# A baby at 66 for desperate divorcee



## poots (Jan 28, 2009)

Any thoughts on this one?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1182919/A-baby-66-desperate-divorcee-set-Britains-oldest-mother.html

poots xx


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## **ElaineW** (Mar 1, 2009)

Gawd shes a year older than my mum !! But she doesnt look it which is in her favour.
Good luck to her I say--We all dont know what the future is and take each day as it comes.
The child will prob not want for anything xx


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## loobylou713 (May 8, 2005)

I will be doing the same in years to come don't think i can give up trying.


linda
xxx


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## Dee Jay (Jan 10, 2005)

I read it on the front page today and thought wow that is old to be a new Mum - but I also thought that the baby is obviously very much wanted and I would assume will be really loved - I suppose people will question it and probably think that it's wrong but I'm certain that the yearning to be a Mum doesn't diminish with the passing of the years I'm sure it gets stronger. 

Typical tabloid headline "Desperate Divorcee" just why is she desperate? how can they justify calling her desperate?

I hope that all FF's will wish her well.

I for one wish her a happy pregnancy and hope that her dream comes true with a healthy baby,

lol
Dxxx


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## Teoroy (Oct 1, 2004)

I understand her overwhelming desire, but she doesn't know what she's let herself in for! Sleepless nights etc and without support...i don;t think she'll go to many baby groups either....

I wonder if she could breastfeed though...


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## Jane D (Apr 16, 2007)

hi

Whatever i think about this story, I would like to know who it was who went to the papers about her.  Obviously not the lady in question as she is reluctant to answer the press.  She looks younger than she is and I hope everything goes ok for her.

Jane


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

I dont think she will hav many sleepless nites.she can afford a live-in-nanny!


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## shortie66 (Feb 6, 2008)

Jane  it was probably someone who wanted to make a few quid, parasites!!!!  Good luck to her, dont think i could keep trying for that long tho


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## Bree (Mar 21, 2007)

Plenty of men become fathers in their 60's, 70's and even 80's! That doesnt make the news does it!! She seems an intelligent woman and must have thought this through . Perhaps she will get a younger relative (or perhaps younger partner??) involved in the childs upbringing so that if she does pop her clogs in her 80's there will be some-one to continue guidance and support. 
  There are lots of kids who run away from terrible home lives in their teens. They are the ones bereft of  parental support at a tender age and far worse off than this ladies child will be. I expect this l/o will have a privelidged life and be much loved too.
Bree xx


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## cookies (Jul 27, 2004)

I say good luck to her   each to their own.


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## Truffle80 (Nov 17, 2008)

I think this should be about the child and not how much the woman in question wants a baby.  During my years of trying for a baby and various ops/tx I have always been conscious that my desire for a child should never become a quest at the expense of any child I finally concieve.  My personal view is that no matter how much money she has to lavish on the child and pay for support etc having such an older mum will have some quite significant downsides for the child such as losing their mother at a young age, possibly poor health which may mean they have to care for an elderly parent while they are very young, lack of energy for the child, high risk of complications for the child etc.
While I do wish her all the best a part of me can't help feeling that this has been quite a selfish act on the part of the mother and I think the reality of childcare at 66 will be almost impossible to keep up with.


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## Lesley08 (May 4, 2008)

I have to say I agree with Truffle I think the headlines are disgraceful and sexist but I do think 66 is too old to be having a baby - there has to be a cut off and at 66 no-one knows what might happen health wise its just too risky for the child. I hope all goes well in this particular case but overall I think its a very selfish act.

Lesley xx


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## poots (Jan 28, 2009)

I can understand her desire - based on where this discussion is taking place, I'm sure we all can.  

However, I feel sorry for the poor little one, as it is unavoidable that he/she will lose their mother at a very young age, and that is a devastating thing to go through at any age.  

