# Please Help! Desperate for advice!



## Lilly04 (Jan 12, 2006)

Hi Ladies,

Did not know quite where to post this, but as I am well over 40 (47) I guess this is a good place?!

My DH and I have just had a failed, 1st attempt at donor I.V.F in London.  We were so sad it did not work and I am still stuggling to come to terms with it, I found it very emotional and I guess desperate because of my age!  (DH & me married 3 years, wish I had met him years ago!!  Me, 2 daughters, previous marriage, DH no children & desperate to have one between us).

Everything looked so promising, 10 eggs collected, 5 fertilised, 2 implanted 8 cells, grade 3/4 (top grades).
No surviving frosties though.  

We went for the follow up consultation & the Con. was all for having another cycle & was busy reading off my medical history from his notes, saying everything was fine.  When I suddenly reminded him that those notes were over a year old, and my periods are now only 21 days apart, instead of 28 as the notes stated.  He looked shocked and immediately changed my Prostap injection to be taken earlier in the next cycle.  We left it that we would start another cycle this month, but came away feeling very confused & a little uncertain.  You never seem to ask questions when you should!

Sorry I am rambling here!  What I am trying to ask is:  Would having a shorter Luteal Phase (Is that right?) have affected our chances of implantation on the last cycle?  With all the blood tests, counciling, hysteroscopy and hanging around for results, the clinic were a year out of date with our history.

This site is all thats keeping me sane!  I can't make any sense out of my own thoughts and am so hoping that some of you could help to clear my head!  (I hope you don't think I'm too old & stupid!)

P.S.  We are now hoping now to go to Altra Vita (Moscow) for 2nd try.  Last go cost £10,000 and we have lost faith & can't afford to go there again!

Love & good wishes to you all, Lilly x


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## cesca (Sep 18, 2004)

Hi Lilly..sorry can't help with the medical side but know how you feel, I am 45 on Saturday and we are going for DE in Spain soon. Still on the waiting list. Had considered moscow but too far away and visas put me off .this time anyway. I have only been married 4 years and I have 2 children from my 1st husband . my 2nd husband has no kids and is desperate for us to have our own child.  I hope you are more successful abroad .good luck  xxx Cesca


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## Lorri (Apr 17, 2005)

Lilly
I can't answer your question either, but it does seem that implantation is the part of the process that cannot be medically controlled. There was an interesting article on Infertile World about it a while back

http://www.infertileworld.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=59&Itemid=1


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## Lilly04 (Jan 12, 2006)

Hi Meerkat, Cesca & Lorri,

Thank you so much for your replies.

At the moment cost is our major factor in deciding where to go next and Moscow seemed really reasonable compared to Harley Street!  Spanish Clinics seem to be quite a bit more expensive than Moscow.  (I hope the prices are no reflection of their success rates!)  We have a Russian friend who lives in Moscow and she has kindly done some 'snooping' into the clinic.  She was impressed & says it has a very good reputation, so lets hope!  The way I feel at the moment, I would take a 'long boat to China' if I thought it would work!!

I was 44 when we first started our baby dream, it's just so scary how the months & years slip by with all the waiting etc.  And then the panic sets in, with a race against time (Could do without that pressure!)

I wish you both so much luck, and all the other ladies on here, in our quest for Motherhood.

Love Lilly xx


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## Joan (Oct 22, 2005)

Hey Good Luck Lilly,

it'll work, don't you worry. keep going and lots of luck and love from Joan xx


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## Lilly04 (Jan 12, 2006)

Hi Joan,

Thank you for your message, everyone is so lovely on this site!  My DH keeps coming up stairs, looking into the spare room where we have the computer and just sighs!!  Best go now, this site is addictive but does not do much for your love life!!

Wishing you lots of luck too,

Love Lilly x


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## longbaygirl (Aug 19, 2004)

Good luck Lilly - quite a few women on FF have had sucess at Altra Vita Moscow. Agree with you that Spain is an expensive option at around 5k a time.  

Cesca - I went to Kiev - no visas and only 3 hrs flying time from the UK.

Joy


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## amies (Apr 19, 2005)

Hi Lilly, just keep going, the road does get there in the end if the posts here are anything to go by...and age, really, just a number...i think we're all supposed to live to be a 100 anyway now so the rate you're going you'll get to be a granny!
Longbaygirl, I haven't posted for ages but I was so pleased to read about your twins, brilliant news..I always wondered about the clinic in Kiev but every time I've tried to search for it no luck or else only non English sites...could you let me know how to reach them if you have a mo and perhaps if they let you see/select donors...much love to all, sam xxx


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## Lilly04 (Jan 12, 2006)

Thank Joy & Sam,

I had an e-mail from Altra Vita from one of the doctors, in answer to my question of shortened cycles, he said in his opinion, he did not think it would have made any difference to our outcome.  So that made me feel a bit happier.

