# Sticky  List of positives about living child- free



## katehe

So trying to come up with a list to help me move on and see the positives. Struggling a bit , so please help me come up with more.
So far -
Body and boobs will not be stretched!
Less stessful life
No worrying about 'will I make a good mum?'
No stress on marriage
Freedom to follow other dreams
People in worse positions - loss of a child
More disposable income
Lots of lie ins
No worrying about childcare
Truth is, if I won the lottery, I would still be trying treatment so not accepted it yet but do not want to be sad forever... Kate


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## Moretolife

- Child free holidays in beautiful resorts in lovely locations where adults only and can dine in the restaurants with no screaming babies or kids running round, laze by the pool or on the beach with no dive bombing or bored kids, do whatever activities (or none!) that are minus fractious fighting kids. Admittedly it costs money and although money seems to just disappear without having kids we must surely have more without having them!?? Never having to flick through brochures looking at dreaded kids club to keep them entertained.
- If fridge has got depleted and want to go for a meal last minute can do it without fuss and load of kids stuff. 
- Can see films go to the theatre have a day at a spa or meet up with friends without needing babysitters. 
- Can go shopping and wander round shops looking at what I want to look at and treating me without 'I'm bored can we go home yet'. 
- Don't have to endure temper tantrums where half hour laying on the floor screaming with other people looking at me knowing I have no control over the situation which will happen even with a well bought up child!
- When I'm tired or poorly (which is most days unfortunately) just putting my feet up and relaxing without feeling I have to supervise, cook dinners, make pack lunches etc etc. 
- Talk to my (childfree) friends for as long as we want without constant interruption or having to rush to pick them up from sitter/school whatever. 
- Have time to sit and read a magazine or book with a cuppa or glass of wine or take long bath in peace without feeling guilty that I'm neglecting anyone. 
- Can go for a massage or facial as time for me and as my health is important without thinking it be better spent on kids toys, school uniforms and relying on my parents to babysit, I just make the appointment, pick up my keys and walk out the door! Knowing I'm not being selfish as there is only me, my husband and our two cats to think about. 
- Can spend time thinking about what I want to do, how I am instead of others needs always coming first, I guess not feeling constantly responsible for someone elses safety, welfare, education so on.
- Can take a walk in the countryside with my husband and enjoy a pub lunch and be relaxed as not entertaining the kids.
- Lie ins and quiet mornings which are essential for me.
- Having a clean tidy house that looks good and isn't full of toys, scribbles, apple juice over the sofa etc! (Although my pets go some way in keeping it looking lived in!!)
- My career plans are seriously affected by my health and have been for some time (have M.E) but as I improve (which I live in hope for) and return to working my choice of career and hours will be about whats right for me and not directed around expensive childcare.
- The IVF caused my serious relapse of M.E but I won't have to put my body through anymore trauma like pregnancy and labour (thats a bit of an ironic one in my case)
- Can enjoy the peace and quiet when I want it and watch what I want on the telly with my two puds (cats) curled up with me.
- Can use my time and energy in meeting new people, making new friends and going places that are fun or of interest as I'm not consumed by running kids around to hobbies, clubs, friends house and dropping everything at school pick up times and don't have to socialise with other parents all the time with all the kids running around screeching. 
- Been able to take on big projects like major house renovation as only us to think about.
- Husband and I can enjoy adult only spa weekends away (once we have saved as been doing the above!!)
- I have more time available for other people, to listen to a friend who needs a listening ear, to visit and actually sit and chat with my parents, to take my elderly nan to lunch or the garden centre as I'm not distracted by my kids. In time (again as my health improves) I can volunteer to do something meaningful and have time and energy available as its not all taken up by kids, home and work. 
- I can protect my poor health better as not exposed to every virus and germ that is the germ factory of nurseries and schools!!
- I have observed that as a general rule people without kids definetely look younger.. various theories about that but maybe as have more time to look after ourselves and while we're equally exposed to life's stresses its not the same daily strain of looking after children 24/7.
- Spontaneity as can just decide to go off and do something (assuming of course there aren't other limiting factors) but there is a definite freedom. 
- If you've had a late night or heaven forbid too much to drink you're not woken at crack of dawn by kids bouncing on your head ;-)
- Whilst mortgages/rent, general bills for living mean those of us without kids often don't feel like we have an abundance of cash (and have often spent a fortune on IVF ironically!) we must have more disposable income as not having the cost of bringing up another person(s) that will cost a fortune for years so have greater financial freedom even if doesn't always feel like that.
- You can have unconditional love from animals without needing 24/7 care and appreciate them much more (obviously only works for animal lovers!) 
- My sleep is terrible because of the M.E but for most people without kids, good quality sleep is a huge bonus as you rarely sleep well again with children, always half listening out for them. I hope to have that back again in time where can go into a deep undisturbed relaxed sleep. (Maybe part of the looking younger!?)
- Don't have to tolerate people you can't stand as they are people you see at school gates everyday or are the parents of your kids friends so feel have to go along to the kids' party! There are often instances have to put up with people you don't like such as at work but on the whole you're more free to spend time with people actually want to rather than because you're immersed in this child-centered world. 

