# Stepchildren & Infertility / TTC



## Myra

Hello

Thought it would be a nice idea to start a new thread on parenting step children, I myself have 3 step children and would love to chat about the highs and lows of being a step parent.

Would be nice to be able to offer each other support and advice from our own experiences.

Look forward to chatting to you all  

Myra xx


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## Caz

Hi there! 

Technically I am a step mother to two boys, although the youngest is 30 this year (he was 8 when DH and I got together) so probably heading into step grandparenthood soon!  I guess I am a bit of an interloper but one with some previous form!  
I am very grateful to have a very good relationship with my stepsons, and a reasonably good relationship with their mother - it wasn't always like that though, but ultimately it's been a huge advantage and made things very much easier all round. 

Looking forward to dipping in and chatting from time to time. 

C~x


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## Myra

Hi Caz

You are still a step mum no matter how old they are  

I have 3 step children, a 13 year old girl and also girl twins that are 8, I am currently not having a relationship with the children as the eldest one will not have anthing to do with me, which makes me really sad as I am sure we could become friends if only she would let me.

She is very jealous of me with her dad and does not like me around when she is with him, this causes lots of problems as DP will not let me see the twins either, he does not want to split them up as he feels that this will cause issues between his children....not sure how to move forward with this, hoping that she will just change her mind and want to see me, not sure how likely that is though.

Hope to hear from other step parents  

Myra xxx


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## Vickytick

Hi 

I think this is a great idea as its good to chat to people who are ttc for a child of their own but are a mother by proxy almost.

My DH has a 5 1/2 year old son we've been together nearly 3 years and ttc for just over 2 now. I've just had my first IVF BFN and it hit me for six at the same time we are having problems with my DH ex who seems to resent me and have an issue with me. She won't allow me to pick up or take their son to school on the days that we have him simply because she would miss the other mums. I'm not interested in striking up a relationship with the other mums I'll do that with my own child it just means my DH can spend time with his son but still get to work on time - its literally 15 mins we are talking about. She won't even allow me to look after their son for an hour before my DH gets home from work. But she has a new partner whom lives with her and he is allowed to take my DH son to school,  watch his sports day , take him swimming lessons, look after him whilst she goes out.

I know I have to learn to step aside and just ignore it but she is making this all personal about me yet she knows we had a m/c in Dec at 12 weeks and will have to have IVF (she doesn't know the specifics). I've never done anything wrong and I don't want to be his mother he has one whom he loves dearly. All I want is my own child but she is making me question my ability to be a mother which is breaking my heart.

x


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## Myra

Hi Vicky

Welcome hun....Its very difficult dealing with step children and the ex, I personally don't have that problem, mine is the daughter resenting me although I met DP along time after he separated from his ex, he is now divorced, I am still married but my husband left me 3 years ago for another women, we had a couple of goes at IVF, ours was male factor and as I am now over 40 I think my TTC days are over although I did get pg off new partner over a year ago but it ended in a miscarriage in the 7th week, think my eggs are to old now.

It must be difficult for you knowing that the ex has a new partner whom she allows to spend time with her son, I do hope that she will eventually allow you to spend some time with her son and you and your DH can have some quality time with him, he is at a perfect age for him to get used to you, he is still very young and I am sure would enjoy spending time with you and his dad.

Keep posting hun and we can share our experiences, hopefully we will get some other step parents posting so we can share and offer each other support.

Whatever is happening don't let it question your abilities to be a mummy, you know that you would make a great mum, even the fact that you are wiling to support DH with his son, makes you a great person so you hold onto that and know that things always change and I am sure there will be a point when she will be happy for you to have her son, even if it is just so she gets a break.

Take care and hope to chat somemore  

Myra xxx


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## Scouse

I sometimes wish my dh's ex did have a partner - takes the heat off me if you know what I mean!  I've never been invited / allowed to attend any birthday party for the last 7 years and my biggest fear is I won't be invited to their weddings!!!!!!!  (I know it's a long time off!)  I keep praying that when they are adults they will hopefully choose to have me in their lives more than i am now!
However I'm not sure if it's 'her' keep us separate or it's dh not asking as he doesn't want to 'upset the apple cart'


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## Myra

Scouse...

Welcome hun, I feel the same as you as my DPs ex does not have a partner either and I find that this is not helping my situation, I am coming across as the wicked step mum...

I find things really difficult as i can not attend any family functions, whether it be with the children or even when DPs family come to stay, I have to head back to my own place, which I find really upsetting, me and DP don't live together, although he is quite happy to have me stay at his and play the perfect couple when his kids are not involved...this i find hard to cope with, I get angry with DP as sometimes I feel that he says nothing as he wants an easy life, i am not sure how he will cope when his ex does meet a new man and he will have to contend with another man in his children's life, he says now that he is ok about it but not sure how he will be when the reality hits him and his kids are sharing their lives with another man..
DP is currently living two separate lives...one with me and one with his family and kids, not really sure to be honest how much longer I can cope with this without saying how I really feel, I have tried to approach this with him, but he accuses me of making him choose between his children and me and that is so not the case...I never get in the way of his relationship with his kids but sometimes I feel that he does not even consider my feelings...

Keep posting hun...its nice to be able to get our emotions out to others that understand  

Love Myra xx


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## Scouse

Oh Myra your words ring a true resonance with me - as clear as a clanging bell!
They do have separate lives - with kids and without!
Mine is not quite as bad as we are married so if he has kids they do come here - but not reguarly.  He finds it easier to have them in their own home where all their toys are.
If I have learnt anything, you have to talk about these issues.  I never used to and then every now and again my jealousy/ frustrations used to burst open and cause major upset.  However I do let an awful lot go by as it's just not worth the rows.  
My husband has a very burnt    from having his head buried so deep in the sand!  He doesn't like confrontation with me, his ex or , especially with his kids.
I've always said there's my dh's priority list includes 1 - kids  2 - work - 3- chocolate and fruit pastilles  4 - me
Altho that used to be said as a joke, there are threads of truth!  BUT I knew what I signed up for when we married and I have to remember he is with me after choosing to leave them altho he sees them 6 days a week ( he didn't really 'leave' his ex as he never loved her - she got pregnant after 3 MONTHS and he decided he had to 'DO THE RIGHT THING') but she feels he abandoned her as she never worked and he had bought the house so she was a full time mum with her future paid for!  Now altho she lives in a 'free' house and has maitenance paid, she does work now!
Sorry, never meant to pour all that out........ but we both work full time and after tx, up to our necks in debt !
Cor this is just like therapy!  Finding like minded people.........


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## Spotter

Hi Ladies
I'm a step mum to an 8 yr old girl and 15 yr old boy.  I get on really well with the children and we have them every week and take them abroad on holiday once a year.  I don't have the problem of not being allowed to see the children - infact quite the opposite!  "She" wants rid of them at any opportunity she can get so wants us to have them as much as possible !!  She's a nasty piece of work and I have nothing to do with her - but I do fetch/drop off kids when DH can't and have them on my own if he's working etc !! I didn't split them up they were already parting and she had made him have vasectomy after their daughter (obviously thinking at least when they split he can't have children with anyone else - that's how thick she is !)  Anyway as you will see from my signature - we had our first ICSI cycle and was very lucky to get a BFP and am now 21 wks !  We didn't tell the children until after the 12 week scan and then all hell let loose !!  The vicious texts being sent to DH asking who the donor was as it was impossible to be his blah blah blah and what a disgusting man he is wanting to bring up somebody elses child rather than his own !!  (Er, hello we bring your children up - you drag them up !!!)  She also told the children (yes even the 8 year old) that it won't be their brother/sister as it's not their dads baby    Ooh don't get me started I could be here all day with the vile things she's done/said over the last 5 years !!  But in brief that's my story and looking forward to chatting and getting any tips of other step mums !!! x


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## Scouse

OMG Spotter what a b****!  What is her problem - seeing her ex happy and settled in a loving relationship?  Those children are lucky to have you!  Congratulations on your pregnancy - now you'll know what it's like to be a 'real mum'
Unfort we had 4 failed tx and been trying 7 years - now it's time to call it!  I have to be settled with being the wicked step mum!
My dh has gone to see his children but is in 'a mood' cos he has to tell them/ their mum he won't see them til Tues as we're going away for the weekend  I often feel the 'power' is def not on 'our' side!


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## Myra

Hi Spotter..

Welcome hun..congratulations on your pg, as for ex...well you enjoy your pg and look forward to your little one arriving, she will never be able to take that away from you hun, she is just jealous hence all the nasty comments.

Hi Scouse...how are you hun?
My DP has just spent the last fortnight on an exotic holiday with his kids, me being the wicked step mum was not allowed to go...he is back tomorrow and I will have to sit through the whole story of the holiday and the dreaded holiday pictures...I will try to act interested but I am so not.

Keep strong girls  

Myra xxx


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## Scouse

Myra b**** hell how do you do it
That's not fair!
You need to sort this out - you have missed out on such an opportunity to bond and relax!

Sorry that sounded so blunt but i'm really    and    on your behalf!  I hope their return isn't too traumatic/ boring/ upsetting!
Will be thinking of you and everyone else - it's not an easy game is it!


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## Vickytick

Ladies everything you say is resonating with me.

Myra - I cannot believe that they go away whilst you stay at home I'm gobsmacked tbh. Is there a school these women go to on how to make innocent women's lives hell

Spotter - Congrats on being PG that is brillant news at least the kids have prepared you in some way. I can't believe that they would say that about him. It sounds like massive jealously that he has moved on with his life. I cannot believe that they would tell an 8 year old something like that. 

In a weird way you are lucky that you are 'allowed' to look after them. My DH son stays with us every other weekend and one night during the week but I'm NOT allowed to drop him at school or pick him up or even look after him until his Dad gets home. No she'd rather he went to a school club (he is 5 years old) than be in his home - which our house technically is with his own toys and room. I don't understand it and I don't suppose I ever will really. My DH is not allowed to go to his son's birthday parties apparently he lost that right when he left her (after she was playing away) and any appts she takes her new partner as well so there is the three of them sat in a doctors room...go figure. I actually have a good relationship with my DH son as I've been with my DH for nearly 3 years and I'm the only woman that he's seen his Dad with (they split when he was 1 yr). I'm not sure what will happen when we have our own child. I'm sure we will get the usual - don't forget you have a child comments. Its tough as I've always maintained that if all this fails (I hope it doesn't) we will make some life changes but we would have to take into account his son. Like you some of the things that have been said to my DH son especially over the last year are astounding tbh and to use a child in this way is appalling.  He keeps asking  why my DH and his mum split up and he watches their wedding video (she lives with her new partner and has his baby). Its all very strange and sometimes its sooo difficult especially when ttc for your own in the midst of it all.

This thread is a great idea and its good to speak to other ladies who are in a similar situation.

V
x


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## Spotter

Thanks Ladies for the congrats !!!!!

Scouse - yeah I think it is jealousy !  We always get the problems when she's single as well - when she has a bloke to occupy her she lays off a bit but apparently she's just been dumped again (I wonder why?!) so she's in a foul mood !!  Also the kids prefer it at ours 'cos we do things with them and take them places and you won't believe this but they spend all the time at her house in their bedrooms other than nipping to Morrisons or into the local town - that is it !!!  She has NEVER taken them anywhere else !!!!!!  It's unbelievable !!!! I'm sorry to hear of your failed tx's - I know I'm sooooo lucky to be where I am as we couldn't have afforded anymore goes !  Oh it's very rare we get a weekend off the abuse we get if we're going to miss one just isn't worth the aggro sometimes !!!  Normally we would go away tho' just the 2 of us in September when schools are back - but don't think we'll bother this year - need to save our pennies for baby things !

Myra - WHAT? I can't believe they've been away without you !!  It's so hard tho' isn't it and I do feel for our DH's who are just trying to keep the peace and please everyone !!  

Vickytick - it's just madness isn't it that the stupid woman would rather her child go to a school club than be at his home !!  What is it with these women ?? And like you say the way they use the children as well is just disgusting !!  In saying that tho' the kids had a good discussion with DH the other week and I think they've both got wise to their mum now and know not to believe anything she tells them !!  She said we don't want them we just have them because it's our duty too and that DH is a rubbish father !!  Well the way he idolises them and them in return we all know that's not true !!  

Scouse - you're right it's not an easy game !!!!  xxxxxx


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## Vickytick

Its most certainly not and one again I've almost been in tears today as she seems to have upped her vendetta against me. My DH called her today to discuss their son because he is saying he doesn't want to go to mummy's house when with us and we are worried he is feeling unsettled. He is suddenly asking lots of questions about why they are not together and why can't he stay at home with him mum like his half sister does. He even, allegedly, told his mum (my DH ex) that my ex wanted to get back with her - he's 5 so its all getting out of hand. My DH asked why she keeps trying to stop me helping out with their son and all she can say is because I won't talk to her. Wrongly or rightly I'm a firm believer in that the conversations should be between my DH and his ex and I should not get involved. I'll look after their son as well as I can in my house but I never see his ex because my DH picks him up and drops him off. She then made some comment about me ignoring her parents when they dropped him off (the only time they've ever done it some time last year!!)  I was in a different room why would I want to talk to her parents. But then she got nasty and made a comment about I wouldn't want her to pick up my children. My DH saw red and just said that is nasty because I'm struggling to have children. Her answer don't be stupid you know you'll have children and everyone has things to deal with. Really when did she become a doctor and does that mean I'm just going through IVF for the fun of it!. This is the woman who had an abortion 18 months ago because she didn't see the relationship going anywhere only to get pg again 9 months later and now living with the man. She can't see that there is a real chance I could be childless but I'm exaggerating according to her. I'm not sure she knows how old I am (I look alot younger than 37) and thinks I have years to go. She has threatened to stop my DH seeing his son on the agreed Wed and says she allows him to see his son. 

I'm really at my wits end  Its at the point where I almost feel like walking away from everything my marriage (of 3 months!) and ttc. I can't cope with constantly been battered and my family are sick of me talking about her they say that's all I ever talk about. But she is eating away at my life.  I didn't sign up to be some sort of target for her abuse. My DH doesn't stand up to her enough and wants to do things the 'proper' way she seems to still control him and I hate him for it it makes him so weak.

Sorry to be a downer but this is tearing me apart now


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## Scouse

Oh Vicky you sound so desperately sad and alone!  Can't really offer advice but can offer support!
You and dh need some time away to 'reconnect' and remember why you love each other - away from the day to day s***  (that's exactly what we're doing this weekend - off to strafford )
And I certainly wouldn't let 'her' drive a wedge between you.  don't give her the satisfaction.
Remember she's playing a game because she isn't happy - she can see you're happy together and you make her son happy!  That's why she's attacking you!  She is using her son as a pawn in a game of chess.  But remember chess is a long, drawn out game when the 'thinker' wins every time.
Try to love dh, continue to be good to his child and ignore the ex ( I KNOW that is so much easier said than done!)
Good luck X
Myra how was your 'reunion'?
Spotter you just concentrate on that miracle growing inside you!


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## Spotter

Vicky - oh hun I know exactly how you feel !!  We had kids over weekend then they went to DH's parents for couple days as they wanted to take them out and we were taking them back to "hers" tonight - but she's decided we've not had them enough over the holidays so we're to keep them until Sunday other wise we can have them all next week instead !!  Er, well hello b**** face I wish you'd stop trying to organise everyone elses life for them !!  Me and DH were supposed to be going Cinema tonight (first time in months we've been out) so our plans get changed yet again to suit her !!  I totally agree that these men should stand up more to their ex's - why is it always us that has to shut up and put up ?!  I too was fuming earlier and thought I can't live like this anymore - every week it's a battle with her over times of dropping kids off etc and it's just wearing me out !

However, now I've calmed down I agree with Scouse and we shouldn't let the  s get to us (which is exactly what they're plan is) and make this rift with our DH's !!  She has told my DH she's going to ruin him and everything he's got and this is her way as she knows it will be getting to me  .

In hindsight I suppose we could have had the kids more over these 6 weeks but it's the way she decides and sorts it out for us (she's obviously struck lucky with her internet dating and wants kids out of her way for an extra few nights !!!)

This is a good place to vent your anger and it's slightly comforting to know it's not just me getting the grief (although I am sorry for you as I wouldn't wish the wrath of an ex on anybody).  Hope you're feeling a bit better now and you know where to come to let it all out !!  xx

Scouse - yes my little miracle is my priority which is why I shouldn't let myself get so stressed about it all - he's even kicking me whilst writing this   x


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## Vickytick

Thanks Ladies you have no idea how much it helps letting it all out to people who understand in a 'safe' environment. Everyone tells me ignore her just concentrate on your goals and dreams and she is jealous. You are so right her aim is to split us so she wins as DH will be able to drop everything again. I don't think she can believe he left her tbh thinks he has a cheek.  I will definitely make an effort with DH tonight when he gets home - he can even watch the footie on the telly  

Spotter - it must be lovely knowing you will be able to see your own baby in a few months and he's letting you know he is there. After all the heartache you have something wonderful to look forward to. xx

Thanks again ladies have a good evening.
xx


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## Spotter

Vicky - That's the way to go hun - we won't let these b****es drag us down !!!  Have a lovely evening with DH ! 

Yes I've had a pretty rubbish time of it over the years so to finally have my own baby in my arms is a dream come true and nothing's going to spoil that ! xx


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## Biriyani

Myra - thank you for setting up the thread - looks like it's going to be really useful!

I'm feeling bad now, though, as I requested the thread but my situation seems to be much easier than everyone else's.  I have 2 DSDs aged 14 and 12 (met them when they were 7 and 5), and we have them with us for almost half of each week.  I get on fine with their mum, who has re-married and has 2 more children.  In fact, I'm really lucky - both parents put the kids first, so they don't create arguments or make unreasonable demands on each other.

My issue is  that I am finally 33 weeks PG (hoorah!) after 4 years trying and 3 TX, but my DH really isn't all that up for it - even now, he keeps mentioning how hard it's going to be, how horrendous the sleepless nights are and so on.  It's really frustrating, and I slightly feel that I've pushed him into it.  He doesn't seem to realise just how much effort I've put into getting to know his children over the years - he enjoys the freedom of not having children for the whole of each week.  I keep pointing out that I lost freedom by getting together with him (as in, I used to be able to do what I wanted all week, whereas now I'm a parent half the week.  I'm really happy to do that, but it was quite a challenge when I realised I had fertility issues, as I couldn't decide if I'd got the best or the worst of both worlds!).  Every time I mention the challenges of being a step parent, he says the issues are the same if you are a parent.  Hmmmm...

I don't think I'm being very clear here.  Anyay, it's great to have some people to talk to about the issues.  Myra, the one thing I'd say to you is why are your DSD's parents letting her be in charge of the situation??

Looking forward to getting to know you all!

B x


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## Vickytick

*Biriyani* - Firstly huge congrats  on your pg at long last its stories like yourselves that keep me going as I have to believe its going to work otherwise I'd send myself over the edge . Not long to go now do you know the sex or is that going to be a surprise?

Secondly *OMG *I feel exactly like you about the whole step child parenting thing. I couldn't have put it better myself so yes you were clear. I actually have people say to me well you've got a child - eh no he's not mine and he has a mum who loves him just has a weird idea of what makes a good parent! But I know what you mean about the best or worst of both worlds. If I adopt I appreciate the child won't be biologically mine but they will rely on me for love and care and will call me mummy and that is my ultimate dream. As you've said its tougher being a step parent because you are expected to just become a part timer carer and switch it on and off when they come round to stay.

You didn't say how old you were but is it an age thing with your DH does he think he's been out of the 'baby game' for too long as your step children are teenagers now and he's worried how he'll cope ?

I was just wondering where everybody was in the country as sometimes its good to meet face to face ??

Hello to Spotter and Scouse. I hope the holidays stories weren't too much Myra 

xx


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## Scouse

Hi all just wanted to see how Myra got on post holiday return (not hers unfort)
But hello to everyone else too!  Enjoy your long w/e X


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## jimjam183

Hi ladies, 

May I join you on this one? I've been reading your thread and am gobsmacked at how many of us there are in such similar situations!!

I too am a stepmum to a 10 year old boy. I got together with his father 6 years ago. My DH left his ex as she had had a long affair, which continued even after DH found out and had tried to work at their marriage on the condition the affair was over. Well the affair continued so he chose to leave. 
Since leaving her 7 years ago, he has had regular contact with his son every Wednesday overnight and every other weekend fri-sun and more time over holidays. He's a wonderful father and dotes on his son. I think access isn't made difficult for him as it suits her to have weekends to herself!!

Her relationship with the other man ended as soon as ours started, and tbh I don't think she ever expected my DH to move on! We too have had our fair share of games from her. She poisons my SS against me and sometimes his dad too. My SS is also told that his dad left his mum for me and that his dad loves me more than him. My DH and his ex are Scottish and I am Asian. Of course perhaps my style of cooking is going to be quite different to what my SS was originally used to, but after gentle perseverance he has grown to love it... God forbid he tells his mum he enjoyed a meal at our home as she will go on to tell him no wonder he stinks of garlic and curry when he returns home to her!!! Those are the kinds of silly games that go on with us, and of course it also has a knock on effect on my stepsons behaviour and attitude! He must feel really torn at times. 

Like many of you, it has been a 6 year battle to bond with my stepson. Its hard when you've had no experience of parenting. My SS was 4 when I came into his life, and I already knew I couldn't concieve naturally due to years of chemotherapy in the past and an early menopause at 24. I had only been with my DH for a few months and even then it was hard to watch him be a father. I even at times felt sick with resentment that my DH shared all those special parenting moments with his ex and his son, and might never do with me. 

I got involved very slowly in my stepsons life. Partly for my own selfish reasons. I was only 25 when I met him, and found him exhausting!!! He very much ruled the roost in my DHs home!!! So it started of slowly with him just knowing me as "daddy's friend" who popped round for tea, and I stayed over for the first time 6 months after! I moved in with DH only 3 years ago and we married last summer. 

Things on the whole have really improved with stepson over the last few years, and I think being able to spend time alone with him helps. We bond much better when he isn't fighting for his fathers attention. I think its very cruel that some of your stepkids mums won't allow for you to be alone with your stepkids, and I suspect it's down to them not wanting you to have any sort of a bond with them. Trying to drive a wedge between us and our stepkids achieves the goal of driving a wedge between us and our partners!!!

DH and I have had 2 cycles of donor egg IVF in Barcelona since we married. The ex and stepson don't know we have probs TTC. The treatment and BFNs were taking their toll on our relationship, and yet again I started to resent my stepson. We've had a break from it since Feb, and I've tried to use that time to bond with my stepson, and enjoy being with my DH. I fully understand how hard it is to find something in common with kids of that age! (the topic of food usually does the trick with mine!!) 

Like many of you, the ex causes more grief when she's not with anyone (which is the case right now!)

Well, we are just on the brink of starting another cycle (waiting for AF to arrive in next day or so to start my lining prep), so I'm worried about tensions building. It's particularly a problem when it comes to flying out for our ET as we only have 2 days notice from the clinic, and if it happens to fall when we're meant to have my stepson, I may have to go alone as the ex is not so cooperative. My parents have offered to mind him for us but I'm not sure she'll agree to that! (particularly when her more recent agument is that she wants us to pay for him to go to private school as the local secondary school is "full of ethnic minorities!"... Yes she actually said that to my DH on Friday in front of my stepson!!!).... So I'm not sure she'll let him stay at my parents and she won't mind him herself when it's meant to be our time with him!!

Wow! Long rant... Sorry! 

I'm really looking forward to getting to know you all. I really admire you for what you're all going through and what we have to put up with! I'm just so glad I'm not alone! Especially with ths fear of ending up childless and the worry of our partners perhaps never knowing what we're going through. Such a lonely feeling :-(

Lots of love to you all, and thanks for being there!

Jimjam xxx


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## Vickytick

*JimJam* - Welcome to the thread under no circumstances worry that you are ranting - quite honestly its what helps us all the most. That and the fact finally (well for me) I've found like minded souls, those going both through the anguish of IVF/ttc and having a step child in your life. TTC is hard enough without the added pressure of being led to believe (by bitter exes) that we are not competent enough to look after their precious child. Its something that no-one can truly understand until you've been through it. Its awful that your DH ex is behaving the way she is especially the discriminate comments she making about you is hardly a positive way to behave in front of her son. I actually think you hit the nail on the head with your comment about 'moving on'. I believe that my DH ex problem is that my DH is happy with me and has moved on. She behaved inappropriately whilst they were married and used to say to him you'll never leave - that's how perfect she thinks she is - well he did and met me. Sounds like that is your DH ex problem as well they feel threatened and are jealous that in the most part we are all happy - and are dealing with the problems that life is throwing at us.

I wish you the best of luck with your cycle and truly hope it works for you this time and hope to hear from you.

xx


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## Caz

Hello all. Sorry I am only dipping in sporadically because I'm pretty much the "possible future" you all have ahead of you - stepsons grown up and family relationships between us all (including the ex) couldn't be better. It most certainly was not always like that and I did used to called her the "wicked Witch of The North" at one point. She never made things particularly difficult. There was one point she broke up with her boyfriend (the man she's been having an affair with that broke up the marriage) and more or less emotionally blackmailed my DH (then DP) to try and get him back together with her "for the kids sake" with the threat that she's move herself and them 200 miles up North if he didn't go back...  Needless to say DH chose not to and she did, in fact, take the kids away which was very difficult; for the first few years of my marriage I had to wave DH goodbye on the early hours of Christmas Day so he could spend it with his kids and EX wife... . He went up and down the motorway a lot back then and stayed away a lot. I rarely went with simply because he was always staying with his ex and, um, no ta!  When I think of it now... lucky I wasn't the jealous type! 
That was always quite hard but as they got older and had more control over their lives they made choices to spend time with/without either parent. The elder son actually came to uni down here and lived with us for a few years while he did and it was a chance for him and DH (and me) to all grow closer. The younger is/was still more distant, largely due to geography and being a lot younger at the split. By no means a bad relationship but he was not particularly close to his dad and it probably closer to me!

These days we do all get along pretty great - yes including his first wife who invited us both to her second wedding (couldn't go because DS was a tiny baby at the time) and she came to DH's big birthday bash last year. I don't (and never have) felt like a mum to my stepsons, but I certainly feel that they are part of my family and that they are my DS's brothers and I know they feel the same. I am actually very grateful we do all get along so well these days as it has made things easier all round. I think that as time passes and people grow a bit more secure in the lives of the new family structure that the tight reigns that mothers place on their children and access to the new woman (i.e. us) does lessen. Things may be difficult now but with time and patience you will prove yourself and your DH's ex's won't feel so threatened by your influence on their child. There's only so long that ex wives can control their children and sooner or later they are going to want to have that control themselves. 

The other thing to bear in mind is that children are not stupid. Their mums can share or spread whatever disinformation that wish about you and your relationship with their father, but when it comes to it, they will work it out for themselves. They will make the decisions in the long run, and, ultimately, if they like you, it'll be their mum who has to haggle with them and constantly make the excuses why you can't be around them... if that makes sense. The ex may have no choice but to come round in the end, or risk alienating her own child. I know it does not always work out like that but if you are consistent I think this helps. 
I do think some men need to grow a set and stand up to their exes. If SHE has a new partner who is allowed to spend time with and do things with their child, then YOU should be too. No question about that. I can understand why DHs don't want to rock the boat though, particularly if the divorce was not amicable and there's still bad feeling, but it's just ridiculous not to expect him to want you in his child's life if you are married/living together. There's only one reason why an ex would do that IMO, and that because they want to still exercise control/influence over your DH/DP. how sad that she feels she needs to. 

Anyway, I hope that my story can bring you a little bit of hope that however hard it may be now, it may not always be that hard.  

C~x


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## Myra

Hi Ladies

Sorry been extra busy this weekend...welcome all the new ladies  

Will catch up properly with you all soon..

Scouse...will fill you in on all the holiday details when I post properly, got friends coming today so won't get chance to get on apart from checking my boards.

Myra xxx


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## jimjam183

Cas,

What you say makes a lot of sense and thanks for your reassuring post! Sounds like you've been through so much and I really admire you! I hope, like you say in the end our step kids end up figuring things for themselves, and that one day the ex will move on and be happy (or at least let go!!). 

I've just started on my lining prep hormones today so it's all go from here. Lining scan next Monday and then awaiting the phone call to fly put to Barcelona for our ET. We only get 2 days notice for that.... So possible issues if it happens when we're meant to have DHs son as we end up having to drop everything and go. Last time DHs parents came from Scotland to mind him while we were away. We don't have that option this time. 

Do any of the ex partners in your DHs lives know you're having fertility treatment? How are you finding that? Is it easier if they know? Or does it make things worse?

So far we've kept our IVF a secret. Only our parents know. Stepson keeps asking when we're going to have a baby and I tend to just say "all in good time". 

Love jimjam xx


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## Biriyani

Hi all, 


Hope you had a great bank holiday weekend!  We had a nice one making a few preparations for the baby (can't believe I'm saying that!) - it's easy to motivate yourself when it's freezing outside!


I love this thread - finally a bunch of people in similar situations!


Vickytick - I think for DH it's a case of getting to the point with his first 2 kids where they are fairly independent, and we can start to look to our future together, but instead we are starting again from the beginning (he's 43, so not ridiculous but not all that young).  I don't think he realises (as my parents have discovered) that children never really go away!  I suspect his kids will decide that living at home through Uni will be a nice cheap option...I do feel a bit bad, actually, as he's being really lovely during the pregnancy and I feel really looked after - it's just that he can't seem to stop himself reminding me how horrendous it's going to be!!


Jimjam - I hope the start of your treatment is going well.  Sounds like you've got some big challenges on your hands at the moment - I can't believe those comments about "too many ethnic minorities"!!!!  I suppose you've just got to sit quietly on the high moral ground - she's probably just testing you out.


Now then - what do you think about this?  DH's ex has offered us her cot and pushchair!!  They are both really nice ones (one of the reasons they split up was that she spent money they didn't have on things they didn't need...), and I can't believe it.  DH thought it might be a bit weird, but we've decided to go for it in the end.


Speaking of which, it's the elder one's birthday party this weekend.  It's our weekend (and usually it's pretty strict) but she's decided she'd rather have the sleepover part at her mum's.  She definitely prefers it there, which I sometimes find really difficult.  Luckily the younger one seems to prefer it with us, so I can reassure myself we're not just horrendous "parents".  


Right - must go - I'm in charge of the two of them today while DH is at work.  Not that they'll be up for hours yet...


By the way, I'm in South Yorkshire...


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## Scouse

Just a quickie as not long been back from a weekend in stratford - just the 2 of us!  And we had the 'talk' - I told dh I didn't want to go thro tx again - his answer was he agreed with whatever decision i made (well he would wouldn't he - he has 2 children of his own) but he felt sad for me!    That made me sad.  But he also said that noone else understood how traumatice our last tx was (after being rushed into hosp with un diagnosed ohss)
So it's time to concentrate on 'us' !
Biriyani - must be nice to have a reasonable relationship with the ex - and as the saying goes- @don't look a gift horse in the mouth'
jimjam best of luck with your tx.
Myra look forward to hearing the details......... i just hope you can all move forward after this
Everyone else 'chins up' and best foot forward!


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## Vickytick

Hi Ladies.

Well I've just got back from a few days in Isle of Wight with DH and stepson we've never ventured abroad yet I think that might be asking too much of me. TBH I was glad to get home it sounds awful but we all shared a room in a hotel and I just felt it was too much. I worry that it means that I'll be an awful mother if I have to adopt and I can't be truly maternal but I'm sure underneath it doesn't. I think his mother treats him like a baby and he expects us to do the same but I treat him no different to my niece who is the same age and expect the same levels of behaviour - my mum brought my sisters and I up to be very polite with good manners ie excuse me when talking, no getting down from the table unless you ask etc. But he doesn't seem to have the most basic manners which he should at least be developing as he is 6 in Nov. He also expects to be doing what he wants and we got the mummy lets me do what I want, mummy buys me this, mummy does that and you're wrong...constantly. I felt like saying I don't b****y care what mummy does. I know he is playing one off against the other but some of its true she really does tell him she is right and Daddy is wrong.

We had one issue with my DH ex when his son informed him that his mother had told him he had to share his time with Daddy with her partner. Daddy took him to the cars film so her partner took him to Batman show with two of his friends and their Dads. My DH went mad because you can't tell a child he has to share his time with another man and my DH would have willing gone with him if only to meet the other Dad's - every effort we have made to meet his friends with the intention of inviting them around has been thwarted one way or another. Her partner even gave his own daughter back early to her mother to go with my DH son. This from a woman who won't let me look after her son for 1 hour!!!!

*Sorry rant over*. No-one else truly understands what its like and if I dare to suggest it to another person its as though I am the wicked witch of the west and unfit to be a mother but these people (even his aunts and grandmother) don't see him for more than 2 hours so don't know what its like. I'm wary of ever making a negative comment for fear of it jeopardising adoption in the future (we would like to adopt even if we have our own child as a way of giving back). No such thing as a safe environment.

*Jimjam183* - the ex knew about the m/c and we were having trouble but after her recent 'you know you'll have children' comment we have kept everything hidden. She knows we are struggling but not the exact timings of what we are doing. His son is too young to understand what it all means so we haven't even bothered. I just say if Daddy and Vicky are lucky enough to have a child of their own. etc.

*Scouse* - sorry to hear you've made the decision not to go again but I can understand. Its tough going so you have to do what is best for you. Enjoy the 'us' time.

*Biriyani *- It would be weird accepting the pram etc but if you have a good enough relationship take it it saves you money and why shouldn't you benefit. My DH ex used the pram etc he brought for their son for her new baby - we will have to buy everything from stratch if it happens. You're lucky to be left with them as well at least you can build a relationship on merit rather than as Dad's other half.

*Myra* - Hope all is well with you

*Caz* - you speak alot of sense and I do hope that in ten years time I can say the same as you. I don't want to be best friends just sick of all the back biting and tension that its all created over one child. My DH loves his son to bits but sometimes - at his *very lowest* points - he says life might have been easier if he had not had him because of all the probs his ex causes us but mainly him.

xx


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## Biriyani

Vickytick - I just wanted to reassure you that you're not horrible not wanting to share a room with DH's little one - I've always been really funny about that, and the couple of times we have all been in one room, I have completely hated it and had no sleep whatsoever.  I'm not sure what it is, exactly - I just think it's beyond the limits of being a step parent.  DH seems to understand now (I'm not sure he did before), and we haven't all shared a room for ages - luckily the girls are getting a bit old for that, anyway.  I'm assuming that it doesn't mean I'll be like that with my own child!


Had an "I hate step-parenting" day yesterday.  Just one of those where the confidence seems to completely disappear for some reason.  It was the older one's birthday party (a photo shoot (!) followed by a sleepover).  Anyway, it's our weekend, but we are simply not cool enough, so she wanted the sleepover at her mum's.  Fair enough - not sure I'm up for 8 14-year-olds anyway.  But our house was just somewhere for her friends to gather prior to the photo shoot, as the place is round the corner from us.  I'd not met 4 of them before, and they just looked through me.  There were no introductions, not even a 'hello'.  Then DSD's mum arrived, and it was all "Oh mum - come upstairs and see us!" etc...  I hid in the lounge and cried - just felt very small.  I think it could be partly PG hormones, but also feeling a bit used.  DH mentioned it to his ex, and she reappeared 10 minutes later with some flowers for me!!  So I really can't complain - I am well supported.  I think it's just that a 14-year-old can manage to make me feel rubbish.  As DH pointed out, he was also completely ignored...


There - sorry about that long rant!  Hope everyone else is OK this weekend.  Personally, I'm looking forward to the DSDs getting back into the school routine.


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## Biriyani

Oh my goodness, Lindz - and there's me feeling sorry for myself because a couple of DSD's friends weren't very friendly to me!  Sounds like you've got a major challenge on your hands there - and it's not even that you haven't managed to say how you feel.  

It sounds like of the two difficult options you want to gradually build a relationship with DH's son - maybe since DH doesn't want to talk feelings, you could make a plan instead (I know blokes like a good bit of problem solving!).  I don't know - could you insist that DH brings his son home for lunch one time instead of going to his cousin's?  Or that you meet up in the park for an hour?  Just something small first (but deliberate - must have been a nightmare for your first meeting to be an accident).

Sorry - that's probably not very helpful, but I didn't want to ignore your post as it sounds like you've got it really tough xxx


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## Scouse

Lindz I'm going to be rather blunt now - but your dh should be thinking of your feelings aswell as his sons'.  What you have been thro and about to go thro again (you brave, brave lady) he should be supporting you!
You need to tell him you are not a threat and you all belong to his family so spending time together is normal.  There more he avoids it the worse it will become especially WHEN you become pregant.
Men don't like confrontation but by avoiding you and dss creating a bond will only cause more problems in the future.

There must be a beach somewhere with all these           waving in the air where all these men are hiding their heads in the sand!

Rant over - good luck - you deserve to be happy!


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## Vickytick

I really feel like I've come home when I log onto this thread..so thanks ladies.

*Lindz* I can't help but agree with Scouse ignoring the need for you and your dss to have a relationship is silly and asking for trouble in years to come. What happens when he gets married or has a child of his own are you still going to be expected to be on the sidelines and not perform some form or role in the child's life? The child is old enough now to understand and work out what everyone's role is within the family. He must have friends in a similar boat surely?? I will say that I do understand your concern over DE we have one more 'me' cycle then we might have to consider that and I too worry about whether I will bond if that happens.

[*b]Biriyani* - thank you for making me feel less like the wicked step mother it does help to know others feel the same. I'm sure that dsd was probably being a typical teenager and your hormones have a terrible ability to make you feel upset at the most stupid things. Nice of her mum to give you the flowers though brownie points for her. 

*JimJam* - How's the tx going ??

*Scouse* - Hope you are feeling okay and more content with your decision.

Hello to anyone I've missed.

x


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## Scouse

Vicky I'm back at work and haven't the time or energy to stress about 'our' / my decision!  I can honestly say it does feel like a weight has been lifted.  Not to say I don't still pray for a miracle but just know I can't cycle again!
Lindz hope I wasn't too blunt - i become very protective of friends very quickly and don't think you are being treated right.  But each to their own and I know i put up with stuff that years ago i wouldn't have stood for - but it makes life easier in the short term!
|Everyone else.........hope you are all welll!


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## ~Lindz~

Biryani, Scouse and Vickytick  Thanks for your support, and don't worry about being too blunt.  Maybe I should accidentally leave this thread open on screen for DH to have a look... it might give him a wake up call!  Mind you, he'd probably get p*ssed off about me "airing my dirty laundry in public" as he calls it.  Unfortunately DH thinks feelings are for wimps, won't discuss emotive issues with me and tends to play ostrich until the problems get too much.  I love him and have been with him 7 years now, but I'm used to having a partner that I can share feelings and talk about issues with rather than someone who bottles up emotions and gets angry, so sometimes I feel quite alone.  Thanks for being here ladies, I feel so much better just having a place to rant, and knowing that there are people out there who have been through similar things and who understand.  

Lindz xxx

PS - I love the "WHEN you become pregnant" positive thinking, Scouse!


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## jimjam183

Hi Ladies,

So sorry it's been such a while.... I'm right in the thick of it at the moment, and TBH struggling!!

Thanks so much for your kind words and support!

Biriyani: I think you're right, the ex is probably testing us with her rather controversial comments... I think we did best not to rise to it, and DH's response of just laughing at her and ridiculing her comments was the best fight back! Sounds like you had a tricky time of it with your DSDs birthday.... I'm glad your DH manages to maintain a decent line of communication with the ex and hopefully the kids gesture of flowers reassured you.... As we all know girls can be difficult at that age at he best of times (I know I was!!!)... but there may come a time when they mellow as they get older. Not sure about the second hand baby equipment situation.... but you seem to have a reasonably amicable set up with the ex, and if you feel comfortable using them, and of course it saves money, it may even be nice to accept the gesture from the ex... I say go with your instincts!

I fully understand the 'spare part' feeling as well, and occasions like the kids birthdays etc can emphasize that...!

Vickytick: I was reading your post about holidaying with SS and manners etc, and you gave me goosebumps... a topic v close to my heart! My SS is now 10, and I've been with DH since he was 4 (moved in when he was about 8ish), and have gone through much the same... and can I also add... have never holidayed with him and DH to this day!!! I just about cope having him stay with us every other weekend and wednesdays, and at the end of some of his weekends I'm ready for him to go back to his mum's. Also.... when I first moved in with my DH, he developed a facscination with my boobs!!! He kept coming over to hug me (which was unusual anyway) and then literally giving them a good grope!!! He was 7/8 at the time!!!... I've since made it abundantly clear that there is no way we could share a room together as I'd just get no privacy from him!!! And like yourself and the others... it would just feel wierd!! Of course DH soon put a stop to my SSs boob groping!!! I think he's getting old enough for us to perhaps get him a separate room and if that's the case we can give the holidays a go.... starting with something short like a long weekend in center parcs or something... I think it could be quite intense otherwise!!

He is very much spoiled and babied.... and it has taken years for me to instil the most basic manners into him.... just like you... table manners, constantly interrupting any conversation, flushing the loo!!! (even after an numer 2!!) etc! I soon came to realise that constantly nagging and telling off didn't work, and now work on the basis of simple consequences/rewards... E.G Remembering table manners = nice pudding after dinner. Backchat/no table manners etc = no pudding! His mother spoils him, and undermines anything we teach him. If we refuse to buy him something he doesn't need... his mum will buy it for sure (it's amazing what £500/month child support will buy one minute and on the other hand she's always complaining she has no money! She's works 4 days per week as a private dental hygienist, prior to the divorce settlement she insisted she couldn't work more than 2 days per week as she clamed she had a dodgy wrist and therefore got enough money to buy a house outright...no mortgage etc! BTW... her wrist is magically better now!!) In the space of 18 months she has bought my stepson an Ipod touch, Ipod nano, Ipad (he already had another laptop!), the new Nintendo DS, a wii and an xbox!!!!! For xmas he is getting a mac book pro from her and he wants a blackberry for his 11th birthday!!!!!! Each time we say 'no' his mum will go out of her way to undermine that!!! 

Lindz: I'm with the others on this one! Your DH is very lucky to have someone who is so keen to build a relationship with his son!!! Can I ask a question? And forgive me for being perhaps a little controversial.... but is there a chance he might have put the idea of getting together with you to his DS and could the DS have declined? If that was the case, your DH could be in a bit of a tricky position... I know with my SS he very much fights to have his father to himself, and although we give him lots of one on one time with his dad, he still battles to have his dad to himself when I'm around and my DH feels very torn!! Even if that was the case, and it was your SS actually calling the shots.... your DH needs to realise that it can't go on like this! I really feel for you here!
With regards to using a DE: To be honest, I already knew I would need to do so if I had any hope in TTC before I was even ready to TTC as I was diagnosed with early menopause at age 24, so I have never had the option of using my own. Right know even the idea of becoming pregnant feels just so far fetched that I would be eternally grateful to whichever angel was involved in donating the eggs and getting me there! We will try a few times with donor eggs and DHs sperm before moving onto donated embryos. DH isn't much of an emotional talker, but seems to say that if thats how we end up getting lucky, he will be happy. I guess it's that or the adoption route, which feels even more daunting!!! (Particularly after struggling so much with my stepson, who on the whole can be quite well behaved!)

Scouse: I am in awe of you! I hope, that if and when the time comes, I am able to be as strong as you are and make that decision... we too have set our limits, and as we come closer to it, I grow more and more worried of how I'll cope when the time comes. It's lovely to hear how positive you are. Enjoy your 'us time'  

Anyone I've missed... Myra, Caz... Hope you're doing ok!

AFM: I'm on day 11 of my lining prep. I have had a shameful weekend with my stepson last weekend, and am ashamed of even telling you this, but need to get if off my chest. I know I'm very hormonal but thats no excuse!! As you know we have my stepson every other weekend.... sometimes its great, especially when I get time on my own with stepson as he is good as gold when its just me and him, but when it's the 3 of us, he becomes disrespectful, manipulative and emotionally draining!!! So admittedly I live for those weekends with my DH when his son is not there!!! Well... last weekend was meant to be a stepson-free weekend, but the ex wife's uncle died and she wanted to go to scotland for the funeral and didn't want to take SS with her... fair enough. She told (not curtiously ask) us we would be having ss over the weekend... bear in mind she has not been so cooperative if we ask her to swap weekends due to needing to fly out to barcelona for our embryo transfers, or even when we give her 6 months notice to plan a holiday.... nothing! Anyhow, of course we agreed to have him an extra weekend, and anything we had planned as a couple went to pot! Still, not a problem as far as I was concerned. Usually when we don't have SS with us, we get our household chores done together etc so that DH has more time for his son on the other weekends. When its my SS weekends with us, in general i become the cook and skivvy while the two of them bugger off together for a jolly old time doing father son type activities! If I ask them both to give me a hand, SS will sulk until DH finally gives in to more 'fun' activities involving the 2 of them while I'm stuck cooking, cleaning etc!! Well, of course SS joins us last weekend and anything nice DH and I had planned prior to our iminent ET was cancelled. I very much found myself in the same role of cook and cleaner. I didn't mind for a bit and happily obliged as DH and his son planned their activities on the Saturday morning and I asked them both if they wouldn't mind helping me out for a bit in the afternoon and then we could all have some chill out time together... Well DH mucked in for about 5 minutes in the afternoon before SS began his usual manipulations.... "Daaad! But I really need you to help me practice my judo moves in the garden" I kept calm and told SS that I understood he wanted some more time catching up with his dad, but perhaps he could help his dad out, that way spending time with him, and then we could all do something nice later.... well of course the sulks came along, and of course as a result DH yet again dropped everything for his son. Well at this stage I wrongly saw red, steamed out into the garden and yelled at the pair of them!!! I layed into my SS stating that we got all these chores done on weekends when he's not with us so that he could have more time with his dad having fun on his weekends, but that this weekend wasn't one of those 'Father-son bumper fun weekends bonanzas' and that he would have to learn to take part in the 'normal stuff too' and that I wasn't just their cook and skivvy!!! DH started yelling back at me and we ended up having a stand up row in front of his son (something we've not done in front of him before!) I ended up storming out of the house and told them that I was no longer prepared to play the skivvy and they could cook their own dinner that night. Went off to my parents place before I said anymore that I'd regret. I'm just so fed up of not being a part of their plans and my stepson trying to constantly manipulate his dad for one on one time. It never changes.... We give him plenty of time just with his dad, we give him one on one time with me and he's good as gold then, and we try and make time for the 3 of us, but as soon as we do, he acts up and wants his dad to himself. I can't bear feeling so pushed out and used! I know I stepped out of line last weekend and the hormones are not helping, but I'm dreading this weekend already as he's meant to be with us again. (and am a bit ashamed of my last outburst!!) To top it off, we are waiting for a phonecall from spain any time now to tell us that our donor is ready, and when that phonecall comes I'll have about 2 days notice to get myself out to Barcelona, so the pressure's on at the minute.

So sorry for the long post and crazy rant  

Lots of love,

Jimjam xxx


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## Scouse

oh jj you did make me    I know that wasn't the reactioin you wanted but just had this image of you screaming like a fish wife!  Let's hope it workied a little - your dh should not be taking you for granted ESPCECIAALY with what you're going thro!!!!!! MEN!
I remember after us going away for a week in a cottage and coming back knackered after being their scivvy, I brought the subject up.  Now adays we either have few days in a hotel so i can chill too, or everyone has to join in!
I think our dh's need to grow up and grow a pair!  I remind my dh on a regular ocassion that he is the PARENT not their friend!

Good luck with everythin and i think you need to sit down with dh and calmly tell him how you feel - even if he doesn't react or change he can never say in the future he didn't know!  He's gone thro tx as your partner - not a bystander.

PS I'm not brave and giving your self a dead line doesn't work.  I gave myself til end of last tx but it really took me 12 months to believe in my decision.  
Anyway you won't have to think of dead lines except for the baby's birthday!


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## jimjam183

I know!!!! I actually was screaming like a fish wife!!!! And when I said the phrase "bumper fun weekend bonanza" they both laughed! Which of course poked the angry wasp nest even more!!!! 

I know what u mean about deadline! We tell ourselves there us one, but I'm not convinced!! 

Xxx


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## Vickytick

*JimJam* I must agree with Scouse here I did have a little giggle at the thought of you shouting in the garden at them. Having said that I can completely see where you are coming from and please DO NOT feel bad for saying what you did. To me its completely normal. Our whole holiday was geared around the ss. I know he's 5 so won't understand that he can't always do what he wants but I just feel like I'm there for the ride. I've actually told my DH (if I've still got one but that's another story!!!) that I won't go away with him again and he'll have to go alone. Its not a holiday for me and yet even to holiday in this country is not cheap. His mother kicks off as we don't take him abroad with us but there is no way in this world I'm spending two weeks with him in the same room. Its my holiday as well and spending it with another person's child is not much of one. Its simple things like going for a meal out at night we have to do it early or else we have a tired irritable child the next day which is worse then we are stuck in a room for the rest of the night. Not to mention the inability to eat nicely. One of my friends suggested a chart for ss for eating with his mouth closed and a treat at the end but like you his mother will just get him whatever he wants. She thinks we are mean because we don't take him out every weekend we have him and I don't just mean to the park or beach no she goes to Premier league football games, London Eye, Batman show. EVERY weekend she has him she is taking him on, what I would consider a special treat, so we can't even go that road. He has told us what he wants for his birthday and christmas because he has worked it out with mummy!!! He's in for a shock because he is not getting it. I fundamentally disagree with children getting a fortune spent on them by both parents just because they are divorced. The child ends up with twice as much as a child in a two parent family - its wrong and makes them materialistic - which believe me at 5 he is already half way there - he wants a bouncy castle, trampoline, tree house - eh no. There are so many similiarities again like you he is fine with me on his own bring all three of us together and I'm pushed out of the way - to be fair to DH he doesn't really allow it but ss tries. He hates DH showing me any affection and whenever we are talking or specifically I am he has to interrupt to talk to Daddy. I feel like a witch keep telling him its rude and to stop. You are not there skivvy and not there to do their cleaning at 10 he is more than capable to helping out and I totally agree with you time with Dad can be spent doing 'normal' household tasks - that's what life is all about. You have to be able to live a normal existence and not drop everything for a child. You should go out and leave them a list of tasks to complete for when you get back - lol. Given what you are going through you DH should be able to see and help you - I think men are just not wired the same unfortunately. How has DH been since your 'fishwife' row? Can he see if from your side of things or not? This is the last thing you need when you are so close to ET and getting that baby - things will have to change then as ss cannot rule the roost. I hope this weekend is a little better for you but its tough two weeks in a row I'm not sure I could cope with it. I was so ready for him to go home last week - does that make me a nasty person?? Good luck and fingers crossed for ET   

*Scouse* - You certainly talk sense especially about them growing a pair and being part of ttc. I'm not sure that any of us would ever truly accept our decision to stop. Although the us time would be nice I wish we could just do both.

Hello to Lindz, Caz, Biriyani and Myra.

AFM - I'm in the middle of a full blown row with DH not really speaking sleeping in separate rooms and at the moment I'm not sure I want the marriage to continue. We have the same rows about his ex - who is causing untold trouble all because she will only communicate through a diary that she passes to DH when he has his son - which is every other weekend and wed just like you JJ. His son has a number of hosp appt but she won't email or text the dates so DH can never get time off work as its too late. She knows about them as of Monday but we won't find out until we have him next Wed as she won't tell us only write them in the diary. I told DH to refuse to use the diary and she said if he does she won't tell him about the appts. I told him to stand his ground as she can't do that he has a right to be informed. She won't be dictated to on how to communicate - eh but you're doing that to us!! Its all with the solicitors to handle. Apart from that I'm having a tough time waiting for Jan to start 2nd cycle. I can't find a temp or partime job and I've worked all my life so its really hard not to mention a knock on effect on the household income. Now that stupid ******** craze that is supposed to support breast cancer with people putting the number of weeks and their craving is getting out of control. I can't even see how that supports Breast Cancer but ultimately offends people trying to get pg. My SIL's have joined it and made a jokey comment even though they know what we are going through. I've insisted my DH has a word with them to tell them its really upsetting me but NO he just puts a random thing on his ** rather than confront his sisters. I've had enough with him acting like a child. He never ever confronts this family or tells them they've upset him. They didn't call him on his birthday and didn't even send his cards so he could open them on the day - my mum called us up, we were in Isle of Wight, and I got all the cards from my family and took them with us so he could open them on the day. His family nothing came round two days later.. not a care in the world. I'm the one who listens to it day in day out. I've just had enough with his ex wife, child and now this that I'm starting to wonder whether this is worth it because there is no way the relationship will survive without us having our own child. Do I give up my dream, I'm nearly 38 so chances of me meeting someone else and having a child are very slim as its my problem, or stick with it to see if we have a child together? I've suggested counselling but he says we haven't been together long enough to warrant that (nearly 3 years and ttc for 2 1/2 of that)...

Confused and crying a lot at the moment but coming on there and talking to likeminded women really DOES help me so thank you. Apologies if this has been an all about me post..

V
x


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## jimjam183

Vickytick, I really feel for you mate!

You sound like you're having a really tough time right now. A lot of what you're going through sounds very similar to what we have gone through.... you are not alone here. I too have had my moments when I've wanted to drop everything and leave.... these times come and go. It sounds to me like you and your DH maybe need some timeout together... perhaps with absolutely no focus on TTC or your SS... just some couple time. I find that helps us to regroup, and then talk in a civilized manner. We still do have huge rows about the ex and the way SS is brought up.... but taking time out from it helps us to talk things through as neither of us are feeling so defensive that way.

The way you describe your holiday together is exactly how I had imagined it back when my ss was that age... the thought of it exhausted me. To make matters worse, when my DH and his son do go away together, people look at me as though I'm I'm a horrible person not going with them. So I can completely sympathise with you! You sound perfectly human!

Yes, we have also had the 'guilty dad' syndrome in the house.... every other weekend had to be packed with special activities for the child.... none of the normal stuff, just hanging around... but I have put my foot down... yes its nice to have special treat days out, but life also has to continue as normal when DHs son visits.... after all, he is a member of the family, not some sort of royal visitor where we have to roll out the red carpet everytime he arrives! He needs to feel as though he fits in with routine family life too!
It sounds very much like the ex wife is using her son as a pawn against your DH as she holds him to randsome threatening to not involve him in matters of your SS health.

The problem with our DHs is that they don't want confrontation in their life... they want to keep everyone happy. I often ask my DH why he gives in to his ex wife's demands and constantly feels he has to answer to her, often undermining my feelings and harmony in our home... he used to reply by stating that he chose to appease her as I was a more reasonable person!!! So of course I stopped being reasonable about things, which then puts his back up even more!

I fully agree with you about children from divorce becoming very spoiled and babied... I think my SS mum tries to buy his affections! We have also been given hell by SS and his mum for having any form of discipline in the house... Like I mentionned, we have brought in simple consequences for bad behaviour and rewards for good behaviour... We avoid yelling (I know I slipped up last week!!) and and no smacking (I would never lay a finger on my SS... no matter how cross I got!), so for a while, he simply ran the roost, as we continously nagged him about back chat, manners, personal hygiene, flushing loo etc... it wasn't productive at all. So we (or should I say 'I') introduced consequences like the 'no pudding if no manners' or 'DS taken away if he backchats'.... well, of course, when we follow through with the consequences, he complains to his mother, accuses of bullying him, and she is making my DH justify our methods in front of him at the doorstep. He has even refused to come home to us unless we give in to his mum's way of doing things.

This escalated massively after we got married last summer.... We made sure he was involved at every stage of our wedding plans. He was our ring bearer, and was given pride of place at out wedding day. I had him take part in loads of preparations in the lead up so he really felt involved. He had an absolute whale of a time on the day, and the next day when we left to go on out honeymoon, he told us he'd had the best day of his life. Things seemed to be going well for the three of us.
We came back from our honeymoon to an email from him, stating that he no longer wanted to visit us (usual trick of manipulation we were familiar with), but this time stating that his father and I bullied him, threatened to harm him badly and made him do things he didn't want to! At the end of the letter it simply stated 'ps. don't blame my mum'

Well this just came out of nowhere... and as newly weds it destroyed us! I simply refused to have him home anymore. I was furious. I insisted we didn't beg and plead him to come home and it was up to him if he wanted to come and talk to us. I wasn't prepared to discuss the matter with him without a witness present either! We didn't rise to his threats, and he did come home to us on his next weekend with us... I'd discussed the matter with a friend of mine who had connections with social services and who herself is a mental health nurse as I felt that my SS had huge psychological issues. We pulled out the letter after dinner and discussed each and every bit with him. I asked him upfront about what he meant by each statement:
'bully him' = no pudding/ taking away wii/DS in event of bad behaviour
'threats to hurt him badly' = dad shouting up the stairs 'I'll kick your butt if you don't get up those stairs and into the shower right now!' (his father has never layed a finger on him! And he knows that was an empty threat and his response at the time was 'you can't lay a finger on me as I will get social services on you!!)
'making him do stuff he didn't want to' = Eating spicy food that I have cooked (which he wolfs down, isn't spicy and constantly tells me what a great cook I am and that we should open a restaurant)
We asked him who had helped him write this letter... of course... his mum!!
The ex wife also confronted us and told us that he had spoken to his teachers about his accusations!!

Well we were mortified... I was fuming at the possibility that all this could compramise out chances of adopting in the future and that I'd never forgive either of them if I ended up childless as a result!!! Not to mention our careers as we are both healthcare professionals and therefore both work with children.

We had an at length discussions about it all and pretty much have laid our cards on the table to say that it is his choice if he visits or not, and threatening us in that way will never win him his way. He will always be welcome, and if he had issues in our home he needed to talk to us, not just threaten us as we will never beg or plead him to come home and that is not how we solve problems. We have even talked to him about the role of social services and I have offered him an opportunity to meet somebody from social services through this friend of mine (~offer declined!) The chat seems to have worked... no more threats like that since.

It was me that took over the handling of the situation... DH just wanted to bury his head in the sand. So he just sat there with v little imput.. I also felt that if it was true that SS had discussed such accusations with his teachers, then DH should arrange a meeting with the teachers so that we could make ourselves known. I still have concerns about my SS emotional and mental health and feel that DH should arrange for a visit form health visitor, but of course... he's happier leaving things as they are. (they really do need to grow up and grow a pair!!! Scouse: you are v right there!!!)

Vickytrick: I am sorry you are feeling so poo right now!!   It can be really tough!! Counselling might help, and I certainly thought of that when what happened last summer happened. If he still refuses counselling, could u perhaps ask for some time out together? A night /weekend away even?? (without ss)
My mother always reminds me that I don't have any mother in law problems like she did (which nearly ended her and my dad's marriage)... my in laws live in scotland, we're in the midlands, and they are nice and non interfering, luckily! Every relationship has third party issues, be that the ex wife, inlaws, step kids and even your own kids... walking into something new will bring its own problems. Perhaps just trying to be a couple for a bit will help you refocus. What do u reckon? Especially if your next go isn't till January.

I hope you're all doing ok. Its reassuring to know we are not alone!

Lots of love, Jimjam xxx


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## Vickytick

Thanks JimJam you really seem to understand what I am saying which quite frankly is a novelty for me. No-one seems to get it and thinks I should just get on with it all. I totally empathise with everything you've said and completely see where you are coming from. So many similiarities in your story to mine its frightening and a sad indictment of the world we are facing. I've also told H that he needs to speak to the teachers as I know that last year his ex was 'making comments' to other mothers and I expect the teacher as well. I want him to go in and dispel them straight away but its like trying to draw blood out of a stone.  

Things haven't got any better this afternoon its been text messaging back and forth. He just cannot see that yes I'm at fault (I suffer terribly from PMS so am a nightmare around my AF) but his inability to 'grow a few' as Scouse puts it is causing us problems as well. I've told him unless he can come up with a solution its over and I'll speak to the solicitor on Monday. My family are sick and tired of us arguing every few weeks then getting back together. They also think I let his ex rule my life and cannot talk about anything else. I'm very close to my family so they know about every little row (I have a twin sister so its natural) and DH often goes to my sister when he struggles with me which I've told him time and time again that is wrong. My sister says we can't carry on and need to make a decision and if that is to split so be it. I hate to admit but she is right. I can't spend the rest of my life keep doing this the trouble is I gave up everything for this relationship (apart from short flings I've been on my own until I met him at 34) even my job and invested all my money into this house so I'm scared of starting again with nothing. What happens if we never have a child of our own we won't make it so surely I should cut now whilst I've still got some dignity and not a complete broken down mess but lose my biggest dream ??

Thanks again JimJam you have been a star and really understand me so I appreciate that alot.

x


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## Scouse

JJ and Vicky I have read your posts and they have made me sad......   (But I am exhausted after teaching the class from hell and jsut quaffed a bottle of wine very quickly) 
I am divorced from a man who didn't want babies but only told me AFTER we were married!  I'm now married to a man who never wanted children, 'accidently' got his ex pregant TWICE and tried so so hard to help me get pregnant!  The point is - I nearly sacrificed my yearning to be a mummy for a man who didn't deserve me - i eventually had the guts to walk away.  I'm now happily married but without children!  But I am so, so much better off where I am now because my soul is at peace with my decisions and altho I would still love to be a mummy, I know I can survive because I am a part of my dh!
Life is too short!  Worrying about being alone is 100% worse than actually being alone.

But I also now being a step mum and going thro tx does take a terrible toll on a relationship.  I certainly couldn't have gone thro a cycle without my dh's FULL support and love - it was just TOO BLOODY HARD!!!!!!!!!!
What ever your decision make it clearly!  Avoid all the obstacles (tx, exes, step kids, work, finance etc) and think clearly what do you want from your life - cos no other bugger will do it for you!

I had a little 'blip' this summer.......... have always remained in contact with an ex boyfriend (you know - the one that got away!) but after feeling at a loss, old, ugly, unattractive, etc the idea od my ex was becoming more and more attractive.  He was trying to woo me again......flattery, reminiscing etc and I nearly fell for  it.  HE found me attractive - HE wanted to make love to me....... (my ex works unsocial hours, is ten years older than me and I've been off for 6 weeks so 'raring to go!)  
Then dh arranged for us to go to Stratford on our own.......but on the journey there he was really quiet.  I suddenly remembered he'd been using my laptop and panicked wondering had he seen my chats with the ex on ********.
Anyway we went on to have a lovely time - he obv hadn't read them.  But it was the wake up call I needed - I couldn't hurt dh he is far too precious.  He knows me better than I know myself.
Ladies you need to prioritise what you want from your future and then do what you have to.

If you are to be a step mum - your dh's need to allow you to become involved.  But they have to realise they have a duty to you also.  You are not an attachment that can be 'used' where and when they are ready.  And unless they treat you with respect, their off spring and exes won't !

OMG sorry for the ramble - mixture of wine, exhaustion and empathy.
Always here if anyone needs a shoulder!


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## jimjam183

Hi ladies,

Scouse: Some valuable advice there. I have to say that after the troubles we had with SS last summer, and as we keep on witht he IVF cycles, I did have to ask myself the question.... if things went horribly wrong and we were declined the option of adoption due to SS's antics, did I love my DH to stay with him... the answer was that I do... despite my moans, he is an amazing man, and my life and if push came to shove.... I chose to stay with him.

How have you been over the weekend Vickytick? I hope you are doing OK. It's difficult to know what to do, I'm sure. What Scouse says makes a lot of sense I think.

Biriyani: Did you accept the baby things from the ex in the end?

Everyone else: hope you're ok.

AFM: We've had my ss for this weekend.... I was so embarrassed after my 'fishwife' episode, but things were better as it happens. I'm still ready for a bit of space this evening when he goes back to his mum, but on the whole, things were better.

We had out phonecall from spain: our donor is ready so we have our ET on thursday. Flying out Wednesday and home next Sunday. EEK!!!

Love Jimjam xx


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## Biriyani

JimJam - glad that it all went well this weekend.  I sometimes find that if you do make a stand about something, it feels horrendous at the time but it does make people think a bit.  Sounds like that may have happened with you.  Hopefully no need for fishwife antics for a while now!  And anyway, you need a nice calm week this week - LOTS OF LUCK for your trip to Spain.  Hope it all goes well and you get the outcome you deserve.  (Oh - and yes - we accepted the baby stuff!! Although the cot is actually going to my sister now, which is probably for the best).

VickyTick - it sounds like you're having a really, really tough time at the moment.  You've had some wise words from Scouse so I don't have much to add, but I suppose you just need to think about whether you have something for yourself in your life, or whether you're just having to try to keep lots of other people happy.  I've always felt that being a step mum is complicated enough when it's going well, and if it was really messy I know I wouldn't cope - and wouldn't want to cope, either.  That's probably not too helpful, though!!

AFM - had antenatal all weekend, which was fun but now I'm too tired to do any work.  This is my last week before maternity leave - I know - I'm really lucky.  My replacement is starting in about 5 minutes, so I'd better get moving and start sorting out my desk...

Have a good day, ladies xxx


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## Vickytick

*JimJam* - that's so exciting that ET will be on Thursday. Do you have to stay for a certain period of time before you can fly home? I don't know much at the DE process but do you get to choose the donor or not? Its our next step if the cycle in Jan fails so I'm interested in it. I bet you can't wait and the best of luck with it I really hope that its your turn.  

*Scouse*[/b] - I agree with JJ you do talk alot of sense and what you said really did make me think about EVERYTHING and Biriyani reiterated that as well.

Hi to the other ladies.

*AFM * - Things came to a head on Sat morning and we actually sat down and chatted. DH finds my hormone induced moods once a month very hard to handle and tbh I don't handle them well - never have - I can become *really* nasty and spiteful but underneath I don't mean it. At that particular moment I hate the world and truly hate my DH and want him away from me. I've told him that he needs to learn to give me space and not try to talk me out of it - worse thing just makes me angrier but he is a believer in talking. A couple of days later I'm fine but I really need to learn to say sorry (never been my strong point). This month it was almost as bad as when I had the mc in dec but I just don't know why. The GP has said that the pill would be one way to resolve it but you obviously can't take that whilst ttc. I'm sure my hormone levels are the reason I had 2 m/c and 1 failed IVF cycle. I told him that he needs to stop trying to do everything for his family at the expense of me and stand up for me a bit more - he agreed with this and promised me he will try. He wants to help everyone which is one of the reasons I love him but its also his weakness. I thought long and hard about what you said Scouse and I do truly love him. We have been through so much together that we can overcome anything but we have to learn to accept each others failings. I just want to give him what he wants - a child he wakes up with every day - not just on every other weekend. This month has been particular tough for me but no-one can really understand how hard it is when they haven't been through it. We also need to learn to ignore his ex and not bring her into our daily lives by talking about her and what she is up to (this weekend's 'normal' activities incl premier league football game, dinner out, country show and a helicopter ride!) We'll raise his son how we feel fit and leave it at that if that's not good enough then so be it. I'm worried the affect his ex will have on our chances of adoption but we have decided to ask a few pertinent questions of the relevant authorities about that.

All in all a relatively good weekend certainly one that saw a light at the end of the tunnel. Biggest hurdle he's agreed to go to counselling I just need to find a good local place to go to. So that is a step in the right direction.

Thanks Scouse your words of wisdom definitely helped me put perspective on it all and like Jimjam I can't see me living without him we both just need to learn to compromise.

xx


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## Biriyani

VickyTick - it's great to hear you sounding so much more positive.  Now I feel bad for my pretty negative response to your earlier post!  I think it's really hard to have the confidence to ignore the ex's lifestyle, but it's definitely the way forward.  When I first got together with DH, his ex was brilliant at things like birthdays and special occasions - just seemed to be able to make them really special, warm occasions with beautiful decorations, lovely gifts and things.  I felt totally inadequate and always wanted to live up to her.  Things changed when she had 2 more children, and now she really doesn't have the time to keep on top of things, so she tends to go for random splashes of the cash instead.  The older SD likes to casually say "Oh - mum bought me this", pointing out nice expensive things, and it's all I can do not to say "would that be out of the money that me and dad give her?!?!", but so far I'm managing to keep my mouth shut!  

We are much more of the "time, love and normal stuff" approach to parenting than DH's ex, and I just tell myself that as the children get older they'll realise there's more than one way to do things, and having lots of stuff doesn't necessarily make you happier.  Or maybe they'll end up deciding that it does - but at least they've had chance to test out two different lifestyles and make an informed decision!!

Sorry - MUST do some work.  Just can't seem to focus...


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## Vickytick

Hi ladies its been quiet on here - thinking thats a good thing as its means that things are going okay in our lives at the moment or we are all just getting on with it and putting up with the [email protected]@p.

Just after a piece of advice really.

Do any of you get involved in parents evenings and that sort of thing? My dh has now made (or rather I did on his behalf) arrangements to go to his own parents evening appt rather than wait to find out if his ex tells him before the 11th hour or not. His sister seems to think I should go but I'm anti it. I have no problem arranging it all for him but I don't think its appropriate for me to attend - he's not my child after all.

Hope you are all okay.

Vicky
x


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## Spotter

Hi Vicky - I'd say we're all just getting on with it! I don't go to any parents evenings DH goes on his own as his ex has never been to any EVER prob cos she's too thick to hold an intelligent conversation! 