Longbaygirl, you must be so over the moon with your twins!  I did write to Kiev and had a very nice reply.  They said they would be happy to treat us, so might be an option to bear in mind, you obviously recommend them!!

Amies, I typed into google: www.isida.com.ua and chose the English version button to get the information on the clinic, hope this helps.

Just bought 20 HPt's on ebay tonight for £4.95!!  Nothing like being prepared & raisings ones spirits!!

Love to you all, Lilly x


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Lilly,

Your short luteal phase should not have had any effect on an ivf cycle as it is a hormonally controlled cycle governed by the drugs you take.  Your retrieval represents 'ovuation' and you are then supplemented by progesterone (luteal support) which should be adequate to give you a perfectly long enough luteal phase.  This is not the same as a natural cycle where your short luteal phase could have presented potential difficulties.

Good luck

Daisy


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## Lilly04 (Jan 12, 2006)

Thanks Daisy for your reply,

I do get very confused with all this!  Would taking Progynova and Cyclogest help with getting pregnant on a natural cycle?  I have loads left over from my last tx.  My FSH etc. are quite low for my age & I was now wondering if my short luteal phase was the problem all along. 

I am having a Hysteroscopy and Laparoscopy on April 5th to remove 3 fibroids, so am also hoping this will help!  And then it's on to the next donor I.V.F abroad.

I still keep hoping and wishing (as I'm sure we all do) that it will happen naturally in the meantime!!

Lots of love, Lilly x


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## Womb with a View (Dec 7, 2004)

Hi Lily,

Sorry to read of your negative donor cycle.  I too am 47.  Please don't feel old - I don't feel, behave or seem old to others so I'm sure you don't either.  We'll make fab mummies.  

There's an abroadies thread (Going abroad for TX) which might help you and we're lovely people on there too!  Both these threads are very supportive.  

I'm at the IM in Barcelona and currently undergoing a dummy cycle as the last 2 cycles (one fresh donor, one frozen cycle) were negative (one bio chemical) so we wish to check the blood flow to the womb.  

I know what you mean about the panic and pressure of time.  However, with donor eggs I've found that lifted slightly for me.  Still hurts when I haven't had a positive result yet but I feel I have more time now.  If not the cash!

My DP and I don't have any children from previous relationships and would dearly love a family of our own.  I'm a bit stubborn, never really hear the word "no" or "not possible" and truly believe, in my innocence and ignorance probably, that where there is a will there must be a way.  I've never given up on anything in my life, against all odds, and I'm not going to start now!

We are always here for you.  You DP will just have to get used to you on that computer with FF!  

Btw - what on earth did you buy 20 HPT sticks for?!  You won't need that many.....perhaps just the one, hopefully!  

Love, AJ xx


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## veballan (Feb 1, 2006)

Hi everyone on this thread 

I have just been reading your post and you have given me so much encouragement. Having met my perfect DP I too waited for the right one and just after we were referred to NHS gyny I turned 40 (at Xmas) we have male factor I got the your told old speall from the gyny as my FSH is 10 that really the issue is with me which is not what I expected to hear and it has been doing my head in since.
The panic about the lecture that in being over 40 months matter not years and even today when we came out of DP's urology consultation he turned and said perhaps we should consider a sperm donor as time is not on  our side. what he means is that I am getting old.
I have spent the entire evening immersed in my computer work and tearful.
Is so unfair my next door neighbour is 18 months old and pregnant naturally with her second due on the same date as her first's second birthday - hows that for timing.
I have never tried for a child outside this relationship which because of DP problems we always new without help was a no go area.

All my other levels and hycosy cycle 28 days etc are normal but I feel like these gynys just right you off and try and discourage you from trying I have never felt my age as I do now and tonight reading your words of comfort for each other on this thread I am cheered and feel I have at least started to put the tears aside for a morale strengthening session.
Thank you and good luck to everyone.

Best wishes 
Venallan
X PS Please can I ask Lily what clinic she you were at when the doc didn't even have your up to date notes? 

.


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## Lilly04 (Jan 12, 2006)

Hi AJ 

Lovely to have your message!  

AJ,  I have been following your news for some time, knowing we are the same age, but have only recently had the courage to post.  Your attitude is great!  Thank you for your encouragement & welcome!  With your positive outlook I know you will live your dream very soon!  We are going to Altra Vita, Moscow, as soon as the hysteroscopy etc. has been done in April.  In the mean time I managed to get a copy of the 'Zita West' book on Ebay & have been immersed in that for most of the day!

