# Big decision time. Can you help me mull it over?



## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi lovely friends.

I have a huge decision to make and would appreciate some input. It is not directly a fertility related concern, but if it was not for IF, I would not be in this position, so you friends seem to be the most likely to understand where i am coming from! I will try and be succient while filling newer members in on my past.

DH and i split up following IF tx. I left him. 

He moved out of the town we lived in together into a small town closer to his work in a college in yet a bigger town. Meanwhile he bought a place in the town we used to live in where he has set up a little martial arts business that he can build on when he retires from college.

I moved to a little place the other side of where we lived (more rural and close to where I keep my horses) and got a new part time job even further out into the country and supplement my wage with freelance work. (Basically I am an expert in adult eduction.) Sometimes I enjoy my work, but I have also thought about changing direction and training as a counsellor. Due to practical considerations re mortgge and horse expenses I have not really thought hard about this idea as it seemed to be unworkable while I needed to cover my expenses.

DH and I stayed in touch and missed one another badly and so got back together. Though we still live apart our relationship is stronger than ever.

Recently we have started to plan living together again. It is not easy as neither of us really can face moving to the other's area as it would involve so much commuting to work. It is especially hard for me as I have to go see to the horses before and after work. Moving the horses to his area is not really feasible as it is not rural. (Botttom line for me, I have to keep my horses. I have had the older one for 22 years and she was there for me during IF years and the younger one is her daughter, my baby substitute!)

We have looked into going back to the town  where we used to live and in between where we are now. The trouble there is that it is a really posh place where prices go up no matter what is happening in the market elsewhere and we could not even afford a smaller house (recently advertised) in the street we left! We could afford a nice flat but the flats do not suit our lifestyles- our cat needs a garden and there is nowhere for his gym stuff or my muddy wellies and dirty coat (never mind saddles, bridles and rugs!) as they do not have even a hall!

DH has suggested that a way forward would be for me to go live with him for the next 3 years till he retires from college. I could sell or rent out my house. The idea is that I would give up my job and so not have too much commuting time as I would just have to go see to the horses and not have to fit that in to a working day. Plus I could do the part time counselling course which is in easy reach of his place and the horses. DH would "keep" me but i would need enough income to pay for the horses, either from freelance work or from house rental/interest on the sale procedes or a combination. DH has even said i would not have to do any housework as he is used to keeping the place up together! Once his 3 yrs to retirement is up we pool our capital and move somewhere that suits us both in that we can have easy access to my horses and his martial arts concern. (And the building could even accommodate a counselling room!)

So what you may ask do I need to consider? Well it is this

- I am not used to being dependant and DH's idea would involve me depending on him, If I was a mum that would be Ok by me as I would see that as my job and a shared responsibility. But why else can I expect DH to pay for me?
- If I want something I sort it out myself. How will I cope with having to ask?
- How much do I want to give up my current job? There are aspscts I hate, but there is also a lot of job satisfaction
- Now given the opportunity, do I really want to train as a counsellor? Will I be any good at it?Will I get woork?

Sorry if this is a little long nd rambling! I guess that by writing I am mulling it all over?

Thamks for reading!

Jq xxxx


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Hi jq

I think you have summed this all up perfectly with the last points you have raised!

I can't speak for you, only for myself, and I sense you are a kindred spirit so hope you'll understand...

It seems as if you would be giving up everything in your current life at the moment to share with your dear heart - if this were me, it would be enough to give me an attack of the vapours and want to run! OK, hobble... I am a peg leg after all! 

First priorities (all on equal pegging) are your accomodation, mortgage and your darling horses. To move far from them would mean that you would not be accessible to them if you needed to be there quickly.

Secondly, why should you move from a place that you love to somewhere tiny and further away? Could this potentially cause problems between the both of you?

Thirdly - relying on your partner... sorry if I ruffle feathers here, I am the sort of lady who has always been very independent and admit I squirm at the thought of having to rely on my DH - of course I love him to bits, but I need my independence too! 

It seems more feasible for your partner to move in with you - mainly because of the logistics of looking after the horses. OK, so he may have to commute - but this is for work which will be ending in 3 years when he retires so its not long term, unlike the care and upkeep of your horses!