I have a dilemma - we have 3 bedrooms the kids have their own when they stay over but having LO arrive in January we're going to have to put them together in one room! As baby will be in our room for a few months would you hold off doing Nursery til nearer the time it's needed so they don't feel like babys coming along and they're losing their own space?! It's not ideal putting them in together but for one night a week and holidays it's got to be done.

Hope everyones doing ok and enjoying the sunshine xxx


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## jimjam183

Hi ladies,

Sorry I've not been in touch.. Been bit caught up in my 2ww. OTD tomorrow and not feeling confident. :-(

Vickytick:- I'm in a similar sort of position... I have never gone to my SS's parents eve, but last week he had an openday at his future secondary school. DH was meant to pick him up from school and take him there. The mother was supposed to meet them there. (it was our night to have SS stay over). 

Anyhow, DH had to stay back at work, so I had to do the school run and arrange to take him to the open evening and meet the ex there!!! Was nervewracking to say the least! While we were there, the ex mentionned to me that he had another open eve for their second choice school ... This happens to fall tomorrow (our OTD!). Well I mentionned to her that I fancied tagging along with DH as I too cared about his welfare. Surprisingly she seemed fine with that (at least on the surface!) I think go with your instincts. Might make u feel closer to your stepchild if you're involved. Plus I think it's good for the school to know who the step parents are! But... If it makes u feel uncomfortable, or it feels unnatural, then it's also absolutely fine not to go. I think it's nice that u organised it for your DH. I know my DH has not been very proactive with these things and wrongly relies on his ex to organise everything. I've stepped in and looked at ofsted reports for schools etc on his behalf! 

How's everyone doing?

Hope you're all ok! 

Jimjam xxx


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## jimjam183

Spotter:- congrats on the pregnancy!

Do u think you'll be able to juggle sorting nursery after baby is born? What about getting the stepkids moved in together now? Make it a fun thing for them? Perhaps they could decorate their room together? That way they are nicely settled in before baby comes and everything happening one step at a time in advance of arrival of new baby.  They might be less likely to feel negative about little one arriving. Then u could get nursery ready in a month or 2 (about nov/dec?)  Perhaps getting stepkids involved in helping to design/decorate? 

It's not at all wrong to ask them to share when they are not there all the time. Just might help to coat it in sugar a little to make the idea more appealing.

Exciting times ahead for you!!!! 

Jimjam x


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## Vickytick

*JimJam* - sorry to see you are not feeling confident about OTD - how has the 2ww been generally though?? The reason I'm so torn is that, like you I want to get involved - as I've got time on my hands I've offered to help in the library (we were also told to get involved with children on the adoption evening) - but I know that his ex is not going to be happy about it at all. I think its good that the teachers meet the step parents especially as I might be picking him up from school soon on a wed (again if the ex agrees). I think I'm going to have to see how I feel. I think its good that you want to get involved and agree sometimes men need that little bit of pushing. I'm the one who checks all the school emails and even set up a folder!!. They used to go together but it got to the stage that his ex was selective on appts so I just took the bull by the horn and said he can go on his own.

*Spotter* - I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. We've had this chat as my ss has the smallest room in the house and DH has said when, or if, we get pg then perhaps he should move into one of the bigger rooms and let the baby have his. I've said absolutely not because the baby will live with us permanently and ss only comes 6 nights a month so the baby should take priority. I do think the sooner you can get them used to it the better and I really like JimJam idea - kind of like an adventure for them - they can help with the nursery as well. You will need a room for all the baby stuff so its not realistic to leave it until the baby needs its own room. Technically they have 2 rooms anyway one at yours and one at mum's which most children don't have. I find myself having to explain that alot to my ss because he thinks 2 homes double the expensive stuff. I'll have one at ours and one with mummy.


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## Spotter

Jimjam- good luck today hun -   you get the right result !! x

Jimjam & Vicky - Thanks for your advice ladies - I never thought of it that way, I was just thinking don't want to feel bad pushing the eldest out his room when baby isn't even in there - but like you say I still need all my baby things to go in there and will use it for changing him etc !!  I'm so excited at the thought of doing up a Nursery after all these years of longing for a baby and on my due thread ladies are posting pics of their nursery's they've done and I just want to get cracking!  Only other problem is money's a bit tight at the mo' and we're going to have to get rid of a double bed and sofa bed (which won't be worth nothing to sell on) and buy either bunk beds or 2 single beds! 

Vicky - I agree with what Jimjam says - whatever you feel comfortable with go with !!  I wouldn't feel comfortable going to Parents Evening but if I picked them up from school etc then I would have a different view on it.  However, I do get involved in their schoolwork - helping out with homework etc especially the young girl ( as we have to make Puppets etc using old boxes, pipe cleaners and things like that and her mum never does any of that with her!  I find it great fun and it's good bonding time!  

Anyway ladies must dash - off to hairdressers for a much needed cut ! xxx


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## jimjam183

Hey ladies,

Just wanted to tell u it was another bfn for us. We're gutted :-(

Luckily it's just the 2 of us this weekend so we'll get some time to recover together b4 SS joins us next week. 

Vicky:- I understand the concerns about the ex's reactions. To be honest ours didn't get a choice in the matter as I just turned up with SS. She would have looked a right wally if she had reacted! I didn't go yesterday as was just so devastated after bfn and couldn't bare to watch DH and his ex play mummy and daddy at the open eve with SS. So he went without me. 

Spotter:- Exciting stuff! I understand it must be costly to reorganise everything... But I can't wait to get a nursery ready one day! Have u an ikea nearby? Not sure re costs, but they might do bunkbeds at reasonable price. We bought SS a single bed from the 'malm' range and it wasn't too costly. You deserve to enjoy all the baby preparations! I say go for it and enjoy! 

We're going back to Spain for our FET in December. 

Lots of love to all,

Jimjam xxx


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## Spotter

Jimjam - so sorry to hear it was BFN but wish you all the best for your FET in December and   it works out for you next time !  Yes I thought about going to Ikea and picking up a bunk bed or something at a reasonable price.  Will have to drag DH off for a look - think I'll start on nursery November time.  I broached the subject yesterday with DH and told him how excited I am to get the nursery done and put all my things in there (instead of littering up our bedroom with stuff everywhere!) so he knows now how I feel about it and he's fine with doing that - so all good !!  To be honest I don't think the kids will bother as they only go to the bedroom to sleep - it's not like they use them in the day - it's just me worrying and wanting to please everyone!  xx


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## Caz

Jimjam, sorry to hear about your BFN.  Take some time to heal and be kind to yourself.



jimjam183 said:


> Do u think you'll be able to juggle sorting nursery after baby is born? What about getting the stepkids moved in together now? Make it a fun thing for them? Perhaps they could decorate their room together? That way they are nicely settled in before baby comes and everything happening one step at a time in advance of arrival of new baby. They might be less likely to feel negative about little one arriving. Then u could get nursery ready in a month or 2 (about nov/dec?) Perhaps getting stepkids involved in helping to design/decorate?


I think that's an excellent suggestion. Perhaps spend a little bit of money on them to have something nice in their room too so it's not all about the baby. 

FWIW, on the open day/parent's evening thing, I never had the chance but, I would not have gone had I done so. It would not have felt right for me but if it does for you and everyone is happy with it, I see no reason why not.

C~x


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## Vickytick

Morning ladies,

*JIMJAM* - so sorry to hear about your bfn it doesn't get any easier. Thoughts are with you and glad your positive about the FET in Dec. It was probably the best thing for you to spend some time on your own and not go to the parent's evening. I'm not sure about you but there are certain times I find it very difficult to even see children in the street without getting irrationally envious (I mean they might have struggled to have them).

*Spotter* - Glad to hear DH is okay with the bedroom situation. The fun part now - decorating the nursery.

As it turns out I chose not to go to the parents evening but hearing how the teacher spoke to my DH I almost wish I did. We already had an issue where she told DH ex in the school comm diary that he had asked for an appt seeking approval from the ex which quite frankly is not her business to tell her his ex cannot stop him going. My SS has some issues, they think it might be dsypraxia but at 5 he is too young to be diagnosed unfortunately his mother has gone all out to prove he has it and as a result babies him massively. He is actually quite clever but is obviously slowly at learning certain skills. He is 6 in Nov but they still get him dressed. We don't and have absolutely no problems with him at all. He gets dressed and comes back downstairs, we get him to go upstairs and clean his teeth (albeit we do check he is doing it!!), he helps put his own toys away etc. The only struggle we have is table manners. We get alot of baby voices, his immediate response is 'I can't' to anything slightly difficult or his favourite 'mummy lets me do that/it'. The teacher told my DH that when he gets dressed by himself we should give him extra praise, tell him how clever he is with lots of cuddles. We both think that he needs praise but in the right context not over the top displays as though he has conquered mount everest not put a polo shirt on the right way. We *always *praise him and thank him for doing the little things like helping to put his toys away. We tell him how well his is doing with his reading when he reads to us both - he even chose a new fun reading book at the weekend as a reward for this hardwork. He needs time spent on a 1-1 basis and slightly pushed rather than have everything done for him. I think she even cleans his teeth.

My main worry is the child is getting conflicting ideas from two homes and DH lost it at the w/e when SS said for the 100th time - mummy lets me do it - and told him not to say it anymore. I do think some of its coming from his mum. He randomly told DH that he misses mummy if he stays at ours on a Wed when questioned by DH why he said it - mummy told me to. He also told us he hadn't gone on the fairground last weekend just to the beach then told my SIL that he'd been on rides - as though he's been told not to tell us. He has a v good memory so he hadn't forgotten. He also appears to know exactly what was requested by my DH in the recent solicitors letter and even told us that he was going to be staying alternate xmases and every wed. His ex has not agreed anything with us yet but its worrying that she is either telling a 5 yr or discussing it in front of him. He picks up everything.

My DH is getting to the point where he feels he is losing his son through his mother's manipulation (no child is going to think badly of his mum) and unless we buy or take him everywhere he won't want to come around. Combine that with our ttc issues my DH looks like a broken man for the first time ever. He is a great Dad and he left his ex not his child. Yet as his son grows up its becoming obvious she is being less than generous towards my DH in her comments. We never ever make comments about her or her partner in front of his son but its getting to a point where her name is constantly mentioned between us on the days we are alone ie discussing the latest 'thing' she has down to upset DH. We just want her to leave us alone and get on with her life but she doesn't seem able to do that.

Sorry for the rant I never intended it to be so long but once I started .. its just I'm so worried about my DH he is even talking about taking a job abroad that way his ex gets what she wants - him out of SS life. He is losing the will to keep fighting her just because he wants to spend time with his son.

x


----------



## Sarah4eva

Hiya ladies, I somehow stumbled across this thread. I am not a step mother but couldn't stop reading. I might not have the right to comment but putting myself in your position I also would find it so hard to have step children especially if you are treated like an outsider. Here you are trying so hard to conceive while you have to watch you partners/husbands play happy families and not including you. You guys have a lot of patience and don't know how I would of been able to cope with it. All this problem of the ex shouldn't be a problem unless your partner allows it to be. They shouldn't let their ex make decisions on not seeing the step mum as the dad has rights too. Also just because they are children (some about 11 +) they still have no right to treat step mums badly and your partners need to let the children know that this is my wife, she has been trying so hard, and therefore you have to respect them . Also, while trying to hide own feelings of infertility. We understand that their kids come first but your feeling should also come first. When kids treat you bad or ex partners then i'm sorry to say but it's the husbands/partners fault, they shouldn't let their ex's control their lives, or children to get away with everything. 

It's so sad when dh and his kids go on holiday and you have to stay at home alone and feel crap. I have problems with MIL (I know it's not the same) but i'm clear to DH that I know your mum is important but so am I. Us wives/parners also need their support. Maybe I have a different thinking coz of where I am from. In our country children have to respect all elders let alone step mums. Also, step mums can discipline just like real mum. If you want me to treat you like my child then you have to let me treat you like your mum. We do not tiptoe around kids and ex wives/parners have nooooooo say in my relationship. If I aint allowed to see your kids then keep them. And no kid comes to my house treat me with disrespect while their dad supports them. If it was me honestly I wouldn't blame the ex or the child/ren as your husband made a promise to you just like they made a promise to their children and there shouldn't be a number for you to come 2nd third. Nooo we all come first. (Unless I was a bad step mum then fair enough) When I first got with my DH I had such problems with inlaws, they used to treat me like crap and talk to me however they want. I wasn't angry at them as they are nothing to me really. I married my hubbby and he should be the one sticking up for me. And sticking up for me doesn't necessarily mean an ulltimatum or shout at your family etc. But it means making it clear that this is my wife and I am not having it. 


I'm sorry if I have offended anyone but I felt so bad reading some posts on here and step mums hiding their feelings coz they feel they need to be happy, play 'mum' when they are required to, be a cook, cleaner, skivvy. Who thinks about your feelings?


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## Myra

Hi all.....I know its been along time since posting for me....but I no longer qualify to post on this thread....DP has decided to end it as he feels he can no longer deal with all the stress, so he is selling up and moving nearer to his children and I no longer fit into his plans...so thats it for me, I wish you all well and I do hope that you all carry on chatting on here and giving each other some good support and words of advice, I will still follow this thread as I am the volunteer, so you never know I might just add my own bit of advice from time to time  

Good luck girls...time for me to move on and try an make some sense of my life, I will be back though   even if its just to offer support.

Love to you all Myra xxx


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## Scouse

Bloody hell Myra where did that come from?  Was it on the cards or a surprise decision?  More importantly, how are you?  Pm me if you want to talk or keep posting here so we know how you are!
Sorry Ive not been keeping up - work is dire!  I HATE my new class and today we have heard our inspection is in Novemebr.  Can't cope with any more stress so sort of 'ignoring' step children syndrome.  Altho it's dss 9th birthday and I haven't seen or heard from him.
I've also been struggling with dh - not his fault but I've suddenly realsied this is it - no children just the two of us.  Feeling quite low and then an ex gets in touch and begins to flirt and reminisce and I begin to fall for it....... I just want to feel wanted and attractive again.  Then i realise dh loves me for me and not the idea of me ten years ago!
OMG sorry for that.....only meant to pop on and offer myra support.
Hope evryone else is well and not letting those step kids/ exes get you down!


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## Biriyani

Myra - I'm so sorry.  I hope you are OK and were involved in the decision making.  Thinking of you.


JimJam - so sorry to hear it was a BFN.  Fingers crossed for the FET - that's what worked for me in the end, so hopefully you'll be as lucky.


Scouse - glad you've got other traumas to take your mind of the step parenting ones.  No - that sounds wrong!  Good luck for the Ofsted - I'm sure you'll love your class by then!


AFM - still trying to hold it together - got a week and a bit till I'm due, which is very exciting.  I do keep randomly crying, though, which is a bit weird!  Anyway, cannot complain about the DSDs at all at the mo - they are being really nice and thoughtful.  I'm just concerned about remaining calm and on top of things (that's how I like to portray myself to them!) when I've just had a baby.  Maybe I'll have to give in and be a human being with feelings...


Hi everyone else - hope things are going OK.


Oh - Sarah4Eva - thanks for your message of support!  I suspect that many of us feel that we chose this life and knew what we were getting ourselves into (maybe not all the details but the basic idea) so in a way we've got to get on and make the most of it.  Also, in my case, I strongly feel that the children definitely did not choose this lifestyle and in almost every case would rather their parents had stayed together, so it's a tricky line to walk - one in which really our feelings do come last!!  Sounds a bit miserable, but it's fine most of the time!


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## Myra

Hi girls....

Scouse...no not on the cards, a complete shock...promise I will stay in touch just need to get my head around it all...I will pm you tomorrow    to all

Myra xxx


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## Vickytick

*Myra *- sorry to hear about this especially as it was unexpected. Its the result that those of us in this situation probably dread the most so can only sympathise with you at this time and send my heartfelt wishes to you. 

*Biriyani* - not long until you hold your baby in your arms. I'm sure the random crying is all the hormones getting ready! Fingers crossed that it all goes well and do let us know - when you feel ready. I'm sure the arrival of the lo will help with the dsd as its their sibling after all.

*Scouse* - Good luck with the ofsted. My sister is a teacher and hates the dreaded inspection..Its a distraction but perhaps a nicer one would be good.

Hi to spotter and jimjam hope all is well

*Sarah4eva* - like Biriyani said its nice to have additional support but we all did choose this life so have to accept the cards we are dealt sometimes. We just use hear as a sounding board and advice. I would say though that whilst our partners may not always handle the situation brillantly they really are stuck in the middle. They want to support us but they also want/need to see their children which is as it should be. Also don't underestimate the might of the ex either, these women can be extremely manipulative and nasty as I know only too well from my own experience..they can and do use the children as pawns to get their way.

xx


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## Scouse

Just wanted to check up on Myra and all you other luvlies of course.  Myra what's happening - how are you?


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## minkey114

Hi ladies, Sorry to crash your thread but my DH's ex wife is causing us untold problems, now the kids are 13 & 15 and not quite so cute basically she doesn't want them around & is trying to make us have them 30% more than we do (we already have them once a week) and has also said that even though maintenance has been agreed for the last 12 years that she now wants to go through the CSA & she reckons my finances will be taken into account??

Does anyone know if this is correct?? I'm having a hard enough time trying to save for tx   the online calculator does not mention anything about my wages & actually works out that we would be paying her less than we do now!!

Does anyone have any experience with this?


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## Vickytick

minkey114 - in a word YES I have more experience of this than I would like to.... She cannot touch your wages or any money you might have squirrelled away. My DH ex tried this one by attempting to work out my salary based on how old she thought I was (I'm older than her but she thinks I'm years younger) and where I worked. It can only be based on his salary. We could as the new spouses have millions in the Bank and live a life of riley but if DH only earnt £5,000 a year that's all it can be based on. Secondly the CSA calculator is a godsend. DH and ex never had a formal agreement and he paid her £1,500 a month (£800 spousal maintenance) and she wanted over £2,000 a month. He has reduced her money over the last couple of years, she has a new partner so spousal has stopped but he still pays £670 for his son every month. We are in the process of reducing it again basically we check the calculator at least once a year or if there are any government changes which is backed by the solicitor - he checks it and sends her the letter telling her we are reducing it.  When we finally have a child it will reduce again - although she disputed that. As I understand it as the children are over 12 it might get reduced anyway because they no longer need childcare. Also unless they are planning to stay in further education it can be stopped at 16.

Hope this helps. The thing to remember is they threaten this but tbh they don't get away with it. My DH ex has been picking and choosing access over the last few weeks. She chooses when we have him for xmas, when we can go on holiday. She constantly sends irrelevant texts at night to ask if my DH is taking his son football the next day on her weekend. She cannot leave us alone. We know that she can't win so we are going to court - frankly we can't afford it but we have to take a stance.

Good luck


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## jimjam183

Wow vickytick! My DH and I didn't know a lot of this. DH also pays a set amount each month! What's this about the child being 12 And if we ever manage kids of our own?! Talked it through with DH and we both totally agreed that we don't believe for one second that the ex would save any money leftover from child maintenance for my SS future (surely it doesn't cost £600/month to bring up a child... Particularly when youre on 40k/yr earnings and live in a house which u fully own i.e. No mortgage or rent!) We both agreed that if we could pay her less we would, and then we would save what would have lined her pockets for his future instead. 

Thanks for sharing that! Minkey... Good luck with it all. 

Scouse, Myra, biriani, anyone I've forgotten... (struggling to scroll back on phone) how are u all? 

Xxx


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## minkey114

Thanks vicky! That's spook helpful - currently away so just a quick one but just wanted to say thanks fir your advice   we have been getting even more grief but will update that when back from the weekend x


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## Biriyani

Hi all!  Sorry I can't help on the technical stuff, but I just wanted to let you know I've had my baby!  He is six weeks today and is doing really well.  I've nearly got the feeding sorted -that's been the hardest thing for me soo far.

The challenges of dsds have changed now - they are fab with ds but I just don't seem to have space in my brain for everyone.  Apparently it does get easier...

Hope everyone is  OOK xxxxx


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## Vickytick

*Biriyani* -  I hope motherhood is everything you wanted it to be (I'm sure alot of it is still a shock to the system). I'm sure it'll get easier. Hopefully one day the rest of us will join you.

*Minkey114* - glad I could help as it is a total minefield and one that unfortunately some women choose to abuse..Good luck with it.

*JimJam* - Its nice to know others find it useful. Yes its amazing how much our DH can be expected to pay. My DH ex actually told him that the £670 *only contributed* to the cost of his son. This is on top of the fact that DH gave her £172,000 out of the sale of the family home to buy a new one. What on earth does he eat caviar I know for a fact that its not clothes as he looks awful most of the time (we have to provide our own clothes when he is at ours). The 12 year old thing is that I think maintenance is sometimes worked out with a certain assigned to childcare so the ex can work but obviously after 12 a child can legally stay at home on their own. The maintenance stops for a child when they reach 16 if they choose not to carry on education as they can go out and find a job to support themselves. My parents are actually split and to be fair my Dad paid until we had all left university. The CSA give them their due are not biased towards the wife so its worth contacting them via the phone its not legally binding but they do give you an idea.

Hope everyone else is good.
xx


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## MrsFlossey25

Hi ladies

I have read most of your situations and i totally understand how hard it is.

Going through it mysefl. My DP has 2 children ages 6 and 8 and there mother is nightmare from complete Hel*. she even resulting in having me arrested for assult on her youngest even tho it didnt even happen and later the police found out she lied and also made her youngest lie but didnt do anyuting about it

Because of this and everything else the ex throws at me i left my dp Jan this year and went to live with my parents for 5 months, me and DP met up to discuss our future. when we met up i new i still loved him and why should i let the witch win and keep us apart so i moved back in with DP and started getting help with regards to fertility treatment and my dp was excellent. he has changed so much. always protects me from the Witch and i dont really do as much as i used to with the kids like bath time etc just incase the witch tries anything

She is now lying again which is resulting in Alan's benefit for his eldest being taken away which means we have to pay the witch more child support, we dont have enough money coming in due to me having to give up work, for health reasons. 

I am cying my eyes out and dont know how i can cope with this and having nasty side effects for the fertility drugs i am taking

I hate her so much, she isnt a good mother and dont care about them but just wants the money.

REally low


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## Vickytick

*Flossey25* - I'm so sorry you are having such a hard time. The whole rollercoaster of ttc is hard enough without having an abnoxious ex partner thrown into the ring as well. When you can't have your own child the whole thing is magnified. I can empathise because earlier this month my DH and I thought about splitting up because his ex is driving us apart and will not leave us alone. My family were trying to make me realise that I'd be giving up MY dream and life for a complete witch. Why should they ruin our lives we have done nothing to them ever except welcome their children into our lives and care for them when they are with us. I know that if we had our own family she will get worse (honestly I think she likes the fact I can't have children so she can call the shots) but I'm determined that we will one day either natural or adoption. Its very good that your partner is standing up to his ex which is honestly very difficult for them they are in the middle of the woman they love and the children they adore but he has his new life with you and needs to consider that. More than likely the split is what made him realise why should his life suffer because she is out of order. I can't believe that she called the police and that they even took it seriously (that is slander surely?) then not to take any action even for wasting police time.

We have to be very tough to cope with all of this and its hard. My DH is in the process of taking his ex to court over access at the same time of me having to have mri scans for fertility issues and the postponement of our ttc. I surprised he hasn't keeled over yet.

One word of advice he has started, never used to, to stop telling me in all the trivality of his ex and son ie the nasty emails, text messages, inane comments she makes, because it was doing me more harm than good. I was getting wound up and I think she liked the fact she was causing us issues. Its hard because if someone slates someone close to me I'm there ready to defend but I have to learn for my own good to step away. Perhaps you can suggest that your DP shields you a bit more from any nastiness that your ex does (easier said than done I know) so you don't listen or know what is going on.

You have to think of yourself when ttc that is what is important. Please don't let the witch win and ruin your life. These women are sad little people who are so jealous they have to find ways to destroy us. Be proud that she is obviously threatened by your good relationship with your dp and her children. You're obviously a good person remember that.

x


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## MrsFlossey25

Hey

Thank you so much for your reply. i've calmed down and DP came home on his lunch break to see if i was ok.

I'm so sorry its hard for you too, DH must be so upset and stressed with going to court, my dp took 2 yrs to get joint residancy, courts are tough work. hope it goes ok

Please dont split up, remember its her causing it. she is jealous just like my dp ex is. he has you now and they dont like it

i am always here if you want to talk too, i really know how hard it can be

xxxxx


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## minkey114

Hi Ladies,

Sadly I too can identify with the issues that you are having only too well,  I have been with my DH for 8 years and he has a 13 and 15 year old (2 boys), their Mother is trying to make our life hell and I think her sole intention is to try and break us up.  There has been a very long chain of events however she has got worse recently and has been sending the most disgusting text messaged to my DH (one of which was along the lines of "why don't you just fcuk off and go and [email protected] into a test tube and have a retarded test tube baby"  

Have you ever heard anything more disgusting (BTW we did not tell her about IVF, she has obviously guessed somehow)

Anyway following that we have reported her to the police for harrassment - I told DH I was simply not prepared to put up with this anymore, she has threatened us with many things over the years, most recent is that the kids will hate DH and that she is going to get her hands on my wages (which I have since found out she is not able to do).

I am also at the point of leaving my DH, I just don't know how much more I can take on top of the failed IVF's that we have had - I am compltely at breaking point and am struggling to see a way forward.

Life really isn't very fair sometimes is it??


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## MrsFlossey25

I am currently sat with my mouth wide, open!

I am sickend to my stomoch that vile waste of oxegen could say something like that! she is only trying to break you up, my dps ex succeeded jan this year and she even texted me saying, hahahaha he dont want you now, you cant give him what i can, i have my babies with him what can you bring!

but im back and strong and right in her face showing how much my dp loves me and how much he never loved her, and she hates it. the only way you can win against her is to show her it dont bother you etc

Easier said than done in know, i let her ruin my life, i walked out on my wedding with only a few months to go thanks to her because the stress became too much but stay strong and remember why your with your DH becasue your married.

Here ANYTIME xxxx


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## minkey114

Grrrrr just deleted a long post.......

Yes I have to admit that mesage was like someone ripping out my heart, to make fun of the total heartache we have been though this year is totally unforgivable.  I have never had a cross word with her I have always kept out of it, so it was totally uncalled for a simply evil    The message you DP's ex sent you is just as disgusting to mock that you have not had children YET is foul - I believe in karma and they will get what they deserve one day.

Just before all the text messages had been sent (following abusive phoncalls) DH sent her an e-mail stating that the only communication between them would not be twice a year via e-mail about dates other than emergencies with the kids.  DH only reported her to the police because I made him, I simply could not put up with it any more.  Anyway I thought we were all in agreement and then he sent her a civil text message about something or other, I just hit the roof, I thnk he can't help but try to placate her.  I am fuming that he went back on our agreement and also cannot understand why he would want to be civil to her.

DH and I are not even talking at the moment, I just need time to think about things, although the recent IVF failure is still very raw so its hard to be rational about it, I just feel that he is letting me down by not protecting me from this extra stress and standing up to her.

Anyway we are still waiting for the police to warn her under the harassment act so we shall see what happens after that, its all very hard.

I feel very resentful about it and I am ashamed to say that I have withdrawn from the kids, this is getting progressively worse and now I hardly ever see them, making other plans when DH has them.  I just can't seem to help it.

Flossey well done to you for not letting the witch win - that takes real strength of character especially when she sends messages rubbing in the fact that you have not had kids YET - we will get there


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## MrsFlossey25

oh honey

I too was in the same place as you, honestly when i left my dp i felt relief that she couldnt hurt me no more but he had the shock and is now so protective over me and never lets her hurt me no more

You really need to sit your DH down and exolain what this is doing to you, i would advise you going away for a few days if you can, write him a letter, oh i wish he could really see how this is effecting you coz i was in the exact same boat and me leaving for the 5 months was the most hardest but best thing i ever did, its changed my partner for the best

afain here for you anytime

x


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## Scouse

Ladies this thread went so quiet I hoped it was because we were all at peace......... how wrong can one person be?

*Biriyani* firstly congratulations - some good news at last! May you and your 'whole' family rejoice in the joy of a baby and may you have the most wonderful christmas together!

*Flossey and Minkey* I am so so sorry for the pain you are going through - all because the ex wants what you have! In the 'lighter' times you realise they are jealous and will cause you pain because they are suffering. But in the darker times - how dare they attack you, you haven't done anything wrong except fall in love with their ex! Where do these women get off? Easier said then done, but try to remember why you got together with your dh's and cling onto that truth beacuse they (the exes) will try to twist the knife every way they can.

I've always come to realise that the dh's do have it hard - they have a woman on either side making demands - on one side, the woman he loves and as yet (in our case) can't give her the one thing she desires more than anything and then on the other side, the woman that has given them the children they adore and love more that anything in the world. The woman who has them by the short and curlies, beacuse it is they that can 'wreck' the relationship between child and dad.
I agree with *Vicky*, try to avoid 'their' domestics as they will only upset you, she has won, and men don't take it as personally as we do.

That was a very long winded way of saying, be strong, remember the man you fell in love with and try, I know so much easier said then done (epsec after eveil texts and police involvement etc) but ry not let their jealousies and inadequacies erode your relationships!

I really hope we can all enjoy a peaceful and loving Christmas. This is the first one in about 15 years that babies and treatment are not on the agenda so I'm hoping to actually enjoy it and relax.

Myra I hope you are ok?


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## MrsFlossey25

Hi girls since my last spoke my dp has got temporary full custody, my dp ex has been abiding the children. The youngest is still in her care but we are fighting to get him too, I'm not sure how long this will take or even if it goes to court if we will rewarded full time full custody but can only hope and pray that the court and social services realise there in danger, my darling step daughter said this morning that now she can live here I can adopt her if only i could

I'll keep you updated 


Much love to you all xxxx


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## Vickytick

To be honest ladies I'm not even shocked anymore by some of the antics I read about which quite frankly is appalling.

Its disgusting that these women were even allowed children in the first place then to use them as pawns in some sort of game. Everything you have discussed we have all be on the end of in some way or another and that is so wrong. All we want is our own unique family why do these women have to be so evil. As *Scouse* has said so well they actually enjoy thinking they've won and 'our men' don't have it that easy. It must be hard having two sides having a go at you - we've had countless arguments over 'her' which is why I'm trying to step away as it really won't help our cause.

Its the nastiness to another woman who is struggling to have kids that I can't fathom out. I wouldn't wish what we're going through on my worst enemy - no-one deserves this - yet we've had the ' you know you'll get pg' and 'get over it lots of people have things to deal with' comments from his ex. We've also never told her we're having IVF or any form of ttc but she knows we struggled to have children as my DH mentioned when she fell pg again (having aborted the first one with the same partner) then I fell pg and m/c last Dec. She can't be stupid enough not to realise that we're ttc yet still the nastiness about our parenting skills- she kicked off because my ss was 5 mins late back last Sunday - keeps on coming.

REMEMBER - they must have sad lives if so much of their time is spent trying to find ways to upset our relationships and annoy our dh/dp's. Seriously they need to get a life and when we do get our own family - in whatever form it takes - we can stick our two fingers up to them because they really will have lost. *KEEP THE FAITH GIRLS *

Vicky
xx


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## Caz

Hi ladies, very quick question to you all.

Is this the right place for this thread? Would you prefer it moved to another part of FF?

I am very concious when we set it up that we were not sure where to put it but figured we'd start in parenting. It does seem, however, that the support you need is more emotional/moral support rather than actually dealing with those littles by previous partner. 

Shout if you think it should go somewhere else and I will move it for you. 

C~x


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## MrsFlossey25

Hi caz

I'd like it to stay here 

X


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## Vickytick

How is everyone coping with Christmas and the stepchildren.

After last year and the m/c at Christmas - yes lovely pressie thanks fate! - I was fine with my family and my two nieces as I was away and could forget about it all. I come home and all the old resentment bitterness and anger comes swelling to the surface literally on the plane home. DH picked ss up the same night and we had to listen to what he got what a wonderful 'family' christmas he had with his mum, grandparents, her partner, his daughter and my ss 10mth old baby sister (how fantastic her first Christmas ) Yes I should be having that joy with a baby but unfortunately I lost mine and the next two treatments have failed. He got totally spoilt - an ipod for a (very immature due to his issues) 6year old amongst other things, a 3d nintendo ds from his grandparents. They've announced they are going skiing in Feb half term and then on a summer holiday. We can't go anyway this year due to both finances and with ttc its impossible to plan.

We had a huge row yesterday with DH telling me I spoilt his time with his son and he wanted to have a nice pressie opening. Failed to see that it kills me him being able to share that when I can't and might never. I'm back to the point of not being able to carry on with it all. I've had to postpone treatment to get my prolactin sorted out but I've waited 6 months already for my 2nd cycle another 3 months is making it harder. I'm sitting in tears    in my pjs thinking I just want it all over with. I'm seriously thinking of walking out and giving up my dream as tbh I don't believe its ever going to work so I'm not sure why I'm trying. I can't keep doing this and watching his ex wife have everything when she is the one who split the marriage up and my husband works his socks off to pay for her and her son. I can't get over the fact she aborted a perfectly healthy child because the relationship was doomed only to fall again less than a year later and now living the happy luxury family life with the same man.

Everyone says that good things go to nice people. Quite frankly that is just rubbish and it seems that nasty people seem to get what they want.

Sorry rant over but the whole ex wife thing is just killing me and next year my hubbie wants his son on Xmas morning to wake up at our house. There is no way in the world I'll be able to do that if I'm in the same situation this time next year it would just destroy me.

Hope everyone is having a nicer time than me with their 'extended families'

xx


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## MrsFlossey25

I had to reply to your recent message. I would love to take away your pain and hurt. 

Why do you feel so resentful of your dh having a relationship with his son? Have you tried to get involved with the son when he stays with you?

We all need the remember that all what goes on is not the childrens fault and there just stuck in the middle also it can't be easy for your dh to keep you happy, his son and the ex 

I know it's hard I too am going through the same but I try my best to work with my dp then to be resentful. All this stress on you won't help tx, and your going to make yourself I'll 


I strongly Recommend you and your dh to go to relate and discuss this together 


I'm here if you need to talk 

Xx


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## mrsmcc7

Hi Girls

I've still to read through all the posts but just wanted to say hi.

I have two step-sons who are 14 and 16 years old and I've been with their Dad for five and a half years (we've been married three and a half years)  DH had been split from their mum since the younger one was two - he didn't want to have another baby because they were struggling financially, but she stopped the pill and got pregntant anyway and it drove them apart.  He loves his boys though, and he's always been a huge part of their lives as have his sister and his parents.

When we first got together his ex was fine with me and we had the boys every day after school and at weekends too.  I had a few blips with not being able to control the older one because he was a nightmare for a bit, but other than that I've never had any problems with the boys and we all get on great.  However, as soon as we got married it all changed and she became the b*tch from hell!!!  At one point she even stopped the boys coming up to ours by telling them if they did their Dad would hit them - my DH is very mild mannered and gentle, and there is sod all chance of him killing a fly never mind hitting his own kids!!!  Anyway, it was sorted out eventually and we have the boys as much as they want to come up again although she has a habit of phoning and telling them to come home for some made up reason all the time because she hates that they're happy at our house and stay for weeks on end sometimes!!

Anyway, that was a rant!! lol  We're currently having IUI (one failed and two abandoned) and we're due to start IVF(ICSI) in April although his ex doesn't know that.  I'm just happy that the boys are at an age where she can't throw her toys out of the pram and stop them comig up to our house if we are lucky enough for the treatment to work, because I know that's exactly what she'd try and do.

Suzie xx


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## MrsFlossey25

Hey Mrsmcc7

My dp's ex is a lot like your dh's ex. but only difference for me is that my step children are a lot younger. if they was older than they would move in with us on a perm basis. my dp is going for full custody after new year

hope your next lot of tx works and you get a BFP

xx


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## A J

Vickytick...I so can identify with you. I know we have met on another thread but I think this one is more appropriate for this gripe and it is a huge one.
I too have huge resentments towards ss and his mother, I believe its jealousy raising its ugly head but I cant shift it.

DH was with his son all Xmas eve which he always does and I think I coped quite well, went to the cemetery to visit my parents grave (not easy), did some last minute shopping etc then the evening with hubby which was great. Didnt have to hear much about his day with his son and the present opening etc as DH has learnt not to go on about their time together and I only ask what I need to. 
Then along came Xmas morning...ss rings just as we were opening our presents and I was feeling emotional anyway. Dont know why but I got upset, DH took it that I was angry that ss had rung etc, etc so we had a massive argument about how I always spoil Xmas and I need to deal with the issue of my jealousy... 

I have never had a relationship with ss since DH and I got together. At the time (5 years ago), ss was only 4 and they were just trying to build up a relationship with each other as his ex had taken him to court to stop him seeing children. His eldest one who is now 11 wont speak to his father while the youngest one he has had to work hard to build bridges. I never was a part of this, DH over compensated with giving and doing for ss and now the time they have together is only for them. If I do see him he doesnt speak unless he is told to and looks at the floor. Both his children have very strange ways, like their mother!!


Anyway, Xmas day we had to go to DH family for dinner which was so difficult. That night DH said his day was awful too, secretly I was glad. I know its such a horrible thing to feel but really cant help it.
I dont know why but sometimes I want him to hurt as much as I do.
We are having fertility councelling and have a session on Friday which Im actually feeling nervous about bringing the issues up again. I have just started the medication for my FET in 2 weeks and am so worried about this failing again and where we go from here. This is a donor egg cycle as my old eggs have failed too many times. The fresh donor cycle ended in m/c in November and am thinking that this is never going to work.
I do wonder what will happen to our marriage if we cant have a child of our own.
In the meantime Im trying to be strong, stay positive as best as I can even if it kills me.

DH about to spend the afternoon with ss again and Im off shopping again- a pattern that repeats itself over and over.

I also think that at this time of year emotions are heightened and in a few weeks it wont seem so bad...at least thats what Im hoping.

  to everyone here xxx


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## MrsFlossey25

AJ

I just wanted to send you lots and lots of hugs, feel for you i really really do

xx


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## Vickytick

*AJ* - I'm sorry you had an argument on Christmas Day I really feel for you. Its like listening to myself talking in the mirror. I feel exactly as you do. Ironically I actually do have a very good relationship with my ss. I don't let my feelings show as he is only a child but on the odd occasion I can't 'handle' it and have a ranty wobble he never thinks differently of me (mind you he is 6). He always ask my DH where I am and rushes to show me anything he's got or done. BUT if my DH and I split up would I be bothered if I never saw my ss - no not really and this is something I've spoken about to my DH. My mum says that you can never feel the same about a step child as you do your own, I care about him which is enough, so stop trying to torture myself trying to create 'love' feelings that are not there. If he lived with us full time it might be different but he doesn't. Its hard when we want to witness that father/child time but with our baby instead we've got to be on the outside looking in. What happens if we never get to be part of that where does that leave our relationships??

*Flossey25* - I admire your ability to be magnanimous about it all I just don't find it that easy even after 3 years together. My DH knows how I feel about it all as we've discussed it alot especially at pertinent times. He tries his hardest but he can't change it. He's getting better at telling his ex no and not jumping to her command. Its my problem and I have to deal with it move on or leave. I think AJ summed it up by saying the time of year heightens all our emotions and brings the fore what we don't have. Most of the time we tick over and put a brave face on for the world.

At the end of the day we love our DH/DP so will find a way of coping. I hope things improve *AJ * xx


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## MrsFlossey25

Vicky

Thanks for your message, think it's different for me while I suffer the same issues with the ex but I have a great relationship with kids and treat them like my own although its hard but do is gong full custody after Xmas as the mother is unfit

Sending lots if love to everyone xxx


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## Flow13

I have only just found this thread - I never realised it was here.   

Reading through all of your posts, I realise how lucky I am even though I moan a lot. 

Here's my story - 
I got with dh in 2004.  He had been seperated from his ex wife for about 9 months. Dh's children were: 4 year old daughter, 7 year old son and 10 year old daughter.  They are 12,15 and 18 now. DH had a vasectomy not long after the youngest was born.  When we first go together we never really talked about having children as we were too wrapped up in ourselves.    From the very beginning I got on well with the children, although in the first year of us being together dh was doing a lot of running about for his ex.  He would lose a lot of time from work. One day she called him out of work to get some calpol from a shop as the youngest had a cold. It was things like this she would do all the time    I think his ex wanted to make her status clear - that she was the mother of his children. 
Anyways, they got divorced at the end of 2005 and we planned our wedding.  We also made sure the children were part of our day, and they were. And now we have been married for 5 and half years.  The children used to come to us every other weekend, but as soon as we got married we asked if they would like to come every weekend and they said yes. So after 5 years they are still coming every weekend and I love having them. I look forward to Fridays so much. 
I have a really good relationship with them and we are all really close. We go on holidays together. Every other year they have Christmas with us, and the year they aren't they come for new year. 
I can't really say I have a relationship with his ex, because we rarely speak or even see each other. In fact dh doesn't really see her.  We pick up the children on a friday, but they are old enough to pass on school/guides letters and give us messages etc. But, we all have mutual friends and in the past year on 3 seperate occassions different frinds have told us dh's ex has said she couldn't have asked for a better stepmom for her kids. 
Last year for Mothers Day  dh's ex took the children to get cards for me. One of them said 'You are like a mom to me'. So even though we don't really talk, there is no animosity between us at all. She is their mom, I am their stepmom. The kids have said I am just like a mom with a different name.   
I am included in school presentation evenings, parents evenings. I have even drove SD and dh's ex home from hospital after SD had an ear operation. We will all attend the same parties, but just keep a distance. The children are all fine with it, and they just flit between us, and their mom and her partner. 

Reading that I realise how blessed I am with my situation. Although, I do want my own children so much. xxxx


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## jimjam183

Hi ladies...

Ok, not sure if anyone goes on this anymore but thought I'd post this just in case someone's reading....
Well, since my last post a lot has happened..... And thought my sharing this might help someone reading...

Things came to a head with my SS at the end of last year/early this year... The ex basically ensured he hated me and both SS and the ex were backing my DH into a corner to get him to exclusively spend his time with his son and cut me out of the picture... All manner of allegations were hurled at me to push me out of the marriage and out of DHs and SS life... We ended up with breaking point, especially after our 4th BFN...

Well DH and I decided to go to relate for some family counselling... The ex would not consent to allowing SS to join, so DH and I went alone... And what a turnaround!
It been amazing.. The counsellor was so lovely and so understanding of our situation, and very much helped us see each others issues and needs for what they are. She has massively helped me to rebuild a relationship of my own with my SS, which seems to get better week by week  and the 3 of us are having some enjoyable times together too.... 
DH has been encourage to take over the discipline side of things and set up and stick to boundaries and he's been encouraged to handle the ex more appropriately too.... I think it helped having an outsider (an expet if u will) putting our fears at ease and teach us new compunction tactics! Changing our behaviour has in turn improved SS behaviour towards us... The difference is amazing!

All in all we have a much happier family... Of course we still have our ups and downs, (what family doesn't!) but we are working through it in a much more productive way!

The icing on the cake.... We had a 5th IVF cycle recently and got our first ever BFP! (only just this Wednesday!) 
SS doesn't know... We will wait until we're confident it's all for real! 

So life has turned around massively since this time last year... I wanted to post, in case someone was reading... Getting help was the best thing we ever did... Scary at first, opened a whole can of worms, but so much better now! DH is not the type to do such a thing but even he agrees..... We wish we had got help sooner!

Lots of love,

Jimjam xxxx


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## Biriyani

Blimey-that is just fantastic!  Congratulations on the BFP - hope you have an enjoyable pregnancy.


I'm so glad it's all going well, and I'm really impressed at the effort you put in to make that happen.

My DS is nearly 1 now, and I have to admit that I really struggled for a while with being a mum and a step mum, but I think I've sorted out the balance now.  Just need to get DS to sleep at night and all will be well...


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## jimjam183

Great to hear from you biriyani 
Can't believe your ds is nearly 1! 
Feels like just yesterday that you were near your due date!
I can imagine getting that balance between mum and step mum could be quite tricky... I have no idea what's to come! 
Hope you're managing to get some rest in an amongst those sleepless nights!

How's the ex responded to the arrival of your DS? I'm a little worried about that side of things. 

Xxx


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## Biriyani

First full night's sleep for a year last night!  Hoorah!

Jimjam - the ex was fine because she's already had 2 more children herself.  I think the hardest thing for me is trying not to let the DSDs feel left out.  They are both really nice but I can tell that they sometimes wish DS wasn't around taking their dad away from them.


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## Vickytick

Hi ladies

Biriyani that's fantastic that its all going well. I imagine if I ever get pg and stay for 9 months my ss will struggle as his mum has a 18th month and is due again in Nov ( exactly when I was due but I mc in April again) and at our house he has sole attention as his mum's partner also has a girl of the same age as ss. He has his dad to himself. 

Jimjam funny you should mention counselling but with a mc in April and another failed IVF in June it has all knocked me over the edge and we really struggled. I resented ss and even more his ex as she always falls pg at the same time as me except she carries to term and I mc!! We are starting counselling this week to help us start dealing with the fact we might never have a child of our own and how I deal with having ss remind me of what I can't do..fingers crossed it helps like your dh mine is not into that but has agreed to do it


Nice to hear updates as I miss the chat  

Xx..


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## Biriyani

Vickytick, I'm so sorry you're having such a tough year.  I still vividly remember feeling such confusing emotions towards the dsds when treatment failed - kept telling myself I should be glad I had them, but at the same time felt trapped and resentful.  And so many people told me I had the best of both worlds...hmmm....thinking of you xxx


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## Vickytick

Thanks. 

Not sure about the best of both worlds I hate hearing ss keep using the word Daddy, throwing himself at my DH  and telling him how much he loves him then DH responding.  It feels like a massive kick in the gut. I know I'm the adult and should be able to handle all that but it hurts like crazy that its not our child and someone is not calling me mummy and telling me how much they love me..I don't think anyone can understand that its doubly hard, this journey, when you are in a relationship with a partner that already has a child. If you are childless together you are approaching the journey in the same way but we are not. 

Someone how we will get through this and yesterday our first counselling session was a success and DH has agreed to keep going so that's good and I really believe that it will help us.  

xx


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## jimjam183

Vickytick, like biriyani, I too had some very confusing emotions towards my SS especially after BFNs. 

I felt shut out of their little world and saw my DH, SS and the ex as though they were a family and I was the outsider. The ex is very good at making that point very clear and has even stated that I am not Ss's stepmom, I am JUST DH's wife! 
My SS has a knack of being especially clingy and all "i love u daddy" when he's over and he has tried v hard to make it exclusively his and his dads world when he's over.. I used to resent it so much... Not his love for his dad... But the over the top clinging and over the top constant need for physical affection from his dad, as though he was trying to send a message to me to say "he's MY daddy!" I would get blanked in conversations and towards the end driven out of my own home as he was out and out hostile towards me. I have never felt so alone and unloved. I nearly packed my bags and left DH altogether as it felt that DH was supporting and condoning his ex wife and sons negative behaviour, leaving me feeling chewed up and spat out and worthless. All feels so much worse when you have trouble TTC... I felt undeserving and as though I had failed as a stepmum, so why do I deserve a child of our own! I totally feel your pain right now!

Counselling did help me to understand and manage SS behaviour in a more healthy way and it helped DH to manage from his end too (DH very much pandered to SS and ex wife's games) I also learned to manage my own reactions and emotions towards SS.. Do u know... I was beginning to hate him!

Honestly, stick with it... So glad your first sessions went well. I can't believe how much all that negativity has just melted away and day by day I have more and more affection for my SS. We are closer as a family and I believe DH has a closer, healthier relationship with his son.. Me and SS are much closer and DH and I have a much stronger relationship... It almost as if we needed to sort our family before we could get our BFP... Yes, of course we still have our ups and downs... What family doesnt! But we are able to resove issues and work together! I actually look forward to seeing ss now, and he seems pleased to see me too! Stick with it, keep an open mind. You are doing the right thing! It saved our marriage, and I'm sure has poss had a hand in bringing some peace to my mind and body (it was all making me ill!) and eventually maybe even helped us get that BFP. Who knows?!

Might even go back to help us with the next stage on our life... Telling SS that he's going to be a big brother... Want to make sure we support him in the right way and cope with any fun and games from the ex. We will wait until 12 weeks b4 we tell him... But would quite like the support and guidance from our relate counsellor... Things are so settled with SS and he's only just started secondary school. I'm worried about unsettling him again.... Must be hard for him too. 

Hang in there Hun. You'll get there xxx


----------



## StephyC

Hi

I am new to this forum, and like many of you on here I am TTC. My problem is that I feel so alone in this journey. Hubby has a son from a previous relationship, so doesn't really feel the same way I do about TTC our own child. At 36, I have never been pregnant, never had a child, and am finding things really difficult. 

I'm not eligible for IVF because Hubby has a son already - as if THAT makes up for my lack of children... we only see him once a fortnight for the weekend! But he isn't my child, even though we have a good relationship (he is 7).

I have to make the decision to either have surgery or a course of fertility drugs, and Hubby has taken a step back because it is my decision, but I really don't know what to do. Having just started my period for the 18th month since TTC, I guess I am feeling a little more upset than I would at another point in my cycle, but right now, really do wish Hubby was a little more supportive. It's not that he doesn't want a child with me, it's just that he can take it or leave it, and doesn't understand my need to be a mum - rather than a step-mum to another woman's son. 

Would love some advice /encouragement/jokes etc... from other step-mums who are TTC.

Thanks for reading my post

xx


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## elli78

stephy i know exactly how you feel. it does feel like such a lonely place doesnt it. my stepdaughter is eleven. although we are unexplained i always feel like it has to be me with the problem which has made me feel inadequate and properly fed up and less of a woman. irrational i know.....most of the time but it can sometimes get too much. try speaking to yu dh and explain how you feel. easier said than done with such an emotional subject but im sure it will help. i wish i had the answers for you. your not alone i promise you. much love xxxxxx


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## StephyC

Thanks for your reply Elli. I've spoken to hubby on and off over the years, but he's from a small mining community in the north and is well known for not talking about emotional stuff. None of his family do really. There are times when I've really needed him to understand, but it seems to go over his head!   I know it doesn't though coz I hear him on the phone to his mates about our situation, so I know it affects him, but it's as if he feels he has to be strong for me. I think he's getting fed up of my random tearful breakdowns each month though. 

If you don't mind me asking, how do you cope with being a stepmum and watching your DH with your step daughter Sometimes I really feel as though I'm missing out on special moments, which hurts... do you know what I mean? 

I don't thinl it's irrational to feel like you do... I think it's normal. At least it is for me too.
x


----------



## elli78

hey. ur prob right men do try to stay strong and not let u see them being upset by the whole situation. i know my dh feels a certain amount of guilt for having a daughter as much asche adores her. tbh it has got easier with my stepdaughter. ive had a few times in the earlier days when i couldnt bear to see her. i also felt like her mum was better than me coz at least she is fertile.... horrible but fertile. ive struggled with my stepdaughter when shes asked if we can have a baby so she can be an older sister... it breaks my heart. how do you get along with your stepson? xxxx


----------



## StephyC

We get on really well... he has this habit of sitting in the middle of my legs when I curl up on the sofa, and he often will ask me for something more than his dad. I know our relationship will change as he gets older, but at the moment, it melts my heart and makes the longing for my own child so much stronger. I was dreading him coming at Christmas, but it turns out Hubby was ill, so he didn't come, I kinda felt relieved! In an argument a few times last year, I shouted at Hubby to go back to his ex-gf and have more babies... I felt so useless at not being able to conceive, so I know what you mean about feeling like the mum is better.


----------



## Missy123

Stephy and elli hi ladies I know how you are feeling.    My stepdaughter is 19 in April and we don't really see each other now. They grow up too quick as she was only 4 or 5 when I met her dad.
This is all really unfair on us, especially when we are penalised by the pct for being step parents. It's not our fault is it?
We never knew we would be in this position else we would have grilled our hubbies more about their past before falling for them!  
Hope to speak soon as battery low on tablet now.    We have each other to moan to now.


----------



## StephyC

Hi Missy,
It's not our fault we are step mums, and I can't believe we are penalised and expected to be content with part time involvement with someone else's child! I want to be a mum, not a stepmum!!! I love Hubby to bits, I know he felt really guilty when the consultant said that... I wouldn't want him to change his past, but I do wish I'd met him earlier!!!!!!!!!! Lol!
 xx


----------



## Missy123

We could probably all say if only! The thing is we are here now and have to do our best with what we have, stay strong and   that we will get our own chance of being a mum soon. Not that I am looking forward to teenage years again!


----------



## elli78

hi missy 
best of luck with your tx this time - what a journey you've had - i hope 2013 is your year.
i know what you mean about the teenage years... i sometimes feel like they will be here before i know it with my stepdaughter... scary - esp as we dont have that much control over how she is brought up. part time involvement doesn't feel enough to influence things if that makes sense. 
i know my dh has commented that he feels like its his punishment that we can't concieve as he had a child unplanned wtih someone he didn't love and consequently married her.. that marriage didn't work and he feels like he had his chance to be a father and blew it by leaving her mum.. although i'm not sure what i've done to be punished ! -) 
we are having her for half term next month - that will make me a bit sad i'm sure.. it always seems to fall on a time when af is due and i have to have my meltdown in secret if you know what i mean as i'd never let on that me and her dad would like a family.. i stick to saying maybe one day when she asks if we will ever have a baby.. she thinks we should as she says me and her dad are fantastic together and she thinks we'll be together forever.. i must admit i thnk its lovely that she sees us as a stable influence in her tlife as she doesn't really have that at home. - it does make me think that i'm lucky to have a wonderful husband and would a baby ruin that.. 
i mean we're lucky to have each other anything more would be a bonus. . . 
then on other occasions i find myself so damn angry at the injustice of infertility and people popping them out when they really shouldn't ..

sorry am rambling now... will sign off.
love to you both. xxxx


----------



## Caz

Hello Stephy, welcome to Fertility Friends. 

Being a stepmum while TTC with fertlity problems is so hard.  I too was denied NHS tx becaue my DH had children from his first marriage. They were both in their 20s by the time we started down the IVF route. I was hardly "mum" to them.  
We ended up doing egg sharing, which helped to pay towards the costs of tx for me. Otherwise it would have been game over because I never would have been able to afford all the treatment I needed to get pregnant in the end.

I also found that DH was quite blaise about the whole thing. At points he frustrated me like crazy but, as he explained, it wasn't that he didn't want to have a child with me, but he simply didn't think about it constantly - which, as you know, we tend to - so he seemed more relaxed about the whole thing. When the chips were down he always came through and supportive me all the way when it really counted.... ok well, there was that one time on the last cycle when I was making a meal out of my trigger jab, asked for help and he was too busy killing Roman soldiers on his computer game to help me...    When our son was born (after 9 years ttc and 6 cycles of ICSI/FET) he could not have loved our little man any more and was an awesome daddy. There's a lot to be said for having a child with someone who's "been there done that".

Ladies we do have a thread going for those here who are parenting step children and strggling with fertility issues and TTC. It's a bit quiet at the moment but I think we can revive it and get a good supportive discussion going if you would like to check it out. have a look here: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=270035.90

 to you all.

C~x


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## Caz

Hello all, long time no posts.  Just wondering how everyone is and what's going on in your lives right now.  

I am due to become a Step granny soon.  Notreadynotreadynotready!  
Over the moon for my stepson and hiw wife, sad my DH won't be here to be grandad, sad it's not me having another baby (does that feeling ever go away?  ) but determined to be the "cool and hip" grandparent among us all.  


How's things? 

C~x


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## jaykay76

Hi,

I've only just found this thread. I'm a step mum to a 20 year old, after getting together with her Dad when she was 11. I'm lucky as I get on well with my Step Daughter, after a few ups and downs along the way. During the last 2 years, I have undergone 2 rounds of fertility treatment, and lost 2 babies, one at 22 wks and another at 7 wks. Previously to this, we had been trying for 3 years. I'm about to start IVF again.

My fertility journey hasn't had really impacted on my step daughter (she doesn't really know much about it). But, I have found that lately I have been envious of the relationship my Dh has with his daughter. Envious because he is a parent, and I'm not, they are very close, and I find it difficult sometimes not to be able to relate to that closeness. I feel guilty about feeling this, is it a normal reaction? I don't know any other step parents to relate to, so kind of feel on my own!

J xx


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## Flossy996

Hi ladies

I'm in the same position as you all and like you, struggle at times. 
My DF has 4 children already. 3 of them are now over 18 and only one is still s child (11). She is absolutely lovely and we are like best friends (when she was 7 she even asked if she could call me mum!!!) but like you said, she is not mine and it is disgusting that we get punished for our partners already having children. 

My DF is very supportive but I think it is difficult for him to understand my situation completely as he never had to try for any of his others they just happened. He also doesn't seem to get how painful it is that I can't give him children but another woman could. 

The only positive I take from this sometimes hard situation is that when we finally get pregnant we would have had lots of experience with our step kids which will make us even better parents :0)


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## KaitsWishOnAMoonbeam

Same boat here too ladies. 

Df has a 14 year old so we we're denied funding. 
DF's son doesn't call me his stepmum which is something we agreed on when me and his dad first got together when laddie was 8 - his mum was killed in a hit and run and it just didn't feel right for either of us to be using the 'mum' name as it felt like replacing her, so now im just his guardian (or bossy aunty type person as he explained it a few years back   ) We get on pretty well most of the time but he can be a stroppy teenager who fights back a lot on occasions but thats to be expected. 

DF's seen me through my tears and heartbreaks everytime the witch showed her face and friends and neighbours have announced their good news. He really wants this IVF to work but he's very 'make the most of what you have' so it doesn't weigh as heavily on him as it does me. He always says he's got me and laddie and another one would be a bonus  

When we get there we'll have all that extra experience which can only be a good thing xx


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## KaitsWishOnAMoonbeam

Been here over a year and never knew about this thread either.

Good luck with the IVF jaykay and hugs for your angels   

I'm guardian to a 14 year old , we don't use the step-mum name as an agreed decision between me and DF's lad after his mum was killed in a hit and run (before me and his dad got together). I've been in his life since he was 8 and yes, we have our fair share of arguments but i do love him to bits even though i could happily leave the teenage hormones out lol. 

Me and DF have been trying for a baby of our own for four years and so far nothing, not even a hint of a bfp. Found out he has got really poor motility and morphology so are going to be having ICSI this year with any luck, should have been last year but abnormal smears and a worried consultant for me and surgery for him put that on hold until now. 

I think the feeling guilty is pretty normal as there is times i feel exactly the same, sometimes loving them as if they are yours can only make you long for one of your own. It does with me at least.


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## Vickytick

Hello ladies. 

Ah yes being a step parent whilst ttc or your own is never easy and brings all new complications. In my case bitter ex with a new family (she gets pg everytime I do but I mc she doesn't) and a ss with aspergers. I feel horrible at times when I get sick of the mummy this and mummy that, when he's all over my dh and telling him he loves him, the heartache in dh eyes when he h takes him back and my inability to give him what he wants  - a child full time. My ss is not an easy child to bond with and I admit I find it hard. I'm jealous of the ex but I'm working on that. We fund her lifestyle and she has what I want and stops my dh seeing his son on a whim so her bf an play dad. BUT I believe we are all stronger people or coping with this as well as ttc it's v difficult and never underestimate the impact it has on you. 

It's great to meet like minded women. We are not evil just struggling to get what we want. Xx


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## elli78

all the best kaitlyn. it is hard i think men process emotions differently to us girlies. wishing you luck. xx


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## elli78

hi vickytick. i never knew this thread existed. its a relief to hear someone else saying the things i feel. my dh has a crazy bitter ex who uses his daughter as a weapon - always has done tbh. its bloody hard at times to contain the emotions isnt it. love and luck to all you ladies who are keeping me sane xxx


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## StephyC

Hope you get lucky, Kaitlyn xx

Men do seem to process this situation in a completely different way. I read some of the other posts in other forums, and it seems like the guys are really on-board and supportive of what their wives are going through! I guess we are just tough cookies and can handle the situation!! Lol!   

I'd never thought before about the "practice" we get as a step mum, we get to deal with some of the issues children have as they grow up, including fussy eating, sickness in the middle of the night, difficulties with homework, life, bullies at school etc... rather than learning as we go along. As a first time wanna-be mum, I now see this is a valuable training ground!!! Thank you for highlighting that - soooo blonde sometimes!!!

Flossy, I totally get what you mean about the pain you feel. One day you will give him the child you desire, and you won't change in his eyes - only in yours... I think we will all rise in our own estimation of what it is to be a "successful woman" when we compare ourselves to our other half's children's mother. Our men love us for who we are, the don't love us any less for what we've not YET brought into our lives.

For the first time in ages, I finally feel a sense of contentment in my situation. Does it take everyone this long to relax into being a step-mum TTC??

xxx


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## StephyC

Caz, thanks for directing us here too.

I think most of the mum's seem to use their child as a weapon, my Hubby has been in tears of frustration over some of the things his ex does and says, and refusing to allow him into his DS's life! It upsets me, as someone TTC - the child is the most important aspect of the decisions both parents should be making, but often, the hurting jealous mother makes decisions regardless of the affect it will have on their child. My SS was stopped from coming to our wedding even though he was going to be the ring bearer - and he knew his role, he had tried on his suit and been to see the car we had hired... now when he looks at our photo album, he says, "my mum wouldn't let me be there". He'll point at one of my Nephews and say, "That's what I would have carried, isn't it?" It's absolutely heart-breaking!

Did anyone see that Dispatches programme the other night on Channel 4 about "Sharing mum and dad" It was quit interesting, and quite eye opening - a shame some of the women who need to hear the father has rights won't have been watching it! 
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/episode-guide/series-118/episode-5

x


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## StephyC

oh... Just out of curiosity, has anyone else ever woken up in a cold sweat that when you get pregnant, your SS (or SD) suddenly turns on you and punches you in the belly to try to hurt your baby 

This has happened a few times to me! My SS is Hubby's only child (his mum has another DD from another relationship), so when he comes to us, he gets both of our undivided attention, and loves it. I remember once my MIL asking him how he would feel if he had another brother or sister through his dad and me, his response was that he didn't want any siblings. I think was when I started to get the nightmares!  

x


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## Vickytick

*stephyc* ditto not on the nightmare but how my ss feels at ours. He hasn't actually said it but you can tell by the delay tactics on a sun night and how happy he is here. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying he hates home just that they always have people around and when his mums partner 7yr dd is staying there is 4 children (5wk baby, 2yr, and two 7yr olds) its fight for attention time. At ours he has no one to compete with except the puppy lol but he gets a lot of dad one on one and time to play quietly. If we have a child my dh will need to spend time with them as he works longer hours so my ss will find it hard and it worries me as we want to do adoption if IVF fails but I'm scared he might say he doesn't want anyone else here. Where does that leave us?

X


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## StephyC

Vickytick, you have to do what you want for your own desire to be mum. I do worry how my SS will be, but at the end of the, and maybe I am being totally selfish here, but my desire to be a mum is stronger than wanting him to feel comfortable and happy at ours. All children love having the undivided attention of their parents, it's only natural. I think it will be hard for Hubby as he will need to learn how to share his time evenly, and not let his ds feel at odds when our own baby arrives (in faith!).

Hope your IVF is successful... babydust for you xxx


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## End

Hi stephyc

I too am a step mum and TTC for the first time. My husband is supportive fortunately, however because he has 2girls already I don't think he can completely understand how it feels to be in a situation where, in our case ivf is the only option. I'm very lucky to have a great relationship with both my step daughters, but like you say, they are another woman's children and can't compare to having my own even though i do treat them as if they are. I had blocked tubes and was advised to have them removed to give us the best chance of successful ivf so I had the op in oct 12 and have since been saving! We are now just about there and ready to start in march. We've been trying TTC for 4 years now, we've spent a lot of time reading, or at least I have, and I can't believe we are now going to be moving on to treatment. I hope you get lucky xxx


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## Caz

Welcome to all the new people here. 

I do think some interesting points have been raised. I think - for me - at least part of the desire to have a baby of my own with DH, was because I wanted to have that bit of him too, if that makes sense. My DH's first wife always had something I didn't; she was the mother of his children. There's no possible way you can compete with that... except by having your own.  Sounds a bit screwed up but I do think it's part of the reason it's so difficult to cope with infertility when your partner has children already. 

C~x


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## KaitsWishOnAMoonbeam

Caz you hit the nail on the head for me at least. There is just no comparison plus in some cases you miss the little years of them growing up so it can be even more heart-wrenching to come into their lives when they don't need you as a 'mum figure' as much. 

Laddie has switched his feelings on us having another one so many times in the last few years. Now he understands how i feel with it all and that we can only have this one shot with the IVF he's all for it... although he's said he's not moving rooms if we have more than one


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## StephyC

Hi Rachd, welcome 
Hope you are doing OK after the op, you must really excited to start your treatment soon - hope you are successful, please let us (me) know, I will pray for you 

Caz, I totally get that, I sometimes look at my ss and see so much of my dh in him, in his mannerisms, in the things he says, I sit there and wonder what our own child would be like. I don't know dh's ex, so I don't know how much of her is in my ss, but I would love to know which "bits" of me would be in our own child. It can upset me if I think on it too much! 

And I agree with Kaitlyn too... being a stepmum, I haven's obviously been around for the baby / toddler / developmental years... I want to know and experience it for myself!!! Nothing can beat the feeling of being called "mum" I see it in my sis and friends. It's different! It's what we want!

xxx


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## elli78

hey ladies i agree. to be called mummy to a child... not my dogs would be unreal. i dream that the ex hits me in the tum when or if im ever preg.... must be a stepmum thing!  xxxx


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## Vickytick

Can only agree with you ladies especially Caz. It's wanting a mini me and dh that I struggle with. As you say he will always have that bond with his ex as she gave him th child that I can't. But I'm lucky in that dh wants to adopt if IVF fails. I know tis isn't our biological child but it'll call me mummy the word I'm desperate to hear and we will raise him/ her together.

X


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## Vickytick

I know it's been a while since anyone posted on here but I need to let out how I feel in relative safety. I not want people thinking I'm the child catcher, wicked stepmother etc. I really not want to be judged by people who have no idea.

We've been trying for 3 1/2 years now and 2 mc,failed ivfs are all taking its toll. His ex is something else and won't leave him alone telling us why we should be doing with ss even though she has 2 more children with another partner.

My biggest problem is even after 4 years I just feel nothing for my ss if im honest i dont even really like him and if i never saw him again it wouldnt bother me. He has aspergers so is very emotionally closed and a v diff child to like. I'm starting to resent him being in my life. I know I am adult but I can't help it and its now causing probs for me and dh ( although I've never told him the depth of my feelings I'm not that much of a *****). Everyone says I knew he had the child when I married him but I didn't think I'd still be trying for my own child years down the line. I know it'd be easier if I had my own child. 

It's so upsetting and it makes me feel like a horrible person but I'm truly not I love little kids I just wish I could feel something for his. It's even to the point if we don't have kids can I live with this child for the rest of my life.

Please please don't judge me I'm not evil just struggling. I do pen time with him alone but it doesn't help.

Sorry I just needed to let it out.

Xx


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## Lilly83

Hi girls, 
I hope you don't mind me joining? I'm currently try with my partner, whirlwind romance but guess when you know, you know! 

I have a 5 year history of infertility with many known problems and it might be donor eggs are the only way for me, anyway dp has a 1 year old daughter, he sees her once a week, she lives in a different city to us so he drives over every sun, sleeps at his mums Sunday night then has the lo at his mums house all day and comes back mon night, we have had problems with the ex, he isn't allowed to bring lo to his new home town, to introduce her to me etc, ex says it will confuse her seeing different women (like he has more on the go!) 

Anyway as I'm going to be a permanent fixture in her life but have been unable to build a relationship (although I have met her once) I have tried doing things so when she is older she knows I was in her life from the start, got her a handmade frame for her room at her nans made with her name in, for Xmas a big photo frame for baby's first year with a photo of her and her dad for every month of her life, and for her first birthday I sent up a direct debit to pay a tenner a month into her account until she is 18 and wrote a lovely note to go with it.

The problem I'm having is as seeing her takes him away from our little life it feels like he has to lives, of course I'm glad he sees her, he pays his way etc, it just kills me every Sunday when he goes and all the infertility stuff gets to me more, I see what he has and what we will never have, I am also starting to resent him a little, maybe it's me I don't know but in the early days he used to watch videos of her on his phone all the time when he was sat next to me, hours after finding out I have a low egg reserve etc, and every week he posts hundred of photos of her on ******** and everytime I open my phone it's him beaming being the doting dad with his baby, is it me being over sensitive? Or him? I said to him is the most important part of his time with his daughter posting photos, he saw it was hurting me and stopped for a while, but this week I cried Sunday morning on his shoulder seeing all the family's doing stuff with their kids on ********, I said family times really hurt me, come Monday he is posting loads of photos of her, he asked if I minded which I said a quiet no, but he knows I'm struggling with it, I don't know what to do

Help!? 

