# Hello...just need a few friendly words



## Sonybear (Sep 8, 2008)

Hello All,

As you can see from my signature we have had one tx that failed and we went back to see the consultant yesterday who told my husband that his sperm abnormaility is so severe that in the 15 years he has worked in reproductive medicine he has never seen anything like it...they are asking permission of the **** to use a calcium solution that isnt legal in UK for another ICSI try but he has told us that he honestly doesnt think this will work and that we should consider donor.  

As selfish as it sounds we have always said that we wont use donor and we dont want this next ICSI try (if its approved) as we are worried that the genes my husband may pass on could result in problems for any children we have.  So the upshot is we now have to consider our life without children.....to be honest since our last tx failed 2 months ago I thought I had got my head around it and after 4 years of planning nothing and saving money, I have been buying things to make my hubby happy (hate to see him upset) and planning in stuff for the rest of the year and just trying to think of what I can do to make our future more exciting, but yesterday seems to have weakned my resolve and set me off on the grieving process again.

Anyway I know I have waffled and I hope I haven't upset anyone by posting anything on this board that is inappropriate,  I just needed to get my feelings out of my head onto paper and use this post as my way of accepting what we were told yesterday and moving on.


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## Pol (Mar 9, 2007)

Hello Sonybear

I don't think you have to worry about upsetting people - we're all pretty open about our feelings on this board!

I'm so sorry to hear your news.  It is really hard to deal with, and I can totally identify with your feelings, especially trying to keep you husbands spirits up - I found mine crying in the shed once and that really was the worst point ever!  It's very hard to be there for each other as well as finding your own time to express how you feel and it can be a worry that in telling your partner when you are feeling sad you'll bring him down and that can put barriers up.  We have learnt now to tell each other whenever we're feeling sad and let the other person either join in or comfort us as we see fit (and a few years on the sadness is usually passing and much milder, but still there!)

I think most people find that the grieving does go in waves and perhaps you never completely 'get over it'.  Please be gentle with yourself.  If it wasn't a big deal it would be easy to get over, but it's an enormous deal and grieving is natural and human.  I used to feel an enormous pressure to 'be happy' all the time as if that was how I could prove to myself that I was a successful person, until a counsellor pointed out to me that I don't judge other people that way, and in fact that I would find it very difficult to relate to or even like someone who could just brush off something like infertility as something that really wasn't worth crying over!

Also I'm not sure why you would feel that it would be 'selfish' not to consider donated sperm.  This is something we wouldn't consider either.  It's a very personal decision, but one that we felt the consultants just treated as if it was a medical solution and almost pressed us towards.  I don't feel that way at all about it and for me it brings up all sorts of issues that I didn't want to have to handle within my family, but at the same time I understand that for other people it is a solution.  Please don't feel judged on this issue - it's right that each couple should do as they see fit on this issue, and if that is your gut reaction it's probably the right decision for you.

Anyway I hope that some of this helps you.  There are some fab ladies who post on this board and I'm sure someone will be along with their thoughts soon

Jx


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## Sonybear (Sep 8, 2008)

Hi Pol,

Thank you for your kind words, I know deep down that how I feel is natural but I just needed someone else who has been through the same to tell me that its ok to greive.

I'm also really grateful for your words about donor, the consultant mentioned we could ask hubby's brother to donate (as he already has kids) and it was said as if it was the same as asking him to look after my cats for a few weeks whilst I go away!  We felt selfish about being upset about not having kids because we did have this option but we have so many reservations and had said from the outset that it wouldnt work for our relationship and for me personally I wouldnt be able to handle it, so to see you have gone through your own thought processes and decided against it has made me feel so much better.

Big Hugs


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## Pol (Mar 9, 2007)

Hello again

I absolutely agree it seemed really odd to me how off-hand they are about donations.  For me personally I am absolutely convinced that if I was not married to my husband I wouldn't be married, and it's his children I wanted to have.  I also feel that it would undermine him even more for me to even consider having someone elses, especially a known donor.  And those are just some of the reasons - I've a whole list more - as to why it wouldn't be right for us. I guess the consultants just come at it from a 'you want to have a children and we will do whatever it takes to make that happen' point of view, but it can be very unsettling, and I do genuinely worry about what it does to the children, and to family ties, latter on.  There was someone on the radio just the other day talking about finding his 'real' father ie the sperm donor.  That really worried me when I thought about how matter-of-factly the whole idea had been put to us.