You say about training as a counsellor - could you not manage to do this whilst you continue working? Surely the career you are in must have pathways to further learning? As to having a client base - can't answer that one for you honey, don't know what sort of 'target market' (for want of better words)! you are thinking of helping, are you looking to specialise in a particular type of counselling, ie relationships, infertility? I suppose you need to do your homework as it were and find out what sort of counselling is in demand in the area you are going to be thinking of working in.

Finally, what were you doing up at such a silly time? I've been on nights so I'm allowed to be up at silly times  

Mull some more, you're always welcome - and feel free to completely pick to pieces everything I have said to you, you know I won't take it personally!  Hope the mulling helps you to make some sense of it all. Some big lifestyle choices ahead for you then my lovely, huh?

Lots of love
Emcee xxx


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## emmag (Mar 11, 2007)

Hello jq! 

Maybe I can give a bit of the other side of the question, because I am a "kept woman" and have been for several years, all because of IF - long story short: I couldn't cope with working with people talking about kids all the time and people getting pg all around me, even though I changed jobs a few times, so DH said "screw it" and I've been a housewife ever since. 

Your considerations: 

1. About being dependant: I do sometimes feel very guilty about this. I think my concerns are possibly more about what other people think, than what myself and DH think - like you said, if we had a baby, it wouldn't even be a consideration. I can't stand when people ask what I do, and when I say "housewife", they ask how many kids do I have. I feel I have to explain myself, but if I had a baby, my situation would be accepted. That's society's problem, not mine. Besides, if DH had to support me AND a couple of kids, it would cost a LOT more than just supporting me!  DH is an adult and able to rationalise his decisions, and we do keep open communication about this issue. He feels that it's not about money, but about what we do for each other and "the family" - (us and the cats), he talks about the situation in terms of what we each put on the table, and he feels that in that sense, our contributions are balanaced. Money is not the only thing that a couple need to put in to a relationship.

2. Having to ask for stuff: We don't do this anymore since we moved and all our bank bits and bobs changed, but it worked really well - having a bank account you can use/access with an agreed budget per month, or I've heard of people doing the same thing with cash. 

3. Current job satisfaction vs bits you hate: Only you can answer this one. Leaving work took so much pressure off for me, but I don't know if it would be the same for you. I'm pretty rubbish at making decisions - at what point do you let go of a rising balloon?

4. Do you really want to train as a counsellor?: Again, only you know the answer to this one , BUT...

- Will you be any good at it?: Onmygod YES! I really believe you will.


I feel I've rambled a bit, but I hope my experiences can help a bit. xx


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## Yamoona (Nov 7, 2005)

Hi ya

When I first met my DH he was a student and I worked full time. I paid the mortgage, the bills and kept everything running. This continued for 3 years and then I became unwell. I had no choice but to give up work and DH had no choice (we weren't married at this point) but to start full time employment. After a year I went back to work part time whilst working on my own business the rest of the week and although I struggled to give up my Independence I am glad I did. He is the first person I have ever let help me and this is not something I do easily. I do still sort all the bills and run the house and we have separate bank accounts but I only have to ask if I need something and together we work it out if it is feasible. I feel I have grown as a person for letting someone into my life that helps me pursue my dreams, I would never be able to have my business if it wasn't for him. Being a counsellor will not make you rich no matter how good you are and throughout your training and your career you have to also pay out for counselling for yourself. Most seem to do it for the love of the job so it would be nice to have that support at home.

As for where you live, that is a tricky one because of the horses, being an animal lover myself I would probably base my decision on what was best for them. Not working would give you that time to spend with them and complete your course. Working on top of that might make life a bit hectic. I think the answer will come to you in time. Good luck xx


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## Pol (Mar 9, 2007)

Hello!

I have to admit that it does seem to me that it would make more sense for him to move to you, but in regard to your questions ...

- I have a very good friend who is a counsellor and tells me that it is incredibly difficult getting work.  She's been working at a university, but they have just told her they don't have the funding for her to continue.  No question that there's demand, but probably worth getting some advice (I know there is at least one association of counsellors!) on this before you go ahead.  However I have no doubt you'd be a brilliant counsellor!