Thats the main things I can come up with at the moment  I have experienced that when you're in the raw, 'I can't believe this is happening' state that these many amazing things feel hollow as you end up comparing them to all the things you wanted to experience through having children. But as time goes on and you work on your emotions and building a new childfree life you stop making so many comparisons and start to appreciate these things you have and they take on a new significance. Maybe thats not the case for everyone, we're all different after all, but hopefully most of us while having wanted children desperately and gone through hell to try and have them, will reach a stage in time where we appreciate this other side to life and stop seeing it as a second best option that you have to learn to live with. Wanting a child so much does tend to make you blind to these amazing positives or see them as empty and without meaning.

I think its only natural and understandable to have the contradictory emotions of appreciating and enjoying all these things and being glad to have them whilst having moments of loss and sadness. I believe strongly the trick is to teach yourself not to make these comparisons, especially when in a sad moment, between these positives and the ones of having kids. It isn't fair to try measuring up your personal freedom to do these things with a hug from your child or watching them unwrap xmas presents for example, which is what we have all done many many times. You can do it the other way of course and picture the time you've had a fantastically fun day out with loads of laughter where you felt young, carefree and light and look over at a harressed parent with kids acting like brats and think thank god. The trouble with this thinking is it can flick the other way too easily where you're sitting alone in a cafe and you see a group of mums happily chatting with their kids looking like sweet little angels on their laps and feel a strong pang of regret. 

I have spent the last three years teaching myself not to compare in this way (and am still practising!!!) to avoid getting caught in that the grass is greener trap. And as a result while I still have my sad moments, which I've learnt to expect as horrible as it can feel, I can say now that I do really believe in and appreciate the long list I've written here. It was actually 3 years on Tuesday since our little ceremony my husband and I had to mark our last IVF cycle and end of trying for a baby (which was incidentally the first anniversary of our early miscarriage) so I've been giving this a lot of thought this week, hence my war and peace post here today!!!  

I don't claim by any beens to have it sussed or have all the answers, that would be laughable, but I do wholeheatedly believe there is a very good life to be had without children with many things to enjoy as long as we learn to appreciate them and not constantly berate them by comparing them to the life we thought we would have. I can still well up in a raw moment when I try and understand why that life was denied to me but for the most part I am enjoying having my life back (even with the M.E) and am seeing for myself that the more I invest in these positives the more I get back. If I had had kids I would have experienced anger, disappointment, sadness, loss, frustration, boredom, elation, happiness, contentment and many other emotions and by not having kids I will experience them all too as its part of being alive. It helps me to remind myself of that, life wouldn't be all plain sailing and stress free if I had them in the same way it isn't just because I don't have them. It is just life and I am trying to learn how to stop questioning it so much. 

Hope thats a little bit helpful Kate, even if a much longer response than you anticipated ;-) Its good for me to have it written so that in a low mood or when going through a bad time I can re-read it and remind myself it was perfectly possible to become happy with the cards I've been dealt so I will again when whatever it is passes! 

Moretolife x


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## Rowan22

Moretolife, what a brilliant post!   
We haven't quite given up yet (we're exploring the surrogacy option) but after an afternoon spent having to listen to my neighbour's little boy playing with his cousin, as he screamed, shouted, screeched, yelled and occasionally cried, while trying to work, I'm beginning to think you might have some valid points on that list!
Adults only holidays are a bit rare, though, I find, especially if you want to go camping. The last time we went the campsite was full of toddlers and it was purgatory. 
Hope the ME improves for you soon. 

Rxxx


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## katehe

Thank you more to life - you are inspirational. Quick question - hoe did you make child free friends ? Unfortunately , all my friends are pregnant / ttc / workaholics i'm worried about growing more and more isolated (and I am really sociable )  as I am consciously choosing not to be around thm to see what I am missing ?
Good luck with your health x


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## Libran

More To Life, what a completely brilliant post.  You are truly inspirational.  I agree with everything that you say.  I myself frequently fall into the trap of thinking "the grass is greener".  I often compare what I perceive in my head to be my meaningless existence with what I perceive to be the completely meaningful existence of those with kids.  I wish I could teach myself not to draw these comparisons in my head.  HOW DO YOU DO IT ?!!!
Really hope the ME improves soon.
Rowan, hope you are well - have been thinking of you often.
Katehe - I totally agree with you about making child free friends.  It's all very well and good saying we have loads of time on our hands to meet up with our friends, but if our friends have children of their own, then, obviously it is difficult for THEM to spare time to meet up with us.  I live in a fairly isolated rural village, and I believe that, for me personally, this has been quite a sticking point in hindering my recovery.  I too consciously "avoid" certain friends who I know are totally immersed in their kids, and this isolation is upsetting, difficult, and, I suspect, not entirely healthy.  I'm not sure what the answer is apart from to develop an alternative network of child free friends.  Easier said than done, of course !
Take care all XX


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## elli78

more to life i'm tempted to print your post and read it when i'm feeling down. its so true and i'm going to adopt a new attitude of being positive about the wonderful things that i already have in my life, 
wish you well xx


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## Nordickat

I think one of the best things about being childfree is spontaneity. 

