# All 13 mature eggs failed to fertilise? Why could this have happened?



## juicygem

Hi there,

I wonder if this has happened to anyone else. My DH and I have just done our first cycle of IVF. We have had all tests possible before hand ( lap, scans, HSG, FSH and semen analysis x 3 )and were told there was no physical reason why we can't get pregnant naturally.

We were advised to try IVF due to my age ( 34)  and the length of time we've been trying.

I responded very well to all meds, and produced 13 mature eggs that we collected last Friday. We have been told all along and after 3 x sperm analysis my DH's sperm is also good, in fact on Friday we were told that it was of excellent in quality. We were told we could expect a 50% to 60% fertilisation rate. But.... we we called on Saturday at 12.30 to be told that 0 % had fertilised.

The reason given was that the sperm did not stick to the egg. Why would this happen? Does if mean his sperm is abnormal or could it be eggs? Is there anything we can do to overcome this?  Can my husband take a supplement or vitamins? What questions should we ask at our follow-up app?

Obviously we devestated and have had a pretty crap weekend. Please help if you know anything about this. Thanks in advance


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## MAL.

Hello

First of all lots of       to you and DH  

This happened to me and DH a year ago this month. We were told no reason had been found for us not to be able to have a child, we went ahead with IVF quite optimistic. They got 25 eggs but the next day we were told none had fertilised, we were so upset but we now had a reason for us not being able to conceive for so long. We had our consultation and was told that we had high sperm binding but the sperm just could not break into the egg but my eggs were no too hard. Luckily hubby had spoke to the embryologist (he gave us more answers than the Dr) and he said that either the egg or sperm had a receptor missing that allowed the sperm to break into the egg, it is not something they come across alot so did not have a lot of info on it. We had a holiday and put our hopes into ICSI which they said should overcome the problem but nothing is 100%. We had tx number 2 in December last year they did ICSI and we got 10 embies which we were over the moon with, it was such a big milestone   I am now pg with our special little un and he is due next month  

It is a hard thing to get your head around      hopefully your follow up can give you some answers.

Take care xxx


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## anna the third

this is actually REALLY good news for you. you've found the problem and it CAN be fixed. they'll do ICSI next time and you'll be fine. it will just take an extra few months. don't worry. this is good trust me. (counterintuitively I know!)


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## juicygem

Thanks guys for the responses. It's reassuring to know that there is a potential solution to our fertility problems. Although I have been living in fantasy land for the past few months hoping that it might just happen naturally in the end.

It's going to take a little while to recover, but we're hoping to give IVF/ICSI a try. 

We have an appointment with a consultant at the Assisted conception unit tomorrow to discuss our case, I'm hoping they will let us try again very soon. Fingers crossed for us xx


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## MAL.

Good luck for tomorrow hun    

Our tx was on the NHS they asked us to wait 3 months until we could go again but looking back that 3 months was a god send even though I wanted to go again asap.

Will keep my fingers crossed for you xxx


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## Kizzy161

Hey there juicygem,

So sorry to hear about your zero fertilisation, the same happened to us on our first treatment, I was devastated, such a shock.

We've just had our second treatment which unfortunately resulted in a BFN, we did half IVF and half ICSI this time, none of the IVF eggs fertilised (again) and 4 out of 9 ICSI ones did.  On the one hand, it showed us that there was nothing wrong with the treatment per se in our first attempt (I was worried that I'd been left to coast too long) but on the other, it feels like half the eggs in my cycle were wasted and if we hadn't gone for half IVF, we might've had some embies in the freezer.  
I just thought that it might be useful for me to share our experience with you, in case you're offered the half and half option.  
Hope that the meeting tomorrow goes well, do let us know.

Best wishes,

Karen xx


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## juicygem

Hi Karen,

Thanks for your advice. We've been feeling a little sad that they didn't do half IVF and half ICSI on our first attempt. It seems such a shame to have wasted 13 lovely eggs.