Sore if there's typos I'm on my phone

Thanks 

Lilly xx


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## Missy123

Lilly so sorry you are struggling but know exactly how you feel.   It probably won't get any easier either until you are allowed to be in lo's life too as that is added pressure between you.
I have stepchildren too, 19 and 22 and the last 14 years have been a challenge. Getting excepted and not being piggy in the middle between them but it will work out eventually.  
You sound very understanding but you always need to talk and say how you are feeling so it dosen't come between you.
You are important too remember that.  Good luck honey with your journey, hope all works out.


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## KS1

I have been in my step childrens lifes since they were 3 and 5 and now they are 16 and 18 and the 18 year old has completely lost the plot with me, mood swings, crazy arguments and now refusing to come to the house.  Its very hard.


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## mandymoo12

Hello

Been on this site for a few months but now only just found this thread. I wish I'd found it earlier. I haven't managed to read through all the posts yet,but will be sure to.
I have been with my husband for nearly 6 years. We got married May last year. He has 3 children. 15, 13 and 10. One of the pre requisites for us to get married was I wanted my own child or at least to try. I wanted him to want one too. He now does and we have been trying for 18 months now.
We have been going to a fertility clinic for nearly a year, on clomid, but no success. No other problems.

We have also, in the last 6 months gone through a pretty nasty custody battle for his children. The oldest one lived with him already, but the other two were desperate to live with us. We won, so now we have the three step children pretty much full time. Oldest one sees his mum now, middle one never, youngest one ocassionally.

One of the hardest things throughout the custody battle was she kept bringing up that we couldn't conceive and I wanted to steal her children because of this. It was so upsetting because as much as I love them, they aren't really young kids and they come with their own teenage problems I could do without. In fact, I probably want my own child even more having them around than if they weren't. My hubby and I, are already so restricted that I really want my own baby even more..
Anyway, there is so much more to say, but I won't bore you. Anyway, it's weird. Because I love my step children to bits and even now right now they don't want anything to do with their mum, she will always be their mum (rightly so) and I will only ever be their step mum.


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## mandymoo12

p.s. - my husband spent £7000 on the custody battle for the kids. I don't begrudge him this and I fully supported him throughout the court case as I knew the kids wanted to be with us so desperately, but we really can't afford IVF privately now


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## Molly99

I really do get what you're saying about the money Mandymoo.  I completely do understand my husband's commitment but we have to pay nearly £10,000 a year for his children and travel to pick them up every weekend.  We have absolutely nothing left and I am constantly in debt because he can't afford to give me much towards our house and bills, so I cover 80% of it by myself.  It is incredibly hard and I spend more time in debt than out of it.

As a result, we have nothing that we can put towards IVF, the tiny bit that we did have we had to put towards reversing his vasectomy.  When times are bad then this is very hard not to think about.  Especially right now when we're trying to change access arrangements with his ex due to my SS starting a new school meaning that we can't drop them off on a Monday morning anymore.  It's what's right for us and the children but his ex won't even discuss it.  As it is, if we ever get this sorted, it could cost us another £1000 a year.  Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Everything seems weighted in their favour sometimes.  I love them, I'm very lucky, but it's all so challenging at the moment because I have to sacrifice my future family for my DH's and their needs and that seems so unfair.  I hope that we get through this stage quickly, it's forming some deep resentment at the moment


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## A J

Hi ladies...I hope you don't mind me butting in. I have been following for a while and did post a long, long time ago.

I totally understand what you ladies are going through. My DH has 2 boys from his first marriage but has so much 'baggage' around it that it gets in between us. He has no relationship with the eldest now 12 but sees the youngest who is 10 every week. His ex has never encouraged the eldest to have a relationship with his father and therefore DH is full of hurt about this. I feel like I get it taken out on me at times when he comes back from dropping the youngest off and a blank from the eldest. DH then turns it around and gets angry at me because I have no relationship with his youngest (all this own doing as he has over protected this son from day one and never wanted us all to be together in 'their' time right from the start). So, I get left with an angry DH a lot of the time and I am left with huge resentments towards it all. The money that goes to his ex, the time that is spent with the son and how our marriage is run on anger and resentment. We can never just go away for a weekend or plan things as it has to fit in with his own family.
I have struggled to have a child of my own and have even failed using donor eggs! Plus, I have paid everything for fertility treatment- over 35K so far, not a penny from him as there is nothing left after he has paid his ex and taken his son out every week  

Sorry, I realise that I am rabbiting and offloading a load of rubbish here  

AJ xx


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## elli78

Aj i get worlt url saying. Im often left with the angry d.h its so hard. His dd was a mistake and he did the quote right thing and married the ex..... divorced her and lost everything. Im the main earner and feel like im gone pop.at times. Work is stressful.enuf without everything else... i need a holiday... if only xxx


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## mandymoo12

Wow - it's heartening to know there are so many people in our position.

It's so sad that we will be the ones to have to pay for fertility treatment when the kid will be theirs in the end. My DH is always telling me to sell my house that I rent out to pay off my debts and pay for stuff which I will probably end up doing soon, but once that is sold and I have spent the equity then the money is gone. I was actually hoping to use that money to pay for my maternity leave as I would like to take a year.. But that is just a dream..


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## A J

Just wanted to drop by and say hi   hope all is well?

I have just come back from Spain where my FET was cancelled last minute due to my lining breaking up. DH wasn't with me and I actually really enjoyed the 10 days on my own. It really has made me think- should I just go this alone....no, just negative thinking atm...I'm having a bad day

AJ xx


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## JoJo7

Hi ladies, hope you don't mind me joining in.

I've been reading through this entire thread from the start over the last few days and can't believe how much we all have in common. I guess in comparison to some if your situations I am very lucky as I get on well with my  5 stepchildren and get no grief from their mum. However I can totally relate to the feelings of inadequacy, jealousy and resentment. I've not got time to share my full story right now (skiving at work - lol), but since I've just finished reading the thread I wanted to pop up and say hello and I hope I'm not too late to join in as I see there are often long quiet spells on here?

I'll pop back later and share my story so far.

You're an inspirational bunch of ladies  

Jojo xx


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## Molly99

Hello lovely ladies.  I am needing a bit of stepmother solidarity today, I hope that you don't mind a little sob story.

Sometimes, the complications of loving a man with children just seem a little insurmountable.  It's like we have to pay for all of the hurt, lies, tricks and outcomes of our DH's lives with their ex.  Everything that they lost control with in their past is suddenly clamped down on with little negotiation in our lives.  

I'm waiting for the fifth time for my DH to come back to me on whether he really does want a baby with me.  I know, I can hear exactly how that sounds  .  I have given him far too many opportunities to consider this in our 4 years  together.  

His past is that he has 2 children with his ex.  He is adamant that he had no choice in their conception   and that has made him incredibly wary and negative about having a child with me.  I used to let this go but I'm not having it any more, he was there at the time of conception and had every choice to have unprotected sex from the moment that he got with his ex.  It was hardly surprising that she got pregnant after a month.  Ditto this happening with the second child and an abortion of their third.  His ex already had three kids with two other men, so it was pretty much odds on that she didn't use contraception and was pretty fertile  .  Facing up to his responsibilities in their conception is an important part of him letting go of the anxieties that he is imposing on us, he's just not having it yet.  

He is also struggling with the intensity of our infertility too, maybe more so as it is due to male factor that we cannot conceive and maybe he realises how stupid he was to have a vasectomy when he was already breaking up with his ex.  There is a lot of pressure on him though, I am a runaway train and trying absolutely everything possible now, particularly as I am now 39 and this is my only chance with my low AMH and history of early menopause in my family.

Anyhoo.  We have had 2 months of horrible stuff happening about how he lets the ex infiltrate into our life together, of excluding me from important milestones in the kids life (I don't need to be involved but he promised that he wouldn't deliberately not tell me about stuff) and of changes to access and money which are always going to be stressful.

Out of that, he has got from me that I am a pretty aggressive and nasty person because I have struggled with all of the above and have been trying to conceive at the same time (vasectomy reversal).  Are there any bio fathers in new relationships that don't try to impose their rubbish as it being all about the stepmother and her inability to accept the kids?  I sometimes wonder.

I love my stepkids, it is difficult but I love them and care for them as if they were my own - which of course they are naturally not.  It has been a rocky road to get here but we finally did and then he threw all kinds of [email protected] at me and expects me to not bat an eye.  

So, because we've had a very intensive tumultuous period he is again unsure about whether he wants a baby with me.  We are just waiting for our first IVF appointment.  In the past, when he's wanted time, I've given him weeks or even months in some cases to decide what he really wants.  Now we are here again.  It is the last time that I will do this, I gave him 24 hours this weekend as we have a consultation this week.  He refused to answer yesterday (he won't be pressured), told me that he'd come to a decision this morning but that he won't tell me until tonight.  

I'm climbing the walls but fine.  It's what he needs to do to feel like he's in control.  I can't believe that we are here again though.  Every time it's stressful - BECAUSE OF HIM AND HIS EX - I get another review about whether I'm good enough to have his child.

I do get it, I do understand how difficult it is for someone who has made some major mistakes in his life to not worry that he might be doing the same again.  But why is it so hard for a bio father to see that it's really difficult to be a stepmother and that it doesn't matter if it's been the same for years and always will be, I'll never be 100% happy with the ex controlling our lives (and that is him letting that happen too).  It's just an unrealistic expectation that it is possible to placidly and blindly sit by without having a view on things that affect us, like changing access and possibly doubling our CSA payments when we have absolutely nothing and are already in debt and borrowing from my Mum for a once only chance at IVF.

If I were to stop at every stressful time and say, hold on, I need time to consider whether I really do want step children then he and the whole world would come down on me like a tonne of bricks.  Yet it seems to be reasonable for him to do this time and time again because of his past mistakes.

I am just so nervous and frustrated today.  Either way, this is the last time that he is going to have the opportunity to do this.  I'm not sure what his decision is going to be, he was really sweet and affectionate yesterday but then when I asked if he had made up his mind this morning his voice was harsh.  He inadvertently said a possible hint, he asked when 'I' was going to the clinic, not when 'our' appointment was.

I think that I am going to do this alone, if he decides that he doesn't want a baby with me I will find a donor.  I am 39, I have waited 4 years for him to finally come around to having a baby with me, that's long enough.  I don't know where that leaves us  .  I don't think that I could live with the jealousy of him having a family with another woman (who he claimed to have hated) but refusing to have one with me (who he loves).  I don't think that I could cope with the kids, even though I love them too.

He has many, many faults but so do I.  Ultimately, I love him and want to stay with him. I know that he loves me, he's just absolutely atrocious at anything emotional.  He genuinely does feel that he's justified and that he needs to do this, even though why we're here is entirely his fault this time.

Sorry ladies, this is a really long one.  I just need to get it off my chest, this is just so hard sometimes.  I can't post this anywhere else or really tell anyone else because I know what they will say - either they'll ask why I am with him and do I really want a child with him, or they'll say that he has kids and needs to do what's best for them.  Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

I thought that maybe some of you might understand how difficult it is to love a man with children.  Thank you for listening, I just feel like I need a bit of a hug xx


----------



## Biriyani

Oh blimey Molly99 - sounds like things really are tough at the moment.  I hope you've had the decision by now and it's the one you want.  

I'm not very wise and can't offer you an amazing way forward, but just wanted to say I know just how you feel - for me it was probably more having to force DH to marry me, rather than the kids thing, since it was my issues that gave us problems with conceiving, but I had that same feeling of having to pay for all his previous mistakes.  

Anyway, I'll be thinking of you at this tough time xxx


----------



## Caz

Blimey Molly, what a lot to take in. Big  coming your way as requested. I do understand the emotional baggage thing very well. My DH came with tons of it too - although not about children but about trusting me even though I'd never even thought of another man while we were together.... well, ok, maybe Brad Pitt but c'mon!   

I think your DP could benefit from some counselling, to be honest. It sounds like his "bad" experiences with ex and having children is having a very negative effect on how he's living his life right now. He sounds pretty terrified and I don't think he even knows what he's scared of. 
You've been extremely patient with him though; I was going to suggest that you go ahead with a donor (or at least threaten to) anyway if he's not willing to commit.
I hope he's given you the decision you wanted to hear.  

C~x


----------



## mandymoo12

Oh Molly,

I know how you feel. Not that I'm suggesting you do what I did, but it took for me to leave my DH for him to realise what he wanted.

I was 35 and knew I wanted a child and as much as I loved him, I didn't want him being the one to prevent me from having one. So I left him. I had some fun and then a month later he came back saying he wanted to marry me and try for a baby. 6 months later we were married and 2 years on we are still trying. But at least we are trying.. And if it doesn't happen I will never be able to blame and resent my DH.

Good luck Molly x


----------



## Molly99

Thank you, thank you, thank you for getting all the way through my pity party, for listening and for sending hugs!  I really appreciate it.

What a few months it has been, we've been through pretty much every mill in the country I think.

I have my answer, although he thought that I'd asked a different question   and that I'd asked him to be my donor instead.  Good lord.  The answer was pretty much meant the same though.  He wants a child with me, but he is taking a risk (yup, at least he's taking the same risk with me as he did with his ex though . but he loves me and wants to make it work.  

I'm happy with that and ecstatic that this is the last time we'll have to be here.  Life is a risk but you have to take them to fully live and it's only a real risk if he can't see what a numpy he's been!  xx


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## A J

Ladies...can I ask how you have managed to build up a relationship with step children when struggling to have your own. I really, really struggle with the fact that they exist let alone manage to have a relationship with them...any advice or thoughts would be appreciated. DH has 2 sons, the younger one who is 10 he sees once a week. The eldest one who is 12 doesn't want to have anything to do with DH (their mother is a bit of a control freak- long story) so never helped build their relationship. When DH sees his youngest I make myself busy and they go off and do their ownthing so in the 7 years we have been together very little contact has been made by myself and SS. DH hates this situation and sometimes gets angry that I don't want to hear about his children and what he has done with the son when they have been out- but I don't!! I have paid for all the fertility treatment (over 35k) as he has no money left after his ex wife has her bit and then he spends loads on his children (even the one who doesn't speak to him). I can't help but be bitter.

Has anyone managed to find a way through this?

AJ xx

AJ xx


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## utb

Hi Ladies think I posted many moons ago will try and catch up and read back through the thread I just stumble back across whilst having a quiet few minutes at work and thought I would respond.

AJ it is a crap situation to be in whilst you want to be supportive to your DH you also need to concentrate on self preservation.  I have 3 SD's two of which lived with us full time until they went off to Uni and youngest lives 50% with us and 50% with her Mom.  Striking a balance that fits all parties is extremely difficult I understand it is hard for you to hear about things your DH has done with his son it cuts deep I struggle with conversations about what happened before the split holidays and christmases etc etc.

I have for the most part a fairly good realtionship with SD's although dont get me wrong there are times when I wish it was just me and DH life would be so much simpler.  unfortuantely we cant help who we fall in love with its difficult to take on step children it takes a very special person to be able to accept another persons child all we can do is try our best.

Have you ever had any contact with SS I know its hard but what about maybe once a month trying a couple of hours and seeing how that goes and then build up whos to say that in time you could end up having a good relationship.  When you have your own LO would you want them to have a relationship ? it maybe worth starting to develop one with SS now ready for when you have your LO.

I hope you dont mind me posting the above as I say its a crappy situation.

Sending all you wonderful step parents big    and hope that our patience and perseverance pays off.

x x x x


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## Molly99

Sigh. What is it with bio-fathers?  Dh thought that a good time to talk about the bm texting him was when we were travelling up to our first ivf appointment and fertility scan. Instead of being contrite and apologising when I said that we'd discuss it the next day as today wasn't the best he boards the I can't do anything right train.

Then talking about it today he says we need therapy because he can do no right and because I said that it is uncomfortable having to talk about him having existing children during our ivf consultation

I agree that we need therapy but he wants it because he thinks there's something wrong with me for finding this hard or uncomfortable. 

Bloody men


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## JoJo7

Hi ladies, hope you don't mind me joining in.

AJ - have you tried spending time with your SS on your own? Nothing big to start with, just a half hour here or there. Find an activity that you can maybe take him to and share together? It might help if you can begin to build up your own relationship with him away from feeling like the "third wheel" with your SS and DH. It's easier said than done I know, and it might be met with resistance to start with but worth a shot? I take my sd horse riding and it's my thing to help her with her homework when she's at our house. It's been a slow slow process but when she turned to me and told me I was "kind of like a mum" to her "coz if the stuff I do" I nearly cried and felt such a rush of love that I didn't honestly think you could feel for something that wasn't technically yours 

Good luck xx


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## utb

Molly I think going to see someone would be great and will be a realy eye opener for your DH and hopefully will help him look at things from your point of view.  Luckily for me DH and the EX only commincate through email he hates the woman so future weddings etc are going to be fun NOT.

Step Parents cope with so much as we cant challenge parents or children if that makes sense so we are left in really poo situations.

I posted a thread with regards to step children and having donor treatment but as yet no one has replied just wondering how people have handled the telling and not telling.

x x x x


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## A J

Thank you utb and Jojo for your thoughts re SS. I do realise that I will have to take the plunge at some point- even if it kills me to do so. Whenever I do see him it seems that we have nothing to talk about...I ask the usual questions-how's school etc but not much comes back except when DH prompts him to answer me. It's a strain! But, I will try as yes, hopefully he will have a brother or sister one day.

Utb...I will try to find your post as it is something I have had to think about too. Also, the fact that DH will have another biological child, whereas I never will- a difficult one to come to terms with.

Molly...wow, sounds exactly like things with me and DH. We have had the same conversation on many occasions. I too found it (and still do) difficult talking about the fact he already had kids during consultations. We can't even talk about adoption together as he says I have a problem with his kids and until I 'get over it' the adoption process would never work. We have had fertility counselling and even in those sessions I have found it difficult when the subject comes up as I feel I'm made to be the wrong one.
Therapy is defiantly worth trying though as we have become a lot closer and more understanding- all be it the issue with him having kids hasn't been resolved. It really is worth giving it a go x

AJ xx


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## Molly99

Starting medication for our 1st and last ICSI in 6 days and counting.  Soooo nervous but excited.

I am feeling completely overwhelmed by it all at the moment, searching around for drug quotes, trying to anticipate days when we'll need to be in London for scans etc.  Oh, does this get any easier when you finally start?  I hope so!

I'm having big wobbles about how easy it was for my DH to have his two kids.  Urgh, why do we have to cope with the green eyed monster on top of all of this.  How do the rest of you balance your emotions, I'm finding it difficult not to think about how hard this is and how easy it was for them.  Feeling like a big wobble is coming  .  Is it natural to find it difficult to not compare?


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## Caz

Molly, all sounds very familiar and (depressingly) quite normal I'm afraid. 

Yes it does get easier when you actually get started because, at least then, you have a fairly rough list of dates and you will at least be able to say "by xx date I will either be pg or not". 

Wishing you loads of  for your cycle.


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## JoJo7

Yeah Molly I can totally relate to what your saying. Some days I feel really emotional and have the big "it's not fair" rant to myself in my head. It's hard to deal with the resentment that can pop up when I think how easy it was for him and his ex and how we'll never have that shared experience of trying to conceive naturally due to the vasectomy and all that it brings 
We also have one shot only at ICSI (due to finances). Good luck  and enjoy the hope that tx gives you  xx


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## Biriyani

Jumping - we didn't tell the DSDs about our treatment as it was happening - we decided that we wouldn't have told them if we were trying naturally so we kept quiet.  Then when I finally became preggers one DSD asked how come we had a scan of the embryo, so I told her.  The other one hasn't asked so doesn't know!  Oh - I did also have an op to try to sort my tubes out so they had some vague idea that something wasn't right.  The one who asked is old beyond her years when it comes to emotions, so I felt totally at ease talking to her about it (she was 12 at the time and said "that must have been really hard when you found out you couldn't have children"!).  Just relieved the other one didn't ask...


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## Molly99

I'm having terrible trouble with jealousy ladies.  It's causing huge problems with my relationship but I just can think of nothing else but DH and his ex having babies together, what it was like when they found out & all the glorious detail in technicolour.

Every advert, every time she contacts (which is pretty much every day again at the moment), absolutely every little thing sets me off again.  I can't control it and I'm obsessed  .  My DH's actions a few months ago would have caused us problems & jealousy anyway I think but our ICSI was also delayed another month.  The closer and then further away that we get from our IVF the worse I seem to be getting.

Feeling very pessimistic and I can't shake it  .  It feels like this isn't going to happen & I don't know how I can live with the fact that it's not so important to him anyway and that the only real thing that he'll be upset about is that it will cause more problems in our relationship.  

I'm so embarrassed for feeling so me me me but I don't know how to cope if this is it for us.  DH wants to move on and enjoy the kids but all I think I'll ever see is that they are his kids with another woman.  How do you survive with such a huge rift if you have to give up dreams for love?

We've talked about therapy but it will never take away the fact that we can't have a family together.  I've got some major issues about this from childhood, coming from a family of just 3 blood relatives....now 2....one of which has a terminal illness.  A blood family is the most important thing in the world to me but I fell in love with a man who can't give this to me.  I can't leave him but we're really unhappy.

Help me ladies, I'm just feeling so miserable and it's rocking my relationship


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## JoJo7

Oh Molly99 you sound really unhappy and I just want to give you a big hug.   
It's not easy I know and I doubt very much that the feelings of jealousy and resentment are going to go away on their own.  Perhaps it would be helpful if you had someone that you could speak to - someone entirely just for you where you could be completely honest and not have to filter out anything that you were saying for fear of upsetting anyone.  I know someone recommended relationship counselling and I do think that would help but perhaps you could spend a little time looking after YOU first of all - to help make sure you're in the right place before trying to work on your relationship.  Relate are relationship counsellors but you can go to see them on your own initially and then perhaps have joint sessions with your DH a bit later on when you've had the chance to make sense of some stuff in your own head?  

I know what you mean about constantly thinking about the experiences that Dh will have shared with his ex.  I recently came across a photo of my DP holding his youngest daughter in the hospital minutes after she was born.  I felt like I had been punched in the stomach and did actually feel physically sick - pretty much cried all the rest of that day.  I just have to keep telling myself that there is nothing I can do about that - he has had those experiences and that is part of what makes him the man I love today.  MUCH easier said than done I know -  but dont beat yourself up if it takes you a while to change your thinking.  Dwelling on the past he has had with his ex doesnt help - it keeps us feeling sad and negative when really we need to be feeling and thinking positive if we are to get through tx with our sanity and relationships still in tact!!!

I too have spent many a day torturing myself by imagining what it was like when he foudn out she was pregnant, what the birth was like and at one point I couldnt even watch "One born every minute" without it making me think of them and how it might have been for them.  It does not help - in any way.  Focus on what it will be like for YOU if you get a BFP - what YOUR birth and labour could be like and how he will behave towards YOU and YOUR baby.  It will get easier - if I can do it then so can you.  But dont beat yourself up if you have a wobble every now and then - I have them and I just accept that tomorrow will be a better day.

Hope I've not rambled on too much and that you can make some sense of what Ive tried to  say.

Big hugs 
Jojo


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## A J

Molly 99...I so understand how you are feeling... I have jealousy sometimes that kills me. You are not alone.
Such wise words from JoJo, thank you that helped me too.

I have had counselling both alone and with DH and to be honest I get more by being alone as I even resent spending the time sitting talking about his kids- I hate the fact he has them and an ex wife who has his children, takes his money, controls his time thoughts feelings etc.
I could go on but I know if I do I am the only one hurting... She knows nothing and he just carries on regardless!!
I am learning to  live my life for today and to stop dwelling on bitterness as its all consuming and life is too short. I will not let his ex and children control MY life!!!!

Keep looking forward in a positive way...hard sometimes I know...believe it will happen for you and take the power back

A J xx


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## jimjam183

Molly... It's been a long while since I was on here but I still follow the thread. 
I wanted to reply as what you wrote really rang true to me and I imagine so many of us on here. 
JoJo and AJ talk a lot of sense. 
Long story short , I have a 12 yr old SS who lives with us part time and whose mother very much tries to control our lives.... At one point even the meals I cooked whenever he's with us (she doesn't like him having curry at our house as he apparently "stinks" when he goes home to her!)
Anyway... I too have been consumed by the same feelings as you. Vividly picturing all those precious memories they might have had etc. Do u know... I'm sure those feelings added so much extra pressure on our marriage and my drive to conceive.. I do wonder if it possibly might have impacted on my cycles. 
Well... After 4 BFNs I was at breaking point. I resented my SS so much for just even existing! His behaviour towards me was appalling too. Our marriage was at breaking point. 
DH and I went to relate.. Do u know, they were fantastic. We mainly went to improve our home life with DHs son, but the infertility aspect came up lots too. 
They did work with my feelings about DHs history and life experiences with his Ex... Yes, the sadness of missing out on the same with him did still exist, but with much less resentment and obsession. I was much more at peace with it all and our home life improved massively. 
We tried again for our 5th cycle and got our BFP and now a beautiful 5 month old daughter. Don't get me wrong... SS still is difficult. His mother still plays havoc with our relationship with him. I still got upset when he demanded all of DHs attention when our DD was born.. But we seem to cope with it all much better now. Perhaps the sessions at relate had nothing to do with our ivf success... But I will say, it certainly helped with that pressure and resentment!

It is so hard battling infertility anyway. So much harder when teamed with the difficulties and feelings that come with step kids. You are not alone. 

Wishing that all your dreams come true! 

Jimjam xxx


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## Molly99

You're right, I am so sad at the moment.  I need to do something about it.  I found out yesterday that my thyroid levels are now fabulous and I can definitely start ICSI this month, in 6 days time in fact  .  Sadly, DH and I were in the middle of yet another row, so I called my Mum & sister and bounced with them!

DH and I are living parallel lives, when I talk about us he talks about his kids and ex.  Instead of chittering excitedly about us when our medication arrived this week, he started a row about increasing CSA to his ex by a 1/3rd.  I found out that we're definitely starting ICSI this month, he stopped speaking to me because I finally cracked when he asked me a difficult question about his ex and pick ups 3 times without reading my responses.

Sigh, all I can do is sort myself out isn't it.  I'm starting to think that he simply can't see things from someone else's perspective.  In fact I've known that since the 1st night of our honeymoon (when we told me that he had no empathy for me being upset when he brought his daughter to sleep in our bed.  Bad enough, particularly so because I was also naked).  He's who I married though, perfect in so many ways, appalling with emotional support & empathy.

Thank you for letting me get these things off my chest.  It's so massively important to have someone to talk to that understands how complicated this is.  Onwards & upwards, I'm excited!

JimJam, it's amazing to hear more positive stories of Relate.  It really worries me that a counselor will come down on the step parent and say that we have to just accept everything and that it would make our relationship so much worse.  The more I hear, the more reassured I feel that it will be balanced.

EJ, fantastic that you've joined!  It's such a lonely journey, the more the merrier.  It sometimes feels like we are totally alone and that everyone is against us having our own babies.  It's incredibly hurtful to realise that people think that way but it absolutely isn't right and your step daughters are behaving terribly.  I hope that your DH is strong xxx


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## Molly99

Hi EJ, I'm so sorry that your situation is hard too.  The pressure on stepfamilies with infertility seems particularly high and harsh.  We end up taking the brunt of it from all sides.

I hate DH's ex being so involved in our lives, and it really is constant.  The stress that my DH's mobile causes when a text notification comes through is horrible, I just know that it's her and 99% of the time it is.  I'm looking forward to when the kids are old enough to contact themselves and we don't need her as an intermediary.  When that happens though, it seems that the chances of them turning into selfish monsters like your steppies is so high.

I was a stepchild too and I honestly don't remember ever making my stepdad's life miserable, being jealous or resenting him.  Though in hindsight, I must have driven him mad  .  I was elated when he got together with my Mum because I was so happy to see her happy.  I can't understand your steppies being so cruel.  They've surely become independent and have their own lives, so why wouldn't they want their dad and you to be happy? 

We have the kids every weekend and are forever having to change plans to fit around the ex making plans for the kids on our time with no consultation.  Yet, we need a weekend off for our scan and she pulls every guilt string possible to make it hard.  She said that DH needs to be open and share why if she's going to agree to it.  The awful thing is that DH is desperate to keep her happy and told her that he agrees that he needs to share more with her and that he considers her in everything that we do.  It makes my skin crawl.

It's the ability to be in charge of your own life that really gets me.  I've spent the last 20 or so years being in control of my life and schedule and now suddenly it is being controlled by another woman.  We can't plan anything and any slight changes to contact that we need to make for our treatment are stressful and involve DH getting upset and worrying about the impact on his kids.  I remember the days when I could plan to do something at the weekend and I could just do it, without having to double check with an ex about whether it was ok.  

Ah, those carefree days that I totally took for granted    If we didn't download then I think that we'd go crazy! xxx


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## Cranky Angie

OMG I'm so happy to see this thread as the stepchildren and infertility issue is something I haven struggled with for years. Sorry I don't have time to read all your stories right now (have to get to work) but just wanted to say I have experienced it all!! I struggled for 2 and a half years to conceive DS in which time I had to put up with 2 stepchildren who often didnt like me very much and an ex wife who pretty much make mine and DHs life as hellish as she could. I swear the stress didnt do much for my IF. Then when it came to doing  ivf cycles we couldn't ever do them at holiday times which made things doubly difficult. DS was born and things got a lot better but then we struggled for 7 years to get number 2 (I am 5 weeks pg now and got everything crossed that this one will so work.)  I always hated the fact that DH first wife gave him 2 kids and we only had one. It sounds stupid and other people have told me I'm wrong but I always felt that she had one over on me. And I always desperately wanted a sibling for DS as I was an only child and I have found that tough in life, although I don't have a great relationship with my mum so that doesn't help. 
Anyway, just wanted to share my story. Not sure where you are all at now but would just like to say, after 11 years together I now have a fantastic relationship with both of my stepkids, especially my stepdaughter who is now 18 and amazing. She constantly tells me how much she loves me and how I'm the best stepmum ever. So wherever you are at in your journeys it is worth persevering. And my DS actually worships his older half brother and sister too. As for the ex wife. Well I tolerate her, now the kids are 18 and 22 I don't see much of her anyway. 
Hoping to get to know you all soon. 
Ange xxx


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## Cranky Angie

Hi EJ, and hi Molly. I have just read through yr stories a little and am so sorry you are both going though a tough time, and suffering with IF on top of that sometimes just seems too much to bear I know I have been there. And it appals me at how manipulative these ex wives are and angers me that the men are often too weak to stand up to them. I know, my DH was exactly the same and the ex wife and the kids got away with blue murder whilst I would be treated like a second class citizen. Everything has worked out brilliantly now as I said, but given my time again I would not have entered into a relationship with a man with an ex wife and kids, it's just too stressful and too horrible what you have to go through. You really need your man on side to deal with the issues but often they are not cos they are so pathetic about their kids (understandable I suppose they love them so much) but it doesn't do their kids any good. My stepson is now 22 and I love him to pieces but he only ever phones his dad when he wants money. But that is what his dad created with the constant indulgence and giving in to him all those years. 

Anyway EJ you are not a failure as a woman, I think you are an amazingly strong person to deal with all of this and I hope that yr DH appreciates that one day.  And sorry molly you feel like you are going through all this ivf alone. Because my DH already had 2 kids he has never really been bothered about more. If it had happened naturally then fine, but I have had to fight him every step of the way to do ivf and have had to fund most of it myself which makes me quite resentful when I think of all the time and efforts i have put into his kids. But at the end of the day I knew what I wanted (a family of my own) and I just had to deal with it on my own. It has made me a much stronger person and if he had refused to carry on the ivf I would have left him and carried on alone. I have spent too much of my life trying to please other people, I am not doing it anymore. 

Good luck to you both as you go through these cycles, I really hope they work for you. I must say things do get better when you have your own child as you and the child become a bit more central to everything, and it makes the stepkids grow up a bit, so hold out for that goal. 

Ange xxx


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## MissMayhem

Hi, just posting to see if I am as alone as I feel currently.  Have had two failed rounds of IVF and can't get any more on NHS, at the moment can't afford to go private either.  We've been seeing an holistic guy and spending hundreds a month on supplements that should help 'balance' us and help us conceive, no joy yet though.  I totally underestimated this whole fertility journey and before it had a really close relationship with my SD.  More recently though I'm getting to the point where I can't bear to be around her as it's so painful.  I feel dreadful as I know it is not her fault and I should not be taking it out on her but try as I might I just can't seem to shift how I feel.  It doesn't help that she's close to teen age and is becoming extremely emotional and demanding, not to mention manipulative and controlling.  Previously I would have invested a lot of time in explaining things to her and helping her understand things but I just have no emotional energy left.  When she starts about something I'm just opting out as I simply can't be bothered with it all.  We've just had a drama around dinner as she had changed her mind about liking what was made; I've had my period today after praying for the last two weeks that a miracle may have happened so am not best placed I know, but told her not to be daft and just eat her food, which resulted in tears, refusal to eat, undermining by a hubby and her then going upstairs for the past two hours and calling hubby up to tell him she 'doesn't like the way she spoke to me'.  This is also a child whose mother has 'negotiated' everything with her since she was 5 and who behaves equally manipulatively to avoid confrontation with her.  

I know all the logic, she's pubescent, she's learned to be controlling and manipulative, she doesn't like being told, I'm grieving, I'm pre-menstrual and, therefore, devastated but even knowing all the logic and knowing that I should be more patient with her I just can't be bothered.

Feeling so hurt and angry and just wanted to see if anyone else out there is in the same boat and has some words of wisdom?  I know I've pmd some people in the past and that helped but am feeling so angry and powerless this time around that things feel a lot worse.  I just can't be bothered with any of it any more  xx


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## Molly99

Oh MissMayhem, parents struggle to cope with their own children when they become teenagers!  Having to live in a household with one (or more if we're really unlucky  ) and have little say about how they act or just not have that maternal instinct that makes you love them even when they are shockers, is incredibly hard.  My SS is a lovely boy but he's 12 now and really coming into the special teenage years where everything is boring and he's just generally grumpy  .  My SD is luckily amazing and still a cutie at 9.

I remember the food issues very well  .  When I first met my DH, the only thing that they ate at their Mum's was pasta with cheese on it.  We are both big foodies and love cooking, so we had all sorts of tears and tantrums at dinner time.  Your DH should have presented a united front with you no matter how he felt, you could have discussed it outside of your SD's ears if he disagreed.  He should be supporting you in your role and showing that you can't be divided. 

We've been TTC for 4 year now and have been through two cycles since November and it has amplified every difficult feeling and emotion about being a step mum and being in a relationship with a parent.  Many, many times, my DH has forgotten that he is a husband as well as a father.  We may not 100% be a parent but it is still our home and we still get to shape the rules and it is absolutely right that we get to show how we feel.

This would have been a difficult weekend even if your SD wasn't there, the fact that she was must have made it even harder.    It is a shame that our husbands can't see that and see that IVF doesn't end as soon as you've had the transfer.  It gets harder if anything afterwards, no one can go through what we do and just push those emotions to one side for the weekend.  It doesn't work that way.  

I begged my DH not to leave and take the kids on a mini break on my test day, full on sobbing snotty nosed begging.  If I was mean (which I feel like being  ), I would say that his mother planned it that way and guilted him into leaving me on the most important day and to leave me to do it all alone.  It must be difficult in families with existing children when you get a BFN, but at least you would feel more comfortable and perhaps even able to tell them that you were sad (even if you can't say why).  

I was really worried about my steppies seeing that I was down recently, I was even more worried that it would be reported back to their Mother.  It did get back to her and she told my DH that he needs to cheer me up by doing something nice for me (urgh, lovely if it was meant to be lovely but waaayyy to familiar!).  It's horrible but I guess that it's better than constantly being expected to lie and I don't think that she guessed why at least.

I never thought that I would get to the stage when I hated my steppies leave but I really do now, life feels so empty without them and especially so after two failed cycles.  I felt exactly the same as you before this though and I had to completely detach from them for it to happen because I just wasn't coping.  It has taken my DH and I a lot longer to start acting as a team  

I really get the feeling that you just don't have the energy to do it any more.  This journey takes absolutely everything from you and sometimes looking after someone else's children (especially when they are our DH's children and we can't have any with them) just requires too much.  I think that when you feel that way, you really do need to take time out and let your DH take the strain for a while.  If your SD lives with her Mum most of the time then it seems very unreasonable to have her with you at the end of your 2WW, life in a step family is all about compromise and it goes both ways.  

I guess in terms of patience then the best advice that I could give was would a bio-mum be patient all the time?  You're only human lovely.

Sending you so many   xx


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## artist_mum

hi Miss Mayhem - and Molly

I think we have PMd before now, and i TOTALLY sympathise with you.  I have SS of 14 and SD of 10.  They are here alternate weekends and one week night - both requires school drop offs which are not local to us.  I fear that as you say, once they are teenage, especially with girls, the manipulation becomes very difficult to cope with. My heart goes out to you.

I too used to spend a lot of time and energy comforting the children when they came here and things were difficult with their mother, or as recently, she took my DP to court and that has caused stress etc etc. I wanted to help the children, explain things etc.  You try so hard to think about how it is for them - but at some point and particularly with the incredible stress and strain of IVF, you do HAVE to think about yourself.  I too have withdrawn the level of support for them and in recent months DP has had them stay over at 'granny's' place instead of here, and even when they are here I have tried to go out with my own friends a bit more and not make the whole weekend about them.  It's hard to know what to do for the best.  I think SD particularly finds it confusing that i am not around as much as I was - but i had to preserve myself otherwise I would not find the patience to respond properly when I was with her.

Like you, i have felt more often now that i just can't be bothered with it.  Not with them - they are nice little people, but they are children and they are demanding.  And we have just finished court on Friday (hurrah!) so it has been a difficult time.  Plus I am mid cycle for our last try to have our own child.

So i can totally empathise and only words i can offer are:

-  Don't be hard on yourself, it is 100% natural to feel the way you do.  The step bit is very difficult to navigate, so is IVF.  Put the two together and it's a big ask of any human being.

- Speak with hubby about the undermining.. this happened twice now in front of the children here and I have said that of everything that i have to deal with, it is a showstopper for me.  If he does not support me 100% in front of the kids, then I don't want to do it.  You are the main couple in her life when she is with you so working on your relationship and strategies for step parenting is important.  Although i can tell you SO many times I just wanted to walk..  

-feeling powerless is such a big issue in this scenario of step parenting.  That's because we are to a certain degree.  We cannot undo the poor parenting that may have gone on, we are left with the result - and no way to take control as we are still not the parent!  My opinion has changed over time on how to deal with that - and i now don't try so hard to 'guide' them which sadly means I don't want to spend so much time with them.  But perhaps it leads to a happy medium in which it is not totally about them when they come here.  I think that is healthy anyway, that they see DP and I have a life too  .    I try to remember that it is their father they come to see rather than me and that they have a mother whom they love.  And also, much as I enjoy them and the times we have together, I want my own family!

- Please don't forget that he and you came together in love and that your family (IVF, adoption, fostering….) is really important.  You have every right to focus on it.  And the two of you can navigate step parenting by talking through strategies.  Don't be afraid to tell him you need his help as well as acknowledging how hard it is for him too.

- last thing: books that guide you on what to do, perhaps check the library.  I've had some good tips from them.  Can give you names if you want recommendations.

I'm sending you a huge big   from one step mum to another.  We KNOW how hard this journey is!

xxx


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## MissMayhem

artist_mum and Molly99 thank you so much for your responses.  They both made me cry but feel that the tears have helped give me a well-needed release today, they're free flowing at present so can't really gather my thoughts but just wanted to thank you both and will respond properly once I get my head together as think AF is going to visit me with gusto tomorrow.  Thanks so much for the  and kind words xxx


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## artist_mum

Pleasure  

And I hope you feel better very soon 

xxx


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## Wisp

Hi All,

I am a Step-Mum too, SS 10 and SD 6. I am so glad that we three will understand how each other feel.

MissMayhem, I am sorry to hear that you are having a hard time at the moment. The thought of my SD becoming a teenager actually fills me with some dread, I hadn't thought that far ahead!

I agree with both Molly and Artist_mum, a united front from both you and your DH is key. This is how we work things and it has become very solid, I always feel like we are a team that cannot be divided, I feel safe that way. However, I have REALLY, REALLY struggled at times with being a step-mum and still do, for a long time I hated being referred to in that way and would say to my DH "I'm your wife and you just happen to have children", I didn't want the role of being a step-mum, however when they come to stay every other weekend you realise you are in that role whether you like it or not, the children put you right there!! Like my supervisor said to me once "well you voted with your feet when you married him" and although I was really annoyed with him at the time, I came to think, well yeah I did so unless I want to leave him (which I really didn't) I had better try to get on with it!

That said I think we have to think of ourselves in it all and that affects how we 'get on with it'. Sometimes I want to go out and do things with my DH and the children at the weekend but at other times, when I just get my period , feel tired or low I definitely don't want to, so now I make that choice, depending on what feels right for me at the time. Initially my DH struggled with this, he is quite black and white about things and would prefer it to be one way or the other, but I have explained that feelings aren't like that and I am not going to go if I really don't want to, as I would end up resenting them all. It's also nice for him to have time with them on his own, I'm sure they love not having to share the attention with me.

When it was at it's worst I used to dread them coming to stay, I would just feel like I didn't want them there and while I was driving home on the Friday they would be due to come, I would feel like I didn't want to go home and when they would knock at the door I would shout in my head "go away!!". It made me feel so horrible, sometimes I felt like I hated them. I knew it wasn't really about them, they are great children and they love me, but I just felt invaded and they are a reminder of what DH and I don't have together.

Now it is easier, I am not sure what has helped, but talking about it with some of the women I work with has been very helpful. They are not judgemental at all (thank god, I am sure some others would cast me off as an evil stepmother!) and understood, so I could just say exactly how I felt. Thank god I could talk to them, as I wasn't on this site then and don't know how I would've managed! I also talked to my DH about it, which was hard, but he did understand and always tries to make me feel better.

Molly, the stuff about reporting back to the children's mother has also bothered me, like if me and DH have a bit of a bicker I don't want that getting back! I also had an incident where my SD said to me _"you cant come and see my bedroom, do you know why?" "because my mummy doesn't really like you". _ I felt so angry and hurt, I didn't respond in the childish way I wanted to "well I don't like her either", but explained that sometimes it is hard for people when the person they used to be with is with someone new and that was probably why her mummy said that. I felt sorry for my SD, as these things shouldn't be said to her, her mum doesn't even know me, she has never met me, she wont meet me! I had nothing to do with their breakup, we met well after that, but still.

Anyway I've gone on and on!

Take ace of yourself MissMayhem, sending you a big hug


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## Wisp

P.S I meant take care!!


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## Molly99

I think that we will always pay for the break up    DH broke up with his ex 2 years before I met him and the children were still told that it was me who split them up   

Being a step child myself, I know how tricksy and naughty parents can be and how they can use their children to hurt one another.  I will never, ever do that and I hate it that his ex does (and DH on the odd occassion).  The not coming in your room comment Wisp is terrible, that could only have come from the mother.  It is so sad that the children feel that they have to take sides.  I think that my worst one will always be my SD (6 at the time) told me that I shouldn't have nipples because her mum told her that I would never have a baby (clearly she knew this as DH had a vasectomy when with her).  Sad on all sides that one  

I think that my steppies growing up really helped.  When they are able to have a two way conversation it becomes so much easier to get to know them and form a relationship outside of anyone else.  I can't imagine how hard it must be going straight into teenagers, who seem to have forgotten this skill  

I've gone from almost panic attacks every Friday when they arrive to looking forward to them coming.  Like Wisp though, there are times when it is really tough for one reason or another and I really need some space with my DH.  I think that we're getting through these though and we have negotiated 2 weekends off a year for nice stuff for us.  Seems a bit odd when I write that down!  For my DH though, his children and needs as a parent are as non negotiable as IVF has been for me.  I guess that we have to compromise somewhere and we're getting there.  Step families are just a very different set up to bio-families though, my DH misses them so much that he would never consider a baby sitter and going out as a couple when they are here.  It's hard sometimes but it's been like it from the start.  

Saying all that though, it has been one of the major reasons for this being so hard.  Trying to go through IVF when every single important appointment falls on a weekend without fail has been a nightmare and has given me some lasting trust issues about how committed DH is.  Sometimes things can't be balanced so there is absolutely no impact on him and the children.

I think that infertility is particularly hard in step families.  It's important that we can talk to people who understand because I think that we'd all run off to the hills screaming sometimes.  I married DH and his children, no one ever took me to one side and told me how hard it might be sometimes though and what it all really meant.  Surprising really, perhaps my Mum really should have stepped in at some point (if only so I could have told her that she didn't know anything  )


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## Lilly83

Can I join you, I have a 3 year old step daughter and I really really struggle with it, me and DP got together when she was a baby (they had split when she was pregnant) she is 47 to my 30 and 'apparently' got pregnant first month of trying, she has 3 children to different men ranging from 3 to 24! 

I find it so so hard, he leaves me for a couple of days every week to see her as she lives in a different city so stays there, I don't begrudge him time with her at all I know they need it but being left several times during our ICSI and otd was so tough, how do you stop the negative feelings? Does it get easier?? 

When we found out I needed donor eggs he would sit on the sofa looking through pictures and watchig videos of her I would be holding back tears all the time, her mum doesn't want her seeing me either its all a nightmare 

Lilly xx


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## Molly99

Oh Lily, big big   to you.  No wonder you are struggling xx

I know what it's like to have an uber fertile ex on the scene.  My DH's ex has 5 children with 3 separate men ranging from 9 to 25 now.  She has been pregnant a further 3-4 times that I 'know' of, one of which was with my DH.  She got pregnant pretty much the first time they ever had sex but they chose not to keep that one but then she got pregnant again within 3 months of aborting the last one and that is now my SS.  It's not nice to know how compatible they were  

It's very difficult when you don't live near your steppies, we live about 1.5 hours away from mine, but DH goes to pick them up every Friday and drops them off every Monday.  It's not ideal by any means and the travel is very expensive and hard on everyone but he chose to live here with me and they should experience life in our family.  When we started, he would staying away but that had to stop as it was horrible and sending the kids the wrong message about us too.  

When you've been in a relationship long enough for it to be stable then all influence of the ex should end.  Our ex used to demand all sorts of crazy stuff, including being informed every time we took the kids out of the county (we live on the border  ).  Your DH is the responsible parent, it is his choice that he is with you and that you are a step mum to his child.  His ex doesn't get to choose you.  It upsets me how many men let this happen though.

Hmm, does it get easier.  In my experience, yes it really does but it only happened when my DH and I reached crisis point about it.  It is an absolute rollercoaster though and we will always have big challenges in our life that are outside of our family.

My DH sounds so similar to yours.  He found missing the children too hard and missed 7 out of our 14 ICSI appointments as a result of it.  That part doesn't get easier.  He also pulled them even closer to him throughout our ICSI, he text the ex constantly, and did the gazing a pictures and being sad to his Mum because he missed them too much when we were away.  He wasn't even with me on our OTD because he prioritised the kids and his needs as a parent.  Perhaps it is a coping mechanism, I don't know.  It hurts like hell though and for reasons that few other people might understand.

Does he know how you are feeling?  I spend years dancing around the subject and it got worse and worse.  Sadly, and again in my experience, we sometimes need to be incredibly blunt and forceful because they are so lost in their own sadness that they can't see their children as much as a parent should.  Completely understandable but it was also their choice to have children in the wrong relationships (a bit brutal as not all men find themselves in that situation and relationships break down for all sorts of other reasons).  However, they also choose to have a relationship again xx


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## Wisp

Lily, glad you have joined in, I really get how you are feeling, sorry things are feeling so hard right now .  It must be very painful when your DH has to go away at those crucial times.

I have found one of the hardest things is dealing with the children's mothers, my SD and SS have different Mums, so two fertile women to contend with who also apparently got pregnant the first time of trying...oh how my DH has had that thrown back in his face when I feel really angry about all this! He was with my SS mum from the age of 17-30, they got married young and grew apart, then after that he met someone else and had a daughter, however he maintains that the second relationship was terrible, but still had a baby with her, intentionally, they tried for one it wasn't an accident or that she tricked him in to it!  I just cannot understand that and for some reason it really winds me up!  So like Molly says, he chose to have a child in that relationship and now we have to content with SD mum's *****iness at times.  Also she used to hate my SS mum, no reason apart for her being his ex, but since we got married they have joined forces and are best buds, very strange and my DH hates it!

I think acknowledging and accepting your feelings is really important, we shouldn't harshly judge ourselves as we are dealing with really hard and complex situations.  I think this has helped me and it has slowly become easier.

Molly that thing about not having nipples is appalling, I cant believe that it's so terrible!I feel angry on your behalf  . Like you I never say anything bad about my SD and SS mums, I always talk about them in a nice way when they say something about their mums, even though sometime it's hard, it would just be so cruel and unfair on them.  It's sad that there own mums cant do the same.

xxx


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## Molly99

Thanks Wisp    It is truly bad isn't it, I do sometimes wonder whether I have a real problem in letting things go, but I think that it's one of those things that gets ingrained.  Even more upsetting is that DH said 'poor daughter, how terrible for her'.  When then went on to have a huge row about how, yes it was, really disgusting, but also terribly sad it was for me too.

They get it so wrong sometimes  

I find it really hard to come to terms with DH having not just one, but two (actually 3) children with a woman that he openly admits he knew from the very first date was an absolutely wrong choice.  He was even warned off her by one of her very close friends and she herself told him they were wrong.  We've had some major rows, sadly, about the fact that he felt that he didn't have a choice.  I don't know why it is so important to me but I had to make him see that he wasn't raped and he had every choice to never use contraception.  I guess that I just want him to see that he has always had a choice, he has a choice with me and it still doesn't feel like he's committed to making it.

Urgh to knowing waaaayyyy too much about our husband's sex life.  I don't know about you Wisp, but I could have happily lived my entire life without ever knowing that my DH 'just had to look' at his ex to get her pregnant  

I think that they know when they have shared too much sometimes....but then they're upset when it comes back to bite them?! It has proven to me time after time that it is myself and my DH (and everyone else in our marriage ala Lady Di) and not the kids that cause the problems.


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## Wisp

I find it hard to let go too, only yesterday I said to my DH that it really winds me up that his ex says things like that about me to my SD. He said he just thinks she is pathetic and jealous (true) and that he knows she probably says awful things to his daughter about him, which aren't true, but he cant do anything about it. He can let it go better than me!

It's madness that they feel they didn't have a choice! My DH actually *suggested* they have a baby and then he wonders why I find it hard to believe that things were that bad! I don't care if they had a good relationship at one time, that would make more sense to me, as I just cant understand why would you want to be tied to someone you cant stand forever!?

Yes, I could have lived without it too! My DH never talks about his past relationships, unless I ask, but that time he just volunteered that they got pregnant first time! I hate knowing that!


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## MissMayhem

Hi artist_mum, Molly99 and all, it seems my thread has been moved here - probably to highlight to me how I've been struggling when there were a whole group of us in the same boat all along!  

Reading some of the stories on here really beggars belief (haven't had chance to read them all yet).  My SDs mother is actually nice towards me and I feel guilty for feeling the way I do towards her but I just don't rate her as a mother and cannot forget some of the things she has said and done over the years.  My anger stems from a lot of stuff (too much to post) and my belief that, ultimately, she doesn't deserve to have her daughter. Naturally feelings like that are magnified when you then have the pain of not being able to conceive. One of the latest things I've had to contend with has been SD bringing up photos of her mother, heavily pregnant with her, pulling her top up and exposing her belly for the pictures - apparently she thought that would be 'nice' for me to see.  I'm still trying to figure out whether she really is that stupid and insensitive or whether I've been too naive and she's a lot more manipulative than I've given her credit for!

90% of arguments with DH (apart from IVF) have been around SD and him not prioritising SD as much as he should.  There were many years when I felt that I was the only 'parent' who did prioritise her.  Too many weekends to count it would be me who stayed in and looked after her whilst both her parents went out.  Cutting a long story short though, painfully I have come to the  realisation that it doesn't matter what I say or do, it will never be enough, because ultimately it's her mother that she is yearning for love and attention from.


Recently I had to take a step back as I spent the majority of my time either upset, angry or worrying about her when I was meant to be 'relaxing' whilst going through treatment.  It ended in  hysterics and her threatening not to come up any more,  and accusing me and DH of constantly arguing.  Obviously things had been very difficult for us but she doesn't live with us so we worked hard to be ok when she was around and make sure that she was good.  But, instead of doing my usual trick of 'rescuing' her, (Karpman's Drama Triangle - one good thing I learned from the counselling!) I told her that me and her father love her very much but that we will never force her to visit and that choice will always be hers to make.  We didn't see her for weeks, she was furious and Lord only knows what she told her mother as we were then bombarded with texts and calls asking if we had 'sorted yourselves out?' (which infuriated me even more).  


I'll be honest, I was glad of the break!  But what I'm worried about is the 'now'.  After the break I find I'm struggling, outwardly to her I'm no different but inside I'm numb, it all feels fake.  As another poster on here mentioned earlier, I too have had stepmothers of the wicked variety and I do not ever want to come close to that category, but I'm terrified that I'm slipping into it. The weeks where she didn't come up her mother has obviously been forced to look after her herself and the effects are immediate, she's become so much like her.    I'm scared though that I'm rejecting her and that my real reason is my problems with fertility and that it's actually nothing to do with her behaviour or even her mother. Even if it is though I have neither the energy nor the inclination to do very much about it at the minute. 

Does this feeling ever go away?  And the automatic anger trigger when just hearing from the ex (about anything!) anyone got any tips on sorting that out?  I really need to get a grip on it as DH sees any negative comment about her as a reflection on him as he chose her all those years ago. Big hugs   and thanks to you all, as always.  Sorry for ranting. xxx


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## Molly99

God, it's complicated isn't it.

Hmmm, does it go away?  If you'd asked me this a little while ago, I would have said yes without doubt.  I think that no matter how together you are or how much work you put into everything, it will always be a little bubble that can pop up.  The impact of that bubble is the important thing and it's the two of you (perhaps weighted towards your DH) that decides how big an impact you let it be.

I think in many ways that I am over the jealousy, the insecurity and the anger of having his ex constantly in our lives.  I think that I sort of accept it because I love the kids.  What I don't accept is the control that she can have on us and her invasion into our privacy, but even those things I think are due to the lack of management by my DH.

It's a very complicated family structure that we're in but it can work.  It has done for us for long periods of time and it certainly worked in my own step family (I'm a step child too and had a wonderful secure family life - though perhaps that is because my dad disappeared and then died?)

It needs to come from all sides to make it work.  My problems now aren't because of our step family, but are between my DH and I, I think that we have a really good family now (when he isn't messing it up  ).

How did we get there?  I read every single book about being a step mother from cover to cover, honestly, I can pretty much quote you from all of them.  Some are rubbish, some are very good.  You won't want to hear some of it, the really good ones are the ones that I was upset reading because I didn't want to accept.  It did give me a whole new outlook though.

The other thing is that my DH and I aren't good communicators.  We have had some almighty rows, some of which have been going for years.  I hope that you're better than this   but there are many very difficult conversations that you need to have.  They are ones that every book tells you that you need to have before you moved in together - of course pretty much none of us did though!  We needed to really clearly establish boundaries, privacy and what we both need to compromise on in order for this to work (the latter we are still working on mind you!).  

Some couples find counselling the most helpful thing, but it isn't for us so I taught myself.  It's sad that it is so hard, isn't it something like 60% of step family couples will end in divorce?  It's no wonder, because every day takes compromise and sensitivity, especially if one of us are involuntarily childless.

I don't know whether you've seen the stages of a step family.  It's so good.  The first year is rose tinted, the next 1-6 years are fighting for common ground and seeing the differences and after that you start to act as a unit hopefully.  It really made me understand that this is hard, it's not just me or our relationship.

Although we are in all sorts at the moment, I think we have made it through the step family bit - it's just the relationship side we need to work on now!  xxxx


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## Wisp

Molly can you recommend one of the good books you read on being a step-mum? I think that could be helpful for me  .

Miss Mayhem, I sometimes get that automatic anger, you mentioned, when one of my DH's ex's gets in touch and is being nasty in some way, and for me it is related to control and some sort of panic that me and my DH are being invaded and that we'll lose control in someway!  If I can breathe and calm down, I can ask myself what is it I'm anxious about and often it comes down to this fear, rather than what she is actually saying.  It just feels like a threat somehow, but not a threat of me losing my DH or anything, as I feel very secure that that would never happen, but just that she has the potential to make me feel really bad when I was perfectly happy and fine!  This ex is a very attacking person and used to send my DH awful texts, but after he started ignoring them she doesn't send them anymore.  Like Molly mentioned we have found setting clear boundaries and holding them to be so important and helpful, with my SD and SS but mainly with their mums! This was hard for my DH at first because he felt if he stood up to them or said no to things they wouldn't let him see the children, but with support he has been able to do it and they has never stopped hims seeing them.  Things have become much easier, as they know there isn't any point doing certain things anymore, it doesn't get a big reaction. Its a bit like dealing with a 3 year old!!  The thing is it's hard for us as it's our partners that have to hold these boundaries with thier ex's (in my case anyway as I dont have any contact with them at all) and if they can't or won't it leaves us in a very powerless position  .
xx


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## mandymoo12

Hi guys,

This is a silly question - I need to reply to some of this stuff, but don't have the time right now as I'm just finishing up at work. I don't want to lose this thread - but how do I find it in the future if I want to come back and search for it if there aren't any new replies.
Going through so many of the same things you guys are talking about and really want to come back to this.

Thanks in advance


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## A J

Hi Mandymoo...can you see add bookmark up by the reply tap? Click on that and the thread gets kept in your own bookmarks...I hope that makes sense?
Hope to catch up with you as the thread has been quiet for a while
AJ x


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## Molly99

Morning all,

Well, we've just had the most wonderful weekend, I hated my steppies leaving for their Mum's this morning. I never thought that I would be in that position and feel that 

Wisp, brilliant if you fancy reading some stepfamily books, I honestly think that they turned me around, I can't say that DH enjoyed it though, I made us do lots of the suggestions and he really didn't enjoy that part . Some of them are real shockers and horrible reads, here's the Molly run down.....!

- _How to be a happy step mum_ - Lisa Dodson (really good, especially in helping you to understand how you feel and coping more effectively). One of the best.
- _Help...I'm a step mother_ - Sonja Ridden (quite good, especially the bit about understanding how your partner feels)
- _Teach yourself to be a great step-parent_ - Suzie Hayman (just ok in general but quite a good bit about communication skills)
- _The courage to be a stepmom_ - Sue Patton Theole (I liked the bit about sharing the hard stuff)
- _Step motherhood _- Cherie Burns (I can't really remember but no big bookmarks left in this one so it probably wasn't that good)
- _The single girls guide to marrying a man, his kids and his ex-wife_ - Sally Bjornsen (hmm, I might have just wanted my DH to see me reading this one!). This book didn't do much for me.
- _The step-parents parachute_ - Flora McEvedy (my wonderful sister bought this for me, good practical advice on making changes). One of the best.

I think reading any of them helps. Sometimes you just need to realise that it's ok to be feeling what you do and eventually you get around to not angrily throwing the book down at the bits you don't want to agree with  xxx


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## Wisp

Hi Molly,

So glad to hear that you had a lovely weekend, hope this Easter weekend is lovely too!  Thank you for the book suggestions, I am definitely going to buy one. When I told my DH he said "ahhh are you finally beginning to accept that you are actually a step-mum" hee, hee!

xxx


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## A J

I'd like to ditto a big thank you for the book list too! X


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## Molly99

You're both very welcome  .  It helps so much to go on recommendations, I have to say that some of the more rotten ones on that list just made me upset.  The good ones make you think and really do help  

Tee hee Wisp, are you ready to accept!!?    I hope that he realises just how much pain in his bottom those books are going to be


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## artist_mum

hi
this is a rather late reply to Miss Mayhem - I only just saw your post and just wanted to share some thoughts with you, particularly in response to this bit you wrote:

Does this feeling ever go away?  And the automatic anger trigger when just hearing from the ex (about anything!) anyone got any tips on sorting that out?

A few years ago I did a thing called The Lightning Process (you can google it).  I did it because I had M.E. for over 15 years and was desperate to find a way out of it. So I did that, and it worked for me.  Afterwards, I went from ill/not working to getting well, meeting my partner, doing a degree and leaving the M.E. behind me.  The reason i mention it is that recently I have been back to a practitioner to ask for help with these issues you raise.  And over the past few weeks I have applied it so that EVERY TIME i think of the ex in a negative way or feel angry or even just think about her/the steppies etc i mentally put a STOP to that line of thought.  Then i think about what I would prefer to be thinking about or to be happening in my life, then i visualise that and hopefully at the end of the process I have ceased to make her or them a key thought in my head.  This is a basic summary of how the lightning process works but there is much more to it (it takes 3 days to learn).  It takes a lot of practice and a relentless commitment to doing a STOP every time you think of them.  In theory this then changes the neural pathways in your mind from going all way the down a track towards familiar thoughts/frustrations/anger and instead you plant the seeds of the thoughts that you would like to have.  Which may be: a beautiful future with the man you met and fell in love with and a family of your own.

Sorry that is a bit long, but i thought it worth telling as I don't think these thoughts do just go away without a concerted effort or some way of changing the thinking patterns.  It is really just a way of eliminating completely any thought that leads to your DPs past (which is what they are) and a focussing and visualising of how your future looks - the one YOU want.  (which does include his daughter etc but in a way that you and he determine, not as a result of you fitting in around what the ex family determines).

I hope that helps.  I know the Lightning Process is controversial and apparently doesn't work for everyone but it was developed for Depression, has got good results with M.E. and where it worked for me, I have found some useful ways of adjusting the mind to cope with what is essentially someone else's c**p!

MissMayhem - you are so clear about the issues and seem to have gone through (like me) the giving and 'doing the right thing' only to find out that you are covering for the people who ought to be doing that bit themselves. You deserve more - you deserve your own family however that comes about now.

I also found some of those books really useful - especially in learning to be strategic in how you cope.  

Having said that I also echo what MissMayhem says.  My steppies haven't been here for a while and now that i don't feel I can give EVERYTHING to behaving like a mum to them because they already have a mum and she doesn't want my help.. and so I too feel a bit fake with them - like I"m just giving them half.  But it's the only way i can survive this - and as they get older, particularly the girl, they WILL get more like their mother after all they live with her!  So I don't want to make that my life.  I think the format of your step family is as varied and personal a choice and how other families are:  all different!

Lots of love and luck
xx


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## MissMayhem

Hi all and a Happy Easter to you. Thanks for the book list Molly99, some on there I had googled myself but you're never sure what to try without recommendations so yours are really appreciated. artist_mum thanks yet again - why do you always get me crying?!  Will definitely google that, sounds really interesting. At the moment am wondering whether this investment will be worth it though as me and DH like strangers again lately, even told him mid-week, calmly and with no tears, to just go as the only impression I get from him lately is that he's totally unhappy with me. Am reeling again this evening after watching Channel 4s '15000 & Counting' on adoption, seems he's changed his mind again about the whole adoption thing and may not be up for it after all. I've even caught myself thinking of my ex  few times and wondering if that relationship was so bad after all, arguments sometimes but at least there was fun and communication in with it too.  Am re-evaluating everything, was with my family today with DH and SD messing about and singing with my mum, dad, brother and sister and all of a sudden felt really sad as it hit me that even if I did have a family of my own (biological or otherwise) they wouldn't have those experiences as my house is so sillllllent and there's just no way DH would ever have fun with me the way my parents do. He takes no pleasure in anything any more and would never let himself go even before IVF. So sorry to be doom and gloom, tough few days and even feel guilty that it's the only time I seem to come on here so apologies for that and thanks, as always, for your support. xxx


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## Wisp

Hi MissMayhem,

Sorry to hear you're feeling low...sounds tough living in that silence . It must be hard if your DH keeps changing his mind about things.

At the weekend my MIL starting going on about when my SS was born and how he was so and so many days late etc, I just thought I really *do not * want to be hearing this at all!! I don't want to hear about my Dh's ex's pregnancy, I just don't want to think about it. Why would she feel it's okay to say thsoe things to me or am I just being weird, envious and over the top about it!? xx


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## artist_mum

*wisp* No, that is most definitely not you! That is your MIL being insensitive to say the least. Who on earth would think it a good idea to share that information with you  ? I have learned over the years that people say these kind of things because they just don't think. She may have no idea that that would be upsetting for you. But then people with kids (she is one herself!) just don't realise how painful it is not having kids - so they just don't get it.

Ignore her. Silly woman!

xx


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## Molly99

Wisp, this is sooooo not just you!  Pretty much everyone in our situation finds baby stories hard but they are a million times harder when they're describing your husband having a baby with another woman.  It's insensitive in so many ways.

My DH will never understand how uncomfortable it is to have to think of him and his ex in that light, though I've not held back when its started  . His mother would think me even more of a monster but then I'm pretty sure that neither of them want to hear about my sex life before I met DH either,  though it's damn tempting to join in the conversation sometimes  

We've just delayed out FET as my pesky cycle is still all over the place.  I'm feeling down about it today but I know it's the right decision as this is our last try.  Wouldn't you know that it brought out a shocking bit of jealousy this morning about how easy it was for DH and his ex  .  If our problems were due to any other reason than him having a vasectomy when he was already breaking up with her then I wouldn't struggle so much with feeling so lost and angry about it.  This was the woman he knew was wrong and had a terrible relationship with but still had kids and then sterilised himself so she'll be the only mother of his children.  

Sigh, unhappy today.  FET seems s million years away x


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## Wisp

Thanks artist_mum, I felt so upset and angry. I didn't tell my DH about it, as I know he would be too and he has only just started talking to them again after a long fall out!! Initially I was glad that they were talking again, but now I realise how nice it was to not be hearing about his children all the time and insensitive things like this!

Molly, your story is so similar to mine, I got really angry about it again the other day, that my DH chose to have a baby with a woman he says he hated, I just cant get my head around that! He said it was because he wanted a baby so much, it makes me so mad, I shouted "but you had to have sex with her, how could you dot hat if you hated her!" I have to let it go....

I am really sorry to hear that you are feeling low, I'm sorry but I don't know what FET is? (still learning so much). When will you be able to have it?  All the waiting must be so hard, but like you say gotta give your last try the best possible shot. Got everything crossed for you  .

Sending you a big hug


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## Molly99

It's such a hard one to let go isn't Wisp.  I honestly wonder whether it would be so much easier if I knew that DH and his ex girlfriend were really in love and happy.  I could understand 2 children & vasectomy then.  Perhaps him sharing how much he didn't want to be with her from the moment they were together was such a bad thing for him to have mentioned because I can't forget it.  He let her persuade him to sterilise himself knowing that they were breaking up, what on earth was that all about?  

When he delayed and dragged his feet so badly for the 3 years that we were trying naturally and he still does things that makes a pregnancy even more unlikely, I just can't balance these feelings.  He disliked her and had 2 babies, he loves and marries me but has made this so hard.  They get so damaged by their experiences before they met us that it has such an influence on our future  

Sorry, an FET is a frozen embryo transfer.  We have the one little embie left from our first cycle.  This wears you down so much doesn't it, it's hard to see that it will ever work, I'm terrified that it won't defrost (sounds so weird!).  If it does though then it came from our first cycle and I did manage a little pregnancy back then.  I'm glad that we're waiting, as we're still recovering from that big row  

It's so weird that your MIL acted so insensitively.  I'll never understand them, you'd think that after not seeing her son for so long that she'd be on her absolute best behaviour wouldn't you.  It's good that your DH would support you though, he sounds like a lovely man xxx


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## Wisp

That's exactly how I feel, that it would be easier for me if I knew they were happy and in love at the time they conceived their daughter. That would make perfect sense to me, I just find it so hard to believe that wasn't the case because it seems crazy to have a baby with someone you dislike so much and then have this tie with them forever!! I know my DH is honest and telling the truth and they were over long before we met so it isn't about reassuring me or anything, so it's just a very weird and very sad fact, that I don't feel I can ever fully accept! 

What on earth was that about!? That is bizarre isn't it, that his ex was able to manipulate that situation! 

No need to apologise, I feel I should know all this stuff, but as I haven't gone down that road I am a bit ignorant still!  Ah so you have one little FET left, I am really rooting for it to make it!  Seems like the best thing to try and recover from the row first, be in a good a place as you can with all this going on, as you're right it does wears you down.

I know it is weird, I think she always said things like that, but maybe I am noticing them more now as this goes on and they really hurt! I just sat there thinking HELLO, WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON!!

My DH is lovely, even though he has children already I know our relationship is the best he (and I!) has ever had and that he loves me so much.  I know all this really hurts him too, as he has always wanted a family and with his ex's he wasn't happy, but had children and now he is really happy and we cant seem to have a baby of our own, ironic huh!?