Imagine asking your DH if he fancied going for a walk in the sun, then having to negotiate with the kids who would rather stay home, then having to mobilise said kids and get them changed into the right gear, get their snacks packed, explain that taking favourite teddy is not an option blah blah blah. By the time you are all actually ready to leave the house you are too tried to take the walk and its raining by now anyway   

I love being able to live our lives in he moment. 'Shall we go out for dinner?' 'Fancy a movie tonight?' 'Lets take a quick walk before the sun goes down'. Maybe I'm just selfish now but I can't imagine having to plan our lives like a military operation any more.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in the very early stages of 'moving on' and it still hurts like crazy on a daily basis. But I do know in my heart that one day life will be good.

I'm also quite isolated these days due to having to walk away from many people (and also being an expat abroad) but you could google 'More to Life' if you haven't found them already. The forum is very quiet but I think they are quite active socially. I have also built up a little network of friends on here who are still childfree (although I hope that changes for them one day) and we are all in different countries. I just had a great spontaneous weekend here with a FF friend from Germany and having a toddler in tow would have ruined it completely. We are already planning our next weekend meet to drink wine and eat good food and not have to feel guilty about it   . New friends turn up in the strangest places. I have a new friend from a 4 week stay in hospital this year, obviously I don't recommend that route lol, but friends are out there. For some reason I think pottery classes would be a good way to make new friends. I'm sure its a luxury that mums can't afford but that interesting people try. I'm too sick to try it now but its my plan when I'm well enough. In fact, I reckon anything that is a bit arty might be a good thing to try - therapeutic and cleansing, and at the same time exclusively for those with time. The problem I have is that I have no artistic talent at all  

There is more to life (great name   ), and there are worse things than being childfree.

We'll all get there eventually,  Katxxx


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## NickyRich

when I am walking around the supermarket and hear a toddler throwing an absolute tantrum-I do have a little sign of relief!
more money/time to spend on my numerous hobbies!
uninterupted sleep!  
no reason to watch thoroughly annoying children's telly!
as a teacher, I get to spend all day being with children and I can send them home when they are at their grumpiest!!


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## Moretolife

Hi everyone, I am glad if my (little   ) post was helpful and struck a cord. I think we all have well earned knowledge and experience that we have to share and this is a fantastic place to do that. 

In answer to some of the questions - not that for a minute I'm presenting myself as an authority in anyway  that would be comical - but I strongly believe we all have a few pearls of wisdom to share that might be helpful to someone.. 

Rowan - hi, I've seen quite a few of your posts and know that you too struggle with major health problems which is of course a major hindrance in moving forward so I can empathise. With regards to the adult only holidays it does usually mean opting for a more costly resort or location but we’re not paying for kids so more to spend on ourselves!  I've not been camping since I was a child but just googling adult only campsites bought up a few interesting options for example Hole station adult only campsite in Devon which looks lovely place set in woodland with no kids allowed   

Kate and Libran - completely understand where you're coming from about feeling isolated and how to make new friends without children.  When we ended having treatment and decided to make a life just the two of us I knew that the most important thing to help me (other than doing everything I could to improve my health) was to build a new social life and support network. I was somebody who couldn't be around pg women, babies and families in general so I knew I had to put in a serious amount of time and effort to find what I needed. Its got easier to see my nephews now and I feel thats because I gave myself time to heal rather than pushing myself to do child oriented stuff no matter how much it hurt. I still only enter into situations if I feel fairly comfortable doing it. I know this doesn’t work for everyone as they wouldn’t want to damage the relationships they have, we all have to find what works best for us.

I think the problem is when you don’t have a social circle that allows you to enjoy the many positives of living childfree and when you have too much time around people presenting the happy family ideal  that kicks in those grass is always greener comparisons (of course we’re only seeing the projected outside picture not the messy inside warts and all and that too is important to remember!) Its why I knew having new friends who didn’t have children for whatever reason was so important. People who don’t talk endlessly about the joys and problems of having children, people who have the time and commitment to want to meet up, phone, go enjoy experiences with you and have the time, energy and interest to invest as they are not consumed by their family. I no longer blame people with young children for this, I now accept it as part and parcel and I can see why they find it easier to spend time with other parents, in the same way I find it easier and more enjoyable to spend time with others without kids. Then if I do spend an occasional few hours with families or kids it is only a tiny part of my life rather than me feeling only a tiny part of their life - if you get what I'm saying!

That is all well and good though as long as you can find a new social group or you end up feeling lonely and disconnected which makes you think about how different it would have all been if you could have had children!!  Firstly I joined More to Life (which is where I nicked the name as its such an inspirational group) as Kat was saying. Unfortunately for some reason the group has gone very very quiet both on the forum and with the meetups in my area but it takes members to breath new life into it. I went along to the meetups and made sure I followed up with emails to those I felt I got on with or was interested in. Here its like dating again, you weigh up who you think you like and would want to get to know and risk the rejection of getting in touch   There is going to be a meetup in London in next couple months – dinner in Clapham – for anyone interested in the area or who can travel. 

The other thing I did was join meetup.com and there are specific childfree groups - some catering for those more childfree by choice such as Childfree UK but still gets you people with a similiar lifestyle in that sense and the fab group I'm very much a part of called Women Without Children Rock, which is a nice mix of those childless by circumstance and those who are happy to be childfree. I have met some lovely women through this and the get togethers are fab. These are London based though so is a hitch for anyone who can't travel into town of course    The massive rise in popularity of meetup throughout the country though with such diverse groups show how many want to make new friends and go out and do stuff- its certainly not just us without kids - and is a good way of meeting people, many of whom will be without children or partners or maybe have older kids and don't build their entire lives around them.  I guess like anything its trial and error, I did wonder for a while if I was going to end up feeling like norma-no-mates but with perseverence, imagination and developing a slightly tougher skin it is possible.  I imagine its a tougher thing to do practically if you live somewhere remote, I will try and brainstorm some ideas, if my poor M.E addled brain can manage it!