She looks fit and healthy now, which is good, but that is no guarantee of ongoing good health.  My MIL and FIL were very fit, travelling two or three times a year, looking after their grandchildren, having a more active social life than me!, and at Xmas partying with the rest of us until the early hours.  Now, 4 months later, one is in a care home and the other can barely make it to the kitchen to make a cup of tea.  At that age, you have less resilience and the smallest thing can be the start of a rapid decline. (They are both 77)

I wish her and the baby luck, but regardless of the outcome of our tx, DH and I will not still be trying at 66, it is not fair to the baby.

poots xx


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Plenty of people - particularly those more well-off members of our society - are living to 100 these days. I wouldn't say 34 is extremely young to lose your mum. It's lots younger than one would like of course, but everyone's assuming she's going to leave a traumatised teenager, which will likely not be the case.

Let's face it, if she's healthy enough to carry a child at 66 she's likely to live to a grand old age.


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## fluffyhelen9999 (May 13, 2005)

Good luck to her is what I say.  At any age you can't really know what is in the future health wise etc.  I had my children at 27 and 30 (so a relatively average age) and have had non stop health problems and 5 operations since my first baby.  I didn't see that coming before I had children!  Anyway she looks amazing for her age and having a baby will help keep her young too.
Helen x


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## Essex Girl (Apr 3, 2005)

This may sound a bit rich coming from someone who had a child by DE because she was too old to have her own genetic child, but I do think she is too old, not for herself, but for the child.  Old age is a lottery, and some people who are quite sprightly in their mid sixties can be a lot more limited, or decline mentally, by the time they reach 80, the age at which this woman will be responsible for a 14 year old child.  That is assuming that she lives that long.

There is no mention of the father, so if the mother ceases to be able to care for the child, somebody else will need to step in.  Although there are some wonderful nannies around, they are only responsible for the child while they are employed, and if they leave, the child has to start again with somebody else.  And no money makes up for losing a parent at a young age - think of Princes William and Harry.  I'm sure they would exchange their wealth and privilege to have their mum back if they could.  

To put it into perspective, we thought carefully about whether we were too old to have a child at 44 and 50.  At 44 I was easily the oldest mum in my groups, and that is only 2/3 of this woman's age. 

Now that the child is on its way, I wish it and its mother all the best, but I do think this case raises serious issues about parenting and what is in the child's best interest.

EG


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## roze (Mar 20, 2004)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/5341676/Britains-oldest-mother-deserves-congratulation-not-disapproval.html

The best assessment I have come across on this came from Boris Johnson in the Telegraph.

Its not something I would choose to do at 66 but I consider it none of my business. I do hate the Daily Mail for,as usual, finding an IVF story every few weeks to plaster across its pathetic paper. I do not consider it appropriate for any newspaper to hound a pregnant woman in this way, regardless of how unusual the story and hope that we do not encourage them. That is itself an issue and one likely to cause pain and suffering, and even something to go wrong. I think a complaint should be made to the Press Commission.

As someone who became a mum at the comparatively young age of 46, I have had to endure comments from people( usually thick as a plank though) some quite rude; one woman came up to me in IKEA when I was breastfeeding to tell me ' I hope you know what you are doing at your age its not fair on the child.' Others (complete strangers) just do verbal poking and prodding, ' oh, was this a surprise pregnancy then? Did you have to think about going ahead?'
'Aren't you embarrassed in public- everyones staring at you - a middle aged woman with a baby' from a (*****y) relative. Heaven knows what this woman has to put up with.

All in all, I think there is a lot of ageism in some of the views- people, and I hate to say that includes many women, just don't like the thought of older women doing much at all, let alone giving birth and attracting attention to themselves, and heaven forbid, breastfeeding, even though most of our kings and queens throughout the centuries have been nursed by ageing wet nurses. It all goes back to the lack of respect for older generations which is so prevalent in this country, unlike other parts of Europe, and particularly China where ageing and having experience and wisdom is seen as a wonderful thing.


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## Truffle80 (Nov 17, 2008)

I do agree that there is a certain "agesist" element in the UK at times although I'm not sure I would agree this centres on young women not wanting older women doing much and I don't think personaly it applies to the comments on this string as the less positive comments have been made in light of the childs welfare and not as an attack on the mother.

