# Tamoxifen / Clomid for males ?



## Deb10 (Sep 5, 2004)

Wondering if anyone can help.

My dh has a very very low sperm count - sometimes none  but enough for ICSI - about 2 motile sperm in the slide.

We saw a fertility specialist in South Africa (male factor specialist) and my DH has been presribed tamoxifen - he needs to take 20mg Mon to Friday (5 days) for a period of 3 months. Then to do another SA to see if it has made a difference.

There are no medical reasons why he has a low count and his hormone levels and all other tests done by urologists are normal.

Have any of you (DP, DH...) had any success - increased sperm count or quality improvement with the use of tamoxifen? or clomid. Any negative outcomes / side effects?

Would appreciate any feedback, thanks Debbie


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## SWEETCHEEKS (Sep 15, 2005)

Hi Debbie,

I always thought Clomid was something that was made for women to make then ovulate?  

Havent heard of the Tamoxifin, were did u get it from? I have heard vit/minerals can sometimes do the trick, my DF also has low sperm count, but his SA's change all the time.. Is this the first SA you DH has had? Because if it is it could just have been on a bad daY?  

My df has had 4 in the space of 18 months, all came back different, some better than others... Sp you see its changes all the time, might be best waiting 3 months for a new fresh seman cycle and see if that one improves, if it does please let me know.. Anything is worth a try, right? !!  

SWeetcheeks xxx


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## Ermey (Aug 17, 2004)

Hi Deb

Hope you are ok and your trip away did you good. I think Claudine and/or Fin have some knowledge of Clomid for men, although Fin is in NY right now.

You might remember from the other thread that my DH is in a very similar situation to yours (single figures of sperm first TESE and one dead one on his second). No explanations although his FSH is very high. I did ask our consultant about Clomid for men, and he was not encouraging, I can't remember exactly what he said except that he was dismissive of it. However I do remember that the advice he gave seemed to contradict what Claudine and Fin were told so don;t give up hope. 

Hope you can get some positive answers. Great to see you back


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## Claudine (Jul 27, 2004)

Hey Deb

Hope the stay in SA did you good and you are feeling well in yourself. I was going to PM you, but then I thought it might be better to give you a rundown of what we're "trialling" so other people can have a look if they're interested.

Actually Dr. Schlegel presents it himself really well.
http://www.maleinfertility.org/new-therapy.html

DH has been on Clomid for 2 months now. We can report no side effects! He is having blood tests every month to check T, FSH and E (estradiol). Latest show that testosterone is now at the very high end of normal (but fortunately he hasn't turned into a raging Hulk, in fact, he seems no different than when he started drugs about 2 months ago). FSh has increased dramatically, hopefully means testicles are working overtime!

The theory is discussed here
http://www.maleinfertility.org/new-noa.html#hormonal
Briefly, although T was normal, the ratio of testosterone to estradiol was not normal compared to a fertile man. Clomid is an estrogen blocker and therefore alters the ratio.

*General note: Clomid/tamoxifen are being suggested/studied for infertile (count in tens/hundreds/thousands) rather than subfertile (millions) men.*

I can't give you any specific evidence yet that this has worked or not, but give us another 3 months. You may remember that one of our problems was that we didn't always have fresh sperm to work with on the day, and what we hope is that the Clomid will give us consistent production (a million whould be nice!)


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## Deb10 (Sep 5, 2004)

Hi Sweetchecks, thanks for your response. My dh been doing vits, all lifestyle changes since 2004 and it hasnt made any difference to his count... still keeping up with it though as we hope perhaps it will make the quality healthy and it certainly makes DH feel better for doing something. We saw a male fertility specialist in SOuth Africa that we got tamoxifen from - I believe some clinics do try it just in case to see if it works - with males. Will let you know outcome of SA in 3 months - 

Claudine and Ermey - lovely to hear from both of you....our trip did so much good - havent been posting much. Going away I actually realised how depressed I had been feeling since our last bfn and it was lovely to spend time away with DH, friends and family and just enjoy the sun. You have both been in my thoughts. Claudine hope the clomid works - our dr said DH could take clomid or tamoxifen and to do a SA in 3 months time. MY dh called our fertility dr here to say what he was doing ie taking tamoxifen the dr was not very encouraging - said it wouldnt help in our situation but I guess we have nothing to lose - from what I understand it cant make DH's sperm count any worse and I agree with you a million would be nice - actually 100 or 1000 would be great too!! MY dh has done 3 tests in last 6 weeks - one showed no sperm (triggered a further depression with me) then the next 2 tests a few sperm - its weird that his count changes within a 3 month slot?

Anyway- I wonder how Fin is gettting on? 

I start my next cycle Jan (if my FSH is ok) - who knows if it will be 3rd time lucky! I have started praying not for a baby but just to have the courage / strength to pick myself up again whatever the outcome. The last few months have been very hard for me / us.

Lets try and meet up in Jan?

Chat soon xx


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