- I've just 'kept' my DH for 4 months - the whole IF thing really got to him and he decided he needed some 'him' time to get sane again, work out what he wanted to do with his life, and work out who he was in relationship to his parents / his expectiations for the future etc.  He just started work again on Monday.  I have to say I was very worried and stressed about him but more because I was concerned that, being at home alone most days, he'd just get more depressed since he was starting from a very low point.  The whole 'being dependent' thing wasn't a problem, as we have always had both a joint account and two separate accounts.  During the time he wasn't working I paid extra into the joint account for both of us to use on bills, food etc, and he had some savings (and a little bit of odd job / selling things on ebay income) so he didn't have to ask me for anything.  It's amazing how little you can live on when not working!  We had always budgeted in buying our house etc that I would stop work and look after 'the children', so I knew DH would have done the same for me. Having said that, I was starting to feel a bit fed up that we neither had children, nor the extra income of two people working ... so we were starting to have to think we wouldn't be able to afford holidays etc ... so it's very very nice to have him back in a good mental state and starting a job he's really excited about.  Basically my feeling is that there is always a way of making sure that you can keep your 'independence' and I have to say DH made a fantastic house-husband and was so supportive that I thorougly enjoyed having him all to myself for a bit and not having to share him with work!

I don't really have anything else of any use to share ... thinking about setting up home together 'in later life' when you both have so many committments must be really stressful, but I guess it's also really exciting once you can see your way through the problems!

Jx


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## Myownangel (Aug 24, 2005)

Dear jq,
I haven't read the other answers as I want to give you my first thoughts without any influence. I think the plan sounds very good and logical. It seems to me the only drawback is being more dependent on dh. The fact that you have been apart and now back together stronger sounds as though commitment is not a problem - I think that is the key. I am like you in that I have always been independent, but when I really look at things it is not quite that way and dh brings in more money and saves more etc. But I don't get worked up about it cos I think of us as a unit - pulling together. Two heads are better than one - by having a good partnership it enables you to do things you otherwise couldn't - you'll be able to learn new skills and perhaps start off a new career. When I think about inequality in my relationship with dh I remind myself of the years when I supported him totally as he did his MSc. I bet there have been times when you've looked after your partner. And if not - then think about the future. Who knows where your new career may lead (or what could happen to his) and you may end up supporting him.
I know that feeling you describe that if you were a mum it would be different etc. But really that is just a stereotype. 
My answer is to listen to your heart. When I have really big decisions I try to tune in to my heart - it is never wrong.
Bernie xxx


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Oh thank you all so much!

Your replies are so helpful and I am gratefull that you have shared your personal experiences. 

Pol, I am pleased to hear that your DH is feeling stronger and excited about his new job. I wish him every success. Your story shows how supporting one another can be hard at times but is part and parcel of being a loving couple willing to give and take for the benefit of each partner and so for the relationship.

Emcee, I really appreciate that you have challenged me to think hard! We do seem to be kindred spirits and you are so right to ask the tough questions. If I can't answer them then I don't know what I am contemplating.

More mulling it over follows, so please feel free to check out now! I may as well write my mulling over thoughts here as anywhere, so no need for my FF to read or respond again!

I was glad to hear how many of you felt about financial dependance. As some of you have said, it is about being a unit and sharing resources. DH is clear that he feels totally OK about bring in more money to our partnership, what is important is finding a way to be together that does not involve either of us in the stress of hours and hours commuting and allows each of us to follow our dreams. (Emcee honey, I will come onto your take on this later!)

Clearly it makes more sense for DH to move to my place if I continue in my regular job. In fact if I decide to do that he is willing to move to my area. Because he stays with me and I with him at least one weekday night a week (as well as over the weekends) we know how the journeys to our jobs are from the two homes. It takes him 2 hours to get to work from my place, and would take the same to get back.  It takes me 2.5 hours to get from his place to work as I have to make the detour to the horses and do the routine chores there. (It's OK  for each of us once a week, but not everyday for 3 years!) I guess that some people see this commuting time as normal, depends on where you live and work I guess, but in our region it is just not what people expect. (Currently it takes DH 15 mins by car from his place and he can also cycle there which is part of his keeping fit. My home to horses to work time is currently 1 hour 45 mins. It would just be 45 if not for the horses.)