When do you think you will have the FET?   xx


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## Molly99

It is so ironic  .  I could almost chuckle at the irony of my life too sometimes.  I was determined not to have children with my ex because it was a horrendous relationship that took me 11 years to get out of.  I finally meet the man of my dreams and he's had a vasectomy.  Sometimes I do wonder whether there is some cosmic thing going on with me, natural selection?!  Oh dear  

I'm glad that it's not just my warped thinking about DH's ex!  DH's friend is the husband of his exes best friend and he's told me how awful their relationship was so I know that what DH says is true too.  DH was just so completely niaive, he would have stayed in complete misery and slowly drinking himself to death until the kids left home, thank god she left him.  It hurts that she made sure he'd never have more children though and he was so blooming stupid to go along with the vasectomy.

MILs, I think that many of them do cut deliberately.  Yours sounds like a complete rotter, I still can't get over what she was saying.  It's like they can't let go of their sons and see us as threats - a situation which is sadly all too common in step families.  I wish that my DH would stand up to his mother, but she is so clever with it and so massively covert and no matter how horrendous her actions DH can't get upset with her.  Grrr, blooming apron strings.  At least your DH sees the light.  I'm so sorry that you're all in this horrible position though, I hope that you don't have to see her very much at all.

I think that we're going for our frostie in May.  I hope that we can be in a stronger position by then, it's rollercoaster after rollercoaster at the moment.  Because we're rowing, I can't shake this feeling that he's comparing me to his ex now and feeling trapped into having another baby.  See, more information that I didn't need to know that's now warping in my head!

Either way, my little frostie is waiting for me and I'm going to be fit, healthy & happy by then if it kills me    I'm on the final phase of new things I can try .... castor oil packs .... how on earth didn't I know about them before?  It's weird (I've never used cling film in that way before  ) but wow, how lovely are they!

What are you next milestones? xx


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## Wisp

Hey Mollie, 

Caster oil pack and cling film sounds very interesting, I have no idea what it is!!? You must enlighten me!

As for my next milestones, I don't really know...I am coming to the end of 6 months of acupuncture and Chinese herbs, I think they have helped to improve some things, but I am still getting that spotting a few days before AF arrives  . I am going to see if I can get my progesterone tested on day 25, when my temp drops, to see what it is like then. My DH has to do another sperm test before our new GP will refer us to our new local hospital.  She said she thinks its worth being referred again in case anything may have been missed at our old hospital, I am not sure anything will come from it, but we'll see.  We are still thinking about going to a private clinic for a Consultation, maybe paying will give us access to more tests to see if there is something underlying that hasn't been identified, I don't know.

'Natural selection'...these horrible thoughts pop in to my mind too! Horrible that we think like that sometimes.

I hope that things settle down and are getting better with you and your DH, it's such a stressful time, it's bound to affect our relationships and we have all the baggage from the past to deal with too, like that bloody vasectomy!! 

As you know my friend had her baby recently and yesterday my Mum told me that my cousin and someone else we know are having 2nd babies, I just felt angry and upset, started gettign tearful.  My mum said she has to tell me these things, which I understand, but then she said "you need to just forget about it now, it'll happen" . Forget about it! I think she just doesn't know what to say anymore.  

Good luck with the frostie in May, do keep me posted  .
xx


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## Molly99

How are you doing lovely ladies?

We're now a month and a half into changing from weekly to fortnightly access and I'm hating it . Crazy isn't it! I don't think that it's working for any of us. I guess it's sort of working for the kids because they get a full weekend with their friends but it's playing havoc with our family dynamics. The kids have become even more unsettled and desperate to go home. They arrive on the Friday after school and are already asking to go home on the Saturday morning. We have the most amazing and exciting life for them here and constantly do wonderful things but they still want to go home.

We took the kids away for the weekend by the beach the other weekend and both were crying when DH picked them up because they wanted to stay with their mother. SD has started coming with random items of her mother's clothing and putting them in her bed so she can cuddle them again - she hasn't done that since she was 4 

Urgh, tell me that it's just settling into a routine and it will all calm down. We've gone from feeling like a family to feeling like jailers. I don't know why I'm so upset by it, as DH doesn't seem that bothered. It feels like we've regressed back years though and I hate to see the kids not treating ours like their home too and being upset. I also hate having their mother's clothing in my house, but that's a whole different matter 

I think that their mother is being a bit naughty and making them upset before they leave and doing the whole take something of mine with you so you can smell me at all times thing. They weren't like this with every weekend so it seems odd that it's started now its fortnightly. They're 9 and 12 so times will change but it feels like we're losing them 

A little rant too.... DH does a sport that takes up most of a Sunday in the summer. In the past, when I was struggling to adapt, I thought it very unfair that I would be left with both of the kids for half of the weekend on my own so DH would make a huge thing out of forcing them to go with him & sit in the car etc. Things have changed so much, but he's about to start the season again now and I suggested that he leaves them with me because I'd like to and because they will be happier. They are already unhappy at being here and forcing them to hang around for him and watch films in the car when they could be here and we do something nice seems crazy to me.

....apparently though, he doesn't _trust _me to look after them because I made a fuss about it in the past. He'd rather upset me, really upset already upset kids and make it all incredibly difficult than trust me to try having them again. I'm just so sad about his attitude. I have a feeling that he may realise what a plonker he's being and will suggest that at least SD stay with me but now I feel that I'm being trialed and monitored.

Damn it, having the option not to go is what's right for the kids but my hurt & stubborn streak has risen and now I'm thinking well let it all backfire on you. The adult in me knows that it will backfire on all of us though. What a fool for making a situation when there really didn't need to be one, as if we don't have enough to worry about


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## Wisp

Hey Molly,

I'm feeling crap as started spotting this evening, so know AF is coming , so came on here for a bit of TLC.  Sounds like you need some too, so sending you a big hug  .

I'm sorry the change to fortnightly has messed things up for you all.  It does sound like this change has really unsettled your steppies, now they have a longer time at home with their mum between visits and maybe that's why it feels harder for them to come than before, two weeks probably feels a long time for them and they are getting used to being at home more at weekends.  I think it will settle down in time. 

I think saying they have regressed is probably exactly what has happened, change can do that to any of us, we revert back to things we've done in the past to try and help us feel better. Maybe that's what is going on with your SD bringing her mums clothes.  I can imagine how you feel about her clothing being in the house, I know I would struggle with that! It's hard because you can do all you can to try and make them feel settled, but how their mum handles it has a huge impact, I know my SD's mum sometimes seems to make things worse if SD is feeling a bit iffy about coming to ours, if she feels a bit ill or something.    

I imagine it can feel really hard when they are crying and want to go home, I know we've had that a few times with SD over the years and it has felt really painful.  I know my DH has found it hard when he has gone to pick her up and she has said she doesn't want to come.  My reaction has always been really childish and I've said to him well leave her then! That's just me being defensive though, particularly when I've been struggling with the steppies coming.

Sounds like your DH is punishing you a bit for the past, no wonder you feel sad about it. Also you're thinking about them and I'm sure they'd rather do something nice with you rather than wait around while he is playing. Hope he changes his mind and sees sense about it.

I really hope things feel better soon and they settle in to the new routine.  Do you have them this weekend? What led to the change to fortnightly? Are you enjoying having weekend with just you and your DH? Sorry for all the questions! I love that me and my DH have two weekends a month just for us.

We have the children this weekend, it's my SS 10th birthday so we are going out for the day, I'm actually looking forward to it, so that's good.

xxx


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## Molly99

Thank you for listening to my ranty pity party Wisp, you are wonderful.

It just really upsets me that they don't want to be here.  It's the polar oppositeness of it, we couldn't get them out of the door just a little while ago and now we can't get them in it.  It probably is just the bedding down of the new arrangements (DH arranged it because of SS wanting his friends and their mother constantly arranging sleepovers & parties when they were with us, resulting in lots of tears).  Their mother plays such horrible emotional games with them, she's whips them up into tears about how she can't live without them whilst she's pushing them into DH's car.  I just don't understand how she could do that, I would never treat a child of mine (or them) in that way.

I used to think exactly the same way as you about leaving them there if they didn't want to come.  The little blighters got to me though and now it really upsets me.  That's the horrible thing about being an infertile step parent, you get shown a little light and then it's whipped away from you whenever someone wants because it never belonged to you in the first place    Ah well, it's done and we all have to get used to it.  We do have them this weekend, so we'll see if it's settling down or I need to get the hankies out again.

I should just concentrate on the positives and enjoy time with DH.  I do but he's pretending that he's not really sad and I'm not good with change!

I replied to another post of yours but just to say that I am genuinely upset about your spotting.  That rollercoaster of hope and disappointment is a killer.  I wish that your DH would whisk you into his arms and make it all go away for you, instead of being frankly a bit of an insensitive jerk.  It's like they say 'for goodness sake, you're not still going on about that are you?  Wasn't that over and done with last month'.  

Good luck with your SS's birthday.  I know that it can be really hard shortly after that sad realisation of AF coming to cope with steppies arriving.  It's like you have to don a superhero cloak that stops any negativity showing and shields you from comparisonitas.  If I could send my cloak to you then I absolutely would.

Where's the superhero smiley when you need it!?  xxxxxxx


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## Wisp

Ahh Molly, thank you.  You're the wonderful one though, you're always so supportive.  Yes, I wish you could send me the cloak too! It feels exactly like that. 

Sounds like a very dramatic shift in the steppies behaviour, it must be very hard for you. Fingers crossed it gets better quickly, they probably just need time to adjust. So do you and your DH.

Yes my Dh's unresponsive last night wasn't good, but I know I push him away at times like that, taking myself off upstairs and shutting the door, don't think he knows what to do as that rarely happens between us.  This morning he asked if he could give me a hug, probably wary I'd bite his head off or something! We had a big hug, but sometimes I just feel annoyed with myself for choosing to be with someone who has children! I love him so much though.

Hope this weekend is a little better xx


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## Molly99

Hi Wisp, I was just thinking of you.  How was your weekend?  Was the party ok?  Hope that you coped ok and are now relaxing.

I've had the weekend from hell. I've walked out and come back, I don't think that my DH even knew I was gone.  When I left, I walked back in a few seconds later and DH was cuddles up in bed with his kids and they were excitedly planning their weekend.  Talk about never existing, I was sort of hoping that he might be even slightly upset for just a couple of minutes  

I didn't last long and was back in the evening after a good talking to from my mum.  DH acted as though I'd just walked in from making coffee in the kitchen.  Bang went my tearful reunion and pledges of love.  It all completely backfired on me, I just don't know how to reach this man  

They were supposed to pick me up and we all go out today, they went without me because I missed their call by minutes.

I'm a childless woman living with a single dad.  Why is this so hard?  I thought that we were a family.  My period started today, so that's day 1 for my FET.  I haven't told him yet, God we're barely functioning how on earth can this go ahead.  What if it doesn't though and things keep getting worse between us and he (or his mother) stop me from trying our little frostie?

So many worries tonight.  Hating his single dad phase


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## Cranky Angie

Molly so sad to read yr post. Me and DH had a fall out today too, he said I think we should start to think about going our separate ways (he has said this kind of stuff so many times I'm beginning to think its what he really believes) I went for a half hour drive, upset, to gather my thoughts/get away from him ..... Came back calmer half hour later and he hadn't even noticed I'd gone either. 
Don't worry about yr weekend now, it's gone you need to move on and concentrate on your FET. You're feeling vulnerable and wanting to be loved and DH is just loving someone else (his kids) and you feel ignored and unloved. I know I have been there so many times. I'm not sure of the answer either, as I too feel that I don't know know how to reach my man, you walk away and expect them to come running and they don't. I don't think they realise that they are lucky to have us as they are too wrapped up in themselves and their kids. Sometimes I wonder if I really really left him would he then understand what he had lost ..... I'm still not sure. Although he does tell me he loves me. 
I'm sorry I don't have answers, I just wanted you to know you're not alone in feeling like this. 
Ange xxx


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## Wisp

Hey Molly,

Thank you for thinking of me. I'm really sorry to hear about all that happened for you this weekend and that you're worried the FET may not go ahead.  Sounds like you are feeling really unloved and cared for, sending you a big hug  . How are you today?

Going through all this fertility stuff with steppies too is really, really hard. Luckily this weekend was a good one for me, but you know there have been many times when it's felt like hell!  Actually I was thinking of you too, as wanted to tell you how it went.

As for how to reach your DH, can you try to talk to him or does that feel like a no go right now?

Thinking of you xx


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## Molly99

Hi lovely ladies, how are you doing?

Wisp, that's wonderful that you had a good weekend. It makes it so much easier doesn't it. How have you been since? X

Cranky, I'm sorry that you and your DH had a tough time too.  How are you feeling about it all now?  I really hope that it is calming down x

We're definitely on our cycle now, I surged yesterday and started all my meds last night.  It's a bit scary, as we are ok but it's delicate, it's not how you dream it will be is it   We had trouble as my cycle always lands on weekends and, wouldn't you know it that now we only see the kids fortnightly, that it falls on their weekend.  The ironic double whammy of it is that our test day will also fall on a kids weekend and Father's Day.  I mean, come on! Last cycle it was Mother's Day, what are the chances!  It feels lime a cosmic message to me   Not sure what will happen yet, we had hassle from his ex about changing this weekend for our transfer, it's not going to be easy to change another weekend and I'm not sure that DH wants to either.

Yay, looking forwards to more upset about it all!  As if this just isn't all stressful enough ghost.  I'm not sure what I want him to do either, as I recognise that he needs to be with the kids that weekend too.  Hard work isn't it?

Still, I am not going to let it worry me too much.....I have a little frosted to prepare for on Monday  

 to you xxx


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## MissMayhem

Molly will have absolutely everything crossed for you for Monday! I know it's far easier said than done but really do try to just focus on you and your little frostie. In the best possible way it's good to hear others acknowledge how hard lovely steppies can be during this whole journey. My beautiful SD was 13 last week and spent the day of and day before her birthday excitedly telling me how her mum has been telling her all about her labour and pregnancy, every comment felt like a punch in the stomach for me. Am feeling too for kranky and wisp, my DH is just happy to have uninterrupted tv viewing if I ever 'leave'; I wonder how they really would fare if we just disappeared!! My DH waaked out and got in the car the other day so I hastily ran after him and locked him out thknking 'that's it, he will not have the opportunity to walk out on me again!' only to watch him move the car to his usual spot outside the house. Naturaly I had to race back and unlock it before that turned a minor row into a major dingdong! Just goes to show how your sanity can be affected, and I'm months away from any medication!  Tis a cruel journey and happens to good people, thankfully places like this help us to speak to others who really do understand.   and good luck to you all, especialy you for Monday molly.xxx


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## Cranky Angie

Hi molly, miss mayhem, wisp ...... just stumbled across this post late last night and thought how true it was. Im hoping the link works. hope you are all ok. Still rowing with my DH, firstly he now wants to give SS £8000 for a masters course which you and i know SS will never pay back, and secondly he is totally pandering to our DS every whim and demand (just like he has with the steppies) which will just turn him into the spoilt brats (loving, happy, cared for, but definitely spoilt) that the steppies are .... So it never gets any easier. Miss Mayhem, I had to laugh with your door locking episode, that's exactly th sort of thing I would've done. Molly on the bad luck with the dates. It's called Sod's law and it always used to happen to me too. . Anyway hope you guys like the link. 
Ange xxx

http://www.wednesdaymartin.com/blog/2009/08/why-you-shouldnt-put-his-kids-first/


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## Wisp

*Hey Molly*, I've been good lately...have stopped acupuncture, Chinese herbs and charting and it feels very freeing! Although it's day 19 today and I am wondering if I have ovulated (usually day 17), as didn't notice much CM this month...so I'm not totally free from it all! Trying not to think about it too much though. We are dragging our heels a bit as DH is meant to have done another sperm test and I am meant to do another bloodtest, but we havent done either! I just feel sick of it all.

Have everything crossed for you and the little frostie...it must be today?!  Sorry that all the dates fall at bad times, it must be really hard. Thinking of you .

*CrankyAngie*, thanks for the link, I will have a look at it today. Regarding the £8000, no way! My view would definitely be if they've chosen to do a Masters they should fund it themselves! Can't you get student finance for a Masters? Although I've been coping well with my steppies lately, it hits you every so often and at the weekend my husband said something to the children about whatever we have will be left to them.....I thought, NO! I couldn't help, but say "er really?!". If we don't have children together I would want to leave something to my nieces ad nephews...this is where things seem to get awkward for me!!

MissMayhem, it's awful when they say things that just hit us like that...I often hear "my mum this, my mum that" and I smile sweetly and say how lovely...arghhh. Especially hard hearing about pregnancy and labour...not long ago I wrote on her about my MIL telling me all about my SS birth, I thought gee thanks for that! x


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## Molly99

Urgh, Missmayhem.  That's just a horrible thing to hear    it makes me cringe when my own mum talks about such things    My SD wanted to talk about the same thing in a crowded coffee shop with me and my mum, luckily my mum was fab because I was just lost for words.

It sounds like you're doing lovely Zen stuff Wisp, well done you.  I never did get around to Chinese herbs or acupuncture, do you feel any difference?  How are you feeling about the tests? It's so hard isn't it, I think that you do get to an exhaustion level with it all - frequently.  I hope that you are both ok xx

We found making our wills very stressful.  I love the kids but something felt so wrong about leaving my own family things and also things like our house to just them.  In the end, we spilt everything between us, his children will get half of his share if we both die and my family will get my half.  It seems fair.  Did your DH also name his ex to get nothing and have no claim?  We had a section in our will that asked to name anyone you don't want involved.  It was a huge relief for me.

Cranky   seriously?  That is a enormous gift.  It wouldn't feel right to me either, unless money wasn't a huge issue (which of course it is for practically everyone).  My mum is crazily generous but I worked and got all the grants that I could for my masters.  It makes you value what you have and certainly makes sure that you're doing it for all of the right reasons.

Well, I am now 3 days post a 5dt   it went perfectly.  I was worried sick about the 5 hour journey to the clinic without knowing if little frostie had made it but she did with flying colours    Backache and sore (.)(.) Today but probably the meds, I've never had a 5dt before, it's all new to be this advanced already.

DH and I have been doing really well too  we've just had a bit of stress though as our test day is now the day before the kids arrive.  His ex won't swap the weekend and DH doesn't feel he can not see them for two weekends in a row.  We'll cope because we have to if it comes to it but I'm so worried that I won't be able to hide being upset this final time.  I don't want to worry the kids, we know that they report back to the ex when I'm quiet and them celebrating father's day when my period is due feels like rubbing salt into the wound  

Keeping absolutely everything crossed that we will have a positive but feeling like we have to prepare for the worst too.  What a nightmare worry on top of everything else.  What would you do lovely ladies?  Xxx


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## artist_mum

Just a quickie thought from me: do the children have grandparents or aunts/uncles on your DH side so he could arrange to take them there on the saturday during the day?  For lunch or something?  That way you can have some space if things are tough and all being well and you get your positive then you would have a bit of room to relax and take care of you.

I think it is important that whatever happens, you have that weekend for yourself and if DH has to have the children you could build in some support for yourself elsewhere.. a friend who knows perhaps?  Someone you could go and chill with - whatever your results!  Personally I would ask that he leave the kids with a relative for the day or even have an overnight at a Granny (with him staying or not).  It really is your time and you don't want to resent things later.

My steppies were here when i miscarried last year and I still resent that I had to go through that with them around (we knew it was about to happen).  It's so unnecessary to add to the stress with someone else's kids at that time - and it's only a short time after all.  The children would not be concerned with a missing weekend, only the adults!  My DP realised it wasn't fair on me and this time around, for the first time ever, he missed 2 weekends - seeing them only for the day and away from here whilst I was doing our last IVF.  He knows I am forever grateful that he put me first, if only that once!

Wishing you all the luck in the world

xx


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## Molly99

Thanks Artist Mum xx  Unfortunately (well fortunately as my MIL is horrible) DH's parents live 6 hours away.  I've always had to leave my house too because DH hasn't been able to miss any weekends in the past.  I don't want to do that any more.

I think that they'll end up here to be honest, we've coped before so maybe it will be alright.  They've been with us the whole way through - when I miscarried and on our last cycle BFN.  It did make it incredibly stressful and lead to terrible rows with DH but maybe this time will be different.  I told DH about the date clash a month ago, so this could all have been sorted by now  .  In fact, he could have arranged it a couple of weeks ago when we swapped the weekend for a scan.  I think that he was putting it off because he didn't want to swap if I'm honest.  He's said before about wanting the kids closer when times are tough.

I do understand that and, perhaps it might also be nice to have them here, I just don't like the having to pretend that nothing has happened and it's completely inappropriate for them to see me in a bad place.  It just makes me sad because I need DH there for me, so selfish isn't it, but I want him to be there just for us and not out swimming or having fun with the kids whilst I'm sobbing at home by myself like before   .  It's just a couple of weekends and the result could be the rest of my life, it seems like a small sacrifice.

I know that it isn't that simple for him though.  Besides that, my little frostie is going to make it and next weekend will be a happy one.  My little one is strong and is going to make it


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## Lilly83

Hi girls

Not posted in a while

I'm in a huge panic.... DP has a 3 year old (we got together when she was a few weeks old he split with his ex before hand) she lives in another town so has weekly access there at his mums he goes for 2 days a week which I find so hard, through our failed and cancelled cycles he was off to see her and even on otd, its always been do hard for me I'm consumed with jealousy when he goes which I know is wrong I really do, I have took the trip with him on a handful of occasions but I really struggle I'm battling knowing I won't have a bio child and seeing him with her kills me

Anyway we are DR for our first donor cycle and I'm feeling crap and emotional and he just sprang on me access has changed to our house starting this Sunday and she is coming for 2 nights and its a regular thing

I'm worried I won't cope, I don't feel ready the timing is terrible, how do you deal with the insecurity and jealousy? I so wish I didn't feel like this I have a knot in my stomach and I'm panicking, I wanted a stress free cycle and I feel he should of waited but I know in probably being precious and self centred

Xx


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## MissMayhem

Ohhh lily83 I really feel for you and so wish I had some words of wisdom for you! I've only been a stepmum for five years and love my SD to bits BUT that didn't stop  things being really difficult during and after treatment. I guess as you're not used to your SD being part of your everyday life contact every week all of a sudden is a big change for you, even if infertility wasn't part of the equation, the fact that it is just makes things harder. The timing really isn't great. Is there a reason for the sudden change? Obviously it goes without saying that your DPs commitment to his child is absolutely as it should be but just wondered if there was any scope for her to be phased into your life more gently given the circumstances? The only definitive thing I can say is that I absolutely don't think you're being selfish or precious, one thing I've learned through my journey is how I completely underestimated how emotional I would feel so your wanting a stress free cycle is perfectly understandable. Logic and thinking from our conscious brain often goes out the window. Hopefully some of the other girls will be along with their wisdom soon, God knows how I would have coped without them! Sending you big hugs  . Molly99 really hope everything is ok with you. Love and thanks to all you other girls too, particularly artistmum, haven't forgotten your kindness and words of wisdom.xxx


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## Lilly83

Thank you so much for the message! I do so want to me a good stepmun I really do, I thought it was going to be the odd day trip first that's what he said starting oct (the mum has stipulated she wasn't  allowed to ours til Oct) he always said it would start with day trips first but now all of a sudden mid down reg its sun/mon/tue this week, I just don't feel ready emotionally, I hate myself for having negative feelings about it, the charge is due to him getting impatient and asking his ex and as she has a new man she has softened and backed down, I asked if I could have a bit of notice to get the house straight as my dressing room will become her nursery which is fine but now whilst I'm knackered with DR I'm having to sort the house out and in work every day

I'm on a donor cycle so feel like all that's out if my control so I imagine this being too is adding to it, I just wish he would at least acknowledge its a bad time and waiting til the cycle was over in a few nights might be better 

His ex has 3 babies to 3 men and caught first time with them all I feel so insecure, she is 17 years older than me too, I just wish I knew how to lose the negative feelings and jealously as I feel embarrassed admitting that's how I feel, I tried gently talking about the ivf tonight ready to mention the timing wasn't great and he just talked over me and started showing me all the videos he took of her today when I saw her, it must be hard being an excited dad living with an infertile mess

Thanks again for your reply x


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## Molly99

Oh Lilly, what a crazy situation we find ourselves in.  Your DH sounds very similar to mine in the way that he arranges things.  It took a very long time for us to start working as a team and, as you can probably tell from my posts, we still waver in and out.

At the end of the day, I can see that my DH is a wonderful father.  I love my steppies and I want them here as much as possible, I see them as part of my family and I miss them when they aren't here.  Hooooowwweeeevvvvveeeerrrrr....  there are times in the fertility process when it does get incredibly hard because you are on the high wire and going through an enormous amount of stress.  Those times, and they are few and for a concentrated period of time, it is very difficult not to want your space and to not have additional pressures.  My DH finds this hard to understand, he is as focussed on spending as much time with his children without any gaps as is humanly possible as I am focussed on trying to make our cycle work.

I stilll feel that your DH isn't seeing you both as a unit and the nuclei of your family.  To be honest, I think that having his daughter live with you on his days is a massive improvement on him spending time away with her.  She needs to grow up seeing you both as her family and he can't keep shutting you out and giving his ex far too much say over his access.  

Saying that though, his timing is APPALLING    Put aside the fact that he is introducing a new regime and a new way of life to both you and his daughter, he is doing this at a time when you couldn't be more focussed on something else and more stressed.  That's a terrible combination to bring his daughter into.

It took so many rows to get my DH to see that he can't arrange things with his ex without discussing them with me first.  Dropping massive changes is unacceptable and disrespectful, there are three to consider now and not just him and his daughter.  I completely understand his frustration and desperation to get something arranged but delaying it by a month really wouldn't have made much of a difference and you could both have been in such a different place by then.

I don't think that the comparisons of ourselves with their uber fertile exes ever goes away (DH's ex is miss fertile knickers herself - 5 kids to 3 different men), it does get easier to live with as your life together gets stronger and more stable though.  Your DH sounds like he has a very long way to go before creating that atmosphere for you.

You do have a say in all of this lovely.  This is your house too and your life.  It's an awful time to be having to deal with additional stress but I think that you do need to spell it out to him, they just merrily go along blinkered otherwise and then not understanding the mayhem that they leave in their trail or why on earth things aren't perfect.

Grrr, men.  It is hard being a Dad and living with an infertile mess.  I've driven myself crazy over that one but I'm at peace with this now, it was their choice (whether any of us knew that we were making it at the time) to have children, to start a new life, to find love with someone who also wants children.  

It can be a happy ever after.  I'm determined we'll find our happy ever after anyway but you can only find it by both changing, both sacrificing, doing things differently and adapting.  It doesn't work if it's just you doing all of the changing lovely xx


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## Lilly83

Both of your messages have helped me so much thanks for listening and for understanding, Molly you sound so 'together' compared to me, I do believe I can be a good stepmun and it feels terrible me putting myself first but I don't think this is right for anyone it needs to be a more gentle change, he first said 2 nights/3 days, he has never even had her at his mums 2 nights together so is def getting carried away with the excitement, I have talked him down to 1 for practical reasons, him changing this plan now means we don't get a day off together now we have 2 days a month where we are off together (due to working weekends and his access) he is home at 9.30 most nights so that quality time is important but now our day tue next week will be with his daughter here, he could of still had Monday with her at his mums, so he would still of seen her 

At ET day last time it was his only day off (they don't have fixed access days his days off change) and rather than rearrange she was suddenly coming with us! He wanted me to invite my mum so she could walk her round the hospital grounds in a buggy whilst we are in then we could spend the afternoon together

I know if I mention it today it will probably kick off

Any tips of dealing with the Insecure feelings? If this treatment fails I often think I could leave him just to save the heartache of being with a dad


Lilly x


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## Molly99

Tee hee, I sound together?!! I suppose in a way I am, it's a very fine thread that holds it though 

I think that I just know how it needs to be now, it doesn't make it any easy when it goes off like a whirligig but I can at least see where we need to be and I've been through so much that I'm not afraid of giving it a swift kick when it's heading off in all directions but forward 

I think that it was going through our first IVF that forced me into making changes, no matter how horrendous they were. Our first cycle and then the aftermath of my miscarriage when the kids were here and my MIL made it horribly clear that she didn't approve of me having a baby anyway turned me into some sort of warmonger. Honestly, I became a scary woman to be around  It had to happen, it's just a shame that it had to happen then and in such a manner.

Your term of not wanting to mention it today as it will probably kick off made me have a wry chuckle. Not in a horrible way in the slightest but in a moment of complete solidarity! It's sad that step families are so tricky that every discussion about having an input into decisions or life that in some way affects the children always ends up kicking off. From everything that I've read, it takes 5-7 years to get through this stage  What I've found out though is that if it needs to kick off then it does, and it will keep doing so until it's sorted or until we finally get to a stage where we're working as a team. Sometimes I feel like I'm some wicked scientist and my poor laboratory cat just won't learn from the electric shocks to change its behaviour   It's one step forward two back sometimes, we can be great and then he wants the children here for when he breaks my pregnancy test to me. It's hard work 

How do you feel about your boundaries and does your DH do anything that is making you feel insecure? I'm guessing that this is a lot at the moment.

I don't think that anyone else will ever understand how difficult it is to be an infertile step parent. It is a massive life choice that will affect you (hopefully not always so intensely) forever. I have had many dark days when I've wondered whether I can stay if this doesn't work, my DH is still convinced that I won't. What has been so difficult to get him to understand is that those dark thoughts come when it doesn't feel like he wants this for us. I know that it will never be the same (god know's we've had that argument enough times  ) but you have to feel that your future together is _as _important - because it is.


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## Cranky Angie

Just wanted to give you a bit of moral support Lilly. I have found that dads with kids with exes can be the most incredibly selfish people putting their kids and their exes wishes so totally above their new wives and partners (and even new kids).  I have been there, as we all have on here. Hang in there my lovely but stand your ground, you have rights and wishes and needs too, they can't have it all their own way, it just isn't fair. I also can't believe he brought his daughter to your ET, that is bang out of order. That is totally your time together (this is why I insisted DH and I went to the Caribbean to get married, otherwise I could totally see which way our wedding would go).

I think SD coming to visit and stay with you will (in the long term) improve things, although of course initially and for a while it will be tough. It will at least allow you to have some say in things and for you and SD to build up a relationship. But I agree, the timing is god awful. My SD is very strong minded and we had some real full on barneys in the early days (of course DH never saw MY side of events .... ) 

I wish you good luck, try to let things wash over you a little if you can, remove yourself from a situation when you feel stressed, take a walk, catch up with a friend, get some breathing space. Try to explain to DP how you feel but don't be surprised if he's a bit detached or distant, when steppies arrive they seem to turn to mush around the kids and you might as well be invisible. Leave the house if it bothers you, nobody likes to feel pushed out, especially now. 

I wish you good luck, this won't be easy, but for now you need to focus on your cycle, stay calm, try to keep DP on side and just muddle along with your SD as much as possible. She will need a big adjustment time too, will probably miss her mum which will be hard for you, and you just need to protect yourself from being hurt when you are feeling vulnerable. 

We are all with you and we all understand, you are not a bad person for having jealous or negative feelings, it's completely natural. Try reading a book if you can on bring a stepmom, realising every other person has all the feelings that you are experiencing helps too. 

Sorry if I've been waffling. But thinking of you. 
Ange xxxx

Ps Molly whats the news with your cycle?


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## Molly99

Ange, your post was fantastic.  It was everything that I was trying to say in my whaffley way! x

It's true, dads with kids and exes can be the most incredibly selfish people and the most reluctant to adapt, even for one weekend.  It's recognising that, letting it go when it doesn't really matter and absolutely fighting for it when it does.

I'm on week two of the crazy train now Ange, thanks so much for asking  .  9 days gone and my OTD is on Friday 13th!  It all feels so positive, I've had such great symptoms and rejoiced in my first ever heartburn yesterday evening, funny what makes us happy isn't it    I had a tiny bit of watery brown discharge yesterday and this morning though, which is worrying.  It all feels good but it's harder to have been here before so I've got a natural self defence thing bubbling in the background just in case.  I'm still very worried about the kids being here to see it all if it isn't good news.

Lilly, I've recently bought the Zita West post transfer meditation cd.  I have to say that it really is excellent.  I've been using it prolifically to drown out the recent access rows and it honestly helps to just unwind and stop it all from building up. x


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## Wisp

Molly, still have everything crossed for you and have been thinking of you.  So pleased to read how things are going for you and that you now have a little frostie on board! Glad things are feeling better between you and your DH too.  

I am okay about the tests, we have had some before, but I think it will be good to go again, when we get there!, just to double check a few things. I do feel the herbs and acu improved my cycles and the pre-AF spotting has reduced a lot.

Re: Wills...would my DH's ex have a claim then if he doesn't state he doesn't want her to? Does this only apply if someone was married before or does it also include previous partners someone has children with? It all seems so messy and complicated sometimes! 

Lilly83, I sooo know how you feel, it's so hard isn't it?! I've been a step-mum for three years, only recently have I even been able to actually accept that I am a step-mum.  My DH has two children who come and stay with us every other weekend, fri to sun morning. I found this so hard for a long time. I used to hate coming home the Friday they were coming, I just didn't want them here, I felt so angry and resentful. This has slowly changed over time as I have let myself form relationships with them and get closer to them, but that hasn't been easy.  The only thing I've tried to do to cope is accept how I feel and talk to people who I trust about my feelings.  Even the really horrible ones! 

Just recently for the first time I started to begin to feel that we are a family unit of our own when they are here. However, just tonight I feel like I am back to square one again....we are meant to be going on holiday with my family next year and tonight DH suggested his children come to. My reaction made me feel like I haven't moved forward at all in the past three years...I instantly felt like I didn't want them to come, that it would ruin the holiday for me (sounds so selfish), it's not fair, I just feel like I don't want them there! 

I know my DH isn't that keen on going with all my family, for various reasons, and he said it would help him to have them there, that made me feel sad, like its not good enough that I'm there with him! Although I do know what he means as he'll feel he has some of his family there too, as he said he feels left out sometimes as we are all very close.  I said that it would mean we couldn't go off and do things together, on our own, and it wouldn't be like a holiday for me.  

They probably won't be allowed to come anyway, but I've ended up feeling resentful and angry again.  I know this may be irrational, but I also feel that as DH doesn't really want to go it's his way of getting back at me and making it hard for me (we've never taken them on holiday before!).  He thinks this isn't true at all and feels hurt that his children being there would make it hard for me...I know it upsets him when I say things like this, as it feels I'm rejecting his children, which I know I am at times like these.  I was really looking forward to it, now I just feel like I don't want to go if they're coming and that feels so childish! Is this jealousy, some kind of sibling rivalry...I HATE feeling like this.  Just when I thought I was feeling better about it all.  It's so weird, now when the children are here I mostly like it, I'm caring and affectionate with them, we get on really well, I think about what they would like to do etc, etc, so why has the thought of this got to me so much!? I'm clearly still so ambivalent towards them.

I can really understand why you feel in such a panic Lilly, it is such a big and sudden change and sounds like it was presented to you as a done deal...as Angie and Molly have said, it's so important that you and your DH make these decisions together. This sounds like too much, too soon.  I am lucky in that my DH always talks to me about decisions to do with the children and we decide things together. That really helps and he puts us first a lot. He is very boundaried with their mums as well and with when we have them.

I think getting to know your DH's daughter slowly, over time, will help you in the long run.  I think if he continues to see her separately it will make things worse.  You said you feel okay about your dressing room being turned in to a nursery for her, well you're coping with that far better than I could, that's exactly something I know would trigger all these feeling in me!

I just feel like an evil step-mother when I feel like this  .


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## MissMayhem

Hi everyone, been having a read and once again feel better from that reassurance that others truly understand. I'm glad you got plenty of responses lily, although nobody other than you and your DP can change arrangements for you I know how contact with people who can truly empathise with you really helps.

I just wanted to say that only a few months back I was directed to this thread because I'd posted myself, desperate for advice from people who know how this feels. Even with the amazing support I had from the girls here I still plunged to new depths when my second cycle failed. A woman who ordinarily worships her SD I was really struggling. I couldn't bear to speak about her or look at her let alone be around her, care for her and prioritise her like I usually did. DH was terrified that I was never going to change and, quite frankly, so was I. I rejected her big time a d though I hated myself for it I felt powerless to change it. This would have meant game over for my marriage too. BUT it changed.

I didn't notice it happening but, despite the ongoing pain (that I still feel every single day), that insecurity and jealousy has faded and I almost love her like she's my own again. I'm not so naive to think that if I cycle again those feelings won't resurface but please take heart from the knowledge that usually these feelings are temporary. Big hugs to you all and Molly good luck for Friday, you are officially one of my VIPs as I want a BFP for you as much as I want one for myself!!  And wisp, you're not an evil stepmother, the very fact that you worry about its potential means you're not. Disney are apparently becoming revolutionised with their more gender appropriate stereotypes, perhaps they can rewrite the stepmother role! My SD suggested they should as apparently I'm a lovely stepmum, not wicked at all even though I tell her off when she needs it (and I'm ashamed to say sometimes when I'm grumpy!  ) But, she says, "there's bound to be loads of lovely stepmums out there be nice if Disney would show that!" Times like that it's easy to see why I love her. Relish it now I think before the teen years properly take hold!  xxx


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## Molly99

Morning wonderful ladies xx  This really is my favourite thread, it feels like the only one where I can 'let it all hang out' without judgement  



Wisp, I don't know much about wills.  Our solicitor and the will guidance said that this was to prevent the will from being challenged, which can happen if someone feels aggrieved that they weren't included.  The said that this could happen with ex wives / girlfriends where children are involved and they don't feel that they were left anything / enough.  Obviously this would be in the guise of it 'being for the children'!  DH and his ex were never married but the potential of it was worrying enough.  Who knows if it means much.

I completely understand how you feel about the holiday Wisp.  It would turn it into a very different type of holiday for you, which wasn't the plan as holidays with kids certainly is different to one with adults and a partner!  It's funny because I cope a million times better when the kids are with us than when they are away.  For me, its definitely because every plan we have has to involve his ex and then negotiations, we can never be spontaneous or free to do whatever we want without involving another woman.  It drives me crazy.

I used to feel like this a lot.  I think that we get trapped into a horrible place where we start to compete for our DH's attention, just like another child and not an equal.  This doesn't happen in biological families because each of you would feel equally comfortable and equally needed / loved and not like an add on.

It took a long time for me to start feeling different but I do still struggle when the children haven't been here for a while.  This coming weekend is a prime example I guess.  It feels like the most important weekend of my life, potentially the worst, and I have to have guests in my house.  It's the kids home too but they still feel like guests.  I bet that my DH wouldn't want my Mum staying when he was going through something life changing  

MissMayhem,     Your kind words brought tears to my eyes this morning.  I feel like you do.  When we're all together, this feels like a wonderful family.  My family.  It breaks my heart when they go.

I love what you said about Disney.  I was so disappointed when watching Up after my transfer that the Step Mother was again shown as wicked and evil.  She was the one stopping the boy from seeing his father - not that the father was a bad one, it had to be the other woman didn't it.  It drives me crazy, how disappointing.  I Googled it and there are so many posts about it.  I hope that they change.  With more children growing up as lovely and accepting as our steppies and with more women becoming step parents themselves, it's about time they changed.  Rant over  

Oh lovely ladies.  I woke up feeling incredibly anxious this morning.  It's my official beta day today, 10dp5dt, but my satellite clinic felt that leaving it until Friday would give us more of an indication of viability ( ) seeing as it takes us most of the day to get there for it.  Today has really jolted me into reality though, I'm having a really worrying pessimistic morning.  What if this really is it for me, no more tries, no more chances, no more hope.  Forever watching DH be a parent from the sidelines to another woman's children    I don't know what I'll do.  PLEASE PLEASE little frostie, be there and be strong x

How will I cope with the children arriving and then having to wait until they go to bed so that DH can give me my results?  If it's the worst news then how will it feel to breakdown and upset the children, what lie will we spin them this time?  How will it feel to be left at home with my heart breaking whilst DH is off having fun and a lovely time with his children instead of being their to support me or at least show that he's disappointed to - yet again?

Oh dear.  Off to do some Zita West again.  The pressure of this all happening again is feeling too much.  I'm so afraid.  Trying to stay positive.  Come on beautiful baby xx


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## MissMayhem

Hi Molly, haven't got time to post properly as in work and not sure if I'm going to get time to get back on here this evening either as have two new jobs to apply for BUT wanted to send you a lovely big, Welsh cwtch   and some positivity for your little frostie  .  Got everything crossed for you and wish you didn't have to have the doubts and worries that you are having today, also know that unfortunately there is no avoiding them for us either though.  Hopefully catch up with you later but, if not, hope Zita does the trick for you.   xxx


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## Lilly83

Thanks again for the advice I can tell from your words that you know exactly how I must be feeling, well he knew something was up and had a go and said he is fed up of being made to feel bad when he goes his mums, I told him I didn't want to cancel but I thought it unfair how he went about it and he should of spoken to me and I was annoyed that the other night I said ok as long as I get notice but then it was suddenly next week, also he had obviously discussed it all with his folks before he asked the ex as they both called all excited to ask how it went, he doesn't seem to get why I was upset, he didn't see how sept/oct gradually easing everyone into it with day trips isn't the same as suddenly Sunday for 2 nights, and every week, when I said I thought it was bad timing he flipped and was all 'how dare you say my daughter coming here is ever bad timing, its never bad timing as far as I'm concerned' etc etc, he really lost it, we have smoothed things over for now I think, still have this horrible horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach and I'm dreading coming home to them both here, I know he also likes her to get in his bed when she wakes in the night and I said half sarcastically 'well I can take the sofa if needs be' to which he said thanks!!!! Argh!!!! I don't know how I'm gonna get through it  

Molly...so sorry about your mc that must of been so so tough and even harder with them there, what was dps views on you going through it with them there?  Guess it always kicks off with you guys too, I understand he gets defensive over her but I swear he gets so wrapped up in himself and thinks the slightest thing is 'disrespecting' his dd. he has done loads to make me feel insecure, said horrible things in arguments to hurt me, I really feel I live in his exes shadow too, I feel our life revolves around her decisions and he bows down to it, I also sometimes think if this 3rd ivf doesn't work I wish I had the strength to walk away as it hurts so so much I don't think I can be with him how things are.  

Hope your 2ww is going well it sounds it, I do have a cd someone gave me will have to check it out for mine

Cranky angie...that first sentence completely sums up how I feel things are too, he had a period of not seeing her due to the ex being a ***** over me and I know it must if been so tough but he had opportunities to get legal help from a family member of mine and didn't take it for risk of upsetting the ex, so he won't stand up to her which frustrates me as he had the chance, when I went to his mums with him during the first ivf (met dsd a few times behind her mums back) he made me hide upstairs when she was collecting her from his mums, and when we went to a deli to get lunch he was acting dead weird and then said would I mind waiting in the car incase his ex drove past, wouldn't mind but dsd wasn't even with us, made me feel so small hiding upstairs when his mum was there too. 

How old is your dsd? I imagine it gets worse the older they get? And don't blame you about the wedding good call, I was left on my own last Xmas eve for 2 days a few days after being told I had pof and needed DE and our cycle was cancelled, he also missed my 30th last year too so if we marry I would absolute want it just us, although I imagine he has her lined up for bridesmaid duties!


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## Lilly83

Wisp.... That's exactly how I feel, I'm literally dreading walking through the door and them being here, maybe I have built it up to be something terrible I know but my chest feels tight just thinking about it, this is my house, my safe place!  That's exactly how I would feel about the holiday too, does he get upset or do you try to hide how you feel? I try to hide it but it bubbles over sometimes, or sometimes when I think I'm doing a good job of hiding it I'm not! It's good to know things have improved for you but I guess it always be there ready to slap us around the face. He was lecturing me last night about all my medications (I have morphine/tramadol and fentanyl etc stashed in my dressing room) and he was making me triple check I had cleared it all, I felt knackered from DR and he was fussing about everything he wanted me to move which was everything and I was literally bubbling over with anger. 

Missmayhem... Sorry about your cycle, those are the feelings I have and I can't admit it to anyone, he posts a pic on ******** and I can't bare to look at it, he used to post 30 a day on access days and it took him 8 months to take the hint, we would text me pics all day when I was going through ivf and show me vids when he got home, and I would often wake up in the night to him all glassy eyed mesmerised by a 'hilarious' video of her, like I said when we got the donor news he was going on about how much she looked like him etc. You sound like you have a good relationship with her, well done! I really hope that's me further down the line I really do, does it get easier? Any words of wisdom? 


Everyone... What relationships with the mums do you have? I think that makes it harder for me, and then the donor stuff on top just sent me over the edge with it all, I can't believe she has finally backed down, although knew she would when she got a new man, I hate the fact he told me all about her pregnancy, labour and birth too, and I have seen all the hospital and 1st day home pics and videos, wish I could unsee them  

Lilly xx


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## Cranky Angie

Wow this is a busy thread all of a sudden will try and be brief  

Molly - glad u thought my post was fantastic, I try to be as eloquent around DH but most of the time might as well go bang my head against the side of the house for all the difference it makes.   the latest is asking him to HELP a bit now I am 35 weeks pregnant. He's very happy to tell me not to do this and not to do that, meanwhile there's piles of stuff everywhere and if I don't move it who will  . Good luck for OTD I shall be thinking of you. OTDs are so hard, in fact on the last two cycles I have tested on the day AFTER OTD as I wimped out!!!! What time do the kids arrive? Hope you have some time to get your head round whatever you need to get your head round.  

Wisp  - I can totally relate to where you we coming from about the holiday. This is how I see it, you have been trying really hard with DP and his kids, forming relationships, putting yourself out, putting them first, being mature and sensible and the grown up in all of this .... And your holiday was your little reward. Some time out for just you, and you and DP together. And now this has been taken away from you because the little darlings (how old are they by the way) will now be there (maybe) taking priority YET AGAIN!!!!! I would feel exactly the same. And I disagree, having YOUR family around is different from having steppies cos presumably they are ADULTS, not kids I guess to make the playing field even you and DP need a holiday together, no family, no kids. Now you're talking    But I do totally get you. Every summer, Christmas, Easter, ie every HOLIDAY our steppies turn up (and they are now 19 and 23) and at a time when I feel DH should be having some quality relaxation time with good old ME because he works so hard the rest of the time, no steppies turn up and I get pushed out and ignored.  For me the best retaliation is for steppies to want to spend time with ME not him!!! I love it when the steppies confide in me, not him, or send me ******** messages or texts and not him. He can't bear it cos he likes to keep them all to himself but it totally serves him right. 

Miss M ...l know what you mean about the Disney thing. My DH used to introduce his kids to people and then me as the "wicked stepmother" as a joke. Wasn't funny as you can imagine. 

Lilly really angry with how DP has treated you with all the hiding etc but not surprised. I think they do it for the easy life so they don't have to deal with confrontations and 'scenes' as my DH used to call them. Especially in front of the kids. Although ex wives don't see to mind making confrontations and scenes .... And in front of the kids. Can also totally relate to how he was making you tidy up before the steppies arrived. My DH always does that too!!! Like he doesn't mind if the house if messy or untidy when we're here, but suddenly a couple of kids turn up and we have to roll out the red carpet!  

Anyway, said I would be brief an have not been. Very tired so off to bed now. As to the question do steppies get easier or harder? I found that an interesting one. I think my relationship with my steppies is pretty good now. I still don't have a go at them about stuff like I know i would if they were my own, but we have a good relationship. I still find DH way too soft and indulgent of them. And I feel that he's not very nice to me when they're around. This makes holidays tough. I keep trying to explain this to DH but he says I'm just jealous of him spending time with them. I don't know. Maybe he's right, I was an only child so am not used to sharing. But funny as I think Molly pointed out, I never feel like that around our own DS. Feelings run deep and it's hard to figure out. 

Better go am shattered.  Too tired to even read what I wrote. Sorry if its a load 
Of tosh.  

Night, ange xxxxxx


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## Molly99

Lily, honestly your post left me speechless . It was also very scarily similar to my own experience at the start.

I wish, I wish that I could go back to where you are now and do it all again properly (in an odd way as it wasn't a period of my life that I'd particularly relish reliving!). Any, and I do mean every, book / website / advice that you can care to find will tell you how important it is to both discuss the implications of step family life before getting into it. We were completely rose tinted at the start and didn't do this even slightly and it has led to 4 years of upset. This is what I've learned:

1. Moving a child in with a new or existing partner means that you HAVE to talk. There is no whitewashing, no kicking off because he doesn't like the answer, it's non negotiable. If you don't then it will all fall apart eventually, they want what's best for their child - a healthy, happy home is what is best for their child and for everyone (which they should be thinking about too)

2. The kicking off is bullying. Having lived with a terrible bully before I met my DH and taking 11 years to escape, I don't use this word lightly. But it is bullying. It is having a tantrum and making you feel silly / bad / horrible for the way that you feel. Of course you are nervous, you are about to share your life and your home with someone you don't know, this doesn't happen with the wave of a magic wand, it happens through understanding, compromise and time.

3. You need to think about and discuss the definitive lines, those that make you uncomfortable, which might change over time but which might not. What is it that makes you feel uncomfortable or where are your lines around personal space. I understand keeping meds and the like out of harms way but if they are securely in your room in a safe space then this is your personal space and it is ok. Equally, the bed is not an appropriate place for two strangers to meet. My DH made this mistake over and over again, I tried to live with it but in the end it all ended bad because I felt invaded, I needed this one place that was mine & ours. I didn't want to share it with someone that I didn't know, it didn't feel remotely right for any of us (as an aside, DH was really upset when he found out that his ex shared a bed with a new boyfriend and the kids, I couldn't see why it was ok for us). We went to hell and back with this one (including a horrendous honeymoon row when DH wanted SD in our bed  ). DH eventually spent the night with the kids in their bed. Fine, well not fine, but let him be uncomfortable if it means that I had some personal space. I like the kids in with us when we are awake now but ultimately the goal is for a child to feel happy and comfortable in their own space and you want to help them with this. I totally see it from their point of view, they share such little precious time with their children and want to enjoy every minute but we all have to sacrifice a little and life will never be the same as if they were with the mother of those kids.

4. Never sleep on the sofa, not once lovely. Do not let him sideline you, it is your house and you get a say in what goes on in it.

5. He's over reacting and pushing his weight around, which is understandable in a way because he's finally getting a say in where his child lives. His rights aren't more important than yours though just because he has a child. It is all give and take. If he wants to live like a single dad then he will end up being one again.

6. You need to be secure in your role. What does he expect of you & what can you offer - as little or as much as you are comfortable with. This might change over time.

7. Bedtimes need to be set and stuck to. In the early days, my steppies were very unsettled the poor loves, but it was so important for us to set our own routine and I needed at least a couple of hours between them going to bed and me, just to unwind and regroup with my DH. This was a radically different routine to their mother's, who has a 'natural parenting approach' where they went to bed at gone midnight and stayed up with the adults at ages 4 and 6. This isn't appropriate for children, it caused upset and terrible tantrums but it was worth it and they thrived on it (and were certainly less tantrumy in the morning from sheer exhaustion)

Hmmm, sorry for the rant. I'm passionate about this, we did is sooooo wrong and could have saved ourselves so much trouble and heartache. I read a gizillion books but I didn't really take in how important the early days are.

I bet that you'll end up being surprised and that she will cling to you more than him! The Disney Dad routine isn't always the one that a child will go to. They need balanced love too.

Good grief, war and peace here! Sorry! I have to add though that I have no relationship with his ex. DH choose me and he is the responsible parent when they are here, I didn't feel that his ex had any role in his choice and as long as the kids are happy then she shouldn't. His ex did want to meet me and, if she hadn't been threatening and wanting me to go around to their house for a _family _ dinner without my DH then it might have happened. My ex bullied me terribly and it will never happen again. It is the kids happiness and security that I care about, not whether his ex wants to vet me or inspect our home - that's never going to happen and you do have a choice about this.

Cranky, I'm absolutely with you about the testing. If this is my last ever feeling of PUPO then I am going to enjoy every last second of it. Tomorrow I may or may not be pregnant, but today I am  Grrrr, to your DH too!

Grr to my DH too. His ex said he wasn't even allowed to pick up the kids even slightly late on Friday. It all came to a head and I would rather him not here than expose them to potentially an incredibly inappropriate environment over the weekend. He's going to have a mini break again. He wants to be here if the news is good but not if it's bad. So much for for better or for worse


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## MissMayhem

Not ignoring anyone else but the end of a long day so just wanted to quickly say Molly been tthinking of you and I so wish that DH's ex could show a teeny bit of humanity and could have had a thought for you today. What I wish from DH for you goes without saying. I really hope that today was a good one for you. Small consolation but, please remember, we're all here if not. Much love xxx


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## Molly99

My dear friends, it was a huge BFN for me today.  My journey has ended and so it feels my life.

DH booked their holiday tonight, he leaves first thing to be with the kids.  I feel that I have nothing left to live for.  I feel abandoned and totally alone when I need him most.  Three cycles, 3 BFNs, 3 times he's left me straight afterwards to take the kids on a mini break.


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## Lilly83

Molly I'm so so sorry

Will catch up properly on the thread tomorrow my appt didn't go so well

What's the reason for the break now? Sorry if you have said already, god I'm so so angry for you, I was left on otd (not for a break admittedly)  

What the hell is wrong with them?? My heart hurts for you it really really does xx


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## artist_mum

Molly
I am in tears for you.  So very very hard to take.  Just the IVF let alone him going off on a mini break.  It is an impossible situation for those of us with steppies - and all we need is some space and time with our man.  I don't think it is unreasonable.  It really is so unfair.

I don't know what to say - just want to send you loads of  , I do hope you can call someone and have a friend or family to give you the love and care that you need right now.  I know it should be your bloke but do you have someone to talk with?

Maybe you are near someone off FF?  I'm sure any one of us would meet up with you to help right now..

Bless you, i'm sure you will find your way through this and to happier times.

Be strong xxx


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## Lilly83

I'm in Manchester if anyone never wants a steppie meet up x


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## MissMayhem

Molly I don't know what to say, my heart aches for you it really does. I so wish you could have the support you need and deserve right now. My DH certainly wasn't the best during and immediately after our treatment. A lot of men just simply cannot grasp the gravity of what we are facing, I would like to think that if they could they wouldn't dream of saying/doing some of the things they do. I've had many moments where I've really thought there was no point to me living anymore and am sure I will experience that again if I have more treatment. I know that there's nothing that any of us can say to console you at the minut but echo what artistmum is saying. I know our automatic response is to shut off from the world, particularly as the one person who ought to be there for us isn't. And I know that for some part shutting off and letting the emotion out can be beneficial. But a point then comes where we need some nurture and care; is there somebody close who you can turn to?? If not it may absolutely be an idea to find out where we all are just in case one of us is close to you. I'll inbox you where I am just in case.xxxx


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## Molly99

Oh wonderful ladies, thank you from the bottom of my heart for your support and kindness.  I don't know what I would have done without you xxx

Well, DH left, came back, left and then came back .... and stayed.  Thank God, I just can't tell you what that means.  He has never done that before, I'm still in shock that he did.  His ex was calling every 30 seconds, to be honest, I think that he turned the phone off in the end, which is huge for him.  We are obviously going to have some massive  consequences because of today, judging from her past behaviour it will likely be bad.  I'm sorry that we messed her around when it could have been pre-planned but this weekend has been an emergency after all.  DH did behave very badly towards all of us but he came up trumps for me and I need him more than ever right now.

I'm very sad that the kids got caught up in it though, that wasn't fair  

I am so scared and confused.  I don't know what life will be like for me now, this isn't the life that I want.  All I can think is that no one will ever call me mum, DH and I will never share life's most precious gift I'll have to watch him share it with another woman    It is my worst nightmare, I don't know how to face it.

Thank you for being there for me.  I feel a fraud being on here now, I don't know where I belong anymore.  I know that we will never conceive naturally, another round of ivf is emotionally and financially an impossibility and adoption doesn't seem like an option with DH's ex being a key witness  

Life seems pretty bleak and hopeless


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## Cranky Angie

Molly I'm so sorry this must be heartbreaking. Please just take a little time just to allow yourself to grieve for your loss before you think longer term. I'm so glad that DH is back with you where he should be.  His ex can just deal with things for now, god some people are so selfish. 

I don't know what else to say, except I know how hard the bfns are. It has felt like the end of the road for me before but then we (I) somehow found the courage and the money to try again. I know this may not be an option for you, all I am saying is take some time to grieve this loss before you start thinking about the rest of your life. You are just putting too much pressure on yourself and its too too much. You need to be kind to yourself right now not beat yourself up with more heartache by thinking of what your future will or won't look like. 

When things have calmed a little and the grief isn't quite so raw, in a few days, think again realistically about yours and DHs life, you are still relatively young in IVF terms, lots of us (me included) have conceived much later than you, either with OE or DE. Research it, talk to people on here, think about it, write things down, ....  Whatever helps. You clearly love DH, you are clearly a wonderful stepmother, but you have to think of yourself too and YOUR happiness and YOUR dreams. You only have one life. Be true to yourself and don't sell yourself short. 

I'm probably waffling now but please just take care of yourself. The nature of IVF is that it is tough, it doesn't work a lot of the time and it is emotionally exhausting. We all know as we have all been there. But we are all here for you to offload and to support you. Please don't ever think you don't belong. This is exactly where you DO belong because we are the only people,that truly understand how hard it is. 

Just keep posting and we'll keep helping. 
Lots of love ange xxxxx


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## Molly99

I'm so sorry for taking over this thread, I feel so selfish   I just don't feel like I have anywhere else to go.

DH being here yesterday was just so huge, he's never done that before and I really didn't think that he ever would.  It meant so much.  He listened to many an outpouring, he wasn't much help but he was listening and trying    He was there, that was all that really mattered.

We even went out for some fresh air and had a lovely potter, we were both really sad but together and we knew that we were worth all of this heartache.  Within the space of a 20 minute drive home though, he had changed.  He went almost completely comatose, he would only grunt at me and looked dreadful.  Stress, I know, so I left him to do his thing and did some gardening.  I knew that something was up though, I know him so well.

It came out this morning that he is angry and resentful for having had to miss seeing the kids this weekend.  All of our loveliness and putting our marriage first just this once seems to have completely gone, it feels like he was going through the motions of duty not love.  I know that it is Father's Day and he's feeling it but if we can go through our dreadful lifelong final BFN together then I thought that we could weather this together too.  He's not willing to share this though and he's really resenting me for having to miss them    

It must be hard and I really feel for him but I thought that he made the choice to come back yesterday because he wanted to, not because he was forced into it   

I'm so confused and frustrated.  This is just the most horrible thing to say, please do not judge me, but I feel like I'm sacrificing my dreams and the life that I want to be with him and he can't miss a weekend.  This is my forever and I choose him because I love him but I feel like he's chosen the kids and that he doesn't see me a part of their family because I couldn't cope with them being here yesterday.  We've been working through our problems and the bitterness that I've felt over him not really trying for our baby or not being able to willingly sacrifice a few weekends for the sake of our treatment but he can't do the same over what feels like such a minor impact on his lifetime with the children  

I don't think that we're going to make it through this    We're waiting a few days for life to calm but we've been talking about splitting up.  We haven't been happy since I started trying for a baby, how sad it that  , it is the route of all of our rows.  When it comes down to it, I don't think that he can share his life with me too, there only seems room for him, the children and his ex.  I have terrible thoughts where I wish that they would get back together because I really do think that would be better for everyone  

He's gone away today for his sport and decided to see the kids, if his ex will let him.  I think that they might spend the night away afterall.  I wish that he hadn't come back yesterday now, it feels like it just caused more problems


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## MissMayhem

Oh molly  . I just came on here to say that I was glad that DH finally came through for you, had an alert that someone had posted so came to check and here you are.  You're not hijacking this thread at all. It's a thread where all of us will take our 'turns' for various reasons and right now it's your time, I wish the circumstances were different for you and your time could be a happy one. But it's not, it sounds like your most painful experience yet and it's important that you continue to use this space to get a little bit of what you need. For what it's worth it doesn't sound to me like duty and not love, it sounds like someone trying to juggle all the important aspects of their life. I say this not necessarily because of my DH (who also was very resentful when I 'made' him prioritise me after my first failed cycle) but because of my WONDERFUL father who also is a stepfather. He has raised me and my sister as we were his own and has been as loving towards us as he is our brother (who is his bio son). As an adult and a step-parent now myself he has given me advice from both sides of the fence, supporting me in my role and also telling me how hard it can be to juggle your children, a bitter ex and a new love and life. I'm not saying that to excuse your DH but am just trying to understand also. Yesterday I wanted to 'give him what for' on your behalf and then was so pleased he stayed and prioritised you. I wonder if it's guilt he's feeling. I don't need to tell you how all over the place with emotion we are at times like these, what I will say though is a repeat of what a wise woman said to me when I was in the midst of it: don't make life altering decisions when emotions and grief are so high. If I hadn't listened to her I may be single as we speak. Sometimes I still think that may be the better option and there's still a possibility it may happen. But, if it does, I will know that it wasn't done in haste and as something we tried so will be one less regret on my list. I know what you mean about sacrificing your dream, I feel the same and will absolutely not let that happen ultimately. This is such a horrible time for you right now. Just please don't take on additional worry yourself by overthinking the situation with your steppies. You love and care for them and God only knows if there was a way you could avoid any of you being in this position you would do it! They have a mother who has to take responsibility for their emotional wellbeing; just because there are times where she doesn't, doesn't mean all the responsibility has to lay at your  door. She sounds like a selfish, unyielding, heartless cow. Unfortunately there are many of them about too. You focus on yourself you've got enough on your plate as it is.xxx


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## Cranky Angie

Oh Molly I really feel for you. Infertility and IVF puts the most enormous stress on marriages and relationships, my DH and I also nearly split up many many times over it. In the end the only way I could carry on doing it was to just do it all alone, tell him I WAS doing it as this was the most important thing in MY life, just like how important HIS kids were to HIS life and I wasn't going to give up on it. I did however spare him details of arrangements, injections, appointments, flights, and emotional heartache, because he just could not deal with it. So I had to. I am not an emotionally strong person and it nearly killed me at times going through it alone but I just used to come on FF to get my emotional support. I had none from him and none from my family who were dead against it. 

For what it's worth I think he is being very selfish, but I think men are. My DH went to Bermuda during my last IVF cycle and when he returned he didn't even mention my BFN for a whole day, he just spent the whole day talking about his holiday. When he eventually mentioned it in the evening and I said, that took you long enough, he just said, oh just let me have a bit of happiness won't you. The thing is if you did get pregnant your DH would be fine just like mine is now. He's really looking forward to this baby. But this baby would not be on its way if it was up to him. And financially I have pretty much paid for it all myself. It's made me very selfish in other areas of our life together like I let him pay for all the holidays, bills, food etc without offering to help, I've just squirrelled all my spare cash away for IVF. 

I'm sorry you are alone today but this is an opportunity for you to get your head together. He clearly has reached breaking point and you just need to give him that space for the sake of your marriage. I don't believe you should wish him and his ex back together, he is married to you not her, you are just at a very very low point. But like I said yesterday I don't know that you can give up on your dreams for him, wont this mean in the future you will just resent him? Don't talk about splitting up anymore, let things settle for a week or two, you are both hurting now. 

Thinking of you today. Each day does get a little easier I promise, but you do need a plan ....... 

Love ange xxxxx x


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## artist_mum

Hi Molly

Don't think you are hijacking the thread.. it's here for exactly this. And anyway, all of us responding know we have all been in similar places to you so many times. You are not alone in how harsh this is&#8230; I too have had many times thinking I would be better to get on with my own life and foster as a single lady or something like that.

I too read your post saying that your dh had come back and was so pleased for you.. and then he unpicks all the good with his choices today. Aaargh..it is so very hard. It sounds like he is also very confused right now.  And very angry. And it may not be what he thinks. He may be really angry about the IVF result. I underestimated how upset my DP was until weeks later he mentioned that he was upset seeing loads of babies in prams at a fete - i was gobsmacked. So don't make final decisions even in your mind. It may not be as you think it is right now.

When i try to write to you, so many thoughts and feelings come out because I empathise EXACTLY with your situation and i really feel your pain. It IS confusing. Falling in love with a man and then finding over the years that he is in love with 2 other people too - which is fine and as it should be BUT it seems, they come first _whatever_ is going on for you. So hard for everyone involved but bottom line with these guys&#8230; WHY WOULDN"T THEY MISS ONE WEEKEND when they have a lifetime of kids?? And I do wonder who it is really for because we all know that if you tell kids in a calm open way that they are doing a weekend with mum or a weekend with Dad - they don't really mind! As long as ice cream is involved!! So what i'm saying is that I have noticed over the years that the ex and my DP often need to see the children for _themselves_, not for the kids. And as we all know, these weekend arrangements become great grounds for the ex to exert control and there becomes some kind of push and pull between the two ex. At times I feel that they are just continuing their stupid ended relationship via arguments and controlling tactics related to money and visits. So ridiculous and such a waste of everybodys life.

I too have had thoughts that perhaps they would have been better to stay together and leave me to make my own life but I don't suppose these thoughts help us very much - it's hard not to think it though.

PLEASE please look after your day today and go find your comforting things - chocolate? Films on the sofa? Outdoors walk somewhere beautiful? I don't know but you can make a real breakthrough for yourself. He is making his choices and you can make yours. i Know what a big ask it is, to say: make this day good for YOU.. i really hope you can and know that me, and i'm sure all the others on here, are with you and sending you huge positive vibes for healing and your wonderful future to come. Just got to get through this bit 

Huge 
xx


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## Molly99

Oh God, it just keeps getting worse.  DH did go to see the kids but decided not to tell me.  I texted an hour ago because I was getting hungry and he said they'd decided to go camping. 

It would have taken him 20 seconds to let me know earlier.  It's all words with him, we're a family? It's all rubbish.  He thinks so little of me and my place in his family that he doesn't even bother to tell me he's staying the night away


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## Cranky Angie

Molly I don't know what to say, it makes me so angry that he is not considering your feelings but he has obviously gone into his man cave. Just look after yourself. I think you should revisit this whole scenario with him at some time in th future when the dust has settled, if it were me I think I might just write down everything I was so hurt and upset by so that in the future you can discuss what exactly he put you through at what was an incredibly low point for you. Have you got no one else who can give you some support right now? Friends, family? 

Poor you, my heart goes out to you. 
Ange xxx


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## rubster

WTF? 

Seriously? Ah Molly, you know I'm usually pretty balanced, but that takes the f*cking p*ss! 

I'm actually physically hurting for you right now. We all are. But then we have been through it/are going through it, so we can empathise in a way that the DH's simply CAN'T. I'm not saying that to let him off the hook, but just to try to help you not drop a pot of boiling oil on his head from an upstairs window when he does return. 

I really understand everything you say about IF and stepchildren, because I've emotionally supported my sister through the same thing. It really is so so hard. It can't at all be easy to constantly feel like second best.

You've often mentioned your mum and sister - are they living close by? Could you lean on them for some support?

Sending lots of love       and love from Dublin

R xxx


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## Molly99

Wonderful ladies, I think that I've reached my limit.  In the few seconds that DH was here this morning, I told him to find somewhere else to live.  Now I'm waiting to hear back from my clinic as I'm still getting feint poas positives.

Stupid I know but the blood test was so disconnected, I didn't feel  part of it at all.  I wanted closure on Saturday but it came back faintly positive but definitely two lines.  Same yesterday and same today with a clear blue this time.

Clinic says should be impossible with a beta as low as mine, so I'm waiting to hear back from a doctor.

All I can think about is what if she was a really late starter and I killed her by coming off the meds?  All I want is to tell DH but he thought it unimportant so why would he care now, it would all be fake.

I've reached capacity lovely ladies.  I've started bleeding now too, it's too late for everything


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## Wisp

Molly,

I have just caught up on this thread since my posting on Tuesday night. I am at work and have tried not to cry, but the tears are in my eyes and my heart is breaking for you, god knows how you must be feeling, utterly devastated I imagine. I have been thinking of you all week and so hoping for a BFP for you, I am so, so sorry to hear your news and all that has unfolded with you and your DH.  I don't have long to write at the moment I'm afraid, but I am here for you, we all are and as others have said you're not 'taking over'. 
Sorry if I have to go abruptly...

Just hold on, I know it must be so so painful but hang on in there, I am assuming you're not at work? Is there anyone who can be with you today and you could bear to have with you?


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## artist_mum

Molly

so sorry it has got worse for you with DH and this confusing bloods/POAS readings. That just doesn't help you.

Wisp is right - it might be good to have somebody with you if you can.  You have so much going on and that' s difficult to handle alone.

I don't know how this cycle will end up for you - if there is a late chance..  But what I do know is that contrary to how you might see it, you are still young.  These days, 40 is still young and there are many many ladies who have conceived later.  I know this is heartbreaking for you and there are so many difficulties with DH and steppies/ex but you still have time.  Really you do.  In whatever scenario that ends up being.  Don't give up hope

xx


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## Wisp

*Molly* - Hope you are okay I have been thinking of you. 

Just going back a bit to my post about my steppies and the holiday next year, as I haven't replied to people who were really kind in giving me support....thank you all...