Anyway must get on with some work  

Jx


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## Bambam (Feb 14, 2008)

Hi Sonybear 

This journey of ours can be so utterly cruel     Come and join us on the general chat thread hon. It's for advice, support, rants and general chit chat 

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=194946.15

Amanda xx


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## Irish Dee (Jan 30, 2008)

Hi Sonybear,

Just wanted to say hello and give you a cyber  .

Like you and your husband, we decided before we even embared on our first consultation that we would not consider donor eggs and/or sperm and though fortunate enough to be able to creat viable embryoes, we have yet to get pregnant.  There are thousands of of couples out there with 'unexplained' infertility who will never be able to have a child, at least you know that that route is now closed and all you can now do is to plan your life. 

**************************************************************************
It's important to remember.....................

To try to make some sense of the infertility nightmare, I've tried to put down a few thoughts about how I feel about it all.  

Sometimes I get so obsessed about having a baby, I kind of forget the reasons that I wanted one in the first place.  Myself and my DH were chatting about this the other night and we have come to a few realisations.

We are only in this situation because firstly we found each other, fell in love and decided that we would live out our lives together.  We have managed to build ourselves quite a nice life that we hope to share this with a little one.

Secondly, we are not looking for a baby to 'fix' us, to make up happy or to give us a distraction from any misery/unhappiness. 

Thirdly, and this one took me some time to realise. At 37, I've always believed that I would love to have a baby, but if it was the most important thing to me, I'd probably have had a baby in my 20's. 

I was 32 when I met my husband and I never, ever considered having a baby when I was by myself. Who knows, if I was single, perhaps I would spend a lot if time on 'Match.com' instead of FF!!!!!!!

More than a baby, I always wanted a family and that is only possible with our lovely husbands/partners. 
We are our own little family and one day we will hold a little hand in ours!!!!

When faced with infertility it sometimes feels that it is the hardest thing in the world.  There are hundreds of thousands of people out there struggling every day with their own demons.  

Even though I sometimes think enviously about friends/family who have children, would I actually swap what I have for what they have?  If I was actually given the choice that I could have a baby, but I would have to make serious changes to my own life, would I do it?  The answer is no.

Most people struggle with something.  Illness, unemployment, a sick parent, a sick child, money worries, lack of understanding, lack of fun, lack of intimacy, lack of love.  I think we often forget that there are more ways than infertility to upset your life.  

I have to believe that one day, our prayers will be answered and we will become parents.  

Every success story that I read on FF has the same message.  Everyone says that as soon as you hold your little one in your arms, the years of pain and heartache just melt away.

If that is the case, I don't want to waste a minute of my life worrying and being upset about something that I have absolutely no control over.

I only have one life and this is my intention.  I'm going to enjoy mine.  I'm going to enjoy my husband.  I'm going to enjoy my friends.  I'm going to enjoy my freedom (even though it is imposed on me!)

I will do all I can, for as long as I can to create a baby, but in the meantime, I'm going to have some FUN!!!

Babydust to all,

Dee


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## Montagne (Nov 27, 2008)

Hello Sonybear

Gosh what difficult news you are dealing with, i just wanted to send you some hugs       . It is perfectly natural to feel that you need to grieve and I think that no matter how much we try and prepare ourselves for the eventuality of not being able to have children it is still a very painful and difficult thing to deal with when it becomes a final reality. Like you we decided against donor - for many of the reasons that you and Pol have mentioned.......
I feel that whichever decisions you make will be the right ones for you - doctors are used to finding solutions to medical problems and often forget the emotional and psychological consequences of their "cures"!
Be kind and gentle with yourself and give yourself all the time that you need. 

Hugs

Sam
XXX


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## Sonybear (Sep 8, 2008)

Hello peeps,

Didnt want to come back onto the forum until I felt like I had moved on but honestly I just cant get there..ended up blubbing my eyes out last night after watching Eastenders because two characters were saying that you are only complete with a family. For some reason then found myself up in the loft getting down the baby items we had bought over 4 years and then blubbing again! Then just been out for lunch saw two women with buggys and blubbed again.  Even managed to make my DH blub this morning by talking about christmas!

I know deep down we have made the right decision not to go the donor route but whilst me head is telling me its right my heart feels like it might jump out through my throat!

AHHHH  I am driving myself insane!  Think my next plan of attack is to clear the loft of all upsetting things and get the spare room painted and turned into a fully functioning room so that it doesnt look so empty and souless.  

On a positive note though I have booked into to start a Psychology A-Level in September and I am gonna join the gym again next week.