I guess this aspect of the problem is the same as any couple who live and work a way apart when planning to live together. The logical thing for many would be to change jobs. But at our point in life that does not make sense - he is unlikely to find a new position so close to retirement anyway. And if I am to make a change, I would rather it be in a new direction than to do similar work with a new employer. (Actually my job is about the best I could expect in my specialisation in the whole region, so if I stay in this field I would find it hard to give it up!) 

The idea of my moving in with him and giving up my part time job (25 hours over the week) came about as I have long been considering the counselling training and this would allow me to do that. I would not have to commute to work via the horses, just to the horses which is 30mins from his place if I aim to get to them by 10 and so miss the rush hour jams. (10 is fine as I already have a friend who puts their feed in early if I am not there and is willing to do that everyday as I do her horses for her when she visits her DH abroad.) Apart form occassional appointments, usually at a time of my choice, I currently do most of the freelance work from home (about 12 to 16 hs a week) as it is usually about writing stuff and I can do it at whatever time I feel like. If I move to DH's place and want to do that work during the day I can avoid going back and forward between home and horses by working in the library close to the horses or even go to his business premises which is halfway between the horses and his (would be our) place. I would have to go to the counselling course one day a week and it would take me 15 mins to get there after doing the horses in the morning (as long as it starts at 10, not 9 which I think it does.) I would eventually need a placement, but more of that later.

I know that counselling work is not going to make me rich, that is fine as I am not money motivated and as we will not have to have a mortgage in 3 years time it is less of an issue than it might otherwise be. I also know that it can be hard to get work. I would not be looking for a full time employee situation but some sort of portfolio of freelance/part time work. I am lucky in that while I train and later build up enough counselling work I can keep up my freelance work. I have some long term clients who I enjoy working with and that could continue. Indeed with new skills they may have other work for me such as employee counselling and maybe training courses in things like listening skills, mentoring and so on. 

I have a counselling work possibility which is with a charity of which I used to be a trustee. They offer placements to trainee counsellors in return for the necessary professional supervision and are on the list of approved placements from the course I want to do. A great thing about their placements is that they have sessions morning, afternoon, evenings and even saturdays as they offer counselling to fit into people's work and other commitments. So trainee counsellors who are lucky enough to get a placement there have quite some choice about when to work. As the trainees become qualified they can be offered paid sessional work. This makes it a popular placement! I have already spoken to the director who would love to have me involved again, this time on the ground. She feels confident that once I am qualified there would be paid work there for me. (Travel time would not be an issue outside the rush hours from either DH's place. mine or from anywhere we may settle when he retires.)

I am also lucky in that if I can build up a private practice I could use DH's business property at no cost to me, or if I paid him rent on a sessional basis it would be going into his business! The building is a converted chapel with a sports room in the old worship space used for things like Aikido, pilates and yoga. The upstairs space includes office space, quiet rooms and a training room currently used on a sessional basis by a couple of charities. I could use the quiet rooms for counselling sessions and the other activities would not be incompatible.

All this feels as though I have as good a chance as anyone of making a move into counselling. It is too early to say what I would like to specialise in as I think that during training my views about that will develop. At present I feel interested in supporting older people with the challenges of continuing to grow as they age. I think that with the demographic changes in society there may be a need for this sort of work and also a gap in the market as a lot of counsellors seem to concentrate on the issues of younger adults. My own age would be an advantage as I think a lot of older clients would prefer a counsellor closer to their age. Also if I was able to build and sustain a private practice I could work for as long as I want to without having an employer force me to retire!

OK, time to look at Emcee's specific challanges!

It does not feel like I would be giving everything up to live with DH. There look like being as many gains as sacrifices. The problem is in weighing up their relative balance.

Moving further from my beloved horses. You are right that from where I currently live I could get there fast in a crisis. But I am only at home in the evenings and once all the livery owners have gone home and the farmer is in his house, nobody would notice an evening crisis, so living near makes no difference after dark. Also, no matter how close you live, you could be away duriing a crisis anyway - at work, at the cinema with the mobile switched off, visiting friends/family, (I am at DH's place 2 nights a week) on holiday etc... DH's place is only 5 miles further from the farm than where I currently work (albeit in an opposite direction) so I could get to them almost as fast from his place as from work. We are very lucky on our livery yard as a local vet has a horse surgary there and lives close by, so if the farmer did notice a problem the vet would likely get there before any of the owners could do and has all the emergancy facilities on site. (A very good reason for my horses staying put, wherever I live.)

