# Just need to rant!



## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

Please just ignore me, I just need to rant and let off steam in a safe place!!!!

Remember my cousin X who is desparate for us to get over our pain of IF and start being involved with his little boys?

My mum let slip that 'X' has been moaning to my aunty about it all, and whats more my aunty told my mum she feels like she has 'lost' me because she can't ring me anymore because she can't talk to me about the boys.

I have got myself more and worked up about this!!!!!!!!!!

My new years resolution was to make a big effort to gradually introduce myself to being with X's boys, and overcome my phobia of the pain that I feel when i am with them, and now I feel whats the point when they just obviously have NO appreciateion whatsoever of the efforts I am making and the hurt that I have to overcome to do it. 

DH and my mum say its only because X really cares about me and wants me to be involved in his life, but I feel like it is always all about whats important to THEM, and it has suddenly dawned on me that it is never about any appreciation of how I am trying, and how it hurts, and how it takes time. Everytime I do try it is completely overlooked. i know my efforts seem small to them but it is completely mammoth efforts to me.

My aunty's comment has really upset me because it just demonstrates how she and X think that if they can't talk about the babies then they have nothing else worth saying. Why can't she ring me and ask about MY life? About my uni course? About christmas? 
Its just another example of what we all know, that people with babies have no other topic of conversation!!!

I am sorry for being uncharitable and bitter, but I am fed up of being the one that tries to see their point of view all the time, when they can't give a monkey's a*se about mine.

And why do they seem to think that they have 'lost' me forever....jut because I can't go around around and gaze adoringly at the boys now (and its less then a year since the last, final IVF) doesn't mean I am gone forever,......

I JUST NEED SOME F***ING TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was all set to make this big effort to overcome the pain and get to know their boys and now I just think 'why bother'. If this was a casual 'friend' I would give up on them, but I grew up close to my cousin and it would be a big deal to lose touch.

Stalemate.


There. Its all out.

Thanks for the safe space.


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## Maggie Mae (Mar 2, 2006)

You're right to feel p***ed off. Feel justified, and be angry. Solutions start with us being angry. People who don't have our experiences are utterly bewildered and overawed by the awfulness of it and try pretty much to pretend it can be glossed over. 

I hope you get an opportunity to make the points you need. A friend of mine says there is a season for everything - there will be for you too, in terms of being either understood, or at least left in peace.

And of course, we're all with you too. 100%.

Love, Leoarna x


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## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

Thank you Leoarna. 

I have calmed down a bit now, I guess ranting works!

Sorry if I am over-reacting, which I probably am! I feel a bit silly now for getting so worked up when there are worse things in life than misunderstandings with tactless people.

Its just that I thought I was doing quite well recently and starting to feel a bit stronger again, and things like this just hinder my progress. All I want is a bit of space and I will get there but everytime I am put under pressure I just pull away again. Its as frustrating for me as it is for them!

Thanks for your support when you have had such a horrible time recently.

Take care
xxx


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## NixNoo (Aug 19, 2005)

Ermey - ditto what Leoarna has said (very wise words).

I think people see us as 'getting on with it' and assume because we seem to be functioning normally on the outside that our feelings are all back to 'normal' or don't matter.  Sometimes you just want to scream at them and say THE HURT WILL NEVER GO OR GET BACK TO NORMAL.  Why won't anyone understand - because they haven't got the foggiest idea how we'd feel, only the people on sites like this will ever have the faintest idea of our feelings.

You rant away, get it all off your chest hun.

Nix
xxx


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## irisheyes (Feb 2, 2005)

Yes Ermey, i do understand you completely. Your aunt should be able to talk to you about other things other than her babies!!! And yes you are right -you are not lost forever. I only go now and visit my friends babies when they are around 1 year altho i keep in touch with texts and cards at christmas etc.I am only close to a few girls now because they understand that i can only visit when ready.