At 'our age' 47 going on 20!!!!  Does using donor eggs have the same success rates as for other age groups?  I know they say you should have the same success as if you were the donors age, but we have been refused cycles at some clinics because of the age factor.

I so hope your 'dummy cycle' is going o.k. I will be waiting to hear your news & hopefully speak to you on the 'Abraodies' soon!

P.S. I have a thing about Pee Sticks!!  Well, only £4.99 for 20?!! How can a girl resist!! He He!

Lots of love Lilly xx


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## Lilly04 (Jan 12, 2006)

Hi Veballan,

You will find alot of support on FF everyone is so lovely and supportive.  You are young compared to me!  I am sure with perseverance & not listening to some of these 'old quacks', that you will get there!

When we first started all this (4 years ago) we had an NHS appointment for I.V.F having been referred by our GP.  We were very green to all this at that stage & had a horrendous appointment with a doctor who told my Dh that she would 'Not even consider IVF with a sperm count like that!'  As far as we knew, there was nothing wrong with my Dh's sperm.  She left the room not saying another word, leaving us feeling totally crushed & my poor Dh very upset.

We later had another sperm test done and it was absoloutely normal!  I was so angry at her attitude.  Some of these doctors have not got a clue as to our needs or feelings.  So what I am really saying is, don't let them get you down!  You know how you feel, you know your body and what you are capable of, GO FOR IT!!

Wishing you and your DP all the luck in the world,

Love Lilly xx


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## Womb with a View (Dec 7, 2004)

Hi Lilly, lovely to chat and when I read you'd been following my progress/news I was really happy as I felt I wasn't alone.  Bless you!  Thank you so much for your words of encouragement and belief in me.  I do believe that if you keep going at something, you'll get there in the end.  Of course, it doesn't happen for everyone....but that won't discourage me!

I asked the IM in Barcelona what our chances were with donor eggs, as I thought my age might affect our chances but Dr Olivares said that my chances were as good as a 26 year old (this was after examining my womb and read my notes of course).  However, there are certain doctors who don't believe this.  I would say that, obviously, there must be a reason I haven't gone on to carry a baby with 2 donor cycles (one frozen) and perhaps this will be shown to be the blood flow to my womb (will find out tomorrow).  If that is the case, then perhaps it is my age.  I think the "conditions" within the womb have to be right for implantation and perhaps us ladies have to investigate all angles to make sure our wombs are in top condition.  Dr Olivares initially gave us a 70% chance of success with a 10% miscarriage rate.....but these figures have yet to be validated I believe.  All I know is that my chances are far greater than with my own eggs as my FSH levels had started to climb.

Good luck to you and I hope your hopes and dreams come true!  

Love, AJ xx ps, maybe you can sell the surplus pee-sticks you will have left over back on Ebay!!


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## Lilly04 (Jan 12, 2006)

Hi AJ,

That's great to hear!  Having the equivalent chance of a 26 year old! (Pity the body couldn't look the same!! He He)  You are so right, I believe too, that if you want something badly enough and are prepared to work for it, you will achieve it in the end. What a wonderfull Mum you are going to be!  I love your spirit!

You sound happy with your clinic.  If it is a blood flow issue, this is easily rectified isn't it?  I just think it takes a few goes (although so painfull) to make a 'tweak' here and there.  I don't think I will ever give up, so you might see me in the papers at 60!!

I like this little motto:

"According to the law of aerodynamics, the Bumble Bee cannot fly, nobody ever bothered to tell the bee!!"

Lots of luck for tomorrow, I will be thinking of you.

P.S.  Maybe I could auction my 'positive' Pee stick on Ebay when I get it!!  Eeewwwwwww!

love Lilly xx


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## Womb with a View (Dec 7, 2004)

Hi Lilly, I think you'll be framing the positive pee-stick ......I know lots of ladies who keep it in their bag, keep looking at it, bless.  I think I'll frame mine!  

Your saying, about the bumble bee?  You'll never believe this.....it's one of my favourites too and (I'm a hypnotherapist) I often use it to tell my clients, especially children.  

I too will never "give up" and I reckon if that woman from Croatia (I think it was) who was 68 years old can get pregnant, so can I.  Not saying that I want to be that old, just saying if it's possible with donor eggs for her......

I am happy with my cliinic at I do have a few grips.....like I did ask for a doppler scan at my first appointment and after the first BFN there.  I was told there was nothing to indicate such a problem.  Grrrr.  They might be right, we'll find out today, but they might have been wrong.  I should have pushed it.  Also, I don't like the fact they don't tell you anything about the donor until minutes before ET.  Otherwise, they are very good.  I'd be even more of an advocate if they got me pregnant!! Er, that should read, "when they get me pregnant"!!!! 

Love to you all,
AJ xx


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