*Lily83* - Glad we can relate to each other on these issues, it is so hard at times. At the weekend I realised how my DH must feel when I said the steppies being there would spoil the holiday for me. I mentioned it to my mum and her reaction was awful! Just like mine had been and it really, really hurt! She said it would be chaos if they came too (they are 6 and 10 and my nephew and two nieces would all be coming too, so perhaps it would be quite chaotic, but still!) and it felt so rejecting. I really understood for the first time how it must feel when DH hears me saying things like that.

In terms of relationships with the children's mums, my steppies have two different mums just to make matters worse! and I do not have a relationship or any contact with either of them. This is mainly because my DH likes to keep our life separate and not put me in that position, which suits me very well. I have met one of them before but that's it. They never come to our house, DH takes them home or if it is their turn to collect them they meet nearby. This feels fine for us and so far has worked well. He only has contact with them visa text to arrange pick up/drop off and if there is any serious issue about the children.

How did the weekend go? You will have had SD to stay now won't you? As the others said I think boundaries are crucial, my steppies do not get in our bed at all, they have set bed times and have to tidy their room and put there things away before they go home. We have a consistent routine, which is really helpful and we go out and do nice things as well as staying at home and being in the garden.

*MissMayhem* - Thank you for what you said about how step mothers are portrayed in films etc...I think my steppies would think I'm a nice step mum, they tell me they love me a lot. I may have these horrible feelings at times, but I do not act them out and take them out on the children. I could see how someone who is less self-aware could slip in to that sort of thing, scary!

*Cranky Angie * - My steppies are 6 (girl) and 10 (boy) years old. You made me smile with what you said about liking it when your steppies confide in you etc, it's nice they include you even though your DH tries to keep them to himself! We have the children this Christmas, part of me knows it will be nice, but the other part feels sad that we don't have our own baby to share it all with. It just feels so unfair sometimes.

Thank you all so much for the support!


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## Cranky Angie

Hi all
*molly* how are you doing. What's the latest? You've gone quiet which is worrying for us. Hope you are ok. We need an update   

*wisp* it's good that you are starting to see things from DH and steppies point of view. I think that's one thing I've had to learn to .... That hard as it is for me (and lets face it it is really hard being a stepmom, especially when you don't have your own kids to cuddle and love ) you do have to sometimes come at it from their angle too. What have you decided over the whole holiday thing now? I must say I always found (and still find) holidays the hardest of times. It's so intense, you can't get away, little niggles mount up and up and up and seem to get worse and your relationship with your OH just seems to be on a downward spiral if you're anything like me ....  I don't know what the solution is. Maybe just take it all with a large pinch of salt and not let it get to you. Easier said than done though I know from bitter experience. Good luck. 

Ange xxx


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## Molly99

Thank you for thinking of me.  Sometimes I just can't understand why anyone would, you are so kind to me.

DH left me this morning  

I'm so sorry for no personals, I am do think of you all xxx


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## Cranky Angie

Oh Molly I'm so so sorry. I wish I could be there to give you á hug and tell you it will be ok and it will get better, because it will. But that doesn't help you right now. I can't believe you are having to deal with this on top of everything else, but you will get through it, you are stronger than you think. Just keep posting, we are all here for you. Hope you have some friends and family around to support you now. 
Ange xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## artist_mum

Molly

Also thinking of you and wishing I could be there to have a tea and a chat and give you a hug and let you know that it will turn out alright in the end.  And I don't know what that will be, but I know it's so painful right now.

Loads of people are thinking of you because you are a lovely person who writes so beautifully about her steppies and who comes across as caring and thoughtful.  And it is just so completely unfair that your cycle hasn't brought you the baby you want.  Your DH and you may well sort things out, sometimes it all gets too much emotionally and somebody feels they have to walk out to relieve the pressure.  Which is totally S**T for you, as you need him there to care and understand your grief.  It is not a time when you should be called upon to support somebody else's family/issues so don't feel you didn't have the right to be massively upset and to need to be put FIRST.  Stick to your guns.  You deserve to be treated right at any time, especially right now. 

This is 'step mother with difficulties conceiving' is one of the hardest places to be in life.  We all know that and support you all the way.

Sending you so much care and light, and wishing you strength - you will survive this and you have time, loads of it, for a bright future with children if that's what you want.

xxx


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## MissMayhem

Oh molly, I'm so sorry to read this. I totally agree with artistmum in everything that she said. The fact that you sometimes wonder why we would even think of you speaks volumes about how your confidence has had an absolute battering this past few days/weeks and may be a reflection of how hard you've been having to fight for the attention and care that you so deserve. We WILL think of you as we share your pain and can 'feel' what a clever, warm and caring woman you are from your posts.

This whole journey is tough for even the strongest of couples I think and DH walking away at a time like this is so very cruel and may be something you will find it hard to forgive, but if he is meant to remain a part of your life journey it will work out somehow. If not, you will regain your strength and confidence and you will realise you dream one way or another. You have shown us you are intelligent and reflectice woman so you will formulate and action a Plan B when you have allowed yourself time to grieve a little, of this I am confident. 

I can only begin to imagine how things must be for you at the minute and just hope that you have someone you trust close to you to help you through this. And, you always have all of us, your little army of support and positivity. Please take good care of yourself and keep in touch, you don't have to share all the ins and outs if you don't want to but, like crankyangie said, check in from time to time so we know you are 'ok' (inverted commas as know you're not but...)

Lots of love  to you molly, and to all you other wonderful girls  xxx


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## Molly99

Oh lovely ladies, I am hurting so badly today.  I woke up with a crushing emptiness and numbness.  In the space of a week, I've found out that I will never have a baby and my marriage had ended.  I just can't see how it can get much worse.

I miss him so desperately.  I was so angry, hurt and frustrated with him and now I'm just feeling the terrible loss of him not being here again.

All I can think of is him saying yesterday that he doesn't know if he can or wants to be a husband as well as a father.  This is a competition that I am never going to win, especially as I still don't understand why it ever was a competition  

This deafening silence from him, the complete eradication of me and us is killing me, I've heard nothing from him not even an answer about him having all of the car keys    he's now with his family who I know dislike me because they've always thought me wanting a baby would ruin his and the kids lives...and now in their eyes they were right.  He needs the love and support of his family but it's hardly an environment that will support us as a couple or encourage him to come home


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## Wisp

Dear Molly,

I totally echo what Angie and MissMahyem have said, of course we think of you and for all he reasons they have both explained so well.  You have been an amazing support to me in the short time I have been on here.  You are so kind and wise. This is all so, so terrible because you would make an absolutely brilliant mum and to be robbed of that, and for a child to be, is simple a tragedy.

I am so sorry to hear that your DH has not even been in any contact with you and for you to feel he is off with his family, who may be glad he has left is just so awful. I could never understand why they felt so threatened at the thought of you and DH having a baby of your own.  I feel for you, it sounds like a really lonely place to be right now.

No wonder you are feeling the loss and feel so sad. I guess all you can do right now is be where you are at and be as kind to yourself as you can.  I know when you are in something like this it can feel like it will never get better, but in time it will, whatever happens.  Just over three years ago I was at an all time low, I ended a relationship that I was clinging to because I so wanted a family. I left just four months before we were meant to get married, invites had gone out, everything was booked. It was an absolute nightmare at the time. I had to move back in with my parents, who lost lots of money, but who were great.  We worked together as well, so as well as facing family and friends, I had to face work colleagues and him at work. It was such a dark and painful time in my life and I didn't know what the future held.  Three months later I met my current DH! I was terrified as I had feelings for him, but felt it was too soon and tried pushing him away. Thankfully he stuck with me and we now have a very strong and loving relationship.  We don't yet have our baby, but I would rather be with him and childless than in that old, unhappy relationship with my ex.

I am just telling you this to give you some hope and to say you never know what is around the corner or what life has in store for you. Hang on in there Molly, I know it must be such a painful time, you're going through huge losses. Sending you lots of love and hugs  .


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## artist_mum

Hey Molly

Hope you are OK and finding your way forward after a really tough time.  

Sending you  

xx


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## Molly99

Hello lovelies.  I find myself thinking about you a lot at the moment, I hope that you are all ok xxx

Welcome to the Titanic!  

We've been talking every day and every day it seems to be worse.  DH is severely ill with it now, I think that he is having a breakdown and I feel utterly dreadful and responsible.  We were talking nicely yesterday and suddenly it just went wrong, I thought that DH said he wouldn't consider adoption in the future because it would be too difficult, particularly for him and the kids.  I flipped completely and spouted such venom.  I think we are just both completely on the edge and reacting badly now, it's too soon to be thinking of this but then we need to think about our future together and whether we have one too.
Anyway, after it all calmed down, DH asked me for a divorce    He says that it is all for me and because he can't hold me back from having a child any more.  As soon as he said it, I knew that it was categorically not what I want and I have been trying to claw us back ever since.  I just feel completely devastated.

The saddest thing of all is that we ended up talking in bed after it all last night and DH painted the most beautiful picture he'd been imagining of us and a baby  .  It is all that I have been fighting for, just a little glimpse that he wanted this too.  This is what he did when I was pregnant, he wouldn't talk about it at all, we rowed because he never said anything nice and then a couple of weeks after it was over he said something lovely but that he didn't want to tell me at the time because he was worried how I'd react.  I just don't know what to say, it should be the hard stuff that is too difficult to say not the beautiful things.  We have severe communication problems,  I don't know quite what is real any more.

I had my first counselling session and it was really good.  She was quite shockingly open and direct about what she thought, I wasn't expecting that!  I am still feeling so defensive towards DH, which I see as a good thing and that it shows how much I truly care for him.  I don't have my head in the sand, but I do desperately want us to stay together.

Well, on the only plus side possible, in our warts and all fights DH has finally removed the photo of his ex and the receipt of the engagement ring he bought her from his bedside table.  It has plagued me ever since I found it a couple of years ago but after the ginormous stress that we had about finding memorabilia of her around our house I didn't have the backbone to raise it.  He is just completely blinkered to these things and I do honestly believe him that he just doesn't think, he never checks so didn't even know it was there.  Whatever the reason, it has gone   

The kids arrive on Friday.  DH is thinking about taking them away for the weekend.  I want them all to be here, we need a chance to prove that we can be together, if we never have that chance then it will always seem that it isn't possible.  It's not like they haven't been here at every other stage and we've coped, it's not even about coping, I want to put my heart into proving that I can be a part of our family.  I haven't seen them for over a month now too  

I am so sorry for my me me me me me me me memememememememmememememememe me posts    How are you all?  How are things going at home for you all too?

Thinking of you xxxx


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## MissMayhem

You've no need to apologise here molly, just hope you're doing ok. I'm trying to bite my tongue with SD at minute who has rocked up in a strop, accused me of being rude as had to tell her off! Had a lot to deal with this week so whilst I know to expect strops and cheek from her my patience is somewhat depleted today.......and breathe Mayhem, breathe!!  xx


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## Vickytick

Ladies,

I've been reading back through your posts and quite frankly I so wish you had all been there when I was struggling. Yes I'm lucky that I got my dream finally in feb and I would so love EVERY woman struggling to fulfil theirs as well but unfortunately our step family issues have actually got worse since my daughter was born.

My dh ex is a top rated b**** the things she has said and done in the past are horrific. Told me to just deal with my mc and IF, got ss to call dh on the day I was due to go in for a d&c after my last mc. Now she's trying to see my lo but I won't let her. Turns up at our house uninvited whilst dh is at work.

Anyway everyone thinks having my own baby should make me closer to ss but it's the polar opposite I want him and his mother out of my life. I feel he takes the time away from my lo. I've never really bonded with ss he's an odd child and I just find it harder and quite often I just want yo be by myself. I hate it when everyone refers to him as my lo brother (internally I scream half brother). No one understands and everyone expects me to love my ss like I do my child and his ex is always telling us they should be treated equally but he's not my child so why would I.

I love my dh but I do question our relationship and although we survived IF, IVF, mc this is now harder and I've often wanted to just walk and I too probably wouldn't have married him if I had known the future. I have strangers (his ex and her partner) knowing about everything we do, any rows we have and I hate that.

I'm made to feel a cow for not being Mary flipping Poppins with my ss but I'm human and step parenting is very tough. harder with a child that has social and emotional issues.

I want you all to know that you are human and dealing with IF with step child is hell. The constant reminder of what you can't do, comments about mummy this and mummy that. I'd defy the strongest person to handle it.

*Molly* I really hope that you can get through this. It's awful that such a horrific thing as IF can cause a dominio affect on your marriage. They can't truly understand as they have their children.  You come through this stronger as a couple.

Huge hugs girls.

Xx


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## MissMayhem

Hi vickytick, welcome and congratulations on the wonderful addition to your life. And thanks too for wishing us the same joy as you.   Not minimising anything you said about ss but really should be asleep so will post properly tomorrow (& reply to you sarapd). Just wanted to quickly say don't be so hard on yourself, Mary Poppins was a nanny not a stepmum (much harder job!), got paid for her troubles......and was fictional!  catch up properly soon.xx


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## Molly99

Morning lovelies, how are you all?

MissMayhem, how did your weekend go?  I hope that you managed to keep yourself sane!  It grates every time I read something like getting painted the bad guy for saying something or correcting behaviour.  It is just so wrong that you can't get irritated or set standards in your own home without being challenged for being a wicked step mum who has no right.  Of course there are ways of doing things but there are for parents too, we're no different after all  

Hello Vicky, welcome to the mad house    It's funny how the grass is often never greener in step families    I have heard a lot of people say that it gets harder.  Your story sounds so much like what we have to accept - our DH's not setting appropriate boundaries and then leaving us to struggle and not cope.  I really, really feel for you and it just isn't acceptable for his ex to come to your house at any point, especially without it being directly stepchild related and without your DH there.  I am no one to talk here, but what is your DH doing about this?

How are you doing Artistmum and Wisp?  Sending you lots of  

Well, it was our first weekend of having my steppies here and I was really afraid of how it would be, especially as DH had already shared the reason for him picking them up late on our test day was because of me.  I had lots of tears before they arrived, this was the first time that I would see them and watch DH being a father knowing that he will never be a father to a child of ours and I'll never be a parent.  It was as hard as I had expected but they are such lovely children that I think it will be ok one day.  I had loads of hugs and lovely things said and I even managed them talking about what an amazing time they had when DH left me and they went camping, a few sneaky   after that one though.

DH had planned to go to his parents again this weekend and we had a row about it, I can't believe still that he was thinking the way to solve a situation was to do exactly the same thing that has caused it    It is going to take a lot of reprogramming I think but he did stay and it was nice.  It sent a big message to his mother too, who has been telling him to leave me    

We had one little uncomfortable moment, I needed to share that I was hurting at one point and he responded that I do have a choice and that I can leave.  It feels like he really trivialises it, he says its an easy decision for me and it would be harder for him as he wouldn't have a choice if the tables were turned because he has children.  Like my choice to either have a husband or a family is easier, no it's a sh!t choice and it's a damn sight harder  

We've come to conclusions on lots of our issues now.  He can't promise to go through with adoption and I can't promise to stay if he says no.  The only thing that we get nowhere on is that he won't guarantee that he will be there for me if another dire emergency happens in my life and it's a children weekend.  He says he'll try but he can't definitely say yes because he will have to evaluate how important it really is and whether it really is serious enough that he has to miss a weekend with the kids.  I've asked him to discuss this in his therapy session because we are getting nowhere on it and it has become the most important issue for me, he has evaluated in the past and will always choose the kids even if I was in a terrible accident I think.  It makes me feel very sick and shaky.  

Therapy session number 2 for me today


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## Vickytick

Thanks for the welcome ladies. I do feel bad as I have a baby but the same issues crop up. The arrival of your own child doesn't make it all go away. I only wish that my ss was a lovely child then I think it would all be v different.

*Molly* your dh needs to be sympathetic to you and your feelings. My dh always put me first if it was IVF, test weekend or we had another mc. He even, upon my request, changed weekends my lo was born as I wanted time just me and my family. I understand their children are important but so are you otherwise why did he get remarried. Personally I don't buy into the whole children come first philosophy and if dh adopted that we wouldn't be together. I hope that you can work through this but he does need to compromise more.

Xx


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## Molly99

Thank you Vicky, my counsellor said exactly the same thing.  It's difficult to believe that any separated dad wouldn't behave the same at the moment but I know that this isn't right or normal.  It's just how to get DH to see it in the same way!

We can't love everyone and some people we just don't get on with.  Is that the case with your SS or is it behaviour related?  I've got to say that both my SD and SS have been enormously challenging, particularly when they were younger.  It wasn't that they were particularly awful but just that they did things that I wouldn't want a child of mine to do.... and OMG.... the tantrums!!  xx


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## MissMayhem

Hi everyone. Molly welcome back, it's good to hear from you. Been thinking of you so is good to hear you're still hanging in there. I can't begin to imagine how difficult this weekend would have been for you. Sending you   as always.

Vickytick I think it's kind of understandable that you want time with your DD. I wonder whether your SS mother makes it even harder for you accepting him. I think it can be really hard sometimes not to project our feelings about the parents onto the kids, is one of the most uncomfortable aspects of step-parenting even if IF is not an issue. In fact, I'd say that this can be a struggle even within birth families. My SD is very much like her mother in attitude sometimes, as can only be expected, but sometimes it drives me absolutely insane! Your SS mother sounds a little like my SD's mother, she's desperate to get inside our house, did in the last place we lived after some emergency she had to come to our hous for. DH joked it was like a bad dream as he'd dozed off on the sofa only to wake and have her in his line of vision wanting to be 'friends'!   I know parents getting on is good for the kids but I've had to try and explain to SD that people are usually separated for a reason. Her mother uses drugs, doesn't work and is one of life's spongers. Yet I have to listen on a weekly basis to SD lament that they live in 'poverty' when I know that her mother's on hols or out living it up. We found out a few years back that SD didn't even have a mattress on her bed as she 'couldn't afford' the £50 it would take to get one, she can afford £40 a week for cigarettes though!   Needless to say, we footed the bill. She tells SD that I've left it too late to have children, huge assumption as I even TX with my ex years ago. She tells her she won't have as much attention so whilst waiting for IVF I had SD tell me and everyone who would listen that she didn't want me to have a baby (very hard to reconcile that with prioritising her when I'd been waiting for years and had just had a BFN!) SD mother even turned up at our wedding after explicitly being told she wasn't invited and complained that she didn't get to see DH! She'd been invited to the house I left from to come and see her daughter as a bridesmaid but declined that only to turn up at our reception a few hours later. The list is endless with her, yet she's the very person I have to defend every time she hurts or disappoints her own daughter.......again!  

I managed to hold it together (in snippets) over the weekend (ashamed to say I did snap at SD and DH a few times) but all in all it's been a real sh*t day for me. Pregnant work colleague who knows all about my situation proceeded to run all her baby names by me today, and complain, again, about how hard it is being pregnant 'so old'. Rub it in why don't you eh!! More conversations about pregnant heroin addicts/alcoholics. And feeling totally alone. Lost my dear uncle last week which was a shock. He and his wife didn't have children through choice but have had a lovely life together. Got me thinking about my marriage and how alone I feel in it. If TX doesn't work for us we'll have to separate as we wouldn't pass an adoption assessment together. I told him all about how low I'm feeling, I think this in itself annoys him as he's fed up of me still being so low, he thinks I should be fine now. His response was to go upstairs and listen to his music all evening. I told him to listen to a Gary Barlow song 'Dying Inside' as it describes how I feel. He didn't bat an eyelid. So much for support! I calmly told him to leave me and be done with it, he doesn't like me or enjoy my company so I really don't see the point in him staying. I told him if I had somewhere else to go (limited because I won't leave my little dog) I'd be gone. 

Sorry to be doom and gloom, just struggling today. Hope you're all ok and sorry for the moan as most doesn't really 'fit' here on this thread but feel I kinda 'know' you girls best.xxx


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## Cranky Angie

Just popping on to say hi and give you ladies a bit of moral support. I have come to the conclusion that men are just totally selfish and men with children are the worst and men with children with other partners are the very very worst. They don't put us first, they don't consider our feelings cos "they just can't handle it", they don't support us when we are most at need even though we do them, and basically they just don't deserve us. The honest, gods truth, only way to deal with them is to stand up to them because they are like bullies who will back down once you stand up to them. I have spent years and years and years of being too soft and too accommodating with my DH over infertility, IVF treatments, the kids, the ex wife, money etc etc. Now I just don't do it any more. In the end I told him I WAS doing IVF because this was MY life and what right did he have to deny ME something that HE had just because it was stressful. Try dealing with infertility and the prospect of never having kids if you think IVF is stressful. I think men can be pathetic sometimes, they so go for the easy option the whole time. I will not be pushed out by him and his kids being a "little unit" togther as has so often happened, like someone else said he married ME so I have rights in this family too. Thank god his kids a pretty much grown up now (most of the time) and we don't hear much of the ex wife but she needed standing up to too, cheeky cow, she used to come into MY house on the weekend to sort out her daughter's hair.  Aaarrgggh!! 

Anyway, don't really know where I'm going with this post except to say you have to stand up for yourselves in all of this girls because even though you want your man to be that strong prince that's going to defend and look after you in all of this quagmire of child tantrums, demanding and unreasonable ex wives etc etc, in my experience they just back down and go for the easy option so you have to stand up to them. The trick is to do it in a controlled, firm no nonsense kind of way cos they seem to respond well to that. They just can't deal with histrionics, tears, temper etc, then then just seem to shut down and walk away leaving you to it!!! 

Good luck everyone, step parenting is the hardest thing EVER (well along with infertility) and together, Phew if you can get through that you are gonna be one strong mama at the end of it. Have a great day everyone.  

Ange xxx


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## Wisp

Hello Everyone!

Hey Molly, so glad to see you back and that you are still fighting for what you want!  It sounds good that you and DH are both in counselling, and great that you're counsellor takes the risk to says things that may feel difficult, the last thing you want is someone who just nods and doesn't say anything. You can always tell them how you feel if it feels too much or just to share your reaction, as they can tell us a lot. I really hope the counselling helps you through all this, it sounds like such a painful time for you. It sounds like your DH just cant bear your feelings or his own and so avoids things.

Must have been hard for you to not see the steppies for a month, I know how much you care about them. I'm sure they will have missed you!

Things with my steppies have been okay. Although it is really hard at times, having read what other men with children can be like, I do feel really lucky. My DH really does think about me, he is very boundaried with the children and their mums. Luckily I don't have any contact with the mums, the thought of them just turning up like you describe Vickytick, would be my worst nightmare! They don't ever come to our house, DH doesn't want them to, it isn't that I have said they can't.  I don't know how I would cope if things were different, it would be 100 times harder, you are all so strong to deal with what you do.

We only had my SD this weekend and I found myself feeling disappointed that my SS wasn't coming as well....a very new feeling for me! It is alwsy up and down though. 

Vicky, I have found myself worrying that if I ever do have a baby, it could make things worse. Sometimes I find myself not even wanting my SD and SS to come along to events with my family. It's really hard to deal with these feelings and they make me feel mean and horrible. Especially as my steppies are so loving towards me. Sorry to hear you're having a hard time.

Gotta dash....x

I had no idea how I would feel about all this, I married my DH and dint realise what I was marrying in to! How naive!


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## Molly99

Yay, Wisp that's amazing to have those feelings about your SS not coming    Slowly, slowly.  I had to chuckle about naivity, my DH used to say that I knew what I was getting myself into a lot.  I don't think that any of us know how hard it will be, how could we possibly  

Cranky, I love your view point!  I have to agree that many men with children are just incredibly blinkered and selfish.  I think that I have had a very similar experience to you.  I echo absolutely everything that you've said, I just wish that I was as strong as you now  

DH said yesterday that he still doesn't know whether he can live with the guilt of me having to live with this hole in my life and the feeling of never being complete.  I just wanted to bash my head against the wall, I've been telling him that it would feel like this since we started so how important it was to just try really hard to make it work.  It's like he's just suddenly realised and now he's not sure whether he can live with the guilt??!  Brilliant, so he has a huge part in making this happen and then he's off because its a little uncomfortable    Feeling a bit           today!

Had a bit of a teary moment when DH was talking about sports day with a colleague today.  The things I'll never experience


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## Wisp

Ahhh Molly I know...we have a new administrator at work and she keeps talking about her children all the time, why wouldn't she, and I think the same, I wont ever experience this or that, so hard.  It's even harder for us step-mums as we live with someone who has these experiences with their own child/children too. I feel it would be so much easier if DH didn't have children and we were struggling to conceive...as I don't think he can fully understand what it feels like, the thought of never having your own baby.


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## Molly99

So true Wisp, I don't think that anyone can understand what it truly feels like and sadly especially our husbands sometimes.
  
I work in a very family orientated team, in fact our work is completely geared around family life they are fab like that but sometimes I just want to scream for them to shut up.  My last team meeting started with a 10 minute conversation about breast feeding, even the two men were joining in.  It just feels like the air is sucked out of the room sometimes, of course they all want to talk about such wonderful things but just going in is like having salt on an open wound when you would give the world to be able to join in.  

I think that my final BFN has just hit me, I've been so caught up in the problems in our marriage that it's just been in the back of my mind.  After saying about sports day, I've just had a horrible snotty nose self pitying sob to DH.  He was such a sweetie but he just doesn't know what to say.  To try though is all I've ever asked from him so that was a sort of happy note to a very sad one.

I agree Wisp, it would be a million times easier to be going through this with someone without existing children.  What a horrible situation, I've just cried because of everyone enjoying sports day and DH has both sports days next week.  I can see it from his point of view too, meeting each other has made the parts of our life that should be most special like mine fields and unbearably sad.  Love isn't supposed to do that is it.

Sigh, I can't believe how hard and gut wrenching this is.  DH was so sweet but he said that people do recover and find meaning to their life ..... that's exactly what people who already have children say.  He knows that he can't last a weekend  and I've got to last a lifetime.

I didn't say that as I was so grateful that he was being supportive but god I want to shout it from the hills.

Pity party central here, I am so sorry xxx


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## MissMayhem

Heya everyone in need of a bit of strength to hold myself together. Me and DH have just had a chat which I think is signalling the end. An inane conversation about something so trivial that he chose not to tell me. To me it's kind of indicative of how he feels about our marriage as he excludes me from so much. Anything he chooses to do is something completely solitary that I'm never included in. Am feeling so unloved, unwanted and unvalued. I've just told him to go and I think come tomorrow he may just do that. That won't be what I want, I want him to help me feel that I AM loved, valued and wanted. He's just said that him doing his bit around the house is his way of showing that (so much for equal opps!) and that I can't have someone who's faithful AND will have fun and do things with me, it's an 'either or' apparently  I'm so sorry for posting here, particularly in light of what you've been through recently molly) but don't want to post on a thread where nobody knows me and can't talk to my family as we've just lost my uncle so everybody's upset already. Have said some things that can't be unsaid and now don't know what I'm going to do.    xx


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## Molly99

Oh MissMayhem, I am so so sorry.  This sounds frighteningly familiar in the solitary approach and needing to feel loved.

I am sending you all the strength that I have to get through today, I know that doesn't help but you all gave me so much support and I know that you kept me going through the darkest bits.

The feeling that you don't want it to end is so painful when they seem to be in their corner and defensively seeing the worst in what you say and seeing your need for love and support as a challenge.  It seems they dig in their trenches and just say 'this is me and how it is and I can't do better'.

They can though lovely, what you are asking (what we both have) is not unfair or unjustified.

I don't know what he is thinking but my DH responded in such the same way, he says all the time that it's fight or flight and I think with women they choose flight.

I don't know what to say, please keep posting here and let us know how you are.  I felt safe here too and you are.

Thinking of you loads xxxx and sending you the biggest hug xxxx


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## Wisp

Molly, that is exactly it, they already have children, so it's easy for them to say 'people find meaning in their lives...' and we may well be able to find meaning, but we may also always feel a deep sense of loss, longing and sadness. I'm so glad we can all relate to each other on this thread.

I was so sad to hear of your BFN, it must be very hard to come to terms with.  It is a grieving process and it will take time. Sending you a big hug  .

Being in your team must be hard at times, I find some conversations just so awkward and always find myself saying things like "oh I imagine that's hard, but I don't know as I don't have children", I find myself adding it in before they can ask or think, what does she know, she doesn't have children!

Missmayhem, so sorry to hear what's going on for you, big hug  . Sounds really hard and I am sorry I don't have anything really helpful to say that could make it better. Being excluded and feeling unloved is terrible, you deserve love, affection and to be the centre of someones world!  Why can't you have someone who is faithful and all the other things, of course you can! Whats the point in being with someone who is faithful (although of course crucial) but nothing else, that's no life, that sounds miserable, as if you should be grateful with just that! I'm sorry to rant, but it sounds so unfair and that's one thing that really gets me going!

Stay strong and think about what you want and need! I'm sorry to ehar about your uncle too.


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## artist_mum

hi ladies

I've been doing a big read to catch up on all these posts since i last came on here.. gosh, it is ALL SO FAMILIAR! And so hard. My heart goes out to you *miss mayhem* - i think like all of us we just get these times when it all seems to be over. Things get said. And as you point out, you can't unsay them. But it isn't always the end, and we all know that it usually carries on, but then i wonder if we are damaged by it and so is it best to leave etc&#8230; Boy is this a tough ride.  Can you get yourself a few days away from him? Get some space? Not always easy i know.

*Molly* and *mayhem* i just wanted to say that you really are still plenty young enough to make it happen. Often in your posts you say 'i will never be a mum' but you know, you still can be, in whatever form it is. There is surrogacy, there is adoption (you would get a baby at your ages) etc. I know that if DH doesn't agree to it, then that puts you in an impossible position. But, being frank here, if he doesn't understand your needs in this, then is he really being fair to you and promising you a future you can live with? It's so tough. I know. I just feel that you are both young enough to still have choices&#8230;

I too have been having real difficulties culminating in a massive row on Monday night. It was quite scary really and we didn't sleep at all, just fighting all night. Work was a nightmare the next day!

I now put arguments into the diary and they are ALWAYS after he's dropped the kids back. He is tired and stressed because I don't get so involved these days because I am, justifiably I think, grieving the end of my IVF hope. To be fair my DP is balanced and helpful HOWEVER.. he too just goes awol when the kids are around and puts their weekends/drop offs at school in front of our relationship - and it is too much for us. I think that perhaps the children just provide an excuse not to face up to my needs at those times. It's an impossible equation - he is off to the kids to do things with them, I feel upset (on this occasion cos he took SD shopping whilst i'm having to work weekends and came home with a mirror they had chosen for MY bathroom!). And instead of chatting it over with me when i'm upset, he can use the fact the children are there to avoid discussing it.

*Molly* I get what you say when you talk of the IVF bfn suddenly hitting you. It's hard to predict which moments it will affect you. But let's face it, watching your partner parent right in front of your eyes only highlights even more that you (I) are facing this dilemma on our own. So a little consideration from them at those times would go a long way!!

Sorry this is so rambly. it just all comes out! Welcome to *vickytick*, congrats on your LO and sorry to hear it isn't all a bed of roses once you get your baby! Like *wisp* i too have suspected it might not be plain sailing once another child arrives. And hi to *crankyangie* (i love your name on here, makes me laugh ) I completely agree with you that men actually will always just go for the easier option. Your post is very insightful. Sometimes I think it's like dog training. You have to work out which reward works best, not over challenge them with emotions/things they don't understand and don't burden them with your own stuff cos they just don't get it!

Stay strong all of you.. it was comforting once again to read this stuff and to know I am not alone in my experience here.

xxx


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## artist_mum

also *crankyangie* I completely get this thing about putting the kids first - i don't think it is helpful. I think it shows them wrongly that they are the most important thing and then they don't see the parental relationship as the most important. WHich is actually not a secure position for them. I've always said to DP that if he puts us first then WE can put the children before US. But it doesn't work if one of the co-parents elevates the child above their partner. It's the wrong signal. I think this is one of the biggest problems with step parenting.

People who do it with their dogs get into all sorts of problems as the dog thinks it is in charge and that is too big a responsibility for a dog! So they get anxious and display it with bad behaviour. Perhaps its the same for kids 

xx


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## cally_y2k

What a fantastic thread to create. 

Personally I have found no 'highs' of being a step parent and wouldn't even consider myself to be one.  My DH has 2 daughters to 2 different women.  One of which when he was 15 (so she is 12 now) and another around 21 (she is 6/7).  I don't see either of them.  

As far as I understand DH tried to get full custody of his eldest daughter when she was first born but failed so the mother moved (with the child) to Scotland where custody laws are apparently slightly different.  She visits about once or twice every couple of years so when she does I try my best to give DH as much freedom as possible so he can spend as much time with her as he can.  It just so happens that we have been TTC for 3 years and I recently had my second m/c which is thought to be a Molar Pregnancy (so basically tumours which we don't know if they're cancerous or not for 4 more weeks) and this mother with her now 3 children to 3 different men (the third she doesn't know who it is) has turned up at my mother in laws house to stay for a while.  The timing couldn't be worse.  Not only are we going through this physical and emotional trauma, we have just moved house 5 days ago and DH is having to work 12 hour shifts to make up for the time he had off while I was is hospital etc.  It really set me back and I had to go back onto the sedatives I was prescribed and the crap sleeping pills that don't actually do anything.

As for the second child, I've not had any problems with her mother at all really.  DH has and she shouts at him a lot and still controls him, it's like he is petrified of her!  It is very hard to watch/hear from the next room.  This little girls is severely disabled due to the mother catching CMV during early pregnancy.  She is unable to eat, use the loo, move - basically do anything (I say that in the most polite way possible).  The latest problems with her are that DH moved into my appartment with me and she slept over a couple of nights with a special bed cot side thing that the mother lent us, but it soon became apparent that the appartment was not appropraite for her needs.  It was on the 3rd floor (no lift) with a teeny bathroom and only 1 room downstairs, when she layed on the floor her head would touch one wall and her feet the other and she kept banging herself because of her involuntary movements.  DH brought this up with the mother who didn't take it well.  DH suggested that he get insured on the car that the government have provided for the child to fit her wheelchair etc in (he doesn't have a car, in fact he has nothing sue to errors being made by child maintenance he gets over 40% of his wages taken off him) so that he/we could take her out for days at the beach or swimming or something.  The mother did not agree to this suggestion.  Therefore if DH wants to see this child he has to get 3 buses to her mothers house and visit there.  That dwindled out pretty quickly due to the hostile relasionship that they have (DH tells me she was physically abusive to him when they were together).

I feel like my mother in law favors these 2 ex's over me because they have children and I don't.  She sees these children more than DH does.

I find it extremely difficult to deal with the fact that my DH will never understand my desperation for children because he had one when he was a child himself.  He is lovely and extremely supportive and says he is desperate to have a family with me but it can never be the same when he has experienced scans, looking after pregnant women, watching labour, night feeds, fussy families etc. I am so sad that when/if it happens for me it won't be as exciting and special for him because he's already done it twice.


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## artist_mum

so sorry to read of your situation *cally* that's very tough on both of you. It is frustrating to have these ex's who don't respect the life and issues that you and your DP have. It sounds as if your DP tries really hard to do the right thing and yet so often these men just get used for the financial assistance without being given the chance to parent their own child themselves. And as for us step mums (i use the term broadly to include any children of our DPs) it is as if our own life is completely dis-respected.

I hope that your results in 4 weeks time will be OK and that you and he can move on together. Yes, he has had children before but he is with you now and I think you have to trust that the child you and he create together will be every bit, if not more, special to him. Particularly as he is going for it with you in a new and healthy relationship in which HE is making the choice to do it.

best of luck, stay strong and yes, this thread is a live-saver.. showing us all that we are not alone. It's a hard place to be but with time and patience you can make a family with him that endures.

Big  

xx


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## Molly99

Yay, you found us Cally xxx. Your situation sounds like such a nightmare at the moment lovely.  I find all of this so unbearably hard but taking on a steppie with serious disabilities would be incredibly difficult in normal circumstances never mind with everything else that you have on.  You are a strong woman  

I feel your frustration and pain that your DH doesn't understand your desperation for a family.  There are some lucky ones, I'm sure, but I think that the vast majority of us here are in exactly the same situation.  I know that I am.

As for mother in laws, Blimey I have only had bad experiences.  I think that they will always see us as a challenge to their nothing must change, you must blend in and never impact on your DH or the kids attitude.  They can be incredibly poor role models and reinforce the opinion that our DH's must put the kids before everyone and their marriage no matter how dire the emergency.  Perhaps it's just me and my terrible experience with my MIL but I think that this is also pretty common and again poorly managed by our DH's.

Artist, yet again you are so right.  It isn't a secure thing for the kids, they need to know that they are a huge part of life and a family but they are just part of it.  I've always tried to get DH to imagine how he would feel if my lovely step daughter came to him in years to come and describe her partner treating her in the same way as DH has done me and us.  Of course, it just gets his back up but he would be fuming and so upset.  If he wouldn't want it for her then I find it very hard that he thinks it's ok for me.

I love what you said about if DH puts us first that we can put the children before us.  That is just so true, eloquent and well put.  I am going to remember that xx

How is everyone? Xxxx


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## A J

Hi ladies,

I hope you don't mind me dropping back in. I did post quite a while back but could really do with some support right now.
I know its harsh but I hate DH's ex and the children for how they keep coming between our marriage, or actually the subtle ways it happens.
DH is so hung up about his children and the lack of contact he has with them that he is forever moping around, upset etc or angry and takes it out on me. Its not by fault neither of his children seem to want to bother with him ATM...actually, secretly I'm glad. I used to be sick of him going to pick his youngest up every week and seeing his ex etc but since his son has decided that at 11 years old he would prefer to go out with his mates on Saturdays than see his father that's not happening. So now I get DH moping around with me being second best to spend time with.
He has started smoking which has ****** me off as he 'can't cope' with things. 

To add to it all ATM it looks like I am about to m/c. My pregnancy is just over 9 weeks but they have failed to see a yolk sac, fetal pole or heartbeat after 4 scans. As the gestational sac is still growing and hcg has increased they are scanning me again on Thursday. I feel so low with what is happening with me and all DH seems to be concerned about is what is happening with his children.
Sick to death of it all, being second best which has gone on for years. At the moment I really feel like upping and leaving- or telling him to go. I'm sure his mother would have him.
We have a holiday to Italy booked at the beginning of the school holidays which was his idea and I really don't want to go. 
Sorry to be such a misery here.....but I know you ladies are the only ones who understand.

AJ xx


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## Molly99

Hi AJ, welcome back (sorry you find yourself here again)  

Firstly, I am so so sorry for how you're feeling.  I didn't get as far as 9 weeks but I know a little of the heartbreak of going for that scan and finding nothing.  I am keeping absolutely everything crossed for you that little AJ is just hiding and that Thursday comes quickly and you get some answers.  The waiting must be so awful lovely xx

I think that in these times of high stress, it really highlights how incredibly complicated and difficult our lives in step families are.  It highlights our differences and disparities (hugely in our partners favour) and it gives us a focus in a crazy world of feeling completely and utterly out of control of everything else.  At this point, the one person that we need more than anyone else in the world is our partner, and that seems to be the point that the focus almost completely on their existing children.  I think it's a coping mechanism but they just can't see how it isolates us when we just need to clamp down as a couple and focus on this one most important thing happening in our life.  My DH absorbed almost completely into his children throughout our whole treatment and especially during the 2WW and our miscarriage.

My DH responds in almost exactly the same way as yours, he falls into depression when he can't see them.  I really, really feel for him as it must be so difficult but when this is on important days for us (like scans, transfer etc) it gets too much.  It's not that we don't get it, it's just that sometimes (and on really important days) they need to consider us and accept that their life isn't perfect.

My DH also has drinking and smoking as his coping mechanisms.  I think that I've found this harder than his moping.  There are a million different reasons why none of our cycles worked or our miscarriage, but drinking, smoking and stress were things that we could do something about.  That grates, I think that it will always be with me.  I really feel for you x

You can't see beyond each day at the moment.  Leaving just may be the best option for you but having been there, threatened to leave, it get as black and awful as it could possibly be and then DH ask me for a divorce, I would really just say to breath out for just a little while.  I completely lashed out after my final BFN and DH not being there physically or emotionally, a lot of it he deserved but some I was just hurting so badly and so frustrated that he couldn't be there for me and focussed on his children instead.  I don't know where it will lead us now, I know that I want to be with him but I know that things have to radically change too.  It takes a huge amount of time and patience to even figure out what you really want amongst all of the chaos going on around you.  

Take a step back for a little while, cut him out if you have to.  It's so easy to focus on the relationship falling apart but you have a bigger priority right now, your HCG is still increasing lovely, so there may just be a smidgen of hope to hang onto.

Sending you the biggest of   keep talking to us here, as we really do understand what it is like and talking is the most vital part of this, especially when we find that we can't talk to our partners xx


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## MissMayhem

Hi everyone, thanks for all your messages of support, as usual.  Sorry I've gone AWOL for a while, I've been touching in and reading most of your updates but haven't felt in a good enough place to respond to anyone so apologies for that.

Me and DH managed to weather the storm, not quite sure how but we managed it.  Kind of feel stupid then for posting and saying that that's it but guess that's part of the whole rollercoaster.  

He's still here anyway and is trying his best to be supportive.  He even made me smile earlier today by absolutely 'getting' how I was feeling (at work listening to pg woman moaning about her pregnancy and her other children, making me VERY angry!  ) Everything seeming a bit too hard to bear at the minute as AF is en route, again.  Had been clinging to hope against hope that it may happen for us this month.  Been seeing the Integrated Therapist for months and months and following his regime, and he reckons there's no physical reason that we're not getting pg now.  This month we went all out around ovulation, before and after too just in case but it was all for nothing.  Worse still is my cycle is becoming more erratic, when he says it should now be falling to 28 days because of everything that we're doing, this makes me worry more that the menopause is on its way.

We've booked in to an Open Day in CREATE in Bristol on the weekend.  Hoping that we'll be able to go as it will mean SD's mother actually looking after her while we go, usually would ask my mother to save the trouble but she's burying her brother the day before so don't really think it's appropriate to ask her to babysit.  Am going to try to breathe and hope that her mother has a little humanity and will realise that we can't take SD with us to the hospital.  I'll keep breathing though and won't hold my breath as there may well be some drama around this.  God forbid anything gets in way of her needs and her social life, even her own daughter.  Makes me so angry!  

Sorry for being so doom and gloom again, am really struggling this past week or so.  I'm just feeling angry ALL the time.  Feel like just giving up on everything and stopping TX but know that I can't even begin to face a future if children of my own are not part of it.

Huge       to you all, I know that you're all going through it too and some are in a much worse position than me, I do appreciate that, it just becomes all consuming sometimes.  I can't even analyse things anymore, I'm just so Goddamn ANGRY, at the world it feels!  Can't respond to all of you individually as in work and trying to keep my screen small so colleague doesn't read my whole business.  But love and luck to you all.xxx


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## Molly99

So glad to hear from you MissMayhem, I've been thinking about you a lot.  Reading your posts, it's like we've morphed into each other, our situations are strikingly similar, though perhaps I just say that because it makes me feel a little less alone  

I'm so glad that you're weathering the storm, I know that it's an incredibly hard thing to do.  You aren't remotely stupid for posting, it's impossible not to believe the worst is happening with what we're going through.  

Good luck with Create, I had all of my cycles with them.  Although the travel was very tricky for us (we live over 5 hours away), I really liked their approach.  Although I can't say for certain, having not tried anything but the mild cycle, I still think that it was the right one for me and my age.  The Bristol satellite clinic is wonderful if you're closer to that, really chilled with lots of eclectic loveliness around it for just such a different experience.

We had to get 'permission' from DH's ex to attend together.  I wish that we hadn't bothered and I'd just gone myself to be honest.

The anger is the thing that I've struggled most with.  I can see why my poor DH still isn't 100% about whether he wants to stay, I just can't control it sometimes.  I've never been an angry person, it scares me who I've turned into sometimes.  

Something that I can recommend though is Jody Day's Rocking the Life Unexpected.  I'm not too far in yet, but it is part of my trying to believe that I still have a life plan now.  It makes me really teary and a little angry, it's the only book that I have ever read that includes what a potential childless life may look like for step mothers too.  It talks about the stages of grief and how anger is a really important part, it's part of the healing.  I think that it's probably more cathartic if it's positive anger rather than the stuff we're probably venting but it's all processing pain and healing    

I did really well just then.  DH wants to go to a family cricket day on Sunday and asked me how I felt.  I said that it is what it is.  I didn't say it's cricket and fun for families, what do you think... or I won't tell you what I feel about you planning your family life until we can talk about adoption and my future family life....

Only last week, I would have said it all.  I still think it mind you


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## A J

Molly99 thank you so much for taking time to reply. I appreciate it so much.

Yesterday things did get to a head when I braved it and told him exactly what I thought of him. I walked away for a few hours and he stayed at his mothers but today we have talked and realise we do both love each other and that this whole IF journey has come between us....is it beyond repair? I hope not as I can only keep clinging on for so long, doing the same thing and expecting different results ( they diagnose insanity that way).
Is my desire to have children worth ruining a relationship which most of the time is good? The only bad times have been when his children have been involved. If I knew it was going to have been this difficult then I certainly wouldn't have got into it.....

Ladies...we deserve medals  

AJ xxx


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## MissMayhem

Molly I know what you mean about us morphing! I'm very reassured by that thought as you're often so able to offer me calmness amidst my madness, all of you do here, I worry for you though if I'm your comparison!!   AJ I love your little anecdote about insanity diagnosis, it so feels like that at times doesn't it. 

I read your post again AJ, I couldn't properly read or post earlier as I have a colleague who would have quite happily risked a neck injury to get a glimpse of what I was reading/writing. She's the type who's single yet keeps commenting 'when I have a baby', 'when I have a baby'; takes it for granted that it will be that easy for her. I guess we all did though at some point, I know I did. I just wanted to send you a   AJ, I can't begin to imagine your pain at the minute. So many different emotions going on for you, I guess you want to cling to hope and the other side of you wants to prepare yourself for the worst (if you can ever truly prepare). I pray that it's good news for you, I really do.

I wanted to say also that I'm sorry you feel like a second best option. I know many of us feel this way but I'm sure it's not the case. My own stepfather (AMAZING man and parent) struggled himself years ago when his daughters started to snub him. He told me not so long back that the guilt at not being around to see them every day always stayed and was hard to balance. BUT, he and my mother didn't have infertility to deal with on top of that. Step parenting is tough at the best of times. You only have to look at us here, caring, intellgent women reduced to the depths of despair at the harshness of our situations. 

I guess only you can decide about what you do about your desire to have children. It's such a personal thing. I wish sometimes that it didn't mean so much to me as it really is driving me crazy (most of today I could have put my career in jeopardy as I was so close, too many times, to just opening my mouth to all and sundry), I know for me my need to be a mother is so strong it surpasses anything else. I think if I can't have a child of my own and DH isn't up for adoption (which we tentatively discussed earlier for the fourth time  but are no closer to making a decision) I will probably have to go it alone. Not a decision I want to make but I can't sacrifice my opportunity to be a mother.

You have to make whichever decision is right for you personally AJ. I think there are a lot of us grappling with what we do next at the minute. Right now may not be the best time for you to make decisions like this though, especially with everything that's going on for you right now. I guess your DH's reaction to his lack of contact with his children shows how good a father he is but I hope for your sake that he is able to step outside his own stuff for a minute and really see what's going on for you now. 

I too wonder sometimes if I would've got into the step parenting if I'd known how hard it would be. My answer generally would be yes, but infertility in the middle of that? That's what complicates step parenting to the point of insanity in my opinion. On its own infertility is simply unbearable. But we have the double whammy, we have two of the toughest things to deal with: other people's kids and the pain of  not (yet) having our own. I'm with you, medals all round and even then people who don't know how hard this is would STILL underestimate it! 

Good luck for Thursday AJ and love to you all. (Apologies if message is disjointed, can hardly see screen on phone!)xxx


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## A J

MissMayhe..thank you for your reply.

You really are the most amazingly supportive ladies on here.
Adoption was mentioned and this is actually sparking a lot of our arguments. I know we shouldn't have but DH and I have been on the adoption path for a couple of months at the same time as me having more fertility cycles. It took him approx 2 years to come to the point of giving it a go, yet I'm still not prepared to give up my fight to give birth until the bitter end.  I have had 2 pregnancies since starting the adoption process and have had to keep it all quiet (which I always do anyway) but when you are being questioned by a social worker its hard to try and keep it all separate. 
There was one week when I worked all day Friday, flew to Athens for an embryo transfer on the Sat morning and back to the UK Sat night (without DH as I'm not paying for his trip too- his ex wife gets all his spare money). Paper work for adoption on the Sunday and Social worker around after work on Mon. There have been lots more equally nutty incidences but I won't bore you!!!

Anyway, the bottom line is HD can't handle it all. I understand he can't cope with the deceit as we have said that our fertility journey ended last year in order to get accepted but its the issues around his children he struggles with and I find so, so difficult.
His ex wife was visited by social worker last week...as if it has anything to do with her but she must have said something negative as our referees are going to be questioned to substantiate the rubbish she must have said. Most of our sessions are taken up talking about his kids and it drives me nuts.
He has said that he doesn't think he wants to continue and I know its because of all the background baggage...its so unfair!

I too would do this alone. My last I've cycle was with donor egg and donor sperm...so, no man involved there (except for the obvious anonymous one)...also there is a lady I met on the adoption course who is doing it alone after a failed relationship due to the strains of ivf. I know its possible...yet I still love him.  
I'm not getting any younger and really have to take stock and decide what I want in life right now A million dollar question which I just can't seem to be able to answer.

Hopefully after my scan I can at least have closure on this chapter as ATM it is so, so difficult.

Thank you all so much for being here...love and hugs

AJ xx


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## MissMayhem

God AJ, that is an awful lot to juggle. You're doing well to only have needed to dip in here now! I would never judge you for secretly doing the IVF, fair play to you for being able to keep your emotions in check for a start, it's a huge balancing act and puts a lot of pressure on you. I'm tempted to do it myself but don't know if I'd cope with the strain to be honest. Sometimes I get why they want us to have finished treatment, at other times it just annoys me big time. Yes we all understand the emotional side of it but what about 'real' life. What if, God forbid, we mc after natural BFPs, does that mean you have to have an allotted time to grieve before you can try again?! And these arbitrary timescales! With us you have to wait six months so technically I'm now 'fine' to adopt. Am I over the pain of failed IVF? No! Does my experience mean I wouldn't be able to love and prioritise an adopted child now? Again, no!

And don't get me started on the whole ex thing! How ON EARTH should ex partners get to sit in judgement over our right to have children??!! God that makes me so angry! What if your ex was abusive and/or controlling? Playing right into their hands there! My SD mother is still bitter that DH left when she was a baby, she's bitter that he never married her, she is an irresponsible freeloader and that's putting it nicely. Yet she gets to feed into decisions about MY future! I dread to think of it. If we go for this my lie may have to be that me and DH split as I couldn't have her part of our process. As anticipated she's already throwing a tantrum about the weekend as she has 'plans'. As she does, like clockwork, every single week and remains totally uncontactable the moment we take over. Fair enough sometimes but when it's your daughter's birthday or Christmas and she wants to say 'hi' you answer your phone or if she's excited and wants to come back home early those days you don't upset her by saying no and if she breaks her arm and her school try to contact you, again, you answer your phone! DH once had to take emergency leave from work to collect SD from school and take her to hospital as nobody could get hold of her mother, she doesn't work and can walk to the school in five minutes. Hospital was a ten minute car journey for her but it still took her three and a half hours to turn up once DH finally got hold of her. I hate her. She doesn't deserve to be a mother so how the hell should her opinion be sought on how I parent? Grrrr!! I dread to think of what your DH's ex has said AJ. Do you know what they ask them? Am so worried about that part, don't think my DH would cope with it either. 

It feels sometimes as if the powers that be consult to think what could possibly make things worse for couples in our position and think 'oh yeah, let's ask the ex!' Forgetting, it seems, that they're often exes for a reason! Wonderful logic!

Anyway, let's calm down and get some positivity back to send to you tor Thursday!   Everything crossed for you. Love to y'all ladies  xxx


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## Wisp

Hi All,

Just wanted to drop in and say hi...sorry to hear that lots of you are having a hard time at the moment, take care of yourselves  .  I have been there (still am at times!!) and it is so very tough sometimes, being a step-mum with infertility issues feel so cruel, being a step-mum is challenging enough!

AJ I just read your post about the Adoption SW going to see your Dh's ex!! I would hate that...I'm sure if that happened to us Dh's ex's would have a field day making horrible stuff up, I don't trust them at all. Hope it doesn't cause problems for you.

Last weekend my SS Mum said he had a party to go to and my DH talked to him and he said he wanted to go, so my husband agreed with him that he would miss the weekend with us. DH then rang his son on the Saturday morning and it turned out the party had been cancelled and he and his mum were on their way somewhere else, this was early in the morning, but she did not tell us and he could of come for the weekend, or had the choice to come or not. I hate the game playing they do at times.  We try and deal with it by not playing any games ourselves and being really consistent with all the weekends we have them, the only time during the year we rearrange or miss a weekend is when we go away on a summer holiday.

At the moment things have been good (touch wood), I have been feeling better about the children coming to stay, it feels weird when we have one and not the other, like this weekend my SD won't be coming as she has something else she wants to go to.

I have been feeling strangely calm about the idea of not having a baby myself now.  I know I don't want to go through treatment and I know that I don't want to adopt either, so if it doesn't happen naturally it isn't going to happen for me and DH. I am still going to be referred to our new local hospital to see about a Laparoscopy, as my pre-af spotting could potentially be cause by undiagnosed enod.....that's my thought but who knows!?!

Best wishes to you all!


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## Molly99

Wow Wisp, you've found your zen   that's amazing news!  It's an incredible place to be when you start to get clarity on what you want and what you're prepared to do to get there.  I hope that you get your appointment soon xx

AJ ....   good grief you are a strong woman!  It must be so intense sometimes for you.  I've often thought about whether the adoption authority would know if & when I'd had IVF, it sort of doesn't matter because of where DH and I are but I do think about it.  I did speak to one lovely adoption place about my fears of involving the ex and what the children will think, they were lovely about it and said that they are very experienced in exes but I worry very much.  It only takes one tiny little worry to set off social services and ruin our chances and, like most of us, DH's ex has proven that she'll do anything.  I think about it all of the time.

Well, we've had some massive rollercoaster peaks and troughs but we're starting to pull out of it I think....  I had my 3rd counselling today, which was really hard, hopefully it's helping somehow as I'm not enjoying it    I'm struggling with the lack of life plan now, I'm such a planner and now I have nothing to plan for.  I can't just go cold turkey so I'm planning a summer holiday now - the ex took 3 weeks to think about whether she'd approve our dates or not but we finally got lift off today    

Loads of love to you all xxx


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## Wisp

Hey Molly, great news that you can plan a holiday! You deserve one!  We have ours booked for this year and we are already looking at one for next year...a remote villa for two on a greek island with it's own pool! Sounds like heaven, wish I found it before and we were going this year, but its fully booked already!

I do feel pretty zen right now about the fertility stuff, but maybe it's a huge defence, I don't know!


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## Molly99

Oo Wisp, that sounds utterly amazing    I am there already in fact!

I'm looking at Greece too, I really want to go to Kefalonia but it seems so pricey still.  It's tough trying to find somewhere that there's enough for the kids but it's actually somewhere I want to go too    I've also been thinking of the quieter bits of Zante and Skiathos.  Have any of you been there before or have any recommendations  I'm getting really OCD about it but I still haven't found anywhere (I have taste way outside of my budget!).

I think that I've just ruined a few really lovely days with DH.  It's our weekend and the ex just text him to say she's organised something for SD to do until late tonight.  It's wonderful that she has something on and it's hard for her when they fall on our weekends but it niggles so much to have our time arranged for us.  DH now has to wait around his old home village all evening and now they won't be back until around 9:30, as we live 1:30 hours away.

That combined with next week being packed for DH with plays and sports days.  I am so jealous of him, the fact that she'll be the only mother of his children forever and lots of even more bad news about vasectomies on the news.  I'm trying so hard but it all hurts  

I need your zen Wisp, mine seems to only last when there's no reminders xx


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## MissMayhem

Well we went to CREATE for an open day today girls and my mind is all over the place now. Would love to give it a go but am concerned not just about the hour or so drive twice daily for scans but, more importantly, for the trek to London. Decisions decisions. Am just thinking about the stress of it all. And, again, what if it falls on a weekend. It was hard enough today with the ex having her tantrum. I nearly bit SD's head off this morning as she jumped in the shower (she's a teenager, she's in there a lonnnnng time!) so neither of us could go get ready and ended up running late so my anxiety levels were already through the roof! 

The main good thing about today though was the Consultant there stressing how difficult conventional IVF is on us physically, psychologically and emotionally. She said over the course of her work she's seen bright, strong, intelligent women be reduced to breakdowns due to the strain of treatment. Think DH actually listened as it was someone who was clearly strong and intelligent herself, not to mention passionate. He was the most animated I've seen him following it despite him not talking to me when we first arrived after the histrionics of the morning!  

Hope you're ok after Thursday AJ, been thinkinh of you. Hope everyone's ok and that you found some of wisps zen molly, share it about if you do!!  xx


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## Cranky Angie

Sorry guys I seem to have been out of touch and now lost the thread (pardon the pun). Miss M I thought your comment about the effects of IVF that the consultant gave you are so true. Even now sitting here with my LO in my arms it's so hard to come to terms with it all. The pain and the heartache of it all leave such a mark on you, you are constantly worried that something will go wrong and you still somehow feel the pain of infertility knowing if you ever wanted another you would have to go through all that pain and heartache again whereas around you on the ward the other ladies just seem to be popping them out. 

Sorry no personals, feel so tired, going to sleep and catch up properly soon, 
Ange xx


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## Molly99

Morning all, hope that you had good weekends.

MissMayhem, I'm glad that your appointment went well.  I found the travel very challenging and hugely expensive but we went purely due to their approach really.  Our dates fell on every children weekend,  I think that you can pretty much guarantee that they will just to add a little extra chaos and stress  

Cranky, that's a lovely image of you and your little one xx

We had an on / off disasterous / good weekend here.  Peppered with lots of sadness about SS having lots of 'firsts' and milestones.  I feel like such a monster sometimes, I don't know why I can't just be pleased for him and share DH's pride.  I have to spoil it all by getting sad because I won't have firsts with my own child.  It's sports day and play week for DH now, yet more opportunities for me to bring it all back to me, sigh.

Theme for therapy this week - jealousy  .


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## Wisp

Hi All,

Molly - I have been to Kefalonia a couple of times and once to Skiathos and really liked them both, I love Greece! I have always stayed in simple accommodation, Pythos Apartments once in Kefalonia, can't remember the names of the others. Pythos was nice, very quiet, as a bit off the beaten track, may not be so good for children, although my niece was with us, who was 6/7 at the time and she loved the pool, so was in it all day! Always good to hire a car and go and see the sights!

I don't know where this zen has come from, but I feel content with things at the moment! I hear what you all say about IVF and I just feel I can't/don't want to put myself through that stress and have accepted that it may mean we don't have a baby.  Maybe this will change, I don't know, but for now I'm enjoying the calm and life again. Don't get me wrong I still get the pangs when I see a baby or think about what DH and I won't experience together, but I try to just feel the feeling and let it pass.

Jealousy is so hard Molly, it's what I have struggled with the most. Taking it to therapy sounds like a good way forward. We just had my SS this weekend, so it felt very quiet, as he entertains himself a lot! We spent all of Saturday gardening, which I love so that was nice.

Miss M - Good luck with your decision making, it must be hard, but good to hear from a very understanding Consultant!


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## MissMayhem

Thanks everyone, really struggling again today.  Struggled since our appointment on the weekend I think, the thought of it starting all over again, too scary to contemplate at the minute, all the what ifs.  DH can just compartmentalise things and is on that they've given us a better prognosis than the NHS so for him it's just a formality now, he really believes that it will happen.  I know that I have to keep positive but have to balance this with my past experiences and the devastation I felt when it didn't work.  

Just had my boss pull me up about my time-keeping in work as I'm getting later and later coming in.  Just can't face it.  Hearing my colleague go on and on about baby names, birth weights of her other children, her due date, people saying how lovely her bump is, congratulating her, questioning her.  I want to punch her.  And I love her, so that's a hard thing to admit.

Really having a bad few weeks.   Am with you on the self-pity train Molly, I want to get off at the next stop but I really don't know how.  Wish I could be more like you Wisp.  Cranky, thank you for your words.  It's so lovely to hear you speak of your LO, mad how easy it is to hear people here speak about their children and pregnancies, there's no jealousy involved when you have an idea of what people have had to go through to achieve it.  It makes me cry, but in a good way, as I smile at the same time.  Looked at your signature, is your LO like brand new??!  Are you in hospital now or just out?  Unless I've missed something it looks like this is really recent for you.  Am so happy for you, but feel your pain also.  But, ultimately, people like you give me a little bit of much-needed hope.  

I think I need a different career; can't avoid babies and issues around pregnancy and parenting when you're a parenting worker! 

A holiday sounds great girls.  I've decided that I WILL also be going this year, September probably.  And if we can't afford it, I will be getting a 0% credit card to make sure we can!  Irresponsible but I need a break, we both do I think.

Molly I love Greece too, haven't been to Kefalonia as usually go on a budget and most of the nice places there are above mine.  I've been to Argassi in Zakynthos a few times, loved it there althought it's mostly pool-based as there's not much of a beach there.  Haven't been since 2007 so not sure what it's like now; avoid Laganas (which unfortunately is where the lovely beach is!) especially during peak season as that's the crazy resort for the youngsters, the Ayia Napa of Zante!  Let us know where you decide.  We used to do the boat trip around the island which also takes you to Smuggler's Cove (the popular ship wreck bay that's always on Zante's promo photos), it's a lovely day out.  We also took a whole day one year to go over to Athens and visit the Acropolis too, tiring day but fantastic.  xx


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## A J

MissMayhem...sending you a massive hug   some days are just unbearable xxx

I have had a nightmare day but almost through it...haven't killed, abused or threatened anyone (yet) so not doing too bad I guess. And as my mother used to say ' Tomorrow is another day'....roll on!!!

AJ xx


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## MissMayhem

Thank you so much AJ, brought a smile to my face. Sorry only now responding but only just saw your message. Hope you managed to get through your tough day too. Here's to listening to your mother!  xx


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## MissMayhem

We're all very quiet here lately ladies! How's everyone doing?!?xx


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## Cranky Angie

Hi Miss M I'm fine, how's everyone else doing? 
You guys aren't actually going to believe this, but the steppies aren't over for the summer madness like they usually are taking over the house, the bathroom, MY DH ..... And guess what I'm kind of missing them. The house seems way too quiet and a bit, even, boring?? God I never thought I would think that.  Blow me down. 

Ange xxx


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## Molly99

Hellooo from work! Urgh, I would rather not be in a stuffy office today, concentration failure,  all I want to do is book our holiday. 

All is ok with me, moments of madness and sadness but lots of lovely ones too.  I think we'd both forgotten what those were like  

It hits you at the strangest times doesn't it cranky!!

Lots of love to you all,  any news with any of you?  Xx


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## artist_mum

hi everyone

i do read now and again but all seems so busy..! End of school term (i have been a teachers assistant) so all go. The steppies are coming for a week in July and another in August. Better prepared this year - i am going away with a girlfriend for a 3 day break whilst DP has the kids then he goes away for 3 days with them then we have a couple of days altogether and a week together in August. Like you guys, in a strange way, I am looking forward to having them! Who'd have thought?!

we are not sure on our next steps for our own baby journey. Still pondering after taking 3 months out to get over our failed last go. We're having a week away together and we will see what we think after that.

I sympathise with *Molly* on the hot weather/office scenario - not a good combo! But hey, nearly holiday time - hope you get away or at least some quality time off.

*angie* hah! It's weird isn't it, this coming and going. Sometimes it's a p in the a, at other times.. well yes, you do kind of miss them 

*Wisp* i hope the Zen is still there in your world, love the sound of some gardening, and yes, I know exactly what you mean about putting yourself through the stress of trying - we just don't know right now whether to go for it or like you say, just be at peace with what we have.

credit card holidays.. *miss mayhem* i know where you're at!!!! And you most definitely would not be the first to do that one 

hi to *AJ*, *cally*and anyone else reading. 
Wishing you all a really good summer

Hugs to all
xxx


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## Molly99

Hello lovely ladies, how are you all.

On the plus side with me, we've just had a full week of wonderfulness.  A whole week! I can't tell you how blissful that was.  Quite possibly our first since all this began  

On the down side, after a perfect day, our wonderfulness ended with a crashing dose of reality.  We were sat down for a barbeque and out of the blue (again), my step son just suddenly wanted to talk about when he was born, his mum's pregnancy with him, DH picking baby names etc etc.  It was like a dagger and now I feel so down again and we're rowing.

I'm so angry, when does it ever go away  

DH reacted in the usual defensive pretend it never happened way yet again, which always makes us row.  He won't recognise that ss wants to talk about his birth every weekend but he does.

At 12, and with what we're trying to deal with, do you think that this is too young for DH to talk to him gently about what's appropriate to talk about?  I want him to now and to take him off for a little while to talk about all the lovely stuff about when he was born ... privately.  DH says he's too young, he doesn't want to talk about it or just says they'll talk about it later but then never does.  I think that's why we wants to talk about it so much.

Funny, as sd is nine but has barely ever mentioned it (aside from an excruciating conversation with my mum about when the ex went into Labour with her)

Is it normal for a young teenage boy to want to talk about it every weekend?  I'm super sensitive but it does feel like he has a worrying, issue or is trying to constantly affirm his relationship with his dad.  I don't want it at all but I think that DH needs to share the lovely stuff and manage it better and away from me right now.

What do you think? Am I being unreasonable?  I almost think that he's old enough to know about step family sensitivities and the fact that our baby died just months ago (in a sensitive and appropriate way of course).

Maybe this just happens and its one of the things that step mums just have swallow and smile?

Hoping that you're all ok and having a not so grumpy Sunday as me xxx


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## Cranky Angie

Hi just checking in to say a quick hello to all. Steppies arrive today, already been moaning at DH so might be on and ranting later.   Funny thing is is it's usually not the steppies that annoy me but DH and his treatment of them (red carpet) compared to me (trash can). You think that things will make a difference and get you a bit better treatment (pregnant, new mum)but nothing ever changes and makes me mad with him before they even turn up.  
Molly, I think your SS wanting to talk about that birth stuff all the time is just plain weird.  Boys are normally almost anti talking about any of that stuff, especially at 12. My steppies never talked about any of that. It's almost as if he's either got an issue with it himself (maybe cos he knows what's been going on with you?) or he's trying to get one over on you? Either way I don't like it, it's insensitive and downright mean after everything you've been through and your DH should definitely speak to him and tell him to. R more consideration of your feelings. Not happy with this one. Thinking of you. Your DH sounds like mine, everything with the kids comes FIRST and wives follow on behind. And it's just not on. 

Got to go. Love to all. 
Ange xxx


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## MissMayhem

Heya crankyangie, welcome back! Sorry there's no let up for you, am feeling very pent up, want me to come visit your DH  , proverbial two birds with one stone we both get results without personal repercussions!  Just kidding, am not prone to violence but boyyyy do I feel it lately. Molly I agree with Angie, I did reply before but that was mid melt-down and seeing how ridiculous I was came back to delete it. I was a stepchild myself and never spoke about my mother in front of my real father and his partner, let alone my birth! I don't get it either but guess it also depends on his maturity. My SD is physically mature and mentally many ways but, emotionally, she misses so much in relation to social cues that either that maturity is lacking or she's just like her mother! Think I said before that after my first failed IVF SD's mother sent her up with photos of her pregnant, flashing her belly as she thought it would be 'nice for mayhem to see them'. Ummm why would that be exactly??! If I didn't pity her so much (when I don't want to kill her!) I'd think it was malicious. But, like I say, self awareness, emotional maturity and social boundaries, all lacking with her mother! I think DH could maybe have a gentle word, he can just ask him if he needs to speak about his birth/ask questions. Or as Angie says it could be a bit of insecurity on SS's part, either that or just indicative of how much the parent-child boundary gets blurred these days! Have had to edit this  post so many times. Shouldn't post when I'm angry, things just come out wrong and nasty. And today I'm very angry. Right, I'm off to breatheeeee, hope you are too ladies, love and hugs to you all.xxx


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## artist_mum

hi

just a quick response for *Molly*&#8230; like Angie said.. it's just plain weird! I can't think of any boy that age who would still be mentioning his birth?!! So when it's odd behaviour it can usually be traced to an adult near to him. His mother perhaps talks about it? Or he enjoys the response from his father? In any case, I wouldn't have it here. I would speak to the child myself (with DP's approval) and ask why he is so interested. I mean he is surely old enough to have a proper conversation about it.

And it is really awful for you. Most steppies (i was one too as a kid) learn pretty quickly not to swap stories from one home to the other because it's just not fair on the new partners. And it doesn't give the new relationship a chance and as we know, it's hard enough already!

