# SW opinion on the dog- advice please?



## A J (Oct 2, 2011)

Hi,
We have been matched with a 4 month old little pink and have had the ok to proceed from her SW.
HOWEVER!! She has raised her concerns over one of our dogs. He is a rescued Patterdale Terrier who we found abandoned in the forest last year. He is a very timid and loving dog who will growl when another adult (except DH and myself) approaches him. When she visited yesterday with a link  worker he had been kept in the kitchen and then growled at them both when they looked around the house.
We have another meeting next week for us to come up with a plan of what we will do to prevent anything awful happening.
All I can suggest are gates, being extra cautious, maybe a doggie behaviourist?
Anyone any suggestions...as always, so near, so far!

Thanks in advance
AJ x


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## Anjelissa (Jan 11, 2007)

Hi AJ,

Congratulations on your match, I bet you're so excited 

Re discussion around pets, one thing we were asked (and this was about our cat) was what would we do if she _did_ happen to scratch/bite our little one?
This was/is never going to happen as our beloved fur-baby is quite a senior girl, extremely gentle, and would have to be pushed to the extreme to hurt anyone, and then would be a scratch not a bite.

However, we were asked this question all the same, so firstly we just explained all we would do immediately (in a first aid capacity for a scratch).
I then went on to reiterate that as we could only imagine our cat scratching anyone as an extreme self defence measure we would work harder on teaching our lo how to behave around animals and being gentle with them etc.
We've been proven right, as she actually warns our lo's (if they get too excitable around her) by patting them on the hand with her paw, never any claws out, bless her, she even sleeps outside their doors in the evening as if 'guarding' them 

We totally understood why they had to cover this though, at the end of the day they don't know our cat, and all animals may understandably be unpredictable if they feel threatened.

I know a dog is a slightly different matter, but the point I'm making is that you may get this question. It surprised us a little, so just thought it worth mentioning.

Ang x


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## Barbados Girl (Jul 7, 2012)

There was a good discussion about this recently on AUK and lots of input from dog owners. 

I am not a dog person and admit I am not very positive about dogs around children particularly those from traumatic backgrounds (children and dogs!) so I admit to being a bit biased but are you absolutely comfortable that the dog will be totally ok with a noisy, screaming, grabbing baby? When she can crawl what if she follows the dog around, what if she reaches out to grab her tail, what if she pulled her fur, all things babies can do in a split second before you can intervene and before they are old enough to understand? Are you 100% sure that the dog would never react and bite her. I should imagine that is what the sw is concerned about this if your dog is nervous/sensitive enough over his territory that he growls when he sees a stranger in his space.


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## Mel (Jan 1, 2002)

Hi AJ, Congrats on your link   


We were asked by the senior social worker at introductions with our little one to get a dog behaviourist in and do a report for them, we have a german shepherd, she is totally fine around people and especially our children but she hates other dogs, she was perfectly behaved around all the sw's that visited.

We did agree to this (although annoyed that it was left so late in the day) and at the cost of SS not ours. 


The behaviourist came once our lo had already been placed   


We also had a cage (she is cage trained anyway - does not have one anymore but she is older) and put a gate up between our living room and conservatory so that the dog had her own space and could go out in the conservatory and her own space if the children got too much for her.


I think as long as you have some space for your dog of it's own and gates up there is not much more you can do.


Hope it all goes ok for you and try not to worry too much.


Mel
x


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## A J (Oct 2, 2011)

Thank you very much for your replies and different insights. 
We are fortunate in that we have some spare rooms in the house so putting up some gates and making rooms dog only or baby only should work?!?!? 
We are also going to contact a dog behaviourist, which Mel I expect at this stage we will have to pick up the bill, for a report as our SW says that they want to know that we have thought of everything. 
Hopefully when they come back next week things will be ok  

My goodness, this is as stressful as anything else I have been through in my journey so far!
AJ x


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## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

Deep breaths.  