I was reminded of the story yesteday when visiting my Mum who is 62 and fairly active for her age to be honest (gym 3 times a week, lots of clubs etc).  She had been babysitting my sisters 1 year old for the afternoon and she was absolutely on her knees.  There are, sadly, some realities of age that cannot be ignored when one comments on a story such as this.  That doesn't make someone ageist - it makes them a realist and honest.

I wish her and child all the best and I hope she is able to stay fit, healthy and active for as long as possible.


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## Choice4 (Aug 14, 2008)

Goodluck to her
Nobody knows what the future would be
Anyone know the clinic in Ukraine that she used?


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## Teoroy (Oct 1, 2004)

Isida probably


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## Jane D (Apr 16, 2007)

Thanks for posting a link to the Telegraph.  A very interesting article by Boris and a huge apparently balanced response to it.  A lot more quality debate than the old Daily Mail toilet paper newspaper!

Jane


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## Junnie (May 17, 2008)

Lets face facts the average life expectancy for a woman in Britian is 82. That means that child will be roughly 16 years old. thats if the pregnancy doesnt take the toll on the lady.

Im not sure that is really fair... 

Facts are your muscle deteriates as you get older and babies get heavier!! lets hope she gets lots of help.


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## jaxwee (Jun 16, 2004)

This is something I have always felt very strongly about as my mum was 48 and dad 50 when I was born and this was without fertility treatment!!  

Growing up I felt embarrassed of my parents, not wanting them to make an appearance at the school etc., luckily I was not bullied but I can remember a boy not wanting "to go out with me"(!!) cos my mum and dad were old!!  

Unfortunately my dad died of cancer when I was 23 - he was my world and I feel cheated that he is no longer around.  I am now 34 and my mum is 82 - we have never been close as the generation gap is just too big.

Don't get me wrong - I love my parents very much and wouldn't have changed them for the world - there are a lot of people less fortunate than me.  

Another thing that I wonder about is was it because my mum was so old when she had me that my eggs are no good?  I have been trying for a baby since I was 27 but I have low ovarian reserve - I have 4 older sisters who have only had to be looked at to get pregnant!!  It may be totally unconnected but I do wonder.

The menopause is there for a reason and should be respected - I think it's incredibly selfish for a woman of 66 to be pregnant - she's going to be 82 for gods sake when the child is 16!!  It's just wrong!

Another point I have just thought of is that I do have four older sisters - the eldest is 23 years my senior - luckily they are supportive and we are fairly close - I believe that this woman in the news is having her first - who will her child have to turn to and get supoprt from??


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## Jane D (Apr 16, 2007)

Hello

Jaxwee thank you for sharing  your experience. I am sorry that you lost your dad at a young age.  

My parents were 40 when I was born (that was seen as positively geriatric in 1970) and I was conscious of that when I was younger, but luckily my parents have both seen me get this far, and still look and act younger than they are and are in relatively good health.

I note with great interest your comments about ovarian reserve.  At 35 just after having my dd, my body started failing.  My mum had no fertility issues nor any of her family but I do wonder cos she had me later if that is the reason for my POF.  Also, my gran had my dad at the age of 43 which probably didnt help.  Subsequently I found out that my dads sister's daughter finished her periods at 42 and I remember another cousin having hormonal issues in her mid 30's.  So possibly the problem could be a combination of maternal and paternal factors.  I am thinking of contacting the Daisy Network to see if they have done simple research into factors surrounding people with low ovarian reserve and POF ie age of parents, grandparents, birth order etc.  Probably not, but it would be interesting if a link could be proven.

