# Newbie Poor responder



## Audrina (May 3, 2010)

Hi, I have never spent much time on discussion forums before so am new to this. I have just been stopped on my 2nd IVF cycle and really don't know what to do. I am 37,and been trying for 4 years. First IVF was in Oct 09 and I had one ET on Puregon 150, then last week I was stopped due to lack of response to meds. ( I was on Menpur 600). I am baffled  that I  could respond to such a low dose 6 months ago and then this time round minimal response. Can my body really change so fast?  The doc mentioned DE and I will definately consider that seriously but I really feel that there is a baby in me, I just know there is. Now my dilemma is, do I go straight to DE and then try for my own after or do I keep slogging away at my own eggs and risk never having a baby.   I need inspiration. I can't stop crying and just feel so sad all of the time.


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## Momito (Nov 16, 2009)

Dear Audrina

I understand exactly how you feel   ...our journeys are similar.  A year ago I was told DE was really my only option, and my DH and I started a journey of clinic hopping trying to find the right one for us.  We simply couldn't accept what we were being told.  Our 5th clinic, The New Hope Fertility Center in New York, was definitly the one for us, despite the distance and inconvenience.  I am a firm believer that if you still ovulate you still have a chance to have your own baby.  The New Hope believes this too and is expert in dealing with those of us with low ovarian reserve (low amh and also high fsh).  They use a method called mini-IVF, basically a low stimulation approach either using clomid or femara.  The aim is not to make you produce a zillion eggs in a cycle, they don't want to force your body to produce what is in essence not there, they are looking for quality over quantity.  They helped us to believe in our chances again.  Despite a BFN on our first transfer (not helped by a really bad journey home)...1 month later...and I am pregnant via the natural route and having just turned 40 feel totally over the moon!  Having spoken to the clinic yesterday, they told me that the body can be kick strated by the treatment and then it basically wants to get pregnant...so far so good...very early days...but I would like to give you hope that there are forward thinking clinics out there that will certainly look at your case and try to help you.  The oldest mum in the world at 49 has just given birth to a healthy baby with her own eggs and she was a patient at the New Hope.  

Don't stop believing...just find the right clinic for you.

There are lots of other poor responders on this site...there are a bunch of us on "anyone out there gone ahead on such low amh" by Danielscroft...you are very welcome to come and join us.  We are a very supportive and chatty lot.

Take care
Momito
xxxxxxx


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## Audrina (May 3, 2010)

Hi Momito, Firstly congratulations to you, must be amazing. Thanks so much for your response its good to know that I am not crazy in thinking that I really can make this work.  I have looked at their website and I do like the sound of what they do. Its so hard to know isn't it. 
I will have a look for the thread you suggested. Thanks again and best of luck with your pregnancy, you have put a smile on my face.


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## Guest (May 5, 2010)

Hi Audrina and Momito


I think I'm classed as a poor responder/slow grower too!!!  This is my first cycle and only 2 follies! I feel a freak compared to everyone else with their 10-15!!  Anyway, I'm thinking positive and it only takes 1!! 


Momito - I think I may come join ur thread too - i'm currently also posting on poor responders thread. but my AMH is 0.3 so will take a sneak peak at your little gang if that's ok!!


Audrina - if you believe in something enough then surely it will come true - whichever route you take!!  Momito is a definate success story so take hope from that!!!


  to you both!!


Sonia


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## steffydill (May 5, 2010)

Hi,

I am too what they class as a "poor responder", yet another title that I have gained since my fertility journey began!!! I was due for EC on 28th April and ET (ICSI IVF) on 30th but on the Monday the scan showed that my little follies had still not grown since the week before despite upping my drugs, they then informed me that there was no point doing the EC or the ivf icsi but as I had one fairly decent sized follicle they would convert to IUI, oh brilliant ,NOT!!
I dont hold much hope of that having worked but go for a blood test on the 14th May to see if by any miracle the IUI worked (my DH has very poor sperm, morphology and motility so very unlikely these swimmers did their job) but you never know.