But the clinic said on the phone that what we've experienced is incredibly rare and that they had no way of telling that fertilisation 
won't take place until it happens. 

This first go was paid for by my local PCT, but we will have to self fund any future attempts (bit worried on how far our savings will stretch) so we will be requesting ICSI on all/any eggs I produce in the future to at least give us a chance of getting some embryos.

Sorry you've not been successful so far, I wish you lots of luck for the future. BTW did they tell you why your eggs didn't fertilise? Was it that the sperm didn't stick to the eggs? ( They said on the phone today my DH's sperm was just swimming round the egg but nothing was attaching)

Noticed you're also in London, what clinic have you tried? 

All the best

Em x


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## Iman01

Hi,

I just read your post and just wanted to let you know the same thing happened to me in March.

We got 9 mature eggs and none fertilised. The embryologist had no answer as to why this happened and just said the sperm looked like it didn't know what to do and was just swimming around the egg. 

I've just had egg collection on my second cycle (ICSI this time) and got 9 eggs again of which 5 fertilised.

Don't give up hope-I know it's really hard as you go through all the treatment and then don't get to ET. After it happened to us it explained why we probably didn't conceive naturally if that makes sense? 

Good luck for the future and I'm sure ICSI will help next time.

Iman01x


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## juicygem

Hi Iman,

Thanks for your message. Sorry to hear you experienced the same disappointment as us. Our clinic have told us today to go for ICSI next time. 

Good luck with your current cycle.

All the best

Juicygem x


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## Kizzy161

Hi Juicygem,

How are you doing?

Our first cycle (NHS funded) was at Bart's, our second (self funded) was at the London Fertility Centre. 

We haven't had our follow up session with LFC yet, it's booked for somewhere near the end of the month, I want a bit of time to get my head clearer before we jump into that.  To be honest, Bart's couldn't tell us very much at all about why none fertilised, they said very little adhesion and that it was likely to be something to do with the eggs but it was so vague.
Bart's also told us that zero fertilisation was very rare but during treatment at LFC, they told us that about 8% of people get zero fertilisation with IVF and about 2% with ICSI, not rare enough in my opinion, and I think 'they' should better prepare people for this possibility.  I was completely unprepared and found it more upsetting than my recent second attempt (hopefully I'm not speaking too soon, 'cos it's very early daysyet, less than a week in fact).

Like you, I've also had to learn to let go of the fantasy of natural conception, that's a tough one and increases the pressure when you're having treatment.  

Where were you?  Are you staying at the same place?

Karen xx


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## ♥JJ1♥

So sorry to hear about your lack of fertilisation, have you had your follow up appt I would ask about ICSI or assisted hatching- where if the zona of the egg is hard for the sperm they pierce it a little
L x


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## juicygem

Hi Ladies, 

Thanks for the responses. I think we will be going for ICSI ( no one has mentioned assisted hatching) but I will ask.

Karen I've had my first attempt at Guys ACU at London Bridge. Prior to starting treatement they told my DH that he had enough sperm to impregnate half the western world. And after a lap they told me I was fine and that there was no reason why we couldn't conceive spontaniously. 

We made the decision to try IVF anyway as we knew deep down something must be wrong ( For 2 years I've been told constanly by well meaning friends and relatives to chill out, relax, don't think about it, don't drink, get drunk etc) and I've tried cutting out booze, caffine, has 3 months worth of accupunture, taken nasty chinese herbs ( that make you want to vomit).

What's the LFC like? I read they do a 3 cycle package..though that might be worth a go. But we might stay at Guys not sure yet.

Do you know how long you should leave ( timewise) between treatment?

Speak soon

Emma xx ( juicygem)


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## ~Sapphire~

Hi Juicygem,

So sorry that this happened to you.  I have only just seen this post but wanted to reply with our experience.  Our first IVF resulted in 23 eggs and even having read about the possibility of zero fertilisation I was stunned and devastated when we made the call and found out that none had fertilised.  I naively thought that zero fertilisation only occurred when there was very few eggs.  No one was really able to give an explanation for why it had happened and they said everything looked OK.  Anyway they advised we try ICSI next time.  That cycle we have 21 eggs, 20 mature of which 16 fertilised and we now have a lovely 3 year old from that cycle.  Hope things work out well for you.  If you have had your follow-up I hope that went well.

