# Over 40 - anyone else about to start an IVF cycle?



## Tootles

Hello

Just in case anyone is over 40 and about to start an IVF cycle and fancies a chat!

I've just turned 42 and am about to start my second cycle. Had a miscarriage from my first round of IVF. That was in August just gone - I'm not hanging around!  

I'm at Nurture in Nottingham. 

This time round I'll be sprinkling more than just 'baby dust' - I'd like a truck load of 'baby rocks' please!! 

Tootles xx


----------



## BillieMoon76

Hi Tooties! I'm 41 and about to have 1st round of IVF at Zita West, London (short protocol).

I'm currently on day 2 of the pill (Microgynon), finish that on Sunday 29th and then stims on following bleed (likely 1st week of Nov).

I'm brand new to FF - joined today! x


----------



## babydust4me21

Hi ladies I've not long turned 40 and am currently undergoing my 1st cycle of ivf. I've been on my down regulation nasal spray since 21st September and due to start injections this Friday. It's a bit daunting but very much exciting. I wish you both luck and hopefully keep up to date with your progress along the road on this journey we are all embarking on. Much love and fairy dust xx


----------



## Tootles

Hi BillieMoon76 and babydust4me21,

How are you finding Zita West?  Certainly has a fab reputation. I was an audience member on a webinar a couple of weeks ago and Zita was really interesting. I like the idea of changing diets and ways of thinking to complement the meds. 

Looking forwards to getting started on the meds again. I feel like it should be a bit easier second time round but I've completely forgotten everything! 

I've got a weekend away with the inlaws to both look forwards to and dread! I find all of the questions a bit much, plus sister in law has a new baby.  Since I turned 40 I think I've become far less tolerant!


----------



## miamiamo

I didn't want to read and run. I wish everybody all the luck in the world on your journey


----------



## Nicnik

Hi ladies,

I'm 42 and about to embark on my 6th round of IVF (yip...I must be mad...but can't give up!).  I will be cycling with Serum in Athens and think this will be our last try with own eggs.  My period is due at the beginning of November and I will start the stims then.  

Wishing each and every one of you lots of luck.   xx


----------



## CEce40

Hi everyone, 

We've got an appointment with the doc tomorrow to debrief after our failed 3rd cycle. We've decided to give it one more go with OE but change the protocol. Should hopefully start late Nov/early Dec. Fingers crossed for everyone. I think it certainly increases the pressure being over 40 and playing chicken with the biological clock.


----------



## Tootles

Hi Ladies

Nicnik - good luck with round 6. I love your attitude of not giving up. Got to have hope because it can happen. I'm 42 too and I think that a positive approach to IVF makes the whole thing more bearable. 

CEce40 - how did your debrief go? I felt really motivated after mine. In what ways are you tweaking your protocol? Mine is being boosted with a higher dose of Gonal F and an extended period of stims.

We re-did our consents yesterday. The drugs arrive today and I start them on Monday. Strange feeling about doing this again in that I feel much less giddy and far more matter of a fact about it all.  

Round two - bring it on!


----------



## Molly78

I m nearly 40 and about to start my 5th attempt, this will be my last with own eggs, I m very lucky to have a son from my first attempt but have had 4 failures since then. It’s hard to keep going but also addictive too as you never want to lose hope that the next one will work.i m hoping to start Stims within next few days, I have had immune testing which revealed a few issues so I’m trying clexane this time plus extra folic acid and vitamin b12 but I think the main problem is egg quality. Trying to remain positive... xx


----------



## CEce40

Hi Tootles, 

Our debrief went well, we had far more questions this time. The previous 3 cycles were long protocol and I've been having back to back treatments. The down reg is getting to me a bit - hot sweats happening even after I've stopped taking it - so I'm switching to short protocol this time. I've also been having 3 day transfers and they've been good quality, so this time we'll take them to day 5 to see if they go downhill after day 3. We're also introducing a mild steroid after transfer in case there are any immunity problems. The final thing we've not decided yet is whether we are going to go for IVF or ICSI. The previous attempts have been ICSI, but the sperm was good quality for the last 2 attempts, so didn't really need it. We'd probably have less fertilised with IVF, but there will be the element of natural selection, so could get better embryos (potentially, who knows, its all guess work really isnt it!?). 

Started the pill today so should have time to squeeze everything in before Christmas. Annoyingly the 2ww will prob mean a dry christmas and new year - first time since I was a teenager!!


----------



## Molly78

Hi Cece I always suffer with bad night sweats during and post down reg it’s vile. Our DS was a result of ivf unfortunately my DHs sperms gone downhill since then so we’ve had to have icsi and never been successful. Our clinic believe ivf is preferable especially in more mature ladies as older eggs don’t like being tapered with ... good luck xx


----------



## andrea75

Hi ladies....I'm 42 & still deciding on a clinic.  This will be my 7th cycle but my 3rd with DF.  I really want to try with my OE but our old clinic suggested DE.  This was 2yrs ago & we still haven't agreed what to do next and where to go


----------



## Nicnik

Hi bumblebee,

We are same age and both done similar amount of cycles.  

Many ladies our age go to Serum as a last resort for OE (and also for DE). I'll be starting my cycle with them in the next few days. So far, their service and care has been fantastic. 

Wishing you the best of luck. xx


----------



## andrea75

Hi Nicnik   don't honestly know if we can afford it in Greece?  I have only heard exceptional things about it there though xx


----------



## Nicnik

Hi Bumblebee,

I know what you mean about cost - although Serum seem to be one of the least expensive I've come across. 3000 Euros for one cycle or 4000 Euros for two cycles. Is your preference to cycle in the U.K.? xx


----------



## andrea75

Yah think we would prefer it that way however we need to travel wherever we go.  Might be easier abroad seeing as we stay at the very north of Scotland


----------



## Nicnik

Ah, we are in Scotland too.  Means two flights though for the clinics we've cycled abroad with so far.   xx


----------



## Efi78

Hi girls,

I hope you don't mind me jumping in. I am 39 turning 40 in March. As you can see from my profile I had my fair share of pain. Defeated but not beaten yet though. 

Bubblebee/Nicnic,
I am Greek living in London for the last 17 years. I have grown up in Athens. I have heard a lot about Serum in these forums. I am curious to listen to your opinions and what makes them good. As you can imagine my family being there we did look for clinics in Athens but didn't like their stamdards. Also this clinic is unknown to the Greeks and we are more familiar with Dr Paraschos, Dr Pantos and many other clinics/doctors etc. I also hear very often about high success rates, however there is no greek HFEA to verify that. The only thing I am aware of is that they tend to transfer too many embryos the Greeks because quite frankly there is none to control them. 

I would like to hear a bit more about Serum because I am wondering whether I should go back to mycountry for IVF? I am with the Lister right now, no baby yet but they do a good job on their side. I can't fault them and from what I can see the cost is the same here and in greece.

Any feedback on Serum would be highly appreciated. I am very curious as Nicnic mentioned it is the last chance saloon for own eggs for some ladies.


----------



## Tootles

Hi ladies

Hope everyone is doing well.

Really interested to hear more about Serum too.  This round of IVF is due to cost us £7k.  Not sure how many more times we'll try.  I'd like to think four goes will be enough for us, but I can only imagine how hard it must be to stop trying.

Has anyone heard of IVF in a shoebox?  Mate of mine told me about it. Early days but hopefully good news for IVF in future.

I start down reg at 8pm today.  Happy to just be getting on with it.

CEce40 - yep a dry Christmas for me too! I'm off the caffeine as well.  I've decided to treat myself to some luxury pyjamas seeing as how I plan on spending most of my nights in them!


----------



## CEce40

pyjamas - good plan.

Are you giving up alcohol and coffee for the whole treatment? I don't drink a lot of either, but up to this point I've only given up alcohol after the transfer. Maybe I should be stricter this time and join you in the boring life with the PJs!


----------



## Tootles

Do it CEce40!  We can be boring together!!  

I really missed tea and coffee at first.  I couldn't get on with fruit teas (yuk!) and my mother in law gave me a lecture about unknown chemicals in decaf, so I kept trying to drink hot water on its own - not nice.  Then one day my other half created the best substitute and I've been drinking it ever since. It sounds disgusting but it works because I just imagine it being a cuppa, but a bad one.  I call it the none-tea tea.  It's just hot water and milk. Disgusting I hear you cry!! But give it a go! It's not bad at all. If I'm feeling really crazy I blob in some honey! Boy oh boy, its one long party on IVF!!??!


----------



## CEce40

Oh no, no. No, this is too much. When I started IVf I vowed not to take things too far and head to crazytown. Milky water is just a slippery slope to Wierdo Avenue in my book!

(I'm sure it's absolutely delicious....... maybe a recipe book next year?!)


----------



## LuluLimon

Hi ladies
Can I join? I'm nearly 41 and we are aiming at our 2nd fresh IVF/isci in January.

We are lucky to have a son from our first then I had 3 early MC's from our frozens.
We're having immunes tested with Dr gorgy but probably doing treatment at Zita West also.
We've also had a partial torsion- so after a huge panic about having no sperm, things look to be coming back hence a slight delay until after Xmas- really hoping there will be enough.
In the meantime we continue to pop our pills and be fairly "good" 😊
Good luck to those starting drugs soon.


----------



## Tootles

Hi LuluLimon
Welcome! The more the merrier on here. Hope all goes well in your run up to your next try. 

Hi CEce40 - yep I'm that person that floored it into fifth gear down to Weirdo Avenue!  I've done roast avocado, pineapple surprise (particularly bad) and a very 'memorable' egg lasagne.  All awful!! It's ridiculous really, because while I'm off the caffeine and the booze, I'm troughing chocolates and Haribos like they're going out of fashion!


----------



## CEce40

Wow, a cacophony of kitchen calamities. I ate out of date chicken for lunch as it was the only thing in my fridge. Are we even ready to be parents??😜


----------



## Efi78

Haha girls you are very funny. I hope you don't mind me jumping in. Turning 40 in March and still trying for 1st baby. We have been trying since 2012.

CEce40 are we ready to be parents? lol. You know what? For all the pain i have been through I have to admit that this is the only time in my life that I am 100% ready. I keep thinking that If we had fallen pregnant when we first started I would now have a 6 year old child? I feel too young for that. I honestly don't feel my age at all. But for the first time I feel 100% fulfilled and ready to have a baby. They say that 40 is old but I feel so happy and fulfilled financially and mentally. Also, quite frankly the fact that that my husband and I are still child free means that we haven't aged at all yet. Still youthful looks!

Anyway I just wanted to give the positives of having a child later in life. I don't know If we will manage to succeed but at least we can give a lot to a child.


----------



## CEce40

Hi efi78, yes I totally agree (despite my flippant scarcasm). 

I spent most of my life not wanting children. I was never particularly maternal and always felt too young. I was stepmom to my previous husband's kids, which was hard and definitely enough for me at the time.

When I met my current (he's still on his trial period!!) husband 5 years ago, that was the first time I started to think about kids. Looking back i find it really interesting to think which came first - did I want kids because I'd finally found "the one" or did nature take over and make me attracted to someone who would be a good father to my children (I remember being really attracted to his morals - not at all an attribute I was looking for in my 20s!!). 

I always thought making the decision to have children would be the hardest bit. When we decided to start trying (after completely shifting the mindset I'd had for my whole life), I walked around for the first 3 months like I was on the hill in the sound of music - at one with nature, arms aloft "soon I shall be impregnated and I shall sing with the birds and make apple pies!". But unfortunately we all know it doesn't work like that and that, quite frankly, our teachers blatantly lied to us to scare us into never having unprotected sex! 

Anyway, even though, like you, I finally feel emotionally, financially, mentally really to have children, I know that if I was lucky enough for this to work, once I'd got over the shock, there'd still be a definite element of being totally scared sh*tless 😬


----------



## Tootles

Wow, I love reading this. I can absolutely relate to the feeling of finally being ready to be a parent. 

I put my career first and also went through a period of thinking that there was always going to be a 'better' bloke around the corner.  When I reached 40 I finally accepted that the glass ceiling at work that I'd always been adamant didn't exist, was actually very very real. In fact, it is more like an iron ceiling, and every time I bashed at it, the ceiling would get lower.  This made me stop and look at my life and my lovely partner, and realise that there is so much more to life than just work.

I thought it'd be sooo easy to get pregnant. I wouldn't go so far as to say I regret leaving it late, but I would like to tell my younger self that careers shouldn't mean sacrificing having children.  

If I am lucky enough to have a child I will definately make every attempt to empower he or she to think beyond the walls of a career that general society suggests makes you successful.  I will also make every attempt to not poison a child with my dreadful cooking, or fall asleep at 8pm with a baby on my lap, or forget the child when out shopping!! I too am bricking it with regards to not cocking parenthood up given the chance!


----------



## miamiamo

@Nicnik, Molly78 - I wish you all the best with the outcome of your cycle


----------



## CEce40

Hi everyone, 

Love reading the backstories. Anyone else want to contribute?

Where is everyone in their cycles? I'm on the pill (short cycle), have a scan on 21st Nov then hopefully start stims. I've been pretty consistent with previous cycles and usually 15 days from starting stims to egg collection, so thinking that will be 5th Dec. 

Looking back at some of the previous posts on this chat I think some people will be in the 2ww by now - fingers crossed if you are.


----------



## emma10

Hi ladies...
Can I join your chat please?
I'm currently in the 2ww of our last ever (FET) cycle...
My brief history....
I came off the pill when I was 30 (I was 40 last month)
Nothing happened so after all the usual tests we started our first round of IVF in 2010. After 2 pregnancies / 2 miscarriages and one failed cycle our miracle DS was born in 2014  - on what was meant to be our last cycle...
Trouble is we had frozen embryos (which we'd never had before)
In my mind I thought perfect a sibling in a couple of years but then was devastated when it failed.... so managed to persuade my DH to do a fresh cycle the same year which unfortunately also failed...but again we had 2 frozen embryos.... 
Which basically takes me to now.... 40 and doing cycle number 7!
I'm currently switching between feeling negative as the chances are slim after 2 failures as I've got older... to thinking it doesn't matter as I already have my DS.... but I know I'll still be gutted if it doesn't work.... you can't help feeling that way in the 2ww can you....?
My OTD is 16th Nov x x


----------



## Efi78

Hi everyone
I am currently waiting for next period to start so that I can transfer my last frozen blasto. I had another FET in October which ended up in BFN. So last embryo and if we fail then probably new cycle in January-February

I have been through a lot and currently in deep pain since last failure


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Not cycling at the moment but did want to say I too totally get that thing about the iron ceiling Tootles....it does make you rethink things  

For those asking about serum, I really only have the best to say about them from my personal experience.  As a moderator, I have read mostly good feedback but there is also some negative and those for whom they are not the right clinic. I’ve watched as some couples move on to other clinics and have their successes there.  Penny is terribly motivated to get to your take home baby and will often do tests and take measures that othe clinics would consider over the top.  At the end of the day, I would always say, do your research. Ask questions of those cycling. Try to compare with other clinics.  As to too many embryos, they do have strict laws in Greece about how many can be put back (the law is posted in a sticky thread at the top of the Greek board if you want to read it).

Good luck ladies....

Grey xx


----------



## Efi78

Grey

Thank for the feedback. I might do some research at Serum.

As for the law...this is Greece!laws don't apply!


----------



## Molly78

Bad luck Efi, hopefully you’ll have better luck in the new year. Picking yourself up after failures is hard. Sounds like we’re in a similar situation Emma, I had DS in 2015 aged 37 and have had 2 failed fresh and 2 failed fets since, this really is our last cycle with my own eggs. I m 40 in a few weeks. Would consider DE if this fails but my DH isn’t keen. I m having EC on Friday. More relaxed about lifestyle this time around, had a couple of glasses of wine and a few Costas! Last time I was good as gold and it still didn’t work. Thanks for the best wishes Miamiamo.


----------



## CEce40

Emma and Molly, fingers crossed

Efi, sounds rough. Hope you find a way to deal with your pain soon

This may be our last cycle with OE. I was pretty relaxed with the others, went to the gym a lot, tried to eat healthier (tried!), but not supplements and still did the binge drinking - you know, when you go out for "just a couple" and end up falling into a wheelie bin! - no? just me?? This time I've been inspired by some people on here and going to throw some extras at it. What the hell, it can't hurt, right?

I've been seduced by Zita West and got her IVF nutrition pack. Ten tons of supplements that I probably could have grabbed for a third of the price in Boots, but hey, it's got great packaging! I've also cut out the booze (boring) and having weekly acupuncture (not massively well researched, just the local lady on the high street sticking pins in me). All should have been started 3 months ago, apparently. Typical me, trying to cram everything into a couple of weeks and think it will have the same impact (flash back to exams, running a marathon, planning a wedding, basically my whole bloody life!) 

So is my body now a temple? am i prepared mentally and physically for the stresses and strains of IVF? Am I serine, calm and at one with my ovaries? Well, no. I'm at home with the flu, shivering under a blanket. Perfect!


----------



## Molly78

Sounds like we’re in reverse Cece, I used to be good, well quite and now I m being naughty. Good for you, I m sure the healthier you are the better and when it’s your last go with OE you want to ensure you give it your best shot. Had collection today so feeling sleepy 😴


----------



## CEce40

How did the collection go, Molly? Did you get as many as you expected?


----------



## Tootles

Hi Ladies

Hope the egg collection went well Mollie. Are you feeling ok? I remember being a bit sore the next day.

Efi78 - how is the reasearch going? Hope you're getting lots of answers.

CEce40 - your post did make me laugh! I like your approach. Let me know if you want the egg lasagne recipe! Hope the flu does one sharpish and that hubby of yours is spoiling you rotten. 

I'm just over a week into down reg, and have a scan on Wednesday. Doing some date maths, and likely to find out if I'm preggers on the 14th Decemeber if everything in the run up goes to plan. It's either going to be a flipping exciting Christmas, or an absolute shocker!  That good old IVF timing!

Talking of supplements, I'm taking DHEA this time round which I know can be a bit controversial. My IVF clinic advised that it could help, and who am I to question these genius people.  

Anyhow, it has side effects that I'm not too chuffed about. I literally look like I'm in training to be a brunette Father Christmas. I have more of a beard than my baby-faced other half and I am fast wearing out my tweezers.  And this morning the acne kicked in...oh joy!?! I've not had spots like this since I was 16.  

This is not the 2017 autumn / winter look I was going for.  Can't wait for the Christmas party season to kick in NOT!


----------



## Molly78

At least an oily spotty face might keep the wrinkles at bay Tootles - you have to look for the positives in these situations. December isn’t the greatest time to be cycling with all the parties but it could be the best Christmas present ever! 

Egg colllection went ok thanks, got 8 eggs which I was delighted about, however, only 4 have fertilised so feeling a bit disappointed today it’s such a roller coaster. The clinic will ring with on Monday with an update as to whether I ll have a 3 day transfer, currently booked in for a 5 day one so praying they are good enough for blastocyst culture 🙏 

X


----------



## emma10

Molly - think quality not quantity... you only need one good embryo... fingers crossed for you....

I have also been naughtier with this cycle..  actually on advice of the doctor believe it or not!  When we went it for the kick off appointment to say we're ready to go again, I said about cutting out caffeine and alcohol in preparation... doc said that they'd  done research and nothing showed that giving these up months in advance made a difference and to do whatever relaxes you as this is more important  
So have also had a few Costa's and only gave up alcohol and went to decaf just before the transfer....
Last time I did everything "properly" and it didn't work so tried to be a bit more relaxed this time...
x x


----------



## Molly78

Thanks Emma - I like the sound of your doctor👍


----------



## CEce40

Tootles - I have no idea what DHEA is, but I need to get in on the teenage chic action. The perfect time of year to regress, in just a few weeks you could be doing an awkward side-to-side, hands on shoulders/hands on hips, couples sway to Wham at a school disco. Although I could do without the random hair growth. Gravity has definitely taken hold in my old age, not only have my boobs gone south but my eyebrows have started growing out of my nostrils. What the hell is that all about?

Molly - I get your disappointment. We've been doing icsi but switching to IVF this time so our Doc told us to prepare for a reduced fertilisation rate. We generally get 7 eggs and 5 fertilise, so I'm quite worried about dropping down. I know it's all about quality etc, but until the test you can't help but focus on the numbers game. 

Emma - yeah, looks like we are doing it in reverse! The first couple of cycles I was focused on my weight and trying to get my BMI down. It's been quite a stressful year and work is getting on top of me a bit (feel like I've been trapped for 3 years since TTC and I'm getting really frustrated. Need to leave if this round doesn't work, I think), so this time I feel that I need to de-stress and relax a bit. I've gone for the supplements as a way to not worry about food, getting to the gym etc, I'm going to just try to chill and see what happens. I've cut out booze more because the hangovers are a mare! I'm taking a few weeks to hibernate and it feels really good - I'm actually watching X factor and really enjoying it! I feel so middle aged!

Doing my date maths, I should find out on 20th Dec. Enough time to hit a few parties and drink myself into stupidity if all goes wrong. I'll be the weird drunk uncle giving it the big guns on the dance floor then crying in the corner and telling random strangers I love them!


----------



## emma10

Tooties - re the oily/teenage skin etc, I have suffered pretty much all through my 30s (prob not helped by all the IVF cycles!) But I finally feel like my skin has calmed down since hitting 40. But I'm treating this as a negative at the mo as I'm sure when I was pregnant with my DS my skin flared up... 

My OTD is Thursday but even tho I'm not feeling particularly positive (mainly self preservation I think) I'm just dreading that being confirmed as this really is the last go for us.... on one hand I can't wait to find out but on the other hand there is still a chance (albeit slim) until then.... I'm driving myself mad... 
x x


----------



## magicpillow

Hi all.  I thought I'd pop along as I'm 41 and about to do our last IVF cycle.  This will be our 4th fresh and I've been agonising over whether to do it now or wait until the end of Jan as I worried I'm not healthy enough to go now (we got married recently so have been indulging in coffee, chocolate and general bad foods alongside my usual healthy meals). I decided I'm fed up with waiting and life being constantly on hold though so am just going to go for it.  Just hoping I'll be ok despite not having lost the weight I wanted to or having been totally virtuous with my diet.  Coffee and alcohol have been given up and I'm going to be as good as possible.  If all goes according to plan I'd find out around 28th December. 

We are using donor sperm and I always find that I get a reasonable number of eggs for my age (around 8 - 12) and usually up with 1 or 2 blastocysts but always a BFN.  Wondering if it's now just about egg quality.  My first IVF cycle was a BFP but I miscarried. 

It's so scary to think this is the last go.  If it doesn't work I feel like I may have one more in me (or maybe a donor egg cycle) but hubby is adamant this is the last go.  Definitely scared!


----------



## Molly78

Seems like this is the last shot for many of us. Like you, Magic Pillow, I would probably have a DE cycle In me but my husband has had enough and we have already done 2 more cycles than we originally planned, he isn’t keen on the donor option either at the moment. 

Xx


----------



## emma10

Our 4th cycle was meant to be our last too... which was the one that gave us our DS.
The FET after was only as we had frozen embryos (which we'd never had before)...and we hoped to have a sibling... I think I thought as it was the same good batch that gave us our Son then it would work... but was devastated when it didn't.. .
The last fresh cycle and this FET was never in the plan and I had to persuade my DH too...
I think this is why I'm finding this time harder as I know it is the end now.. x x


----------



## Molly78

It’s hard isn’t it Emma, I also had a fet after my DS and was quite upbeat but it didn’t work. I did read somewhere that you’re more likely to have success again with a full fresh cycle so perhaps this FET is your time, it’s such a lottery, good luck the 2 WW is a killer but you don’t have long to wait now.... x


----------



## emma10

Fingers crossed for us both Molly...
I know I'm luckier than most as already have my DS...
This whole process makes me even more grateful for him as he just seems even more precious right now x x


----------



## Molly78

I had two blastocysts transferred today 🙏 good luck for tomorrow Emma hope you get your BFP xx


----------



## emma10

Congratulations Molly on being PUPO!
Thank you.... am feeling quite scared about getting the result tbh! x x


----------



## Molly78

Thanks Emma, you’ve done well to hold out until your OTD.

Btw Tootles I used dhea on my last cycle but it didn’t help me, I have a short luteal phase, I ovulate very late and the dhea made this worse. My clinic recommend it though for older ladies where quality or reserve is an issue, it just didn’t agree with me x


----------



## LuluLimon

Hello ladies. Dropping by to say yay to those of you PUPO!

We have our consultation at Zita West next week so I haven't been on here too much until we know we're good to go.

I had a bunch of level 2 tests with high results for tnf's, and 3 kir receptors missing. I don't know about anyone else,  but I sort of feel like my body can't be all that out of whack, like really 

I'm not on DHEA...yet! But gulping down all the other goodies 😱 I also got spotty on ALA though...I think body is saying I need sun )


----------



## emma10

Hey Ladies 
Just letting you know that unfortunately our result was a BFN and so the end of the road for us as was our last ever cycle.
Gutted as was longing for a sibling but also feeling very grateful for our DS as out of 7 cycles he really is our little miracle.
Wishing you all loads of luck and hoping that you too get your miracle babies..
x x x


----------



## Tootles

Oh Emma10 I'm so sorry to read your post.  Sending a massive hug, and a big fat two fingers up to fertility problems.  XxxxxxxxxxxxX


----------



## CEce40

So sorry, Emma10. It must be so hard, but i think knowing when to stop can be such a brave and positive thing. I'm sure your precious little son will keep you smiling through the pain. xx


----------



## Molly78

So sorry to hear your news Emma, I hope your son can provide you with some comfort, mine certainly has with my past failures. It’s such a tough and unfair process. Be kind to yourself xxx


----------



## miamiamo

emma10 - I am so sorry, sending warm hugs xx


----------



## Tootles

Morning

How are you doing Molly78? Hope you're managing to take it easy.

Have you had your Zita West consultation LuluLimon? What did you think? 

How are you getting on MagicPillow? I can totally relate to wanting to just get on with it. I think one of the hardest things about IVF is all of the waiting. 

How are you finding the Zita West supplements CEce40?  Is all else going well?

I'm on day 6 of Gonal F (300 per day) and am feeling much more swollen and uncomfortable than last time when I was on 225 per day.  Scan on Friday and hoping to see lots going on in there.


----------



## CEce40

Hi Tootles, 

I had an appointment with the clinic today, lining looks good so I start stimming tomorrow. No idea if the supplements are doing anything egg wise, but they're giving me luminous wee; which is an unexpected delight! I feel like a superhero. Definitely other worldly. 

I seem to have more follicles (6 on each side) than previously, but that could be a miscount as she did 'lose' my ovaries a couple of times during the scan. 

Can we talk about work for a minute? - For me, one of the biggest stresses of this whole process is that I feel like I've been trapped in my job for the last 3 years, thinking that I can't leave as I need the maternity leave and the flexibility to work from home/go part time/do whatever I need to do later on. I also feel bad about switching jobs and then suddenly announcing I'm pregnant or dumping all my baggage on them as soon as I walk through the door needing time off for ivf appointments or explaining why I'm a complete psycho who may just staple someone's face when I'm on the 'bad' drugs. 

I'm not particularly ambitious. I've never had a plan to be in x role or to get to a certain level, but I have tended to change jobs every couple of years, mainly as I get bored and need a new challenge. 

When I got the flu recently I realised that all the emotional and work stress I've been under had taken it's toll. It's just not worth it. I hate my job at the moment and feeling trapped is only adding to the stress. So I've decided that's it. I've started applying for other things and I'm going to request redundancy. There's still a bit of me that feels bad about moving to a new company knowing that I want to get pregnant - am I being an idiot? do I just need to get over that and carry on my life regardless? has anyone else gone through this while TTC?


----------



## Efi78

Hi CEce40

As i have been there I have one advice. Until you fall pregnant continue living your life and make the choices you would make normally. If you want to change jobs change jobs. You never know when the baby will arrive so you have to enjoy yourself in the meantime. When the baby comes then you make decisions around maternity etc. I was in the same position and deeply unhappy with work. Eventually I decided to change. As infertility is very stressful you need to fill your life with things that make you happy. You can't let it overshadow your life.

As for feeling bad for announcing you are pregnant as soon as you join a company:
1) who cares? You are going to have a baby. Far more important than your collegues opinion
2) sorry if I sound ruthless but I don't think that companies care much for their employees. They wouldn't blink an eye If they had to fire you. Personally I wouldn't give a s..t if I fell pregnant as soon as I joined. As for ivf, don't tell them. Take some days off or say you have some medical tests and as it is personal you don't want to give more details at the moment.


----------



## Tootles

That sounds really positive Cece40. Good to move on to stims ( you on Gonal F?) and sooo nice to know there are follies in there. Hopefully your luminous wee will light the way for them!!  I was taking wheatgrass for a while - that did all sorts in that department!

On to work....yes please, I have tonnes of steam to let off there....

In my head I totally agree with you Efi78. What you are saying makes complete sense, especially with big corporates.  Plus, and without wanting to burn my bra, we have more than enough extra burdens in life being female, without feeling guilty about pregnancy and IVF at work. 

I am totally with you Cece40 about feeling trapped though. And I hear you sister....maternity leave, flexible working, being somewhere long enough to know when you can disappear for appointments and all that jazz. 

I've worked for the same company since graduating nearly 20 years ago. I used to love it. I now absolutely hate it. It's gone from a small company to a nasty big American machine where employees are nothing but a number. It's driven by aggressive profit making and is run like a private boys club.  

So why can't I up and leave? I know it'd be easy to get another job as Im lucky enough to get approached quite often ( there's arent many females in my line of work and companies want to get there ovary statistics up - as long as the lady in question doesn't have 'too much' ambition). 

I reckon it's down to fear, laziness, and being in that comfort zone. Right now, in the deep end of IVF, I can't imagine leaving as it would just add a whole new layer of anxiety for me.  I wish I had your strength Efi78 but I'm saddened to admit that I'm going to sit it out, and if the day comes when I can take maternity leave, I'm going to take full and complete advantage wherever I can.


----------



## Efi78

Tootles
It's not about being strong it's about taking care of yourself. Since I changed jobs two years ago I fell pregnant twice and miscarried. You never know when you are falling pregnant and if it going to work. It may be today it be in 2 years. You can't be unhappy until it happens.


----------



## CEce40

Yes, exactly. This is totally the debate I've been having with myself over the past year. I feel like you're both my little conscience monkeys sat on my shoulders, whacking me over the head going "do it", "don't do it", "do it" ................

With hindsight I should have left 3 years ago and carried on as normal, just as you suggest Efi. The longer I left it then the harder it came to leave. I've just done 4 fresh cycles back to back from Jan this year, that's a lot of time away from work and I'm not sure I would have been able to do that in a new job. 

Plus we always thought it would work with each cycle. I'm less optimistic now. If this one fails we may move to DE, which I'm guessing is a much longer lead in with finding donors, syncing etc, so now may be the right time to make the break.

Like you Tootles, I was thinking that the stress of a new company would be greater than staying where I am. But the flu gave me the wake up call about how unhappy I really am and now I feel like motivation and passion I'll get from starting a new job will only help my whole outlook and a happy me will hopefully make a happy baby   

The relief I feel having just make the decision to leave makes me sure it's the right thing - obvs if I get a BFP from this cycle I may change my mind.........

Tootles - I'm on Menopur. I used gonal F on my first cycle and I was on the verge of serial killer! the crazy train was not only approaching my station it was on the platform, fully loaded and awaiting extra coaches!! I switched to Menopur on my 2nd cycle and it suits me a lot better.


----------



## Molly78

I agree you shouldn’t feel guilty, large companies cope. I work in HR for a large American company and can relate to some of the things you saying, however, the division I work for is pretty fair and they have been really supportive with flexible working even though it’s a very male dominated, traditional environment. Overall all though I m afraid we re just a number in these type of machines and I have seen so many people give so much to the company for probably little in return in the long run. 
If your job is causing stress then you should explore other options, you can feel like your not going anywhere  on this journey afraid to do anything from holidays to parties to your career too 😌

I don’t think this cycle has worked for me, had terrible night sweats the last few nights which isn’t a good sign for me. Thought this one may have worked with two good blasts and immune support but I don’t think it’s going to be.  Xx


----------



## Tootles

Morning Ladies

Molly78, when do you test to see if it's worked? I know it's so much harder to have hope when you've been through the mill, but keep going. Sending lots of positive vibes to you. Do you know what causes the night sweats? 

Cece40, I've heard Gonal F can really send some folks nuts! A friend had to stop her cycle as she just couldn't cope with it.  Good that you've found an alternative that suits you better.

On the work front, I massively envy and respect the decision to leave if you're not happy. If you feel it's an opportunity, or you can benefit from getting a buzz out of a new challenge then that's brilliant.  I agree, no point in being miserable in a job if you can see a way out. I guess I just don't see a way out at the moment. Probably because I've been there so long. Also the pressure of being the main breadwinner blah blah blah. I can hear myself making excuses!! 

I like to think (dream) that once I have a baby I'll be able to get the maternity package and then give up work (I have rehearsed my resignation speech and it's fierce) and open a cafe / gift shop/ garden centre and live happily ever after baking scones and selling plants. That is what happens right??!


----------



## Efi78

Girls
We all want to have babies and it will be great when it happens.
However, life is not just children. It's so much more. You can't postpone your life until you have a child. You have to leave your life as normal and on the side try for a baby.
Also, when we manage to have a baby we have  to be good parents. The only way that you can make your children happy is when you are happy first. Also, if you keep postponing now you will be postponing forever. Now you can't leave because of IVF. When you have a baby you can't leave because you have a family and it's not a good time with a new baby. Then the children grow up and you find another excuse. And gradually you become miserable and this will impact you and your family. 
And what happens in the highly unlikely event that you don't manage to have a baby? Everything else will also be negative and miserable. 
You build a happy life and you try for a baby on the side. You don't let this dominate your whole life.


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hi, just started what is unbelievably my 5th round of ICSI/IVF and down regging with beloved Buserlin. Ughh!
I never thought it would take this long and certainly didn't think waking up before daylight and injecting myself would become normal.
Needle, cup of tea and ready to start the day   Trying to keep a smile on my face and a needle in my stomach at the same time. Lol
I'm fabulous  40+ and using my own eggs, but can't see a thread on her for November/Dec 17 cycle buddies or would be great to be in a thread with ladies who are currently doing it.


----------



## Tootles

Hopefully fifth time lucky Tiger Smiles. It's amazing how quickly the injections become the norm.  I do mine at 8pm and have taken to getting into bed straight after - living the dream!?!

Just back from my second scan. 15 follicles and I'm told everything looked normal albeit my right ovary is out performing my left.  Looking like egg collection will be next Friday, all being well. 

Beard update - yep, still plucking. 

Job update - still hate it!

Diet update - early lunch of two eggs on toast, and a Greggs sausage role for pudding!


----------



## CEce40

Hi Tigersmiles, I'm on my 4th round so just behind you in the veteran leagues. I've switched protocols this time and giving the short one a go so no buserlin for me and far fewer needles this time - weirdly it feels like I'm missing something!

Tootles, 15 follies is great, I'd be over the moon with that. I've got my scan next Friday so we can be hosp buddies. How are you feeling? bloated or not too bad?


----------



## LuluLimon

Hi ladies.

Emma very sorry to hear your result. Downright sucks. Big hugs with your son x

Tootles 15 sounds a great number! Fingers crossed for next week EC.
Tigersmiles- yay to starting. 
Molly- when do you test? I think every time feels different. Don't overread any symptoms x
Efi/CeCe hope are having a good week.

Had our ZW consultation and booked in for a Feb EC/EAT depending on AF! Eep! Going with intralipids, clexane and prednisolone which will be different from last time. Interesting they thought the slow freezing technique might have had more of a role in our failed FETs that my immunes. Which made me feel better as I'd been kicking myself for not testing and "wasting" the embryos.
So countdown begins, I start microgynon/buserelin around xmas.

I feel with you ladies who hate their job/ don't get the support there. The best thing I did was going freelance. It was a gamble but am so happy to be out of office politics and able to say "no". There are downsides like no holiday pay but it's freezing and even if I didn't have my son would let me travel more etc. Companies are pretty demanding and I was lucky to work for a charity with a super fertility treatment policy( they were about parenthood so had to really) but I left a better job to do it. It doesn't matter if our change then get pregnant, they can just deal with it. 
Wishing you all a good weekend x
Lulux


----------



## Tootles

LuluLimon - that sounds positive and gives you a good bit of time to ease into it.  Time will fly by between now and Christmas so hope you can take care of yourself in the run up.

CEce40 - chin chin to bring hosp buddies! How are you feeling? Any side effects? Any idea when your egg collection might be?

I'm feeling really bloated and quite uncomfortable. The follicles looked noticabley different on screen in comparison to last time. I'm hoping that's a good thing. My numbers aren't up on last time, so I'm hoping that means that all of these extra supplements are helping with quality rather than quantity.


----------



## CEce40

I'm still feeling blurg. Constant headache for 3 weeks now, not sure whether my symptoms are flu, hormones or drugs. Probably a heady combo of all 3. I was doing a particularly spectacular squat at the gym today (spectacular for me, not so for my trainer who has to hover behind me like a mad thing ready to grab me as I topple backwards and garrote myself with the weights) and had a V painful side. I shied away from rolling around on the floor declaring that I'd twisted an ovary. Tad dramatic. I may save that excuse for lunges!

How did your follicles look different? were they pumping iron? having a disco? I'm intrigued. I love a challenge, I'm going to train mine to do a cartwheel


----------



## Tootles

How's the head CEce40? Hope it's eased off. Impressed that you are going to the gym. Have you had any more pains? 

How are you getting on Lulu? Hope all is well.

I've just come back from another scan. Follicles have grown nicely.  Was told egg collection could be as early as Wednesday. I was hoping it would be Friday as they'd previously advised as I really want the follicles to grow a bit more this time. 

They looked different again! Much clearer this time. Maybe because I sort of know what I'm looking for on the screen this time.  Last time i could barely make them out.  My right ovary is doing well. My left one not so much.

I know it's best to bank on quality and not quantity, but I really hope there are enough to get one or more to freeze.  Dreading the thought of doing this all over again.  I'm at the stage where it's all going too well and I'm already convinced it's not going to work. Guess that's my nature so that I don't fall so hard if this cycle isn't a success.  My emotions are all over the place!


----------



## CEce40

sounds all good, Tootles, good luck for Wednesday. How's the bloating?

My head's still a bit ropey, I'm up and down but expecting I'll be like this until EC, which I'm thinking will be next wednesday. I'm trying to go to the gym, but not really doing much, more a token gesture at the moment, really.


----------



## LuluLimon

Tootles- will your EC be tomorrow or Friday? Be positive- send those eggies lots of beautiful vibes!! Hope you get a good few out.
Cece- when will you hear about your EC date? 
I should be DR'ing just before NY...so that's lots of pudding for me as the bloating can then be blamed 😁


----------



## Tootles

I like your approach Lulu!  And Christmas pudding is mainly fruit, so it's healthy isn't it?!! I went on a guilt trip for eating a mince pie that was laced with brandy!!  I am that ridiculous woman.  Definitely blaming the medication (and complete and utter desperation at the moment).  Hopefully you can have a fun and relaxing Christmas so that your body will be nicely ready for down reg. Do you get much time off work?  

CEce - hope that your head is bearable. Do you think it's the meds or the stress of it all?  When is your next scan?  Hope it goes well. You're doing well to go to the gym at all. Credit to you. 

Do you mind me asking, which clinics are you ladies at?  I'm at Nurture in Nottingham. 

I triggered last night and go in for EC tomorrow at 8.30am.  The clinic called me at 2.45pm while I was sat at my desk in London, to say inject at 5pm and 6.30pm... I live in Nottingham and the commute is just over two and a quarter hours.  Managed to jump in a taxi, peg it to Kings Cross and made the 3.08pm train with a minute to spare!  Lovely train guard asked if I was ok.  Brain frazzled so just told her the truth and she let me off paying for a new ticket, which of course sent me into floods of tears.  So made a complete tit of myself there!  Got through the front door at 4.59pm!!  Phewww!!  Then when it got to 6.30pm I got stuck on a call with a client telling me all his woes - grrrrr!!  In the end I just cut him off!  He's not a nice man and so I definitely don't feel guilty about that one!

Thanks for the positive vibes.  Trying to stay calm and distract myself but I'm at that all encompassing point and can't focus.  It's my other half's birthday today so have just laid out his pressies and will take him a cuppa up shortly.

xx


----------



## CEce40

Bloody hell Tootles, think you win the prize for the most taxing trigger tale! Good luck tomorrow, how you feeling now? happy to be getting to the next stage?

My head's been a bit better thanks. Acupuncture helped, I had so many needles in my head at the weekend I felt like Pinhead from the Hellraiser films. I think its the hormones, I always get bad headaches when I cycle, just have to man up and get on with it really.

I've been stuck at work so not made it back to the gym. I'd give up entirely if it wasn't for my 21 year old personal trainer who sometimes seems more invested in this fertility journey than me! I'm like his life coach. He ruined my longest ever plank when he told me his on/off girlfriend of 4 weeks had said she loved him - I laughed so much I fell on the floor! ahhh, the youth of today. Please don't let this feel you into thinking I'm some sort of lycra bunny. I'm just a fatty who feels a bit better about eating cake if I get sweaty with a young boy twice a week!

I'm cycling with Guys in London. I find it quite interesting that each clinic seems to have its own pet drugs and protocols. I only have 1 trigger injection and its done 36 hours before collection, so I dont think I'd ever be asked to trigger at 5 and have to do a Starsky and Hutch across London. 

A London to Nottingham commute is monstrous, I dont know how you do it. On the plus side, if you're in London and this works for both of us we could meet up and be bump buddies, bouncing people out of the way down Oxford street......


----------



## Tootles

That made me laugh out very loud! I love your gym rationale! Glad that you're not a lycra nut (I say that out of pure jealousy as I look like an exhausted chipolata in the stuff).  Your personal trainer sounds just the ticket. Ask him if he has a cousin in Notts will you?! 

I'm fascinated by all of the different meds and methods across different clinics. I've got great faith in my clinic, but would like them to be a bit more exacting on explaining what things mean. I had a call after my last scan saying my bloods were at over 4000 which, apparently, is great. But 4000 what? That sort of thing. I see ladies posting on here with all sorts of figures and abbreviations and I'm clueless!  Hey ho, I guess ignorance is bliss!

Well I had EC today and have been flat out on the sofa all day.  They retrieved 15 which I'm pleased about, 4 more than last time. Not at all painful afterwards unlike last time, so it's all looking good for now. 

Other half was pleased as punch with his 'sterling' contribution. The description of the deposit room made me howl.  Black leather sofa and some saucy mags, with framed pictures of ladies in all manner of water based activities on the walls?! I dread to think!

So hoping for a hell of a party in that test tube tonight and some good numbers in the morning. 

I would LOVE to be bump buddies, strutting our stuff down Oxford St, showing those young'uns how it's done!  We can go smock shopping, and demand a seat on the tube. I imagine it may be more of a waddle than a strutt though, and looking for a loo every 200 yards! Bring it on!


----------



## CEce40

yay, 15 eggs is awesome. How did they get on over night? Fingers crossed they ignored the flirting, put aside the foreplay and got straight down to the dirty business. 

Sounds like the "production" rooms all follow a similar theme. Guys has definitely cottoned on to the wipe clean properties of the leather sofa. I'm not sure about your wall art though. That caters for quite an acquired taste. I've heard some dodgy stag do tales about Nottingham, but didn't really expect the general community to all be fetishists - you're wild up there!! My husband's friend did IVF with Guys years ago, they recently had a drunken conversation about how they'd both 'performed' in the same room, using the same 'reading materials'! - how beautiful that IVF can provide such a bonding experience  

Loving the exhausted chipolata image. I'm glad there's someone out there who looks as ridiculous in the company of fit people as me. If you tried to stuff a beef tomato into a child's sock, then shoved it in the microwave, you'd get a miniature version of me post warm-up. I should pay my trainer danger money!

I have absolutely no idea what people are talking about with all the tests and level of things. What the hell could 4000 be?? I dont even have blood tests with my scans. They just have a look, take a few measurements and out I go.

I had my scan today. Very mixed bag of sizes. One too big, few in the middle and 4 tiddlers. Got another scan on Sunday and hopefully EC on Tuesday. Probably only going to get 4 or 5 mature eggs so I'm hoping they will all be so pumped full of the highly priced Zita West supplements that they'll be irresistible to hubby's little wrigglers.


----------



## Tootles

Hope the scan goes well today CEce40. I've got it all crossed for you. That sounds like a good range so far.  It's amazing for quickly the tiddlers grow. Get those legs (and toes shaved if you're anything like me!!) ready for the routine draft enduring position. 

Have you been strict with hubby in terms of diet? I have no control over mine.  He seems to live off mashed potato, beans and double deckers. 

Yep, we're pretty edgy in good old Notts. We've got a Hooters and everything!! I asked my other half to pay specific attention to the dates on the mags, and go for the latest (freshest) edition! 

Well 11 eggs made it through to Friday. We get the call tomorrow to tell us how they've done over the weekend. If we work off the same percentages as last time we could have two to put back in (2.75 actually, not that I've been obsessing about the numbers or anything   )!! Fingers crossed. 

I'm going on a cookery course today, being taken by Howard Middleton (Great British Bake Off character from the series before last I think)....told you Nottingham was edgy!! We get all the best celebs up here! Anyhow, he'll be demonstrating smokes trout Christmas trees with trout caviar, and Stilton cobs (that's a bread roll if you're south of Watford).  Oh joy, two of the foods our nurse told me to just avoid during IVF to be on the safe side, and a nice reminder of fertility with the caviar!


----------



## CEce40

I LOVE Howard from Bake Off. I'm like a total fangirl. He's so cute, I just want to sit him on my mantelpiece! How was it? have you kicked your egg lasagna to the curb in favour of trout trees? (which sound equally as disgusting, to be honest)

I had my scan today. 5 mature eggs and another 2 that may creep up there by Tuesday. EC booked for Tuesday at 12, meaning a trigger at midnight tonight - but Sunday nights are bath time and early bed, everyone knows that!