Although moving into DH's place would mean living further from the horses I would actually have more time with them as the plan means giving up my regular daytime job. Apart from the counselling course I could be there for more hours Mon to Fri than is currently possible.

Moving away from a place I love. Well Emcee, my house. I do like the house itself, and I love my big kitchen. The fact that the garden lies beyond a path to 2 other houses is a bit of a pain. (Wierd arrangement due to ancient landrights!) I hate the road the house is on which is busier than I realised when I bought it (in a bit of a hurry to move when DH and I split, I never checked out the volume of traffic during the rush hour!) Plus as all the neighbours agree, it has got worse in recent years. The road stops me from having a cat. When I bought the place the sellers said, don't have a cat, everyone on this street who has had a cat has had a run over cat! When DH and I split I was happy for him to have our cat as his place is much more suitable. Whatever DH and i decide to do next, I would like to get away from the road and have a cat friendly home again!

His place is no more tiny than mine. So whether he moves in with me or I with him would be the same.But him and the cat moving i nwith me would be a risk to the cat! That is why we started to look for a new place together. We still will if I decide to stay in my job. If I retrain in the 3 years till his retirement we will look for somewhere new together in 3 years time.

The fact that his place is further from my regular job becomes a non- issue if i give up the job. Distance from the horses would not be an issue if I do not have to get to work as well as to them.

Becoming dependant on DH is the issue on which I cannot reel off such easy answers! That is probably the thing I worry about most. I have always been independant and rather stubborn about it! I guess I have to come to terms with deciding if I can accept sacrificing short term independance for the chance to make a new life that offers DH and I more time together, which we both want , plus more time for me with the horses, to do a course I have long wanted to do and the possibility of creating work for myself that could both fullfill me and fit into my preferred lifestyle. This may seem like a no-brainer to some, but Emcee will realise how difficult this is for us fiercely independant beings! I am listening to Yamoona here who says that letting someone into her life that lets her persue her dreams has been an opportunity to grow.

Emcee, I have not seen a way to do the counselling training while working full time with my regular job and freelance work and keeping the horses. As I say, having horses is my bottom line and they require 2 hours of my time every day if I don't ride. (not including travel time.) But I keep them so I can ride, so I need riding time too! Work and horses leave me with no energy to do much else that requires an alert brain. I cannot afford to reduce work. My regular job just about pays for the normal household and food bills. The freelance work pays for the horses. 

My employer does offer the opportunity for further training, but only if it benefits the organisation. They would not support me to do counselling training. At the moment they want me to do a year long one day a week course (plus homework) that they are trying to sell me as really easy for me as I know it all already! (Sounds big headed, but I do, this is just a new version of qualifications I have already and does not recognise more years of experience than I care to tot up!) Such is working in the crazy world of adult education and government initiatives which are usually about re-inventing the wheel so as to look like you are improving standards without spnding any mony!) The benefit to my organisation is that they can add letters to my name when selling my services and the benefits to me are the letters on my CV. (Maybe useful if I want to stay in that field, but as you know, I am not so sure I do!) My boss is telling me I am lucky as they will pay the fees even though I will have to do the course and homework in my own time. They say they cannot offer me any time off work as I only do equivalent to 3 days a week and they cannot do with less of my time. 

The only way I could do the course is to do less freelance work and so loose income. This feels very unfair as they do offer paid time off for full time employees to study. So full timers can do courses and not loose income! This feels even more unfair as i used to be full time until a financial crisis when I was offered the choice of redundancy or reduced hours! As somebody then living without a partner to share the bills I took the reduced hours so I would at least have a regular income and made up the difference by getting freelance work. Other employees offered the same "choice" but who had the cushion of a partner's income left and were replaced by people who wanted to work part time .It feels like I am being taken advantage of and is the kind of reason I often fell unhappy in this work. 

I am worried about how to deal with this as it will look bad if I refuse. But I can see no way to do the course any more than I can do  a counselling course unless I rely on DH for a while. And I don't even want to do it! The new part-timers are going to do it, but they are in a differnt situation from me. Wait for it! They are part time cos they are mums and have earning husbands. Also they are younger and so have less experience than me and less qualifications, so see this as a career opportunity. 

