which I know is a relatively short time in the grand scheme for things, but already it feels like it's been forever. 

I've had a quick read over the previous posts, congrats Ayah, and I hope AF arrives for you soon Tee. I hope you feel better soon Pudding. Anyway reading your posts has inspired me to now go and see if I can book a weekend away somewhere. Maybe nothing glamorous like a cruise but even just a UK city break to get a change of scenery for a couple of nights.

Take care everyone

xx


----------



## ayah

Hi Stacey, 

so sorry that early signs show a bfn.  No one really warns us or other halfs, how hard this all is.  I had iui, which was hard going, but ivf is on a whole other level.  Not to say a bfn on a natural cycle or, medicated, or iui are not devistating, but the extra drugs and procedures seem to  magnify it.  

Big hugs to you.  From what you say a bfp is unlikely, but will be thinking of you on Friday.  

Pudding hope that the fluy symptoms are improving.  You are probably quite run down, so that may explain why you dont usually suffer with it. But have this time.  Then each vaccine is different so you will respond differently.  Flu vaccines will protect against all strains that are in the vaccine, which is all the most common or survire, but there are strains that are not in it.  

Like the wipes on the puppy idea.  You can get slipper floor buffers. Maybe you can get dog sized.  

Tee hope your wait doesnt last  much longer.

Tiffanmi, hows the visulisation going?  

Oh And will diffinatly sign the pation.

Take care all

Ayah xxx


----------



## Teeinparis

Stacey - I agree it is so hard and wish we would've done the break we said we were going to.  Unfortunately, our Cat was unwell and we needed to stay home with her then the new year and expenses of it all - including IVF hit.  So have stayed put.  We thought we would do a bit more around Paris but just haven't.  Plus January has just been depressing.  Today is glorious.  Just got back from a jog! 

Take care y'all.  

Tee


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Stacey!

Sorry that you have been bleeding, I started bleeding early on my first cycle and I know how devastating it feels!

However as they say it ain't over till the fat lady sings, and I'm tone deaf so perhaps it will all be alright! (That was a joke to make you smile I hope it worked!)

Seriously you just don't know until you know so try to stay positive.

You said you didn't expect to be so upset but don't be too had on yourself, it is a terrible roller coaster and your hormones are all over the place at the moment so uncontrollable crying is to be expected but it will pass.

Have you considered counselling? It might help to talk to somebody neutral who understands how you feel!

What about alternative therapies? I have been having accupuncture since November and I have found that it has been really helpful, I really like my therapist and we talk about a lot of stuff both physical and emotional it's like accupuncture and counselling rolled into one!

I think the getaway is a great idea, it will give you something else to think about and a change of scenery is always helpful, any idea so on where you want to go?

The next couple of days will be hard so keep talking and don't be afraid to ask for help from family or friends or us here if you are feeling sad of just want to chat.

Ayah I hadn't thought of that, I have been pretty down in myself health wise since the last cycle plus my new drugs so it's not a surprise that I feel rubbish really! Been putting off walking the dog as it's freezing outside but need to bite the bullet and get her out!

Perhaps my puppy floor wipes is an idea waiting to be exploited I will do some more research!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi guys

Ayah. The meditation decreases in value once you have higher stress at work but still good

Teen in Paris thinking of you

Pudding, hope the little pup is doing well

I have decided to start in feb...should be getting my period this week. Nervous for a new doctor and protocol. And also immune injections. Has anyone had immune injections and far rimed for egg quality?


----------



## Stacey84

Thanks Girls, I think I just need to take the next few days a day at a time. I had booked Friday off as a holiday so even though I don't really need it off now, I think I will still take it and spend the day with my Mum.

I did think about accupuncture but felt it was a bit late through my treatment by the time I had found about it, but definitely going to consider it, and/or reflexology for our next cycle.

Going back to work today, so I'm hoping it's busy so I don't have time to think too much.

Good luck with the new doctor Tiffany

xx


----------



## marshey3

Hi Ladies,

Hope you dont mind me joining, the lovely Pudding suggested it.

I just went through a medicated FET got a BFP but at my 7 week scan last week got bad news that i had miscarried, not sure how far we got no bleeding had occured. Stopped my medication and the miscarriage happened. 

Just when i think i'm all cried out it comes from nowhere and am in floods again.   It really is a rollercoaster, We will go again as still 2 snow babies left but we've just not decided when. Far to early to think about that, think OH and Myself need us time again for a bit.

Look forward to chatting to you all

Much Love

Marshey
xxx


----------



## Pudding34

*Marshey* I am so glad you have joined us, I've found such comfort and support from all the lovely ladies on here and I know you will too! Anytime you want to talk we are here!

*Tiffany* the Puppy is settling in well and getting quite attached to our big Puppy, I've been looking after my parents dog today so it's been pretty hectic with all three of them! Feel like I am running a puppy crèche!

*Stacey* have you booked your trip away yet? I definitely think that accupuncture could help it has given me such balance in myself which is important when we are being pulled all over the place with the cycles and the drugs! I really noticed how much I missed it when I had a break over Christmas and new year! How did it go back at work?

*Tee* how are you doing sweetie?

I had an idea, how about if we arranged a night to chat in the chat room like a meet up in cyber space? Is anybody interested in that?

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks for the wishes Stacey. Appreciate it. 

Marsheyk my heart goes out yo you. I hope you find the strength to continue and to keep the hope xxx

Pudding lol that's a lot of dogs. Chat room sounds awesome as we can get to know each other. I only have access to the general one tho on iPad.


----------



## Teeinparis

Let me know about a chat.  Great news - I have my period.  Bad news - I am covered in hives!  So itchy but allowed to start protocol.


----------



## Pudding34

Tee, congrats and commiserations respectively!

Do you know what is causing the hives?

Any suggestions on a mutually convenient time to chat?

Marshey, I've been thinking of you, hope today was a better day if only slightly!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hey guys going for scan tomorrow. I know tmi but light light period just a slight bleeding this morning. Unsure if constitutes a period. Chat for me is better later at night due to work. I am overseas also s a little tricky...


----------



## marshey3

Thanks Tiffany.

Thanks Pudding been to a counselling session today which has helped.  Each day is getting better,  will be going back to work next week as I need some normality back in my life.

Hope everyone else is doing ok.

Marshey
xx


----------



## emz2402

Hi ladies, I know I haven't been on here in a while but I feel absolutely broken and no one really understands but you ladies. My FET was a bfn and at the moment I'm either crying my eyes out or getting so angry at why me!!! I feel like I can't remember the last time I was genuinely happy.

I know I have another 2 goes but I'm physically, mentally and emotionally drained. If I didn't have to get up for work money-fri I wouldn't leave my bed ever, as it is as soon as I come home it's the first thing I do!

I wanted to ask you ladies about what you think of counselling? I think maybe it would help but I'm nervous about whether I can open up to a stranger and in the end unless the councillor can perform miracles and give me a baby I'm not sure they can say anything to make me feel better.  

Hope yous are all coping better than me!!

xxx


----------



## Stacey84

Evening all, and hi Marshey. I've found work to be a great distraction this week, luckily it's been busy so I've not had time to think about things. I find the worst times are when I'm on my own, as my mind starts to wonder. I'm glad you're taking a bit of time Marshey, you'll know when you feel ready again. 

I'm the opposite, I want to try again as soon as I can, but think I have to wait 3 months. Tomorrow is my OTD so I still have to go through the POAS and phoning the hospital to say it's a BFN, and hopefully they'll get me in for my follow up appointment soon.

Teen, how are your hives? I've never had them so no idea what it's like.

How did your scan go Tiffany?

I know it's hard going Emz, I sometimes want to just randomly start crying, sometimes because of obvious things (this week have included pics of friend's kids on ******** and TV adverts for clearblue and SMA milk) to just nothing at all. I've not had counselling but I think it would definitely be worth a try, if you don't like it, you don't have to go back. I sometimes think that even though the person you talk to can't offer any comforting words, it can help just to say things out loud and get it out. I think I would try counselling if my next shot isn't successful.

Spending tomorrow with my Mum, and seeing friends this weekend. I kinda feel that once I get tomorrow over with, I'm going to feel better but I don't think it's going to be that simple. I'm hoping to feel some sort of closure at least and hopefully start feeling positive about the next steps. We have one frostie so think my hospital makes you use that first before doing another fresh cycle. 

I hope you are all doing ok, and it's good to know have each other for support

xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Em, I'm so sorry to hear that. I have felt like that for so long. After my last failed cycle, I was totally broken. I felt and still feel that my life has paused and something so big was missing. I went on a long trip to clear my mind and felt better when back. Now that I'm doing IVF again, I am scared that again I may be dissapointedd  and perhaps may be the end of my road. Sorry you are feeling so down, though after my break, I had a renewed energy and drive to make this happen so I jumped on the bandwagon....very soon after. Stacey, I am like you, just want to jump back on and I am back again after doing this in Nov /Dec. 

Em, we are here for you. I haven't don't counselling but I believe someone who specialises in IVF and knows the ins and outs can help with coping mechanisms. I also tried meditation through audio specific to IVF. 

Stacey, scan went ok. I don't have a strong enough period even though it's started....so day 3 when it gets more I need to start. The new clinic was amazing. This doctor takes a lot of care and the nurses so warm. They even give you a flat cooler like bag that all your meds fit exactly into. Just different to my last one. But lots more medication so I'm also very nervous. 

Hope this weekend brings better emotions for everyone and a little hope xxx


----------



## Lou_1986

Hi!

I've just gone through my 1st cycle of IVF was supposed to be with ICSI
Had egg collection today but unfortunately they only managed to get 3 Eggs
And they weren't mature enough to progress with ICSI or anything else! 
Was absolutely heartbroken, just wondered had this happened to anybody else
And would you have any advice to give?! 

Not even getting to fertilisation stage has gutted me x

Lou  💔


----------



## emz2402

Thanks Stacey and Tiffany for your support it really does help. I spent all last night crying my eyes out but I'm someone who needs a plan. I'm going to get my follow up appointment booked in as I want to talk to them about immune testing but also about trying a 5 day transfer although I know my clinic don't do this so I'll have to think about moving to the James Cook clinic in Middlesbrough, it's a bit of a trek but they have the best results in the north east!!

Stacey - keeping busy is the key, I'm going to see a friend tonight (and her 5 month baby eeek!!) and then spending tomorrow with my mam. I wish I found work a bit more distracting but I have two pregnant women, one opening trying to conceive and one woman just back from maternity!! So you can imagine the talk.

Tiffany - glad you're getting there with your period, I remember before Xmas when mine was 3 weeks late and it meant I had to wait till after Xmas to start my FET but got there in the end even if it wasn't the result I was after. Fingers crossed for you.


I'm so sorry Lou, unfortunately I can't help much as that wasn't the case for me but I can imagine it must have been devastating!! Sending a huge   Your way, this can be a very cruel process

xxx


----------



## Lou_1986

Thank you Em,

Your totally right it can be cruel process and it's so hard when people tell you
To remain positive when they have not gone through what we have?! I didn't
Try the counselling this 1st cycle but I think when I come to start my 2nd cycle
I may just sign up for it, don't think I prepared myself enough to be this devastated by the news of it not working. I was on merional for a total of 19 days and getting scanned every 2 days but when came to egg collection they just weren't mature enough 😢

This page does help tho n makes you think your not alone xx


----------



## Pudding34

*Emz* I'm so sorry about your BFN, treatment is so hard and life is so cruel when we go through all the hard work and anticipation and get a BFN at the end of it.

Counselling has definitely helped me as has accupuncture and meditation there is a great download on iTunes by a woman called Bree Taylor Molyneaux some of it is directed at treatment like collection and transfer but there is also general relaxation that may help you once the pain is not so raw.

*Stacey* how did it go this morning honey?

*Marshey* how are you doing today? A little bit better I hope!

*Tiffany* so glad you like your new doctors it makes a huge difference when we feel confident in the clinic doesn't it?!

*Lou * welcome to our little group, I'm so sorry you didn't respond as well as hoped but you know a lot of people call the first cycle the "test cycle" I was on a low dose of Gonal F on my first cycle and ended up upping the dosage continually for three weeks as my follies didn't respond as they had expected, I did get there in the end but will always wonder if the slow start was the reason why we had two chemical pregnancies. They will be putting me on a higher dose to start next time so fingers crossed!

*Tee* how are you doing babes did you get rid of the hives ?

*AFM* I am ricocheting between confidence and positivity and despair it's getting to be more positive than negative but those moments are still there so I am going out now to walk big puppy whilst little puppy sleeps as that always helps me clear my head!

Love and hugs to you all.

Pudding
X


----------



## Lou_1986

Thank you Pudding!

Yea today I'm just trying to get my head around it all, suppose it will take time. It's so nice to come on here tho and speak and read about women going through the same thing.

Lou x


----------



## Pudding34

Lou

Have you had a follow up with your clinic yet to discuss your cycle and where you go next?

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi.


Trying to get my head around the short protocol.  I need to figure out how to give my sel the injections and mix the vials for the weekend.  Urgh!  

Rash/hives.  Look bad still.  Not sure wtf is going on.  I feel constpated so wondering if that is part of it.    Allergy and body can't get it out!


----------



## Lou_1986

Pudding,

Not yet as had egg collection yesterday and was telephoned about 3 hours later to say that the eggs were not useable, so will probably be in a few weeks I would imagine.

Lou x


----------



## Pudding34

Oh darling I didn't realise it was so recent, sorry I meant had they given you an appointment yet.

I know they tell you that you have to wait to be contacted but I set aside my pride and begged for an appointment as soon as possible  and was lucky to get cancellation appointment both times, so don't be afraid to ask, if you don't ask you don't get!

Pudding
X


----------



## Lou_1986

Ah thank you pudding!

So sweet of you! Yea they just said they would send an app out in the post for follow up, the clinic who done my treatment say they like to wait at least 3 months before starting a fresh cycle. Was thinking of begginning acupuncture maybe for next cycle have you or anybody else used this?! 

Lou x 😘


----------



## Pudding34

I've been doing Accupuncture for about three months now, it has physical and emotional benefits for me! 

My advice is find a therapist that specialises in fertility and that you get along with really well. 

I love my acupuncturist and our relationship really helps me. She even made a home visit on the day if my last transfer and I felt awesome after it!

3 cycles is about usual for a new fresh cycle but I preferred to get the ball rolling as soon as possible it gives me the focus to get through the awful feelings after a failed cycle.

Pudding
X


----------



## Lou_1986

That's made me more determined to look into that then thank you 💓 anything that helps me relax and calm is a bonus  just booked in for a spa day too which will help! I only have 2 goes on NHS and wouldn't be able to afford a cycle privately so all my hopes will be pinned on 2nd cycle when I do start it xxxx


----------



## Stacey84

Evening Ladies, 

Tiffany, I'm glad you are happy with your new clinic, I hope it will be lucky for you.

Lou, I'm so sorry things didn't work for you this time. Fingers crossed it will be 2nd time lucky for both of us. I have just been through my first cycle, which failed so I share your devastation, and it is hard, and nothing can prepare you for how it feels. I am definitely going to try acupuncture next time. I know some people don't like it but I think it's worth a try, and it certainly won't do any harm. I've also read that reflexology is worth a try too. A spa day sounds great, I think we all deserve to treat ourselves at the moment.

Emz I'm sorry your workplace isn't a form of escape. I presume your workmates don't know about your situation? It's so difficult as you don't want everyone knowing your personal business but sometimes you just want to scream. I actually de-friended someone on ******** (a girl I went to school with) because she has 4 kids, and all she ever posted about was her kids being ill, or how she was stuck at home with them while her DH was at work/out with friends and I was so tempted to comment and say 'not everyone can have children and you've been blessed to have 4 of them so don't moan about it!' I didn't really think that was the sensible thing to do however so I just deleted her.

Tee, you'll be fine with the injections and mixing, once you get the hang of it. I've read of people who treat themselves to some chocolate after each injection so that's something to try! I also read some people numbed the area with an ice cube first if you're afraid of it being painful, and apparently wiggling your toes can help. I read that after I was past the injection stage so no idea if it works!

Hi to anyone else I've missed.

AFM, I woke up early this morning (around 5.30) so I did the POAS and even though I knew what was going to happen I still stared at it and willed it to prove me wrong. But of course it didn't, no line appeared. I called the hospital so I should get a follow up in around 4-6 weeks and hopefully be able to try again after I've had 2 bleeds (although I don't have bleeds so I guess I'll need to take HRT for a month or so first). Despite what I read about them using my frostie first the nurse said because we only have one, they will likely do another fresh cycle first and hopefully get some more frosties so if this fresh one doesn't work, there will be more frosties to rely on. She said with only one, if it didn't survive defrosting, it would be a waste so best to try and get some more to increase our chances, which makes sense to me. So fingers crossed I can start again soon.
I had a nice day with my Mum, and helping a friend tomorrow with her wedding plans so hopefully that will keep my mind occupied.

I hope everyone has a nice weekend

xx


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi All. 

It is devastating when a cycle doesn't work.  Also, there are so many places where this can all go wrong.  Here is hoping for my current cycle.  I guess I need to move on from this board, but have enjoyed talking to you all and getting to know you.  

I got the nurse today to show me how to do the mixing for the short protocol.  The pen is now fine.  I don't find it hurts at all.  Just sometimes get a bit weird after.  It is just this protocol is so different.  I have to take the decapeptyl with the puregon until the word to induce ovulation.  

Anyways, I can't complain over all, I would go to the nurse to get all shots but their hours aren't the same on the weekend.  They only charge 5 euros and it is a five mins walk.  So good.  Although we do have to pay some of the gygy fees, the system is good.  

Later sk8rs.  I do think Accu and Relaxation is doing me a lot of good.  Plus I want to look more in to Myan Massage.  There are some good people in the UK for it.  The person who does it in Paris I unfortunately missed and she is doing some work with it in Belize right now.  

Talk soon

Tina


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi everyone, tired tonight so just checked in to say hi and night night!!


----------



## Lou_1986

Stacey thank you Hun it's so hard isn't it, such a long delicate process but I'm sure we'll get there! Do u have a date for your second cycle? I've been told will have to wait for 3 months.   

Keep me posted on how you get on with the acupuncture it's something I'm going to look into.

Lou xx


----------



## Lou_1986

Night Tiff xx 😴😴


----------



## emz2402

Morning Ladies,

Hope everyone is okay.

I have my fingers crossed for you Teeinparis, let us know how you get on.

Stacey - two of my managers at work know what I'm going through I had to tell them to explain my terrible mood swings! And two close friends at work know as well so I do have some support at work. Everyone else must just thing I'm a hormonal  grumpy cow haha! I'm sorry about your negative test, I know how you feel when you're willing that second line to appear and it just doesn't show, it's heart breaking.

Hope you're feeling a bit better Lou, I think it always helps to focus the mind on the next cycle, what you'll different etc.

Pudding, I keep reading about your puppy and how busy it seems to keep you and I keep getting very tempted, I think it might help me to focus on something other than IVF. Not sure the DH agrees though, might have to work on him.

I did try Accupuncture on my first ICSI and it didn't do anything for me although I do feel I never really connected with the acupuncturist so I may give it another go but with someone else.  

Had a night at my best friends last night which was almost like counselling she just let me rant for 4 hrs solid!! It was nice to let it all out. I'm still feeling crushed but starting to make plans in my head for the next step, i really want to push my clinic to do some immune testing even if I have to pay for it myself. Also can anyone tell me whether it's better to have a 3 or 5 day transfer, is one more successful than the other. I think a 5 day transfer might be better but unfortunately my clinic only do 5 day transfers so I'd have to move hospitals.

I hope everyone has a good weekend. xxx


----------



## Cloudbaby

Hello Ladies,

This is my first post and really hoping for some advice. 

I woke up this morning to yet another BFN (my sixth cycle).

First fresh cycle, stopped after serve OHSS after EC.
Four subsequent FET's - all BFN
2nd Fresh Cycle - bled early before OTD and couldn't be stopped
Two subsequent FET's all BFN

thyroid was high and my FSH is now down to 1.6
Slightly raised antibodies,  have been taking prednisolone 10mg on this last cycle
Had endometrial scratch done for the last two cycles. 
We seem to have had all the other blood tests under the sun done.

I have always stayed with the same clinic. Do I change? I don't believe the grass will be any greener though? 
I feel empty and sick with despair and don't now what to do next? 

We have three frosties left. Use them or go for fresh cycle as I feel time is against me (I'm 37) It has been suggested that we try PGS testing, but it cost so much 

Not sure I can mentally take much more........... this game of Russian roulette is taking it's toll and I feel so helpless


----------



## Louisej29

Hi cloud baby

So sorry to see your news.  I know how you are feeling. We awoke to a very clear bfn yesterday.  Fresh cycle number five. Heartbroken and can't stop crying. Have you had all the immune testing done? Have you been on intralipids? 

I've always been v v happy with the lister but now know a change is needed and I'm going to now try a whole new approach abroad. Who knows- the grass may be greener. I don't think staying with the same clinic will be the best move unless they can do something drastically different! 

I'd go for a fesh cycle now and keep your frosties. 

Know how mentally physically and financially exhausting this is fifth/sixth time round and sending hugs xxxx


----------



## Cloudbaby

Hi Louise

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. 

It's just crushing isn't it. Yes had all immune testing done, but don't think I'm on intralipids? what are they??  I'm only on prednisolone.

My clinic is in London, but I live 90 mins away and work is 120 mins away on the south coast, so getting into London takes it's toll with trying to manage work etc. My local clinic isn't so specialise but thought I might give them a go?? 

Your right though a fresh clinic, fresh approach might help. 

Wishing you all the luck aboard and the strength to keep you going  xxx


----------



## karine

Hi everyone, I'm new in FF, this week i had my period after the 3rd and last IUI,  I was very bad last Monday, now I in a kind of limbo cause I don't really know that much about the next step, the doctors was very optimistic with us, and he never told us about IVF, but I guess is the next step... Is scary in some way, I feel better now, but is hard as you all know, we been in this fertility and trying thing for 2.5 years,  in Mexico, were I live most of the women my age are moms alredy including my friends, so this make things harder... We'll I'm think I'm not ready to give up, but i don't know where I'm at this moment.... 

I hope I can find support here..


----------



## bailey434

Hi ladies, please can I join this board. I had my first BFN this Thursday so currently trying to come to terms with it all  

I need a bit of advice if anyone can help. I was told to expect a 'bleed' and then to wait for my natural period before I can start another cycle. The thing is, and sorry if this is tmi, the 'bleed' that I'm experiencing is horrific, both in cramps terms and volume of both blood and clots   Is this normal? They didn't tell me anything about what to expect and I don't know if I'm overreacting but I normally have reasonably heavy periods (no issues though) but this much more??

Sorry to barge in and start asking questions straight away but wondered if anyone else had had a similar experience? I don't have my follow up meeting with my consultant for another 10 days and the clinic doesn't have a phone line over the weekend.


----------



## Lou_1986

Ah Emz thanks so much for your thoughts!

Today has been a good day and no tears👍 think I'm beginning to come to terms with it all now and just looking forward to starting a fresh cycle in 3 months time. As I say I've never tried acupuncture so can only but try and see if it helps!

Hope all you ladies have a good weekend and stray positive xxx


----------



## Pudding34

Evening lovely ladies!

Welcome to our little group Cloudbaby, Louisej29, Karine and Bailey, I'm so sorry that you find yourselves here with us but we know how you feel and this group has been an invaluable source of comfort to me i trust it will also be to you!

*Emz* if you are ready for a puppy in all other ways it is a great idea, they offer such comfort, our two year old border collie knows when i am sad and her little head just appears on my lap, the day i started bleeding on my first cycle, only one week into the 2ww, she sat next to me all day and followed me wherever i went, no demands no pressure just unspoken support! our new puppy is a little terror but it takes my mind off being sad and i can't wait for him to be able to walk, will be another three weeks or so, also the weather needs to cheer up as big puppy is getting frustrated not getting out into the fields to chase her ball!

Talking to supportive friends really helps doesn't it, a friend of mine called last night, to see if was going to go to our mutual friends babies dedication in March, i have been back and forth on this for a while, only some of my friends know what we are going through and i am worried that i will lose it and they will all either work it out or think i am a complete nutter! anyway my friend, who doesn't have kids, told me that she will spend the day looking after me so to speak and shadow me, she even suggested a "safe word" so that if i feel I'm losing it she will whisk me away or distract people so i can slip away! its made me feel much better about going as i really want to!

*Cloudbaby* im so sorry to hear of your awful experiences, you must be a very brave and strong woman to have gone through what you have, i have nothing but the utmost respect for you.

i don't know what clinic you are with or where you are but we had a great experience doing our immunes testing at the lister and if we weren't nhs funded somewhere else we would consider going there.

*Karine* I dont have any experience of IUI and I'm so sorry that they didn't work out for you. i have done two ICSI cycles now one fresh one frozen and its not as bad as it seems, you should def try to see your doc as soon as possible to find out where to go from here as i have always found having a plan is the best way to focus your mind on the next steps instead of what has gone before!

*Bailey* You are certainly not barging in and i think i speak for all my fellow buddies on here in welcoming you and saying that we will answer any questions we can! as far as your bleed is concerned i think that it varies form woman to woman and on the drug regime you were on.

On my first fresh cycle i had a mild bleed during the 2ww and my clinic counted this as the first of two periods before starting my drug protocol for my FET. Following my FET they want me to have three bleeds before commencing drugs for 2nd fresh cycle. sorry i can't be of more help!

*Lou* so glad to hear you had a tear free day! i definitely recommend acupuncture, if you can find a therapist that you get along with well that specialises in fertility that will help even more!

i mentioned the possibility of a live chat in the chat room at some point the other day and to which end i have set up a Negative Cycle Chat room in the chat room which i have password protected for us.

If anybody wants to talk let me know and will PM you the password.

Perhaps we could agree an evening this week to chat as a group, my understanding is that you can't access the rooms other then the welcome room on an iPad or iphone so you will need a laptop, but is anybody free on Monday evening at 8pm? if thats not good we can pick another night, just let me know!

*AFM* Im hosting my mums birthday lunch tomorrow there will be six of us and my brother and sister in law will be meeting little puppy for the first time! very excited!

Wishing you all a lovely weekend.

Pudding
x


----------



## bailey434

Thanks for the welcome Pudding and for your advice. I was on a fresh cycle on a long protocol of Buserelin and then 225 of Menopur. I had to stay on the Menopur for a couple of extra days before EC so not sure if that would have had any effect.

Emz I would echo what Pudding said about dogs. My 3 yr old puppy (as I still call her) has been a great comfort to me. She normally charges around at about 40mph but over the last few days she has been calm but not wanting to leave my side. Last night when I was a bit teary she came and sat by me and wedged her head in my lap (which made me cry a bit more as it was so sweet) so then she decided that I needed a full on cuddle, bless her. They also make me go out each day and get air etc and start to deal with it all (gradually) in a way that sometimes people can't help (even if they are trying to) 

I have my beautiful goddaughter staying with me today (4 yrs old) and although some people thought I was mad to have her stay the weekend after my BFN, she has made me smile and laugh so much today that it feels like a nice distraction from it all and a little tonic


----------



## Tiffanymi

Cloud baby I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. I have had 5 failed IVFs. It gets hater each time. I changed clinics and am very happy that they have a fresh approach and changed so much which the other clinic overlooked. It may land up at the end that the grass isn't greener but I need to try....maybe will work for you at another clinic. Sometimes just the different protocol works for some. Sorry to hear you are feeling like this. 

Bailey, welcome. The blood happened to me as we'll. I was so sore and it was horrendous. Mine was like that but only for a few days...if it is continuous maybe ask the doc but it is usually more painful than the IVF itself. 

Everyone else....have a good Sunday. I too am petrified starting this cycle as a lot is riding on it, and the reality of getting a BFN again is setting in. I was surrounded by families today and it was hard but trying to keep the faith xxx


----------



## Louisej29

Hi Tiffany. I see you are on cycle 6- same as me.  It's tough isn't it.  Where abouts did you change clinics too.  X


----------



## Tiffanymi

^hi Louise, yes on sycle six. I never thought I would be one of thoese people with these high try rates, but here I am on number six. It really is tough. I am in South Africa, my clinics probably far far from yours....hope you are doing ok?


----------



## Stacey84

Morning Ladies, 

Lou, my hospital said I have to wait around 3 months too so hopefully by May we can be trying again.

Emz I think 5 day transfers have a slightly higher success rate but lots of people get BFP with 3 day transfers.

Cloudbaby and Louise,  I’m so sorry you’ve had to go through this so many times already, I admire your strength, it really is amazing what we put ourselves through. 

Hi Karine, it doesn't help when friends and family are getting pregnant. Although you feel happy for them, there is always that niggling feeling of jealously, which normally comes paired with guilt for feeling jealous! I just told one of my friends that we have had our first failed attempt, and I know she was just trying to make me feel better by trying to say that she understands how it feels coz she has been TTC (naturally) for a few months with her new husband but she already has 2 kids from a previous relationship, so I got a bit upset. If/when she announces she is pregnant I will of course be happy for her but I know hidden deep inside I’m going to be thinking why does she get three when I have none. And I’ll feel guilty for thinking that but I can’t help it. This whole process can mess with your rational thought.

Hi Bailey, I recognise you from the 2ww thread, I’m sorry you got a BFN. My OTD was Friday but I started bleeding this time last week and it was definitely the heaviest bleed I have ever had. I would say it was pretty heavy on the Sunday and Monday, and started to ease off on the Tuesday. I had cramps and felt sick, and more blood than usual.  As I don’t have periods unless I’m on meds which make me have them, I put this heavier one down to actually having something in there this time that needs to come out, if that makes sense. 

Pudding, it sounds like you have a good friend there, and the safe word idea seems like a good one.
I will try and join the chat on Monday night if I can.

I spent yesterday with a couple of friends, one who is planning a wedding so that has helped me to keep my mind off things and have something to look forward to. 

I hope everyone has a nice chilled Sunday and maybe I'll get the chance to chat to some of you tomorrow

xx


----------



## Alotbsl

Hi ladies, can I join your thread please.
Just been through my first de cycle had top grade blast but still had bfn this morning, feeling very numb.
I have 4 frosties waiting so will be trying again ASAP. Look forward to chatting to you all.


----------



## Lou_1986

Oh Stacey we will be hopefully going through our cycle around the same time! May just seems so far off at the moment!

So sorry to hear your news alotbsl I'm sure you'll take some comfort from the ladies in this thread I know I did! I found out on Thursday that three eggs that they took at EC were not mature enough to use unfortunately so didn't even get to fertilisation stage. That was my first cycle so hoping for a better result next time around, just beginning to come to terms with it all.

Hope you all have a nice Sunday xxx


----------



## Louisej29

Hi everyone. Hope you are all having a good Sunday

I just can't stop crying today and can't quite believe I have become one of those people with multiple failed cycles.  Feeling so worn down by it all and scared of the future now.  

Pudding thanks for the email- good idea and will try and get on Monday night x


----------



## Pudding34

*Louisej29* Darling I'm so sorry to hear you are having a bad day!

Multiple BFNs are hard to deal with for more than one reason the first is just having a BFN but then after the first one is the fear of the unknown that that we may go through all of that hard work and heartache over and over again.

Whilst I can't offer you a success story, yet, but I can tell you that I have heard of many women on here who have had success after a few BFNs and it does happen.

I hope that you are looking after yourself and that you have a partner to take good care of you.

I can't express what I want to say to help you so will send you a hug and offer you these words, it will be alright in the end and if it isn't alright it isn't the end.

Pudding
X


----------



## Pudding34

*Alotbsl* so sorry that you had a BFN. My heart goes out to you.

I wanted to welcome you to our little group, we are having a chat in the chat room tomorrow night at 8pm I have sent you an email with the details and password to log on.

I hope you can make it, if not don't worry I'm sure we will have others!

Pudding
X


----------



## Alotbsl

Hi pudding34

Thanks for the invite. If I can managed to fire up my old PC I would love to join you all for a chat tomorrow.


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Today has been a bad day...I must admit I'm feeling so so terrified. I started my period today and starting injections Tuesday. Just so scared. This is my 6th IVF and I am so scared it will be BFN again. I don't know if my heart can take it. Just all of a sudden feel petrified.


----------



## Cloudbaby

Hi everyone

Pudding - Thank you for the lovely comments and the invite to chat tomorrow. I am working late, but will try and finish as early as I can to log on. Certainly does sound like you have a star of a friend there 

Think DH and I have decided to leave our snow babies on ice (2) and look forward to a fresh ICSI round with PGS testing. This will be our last fresh cycle due to money as the additional PGS cost is so much. Can't believe we have done through 8 embies none of which have stayed. I try to stay positive looking forward but I am starting to wonder if they will ever get to the bottom of it.....

We decided to change clinics a while ago, but before we did, we went to another clinic and had a very thorough consultation and they said exactly the same regime moving forward as our current clinic. ......oh what to do

I found the 2WW group really supportive my OTD was today. Hi to anyone from there who has unfortunately found themselves here, big  

Hi to everyone else too of course


----------



## Louisej29

Oh Tiffany. Really feel for you. Cycle after cycle after cycle with no success really starts to make you poorly and how  we keep going I do not know. But you will find the strength from somewhere.  Already I know, 2 days after my fifth failed cycle , that I will do it again!  I can't give up on this.  

Cloudbaby.  I think that's a good idea.  We've never had any frosties! Which clinic are you at x


----------



## Cloudbaby

Tiffanymi - I really feel for you. It takes so much strength to keep going. You are very strong to have got where you are now. Pat yourself on the back.  Try not to look back at the previous negative cycles, don't allow your mind to wonder. Keep focused and look forward. Maybe just focus on one day at a time, as sometimes it's just to daunting to think so far ahead. Sending you a massive


----------



## Cloudbaby

Hi Louisej29 - we are at the Bridge. Had our consultation with a highly rec. consultant from the Hammersmith and Fulham now working at the Boston Clinic


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks Louise & cloud baby - i needed thoese words today xxx its just so hard to be that person that gets their IVF BFN count higher and higher....i will keep positive - tuesday start meds!!!! Hopefully this one has my number on it. Hope today  and this week is a better day for you guys xxx


----------



## smudger1

Hi All,

I am really sorry, I haven't been able to read all of the posts on here as there are so many  

I was on the 2ww for Feb following our first ICSI cycle. unfortunately last Thursday AF reared her ugly head 1 day before OTD. I tested knowing it was going to be a bfn, which it was. We were devastated and now have a follow up at the clinic to discuss our next move. 

It is such a lonely place to be and I am really struggling to do anything. Me and the hubbie decided to spend the weekend trying to take our mind of it, we went out, to the cinema, shopping etc etc but it is still there constantly. We were pinning our hopes on this and it literally has knocked us for 6.

We fell pg naturally in 2012 but sadly had an mmc at 10 weeks. Since then we have been on treatment after treatment but nothing worked - hence the ICSI.

I am sending lots of   amd   for everyone on this thread as I understand totally how you are feeling.

Sx


----------



## Hbkmorris

Oh ladies this is such a gripping rollercoaster in our lives I feel the same as all of you. 

I've had 5 BFN's and the last one being Jan 2013 it's took me till now to decide which way I go. I too moved clinics and the only different thing they suggested was full immune medication which I took with my 5th and yet again the same outcome. 

I've made a big decision and decided DE is my only option as I'm fast approaching 40.. If that doesn't work then I've no hope at all. 

Tiffanymi.. just wanted to wish you all the luck in the world flower.. surely it has to be our time being 6th try.. I've my everything crossed for you xx

Cloudybaby.. You poor thing, today must feel like groundhog day.. I have two frosties from last year and have decided to leave them in the freezer whilst I try another avenue. My thoughts are with you xx

Louise29.. Nice to see you on here, I know we've met on another thread.. Hope you are doing ok xx

AFM, hoping I raise the ££ sooner rather than later and Dogus full fill my dreams xx


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## Pudding34

Hbkmorris welcome to our group. 

We are hoping to have a I've chat tonight and I have sent you a PM with the details, hope you can join us!

Pudding
X


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## Hbkmorris

Hello Pudding, I've just received your email and replied to you. 

Thank you for the invite and hopefully I'll chat with you all later xx


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## Teeinparis

Hi, 

Won't be able to chat this evening.  I am having my first monitoring to see how eggs are coming tomorrow - with my AF two weeks late, hives etc this is all a bit crazy.  

We were thinking about a holiday during 2ww.  What do you think about flying?  I know last time I was so sore but could really use a distraction! 

Tee


----------



## Hbkmorris

Tee I think holidays are fine as long as you don't get to hot! Saying that lots of ladies get pregnant living in warm climates so I guess that theory is squashed!! 

When I go abroad for tx we could fly home the same day or next so there clearly isn't any impact with flying as so many ladies do it whilst having tx abroad. 

Best of luck for tonight xx


----------



## emz2402

Got my official results from the clinic today and even though I knew it was a bfn it was heart breaking to be told officially. I've certainly learnt my lesson about testing early, I feel like I've gone through two bfn's in the space of a 5 days.

I feel like I'm really going to struggle to pick myself up after this one, me and the DH had always said that we'd book a holiday if it didn't work but the past few days I've barely been able to get out of bed never mind book and go on a holiday.

Got our follow up appointment beginning of March but next available treatment date is 26th May which feels like a lifetime away!!

Life really can suck sometimes! xxx


----------



## Pudding34

Emz

My heart breaks just reading your post I know how hard it is to get motivated after a BFN.

My clinic made me retest three days after my OTD and it was like experiencing it all over again, it was just torture!

All I can say is that our holiday in January after our BFN helped me so much! Coming home was hard afterwards but I don't know how I would have been if we had stayed here!

Perhaps you should leave the plans and arrangements to your DH then all you have to do is pack your stuff!

Waiting for a new cycle does seem to take forever, have you asked to be put on a cancellation list? I got our follow up pretty quickly as I put my pride aside and they begged for a sooner appointment which I got on a cancellation basis.

Sending you hugs and strength!

Pudding
X


----------



## emz2402

Thanks Pudding your support really means a lot.

Leave it up to my hubby to book a holiday?!! I'd end up on a golfing holiday haha! I might suggest it to him tonight and see what he says.

Well I've just been on holland and Barrett's website and spent £100 - to try and get DH sperm count up and in better shape and to try and make sure I have the best eggs possible.

I could have got my follow up appointment the week before the date we have but that is when we'll probably be on holiday. I've got a lot of questions to ask on my follow up appointment and then I'll have to make the decision on whether I move clinics.

I don't know what I'd do without this forum topic xxx


----------



## bailey434

Sorry to hear your news Emz, it's so tough isn't it? 

I waited and didn't test and then the lady at the clinic seemed surprised that I hadn't, eventhough they had told me not to! I am of the mind that next time I will text the day before (but not before) as the lady that I had was not sympathetic and didn't show me any empathy and my mind was whizzing around (after an hour's wait in the waiting room) and I thought that if I had tested the day before then I would have been a little more prepared for the negative result. Who knows? Either way it's not the news you want to hear unfortunately  

I've got my follow up appointment next week and have lots of questions for my consultant but don't really know if they are relevant. Are there any specific things that I should be asking after my first round?

I'm going to see the counsellor tonight....really not sure about it all but have been encouraged to use the facility by my friend and also my consultant so maybe it will help in some small way?  

I'm going to try and join in the chat later ladies, but haven't been in one before so I'm all new to it!


----------



## Pudding34

*Emz* Our consultant recommended Proxeed as a good supplement for sperm count, it's a powder that you have to dissolve and It looks kinda foul but to his credit my DH holds his nose and downs it!

*Bailey* this is our first negative cycle chat so we are all new to it together!

Pudding
X


----------



## emz2402

Its so tough Bailey, you'll definitely have to let me know how the counselling was for you as I'm a bit scared by the idea but I think it might really help me.

Thanks Pudding, I'll add that to the list, DH will get a shock when all these tablets get delivered!!

Hopefully chat to yous tonight as long as I can get my laptop working, I live on on my iPad now so the laptop is a bit old but I'll get it working.

xxx


----------



## Ransome

Sorry ladies, I have been trying to join the chat for 20 minutes but nothing is happening. I will have to have a read through the tip sheet of what needs to be changed on my pc for next time.

I was really looking forward to this evenings chatter!


----------



## Cloudbaby

Pudding et al..................

Tried logging on to the chat room and get booted out, by the internet, tried several times now. 

I will try again..................


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## Cloudbaby

Baily434 -I have experienced very similar bleeds after a BFN. The lining has built up so much, there's a lot more to come away. If the clots get big, give the clinic a call to be on the safe side. Thinking of you


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi everyone

Sorry I couldn't join chat, only have a ipad and can't get in from that. 

Hbkmorris thanks for the warm words. I think we are in the same boat. My 6th one I am changing clinic. Difference is mainly immune injections. The next will def need to be donor eggs. So this is my last shot at my own eggs. I know how difficult everything can be after failed and failed. Hope you also have luck with your next. 

Emz sorry to hear you hada. Tough day, never easy to go through. 

Bailey hope the counselling goes well. Sometimes nice to speak to a stranger and just let it all out. 

Starting injections tomorrow as day 3.....


----------



## bailey434

Sorry to hear some ladies couldn't get in the chat-room but I definitely think we are going to chat again soon, so hopefully you can join us then x


----------



## emz2402

Just wanted to quickly say that chat room last night was good and looking forward to the next one.

Hope everyone has a good day xxx


----------



## bailey434

Thanks Cloudbaby, it's nearly finished now thankfully, but was just a bit shocked as the clinic hasn't warned me what to expect! Hope you are ok x


----------



## Hbkmorris

Sorry I missed the chatroom chat last night. I ended up going to see my friend who gave birth to a little girl who was born sleeping on Saturday, so very sad and upsetting. 

Anyhow, lots of love to you all xx


----------



## Pudding34

Really enjoyed the chat last night ladies hope we can do it again soon!

*hbkmorris* I'm so desperately sorry for your friend, a friend if mine had a similar experience a few years ago and it is the most unimaginable horror. So glad she has a friend like you to take care of her!

Pudding
X


----------



## Hbkmorris

Thank you Pudding, It's so sad isn't it.. Just when you think you get to a certain stage in pregnancy (she was 37 weeks) do you think it's all ok then bang.. something terrible like this happens. She was such a perfect little girl, I saw photo's last night and we sobbed together. Worse thing is the Pushchair and cot arrived yesterday.. I've said I'll have it at home but she's having non of it.. she wants it all close to her.. God bless her. 

Sorry to hear your friend has been through the same.. I feel for everyone so much.
xx


----------



## marshey3

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to say I really enjoyed the chat room last night, we should do it again soon. Thanks Pudding for sorting it.

Hope everyone had a good day.

Xxx


----------



## Pudding34

*Marshey* you are most welcome!

*hbkmorris* it is the most terrible thing, I can't even imagine what it must feel like ad how awful to have all the baby stuff arrive as well.

She's lucky to have a good friend like you after all you have been through as well!

Pudding
X


----------



## Stacey84

Hi All, just popped on quickly to say it was good to chat last night, hopefully get the chance to do it again soon.

Hbkmorris, I'm so sorry for your friend, I can't even begin to imagine how she must be feeling. You just need to be there for her. 

Speak soon

xx


----------



## ayah

Hello ladies,

Just wanted to pop on and see how you are all doing.  See that their are lots of new people here.  My thoughts are with you through this journey.  

Hbkmorris, I'm so sorry for your friends loss. Just unimagineable what they must be going through. 

Tiffami hope the injecting is going well and the side effects  not too bad.  When is your first scan.  Pray that you get lots of healthy follies.  

Emz, so sorry for the bfn.  A holiday away from everything sounds nice. Especially in this weather when it hard to getout.  

A few so you have been considering councelling.  I went through years of tx without any councelling or even FF!  After last bfn lost all my resolve and started councelling. First lady was not my cup of tea. Put me off when she said i should not expect support from my hub! What!?  Anyway the other lady at my centre was much better and im so glad Ive been seeing her.  She cant chang anything or change the emotions, but she is a non judging person who I can let it all out without worrying that i am going over the samething again and again, or she will say something hurtful whilst trying to "help".  I found it a safe place to let it all out.  But you may need to see a few people before you find someone whos style meets your needs.  

Hugs and thoughts to you all.

Hope that none of you are suffering to badly with the weather.  

Ayah xxx


----------



## bailey434

Hi Ayah

I really agree with you on the counselling. I feel a lot calmer since I talked to the counsellor and like you said nothing has changed unfortunately but it is an outlet without any judgement. My counsellor is lovely and helped me to realise that I'm justified to be feeling the way that I am. I'm sure it is about the right person too though and would encourage anyone to try a different counsellor if you don't feel comfortable. There is a nurse at my clinic who I really don't feel comfortable with as I feel she has no empathy for us ladies going through treatment and so I am going to ask to not have her in my future treatments if possible, whether it happens remains to be seen.

Marshey, hope that you are ok and it went ok (or as well at it could) at work. Have been thinking about you a lot over the last few days and hoping you are ok


----------



## ayah

Hi baily,

Glad the councelling went well.  Like you say it good to know those feeling are valid and dont need justification.  The rest of the world including DH can try and fix things and move use on, but grief is a process that has its own time line.  
All best ladies
Ayah xxx


----------



## Louella97

Dear all

Hope you dont mind me joining this thread,
I still seem to be mopping around after my negative result 2 weeks ago. 
Cant seem to be able to shake the sadness and get positive
Funds are running low, each cycle seems to be emotionally draining when Af arrives.

Need a large injection of positive vibes    

LOU X


----------



## bailey434

Hi Louella, so sorry that you are feeling down, just wanted to say a quick hello. 

Be kind to yourself and know that we understand how hard this process is. The ladies on this thread are all very supportive and hopefully you will find some comfort from them, I know I have.


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Louella

Welcome to our little group, we all know how you feel so hopefully we can provide you with some support.

The sadness just holds onto you doesn't it, like a vice, sometimes it releases it's grasp but then tightens back up again.

I had a FET BFN in Dec and I am still having sad days when all I want to do is stay in bed.

We got a new puppy two weeks ago so that's not an option anymore which is good for me and if I need a cuddle little puppy or my older dog are there with that unconditional love that they give!

Have you considered immunes testing? We had this dome privately at the Lister, our NHS clinic doesn't do them, and I highly recommend the tests and the Lister.

Keep posting on here whenever you feel sad and one of us will be here for you!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi, 

I am going to through out relaxation, yoga and exercise over and above the counselling.  The exercise is so important - I noticed a huge diff when I stopped for a few weeks in the last bit of my cycle.

Relaxation/meditation - there are some great ones in the App Store by a Scottish guy that you can listen to to fall asleep with.  If you are interested please let me know.  

As for yoga - I have found a great fertility yoga class with woman all struggling in some way to get pregnant!  It is amazing!  

Just my two cents - support yourself and your husband will follow.  But I have the greatest one in the entire world! 

Tee


----------



## emz2402

Hi, hope everyone is having a better day today. I almost felt guilty today because the two pregnant women at work were out the office today and it was bliss to be able to just get on with my work without having baby talk all day long. I actually managed to not think about my situation for a good couple of hrs today. 

I'm starting some exercise classes next week, I feel like I need to get myself moving as all I do at the moment is go to work and come home and mope about.

Hi Louella, I know how you feel, it's draining feeling like this all the time. This group has been so helpful for me, just realising that you're not the only one going through this - hope it help you and we're always here to ask questions or just have a moan and rant at!! It's amazing how good you feel when you let it all out and everyone completely understands.

Xxx


----------



## Louella97

emz2402/ pudding34/ bailey434/teeinparis Thank you ladies for you advice and PMA!!! It has made me feel brighter already.
Talking to ladies who know exactly how it feels to go through it all

emz2402; I know what you mean, l don't begrudge anyone being pregnant, but it can be cruel having to listen  to repetitive babytalk without feeling down about it.

teeinparis: Do you know the name of that app you mentioned? Im finding sleeping difficult so that could help

thanks Lou x


----------



## Teeinparis

Lou, 

There are a series by Andrew Johnson.  There is a deep sleep one, relax one etc.  You can adjust the settings to fall asleep - replay a few times etc. 

Tee


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi guys

Tee impairs, glad to see the meditation is working it worked for me too. It's amazing actually if you are receptive to it. I downloaded from circle and bloom they are specific to infertility and IVF or infertility. It allows you to visualize your female organs, baby, healthy womb etc...love it. 

Ayah thanks, my meds are giving me migraines for now. On different protocol. Hopefully it was only today. This morning felt terrible but now better. Scan is on Sunday and should be taking eggs out the following Thursday or fri. 

Does anyone know what I can do to help with implanting u heard pineapple good, is that a myth?

Good luck everyone with people starting cycles and people recovering.


----------



## Pudding34

Tiffany

I heard pineapple juice was good not the fruit itself but my clinic said no it's not good for you at all!

Think best to avoid!

I have been told that Brazil nuts are good but only 4 or so a day!

Pudding
X


----------



## ayah

Hi Tiffanymi, 

No idea about pinnapple and conception but my midwife suggested it for bringing on labour  if taken daily from a few weeks before you due.  So guess it might have some sort of effect on hormones.  As i not heard that it bad any other time in pregnacey i would assum that means it will do no harm.  She told me it must be fresh though, not juice or canned.

Also good for taste changes too.  Will be watchng this space to see what everyone else says.  Do like a bit of food remedy

Really excited for you.  Hope all goes well.


Hi Lou, so sorry for your bfn.  These ladies here are so great I cant keep away from them.  You will get a lot of support here and so nice to get different perspective on things and ways to help ride the pain.  Hope that it gets easier for you soon.

Ayah xxx


----------



## ayah

Hi Pudding

Just seen your post.  Just shows how little is really known about yhis game, with conflicting info and advice.  If in dout aviod!


----------



## Pudding34

Ayah

My clinic said that the enzyme in pineapple causes the uterus to contract which is not conducive to implantation, which makes sense if you want to bring on labour!

Pudding 
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks pudding and ayah. 

I will look into it. Lol so funny that everyone has heard something different.....makes you wonder what we really know and what is myth. 

Have a good night!!


----------



## Lou_1986

Ah thank you Tee!!

Will deffo look into that too  xx I have my follow up app for Tuesday so will let you all know how we get on xxx


----------



## ayah

Thanks pudding, that would make sence. Funny how it not common knowlege in the infertlity world as it could make diference to tx outcome.  

Well ladies hope that you all are able to make use of it effects in the  near future

Take care

Ayah


----------



## Lou_1986

Thank you Ayah

Feeling a lot better and stronger now thank you xxx 😊


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi guys

Lou glad you are feeling stronger. 

I went for scan today, looks like I have 8 follicles, last time many were empty though but keeping hope. 8 is quite standard for me. Going in Thursday probably to take eggs out. Trying to stay one step at a time but it is so petrifying....


----------



## Pudding34

Morning ladies, happy Monday to you all!

I had weird experience over the weekend.

An old friend of my DH got engaged to his girlfriend and I was immediately happy for them but then I had this sinking feeling that they would soon get pregnant.

They are both a couple of years younger than us and it's a stupid immature jealous feeling that I just can't shake!

I'm used to feeling jealous and sad for myself when my friends get pregnant but this is taking it one step too far!

Please tell me that I am not alone as I feel like the worst person in the world for thinking such jealous thoughts!

Pudding
X


----------



## Hbkmorris

Hi Pudding.. You are SO not alone.. trust me I have the same feeling with my friends wedding which is in May, I keep thinking she'll be pregnant end of the year! Trust me it's a natural feeling and perfectly normal. 

Keep positive and strong for yourself.. I've actually declined the wedding invite as I can't handle just the thought of it all. xx


----------



## Pudding34

Thank you hbkmorris you don't know what your support means to me I've been torturing myself all weekend for being a bad person who can't be happy for others!

I got asked for our address for a wedding  invite from a friend last week, I am dreading the invitation arriving.

My friend that is getting married had cervical cancer a few years ago and has been told that children are not possible but I still think in the back of my mind that it might happen, plus all those friends with kids asking us why we aren't pregnant yet it's just water torture isn't it! 

I have an invite that I havent replied to yet for a baby's dedication, the mum is one of my oldest friends and I just can't face it all yet! There will be other new mums all close friends of mine and it's all just a constant reminder of what I don't have!

Uuuurrrrrgggghhhhhi just read all of the above and I cannot slide into a dark day today, I've got too much to do!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi, 

You just can't compare.  And if it does happen for them be happy but know it will happen for you too.  Just focus on you and your path.  Keep positive


----------



## Pudding34

I know I shouldn't compare, and my very first response was pure happiness for them both as they are both the sweetest people in the world and a great couple!

But you can't help how you react deep inside can you!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

It's also hard to explain to people who haven't been through it, I was trying to explain it to my friend yesterday and although she was being supportive I could see that she didn't really get it....

I find it hard when people are complaining about their little ones and get to a point where I could shake them and say how much I would give to be in their position. 

I've learnt alot through this first unsuccesful cycle about whether people are good listeners by if they listen for the first sentence or so and then go 'oh i know, such and such happened to me....' and try and make it about themselves. It has also taught me to be more aware when people are wanting to talk about something (not necessarily about babies) to make sure I'm properly listening and giving them the right attention.

Wishing you all a better and calmer afternoon ladies


----------



## Stacey84

Hi All, hope everyone had a good weekend.

Good luck for Thursday Tiffany.

Lou, I hope your appointment goes well tomorrow, I've  not got mine through yet. Let us know how you get on.

Pudding, you are not alone, I think all of us on here have probably had similar thoughts/situations. 

Just today in fact. My school friends and I all turn 30 this year, The first of us turns 30 next month, and her youngest (she has 3 kids) turns 2 a couple of days before so she is having a party at her house to celebrate her 30th and her son's 2nd birthday. It's bad to say but luckily I have already promised another good friend from a different group of friends that I will go wedding dress shopping with her on the same day, so I have a reason not to go. Even if I didn't have other plans, I'm not sure I would be able to go. I feel bad thinking it but I just don't know how I would handle celebrating the fact she is 30 with 3 kids, and I have none. And there will be lots of kids at the party, which I think would just upset me. I don't even know how to explain this to her coz I know however I try and explain it, it will come out wrong, and I don't want her to feel bad or to take it personally. But I don't want to just say I have other plans, coz then she'll think I don't care! It's difficult finding the right words.

I hope everyone has had a good Monday

xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Pudding, I understand fully, it's not that you are a bad person or that you wish bad on anyone at all....it's just something you so badly want and have no control over at all and that others can so easily do it. 

I had the same. I had friends who met 10 years after me and my husband, only married last year and are delivering in June. I don't wish bad on them but am sad for myself and a lil jealous. But it's not to do with them it's just I want it so badly. 

Stacey 84 thanks for the luck. It may be Thursday or Friday.


Hope everyone has a good week xxxx


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Ladies

Thank you Stacey Bailey and Tiffany for your words of support!

Last year in May I had a colposcopy due to an abnormal smear, all was fine but they wanted a follow up in 6 months, that coincided with my last cycle so I had to defer it.

I now have the appointment at the beginning of March but my clinic has said that if it causes me to bleed they won't be able to do my planned Hysteroscopy and scratch in mid March.

I know that it's important to make sure all is well as far as the colposcopy is concerned before the cycle but I can't help worrying and thinking why does it all happen at once.

I don't remember bleeding more than a bit of spotting after the last colposcopy but I wasn't really thinking about it at the time so perhaps it did effect my cycle!

So now I am back to worrying about it all again and potentially having to defer a cycle that I havent even started yet!

I just want to cry, every setback just knocks all the progress I have made out of me and I am back to that sense of desperation!

Scrub that I am crying now, it's all just so unfair!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

Sorry that you are having a hard time at the moment Pudding  

I can understand that it must be so frustrating but you need to make sure that your overall health is a.o.k before going into your cycle as then that is one less thing to worry about. Any delays are really frustrating, especially when it feels that nothing happens particularly quickly in IVF at the best of times    How long would it be delayed (if it has to be)?