We've not been told to avoid any food or change our diet in any way. Again, its fascinating the different advice, drugs etc from clinic to clinic. I think it just goes the show that there's still so many unknowns involved and really comes down to a lot of luck.

12 embies still on the go sounds great. When are you having your transfer and how many are you putting back? we always go for 3 but I'd have all of them if they'd let me. The chances of this working are so low that I have zero concerns about a multiple pregnancy - in fact I'd bloody love it!

How's everyone else getting on? it's been a bit quiet recently, hope everyone is still on track and progressing well


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hey all,
Anyone know how you can get alerts when someone posts in the group?

Cece40 congrats on the 5 mature eggs and hope the scan goes well tomorrow. How you feeling?

Tootles – I'll be with you and Cece40 on the dry Christmas train. It's going to be so tough with work parties and social events. Any tips of how you are going to get around not drinking?

As for me, this isn't my first rodeo so thought I'd be used to the side effects. But they seem to change.
I'm on Menopur 450 and Buserelin, three days away from my first stim scan. But I can't sleep and I am having night sweats and sooo irritable. Argh


----------



## Tootles

Morning

The night sweats are just awful aren't they Tiger Smiles? So uncomfortable. I hope that your side effects mean that lots is happening. Good luck with your stim scan tomorrow. 

I find the whole not drinking thing at parties soooo difficult such that I'd rather not go! I don't mind day time parties, but anything after 6pm and I'm just too miserable for words!  The only one teeny tiny thing that helps is drinking your soft drink from a champagne or cocktail glass. It fools the mind for at least 10 seconds! 

How was the trigger CEce40? Good luck today. I really hope you get good results. Do you have any injections post EC? I've just got pesseries now. Thinking of you today.

Egg transfer at 11.30am today for me. As of yesterday, no blastocysts but all 11 were still going and described as a mixed bag. She said that 30% likely to survive until today. 

My clinic will only put two and no more back in. They got a telling off by the FHEA for having too high results for multiple pregnancies so they are a bit touchy on numbers. 

Howard was lovely by the way, but his bakes weren't so hot. It was all gluten free. God help anyone who is gluten intolerant as the menu seems so bleak! I'm a full fat kinda gal and pea flour with lemon peel and half a teaspoon of olive oil just doesn't cut it for me! 

I really want a massive glass of red wine.


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Morning all,

Tootles - 11 eggs is brilliant, I really hope the transfer went well yesterday. How you feeling today?  Look after yourself today though, the sedation knocks me for six.

And uggh yeah night sweats are frankly gross and uncomfortable, sweat beads dripping from my forehead are not sexy!
I got up in the middle of the night to have a quick deodrant spray and scrambled round in the dark to change my top, then got back up within hours to inject the Menopur and Buserelin lol! But all this will be worth it. 

And yeah with you all who want a glass of something, it's so Christmasy with the smell of mulled wine in lots of places. Don't laugh but I'm actually using warm Vimto/Ribena as a substitute!!

CEce40 - how did the trigger go? Hope it went well. 

LuluLimon - good luck with the Down Regging before New Year, I know the wait to start can be annoying but it will fly by. Are you taking any additional supplements?

And I know there's been talk on her about work and juggling it, personally it's been ok for me. I've got an understanding boss but having done previous cycles I find that this time of year is easier to juggle as lots of people are off anyway and I've just taken extra leave. One bit of advice I had was that you don't have to go into specifics, I could have just said I'm having gynaecological examinations and for any time off that is acceptable.


----------



## CEce40

Tootles - hope the transfer went well, how many did you get in the end?

Tiger Smiles - The night sweats are the pits. This is my 4th cycle and I switched to the short protocol to try to avoid the impromptu waterbed moments. It's been a lot easier without the buscerelin. I've still had disturbed sleep, but only towards the end of the stims. If the night sweats are a sign of things to come then I definitely want to stop this age juggernaut if anyone has any ideas for a miracle cure!

I had my egg collection yesterday. They said they collected 6, so a bit disappointed with my 'empty sacks', which has now become my husband's affectionate name for me! Clinic just called an said that I actually had 7 (apparently yesterday they were questioning whether one was actually an egg - what the hell else could it have been!!!) and 4 have fertilised. This is the fist time we've done IVF as the other 3 rounds were icsi. We were really worried that only a couple would fertilise, so pretty happy with the 4. Transfer booked for Sunday. We've always had 3 day transfers but we're taking them to 5 this time to see if there's anything going wrong between 3 and 5 days. Fingers crossed they make it, but if not we will thaw our one solitary frosty and chuck that in instead. so first hurdle down, next update on Friday.

The drinking thing is horrible. I'd rather avoid going out than stay sober - how bad is that, I sound like a teenager! I've craftily arranged all my christmas nights out for this weekend, in between EC and transfer. Big nights arranged for Thurs, Fri and Sat then back to being good again. I'm hoping the killer hangovers that await me are sufficient to quash my desire to hit the wine and get me through the 2ww - possibly wishful thinking though, I'll let you know how that goes!


----------



## CEce40

Oh and Tiger Smiles, you can turn the alerts on in your profile. I can't remember where but I think I found it easily enough and I'm a massive technophobe, so you should be fine


----------



## Tiger Smiles

CEce40 aww thanks I will try the alerts!

But 6 then 7 eggs is brilliant!! Yeah what did the clinic think was in there, an orange. "Hiya CEce40, we are just calling as wev've unusually found an orange in there!" Lordy   

It's funny you were saying about doing IVF and not ICSI, I was actually thinking that last night. Would it have been better to do IVF only but tbh we've paid now and getting money back after paying for something, is almost as trick as getting, well an orange from an egg collection! lol

I've tried to organise xmas functions in between things too, so fingers crossed all will go well. Though the last time I went out I said I would get Mojito's for everyone, so I went up to the bar and thought I'd be smart and tell the waitress that I wanted virgin one and specifically said DO NOT announce mine is a virgin.
What does she do?  "Sooooo here are the Mojito's ladies! And YOURS is the Virgin" You can imagine everyone's faces. I then made a silly excuse saying: "Wait - nooo that's a mistake. Of coursssseee I want a regular one!". hahah


----------



## Tootles

Congrats on the 7 eggs CEce40. So 4 going strong. Nice work! Hope you make it through to Friday without breaking into the clinic to see how they are doing! I wish it was possible to get more regular updates, but I guess they don't want to disturb them.  Are you now loving the joys of pesseries?! 

I've calmed down a bit over night but was really disappointed yesterday.  Quality is a massive issue for us. Out of the 11, we only got two grade C's and a D. So none to freeze and the two Cs popped back in.  I've not got much hope.  Was quite annoyed at the way our clinic delivered the results, as it was all, well, very clinical!! It's not that I wanted a fan fair and dancing girls or anything, just a more informed approach and some explanations on a few things rather than a rushed delivery of the numbers. 

Hope the stims scan goes well Tiger. Keep us posted.

Right, I'm off to sulk in a corner for at least another 4 hours!


----------



## CEce40

Oh no, Tootles, that's disappointing. I can see why you would be so down, especially with the great number of eggs, but it's not over yet. I don't know much about blast grading, but you've still got two viable blasts on board. I've had 'perfect' grades and cells for day 3 and still got BFN. My M/C was from a lower graded batch of day 3s, so you never can tell. I understand how you feel though, I'm not convinced mine will even get to day 5, but that doesn't stop the hoping. 

So come on soldier - sulk, scream, throw things, cry, wallow, swear and shout in that corner for the next 4 hours, then pick yourself up and get back in the game. It's not over till the fat lady signs, and I've not even started my warm-up yodel yet!! x  

Tiggersmiles- it definitely felt like an orange! I'm guessing my weird mutated egg is not one of the ones that fertilised. It doesn't bear thinking about what that would develop into. Maybe I'll make medical history!


----------



## LuluLimon

Hi ladies.
Been away with work and had two weekends away so not been on.
Tootles- sorry that our results weren't what you hoped. Remember that gradings are estimations and a C can make a lovely baby.  Believe it's your time xx You are PUPO !!!
Cece- I hope all is well and you get some good blasts for Sunday. Will keep all crossed for you both.x
Tigersmiles- don't remind me of the night sweats to come!! What is your timing like? I'm at ZW in London and been on a range of supplements - pretty much since last year with our FETs. My skin is looking ok and my wee is very expensive (as DH likes to remind me!)

Hot ribena is a good alternative as is hot lemon & ginger. I've had a mulled wine or two and will have more as we go to Finland for a break next week.
Due to start the pill end of Dec- feels like a countdown now.

Is anyone doing any relaxation or visualisations this time?
Xlulu


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Evening, about to get into a nice bath and hit the sack. Kinda wishing I didn't just scoff six chocolate biscuits as I've now got a pounding headache. Umm does chocolate have an adverse effect during stims? 

LuluLimon - I'm definitely doing relaxation this time. I use two aps one called Headspace and the other called Calm. I find them really useful and this time I've been getting acupuncture and will go there tomorrow which will be day 6 of my stim phase. I've found it helpful and relaxing. Expensive though, but we'll try anything at this stage. "Bathing in cow dung will give you a baby?", count me in lol

Tootles, really sorry you feel so down, sometimes the clinics really do need to have more tact. You know you can specify who to call you? I did -  as there was one time when I had a similar call and I was so upset just from the embryologists tone. It was too clinical and matter of fact, which I didn't want. But CEce40 is right it's not over until the fat ladies sings and we are all rooting for you. x

Right that's me, my left ovary is pounding which is normally a good sign that something is going on. Though I will need to try and walk without a limp as sometimes it gets so sore that happens. Night


----------



## LuluLimon

Tigersmiles- I believe chocolate is good for you ) well dark chocolate, so that includes Jaffa cakes etc.
I'm pretty much in the cow dung et al phase.        
Bee pollen- tick, acupuncture- tick, nightly meditation- tick. I do circle and bloom last time and found it great so will try that again. I've used headspace in the past. Will look up Calm.
Sending lots of positive sticky dust and golden egg vibes out there x


----------



## pauli

Ladies, 
You make me laugh! I have read the whole thread from the beginning and now eagerly expect every new post from you ;-) 

Tootles - like others said, it’s not over yet! We are all rooting for you! They were day 5 blastocysts which is reassuring and encouraging, and they are now in the best environment possible. Focus on that, you have done everything you could. But I know it’s hard. Hope you manage to keep your sanity during 2ww ;-) I find this part the most difficult, the wait drives me mad… I always try to stay away from people during that time as much as possible as I turn into a mad person ;-)    

Cece40 – fingers crossed for those embys in the lab! If they are in the embryoscope, they are not disturbed. I used to get the digital pictures as daily updates but it was lost on me as I could not see much difference between them. Embryologist probably expected that as he always added a note to say how each emby was doing ;-)      

LuluLimon – I find “relaxation” actually not very “relaxing” ;-) I am probably not doing it right. Any tips much appreciated.  Enjoy your break in Finland. Do not overdo it with the sports activities!  

Tiger Smiles – how interesting that you are not planning to do PGS this time (I saw that on your signature). Is it a recommendation from the clinic? Or just can’t be bothered to spend plenty of £££ on this pointless exercise? This year we had 2 uber-expensive cycles in the US (can’t even bring myself to put a “total” together as will probably faint), both times we had PGS and sadly all embryos were chromosomally ‘abnormal’. For me the KEY question is: Is it the age of the eggs or sperm issues (poor morphology, DNA fragmentation, antibodies) causing the aneuploidy? If I only knew…      

We had 4 failed cycles since the start of this IVF journey, but I am not ready to give up yet! Currently researching the clinics in the Czech Republic, “IVF on the budget” is my new mission ;-)


----------



## Tootles

Evening ladies

Well, I've given myself a good talking too, pulled my tights up and am now feeling much more positive. Thanks so much for the support. It really does make a huge difference. I'm going to just enjoy being PUPO (is it terribly immature of me to giggle when I hear that acronym in my head??) and thank my lucky stars that I've managed to get to this point.

Hello Pauli - welcome to the thread.  I hear you sister on the whole cost thing!  This cycle has been £7k so far, and there are still invoices to come.  A mate told me about something called Shebox (or something like that). Apparently it's the future for IVF on a budget but it's in its infancy at the moment. I reckon in 10 years time IVF will have jumped forward so much with much higher succes rates and cheaper costs. Good luck with finding a good Czech clinic.

Tiger - hope those nasty ovary pains have gone and taken that headache with them. How are you feeling? Did you have a scan today? I really want a mojito right this minute! I bet that you could have throttled that waitress! Hope you managed to style it out and get away with it!

How are you doing CEce40? I hope that you get good news from your clinic tomorrow. Willing those eggs to have grown lots for you. Are you managing to keep your mind off it for some of the time? I find the bit between EC and ET the worst in terms of just wanting answers.  Hope you get the call early doors lovely. Are you having the glue?

Hi Lulu - i agree, chocolate is practically a vegetable! I don't think I'd get through the day (hour) without it!  Hope you don't mind being away for work. Not long now until you can start DR.  Your expensive wee made me chuckle! 

I'm going to risk putting this out there....here goes.... has anyone got a view / experience / opinion of piles or 'bum grapes' as my other half has supportively called them (oh the shame... as if the beard wasn't bad enough)?  I'm a hemorrhoid virgin and I am not enjoying this new experience one bit!  Where the hell do they come from, and for the love of God, why??!?


----------



## andrea75

Hi everyone... I've been stalking this thread for a wee while...

What clinics are you all attending?  I've low AMH ant FSH of 7 

Advice welcome xx


----------



## pauli

Hello ladies, 
Tootles - sorry to hear you are suffering from piles, like it was not enough what your body had to go through up to now!! My husband suffered from it quite a few years ago when was putting his body through a punishing exercise regime. Well, he blamed too much stress and strain on his body... he did not really treat it with anything and it disappeared eventually. So I wonder if it could be due to the stress your body has gone through in the last few weeks? Or some of the drugs' side effects? Have you asked your IVF clinic is there could be a link? 

During our 2nd IVF cycle I developed thrush after ET. I asked the clinic, they said 'take nothing' but after a few days I caved in and used the pill for it as I just could not bear it. The cycle was BFN, I will always wonder if the thrush or the pill had something to do with it...    

Cece, did you have your ET?

Hi Bumblebee, your FSH is nice and low, did you have your estrogen measured too? I am currently trying to decide on a clinic - researching clinics in CZ as can't afford London's clinics anymore. Plan to cycle in Feb 2018.

Have a good weekend everybody  
xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Welcome Pauli and Bumblebee!

Bumblebee we're at Zita West- have some immune issues so seeing how it goes.

Pauli- good luck on your clinic search. I'm mostly ignoring the cost as it's huge- it's likely to be our last fresh cycle though.

I've read enough success stories of women in their 40's so there's just no damn reason why it won't be us! 

Ha- no sports for me. We're going in the hope of snow (no chance here in London) and a visit to the Moomin Museum- I love them 
Cece- hope all is ok for transfer xx

Tootles/Cece- how much exercise were you doing pre-stimming? I'm doing 5 X weekly and wondering if I should maybe swap over running to something more gentle?


----------



## Tootles

Morning ladies

Glad to say that the bum grapes have disappeared? Pheewww! Still rocking the beard though.

Welcome to the thread Bumblebee.  We're at Nurture. I'm constantly curious as to why clinics are so different in their treatment.  Hope you find a good one.

Hi Pauli - how's your clinic search going? Have you been able to get much info? 

LuluLimon - I'm not a big exerciser at all but I do a fair amount of walking, gardening and house work! Wow, 5 times a week! I do admire you! Our clinic just said 'gentle' exercise. I know people who do plenty of yoga pre IVF.  

Tigersmiles - how are those night sweats? Hope you're ok. Did you have your scan? Hoping all is as it should be.

CEce40 - thinking of you Hun.  How's it going? Isn't today transfer day? Hope it's all going well.

AFM, feeling rather menstrual. I caved this morning and did a test which was negative.  I'm weirdly not too upset as I know it's early still, but also ever since the grading results I've just had a feeling this time isn't going to work for us.  Already thinking of round three. Hey ho.


----------



## CEce40

hey everyone, sorry I've been AWOL for a few days. I've been making hay while the sun (erm, snow?) shines. Couple of christmas dos and a night out before the transfer today. I tried to be good ish, but must admit I was hungover in the stirrups today!

Well, I can safely say I've beaten you Tootles - no blasts at all! We still transferred 3 fresh embryos, 1 compacted and 2 compacting. The quality and cell division at day 3 was really good, so the embryologist thought it was worth giving these a go rather than thaw my frozen blast. Apparently at the compacting stage they cant be graded. They may be late developers, or they may not develop at all. If they do make it to blast Obviously we wont know what grade blasts they are. My frozen one only reached blast stage at day 7 and that's a 4bb (I think) so they're working on the assumption that I'm naturally slow (I could have told them that months ago!!). So essentially, not a clue. Could be great, could be [email protected]! I'm neither positive nor negative about it so really have no expectations at all. Roll on the waiting game!

Lululimon - I was probably doing around 3 times a week at the gym before stims. I only stopped when I got the flu and then got interrupted by work commitments. My clinic just said to do what you're used to. Maybe don't decide to climb Everest during the stims, but if you're a regular exerciser then carry on. I think a lot of it is just what you feel comfortable with and how you react to the drugs. 

Tootles - glad you're feeling positive again. How are you such an early bird, even on the weekend? if you're one of those annoying morning people then I'm afraid we may not be friends!!  

Pauli & Bumblebee - Hi both. I'm with Guys in London. Not many bells and whistles here compared to the comments others have made about their clinics. bog standard but trustworthy; and I like the ethics in that they dont offer the latest fads unless they've got hard evidence it can help.


----------



## pauli

Good evening ladies
Cece - congratulations on your ET, like the logic of transferring 3 embys ;-) Fingers crossed that there is the ONE you need among them! 

Tootles - I think it is too early to test. When is your OTD (given by the clinic)? From what I read some of the pre-period symptoms can be very similar to the early pregnancy symptoms. So there will be time to be a defeatist later ;-) Btw I have noticed too the early time of your post - really, on Sunday!? 

LuluLimon - I agree with what Cece said about the exercise, I had the same advice from the clinic. Some exercise is good, just do not overdo it and do as much as your body feels comfortable with. 

I have been in contact with 5 clinics in CZ, looked at their website and and asked the questions via email. The prices vary quite a bit between the clinics but still the treatment is so cheap in comparison to what we paid on our previous cycles in London and USA. It makes me wonder how they can charge so much less. I have just read here on FF am experience of a lady who went to a clinic in Kiev (Ukraine) and it was not very good.  

Well, we are planning to visit one of the clinics early January, meet their IVF consultant and also genetic specialist as we would like PGS on our embryos (if we bet any blastocysts). They offer also consultations via Skype, but I think a visit to the clinic will be better to see the premises & the lab, to meet the doctors face-to-face. I will let you know how it went ... 

Hope you are enjoying the weekend
xx


----------



## CEce40

Oh damn, Tootles, I completely missed that you'd taken a test when I did my last post - too much to catch up on after a few days offline. Its great you weren't too disappointed. Yes, its still early, so not surprising it was BFN. As you've caved now though, maybe you should carry on testing every couple of days until the OTD. I usually test early and, for me, it does prepare me for the bad news. Hubby not so happy with that though, he'd rather wait. 

Anyway, onwards and upwards. It could all change again in a couple of days...........or not, but it sounds like you've got the right attitude and not pinning all your hopes on it. Fingers crossed you will get a beautiful surprise x


----------



## andrea75

Yes my Estradiol was 200. I'm not sure what this all means?

Hi to everyone xx


----------



## pauli

Hi Bumblebee, your estradiol seems fine too. FSH and estradiol are measured together as elevated estrogen will often be artificially "suppressing" the FSH level down. FSH measured on day 2 or 3 indicates how your ovaries will respond to stimulation. What are you planning as your next step?


----------



## andrea75

My parents have been kind enough to offer us one more cycle. We are planning either Serum or Gennet.  It's such as minefield as Serum have bombarded us with info. I've even sent off a menstrual blood sample for testing. It showed Chlamydia so getting Gp apt to ask would they prescribe us the antibiotics.  

I'm just so confused by it all.  We meant to cycle last year but did nothing


----------



## Tootles

Evening lovely ladies

Great to hear you had a transfer CEce40.  Nothing wrong with being a bit slow. Ask that famous tortoise. Plus three in is a good number. I like the approach of your clinic - ours refuses to put three in.  So your test date is Christmas Eve. I sincerely hope you get further along than 5 days before you test. I like your rationale though about being prepared. So now it's time to take it easy lady. I hope that hubby of yours is waiting on you hand and foot.

Pauli - I was messing about earlier and came across a website called My IVF Journey. It's based in Notts and they arrange IVF in CZ for folks in the UK. May be worth a look. I've been put off going abroad, but blimey O'Reily - it's soooo much cheaper! I might reconsider.  

Bumblebee40 - how lovely are your folks?!  Have you had any tests done in the UK? It's mad to think you were diagnosed with chlamydia by having to send a sample so far away yourself. Hope you can get it sorted.

I am defo an early riser. In fact anything gone 6.30am is sleeping in for me. But....that is only because my stupid body clock won't switch off from the 5am alarm clock which is required because of my stupid two hour commute to my stupid job.  It doesn't feel like that long ago when I'd be coming in at 5am!! 

Write, I'm off to wax my tash. I am officially the hairiest I have ever been thanks to glorious IVF!


----------



## CEce40

The 3 embryo transfer is only available to over 40s - finally a perk to having wrinkled ovaries!

My test date is 21st. Our clinic sets the OTD as 16 days after egg collection. Then, if BFN, another test a week later just in case, but you can stop taking the progesterone after the first negative. 

On the work front (sorry to dredge up and old topic), I've convinced my boss to let me take redundancy in the restructure proposals we've been developing - yayyyyyyy!   I need to make my final decision before 19th Jan, so I'll know what's happening with this cycle, and then, hopefully, agree a leave date. I feel like such a weight has been lifted.


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hiya!    Yeah a few rocky days that I’ve been smiling through but how’s everyone? 

CEce40 - Night seats are over phew! Well done on the work front and heheh “finally a perk to wrinkle ovaries!” Yeah we deserve some don’t we. 

LuluLimon - not long to go until you start the pill. And yes totally demolished the dark choccies. Wow love all your relaxation things. What is the Bee pollen though?

Tootles, aw bless you. But don’t they say that you need to do a full test nearer the time as well? Don't give up yet.  Re “bum grapes” no experience of them. I’m afraid. Have your clinic said anything? 

Hi Pauli, I've been at CARE and they've been great. (One time one of the nurses actually cried, when our cycle was unsuccessful! It was lovely, but...you know lol)
Re PGS we’ve felt that with PGS we couldn’t get over that final hurdle, so perhaps this time we should just let nature decide. Also we felt the conversation around PGS was changing - even in the time we’ve been trying. We’ve to a lot of different experts who’ve said that if you are 40 plus, then best put the embryo’s back as PGS only tests a small part. So we’ll give it a shot.

Bumblebee40 - hiya! I know everyone’s experience is different but I had an even lower AMH, just over 3 and taking a course of DHEA helped raise it for .

AFM - well I had my day ten scan day with a fab nurse, who managed to find my vag! Lol! Take victories where we can. But jokes aside I've still got the two folly’s and the Doctor wants me to trigger tomorrow night. Going to have to somehow duck out of the work Christmas party I've organised. I really can't be doing with injections in the restaurant bathroom!
Arghh So Thursday will be transfer day - I just pray there are two eggs in there, then they’ll transfer them on day 2! 
I saw four magpies today and was like a crazed woman chanting: "one for sorry, two for joy, three for a girl, four for a boy!".


----------



## Tootles

Morning Ladies

Sorry to hear you've had a few rocky days Tiger. It's amazing what we IVF'ers can hide behind a jolly smile isn't it?  So it's trigger day for you today.  Good luck!!  I hope you are taking it easy.  Don't worry about missing the Christmas lunch. I sat through six hours of a work Christmas lunch yesterday, pretending to drink gin and tonic which was really just sparking mineral water, as everyone else was downing copious amounts of red wine and getting louder and louder and LOUDER!! It was exhausting!  

On the PGS front, I'm definately sold on the latest research that suggests it's not all it's cracked up to be.  Our clinic offers it as a service. I was worried about what happens if you find out you have a pregnancy but with massive issues, but when I asked about PGS I was told not to bother given my age, the risk associated with actually doing the tests, and new research saying a poor result at that stage doesn't mean it won't develop into a healthy egg by Mother Nature sorting it out. My clinic was quite honest, and just said that if a problem arises down the line, it will just have to be dealt with by Mother Nature or intervention. 

CEce40 - massive congrats on the work front. That must be such a huge relief and one less thing to feel stressed about. What a bonus not having to decide until Jan too. How are you feeling?  Have you managed to take it easy? 

AFM - still feel like I'm about to come on at any minute, but did another test this morning and there is a line - really faint and I do have to squint a bit, but it's definately a line!  Hope restored. Roll on next Tuesday for official test day.  I could really do with a glass of red right now!!


----------



## CEce40

oh my god Tootles, that's brilliant. So happy for you and your squinty eyes! Hope this restores your faith in the C embryos, I love it when the underdogs  come through.

Tiger Smiles, fingers crossed for your collection. It must be a lot of pressure only having the 2, but hopefully that means that all the nutrients, goodies, energy, good vibes have all been pumped into those 2 precious little follies. 

I agree with both of you on the PGS front. I think if I was younger and was producing a lot of high quality blasts that just weren't getting anywhere, then I might consider it as a way of picking the best few. It's really not an option for us and they dont do it at our clinic anyway as they still think its a bit unproven - for all the reasons you both mentioned. 

Pauli and Bumblebee - your conversation fascinates me. I have no idea what you're talking about!! I'm so clueless with these numbers. I dont even know what FSH is.

I'm working from home today and already wondering when I can test. I'm thinking Sunday.........


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies mind if I join your thread?

I'm 41 (42 in Feb) and about to start my first round of IVF at Nurture in Nottingham (hope you'd recommend them Tootles lol)   Have to confess that I find the whole thing rather frightening .

We've been TTC since losing our little girl at full term  in June 2016 and since we're racing that biological clock we've borrowed off family to fund 2 rounds of IVF through Access Fertility. I have to confess that I'm not that hopeful of success but we have to try   

I'm due to start DR drugs on New Years day so at least I shouldn't be too grumpy for Christmas lol

Love and baby dust to all, and gentle congratulations Tootles, hope it's a sticky bean xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Just a quickie from me- on mobile so hard to read.
Eep a faint line is a line!!! Roll on Tues for you Tootles
Cece- good news about your work. 
Tigersmiles- hope the collection goes well x
Butterfly- hi!..I'll be DR in Jan too. very sorry for your loss XXX

Off to Finland on hols tmrw for a few days. Have a lovely weekend ladies..the fake G&Ts will be worth it!

PS bee pollen was recommended time for egg quality. Took it last cycle too. I can't take DHEA as slightly pco. It's great for my nails anyway &#128523;Hi Pauli & Bumblebee


----------



## Shelbo76

Hi Ladies, 

Been following these posts for a few weeks now whilst waiting for my fertility follow-up which was today and have sadly been advised that I have low ovarian reserve as my FSH was 15 and they requested an AMH test after this which was reported back as <1.1 (actual number wasn’t on file).

Whilst I was half prepared for this given the subsequent request for AMH it still came as a shock and I’m devastated and it didn’t help that my consultant wasn’t very empathetic and basically implied it’d be a miracle for me to conceive naturally or using my own eggs via IVF. I’ve been discharged from the clinic (NHS) and guess we’re on our own now. Fortunately all other tests/scans were fine including my partner’s SA (he was so worried it would be him letting me down bless him).

I started contacting some local private clinics whilst I was waiting for my NHS referral and have also contacted a couple of clinics in Czech Republic. I think it’s more than likely we’ll cycle abroad and I’d like to try with my own eggs first, I assume I could get a consultation at a U.K. clinic for a 2nd opinion on tests and further tests if required and obtain their advice on the best treatment options for me?

I’m eager to get the ball rolling as time’s probably not on my side. Any of you experienced similar issues or cycled or considered cycling abroad?

Thanks in advance x


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hey,
How's everyone here on the the fabulous over forties group?
Can I just quickly ask please. Did any please tell me if you started your pessaries the same day as egg collection?


----------



## pauli

Hi TigerSmiles, yes, started cyclogest in the evening of EC as a suppository, so not vaginal pesaries. Hope all is well and good luck for the ET xx


----------



## pauli

Hello Ladies, 
Welcome Shelbo, I am sorry you had such a rubbish experience at your NHS clinic. I started fertility examinations at 39 and was shocked to find out that I was too old in fertility world. That’s all I heard from everybody, so now, more 2 years later, I got used to that ;-) 

In the process I have learnt that all the blood tests and examinations do not mean much. My sister who had success on her first IVF attempt aged 41, had a few laparoscopies to treat endo and cysts expirations throughout her adult life, her AMH was undetectable (!), AFC about 6, and still managed to give birth to a perfectly healthy boy without any complications in pregnancy. In comparison to my sister, I have been always super healthy (never had gynae problems), have much higher AMH and AFC up to 18! None of these results guarantee success though … 

On one hand I think it is a good idea to have more consultations at different clinics (if you can invest time and money into the process) as you will be able to compare their suggested treatments. On the other hand it can be confusing as their approaches can be very different. I often found myself torn what to actually believe. I did a lot of reading on internet trying to make sense of this highly confusing IVF world…. 

From what I read ladies with high FSH and low AMH had success on protocols with very little stimulation (natural modified IVF) or mild stimulation. There are more clinics which will offer such a treatment, one of the leading clinics in the UK in this field is Create. 

I had 2 cycles in the UK and 2 in the USA without success and currently researching the clinics in CZ. It is a decision mainly cost driven. Happy to share what I found out so far if you are interested.    

TigerSmiles – How did your EC go? Are you doing day 3 transfer? Good luck!  

LuluLimon – Interesting about the bee pollen (it must be one of the very few things I did not yet tried ;-) Did you take it in tablets? Have a great holiday in Finland, hope your little one enjoys the snow! 

Butterfly – Really sorry to hear about your baby girl, you must have been heart broken. I cannot even imagine how one copes with that. A lot of baby dust! 

Cece – Congratulations on the job situation, a brave decision! How are you feeling in your 2ww? Still planning to start testing on Sunday? 

Tootles – I hope you managed NOT to drink that red wine ;-) I hope Tuesday brought ‘official’ good news!!! ;-)  

Have a lovely weekend everyone xx


----------



## Tootles

Hi Ladies

Hello Pauli - how is the research going on the Czech clinics? Yep, I managed to stay off the red wine! Just made do with sniffing an open bottle!?

How are you getting on CEce40? You managed to hold off testing?  Hope that you're doing well.  Have you been giving your work scenario much thought?  More importantly, how is your personal trainer and how is his love life?!

Hi Butterfly1976 - how are you getting on? So very sorry to read of your loss. You've really been through it. I can relate to that feeling of just needing to get on with IVF. Don't be frightened. It's bizarre just how quickly it becomes part of everyday life!  Nurture is great on the results front and I'd have no hesitation in recommending it for that reason.  Your dates will be easy to remember with you starting on New Years Day.  I've found having an IVF note book really handy as you end up with lots to remember and lots of bits of paper and, if you're anything like me, forget everything that's said within two minutes!!

Lulu - I hope you're having a gorgeous time in Finland! What's it like over there? 

Hi Shelbo76 - have you managed to find somewhere to give you a second opinion?  I've learned from this forum just how different clinics approaches and advice can be so I'd definately be in support of looking for a second opinion. You can send yourself wappy on the Internet. Nothing beats talking to an expert who you feel you can trust.  Consultants without empathy drive me nuts. It's a critical part of the job and whilst I'm sure no one expects a warm cuddle, a bit of tact goes a heck of a long way.  When I was looking for a clinic I went to their open days, and got to speak to consultants directly before committing which I found really useful. Good luck with it all.

Tiger Smiles - I started the pesseries the day after egg collection. One in the morning and one at night. Unlike Pauli though, I was advised to insert them vaginally.  I call them my fanny candles!!  How are you getting on?

AFM - did another test yesterday and that cute little line is still there looking a tad darker. I'm still sooooo aware that it's ridiculously early days, and after last time I'm trying to be measured in any excitiment. I haven't told my other half as he is adamant I shouldn't test early. Bar humbug!! Had some crippling pains at work on Thursday but have put them down to wind and ridiculous constipation! Yep, a beard, piles and now a windy bum blockage!! Pleaaaase let it be worth it!!


----------



## CEce40

Hi all and hello weeeeeeekkkend!!

welcome Butterfly, so sorry for your loss. Good luck with the down reg. 

Shelbo, I've only cycled with Guys in London up to now, but if this one fails then I'm thinking of moving to a clinic in Spain and possibly trying a tandem cycle, have you heard of that? I've only just found out about it and apparently not available in the UK. Its where they stimulate your own eggs at the same time as an egg donor. The aim for your own eggs is to get quality rather than quantity (the donor eggs should bring the quantity so less concern that you'd be left with nothing if your own eggs don't work out). Once the embryos are developed then you choose whether the transfer your own, donor or a combination. I think its a lot to get your head around, but may be worth thinking about.

Have a fab time away, Lululimon. Not jealous at all!!

Congrats Tootles, keep those dark lines coming. How many days post transfer did you get your faint line?

I tested this morning. BFN. I'm not too concerned yet as I know its early. I'll test again tomorrow as it's the weekend. If another BFN then I'll wait until Wednesday when I'm off work - I can't face it on a workday, heading into the office is stressful enough! 

It feels strange this time. I'm almost convinced I'm BFP, but I have absolutely no basis for it. I've had a lot of cramping, waves of mild nausea and hormonal headaches that I've not had before in the 2ww. I'm on steroids this time which is new, so it could just be down to that. One minute I'm thinking "yep, that's it, I know my body, I am woman, I just FEEEEELLLLL it!" and then an hour later all the symptoms will disappear and I'm like "nope, not a clue about my body, what was I thinking, I don't even moisturise properly, I am fake woman!". Arrrrrgh. I'm usually quite relaxed at this point. I WILL NOT BECOME A CRAZY LADY!!  

On the work front I think I'd still want to take redundancy even if I'm BFP. If I dont take it now then I dont know when I'd get another opportunity. The redundancy would be more than I would get in maternity pay so it might just be worth getting out now. We'll see, I may get cold feet after Christmas, but once my mind's made up Im usually pretty much set.

Cosy night in with the Strictly final tonight. Feet up, snuggle blanket over my knees, tower of profiteroles to chunk up on. Perfect.............(actually, now I think of it, the nausea could relate to the mountains of chocolate I've been inhaling recently.......)


----------



## Tootles

Debbie was robbed!! That is all I will say on the matter!!


----------



## CEce40

I hear ya sister. scandalous.


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Thank you for your kind words, I can honestly say that losing our little girl was the worse moment of my life. I had no idea that anything could go wrong at that late stage (we were over our due date FFS) but I've sadly found out since that it happens everyday even if the odds are only 1 in 200 someone has to be that one. We will always love and miss our little girl but that doesn't change the fact that we want a baby so here we are...

Lulu - glad to hear you will be down regging in Jan too, we can compare grumpiness lol

Tootles - glad you would recommend Nurture. We went to their open evening in May and really liked the place and the people. Been on DHEA since May too as they really recommended it. Did stop taking it for a while from July - Aug though as we got married and I didn't want the acne in my wedding pics! (I know it's shallow, but it gets you down). AMH was 6.4 in March and was 7.2 in November so it may be doing something   I seem to have avoided the beard at least, but my hair is a lot thinner than it used to be   

Sending love to you all


----------



## Butterfly1976

Also totally agree about Debbie, she should have a trophy for those splits alone


----------



## andrea75

Hi all

Sorry not posting much but haven't got much to say.  We have however decided that we will cycle with Gennet Prague.  Need to make consultation appt but that will be next year.. Also need to have all relevant bloods done too 

Hope you're all well & getting excited for 🎄


----------



## Tootles

Morning Ladies

I hope the weekend was kind to everyone.

CEce40 - I like the sound of this tandum cycling. I wonder why it's not available in the UK. I thought the difference between uk clinics was significant, but it appears the difference between countries is insane. How are you feeling in yourself? Keep those positive vibes coming lady. 

I got that faint line 8 days after egg transfer but when I say faint, I mean ridiculously so. I tested two days later and it was a tad more visible but then after another two days (yesterday) it was faint again. Just tested now and it's the darkest yet.  I know I should be jumping for joy, but have learned the hard way that there's a long way to go yet.  Play it cool Rodney, play it cool.

Butterfly1976 - huge congrats on getting married! That must have been one heck of an emotional day. I totally get the DHEA thing. It's a love hate relationship with that drug! Have you met Mr Raine-Fenning yet? He's rather dishy in a guilty pleasures sort of way.  Another tick in the box for Nurture! Ooh, and they have good magazines to read!  Every little helps I guess!

Congrats on making a decision on which clinic to go to Bumblebee40. Must be good to get that done as I don't imagine it's easy to select one.  I've left Christmas a bit late this year. Had a mad panic in the car yesterday when I realised how close it is! A few more cards to send and lots of presents to buy yet.

AFM - I've still got 26 days holiday to take so was going to have this week off. Annoyingly, 5 clients have put a spanner in the works so looks like I'll be saying cheerio to that holiday, again. Grrrrrrr.  Will work from home though, and try and stick to mornings. Official test day is tomorrow so I've invested in some whizz bang fancy pee sticks. Man they are expensive. I've got one cheap online test left so will order another job lot of those. I don't think I'll stop testing until any child of mine turns 21 years.


----------



## CEce40

evening ladies, 

Uber frustrating today. I tested on sat and sunday, (6&7dp5dt) and nada. Not even with a squinty eye, bright light and lashings of hope. But, me thinks, all is not lost, at least no sign of AF. 

Then today, spotting. My typical pre-AF sign. Bugger! "No" kicks in the positive little devil on my shoulder (the one that really likes me to eek out every last drop of hope I can), this could just be implantation. I had bad cramping on Saturday, so if that was the little embies gouging holes in my uterus then surely I'd get a BFP if I test today, right? 

So I geared myself up, tried to 'brew' an expert sample for as long as possible and then bam, I'd know. This was going to be it. If it was BFN, I was going to take it gracefully, gently bow out and console myself with a huge bucket of wine. But no, I wasn't banking that my one remaining test would be a dud! After 45 minutes it decided to come to life and a control line appeared, but no elusive positive line. Okay, it's what I thought after seeing the spotting today, but probably not conclusive enough to hit the bottle guilt free. 

So, I think I'm out of the game, I'm preparing for a failure, but still I remain sober!!!! Roll on Thursday when I can officially ditch the drugs and get off my   

Good luck to everyone else. Enjoy the 'official' test tomorrow, Tootles. Yes there's a long way to go, but it's all about jumping those hurdles x


----------



## Shelbo76

Hi and thanks so much to those who have replied to my post with advice! I had my mum come and spend time with me for the weekend which has taken my mind off things a little and I'm feeling a lot more hopeful now. I filled my step-sister in on our consultation last night and bless her she's offered to donate her eggs if we get to the DE stage. I was quite humbled by her offer but I know I'd have probably done the same if it was her, she's 29 and despite having had a fallopian tube removed after an ectopic has produced my beautiful niece and 3 nephews who I love to pieces.

Pauli - I have made contact with Create to arrange for a consultation and hoping I will have access to my NHS notes/tests before then. One of my friends had a natural cycle with them a few months ago, collected 2 eggs but only one transferred, sadly it was a BFN, will try and see if I can get more info from her although she cycled at the St Albans clinic and I'm in Birmingham. Which CZ clinic(s) are you looking to cycle with, would be interested to find out more from you?

Good luck to those of you in the middle of cycles and waiting to test x


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Cece40 lol "And get "off my   !" 
Yeah Im out of the game too with this round. But will try again in the new year. Keep your head up.

Tootles - how on earth do you end up with 26 days leave - now that would be amazing.

Bumblebee - glad you've made a decision for Prague. When do you think you'll start.

Lulu76 and Butterfly1976 - Ill be joining you down regging in Jan.

Shelbo - how amazing of your sister-in-law to offer you that. What's your thoughts on it?

AFM The two follicles, produced two embies but they didn't even make it to Day 2 for transfer.   
So I've got one more try with current centre and my own eggs, but at the review Dr said after this time depending on outcome we should consider DE. My DH face dropped, I can see it's absolutely not what he wants. He loves me and wants my genes - that sounds so odd when I write it. Arghh this is so tough! We can keep trying with my own but we are over £30k down and not just the finance but emotional part. 
What's everyone's thoughts on DE? How did you get your head round it?


----------



## StrawberrySundae

Hi everyone, I thought about joining this thread when it started, but am not having my next cycle for a while yet. Having a hysteroscopy and further tests next month (then a wisdom tooth out in Feb!) Its nice to see how much you've been supporting each other and lots of funny stories!   Congrats to the lucky ones and big hugs to the bfn's - keep going   

I'm finding things hard at times and this morning a taxi driver told me about his elderly childless aunt who'd had 6 miscarriages & gave up on having children, which made me wonder why I'd had to have that conversation as I've had 6 miscarriages myself   I've moved onto DE but even that didn't work last time so we have to see if we'll be more lucky with our next lot of pgs results  

Tigersmiles I can relate to the scary sums involved and struggle with moving onto DE, altho I'll now be very happy for that to work! I haven't come across anyone who regretted it  

Good luck all x


----------



## Tootles

Not a happy bunny reading this morning.  I'm upset and angry for you both CEce40 and Tiger. 

CEce40 - I don't imagine for one minute that you'll be feeling chirpy today but get your beautiful ass down to Boots or wherever and get another test ready for the morning.  Having some certainty will help clarify things in your mind. You've got fight in you lady and if this time hasn't been the one, then perhaps next time will be. I'm sending you a massive hug you beaut. Keep going (but tell Zita to stick her pricey vitamin cocktails where the sun don't shine). 

Tiger - so sorry you didn't get to transfer. There are no silver linings other than some vague relief that if its not going to work this time, better knowing as soon as you can, so you can give yourself a break and prepare for your next go.  The DE dillema isn't easy. No doubt you'll have a lot of thinking to do. I defo think its worth trying to speak to people who have gone down this route face to face. My last midwife before the MC had donated her eggs and just hearing her reasoning made me think it could be an option.  Good luck with it Hun x

Shelbo - congrats on taking the next step by booking you're consultation. Hope it goes well.

Strawberry - welcome to the thread.  Has anyone been able to tell you why you might be miscarrying?  My heart goes out to you. After 2 MCs I can't imagine what 6 must feel like - other than an overwhelming sense to knee that taxi driver squarely in the fun sacks!  Your comment about no one regretting DE is really encouraging.  I imagine once you've got your head around it, there's a renewed sense of hope which we over 40s especially deserve.  Good luck with the tooth extraction X 

AFM - today is OTD so I pee'd on my posh stick and it's a positive. It says I'm likely 1-2 weeks which makes me nervous as I think it should say 2-3 weeks. Last time I got to see a heart beat but it measured very small so this slow start doesn't fill me with the cheer I'd hoped for.  I'm just also so gutted that we can't all keep going together this time. If it wasn't frowned upon to swear, I'd be chucking plenty of verbal bombs down right now.


----------



## pauli

Strawberry – Welcome to the thread. So sorry to hear about your TTC journey. Hopefully further tests and hysteroscopy will give you some answers. Have you done any immune testing in the past? I know it’s not a widely accepted approach but some clinics strongly believe in it.            

Tootles – That’s great news! Quite sensible to stay on the cautious side after the previous experience. Are you doing the blood tests? If your beta levels are doubling, it could give you a bit more confidence in your BFP. Fingers crossed that this BFP will last 9 months ;-) And hope you get some time off, how on earth do you survive without taking your annual leave ;-) xx 

Cece40 – It could be too early to test! Hoping you will get a positive test later in a week. Don’t fall off the wagon yet! ;-)

Shelbo – Good next step to talk to Create and see what they will advise. As for the medical records, yes, NHS clinics can be slow. Usual process requires multiple chasing over the phone and the worst case scenario is a personal visit if everything else fails! As for clinics in CZ, I will send you a message with some info. 

TigerSmiles – So sorry to hear about your cycle. Totally understand the costs associated. Donor eggs is a big decision. A friend mentioned to me that there are seminars for those interested in DE which will tell you about all aspects, what to prepare for, how to deal with everything …    

We already had a few chats with my DH as he will be 48 in Feb and feels a bit of pressure to have the family now. So he is pushing for DE while I am still trying to get my head around it. I have some doubts if our failure at IVF is just due to my ‘old’ eggs. A few SA showed very poor morphology and elevated DNA fragmentation (30%). Surely this must have adverse impact on cultivation of the embryos in the lab?  

Well, I pushed for more OE cycles, and besides having ICSI I would like us to use some sperm selection techniques (IMSI, PICSI, MACS…) So we have booked a consultation for Jan with one of the Czech clinics. Let’s get Xmas out of way and bring Jan on ;-)


----------



## LuluLimon

Hello ladies!
Tootles- congrats on the line! I know the next bit is worse, especially for us lot xx The hairy chin will be worth it lol
Cece- it's still not OT yet so hang in there x Wishing that embie all the sticky dust.
Tiger- sorry the embies didn't make it. Have they suggested doing anything different for Jan? 
Butterfly- what protocol are you on? I'm kinda dreading takin the pill as I never got on well with it.
Strawberry- hello! I think we might have cycled previously?
Bumblebee- glad to hear you have a clinic selected. That in itself is quite an achievement.
Pauli- The bee pollen is Apimist, it's like a very strong tasting honey with royal jelly, propolis and was recommended in my prior IVF for egg quality. As my husband says there's no way of knowing if it worked last time, but I'm keeping going! I'm Miss PopAPill our bathroom has so many vitamins in it!
Shelbo- Hi there! welcome to the thread.

afm- Finland was lovely, snowy and a good break before Xmas and all the drugs start. I got to my Moomin Museum which was magical. this week I have our first ever tax returns to prepare which I am not looking forward to (


----------



## CEce40

morning all, 

Sorry Pauli, I didn't so much fall off the wagon, it was more like a nosedive, with a triple somersault and faceplant under the wheel! Bleeding got heavier yest so I turned up at my friends door with a bottle of wine and a pregnancy test, like a proper northern lass (I may live in London, but there's not getting away from my classy undertones!). Needless to say that I drank the wine. And then I drank a bottle of Baileys, of all things. I've got a bit of a head this morning and a horrifically furry tongue, but no work till 2018 now so it's officially Christmas and therefore I cannot be considered a lush (that's the rule, yes?).

