# End of a relationship - 39 - generous 'anonymous' donor lined up



## briz39 (May 19, 2013)

Hi All

Forgive me if I get any protocol wrong and for not knowing any abbreviations yet, etc.

So:  My story.  It's a long one with bad taste in men being the common theme.  Or at least not knowing when to walk away...

We have been together for 3 years.  I became pregnant by mistake (genuinely - we were avoiding fertile times and I got pregnant on day 21 or thereabouts, which was a surprise) 5 months in.  He tried to make me have an abortion and, it turned out later, moved his ex-girlfriend in within 24 hours.  

She moved away, he began visiting, we booked a holiday but then I had the 12 week scan and discovered a missed miscarriage.  He was supportive.

We carried on for a few months.  He visited his ex, lied about it, got caught out.  Things have been better since then - but my trust in him never recovered.

I found out in January that I have low AMH (3) for my age, which is not good from what I gather.  I told him when I found out and said I'm out of time.  I pressed him for a decision a few weeks ago.  He said he 'can't do it'.  I'd always hoped he would see that we are a good team, that we can do it.  But clearly not.

Since then we've had a pretty terrible holiday and, yesterday, a terrible argument.  We both need it to end, now.  

In the meantime:  My very good friend has a newish boyfriend - someone she's known a long time, but only been in a relationship with for a year or thereabouts.  She told him of my dilemma and, as he doesn't know me, he's happy to help.

So I have a donor.  Given the costs of IVF I don't feel I can look a gifthorse in the mouth.  

Although - I find it pretty weird.  We have a plan - they will visit for the weekend (which gives me, by my calculations) my 3 most fertile days.  He'll stay in the lounge, me in the bedroom and she'll run in between.  It seems a little like an extreme episode of Miranda or something.

But - he's not interested in the potential child.  In fact, that's his only concern.  It's mine too so we're in a good position.  I don't want to know anything other than his first name.  I don't want to meet him.

So that's the plan.  

The logistics and weirdness aside, the end of my relationship aside...

I don't trust it to work.  Given my AMH, plus my 2 miscarriages thus far (one at 23 as well as one at 36)... I just have very little faith.

But I have to try.  It's the only thing I've ever wanted.  I can't believe I might have missed my last chance, just because I have a habit of staying in a relationship too long.  :-/  

Anyway, that's me.  The reason I'm here is... Advice?  

Plus, plan c is IVF abroad.  (Plan a was boyfriend, donor is plan b so that leaves c).  I don't know much about it.  Sure that all I need is on here.  But where?

Right - hope that wasn't too much information.  Feel free to ask anything. 

Thanks for 'listening'.

E


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

have you considered the legal side and informed him as he will be the legal father of the child - perhaps contact Natalie or Lou (FF lawyers) and ensure that he and you know the full legal implications of conceiving by AI not in a clinic setting. I also TTC with my friend and started off this way.


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## jdm4tth3ws (May 20, 2012)

hiya briz 39,

i hope you dont mind me asking this - but have you ever thought of donated embryo's?
is the yearning for your own biological child or a child.  sorry, the only reason i ask is the AI seems a little complicated to me - possibly legally and may push boundaries with your friend that may not have even been considered.

however, donated embryos or double donation abroad seems a cleaner (meterophorically, not literally) solution to me. many clinics abroad accept single women, i know my clinic does and donor embryos or double donation takes the pressure off you timewise.

sorry if i've offended you in any way, was not my intention, its just a thought.

good luck whichever road you decide to take 

jade xxxx


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## flowerfaery (Apr 26, 2012)

I understand your feelings of urgency, but please don't rush into anything without considering the legal and medical aspects involved here.

You may be happy to not have any contact or pursue child support from this man, but you can't give away the legal rights of the unborn child.  If you do go down this route you would be well advised to seek legal advice and draw up a contract to protect all parties.  Any resulting child may want to know who their donor was and if they have any half siblings out there, the Donor Conception Network is a useful resource and it has stories from donor conceived adults talking about their experiences.

In terms of protecting your health and that of your unborn child have you both been screened for blood borne viruses and STDs?  NHS sexual health clinics will do this for free for you and it is absolutely confidential, you don't even have to have the information passed on to your GP.  Are you aware of his family medical history, are there any genetic conditions in his family?

The costs of fertility treatment can be daunting, especially as a single woman, but if you are suitable for IUI then that is significantly cheaper than IVF.  All clinics in the UK are regulated by the HFEA and if you go through a clinic with a donor then the donor has no legal rights over your child, but they can find out the details about their donor if they want to when they reach 18yrs.  Detailed medical information is gathered from the donors, backed up by blood tests and sperm is quarantined for 6 months and then the donor re-tested to be sure that the sample is clear from infections such as HIV.  

It is worth investigating if your commissioning area has any provision for single women at all, whilst I know of nowhere that funds fertility treatment for single people, you may get initial investigations or a referral to discuss your options.  There are no guarantees, but there is no harm in asking and as you have had a miscarriage (much sympathy btw) your GP may be sympathetic.

Please don't think I am judging you, I think we all understand on here how desperate the sense of time running out can make you feel, I am just concerned that you are coming out of a fairly traumatic relationship break-up and haven't given yourself time to process and to think through your next steps fully.  You'll get lots of information and advice on these boards so be kind to yourself and give yourself time to take everything in.

Good luck with your journey.
Flower


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## briz39 (May 19, 2013)

Hi

Thanks for the replies.  To answer each in turn - firstly I would prefer to have my own genetic child if possible.  It seems strange enough not to recognise elements of the father, but not to recognise anything at all is too much right now.  Let's see how it goes, as with IVF, it might be a different story.  I guess my own, decrepit eggs, might not be an option.

Secondly, it's not a rushed decision. My friend and I, and her chap, have been discussing it for ages.  I can easily get a contract drawn up. and we are both of the same mind so I'm not worried.  He has just had tests - I'll ask for a repeat to be done.  I need to be retested, I guess.  But I had them all done a couple of years ago and haven't slept with anyone else since.