We'll all keep everything crossed   that you have no side effects afterwards. Could you talk to the doctor who is doing the follow up and explain how worried you are and then they might be extra specially careful (you would hope they are normally but if they know how important it is then hopefully they will be very gentle)

I really hope that you get a restful nights sleep and that tomorrow you feel a bit stronger (even if just a tiny bit)


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi pudding

Sorry about your setback. Each step is so hard it tares the soul. I honestly feel for you as time is the most precious thing with IVF as each delay is another month and another....etc


 bailey is right in that you need to make your body as strong as you possibly can and health is so important to sort out before. Pic know it doesn't make it easier.....take it one step at a time, and if you need to wait make the days lost count in building yourself mind, body, health up. Xxx


----------



## Teeinparis

Wish me luck - EC today after delays and some ups and downs.  

Wishing all of you love and understanding. 

Tee


----------



## Pudding34

Thanks ladies your support really helps!

Good luck Tee I hope it all goes well! I'll be thinking of you!

Pudding
X


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Ladies

So after thinking about it a lot I have rearranged the Colposcopy for tomorrow, it will be a different consultant but I think it is better to get it over and done with!

Bailey is your profile pic a pic of your dogs?

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

Good luck for tomorrow Pudding, fingers crossed it all goes well  

Yeah those are my two bundles of fun. The youngster, Mexi, is the brown one at 3.5yrs and Bailey is the white one, being the old lady at nearly 14! They keep me sane and have been so aligned to my moods (ie. won't leave me alone when I'm having a wobbly day) and they give great cuddles


----------



## Pudding34

Is Mexi a field spaniel? My dad has a field spaniel and he looks just like him but it's a tiny picture so hard to tell.

We have two border collies our oldest Kimmie is 2 and a half, she is beautiful and looked after me when I had my two chemicals, it's funny how they know something is up isn't it! and our baby Barney is only 9 weeks! He is bundles of fun! Currently loves testing his teeth on my ankles!!!!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

They are both cockers but Mexi is a lot bigger and sturdier and does look a lot like a field spaniel yes. She ic a chocolate roan but is mainly brown apart from a little bit of white on her coat and a pure white tail!  

Awww a puppy, I love the puppy stage, although it's hard work! Bet he is a cutie at 9 weeks

They definitely know when something is not right, Mexi can tell straight away just from looking in my eyes and normally ends up by demanding to sit in my lap for a cuddle. They literally lay next to me on the sofa after ET and knew that they needed to be quieter and more gentle somehow! Angels in fur coats as my friend says  

Keep us updated on how you get on tomorrow and don't forget to tell them how worried you are


----------



## Pudding34

Bless you for being so sweet Bailey, your little hug icon has made me cry!

I am doing that a lot at the moment, think the stress of the buildup is making me very emotional! Plus the stress of all this colposcopy delay business.

Both your fur babies are beautiful!

My dad thought Oscar was a cocker but he is much bigger, like you say Mexi is, so we assume there is some field spaniel in there somewhere, he is also a brown roan and was more white than brown when he was a baby but is more brown than white now, still has some patterning on his back.

Barney is a little cutie and very fluffy! Makes him look about twice his actual size!

I spoke to my clinic about my changed appointment for the colposcopy and the consultant has now said that if they need to take a biopsy tomorrow they will have to push my treatment for a month.

I can't help thinking that it's my own fault, I should have chased up the follow up in January but after the failed cycle I was all over the place and didn't even think about it!

I have to just hope that the doc tomorrow does not want to do a biopsy although they did last year so I'm not that hopeful!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Going in for egg retrieval tomorrow. Hoping all goes well.


----------



## Pudding34

Good luck for tomorrow TIffany.

Tee I hope all went well for you today!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

Good luck for tomorrow Tiffanymi, will keep everything crossed for you  

Pudding your Dad's dog sounds so much like Mexi! She was nearly all white with brown splodges as a tiny pup and now she's the opposite (apart from the tail which stayed white from day one)  

I've got my follow up appointment tomorrow, so it sounds like an important day tomorrow for a few of us, lots of   and   xx


----------



## Teeinparis

Thanks all!  In much less pain this time.  Although the procedure hurts so much! 

We got 7 eggs so see fertilisation tomorrow!  Fingers crossed. 

Sleep well all

Tee


----------



## bailey434

Great news Tee, fingers crossed for your 7   Rest up and take care of yourself now x


----------



## Pudding34

Well done Tee that is great news!

I'll keep my fingers crossed for your lucky 7!

Take good care of yourself!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hey guys. Out of the clinic. Managed to get 8 eggs. Hoping and praying xxx


----------



## bailey434

Brilliant news Tiffany, well done! Will keep everything crossed for your magic 8


----------



## Pudding34

Tiffany, that is wonderful news well done darling, rest up and let us know how it goes!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Can I have a bath the night before ET?


----------



## Pudding34

Tee I don't know the answer to this all I know is I was advised against them whilst on the 2ww! Sorry I can't be more help! How did the fertilisation go?

AFM I had my colposcopy appointment today, they told me that I didn't actually need to go back and could have waited for a three year smear! This was not what he consultant told me last year and to what her sec told me when I called to check but it is a new protocol so maybe hasn't sifted through yet, or maybe as I was private last year they though it would be private again I just don't know! So anyway all that worry for nothing!

As I went they wanted to have a look in there anyway and I said hey well enough people have looked in my hoohaa over the last year or so one more won't make much difference! 

The live screen of all the action made me feel a bit odd, not sure I needed to see that much of myself that close up! Kind of like some kind of alien movie!!!!!!!!!!

The good news was there was no biopsy so I can still go ahead with the cycle in march! Just waiting for my fen period to start he countdown to down regs.

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi guys 

Bailey and pudding thanks for the wishes

Pudding, so glad you can still go great news, thanks for the lol story and visuals. 

I am transferring back Tuesday just preying the embryos last. 

Tee, I also heard no bathing but only from ET, maybe just to be safe though rather shower. 

Night everyone xxx


----------



## Teeinparis

Great news pudding!  I think a yearly Pap smear if you have found things is good practice even if you have to go private.  I think they should be yearly in the UK.  They are in Canada, Australia and France. (Haven't lived elsewhere)

I have five fertilized and my transfer tomorrow.  Not sure why three day but that seems sop here.  I know my accu said a lot can happen before blasto and was relieved they were doing it.  She is American and new to the French system. 

Now I just need strategies for 2ww.  

Love to all.  Sleep well and keep exercising - the stress of all this!  Then once you start you can't and the water retention sucks!.

Tee


----------



## Pudding34

Tiffany sorry if it was TMI! ;-) I have to laugh at this stuff or I will go mad!
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for all to be well for Tuesday!

Tee that is wonderful news, I think a lot of places over here do three days as well!
Strategies for 2ww? Let's see! 

Will you be working or having time off?

Do you knit? I learnt how to knit scarves using ribbon wool on my last 2ww I gave them away as Christmas and birthday presents it's very relaxing! Not sure I could handle anything more complicated though!!!

How about box sets on sky? 

Have you tried hypnotherapy downloads? I have one that helps me fall asleep when all I can think about is the 2ww.

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

Great news Pudding, you must be so relieved all is well and you can go ahead 

5 fertilised is great Tee, well done! Box sets are a definite, I've got Breaking Bad waiting for my next 2ww  and I would recommend hypno cd's too, I had one that my friend gave me, which is a lady called Helen McPherson called The Belief CD, which has 3 different relaxations phases for down reg, EC to ET and then ET and 2ww. I haven't managed to get to the end of one of them yet before falling asleep which I see as a good sign  

AFM I've been for my review meeting today and as expected she couldn't tell me specifically why it didn't work unfortunately. But we came up with a hopefully kick-ass plan for the next cycle, which includes higher dose of menopur, some kind of blood thinning injections after ET (can't remember their name, something beginning with a c?), possible steroids (she's happy to prescribe them but said there isn't a whole lot of evidence as to their benefit), and an endo scratch. She also wants me to consider having 2 embryos put back in next time (if I manage to get 2 good ones) which is a bit scary for me as am doing this alone and the thought of twins is worrying due to finances and just day-to-day logistics too. But she said that the risk of twins was less than the risk of me not getting pregnant so that made me think a bit more.....ho hum. On the downside I can't start until April, although the nurse had said I could start as soon as my natural period has arrived, but the consultant wants me to wait for the following one, so that was a bit of a bummer as was hoping to start within the next month  must remember that all good things come to those who wait....


----------



## Pudding34

Bailey was it claxane?

Pudding
X


----------



## marshey3

Hi Ladies

Sorry been absent this week, my first full week back in work this week!! Hope everyone is good.

Pudding fab news for you i see.

Tiffany and Tee congrats on your EC and everything crossed for your ETs.

Will catch up at the weekend with you again, nearly here!! 
xxx


----------



## bailey434

Yeah I think that might have been it Pudding, she's going to write to me officially and give me all the info. Have you used that then?

Hey Marshey, good to hear from you, hope it's been ok at work


----------



## Teeinparis

Bailey did they not freeze any eggs?


----------



## bailey434

Hi Tee, no unfortunately not, I had 5 fertilised, 3 8-cells at Day 3 and so they put the strongest back in but the other two only made it to pre-blastocyst stage unfortunately, so having to start from scratch again but with stronger drugs and more 'extras'. 

Fingers crossed for round 2, when I get there!


----------



## Pudding34

Bailey, I haven't had claxane before but my NHS consultant has said she will prescribe it for me on the upcoming cycle even though my Thrombophilia screen came back clear during my private tests!

Hi Marshey good to hear from you hope work went well this week!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Marshy thanks for the good wishes

Bailey, sorry to hear you didn't get some form if concrete information about the failed cycle. I know how it feels, so frustrating but your doc seems to be very proactive and the extras seem to be what I have heard works. I have clexane every cycle due to me having a hereditary thing where I am prone to blood clots. The injections are a little sorer than the others but not bad at all. Stings a bit for a few seconds but then ou rally don't feel it at all. But they are a big big pain if you are taking for the full 2ww as your stomach gets super sensitive and sore. But I heard Wally helps suringIVF.  

Hope you guys have a great Friday. TGIF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's all I can say. 

I am interested as well for any tips on how to increase implantation during 2ww. 

Night night xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi guys, first day and still have 7 of the 8 eggs. Usually I loose half first day. But have to wait until 5 day retrieval which is scary because need to keep them...


----------



## Pudding34

That's great news Tiffany keep the faith! I am sending positive thoughts to your embies!

Tee how are you doing?

Found out today I am too fat for my new cycle!

I've been exercising but it's just not coming off!

So I have a week to prove I can lose some and three weeks to get it down to a good level which means losing about 9kgs in three weeks, sounds impossible but I am a believer and I don't have much work on so I can focus on my goals!

Did an hour long workout in our home gym earlier and the dog has had two walks today so she is a happy bunny!!!

Little puppy had his microchip done today, not even a whimper, he is a lot braver than his Mumma around needles! Although to be fair he was eating a biscuit at the time, wish I could do that!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi all, had my transfer today.  3 transferred and two frozen.  I am have bleeding when I wipe which is concerning me a bit.  Iay call the doc tomorrow to see what he says. 

Pud - celebrity slim from boots is great.  Just stick to it for two or three weeks with exercise.  Gillian Michaels 30 min shred is the best.  

Night all


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Pudding wow that's crazy but give it all you got to take the extra weight off. Did your doc actually say that to you. 

Teen, hope your blood isn't serious when you call the doctor xxx


----------



## Pudding34

Im afraid so Tiffany! She didn't say "fat" but the connotation is the same!

What's really annoying is that the last time I saw her when I was heavier than I am now, she said I looked like I had lost weight! 

I think it is because I am exercising more, I am converting fat to muscle and  it weighs more!

My clothes fit better and I even fit into dresses I haven't fitted into for about 4 years!

Anyway, I am focused and committed to it, I spent an hour in our home gym this morning and then walked my oldest fur baby and my dad's dog for an hour over the fields! They came back bogging, as it's a filthy muddy mess over there but we all had a good workout and all three of them are now sound asleep!

I am back to counting my calories which has always worked for me in the past!

Tee did you call the docs? Is all okay?

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Very light spotting today.  I think it must have just been from the procedure as he unfortunately had to use forceps.  Just hope they stick in there!


----------



## bailey434

Forceps Tee?? That sounds horrendous! No wonder you had some bleeding, hope you are feeling better today 

I've just ordered a fitness DVD Pudding as am determined to lose some weight before my next cycle and as I have about 7 weeks then I need something to focus on until then


----------



## Teeinparis

Seriously Gillian michaels 30 day shred is the best.  Plus the celebrity slim shakes work well.  They really kickstart your metabolism.  

I will do them again if the cycle isn't successful.


----------



## Teeinparis

Ya. The forceps and during collection my ovaries decided to hide.  I think they were angry at me!


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

ET tomorrow. Hoping for some strong survivors. Confused as to whether I should put 2 or 3 back. Usually put 3 but always a risk,,,although it's never yielded any results, this time the meds are changed up....

Can you believe I forgot how many IVFs I had done. I may have a month ago told some of you guys I was on my 6th, I'm actually on my 5th. Not good news when you loose track.....

Either way, hoping and preying.....

Tee hopefully we have a double good news in March.


----------



## Pudding34

Good luck for tomorrow Tiffany, I'll be rooting for you!

AFM I have lost 2kgs so far which is awesome news, I've just got to keep it going over the next week so that they don't cancel my Hysteroscopy and then the following three to give the cycle the best chance!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks pudding. Wow that's fantastic!! You are one fighter. Good luck. Hope it all works out, you are making some good progress. Just keep the positivity


----------



## bailey434

Good luck for tomorrow Tiffany, will keep everything crossed for you  

Wow that's great Pudding well done you. I've started calorie counting today and have ordered a fitness DVD. Just been on a longer walk with the pooches so they are now passed out on the floor   it's all got to count eh?!


----------



## Pudding34

Thanks Tiffany and Bailey

I have always responded well to deadlines so maybe it's actually a good thing!

Bailey if you are calorie counting have you tried My Fitness Planner and Map my Walk?

You enter all your details weight, height age etc and Map my Walk measures how far you have walked in what time and how many calories you have burned I find it invaluable while walking big puppy! I try to beat yesterday's time on our usual route each day!

My Fitness Planner documents  all the food you eat and exercise you do to calculate how much you can eat and based on that, your exercise and your weight and height etc tells you how much you should lose if you stick to it!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

Haha that's what I'm using! It's great isn't it. Also lets me tracks my protein amounts which will be good when I start my treatment again 

I'd forgotten about Map my Walk, so thanks, will boot that one back up too. I'm on a mission as like you I need something to focus on (distract me)  
x


----------



## marshey3

Hiya Ladies

How are we all?

Good luck for tomorrow Tiffany.🍀
Pudding am sure you will achieve this, I am trying to do the same having not exercised since before Christmas and it's hard.

Works been fine but feeling a bit down at the moment, a lady I chat to on ******* had her ET same day as me and she has her 12w scan tomorrow.😢😢😢 I am finding really hard not to be jealous and I keep wishing it was me.

Lots of tears yesterday and today but think my period is on it's way too. OH is great but just doesn't get how I'm feeling about it.

Sorry to be a miserable post.

Xxxx


----------



## Pudding34

Oh Marshey feeling jealous of others especially those who are at the stage you would have been is perfectly normal, in fact if you weren't jealous you would be weird, you're not weird are you?! ;-) of course you aren't!

The tears are good babe, they are letting the pain out and allowing you to heal, let them come and soon they will be further and further apart!

I read and commented on a thread on here about adverts for babies being everywhere! Today I encountered a new evilness, American sitcoms, everywhere I turned all I got was people with fertility issues, okay it was two shows, rules of engagement and how I met your mother,  but they are on a loop so when you flick the channels there they are! I won't lie to you I had a little cry at how I met your mother because one of the characters found out she couldn't have kids! Stupid huh, but I'm not weird either so crying is perfectly okay! Oh okay I am a little bit weird! But in a good way! ;-)

Love and hugs honey! It will get better!

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

Thanks marshes and bailey for the wishes. 

Bailey all the best with your fitness and weight loss. I admire you and pudding. 

Marshey, I feel so deeply for you. It's not like you wish anyone bad luck, but when you have bonded and the other person has left you behind it hurts, hit because you wish them bad but because you wish yourself good. All the people I got close to chatting for IVF have left me behind and gone on to conceive. And I am still at the same point and it hurts. Hang in there and try to look at the next steps as much as possible. 

Night guys


----------



## ayah

Hello ladies,

Wow so much goeson here in justover a week.

Teen congrates on the ET.  When do you test?  So excited for you.

Tiffanymi, all best for your ET.  We were not allowed to transfer more than 2 eggs due to increased risks with multipuls.  Ment we had to let eggs go that we couldnot transfer but were not good enough to freeze.  Felt like i was throwing my babies away, but as the good ones never made it, then the end result, i guess, would have been the same.  Whatever you decide i hope all goes well.  

Pudding fantasticon the weight loss.  I lost three stone on a low GI diet as I have PCOS which  effect suger metabolism.  The metformin should help too.  Mind out for hinden suger in low fat food.  Sometimes you are better off with small portions of full fat and v low suger.  Keep the protein up too.  When i had energy i do lunges whilstbrushing my teeth .  

Oh just been staring at the screen for a while must be getting too tired.  All best the  bailey , marshy.And anyone imissed.  Positive  thought for you all

Xxx


----------



## Teeinparis

Trying to plan my day.  I started cleaning the bathroom yesterday and just got exhausted half way through.  So tired it is amazing.  My mind wants to do stuff but my body seems to be saying no way.  Here's to getting through my to do list today ; )


----------



## Pudding34

Evening Ladies!

I have lost another 0.3kg so feeling pretty positive today, need to lose about another 1.7kg at least by Friday to prove I can lose the rest before down regs start!

Tee how are you doing today?

Tiffany how did it go today hope you are feeling okay after Transfer!

Marshey how are you feeling today?

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

Thanks ayah. 

Pudding well done on loosing more

Tee, this process and meds are tiring, it's amazing how little things take so much time. 


So feedback on my ET. I was very sad today. It was a roller coaster. After thinking I had 7 potential good eggs. This morning Hubby calls the lab and they basicallys at we have. 1 only and that one isn't even that strong and the rest are dying or near dying. They also asked if I can ET tomorrow to see how the one does. But I had to go today and they were comfortable as it wouldn't make a difference to outcome. I was so upset...how did this happen from hero to zero.

Either way at clinic they said they have 1 egg that since that morning sped up a lot and now I have 2 to put back in. But both not great quality. And then they said I have 5 slow slow ones which probably will die but we should wait to see. Long story short they put 3. 2 of the best of the worst and 1 of the slow moving one. 

I am really really sad about this. But I am still going to hope that miracles happen and that something is in store. But you know that dreaded feeling where it hits u that it probably won't work. Don't think I can take another BFN and now through changing clinics, protocols, and having great eggs up until yesterday, now I have very low quality. But better than having one that I thought I only had is morning. 

I know it's not over til it's over, so still hoping, but my heart is sore


----------



## Pudding34

Tiffany my heart has broken reading your post I'm so very sorry that you have had such a horrible day.

I hope that you can stay strong and be positive, you are so right it isn't over till it's over don't forget that!

Im sending you love, hugs and support, we are all here for you if you want to talk.

Pudding
X


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## marshey3

Tiffany, am so sorry to hear this hun, have everything crossed for you lovely. 

Thanks Pudding am doing ok today, so glad i have you guys to talk too, i do kinda feel better after a good cry!!! Well done on your weight lose this week.

I know i've said this before but this board is a godsend and all us lovely Ladies are amazing considering what we have to go through to try and get what others find so easy!!!!

lots of love
xxx


----------



## Pudding34

Thanks Marshey!

I'm glad you are feeling a bit better today!

I echo what you said, I think I would have gone ga ha without all you lovely ladies to talk to!

Pudding
X


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## bailey434

Sorry you've had a rough day Tiffany, in some ways I hate ET day as suddenly things change at the last minute when you thought it was all under control. BUT, saying all that, you have 3 put back so that is 3 little rays of hope. Hang in there and we will keep everything crossed for you    

Pudding have they set you the target for Friday? Not saying that you can't do it and you have done amazingly so far but it seems quite a lot to lose in a short time? Just be careful ok, don't do any silly no eating for 2 days or anything ok     Or are they testing you to see if you will rise to the challenge maybe? 

AFM have me have not had a great day as found out my Dad has to go back on chemo     he has a non-curable cancer and has had 2 bone marrow transplants and lots of rounds of chemo over the last 10 yrs and was in remission but it's all changed again unfortunately. He is ok about it all (or as much as he can be) but my Mum was very wobbly on the phone earlier which then made me feel even more emotional. 
Life is really throwing us all some wobblers at the moment eh??


----------



## Pudding34

Bailey

So sorry to hear about your Dad, life is certainly unfair at times isn't it!

The clinic set me the target for before the cycle started and I have to show significant improvement by Friday!

If I could not eat for two days I wouldn't have this problem in the first place! Ha ha! I love my food too much that's the problem!

I'm just exercising and calorie counting, no crisps, no biscuits or chocolate! Think also my thyroxine and metformin are finally kicking in!

Big hug to you!

Pudding
X


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## bailey434

Thanks Pudding. That's good to hear that you are being sensible    don't forget to use the oldest trick in the book before your appointment on Friday....have a wee before you get weighed    I'm sure they will be able to see that you've shown significant improvement with all your hard work  

I've decided to give up chocolate, biscuits and cakes for Lent. I've already technically given them up this week with the calorie counting but thought it might help to tell my team that I'm giving it up for Lent as then they won't get as suspicious (I normally buy or make the sweet treats for the team) that I'm suddenly not eating them  My DVD should arrive tomorrow hopefully so will no doubt be aching on Thursday  
x


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## Pudding34

Funnily enough I offered to go in and be weighed but they said they would take my word for it! A test of honesty I suppose but if I can't do it there is little point proceeding even if it will break my heart to delay it !

I have always been the sort of person who responds to deadlines I always waited till the eleventh hour to write papers at Uni and to study for exams!

I'm so lucky to have a flexible work environment to be able to exercise as much as I need! 

Pudding
X


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## Pudding34

This may sound crazy but it's driving me mad so I have to see what you think, my SIL was put on clomid in jan and has booked flights to come over and see us in march which is pretty soon after being here at Christmas, my DH and his family don't really see each other that much! Her ******** page has said that she has been "feeling sick" a few times  in the last couple of weeks and I have this horrible sinking feeling that she maybe coming over to announce her pregnancy. 

She always claimed never to have wanted to have children so I think that how I feel at the moment, with all the stress in the run up to the new cycle, if it goes ahead at all, I think that this might break me!

It's not like a quick visit it is three days!

DH says no that's not what it is but I'm just not sure! She has also made references to going out drinking which I am sure she wouldn't do if she was or thought she might be pregnant but then I know of friends who have lied about partying to over their first 12 weeks and keep it a secret!

Tee and TIffany I hope you are both doing okay today I have been  thinking of you both!

Pudding
X


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## bailey434

Hhhmm interesting....that does sound a little mysterious. Could your DH do a bit of digging with her on the phone or email to find out if there is any particular reason, so that you are fore-warned in case she does do a big announcement? 

I assume she knows that you are going through treatment so would hope that she would be a little more tactful than a big announcement? But then again people who are not going through treatment can't really understand to the same extent about how much another pregnancy announcement can affect you/us all....  

When I told my sister that I was going to have IVF she then told me that it only took them one month to get pregnant, and she'd been on the pill until the month before.....all from the girl who didn't want children at all and then did a big u-turn and got pregnant the next month......cheerfully could have punched her at that point.... 
x


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## Pudding34

Sadly although she knows all about our treatment and how it has affected both of us I  think that she will be one of those people that makes a big fuss out of the announcement but then try to make out that she wanted to tell us in person to make it easier on us! When in actual fact of she was thinking about us she would never make a big fuss about it!

She has always said she never wanted kids and then when she found out we were trying which was just before we found out we had a problem she suddenly started trying, everything is always a competition with her so I think that she kind of sees getting pregnant first as a competition!

I have asked DH to find out carefully if she is!

Here is the hard thing though, if she isn't then asking would be mean, I know I would hate it so I have asked DH to be tactful which isn't exactly his forte!

But faced with my possible complete meltdown in the face of a big announcement that is the lesser of two evils it think!

It would probably be easier if she had always wanted kids but she has always been  adamant that she doesn't want kids so it will be harder to be happy for her! Especially if the announcement isn't tactful to us!

My other SIL, who also has PCOS and other issues, and I have agreed that we will warn the other one on the phone if we ever get pregnant so no ambush!

I suggested this to DHs Sister but I don't know if she really gets how hard it is, so don't think she took  it seriously!

I would have held your sister down while you punched her, now that is real friendship! One of my friends told me it took her "two whole months" to get pregnant and now her baby won't be a Leo! Disaster!!!!!!!

Pudding
X


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## bailey434

Wow she sounds like my sister in lots of ways. She doesn't MEAN to be insensitive but gets it spot on everytime. I didn't hear from her AT ALL during the 2ww and then she texted me the day AFTER my test to find out what was happening. I was SO angry I was shaking and she got a mouthful about 'how if she had bothered to be in touch at all then she would know how difficult it has been etc etc but that I guessed she was just too busy....'  She was then mortified that she hadn't realised of course, but this is what she does and then SHE gets upset and everyone just says 'oh that's just her way' and I'm left feeling like the baddie. GGGRRRR    She also said ''well it's not like you want a ready made family' when I was trying to include her in my thoughts about how many embryos to put back next time.... I wanted to scream down the phone 'well yes that is exactly what I want!!'  My Dad even said at the weekend to make sure that I don't make too much out of the situation with her so there isn't a family rift! This is after I think I've been more than gracious and have phoned her about 3 times since in the effort of going back to 'normal'.  Hopefully she has taken it all on board for next time but who knows.... 

I get what you mean though about if she ISN'T pregnant...it's a tricky one. Maybe DH could just ask if there was anything in particular she was coming to visit for and if she had any news? but be very vague in terms of asking directly if she is pregnant?

OMG about your friend worrying about what star sign her baby will be!!! If only that was all we had to worry about eh?    I just hold on to the fact that we will cherish EVERY little thing (including teething, poor sleeping etce etc etc) when it is our turn  
x


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## Teeinparis

Thanks for the wishes.  

The bottom line is we never know others stories.  With the clomid it is hard as it makes you go crazy.  Being an expat myself as soon as I went on clomid all I wanted was to talk to my mum everyday and move home.  Before that never.  

Of course this is so hard but these feelings too shall pass and it is never the niece or nephews fault and they need a good uncle and aunt.  

My view is she is home sick.  Not getting pregnant easily does that.  Plus with the maths that is barely three months I can't see flying before the scan gives you the all clear.  

I know it's hard but if they are they are - you need to just acknowledge you are jealous and go from there and really it hasn't been easy for them, If on clomid so if she wants a big celebration I can understand that too.  She deserves it just like we all do.  As much as we should try to be sensitive you have to live your life and what is sensitive to one is not to another.  

Stay strong and just worry about you.  People change as they get older and wanting a family.  There is nothing wrong with that - every baby is a blessing.  Have a good cry - go for a run and just keep going. 

Don't let this get you down or I will kick your butt Pud!  All that matters is you preparing for your next go!  

Love Tee


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## Pudding34

Tee please do kick my butt I need it at times!

We are actually they ones that live in a different country to DHs family and you are probably right about the flying thing although  it's only a half hour flight!

The hardest part for me was at Christmas when she told me that even though she was going to try the clomid she wasn't even sure if she wanted children and if they needed ivf would it be worth it? I said if you need to ask that question probably not!

If she does get pregnant I will of course be happy and supportive I will just need that space to acclimatise and if she is coming all this way to ambush me knowing how I feel about it all and in particular announcements I will be every disappointed.

I am starting to think I am being paranoid, she loves dogs and I know she is dying to meet new puppy so perhaps that is all it is along with seeing her brother and sister In law of course!

God IF makes you a crazy paranoid nut bag doesn't it!

But today the sun is shining and I just got back from a lovely walk with big puppy!

Thanks girls for letting me vent and helping me see I may be a loony!

Pudding
X


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## Jojomozz

Hi All,
I feel a bit of a fraud messaging in here as you all seem to have gone through so much more than I and my DH have. DH has azoospermia and he had two SSR where we managed 1 embryo. No frosties. 
We got our BFN two Mondays ago, I stopped the pesseries as directed on the Sunday, I am still struggling with my body! My body temp is all over the place, headaches, my skin is horrendous, constant cramping and bloating and spotting on occasion. I had a lot of blood loss from the day I did my test and that lasted until the weekend. Today it has kicked in a little again. Doctors have said to wait it out. I thought I would kick my own ass and start exercising and eating really good from Monday...it hasn't helped so far. Everything hurts! I'm concerned as I am back at work Monday ( work in special needs secondary school with teenage boys with emotional, social and behavioural issues). I love my job but I'm worried that il break under any stressful situation...I just don't feel like me! I feel like a walking mess lol any tips to get myself in order? 
Xx


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## Pudding34

Jojomozz

You are not a fraud at all!

I'm so very sorry for your BFN, all the ladies on here can sympathise with how you feel, it's painful and demoralising and you can be all over the place for quite a while both physically and emotionally.

I wish there were a magical cure to getting back to normal but sadly I don't think there is.

There are a ton of platitudes I could give you but if you are anything like me you don't want to hear those! 

Instead I will give you my suggestions for coping mechanisms!

Go easy on yourself, don't give up if you have a bad day. You will have good days and bad ones and if you have a bad one don't think you won't have the good ones! A bad day is not a setback it's a day off that's all!

Be honest with your DH about how you feel communication is something we all overlook when we are hurting and sometimes you can end up arguing about nothing so keep talking teach other.

I don't know if you have told other people about your position and treatment but if you have be honest about how you feel with them too, use your support network, it's so easy to close off from people but this isn't a good idea!

Exercising and eating well are a great idea I wish I could have been more disciplined after my last cycle!

Finally and probably the thing that has helped me the most is keep talking to us and other FF ladies!  The ladies on here have give me so much support and advice and I don't think I would have got through the last couple of months without them! You can tell us if you feel sad or ask us questions or just rant if you want to!

You aren't alone sweetie and it will get better!

Much love and hugs.

Pudding
X


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## bailey434

Hi Jojomozz, all the ladies on here have been so supportive to me and I'm a relative newbie on here after having had my BFN following my first cycle about 3 weeks ago.

My clinic really didn't tell me what to expect about a bleed after the test result and I was a bit freaked out by how heavy it was, and very painful (a lot more than usual period). Like you my skin also broke out and I felt like I was at least 2 sizes bigger. I can reassure you that it has all calmed down a lot now and I'm feeling on more of an even keel although still have wobbly days along the way. It takes a while for the extra hormones to get out of your system so that's what could be causing some or most of your symptoms. I'm now waiting for my 'normal' period and then after the following one will start my next cycle.

I'm now back on the healthy eating after a few weeks of 'me' eating  and am starting back with the exercise too. Just give yourself a bit of time, you've been through a lot physically and emotionally and your body will take a while to adjust back. Have you had a review meeting with your clinic yet? I found a really useful board on things to consider to ask/talk about at your meeting that you may want to look at when you're ready http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=261901.0

Like Pudding said, hang in there and use us as sounding boards if you have any queries, or just if you want a rant to get stuff out of your head 
x


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## Stacey84

Hi All, 

Been a week or since I last posted, hope everyone is ok. Got my fingers crossed for you Tee and Tiffany.

Welcome Jojo, sorry to hear about your BFN, we all know how heartbreaking it is, so feel free to rant and vent on here anytime.

Pudding, if your SIL does break the news you think I hope she bears in mind how you will feel about it. Jealousy is a horrible emotion but we can't help it, and just need to try our best to not let it get us too down, but also know how we feel is natural in our situation, and we've got each other for support. Hope the scales give you the numbers you want on Friday.

Thanks for posting that link Bailey, I'll definitely have a proper read of that before my follow up appointment, which isn't until 1st April - a bit longer than they said it would be but never mind. I have a few things on in March so it should hopefully fly by.

Hi to everyone else I haven't mentioned. 

xx


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## Tiffanymi

Hi All thanks for your wishes and support I really appreciate it. 

Bailey, sorry to hear about your dad. It is such a difficult thing to go through, my father in law is going through the same. I know there is nothing anyone can say to help but really feel for you as I know you already are going through so much even though this on its own is heartbreaking. Thinking of you

Jojo sorry to hear about your negative and welcome. This thread helps a lot. 

Pudding, it's hard when sometimes people may move on and we are at the same point but trying to move in. If it is a pregnancy keep as strong  as possible and be supportive as you can. Through this process I realize you can really loose many people due to our own emotions. But I know how hard it is, I am therre too. 

Really tired today but just wanted to say hi

And I also wanted to see if anyone had the breakdown for the stages  after ET. Ie 5dpt implantation begins, 8dpt hcg begins. Can't find it anywhere. Mwah night guys!!


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## Teeinparis

TIFF I will PM you tomorrow as heading to bed but this is a good one I have found. http://www.nyufertilitycenter.org/ivf/embryo_transfer


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## Jojomozz

Hey,
Pudding and Bailey, thank you so much for all the useful info! It really is nice to know I am not on my own and others have experienced the lows as well. I will definitely take all on board. I really appreciate it! Thank you to Stacey and Tiffany for your kind words too. Wishing you all the very best and will try to log in at least every other day to catch up with you all. 
Big hugs 
Xx


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## Tiffanymi

Thanks Tee mwah!

Night all

Ps. No symptoms at all feel empty


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## Pudding34

Tiffany, it ain't over till the fat lady sings and I am silent! ;-)

Pudding
X


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## ayah

Hello All,

Baily Im so so sorry to hear about your dad.  I pray that the chemo is successful and not to hard on him.  The irony of life, yesterday at the hospital I saw a leaflet for donating unmilical cord blood for use in stem cell transplants.  They are taken after a healthy birth and would otherwise be thrown away.  Sadly the follical stimulating hormones and hcg we have during IUI and IVF mean we cannot donate.  So instead I hope to raise money for the  Anthony Nolan charity.  Not sure how yet.  I also thought that as those with IF issues seem to be surrounded by super fertile women, that I would mention it to every pregnant woman I know!  Though at present only five hospitals can collect cord blood.

Pudding, wow well done you on the weight loss.  But you will need to pass tha fat lady singing batton to me, as clearly you arent so fat!  It appears that I have put on 2kg in 6 weeks!  Not good .  Hope that any news from SIL is tactful.  It must be hard though when shd still not sure its what she wants.  Prehaps you can be direct in a indirect way. Email to ask how she is getting on with the clomid and that you hope she has good news  to report soon.  Empathise on how IF drugs play with the emotions, oh and when the good news comes could she text or let DH know first as you would hate the drugs to get in the way of giving a big hug. Then explain thats what you have planned to do with other SIL. And you will do same with her to save her feeling esp when on clomud.  In an email it might give her time to reflect on what you are asking.  

Tiff so hope that empty feeling goes soon.  So hard to balance hope and self preservation.  Cant imagine what a rough day that must have been.  And just to confirm this fat lady has no intention of singing either!  Hugs and positive vibes to you.

Tee how is the fatigue?


----------



## ayah

Oh accidentlyposted.  Tee would say I hope the fatigue is getting better at any other stage but not this time.  Hope you have a good early sign!  All best with it.  Just do what you can.

Jojo sorry to hear of your bfn.  This game is many times harder than you are told.  One day at a time or even one hour at a time.  Bfn are a form of grief, though it many be that only those in the IF game  can understand that.  Never feel your pain is less valid than any others.  I hope that you  journey is not muchlonger, but whatever it is your feelings are real and this is a wonderful place to get support.  All the best.  If you go back to work on monday hope all goes well.  It might take your mind off it for a while, but keep the hankies close by as once the busy day ends it might just all flood out.  But ff will be here ifneeded.

Stacey allthe best for your follow up.  Hope you get some answers and a good plan going forward.

Marshy, hope that the good days are getting more prevalant and if not, hold on in there and big hugs and  cups of tea.

Please PM me with any good news, IFRelated or other wise.  AfM high risk but ok.

Wishing you all a future of morning sickness, fatigue, nappies, sleepless nights, etc really soon.  Thank you all so so much for your support, just wish i'd come here few years ago.

Love Ayah xxx


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## KATIELEIGH07

Hello.

I haven't read through any posts yet but wondering if can join in

My names kate.. iv had my bfn today 2nd round of ivf
Today was my test day but I tested tues wed thurs and all positive. . Different tests and many tests! I was so happy. We even celebrated.  Then I was so excited for today my actual test day and all tests were negative .I didn't believe it but a blood test has confirmed.  I am devastated. Im so angry right now. Feel like iv let my partner and little boy down. Hes 6 from previous relationship and he none stop expects to be a brother. This was our last try and funded both times ourselves. I know im lucky to have a child but still hurts.  Thanks xxxx


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## Pudding34

Kate

You have had a chemical pregnancy and I know how devastating that is as I have had two of them.

It's a cruel trick that nature plays on us, we are convinced that it has worked and then it is snatched away from us.

On our last OTD I refused to believe the negative result on the clinics test and did five more HPTs.

You have not let your partner or your little boy down at all, I am guessing that you have worked so hard and sacrificed a lot for this and life has dealt you a nasty blow.

You need time to come to terms with it all and it will be hard, but it will get easier with time I promise!

There are always good days and bad days after a cycle  is unsuccessful so try to go easy on yourself and focus on the good things you have in your life, like your partner and your little boy, hopefully that plus talking to us will help you to get through it.

Anytime you feel sad or just wants hat one of us will be here I am sure of it!

Much love and hugs!

Pudding
X


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## bailey434

Hi Kate

Just popped by but didn't want to not say hello. So sorry to hear your situation. The ladies on this thread are all brilliant and very supportive so feel free to rant as we are here for you. The main thing I would say is be kind to yourself, you have been through a lot and have NOTHING to feel guilty about and you've not let anyone down, even if you do feel like that at the moment.

Take care
Bailey
x


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## KATIELEIGH07

Thank you so much . I still dont understand it but just got to get on with it I suppose.  Iv had a bath.. diet coke and soon wine ha none of these iv had in agessss. I feel so sorry for my little boy will not have a brother or sister. It breaks my heart. And I cant give partner his own child even tho he loves my little one like it.i wanted to experience pregnancy with him. We are going to try again maybe next year after wedding. Or try naturally.  Doctors cant always be right!  Xx


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## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Ayah and pudding thanks for the wishes. Lol the fat lady thing was funny!! 

Katie welcome. I am really sorry to hear that. I too have had a chemical pregnancy and you can't actually believe it. There are no words or reasons why these things happen to good people and why not so good people can have kid factories!! But try and keep yourself throughout his process, and not to go too far down. I went into a bit of a slump after my last BFN and it really was not fun. Although it is natural. Your hubby to be lives you and he will stand by you. I have seen in my marriage the strength in our relationship and have been so blessed. 

AFM, I'm reallyd sad too....no symptoms, I know the fat lady hasn't sang, but don't think I. Can take another one.  I feel nothing and it's killing me. Sometimes your body prepares your mind for what's to come. Not meaning to sound negative just so so scared.


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## KATIELEIGH07

Thanks for kind words
Af has arrived this morning.  Feel like iv lost something.  Hope can get this out my head. 
Need to restart gym and get rid of this drug belly ha. Its huge now and for no reason x


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## Pudding34

Tiffany I'm thinking of you sweetie, there is no right or wrong way to feel on the 2ww, try and stay positive Hun, I know the thought of it not working again is incomprehensible but you don't know if that is the case so you have to assume the best! X

Kate the arrival of AF is always hard after a cycle hat hasn't worked you need time to grieve and let your body and mind recover! Starting back at he gym is a great idea wish I had done that straight away after our last cycle!

AFM I've lost 3.5kgs so far but my clinic wants to review again end of next week, think it's their way of fobbing me off for a months delay, really hate that idea but it's not my call really is it, all I can do now is keep working to lose the weight and hope for the best!

Pudding
X


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## Teeinparis

Hi guys!  

Just wanted to check in.  Progesterone is making me  .  Just so positive going in and am no so   Scared.  This process is harsh. 

Love to all! 

Tina


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## Pudding34

Tee, I'm thinking of you!

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

Have a good weekend all

Pudding, that's a lot of weight you lost. Hope it works out for you.


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## Pudding34

Morning Ladies, hope you are all having a good weekend!

I'm in the car in they way to my friends baby's christening!

It's about 2.5 hours away from us so I've got way too much time to think!

I'm usually really impatient to see my friends once we are on the road but today I am hoping it goes slowly.

I'm just so scared I won't cope with the day and all my friends babies there! Or the questions as to why we aren't pregnant!

Keep your fingers crossed that I can make it through!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Good luck pudding. I know it can be difficult, try and take it one hour at. A time. I had a full baby shower going on this weekend next to where I was sitting an d just had to grin and bear it. Everyone around is preggers all Ora. Sudden even people who hit Married 8 years after me. It's so so hard. 

AFM I'm very down, I know it's not over but sometimes you just know. I just am so scared. No symptoms, no hope, and just frustrated with this whole IVF thing I just can't take it anymore. It's just so hard. Sometimes you want to scream from frustration.


----------



## bailey434

Hope that your afternoon has gone ok Pudding, I looked up your weight loss as I don't know kgs very well.....nearly 8lbs!!! That's AMAZING, well done you!    

Tee hope you are still hanging in there  

Kate, sorry to hear about AF arriving, try and be kind to yourself ok. Your tummy will go down but it just takes a little time, but exercise will help in getting some good pheromones (excuse spelling!) going  

Tiffany, sorry you're having a bad day, it's horrible trying to second guess all the time in the 2ww. I have read that some people don't get symptoms so please don't read too much into it    

AFM I'm still waiting for AF to arrive but then have to wait for another one before I can start treatment again....I am really not feeling very patient and just want to crack on and it's frustrating that nothing seems to be happening    Have taken the dogs for a long walk today and yesterday and so have worn them (and me) out in the process so hopefully we'll all sleep well tonight!  
x


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks bailey. I know some people don't get symptoms, it's just that so so many do that it's just so  Brain wrecking. Thanks for the push to the positive side  

I know the time between cycles seems like forever, just try and make it as useful  as possible getting your body ready, vitamins, meditations etc so that the next one will be a BFP....hopefully. It's so so hard to wait. It also seems a lot longer. 

Have a good Monday ladies!!


----------



## Pudding34

Morning Ladies, hope you are all having a good Monday so far!

The christening was okay, the service got me going a few times, it was all about how lucky parents are to have children and how easily people forget that and they should embrace their children and enjoy their time with them!  luckily I don't think any body noticed and I wiped away the tears during a faked coughing fit! Thank god I had my giant wedding hanky with me!

The reception was okay as well, but, the friends that know about our situation tried to keep their kiddies away from me and play it all down and the others were constantly handing me their kiddies to hold, I genuinely don't know what was worse! 

Anyway we stayed for lunch and chatted and them made our excuses, we weren't the first to leave and actually had the furthest to travel so it didn't look odd, I'm so glad we went although my friends kept asking me if I could do some event right in the middle of what I hope will be out 2ww, that's if I can lose the weight of course, and I find it much harder to lie to their faces than on email!

I had a little cry in the car and was better when we got home!

Anyway, moving on!!! My weight loss has plateaued out now, so annoying, I don't thinks will lose enough to do the cycle! I'm walking hard for an hour a day and I have stepped up my gym work but I don't see it going enough before Friday!

Tiffany, Bailey is totally right, some women don't even know they are pregnant for months because they don't have symptoms, we just look for them more because we know what is going on in there! Stay strong babes you just never know!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Dear Tiff.  

Sorry to hear about the ups and downs with your friends.  

I have two days left until otd on Wed.  So hard!  I have a nasty headache - I usually get these before my period.  So I am losing hope I have to say.  Also my stomach and boobs just don't feel as full.  Please god we want this so much and will make fab parents!    

Hasn't helped that all the things I said I would and wouldn't do this 2ww I have done!  

Anyways.  Take care all!


----------



## Pudding34

Tee, there are so many things I could say to you but they all just sound like platitudes which drive us crazy so I will just say this, it ain't over till it's over, I'm thinking of you!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Pudding, I know what it's like telling people one thing due to IVf, it's horrible not being able to be tuthful to everyone and it hurts because you are probably always so open. I too even the people I told didn't tell them my blood test Friday and was all flakey about it. It's just the things we need to do to protect ourselves sometimes, don't be hard on yourself. Sorry the ceemony was so not infertility friendly, with the comments about children....I can just imagine how hard it was. 

Tee, I am crossing fingers, toes, and anything else that will allow me to wishing you the best for Wednesday. I have no doubt you have so much love to give a child and that life sometimes is just unfair....we don't always understand it. 

So here is to hoping we have a double BFP this week.............

Thanks everyone for the support.


----------



## bailey434

Hi ladies, hope you are all having a good day today

I have a question....as you know I am waiting for AF to arrive and was told that this would happen within 4 weeks. Well tomorrow is 4 weeks since BFN but I have none of the usual symptoms that I normally get (bit bloated, sore boobs) and am wondering what everyone elses experiences have been? I am normally very regular, every 28 days, give or take 1 day and normally get symptoms in the week before AF is due. So as I have had none I am wondering if it's not going to arrive and will be delayed?

Sorry if TMI!!
x


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi Baily, mine was over two weeks late.    Drink parsley tea.  Make sure you are exercising.  I know how frustrating it is. 

Tina


----------



## bailey434

Ok thanks Tee, will get some parsley tea to add to my collection of herbal teas then  

Glad to know it's not just me then, again would have been nice for the clinic to let me know this might happen.... 
x


----------



## Teeinparis

Just get bunches of fresh parsley and immerse in water.  

Tee


----------



## bailey434

Oooh that's nice and simple too, bonus!
x


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi all - from your experience does AF come with or at the same time as otd?  Or bfn stop pesseries and then ....  

Last cycle I was spotting and got my period.


----------



## boopster1977

Hi ladies, would it be ok if I joined?

Just had 2nd ivf and not sure if chemical or early mc-blood test confirmed pg at 4 wks but then hcg levels dropped over 5 days then started bleeding 4 days later, absolutely devasted and finding it hard to cope at the moment  Its been 2yrs since 1st cycle (through no fault of our own) and have had such a rollercoaster with this one.

Don't know how to get through this

Helen xx


----------



## Pudding34

Tee
I think it varies wildly, on my first cycle I bled way before the OTD and on my second I didn't bled until three days after OTD when I stopped drugs as they asked me to wait and test again three days after OTD.

Helen
I am so sorry that you find yourself here, I've had two chemicals now and as you can see from above I had never had a BFP on OTD so I can't imagine how hard it must be for you.
Welcome to our little group, I can tell you that everybody here is so supportive and if you ever need any help or just a chance to vent please feel free!
I know getting through it again seems impossible but believe me it isn't! You can do it, us girls that have had to deal with IF are much tougher than we look! it's just going to take time and you have to be kind to yourself, there will be good days and bad days and you need to accept them as they come and not feel too frustrated when you get a bad one because they will get fewer!

Pudding
X


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## boopster1977

Thanks pudding, I thought was doing ok-2 days of no tears last week but they started again Sunday and just won't stop!

I'm so sorry about your chemicals - I hate that term don't you  Praying that this year is a good one for us all x


----------



## bailey434

Tee I started bleeding on the afternoon of my OTD so had had my last pessary in the morning and was waiting to get some more if it had been a positive result. 

Hi Helen, so sorry to hear your news   , it is such a rollercoaster after a BFN, and although it's a cliché you just need to give yourself time and not expect too much from yourself too soon. Just keep talking to us all as we know how difficult it is. 
x


----------



## Pudding34

Helen

You are right it is a horrible term, I always think it makes it sound like we imagine the positive tests!

I was very similar to you after our last cycle in dec, it was a frozen one from our first fresh in August and after the initial shock I had a few good days were I was  all up and positive and then I crashed, it was much harder than the first time, perhaps because it all rolls up on you after another negative cycle!

I don't prescribe to religion but I have to admit that when in church on Sunday at a christening I did offer up a little request, just in case anybody was listening!

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Bailey, tee - my AF came all the time writhing 4 to 6 days of OTD. This was a very painful one too. Very noisy and painful. 

Boop ster. I'm so sorry to hear. We all have trails of pain and sad stories here but are also such a great pillar of support to each other. Sorry to hear your result. Big cyber hugs  


AFM Friday OTD. I actually just want to know cause can't take it anymore. Today went out and relaxed so feel a little less manic than previously. 

Tee thinking of you XOXO


----------



## boopster1977

Thanks for the welcome ladies  

Pudding-I think the 1st time you are naive and so optimistic and full of hope (at least I was) and when that doesn't work and you know what to expect it keeps getting harder to pull yourself together afterwards.

Thank Bailey-think I have been expecting too much of myself, df doesn't understand either and thinks I should be passed all the tears but he deals with things differently and doesn't have depression like I do.

Tiffany-thanks for the cyber hugs  I've got everything crossed that you get your bfp Friday, the 2ww is a killer and so hard not to think about it all of the time-you are doing so well not to have tested.  Hope you are doing something nice today to take your mind off it.

Afm-going to try and get out of bed today-at least for a wash!! Have appointment with cbt coach this afternoon, not that she'll be of much use.

Hope everyone has a good day 

Helen x


----------



## bailey434

Hi Helen, I was like you and very optimistic with my first try, I'm doing it on my own and naively thought that of course it would work the first time! I suppose it just shows how much we want it!

Don't let anyone make you feel that you should 'be over it' or 'pull yourself together' etc etc, it is such a personal thing and although the men are involved and hopefully very involved, they don't actually have to go through it physically. I would ask a close friend who you can trust if they can just be a sounding post every now and then, just so you can have a rant and get it out. I have a friend who is great like that and just lets me go and then gives me a hug at the end as she knows that deep down she can't make it right but just by being there for me she is helping me through this horrible stage.

It's good that you are doing CBT even if you don't think/feel it's doing much I'm sure it will help. Do you have access to a counsellor as part of your treatment? I did and went to see her after my BFN and found that eventhough nothing had changed by the end of the session that I felt a lot calmer and she understood a lot of my feelings more so than family can as sometimes they are too involved.

The thing that helped me was getting outside in the fresh air, not that I felt like doing it mind, but once I was out it gave me a chance to try and sort through things in my head. A bit of bracing wind can sometimes snap you out from under the little grey cloud that I felt was hovering over me, even if it's just for a while.

Take care and hope you have a good day  
x


----------



## Teeinparis

Another BFN here!


----------



## bailey434

Oh no Tee, I'm so so sorry      
xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Oh Tee  , Im so sorry to hear that.


----------



## Teeinparis

Going to ban the internet for a long while.  Good luck to everyone!


----------



## bailey434

Take care Tee, come back when you feel ready as we are all here for you  
xx


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## Teeinparis

Pudding - where did you do immune testing?


----------



## Tiffanymi

Understandable Tee. We are here for you if you need us. I know there are no words we can say to help but just know that we are thinking of you. All the best Tee


----------



## Pudding34

Tee

I'm so very sorry you got the bfn.

I did my immune tests at the Lister Clinic in London.

Totally understand the internet hiatus but if you do need us at anytime you know we are all here for you as you have been for us!

Much love and cyber hugs.

Pudding
X


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## Teeinparis

Pudding 

Thanks so much - would you recommend lister and how much were the tests? 

Tina - a friend recommended Dr shah era at new life.


----------



## ayah

Tee really sorry it a bfn.  Thoughrs and hugs are with you.  If there were words or deeds that could ease the pain i would do them, Take care.

To all the new ladies here so sorry for your losses too.  Puddings possey is a great place for support and I miss our chats.  Hope little n big puppy keeping you busy Pudding.

Ayah xxx


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## Pudding34

Tee I would definitely recommend the lister they were efficient and helpful and I really like our consultant there !

The tests we had which were karotyping for DH and NK cells, thrombophillia & thyroid for me were about £1,500.00 as well as initial consult and follow up, of course you may need more or less tests so difficult to compare but it does give you a ball park! 

Ayah the puppies are definitely keeping me on my toes, I hope all is going well with you! 

Pudding 
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Who was your consultant?  You got in quickly no?


----------



## Pudding34

We saw James Nicopoullos and I can't recommend him more highly, we were lucky to get an appointment really quickly it might be the same for you if you give them a call! 

I won't say I hope you feel better today as I know you don't but I hope that you are doing okay! 

Lots of love and hugs to you!

Pudding
X


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## Pudding34

Afternoon Ladies!

Does anybody know anything about DNA Fragmentation ?

Pudding
X


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## Teeinparis

We had this done for my husbands sperm.  Expensive but ours was fine.


----------



## Pudding34

Thanks for replying Tee how much did you pay for it?

When you had it done did they tell you if there were any options if it was high ?

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

We were referred to a virologist.  (Penis guy). He had us get it done.  It was about 900 euros but our social covered most of it I believe.  Not sure about options.


----------



## Teeinparis

If your eggs have fertilised I don't think you have an issue.


----------



## Pudding34

The urologist we saw today seemed to think that defective sperm will still create an embryo which may even implant but won't last!

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

Hi guys. I am testing tomorrow morning at the clinic. So so scared. Hoping and preying that I get a break even for once. Trying to be positive even though no symptoms etc but it's hard as it feels BFN. 

Have a good night


----------



## Pudding34

Tiffany -- I'm thinking of you and everything will remain crossed for you for tomorrow!

Today has been a hard day, yet again we found out that there was no reason for a problem, no identifiable reason for DHs low count and basically sent away from consultant with no more than we arrived with!

He dropped the donor sperm bomb on us if DNA Fragmentation is high and I can't get my head around it, that sounds feeble doesn't it but I just can't!

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

Thanks pudding. Sorry to hear that. The most frustrating thing is there are never freaking answers!!!!

Sorry to hear about the sperm. Hoping the DNA frag hoes well. 

I don't know about you but I just have no more energy left anymore for this. It's just too too much. It saps you emotionally, physically, financially and it robs you if your family. Too much to handle. 

Sorry feeling a little EMO


----------



## Pudding34

This is going to sound really silly but I feel really angry after today.

I know I am the kind of person who needs answers to everything I always have been and today really hit me hard, nothing they can see to improve it so perhaps think of donor sperm, it's completely thrown me it's like saying just give up, I'm just so short tempered and angry at the whole situation!

Sorry to just vent  most of it doesn't make any sense to me so it must sound like rambling to you all!

Pudding
X


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## Pudding34

Tiffany our posts have crossed, I feel exactly the same as you, it's like you read my mind, and then there are those people who look at each other and  get pregnant over and over again!

I feel like I cope as best as I can a lot of the time and then you just get one too many slaps around the face and it knocks you off your feet.

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

I know how you feel pudding. Like you are screaming and frustrated inside but it doesn't help anything as you have no control. 

Maybe get a second opinion? I'm not sure. I know how IOU feel as my next step is donor eggs and you really do feel a loss. Still go this day, I don't know what has gone wrong with my IVFs. And is it implantation or eggs. 

Sorry to be negative back, I think we both having a moment today. 

Try and take it one step at a. Time and hopefully there will be some answers somewhere. Wish you all the best x


----------



## bailey434

Hi all

Tiff best of luck for tomorrow, have got everything crossed for you  

Sorry that you're having a bad time Pudding, the most frustrating bit about this whole process is that you don't seem to get answers. I'm like you and need to understand WHY something hasn't worked and WHAT you can do to make it better. I'm sure I speak for all of us that we would try literally anything to help    Do you have access to a counsellor to talk about possibly using a donor (when/if you feel ready to explore that)? There are obviously a lot of questions that come out of that decision. Are they implying that if you used DS that you would have a better chance?