Yes I'm disappointed, yes I'm angry that we have to go through all this for something that just seems so natural and easy for most, but am I devastated? am I screaming and throwing things around the room? not really. I guess I'm just attuned it now, this feels like the norm. For me it's about perspective. I love my husband so much and it's sad that we can't be parents now, but this whole infertility journey has only made us stronger in a way I just couldn't have imagined. Within a week of returning from our honeymoon I was rushed into emergency surgery for my ectopic and my brand new husband suddenly became my next of kin. 2 years on and hospital seems to be our second home. We've got through everything with a smile and a joke and such unshaking support for each other that I have absolutely no doubt that WHEN we become parents, we'll not only appreciate it all the more, but we'll be blooming brilliant!

So Tiger, it looks like we may be heading down the donor route as well. Like yours, my husband is less keen. He's got his heart set on a mini me running around the place. We'll think about it over Christmas and decide that to do in the new year, which seems quite fitting - move on from one opportunity towards the next. The Donor Network UK run 2 day workshops for couples thinking about moving to DE, we're thinking that might be a good start to help make our decision. StrawberrySundae, thank you, your comment about not knowing anyone who's regretted it was spot on and very helpful. Ironically I was going through the process of donating my eggs when I met my husband. Unfortunately the clinic didn't move fast enough and I would have turned 36 before EC so couldn't do it (the legal limit for donating in the UK is 35 and 364 days - or it was when I was looking into donating). 

Tiger - sorry your transfer didn't happen. Hope you're managing to stay strong. I'll join you for a well deserved drink over christmas
Lululimon - Moomin museum, amazing, tell me more!
Tootles - try not to worry too much about the pee stick dates, I'm sure it'll move up in a few days if you tested again. You're flying the flag for the oldies at the moment so look after yourself and lets hope this is the first of many magical child friendly Christmas'


----------



## pauli

Hi Cece, so sorry to hear it is defo BFN. It seems you have a really supportive and lovely DH. And good friends! Well, at least you can now enjoy the festive season with all the treats and plenty of wine


----------



## StrawberrySundae

Hi CEce, so sorry to hear that. But no work til 2018 means you can now enjoy endulging in whatever you like! Glad the journey's made you strong! I'm not sure what it's made me, losing my marbles I think! But it will be nice to look back proudly for getting through it  

Tootles thank you yes after 6 that's probably why I'm going a bit dotty! My mcs have been for different reasons but at least 2 were definitely due to chromosome abnormalities due to aging! Still exploring immune testing to see if anything else comes up. It's exciting times for you - I do hope so, keep going!!

Pauli yes thanks hopefully the hysto will be worth doing too. I am not looking forward to it! But will be nice to get it done. Good luck with your consultations and 2018 in general!

Lululimon yes I think you're right. Finland sounds gorgeous, I have 2 Moomins calendars in my house! All the best at Zita West!

Ive just realised I haven't got anything much to add for the AFM bit, haha!   I should probably wait to update til I have something worth talking about, still in a sort of limbo, but looking forward to starting a new year soon (again!)


----------



## Tootles

CEce40 - that is the most sensible and heartwarming post. Your perspective on this is spot on. I can't help but feel angry and disappointed for you. What can I say? I like you a lot chick and I wanted us to be bump *****es. I wanted us to moan and complain about sore tits and share vomitting stories.  But like you say, what good will crying and sulking do for the next month? It won't change anything.  Pulling positives out of this, like the strength of your relationship with your DH, is actually a wonderful thing and should not be underestimated. I'm sure you'll have your moments, and there is no shame in a snotty sleeve and some grotty tissue, or in buying a bulk load of Baileys (or Thunderbirds / Diamind White / Babycham - now you've come clean about being northern). And one more positive, you've made a pal out of me (I hope that's a positive!!) and I'm already looking forwards to nattering whenever you're around and when you go for it again. Quick simply, you rock xx

Pauli - roll on Jan. The DE thing is definately something I'd really like to get my head around. Good for you in sticking with OE for now. You've got to do what feels right for you. 

Lulu - tax returns...euwww. They do my head in so much that I've paid a nice little accountant called Simon to do mine! Good luck with yours. You're a stronger lass then me if you can get through 10 minutes of trying to work out where you're name even goes without throwing a huge wobbly!  Glad to hear that Finland was good. Are Moomins those funny / weird puppet characters from childhood or have I got the complete wrong end of the stick?! 

Strawberry - limbo is when the best nattering happens so post away. The MC arena feels like one of the most neglected areas of fertility to me. After only two MCs for me, I already feel angry that more research isn't being done.  It's the 'not knowing' parts that are so hard to just accept and deal with. So you are also a Moomin lady?! I am clearly missing a trick here!

AFM - nothing to report. Had a blood test this morning but results not in until Fri. Haven't done a pregnancy test again. Have decided to enjoy the bubble for now because I know just how lucky I am to even get to this stage. Night night ladies xx


----------



## Syd72

Ladies, is it ok if I join you?  I'll have a proper read through a bit later, I've just caught up on the the last few posts now. Cece, so sorry for your bfn.

My details are pretty much all in my signature.  We should have been doing a donor egg round at Serum in October but had a surprise natural pregnancy in August, miscarried October.  Went out for another hysto last weekend and hoping to cycle in January.

Thank you.


----------



## CEce40

Thanks for the kind thoughts everyone. I only found this site recently, the previous cycles we were on our own. It definitely makes a difference that there are others who know what you're going through, can share a laugh at our stupid misfortune and provide a bit of hope that there's light at the end of the tunnel. 

Strawberry Sundae, you've definitely been through the wringer. You're my new inspiration to keep going, I'll be following your story with interest, lets hope 2018 brings some answers and, finally, a solution.

Syd72 - welcome and thanks. congrats on the surprise, massive commiserations for how it played out. Did that change your thoughts on DE, are you tempted to try OE again now?

Tootles, bless you, very sweet comments. But oooooo, I'm telling, I feel like I've pushed you over the sweary edge! did you notice that my previous post got censored, ooops. Then TigerSmiles was censored for repeating my comment, double ooops. I feel like I'm the ringleader of the 'blue' gang. Sorry if I offend anyone, I'll try to tone it down but sometimes only a **** or a ****** or a ******* will do!

Its definitely a positive of this brutal journey that we're pal's tootles. But just to be clear, if we ever meet in real life, can we agree the greeting protocol first? As a fellow northerner I'm preying you're in my world - a hug if I really like you, but what's all this air kissy, presenting cheeks to people, 1/2/3 kisses? what's going on? someone I'd employed turned up for work on her first day and gave me a hug, I wanted to tell her to turn around and walk straight back out the door again! I have boundaries, respect my personal space, people, please. We shall maintain a respectful distance until my 5th vodka when I'll throw my arms around your neck and serenade you with a dramatic 80s ballard!

Now ladies, hold onto your hats, can I instigate a bit of vulgar vulva chat?? This may offend, you have been warned......... During my 2ww I obviously went a bit mental, like everyone. Google has a lot to answer for. I found something (how gullible am I?) that said that one of the earliest signs of pregnancy is that your vulva turns from pink to purple with the influx of blood. Well now, in a feminist world I know we all should be whipping our compacts out every 5 minutes and having a good old inspection, "be proud of your body, be open about your sexuality", blah, blah. Now I'm certainly no prude, I'm quite happy as a sexual being, but really, I'm a busy lady, who's got time to keep a vag diary. I have no idea what's going on down there, it's lucky if it gets a bit of a prune every couple of weeks. So anyway, not to be deterred, I grabbed a mirror and had a peek. Low and behold, purple tipped vulva. Woohoo. Couple of days later, total purple vulva. It looked like DH had given me a love bite during the night (not an unpleasant thought, but if there's going to be some downstairs action I at least want to be awake for it!). Conclusive proof that I was definitely pregnant......until a few days later, when I wasn't! So, let me be a lesson, DO NOT GOOGLE. Do get familiar with your vulva, it's actually quite amazing, who knew?! but maybe if you're going to symptom spot like a demon, you should really work out what the colour/texture/look/feel of your body parts are BEFORE you start looking for changes. Comparison is everything. I hang my donut head in shame.Here endeth the sermon!

I'm heading on my Christmas travels today, Oxford, York then Hull. I'll be away till after Christmas so expect radio silence from me. I'll read all your posts on my phone, but for some reason I can't reply. Have a great Christmas everyone, looking forward to starting the new year and continuing this frustrating journey together. xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Ah CeCe, I am sorry it didn't work out.but girl, you have what my American counsellor calls "some bad-ass positive mental attitude" going on! Believe it will happen- amazing things can and will result!! And yea just knock back the Bailey's!
I've never vulva checked before in the 2ww but you had me laughing 😁 Have a lovely lovely Xmas break.

Strawberry/CeCe- Moomin musuem was so amazing- interactive displays and so many miniature scenes that Tove and her partner made.  The snow in Tampere made it all perfect! 
Tootles- I'm not sure about puppets but they look like white hippos. There was a series on back when we were all about 4-5. I've loved them ever since 😚

Hi Syd72- welcome to the thread and join the start of drug craziness in Jan.

Lulu x


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

CeCe - so sorry for your BFN but have so much admiration for your positive attitude   I didn't realise you'd been censored lol, thought it was an emoji you'd used  

Lulu - I'm doing a long proticol with Suprecur (Buserlin) 0.5 ml injections for down reg, then Menopur for stims, Ovitrelle for trigger injection followed by Cyclogest 400mg pessaries twice a day from 2 days after EC (this doesn't mean much to me just reading it off my letter from Nurture lol)

Tootles - Was yours a similar protocol? 

On another note - I've just had my letter with the consents forms to sign and protocol as above and it says to avoid DTD for the cycle during treatment so I am now panicking as the nurse didn't say anything about this when I called on day 1 and now it's day 10 so too late for that instruction! Not that it's likely that I'd get pregnant this cycle after 18 months of trying but still a bit worried just in case. - Any advise would be appreciated.

Love to all xx


----------



## Syd72

I think has just become my favourite thread!  Thanks for the welcome ladies.

Cece I'm totally with you on the whole kissing thing.  If I like you, I'll hug you, if I really like you I'll hug you and kiss you, once, on the cheek!  If I've just met you I don't want to hug or kiss you!  (Unless meeting Hugh Jackman for the first time, then I'd make an exception...)

Loving the vulva chat, I've never checked colour but have been known to check cervix position (which I can never work out) and feel (which does seem to change when I'm pregnant).  

No, my recent pregnancy hasn't changed my mind about DE, if anything it's convinced me.  I'm almost 46, I've had 4 natural pregnancies in the last 16 months (sort of, including the natural iui) and lost them all, basically I think my eggs are crap.  Even though 2 of them were chemicals I don't think I have implantation issues, two of them held on til over 8 weeks even though they both stopped developing around 5 weeks. OH doesn't have any sperm issues, even had the dna fragmentation test.  I just want a healthy pregnancy and baby and DE is my best shot at that, I don't have strong feelings at all about passing on my own dna.  I'm just excited and impatient to get going now.

Lulu, I've started the steroids already, have to do the down reg injection on Boxing Day (happy Christmas to me), then just waiting for AF to start.  I love the sound of you trip to Finland.

Butterfly, I wouldn't worry too much.  Do you know when you normally ovulate?  I've seen some people told not to DTD and others don't get told that, I think you'll be ok.  Sorry, that's probably not massively helpful.

Tootles, hope all goes well with your blood test results today.

Strawberry, where are you having your hysto?  Apologies if you've said it elsewhere or if it's in your signature, I can't see signatures in "reply" mode.
Edit: just seen it's at Serum   Is that your first time?

Happy Christmas to you all, I hope everyone has a relaxing break.


----------



## Tootles

Evening Ladies

How's tricks?

Welcome Syd72.  Sorry to read of your MCs. I have a quality issue too, either age related or from having too much of a good time in my youth!  Not long to go until Jan is here. Good luck!

How on earth to do you check your cervix?!  Did they teach you that at school?  I went to quite a strict catholic school and our sexual education lessons were VERY limited!  With regards to the va-va-vulva approach.... firstly I had to google what a vulva is!  I know it's down there somewhere, but I wasn't sure which bit! Turns out it's the whole collection of bits!!  Now I don't know about colour, and I'm not about to get my Farrow and Ball chart out just yet, but..... I definately think there is something in this theory. I get a, ahem, sort of fun-time-flutter down there. Not a full on When Harry Met Sally affair, but a definite 'how are youuuu doing' tickle (at last, a perk!!).  That's got to be down to increased blood flow, surely?

Hi Butterfly - your protocol is identical to mine! I think Nurture likes to stick to its own tried and tested methods. How much Menopur will you be on?  What date do you start down reg'ing? I wouldn't worry too much about DTD but maybe ask Nurture just in case. Lucky you for getting some!! I think I've forgotten what to do it's been so long.  One consolation is that the drugs made me have some VERY saucy dreams!  I hope you get the same side effect!

Lulu - how did you get on with the tax return?  Hope you haven't hit the bottle!  I've googled Moomins - yes, I do remember them! I seem to remember they were on telly a lot when the teachers went on strike! Happy days!

CEce40 - I hope that you're having a lovely time on your Christmas travels. Did you take any Werthers? Do not fear, my Midlands roots are firmly in the none-air-kissy camp until booze or close friendship is established. It's the noise thing I can't do properly. What's with all that 'hmmmm mwoah, hmmmmm mwoah' malarkey?  I'll stick to 'Hello me-duck' thank you very much.  I'm putting a request in now for T'Pau's China in Your Hand please, followed by some Aerosmith, I Don't Wanna Miss a Thing for pudding.  Then you can just flipping pucker up sweetheart!

AFM - well I'm still up the duff and delighted about it.  Had a blood test result of 235 today.  I'm not altogether sure of what that means, but I do know that it's meant to double in the next few days. Fingers crossed but I'm still well aware of the end result being a long long way off yet.


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Tootles - The dosage of Menopur says 450 IU s.c (6 amps) daily, but I'm not sure what that means! We have our consents appointment on the 29th so hopefully will get some more of an idea then. My drugs arrive on the 28th then I start down regging on New Year's Day and have a scan booked for the 17th Jan to see how it's going. I'm glad my protocol is the same as yours, I'm going to take that as a good sign! 

I meant to say before that yes we met Mr Raine-Fenning at the open evening and really liked him (maybe not quite as much as you did lol). I loved how passionate he was about what he does, really inspiring, although our consultant is Mr Hopkisson who also seems nice.

I'm trying not to worry about DTD It's not likely we'd get pregnant naturally after all. After 18 months of TTC it's hard to get out of the habit   I'll let you know if I get the dreams, it's the first time I'd read anything positive about the drugs  

Sending love to everyone


----------



## StrawberrySundae

Hi everyone  

Butterfly good luck with your cycle, hope it doesn't interfere with your Xmas plans  

Tootles glad you're still up the duff!! Great to be up the duff at Christmas   And long may it continue! Good luck with your next bloods.

Syd hello I'm having my hysto at Serum same as you have - would love to know any details/info! I've been feeling scared about it as I once had a bad reaction to sedation during egg collection, so hopefully this will go ok. How did you feel afterwards? Am taking a week off work for it in Jan. I did Serum's 2 cycle package, it resulted in a drawn out twin miscarriage the start of this year and a cp or bfn in about June. So have moved into DE but so far that was a bfn. Good luck with your next cycle, hope the hysto propels us forward! 

CEce hope you're feeling ok & enjoying your Christmas travels! Thanks for the vulva info, will definitely have to investigate next time!   These tips are all helpful, so the more the merrier! Glad if I can help inspire you, but for me I'm a bit fed up of having had so much **** that it makes other people feel better, but I suppose I should be more generous   Anyway you've got a great attitude and that will help I think.

Lulu and anyone I've missed I hope you all have a fun time tomorrow and get lots of nice presents!


----------



## Syd72

Strawberry you’ll be fine. I’ve done it twice this year, was there on my own both times. When you have your pre-tests the day before they’ll ask if any problems previously with general anaesthetic, you should mention your previous bad reaction then. I was fine with the anaesthetic, I was cramping both times I came round and asked for additional pain relief which worked very quickly, this doesn’t seem to have happened to anyone else. Within an hour you’re back on the ward and feeling completely normal. This time I had my procedure around 7.45am, in recovery by 8.30am and back at Serum by midday. It’s fascinating watching the dvd 

Merry Christmas ladies, lots of healthy baby-filled wishes for us all in 2018 x


----------



## Tootles

Hello Campers

I hope there were lots of lovely Christmas' going on.

Well, looks like I'm out of the game. The old HCG isn't rising and I've gone from a strong line to it barely being there. Bummer. I'm disappointed but not really upset. Would much rather this ended sooner as the last MC was much further along and that was tough.  Not really sure what happens next. I'll call the clinic today.  

I reckon I've got two goes left in me. Not the new year I was hoping for, but it could be so much worse so counting my blessings.  

Good luck to all of you ladies.  2018 has got to be a better year than 2017!!

Lots of love xx


----------



## pauli

Hi Tootles, so sorry to read your update. That must have been heart-breaking especially at Xmas time. No words can make you feel better. Have you managed to speak to the clinic today? Have they suggested to do a blood test or a scan? Is there not a little chance it still could be a viable pregnancy? Sometimes the test stick could be faulty and HCG could be slow rising... 

Roll on 2018! Let's hope the new year will bring us all what we most desire xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Hello all
Tootles- sad to read your post. Its crap when that HCG doesn't rise after the excitement of bfp. I hope it maybe just a blip but sending you hugs-you know we are thinking of you xx

Butterfly good luck for your appointment on Friday x
Strawberry and Syd hope you got some nice pressies X I'm off to get mine tomorrow- hubby and I were a bit apathetic beforehand and couldn't decide.

Everyone else hope you have all pigged out and had at least a tipple or two.

Let's all believe 2018 is our year! Xx


----------



## Syd72

So sorry Tootles x


----------



## StrawberrySundae

Hi everyone, not long to go until the start of a fresh new year  

Tootles I'm really sorry, what an absolute bummer   are we allowed to say that?! Oh yes, you did as well!   I've experienced a bfp turning into a bfn, it's so disappointing. At least you're staying positive and I'm glad you've got at least another 2 goes in you - hopefully you'll not need that many  

Syd thanks ever so much for the positive vibes about Serum's hysto   I think my schedule will be similar, back to the clinic by lunchtime I hope. Not sure if mentioning a bad reaction in the past is a good idea in case they refuse to go ahead?   Yes the DVD almost sounds fun!  

Butterfly good luck tomorrow at your appt - getting exciting! 

CEce hope you've had a great Xmas!  

Pauli and Lulu yes let's hope & believe 2018 is a good year!  

I've still got a while to go, hanging around for 2 or 3 months, but hopefully will have a good plan or just dive in again once we can afford it!  

Have a great end of year/New Year everyone xx


----------



## Tootles

Thanks ever so much for the well wishes.  It's been a rocky few days. Have started to bleed this morning which I'm happy about as it puts a full stop on this cycle.  Nothing worse than dragging it out. 

Can I let off some steam please??!  I'm afraid I got a tad 'upset' with my clinic.  Just feel rather abandoned by them and it took me getting a bit stroppy to get a call back from the doctor.  It's not that I want a cuddle and a box of chocolates, just a bit of reassurance and advice at such an anxious time. The nurses are ok, but telling me that 'nothing is wrong' when three different brands of pregnancy test suggest otherwise, and blood test results aren't as they should be, just comes across as being really patronising, dismissive and not at all helpful. 

I get that it's a waiting game, but when things start to go tits-up between the positive result and the scan, you want to feel supported in a medical capacity and that just didn't happen. 

The problem I have is that my clinic has really good statistics, but it's just lacking in the communication department.  At £7k a pop, it's not the cheapest, although I know it's also not the most expensive too.  I'm now trying to decide whether or not to stick with them or move.  In the mean time, I'm going to make my own enquirers into MC. I'm three down now and would like to know if it's just my age or if something else is going on. 

Hope you don't mind me still knocking about on here. I'm keen to hear how everyone gets on.  Roll on 2018 and the end of 2017.


----------



## pauli

Hi Tootles, sorry to hear that you had a few rocky days with clinic not being very helpful. I cannot offer any advice on MC, maybe other ladies here or Dr Google can offer some useful info, what to investigate etc.  

It is tough to choose a clinic. After the local NHS clinic, we signed up with a clinic in London which reported the highest success rates in the country. The bill was equally high (possibly the ‘highest’ in the country too ;-) unfortunately with the same BFN outcome. In my opinion paying a premium for IVF does not guarantee a better outcome. 

Doctors offer different ‘possible’ explanations but very often they have no clue why so many IVF cycles fail. I feel as it is up to you to choose what you believe. ‘Under the influence’ of our Dr in the USA, my DH is a strong believer of PGS. Only if the embryo is chromosomally normal, it can lead to a viable pregnancy. I am still on the fence about this, but have recently come across more studies and information in support of this.

If you have a good ‘seed’ but things for tits-up, then the reason is in the ‘soil’. In principle I believe this to me true but unfortunately I find this advice more suitable for younger ladies who have time at their side.    

The only advice I can offer is to look at selecting the clinic from a practical & ‘logistical’ perspective (if the money is not a factor). Local clinic means convenience as no extra travel for the appointments, scans, blood tests, egg collection … If clinic is in a different city (UK or abroad), how easy it is to arrange all of the above and fit the travel alongside a full-time job? Not an easy decision, good luck!! Xx 

Butterfly, how was your appointment today? 

Lulu, hope you enjoyed the day shopping! What did you choose for your Xmas present or was it a surprise?  

Strawberry, hope the hysto in Jan will go fine. I would tell them about your reaction to the sedation as there are different drugs and the clinic should be able to offer an alternative to the drugs that caused the reaction previous time.    

Cece, hope you enjoyed your time up North, we were also spending some time there with my DH family. Did you avoid snow on your travels? 

Syd, all the best with your DE cycle in a new year! 

Ladies, enjoy the last few days of 2017 and New Year’s Eve (before the new year’s resolutions kick in)! Xxx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Tootles - so sorry to read your news, I totally get what you mean about the feeling of relief when AF finally arrives and you know where you stand. I'm glad to read that you have more cycles in you, the more I read on here from you brave ladies, the more I know that IVF really isn't for the faint hearted! - Oh and don't you dare go anywhere Lady, this was your thread to start with!   

I'm sorry to hear that Nurture haven't been very supportive either, it's always been my experience that there is way too much of the "well it happens" attitude in doctors when it comes to miscarriage and even stillbirth. Frankly I think it sucks and I'm sure much more could be done if we knew more about why pregnancies go wrong. The NHS don't even want to see you until just before the 12 week scan and there's zero support if you don't make it that far. Sorry to rant but it touched a nerve  

AFM - Thanks for the good wishes for the consents appointment today, it went well I think. DH now knows how to do the injections (I'm chicken so am going to make him do it, poor soul lol) so ready for down regging on Monday - Happy New Year to me lol

Here's hoping for a lucky 2018 for all of us  

Love to all xx


----------



## CEce40

Merry Christmas everyone, hope you all had a great day and got spoilt rotten. 

Oh Tootles, what can I say, I'm so gutted for you. Such a cruel business this IVF lark. I feel more angry for you than I was for me. That's great if you feel like you've got two more rounds in you, more chances to switch up the protocol a bit and strike it lucky. Hope you suitably tapped up the commiseration Thunderbirds. Diamond White was a bit of a blast from the past. Do you remember mixing it with Castaway to form the classy Blastaway? 90s decadence. Keep the faith that we'll be bump *****es in 2018.

Syd72 - sorry, what? you monitor the position and feel of your cervix - are you a gymnast?? I can only imagine I'd need one leg in the sink and possibly an emergency call to the fire brigade to join in on that malarcky. You have serious talents, lady. I do recall many years ago getting my coil fitted by a nurse who remarked that I had a beautiful cervix - I've lived off that anecdote for years! I fully understand your impatience to get on with things. I think we'll be going down the donor route now, for a lot of the reasons you mentioned. How did you choose your clinic/country?

Butterfly - Good luck for Monday. You're a braver woman than me, I'm not sure I'd let DH come after me with a pointy needle, he'd take far too much pleasure in that initial jab for my liking!

StrawberrySundae - Are you at Serum as well as Syd72? how did you choose them? I'm interested if the country plays a role in DE decisions.

Pauli - I didn't manage to avoid the snow, unfortunately. It took me 7 hours to do a 4 hour journey on Wednesday. There's only so many times you can listen to 80s dance party before the traffic depression kicks in. 

Hope you all have a fab new year. 2017 seems to have been pants for all of us but I've never met a bunch of braver women with so much chutzpah we'd give even He Man a run for his money. 2018 is our year and by the power of grayskull we'll smash this infertility ****storm! (possibly another censor coming my way!!)


----------



## Syd72

Ha ha, I have long arms...  Just to be clear, I'm not wandering around with my hand shoved up there all the time, just used to check sometimes when we were trying naturally...  

I uhm'd and ah'd for a long time about choosing a clinic as initially I wanted donor id release, I wanted the baby to be able to track the egg donor if they wanted to.  However, waiting times seem to be generally longer in the UK.  Also I'd read so much about what a great clinic Serum is and this particularly seems to be the case regarding donor treatment.  Under the "Greece" section have a look at Agates file, it's one of the pinned documents.  She talks about how much care Penny (the clinic director) takes when choosing a donor and how good she is at matching people.  In the end I decided I wanted the best chance of a great match and healthy baby, that was the most important thing for me.  My partner doesn't want to go the id release route so he was happy to go with Greece.  There look to be another couple of great clinics in Greece.

There seem to be some great clinics in Spain too but most of them seem to want to do a dummy cycle before the real one and as we live in Hong Kong that would have been tricky.

Ziln in the Czech Republic also gets some great reviews on here.

Having said all of that, I'm feeling a bit nervous right now.  On the latest Serum thread it's just been one bfn after another, I haven't seen a bfp on there for the past couple of months and it's the same on the Serum ******** page.  I feel stupid even saying this, I'm not a superstitious person at all but I seem to have convinced myself that there's a run of bad luck there at the moment.

Cece your journey sounds awful although I have to disagree on the 80s dance party, you can never have too much 80s music...

Butterfly good luck with the injections, there's no way in a million years my OH would do them!

Thanks Pauli,  When in January is your appointment?

Tootles, completely understand where you're coming from.  The after care is so important, whatever the result.  Surely after 3 losses they will investigate?

Strawberry, I would mention it, then they can adjust for it, I'm sure it wouldn't stop them going ahead.  When I was there a couple of weeks ago I mentioned that I had a blood clot on my lung 5 years ago, they just did a couple of extra checks.

Thanks Lulu, hope you had fun with your delayed Christmas present shopping.

The one good thing about cycling in January is I don't have the usual post-Christmas blues.  I love Christmas so much I normally feel really fed up by 27 December, plus dread going back to work after new year, we always close down between Christmas and New Year.  At the moment I just feel really excited about getting going.

Happy New Year all x


----------



## LuluLimon

Well my present ended up being a norovirus-! Both DH and I succumbed with a fight for the bathroom. And then my period, soooo attractive. Typical! But overall I guess it means that the excess of Xmas was neutralised!
I swear this game of dice is all about numbers and luck. Ditto sentiments on the treatment you get when sth goes wrong before 12w. 
I have never forgot the sh#t doctor who told me at my 11w scan on 1st MC "oh well there's nothing there now, you'll just have to go home and wait". Then every appt for counselling in the pregnancy ward- tactful! So many ppl don't have a clue about our battles.
A team of She-Ras indeed! Our combined energy and determination could solve many a global problem 😎

Sorry no personals (I'm only just feeling lucid) other than sending big 2018 baby vibes to all you lovely ladies! 😘


----------



## Glitterbabe2017

Hi lovely ladies

I am 3 weeks short of my 40th and starting my first cycle of IVF.  Started the injections - Suprecur and Menopur a few days ago, the injections has left me tired and sometimes feeling a bit nausea although never actually being sick.  And now I have a cold, hope it does not affect my chances as I only have 1 cycle of ivf on the NHS.  Not sure how to fund it if this fails, the chances of success I was told for me is 25% which is relatively low so not expecting too much.


----------



## CEce40

Happy new year everyone

Welcome Glitterbabe2017, good luck with your cycle. I wouldn't worry about your cold, dont think it will affect things, just take it easy and use it as an excuse to put your feet up. 

Syd, thanks for the info on the DE clinics. The run of BFNs doesn't sound good when you're in the run up to a cycle, but fingers crossed you'll be the one to break it. The luck needs to change at some point.

Lululimon, sorry you're ill. At least you shared it with your husband, v romantic! Jealous that you've redistributed the christmas indulgence, I've eaten everything I can get my hands on!

Well ladies, I had a positivity bypass yesterday. Total breakdown. I don't cry often, but when I do, oh man, I cry ugly! we're talking snot bubbles, warthog snorts, dog panting, face gurning, you get the picture. So what brought on this outpouring of negativity? jumping into bed for a little spot of afternoon delights, obviously!!

This year has been brutal. I try to take the positives out of everything as no one wants to be unhappy all the time, right? but a full year of pumping hormones in and out of my body has left its mark - uncontrollable outpourings of emotion at ridiculous times. I hated 2017 and I can't take another one. I'm sick of constant headaches, constant nausea, night sweats, weight gain, bloating, mood swings etc etc I dont know what 'normal' is anymore. It feels like the drugs have never really left my system, I've just been topping them up every time. Add in the emotional rollercoaster, the financial outlay, the 'life in limbo' feeling, blah blah, I feel like my body has finally just said "we're done". I don't even feel sexy anymore. We've gone from fun sex to baby making sex to no sex (painful stim time or the joys of the messy pessaries). I really am a mess. If I was 5 years younger I'd be telling myself to stop, take a year off, refresh, but no such luck when your facing down the barrel of the age gun. I was all ready to give up completely, grab my redundancy with both hands and run off to travel the world. 

So, after a good crying/snotting session into my naked husband's chest (I mentioned we'd jumped into bed) with a glorious and long missed erection disintegrating before my eyes (the dodgy hormones really pick their moments!), I pulled myself together and DH dragged me away from the ledge. We had a lovely meal, toasted the end of a bad year and vowed not to let 2018 go the same way. I was already thinking that DE were the way forward, but my NYE meltdown has confirmed it. I know its the end, I need to stop. I'm ready to move on.

Infertility is such an invisible thing. I think that's what makes it harder. If we can't even rely on medical professionals getting it right then how can we expect anyone who's had no experience to understand what it's like. Don't get me wrong, everyone has their struggles, this is no more or less of a battle than other people face. It's just not recognised as such, which I think is the hard bit.

I hope everyone had a great NYE; one with less snot and more Funtime Frankie. I'll hang around on this thread as well as Tootles, if that's alright with everyone. You're a cracking bunch of chicks and, to be honest, any group who can combine discussions on Moomins, vulvas, teenage acne and air kissing is a group I want to be part of! Happy 2018 to everyone x


----------



## Kris76

Hello lovely ladies.
I'm new to the site and this thread. I've just been reading through the thread this morning. First day back at work but not particularly motivated today. 
Tootles, I'm so sorry to hear. My heart goes out to you. 
I'm so encouraged by all the strength shown by you all having been through so much. 
CEce40 I also had a massive ugly, snort bubbling cry over Christmas. Sometimes you just need to get these emotions out...or eat them, like I did over Christmas. 
I had my first cycle in December and was due to test on Christmas day. AF arrived on the 23rd, so that was that. I'll be going back to the Lister for a follow up. However, they have pretty much said it's down to old eggs. I'm taking comfort and positivity from so many women in their 40s still using their own eggs successful. 
Has anyone tried acupuncture? I am thinking of trying it out but not sure if I'm just wasting my time and money. Emma Cannon who is a fertility specialist charges £130 per 30 acupuncture session and £250 for a consultation. I can't help but think that the desperation we feel leads them to charge premium prices. Does anyone have any thoughts or recommendations for acupuncturists? 
Best of luck to you all. Here's to a successful 2018.


----------



## Tootles

Happy New Year Ladies

CEce40 - I know you're not big on the old hug front, but I just want to give you the largest squeeze right now.  It sounds like a mini breakdown / much needed release went on. I hope it was like being sick after a good night out, when you just feel so much better after it's all out. Pity about the timing like you say, but better in the arms of your hubby even if it was at the price of some afternoon hanky panky.  As much as I want to shout to you nooooo, come back, just one more go.... I know that the relief of making a decision on, what is without question, one of the hardest subjects you'll ever have to face, is brave beyond words and I have nothing but complete admiration for you. Your body and mind have clearly come together to tell your heart what to do, and if that's to stop then so be it. 

I've got to admit, the feeling of being drug free is amazing. Having a break from obsessing about injection times, numbers, scan dates, supplements, endless recipes for avocados and pineapple... it's a real relief.  However, if you have a change of heart, especially after the gloom of early Jan lifts, then I for one will be routing for you like a crazed One Direction fan. 

Hi Glitterbabe - welcome to the thread. Happy pre 40th birthday! Hope your cold has eased off.

Hello Kris76 - so sorry to hear you had to deal with that over Christmas. It's just beyond unfair. It does get a bit easier, even if it's just preparing yourself for another go and being measured in your expectations and emotions. I was a proper diva at home during round one. But round two was so matter of a fact, and didn't intrude nearly as much on our day to day lives. I'm thinking about acupuncture too. I've never been convinced by it before, but I'm ready to give it a go as some ladies really swear by it. A friend also said hypnotherapy can help too, but when she described it I just don't think I'd be able to keep a straight face. The therapist made her talk to her ovaries and find her "inner-momma" - yep, definately not for me! 

Lulu - hope that you're over the virus. Great timing! I think it's been doing the rounds. Hope you were stocked up on loo roll! Glad it's not just me that thinks that the care pre 12 weeks is pants.  It's been the one thing that has surprised me the most. Miscarriage just feels like a flippant term, and a signal for IVF clinics and some doctors to just close the door, and tell you to come back when you're either ready to spend a load more cash, or when you're "properly" pregnant.  Telling you to go home and wait is terrible!  It's not like a little cold or a sprained ankle! A bit like your norovirus, I lost complete control of everything this time. Heaving into the sink, trying not to miss the loo for the other end - horrendous pain.  It's awful. I'm flabbergasted that it's treated so dismissively. 

Syd - hows it going? Don't worry about the run of BFNs at Serum. It means that all of the negative cycles are done and dusted and so fingers crossed you will be the next BFP.  We are certainly overdue some good news! Hope it goes well for you. Get those 80s tunes on chick, and let Paul Young and Bucks Fizz serenade you to a BFP X

Afm, I'm channeling the gods of eternal youth to have a word with my eggs and tell them to recapture their fitter, healthier days. I will be experimenting with some grime music, updating my Nokia 3310 and applying copious amounts of glitter and diamonte stones to my whole face area whenever I go out.  Hand me the prit-stick and stand back kids. 

I've also got my GP to refer me to Professor Quenby who runs a recurrent miscarriage research centre in Coventry.  Hoping this might be a more positive route as Prof Quenby comes highly recommended and apparently is one of the few professionals that takes early miscarriage seriously.  

That said, I'll be nipping to WHSmith at lunch time to stock up on glitter, just in case.  Peace-out xx


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hey all,
Just popping on to say Happy New Year. I know this thread has been tumultuous to say the least with all our ups and downs. But it's a new year and we have to keep the faith that it will happen. I'm currently in my fertile period, so before we try the needle merry go round again my DH is getting a lot of you know what! 
Keep smiling and strong fab 40's


----------



## LuluLimon

Well it's 2018 and here's to some Bfps coming on this thread- I feel we are overdue some sticky dust this year!
Welcome Glitterbabe- hope the injections aren't too painful. You soon great used to the little bruises. And don't worry about statistics, somebody has to be the 25%- I always say there's no reason why not you! It's just luck and I know it can be done!!

Welcome Kris- sorry about your BFN just before xmas- sometimes timing really sucks. I do acupuncture, but that lady seems steep- I have heard of her. The London Acupuncture Clinic on Harley Street are £75/60 for sessions and they have a lot of experience with fertility. I'm seeing someone in Vauxhall but may do LAC cos it's near ZW clinic. It's generally a set of points that are used for pre-post transfer and the rest is for optimizing blood circulation and destressing. I like it as I am Little Miss Stressy. I made my DH do 1 session- he loathed it and called it a pile of pseudo scientific nonsense and made up cr££ (our in-laws are doctors). I would do it if it works for you and you get something of it... otherwise it's a lot of 💰.

CeCe- big hugs love. Nothing wrong with a watery messy moment. It happens to all of is- and there is only so many times you can be positive!! Go with your decision- your gut is a good judge. But yay stay on the thread- we need lots of crazy chat 😉X

Tootles- Quenby sounds a good plan. It was my next stop but think we are sorted on our immunes. I would add get your clotting tested as well as the basics like Thyroid- both mine had changed after the MC's and since our son. It's worth a shot and easy to sort.

Butterfly- hope your appointment went well x
Syd- let's hope for a rash of bfps starting this month!
Strawberry/Pauli & anyone else I've missed hope you had a nice end to 2017 x
AFM- first nurse appt at ZW tomorrow. I'm on day 4 of the pill so hopefully we'll get dates for the downregging- but should be around 27th or so. I redownloaded a visualisation cd for IVF cycles- I found it really useful last time so will do that to help me sleep better. 
I'm thinking of a good hobby to restart/start as I've taken on less work for the next 2 months. Any ideas? I'm trying to not overdo exercise... I should be getting rid of all our junk on eBay as we plan to move abroad in 18months but it always feels like hard work..I would paint the house as we have a graffiti artist in residence but everyone warns against paints/chemicals for IVF...

Right off to watch The Force Awakens- for some geeky time- we saw the new Star Wars on Boxing Day and it was awesome😀
Luluxx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Happy New Year Ladies 

Welcome Glitterbabe, how are the injections going? Did you start the Suprecur and Menopur at the same time? I started the Suprecur on Monday so only had 2 injections so far but don't start the Menopur until my clinic are happy that my cycle is suppressed so have a scan booked for the 17th then if all ok will start taking both from that evening. 25% sounds pretty good to me, its above average for our range range I think? My consultant gave us a 10-20% chance which I think is pretty poor but got to be worth a try and like Lulu said, someone has to be in that percentage  

Welcome Kris, so sorry about  the crappy timing of your BFN. I haven't tried acupuncture  but I know some ladies swear by it.

CeCe - DH isn't enjoying stabbing me with a pointy needle, I think it's hurting him more than it does me, which isn't very much so far thankfully! I'm wondering if the Menopur injections are worse as it looks to be a bigger needle? Big hugs for your breakdown sweetie (no air kisses though, I'm from the Midlands too  ). I too am partial to the occasional snot streaming swollen eyed blubbing session. I firmly believe that it does you good to let it all out. Although I annoy myself when I have to keep breaking off from the crying to blow my nose and gasp for air! No idea how some people can do lady like tears, it's snot all the way for real women I'm sure.

Lulu - Glad there's another geek on here, me and DH have been to see the Last Jedi twice so far, loved it. Good luck for your appointment tomorrow hope it goes well x

Syd72 - Totally agree about cycling in the New Year, it's given us something to really focus on and helped the after Christmas period to be less grey and depressing.

Tootles - I'm glad that you're starting to feel better as the meds leave your system. How long do you have to wait between cycles? I think we'd all love to give ourselves a break between cycles but the time pressure for us fabulous 40s is so cruel.

Sorry if I've missed anyone, love to all you brave ladies


----------



## Syd72

Happy New Year ladies.

Lulu you poor thing, I have an absolute fear of the norovirus!  Fortunately it doesn't seem to exist out here.  I have a phobia about vomit full stop, my OH was sick the other night and I spent most of the night awake terrified I was going to get it, turned out to be something he'd eaten.  I am aware this could pose a problem if I'm lucky enough to succeed and then get morning sickness but I'm just not thinking about that right now...  Do you mind me asking which visualisation you're using?  I used circle and bloom on my last ivf cycle but would like to try something different this time.  Whereabouts are you moving to when you move abroad?

Hi Glitter, best of luck!

Cece, so sorry you had a meltdown, and for the timing!  Knowing my next cycle is going to be donor does make me feel much more relaxed - not completely relaxed obviously - but definitely more positive.  Plus much less of the crappy medication.

Hi Kris.  I was having acupuncture for a year before I left the UK with a fantastic woman who has an amazing track record helping women to get pregnant.  She's now moved to Devon so if you're in that area let me know!  She picked up on a couple of things with me that have since been confirmed with a hysto and I did have a few natural pregnancies aged 44+.  I do think it's worth it but you need to find the right therapist.  The one you've mentioned sounds incredibly expensive!

Thanks Tootles, I was a bit of a Paul Young fan   I've heard great things about Professor Q so got everything crossed for you!  You can never have too much glitter... 

Thanks Butterfly, hope the injections continue to go well.  I haven't been to see the Last Jedi yet, need to get a move on!

No news from me really, just waiting for AF to start which should be Thursday or Friday.  I normally get 3-4 days spotting which hasn't started yet although looking back at my diary I didn't get much spotting after my last hysto.  Really hoping it comes on time, I've already got flights booked, coming from so far away it's not an option to wait until the last minute, just hoping I don't have to change them.

Hello to anyone I've missed.


----------



## CEce40

Thanks for the snot support, ladies, much appreciated. I'm feeling a lot better after my little breakdown. 

Tootles - Nice idea to channel your youth, but I think the diamontes go on your vag these days! And talking of pubis decoration (which, strictly speaking, noone was, but I'm going to anyway!) way back when the vegazzle was merely a glitter twinkle on a TOWIE girls face, I decided to get adventurous for a certain ex to celebrate our first valentines day by dying my curly bush red and shaving into a heart shape..... oh yeah, there's no end to my creativity! I'm not exactly sure why I thought pubes resembling Ronald MacDonald would be sexy, but hey, you've got to try these things. So there you go, if you fancy channelling my misspent youth then I'll happily pass on the heart muff tip. Be careful with the grow back, though, dark roots, red tips is a strange look downunder! 

The referral to Proff Q sounds promising. Has he got a long waiting list? At a previous appointment with my specialist we were discussing DEs and I asked about the chances of MC and whether I'd need to loose weight etc. She said that 9 out of 10 MCs are due to egg/embryo quality and that the body is just a vessel. I guess this just goes to show the lack of knowledge in the area, so much is still so unknown in the IVF world. Hope it helps to give you some answers.

Hi Tiger Smiles, in the absence of any plans or timeline for what we're going to do next then it's back to good old fashioned 'natural' baby making for us too. I'm not even sure that I ovulate anymore, but what the hell, drug free sex feels great!

Lululimon - hobby suggestions, well, obvs, trapeze, glass blowing or a recreation of Ghost with the pottery wheel. I actually had a course of trapeze lessons in my single days (it's quite a chat up line!). I imagined grace, beauty, pointy toes, billowing hair; which was a tad different to reality as I hurled myself off the platform having completely miss judged my ability to hold my own body weight. Cue screech, plummet through the air and massive schoolboy knees as I skid into, across and off the end of the crashmat! I'm sure you'll be far better. Oh and The Last Jedi, awesome? ahem, lets not get into a fight about this, it was okay. Some proper Star Wars bits, but far too Disney for my liking.

Butterfly1976 - Dont worry about the Menopur needle. Yes it's bigger, but by that point you'll be a dab hand at the old stab and push, so it'll be a breeze. One tip, don't push the liquid in too fast, I find that can sting a bit.

Kris76 - I did a few sessions of acupuncture with this cycle. I just hit the high street and found the closest one to my house, so not terribly well researched. According to my acupuncturist you're meant to do it for about 3 months for fertility. They like to do it around your cycle or something. I had sessions once a week for a month, I liked it. It helped my stress and released some of the tension I tend to have in my shoulders and neck. My sessions were only £45 for an hour.

Syd76 - hope you get your AF on time. Are you heading to Greece for the full cycle? how long will you be there for? I'm going to have to learn all this if we head down the DE route. Sounds like a great excuse for a holiday, maybe I'll start researching clinics in Bali!


----------



## StrawberrySundae

Hi everyone, happy 2018  

CEce glad you sound more cheerful following your meltdown - after so many cycles in 1 yr I think it's understandable. I've felt v emotional recently & blaming it on yesterday's full moon! Hope this year is much more relaxed for you & your hormones feel more themselves! 

Tootles I've spoken to Prof Quenby, she's really nice and a lot more understanding than some male consultants I've come across. I saw Prof Brosens there (he was nice too) who thought pgs was a waste of time, but I've ended up doing it anyway!   

Syd good luck at Serum! I'll be there next week for my hysto. I'm really dreading it (plus the antibiotics etc afterwards) and now feel extra stressed as my DH said he thought I don't really need it & it's just delaying our  next cycle/s by at least 6 mths cos of the cost. I think I'm going to do it tho as I haven't so far and at least I've ticked it off!

Butterfly hope all's going well & Glitterbabe - 10-25% sounds quite good to me! 

Lulu hope you're  feeling better! I saw The Last Jedi before Xmas too, I really enjoyed it & felt a bit emotional about some of Carrie Fisher's lines, knowing it was her last film   I like the whole idea of Jedi's!