GTBAM - That is interesting about having a receptor missing - never heard that before just lots of don't know whys.  Nice to have a possible reason.  Glad it worked out for you in the end.

S x


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## MAL.

Hello Sapphire

My hubby managed to speak to the embryologist at Leeds and I think he is one of the best ones in his field so we were very lucky but he said that he had never come across a case like ours before and when I did a bit of research it was next to impossible to get the same kind of explanation, in fact I posted on FF and a kind FF lady managed to find some research on this receptor thing and it did make interesting reading   You know it was nice to be given a reason why it happened and I know that does not happen a lot. Congratulations on your 3 yr old   Thank goodness for ICSI!!!

Good luck on your next tx juicygem     

xxx


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## Karenphi

hi,

Just seen this post. This happened to me too. It was our 2nd ivf as the 1st was abandonned due to poor response. Anyway I had 6 eggs ( which I was over the moon with ) and I got the phone call saying zero fertilisation. I was devestated and couldn't understand it as we have a  3 year old who was concieved naturally. Anyway they left the eggs for another day and I got a phone call saying one egg had fertilised, unfrtunately due to the stress I got a bfn. I never really got a reason why this happened but I really believe it was caused by my dh's morphology which had dropped to 8% normal forms. I just couldn't understand why the clinic didn't come and tell us that the sa had changed and recommend icsi at the time. I think they were just rubbish.

Anyway we have subsequently changed clinics and I have had a cycle of icsi which unfortunatley ended with a bfn. But the good news was with icsi out of 6 mature eggs 4 fertilised and 2 were put back and one was frozen. So we are going to be cycling in a couple of months and really hope this next cycle will work for us. I feel quite relaxed about the net cycle as I now know that with icsi our eggs do fertilise and I still hope we will concieve naturally, although this is highly unlikely.

Really hope you get better results on your next cycle.

Take care,
Karen


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## Happiness07

Hi all,
I have just found out today that all 12 eggs failed to fertilise! It is my 4th IVF attempt and the first involving zero fertilisation. Have cried and now just feel numb. Why me , am I too old at 43 to try with my own eggs ? All the embryologist could tell me was that my eggs had a hard outer layer and that the sperm couldn't get in! I don't know why ICSI wasn't suggested or assisted hatching - but I guess hindsight is a wonderful thing. I'm at the Lister and have to wait until the 24th Sept for the next appointment so it's such a bummer. Just don't know what the next steps are. I can't get pregnant naturally since I have no tubes! Am considering natural IVF at Create before another hardcore medicated cycle to allow my body to recover and to at least put me in the mix. What do people think? Stunned, shocked and highly distressed X


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## Kizzy161

Hello everyone,

Have been away from the board for a few weeks, feeling sorry for myself (not all the time) and trying to give myself a bit of space to move on.

Happiness, So sorry to hear about your zero fertilisation, it's a huge shock, isn't it.  Perhaps more so when you've had successful fertilisation before.  I guess ICSI wasn't suggested because you had fertilisation without it on previous attempts.  Don't expect much of yourself over the next few days and do remember to take care of yourself, you still have to recover physically from EC and get all those chemicals out of your body.  

About assisted hatching, I had my follow up consultation at London Fertility Center yesterday after my second failed attempt (as you'll see below, we had half ICSI and half IVF and non of the IVFers fertilised) and asked about AH, the consultant told me that they don't do it at their clinic anymore because it hasn't been shown to increase success rates, I've no idea whether other places still do it.  

Emma, I'm not sure if LFC do a 3 cycle package, I've only ever seen them advertised for under 35s, so that counts me out.  I think LWC does a 3 cycle package though.  