Libran – hi, it is a minefield of how not to make those comparisons and get caught in that negative thinking isn’t it :-/  I am sure all of us have managed it more times than we’ve noticed or given ourselves credit for so I am sure it is something we can support each other in learning to do more! The counselling and reading I’ve done has set me on the mindfulness path which takes practice, practice and more practise and certainly isn’t easy as it takes weeks to get use to and minutes to forget to do! But it does really work. Without a doubt its when I let my thinking snowball about feelings about the past and thoughts of the future that I start making really depressing and unhelpful comparisons. So simply being able to notice when I’m starting to do that and literally say to myself ‘there you go again’ and bring my thinking away from it helps. My brain can be very stubborn though and if several things have happened I find that much harder so that’s where I try and use distraction strategies until that churning feeling in my stomach lifts and the intensity has ebbed. I’ve noticed that when I’m feeling my lightest and most content, even if things aren’t great, its when I’m most engaged with whats going on right now, which is of course mindfulness in action. 

This really helps with having such a chronic debilitating illness as well - its certainly not just infertility that gets us - when I have my moments of look at what everyone else is doing and look at what I can't do and may never be well enough to do and - you get the idea - it helps to absorb myself with something small until the thought has passed or got smaller rather than letting it run away with itself, as it can easily become - its all because of the IVF anyway that I'm so ill, and why did we have to go through all that and why do others get all they want, look at so and so they have it all and so on. This is such destructive thinking and is taking work to be aware of it, challenge it and let go off it rather than seeing it as something I'm helpless to go through. I had CBT at my M.E clinic earlier this year and I'm only at the beginning in breaking these thoughts down and replacing them with new more helpful thoughts and beliefs. And when I really do feel it strongly its about being kind to myself and telling myself its only natural to feel that way at times and it will pass like it always has eventually and doing things that are in the words of the counsellor 'self soothing'. We tend to forget this when we most need it so worth having reminders around. 

If I haven’t killed off this thread with my war and peace postings and people are still reading  I am sure there are a lot of helpful stuff we can share, that is much easier to hear from others in the same situation. I find the ‘positive thinking whatever the situation brigade’ very hard going, while I totally agree it helps to look at the positives you have in your life, I think strained positivity that you feel obliged to do whatever you’re feeling is actually harmful as it doesn’t allow you to acknowledge and express how you really are feeling and without that how are you ever able to process what's going on?! 

I’ve seen the really supportive thread thats going on here and think its fab, I will join in but I find it hard to keep up with (brain doesn’t always want to play ball!) and agree with many of the things said. One of best things we can ever do for ourselves – which I am trying to practice every day – is being our own best friend. The amount of things that people say about themselves and then tell someone else feeling the same thing how wrong they are to think that proves how easy it is to do. We can see how crazy it is when someone else is cruel to themselves but not when we do it! Like everything this takes reinforcement. One thing I was always good at was protecting myself around pg's, and families. The amount of times I said to friends in same situation be kind to yourself, don't hurt yourself by expecting too much of yourself, just do what feels right for you and it will work itself out and I actually followed by own advice. Now if I can do it with that I must be able to do it about other things!!!  

I'm sure others have some great advice or wisdom that they can share. I feel I've moved on a lot now, I haven't got total acceptance of the past, I still struggle to deal with what we've had to go through and the consequences its bought and I still have fears about the future but I can honestly say (and believe myself!) that there is a great life to be had without children and like I said in my original post many positives. The things that made the biggest difference to how I feel, other than time, was making new friends and finding support in others without kids and having them to go enjoy things with, counselling so I had a safe place to express all what I felt/feel, homeopathy to help towards finding that emotional balance (but I am a homeopath so strongly believe that   ) accepting it would take time to heal and that there will always be triggers or bad moments that set me off again but paying attention to the times I am simply content as I am and happy even though life isn't the hand I wanted dealt, so along with that is the mindfulness and working on not pooping on my own parade by dismissing the good stuff that is there - thats part of whats taken time and practice to develop a new mindset. And seeing it as natural as I'm only human when I have bad days and want to cry and howl that it isn't fair. 