Kris hi and sorry about your recent cycle   I used acupuncture for my 1st ivf - well I had 1 session but it hurt my back! The woman doing it said people sometimes use that as an excuse when ivf doesn't work! Mine did but I had a mmc at 12 wks. If it's relaxing I'm sure that helps, but I don't think I'll be using it again. I do like the ivf relaxation cds you can get, planning on trying them again this year as I didn't bother last year!

TigerSmiles and anyone else wishing you lots of luck & happiness for a good year ahead!


----------



## pauli

Evening ladies, 
Good to see the spirits are up at the start of the new year! 

Strawberry - I had hysto twice (under sedation) and was completely fine afterwards. I remember the first time I was so nervous (I had a laparoscopy as well at the time and it was my first ever GA), afterwards I thought I was just pathetic. You had sedation for egg collections a number of times, it will feel the same. All I heard about Serum is very good care for their patients, it sounds like the place to have hysto (if we need one ;-). Good luck!!! Are you afraid that you will have a reaction to antibiotics?

Really intrigued by the comment about PGS by Prof Brosens. Did he explain why? Everyone, please share your experiences with PGS if you had it or why not. My sister in her only IVF had 2 blasts PGS tested, one of them was normal and 9 months later a healthy baby. She was 41 -42 at the time. It seems so simple. 

Kris, so sorry about your BFN. As for acupuncture, I had tried different therapists over the last 2 years. Locally and in London (when cycling there). I even had a consultation with Emma Cannon, but was disappointed. I came across her books and thought the consultation would be more about finding what "fertility type" I was (like she write in her book) and getting  specific advice tailored for my "type". It ended up just a general chat and then acupuncture session.  

I think acupuncture can be beneficial to restore your cycle if you are having irregular periods. My friend came off the pill and for 5-6 months she had no bleed. After 3 or 4 acupuncture sessions her cycle has returned. It also helps with the blood flow to ovaries and uterus (beneficial during stims and around ET). My advice would be to try it and see if you find it relaxing and actually enjoy the sessions.              

Syd, have you thought about acupuncture to bring your period on? It worked for me when I was doing a cycle abroad and had everything booked, just needed my period to come on. Hope the timing will still work out for you. Are you doing the fresh transfer or FET? Are you putting one emby back or 2?

Started looking into DE recently as we got unexpected Christmas gift from the clinic where we did last 2 cycles - we got 5 donor eggs free of charge. The only costs would be the drugs (which is not a lot for ET) and travel & stay abroad. However, the eggs are frozen, apparently not as good as "fresh". So the process is to thaw the eggs, fertilize with the sperm and wait for 5 days if we have any blasts to transfer. They also sent us 6-7 page file with the information on donor + images, everything including the hair and eye color of all the grandparents ;-)        

Well, gift accepted and agreed to come for treatment in May. I did not tell them we are planning another OE cycle with another clinic! So my original plan A is still on - appointment at a new clinic on 8 Jan and if all is well, I will ask them to let me cycle in Feb. If plan A fails, we are moving to plan B in May. DH not completely happy, he  thinks we should go straight for plan B but goes along as understand my need to give it one more try with OE! 

Cece - I have not come across any good IVF clinic in Bali so far ;-)    

Tootles - hope you get some answers from Prof Q. When is your appointment?    

Welcome Glitterbabe, as others said, do not pay too much attention to statistics. Actually me thinks that 25% is rather good! 

Butterfly - Menopur is fine, do not worry, I had it on all 4 cycles, never noticed difference in needles. The worst ever injections are progesterone after ET. They go into the bum (glute muscle to be precise). I know ladies who can do them themselves (maybe gymnasts?), I had to ask DH to do those for me. I only took them during 2ww (until BFN) but my bum was hurting for weeks... imagine taking those for 12 weeks following BFP!          

Lulu - hope the appointment today went well. As for the hobby, where do you find time having a little one around? ;-) 

TigerSmiles - fingers crossed for natural BFP! 

Hope everyone is well 
xx


----------



## Syd72

Cece, for donor treatment you only have to fly out for transfer, so literally for one day.  OH left his sample there a few months ago so he doesn't need to go at all, if he hadn't done that he would need to be there for the donors egg collection day.  As I understand it the only issue is you find out very late in the day when you have to go out for transfer as it depends on exactly when egg collection is and how they embryos do.  I'm hedging my bets as it tends to be around cycle day 17 or 18 from what I've read so I'll get out there a couple of days before that.  More importantly, was the ex impressed by the Ronald M look??

Strawberry you'll be absolutely fine.  I did have a moment before each of mine thinking "hang on, I'm on my own in a strange place and don't speak the language about to go under GA, am I mad?" but it's honestly absolutely fine.  If the first experience had been at all bad I would never have gone back a second time.  Just checking what you mean by it delaying treatment though?  You really need to cycle within 3 months of having the hysto to take full advantage of the implantation cuts.  Or are you having it then trying naturally?  I've never had any trouble with any of the antibiotics either.  Where are you staying when you're there?

Hi Pauli, if I was back in the UK I probably would have gone for acupuncture but honestly didn't occur to me, I haven't yet found a good acupuncturist here (you'd think that wouldn't be difficult, in China!).  It'll be a fresh donor transfer, my oh's sperm is already there frozen, I'm really hoping transfer will be sometime around 19-21 Jan.  I'm assuming we'll put 2 back, providing we get 2 good ones, but will go with the clinic's advice.  I absolutely love the idea of twins, if this works it will be our only shot, OH is a few years older than me and doesn't want to go for another in a couple of years.  I'll be 46 this month and also don't really want to still be doing this after this year.  However I would prefer not to have an only child so twins would be great although I'm aware that comes with its own set of complications...  And of course I would be delighted with one healthy baby.

That's great news about your gift!  Really good to have a back up plan, hopefully it may help you to feel a bit more relaxed with your next OE treatment?  Which clinic are you cycling with for OE if you don't mind me asking?

Hi to everyone else.


----------



## Shelbo76

Happy New Year ladies and hope this is the start of a good year for all of you - funnily enough and no pun intended I've just been assigned Goodyear as a client, hoping that's a good omen!

Sorry for those of you that didn't have success with your last cycle just before Christmas.

I had a consultation at Create in Birmingham yesterday to get a second opinion and advice about the best treatment route for my circumstance. Had an ultrasound and he advised he could see 3 follicles and that I'd ovulated from left one this cycle, I could've sworn it was the right going by the pain I had around the time.  He more or less confirmed the low ovarian reserve and didn't feel the need to retest my AMH levels as the ultrasound was sufficient, he advised that even with stimulation with only 3 follies I'd be lucky to get 2-3 eggs and that he'd expect my levels for someone who was 45/46    He reassured me somewhat by the fact that I'm still ovulating and that my cycles are regular and recommended a natural modified cycle (minimal stimulation protocol).  On the basis that I'm not likely to produce many eggs each cycle regardless of the level of stims he recommended a 3-cycle package that the clinic does which involves banking the eggs collected in the first 2 cycles and transferring the best of the 3 cycles on the 3rd cycle.  However as I was quoted around £12k (including meds), I'm still going to take my chances and go for my first cycle in Czech Republic, it's just a matter of when, my next cycle is due any day now (although I'm secretly hoping we've had luck this month - as I do every month!), so likely to be Feb/Mar.  

One thing the consultant mentioned to me was my BMI as it had crept up to nearly 34 and Create will still treat up to 35 but I would need a consultation with an anaesthetist to make sure I'm OK for sedation, so he advised waiting another month or 2 to reduce it a little if I were to go ahead with treatment with them.  I do very much want and need to lose weight so I'm pondering deferring my treatment to March but I know that time isn't on my side, but hopefully 1 or 2 months won't make a dramatic difference plus it gives me the chance to try and improve egg quality too.

The consultant said that they would normally recommend 2 eggs to be transferred for women over 40, however as I only have one kidney as I donated the other to my dad 13 years ago, Create would need a letter from renal consultant to confirm that a) I would be OK for pregnancy with one kidney (I have annual check-ups and no issues so far); and b) that there would be no risks to my kidney function in the event of a twin pregnancy.  As I am now, I had heavily researched pregnancy risks with one kidney before making my final decision to donate, and I had no reason to think there would be any more issues/risks to me than someone with 2 kidneys as long as my solitary kidney function was fine, so I'm hoping that a renal consultant would OK me to go ahead.  Not sure if the Czech clinics would also want this reassurance?

Can I ask if any of you have had minimal stims and your experiences, I'm just worried that with lower stims and only potentially collecting 1 or 2 eggs, it lowers my chance of getting a good one/two to transfer, consultant gave me 5% chance of success with a single cycle and 15-20% with the 3 cycle package?


----------



## LuluLimon

Evening all!
Shelbo- sorry no experience with minimal Stims. Even two or three eggs is still some and you could go for quality boosting? You are really brave and caring to donate a kidney 😘 Goodyear sounds like a good omen though!
Butterfly- yay fellow geek! CeCe may disagree but I love films - it's a rare treat for us all to go to the cinema- the last time I sort of smuggled DS in in a sling as we had free tickets to Macbeth (the one with Fassbinder). Yeah I'd like a Jedi sword ( I might just have a toy one 😂). 
Syd- I'm doing Circle & Bloom again - I just really liked them. I do recommend checking out Rosanne Austin- she is a mindset coach and her website/******** has some PMA videos and exercises- she is kickass and really good at getting you to smash beliefs/saboteur type thoughts 😁. We're planning on moving to NZ as DH is from there and my in-laws will need some help with farm/ business - plus it's awesome!
Strawberry- will be thinking of you next week. Yeah it's sad about Carrie Fischer- it was good to see her in something again. I wonder if they'll do the old recreation of her from prior clips and CG?
CeCe- I've got lovely images of a vagjazzled circus trapeze artist from you ) maybe we could start a clinic in Bali? We could do lovely massages and baths on the beach with fertility yoga poses to boost blood flow? Right between us I'm pretty sure we have all the skills needed!!
I think the new SW is s different beast- for me, it was pure enjoyment. I love my fantasy ( apart from GRRM as he won't finish his Game of Thrones- 7 years man!!!) - it's not quite Dune, but I think for the kid in me it was fine  For bad, check out the version of Neil Gaimans " How to Talk to Girls At Parties" now that, apart from the soundtrack, was dire ( but I did see the premiere in Cannes- a rare perk as an auditor!!)
Pauli- wow that is some plan. That's a real bonus having the eggs as a back up! There's always time😊- I have 3 daytime's when I normally work, but I've deliberately cut down what I'm doing in Jan/Feb ( Jan is also a slow month for EC/UN) - I usually travel which I find too stressy- so a hobby is needed as I can't afford to be a Lady What Lunches!

AFM- sorry rather verbose tonight! Our appointment went well and start DR on 29th. On Fostimon this time- any experiences? But same dosage as last time with Gonal f. Has anyone had intralipids? I've got 2 during stimming..... Were also doing one more semen test/ freeze as back up and to see how DHs vitamins are boosting motility/morphology. So back there on 23rd for consents.
Right...back to tax returns ( well in the morning- God they are awful!)
Xx


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies
How everyone's January is going well so far. 
Tootles and Lululimon I managed to find a local acupuncturist who has treated women with fertility issues. A much more reasonable price of £30 per session. I've already had one session and going for my second tomorrow. Even if it helps with stress. Lululimon I am naturally a massive stress head. The acupuncturist said she could feel my stress through my pulse. Hopefully it does something! Certainly can't do any harm. Maybe it will stop me from bursting out crying everyday. 
I have an appointment to see my consultant next week and to start the next round. In the meantime I thought we'd try naturally. I use the clear blue monitor to see when I peak. However, this month it's showing only low. This hasn't happened before and it's the month after the failed cycle. Has anyone else experienced this?


----------



## Kris76

Just catching up on the thread after I posted. 
Hi Shelbo76 - I'm nearly 42 and only have one working ovary.  They only managed to get 4 eggs on my last...and first ever collection last month, with only one viable out of the 4.  I understand where you are coming from.  Just over half of my follicles were empty.  Its really tough this side of 40.  I'm going back for a consultation, (I'm at the Lister), on Tuesday to discuss where I stand. I may have to go for the DE route, my OH is struggling with the idea of that baby not being genetically related to me. To be honest, so I am.  Not that it would make me rule it out, I would just have to come to terms with it. 

Syd72 best of luck with your upcoming transfer.  Fingers are crossed for you. Love to know more about your experience at an abroad clinic. Can I ask why you chose to go abroad and not the UK?

Pauli - I had read online a number of people express their disappointment with Emma Cannon.  I know she is touted as the fertility goddess, however, many have said that she was distracted in the consultation and asked the same questions, forgetting she already had. For £250 consultation I would expect more than just a chat.  £130 30 min acupuncture sessions is outrageous and feels she is capitalising on women's desperation. I'm happy with my local acupuncturist at £30 a session! Considering how much these cycles and the drugs cost, got to save where you can. That is impressive about your friends cycle being returned to normal. Mine is regular, just want some extra blood flow to the ovaries and uterus. ...plus Im pretty highly strung. I am keen to see how you get on with DE. The progesterone injections sounds horrendous.  I was given progesterone pessaries, much easier.  

StrawberrySundae - Yes, I listen to relaxation music going to sleep every night.  It took my OH a while to get used to random animal noises in the forest coming at him. I also have been going to soundbaths which I swear by for relaxation. It might seem a little mad to people but I absolutely love it. I first came across it at Glastonbury last year.  I've been sold ever since. 

Tootles - I definitely cant be doing hypnotherapy and talk to my ovaries.  There's no way I could do it without laughing or rolling my eyes. 

Cece - We all feel your pain and frustration.  I've had enough and I've only done one cycle.  I understand when you can't put yourself through it any longer. It's the toughest thing to experience and no one can fully understand until they go through it themselves. I hope you can find your peace.  

Butterfly - Menopur is a breeze. I am deathly afraid of needles and had to get my OH to do it for me as I couldn't bring myself to.  I know, very childish. However, due to circumstance (OH couldn't exactly come with me to the ladies loos) I was forced to inject myself.  It wasn't bad at all. It helps if you have a bit of muffin top like I do, then you can barely feel it at all. 

Lulu - I too loved the new Star Wars.  I love watching films too, it also helps to distract me.  We go to the BFI Film Festival every year.  This year I did 16 movies in 10 days! Mad, I know.  However, I work from home, so am very flexible with my time. 

I better go and do some work now.  Much more enjoyable chatting to you ladies.


----------



## andrea75

Hi everyone

Ive recently changed my name on here, previously Bumblebee  

Quick question, what supplements/vitamins are you taking to improve egg quality?  also for my mans morphology as was previously low?

Hope you are all well....i wont try and do personals sorry

xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Hey bumblebee/crazycats!
I'm doing ubiquinol/Apimist+ (bee pollen and propolis)/ resveratrol/Omegas and multi-vitamin. 
For men, Proxeed (Amazon/) or Fertilix Max ( the latter is expensive but recommended by Dr Ramsey and our nutritionist). 
Im using same as last cycle and DH used Proxeed last cycle. Fertilix is recommended for +40 or where quality needs to improve.


----------



## andrea75

LuluLimon said:


> Hey bumblebee/crazycats!
> I'm doing ubiquinol/Apimist+ (bee pollen and propolis)/ resveratrol/Omegas and multi-vitamin.
> For men, Proxeed (Amazon/) or Fertilix Max ( the latter is expensive but recommended by Dr Ramsey and our nutritionist).
> Im using same as last cycle and DH used Proxeed last cycle. Fertilix is recommended for +40 or where quality needs to improve.


Thank you ...will go have a look and see what I can find xx


----------



## Glitterbabe2017

Hi ladies

Thank you for your kind words of support. I'm on a mobile app and have to keep scrolling for names. Sorry if I missed anyone. 

@Tootles - so sorry to read about your news. 

@CEce40 - love your sense of humour and the watery/crying mess, sorry I was mean as it did make me smile and giggle out loud reading it. 

@Butterfly1976 - I started Suprecur on Weds 27th Dec after my baseline scan and started Menopur a day later. No pains or bruises from the needles. 

My cold has gone but I have hurt my lower back hahaha. I think even a snail can move faster than me at the moment. 

I had a scan Weds 3rd and all was ok. Reasonable amount of follicles. Today (5th Jan) scan results not good - follicles coming along nicely, egg collection on 8th Jan but nurse/sonograpger noticed a potential polyp. My heart sank. I had 4 polyps removed in June 2017, read they do return but never expected it to be so soon. They said of it is polyps, eggs can be frozen. I feel very defeated at moment as frozen eggs (If good enough quality to be frozen) are never as good as fresh eggs and then I am worried what if they don't male the thawing process. 

Defeated because my infertility was caused by an ex whom I was living with who cheated and gave me chlamydia. Like a silly woman I gave him another chance. 3 years later tried for baby, couldn't get pregnant. Fertility test showed both fallopian tubes block and filled with fluid (hydrosalpinx). When he heard I can not have kids I was dumped (2013). On my own had a tube removed, the other one was and still is stuck under the bowels.  Since then any dates I had where I think it may have a chance of progressing I tell them I can't have kids naturally. It's a deal breaker and I get that. 

Just before my 39th birthday I met a guy who didn't run a mile at the possibility of no biological kids. By then I had already accepted kids is unlikely and he is not too fond of kids so bonus. I never mentioned ivf as was careful didn't want him thinking I just wanted a sperm donor. It was him who suggested we give this a try as he could feel I wanted to be a mum by seeing how I was around kids (bless him). 

I secretly sob my heart out when I read or hear friends pregnancy announcement. 

The potential polyp had really knocked the wind out of me. Im crying inside but don't even have the energy to cry with tears at the moment.


----------



## Shelbo76

Morning ladies,

@CrazyCats - I started taking ubiquinol a few months back and have since added in Vitamin D and DHEA to help boost my eggs, I figured if I haven't got many left I'll try and do what I can to boost. Got my man on wellman conception though apparently he's got super sperm at 153 mill/ml and 51% motility - I'm sure they're swimming in wrong direction!!

@Glitterbabe - really hope it isn't a polyp and you do get to transfer. So sorry to hear about your past struggles, what a  ex and then to leave you after being the cause of your infertility! I was single for most of my adult life, was with someone for nearly 5 years who said he didn't want children and I thought I could talk him round, it was pointless anyway as we never even had sex and he would never talk about it (he was the problem), no idea why I stayed so long as it really dented my confidence and made me convinced that no-one else would want me. Several years unsuccessful dating later and I was always too scared to ask if they wanted children. Met my OH 4 months before my 40th birthday in 2016 and thankfully we were on the same page regarding children as he has none either and we decided to start trying 5 months after meeting as thought why wait and we both felt comfortable with each other, so glad we didn't wait.

I try not to worry myself but I panic sometimes realising that I've waited this long to meet someone and finally be in the position to have children but it may be too late. Still trying to be positive about my chances with ivf even if it means going down the donor route, my OH isn't too keen on adoption and would like a child that is genetically linked to at least one of us.

I find it hard too hearing pregnancy announcements, my cousin is expecting her first at the moment and I'm so happy for her but I'm wary that I've been keeping my distance from her.

I'm currently 14dpo today and AF is due today and I know I've got my hopes up again







as I temp every morning and my temps have never stayed high for so long as they normally start falling before 11/12 dpo. I'm too scared to test as I'm so used to seeing the stark whiteness but I'm going to have to test if AF doesn't show before Monday morning as I've got an appointment for my MMR jab as my rubella immunity was tested low and I'll need to make sure I'm not pregnant before getting the vaccine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Syd72

Glitter I'm so sorry for what you've been through, that's beyond awful.  When will you get an update on the polyp?

Hi Kris, can't remember how much of this I've said before so sorry if I'm repeating myself.  I've cycled with 2 clinics in the UK, Lister and Oxford, both were fine.  I just wanted somewhere that would take a more personalised approach rather than just look at my age and give me a standard protocol.  I was aware that Serum do some additional testing and generally have a more thorough approach.  Also once I decided to go the donor route I wanted a clinic that really works hard to match donors to recipients, that takes care of their donors.  Serum has a fantastic reputation for that.  From the moment I contacted them by email I've found them to be incredibly responsive, friendly and caring.  I'm really excited to get going now 

Thanks Lulu, I'll take a look.  NZ is awesome although it's a very long time since I was last there.

Shelbo, can't offer any advice I'm afraid but what an incredible thing you did.


----------



## Glitterbabe2017

Thank you Shelbo and Syd. 

I will get a update on the polyp on Mon 8th Jan when they collect the eggs. I had hoped the consultant would have taken a look at me yesterday and confirm it either way, its the not knowing that is making me anxious at the moment. I do understand that maybe they needed to wait for my endo lining to get thicker so they can get a clearer look but for me this is an emergency lol. All logic goes out the window. 

The scan yesterday showed 18 good sized follicles. Trigger injection tonight. No injections tomorrow evening ....yay.


----------



## pauli

Glitterbabe, 
As others already said your ex was such a b.....d!!!! But you pull through - it show you are a strong women and you need all the strength you can get for this IVF journey as it isn't for the fainthearted ;-) Your partner seems the right supportive kind! I really hope it is not a polyp. But if it is, these are the things I would consider:

1) On Monday during the EC - could you ask the Consultant to do a hysteroscopy and remove the polyp? You will be under sedation so it seems a good opportunity to do it (although I have no idea if this can be done at the same time, I had a hysterospcy & polyp removed before I started our first IVF cycle). It will be extra costs, but if it is a polyp, the clinic will probably recommend to remove it before ET anyway. It would be great if the clinic could do it on Monday, you will still have to freeze the embryos, but might be able to do FET on the following cycle.

2) Think of the positives! You have 18 follicles which is absolutely fantastic! Not many ladies over 40 can achieve that. Very likely you should end up with a good number of blastocysts to freeze. Once you remove the polyp, you can plan FET. There are benefits of doing FET: your body is free of drugs you took during stimms and you can prepare your body/uterus for FET.

3) Do we actually have evidence to support the theory that fresh transfers are better than FET? There are actually clinics who show better success rates with FET. Only the good quality embryos can be frozen and subsequently transferred. If the clinic has a good lab, the risks of freezing and thawing embryos are minimal.

So while polyp is a 'pain in the bum' showing unexpectedly during the stimms, it does not mean you cannot have success. Quite the opposite. FET could be the right thing for you. Fingers crossed all goes well with EC and you end up with many good blasts in the freezer xx

Syd,
Has your AF made an appearance yet? Really funny not being able to find a good acupuncturist in China ;-) Hope you are on track for your DE cycle. Good decision to put 2 embys back, I am thinking the same. We are going for one more OE cycle to a clinic in Prague CZ (it is called Gennet). The clinic which gifted us DE is CFI in North Carolina USA (I went there as they treated my sister). It feels good to have a plan. If our last OE cycle works, it will be a miracle, so I have zero expectations. So mentally I am already preparing for DE.

Shelbo, 
Amazing thing to donate a kidney. Hope this will not hinder your IVF efforts. Sorry about the outcome of your appointment but at least you know the facts, so you can prepare the best possible plan. I think that clinics in CZ also offer natural modified cycles (I am going to ask them about mild stimms protocol, try to get the best quality eggs rather than the maximum number of eggs). There is a thread here on FF, ladies are super knowledgeable on low AMH/high FSH and have a lot of experience between them: 
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=365426.0

Lulu,
Wow - NZ sounds quite an adventure! I had Fostimon on one of the cycles, did not notice much difference from Gonal F, hopefully it will agree with you. Let us know if the vitamins / supplements are making difference for your DH morphology. My DH saw increase from 3 to 4%, so not great. Did you find a hobby yet? ;-)

Kris, Well done for finding a therapist reasonably priced, hopefully the sessions will help you with managing the stress and you find them relaxing.

CrazyCats, Looks like we will be at the same CZ clinic!

Good weekend to everyone xx


----------



## StrawberrySundae

Hi hope everyone's having a good weekend. 
I've been organising things & making the most of it being the start of a new year, feel quite pleased with myself. Going on a diet has been a bit delayed tho due to late Xmas presents of more chocs & biscuits!  

Syd and Pauli thanks for your support   I'm sure the hysto will be ok, I also had one with a lap about 11 yrs ago, I think it was ok. And 1 bad egg collection at Serum after so many procedures maybe is to be expected? 

Syd what I meant by delayed treatment is due to finances   It all costs a lot and after coming back from Athens will have longer to save for next FET at our clinic in St Petersburg - my DH doubts we'll make the 3 month implantation cuts timescale for next transfer, so will have to see.. I'll be in the Athinais, been a few times, quite like it & v handy for Serum! 

Pauli I had PGS on 8 or 9 OE blasts aged 41 and only 1 was normal (initially 'no result' so had to be defrosted, more cells collected & refrozen- unsurprisingly it was a CP). Then with DE so far only 1 out of 6 was normal with PGS, so it's not always so straight forward   Good that it worked for your sister tho.

Shelbo I tried Serum's gentle clomid protocol, easier on the body & my blasts were all top quality but probably just too old! It was a good protocol.

Lulu good luck with the vits! My DH's samples seemed to improve with more of them!

Glitter babe best of luck with the polyps and I'm so sorry to hear about your ex, grr! 

Sorry I've lost track of some of the updates! Enjoy the rest of your weekends


----------



## andrea75

AARRRGGGHHHH i just wrote a long message and the bloody kitten stood on my keyboard and deleted it 

*Pauli *- that's lovely to know...have you been yet or when have you got planned? We will be going in March with aim to cycle with June AF if possible

*Shelbo* - thanks for that advice. I ordered some Uriquinol lastnight and bought some pre-pregnancy vitamins today to get started. Wellman was bought for DF so I'm sure he'll be chuffed

*Gliiterbabe* - I hope you get some answers soon so you know what you're doing

*StrawberrySundae* - I've never had a hysteroscopy... I wonder will that be recommended to me when i go for consultation? I've had a scratch before tho

*Kris* - Hope you're appointment goes well...my DF is the same with regards to DE. Hes slowly coming round to adoption tho which is good as this is our final cycle, which my parents are funding 

Sorry to who I've missed as screen wont let me look back further.

AFM - off to City Fertility on 15th February for bloods and semen analysis. Consultation booked in Prague on 15th March. I'm very nervous


----------



## Shelbo76

So since I posted this morning I didn’t have any tests so tried an OPK as have heard of ladies getting positives on them due to them picking up levels of HCG, it wasn’t quite positive but quite dark so that along with my high temps got my hopes up. OH said we should go out and get a test so whilst getting ready I had a trickle of blood but nothing more after wiping and as it was fresh blood I assumed it was the start of AF so I was a bit gutted. We still took a walk to the shops and I picked up some Always Ultra in anticipation of a heavier flow later and something told me to just get a FRER from Boots too. As I’d had no further blood when we got back decided to wait 4hrs and try test if still no more blood. I really wasn’t expecting it but to my surprise a 2nd line appeared and not a squinter... this is my ever first BFP!! I guess because of my news before Xmas we were a lot more relaxed about trying as I’d pretty much given up hope of conceiving naturally. OH doesn’t seem as excited as me just yet but I’m sure it’ll sink in soon, I’m just praying for a sticky bean and that the blood earlier was just implantation bleeding and nothing more sinister.

Thanks lovely ladies for your advice over the last few weeks as it has kept me positive and given me hope that all wasn’t lost. I know it’s still very early days and anything can happen but trying to keep feet firmly on the ground for now xx


----------



## CEce40

Afternoon everyone, 

Kris - usually my first period after a failed cycle is a week late, so it may be that your ovulation is just delayed

Pauli - I've never had PGS testing. They dont offer it at my clinic and our Doc questioned its reliability anyway. There's been a few studies showing it may not be quite what it's cracked up to be. If we had loads of good quality blasts then I might consider it, but I'm not expecting to be that lucky.

Glitterbabe - wow, that's a horror tale. But you've got a great guy now and fingers crossed you'll have a cracking family soon. My clinic is involved in a trial at the moment to test whether fresh or frozen transfers are better. The theory is that sometimes it can be better to freeze and let everything get back to normal before transferring. So dont be too down if you need to freeze to sort the polyp out. 

Shelbo - how lovely are you, you little kidney fairy! Sounds like you've had your fair share of frogs too. But you've well and truly found your Prince now.

Lululimon - NZ sounds fab. Jealous. Fancy hosting a Fertility Friends meet up I'm loving your Bali plans, I'm defo in. Although I think you may be overestimating my skills. You can be in charge of the yoga, relaxation etc, I'll take the cocktail making and karaoke. Don't let me burst your SW bubble. It was good and I could definitely see how everyone loves it. I'm just such a fan of the originals; I walked down the aisle to the Darth Vada tune.

AFM - I'm starting to feel like the drugs are finally leaving my system (only 3 weeks since I stopped taking them!). My headaches are now minimal, my constipation is ending (I'm getting through the backlog - if you catch my drift!) and last night I actually got a full nights sleep. Delighted. Although, I seem to be left with some ridiculous clumsiness. Now I've always been a bit of a klutz, but really, I'm 40 years old, I don't need to be doing these things anymore. Recent examples: 
Injury 1, 3 days ago -  crossed my legs, kicked the coffee table! this was not even a Kenny Everett style 'best possible taste' leg cross, this was, so I thought, I normal leg cross that had enough ferocity to smash my toe on the top corner. Who knew I was so violent with my limbs!
Injury 2, 2 days ago -  explaining to work colleagues why I'm walking like an idiot, described said toe incident and fell into a desk.
Injury 3, today - got carried away watching West Side Story, decided to ask DH if he wanted lunch through the medium of song and dance. I piroetted into a wall
Injury 4, also today - still carried away by West Side Story, me and DH recreating dance fighting whilst making sandwiches, mistimed my ballet lunge, butter knife to the groin.

I'm really not sure I should be contemplating kids!


----------



## CEce40

Oh my god, Shelbo, just read your last post. This is amazing news. so so pleased for you.


----------



## pauli

Congrats Shelbo, fantastic!!! Hopefully long and healthy pregnancy to follow xx


----------



## andrea75

CEce40 - my OH would say I'm very similar to you as I'm so clumsy... I'm often covered in mysterious bruised and no idea how i got them  

Congratulations Shelbo such lovely news.  I'm sure oh will come round once the news sinks in


----------



## Syd72

Congratulations Shelbo, fantastic.


----------



## miamiamo

Shelbo76 - fantastic news. Wish you a healthy pregnancy


----------



## Glitterbabe2017

Thank you Pauli for the pointers to ask and consider tomorrow. And thank you to the ladies for your support. 

Congratulations Shelbo. Wonderful news xx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Congratulations Shelbo what a lovely start to the new year! Wishing you all the best xx

Pauli - Ouch those progesterone injections sound nasty! Suddenly my pesseries don't look so bad. 

Glitterbabe - Hoping all OK for tomorrow and they don't find a polyp but if so like other ladies have said, frozen embryos could be a good thing. You're right about frozen eggs not being as good as fresh but if the clinic will fertilize the eggs and freeze them as embryos than that's a very different story as Pauli has said.

Sorry to everyone I've missed, I can't keep up with all the posts!

xx


----------



## Shelbo76

Thank you all for your lovely kind wishes. It still feels quite surreal and I'm sure even my GP was surprised when I told him this morning.

Glitterbabe - hope all was OK for your egg collection today and no polyp.

Wishing you all lots of success on your IVF journey and for those of you currently cycling, fingers crossed that all goes well xxx


----------



## Glitterbabe2017

Hi ladies

I was so groggy afterwards I forgot to ask the nurse if it was a polyp and if yes the size of it.

I have to start Utrogestan pessary tonight. 3 times a day; morning, lunch and evening. Has anyone had these before and recommend the best time/hour to insert them?  

Update: Tues 9th - 13 eggs collected. 11 was good quality. This morning 6 (of the 11) fertilised. Now to wait & see how they progress over next few days


----------



## pauli

Glitterbabe, that’s good result with 6 fertilised. Fingers crossed they continue developing nicely in a lab! What about polyp, can you have a fresh transfer? 

Sorry, no advise as for pesaries, never used them, only progesterone ugly injections and suppositories. You can always call your clinic for advice if you are unsure. Hope you can find the answers quickly! 

Hi to everyone else xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Wow a fair bit happened over the weekend!
Shelbo- that's fantastic to read! Congrats. Keeping all crossed things go well for you XXX
Glitterbabe- 6 fertilised is pretty good! Hope they keep going to some nice blasts! No clue about 3(!) Pessaries- I've tended to be on Lubion injections. Hope your clinic answered.
Cece-  yay another klutz- you might get more coordinated, you never know! I am continually covered in bruises on my knees/legs...mostly I just can't remember, I wouldn't mind if it was a raucous night out, but it is usually the sofa or door.
I do bow to your infinite geekiness- DarthVadar march for the wedding march takes some beating!! What did you make the bridesmaids wear ? please say stormtrooper suits!!
Pauli- we have another test for DH next week so we will see. As it was due to injury, we don't know how much is normal recovery and how much supplements, bit went from 1 to 36% morphology between Oct- Nov. We found it a bit of a blow, as there was always the hope we could get pg again naturally but now not likely😐
Still no hobby for me- taxes take forever! I have found some new fantasy books to read and I think I will knit myself a scarf and a jumper.
Hi to everyone else!
Lulu x


----------



## blondieh

Well I’m tying to loose weight fast to go for number 3. Our clinic will only do it till I’m 43 with our own eggs. I’m worried as I have a month!


----------



## Kris76

I've only been away from this forum for a few days and its all happening.  

Such great news Shelbo!  It's really wonderful and I hope all goes well for you going forward.  You bring hope to us all. I've never had a BFP, fingers crossed it happens one day soon. If your partner is anything like mine, he is a bit more reserved about being enthusiastic as me.  He feels, he wouldn't want to get his hopes up until I am in the safe zone. Perhaps your partner is the same...or it just hasn't sunk in yet. 

Thanks CeCe - It is all rather delayed, period and ovulation.  I only just got a peak reading today, when it would normally have been a week ago. 

Glitterbabe, incredible egg collection number.  6 fertilised is a great number.  What I would do for an egg collection of that number.  I only have one working ovary and just managed to collect 4 eggs with only 1 viable...that cycle failed.  So the point is, you should be really happy with that result.  I had to take cyclogest pessaries, after implantation. Twice a day vaginally or rectally, I just did it when I got up and before bed.  I had to lie down for 20 mins after taking them otherwise it will slide out before it can be absorbed. 
I had a follow up yesterday for my failed cycle.  They didn't really offer much of an explanation, they don't really know, it's all guess work.  My protocol is being changed.  No synarel this time and they will be adding Gonal F along with the menopur.  Ill have to take two different trigger injections as well.  Lucky I am fast getting over my needle phobia.  I just have to wait for me period to begin, which should be in a week.  However, in the meantime, we tried again naturally.  Not holding my breath.  I am really enjoying the acupuncture.  I go twice a week.  I do find it relaxing and hopefully it is also helping the blood flow to my ovaries.  The acupuncturist today gave me some herbal pills...Nuan Gong Yun Zi Wan.  Apparently it is meant to 'warm' the uterus in preparation for pregnancy.  However, now I am not so sure I should be taking anything outside of what the Lister prescribes me. Any thoughts?

Good luck ladies.


----------



## Glitterbabe2017

Good evening ladies 

@Pauli - I asked about polyp before theatre and the consultant said if it's small transfer can still go ahead. I forgot the size he said as was too nervous. He didn't seem fazed my polyps. After theatre I was so groggy I forgot to ask. I did ask the embryologist who called with an update the next day but she said there was no notes regarding polyp. She doesn't think the consultant looked for it during egg collection. 

Thank you everyone for kind words. I can't scroll up when typing so unable to list everyone. 

I currently feel bloated like a water balloon. I'd like to think it's the drugs but I think it's a mixture of Xmas and the drugs. I did the silly thing and weighed myself, wish I hadn't now. 

I'm still tender especially on the right side. Hope they don't call me in for egg transfer on Thurs 11th. Not sure if it will affect chances if my body is still in pain and trying to repair itself.


----------



## andrea75

blondieh said:


> Well Im tying to loose weight fast to go for number 3. Our clinic will only do it till Im 43 with our own eggs. Im worried as I have a month!


I'm in the same position. Just over BMI 35.8 Good luck &#128578;


----------



## Glitterbabe2017

Hi ladies

Hope you are all having a good weekend. 

I had the Egg Transfer yesterday (Sat 13th). Only 1 of the 6 made it to Day 5 blastocyst. I had an update from the clinic this morning. Only 1 of the remaining 5 made it to blastocyst but unfortunately the quality was not good enough to freeze. 

I'm devastated. I mentally told myself not to get hopes up too high last night but reality is different isn't it. I was hoping if there was some to freeze then it won't cost as much as starting all over again. We have no back up plan now 😭


----------



## andrea75

*glitterbabe* it must be so disheartening but just try and think positive as this cycle *will* work


----------



## Kris76

I'm so sorry to hear Glitterbabe. However, it only takes one to work. So if your from yesterday works, then that will just be incredible. 
When I went for my consultation, I said to my Dr that I was optimistic that I would have leftovers to freeze. He told me not to be, that it was rare, only about 10% of women ever had any spare to freeze. He was right, only 1 egg made it for implantation. However, I had a dream before collection that 22 eggs were collected and all made it to blastocyst and the Dr was saying I had more embryos than he knew what to do with. That would be a nice problem to have. Reality was very different! 
I understand your disappointment, it's so much easier to have spares. I found it helped to focus on being grateful to have at least one good quality embryo. As having none would be horrendous. 
Fingers crossed it works.


----------



## blondieh

Crazycats42 it’s so hard isn’t it x I need to lose a lot and I’ve bought a food diary to help starting tomorrow x


----------



## pauli

Hello ladies, hope everybody is doing well. 

Blondieh, good luck with your food diary, it must be hard trying to loose weight when you have a young family to look after. Hope you can achieve your goal. Do you have an option to change the clinics? (I would not like that sort of pressure). I think there are clinics who treat patients with OE even if they are older than 43. I am sorry if that's not an option for you. 

Glitterbabe, congrats on your transfer!!! I know how tough it is to have nothing in the freezer, but you need to focus on the one which you have transferred and has hopefully implanted by now. Clearly they transferred the best emby you had, and that could be the golden one!!! I think you are in the best position to get BFP. Look after yourself, take it easy, keep warm and keep faith ;-) Keeping my fingers crossed for you! 

Kris, I know, those follow-up appointments usually do not answer the most important question "why it has not worked". It is a matte r of trying again maybe with some tweaks of the protocol. I had Menopur and Gonal F on the last 2 cycles , hopefully it will work for you. Interesting about 2 trigger injections, never heard of it. How are they different and what is the reason for that? Really intrigued. 

Glad you find the acupuncture relaxing, I am sure it can be beneficial. As for the herbs, I am sorry I have no experience. You can always ask your clinic what their recommendation would be. Alternatively you can take it and stop when you start the next cycle. Well obviously if you need another IVF cycle, good luck with trying naturally.    

CrazyCats, Gennet never mentioned anything about BMI and ideal weight for IVF. As your appointment is not until a few months later, you have a bit of time if you wanted to loose some weight. I am not sure if the success of IVF depends on BMI alone. I remember reading a diary here on FF of a single lady who had success despite her struggles with BMI.  

Hi Lulu, knitting sounds good, it is very creative and therapeutic. Have you started? I used to knit when I was younger, nothing recently though, but I think the choice of materials today is really good. Are you still waiting for the test of SA before planning the next steps? 

Syd, hope all is on track with your DE cycle at Serum. Fingers crossed for many good blastocysts, so you have some left also in a freezer as a back-up!

Strawberry, how was your hysteroscopy at Serum? Hope it went fine and it was the right thing to do ahead of the next FET. When are you planning to do the next FET? 

Butterfly, how are you doing? Hopefully you managed ok with pessaries. When is your OTD? Keeping everything crossed ;-) 

AFM, we had our first consultation with Gennet in Czech Republic last week. I had a blood test and a scan while there. Except the decline in my AFC (which was expected), the other things seem fine. So hoping to get my protocol and prescription sharpish so I can source the drugs and start the cycle early Feb.  

Tootle, CeCe, TigerSmiles...everyone who follows this thread, hope you are doing well
xx


----------



## StrawberrySundae

Hi everyone, hope all's going well. Sorry if I don't mention everyone individually, find it a bit hard to keep track & my energy levels could be better, hoping they  pick up in the spring! 

Pauli thanks for asking, the hysteroscopy went ok & I'm relieved and glad I've done it and it's behind me! It was really interesting seeing dead tissue & some little adhesions being removed on the DVD afterwards, but nice to know all generally healthy. Good luck with your cycle at Gennet, not long to go til you can start! I have to wait for PGS results before starting my next cycle and then I have to take the birth control pill in order to schedule a specific date for the FET - hopefully March or April (still ages to go!   )

Syd I hope your cycle goes well at Serum. It was so nice to see Penny last week  

Glitterbabe good luck with your embie!   Hope it's a lucky one!

Blonde if it's any use Serum do OE for ladies in 40's, I've seen a few 43-45 doing OE cycles with them. 

Best of luck everyone with all treatments & preparations x


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Pauli - I haven't had EC yet, only on day 15 of DR injections. I have my scan tomorrow to see if I am ready to start stims. Annoyingly I'm still bleeding from AF which on day 7 would normally have stopped by now. It's not heavy but is bright red proper blood still so I'm hoping that won't delay things  

I'm doing OK on the burselin although I'm so tired all the time but wide awake when I go to bed  

Glitterbabe - Congratulations on transfer fingers crossed for you xx . I was also hoping to get some frosties but when I said that at my consultation the clinic didn't think it very likely.

Love to all xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Hello All
Glitterbabe- great news on the transfer, it only takes one. Be positive!!
Pauli- glad your Gennet consultant went well and you're now counting down to start! I haven't started knitting- I chose the wool and then had some minor Marie Kondo tidying up- our lounge looks better- at least you can see surfaces now! 
For Info, our SA results went from 36-45% morphology and count from 360k to 1.5m in 6 weeks. so still iSCi but at least confident numbers are in the right direction and not declining. 

Strawberry- glad it went well for you. Huge quodos at watching the DVD of it!! I think it would make me faint!!
Butterfly hope the bleeding stops - soon. Good luck for the scan x


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

We made it through another week!

Glitterbabe, I hope you are managing with the waiting game. It really is the most stressful but. I'm sending you and your emby much luck. 

Pauli - Good news on starting your next cycle soon. Hope that all goes smoothly. How did you go taking both menopur and Gonal F? Menopur alone made me all over the place. 
As for the two trigger injections, the Dr explained that it is intended to help mature the eggs. The last 4 of mine that were collected, 3 were still immature. So I hope that the 2nd trigger does its job. Just waiting for my period to start so I can start my next cycle. It was due yesterday, I'm sure it will come tomorrow. I don't see myself as being that lucky. I'm now used to being disappointed every month. 

Butterfly - I do hope you can start your stims soon. That happened to me too where I had fresh blood and it went for a lot longer than normal. It eventually stopped. 

Crazycats - good luck with the food diary. It does help to keep you accountable. I wish they could just give injections for weightloss rather than have to go through the tedium of dieting. 

Strawberry - best of luck with the upcoming cycle. 

Hope all is well with everyone else. 

I'm going to an IVF meet up this Saturday, it's in Chiswick and run by IVF Babble. I follow them on Instagram. However, their website and newsletter is really great and helpful. It was started by two ladies who went through IVF themselves. Looking forward to that. Worth having a look at the website. 

Good luck all. Xx


----------



## Syd72

Sorry for the radio silence and thank you for the well wishes.

Kris, hope the meet up goes well, it will be lovely to meet up in person with people that understand this whole process.

Lulu, great that the results are improving!

Butterfly, really hope the bleeding stops soon.

Pauli, any news on your protocol?

Strawberry, you're going with the other clinic (other than Serum) first aren't you?

Glitter, I'm really sorry but as the others said,  hopefully that one is the one!  How are you feeling now?

I'm having a low day so apologies in advance for the moan.  I had to hedge my bets a bit on flights to Athens as doing it last minute from Hong Kong is too expensive.  Needles to say I didn't estimate well and I'm now going to be here for 10 days.  My lining scan yesterday didn't go well, only 7mm and I assume not triple lined so they've increased my cyclacur and want me back in on Monday for another scan, worried about that as I've never had lining issues before, usually more than 8mm and triple lined by this stage although I've also never down regged before.  My donor isn't ready yet which means I have time but I'm worried that she seems to be taking longer than everyone else's donor, I still don't have any details about her and again, everyone else has details about their donor by this stage.  The wifi in the apartment I'm renting isn't working and I do need to work all of next week to avoid taking it as leave, also working today.  The owner is being fantastic and trying really hard to get it fixed, as a work around he's spoken to his friend who owns the cafe next door to the apartment and I'm allowed to sit and work in there all day.  The apartment owner has told me to order whatever drinks and food I want and he's picking up the bill which is lovely.  However, it's Greece, which means everyone in here smokes.  By the time I'd been in here an hour I had a headache and felt sick.  Heading back to the apartment shortly, I can't take the smell any more.  Also it's cold and Athens apartments are like Hong Kong apartments, no decent heating!

Sorry, I hate being so whingy, just feel like everything is going wrong.  On the plus side there are a few other ladies out here at the moment either cycling or for hystos and we're meeting for dinner tonight which will be nice.  I might even go wild and have a couple of glasses of wine since I won't be transferring for at least a week!

Hi to everyone else, hope you're all ok x


----------



## LuluLimon

Kris- hope our enjoy your meet! I have heard of it ☺. It's really nice to talk to ppl who UNDERSTAND (and not pity/sympathy)! I have one friend near me who has to do IVF we did a baby class together and found out by chance we'd both been at Bart's and for IVF! We are now going on the journey for our no2's but it's nice to know we can call each other up and have pizza when it's too much and everyone bl££#y else is pregnant! ( I've had enough royal baby news grrrrr!!!)

Syd- I'm sorry things are a bit unexpected for you with lining and no info   
Really tell your body how much you love it and how much you really need it to work with you. It sounds dumb, but I really believe in the mind-body connection and letting our minds dictate rather than our bodies.