Everyone, including the children need to learn that the old family is the former one, and the current family - that's you - is the current one. It doesn't stop them having a perfectly normal life and identity. I think he keeps on about birth because he senses the reaction it gets. I think your DP needs to support you and tell them it's not appropriate or necessary to keep discussing birth regardless of the issues you have had yourself!

Hi *angie* and *mayhem* & anyone else reading. Summer.. trials and tribulations when you're in a step family  Hope you all manage to make the most 

xxx

PS just had SS and SD here, was OK but as usual it just stirs things up and we take time to settle into our own world again.. just in time for them to come AGAIN in 2 weeks time (because their mother refuses to allow 2 weeks in a row). I'm so often on the point of walking out. Really.


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## Cranky Angie

Hi artist mum
I'm with you on the walking out. DH has tonight organised a BBQ full on party (which will be over by 1am?! ) for his 23 year old and 19 year old. Meanwhile I have a 3 week old baby. He's annoyed that the house is untidy (I was in hospital for a month then had c section) and wants me to help with his stupid party even though I only had 3 hours sleep last night and not much more for the 3 weeks before that (I don't think he even believes me cos he's taken to sleeping in the spare room). I am beginning to think I have spent the last 12 years in love with the idea of a husband, marriage and family and actually the bloke I married is nothing more than a selfish chauvinistic idiot who consistently puts himself first. 
Ange x


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## MissMayhem

I hate coming to this post and saying 'I know how you feel' because I know how it feels and, as much as it's good to not feel alone, it's horrible to think of you guys hurting in this way too. I hope you both managed to stay put but hope this is because you've had glimmers of sunshine and not because you've felt you had to. Angie, I'm angered on your behalf to hear the importance of you and your LO seemingly minimised, am sure it's not intentional just would be nice to see you both get the priority you deserve.    My SD has actually been a godsend, a very welcome distraction from my terrible (pmt fuelled, I think  ) mood. I don't know what's worse sometimes artistmum, an ex like yours where they're objectionable and put obstacles in the way or like ours where they're more than happy to not see their kids for weeks and weeks on end so can just prioritise their own stuff. Again this weekend I've had to keep it   about SD's mother   While I'm here ladies wondered if you have any advice about sick papers? Need to selfcert for last week (head went, walked out) and don't know what to put down, similarly don't know what GP would write if I was off for a few more days. Am totally paranoid that if stress or depression is cited this may be used against me if we go for adoption, and also may be used against me as am asking my employer to reduce my hours by one day a week so I can complete a degree course.  Any advice?xxx


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## Cranky Angie

Hi miss m. Thanx for the support   party didn't go well (for me) as I was just too annoyed about the whole thing and ended up at the end of the night as a blazing row between me and DH. He said such mean things I haven't been able to bring myself to be civil to him today. Basically we've hardly spoke and just done our separate things. Don't know how this one is going to end but he knows I'm flipping well annoyed with him so he's keeping out of my way.   Also, as he has pretty much ignored baby all day too I finally decided to push the issue and presented LO to him this evening and said there he is he needs a nappy change.   obviously bonding  is going to have to be forced on this one (although 24 hours ago it was a definite divorce!) 

Miss m I wouldn't risk the stress/depression thing on the prescription. Just in case, you never know. Maybe write in UTI or emergency dental Treatment. 

Better go, am SSooooo unbelievably tired. 
一


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## Molly99

How are you lovelies?  

Just out of interest, how many of you were step children too?  I am a step child too and I loved my step dad who brought me up to bits and my step dad now is just amazing.  It seems like it's so common for step children to end up as step parents, pattern or coincidence?  

It sounds like it has been a rough weekend all around.  Oh, how I envy other people who wind down during the summer holidays, it just seems to get more stressful for us doesn't it.

MissMayhem, I've been thinking exactly the same.  It's so difficult to have to consider the impact that everything you do now has, that's precisely the reason why I didn't go on anti-depressants.  Rubbish isn't it that trying to help ourselves get better can be detrimental.  Our sickness categories are really weird.  I had compassionate leave for my first week (it doesn't need more explanation than that) and then my boss selected the 'influencing health status' category.  That sounds pretty generic to me, I'm hoping that it is.  I've also put down lots of migraines, I do suffer really badly and they can easily last a week.  Vomiting and diarrhea would also be an option because then you have to be very careful visiting people and don't you need 48 hours clear after the last vomiting?

Cranky, I'm just at a loss.  Poor you, you would imagine that this would be the happiest time of your life with a new baby.  It sounds as though you are still having to shoehorn your way into your husbands life, particularly when his children are around.  Maybe it is only women who can have big enough hearts for everyone in their lives, I don't think so though, your husband is going to create such a problem with his relationship with your LO in the future if the disparity carries on.  I can't believe that they don't think of this and see all of their children as equal.

How are you doing Artist.  It sounds like the ex is really trying to control your lives still, that is so wrong to not allow 2 weeks in a row.  Surely that is so important for her child to experience a settled environment for a longer time over the holidays, I can't believe that she will inflict constant too-ing and fro-ing on her own child.  Have you tried to challenge it?  When DH's ex was doing this I was so desperate for us to go through the court for formal access, it would have been utterly horrendous but then at least it would have taken the malicious control element away from her.  How are you feeling about staying now?

I had a lovely weekend with my parents as DH went off to a part with his old friends.  He wanted a boys weekend, which was a relief really because lots of his friends have new babies.  We came back last night completely exhausted and DH was quite grumpy, he decided that would be a good moment to say about his mother.  Honestly, him saying that I have something really emotive to tell you and then I absolutely won't discuss it until another day hasn't worked in 5 years so I don't know why he keeps trying that tact    How can anyone hear something bad and then agree to not talk about it.  Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

It ended badly, which is so annoying because we've been doing really well lately.  I feel like we're living his old life with his ex sometimes, he's repeating all of the same things.  His mother is upset that we're going on holiday and that he won't be going up to her's with the kids as he always has done.  We invited them down here but they can only come for two day.  Although we had a fall out (absolutely her fault) I think that they should stay here and we invited them to (so they can spend more time with the kids and to stop it being awkward).  They refused and want to stay in a hotel miles away and oh it's so awful that they have to do that, blah blah.  

DH played the parent card and said that I'm trying to keep grandparents away from the kids because I don't want to stay at his sister's 5 hours away so that his parents can see the kids for longer.  That's for the couple of days before we fly out for our holiday and on the day that our beautiful little star baby would have been born.  We were with them when I miscarried and I don't want to be with them on that day too.  Of course, DH didn't even recognise our little star as a baby so he wouldn't think about when she would have been born.

He just thinks I'm trying to keep everyone apart.  Funny thing is that this was exactly what he did with his ex.  His mother didn't get on with her either and they stayed in a hotel and DH went up to theirs every holiday on his own with the kids.  He's making us do this in our life too.  I mentioned that if they won't stay here then can we stay in a hotel when we go to theirs and of course it is a no.  Apparently I'm being malicious and making them pay and the kids need to continue to experience staying in their grandparents house.

It's ok for the grandparents not to experience the kids in the kid's house though  

Sorry for the rant.  Seems like the summer is getting to us all.  Sending you lots of   because I think that we all need some extra xxx

Wisp, I hope that you not being around for a while is because you are in your amazing zen space too.  Thinking of you and hoping that you're happy xxx


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## deedee_spark

Hi Molly, 

I hope you don't mind me diving in on this conversation.
Your in-laws sound a complete nightmare. I don't know how, but I think your husband needs to learn that your health comes before his parents wishes. Could you maybe let the kids stay with the grandparents and you and DH stay in a hotel?

I have a stepchild. He is 14 and a half. I'm very lucky because he is a miniature version of his dad. I saw your posts about the 12 year old wanting to talk about his birth. I do find this strange. I don't know what kind of child he is to know whether he is being malicious or not. But I do know that when my step son was 12 he was very insecure and needy - which at the time, I found strange. Every time DH would hold my hand, SS would try to take DH away from me. We went on holiday and SS wouldn't let go of DH for a second. DH was worn out by the end of the holiday. When I look back, I can see his actions were down to insecurity and the perceived threat of losing his father. Kids talk and one of SS friends never sees his father since his divorce. SS was scared. The next time the subject comes up, you could assert your authority by gently asking him (with no maliciousness) whether he has any questions about where babies come from, i.e. does he want to talk about the birds and the bees? Did they not cover this at school? You might find facing it head on, might force him to stop.   If he say's he wants to know about himself as a baby, you'll need to gently tell him that the best person to ask is his mother. If he continues after this, your husband needs to find out what is up with him (i.e. is he threatened by something - possibly a new sibling).

For me, we have moved on 2 years and SS is staying with us less and less. Not because he doesn't want to be here but because he has a social life and we don't want him missing parties because his parents are divorced. We would like to see him more but my DH's ex refuses to swap weekends to accommodate her son's popularity (she has a SS too and makes sure her son (my SS) is around to entertain her SS). The neediness has gone and he is almost as tall as DH. TBH, he gets bored when he stays with us as his belongings (TV, XBOX, PS4) are all at his mothers house, so we are trying to address that by planning weekend fun! lol

For you, it is only a couple of years before he starts socialising too. Once that happens, you have a different child. Hopefully, not a little hormonal sh*t.  
BTW, at age 12 my SS was coming in our bedroom for a cuddle with his dad at 8:00am. Now, we can barely get him out of bed before midday. This means DH and I get a bit of time together. 

The 3 of us are going on holiday next week. For once, I am not dreading it because SS won't leave DH alone. AF is due Monday. If I am not pregnant, I get a bit tearful for a few days. 

MissMayhem - I am gobsmacked by your husband ex sending a photo up?! WTF?

Cranky Angie - Congratulations on the baby. A party after 3 weeks? You did well to hold your temper and not walk out.  

Sending you lot's of baby dust,
xx


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## Molly99

Big   Deedee, thank you for your lovely message.  It sounds as though everything is going well in the Deedee household!  Long may it reign.  Sleep ins are getting a little longer here to    

Cranky, how are you doing lovely?  Are you and your DH moving on or is it still really hard?  Thinking of you xx

Artist, do you have your steppies this weekend?  The constant to and fro-ing must be so trying for everyone.

MissMayhem, thinking about you a lot.  How are you feeling?  Are you still off work?

Well, for me the trauma of meeting my MIL for the first time since our fallout is finally over.  I can't tell you what a relief that is.  It went ok in the end, apart from being horribly awkward in the beginning and it never being quite the same again, it went as well as possible I think.  They made a huge point of it being difficult and in the process made it so that they actually spent very little time with the steppies at all, which was very sad.  I hope &   that they've learnt from it and will stay here next time (as much as I don't relish the thought it is what is right in terms of us behaving like a family and the kids would definitely benefit.

I'm hiding in my bedroom today writing this.  I had the most surreally perfect and wonderful day yesterday, I had the kids by myself all day and completely out of the blue (from outer space in fact) they both asked me if they could have a brother or sister   you could have knocked me down with a feather.  I had a solid 7 hours where they would talk of nothing else, they want us to adopt and went into great detail.  My SD also said that she would like us to have a baby for us too because she feels sad that we only see them at weekends and it would nice for us to have a baby every day of the week.  SS said that all he wants is a little brother. 



I don't think that I've ever felt happier.  On the week that our baby would have been born, it felt like a miracle.

This morning we made a huge fuss of DH and made him breakfast.  By the time I came down after a shower SS was cuddling DH and crying because he doesn't want us to have a baby.  It's stupid, I know that it will take time and there will be ups and downs, but after the year we've had and what would have been our baby due this Friday it finally felt like someone was smiling down on us.

I'm completely over reacting and can't stop crying.  Out of the blue, I finally felt that wanting a child wasn't my dirty little secret any more and I could maybe even wake up and not put on my actor face and pretend that I don't want a child. I obviously wouldn't throw it in their face but just to say what a wonderful thing adding to our family would be felt like I'd been cleansed.  It honestly felt like a miracle happening this week, I climbed back up that big hill and got pushed off the damn edge again


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## MissMayhem

Hey everyone, hope you're all doing well. I've been awol for a while, even needed a break from here for a bit as things got so bad, so much and so little has happened! Yet again am on my stupid phone typing this so will have to be brief as it makes so many errors, but I just came to have a sneaky peep to see how everyone's doing, saw molly's post and couldn't not reply! Huge   to you for getting through what sounds like a difficult, emotional AND happy time. Just wanted to jump in about the SS aftermath reaction though. Am hoping it's just an age thing, my SD was horrendous for years about me trying for a baby. Naturally worried about being sidelined with her father but was jealous as wanted me to herself too. Now she's much better - wouldn't be so scared of her speaking to an adoption sw these days!  Kids can be fickle and emotions are hard for us to fathom half the time so God help their little minds! Keep hanging in there molly.  xx Will catch up properly soon but just wanted to help you to breathe through this bit, they are blissfully unaware at their ages of the power their words and actions can have over us. Am finally off on my hols, leave Sat, but will say hello when I'm back. Thinking of you all with love and fondness  xxx


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## artist_mum

hi everyone

just a real quickie - the steppies have just left again after 2nd visit this summer. All ok but i do hate the coming and going and I find that me and DP need to go off and have a treat together after they've gone. My guess is that it affects him emotionally and it plays havoc with us if we don't do something 'joining'&#8230; like go eat cake. That's my plan 

Also have meant to reply firstly to *angie*. I think you are somewhere short of saint. I cannot believe the party post you put up there. What was he thinking of?! I hope you are doing OK by now. Even though i haven't yet had a baby, I'm guessing it's really hard anyway for those first weeks, let alone if you have one already, let alone if you have steppies, let alone if your partner doesn't get it that you need him 100% supporting you! Hang on in there - you're doing amazingly from where I"m sitting 

Also *mollie* yup I too am a step child. I think you have a real point there. At some level, do we expect the same? Do we go for the same? It would be interesting to do a full survey with proper numbers on this one&#8230; I also suspect that the trauma of going back and forth to my dad with my mother crying etc etc has made the comings and goings of the steppies now far more difficult to bear emotionally. I think it stirs up the old stuff. Anyway, I read your last post and how lovely that your steppies are keen for a baby. I hope your DH has got his head straight by now - of course he wants a baby with you.. otherwise he wouldn't have done the things he has to be with you. Men are very 'in the moment' with the things they say. But I do think he was wrong to say it to the children

*deedee* nice to have you on here! Hope you have a fab holiday 

You too *miss mayhem*  have a great time, only a couple more days to go..

xxx


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## Molly99

Morning lovelies xx

I have been up since 4am baking dog biscuits, anything was better than lying there thinking of what could have been happening today on our little stars birthday    Still, it was good to be practical and my woof will love me for it (when she wakes up   )

MissMayhem, we might pass in the airport  , there's a lovely thought!  We are off to the big city for the day tomorrow and then flying out in the early hours of Sunday.  We need it don't we xx

Deedee, I hope that you had an amazing break xx

Cranky, how are you feeling now?  Thinking of you xx

Wisp and AJ       

Thank you for your wonderful support and for being with me on the roller coaster  

Artist, enjoy that cake.  The arrivals are always the worst, what a fab way to settle!


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## Molly99

Hello lovelies, just checking in after my holiday to see how you all are  

The board is very quiet, so I'm   that means all is well with you all.  I hope that you had wonderful holidays too and that life is peaceful.

We got back last night and already my tan feels like it's fading!  It was wonderful though and great to spend time with DH and as a family.  Something huge was missing for me and we argued quite a lot in the first week, natural I suppose after our huge traumas this year.  My SS was a dream and very happy almost all of the time, my SD on the other hand was a nightmare.  She was borderline malevolent and made it clear that we were holding her against her will at times.  I'm sure that she had a wonderful time and sometimes she forgot herself and did  

She's only nine, god help us if this is a sample of her teenage years    I guess it's her age but she spent days giving us hateful looks and refusing to talk at all.  She even went from deliriously happy playing with me in the pool to suddenly putting me in a headlock and shouting for everyone to hear that I had to let her splash me in the face or she would tell the social workers that I was horrible and they wouldn't let me adopt.  Completely out of the blue, DH just won't believe me 

Loads and load and loads of talk about when they were born, hours spent writing in a book about how her mother is the best mum in the world..... and lots of rows with DH who got it even worse than I did from her but couldn't bear letting me talk about it without becoming a defensive parent  

Sigh, it wasn't really a dream holiday or the holiday that we needed but I am just exhausted now and it's easy to concentrate on the bad stuff.  In all honesty, it was wonderful.  I was very glad to pack the kids off to their mother's this morning though   , which I feel a little ashamed about!

Thinking of you all xxx


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## A J

Molly and all you other lovely ladies I haven't forgotten you just a bit hectic ATM...will post in next few days.
Hugs to those who need them 
AJ xx


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## artist_mum

ditto to AJ's post..

(my dog has had 5 puppies which are now 2 weeks old so it's all go - typical isn't it.. i seem able to get the dog pregnant!)

Hope everyone survived summer and steppies.

xx


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## MissMayhem

Heya girls, hope you're all ok, been strange without you! Congratulations on the puppies artistmum and well done on surviving your hol molly, what a dear sense of humour your SD has!  I think they sound a little bit insecure to have to rave about how fab their mother is. I believe I had (have, thankfully) the best mother in creation but I certainly would never have thought to broadcast that as a child, it was just normal for me I think it's only as adults that we can truly appreciate what our parents did for us. Certainly is strange to me, or perhaps even their mother is insecure and asks all the time what they say about her to you, who knows with exes! Or maybe it's just loyalty towards her. I know I used to sometimes feel disloyal to my mother, if anything though that made me mention her less as I had an idiotic father and a vile stepmother whowould run her down if I mentioned her; so molly you can take it as complimentary that they're comfortable enough to mention her. Small consolation, I know! 

I'm not long back from hols myself, have looked in here a few times but didn't post as so desperately wanted to be able to say something positive. Our hol though just seemed to be yet another tick on a long list of things that me and DH just don't have in common; no fun family nights, no drinking too much alcohol, no meaningful conversation, no passion, no late nights, no fun/silliness and now it seems no hot holidays. We're meant to be having a private consultation this weekend and instead of being excited I'm wondering what the hell we're doing. We had a conversation earlier where he actually listed, in order of importance, getting a classic car, a child, a new guitar. He spoke of always putting others first and it seems that trying for a baby with me is just that. I can't clarify that with him as he refused to talk about it after that. Despite what I've said, I love him dearly, but am really questioning now whether we just are too different to be together. Neither of us are happy but I can't figure out whether that's us reacting to the pressure of IVF or whether this is just us! Am so sorry to be doom and gloom, was determined not to post but don't want to say too much to my family cos they'll just side with me and be less objective. Am going to have to change my forum name again at this rate, harbingerofdoom sounds good!      to you all and please feel free to share some nice news  xx


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## Molly99

Hello!  Lovely to hear from you xxx

AJ, hugs right back to you.  Hope that you're not too busy  

Artist Mum, ah puppies!  Hope that they're not climbing the walls    We're thinking of getting a pup soon, it feels time as our girl is starting to get old and a little lathargic, a pup would keep her busy and I'd love her to pass on her gorgeousness.  Alas, me and my girl are both infertile, I'm riddled with sadness for sterilising my pup, I wonder if she feels as I do?  

Miss Mayhem, I was so sad to read about your holiday.  After all we've been through, it was almost like we've forgotten how to be together, it sounds a little like that was what it was like for you too.  You aren't a harbinger lovely  

Wishing you so much luck with your consultation this weekend.  It's horrible for you to be going into it feeling like this lovely.  It's so sad that we're both coming out of our holidays with a little cloud.  

More upset in the Molly household after I found out that SD had snuck her camera from here back to her mother's (she's not allowed to take it).  We have so little privacy from her and now she gets to see private and intimate photos of us on holiday   .  

Feeling very happy that we don't have the kids here this weekend


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## Cranky Angie

I haven't forgot you all either, just mad tired. AJ your inbox is full!! Empty ASAP I can't possibly write all that again lol! 

Ange x


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## MissMayhem

Heya, angie is that your baby??! Absolutely gorgeous!!  xx Parallels yet again eh molly?!  xx We had our consultation, am reeling a bit as they went straight to donor eggs. Always thought I was totally open to it but now as it's being pushed I'm resisting, is it so wrong that I want to give myself one more chance with my own eggs?! DH has predictably jumped ship and is totally against me using my own eggs when previously it was donor _anything_ that he was against. Am all up in the air now and had some serious talks about where our marriage may be heading, but have stepmother duties today so smile on and pretend everything's ok when it really is not. Am going to consult the donor boards but anyone here had experience of it?xxx


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## Molly99

Urgh, why can't life ever be easy MissMayhem.  It isn't wrong at all that you want to try with your own eggs, don't feel pushed into making a decision.  Perhaps go to see another clinic that specialise in low AMH or different responders?

I'm sorry your DH has jumped ship too.  I remember those 'serious talks' very well!  

Beautiful baby Angie xx

Well, it was a fabulous weekend here, everything that we needed.  I'm feeling very happy


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## Molly99

Hello lovely ladies, how are you all?

Sigh, here I am again.  I get so frustrated and then so sad that I just need to write it down sometimes, at least I feel like I have gotten it off my chest.

DH and I had a little spat about some crazy arrangements yesterday, we left it and I thought moved on but he carried it on all day and then we've just had a humdinger about it just now  

Soooo, DH's mother wanted the kids for half term.  We don't normally do half term because of having to save our leave but all was arranged with minimum impact on us as they were going up to their house.  A couple of weeks after arranging, MIL says that FIL can't get the time off work now, SS and SD are determined that they want to be at their mother's for Halloween and all hell breaks loose.  

DH is going to enormous lengths to keep everyone happy and to ensure that he somehow gets the kids up to his mother's (6 hours away), which involves all manner of weekend changing and bending over backwards.

We tried to talk about crazy arrangement making, DH says its an absolute priority that kids stay with his family no matter what changes need to be made    

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

  

Our row is that I'm finding it hard to move on from the man who categorically wouldn't change any weekend for any of our cycles and couldn't even entertain the idea of swapping a weekend to be with me when they all failed.  DH's response ..... he was with me for a couple of hours on the last cycle, what more do I want from him?

I am just so angry and fed up.  WE DO NOT NEED THIS MIL.  We were just moving on.  I swear that woman plans these things sometimes (sorry, I know that isn't right but COME ON, talk about picking at a just healing wound   )

Rant over,  thank you for listening dear readers xxxxxx


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## artist_mum

you have my total sympathy *molly*.

I would be very angry too. It seems as if he is unable to 'go with the flow' and just let the right thing happen by being flexible and stop making such a fuss about timings for visits etc. The truth is, those kids won't remember if a weekend was missed, or if they had one less half term with 'granny' or whatever.

if MIL offered and now can't oblige, then surely the time gets cancelled until such time as she can do it. And also how about doing what the children want to do.. It's all so tricky. I don't envy you this particularly as you say, as you were getting over the last issues.

Can only send you a massive  and know that you have been heard! I think you are JPO. (Justifiably ****** Off). I hope you find something or someone to take your mind off it all - don't let it poison you for a minute. Its someone else's c**p.

xxx


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## MissMayhem

Oh molly I feel for you   . It can be so hard to forget some of the things our DHs say and do, or don't say or do, when we are at our most exposed and vulnerable. I certainly know that I will never truly be able to forget some of the things mine said and did. I know lots of your story so can imagine  how this accommodation will feel like a big slap in the face for you.   As for your MILI don't know her but really don't have any positive words for her! Take some comfort in knowing others are worse off - yours lives hours away, mine is moving to my doorstep......just in time for Christmas! The joys!!!!!  xxx   for you. Hope you're hurting a little less.xx


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## MissMayhem

Just saw artist_mums response. JPO. I like it!!  xx


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## Molly99

Thank you, you wonderful women 

I do feel a lot better, the injustice of it really does get to me sometimes. To go as far as saying that you have a mental and physical phobia of changing any arrangements for critical dates for us and refuse to change them yet merrily and willfully change them now is a kick in the teeth just a couple of months on.

Turns out he was also cross with me because I made a flippant (I thought nice) suggestion. We've had very old kids school photos in a basket for a while now whilst we've been doing some building work. I came across them and said that perhaps we could print off some lovely photos from our holiday and put them up instead as I'm really not a fan of staged school photos. That way they would mean something to both of us (as I just don't feel that I have a connection with them as school children but I'd love a nice memory of our time together instead). That's fine apparently, as long as I realise that I will never be able to have a school photo up _if _ we ever have a child together.

Sigh, such complicated stuff. I can see how it must feel to him and I wish that it was the same but it just isn't. I've stuck them back up, funny as I was the only one who realised that 2 photos were missing anyway 

JPO is a fab way to put it Artist_mum!! I love it. Yes, I was feeling very JPO. In truth, I still am a little but it's ovulation time so you know what that means - what's more important a grudge or BD'ing at the right time


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## MissMayhem

I know what you're saying molly. It can be hard sometimes thinking about particular memories attached to times that you may not have been a part of. But hey, you've coped with your steppies talking about their conception/birth so a school pic is a walk in the park for you. Having worked with kids for years I think it's important that we have their school pics as it makes them scretly proud. Have a mix of both I say! Yours are still school age so get them to let you know when their pictures are due. That's what we do now. DH only has two school photos as his ex never gave him any, that's fair enough as she paid for them but I do think she could've let him know when they were happening. Perhaps that wasn't really important to him though, men are different creatures to us afterall. We have a mix of school and random pics. Her first comprehensive pic we bought and gave a smaller one to her mother who didn't buy it as 'it's not a very nice picture'. Talk about boosting fragile teenage self esteem! My MIL is down tomorrow to start the preliminaries of her move, already it feels the dictatorship is underway as DH HAS to be there to meet her with the plumber because he knows soo much about plumbing, yeah right! I feel a new thread coming on molly....coping with MILS!  Glad you're feeling a little better,   this will be a lucky month for you. Love to you all xx


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## artist_mum

hi miss mayhem and molly - am reading your posts but it's crazy here with these 6 week old puppies so not a minute to myself.  (gorgeous as they are)  will post soon though.  thinking of you 

xx

PS that JPO thing was something I was told when really ill with M.E. and got depressed and low.  and they were talking of treating the depression etc and then someone said, it's not depression you are JPO.  And i thought, yeah, that's great.  Sometimes we are totally justified in the way we feel cos life is not being fair, and instead of taking a pill or having counselling we can just say "yup JPO.  Gonna accept it as unfair and move on with something else in my thoughts"  xx


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## Wisp

Hi all,

Thought I would pop on to say hi as I haven't been on here, or the site, for so long!  I think I just needed a break from all things 'fertility' and it has generally been really good for me.  We haven't been ovulation testing or thinking about when we should have sex, worrying about what to eat, or not to eat! FREEDOM!!

However I still get this spotting before AF every month and I have to try hard not to let that get me down, as I am convinced that while that is still happening there is no way I can conceive.  I also get so bloody hot around AF it does my head in!! 

I think I have started to come to terms with the fact that it may never happen for us, I don't want to go down the IVF route, time, money, stress etc, so we have made that decision knowing what it may mean for us.  I still have days when I feel angry and sad, it's so unfair, but it is getting so much easier to cope with.  Although i do worry that that might be because I still have some hope....

I am still coping okay (mostly!) with the steppies. It is still hard at times and I feel resentful sometimes that they are there and I do not have a child of my own and that they come and take over the house! It is much harder when AF is here, like now! So I'm not looking forward to them coming this weekend  .

How are you all doing?! xxx


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## artist_mum

hi *wisp* and anyone else reading..

Like you wisp I am due AF and it is my birthday this weekend and my steppies are coming too. Plus i am at the end of my tether with 5 x 7 week old puppies which is REALLY hard work! And to make it worse, it was my SD's birthday last weekend which of course she spent with her dear mother and so this weekend, when it is my birthday - we have to celebrate hers instead because she is only 11. And yes, i know i sound like a meany pants but when you add in that today we have been refused a mortgage (because we had to wait 5 YEARS whilst her mother took DP to court etc etc etc) and now, we cannot get one because the rules have changed&#8230;. and so we will have to sell the house without finishing it and, of course, not do the IVF we have been researching and i have been quietly working towards.

Sorry&#8230; MAJOR RANT! I am so angry and so ready to throw in the towel. The reason we cannot get approved is because we have outstanding debt on credit card from our IVF. And i will be 49 this birthday. So it's game over i suppose.

I'm so so angry. I have taken care of the children, i have put up with her treating me like dirt when i never did anything (they were already split when we met) I have had 3 IVFs all carried out amidst the stress of her harassing him for money. And to top it all she just inherited in the £100,000s (maybe 2 or 3 not sure yet).

I'm here on my own now. He seems unable to recognise how grossly unfair this has been on me. And I asked him to go. I am really ready to finish this now. I cannot face weekends, holidays, summers, christmases all about his former family whilst my hopes die out, not from my own process but due to finances and his ex taking up the 5 last years that i had to make this dream come true.

HELP me ladies!! I'm at my wits end 

sorry such a 'me' post. the mortgage was just the final straw. they had told us since June we could get the borrowing very easily, and now today it has been turned down due to change of rules and the delay on their side meaning I am no longer in contract with relevant pay slip.

wisp - i hope your weekend goes ok. take time out for you? if you can.. a hot choc down at Costa?! I think i'm too far gone here to make ours work! Hang on in there xx

xxx


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## MissMayhem

Oh artist_mum, my heart is breaking for you.  Life can be so very cruel and unfair and, it seems, just when we think things can't get much worse, other lesser beings play their trump card and trample on our dreams.  I wish there was something that I could actually DO to help you, if I were only nearer I would take the puppies off your hand for a few days at least, and give you a proper hug.  You were one of the first people on here to help me so I know what a compassionate, competent and understanding woman you are. I know how fond you are of your stepchildren and how you enjoy them and care for them.  You are not being a 'meany pants' at all, using your own words you are very truly JPO, in fact, the actions of DH's ex makes that statement pale into insignificance.  It is all so unfair.  Being in our situation at all is unfair but to have everything else thrown at you in this way, and at this time, must be so hard to bear.  You are juggling so many different balls, each of which gets bigger and bigger when AF rears it's ugly head, ironically it's the one thing we can almost guarantee month in month out.  Now on top of everything you've had the ex throw the money ball at you which has dashed yet another of your dreams.  Of course you're angry; you would have to be a saint to be able to consistently turn the other cheek all the time.  Knowing how hard this journey is on its own I wonder how one person can manage with all that you're having to deal with. But deal with it you will, I know this as your qualities shine through in every post you submit and every message that you have sent me.  This will be one more thing that you will, somehow, get through.  The only thing I can say about the ex is that at least you can hold your head high and know that you carry yourself with integrity and dignity.  She is bound to have some knowledge of what you are going through as children talk so someone who can behave that way knowing what she knows shows someone who is base and bitter.  You are better than that, but I know that it's little consolation when your it's your life and your dream that hangs in the balance.  All I can say to you is please remember you are not on your own, even though it is so easy to feel like it sometimes when everyone else's lives seem to fall into a neat, predictable pattern.  But we are here, we hear you and we share your pain.  If there was any fairness in the world you would not have had the news you had today, but if there were fairness in the world then none of us would have any need to be here supporting each other.  I know that you will get through this, just hope that it's as painless as possible for you.  You are hurting so much at the moment and are justifiably angry.  I know that birthdays begin to become as unwelcome as AFs now but try to do something nice for yourself too, heed your own advice - you give good advice, always! Especially this weekend, it's your special day too and you deserve to be made a fuss of.  I'm pretty much nocturnal lately so if you need to chat when there aren't many others on here you can pm me any time, I can't say I'll be much help, but I will certainly understand.  Feeling powerless can be one of the most frightening things, that's what this journey has taught me and it sounds like you're having a 'what if it never happens' moment, I had one last night.  The fear, upset, pain and anger that those thoughts conjure up can be terrifying; these are the things that we share, the painful feelings that are almost too difficult to put into words.  Please know that we are here, keep breathing, rage when you need to and know that your feelings are totally justified and will be acknowledged and felt by us even if nobody in your closest circle can understand.  Huge hugs to you     artist_mum, I pray that tomorrow will be a better day for you and you find positive resolution soon. xxxxxx


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## Molly99

Artist_Mum, I wish that there was something else that I could add onto MissMayhem's wonderful post.  I want to echo everything that she put so well.

Sending you the hugest of   What you have been through and still are is utterly unfair, it completely sucks and you are the most brave and fantastic woman for making a stand.  I too wish that I could help you in any way?  Can I?  Is there anything that I can do?

I know that the only person who you want to actually do something is your DH.  If only he would.  I honestly think that they genuinely cannot see what life is like sometimes.  The way they see it is that we all blend in and the kids come first no matter what.  In a bio family that works for people, in a step family the incomer is just expected to be at the bottom of the list.  Things go on around us that aren't fair, in emergencies (and hell, your going through one right now) sometimes a couple just has to put themselves first....or (dare I say it) just sometimes, we have to come first.

It shouldn't be a competition, but it is when the balance is so far off and DH's use the children as an excuse to just not change or think about the health of their marriage.  Yet the step parent is always the one made to feel guilty and wrong for needing time and support too.

Honey, honestly you deserve a weekend.  It's horrible that it falls on an alternative birthday weekend for your SD but it sounds like a crisis and one of those occasions where your DH could just see his daughter and make a huge fuss of her during the week and scoop you up from the floor and just make a huge big fuss of you this weekend.  Sometimes it's just blooming hard all round but you do what is right for everyone.

Sigh, in an ideal world huh! 

Has he left completely lovely?  Have you been in contact at all?  Your head must be in complete turmoil, and when I was going through something a little like this all of you wonderful ladies advised me to just step back and protect myself.  This has been brewing for a while though for you, maybe hitting rock bottom will be the decider for you (or hopefully he'll come back and sweep you off your feet with apologies).  Just take the weekend to step back and protect yourself.

As for the ex, justice seems very far away sometimes doesn't it.  When we struggle so much financially and have to sacrifice our most heartfelt needs yet things are actually really easy for them it is hard to swallow.  My DH's ex was given a house by her parents, has no mortgage and is due to inherit millions (her father invested in property in a place that's now an idyllic commuter village, I know how it feels hun   )

Onto your gorgeous but unruly puppies, blimey that must be such hard work.  What kind are they?  The additional pressure of them on top of how you're feeling must be very difficult.  Is there anyone that can help?  Oh, how I wish that I could, we are still thinking of a puppy. 

Sooo, what are you going to do this weekend.  I know when I was at my lowest that when people asked me that I just sobbed, but can you save your weekend for you?  Do you have friends or family or can you just go out, buy a tonne of ice cream, crisps and biscuits and watch truly bad films?  I can recommend This is the End if you are after a rue and sly snigger - it's very silly comedy and a bit boyish but all of the truly just people are whisked off to heaven at the start of the apocalypse and all the nasty ones are left.  It tickled me that, maybe that is when things finally start to go our way huh  

Keep writing flower.  We are all here for you.  I will never forget how kind you were to me when I thought that life couldn't get any worse.  I am here for you, we all are whatever time or however much you need us xxxxxxx

Wisp, I missed you!  Not that I was wanting you feel like you needed support again!  It is lovely to hear how you've been getting on though and to know that you are ok.  I am so pleased that the rest has found you some peace.  AF's and children arriving will always be a hard reminder.  I'm not sure that that it's ever possible to not have just a small amount of resentment every now and then, it's what you do and how you respond when you feel it that matters.  You sound like you're so much stronger than just a little while ago.  I hope that you enjoy the weekend, it's often easier the day after they arrive and everything settles down.  Wishing you lots of luck and sending you positive vibes xxxxx

Loads of   and love to you MissMayhem, how is your decision making going?  Thinking of you xxxxx

I've been recommending this page to lots of people recently, it's sad to see so many wonderful women struggling with how they feel and wondering whether it's ok to feel that way.  If you're lurking out there and afraid to join us then come on in, we're not half as crazy as we might sound    We know each other really well now but this is also a really safe place to share how you really feel and the struggles that we all go through being in infertile step families.  It's hard to find somewhere that genuinely is safe and where people really do understand - this is one of them though


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## Wisp

Artist_Mum hi again, I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. Thank god for this site and other women who know how we feel, even though we cant sort it out for each other, it is so good to get support and understanding. My husbands ex inherited a lot of money recently too, I just couldn't bear to think about it I felt so angry and envious! So sorry to hear about the mortgage, it is so unfair. The impact of fertility issues is just massive, it seems to effect so much. Do you think you would be happier ending the relationship?! 

I wish I could take a few puppies for the weekend for you, I could get out and walk them (if they can go out yet that its!?) and get that Costa!!

Molly, hello! You have been in my thoughts even though I have been absent! Thank you for thinking of me.  Thank you for the luck for this weekend, I always struggle more with it when AF is here. At least my husband sparnets are bringing the children tonight, so we can get in and have a bit of time together before they arrive. I do feel much stronger, but it is still hard sometimes. Like you said it's how we deal with these feelings and I am trying hard to accept how I feel, which really helps.

xxxxx


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## MissMayhem

to you too wisp.  I know what you mean about even needing a break from here sometimes.  Despite the massive amount of support that I get from these boards I also get to a point sometimes where I can't even begin to look at anything here as my own pain overwhelms me so much.  I can't help but admire the resolve you seem to show, I know also though that sometimes you won't be feeling that there's much to admire.  I wish I was as brave as you with the decisions you've made.  I know the feeling of panic that comes over you when you get 'that' feeling that it may never happen.  Being an avid viewer and poster of this particular thread I know too how hard it can be to balance all the completely rational, irrational and conflicting feelings that arise when you throw a step child or two into the mix.  I am ashamed to say that, whilst I still think the world of my SD, I too have days where I resent her very existence.  The more she grows, the more I am reminded of what I have missed out on, what I still crave so much it hurts and, unfortunately for my little steppie, what her own mother takes for granted again and again and again.  I am going to be so naive here and ask why you think that spotting before AF is minimising your chances?  I never spotted before in my life until I had my first laparoscopy, then I would have spotting for two days, then two days break, then AF.  I have been seeing an Integrated Therapist who told me that I had fibroids and actually described my AF to me.  After his treatment the spotting seemed to stop, for a while at least, he said that was because he had shifted the fibroids.  Now though I have another (he says they can come and go all the time quite naturally) which has to be operated on.  They said they don't think it's anything nasty but can't rule it out so have to remove, and, if it's attached to my ovary will be removing that too.  I'm scared.  I kind of need my ovary.  And I kind of need the money that I will be spending on this operation for treatment. My AF came last weekend, coinciding with step-motherly duties where I had to sit through a family meal and watch SD brandish photos of her and DH on her christening day.  The pain was almost too much but what can I say to a 13 year old!?!  Luckily she didn't shove photos of her mother with her pregnant belly in my face this time which she did once before as her mother 'thought it would be lovely for you to see'.  Yeah right, just what we need isn't it!  I don't think people who haven't gone through what we are experiencing can EVER understand the painful significance of AF arriving.  We feel for you here, as you know.  My only consolation at present once AF has reared her ugly head is, at the very least, I am hopefully still ovulating and not nearing menopause.  Small mercy I know. Thinking of you this weekend, and love to you all.xx


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## artist_mum

thank you beautiful ladies for your posts!  All of which made me cry, the relief of support and understanding.  You know.. Just that people understand how massively unfair it is being in these step shoes.

anyway, in haste, as believe it or not, i have to go ring the mortgage guy before the weekend hits..  i made such a fuss yesterday both crying and shouting on the phone that I would not let this lie. I have the supervisor on the case now...  although it still doesn't look promising.

will write more soon, meantime, a million thanks for your posts which i shall re-read later.  So kind of you, and so thoughtful, each one.  i don't know if DP is coming back or not, we haven't spoken since yesterday.  will update

wishing you good weekends one and all
xxx


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## JoJo7

Hi Ladies,

I posted once a long while ago and have been follwoing you all and willing you on from the sidelines.  I am not looking for any advice as I dount that there is any really that can be offered, I guess I am just looking for a safe place to vent amongst lovely people who will understand and this sure seems like the right place for me to come.
I'll keep it brief - basically I have a good relationship with my stepkids, access is flexible and up until recently all relationships with the ex and her parnter were amicable.

My DH had a vasectomy reversal in late August and bascially things have been an absolute nightmare with the ex ever since.  It started (literally) the day my DH went into hospital for surgery.  She had got wind of the op via one of the older kids.  It started with demands for more money every month (which we gave her), then escalated into the kids feeling pushed out because we were trying for a baby (not true - we sat the kids down and spoke about this when we heard), and now it has escalated into further demands for more money and threats to involve the CSA.  That part I can cope with as anything the kids are entitled to have we are more than happy to pay/offer.  But today the guilt trip has started calling DH all the names under the sun, telling him he is turning out just like his father (a sore point for him) and basically criticising him left right and centre and saying he aint no father of the year (and probably more but this is all I have been told via the rushed telephone convo me and dh had at lunchtime).  I am devastated that after 6 smooth running years where we all put the kids best interests at heart that this is happening now.  My dh is gonna beat hismelf up and feel the guilt that is always bubbling just below the surface and i am gonna once again end up putting my needs last and giving everyone else what they want.  Onthe financial side if we do give her everythign she wants that would mean that i ouldnt come back to work part time after a baby as i simply couldnt afford to.  I dont want to leave my much longed for baby with my mum to bring up and have to return to work at the earliest opportunity simply because our outgoings are huge to accommodate her tantrums.

i also feel angry and resentful that she knows so much info about my dh that she still has the power to hurt him.  silly of me I know.

Im hurt, angry and upset and just need to vent.  Thanks for listening.

JoJo xx


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## artist_mum

*jojo* heard and understood. What on earth is it with these women?!

xx


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## artist_mum

PS  DON"T put your needs last.  This is YOUR life.


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## artist_mum

and quickie message for everyone else - just read your messages again, you are so kind.  The puppies are golden retrievers.  They are really gorgeous.  In a perfect world I would give you all one each to look after for the weekend, they just melt you (but 5 is a little exhausting!)

DP did come back.  he slept in the car last night apparently (cos too stubborn to text/come home) then went to work today.  Needless to say we argued all evening cos we are both exhausted and he left with a suitcase with the kids stuff in it. Then phoned and finally came back.  we had fish fingers whilst the puppies ran merry mayhem around us.  He went to bed. And i enjoyed our lovely puppies, just fed them now and off to bed.

To be honest, i just feel really sorry for him and for me.  We try so very hard to do the right thing and like you ladies, have really tried to put the children first whilst also trying to have a life together.

I have no understanding of why women like these behave the way they do to their ex partners and why they would expect another woman to put up with this kind of **** whilst caring for their children.  I have ex partners.  I do not treat them like this.  It just baffles me.

Got to sleep.  Love to all
xx


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## deedee_spark

Just a quick note as I am trying to focus on everything but babies these days...

I am sorry so many of you are struggling. Being a step mum is really hard when TTC.  All sorts of ugly emotions appears.

I have a friend who is in the opposite situation to me. Her husband left her for another women, leaving her with the children. My husband's ex left him for another man.

We tell my step son nothing about TTC. He doesn't even know. If he asked, I would laugh and say, "I'm too busy with <blah> right now to think about babies." 
His mother, my DH ex wife, is a nosey cow who does ask. He assures me she doesn't know (they'll be a divorce if I find he has told her). She tells my DH how much she still loves him, how she still thinks about him, etc... She still has a photo of them in her wallet. Yes, she is still with her lover (they went on to have a child together). She put's all sorts of crap on ******** about how she is the original Mrs XXXXX. Does it bother me? Not really. I think she is an idiot and she is making herself look an idiot in public. She made her choice to leave my DH and screwed up her child. In fact, her new lover did the dirty on his own wife and child, so there were sets of families destroyed by their love. Do I worry DH will go back? No. Their marriage was over along time before I came on the scene. They met as teenagers and have only their son in common. I am completely different to his ex (not better, just different). DH and I have much more in common, plus we have grown up. We know what we want.

Basically, in most of our cases it seems the ex hasn't moved on. I had a boyfriend at uni who I loved - he was my first love. We were together for about 5 years and I finished with him. He found someone new, married her and had children. For a long time I had a sense of entitlement that I was there 'first'. Then I got over myself and realised the relationship was over well before the 5 year end. I think most of this women have a sense of, 'I was there first, therefore I own him.' They need to grow up, the best you can do is let them make a fool of themselves.

The other thing is the threat of a new child. The ex's are threatened by the new child. Firstly, it means there is the risk that their money will be reduced - you'll be entitled to reduce child support so that your child will be paid for. This causes them no end of worry... Secondly, since we are all 'fertility challenged,' we don't fully understand the impact of being a mamma bear. Being a mamma bear means that we fight for our child to receive the best, because our kids are the best (to us). We won't want some new kids taking the attention away from our adored children. Ex's are fearing what role their children will play if there father has a new baby. It's an entitlement thing.... "My kids come first..."

My advice is this, and maybe I am completely wrong....

From now onwards:

Don't discuss persona things with the children until the last minute (i.e you're 3 months pregnant or you are definitely adopting and have started the process). Kids don't get to decide on their parents divorce. They don't get to decide in a traditional family whether they have a sibling. They get told. They're kids. Giving them adult choices is confusing and more worrying for them. Let them play, and let the parents do the worrying for them. Making them worry prematurely, is not fair on them either.

Don't discuss things you don't want the ex knowing in front of the children - hard as it maybe.

If asked, defected the question. If they already know, play it down when it comes up again. i.e 'We'll see if we have a baby, but I am too busy with X right now to think about babies.'

Be on the same team as your DH. Mine is willing to do anything to shut me up about having baby (the tears, the whinging has worked ). Sperm donation, donor eggs, adoption - if I am happy with this stuff, then he is generally happy. He has a child, why can't I? I have even said that I would be uncomfortable having a donor egg with his sperm as it would be like him again, and not like me. If we do donor, we do sperm and egg.

It's very hard putting someone else's child first, so you need to put you first. Don't give up unless you want to give up.

It is hard on our DH's. They are torn, but they bring on themselves by wanting to share too much with the kids.

Anyway, really sorry if this is a bit of a lecture. Like I said, trying to pull myself together and think of other things in my life, so didn't want to spend too much time writing. I know I am lucky I only have one steppie to worry about and he is just like it father. I can't imagine having more than 1! It must be really, really hard for you.

I send the biggest hugs to each and everyone of you.

x   

Please put yourself first. 

From a stepmon, step-daughter and step-grandaughter (who is learning from their mistakes, ha ha)

Sorry - my note is not so quick!


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## deedee_spark

Funny, I should write that this morning. We had an abusive text from my DH's ex this morning.

Being a child of divorced parents, I can see all the games, and we won't respond, because we won't hurt SS. Won't go into detail online, as too much drama. It is basically about access to SS. Usual story for fathers....

This is a great article about children of divorced parents, 'what not to do'. It's great for us, as we are not the one's screwing the kids up.

My parents bitter divorced screwed up me and my siblings. It wasn't my step mum (poor thing has to put up with my father now).

It's called innocent dads, but I think it is more about the children. Any gender is guilty of this abuse.

http://www.innocentdads.org/alienator.htm

This is about jealous ex wives: http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/sisterspace/article_9997.shtml

My DH's ex, really struggles with the fact DH has built a new life and is happy without her. She can't get used to the fact that when she calls, he no longer comes running.

But remember, we're all innocent in these dramas. It is not us messing up the kids. It is not us jealous of the ex.

We should look after ourselves and concentrate on ways we can get a family. A child that we would never mess up due to divorce...

Sending more hugs. x


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## MissMayhem

Hey everyone, hope Sunday is being kind to you so far. I'm having a mini meltdown again, ovulation approaching DH ignoring me as usual and op next week so don't even know if we should try to get pregnant this month. Veryinteresting post deedee, think DH's ex has moved on, they split when SD was 1, she's 13 now and her mother has been in the same hedonistic relationship since then. Definitely agree that she would be threatened by another child as since SD was 8 have had to put up with her very vocally voicing that she doesn't want me to have a baby as she 'won't get as much intention', her confusion betrayed the fact that it was a very adult comment to make. Unfortunately though it isn't matched with putting her child first. She infuriates me with her consistently selfish behaviour. 2am this morning I receive a txt from SD who was having a full on panic attack. She clagms the text was meant for her mother, I think she made an educated guess at who would respond and chose me. 4am I manage to get her relaxed enough to sleep. I believe her anxiety is fuelled by ex's amphetamine use (which she denies). Her mother is away at her boyfriend's, again (they live with elderly Grandfather as ex got evicted for not paying rent so SD not home alone at least!)  Every time we get to the point of bringing SD to live with us mummy does the guilt trip, emotionally blackmails her like a pro and temporarily pauses the neglect button. She is messing her child up big time and couldn't give a sh*t! Days like today I could so open my mouth to her. But being a step child myself I know the only person that will upset is SD! Mother of the year still hasn't contacted her, despite her text message ending with 'I'm REALLY frigitened. Please help x' It just adds to the injustice of it all! I want to tell DH that's it, she stays whth us but the trump card will be 'bitter, inertile Mayhem, taking my child just because she can't have her own'. I am SO angry with her, not only taking something we would die for for granted, but possibly causing her long term damage in the process. And STIL I have to defend mummy and try (probably unsuccessfully) to hide my true feelings in order to protect her child as much as I can. Keeping my mouth shut today will be a struggle.  xx


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## artist_mum

thinking of you *miss mayhem* hope you managed to keep stumm.. that was a tall order I bet! That ex sounds like a complete nightmare. Hang on in there and know you are one safe port of call for that child in a rather stormy sea that is her life with 'mum'. I feel for you. stay strong x


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## deedee_spark

You sound like a great stepmum MissMayhem. Your step daughter will remember the person who gives her love. I feel so sorry for her - the mother sounds a complete nightmare. Neglect is abuse! Abuse is childhood can dictate your entire life. Some parents make me so angry. 

Shame she can't live with you. 

Ignore the mother's comments about your fertility. You are currently fertility 'challenged,' better to be that than a child abuser. 

I really hope you get your dream. I hope we all do. 

I'm glad to this forum as it meant I could have a little rant over my SS's mother at the weekend. Ex's wife is trying to control the weekends of 5 adults (4 of them hate her) and 2 teenagers. Anyone with half a brain would realise it was impossible to get 5 adults to bow to command.


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## Molly99

Oh no lovelies, rough weekends all round  Thinking of you all, I hope that you are all ok.

ArtistMum, how are things with you? It sounds like you had complete turmoil, I am so sorry that you had a rotten birthday.

MissMayhem, that is just horrendous. It is so wonderful that your step daughter trusts and relies on you, you should be very proud of that. The poor girl, I'd echo Artist_Mum, she at least has you and your home as a haven of stability. How did the OV and DH issue go?! Ah, needing to try in the mist of a row or uncomfortable silence, I know it well 

JoJo, blimey you poor thing. The horse has bolted now, so you're in a horrible position. That's such an invasion of privacy though, I would be absolutely fuming if DH's ex found out about our reversal. I guess that you just need to ride this one out lovely but there is a line and she shouldn't be able to cross it. We had so many problems like this, DH's ex was horrible and abusive and tried absolutely everything to control us. It took us a _very _ long time to take control of the situation and put her in her place (so to speak, I just mean to make it clear that we do everything for the kids but that's where her part in our life ends). If he isn't already then your DH really needs to make it clear what is acceptable and just not engage in conversations beyond that. The poor kids must be suffering though, I'll never understand why women think that it's ok to emotionally hurt their children and use them as pawns. I'm so sorry that you're caught up in this.

As for money, it's very sad if this can't be worked out amicably but if it is being used as bribery and manipulation then it really isn't the end of the world to go through the CSA and simply take out that level of her game. We had the same problem, we said fine when DH's ex kept demanding more or she'd tell the CSA. She did tell them and now we pay her less as the amount that the CSA fixed was lower. It didn't help her at all but it made our lives so much simpler and stopped her bullying by threatening it. We still make sure that the kids have everything, we give them wonderful experiences and buy them extra things now.

Great advice and links Deedee. You sound like you've been through it all before and have come out stronger! Sorry that you had a nasty text though. She sounds like she's not willing to give up her control easily but you're doing absolutely the best thing back and not rising to it 

How was your weekend Wisp? I hope that it went well.

AFM. I am VERY HAPPY  We had a lovely weekend, I was so happy to see the kids. I just love the bustle and purpose of a busy house. We also rescued a little 4 month puppy  I feel like I have a reason to get up again, my beautiful older dog is pretty independent but little pup needs me and I am on cloud nine 

I set up an email address for SD this weekend, our first attempt at having contact between me and the kids during the week (we've always been very careful because their mother and older sisters would send nasty stuff). She emailed me as soon as she got home......and then I had another two.....those clearly weren't written by her unless her spelling the way she writes has suddenly massively improved. Sad that someone else hacked into it but the email was polite and lovely all the same  Another hurdle down?!


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## Sbarky15

JoJo I am in the exact same boat as you (minus the reversal - I'm just having difficulty conceiving). So bloody hurtful. If you need a chat feel free to PM me we can swap stories and moan about exes together - to someone who understands x


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## MissMayhem

Hi everyone and thanks, as always for your continued support. Apologies too for a post that was so me me me but I just had to rant before I exploded on Sunday, and before my phone battery died! You know when you _just_ got to get it off your chest!?

Artist_mum "Happy Belated!!" I know they begin to get bittersweet but is your special day nonetheless. Fishfingers and puppies sounded good though!  Did you get any better news with the mortgage after? So hope so, and hope things have improved with DH.

Molly, is GREAT to hear you with a smile on your face, how lovely after the past few months  

Hugs to you wisp, we know how exhausting the cycle is, devastation at AF turning yet again to hope only a few days down the line. At the risk of stepping out of type and being positive for once (  ) we must remember that miracles do happen for thousands of women in our position so there is nothing to say it won't happen for us. I pray with all my heart that you get what you rightly deserve, that we all do.

And hugs to jojo, nejohnson and everyone else, am not being rude but can't scroll properly on this stupid phone!

Deedee am planning on having a good read of your links when I get to bed, see if there isn't something there that can't help calm me and help us find a solution. My fear is though that some solutions can only be found when all adults involved can be reasonable. I think we have all learned the hard way that not all adults are capable of this. I can count myself in the same category at times, particularly so when ivf cycling , but I would like to think that the majority of the time I put SD's needs first. Who knows what fuels such cruel reactions from some of the people we have to deal with

With DH ex the saddest part is I honestly think there is no deliberate malice in her. Even the photos of her pregnant when I'm in my situation I don't think were designed to hurt, it came more from a complete lack of self awareness or ability to have any thought about how others may respond to, feel about or perceive anything. She just does what she does and says what she says each and every time. No consequential thinking, and no real care either way even if there was. I know that emotional harm is abuse, I work in that kind of field, yet every time I discuss my concerns the result is the same: it's not considered significant _enough_!  Got worse yesterday, blame was pinned on me as SD thinks the only thing that has changed is me as I'm not so fun anymore! And ironically it's true, it's been hard to always be up for being the one who organises everything we do, instigate the fun, chat til all hours, deal with every teenage and mother related drama that comes up when for the most part I've been so depressed that I've barely wanted to be alive! She's noticed no change in her mother as she has been accustomed to being second best to her needs for the last seven years, at least! Had a serious talk with DH tonight and he rang and spoke to her mother. She admitted, at least, that SD is unhappy but (in front of her) said she just needs to stop worrying and get on with things. SD wants to come with us but doesn't want to change schools. We're going to ring around tomorrow and find out our options. My worry is that if she does come her mother may be inconsistent with contact and I wonder if that will do more damage. My father was useless at it, andgit hurt, lots, BUT that was with my wonderful mother as my backbone. I wonder how SD will cope without that foundation. All this and only a few months back I was _determined_ to step back from SD emotionally as I spent 90% of my time either worried about her or furious at something her mother had said/done to her. Yeah right, like I was ever going to achieve that!  Even in the middle of all this though she told SD when she met DH she just deliberately got pregnant and had no intention of staying with him. I'm sorry but WHY would ANYONE tell a child that! So I have SD's emotions to deal with and DH's as he feel this has made him look like a mug to his child. Good job I'm feeling fantastic and not at all worried about op/ovulation/ever realising my dream, eh!!  Gosh, sorry for SUCH a rant, feel so much better though. Love and    to each and every one of you.xxx


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## Wisp

Hi 

Thank you all for your lovely thoughts and wishes. It's so nice to feel cared for an understood by others who really understand! Can only write quickly now, but weekend was good, I try to throw myself in now as that seems to help, but I still have those feelings of reluctance before they arrive!  Like you Miss Mayhen, I am always positive about my SD and SS mums in front of them, I think it is so importnat. They will know when they grow up who acted in the most helpful way in all this!

I will write more when I can! 

Love to all x


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## Wisp

Miss mayhem, sorry I called you miss mayhen!! xx Typo! xx


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## Molly99

What a nightmare MissMayhem (loving MissMayhen, very cute   )

I think that it would be impossible for you to have taken a step back emotionally, how could you when you are such a caring person.  I'm glad that you are looking into options, it sounds like all that poor girl needs is some stability in her life.  Having a parent who can't provide that and is in fact harmful is far worse than a period of change.

My dad managed only sporadic contact from their divorce until he died.  It hurt for a time but we quickly discovered that it was by far more painful to see him than to not because he was destructive.  That's very sad, I wouldn't wish it on anyone but  you know, we were very happy in my step family and I wouldn't change how it was for anything in the world now. 

You need to rant too, blimey this is a lot to be taking on.  Well done you, remember to take yourself out of it for just a few minutes and give yourself a lovely treat every now and then.

I'm proud that my steppies always talk to me about their mother and sisters, it hurts sometimes but I have never let on and I really encourage it.  Sometimes we can fill a slot between their parents and help them have a little more of a normal life.  I wish that we could see them more again, I miss them very much and I'm finding fortnightly hard.

We're at the horrible stage when SS just isn't wanting to come any more.  He just wants to be with his friends, which is completely understandable but very hard for us    It's going to get harder when he eventually finds a little weekend job, I wonder how it will work out then?  Sometimes I think that we should move closer but our house is idyllic for all it's ramshackleness and my work is already an hour in the opposite direction.  I never thought that I would miss them so much, it feels like that little infertility hole is filled just a little when they are here.

Still, little pup has finally crashed after demolishing the house and is curled up in my lap.  Happy days


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## artist_mum

hi 

quickie post just to put the record straight.. like Wisp i often have a feeling of reluctance before the steppies weekend and then it is fine.  I think the on off nature of step parenting is part of the problem.  And with us having argued I did wonder what kind of birthday i would have..  it turned out fab!  Funny how that happens.  DP and the kids stayed here on sunday and looked after all the puppies whilst i went down to somerset to a great new art gallery there with a friend and had the best day out    And DP decided it best whilst the puppies are here (and living in the lounge/dining room) that kids stay with their granny overnight sunday to make monday morning easier for everyone.  So he/they did me a birthday tea for when i got back after my outing and disappeared back to granny's place.  Perfect  

I think often the anticipation/dread is worse than the reality - certainly in my case.  And then I feel i have over reacted.  But then AF does that doesn't it?!

thanks for all the support 

Have good week everyone

xx


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## artist_mum

ps *molly* lovely news about the pup! enjoy  Ours are going to their new homes this weekend and we are keeping one little girl with us xx


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## MissMayhem

Haaa no worries wisp, took me ages to settle on a name for here so feel it's bound to have a life of its own!  I do my best not to say anything but think I fail a lot of the time -I have one of those unfortunate faces!   I've looked into the options for DH at his request so the info is here ready but as predicated her mother has temporarily stepped up to the plate.  I just feel that we are now guilty by default for allowing this to continue so long. I will put my efforts back into emotionally disconnecting, yes molly, I will!  It's another thing that's out of my control, I accept that....when I'm able to.  Anyway, surgery on the weekend so at the moment am distracted with thoughts that they don't take my ovary, and funds, cross your fingers for me girls.

artist_mum I am so pleased to hear you enjoyed, that put a smile on my face.  Rest assured you are not overreacting; I was ready to kill or leave DH only a few days ago, yet the past two days we have been lovely despite the stress of SD and ovulation.  I even commented that it is nice for us to be getting on for such a long run - then remembered it was only Saturday we argued!  It's all part and parcel of the hands that have been dealt us I think....and I think we're all doing bloody amazing to be doing so well quite frankly!  I even surprised myself with two smiles today whilst walking my furry baby. Where did they come from I wonder!?  And as you rightly say throwing AF into the mix, it hurts, so much, such a painful reminder...and yet also a sign that our bodies are doing something they should. 

Molly your pup sounds delicious, how old?! Have been thinking of it myself but don't think my old girl would ever forgive me! 

Thank you all, just for being here   Miss Mayhennn  xx


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## MissMayhem

http://www.infertilitymindbody.com/positivethoughts.htm may be of interest to you. I was ready to dismiss this, be negative, one part that stood out for me was to cut ourselves some slack on the should haves: 'you can't know what you didn't know' - good way of rephrasing hindsight for me, I like it. xx

/links


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## artist_mum

everything crossed for you at the weekend *miss mayhem*. xx


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## MissMayhem

Thank you artist_mum, am dreading it but can't wait for it at the same time.  Just pray to God that whatever it is isn't attached to my ovary so I can be home the same day and still have enough for one cycle after it at least    Hope you're all doing ok.  Molly I finally got around to reading some of Rocking the Life Unexpected yesterday, started it ages back after you mentioned it but I wasn't ready to read it then I don't think - I got to the list of things I was angry about and who I blame and, at first, wrote only one thing....then the floodgates opened and I hadn't been back to it since.  Funnily enough yesterday I was reading just about how we will be ready for it at certain points, I needed to fall apart before I got around to it I think, still don't like the bit where she spoke about how 'hope' is caustic for us though, although I know exactly what she means.....still in denial I think, not ready to give up yet.  SD has been ok-ish through the week, she'll be up tomorrow, along with my two young Godchildren....keep my mind off the op at least, be good to go in for a rest after dealing with the monsters!   Love to you all.xx


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## Molly99

Wow, I have just managed two whole days away from this site, I normally sit on it all day every day. Dear God, let my depression finally be turning  corner  

MissMayhem, how are you doing lovely?  Did you have your operation?  I am hoping and wishing for everything to have gone as well as possible and that you are wrapped up and being spoiled (I really hope that you are being spoiled xxx).  How did it go and how are you feeling?

I know how you feel about the book, it made me feel such despair, anger and need to apportion blame too.  I cried almost every page and kept throwing it down.  I don't feel ready for the moving on bit either but the bits about grief I found useful in a solidarity kind of way.  I think the whole premise of it is learning to live with a life that you don't want, and that sucks.  Who wants to read a book like that?!  I guess that I do but I'm still going down kicking and screaming   xx

Artist, are you puppy free?!  Your house must seem very calm now (if that's possible!).  Little pup here is 4 months old, she's a handful on her own never mind with siblings  
How are you feeling now? I was so pleased to hear that you had a nice birthday.  Yay for Somerset (I'm a Somerset lass, I miss home) xx

How is your weekend Wisp?  I hope that your positive feelings are still going strong xx

How are you both NEJohnson and JoJo? X


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## MissMayhem

Hi everyone, and "Happy Fertility Awareness Week!", my ******** is about to be bombarded with daily updates of facts about infertility, the harsh realities we face and some lovely ee cards, of which one of my favourites is 'the next time you offer to give me your children as a solution to my infertility I will throw your children out a window', something like that anyway! Let's see if the world is as happy to see things like this as they are of shoving their families down our faces eh!! Oooph lot of anger there, must keep an eye on that or I won't be getting any message across!

Op went ahead Molly thanks. Sadly am one ovary less and don't know what the financial damage is yet! Just awaiting test results now to see what it was. He was flabbergasted that the NHS op I had didn't pick up on this as feels it's highly unlikely to have grown as big as it had in the two years since they did laparoscopy. Am feeling relieved and angry at same time. Quite a bit of post op bleeding so taking it easy. DH has been very good so far and, as I had to stay  in overnight, has booked today off work to be with me without any suggestion from me. And still took SD home yesterday when she's off school today! That's the other drawback of having to stay overnight, she knows now I've had an op so there's no way of keeping that from her mother. Hate her knowing things about my life, well, this part of it in particular.

So lovely to think your depression may be lifting molly. Think mine may be a bit too, although think a large part of that may be feeling hope again now op has been done and have possibility of another cycle ahead of us. 

How is everyone else doing?xx


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## Wisp

Hi All!

So sorry to hear you lost an ovary *Miss Mayhem*, very sad, hope you recover quickly from the op. Awful that this could have potentially been spotted earlier?! It is so horrible thinking what might get back to our stepchildren's mums, especially things like this. I always feel they will take some sadistic pleasure in my suffering! Although they don't know anything about our fertility struggles, as we haven't said anything to the children. When the children ask if we'll have a baby, I always say "oh I don't know, not sure if we want to really, we're happy as we are and we have a lot to do on the house!"....hoping that will go back and they'll (the mums) be envious of our freedom!! My own bit of sadism I suppose! Silly really.

Molly, so lovely you have a puppy! I would love one, but I don't think we can really as out of the house for 10 hours a day for work . People keep saying it would be okay, but I don't know. What sort is it? Is it helping you to feel better? My weekend was lovely thank you, child-free this weekend, so it was nice to just be together, we always enjoy that .

Generally I am feeling okay. Not doing any fertility stuff really, but this month my CM has been really really good. The last few months it has seemed non -existant for some reason. The only thing that has changed is that recently I have cut out dairy...who knows if that is a factor. Not sure good CM will make any difference to me though, as it seems to be some sort of LP problem, with this spotting every month before AF.

Miss Mayhem, you asked if I knew the reason for the spotting...sadly not. I do not have any firm evidence for why, very annoying as that seems to mean I can't 'fix it'....

Steppies this weekend we are doing some fun halloween stuff, so I am trying to keep positive about it! Although I know that little bit of dread will still be lurking around somewhere.

Love to all x


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## Molly99

Oh MissMayhem, that is such sad news to hear.  I am so sorry that you have lost an ovary through this, as Wisp said the fact that it could have been spotted earlier must make you feel pretty angry.  Thank god for private treatment, I hope that the bill isn't too shocking but it's amazing that you have it sorted now.  Onward and upward for you I wish, I wish xx

Wisp, yay to a fab weekend and to good CM (ah, remember the days when you didn't really know what good CM looked like   )  I hope that is such a fantastic marker for you.  Tee hee to the little sadists in all of us   xx

Little pup has just zonked out, phew!  Her Mum was a golden lab and her dad a rottweiler - she looks 100% black lab so she's as mixed up as me.  She is an absolute delight, better than any antidepressant that I've ever found anyway    I have little dips, especially when DH holds her like a baby (it's hard not to imagine him when he had his own babies and I still wish that .....).  Anyhoo, she snuffles and grunts just like a little baby and nnnnnnneeeeeeeddddddsssss me  

We have MIL fun this week, her not wanting to see me has led to her staying an hour away now, eventually she will have it her way and everything will revolve around her and everyone but me staying at her house    DH still thinks we'll stay at her house for Christmas, wish there was a 'dreaming' smiley for that one


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## Wisp

Ahhh Molly, she sounds lovely! Yes she does need you and it's so great that you have her!

I have my chickens, which we got recently...when I said we were getting them my mum said "but you can't hug a chicken!", not her most supportive moment, but there you go! It's lovely to have something to look after


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## artist_mum

*misss mayhem* well done on getting through the op, so sorry to hear they did remove one but as you say, now it's a new chapter for you and hope that moving forward this way brings you fresh hope.. and a good result. I know what you mean about not wanting the ex to know your stuff. Difficult to avoid sometimes isn't it.. A tricky part of our lives as step mums, and one that others don't realise is an added 'unpleasantness'. Hey ho.. you've done well to be so good to your DP and SD, it's nice to read that he's taken care of you with this op. hope your recovery goes well.

*molly* your little pup sounds gorgeous and as you say, he needs you! It's a lovely thing to care for an animal and better than any antidepressant so i'm glad you have that little fellow. We have gone from 5 puppies and Mum dog, to 1 puppy and Mum dog! Yes, we kept the little girl and the 4 boys went off to their new homes. They are golden retrievers so very much the Andrex puppies. It has gone from complete madness here to just semi crazy with the 2 dogs. Plus 2 cats. SD is going to be thrilled to bits when she finds we've kept one, i know she will make it hers which is fine by me as the Mum will always be 'my' dog 

I don't know where it leaves me with our baby situation. Still sorting out money. Then we'll see. I think having the 2 dogs just makes me feel I have a future that way if nothing else. but i need a job as well (part time) so just job hunting now that the puppies have left.

*Wisp* the chooks sound like a lovely idea. And ok not so cuddly, but equally not as much work as a dog! I do wonder if i'm mad having these 2 - we are pretty tied by it. We too have steppies for halloween and it's not something i really get into, but as you say, you make the effort. And like you, i don't look forward to it always but like you.. it always works out ok 

anyway, it's late, going to try and get this little Houdini dog into the pen we made. (a dog crate with rabbit-pen fencing around it. She broke out of it every time today and the room isn't dog proof (wires, carpets etc) so she has to sleep in there! We'll see if she breaches the barricade tonight 

 to all

xx


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## Molly99

to the Great Escape Artist_Mum! That's very cute that you kept one, I completely get that having the two makes you feel like you have some kind of future. They just fill a room and your heart don't they.