I think its probably harder with family and you all know girls that i am dreading my sister announcing she is pg because you really cant avoid family comlpetely whether we want to or not. I know i will feel exactly like you do Ermey when the time comes- my worst fear is that i will be "expected" to go and see the baby shortly after the birth with mum and other family members in tow. I have already decided tho that i am not going to do this. I will go with dh (or on my own if he doesnt want to-as i avoided a few christenings with him while doing tx and he had to go alone) and i dont care if my family agree!!! (PS REMIND ME I SAID THIS WHEN IT HAPPENS!!!). then there is the christening which will be worse as all family will be there watching me!!!


could you write your aunt a letter explaining that you really want to be involved but find it all too raw and painful still and that by not visiting you are not avoiding her but simply trying to protect yourself.I hate also the way people assume that because it is 1 year/2 years on that we are " over it" - it will never be over as it affects us thru  grandchildren as well as children. In their own happiness people dont realise this.

I hope you get it sorted out i really do.We all understand and are here any time to help xxxx


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## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

Oh thanks so much girls 

Nix - you are so right, I think this is my cousins biggest 'blind spot', that unless I'm sobbing and tearing my garments he thinks I am getting on with it and am ok! Or at least that I should be!

Irish - thanks hon, you too are so spot on. If they leave me too it I will go round as soon as I can....it might be in a month or it might be in a year but I will do it if they only respect and trust me enough.

I am seriously thinking of writing my aunty and my cousin a letter with a sheet of bullet points like the points you both made! I found this llink which I found very helpful and comforting to read

http://www.resolvemn.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=53&Itemid=2

I especially like this one:

•	"That I will be okay again, but I don't know when So when I seem okay, just accept that as a good thing for the moment, and don't press me, because I don't know how long the feeling okay again thing will last. "

And this one came from a different place:

"Reactions differ from person to person and from day to day. Understand that for some people there may be a need to isolate themselves occasionally. especially from events involving children. Please realize that when the infertile couple visits you, it may be a wrenching experience to watch you with your children. If they seem to find pleasure in contact with your children, then by all means offer it. Otherwise, do not ask them to hold or feed your baby. "

It makes me realize that I am not being unreasonable in not rushing round there and bouncing the baby on my knee!!!

Maybe just writing the thing will help me even if I never get around to sending it.

I also think Irish you are right about it being 'easier' when they are not quite so tiny, this is madde more complex by the fact that cousins baby was born only a few weeks after we were advised to give up tx. To me he is a profound reminder of the pain that we went through and the feeling of salt in the wound.

Thanks again girls you are so wonderful!

p.s - Irish sympathise about your sister...my sister is getting married in August and plans to TTC straight away...I am scared stiff! Also, I have 2 weddings in the same month where all the cousins I grew up with will be there with their children. Still thats another bridge to cross another time.


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Hi Ermey,

Aw hun, I just wanted to let you know I fully empathise as I have had the exact same thing said to me, although, for me, it was from my mother and it upset me (more for her than for me as I realised my IF was upsetting her aswell) but I do understand .....

When I refused to go to my Mums birthday tea because my brother and his wee one were going, and my Mum said, "Gillian, I'm not losing you to this ...", it kick started me into determination to force myself into seeing my brothers little one.  (which thankfully, for me,  paid off in the end as I'm sure I've told you not that long ago on another thread ...) However, I'm not for a minute suggesting that you shouldn't take your time over this.

I suppose your Auntie is just worrying that because the contact has been a bit less recently, that this might continue and she doesn't want to lose touch with you ....?  Maybe as you say, you could write to her and explain that you haven't "disappeared" but everyone is individual in dealing with this and everyone needs their own time to work out "how" to deal with it all.  Of course, you are right, she could call you to see if YOU are ok and ask about your life ....  Maybe you could diplomatically explain this in your card/letter too?

I think it's such a tragedy and so unfair that IF robs us not only of our own family, but can rob of us relationships with our extended families and friends...... but in my experience .... only if we let it.  It is soooo difficult trying to look after ourselves and please everyone else aswell, in fact, its bl**dy impossible.  Just stay strong and go with your gut instinct.

