# Couples using IVF should anticipate needing at least six cycles



## Squiggly

http://iwantoread.com/index.php/2015/12/22/couples-using-ivf-should-anticipate-needing-at-least-six-cycles-scientists-say/

Hi Everyone

Not sure if this is good news or not.

Just wanted to share this article which emphasises that around 2/3 of us can become pregnant eventually via IVF, though it may take 6-9 cycles (including fresh and frozen). It suggests that perhaps we shouldn't give up after 'only' 3 or 4 cycles, since the cumulative rate continues to rise with each attempt.

I guess whether we are willing to give it so many goes depends a lot on how we cope with the IVF process, how determined we are and how deep our pockets are!

Things look rosiest for those under 35 and those who are willing to use donor eggs. (But we knew that!)

This research suggests that around 1/3 of us will never become pregnant, no matter how cycles we try.

Any thoughts?

/links


----------



## Squiggly

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3370615/The-secret-IVF-success-SIX-cycles-65-couples-child-duration-study-finds.html

Another similar article - which includes a reasonable plea for an increase in NHS funding/ fairness in funding. Also it's a longer article with perhaps a bit more detail.

Perhaps this news is a good reason to 'invest' in a package of IVF which agrees on several cycles?

/links


----------



## Bax

Interesting stuff, and backs up the theory that it can take a few cycles to sort out what works for each individual, and we also need that bit of luck and magic too...

My clinic does private prepay for 2 or 3 cycles, but the discount (ie gamble) wasn't good enough for us to really consider it in my age group.  I'm currently 7w3d from my 6th cycle if ICSI, so I'm definately taking this research as good news!


----------



## sandyman

I read this article myself this morning, and I think it is very positive. I agree that IVF should be views as a 'course' of treatments, in makes it feel less negative when you get that BFN and perhaps it will start to put the pressure on the NHS to realise that infertility is on the rise, and affecting people younger and younger now, and that they should follow guidelines and fund at least three cycles if they want to actually give people the chance to get past the disease of infertility.


----------



## Daisy38

Hello Ladies,

This article same theme was in the Southland time, with the title " Women are giving up on IVF too soon".

Easy to summaries, this based on the research, however it doesn't take into account how exhausting mentally, emotionally and financially it is for a couple to undergo repeated cycles. I had repeated cycles and it cost a great deal plus putting a massive strain on my employment .....which of course I needed to fund the cycles. It was a nightmare having repeated fertility tx while trying to hold down a job.

If the tx was free OK " giving up to soon" but its not free. In many many many ways there is a massive emotional and financial cost......it gets to the point that you think you are throwing good money after bad as it is swallowed up in medical bills. You don't know if you are the 30-40% that will never conceive through IVF.

The reason I say medical bills is because it was disease of the reproductive system that was the issue for me. So yes medical bills, as the infertility industry makes a great deal of money from my medical condition.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/life-style/75498439/Women-are-giving-up-on-IVF-too-soon-study-says

Interesting to hear what other ff's have to say about "giving up too soon".

LOL Daisy38


/links


----------



## cosmopolitan4112008

If the ivf doctors were more thorough at the very first cycle with each couple, esp with women (thyroid,  blood clotting, immunes ), all this would take much shorter and would be cheaper in a long run. Many doctors keep prescribing the same protocol and without further investigations.  So, no wonder it takes so long and with a change of clinics and doctors!