I'd love to hear other's thoughts and experiences of what's getting them through and whats bringing back the lightheartedness and excitement for life even if its only occasionally. The fact its possible despite such trauma is what's encouraging. You'll be pleased to know I've exhausted most of my thoughts so next post will be considerably shorter I promise


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## katehe

Lovely post 'more to life' and so much resonated with me - the need to be kind on myself when considering meeting up with friends with kids and the need to find a new social network. Thanks for your post - given me some stuff to think about
Kate


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## Flow13

What a great post. 
I sat nodding my head all the while I was reading this. 
I am a stepmom (3 teens come at weekends) and quite often I will lock myself in the bathroom for 10 minutes to have my own company and breathe. I would love children (thats why we are all on this forum), but Sunday evenings our house sighs with relief.  I enjoy my own company, just relaxing with a book or listening to some music.  
We have just started to do a lot of work to the house.  With young children around, and the work we have had done so far, it would have been a nightmare. 
I think a lot of the time the need for children can be so overwhelming, and the emotions that take over when it hits us that we can't have any are so strong.  We forget that there are other things in life that will make us smile, make us feel complete, and are worthwhile. 
Both my husband and I do a lot of things in the evening after work (we volunteer for a youth group, I go to a slimming group, he plays darts, we are on a local committee).  A lot of these things we wouldn't be able to do with children living with us. However, as wothrwhile as all these things are, we are now coming to realise that we have filled our life with activities so that we aren't in the house of an evening thinking about what we could have but don't.
We now realise we need time for us.  When we first go together we would have evenings curled up watching a film, or go for a meal or to the cinema.  We actually enjoyed living in our house.  Now it seems our house is just a base where we sleep.  
I think for me, the one positive about living child-free would be that I am able to love my husband and have time with him, knowing that we don't have anyone else in the house to be responsible for (apart from weekends lol), We get carried along on a wave of emotions, and sometimes forget why we are with our partners in the first place (it has happened to me).  I didn't marry my hubby to have a baby, I married him cos I love him. xxxx


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## Moretolife

Thanks Kate and Flow, its good to hear your thoughts  

Recently has been a very trying time losing my nan and great uncle in the last month and my old neighbour who use to look after me a lot when I was little, growing up I was in and out of her house. Going to funerals affects a lot of people obviously but I think the emotions for those without children, especially those who have also lost or don't have a partner it is much worse as asides from the grief about the person that has gone, it makes you think about who will be there when you are old and who will attend your funeral and what will they have to say. I know its morbid stuff but I think for a lot of us its what our fear of future looks like and as I say so many funerals in such a short space of time has kicked in these thoughts somewhat.

So I've been thinking about how I deal with this and wondered how other others feel and cope with those feelings?  

The answer seems to be to live life to the full, connect with people so that you have good relationships, achieve what you hope to achieve and live the life you have.. The problem for me is that feels a lot of pressure! Friends are really important but friendships can come and go by their very nature, family you don't always get on with so can limit contact and sometimes it can be hard to achieve all that you want. 

I've come to the conclusion that this isn't something that those of without children only feel. I think we look at those who are surrounded by children, grandchildren and rest of their family and feel that they are immune to the worry about who will look after them and who will remember them. But in reality I think most of us feel it whatever our circumstances as its just part of being human, in some ways that has actually been helping me as I am pretty focused on the fact its harder without having a full family. 

My nan is nearly 97, has 3 kids, 3 daughter-in-laws, 8 grandchildren, 3 great-grandchildren and is well looked after by my parents. But when I talked to her she said she feels lonely. She isn't alone as my part of the family do a lot for her but thats still her feeling, having a family hasn't made her immune to it and in fact the rest of the family only see her about once a year, three of the grandkids not at all as they've moved away and aren't interested. She has been living alone for 6 years now and although I feel sure she recognises how much is done for her - that she wouldn't have if she didn't have children - she has the same issues about dying and being alone. My great uncle interestingly never married, has no children, he lived all his life with his sister and her family yet I never heard him say he felt lonely. When my aunt died he got a flat in a sheltered accommodation and he started joining in the coffee mornings and fish and chip nights and he would do shopping and odd jobs for the other residents. So he has a lot of people attending his funeral despite having no family of his own. In the later years when we were all adults he would accept invites to family occasions, he was fortunate that he was always included as not everybody would do that but he made the effort and so was a part of things when he wanted to. This has been quite an eye opener for me to challenge the idea that we won't have anyone when we're old and destined to have a small gathering at our funerals by virtue of not having children. And has really challenged the idea that loneliness comes with not having children and grandchildren. 

I'm not saying its issue solved now! But it has helped stopping me seeing it in such a blinkered way as childlessness equals noone to care for you in old age, loneliness and an empty funeral gathering and that having a family equals love, being cared for and full funeral with many people saying how much they loved you    Obviously I've always know there are people who have kids they don't see and who don't want to know, people who isolate themselves through life or in old age, those who have lost their family and people who had no kids but who are adored and respected and have plenty of people to talk about them. So I am going to work on nurturing this fragile idea that I won't be invisible and instantly forgotten the moment I become elderly and die (if I reach old age!!) and that I don't have to do something extra-ordinary to be remembered. People with children can console themselves with the comfort of their family but I think everyone experiences the same fear about feeling alone and what they mean to others and I need to remember that. 

My mum and dad said to me recently that they wouldn't want to be a burden or end up in a care home that they would rather just go. There is no pleasure in the idea for them that they would have children to care for them if they get too infirm to do it themselves. And this is from my mum who has made her life her family. There is no comfort for them in thinking we will care for them. 