Anyway my consultant thinks I may just be runnig out of eggs and has said that next time it will probably happen the same way (so why bother I thought but not aloud!) and we would have to think about DE, my hubby will not even discuss that so unless its my egg and his sperm cant see him changing his mind,

Never mind, there are thousands of women on here who have been through much worse and still remain optimistic and have some great miracle stories so hang in there and dont lose hope (I will take my own advice tonight at least anyway lol)

Stef xxxx


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## Guest (May 6, 2010)

Hi Steffy,


You poor thing!!   such a roller coaster ride and all we do is    for a miracle!!!  What size did they grow too?  Did you start on the maximum dose?


My DH has the same view on DE, he won't even discuss it to hear my opinion and gets really stroppy (which is so out of character for him!!!)  Yesterday he reduced me to tears by saying that he wanted to be a mummy whatever it takes and all I thought was...no you don't coz you won't consider DE!!    However, at the hospital he said that if this cycle doesn't work he's beginning to open his mind to considering other options.  I'm not saying anything coz i don't want to build up my hopes.  I'll worry about our other options if i get the bfn.


 for your blood test.  Miracles DO happen.  And if not then perhaps the hospital will consider starting you on max drugs at the beginning!!


Take care


Sonia
xx


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## fairywings (Feb 19, 2009)

and welcome to Fertility Friends Audrina 

Firstly, I am so sorry that your cycle was abandoned  . As has already been mentioned there are others in the same situation hun. I will leave you some links below. Please have a good look around the boards, feel free to post in any area, and make yourself at home. Fertility Friends is such a huge support. There are many who are on their TTC journey, and others who have been fortunate to have little ones with assistance. You will soon discover that our members are very encouraging of one another and offering advice or just simple hugs. There's a vast amount of information here for everyone, so start reading, posting and getting to know others. You will make some great friends too (add them to your buddy list in your profile!), lots of members often have meet ups locally too, for chats, coffee, shopping or even nights out! You can share conversations with one another freely, simply because we all understand each other. It's hard when family and friends don't fully comprehend what this journey entails and the emotions that go with it. That's where we come in!

Here are some links which you should find really useful at the moment&#8230;&#8230;

*What Every New Member Needs To Know (includes a list of common abbreviations) ~ *   CLICK HERE

*Poor Responders ~* CLICK HERE

You mentioned this may be an option for you.....
*Donor sperm/eggs ~ *CLICK HERE

*IVF General ~ *CLICK HERE

*Complimentary, Holistic and Spiritual Approaches ~ *CLICK HERE 

*What can improve egg quality and quantity ~ * CLICK HERE

You can also chat live in our excellent chat room. We have a newbie day in the chat room every Wednesday where you can meet one of our mods for support, meet other new members and get technical support with navigating the site and using all the functions available here.  CLICK HERE FOR INFO ON NEWBIE CHAT 

You can also "meet" and chat with people in your local area through the *Location boards*. This is especially useful to find people who may be using the same clinic and or in the same PCT area. It's a small world!

Wishing you lots of luck    and 

Keep in touch

Fairywings xx


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## Momito (Nov 16, 2009)

Hello girls

Can't be long as have to dash off to work...bad timing on my part!!!

Please do come and join us on the other thread...you are all very welcome.

I totally understand the spot you are on in this journey...when I was first told of DE I had never even heard of it before...had no clue it even existed!  It is a lot to take in for both you and your DHs...a strange concept at first and lots of questions that arise in terms of what to tell people, what to tell your child, will you really feel like the mother etc.  And believe me, whatever people told me, I cried a river.  It is a form of very deep grief at the thought that you will never know your own child.  At least I think that was what it was for me.

