# The things people say...need to have a rant!



## Iman

Please excuse me....I need to vent and I know those here will understand me and maybe have similar experiences and perhaps need to also let off steam or be able to lend support....

DS and DD came to live with us just over 4 months ago. A close member of the family, is (for want of a better word) I feel, attempting at times to undermine and sabotage our attachment with them. Whether intentionally or unintentionally I am not sure (perhaps it does not matter, the result is the same) they have said or done a few things of late which have really got my blood boiling!!    these include things such as holding DS in a cradle position (he is 2) and asking him " are you my baby??" over and over....other things such as cuddling him and asking him " do you want to come home with me?" and when he did not answer and looked clearly scared and confused, asking it again and again (4/5 times) pressing him for an answer until he did answer (said yes, looking clearly like he felt that it what he ought to say)....and then asking the same thing to DD also straight after! ....there's more but these remarks and actions stick most closely in my mind as potentially detrimental to their attachment with us and their feeling of security and understanding and my role as Mummy and DH's as Daddy. We have had to have conversation with DS after these events since he has shown signs that he was confused by it. We have had a hard time over previous months with their attachment (mainly due to FC and other issues) and really turning a corner of late....This person is not the only one to make offhand remarks which said to a non-adopted child would not have significance as much but for an adopted child (and newly adopted toddler) have huge meaning and could be put down to carelessness or naivety of the adopted child but have caused some concern...

I have now raised this with the person, calmly, and explained and requested they be careful of such behaviour. However because it is repeated actions and because of some other things, I feel like this behaviour is likely to be intentional and is a result of jealousy....(all eyes on us at the moment type of thing...)

ANYWAY....just needed to get off my chest and ask also if anyone has any similar experiences? How do you /have you handled them? Do you find friends and family who intentionally or unintentionally make comments or do things which are not suitable for an adopted child? (I should stress the majority of ours have been very supportive and listened and understood, but not all)  Do you find your friends and family understand when you speak to them about attachment and the kind of issues that need to be considered with an adopted child? Or do you feel everyone dismisses your concerns or points and puts it down to fussy parenting on your part? 

I dont know....Im just very very annoyed and wondering if its partly me being over-anxious and over-sensitive?? Its entirely possible... Has anyone had any similar experiences?

Thanks

Iman 
x


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## littlepigeon67

Hi Iman,

I didn't want to read your post and run...  

My DH and I started on the adoption route in France but then ended up having DEIVF instead and I am now very happily 13 weeks pregnant, so I don't really have much experience with regards adoption I'm afraid.  I just wanted to say that I don't think you are being over anxious or over sensitive at all. After reading your post I cannot believe why a close member of the family would behave in such an inappropriate and odd way! I think it was good that you broached the subject with this person. Is there anyone you could discuss it with from the adoption process team? 

I do hope that this person 'backs off' so that you can continue to enjoy bringing up your 2 children, without the hassle and stress of this imbeciles bizarre behaviour! Now I'm having a rant!!

I wish you all the best Iman,

LPxx


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## wynnster

Hi Iman

Sorry but i'm just gobsmacked by this immature person that is saying these things to your fragile children!  How utterly stupid of them, there is no excuse for that behaviour, only a complete idiot wouldn't know how unappropriate those comments are.  
Well done for raising it with them, my first thoughts are to totally avoid this person all together but as a close family member i'm not sure how possible that would be?
How about speaking to the children immediately something is said ('are you my baby', you immediately remove the child and say what a silly X, you're our baby and always will be'). 

I have not had other people saying things to ds but at 4 months in I wouldn't have let anyone else be cuddling him, maybe nanny but that would be it, and to anyone trying to get a kiss etc I would have said 'no maybe next time, we don't kiss strangers' I was met with quite a few odd looks but tbh sod em, my child is the most important person to me and at that point his attachement to us was a real focus.

Best of luck
Wynn 
xxx

Ps - Rant away


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## Iman

Thank you littlepigeon and wynnster.....this just assures me further that I am not crazy - this really is a big deal! I wondered if I was over reacting but the more I think about it, the more sure I am that I am not and that actually, this behaviour IS intentional. DH said so from the off-set but he doesnt like the person in question, never has.....but he is right I feel, perhaps he is a better judge of character than me (he's always right!!  not that would ever tell him that, lol) 

I'm STILL fuming, words cant express to be honest.....they know everything we have been through, i have had extensive conversations with them about attachment etc, but since our two came along, there has been remarks and comments that make me believe they are jealous of the attention and best wishes we have been receiving from other members of the family....and I know this person has openly admitted to being jealous of me in the past...bloomin family politics, i flippin hate them!!

anyway, i did speak to them and they apologised and acted as if it was an accident (hmmmm.....) but I have now made the decision to keep my distance, because whether this behaviour is intentional or unintentional, either way they cannot be trusted around my two LOs. 