Sorry if its too morbid a post, its uncomfortable subject matter and maybe carrying on in this positives thread might not be an appropriate place but as it was a sort of lightbulb moment of thinking it seemed right    Its a bit of a wishy-washy idea and maybe is more personal to me right now but for years thats my greatest fear about far in the future about not having children and now it feels a smidgen more comfortable. The funerals although incredibly sad have played out like a lesson to me. My nan's funeral was very poorly attended despite having three kids, 5 grandkids and at least four great grandkids (family is estranged so don't know what my cousins are doing) Only my immediate family and her son went due to the way she was with her family and how she treated them. She did have friends but they are gone and she was housebound for a number of years, it was her husband who cared for her, mainly out of duty. Having family didn't make her life complete and make her well remembered. Sadly she was the cause of her unhappiness. Again I felt there was a lot to learn there. To be fair her failing health for years in the end and the fact most of her peers were gone meant there wouldn't have been many to make the funeral but if she had made more of people in the years that she could have done that would have meant something. 

Food for thought. Thanks for letting me offload my thoughts and as I say am interested in hearing how others cope with this difficult notion if they too are dealing with these thoughts and fears about the future. I'm only 35 so its not an everyday concern by any means but is one of the real negative issues that comes up for me when I think about life or when confronted by death. Its helping for it to not be so overwhelming and challenging such helpless thoughts. We live and learn   

MTL x


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## Flow13

MTL, I know what you mean with having these thoughts of who will take care of us later in life. 
There are 17 years between myself and my dh.  So although you never know what is around the corner, I could quite possibly outlive dh.  I often wonder what I would do if I lost him,  I have sisters, but these are both years older than me (13 an 17 years older). I have my stepchildren, yet I don't think they woiuld want to be burdened with a third parent to look after.  
These thoughts go through my head, and yet I know I shouldn't be thinking about them, as there are many years left yet and anything could happen.  Sometimes it seems like we are programmed to think and expect the worst situation (I know I do). And yet really we should be grateful for what we have now, and enjoy what we have - easier said than done
So many times I have positive thought, but these are soon replaced with negatives.  
I am there with you though.xxxx


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## daisy66

Hi Girls 
Hope I can join you, am looking for inspiration following my very last BFN today. I knew the chances werent good, have even tried to gradually persuade myself that we would be better off without kids but still devasted. 
Our relationship has been devastated by the cost of treatment financially and emotionally, hanging on in there! DP wanted this all to be over a year ago, but i know he is disappointed now that he will never be a dad. 
What makes this harder somehow is that nothing has found to be wrong with either of us - maybe just not meant to be. 
It helps to know there are others feeling the same out there x


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## Nordickat

I´m hoping that no breast feeding means I´ll never be able to tuck my boobs into my pants!


Thanks for sharing MTL. I´ve been battling the ´what happens when I get old´demons recently.


Katxxx


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## Maisyz

You are more likely to keep full control of your bladder into old age. Apparently kid birth wreaks havoc. We will never have to carry multi packs of Tena lady around. Def bright side


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## Moretolife

Mel - you do have a way with words    I avoided putting those types of things on my 'positives list' as although this thread is for those without children, I know those with kids or still pursuing tx like to take a look at the posts and wouldn't want to cause offence   It is nice to think my parts can stay in better shape as you paint a vivid picture! Although at only 35 I am noticing gravity is working regardless!!!

Daisy - its incredibly raw for you at the moment so no doubt too early for you to really embrace the positives yet, the grieving comes first. But like many of us we prepare ourselves mentally for how we might feel if it doesn't work out especially if done multiple cycles. Hopefully it helps a little to gently start looking at the other side and know it is there even though its too early for you to feel it yet. 

Flow - very wise words hun. I know I risked bringing the thread down with some an emotive topic but its there for me right now whether I wanted to face it or not as there is a lot of grief having lost so many people in such a short space of time. But as I was writing it I was feeling more uplifted as my thinking was shifting a little. You are so right about us being programmed to think the worst. Something its well worth us working on so we don't ruin the good years that we have   Recognising everyone has these fears, including those who've happily chosen not to have kids, shows me how much I latch my grief about my childlessness on to some many different things and I don't have to do that. For all I know if I could have had the 2-3 children I wanted they could have loved travelling and live on the other side of the world so it would still be just me and I hope to god dh anyway. And as my parents said there is absolutely no satisfaction of thinking your kids can take the burden if your health and mobility declines. My nan now she is a great age has declined in the last few years and in effect being her carers is ruining the relationship she has with my parents to a certain extent. If she had an independent carer that wouldn't be the case but my parents see it as their role. 

For me I think part of the reason it worries me so much is because my health is so poor and has been for 4 years now. But you are so right we should be making the most of these years we have instead of worrying what may or might not happen and stop the worst case scenario thinking there is no comfort in it.

Mtl x


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## ♥JJ1♥

I think that unless you are childless (not have children who have grown up etc)  then you will have a different view than those of us with no success and no children at all as it is a decision that has been forced upon us.


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## Rowan22

I agree, JJ1, though I didn't know whether to say anything. I've had mad moments when I've been prepared to put my life on the line (literally, at one point I had heart trouble and recently there was suspected hypertension), to have a baby. Sometimes the only thing that stopped those mad moments was my dh's agonised face. 

Rowan


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## Nordickat

Daisy - I think one of the mistakes we make is trying too hard to convince ourselves that we are better off without kids. I don't think it is better or worse, it's just a very different path and it takes time to adjust and to see the pros before we see the cons. I'm still very much focused on the negatives but I know I'm still grieving.

Today I was glad to not have to try and entertain kids all day. The weather was grim and we were completely self absorbed. I sat on the sofa knitting while DH watched rugby. Guilt free me-timeis a big positive of being child free.