----------



## deblovescats

I know that people might say it's ok for me as I was lucky on my 3rd attempt with DE and I'm so grateful, but just wanted to put in a comment. I agree that if we are able to keep going, there may be a positive outcome, but lots of us have to pay anyway. The NHS has massive costs to the population so it wouldn't be feasible to pay for everyone to have as many tx as the paper is suggesting! I realise how difficult it is to have fertility issues but to many people who are terminally ill with terrible diseases, I'm sure they'd think that some of the money should go on researching new treatments. If you are over 42, even if you are happy to use DE, you still do not qualify for funding so it wouldn't have made any difference to me. I'm not saying it shouldn't be funded, but the NHS does not have limitless funds. I had to fund myself like many people, and as I'm single and don't have a large salary, I've had to save up very hard. 
Just thought I'd throw that in the mix - not saying people shouldn't get it. In an ideal world, there'd be money for everything.
Deb


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hi

I saw this in the news and thought - finally!......although just a shame that the NHS obviously are not on board......so sad that some people don't even get any free cycles at all - all depends on postcode......

Luckily my DH and I had two fresh and one frozen cycle on the NHS......however I felt that they were very "one size fits all" and unfortunately we were obviously the wrong size......the cycles were not adapted around you as a couple enough to be individual enough........although some couples and people are lucky enough to have it work........

Anyway gives us people hope that have had a few cycles and wonder whether we should go again......although its not just the stress of the treatment its the money also that is a big issue for many people having to go through the treatment cycles.......

I have always felt that the first couple of cycles are a little like "test runs" and they are learning as such what works, doesn't work, goes wrong, goes right, needs tweaking......but for many you cannot afford these "test runs".......

Here is hoping that in the future the NHS recognise infertility more and treatment is more accessible for those desperately wanting/needing it - its not like we chose to be infertile and have to go through this - and yet your almost treated a little like your having cosmetic surgery by some people!.......

anyway thanks for sharing the article

x


----------



## mamochka

I don't know how they figured out about 6-9 cycles but say for a women age 42+ when chances are only 10% of her eggs are chromosomally ok (on average) no matter how many cycles you do and when it is very hard to pin point when this golden egg (1 of 10) is going to resurface and meet the good sperm. My 2cents.


----------



## Hopefulshell

I absolutely agree with the comment (apologies can't scroll back) about the NHS should do more thorough testing from day one rather than letting us fail with the 'it's just bad luck story' given as an explanation. I'm a prime example of how a lack of in-depth testing failed to reveal crucial underlying problems that were only discovered after I paid privately to find them. I know I'm not alone in that situation either.  People complain that IVF is a waste of resources and a drain on the NHS yet the NHS are effectively wasting pounds by ignoring (or failing to recognise) immunes as a serious issue for infertility   Sorry, can you tell I'm on Prednisolone at the mo? he he  

When my DH told me about this news story my first reaction was one of horror because I'd spent months reconciling with myself that 5 attempts was enough. Now, I'm left thinking am I walking away too soon?! If I was younger and less battle-weary it may have been a positive headline but personally, I think it just puts more pressure on vulnerable couples to keep carrying on even when they've reached the end of the IF road. 

Just my two pennies worth (must get back to work now   )
x


----------



## Peony86

Although it is good to hear that there is hope with multiple tries, it's also stressful! I live in South Africa where fertility treatment is not covered by medical aid so almost everything my hubby and I had to do thus far had to be paid in cash! I really hope that soon medical aids will re-evaluate their cover on fertility treatment.


----------



## Squiggly

Great to hear all your thoughts on this. Thanks.


----------



## marty123

Hi, Squiggly! This point can be a rather controversial one for younger women. Until we face it we don't believe. 
I'm almost 40 yo and have several fertility issues. All they added make me a true candidate for DE ivf. Though I do have a positive outlook and have deep hope in what we're doing it's still a great question for us how many attempts should be done by us. Our fertility center biotexcom offers 3 programs for egg donation. All they seem attractive from the financial point of view. But still what about the number of attempts for us to be done. If the conversation goes like this may you give your pieces of advice, all you lovely ladies?
So, number 1. 1 attempt - ECONOMY - 4900 euro in 1 installment after you sign the contract. In case selective reduction is needed we will be charged 1000 euro additionally. 
Number 2. 2 attempts - DOUBLE - 6900 euro in 2 equal installments. Selective reduction is covered by the package price.
Number 3. 5 attempts - GUARANTEED SUCCESS - 9900 euro in 2 equal installments. In case of 5 negatives they refund the money paid. Selective reduction is covered by the package price as well.
So, judging from my almost being 40 yo, shall we apply for the last one with 5 attempts??