How can he be the legal father if I don't know his name?  I genuinely don't.  And I don't want to.  It's as good as anonymous.  What's the difference between that and a one night stand with someone I have never met?  My friend and he have discussed it.  We need to make sure we never meet and I never know about him.  But we're all cool with that.  We don't live in the same town.

I don't know anything about IUI, I must be honest.  And no, no funding available for me where I live.  I've checked.  I count as totally single and not trying and that is not supported here.

I would prefer to go this route than to have the child find a man it doesn't know in the future.  I know that is not what other people choose, but I've thought about it a lot.  That's why it's this way, or abroad....

Thanks for your responses.  Gotta go to bed.  Early start tomorrow.

E


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## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

have you thought about how things would be if your friend then later also had a child by this man? how would that affect your friendship? how would you keep it from the children that they were siblings? would you just never see this friend again? what if your children and her children wanted a relationship with each other? unless they never meet how would you prevent that without telling them they share a dad? 

what if you have a child this way but your friend is later unable to have his child? how would she feel? what if she marries him? 

i'm not sure how you can avoid meeting this man if he stays in your house for three days.


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

most women who use a known donor is because they want their child to know something about the biological father, and in this country are contactable at 18 etc.

Have you had seen the man's HIV tests, has he had a sperm analysis - don't forget 1/3 of all infertility si du to sperm issues. Many men who offer to donate to friends would be refused by clinics as the sperm isn't good enough. have you had all the tests?

what will you tell the child about how they were conceived? and think about how they may feel


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## Heidi33 (Apr 2, 2013)

Have you thought about trying a known donor you can co-parent with? Then the child will know their father and you have the advantage of financial and practical support. I met a lovely man through a website that matches up people looking for partners to coparent with - I could tell you about a few different websites. For me it was the best of a number of options available to me as a single women and there's no expenses involved!

Good luck no matter what you do. It's a huge decision to make...


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## briz39 (May 19, 2013)

My friend has never wanted children and is quite a bit older than me. The guy doesn't want kids with her anyway. The only awkwardness is never being able to meet my friend's boyfriend. But, to be honest, longevity is not her greatest strength. I haven't seen the results of his tests, but will definitely check them. I don't want to co-parent with a stranger. I don't have any eligible male friends.

I would tell the child that it was so desperately wanted by me that I did everything I could. And that a very kind friend had a very kind friend who I know v little about, aside from his first name, who helped as he was a good man who understood my plight.

won't be staying at my home, by the way. They'll just visit.

again for your opinions and advice.

E


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## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

given the description of the situation using your home as a location seems risky since you will know nothing about this man but he will know a lot about you including your address, and anything else he finds out whilst in your house. if he later changes his mind he could turn up and cause trouble for you..
does he already have other children anywhere?


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## coweyes (Sep 4, 2008)

Hi there

Tbh im not sure that it wont be a bit confusing for a child.  If you have an unknown donor then then a child has no choice but to except that they dont know their dad (thats right isnt it?) but if you have a known donor then the child can know them.  In your case its a bit more personal than that, your child will know its your friends partner or that you at least made the arrangements via a friend.  I think quite naturally a child would be curious about their origins and about their father, its kind of uncomfortably in the middle.

Sorry i don't mean to be rude and i totally understand your need for a child, but there is just so much to consider. x


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## Violet66 (Dec 28, 2007)

My advice is to go straight to plan C. I really think this is a terrible idea. 

You said in your original post that you make bad decisions when it comes to men and I think this is another one of those. 

You are proposing having unprotected sex with a man you barely know (although I'm a bit confused about this because on the one hand you say you've been discussing it a long time, then you say you don't even know his name.) 

No matter how OK you all are with the plan now, things and feelings will change if you get pregnant.


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## staceysm (Nov 18, 2010)

Briz,

Please just think about it a bit longer.

You argued with your boyfriend 2/3 days ago and finished your relationship and a few days later have found a sperm donor?  If your friend has been with him a year, I would say that is a serious enough relationship.

Sorry, but huge alarm bells are ringing here for me.

Be very, very careful.  You don't know what this mans real intentions are.  You have both come to this arrangement very quickly, with not much thought.

I am only thinking of you.

X


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## jdm4tth3ws (May 20, 2012)

hi briz,
sorry if it feels like everyone is attacking you and your choices, i am sure its not meant that way.

i think i need to clarify on the donated embryo situation.

ok, the child wont be genetically yours, but, the clinics match the child's colouring, hair colour and eye colour as closely to the mother as possible.  and it is only an embryo (not meant harshly, maliciously).  the embryo needs a blood supply and a womb to develop. in that case, its your blood and your nutrients that supply the embryo with goodness and the way i look at it, the embryo's genes and yours intertwine. without you, the embryo would remain in a test tube, would develop and wouldnt become a gorgeous baby for you to love. so without you, it wouldnt become a baby and without the embryo, you wouldnt become a mum.

i am a recurrent miscarrier and have tests done and had major chats with my consultant.  the major issue he says is my age and my amh level.  2 yrs ago, it was 2.03 - god knows what it is now. he said my best option is donor eggs/embryos.  i did manage to get pregnant last year with my own eggs, which resulted in m/c 7 days later.  my consultant said this would happen.  because the amh is so low, the quality of my eggs is always going to be the reason for miscarrying. the consultant also stated that if i used donor eggs/embryos my chances of carrying successfully to full term went back up to that of every other 'young' woman.  statiscally that stands at 25%. if i use my own eggs, the chances of miscarriage are incresed to 75%. for me, its a no brainer.  

i think you need to be absolutely 100% of the route youre going to use, before you plough headlong into something that may or may not cause you heartache. with you coming on here and asking for guidance, i think you are not !00% sure of your next move.

incidentally, i have recently split with my husband after 12 years together, so i understand how you feel. fortunately though, i always planned to go to spain before we split and for me those plans havent changed.  cant wait for october  

i really do wish you well on your journey, which ever route you decide upon
good luck

jade xxxx


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## MandyPandy (May 10, 2010)

I'm afraid to say that I agree with everyone else.