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## Moretolife

Its so true there are many of us who have really sacrificed a lot to try and have a family. When some members who have children come on here for whatever reason I think there can be a need to lighten the posting and don't mean any harm or offence but it can be difficult for some. The benefits of what my body won't have to go through with pg, labour, breast-feeding etc is a double edged sword for me as it was putting myself through multiple cycles of IVF that caused my severe relapse of M.E so the damage is already done. Its tough as there is much in life I want to embrace but am restricted because of my health problems which were caused by the relentless trying to have a baby which is the final insult. 

I know there are really mixed emotions about what the positives are and how you can view life post trying for a family, its taken me time to grieve and for my emotions to shift but it is incredibly hard living with the legacy of infertility which is the M.E. Also the debts of 30k which we had to shift onto our mortgage. 

Then were also all the friendships lost, relationships damaged and marriage put under strain. I doubt there are many who come out of it unscathed. I guess we all want recognition of all that whilst we rebuild a different life. 

Mtl x


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## melloumaw

message removed sorry for any offence just trying to give answers to the title of the thread
mel


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## Nordickat

Now that is all dealt with lets get back to what this thread was for and try and find some positives in our lives and in our futures. The first thing i'm going to do is read through mtl's first post and remind myself of a few of them. There are positives, its just some days they are hard to see. I think i focus too much on the big daunting picture and i should think small and build up to the big stuff. 

And on that note i'm going to bed with my book which i'm planning to enjoy in bed tomorrow morning  and when i finally get up i'll enjoy the indulgence of an espresso, the paper and the tranquility - a small but important positive in my life 

Night night,
Katxxx


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## HopeShines78

Hi - not given up just yet - but just sitting here at my laptop and heard the neighbour's dad say 'Get to your f***** bed now' - presuming to one of the many little 'uns they have. So, it is not all laughs and fun. Good luck everyone. x


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## Nosilab

Hi all

I haven't totally given up all hope yet, although I have just spent the last 24 hours bawling my eyes out.  Last night DH admitted that he wants tx to come to an end, he's had enough, even though we have 3 snow babies and I was hoping for at least one FET early this year    Saying that, I thought it would be sensible to start having a look around on this board in preparation for it all coming to an end a year earlier than I'd hoped.  Have found all your posts very inspirational, so I've bookmarked for future reference  

xx


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## jo_11

I know this is an old post I'd just like to say a heartfelt 'thank you' to all the ladies who've posted here.  And I know it's a 'positive' post but particularly MTL's posts about later life, and where we're all going to end up, has resonated.  I've recently lost my Mum, and a v close 'father figure' has terminal cancer (my Dad died 11 yrs ago), so I'm feeling at a loose end about all that.  I think it's about who we are as people, not about who we have genetically linked to us.  As I often say, you can't choose your family, but you can choose your friends.  I just need to repeat that mantra a bit more.


Given that this post is a couple of months' old, if anyone's still reading    I'm in the throes of thinking about a life a without children.  You'll see from my signature that I've pretty much been banging my head against a brick wall with ttc for a long time.  DH wants to stop; personally I think I'd go on forever if I could but realise that it has to come to an end at some point.  So this year is it; then we'll be done.  So I'm just dipping my toe in the water of what life without kids means.  It's a difficult one


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## Nosilab

Hi Jo, it's a really difficult time isn't it    I never thought I'd be over here on the 'moving on' board, but here I am dipping my toes in too.  Although we haven't made a definite decision re tx/no more tx I think it's probably something that'll be decided on over the next few months.  Sending hugs your way


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## jo_11

Thanks Nosilab;   right back atcha 

Your sig says your DH doesn't want any more tx; did he change his mind?


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## Nosilab

Hi Jo

No, sadly he hasn't changed his mind, not sure if he will.  We have a joint counselling session tomorrow to go over it all - don't know what the outcome will be.  Tricky times (to say the least)  

 xx


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## jo_11

Good luck for your session; hopefully DH will see that this has to be a joint decision.  x


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## Nosilab

Thank you, I hope so too xx


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## eggtastic

I thought I would add a few things...

As I walk sightseeing or walking along in a museum... I hear screeching and crying and parents tring to shush their children... well that is something I do not envy.

When I see women moaning and graoning on 'one born every minute'... I say to Dh, well I don't envy her and her pain!

When friends moan about them missing their child free days of travelling carefree... I don't really envy them...

I am starting to really see the plus sides of not having children... We can indulge ourselves ... go to bed late, have sleep ins, not be woken up by children... don't have to worry about anyone elses future... spend or money on us... spend money on us instead of tx... 

Its actually come slowly... this is having felt very sad for a long period of time... but all of these things I am starting to see are thoughts that creep up on me.  

I don't find it hard to see children.. when I see them I smile and admire how sweet they are but I am not under any illusion that they can be little brats too    When I have an opportunity to spend time with friends children.. I enjoy it and it is really nice...

The hardest part really was when they were baby's and it is that inner maternal instinct of mine that would kick up a fuss with my emotions...

The other tough part at the moment is that when I see DH and he watches something on TV and I can see how cute he feels a child is I know that deep down he is yearning and missing 'his' child.  That makes me sad.  I some was I am moving on and so is he but I feel that he is still yearning for his child...