But if you are still ovulating you most certainly are in with a chance to have babies with your own OE.  It really is just a matter of finding the right clinic.  Too many doctors say no to everything but they are reading from a book that is already out of date.

Speak to you soon and don't give up...sorry to have to dash off...
 
Momito
xxxxxx


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## Audrina (May 3, 2010)

Hi everyone & thanks, 

Found out today that I have had my review meeting moved from 3rd June to next week so I am delighted about that, yet at the same time afraid that they will tell me that there is nothing I can do. Unlike some of you my DH wants to go straight to DE but I am reluctant to do that until I have totally exhausted all other options - if there are any and I am afraid that my clinic will just give a standard 'move on' response which my DH will be inclined to believe methinks. 

I agree with you Sonia and I won't give up hope, I am hoping that you will get a good result and you wont be faced with other options.  

Am so glad that I found this website. Wish I had found it last october..but I'm here now!


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## Guest (May 6, 2010)

Hi Audrina,


It's good you've got your meeting sooner rather than later so you can have closure on this sad time and start making plans for next time.  Think positive, nothing is unachievable!!!


                         


Big   


Sonia


PS keep me posted on your meeting!!!


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## wishy-washy (Oct 16, 2009)

Hi Audrina,

Please come and join us on the Poor responders thread. I was in the same situation as you back in December and the girls on that thread helped me pick myself up and believe in my own eggs. They know the best clinics for poor responders and have loads of fab tips on improving egg quality like taking DHEA etc.

poor responder thread is here: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=236020.new;topicseen#new

I was told in Dec when they cancelled my treatment before EC that my only option was DE and at my review appointment they told me that it was unlikely they would treat me with my own eggs, and I have a fertile age of early to mid forties. I was really lucky that the following month I found that I was pregnant naturally, 1st time in 4 yrs of trying, and two weeks ago found out its identical twins.

What protocol are you on? The long protocol can be bad for poor responders as once they turn our hormones off its hard to turn them back on. You may be better on a short protocol or antagonistic. The girls on the PR thread can tell you more.

Steffydill - I just wanted to say how sorry I am that your treatment was converted to IUI,   for your test on the 14th. We started out our journey with DH sperm being poor quality, poor morphology and motility but we turned it around. I posted here what we did, I hope that a few of these tips might help: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=211556.msg3348341#msg3348341

I really hope I can give you all hope, don't give up yet, do your research so you can make informed decisions. 

Good luck to all 

Wishy-washy


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## Guest (May 6, 2010)

wishy washy - my DH has a theory that a few other people agree with (Non IVF people) and now you are actually proof.  He thinks that the drugs we take in IVF can kick start the body so that even though lots of people fail on the first cycle the 2nd cycle could be more successful coz the body has practiced doing what it should do naturally and responds better.  In your case it did so well that you conceived naturally!!!


I just saw a post you made on the thread - keep positive about the twins!!  You've come this far and will have a gorgous family!!!   


Sonia
xxx


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## wishy-washy (Oct 16, 2009)

Thanks Sonia

I think the fact that I got pregnant on one of my IVF cycles helped my body to know what it should be doing, plus my DHs hard work at looking after his sperm, plus counselling and truly believing/having faith that I would be a mum one day all contributed.

I think the IVF drugs may still have been in my system when I conceived naturally so it may be true. 

WWx


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## Momito (Nov 16, 2009)

Hi girlies

My clinic told me that a natural pregnancy after tx can definitly be down to the "kick start"...as you say Wishy Washy the body believes it should be getting pregnant and so paves the way.  Has happened to you and now to me...so there must be something in the water as they say!

Don´t give up girls...just get informed!  It is your very best weapon!