Jane


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## babycrazy (Mar 17, 2006)

Hi Jax and jane
I did read somewhere years back that older mothers having children could cause their offspring Fertility problems.
I have 3 sisters 13, 9 & 2.5yrs older than me and a younger sister who was born when my mum was 38.5.  My older sisters have had no IF probs, but my younger one has had IF problems from a youngster, I am 2.5yrs older than her, I had no IF probs until my 30s when I started Miscarrying, after this i started having problems getting PG, but only minute compared to what a lot of you girls on FF have to bear.
I have found out before DD  from DEIVF that i had a Thyroid problem, now putting the jigsaw together, i may have had it years and as it can run in families, I believe my sisters problems are also thyroid with full blown PCOS. (these 2 immune issues are often seen together).    I have been diagnosed with PCOS, but  without the hormone probs, I do look constantly PG when slim (well 11st is slim for me) or fat like now and have hair where women should not grow hair, so can add the S.  We both have special needs children plus she has had 3 MC and I have had 5.
My sisters only 2 children a DD has Autism and hr DS has severe special educational needs,  I have DD with Cerebral palsy with autistic spectrum's and a DS with Dyspaxia, possibly another DS with same problem. Since being alerted to thyroid problems in PG by my  Fertility clinic in CZ Rep, i have done a lot of googleing and may have strongly found a connection with these Special needs children, MC and Maternal thyroid problems.
Jax  
34yrs ago women looked older then than now and lot of women back then who gave birth at that time of life, had not had an easy life, so the years showed on them more than today.
I am 52 and gave Birth at home in 2.5hrs with an 11yr age gap. Yes I had her for me, but if i had not of produced this little Miracle then my other children would  not have had me, My spirit had died inside, so I was just an empty shell existing only for there needs. I am so proud that i have her at my age, She has bought so much love and joy into our house and is equally loved and adored by all.
By the way, I have never been mistaken for her Granny, but some people do ask when I am out with my 25yr old DD if Baby is mine or hers.
My mum died age 87, she had my brother age 43 and was still running after the spoilt brat up until she died, she was diabetic making her blind in one eye, the other not far behind and on a walking stick.  My dad died  age 65 when i was age 27, he was an only child who never went without, he grew into a selfish man who lead a single mans life, Mum had had a harsh upbringing and my dad also gave her a very hard life.
If i can make it to 87  to see my BDD into a loving partnership i will consider myself very lucky.
As i have older children in partnerships who live away, I know they have their own lives to live and i cant see it being any different with Willow.  I will absolutely not relly on her or have her or any of my children care for us in old age, no way!!.
We probably only see my older ones a few times a year and I am happy with that, knowing they are happy doing their own thing.
Angel Blessings
Xx
Karen BC


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## Bree (Mar 21, 2007)

Gosh , just been reading some of the replies and realise how lucky I have been with my parents!! They were in their 40's when they had me. My Dad was a power-house of energy and never tired of taking me camping all over the place and teaching me lots of cool stuff about fishing and animals. He seemed to have more time for me than my friends Dads had for them. He is still unbelievably fit and healthy in his 90's. There is nothing wrong with him! He has loads of hobbies and friends and is so up to date with technology he puts me to shame!
My Mum was very glamerous when I was young and I felt proud of her. She is still going strong in her late 80's(her only health issue is slightly high blood pressure controlled by a tablet) . 
Hope this is a positive story for anyone who has just had a child in thier 40,s or 50's. One good thing about the brave lady of 66;she is making the rest of us DE girls look like spring chicks! I had Ben at 45 and feel positively youthful now hee hee  
Bree xx


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## Dids (Mar 25, 2009)

jaxwee said:


> The menopause is there for a reason and should be respected - I think it's incredibly selfish for a woman of 66 to be pregnant - she's going to be 82 for gods sake when the child is 16!! It's just wrong!


Totally agree Jaxwee. It's all 'I want' and 'my human right' in society today.  What about the rights of the child?

Also, I agree with Truffle's post



Jane D said:


> Hello
> I note with great interest your comments about ovarian reserve. At 35 just after having my dd, my body started failing. My mum had no fertility issues nor any of her family but I do wonder cos she had me later if that is the reason for my POF.


That's interesting. It isn't the reason for my POF as mum was in her 20s when she had me, however, she did have an early menopause.