Thinking about you Tee, hope you are being kind to yourself 
xx


----------



## ayah

Tiffany all best for tommorow.

Pudding you diffinanty werent ramblng.  Must have been such a shock.  The dream is your egg and sperm, so if that becomes unlikely it like you being told you as a couple cant have kids.  Makes no one a failour though!  Cant imagine how hard it must for those of you to be told you ndedDE or DS.  

Take care all

Ayah xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks bailey and ayah. Nerves!!!!


----------



## marshey3

Hiya Ladies,

Sorry been absent but works been crazy busy and i've been doing overtime!!!

Tee sorry to hear of your bfn. 

Tiff I have everything crossed for you. xx

Pudding- Hugs to you at the moment too, hope your feeling ok today.

Sorry to people i've missed, i will catch up.

OH and i are going to our friends for the weekend, i'm so excited as we've not been anywhere for ages as IVF has taken over our life!!
IVF really is so hard, i just dont stop thinking about it anymore, i'm sure my OH doesnt wish it was easy for us ladies to switch off.

Can i ask, at the moment i have really gone off sex, i love my OH dearly but when he starts to get frisky i'mjust not interested hopefully it will change and might be just as back to work now, i can remember what it was like pre ivf etc!!!

Hope you all have a good weekend and i will catch up on sunday.

xxxxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

I got a BFN AND WAS REALLY REALLY TORN APART. mY 5TH FAILED ivf, ITS JUST NOT FAIR. i TEARED UP.

mY EGG QUALITY is very very low....

I am very sad but what can I do?

Life is so unfair.


----------



## Pudding34

Oh Tiffany, my heart breaks for you.

Its not fair in any way and it gets harder and harder to understand!

I truly wish there was something that I could say or do to comfort you but i know there isnt.

The only thing i can say is I am here if you want to talk, vent, rant or cry so if you need it just let me know!

Cyber hugs

Pudding
x


----------



## bailey434

I'm so so sorry Tiffany    

I know there's nothing we can say that will make it better, but know that we are here for you.

Did they say that about the egg quality?
xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks pudding and bailey. My AMH low. Egg quality not good. Running out eggs and quality  Body 10 years older in terms of eggs. I aI am 34 but I have a low AMH. 

I just do t know if I have the energy anymore. I am so sick of this. The emotions are too much. And I don't know if I will ever have kids. Sadly true. I have become one of thoese statistic,so that just get a higher IVF count. I never thought I would be and it's heart breaking. 

On another level speaking to my doc helped. He said my eggs I tried everything. That this cycle coming up, they can see if they can take my natural egg and do Retrieval and ET without meds. On my natural eggs. He said I have been through way too much for him yo do this if he feels my eggs aren't strong enlighten but he will scan and see. He said a rare number of people loose egg quality due to sims and havering your natural egg in May help. Again he says I may not be able yo do this if my natural egg isn't stong. Then I accepted that my next step is donor. I am ok with it now. A loss if seeing myself in my child physically. But nonetheless, I need this tow work. So I'm locating a donor agency and seeing from there. Will also try the natural thing if my eggs r ok until I get donor. As I can only. Do donor in 4 months due ti time lapse. 

The doc recomended not taking siblings DE. Firstly they are less string and second slit of siblings have fall outs later and last it complicated double sisters etc. 

So I am sad, depressed, and heartbroken...but hopeful for the next step. The emotions are too much. And I don't know if I will ever have kids. Sadly true. I have become one of thoese statistic,so that just get a higher IVF count. I never thought I would be and it's heart breaking. 

On another level speaking to my doc helped. He said my eggs I tried everything. That this cycle coming up, they can see if they can take my natural egg and do Retrieval and ET without meds. On my natural eggs. He said I have been through way too much for him yo do this if he feels my eggs aren't strong enlighten but he will scan and see. He said a rare number of people loose egg quality due to sims and havering your natural egg in May help. Again he says I may not be able yo do this if my natural egg isn't stong. Then I accepted that my next step is donor. I am ok with it now. A loss if seeing myself in my child physically. But nonetheless, I need this tow work. So I'm locating a donor agency and seeing from there. Will also try the natural thing if my eggs r ok until I get donor. As I can only. Do donor in 4 months due ti time lapse. 

The doc recomended not taking siblings DE. Firstly they are less string and second slit of siblings have fall outs later and last it complicated double sisters etc. 

So I am sad, depressed, and heartbroken...but hopeful for the next step.


----------



## bailey434

Your post is so honest and true Tiffany and unfortunately we know how horrible it all feels  

It sounds like you discussed a lot in your meeting, which hopefully helped in some way? I wanted to ask so many questions at my BFN and couldn't as had to wait for my consultant meeting later on (and the lady who told me my results shouldn't be anywhere near anyone going through this kind of treatment anyway as she had zero empathy skills!)

I may be in a different place to others as am already using donor sperm so have really thought about if I would be ok with donor egg already. Like you I would obviously go for own eggs but if I had to would go for donor as personally I would feel they were mine as I would have carried them. You obviously have a lot of thoughts going around your head at the moment and I hope you manage to sort through them all gradually.

And please don't think of yourself as a statistic, you are amazingly strong to go through all this  
xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks bailey for your insights it helps to get another perspective. My BFN was taken a lot better as the doctor actually took the time to see me then and there and explain what happened and the next steps. Makes such a difference. Last clinic I waited a month it was as if the doc needed me to heal before seeing him. I at least am in good hands. I'm sure you understand that DE mixed emotions but I think I have tried everything and left no door unopened. So ready.

What do u think about that natural eff suggestion he had. That some people eggs are worse with Simms and he may be able to take a natural egg of mine out.


----------



## Teeinparis

TIFF try the natural egg while you wait for DE - nothing to lose.


----------



## Tiffanymi

I agree thanks T


----------



## bailey434

Yeah I'd go for the natural egg while you wait for a DE as then you will know in your heart that you really have tried everything before looking at DE and won't be thinking 'I wish I'd tried for a last time just in case'

Review meeting straight after would definitely have helped me as I felt a bit abandoned with all these questions and no-one to ask them too. Glad it helped


----------



## Abijay

Hi All. Sorry to hear your new Tiffany.

I have a quick question that I posted in the BFN veteran board (I have had 2 CP (from IVF) and 2 MC (Natural) so am starting to feel like a veteran). But I thought you ladies might have some insight.

So, on this cycle of natural FET, I had my BFP on Wednesday then started bleeding heavily on Wednesday night and have continued to bleed period-like since then (it's now saturday). I am planning a fun night out with the girls tonight to cheer myself up so thought I'd test this morning to be sure it's OK to drink and found that I still have a strong BFP (on a cheapy Boots tester) - the line isnt as dark as the control but it's clearly visible, as dark or darker than it was on wednesday. HOw long does it take for the hpg to show up negative after a CP?

Confused
Abi


----------



## Pudding34

Abijay

I am so sorry to hear of your CPs and MCs I think it varies wildly in everybody.

On my first cycle I had bleeding on day 5 and a positive on day 7 this then went to negative by OTD, on my second cycle I had no bleeding, a positive on day 8 and negative by OTD.

It's very hard to say if you have actually had a CP you may just have had a bleed.

I would imagine, and I am I no way an expert so please do not rely I anything I say it is just my experiences and opinions I am giving you, if you have had a CP the level would at least have started to drop by now.

I would strongly suggest that you contact your clinic as soon as possible to see what they say.

I wish you the est of luck and hope that it isn't a CP.

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi Abijay I think the best way is to do a blood test. This will definitely show up. My blood test they were able to show BFP but CP. HPTs too unreliable at this stage for CP. I think.  

Today I went out, I needed to god a birthday. I feel very empty and down. Today has been so hard. You get yo a stage where the picture of having a child just doesn't seem likely or real, as if it will never happen. Sorry to be so morbid, just really hurting a lot.


----------



## boopster1977

Hi ladies-haven't been on here for a bit, just can't seem to shake this black cloud and spending most of the day in bed just staring into nothing thinking of what could have been.

Anyway-I just wanted to say I'm very sorry to hear about teeinparis and Tiffany's bfns   this rollercoaster is just so cruel at times xx

Teeinparis-I had immune tests done through dr g at the FGA who treats immunes alongside other clinics, it cost us about £1800 for most of the tests ( didn't have dqa or lad because had never been pregnant so dr g didn't see point at the time) if you want more info just pm me.

Sending you both big hugs. 

Helen xx


----------



## Pudding34

Tiffany,you are not being morbid, in fact you are only saying what I am thinking a lot of the time!

I'm so sorry you are feeling down, I wish there was something I could say or do to help  but I know there isn't, just know I am here for you if you need to talk!

Boopster, the same applies to you, I am here if you need to talk,I know the not wanting to get out of bed feeling, it just seems so much easier doesn't it! We have to fight it thought do wish somebody had chased it out of me! I'm here if you need any geeing up!

Pudding
X


----------



## Pudding34

I just sent send on my last post and walked away from my ipad but I want you all to know that if there was a way to give you a real hug through here I would  sounds silly I know but that is show I feel!

Pudding
X


----------



## boopster1977

Thanks pudding  

Well I'm up and about before lunchtime today which is a good start!

Is anyone doing anything nice today? 

Helen xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks pudding we all need sometimes TLC

Boopster glad u feel a lil better as much as can be. 

It really does helping having this chat group thanks pudding for setting it up!!


----------



## Pudding34

Afternoon Ladies!

Boopster I'm so very glad that you found the strength to be "up and at it" today! What are you going to do? How is the weather where you are?

Tiffany, thank you so much for your kind words I sometimes feel so redundant and to know that I am giving to you all what you give to me means a lot!

SIL is visiting and last night she told me that she can't talk to me about her fertility journey, for those of you that don't know she is now on clomid, because what we are going through and have been through is so much worse and I won't want to hear it! I can honestly say that that cut me like a knife!

SIL and I have had a bumpy relationship in the past, but for anybody to think I would be anything but companionate about IF is an insult to who i am as a person!

I want to support her but if she won't let me I can't!

It breaks my heart to know that she is so close yet so far from me!

Infertility is infertility it's not a competition and we should be able to support each other, no?

In the past SIL has always said she didn't want children, I always said that was rubbish and she was covering up the fact that she thought her OH didn't want more kids, as she has reached a certain age she talked to him and they are trying and it isn't working out, I know she wants it and I know how that feels but god she is hard to relate to sometimes!

Okay I'm gonna stop ranting now!

Have a lovely sunday everybody!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Any of you had a hysterscopy?  I asked my fe about uterus problems because of 4 good 2dt not taking.  He said nothing was on my hysto or ultrasound, but that we can do one of these.  I feel really uneasy about it.  If nothing has shown up then why bother right?  But could ivf cause something?  He would notice cysts on my scans for follicles and when implanting right? 

What is recovery time?  I think I may be better getting my weight down at least 10kls as with ivf the exercise hasn't been happening and my diet has been all over.  Suggestions?


----------



## Littlemissv

Hi ladies,

After my first IVF cycle I got a bfn this morning.

Feel like such a failure....

Just popped out as it is such a glorious day and had to come back... Parks filled with families and I just look at them with a mixture of anger that they get what I can't get and sadness that I may never ever be in their shoes. 
I turn 40 later this year and feel I'm running out of time.....
Does it get better??


----------



## bailey434

Hi Littlemissy

So sorry to hear about your BFN but PLEASE don't think you are a failure ever!! This is such a hard process to go through and so much is out of our control. I am in the same place as you having had a negative first cycle and 4 weeks later I am feeling stronger and ready to attack the next cycle. My clinic, and maybe yours, told me that the first cycle is really a learning curve for them to see how you respond to the drugs etc so again, nothing is your fault.

Keep talking to us here as we know exactly how you are feeling     
x


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Pudding, sorry about SIL, seems like there are some unresolved issues - maybe one sided from her to you. Perhaps she is too proud to admit that you are in the same boat and maybe you can open the lines of communication with her. You may find underneath she is very insecure and depressed and hiding this behind hurtful words. I hope you work it out as no better support than someone close to you going through the same thing. I know no one going through it as eveyone here is hush hush about IF.  

Tee, I am not sure if this is the same. I had a hysterectopy they found out while doing this that my uterus something or other was open and that if they didn't find this, I would always have miscarriages. So thank goodness they found and fixed it. It wasn't a big procedure at all and took a day to feel ok. If it is the same. However, I have had major endometriosis operations and these are hectic so I may be comparing it to this. I think it is worth seeing what's going on. T, I did the xcercise but over last 8 months just followed a very healthy diet. Pinged out only on targeted days. I would recommend seeing a dietician once of a plan and then sticking to it no matter how hard. Also cutting alcohol, fizzy drinks, and lots water helps a lot. 

Little miss, I'm so sorry to hear This. Everyone on this site have been through so much and it is a great support system here. Try and think of the next one and what you can do differently and don't give up. It's a hard road, but hopefully a light at the end for all of us. 

AFM, today has been hard. I feel a great sense of loss and very depressed tbh that the next step is DEs. I need to accept that before I can move on but at the moment, am feeling tender. At work tomorrow will have to pretend everything is ok. And it is just exhausting.


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi gusts

Quick question. I forgot. How long does it take to get your period after blood tests and stopping tablets? And also is that first bleed a real period ie. can you produce natural eggs on this one?


----------



## bailey434

hi Tiffany, sorry you are having a bad day  

With me I started bleeding on the afternoon of my BFN and it lasted about 4 days. I don't think it is classed as a real period from what I understand. I'm still waiting for mine to show up 4.5 weeks later but in the last day have had a 'feeling' that it's on its way. My consultant is making me wait for another period before I can start down regging again as she said that the egg quality is generally poorer on the first proper period after a cycle as your body is still recovering. Annoying but I suppose worth it in the end and as I didn't get any frosties last time need the best quality ones next time to hopefully have some suitable to freeze too. Hope that helps. I've been told to drink parsley tea (think it was Tee who recommended) it as it can help regulate periods a bit. Just get a flat leaved parsley plant from the supermarket and put about a tablespoon of leaves (chopped) in a mug and leave to stew for a bit. Not great tasting but I added a little honey to help 

Hope work goes ok tomorrow, maybe in some ways it may help getting back into a routine, but I know what you mean about having to 'act normal' and like you are not going through an upsetting time.
x


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks Bailey. I already feel the ripping of the stomach lining. I really dislike the after effects of IVF AF. Always feel the first period is more painful Han IVF. Have a great week!!!!


----------



## Teeinparis

TIFF, 

Mine started lightly spotting the day of and then the day after and is still going ... Not painful like last time though.  Although the tampons are not feeling good.  Poked too much there maybe?


----------



## Stacey84

Hi all, just popping on to say a quick hi. Sorry to those who have had a bad week, and hi to the new comers, I'm sorry you find yourself on this thread, but it really is helpful, I don't think I would have got through the last few weeks as well without this site. Sorry I don't have time for a long post, just wanted to say hi and thinking of you all. I'm just counting down the days til my follow up appointment (1st April) and hope they don't make me wait too long to start again.

Take care everyone

xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks T. Mine came on qui today. Very heavy  and very very painful, I always forget this period is more painful than anything in the IVF process. Stacey, good luck for the appointment. That wait is so traumatic as you want answers now. I am lucky I got mine from this clinic then and there. It made a true difference. 

Work was ok, took my mind off things....just weird to have yo pretend all is ok and that nothing is going on in your life!!!!

Going to say goodnight from one with a painful period....

Last 2 days was very depressed. So so down. As now grieving my eggs and tying to accept that DEs is my next stage. Set appointment with agency. Need to understand process first......

Have a good week!!


----------



## emz2402

Hi Ladies, sorry I haven't been on a while just back from a holiday. Been catching up on the posts and so much seems to have happened the past few weeks. So sorry for all the BFNs, I would love to see some happy news on here to give us all hope!!

Had my follow up appointment this week, didn't tell me any thing I didn't already know, we don't start down red till the 26th May which is a long wait but to be honest I think me and the OH need the break. The toll it has taken on our relationship has been immense and I feel like at the moment we are in danger of splitting - has anyone else felt like this? Part of me doesn't want it to happen but another part of me would feel slightly relieved. Just having a hard time of it at the moment.

And 4th pregnancy announced at work this week!!

Hope you're all having a good week xxx


----------



## ayah

Just a quick hi to all, hooe you all holding up.

Emz just wanted to say yes we very much have been through, well still going through troubles.  It such a hard thing to go through and the drugs  have a profound affect on how we feel and even behave,  it so hard to be rational or calm at times. Everything is a big deal.  So hard for DH to get that.  Have you had councelling together?  It might help you both and especially him to understand what you are both going through.

Time out may help to.  Time to remember who you both are, why you are together and why you wanted to start a family.  You both must have seen something special in each other to set off on thejourney together.  And who knows prehaps a little undercover fun just for the pleasure of it!  No cycle watching.  Really hope its the last time you get to enjoy being a couple before life is turned upside down with a/some little beauties, to keep you doe eyed and occupied!

And may you all be doe eyed and busy with little beauties too.

Best wishes to you all


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi Emz. 
I have been lucky that IVF have brought us closer together but the more BFNs the more irratable you get with each other unintentionally. 

I do think though that IVF tears people apart but don't let it. Marriage is such a sacred thing and there are always ups and downs. Speak to him and choose not to let this process get in the way. I agree with ayah to try counselling. But try everything to maintain it if you can and if you still love each other. We are already robbed of kids, don't let the this process interfere. I know easier said than done but do everything it takes, date nights, a break from IVF, a holiday on an island, etc...

Most importantly sometimes we need to heal ourselves individually before we can fully be invested in the happiness of another.

I don't know your situation it could be different to what I think but if it is IVF that's only interfering then do all in your power to not let it. It's taken our souls as is it. 

But you both need to communicate about your feelings and understand and support each other...it takes 2. 

Good luck though xxxx


----------



## emz2402

Thanks Ayah and Tiffany, 

I know that if we can get through IVF together we can get through anything! Its certainly a true test of whether you are meant to be together, I question how many relationships could survive if everyone had to go through this level of stress.

Feeling a bit better today, I think it helps that the sun is shining, I'm looking forward to the summer. I quite often bottle my true feelings up so going to have a sit down with the DH tonight and have a good heart to heart as I think lately we've both been tiptoeing around each other.

Hope everyone is having a good day xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

good luck emz


----------



## ayah

Emz hope all goes well tonight, but dont be disheartened if not.  With so much to express and say, you both may need time to take it all in.  That and read between the lines.  It can be had to find the right words to accuratly say how we feel, and so easy to use inaccurte words.  You may both need time to diguest it all.

Keep hugging though.  Never underestimate the power of a big hug.  Men oftrn dont get it, but touch is a powerful thing, so keep up the hugs, they say more tham words ever can.

All best 

Ayah xxx


----------



## smallbutmighty

Hello all,

Sad to say I'm joining you (not enjoying moving further down the forum board!). I got my negative yesterday after ringing the hospital and asking them why they want me to test on Sat when everyone else who did ETs on the 27th had already tested. Apparently that was a clerical error. Not very inspiring.

Had a better round than last time (when we didn't even make it through to fertilisation), but one Q I'd love to ask you all... are the success rates for antagonist v. long protocol usually any different? I was originally due to do the latter but because they couldn't prescribe me a drug which wouldn't bring on migraine (such as Synarel) they moved me to antagonist instead and told me it didn't matter - if it doesn't matter, why do clinics put people on long as default?

Nerdy stuff aside, I did have a glass of wine last night and I'm going to be tucking into sushi, liver, cured meats,  etc. over the next week. 

Really frustrating though isn't it? I did have a little moment last night and demand "Why us?" into my wine glass. Worst bit was telling hubby, he looked absolutely gutted.


----------



## Pudding34

Smallbutmighty, welcome to our small and not always so merry band!

I'm so sorry to hear you got a BFN, I wish there was more I could say than just the word sorry but please know that it is a heartfelt feeling for you even though I have never spoken to you before!

This awful "journey" ("journey" is in inverted commas because I hate that term so xfactor/icedancing/apprentice naff!) makes us all so very sensitive to others plight in a way that people who find it so easy to fall pregnant will never feel so we are all connected by the dreaded BFN!

Wow that was deep huh, I'm usually not that sappy I promise!

In answer to your question I have only done long protocol so I can't offer any pearls of wisdom hopefully one of the lovely ladies on here will have some ideas!

I can safely say that it is the ladies  on here who have got me through the last couple of months, listening to me rant and offering me sympathy when I've been sad and a kick up the what's it when I have been feeling sorry for myself! I know they will do the same for you!

Sounds like you have done what I did after the BFNs a drink and some naughty foods which is a good idea you need a little of what you fancy and how you get through your grief,because it is grief my love no matter what anybody else may think about BFNs, is entirely up to you and only you know what will get you through!

I didn't really put a time limit on it and wish I had now as I am a weeny bit heavy!

Anyway ladies DH and I have decided that the more weight I can lose the more chance the next cycle stands of working so I took the really hard decision earlier this week to push our cycle for a month, my head understands the rationale but my heart was broken when I finally told the clinic what we have decided to do, why does my heart not listen to my head? Damn you heart, damn you!

So this next month I'm gonna work out hard and keep dieting and lose loads of weight, in three weeks I have lost 5kgs which I am really happy about just hope I can lose a bit more than that over the next 4 weeks! Keep your fingers crossed for me!

Emz how did things go with your DH? 

It's really hard on our relationships isn't it? The pressure we feel means we do what most people do under stress and take it out on those closest to us, plus guys don't do the sensible thing and talk, like we do to our friends or family or on here, they mostly just bottle it all up and it's so frustrating!

The sun has been shining here today and it has given me a lovely boost of energy and positivity that I want to share with you all! Wow I really am sappy today huh!  

Lots of love to you all Ladies!

Pudding
X


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## bailey434

Hi Smallbutmighty, sorry to hear about your BFN, I echo what Pudding has said about the ladies on this board being fantastic and knowing how you may be feeling. My treatment has only involved long protocol so I can't comment sorry but I'm sure there will be someone on here who has experience that could help.

5kgs is FANTASTIC Pudding, well done!   I'm sure it was a really hard decision to delay but if you will be healthier then it will be for the best I'm sure. 

My AF finally arrived so that's good but I've still got to wait for the next one for it to count as Day 1 and I'm so impatient!!  

x


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all
Small mighty. I had long and short protocol, excuse my language but both results did jack sh$t for me. Still 5 failed IVFs and no hope . Use us to lean on. We are all wounded and still trying to be hopeful. Sorry that you are going through this

Pudding, rational decision. Sometimes patience is a virtue. Hoping this will pay off buoy have done so well

Emz hope all is going ok with hubby 

Belief, I. Know how when u are in between cycles, 1 week feels like 1 year. 

AFM: got recognized at work and won some money and trophy. But all going towards my last BFN. Still nice to have got recognition for hard work. Set counsellor appointment and agency for DE apt. Feeling less anxious about DEs. Remember my doc said I can do a natural cycle and see if I can take my own eggs Bon Monday he will look at my eggs and see if he can take them out without meds. 

Ps. Went out with hubby. I too turn to wine with BFN and wine I did tonight  onky good thing about the geartbreak


----------



## Littlemissv

Just made a right   of myself at work....

Its not even been a week yet since my bfn and on the whole I am doing OK... yesterday someone at work told me they were 14 weeks pregnant and I even managed the customary "oh - thats lovely news" before I ran away and escaped outside for a little cry.
But today - a colleague who has also been through IVF turned up with their 2 month year old and I just lost it.  I just freaked.
I saw her standing there with the car seat and i couldn't cope. I just grabbed my bag and ran - sobbing from the building. I just had to get away...

Whats awful is I really really really like this lady - i know the journey she has been through so know how precious her little bundle is - but the second i saw her all i could think was WHY HER NOT ME?? and the anger was bubbling inside me.

I stayed away until she had gone... but am now left feeling like a prize cowbag as well as the pain of my failure coming right back to the surface.

This really is the rollercoaster that keeps on giving isnt it?

Sorry for my rant..

L


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## Tiffanymi

Little miss don't be hard on yourself it is natural to feel that way and to not  e a Cow. We don't mean we wish bad on others it just hurts it's not us. Hope weekend is better for u xxx


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## Pudding34

Little miss

I think we all have those meltdown moments at onetime or another, the beauty of it is that even if people noticed, and or cared, you can blame it on women's things! people never ask questions then! Besides it always seem s so much worse to us then to other people!

You are definitely to a cowbag! You are a woman with needs that at this time are not yet being met and you need to vent that frustration you are feeling in some way!

AFM I'm feeling a bit bereft after delaying the cycle,I know why we did it and for good reasons but as usual my heart still hasn't caught up with my head!

Pudding
X


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## ayah

Hi ladies,

Pudding you really do inspire me.  5kg in three weeks is amazing.  Keep it going!

Little miss.  As you can see from my history I am one of those who for some reason tx has work.  But after last ivf for sibling i lost the plot and came here.  My bf from school and cousin had babys at end of year, and i avioded seeing them or evenin texting as really could not face their happiness.  And was scared that i might run from there homes in tears! Your reaction is normal and understandable. Lets face it if i can feel that way then your reaction is far more understandable.

As for your work friend, i am sure she would understand too.  She may even feel guilty that she had not forwarded you in hindsight.  I got back to work after 3.5 months sick last week.  I had a miricle bfp whilst off and needed to let people know due to nature of work.  I knew 1 girl trying so wanted to see how she getting on and forwarn her the anoucement, but she was not in..  another girl i know planned to start trying this summer, so i didnt warn her.  She'd had a 2nd early mc2 days before my news. I feel so guilty.  I was not to know, but still could have checked the waters first,  

So in short dont feel bad.  You are not a cowbag in way, but hurting.  Often ask myself why me and not any of you yet?  It non of it makes sence.

To all here       .  Still  praying for your miricles too.

Ayah xxx


----------



## Teeinparis

Little miss - I noticed you were near Oxford.  Message me for the name of a TCM - he does herbs.  I think if when in Oxford I would've stuck with him - upped my exercise, and actually taken my husband as well (as though just me) I think it would happen naturally.  PM me if you want his details.


----------



## Tiffanymi

Have donor egg agency appointment this week. Feels so daunting  and scary. Like shopping for genes.


----------



## bailey434

Hi Tiffany, that's good news that you've got a quick appointment  

I'm sure it's daunting but I would look at it as what the end of the journey could look like....  
x


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks bailey. It is so strange because over the last 2 weeks I have been mourning my eggs almost grieving. But I know my eggs are not good and this is the next step. I have booked the appointment at end of day so I don't need to go back to work. Will be very strange appointment but I know at the end I have a much better chance at having a child and that is the most important thing. I read there is a high risk with do nor eggs of getting preeclampsia, scary stuff!!

Is anyone considering or close to using DEs or has anyone used this?


----------



## bailey434

I think what I've read is that there is a higher risk if you have multiple embryos put back in using DE but not sure if with a single one? I'm sure they would monitor you closer though if that is the case (hopefully!)

One of the many questions that I'm sure you have on the list to ask at your appointment! Good idea about not going back to work after, you'll probably have so much in your head that work wouldn't be a great idea ;-)
x


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks bailey xxxx


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## Stacey84

Good evening Ladies, 

I hope your appointment goes well Tiffany. I know it may not be the ideal way, but it will be worth it if it gets you BFP. 

It must have been a hard decision for you Pudding, but at least it gives you a bit longer to prepare yourself, physically and mentally, for the next shot.

Littlemissv, I think I would have reacted in the exact same way if I had been in that situation. Don't beat yourself up about it, going through everything that we are totally messes with your head, and unless you have been/going through it, then people have no idea what it's like.

AFM, had a bit of a bad week, I feel like everywhere I turn someone is either announcing they are pregnant or are giving birth. in the space of a week, 2 people I know have had a baby, and 2 others have announced they are expecting. Of course I am happy for them but internally I'm screaming when is it my turn?! I found out about the latest one at lunchtime today and since then I've just felt down. I wanted to cry and scream but in an open office didn't think it was the best idea! Work is quite stressful too, and I'm getting impatient waiting for my follow up appointment.... sorry for the rant, I just needed to get it out. I have good friends but don't feel I can tell them how I really feel as none of them have been through this. I don't think they would understand the jealousy and the wanting and the frustration. 

I have everything crossed for us all ladies, it's got to be our turn soon

xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi Stacey  thanks for the message. I understand  how it feels. That screaming inside I know too well. I guess so sometimes we need to act like we are on a stage and pretend all is ok even though we are hurting

Today was jnteresting. I went to doc as he said my last resort is to check my natural egg and see If it will perhaps be ok to try. He said in a rare case ivf medication is not for everyone and that so stones not doing Simms but taking so eonea natural egg in rare cases works. This is a last resort before donor eggs. Only thing is you still pay over half of the ivf cost. This is due to you still getting trigger Meds and the eggs in a lab. I stl owe on my credit card for my last ivf and this will be  nearly the cost of another ivf. But at same time my last shot at natural eggs. 😢😢so very jnsure if what to do next. Either do this for piece if mind at a last chance before DEs, knowing the chance is minimal but paying a fortune or not doing it and always wondering.  I must do it retrieval lb Friday as it is 8 day I only have 2 eggs as natural eggs. Any thoughts


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi Tiffany, 

I would personally do it.  I know the money is great but ....  I think it is too bad they all don't try a natural cycle first.  

Tee


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks tee. I have decided to give It a shot. I wonder why they don't suggest this first before Meds ivf.


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi Tiff.

I agree, I don't know why they don't do it first either.  Good luck - I have a good feeling for you.  Also do some acupuncture if you can find someone good.  

Take care and do text or email direct as am not checking this that often. 

Tee


----------



## Tiffanymi

thanks tee


I am going to sound negative - and Im sorry!!!  but my donor egg agency cancelled the appointment today. Im so upset - seems like nothing i do these days comes through. Even something as simple as a donor egg agency appointment. I am always down out of luck no matter what. I know this is a small thing - just years of bad luck in every respect to do with ttc....

feeling sad  

either way i went to clinic - am going ahead with natural egg. trigger today and retrieval friday (with natural though they said eggs could release themselves before so i may not actually be able to do it) - but lets see.....

sorry for venting - just frustrated in general with so so much!!!!


----------



## Pudding34

Oh Tiffany, its just one thing after another isnt it, you climb one mountain and find it wasnt the peak afterall!

Vent away babes, vent away!

Most people would say a cancelled appointment is just that but these things effect us so much more because we wait so long for everything!

I wish I had magic words to make you feel better hopefully this cyber hug will help some!

Pudding
x


----------



## Teeinparis

Tiff, I think the cancellation of the DE is a blessing in disguise.  Focus all your positivity on collection on Friday.  Do your Zita Smith CD's, chill and relax.  Throw a sicky at work if you have to and spend each day at the spa or with close friends.  Have lots of sex - go to the beach.  Easier said then done I know.  

As for me - I had another consultation with a Doc who is a friend of a friend.  She said change clinics that her view is the clinic.  Saying that though, we can't rule out eggs as have just done two day transfers.  So who knows.  I think I now have a yeast infection - just never seems to end!  I just wanted a good month of eating right and exercising and having sex!  Now have that YI and am constipated/or the opposite depending!  urgh.  

Lots of love to everyone.  Tee


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks pudding for understanding my vent. It was just a moment of insanity lol. 

Tee, thanks I am hoping you right and it's a sign. I am hoping this is one of these miracles people speak about. If not and it doesn't work I will have closure for donor eggs. Sorry to hear you not well or sexing lol. Hinges eill get better.  I think a change in clinic will do a world of good. My change was the best thing I ever did. I will never go back. 

A silly question. Can you have sex while Et and retrieval? And 2ww? I am a little embarrassed to say T through all this Ivf and sore ovaries and prodding, my sec life is non existent....bad to say it loud. It is just about sperm samples well selfies on dh part. Shame!!!!


----------



## Teeinparis

Tiff, thinking about you today!  Let me know how you get on.  

As for the sex stuff.  Clinics differ....as ours is a supposed sperm issue, we were ordered essentially to have sex every-other day in order to try and improve sperm.  We didn't during the last two week wait but from now on as long as I am not really sore we will be sticking to the every other day.  It helps us stay closer.


----------



## Pudding34

Hey Ladies!

Tiff I hope all goes well today!

AFM I'm back on knicker watch again, I had my first 28 day period for a long time last month which I hoped was the new medication I am on which would make my day one today on a 28 day cycle today!

Why oh why do we spend our lives looking in our knickers, either praying there is nothing there or willing something to be there! That is definitely one indignity that we suffer that other women don't! It's just endless isn't it!

Worked very hard on the diet and exercise this week and lost ...............nothing! Great! 

A friend told me that if you want to lose weight you need to drink more water so I am now drinking a lot more and peeing constantly, thank god i work from home, people would think I had a "problem"!

I'm loving the sun shining today and even put my washing out on the line woooohooo! While out there I caught my clematis eater at it, it was little puppy all along! I had my suspicions but he had an accomplice in my parents dog so I was never sure if he did it or just reaped the benefits!!!! The little monster! Will need to construct some kind of protective cage!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks. Did retrieval. There was only 1 eff the other empty. Natural eggs here we go....let's see what happens. Tee are u planning anything soon?


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## Pudding34

Tiffany

So glad it went okay, keeping my fingers crossed for you!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi.

Feeling really down about things now.  Broke my diet.  So kicking myself.  

We are heading away next week.  While away we are seeing another FE who is a friend of a friend.  She also recommend we do a few tests.  Not sure how long they will take.  She essentially said given all our results and tests thus far her clinic would cit our chances at near 50 percent and thinks our clinic is rubbish essentially.  

I have a weight goal before starting again but depending may do a cycle while away and stay longer....but we will see.  

Tee


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Tee

So sorry you are feeling down, it's good that you have a new plan, a plan helps everything seem better!

I don't now how effective the water thing will be as only just started but worth a go so its 1 fl oz for every pound you weigh, its all down to the body not working properly when dehydrated, if you do give it a go let me know how you get on!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi, 

Water works ok.  Keeps you filled up.  Really - buy the 30 mins shred with Gillian Michaels and do that.  I guarantee you will lose weight.  I just need to stick with it.  

Tee


----------



## Pudding34

Im doing aqua jog and cycling with big puppy on top of my walking with both puppies and working out in the home gym!

Gonna try some old fashioned exercise now and put the vacuum cleaner round the house!!!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi,  I guarantee you that if you do the gillian michaels it will help and you can cut out all but walking and it takes 20 mins-30 mins a day.  Worth the 10 pounds on iTunes.  

You would think the plan would help me Tiff but it isn't.  Trying to get a referral for blood tests has taken me two days.  The Aussie doc wanted karyotype, FBC, check about rebella and chicken pox, another genetic thing, blood typing, leucocytes etc.  I think that is like the immune testing they do in the UK.  

Tee


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi tee. Hope everything goes well and that your trip and new doctor can give you some perspective and find something to help. It is never nice being in limbo and not knowing. At least u don't have to take off work and are flexible to move around which helps. 

AFM, I slept all day after retrieval. Only have one egg and it is less than 4 percent chance if it working. I really did this more for piece of my mind before donor eggs my dh thinks it was a total waste. It put us back even more financially. But I needed to rile this out, even though truthfully I don't think it will work. 

The question is when will it ever be our turn?!!? Age is just ticking and already I will be an old mother. Wish I started when I was much younger. 

I feel even people who do IVF get on average on the 3rd time and mine is just going up and up, way past that


----------



## Teeinparis

Tiff, 

Oddly enough - 34 is not an old mother.  Most people wait to try IVF to closer to 40 I think.  It is just circumstance.  We just thought it would happen.  If only I knew I would've started right away at 26.  But - we didn't.  Another friend who is my husbands age and she is within a year of me - got pregnant right after their wedding in Oct.  (the one I put IVF for to go to ) - yes I am a bit bitter but just to show you.  It does just happen for most.  it is NOT out fault. 

As for the one egg.  I think it will work.  Are they going to take it to Blasto?  And normally naturally you just get one right?  So it is just about implantation.  Do they have a theory for that?

The people here in Paris, a lot seem to go 6 or 7 times before it works.  

So just stay positive.  

Tee


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks tee

They just putting one in but only if it lasts to day 5. So still the long wait. I am not sure how long it usually takes but I am only trying once. You right many people have kids later than my age and we can't regret anything. Will try remain as positive as possible. 

Can I ask what is the ideal weight in kilograms one should be ? It seems slot of you guys are mentioning it helps.


----------



## Pudding34

I was told it's not the weight itself but the BMI!

You can use an online calculator to work this out from your weight and your height.

NHS requires a BMI of less than 30 ands other is what aim working towards, being tall it's hard because I actually carry my weight quite well but it's still there!

Our NHS consultant also said that the less extra tyres you have round your waist the better as well!

Really I think being overweight and/or having a high BMI is symptomatic of another problem that could effecting fertility!

Still no sign of AF and feel a bit disappointed as I had hoped that my medication had sorted out my cycles!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Do an hpt in case!


----------



## Pudding34

Yeah I thought of that and did it and it was a big fat Not Pregnant! So at least I know!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Just be mindful most of them aren't completely accurate until one week late


----------



## ayah

Tiff glad they got an egg, when will they call?

Pudding, the water should help and once your body is used to it the costant peeing will help.  The slowing of weight loss is normal too. You might find next week you loss more.  But if AF is due you may have gained some fluid, which will drop off when AF arrives.  I always put on few pounds when AF due then loss it after.  You are doing great.  Be proud of yourself.  Oh and mucles weighs more too.

Take care all.  Off to do some mindfullness.

Ayah xxx


----------



## ayah

Pudding that was ment to read, that the frequent peeing will stop,when yiu body gets used to the extra water!

Take care all

Ayah xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi guys

Pudding that makes sense the BMi. 

Ayah I'm calling tomorrow but only day 1 tomorrow. Very risky when this only 1 egg and u need to wait 5 days. I'm scared. But need to put my girl panties on and be strong.


----------



## ayah

Tiff do they wait for blast when only one? Mine put back at 3 days as only one by then.  Said it has better chance when it where it should be.  They only blast if there is a choice.  Not sure if that true as waiting to blast, seems more common.  My prayers are with you and that little ray of hope.  

Hope you get some sleep

Ayah xxx


----------



## Sunny12

Hello Ladies,

Hope you don't mind me joining you? I feel bad posting on my usual threads when so many people have happy news or hoping for happy news. Not that I am negative just that the facts are there that our 4th ICSI cycle (which went really well!!) has led to another BFN. I have no chance of natural BFP but in my four transfers (total if 3 3 day embies and 4 5 day) not a whiff of BFP. I am having a test before my FET where they send a chunk if my womb lining to Spaib to test it. Not sure if I hope something is wrong or not, at least if there was there would be a reason and maybe they can fix it!

I'm sure same as everyone else on here all friends and family (many if whom started trying same time as us) have one or two babies and we are v much left behind. As my DH says "we are running our own race".

Just wanted to post here to people who understand what all this feels like. Been TTC for 3 1/2 years in to total. Sometimes I worry that best years of my life are passing by doing this and realising that just cos we are putting everything into does not ness mean you will get what you "deserve" - wow actually that was quite negative!!!

Will read back and find your stories!!!

Xxxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi sunny

This thread is definitely the place for you if you stick around. The truth is, we all feel the same. It is so hard and painful going through this year after year and day after day. Infertility sucks full stop. I have had 5 failed IVFs including a. Chemical pregnancy and have just stared a natural IVF. My next step is donor eggs. 

It is so hard, just try and keep the hope and keep fighting. 

I was thinking the other day how easy it is for others to just pop out a baby, even people who don't want it. Sometimes I feel my life has just been on pause waiting for something I may never get. 

Use this thread yo vent and also to gain strength....


----------



## Pudding34

Morning ladies, AF showed up last night and I was in excruciating pain for a couple of hours culminating in me "losing my lunch" so to speak in the middle of the night.

I suffered really badly with my periods when I was younger but after being on the pill it settled down, the pill! it's a joke now isn't it spending such a long time worrying about getting pregnant and actively trying to prevent it and now desperately trying to make it happen!

Anyway I usually begin my period in the morning and even if it is painful exercise helps but that's a bit hard at 2am!

I was very surprised that I was sick, that hasn't happened to me for a long while perhaps  it is actually unconnected, it's hard to know!

At least with my period beginning we will be able to book the dates for the cycle, my weight loss hasn't picked back up yet but I hoping that I will lose a bit more now my period has begun, hopefully it will be enough to start the cycle in three weeks time!

Welcome Sunny, this thread was started for ladies like us who have experienced negative cycles and as time has marched on things have developed for our group with new cycles and even a natural miracle for Ayah.

Most of us on here know how multiple negative cycles feel, whether CP or BFN and can offer each other support and advice.

I like what your DH said about running your own race, another lady on this site gave some advice that I really liked which was if you feel jealous of others who are pregnant or who have kids just remember you want your own baby not hers! It was very wise and has really stuck my mind!

I don't think you sound negative sweetie just like somebody who has needs which aren't being met at the moment!

I think the frustrating thing is that you are right, no matter how much we put into this we may never get what we deserve and want, but for me I have to keep trying!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Ayah they put it back day 5 always they say if it is going to last it should last til day 5 and not give us false hopes. 

Pudding sorry you are in usury pain. I know the feeling when you young, you think you can do anything and get pregnant. Very inaccurate!!!!

From my side, my day 1 one and only egg fertilized. I called and day one tick. I am in constant reminder that last time I had 7 that I lost on day 4 or 5. But 1 step at a time.  So hoping one day at a time that it lasts til ET. I have never only had 1 and it is scary to say the least. 

On the good side, well not IVF related I am going away I. April for a week and a bit so can refresh again. 

I have no doubt one day they will find a way for everyone to have babies or a cure, but sad that it won't be in our lifetime. Damn science working too slow for us


----------



## Pudding34

Tiffany , one step at a time indeed, look at it like this you have already gotten over the first hurdle! I'm thinking of you and your little embie a lot and a sending you lots of positive thoughts if that means anything!

Going away in April sounds like a great idea!

Im still feeling a bit rough today, got cramps still, exercise hasn't seen them off so far so gonna take big puppy for another walk and see if that helps!

I had a lovely cuddle with little puppy earlier, he is finally loving a cuddle and as he is my baby substitute that's just as well isn't it!

Pudding
X


----------



## Sunny12

Tiffany - thank you for the welcome. For your one embryo, my Accupuncture lady said to look at it like this - in a natural month lots if eggs are in contention for ovulation but one is the strongest and that "wins" and is released. In a normal ivf cycle by day 5 most people only have one left and likely that is the best egg that you would have ovulated with, for you this us your one that is going so you def can believe this us the "winner!!".

Pudding - great af arrived so you can plan but not fear for the pain!! You are totally right we do not want the other ladies babies so no need to be jealous of them!!

V happy to have found this thread

Xxxxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks sunny and pudding. 

Pudding, hope the pain subsides soon...the things we have to go through!!!! But true that you can now plan the next BMi dependent. Can you exercise while on IVF? I have been too worried too and therefore haven't for a long time. I have lost weight due to eating well and feeling good that way just not exercising which isn't good!!!!

Sunny, thanks for the info. It is true. Will keep the hope alive. That gives me great insight and hope. It makes sense actually. Perhaps I am the odd person who can stand the test of time through this natural cycle. I hope you are feeling a little better today and honestly don't hold back on good or bad emotion here. We accept each other no matter what. You can see I have been on a bit of a negative spiral but then every now and then get that glimpse of hope n

Bailey hope all is going well with you xxx

Have a good rest of the weekend everyone XXXXXXXX here's to hoping for a emotionally pain fee week next week


----------



## Stacey84

Hi All, 

Just wanted to pop on and say hi. Not much happening with me at the minute, got my follow up a week on Tuesday, but I've still been popping on every few days to try and keep up with everyone and see how you are getting on. Fingers crossed for you all, sending positive thoughts your way Tiffany.
Welcome Sunny, sorry you find yourself here but it's nice to have a place to express yourself without having to worry that those listening (or in this case reading) don't understand, think you're being dramatic etc. 
Keep going with the exercise Pudding, I've been trying to be lose a bit of weight too, in the hope it will increase our chances next time, but it's not easy.

Take care everyone

xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks Stacey xxx


----------



## scribbles

Hi girls, I just want to vent. 
We are about to start our second cycle after our last cancelled for understimming. I just can't feel happy about it, I feel more dread and apprehension than excitement. Our last cycle was 90% excitement and 10% reminding myself that it might not work. This time it's the complete reverse, 90% feeling that it won't work and 10% hoping that it does. I feel like more of going through a necessary process than embarking on an exciting journey to conceive. It kind of sucks the joy out of conceiving. No fun night with my awesome hubby, no happy surprise, no "honey, guess what!!!!", just a clinical invasion. I really want a family, I really want this cycle to work, I just don't feel happy about it like I think I should be. 

Has anyone else felt the same?


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi Scribbles

as time goes buy, truthfully - the reality sets in that IVF is not something that just happens and is successful - it is harrd and each failed cycle does bring you more pessimism and increased nervousness as you realise that there are many steps that you may not make through. Last time you made it through to a very early stage, and you may have realised that this is not as easy as you thought. I also thought, my first IVF - I woulnt be like others, it would come through. 

This does test you and you need to gain strength and find ways to be positive as the process treats you like a number, it is invasive, and you feel very unnatural.

Try and find some inner peace with it and know that altgough there is a chance you do not get pregnant, there is a lot of hope that you do - and the mroe you try, the more your doctors know about you and can help you. try and meditate and keep your mind and stress at peace to be the best you can be to accept this cycle.

These are such natural feelings you are going through - please dont worry - just jkeep them from attacking your positive thoughts that enter your body during this time.

Good luck and stay on here - this thread helps you vent and offload and also get further perspectives....


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Scribbles

I feel the same way as you at times, however I keep telling myself that we are changing a lot of things on this our second cycle, I will be starting on a higher stims dose, I'm on Metformin and thyroxine, I'll also be on claxane and aspirin, DH and I have both lost weight and changed our diets, hopefully all of these things might make it more successful this time!

Have you made any changes to your treatment on this cycle? Could bearing in ind little changes give you some more confidence?

I echo what Tiffany said, I thought that as IVF was so hard and involved it would work first time, two chemicals later I know that that isn't true but we have to modify our tactics and keep trying!

AFM I have been given dates for my new cycle and it's all becoming real again! They reminded me I still have to lose weight so just spent a hour and a half in our home gym!  

A little rant if I may! On our first cycle DH needed to go away for business during the weeks of EC and ET I explained to him that wasn't possible as he was needed here especially on EC day to "provide his contribution" firstly I shouldn't have had to explain that as it seems quite simple to me! But also as many of us know now dates are only a guideline and you can be delayed or things go quicker than expected! So I told him that he needed to avoid going away during certain dates! 

That didn't go down well! I let it go at the time, then during our frozen cycle he said he may not be at ET as he may have to go away, so I sat him down and patiently explained what this would mean and that although I could live with him not being there, would he regret it in the future? I also explained that there would be a three week period to cover any delays like we had last time during our next cycle that he will need to avoid being away!

Okay, sorry this is so long, so today I got the dates and he said in quite a huffy voice that he needed to go away during the expected week of collection, the key part that he can't be away for! I explained it again calmly and he said okay what about the following week so again I calmly explained that if we are pushed a week that won't work either and even if we aren't delayed the ET would be that week does he want to risk missing it?

His reply was okay so the week of the ET will be okay yes?  I mean seriously not only does he not take onboard what I say to him he isnt even listening!

I lost my patience at that point and just said whatever you want to do!

I fully understand that he needs to go away at times, he has travelled for work the whole time we have been together and I never complain, this is the only time I ask him to be aware of what WE are trying to do, it's not fair to keep making me feel like I am nagging him!

Uuuurrrrrggggghhhhhrant over!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Today is day 3 and my one little embie is still fighting singles for its life. I need to hope it blastoplasts for Wednesday ET. I am well aware though that last time day 5 was where it all went wrong and I lost a whole lot. Now I only have 1 and 2 more days!!!!

Went to counselling for donor eggs today. I must admit it was disappointing. Feel like I waste my money. I could've told myself everything she said. But what I did realize is what an impact this has had on me emotionally and the build up over time what it does to you. 


Pudding, awwww so happy you have something to look forward to. Our cycles and hope are like our drugs lol. When you are in between it is hard at least hope means you are still in the game. Try and loose as much weight as you can and prepare for it as much  as possible. Sorry to hear about dh. These things put such added stress on a relationship. My dh also had a very critical meeting and I had to go to clinic alone. He always makes a plan to come with me. But I must admit. I look at how I have let my work down, sometimes you just can't help it. I'm worried one day I will get fired even though I do well in my job because some key meetings and strategic sessions I have missed. It's just as hard on our dh but I know how you feel. My ET dh couldn't come and I told him to ear range and come that it's not only me in this. But when I really think about it, work is important and at times there are just critical things u can't get out of. The problem is when he needs to give sperm. That is a big issue.  I know they may be able to freeze the sperm and use that but I too would want him thee on that day. Hope you work it out and can still do the cycle. Take care and try and see things from his side as well as frustrating as it is sometimes men need to be spelt out what you want. Good luck!!!!


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi all!  

So am pretty lucky on the recommendation of a friend of a friend who is an FE she suggested she would ask for more tests.  About 15 -20 viles later I think it was pretty much all the tests - caryotypes, fbc, various viruses, leukocyte a etc that we would've got for the immune stuff for a grand for free plus 150 consultation.  

Hopefully there is nothing! 

Have you guys heard of inofolic?  My fe recommended it.  

Tee


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi

Have to say my husband has looped in key colleagues and with big meetings warns them he may just need to dial in.  Everyone is so understanding!  He then works from home as long as I am poorly.  He is a gem.  He also takes test day off!  

I am blessed!


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi tee

Glad you are bring looked at thoroughly!!!! Let us know how the results go. Hope you find something that will help with the next one


----------



## Pudding34

That's the frustrating thing for me with DH really, he makes all this fuss but when it comes to the crunch he can't do enough for me!

Why oh why do we have to go through these annoying strops all the time, it's so tiring!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Lol the truth is we find fault in so much but they have been there standing by our side. I know mine has been fantastic and supported me even though I have the female issue. Sometimes good to vent though.


----------



## Pudding34

I think sometimes I just need to vent, I seem to do all the work,booking appointments doing research etc and he really just waits for me to tell him when and where to go, and I don't mind that so much but when he is stroppy with me I get all annoyed and think hang on I do all the arranging and he is whining at me because he has to be in the country to give his sample!

Does any of that make sense?

He apologised to me but again I don't want him to be sorry I want him to stop giving me a hard time!

Honestly, I'm stressed and tired and hungry  because I'm trying to lose the weight and I'm feeling the fears of what if it doesn't work how will I cope again so any stress or whining from DH presses my buttons and gets me all worked up, I know indeed to chill but it's so much easier said than done!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Pudding - we have lots of arguments - like me not wanting to be around people with kids right now.  Don't get me wrong.  Fortunately/unfortunately - most of his colleagues know and just say family comes first.  We are really blessed.  

Pud - also look at inofolic.  it is supposed to help with weightless with folic acid and egg quality and miscarriage rates.  My FE recommended it.


----------



## Tiffanymi

Understandable pudding. With this our pressure points are a lot easier to push and the anxiety before a cycle is unbearable. Hope you work things out with dh and that he is able to see your side. 

Tee that stuff looks great. I'm on stamina grow does it replace this?

I'm anxious my egg won't last til Wednesday based on last time and only having one egg is scary!!!!


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi, 

i have no idea about stamina grow.  i am still taking my prenatal vitamins as as well folic acid it has all the vitamins plus omega 3.  

I have a good feeling Tiff - but want to encourage you to keep trying naturally.  All the docs we have talked to have the miracle stories.  They keep telling us not to stop trying!  plus sex is good for stress  apparently some clinics even suggest it around transfer as there is something in sperm that helps implantation. 


Tee


----------



## ayah

Hi ladies,

Tiff, cant imagine how you must be feeling.  All riding on this one.  Time must be standing still for you.  So so hoping this is the one.  Less than 48 hours now.  Think I would need to be put into an induced coma and just woken, just before ET!  

Pudding I completely get it.  Mine can be so flaming useless at times.  Like you i did all the booking, listening, research, visits.  Just makes a stressful situation harder.  I need him to be my rock,  i need to be allowed to be weak and carried sometimes. But no all down to me.  God it is with everyyhing though.  I drive everywhere cos he stresses instead of reading the signs.

So here are my suggestions 

1) write down what ivf entails, the estimated schedule and when sperm as well as eggs are needed.  End with statment "any questions call the clinic on ...... "  make it clear you didnt design the treatment or deside that sperm is required to makes babies, so if he is not happy then he can complain to the clinic and God!  Any time he wants to strop hand him the the note.

2) this is my perfered.  Sit him down and applogise for being unreasonable.  Of caurse he needs to go away for work.  It is your fault AF is not predictable and the clinics fault the shedule can change.  So you have arranged for a sperm donor, so the he does not need to chang his work plans!

3)  when he wants to play difficult simply ask. " Are we in this together as a married coupke who love each other". Hopfully the reply is yes!  Then, "great so I dont need to go through this again.  If you want confirmation of when you can go please ask the clinic.  Now can we .....take dogs for walk/ watch a dvd" ect.

My OH can be a stroppy mare and will appologise later, but like you it is not an appolgy I am looking for but mature common sence.  How did the world function before women started to get proper education?  

My first councellor told me that i should not expect my OH to be suppoertive!  Really?  Did not see her again.  What is marriage about, if not sharing lifes ups and downs and being there for each other? 

Scribbles, this game is hard x 999999million and more.  You need to have some possitivity or why bother, but it is a big emtional risk to be really excited, as theres just no garentee of a baby at the end.  Get the safety net and crash mat out ( eg  FF, prepair DH for what you need from him if it not work, and prehaps a treat for you both at the end, something to look forward to away from tx)  then bite the bullet and go forth.  I dont think it nessassy to get too excited.  But try and be possitive.  It can work ( rather than it will work ) hope and realism in proprtion.  One day at a time.  There will be hard days or moments.  Feel them except them , but dont allow yourself to be consumed by then. Oh and I see you have a good sence of humour, let that out too.  

Tee hpoe those bloods all come back ok, or at least with an easily solved issue.

To everyone else, take care.  Thinking of you all. 

Ayah xxx


----------



## ayah

Hi Tee just read your last post.  Sex releases endorphines, nateral morphine.  So good for headaches and stress!  Think for me it best to think of it just for fun, with no ecpectations.  Keep the spark.  It can become so machanical when trying naturally.  Makes sence that it would have propertises to support implantation too.

Keep the hope ladies

Ayah xxx


----------



## scribbles

Thanks for all your kind words and advice girls, feeling a lot more positive today. Started doing Insanity in the gym to get the happy endorphins hormones going! Plus I'm studying for a degree that keeps my kind off it. I suppose I don't notice or appreciate what I have until I look for it! Plus had a good chat with hubby and talked things through, if be lost without him!


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

I am going in tomorrow for ET. But only once I call the lab to see if eggs are ok  worried as I onky heard on Monday last!!!! 

Tee thanks but natural is a no no for me. Tubes fully blocked and closed so they don't leak for egg. No chance of that

Ayah thanks for the wishes

Pudding hope you and dh were able to work things out


AFM. Please let the egg last to go in tomorrow!!!!


----------



## bailey434

Hi all

Sorry I've been quiet, but have been away alot with work over the last 10 days or so and not great internet availability, have been keeping up just about with what's happening with everyone. 

Have everything crossed for your egg Tiff  
Will write more soon
Take care all
xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

my embie didnt make it to transfer today  so so sad....life is so hard at the moment and i feel so flat


----------



## Pudding34

Tiffany I am so very very sorry, my thoughts are with you! 