I have very close links with the surrogacy network as that is the route I was heading down before I found out I was pg naturally myself.

A lot of the ladies use TS (e.g., the surrogate has home insems, i.e., using her own eggs and the sperm of the intended father).  This route takes out a lot of the cost involved in IUI and makes it a lot more personal.  It's essentially a similar route to the one you're considering.  However, before doing it, the surrogate will always obtain the full screening results of the intended father and they will talk through all the repercussions of the whole arrangement first, which can take months.

That is my main worry for you - that you haven't undertaken the necessary investigations into the 'donor'.  As much as you want the arrangement to be at arms' length, you are not taking the right steps to ensure that.

If it were me, I would definitely go through a clinic using your friend's partner as a 'known donor' - you don't have to know him but before it can all go ahead, the clinic will undertake all the right checks and tests on him.

In all honesty, if I were you, I would also get myself fully checked out first too in order to make sure that there are no major issues preventing the pregnancy.

I think everyone here can appreciate the longing for a child but please don't do it at the expense of both your health and the baby's health - not to mention the practical safety aspects that others have pointed out.  Given that you don't yet know what IUI is, it tells me that you haven't researched your options at all, never mind thoroughly.  It is definitely possible to do what you suggest but I would urge you with everything I have to go through the proper channels to do it.


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## briz39 (May 19, 2013)

Good point. But given that his main concern is that I'll want him to co-parent, I can't see him changing his mind. Plus, I'm planning to move if successful as my home is too small, even for a small new addition! 

We have been discussing this with my friend since February. It sounds rushed, but it isn't. The boyfriend situation just took some time to conclude, that's all.

I haven't thought of everything, so good to hear everyone's thoughts. I'm still of the mind that it's free and worth a go. I don't have any savings. So IVF = debt before I even begin with single motherhood. 

If I go through a clinic with this guy, his identity will be revealed. He doesn't want the child tracking him down in 18 years.

lost some stuff I've written so just catching up:

, I'm very worried about my old lady eggs. But it's worth a go. Although one more miscarriage means I'll have my three to prompt tests, I think. 

had transvaginal ultrasounds and FSH and other hormone level tests. That's all.

has kids, yes. His sperm works.  Much older.

only other thing i need to consider what to do about my friend knowing everything. If we stay friends, that's big pressure on her to keep a secret from my child.

I'm still thinking about that.

is obviously controversial! If I had £5k+ maybe I would feel the same. But, given that half my friends think I should have one night stands or hook up online and trick my dates, this feels positively wholesome!

for opinions. 

Jade, tell me more about Spain! Sympathy and excitement coming your way! 

E


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## ameliacooper (Aug 12, 2007)

To be honest this all sounds like a bad plan

All that secrecy just doesn't sound right.  And why is the guy so keen to remain anonymous?  I would definitely go via a clinic as the ladies suggest.  That way you can tell your child everything without having to hide facts.

I conceived via a known donor - but although he isn't in our lives now I know lots about him and have photos.  My DD is 5 now and asks questions.  I would hate to have to tell her that her donor went to such lengths to keep his id a secret.


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## briz39 (May 19, 2013)

He doesn't want to be anything other than an anonymous sperm donor. I don't see the difference as being as huge as you all clearly do. Donors were anonymous here for years and still are in other countries. 

I am the one who is super-concerned about his identity. I don't want to lie to potential child. So I don't want to know any more about him than I already do.  His name, a bit about his occupation and that he has no history of diseases in his family.

I don't have the money for a clinic. Although I've told myself that I'll do this twice before going to one. And then it will only be one shot as it would take me three years working full time to pay off the debt. If I have a child - even longer (if ever!). So it's not that easy.

I accept your opinions, but so far it just sounds as though most of you don't exactly LIKE the idea.

Rather than there being something.concrete to make it impossible.

you for writing.

E


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## MandyPandy (May 10, 2010)

I think people have given concrete reasons for why it's a bad idea but you don't like what's been said as it's not what you want to hear.

There are many reasons - STD's included, that you don't seem to want to acknowledge. 

Another concern is if you can't afford IUI through a clinic, which isn't particularly expensive, how can you afford a child?

It is possible to get anonymous sperm donors abroad which again, is not expensive but is through a clinic so all the necessary checks have been done. Have you considered that option? As I said previously, you seem to have done no research into this and have then become annoyed when women with plenty of experience and knowledge of  things have offered the advice that you asked for.  

It sounds like you're going to go ahead with your plan regardless of what anyone on here says so I'm not sure what it is you want?


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## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

we are concerned for your safety, that is all. there are several aspects of that, your physical immediate safety, long term health, security, etc. 
i'm not sure what you were expecting people to say. the subject raises a lot of questions for most people so they are bound to ask. such as, with a completely anonymous donor, if you had a problem with the child say they needed a kidney or a bone marrow transplant or something well you would know you couldn't ask, but if you know a little... how far would you go to track this person down if you thought they could save your child's life? 
nobody knows what is around the corner and without legal safeguards there are many risks. I do wish you good luck in getting to be a family. The benefit of these forums is to get lots of opinions and ideas and be able to make sure you have considered everything. be safe!