I think a nice dinner and a glass or two will do wonders to help you relax! 
I was in Athens for work before my first FET and remember the rapid changing of wifi!! 🙄And the smoke 🤔

Consent meeting for us on Tues and drugs arrive Thursday. It's soooo slow this stage! I worry that I have bad memory and tiredness now, and will be so bad once I'm on the cocktail. I think I will have to write fridge notes to remind myself everything: today, left front door unlocked and broth on cooker for 6hrs 😴
Lulu x


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

My scan went well on Wednesday so I started the Menopur Wednesday night. What a pain having to mix 6 vials together! I'm sure half my dose of meds must end up left in the bottom of the vials even though DH is doing his best to get it all out. Can't believe they don't make a bigger dose bottle!!

I'm still bleeding even after 10 days so am getting fed up now. The nurse didn't seem worried and said AF can drag on with the Burselin but I hope it stops soon, it's worrying me TBH, it's so scary to think that my body might not be doing what it needs to do.

Glitterbabe - hope you're managing to stay sane in the TTW, must be really difficult x

Lulu - The whole process is so slow it's agony! Did you have to go on the pill for a bit before down reg as well? If it makes you feel better DH and I went out for a few hours the other day and came back to find we have left the keys in the outside of our front door!  

Syd - Hope you are feeling better and you have a lovely meal. It's good to talk to people who understand.

Kris - Good to know that it's not just me with the bleeding, thank you x

Love to you all xx


----------



## StrawberrySundae

Hello All, hope you've all got something nice planned this weekend.

Butterfly hope it's going well mixing all the vials etc, I know it can be a bit complicated! 

Lulu good to hear you're nearly at the consent stage, takes a while each step doesn't it! I agree on your thoughts about telling your body nice things  

Syd sorry to hear things haven't gone quite to plan so far, but don't let that put you off (sometimes the most awkward or unexpected cycles are the ones that work!) Shame I missed you by a few days, hope you enjoyed your meal   Yes I'm trying my already frozen embryos first but have to see how pgs testing goes first & still considering immunes as my nk cells have increased .. all taking so long! 

Kris enjoy the ivf meet up, hope you enjoy it & it's useful for you.

Crazycats I'm trying to cut back as well after Xmas & then put a bit more on after my hysto! Feels hard depriving yourself but when mixed with an exercise plan it can help & is worth it in the long run  

Hope everyone else is doing well. Take care all x


----------



## Glitterbabe2017

Hi everyone

Thank you for the support. Sorry can't list names as my phone won't allow me to see messages once I'm texting. 

A quick update. Sorry if it's too graphic. After using the bathroom earlier I noticed what could be early signs of Aunt Flo. I think AF will be here full force before the recommended pregnancy test date - Fri 26th. I sort of knew, been having period pain symptoms which I haven't had since removal of fallopian tube. Having it removed probably changed some hormone balance, no idea, just know not had it since operation so has to be somehow linked. 

I tried to kid myself it could be implantation bleeding, clutching onto straws but after Googling the dates it sounds more like AF as today is 14 days after egg collection. 

Had a good cry, feel much better now


----------



## andrea75

*glitterbabe* oh I so sorry. Hopefully it's not and AF stays away. Thinking of you xx

*strawberry* I'm struggling today...Chinese for tea and I've found the Xmas stash of sweets x

Happy Sunday to everyone xx


----------



## miamiamo

glitterbabe - I am sorry, and hope everything will be OK


----------



## Syd72

Glitterbabe, desperately hoping it’s not af x


----------



## Syd72

Thanks ladies.  As you predicted, things are much better today   Lining this morning is 10mm and trilaminar, donor egg collection is today and my transfer is Saturday, very excited now!  Also the wifi is working and my the apartment owner has dropped me round a brand new phone charger as mine is no longer working, it's his gift to me as an apology for the wifi issues.  It was lovely to meet up with others on Friday and Saturday, Strawberry such a shame we missed each other.

Glitter, how're things today?

Butterfly, glad all went well - mixing 6 vials would be a complete pain!  I used to find mixing 2 annoying enough.

Lulu are you long or short protocol?  Good advice on the mind body connection, a generally more positive mindset is something I need to work on.

Kris, how was the meet up?

Hi to everyone else.


----------



## Kris76

Glitterbabe - my heart breaks for you.  I really, really hope it is not the case.  We all know the devastation of it not working, you're not alone there.  This whole process is a headf%$k.  Just agony.  Our thoughts and best wishes are with you. 

The IVF meeting up on the weekend was great.  Comforting to be in a room full of women who are in the same boat.  They had speakers as well, most interesting one from a consultant who talked about faulty chromosomes.  He explained Preimplantation Genetic Screening (PGS), which I wasn't aware of. He said this screening can really increase the chances of a successful implantation and live birth. He said embryos can be looked at under a microscope and look perfect to the trained eye for implantation but chromosomally are not.  So the body will reject it or it will end up as a miscarriage. He said he has made confident decisions on what he felt were the best embryos to implant and was wrong (this was done in a test environment).  I am very intrigued about this.  He said, ideally you need a decent egg collection and embryo count so they can test an embryo.  However, the likes of me, that only produced one egg and therefore one embryo, they would never risk it and test on it. Only if there were "spares".  I don't think a lot of clinics in the UK do it.  I am going to check with the Lister if they do.  Whereas, it is quite common to screen in the US. 
Something to look in to. 

Sounds like a few of us are having low days.  My period is 4 days late and it rarely ever is.  I brushed it off as I just don't believe that I could get that lucky between cycles.  So I avoiding taking a test, thinking the previous IVF cycle has screwed up my cycle.  Plus I couldn't bear to see another negative result.  This morning when it still hadn't come, I had a glimmer of possibility grow, so I took the test, it was negative and I ugly cried all morning and went to work with my face all blotchy. Now I am going to raid the sweets cupboard and eat my emotions. 

On the way home from work, I of course, saw about 5 pregnant women and felt quite angry towards them. I found myself muttering, 'I bet they just sneezed and got pregnant'. I know I am being completely irrational.  However, I would never feel that way if one of you got pregnant!

Syd - that is really great news to read.  I genuinely feel excited for you.  Sending all positive thoughts your way.  It just has to work, I think we are all counting on it!

Butterfly - odd you got so many vials.  I bought my menopur in doses of 600 IU and 1200IU.  One 1200 IU vial would last me 6 days. 

Hello to all everyone else. x


----------



## Butterfly1976

Glitterbabe - really hoping that AF is not on its way  . It's just an added cruelty that early pregnancy symptoms are the same as ones for AF, as if this whole process wasn't difficult enough already.

Kris76 - my menopur is in 75 UI vials so need 6 for a 450 UI dose (was starting to think I was on the maximum or something) I just think its weird that I didn't some bigger bottles.

AFM - bleeding stopped yesterday so hopefully the stims are starting to work. Got to wait until Friday to find out what is happening which feels like forever lol.

xx


----------



## Glitterbabe2017

Good evening ladies

Sorry if I miss anyone, I only managed to write a few names from page 22 of this chat thread

Syd72, Kris76, Butterfly1976 and all other ladies whose alias I didn't get to write down - Thank you for your well wishes and kind words. Unfortunately it's Aunt Flo. I had a 10 min ugly cry again before bed last night and weirdly enough woke up this morning and I'm feeling ok. It might hit me hard again in a few days. It was great to be able to eat a double cheese half pounder with fries and also my favourite Ferrero Rocher without worrying. 

@Kris76 - the IVF meeting you went to sounds very interesting. Which clinic was it for or was it a general seminar with the experts?


----------



## LuluLimon

Lovely ladies!! 
Glitterbabe-try not to over think and just wait til test date. Its crap- Bodies are strange x
Kris glad the meet went well. Interesting info on pgs- were doing the embryoscope this time as it's supposed to give better indications. We'll see. Totally with you on those days when you see baby on board badges everywhere- I've been coached now to think "that'll be me soon enough" but only after the millisecond of hatescreaming in my head. Grrr...
Syd 10mm is rather luxuriant! Well done xx i"'ll take it the wine helped 😜 Glad all sounding rosier and on course for Sat!!
I'm on long again...although DR is shorter than before as on the pill.

Butterfly- so pleased AF has stopped for you! Thanks for making me feel not the only dozy person!  Friday will be here soon x

Afm- nothing on until tomorrow. We've geeked out on Thor Ragnarok- and stored up Vikings and Marvel films for DR'ing. And weaning myself off anything other than walking or slow cycling at the gym...


----------



## Syd72

Thanks for the support ladies.  Lulu, either that or the cucumber martini because... cucumber!

Glitter I'm so sorry, I'll never forget sobbing and sobbing after my last bfn from IVF.

Butterfly, hope the week passes quickly, for both of us 

Kris, so sorry for the bfn, it's heart breaking, especially when you've had reason for a little glimmer of hope.

Lulu, can't wait for Thor Ragnarok - was it good?  I've got it pre-ordered on itunes.


----------



## StrawberrySundae

Morning everyone   

Glitter I'm very sorry, I know how horrible it feels. Hope you find some inspiration & feel better soon!

Crazycats yes I found an Xmas chocolate stash I'd hidden at the weekend! I'm now on a strict elimination diet and have had a banging headache since yesterday!

Syd glad things have improved for you, all sounding exciting! How much longer are you in Athens?

Kris your talk sounded interesting- I'm waiting for pgs results before I can start my next cycle, hoping it won't take too long or have to test too many til we get a good one!

Butterfly roll on Friday for you!  

Lulu sounds like you've got a good stock of films to keep you busy! I'm getting back to some gentle exercise this week now after my hysto, sensible of you to wind down whilst keeping going.

Have a good week all x


----------



## Kris76

How are you feeling today Glitterbabe?  It is so harrowing.  As for the talk, it wasn't through my clinic, just through the IVF Babble (you can also follow them on instagram) meet up I went to.  The organisers...who have gone through successful IVF have many contacts.  They arranged for the Dr to speak, along with acupuncturists, nutritionists etc.  I have just asked my clinic if they screen.  I need to know more about this, especially if it can make such a difference.

Lulu - I am interested to hear how the embryoscope goes.  He also spoke of that, said it was very helpful to them to be able to view what happens to the cells during the night when they are not around. I pictured them running amok once all the embryologists leave for the day. 

Strawberry - You're getting it done!  Please let me know how the PGS goes.  Do you know if they are just screening some of the embryos or all?  What I didn't think to ask until I got home was do you pass on faulty chromosones to all or just some eggs?  If some, wouldn't they then need to screen all to sort them out?  He said if you only have one or two embryos they wont test, too risky to damage them.  I'd love to know how they explained the process to you. 

Thanks Syd.  How are you going to pass the week?  Not so bad being in Athens though!

I'm still waiting for AF to arrive.  Super late and I am worried as that has never happened before.  I feel as if I live in a state of hoping AF doesn't come for a BFP.  Then wishing for it to hurry up and arrive so I can start a new cycle. 

Have a good day ladies.


----------



## Glitterbabe2017

Hi ladies 

@Kris76 - have you started your cycle yet? 

Sorry I forgot to write down names of ladies to thanks. Pregnancy test confirmed BFN. I was ok as already had Aunt Flo and the test was just a formality. 

Apparently I will have a clinic consultation after their weekly meeting. Can anyone give advice on questions I could ask? I will be asking what the quality/grade of my eggs were. We have to fund the next cycle so need to know if it's worth using own eggs or better to use a donor egg. Only problem with that is I'm oriental, wonder if there are any oriental egg donors. 

May I ask how many cycles you lovely ladies have had and if any successes?


----------



## andrea75

*glitterbabe* I'm so sorry. My history isn't the best to give you hope I'm afraid. I conceived twin girls on my 1st cycle with my ex. Sadly lost them at 21wks &#128549; went on to have a further 2 fresh cycles and a FET with him but with no success. Have had 2 cycles with my current partner. Last one with zero fertilisation and advised to try donor eggs. We went against that and here we are

*kris* any sign of AF? Hope she's arrived &#129310;&#127996;

*strawberry* I'm struggling already. This last few days I've been picking at rubbish. I don't know what gets into me since this is so important &#128544;

Hi to everyone else xx


----------



## pauli

Hello Ladies,
Sorry for a bit of silence. I have been unwell with stomach bug and cold & cough. But finally after 2 weeks feeling more energetic! 

Syd, how did the transfer go today? Fingers crossed for BFP!!!! Did you transfer 2, and do you have anything in a freezer? Take it easy for until OTD. 

Glitterbabe, so sorry to hear about your BFN. I would ask what would they do differently if you had another cycle at the same clinic and if there are any tests you could do to make sure your body is ok. Sorry, cannot advise on DE... but I would think that there are donors from all different ethnical background.      

Lulu, how is knitting going? ;-) When are you starting the cycle? 

Butterfly, how was the scan on Friday? When is your EC? Hope these follicles are growing nicely.

Crazycats, hope you will find the strength to follow your diet. I know it is not easy. 

Kris, sorry to hear you had a rough time. Hoping it is BFP for you!!! My AF was always late following the IVF cycle. On last 2 IVF cycles (I did not have any transfer), I had my bleed exactly 11 days after EC which made the total length of the cycle less than 28 days. So the following cycle seemed compensating by being extra (up to 35 day). 

Strawberry, did you have the results of your PGS yet? Fingers crossed for many good embryos.  

I also had PGS on the last 2 cycles in 2017. Majority of the clinics wait until embryos reach a blastocyst stage, mostly day 5, but could be day 6 if they are a bit slower. The embryologist biopsies the embryos (removes a handful of the cells for testing from the outside layer) and freezes the embryos. With the good lab, latest technologies and an experienced embryologist, the risks are minimal. The samples are sent to a specialized lab, and the test results should be within 10 days - 2 weeks.  If there is a good embryo, the transfer can be arranged on the next cycle.

I had 3 blastocysts on first cycle and then 2 on the second cycle. Sadly all of them were aneuploid (chromosomal abnormalities) so no transfer.  Unfortunately for ladies over 40 years old, 90% of the eggs are chormosomally abnormal and therefore it seems that on average only 1 in 10 blastocysts is "normal" or euploid and suitable for transfer.

PGS is a very good diagnostic technique when you have a good number of embryos. But it is not 100%. There are a few documented cases (not many) when aneuploid embryos were transferred and resulted in healthy babies. All embryos have normal and abnormal cells. As we get older the proportion of the abnormal cells is higher. As the cells tested are removed from the outside layer of the embryo, the 'middle' part of the embryo could be actually fine and if embryo implants, it can "correct" itself by getting rid of the abnormal cells in the outside layer. There is not enough research into this. 

So I am torn if to do PGS or not on our last OE cycle. I might change my mind later on, but at the moment, if I am lucky to have any blastocysts at all, I will just transfer them all and hope for a miracle ;-)      

I finally had received a protocol from my clinic. I had to go for a scan between day 20 - 26 to check for cysts and polyps before starting the treatment. Scan today showed all fine but I already have a lead follicle of 10mm while others are tiny! This is day 24 of the cycle. Not sure what is happening but it is not a good place to be ahead of the IVF cycle. So thinking to delay one more month. Did anybody have a similar experience? 

Have a good weekend everyone 
xx


----------



## Syd72

Hi Pauli, sorry, no experience of that so can’t help, are they saying you haven’t ovulated this month.

Transfer was fine thanks, 2 x AA expanding blasts. Slightly worryingly it’s looking like nothing to freeze, given the donor is 25 that points to sperm problems we weren’t aware of. Worries me slightly regarding the two that were put back but trying to stay positive.  I’m flying back tomorrow but stopping in Abu Dhabi, combination of wanting a few days of relaxation in the sun and also wanting to split up the flights since I can’t take my usual tranquilizer.

Glitter, this was my second cycle, first with donor eggs. No baby yet, several natural pregnancies but none that developed further than 5 weeks.

Kris, any sign of af yet?


----------



## pauli

Congrats Syd! If you have twins, you do not need anything in the freezer  Your stop in Abu Dhabi sounds like a perfect start to your 2ww. Enjoy 😎

I have ovulated on the right ovary, sonographer saw corpus luteum. The lead collide is on the left ovary. I wait one cycle and just go for it regardless.


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Hope everyone is doing OK today.

Glitterbabe - hope your meeting goes well and your clinic have some positive feedback for you x

Syd - congratulations on being PUPO sounds like 2 fab embies in there x

AFM - scan on Friday showed 7 follicles which I was a bit disappointed with as it doesn't seem like very many to me. Sizes were from 9mm to 15mm and apparently I have a good lining so next scan is tomorrow morning to see if ready to trigger or if I need more stims (I will have used my 12 days worth after tonight). I'm hoping there may be a couple more follicles to see in the morning but that may be wishful thinking. 

Love to everyone xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Syd- congrats on being PUPO- the 2 view sound great quality so hopefully that'll be ok. Don't worry about anything else other then those two snuggling in tight to your nest!
Glitterbabe- very sorry about your BFN. I'd be asking if they think anything else is out of balance? Worth trying steroids like prednisolone? Doing immunes testing? Different protocol?  We were lucky and our first IVF worked- none of the 3 other blasts we had stuck though...I'd gotten pg naturally too but all ended in MC's.
Hi crazycats- I've had a bit of a junky food week- I don't crave cake often, but DH had to buy a fruit loaf for me on Friday and I ate it all!
Pauli- glad your better now. I've it's that time of year... Do you think you'll wait another month or see how it goes?
Kris- hope AF arrived. I have a fun image o our embryos sneaking out of their dosages to party!!
Butterfly- quality is what matters and with loads it just more likely to have lots that don't get to blast. Just believe one of those is the good one x
I start Buserelin and dexamethasone tomorrow...then my first intralipids Tuesday. I'm dreading the possibility of bad sleep... My knitting has yet to be started as I discovered a new trilogy by one of my old favourite authors I've just finished. 

Hi to everyone else..hope it's a good week!


----------



## Kris76

Hi Ladies

Quick update, it finally came last week at 31 days.  I'm usually a 25 days cycle. Off I went to collect my drugs and hand over my credit card.  This time I'm on Menopur, Gonal F and as of today Cetrotide. Had my follow up scan today, 12 follicles on my left ovary, however, only 6 so far are growing, the other 6 are 10mm or below.  I still have a week before egg collection so hopefully some of the small ones will catch up.  None on my right, but my follicles have died off because of the dermoid cyst I had a couple of years ago.  I'm annoyed as my consultant at the time, after my op to remove it, told me I was good as new.  He didn't mention at all, that the cyst cut off the blood flow and therefore my follicles died off. I wouldn't have waited so long and I would have gone straight to IVF back then. It was only when I started IVF last year that I was told by the clinic the cyst was the cause of the lack of follicles on my right ovary. I had absolutely no idea. Finding it hard to get past that  
So that's where I'm at. 

Lulu - good luck with the meds.  How have they been going so far? Which trilogy did you start?

Syd - congrats on the transfer.  Fingers and toes are crossed that all goes well.  Enjoy Abu Dhabi. 

Pauli - Sorry to hear about your PGS results.  I did speak to the nurse last week about it.  She advised me not to test.  That finding the embryos with abnormalities can just be so devastating that it's almost best not to know. I do remember now, a consultant I heard speak to at the Fertility Show I went to last year spoke of a couple who screened on each cycle.  He said that 3 cycles in and they got abnormalities on all their embryos, so no transfer.  On the 4th cycle, again, abnormalities, the couple were fed up and instructed the clinic to transfer anyway.  It resulted in a healthy baby.  So perhaps next time don't test, to me it seems like you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by not testing. However, it is something that I do worry about (one of the many things I worry about!).  I hope your follicles have continued grow.  I am pretty much willing mine to grow. 

Glitterbabe - How did your consultation go?  Do you think you will try with your OE again or go the donor route?  I would hope that there are donors from all different backgrounds.  I'm really struggling with the possibility of using donor eggs.  I can't imagine my life childless, at the same time I can't get my head around a baby only being related to my OH and not me.  I feel tormented. 

Butterfly - How did your scan go, any more growth?  Great that the lining is good, which is very important. 

Crazycats - My God, I am so sorry to read that you MC at 21 weeks. How horrific. Where are you at now?  I hear you about picking at rubbish.  I just had a salad and poached salmon for lunch, but followed it up with chocolate. I'm an emotional eater and my emotions taste yum!

Love to all. x


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Kris76 - So glad that AF has finally arrived for you. It's so mad that we spend months TTC and not wanting to see AF but then can't wait for it so we can move forward with treatment. So sorry to hear about the damage from your cyst, but it sounds like lefty is doing it's best for you x

Lulu - Happy to hear that you've started on the drugs, it does seem to be a long cycle for you Hun. Which books were you reading? I love a good trilogy it always feels a bit sad to finish a good book, and so nice when there are more that follow on afterwards. After my little girl was stillborn I read all 15 of Katherine Kerr's fantasy books, they really helped me to escape from reality a little bit x

AFM - scan went well today, 7 good size follicles smallest 18mm biggest 22mm (most were 21/22) so last buserelin and trigger injection tonight, EC booked for 10am Wednesday. It's good to be moving forwards but there seems such a long way to go  

Love to all xx


----------



## miamiamo

Butterfly1976 - happy to read good news, good luck xx


----------



## Kris76

Hi all

Butterfly - I know!  I was saying that a friend last week.  I'm either hoping it doesn't come or desperately want it to arrive. Your follicles sound just ripe.  7 good sized follicles, I'd be very happy with that. I had to go back to the clinic today as my LH spiked yesterday (I'm on a more aggressive protocol this round).  I had to take a double dose of Cetrotide to help stop early ovulation.  Had another scan and blood test today, Ill know later today if it worked.  I would hate to waste this cycle.  Best of luck Butterfly with the transfer on Wednesday.  Will be sending positive thoughts your way.  

A colleague has just told me she is pregnant.  She wasn't trying of course, just happened.  I don't get how it can be so easy for some    Makes me bonkers. 

I just baked a batch of brownies to help take my mind of things...including work.  I'll have to give them all away or I will plough through them. 

x


----------



## LuluLimon

Butterfly loss of good luck for EC tomorrow! We'll be thinking of you and some magic dust to get amazing embies!
Kris glad AF has shown up! It must be nice to be on protocol now x what's the cetrocide? I've not heard of that one?

I've been reading Robin Hobbs last trilogy Fool&The Assassin. Her 4th trilogy in that works- the big fantasy geek me! kris- its great escapism- a respite when times are Stressy! Dragons/magic? tick! I read all the others before R arrived and haven't read much since then..so it's nice to be reading again. I'm now catching up on my ScandiNoir murder mysteries- my other favourite genre!
aFM day 2 of DR. The steroids made my sleep crappy yesterday, but at least the intralipids went ok- bit odd, like having cold glue into your arm! My period has managed to breakthrough a few days early- bang on 31 days but clinic said it's ok as I'm meant to bleed this week again.
It's been a long start to the cycle but finally here.
We also have a birthday this weekend so lots of manic baking.
Love to all x Lulu


----------



## Kris76

Lulu - The Cetrotide helps to stop me from ovulating too early.  You sound like you have been through the wars.  Why the steroids and intralipids? God, I hope we all get something out of this nightmare. 

I'm an avid reader, haven't heard of Robin Hobbs though.  I love me some escapism. I'll have to look her up. I do loooovvveeee scandi noir books and TV.  Between being busy with work and stressing about my cycle, I haven't had much of a chance to read.  The birthday prep will be a great distraction.  Not yours is it?
x


----------



## LuluLimon

Hi Kris- do look her up- she has a bunch of stuff- the Farseer trilogy to start with, then the Fools Trilogy and Rain Wild Chronicles. A great read! All on Kindle too.
Ah ok - I had the opposite issue with ovulation! My new drugs are a result of immunes testing following our 3 failed FETs...I had clotting issues before but now on clexane soon as well as aspirin then steroids and intralipids cos my NK cells tested high! I don't know what they were before- obviously not too high as it worked! Some research I read said a male pregnancy could change balance- so sods law knowing me that's what happened.
Not mine- LO is 3 this weekend. Time has flown😯
I really hope it's all worth it for all of us xx Dare to dream big!


----------



## Glitterbabe2017

Hi Kris76

Glad to hear all is on track with you. I feel exactly the same as you do about DE. I'm not exactly jumping at the idea but I really don't see myself childless. The clinic called today after their weekly meeting to review all clients. A nurse called me with an update as I asked about my egg quality and all that was said was I had average eggs. I knew that from my age so what she told me was a bit vague. From some of the chats I read thought they grade eggs, maybe different systems for different clinics. The nurse was unable to provide more information so said I could book an appointment to see one of the Dr/consultants who will go through the failed cycle with me. I thought I was getting an appointment anyway, tgatsxwhat I was told in the email. 

So I went with it and made an appointment for Mon 12th Feb.


----------



## Kris76

I will do Lulu.  Love my kindle.  I keep downloading books on it and haven't had a chance to get around to reading them. 
Oh I see.  Well I am glad you are getting it sorted out.  I did have an immunology test too.  When I was first at the ARGC...I didn't end up doing a cycle with them.  They are bat **** crazy over there. Didn't know about a male pregnancy changing the balance. 
3 is such a sweet age.  That will be a really nice distraction.  I wish I could hit the gin!

Glitterbabe - I am glad you have a follow up appointment, it's necessary, even if it just makes you feel back in control about things.  I know what you are saying, as I read of women talking about egg grading.  However, my clinic didn't offer to give me a grading and I didn't ask....too scared of the answer I guess. The only way I knew I had a top quality embryo last cycle, was that I bumped into my consultant on transfer day and he went and checked and told me.  Still didn't work. I hope you get some clarification on the 12th.  I had a follow up appointment, unfortunately, they really couldn't offer me any explanation as to why it didn't work.  They have no idea why. Just winging it. 
Yes, tough decisions about DE.  The only thing I keep telling myself is that, I can't imagine a single woman who has done it has ever said they regret it. A friend of mines sister did DE (from her sister-in-law!) and she now has a gorgeous little girl.  Hmmm maybe I should have a conversation with one of my 3 sister-in-laws.

Syd - Perhaps you can offer some advice?


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Well I had egg collection this morning and got 7 eggs. It's seems like an unbearable wait until tomorrow to find out how many have fertilized, followed by more painful waiting to see if any get to day 5, then the dreaded 2ww! 

Lulu - I've heard of Robin Hobbs but not read any of her books, but if there's dragons and magic I'm there! My favourite author is David Eddings, but also love Katherine Kerr and Terry Brooks. Anything fantasy, it's the best kind of escapism.

Hope everyone is doing OK


----------



## Kris76

Hi all

Butterfly - that is an incredible result!  An egg from each follicle then.  Very impressive.  Last collection more than half of my follicles were empty.  I worry it will be the same again this time.  I'm probably due for EC on Monday. 
Yes, the wait for the call from the embryologist is excruciating.  I was a wreak last time. However, you should be pretty confident with 7 eggs.  Amazing, that's really good news.  
I hope you manage to get some sleep tonight. 

Hope everyone else is doing well. 
x


----------



## LuluLimon

Butterfly glad our got your 7 and lots of sparkly fertilisation dust to them!!
The books with the Fool and FitzChivalry and the better ones but I've enjoyed them all. Fantasy rocks!
Kris- when will you hear of EC is Monday?

I've had another bad nights sleep but Dr wants me to keep trying for a few more days....it was a loop day then the tube got suspended so nearly 2hrs to get home...
Grrr! 
Here's to sweet dreams! X


----------



## Kris76

Hi Lulu, I have a scan and blood test tomorrow morning, so I guess I will have a better idea then. 
Not great about the lack of sleep.  I have sleephones (flat speakers in a headband) so I listen to relaxation sleep apps and they are comfortable to wear and sleep in...also I don't disturb my OH.  Perhaps try some sleep apps?
Can't help you with the tube though!  I now mainly work from home so thankfully I avoid the tube most days. 

OH is out playing poker, so bath time for me with decaffeinated tea...wish it were a stiff drink!  It's much needed. 

Have a good night.


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Embryologist called this morning and the news wasn't great. Of the 7 eggs, 6 were mature and only 3 have fertilized normally. When I asked she said that all 6 did fertilize but 3 did so abnormally which she said looks to be an egg issue due to my age. 

I'm pretty gutted as I was hoping for 4 or 5 to fertilize and if half the eggs were abnormal on day 1, I don't hold out much hope that the remaining 3 will get to day 5. I had a bit of cry about it and am feeling better now. We did pay for a multi cycle so have another go lined up which definitely helps. Also if its going to fail I'd rather know before transfer and save myself the 2WW.

The clinic will update me again Sunday morning which seems a really long time to wait, I guess if they call before that it can only be with bad news.

Kris - Hope your scan went well and that you are ready for EC on Monday.

xx


----------



## Kris76

Hi Butterfly, I was thinking of you today.  I completely understand your disappointment.  We wish that they could all fertilise.  However, 3 is still good.  3 is a chance. 
My last cycle, I only got 1 to fertilise from 4 eggs because of abnormalities.  I thought there is no way that 1 will make it but it did and it was a really good grade.  Again, 3 is still a good chance. I've been reading studies which have shown there is very little difference in success rates, putting them back at 3 days opposed to 5 days.  Just keep sending those 3 all your best thoughts.  Sunday does seem like a long wait, however, I imagine they are waiting to see if they will multiple to 8 cells. 

You are right, it is an age issue.  There is nothing that we can do to change that. So, we need to try and focus on being really happy with what we can get.  I think you have done really well.  To even get 7 eggs in the first place is amazing.  We are all so hard on ourselves.  For now, be kind to yourself, you have done the best that you can for this cycle and it is a good result so far.  We only need one. 

I had my scan and another blood test today.  The left ovary is working hard, 12 follicles with 6 being a good size and 2 or 3 of them still need a couple of days to get to size. They now think that I will be ready for EC on Saturday.  Picked up my trigger injections.  I have 5 injections to take tonight!!  It is possible it may get pushed out to Monday, they will call me tonight if that's the case.  I'm in the same boat Butterfly my eggs have abnormalities because of my age and it's possible that half my follicles will be empty again.  Ill be grateful anything I can get. My OHs sperm results are off the charts, so at least I only have one thing to worry about. 

I really hope your embryo's keep multiplying successfully.  Best of luck to everyone!

xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Butterfly- I understand your disappointed- but 3 still is in the game. Read it as a positive, 50% of your mature eggs fertilised! That's an awesome result woman!! Do for proud -You only need one for a baby and what if one of them is the super-charged baby? Unfortunately it's our age, regardless of how well we look after ourselves and how many follicles we have. Stay positive for those 3 cos there is every chance that one of them will end in a bfp xx I'm going to be militant for you to be positive for those lovely shiny embies growing and running amok when the lights are out!
Big hugs xxxx 

Kris- well you've sort of got a date for EC and the trigger injections! Sending lots of relaxing and growing vibes for those follicles X

I slept better last night- it might have been the melatonin that I took on recommendation- but I feel so much better! I work at home too Kris, just occasionally head into town and it would just be that day the tube was screwed. Scan a week today...ho-hum..

Keep us posted both x


----------



## Kris76

Hi Lulu, glad to hear the melatonin worked.  Getting decent sleep helps. You have a scan in a week?  Good luck.  

Thanks.  I just want it over and done with now. Also, I'm thinking whether i should wax my legs before EC!


----------



## pauli

Hello girls, the conversation is moving fast, tying to catch up! Looks like you all are into the fantasy books. I love reading too, and always make sure I have something to read on my Kindle when traveling (leisure or work related).    

Butterfly, as other girls said, 3 is a good number and you only need 1!!! Fingers crossed that the golden egg is one of them. But I understand your disappointment, I have been through it too. Are you planning to do a transfer on Sunday once you hear from the clinic? 

Kris, good luck with your trigger injections (if you are doing them tonight). How many units are you taking? Hope the EC goes well on Saturday and no empty follicles! Just nice mature good quality eggs. 

Lulu, good that melatonin is helping with the sleep. I purchased it on the last cycle but did not end up taking any (I did not take steroids so my sleep was ok). Hope DR is going well, how many days do you have to DR before starting stimms? 

AFM I am going to sit out the cycle in February and try in March. I asked the clinic what they did not like on my scan, waiting to hear. And, Kris, not planning to do PGS this time round. Will transfer if we are lucky to have any embryos.    

Girls, did you have saline sonogram or HSG? I never had it done so wondering if you can recommend a clinic and if you know the costs. 

Good evening to everyone 
xx


----------



## Kris76

Hi Pauli, hope you've been well?  Thanks, yes, doing trigger injections at 23.00.  I've done my usual 3 half an hour ago.  My trigger is 250mcg of Ovitrelle and 0.5ml of Suprecur.  I'm nervous and excited for Saturday. Its like blowing on dice and rolling it. 

Helps to have a bit of a break between cycles.  Its hard going. I hope your scan is ok.  I haven't had either, I actually had to google what they were. However, as I did, a price list at King's College Hospital came up and they do it for £400 each.  Fertility treatment is just like weddings, as soon as you mention either, prices just seem to sky rocket. 
x


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Thank you for the kind words  . I don't think I would be so worried if my clinic weren't insisting that they have to get to day 5 which is their new policy. From what I've read on here most ladies with only a few embies get a 2 or 3 day transfer and there is a lot of talk about it being the best place for them to be etc. My clinic don't hold with that, they say that a day 2 or 3 embie wouldn't naturally be in the uterus and don't now normally do early transfers.

All I can do is hope that one makes it until Monday, the waiting is just torture, but your support has really helped me to feel a bit more positive. 

Lulu - made me laugh about the embies getting up to stuff when the lights are out   As part of our package we get time lapse photography of their development, wonder if it would be worth watching  

Pauli - phone call with update should be Sunday, ET Monday if there are any still in the running. Hope you get some answers from your scan x

Kris - You are so right, there is just so much pressure and its mainly from myself   I just wish we could afford to keep trying for as many cycles as it needed but sadly we can only afford one more after this. Hope you get to trigger tonight, 5 injections?? I thought doing 2 a night was bad enough!


----------



## Kris76

Hi Butterfly - wow, I have never heard of a clinic that has such a policy.  I had a top grade embryo last cycle and they put that back on day 3 after it had multiplied to 8 cells as they thought that is the best place for it to be rather than wait til day 5.  I guess they all have their own opinions on what is best.  However, that is a harsh policy.  Lets just hope they all make it to day 5.  Try and stay distracted as much as possible...I won't dare tell you to relax. 
Hopefully, you wont need to do anymore rounds after this one. 3 is still very possible to get a blastocyst. 

I'm going in 7am tomorrow.  I'm a nervous wreck.  Such fear there will be no or very few eggs. I'm going to wax my legs now and not frighten the Drs doing the collection. 

xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Pauli- I had a HSG done at Portland Hospital under Sara Matthews. I think £500 but that was 4/5yrs ago.
Butterfly- we are getting similar or at least embryoscope. I hope mischief making
I'm really hoping we all get some blasts x


----------



## LuluLimon

Kris- masses of good wishes for tomorrow! I know what you mean iro leg wax- I'm trying to plan mine so I don't look like a wholly mammoth😋


----------



## Syd72

Hi all, trying to catch up on everything that's been happening.

Kris, best of luck today.  I hear you on the leg waxing, failed miserably before this current round   That is so frustrating about the consultant not giving you the full story, we are totally in the hands of the professionals and it's so upsetting.  I had a consult for an enormous fibroid about 3 years ago and she said it wasn't worth removing it and besides, at my age (42 at the time) I wasn't likely to get pregnant.  I finally went for a second opinion a year later, he removed it within about 6 weeks and I fell pregnant naturally for the first time in my life two months later, which was the first month I was allowed to try after the op.  I can't help thinking that if she'd removed it then or I'd gone for a second opinion straight away I would have had younger eggs and perhaps a better chance...

Butterfly, I completely understand your disappointment but 3 isn't bad, not once we're in our 40s.  The wait between calls does seem to go on together, really hoping you get good news tomorrow.

Thanks lulu.  That's funny you say that about the intralipids, I had them for the first time just before my transfer and it felt warm going in   Hope you're sleeping better.

Pauli, I haven't had either so can't help I'm afraid.  I think it's a good idea to have a month off, good month to pick too as its such a short one, it'll fly by.

Glitter, I don't think I've come across grading eggs before, only grading embryos or is that what you meant?  Hopefully they'll be able to give you some helpful feedback at your appointment.

Apologies to anyone I've missed, suddenly it seems all go on here.

I've tested already, ridiculously early, bfn.  Trying hard not to feel downheartened but that combined with complete lack of any symptoms is making me feel a bit low, especially as I don't think my OH will consider another round.  With natural pregnancies, the ones that have stuck around for a few weeks, I've always gotten my bfp pretty early.


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Geez Syd, I’m furious for you. How irresponsible of the consultant. They are playing with peoples lives.  Equally, how incredible that you were able to fall pregnant so quickly. I’m so glad to hear that you had a successful pregnancy at 42. Gives us hope. 
I also understand the pull to test early. My fingers are crossed that when it’s time to check it will be positive. Such a nerve wracking time. 

I had my EC today...hair free. They managed to get 7 eggs from my left ovary. Again, making me angry of how different things could’ve been if I had a right working ovary too. Regardless, I’m pleased with that. Whether they are any good is another matter. I’m trying not worry, at this stage all I can hope is that they are good and will fertilise. I’m willing it to happen. I’ll know once the embryologist calls tomorrow.  It would great to have some evidence if the acupuncture has made a difference. Last cycle with no acupuncture I got 4 eggs. 

I’m now hauled up on the couch watching The Crown. My OH bought me delicious pastries from Dominique Ansel Bakery, he went off to the football, which suits as I love my ‘me time’. 

I hope everyone else is doing well. X


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Kris - Congratulations, 7 eggs from just one ovary if just great  

Hope you get good news in the morning xxx


----------



## Syd72

Thanks Kris, it wasn’t a succsssful pregnancy sadly, blighted ovum. congratulations on 7 eggs, that’s fab! I’m totally with you on “me time”, love it  Looking forward to your update.


----------



## StrawberrySundae

Hi Everyone, not been on here for a while, there seems to be lots happening at the moment.

Syd I really hope you get a good result this week   Was wondering how you were getting on. Wishing you good luck.

Butterfly good luck also for your embies!   I hope you get to transfer at least one.

Kris how have you got on with your eggs? That's a great amount from one ovary. I hope they did well fertilising.

Lulu I appreciated the book recommendations- might have to hunt those out! Do they have happy endings?! I find melatonin really helpful, especially in winter!

Pauli hope all goes well in March, should be much more springlike by then  

Glitter don't worry about average looking eggs/embryos, it's what's inside them that matters - I've had some AA eggs and mc or bfn whereas I've heard of less good looking eggs working, so all a bit random!

AFM I'm recovering from a wisdom tooth extraction with sedation, so on top of the strong antibiotics prescribed by Locus Medicus (did some of their 'Hidden C' tests) and my elimination diet (had to cut it short as I was so hungry! Weight loss will have to wait yet again..) I'm feeling quite ropey this weekend   Got through our pgs testing though so can have a transfer at some point now. My clinic told to take the BCP, hope I'm not on it for too long   My clinic don't do intralipids so I'm wondering if I should contact anywhere else for them or whether to bother? Such a lot to think about!

Have a lovely rest of weekend ladies   xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Kris congrats on getting 7 eggs- really hope you get a few embies xx

Syd hope you are feeling good and you Butterfly too x
Strawberry- wisdom teeth extraction is quite    painful! I was on BCP from my last period - stopped it this week, so 32 days in total.
Depending where you are I think Healthcare at Home can do intralipids- at least that's what ZW informed me. I think it is maybe worth it- I don't know as never did it before, but as there re no side effects I thought no harm x

I'm not sure happy endings is the right for my final Robin Hobb book- it was a good one and wrapped up things. 

I've overeaten cake this weekend. We overordered for the birthday party so I've dropping it off to our neighbours.

We had a few, unknowing, insensitive comments at DS's party about "oh isn't it time you got on and had another- he's going to be lonely". I am just astounded by some people's lack of tact. I sometimes wish "gen.pop." as call them could have a day or two in our shoes and the long struggle we go through. I'd love to just have sex and that be enough.  And I say that knowing I am immensely lucky for what we have, but it still hurts.

Sorry for my rant. Af has come and I feel soon emotional.
Thank you all for being here- 😘


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Oh I'm so sorry to hear Syd.  It is positive that you were able to get pregnant naturally.  

Strawberry, wisdom teeth extraction, yikes.  Good luck with the recovery. 

How are yours coming along Butterfly?

I got a call from the embryologist today and amazingly she said that all 7 have fertilised. I was not expecting that considering I only got 1 last cycle. The difference between now and then was I did acupuncture on this cycle.  I also did take Gonal F along with menopur.  We'll see how they develop.  I am currently booked in for a 3 day transfer...Tuesday.  She said they will make a call on Tuesday morning to see if they push it to 5 days.  It will be dependent on how many survive til Tuesday.  My fingers are crossed.  However, this good news was completely overshadowed by the news today that my dear 93 grandma fell and she has a suspected broken hip and arm.  She's still in hospital and I don't have a result yet.  I spent the day sobbing and feeling sick to my stomach that I can't be with her.  We are incredibly close, as she raised me from a baby. My family are all in Melbourne. I was scrambling to book a flight home to Melbourne for next Monday.  I would've flown out tomorrow, but of course, I have to be here for transfer this week.  As I'm not sure if it will be Tuesday or Thursday.  I did contemplate telling my clinic to freeze the embryos so I can fly out this week. I'm not sure if I will be jeopardising my chances?  

I'm all over the place today.  Stomach cramps from worrying about her.  I know I have to stay calm this week for transfer.  That's where I am at. 

I hope everyone is well. 
x


----------



## Syd72

Kris, that's great news about the fertilisation rate but so sorry that your grandma had a fall, how awful.  I don't know much about fet's other than nowadays they're supposed to have pretty much the same success rate as fresh so maybe it's worth a conversation with the clinic?  You also don't want to be stressed and running around like a mad thing around transfer.  Really hope your grandma is ok, I've sadly lost all of my grandparents now but they were all so important to me x

Lulu, rant away!  I get so fed up with other people's insensitive comments.  The only advantage of being my age is people just assume I'm not interested in having children and don't say anything.

Hi Strawberry, thank you.  Sadly I got another bfn this morning, 2 days until test day.  There's still a slim chance but I'm pretty sure at 9dp5dt it would be showing by now.    Sorry you're having a rough weekend   Wisdom teeth extraction, yuck!  I've never had to have that done thank goodness.  I had intralipids at Serum just before my transfer but I know so little about them really.  Hope you're feeling better today.

As I mentioned above, bfn this morning.  Will test on Wednesday but not at all hopeful.  I really don't know what next steps will be, I think my OH is going to say enough, let's draw a line.  Even if he agrees to try again I don't know how to improve our chances, his sperm tests always come back ok and his dna fragmentation done at Serum last year was fine but given the trouble I've had with my eggs and now with a young, proven donor and the fact that the issues seem to start after day 3 there clearly is an issue.  He does have a child but that was 12 years ago.  We still have some of his sperm frozen at the clinic and would have to use that, there's no way he can get over to Greece for a fresh sample between now and the summer and even if he could, I don't think it would be worth it.  He smokes, he drinks (not a lot but a couple of glasses of wine or a beer pretty much every night) he's hugely stressed for a variety of reasons that aren't going away any time soon and he's crap with vitamins so he won't do the sperm improvement protocol.  Double donor is definitely not an option.  Money isn't an issue as we're covered with health insurance, just have the expensive flights and the accommodation to deal with which is nothing compared to ivf costs.  I just don't know if it's worth it just to use the same suspect sperm...  

Anyway, sorry, I'm rambling.  Still trying to process everything.  Hope everyone else is ok.


----------



## Kris76

Oh no Syd, I'm gutted to hear.  I really hope there is a chance that it can be wrong.  It is still a bit early. I hope your OH can see how much you want this and is willing to try again.  So lucky you are covered by insurance, costing us a fortune.  I really think it is worth another go with DE.  Great that your OHs DNA is good but what does ok mean in terms of his sperm result?  Have the clinic given you any advice if it could possibly be that?  I would probably ask that of the clinic first so you know what the best next step is and if it is worth using it again. 
Shame about the stress, as it can be such a factor on quality.  I believe that it impacted my first cycle.  I was a basket case all the way through it. My OH did give up caffeine, alcohol and took vitamins, even though it is all on my side and not his. Perhaps you can get your OH to give up one of the vices, preferably the smoking.  I really hope it works out for you and you get to have another go if this definitely is a BFN. 

Lulu - I hear you about the insensitivity of people. It completely baffles me. We used to get a lot of 'tick tock, tick tock', when are you two going to have children...right after, when are you two going to get married. It would do my head in.  It is so rude of people, they have no idea what is happening behind closed doors. Like Syd, now people just assume after 11 years together and our age that we don't want children.  What is it anyone else's business how many children you do and don't have. 

I heard this morning that my gran has a broken arm and thankfully, a badly bruised him, not broken.  I feel so relieved.  She doesn't want me fussing, however, my flight is booked and I am flying out next Monday.  It just means that I wait out my 2 week period post transfer in Melbourne in the summertime. So hopefully, that will be a positive thing.  Actually get some vitamin D from the sun rather than pills, spend time with my family, see my 10 nieces and nephews and go to the beach.  I will have to work remotely, as I am currently very busy, However, surely, that is a wining combination for success!!!  At the very least, I will be distracted for 2 weeks and won't be agonising every moment of the day over what is happening and if it's 'sticking'. 

Butterfly - do you have an update on your 3? I really hope they have progressed to Blastocyst.  They should have a live feed to the embryos in the clinic so we can check in on them and see how they are going.  I am desperate to call the clinic to see what is happening.  

Love to everyone else.


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Kris - Sorry to hear about your gran's fall but glad she hasn't broken her hip, and wow Melbourne sounds like a fab way to spend the TTW!

AFM - Had two blastocysts transfered this morning, one grade B, one grade C. The other one was a bit behind the best 2 and sadly wasn't suitable to freeze but I'm just so grateful to have 2 on board   Really could not ask for more from just 3 fertilized eggs.

Now just have to survive the dreaded 2WW.