(Wynster, we did do no cuddling, holding kisses etc for the first 3 months with everyone and its only recently in the last month that SW advised we could allow close family a cuddle, and this person is close family. perhaps I will once again say no cuddling etc.....)

Rant over....thanks for listening. Its nice to be able to come here and speak to other adoptive parents who understand the unique relationship between parent and child, and how fragile this is especially in the beginning....sometimes I feel like other parents who have not adopted, just think Im making a fuss over nothing (not all I should add, just some)


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## jitterbug

oh Imam you did so well to stay calm... I echo what Wynnster says. Just repeat back the 'correct' version and reassure YOUR baby!
We have relatives and friends that say we 'mollycoddle' our daughter and 'let her dictate' errrrrrrr no..... we need her to feel safe and secure and her needs have to come first 4 months into placement!!!!! Another (who REALLY should know better) said when I phoned for support after an afternoon from hell.... just slap her bum, it won't harm her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! needless to say this person is now off our support list!!! It's amazing how your support network changes once LO is here.
You are doing brilliantly and you are not over sensitive OR fussy unfortunately there are a lot of unthinking people around!
xxxxxxxxxxx


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## Old Timer

Words fail me, how bl**dy stupid can people be?    
Distancing from these people is the best action I feel and if you do see them don't let them pick the children up and remove the child the minute they do if they don't listen.
We were very clear with family and friends before DS came home and the only person I had to say anything to was my best friend who, as a mother and a childminder, thought she was helping by telling DS if he shouldn't be doing something or going OTT on praise.  She was fine though and hasn't done anything like it since and she has read up on attachement to see where I am coming from.
We are 2 months in and DD is now 16 months old.  She has so far only met people we are close to and will happily go to my parents now but they still haven't done any of the caring for her.  We are having to build this up over Christmas and into January though as we need to be able to leave her and DS for a very long day in January to meet with BPs.  it means she needs to be OK with my Mum changing her, feeding her and putting her to bed.  My parents were crb checked for the purpose of being our main support, I wouldn't leave DD with anyone else.  
People don't understand and it can be hard explaining why we have to parent in certain ways but at the end of the day, its the children that come first and if people don't like it, they can lump it!
OT x


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## Poppets Mammy

Oh My Word!! People are CRAZY  

Id of lost my temper mind, well done for staying calm. Im only just learning about parenting and attachments etc but my advise just echo's everybody else's. As soon as comments like that are made you must correct the person who's saying them in front of the LO. Sod the family politics, don't worry about making them look a fool, they are doing so themselves anyway for being so inconsiderate. I agree with wynnster, say something like 'your Mammy and Daddy's little boy/girl now aren't you? So there's no need for you to go home with anybody else. Your here to stay with us' and remove them from the person in question then when LO is out of ear shot back up your actions with something like 'see, this is exactly what I was talking about, comments like that are unacceptable and if you can't stop yourself from saying them (or respect and understand our wishes to not say them) then I'm sorry but you can't be around OUR LO at this crucial time'. Then kick them out your house. Harsh, but justified.

I know I'm like a month behind here, did things improve over Xmas??

By the way you've described my sister in law down to a tee, I'm expecting difficulties with her once we get a little on. But that's a whole other story, don't get me started!!


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## Iman

Hi FH

Well shoprt update is that things have got better as I had a second word with person in question. However things havent entirely improved in that there's still the odd thing they have said and done (not as major as above but still cause for concern) that makes me feel that they are trying to jump in my shoes or be disruptive in some way and can't respect the boundaries that we have stipulated. To another it might all seem harmless and innocent but my gut reaction is that its not, so I am keeping my distance as much as possible.


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## VEC

Iman glad to hear things are a bit improved.  Our son was conceived via the help of an egg donor so our circumstances are different, but my mil constantly calls him her baby and her son, and is always asking him if he wants o go home with her.  It has the effect of upsetting my son to the extent that he always is extra clingy with me during and just after her visits because he's scared of being taken away.  So no I don't think you're being over the top, as they are the remarks of thoughtless jealousy but which create problems even without adoption being in the mix.

Good luck putting this family member at a bit of a distance.