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## roze (Mar 20, 2004)

I'm afraid I still find the tenor of many of the posts distasteful , as well as the phrasing of the title of this thread which is instantly judgemental, hence I won't be posting further on the subject, and in fact I am wondering whether I am indeed amongst friends in FF at all any more as what has been most revealing about this discussion is the moral self righteousness of many posters. When did this site start mummy bashing?
I wonder if anyone has considered that this woman may be a regular contributor and support seeker on FF?  It would not be surprising. Therefore what do you think she might be thinking right now? 

The fact is that this woman has not invited your comments on whether or not she is right or wrong to have this child. No doubt people have their views and concerns, but I do not think this website is the right place to express such negative views as it is intended to be one of support for people going through treatment. As far as I know , there are no age limits to membership 
on FF.

And where would you stop?  There are plenty of people who have moral objections to any form of assisted conception and many more who consider egg/sperm donation as abominable full stop. There are plenty who would not support gay men and lesbians having children on the basis of child welfare.  So, are they are all moral criminals now?  And I find the comments about someone being embarrassed about having older parents come to school events and the clearly jokey comments about her being able to breastfeed extremely inappropriate. 

With reference to comments about ' the menopause is there for a reason and should be respected.' Well, well done you for being so self righteous and so lucky not to have to consider tx after an early menopause, like many women seeking egg donation and many women on the abroadies/egg donation threads.  Do you consider someone who went through menopause at 32 as inappropriately seeking treatment, and condemning her as well? If not, what is your age limit?  Personally I started trying to start trying for a family at 36 but could not afford the necessary private treatments until much later at 42 when I inherited some money . After several failed attempts I had a baby at 46 when I was also entering the menopause, even thought whether I was menopausal or not had little bearing on my ability to conceive a dc child. 
I suppose I would fall into your category as selfish given the posted definition. Against the odds, the fact is that my body at 46 was more able to conceive and support a pregnancy than when younger and even when donor eggs were used. 

The fact is , there are genuine questions about whether being born to a 66 year old mother is good for a childs welfare but I see a lot of the ensuing discussion as giving a platform for bashing almost anyone over 40 trying to conceive. I remain disappointed.


roze


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Just to point out, that the title of the thread is the headline from the (very judgemental) newspaper rather than one dreamed up by an FF member - this is is in the 'What the papers say' section.

But I do think you're right on the other points Roze - the Poor Responder thread isn't the busiest thread on FF for no reason and lots of people will be offended by some of the comments people have put on here - particularly those that suggest that God is dealing out babies only to deserving cases.

'Menopause is there for a reason' is one such comment. Is cancer? Famine? Polycycstic ovaries? All there in God's master plan? If there was a master plan people like Karen Matthews and Fred West would have been infertile.

And does this suggest that because men don't have the menopause they are fine to carry on breeding? I'm thinking this is just an unthinking comment from someone yet to hit the menopause herself - I was told I was on the brink of menopause at 34.

Walk a mile in this woman's shoes, you lot!


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## pobby (Jun 2, 2005)

good posts Roze and Miranda!
I agree completely Roze that we have to consider whether this lady is a poster on FF..(though she has probably been scared off by now)  
I dont think I PERSONALLY would carry on tx that late in life but I wish her a lot of luck and happiness...My DPs dad was 59 when he had him and they enjoyed a fantastic relationship until he passed away last year age 90... I often think that older parents make fantastic parents as they are more patient and settled (in general terms)
Dids, Im curious as to why you agree with Jaxwees comments about the menopause when you yourself have suffered POF yourself and are having to go through IVF yourself   saying its "all I want" and "my human right" sounds a bit odd........i dont think there are many of us who think its our 'human right' to want a child....it is something we want and desire, its an instinct..do you think this woman has felt that pain any less than ourselves just because she is older? Her mind will be the same as when she was 30...............

pobby


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

I have to back up Roze, Miranda and Pobby. I have wanted to post here for days but every time I came I saw another post that, frankly, put me off. I feel a bit like _I_ was being judged at times. Not that I am 66 but my DH is 59 this year. Then again, the general feeling in soociety is it's alright for men. Not sure I'm seeing the difference myself.