Pudding
X


----------



## Bethlehem

Hi I hope I can join you ladies please, I cant think where else to post. I had a hsg last month before starting treatment and have not stopped bleeding since. It seemed to have messed up my hormones? I can't even begin a cycle until this one ends so I have to wait another month or two here. 
I am just going to start reading this thread from the beginning now after posting this so hopefully I will get to know a few names and join in a bit over the next while!

Lovely to meet you all anyway!


----------



## Stacey84

Welcome Bethlehem, we are all used to the waiting so feel free to vent and moan about it.

Tiffany, I am so sorry. I know there is nothing I can say to make you feel better, but just take care of yourself and take time to heal. 

Hope everyone else is doing ok

xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks Xxx

I now know for sure my eggs officially  suck. I am taking a long break from this IVF thing it's so financially and mentally crippling. But next step donor eggs. First holiday, rest, and some months break. So for know I am really in between treatments for a while. Sick sick sick of this crap!!!!

Bethlehem. Welcome. Hope the AF gets better


----------



## ayah

Oh Tiff I am so sorry.  Just had a good feeling for you.  Guess we all just wish for each other so much that things work.  A good brake sounds like a nice idea.    

Of all the treads I have been on you ladies here are the kindest most supportive I have met.  Of caure I wish every one here on FF to have successful tx or natural if possible, but the wish is just that bit stronger for you all.  

Bethleham,  hope that AF stops soon so that you can crack on.  I have felt in the past that I was wishing my life away just to get on with the next tx.  All best.

Hope that everyone else is not too bad.

Take care Ayah xxx


----------



## Teeinparis

Bethlehem - so sorry about AF - sounds weird.  Do go in and get looked at.  You definitely want to rule out miscarriage or eptopic pregnancy  Also, try parsley tea - it clears the drugs out of your liver.  

Take care everyone!

Tee


----------



## Bethlehem

No it's not a period, I did not ovulate but have had heavy bleeding for 18 days. I just went for a scan today and have two follicles that look like I am just about to ovulate but the lining of my womb is not at the same stage so there is a breakdown of communication! The blood is bright red, but they scanned for ages today and said there is nothing in the wrong place, and all the blood poured out on the bed as she was scanning me. The ivf nurse didn't bat an eyelid at it. She said oh you look wrecked! I was like thanks a million haha.

Just starting reading this thread from scratch, omg you ladies are really inspirational, I know I am in the right place now. Wow.


----------



## Teeinparis

Beth - glad you got checked out.  Fingers crossed it sorts itself out!  

Going on holiday and getting a second opinion while at it.  

Take care all! 

Love tee


----------



## Pudding34

Welcome Bethlehem!

I need a bit of advice, I am having a Hysteroscopy and scratch in two weeks time and the clinic asked if I want a General or Local with gas and air, I created a new thread to get some idea of which way to go and it's come back about fifty fifty!

So if any of you ladies have had one done please let me know what you think, I hate smears and my colposcopys were not pleasant so that's an indication of my pain threshold!

Pudding
X


----------



## Alotbsl

Hi pudding, how do you feel after a general, some people react differently to it but if it takes your worry away??


----------



## bailey434

I'm so sorry Tiff to hear your news, I think a holiday sounds like a good idea to regroup and decide on your next steps  

I'll be interested in the responses re: endo scratch as I'm due to have one in about a month hopefully and I don't think I've been offered any pain relief as yet for it. Is it really painful then??!

Hi Bethlehem, sounds like you are going through the mill at the moment too, hope they manage to decide what is going on soon and can maybe help your body sort itself out back to normal!
xx


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## Teeinparis

Pud - I don't think I had anything for my hysteroscopy.  It was uncomfortable and ouchy but not too bad as only lasted 15 mins and I was running the next day.  However, mine was just pictures.....and he was positive it wasn't going to show anything.  However, if they are doing it to actually remove things I think if you react well to a general do it.  (I don't do generals well so avoid them at all costs)  I have heard the scratch isn't bad at all.


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## Bethlehem

Pudding I had a hysterospcopy with no medication at all, it was not nice! The main reason was because they told me it was "like a smear". It is nothing NOTHING like a smear at ALL! Now if I was prepared and knew what to expect it might not have been so bad at all, but it was a bit traumatic being awake and totally unprepared.

I have since learned that most hospitals give you a GA for this or sedation, it took about 40 minutes so I imagine its totally fine once you have taken some pain killers before hand!


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## Stacey84

Sorry Pudding, I've not had one so can't offer any words of wisdom.

I was planning on coming on here tonight to ask your advice about what all I should ask at my follow up on Tuesday but now instead I need to offload.

I came home from work and switched the wi-fi on my phone on. I had a whats app message on a group chat with 4 of my close friends.... I'm sure you can see where this is going..... one has announced she is pregnant, and instead of leaping with joy, I burst into tears. And keep doing so. I feel like such a bad person for feeling jealous but I can't help it. We are all going out on Saturday night for one of the other girl's birthday and I'm now dreading it, coz I don't know what to do or say, I know it's going to be hard to keep the tears back (I'm overly emotional at the best of times - I cry at Monster's inc!) All the other girls have replied to say how great it is, let us see the scan pic etc and I feel angry coz I think they are being insensitive, which makes me feel angry with myself coz I know they can't not get pregnant in fear of upsetting me. I'm glad she didn't tell me in person coz I don't think I would have been able to hide how I feel. I just don't know how us ladies in this position are supposed to cope with this. I've been lucky enough to never be heartbroken romantically, but that is how I feel everytime someone tells me they are pregnant.

Sorry for the long rant, but I just needed to type. I don't think anyone in that group of friends really understand how I feel or what I'm going through. Luckily I have another 2 friends in a different circle who I know I can vent to without feeling too bad about it.

AAARRGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I hope everyone is having a better day than me

xx


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## bailey434

Hi Stacey, sorry you are having a rough time.

Firstly check out this link re what to ask at your follow up meeting, it really helped me to gather my thoughts and find out about some new things that might be possible to try http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=283000.0

Secondly it's such a difficult situation to be in when close friends tell you that they are pregnant when you have just found out that you're not. Did they know that you were having treatment? My cousin's wife had a baby recently and then announced it on ******** and it turns out that she has chosen the exact name (first AND middle) that I had chosen for a girl. I felt like I'd been punched and at the same time realised that it seemed ridiculous as she didn't know that I wanted those names if I ever have a little girl. Emotions are so hard to deal with, let alone predict. If you are feeling really like you can't face them then I would say think about maybe not going on Saturday? You have to look after yourself, both physically and mentally, and if that means, at the moment, that you don't see them then don't. You can always say you've got a stomach bug rather than specifically having to say something about treatment? Unfortunately everyone else's lives go on, while we are still trying to either get pregnant, or deal with not getting pregnant. Sorry I can't be of more help, but please feel free to vent some more to try and get your head around it, we all know how difficult all these situations are 
x


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## Pudding34

Oh Stacey Sweetheart I know exactly how you feel, when my third of three best friends announced her pregnancy after the other two within the same year it was mercifully on the phone and she couldn't see me, I sank to the floor in my kitchen and just sobbed for what felt like forever!

Like you said at least it wasn't face to face, we have to be grateful for small mercys! I dread anybody telling me face to face, I really don't think my poker face will stand the assault! 

I think Bailey is right you have to do what you have to do to keep your sanity and if you feel that means crying off on Saturday then do it! but if you think you can stand it you should go, we have to strike the right balance between avoiding the things that might hurt us and missing out on the fun things that come hand in hand with them!

I have been avoiding these situations ever since we were diagnosed and I do sometimes think I miss out on stuff! but ultimately its all about survival as many things are for us in our infertility world!

I really hope that the shock has worn off and you are feeling a bit better.

Pudding
x


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## Tiffanymi

Thanks everyone for the support

Pudding I had that procedure but honestly can't remember whether I was under or not. I have been prodded and poked so much that I have forgotten. Not a good sign!!

Stacey sorry to hear. It is so so hard. My sisters kids keep getting older and older never mind people being pregnant. This means my kids will never have cousins their age. They will have massive age gaps. My friends are finished their 2 kids and have closed shop. People don't even ask me about kids anymore. Not even the ones that don't know about IVF. They probably know there is a problem. 

This is just an opinion but I know everyone reacts differently. Don't isolate yourself from the people you are close to due to kids etc. I went through that and felt more angry depressed and sad than when I dealt with the kids. You need people and it is easy to feel negative towards them not because it's their fault. Try and embrace your support structure. You will need it. My opinion though I know everyone is different. Bailey the name thing nearly happened to me. They nearly chose this name. It hurt. 

Tee did you get bloods back or will they take time

I set time with DE agency. I am giving myself a long break though just want to be educate. 

Infertility sucks.....but this too shall end and we will hopefully have happy endings ****


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## Pudding34

Tiff, in glad you have your DE app and that you are taking some time to look into the whole thing!

Every new step opens a whole new world of info to explore and learn doesn't it!

When talking about the whole process to SIL the other day she said I sound like I have swallowed a text book! This got me thinking and I wonder if I am becoming a bit obsessed with IVF and making our next cycle work!

Even when I am doing something else, working or helping my parents move house I constantly have part of my mind on weight loss for IVF or another test or procedure!

I'm the kind of person who finds it easier to cope with things if I fully understand them and I know that's not the same for everybody but am I taking it to the n'th degree?

Our lives have changed a lot in the last year, IVF meant that the best work option for me was consulting on a freelance basis after I was made redundant last year but this means our finances are tighter so we don't go out or away like we used to, not that we can't but I don't enjoy it when I am worrying about cash, my family didn't have much money when I was growing up and it's ingrained in me to be careful!

We used to go for super long walks with big puppy but little puppy can't walk that far yet so once he can that will be a new thing to do! But even then I still think and talk constantly about ivf and the next cycle!

It just takes over our lives doesn't it!

Pudding
X


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## Bethlehem

Stacey that is rough. I always think to myself "that's not my baby they are having, mine is just a bit delayed and nothing to do with this. There isn't just a set amount of children and my child may be on the next plane" I sort of detatch myself as if they have gotten a new dress, it really doesn't affect my odds.

That probably sounds ridiculous in the face of that heartbreaking unfairness, but it has gotten me through loads of situations because I actually believe it! Although I am one of those idiots that think they will win the lottery every single time.


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## Pudding34

Bethlehem

The thing about the lottery is that you have to be "in it to win it"!

There is no reason why it can't be you or any of us!

We have to keep believing!

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Pudding, I know what you mean about swallowing a text book. Lol. I have over researched and over analyzed everything but now it's enough I am not anymore. 

AFM, my stomach is so sore it is painful. I am also naseous. I am not sure if gastro as it is going around and it feels like it could be. Or could it be IVF? Can you believe feeling so sick I couldn't even have wine after my bad news!!!! 

Does anyone know about epigenetics?

Hope you all have a good weekend xxxx


----------



## Stacey84

Thanks Girls, I'm feeling a bit more positive now. I can't not go as it's the birthday of someone I've been best friends with since we were 3, and I have already missed one other friend's birthday celebration a couple of weeks ago as she had a joint party with her 2 year old son and I just knew I couldn't cope with a kids party.
At least the pregnant friend is not the one who's birthday it is, so she may not be speaking about it too much as it won't be all her friends there. I think what made it worse is that if my cycle had been successful, I would have been having my 12 week scan around now and we would be roughly at the same stage. 
I think I will adopt your way of thinking and dealing with it Beth, it sounds like a good coping mechanism.

Sorry you are feeling poorly Tiff, I hope it eases up real soon. I'm not familiar with epigenetics sorry.

I hope everyone has fun things planned for the weekend

xx


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## Tiffanymi

Stacey, glad you are feeling a bit better and managed one event. It is important to keep the support and keep close with good friends. 

Feeling really crappy. I manage to get 2 bugs at once. Gastro and sinusitis and inflamed colon stomach glands. Don't think IVF had anything to do with it!!!! I'm so so sick was in bed all day feeling surreal from medication and fever. So it's been very depressing firstly for my IVF eggs to have died and then to lay in bed all day feeling so sick. Makes you think about things and feel sad all over. I just don't think it will ever work for me. I know this sounds bad but  even people on this site, my 6 failed times sounds huge compared to some people. I feel so much in the minority even on this site and I am wondering if this will ever work for me. It just seems like I am not supposed to have a child and that hurts. Like I would be a bad mother or the reason I'm not having a child is that something may happen to the child. Like someone is trying to tell me something. I know it's not true but how I feel at the moment....sorry for the negativity and venting but just one of thoese blue days and some things and feelings coming out now that I moving to DEs.


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## Pudding34

Oh Tiff darling you really are being kicked when you are down aren't you.

I can't even begin to imagine how you are feeling after 6 tries all I know is that you are a true inspiration, you have been through so much and you have been so strong.

I do know one thing! This has not happened to you because you would be a "bad mother" in fact I think that your desire to carry on even in the face of so many knock backs makes you best placed to be a mother and when this happens for you, however it happens for you, you will be an awesome mother and your child or children will be the luckiest in the world!

Take it easy sweetie and I hope you feel a bit better soon!

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

Thanks pudding  

Sometimes you just take a dip and then can get back up again. How things with you. Have you decided on the next cycle?


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## Pudding34

You are always welcome sweetie!

Things are okay here, I'm up and down really sometimes I feel super positive and then I crash again!

I'm hoping to start in two weeks if I can shift the last of this weight just 3.5kgs to go! And I'm fluctuating a lot hopefully I will fluctuate back down before crunch day!

I'm thinking of you darling, stay strong and I know you will resurface, women like us always do!

Pudding
X


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## ayah

Tiff, I get your reaction to this whole IF thing.  So often we say or hear "everything happens for a reason!"  So natural to try and figure out what that reason is.  I have felt that  feeling too.  Still am!  Wondered if God had not wanted me to be a mum cos iwas not up tojob, but gave onto my nagging!  And has given me to prove to me way He had not given me before!  No logic or faith in that, just mixed up hormones.

But if it was really true then social sevices we only be involved with orphaned children.  6 ivf and still in this games shows resolve, determination and great strength.  All characteristcs of a fabulas mum.  Not to mention an understanding of coping with grief.  When hormones not controlling my thoughts, I believe that all hardship helps us to grow as people.  Those who suffer the most are often the ones who have themost to give.

6 ivf is a lot, but not just because most women have successful tx but becaouse a lot cant do so many, cos they cant cope with it or money.  I know women who stopped after one despite having the money, cos it too hard for them.  That makes you very stronge. Prehaps all this is about you realising your own strength..

Pudding, wow so close now.  Hate how itgets harder to loss weight as it goes on.  3.5kg to go, I can see why it always on yourmind!  At 25 i went to a gym, and would make myself work harder by reminding myself i neede to be fit and keepweight off to have baby.  Oh my seems like a lifetime ago.

Stacey hope that you had an enjoyable evening out.  I dont like the jeousey thing, as it like sayingno one can have what i dont have.  And it prevents me from enjoying other peoples happiness, which i like to do.  Others happiness makes me happy.  Dont see why i cant have a bit of it!  I prefer to think of it as being reminded of what  I dont/didnt have YET.  That feels sad and sometimes i need to aviod thier joy, but only until i have felt my pain and can put it in a box for later.  Then i dont need to add guilt to my list of emtions.  When i did feel real jeolousy for a friend on third, i knew i was depressed.  Real joulousy will leave a person bitter and empty.  A change of mind set to it being slappted in the face with your own situation by mistake, helps me to feel the sorrow without the resentment.  Then put it away when i want to feelhappy for them ( like everyone else) hell i was not gojng to miss out on it all just cos my body was being difficult! IF can take over and rob you of years of your life.  It is so hard to keep some balance and not let it rob us of ljfes goodtimes.  (Which is also our friends good news).  I know that is easy for me to say but learnt it from those who had toleave the hope of having kids orother losses.

Oh my too much rambling!  Is not a day i not hoping the best for you ladies.  

One last bit 
PUDding no idea about the procedure, but after GA you will nedd someone at home with you for 24 hours or a least over night.  And cant drive for at least 36 hours.  If this possible i would have GA as I am a whimp!  Would prefer cannular and GA to injection for pain!  I brake out in swear if i have to give an IM injection, but dont mind putting in cannulars.  Hell, i brake out in a sweat giving tiny subcut flu jabs! 

Best bfp wishes to all.

Ayah xxx


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## Tiffanymi

Hi guys

Pudding, you have done sow well with your weight! 3.5 to go you can do it!!!! It's tough but will be worth it. Just a question is your thyroid ok? Mine was a little out so doctor gave me meds which sped up the metabolism and helped with IVF as thyroid was better. Hope all will be on track for next 2 weeks! 

Ayah, thanks for the words if strength. We often forget how strong we have been through the process and that we have so e more to go on. You are rights, some people don't do as much, some even want to do more but can't afford it. It's not really the number you tried but the feelings and years and accumulated effects. Thanks again

I am feeling much stronger. Had a dip yesterday but today ready for the challenges ahead. 

Wish all of you ladies a lovely week and dreams that will materialize in the near future. It has been so comforting having you all here through good and bad.   So here's a group hug to an amazing set of woman!!!!

Changed my picture on profile as I truly believe we will be better mothers because we appreciate this so much. Our time will come and we will not take anything for granted!!!!


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## ayah

Love the profile Tiff.  I remember an episode of friends when moica and charndler could not have kids and where trying to adopt. He descibed Monica as already being a mum without the child yet.  Guess that is where the pain lays.  The heart and souls are already parents.

Ake care Tiff and rest of you too

Ayah xxx


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## Pudding34

Ayah

I remember that episode when it first aired and crying at it because it was such a touching sentiment!

I saw it on Comedy Central a couple of months ago and cried at it again because it was a sentiment that described me!

I've always been the maternal one in my groups of friends taking care of others, helping them solve their problems and cooking for my friends.

I really do feel like a mother without a child, my fluffy babies come close but the feeling of something missing in by world is overwhelming at times!

Pudding
X


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## ayah

Oh me too Pudding.  I would still cry at it as such a stronge memory.

Thats the thing with wanting children so much.  It not like the saying "you cant miss what you have never had".  You very much can grieve not just miss the children you dont have...yet. i think thats what the rest of the world dont get.  The closest i can describe is like not being able to reach your children.  They are there somewhere, but you cant get to them.

I pray that you all reach your so soon

Ayah xxx


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## Tiffanymi

Thanks ayah I didn't realize that episode at the time but it is true. It shows how etched people are if they are not going through the same thing. Even me when I wasn't going through IVF. 

Pudding, I agree it is so painful. We must just embrace that we have so much to give and that there is no way it will go to waste as one day our dreams I'll come true. 

I have admitently unconsciously avoided my nieces. Just probably as I am going through so much this month. Went to see them today and missed their little hugs and company. I really don't want to distance myself from the present things around me. 

Feeling stronger and ready for the next step DEs. Only in 4 to 6 months or so, but ready to start the journey.

You guys rock thanks for all the support xxxx


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## Pudding34

Tiff you rock too!

I said it before but your strength has been a true inspiration to me!

I'm so glad you beat that slump to get your positivity back!

I love that you are embracing the things around you including your nieces!

I bumped into my neighbours and their one year old boy earlier today I took little puppy over to say hello, he wasn't too sure about stroking little puppy but I think he will get braver!

They are a nice couple and their little boy is lovely, I build these things up in my mind, that I won't cope and I will start crying but I love children and strangely they seem to love me too which makes this IF thing harder to take at times! 

The wait for a new cycle or new avenue seems endless and far too fast all at once doesn't it! I can't believe where  the last three months have gone, mostly in a blur of BFN blues I think!

Just praying I can lose the last couple of Kgs to start again!

Thank god Mother's Day is almost over, the constant Mother's Day reminders have really scratched at me this year, maybe because of my CP's I don't know!

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

Hopefully pudding by next Mother's Day it will be a happy day next year!!!! Glad you too are embracing kids connected to loved ones. Your puppy seems to be keeping you in your toes as well  I know what you mean about a blur of BFNs. It's like life stops.   We go dilly. Thanks for your message and have a good night.


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## Dreamer14

Hello ladies,

I hope you don't mind me joining. On OTD I had a (well 4 to be precise) BFPs but after some bleeding they have turned to BFNs   taken the day off work and trying to come to terms with it all, feeling pretty low right now.

Completely understand what you mean about that friends episode - makes me cry every time!

Ps - so glad Mother's Day is over. This was the hardest one yet for me! X


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## Pudding34

Dreamer14

I'm so very sorry for your loss, I know how it feels to get a BFP and then have it turn negative it's devastating and it will take time to come to terms with it so make sure you allow yourself that time and space.

After our last chemical, DH and I booked a holiday, I needed to get away from home and reminders of what we had been through perhaps a short trip might do you good, or a weekend away a bit of pampering? Is that possible? It really helped me!

Have you any snow babies on ice?

Apart from the holiday the other thing I found that helped was to have a plan! we had immune tests which gave us some more answers and ruled a few things out for us!

Big hugs darling, keep chatting on here, I wouldn't have got through our last chemical without the amazing ladies on here!

Pudding
X


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## Dreamer14

Thank you Pudding34 I have been thinking about trying to book a holiday I think getting away for a few days is what we both need. We have 4 snow babies.

It's helping DH to cope by coming up with action plans, I'm not quite there yet but I know I will get there eventually. This has really knocked me for 6, I thought I was doing the whole 'cautious optimism' thing quite well but I realise now I really thought it would work, especially after getting my first ever BFP.

Thanks for the hugs, right back at ya  x


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## Pudding34

I thought I had the "cautious optimism" thing down as well but a BFN always dropkicks you hard doesn't it!

No matter how prepared you are for a negative its still a shock, that little part of you still believes it can happen and I don't think we can ever suppress it!

Definitely do the holiday thing, it gives you something to focus on before you go as well!

Pudding
x


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## Tiffanymi

Hi dreamer

Welcome!!

I'm sorry to hear you are going through this. The BFP thing is the worst possible thing getting your hopes up. Just remember the doctors have more information after this cycle that may help the next one. We all have a lot of optimism going into IVF but sometimes we need to set our self some realistic principals that it may take a little time but each time yields a different approach and more info to help. I know this doesn't help the feeling of BFN esp after BFP. Sorry you are going through such loss and pain.


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## mandymoo12

Hi ladies.
Mind if I join you. I got my BFN yesterday morning. Completely shattered about it. It was my first IVF cycle, but self funded cos hubby has kids. I have done 6 rounds of clomid as well. I realised  Friday that I have pretty much been on fertility treatment since last May.
It's so weird as much as you try to prepare yourself for the possibility of a BFN it comes as a shock. It was a hundred times harder than clomid, because I always had next month. And with my sixth round of clomid I had already geared myself up for the possibility of IVF. This time, I'm not quite sure where to go. 
Every time I feel alright, something sets me off and I start crying. My DH said he wouldn't blame me if I was like this for the next few weeks.
I have booked an appointment with my clinic for Wednesday to discuss the cycle so hopefully will have more answers.
I'm thinking of probably waiting until after the Summer before trying again. It might be what we need. How long do people usually wait?
Xxx


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## Stacey84

Evening Ladies, 

I'm glad you are feeling a little more positive Tiff, it's so difficult but I'm glad you're getting there. I love your new profile pic too, I definitely think this process will make us all that little bit more appreciative of our bundles of joy when they arrive.

I love the show Friends and I have also cried at that episode! I hope you manage to lose those final couple of kgs Pudding.

Hi Dreamer, welcome to our little group. It's a shame we are here but it is a great support, and has helped me a lot. I know what you mean by the cautious optimism thing - everyone tells you to think positive but at the same time you want to prepare yourself for the heartache if it doesn't happen. 

I went to the party on Saturday and it wasn't too bad. I only had to force a smile a couple of times during baby chat, and when an old school friend said something about me having babies I just said my usual 'maybe in a year or so' line that I've been using for what feels like forever now, even though it's only been a couple of years.

I finally have my follow up tomorrow - got noted down a few things I want to ask such as egg quality (I've never been told how good they were, or anything about the grading system I've heard about on here), if they thought the procedures went as well as they could have, if they think I was on the right meds..... I just hope they say we can try again soon. I'll be really angry if they make me wait 3 months from now as it's already been 2 months and the nurse told me it would only be three months so I hope the delay in my appointment doesn't screw things up.
I'll let you know how it goes.

Take care everyone

xx


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## ayah

Hi ladies,

Dreamer sorry for your chemical.  Had a couple a while ago.  The first with first iui.  One way i coped was to say to self, well at least I can get pregnant!  Hopfully they will be able to  give you answer as go what can be done to get it to implant and stay put.  4 frost babies is a great number.  

I am not sure if cautiously optimistic really exists in if tx land.  You have to believe it can or will work to go through it.  Watching the weight and other life style changes, all in the name of increasing hope of a baby.  It is impossible not to be emtionally engrained in it.  Being realistic does little to curb the pain of a bfn or a chemical or mc.  All I feel we can really do is make sure we have a plan as to what or who can catch us if we fall.  Holiday sounds very good plan.

Pudding you are going to loss that weight.  Visulise your matabolism increasing.  Mucles defeting fat cells!  And you are doing so well at three months to be getting some positivity back..at three months I was at lowest ebb.  

Tiff like Pudding said you are a rock too.  I cant posible understand what you must be going through.  Coming to turms with your only option being donor eggs...well, all I know is I could not, so that says something about you.  

As for being inspirational, you all are too me.  I hope that I get to have real world friends as great as you lot.  And that includes all you quiet ones too!

Take care

Ayah xxx

Ps Stacey glad it was not as bad as it might have been.  Hope all goes well at appointment and  youcan get cracking with next cycle.

Mandy sorry for you bfn too.  Your DH is right about it taking a while to get over and it is great that he has the forsight to realise it.  Ivf is a much harder game than clomid in many ways.  It is the next step on and more intensive, more drugs and monitoring.  Hope that they are able to give you some answers too.  As for how long to wait, it is so personal.  I waited 7 months but only as i wanted to loss more weight.  You will know when you are ready or set yourself a time now. It is what best suits you.


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## Dreamer14

Pudding - "drop kicks you hard" couldn't have put it better myself!

Hi tiffanymi, thank you for replying to me. It has been a shock to the system and I'm finding it harder to cope than expected.

Hi mandymoo sorry you've made it over here too. I'm the same, every time I think I'm starting to deal something sets me off again! I hope your appointment on Wednesday can give you some useful answers.

Hi stacey84, I know the pretence of not being ready for kids makes it so much more difficult sometimes! My in laws are always asking when we are going to give my sister in laws 6 month old a cousin and I went to a wedding on Saturday where a few friends asked the familiar 'when are you two gonna have babies?' We got married in 2012 and bought a house last year so at the moment we're saying we want to enjoy holidays and doing nice things (fancy restaurants etc) for a while. Of course it's all bull, DHs family think we live the life of Riley but we'd trade it all in a heartbeat if it meant we'd get to have kids. Good luck with your appointment, I hope you get the answers you want. I'm in the same boat as you I never got told about the grading and quality of our embryos either!

Hi ayah, thank you. Our fertility is unexplained so it is a small consultation that I did get pregnant hopefully they are able to look into why they didn't stick. It's strange I'm always overthinking and planning ahead (drives poor DH  ) but with this I didn't allow myself to think 'what if it doesn't happen/work?' Which is why I think I feel so lost!

I also wondered if my AF will be delayed due to IVF cycle or if the bleed I had at 9dp5dt counts as AF? It was lighter than my usual period so a bit confused and trying to work out if I will have another bleed over the next couple of weeks. I'm coming round to the idea of booking DH and I a dirty weekend away as I think it's just what we need but I have no idea when AF will show and it's presence would defeat the purpose of the break 

Xx


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## ayah

Dreamer we were pcos and then that was changed to unexplained.  Please dont give up hope.  Been tcc since 24 years old with brake for OH transfer!  You can see from my signiture that  it is possible.  

After cheminal my AF was two weeks late, but it can be less or more.  Hope that you dont have to wait to long for that dirty weekend lol.  Till then it will just have to be monments at home!

Ayah xxx


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## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Wow you all active cyber spacers today!!!!

Mandymoo. That's a long time to be trying and constantly getting negatives. Sorry for your BFN on the first IVF. Hoping they find more info to help on your next. Don't give up hope  have goals on what to change, also change stress and circumstances as much as possible. I know it doesn't take away the hurt, just helps to keep hope alive. Welcome to the group!!!!

Stacey good luck for your follow up. Ask as many questions as you can to get clarity and to see what the next plan will be and how they will change it. Glad the friend encounter was ok. I know that questions oh to well.....so when are you planning? To be honest I don't even know what to say anymore as it hurts me so much to lie.  But I do, it just feels more and more unnatural. Good luck for tomorrow....

Ayah I didn't realize you were TTC so long....but inspirational to see your happy endings  

AFM donor egg agency appointment tomorrow. Phew!!!! Deep breathe and dive in. Shopping for eggs.  And they ain't Easter eggs  I pedict will do the DE cycle in August but can't say. 

Night night everyone. Cyber and virtual hugs and future baby dust to all xxxx


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## Pudding34

Tiffany I hope all goes well tomorrow! I'll be thinking of you!

Pudding
X


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## Bethlehem

Welcome to the new ladies, sorry you are going through this. The only thing I can think of is that old saying "when you are going through hell, keep going!"

I know no words can take the pain away from you today, but you just need time now to lick your wounds and rest. In time you might feel up to making other plans but for now just try to recover and this is such a supportive thread to talk if that helps.
Good night all and thanks for the company.


----------



## ayah

Yes has been a while but there was a brake inbetween husbands.  Will be very hapoy to feel the game is over.  Silly head keeps say "oh but it would be nice to have three.  That was your minimum number!"  All I will say it would have to be another suprise natural!!!  Hell why can the brain think the exact opposit to what you want!  

Anyway still awake as been reading thread on the relationship issues foroum.  It was nothing to do with rekationship issues, but the mad things we do on tx.  I cant link on my  tablet, but it is halarious.  Crying with laughter.  

Ayah xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks pudding for the wishes


have a good day guys xxxx


----------



## Stacey84

Hi All, 

How was your appointment Tiff? I hope it has reassured you and will be successful for you.

Welcome Mandymoo - I think the minimum you have to wait is 3 months, but maybe each clinic is different, and of course you can wait if you want more time. Everyone is different. I've only had one round of IVF so far but would have tried again straight away if I could have!

So, when I called the hospital few weeks ago with my BFN the nurse said they would probably do another fresh cycle since we only have one frostie, in the hope of collecting some more frosties if the fresh cycle didn't work. However the Dr today has decided to do a frozen cycle next - I think partly because we are NHS funded and a frozen cycle is cheaper! I guess it's good for me as no point going through a whole cycle with all the meds and EC etc if no need. But on the other hand, with only one frostie, if it doesn't survive being defrosted it will have been a waste of a few months....
One good thing is that he mentioned endo scratch (I had it on my list of questions) and that he would recommend that but he isn't sure if we will get it on NHS or have to pay for it. For the sake of £150 definitely want to go for it - I read about a study of 900 and it doubled the success rates of the group that had it, compared to the group who didn't. Have any of you had it done?
He also said my 2 eggs that survived to day 3 were both grade 2 so that seems good.
So I'm back on the HRT (yay - no more hot flushes!) and have to make an appointment for endo scratch after the first pack, and hopefully have ET after the second pack, which will be beginning of June.

Hope everyone has had a good day.

Thanks again for all your support girls, really means a lot and glad we can all be here for each other

xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Stacey thanks. My appountment went well. I don't have much of a choice but to accept that I need DEs so just deciding to go with it and nit think too much about it. Am already emotionally drained. It is more than double the cost of a usual IVF cycle. Ouch!!!! And sometimes the donors pull out last minute or don't produce good eggs. It really is a gamble. She is looking for do donors and will let us know. It is still a 4 or 5 month process thoese months are going to really drag. We said our most important thing besides features is to get a reliable donor so I get BFP first time and they don't pull out. As we have been through so much. It is a strange thing but tbh, I am comfortable. I know this is my next step and must just take it. The months delay and being out of control for the process will be hard. I haven't decided whether to tell anyone even close to me about DEs. I think is joule be transparent with only close people and child if it works but such a hard decision. 

Stacey good news that your cycle is coming up and something to look forward to. It just takes one to work. Not the number but quality that matters. But I know what you mean 1 is risky and anything can happen but just do everything you can to get your body ready to receive it. 

Enjoy the night xxx


----------



## Photogirl78

Hi just wanted to ask if what we went through yesterday is the norm? We went for our beta for our 1st round of ivf with icsi long protocol I had prepared myself for a bfn in knew it would be. 

We sat down with the nurse for less than 2 min who basically said it negative, drs on holiday for 3 weeks can't give you an appt ring in a month not sure if you can try again or not, goodbye. I repeatedly asked about counselling which I'm entitled to and they just change the topic or say no spots left. I just feel lost after the bfn and I don't know what to do next! 

I have low amh and dh has low morphology and motility so we knew it was a long shot. I just don't think this is right clinic have had a lot of money off me and we have had good consultant care but been forgotten about a lot. Embryologist forgot to ring us for et so had a 6:30 am panicked phone all then they forgot us in the hospital and rang to tell me off after I had been discharged for leaving ! I just feel a little let down and wondered what other people experiences are incase I'm hormonal and over reacting?


----------



## ayah

Photogirl, sorry for your bfn.  As for your treatment iit has been discusting.  If it a private hospital I would complain the the company who own it.  If it is private care at nhs hospital then complain to PALS.  You canget the number from thier website.  It might also be worth getting advice from the **** or infertility uk (think thats the name).  You can alsowrite ti your consultant, explaining that you are happy with his care but have seriouse complaints about the clinic.  He will have some influence, afterall if the clinicgets dad reviews he will loss patients.

As for councelling you shoukd have been asked to book it at reception.  I would call and ask for appiontment for councellor and follow-up appiontment.  Write your letter first and if they say they cant make appiontments, tell them the letters of compkaint are in the post, but you can write another one.  Though you might prefer your DH to call 

I ferl very strongly about bad health care especially nursing care. It is uneceptable .

Hooe all works out for you

Ayah xxx


----------



## mandymoo12

Dear photo girl. You poor thing. That sounds awful. It doesn't sound normal at all to me. Not that it should matter, was it NHS or private? I've only done one cycle, so can't tell you how normal it is. But I did my initial investigations and 6 cycles of clomid with the NHS and felt completely uncared for. I had to wait months for appointments and just felt they were dismissive.
I had my IVF privately, only because I wasn't eligible for NHS and got my BFN on Sunday. I'm currently on my way to the clinic now, for fact finding follow up appointment.
I'm really sorry they made you feel like this. I think nurses and doctors who work in ivf should go on a course or something to deal with our emotions. I'm finding more and more people who aren't in our boat, don't get it. Xxx


----------



## Photogirl78

We chose a private clinic not nhs, had long protocol menopur 300 and buserelin. Had 2 embryos put back 2 weeks ago. The whole process was ok considering I was needle phobic. I was happy untill collection day but the mad rush hour dash for ET then the 2 minute appt yesterday has left me feeling lost. I hope we can try again I just want to know if it's possible.


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## Littlemissv

Photogirl,

Frankly that treatment is appalling and is unacceptable.
As stated above - get some complaints in writing and demand a review. Are they saying they only have 1 doctor?? Who the hell is reviewing ongoing cycles at this clinic while this dr is away?? It's garbage and they are fobbing you off so don't accept it.
Send a strongly worded complaint to the medical director of the clinic and demand action.
Also phone tomorrow and request your counselling and if they refuse ask them to send you a letter explaining why, as it is hfea rule that states licensed clinics have to provide access to counselling services.

Good luck with it......but also   for your bfn. There is always hope so don't give up

L x


----------



## ayah

Mandymoo nhs has a long wait as there is very little funnding and infertlity is not a priorty.  It is hard for us to wait, espcially as age plays a bjg factor.  But when you consider that people with life limiting conditiona sometimes have to fight for funding for drugs or treatment then it puts it little more in prospective.  The nhs cant fund our needs till it can stop funding life style choice illnesses.  Hard but true.  As for communication skills, that is down to funding too.  Only areas that have too i believe are research and cancer care.  Stuipid as effective communication saves time as well as increases tx out comes and satisfaction.

Photogirl if it private Then even worse.  
They have no excuss for limited facilitues.  Say you will go else where unless they discount your next cycle.  It all about the money in private "care" use it to your advantage.


----------



## mandymoo12

Ayah, I completely agree with you. I was just trying to show the difference between my experience with NHS and private, hence would have understood about the waiting times etc... As I said, if I wasn't one affected by a postcode lottery, I would have waited for NHS treatment and accepted some of the attitudes a bit more. 

But the fact that someone paid thousands of pounds for treatment, this is awful. But I don't think any nurse should be that dismissive either. We are going through such sensitive times and even if there is very little a nurse can do a little sensitivity doesn't cost anything. 

You are right about putting this into perspective. I visited my mum in hospice daycare today. She is dying from cancer... And there were loads of brave people there. My one wish is that my mum one day manages to cuddle her grandchild...


----------



## ayah

Mandy so sorry that your mum is so ill.  I pray so much that she  gets to hold her grandchild too.  Must make the hole thing feel so much more urgent.  My nan has lucaemia, getting near the end but hope she still here too to meet great grandchild.  That sence must be so much more intence when it is your mum and your first child.

I also agree completly with you re communication and that nhs care should not depend on where you live.  Manners cost nothing but we live in a world were they are getting rarer.  Nurses come from that same pot.  It should not be the case.  I have a very big bee in my bonnet that communjcation skills up dates should be madatory to all health care professions every few years.  We dont always realise how we come across or know how to improve.  That is why I feel so strongly about complaining.  Nothing improves if they arent told where they are getting it very wrong.  
Ayah xxx


----------



## Dreamer14

Hi photogirl, firstly so sorry about your bfn  

Secondly, I echo what the other ladies have already said. Absolutely no excuse for the "service" you were given especially as you have gone private and are paying for it. Please ensure you complain and let it be known that the treatment you have received is unacceptable.

I'm at OFU and we also use the satellite hospital in reading. When I spoke with the Nurse about my chemical pregnancy I was told I had a long wait if I wanted to go to reading rather than oxford for my follow up appointment (which I do so no appointment until 29 April for me) but she also let me know they had a counsellor that I was welcome to see in the meantime. I think it's shocking that this has not been offered to you.

I've had this discussion with others before. I understand working in healthcare means you have to develop a bit of thick skin but compassion should always be there. It might just be a job to them but for us it's our lives!! And quite frankly they should switch professions if they aren't to see/remember/empathise with that.

I hope you get a satisfactory response from them very soon as well as access to a counsellor. In the meantime here's a cyber hug from me to you sweetie   Xx

Mandymoo sorry to hear your mum is so ill  how did your appointment go today?


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## mandymoo12

Thanks for asking Dreamer. It kind of didn't answer any questions, but gave me a few things to think about. My cycle was successful apart from I didn't implant. Doctor says 80 percent chance was because the embryo was abnormal (which now makes me wish I put 2 embryos in, as he now says there was a good hatching blast, but wouldn't have been good for freezing... The other possibility is immunity problems. They can do tests but will cost 900 pounds per test. But... If they find out it is that and get treatment, there is a chance of falling naturally. But the immunity tests are still really experimental still. 
The funniest thing, was when he was explaining, my DH couldn't understand a word, so I explained it to my DH. Doctor, said I was clearer than him and he would be interested in me helping with lectures and conferences haha... We said 'let's have a baby first!!!'
I also asked him about my luteal phase, which seems short. I suggested perhaps I could try progesterone on a natural cycle to lengthen it. I came up with 2 pessaries a night from 2 days after ovulation. He thought it was a good idea, so prescribed me some tablets.. 
So, I've decided that I'm going to take a few months trying naturally again, but researching other clinics and asking questions about immunity testing. I'm not going to expect to fall, so going to try not to stress about it and employ the summer. Then towards the end of the Summer, I will make a decision to do another cycle or first take these immunity tests etc. I'm going to an open day at herts and Essex fertility clinic next Saturday as it's easier to get to from where I live and quite a bit cheaper. 
Quite chuffed that I was so knowledgeable about my situation. Think this site has a lot to do with it and the wonderful ladies on here... You have all made it so much easier. 
Xxxx
P.s. Thanks for the wishes about my mum. My fur baby came to the hospice and was sooo good. It's actually really lovely and happy there considering how ill everyone is.
Xxx


----------



## Pudding34

Welcome to all the new ladies that have joined us!

I had some really bad news today, my tests with Serum came back today and we need to take antibiotics so have had to delay our cycle for another month. 

The only upside is that I will have another month to lose my final 2.5kgs.

It really is the only upside, I feel truly devastated again, I was so psyched up for the cycle to start next week and then yet again it has been snatched away from me!

Does this awful feeling of bereavement ever go away, it feels like i get all revved up each month and again it is a let down and i am back to square one!

Sorry for such a negative post I just needed to share this with people I know understand how I feel!

Pudding
x


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## ayah

Oh Pudding that is rubish.  It all just plays with the emotions, like some tourture of the mind.  Hooe that it increases your chances for next month.     

Ayah xxx


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## Tiffanymi

Photo girl, I had a clinic that treated me badly, left after many IVFs but never looked back. Even though in general it isn't a good process there are ways to dignify you through the process. Iam. So much happier here. 

Mandy moo so sorry about your mom, you are going through so much I'm so sorry

Pudding sorry that you got some more delays on the timeline, I can imagine how frustrated you are xxx


I went to donor agency. Told here I am getting old and I have been through 6 failed IVF so our most important is features and fertility. She gave us 3 profiles but I worry as the family had heart failure problems. 

Do you think the donors qualification or eductIon is important? We said no, but not sure. Do u think the fact that the family has history of heart attacks or diabetics is important? Would you prefer a proven donor?

What would you look for a side from looks. This is so so hard!!!!! To choose. I asked for more.


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## Pudding34

Thanks Ayah!

It is really messing with my head, I get all psyched up and them drop down again! 

I feel really sad right now!

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

Sorry pudding that you are feeling this way. Maybe the delay is because the very next time you going to nail it and get a BFP and fate is delaying you, I hope so. I know that isn't factual and that still you are in the situation where you are sad and delayed. Life in the IVF lane is so so hard. It never is easy for us is it. Hang in there. You have worked so hard for this.


----------



## ayah

Oh Tiff that sound like a really difficult discion to make.  In my ignorance I had assumed significant health risjs would have been screened out .  It must be hard to rather if the history is significant.  If it is tyoe 2 diabtes or heart disease but it was the one oerson who smoked 80 day, drank melted lard and watched tv all day, that is diffefent ron there being more than one person, who had no life  risky style factors.  

If it is type 2 diabetes then healthy ljfe style factors would reduce risk of development at least until they are much older.  Type 1 diabetes is much more managable than it used to be.  It does put some limitations on thier life, but they are only relevant it they want to do those things.  Eg marthon runner.  Heart disease I think I would be more concerned with.  

Education. No idea. Highly educated people dont always get far in life.  Uneducated people may simplely not had the oppatunity.  

Tiff it is a really hard one.  Hell it not like saying we  want it to look like us so brown eyes.prehaps talk to gp if they any good?

Pudding hope that to day will be a better day.  Get those running shoes on and breath in some smog . Mmm forgot about thhe smog.  I was going to say loss those kgs.  Mmm  my enthusiastic pick up has now fallen flat.  Sorry.  Really hope that your strength will bounce babk.  They can knock you but they cant keep you down.  

Hope everyone else is doing ok.    

Take care Ayah xxx


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## Tiffanymi

Thanks ayah. It's rally tough. You never know if you making a good decision but I guess If you find the one you will know. Have a good weekend all

Tomorrow I have a birthday and plan to have lots of wine and fun. Life's too short. I have a renewed optimism with donors and now am accepting it and excited at 65 percent successful first time and third time 90 percent. Hope I'm the first time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!K


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## Pudding34

That's the attitude Tiffany, I'm so proud of you!

You are so strong and a real inspiration to me!

Def have a splurge tomorrow, life is too short, because we have delayed again DH and I agreed to have a naughty weekend, I mean food and drink wise for those with dirty minds!!!!!!! I had a few proper glasses of wine last night in stead of the little mini ones I have had as a treat for the last couple of months! We also had KFC for dinner it was lush!

We will be back on the diet on Monday but in the meantime are having fun and it's really relaxed us!

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

You deserve it pudding!! Let rip for the weekend and Monday be on a strict as he'll diet. But you will always be able to go back to strict. 2 days of luxury will help you to relax a bit and kick back as we have so little of it. I plan to drink a bit too much tomorrow  can't wait to just relax....and also going away I. A. Oriole of weeks so until the next one at least some real time. Enjoy though I hope you have a great weekend!!!!


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## Pudding34

Happy Birthday Tiff!

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

Hi pudding. Sorry I probably mentioned this incorrectly. I am going to a birthday party but it wasn't mine  hope you are well and feeling a little better today xxx

I am struggling to find donor that is right. Family medical history is putting me off some good potential donors but hgt


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## Pudding34

Oh sorry sweetie, just totally misunderstood!

We have had our naughty weekend, no gym, and eating and drinking whatever we want! I felt truly happy yesterday because our pressure was released a little feeling it coming back again now as I will be back on the diet and staying good from tomorrow, and I always feel the Sunday stress!

Hope you enjoy the birthday party!

X


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## Teeinparis

Hi all.  

Not much to report.  

TIFF, don't worry about the medical history too much.  We all die of something.  A lot as Ayah said is lifestyle and stress.  They wouldn't be allowed to be donors if that grave.  

Happy Monday all.

Tee


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## Tiffanymi

Thanks pudding and so so glad you indulged and pigged out. Sometimes you just need it and let's face it food makes us happy. I also has a good week but now back to the reality of work. This place is killing me stress and pressure and hours wise but I
Stuck here because they understand and accommodate  ivf. It truly does block your life rom going forward. Hoping to find a donor soon. Is true maybe I'm looking too far into donor history. Xxxxxenjoy Monday peeps.


----------



## bailey434

Hi ladies

Sorry for the lack of posting recently but I've been on holiday for a week in France with my sister and her family and my phone just wouldn't work at all so went cold turkey! Had a lovely relaxing time watching them all ski, including my 3yo nephew who was just amazing!

Have just read through all the posts, sounds like a lot has been going on! I've missed all the chat but hope everyone is doing ok today
xx


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## Pudding34

Hi Bailey welcome back, sounds like you had a good time! I think that a break from technology does us good at times but DH is not good at going cold turkey he becomes all stressed out and has cold sweats! ha ha ha ha!

Tiff, it does seem like our lives go on hold doesn't it! everything has to be planned around it, I was lucky to be able to carry on with my firm on a consultancy basis so as much or as little as i need because I don't think I could do what we have done in the last 6-8 months at my old work level, you are a hero for carrying on and I am once again in awe of you, doing what you have done so far even with all of your job stress!

Hopefully you will find a donor that you are happy with soon so not too much more waiting!

The months delay is feeling like a million years away! I think that once I get past Thursday when I would have had the Hysto it will help as it till be over and I can focus on getting started next month!

Pudding
x


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## ayah

Hi All,

Pudding glad to hear that you had a fun food filled weekend.  Hope that the hysto goes well on Wednesday.  Keep it positive, you have made it this far.  Just think what a patient mummy you will be.  You really are a stronger woman than you seem to give yourself credit for.  

Baily, oh that hoilday sounded lovely.  I used to love that feeling of being out of touch for a week or two.  Hope that you have come back refreshed and ready to go again.

Tee lovely to here from you.  Hope that you are keeping well.

Tiff, I completely get where you are coming from,  guess it must feel like a lot of responsiblity on your shoulders.  When we fall in love we dont get a medical history first.  If we adpot we are not thinking of that childs risk factors.  But faced with a piece of paper with not much to go on but medical history, and some other basics, how do you choose?  Guess you will just know when it feels right.

Photo girl, mandymoo, littlemiss, dreamer and anyone I have missed. Hope that you are getting on ok.       to you all.

Take care

Ayah xxx


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## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Bailey so glad you got some real rest and you time or us time. Welcome back!!!!
Hope you are refreshed and on a different clean mental page 

Pudding thanks for the words again  I know a month must seem so long. And the funny thing is when waiting a month feels like 4 months. Hopefully this will be a well worth the wait result. Holding thumbs for you. 

Ayah thanks, yes you couldn't have said it better. When you see a paper it is different as it is spelt out and you have a choice. It's hard. Hope you are doing well

Have an amazing week everyone....xxxxxxxx


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## bailey434

Thanks all, holiday was just at the right time and am now ready (and waiting) for my AF (any day now) and then can start counting down to Day 21 and the joys of all those injections starting again! ;-) It seems to have been an AGE getting here but I did finally!

Tiff, I was the same with looking at donor sperm but in the end went with what was available as you could spend forever trying to get the 'perfect' donor sample and still not be successful. Like Ayah said you don't get a medical history normally from a potential partner so it is weird suddenly having all that (and sometimes too much) information available!

xx


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## Pudding34

Hi Bailey looks like we may be cycling at the same time, I'm waiting for my AF which I'm expecting in about a week and then will have the three week countdown to start! we can be cycle buddies as well as negative cycle buddies!

Has your AF showed her ugly head yet? it feels like the wait goes on forever doesn't it!

Pudding
x


----------



## bailey434

Woo hoo, someone to go through the madness with yay! 

No no sign yet, due any day now but weirdly since my first treatment I don't get the usual signs before it arrives like I used to. I used to put on about 3 lbs in water retention and have to hold my chest if I ran ;-) It feels like AGES since I was doing injections....bit worried that I've forgotten all the different timescales for how long each bit takes. I'm doing long protocol again on Buserelin and then Menopur (but at a higher dose). How about you?

Are you still going to have an endo scratch? I've got to phone on Day 1 and they said they'd book me in for bewteen day 16-21 to get it done.

Have got a poorly old fur baby at the moment. 2 weeks of colitis poor thing. Blood tests done yesterday to try and find out what's happening. Eating fine though which is a good sign apparently. So that's distracted me a bit ;-)
x


----------



## Pudding34

Hey Bailey!

So sorry to hear that your fluffy baby is ill, it's such a worry isn't it! They can't really communicate with us to tell us what's wrong so when they are ill so it makes it that bit harder! Hoping for a speedy recovery!

I'm on Suprecur nasal spray for down regs and Gonal f injections for stims.

I'm also going to be on claxane and aspirin and perhaps gestone, we are still undecided on this, our private consultant advised me to have it because he thinks I may not be assimilating the progesterone properly from the pessaries hence the early bleeding I had in my first cycle, but it is an oil based intra-muscular injection so difficult and painful, not sure that DH will be able to administer them! Going to have a teach soon so will wait and see! Also looking into local private nursing to see if that is an option!

I am going to have the Hysto and the scratch, waiting for AF to set the date!

We are both taking the ABs and although I run the risk of jinxing myself I am feeling glimmers of hope that this cycle might work with the antibiotics and the new drugs!

I'm trying not to let my hopes get too high as I'm also really scared of how I will react to another BFN or CP! I've waited so long to try again what with the weight gain and now the ABs it just feels like the build up and the change of protocol and getting my hopes up again may be leaving me open to a big fall on the other side!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

Hiya Pudding

yeah I know what you mean. My friend asked how I was feeling about the next treatment and I am quite positive at the moment, but obviously I've not got all the extra drugs in my system yet!  

I'm going to have an endo scratch, claxane and also steroids (prednisolone) this time around, along with the normal sticky pessaries! I've got some Apimist+ to take too  

It's weird cos I feel more prepared this time (apart from for the endo scratch!) as know what to expect but like you say, I also know how desperate I felt when it didn't work....mixed emotions eh?! Also my family are more prepared this time around and hopefully will be a bit more sensitive/supportive  
xx


----------



## Pudding34

Bailey

Yeah you are right, the drugs do make us think differently!

The thing for me on this cycle is that we are throwing everything at it! We are covering every possible base and doing everything we can, which is important as I don't want to have any regrets about what I should have done differently or what test I should have done!

Also though will that make a BFN harder? Uuurrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh I'm just going backwards and forwards over the same ground I must sound like a total nutter!

What is Apimist+?

Pudding
X


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## ayah

Hi pudding and bailey.  Wow you both getting so clise now!  Realky hooe that the extra drugs do make the difference.  

Pudding your practice nusre my be able to do your IM injections.  They will need a  prescription.  Ask as they may be able to help, if only on week days.  There maybe a weekend service, which they can tell you about.  

Bailey hope your fluffy baby gets well soon.

Tiff any progress on DE?  Hope that it starting to make more sence re what you are looking for.  Guess it one of those things that you cant really know till you go through it.  Take care.

Hi everyone else.  Hoe your days are getting easier on you.   

Ayah xxx

Oh Pudding any more on the weight loss?


----------



## Tiffanymi

Pudding and bailey hope your cycle comes fast. Bailey glad your holiday was fruitful and amazing

Ayah thanks  i was feeling very down last 2 days. No donors called me. Just got a profile of a girl who is 20 and it just called me. She is nota. Proven donor but good direct family medical history. A little wonky hereditary on grandparents side and a few things but nothing major. Intelligent, cute, and nice. Worried as she is young and I hope responsible and won't leave the a IVF mid way. Also she is studying and not sure of timing. Lastly she looks like my family but dark in complexion compared to me. We do have a good feeling on her though and thinkwe will choose her. Never know if right. But feel relieved. 

This takes 4 months I heard but not sure. Will see. At least there is a light and today I was excited.


----------



## ayah

Wow, Tiff that is great news!  So it should be the summer holidays then?  Is she being paid?  If so and a student, that may mean she is less likely to pull out.  This could pay for a term at uni ?  Do you get to meet her?  

Sorry to many questions!  Just very hapoy for you!

Take care 

Ayah xxx


----------



## mandymoo12

Hey - just a quickie.
I'm at work. I've been doing surprisingly well since my BFN a week and a half ago. Part of me feels like those 6 weeks were a bit of a dream.
But now it seems everyone at work is pregnant again! Been staring at a colleague's tummy all day and she just caught me staring and said 'Yes Mandy, I am pregnant!' We laughed about it and big congratulations etc... but I obviusly notice it more than others cos no one else in the office had noticed it.
There are also 3 other people pregnant in the office.
Also today, a freelancer who I employ has just been through her second full cycle of IVF. She got a BFP today, so that officially makes 5. 
I really wonder whether I'm ever going to be the next one?


----------



## ayah

Hi mandy, 

Are you their manager? Must make that bit harder if you have to go through mat stuff.  Hold on in there hun.  There are no garentees but as long as you can try there is hope.  We have two ladies going through IF investigations at the monment.  There are now four pregnant and our token males wife is expecting.  I remember those times were hard, but it really could be you.  I watched girls have 1 then 2 and even 3 before my one.  Then i watched others do the same whilst i waited for second pregnacey.  

Pray that it will be you soon

Ayah xxx


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## bailey434

Hi all

Hope you are having good days.

Pudding I've put the link to Aptimist+ below for you to have a look at. It's a honey that is enriched with pollen, propolis and royal jelly and apparently can help with fertility. Thought it was worth a go. You just take 1 teaspoon a day apparently so am going to start when I start down regging. I'm going through all the similar thought processes as you it sounds! I'm throwing as much at this round as the consultant would let me do so in the same headspace about feeling like I can't really do anymore at the moment but still nervous. Must try and think of a plan for the 2ww....!!!

http://www.apitherapywellbeing.co.uk/wellbeing-range/apimist-and-apimist-plus/product/apimist-plus-pollen

Thanks for all the lovely wishes about my fur baby Bailey. She seems to like her new sensitive food so fingers crossed in a few days her tummy may settle down a bit. Blood tests due back today so we might have a better idea of what might be going on after that hopefully.