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## Pol (Mar 9, 2007)

Hi Sonybear

You really can't put a timetable on these things - at least that is my experience! Please don't feel you can't come back here until you've moved on - we're all happy to share and help as much as we can! It just does take time - and I have found that I've been very up and down about it - thinking I'd moved on and then finding myself back in the 'not sure and wondering' place (although now I think I probably really have ...   but that may jsut be because I have other new things to look forward to  

I do think your plan to clear the loft of upsetting things (lets face it, someone will be really glad of them and put them to good use   ) and also doing something really nice with your spare room is a really excellent one.  We were at a similar point when I finally moved the pile of temporary junk that had accumulated out of the corner of our room where the cot 'was going to be' and put a wardrobe there instead    It was a bit of a funny day, but the room finally looked complete and I didn't wake up every day to seeing a blank space.  

Could you make it into a nice guest room, or a hobby room perhaps?  

Christmas is also a funny one.  The first year we were coming to terms with things we did rather shut ourselves away and some crying did go on   , but I'd been to see a counsellor a while before and she had helped me to be patient with myself and let myself cry. I was also very seriously ill which was horrid as I was in so much pain I couldn't sleep, but we played mah jong a lot and drank enormous amounts of very strong coffee (the only thing that made me feel any better at all) Last year I really wasn't sure I was looking forward to it but it was ok in the end.  Christmas is odd as it is feels like it is 'designed for children', but DH and I are working on finding ways of making it special for just the two of us - having our own very particular traditions and indulging in things that we enjoy  

I must say that 2 years on from 'giving up' for the first time   I can honestly say I don't have that haunting sort of 'the house is too quiet' feeling any more that used to make me so sad at the start.  My mum says she reckons it is in many ways harder to mourn for our children that never existed than it is to lose one, and whilst I'm not sure she isn't just being nice, she certainly has a point - those children are already in our hearts even though they never existed  

I hope you have a good time designing what you are going to do with your room and having a good clear out - even if it makes you cry a bit I'm sure it's the right thing to do, after all it's still little steps that are in themselves reversable, even though they are all in the direction of finally moving on - I'm quite jealous as I love redecorating    

Lots of love 

Jx


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## Bambam (Feb 14, 2008)

Hi Sonybear

As Pol says don't feel like you can't post until you've moved on as the board is designed to help people come to terms with being childless. Those of us who are now more accepting have stuck around to support people in your position and to help ourselves as we still have the odd wobble and also find comfort in chatting to kindred spirits who understand how we feel. IF is so cruel and for all those still ttc on FF they have hope but for us that has gone so we really do need continued support from each other. We know how much it hurts hon     It is a grieving process that we go through and it encompasses all the range of emotions we all know so well, anger, frustration, jealousy, such incredible sadness, guilt. I know it's hard when the crying takes hold but i am a great believer in letting it all out. The anguish is horrible but it's great you are going through that rather than bottling things up which is far worse    

I know you have decided against donor sperm and i hope you don't mind me asking but have you thought about fostering? The only reason i ask was i was really touched by something i saw on tv this week. DP and i rarely watch tv but sat down the other evening and whilst flicking through the channels got hooked on Wife Swap   A woman who didn't have children had to look after an 18 month old during the swap, she had no experience of babies but was horrified that the child had very little attention from it's mum, was fed crisps for breakfast, lived in a junk room etc.. At the end of the swap she was very upset to be leaving the little girl and as a result of the show her and her dh decided that they wanted to be able to help children that needed it through fostering. 

Another reason why i ask is because some of us have found a way to move on and have more fulfilling lives by changing jobs, moving, taking up new hobbies etc.. but some have also found that doing something very heavily connected with children has been their way of finding great happiness.

Fostering or adoption isn't the right way forward for me but one thing that i have done since stopping tx is to explore all the options just so i have peace of mind that i have considered everything and will have no regrets or what ifs later in life.

For our first xmas after stopping tx i took dp away to Paris as a surprise and we had a wonderful time. I have always been against going away at xmas but it was so great to do something completely different and i am so glad i can look back at some great and happy memories of that first xmas. One thing i will never forget is sitting drinking chicken cuppa soup for xmas lunch as everywhere was closed   

Sending you loads of hugs hon      

Amanda xx


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## Sonybear (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks so much for the replies, somehow I just feel better by hearing from people going through the same as me, always feel so alone with these things as everyone seems to have kids, but then I have thought that perhaps its just that I look out for people with kids and actually if I looked more closely there are plenty of people who dont have them.