Love and baby dust to all you wonderful ladies xxx


----------



## Kris76

That's amazing Butterfly!!  What wonderful news.  I am so happy for you and that two made it for transfer.  They are little fighters.  Its a tough time, as it is so full of hope and dread at the same time. 

Yes, I am now very much looking forward to my TTW.  Ill find out tomorrow morning how many have survived, if they will transfer any tomorrow afternoon or push for blastocyst.  I am so hoping that I have enough to keep going to Thursday. Another sleepless night I think. 

Such great news, that cheered me up. Fingers and toes are crossed. 

xx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Thanks Kris, such a relief to be PUPO  

You are right this whole process is so tough, it's just one hurdle after another. 

I really hope you get some good news tomorrow   xxx


----------



## Syd72

Butterfly, that's great news, congratulations!  When is OTD?

Kris, what a way to spend the tww   Looking forward to an update later.

Turns out I've done my OH a huge disservice and the only reason he's talked about stopping is because he finds the disappointment so hard to deal with.  No matter how much I try to educate him, he still keeps thinking that IVF has about a 90% chance of working every time and 100% chance with donor eggs!  So if tomorrow is also a bfn we'll go again.  I emailed Penny yesterday and she says there's really nothing else we can do - his tests are all fine (Kris, it's his sperm dna fragmentation test that was good, rather than his actual dna), my womb looked perfect with the hysto in December and my lining was perfect, the donor was young and proven.  Seems crazy just to try the same thing again and hope for a different outcome but I don't think there are any other options.


----------



## LuluLimon

Butterfly - congrats on PUPO!! Hopefully at least one will get all snuggly in there xx
Kris- sorry about your gran- it's lovely our can head and see her. I'm sure the Oz sun will be great to see out the 2ww! Hope you had good news this morning x

Syd- it's not long to go now x  It's good OH is happy to have another go- I think a load of people just assume it will work, even though with all the variables looking good it can still be a "wtf!!" sort of cycle. X But I'm hanging out for a bfp for you- we need some 2018 babies here!!
Afm- my sleep better, particularly once BCP out of my system. AF is still here and scan on Thurs where hopefully I can start stimming!


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Syd, I completely understand the sentiment of your OH, the disappointment is crushing.  Sorry, I hope it didn't come across that I looked badly upon him, it was not what I was thinking at all.  Ha, I love your OH's stats!  I sometimes think like that too, even though I know better, especially when told that chances with DE are so much higher. Unfortunately, there are no guarantees in this business! 

Great news that your womb and lining are both perfect.  One thing not to have to worry about.  Yes, I know what you mean, we keeping doing the same thing and expect a different outcome.  I think the good news is, that is very possible. If egg collection can vary cycle to cycle why can't transfer success? 

Lulu, all seems to be coming along nicely with you.  I hope you can start stimming very soon. 

Butterfly, another day down. 

AFM, I had a terrible nights sleep.  I dreamt that the clinic called to say that only 1 of the 7 fertilized egg made it to day 3.  I woke up at 4am and that was that for me. I was a wreck.  However, fortunately that was not the case when the embryologist called this morning.  He advised that all 7 are still going strong and are all A grade.  He said that they were all so equally good that he wouldn't be able to choose between them for transfer.  I was so shocked that my whole body was shaking. They are going to push it to blastocyst and some should show up as stronger than others. I am now booked in for transfer on Thursday morning. Of course, I'm delighted but I hope they are not abnormal.  I am not going to do PGS testing, it is so expensive, the flight to Melbourne cost enough! Positive so far, but still have a way to go so I'm keeping a lid on it. 

I wish someone had told me to freeze my eggs 10 years ago. I was not ready to have children then but at least I would've had much better stats now. This is what they should be teaching in schools not algebra, never used that again! 

Super busy with work, however, I find myself surfing the net for pretty interiors.  Must get back to work!

Have a good day. xx


----------



## Syd72

Kris, you didn’t come across that way at all  Fab news on your embies!


----------



## Butterfly1976

Kris - Wow sounds like you've got some fab embies growing there, should be able to get some good quality blasts from 7 that are top grade at day 3. Got everything crossed for you xxx

Syd - Glad that your OH is up for another round after this, it does take the pressure off a bit knowing you have another try lined up. Having said that of course I'm really hoping that you don't need it and tomorrow brings you the BFP that you deserve xx

Lulu - So happy that things are moving forward for you, hope you get to start stimming soon.

AFM - OTD is 18th Feb which feels about 10 years away at the moment. Just hope one of them beds in, keep thinking come on guys it's a good hotel, honest!   I just wish there was a way to know what was going on in there. 

Love and baby dust


----------



## LuluLimon

Kris- that's fab news on the embies! Definitely going chances of nice blasts!!
I hear you about education- all the fuss on DON'T get pregnant, not an iota on "hey you know some of you might have fertility issues and leaving it til your mid 30's might not be the best option"- I wonder if they so something in PSHE or whatever it is now days??
Butterfly- baby dust mocktails all round!!
X


----------



## StrawberrySundae

My clinic has told me today they're not giving me steroids as recent research from Madrid shows nk cells don't affect implantation   I feel totally and utterly confused after being told last month (somewhere else) I had extremely high levels of them & they're usually treated with steroids or expensive LIT . So much conflicting advice everywhere, feel exhausted! Plus it turns out my FET will be double the price of last one so can't have my transfer for even longer now   I'm on the BCP for nothing now too & I asked whether to stay on or come off & the clinic dr said "it's up to you" !   Sorry for me post but worn out after 6 mcs


----------



## StrawberrySundae

This is what I was told:

according to latest data (UIT-updates in fertility treatment that took place recently in Madrid) NK cells are not responsible for implantation  failure...lots of confirned data ,  prednisone should not be included into a regular  scheme of ART support.

Very confused 🤷🏽‍♀️


----------



## Kris76

Ha, I know Lulu lots of sex ed about not getting pregnant and all the years I spent trying so hard to be careful. To end up in this situation. 

Strawberry- yes it is very interesting.  I first went to ARGC but didn't end up cycling with them.  However, they made me do a £1.1k immunology test, which lead to nothing.  I was ****** off.  Last year I went to the fertility show in London and listened to a panel of experts.  They all said there is not a shred of scientific evidence that NK cells is a thing in IVF.  There is nothing to show that it impacts or even matters. They hated the term NKC and thought it was completely wrong to use and just fear inducing.  They said it is just white blood cells.  I was even angrier, that I was emotionally bribed to do it at such an expense.  That test is a money spinner. 

I had slightly elevated reading in my testing and took the results with me when I switched to the Lister.  They didn't even want to look at it, no interest in it at all.


----------



## Syd72

Morning all, bfn confirmed for me today so now waiting to hear back from Penny.  I have no idea if I can do another fresh cycle straight away, will also need to be a different donor I guess.

That's interesting about the prednisone, Serum put you on it automatically although my understanding is that they use lower doses than they used to.  Does any of the research suggest it actually does any harm rather than just not helping?


----------



## Kris76

Hi Syd.  I am so sorry to hear that.  I was really hoping it was not going to be the case.  It is a ****ty business. Have they recommended you use another donor?  Also, how long does it take to line one up?

Good point about the Prednisone.  However, I can't imagine that would give you anything that can be potentially harmful. 

Hope your next round is the one.


----------



## LuluLimon

Syd-i am very sorry 😥 it's tough x
I know you've got the grit to get there. I strongly feel its a numbers/luck game. How long does the donor arrangements take? X

Re NK stuff...I regret doing the tests cos of the cost and I wish I had gone to ZW rather than Dr Gorgy. I think for me it's thyroid/clotting that didn't help out FETs but I'm game on the low dose if it does just make things a bit less hostile- I always remember Meredith on Grey's Anatomy saying she had a hostile uterus! I'm now putting on my IVF meditation- I going to positive think my hormones into being awesome!
I'll find out tmrw if I can start Stims.


----------



## Syd72

Lulu I remember Monica from Friends saying the same thing, something about how could she have a hostile uterus when she'd always tried to be such a good host   Hope everything goes ok today.

Thanks ladies.  Penny has told me to get a down reg injection done locally and then stop all medication.  Bleed should happen quite quickly after that I think and then I start the estrogen again and as soon as the new donor is ready I'll fly over again.  There's a constant pool of donors at Serum and we don't have a long list of requirements for ours so I'm hoping she will have identified a new donor by next week.  I'm assuming it will be a new donor just because she wouldn't want to stim the original one again so quickly.


----------



## LuluLimon

Syd that's really positive from Serum x 

My scan ok so I'm off on Stims from tonight. They counted a potential 28 follicles, so hopefully we'll get a good few.
I did some  retail therapy afterwards- shouldn't really but I really wanted a treat x
Kris- & butterfly hope all well.


----------



## pauli

Hello ladies,  
Syd, so sorry to hear about your BFN. I really thought it would your time to be lucky as you had a proven donor and your body ‘knows how to get pregnant’. That’s great that you can already plan the next cycle which could happen really soon. 

Kris, 100% fertilisation rate is amazing! I have heard good things about Lister lab. Did you also use embryoscope? Hope all went ok with ET transfer today. Did you transfer one or two? Sorry to hear about your nan, but it is great that you can fly out and be with your family during 2ww. Hope you enjoy your time over there! 

Butterfly, that’s great news that you managed to transfer 2 blastocysts! So pleased for you. Now the dreaded 2ww…hope it goes quickly… and hopefully there is a BFP for you on 18 Feb!    

Lulu, great AFC of 28 follicles! Hopefully plenty of embryos… You must be glad that you are finally starting the stimms. How long did you do DR? Seems like a long time.  

Strawberry, sorry to hear that your clinic is changing things on a whim. It does not give us confidence in them when they do that! But it is a great news that you have some ‘normal’ PGS tested embryos, so you can plan your FET. My Czech clinic did not include the steroids in the protocol either but I have some ‘left—overs’ from the previous cycles and plan to take them (if I manage to get to ET) without even telling them.    

I hear you on the costs. I am frantically searching for the best priced drugs as finally received the prescriptions from Gennet. I am going to try ASDA first, hoping they will accept the Czech prescriptions and then plan to cycle in March. Clinic asked me to get another scan (that’s another £100 expense I did not need) to check on follicles as the previous scan showed one dominant follicle on the day 24 last cycle. Just hoping that they will not need another scan before the treatment in March! 

Take care everyone
xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Hi Pauli! Glad you're well. From this item ppl seem to think Asda/Superdrug re the cheapest- or if you've got a very nice GP, some ladies had posted they got the steroids etc via them?? I hate the "oh just have a check"scans- especially when their being billed!  March isn't far away though hun x
My DR'ing was actually only 11 days- it's the 5 weeks earlier of BCP that was a killer this time!


----------



## Kris76

Hi Ladies

Haha Syd, I remember that saying by Monica.  I agree!  So great, that you can get going so quickly, time wise.  However, that is tough on the body.  Be good to yourself. 

Lulu. amazing!!!  I nearly fell off my chair.  28 follicles is incredible...I thought my little 7 were good.  A huge congrats to you.  Surely, there will be some gooduns in that batch.  Very, very positive news. Fabulous. Nothing wrong with some retail therapy either.  We are going to Paris tomorrow for the weekend and I am catching the morning Eurostar while my OH catches the late afternoon train, as I intend to hit the shops before he arrives. Not that we can afford it after treatment, however, us ladies need a bit up a pep me up. 

Hi Pauli - I love the Lister.  Very happy there. I didn't use embryoscope. They were developing nicely, so I left it at that.  Pauli check Boots online pharmacy as they also offer IVF meds. I hear ASDA are competitive. 

I had my transfer this morning.  Amazingly all 7 made it to blastocyst. 5 were considered top grade, with one being average, so they won't use or freeze that one. Another one, is slightly behind and needs one more day. The Dr gave me the odds of transferring one over two and the risk of twins etc.  However, we definitely went with 2.  I have at least 3 to freeze with possibly one more.  See how it goes over night. I was very happy with that result.  Fingers crossed they aren't abnormal.  The transfer went well.  He gave me a 23% chance, they are the stats.  Odds are stacked against me but I'm hoping I can beat them. 

Fingers crossed for all. 

x


----------



## LuluLimon

Oh Kris that is excellent news! We all want lovely blasts! Really have a good feeling one will work for you xx 
Have a fab time in Paris- it's been snowing there!! Have some yummy croissants for me and indulge the lovely retail options!! 

I'm hoping not all grow as I'll be blxxry huge!  I'm hopeful for a few mature ones though, surely 1 good one - fingers crossed!


----------



## Butterfly1976

Kris - Congratulations on being PUPO - what a fab result! So pleased for you   Really hope one of your top grade embies is the one (or maybe both ) but must be so reassuring to know you have some top grade blasts to freeze just in case.

Lulu - Wow a AFC of 28 is fab, here's hoping you get lots of nice juicy ones for EC, you must be so happy to be stimming at last. I don't blame you for not wanting all 28 to get to 22mm though, it was uncomfortable enough with just 7, wouldn't want to be dragging those ovaries around lol.

Syd - So sorry about the BPN but sounds like you will be able to cycle again soon which is good. Just try and give yourself a bit of time to recover both physically and emotionally between cycles x

Pauli - Thank you Hun, the 2WW isn't too bad so far but only managed 3 days yet x

AFM - Nothing to report at the moment. Got some period like pains but I get them at all different times of the month at the best of times (which no one can give me a reason for) so I can't go by those, also I believe that its a side effect of the pessaries as well. So I'm telling myself not to symptom spot and focus on getting through the next 10 days. Gosh I wish they could just put me to sleep for the 2WW that would be ace!

Love and hugs


----------



## Kris76

Thanks ladies. Pretty stressed with work at the moment, I have a stress rash. So hopefully I can manage to keep calm as possible. I bought a neck and shoulder massager which is great.  I fell asleep with it on me the other night. 

Ha, yes, fair enough, 28 full grown follicles would be a bit of a nightmare to carry around.  Just need some nice mature eggs. I keep looking at the picture they gave me of the two they transferred.  I so want them to stick. I still cant bring myself to throw out the picture of the one from the first cycle that didn't take. 

I know what you mean Butterfly.  Would be so great, if we can all be sedated for 2 weeks!  Yes, try not to symptom spot, you'll just drive yourself mad. 

I'm hoping in the not too distant future, we can all have success. 

x


----------



## LuluLimon

Butterfly- at least 3 days down!
Kris- I've kept all the embie photos of my FETs. I even have all the sticks when I've had Bfps in my bathroom cupboard...a bit sad, but it always made them feel real x

We need one of those cryo-pods, set the dial for 13 days and no stress!
Are you guys eating anything special, like pineapple etc?
.


----------



## Kris76

Lulu, I am sure I would do the same.  I just have never been lucky enough so far to ever have had a BFP. Ha, that would be amazing, nice and rested too. I could do with a long sleep. 

No, I am not.  I did eat some rocky road that I had made for xmas and froze earlier tonight!  I should be stricter with my diet.


----------



## Butterfly1976

Do maltesers count as special? I've nearly finished off a family bag tonight if that counts lol

I wasn't told to eat anything special, just avoid soft cheese and raw eggs (like I was going to be eating them anyway). 

Kris - try not to let the stress get to you too much, I know it's easier said than done, but they do say to avoid it and try to stay chilled. Obviously they don't realise that the 2ww is the most stressful thing ever!

A 2 week sleep sounds like heaven, I'm sure I could sleep through most of this if I didn't have to get up for work and to take DD to school  

xx


----------



## Syd72

Kris that is an amazing result!  When I did OE iVF (admittedly I was 44) I produced 10 eggs but only 1 made it to early blast and 1 more was almost at blast...  7 to blast is fantastic.  Now you can have a lovely tww in Melbourne.

Butterfly, hell yes maltesers count as special!  Family bags of chocolate buttons are my favourite, fortunately you can't get them out here but I always buy a bag at the start of a long car journey when I'm back in the UK.  Sadly they don't last the whole journey because I'm a complete pig...

Lulu, loving the idea of a cryo-pod for the tww although I'm a bit of a sci-fi fan so the thought of cryo-pods immediately brings to mind visions of Aliens bursting out of them...  28, that is a lot of follicles!  There should be a few good ones in there   I was a bit half-hearted with my diet on my last cycle, I did eat a few brazil nuts each day after transfer but that was about it.  I'm trying to be much healthier now in the lead up to my next cycle.

Thanks for the nice comments ladies.  I'm honestly not too worried about going straight to another cycle as it's DE so it's not like I'm stimming.  Perhaps I'm deluding myself as there's still a fair amount of medication involved what with oestrogen and progesterone and clexane and steroids and, and and...  But honestly, I think it would be more emotionally stressful to wait.

Turns out my doctor has to order the one off down reg injection in so it should be here next week - at the not inconsiderable cost of GBP 500!!  Thank god my medication is covered by my health care otherwise there's just no way we would be doing this although there is a lifetime limit which we are rapidly approaching.  Have to stay on the progesterone and estrogen until I can get hold of the injection so hoping it arrives as soon as poss.

x


----------



## Butterfly1976

Syd - Chocolate buttons are the best I agree, especially the giant ones   I can do a family bag of those no problem! Shame you can't get them over there, if I was you I'd be filling my suitcase with them   x


----------



## LuluLimon

Hope everyone had a nice weekend.
Syd did our get the injection? 
Butterfly how was the end of the first week? 
Kris- I think you were due to be flying today? Hope all went well x
Afm- a bit bruised from injections. Had scan today and 16 are growing which is great. My lining is also at a decent level, on our FETs it never got to 8mm and it's there already so I'm happy. Another on Weds then should know more.
I'm kinda to eat a few pancakes tmrw+ with fruit they'll nearly be healthy!
I've started watching Britannia ( the Celt v Roman drama) which seems like lots of drug taking raves so far!


----------



## Kris76

HI ladies

Hope everyone is well?  

Had a fab weekend in Paris.  Snowed so much!!  It looked beautiful.  Lots of eating...no drinking,  booo.  Yes, Lulu, good memory, going to Heathrow in about 45 mins. Madly packing and trying to do work today.  Look forward to getting on the plane, as know then there will nothing i can do about anything for 24 hours.  So hopefully the stress levels come down.  Frightened I'm killing these embies.  Ill be good once on the other side. 

Lulu, fab result with 16 growing.  You're very fertile!  Sounds like the beginnings of a really good round. Hope all continues to go just as well.  

Butterfly, how has your first week gone?  Not too long to go now.  

Syd, are things coming along with your next round?

Pauli, how are things with you?  Did you manage to find some reasonable priced drugs?

Have a good week!

x


----------



## Syd72

Ha ha butterfly, trouble with that being I'd eat them all...

Thanks lulu, yes, had it yesterday.  Just waiting for AF now but it's not showing any sign, stopped all the meds on Monday.  Having said that, definitely feeling the pre-AF rage this week!  Great results for you on follies and lining, hope all goes well today.  Will have to check that series out, is it on netflix?

Kris, Paris sounds wonderful!  Hope you had a great flight to Melbourne and feel more relaxed.


----------



## LuluLimon

Hi Syd hope AF shows up soon-those nearly there signs get on my nerves at times x
Kris hope the flight went well x
Butterfly how are you doing? Not too long now x
Pauli- hope all good with you.

AFM back for another scan Friday. Eggs are growing with biggest at 14mm so I'm thinking in 2 days they might know when we do EC.
I'm getting a little stressy about timing of DTD so that DH's sample is around 3 days. I can't remember how much notice they give you?! I don't want it to be too recent as there aren't as many as last time.


----------



## Butterfly1976

Kris - Hope you are having a lovely time in Melbourne and that you are managing to de-stress a bit  

Syd - Eating them all would be the plan of course   If I was really disciplined they might last a week lol

Lulu - Sounds like everything is moving alone nicely and EC should be soon. I felt just like you about DH's sample. They said to abstain for 3-5 days but I knew we'd only get about 2 day's notice so really worried about the timing. I knew I had a scan on the Monday and that EC would be the Wednesday at the earliest so we DTD on the Sunday so Wed would be 3 days but if it went to Fri it would still be OK at 5 days. In the end though when the clinic called me after my scan they said if DH hadn't DTD in the last 2 days (which we had) to do it that day and it would be OK (so that would only have been 2 days). I don't really think it's that crucial but totally agree that it's stressful as you can't plan it to the day because they only give you 2 days notice for EC. Hope my rambling makes sense  

AFM - I'm surviving the 2WW but only just! It's driving me nuts   I've brought a couple of cheapy tests and very tempted to test early, but I'm just too chicken! I guess I'd rather be PUPO than BFN for as long as possible. Also although I want this more than anything in the world, being pregnant again after the death of my baby girl is frankly terrifying so better to stay ignorant either way until Sunday when I do the OT  

Love to you wonderful ladies xx


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Lulu sounds very promising, I hope all goes well with EC. 

Butterfly, glad you are still in there with a chance.  I know what you mean about testing too early.  I was always too chicken to as well. 

AFM, i got up today and saw the beginnings of AF.  Completely and utterly crushed.  Cant stop crying, feel so overwhelmed with grief. I feel like this is my fault. As I have been under such stress since just before transfer, been having really bad stomach cramps as a result.  I feel like I brought this on myself and I have wasted 2 good embryos.  I should've known better and frozen them when I was in a better state of mind.  Struggling as I'm on the otherside of the world from my OH and I haven't told my family about IVF.  I'm staying with my gran to help her out and hiding so she doesn't see my cry and be upset. I was really hoping it would take this time as I had a good round.  I can't process this. Don't know what to do with myself. You ladies are the only ones I can talk to and who completely understand.


----------



## Syd72

Kris how sure are you it’s af? No chance it could be an implantation bleed? I had iB with all my pregnancies. If it is af, i’m devastated for you but it’s absolutely not your fault! My understanding with stress is that the main issue is it effects progesterone and you’re taking progesterone supplements so you’re covered. You must not blame yourself.


----------



## LuluLimon

Kris- don't start worrying before test date. Some on my march FET had huge bleeding and has a 9 week old even though she was convinced it had failed. It's likely stress and you've a lot of blood flowing in that region. I know it's easier said than done but nothing is over until test day. (((Xxxx))) Could you tell your gran-? I found grannies are easier to talk to 

Butterfly- I'm with you on being PUPO as long as possible! I've never been tempted to test early. I think the apprehension will be there but it's a different time, different embryo...positive thinking xx

Love to you All- we can and will do this! Xx


----------



## Kris76

Hi Ladies

It is definitely AF.  It always begins like this.  I can't believe it came over a week before test day.  It was a tough day, pretty much spent it crying and filled with despair.  Nursing my gran at the same time.  I did get my OH to call.  He is more positive than I am.  However, I went over to a friends tonight, who knows im doing this.  She has 3 kids, so difficult at the same time.  This is so much tougher than the first fail. Im a wreck.  Feel incredibly ill. 
Thanks Syd, makes me feel a little better that it can just effect progesterone.  

Glad you are still going strong butterfly. 

Lulu encouraging words, i really hope we can all have successful outcomes. 

xx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Oh Kris I'm devastated for you. Surely it's too early to be AF? I'm sure you know your own body, but I'm still going to hope for a miracle for you


----------



## Kris76

Thanks ladies. It's definitely AF. I have no words for the grief I feel. I cannot stop crying. I feel as if I've run out of time.


----------



## LuluLimon

Oh Kris I am so SO gutted for you- we all know the bitter disappointment and sadness that brings and there aren't really any words we can write to make you feel better. But know that we do understand and feel with you. The whole thing is a sh#&&y unfair lottery. 

Do hold onto the thought that you have frosties- all were the same top gradings and likely you have one in there that WILL stick. 

By going through all this we have all innate courage, grit, determination and tenacity. It makes us super-strong mommies and I know that you will get your hearts desire. Dare to believe it WILL happen- don't get caught up in worrying about the timing or age. 

Check out Rosanne Austin- - frommaybetobaby. She has been so helpful over the past 18months of MC's/failures for me- really good exercises for changing your mindset.

Big virtual hugs to you Kris xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Butterfly thinking of you for tomorrow.

I'm in for EC on Tuesday. Roll on then x


----------



## Cheekypea76

Hey ladies,

I hope you don't mind me joining your forum.  I've been reading for the last few days..

I'm 41 and am having IVF with Gennet in Prague.  I just had my first cycle cancelled yesterday as a scan showed I had only two follicles (I had six the month before) so I am going to start again next month with the highest possible dose of Gonal.

My FSH and AMH levels are a challenge with this whole process but I am determined to try with OE before going DE despite it being a very slim chance of success.

Lovely to virtually meet you all.


----------



## LuluLimon

Cheekypea- welcome!

Everything varies month to month so fingers crossed for a better AFC result for you on next month. Are you on steroids or any supplements for egg quality? By by by VG
Lulu x


----------



## Kris76

Thanks Lulu, I'll check out the website. Not really coping well with it this time round. 

Best of luck with your EC on Tuesday. Sounds like it will be a bumper crop. Fingers crossed for good ones in there. It would be great to see some success within the group. 

CP - welcome, you'll find the loveliest and strongest bunch of ladies on here, that I for one draw a lot of strength from. I'm.sorry to hear of your cancelled round. As Lulu said it does vary from cycle to cycle. I had 1 egg on my first cycle and 7 on the next, that was with the addition of Gonal F. I also did acupuncture which helped me relax a lot. I am a professional worrier and anxiety sufferer. Good luck to you. 

Xx


----------



## Kris76

I hope all still coming along well Butterfly, Pauli and Syd.


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Kris - gutted for you it really is    but as Lulu says hold on to the fact that you have some fantastic frosties waiting for you and hopefully your clinic will be able to tweak your protocol a bit next time to help as well. This absolutely is not your fault, the whole thing is just a really unfair lottery   xx

Cheekypea - A warm welcome Hun, we all understand the challenges of trying with OEs at our ages and are here to support you x

Lulu - So glad you've got your date for EC all the best for Tuesday x

AFM - I think I'm out I'm afraid. Had lots of AF pains last night and really fed up of worrying about every twinge so I took a test BFN, not even a glimmer of a second line   I had a good cry last night and feel pretty resigned about it now. I will do my test in the morning on OTD but I know it hasn't worked. 

Love to you all xxx


----------



## Kris76

Oh Butterfly, I'm so sorry, I have no adequate words.  We all just understand how hard it is. It is so unfair. Why won't they just stick?!  It's so heartbreaking.  I'm sorry, I'm still so crushed to be of much comfort.  I really hoped it was going to work for you. Its so draining.  Heart goes out to you. 

Lulu, best of luck for your EC on Tuesday.  Look forward to hearing of your no doubt wonderful result. 

xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Butterfly I really hope tomorrow gives a different result, I was convinced you were on for a bfp. This is such a cruel thing and the worst thing is the helpless feeling.  
I don't think anything we say will make it better.  It's a huge achievement to get the top blasts and when they don't stick you just don't understand why. It's nothing we seem to have any control over. Big hugs ((xxxxx)))

Thanks Kris & you Butterfly for your wishes 😘


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Confirmed BFN this morning on OTD  . I actually didn't find it too bad as I'd done my snotty cry fest on Friday night and a bit on Saturday as well so feeling pretty resigned today. I have to call the clinic tomorrow and they will tell me to re-test on Tuesday (as they told me this at ET) so I will do that but it's a done deal as far as I'm concerned.

We have one more try as we paid for a multi cycle deal so now really worried that that won't work either as really this try went well in the end and we got 2 good embies so its hard to see how it could work any better next time. We really can't afford more than these 2 tries, I wish we had unlimited funds but we've borrowed this money off my Dad as it is.

Lulu - totally agree about the helpless feeling, I really think the injections were the easy bit as you are in control of that and get your results as you go along.

Love to you wonderful supportive ladies, it really helps to talk to people who understand


----------



## Kris76

I'm so sorry again Butterfly.  At least you have one more try, I really hope with everything it is the one. Yes agree, when I went into this, I thought the injections were going to be the hardest. They are a walk in the park in comparison to the emotional anguish. I'd now happily inject into my eyeballs if I knew it would work. 

I know, it's financially difficult as well. We just looked at our credit card bill from paying off the last cycle and it was pretty shocking. Shame the NHS won't cover women over 40. 

I've been reading loads since my AF arrived. Everything I read from UK, Australia, Sweden to the US all point to embies not sticking is down to chromosomal abnormalities. Even if visually embies appear to look top grade. Unfortunately, with women over 40 abnormalities are at about 90%. I don't want to be a Debbie downer but that's pretty much the problem. Such a difficult pill to swallow as there's not much we can do about that. Not impossible, just incredibly difficult. As we need to produce a decent number of eggs to try and get one normal one. It's more than likely my frozen 3 are abnormal. 

I haven't slept since my AF came due to worry and despair. Was thinking of going to the GP to get something for the anxiety. 

Yes, Butterfly, I really think it would be that much harder to go through without having you wonderful ladies to talk to. You can talk to others and they are sympathetic but they don't quite understand the anguish. 

Lots of love.
xx


----------



## Kris76

Good luck with EC tomorrow Lulu. 

Hope you're doing ok Butterfly. 

Xx


----------



## Syd72

Kris I'm so sorry it did turn out to be AF, absolutely gutted for you.  I can't remember how old you are and can't see signatures when replying but I have a feeling you're around 41, you really haven't run out of time.  I know that's easy for me to say at the grand old age of 46 but I do truly believe you still have a good chance with own eggs.  `What are next steps for you?

Lulu, good luck for tomorrow, looking forward to your update.

Butterfly, so so sorry for the bfn.  Things really can vary from one cycle to the next so there's every reason to be hopeful for your next cycle.  

Welcome cheeky.  That's a prime example of how things can change one cycle to the next, so sorry it was the wrong way round for you but hopefully things will improve for your cycle next month.  

AF started for me on Friday, Penny confirmed that I'm ready and now just waiting for my donor.  She knows I really need to be in Hong Kong 10 March so I suspect she's delaying my donor in order to guarantee ec after that date just in case anything goes wrong and gets delayed.  Had horrible headaches over the weekend which I remember from down regulating last month and also having hot sweats which is a new one for me and not much fun!

Hope everyone else is ok.


----------



## Kris76

Hi Syd

I'll be 42 in about 6 weeks. So I'm definitely pushing it using my own eggs. Still so depressed over it. I have an appointment with my consultant on the 27th...as I'm still in Melbourne. He said that we need to go over things and come up with a new plan. I know he'll tell me to start looking at DE. What other plan is there?! I've already changed protocol and it worked well so don't need to change that again. 

Really glad to hear things are coming along with you...except for the headaches and hot sweats. Look forward to the updates. Really hope this is it. 

I'm going to take a break from my pity party for one, as it's 30 degrees today and go to my friends who has a pool. 

Xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Hi Ladies,
Syd- I'm glad AF has shown up 
It's really encouraging you can cycle again so soon and that there's a donor ready- it's a numbers game after all.  I had a few hot sweats DR'ing this time, damp cloth on head and wrists?

Kris- 42 is not pushing it. My coach had her son naturally after failed IVF at nearly 44. Some of the embies just aren't right. Did you do embryoscope this time?  Also if protocol seemed to work, supplements for egg quality? I don't know what you were on but diet could help. I think it's all about getting those extra few %'s from small things.
But enjoy the pool- it sounds a great plan!

Butterfly hope you are doing ok X

I've got home and feeling sore. They collected 22 in the end. We are happy DH's fresh sample was ok to use for ISCI. I'm not sure what was in my trigger but the last 2 nights I had really erotic dreams- sorry if tmi. Now the hoping/ praying for the One begins x


----------



## Kris76

Lulu congrats! 22 is extraordinary! Wow, what a result. Might have to come to you for eggs. Such great news. No doubt there are some fantastic ones in that lot. Ha, God knows what was in your trigger injection. I had strange dreams but nothing erotic unfortunately. Best of luck over the next few days. 

That gives some hope Lulu. Very lucky with own eggs at 44.

I have 10 nieces and nephews, perhaps I can just take one back with me as my own. I'll be long gone before someone notices. 

I didn't do embryoscope, it wasn't raised to me as something to be done. I will ask about it on my follow up. I thought that still didn't tell you about abnormalities like PGS? Again, consultant has never mentioned any drugs re egg quality. I was just on menopur and Gonal F,  with two triggers. Will definitely add it to the list of things to discuss. Always try to eat well... except for my moments of weakness with chocolate. I've been so stressed with everything going on, my gran and this that I've dropped 4kgs in a week. That's highly unusual for me. Feel traumatised. 

Rest up today, you deserve a treat for that result. 

Xx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Wow Lulu 22 eggs! There has to be some good ones in that bumper crop  

Kris - I'm 42 on Friday so totally understand how you feel   I got pregnant naturally at 39 without trying only for our little girl to die at full term due to a small placenta, if I'd gone into labour a few days earlier she wouldn't have died but no one knew anything was wrong until it was too late. Everyone said oh you'll have no problem getting pregnant again but it's not happening and it feels like I've run out of time. We have a review meeting on 20th March so will have to see what the consultant says about egg quality etc. Really we can only afford one more fresh round with OEs but if there's no chance of success we may have to re-think. 

Syd - Glad everything is moving alone for you now, wishing you loads of luck xx

Take care ladies xx


----------



## Kris76

Oh Butterfly, I'm so truly sorry to hear. I have no adequate words. Feel silly for complaining. You are one incredibly tough woman. I'm in awe of your strength. I can't even imagine going through something like that. So horrible. 

Yes, certainly getting worried about being that much older.  Hopefully the follow up appointments for both of us can shed some light. I'll let you know what mine says. I know we are all different, any info helps. Well I hope you do something really nice for your bday. One day of from our brains and woes is important.  

Let's hope for all of us that our next rounds are all successful. Feels like gambling. You can either win it or lose it all. 

Xx


----------



## magicpillow

Kris76 I can really relate to not wanting to give up on your own eggs.  I'll be 42 in August and although after our recent 4th IVF (a mc) we said our only two options are donor eggs or adoption, part of me still wants to try own eggs.  I think also due to the fact we have to use donor sperm due to my husband's azoospermia, I want to hang onto some kind of genetic link.  I think the other reason is that I've never had any issues identified with me (other than age) and I always respond really well in cycles.  Last cycle I got 14 eggs retrieved, 10 fertilised and at day 3 there were still 7 going.  I had 2 blastocysts transferred which resulted in a singleton pregnancy which I then lost (no frozens).  In 4 cycles I've had 2 mmcs and 2 bfns.  It's so hard as my egg quality must be poor and I don't want to throw money down the drain but it's hard to give up when I know that in theory there isn't anything wrong with me.  We are having some time out and a big honeymoon in May so realistically I wouldn't be able to start any further treatment until I'm almost 42 or just turned 42.

Butterfly I'm so sorry for your loss.  That is utterly heartbreaking.


----------



## Kris76

Hi Magic pillow - what you have been told is what I fear. After 2 failed rounds, I'm still not quite ready to give up on using my own eggs. 
You are getting a high number of eggs. It's very good. Yes, it all comes down to egg quality which as you know comes down to age. I think I just need a time machine. 

Sorry to hear of your MC's. Very hard to cope with. 

Sometimes, a bit of a break is what is needed. Let your body get rid of the drugs. Relax and not worry about treatment. A honeymoon sounds just perfect. Remember, lots of couples have got pregnant on their honeymoon! Best of luck with that. 

Xx


----------



## Syd72

Kris I take it your OH has had his sperm tested and you've had a hysto?  Have you had any of the immune testing?  Do you take aspirin, clexane anything like that?  Which clinic are you with if you don't mind me asking.  You've probably said all of this before so apologies, I can't keep track.  I hope you had a lovely day by the pool, sounds heavenly.

Thanks Lulu, the humidity is starting to build in Hong Kong so we're back to having the overhead fan on at night which helps, I just spend the night throwing the covers off then pulling them back on   That's a great number of eggs!  The dreams could be the trigger or could be the progesterone, even in a normal cycle I dream much more vividly after ovulation and I'm lead to believe that's the increase in progesterone.  I had a lot of erotic dreams in the tww this time, assume because of the progesterone supplements.  Or possibly because my OH is refusing to lay a finger on me in case I get pregnant again and mess up the treatment as happened last year!  Therefore I'm getting desperate...  When is otd for you?

Thanks Butterfly and early happy birthday for Friday.

Magic, have you had implantation issues looked at?  I know it's much harder over 40 but I just can't believe at 42 there isn't still a chance.  Do you know your amh and afc?  I know that only indicates number of eggs rather than quality but I still find it useful to know.

Penny emailed me last night to say my donor is ready and asked me to start meds today so back on it all.  She knows I need to be in Hong Kong the weekend of 10 March if at all possible and had said she would work round that, I'm really confused how she's going to do that based on timing but I'm sure she's got it all worked out.  I felt so excited for my last round but honestly just feel like we're going through the motions this time.  If it was just a case of it not working last time but having embyies in the freezer I would be feeling more optimistic but the whole issue of only getting 2 good day 5 blasts from a young proven donor despite the fact my OHs sperm tests and dna fragmentation have all come back fine just makes me wonder why it would be any different this time...  One thing I am going to do is stay off the gluten for the next two weeks as that is a problem with inflammation I know.


----------



## LuluLimon

Hello ladies.
I just lost my last post- so just a quickie.
Syd- glad it's not just me 😘. There's every chance on this donor you'll get frosties x

Butterfly- thinking of you. I wish you a lovely birthday for Friday. Believe xxx

Kris- the scope won't pick up genetic abnormalities, but will see any "abnormal" development compared to their algorithms for the first few days. We'll see....
I took dexamethasone steroid for quality, plus the usual ubiquinol, resveratrol, fish oils and Apimist.

Magicpillow- a relaxing honeymoon sounds perfect just before a cycle. I'm with you on not giving up on own eggs.have you done immunes/implantation testing?

"I'm ALL IN on this cycle, and my non-negotiable desire to be a mommy" My coach sent me some wise words this week, so I am sharing them- frommaybetobaby. , her weekly emails and exercises have helped my mindset grow strong after our losses/failures. 

We got a call to say 12 fertilised eggs and 18 of my eggs were mature. I'm very happy - plus it beats our result from age 37 and with the added torsion incident on the sperm side! Take that decline - Pow!


----------



## magicpillow

Lulu congrats on all those eggs!  Amazing news!

Thanks ladies for the reassurances.  I had been feeling like there is no point doing own eggs anymore but it might be worth considering (haven't mentioned to hubby yet!).  I'm thinking of maybe testing immunes etc to rule out other reasons why it might not be working (other than age).  Considering Zita West and seeing if they think there is any hope embarking on it around the time of my 42nd birthday.  Otherwise we will consider donor embryo or adoption.

Hope you're all doing ok.  It's a tough road anyway but harder when you feel like time it ticking and you have to make difficult decisions!


----------



## Kris76

So happy to hear Lulu. 12 fertilised eggs is absolutely brilliant. Can't ask for a better result. May the cells keep dividing! 

I'll definitely ask about the embryoscope. I've had a talk on it when I went to the IVF Babble met up recently. Haven't heard of the other drugs you mentioned. I'll mention then to my consultant. 

Hi Syd, my OH had his sperm tested and it is excellent to the point that the consultant thought his result readings was a typo...it wasn't. It's all me and my 42 year old eggs. They didn't want to give me a hysto, didn't feel I needed it. I haven't been asked to take anything else other than the menopur and Gonal F.  I'm at the Lister clinic in Chelsea. I really like then there, and they have great results. 
I've also had immune testing and it's all fine. I actually don't really believe in it. As there's no science anywhere to say immunity issues and infertility is related. Great to hear your donor is ready . Not sure how they work around your dates either but I'm glad they can. I know what you mean, last night I kept kicking the covers off. Best of luck with this round. 

MP, I'm not ready to give up on my own eggs just yet. I think you can probably give it another go. I hear great things about Zita West. I think there is still hope trying at 42, I know I will still be trying then! While I still have hope, Ill keep going. My friend in Melbourne is about to embark on IVF for the first time at 44. 

Butterfly, hope you are ok? 

Lots of love ladies. 
Xx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Lulu - 12 is a fab number, hope you get lots of lovely blasts xx

Kris & Magic - Thank you for your lovely words   

I'm OK, just waiting for AF to start properly now, been spotting since Monday night but no proper flow yet. I'm feeling a bit in limbo at the moment, our review seems a long way off. 

Love to you all xx


----------



## Tootles

Hello ladies! 

It's so nice to see folks still on here! I've just had a good catch up as I haven't been around for a little while.

Can I jump back in please, as about to embark on round three and wouldn't be able to do it without the support and laughs from this forum. 

I had the scratch done last Friday. "It might be a little uncomfortable" the nurse said. Perhaps the biggest understatement of the century! Wowzers, it hurt!! I don't think that showing me the equipment was a good idea either. It looked like the worlds longest pipe cleaner with an aggressive hedgehog at the end. I nearly vommited with the pain. It had better be worth it.

Only a couple more weeks of being drug free before starting the pesky injections again. And this time I'm changing drugs from easy peasy Gonal F to the one where you have to mix the drugs up. I'm bound to make a pigs ear of it.

Oh, and my beard is still going strong! Thank you DHEA for that attractive side effect!?! On the plus side though, my barnet has never been so full bodied! Every cloud!!!


----------



## LuluLimon

Tootles- chick! So glad to see you back  and raring to go- we missed your witty banter😜😁
Have you thought about Bearded Lady opportunities LOL? It could be a lucrative earner on the side (well at least in the Victorian era mysteries I've been reading xx). I'm having no hair growth but skin is looking rather pasty and spotty 🤔  Have no fear if we could manage the mixology of the 2 powders, anyone can- though maybe set aside a good 20 mins the first night!

Butterfly- I hope AF soon shows up. Do you have some me-treats planned for tomorrow and the next couple of weeks? Your appointment will be here soon x

Magic- we're at ZW. Can't fault them so far. Dr Ndukwe won't force you into unnecessary testing and is happy to her your side of things/thoughts on protocol. They definitely do 42- I think up to 43-44. Their open evenings are quite often.

Kris glad you're feeling positive about OE. We're still spring chickens! I think go with your gut on immunes. I've heard great things on Lister too. It's great there are no sperm worries- I think "unexplained" is just crappy cos you feel it's your fault but no-one says what you can do.  Have you had allergy testing done? 

Thank you all for the kind words for our embies- it means a lot! All 12 have survived to day 3 and are all grade 1-2. It's definitely a Sunday transfer (!) so now we wait and hope that the Leader emerges. 

Apologies for my relentless positivity- it's a conscious effort as I've suffered from huge depressions in the past (until I met my 2nd DH😍). Plus I really believe in mind-body weird bat crazy stuff 😲

Syd/Pauli hope you guys well x

Love to all us sassy, strong super women! X


----------



## Kris76

Hi Tootles, welcome back! Great to see you are still in the game. I hope it's lucky number 3 for you. Yes, I've also heard it said that the scratch is not much to it. They clearly lie! Sounds horrendous. I hope I never have to do that. 
Your drugs sound full on. I would definitely screw it up. I certainly hope it's all worth it. Also, I great you on the beard front. Was playing with mine today, must get it sorted out. 

No allergy testing done Lulu. Didn't know it was a thing. I seem to be allergic to having a baby. Congrats on all 12 still going strong. You'll get some nice ones for blast. Also, your positivity is what I look for when I'm feeling down and sorry for myself. 

Butterfly, my AF took several.days to come in properly. Once it did, it only lasted for about a day. Is there no way you could have a sooner consultation? 

Love to all. Xx


----------



## Syd72

Tootles I'm totally with you on the pain of the scratch!  It bloody hurts - a lot!!!  I was terrified the first time I had to mix powders, utterly convinced I would screw it up, it was fine though.  I thought I had really messed it up when I had to do it in December as a one off down reg, especially as I could only get about 2/3 of the liquid back into the needle, scan the next month showed it had definitely worked though so I think it's fairly idiot-proof 

Lulu, bearded ladies also sprang to my mind when reading Tootles post   Great news on the embies, relentless positivity is good!  I'm sure I'm not the only one who needs a pma boost right now so please, "positive" the c**p out of this board!

Kris, Lister was the first clinic I spoke to, I liked them although I ended up doing my first round with Oxford since I'm from that area originally and logistically it was easier.  I ended up going to Lister for my next round which was an unmedicated IUI.  I found their admin a bit chaotic but liked the people - in particular everyone I saw for a scan was lovely.

Magic it's definitely worth trying again with own eggs.  I know I'm slightly banging the hysto drum but I met someone recently who had tried several rounds of ivf, went for a hysto in Greece and it identified an issue that was very easily cleared up but would certainly have cause huge problems with implantation.  She was then successful on her next round and is now about 6 weeks pregnant.  I've come across a couple of other people on this forum that have had hystos in the UK, been told everything was fine, gone on to have a hysto abroad and discovered they have a uterine septum.  It may just be worth asking about that to make sure there's nothing that could be causing problems.  I had a hysto plus infection treatment last summer and fell pregnant naturally the month after, I lost it but I was 45 1/2 so that would have been my crappy old eggs.  

Butterfly, hope AF gets going properly soon.  Oh, and happy birthday!  Hope you're doing something lovely.