Lots of Love
Momito
xxxxxx


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## Audrina (May 3, 2010)

Hi 
Wishy Washy, thanks I will get on to that thread.
Congratulations on your pregnancy, thats brilliant you must be so thrilled!  
First time round was on the long protocol but this last attempt was flare (short). Its just bizarre that things can change so quickly and I honestly think that getting away from the drugs and boosting myself with supplements etc will help. I am going to a hormone specialist in London in a couple of weeks and hopefully their tests will be able to tell me where my deficiencies are.
Just read your message again and your profile , such great news. 
There aren't enough hours in the day to do all the research I want to do, I would happily dedicate 24/7 but reckon my DH would baulk at having no one to play with !
Sonia, thanks for your wishes, I will report back after my review.


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## Momito (Nov 16, 2009)

Hi Audrina

Your body can also respond differently from month to month...last August I had a total "no show"...not one follicle appeared despite a high dosage of menopur.  At the time, one of the docs told me DE was probably my only option, again...then another doctor on another day said that he didn't believe that I never ovulated and that even a natural pregnancy was possible (from the same clinic).  Told me that quite a few women on the DE waiting list had got preggars naturally.  One made me feel the sky had fallen in, the other gave me hope.  I stuck to the 2nd way of thinking.  

Best of luck with your review...

Momito
xxxxxx


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## steffydill (May 5, 2010)

Thanks for the messages girls, they really do make me feel better 

Sonia - let me know if your hubby changes mind about DE, you may have to tell me what you said to him to change his mind!

I am thinking  thoughts for all of you, I so hope everyone gets the news they want.

xx


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## Momito (Nov 16, 2009)

Steffy...2ww is a hard place to be.  Best of luck...hope you get the result you so yearn for!      

   

Momito
xxxxxx


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## steffydill (May 5, 2010)

Hi Wishy Washy,

Thanks for the link its really helpful and my (poor) DH will now be force fed organic foods, nuts but I think he may draw the line at splashing cold water on his balls, lmao 
Just the thought of asking him is making me giggle, cant stop laughing you made my day!!!!

Never heard of parabens before but will look into it and do all the things you mention, all the healthy eating etc must help. I cut out alcohol completely and DH has really cut down but we could both do more I think,

Best luck to all you,

Stef xx


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## wishy-washy (Oct 16, 2009)

Steffydill         for your 2ww.

Hopefully the IUI will have worked and your DH won't have to splash his balls.


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## steffydill (May 5, 2010)

Thanks wishy washy, still lmao as I type this.

Just wanted to say congrats on BFP - identical twins you must be over the moon!!! Big mwah!

xx


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## Jessn (Apr 6, 2010)

Hello Audrina, I'm new to these forums as well and am also a poor responder.  3 tries and each result got worse.  Have had mixed recommendations from clinics which makes it difficult to make a decision. I am leaning towards DE but it is so hard to decide. I wish you well!  J


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## Momito (Nov 16, 2009)

Hello Jessn

If you are finding it hard to make a decision...it is because it is a blinkin´mind field out there!

Here are some clinics that have helped poor responders with their own eggs in the past:

The Lister, London
The Jimened, Istanbul 
The New Hope Fertility Center, New York.

Have a look at their websites, even if you decide to opt for none of them, they will give you an idea of what to look for.  I went to the New Hope and highly recommend them.  Totally different approach, open, fresh, medically competement and they actually care.  Despite my tx failing  (chemical pregnancy), one month on and I am pregnant.  Somehow I think the protocol woke me up!

Wishy Washy...not just twins...but identical twins!  Wow!  Not just a miracle, but an amazing double miracle! Congratulations!   

Lots of love to you all

Momito
xxxxx


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## Audrina (May 3, 2010)

Hi Jessn, 
I feel the same as you, it is a total minefield as Momito said, impossible to know where to turn. 
I have a review meeting tomorrow and am trying to compile a list of questions, fiinding it hard to know what to ask as I think they will just keep giving me the same response and tell me to go for DE, its so hard to know isn't it. The clinic I used in Dublin doesn't offer DE. I am thinking of making an appt with the New Hope centre in New York and giving my own eggs another chance...but then I wonder should I just stop messing about and go straight to DE !
Wouldn't it be great to just be told the 100% right thing to do ?? Best wishes to you.