Just wanted to let you know I understand hun,

Take your time and do what feels right for YOU.
All my love
Gill xo


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## mao (Nov 30, 2006)

Ermey,
Haven't felt the need to post before - but I felt I had to reply to you.  My sister was so scared of telling me she was pregnant - I think people are so frightened of upsetting us that they tread on eggshells constantly.  We went through 2 neg ivfs while she was pregnant and just after my nephew was born so I know the emotions you are going through.  However sometimes we just have to put our own baggage on one side and take part in the normal things in life, which are going to include babies, children etc. It is hard but can other people put their life on hold just because we are going through this cr*p ?  Unless you go through it yourself noone really knows what it is like and to expect everyone to is a little harsh.  How about writing a letter to your cousin explaining exactly where you are at, it might be easier to put it on paper and I'm sure they would be more understanding.  

Good luck, you will be fine and its good to have a rant once in a while !!!

M.


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## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

Mao

Welcome, and thanks for your perspective on this  
I have to admit that part of me knows that the world doesn't stop spinning just because me and DH are going throuh IF. And thats good, because it means the sun still comes up and goes down, and the seasons come and go just the same....life goes on. Its just finding the courage to get back on the spinning globe when I'm only hanging on by my fingernails!
It is so true that I cannot expect them to know what it is like... and i don't expect them to...just to be patient is all.
Its not being able to be open with them and explain all this that makes it hard.

Gill - your constant encouragement that it CAN be done is invaluable to me,  you are one strong lady even tho I know you didn't feel it at the time.


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Ermey - I just wanted to acknowledge your message hon.
I will come back to this and write some more to you when I am not so tired and foggy brained!

Love,
Emcee xxx


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Dear Ermey
sorry that i am a bit late on replying to your post!! I think its good that you could on here and express how you feel with those that really understand..
For me you hit the nail on the head, when you said that its only been a year. A year to try and get your life to gether and of course its still such early days. I know your family care, and i know that the children are here to stay, however they are not suffering without your input at this moment. Its you that is in alot of pain and heartache at the moment. I know people do not totally understand and although we hope our family would come up trumps, they do not also have the answers we want..
I am sorry but i still  maintain that you have to do things in your own time. The more that you feel pressured, the more that this will get you into a state. You are not deliberately going out to hurt anyone, least of all your cousin, aunt and the boys...and this is what they need to understand..
I am sure your cousin does care, as your hubby and mum have already said, but you care also. I am sure you do not want things the way they are and would give your whole being into changing the whole situation. This is what they also need to take on board and i am sorry if it takes time, then they need to work with you also...its about giving both ways...
Could you maybe write things down and then think on it for a couple of days. Then perfect what you have to say and what you feel comfortable with...then maybe give your cousin a ring. And with this written down and infront of you, it will give you the confidence to express what you want to say...And most importantly they understand you are not out to hurt them, its just a situation that has been difficult. 
You will feel alittle more in control and when you take charge of that, then maybe you will start moving towards coping alittle bit better...
Remember this is not a personal thing directed at anyone, its a situation that you had no choice about..
Please do not be so hard on yourself..but remember also sometimes as much we love some people they may never understand. But if you take some control then you will beable to deal with things alittle better in the future..
sorry if i have banged on!!
Thinking of you..
love astridx
P.s also well done for getting this far, its a flipping hard road. You maybe need to sit back and give you and your hubby some credit, instead of worrying about everyone else. You also have an inner strength that you haven't also given yourself credit for..


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Ermey hon

I couldn't have worded my answer any better than Astrids - it is not as if you ever had any choices in the fertility department here - all of your choices have been taken away from you, which means that you are left with the aftermath, and that will never go away - we all know it is something that stays with you for the rest of your life. As Astrid has so beautifully put it: *Remember this is not a personal thing directed at anyone, its a situation that you had no choice about..
*

I can understand the points already raised about not letting IF rob you of everything - but its so bloody hard when others are able to have their families and carry on 'business as usual' when I say this I mean those who have never encountered IF problems. It is also only weeks after the most family orientated time of the year which is hard on everybody and only a year - yes, one year after everything has been over for you which is no time at all in the big scheme of things - so I understand why you feel the way you do - you are human and an emotional being!