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## jdm4tth3ws (May 20, 2012)

Hi briz

what can i say about spain? 

i am going in october for another round of donated embryos.  i am fortunate.enough to have 3 OE boys,  but the itch is.there for.another child.  if im lucky i'll get a.bfp and if blessed it will be a.girl.  dont get me.wrong love my boys to bits, but a girl would be cherry on the cake. especially as i have a.very.rare condition that affects girls. with donated embryos the likelihood of her turning out like me is minimal. the cost is €2,800 or £1,600 approx. im taking youngest 2 and my mum in october half term. the clinic is spotlessly clean, hygiene rules.so much better than some of uk clinics.ive attended. protocols.are so much tighter in a.good way. and i trust the clinic. they.try to match blood type if possible. hair colouring, height eye colour, to the mother. also, a bonus for me they dont.offer compulsary counselling, to check you know.what youre doing. the.uk do as its.governed.by the hfea.  all donations are.anonymous, and you get even more basic details about the donor. eye colour and hair colour maybe height and age of the couple donating. that is your.lot. also no waiting lists. 
the way i look at it, if i get a bfp - fabulous. the minute those.embryos are inside there mine. and 2 if its.a.bfn - the kids.and i have had a.fabulous holiday. to me, its a win/win. 

good luck with your journey 

jade xxx


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## Jacobsmum (Feb 23, 2013)

Hi Briz

I can absolutely understand the desperate need to have a child, and the worry about time running out etc. I have a few more 'points to ponder' for you:

(i) you say he is older, and has kids. Well, on the one hand that is a 'proven donor', but how old are the kids? and how old is he? Clinics don't recruit male donors over 45 (some areas over 40), because age does affect their fertility too. He may have been able to have kids easily a few years ago, but now things might have moved on.
(ii) I can see you have been thinking about this for a while, and the whole 'not long since the relationship ended' is not a huge issue, if it has been in its death throes for a while. BUT it sounds from what you posted that he was a bit of a cheating ****. That is more of a worry, since some of the nasties he could have given you include clamydia (sorry, can't spell), which can have NO symptoms but significantly damage your tubes, ability to conceive etc (but is easily treatable).
(iii) I can also see that you don't want to know about the donor, so that you can be totally honest with any resulting child. That shows you want an honest an open relationship with them. It would be a pity if a friend who is clearly so supportive of this, and your choices, might need to be less of a support in your lives, if this works out, or compromise her honesty with the child.
(iv) IVF - v expensive, (£4k +) IUI - less so, especially if you have a donor who would be ok about going to the clinic with you (most I paid was £1400, but £650 was for sperm and 'pregnancy slot', so if your donor would be a direct donor this might not be an issue). IVF is more successful than IUI, but that doesn't mean you should write off IUI - it involves less drugs, no invasive procedures and you can try on repeat cycles. These are not your only options however, some women go abroad and some do home insemination with donor sperm from eg Denmark (there is a thread on the Donor Sperm board about this at the moment). I think there are legal issues with importing sperm for use other than in a clinic, but (a) people have been finding ways round this and (b) some women are finding that booking cheap flights (eg to Denmark) and getting sperm from a registered, regulated donor bank there is cheaper than IUI in UK clinics. If you have no fertility issues, this might be a possibility. It is also possible to have donors that comply with UK criteria on contact for child at 18.

I really hope you don't feel got at by people on here suggesting there are a few things to think about - and I can see you have thought through a whole lot of issues, and this is definitely a better plan than one night stands etc. (Yes, I also had 'friends' who made comments like that - anytime you spoke at greater length though, most acknowledged it was a terrible idea!)
I used a 'known donor' for home attempts a couple of times - with hindsight I can see it was because I was desperate - waiting between treatments, all self-funded, but still on NHS waiting lists... It didn't work, but I didn't realise he was taking medication (totally unrelated to fertility, so he didn't mention it) that would have significantly impaired his chances. I don't regret trying any of the things I did, but in reality I am glad it worked through different means.

Good luck with whatever you choose.
Best wishes
Jacob's mum


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## Tulipwishes (Nov 20, 2011)

I don't know a great deal about  sperm donation but I would also urge you to use caution with the original plan of using your friends boyfriend as the donor. I'm sure you have thought long and hard about it already but please think again about this.

If you did fall pregnant I think it would cause problems between you and your friend eventually, it's easy to say it wouldn't because there is no baby at the moment, but once a baby is born you don't know what emotions this could bring along with it. You also mentioned that you have never met your friends BF, so how have you communicated about him being a sperm donor? 

I really think you are better off going through the correct channels and using a clinic which use sperm donors or as someone else suggested go through a fertility clinic with your friends bf as your known donor, it is a much safer option. 

There is also a sub forum on here in the donation section that you might want to read through.

Good luck with whatever route you choose.


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## staceysm (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi,

What concerns me, is that he will have legal rights, as in visitation or access, because he is not an anonymous donor.  Not in the eyes of the law anyway.

He may be genuine now, but that can really change.  What if it works and you have an adorable little boy and he decides that he wants to play a part in his life?  There was a court case in the media a while back of a man who helped out a gay female couple.  He then decided years down the line that he wanted access to the child.  Low and behold a judge allowed him access.

I am sorry you feel like you are not getting the support you most probably want, but we are all woman who wanted/have babies, so are just trying to help you.

If you still want to go ahead then good luck, but perhaps speak to Natalie on the lawyer thread and she will give advice as to what legal rights he would have over potential children.

X


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## briz39 (May 19, 2013)

Okay, firstly, I'm not annoyed at all. Intrigued, yes. The feelings are so strong. That's why I'm listening and interested. So I'm not dismissing anything. I'm just not persuaded yet. 

certainly not ignoring STDs. So yes, that will be checked. Sorry, writing on phone isn't easy. 

can I be forced to name him as the father if I don't know his name? What about women who have had multiple partners or one night stands? I don't know him, it's no different IMHO.

The bone marrow etc point is a good one. I'll ask my friend what he thinks. You're right. It would be hard, should they stay together, to know I could access him, but not ask. I'll check that one out.

He won't know me, see me or any potential child. And I'll ensure we have both signed something saying we won't change our minds in any case. 

My friend hates kids! Seriously loathes them. So I don't see how it will affect our friendship, other than she'll be pleased for me. 

I was checked for STDS after BF cheated, thanks. So know I was clear, but have already said I'll check again.

re. Money, I can manage to bring up a child, but, like most single mums, would be stretched. I'm just stating a fact: starting out as a single mum with 5k+ debt is not great. If I can avoid it, I will.

I don't want to have a known father, which rules out using this guy via a clinic. So I would go abroad.