My hubs reckons this will be the hardest time for us regards questions from others because we are considered at that 'age' he said that once we get into late forties people will stop asking such personal questions and not question the fact its just us two.  Prime example I saw a woman who I hadnt seen in about 7 years last weekend and she asked me outright do you have kids, I said no, she said 'well surely that cant be through choice!'  it so took me back that I just blurted out no we cant have them and afterwards was so cross with myself because I should have just said yes through choice as I dont want everyone in the whole world to know the real reaon why, didnt handle it well but then I was suprised she was soo rude.  Its not like you see a single friend and ask them why the hell they arent married yet and surely thats not through choice!!  so rude.

Pol thanks for the advice re the spare room, I have decided to do just as you say and it will become a second lounge somewhere for me to read away from DH watching sport and also somewhere I can get my WII Fit set up and my keyboard and have a desk for my a-level study.  Perhaps when this room has a positive use I will feel better.  Also I am going to ask my friend who has a new born whether she would take all the clothes toys etc off my hands so that I can clear the loft.

Amanda I did see that programme and it made me just so mad, that little girl was so angelic bearing in mind her mother obviously had no proper time for her!!  then at the end she was pregnant again 

Xmas will be interesting but will have to stop stressing and as you both say make it special for us, it hasnt been all about kids for the last 10 years we have been together so I am sure we can make it great.

xxxxxxxxx massive thank you, feel more happy already.


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## Pol (Mar 9, 2007)

Hello Sonybear

Your plans for the spare room sound lovely.  I've got a sort of study (I work from home at the moment, although not much longer ...! mind you then I'll be a student, but I'm going to move the furniture round so it feels different!) and one thing that I particularly like is I have some big enlargements of some pictures of a holiday DH and I went on with my parents ... really makes me feel happy to have them up around me!

Re your 'friend' - there really is no way of being ready to handle things like that, as they always come out of the blue.  Obviously the best answer would have been 'gosh, don't you think that's rather a rude thing to say?'  (said in a gentle and rather surprised tone of voice!)  For me personally, I would prefer people to know it wasn't through choice, and indeed I woudl like people to learn to be more attuned to the tragedy of infertility which effects so many people, but is such a taboo that people feel ashamed about it, when, lets face it, it's 'just' a medical condition that says nothing about you as a person.  So I feel anything I can do to make people realise what it means will hopefully mean that society will gradually stop being so insensitive ... ok I'm a bit ambitious there, but you know, every little helps   so if I just influence a few people that will be ok too!  But it's hard work, I have to say ... and some people are just too rude / self-centred / emotionaly insensitive to really 'get it'. 

And on the point Amanda made about still being involved with children in some way, maybe it's too early for you to think about, but for me the real 'moving on' point has come when I realised that my vocation was teaching.  I guess what I realised was that what most deeply upset me was the inability to influence the next generation for the better and to pass on my enthusiasm and sense of what is of value in the world.  Also my need to care - to not cut myself off but to engage with those that need help.  Obviously this is only a small part of what being a parent is, but to me it was the nub of what bothered me once I had stopped physically longing for and mourning my imagined children.  And of course it is a large part of what a teacher 'is', so I'm so excited to be starting on that path.  DH  is thinking of joining the swimming club and training as a teacher - again he gets really excited about the idea of passing on something he loves to little ones.  The only thing that is stopping him is not quite having got over his anger / sorrow at not being able to do this with his own - something that makes it hard for him to deal with fathers, especially the very self-confident sorts who are actually great fathers, really involved in the children, but have no sense at all of what it might be like to long for your own!  DH is still at the stage where he looks a bit young to have a family so he doesn't often get asked, (your DH is so right,  the age thing is also a factor!), but people assuming you will one day is just as difficult to deal with!  As Amanda says, different people find different ways of contributing, eg some ladies have taken up counselling, so not child-related but still a caring profession etc

Anyway I must go as this is turning into an essay and I'm supposed to be working!

love

Jx


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## Sonybear (Sep 8, 2008)

You are one very inspirational lady..reading your posts always make so much sense!

Feeling much better today, cleared out the loft last night and now have two big boxes of stuff to give my friend, better that she uses it rather than me letting it gather dust.

Also booked to go away for my 30th birthday in November so I have that to look forward to.

Speak soon peeps.

SBx


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## Pol (Mar 9, 2007)

Aw that's very kind of you - I'm blushing   

Well done on the sort out!  That's fab that you've really got going on making these changes so quickly and i'm glad you're feeling better.  Where are you going in November?

Jx


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## Sonybear (Sep 8, 2008)

We are staying in North Wales in a cottage, I love it there we had a camping holiday there last year and I fell in love with the place, I would live there if I could.

Have you started teaching yet Pol?  My BIL and SIL are teaching assistants and they absolutley love it, must be great to be getting into a profession you are really passionate about.

sb x


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