As for other people stepping on eggshells around us I have found its generally the opposite - its usually those who can't have kids who go that extra mile to make everyone feel ok - we have to put in treble the effort, quadruple the braveness - how many times have any of us been to see family or friends with their adorable little ones only to be reduced to tears on the way home? How many times have we all had to endure insensitive comments whilst we've been in these particular situations? I'm not saying that your cousin would do that to you, I'm just generalising here!

Ermey, if your family are the sort of people you can talk to, then do, and explain to them from the heart - I will repeat Astrids line again here - _Remember this is not a personal thing directed at anyone, its a situation that you had no choice about..
_

Wishing you peace and love Ermey
Emcee xxx


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## jomac (Oct 27, 2006)

Dear Erney
I'm sorry that you are having such a horrible time with your family.
It's awful to be grieving and have that grief made even worse by lack of acknowledgment and understanding from those close to us.
When things like that happen I try hard to remind myself that others lack of understanding is often not coming from any desire to hurt us - it is just that - a total lack of understanding. But I know it's easy to sit here and write these words and even harder to live by them.
I met my DH very late in life and spent a lot of my 30's single and the times I used to go home after a work function or whatever and cry Myles to sleep because I felt so alone and everone else was with their partner. Infertility is just like that.
Big hugs to you and take care


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## Hippy (Aug 2, 2005)

Ermey my very,very lovely friend, so sorry I am so late in replying to this post only just spotted it today.

I have sent you a PM, but and just wanted to echo the wise words of the others and send HUGE HIPPY sized hugs to you.

Love
Hippy
xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

Astrid, Emcee, Emma, and Hippy,

Thanks so much for your thoughts on this too. Everyone has been so kind.

I have been losing sleep on this and began to fel like it was all too much and to think the only to move forward was to go back to counselling in order to get myself to see his kids and show him that I care. But surely nobody should be making me feel that bad.

Anyhow, the daft thing is I do love my cousin and my aunty and want this to be ok as much as they do.

Astrid as you said so rightly this is circumastnces, not anything I have done deliberately, and it has helped me to think of it in those terms.
Everyones comments have been very helpful and I have decided to write my cousin a letter explaining why its so hard and how slow recovery is, but that it is happening and we are doing our best. I'm going to explain that we want to see his kids but it needs to just be a little bit at a time at firsrt, and we simply cannot do it any faster than that but we are trying our best.

Hopefully then he will be reassured to have it in balck and white (he is a very black and white person!) that we really do care.

I may nerver send the letter but I think everyone is right that it may help me anyway.

Thank you to everyone for your support. I didn't really expect replies as I just wanted to let off steam somewhere where I wasn't going to offend, but you have been all so wonderful as usual as I know life is not peachy for so many of us.

Thanks so much again, I dont know what I'd do without you all.

Will try and check in on you all later in the week.
xxxxx


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## pink panther (May 4, 2005)

Hi Ermey,
I agree with Emcee and Hippy. I think that it's always US walking on eggshells and tip-toeing round other people.
I've lost count of the amount of times when someone has asked me if I have children and I've given some lame answer like 'not yet' instead of giving them my honest answer, just in case it makes THEM fell uncomfortable!!
It's a shame that IF is like depression in that people simply can't understand it as it's not tangible. I've tried a few times with my bil and sil to contact them and send them a present for their little creature-with no reply/thank you or acknowledgement atall and at the moment I've decided not to make any effort atall with such ignorant people. Problem is, it so often makes me feel so bitter inside...

Sorry if this post has been about me, I do so understand how you feel, but you must think aout yourself and be a little selfish sometimes-self preservation is a good thing- I do hope X comes round to your way of thinking eventually.
Much love pp xx


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## irisheyes (Feb 2, 2005)

Ermey, can i be your shoulder to cry on and you can be mine when our sisters get pg? I am dreading it so much you know but if i have someone to help me thru it that will be a bit better. xxxx Ps are you the oldest? I am and they are all getting married this year and next!!!


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi Ermey and all who just posted!