It's interesting to read about options, as this is plan c. That's why I came on here.

I am listening to you all. I am not annoyed. I am just not completely in agreement!

Thanks again.

E


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## Eggplant (Jun 16, 2013)

Allo, I can understand the desperation, when I found out my partner may not be able to have children all kinds of crazy ideas ran through my head and all seemed the perfect solution.

I think that donor sperm is a good idea you get to know all about genetic conditions and you have background to their character etc.  I knew a same sex couple that done this and they have two gorgeous boys.

it is an expensive process, but maybe it will work out cheaper in the long run, as people have said potential future court cases etc or other hassles including solicitors and being a man he may turn into a complete **** and you will have no end of aggravation, plus potential issues with your friend.

An anonymous donor abroad - less hassle, a holiday, no legal issues, on top of everything else babies cost the outlay ill be a drop in the ocean and the £5 k debt will be money well spent in the long run just to have peace of mind


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## MandyPandy (May 10, 2010)

I don't understand where the amount of £5k has come from? We're not talking about IVF but IUI which is a fraction of the cost. It is possible to do anonymous donor abroad for a LOT less - maybe contact some of the clinics to ask about their costs? Penny at Serum (in Athens) would be a great place to start. That way the donor would be truly anonymous and you wouldn't have to withhold information from your child (IMO purposely avoiding the truth is the same thing as lying - ignorance is no excuse). You also wouldn't have to worry about any legal ramifications or potential conflicts with friends. It would also cover all the necessary safety checks, medical history, family history, etc. (never mind having an actual choice of donor) - all things that MUST be taken into account when considering the best interests of the child.

In terms of all your other points, if you do want to go ahead with this known donor (as realistically that is what he is, no matter how hard you try to make it otherwise), it would probably be best to speak to a lawyer (as someone else has mentioned) rather than people on here?


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

You have had lots of good advice from the other posters. I would just like to implore you to think again about the feeling of any child you may have by going through this convoluted, unnecessary and frankly irresponsible route. Your child will be a real person with real feelings and I wonder how they will feel about this?

I would really recommend that you try and have some counselling before taking the plunge so you can explore these issues further. BICA http://www.bica.net/have a list of local fertility counsellors who could help. I would also really recommend posting on the Ask a Lawyer thread here which is answered by Natalie Gamble Associates. You may want to look at their website for the legal ramifications of your proposal.

http://www.nataliegambleassociates.com/

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=216.0

Finally, I would really recommend having a look at the Donor Conception Website and maybe joining to access support from other single women who may be in a similar position to you and who can offer lots of support and advice (as well of course as the single women on Fertility Friends).

You say 'I don't want to have a known father, which rules out using this guy via a clinic. So I would go abroad'. BUT it's not all about you it is in fact about your child. What if they want a known father and you have deliberately gone out of your way to deny that to them? These issues tend to come back to bite you and your child very hard later on, believe me I have seen this first-hand. I am a single mum to 6 year old donor embryo twins.

I do worry about your child. You seem set on a route that may potentially damage them and you and I really urge you to think again and take lots more advice before proceeding.

Daisy x

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


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## Violet66 (Dec 28, 2007)

Drawing up an agreement and signing it doesn't make it legally valid I'm afraid. 

There's no agreement in the world that will make it possible for the father of a child to legally abdicate his responsibilities or rights.


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## alexine (Jun 8, 2010)

I'm with daisyg 100%. 
One of the best things about this forum is that women with experience will tell you exactly what they think not necessarily what you want to hear....but with your best interests at heart. 
How you go about having your child will impact on them in the future. It needs to be thought through very carefully and not impulsively. 
Good luck
xxA


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## Heidi33 (Apr 2, 2013)

1 course of IUI at Storkk in Denmark with open donor sperm (ie the child can find our who their father is at age 1 is only ) £650! Less for anonymous donors. There is even the option of using imported donor sperm from sperm banks abroad to do home insemination which is only a few hundred pounds.

If you have no fertility problems there is no reason why you couldn't try either if these. Any of them would be much less emotionally damaging for your child.

Heidi xx


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## Amaretti (Apr 27, 2013)

I am considering using a known donor (ie not via a clinic) myself so have thought a lot about the issues involved. Legally I think he could request access rights and you could theoretically request child support payments from him. 
If you decide to stick to this plan then I think drawing up an agreement is important even though it is not legally binding. It puts into writing what each of you intend from the outset. 

I'm sure there are lots of examples of known sperm donor donations that work out well, we only hear about the ones that go wrong and end up in court. It is quite a big risk though, I suppose you have to consider different possible outcomes (e.g. Father requests access) and think how you would feel about it. Personally I don't really have an issue with my sperm donor requesting access if he ever wanted to. Although he is clear that he would only want access if the child requested it when they are older (ie 16/18 years).

I want to use a known donor because I want to meet them face to face. If you don't want to meet your donor then I think you are probably better off doing as others suggest and using a clinic.

The other thing that worries me about your situation is that this man is your friend's boyfriend. It's therefore likely that you will meet him again when you see your friend in the future. Is that not going to cause problems?


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## ociwoman (May 17, 2013)

I think you would be wise to seriously consider the risk that this older man could pass on a genetic defect to your child. Without blood testing and genetic testing of this sperm donor, you are rolling the dice with your child's health. 

You say that single parenting will be financially difficult. You are right. Are you able to support a child with a physical, learning or mental disability? The research is clear that the older a man is, the higher the risk that any child his has will be born with autism, for example. This is why older men are not permitted to donate sperm. 

Think about it. It's not just about STD's, but about giving birth to a healthy baby. 

Good luck in your journey.


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## briz39 (May 19, 2013)

I'll reply more another time. But... I think he's 40-43. Both kids healthy, no major illnesses in his family. I have had friends lose kids to genetic disorders so am well-aware of the risks. And, I'm old, so recognise disabilities etc. are a possibility, yes. 

But wouldn't all these risks have been unknown if I'd got pregnant by mistake by my BF or a stranger and decided to keep it?