The clinic couldn't identify a clear reason for our two zero fertilisations, they said that it could be either the eggs or sperm and had to acknowledger that my age may be a factor, but I can start again (for out third and I think final cycle) more or less as soon as we're ready, so I think it's going to be November.  Anyone else trying again around then?

Hope everyone is OK.

Karen xx


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## Happiness07

Hi Karen,
You're right about giving yourself time to heal and re group -thank God I didn't have work this week ! I'm back tomorrow since I'm a teacher! 

The zero fertilisation thing is weird isn't it and why don't the docs have more answers about it? Embryologist was saying the Zonae of the eggs do harden over time but that it's not always linked to age , she said it could have been a reaction to the drugs. It's all wierd. The Lister seem to be promoting assisted hatching , particularly where the zona is harder so that the embryo implants easier - it seemed to make sense logically but I have no idea about the success rates- it's interesting some places just don't support it!
The 3 cycle package at the Create is a natural ICSI one with no drugs - figured I need a rest from them for 3 months and it costs around £5,500 . If this doesn't work I intend to go for a full medicated ICSI at the Lister again in November so we would be cycling around the same time. It's all so exhausting just thinking about it ! 
Anyway take care and much love X


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## sam 2

Hi Karen , i have read your post sorry about your bfn hun and good luck with your fet hope thats the lucky one for you.
Which clinic was you at when you had your first treatment done?
And which clinic have you moved to?
We have had a icsi cycle in Jan 08 it didnt work for us this time we do plan to start treatment again in Jan 09 we are at care hospital in Manchester, i can say we was pleased with all our treatment we got but my worry is because we had to egg share so we could afford to have treatment and will egg share again in jan, but i am not sure how many times you are allowed to egg share as our consultant said we cant go on egg sharing forever which may end up in us having to change clinics after our second atempt, thats if the worse happens just hoping it will be our last try and it will work this time for us x
sam


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## juicygem

Hi Happiness,

I just read your post on my thread about a natural ICSI cycle without drugs. I've never heard of this before...how does it work?


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## nicky*30

Hi All
Sounds awful but I'm glad I'm not alone. We had tx in May. 9 eggs but had to do unplanned ICIS due to DH having slow sperm on day.This was all on NHS so very lucky. None of the eggs fertilised and we have been told it is due to the quality of my eggs. Stuck now as don't want to do it again till I feel have done every thing I can to improe eggs. Not that any one can tell me how or what I can do to improve them. If any of you have any ideas I am all ears.

Thanks
Nicky


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## Happiness07

Hi Juicygem,
Natural ISCI without drugs is available at the Create clinic in Wimbledon & Harley st. It basically involves monitoring the follicles and controlling ovulation and getting the eggs (normally much lower number like 1-2 since NO stims are given!) through EC as per usual and then having ICSI just like the medicated cycles.The success rates are lower but it is much less invasive. I however have now decided to wait until Nov 2008 and go for another medicated cycle again at the Lister since the one thing I do have going for me is that I respond well to the drugs and produce a good no of eggs for my ages so I want to capitalise on that.
Cheers
X


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## SleepyT

Hi Everyone.

You may have all moved away from this thread now but I've just found it and hoping you're all still there - particularly Juicygem.

In response firstly to lack of fertization - we have just finished our first tx. We got 21 eggs and the plan was IVF/ICSI split. But they called almost soon as I left the hospital and said that 11 eggs were immature and that they would prefer to do ICSI on all the remaining 10 eggs. We naturally agreed.
Well 8 of the 10 fertilized which is a high percentage. I'm fairly convinced that this is why we are not conceiving naturally, that DH and I are not compatible. My eggs are fine, his sperm is fine, but they don't jiggy jiggy too well on their own!
I'm not that well read to be honest, I'm a bit poo at research but I don't understand why all clinics don't just do ICSI? It has to be a better option for anyone, no?

Anyway - jucygem - I was also at ACU in Guys and wondered what your experience of the unit was? 
We are going to save up and try another cycle next year but I'm really not sure about going back there. 