Tiff that all sounds exciting and promising, will keep everything crossed for you 

Hi Mandy, it's always the way isn't it?! My lovely best friend texted me on Monday with a heads up about her sister in law being newly pregnant so that I didn't have to first hear it face to face, bless her. Very kind to think of me like that and give me time to get my head around it. A very quick catch for the pregnancy, which is good for them obviously, but all the harder to hear!

xx


----------



## bailey434

Hey Pudding

Af has arrived so I start down regging on 30th April with a possible date of 30th May for EC. aaaaahhh reals a LOT more real suddenly    

xx


----------



## ayah

Great news bailey.  Time to brace yourself for the next go on the rollacoaster.  Praying all goes well!

Ayah xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Awesome bailey hope the days fly including 2ww 

Mandy I know how you feel it so hard. Hope you have strength during this time. Pregnancy is nit easy to see when you are struggling n

Ayah thanks. It's so weird DEs nWe have 5 pages on donor and some baby pics. 
She is olive skin I am fair, she is dark hair I am blonde although she looks like my family her mother had thyroid issues and high blood pressure. Her grandparent dies ok stroke at age 40. This is my worry. She is 20. Worried if she is reliable. But we have provisionally booked her. I am scared she is not proved and very young therefore worried in reliability. 

How far r u


----------



## Pudding34

A quick rant.........I just looked out of my kitchen window to see a woman pushing a double buggy in the middle of the road, it's not a quiet road, while smoking a ***! 

I know life isn't fair I get that, not much in my life has ever been fair but this has just really riled me up!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

Ooooh things like that REALLY wind me up! That and people not strapping their kids in the car, I mean WTF??!!!


----------



## Tiffanymi

I agree pudding. They don't know how lucky and what a blessing kids are as they have got them so easily. We will appreciate every minute.


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi guys, 

After a week of very stress free relaxing, this week on holiday hasn't been that.  Deciding what to do re: a new cycle here or FET in France has taken it out.  Family get togethers haven't helped though.  My DH's family is a nightmare.  

Any how, we are having a natural FET cycle next week.  I haven't managed to shift any weight unfortunately but we are going to give it a go.  Starting with my first tracking on Friday, 2nd on Monday before we head off.  Then I would think Wednesday for the transfer.  I hope they defrost - bit worrisome as all of it is. 

Love to all. 

Tee


----------



## bailey434

Hi Tee

Sorry you've had a stress week but hopefully now you've made a decision some of that stress has been taken away. it seems a few of us are at the stage of trying again now. I don't know much about FET in terms of timings etc but will keep every crossed for you  
x


----------



## Tiffanymi

Good luck Tee. Hope everything goes well and I will be routing for you xxx sorry you had a stressful week hopefully the next 9 months will be a good result of that stress!!!! 

Bailey, tee, and pudding are they trying anything different this cycle?

I wish I was doing mine again but with DEs it is a long process and you have to be patient. My biggest worry is I like my donor in terms of everythng except she has brunette to black hair and I have light brown....worried. But the ones with my coloring don't seem suitable. Decisions sections....


----------



## Teeinparis

Essentially, I just do another monitoring or two - they may give me something to ovulate or just wait until I do.  Unfreeze the embryos and put them in.  Then I will go on progesterone.  Fingers crossed  

You would think the decision would make it easier but it hasn't!!!

Tiff - you will work it out.  Have you looked in to the Czech republic?  I know someone doing DE there and it takes no time at all.


----------



## bailey434

I'm on higher doses of menopur and then having steroids and claxane post ET, and having an endo scratch. So throwing a lot more at it this time around and keeping everything crossed  

I wouldn't worry too much about hair colour if everything else is looking good Tiff, no-one in my family have the same colour hair as their parents  
x


----------



## Teeinparis

Wow - do you have PCOS or NK cells Tiff?


----------



## Tiffanymi

Glad you guys are putting everything into this cycle xxx

Thanks, I am feeling very unsure about donor. Not sure what's going through my mind...I overlooked some things maybe because she was a better option but I'm just not sure. 

Tee, no I don't have thoese. But I do have low immune system and take steroids for the IVF.


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all. 

Can't wait to go on holiday for a little.   emotionally drained  

How you all


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi, 

Just got back.  My ovulation seems a bit late.  Going for tracking again today.  

My body never seems to do what I want when I want. 

Tee


----------



## Pudding34

I know what you mean Tee, our bodies have their own ideas don't they!

I have worked so hard for the last couple of months to lose weight and this week I fell of the diet wagon and lost over a kilo! It doesn't make any sense does it!

Perhaps it is my thyroxine or my Metformin finally kicking in or maybe it's the ABs I am on, either way I am not complaining I just like answers and never seem to get them now I am in the middle of the IF world!

I am just waiting for my AF to arrive, hopefully at the end of this week, so that I can set the dates for the cycle, after postponing for two months I can't wait to get started!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi Ladies...
So, I have ovulated and start pessaries tonight.  FET Friday!  


I am so nervous though as they are just two day embryos and are only two and three cells.  The others were 4 and didn't work.  Prayers and everything crossed  

Love to all!  I am wishing this sunshine lasts to Easter 

Tee


----------



## bailey434

Ooooh how exciting Tee, will keep everything crossed for you!


----------



## Tiffanymi

Good luck tee. Wishing you lots of luck. Remember even if they are 2 day they can be the one!! Hope all hoes well

Pudding hope yours come soon as we'll. long wait. 

I chose my donor wrote her a letter and she accepted. So now the long process of her going bloods, scans, psychiatric evaluations to see if she is viable. Still long process after of singing periods, Etc etc 

This DE thing messes with your mind. But I feel relieved at moment. Just scary they can drop out anytime . Hope the injections don't scare her away. 

Good luck all xxxxxx can't wait for holiday soon.


----------



## Pudding34

Tee, I'm so excited for you! Good luck for tomorrow I will keep everything crossed for you!

Tiffany, it's great you have found somebody you are happy with and I'm so glad that she accepted, it's a new step in your "journey" (I hate that word but I couldn't think of  another way to say it!) will you meet your donor or does it remain anonymous? Also is it an egg sharing or just donor, sorry for the questions I don't know much about it and you know me and my enquiring little mind!

As you all know Bailey and I are about to start a new cycle and although many of us have been chatting for a while and are supporting each other in moving on to the next step we are very conscious that there may be new people looking to the negative cycle buddy thread for support after a failed cycle that won't be in the best place to hear our cycle chatter, so I have set up a new thread and if anybody wants to join in, comment on it or offer us your advice you would be most welcome!

We aren't going anywhere and will still be on the buddy thread so never fear you don't get rid me that easily!


Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

Wow Tiff that's good news too, I didn't realise that you get to write to your donor etc etc that brings a whole new element to it all, sorry I too don't know much about the donor egg process but am interested too. 

Might be a stupid question but how do they sync your periods? I just assumed that they would collect them from the donor and probably freeze them until you were ready? Really showing my lack of knowledge now!   It all seems so different from donor sperm but then again it is VERY different and takes a lot longer and is much more of a physical process for the donor!
xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi pudding and bailey. Don't leave us!!!! Lol only kidding just like having you around. Now I feel bad because when I was on a cycle I chatted to you guys about it. You may not have been up to it!!

Bailey and pudding, I too had no idea about this donor stuff. It is so so alien. In my country it is anonymous and donor eggs not shared eggs as we don't have that here. Admittedly it is very weird and feels strange and awkward but as you go on with the process, your sadness turns to hope. The donor and us are totally anonomous always but we write a letter asking her to be our domor based on her profile. My dh put so much time into the letter. You actually feel close to her and look at her baby pictures every day. Dh was even emotional when writing the letter. He put our feelings into words. Truth is donors are selfless they get minimal out and it is such a great person who volunteers this. You wish if you ever fall pregnant that you can buy her the world but legally you can't pay. Only minimal. I mean guys- all thoese injections, etc etc. I wouldn't do it myself unless I needed to. I am feeling at peace and now just hoping it works. But being more than double IVF cost I'm broke. Broke. Broke. Still paying off last cycle. 

Hope your cycle goes well and good good luck

Oh bailey, they sync  cycles by bringing us into the pill and ensuring the pace is controlled through the pill. Will let you know as I go along. 

Tee, hope everything going well and you easy for tomorrow. Thinking of you xxxxxxxx


----------



## Pudding34

Tiff, as I said earlier you don't get rid of me that easily!

I was glad that you talked about your cycle, please don't think I am saying anything by starting the other thread!

I feel like I have one foot in both camps at the moment!

Part of me wants to get all excited about the new cycle and I do at times but then I ping back to how I have felt in the last 6months or so! 

It's funny I was driving the other day and singing along to the radio, I'm a terrible car-karaoke-ist! Anyway the song was the Happy by Pharell Williams and I suddenly realised driving through the countryside with nobody else in sight singing the song at he top of my, terrible, singing voice that I was in fact happy! Does that sound really silly? 

Anyway I think that I will always be a negative cycle buddy as I don't think that the feelings I have had in the last 6 months or so that we have all shared will ever go away!

What is the sort of timescale you are looking at for your DE cycle?

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

I love that song Pudding,  I was singing along in my car on the way to work this morning to that too


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi guys...both defrosted!!!  They are now in . 

I have a great feeling ! 

Lemme know if you don't want me to keep posting here as I know it is in negative cycles. 

Tee


----------



## Pudding34

Congrats Tee!

I'm so glad they both survived the thaw and are safely back on board!

I'm so sorry if I have made you feel like you shouldn't be posting on here about your cycle, I was just worried about both me and Bailey starting a full cycle and should just have kept quiet!

We have all moved on to new things in the last couple of months I was just being silly I guess!

Pease keep posting and chatting and let us know what is happening!

I'm sending you lots of good vibes for your embies!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

Great news Tee, have got everything crossed for those little embies!


----------



## Tiffanymi

Lol pudding don't worry. I was only kidding  it's a nice chat this side whether rain or shine. I too with donors need to join another chat as well but I find the cycle chats too hectic and they have existed for so long you feel lost!!!!

Tee wow such good news. Wishing everything good for you in the next waiting period xxx


----------



## ayah

Hi ladies, well if anyone does not belong her it is me lol!!!  But just could not keep away, care too much about you all and really want tx to work.  It hard to move to another thread when you make such close bonds to each other through the hard times.  On another tread Im on we, have set up a secret ******** group.  We could also make a thread in the "chat for long term f f buddies " section.  Would love to keep in touch, but get what you mean pudding.  

What do you think ladies?

Tee, that is great! Sorry didnt post a pre best wishes post. Visiting mum n dad so busy visiting family and shopping    pray that these embies are stickers.  

Tiff glad that you happy with your descion.  Hope all goes well.

Pudding have you managed to loss that last bit of weight?

Take care all.  Prayers always with you.

Ayah xxx


----------



## Pudding34

Ayah the long term buddies thing sounds like a good idea! I feel the same way as you, we have all been bonded in our losses in the last couple of months and I would hate for us all to lose touch!

Tee how is it going babes? Hope you are staying cool!

Tiff I can't keep up with the official cycle chats, you are right they are very hectic!

I'm waiting for AF, and it is just taunting me now, day three of knicker watch, (it sounds like a really gross version of one of those nature shows on tv doesn't it!)!

Pudding
X


----------



## Dreamer14

Hey ladies,

I hope you are all well! Sorry not posted for a while I kind of had to do a social network & FF blackout for a while. The chemical pregnancy really knocked me for six and I just needed some time to deal with everything. 

I'm still not completely over it (this Tuesday would have been my heartbeat scan and I would have been 7 wks pg this Wednesday) but I'm getting there, feeling more positive and have spent a lot of quality time with DH.

Any who just wanted to say hi I'm back. I hope you are all doing well in the various stages/cycles your in.

And happy Easter! X


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Dreamer14

Good to see you back Hun!

Some times we just need a break from social media and Dr google don't we!

I'm glad you have spent some quality time with your DH, I worry some times that I have lost sight of my relationship with my DH through all of this "trying", he is so patient with me and I try hard to remind him of how much I love him!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Happy Easter for those celebrating!!

Tee hope you are doing ok

Ayah ** seems good, how do you keep private and anonomous though?

Pudding hope period arrives soona nd you are easy for the next step

Dreamer it is understandable. Give yourself as much time as you need and this chat is always here for you when you are ready xxx


----------



## ayah

Tiff absalutly no idea how to make a secret ** group but will ask the lady who set up ours.  The posts do not appear on your normal profile and members have to be invited.  Making a thread on the long buddies foroum is easy, but depends on what we prefer.  

Dreamer, glad you have managed to spend time with DH.  I was able to take hope with my first chemical, that I had got pregnant and it could happen again.  Well I told myself that and thankfully was blessed.  Hold on in.  It is so hard though.  Take care    

Tee how us it going?

Pudding first time I saw the nicker watch remark it did make me laugh.  I had not named it before but  so true.  Hope AF here real soon but that Chris Packem is not commentating!

Take care ladies

Ayah xxx


----------



## Pudding34

Ayah

Chris Packham was sadly otherwise engaged!

Pudding
X


----------



## ayah

Haha Pudding!


----------



## Tiffanymi

I also laughed at the Nicker watch comment.  

Funny times....

Pudding hope it has peaked it's head...

And to everyone else hope this long weekend was lovely and you are all ready for the week.


----------



## Pudding34

Tiff, sadly AF is still in hibernation, I thought i had some movement earlier but it did not emerge!

So we now see the close of day four of knicker watch, tune in tomorrow to see if anything has happened!!!!!! ;-)

Pudding
X


----------



## mrsj12

Hi guys 

I hope you don't mind me joining. I've had 1 full round of IVF (BFN) and now an FET in March which again was BFN -Never had a sniff of a BFP. Feeling so deflated, I used to have so much positivity but I think every negative chips away at that slowly. I'll try not to be a complete party pooper though, there must be some hope left in me as we have 2 frosties left and are going to have the transfer hopefully in May/June. Anyone know of any successful 2nd FET cycles? Would love to hear about them!! 

Hope everyone on here is doing ok and looking forward! xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Pudding keep looking 

Mrs j sorry to hear that. I have had 6 failed and although I am nota. Story of hope, I still have hope that one day will be my turn. Life and IVF knocks you, allow yourself to feel, but always preserver good luck xxx


----------



## Pudding34

Welcome Mrsj12, I'm so sorry to hear of your BFN's you are totally right the negative cycles chip away at you just like every month you don't get pregnant when TTC naturally, it feels like there really is only so much that one person can take, I didnt know where i would find the strength to  try again but I will start a new cycle in three weeks so I guess that that strength comes from somewhere although dont ask me where!

So my AF has finally arrived and my hysteroscopy and scratch have been booked for the 12 May 2014! its all feeling really real all of a sudden! I have another kilo or so to lose and expect most of that to drop off now my AF has come! and I have about three weeks to lose it so that is totally doable!

Tee how's it going my love? I've been thinking about you!

Pudding
x


----------



## Stacey84

Hi All, been a while since I posted so thought I would pop on to say hi.

Pudding - Glad knicker watch has finally seen some movement/action (not really sure of the right word!) Let us know how the scratch goes, I should be having mine in May sometime too.

Welcome MrsJ, sorry you find yourself here. I am due my first FET in June so not sure what to expect but I'll keep my fingers crossed for both of us. People do get BFP's with FETs so it is possible. Have you had/been offered an endo scratch? I'm still waiting to hear if I'll get it on the NHS or if I need to pay for it but for the sake of £150 I am more than willing to pay for it.

Sorry I'm a bit behind, how is everyone else doing?

Thinking of you all and wishing you lots of happy thoughts

xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Welcome back Stacey good luck for the scratch in May

Pudding all the best as well for scratch. Glad you got the goods today  now hope begins!!!!

How is everyone else. Quiet these days...


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi all.  

TIFF - how's it going with DE?  Too bad you couldn't come to Spain or Czech Republic.  It seems much easier there. 

Pudding - great work and keep exercising.  Can't believe your Hystography and Scratch are so far but yet so close.  Are you doing an FET or Stimming ?

Mrs J - I know it chips away.  My husband had a bit of a melt down even.  He said - this is so hard and even worse for you as it is your body but it is just a cruel process.  As for the FET - have you ruled out genetic stuff and immunes?  Apparently many labs get better results with FET.

Stacey84 - not sure of your situation with regular periods etc but do ask for a natural FET if you can.  Been so much more pleasant.  I did take a supple be called inofolic which I think helped.  

AFM -  all is fine.  Entering the bit with progesterone where I get a bit down in the dumps but am still so positive.  Symptom watching - but nothing really.  Usually my boobs are huge but not this time.  Not sure which drug does that the progesterone or the puregon.    Still hoping and praying .


----------



## mrsj12

Thanks for the welcome. 

Tee- sounds like you are in the 2ww. I have everything crossed for you, hopefully this is your time.

Stacey/Tee - no, I haven't been offered a scratch or immune testing. I did question both with my clinic but they feel that I've just been on the unlucky side of a numbers game. If this FET isn't successful hubby and I will prob try a more innovative clinic. I don't want to say anything bad about my current clinic as they've been lovely but they don't seem very keen on further testing etc. 

Thanks for the support Pudding and Tiffany. I'm feeling much better at the moment so fingers crossed for my next cycle. Should start mid may.


----------



## Pudding34

Mrsj12

Our clinic didn't offer us any further testing after our second chemical either so we pursued this privately, it gave us some unexpected possibles for which I am now on medication and ruled out some things that we were worrying about so I highly red commend it.

All clinics seem to have different ideas so if you feel your particular needs aren't being met by your current clinic there is nothing wrong with consulting with a new one even if it is just for testing to rule stuff out.

We are running the new medication alongside our current drug protocol and hopefully it boost our upcoming cycles chances of success!

I'm so glad you are feeling better!

Tee I am rooting for you!

Stacey, lovely to see you back sounds like you are getting ready for a cycle to start at about the same time as me! It's weird getting back into it again isn't it!

Pudding 
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Tee, we are hoping for you.....it will be so great to have the negative buddies fate turn around. Hope all is well and keep the faith. 

My DE ok. She went bloods and pmsychiatric exam. Will moly know in 2 weeks if she is ok. 

I'm going away for a few days guys so will say goodbye for now but will be back on line in a week or so. 

Tee really really hoping to hear good news!!!!

See u all soonish.


----------



## Pudding34

*Tee* how are you doing my love, hope the evil 2ww isn't driving you too crazy, I'm thinking of you!

*AFM* I went to a lunch with lots of work people yesterday, it was a it of a celebration so got lost of questions as to why I wasn't drinking, I've cut out the alcohol for the ABs and also in anticipation of my new cycle, an old workmates Whois also now working as a consultant with us like me made comments along the lines of that was the line she used when she was pregnant the first time to avoid drinking!

It was like a bullet to my heart! I just had to smile and say no really I'm on ABs, Of course I didn't want to tell them why but I had a good back story as I have had a lot of trouble with a crow implant so it was a credible story but hey ho!

She is a really nice person and although she can be a bit thoughtless her heart is always in the right place, I know if it old her the truth she would be super supportive but I don't want to do that just yet so just had to write it off as an innocent comment!

Pudding
X


----------



## mrsj12

Thanks for the advice pudding, I think that will be our first stop if this next cycle isn't successful. So sorry to hear about the whole 'why aren't you drinking' conversation. It's a pain in the butt and it's even worse when people then get suspicious of a pregnancy. It can feel horrible, but you're right, it's never intentional. If people don't know they make assumptions and have no idea that actually we're going through hell just trying to conceive. Hope you're feeling better about it now?


----------



## Pudding34

I feeling all out of sorts, I felt weird yesterday and woke up the same again today!

I don't know why i am feeling so sad when I have a new cycle coming up, I should've feeling positive and happy but I don't and I don't even know why.

I guess it may have been something to do with the "are you secretly pregnant" talk on Friday but it doesn't usually effect me for so long.

I got up really early and have been cooking ever since, it usually relaxes me but I'm still not snapping out of it!

It's just so frustrating!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Not looking good!  I am so angry!  Started spotting.  fML


----------



## Pudding34

Tee

I'm sorry to hear that and I know it's annoying when people say this but it ain't over till it's over sweetie, try to stay positive!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

Sorry to hear it's not looking good Tee, when is your OTD?
xx


----------



## Teeinparis

OTD is Wed but have been having brown discharge yesterday and today. Hpts are neg...who knows


----------



## Stacey84

Still got everything crossed for you Tee, don't give up just yet.

How are you feeling now Pudding?

How is everyone else?

AFM, had a crap day. Got my annual pay rise from work, and it is much lower than I was expecting, and I'm so disappointed after working so hard over the last year. My Team Leader is going to try and appeal it, but I'm just so fed up of it. I want to look for a new job, but it's not exactly the best timing and not sure how maternity pay works with new companies, or time off for appointments etc. Also, I found out one of my pregnant friends is having a boy, and another has her 12 week scan tomorrow.... it's just been a day of being kicked in the teeth.

Hope everyone else is having a better day

xx


----------



## ayah

Tee still hoping despit the spotting for the bfp.  Understand why it hard not to stay hopful.  Sometimes it just feels bfn or bfp.   

Tiff how is the DE thing going?

Pudding.  Hope you feeling better today.  Sometimes the old emtions are like a shopping trolly and go off in thier own direction despite what we feel we should and want to feel. 

Stacey re new job.  You are entiled to paid mat appiontments from day one.  You need to be with employer for 26 weeks before you can get full satatory mat pay.  Most places will only give extra mat pay if you been there a year, if they give extra mat pay.  Look on gov web site for fill details.  Still hard though if you need time off for tx.  Hope you het the extra pay.

Love to rest of you

Ayah xxx


----------



## mrsj12

Any news Tee? I've got eveything crossed for you.   

stacey, sounds like you had a rubbish day. Unfortunately lots of places are pretty tight with pay rises at the moment. Hope your team leader can turn it around for you. 

Hope you are feeling better Pudding?

AFM - I spoke to the clinic on Mon and it seems that I should be able to do my next natural FET in May, as soon as next cycle starts. It's good news, but I'm nervous this time. The last BFN hit me pretty hard, but I must try and be positive.


----------



## Teeinparis

Started with brown spotting/discharge Sunday - today seems like AF is starting.  So I think it is over....


----------



## Pudding34

Tee 

I have written and rewritten this post a few times and still cant find the right words.

Sending you big hugs and positive thoughts! 

Pudding
x


----------



## mandymoo12

Hi all.
Not been on for a couple of weeks. Still deciding what to do next and where to go and when to start next cycle.
Quick q. My natural cycle had always been 23/24 days from day 1. I am now on day 27 after failed IVF. Does ivf mess around with the next cycle?
No way I could be pregnant cos pretty sure I didn't ovulate as tried home OPK and never got a smiley face..


Thanks all

P.s. Will look at other posts just had mental couple of weeks xxx


----------



## bailey434

Hi Mandymoo

I found that my cycle is a little messed up after a failed cycle. It was about 5 weeks until my first period afterwards and then the next one was about 4.5 weeks, whereas before it was 28 days on the dot. Could actually tell what time of day it was going to arrive! I think it just takes a while to get your natural cycle back in sync after all the drugs/hormones and being poked and prodded around. 

So it all sounds quite normal to me
xx


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Mandymoo

I had odd periods after my cycles as well if it goes on too long consult your clinic but I wouldnt be too worried just yet!

I was told that stress is the most likely thing to effect your period and a BFN is one of the most stressful things you can go through, all that build up and then the let down your body and mind needs to recover!

Pudding
x


----------



## Pudding34

Morning Ladies!

I just got on the scales and had to call DH in to verify!

I have lost the extra kilo and a bit and am at my goal weight! Yay!

I will probably fluctuate a bit this week or so but I could also lose a bit extra!

I'm so happy right now!

I haven't been this slim since our wedding two years ago!

The last couple of months I have been so disappointed when I couldn't get the weight off but finally I am there and I still have a week and half to go!

Pudding
X


----------



## Hopefulshell

Well done you   what an excellent achievement!
Hope this is the start of a positive next journey
for you


----------



## Pudding34

Thanks Hopefulshell, welcome to the thread!

I've worked really really hard over the last couple of months and I am finally seeing the results I need to start my new cycle!

Seeing myself plateau out at certain levels was so disheartening I thought I would never manage it!

I see from your signature that you have recently had a BFN, I'm so sorry, how are you feeling?

Pudding
X


----------



## Hopefulshell

Hi Pudding 

Thanks - I've been lurking around the negative
board for a bit  BFN was rough as we all sadly
know but however much you try to be realistic
and prepare yourself for tx to fail it's not until 
you see that single line that it really hits you in 
the face!! I hate that 3 minute wait when it feels
like your whole future hangs in the balance!

I'm doing ok thanks (kind of) - good days and bad
days you know how it is  I haven't got my follow
-up until June so a bit in limbo but have made an 
appointment for me and DH to see a fertility 
nutritionist next week which I'm trying to see as a
positive step forward and me taking back a bit of 
control 

How do you feel about going through the tx again?
You've done so well to reach your target weight - 
guess forthcoming tx was a great goal to aim towards 
I did my first two cycles pretty much back to back
but had quite a while before 3rd one which was good as
I was a lot more positive for tx by the time it came
round  You sound v positive so keeping everything 
crossed for that longed-for BFP for you 

X


----------



## Pudding34

Hopefulshell

I know exactly what you mean, you think you are so prepared for a BFN especially if you have had one already but its never quite enough to fully prepare you for that slap in the face which is the single line on OTD is it? no matter how prepared you try to make yourself.

There are good and bad days after a BFN I had days when I couldn't even get out of bed, I was frozen, and then there were days when i was able to go out in the world and actually live my life! the good days get more frequent though don't they!

Its awful waiting for follow up appointments isn't it?

Have you had immune testing done? is this something you would consider if you haven't already.

Im feeling a mixture of excitement and fear in pretty much equal parts about the new cycle. My protocol has changed completely this time, I have researched every possible test and every possible change to the drug protocol and lost the weight, so if it doesn't work this time I don't know where else to go!

But I can't think like that I have to stay positive, well half the time anyway!

Pudding
x


----------



## Teeinparis

Hopefulshell - who is the fertility nutritionist?


----------



## ayah

Tee big hugs.  It was test day today wasnt it?    

Hopfullshell, sorry for your BFN.  Guess june is not too far away, but wish it was standard to be seen within coupke of weeks.  Sure it would help cope wiyh bfn, if we knew sooner whats and whts.  Hope it flys by.

PUDDING WELL DONE!  that is great news.  Weight loss is so hard, you must be really proud.  Hope it makes all the difference.

Take care all

Ayah xxx


----------



## Calladene

Thank you pudding for bringing me on here I will read through everyone's posts!
Hello ladies
About me ...
I'm 28 and married to a woman who's 34
I had 3 failed iui with donar so.
10% succes rates so still thight I'd try it! 

Ivf cycle march April and I had 7 eggs retrieved only 4 mature and 
The rest never fertilised.

Unsure why ... Could be that the eggs wernt quite ready as on my notes it said 4 possibly mature!

My drugs were 150 merional for 11 days 
On day 9 scan I had 7 follies but were around size 12
I knew in 2 days they wouldn't grow much more 

Fsh and amh are ok. Xx


----------



## Teeinparis

I am definitely struggling.  I finally got my full flow today.  I leave tomorrow to go home and see my mum.  That should be good but she has had health issues.  

Calladene - they often say the first one is just trial and error.  They don't know how you will respond.  I had eggs fertilised but not great ones.  So they should put you on another protocol.  Try taking inofolic and go get acupuncture.  

You are so young and just here as are a f/f couple so I think you will be successful.  I also think my doc would have upped my meds and left me for a few more days.  He won't even give me the ovulating drugs until I am 17 or 18 if not bigger with the lead egg.


----------



## Pudding34

Tee I'm so sorry, I'm sending you big hugs! If you want to talk you know we are all here for you!

Welcome to the negative cycle thread Calladene, I hope that we can offer you some comfort and/or ideas on what to do next, the ladies on here have truly been my lifeline in the last couple of months I don't know where I would be without them!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

SO sorry Tee      I hope that your visit to see your Mum will be good for you, it is always good to be around people who you love and who love you, even if you can't do anything, or they can't. 

What is inofolic? I've not heard of it? What is better about it than normal vitamins?

Hi Calladene, I agree with Tee about the egg size, I was told that at least 3 or 4 have to be minimum of 17 before they will allow the trigger shot and last cycle I was kept on the menopur for 3 extra days to help the smaller ones catch up in size. I too have been told that the first cycle is very trial and error and therefore went into my follow up meeting armed with lots of information and questions and possible extra treatments. The consultant seemed impressed that I'd bothered to do some extra reading around possibles
xx


----------



## Calladene

Tee what is inofolic?
I have accapuncture 
I take wheatgrass royal jelly coq10 and macca all for good egg quality.
I was on long protocol and I think my ovaries struggled to kickstart
On my afc count I normally have about 16 follies.

My follies were small and told to still trigger 2 days later !
I'm next at leeds clinic 11th may  so hopefully back on it ASAP!

How is everyone else? Xxx


----------



## Teeinparis

Google infolic - my consultant suggested it and I think it has made a diff with my cycles but I am most likely pcos.  They said i was, then I lost some weight and said i wasn't.  But it is meant to help with egg quality.  It has folic acid and something to help with insulin production I believe.  I did some research and my doc told me to take it.  I take another prenatal as well though


What is Inofolic?

Inofolic is a combination of myo-inositol and folic acid,  which improves the metabolic and hormonal disorders, regulates menstrual cycles and improves fertility.  
      
How does it work?

Myo-inositol is the fundamental constituent of cell membranes and is a component of  compounds (second messengers) essential to the signaling of different molecules such as insulin.

Furthermore, it has been noted that the content of myo-inositol in follicular fluid (the fluid that surrounds the oocyte before ovulation) is critical for proper oocyte development. In fact, the presence of high levels of inositol in the follicular fluid is a marker of good oocyte quality.

Folic acid is essential for cell division and proliferation and its contribution is very important for women seeking pregnancy. Furthermore, it helps to reduce homocysteine levels that are elevated in some women, and are a marker of cardiovascular risk.
  
Daily supplementation with two bags of Inofolic has clinically shown to improve the metabolic and hormonal profile:

    - Reduction of insulin resistance
    - Improvement in glucose tolerance
    - Decrease in hyperandrogenism
    - Reduction of hirsutism and acne


----------



## Calladene

Where do u buy it from?? Xx


----------



## Teeinparis

I live in France.  The chemist here just orders it in as they don't carry it normally but it is just over the counter.  Boots, Superdrug or your local pharmacy like Boswells in Oxford should be able to get it for you.


----------



## Hopefulshell

Pudding - with a totally new protocol and all the great
efforts you've made yourself you have every reason to
be positive for your upcoming tx  I think it's really 
encouraging when the clinics change their approach -
shows they are trying to build on previous attempts to
improve our chances next time 

Yes I would definitely be keen to explore all the immune
tests now - there seems a lot of talk about it's importance
at the moment. At the moment I'm an NHS patient so not
entitled to tests of this kind  I  going to request an endo 
scratch this time though which hopefully they'll be willing
to try 

Ayah - thanks for your kind words  The wait for follow-up
does seem to take forever but at least I've got plenty of time 
to get my questions together  I see from your signature 
you've got a little person on the way  many congrats - hope
all's going well and your feeling well yourself 

Calladene - sorry to read about your recent tx  I know it's not
much consolation when you're feeling low after a stressful cycle 
but the docs can learn a huge amount once they know how your 
body responds to tx so keeping everything crossed for you that 
next time you'll hit the jackpot  With the follie size thing - my 
clinic won't trigger until leading two follies are 18mm as well. In 
my case unfortunately I had 40 follies most of which were lagging
behind the leaders but they wouldn't stim me for too long as I had
bad ohss last time so daren't risk it happening again! I was v grateful!

Teeinparis - I'm so very sorry to hear your news  Sending you a hug x
I know it's a horrible time - just be kind to yourself and give yourself
time to come to terms with it all. With regards the fertility nutritionist
I haven't actually seen her yet so don't know how much about it at all 
really! Just googled fertility nutritionist and this one came up!! She's 
based in London though and I notice you're in France? If she's any good 
I'll post her details on here (don't want to recommend if not!)

AFM just waiting for follow-up and googling nutrition and fertility at 
regular intervals!! Hugs to you all xx


----------



## Pudding34

*Hopefulshell* I have actually coordinated my own drug protocol, I'm seeing a number of private consultants alongside my NHS clinic to cover all possible basis after my immune tests so really I am kind of like a site manager coordinating all the experts around the development! (I love metaphors and I work in property!)

We did our immune tests privately, if you want me to refer you to our private clinic for this just send me a PM.

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

http://www.fertilityfocustelesummit.com/live/

check these out for some more research


----------



## Hannah10

Hi ladies, 

With a heavy heart I would like to join your thread. I've just had another (5th) failed cycle and I'm feeling totally devastated. It was the most 'successful' cycle so far as I got 9 eggs, 8 were mature, we got 6 embies of which 3 made it to blastocyst. We transferred 2 and 1 was frozen. 

Our plan now is to try again with frostie. We have been given a 10% chance of a live birth with him as he was a day late developing. (I'm convinced he is a he!!). Plan is to do a laparoscopy in June, start meds in July and FET in August. This will be my first frozen cycle. 

Sorry for the long message- I hope to get to know you all soon xx


----------



## bailey434

hi Tee

Thanks for the info on Inofolic. So you continued to take a general multivitamin too at the same time? I'm just wondering if you can have too much folic acid?? I'm taking a general pre-natal multi-vitamin which has the recommended amount of folic acid in it but will try any extras that may help as long as I'm not making anything worse? Sorry for all the questions!!
x


----------



## ayah

Tee so so sorry    .  Hope that you can have a good rest at your mums.  Hope that she picks up too from her ill health.  

Hopefulkshell, thank you.  So praying that my bfn buddies can all join me soon.  That is why I keep reading and posting.

Hannah and Calladene, sorry for your bfn's.    

Hi everyone else.     to you all

Take care

Ayah xxx


----------



## Stacey84

Sending you big hugs Tee, and to those new to the board. Life is unfair and cruel, and we are all so strong for going through this. Nothing I can say will make you feel any better, but know you can chat, rant, shout, scream on here as much as you need to.

Well done on the weight loss Pudding. Although I've not been told to, I'm trying to lose a few pounds too, in the hope it will help. 

Hope you are keeping well ayah.

Hi to everyone else, hope you are all doing ok.

AFM, I have my endo scratch booked for the 14th May. When I booked it the nurse said I would then need to phone with my next period - I never thought at the time to ask what happens next (was at work so never sure who is listening!) I've never had a frozen cycle before so not sure of the process - does anyone know? Even how long roughly after the start of my next period is transfer likely to be (praying my one little frostie survives)?

Hope everyone has a great weekend

xx


----------



## Londonelf

Hi ladies - 

May I join your thread? We've just gone through our first cycle of IVF and had a negative result on Sunday. I've gotten more downhearted as the week has gone by. Was on a great cycle buddies thread but now finding it difficult reading about all of the good news, as happy as I am for everyone.

The clinic had given us pretty good chances - our numbers were decent for our age (me 40, DP 46), and I had 8 follies. Sadly only one contained an egg on day of EC which was so disappointing. But the egg fertilised and was put back in two days later. Was feeling great but the BFN came and was of course disappointing. I followed strong guidance on supplements and nutrition, acupuncture, meditation, stopped alcohol, caffeine, exercise and hot baths and am now just left feeling really flat.

I'm finding it hard to figure out what to do. I am very open to trying again, but don't want to leave it too long. Equally don't want to jump back in too quickly while my emotions are running crazy. We have two weeks until our follow-up consultation (the earliest we could get) but feel that every day that goes by my eggs are getting older (tick tock tick tock - damn that clock!). Obviously something went wrong in the treatment to only get one egg. I know the doctor was incredibly disappointed...so worried what they might say. I want to go into the meeting with at least an idea of what I would like to do, as well as lots of questions.

Sorry for the long-winded me-me-me post. I am so glad this forum is here and hope we can support each other. Thanks for listening.
x


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Londonelf

I'm so sorry you find yourself here but I'm glad you found us!

The ladies here have really helped me and I know the thread can help you too!

A BFN is such a disappointing blow and it is truly a form of grief that you are feeling right now, you need to allow yourself time to recover from this, there will be bad days and good days and those good days will get more and more often I promise. 

If you don't already maybe consider some form of alternative therapy like reflexology or accupuncture, I do accupuncture and it has really helped me mentally and physically.

The first cycle is often referred to as the test cycle as they don't know how your body will respond and they learn so much from it so try to see it like that and know that the next cycle will be based on so much more info.

When you go to your follow up appointment tell them everything you can, things you think might be irrelevant often can be helpful, any bleeding cramping, pains headaches all of that stuff all helps them to learn about you and how you responded.

Have you had things like thyroid issues or Thrombophilia ruled out? Have you considered immune testing? I found it helpful to have a focus after my last cycle, that being finding out why it didn't work, and hopefully I have narrowed down my margin for error for my new cycle that I am about to begin.

I can send you details of where I had my further tests done if and when you are ready to pursue it if that helps you.

In the meantime keep talking to us, tell us if you are having a bad day or need to vent or just want to chat!

Take care my love, it's always darkest before the dawn!

Pudding
X


----------



## ayah

Tee, how are you holding up?  Hope that you can enjoy some of the bank holiday weekend.

Londonelf,  sorry to hear of your bfn,  8 follies and one egg must have bern such a blow.  Like Pudding said, they can learn so much from the first one.  

Tiff any more progress on the DE road.  I remember you said it was a long process.  

Pudding have you lost any more past your target.  Ive been clothes shopping for size 14 and 12,  I will geadually throw out my big girl clothes till I get there,!  You have inspired me to get back to my slimmer self next year.  Trying to convince myself to do Race for life next year.  Hate running but it is such a good cause and a target to aim for.

Thank you everyone for asking after me.  Im ok thanks.

I wanted to start a off IF chatter thread on the long term ff buddies  bit, but if I do I dont know how to do a link.  Can anyone tell me how!

Take care all
Ayah xxx


----------



## Mrsball

Hi ladies
Can I join you?
I was on the same cycle buddy thread as London elf and my signature probably says it all.
💔
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

I am back from holiday and see you have all been very active and I have missed some messages and new comers. 

Tee, my heart goes out to you. I'm sorry about your result...I was hoping this could be your time. I know this really feels empty as you get another and I'm hoping that your time will come soon. 

Pudding wow you certainly have reached goal weight in a short time, you are phenomenal!!

Pud and bailey, if I remember your cycles have either started or are starting. Good luck!!

Someone mentioned about work, I think it was Stacey?? Not sure. I feel the same. Stuck in a job I don't want to be in because they let me go for IVF and maternity leave one day. It's horrible to be stuck. 

Hi all new comers. 

AFM I just came back from holiday. Was a really nice break. But now back to reality of the IVF, donor eggs etc and of going back to a job that I really find it hard to go back to ;( 

My domor passed the psychological and blood tests!! So now the next steps is to sinc periods when we get ours. This actually may take quicker and I may do a cycle July or August. 

Hoping this is the one. I have come to terms, I think, with using donor and now just hope it works. Prey it works. 

Holiday was hard with lots of kids Was nice but reminded me I am left behind 

Hope the week is okay all round.


----------



## Harper14

Hi ladies 

I hope you don't mind me joining just feel rather confused and lost after a failed icsi cycle in jan.

We were considering adoption as I didn't want to go through all the heartache again but dh thinks we need to try a few more times before we decide enough is enough bug I'm just not sure if I can find the strength.

Without boring you all, we had a pretty succesful cycle in terms of eggs (18 9 each as I was egg sharing) of that 7 fertilised with icsi and 5 made it to blast we put one back on day 5 and have frostie.

I'm undecided as to the next step so any advice would be really appreciated.

Do I do a fresh cycle again and put 2 back? If the first cycle went so well except the bfn then why would this be any different.

Do I have a hysteroscopy? I have a history of scar tissue from c section with my first baby (never been pg since)

I also have pco, high amh and gp has suggested metformin

So many questions and I'm sure there is not a definitive answer but any thoughts would be appreciated 

Xx


----------



## Pudding34

Tiffany, welcome back Hun!

Harper, welcome to the thread Hun, I'm so sorry about your BFN, I had a chemical in December and only recently have I started to feel a bit more like myself!

I can totally identify with the lost feeling it's like walking through a fog isn't it!

For future reference you wouldn't be boring any of us with your story so if you want to tell us more info go ahead!

5 fertilised eggs is good and having them get to last is great!  

There are so many reasons for a BFN not always related to the embryo, a genetic reason is possible but there are lots of other possible reasons, have you had any immune testing done? What about your thyroid is it possible that it is over or under active? What about hidden infections testing have you done this or if not would you consider it.

I have had every test possible as has my DH (save for DNA Fragmentation, we can't have IMSI on the NHS so all this would do would be to bring down any positivity we do have!)

I don't think there is any real answer to IF we just have to do what we can!

If you want any more inform immunes testing I an tell you what I know!

Pudding
X


----------



## Harper14

Hi Pudding,

thank you for your informative response and I am sorry about your chemical.

I have considered immunes but didn't know where to start, we don't have a loads of money to start getting all these tests done so I have been researching whether there is anything I can do as a preventative measure e.g. baby asprin/omega 3 etc. Im still early stages of researching.

my follow up appointment in in 2 weeks and I will ask lots of questions but I think I am right in assuming something went right for the quality of embryos I got. But for some reason it didn't work out.

I am considering changing the next cycle in some form or another and if anyone has any opinion on what is going to be the most effective (I know difficult to say) but I do appreciate advice.

here is what I am considering

1) taking metformin before cycle, I have PCO and high AMH so I am thinking this might help but then if egg quality was good and embryo lasted to blasto then it may is not an issue with the quality so not sure if met would help.

2) hysteroscopy I am seeing my GP on Friday to see if I can get a referral, I do have private health care so I am hoping that would cover it.

3) baby asprin different supplements - this is something that I am still researching. I have had 2 miscarriages prior to our birth child but no pregnancies since makes me wonder if I have immune issues but don't have thousands to test - any advice on this would be really welcomed.

4) lining was too thick so considering I may be a better candidate for frozen transfer

As you can see from above I am totally confused and not sure where to start and whether to start there is still that part of me that thinks adoption should be the next step but my husband thinks that we cannot feel any worse and at least we know we have tried his thought process is we do one more ICSI at current clinic, if not successful try another clinic and if not successful try FET. This sounds a lot of stress but we have the money aside to probably cover all of the above but no more and at that point we would be looking at adoption.

I feel awful as I know how lucky I am to have one child but the desire for another is so strong that I am feeling the added pressure of not being able to give a sibling to my youngest.

sorry again to ramble but after months of bottleing up I am starting to feel a little better x x


----------



## Pudding34

Harper I'm so glad that chatting on here has helped, I know how much these lovely ladies  have helped me!

I think you need to be careful of self prescribing drugs as opposed to supplements.

There are some tests that you should be able to do via your GP, they include Thyroid function and Thrombophilia (blood clotting).

If you have blood clotting issues they can put you on a blood thinner like claxane and aspirin.

As you can see from my signature I have hypothyroidism and I'm also PCOS so I'm on thyroxine and Metformin, one or both of them has/have regulated my cycles already so hopefully they were the missing piece!

Did you have any bleeding during your negative cycle or between cycles as this could point to a lack of progesterone, it is believed that I have this issue so I'm going to be on an injectable version as well as the pessaries this time.

You haven't said what your diagnosis is, if it includes MF there are loads of supplements he can take so if you want any ideas let me know, I won't bore you with them now if that is not your issue!

Our health insurance doesn't cover any fertility issues so check with your provider as to what is covered before you go ahead!

I think your DH may be right if you don't exhaust all possible avenues you may look back and regret it, only you can now if that is the case!

I love a good ramble, as you can see from above  so don't be afraid to ramble on if it helps you!

Pudding
X


----------



## Harper14

No I wouldn't self medicate I'm just trying to to research but I do have a feeling asprin would help me as I've had 2 previous miscarriages and suffer with blood clots during af.

Will my gp do those tests? I'm going to check with the clinic on follow up as I know I had so many checks due to egg sharing in terms if karotype (not even sure what this is) but I have had amh etc.

My cycle I started bleeding 9 days past transfer from memory does this mean I need more progesterone?

I am considering taking metformin as heard some very good (and bad in terms of side effects) but with such a high amh, and I had 29 tiny follicles prior to treatment they did expect me to ohss but I didn't so that's what makes me think the drugs and dosage was right for me? Is that correct if the embryos went to blast would you change protocol?

We were initially diagnosed with unexplained but then amh & scan showed pco and lap showed moderate adhesions & endo (which I believe was removed) make factor seems ok we had a few poorer samples hence why clinic done icsi but they said the sample would have been good enough for ivf.

I have spoke to our insurance it should cover it as I have heavy periods and mid cycle bleeding regardless of infertility they may want to investigate. But I won't be surprised it not being convered, does nhs cover hysteroscopy?

Do you think it's worth hysteroscopy?

Thanks again you are really helping. I can't see your sig as on my phone but when does your next treatment start?

X


----------



## Londonelf

Hi everyone -

Sorry for the silence since my first post last week. Went a bit mad over the long weekend. Threw all of my energy into cleaning and gardening! Not a bad thing I guess...

*Pudding34* - thank you for your kind words. It is so nice to know I'm not alone. I have not had any of the tests you mentioned (thyroid, thrombophilia, immune testing) but will add them to my list of questions for the follow-up - thank you for the suggestion. I'd much rather have more tests now and have a successful second cycle then wait again. I am hopeful they will view my first cycle as a test but also have my fingers crossed they can figure out what went wrong without many more 'tests' as I am fearful my age will prevent that. Obviously something didn't work quite right to only get one egg.

*Mrsball* - gutted to see you on here and so sorry for your disappointing news.  Hang in there. I felt awful for the first week after my negative test, but am finally starting to feel better. I've had a few cocktails, went to a pilates class and have been treating myself to the previously-off-limits hot bubble baths. Did you have any frosties that you could try again with?

*Tiffanymi* - I sympathise with you about feeling 'stuck' in your job. I feel the same. I don't want to risk losing maternity benefit and being able to pop out for IVF treatment by changing jobs. Although if you have read Sheryl Sandberg's Lean In book she would tell us off! I see you are considering DE's. Would you mind me asking your age? I am not there yet, but it may be something I will need to consider down the road.

*Harper14* - sorry to read of your disappointment. I know what you mean about feeling lost. The number of eggs you retrieved is very encouraging I would say, and the fact so many made it to blast. That feels really strong to me. I'm afraid I don't have enough knowledge to help with recommendations, but sending you a big 

AFM, we have our follow-up appt with the clinic in two weeks and I am preparing a list of questions for the doctor. I have tentatively put us down for a second cycle, beginning DR on 23 June. Of course that is pending the doctor's recommendation. He may take one look at the outcome of our first cycle and say we're not good candidates. I just didn't want to miss any time or the cycles filling up. We're going to take a holiday as well for a week in Mexico after the consultation, just to relax and get our heads around everything. And have a cheeky margarita or two while I still can!
x


----------



## Pudding34

Harper 

Either your clinic or your go should be able to do thyroid and Thrombophilia tests I get my thyroid checked through my GP now, it needs to be between 1&2 for optimal fertility!

I had early bleeding as well and they said it "could" be a sign of low progesterone! Sadly they can never really know! It might be worth asking the question of your clinic!

Metformin doesn't just effect the eggs there is a suggestion that the impact on the insulin production can effect implantation and further on if you get a BFP, again they don't really know how or why!

Our PCT doesn't cover Hysteroscopy so we have to pay privately for it but thankfully it is one of the few things that our PCT will allow us to "bolt on" so it can be done at the same time as the scratch rather than going privately elsewhere!

I'm having a Hysteroscopy and scratch on Friday with dr starting next week, I'm so nervous and scared of it not working, even though I have made many changes to my protocol and lots of new drugs!

Pudding
X


----------



## Harper14

Londonelf - I also have my follow up in two weeks, although our TX failed in Jan Its only now that I have been able to think of our options (if I am being honest its only the past week I have considered even going back on this rollercoaster thanks to my DH) but when you see the success stories on this forum and the strength of some of you lot its very encouraging and i suppose for my own sake i need to do what i had always said and try 3 times!! Eeekk the thought is enough to scare me but I am also slightly excited at the prospect.

Have you a list of questions to ask the clinic? I am just starting to write some down and see what if anything can be done different on the next cycle I am also hoping that they let me egg share again thats one thing I never thought about. I also get to find out on my follow up if it worked for my recipient which I really hope it did!! Mexico sounds lovely we are also away in 3 weeks, we booked it just after failed cycle and it was intended to forget all about all things TTC and enjoy our youngest but i have a sneaky feeling this will be the topic of discsussion (in the sun with some cocktails though!!)

I am sure there will be options for you they can maybe change your protocol etc, its so hard and there is such conflicting information available with what is best to do next etc i find it all a minefield!!

Pudding – I am with the GP on Friday so I will know more then I will also ask about the bloods for thyroid etc but they have never offered them before so I am not sure if they will do them but worth asking. Sorry i don’t understand does that mean you have to pay for hysteroscopy & scratch? If so do you mind me asking how much? Sorry if i have misinterpreted it. I have read good things about the scratch so thats def something to consider. How exciting for you to be starting treatment again so soon. I know what i am like once I have decided its what we want to do i will be impatient.

Fingers crossed we all have better luck next time xx


----------



## Harper14

forgot to say pudding thanks for the insight into metformin.

my GP really believes it will help but because fertility docs have never really discussed it I have not been too fussed but starting to think its worth a try if it will help implantation as you can gather I am wanting to do anything I can or at least feel like I am doing everything.

what dose are you on?

they wanted me to work up to 3 tablets a day but I have heard they are horrific!! x


----------



## Londonelf

Harper14 - I have started my own list, but also found this thread that helpfully details nearly every imaginable question. It is a great starting point: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=261901.0. Sounds like we both need to escape and take a few deep breaths (and cocktails) and come back refreshed and (maybe) ready to go again.


----------



## Teeinparis

The harsh reality is even healthy couples of 25 only have a 25 percent of getting pregnant each time and ivf isn't much higher.  

For PCOS google and ask about inofolic.  Might be a good option to metformin.  Ask your doc.


----------



## Harper14

That seems interesting is it instead of metformin? Do you need a prescription or where do you get ? X


----------



## Teeinparis

It's a supplement and over the counter but you need to be mindful of folic acid levels.  Some docs you it plus metformin from my research or instead of.


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Harper, I'm sorry to hear you are going through such confusing times. This happens often when you have a fork in the TTC road and don't know where to turn. Sometimes, you just need to choose a path and stick to it and forget the other options, but I can see there are many things to consider, it isn't an easy choice....hope you find the right way. 

London elf, I am 35 now. But I have had 6 failed IVFs. My reproductive system is messed and basically my body is of a 43 year old even though I am 35. The truth is I don't know if donor will work but at some point you have to be realistic and look at the end goal of that you want a child. Will me anyway. It was hard but I came to terms with donor eggs eventually....still is hard. But I know I need to do this. Wish I did it after my 3rd failed IVF. As time ticks on it becomes more difficult and I want to have a child as soon as possible....it is hard though. When you are there, you will know it, you will just know it will never work any other way and it will be hard to let go, but to give yourself a better and quicker chance, may be a solution. I have a 20 year old donor. Excited for fresh, young, solid eggs. Preying this is the answer  where are you at the moment?


----------



## Harper14

Pudding you seem to be very clued up on immunes and tests I am at the gp Friday so going to try asking for the thyroid test and push for hysteroscopy 

I have also been reading about Greek tests which test for infection does anyone have any experience with these?

Sorry I'm clutching at straws here trying to research as much as I can but it's a minefield with all the different tests and procedures hard to know what is right and I don't have thousands of pounds 

X


----------



## ayah

Hi ladies,

Wishing you all well. Harper I am bit the same as you. In case you cant read my signiture, ttc since i was 24. PCOS / unexplained / rather mature overies. At 31, DS after two iui on metformin too. 2 iui and 2 ivf had a brakedown. Never thought pain of trying again would be so strong, but think it because feel failing 1st one by not giving sibling. I had also set mind for three ivf, though we were told it would be icsi as only 7 eggs and 4 fertalised and only one good at day three implanting. Thought could not do it again and as we want to adopt anyway, though should jyst do that. Anyway put on loads weight, lost the plot and bfp from no where. Im 37 tomorrow . Still here as I love my wonderful bfn buddies and so so so hoping for babies all round.

So metformin. It reduces risk of early mc and mc in first trimester. So need to take at least till then. Irratic and high blood sugures are related to a lot of ill health, from heart diseasr, to cancers to ageing. Low GI diet will help with pcos and help reduce risk of getting type 2 diabeties, which is a risk with pcos. Low GI foods reliese energy slowly and help regulate blood sugures. So wholemeal bread or pasta, porriage, brown rice, nuts,. Aviod too much fruit but eating it with porriage for example will give a lower GI index for the meal.

Blood tests. Blood clotting and thyroid function tests TFT, are very standard. There should be no problem for gp to request. If they make a fuss make one back! Ask why not and threaten to complain. But I see no readon why not. Ive had TFT few times for depression and IF, all normal.

Jobs, oh how I want to chang my job! But like you say when you are trying it can be a diffucult choice. If we knew it would work next time, then we can hold on. If we know it wont work for at least 9 months we could chang job! Problem for me is I need to go back to uni to train as health visitor. Could not study and do ivf or be pregnant. Hope that all works out. Guessing it makes the IF just that lityle bit harder to bear, when work is a reminder not a distraction.

All best for follow ups and cycling.    for the hard days post bfn.

Take care ladies

Ayah xxx


Code:


----------



## Pudding34

*Harper*

After my last chemical I had two choices sink into it and give in or get organised and get more tests so I researched every possible test and whether it could be applicable to me or my DH tend our position!

I had the hidden infections tests done at Serum it's about £200 and very simple, you send them a sample of your AF blood, we got our results back in about a week or so.

You can contact them via their website and then they get In touch with you about all the possible tests and how to go about it.

The scratch is included in my NHS package but not the Hysteroscopy I'm not sure how that works payment wise I guess I will find out on Friday!

As I said before you should be able to do thyroid and Thrombophilia with your GP and then you can take these results to a clinic that does further testing like NK cell testing to see what they think minimising the additional cost!

Our GP doesn't know very much about IVF and the related tests at all so you will have to arm yourself with as much info as possible before you go to see them, I had to explain in very careful detail about my thyroid issue after I got the private test results as I needed retesting and repeat prescriptions it was hard work but if you stay calm and explain it carefully they may be able to assist you!

I started out on 2 Metformin a day and I'm now on three, I also heard horror stories and was warned about sickness and explosive diarreah but I started out on one pill for a week and then upped to two and then recently upped to three and I have had no nasty side effects you just have to take it after food.

*Ayah* we love you too!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Pudding - what infection did they find?  Before my last cycle I was on various antibiotics for infections so wondering and thinking those would have found everything anyways.


----------



## Harper14

Thank pudding I'm def going to look into the Greek tests read loads on it last night and for the sake of a couple of hundred pounds I think it's worth it 

Did you just email serum? X


----------



## Calladene

Hiya ladies ...
Iv not been back on much iv been busy focusing on other stuff!
But it's nearly time to start back on the roller coaster again!
Sunday is my baseline scan .
I'm feeling anxios as I know I have a month or so back on the rocky road of been snappy emotional and worried!
I'm not sure what the crack is this time !
I'm hoping short protocol as my ovaries struggled to kick start after been down regulated.
I only had 7 eggs 3 immature and 4 possibly mature hence zero fertilisation we think!
The next step is icsi tho.
Iv been taking supplements to help my egg quality .
The sperm did bind to the eggs but nothing happened!
How is everyone else ?
I'm due AF 15th may all been well xx


----------



## bailey434

Hey Calladene, good to hear from you again

You may wish to join us on this thread if you are starting treatment again http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=320760.0

Take care
x


----------



## tricia1012

Hi ladies,
Is it ok if I join in I've been lurking around trying to find a bit of hope and comfort I recognise a few of you on here from the cycle buddies . As my signature shows I have had two bfns   I have been really positive and looking forward to trying again , did loads of private tests and had my nhs follow up to book my cycle today. Was so happy until I got there they lost all my notes ! Told me to tell them what I want them to do and when I asked for the usual bloodworks request forms he wrote them down on a scrap bit of paper and told me " just go to your gp for these " I asked if I could have or pay for a follow up scan and he laughed and said well were not going yo scan you everyday!! 