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## GERTIE179

I know this hasn't been posted in a while but it so sums up how I'm feeling at the moment. I have family (in laws mainly) really getting to me at present. LO has really came on since coming home but everything we were told about LO by SWs and FC is true and we can see it. However to family and SWs who don't know him they just accuse us if being over protective (not quite as blunt as that but definately hinting that its time we let go ie let LO go to relatives etc. they listened to us when we said wait til he's ready but the issue is that just cause he doesn't cry/kick off when they do try to lift/cuddle him they don't see the massive fall out - (he's not instigated any cuddles) we end up with major sleep upheaval & then this becomes a vicious cycle with us all being tired, then reoccurrence of distress behaviours and food control all return. It takes us a good few days of home/calm environment to get some normality back. To top it all we then get sick for a few days with whatever bug (I'm sure it's stress related). Initially OH didn't see LO being stressed or having an impact from these incidences but after the most recent one he can clearly see this and promised he would help with the constant waking in he night - he lasted 2 hours and ended up being me with very little sleep.

This has only happened a few times when I couldn't intervene (OH felt he couldn't disappoint them). i Sometimes just feel like running away with LO or locking ourselves off where we would be better off. Just wish they would back off and give us space as its still very early and they have years ahead of enjoying lo. we see these family members fairly regular and lo has got comfortable enough with them coming to the house etc but hesnjust not there with others touching or lifting him. Even some adopters that we know don't get why we are not thinking about nursery etc. or leaving him with grandparents for a few hours. LO is extremely anxious and without divulging background to family/others I fear this misunderstanding will get worse and really strain the relationship (us and family rather than with lo). 

Any words of wisdom in how to get family to see why they need to slow down (in other ways they are fab) or should I just get a better rhino skin?!?

Bit exasperated and very tired mummy x


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## Wyxie

We have this problem too.  Most of our family mean well, but don't get it.  They are now cooperating with what we're asking them to do and gradually coming to see that things aren't as straightforward as they initially thought.

They did really ignore my requests not to be too forward with Wyxling to start with, and because of how she would be in public, she would go along with cuddles etc, and go even more distant from us than normal, and we would have an utter nightmare afterwards.  It was so stressful seeing family, and we could see how badly things were wrong with Wyxling, but family just saw what they wanted to see - a gorgeous little girl doing her best to charm them, because her default position with new adults at that point was to control them - they couldn't or wouldn't see how incredibly stressed she was at these meetings as well.  Now fortunately it's not like that but I did get quite firm about certain things.  Relatives would just announce they were going to do things and leave me to say no which then made Wyxling say she wanted them to do things for her *sigh*.  To start with I tried to explain our reasoning to people and ask them to cooperate, but all that generally meant is that they thought they knew better and told us so, and did what they wanted.  In the end I just said she's my daughter, and this is how it is going to be - nicely, but firmly.  I fully intend to do that with my son as well.  I'm happy to give the reasons too, and I think with Wyxling people are starting to get it, but not entirely.  I know it's going to cause problems as all a couple of family members keep saying is "oh, it's a baby and the handover will be much easier so for all you know this one could settle fine" (when explaining why I would not be taking him on holiday with family 6 weeks after placement and taking advantage of them to babysit).  I don't like to upset people who've helped us a lot, but they're our kids and it's us who will make the decisions.  Just been talking to my husband about it today, and he was very much in agreement.

The only times we have left Wyxling to be looked after by someone else are when we've had to do things with Social Services.  We've left her a couple of times in the evening as well after she was asleep (we did tell her we were going out, but no-one else ever actually had to do anything for her, just had someone in the house).  I think you just have to stick to her guns.

We also haven't seen one of my husband's sisters since placement and I don't intend to have her round my children for a while, even though it makes things hard as it sometimes stops us seeing his parents.  She won't take any notice of what we say and I feel she would discuss inappropriate things in front of Wyxling, and/or constantly criticise us.  It's not entirely her fault, she does have some mental health issues, but I still don't want her round my very vulnerable child(ren) for some time.

I think you just have to stick to your guns.  Children come first, and the effects of doing things wrong in early placement can be long lasting.


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## GERTIE179

Thanks for responding wyxie. We had a good time re intros but still LO struggled with the move. No one really knows how bad things were through intros or the first few weeks. LO has adjusted but what wyxling does is the same as him. Lots of hellos to strangers and blowing kisses etc. we know he's only doing this to appease and we encourage him back to us but family just think he's being cute. I suppose I also don't like him getting distressed and know he only has meltdowns at home when he feels secure. Outside he holds it in and shuts down so family just think we don't know what we are doing. There's part if me that doesn't like to discuss his negative side as that may lead to more Qs that I can't answer without divulging. I get many Qs implying that FC didn't nurture properly that must be why he does that etc and it just infuriates me as FC did an excellent job and I gently correct.