I feel quite uncomfortable with the headline but then, what do you expect from the Daily Mail. Poor woman. Clearly she's not invited media attention and no wonder! I can only imagine what those who have never had the longing for a child might be saying! She should be left to get on and live her life the way she sees fit. The Telegraph article was much more balanced and, probably the first time I've ever seen anything Boris Johnson has said that hasn't made me either howl with laughter , roll my eyes or cringe with embrassasment. 



pobby said:


> My DPs dad was 59 when he had him and they enjoyed a fantastic relationship until he passed away last year age 90... I often think that older parents make fantastic parents as they are more patient and settled (in general terms)


I can vouch for that. My DH was 56 when our DS was born. He's an amazing dad, DS adores him and it's been a new lease of life for DH.

I think when you are in a limited time relationship your outlook is considerably different. For instance, I know, all things being equal, I will outlive my DH. I will probably become a widow some time in my 50s, if not sooner (family history being what it is  ). My DS will likely lose at least one parent before he is 30 (which is young) and maybe much younger. DH's sister (2 years older) has very recently passed away so the thought that we could have a lot less time than we imagined is quite prominent right now. 
In that situation it becomes a reality of your life and, I'm not saying it makes it easier, but it does mean the time you do have together is all that more precious because of it. It's better to focus on that time you will have, rather than dwell on the time you won't.

I can't imagine this lady hasn't given the whole thing considerable thought and entered into this with her eyes open. I don't think a child that is wanted and will be loved is one you need to feel sorry for or find anything unfair about. 
Having said that I think she's brave for doing it without a partner at her age, but anyone who has a baby as a lone parent is fairly brave in my book. It's not easy. Maybe being older might, in this case, be a bit of a blessing since I can tell you that my DH certainly has a lot more patience than I do when DS is being difficult.

I wouldn't, personally, chose to become a mother at 66 but good luck and congratulations to her.

C~x


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## Candee (Feb 1, 2009)

No-one has mentioned the legions of grandmothers that have brought children up over the years, when their daughters
died early - often in child birth. Another sad fact of life is that in Africa, where the younger generations are being
wiped out be AIDS, there are millions of children being raised by Grandmas.

Some of the comments on here have surprised me and made me feel uncomfortable. I guess I am one of those selfish
people, determined to have a baby and thinking only about 'me' 'me' 'me'. Only I thought FF was one of the few places
where people understand the overwhelming need to be a mother... If I can have a child, I will and if it is selfish to go
it alone and if I have left it too late for my own eggs, well I will deal with the backlash for me and the baby but I kind
of thought FF was a place where you didn't have to be defending yourself. Not everyone gets their ducks in a row at
the right time and if you did, well done you and if you didn't well, you have my support because that is why I come on 
FF - to get support and give it in return.
Candee 
x


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## Be Lucky (Mar 22, 2008)

I agree with a lot of the comments 2day.i hav felt hurt by sum things posted on here.but didntwant 2 make my bp high by postin earlier. i am 44 in august and dh 48 and nearly 18 weeks pregnant with surprise natural bfp after tryin for many years.before that i had bad anxiety illness and believe it is fate or god or whatever that allowed me 2 hav this child after so much heartache.my mum had me at 38 and dad 43 and i hav a sister 3 yrs younger and 1 13 yrs older than me and mum and dad hav grown up grandchildren and 2 greatgrand daughters who r older than my nephew!we r not ageist.well i am not.i always remem my dad as very active.we went different parks etc every wkend.my parents r now 82 and 87 whilst they hav sum health probs.they r happy and live in own home.my friends and colleagues been very supportive-noone has said anything negative 2 my face.i wld hav sum answers if they did!i am still proud 2 b over 40 and pregnant!berniex


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## Bree (Mar 21, 2007)

Yes, lets all be loads more positive   . I wish lots of good things for ALL us over 40's Mums and our beloved offspring.