Presumably you're already approved, and have had a dog assessment?  I'm asking because it shouldn't be the role of a placing SW to second-guess your approval, only the suitability of the match.  Obviously the dog is part of the match, and that's probably the angle she's coming from, but bear that in mind.

I'd say gating, crate training if necessary.  I'd also write a short paper on the benefits of having a pet, particularly an 'adopted' pet!  And list any evidence you have of your dog's behaviour around children.    We felt that the questionnaire we had to fill out about our cats was negative and inappropriately worded, so we wrote a piece about how we thought having cats had opportunities for therapeutic applications for our child.  

Good luck!


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## A J (Oct 2, 2011)

Thanks AoC...they have an unusual way of working in social work land but I do understand and appreciate them being cautious. As you said really if there was an issue it should have been pointed out before and not delay things at this stage. I will write something along the lines that you have suggested and hopefully put things to rest.
We have been given a date for matching panel of 19th Feb and I really want it sorted and not have to wait until the month after.
I keep thinking about her getting older and changing week by week....I'm really impatient at times!

Thank you all   for your help and advice

AJ x


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## Waiting_patiently (Dec 4, 2013)

Hiya, 

We have a Scottish Terrior who was my absolute baby, he can be adorable but at the same time extremely grumpy and obviously sensed my nervousness as each time our SW came he barked, growled etc, we were given the 'if you had to would you rehome the dog' question and of course we said yes, BUT only if there was evidential facts that made a need for it as I would be absolutely devastated.

Anyway in our home we were able to put a stair gate on the kitchen door, and one also on the lounge door, meaning the entrance to the house is a gap in-between the two, therefore any lo that was in the lounge could not be reached by the dog if enclosed in the kitchen, and vice versa.

So we started putting our dog in their at night and when people came to the door etc and he took to it really well (10yrs old now and Scotties dont change habits easily lol!)

We were fortunate enough to be matched to a lo that came home at 9mths old, we've had a few moans from the dog here and there but more of a 'why is here here all the time moan' but then he loves the food that comes his way from the high chair lol, lo is not phased by the dog at all, we quite often have them both together in the lounge as long as one of us is there constantly of course, but to be honest the dog gets fed up and wants back to his retreat bless him (lo is now 13mths so lots of toys and noise around now).

As long as you show you have covered all what if's, and separation space etc you will be fine. Good luck!


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## A J (Oct 2, 2011)

Hi Waiting_Patiently, thank you for taking time to reply and your really good advice. 

We also had the same question 'would we consider re homing the dog' but no like you said he (and my other dog a Jack Russell who is also a rescue dog that I have had for 9 years) are my furry babies and have helped keep me sane on many occasions. I have 'adopted' both of them and I couldn't turn my back on them now...neither could DH.

We are going to get a couple of gates in before she comes back on Wed with one at the kitchen so he can see out as I think that was part of the problem last week and why he growled when they opened the door. Plus one up at the living room.
We need to start as we mean to go on and get the dogs used to being behind the gates when we need them to be....I'm sure it won't be as hard as it seems right now. But will take some adjusting all round.

I'm also glad to hear that those of you who have replied who do have dogs/ cats and understand the situation have managed to work things through...its been very encouraging

Thank you  

AJ x


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## Waiting_patiently (Dec 4, 2013)

A J said:


> Hi Waiting_Patiently, thank you for taking time to reply and your really good advice.
> 
> We also had the same question 'would we consider re homing the dog' but no like you said he (and my other dog a Jack Russell who is also a rescue dog that I have had for 9 years) are my furry babies and have helped keep me sane on many occasions. I have 'adopted' both of them and I couldn't turn my back on them now...neither could DH.
> 
> ...