He also told me to choose what protocol I want ? 
I feel so confused and unimportant after this appt maybe I should forget about nhs and go private completely but I feel me and my husband pay so much tax why shouldn't we avail of it . Have any of you had anything like this  happen  maybe I'm just over reacting? 

Calledene - I'm glad to see your cycling again soon I remember you from the march/April cycle buddies . Wish you all the best . 

Hello and good luck to everyone else  
Tricia xx


----------



## bailey434

Hi Tricia

I just read your post and didn't want to leave it. I was completely shocked by the way they have treated you, that is just not right!!    Is there any way you could log your concerns with the hospital/clinic or even your GP. Do you have to stay with the same hospital/clinic for your next cycle, if not then I would change based on their attitude. Sorry I'm not up to speed on NHS funding etc as I've had to go private but just because it's NHS you should still be given the best treatment and explanations otherwise all the money you have been paying into your taxes etc are going to waste through poor management (on their part)!

You should be able to raise questions with your consultant but then as they are the experts they should be providing you with information and clarifications, rather than putting decisions like which protocol you want on you, they have the medical training and it is their job!!

I'm really amazed at that treatment it's so bad!! unless I have completely got the wrong end of the stick.

Sorry I don't have any answers apart from if I were you I would be speaking to someone about how they have treated you (as in badly!) I feel angry on your behalf!!  

Hope that you find some of the answers that you are looking for and good luck


----------



## tricia1012

Hi bailey434 , thanks for replying I had my last two cycles on nhs with them and they were fine but since then I went private with the same hospital for all my immunes tests as were unexplained I'm always searching for a reason . I was going to do this cycle private but I'm entitled to one more nhs cycle so I thought why not we're very lucky to be offered three . 

Every time it go for an nhs consult it's a diff doc which doesn't help but today just left me shocked I had to go without my DH who probably would have gone mad but I walked out of the clinic and just cried . I'm really unsure of long protocol as my last two were short . He made me feel so upset I don't see how I am supposed to go to my gp with a crumpled up piece of paper and ask for tests?? 

I'm sorry to ramble today has just really knocked my confidence , made me want to just give up  but I won't hopefully ill feel better tomorrow . 

Thanks Tricia xx


----------



## Teeinparis

Trisha where do you live?  If near Oxford I have a TCM practitioner - given your age and unexplained I would try his herbs for three months and see what happens.  He gets good results.  I wish I would've forged ahead 5 years ago but .... We have other male factor issues


----------



## tricia1012

Hi teeinparis - I live in Hertfordshire about 2hours from Oxford , I've seen a few ladies on ff mention herbs i go to a zita west acupuncturist but he hasn't suggested herbs . I would give anything a try at this stage


----------



## Harper14

Welcome Tricia sorry to hear about your failed cycle it's awful when there is no answers.

That's awful how your follow up went, I don't qualify for nhs so I'm afraid I have no experience I do know that at my clinic which were amazing there were some woman there who transferred their funding to a private clinic can you do that?

I am the same as you and willing to try anything here is my list of what I'm doing next - 

1) gp today trying my best to get a referral for hysteroscopy (not holding out much luck but worth a try) also going to ask for thyroid test as pudding kindly suggested

2) I've read so much about the Greek hidden c test again thanks to pudding and I contacted serum yesterday who were lovely and now got to wait for af to send sample and see if I have any infections if so I'll start antibiotics if not I figure it's 250 (drop in the ocean compared to treatment) so worth a try

3) going to try some new vitamins  and speak to consultant about asprin therapy as I've had previous miscarriages before our first child it could help

4) at my follow up in two weeks I'm hoping the consultant say to stay on the same protocol as it seemed to work for me in terms of eggs and blasts I got but I will take their advice

5) going to have endo scratch

6) going to try and relax easier said than done but I genuinely thought the first time would work as we have no apparent issues and a birth child but it never and I was so shocked and upset. This time I am not hung to put so much pressure on myself, we have agreed to do 2 more fresh and then however many fet but then look into adoption if all else fails so there are options 

I am not saying all of the above is what you should do but it has helped me feel positive again about Ttc by researching what to change next time round

But genuinely I think it could be a law of averages and as someone said the other day you keep going until you get what you want!! 

Wishing you the best of luck x


----------



## Mrsball

*london elf * thank you. It really hurt. I never prepared for it. AF arrived before OTD. All over the paperwork it just says that if you get a BFN your AF will come a few days after stopping crinone gel. So I never prepared myself for not even making it to test date :-(
You're right though, the pain is easing a little each day now. 
We are booking a holiday for mid June so occupying myself researching that to death. 
We have 2 frozen embies - 4BB and 3BB. I'm booked for FET info session 7th August with view to to start on next period after that.

But considering I had 4AA put back in that didn't work I'm not holding out much hope :-(

What's your next step?

*calladene*hi! Hope you're doing ok. 
x x


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## Harper14

Mrsball I'm sorry that your treatment failed, I also had af turn up before test date 9 days after I am seeing the consultant next week and I am going to ask about this as I was also not expecting it.

At least you are already booked in for fet, we have frozen embryos but I am going to try another fresh cycle first 

Good luck x


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi.  So am not doing well and have lost hope after our failed FET.  That and with turning 35, my dh going to be 40 late this year.  I just don't know why I didn't lose weight and get my periods back years ago.  I just feel I may have left it too late! 

Any advice on how to shift 5 kilos -  I am just unmotivated, beating myself up and getting no where.  

Every seems to be having a baby easily and before us! 

In a bad place.

Tee


----------



## tricia1012

Harper 14 - thank you wow that's some great advice  I will def be trying a few of those , I'm a google addict and have researched pretty much everything to do with infertility I literally will try anything now . My mum is a nurse so I'm constantly questioning her but until you have been through this no one can really understand us . Wish you all the best xx

Mrs ball , so sorry for your failed cycle I know how hard it is . I saw a private specialist today and I mentioned that I to have had spotting and af before my otd , he said the level of progesterone must not have been high enough and has  switched me to the injections and a higher dose for next time . So it might be worth you mentioning that  to your doc . Best of luck x

Teeinparis - I'm sorry your feeling so sad , plenty of women go on to have babies through ivf after 35 so please don't think it won't happen for you . 
I had to loose 3kilos I put on through my last ivf and it is hard but one of my  friends has an online fitness support blog which is amazing she has lost so much weight and shares all her advice and yummy recipes if you want me to send you the link just let me know , it worked for me . 

Sending you big  
Tricia xx


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## Pudding34

Tee my darling, I hate that you are feeling so down!

I wish I could do something to help you, are cybers hugs any good to you?

You can't look back and regret things sweetie  your life has led you to who you are now! Looking back with hindsight and trying to imagine if you had done something different won't work and what ifs will drive you crazy!

One thing I can do is help with the weightloss!

Diets never work for me in the long run I fall off the wagon so I have tried lifestyle change instead!

Get the following apps, My Fitness Pal and Map My Walk.

You can use map my walk to measure the  calories you burn up walking and cycling and such and then keep a careful list of the calories you consume in My fitness Pal, having to account for it all helps you think before having that chocolate bar, but on the other hand you can see if you have earnt a piece of cake! Don't try to cut the calories too low or your body will go into shut down and you won't lose anything!

Keeping track of your weight and calories on the app will tell you how much you should consume and you will find it dead easy!

I switched milk chocolate for dark chocolate it satiates without as many calories!

I recently turned 35 as well babes so I know how you feel it's like a switch has been flipped isn't it, given the stats and all but it's not the end of the world Hun, there are lots of women on here who see success in their forties and the clock isn't so relevant for the men.

Lots of love babes, I'm thinking of you!

Pudding
X


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## Harper14

tricia - you are welcome i am also a google addict and i am sure sometimes it makes you worry more about things as there is so much conflicting advice/research but i figure anything that makes you feel as though you are doing something & feel better is worth a shot!!

teenin paris - I am sorry you are feeling so low, its such an emotional roller coaster but you got to stay strong and think of the positives, you are only 35 woman have successful ivf much later so don't let that deter you. With regards to the weightloss there is a woman at my work who has just lost 3 stone since xmas on herbalife it has completely changed her life i am not sure if its healthy when tic but if you are going to have a break before trying again it might be worth looking into.

AFM - been to see the GP and they have referred me for hysteroscopy yay but not getting too excited yet I am waiting for confirmation its covered under or private health care - ill know more next week.

also had some very lovely and informative emails from Penny at serum i would definitely advice any of you to send an enquiry form in, the detailed response i have had today for reasons as to why my cycle may have helped have been really useful. they really believe i should test for the hidden c (obviously as they provide them) but they also suggested things that i have  already been researching like metformin/asprin and could not have been more helpful more than what can be said about the UK consultants that we pay for service and so far serum have asked for no money or commitment of me.

i am feeling better just from looking back into treatment which is a u turn as until last weekend i really didn't think i would go through it again and now I'm researching, got dh back taking vitamins and booking hospital appointment - funny how things change.

its also nice to have you ladies for support as you know how it feels to have failed treatment - heres hoping we all have better luck next time x


----------



## Tiffanymi

Feeling so sad today don't know why  just frustrated at my life standing still for so long and feeling my aging parenthood.......sorry to be so depressing but really tugging at the heart strings today.  

I feel like I know I'm not a bad person, but maybe I have done something to deserve thus. Motherhood is not even a reality for me at moment. 

Will be good as new tomorrow, but tonight just feeling down that I have been TTC for so long and my youth is slipping away in terms of motherhood. 

Sorry to be melodramatic. 

A friend of mine is going through a terrible divorce and I feel so deeply for her as it has turned ugly. She has kids but no husband now and he has turned on her in every way. But she has been a sense of support to me and today she said she knows someone who had a kid at 48 I have plenty time, and that upset me. I know I would rather be in my situation than hers but I felt it was heartless. But I know also she is going through a lot and not coping.


----------



## Pudding34

Tiff sweetheart, I'm so sorry that you are feeling so low!

You are not being melodramatic at all or if you are I'm right there with you in the melodrama!  

Friends that haven't experienced IF, no matter how well intentioned, generally get it wrong! They try hard to be supportive and helpful but just don't understand the impact of these comments on us, a friend of mine told me the other week about his friend who just had an "IVF baby" like it's a different somehow! after 10 tries so it does happen! Oh super! He couldn't understand why I wasn't immediately cheered by this! 

Their hearts are in the right place but the helpful things they want to say just don't hit the mark! Take it with a pinch of salt, rant at us about it and forget it, it ain't worth your energy to worry about it!

Look at it this way, each cycle you have been through has taught you something new about you, your body and how you react to the treatment and you have learnt from each one, I know that probably isn't much consolation but it can be viewed as a kind of silver lining maybe!

Lots of love to you sweetheart I hope that tomorrow is a better day!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks pudding, sometimes you just hit rock bottom nice to have threads like this and you guys to pick me up xxx thanks

It's just getting harder and harder...had a birthday and it felt more depressing than anything else. 


Thanks for your support.


----------



## joshie

Morning all,
So I've just done thevtestbsnd a bfn. I'm gutted,angry and upset. I'm sure emotions that can only beunderstood on here. I know the2ww forum was my lifeline but don't feel Iike that is the place for me anymore. Please can I join here.

We decided to go through this this year so I decided on giving up drinking from January. I know that's not a big thing (I do like my wine!) But trying to explain to my dh its not just been a month I've been going through this but a hell of a lot longer. Its hard.

Anyone know how soon I can have treatment again? X
Teenin Paris, I joined slimmimg world in January and have lost 1.5stone so defo recommend that XXX/x


----------



## tricia1012

Hi joshie so sorry for your bfn I know it's heartbreaking and nothing we can say will make it any easier but just know that we're here for you and know how hard this is . Sending you loads of  

You need to give your body time to rest they usually recommend 2-3 periods between cycles but ivf is so physically and mentally draining only you can decide when you feel ready . I always want to get started straight away but my dh always talks me round into waiting a bit which is prob for the best.

I haven't been on this thread very long but the ladies on here all seem lovely and there's some great advice  

  it will get easier , it just takes time  

Tricia xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi joshie. Welcome. Sorry to hear about your bfn. These days are so heartbreaking. The best thing is to have a plan for your next cycle and to change as much as you can. I did mine on my 2. S cycle after bfn. You can. And I was in a rush. But in hindsight my body and mind needed more time and I woyldve waited 3 cycles. Thinking of you during this difficult time but know that you will keep on trying on knocking at that door.


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi guys. Hope you all ok. It was Mother's Day here today. Was quite a trying day. 

But brushing it aside. Hope you all well....


----------



## Calladene

Hello ladies iv had my baseline scan yesterday for prep for new cycle .
I had 19 follicles and I had ovulated 
Let's hope I get 19 with drugs and not 7 and most of all I'm totally ****ting myself incase they don't fertilise again :-((
How's everyone feeling xxx


----------



## Harper14

hi ladies,

after my positivity last week this week i am having a wobbler and not sure i can go through it all again - i just keep thinking why would this cycle be different, i think i would feel more confident if it was an embryo issue as they can change drugs/protocol but as my protocol seemed to work in terms of eggs/blasts its obviously to do with implantation then why should the next round be any different 

help.......

xx


----------



## Pudding34

Harper

Firstly, big hugs Hun, I've had my share of fears that I can't go through it all again!

So many times I have heard that the first cycle is the "test" cycle and from that they learn a lot more about your body and how you react to the drugs and the treatment.

My upcoming cycle is going to be completely different from first, the drug regime has changed, I've had the scratch and I have been making changes to myself including accupuncture and weightloss, DH has been on Proxeed and other supplements and we have both been eating more healthily.

I know it is hard my love, the stress and the pain and the drugs and the let down when it doesn't work is so difficult but if you have made changes to your cycle and learnt from last time there is every chance that a new cycle could work.

It sounds like it's the emotional side that you are most worried about, I constantly wonder what I will do if it's a BFN this time or god forbid another chemical and the honest answer is I just don't know but I do know I have to give it a try.

You have been strong so far babes and whatever you decide to do whether you go ahead or not you will survive it!

Pudding
X


----------



## Harper14

thanks pudding i am just having one of those days where i need answers and they are not to be had!!

also hate not knowing what is the issue or how to solve it.

the good news is i have been referred to private hospital tomorrow night so i am hoping they may do a hysteroscopy and then i have my follow up next week then we are abroad for 2 weeks so hopefully that gives me some time to seriously think what i want to do 

hope you are ok? x


----------



## Stacey84

Hi All, just trying to catch up with everyone. Welcome Tricia, Joshie and anyone else new to the board, sorry that you find yourself here. Give yourself time to heal and grieve. I bled before OTD too, and I know my embie obviously didn't implant but I still think of what could have been and going through a BFN in this way is like grieving.

Tiff and Tee, I'm sorry that you are having a rough time just now. It's so hard and tiring trying to be positive all the time and sometimes we all have days when we just want to sit and mope and cry. Life has been so unfair to all of us, but I really hope that we all get what we want soon enough. Tee, I use the fitness pal app that Pudding mentioned and I love it. It has helped me lose a few pounds since my last tx.

Harper, I think we were cycle buddies at the start of the year, I'm sorry for your BFN but glad you are giving it another shot.

Pudding, how was the scratch? I have mine on Wednesday.

AFM, got my scratch on Wednesday and to be honest, don't really know what happens after that! At my follow up app after my first failed attempt, the doctor just told me to go back on the HRT and call them with my first period to arrange endo scratch, which I did and have booked on for Wednesday. I tried calling the clinic the other week to find out what happens after that but the nurse I spoke to didn't seem very sure and just said that I will need to phone again with my next period - does anyone know what happens next ? I've got one frostie that they will be using, but they have never explained how a FET works, what meds I'll need to take, how long for, when transfer will be etc. I know everyone is different but can anyone give me a general idea of how an FET works?

xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Harper, I know it's difficult and scary as time goes by. But it is better to carry in and have hope as one day it will be all of our turn. Pudding is right, they do discover more and more each cycle and are able to change things up. Are they doing anything different to help implantation issues? All the best!!

Stacey. Thanks for the wishes, welcome back. I've never had FET and can't advise on that. Never had enough eggs to do it but hoping all hoes well for you

Bailey and pudding, where are you guys in the cycle or has it not start. Who else is on?

Tee, hope you are doing okay as well

AFM, I'm not letting TTC get me down. I'm going to make this donor cycle count and get a BFP. Well hopefully!!!!

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## bailey434

Hey Tiff

Hope that you are ok, I'm liking the positive attitude about your donor cycle, it all helps I'm sure. I saw all of the messages all over ******** on Sunday about mothers day....it's hard isn't it....  

I've got my baseline scan on Friday and then start stimming after that. Currently coping with quite a heavy AF from down regging and don't know if it's heavier due to having the endo scratch this time around? 

Where are you at with your donor cycle? Have to get in sync with her?
Big hugs
xx


----------



## Pudding34

*Stacey * I had an FET in December and I can only tell you how mine worked as I can see on the forums that different clinics do things differently.

I down regged for two weeks like a regular cycle and then took progynova to thicken up my lining starting slowly and building up to more and more pills. I had the monitoring scans like a fresh cycle and when everything was good and thick they booked me on for the transfer.

I know there are different ways of freezing and that the embies are frozen on different days so it will depend on when your embies were frozen as to how they will be thawed before transfer.

I had three blasts on ice and the first two were thawed on the morning of my transfer, one collapsed so they had to thaw the third!

Sadly my cycle resulted in a chemical and so I have looked into the reasons why and made a load of changes to my drug protocol for the upcoming cycle, we had implantation begin though so I know that it can happen I just need to keep it going!

I had an Hysteroscopy at the same time as my scratch so I was out out under a general and don't remember any of it but Isis have quite a lot of cramping for the next few days it's easing off now but i should get my downreg bleed next week so it's hard to tell if it's cramping from the scratch or AF showing her ugly head early! They also warned me that my AF might be a but heavier this month.

*Tiff* I just started my downreg nasal spray this morning after my scratch on Friday so it's all systems go here. I'm excited and scared I equal measures!

How's your cycle going? do you have dates yet?

*Harper *how are you doing today babes? Better I hope!

Big hugs to you all!

Pudding
X


----------



## Harper14

Hi pudding yes I'm feeling better today it's just such an emotional roller coaster!

I've been to see my gynaecologist today and we are going to try and get hysteroscopy covered under health insurance - not holding my breath but worth a try!

Next step is to send sample off for Greek test and then take things from there I have my consultation follow up about failed cycle next thurs so we'll see what comes of that then going to enjoy our holiday in the sun & try to relax!

My questions that I've been researching

1) was my lining too thick 15mm at ec
2) was the transfer a problem as embryo had to be messed around with and no flash seen
3) is my pco causing a problem? Serum seem to think I should def be on 3 months of metformin prior to cycle
4) will scratch help?

Also just out of interest my gyna told me today I have a tilted pelvis first I've heard of this can that cause issues?

Hope all you lovely ladies are ok x


----------



## Tiffanymi

Bailey and pudding, sounds like you guys are nearly good to go. Bailey not sure about the blood as I have never done the scratch. 

donor all set to start pill. Will be on it for 2 weeks and then will synch to mine and I think as early as 4 weeks time or. 3 weeks she may start her cycle!!!! I could be transferring mid June. Doctor said all tests are very good the only thing is something was high meaning they can't stimulate her too much....do you know what this could be and the impact?

Didn't think it would be this soon!!!! But glad. 

I am not worried anymore about donor eggs just want it to work that's all.


----------



## Pudding34

*Tiff* could your donor be at risk of OHSS my understanding is they have to watch the stimulation on women who are at risk of this!

*Harper *so glad you are feeling a bit better, there are up days and down ones you have to stay positive although I know it is easy for me to say not so easy to do!

It's good that you have out together a list of questions as it's so easy to forget what you wanted to ask!

Pudding
X


----------



## Calladene

Hello ladies
Iv had my scan and I'm just waiting for AF
Iv been kept on long protocol and they have doubles my dose of stims to 300.

I'm nervous .
Xx


----------



## bailey434

Hey Calladene

Your regime sounds a bit like mine although they haven't decided whether to put me on 300 or 375 of menopur this time yet. Have my baseline scan on Friday so they will tell me then how much I should start injecting. Are they giving you any other drugs at all? I'm on clexane and prednisalone after EC to help with implantation hopefully.  Are you taking any supplements to try and help with egg quality?
xx


----------



## surfgirl82

Hi ladies, would you mind if I join you? We had our first ivf which was a bfn 3 weeks ago. The clinic said it was a textbook cycle & we had 3 top grade blasts (only 1 transferred). We are hopefully doing fet in June. I'm just feeling very lost & raw at the mo   Hope you're all well today xx


----------



## bailey434

Hi Surfgirl

Welcome to the thread and I'm so sorry to hear your news, we all empathise with the feelings of being lost and raw after an unsuccesful cycle. Be kind to yourself while you get your head around it all  

Take care
xx


----------



## Stacey84

Evening ladies, 

Welcome Surfgirl, sorry for your news. It's good you have top grade blasts to use for a FET and can do it so quickly. my BFN was in February and only now on the road to FET.

Thanks for the info pudding, I had my endo scratch today and got the details of my protocol so feeling a bit better now. Just got to hope my one little embie survives.

I'm glad you're feeling more positive now Tiff, I really hope this works for you, sending you lots of good vibes.

I hope your scan goes well on Friday Bailey.

Harper I also have a tilted womb, so I had a mock transfer before my first go at IVF. They didn't tell me it would cause any issues, but just did the mock transfer in case they needed to use any different equipment etc. I hope you enjoy your holiday when it comes.

Hi to everyone else

xx


----------



## Calladene

Stacey and harper I have a tilted womb too ! Acute anteflex lol I also have narrow cervix however it's been dialated now!!!

Bailey I'm on buserelin merional and prontagest injections to prevent miss carriage 

Surf girl i feel your pain :-(
Xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Welcome all new comers. Xxxx


----------



## surfgirl82

Thank you for the warm welcome, I hope you all got some sunshine today   Have you anything nice planned for the weekend? 

Stacey it must of felt such a long wait from feb to now, I hope things are moving at the moment 

Calledene how are you doing? I hope you're ok  

I was doing as well as you can do after a failed ivf but seem to of hit a bump in the road. Feeling so upset it gives me a knot in my stomach somedays. I think our life just feels so up in the air with no clear end point that it gets heavy to carry at times. One good thing is we're going on holiday next sat so that'll be good   xx


----------



## Pudding34

Surfgirl

I know exactly what you mean, you have some good days and them crash back down, I had times when I couldn't get out of bed or I would get up and make it only as far as the kitchen where I would be most of the day in my PJs!

Going away on holiday is an excellent idea, it really helped me and you will find that a change of scene really helps!

I'm not ad advocating this idea as it isn't for everybody but while we were on our getaway we decided to get another puppy and it was a great idea, it's still hard work and he drives me crazy at times but he has been a great distraction and is always there with a cuddle when I feel sad or stressed out!

I got out in the garden and got three lots of washing out on the line, washing always smells so much lovelier when it is line dried instead of in the machine or hung up indoors doesn't it, cheers me up! Sounds crazy doesn't it.............maybe I am a little crazy but in a good way! 

Pudding
X


----------



## Stacey84

Thanks Surfgirl, it has felt a long time, and I'm just scared that if my one embie doesn't survive being defrosted, it's going to have been a waste of a few months, and I'm not sure how long I will have to wait to have another fresh cycle if this FET doesn't work. I'm going to have to think about the timings of a next attempt too, as my brother gets married next July and I wouldn't want to be 9 months pregnant then! So I think that may mean I would have to hold off a couple months more, which is frustrating coz I don't want to wait any longer than necessary, but at the same time, wouldn't want to be in a position where I could potentially be about to pop and maybe miss my brother's big day. But it's all ifs and whens and hopefully this turn will work so I won't need to worry about it!

I think we all have days where something that to someone else would seem so small, can totally set us off, and just make you want to curl up and cry. I find it hard when people who know about my situation do/say something insensitive and I just want to shout at them, think before you speak! I have a particular friend who has 2 kids and is pregnant with her 3rd who seems to be good at saying the wrong thing. 
I was out with 2 workmates last night for dinner and one of them is quite new to the team and asked if I wanted kids, so I just said my usual 'maybe one day, something for the future' type statement. It's one of those things, that unless you're in this situation, you just don't think that a question like that can be so painful. 

I hope everyone has a good weekend ahead of them and that the sun shines for everyone

xx


----------



## Digby74

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to this thread, but wondered if anyone could help with some advice or had similar experience. We had a cancelled IVF cycle 3 weeks ago and I've still not had a withdrawal bleed, so have no idea where I am in my cycle and so no idea of when we can try again. Cycle was cancelled on day 8 of stims (poor response), I had a bit of brownish stuff (soz TMI!) 10 days after stopping drugs, but not a proper bleed. Since then I've been showing some signs of ovulating with a lot of EWCM over several days (soz again!), which is odd if I haven't had withdrawal bleed isn't it. I'm normally very regular so bit confused and getting me down as would really like to know when we can try again. Not rung the clinic yet as I never find them very helpful over the phone, but will have to get round to it soon I suppose.

Hope everone on here is doing ok, this is such a hard place to be. Gutting enough to have a cycle cancelled before ec but worse again to go through it all and get a negative. Big hugs for everyone  . I guess we just have to keep looking forward.


----------



## Calladene

Hi digby I'm bit too sure as I'm also having a messed up cycle however I do know iv ovulated for definite as it showed it on my baseline scan 7 days ago.
I'm on day 31 (28 always normally )
Iv had a bleed from the cancelled ivf 18 April wich suprised me as was not mega bad.
I feel sluggish and felt like iv been due on for a week now!
As soon as it comes I can start my cycle again!!!
In April it was cancelled I had failed fertilisation with super sperm lol 
I'm so nervous as this could happen again and I'll never have my bio baby :-(
I'm hoping it's the fact my eggs were only possibley mature according to my notes!!!
Xxx


----------



## Calladene

Surf girl 
I'm not too bad just anxious nervouse and generally ****tin my pants lol!!!
I wish my AF would hurry so I can start agin.
How r u?

How's everyone else xxx


----------



## Harper14

hey everyone I have been having a down week to the point where i suggested to my dh that we just go down the adoption route - i really dont think i can deal with the uncertinity on another IVF gamble but then today i found out an old collegue who has been ttc for over 4 years and numerous attempts at IVF is now pregnant with twins - I'm really happy for her as i know how much of a struggle its been - to think she has been trying since we have had a bc and then our own battles its lovely to see it work out for her.

i guess its the voice of reason that keeps telling me if it didn't work first time with blasts why should it second time ahhh i torment myself, I've got follow up with consultant this thursday and i guess they might help me make my decision depending on what they tell me.

im a nightmare one min I am going down adoption route (which i would still like to do at some point as feel very strongly towards it) and then i am thinking i need to pursue this route whilst i still have age on my side

sorry for the rant

hope everyone else is well it looks like some of you are really getting on with your cycles now which is great and can't wait to see some success stories xxx


----------



## Love London

Hi ladies

Can I join this feed? I'm a DE lady and have had a BFN!

I've now had 3 BFN's in total. I've stopped taking all the drugs, but we have decided to start treatment again after my next period. so its likely to be end of June before I join the 2ww club ... again  

I feel kind of numb at the moment, If I was at home (London) with my husband, I'd have opened up and cried with him but I'm currently staying with family on the Wirral. So I have a little sob at night and smile as much as poss during the day. DH picking me up this Friday.

I hoped that I would be BFP so I could face my brother in-laws 22wks (unplanned) pregnant girlfriend in a better frame of mind. My friend said I should not care about their pregnancy, and instead of running all these different scenario's through my mind, they should accept what emotional state I am in. They will either be understanding or not ... If its the latter, then they can take a hike. I am finding the whole situation daunting.

Should I arrange a meal out with them, to face her pregnancy head on? I don't know what to do!

I've been reading through the posts and you are all going through hell


----------



## bailey434

Hi Love London

So sorry to hear your news  

It must be hard being away from home at the moment and having to put a face on during the day. hope that you and your DH manage to spend some quality time together this weekend helping each other through this rough time.

With regard to your brother-in-law & girlfriend, when will you see them? I would say (and this is just my opinion so feel free to ignore) that it is too soon to be thinking about anyone apart from you and your hubby. I would think it is all still very raw but agree with your friend that if the B-I-L and GF know that you have been going through treatment then that they would hopefully be considerate to you following your news 

Anyway look after yourself and give yourself time    
xx


----------



## Digby74

Hi everyone,

hope all bearing up. Thanks Calladene for your reply, very frustrating waiting for the ol AF isn't it! Still nothing with me. Not often we are willing the witch to turn up eh!
Harper hope things become clearer for you soon, I know what you mean, some days I just can't face it all again and i haven't been through a fraction of what some of the ladies on here have been through. Just follow your instincts is the only advice I can give.
Love London, feel for you so much, and not even with your hubby this week. You sound very brave. I agree with previous post, sod everyone else and put yourself first, least you deserve  

I'll keep stalking and hope everyone finds the strength to carry on.

xxx


----------



## Love London

Thank you Digby and Bailey for your kind words and advice  

I decided to send a message to brother in-law's GF asking if we could meet up for a coffee, I'm really hoping that if I see her, it will completely change the way I feel and help me move forward... its a risk. She hasn't responded yet and if she doesn't then I will know that she isn't going to be understanding of what us IVF ladies have to go through, and I'll leave it at that.

I think I'm on a bit of a downer as the intense hormone / progesterone is leaving my body! But hopefully I'll be myself again soon!

Thank you so much


----------



## Harper14

Hi all just a quick update as I'm on my phone.

Well today has been rather full on but things I'm pleased to say look clearer.

Firstly saw my gynacologist and I'm so happy that he is going to do hysteroscopy I am booked in for next week already had my pre op today. 

Then we saw our consultant for follow up to failed cycle, i never thought I would step back in the clinic but today I did and I felt ok, infancy fairly peaceful this is not something I would have been able to do a few months ago so I'm glad I've gave myself time. The good news is the consultant was so pleased with the majority of my cycle said the egg quality was excellent and would see no reason why we shouldn't try again (which obviously he is going to say) infavt he quite happy for us to start ASAP but we have a holiday first and I want to have hidden c test done. So looks like I'm back on the roller coaster!! X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all. I've missed some chats. Bailey and pudding how you both doing and where are you in cycle.

AFM my donor cycle is coming up in a few days when I get my period!!!! Then she will start. Please let this be the time, I simply can't take anymore heartbreak.


----------



## ayah

Hello ladies,

Lots of new people here. Sorry for your losses.  Wishing you all the best and   during these hard times.

Tiff, it feels like it has flown by.  Prehaps not for you?  Thinking of you, all best.

Hi everyone else.  Pudding and Bailey have you started cycling now?

Take care

Ayah xxx


----------



## Calladene

I'm bk on long protocol starting pill today !
Nervous incase eggs don't fertilise again x
How is everyone else feeling x


----------



## Pudding34

*LoveLondon* how did it go with your brothers girlfriend did she reply to your email?

*Harper14* I'm so glad your appointment went well, even negative cycles have upsides and you have to learn from what happens!

*Tiff* lovely to hear from you babes, I'm down regging right now and got AF this morning so just waiting to be told when to start stimming again, it's weird I was surprised by how nervous I felt when I got my period this morning, it's all become real again and I'm feeling this overwhelming sense of fear for it not working again! I ordered some pee sticks last week in preparation and I'm just so nervous!

*Ayah* good to hear from you as well Hun hope all is well with you!

*Calladene* I understand how nervous you are I feel the same way about my cycle but we just have to take a deep breath and carry on! We are all here for you so tell us if you are worried and we will do our best to reassure you!

Lots of love to you all!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

Hiya all

I'm currently in the middle of stimms, got my Day 7 scan tomorrow and hopefully EC next Friday as long as the follicles are playing ball!

Great news *Tiff* about starting soon, will have everything crossed for you with the DE's 

Well done for going back *Harper*, it is daunting  and good news that the consultant was positive, have they recommended any changes to your treatment for the next cycle. I think you are right to go on holiday and start back when you feel ready, I wanted to start straight away but my consultant made me wait for 2 months and now I can see that that was the right thing to do.

Hope you get a reply soon from your BIL's GF *LoveLondon*, again you have been brave. You get to see your hubby tomorrow don't you? Hope you have a lovely time together 

Hiya *Ayah*, how are you?

Have everything crossed for you too *Calladene* 

  to everyone else too
xx


----------



## Harper14

Pudding - how exciting that things are going to get going for you now - keep positive!!

Bailey - yes I do feel better which I didn't think I would but I actually found it therapeutic to talk about it and seeing how positive the consultant was encouraged me to get excited again and give it another shot. He doesn't want to change my protocol as I responded so well the only changes he mentioned was scratch the month before and metformin. He seems happy that I'm having a hysteroscopy as he does think it was a problem with implantation. 

I also seem to have thick lining he told me today it was 14.5mm on egg collection which for them it's borderline but my estrogen was lower so hence why they put embryo back but he didn't really tell me what I can do to lower the lining

Also I forgot to ask why I bled before otd any ideas?

Xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Glad you all on your way xxxx good luck


----------



## Harper14

Tiffany good luck with your cycle xxx


----------



## Pudding34

Harper 

I was advised that bleeding before OTD can be a sign of a lack of progesterone.

I had the same problem and so on this cycle I am going to be on the injectable progesterone Gestone.

It is an oil based injection and my DH is going to have to learn how to give it to me which he is super nervous about as we have been told it is hard to do and is uncomfortable but you gotta do what you gotta do I guess!

It may be worth discussing this with your clinic although if you are NHS they may not support gestone so it might be worth consulting with a private clinic to discuss the options as we did.

Pudding
X


----------



## ayah

Wow some exciting times coming up!  Hadnt realised how long Id kept aeay for.  All best all you cyclers!  Are you cycle buddying too?  Need to keep up.  Pudding it is so normal to be aprehansive.  We so want to be excited but still there is the real fear of having to go through that horrid heart ach again too.  Sometimes we just have to let our emtions swing.  As long as we have the safetly net in place to catch us if we fall.  Ptaying that non of you will need it this time.

Friend from work had hystocopy 3 weeks ago and had her consultant review today.  So hoping she can get away with not haveing ivf.  She had couple natural bfps, with early miscarriages / chemicals, so hope this will have sorted it for her.  

We have an old wives tail in nursing, that if three nurses make a bed one will get pregnant, so she got me and a girl with twins, who doesnt want more, to make a bed with her, to stack the odds in her favour!  Hell we will try anything to increase the chances, even stupid wives tails!  Hoping her consultant will come up with some more sound advice though!  

Teeinparis, how are you holding up?  

Take care of yourselves ladies.  Be kind to yourselves too.  

Ayah xxx


----------



## ayah

Oh sorry forgot yo say, thank you for asking after me, pudding and Bailey.  Ok thanks


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi guys,

Been struggling.  DHs sperm doesn't seem to be getting better.  We are changing clinics and depending on periods will do another cycle at the end of June.  He wanted to wait one cycle due to the progesterone still in my system.  He is changing the protocol to an antagonist and menopur.  Any thought on menopur rather than gonal f or puregon?  The are also going to do imsi.  

I just can't figure out how in two years the sperm went from borderline to catastrophic?  I should've gone on the clomid and lost the weight then but I just thought it would work out....now it feels like it won't ever happen....I regret so many stupid decision like not starting to officially start and chart when we got married 9 years ago but we wanted to get settled a bit.  

Good luck to the rest of you.

Tina


----------



## bailey434

Hi Tee

I've only been on menopur so can't comment on gonal f or puregon, but menopur is ok, getting more symptoms this time around with the higher dose (mainly hot flushes). Did he say why he is changing the protocol to help you understand?  Has your DH been taking supplements/changed his diet to try and help (probably a stupid question)

Please don't focus on 'what if's' and 'if onlys' as hard as it is not to, we can't change what has happened before, even if we want to, and the truth is that no-one really knows/thinks they will have trouble until they decide to start trying, it's a vicious circle. Focus on the future with hope for everything good because stress about the past just won't help the next cycle   
xx


----------



## Harper14

pudding - i have also read it can be lack of progesterone on the last cycle i was on cyclogest x2 a day but we are with a private clinic so i will ask their advice and see if we can up the dose. I bled 7 days after transfer.

teen - don't be down on your self I'm sure we could all beat our selfs up with if only but thats not life you just have to deal with your current situation, with regards to sperm try not to worry too much we had a really bad result and I got my DH on wellman every day, cut out caffeine/alcohol and no hot baths and coincidence or not it went from disastrous to excellent and although we didn't need icsi they decided to do in the end as he had previously had bad results but it shows just how much it can improve.

x


----------



## Pudding34

*Tee* Hi sweetie, good to hear from you, you can't live with coulda, shoulda, woulda, we all have those thoughts but now we just have to put them away and focus on where we are today and what is next.

If you allow these hindsight thoughts to control you you will sink under them.

Don't get me wrong, I still think like that at times I think of the three years I wasted with DH before we even started trying and if we hadn't done that we could be much further down the line right now but I have to push that aside and focus on the treatment!

*Harper* I asked about upping my crinone dosage but my private consultant was of the opinion that I was actually not metabolising the pessaries hence the injections.

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Thanks everyone.  

Those cycling please still chat here as in some ways we have got to know each other quite well.  

He didn't give a reason.  It was in French and my French is just ok and my husbands is non-existent.  We were advised to change labs so we have.  I think they are trying to maximise egg quality.  

I am just up in the air knowing when AF will arrive.  I spotted two days before otd....got some red blood that day and the next then the rest was brown.  For the two days between and before otd I thought it may be implantation.  I did forget my progesterone one of the nights but wouldn't think that would have much barring on a healthy pregnancy.  

We have been doing a lot to improve sperm - getting him to take herbs and vitamins has been hard though.  He is hit or miss with Accupuncture.  His drinking is minimal - maybe a drink a day but we can cut out all fun and when his sperm was better he was drinking and it has stayed the same level or gone down.  We are continually working on diet.  I am seeing a nutritionist now and am going to use this month to get down weight wise.  

We are now doing imsi - anyone tried or no about it?  Do you think with the next five weeks it would be worth doing immunes? 

Tee


----------



## Harper14

sounds like you are already doing all you can in terms of supplements etc and like you say you can't cut out everything, sometimes I am on the opinion that look at others diet/alcohol in take etc and they still get pregnant - very frustrating!! 

i am sorry I don't know what imsi is so i cannot offer any advice on that.

in terms of the immunes this is something that i feel i should look into but pudding suggested the hidden c test which i am going to send off on next cycle and yesterday the consultant mentioned taking aspirin - i am not sure why, he said it could help with implantation?? my dh gets rather annoyed as they all seem to sit on the fence by suggesting things but not insisting - like metformin/asprin saying "studies show etc" but yet we were never advised on first cycle agh!!

also they mentioned a different type of monitoring of the embryos its a camera that takes photos of them constatntly saving them taking them out to monitor but its 650 so i am not sure if its actually worth it

x


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi, 

I have been taking the baby aspirin on and off.  People and consultants are really mixed.  I took it for the fresh cycle, up to but not during the frozen cycle....so who knows.  I know it all depends on what the issues are - unexplained, male, pcos, male etc.

IMSI from my understanding is what I thought ICSI was - essentially they magnify the sperm a lot more and look for the 'good sperm' to then inject.  According to studies it has better live birth and pregnancy rates.  

The hidden C cells - isn't that chlamydia?  So wouldn't the blood tests show?  Alternatively, the only person I have had unprotected sex with is my husband so unless he gave it to me wouldn't that be redundant?

Also, with the immune cells are those not just a blood test?

Having a hard time getting myself around changing docs as I really like my current FE but with two failed cycles .....

Thanks for listening and advice!


----------



## Pudding34

Hey ladies!

IMSI is a super magnified version of ICSI they look more closely at the composition of the sperm in particular the shape of the head to eliminate the ones that are potentially deformed.

I would love to do IMSI but my NHS trust won't provide it or let us pay extra for it! Mad huh!

Hidden infection testing covers more than just Chlamydia, for the price it is worth ruling it's out and it's easy to do with Serum. If you want more info let me know!

Aspirin is a blood thinner and is used to treat Thrombophilia (blood clotting which prevents blood to the embryo)  I had the testing for this and it came back negative but I am having aspirin this time around anyway as my consultants say "to cover all bases"! I am also having Claxane again for the same thing!

The Embryoscope sounds really interesting, it's useful because they can see how the embryos divide and progress, this tells the embryologist which embryo will be the strongest and most likely to be successful, if I had the chance to use it I would but that is just me!

Immunes testing is a blanket name for lots of different tests, I had NK cell testing, Thrombophilia and thyroid testing.

The last two can be done easily with a blood test at your GPs, NK cell testing takes a bit longer and will have to be done at a fertility clinic, Tee I can't help with a recommendation in Paris but if you want one for London I can recommend the Lister.

They take a lot of blood as they test for the cells and also their strength and what the best treatment is for them as there are several different treatments including steroids and intralipids.

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Thanks Pud - so you didn't show any NK cells I take it?

I have booked in for an appointment at the Lister Clinic - I am scheduled at a new clinic for the end of June to start stimming and they have totally changed my protocol to an antagonist with menopur.  They also will do imsi and want us to have an appt with the biologist.....has anyone ever heard of this?  

Tee

PS - Tiff - I am so excited for you!


----------



## Harper14

wow pudding you know so much thanks for your advice.

my concern with the embryos cope is they already knew which blasts to put back with me as they were graded in stages so why would this make much of a difference? my consultant said that in the next few years it will be standard in every cycle even nhs - bloody typical but if we want it then its 650 more which to be honest I am ok with as we are egg sharing our cycle is very inexpensive so it might be worth chucking everything at it.

I am just waiting for my AF then going to send off to serum (do you know where i might get a sample pot from)

in terms of the nk cells do you know how much lister charge for this? it is something that i am interested in.

I am going to take the aspirin this time feel like it can't do me any harm so may as well try, also got to get on to metformin but we go on holiday next week so going to wait until i come back from there also forgot to say we agreed with the consultant that this time we will transfer 2 embryos 

xx


----------



## Harper14

teen i done antagonist protocol my clinic strongly believes its the best protocol but i don't it with fostimon I understand now what IMSI is.

sorry pudding forgot to ask you mentioned tests that GP can do I am at my GP next week what tests can i request? 

thanks x


----------



## Pudding34

*Harper* That is the beauty of this site, we can share our knowledge and experiences to help each other!

Your GP should be able to do Thrombophilia (blood clotting) and thyroid testing.

A good thyroid level for TTC is between 1 & 2 and if it is higher they can consider putting you thyroxine provided this is right for you!

My DH got my sample pots in boots!

I don't,now how much the NK cells cost as my GP is next tousle less so I did all my tests with the Lister I sure they could give you a quick breakdown if you give them a call thought found them so helpful!

My understanding is that the grading of an embryo isn't the same as how it divides and progresses so the Embryoscope gives them much more info on the best embie to put back!

I would love to do two embryos this time but ident think the NHS will allow it although idid read about a woman on here who had two put back on an NHS cycle after having had a failed cycle so I wonder if it might be worth asking the question!

*Tee* my NK cells were normal, we all have them it's the level and the toxicity that they are looking at!

Did you mean an appointment with the embryologist?

Of course I'm not a medical expert in anyway so any advice I give on here is just from my own experience and shouldn't be relied on! ( the lawyer in me pops out every now and then!)

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi,

i just called lister - I reckon the tests work out with consultants fees to about a grand.  I will see where to get the pot to send away.  They suggested I see Dr Thum as he specialises in Immune stuff there.  So that is who my appointment is with.  Last time I thought it was with someone different, but I cancelled as we were getting some advice from Australia.  Who knows....

Ya, essentially I have an appointment with the embryologist/lab/biologiste 

Tee


----------



## Tiffanymi

Tee, good luck for end June. We both keep hopping on again  hopefully our turn soon. Sometimes changing doctors and fresh eyes is a good thing. I'm sorry to hear about the sperm, I know it's easy to be hard on yourself but try not to. I too was married a long time before undergoing IVF and now regret it. My eggs went from bad to broken and non existent in terms of quality. We can only hope at at the end if this our fulfilled life with a child awaits. It's so hard. Xxxx good luck Tee


----------



## Teeinparis

When you cycling again Tiff?  Will they do frosties too?


----------



## Tiffanymi

In the next few days my donor will cycle hopefully once I get period.


----------



## Tiffanymi

Oh also yes I think I get frosted if she has more


----------



## ayah

Looks like a lot of cycljng gojng on here.  All best with it.

Pudding mynhs clinic would not put two back for first cycle, but would if 1st failed and over 35 or there abouts, they will.  They dont recommend it as there are so many risks including high mc rate.  The odds of a bfp are just as high with a singke transfer and a froozen, as a double transfer.  And thdn ghd fisks of complications ars less too.  But  my second was not good enough to freeze but could have been transfered.  I still opped for single transfer as I could not have coped with a bfp and thdn loss thdm both due to complications.  Ivf is also more likely to result in identicals so two could become three.  Then the risks are even higher. But you got to do what you feel is right.  Always worth asking them.

All best ladies

Ayah xxx


----------



## Teeinparis

Tiff - I know someone here who is in her 40s that just had DE and now has identical twins....so I just having a feeling this will work for you.

Aya - how's the pregnancy going?

Bailey and Puds - how are your stims going?  Bailey you are on Menopur?  How is it? Did you get any frosties after your first cycle?

I have a question for you ladies - after my unsuccessful FET I started getting a brown period about two days before then it went red at various times including my OTD (I thought it could have been implantation bleeding at the beginning) then it went until the Monday after mostly brown.  Any thoughts - I am having issues with calculating my cycle start.  Is it from when I started the brown or the OTD....  Does this mean there was a lack of progesterone?  

I am also using a clear blue fertility monitor this and last month - last month it never even got to two bars although my bloods and scans showed I was growing follicles and they disappeared right on schedule - although my progesterone level seemed quite low the day after ovulation.  I did also have some blood midway through both the last cycles.  Now the monitor has been showing two bars for the last 5 days or so although depending my period should be due soon....when you look at the tests the second line is getting darker but it looks the same to me as when I should've ovulated.  

It is hard as we are meant to keep trying naturally as although really bad with all the numbers, counts, morphology etc our GP and FE's and everyone says it only takes 1 and they have had patients with miracles

Sorry for the novel and TMI - but any help would be great.

So confused.


----------



## Tiffanymi

Tee, thanks. I hope it is. My month. Starting lucrin tomorrow. Yay. Feels like ages since my last hope and now I'm playing in a stronger percentage field so hope it's all BFP in june!!!!

Tee, I am not sure but my period always in brown first and only when it is full on red, is it a full period. Mine after an op is due to dry blood and during a period is due to endometriosis. Do you think you could have endo?


----------



## Teeinparis

I hope so too, and me in July!  

Thanks for the advice.  And good luck with the the drugs.  Keep me posted.  

AFM - my hysto was clear and nothing suggests endo.  Which is good.


----------



## Pudding34

Tee

It's great news that the Hysto was all clear!

Let's hope these upcoming cycles for us all are the lucky ones!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

For sure - 35 may be our best year yet!  

Yup, two docs said i have a good looking uterus, if only the embryos thought so


----------



## bailey434

Hi Tee

Going ok so far. have between 11-14 follies and they look ok size Friday at the Day 7 scan, going back on Wednesday to look at progress and hopefully aiming for EC on Friday if it's not pushed by a few days like last cycle. Menopur is going ok, had quite a few hot flushes but they seem to be easing a bit now thankfully  I am feeling quite bloated already but think that's more to do with all the protein I'm eating  Quite tired though!

Take care & will catch up more next week as am away in Wales with shocking internet 
xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Tee, so glad no endo and hyster clear. Hope it is a start if good news to come from here. 

Bailey that's a great number. Good luck for EC. 

AFM. Started meds. Donor starting in a week IVF So exciting news. 

It's so strange how I was so worried about DEs and now it's not an issue. I just want it to work. 

Xxxxxxxxhave. A good week all xxxx


----------



## Saf10

My colleague at work said she took Gestone, Clexane and asprin after her failed cycle and got pregnant with twins the next time around. What is Clexane is used for and from when? 

Do NHS give these drugs?


----------



## Saf10

ARGC list of their website the initial immune testing for £780 but does anyone know what tests are included? Any help would be greatly appreciated


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi.  Not sure I have an appointment with Lister.  I am also going to send away the hidden infections tests.


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Saf, so glad you decided to join us!

Gestone is injectable progesterone, claxane and aspirin are used to combat thrombophillia as they thin the blood.

I had thrombophillia tests done and they came back clear but I am still going to be on aspirin and claxane to cover all the bases!

Tee, so glad you are going to the Lister, do you know who you are going to see?

Pudding
X


----------



## Saf10

Thanks Pudding, you know a lot girl


----------



## Harper14

hi all,

hope everyone is ok? 

pudding how is your cycle going?

teen - when are you seeing the lister? I have sent off for my hidden test which was eventful trying to get a sample!! does anyone know if its ok to just send royal mail? hope so as this is all i have done also I did not put in an ice pack.

Saf10 - I am also interested in these tests but don't really fancy spending lots of money to test for them, I have asked on a separate post whether you can treat without confirming you need the meds and if so how you can get the prescriptions or if there is any danger to doing this, my consultant is quite supportive of aspirin therapy although didn't tell us to take on first cycle and I have read so much success stories of clexane & steroids working but its a minefield

AFM - well I have hyteroscopy tomorrow, sent off for Hidden C test today, going to start metformin next week can't really do much more, as i have said above i really am interested in treating incase I have nk cells so taking clexane, aspirin & steroids does anyone know if you can actually do this? or do i need to have confirmed that I need all these drugs? where do I get? sorry for all the questions but I just want to try everything with this cycle and not look back and think what if!!

xx


----------



## Pudding34

*Saf* I just hope I can help you and others with the experiences that I have had!

*Harper* All clinics vary, some will treat empirically and some not. One factor is how many cycles you have had that were not successful.

Having said that I had tests for thrombophillia and NK Cells that both came back clear but I am still having aspirin and claxane on my current cycle as prescribed by my NHS consultant to cover all bases and also prednisolone (a steroid for treating NK cells) prescribed by my private consultant again to cover all bases!

I sent my sample to serum by Royal Mail and didn't put ice in just a little bit of sterile water as directed. Hope all comes back clear!

Good luck for the Hysteroscopy tomorrow!

Pudding
X


----------



## Harper14

Thanks pudding.

My consultant doesn't treat immunes do you know where I could get clexane or steroids do you think serum would write a prescription?

I would really like to cover all basis with this cycle

Will I be sore after op tomorrow? X


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi.

My hystography was less uncomfortable than EC.  I went for a jog the next day. 

I would take baby aspirin only unless you get a diagnosis.  At the end of the day a healthy couple in peak fertility only have a 25 percent chance of getting pregnant.  NHS guidelines are 3  cycles for a reason.  Also, even the best clinics it is a less than 1/2 chance.  40 percent is the highest any clinic has in sucess rates which works out to almost 1/3.  

Hard to keep perspective.


----------



## Pudding34

Harper

I don't know about Serum as I only used them for the hidden infection testing.

It might be worth approaching a private clinic near you if you can to see if they will treat you discreetly and empirically.

You could consider posting on FF to see if anybody near you has any recommendations.

Pudding
X


----------



## Harper14

Pudding I'm trying to get more info on nk cell test and treatment so far liverpool have come back to me it's 700 to test then treatment.

What did you pay to test nk cells if you don't mind me asking I'm just not sure any ideas on costs
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Harper it is about a grand at Lister including the tests and consultancy fees.  

Bailey and Pudding - keep us posted on your cycles   We have been talking so long about the hard stuff, be good to here the exciting stuff too


----------



## Pudding34

*Harper* our tests were about £2,000.00 but that was for more than just the NK cell testing.

*Tee* I did my first stim injection tonight! I forgot how nervous I get when I have to do them!

It's very exciting and scary at the same time!

Every new step is so weird it makes me feel like there is more pressure.

I'm going to see a friend tomorrow who had a baby last year when my first cycle failed, I still haven't met her daughter and I'm looking forward to it and dreading it at the same time! I'm sure it will be fine once I am there I'm just blowing it up in my mind!

Pudding
X


----------



## Harper14

Thanks pudding 

How exciting that your starting stims I understand how you must be feeling try and be positive I have everything crossed for you.

Xx


----------



## Saf10

Has anyone used Nurture Fertility's 'comprehensive implantation screening service? http://www.nurture.ac.uk/new-screening-service-for-miscarriages-or-unsuccessful-ivf-treatment

It seems much cheaper than London clinics. Any feedback would be appreciated.


----------



## Harper14

Saf I have spoken to a clinic in Coventry ego come recommended and they do nk cell test for 360 this is the uterine sample not the blood as it's more accurate and they prescribe treatment if needed.

it's was the only test I needed as I've had most if the others do you want the details?

X


----------



## Saf10

Yes please Harper, that would be great.


----------



## Harper14

If you out in professor Quenby nk cells in to google there is an email address for her secretary Kerri email will come up I've emailed her and she been so helpful

The test is to be done at a certain time of your cycle and there is no waiting list you just need to call once you have confirmed ovulation and the test is 360 

Hope this helps x


----------



## Teeinparis

What's interesting is a friends clinic in Australia (Genea) has very high success rates and the don't do IMSI or buy into immunes.  They say the research doesn't back it up - yet I was quoted 38 percent and 48 percent rates.  Although it seems crazy a three months after Turing 35 my rate goes down 10 percent .


----------



## ayah

Hi ladies, things are moving on!

Pudding great on starting the stimms.  Getting closer to EC and ET!  Doesnt seem like 6 months ago we started chatting.  Hope the visit to friends goes well.  Guess this is a good time to visit.  Think it harder seeing new borns too.  Not that it makes much difference, but its like kids gdnerally never bothered me but pregnant women near term and little babies used to get me.  If that makes sence.

Anyway really hope that all those tests and  drugs work.  Trying not to get to excited my self , for all of you in cycle.  That sounded nicer in my head than posted!  I mean it so easy for me to get excited and pure out, oh it will work I just know it will.  Which I am not sure is as helpful as it sounds in my head.  Hope you get my drift as I feel I am digging a  hole.  Just really hoping this is your time ladies.

Tee, it really does make you feel old when they start counting down your chances   .  Keep heart though. At 24 I could not manage it, took till 31 and iui for 1 but managed it natural at 36.  Makes no sence.  Especially as they had said just year before my overies were mature, that iui was unlikely to work, 2 ivf and only 6ish eggs a time, less than half fertalised, non to freeze and would need icsi for third atempt.  It can still work keep that in mind.  

On seperate notr.  We discussed starting a new thread in the grneral chat long term friends bit, a while back.  I went into it but could not find for life of me where to start a new thread.  Would be nice to have place to keep in contact.  Also many of you who known me for while ask how Im getting on which is lovely, but I dont feel comfortable saying here.  Wouldnt go on about it there either, but would feel happier replying in brief there.  Oh and getting more lowdown on the fur babies etc.  Missing fur baby news Pudding.

Take care all.  

Ayah xxx


----------



## Pudding34

Having an awful day, a colleague of mine, younger, married for less  than a year, (irrelevant to my rational mind not to my IVF mind) told me she is three months pregnant this morning!

I'm happy for her but it was like a gut punch and I haven't stopped crying yet.