  Maybe the lady in question will find a lovely DP of a younger age who will be devoted to the child. Maybe she already has?? No mention if where the swimmer sample is from?? Maybe there already is a younger Daddy lurking well out of target of the press Anyway that is non of my business, I just went off at a tangent a bit there. If she is on her own I am sure she will do a great job raising the l/o and hopefully surround herself and the child with a  good and long lasting support network of relatives and friends.
Bree xx


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## poots (Jan 28, 2009)

roze said:


> I'm afraid I still find the tenor of many of the posts distasteful , as well as the phrasing of the title of this thread which is instantly judgemental, hence I won't be posting further on the subject


Roze, I am sorry if the title of my thread has offended you - it is the title of the article in the paper, and not my choice of wording, and the terrible wording was really what prompted me to post it in the first place. Please accept my apologies for hurting you.

I am very upset by this thread now as it was not my intention for people to get hurt or upset by my post, just to highlight a situation which I felt the paper handled very insensitively, regardless of the varied opinions regarding the age of the mother.

My FIL died today aged 77 and that is upset enough for any one, and I can't bear the thought that I might have inadvertently provided a way for other people to be upset. That was never my intention, and I am sorry. Maybe as Caz says, knowing you have limited time makes you appreciate each other more, and hopefully that is the case, but I can tell you that at 38 and 37 DH and I are distraught at losing someone so special to us.

poots


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## pobby (Jun 2, 2005)

Poots
am so sorry to hear of your loss    you both must be feeling awful. please put this thread to the back of your mind hun and dont be upset. as you said, all you did was bring the article to the attention of others and the title of the post was only what the paper had written so you have nothing at all to reproach yourself for..you have done nothing wrong.
take care 
love pobby xx.


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## jaxwee (Jun 16, 2004)

Poots, am very sorry about your loss, my DH and I lost his father suddenly a few years back so I totally understand.  

An article and posting of this nature is always going to stir up strong opinions and everybody is entitled to theirs.  I feel I am entitled to mine as I am somebody who was born to older parents and also somebody that has all but given up hope of having my own biological child.  Admittedly when I was born (1975) it was less common - well you didn't have IVF then for a start!  The nurses at the time were quite rude to my mum and when my sister met her husband, he thought I was hers!  My mum has always been fit and on the go and still manages holidays abroad by herself, but age has caught up with her now at 82, she has muscular skeletal problems and is not as sharp as she used to be.

When I made my earlier comment about the menopause being respected, of course I wasn't referring to early menopause at say 32 - I was speaking in general about normal menopause age.  Again for what it's worth, I haven't gone through menopause but considering my eggs are as useful as a chocolate  teapot, I may as well have done.  I have even questioned whether I should be having fertility treatment as if it was meant to be - would it have not have happened au natural -it is true, it is not somebodys 'right' to have a child, they are indeed a blessing.  I used to let infertility rule my life but I took a step back and now I do not let it control me - I certainly know that there will come a time when I draw a line under it and move on and it certainly will be long before I am 66!

I do not wish to upset anybody on here but feel that the rights of the child are often ignored - also by going abroad for the treatment, our laws (age limits) are ignored too.  I wish the lady in question and her baby well but I do not have to like it.

Jax


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## pobby (Jun 2, 2005)

jaxwee
you are quite right, this type of discussion will always stir up a lot of feeling and for the most part its god to have healthy discussion even when we disagree with each other. so many of us on here have eggs that are duffers and thats why we have to go down the road of egg donation. i dont think any of us go into that lightly but, speaking for myself, now that i have made that decision I am totally at peace with it and am so grateful to the women who have given me that chance and hopefully will continue to give me that chance as I am still not prepared to give up..I am curious as to why you feel that it is wrong to go abroad for treatment? what laws are you referring to? I think for a lot of people (including lady in question) thats exactly why we do go abroad as the laws here can be so limiting and I truly feel the HFEA dont always have our best interests at heart. The doctors I have met so far abroad have been wonderful, dedicated and compassionate and their upmost goal is to get you a baby in your arms..I can certainley understand why she went abroad and why many others do..Im not saying that Doctors in this country dont treat you well, i am just recounting my personal experience as I feel quite let down by the fertility clinics that I have attended in the UK (3 seperate ones) i will continue to be treated abroad where you are a person not a hospital number and a credit card!

pobby x


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## BABY2 (Nov 28, 2007)

I say good luck to this woman, I know I would never do it but that does not make it right or wrong, just my choice.