Isn't that the same thing? Is that terribly irresponsible? 

By the way, I read a great article written by the child of an anonymous sperm donor. Was lovely...


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## MandyPandy (May 10, 2010)

You've answered your own question. You say '...if you'd got pregnant _by mistake_...'

In this case it would not be a mistake, it is an active choice. If it's a mistake you work with the limited options you're presented with. In your case, there is a wealth of information available so you can make a complete and informed choice.

While your friend's bf may have a track record, as others have already pointed out, things can change rapidly in relation to fertility. In addition to the usual screening tests, clinics (in the UK anyway - not sure about abroad) will also do karyotyping (chromosomal testing) and cystic fibrosis testing among other things, so you wouldn't just have to take his word about his medical and family history and the information would be up to date.

I assume that since you started this thread, you will have done loads of independent research into the alternative options people have suggested so you know that you're making the best decision for you and the child in full possession of all the facts and realistically that's all you can do.


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## flowerfaery (Apr 26, 2012)

Well you can't say you're short of advice 

Talking to a fertility counsellor might be a good idea as it would be someone very neutral with plenty of experience of all the legal, practical and emotional issues involved.  I had already done a lot of research when I went for implications counselling but I still found the session helpful as it let me talk things through out loud.  

Can I ask why you're so opposed to an open ID donor (i.e. legally identifiable when child is 18yrs)?  They have no legal rights, aren't involved in your life at all it just means that when your child grows up they can decide for themselves whether they want to know or not.  They may opt not to pursue it you are simply giving them the right to decide for themselves.

It is worth noting that the reason the law was changed to open ID donors in the UK was after a campaign from donor conceived children who grew up to be angry and hurt that they were denied the right to know who one of their genetic parents was.  You're right that some people aren't bothered but others feel it deeply and their lives are negatively affected by it.

Another issue to consider is the putative donor's existing children.  Do they know what he plans to do?  I assume not, but secrets have a way of coming out in families and they may be hurt to learn that they had a half-sibling who was kept a secret.  If you have internet access then with a bit of basic detective work it is not hard to track almost anyone down.  How would you feel if the half-siblings wanted to make contact with your child?

Sorry if this doesn't feel supportive, I suppose my personal view is that as a single woman I am blessed to live in an age where safe, well regulated and relatively affordable (although not cheap!) fertility treatment exists and it seems strange to deliberately circumvent all the protections and support mechanisms that exist.

bw
Flower


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## goldbunny (Mar 26, 2012)

another benefit of using a clinic is that it's no big deal to try again i it doesn't work, whereas with this 'secretive' donor plan, what happens if you get BFN.... how many attempts will he try? two? three? a year? two years? i can't imagine trying to maintain the high level of secrecy over many months of contact...what effect would this have on the three of you?


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## solomum (Apr 17, 2012)

Given that you seem very clear that you want an anonymous donor and not a co-parent, it seems bizarre to then create a situation in which the donor is not only known to your friend, but will actually have the legal right to claim a parenting role if he so wishes (what you put on the birth certificate is irrelevant). 

I really, really think you have not considered the dangerous emotional landscape you are creating for your child.  What if you have a child who really wants to know the identity of their donor.  You can't say - look, this is a sperm donor, I used a clinic, you can find out more when you turn 18/they're in Spain and I chose anonymous and there's nothing else you can do.  You will always know how to get in contact with the donor (through your friend).  You will have to choose to deny that information to your child - and in so doing you will be prioritising the donor over your child.  If you decide to  tell your child anyway you will be faced with a donor who simply doesn't want to know.  How is that going to make your child feel?  Rejected?  An object of shame?

And that's not even factoring in the nightmare situation you are creating with your friend.  Your child is presumably going to grow up knowing your friend and either 1) knowing that your friend knows it's biological father but isn't going to reveal the identity (intolerable burden on your friend) or 2) you are going to deliberately conceal this fact from your child and end up with a family built on secrecy and lies (an intolerable burden on your family)  (For more on the horrors of secrets and lies in a donor conception context read Lethal Secrets, available on Amazon). 

What if you and your friend fall out, and she starts telling other people about her ex, maybe only one or two, over a glass of wine in the pub?  Your child will grow up in a world in which their paternity is a rumour.  What if the man's children find out?  What if they want to have a relationship with your child?  His children haven't promised you anonymity - you can't control them.  This secret is going to out, and I cannot see it outing in a way that will be beneficial to your child. 

I really think that this is a terribly ill advised plan.  Please reconsider.


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## solomum (Apr 17, 2012)

Out of curiousity - why don't you want an 'open-ID' anonymous donor - ie a donor who is willing to release his identity to his offspring when they turn 18?  Such a donor would have zero influence on the way you raise your child - and would only become known to your child if they choose when they are an adult.  An open-ID donor respects the fact that a child may want to know more (and acknowledges the distress it can cause to those who want to know more but have been denied that choice - in this case explicitly denied that choice).  

I'm also curious to know why a man who is already a father would never want to have his identity known to an adult offspring. Often donors become MORE interested in providing information to their donor offspring when they become fathers (having a child makes them understand why this information might be important).  I would want to know what is motivating him to be your donor.  I'd also like to know if he is willing to donate through a clinic where he would remain anonymous to you and to your child - until a time when the child wants to learn more at 18 plus.  If he is refusing to do this (rather than simply unaware that it's a possibility) it makes me wonder if he has thought through his decision (and whether he has the best interests the offspring at heart).  

BTW: You mentioned above a lovely article you'd read by the offspring of an anonymous donor.  Putting aside that the situation you are contemplating is different (you are hoping to create an anonymous donor out of someone who is essentially known) I can, if you wish, and as a counter-balance, PM you unhappier articles by others in the same situation (and this is precisely why the UK law changed).  Most of these were conceived at a time when their parent had no other choice but anonymity.  You, however, do have a choice.