In some ways it was always my call to a certain degree as where we would draw the line.  As in it was my body that was enduring the medications,  the egg collections, the laparoscopies, the hysteroscopies... and finally enough was enough.... 

I am not in limbo... as in we have an opportunity to be parents... I feel that I cannot face another cycle... but if I could just get my head around egg donor we could have a go at surrogacy... easier said than done... but the more I see my DH's yearning and sadness... the more I want to get over my feelings on the matter of DE.

I want to add that, infertility, the whole journey has put a huge amount of pressure on us... weve had tough times... but it seems that it has made us stronger... my dh loves me and wants me regardless of being able to produce babies.. and that means so much to me... for all of the insecurities that IF brings with it, it has also brought security to me...and for that, I am thankful... for if Infertility was not a part of my life, I would never feel this strong bond at all.


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## Nordickat

I have another positive to being childfree and thats that we still talk to our partners, we can talk about important stuff but also about nothing too. Its great and its something we maybe don´t appreciate enough.


This is a sweeping generalisation, but parents of small children clearly never speak to each other about anything other than their children. You can´t give one parent a message for the other because it just never gets there. You can´t talk to them about something on the news because they have no clue what is going on beyond the route from kindergarten to home. You can´t talk to them about music, books, movies, holidays or anything because they don´t have time for such frivolities ......... so what on earth to they talk to each other about? The not communicating thing I´ve noticed loads recently amongst friends and neighbours. It really infuriates me (when I´m in bad mood at least   ) that I have to have to same conversation twice because they just don´t have time to talk to each other.


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## Keiki

I just want to say thank you to all those who posted on this topic. It has helped me a great deal after my latest BFN. I'm not sure how much more treatment I can take, my fiancé doesn't want to give up just yet, but this helps me to honestly consider life without a child of our own.

It's so hard not to be bleak, but when you go on this site and see all the ladies who are in a similar boat to you and are so kind and supportive, it gives you a little hope and comfort. So thank you, especially to More2life for all her recommendations and views.   xx


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## bernie1971

I'd also like to thank all you lovely ladies for the wise words. It really helps! xx


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## Candy76

Hi guys!

Something I have been wanting to add to the list for a while:

You don't have to be health & safety aware - I can hit frozen raspberries with an axe (or anything else that happens to by nearby) without worrying if someone will copy it


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## Fudd

This is so positive and great to see people feeling the same way. I am at early stages of coming to terms but getting there.


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## Sunshine7155

This is such a great post and despite being an old post it has brought me comfort today.  I am back to dipping my toe into this after years of infertility, 3 miscarriages and now a failed adoption to add to the list after our ds was diagnosed with the severest form of autism and social services decided he would be better off in long term foster care.  So now I am back to where we were - the dreaded crossroads of do we stay as 2, do we adopt again or do we have more tx?  Having read these posts it is helping me see the benefits of being 2 especially after looking after a child with such severe special needs for 7 months and living how tough it is.  

I would like to add to this list after my experience and say that I appreciate my DH so so much as the time we had our ds we hardly spoke to each other as we were so tired...we have got that back again and love each other so much.  We can go out for a walk in the country without worrying about whether our ds will decide to drop to his knees every 5 seconds or run in the opposite direction to the way we want to go.  We can go into town and look around the shops and stop for a coffee without the worry of a child getting agitated.  We can go on holiday and stay out til late...and we can eat in the restaurants we wanna eat in rather than the ones that sell pizza, chicken nuggets or chips.  We can have a lie in at the weekends and not be woken to a screaming child.  The grass really is always greener whatever situation you are in but there are lots of fun times to be had as 2 and I know that having been 3 with our very special little boy would have been very hard and times would have been a constant worry and the loneliness I felt was the worst I have ever felt because of him being so special.  At least now I can go out with friends to cheer myself up or go out with my gorgeous DH without the worry of getting a baby sitter.....of ocular we I know that what I have lost has bee incredibly painful but this thread is helping me to look at the positives that I had sometimes forgotten...so thank you xxx


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## Tash1973

Hi there, is anyone still using this thread? We've just finished our second and final IVF cycle and whilst everything is very early and very raw I am wanting to draw a line under things and try to move on.


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## katehe

Hi tash
Sorry to find yourself in our boat x
How u doin? I think u r very brave to be looking at this board so soon after ivf.
Took me months to find the courage xx thoughts are with you x


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## Tash1973

Hi Kate, it's tough, it really is. A lot of my family member are pregnant and with Xmas not that far away life feels a little bleak. I came on here for some positives and it's helped a little, I'm just really looking at what our plan b will be now that life has dealt us a different set of cards than we were hoping for. How are you dealing with things? I think we may do a runner at Xmas and get away from it all xx


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## katehe

Hi tash
I am ok- mostly in the acceptable phase but I would say I still think about it every day-
Xmas is a hard time for us too - good idea to go away and come back with a tan!!! Xx


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## CupcakeUK

I know this is an old post but I am grateful to those who have posted replies as it has helped me think more positively following our last IVF attempt which failed a few days ago.  It has truly left me broken and I can't do this anymore.

I hope I too will find the strength to move on and enjoy the life I have with my amazing husband.


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## Morganite76

Thank you!!!


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