Love to all x


----------



## Kris76

Happy birthday Butterfly!! Have a wonderful day. Let's hope this is your year. Xx


----------



## Tootles

Morning! 
Thanks for the welcome back! 
Happy birthday Butterfly. Hope AF has started properly for you. Do you have a date for a de-brief with your clinic? It's so hard to get fully back into the swing of normal day to day stuff after cycles that haven't worked. I hope you're managing ok. 
Lulu - I love your positivity! As Kris and Syd said, it's defo needed during all this so,please keep it coming!  Have you had any update on the embies? Sounds like it's all going well which is just brilliant. Roll on Sunday for you X
Thanks for the reassurance on the drug cocktails. I'm not sure how, but our clinic is saying Menopur is better for egg quality. I can only guess that it's a more gentle drug perhaps. I'm also going to have either Clexane or steroids depending on the outcome of the NKC test. Feels like we're throwing the kitchen sink at this round which I'm up for. 
Kris - how is your Gran doing? Such a difficult time. What are the next steps for you? I totally get where you are coming from regarding egg quality. It's such a bugger that there doesn't seem to be a solution to it other then just to keep trying. I'm 42 and am still hopeful of there being a good one in there. It's just a case of tempting it to the front of the queue! How are you dealing with your beard?! I'm a plucker, daily!! 
Syd - it makes me tense up just thinking about it! Who on earth came up with the name 'scratch'?! More like 'Endometrial Stabbing'! The nurse showed me the little pot full of my innards afterwards. I much have lost half a stone! How are things going for you? What's your next step? 
I can also relate to the saucy dreams! I had quite a few during my last cycle! Another of the few perks to all of this. Anyone get any other perks? Maybe we should make a list to cheer us up when all this is getting too much! My other half doing more house work was a perk during round one. Oh, and having nice smooth legs due to making sure I shave them for scans! I'm normally a yettie in winter!
Xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Butterfly- Happy Happy Birthday! I hope you have a fab "you" day!
Kris- I only thought of the food allergy testing as my best friend had it done while she was trying and I picked up some weird things. I know some things can worsen inflammation in the body. You never know...
hey Syd- any more news on dates?
Tootles- well the sexy dreams were a plus! Mine was with Thor! Maybe a sign as our DS has a Viking name 😀 I'm not a remote Chris Hemsworth fan.
Clexane I next [email protected]@dy hurt! I am so sorry after 2 days 😑. I had a really bad nights sleep (thanks steroids!) With some weird leg cramping and pains, so I hope nothing wrong and it was just wind.

Our embie update is that 10 are still top grade, 2 average and they can't yet differentiate, so we won't know which one until Sunday. My transfer is booked for 9.30am.
Other pluses of drugs, being able to lie on the couch more and DH making tea and hot water bottles. 
Have a good Friday/Sat xx


----------



## Syd72

I LOVE Chris Hemsworth! Second only to Hugh Jackman


----------



## Tootles

I just googled Mr Hemsworth as never heard of him. Wow! How on earth does anyone get to be that good looking?!  Imagine his donor sperm?! They'd probably swagger out of the test tube and ask you if you come here often?!


----------



## gioama3

Hiya,

Feeling a bit lost. I'm 42. TTC since 2013. Finally find out that I have a blockage in my left tube, extensive scaring from a myomectomy over 10 years ago and some large fibroids. I was advised by my consultant to have another myomectomy but I turned it down. My reasons - by the time i recover i will be 43/44 years of age and could possibly end up with a colostomy bag (although temporary) AND my chances of getting pregnant will be even slimmer. I don't know if I have done the right thing more 60/40. Should I get a second opinion?? I may consider surrogacy but using our own eggs and sperm.

The very best of luck ladies.


----------



## LuluLimon

Syd & Tootles 😝😵!! He's actually TOO symmetrical for me...I much preferred Tom Hiddleston who played Loki- but hey, Thunder God sperm would be Amazeballs! 

Gioama- welcome Sorry to read about your fibroids...I'm not much of an expert on them or tubes I'm afraid but I'm sure ppl will have some wise words x


----------



## Raindrop123

anyone here been successful with egg donation IVF ICSI.

I am hoping it will work for me but worried what my chances are?


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Thanks for asking Tootles, gran is better. She'll be 94 in a couple of weeks and going strong. We should all be so lucky. 
Ha, your scratch experience is freaking me out! I really thought it was not a big deal.  Yes, this whole age thing is annoying. I don't feel like 42...well almost 42, wish my eggs reflected this. 
Ha, well as for the beard. As I said I do like to have a little play with them, which is sick as it disgusts me. They don't stay around for long. I engage in SWB (secret women's business) at home. Do you know the epilady machine that rips out the hair from your legs? I like to run it across my jawline. Then it's silky smooth. I'm also a plucker. Then I use it on my legs before scans, I feel I can't subject the poor sonographers to my winter growth. I also snuck in a bikini wax while I was here as that was getting out of control. 

Lulu the allergy testing is interesting. I actually already do have food sensitivities. I try to avoid foods that do inflame me. I'll look into the connection further. 
I love Chris H. Stalk him on Instagram. I'll take his symmetry any day...also, Tom. Great news on the embies Lulu. Such a good number. There just had to be success in that batch. I can't imagine otherwise. Best of luck for Sunday. 

Syd interesting about the hysto's. I'm going to ask about it in my follow up appt. I do like the Lister and too think the sonographers are super nice...I've cried in front of enough of them. 

Hi Gioama3, welcome. I would definitely get a second opinion. I find that some Drs can just be too eager to surgically intervene. I've worked with Surgeons for the past 10 years. If I were you, I'd get another opinion. Also, absolutely I'd consider surrogacy if I knew my embryos were all normal. I think you should start with finding an expert in this area and seek other options. Good luck to you. We all know how harrowing the process is. 

Hi Raindrop, welcome. I haven't I'm afraid, still trying with my own. However, Syd is best placed to offer some advice on ED. 

I'm flying back to London tonight. Wish I could stay here longer. It's hot and I don't want to go back to the cold, grey misery. Loved seeing the fam and friends. Im due back here in April but the weather won't be as warm then. 

Good luck again for Sunday Lulu, I'll be sending you good wishes from 40,000 ft in the air. 

Xx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Thank you all for your birthday wishes   While I'd obviously rather not have turned 42 today, my DH and DD have made sure that I've had a nice day and we've spent some lovely quality time together. AF arrived properly Wednesday night so feeling a bit more like I'm getting my body back now after all the drugs etc.

Tootles - so lovely to see you back   are you still at nurture for round 3? I have my review with a really nice lady consultant there who did my ET on 20th March so I'm hoping they have some positive thoughts for round 2.

Love to all and nice to see some new ladies xxx


----------



## Syd72

I like Tom Hiddleston but definitely not as much as I like Thor!  Also a bit partial to Idris Elba so the Thor films are all win win as far as I'm concerned 

Kris, glad to hear your gran is better, I can't believe it's time for you to head home already.

Raindrop I've done one round of donor egg IVF which sadly didn't work, about to do another.  The odds will depend on lots of different things, do you have any other issues, are you using own sperm or donor sperm?  Odds are definitely higher with donor eggs but nothing is guaranteed.  

Gioama, sorry to hear all of that.  I had a large fibroid removed almost two years ago.  Fibroids are thought to impact pregnancy based on where they are and how big they are.  Mine was outside of the uterus but very large, in theory it shouldn't have stopped me getting pregnant but in practice, I had been trying for over a year when I got it removed with no luck at all and I fell pregnant naturally the very first month of trying after the myomectomy at the age of 44 1/2, I miscarried but almost certainly due to old eggs.  The consultant that did my op is an expert in this field and if you are able to get to Oxfordshire or Berkshire I would highly recommend seeing him - Mr Swanton.  He did a fantastic job with me, recovery was very quick, it was around 16cm by 16cm but I only had two wait two months before trying again to get pregnant.  If the scar tissue from your previous op is inside uterus that could also cause issues with implantation.  Surrogacy could be a good option for you, another option could be to do some egg banking rounds - so have a few rounds of ivf and freeze the embryos, then have a frozen transfer once you have recovered.  To do that though you will need to get the scar tissue looked at.  Very best of luck. 

Lulu, 10 at top grade is fabulous!  I'm not going to know any more on dates til my lining scan on 1 March but I'm almost certain I'll end up being in Athens over the weekend of 9 March.  I have to be in Europe a couple of weeks after that anyway and I'm spending Easter in the UK so I'll just hang around in Athens for a while.  It means I'll miss the annual ball that we always go to but hey ho, priorities


----------



## LuluLimon

Well I'm PUPO now. All went well, though the thingummy-jig was cold as anything..brrr! we don't yet know how many frosties we got 😯. As ET was early they were giving them a few more hours before they freeze. We got a 5AB on board so hoping he's a sticky!!
I'm off to rest now so sorry no personals- I woke up at 4.30! Got to work out when OTD is..I think 8th. X


----------



## Kris76

Congrats Lulu, 5AB is great. I only recently googled what those gradings mean. My clinic don't give them. Did you only put 1 back? I know, I hate that metal contraption. There's no dignity in transfer. I hope you have the remaining to freeze. Got back in to London around lunch time and about to have a nap. Wanted to see how you went this morning. Now the waiting game!! Good luck. Xx

Hope everyone else is having a relaxing Sunday?
Xx


----------



## Syd72

Congrats Lulu, that's great news!


----------



## LuluLimon

Thanks ladies!

Kris glad you had a good flight back-to-back hope the jetlag isn't too bad, though I think coming back isn't too bad - the other way gets me! 
It probably wasn't my smoothest /most relaxing transfer- Dr was 30 mins late/my bladder was quite full and we all legged it afterwards to acupuncture as it was freezing yesterday! So trying my best to be open, relaxed and positive today!

I was quite worried that we only had 1 blast yesterday but thankfully the universe has come through and we have 3 hatching blasts frozen this morning. Now the arduous wait! Come on little Wolf !

Hope you are all well xx


----------



## Tootles

Lulu that's so great to read. Huge congrats. Every step is one closer to that much wanted goal. Hope you are managing to take it easy. Three frozen is amazing! 

Hi Butterfly - yep we decided to stick with Nurture. I think they are a good clinic medically, but found they've made a couple of errors already on this latest round which is a tad concerning. I think they are perhaps a victim of being so popular. Also, I think as we get more experienced, we know what to check rather than just assuming all the meds and procedures are being delivered correctly. How have you found things?

Kris76 - I love that you partake in SWB!  And what a considerate lady you are, having a wax! I like to try and keep it all tidy down there too! I even purchased some IVF knickers! Sensible, but pretty! 
So glad to hear that your grandma is well. 94 years is a great age. Is your body clock back in sync?

How are you feeling Syd? Hope you had a fab weekend.

Hi Geoama and Raindrop - hope you are both doing well and finding answers to questions. It's certainly a lot to take in and there is sooo much to learn X X


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

The jetlag isn't great, however, you're right Lulu, much worse going over to Australia. Had no motivation to work today but I'm swamped. I start struggling by the afternoon. We're going to see Hamilton tomorrow night. I hope I can stay awake for it.  Amazing news on your 3 frozen blasts. That's a great number to have tucked away. How are you feeling today Lulu? 

Absolutely Tootles I do. I love SWB. I thought I better wax so they don't have any trouble finding things!  I like the sound of IVF knickers. I try not wear any with holes in them on my scan days. 
Thanks, my gran is doing incredibly well for 94. We should all be so lucky. 

I have my follow up appt. tomorrow, so I'll see how that goes. I think my consultant will tell us to start looking at DE. I started bleeding a little on the flight back, not much and its not fresh. So not sure what's going on with me. Can't be good. 

Where are you up to with your treatment now Tootles? Sorry, I know you've probably said but my brain isn't working at capacity at the moment. 

When I was at home and in my childhood bedroom. I found my old tarot cards that a friend had given me many years ago. We used to fool around with them. I brought them back with me. I did one quick reading on myself today and pulled out the fertility card, Ace of Cups. New beginnings and birth of a child. My OH rolled his eyes at me, but I'm clinging on for dear life! 

Hello to everyone else. Hope you are all having a good start to the week. 
Xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Kris im very jealous of you seeing Hamilton!! Let us know how it is- I tried and failed to get tickets 🤔 I've given up til there's another mass release! As a consolation we're seeing Flight of the Conchords next month😊.
I say hold onto your Ace of Cups card- you never know. I had a clear dream of swallows just after we decided on our fresh cycle- they are fertility symbols in a bunch of cultures- which I never knew. 

There's a fab book I found years ago called "women who run with wolves"- it's about our wild woman within- closer to nature/relationships etc. I find it comforting to read as I've always felt on the outside/not a typical girl/not close to my family-friendly  which infertility compounds. If you haven't read it, it's quite nice and encourages me that it's ok to go and howl at the moon sometimes!!))

Tootles-/Butterfly/Syd - hope you are keeping well. It's March tomorrow-!

Enjoy the snow 
Lulu x


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hey all
It’s been a minute and can’t believe we are in March. The last three months has flown by. I’ve just had my 6th cycle and got AF and a BFN last week.
I feel all out of sorts to be honest, I’m really trying to stay my usual upbeat self. But I catch myself wanting to cry at the most flipping random moments and then blink like crazy to stop myself from doing so. Clearly not normal behaviour!

Kris76 - I saw your pst about  going to the GP to get something for the anxiety. Did you? I did but I had a locum doctor who was so abrupt I put up my armour and asked for hayfever tablets instead!!

Lulu -congrats on the gradings as well.
Tootles how's things with you? Butterfly did you get your review yet?  I'm set to get mine too, but I've just been putting off the appointment. I know they are going to advise donor eggs. But I guess I'm just scared and feel like clinging onto using OE is futile and sheeshh god dam expensive!


----------



## Syd72

Not quite March yet ladies, one more day, you're wishing time away 

Tiger, very sorry for the bfn - that's very normal behaviour for what you're going through.

Kris, I hear Hamilton is fantastic, enjoy!

Loving all the fertility signs ladies.

No news here, work is quiet-ish this week, got my lining scan tomorrow so dying to see if all the beetroot juice I've been drinking has made a difference this time!  It's about 3 days earlier in the cycle than it was last month so I'm slightly nervous.


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Syd - good luck with the scan tomorrow?
Wow Kris - well done on getting Hamilton tickets!
No news here, apart from looking for support groups local to me and also my husband as I feel he is bottling a lot of upset and hurt up, but he just doesn’t talk to anyone apart from me about it, which really worries me.
Anyone got any ideas on that?


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Hamilton was amazing!  So clever, we really loved it. My OH is gifted with getting tickets to hard to get shows.  We did get them 13 months ago!  Keep trying for the next release Lulu, well worth it.  Lulu, I saw Flight of the Concords a few years ago, it was a good show. I don't know the book you mentioned, Ill have to look it up. 

Hi Tiger Smiles, unfortunately I had run out of time to find a GP, as I was in Melbourne at the time and my regular GP practice I used to go to no longer exists. I think it is something you should pursue if you are struggling. At the same time I made an appointment with a counselor at my clinic. First session on Friday.  You should see if your clinic does the same.  Might be helpful for your husband. It is difficult for them, as they often can be forgotten. 

Syd, glad to hear you are progressing.  I haven't heard about beetroot juice though. 

AFM, I have had a crazy couple of days. I had my follow up appointment yesterday.  However, I have been experiencing bleeding since Saturday afternoon, which was concerning me.  It hasn't happened to me before.  So I emailed my consultant to let him know before our appointment. He asked me if I had tested, which I hadn't as I got my AF so didn't bother. I tested and got a positive.  I was really shocked to see it and still didn't think anything of it, just thought that I had a chemical pregnancy and some hormones were lingering. 
My OH and I went to the appointment and I explained how I got my AF a week after transfer, and it was a proper AF, 5 days long.  I stopped taking cyclogest and drew a line under that round. Told him again, that I have experienced bleeding since.  So he gave me an ultrasound and found a pregnancy sack, calculated it as 5 weeks + 3 days (I think it is more like 5 weeks exactly).  Again, my OH and I were completely shocked and speechless. My consultant kept saying, you should see your faces.  

However, I'm not in the clear. My consultant is not convinced it is a viable pregnancy, he said the fetal pole is rather small and didn't think it was as developed as it should be. I have to have another scan on Tuesday to see if a heartbeat can be detected.  If not, then its not a viable pregnancy. Of course, I'm completely beside myself and couldn't sleep at all last night. There's no part of me that feels elated that I've even got this far.  I had grieved this loss a couple of weeks ago. Can't quite process what is happening. It's going to be agony until next Tuesday. My OH told me this morning to not stress and relax.  I wanted to punch him in the face. I am very worried, as I am still bleeding and it is heavier since Sunday....since the scan yesterday.  He said, he couldn't see any bleeding from the uterus and it might be coming from my cervix but he really had no idea as to why I was bleeding. Can't be good. I spent all morning googling but it could be a number of reasons. 

All completely nuts.  I thought the 2ww was agony. There's always another stressful surprise with IVF.  Really want this to work. 

I have to run to my acupuncture appointment now. 

Hope everyone is doing well?

xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Kris- just OMFG!! Hold on til Tuesday- I don't envy you the wait XXX


----------



## Syd72

What lulu said!!!! OMFG! Not going to tell you to relax, that’s pointless, but bleeding seems to be very common with ivf pregnancies so the fact you’re still bleeding doesn’t mean anything. I’ve been there, waiting between scans to see if it’s viable, it’s hell. I have everything crossed for you and counting the days til Tuesday.


----------



## Kris76

Thanks ladies.  It's all a bit mad. Syd, I didn't know that bleeding was more common with IVF.

I just ate about a quarter of a box of chocolate roses.  I suspect Ill eat my way to Tuesday.


----------



## Tootles

Kris!! What a situation. Hoping it's all ok and you've got a stubborn little one in there. I can only imagine what you must be feeling. Roll on Tuesday!!

How are you doing Tiger? The spontaneous crying is a bugger but so natural given the drama that is IVF, especially after 6 goes. I know that talking about it can help so I hope you find a good support group near to you. In the mean time keep with us on here chick so we can send you lots of hugs. How is hubby today? It's so hard to read some men. I hope it's not worrying you. 

Hope everyone else is well today X


----------



## LuluLimon

Syd- good luck with lining. Beetroot didn't do much for me on my FETs but better this time round. I quite like it...And yes I've been 1 day ahead all week! I couldn't it on being excited for st David's Day tomorrow but instead its too much free time!

Tigersmiles- sorry about your last BFN (( x)) For oh, mine found games like Battlefield a great distraction. He didn't talk to many friends about what we were doing but having something fun to do/shoot at helped de-stress a bit. He also cycled on some weekends with his mates. He is not a talker though and ridiculously laid back. He is a typical laid-back Kiwi guy and hard to get to talk about emotions.  For you I would try the DR again- even for just a few weeks. Mon was supportive during my MC's prior to IVf. You could try melatonin to help you sleep- I've had lots of fertility related depressions and aleeping better does help. Have a look at the Frommaybetobaby website- some good exercises to do.

Tootles how are you ?
Butterfly hope you are feeling  bit better x

Kris- I'd be hoovering the chocolates. Thinking of you xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Nothing to report from me
Counting down and trying not to overanalyze everything. Timing is Divine.


----------



## Butterfly1976

Wow Kris OMFG indeed! Really hoping that Tuesday brings good news for you, what a rollercoaster!! I think you more than deserve as many chocolates as you like to get you through until Tuesday, it must be agony for you xx  

Lulu - congrats on being PUPO and on your lovely frosties xx

Tigersmiles - Sorry about your BFN, you are so strong on this journey. I really do think its a game of ,odds and if we keep trying we've got to get that lucky embryo xx

Tootles - I do like Nurture, only couple of criticisms is that it always seems to be a different nurse or consultant each time which is a shame as I'd like some continuity, also their new policy of getting all embryos to 5 days seemed really harsh but thats mainly because we only had 3 and I was so scared that I'd end up with none to transfer. I do understand what they say though, that if they don't get to blasts they aren't going to form a pregnancy, it just seemed harsh at the time.

Love to all xx


----------



## Tiger Smiles

I love this page - you guys are all so fab!
Just a quick one to say thanks as I'm typing in bed and about to hit the lights.
Took the day off work and going to speak to a lady I heard on The Fertility Podcast on Itunes, which is fabulous btw. 
But the lady offers support and counselling. so fingers crossed. Got Dr review on Friday. So tired now, all that random crying!


----------



## Syd72

Quick scan update, I'm on day 9 of meds and at 10mm and trilaminar   Very happy with that, last month on day 12 I was only at 7mm and no triple layer.  So either the beetroot juice has worked for me, or it's the fact I'm doing a bit of exercise each day whereas last month I was travelling constantly on the lead up, or it's luck of the drawer and I just happen to have good lining this cycle!  Waiting to hear how the donor is doing.


----------



## LuluLimon

Syd great news on the lining! I think it varies month to month, but it's a positive if trilaminar and 10mm already 😀
Butterfly glad to hear from you xx 
Tiger- that's good you found a podcast and can speak to someone. I haven't herd of it but will check it out.

Kris 😘😘😘hang in there chick.
Tootles- hi there.

Hope you're enjoying the snow! I'm busting myself with decluttering the spare room- my work haven't sent anything over for a week as I said I was recovering from an operation and I'm twiddling my thumbs. X


----------



## coconuts

Hi there I am new so hope I am posting in the right place!
I am over 40 and also in monitor cycle with AGRC - ive posted in cycle buddies too as it would be good 
to find someone to go for a coffee with in London (in my hopeful but possibly terrifying) experience lined up with ARGC
if all goes ahead.

Also - I am thinking ARGC has great success rates up to 42 but not 43/44, does
anyone know what UK clinic has the best success rates in my age group?
It is so hard to find the info. 
My only issue is age, going straight to IVF because of age. All else OK, but AMH low end of normal at 1.25ng/ml.
Im slowly getting over the "obsessed with stats" phase as apparantly its all black magic Ive been told!

Looking for a cycle buddy who might be in London around the same time as me.
Im in Edinburgh so will have to set up camp.
Im supposed to have a day 9 AFC scan tomorrow but the snow might prevent me. Im hoping
day 12 will be OK but might be after ovulation??!!
Advice wouold be great! xx


----------



## Kris76

Hi Ladies

Great news on the lining Syd. Sounds like you are coming along nicely.

How are you holding up Lulu? I'm hoping it sticks.

Butterfly, how are you? You should have your follow up coming up soon?

Tootles, how are things your way?

Tiger smiles, great to hear you are going to speak to someone. I also have my first session in the morning. Ill have to download the podcast. I am sure it will help. I understand how tiring all the crying can be.

Welcome Coconuts, you have come to the right place. The ladies on this thread are just incredible and it's the first place I turn to when I'm feeling rubbish. I'm London based and happy to meet up with you. I started to cycle at ARGC but wasn't very happy there, so I switched to the Lister. You can check https://www.hfea.gov.uk/, they give the success stats of clinics. However, I used to be obsessed with stats, one thing I learnt from this process is that they really don't matter. Everyone is different, it comes down to the quality of your eggs. I hope you manage to have your scan tomorrow.

AFM, I'm still bleeding daily, however, tonight, I had a heavy fresh bleed with a fairly large clot. So I think I may have miscarried. I feel devastated, bawled my eyes out. I am going to go to the clinic first thing in the morning and will get them to scan me to confirm. I feel sick to my stomach about it. I really hate this whole business, it's so painful. Why can't it just bloody work for us all.


----------



## Syd72

Kris, I'm desperately hoping it's not what you think it is.  There are so many women who have heavy clotty bleeding and all is ok, will be watching for your update.

Welcome coconuts.  Unfortunately most clinics have only a low success rate at our age.  ARGC have a very good reputation, particularly for close monitoring and adjusting things as necessary which I believe is important.  I've cycled at Oxford and Lister who were also very good, I believe Oxford had a slightly higher success rate age 44 than Lister but to be honest I'm not sure that matters.  I think it's about finding a clinic with a good reputation that you are comfortable with.  Do you have any idea when you normally ovulate?  I know I'm normally around day 14/15 so day 12 would be fine for me but it depends on your individual cycle.  I'm based in Hong Kong but will be in the UK for most of April so possibly around for your actual cycle?

Hi to Lulu, Tiger, Butterfly and Tootles, hope everyone is ok.


----------



## Tootles

Morning ladies 

Kris, the worry of all this must be so hard. You're in this limbo which is impossible to do anything other then worry and resign yourself in yet there is always that glimmer of hope.  I hope it's not what you think. This process is just so cruel emotionally and physically.  You just want to know one way or another now. I hope the scan today gives you an answer.  

Lulu, how are you feeling? I'm very jealous of your thumb twiddling! Are you pootling about looking for things to do? I soooo wish I was. I think if I told my work that my eyes had fallen out they'd still ask me to write that report before midnight! Hope you are feeling calm and comfy. 

Syd that sounds brill! You must be so pleased. What sort of exercise are you doing? How much beetroot juice are you quoffing?  I went down the pineapple juice route with my first round and totally over did it. I can't face to even look at the stuff now! Same with avocado. I used to love them too!  If only IVF recommended chocolate cookies and vino!

Tiger, I hope your review goes well today and you get some answers and encouragement. I find my reviews have been very much about the science, and sometimes we want some medical input into the emotions too so hope the counselling can do that for you. Sending you a big squeeze xx 

Butterfly, I agree, it would be so much more reassuring to see the same nurse each time, and know that it's the same doctor reviewing the results. I didn't know about their new policy on getting to day five. I was told by the doctor that they'd push any goers to day six, but then the embryologist said that they'd never do that, so all a bit confusing. 

Welcome coconuts! Would love to hear about your ARGC experience. A friend had four rounds in Dublin with no success. She then went to ARGC and had twins. It's a clinic I've heard rave reviews about, but also the exact opposite so I hope your experience there is a positive one. I contacted the HFEA to ask if it was possible to search their website for the best clinic in the uk for our age group. Unfortunately their website doesn't have that function, which I think is a bit of an oversight on whoever designed it. That said, I defo agree that stats don't always mean success. Finding a clinic where you feel they are doing their very best for you is so important. My clinic is good on the science bit, but for me, lacking in the organisation and support part.  I'm sticking with them because the science is more important for me, and I have the amazing ladies on here for the support / moaning / stressing / giggling / beard updates / guilty crushes / tears AND success stories so please do join us! 

AFM,  I decided to take some advice I read on the forum about getting the meds from Asda so I called them for a quote. Amazed that they are over £300 cheaper. In the grand scheme of things, that's not much, but every little helps so off I went to organise prescriptions and needles. It was a bit of a faff, but I think I'm almost there.  I was a bit annoyed to find out that the company my clinic uses to provide meds, tells me the reason they are more pricey is because my clinic adds on a bit of profit. I have no issue at all with the principle of that, but I do think that the clinic should tell people so they know they have the choice. After all, it's the IVF process that I pay my clinic for and not the meds.  

Wow! I am becoming a grumpy old woman! I think it's the lack of booze and caffeine, and nooky!  What I would give for a cocktail filled night!! 

Looking like I won't be able to make my miscarriage appointment with Prof Quenby today as it's awful where I live. Gutted as took two months to get the appointment! Buggeration!! 

Hand me the gin!


----------



## Viv123

Helloooo! I hope you don't mind me joining you all! I'm in the limbo land of immune treatments with Dr Gorgy before starting my third cycle with ARGC, looking like May and looking for that support. I have made some wonderful friends on here who now all have their BFPs which is so great and would love to join a supportive group on here 
Argc have been amazing, very thorough, they are like a machine and I like that in depth monitoring ( Tooties in answer to your question) but even though I have a good response to the protocol and good number of embryos still BFN's and I am told that it is due to age an egg quality which is frustrating! Anyways moving on! Dr Gorgy has us on antibiotics and lots of other interesting tests  that ARGC don't do that might shed light on what is going on as well as working on egg quality.
Coconuts, I will be around as I am coming and going for tests at the moment and checking in with ARGC
Hope to get to know you all in the next few months and wish you all lots of baby dust!xox


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Not good news for me unfortunately.  Had a scan before, while the gestational sac is still there, the sonographer couldn't see a yolk sac.  The nurse said that is not a good sign at 6 weeks.  However, if its calculated from the first date of the last period then I should be at 5 weeks. The nurse said to wait until next week and it may still shed by itself.  My bleeding has slowed right down now, so I don't think that will happen.  The Dr that saw me, not my consultant, I have never seen this lady before, said that I should go ahead and have a ERPC.  I can do it through the NHS for no cost or through them which will be almost £3k. I don't know how long it will take to have it done with the NHS.  I want to get back on track as soon as possible. 

I am completely traumatised by this and cannot stop sobbing. I feel so drained. So hard to stay positive.


----------



## LuluLimon

Kris what a horrible time you are having. I know it's a horrible limbo place to be. I wouldn't book in an ERPC yet- wait til Tues as you never know- especially this early on, I've had 3 ERPC's- I wouldn't rush into one as there is a chance of it scarring and I would not have one now unless it were a later MC. If it is an early MC, I would be tempted to manage it naturally- I did this for my two ones from FET. It didn't take long and I'm someone whose body naturally holds onto things. You could take pills. My body came back to a normal cycle quite quickly- my first period was 5 weeks then bang on 31 days. 
I really would hold on til Tuesday ,and maybe your regular consultant, if you can. 

The thing to take away is that YOU GOT PREGNANT. That means you CAN do it again- it might not have been the golden embryo- but that embryo is out there.

There is nothing any of us can say to make you feel better, but we are here xxxxx


----------



## LuluLimon

Viv hello and welcome! Going luck Herr ready for your cycle. I did my immunes- with Dr Gorgy but chose to cycle at ZW instead ☺
Watching the snow again!!

Tootles- some people I work for still forget I only work Tues- Thurs( or odd hours on the weekend). I have to repeatedly put my OOO on for my normal weekend. Grrr- then they expect me to do things sent Friday by Monday. Well, it's better than travelling back and for to Brussels/ Geneva at the moment given our weather. My DH had to WAH on Wednesday- which he did so badly- though it nice getting tea/ hotties and snacks every 30 mins! 
One week left til OTD.. Going to try and do something nice this week-end- other than a much needed legwax!.

Hi Syd/Butterfly/ coconuts x


----------



## Kris76

Thanks for the advice Lulu, its helpful.  I can't believe you've had 3, how horrendous for you.  How do you continue to manage to cope?  I'm struggling.  Feel numb.  I will wait.  I made an appointment with my GP for tomorrow morning for a referral to the NHS.  I think they prefer to give meds first to try and get rid of it naturally.  Ill go with that. Glad to hear that you bounced back quickly.  I'm keen to go again.  I know I have 3 frosties, however, I have decided to cycle another time to try and get more.  I know it may not make sense but I am panicking now. 

Yes, my OH keeps saying that, it's good news I got pregnant and I am glad for that.  However, this is really hard to go through.  Never would I have imagined I would go through any of this. 

Glad you are doing so well with your 2ww.  I really hope you get your BFP. I hope all the ladies on this thread have BFPs. 

Hope everyone else is well. 

xxx


----------



## Tootles

Oh Kris, I'm so sorry you're having to go through this. You must feel so drained by it all. I hope that your body manages to deal with everything naturally.  I know that it won't feel like it, but you will get through this and you will be all the stronger for it. It's such a complete shock when we get so close to the goal. I know the feeling when you think it's all been for nothing, but I promise you that will pass and you'll be ready to go again.  Sending you a massive hug, and my OH sends a man pat to yours xx


----------



## Kris76

Thanks Tootles.  Yes, completely drained but at the same time I can't sleep. Its not looking likely, as my bleeding has now pretty much come to a stop and the sac is still in my uterus. I am definitely going to have to intervene. Its taken us 14 months to get here and to end like this is horrendous.  I look forward to start feeling a bit more normal. Ha, thanks for the man pat.  Ill pass it on.


----------



## Syd72

Kris I’m so so sorry, I’ve been exactly where you are now and it is just so awful. I found it was a combination of being totally devastated plus a tiny glimmer of hope which seemed to make things worse. I also know how it feels to just want it over. My first one wasn’t happening naturally either and I went to see my reflexologist who specialises in fertility, she got things moving for me. The second time I took medication. Thinking of you x


----------



## Kris76

Thanks Syd. You summed up how I'm feeling. I know you ladies have all been through it more than once. 

I went to my acupuncturists and she gave me treatment to try and bring it on naturally. I'll see how I go over the weekend. Feeling pressure and some pain now, still bleeding. I have a referral at the Early Pregnancy Unit at Chelsea and Westminster. I'll know more this coming week. 

Xx


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Kris76 – I’m sending you a virtual hug  you’ve been through such a rollercoaster.   Echoing 'Lululimon': “The thing to take away is that you got pregnant.” I hope the remedies this weekend are gentle on you. Are you going to try and take time off work next week? I'm just speaking from experience.  This is emotionally and physically draining and putting a brave face next week at work may not help. Thinking of you. X

Syd72 – Beetroot juice to help lining – not heard of that either. But let's all be honest, I'm sure we'd all drinks elephants urine mixed with white lightening if it got us pregnant!

Lululimon – did you enjoy St David's day? I smiled at your Kiwi guy, mine is part Kiwi too.  But ooh melatonin, I like the sound of that and thanks for the website. The podcast I listen to is simply called The Fertility Podcast, she went through treatment herself and she interviews experts. It's really good. Counting down with you to OTD day. 

Tootles- OMG yes yes yes to Asda, so sorry I thought I'd put it on here as well. We've save hundreds. I am gutted that I opened our Menopur and then we had a failed cycle. That's the most expensive! How you feeling today?

Welcome Viv and Coconuts – I love that name it makes me smile. Welcome to the page. I don't know about anyone else but this is a great page as we are all similar ages and in the same boat. Honestly I think when it comes to over 40's the success results are vague – but other people may have more evidence. I was with CARE for five rounds and the first few they were great. But by the end of it, we felt a little like cash cows. But some of the nurses were outstanding.

AFM
Sat here in part sports gear and comfortable trousers, trying to psych myself up to go to the gym so I can reward myself with a sauna. You know when you are cycling we are told to stay away from hot baths and sauna’s. But as I’m in between 6th and WTF to do next - I want to treat myself!

Thanks for the tips on the counsellor guys we saw her on Thursday. I was saying to Tootles, I honestly thought my heart was going to break in there. When I was looking at my hubby and he was talking about his pain and I could just see in his eyes how much he wanted a baby honestly…it was so incredibly hard. But it as really useful, I was speaking to a guy called Richard from last year's Fertility Show he has got a private men's ******** group called Mensfertility group on their. Also who knew that The Fertility Network has a support telephone number?

Also had review on Friday - the consultant looked at us with sorrow I guess, but in a nutshell there is nothing other than DE they can offer. But the way in which she talked about it, wasn’t supportive with language such as “God forbid you have to go down that route”. It’s a very real possibility so we’d only go with someone and somewhere that is supportive of that. Overseas perhaps?
But something she did flag up something she said “only when couple’s have had 5 or 6 treatments do I suggest a “Hysteroscopy” to see if there is anything inside the womb.
. My thoughts are - if that was to help in anyway - surely flag it up earlier than letting couples be traumatised. Sigh

Right finishing on a positive, it took me so long to write this post - that I am going to to gym after all! Much love to you all.


----------



## Syd72

Ha ha, you’re right Tiger, we’d drink pretty much anything to improve our chances.  I have seen so many people on here that thought thy had no issues but then a hysteroscopy found something. Also a lot of women that had a hysto in the uk which found nothing then had one abroad which found all sorts. If you do end up going to a clinic overseas I would consider having the hysto there too.

I got the email last night to say I need to be in Greece by Thursday, will have transfer either Thursday or Saturday. She’s never suggested a 3 day transfer before so that’s interesting. I’d already booked my flight to arrive Wednesday so that’s worked out well.

Love to everyone x


----------



## Kris76

Hi Tiger Smiles, thanks, however, I feel bad as many of you have been through it multiple times. I need to stop with the pity party. I'd love to take time off but it's my busiest time of year and there's no one else that can pick up the work. I'm using work as a distraction from my thoughts. 

Ha, exactly, I'd consume anything if I knew it would work. 

Thanks for mentioning the podcast. I downloaded the episodes, there are some really great ones. 

My clinic said they only do a hysto after multiple failed cycles. I'm so sorry to hear of all your troubles. Will you start looking into DE? As I've said before, I used to feel odd about it but now, I'm so thankful that there are women out there willing to give their eggs to others in need. Also, that the door is not shut if OE doesn't work. There's still a chance, grateful for that. I wish you the best of luck with your next chosen path. 
Well done on the gym, my excuse would be that's it's too cold to go. However, the sauna sounds great. Been avoiding those and I love them 

Syd, that is super exciting about transfer this week. Lucky you booked your flight back in time. My first transfer was 3 days. I've read studies to say there is very little difference in success rates between 3 and 5 day transfers. I hope Greece is a bit warmer than the UK at the moment. 

I was meant to go to the Women's March in London today, however, I'm still bleeding and hoping to pass the sac naturally. So better thought I'd stay put. Plus, I don't feel great, nor mentally capable. 

Lulu, Tootles, Butterfly, Pauli, Viv, Coconuts, hope you are all doing well. Lots of love to all. Id be completely lost without all of you wonderful ladies. Xx


----------



## Bics76

Hello all,

Please can I join you? I have been following your thread and you all sound lovely so I took the plunge and joined FF hoping to have some friendly company during all of our IVF journeys. I'm 42 and have just started my IVF cycle (I'm currently on Norethisterone which I stop on Friday following which I should get my period and then will hopefully start stims).

My story is sadly very similar to yours Butterfly. I am so very sorry. My beautiful baby son was stillborn at 34 weeks 18 months ago now. He was a miracle, as it took years and rounds of IVF to have my first son and it was a complete surprise to get pregnant naturally at 39 nearly 40. So to lose him really broke me and my husband and the last 18 months have been full of sadness with the double whammy of trying unsuccessfully to get pregnant again and all the disappointment that brings which we all know only too well. I did get pregnant again in March last year, again naturally, but I miscarried. I also had a failed frozen cycle in July. Honestly, I think my body is scared about getting pregnant again - I know I am, even though I want it so much if that makes sense. I'm starting a fresh cycle this time with PGS and I'm praying for another miracle. 

I'm very sorry that you're all also on this sad journey although I'm happy to have the company of people who understand along the way (if you'll have me!). Kris, I've been reading your posts and I'm so very sorry for what has happened. 

Anyway, enough yakking from me. I'm at Hammersmith, which was not given enough thought really, especially when I read about all of the research you have all done re success rates etc and in some ways they have, once again been rubbish. But it's where I had 2 successfully cycles (the first ending in an ectopic and the second resulting in my first son). I'm under the care of the consultant I saw after my stillbirth and was wonderful although he's actually from St Mary's. So I'm hoping. 

I said I'd stop yakking didn't I? I'll stop now!


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Bics - So sorry to read about your little boy, its just the worse thing in the world and so unfair. I will never understand why I got pregnant at 39 and got all the way through my pregnancy only for her to die, I just can't make any sense of it. Your story does sound very like mine, and I've been so sad to find out how many babies die each day, it's just heartbreaking to know that other people have to go through it too   We haven't been lucky enough to get pregnant again since her birth in June 2016 but I'm terrified that if/when we do I just don't know how I'd cope with another loss. I'm so sorry to hear about your MC, you are one strong lady to be where you are now. It always amazes me just how much strength all of us have xx

Kris - I'm so sorry that you are having to go through this, as Lulu said try and take the positive from it that you did get pregnant, but I know it must be just horrible  

Syd - Wow you must be excited about transfer, wishing you all the luck in the world xx

Tootles - I had no idea that you could get your drugs from anywhere but the company the clinic use, feel such a fool! Will deffo check out Asda for round 2 x

Tigersmiles - How are feeling about DE? It's something I really thought wasn't for me before I started IVF but after only one failed round I think I'd consider it now. Totally understand it's a really difficult one and its something to think long and hard about. There is always the chance that you will get that lucky embie next round, someone has to be that success percentage xx

AFM - Nothing much to report, back to trying naturally this cycle, then follow up appointment on 20th to see about our 2nd round of IVF

Love to all you fab ladies xxx


----------



## Bics76

Hi Butterfly - thank you for your lovely message and I'm so very sorry about your precious little girl. Yes, it's so unfair to lose our babies so late on and it feels almost like a cruel trick when we fell pregnant naturally at our ages and our joy became such sadness. Like you, I am shocked by the number of women suffering this every year and my heart is broken whenever I read about someone else who has been through this. In a way, though, it is comforting to know that you are not alone, as stillbirth is such an isolating thing and still very much a taboo, which makes it even more painful. I hope that makes sense. Bless you - I don't feel strong but in a way you are numb to everything that comes after a stillbirth aren't you, especially after getting past the incredibly dark immediate period afterwards. I hope so much that you get your happier ending. I hope we all do  

Sorry to derail the thread with sadness. The positivity of you ladies has been inspiring.

On a practical note, the Asda tip is very welcome as I have to buy my meds this week. Thank you! 

Am wishing everyone so much luck xx


----------



## Syd72

Kris, it doesn't matter if you've gone through it once or a hundred times - the fact that this is the first time you've gone through it (and hopefully the last) doesn't make your feelings and upset any less valid than anyone elses!  How's the bleeding now?  

Bics, welcome, and so sorry for what you've been through.  Have you had the chance to get any counselling?  It might help if you feel scared to go through pregnancy again, which I completely understand.  I only discovered this thread a few months ago but I love it, it's full of amazing, supportive, funny women 

Thanks Butterfly, good luck this month!

Tiger, that is a terrible attitude from your consultant!  I absolutely agree, you need to find a clinic that is fully supportive and positive about you cycling with donor eggs.  There are plenty like that abroad, but I'm sure there are loads in the UK too.  It depends on things like whether or not you want donor id release, how long waiting times are etc etc.

Hi to viv, tootles, lulu, viv and anyone I've missed.


----------



## Kris76

Hi Bics, welcome.  From the bottom of my heart I am so sorry to read of your loss.  it is completely unimaginable and utterly cruel.  I have no idea how you recover from such a tragedy. I guess we never really do but have to learn how to live with it.  I hope that you and your husband are taking care of yourselves. I really hope that you have a successful round.  As Syd said, the ladies on here are lifesavers.  There are times of sadness but also lightness. Its a wonderful haven to turn to.  

Thanks Syd, lots of firsts in this game. I was bleeding and passing clots during the week, the scan showed the sac was still in my uterus.  The bleeding slowed down on Friday.  I went to acupuncture on Saturday morning to help induce a natural mc.  Saturday evening and yesterday the bleeding got heavier and last night I passed a large liver looking clot, which freaked me right out.  That image will stay with me forever.  I still don't know if it is the sac.  It was in the loo and I didn't know what to do, fetch it, flush it? I was traumatised.  My OH convinced me, that there is nothing I can do about it and we don't know if its the sac or not.  He flushed it as I couldn't.  I'm still Not with that. I have my first counselling today, so I may bring it up. 

Not long now til your transfer, nervous and excited for you. 

Butterfly, the time will fly by until you have your follow up.  Its March already, ridiculous. You never know, it can always work naturally between cycles.  Happened to a friend of mine here. She now has a beautiful curly haired 2 year old. 

Happy Monday to everyone else.  I hope its a good week for all. 

xx


----------



## Bics76

Hi everyone, 

Syd and Kris, thank you so much for your lovely messages. I appreciate them so much. You're all so kind here and it genuinely feels like a great big hug coming here x 

Syd - We had bereavement counselling about 6 months after my son died as I couldn't face it before then. I never thought that counselling was for me (I actively didn't want to go) but I actually found it really helpful - we both did. I think it's a good idea to see about maybe getting some pregnancy after loss counselling (or not getting pregnant after loss counselling!). Hopefully that may take some of the fear away. When is your transfer? Sorry, I have read so much of this thread that I am not entirely sure which stage everyone is at. How are you feeling? 

Kris- I am so very sorry. What an awful time you've had and a horrible roller coaster of emotions. I was so sad reading your posts and thought of you a lot over this weekend. Words never seem enough in these moments but I'm thinking of you, sending love, and wishing you some gentler and much happier days very soon. Look after yourself and I hope that your counselling session today brings you a little peace. 

Butterfly - I also know someone who got pregnant naturally between cycles. Wishing you so much luck (and to everyone). 

This really does feel like a wonderful haven and I am so grateful to have found you all. Thank you x

x


----------



## magicpillow

Hi ladies, I haven't been on here for a few weeks.  Gosh Bics I'm so so sorry to hear of your loss.  To lose a baby at that stage is unimaginable.  Hope you've had good support.  Butterfly too - it's all so unfair.  You are very strong and brave ladies. 

Kris I'm gutted to read about you too, really sorry.  Hoped this would be your time. Hope you're getting lots of rest - make sure you take enough time physically and emotionally. 

I had my erpc on 9th Feb and had a week off afterwards.  I've been back at work since but utterly exhausted and have had a headache for 3 weeks solid.  Feel all hot and like I've got a virus the whole time.  I came home from work early today as just got no energy and I've got a GP appointment tomorrow.  Feel like I need some time off but feel bad as it's a new job.  We are having 6 months off thinking about treatment though it's hard to switch off from thinking about it.  I'm not sure I can ever face IVF again as even if I got pregnant, I'd be a ball of anxiety for the whole 9 months.  Hope everyone's ok today xxx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Bics - Every word of your post made perfect sense to me, I could have written it myself although I often struggle to find the words. I don't think of myself as strong either, I have been left with no choice but to carry on without my baby in my arms, it's not strength, it's just having no choice. Sometimes I think I must be crazy to be putting myself and DH through trying again and IVF but even though I'll always love my little girl we still want a baby so here we are on this rollercoaster with all these other fab strong women. Were you given a cause for your little boy's death? Our's was a small placenta which dosen't seem a good enough reason to me but I don't suppose that any reason would be good enough really.

Kris - You are quite right about not getting over the death of a baby, I'm told that you just get used to it as you say, but I'm not sure I will ever accept that she wasn't meant to be. And if I'm honest I don't want to accept it, I will call it unfair and cruel with my last breath.

So sorry for the negativity ladies, sometime life is just poo (being careful here as I got censored last time lol) Here's hoping for some good luck and buckets of baby dust for all of us. We all deserve it!!


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Thank you, so nice to have such support.  I went the to the early pregnancy unit today and was scanned, the gestational sac is still there and a yolk sac was seen this time.  MY OH and I had a moment of it's going to be ok, it was a mistake. Sadly, that moment was fleeting.  The fetal pole is unchanged.  They offered me meds to help bring it on, the Dr told me to expect a lot of bleeding and pain when trying to pass the sac.  I knew in that moment, that I can't go through with this anymore.  I can't take the horror of the bleeding and clots of the last 4 days. I opted to have an ERPC on Thursday.  My work is great, my boss, actually had a ERPC 2 weeks ago.  So completely understanding.  While I wanted to still work for the distraction, she has insisted I take a week off. 

I saw a lady come in to the EPU today sobbing, I overheard the nurse say she had experienced bleeding.  My heart broke for her.  I just wanted to hug her. I do hope it turned out to be nothing. So horrible. 