I think your right to do that, our gates went up this time last year and our lo didnt find us and come home until September, my 10yr old puppy used to sleep at the end of my bed and everything yet now his home is the kitchen unless he comes in with us to the lounge if its not manic, sounds awful but like you mentioned, he's fine just being able to see and hear whats going on, and once lo is in bed thats it gates are opened and he has full run until bed time, works good for us, he still growls a SW each time she comes though haha!


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## Arrows (Nov 9, 2008)

Since our son came home at 10mthsI must admit he has been bitten and scratched many times. However, this wasn't until he got older and started deliberately hurting her, getting in her face, throwing things at her etc.We have taught him and continue to reinterate that if she growls, hisses, spits or wags her tail she is cross and he needs to leave her alone. He's now 3yrs old and totally able to understand these warnings and still chooses to pester her so it's his own fault and he knows he doesn't get much sympathy. I must add that he also hits, bites, scratches and throws things at me and DH when he is cross and knows that the consequence is time out and still chooses to behave that way towards us too! He's very much in a testing boundaries phase!!!


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## scoobydooby (Nov 5, 2013)

When our dog was assessed the person who did it told me we had a brilliant, well trained dog who would be fantastic with kids, the reality once our first lo was home was a different story. We too at the time of assessment had been of the attitude 'no one is making us get rid of the dog, he's going nowhere!' However, the dog became very jealous towards lo and the attention she was getting, and the dog would show his teeth if our lo went near him (never too close as we had put safety gates up in every room 12 months previous, and the dog had been crate trained since day one of being a pup). Like other posters our dog was our best friend, he was there for us during all our failed attempts at IVF, he was our baby, BUT we would never ever risk the safety of our child if there was even a slight doubt towards the dogs behaviour.

No one can safely guarantee that a dog is safe around children, the certificate from the dog assessor wasn't worth the paper it was written on! Now we have lo's younger sibling living with us too we know we absolutely made the right decision in rehoming him. He is now living with a work colleague who has no children and can devote the same amount of time to him, and give him the same long walks that we used to, so he is loving it. I would not entertain having another animal in our house until the children are at least old enough to learn how to treat it, dogs especially, with their first instinct when feeling threatened being to bite its simply a risk we are not prepared to take.


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## A J (Oct 2, 2011)

Arrows and scoobydoo, thanks both.
Interesting comments I guess every situation is different...I'm just hoping it all works out for the best as I love my dogs to bits and will do everything possible to make it work. Fortunately DH works in a job where he takes them to work with him everyday where they have long runs and his attention (he works in forestry) so they are not at home craving my attention all the time.
See what SW says on Wed
AJ x


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## A J (Oct 2, 2011)

A quick update for those of you who were kind in replying.
The baby SW came today with our SW when we were going to come up with a plan when she suddenly said with 'will you have him rehomed or it doesn't go ahead'.  Both our SW and ourselves completely shocked but we are not agreeing as not even given us a chance to see a behaviourist who is booked for Tuesday.
Upset, angry and every imaginable feeling ATM. I understand her concerns and you can never be too careful but we were willing to go to any lengths, but not this.
AJ x


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## Primmer (May 1, 2012)

AJ - that sounds awful, did child's sw explain it at all. Seems very extreme and unreasonable to say rehome dogs or you can't have the child without any report or other evidence that dogs could be harmful.


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## HannahLou (May 22, 2011)

We got a letter from out vet to back us up when we said out giant staffy was a big softie! He did it for free too so that might be worth a try x


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## AoC (Oct 28, 2008)

That is ridiculous and beyond her remit, AJ!!!  I get so angry about the bullying/blackmailing tactics that seem to be employed!