I'm sure all the hormones I am pumped up with have something to do with my reaction as well, but it has also made me realise that I have resigned myself to accepting that the cycle won't work and I feel utterly desperate again, I really don't know what to do and typing this post is the most I have been able to bring myself to do! It's like I am frozen.

I knew she was pregnant when I saw her last month as she wasn't drinking, I wasn't either and so it rang alarm bells in by head, she actually said she wondered if I was also going to make an announcement when we spoke this morning, and it has just heightened the pain I am feeling.

I'm so very sorry this post is all me me me but I can't focus I anything and just needed to get it out.

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Pud, 

I know how you feel.  The friends who wedding we went to in Oct - which we put off the down reg shot for are due this coming month.  Either she was pregnant at the wedding, or wedding night essentially!  I was on clomid and was a basket case at the wedding.  I drank too much, my husband was in the wedding party, so I had to through the whole day alone - we didn't get an invite (who knows why), so I couldn't eat a proper meal as am mainly vegetarian, and the fish they gave me instead of meat was off.  My husband wouldn't even eat it when he came to my table.  They put me at the furthest table with so e friends of my husbands who I hadn't seen in 9 years with my back to them.  I managed to get rides to the reception thank god!  But they didn't arrange anything for me.  The wedding was in Austalia so the trip also cost a bomb.  We arrived and they had arranged for my husband to try on his suit within hours of arriving.  We only had a week as had to combine it with our yearly holiday.  So instead of going to his his grandma in a nursing home he had to go to the suit fitting.  Then on the flight over they sprung the bucks due which was four hours out of Sydney so that was two days on my own, plus the wedding.  Then they asked for us to block of lunch the next week which sounded just like a drink at the whole we used to drink at, so we declined as needed to see his grandma.  In 8 days four were spent on the wedding, one with the Aussie family, another one or two with his grandma - so essentially my supposed delay to relax with my husband stress free was not that!!!!! It ended up that was our thank you at a swanky restaurant.....we have had no thank you card etc.  Then after the last failed ivf we went to Oz. - found out she was 5 months but they didn't was to tell us in cae it upset us.  Which actually upset me more and I have been a bit depressed about since.  So after all that she is due and I feel rediculous for getting so upset in the day, letting the delayed start stress me out, ruin our holiday and go into ivf low which is probably why it isn't working.  

So essentially I understand....


----------



## Saf10

Pudding, I know how you feel. I came back to work on Tuesday after my failed IVF cycle two. First thing I see when I open my work e-mail is a colleague’s baby pictures. She had her baby over the weekend. I also see an e-mail from a colleague who is pregnant, moaning that it was very unexpected and she didn’t want more kids as she has two already. 

In my heart, I was thinking stop being ungrateful. What I would do to change places with you. 
I am happy for my colleagues but its really hard. I am sure our time is coming soon and your current cycle will bring you the good news you been waiting for


----------



## Pudding34

Thank you *Tee* and *Saf*, i feel like a horrible person for being so upset!

My boss called me pretty soon after i spoke to her and I had to answer as i really needed to speak to him, he knows all about our issues and when treatment is etc as he needs to take my work on if i have to take it easy, he asked me if I had a cold as i was sniffing!

I said no, I spoke to (my colleague) and she told me, he said oh, I should probably have given you a heads up huh! the others in my team dont know about it all! So I said ummm ya that would have been helpful!

I cried for about two hours and am keeping myself busy with work stuff will do the hoovering and some cooking this afternoon!

*Tee*, that ordeal sounds ghastly! its so unfair isnt it, insensitive selfish people always get what they want without even trying!

When I was with my friend yesterday i couldnt help thinking that I would have had a baby by now if my first cycle had worked, this was the friend of mine that told me that when she had her baby when I was going through my first chemical pregnancy she had post natal depression and understood completely how i felt being depressed over my infertility and chemical pregnancy, at the time i was flabberghasted and never really said anything to her, but yesterday when we were chatting she said she was very overprotective of the baby when she was littler, i said well maybe that was partly the post natal, she had no clue what i was talking about and actually said i wasnt post natal, so she wasnt post natal she just wanted to compare how i was feeling at the time! i didnt confront her her about it it just isnt worth it!

But thats crazy right, claiming falsely to have had post natal depression when a friend is distraught over not being able to have a baby maybe ever? it takes competition to a whole new level!

Pudding
x


----------



## Teeinparis

My husband keeps reminding me of this - we have had 10 years together 9 married when we will get pregnant.  We have lived in two countries in that time (not counting Oz), we have travelled the world made great friends and know each other really well.  We will be better parents for it.  A few years older than we thought but better for it.  It will happen!  

Frankly pudding - go home put on Zita West meditation for pre transfer, run a bath with a vanilla candel after and think about those babies you are growing  

I have a good feeling for you!  Make sure to have some accupunture around transfer and post as they are trying to implant!  

As someone else on this thread said we want our babies and not theirs.  After seeing my nephew I realise he as perfect as he is now wouldn't be him if any of the other three pregnancies took for my sil.


----------



## Pudding34

Thanks Tee, your words mean so much tonme, I've been feeling really negative about my cycle lately, I find myself mentally preparing myself for a BFN or another chemical, what will I do how will i deal with it, what will be my next step, maybe its just my subconscious trying to protect me from too much dissapointment but either way thats how I feel, i know a good positive attitude is important but i just cant seem to muster it yet!

I am def having accupuncture pre and post transfer, my practitioner is awesome she even came to my house after ET last time so I didnt have to worry about going out!

I'm working at home but am going to do some cooking and try to relax a bit now!

Pudding
x


----------



## Teeinparis

Seriously Pud - just go on iTunes and get the zita west album and just focus positively on you and your growing eggs.  Take the time to just be and physically and mentally relax.  

It is hard as the first cycle I was not prepared for the BFN - so it is a fine balance.  At the end of it the numbers show that 1/3 result in a live birth.  And that is fresh transfers.  So this is your second go at a better weight with more things.  If this doesn't work you try again.


----------



## melbg

Saf10 said:


> Has anyone used Nurture Fertility's 'comprehensive implantation screening service? http://www.nurture.ac.uk/new-screening-service-for-miscarriages-or-unsuccessful-ivf-treatment
> 
> It seems much cheaper than London clinics. Any feedback would be appreciated.


Sorry to just butt in here with this. I'm at Nurture in prep for fet next month. I've looked into this service (in a weird let's be prepared for the worst kind of way), it seems they can run a whole load of tests or just the ones that you can't get your gp etc to do, nk cells & biopsy etc, to make it cheaper. Not sure if they do it for non-patients but I can't see why they'd turn the money away? Anyway, it would be worth an email to the address on their website for info.

Best of luck, x


----------



## ayah

Oh Pudding hun, thats the last thing you need.  Espceially her thinking you pregnant too at this time.  It is so hard to be positive and natural to feel warry of being positive.  It can work.  And you doing all you can.  Try focus on the great things you are doing to give yourselves the best chances.  Go get excited think yourself bfp!  If the worse happens we are here for you. You will grieve, then in time you will pick yourself up and maybe do it all again,  but that is all ifs.  Now is the time to focus on tx and you.  The here and now.

So so ruiting for you Pudding.  And Ted advice sounds great too.

Tee that sounds awfal!  To go all that way and you treated like that.  


Take care

Ayah xxx


----------



## Sarah151181

Well my first ivf/icsi has resulted in bfn  we did get 8eggs that all fertilised which I suppose is good, by day 5 6 had stopped growing so the two early blasts were put in after assisted hatching.
Bit gutted it hasn't worked as u assume ivf gives u a better chance of success.
I think we will have to go back to trying naturally for a few months, I've got a blocked tube but hopefully miracles might happen with the good one and then start the process again oct/nov time.

X


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Sarah 

Welcome to the thread I'm so sorry to hear of your BFN!

I know what you mean about IVF gigging you a better chance, I think when we embarked in our first cycle I thought yes it will be hard and there will be a lot of work to do but it will be worth it as we will have a baby at the end of it all! Sadly not yet for me and my positivity has decreased with every set back.

Both chemicals I have had and each new diagnosis of an issue has set me back further and further in my mind and now I am struggling to be positive but we have to be positive about ourselves even if we can't be positive about treatment don't we!

This may be too soon for you but I found having a focus def helped me! Have you considered further testing immunes and hidden infections? If you want more info just let me know!

Lots of hugs to you!

Pudding
X


----------



## Sarah151181

What does immune testing check for? X


----------



## Pudding34

Sarah

We had our immune tests done at the Lister Fertility clinic the link is below. We saw Mr Nicopoullos and he was really great!

http://www.ivf.org.uk

The tests we had were

Thrombophilia
Thyroid
Natural Killer Cells
Karotyping (for DH)

Obviously the tests they will do will depend on your history and any other tests you have had done and may not be the same as the ones I had.

Some of the tests (thrombophillia and thyroid) can be done by your GP if funds are an issue and you have a helpful GP, we did not so did all the tests with the Lister.

We also did hidden infections testing at Serum and were both prescribed ABs, you send off a sample of your AF blood to be tested so it looks a bit deeper than other tests. It's really not an expensive test so def worth doing!

Did you have early bleeding on your cycle? If so this could be a sign of a lack of progesterone which may be worth investigating, it is suspected that I have this issue so on my current cycle I will be having injectable progesterone as well as the pessaries as they suspect I am not metabolising the progesterone in the pessaries.

Pudding
X


----------



## Sarah151181

I've had no bleeding at all not even any spotting.
I thought immune tests were for repeat miscarriage? I've never been pregnant.
X


----------



## Pudding34

Immune tests aren't just for miscarriage they can also help with implantation failure.

Pudding
X


----------



## Sarah151181

Thanks I didn't know that, I'll see what they suggest when we go for our follow up appt with the clinic

Sarah x


----------



## Pudding34

It's always good to have questions to ask at the follow up, I find I get a bit overwhelmed so I write them down!

When is your appointment do you know yet?

Pudding
X


----------



## Sarah151181

I've got to phone Monday with the result and then we are away for nearly two wks on Greece so probably be towards end of June  x


----------



## Pudding34

So glad you are going on holiday it's so important to get away and get some time to recover!

Hope you have a lovely relaxing weekend!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Hope you well

Donor started Simms!!!! So glad we are on our way. Hopefully this time is BFP time.


----------



## Pudding34

Tiffany

That is great news! Congratulations on starting your new journey!

Big hugs Hun!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

brilliant news Tiff!    
xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Tx all


----------



## Harper14

Hey everyone how are you all getting on?

Pudding how are you feeling?

We're abroad at the moment so hence why I've not been on but I've just has a major panic I forgot to send the bloods to serum it's it the fridge we don't get back until Wednesday that will be over a week will the sample be ruined do I need to wait until next af to get new sample?

X


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Harper

Hope you are having a good time, I really don't know the answer on the Serum sample, def ring or email them, I found they were really helpful and quick to respond with any questions I had!

I'm doing okay, I'm stimming now hoping for EC the early part of next week!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi Harper 

It says on their website and leaflet that it is good in the fridge for up to a month.  

Tina


----------



## Tiffanymi

Good luck Harper. I hope it is still ok for this AF. I can't imagine the feeling you have but hope all works out


----------



## pumpkin1975

Hi ladies

Sadly we've had our second BFP. Was really hopeful with this cycle as we had a 4AB blast but now feel crushed. Need to return to work soon but don't want to face everyone. I know we've got to do it all again and that pains me.

Any advice?

X


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Pumpkin

I'm so glad you have reached out to this thread, having these amazing ladies really helped me through my last chemical.

Facing people after a cycle hasn't worked, even if they don't know the story is always hard, you feel like it is written all over your face, but it isn't my love! It really isn't and you can tell them as much or as little as you want! I found shrugging off awkward questions with "women's things" has always worked for me in the past, people rarely ask more questions after that!

The best advice I can offer is, one day at a time! Maybe even half a day at a time, don't think too far ahead, just think about getting to lunchtime and then once you have done that to getting home at the end of the day!

One step at a time and it won't seem so daunting! If it's too much go home, do what you can and it will get easier as time goes on! Don't suffer on nobody ever really appreciates it so don't torture yourself! 

Big hugs my love, stay strong and take really good care of yourself!

Pudding
X


----------



## pumpkin1975

Thanks pudding, your advice is great. Take it one day at a time . Felt ok yesterday at the spa but came crashing down today. Feel so anti social which is not like me. Think I was in shock with my bleed at first, then anger, sadness, now just feel flat and fed up!

DH and I are thinking of other things I can do non ivf related. Infertility just takes over everything.

X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hey guys. 

My donor is retrieving Friday and I am transferring next Wednesday. All going fast now. I think I may put back 2 if I get 2. I don't want twins but yet also don't want regrets. I am at an age where i just need to push on. 

Bailey where are you in cycle

Pudding your retrieval could be similar to my domor dates?


----------



## bailey434

Hey Tiff

I'm in the madness of the 2ww    OTD is Friday (the 13th!!) so am all over the place at the moment  

Great news about your transfer next week, exciting!!   I've gone for 2 this time for similar reasons to you   

Keep us updated, do you find out on Friday then how many eggs they got?
xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi Baliey. Wow I can't believe already OTD. Are you home testing at all? I prefer absolutes I never home test...

Good luck 13 can be a lucky number hope it happens for you. Wow so few days left. Keep us posted. 

Friday I will see number of eggs then every 2nd day will see how many survive. This process is much better on my body. In a way nice to not have all these injections and prodding going on....


All the best xxx hoping for you. Let's turn this page into a good luck page that has many BFPs coming


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Tiff

I've got EC tomorrow with hopefully a five day blast transfer of Sunday so not far off your dates at all!

I'm laying in bed now feeling really nervous about it all, there has been so much build up to this cycle that each step seems momentus!

Sending you and your donor tons of good luck for Friday! Keep me updated!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks pudding. All the best to you for tomorrow it is an exciting but nerve wrecking time. Hope quality comes out


----------



## Harper14

Wow loads has happened since I've bed away 

Bailey can't believe your otd is this week how exciting how are you feeling?

Pudding not long for you now either how are you feeling?

Not much to report from me we are back from an amazing holiday of eating and drinking far too much and not think about ivf but now back to reality I've got to send my sample off serum said it ok in the fridge for upto 4 weeks so going to send that today then booked next week for nk cell test both I'm thinking should take around 4 weeks to come back but then we are abroad again so tat should take my mind off things going to focus on positivity and eating healthy in the run up oh and start metformin tonight - wish me luck xx


----------



## bailey434

I didn't early test last time but may test at home on the actual OTD just to be prepared as it was a bit of a farce at the clinic and ended up with a complete stranger telling me is was a BFN which really didn't help!

I really don't know what I think. The first week of the 2ww was so different to last time that i was starting to think that it might have worked but now I just don't know!

Glad you are having a lovely break Harper  

Tiff so they definitely go for a 5dt then? Or is that the aim but they will see how they all get on before then?
xx


----------



## pumpkin1975

Hi bailey

Did you change clinics from the first to second cycle?
Just wondered if this could of helped?

X


----------



## bailey434

Hey Pumpkin, how are you doing?

No I stayed with the same clinic but really told them what I thought of the test day and the consultant was not happy. The lady didn't even introduce who she was, didn't have a name badge or a uniform on and so could have been the cleaner for all I knew. She had no empathy at all considering she had just told me it was a negative after spending weeks of injecting hormoes and spending thousands of pounds....not good. 

I have had the endo scratch, higher levels of menopur, steroids and clexane this time around to throw a lot more at it. Not sure whether I will stay there if this one is unsucessful, but then again I'm not sure where I would go....!
xx


----------



## pumpkin1975

Hi bailey

It's terrible the way they told you. I had one nurse at the Lister who had no empathy too and said I never wanted to see her again.

Saying that, I was left a voicemail telling me my blood test was negative, but I knew it would be so wasn't a total shock.

I hope my clinic will learn from our failure. If we stay with them.

Good luck
X


----------



## bailey434

They left you a message saying the blood test was negative!!! REALLY!!! What the hell is wrong with these people??! Sometime I get relaly downhearted about clinics/hospitals and private treatment and get concerned that they don't see you as a person with feelings and hopes and dreams etc, but just as a cashcow  
xx


----------



## pumpkin1975

I know! Feel like a cash cow. My DH is very critical of our clinic and rightly so.

I was so numb by that point when they left the message. They also said I couldn't call back as they were now closed. Managed to catch nurse by email to discuss coming off steriods. Another lady on here said the lister have taken their eye of the ball. I think they are greedy taking on too many patients.

Sorry to moan. Just so fed up!

X


----------



## bailey434

That's such an uncaring thing to do, especially when you need advice about reducing steroids as some people might have just stopped, which is quite dangerous! 

Moan away, that's what we are here for, it's much better to get it out and off your chest. Also find that it helps to let it out as you can be more assertive, rather than aggressive, with any response you need to make to the clinic after having a rant beforehand. A bit like when they say you should write everything in an email that you need to say, including all the f'ing and blinding, and then not send it and go back to it a few hours/days later as it will form a good basis for the actual one that you may need to send 
xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Bailey, yes they elfin it'll do 5 day transfer no less as they believe if it will survive it will survive the 5 day. They check on 5th day if ok. Friday is nearing....you must be a bundle of excitement and nerves!!!! Hope you are stress free

Pudding how was EC did they manage to get?

Harper, all the best!! Hope everything hoes well

Tee, how you doing? Any further developments on cycles or tests?

AFM I can hardly work having the EC donor Friday. Truly, the next 3 weeks at work will be a write off!!!!


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Tiff

I got 15 eggs, don't know about maturity or fertilisation yet, the wait until tomorrow morning when they will call to let me know will be endless!

Had my first claxane and gestone injections today and neither were as bad as I had been warned by my NHS clinic so feeling much more positive about them both, my post EC drug regimen is very complicated though hope I can keep it all in order in my head!

I can't say I blame you for not being able to concentrate, I've got no work on at the moment partly by design and good fortune but I'm thinking that may be worse than being busy!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Pudding that's amazing number of eggs. Hope quality is good. All the best. 

I have always been on clexane. Not bad. Stings for a brief second. I think just after a while your stomach looks bruised and battered. 

From Friday I have to take progesterone in my butt. Have you done that with a needle? Can dh give injections in the butt?? Otherwise have to go in daily


----------



## Pudding34

The gestone is a progesterone treatment injected into the bum!

It's oil based so, if yours is the same as mine, I highly recommend warming the vial In your bra first and put an ice pack on your bum to numb the area!

It didn't hurt at the time it was done I just feel a bit bruised down there now!

DH did my injection today and will be doing the rest of them, he had a drug teach at the private hospital and watched a you tube vid to refresh his memory today, he was super nervous as was I! But he did really well and I didn't feel anything at the time!

Pudding 
X


----------



## Harper14

Pudding congratulations that's a great number of eggs you must be pleased?

Good luck for the call today.

What drugs do you now have to take?

X


----------



## Pudding34

Thanks Harper, I had 26 follicles to begin with so was worried that was too many but the good ones got bigger and the others stayed small and I think 15 is a good number!

Funnily enough I have been going over my drug regiment in my head so here it is!

Thyroxine pill every day
Metformin 3 pills every day
Prednisalone pill every day
Aspirin solution every day
Crinone pessary every day
Claxane injection every day
Gestone injection every other day

It's not that bad really and honestly I'd gladly take a million pills/injections if it works!

Feeling really nervous about the embryologist a call today and haven't stopped thinking about it all night!

What's happening with you?

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Pudding - great news!  What clinic are you at?  

TIFF - wow!  On the way!  Seriously - stop with the age.  At three clinics they have said they are happy becuz I am young.  Plus as the youngest cousin - everyone loves you the most  

Afm - period is late, weight not great as Canada and dieting didn't go well.  Had the appt at lister and getting those tests done.  They did one and will get my GP to do the rest.  Dh has an andrologist appt today as apparently I thought we had done the DNA frag but hadn't.  We will have a follow up on the 4th.  No AF - going on 2 weeks late.  I didn't think a natural fet would have done that.  I also have a wicked sore throat!  

Considering just paying for a cycle at Lister.  I really liked the doc.


----------



## Hopefulshell

Congratulations Pudding! That's a terrific number of eggs. Keeping everything crossed for your embryologist call today  You so deserve it after all you've done to optimise your chances of success. 

Good luck to all ladies having treatment at the moment too - keep positive that this will be your time  

AFM, got our follow-up appointment tomorrow to discuss round 4! Fourth time lucky?! Not sure I have the strength to go through it another time   

After waiting the dreaded 9 months, my sis-in-law finally gave birth to a little boy yesterday. Trying desperately hard not to keep crying! Thankfully they live in Australia so at least I don't have the added pain of physically having to see my nephew which I know is a really horrible thing to say  She told me she was pregnant on the exact day we got our negative test result from the FET- seriously, you can't make these things up! so in a way I'm just relieved that the inevitable has finally arrived and I can get on with 'planning' my own journey 

Best wishes to all going through this - we'll get there one day because we soooo deserve it to go our way!! 

x


----------



## Pudding34

*Hopefulshell* that must be so awful! Take the time to grieve and be good to yourself!

*Tee* im with Bourn Hall, I really liked our doc at the Lister too!

Don't worry about your delayed AF I think that nothing is normal after a cycle, fresh or frozen you just have to go with the flow! Pun intended!

I got the call from the clinic, of my 15 eggs 14 were mature and 9 of those fertilised so that's good news plus it's about a 5% increase in fertilisation over last time! I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they all progress well!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Pud - great news! 

Hopefulshel - are you going to change clinics?


----------



## Hopefulshell

Great news pudding 

Tee I'm sticking with my clinic for my next cycle. I can't 
fault them in terms of care and professionalism. I certainly
don't think my failures are a reflection on them - rather we
collectively haven't quite got it right yet! I had a BFP in my
first cycle so praying they can work their magic again  plus
I'm an NHS patient and this next tx will be my last funded one
with them. Maybe if I go private I may change clinics? 
Hopefully it won't be necessary!!


----------



## Harper14

Pudding firstly fantastic news on the fertilisation you must be so pleased, and with regards to the drugs oh my but like you say you would take as many as you can if it means success - I have a good feeling for you this cycle

Tee - I'm the same we've been away and all I've done is eat & drink I'm struggling to get back on it!! I have my blood test t gp next week which tests are hey going to don- pudding I'm sure you've told me loads but I would be grateful if ou could remind me as I'm losing track of all these tests I'm having done!

Hopeful - good luck for follow up tomorrow I had our a few weeks ago and felt loads better after talking and putting closure on that cycle and discussing next steps. I feel the same infant today ive had another wobbler and wondered if I can go through again (and I'm only cycle one so credit to you for having the strength you have had so far!!) but then I look at this forum and the success stories and i figure I'm going to try 3 times then decide enough is enough and close the chapter on ivf. Good luck

Afm - having a wobbly day as above shows keep thinking negative and thinking it won't work for us but I know I need to think positively I'm hoping all you lovely ladies have success stories that help me keep the faith!! 

Got gp bloods next week (if someone can please remind me which ones they will do) then nk cell test next week and resent serum test off not sure what else I can do

Xx


----------



## Pudding34

Harper

Ask your GP for thyroid and thrombophillia testing.

Your thyroid should ideally be between 1& 2 for optimum fertility. If it is higher ask them about a steroid like thyroxine to get it lower. Technically a count of higher than 2 is okay for general health so you will have to specifically ask for the TSH count and if it is above 2 ask the, about medication to get it down as long as this is okay for you, I had my thyroid tested a few years ago and was told by the GP at the time it was fine, I wasn't TTC at the time and didn't ask any more questions but I wish now that I had as chances are it was pretty high even back then!

Thrombophilia is blood clotting. If your blood is clotting too easily it can restrict blood flow to the uterus and the embryo! They can give you aspirin and claxane for this to the the blood if you have a problem. I'm on both of these on this cycle as I am being treated empirically even though my tests didn't come back as having an issue.

I hope this is of help Hun, I'm not a medical expert so any info is only from my own experience!


Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

We'll done pudding...


----------



## ayah

Sorry just a quick one.  Just wanted to say big congrats on 9 fertalising Pudding.  Great news.  When is ET day?  Does your clinic wait to blast?

Hi everyone else.   to all

Ayah xxx


----------



## Pudding34

Thanks *Tiff*!

Hi *Ayah* thanks, they are taking them to blast so will be transferring on Sunday, Fathers Day, really hoping that this will be a good luck charm for us!

Hope you are well!

Pudding
X


----------



## ayah

Thats quite lovely.  They will be daddies boy/girl! Mmm am assume you'll have twins there!  Thoughts and prayers are with you and those little embies all getting toblast.

Sorrynot read for a while, Baily where are you at?

Ayahxxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi ayah long time how you doing?

My donor is retrieving tomorrow. Apparently she has 16 follicles - a lot more than I ever had!!!!

Anyone watching World Cup soccer?

Bailey thinking of you today xxx


----------



## Pudding34

Evening All

So tell 9 are still going and 5 are now 8 cells so that is good, won't get an update tomorrow as they don't take them out on yay four apparently so have to wait till Sunday to see how it's gone!

Hope you are all doing well and having a lovely Friday!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

Hi ladies, thanks for all your lovely messages. 

I'm still a little shocked to say that today I got my BFP! I am truly overwhelmed and only just about have my head around it!  

thank you for all your support   and wishing you all lots of   and  
xxx


----------



## Hopefulshell

Congratulations Bailey that's amazing news!!
Put your feet up and enjoy this special time 

Excellent progress Pudding  Try to relax tomorrow
and keeping everything crossed for transfer day 
on Sunday 

AFM had my follow up yesterday which was very 
informative. I'm staying on short protocol but having
some different meds added into the equation. Also
opted to have the hysteroscopy and endo scratch so
hopefully some of the changes will do the trick!!

X


----------



## bailey434

Hopefulshell, I had the endo scratch for the first time this time and had steroids and clexane to help with implantation, so will keep everything crossed that it will help you this time around too  
xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Pudding good progress on eggs. Hope they stick and transfer goes well, good luck


Bailey, wow that is fantastic news well done. Hopefully a month of great news all round on this thread. You must be on top of the world. Hope I join you soon  

Hopeful shell, good luck with everything. 

AFM tomorrow I find out how many eggs from retrieval of my donor. I didn't find out today as I had a work crisis and when I called them, which was still early, they had closed early. They should've let me know how many eggs she had!! Either way hoping they are good!!!!


----------



## ayah

Woow, so so happy that thete is some fantastic news here ladies.  Would jump for joy if I could!  As hard as reafing good news after a bfn is I hope that it can also give hope to eberyone else.

Ok so im jumping the gun, but theres just a lovely vibe here today.

Bailey that is such wonderful news.  When is your 7 week scan!  So excited for you! 

Pudding fantastic.  Hope that you have loads to freeze and ET.  Are you putting one or two back?  So excited for you.  Hope sunday brings a lot of renewed hope for you, that the 2ww is short and a strong 9 month long bfp is ahead of you.

Tiff,  gosh I am out of date.  Seems like this stage was weeks away and now you here.  Rubbish thatyou have to wait to hear.  All best. And dito as Pudfing!  Oh so excited for you tooooo!

All best to the rest of you.  Really hope that you get to be bfp due  febuary 2015 buddies!  If you do I will be stalKing the thread to keep up to date with you!

 to you all.  To those still recoverying from bfn, hold on in there.  Be kind to yourself.  I truelly hope that new hope will come your way and that hope will turn into your dream of a family.

Love to all

Ayah xxx


----------



## Teeinparis

Bailey - where you doing your ivf through?  That is great news!  Did you do testing for them to give you the cleaner and steroids?


----------



## bailey434

Thanks everyone for your kind kind words  

Tee I'm at The Priory in Birmingham. I didn't have testing but my consultant was happy to try clexane & steroids without immunology testing & thought that the endoscratch was worth a try too. I went into my review meeting armed with a lot of info to show how much I'd been reading!

Tiff I can't believe they didn't phone you!! Hope you manage to find out today & that they got a good batch   
Xxx


----------



## Harper14

Hi girls

Wow such positive news on this thread and probably couldn’t come at a better time for me

Pudding – great news on the embryos you must be really pleased hope you are enjoying today and relaxing in preparation for tomorrow 

Bailey – Huge congratulations its so lovely to see a BFP after a BFN and gives the rest of us hope!! What did you do different this cycle if you don’t mind me asking?

Tiffany – good luck today you poor thing not been able to find out yesterday they should have left you a voicemail or emailed you – hope you get the good news early today

Hopeful – glad your follow up was informative i also quite enjoyed ours and found it therapeutic and positive they are also wanting to keep me on the same protocol etc

AFM – having a really bad week, after all the positivity and the plan in place to do hidden C, nk cell, scratch etc I think holiday I have been overthinking things and decided this week (when stood in a post office queue to repost my samplt i had a “why are you going through this again moment” and since then have been totally researching adoption and feeling negative towards the cycle – adoption by the way is something we have always considered its just we thought we would try treatment first so we knew we have tried but I just keep thinking why shall it work this time and that it wont work – really negative thoughts so I am hoping you girls can lift me up (the BFP’s certainly have gave hope)

Sorry to be on a downer!! (it might just be holiday blues kicking in as well)

xxx


----------



## bailey434

Hi harper, sorry you are having a rough week. There are so many things to think about around infertilit/ivf/icsi/adoption that it's not surprising that it all gets over whelming.
This time around I did the following differently:
- Endoscratch before cycle started
- Increased menopur from 225 to 300 as only half the follies gave up their eggs last time around, this time got 11 eggs so more to play with so to speak
- have been on 20mg Prednisolone since EC
- have been on daily Clexane injection (40mg) since day before ET
- I read up more on diet & made sure I was eating about  70g protein a day during stimms, including a litre of organic milk a day 
- I took omega fish oils, royal jelly & coq q10 supplements on top of my pregnancy conception multi vit

I think we all have those 'why the hell am i doing all this to myself' moments so please don't feel like you are alone in that. I think it is a self preservation thing that kicks in. 

xx


----------



## Teeinparis

When do you do the endo scratch?  Before the period of the cycle start?


----------



## bailey434

I had the endo scratch on day 20 and then started down regging the next day. It was £150 & although uncomfortable it wasn't painful & very quick (less than 30 secs) so I thought it was worth a try as had read that a lot of clinics are considering doing it as the norm due to increased success rates
xx


----------



## ayah

Harper, it truely is tough.  After my last bfn i had a brakedown.  My clinic concellor and works occy health nurse, who both adopted due to IF issue, where like, why dont you adopt if you finding it so hard!  I would love to adopt rdgardless, but i felt really insulted that they were saying when times are tough give up and do something else!

Only you can know what is best for you.  If adoption is the next step then go for it.  But if you need a bit more healing time before trying again, or the reassurance that it is worth another go, then have another go.  If in a years time you would be asking yourself could it have worked? Try again.  Have you set yourself a total times to try? Mine was three.  Think thats why i had a brakedown at 2nd as my next one would have been my last chance.  By delaying it I was delaying a possible final bfn.  But i would have done it in the end.  

But researching adoption my help get you through another cycle too.  Prehaps having something else to focus on might take the pressure off a little?  

Sorry Harper, not sure if Im helping or not.  The right words dont seem to be coming out.  Prehaps I m saying if you want to stop tx then let it be because you want to adopt now, not because you feel theres no hope in one or two more tx.  There is hope. You could make no changes and it works.  But hopefully changes to your protocol or some add ons will increase those chances.  It can work.  Hell i had given up on natural tcc after 12 years of trying (well minas couple of years for divorce and last pregnacey!) So that is about say 100+ tries!    here gor you whatever you decide to do.

Bailey you are my neck of the woods!  I was at Womens but was thinking to change to Priory for the last ditch attempt.  Though the Womens did offer icsi for the price of ivf.  Think i felt bit over loyal to the Womens as i conceived DS via iui there.  But my expirence second time was no where near as good. Will be looking out for a lady with a beeming smile.  Well a third as there are 2 more Birmingham way on ff who got there bfp last week!  Well that i know of.

All best ladies

Ayah xxx


----------



## bailey434

Ayah that's great that you are at the Women's. I'm considering them for my maternity care as I am actually in Kidderminster and my nearest two hospitals are the Women's or Worcester. I work in Birmingham so the Women's seems to make more sense to me and my consultant at the Priory works at the Women's too so might even get her overseeing my care maybe and think that the Women's is quite renowned for specialist support so if needed I would be in the right place. What are your thoughts so far on your care there since your BFP?
xx


----------



## ayah

Hi ladies, if talking  pregnacey type stuff is upsetting, please skip this post.  I dont want to upset anyone.  After i wrote it i thought i should have PMd it, but cant copy n paste it.  Sorry

In  a word Baily poor.  I had DS at heartlands.  Antinatal care was good but the ward was bad and my first mw was terrible during labour.  The one who delivered DS was good though.

As a nurse and as an anxious mum I have been very disappionted with the rudeness, lack of organisation at the womens.  My community mw assessed me as needing consultant care and mw councellor but at my 12 wk appiontment i had niether but told i needed both!  I have had lletters arrive after my appiontment is due.  Staff have been rude.  Triarge staff rude. If a nurse i worked with spoke like that toa patidnt i would be down on them like a tune of bricks!  But the mw assistant were great during gtt.  Oh and my consultant team not impressed with eithet!

Thing is in another team you could have a very different expireace.  If you where happy with your Priory consultant then ask to be reffered to them spersifically and state why.  They can choose to take on your care.  Dont know much about wocester but sure one of our 5 parents in waiting is there.  Will ask.  Thing is if anything goes wrong the Womens is the place to be.  Maybe they just not good at uncomplicated care!

Saying that i also heard a very positive view of womans too.  Maybe they just hate QE nurses!

It is a mind field decideing on where to go.  Sorry not sure I helped!  Got my 28 wk scan on tuesday so will let you know if they redeem themselves!  Really want one of my work colleges to deviler as she a mw too and great.  Will tell her to do an agencey shift at the womens for us both!  Prehaps see your team at 12 weeks.  You can always change your mind.  It not easy but can be done.

Anyway hope you not too tired, sick, etc.  Take care

Ayah xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Ayah thanks for the message I too can't believe it has come so quickly!!

Harper, I'm sorry to hear you are in a bad space at the moment. You will only know what is right for you. Phony have to devise whether you feel you have done everything and will have no regrets. I did 6 IVF before the next step of donors. Not the same as adoption, but I knew 100 percent it was time. I hope you find the answer which is right for you but no matter what you do don't give up hope....something someday will change for all of us because we persevered. 

Everyone else hope you having a good weekend

AFM donor has 11 retrieved and on day 1 we have 10 left. 4 more days to go. I know it's all about quality now. So I'm preying that I am able to get quality and perhaps some to freeze. I really need this to work. 

Enjoy the Sunday xxx


----------



## Pudding34

Tiff

10 out of eleven is wonderful! I'm rooting for them!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

Great news Tiff, keeping everything crossed for them over the next few days   
xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks pudding and bailey. I'm trying to stay up to watch the soccer but feeling sleepy...


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi all, 

How has everyone's transfers gone?  

TIFF, it seems so quick with the DE. 

I am doing ****.  Just so frustrated as everyone is pregnant or giving birth this month.  If our first cycle had worked I would have been due late August!  2 nod just around my hubby's 40th.  Now is the big wait as we are getting more tests done and I have only shifted a bit of weight ..  I was doing so well in March but with a yeast infection and constpation lost the momentum.  Then got a bit depressed after the FET didn't work and I turned 35.  Now just trying so hard yet again but we decided to wait another cycle which is hard.  

Think we might just pay for a cycle at the lister as will have to postpone until sept if not.  Thoughts on Lister?  

I just thought we would have a baby this year.....

Sucks and sorry for the pity party!


----------



## Pudding34

Tee I am right there with you Hun, I thought we would have our first Christmas with our child this year but have had to review that dream!

Funny thing when I read your post I thought it said you were _doing_ a poop! Ha ha ah ha, had to read it a few times before I read it right!

I had my immunes tests at the lister and I really liked our consultant but I haven't done a cycle with them so I don't know how helpful that is!

Never be sorry for a pity party babes, we all have them and that is why we are buddies on here to help each other when it is _*POOP*_!

Big hugs Hun, we know how it feels and we are all here for you so unload whenever you feel like it!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

How were your embryo stats Pud?

Need to hear some good news.  I know the FET cycle and march cycle pretty much everyone got a bfp but then a lot of things happened.  So it would be nice to hear success right the way through.  

It is hard - do I wait to do a cycle here for free in sept....
Do I do it and hope we get it all in before the 5 august with five days as won't do 2 day this time
Do I change clinics for sept here. 

Lots of decisions!


----------



## Pudding34

Tee

That is a lot of decisions! Wish I could help but at the end of the day you have to follow your heart! What does your heart say?

We had a 4AA Blast put back on board yesterday three more good quality ones went into the freezer and I'm waiting to see if we got any 6 day blasts but haven't had the call back from the clinic yet!

I too am looking for success stories and praying to be one myself!

Pudding
X


----------



## pumpkin1975

Hi

Wanted some advice. We have our follow up at The Lister tomorrow, 2nd failed ICSI cycle, one NHS one with them. Not sure if to stay with them, go to CREATE and have three back to back (same price as Lister) Or to bit the bullet and go to SERUM as hearing lots of good things with that?? So hard, I need an independent person to advice me. I guess after tomorrow I will know If I want to stay with them or not... Who will give me my baby?

Serums offer two cycles at £3192.00 plus meds and flight etc. 
Lister £7170 including meds
CREATE 2990 per cycle stimulated IVF (might need 3 goes)

x


----------



## bailey434

Pumpkin I was considering Serum as my next possible step. Have you read the boards on Serum and how it all works, they sound so patient focused. I think someone said you can email them just for advice in terms of what they might do differently for you. I also hear that they are good with getting back to people quickly, which gives you more information to consider?
xx


----------



## Harper14

Pumpkin serum have been amazing with me and I'm only doing hidden c with them so if that's the level of care and service just for that then it's no wonder they are highly recommended

I would def cycle with them if all else failed 

How much is one cycle with them?

X


----------



## Teeinparis

Loo, that is hard as I am considering the Lister.  You have just done 1 cycle with them?

I know someone who was just successful at Serum.  

I am in the same conundrum.


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Pudding, well done for the transfer and frosties!!!! Great news

Tee, when reading your post, I just felt exactly as you have. I recently turned 35. I can remember each year saying next year this time I will celebrate eg Mother's Day. And every year the same thing. It's so heartbreaking. And people just pop them the freak out!!!! I mean literally, even those who have serious issues like substance abuse. It's so hard. I keep just telling myself that once it does happen, and it will happen....I will appreciate this more than anyone and all these hard years will be behind me. My friends and family are now finished their second kids and they have grown up...it's so hard. But we will have our day and we will be happy again. We have to keep the hope...hope you feeling better today. 

AFM, donor has 8 eggs so far lasting. They think the other 2 are not strong enough. On Wednesday I find out if they last and if I can transfer.    I am hoping that this is my time. Having donor, you can have a false optimism which is scary as when you read posts you realize donors sometimes take a long time too. But I am still optimistic as it's closer than I've ever been due to my eggs being...well terrible!!

Have a good week everyone. To those in cycle  good luck and may this be our month!!!! To those in waiting or  still fresh with BFN hope you find the strength to carry on as the tides do change and when they do, ou will be on board  we have to hope. But through this period, it is normal to feel empty and hurt and angry and everything else including ranting here. It helps...

Xxx night everyone


----------



## pumpkin1975

Thanks Bailey Harper and teeniparis. Lots to think about xx


----------



## pumpkin1975

Thank you *Tiff* for this:

Have a good week everyone. To those in cycle good luck and may this be our month!!!! To those in waiting or still fresh with BFN hope you find the strength to carry on as the tides do change and when they do, ou will be on board  we have to hope. But through this period, it is normal to feel empty and hurt and angry and everything else including ranting here. It helps...

Xxx night everyone
[/quote]

Love these kind thought. Lovely, espicially when I'm feeling so low  xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Pumpkin, hope today was a little easier   It will take time but you will feel whole again. 

AFM, I am transferring tomorrow eeeekkkk!!!! Hope the eggs have lasted enough to transfer. Let's do this!!!! My excitement has turned to fear but hopefully tomorrow is my long bad ride turning


----------



## Pudding34

Tiff

Your post and in particular _*"Let's do this!!!!"*_ has really made me smile!

I'm so happy for you, good luck for tomorrow, stay calm and relax, as much as you can!

We will be 2ww together Hun!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Lol thanks Pudding!! It's so great that we are in 2wwntogether!!!! I never thought it would be this quick. 

Hope you are resting


----------



## Pudding34

I am resting Hun! Went for a little stroll this evening with DH tend the pups to get my pessary to move around and that's as energetic as it's gotten today!

Just watching a show on TV about rescue dogs and crying my heart out! It's so awful what people do, one person dumped a puppy outside of a rescue centre and drove off the pup chased the car! I just looked at our little pup and though why would anybody be so cruel and mean as to not even take her inside! Damn these extra hormones!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Lol pudding, I know thoese hormones you are talking about....I even cry at happy things on TV when they kick in lol


----------



## ayah

Sorry this bit late, but BIG CONGRATS on the egg transfer and those on ice too Pudding.  Praying for a bigger congrats post a bfp and even bigger one at a happy 7 week scan etc.  

Tiff, all best for transfer!  Think I would find it a bit sereal.  Well if i could spell it!

Tee and Tiff, I remember hitting 30 with no sign of a bfp and 35 and no sibling.  I can only imagine how much harder it must be when trying for your first LO.  35 shouldnt feel old but it can seem it when still tcc. 

To everyone else at whatever stage  .  And thoughts

Getting soooo excited for you ladies here for a happy future with your much loved LOs.   toall.

Ayah xxx


----------



## bailey434

Tiff good luck for tomorrow, have got everything crossed for you!    
xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Tx bailey


----------



## Harper14

Tiff good luck tomorrow 

Pudding - hope you surviving the 2ww ok?

Hope everyone else is ok

AFM - good news after my wobbler I am back on track and decided I need to find the strength to go through it all again and hoping that all your positive stories on here continue to help me keep the faith!!

Nothing really to report going o gp tomorrow so ill see what bloods if any they will do, does anyone know if any have to be done at a certain time? Also how long do the results take to come back?

Also can anyone remember how long it took for serum to get their bloods? It's been a week now!

Got nk cell test next week then were on holiday so I can try & relax whilst all these results come in

X


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi All.

With all the positive news coming starting with Bailey we are going to have to come up with a name and start a new thread in long term buddies.  Get the negative outta here - 

Been a weird night for me with some test results.....being able to retrieve your own here can drive you mad.  I will wait until the am and book in to see the doc and see what an educated medical professional says.  Frankly, I think they have to be redone.  

Harper - I spent the money to overnight my sample to Serum - so I sent it yesterday and they received it today.. I just didn't trust the french post.  Plus what is a bit more money given how much we are spending.  She did say the results would be back within a few days which is good.  

Night all.  Get some good hormonal balancing sleep


----------



## Pudding34

I've been trying to find out how to setup a long term chat thread but I got no response, ill keep trying!

If any moderators see this could you let me know!

Pudding
X


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Ladies

One of the lovely moderators has said she can set us up with along term chat thread if we have a name, as Tee said we should ditch the word "negative".

How about:

The If At First You Don't Succeeders

Pudding 
X


----------



## pumpkin1975

Brilliant. I would cap the If to IF, play on words x


----------



## bailey434

Sounds like a great name to me and brilliant idea about the play on words Pumpkin!  
xx


----------



## Teeinparis

Hi.  I would call us Puddin's Possy or the pudding Pops as it was pudding who has takin us forward .


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Harper glad you feeling a little better. 

Tee, good idea about long term buddies...I think we enjoy the group even though we don't always fit the title lol. 

AFM, transfer today. We transferred back 2 grade A embryos and froze 4. All blastocysts. They wee happy with the embryos. I have never had any to freeze so this is a first for me. Nice to have FETs. Just taken it easy tonight and back at work tomorrow. For now I will act PUPO

Have a good night xxxx


----------



## Pudding34

Congrats Tiff! 

They are great grade embryos! Also great about snow babies!

Put those feet up and enjoy being PUPO!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

Fantastic news Tiff!    Now rest up and look after yourself  
xx


----------



## ayah

Tiff you go girl!  Wonderful that you got frosties too.  Siblings in waiting I hope?  When is OTD?

Pudding thank you for sorting the long term buddy thread.  Love all the ideas put forward.  Feel i have made some real vertual friends here.  Hope oneday we can meet up with our LO's.  I so so hope you all get your LOs really soon.

Love to my Pudding buddies!

Ayah xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks guys for the warm wishes

Ayah OTD is 30 June....

No symptoms yet and I associate that with my previous BFNs so I am worried. But I know this is way too early to see symptoms. Or is it? Do some people feel it 1dpt?


----------



## Pudding34

Tiff

It's way too soon for symptoms, plus some people don't get any symptoms at all and still get BFP so chillax!...............that's right I told you to chillax! That made you smile a bit didn't it!

What have you been up to today? You need to keep your mind busy!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Sorry to ask yet again - I have to wait a few weeks to see the guy at Lister and the Endocrinologist.  I don't think my FE will just put me on the thyroid meds.  

Did they just go off your TSH levels or the other ones as well?  

Did you have to reach a certain level before they would do TX?  

Also, did you go for weekly monitoring until it was down?


----------



## Pudding34

Hey Tee

My first retest was 6weeks after I started thyroxine and it was down to 1.62 by then so I didn't need to haven't monitored.

I had another test just before I started treatment, more for me that anything else ( the thyroid issue was picked up by my private consultant, NHS clinic never even checked it)  and it was 1.7 something so still within the usual ranges of normal fluctuation!

My NHS clinic didn't ask for any more info on the thyroid count or my medication!

My consultant didn't discuss the other levels with me just the TSH level and at 3.47 he said that was too high!

When is your appointment with the lister?

Pudding
X


----------



## Pudding34

Okay Ladies

I need to let the lovely moderator lady know what we want to call our long term chat!

The choices so far are:

Puddings Posse
The IF At First You Don't Succeeders

As I am indeed the Pudding referred to above in choice one I don't feel I should decide as it may seem self serving so come on guys send me your choice before midnight tonight and whichever has the most votes by then will be our name and I will arrange for our chat thread to be set up!

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

I like Pudding Posse one - or The Pudding Pops (but that is very North American so I don't know if you guys get the reference).  They were chocolate ice blocks made from pudding and advertised by Bill Cosby in the late 80s


----------



## Teeinparis

my appt with the 4 July - the Consultant is on holidays until then.  The appt with the endocrinologist is on the 8th (I couldn't get in sooner).  Plus I am going to fat camp next week


----------



## Pudding34

Okay so the choices now are the choices so far are:

Pudding Pops
Puddings Posse
The IF At First You Don't Succeeders

Let me know ladies

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi guys

Pudding I did smile at your post thanks!! You know at 2ww we are uber sensitive!!!! And anal!!!

T, they did TSH and T4 tests for my hyoid once aoff and tbh never checked my levels again! Maybe mine were a little better and it just needed a push. 

Pudding you set up this awesome chat with all these crazy peeps lol kidding, I like pudding pops or pudding pops and friends. It's your chance to be famous


----------



## Harper14

Hi ladies

Hope you pupo ladies are all getting on ok?

I've had a really bad week had a meltdown decided not to do another round and started researching adoption but just heard from our clinic that my egg share recipient got bfp on fet so now I'm confused

I just can't shake out of my mind if it didn't work first time why should it second time if that makes sense 

Help me - I'm half way down a bottle if wine and even that's not helping I feel so confused and lost 

Xx


----------



## bailey434

Hey Harper

Sorry that you are feeling all confused and befuddled!  

We could all say "if it didn't work first time why should it the second time" each time really, but we have to hope that one time it IS going to work. Did the clinic give you any more information about whether that was a positive sign for you to think about regarding possible future treatment rounds? 

I know that you will have been told this (sorry if annoying), but you do still have time on your side too, it just depends how you feel about going through treatment again, both physically and emotionally. 

My first cycle didn't work but my second one has so far   Have your clinic spoken to you about any possible additional treatment they would recommend if you were to go for another round that could help to try and give you a better chance?

Saying all that it really depends on whether you are ready to move on to thinking about other options to have a baby or whether you would be thinking 'what if' in 6 months time?

Sorry I'm not sure if I have helped and I truly know that it is not an easy decision/thought process to work through  
xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Harper, sorry to hear you are going through this. It is such a personal choice to go to the next step but you need to decide If you are ready to close the book. That news about bfp in the shared eggs is so hard but as I have seen many times on the board you can after many tries strike it lucky the next one. But the choice is such a hard one. Perhaps ask your doctor and if there are implantation issues at all. Good luck and don't give up faith no matter which road you take


----------



## Harper14

pudding i am just researching immunes and wondered who wrote you a prescription for clexane & steroids if you don't have raised Nk Cells?
x


----------



## Pudding34

My NHS consultant added claxane to my regime and my private consultant the prednisalone.

Both are often prescribed to women empirically after more than one chemical or IVF BFN.

My understanding is that there is a school of thought that the body undergoes certain changes when on the drugs and during the early stages of implantation that cannot be identified otherwise hence why some drugs are prescribed empirically.

Claxane is a blood thinner and it increases the flow of blood to the lining  to make it more receptive to the implantation process.

All clinics, and even different consultants at the same clinic, seem to have different views on drug protocols and so you sometimes have to use your own research to supplement their advice! Getting a second opinion is highly underrated and I don't think you should shy away from it if you think that you could benefit from further drugs.

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all 

On my 2ww and no symptoms at all!! It feels exactly like my other cycles where I felt normal. And sometimes you just can tell nothing is happening. I am so scared. I don't think my heart can take a fail on DEs. I know it's not over but just feeling so nervous.


----------



## Sunny12

Tiffany - I have not posted here for ages but thought I'd checking and you have just said exactly what I feel!! I am 4dp 5dt after my 5th ET and I feel exactly the same as all the other (all bfn) cycles I.e absolutely nothing at all.  Trying to think of all the people who say they felt nothing but got BFP. I am ok ATM but in two days I will be starting the worst part, the knicker watch I would like to stay this side of the 2ww!!! Xxx


----------



## Harper14

Thanks pudding I'm going to speak to my consultant they don't do immunes but I was hoping he would still prescribe me with the meds as I don't have enough time to have the nk cell before my cycle going to start and from what I've researched they would only prescribe me those drugs anyway fingers crossed but if he says no then guess I won't be able to do immunes with this cycle I e been reading ways to try and reduce naturally with fish oil and asprin but ego knows. How are you getting on I have everything crossed for you - not long now!

Tiff - try and stay positive I know easier said that done have you stepped away from testing? I never had any symptoms for weeks with my bc so it is possible try and keep strong and preoccupy yourself as much as you can.

Sunny - good luck 

Afm - after my two week wobbler I feel strong enough to continue whilst I really so like the idea of adoption I need to explore a few more cycles but try changing as much as I can. Ideally want to try with mines this cycle but as you can see above I don't have enough time as I have been matched to do another cycle going for scratch next month so hoping consultant will prescribe me the clexane and steroids not holding out much hope 

Xx


----------



## Pudding34

*Harper *you can only ask the questions! If they say no and you are still not happy seek a second opinion.

I have come to realise that IVF is in the most part all about guesswork and trial and error but you do have to be proactive asking the questions can't hurt!

Hi *Sunny* another negative cycle buddy on the 2ww how are you doing today?

*Tiff* how are you doing buddy?

*AFM*i have three days left of the 2ww and I'm going slightly crazy! I'm over analysing every little possible symptom until I go nuts! Wish I could sleep through till OTD on Wednesday!

Love to you all and positive vibes to my fellow 2wwaiters!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi guys

Thanks fit the messages. 

Sunny - I am also 5dp5dt today. I thought the implantation bleed would be yesterday or today according to the days. Is this not the case?
Good luck to you too. It's not easy esp after past failed cycles. 

Harper - good luck for the next one glad you made your choice. I will only test OTD 30 June. Prefer to have definite. Thanks for sharing the no symotoms. I hope it is my case too!!

Pudding, I'm feeling quite down, but trying to stay positive. Just hard time...how are you feeling. When are you testing? Have you been experiencing symotoms.


----------



## Pudding34

Hi Tiff

Im feeling like this 2ww, which is really only 10 days for me, is endless!

I had hot flushes 1dp5dt
And I've had cramps and odd tingling sensations off and on since then! But have wondered if it's all in my mind!

Had heart stopping moment when I thought it was bleeding on Friday, my first cycle ended after I started spotting brown on day 4 but it stopped and although I had a bit more last night it's still brown so I think it is crinone pessary related! Why oh why do the progesterone support pessaries give you a side effect that makes you think you are bleeding? It's just another evil form of torture!

Had a bit of a headache last yesterday and feel exhausted all the time but again am I just imagining that these are symptoms because I want them to be so much?

OTD is on Wednesday the 25th not sure if I will hold out till them though!

What about you? Any symptoms? Will you hold on to the 30th?

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi pudding. Although you can never tell  some of thoese symptoms sound promising. I hope so!! Hopefully this thread will be full of BFPs after bialy started the trend here. 

My symptoms are zero. Feel the same. Exactly like my other z2ww. Will wait for OTD 30 June as I don't think I can trust a HPT. Good luck!! Hope it goes well for both of us


----------



## Pudding34

Perhaps Bailey is our good luck charm!

I'm really hoping that this  is our time it would be wonderful if it is!

Lots of love and good cycle luck!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

I hope so tooxxx


----------



## Sunny12

Pudding/Tiffany - pleeeeeeeease can we have a hat trick of bfp's!!!!! How axing would that be I knicker watch cos usually 2 days before OTD I get spotting so I am petrified of getting some! Totally true about everything else making you feel like period is coming and/or you are pregnant. I have had everything I think I can thus time, prenesalone, clexane, scratch etc etc. OTD Thirs, I hate testing part! Xx


----------



## Pudding34

Sunny

Are you testing Thursday? Your signature says 25th that's Wednesday same as me!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

I really hope so too for you all!!    
xx


----------



## Sunny12

Pudding - thanks for pointing that out!! I have updated.

Baily - thank you!! Huge congratulations to you! Brilliant news. Hope time passes quick to your scan and seeing your little one (s) on screen!! Xxxx


----------



## Tiana

Hello Ladies,
I am not sure if its on this thread that i should post..
I am 11dp3ddet. I have had no symptoms at all... No AF cramps, no back pain, nothing absolutely nothing at all not even me trying hard to 'spot things' 
My OTD is 26Th of June but tested this morning and is negative.
I am feeling numb really, this is my 3rd try with DE. I am now thinking my body doesn't want to get pregnant.
I am sorry for the me post but I am single and have not told a soul about my treatment.
My ex provided me with his sperm as I asked him and he agreed. He knows my test day is on Thursday so I cant really call him now to tell him is a negative result.
So finding the all thing difficult.
Sorry to upset you with this negative post...
Tiana.x


----------



## Pudding34

Tiana

This thread was started for those of us that have experienced a negative cycle but has kind of evolved for some of us that have moved on to more treatment.

You are welcome to join us although it isn't really a cycle thread!

I also set up a cycle thread for those of us who have experienced failed cycles http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=320760.msg5838860#new and you would be most welcome to join us there!

There is also a 2ww thread that may offer you some support as you are now in the 2ww.

Your test isn't until Thursday Hun so just because it is BFN right now doesn't mean it won't change! It could still be too early to test!

I hope you do join the other thread and we can chat!

Take care Hun!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Good luck sunny. OTD is soon?! I agree I hope there is a influx of BFPs here. 

Tiana I am sorry to hear. I too am in DE cycle and no symptoms at all. OTD 30 June. It's so hard. But you still have a few days until,the official date, don't give up HPT can be unreliable. Good luck xxx


----------



## Harper14

Hi all

Hope everyone is ok?

Pudding - good luck for tomorrow I've been thinking about you and have a good feeling - try & get an early night.