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## Momito (Nov 16, 2009)

Hi Audrina

I feel for you and Jessn...I was in very much the same place as you both in December, feeling really confused and down and just not knowing what to do.

If you do want to contact the New Hope, contact [email protected] to give her an initial idea of your background so that she could give you an idea as to what the New Hope could do for you. She is not a doctor or a nurse but she does understand the protocols and has a good idea as to whether the clinic can help you. If you feel that this is something that you'd like to pursue, then just get your history to date over to the clinic and have a telephone consultation with Dr Zhang...it costs 65 us dollars...so between the admin costs of getting your history from previous clinics and the consulation, you won't have spent a fortune to hear what he has to say. You can make a decision after that. Jessica will also give you the lowdown on the costs involved.

If you would like any info from me...feel free to ask!

Don't despair girls...there are people out there who can help you!    

LOL
Momito
xxxxxx


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## Audrina (May 3, 2010)

Hi Momito, thanks so much for your messages. I contacted New Hope after you first mentioned them and they are charging $150 for telephone consultation now, either way its worth a shot. I have been looking at natural or mild IVF in Oxford & West Wimbledon. Gawd the worst thing is not knowing what to do, its a killer as just when I think you know what to do doubt finds its weary way back in.Grrr   

My DH is going to NYC for business in June and I was considering tagging along and going to see them..consultation in the office is $350. Sounds like a tel con will give us enough information. DH is negative , doesn't think it will work wants to go to DE before anything else..thats really getting me down.  

How are you getting on? I feel so me, me , me all the time !


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## Momito (Nov 16, 2009)

Hi Audrina

I can totally understand your wanting to try with your OE first.  And whilst DE certainly gives the option of having a family for those who can't go ahead with their own eggs, it isn't a guarantee either...so your DH should be aware of this too.
Gosh...the New Hope's prices have gone up!  Yikes!

AFM...things not going too well...began bleeding on Tuesday pm and it just got steadily worse, went to the hospital yesterday and the beta hormone has gone right down, unusually low for week 5, but still showing pregnant...just.  Will go again on Monday but to be honest we don't hold out much hope...we believe that we have lost this one.  That's 2 in 2 months, first the chemical pregnancy from the 1st tx and now the natural one gone awry.  But we are holding up.  Sounds strange but we have never got as far as this...so still hold out hope that it can still happen for us.

I think that the telephone consulation is really just as good, so long as they have your history.  But having said that...I have never met Dr Zhang face to face!!!!

The Create protocol sounds similar...but they weren't that open with info and I also felt that it was more about being "natural" than low AMH, but that was just the impression I came away with.  I also thought that they were expensive, but then I guess for you there would be no travel and accommodation costs so it may balance out.

In the end you have to go with what feels best to you...I know it is hard to know that before you start...and I certainly made my fair share of mistakes along the way.  But a clinic that understands your problem and feels they can help you is a good start.  If they start on the DE options too soon....move on!!!  Unless of couse that is the route you decide to go on.

Momito
xxxxx


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## Audrina (May 3, 2010)

Momito I really hope that things go your way on this one, thats so difficult you must be rife with anxiety. Its still there so                        don't lose hope. Just keep forging ahead. I will say a little prayer that things improve for you.   
Makes sense to go with tel con really, think I will do that. 
Regarding what to do with eggs, I am hopeful that I will be struck by inspiration or natural pregnancy!   
Anyhoo heres hoping that whatever the universe has in store for us there are a couple of bambino's in the frame! 
Have a nice weekend.


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## Guest (May 14, 2010)

Audrina - keeping everything crossed for you!! Keep me posted on how you get on at NEw Hope.  I told DH about ur journey Momito and his answer is "I fancy a holiday in new york!!" ha! ha!!


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