Grrr just needed to vent with others than get it. Each LO is individual and has their own background so what suits one can really be opposite for another.

Thanks for bring an ear
X


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## wynnster

Gertie    It is hard when all family want to do is love your lo and tbh they are just being 'normal', its what we all want to do with any newborn isn't it?  'Oooo lets have a hold' only our lo's are bigger and of course come with their other issues too.  of course, unless you know adopted children, then you wouldn't know to treat them slightly different....... I found it so very hard with ds, he was a very friendly baby and would happily kiss anyone he met or wave at anyone and I used to think that he wouldn't care if I wasn't there    Horrible to think of my own thoughts and feelings, but, I am human.  That aside, you must keep lo's reasons to the front of your mind and (whether it annoys people or not) make sure you're with your baby 24/7, yes people can play with /talk to my lo but I make sure I am there too.  DS is a very happy, attached boy and although he is still a charmer it is a more normal behaviour than when he was small, ie he stays by my side and is shy appropriately but if he feels safe then he will speak to adults, in a shop for example. 
DD was also the same, wave to everyone when we're shopping, play peek-a-boo with a complete stranger and used to kind of dismiss me if I tried to divert her attention, like I annoyed her by being there.....  She doesn't do this anymore, she has been home almost 1 year.  With dd all friends and family knew what to expect as we'd been quite firm with ds, no-one picks up, comforts, gives food etc, but for this to happen, we needed to explain why.... So we just said that because we missed out on so much he/she has to learn that we are 'no 1' caregivers, so if anything did happen whilst I wasn't there, they can be told to 'oh you hurt your finger, go and find mummy for a hug' by friends and family.  
You don't have to go into 'why' your child needs this kind of 'funnelling parenting' but just that it is what you (as parents!!) are choosing to do, people will always think they know best and question your judgement, but if this happens refer them to their library service where they can find out more about it


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## thespouses

I think I've said this before but most of our family and friends have been very good about asking if it's OK to hold little boy, and not expecting to do things for him. Occasionally they have given us unwanted "advice". Hopefully if/when we adopt again we'll be able to be firm with them again.

Can I just say also that there seems to be this assumption both among parents with BC and those adopting children that it is the daily care that is really important in attaching to parents. It isn't just the daily care. It's play as well, though honestly for babies most things can be seen as care (keeping them happy and helping them to learn is care!) or as play (working out how to suck from a bottle or eat from a spoon, how to walk, how to behave in the bath, how to put your arms in a t-shirt all should be fun and are about development for a baby).

Little boy is now clearly firmly attached to us and to his nursery keyworker, and wary of other people, though some of them he knows and likes a bit better than others (we had a 2 month gap before the previous time he saw my mum, and he was very wary of her, then a 3 week gap I think, and I'm pretty sure he remembered her better that time), and he's generally better at nursery if his keyworker isn't in sight but he's in the familiar room.  Some of the people he remembers and likes rarely do any actual care for him - the other keyworkers at nursery will mainly just read a story or do finger painting with the kids not in their group, not change nappies, or my mum for example who does give him his toast but doesn't really change nappies or do baths. They are just fun people he likes.  And in some traditional societies Mum feeds the baby and sleeps with the baby while big siblings do everything else, including a lot of play, and the baby is attached to both Mum and the big siblings even though they don't do much care for the baby.


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## GERTIE179

Thx Wynnster - you hit the nail on the head everyone just wants to treat LO as normal as poss. On one hand I love them for welcoming him with open arms but little man is just sooo nervous and it comes out in very different behaviours. Still have anxiousness at a higher level but a calm ish week has helped. Funny thing is I think he feels them being pushy and its that that freaks him out. 

Thx thespouses - whilst we are funnelling for building the bond/attatchment, most of the concern is around LOs anxiety as this does differ him and does seem high for a little one so young (according to SWs) and its this that we can see all the time. 

No amount of prepping the family during this process ever feels enough. We're still early though so may be completely different in another few months. Visited an elderly family member this week and she was gushing about how much more relaxed he seemed (and this was true) so it's reaffirmed my slow n sure approach is working for him. He's still not keen on anyone getting too close to him and if someone steps over that line he retracts soo quickly that they can see its coming from him rather than just me. I'm lucky in that respect that's he's not overly social with strangers (although the supermarket seems to be a different anxiety issue).

Thanks again for the support.
X


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## thespouses

I slightly know what you mean on the anxiety - little boy is naturally slightly reserved, and we think this is good (plus it's his nature) and friends seem to think being shy or reserved is bad and try to push him to, for example, go and play rather than sit with me and check out the place first. I try and put a positive interpretation on it, so I say "he's just checking it's safe before heading off".


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