Teen - have you had hidden c test back yet? They got mine last thurs but not had the results hoping not too much longer.

Sunny & tiff hope you are both coping ok?

Afm
I've got my treatment plan today it's all becoming real again but I feel relaxed which is a good sign, I've decided for my own peace of mind I've got to try 2 more times this fresh & frozen and if not succesful then I know it will be time to move on. 

Thanks to everyone for their kind words of encouragement and support over the past few weeks especially my wobbler

X


----------



## Pudding34

Thanks Harper!

I'm glad you have your new treatment plan and you feel better! Having a plan always helps doesn't it!

I think you decision is very wise, you would always wonder otherwise!

Big hugs Hun!

Pudding
X


----------



## Sunny12

Harper - nothing better than the rush you get from having a plan!! Good luck.

How are the other 2wwers getting on? I had brown spotting and a small clot yesterday which is my usual pattern for AF so looks like I am out again. 5th try, how can this be true?

Xxxx


----------



## Pudding34

Oh Sunny big hugs Hun!

Are you sure it's not just pessary related discharge?

Are you tempted to test just to see? When is your OTD?

I've had brown/ black discharge for four days now, still praying for that BFP tomorrow.

Pudding
X


----------



## Sunny12

Pudding - it is the same as every cycle so hard for me to think it is anything other than the end. Not at all to say is same for you, I have seen plenty where is is still a BFP so def keep your PMA! I hate testing so not tempted. Emailed my Dr who has suggested bloods tomorrow to see if problem with my cyclogyst levels and she will do hcg as well, OTD Thurs.

Huge huge good luck to you Pudding, will look out for your post xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Pudding34

If your doc is doing bloods tomorrow will you get the results tomorrow?

Pudding
X


----------



## Sunny12

I think so, test at 11am so hopefully before end of day xxxx


----------



## Pudding34

So tomorrow will be your new OTD then, we will be testing together!

I'm praying it's BFP for us both!

Big hugs Hun! Stay strong!

Pudding
X


----------



## Sunny12

Pudding - not even thought of it like that but yes you are right!!!!!!! Big hug and good luck to you too! Like Thelma and Louise looking over the edge, will hunt out a headscarf!!! Xxxx


----------



## Pudding34

You know Thelma and Louise died right? Maybe not the best comparison! 

Pudding
X


----------



## Sunny12

that raise a smile (putting headscarf quietly away) xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all 

Harper I'm glad you have made a decision and are at peace that if it comes to the next stage, you know you have closure. But it won't come to the next stage!! Streaming BFPs here. 

Sunny and pudding. Good luck both with OTD. It's such a nerve wrecking time. I really hope the best for both of you. We are here for you no matter what!! But hopefully to join Bailey     Thinking of you both xxx

AFM still no symptoms at all. Wishing for any sign but not coming. I'm scared but also still hoping that I am that exception that doesn't get symptoms. I know I'm harping on about this for the last few days, just such a hard process and so hard to feel noting!!!! Hoping BFP will be the final outcome. 

Good luck OTD-ers!!


----------



## Pudding34

Morning Ladies!

It's a BFP here! 

Oh my god I cannot believe I am writing this!

Couldn't sleep and physically couldn't put off peeing anymore so did the test at 4:30am!

I used the clinics test, a CBD and an FRER

The CBD said Pregnant 1-2, the FRER has two lines of almost equal strength and colour and the hospital test has two lines although the test line is more faint than the control line which the instructions say is still positive but worries me a little!

So now I just have to wait to do the blood test to make sure it's not chemical after everything we have been through this fear is stopping me from enjoying this as much as I want to!

But I have never had a positive test on OTD before! That in itself is an achievement!

Just keeping my fingers crossed for that beta test! Going to get up early and be at their door when they open up!

Pudding
X


----------



## melbg

Yay Pudding! I thought you might be up early today!!
Congrats on making otd, I really hope this means you have a sticky bean or 2.
xx


----------



## Harper14

Pudding - I was thinking of you this morning....... congratulations I am so pleased for you I had a feeling you would get bfp I'm sure the bloods will confirm the same 

Xx


----------



## Pudding34

*Melbg* & *Harper* thank you both so much for your messages and for thinking of me !

I'm still in shock I think!

The test line on the clinic test didn't come up straight away and my heart dropped to my stomach, I turned away but my DH was a looking and he said, hang on it's there and then the CBD came up Pregnant 1-2 and the lines appeared on the FRER!

I can't go back to sleep, unlike DH, and can't stop looking at the tests!

I just want to get the blood test done and it to be okay so I can allow myself to get excited!

Pudding
X


----------



## Harper14

Enjoy the moment it sounds positive if all 3 of your tests are strong but i understand why you are being cautious - hopefully the bloods will put your mind at rest

I'm so pleased and it's given me the hope I need!!

Out of interest do you have to continue with and of the drugs?

X


----------



## Pudding34

I hope so too Hun!

Yeah I think I have to continue all the meds until 12 weeks but will be confirming with the docs ASAP!

Pudding
X


----------



## Sunny12

Pudding - what brilliant news to wake up to!!!!! Huge huge congratulations!!!! Enjoy every second xxxxxxxxx


----------



## Teeinparis

Brilliant news


----------



## Pudding34

Thanks Tee!

Good luck for the test today Sunny!

Pudding
X


----------



## pumpkin1975

Fantastic news pudding! Congratulations. All the best with the bloods!


----------



## Pudding34

Thanks Pumpkin!

Pudding
X


----------



## ayah

Pudding, I could cry with happiness.  Back from work and first thing wanted to do was check in and so so pleased!!!!  when do you get yoir blood results back?

Sunny praying it good news for you too.

Love to all

Ayah xxx


----------



## Sunny12

Well.......    I can't actually believe it!!! They called and by hcg is 70!!!!!! Retest Friday to check it has doubled xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

How you feeling pudding?? Xx


----------



## Pudding34

*Sunny* Congratulations babe! That is great news! We really seem to have a good streak going here!

I keep thinking to myself hey I'm pregnant and it's such a lovely feeling!

*Ayah*

Thanks for the congratulations Hun! Means so much to me to know you are all still there supporting me!

I got the bloods back and it was 146 initially I was worried as my consultants sec said that may be a bit low but after some checking it seems it's actually not low and the more important thing is how it is doubling so I'm going to have the test again on Friday!

So hard to relax and fully enjoy it with a history of chemicals but that is just a defensive reaction!

How are you doing sweetie?

Pudding
X


----------



## Harper14

sunny - congratulations lets hope the good news keeps coming 

pudding when is your bloods? 

AFM - I am booked for scratch 18th july and then treatment to start the following month. I am just waiting for hidden c results they got my sample a week ago - how long did you all have to wait?

also I went to the GP for bloodclotting & thyroid test but only the blood clotting test come back so far and it means nothing to me so hoping someone (pudding ha ha) can help me interpret the results

1 stage pro thrombin type 10.9
Thrombin type observation 14.6
Fibriongen level 2.2
lupus incentive activated partial thromboplastin time 26.5

GP has said normal levels but I know that doesn't mean normal for TTC 

I have also been recommended to take resveratrol & omega 3 tablets so I have started them

also pudding want to ask you some questions (you are now my guru especially with your success)

1) how much metformin did you take & when did you start?
2) when did you start the steroids, cleaxane & aspirin
3) did you change anything with your diet this time round?

thanks girls x


----------



## bailey434

Congrats Sunny, brilliant double pregnancy news today for you and Pudding!!   
xx


----------



## ayah

Oh my goodness!  Sunny I am actually crying for joy now!!!

Will be holding my breath for you both for doubling levels on Friday?  And Tiff holding it for you for Sunday.  Any more fainting at work will be down to you lovelies keeping me on tender hooks for more wonderful news!!!

Pudding you are my first FF buddy, will stalk you here till you leave, though think youd make a good volunteer.

Tiff I had no early symptoms with this bfp, so really hope that your lack symptoms isnt significant too.  I didnt get them till few weeks in unlike with chemical and DS when I knew pre OTD  that I had symptoms.  Keep the hope sweetie.  Hope the next gew days fly by.   

Haper I used to work with an Endocronologist who told me ideally to be on metformin for three months before IF tx but that shorter than that can still help, in same way as folic acid should be from three months before but less than three months still benificial. Said 500mg three times a day or 800mg twice a day.  The 100mg difference not significant apparently.  My consultant in Algeria did prescribe 800mg three times day but the side effects too much for me.  Not sure if it different practice there.

Was speaking to a girl from our R&D who has an 18month old.  She told me they'd been ttc for 5 years and had few mc and chemicals, but once the immunes and clotting addressed they had their DS.  Seems that they make all the difference.  

Praying for the good news to keep on going

Take care my lovlies

Ayah xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Pudding and sunny I am so happy for you both!! What beat news to come onto this thread and find  you guys plus ayah first then bailey have turned this thread luck around. Please let it continue!!!! Mine on Monday. 

Sunny did you get any 2ww symptoms? Pudding I know you got some?

You guys must be on top of the moon. 

Harper

I also take intagram injections. Not sure if yours are the same for immune system. Once a week.

So glad for you guys  congrats!!


----------



## Pudding34

*Ayah*, you are such a sweetheart! Your post brought even more tears to my eyes!

*Harper * I'm really sorry but I can't help with the thrombophillia test, can you show the results to your clinic and see what your consultant says? Alternatively have you posted the question on here on other threads? Perhaps Agate can help?

In regards you other questions my replies are:

1. I started on 2 500mg a day back in January, when I saw my other private consultant in April she suggested that I up it to three a day which I am on now on.

2. I started the other drugs;
Claxane day of EC
Prednisalone first day of Stimms
Aspirin first day of Stimms

3. I made so many changes to both of our diets and lifestyles over the last six months, more fresh fruit and veg, more red meat, a lot less alcohol and cut it out completely about 2-3 months ago, more exercise.

Hope some of this helps Hun!

Big hugs to all you lovely ladies!

Pudding
X


----------



## Pudding34

Thanks Tiff, I'm keeping my fingers crossed of you for Monday!

Pudding 
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks pudding xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Pudding just remind me - you did get symotoms?


----------



## Pudding34

I've had cramping on and off since transfer, the day after transfer I had hot flushes but it's hard to know as it was a warm day so could have been unrelated!

I've had a couple of headaches and I have been peeing like a racehorse!

I'm also burping a lot and it's got worse in the last couple of days! Very unladylike!

I don't know how much of this is pregnancy related and how much is because of the drugs, I am on quite a cocktail now so some of these symptoms could be because of the drugs!

Have you had any symptoms?

Pudding
X


----------



## ayah

Pudding may the abundance of tears of joy continue as hopfully one by one we become rather hormonal!  May we all sob at andrex adverts for no other reason than being pregnant!  

Tiff, have i got another day to hold my breath?  Sorry got no memory at best of times but sure it worse in the heat!  You sound a bit anxious about it all?  I know my saying dont wont help so a    to show I care.  I really am hoping your bfp just days away.

Tee hope you doing OK.  So hoping your turn is imminant too.  Take care  

Oohhh ladies will the bfn budfies be going part 2 soon?

Pudding have you been able to set up a long term buddy chat thread?  

Must try and sleep.  Just soo excited!

Ayah xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi guys

Pudding no, unfortunately not one symptoms from inception. Thus the reason I am so scared to test. 

Lol ayah yes one more day. Thanks, I am anxious. More so than any cycle before. What can you do..

I have never HPT but this weekend may for the first time be tempted. I don't think so but maybe. Do you just get a normal test? From pharmacy? And pee in morning? 

Hope you guys have a good night.


----------



## Sunny12

Thanks all really not suck in yet, I was so sure it was bfn!!! Ayla hope you can get to sleep xxxx

Tiffany - my only symptoms were ones that felt like every month that AF was coming. My boobs are slightly sore but mainly from me squeezing them to see if they are sore!  Apart from wanting to cry thinking about it I don't "feel" any different to normal xxxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks sunny


----------



## ayah

Tiff it so understandable.  Think we all look for any tiny sign, but absents really not a bad sign.  

Sunny lol I did that boob checking thing.  When at about 7 weeks they started to get pionty, every time they relaxed I went nervous all was over and be prodding and checking every 5 min!  Oh and when you going to update your signiture?  

No sleep too hyper!  

Ayah xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

You due soon ayah?


----------



## Pudding34

Tiff

I have seen lots of women on here say they had no symptoms and were convinced it hadn't worked but it had so don't worry about lack of symptoms!

I have a friend who got pregnant naturally and didn't even realise for three months as nothing changed for her! Not the same for is IVF girls I know but just highlighting my point!

If you are going to test early my advice is use a clear blue digital to avoid trying to decipher lines, use first morning urine and don't be too disheartened if it's negative testing early brings a risk of a false negative so you have to take it with a pinch of salt!

In regard to the long term buddy thread I still don't have a consensus on a name! Once I have that I can have it set up for us!

Pudding
X


----------



## Hopefulshell

Hi ladies

Not been on FF for a bit so lovely to hear the 
fantastic bfps! Congratulations Pudding & Sunny 
Hope all's going well and you are enjoying this 
incredibly special time 

Good luck to those with pending OTDs and who
are currently going through tx. Be great to turn 
this negative thread into a positive one for us all 

AFM in between txs at the moment so continuing with
my healthy diet and exercising in the interim -the 
usual! Hearing good news on here gives me the 
strength to consider going for round 4 later this year 

X


----------



## Sunny12

Ayah - profile updated!!! Did test this morning as it is official OTD so feel able to put in the BFP    still buzzing!!

Hopeful shell - this last cycle I was the best I have ever been with the continuing with the supplements and healthy eating. Previous gaps between I had been a bit slack with vitamins etc up until just before re starting. Fingers crossed thus is your time xxxxxx


----------



## ayah

Sunny, congratulations again for the official OTD!  Have you told anyone yet?  And you Pudding?.  Know its early days but wondering if anyone guessed as Im sure you to bern beaming all day!

Tiff Im 29+2.  So getting there

Hopefulshell, good on you for keeping up the good diet n lifestyle.  Girl at work is eating two kewi a day as its meant yo be good along with loads of other bits.  She our work Pudding.  Loads if research into whats good or bad.  Shes had 2 early mc, and hystoscopy for endo couple months ago.  They may need ivf but told to ttc natural again first.  Im a total comfort eater and just never kept up the good work then got mad with self.  

Bailey hows it going? Your smile still shineing or is it hiding behind morning sickness and fatigue now?  Hope you doing Ok.

Tee hi too.  Know Ive missed people but hope that you all managing at whayever stage you are at.  And     for the difficukt times.

Take care all

Ayah xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi all

Pudding thanks for the HOt tips. I will decide which way to go. 

Well done for OTDers who bfp officially. 

Ayah wow that's far into the pregnancy. 

Hopeful - WB

AFM I'm sick of being down about no symptoms. I am dreaming big and still want to have hope for BFP despite the lack of signs. 



So today dh and I went for dinner after finishing work quite late and decided despite lack of symptoms we still going to be hopeful and positive and we hopefully going to get that BFP. You just need to dream big!!


----------



## ayah

Tiff good on you!  Dreaming big with you babe!


----------



## bailey434

*Tiff * we are all hoping the same for you, hang in there lady    

*Ayah*, I'm doing ok thanks, have heightened sense of smell still and keep sniffing the dog and saying 'does she smell??' to anyone who will listen, and have fallen asleep a few times infront of the tv for a nap  It's weird cos not many people know yet and my scan is on the 7th but still won't be telling until probably 12 weeks at the earliest (unless I can't hide it) but my one friend at work who knows say I'm doing well at hiding it 

Only about 10 weeks to go for you then, well done!  How are you feeling??
xx


----------



## Pudding34

Im dreaming for you as well Tiff!

Bailey, I have had the strong sense of smell for about a week now! In fact I think I offended my parents! I was hugging their dog and I said ooh his ears are a bit smelly, has he been swimming In the river again? He does this a lot and his ears seem to  retain the smell as you know spaniels do! And they said no we just washed him! They both looked kind of hurt!

I sniffed his ears again and they definitely were smelly to me but nobody else noticed it!

I said sorry it must be the heightened sense of smell which is a good thing but Im not sure it helped! 

I also said sorry to the dog for calling him smelly and he just gave me the sad spaniel face! I felt awful!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

Haha well that was like me the first weekend after my BFP when I had washed the dog and a few hours later when she was bone dry I still was sniffing her and saying 'she really smells' and my Mum was like 'no she really doesn't, apart from of nice shampoo!'  

Oh yes spaniels should trademark that sad face, my Dad used to say that Bailey's eyes could melt chocolate and that she was always looking at him as if to say 'no-one has fed me for weeks....honestly....please can I have a treat....?? '  
xx


----------



## Sunny12

Sad spaniel face!! Nothing pulls at the heart strings more surely?

Ayah - wow so close for you, v exciting. Told my Mum and my two closest friends (one of whom was at ET with me!). DH told his parents and bro and sis, everyone has been instructed to keep a lid on any excitement just yet!! Difficult to do!!

Just done blood test now heading back to "work from home" and wait for call xxxxxxx


----------



## Pudding34

The spaniel sad face is a very powerful thing, my dad's spaniel has been teaching it to our border collie puppy though and he looks at you just the same, face down, eyes up pleading for food even though he has just eaten! And he eats a lot!

The funniest thing is when we are all eating together, me and my mum and dad had sandwiches the other day at lunchtime and all three dogs went to my Dad (aka the softest touch) once they had bled him dry they moved on to the next person to get food from, me! Then the slowest eater, who may or may not hand something over, my mum!

They move as a pack and sit very obediently I'm front of each person in turn!

My Dad eats the fastest so they know go to him first or it will all be gone, plus he always saves them a little something from his plate!

Barney has also tried recently offering the paw if he thinks you have food, without being asked, he just holds his little paw up and looks sooooooo sad!

Sunny I've had my sample drawn too, it's just the waiting game now isn't it! It drives me crazy sitting here just waiting!

That actually sums up IVF pretty well doesn't it, waiting waiting waiting and more waiting!

Pudding
X


----------



## bailey434

Haha yes, Mexi has learnt to sit REALLY still right next to you when you are eating as if she is saying 'look how good I am, I really deserve a little bit of whatever it is you are eating...' and then if you continue to ignore her she sits up and begs like a meerkat! They definitely know which buttons to press don't they!  

Good luck with the blood tests both, let us know when you hear!
xx


----------



## Sunny12

my mum has my 1 year old niece one day a week and her spaniel/lab cross has learned that sitting under her at meal times is very profitable....!!!!

Pudding - I am doing something v random to try and keep relaxed and pass the time... nope not work,,, I am doing a jigsaw!!!

xxxx

xx


----------



## Pudding34

Kim does the meerkat! It's very disarming isn't it, you think wow if she's doing that she must really want some of what I am eating!

Recently she has also started salivating! She is on the steroids still so I think that makes her hungry but it goes everywhere and is kind of gross!

Sunny that is one very clever dog little kids are always dropping food!

I'm doing my cross stitch project to keep me from going insane here! My bloods were back at about 2ish on Wednesday so I'm hoping it will be the same today!


Pudding
X


----------



## Pudding34

Sunny

Have you had the result yet? 

I just got mine and it's 283 so it's pretty much doubled in 48 hours so I can finally enjoy being newly pregnant ladies, thanks of all your support over the last couple of days!

Pudding
X


----------



## Sunny12

Hi pudding just 10 mins ago!! What a wait! So it was 70 on 8dp5dt and it is 153 10dp5dt so all good and going in right direction!!  Phew what a day eg? Scan on 15th July xxxxxx


----------



## Pudding34

That is great news Sunny it's about the same as mine on day 10!

It has been a horribly long day hasn't it!

But we can relax now and enjoy being newly pregnant!

Pudding
X


----------



## Sunny12

Pudding yours look great so I am more than happy to have similar levels!!! Enjoying myself another happy cry....

Xxx


----------



## bailey434

Great news for you Sunny too, well done!  
xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

I did HPT and I'm not pregnant. Bloods Monday. I just knew it as much as I tried to kid myself I between. I just feel so broken. Again another IVF failed 7. And this one was donor eggs wtf is so wrong with me. And the best thing is there are never answers from any doctors. Now it's not egg quality then what is!!


----------



## Pudding34

Tiff

First big big big hug hunni!

Secondly it's not over yet, I have read about women on here who tested negative the day before OTD and then positive on the day so there is always hope!

You have been so strong so far through all your treatment this one included don't give up now babe you can make it to OTD and whatever happens we will all be here for you to help and support you but as they say it ain't over till the fat lady sings and my mouth is clamped tightly shut!

One day at a time babe, just take the next days one at a time and deal with OTD when it arrives okay!

Lots of love sweetheart

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks pudding. My test is Monday. I know for definite it hasn't worked. I have no hope left. You just know....and I used the digital clear blue. And with donor you don't have as much inaccuracies as the meds you take are different. What do I do now!!!! What can it be. And if implantation, how do you fix that


----------



## Pudding34

Okay sweetie I'm going to indulge your negativity just for a little bit! 

It doesn't mean I agree with you but I know how annoying it is when people tell us to stay positive when our gut is saying so,etching else but once again I don't necessarily agree that it is over already, if you are not bleeding that is a good sign so hold on to that while we chat okay!

Forgive me if we have discussed this before but have you done the immune tests and the hidden infections tests? Has PCOS and thyroid problems been ruled out?

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi pudding. 

I am on thyroid meds due to levels, and he has given me immune injections even though I didn't do the tests. What is the hidden injections test? They have never found PCOS would they pick this up from a scan. What I have had is very very bad endometriosis and very bad scarring but they say I should still implant. I don't think so though. I was just so hoping this would be the one. And even though I knew in 2ww you still try and hope. 

How do you detect implantation problems? And what can you do for it.


----------



## Pudding34

Tiff

Hidden infections tests for things like ureasplasma and chlamydia in the AF blood rather than the cells of the cervix, you can have a latent infection that you don't know about from normal testing.

I had mine done with Serum in Greece, it's not very expensive in the scheme of other fertility tests and worth doing, if there are positives they will treat you and your DH with a long dose of antibiotics it can all be done over the phone and email, check out their website they are really helpful and if you ask how to get the tests done they will email you loads of info!

What immunes injections are you on? Is it intralipids? Im on prednisalone as a "to be sure" measure even though my NK cells came back fine, there are more than one type of treatment for raised NK cells so perhaps you should consider getting them tested properly as they also test the best treatment for them to get the right plan!

I'm also on Aspirin Claxane and Gestone this time, aspirin and claxane empirically as I don't have Thrombophilia but it's worth trying and gestone as I don't seem to metabolise the progesterone pessaries that they give us here, don't know if you have these!

The aspirin and claxane increase blood flow to the lining and allow the embryo to connect better when it tries to implant!

Sweetheart nothing is over till it's over okay so all of the above is just a back up plan in case the worst happens on Monday, please try to stay as positive as you can, you have been so brave and so strong and you just have to hold on for two more days and then we can deal with the outcome if we have to!

I just re read what I have written above and it all seems so inadequate when I know how much pain you are in right now and I wish I could do more to reassure you.

Please now I am praying for you and you are in my heart!

Pudding
X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks for the info pudding, I will ask my doctor. I know it's nit over til Monday, but I also just know. No hope left unfortunately.  

Will ask him for some answers in Monday as well.


----------



## ayah

Oh Tiff   my dear ff friend.

I agree with Pudding but like shes also said it hard to hear not to give up when your gut says no.

Try stay positive.  If it really is bfn you still have a frostie?  And even a women with no IF issues can still take more than one attempt to get a bfp.

I appricate that looking to future hope is hard right now but it anit game over.  You are a remarkably stronge woman.  Its so hard to walk through this intensly hard difficult time but you will get through it.  

I thought that implantation issues you still get an iintial bfp, though prehaps faint,  but as the embryo doesnt implant it then fades.  Have you had scratch?  And metformin for pcos is ment to help with implantation.  Not sure if it only makes differents if you have pcos though.

Still praying that all will turn round for you.


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks ayah. I have frosties. I can use them. Just need to get a root cause of what's going in.


----------



## Sunny12

Tiffany -      I am so so sorry, I really hoped this was your time after everything you have been through. Is a change of clinic an option? Xxxxxxxxccc


----------



## bailey434

Tiff I am so sorry if it is a BFN but praying that it will change before Monday.  In terms of implantation issues there is a good book called Is your Body Baby Friendly by Dr Alan E. Beer that I started reading this time that deals with unexplained infertility, miscarriage and ivf failure that might be worth getting hold of? I got it off amazon easily. 
Keeping everything crossed over the weekend for you though  
xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks Bailey xxx


----------



## melbg

I have a copy of the book Bailey's talking about, happy to post to you!
And at the risk of being a pita, my clinic here wouldn't accept negative on any hpt (even a very sensitive line test-not the less sensitive digis) until 16dp5dt at the earliest. When I called in my negative on otd in April I was told to stay on the meds for another 3 days and test again, although when I explained I'd had positives in the days prior they allowed me to choose to come off my meds on otd. But really, that means they don't accept it until 19dp5dt, which you are a way off yet. I'm going to do the hope thing for you for the next 2 days!!

I agree with the others though, the backup plan needs to consist of tests and proper answers for you before using those precious frosties.

http://www.serum-ivf.com/contact - contact form for Serum in Athens for hidden infection blood tests and ask for a consult with Penny. She seems to work miracles for long-timers and suggest things that other Drs don't.


----------



## ayah

Melbg is she the consultant who featured in itv program on the quods concevied from two embies from ivf in Greece?


----------



## melbg

ayah said:


> Melbg is she the consultant who featured in itv program on the quods concevied from two embies from ivf in Greece?


Yes she is. Serum is also where Agate (from the immunes board) went for treatment, and she raves about them!


----------



## Sunny12

Tiffany - for some reason I could not see the messages between your post and mine. After my 4th bfn I has my lining tested for receptivity it was called era, they sent a little bit of my lining to Spain and they tested if it was receptive or not. Might be worth a try? Just to rule it out. They send it in the day you'd be having ET under same conditions (ie taking same drugs etc). Mine came back receptive. And that was exactly what day and conditions we did transfer under this cycle. The other last who'd also had this test had it come back unreceptive so they re did the test the next month but a day later in cycle and it came back receptive, she did a full treatment and delayed ET a day later than had in all previous cycles and she got pregnant (she'd had 7 bfn's before). Not sure if this helps 

Xxxxxxc


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks Mel. I'm holding on til OTd Monday. I have emailed serum. Thanks for the contact!!


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks sunny. Do you know what the place in Spain is called?


----------



## Sunny12

I think it was Iviomonics but will look it up. I did it through the Lister xxxxx


----------



## Sunny12

Iviomics xxxx


----------



## ayah

Wow Sunny that sounds like such an effective test.  Amazing for your friend to get her bfp.  Hope shes doing well.

Tiff hope that the new ideas are helping.  Still got my breath held for Monday.

Pudding and Sunny I tried to PM you but it would not senf.  You will have to imagine my sentiments and congrate on goid bloods.

Must tidy my room. It such a tip.  Cant even get hoover in.  Like a teenagers room.  I want to wallpaper and give it a freshen up.  Oh and theres the washing done!  

Oh forgot to say how I really enjoied the doggy eyes posts!  No dogs here just fish.  My mum has ring necked parakeet.  He has to be caged when we eating or he'll land in your dinner and help himself!  When hes in his cage though he'll run up and down his branch bobbing his head screaming till you give him food.  He'll then eat a bit throw it on the floor and do it again till he's got a bit of everything!  Not cute at all. Dogs at least show apprication.  Honey would bite your fingure off given the chance to get more food.

Take care

Ayah xxx


----------



## bailey434

Tiff thinking of you today with the bloods, have everything crossed for you  
xx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Official BFN - sorry to break the luck 

Thanks for all your support X


----------



## bailey434

So sorry to hear your news Tiff, I know there is nothing we can say to make you feel better so sending you a big  . Hope you are being looked after
xxxxx


----------



## Sunny12

Tiffany -      Xxxxxx


----------



## Pudding34

Tiff

I'm so very sorry my love, as Bailey said there is nothing we can say to make things better but please know that I am thinking of you and I wish I could reach out and give you a real hug!

Hope DH is looking after you, be kind to yourself and if you want to talk you know where we are!

Pudding
X


----------



## ayah

Tiff so very sorry.    .  

Ayah xxx


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks everyone. Met with doctor and all he could say was it's not my body. Even though donor eggs looked perfect it meant the chromosomes were not on donor. Thus still attributing fully to the donor egg. Does that make sense? Ie. I can't do anything more. Even my endometriosis is on outside on womb nit inside and won't affect it. 

Either way. So basically it's a numbers game and few eggs have good chromosomes. Even donor. 

Again thanks for the support.


----------



## Sunny12

Tiffany - that makes sense totally. Even with a run of the mill "normal" crop of eggs only a certain amount of them are ever made up in the way that would create a baby. It is not you and it is great the dr stressed that. On donor threads etc it is not that they all get pregnant first time with donor from what I can see.

Hope getting that news helped and you are feeling a bit better

Xxxxx


----------



## Pudding34

Tiff

IVF, no matter what route we take, is always a numbers game, just because this DE cycle didn't work doesn't mean another won't.

When you are ready I know you will be brave and strong to try again and we are all here to support you sweetie!

Big hugs 

Pudding
X


----------



## pumpkin1975

Big hugs tiff xxx


----------



## Harper14

TIFF - I am sorry I know that no words can make it any better. My donor didn't get pregnant first time but for pregnant on frozen so it just goes to show - keep the faith!

I've had my serum results back all negative except ureaplasma does anyone know what this is, how it would effect is & treatment I'm just waiting for serum to get back to me 

X


----------



## Teeinparis

Harper - mine came back with the same.  I am going to talk to the doc at lister before taking the antibiotics.  My FE here ran another test as he didn't want me to go straight on th Abs.  He said it just meant I had come in contact with it.


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks for all the support still raw but will get stronger each day. Harper, did you need to go to Greece for tests?


----------



## Harper14

TIFF no I didn't I just sent off the test also they have been so helpful and caring more informative than anyone and I'm not even cycling with then but if this fails I def will do a cycle with them.

If you email them they send you a questionnaire and the advice they give free is invaluable they are the ones that have advised me of all my vitamins and supplements which I'm trying this time round I would def recommend emailing them.

X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks. Nice that you can do tests from here. I have application. Filling it in  

What are your next steps?


----------



## Harper14

Well I'm booked for scratch and the end of this month and started eating better etc (although ate a huge slice of chocolate cake tonight  ) started on resveratol & omega 3 fish oil both recommended by serum.

Starting metformin Monday (that's for my pcos) waiting for my thyroid test back from gp as I may need to treat this also.

Start cycle next month short protocol but I'm going to use steroids & clexane and put 2 back if were lucky to get that far - so really I am Throwing everything at it. I actually get myself confused all the new drugs etc but all worth it if it works.

To be honest I never thought I would do another cycle as I found the heart ache of the failure too much but by researching and changing things I feel positive again and I've touched upon adoption if this fails but I need to give it my all (fingers crossed)

Serum have been amazing and I'm not surprised their success rates are so high I will def use them for my 3rd and final (but hopefully won't need to)

Oh I also had hysteroscopy and that was clear.

Hope this helps - pudding helped me loads looking at the things she changed and that fact it's worked has give me so much hope

X


----------



## Tiffanymi

Thanks Harper. Sounds like you have done many things and will hopefully land up in great news at the end!! Glad you feeling hopeful again. It's a tough road.


----------



## PBAL

Hello ladies

I hope I can join. I had an early miscarriage on my first de cycle and my frozen resulted in a bfn. I am now planned to have donor transfer again in late september.  It will be the same donor. My clinic in prague have refused to give me intralipids without testing. I am wondering if taking omega fish oils could reduce inflammation and nk cells. Also ladies I had my blood tests back and the results were:
prolactin- 228.14 uIU/ml
Freethyroxine- 12.49pmol/l
TSH- 0.315 mIU/ml. The range for tsh is 0.49-4.67. 

My clinic are fine with the results as even though my tsh is low my free thyroxine is fine. Does this seem right to you ladies? 

I have been reading this thread and you ladies are inspiring. 

Best of luck to you all

Pbal


----------



## Harper14

Welcome  pbal I'm sorry to hear of your mc but take the good that it worked for you.

I can't advise on the thyroid but it terms on nk cells and inflammation both resveratol and omega 3 fish oil help there are studies that the fish oil tablets can reduce nk cells significantly and they are not expensive or harmful - just make sure you get the ones with a high enough level of EPA & DHA 

X


----------



## PBAL

Thanks harper.  I know my clinic gemnet in prague are increasing my progesterone this time and also giving me dexamethasone 48hrs and 12 hrs before transfer. All to increase my receptivity to the embies. So fingers crossed it works this time. 

Harper do you know which brand of fish oil is good to use and the amount? I wouldnt know where to start as i have no idea on supplements  

Thanks

Pbal


----------



## Tiffanymi

Hi PBa. I am sorry about your loss.  It's hard!! I am unsure of the answer to your question but just wanted to welcome you.


----------



## Harper14

I went to holland and Barrett and bought omega 3 fish oil capsules (with increased EPA & DHA) they are in a red tub and cost about 15 for 30.

You have to make sure it's pure omega 3 fish oil capsules and not cod liver oil etc as they have mercury


----------



## Teeinparis

I have ordered the Zita west ones.  I tried before but the company was pants so just reordered from her website


----------



## PBAL

Thanks ladies. Im going to get some this weekend. I hope it helps and doesn't harm me in any way. 

Lets hope this is our time

Pbal


----------



## ayah

Pbal so sorry it not worked this time.  

Has anyone got the contact details for the greek clinic that Penny is consultant. A girl at works daughter had second bfn tuesday after second ivf. Started to bleed though otd was saturday.  

Take care all

Ayah xxx


----------



## Pudding34

*Ayah* the Greek clinic is called Serum http://www.serum-ivf.com

Early bleeding can be a sign of lack of progesterone, I had this only first cycle and my private consultant put me on gestone this time round, it's not heap and it's not nice but if it works it's worth it!

*PBAL* welcome to the thread I am so sorry that your cycle didn't work, I hope this thread can help youth identify a way to improve on your next one!

*Tiff * hope you are doing okay babes I'm thinking of you!

*Tee and Harper* hello ladies hope you are both doing well!

Pudding
X


----------



## Harper14

Pudding quick question what day did you start predinisolone & clexane and shay dose? And when did you start baby asprin?

Sorry for all the questions

Clinic have also mentioned Celebrex but I'm not sure what this is? Any ideas
X


----------



## Pudding34

I started the prednisalone when I started Stimms a low dose which I built up to a higher one at the time of transfer.

I started the aspirin and claxane at EC.

I haven't heard of Celebrex.

Pudding
X


----------



## Teeinparis

Celebrex is an anti inflammatory I thought that was taken off the market years ago.  Look at pub meds.  It is what the doctors use.


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## Tiffanymi

Hope you all doing well today. First bleed after BFN and in PAIN. Also been a hard day. Hopefully I will be able to see the light again ;(


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## PBAL

Tiffanymi - Thinking of you today. Remember to treat yourself to nice food and lots of alcohol and of course s fab movie.  

Pbal


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## Tiffanymi

Thanks pbal. Wine was definitely the first thing I had after BFN as well as very unhealthy food!! Makes just that second feel a little better. Thanks.


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## Tiggyxx

Hi ladies,

I just wondered if you'd mind me joining please  sadly we just had a BFN on our first ivf cycle, and have one frostie. I've been thinking about immune testing as I've had a miscarriage at 13 weeks (2 years ago today  ) and several chemical pregnancies since, and a friend mentioned that I should perhaps ask my clinic for a test for thromophilia. I've got mild endometreosis too, and have heard that this can be associated with high NK cells and thyroid issues.

I'd love to join your group if you wouldn't mind, to support each other through this difficult time xx


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## Teeinparis

Of course,  Sorry to have you but happy to have you to.

pudding is the best with immunes and after this all just got her bfp and is awaiting her first scan.  

Essentially ask your GP for the thrombophilia panels (there are a lot plus a mthfr).  You also need a full thyroid panel with free t3 and t4 - plus tpo and another one.  We did our NK cells at the Lister but various centres do them.  

Tee


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## Pudding34

Tiggy

I'm so sorry to hear of your BFN but welcome you to the group!

As Tee said I just recently got my first real BFP after two chemical pregnancies, after the last one I decided to pursue immunes tests at the Lister in London and if this is a convenient location for you I highly recommend them.

We had the following tests done:-

Thyroid function
Thrombophillia 
NK Cell
Karotyping (for DH)

You can get the thyroid and thrombophillia tests done with your GP if you have a helpful one!

Have you considered hidden infection testing, Serum in Greece do this via post, you send off a sample of your AF blood and if you need a consultation it can be done over the phone and email.

I made other changes to my drug regime on my recent cycle including Claxane, aspirin and prednisalone even though my thyroid and NK Cell testing came back okay, as a belt and braces approach, I also added more progesterone support in the form of Gestone injections as early bleeding on my first cycle suggested I wasn't metabolising the crinone pessaries properly.

Fingers crossed all of the above have made the difference, I'm still constantly paranoid due to my previous chemicals which literally broke my heart.

I hope some of the above helps!

Pudding
X


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## Tiggyxx

Hi Teeinparis and Pudding  thank you so much for the lovely welcome!

Thank you Teeinparis, that's so helpful to me, I've made a note of all your advice and I'm so grateful  x

Ah Pudding huge congratulations  thats such wonderful news, I'm so happy to hear your amazing success story! It's so kind of you to help me, it all makes so much more sense to me now after reading your explanation! I'll definitely look into all of those tests. We've got our follow up appointment next Tuesday and I think our clinic offers the thromophilia and thyroid tests so I'll be sure to ask about those and if not I'll definitely pop to my GP  we live in Essex so Lister is lovely and close for us, thank you so much for your recommendation! May I ask whether they're happy to do the tests for you even if you aren't having your ivf there hun? Thank you so much. I'm so interested in what you mentioned about the gestone injections too as I've always had a short luteal phase and since my miscarriage I've started spotting and bleeding even earlier. I didn't get to test date on crinone this time and spotted from 9dp3dt and bled from 11dp3dt, even on crinone twice a day! I think I'll definitely mention that to my clinic too xx I really am so grateful for all your help and wish you the happiest healthiest pregnancy, how many weeks are you now lovely? Thanks so much again, big hugs x


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## Teeinparis

Hi.  

The Lister is very helpful.  I have been doing my tests in Paris and they are good with that.  I am possibly going to do my next cycle with them though due to their success rates.  Expensive but the emotional cost of ivf is crazy.  

I saw dr Thum who I highly recommend.  

He however told me the serum tests were a waste of time and if he saw value he would do them himself.  He was happy to do the antibiotics for me but said he would be humouring me .  He said he would risk the thrush which I have now anyways.  

But serum gets great results and I am glad I 'wasted they money' - my doc here checked for the bacteria it came up with with both of us and it is neg so he thinks it is fine - so two docs have given us peace of mind about it.  

Tee


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## Sunny12

*Tiggy* - Welcome!! So sorry for your BFN, so so hard. I would def say tell your clinic everything about spotting and progesterone support. Hopefully you have a great Dr who takes all the additional information on board.

I am at the Lister and they have been brilliant. My last (and my first ever BFP) cycle they literally taylor made it for me could not have had a better service

xxxxx


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## Pudding34

Tiggy

I'm having my treatment at a different clinic and the Lister were more than happy to do the tests separately.

I saw Mr Niccopoulos and he was really great. If you see him speak to him about the early bleeding as when I told him about mine his immediate reaction was to suggest gestone injections. 

Lots of people poo poo gestone and say that the pessaries are just as good but I have had two cycles now on pessaries and this is the farthest I have got. There is a lot out there about how hard they are to do and how painful but really they are not that bad, little bits of advice I was given that work are to warm the vials of gestone up in your bra for about an hour or so beforehand,it brings the liquid to the same temperature as your body so it goes in easier, also icing your bum with an ice pack to numb it up really helps too!

I'm 6weeks tomorrow and after posting to you earlier I had some reddy/browny discharge which has freaked me out, I had some in the two week wait as well but it was dark brown so Im stressing a bit now! 

I called my clinic but they just said that there is nothing to be done and we have to "keep our fingers crossed" not what I wanted to hear but I will just have to hope that it's just another  isolated bit of bleeding so my feet are up and I'm chilling today!

It's great that you are being proactive Hun and it really hope that the tests and this thread can help you to be successful in a future cycle!

Pudding
X


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## Sunny12

Pudding - I hope it is nothing and just some more lining that is not needed coming away.  I am still petrified every time I go to the loo.  Hopefully just a bit of rest and there will not be any more xxxxxxxx


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## Teeinparis

Sunny - would you suggest the Lister then?  I am deciding now whether to spend the money


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## Sunny12

TeeninParis - I would yes, I have Dr Alison Tayor and I really feel looked after.  Especially this last cycle she really went the extra mile.  I have my scans and bloods at the satellite clinic in Old Broad Street (v close to my work) where Dr Taylor and Liv (nurse) make a formidable team!  I think if everything is done at the Lister itself it is a little less personal from what others have said on the thread xxx


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## Pudding34

Oh god ladies I think my dream is over once again.

About half an hour ago I went to the loo and I had bright red blood in my underwear more in the toilet and when I wiped.

I have called my NHS clinic and they have said just carry on with drugs and hope for the best, they have, after a lot of begging, agreed to do an early scan on Friday but that seems like a million years away right now.

I also called my private consultants secretary who spoke to my consultant she said that I should stop the aspirin and claxane as they are thinning my blood and this could be why I am bleeding so bright red.

I have heard of people that bleed and it's all okay but on top of the cramps and my general feeling of doom and gloom over the weekend Im really not holding out much hope right now.

Pudding
X


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## Teeinparis

Pud - call the Lister and see what they say.  Or is that your private consultant?  

Also - is there anywhere you can go and get bloods done?  Here I can pay 20 euros foes my hcg count.  

All else fails - go to emerge and say you think you are have an periodic pregnancy then they would have to scan you.


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## Harper14

Pudding firstly try not to worry with our BC i was bleeding right up to 8 weeks but i know how scary it is, I went to Early pregnancy unit and was so upset that they done my bloods and a scan (i had to wait hours but i was prepared to wait)

I would def recommend you go – if you exaggerate your pain/cramps they will def scan you for fear of ectopic – don’t sit at home and beat yourself up

I am sure everything will be ok I have my fingers crossed

X


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## Pudding34

*Tee*my private consultant is a different one and I haven't really had any contact with the lister in respect of this cycle so I would only be asking them to comment on an unknown,I may email,y consultant at the Lister this afternoon if I get conflicting ideas on the claxane and aspirin from my NHS consultant!

Private consultants secretary said bloods wouldn't give us an answer as my hormone levels would be high even if it was all over.

Both clinics said that a scan at this stage won't tell them anything and an internal at this take which it would have to be may prompt more bleeding!

*Harper * I hope you don't mind me asking but what kind of bleeding was it! Was it bright red?

Pudding
X


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## Harper14

yes it was bright red it started with spotting and then got heavier like AF and then back to spotting 

I was so worried, I do think you should go to EPU they can at least offer some form of reassurance or do an internal scan

but everything was ok with me and it just stopped one day 

x


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## Teeinparis

Call the lister and ask about the drugs.  Really they will be the gold star standard in regards to nhs.  So that way you can make sure the nhs isn't just trying to save money.  

I have never been pregnant but know bleeding can be normal and with the blood thinners the blood will be lighter.


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## Sunny12

Pudding - hopefully it is just a small bleed made worse cos of thinners.        for you pudding xxxxx


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## Pudding34

I decided to all my local EPAU and am going to see them tomorrow morning, they said they won't necessarily scan me will just have to wait and see.

Im clinging on to the little bit of hope I have now that it's just a bled and it's going to be okay, Im petrified and feeling very sad and scared.

Pudding
X


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## Sunny12

Pudding - we will all be there with you tomorrow silently supporting you xxxxxx     That it is just random pregnancy bleed xxxxxx


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## ayah

Oh Pudding my sweet, I so hope this is just a "normal"bleed.  Quite a few ladies on my pregnacey thread have had bleeding on and off for first few weeks even beyond the first trimester.  They are now in final few weeks.  So scary but could really be ok.  I will be praying for you tonight and tomorrow.  

Rest up.  Will be thinkibg if you.

Thank you for the Serum link

Ayah xxx


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## Pudding34

Thank you Ayah!

It has slowed right down now and I haven't had any bright red blood for quite a few hours, getting brown crinone discharge now.

Pudding
X


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## PBAL

Pudding - fingers crossed that all is well tomorrow.  I will be thinking of you. 

Pbal


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## Harper14

pudding thinking of you - stay positive and try and get some sleep to tonight x


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## Pudding34

Thank you PBAL and Harper.

Pudding
X


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## Tiggyxx

Oh Pudding I'm thinking of you so much, I'm so sure it will all be ok hun  my sister in law had bright red bleeding at around 6 weeks too and she was terrified but they think it was the crinone which caused a big irritation and caused her cervix to open a tiny bit and after a day or so of resting it was gone and she's due her baby now! I'm praying its the same for you my lovely xx I'm so glad the EPU have agreed to see you tomorrow, so hope they will do a scan for you to put your mind at rest, I'm so sorry you're going through this worry  we are all right here for you cheering you on every step of the way! Your little bean is a fighter I can tell and I'm so sure he or she is nestled in tight and it's just a little irritation or normal slight bleed xx I can't thank you enough for all your help and advice, me and my hubby just read through everything and it's helped us so much  he asked me to send you a big thank you too! xx praying that you get a good nights sleep and the bleeding has completely stopped by the morning, sending massive hugs x

Thank you so much Teeinparis  I'm so grateful for your advice! The Lister sound so helpful, I'll definitely be sure to get in touch with them as soon as we've had our follow up meeting at the clinic next Tuesday! How are you feeling hun? When is your next treatment planned for? xx

Hope everyone else is well, big hugs all round x


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## Tiffanymi

Twiggy welcome to the group. Sorry you are here under these circumstances. 

Pudding - I am thinking if you and can just imagine the worry you are going through, even though some of the ladies here have reassuring words about the bleeding. I am hoping for the best for you. Let us know how tomorrow goes xxx


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## Sunny12

Pudding - good luck today, I saw my friend who has a two year old from ivf  she bled red blood (and clots) heavily from 6-10 weeks and all was fine. Hoping with all
My heart everything is ok xxxc


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## Pudding34

Hi Ladies!

So we spent all morning at the EPAU.

The ruled out an ectopic which i was getting really worried about as i had that pain on my left side and they couldnt tell me what it was however since i had the internal scan it seems to have eased off, very weird!

The did a scan and saw a gestational sac and a yolk in the uterine cavity but couldnt see the embryo. 

They said that this wasnt unusual as it is still early and also the gestational sac was measuring at 5 and a half weeks instead of 6 weeks they said that this is also not unusual and doesnt necessarily mean that the embryo stopped growing at 5 and a half weeks it could just be a slow developer.

They also saw a bleed next to the gestational sac which the sonographer referred to as an implantation bleed, she said that this was most likely the cause of the bleed but as with everything else they said they cant be sure!

I have the scan on friday at my clinic so we will hopefully know more then.

Ive not had anymore bleeding only more brown crinone discharge which is just old blood if it is brown right?

I got a lecture from the doc about "putting myself first" and "not concentrating on the pregnancy" oh okay then ill just do that shall I!

How can anybody expect us after all we go through to just forget about what is going on! 

Gonna take it easy this week and im tucked up on the sofa with my pups right now!

Thanks for being so supportive all of you I really appreciate it! 

Pudding
x


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## Sunny12

*Pudding* - I am relieved to see your post, they saw everything they could now and even the source of the bleeding that that is good. Enjoy your rest with your pups and hopefully hb on Friday xxxxxxxxx


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## Harper14

yay pudding thats good hopefully puts your mind at ease.

try taking it easy and I'm sure everything will be fine on friday - out of interest have they told you to stop clean or aspirin?
x


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## Tiffanymi

Pudding, relieved at the outcome today. Rest up as much as you can. Good luck again for Friday. This journey is hard from beginning until the very end!!


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## ayah

Pudding so glad it all looks ok for this stage.  Im not convinced these measurements are completly accurate so early on and it is only a matter of 3 days difference.  Hope Friday arrives soon for you and you can get more reassurance.  

Weird thing for Dr to say regarding putting self first.  Yes you do need to for you AND baby.  Some nice relaxing treats will be great for you both, but how are you ment to relax when you worried about baby?!

Yes brown blood is old blood.

Take care 

Ayah xxx


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## Tiffanymi

Hi guys

Just a quick question. 

If I have got a chemical pregnancy before. Long ago on my 2 nd cycle, does this mean I can implant? Or really doesn't mean anything as it was chemical? Does anyone know...


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## Pudding34

Thanks again for all your support Ladies, I don't know what I would do without you all!

I've read that measurements can be out by up to 5 days either way at this stage so hoping that is the case!

Tiff, on my first chemical my consultant said it was a good sign that I had implantation and this time around we created better grade embryos than the first time! I don't know if that helps, I hope it does!

Pudding
X


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## ayah

Tiff, sorry I dont know.  When i had chemical I asummed it was because the embryo was not viable, but turned out meds were making my lining too thin.  

Guess it could be either?

Pudding both DS and this one measured ahead, but think it very hard to get accurate measurements for something so small.  My due dates both earlier then they should be which impossible when you know when you conseved.  Ive known many like you too measure behind but alls been well.

Ayah xxx


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## Tiggyxx

Ah Pudding I'm so so relieved to see you post xx I'm thinking of you so much and sending huge hugs xx I too have heard that its fine to be measuring between 5 days behind or ahead so truly think it all sounds fine, I'm so sure your little embie is growing away happily and so glad they could see the source of the bleed and hope it goes away completely xx sending you the biggest hugs in the world  xx

Tiff, I was told that its a great sign to have been able to have implanted too as it shows your body is capable of all the complicated processes involved in implantation, so I'd definitely be super hopeful for the future hun xx

Big hugs to all x


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## *laura*

Hi ladies can I please join you, I have just had my second chemical pregnancy.  On both cycles I started spotting 7dp5dt, I then bleed lightly for days still testing positive until I start to bleed heavily around day 13/14 and then its BFN.  I haven't called the clinic yet I break down in tears when I pick up the phone.

I will find this thread very useful to arm myself with some questions at our review.  I keep reading about low progesterone and will definitely be asking about that.  I stop using cyclogest pessaries after 15 days post EC as this is our clinic's policy but lots of people seem to think that is too early to stop.  Following our last chem pg our consultant told us it was likely because the embryo was not viable and it would never have survived, but it happened again, am I just unlucky or could there be a reason?


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## Harper14

Hi Laura - welcome

Sorry to hear of your recent failed cycle I can't help with the chemical part but I know some ladies on here have experienced that and made changes to help - progesterone being one of then.

It's such a hard journey especially when there are sometimes no answers take your time and when your ready speak toyoir clinic for a follow up- it took me 5 months to feel ready but I felt better when I had spoke to them & wish I had done it sooner

Hope you get some answes 
X


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## RSL

Hi
Am struggling right now...Moved to DE after ttc 7yrs...Feel so tired & drained by it all as I go yet again for another HIV etc test....

Why is this all so painful? Am exhausted, but don't want to stop cos then it's worse...ahhhh

RSL


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## Tiffanymi

Twiggy, pud, ayah thanks for response on the implant question. 

Laura welcome to this thread. Sorry you are struggling with such a hard journey. 

Rsl I also moved to de after such a hard journey. And then after coming to mental terms with it, got a bfn on first DE which knocked me as you think it will work. I feel the same as you. Hopefully our turn can be somewhere soon!!

AFM, Doing a FET de cycle now with this bleed. In next 12 days should transfer. I just can't wait. I know I'm nuts but I just need to try.....sick of counting the months!! And sick of being depressed. Putting my guard down that the doctor says it's just a numbers thing now and trusting him as I am too emotionally exhausted to do anything else.


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## *laura*

Thank you harper, rsl and tiffany   I was fortunate to have two frosties from this cycle although I don't hold much hope for a fet, after our first cycle I had 5 frosties of which only 2 survived the thaw and I had bfn. I called the clinic this afternoon and requested a follow up appointment. I know that I am very lucky to have our dd I just wish I could give her a sibling 

RSL it is exhausting I can't begin to imagine how much you have been through in 7 years!  

Tiffany good luck with your FET


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## Tiffanymi

Thanks for the wishes Laura. Don't give up on your frosties, they could be the ones and surprise you!!


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## *laura*

Thank you Tiffany I really do hope so


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## Tiggyxx

Aw Laura I'm so sorry  that must be so heartbreaking, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I would definitely try to explore the progesterone issue, I've had chemical pregnancies before and I bled early on this ivf cycle (although tested negative so not a chemical this time) and I strongly believe that my progesterone is too low. We'll find the answers together my lovely, big hugs x

RSL, I'm so sorry you're going through so much, really thinking of you and always here if you need a chat x

Tiff, you're so welcome  I'm so sorry this journey has been so hard and I pray your FET cycle is the one to make your dream come true! You really deserve this x

Pudding, how are you hun? Thinking of you loads x


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## Pudding34

Hi *Tiggy* I'm doing okay, no more bleeding but can't shake the feeling that the small measurements at the scan on Tuesday was bad news!

I guess I won't know till I go to the next scan on Friday.

Trying desperately not to over analyse but it's impossible.

*Laura and RSL* I hate to welcome new members to this thread because it means that another cycle hasn't worked but I'm glad you have found your way here, all of our fellow negative cyclers are just amazing and they have done so much for me in the last six months I hope they can offer you some help/comfort!

*Laura* def ask about the early bleeding and the progesterone there is an injection you can take called gestone, it's not nice but not as bad as some people make it out to be as long as you prepare for it!

*Tiff* it's great that you can try again so soon, is it a natural FET or medicated? I've been thinking of you a lot sweetie!

Big hugs to you all, you are all so brave and so strong and I'm so proud of you all!

Pudding
X


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## Teeinparis

Pud - did you start the new long term thread?


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## Pudding34

Tee we didn't really have a general consensus on what to allot and I've been a bit sidetracked!

But I will just ask them to call it *The IF at first you don't succeeders* and get up set up!

Pudding
X


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## Tiggyxx

Aw I'm thinking of you so much Pudding  I completely understand your over-analysing feelings, I think I'd definitely be the same, but that's fantastic that you've had no more bleeding and I'm so sure everything is going to be absolutely perfect on your scan on Friday! I hope your little one will have grown perfectly xx I wonder sometimes whether the date of implantation might affect the size rather than the date of conception, just because that's the date they begin properly growing if you know what I mean, and that can vary between 6-10 days past ovulation I've heard xx Praying for a wonderful positive scan on Friday for you hun  you absolutely deserve this, big hugs xx


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## ayah

Just quick hello,

Tiff all best with this fet.

Pudding praying all is well on scan tomorrow.  The worry never ends!

Tee how are you.

   to the new comers.  I hope that you can find some answers here as well as support.

   to everyone one else.  Praying for you all that you get for LO so soon.

Be kind to yourselves.

Ayah xxx


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## Tiffanymi

^thanks for the wishes everyone. 

Pudding, thinking of you tomorrow and preying everything is ok and your worry over. Xx


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## Pudding34

Ayah, Tiff and Tiggy thanks for the well wishes for tomorrow I am really worried about it and trying to keep my mind off it which is working about as well as a wet paper bag!

Anyway changing the subject a little bit we now have a new home on the long term chat thread and this is the link to it!

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=323969.new#new

Hope to see you all there!

Pudding
X


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## Tiffanymi

Ok I joined the new thread. Does this mean we no longer write here and close our con ions here?


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## Pudding34

I think we should just start chatting on the other thread, this one will still exist if people want to oust on it but eventually it should fade away I think!

Pudding
X


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