We are struggling a little with mass hysteria during the night. Our poor oldie has bloodshot eyes in the morning, she is still looking at me in a _why _kind of way!

How are you feeling today MissMayhem? I'm guessing that you must be very sore and uncomfortable, I hope that it is bearable. That was a lovely way of putting it Artist_Mum, you really are starting a new chapter MissMayhem, a clean slate xx

Wisp, absolutely chickens fit the bill too  It is just having something that relies and needs you, it doesn't matter what it is. Plus, lots of lovely protein (eggs - not them - I'm strict veggie so I wouldn't make a tasteless joke there!) is an added bonus 

Big row in Mollyville last night over crazy arrangements for MIL this week and ex arranging something on our weekend with in a 'this is what's happening' and you will conform way. Why can't she just ask us if it's ok? 9 times out of 10 it would be fine for us to rearrange access. I just hate having our life so controlled by another woman. DH gave me the old you knew what you were taking on and I have a choice to leave and have babies another way speech. Woosh, it set me off like a roman candle. I'm clearly only doing well on the surface  Still, at least there's a little step forward occasionally and not just big ones back now.

If only life was as simple as it is in MrMolly's world. Such lack of empathy that our situation is blooming hard and comes with sacrifices that we couldn't possibly know we'd be making. Grrrrr.


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## MissMayhem

Well, you know you're still affected by anaesthesia when you see your own posts on here and have no recollection of writing them!  The IF world's version of a drunken Saturday night text eh!   

How is everyone doing? artist_mum and Molly, those puppies sound so cute!  My friend's dog had a litter recently and I couldn't trust myself to visit in case I came home with one, or many!  My dog would NOT be happy, she is very high maintenance and used to demanding her mother's attention, I would never be forgiven!  How about your chickens wisp?  I guess the more you're around them the more individual their personalities become too!  And it's easier to go away for a weekend, trying to organise something for my dog when we go anywhere, and the state that I get in leaving her (!) is a nightmare!  I know what you mean about leaving them while you're at work Wisp.  I would never be without my girl now but have felt guilty for years at leaving her while I go to work,and if I then used to go out a weekend evening too, the guilt would be almost unbearable.  But, I temper that with the knowledge that she was rescued from a bad home and has had a beautiful life with me, she has been my companion and if I have ever visited places where she could come with me, come she has.  You have to make the decision that is right for you, and right at this time, things change so you could find at some point where it is something that you do feel comfortable doing.

Am sorry to hear that your MIL continues to dictate Molly.  We all know how hard it is having an ex know our private business and it sounds like you have an additional adult in your life where her behaviour would be a little more bearable if she didn't know the hard times you've had.  She sounds like an absolute nightmare.  I'm still waiting for us to have our own MIL thread, I don't think it will be long in coming, especially once mine moves down!   We had a shock last night as DH finally responded to her texts/calls (she had been haranguing him the week before my op but he didn't answer as thought that she just wanted him to do something for her as that's the only time he hears from her usually) and she said she didn't want anything, just wanted to know if we were ok!  If I wasn't already out of action you could've knocked me down with a feather!  That's a first. In the four years that we have been going through all of this not ONCE has she asked how we are or offered any support, in fact all she's done is add more stress to the equation with her entitled behaviour and tantrums.  There's a thread elsewhere on MIL's Molly (think you saw it) where the poor girl is having an horrendous time of it, made me be grateful that mine isn't quite as bad.  Keep being kind to yourself molly.  You ARE doing well, but you are still grieving massively, of course things will set you off, it's all still very raw and is of fundamental importance to you.  Trite comments that people make or don't make are going to trigger off all the background emotion as well, it's not just the presenting factor of the time that upsets us. So, you be nice to Molly, that's an order from us! 

I've been thinking about what you said wisp about the exes and not wanting them to know.  I have a feeling almost of panic when I think about SD's mother knowing my business.  I often wonder where it comes from but this past few days have thought it may be coming from a place of control.  We, collectively, have so little control over our fertility and are so often at the mercy of waiting lists or expensive clinics etc.  I think I,  personally anyway, am just so desperate to have some little bit of control over things that it magnifies my emotions whenever I think that she knows something about me.  She already has what I need, let me at least have some control over who knows my intimate business or not. Something like that for me anyway, I know I'm lucky that I don't have the maliciousness that you have to deal with.  My biggest issue with the ex is how she is as a mother and the damage she is causing to SD, luckily I don't have anything directed to me personally too.

I agree that you put it beautifully artist_mum, that this will be a new chapter, I so hope so.  I'm clinging to the hope that what was removed has been affecting my chances of conception but am aware that that's a bit of wishful thinking on my part too.  I've been emotional at how DH has been this time around, it's been so lovely to be looked after properly for once, it was all I have ever needed from him throughout this whole process.  I'm scared to say it out loud but I wonder whether he's actually beginning to 'get it', finally. Time will tell. It sure is nice feeling special and important to him though, it's something I've become unaccustomed to over these past few years.

I'm still blasting my ******** page with posts for infertility week.  Am surprised at the people who've messaged me that have also had issues, but am also wondering whether I'm doing the right thing as some people are commenting as if they know exactly what I mean (when I know that they don't) and it's annoying me a bit!  Think I need to find a place where I can talk about that, it's raising issues for me that I'm not comfortable with.  So sometimes I'm proud that I'm being open about things, and other times I want to take it back and keep it 'just for me', that control thing again I think!

Anyway, once again I've rambled.  Hope you're all doing ok and that you survive your Halloween festivities, we are SD free this weekend as she has 'plans', always better than the panics she's been having though so can live with that.  

Hugs to you all, MissM xx


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## Wisp

Hi All,

Nice to hear how you are doing MissM.  Sounds like your dog is lucky to have such a lovely life with you now!  I would love a little dog, or two...like you say maybe one day I could work a bit less and be home more, I would LOVE that!  The chickens are great, its amazing watching them and getting to know their individual personalities.

Molly, I am veggie too!! Well nearly vegan really, as I don't eat dairy either, apart from our own chicken eggs!  Have you had 'fertility experts', trying to get you to eat meat!? My acupuncturist kept going on about it, but I just couldn't do it.  I get lots of protein from other things, but she wouldn't accept it.  Also I wasn't veggie when all this started and it didn't make any difference then!

Artist-mum - hope the halloween jollies go well, I have my outfit, hee hee!  I have had  sore throat all week though ad don't really feel in the mood. Holding out for tomorrow when DH is taking SS and SD out so I can have a rest!

Glad it's Friday, bye for now x


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## MissMayhem

Hey girls hope you're all doing ok and have enjoyed the weekend.  Wisp I'm having puppy envy too now, you're not alone!, have just watched 101 Dalmations with SD and want one so bad, even tried to convince myself earlier that my furry old girl wouldn't be too jealous, I know that's nonsense though!  Didn't realise you girls were veggie; I'm kind of a hybrid, I don't like meat and can't get over the animal thing but am really limited with my diet also.  A combination of a controlling 'real' father at meal times when I was a child and a mother who had a really limited budget to get us things from; has resulted in me having real issues with food.  I've been told that I need to have more meat in my diet, thought I was doing well by getting my protein from Quorn products but then the Healer I used to see told me that this was mushroom derivative, which is fungus, which is high in oestrogen apparently.  Puzzles and obstacles wherever we go eh!  Anyway, stuffed chocolate today, sure there's no chemical oestrogens in that, although know I'm on a slippery chocolate slope so have to be careful with that.....from tomorrow!   Hope Sunday is kind to you all, much love MissM xx


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## Molly99

Morning, morning, morning  

How are you all today?  I woke up in such a lovely mood, even after cleaning up poop and wee (panicky pup's 5am regular), not wearing enough and getting soaked on our walkies and it being Monday.

Oh MissMayhem, watching puppy programmes when you're puppy broody is soooo dangerous    That sounded so lovely though, cuddles, film and chocolate, what more could a recuperating girl ask for.  I'm so pleased that your DH is still being super attentive and wonderful too    We thought that our older dog would really struggle with the pup, she is very independent, isn't good with other dogs and has huge issues from before I rescued her.  It's blown us away, I'm sat watching them cuddle and snore at the moment  

It's lovely to chat with fellow veggies! It is an enormous challenge to be a veggie and go through fertility issues, never mind the getting enough protein issue, most veggie alternatives have high oestrogen and soya.  I've been a veggie since birth, I had a lot of allergies and this may have been one because I refused it and then found out very early what it was and refused it even more.  Coming from a family of farmers and big meat eaters it has always been a challenge but it doesn't bother me one bit.  DH's family were slaughtermen and butchers too - I think it's a big part of them not trusting me, people can be very weird about it morally as well as feel disturbed because of your decision 

Our little local Tescos has become an absolute protein goldmine lately, it's just making it so much easier.  I've always had very light periods and thin lining, I think that protein is a big part of it for me and I'm obsessed with it now.  I've just found Nature Valley Protein Granola which is delicious and has a whopping 11g of protein in just a tiny bowl, that with a danio yoghurt and I'm well on my way  

How are you Artist_Mum?  Thinking of you, have things got a little easier at home?

Well, the weekend here was saved in the end.  After DH's epic cleaning the house mood and strop in Tescos we had a collosal row in which we dragged up all manner of the past    It's just so close to the surface and too easy to revert back to old stuff but we seem to get over it quicker rather than spending weeks not talking.    Anyhoo, Sunday ended up being lovely and we seem to be ok  

I'm having a last ditch desperado attempt to do everything I can to naturally TTC and started taking 50mg of DHEA last week.  Scary stuff but no side effects yet   xx


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## artist_mum

hi everyone

well that's funny to have so many veggies on here! My DP eats fish but no meat so we have a predominantly veggie diet. You're right *molly* about people feeling disturbed about the choice not to eat meat - my family I'm ashamed to say, were less than kind to him about not eating meat. I think it is indeed because they don't want to question it themselves so make out that there is something odd with non meat eaters. how silly! It's a very sensible choice in my opinion and I've definitely gained from having far less meat in my diet ( i just have the odd bit of 'fairly treated'/'organic' meat now and again) and have really come to enjoy some of the meat substitutes. Really love the Linda McCartney Mozzarella Burgers - delicious!

*miss mayhem* i know it's hard to resist the puppy pull  they are cute. they are also very tying and a lot of work! And my older dog does look at me at times as if to say "what about the way it used to be, just you and me and nice long walks" We're still not 100% on keeping her as I wonder if it's really a baby i want and that this will make it even harder to sort out another try (financially and being tied to here instead of going away for another go). Some friends are having her this sunday and DP and I are so excited to be able to go out for a day together! So, it does have its drawbacks&#8230;

*wisp* hope your halloween went OK and you enjoyed the steppy time. Ours was fine - apart from a fall out with my DPs sister who insisted on taking SD out on the ONE day where I have got a new puppy and wanted just one chance to spend time the 4 of us together.. I don't know.. if it isn't the ex telling me when and what they are doing, it is now his family. Perhaps more of a misunderstanding in hindsight but it made me cross and i ended up telling her 'this isn't a hotel' 

anyway it's late and i'm up supervising late play with the Houdini Pup. She seems to stay in the pen now (i put her in there every time she sleeps as I have to keep her separate from Mum Dog as she still wants to suckle and in any case they need to be independent before I can leave them together or i will end up with a puppy that can't be left alone). So mostly all good this end thank you and hope you ladies are getting on ok with the week - cold isn't it!

Big  to all

Artist Mum x


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## MissMayhem

Hey everyone, lovely to read your updates and see how you've been getting on, I've been AWOL for a while with intermittent internet issues; alliteration, haven't done that since school! 

*artist_mum*, I LOVE the Houdini puppy label!  Made me smile when I was coming here to vent so, thank you, for unknowingly calming me down and making me smile.  Did you make your decision about her staying or not yet? That's got to be so hard! I had my girl spayed as soon as I had her as know I would have been a nightmare if she'd had a litter. Nevermind the 'cat lady' I would have been the 'dog lady' (those stereotypes again Molly!). I know exactly what you mean about being tied though, I find that (most) people are much more willing to babysit a child over a furry friend. I got upset looking at my girl the other night thinking about her op, I felt guilty at the time as she was sore afterwards but I thought it was for her own good; now I wonder if she feels about puppies the way I feel about babies and am crushed with guilt. Silly I know but you never know. 

*Molly*, you have more of my admiration. Veggies, slaughtermen and butchers. God, I couldn't survive that! I was almost in tears at a friend's the other night and had to block my ears when she started talking about something 'foody'. I'm so funny, I get really distressed; I eat chicken for the protein but can so easily be put off for months. Wouldn't it be insane if your eating preferences really do make a difference to their opinion of you! But, then, makes sense at the same time. We are funny things aren't we, people!  

I'm going to be ignorant again *Wisp* and ask what the LP means? I really had never considered spotting to be an issue with conception, again naive of me, as I guess it's an indicator of what's going on with our linings. I don't know whether to be reassured or worried that my spotting only started after my first lap. AF is five days overdue for me, I don't know what will happen with it now my ovary has gone as I ovulated a few days before surgery and think it was from the one that they removed and now feel like I'm ovulating all over again! I hope your body has been behaving for you a little?

Had I only posted a few days earlier all would have been well in Mayhemland but this weekend has been tough. SD announced on Friday that she wants to go on a school trip....to New York! Going to cost in the region of £1100, with spending money for food, and shopping on Fifth Avenue on top of that! We still don't know what the op has cost but know that we're going to need to find at least £2000 for a cycle which is a huge struggle for us as there's hardly anything left to save each month.

Her mother told her she'd ask her grandfather. I warned SD immediately that we can't afford it, so she shouldn't build her hopes up as her grandfather may refuse to pay. Yesterday she was all excited as her mother has said, yes, she can go. DH was confident this meant that she had sorted the finances, but I knew different! Fast forward to this evening where he is barraged with calls and texts (as he didn't answer the calls knowing what they would be about!) asking 'are we going halves for this trip?'. She hasn't worked for almost four years, lives at home as she has been evicted from every property she has lived in; she doesn't even pay rent or have to buy food and even school uniforms are 'halves' with us and the grandfather. Her answer to SD should, in my opinion, have been 'really sorry but I can't afford it' particularly as there are cheaper trips on offer. Instead she has told her she can go and is now trying to get DH to pay half! She should rephrase and ask 'are you, my father and MissM going to foot the bill?'

DH is now feeling guilty and trying to find solutions, one of which is 'you will have had your _one_ go by next year so we can take out a loan for her to go' or we can save the money that at the moment we are saving for treatment. We disagree on just having this cycle or (my view) that we save as much as we can so I can try DE cycle if this one doesn't work. I am devastated. I understand the pull he will have, of course he's going to want to help her to go. And, ordinarily, of course he should contribute towards things like this for her. But contribute with her mother, and towards things that have been discussed and agreed by anyone who has financial responsibility for SD! I would never make a decision with my mother about something and then just dictate to someone else that they will also be paying for it, regardless of who it was! It's the same old story that we all face, being controlled by people that aren't part of our lives! 

DH refused to take out a loan for us and has made his feelings very clear that if this fails we will NOT be borrowing more money for treatment. I am so angry that SD's mother made this decision without even consulting him. As far as I'm concerned if she's made the decision for her to go, she can sort out payment for it. If she had asked we would have said that as much as we would love her to have this opportunity, it's something that we simply CANNOT afford. Who in their right mind would sign their child up for a trip they know they have no way of funding other than Daddy1 and Daddy2?!

I am absolutely furious and think this is going to cause major issues. DH and I have our own 'spending money' each month (as was a nightmare trying to get him to budget). I've already failed to get him to relinquish any of his 'allowance' to save for treatment so am resigned that I will be saving my own 'allowance' and any few spare £s from our joint account (and there usually aren't many as they go on supplements). I've told him that I think he should be telling his ex that she has made this decision without even consulting him so it's up to her to fund it and that if he chooses not to do that and wants to pay for it he can save his own allowance and pay from that as I am doing everything I can to save for treatment. Even then it would still smart a bit that he would refuse to give a penny for treatment but would give it up for his daughter. I'm not saying that he shouldn't provide for her, of course he should, it just hurts that he doesn't give the same importance to creating our baby. I always prioritise our treatment, and I usually prioritise his daughter, usually if I can do _anything_ for her, I will. But I can't give up my hopes of my own child for her.

Does anyone think I'm being totally unreasonable with this? Please be completely honest. I am completely torn as I know that she's his child, she's already here, and I feel cruel for denying her anything she would enjoy. Then I think that a trip to New York when you are 13, whilst wonderful, is not a necessity. I would love her to be able to go and if we weren't so crippled financially and already worrying about where we're going to recoup the money I had to spend on this op, would love to just pay, or at least significantly help, for her to go. But I cannot shelve my own plans, for my own child, my own future.

I've tried over the years to instill in SD 'you won't always get what you want, but you will always get what you need'. Her mother neglects her emotional needs (and often her physical ones) yet when it comes to something like this is insistent that she goes knowing that there is NO way that she can afford it and, as most of us already know through the harsh reality of dealing with our steppies mothers, she absolutely will not give a STUFF that we can't afford it either.

I am so angry with her. My heart is racing even now. And I am so scared. Scared that DH is not going to stand up to her. Scared at the financial implications this has for us. And scared at the impact this has for our future if he prioritises this.

Sorry for the doom and gloom; think I'd best change my forum name! 

Hugs to you all and please be honest with your responses, don't say what you think I need to hear, you are all entrenched in similar/worse difficulties so am hoping you'll be able to help me gain a bit of objectivity. xxx


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## Vickytick

Sorry I'm gate crashing a bit here having read your posts. I can totally empathise as I have to deal with the ex from hell. In fact although I'm truly blessed(despite health issues) to have my daughter finally it's actually made my husband's ex worse. She's been a nightmare since the birth of our daughter stoping access, turning up uninvited round the house, making allegations of mental,abuse against me towards my ss, constantly texting my dh, calling the police on her partner for agressive behaviour.

I totally digress I just struggle to find likeminded ladies. *missmayhem* I don't think you are being wrong at all for what it's worth. Ironically we have to fight our corner for our babies (real or future ones). You are entitled to say no and quite frankly imo a 13 year old will get a chance again to go to NY I know adults who've never been. The mother was wrong but she knew what she was doing as she knows your Dh will hate to say no. I tell my ss (he'd nearly 9) that he can't have what he wants divorce doesn't mean double of everything and life is tough we don't get what we want. I'd like a alot of things but don't get them. When he works he can get what he wants. My big thing is that he goes on 2/3 holidays a year with his mum but we only take him in England and save the foreign holiday for just me and dh (now dd as well). I stand by my thoughts that he will not have more than my daughter. She will only get one holiday, if that, a year so why should he go abroad more than us.

I think you are right your treatment should be a priority and taking a loan out so a child can go to NY is unfair on you when you are saving. Mind you what is the need for schools to go to such places these days. We went to France...

Again sorry for interrupting I just wanted to let you know you aren't wrong. Btw ladies my dog has been a godsend during my infertility we got him as something for me to 'love'. Wouldn't be without him but agree they are a massive tie.

Best of luck girls. Xx


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## deedee_spark

Hi MissMayhem,

Saw you extended version after replying to the other forum.

It is absolutely cr*p. Feel really bad for you. So much pressure on you as a couple. It's really hard, but children shouldn't go without just because their parents are divorced (though rarely do I think they do without - my SS has had 3 cruises and gets to go on holiday at least twice per year). But a trip to New York? Wow, I am wondering how many parents - fullstop- are able to afford that. How many adults get to go to New York? What's wrong with a field trip in dorset (like what I got)? Like I said in my other post, the only thing I can suggest is sitting down with DH and writing your expenditure down. It may shock your DH. I don't think it is fair to talk of 'one go,' supposing that was just a bad month - sperm or eggs weren't great quality. Why does he dictate one month of trying? How about a joint decision? The one thing I have realised about being in your 30s/40s is that men get away with murder. When we want a baby, we'll all put up with anything! It's horrible. v   But, FIGHT for your future child (in a non-aggressive way as your body need calm to conceive). Do not be dictated to. Do what it takes to have a baby. 

Are you still TTC naturally? Have you had all the tests done (ureaplasma, mycoplasma)? I've just been diagnosed with ureaplasma - a bug that causes infertility in some people. I would have had it years and NHS don't generally test and neither do some private fertility clinics. If you have this bug (apparently 70% of us do), a course of cheap antibiotics can clear it up and improve fertility. Telling everyone at the moment to get the test!  

I don't think you are being unreasonable. I think when it comes to money, DH should discuss any large financial decisions with you before agreeing. You're a team. This is how it works in theory, not sure any of us have that in reality. I am sure my DH hands over money that I am not aware of...   

I am sorry you are struggling like this, and I don't have much useful stuff to say. I would just try to get some clarity back but taking care of yourself today, putting you first. Then when you feel calmer, you'll need to go through finances with DH - try to knock some sense into him. But like I said, don't give up.

Try to stay positive. You've just had an operation so your body may reset itself and become more fertile. 

Sending you a huge amount of    and a Boeing factory sized amount of baby dust to you.

xx


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## CrazyHorse

MissMayhem, you are being completely reasonable regarding your SD's proposed school trip. Her mum had no business telling her she'd be able to go without sorting the finances first. Your SD will be disappointed, but she'll survive -- and maybe also learn by example the importance of not making commitments that you don't actually have the ability to keep. You're quite right that if your DH wants to fund this, he should do so out of his discretionary spending money, as this is a purely discretionary expense. Frankly, I wouldn't be keen on sending a 13 y.o. to NYC without at least one parent anyway!


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## deedee_spark

I second Crazyhorse. There is no way my child is going to go to NY without me! I'd be scared for her safety.


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## MissMayhem

Oh girls, thank you so much, am crying now! The relief of being understood is overwhelming. Spoke to my own mother earlier who is very calm and objective but is also outraged and agrees that her mother should never have agreed knowing full well she wouldn't be contributing a penny to it; she has told me to try and keep calm and to stick to my guns. She also reminded me how as a 13 year old myself I didn't even tell her about a school skiing trip to France as she was a single parent and I knew that my real father wouldn't put his hand in his pocket to help; my SD had a choice of going and selecting whichever trip she was interested in, NYC, Italy or Scotland. I hate being unnecessarily nasty about her mother but she's one of life's freedloaders, out for what she can get for as little effort as possible, that's my opinion anyway. Have tried hard to instil different in SD, the same as you *vickytick* (welcome by the way  ) but clearly it hasn't sunk in. I agree with you all on everything, I've not even been myself, I think it's ridiculous that schools arrange such 'outings' for children.

I'm going to get some sleep as haven't slept all night thinking about it, and feeling so angry that DH can't see how manipulative her mother has been. She fails on a daily basis to meet her child's emotional needs yet tries to make up for it by 'buying' her affection, trouble is she doesn't even use her own money to buy it. In fairness to DH *deedee* he hasn't made a decision without me, he hasn't replied to her yet. The pressure of the 'one go' is that he refuses to allow us to spiral into any more debt to conceive. He doesn't realise that if there is any spare cash it is going towards treatment, he thinks it's going to be a straightforward one-off cost, doesn't realise that there are a zillion tests that we have never even had (including the ones you mention) that we may need to explore. But he has been very clear that he will only commit to paying for one cycle as we 'can't afford it'. Well, my argument is if we can 'afford' as you say *crazyhorse*, a completely non-essential, discretionary trip that money will be better spent elsewhere.

In the middle of all of this though what's also lovely is hearing you all say that you wouldn't be keen on sending a 13 year old to NYC 'alone' anyway. It is so nice to not feel abnormal when thinking about the protection of our children, of any children. SD always slips up and takes off the  eye roll that her mother does about me whenever she has told her about something I do to keep her safe, apparently I was even 'over the top' for being unhappy she was allowed into town _completely_ alone (not even with a group of friends)...when she was 9! Ridiculous aren't I! 

Thank you again, so much. Am calmer now, a little!  xx


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## Molly99

No, no, no honey, you are not being unreasonable.  I would be fuming about how this has come about (not consulting for such a huge cost is a huge issue) as well as petrified at where the money will come from.

How amazing, but how ridiculously irresponsible for the school to lay on a trip to New York in these economic times to start with.  Good grief, we used to go to the local national park and love it.  I was just speaking to a lady at work last week whose daughter wants to go on the school trip to Iceland costing £2500.  We're talking for a week here, that's a holiday for everyone in the summer holidays....or a potential cycle.

Grrr, it makes me so angry.  What you said about SD not always getting what she wants but always getting what she needs is just so spot on, I love that phrase.  There has to come a time in every child's life when, yes it would be amazing, but they have to understand the value of money and the enormity of making financial decisions.  OK, so they don't need an economics lecture but they should understand how much a thousand pounds is and what it means to the family - the whole family to have to be able to commit to spending that much.

Right now, at where we are in life, and especially with your huge bill looming, I think that you are completely within your rights to be very upset about this and to need your DH to discuss with you absolutely everything about this before he makes any decision.

No wonder you are peed lovely.  Money is one of the biggest worries and step family gripes.  I absolutely hate DH's ex sending the usual text about I've just said yes to this so I want your half.  To give my DH his due, he does tend to say no, that she has to consult him before agreeing or she can have it in installments.  It's one of the things that he is pretty good about now, though we've had some absolute humdingers to get here  

In absolute honesty, no one would make a financial commitment in any other part of their life without serious consideration, budgeting before hand or some very serious conversations about what can be offset / what other commitments need to be honored first etc.  Somehow these all go out of the window in step families and that off balance gets played on and abused.  

Seriously, I would love to think of my steppies having such a wonderful experience but right now, with our finances and desperate need elsewhere I would be pushing the no camp.  SD doesn't need to go to New York, it would be amazing but it's a terrible time financially so no.

Sending you the hugest of   , you really don't need this right now lovely.

Vickytick, you're not gatecrashing at all.  It's lovely that you've found it here, it's a really safe place where we all understand how hard it is sometimes xx

Hello all of you wonderful ladies.  

ArtistMum, how goes houdini pup?  Pup here is settling now and just adorable, her energy levels just never wane  

Wisp, how are you lovely?


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## deedee_spark

The test I mention is so frustrating! NHS should test us especially as there is a risk to pregnancy should you test positive. They say 70% of people have it so not point in testing. But just like some people can smoke until they're 90 and then get run over, others smoke briefly and get cancer - we all respond differently to toxins. Bacteria doesn't have too many symptoms apart from sore pelvic area, frequent peeing, spotting AF, and infertility. It can cause some internal damage though. Not sure what in UK clinics test. USA seem to test readily. ARGC and DR Gorgy test but I think you have to go through treatment with ARGC or have a consultation with Gorgy (adding to your cost). Zita West also test:http://www.zitawest.com/assisted-fertility/assisted-fertility-consultations/our-assisted-fertility-programme/sexual-infections/

We sent AF to Greece for the test but also went for the hiddenC (which is a bit controversial). Total cost was £209. Prescription charge for 4 prescriptions (2X for DH and I) £29. Just having the ureaplasma and mycoplasma test will make the test cost less than this. If you ask questions on the immune pages and see Agates page for more info.

Sorry, hijacked the post with my rant - just trying to highlight there are bugs causing issues and we're not getting tested. BTW, people have got natural BFP's after the standard antibiotic treatment.

Glad you're feeling a bit calmer now. Glad DH hasn't made the decision without you. It's great that you care - why would any parent want to allow their child into town alone?! Bug hugs.

xx


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## artist_mum

*miss mayhem* Absolutely I second every post that's gone on here in response to your distress. We have the same thing (albeit a lower cost holiday). DP gets a text demanding half the money for a trip away on Isle of Wight. How nice it would be to be asked "how do you feel about sharing the cost of a trip?" But no. It is promised to the child and DP is told to send the money. Very very frustrating at the rudeness and expectation placed upon him - and the child is then told that dad is unreasonable.  I had a chat with SD and said to her, if something comes up you need to ask both mum and dad. Not just mum. I think she understood. Needless to say in our case she is going (and i know it's not so expensive, it's the principle of being TOLD to pay). Generally speaking I do think children are very spoilt these days - i mean, a trip to NY at 13 years old&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.  Let's just hope they all manage to get amazing jobs to fund the life they being brought up accustomed to!

So you have my MASSIVE sympathy and I understand that horror of being so bloody angry that it keeps you up at night etc etc. So very hard to take when these women behave this way.

PLEASE don't let it ruin another moment of your life. And try to stay calm with DP. He must be furious himself and feel so manipulated. Horrid.

*vickytick* congrats on baby! And yeah, dogs are great company, no doubt about it

*molly* glad to hear pup is settling. Same here. She still goes over the top of the pen (!) but we put her in there to give her the message to settle down when I go out. Seems to work and I think we probably will keep her..

hi to *deedee*, *Wisp* and *crazyhorse* (nice name!) and anyone else reading

xx


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## JoJo7

Miss mayhem - just wanted to reiterate the support that you've had already.  You are definitely not being unreasonable and it just highlights once again the fact that ex partners often make the decisions without discussing with our DH or us and it's the kids that end up getting caught in the middle.  We have been in similar positions in the past and it's so rotten that if we put our foot down then we totally come across as being the tight fisted ones when in reality that is not the case at all.  It's sad that our partners often feel like the on hand cash cow but are excluded from the decision making process and just expected to foot the bill.  My DH had had enough and stood his ground on a similar situation - it was tough at the time and I so wanted to just give in for the sake of keeping the peace but thankfully he was right and it really has made the ex think twice now as she knows that he won't simply just hand over the money no questions asked.  Like I said - it was tough at the time but has since paid dividends.

My situation (for those that can remember as it was a wee while ago now) has calmed down a lot.  DH said to go down the CSA route but confirmed that all the additional financial support that we currently provide would stop and that the ex would simply need to budget from the payments that would be agreed by CSA. It turns out that she thought that my wages would also be taken into account and the figure that she thougshewould get was waaaaay off the mark.  Needless to say the status quo remains the same as she has realised that she is actually better off as things are at present. Silly greedy woman!

Anyhow - best wishes to you all and enjoy your furry friends! My crazy mutt is currently curled up beside me and I would be lost without him! He is my unwavering ally in this often crazy life and I love him to the moon and back 🐶🐶🐶 

Hugs to you all
Jojo xx


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## deedee_spark

JoJo7 - She thought that you were going to pay for her children from your salary! How unfair and greedy. Does that mean when you have a child, she gets to pay you? 

I think it did used to be the case that the new wife's salary would be taken into account but then fortunately someone from the Law saw sense. 

Glad you sorted out your financial situation. Really pleased you and your DH stood up to her! 

My DH's ex is very quiet about money these days... She is probably dreading the day I get pregnant. Hopefully, it will be soon and there will be 2!

Positivity affirmations in the morning are working for me. AF arrive today and no tear! Yay. 

So being positive: I am sending each and every person who reads this a tun of love and 99999999999 tuns of baby dust!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## MissMayhem

*deedee_spark* you have made me smile with your '99999999999 tuns of baby dust'! No mean feat today so, thank you!  And thanks again to you all for your replies and unwavering support!

I wavered a bit overnight as the guilt got to me. If I feel guilty God knows what it feels like for DH. But this decision is wrong in so many ways. Told DH that we are not helping SD to grow into a responsible adult, she will inherit her mother's attitude that if you play the helpless and/or tantrum card you will get what you want in life. Of course I want her to have a lovely life and the NY experience is a lovely one, but hardly once in a lifetime these days, she will have other opportunities. I've told DH, rightly or wrongly, to consider his priorities. Only a few weeks back I was contacting schools as we were _very_ close to having SD live with us as her care is often so poor. I have worked with families who refuse to see that children suffer emotional harm, when emotionally neglected or ignored, because they have everything monetary they want. Told DH that if we bow to this pressure we are playing their game and guilty as much as they of ignoring her emotional needs. She is only going to learn that money buys love and happiness; what damage that will do when she enters the real world.

I've done the same as you many times *artistmum* and told SD straight out that we can't pay for this trip. She said "it's ok Grandad's paying, Mum's going to ask him" & "it's only about £1000" so her mother's ways are already there I fear, she already assumed she would go. Grandfather agreed and the next thing you know ex is demanding money saying "are we going halves". Makes me laugh! SD goes away with Mum (paid for by Granddad!) we kit her out and give her spending money. SD comes away with us? She gets nothing off her mother, not even a £5! She did once buy her a pair of shoes for £3 and said she couldn't give more as she lives "in poverty"!!! I can just imagine her paying us maintenance if SD did live with us. What a joke! She would probably hardly ever see her! God I am so angry with her that's the crux of this. I would still be angry even if I had a child as, as you said artistmum there is just no consideration or courtesy offered to us and our husbands. Perhaps they are still angry at the breakups? Think *wisp* said that before (was it you?) Either way wanted to mention you, have you had these tests deedee is speakimg of? Thought of the spotting?

*Jojo* welcome back! Lovely to hear from you, am glad that things have settled for you after a tough time. It's incredible how some women behave isn't it! SD's mother is the exact same. He lost his job and was out of work for 8 weeks, she went ballistic and demanded 'her' money saying MissM still works she can pay, we'd only been together a few months then! When he tried to explain that I was having to pay for everything she said 'not my problem' and happily took every penny of his job seekers money, he sank into depression after that. I know he absolutely has financial responsibility for his child but it would be nice if everyone could be reasonable.

And the dreaded bill has arrived, double what we budgeted. So, I'm sorry but, my priority is finding money for treatment. I'll be selling up and seeking a sperm donor at this rate, no joke! And now we have to go food shopping *molly*!! 

Apologies no personals, battery dying. Love to you all.xxx


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## Molly99

Evening ladies  

Welcome back JoJo, I am so pleased to read that your situation has settled a little.  That's fantastic news, always nice to read positive stories    We had a similar CSA situation, and ended up paying less.  Women like to use the CSA as a threat, I just can't get my head around it but I am so pleased that they can't always play the system.

ArtistMum, yay to keeping houdini pup!  I hope that you are well.

Deedee, loving your positive affirmations    Absolutely, it will be two    You sound so proactive in seeking out ways of coping and what next for your treatment, it's great to read and I always learn so much from you.

MissMayhem, go you for not wavering too much.  It is so hard isn't it, we want the best for our steppies too but it has to be within reason and you are so right to help your DH to realise that there are some huge priority issues here.  I'm so sorry to hear about your bill, that must have been a horrible shock.  It's tough but at our age (urgh!) we don't have the luxury of time and your treatment certainly can't wait for a luxury trip.  Well done you xx

Grrrrs from me tonight.  DH has been an absolute bear with a sore head.  He doesn't do poorly and just becomes exceptionally grumpy, monosyllabic and just a bit of a jerk to be honest.  It's just a cold, it's rotten but no matter what I do I can't raise a smile or even a pleasant word    

There was something stupid on tv, you know the ones when people go on and on about 'that will be one for my grandchildren' yada yada when they don't even have a child yet.  It just got to me and I said just a few words about finding it so upsetting, never being a grandmother is starting to feel as devastating to me as never being a mum.  DH's response?  'It will be fine, these things are never as bad as you make out'.  A simple (but stupid) insensitive comment but it really got to me.  He just trivializes the whole thing so I'll just shut up.  I've never managed to say that anything worries or hurts me without it ending up in a blazing row.  Sad to say that this one went the same way  

At the slightest mention of me worrying about my future or wanting a baby, he is all guns blazing angry and threatening body language.  I've had to ask him to step back a few times  

The worst thing about it all is that he says that I need to know what I'm like and that it is all me.  This whole infertility business turns everyone involved into monsters


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## deedee_spark

Trying to make this a quick response because I AM going to get out the house today and do my work else where. Coffee shop most probably. Had my first panic attack for a few weeks over night... Almost forgotten how overwhelming the attacks are. Kept having to tell myself that this feeling will pass. Think it has been because I have been obsessing over the damned ureaplasma/mycoplasma bug I have, plus AF arrive, plus my brother said, 'Our baby is even kicking now.' Hate being jealous of my adorable brother. I'll be back on my positive affirmation tracks in a moment. A few weeks ago I saw this Opera clip where a women who lived in deepest Africa and who married at 11, had 4 children, no money on the earth and no eduction, buried a piece of paper containing her dream of getting a PHD in her back garden. About 10 years later, she got her PHD from studying at a USA university. Interestingly, Jim Carey did a similar thing when trying to get into Hollywood (he wrote himself a cheque for $5 million). So desperate that I am thinking of writing my baby dream on a piece of paper and burying it...       

Missmayhem - cr*p about the bill. Maybe turn to Ebay? It's a bit of a pain because it takes so much time. But if you have junk to sell... Glad you are not wavering on the NY trip though. Use safety if you want a reason to get out of it. 

Molly99 - I don't think most men are built for dealing with female emotions or illnesses. It is infuriating when our pain is dismissed. I've yet to find an answer to this. Sometimes I wonder if women rely on men too much for emotional support. In the good ole days, we had female family member to rely on, but now, it's our hunter gatherer DH's. It's just a shame men can't learn to say, 'Come here, let me give you a hug,' whenever we get a little sad. 

ArtistMum, Jojo - Have a lovely day. And once again, a million tuns of love and billions X infinity tuns of baby dust to you all. 

x


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## JoJo7

Good morning folks 😊 I'm off work for a fortnight and this is my second week hence having the opportunity to actually reply and keep in touch, it's lovely.

Molly - I wonder if your partners reaction is a male pride defence thing? Do you wonder if he might feel less of a man for not being able to easily give you the one thing that you crave more than anything else in the world and therefore whenever you might get upset about it or want to talk about it he gets all defensive and minimises the importance of it all to make himself feel better? It's just a thought - I find it more helpful to deal with things if I can figure out where the behaviour stems from (which is sometimes impossible I know) I guess it could be a lot of possibilities and you know your DH better than anyone 😊 and they say women are complicated.....😮

Miss mayhem I can totally 100% relate to your feelings of guilt.  I often feel like I carry a huge amount of guilt around with me in relation to our blended family.  I am constantly wondering if the children are getting enough of our attention, money, time and I never quite feel satisfied enough that everyone is okay.  I wasn't even the reason that my DH and his ex split up (we didn't meet till a few years later) so I've no idea where my feelings of guilt come from.  Add into the mix some emotional game playing from the ex And I'm often so tied up in knots I end up doing without extra things like holidays and nights out for fear of how it might look to the children and their mother.  Luckily DH is quite good at making me see the clearer picture.

Deedee I can also relate to your feelings of anxiety and panic attacks and I think it's wonderful that you are working through it and are managing to go out to work in a different environment today - go girl! I also think writing down your dream and burying does not sound crazy at all - it sounds like a lovely way to take control of a situation that is so often out with our control.  And please do t beat yourself up about feeling a bit jealous of your wonderful brother.  I love my sister more than I can say but I'll e honest and say that I pray I fall pregnant before she does as I know there's a good chance that I will have feelings that I will let be able to control and I dread it before it happens - you're not alone.

Hope everyone else is well  take care 
Jojo xx


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## Molly99

Deedee, I'm so sorry to hear about your panic attack.  They are such horrible things, it sounds like such a lot going on, no wonder you are feeling overwhelmed lovely.  I love the idea about burying a little message, what a positive thing.  I've read quite a lot about writing everything down and then burning it as a symbol of release but I've never got around to it.  I might just do that now and then write something really positive and bury it by my special plants.  See you are inspiring 

JoJo, I hope that you're on leave for something wonderful.  I think that guilt is something that we all struggle with, I came on the scene years after DH and the ex split but part of being a stepmother is having a little of the blame it seems.  I'm glad that your DH is great at helping you with this x

Morning MissMayhem   , I've sent you all sorts of weirdness this morning - don't be scared! 

Love to you ArtistMum, Vickytick and Wisp xxx


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## deedee_spark

Thank you lovely people. Home now for lunch, and with your encouragement I have written a letter. Going to wrap it up and bury it in a place where we are planting new shrubs. I decided to address it to 'Maker.' I'm not religious and didn't want to reference one particular religion. Written in a bit of a rush, but guess the Maker just wants me to get to the point. Decided to write it on this forum too, just in case the Maker is online...  

Here goes:

Dear Maker,
I want a baby, a child, a boy, a girl. I want to love and hold the baby. I want to make them healthy, kind and to be a good force in this world. I will be good, kind, unconditional loving mother. My husband will be a generous, loving and understanding father. We deserve to be parents. We want to be parents together. I trust that you will do whatever you can to guide us down the path to our children. Sending you all the love I am capable of giving. 

xxxxx

I could sign it 'A nutter,' but I have actually put our names.

Interestingly, I feel completely free after writing that letter. Like a weight has been lifted!

I have also written myself a cheque for £1,000,000 for my own writing services. The cheque is dated for my 40th birthday - in 17 months, and sits in my wallet a la Jim Carey.

Interestingly, I don't feel like procrastinating on forums now.

And, if that lot comes true I will not moan again and I'll give generously to infertility charities. 

Have a good rest of the day. xx

Sending even more love, affection, hope and baby dust.


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## MissMayhem

Love your letter *deedee* and aim to get myself feeling positive enough to write my own, though may have to do it in code in case the dog digs it up!!

Well I stuck to my guns...and he says he's leaving! Anniversary today and I spent last night on sofa and most of today either shouting or crying!  Told him I can't believe he's walking away from his marriage rather than stand up to his ex, he replied 'I'm not, I'm leaving you for my daughter'!! Shame he can't do other things for his daughter like hold her mother accountable for SD's emotional health. Booked tomorrow off to find somewhere to live, never had enough to take time off with me during treatment though. Priorities again I guess!

For once am lost for words.

Love to you all, sorry no personals.xx


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## artist_mum

hi miss mayhem

so so sorry to read this.  That is a terrible, awful, unkind thing to say "I'm leaving you for my daughter".  It shows a real immaturity and a worrying sense of what is most important to him.  He cannot make a future with his daughter.  

It is not usually the best thing to give advice to people in the middle of relationship difficulty - but in this case I would just say this:  You are still young enough to have a child with or without a man.  It seems that this man continues to put his child in front of yours.  I would let him go. 

Huge hug.  Stay true to yourself and your dreams.  Don't get pulled in to shouting.  You're more than this and you can have more than this.

xx


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## deedee_spark

Massive big hug to you MissMayhem.

I hope your ok. I really am lost for words. I spoke to my DH (his son is similar age to your SD). He agrees with you. NY is too much for any child. My SS may be going to Berlin for a history trip - I wouldn't refuse that because History is one of his chosen subjects and it's educational (and much cheaper). New York is a family holiday. 

Who was it that said that they hoped all these children had great jobs when they are older because they'll need them to pay for this life style? So true. It's a shame for these children, they're in for such a shock with the cost of housing and such. Your DH is doing his child no favours and neither is the school (irresponsible and horrendous pressure on the parents).

I'm so sorry about what has happened, that your DH is being an ****. You'll both calm down eventually, and then you can take some time to decide what you (not him) want to do when you feel a bit stronger. Infertility tests the strongest of couples. 

Sending you love and tuns of baby dust (because this isn't the end of your dream).

xx


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## MissMayhem

I wish I were strong enough to take your advice *artistmum*, ironically, I know there is a huge part of me that is. I just don't want to as, the other side of the stubborn idiot that I have described since this debacle started is a man who is often gentle and kind, reasonable and reliable. 

Thanks for sharing *Deedee* it's great to have a man's perspective too. I think that's what's making it so hard, that everyone here has the same view. I've also spoken to a friend, my mother and sister and they're all the same too. The only one who doesn't see it that way is DH. I can't believe him, particularly as he had a very stilted relationship with her until I turned up six years ago.

If I were someone else I would tell me to go! I will see what tomorrow brings.

Love to you all. Sorry no personals again.xx


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## Molly99

Sending you lots of love MissMayhem,

It sounds so much that your DH is defending what he feels is a threat to his relationship with SD.  It's sad to think that a marriage and trying for a baby could be seen as a threat.  In reality it isn't, your DH knows that and everything that you have done to create a family in which you provide a wonderful home for SD.

DH and I have such enormous communication problems too.  He has done the most terrible things and I have said them in response, in each of our own heads the other is worse.  We always end up getting to crisis point on the most minor of issues.  It's a way of deflecting away from the things that really matter and the things that they don't want to deal with.

In reality, your SD will be very upset and peed off if she can't go to New York because it has already been dangled like a carrot.  It is that bit that isn't fair on her, not your dose of reality.  

I hope that you are ok.  Don't make any decisions in the heat of it, just take your time.  These ridiculous issues have a way of working out and I really hope that it does work out for you and for you all xxx


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## MissMayhem

You hit the nail yet again *molly*: communication. Ours is appalling. I am as guilty of it as DH as, whereas he bottles and bottles things, I get so angry by the time he stops stewing that I'm either unapproachable or have to be quiet as can't trust myself not to fly off the handle. Noot good! 

He's told his ex that he can't pay and is more furious with me now than yesterday. I'm not sure whether I am meant to be pleased by this but I am not. I'm not worried about SD, as I know she will go anyway as her Grandfather had already agreed to pay, but I do feel extremely guilty. I feel no more prioritised; I have my husband saying that he has very reluctantly prioritised our future and is very clearly expressing his fury at this by refusing to speak with me.

The saddest part is had he willingly had the same thoughts about how we fund our treatment and SD mother's behaviour I have no doubt that we would have found a compromise that we could both live with. Had we been consulted we would have talked and very probably either agreed a smaller amount or to pay her spending money, we would never have agreed on 'nothing' even with the worry of treatment, and he knows that deep down. All that's happened now is the balance has shifted: me desperately unhappy/angry yesterday, him desperately unhappy/angry today. I feel like such a cow.

Am sorry everyone for hijacking and, ironically, hate how much I share here but feel it's one of the few places I feel safe.

I am having a self enforced ff holiday as of now so have a good weekend everyone, hope you're all hanging in there & keeping up the positivity. I will try my best to be less negative when I 'see' you next.

Big hugs.
MissM xxx


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## deedee_spark

I'm glad you stuck to your gun MissMayhem. 
Spoiling children is not helping them, so you DH might be upset but it's for the best.
It difficult few days for you. Well done. xx

My DH is pretty good. I know I am very lucky. If you see my other posts you'll know that the rest of my life is a shambles and I've had a traumatic past, so it's great I have him.

I too am taking time off from FF for a few months. Can't TTC until we get rid of the ureaplasma and DH is very ill on the medication. It's caused a flair of colitis - nothing is staying inside him and he'll need to do a course of steroids to recover.  FF tends to inflame the obsessive part of me (which worsens depression) so going to concentrate on having fun, writing my book and attempting to earn some money, whilst we're banned from the bed (or BD'ing). SS is not with us this weekend because of DH's illness but hopefully we'll see him next weekend.

I'll leave you with what my DH said to me (your DH's perhaps need this reminded to them):

'My son means the world to me. I'd do anything for him. But one day, in a few short years he'll be off enjoying himself, as he should be. I try to make you happy because, it will be you who looks after me when I am ill. You who looks after me when I am old and grey. It will be your responsibility, not my sons. So you are equally important and you're not going to take second place to my son. When issues crop up, we'll have to find a compromise or work around.'

I hope that comment hasn't pi**ed you off. It's mainly because I can see that some of your DH's need to get their priorities right... You're equally important to their child and if you're not you should ditch them).

Once again, huge amounts of baby dust being sent to each and everyone of you.

Deedee xx


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## JoJo7

Hi ladies,  hope you are all doing as well as possible under the circumstances.

I just popped on to wish miss mayhem and deedee all the best until we "see" them again.  Sometimes a break is as good as a rest and might be all the fuel you need to feel a bit more rejuvenated (I hope that's how it works out).

Hello to everyone else 😊

Hugs
Jojo x


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## MissMayhem

Hello all you bloody wonderful women!  Have been AWOL for a while, everything and nothing going on.  Just wanted to pop back to thank you all for your support over the months, to wish you well in all your individual journeys, and to wish you and yours a wonderful, happy and contented time over the Christmas period.  Here's hoping that the new year brings us some individual and collective joy.  Take care and catch you in the new year maybe.  Much love.  Miss M xxx


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## JoJo7

Hi Miss M,  Lovely to hear from you on here again.  I hope things are okay for you and that you feel a bit brighter after your FF break?  I have been popping on every now and again and have kinda missed the camaraderie that was so often found on this thread.
What are everyones arrangements over Xmas in terms of your stepfamilies?  We have year about so this year we have the kids for Xmas dinner and staying overnight until boxing day.  The years that we don't have them Xmas day we have them Xmas eve for movies and pizza instead and then again on boxing day.  However they have asked to still come for a couple of hours for the Xmas movie and pizza on Xmas eve even though they are coming on Xmas day too.  This made me feel really happy coz Xmas eve movie night was a tradition that I started for them a few years ago and I'm so happy that it has become something that they enjoy and look forward to   
We seem to have negotiated our way through the difficult patch we had with the ex-partner...or at least until I fall pregnant and then I shall prepare myself for the onslaught of difficulties should it arise.  Until then I am staying positive, happy and looking on the bright side that this may be my last Xmas without anyone calling me "mummy" (we can but hope eh....why not!)
Much love to you all and I hope you all have a smooth running Xmas as we all know that it ain't like it is in the adverts!!

Jojo xx


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## A J

Like Miss Mayhem I too have been away from here for a little while contemplating what is next in this journey...and this time of year is never easy. Every year I think to myself that this time next year we will have a family of our own but the year passes with the same result...nothing!

Still, on a brighter note, for the first time since DH and I have been together we get to spend Xmas Eve with each other. He has usually spent it with his son going to the cinema, sharing presents with the rest of his family (never included me) but this year his son feels he is too old for that now (he's 12!!)  and is going out with his friends instead...yipee for small mercies! Nasty of me I know as DH is really upset that their time together is getting less, but for me its great...

Oh, I can be a sarcastic you know what at times but I have had years of being second best and things hopefully will be turning around.

Hope everyone else is doing ok and this time of year is treating you well

AJ xx


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## deedee_spark

Wishing you all a merry christmas and a BFP successful 2015. 

My SS is nearly 15 so doesn't want to spend too much time with us boring oldies. I guess it is hard for him being an only child.

AJ - saw your signature (the details at the bottom of your post). Wow, you've been through so much. Hoping 2015 sends you a baby. xx

Happy Christmas everyone.

xx


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## artist_mum

hello *deedee, aj, mayhem, molly, jojo, crazyhorse, vickytick, wisp, crankyangie, greyhoundgal * and anyone else tuning in!

*Happy Christmas and wishing you all good things in the New Year!*

much love, as Miss Mayhem says, to a bloody wonderful set of women, and may you prevail in 2015

Artist xx


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## Molly99

Merry Christmas lovelies xxx

We've survived it here, more mad dashing around tomorrow.  Looking forward to a bit of peace and relaxation after New year already.  Kiddies arrived today, all nice though sd never wants to be here anymore.  I saw an email she wrote to her mother saying how much she hates it here and begging her to bring them back 

It's hard not to think about how wonderful it must be to not feel like you're holding someone else's child against their will.  Still, it hurts because I give a million per cent to try and make them happy here but I don't take it so personally any more.

Onwards and upwards, it's all we can do.  

Wishing you joy and peace and a he'll of a better year to come than this one  

Loads of love, thank you with all my heart for getting me through xxxxxxxx


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## MissMayhem

Hey everyone   We are all very quiet here lately so just dropping by to wish you all a happy 2015, hope it's been good to you so far. Hope you're all happy and well. Love and thanks to you all too and molly I will get round to messaging soon. XxxX


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## Molly99

Quiet but I bet we're all paddling madly still    don't you worry about it MissMayhem  

Sigh, I think that there is something very wrong with me   Why can't I be happy with small but lovely little mercies?  

I spent the weekend trying to console my distraught SD, it took a while but I did it and she was even very happy in the end.  I worry that she needs someone to talk to beyond me, she cries constantly when she arrives, can't bear to be parted from her mother (relatively new issue that) and doesn't sleep.  She says that she doesn't sleep at her mother's either and is constantly scared but doesn't know why.  I seem to be the only one worried, is this just normal 10 year old hormonal behaviour?  

I should be happy that I made a breakthrough on her worst weekend so far with us but instead it just scratches away at the infertility wound.  Why though, why can't I just think about her without turning it into my own sadness because I want my own daughter?

SS called me today too.  Am I happy that he feels able to phone me, yes definitely, in a way....but he just called me to ask where his dad was    I was just a conduit because he wanted to share some news with his parent.  DH was buzzing about how happy he was because SS told him to tell me that he loves me.  Yep folks, you got it right, I just felt that sad jealous self pity of someone who wants to hear news from their own child.

I am a selfish moo.  I'll never be happy if I can't start detaching my steppies from my infertility  

On the plus side, I love them and I am very lucky.  There can't be many step mums whose teenage SS holds her hand in public or whose SD is just adorably loving    If only it could be enough.

Thanks for listening to my guilty secret lovelies.  This brings out such ugly conflicting emotions.  

How are you all.  Thinking of you and the horrendous times that a lot of you are having xxxx


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## MissMayhem

Ohhh *molly* you're not selfish at all! Why would the loveliness of your steppies not scratch at your own wounds? It's perfectly natural, I think anyway. The two things are both separate yet intertwined. Your struggles with having your longed for child don't stop you from loving your stepchildren and being both emotionally and physically available to them. But your love for, and from them, doesn't take away the pain and yearning that you feel which hasn't gone away and which, at times, rears up so powerfully it threatens to obliterate us again. I hope you're feeling better and not being so hard on yourself, am only sorry that I didn't see this post sooner. I've been hiding out a bit after, honestly, a _very_ rocky Christmas and New Year but was afraid to say too much in case DH came nosing on here again. We've hung on, just. I've missed the camaraderie too *jojo*

Hoping everyone is doing ok. Lots of love.xxx


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## FertileRoad

hello all new to this thread, hope you dont mind me jumping on but I need to get it off my chest or tell someone.

I feel a very selfish person my DP daughter is expecting , actually she is over 2 weeks later and getting taken in for a section today on the day of her first sons birthday.2 weeks ago I had the worst day a work, followed by my older sister phoning to say that our mus phones are dead, so yip muggens here had to deal with the whole think, 2 hours later onto BT I finally get a result. To put you in the picture my mum has dementia and my sister lives 30 steps away but I have to fix everything. Even over xmas I had to still do the xmas dinner although I had a mini stroke in November. Getting back to DP daughter, I dont say SD as I have never met her so after being at my mums I phoned DP to say on way home he was in pub and telling me his daughter had went into labour, I switched off the phone, so for the last two weeks all his texts from family have been oh your going to be a granddad again. I hate it all, I have no feeling for the new arrival, am I bad. I have been trying for years upon years and nothing where her first child was conceived by accident as she was on the patch/injection and she didnt know she was pregnant, then her brother got a girl pregnant. Does anyone watch Mrs Brown _ ''thats nice''  thats all I can say and you know what it really means. Feeling bad and hating what today will bring, we both watch Call the Midwife and I could see my DP eyes twinkle all I could think so they twinkle for her baby. Sorry I am a right ***** I would be the Wicked Stepmon!  Thanks for letting me rant.


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## FertileRoad

continuing on from my last post - DP has sent me the pictures of the new arrival - my heart has sank, I feel numb. Dont want to go home, not sure why he is taking such an interest when he never slept under the same roof as DD as him and his wife has split up then she found out she was pregnant - the hand the rocks the cradle comes to mind.


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## MissMayhem

Ohhh FertileRoad big   to you and welcome. It's a little quiet here after the Christmas break but hopefully some of the other girls will be along with their wonderful support. It's a horrible feeling when you feel jealous in this way; the pain is almost unbearable and you then have the feelings of guilt on top. Even though we know how amazing conception and life are this cruel journey of infertility can take even that away from us. If it's any consolation I wince in pain when my SD talks of having a baby; she's only 13 and I would give everything for her never to experince this pain in her life, ever. Yet still I feel a little anger that she assumes it will 'just happen' (just like I thought in my teens right up to my mid 30s!) & sheer panic that I may witness her become  a mother before me! It's a horrible way to think and feel but sometimes it can be reality. The pain of our circumstances can take over sometimes, I ultimately had to leave work as I  couldn't cope with a pregnant colleague. The bit of good news I can offer is that, hopefully the pain will ease a little. I no longer always have to flick adverts of babies, I no longer walk out of the supermarket in tears and I've held a baby for the first time in over three years. Not brave enough yet to watch Call the Midwife though, had the boxset for over a year and can't go there still so you're braver than me. Please don't be too hard on yourself, if you were really wicked SM you wouldn't be here with your conscience. It's a horrible way to feel but this is a very painful place to be, you can't help how you feel. I find people on this site understand in ways few others can so always pop in when you need to.  xx


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## Cranky Angie

Just a brief post as I have been awol for so long. First off,  being busy with the baby put the steppie issues in the background for a while which was nice, and then of course we had the onslaught of cheating husband in December and I know some of you saw my posts and thanks for your support. It's been a very turbulent time and more and more lies have been uncovered as the weeks have gone on. Sadly it looks like it will be the end of the marriage now. For 2 reasons. One, I find it impossible to accept how DH has betrayed me in the most despicable way after all the years of support and help and love I have given to him and his 2 children during some really difficult times. And two, I really don't think he loves and cares enough for me and I really cannot see this changing. He is STILL talking non stop about windsurfing, he STiLL refuses to come and live with us in the UK even though he agrees it's the best thing for DS (his argument is he needs to stay here to earn the money and will visit us every other week) and he STiLL idolises his son and daughter - especially his 19 year old daughter who now (get this) has become his confidante about OUR problems. I have never felt so insulted. I heard him say to her in hushed tones over the phone that he was worried that I wouldn't be able to stand on my own 2 feet alone in the UK with the kids.  
Ever wish you'd never met someone? I love my kids but God I wish I'd had them with someone else. 
Sorry for the me post. Just suddenly had to get all that off my chest. 
Love to everyone. I can totally relate and totally get all those jealous feelings you've all been expressing. Stepchildren suck. Stepchildren plus unsupportive husbands suck more. And stepchildren, unsupportive husbands and infertility is hell on earth. Oh and then there's bloody lying, conniving, dirty cheats. 
Happy new year everyone. Promise to be calmer next time.  
Ange xxxxx


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## artist_mum

*fertileroad* my heart goes out to you, that's a really tough set of circumstances. at this time with the baby arriving you need him to be thinking of how you might feel. clearly he isn't. It sounds to me that you need someone to talk to that isn't looking for you to help them out with their stuff, but rather someone who can be considerate to you and your feelings. Counsellor? Or online support somehow. Don't let it eat you up. It's his stuff, his kids. Focus on you and your life, your future. do nice things for yourself, treat yourself, this isn't easy and you need to look after yourself if he isn't.

*crankyangie* Gosh I am so sorry to read your post and I just want to give you a big hug. So many tricky things to cope with. My DP has a daughter, only 11 now and I have had concerns about him developing that kind of relationship with her, it's wrong at every level to do that. Your DP shouldn't use her for that kind of support and for you, how very hurtful to have them discussing you. And yes, I have wished I never met DP at times but it is usually in anger and when I look afterwards at it I think that maybe he is just being a bloke and doing the wrong thing but that yes, we have something and he loves me. Perhaps that is also true for you. In my experience when you end a relationship you go on to find another and it is equally challenging - just in different ways to the previous one. Leaving to go it alone however has at times sounded good to me!! We had a terrible xmas and new year (due to steps visit and other stuff) - I wonder if this is true for you too? January is a notoriously difficult time. Anyway hang on in there. Of course you will cope with the children - you definitely sound like a coper. ANd btw i also get those feelings of anger when I did so much to help and now it's all smooth it seems to be forgotten - I totally get that. It's actually just very unfair. BUT and it 's a big BUT.. maybe some of it could be different with different kind of thinking. I'm using this http://moodgym.anu.edu.au. It looks really cheesy but it can help with the way you view things. It's also free. (but takes time, i do a bit everyday, but I know you have the kids so maybe it's tricky to find a moment). Anyway, I have heard you in your 'rant'. You are most definitely not alone with these kind of thoughts!!!! Please try to find a little something nice to do for yourself today. A treat that tells you you're worth it. Because you are xx

/links


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## Molly99

Ah the joys of rural living, here's me in a coffee shop after phone & broadband deprivation at home due to the storms.  10 days and still no prospect of it coming back on for another week, I'm going crazy.  Bonkers that we can't live without phones & internet for long.

Welcome Fertileroad, it's always good to have others join our often fraught, likely highly strung, more often than not teetering on the edge band of sisters    We need special care in our situations and finding people who understand the delicacies and complicated lives that we have to lead is just so important.  The people that we are most likely wanting to talk to and find support from (aka our partners) are often the least likely to be able to understand or offer any comfort.  It sucks, but that's what we have to live with.

I'd echo everything that MissMayhem said.  Jealousy is sadly so common for us, and it is more often than not caused by our partners just not thinking.  I too live in absolute dread of my steppies having their own children, they're 10 and 12 and I'm already preparing myself for the hurt and jealousy that it will bring.  Christ, I hope that my situation has changed by then but if it happens then I know that I will feel exactly the same way as you and it will physically pain me to hear my DH being called Grandad.  I'm not sure whether people will ever understand if they don't live through this, it's complicated and not pretty but there aren't many in our situation who don't feel this way I think.  The important thing (that I've learned through bitter experience) is that not talking about it turns it into a monster that can eat you up.  Even if it's just releasing how you feel on here then keep talking xxx

God Cranky, my heart just goes out to you.  I wish that I could offer more than a hug but I hope that a big   will go a little way.  Urgh to him talking to his daughter, that just goes to show how completely inappropriate he has become.  He still acts like one of the kids, what on earth kind of message is he giving to her about how she should expect to be treated in a relationship.  If you're anything like me, hearing him say that will make every little stubborn hair on your head stand up and you can prove him [email protected]@dy wrong.  Ha, as if life wouldn't be a million times simpler and easier without him and his mess xx

Artist, so nice to hear from you.  I've been using the moodgym too and found it to be fab.  I found that you need to be in a fairly sane sense of mind too in order to get the most out of it, so I had to put it down for a while    How are you doing lovely?

MissMayhem, you know everything that I want to say to you      How are you sweetie, I think of you a lot.  Step away from Call the Midwife    there are some things that you just don't need to see, maybe one to give away?!  How is the job hunting going?  So you're starting a cycle, wow, that is just blooming fantastic news    where did you decide to go? xx

AFM, I have had the onny offy best couple of days for a year    After having completely lost my confidence at work, I did some scary work for our Directors, who have just raved about me to everyone!  For the first time in a very long while, I feel like my old self at work and that I can do it still.

DH has been a rotter this week (still keeping memorabilia of his ex in our house yada yada and just breeding a jealousy ridden environment).  He called today and said that the penny has dropped and he wants to talk and then take me out to dinner tonight  

Our neighbours also called the police this week about our horrendous dog accident in November and we heard late last night that the police don't feel it is our issue or an offence due to the circumstances.  Can't tell you the weight that has been lifted.  Three lucky things  

xxxx


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## Molly99

Back in the coffee shop, I miss the internet  

Soooooo, DH did indeed have a major penny drop.  He apologised and said that he's realised that he has always been taking his past out on me.  His ex 'trapped' him into having my steppies (he was uber niaive and a very silly boy and she refused sex unless it was unprotected) and he's been fighting with me for the choice and rights that he didn't have with her.

The arguments that we've had about that, I knew it but he just takes his own time to get to the same conclusion (read 5 years into that).

Yay though.  Sad that our life has to be so embroiled in their mess but big big breakthrough and our first nice chat ever about having a baby  

I'm sure we're not out of the woods on this one but wow  

I've never had a long term acrimonious split but I guess that never escaping the ex because you're sort of tied to them must make it hard.  

Before I get thrown out or have to buy another coffee, how are you all?


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## Cranky Angie

Molly that's so crap that he's been punishing you for the way his ex treated him, but you know I think this is what men do!! My DH (not that that's a good term for him right now but you know who I mean) felt pushed out by his stepmother when he was 16, she had 2 more babies and so he left home. And I think he treats ME badly because he sees me as the stepmother and HIS children as needing to be protected from me. He even used to call me the wicked stepmother and see that as some kind of joke! Funny! Not. 
What's this .... First nice conversation we ever had about having a baby? What was said? It's such a shame men don't seem to be able to draw a line under their past and appreciate what they have now. I find them very immature and selfish. Or did we just choose badly? 
Love to everyone else. By the way, my steppies are now 19 and 23 and DH still wants to take them on every holiday. I think we've got a baby and a 9yo now and I'm tired of doing holidays with his grown up children, I've done it for 12 years. I want us to be the family now and for him to start putting us first. Am I unreasonable? He says I am as they will always be his kids. God I wish I'd married someone with no kids. 
Ange xx


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## MissMayhem

Hey everyone, nice to hear from people. *pixie* hope you're hanging in there and that your husband has managed to see things from your perspective too. I've not met many absent parents who manage to get that balance between us and their children. It must be hard and _of course_ their children are a huge priority, if they were the type to not bother we wouldn't have been interested in them in the first place but ohhh to have a bit of balance!

*artistmum* it's great to hear from you, am sorry Christmas was so tough for you. How are things with you since? Better I hope.xx

*angie* I've been following your other posts and my heart really goes out to you. I have felt so angry on your behalf. Him now using his daughter as confidante must be painful beyond words; I would hate it! Why is it that so many people who are lucky enough to be parents without issue fail to have an appropriate parent-child boundary?! It's infuriating and so hurtful for us on the other end. Am hoping that you've got some good support around you.  xx

My lovely *molly*, what a breakthrough!!! You are so patient. It's been a hard ride for you but you have always had faith that he'd get there! My DH has also acknowledged that emotionally he holds back from me because of his past experiences. Made me angry and even more frustrated but events do impact on us and I wonder whether this is true for a lot of us in some way, I know I have trust issues but these are my own stuff and not always to do with my husband. Did you talk about the other stuff during the baby talk? PM me if he's a snooper!  xx

Things are kind of ok here with me and DH at least, although I never thought I would be saying that. We have both committed to another cycle and agreed we will reassess after this and, instead of that making us unsettled, it seems to have taken the pressure off a bit. Other issues with SD continue, I still worry she's not being properly looked after but know also that it's nothing that would be deemed 'significant' from social services' point of view. So it is up to us to do a bit of damage limitation. Recently I've become the temporary scapegoat for everything that is wrong in her life and have had a few moments where I've been spoken to like dirt for putting in boundaries to protect her physically and emotionally. It's a hard balance isn't it, knowing how much they're hurting and understanding the 'why' behind the behaviour yet still maintaining clear expectations of how people can be treated. I've dealt with it, rightly or wrongly, by letting the dust settle and making it clear that I do not find being spoken to badly acceptable. I do all I can for her and am consistently there for her emotionally, often when her mother is not. But that the flip side of this is, if she is out of order or does something dangerous or inapproriate, she will be told. One doesn't come without the other so if she wants me to say nothing when she's out of line the same goes for ringing me early hours when she's in crisis. Naturally I would always want her to contact me if she's upset or distressed, but now that she feels it's her choice it should make future 'rules' a little more palatable for her!  It did make me think though about the stress I have from worrying about her, need to regain some perspective on that as need to be as chilled as possible to cycle again. Her father will have to pick up the slack for a bit.

Sorry, have gone on again! Hope you're all well and the few of you above are a little better since you last posted. Big hugs xxx


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## LellyLupin

Hello girls wondered if I could join this thread as a stepmother of two for the last 12 years.  I don't seem to get jealous of the kids so much as I hate the presence of DPs ex in my life.  For example Mothers Day has just been ruined for me by my mother in law who chose today to tell me she had met up with DPs ex for a cup of coffee and a chat.  Well thanks for that, I already feel like I have to compete not having brought kids into this relationship,  and that just about put the tin hat on it for me. I was so furious I just wanted her to go home but I had to endure the day as I was cooking dinner for her, still furious now


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## Molly99

Hello LesleyLupin, welcome and of course you can join  

I'm so sorry to hear about your Mother in Law and on Mothers Day too, it can be so hard at the best of times but the reminder of the ex was really, really insensitive.  How is your relationship with your MIL usually?  Do you think that it was a dig at you or just a really careless comment?  If it was either really then it would be worth just redrawing the boundaries, something like 'how nice, but I don't need to know'.  

It really was an inappropriate comment, why do they think we want to be reminded of an ex and especially on a day when most people would know to be sensitive   I have a tricky relationship with my own MIL so I know how they can upset the balance, often accidentally on purpose.

I had quite the opposite on my Mother's Day, the ex left a message for DH to call and it turned out it was because my lovely step daughter wanted to wish me a Happy Mother's Day    The ex clearly wasn't happy but good on her for letting my SD do it and what a sweetie my SD is    My first happy Mother's Day ever I think  

Love to you all xx


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## deedee_spark

Lesleylupin - I agree it is usually the ex that causes issues. My SS is 15 in a few weeks so the ex is running out of time to control us.  

Personally, I think your mother-in-law should be more loyal to her son and you. There would be big fallings out with my mother if she went for coffee with my ex husband. I do appreciate that grandparents want to keep things nice for the children, but that doesn't mean winding up son/new daughter in law. Well done for surviving the day. 