I am classed as an "older" mum by the medical field as when I was pregnant they continuously went on about it and how I should have various tests; and things that could go wrong.
I too have had treatments abroad as I could not get treatment in this country due to my weight and BMI, despite being healthy and having NO health problems-except for pcos...I had no problems with going abroad for treatment and was VERY happy to ignore our "laws" in this country,they are not necessarily right 

Life is short and we never know what's around the corner so we have to appreciate and cherish every moment we have with our loved ones, no matter how old we or they are. my aunt is 82 and as fit as a fiddle and drives and lives by herself and goes to Thailand to visit her son twice a year which is an incredible long journey , and to be honest I _could_ imagine her with a 16 year old 



jaxwee said:


> I believe that this woman in the news is having her first - who will her child have to turn to and get supoprt from??


I am an only child, so the question is not relevant as there are lots of us around; who are well balanced and well supported  also my mother had me when she was 22-23, relatively young, but we never saw eye to eye and still I felt there was a huge generation gap between us, I think most teenagers go through that no matter how old their parents are. My daughter is 14 and she thinks I am ancient, even though she borrows my music Cd's,jewellery etc 

poots sorry for your loss 

and good luck to everyone and I pray you all get your baby wishes soon  no matter how old or what religion/colour/sexuality etc


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## Dids (Mar 25, 2009)

Poots - I'm very sorry to hear of your news    I have an idea as to how you feel as I lost my mum a few years ago  

Jaxwee - Again, I agree with your comments and like you did not wish to upset anyone


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## Miranda7 (Feb 12, 2007)

Have you tried DHEA Jax? That helped my egg quality 100%. Also, have you had an AMH test?

I would back up those saying clinics abroad are more flexible - and that the HFEA don't seem to have infertile people in mind when they invent their laws!

And I don't mean putting 16 embryos into an eighty-year-old, but just in their approach to drugs protocols, monitoring, etc - they'll actually treat you as an individual. I got SUCH good care from my clinic in Turkey.


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## loobylou713 (May 8, 2005)

I go to Czech and I have never been treated so well in my 20 years of fertility treatment. Not only that they were the first to get me a BFP. Clinic in the uk would not change my protocol to a short one as a poor responder said they only do long there. ummm never knew we were all the same.


linda
xxx


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## Truffle80 (Nov 17, 2008)

Gosh ladies I have only just popped on again and have been quite  !

Poots - I am so sorry for your loss .  I lost my step father a few years ago and my heart goes out to you.  Please don't feel bad about the thread its good for such discussions to take place and we should all be grateful we live in a democratic society - thats another thread though 

I do feel poor Jaxwee's comment about menopause being there for a reason has been used unfairly out of context and we all know early menopause is a terrible thing for many women and thats why hundreds of women who can produce good eggs choose to egg share etc even though that can be such a terribly hard thing to do.

I sincerley hope my comments have not offended anyone but everyone is entitled to an opinion and that should be respected.

I agree Pobby that the **** do not always have our best interests at heart and completely understand why people choose to go for tx abroad.  I have been very lucky with a fab UK clinic but I am aware of some of the horror stories out there.  I do understand Jaxwee's comments though which relate to protecting the welfare of both the mother and any child born via tx such as how many embryos can be replaced and, light of this discussion, age limits.  Unfortunately there are clinics out there that will do "anything" if you are willing to pay and theres absolutely no regulation.  Sadly I have a friend with early menopuase who had such an experience and it can have devestating consequences.  She has since gone on to have tx elsewhere abroad and has had fantastic tx and a positive result!

Txx


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## Candee (Feb 1, 2009)

I certainly agree with you Truffle80 that people should be respected, its just that some of the views expressed on this thread have shown a real lack of kindness and understanding, which doesn't seem to me to be within the spirit of FF.
Candee


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