Does anyone know if we did decide to go somewhere else, would Guys pass on our file or would we have to start all over again with a new clinic?


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## juicygem

Hi SleepyT

So sorry to hear about your BFN. I am glad however to hear that the eggs fertilised with ICSI ( my biggest fear is even with ICSI ours won't fertilise)

I have had a few concerns about Guys. I think they are bit disorganised and I didn't even see the same person twice. And they never offered us ICSI on the first attempt.

However, Guys close to my work so it convient and this time we are going to pay extra for the personalised care ( seeing Mr Khalaf) so it might go better?

You said 8 out of 10 fertilised. Did you not get the chance to freeze any of the embryos? How many made it to Blastocyst?

Hope you have better luck next time xxx

Just need to add that the opinions expressed on this thread are personal opinions and not ff opinions 
sorry boring i know but just have to say it


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## SleepyT

That was exactly my issue - never seeing the same person twice. I really expected more, there was nothing personal about any of it and after my BFP I began to bleed and that week was horrendous in terms of support and advice.
But anyway - these are just my opinions and I won't go on and on. I just don't want to go through that again, I want more next time as it will be our last tx. But I didn't realise you could pay extra and have better care (I rest my case!) so I'll look into that.

Yep 8 out of 10 fertilised. 5 were good quality on day 3 so they advised to wait. And 4 made it to Blastocyst, I had two put back as they weren't top quality and the remaining 2 weren't good enough to freeze. They have to be of highest quality and they weren't.
I think this is all to do with EC too early. I felt at the time it was a bit rushed and then 11 of the 21 were immature. I mentioned this at my follow up cons and he agreed to coast or reduce dosage for another day or two next time and the eggs may be better. (It's quality not quantity)
I also think maybe day 3 might have been better - they say our own incubators are better then the labs don't they? But anyway - so many possibilities. This is why it's a lottery I guess.

Wishing you lots of luck as well. Was that your first tx? xx


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## juicygem

Hi SleepyT,

Yes it was our first treatment. We obviously don't about embryo quality as we didn't get any!

But sorry things didn't work out better for you. I would advise you take a look at other clinic before you decide to go back to guys. I went there on a recomendation from a friend. She saw Mr Khalaf on the personal pathway ( that's what they call it) and she raved about how brilliant they were.

Then again she only produced 3 eggs and  had one 2 cell embryo put back and got a BFP!!

I'm not sure about all the Blastocyst stuff. Am going to discuss it fully when I go for my first scan.

We were NHS last time. But now need to pay. I'm picking up meds today and start down regging in just under 2 weeks so I can let you know how I get on if you like.

Where are you based? Do you work in London?


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## SleepyT

Hiya Juicygem

Yep we were funded last time too so we're paying for next one also. I live in NW2 and work in Harrow. I go by Jubilee line so it's not too bad.

Would love to hear how you get on if you don't mind. Can PM me if you prefer? I really hope it works for you this time sweet. Please God, doing ICSI will give you lovely embies this time and you'll have a selection to choose from  

On the Blastocyst front, they say you increase your chances to over 50% - it's still a fairly new option I think. If I read the info right, they haven't yet had many babies born from it yet as it's that new. But they have a high percentage of clinical pregnancies from Blastocyst transfer. So the stats look good. But def talk to them about it. I never got to do that as they rang me on day 3, just before I left, to say they'd like to push to day 5 - it was only after that I read about it so I felt I went into it blind. Have a chat about it.

I can't compain about it not working better for me - as far as tx went getting a BFP means implantation happened so the tx actually went well. It was the fact the embie(s) then came away which they've put down to bad fortune as luck would have it so it's difficult to know what to do - next time it may not even go so well for all we know so I do feel worried about another cycle but with the results I got, I have to be encouraged as I could be much worse off. But there's always more questins isn't there? (Have I been pg before and the same thing has happened. Is it immunity issues? Am I killing off healthy embies all the time? Ugh!! Why does it have to be so hard!!!)

Rambling.....sorry!....xx


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