My SS says he'd like us to have a child. He said DH is great with kids and it wouldn't be fair that he should only ever have one.  I suspect boys are far easier than girls!!

Molly - you seem like such a great mum to the steppies. Those kids may play up to you on occasion, but I they'll really appreciate you later on. I think they will genuinely love having a little one running around. ;-) 

xx


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## LellyLupin

Hi Molly /Deedee  I usually get on with MIL exceptionally well, however whenever DP and I go away on holiday or for the weekend DPs ex wife always seems to get in touch and spark a meeting.  I feel shes playing some sort of game at times and it drives me mad that MIL falls for it,  and then uses the kids as an excuse to go up there and snoop.  I don't trust DPs ex at all and I too think MIL should be more loyal, its so hard for me to be in this family at the best of times and DPs ex has the trump cards to play in the kids.  This is the woman who broke up MILs family and devastated her son and yet suddenly all seems forgiven and shes going up there for a social visit.  I am still so hurt   

Fab that you SD wanted to wish you Happy Mothers Day Molly that's really lovely xx  I have a lovely SD and SS, couldn't ask for better kids so I have been lucky in that respect.  The only bust up me and MIL have ever had was when she found out I'd had IVf and not involved her,  she didn't speak to me for weeks which of course made things 100 times harder for me after just getting another BFN, I haven't really forgiven her for that and I am not sure I ever will.  Part of the reason I didn't tell her was I wanted it to be a lovely surprise when I fell pregnant - boy did that backfire on me.  Congratulation on your pregnancy by the way what a wonderful surprise for you.

Deedee my SD wants me to have a baby too, if only we could fulfil their wishes huh?  Boys are definitely easier than girls I would say, although both my steppies have been a joy, its just the baggage that comes with them that has driven me to despair at times.  People don't appreciate the stresses it brings especially when you can't have a baby of your own xx


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## MissMayhem

Welcome lesleylupin, am glad some of the girls have already responded to you; we've been a bit quiet here lately.  I've been taking a self-appointed break but came back to see how my lovely molly is getting on with her shock BFP    

Glad you found a place where you can grrrrrrrr about the stresses being a step parent can bring, and you're right, it's hardly ever the children that get our goats so bad!

Sounds to me that your DH's ex either has an issue with control or esteem.  I always used to think that people needing to remain in others' lives the way you've described was about control and not being able to fully let go of a situation that they were once actively involved in.  Not always the case I know as lots of people manage to be friends very successfully after splits which is lovely, especially for the children, but I've always been of the mindset that exes become that for very good reasons and very often bridges are meant for burning.  I do think DH's mother could be a bit more loyal too; she may well like her but I think you can be polite and civil to someone without having to fall over them.  Does his ex ever use the children or contact with them as a trump card if things aren't going her way?  I know some people do, just a thought that perhaps your MIL does feel things similarly to you but is frightened if she doesn't have the tete a tetes that it will impact on how much she sees her grandchildren?  When I think of my SD's mother, as much as she riles me, I think hers is less control and more an esteem issue.  She turned up at our wedding; that was, I think, down to her wanting to be important, wanting people to look at her on our day and comment 'oh you're SD's mother, how lovely to meet you'.  Quite sad really as personally, I can't think of much worse I'd want to do than turn up, uninvited, to the wedding of someone who didn't want to marry me.  There you go though!    Sometimes I think that I may create more problems than necessary with DH's ex as I get so angry about things she says and does, usually with very good reason, but not always.  My recent one is her telling us to give SD money for Easter instead of eggs as she is going on holiday.  Ordinarily logical me would totally get that but emotional me gets angry thinking 'when is this woman going to stop getting to tell me what I should and shouldn't do?!' Such a small thing that has a big impact because of history and baggage, and yet still I know I'm being ridiculous letting it annoy me!  

So yes, here, we know that the ex can be one of the hardest things, you will find some solidarity and understanding!     So, welcome and    to you, it's not easy.  And hello to all you other wonderful women, I will take our recent quietness as a good thing.  Love to you all.  MissM xxx


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## LellyLupin

Hi Miss Mayhem Thank you for the lovely warm welcome     Honestly I could have written the post you just wrote with regards to the 'am I making a mountain out of a molehill' subject.    I too sometimes wonder if the problem is me over reacting to something quite innocent and poor DP gets it in the neck.  Just recently we got a puppy and DPs ex gave us a puppy cage,  the first time shes been nice in 12 years, I was so suspicious and wondered if she just wanted something of hers to be in our house, paranoid I know    It is definitely because of the past horrible tricks shes pulled,  I could write a book on it as I am sure all of us could.  MIL seems to have forgotten what she put us through, it could be that's shes frightened of losing contact with the kids,  but honestly they are 13 and 17 now so If that was going to happen it would have happened way before now.  I think she went for a nosy as DPs ex married into money,  and as we were out of the way she thought it would be ok.  It only happens when me and DP are on holiday, it makes me feel so insecure so it could say more about me than anything else    I am still angry about it though, I feel as though DPs ex sees it as a victory over me,  as in look I can snap my fingers still get my old family back., but shes probably not thinking that at all  

xx


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## MissMayhem

Who knows what people are thinking sometimes lesleylupin, us included!   I actually have two A4 sheets of concerns around SD but none of them ever were 'significant' enough to warrant intervention, general bad parenting is very hard to prove. It is hard to forget past behaviour, I agree. I usually come full cycle with DH's ex, going from being totally exasperated and angry to the other extreme of feeling sorry for her. Today I'm at the former end of the scale   SD has just come home to tell us she's taking her to diet classes! She (ex) hardly eats and SD is a beautiful young thing who doesn't need to lose weight but compares herself to her tiny mother.  . She has fluctuations quite normal for her age and I have spent pounds on books to help her realise the normalcy of this and hours, and hours, and hourrrrs of my time talking to her and doing confidence stuff. SD has major issues with self esteem, body image, social awkwardness, OCD etc much of which can be traced back to how she is parented and her home experiences. I am furious with her mother, sort her own stuff and realise how she's impacting on her daughter she needs to not confirm to SD that there's something wrong with her! I give up, I really do.  SD now upset with me as she heard me telling DH there is something wrong with the woman, am usually so diplomatic but I am bloody fed up of making excuses for her and picking up the pieces with SD during the inevitable, and regular, fall outs from her mother's behaviour. This job is so hard isn't it! 

Sorry for the me rant! Am just so annoyed and upset seeing DH so upset too!!    and medals to us all! MissM xx


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## LellyLupin

It is a hard job MissM, your poor SD the last thing she needs is dieting classes,  shes far too young to be worrying about her weight.  All you can do is keep reinforcing how perfect she is and try to undo her mothers influence, easier said than done I know  .  I have basically given up even trying to have a say with my stepkids, even though I have had my SD since she was one and I have had some influence on her,  I can't win against her mother.  For instance I have tried to instil in the kids that you should work for a living and shouldn't get everything you want as it does you no good,  but as their mother has married into money she just gives them everything they ask for.  This week my SS is in Sicily and next week SD is going skiing in Italy while someone looks after the two horses she has, and can't be bothered with.  They both now live unrealistic lives because their mother feels guilty at what shes put them through,  so she compensates with giving in to whatever they want.  I sometimes wonder who is in charge because it seems the kids run the show at her house, they definitely don't at mine and they give me no trouble at all, in fact they are lovely with me.  They have always had stability here but shes given them two new dads, eight new siblings and thirteen house moves in thirteen years!!  Hardest job in the world being a stepmother and I know if I could have time over again I would have run a mile.


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## deedee_spark

Unfortunately, I don't have much time to write a good response to you both - Lesleylupin and MissMayhem.

I just can't believe what I have read! Sending you and your step children big hugs. I am sure they'll appreciate you later. 

Remember, blood is thicker than water, but love is thicker than blood.

xx


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## MissMayhem

Thanks deedee, insult to injury sometimes that so many of us struggle with fertility yet other women, like these two and some of the others mentioned here, have no problems becoming parents yet cause so much damage to their children in the process!  

I don't think I can invest much more energy in trying to undo' her mother's influence lesleylupin. I totally empathise with you; must be so much harder when you have you have them with you.   . She gets so little attention from her that when she does do/say something SD thinks it's so amazing she may as well walk on water!  The things that have come out this weekend have shocked even me. 

I think I'm ready to walk. Step parenting is the absolute pits on times!!  xx


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## LellyLupin

Thanks Deedee  

MissM  I feel for you    I have been at the walk away stage so many times but I love DP,  I have so much invested in him, I would/I have advised other people thinking of taking stepkids on to really think about it first and go in with their eyes open.  I had no idea what I was taking on when I met DP not a clue about how hard it would be,  and how your relationship is a bit like Princess Dianas always a third person in the background    Stay strong your SD will appreciate you I am sure xx


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## MissMayhem

*Lesleylupin* that analogy is perfect! The third person with absolutely no power whatsoever!  Spoke to DH again last night and he told me some more of the absolutely ridiculous that ex was shouting at him; I asked if I can contact her to let her know what I think of all of this and why, politely, but he refused as he doesn't want the repercussions from her. So I don't know what more I can do. Told him that it seems I get all the responsibility of looking after SD and picking up the _many_ emotional pieces for her, yet I get no say in anything whatsoever; told him he can't have it all ways so if he won't let me speak up when he is unwilling to, he can step forward and be the one who picks up all the pieces for SD, I will wake him when she phones at 2am as she's having a panic attack and her mother's not there. I will be there as much as I can for SD but I have to look after myself and am really and truly almost done with this. I would absolutely tell others to think seriously before becoming a step parent. I am a step child myself and my step father is wonderful so didn't think twice about taking someone else on but if I'd had a crystal ball I think I would have.  xx


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## LellyLupin

MissM how long have you been a stepparent for?  Have you actually met your SDs Mum?  I haven't met my stepkids Mum in 12 years, shes had the chance to meet me twice and ran away. 

I know what you mean about having to be silent, there are so many things I have wanted to say over the years  , DPs/DHs just want a quiet life that's why we never get to say what we think, they don't want the chew.  My SS had a meltdown yesterday apparently caused by too much pressure to be perfect, I felt so sorry for him, I knew it was coming but his biological parents apparently didn't. So much I could say about that.  I can also see trouble coming with SD as she is constantly being compared to SS, they don't see her face fall when SS gets all the attention but I do,  so I try to make it up to her.  Maybe being on the fringes of it you get to see more,  maybe we are more priviledged after all    Try to take a back seat and withdraw for a bit,  that's what I do when it gets too much, I just make sure I am out when they come and take the dog out or go shopping until I can face the furore again.  Sending you a  xx


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## MissMayhem

Hi *lesleylupin*, just seven years for me. DH always used to say it would get easier as SD got older but the opposite has happened. Combination of how tough things are for children in general in this technological age and the accumulative impact of her mother's behaviour.

Strange how your DH's ex avoids you, were it me I would want to know exactly who my children were staying with. I've met SD's mother plenty and if she didn't have responsibility for a child, particularly SD, I wouldn't have a problem with her. She's not a nasty person, just a hapless one who has learned to manipulate to coast through life getting what she wants in exchange for as little effort as possible. I often feel guilty that I'm reserved when she tries to be 'friends' but invariably within minutes/days of me feeling guilty she does something with SD again. She used to invite me in and to go places with her (never went anywhere with her but a few times felt awkward saying no so would go in to collect SD) and SD all the time but when chatting would try and run my DH down to me, even tried that one when she turned up, uninvited needless to say, on our wedding day. So it just became easier to keep distance between us and not be drawn into the game

Am sorry to hear your SC are compared. That happens in so many families and it's frightening how few adults know the damage that can cause. Thankfully you are one of the ones who can.reading your post made me realise what people are advising me, the difference of having one adult aware enough to look out for you. Still, is hard sometimes isn't it. I do exactly what you do when I need to step back, I then usually have a DH who is annoyed at me and a SD who attributes all her problems to me 'changing' by having timeout for an hour or so! 

Here's to all of us who have to keep it ! Fingers crossed we have good weekends. xx


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## LellyLupin

She did originally say she wanted to meet me, but then she ducked out so I thought why should I put myself out.  I have met her Mum and Dad, her two fellas and all of the kids that came with them but not her.  strange isn't it? 

I would have no wish to be friends with her,  as far as I can see shes nothing but a gold digger who drags her kids along for the ride.  I would have more respect for her if she'd married a window cleaner,  but she looks for widowers with children and ingratiates herself and then spends all the money and moves on.  I can't stand women who do that.  I think the kids have suffered due to being moved around so much,  and I think SS especially feels like he has no roots, they have spent their lives living in other peoples houses with new dads and siblings, no wonder issues are starting to surface.  She overcompensates by giving them everything they want materialistically, instead of a stable life.  I think shes horrible I really do.  Still it has got easier over the years as shes not in a position to control the situation as much as she could when the kids were small thankfully, I used to call her the puppet master.  I will give you a for instance of why I don't like her.  We had never been allowed to have the kids on xmas day ever in 11 years, then last xmas,  4 days before the big day,  she announced that she was taking the kids away on holiday on Boxing Day so we could have them.  We then had to change all our plans and our friends plans  to accommodate them as were meant to be having xmas dinner with friends.  No apology,  just have them or don't see them    My blood was boiling I can tell you.

I think we all deserve a medal  
I can't believe your DH ex turned up on your wedding day uninvited, I would have had her removed, it was your day not hers, talk about trying to upstage!


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## Molly99

How are you all lovely ladies?  I'm so sorry to heat that you are going through some tough times.

I have such respect for you MissMayhem, you're omni-present BM really has put you through it.  How are you feeling at the moment sweetie?  Thinking of you muchly and always xxx

I've never met the ex either LesleyLupin, for much the same reasons as you really.  DH is the responsible parent and he chose me, the kids are really happy and the ex was nothing but horrid in the beginning.  She is uber friendly now the kids have mobiles but I don't plan to talk or meet her.  I guess we'll have to at some point (weddings and such in the far future)  

It's our DH's that really have the opportunity to control how much the ex invades our lives.  My DH was so afraid that he had absolutely no boundaries for the first few years.  It took lots of upset, tears & tantrums to sort this out but I think that we finally have the balance right.  It will be a happy day when we have no contact with her at all though  

Any news with you all?  It's such a tough time to go through this and have such rubbish to deal with too.  It always seems to get worse when you're most stressed too.  It's like they sense the fact that you need to concentrate on yourself xx


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## Molly99

Grrr, just a matter of hours after feeling happy that the ex is finally in her box... I might have known  

Cue many hugely long texts to DH lecturing him on the fact they are parents and how she feels that she has to remind him of his duties or and how irresponsible it was of him to go on holiday because he is a parent 24 hours a day and its soooo unfair.

We had 3 days in Prague during the week when we don't have the kids.  He responds with a justification of why we went.  Where are the boundaries in that?  It's absolutely none of her business what we do in our private time that had no impact on the kids, I can't believe that he got caught up in justifying our perfect little break that should have been our embryo donation meeting but ended up in a shock celebration of our natural pregnancy.

Urgh, I am feeling sensitive perhaps but I hate, hate, hate her intrusion and his fear of implications.  She's now told us when we're having the kids over Easter and he just accepted it.  It's me that has to change my plans to look after them because it now extends to the day that DH told her he definitely can't do because of an important meeting.

I'd said that I was happy for that originally but we agreed with her for them to go back as it worked out better.  Now she's telling me what I have to do, my size 6 heels are digging in.

DH is so worried about standing up to her that he just accepts it.  I feel like I shouldn't have to accept any of her dictatorship or emotional bribery.  I'll do it but I'm very much of the mind that why the he'll should I.

Sorry for the rant lovely ladies, I'm just so annoyed x


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## LellyLupin

Gosh Molly that sucks, how dare she lecture you when it wasn't even on the days you have the kids!  Shes just jealous and controlling,  I would be furious too.   He should have told her where to go,  but as with my DP too they feel they can't for some reason, guilt I think it is.  I expect some of your anger is for DHh for being a pushover, we always seem to be second best don't we.  I bet you were tempted to ring her and give her a dressing down the cheeky  .  Does she know you are pregnant?  If so it could be insecurity on her part, she may feel threatened that once your baby is here she won't have as much control.  Big hug coming your way, try and stay calm for your little ones sake, hard I know  

We have the opposite problem this Bank Holiday weekend, DPs kids have been away all week skiing etc but when they come back the ex has people staying.  So DP has been told he can see them for an hour but he will have to go up there and that's it.  Great for me but no so for him.  Of course he didn't get a time,  he will have to go when he is summoned meaning we can't plan anything as per usual      Trouble is we will never be free of this woman,  even when the kids grow up she'll be in the background like some spectre trying to control the grandkids and our access to them I expect


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## Molly99

Thanks for listening to my rant LesleyLupin!  Well, DH totally shocked me, after I tantrumed my way up to bed they were still texting and he basically told her that it our private life is none of her business when it doesn't relate directly to the children    

First time ever!  We've come so far, I can't believe that I didn't trust him now    We're talking about setting firm holidays now so we don't have the ambiguity and she doesn't have all the control.  

Feeling very happy  

That's terrible about your DH having to go there.  The ball is well and truly in her court isn't it.  That must be very difficult for both of you, particularly having your entire day taken over.  Manipulation is a horrible thing and it sounds like that's really what she's doing and he's going along with it because she has all of the power.  I can't imagine being in that situation, but then I really could never imagine doing that to someone either.  If it's something that being a step parent teaches you, it's how to treat people and how you'd never do things like they do should we ever be parents.   for your patience xxx


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## LellyLupin

High Five for your DH Molly!,  I bet she didn't see that coming, good for him (and you).  Maybe now you are having a little one he is thinking shes had her time being in the driving seat.  So happy for you  

I do have little moments of victory  ,  DP took the day off today and went to the exs house to see SS who is now back and took my dog with him so they could walk them in the woods,  my dog ran in the house after her  dog and promptly left her a huge present on her cream rug.  That's my boy!!    SD is not back till Saturday so hes getting an hour with her on Sunday and that's it.


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## MissMayhem

WOW Molly (just pmd you but bugged me I couldn't remember what your DH's ex had done!) Goooo DH!! Am so, so pleased for you! He's proving time and time again these past few months how justified your faith in him was.

Im reading both yours and Lesleylupin's comments and it's _just_ dawned on me that we weren't even asked if we were ok with SD going on hols (although it was on 'our' weekend)! Just an assumption yet again that we will just change our plans to suit. We were just told to provide spending money. DH has shocked me too as he's said we won't be collecting SD from airport or changing our plans for the weekend to suit. Must be something in the water!! 

 to you both and anyone else still around.xx


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## artist_mum

hello ladies

just a quickie hello and glad you are all hanging on in there!  sounds like some positive DP behaviours all round which is nice to read    I"m just in a general 'fed up with steppies' kind of state.  I feel like i just can't be bothered.  Probably to do with having a full time job plus care work as well.  I"m happy with what i'm doing, but really feel like I don't need steppie weekends too.  We have the puppy and loads to do with the house and STILL wanting to organise our IVF so you know -it's hard to fit it all in really isn't it?! Oh well, we'll see what happens next. 

anyway just wanted to say hi, love to all

xxx


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## artist_mum

hey *molly* i just read back again&#8230; and saw your news?!?! Gosh Gosh gosh!! Everything crossed for you. that's great  xx


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## LellyLupin

Right there with you Artist, sometimes I just can't be bothered with the disruption,  but once they are here we usually have fun, hate it when ex feels the need to text them all the time though.  Butt out will ya!!    Much love to you and MissM and Molly xx


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## MissMayhem

Hey *artistmum* it's lovely to hear from you. Isn't Molly's news absolutely crazily fantastic?!? 

I'm sorry to hear you're feeling fed up at the minute. It's totally understandable though, even though we know it's not the children's fault it's so hard sometimes not to feel resentful. What do you need to organise for your IVF? Not sure on what you decided on after. Perhaps it's time to put yourself first momentarily. It's not fair, or acceptable, if your needs are pushed back all the time.

I have the opposite to you *lesleylupin*, SD's mother never even answers when there's a crisis let alone ring/txt her all the time. Yet still she dictates to us and still I have to hear about her all the time, even hearing her name stresses me. That's why this week has been so nice, no SD = No Ex = Bliss and no arguments with DH, it's been lovely.

 to you all xx


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## Molly99

Thank you wonderful ladies      You've hit it on the head again MissMayhem, crazily fantastic is the perfect description.  It still feels so utterly crazy and surreal, I'm still putting off a scan though I know that I have to next week.  I was convinced that my period would arrive last weekend but still no, despite feeling like I've got a cricket ball down there, I still can't believe that it's real.

So nice to hear from you ArtistMum, though so sorry that you're having a rough time, you sound exhausted.  Puppies, caring, houses and IVF are by far enough to cope with   xx

MissMayhem, I can't tell you how pleased I am to see that you and your DH have had a relatively stress free week.  It's funny how that happens when you don't have steppies around.  Sad isn't it, it so often hinges on the fact that you can't have steppies without the hassle and stress xx

Love to you Lesleylupin xx

We've just had a week at my Mum's house with my steppies (they're away so it was lovely).  My SD's mood swings are utterly bewildering, she goes from deliriously happy and bouncy to almost manic depression and monosyllabic, and then back again within the space of an hour or so.  I feel for her, getting a mobile phone was wonderful for her but she just spends all her time texting her mother and asking why she won't pick her up.  I know that she misses her friends, it must be pretty horrible.  I wish that I knew how to reach her or I didn't let it bother me so much.  It was a lovely week, though I couldn't be more tired now and it's actually really fab that DH will get home from dropping them off and we can just do nothing tonight


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## LellyLupin

Gosh MissM we took the kids on holiday and SS spent so much time ringing his Mum and Grandparents he couldn't enjoy himself.  DP in the end had a word with her and said hes supposed to be relaxing not checking in every five minutes.  Sometimes we haven't had them an hour and shes texting them saying shes doing their tea so they feel they have to go home, drive me nuts!  Glad you've had a bit of peace, I only ever completely relax when they are all abroad on holiday xx

Molly your baby is a miracle  , no wonder you are tired after a week entertaining the kids if hormones are at play (and I am not talking about yours  )

AFM already asking DP whats happening with the kids this weekend,  and again being told hes just going to wait for them to ring meaning I can't plan anything grrr!!


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## MissMayhem

Step mother duties resumed today, so did the stress attached to it.......oh to have met the rest of us before we committed to this life eh!  Hope everyone's doing ok?xx


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## LellyLupin

You said it miss I think I would have ran a mile!


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## MissMayhem

That's a high probability *lesleylupin*!!xx


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## MissMayhem

Any of us around girls?! Had a weekend of it with SD one  way or another this weekend. Glad to see her go home whch is not usually me. Don't know whether I'm warranted or if I am unknowingly rejecting her because of my issues. Have been pushed to the brink and at this rate be quite happy not to see her next week! Hope everyone's ok?xx


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## Molly99

Oh sweetie , sometimes kids just push any adult to the limit    how are you now?  It's no wwonder.  Do you have today to destress? Xxxx


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## MissMayhem

Hello my lovely Molly, I did have break thank goodness but ended up ill in bed all over bank hol, am still in my bed now feeling sorry for myself, full on flu I think....on the plus side feel like I've  lost four stone though!  I'm still angry even now though. DH had a clear glimpse into the attitude that's been causing issues at school. Screaming  and swearing at her father, lil madam is lucky I wasn't  there! I'm the wicked stepmother now for picking on her apparently I beg even the most  placid of characters tm have not responded this week. I am strict but swearing  at your father is unacceptable to me. Particularly as he always speaks respectfully to her. It's all  helping me to emotionally detach tho, am beginning to care less and less and to enjoy the harmony that comes when she and her mother  are off the scene. Never thought it would come to this. But enough about me, pm me about your weekend.xx


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## LellyLupin

Gosh MissM sounds like you have had a real time of it with SD, swearing at anyone let alone her father is totally out of order.  I too am feeling emotionally detached from the steppies.  Apart from the fact that I rarely see them now,  they still seem to dictate what DP is doing each weekend.  I am having issues with him telling me what he is doing each weekend so I can't plan anything again, we've had numerous arguments about this over the past 12 years.  For instance this weekend he disappeared at 9.30 am and reappeared at 4.30pm while I sat at home wondering what was going on and if he was coming home.  I was furious which made me trip out with migraine .  I don't think I am asking too much just for a bit of respect.  He is supposed to be with me but its me who is ALWAYS second to his ex and kids and quite frankly now they are nearly adults I am fed up of it.    He spends a lot of time at his exes with his daughter now shes bought her two horses which I don't go mad about but many a woman would.  I don't clip his wings in any way I just want to know whats happening so I can plan what I am doing.  Still angry now.


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## MissMayhem

Sorry you're still struggling too lesleylupin   Are any of us still about here?! It's so quiet here and am really struggling.  Don't want to lay all my woes solely at Molly's door! Hope the silence here is an indicator that you're mostly ok.xx


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## Molly99

MissMayhem, I've just seen your post on the other thread    

I will email asap but I just wanted to say how disappointed I am with your SD and how sad I am for you lovely.  You need a ginormous hug, so I am sending one your way.  This is sort of how your SD has been gearing up isn't it, she's been building up to something recently and this clearly is her finale    

Whether she is trying this tact alone, as an escape mechanism to avoid her problems, or it she is being steered by her mother is a question.  The main question though is why your DH is acting the way that he is. He has told you something absolutely soul destroying and heartbreaking, especially for someone who has invested so much time, love and support in his daughter, and throws a tantrum when you're upset.  What kind of reaction did he think you'd have to that bombshell?  

The step mother is always the easy scapegoat in fraught family situations.  I just wanted to say that none of this is your fault lovely, don't let anyone pile on the guilt for what is happening.  It was only the other week that your SD was throwing such accusations at her Dad's door wasn't it, she's tried that one and her Dad bent over backwards to please her and win her back, instead of perhaps dealing with the situation properly.  She effectively got a 'prize' for her behaviour that time, so now she's trying it again - and even harder.

I am so so sorry that you are going through this.  The one thing that no wife / step mother can ever do in these situations (myself definitely included) is remember that this isn't your mess.  I've never 100% agreed with that (as I'm sure that you don't) because we have a vested interest in our steppies because we love them...I think that the message is though that you can't mend what you didn't break.  You certainly can't shoulder the lion share of blame for this - is that what your DH is doing do you think, is it easier for him to just go along with her for fear of repercussions and he's using you as a scapegoat too?

I am thinking of you lovely and will email after this to check that you are ok xxxxxxxxx

LesleyLupin, I'm so sorry that you are struggling too.  Funnily (or not) enough, we have been having a parallel discussion with MrsBarkly about almost the same thing.  Not being involved in decisions and planning is not fair in the slightest.  I'm sure that you have had this discussion with your DP but what are his reasons for not involving you?  Does he know how upset it makes you and how just a really, really simple change in talking to you about what he's thinking and planning would make such a difference to you?  Have you also talked to him about them perhaps spending more time at yours instead of their mother's so that you can start to be more of a family yourselves?

Oh ladies, I'm so upset for you both.  What a load of complicated - mostly DH derived - problems your having to deal with on top of your fertility.  Sending you both big   xx


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## Sbarky15

I just want to pipe up and let you all know I'm here a chat  How are you feeling MissMayhem  xx


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## LellyLupin

MissM  I am here too if you need to offload    Whats happened ?  Have I missed a post of yours?

Hi Molly DP doesn't seem to give me a reason, when I ask he clams up.  I am past caring about not being involved now, I just want him to tell me when hes not going to be available.  I tried to talk to him again but its a waste of time.  He has just told me hes taking a day off work tomorrow to take them out for the day,  but he didn't extend the invite to me.  I used to be so involved with the kids when they were younger, but now everything seems to be done separately  from me.  I am not bothered now as its less stress for me, but I don't like the waiting around part.  I told him I was just going to start doing my own thing,  and I fully intend to do just that for a while and see what happens.  How are you and the baby doing?


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## Molly99

It's great (if you know what I mean!) that this thread is a little busier.  It's always good to talk  

Thinking of you MissMayhem xx

MrsBarky, how are you feeling?  Great to see you on here xx  

LesleyLupin, it sounds as though your DP has got increasingly independent in terms of his children, did it start out like that or did it come on more gradually?  Although the lack of stress is good for you right now, are you sure that you're ok with it?  You do come across as a little sad about how things have worked out?  It's a horrible situation to be in, I really feel for you with the not being able to plan anything.  Like you say, maybe the way forward is to just get on with doing your own thing but is that ok with you in the long run? xx  

Things are great with me thank you, though I'm becoming a right martyr to this cold!  I'm 16 weeks now and all is well, I still struggle with this being a reality and find it hard to talk about to anyone but DH but I'm very chilled about it all.  

We have my steppies for a long weekend from tomorrow night.  Two weeks seems like a long time since we've seen them, especially my SD as we only took her out for dinner the last time as she was at camp.  I know that we'll have the inevitable settling in, especially with SD who hasn't wanted to come for ages now, but hopefully that won't last long.  We live in the most fab rural area and do so many exciting things with them but it just isn't their town home with all of their friends around.  I feel for them.

Hope that you all have some sunshine today xx


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## Sbarky15

Thanks Molly 

I'm ok - finished my tantrum as I always do when the week starts again. Have a break away from the steppies this weekend as hubby is working. Feel a bit guilty on my husband about my melt down at the weekend, because I know he will have taken it to heart. Part of me wants to say sorry, and that I didn't mean anything I said (about wanting him to have the kids without me being involved), but I know if I say that, give it a few weeks and it will all just come out again! Its the same for me Molly, sometimes my steppies wont come as they don't want to. I breathe a sigh of relief, but I know it bothers DH.

Any advice welcomed! Hope everyone is ok.


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## Molly99

I'm so glad that you're feeling better MrsBarky.  I remember that cycle all too well, I used to have panic attacks every weekend just before the children arrived and completely relieved when they left.  I never thought that I would get to the point where I was really excited about them arriving  

I used to get myself into such a state that I had to figure out why.  I think that my primary problem was all of the stress and ex issues that used to be so integral to them coming, once that was sorted it really did get easier.  I also thought about why I found them so difficult, apart from the inevitable reminder of how much I wanted a baby.  When I really got down to it, it was the physical proximity for me, primarily with my SD.  My SD comes from a family of 5 other women and so absolutely suffocated me and wouldn't let DH touch her.  She would have me in a head lock for the majority of the time, try to drink out of the same cup as me, be touching me at ALL times and even wait at the bathroom door when I went to the loo.  Bless her, I can see it for all of her insecurities now but it was like she sucked all of the air out of my lungs at the time.

How long have you been a step mum for?  It takes such a huge amount of time to feel comfortable and to be able to establish your own limits and routines.  It's funny isn't it but bio-parents have exactly the same limits, we just feel wicked for feeling the same - and it's especially hard when you don't have the benefit of history, understanding the child inside out and daily routine.

Don't be too hard on yourself.  I think it's completely natural to feel how you do xxx


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## Sbarky15

Its been nearly 4 years now.
You know what, his children love me. It's me who distances myself. And generally, I have no complaints about their behaviour in general, they're good kids (which makes it worse I think). They had no boundaries when I first met DH (slept in his bed, rode scooters in the house, drew on walls  - which INSTANTLY changed haha!!!) but as soon as they were put in place, they didn't complain. I've had a few nasty comments like "you're not married to dad, my mum is" things like that stick. DH told me in our early days "he would also love his ex because she's the mum to his kids" even though he says now that he didn't mean it, its raw and makes me insecure even after all these years!!!!

I don't know which of my confessions will be worse to admit now, but I came from a broken home and was NEVER excepted by Sdad or Smum. Completely the opposite in fact without going into too much detail, so shouldn't I know better

And, them poor kids are 2 out of 7!!!! I cant get my head around it. Im there, childless, worked all my life college, uni etc... His ex is 25 years old with 7 children to 2 different dads, looks and acts like Vikki Pollard. We are so opposite its unbelieveable, how can I be jealous over that lifestyle and why did someone bless Vikki Pollard with my husbands 2 babies but not me  

In the early days I loved being around them and missed them when they went home, but as time goes by I am getting worse.... if I cant get away, im clock watching until they go home and praying that they don't want to stay the night. How bad is that....


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## Molly99

Oh sweetie, it really isn't that bad.  You have had a good relationship with them and felt comfortable enough to set boundaries, which it sounds like they thrived on.

Do you think that finding it more difficult coincides with when you started treatment (or from when you found out that you needed it and wouldn't be supported on the NHS)? xx


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## Sbarky15

I have always had a feeling that I would have fertility issues due to a lot of gynae issues, do it didn't come as a surprise. I do think I felt it harder when I was told that we need to fund it ourselves, but it's always been there if im honest x


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## LellyLupin

MissBarky your last comment could have been written by me    I dread them coming, enjoy them being here when they are here, feel relieved when they go hope and dread them coming again and yet they are wonderful kids.  I am wondering if it is the fertility issues  that make us feel like we do.  I used to be so involved with the kids but as they have grown older I rarely see them.  The fact that DP puts their needs and their mothers needs before our own life bothers,  me as we have had to live our lives around what they want.  I did think it would change when they got older but now the kids just click their fingers and he goes running, I feel very second a lot of the time xx

Glad everything is going well with your prehnanct Molly, MissM I hope  you are ok xx


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## Sbarky15

Hi Lesleylupin, thanks for messaging. Just confirmation that we are not alone, but it makes you feel like a bad person. Mine are 8 and 6, so getting to that stage now of being demanding and talking to you like crap. 
I got sick of hearing "HELLLOOO?!?!?" before every demand last week lol    

But what can you say without being the bad guy.....


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## Molly99

Tee hee, MrsBarky!  Mine are 13 and 11 now, but I've got to say that I found the 6-8 phase pretty challenging.  I think that it's just when they're starting to feel their confidence and when they get the most attitude  

I guess that we put ourselves into the bad guy category.  I would never really correct my steppies in the past because ... I don't know why really, probably because I was worried that they would see me as a nasty person.  Saying helllooo is pretty rude though, it's your house and you should feel comfortable in correcting rude behaviour.  It's so strange how feeling comfortable can be the last thing that we feel.  I'm getting a bit better about it now, but I still don't like correcting the kids - though I will correct my niece until the cows come home.  DH always struggled with why there was a difference, I can't explain why there is (especially as my niece is adopted and so I haven't known her from birth either).  I guess that I feel that my niece is stuck with me, I'll be her aunty for the rest of her life and it doesn't matter how much she might not want that because she's 100% ours and she doesn't get a choice  

Fertility does put a whole new pressure on relationships, it certainly did for me.  If I take out all of the nonsense with the ex, it was probably at the heart of it for me.  You'd have to be a pretty special person for it not to be.  Most people can choose what children situations they go to but we can't and it's seen as not right when we do.  It's very, very unfair as how can you balance access with appointments, hear about baby stories whilst smiling sweetly and pretend your gut is not being wrenched out .... It's a constant scratching at the wound and it really hurts.

It's funny but I didn't read a single website or book on step families that really dealt with how to cope if you have infertility too.  The best one that I ever read was a psychology research paper.  It's such a hidden thing.  Why isn't it dealt with properly, isn't 1 in 4 families a step family now?  Urgh, I think that we should all write a book to help the poor women who think they're completely alone out there


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## Molly99

Here's the paper that I was talking about if you fancy reading it http://www.nancyhafkin.com/resources/RemarriedFamily.pdf It's quite researchy but it was so fantastic to connect with pretty much all of it.

Funnily enough, as you might expect, it says that step mums without biological children already struggle the most. It has a good section on techniques to help with the tandem emotional traumas of fertility treatment and step family integration. The timeline is also fantastic and actually looks at how fertility treatment affects wellbeing and relationships (on all sides).

It was also the first time that I ever came across the idea of different reproductive agendas - my DH and I were just on completely different timelines, he felt like he'd created his family and was ready to just enjoy it whilst I didn't feel like we had even started one yet. I couldn't understand why he felt that way at all because the idea of him feeling like he'd finished creating his family with his ex was pretty repulsive, so it's a good balance of views really.

It really is a fantastic paper and well worth reading (and for your DH's too if they will). It certainly made me realise why we were in complete chaos and just at constant logger heads in our relationship.

I hope that it helps x

/links


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## Sbarky15

I had to laugh a little when I saw your post   
I am exactly the same with my nieces. I adore them and they adore me, they want to stay my house all the time and I have 100% so much time for them...
DH hasn't questioned this YET. But I suspect he thinks it. My answer being, my nieces don't run around shouting "DAD" to the man I want children with.. 

Thank you for sending me that link, I will certainly have a read and feedback to you. Im steppies free this weekend YAYY     naughty me. But having some girl time with my eldest niece, pamper session, cheesy films (dirty dancing etc...) and some posh tassimo coffees and chocolates <3


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## LellyLupin

Its funny isn't it,  I too seem to be able to accept any other child but my steppies annoy me when they are not doing anything wrong.  I love my God Daughter to bits and my nieces and nephews.  My steppies are lovely kids,  I have only ever in 12 years stepped in to discipline them twice, never had a need to - and yet inside I resent them.  Its nothing they have done so it must be the infertility thing.  Of course all my feelings I hide and I am pretty ashamed of how I feel sometimes, you would never know how I really feel on the outside and I give them both my full time and attention when I do see them.  I do love them in a way but if I could wave a magic wand and make them disappear I would in a heartbeat - how terrible is that    The sad thing is they love me and my SD loves to be with me when she does visit.  I  sometimes think its just nature, like male lions kill the cubs of widowed lionesses because they want their genes to survive.  Its an instinct thing I am pretty sure.  I do know that if I could have my time over again I would run a mile, I never bargained for the rollercoaster of emotions being a stepmum and being infertile would bring.  I would die if the kids knew how I really felt sometimes they would be shocked xx


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## A J

Hi Ladies...just popping on quickly and wanted to thank Molly for posting the article

Sums a lot up, will be back on soon and catch up properly

A J xx


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## Sbarky15

Molly that research piece was fantastic. 

You're right, it does help you to connect and sort of makes me feel less "evil" and more "human" if you like. 

I have even printed it and highlighted sections I feel are relevant to me and I have asked DH to read it. Don't know whether he will, but worth a try!

Thanks for sharing <3 - 5 days until the return of the wicked step CHILDREN haha <3


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## Sbarky15

Is everyone looking forward to fathers day??


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## A J

Like a hole in the head...almost as much as Mother's Day! x


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## Molly99

Oh lovelies, I hope that this weekend passes quickly for you.  The marketing is absolutely crazy isn't it xx


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## MissMayhem

See, Father's Day doesn't bother me. Never has, funny isn't it! Xx


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## Sbarky15

Yeah it is a bit of a kick in the teeth, but not something to dwell over either, as long as dear steppies don't stress any untoward comments lol


----------



## Molly99

It used to hurt a bit until a few years ago with me but I've liked to make a big fuss about it since.  I sat myself down one day and looked at how it must hurt my DH and realised that I was being really selfish.  

That's not to say that any of you are being selfish lovely ladies   or to say that it didn't continue to hurt a little.  This was a completely personal view for me, it was all part of the give and take and in me completely accepting my steppies.  I think that only became really possible when his ex became just a minor part in our lives though x


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## cosmopolitan4112008

I don't know since when thst holiday started being celebrated. 20 years ago it didn't exist. 

Now, different topic: how do your husbands explain the step kids behaviour? 
Mine says it is so because they feel hurt that another woman replaced their mum. Next time I will tell him that he should have stayed married to her. Had I been his mistress who caused the marriage collapse, it would have been a different story, but like this...They are without manners all the time...imagine someone entering the house and not greeting,  not even my mum who is over  60? And now the oldest one is to give birth. Last month my husband went back to our country, she came and didn't ask him about me and my baby. She asked my domestic helper. They are petrified I would get pregnant again.


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## Sbarky15

I completely agree with you Molly99, acting on your feelings towards fathers day is selfish. I always buy my husband a gift and cards from the steppies otherwise he wouldn't have anything (not off the mother anyway, shes so tight her ar5e squeaks when she walks lol). 

Doesn't stop the pain though at all... I'm glad he's working in a way. It will keep everyone off the subject and we can concentrate on our dads, then he can have his own fathers day when the hype is out the way. 

Ohhh the joys


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## Lilly83

Can I rant?? 

So annoyed    We were booked a week on Monday for immunes before our FET after the failed cycle, it's been hard to get DP to have a convo about it as he always working or seeing his daughter, I pushed him for a convo today about which tests we wanted as we have bloods booked right after the consultation at Care, anyway tonight he gets home and says 'are we expecting to pay for the immunes that day' yes I said I have been trying to talk to you about it for a while, and he just said we will have to postpone as he is paying £500 arrears a month to csa, he has always paid his way apart from early on he paid her cash then she keeps asking for reviews on him as she thinks he is earning more and she says he doesn't have his DD overnight so he has to pay max payment as if he has no overnights 

Just really annoyed he hasn't said this sooner, and im sure he can't be made to pay £500 a month arrears? Have a feeling he is doing it to keep ex sweet 

So dissapointed, was hoping for FET before our due date which was xmas eve  

Hope everyone's ok xx


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## Molly99

Oh Lilly, that doesn't sound right.  No wonder that you need a rant  

He surely would have to earn a fortune to pay £500 arrears, and is that on top of his usual arrangement.  I don't know but it doesn't sound quite like an official payment.  The over night rule is really rotten too.

It sounds as though your DH is being very secretive about this arrangement.  Do you know whether it is the CSA that have actually reviewed him or he's just come to a private arrangement?

I think that this can be the hardest part in stepfamiles and its certainly cited as one that causes a huge amount of stress.  BUT finances are something that affects you both and such collosal outgoings really do need to be open and on the table.  He isn't a single man and this affects you completely so it's only fair that he takes you through the arrangement and shows you some CSA paperwork.

I know how hard that will be to get him to do that but he's not seeing as this affecting you and you're going to have to make a huge sacrifice for him in return xxxxx


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## Lilly83

Cheers Molly, hope you're well

I wouldn't mind if he said im really sorry money's tight can we delay, before this donor cycle we were booked in for full level 1 and 2 at £2,800 but we skipped it as donor match came quicker than expected, this time after the loss I said we need to do it and he agreed, plus nhs are doing some now after the MC so it's even cheaper, he said he was up for fet in a few months so I don't see why he is now acting like its a shock 

To be honest he has lied and been secretive before, he doesn't drink/smoke and gamble but he wastes money, as an example he found out a few years back he needed glasses and no joke he bought 6 pairs! Everything's about his image, he never wears them now ever! He will think nothing of buying 1 pair of socks for £12, he wears the same boxers that aren't cheap, they changed the design and he went and bought 12 pairs even though the others were only a few months old, it's like he has an addiction to spending 

He has got tax rebates too and lied when he has owed me money so he could spend it, things are much better now though but I have always told him I worry about his spending and he will never be honest about his debt ( I know why was I having ivf with him etc etc but you know what it's like) 

As for the csa I know he didn't pay xmas 2013 as he got made redundant and had no wage for a couple of months but I'm sure he caught up, the ex stopped his access when he didn't pay and said if he transferred cash he could see his DD, he got a better paid job after that so his payments went up but she asks for reviews a lot he says even when his wage is the same, she won't tell them about the overnights though incase it goes down 

He just said he wasn't getting into debt for ivf and he didn't know he would be expected to pay anything soon, I'm presuming he has maxed out all his credit cards, so angry as its ok to credit card clothes, shopping, weekly (yes weekly!) haircuts and gym! 

Sorry for ranting  

I slept in spare room and we didn't speak this morning 

Oh and he said the arrests are £1,500 as they calculated it wrong, does that happen? They can't force him to clear them that quick can they? It's usually £280 a month but he said he has to pay £500 a month now he said 

L x


----------



## CrazyHorse

Those kinds of shenanigans about money would be a bigger dealbreaker than cheating for me, so I get why you're upset.  

I'm not a stepmother, so I can't really comment on the emotional aspect of it, but what sticks out to me is the issue about the overnight visits. Is he saying that he has his DD overnight sometimes, but then his ex is telling CSA he never does and that's jacking up the payments? If so, why isn't he documenting the overnight visits (you know, video, phone messages, pictures of DD in her pyjamas with that day's newspapers) and providing that documentation to CSA? And getting a solicitor involved to call the ex out on her lies? This all sounds very fishy to me, like he has some private arrangement with his ex that he doesn't want to tell you about and so is blaming it on CSA, or he is spending money on something else stupid and blaming his lack of funds on the nasty old ex because he thinks you'll buy it (because she *is* a piece of work).

Is there any way your OH would agree to couples counseling? And, if he won't, maybe you could go on your own? If the two of you aren't on the same page about money, it will only get more stressful with a child in the mix.

I'm really sorry, Lilly.    I so want things to work out for you, and your OH needs to be making accommodations in his lifestyle if he wants this too. At least with DE the ticking of the clock is slowed right down, esp. as you're nowhere near 40, let alone 50. I know that's not much consolation when you've been dreaming of a baby for years and had a previous loss, though.    

Sending lots of good wishes your way.


----------



## Lilly83

Hi CH 

Thanks for the reply! He hasn't told them about overnights as she will stop access if he upsets her he says, he has his DD 3 days/2 nights EOW at his mums (his DD lives in another city) he says he had to have her 52 nights a year to pay the lower rate as as he cancelled twice in a year, once for egg collection and once when we had the MC last month that he doesn't gave her 52 so can't apply for it anyway, his ex has a son she doesn't see and pays csa to his dad but gets her accountant to fiddle the books at her business so she only pays a few quid, she is nearly 50 with 3 kids to 3 men

He had got better with money as I had really kept on at him and he had cut down his spending, at least I thought he had, he was ok to use his cc for immunes earlier this year but not now? Something doesn't sit right with me. I'm so worried those Frosties are my only chance to be a mum  

He gets paid more than double what he did when we met and I was paying the lions share of everything 70:/30  and now he gets paid a lot more than me we split 50/50, I wouldn't mind if he was paying off debt or saving but he is doing neither and just adding to his credit card it seems, I do love him but I need to weigh up if we have a future, it's not how I expectedy life to be at this point, I did have a lovely house and financial security with my ex but I wasn't happy, now we are renting and it seems in a mess financially due to him, just so fed up

L xx


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## CrazyHorse

Lilly83 said:


> He hasn't told them about overnights as she will stop access if he upsets her he says, he has his DD 3 days/2 nights EOW at his mums (his DD lives in another city) he says he had to have her 52 nights a year to pay the lower rate as as he cancelled twice in a year, once for egg collection and once when we had the MC last month that he doesn't gave her 52 so can't apply for it anyway, his ex has a son she doesn't see and pays csa to his dad but gets her accountant to fiddle the books at her business so she only pays a few quid, she is nearly 50 with 3 kids to 3 men


I call B.S. on the part about his ex cutting off access. She can try, but the courts will mandate that she allows him access to his daughter. He's correct about the 52 nights a year thing (see p. 27 at https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/325219/how-we-work-out-child-maintenance.pdf), but I think he's wrong that a couple of cancellations would affect the maintenance arrangements, particularly if he rescheduled later. I say this because CSA will make an assumption of "shared care" if both parents have agreed in principle to share care but haven't agreed on the number of overnights; in that scenario, CSA will reduce the child maintenance by 1/7th, just like in the 52-103 nights/year scenario. If he's more or less fulfilling his obligations and making reasonable efforts to reschedule dates when required by personal emergencies, I have difficulty believing that they wouldn't consider him as qualifying for the 1/7th reduction. And *especially* if he's typically having her 2 overnights a week -- how can he possibly have had less than 52 overnights in a year??!! Also, has he asked for a special expenses variation to cover the cost of the travel he must undertake to see DD? If he's having to have her at his mum's house and DD lives in another city, I bet he's spending more than £10 / week on travel costs (which is the cutoff above which you can apply for a variation on that basis).

Anyway, I do absolutely get that you love him and want to work through this if you can. I just get that indefinable sense that something fishy is going on, and he's giving you just enough info to try to make his explanation sound plausible, but not enough info to actually have insight into where the money's going. I hope you can get him to open up and actually start going over his expenses and credit card statements with you, so that you can plan your spending together and move forward with a united front. 

/links


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## Lilly83

Thanks for that link and info I really appreciate it

It's 2 nights every other week sorry, it's a 1.5-2 hour journey each way to see her too so it costs a fair bit which I get I got with a man with a child and I would never want her to go without nor not see her dad, but it just hurts to be told we can proceed with FET now because of it when he is earning a good wage way over the national average 

I asked for visibility on the money situ before ivf a couple of years ago but he wouldn't he said its private and couples don't usually do that, I asked could we sit down and list debt and outgoings with view to saving for a mortgage or ivf and he wouldn't 

The ex stopped access a few times for varios things so I get he doesn't want to upset her, my brother actually works in family law and arranged for him to have free advice and got all the court papers for him when she stopped access but he wouldn't do it then eventually she relented

Writing this down now I'm actually questioning what the hell am I doing! 

L xx


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## CrazyHorse

Lilly83 said:


> I asked for visibility on the money situ before ivf a couple of years ago but he wouldn't he said its private and couples don't usually do that, I asked could we sit down and list debt and outgoings with view to saving for a mortgage or ivf and he wouldn't


WTF!!! My DH and I have credit cards in our own names, but we have a shared encrypted file of account credentials and either of us is welcome to look at any account at any time. Our bank accounts are all joint, and I actually do all the day-to-day money management, investing, and tax filings even though he is the primary breadwinner (we have accounts and tax filings in two countries, he doesn't have time for all the paperwork). We combined most of our accounts when we got married because it's just so much easier for both parties to keep an eye on the big financial picture, and my parents and his parents have the same setup (joint accounts, separate credit cards with both parties having visibility into transaction history). I don't think that's the least bit unusual.

The fact he wouldn't look at cash flow for possible mortgage applications is very concerning. He may be kind of phobic about money, and tend to overspend when he's feeling nervous about it, and thus not want to look at the cold hard numbers -- I get that, because I have problems with those things when money is a major source of anxiety. But the fact that he won't even deal with his anxiety and look at the numbers with you -- I don't know, it would bother me.

Are you 100% sure he doesn't secretly gamble?


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## cosmopolitan4112008

Is he stingy regarding the house expenses?


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## Lilly83

He pays for half of everything at home, bills etc, rent and food, he transfers it me monthly, my ex who I bought a house with earnt a lot more than me and he did a spread sheet for all our outgoings and tweaked it so we had about the same disposable income/money for savings after so we paid about 40/60. I'm not saying we should now but when he earns about 40% more than me I kinda didn't expect him to spend all his extra money on himself, im not saying he should pay more but even if he paid debts off or saved with the extra money he has more than me a month I would be happy, I don't go out, drink, buy clothes, I have my hair cut twice a year and dye it at home, for me at our age we should be being sensible especially when we should be aiming to save for a mortgage and/or ivf

When we met he had no debt, non, he actually got his first  overdraft and credit card when we got together to try build a better credit rating then he started opening more cards just to spend more, he doesn't drink or smoke but £100 a month on hair cuts and beard trims is a joke! 

When I listed all my debts and outgoings and said can we make a plan for paying debts off he wouldn't, he said its private and his parents don't share info (mine always do)

I'm sure there's no gambling or other woman, apart from work he never goes out we are both home birds, and he used to leave his phone downstairs charging all night and leaves it when he goes the gym and showers unlocked so im sure there's no other big secrets just he is selfish and crap with money

I text him to say im going my mums for a week sunday but he hasn't replied, Im so so gutted we were supposed to be planning a FET week on Monday and now I question whether I can see a future, I want a proper grown up relationship not this mess 

L xx


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## CrazyHorse

I hope he comes to his senses and is willing to change his views about marriage being a financial partnership. You need to be able to plan your future together.


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## Lilly83

I really appreciate you listening and giving advice, it's helped me see I really need to sort this and show him how serious I think it is, as it stands now the FET is cancelled, I will update you with what next week brings, hoping he sees sense xx


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## MissMayhem

Ohh lily I'm so sorry this sounds an awful time for you.   I've had so many run ins with my husband about money and exes I really feel for you. I don't know much about the csa but know that there is an online calculator.you can use to estimate costs. Know I used it before when my stepdaughter was up every weekend and our payments never altered; we were in a similar boat to you as he would never challenge his ex either. She'd stopped contact briefly in the past too and no matter how much I tried to explain his rights to him he was still convinced that her (wealthy) family would take him to the cleaners.

I can't give tips on finances as your partner sounds more reluctant than mine was. In a way I was lucky as he had a track record of being bad with money so in order to stop almost constant arguments of it he allowed me to take control.  Our agreement was a joint bank account for both pays, a separate one for bills and a personal one each.  So we had a set amount in one account for bills and an allowance each per month. We could spend that on whatever we liked but when it was gone that was it. I saved most of mine for IVF he spent his on him.......but at least the arguments stopped. 

With regards to you saying we'll question why you're there, we won't lovely.  Most of us have been here and wondered the same about ourselves! 

Hope you manage to sort things soon. It's not fair that you have to deal with this on top of everything else, and I know from personal experience how devastating it is when they move the goal posts on us all of a sudden, I'm sure sometimes that they're just oblivious to the consequences for us, at least I hope they are. Big hugs to you, we're all here for you xxx


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## Molly99

Oh Lilly, I am so so sorry to hear that you've had to cancel your FET  My heart really goes out to you.

I think that this is one of the most challenging areas of being with a separated dad. They come with a hightened state of what's right (for them and that's often projected as what's right for the kids but it rarely is, they are just scared) and their 'need' for nothing to change or rock the boat. That's just not how relationships work though 

My DH honestly used to pay his entire wage into his ex girlfriend's account and she used to give him 'pocket money', it has taken us many rows and lots of tears to get to where we are today. I was desperate for us to go through the CSA as his ex used money as a control thing and it came down to emotional blackmail every month. As part of us becoming a couple, that had to change for me, I couldn't live with another woman having such control over our finances and emotional state, particularly as our primary reason for infertility was his vasectomy in the last few weeks of their relationship (that sounds so mean but its a very difficult reason to come to terms with).

DH also used to pay cash in hand for a few years before he set up a traceable direct debit. From what I researched though, these regular large cash withdrawals are still traceable and still able to be used for evidence of past payments. It is much easier to do this if it was a regular set amount each month though.

I spent a lot of time doing the CSA calculator and it always came up with much less than he was paying. Luckily, DH agreed to challenge it in the end because we also have a very run down house to convert and I was desperate for IVF. Despite all her attempts at bullying (including refusing to let him have the kids) she did agree to continuing a private arrangement but based on the new CSA calculated amount. My God, this is a woman that we actually had to take all the way to court because she wouldn't sign a parental responsibility for DH's son because he was born just before the automatic law came in (she was forced to by the courts though so maybe she realised that her reign of terror was coming to an end  ).

It's often all attempts at manipulation (it's worked before right) and lots of bluster and noise. Our DH's are so desperate to not upset the kids though in these situations or to jeopardise their ability to see them that they believe that their exes have heightened rights. Sadly for you, your DH's ex thinks and actually has managed to achieve such control of your lives. It's all control though, she doesn't actually have those rights. We had to say that we'd go for a legal access arrangement in the end and funnily enough her games stopped after that and we didn't need to pursue it.

Sorry, that's me off my soap box now! What I was trying to say is that it's blooming hard work to convince our DH's that they need to change and that their exes don't have the rights to limit access or demand unreasonable amounts of money. It's not right to have to live your own lives under such control and it certainly isn't healthy for anyone involved (including the kids).

Like you say Lilly, you need to show him now that this has affected you too and get him to think about this not in terms of his own self protection but in terms of protection of you _both __and _the kids.

Wishing you all the luck in the world with this, it's a really difficult thing that you're doing and you're amazing and strong for not giving up xxxx


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## Sbarky15

Hi Lilly, I don't think that sounds right either! There aren't many people who could afford to pay that each month. If he is in arrears, there is usually some kind of mutual agreement from the bloke and the CSA about much he can afford to pay each month. Has he set that payment up to get the arrears out of the way? If so surely it can be dropped, not sure how I would cope with her receiving that amount of money and having to put something like that on hold. x


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## Sbarky15

How is everyone? Lily, I hope you're keeping your chin up and are feeling better?
x


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## Molly99

I was thinking of everyone this morning too  

Hope that you are all ok.  

Lilly, how are you feeling?  Did you have the discussion with your DH? 

Sending you all big


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## Molly99

I had a little sad moment talking to DH earlier, no where near as sad as before but it's still such a funny feeling to wave my DH off back to where he used to live, doing something with his ex to watch their daughter at her sports day.  It's not like he even sits with his ex, it's just that thing that they will always share and that I'll never be a part of 

Oh, I've not had a negative moment for a very long time.  I'm having a little relapse tonight, sports days and school plays have always hurt.  Silly isn't it x


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## cosmopolitan4112008

Molly 99,  why don't you go with him? I know you're pregnant now, but in general.  What I understood from your previous posts, your relationship with the kids was  ok.


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## Molly99

Thank you Cosmo, I do have a fantastic relationship with my steppies. I've never met their mother though (and don't intend to), besides, I also feel that sports days and plays are for parents (my personal opinion, I think that it's amazing for step parents to go along to these things - it's just not for me) 

It's hard to sometimes know what the issue is really isn't, when there are so many issues to pick from! I think that I was just having a little down moment, I haven't had one in so long but my beautiful dog doesn't have long to live and was having a bad day and I'm starting to feel quite anxious about my 21 week scan on Tuesday. I honestly think that my DH just phoned at the wrong time, had it been 5 minutes either side of my little pity party then I really don't think that it would have bothered me as I'm in such a different place now.

However, what's bothered me _now _ is how DH reacted. I explained that it had nothing to do with the kids but he slipped back to a year or so ago and started acting really depressed and end of the world. We've been through so much over the years, I can understand that it's hard but we didn't even remotely row or even spend more than 5 minutes talking about it in the first place. I apologised and told him that I just felt a little sad yesterday because of our woof and the scan. Now, in his head, this is something much more symptomatic and obviously related to steppie issues.

I don't have any steppie issues though, I love them and pretty much accept everything these days  Urgh, what this does to you, why can't I show a different emotion without it sending him off into a whirlwind of silliness


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## Molly99

Urgh, just waiting to meet my steppies mother for the 1st time.  I'm having to do all the pick ups now after DH had some bad seizures and had to surrender his driving licence for 12 months.

For the first time in 10 years,  she's suddenly now keen to take the kids to a drop off point rather than them being picked up at her house.  Wouldn't you know it!  She's dying to meet me apparently,  what fun she says! After all her threats and nastiness,  I hope she's grown up. 

Poop, just noticed a tea stain on my dress


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## MissMayhem

Keep breathing Molls, keep breathing.   Don't let her get to you one teeny, weeny, little bit.xxx


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## Molly99

Thank you my lovely MissMayhem xxx  

Phew, all went well.  I displayed my tea stain loud and proud    pick up in a public place, so it was short, sweet and a bit weird.  I actually felt a bit sorry for her.

I'm a few inches taller


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## MissMayhem

That's my girl, knew you'd walk it!!     xxx


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## cosmopolitan4112008

I onto know why those ex wives can't just move on with their lives instead of being nasty.

well done Molly. You are a lady!


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## Sbarky15

How is everyone? 

Not spoken for a while. Had major dramatics, the day I found out that I was going in for a (salpingectomy - that just turned out to be a salpingostomy!) the eldest daughter decided that she wanted to start coming back to see her dad again (after not coming to stay at our house for nearly 4 years!) It was a major shock to me and caused a stream of emotional eruptions, considering I was already struggling with the other 2 and me losing a fallopian tube. 

Anyway, the melt down resulted in me referring myself for some counselling. Not sure that it has helped yet, but I am managing to keep my emotions under control. 

Anyone else have anything to share x


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## A J

Hi Mrs Barky,
I have sworn by counselling at various periods of my life I'm so glad it seems to be making an impact. I hope you continue to feel stronger and stronger and don't let the current situation take over...remember YOU are important xx

Not a huge deal of news (at least not on the fertility front). DH on the other hand doesn't see his son as much as he did. It was every other Day and the Thursday evening the week between. However, the boy is 13 and does whatever he wants...which is to go out with his mates and not spend it with his father. Suits me fine! I know it's mean as DH had been hurt by it, but I have my husband for weekends. We have a better quality of life, if not only for the fact that I don't have to listen to what they have been doing together which never included me. 
I feel DH brought some of it on himself by giving his son too much freedom...whatever he wanted to do..wherever he wanted to go etc, etc. But, now has backfired, not helped by the ex!!!

Anyway, rant over....otherwise hoping for a miracle with my forthcoming DE cycle-...praying like mad   and far less stressed than I used to be partly because of the above and also being back on supply teaching, no late nights and weekend spent working!

Hope everyone else is doing OK

AJ xx


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## Sbarky15

wow AJ i have just read your signature you really have been through the mills!!

It's such a horrendous situation to be in, isn't it? I know exactly what u mean, when the kids come my mood instantly changes when I hear those precious words"I want to go home," like you, I feel mean on DH. But one thing the counselling did teach me was to be kind to myself as they're natural feelings, so I don't beat myself up for it as much any more. 

I'm still waiting for a follow up appointment following my failed salpingostomy & ovarian drilling. Which was 4 months ago.


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## Molly99

Hello ladies, I'm so sorry to read that you're having tricky times.

Mrs Barky, that's brilliant that counselling helped you.  It's funny how hard it can be to accept natural feelings isn't it.  I hope that you get your follow up appointment soon, what a ridiculous wait   It's such a shame that DH's daughter came forward just when you're at such a difficult time, things seem to happen this way x

AJ, we've reached this inevitable stage with my steppies too.  SS is also 13 and has a real little social life now, funnily enough though it is my SD (who's 10) that has the most hectic party life though and really wants to stay at her Mum's so that she doesn't miss anything.  It's really hard when we live quite a distance away and means that she misses quite a bit but we only see them once a fortnight now    Wishing you so much luck with your cycle, that's brilliant that you're going in with so much less stress  

All good with us!  My steppie's mum has even collected the kids from closer to us, the first time that's ever happened.  DH is worried that her super helpfulness is masking something sinister.  I can't but hope that this is just a new phase  

Hope that everyone else is ok xx


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## Sbarky15

I know it's mean but I can not WAIT for this stage haha


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## A J

It will happen, although I never thought it would! I put up with some real s..t around it over the years, but knew if I persevered it would pay one day pay off. DH has 2 sons who I have never had a relationship with. His eldest doesn't want a relationship with DH since he split with the ex so the younger one was doted on. I remember calling him 'the milky bar kid' once and his car seat 'the princes throne' as you can imagine a lot of bitterness & resentment all around. 
I learnt from these early comments that I was doing a lot of damage to my marriage so I switched off from all of it and would use the days they spent together as me days- shopping, spas etc. I would hate hearing about it all when he came home but it was literally 10 mins and my counselor helped me with the coping mechanisms.

Be patient hun xxxx


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## Sbarky15

You see this is my main issue.. I have no problems with my husband having contact with his kids at all, in fact, if it wasn't there I would certainly encourage it! But my husband ALWAYS wants them at my house and ALWAYS wants me involved with them. I can see why, and from his point of view I can understand it. But I don't want it. I don't want them sleeping my house Friday to Sunday when I work Monday to Friday. I felt awful about it before I had the counselling. I thought I was bitter and selfish, but my counsellor has taught me to forgive myself for it as it's natural. 

When DH used to hint about having them for the full weekends again (he did this before he got with me, then it stopped through the kids choice, now they want to start it again) I used to subconsciously go in a mood. I didn't even know I was doing it but it would always result in a row. He asked me again (very kindly a week after my counselling finished) and I said NO. I told him I didn't want it and that I wasn't ready, I was NOT changing my mind nor was I going to feeling guilty about it, and that if he wanted to see them more he should do so but without me. This angers him cause like I said before, he wants to just keep brining them the house to stay over. Just take them your mums or an play area for god sake   

I too have said things about the kids that get misinterpreted. Especially when I get the comments from the children about how life was before me lol.

It usually results in the "You knew I had kids when we got together" or "you'll understand when you have your own" responses which tremendously winds me up lol!!


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## A J

I totally understand where you are coming from. I have also had...you know I had children when we met. I was even given the ultimatum in the early days....we can't have a relationship if you can't accept my kids etc, etc, etc. 
I did try at first but it became evident that everything revolved around DS...he became the adult and I had to stop myself putting on my teachers hat and trying to tell DH where he was going wrong. He was trying too hard to make a relationship work with a son he was terrified of losing. He did nearly lose me in the process on many occasions. And, now he feels like he has lost his son...I have to stop myself from saying, I told you so. The child has always been the one to decide what they do and now he has chosen his friends.

I incidentally never had sleepovers in our house...for a mixture of reasons. I wouldn't have been comfortable and DS is such a mummy's boy he wouldn't have wanted to and there is no way she would have allowed it anyway.

Having step children isn't easy for many but when you add infertility into the mixture it can become almost impossible at times. But, we are strong and must draw on this at the darkest times.

AJ xx


----------



## lilacfairy

Hi all, I've only read the last few pages, but I was a little surprised because my experience with my step son is so different. Despite all the S*** going on with DH's ex, it seems we have a pretty good situation overall.

My ss is 13 and he moved in with us full-time about a year ago. I remember times before that when I was sometimes annoyed when he came over for weekends and that meant I couldn't spend as much time with DH as I wanted. Despite that we had a good enough relationship (ss and I). But I always expected that the wee one would eventually end up at ours because his mum is such a horrendous b****!!! Well he decided to live with us at the age of 12 because she could not tolerate at all that he was growing up and started thinking for himself. She has given us a lot of grief within the last year, including an assault on DH and a law suit for withholding contact (her son doesn't want to see her). And in amongst that is us ttc unsuccessfully!

Despite all this I have to admit that having him around is one of the best things that happened because I can live my maternal instincts on a daily basis. The relationship to my step-son has got even better and I think we're really close now. Admittedly it's not too hard to be the good one with his mum kicking up such a drama. Having him around really gives me something to hold on to because I can tell myself that even if I never have my own children, at least I was able to shape this young person's life and personality in a positive way. And it also opened my heart for adoption if this were our final option in the future.

I realise that my experience is unusual because most of the time step children have a good relationship with their mum. Luckily for me (sadly not for my ss), circumstances were in our favour.


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## magicpillow

That's really lovely and inspiring to hear Lilic!  It gives me hope if we decide to pursue adoption in the future.


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## cosmopolitan4112008

That's good to hear Lilac. Could it be that the boy's mother didn't fuel him against you? Have you ever had any indications thst she spoke ill of you?


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## lilacfairy

Haha, yes she hates me! Apparently she's called me the worst names! But he's angry at her for that because he knows it's not true. It's the same with his dad.  That's one of the reasons he decided to live with us, he was angry because he could see behind her games.


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## cosmopolitan4112008

That boy is clever and has a common sense. I think boys, if older and alone (no sisters) react differently. My husband 's ex wasn't happy that they got divorced and she tried to irritate me in different ways. When she couldn't,  I'm pretty sure she instructed the kids to be rude toward my mum when she came for visits. Last time, it happened that I was in the UK and my mum stayed in my house till I got back. They came and wanted to stay there as well because their mother had travelled, leaving them behind.  She knew we were away and she suspected it was the fertility treatment.  They tried to bother me via my mum so that I would fail. It ended up by being thrown out of the house by my husband.  When we came back,  he spoke to them, but not in front of me. They lied of course. I stopped any contact. He is ok with them. Before,  they rarely kept in touch and after I got a child (y hey were 100% I wouldn't ), the oldest girl has been.keeping in touch daily by sending jokes, videos,  silly things. It's amazing how sick personalities can be.


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## lilacfairy

Aw, so sorry to hear that. I'm also shocked how devious some people can be. Hurt feelings and rejection is hard to bear for anyone, but in some it brings out the worst. Such a shame that the children take that at face value sometimes. It sounds like it was the best for you to stop contact with them. Maybe when they're older they will become a bit more reflective and insightful.

What gets me is how our men ever got involved with such women!?


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## cosmopolitan4112008

I don't think that the kids will be any better. The.oldest one is 25 and tthe youngest 14. The oldest one was better when she was 19. The mother's  side of family is known for certain nastiness with people. I know people they know and I. Never heard anythingpositive about them. MMost od the time people complain about their behaviour. I don't understand women who get divorced, but still want something from their exes. If I were in their shoes, I would be happy I got rid of the problems. I.think.those women feel their ex husband's owe them something. In some cases,that's probably the case,but in any case,if she had marriage with such a type,better to be away from him. My concern now us my boy because I don't know what they are capable of. They might push him or do something and day it was an accident.  Thank God I will be at home a d although I font speak to them, I will not allow my Don be alone when they come (the boy comes sometimes to our house regardless of my husband being absent.they  are showing the house is their as well and show up any time.


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## Sbarky15

completely agree with your statement lilac! My husbands ex and I couldn't be more different. She has spent three months working since she left school (In which time she got pregnant by her current partner behind my hubby's back!) and has had 8 kids in this time (she's 25,  3 of them are my husbands). I'm 26, and known nothing but education and work and find it hard imagining myself with one child never mind 8!! I find her embarrassing and I suppose she's nothing to do with me really lol!! But I do cringe when SC talk about their brothers and sisters lol how bad is that!


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