----------



## NAT1DRAGONFLY

Hi marty123

This is a very difficult one........

It depends on I suppose on if financially you would be able to fund the option (3) to enable you to have five attempts and then if unsuccessful get refunded. What would happen if you got your BFP on your first try, do you mind me asking?? would you get any refund at all, or do you just lose all the remaining monies you have paid in? or do they for instance give you a chance to use your additional tries within a certain time scale i.e. within a year or two?

From my experience, you will see from my signature thread, that I have had several cycles and therefore in my opinion wouldn't be going for option 1, only because I would always air on the side of caution that just in case it doesn't work it would work out more expensive - whereas when you get a deal/package it works out more financially better for you - plus also gives you that piece of mind that should you not be successful first time round you have the other cycles there ready to fall back on.

Because of my past history I would be going with option 3 - but am I just saying that because hind sight is a beautiful thing - because I know a few cycles didn't work for me -  but on the same token on saying that - if I was back at the beginning of all of this journey when we first started full of hope etc. I would have gone with option 2 to sort of meet in the middle, not just one cycle but not going to full hog with the 5 as such - maybe!? because I would have been feeling more optimistic......but the 5 cycles option I feel is a very tempting one both financially and for your options for more cycles etc.

Good luck with your decision and I hope the ladies on here will help you make up your mind.......


x


----------



## goldbunny

cosmopolitan4112008 said:


> If the ivf doctors were more thorough at the very first cycle with each couple, esp with women (thyroid, blood clotting, immunes ), all this would take much shorter and would be cheaper in a long run. Many doctors keep prescribing the same protocol and without further investigations. So, no wonder it takes so long and with a change of clinics and doctors!


i agree! this article/information is really useful though as in the time i have been using this site i have seen countless people come in and get really stressed that their first IVF might not work (and while it is upsetting, it's much easier to deal with if your expectations are realistic) and i think this infomation will help people who are just starting out on the IVF journey. Good luck anyone reading this in that situation.


----------



## Bax

Marty - what a dillema you have in front of you!  You'll see from my signature that I've had lots of cycles too - each one being "one last try" to varying degrees.

Like Dragonfly says, hindsight is a wonderful thing,  But looking at the prices you have been quoted, the cost of the full individual package is more or less the same as two single "one last try" cycles - and then you get 3 more for free of needed!  Of course you would need to weigh up whether you can afford those kind of costs but in my case (also 40 when I started this journey) I think it would have really helped to have a realistic plan in place for multiple cycles.  There is always a chance that the first (or second etc etc) will work, but at our ages I think it's realistic to look at more than one cycle.

And I hate to put a downer of the conversation, but also check what is counted as a success.  In the plans I looked at (and discounted because they didn't offer much of a saving on individual cycles) a success was a live birth, meaning any miscarriage or chemical pregnancy is ignored and funded treatment can continue.  You might want to check your clinic takes the same approach.  Good luck x


----------



## marty123

Great thanks to all of you, ladies 
I appreciate your thoughts very much, dear NAT, goldbunny and Bax. Seems like the initial topic was just right hint for me to make my mind. Because of my age I do really worry about of it being unsuccessful round one or two. And here I must agree fully with Bax, women our age need more attempts to achieve pregnancy. And I cannot ignore my eggs being of a very poor quality. But now I just don't want to go into all Ifs and Whys. Probably the program with 5 attempts will be just right for us. But anyway I'm going to ask all those questions NAT suggested. Haven't thought about it before really...
Hug you strongly and lots of baby dust for everyone


----------



## amber-ruby

interesting articles, thanks for sharing x


----------