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## Passenger42 (Jan 27, 2010)

Hi

Please think long and hard about this plan before you go ahead. As a mother to a 3 week old baby from an absent ex partner who swore blind he wanted nothing to do with the baby, he was a donor and nothing more, I am now facing court threats for access, he can prove by DNA tests he is the father etc and is out to make my life hell.

You don't know this man, once that baby arrives he may want to see it. He may be telling you and your friend a load of lies to get his genetic child. You have no idea what type of character you are dealing with!

I regret not using ID release donor, that my son can contact at 18, now I have a life of hassle with my ex. Do not under estimate the fact once that baby arrives that man can take you to court to demand parental rights. He can prove he is the legal father. Is it really worth saving a few hundred quid on not using an approved donor? 

Pm me if you want a private chat.

Passenger x


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## alexine (Jun 8, 2010)

Passenger I just tried to PM you but your mailbox is full. I'm so sorry you are having to go through this with your ex.    
xxA


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## staceysm (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi Briz,

Whether a child has the right to know it's father, is for a different time I think.  There are single women on here who have used anonymous and known donors.

I just feel you are totally contradicting yourself.

A, You want an anonymous donor?  But you are you using your friends boyfriend of one year?

B, What is the difference between this and a one night stand?  With a one night stand, the man wouldn't normally know about a potential child.  This man will know about the child and will therefore legally have rights if he chooses to fight or wants them.

I would definitely look at IUI with an anonymous donor through the proper channels.  It may seem expensive at first, but it will be a lot less cheaper then legal costs further down the line if this man decides he wants to be a part of his child's life!

I wish you all the best, I really do.

X


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## HopeShines78 (Nov 23, 2011)

Hi Briz

I just had dinner w good pal tonight and explained what I am thinking re next steps for my baby - pros and cons of various situations - she just rolled her eyes and said I needed counselling.

And you know what. She is right.

This stuff is so complicated that it is really impossible to think about all the permutations. I think there is some great advice on here - and I hope you can find some cash for counselling to further help you.

I have looked at donor egg. And found the Donor Conception Network v helpful. Also, the counselling makes you think of all the things the child might feel - and it can be quite sobering and quite positive in equal measures!

If you go ahead with your plan to use your friend's partner's sperm, then when your child asks you about who their father is, you cannot say you went overseas and therefore it is anonymous - you will have to say it was a friend of a friend. If your child becomes curious - and bearing in mind they might - they will find out that in the UK they have the right to know their father's ID at 18 and make contact.

Further, anonymous donation is illegal here. I have no idea of the legal ramifications of undertaking what you propose - which is essentially against the law - but emotionally your child could be distraught by the situation and it could even lead to a breakdown in your relationship with each other. Further, your child has siblings that will be denied to him or her, which if the process was done legally - would be available.

It sounds lovely and cute to say 'you were so loved I did xyz' but when you have a teenager and they get disgruntled and possibly question why we have gone down the donor route - then the how much you were wanted does not sound so good. IIf you look at sites such as the US site - http://anonymousus.org/index.php - it is really sobering - clearly this is only one side of the coin and the DCN have amazing kids saying how they feel totallly comforatble with their donor heritage.

The decisions you and I make now will be with us and our children for life.

After reading Anonymous I knew I had to only consider known donation - that said - if anonymous was my only option then I think I would probably go for that too!

Nothing is black and white. The grey is the stuff we have to consider.

I wish you love and luck and hope you find your path to motherhood in the way that gives you the best start to motherhood, and the best start in life for your little ones .

xx

/links


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## pollita (Feb 23, 2011)

I don't have a whole lot to add to what others have said, but I just wanted to add my 2 cents. 

When I started trying to become pregnant, I ventured into every avenue possible to get a child - donors through Pride Angel/FSDW/PollenTree where the men wanted no contact, to home delivery from Cryos, to IUI and IVF using open and anon sperm from a bank. 

Honestly, at the start, when I had a donor lined up from Pride Angel, I thought it was great. I could afford private treatment, but I disliked having to pay so much money when hetero couples achieve it for free (mostly). On several attempts I backed out on the day of insemination, because I had a gut feeling about it that I hadn't had before. My desire to have a baby and get pregnant overpowered my rational thinking. The guy turned out to be a complete you-know-what and I am SO glad that I didn't go ahead with it and land myself in a sticky situation. None of what he said was true, and I can imagine him hunting me and the child down or worse, not being there for my child when they were 18 and wanted to trace him. 

So I moved on to sperm donors from a bank. The first month I went ahead with it I used an anon donor, and I was surprised with myself that I was happy that it was negative that month because it was only in hindsight that I realised I had made an awful mistake. The realisation of how important it was to not close that door for my child further down the line came to light. This month, my second attempt, I have used an open ID donor which I am much happier with. 

My point is not that you should choose anon or open, known donor or not. My point is that you need to seriously consider the implications your decision could have on your child. I can only try to get you to imagine how terrible and regretful I felt after my first insemination when I felt I had made a big mistake in choosing my donor. I don't want anyone to feel that way, and I wish I hadn't rushed myself into making the wrong choice. 

From reading your story, if it was me, I would feel happier not having a connection to that person whatsoever - your friend is an important link in the chain, and I would personally worry about him being so closely connected, rather than a donor who was advertising himself as a free donor through Pride Angel, for instance. I would wonder why someone would generously offer to be a sperm donor for someone he doesn't know. He has no idea what kind of person you are, and honestly, a good donor should be ensuring that the woman he is donating to is stable and ready for a child. As much as I want to donate my eggs, I wouldn't just hand them out - I'd want to make sure they were being given to the right people, the same as I ruled out sperm donors who weren't interested in getting to know me or know where their sperm was going. For all he knows he could be donating to someone who has no right having a child (I'm not by any means saying you don't!!)

Just think this through very carefully - please don't rush into something you may regret further down the line when it's too late, it does happen.


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## Barbaratje (Nov 14, 2012)

Have been following this discussion for a while now and kept truly out of it as it raises two very tricky points. 1. Is the way Bris is going about trying to get pregnant going to be harmful to her 2. Is the way she is going about going to be harmful to the child in the long run.