((((((hugs)))))))


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## A J (Oct 2, 2011)

Thank you all so much for supporting me here. I really feel like I have been kicked in the teeth! Its like a miscarriage all over again ( only this time we were so much closer) with matching panel which was only 3 weeks away its all gone.
I go from feeling upset to angry and can't stop crying. How dare she lead us on to come out with that?
Anyway, we are pretty stuffed now as according to our SW the baby's SW is probably now thinking that we will put a dog before a baby which we actually have and also when she reports back to her manager they now know that we have a dog who in someone's opinion is unsuitable. How she has come to that decision like you said Primmer is beyond belief- he really is a lovely little thing (I know I'm biased)

Our SW is bringing her own manager along next week to talk to us as looks like we have to go with another LA now. As we were told on the telephone today its not very often a baby girl comes along which is what I now know I want being so close, seeing her picture, being encouraged by SW to choose a name, tell everyone, prepare adoption leave etc,etc. A complete mess!!


Really sorry, I just realised I have ranted here...
AJ x


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## Lizard39 (Nov 25, 2011)

Hi AJ,

I'm not an animal person, so hope I don't sound out of order or upset you. 

You are right it's 'not very often a baby girl comes along' especially at the moment in the world of adoption and you also comment that 'that is now what you want being so close'. I hate to say it, but the chances of being matched with another tiny pink are very very slim. 

Do you have any friends or family with whom you would consider re-homing your dog? That way you could still see him/her and perhaps in months to come they could come back to you? If you do, it would be worth going back to the baby's SW tomorrow and saying, sorry for your quick response today of not re-homing but you caught us off-guard. However, you have now thought it over and actually your dog can be re homed to family/friends. If you don't have friends/family who you dog could go to maybe you could reconsider re homing to a stranger as otherwise (wrongly) you could be waiting a very long time to be a mummy as other SW could say exactly the same especially at the moment with an abundance of willing adopters. 

If you did rehome your dog, trust me that your daughter would help ease the pain - we  had the good fortune of being matched with a tiny baby pink and oh my gosh she is our world. We fell in love with her the day we meet her and know how incredible amazing our journey has been to have such a young daughter and experience all of her 'firsts' with us. 

Big hugs as not an easy decision


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## crazyspaniel (Sep 12, 2012)

I am an animal person (hence the name  ) and I have to say I agree with Lizard.
I do appreciate how hard it must be but re homing with a friend or family would be the best outcome for you xxx
Sw share information and this really wouldn't reflect well on you... It's hard and it's not fair but you may well have to choose  

Really don't want to upset you but think you have to be very realistic here xx


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## MummyElf (Apr 11, 2013)

That really sucks AJ. I have two dogs and would have really struggled with this. When the SWs all visited about our daughter we actually put them in the garden (it was a beautiful day) with an abundance of chews as one in particular gets excited. 

The SW who came re our daughter was a total bully, I'm glad she didn't see the dogs or ask to, as she was the sort to cause trouble. She was a real bully and made us feel on trial throughout when it was meant to be a pleasant meeting to tell us about our potential daughter (who is our daughter now).

I'd rehome with friends in your situation and bring him back when the adoption is finalised.

I've got two children and can honestly say in 18 months they've never been left alone with the dogs; both were crawling etc when they came home, and there were no issues because we didn't let there be. If you LET a crawling baby pull a dog's tail and harass it then face the consequences - you jus don't let it happen, plain and simple, and then there are no issues. If you sense the dog has had enough you remove one or the other.

I couldn't part with my dogs so we took every step and precaution to keep SS happy. It has all been fine. Dogs and kids all best of friends.


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## Barbados Girl (Jul 7, 2012)

Sorry if I am missing something or being insensitive because I am not a dog person but is the sw's concern not that the dog growls at people coming into his territory and there could be a query about how he might react to a baby? 

I have to say that if I were a sw with a four month old healthy pink with adopters queuing up and I visited a home where a dog growled at me, I would look at other families if the adopters were not happy to re home the dog. I will be completely honest that dogs scare me and dogs that growl at me scare me and I hate my brother's enormous and skittish dog going anywhere near my pixie and I cannot personally understand how you feel.  What I can offer you is the perspective of someone who feels very differently to you and it could be that the child's sw feels the same way as I do. I appreciate that this feels very unfair to you as you love your dog and feel you know him best but it is the sw that has to make the choice, and choice she has. Perhaps think of it like this: as a non dog person I find it very difficult to reconcile the two notions that have been suggested that the dog will be a wonderful thing for he baby and the baby will be safe yet the dog has to be separated off with gates. It may be there is another reason for this I am not getting but it just seems to be that the dog needs to be physically kept away from the baby which suggests that the baby would not be safe around the dog.