Wish I got here sooner as I would have liked to offer some support when it was needed, Ermey. Families can be so unsupportive, without thinking.

I am really sorry that at the moment I can't keep up with the site. I am really tired trying to juggle part time job, the freelance work that pays for my horses, seeing my DH who lives apart from me and keeping in touch with my family- all living abroad. Winter is the worst time - lots more expense, less daylight and I just want to be cozy at home but have to be out!! I want to answer all these posts, but by the time I arrive it seems too late.

Love anyway,

Jq


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

Dear Ermey
Are you ok?
thinking of you...
lots of love astridx


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Hi Ermey,

I was so glad to read your last post on this subject ....

It sounds like you feel that at last YOU are reigning back some control of this horrid situation, which I'm sure will only make you feel better about things.

What I would say to you is, (and you can tell me to mind my own and go take a hike here but ...)  a few different experiences of mine have always shown me the same thing and that is, that whatever you write down, maybe just give yourself some distance  from it for a while, before you decide to send it (or not).  From an non-IF perspective, I used to write articles as part of my job and learned that it was more productive just to leave the piece of writing for a few days before reading through it again.  I found that coming back to it a few days later and re-reading it with "fresh eyes" was so beneficial as there was always bits I wanted to change.  Also, coming at this from an IF perspective, I once wrote a letter to an "ex-friend".  I poured my heart out and was very, very sensitive and emotive but in the end, I decided not to send it it at all (it was quite damning on my friend!!) .  Reading it now, nearly 2 years on, I am so glad I didn't send it out !!

Of course, I'm not suggesting you should or should't send a letter.  I'm sure if you do decide to send it, you will be 100% happy with it first.  In my case, I knew I didn't want to see this friend again but yours is totally different ..... you want to retain contact with your cousin ....

I am just glad to see you're taking some control of this .... I promise it WILL make you stronger .....

Hats off to you girl, it's not easy.

Good luck with it and let us know how you get on,
All my love
Gill xo


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

...................  

Just re-read my message and it sounds so patronising ..... sorry, it wasn't meant to come across like that!!

All my love

Gill x


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## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

Hi Gill x

It wasn't patronising AT ALL!!! Daft girl.  

In fact I read it and had to smile to myself especially about your story of writing your long letter to your friend, as a year or so ago I sat down and wrote an 8 page letter to a very old friend of mine who mysteriously vanished off the scene when my IF problems errupted.....and I DID post it!

I saw her recently (after not having seen her for about 4 years!) and we have thankfully picked up where we lft off just like old times, but she mentioned the letter and I was so embarrassed and had to confess that I cannot even remember what I wrote in it...I dread to think now. I think I was trying to explain everything we'd gone through and how sdistressing it was and how hurt i was that she wasnt around, not even a text message, etc etc.  Mind you I reckon I would still stand by the essence of what I said, but maybe not how I said it....as I can't remember its hard to judge!

Luckily she was fine about it and tho it seemed to have made an impression on her (!) it at least helped prompt her back in my life. I wouldn't do it again though as it was a bit risky!!!

Thanks for your concern, I didn't reply before as having a busy week!
(and an adventure at the clinic which kind of eclipsed my brain!)


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi Ermey,

I am sorry I did not get in touch sooner, I am afraid I took the "just ignore me" phrase and the   literally!  I thought you "just wanted to rant" and no replies!!!!  (Me that is!!) Then I saw all the posts and your answers made clear you really appreciated them. 

I do think you have had some really good comments from all the lovely members, so I can add little more except to say I think you have done so well to consider it all so carefully and write back to everyone. Just shows what a considerate person you are. Hope you feel much better.

Lots of love hun,

Jq xxxxx


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## astrid (Feb 10, 2003)

jq said:


> Hi Ermey,
> 
> I am sorry I did not get in touch sooner, I am afraid I took the "just ignore me" phrase and the  literally! I thought you "just wanted to rant" and no replies!!!!  (Me that is!!) Then I saw all the posts and your answers made clear you really appreciated them.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree with JQ more, that it shows you are a considerate person...

love astridx


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