I could wax lirical on this all day and stil not have an answer  So my post is going to be about Anonymousus.org     as a warning to other ladies. I am sure the poster meant well but this site is nothing other than a political vehicle for Alana Newman , who is against all assited reproduction techniques. It is full of bitter and hateful stories, the majority of which are FAKE. (read then one about hw she became an egg donor for a family who adopted her and then kicked her put pf the house after using her eggs). Try to post a positive egg donation or sperm donation story and see what happens.

So, just a warning to all you ladies. Don't go to this site. Don't let this spiteful , politically motivated drivel ruin your day. (wrecked my month actually, but thankfully I took up cntact with the donor kids associated in belgium and got a proper perspective on things. Indeed , none are too happy about anonymous donation - but that does not mean they didn't want to be born. Just means they want to change the rules).

Ok rant over. Sorry but I really hate that site. It put me back months in this entire process, until I found out some background on her. Check also who sponsors the site and her opinions.

So for real info go to DCN or sibling registries or donor children organization. 

Cheers,
B

/links


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## Molly99 (Apr 16, 2012)

Good luck to you, I really hope that it works out.

My sister and her wife went through this exact same process with a husband of a friend.  There are lots of forums around with advice about how to sort everything out legally.

This is a fantastic and generous offer.  If everyone genuinely is cool and she's a great friend then go for it!  xx


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## flowerfaery (Apr 26, 2012)

Thanks for the warning B, I had a look at that site and it was rather worrying (already pregnant so not exactly a reversible decision now!).  I did feel that the people who were telling terrible lifestories about alcoholic step-parents and sexual abuse probably weren't representative of the situation for most donor conceived children.  I've used the DCN resources in the past and they do seem genuinely responsible and informative so I would recommend them to anyone trying to navigate their way through this process.

bw
Flower


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## ociwoman (May 17, 2013)

Can't help but wonder if this whole thread might have been started by Anonymous.org? Just a thought...


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## Barbaratje (Nov 14, 2012)

Haha ociwoman it certainly is the kind of story anonymous would love! Particularly if the dornor turned out to be a sex molestor, the poster had a sex change and turned her back on the child, leaving the best friend to pimp out the child to feed drug habit.  

No offence to anyone intended and certainly not to transsexuals or to you Bris, i'd still like to assume your post is genuine.


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## solomum (Apr 17, 2012)

I think that Alana and the stories on AnonymousUs do represent the views of some donor conceived offspring.  I know at least one story on there which is most certainly not made up (as in, I know the person who posted it).  The views are also similar to those expressed in blogs by many DC adults (and, of course, bearing in mind that people who feel compelled to write about their DC upbringing are also likely to have strong and possibly negative feelings about it).  I'm not sure it's helpful to simply dismiss the whole site even if it is weighted in one particular direction.  It is fair to say, however, that some DC people don't feel this way - just as some adopted people don't feel the need to trace their biological parents/feel genetic bewilderment as a result of their origins.  

In relation to the original poster: I think the point many of us are making is that it's important to 1) to make a choice with which you are comfortable (and it's hard to reconcile the posters wish for anonymity and complete parental independence with the fact that the donor wouldn't really be anonymous AND would have legal rights over the child) and 2) act in the best interests of the child (and this situation - with it's complicated emotional landscape - doesn't seem to offer that).


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## LondonKat (Feb 2, 2012)

I made the mistake to look at that horrible website... and it completely depressed me! Thank you Barbaratje for your input... I'm already in the mist of emotions and doubts about my treatment ( IUI via open donor 1 attempt 2 month ago with a BFN) and didnt need this........... 

Regarding the original post... 1 thought...The whole thing doesnt make any sense to me and seems like a recipe for disaster. sorry.


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## Barbaratje (Nov 14, 2012)

LondoNKat you really made me laugh with your last line. Wish I could put things so succinctly. Good luck with your next go   Briz are you still reading this? Sorry to have sidetracked, hope you found a way forward.


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## ociwoman (May 17, 2013)

So well put Solomum!


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## HopeShines78 (Nov 23, 2011)

Thanks for the info on Anonymous- will investigate further - I felt terrified when I read it and have not been able to get it out of my mind! When I spoke to my fertility doc - both here and in Oz they both said all the research suggests it seems preferable to use donor release donors - but I know for some this may not be their choice. I guess just good to have the pros and cons and POTENTIAL problems articulated up front to ensure that anyone going into donor options has the full picture. The poster (sorry name gone and am on different screen) who used anonymous sperm and then donor ID sperm - painted an important picture that I guess we have to think it all through. Life seems so unfair that we are on here having to do all this when there are so many ladies who just go out and get PG without any problems whatsoever! Wishing us all the love and success and wisdom to make optimal choice for us and our little people to be xx


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## briz39 (May 19, 2013)

Hi

Yes I am still here. But I drifted for a while as I was reading all of the posts discouraging me from anonymous donation and getting (admittedly) fed up with the suggestion that it's the wrong choice. It's *A* choice, surely? But that doesn't make it wrong. I have my own reasons for wanting that and don't think that I should be disuaded just because they don't fit with some people's idea of the perfect parental situation.

As the most recent posters have said, none of us want to be making these choices. It's a terrible situation to find yourself in. I am just trying to do what feels right for me.

One point which I have accepted is that the friend's boyfriend may be within reach (if they stay together) and I can't promise not to track him down in the unlikely event that my child needed something like bone marrow/a kidney. So that's worth considering.

In fact, I have considered that plus my own reasons to the point that I will probably go abroad for IVF or IUI with donor sperm. Probably. I have made enquiries. Let's see how expensive it really is!

I want this baby. Whatever choices I make are mine alone. I am thinking about things, I am not making decisions suddenly.

I thank you all for taking the time to write.

I wish everyone struggling with fertility issues the very best of luck, especially the single women like me with such limited options, time and money available. It's a scary decision, and a big battle.

Fingers crossed.

x


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