I am afraid whether you see it as right or wrong, sws expect you to put "their" children before your dogs and expect that if your child has the kind of attachment or developmental difficulties later on which might mean the child was cruel to pets or that child needed the kind of life changing support that meant you had no time for your dogs then the sws would need to know it would be the pets that are re-homed.

If you feel you have to stick to your guns and not re-home your dog I just think you need to be at peace with the fact you may be in for a longer wait, a more difficult to place child or a sw who gets it- who is a dog person and will happily place a baby with you.

I hope I have not offended you but I am afraid you do have a choice to make.


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## DRocks (Sep 13, 2013)

I don't have dogs, but do have cats that are my fur babies so understand the deep love.
But the reality is I want to be a mum, and a mum to a baby pink like you.
I would re home my cats in a heartbeat to fulfil this dream, it would break my heart but I would do it. I really hope this doesn't reflect badly on you and your given future opportunities.


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## Mel (Jan 1, 2002)

Oh how I feel for you hun, especially when your dog as been through so much with you and is very much part of your family, hugs to you.

I think I would possibly do what some of the girls are suggesting and ask a friend or close relative to have the dog for a while, you can adjust to being a family of three and then maybe try introducing the dog slowly (without putting the child at risk), if it does not work out then think of a long term foster placement for your dog.

It is extremely hard and as much as I love our dog, I think I would be inclined to go down the route of finding a friend or relative that wouldn't mind looking after the dog for a while, especially if it meant I was getting a little pink and fulfilling my dream of becoming a mummy. 

I do understand your frustration and how hurt you must be feeling right now, you must be in a right turmoil, you do what you think is best for you hun, none of us are in your shoes.

Sending huge hugs

x x x


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## A J (Oct 2, 2011)

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

I contacted our SW today to asked her to put forward to LO's SW about us rehoming dog temporarily but she seems to think there won't be any turning back now. She thinks the SW wouldn't be able to work with us now

I'm really angry at everything right now especially DH who was the one who said no to re-homing in Wed meeting without consulting with me. I know I feel the same way as him but think it would have been better to consider it over night and come to the conclusion that I have tried to put forward now. I haven't spoken to him since Wed night so things are really awful right now plus I resent the dog too....nuts as I love him to bits (and the dog!   ,)

LO SW wasn't in work today so nothing done until next week  

AJ x


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## teamug (Feb 26, 2014)

Hi AJ, really sorry to hear the SW decision based on your dog, we have a dog and got asked the question would we re-home him, we had a plan that if we did need to take him out for a while that a friend would have him for a while and then we would re-introduce him back in slowly so we could then all be a family together, they really seemed to like this idea, so maybe for future reference you could suggest doing this   hope this helps


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## A J (Oct 2, 2011)

Thanks Teamug...that was what I suggested yesterday but too late for this LO. We did say though from the start and at approval panel that if we had to we would get the dogs, as we have 2 of them, re-homed. DH point was that there is no evidence that the one in question is any risk to babies, any more than our other dog The LO SW was actually on our approval panel......the meeting on Wednesday was to put a plan such as this in place but she came up with the ultimatum out of the blue. Our SW is going to question her decision on Monday, but the deed is done now. 
I can't stop thinking about the LO and the picture of her we saw, people who knew have had to be told and that has been tough....

For next time we will have to make it perfectly clear that we will get one or both of them re-homed....I'm just wondering how common is this that dogs need rehoming in order to bring a LO into a home?

DH and I are speaking today which is something I guess xx


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