If you have got this far, thanks and well done! It has helped me to mull my thoughts over with the responses to my first post.


LOL

jq xxxx

As for silly times Emcee, I am up late trying to decide what to do! I don't havve time in the day!!!!

Thanks evryone!

Jq xxx


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## emcee (Apr 3, 2005)

Hi jq

I'm glad we have all helped you mull things over a bit more - hopefully it will help you come to a clearer conclusion about what you're going to do!

I have to say it all sounds incredibly exciting   I'm sure its stressful too, but the excitement part of it all leaps out at me!

I knew we were kindred spirits - I chose this house mainly because it was suitable for my cats, although there have been other houses we could have taken that were bigger etc this one was best as it is far enough away from the main roads so my hairy girls (hopefully) won't get hurt!   totally get you there about your cat!

Independence - hmmmm.... its a tough call. Know I hated relying upon my DH whilst I was off work after 2 big knee ops in close succession. I hated how DH was stressed working all the hours and looking after me, and I hated not being able to be productive myself! I'm far too stubborn and far too good at relying on myself - something I think that has carried over from my living alone days many moons ago! DH is wonderful and he loves looking after me, but me being such a moo wants to be able to look after me/him/the cats too! 

Grrrrrrr about your colleagues who are all parents who enjoy their part time hours & see this course as a career move - it seems you are in a lose / lose situation there. I would want to tell your employer to go shove their job too! Incidentally my company have slapped me on a course too - I haven't started it properly yet and have absolutetly no interest in it whatsoever, bearing in mind I stuck with my job in the first place because I was planning IVF, maternity etc! I'm only in the position I'm in at work now because they tried to force me to take a lower paid position with less holidays last year if you remember jq! And I fought them all the way the barstewards! I am pondering on telling them to shove the course up the far reaches of their backsides actually  

So it seems that if you move in with him and tell your employers to go shove it (!) you are no worse off than what you are now. And if you can definitely get work as a counsellor then you don't have much to lose! And you will have more time with your beloved 4 legged darlings - yes there will be a lot of hard work re-training and some sacrifices along the way. You'll just have to leave your muddy wellies and things in your car   

Batten down the hatches world, here comes the tornado otherwise known as jq!  

Keep mulling hon... and get some sleep!   

Love
Emcee xxx


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## jq (Nov 14, 2006)

Thanks again everyone. Will keep you posted!

Emcee, a personal pm on the way!

LOL Jqxxx


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## Pol (Mar 9, 2007)

Hi Jq

I have to say that your second post, with so much more detail, does make it all sound like a very good and exciting plan to me.  It seems like so many things fall in to place in terms of this 'new life' vision, and you have got so far in planning it all that it really does make sense.

DH and I are both Librans, so have trouble making big decisions as we can see both sides of the argument (   or if you don't believe in astrology, maybe it's just that we are both ditherers!) and one technique we find works is to make the decision and start living with it, and then see how that feels - obviously not actually resign or anthing, but start telling your friends and family that you 'have decided this is what you are doing' and see whether that makes you feel happy and excited or whether it just feels all wrong and 'not the right shape'.  Within a week you'll probably know whether it's right or not. Obviously I'd suggest telling your DH that you're 'trying the decision out for size' or he might get totally confused    Most recently my husband tried this out when he was considering setting up a capentry business rather than returning to being employed.  He started telling everyone that that was the decision (and everyone seemed to think it was a great idea) and even started taking on orders (which he's now having to complete in his spare time   ) but within 4 days he had decided that it just wasn't right.  It didn't fit with where I was in life, and he missed aspects of work (like getting dressed up smart!) that he had previously taken for granted.

Finally on the mutual dependence side - thank you for your kind words.  One last thing I would say, is that you could look at it like this:  by retraining as a counsellor you are putting yourself in a position to continue earning for many many years to come should you wish to.  As you say, noone is going to force retirement on you, and your age could well be an asset (as a younger person I would also hate to have a young counsellor - mine is in her 60s and is fab as she's done so much in her life and having a perspective on things is what I need).  So it may turn out in the end that you carry on being an earner after your DH has decided to stop - you just can't tell.  

Good luck with your mulling

Jx


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