I had a counselling session at my clinic today as well.  It is helpful to talk it through with someone. 

Im sorry to hear Magicpillow.  Its still so recent for you. Could it be the change in hormones that is causing you to feel like that?  Ive been feeling really unwell too, thought perhaps it was the hormones. I know what you mean, I have been going to bed at 8pm. A break can be helpful and lets you fully heal.  I wish I had the time to give for a break but I feel under pressure re my age.  I know the anxiety is immense. 

I don't blame you Butterfly, I wouldn't be able to accept that she wasn't meant to be either.  Of course she was meant to be to you and your husband. It is horrendously cruel. Never apologies for how you feel, you're completely entitled. 

Hello to everyone else. 

xx


----------



## magicpillow

Butterfly as I was typing my post earlier I did think that really in these situations, you have no choice but to carry on however heartbreaking things are.  It's just beyond cruel and unfair. 

Kris sorry this has happened to you.  I don't blame you for opting for the erpc.  As soon as my miscarriage was confirmed I said straight away I wanted the erpc.  You don't know anything about it, minimal pain, hardly any bleeding.  I had to wait 2.5 weeks for it and was terrified it was going to happen naturally in the meantime.  Luckily it didn't.  I've been thinking about booking some counselling.  I haven't been very emotional this time but I think my feelings are coming out in anxiety and comfort eating.  

Yes I haven't really got time for a break with my age but I'm so utterly exhausted and my husband wants time out from it all.  Realistically it's going to be donor eggs or adoption so I feel like it's given me a a bit more time.  Struggling to accept I won't have a child that is genetically related to either of us.


----------



## LuluLimon

bics I've so sorry about your loss ((XXX)) There are no words but you have tremendous courage and grace, both you and butterfly x

Magicpillow- sorry you haven't been feeling well after the ERPC. I hope the time out will let you heal. I hope you did something as a momento. I have 3 camelia plants in our garden.
Kris so sorry it's still ongoing but you made the right decision for you and come Thursday that's it. Line in the sand. Not forgotten but forward looking.
Syd- that's all coming round quickly and good timing with your booking.

Hi Tootles/Tigersmiles-/Viv/Coconuts/Pauli 

Ladies I could do with some PMA or sticky dust vibes, I've had a tough weekend as lots of negative thoughts creeping into my head/lack of sleep/feeling ill. It's battered my usually sunny self and it's taken all my willpower to hold onto a ray of Hope.
OTD is Thursday and I'm bricking it to the point of not wanting to do it and stay in a bubble. 
Hugs xx Lulu


----------



## Tootles

lulu - keep going beauty. Banish those negative thoughts if you can. They won't make any difference to the positive outcome that we want, so kick them in the nuts! You're doing so well. I'm sending you a lorry load of happy, positive vibes.  

Kris - I completely understand why you'd go for an ERPC. I felt just as you described and felt it was the right choice in the circumstances. Just like MagicPillow too. I tried to think of the whole process as being the start of a new episode rather than the end of a cycle. It will be an utter turd of a day, but you will get through it and we'll all be thinking of you.  

Magic - lovely to have you back. Sorry you've been through an ERPC too. You must take some time off, especially if you're feeling poorly.  i couldn't agree more - this whole thing is ridiculously exhausting. Hope the GP can give you some answers and reassurance  

Butterfly - hope you're doing ok. Role on the 20th. Yep, life can be a massive pile of plop! But like me old mate Bon Jovi said, we gotta keep the faith! Hoping its second time lucky for you xxxxx

Bics - welcome to the thread. Your post brought tears to my eyes. It's just so unimaginable.  So you yak away you brave lady, and don't stop. If there is one thing to pull from all this, it's the hope and comfort that we can share on here. X

Syd - good luck for this week!  Hope you're feeling ok. Not long to go now. I've got everything crossed for you  

Hello to everyone else xxxxxx


----------



## Kris76

Hi Ladies

Magic, you should book in counselling.  I knew it can be terrifying going to it but just see how you go. If its not working for you, you can always stop.  I think you really need to go to help wrap your head around using a DE.  In fact, your clinic will probably make you go before you are able to go through with it.  Lucky you didn't have a miscarriage while you waiting for your ERPC.  You would not believe what is coming out of me, everything but the sac.  I was in a lot of pain yesterday and again today.  There's a chance I may not be able to have it done on Thursday as I need to get a scan report from my consultant from the 27th Feb.  Trying to get a hold of him is a nightmare, he won't respond to emails, I'm hassling the nurses his PA, still nothing. I can't bear to have this dragged on for another week.  Yes, I understand how you feel DE can buy you some more time. Id love to take time off in Thailand, drinking cocktails by the pool. 

Lulu, we hear you.  It's getting close now and I don't think anyone going through this doesn't have doubts as test day approaches. Fingers and toes are crossed for you. Try not to test early.  However, I love your idea of planting something for each MC.  I am going to plant something for this one.  Ill probably cry every time I look at it. 

Thanks Tootles, I have mixed feelings about it.  I don't want the pregnancy to be over and at the same time I need this to be done with.  Being a Bon Jovi fan from way back, Ill take that inspiration you gave Lulu!

Syd, how are you coping over there?

Hello to everyone else. 

x


----------



## Syd72

Ladies, just a quick update from me so sorry for lack of personals.  Arrived in Athens this afternoon, heading out shortly to meet someone for dinner.  I have an appointment for ET tomorrow which would be day 3 but I think they will say to leave it til Saturday.  11 eggs were collected and we have 10 embryos so slightly better than last time but of course if it is sperm issues, that will start manifesting from day 3.

Hope everyone is ok x


----------



## Kris76

Hi Syd, that great you've arrived and ready to go. I'd be surprised if they transfer tomorrow and not Saturday. That's a great number of embryos. Excited for you. I hope it all goes well. Xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Syd hope it goes to Sat for you xx a good number there.
Kris good luck for tmrw I hope the procedure can go ahead for you and for it to be over x
I've got delightful vagina burn from cyclogest !!


----------



## Kris76

Thanks. Feeling very low today. It's confirmed for tomorrow. 
Lulu how do you get vagina burn from cyclogest?! I leaned to put mine the other end, as I hated the seepage and lying down for 20mins. 
Good luck for your upcoming test. So hopefully for you. X


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Syd - 10 embies is really good, bound to be some great blasts in there for Saturday xx

Lulu - Wishing you buckets of luck for your test tomorrow xx

Kris - I'll be thinking of you tomorrow   xx

Love to everyone else xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Vagina burn..ouch I think from the discharge into my pantiliners (tmi)!! So swapped to other end and it's healing up.

Tentatively, it's a bfp!! After two CPs I'm pretty nervous, but the line was there with no squinting. I think I made myself nauseous through anxiety. Repeat, this one is different. My clinic want betas done but they make me stressed. 
Thanks for your wishes and hugs to all you for International Strong AF Women's Day 😊😘


----------



## Syd72

Wow lulu, congratulations, great news!  I understand that nervousness but hopefully you'll get a great result on the beta test which will help reassure you.  I get sore from the cyclogest too, I tried putting it in the other end a couple of days ago but that didn't seem to work very well either...

Kris I'm so sorry, thinking of you today.

Thanks for all the well wishes everyone x


----------



## Bics76

Hello all, 

Sorry for the delay. I have an awful virus I think, so I have been totally knocked for six. I hope this makes sense as I am reading through to catch up and typing as I go. Sorry if this epic. (Also sorry if I have forgotten anyone but scroll think is not working properly so I'm dizzy with the back and forth!)

Magic - thanks for your lovely message. I have been lucky in that I have lots of support and I have a really wonderful husband who has kept me moving when I didn't really know how. There have sadly been some disappointments along the way. I think people are very scared of stillborn (understandably) and sometimes deal with it by physically removing themselves from you, in a kind of "that could never happen to me way" so deal with that fear by avoiding you. Butterfly, I wonder if you have experienced the same? I hope not but I think it is quite common. 

I'm so very sorry about everything you have been through, compounded by being so ill after the erpc. I totally understand the feeling of needing time off. Trying for a baby is so all consuming, and the loss and disappointment so awful that sometimes it all feels too much. I hope the time off brings you some peace and rest. Take good care of yourself x 

Butterfly - I know exactly what you mean. There is literally no choice but to carry on even when you really don't want or know how to. I know exactly what you mean when you sometimes question how you could go through this all again. But that feeling of empty arms is so powerful isn't it? That awful feeling of yearning for something that is just out of reach. It's such a longing that it overcomes the fear of not trying again, although of course there is still so much fear. 

Like you, I will never accept that my son was not meant to be. Our babies were meant to be, I have to believe that, and I think the immediate and huge wave of love you feel when you meet your baby (despite how dreadfully sad the circumstances are) which continues every day thereafter, is testament to that. 

The cause of my son's death was Group B Strep, something I was always told was nothing to worry about unless I went into labour. So we felt (and feel) very let down. Like you said, though, no reason is good enough. I am so sorry. I have also realised that we do have so much in common. My son died in July just a month after your little girl. I always loved the summer but it's a bittersweet time of year now as it's when I finally met but also lost my precious boy. 

Lulu - thanks for your lovely message. OTD is today isn't it? I sending you so much PMA and have absolutely everything crossed for you. Hang on, I've just read further down. Wow!! Amazing news, I was so happy to read that! How exciting. Hang in there! xx


Syd, glad you got there safely and that's a great result on the embies!! All looking great for Saturday! 

Tootles - thank you for the lovely welcome. You are right, there is so much comfort here and I am so grateful. 

Kris, my lovely. I'm so sorry and I'm thinking of you so much today x


----------



## Tootles

Lulu!!!!! WONDERFUL!!! It’s another step Chick xxx
Sorry for short one - meant to be concentrating on a conference call!!  Work schmerk xx


----------



## Syd72

Started typing a reply last night but apparently forgot to send it.

Bics, really hope you feel better soon.

Tootles, best use of a conference call is updating ff 

So I've had my transfer, much to my surprise.  Although all 10 embies were still going only 4 (I think) were 8 cell yesterday and only 3 of those were looking really good so they advised transferring the best 2.  Doesn't make me feel very hopeful, and looking very unlikely we'll have anything to freeze.  So that's 2 different proven donors indicating that we must have a sperm issue we're not aware of.  OH won't consider DD so if this one doesn't work it's end of the road for us.


----------



## Bics76

Hi Syd, 

Thank you, I'm feeling a lot better than I was and hoping I can kick this before I start stims next week. 

Oh wow, you've had the transfer now. How are you feeling and how long are you in Athens? 2 good quality ones transferred is great! I really hope you do get to have one frozen too but it only takes one!


----------



## Bics76

Sorry, I sent too soon. Try not to worry about everything else now (I know that is much easier said than done). You have had your transfer with two good ones and that's a really good position to be in. Thinking of you. 

Kris, how are you doing? I've been thinking of you xx


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Wow lots of things happening. Lulu, a huge congrats on your BFP. That is wonderful news. What is BETA testing? I truly hope it sticks. When will you go back to the clinic? Amazing news, well deserved. 
As for the cyclogest, definitely go the other side. I didn't want to at first, when I had to before transfer. I thought what was i so worried about, so much easier this way and I never went back. 

Syd, it's done! I agree with Boca. You have transferred two excellent embryos, there's no reason for them not to work. I'm sorry to hear that you may not have any spares to freeze. Has the clinic offered any advice re your husband's sperm quality? Surely, they would've checked it before fertilisation? I know it's easier said than done, at least for the next two weeks done think ahead to much and just concentrate on making them sick. There's absolutely no convincing you husband to use a DS? I really hope it doesn't come to that and you have success now. My fingers are crossed. 

Bics, I don't know what to say about your little boy. My heart breaks for you and your husband. Yes, ppl often dont know what to do and pull away. However, real friends will never do that. You need to hang tight to the good ppl in your life to help pull you along. Sending much courage and love your way. 

AFM, I had the procedure yesterday. I went to the EPU and was scanned before as I  wanted to be 100% sure there are no mistakes.  Yolk sac was now visible (my heart kept for a brief moment) but still no heartbeat.  I was passing huge clots right up until  i went to theatre. Technically I went well. My uterus was filled with blood, I've had so much bleeding. As soon as I came to I felt it was gone and I sobbed my eyes out. The guy next to me in recovery was still high as a kite and kept pushing the curtain aside to introduce himself to me. The nurses name to my rescue and moved me.  I pretty much sobbed for the rest of the day. Physically I'm fine and the bleeding already has pretty much stopped. Mentally I'm struggling. Now I have to wait out for a period and go again. Even with frozen embryos, I'm going to have another collection first. Hopefully one normal egg can be found. I've booked a follow with my consultant on the 20th. 

Butterfly, Magic, Tiger smiles, Coconuts, Viv, hope all are doing well. xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Syd congrats on the transfer. We are all hoping these are stickies for you xx  Dont worry too much about anything else. When is your OTD?

Kris. Its over now Hun. Its not a great experience but you have been so brave. Be nice to your body and let it recover to do another collection. 

Bics glad your feeling better from your virus. I think this journey does tell you who friends and family are. I have had awfully insensitive reactions from close ppl to our miscarriages- I really think ppl don't believe it can happen to them so they don't have any empathy at all and they expect you to be normal around them and their pregnancies/babies. I imagine it's much worse with a stillbirth.  I just let ppl go now if they aren't going to offer support. My mum doesn't get it and asks me why we don't just give up. She's always saying "well everyone has their own problems". Our relationship has been really strained with it.

I am checking my blood tomorrow for HCG. Very nerve wracking. I feel ridiculously emotional and am crying at everything. If it's ok then I get it repeated Tuesday with more intralipids. I feel if i can get past that, my body knows what to do.


----------



## LuluLimon

Ladies I just wanted to wish you all big hugs for tomorrow- it's a hard day to get through so sending you all much love and wish that we all get our hearts desire 😘😘

Kris I hope you are resting well.
Butterfly, it's not long til your appointment. It'll be hear very soon.
Syd hope you are relaxing too. Til when do you stay in Athens?
Bics, Tootles, Viv, Coconuts, Tigersmiles-, Pauli- hope you are well

I just wanted to update my first bloods came back ok, except with low progesterone so I'm on double the dose- lovely, but Kris I agree backways is much better. So I have to go back in Monday to repeat but with more confidence- it's not a repeat of my last 2 Bfps.


----------



## Kris76

That's great news Lulu. Very exciting. The low progesterone is an easy fix. Keep inserting those little bullets! Your body has done it before, so as you said, it should know how to do it again. I hope your little one sticks. 

Just need a BFP from you next Syd. How are you feeling? 

My OH and I went out last night to distract me, however, I just ended up sobbing and had to come home. All the Mother's Day stuff everywhere doesn't help. I'm avoiding the shops until it's all gone. 

Hope everyone else is coping? Lots of love. Xxx


----------



## coconuts

Hi there Lululimon, Kris, Syd, Butterfly, Tootles, Tigersmiles, Magicpillow, Viv, Bics - hope I havent missed anyone. Quite a gang of wonderful nutters we are! Just want to say how amazingly inspirational and helpful you all are. 

Lululimon - wishing you continued positive sticky vibes. Thanks for pointing me to this group.

Kris - you mentioned you found out that the blood measurement stats dont mean too much in the end to the outcomes- yeah I agree now. I do worry though about how they affect protocol selection >40. It's crazy really that so little is understood about human fertility.

Syd - I never made the Day9 scan in London due to snow in Edinburgh, but I did make it on Day12 and they said I was due to Ov in 1-2 days. Me and OH tried to catch it but Im not sure if we did yet. Would be a bit of a surprise!

Tottles- you asked about ARGC - well I think for up to 41 they are really good and have spoken to a few prople about their experiences. One friend-of-a-friend I had lost touch with probably gave me the best advice, and also someone I didnt know but who is frendly with one of my friends. So far so good. The monitor cycle is a bit frustrating to begin with as i already had collected all the blood results. I'm nearly finished the monitor cycle and may be starting treatment on Friday 16th. About ARGC I had my concerns...the 50s decor, the oldish looking chairs, but Im getting to know that it runs very efficiently actually. I get blood results within a few hours. They call me with results and the nurses have all been very helpful. Im glad they will do daily monitoring when I start- maybe twice a day, it will be very intensive for 2-3 weeks and then we will see what happens... My only concern at the moment is that they are picking a "flare protocol" which i have read can provide quantity for our age-group but perhaps lower quality - and they seem to be reaching for this protocol first. They do actually have lower stats at >42 which i wonder is due to picking this protocol. There will be no downregulation which actually im happy about,  but there i go on those pesky stats again! Can't you tell Im at the start of my journey!!, soon I wont be worrying at all about stats, just that one good sticky egg! 

They will do a hysterscopy at day 1-3 of treatment. Actually I didnt want to do it, as my lining looks fire, but now after reading a few of your posts about not getting one early on I think I will take it now. I also opted for an Immune Panel test. This is more about MC prevention I understand.

Viv- I will probably start this Friday 16th all going well a flare cycle with ARGC, fingers crossed with my day 21 prog this week, and then also with my D1/D2 levels also. Such a pain that I have had two consecutive months of good FSH/LH levels <5 but I still need to pass the test for a third time. Anyway I think what I have learnt from reading all your wonderful posts is that its best to roll with this early stuff and just get on with it as the challenges ahead can be many and sometimes unexpected, both good and bad. I will let you know what my London plans are and see if we coincide there.


----------



## Viv123

Helloo everyone! You are are soo strong and just inspirational! I have been following with the updates and sorry I didn't get to post till now.
Kris I am soo sorry you have to go through this.  I'm so glad your hubbie is being a support. The hugest hugs to you.

Bics, Magic and Butterfly, your strength, what you ladies have gone through, there truly are no words as Lulu said.   
Magic I hope you get the time out you need to regroup and decide the next steps. Ive had the odd counselling session and they were really helpful to me. 
Bics glad you are feeling slightly better! It is just the worst being sick. My last cycle I came down with the flu the night I started stimms! the worst timing ever and I powered through, probably not the best thing in the world.. my energy levels were zapped!

Lulu! Such wonderful news! I know it must be super stressful now with the dreaded HGC levels but you are doing great! As Coconuts says, lots of sticky sticky vibessss! 

Coconut, thats interesting that a short protocol can cause an issue with egg quality.. i hadn't heard that before.. I thought a flare was better as it followed your natural cycle more? Def. let me know about London plans! 

Syd, wishing you a BFP!! XOX

AFM, trying to get DH on board with his nutrition advice from the nutritionist.. he is taking his sweet time! Other than that.. LIT this week with DR G and my humira retest too and just trying to distract myself from the immune limbo land! 

Hello to anyone I've missed, Tigersmiles & Tootles! xox


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hey ladies, 
Just checking in and saying a weekend hey, feels like the only time I can reply properly as I am seemingly incapable of replying from my mobile. I know how grandma is that lol! (If anyone knows how then please let me know) I’ve been reading what’s been going on with you all this week and woah another topsy turvy week for us all. Sorry this is an epic post, I wanted to make sure I reply to you all as you are fab! Sorrry if I've missed anyone out, but about to get off this train and want to send it before I get off!  

Krys76 I had a lump in my throat when I was catching up with you. This process can be so consuming, exhausting and hateful. But don’t let go of your dream if that is what you and your partner still want. And thanks for your words for, it’s OK chick. We’ll get there one way or another.   Sending you positive vibes. You mentioned having a period first and going again? There's some evidence to say that back to back cycles work best I know the specialist NY fertility advocates this.I  did just that but wish I’d caught my breath. And as you said you went out last night and you got upset. I wish I could give you a big hug, honestly hon. What you are feeling is normal. But catch your breath.xx

Tootles -  I’ve stopped crying now lol and have found a certain strength in listening to Beyonce’s “Flawless” and Whitesnake “Here I go again” - what a mix of songs haha How are you?

Lulu- How are you? I’m sorry you were feeling down earlier this week, but amaaaaaaazing news on the BFP.
My bit of advice to all of us (including me)  going through this is, sob, cry and then get out and get some fresh air, go for a walk, do what you love, see only people who make you laugh and smile. It sounds crazy - but have been so times when I’ve had physically had to drag myself off the sofa, literally let out a loud scream and I’ve turned some of my fave music very loudly and danced around the living room with disco ball!  And thanks for kind words Lulu  about my 6th BFN. I dance and DH has taken to building things so if we continue to have more BFN’s - perhaps he’ll build a house made of wood!  And good that you’ve got to Cyclogest stage - the vaginal burn struggle is real! I chickened out and have opted for back passage. Even then I was constantly paranoid that a white patch would develop through my jeans lol

Syd72 - Wow amazing you got ten eggs and ten embies in Greece and spreading baby dust on the two inside you. Fingers crossed that all goes well. You said it maybe the end of the road for you guys as DH won’t consider DE. For the moment put that out of your head lovely. Have you taken any time off work? I think lots of us on this group in particular have got lots going on, particularly with. When we go next time, I am going to be completely selfish tbh. Work can - and importantly will have to wait. As I said, I'm sure I'd have a lovely obit, but I'd still be childless. 

Butterfly  - How’s the natural cycle going? So sorry to hear about your little girl. Hold on to your dream. Xx I think that what we may do that before trying again be honest, I just think I need to rest my body. But thinking about buying Ovusense? Anyone heard of it

Coconuts: Sounds like you've moved a pace with selecting your clinic. Good luck for Friday 16th, do let me know how the Hysterscope goes lovely and remember you can request to see only specific nurses, we did at Care and it made it a lot easier. After “bum hole gate” (one of the nurse almost put the bloody thing nearly in my bum hole!) Yeah didn’t see her again. Fingers crossed for you. xx

Hi Viv123 - I’ve not said hi before.  Hope you are little less in limbo land?
Hi to Bics76 too - reading your story is heartbreaking, stay strong and big to Magic pillow

AFM
My boobs are massive - like huge! I don’t know whether it’s post cycle or what. But they are frankly annoying and tender. Obvs DH doesn’t mif lol. This week a colleague who I know is going through the same thing asked me this week “How do you still carry on after six rounds?”. I said - and this is the truth. I can feel that we will have a child, but if and when that feeling goes then I and we will stop.
On reflection but if we do go the DE route, CARE Manchester isn’t for us as some of the terminology by the specialist was hurtful. As I mentioned  when we asked about DE said “god forbid”. Cheers luv!
I really need to try the melatonin tablets that were suggested, as my sleep pattern has gone haywire and the first time since I was a teen I’m having night screams, I basically wake up screaming but I don’t realise I’ve been screaming for a while. They are brought on by extreme stress  - so it figures. Lordy lord! 
Looking forward to the Hystercope appointment in a few weeks but they changed it to the same day as I’ve organised girls day and night out. Each time a cycle doesn’t work, I adopt “f it” attitude and make a huge splurge. Guess that is the only thing I can control. So thinking of actually moving the appointment I know I know ladies Ahh sigh
Ending on a positive, someone I know has a DE - she is 49 and is now five months pregnant and trust me this lady has not been an angel, so shoot if it can happen for her. There is truly hope for us all!


----------



## Syd72

Morning ladies.  

Tiger, could it be that you're just not logged in on your mobile?  Thanks for your thoughts, I've taken time off the last twice and decided not to this time.  I am actually still in Athens til Wednesday, just working from here, so I feel pretty relaxed.

Thanks Viv, my OH isn't big on healthy eating either.

Coconuts, if you dtd a couple of days before ovulation that's perfect timing, fingers crossed.

Thanks for asking Kris, I'm so sorry.  Mother's Day is absolutely crap, I forgot and started browsing ******** yesterday.  I'm glad it's all done and you can start to move on although it takes some doing, I really hope having a plan helps, I know it does with me.

Lulu, great that your level came back ok, hope all goes well today.  My progesterone level came back very low on transfer day so i got switched to progesterone injections - haven't had any trouble with them so far.

I had a call on Saturday saying my two remaining embryos were only at the morula stage instead of blast, they would watch them for one more day to see if they caught up but if not they wouldn't be suitable for freezing.  This is why I have so little hope for the two that were transferred, there's clearly something very wrong with the sperm if it's all bfns and nothing to freeze with two different donors.  I guess the one thing we could try is with fresh sperm instead of frozen but given the distance and the fact my oh is self employed I have no idea how we would manage that.  I also don't know that it would make any difference...  I know I sound really defeatist but I guess I'm just trying to be practical, I kind of feel ok.  We'll see what happens next week.

On the plus side I had a lovely weekend in Athens.  The weather was gorgeous so I spent Saturday laying on a sunbed by a natural spring/lake and Sunday over on one of the nearby islands eating lovely fresh sardines and reading my book overlooking the sea.

Hi to everyone else x


----------



## Syd72

Sorry, another quick update.  We do have two to freeze...  Yesterday was day 6 and we had one expanding blast AA and one full blast AB so they've been frozen.  Not sure of the success rate of day 6 blasts so needless to say I'm googling like mad.


----------



## LuluLimon

Syd that's great! I have 2 hatching blasts too and did last time. I think equal chances of success they have just progressed naturally in the dish. Mine defrosted fine.
I'll do a proper reply later as I'm currently over the moon our 2nd bloods confirmed a Pregnancy so now waiting til 27th and our scan x


----------



## Viv123

Hello all! 
Tiger smiles, hello!!  Definitely try melatonin. Its brill! I have been using it on-off and my nutritionist recommends it all through stimms up till egg collection. Thats terrible that Care M said that about DE! Grrr, such flippant remarks make me so mad! 
Syd! It sounds sooo lovely there! Who are you with in Athens? Thats fantastic about your day 6 blasts! 
Lulu! SOo happy for you!! YAY! xox

Hugs to all.xxx


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Great news Syd well done! (and you were right about simply logging in on my mobile)
Thanks again Viv123


----------



## Tootles

Hi ladies
Syd - two to freeze is great. How are you feeling? Athens sounds lovely and I'm soo glad you are getting some time to try and relax. When do you return?

Tiger - dont blame you for not wanting to use Care Manchester! Comments like that are just totally unnecessary and really thoughtless. It amazes me just how insensitive people can be. Ahh I see you too have a good old case of IVF timing! Hope you have a fabulous girls day and night out. What have you got planned? I hope there's going to be some group singing in there! 

Coconuts - thanks for the ARGC info. They sound like the most thorough clinic ever.  I agree, shabby chairs are fine with me if the IVF success is good.  The flare protocol sounds interesting.  Good luck with it. Not long to go before Friday. It feels so good to get started.  Hope you are the right level of calm, excited and zen! 

Viv - tell me about it! Trying to get my other half to eat properly, drink less, stay off his flipping bike and take the 'one' supplement (while I practically rattle with the darn things) is impossible! The clinic told him that he has super sperm which did me no favours as he thinks he doesn't need to do anything other than perform on the day!  Good luck with yours! Let me know if you find any tricks!

Kris - how are you doing today? Yep, Sunday was never going to be easy but so much tougher after what you have been through. It's really good that the procedure went to plan, and that physically your body is recovering.  The 20th will be here in no time. Hoping you are working through all this and that you can see some light at the end of the tunnel. Sending you a big hug chick xx

Lulu - keep that good news coming please!  Those naughty cyclogest bullets are a joy aren't they?!  Hoping you are feeling well and taking it easy. Another step closer beautiful X 

Bics - how are you doing? Hope you're ok right now. It's good to read that your DH has been a rock for you.  I can only imagine that supporting each other is just so essential. What are the next steps for you both?  

Hi to anyone I've missed.

AFM - insomnia has moved in. Awake at 2.50am most days now.  I usually just get up and start work, but had a particularly crappy day with work yesterday and am very much in the 'two fingers up to work' mind set right now! Sexism is alive and kicking in my office and at the moment it feels particularly hard to swallow as I know the stress has taken its toll on my body over the years. It's like going in to a private boys club every day and after 20 years of it, I'm knackered! I can honestly say it's getting worse which is just sad. Sorry for the rant!

I started my down reg drugs last night and I'm desperately trying to stay calm and focused, but failing miserably! It's going to take more than some whale music and a scented candle to calm me down this time!


----------



## Viv123

Hello all!!

Tootles, it is painful with my DH... to be fair he is feeling so ill from the antibiotics ( as he doesn't eat brekkie-grrr) so all he has been eating is sandwiches! But his training is intense running and he is wearing this tight onesie thing so he sweats to loose a bit of weight... Im internally screaming, but externally i am saying zip. He is taking all his vitamins so I guess its a case of picking your battles. I do dread going through all this expense if there is a male factor tho. DH's Dna fragmentation came back borderline. 
I;m sorry your work is making you feel like that, sounds awful! Can you take time out? Can I ask you if you are Down regging are you on a long protocol? I am 40 and have only ever been on short protocols so curious about long...xx


----------



## Syd72

Thanks Tootles.  I'm fine although the higher dosage of progesterone is making me shattered all the time.  I fly to the UK tomorrow.  Your work situation sounds crap - how can that still be the case in this day and age - we all know it exists but to be so blatant.  Hope you're feeling ok with the drugs.

Viv, you and I could be with the same man except mine doesn't run   I'm on my own in Athens, we live in Hong Kong so it's just not sensible to keep flying both of us over, he came over the first time but every trip since I've done on my own.


Thanks Tiger.

Thanks Lulu, it's the fact they didn't make it to blast until day 6 that I'm worried about.  Great news about the second blood test, congratulations.

Hi to everyone else.


----------



## Tootles

Hi Viv - I feel your pain! When I see my other half come trotting down the stairs in his tight Lycra cycling shorts I try not to screw my face up at him!  I've only ever done long protocol.  From what I understand, down reg'ing is when they 'switch you off' so your body doesn't drop any eggs.... I think!  Do you down reg on a short protocol? And then the stims, which I take later, grow all of those eggs.  That's my simple version of it! I wonder why some ladies get a short protocol and others a long? 

Hope you have a good flight today Syd. How long is it?  The tiredness is all consuming isn't it?! Hope that you are able to relax into it as best you can. 

The latest work issue is the blokes going to the races today, after just coming back from skiing, having finished the shooting season (which disgusts me) and before the VIP trip to the rugby this weekend... all paid for by work. No women invited. I'm usually able to rise above it, but I have a female graduate in my team who is asking why she hasn't been invited. The truthful answer would be "because you have ovaries" but she's been told that it isn't the right 'environment' for a female.  It's practically Neolithic!  I am going to take more time off. After 20 years there I flipping deserve it! Should have left years ago and have only got myself to blame for that.  Sorry, I'm ranting again!! xxxx


----------



## Bics76

Hello ladies, 

Sorry for the radio silence. My virus decided it hadn't quite finished with me and had me on my knees for a few more days! I am hoping I have kicked its **** now. 

Firstly, I hope Mother's Day wasn't too difficult for all. It's such a hard day as it is but there are some insensitive buggers out there (received two messages, both of which made me cry and my OH swear).  Lulu, I totally agree with what you said about this journey showing you who your friends are and I'm so sorry that you have had such insensitivity about your miscarriages. People are so bloody awful sometimes. Like you say, it's the aggressive nature of people forcing you to be normal and to pretend that you are not suffering that always gets to me. We have had some unbelievable things said and done to us but are you right Kris, what we have all been through makes you hold the people who keep you moving closer to you. Losing my son has given me the strength to pull away from people who are unsupportive (not easy for a chronic people pleasing non-confrontational type!). I'm sorry that things are strained with your mum Lulu. We all understand completely the need to keep going and hoping that our dreams finally come true so its hard when someone doesn't get that. 

Kris, how are you feeling? You have had such a time of it and I am so sorry. I hope the days are being as gentle on you as possible. 

Coconuts, hi hope you're good. I think we may at about the same stage. I finally have my period (although embarrassingly am unsure whether yesterday or today is day 1 of my cycle, so I'm going in today for what I hope will be my baseline scan to start my stims). I am on a short protocol although with PGS and no one seems to be able to tell me how much extra time that will add on to things. ARGC sounds like the premier league of IVF treatment! Are you stlll starting Friday (and is that stims?). 

Viv, thank you for your lovely message. I think the strength of all of the women here is inspiring and has already helped me tremendously. Flu before stims sounds awful. A horrible virus is bad enough. You are nails as this is all exhausting enough without the flu! 

Tiger, thank you for your lovely message.


----------



## Bics76

Argh! sorry sent too soon. Tiger, I loved what you said about feeling you will have a child. Hold on to that feeling and keeping listening to Flawless  So sorry about everything you have been and are going through compounded by horrible night screams. Also really sorry about the insensitivity of Care. Unbelievable comments!

Syd, glad that you had a lovely time in Athens and yay to having two to freeze!! So pleased to hear that. 

Hi Tootles! I'm a lot better now thanks (I keep saying that so I'm hoping this time the virus really is gone). Yes my DH is truly amazing. Sometimes I feel like we have had such bad luck and then I think about how lucky I am to have him and I remember that in many ways I am blessed. Sorry to be soppy. In terms of stage, I have just finished taking Norethisterone which was to bring on my period which came yesterday but as said upthread I am not sure if yesterday of today is day 1. You'd think I'd know by now wouldn't you. Am expecting some eye rolls at my scan! I hope to be starting stims today or tomorrow on the short protocol. Very very nervous. Also very bored of this low carb diet I have been doing (did it twice before but this time feels like a real struggle). 

God Tootles so sorry about your work! You are a star to have done 20 years! So yes yes to taking some time. I can't actually believe that they have said that women were not invited along as it wasnt the right environment!! Not even covert sexism, but the right there in front of your face type! So sorry. 

Sorry if this messahe is all over the shop and very sorry if I have missed anyone or if I haven't said, which I want to do to everyone that I really am sorry that you are all on this journey but that I am very glad to have you for the ride! 

x


----------



## Bics76

Ha, I am new to FF so didn't realised that if I typed words they would be turned into pictures! Am just laughing at the wiggling bottom above!


----------



## LuluLimon

Hello everyone!
Bics I hope your scan goes well! Its not just you that struggles to work out day 1 don't worry! And truly hope you're feeling 100%!

Tootles I reckon you and the other ladies at work should rebel: instigate shopping trips/in house beauty salons to the desk/ trips to see Magic Mike (I mean the Channing Tatum film where he's  a "dancer") and see how the blokes like it! I worked somewhere like that when I moved to London and couldn't stand it so kudos to you for keeping professional for a long time!!  And yes more time off!

Viv my DH is also a cyclist, albeit not in lycra 😙, and the day before his sample this time I had to ban him from a mountain bike day..I mean really?!! He popped the pills for me, under duress, but promptly dug up every bit of research saying that it wasn't 100% proven cycling affects sperm and improves immunity! I was like"I am doing all these injections, it's not that hard for 3 months is it!!"
How did you immune retests go- when do you get results? I had another intralipids yesterday- let's see if it does wonders!
Coconuts I am not sure what a flare protocol involves but hope you get to start on Friday! Very exciting time!

I'm also in London ladies so if you guys manage a date I would be up for a lunch or afternoon tea!
Tiger- defo get some melatonin- Biovea can send it to you. It helped me- the 2-3 am wakes are killers. Amen to the dancing- Groove is in the Heart is my fave. I think it's great you have that feeling- it's what has kept me going for the last 20 months. I also can't believe CAREs comments..wtf! Sounds like they need a sensitivity course!

Kris I hope our are feeling ok. Horrible MDay is out of the way now. I always look at spring as new beginnings and growth so sending you hugs x
Syd I spoke to our embryologist this time about day 6 blasts. She said sometimes they just need a little longer as it's a hard thing to do going from  day 3 to blast. In the scheme of things it's only a few hours difference.The way I look at it is that we are all unique and so are our embryos- so maybe the day 5 is a morning person and the day 6 a night owl. I have a feeling last cycle I read something about a potential gender link but I can't find it now!

I hope it is a nice sunny spring day wherever you are! I'm procrastinating when I should be working but am going for some fresh air instead!


----------



## Syd72

Hi ladies, flew back to London from Athens this morning, here for 24 hrs then off to Budapest for work for 8 days - it's likely to be long hectic days which his good in that it will distract me from the tww but bad in that this progesterone is making me soooo tired.

I've just skimmed all the posts so apologies for anyone/anything I miss - it looks like there may have been talk of a meet up although I can't find it - I would love that if it does happen!  I'm going to be in the UK for the next few weeks and will be in and out of London.

Lulu, thanks for the reassurance about day 6 blasts.

Bics, thank you.

Tootles, that's bloody outrageous!  The only one of those that would appeal to me is the rugby, which I love, but how dare they!  Do you mind me asking what industry you work in?  

Hi to everyone else.


----------



## LuluLimon

Ok Syd if you are around for the next couple of weeks let's try and make this work. When are your UK dates? 

I feel we all could do with a nice lunch and a laugh/hug 😚 😉
I can try and set up one of those doodle polls for days..or if anyone knows how to do this easily?


----------



## Viv123

Hello all!! 

Our Dh's eh?! Syd, Did your DH freeze his sample then if you are on your own in Athens for treatment? I know its bad, but my DH get sooo sooo stressed over the 2 ww and that has really stressed me out the last cycle as he completely withdraws and gets really quiet when all I want is hugs! The first time he was away with work and it was much easier as he would be constantly checking in via the phone and being sooo soo supportive.  Syd I hope your work trips go ok too and its not stressful and you get some downtime too! 

Tootles! haha I knooooww, i try so hard not to give a look of "What the hell are you doing?!?" with the tight spandex things!
So Short protocol you go straight to stimms and don't down reg.. they never gave me the option of long... short follows your natural cycle length so it feels like a normal cycle, apart from the masses of stimm drugs.
I cannot believe your office environment. Especially after all this gender equality going down in the news recently... not at your firm! Definitely get that time off!

Lulu! Our men sound the same too! Mine did exactly that, started googling about running and fertility and giving me all sorts of stats! He is feeling super sick on the antibiotics and I know its because he's not eating a proper breakfast so his stomach is messed up! He hasn't even started his new nutrition plan yet...Grrrrr! Its only 3 months!!!
Immune retest was this morning for TNF Alpha..Pooled LIT tomorrow! Dr Gorgys office was quite busy today and I was wondering if all the hubbies there would be part of the pool. Still super nervous but will see and keep you all posted. Its interesting what your embryologist said about day 6 blasts! Has anyone here done a ERA test? I asked DR Gorgy and he said he wasn't convinced about this test yet. 
Love what you say about Spring being a time of new beginnings and growth!

Hello to anyone I've missed, Kris, Bics.

I'm having work dilemmas myself at the moment.. our start up company might not be going for much longer... but obviously need the ££ for all these treatments. Starting in a new possibly stressful role is not ideal.... Im seeing what is out there, but crossing everything they come back with positive news from our investors so I can at least keep on with this role for a few more months! Lots of positive vibes 

YESSS I'm down for a London meet up would be absolutely lovely! Sorry this message is sooo rambley!   xox


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Lots going on I see!  I bunkered down for the last few days binge watching netflix, sobbing and feeling sorry for myself. Mothers Day was hard.  I've made my OH work from home, he has gone in to the office today. It's time to resurface and get my **** together. I logged on to work today for the first time since last week and had 1,100 emails.  That brought me back to reality pretty quickly. I wish I could delete them all. I'm still bleeding but it is slowing down, however, if I do anything particularly physical it gets heavy again.  I just wish it would stop and I can have a normal cycle. I'm so keen to have another round. I too feel the same as you Tiger, while I still feel I will have a child, Ill keep going. 

I have read what you have all been up to but have promptly forgotten what's going on with who.  Viv, Butterfly, Bics, Tiger, Tootles, Syd, Lulu, Coconuts hope you are all doing well in your cycles.  Lulu, everything still going well?  I have a good feeling about this one for you.  Yes Lulu, that is what I was thinking yesterday when I went out for a walk.  I could feel spring in the air and it reminds me of new beginnings. 

My OH and I are being rather strict on our diets, not that we ate a lot of crap but have cut out all sugar etc.  He is a runner, I haven't read any ill effects from running.  I hope there isn't?  He was just given some antibiotics as he has a rash under his arm, however, I won't let him take it.  At least not until we start our next round and he makes his deposit. 

Syd, I wouldn't worry too much.  My clinic doesn't think much between 5 and 6 days.  As Lulu said, they are different, sometimes some can take a little longer. You're a busy lady, flying all over the place.  Yes, a good distraction for the TWW. Fingers and toes are crossed. 

I too can't find the original talk of a meet up.  I'm London based so can meet up at any time, except 5th - 9th April, I have my conference on then.  

Tootles I hear you about sexism in the workplace.  I endured working in a boys club for 8 years and it did my head in, so I quit.  

Going out with a friend tonight, so hopefully that will help.  I wish I could neck a bottle of wine and forget about things for a while.  Currently watching Nailed It on Netflix.  Its a bunch of amateur bakers trying to replicate professionals cakes.  It's the first time I have laughed in two weeks. 

Love to all.  xxx


----------



## Syd72

Just a very quick one to say I’m in the UK til approx 26 April, not sure what people are thinking but my weekends are pretty full already. I quite like that doodle thing, unless someone just wants to throw a date out there?

Kris, lots of love x 

Viv, yep, froze his sample last summer.

X to all


----------



## LuluLimon

I think I'd need email addresses to do the doodle thing...

Or what about sometime during week of 9th April- Kris after your conference and maybe a weekday evening or a Sunday real-time? It gets Easter out of the way and we could maybe find a good offer on somewhere central that would fit to work schedules??


----------



## Bics76

Hi all,

Hope everyone's well. I'd love a catch up too if that's ok, if you don't mind a newbie tagging along 😊 (Doodle thingy is beyond me!). I think those dates could work well for me (although because of the PGS I don't quite know when my transfer will be but I'll think about/deal with that when I need to). 

Thanks Lulu, the scan went well and I start stims tomorrow! Yikes! Feeling lots better now thanks. 

Viv, sending positive vibes for your work situation and hope you can hang tight there a little longer and the investors bring some good news. 

Kris, sending you hugs. I'm glad Nailed It has made you smile. I know the timing couldn't have been worse with Mother's Day. Thinking of you and I hope you physically recover quickly now. 

Xx


----------



## Viv123

Those dates work for me too and evenings or Sun would work.. whatever the preference is..
Bics, thank you for your positive vibes  i do hope so! Can I ask re, your PGS.. does your clinic do speedy PGS or NGS do you know? I am going to do it this time also and am trying to find out as much as I can about it! Exciting you start tomorrow!

Kris, I don't think there are any ill effects from running.. its just the tight lycra body suit thing my DH is wearing whilst running  Im sorry you've had a tough few days and sending you massive hugs! I am going to check out Nailed it on Netflix now.

Night all!XX


----------



## Tootles

Bics - I'm loving the wiggle bottom! On the day one of your period thing; you're not alone! My clinic advised to take the latter day as day one if that helps. Did you start stims yesterday? It is nerve wracking the first time but you'll soon get into the swing of it. It's lovely that your DH is so supportive. 

Lulu - how were the intralipids? I asked my clinic about them but they don't offer them. I was told that it's made up of fats that help growth - is that right? Of course my other half suggested we could go for a McDonald's instead to get the fats - errrr no!! So yours is a cyclist too? Mine has become obsessed! He's out there polishing, tweaking, cleaning them all the time! The garage is full of flipping bikes, but I guess there are worse hobbies he could have. 

Syd - you are one well travelled lady! Do you enjoy it? It must be hard with the tiredness. Hope you get a nice balance of distraction and rest. I'm in commercial property.  The work is interesting, it's just my sector is so male dominated with huge egos to boot. 

Viv - I hope the start up keeps going and investors dip into their pockets. Hope it's not too much of an anxious time. Good old IVF timing!! I see Dr Gorgy mentioned a lot on the forum. Can I ask, is he at a particular clinic or do you go to see him in addition to your clinic?

Kris - it's good to bunker down and I hope you've recovered even if it's just a little bit. You'll have your good days and bad days but hopefully the good will be more and more frequent. I know what you mean about wanting to hurry things along to start your next cycle. One comfort I got from my experience is learning that the procedure acts as a really effective scratch which is supposed to aid stickyness for next time. I hope you had a good night with your friend and glad to here you had a chuckle at the telly box. I've not seen Nailed It so will add that to my list!

AFM - insomnia is here again! If I sleep beyond 4pm it's like having a lie in. Dreading work today and next week as lots happening and it's all getting very political. Could sooo do without the stress right now. I was injecting last night while on a conference call to the snottiest solicitor - I could have decked him! Oh noooo, am I becoming a man hater?!  Roll on Spring - I bought some daffs and they cheered me up no end. Right, back to counting sheep....


----------



## pauli

Lovely ladies,
Sorry for my silence in the last few weeks. We had some sad news, my father has unexpectedly passed away following a head injury. He lived abroad, so I needed to take quite a bit of time off to travel and make funeral arrangements (so much paperwork!) Luckily my sister arrived from the US with her little one, it was easier to deal with everything when you are not on your own. And the little one provided very welcome distraction ;-) Also my DH came out for a few days which was helpful. 

As we returned, I started a short flare IVF protocol. It is our 5th attempt with OE and it will be the last one. We need a miracle for this one to be a success ;-) 

Welcome to new ladies - Viv, Bics, Coconut! Glad to see so many brave ladies joining. 

Kris, I am so sorry. I think some TV / Netflix will do you loads of good. I hope you look after yourself and only go back to work when you are ready. Hope the physical body will heal quickly and you will be ready for another cycle sooon, many hugs xx

Lulu, that's amazing news!!! Keeping everything crossed for you. Are you doing more bloods or waiting now for the 1st scan? How about the knitting hobby? ;-) 

Tootles, great to hear from you and glad that you are trying again. I hear you about the cycling hobby - my DH has a collection in a garage too - cleaning, fixing, adjusting, changing parts never stops! One bike is parked in a spare bedroom (too precious to go to a cold / slightly damp garage) which drives me mad. I think only having a baby will make him move that bike to the garage!        

Syd, hope 2ww goes quickly and you will get that BFP!!! Day 6 blasts in a freezer sounds fab! Fingers crossed xx

TigerSmiles, hope you are doing well. 

Good luck to all starting the cycles at this time. 

I would love to meet up in London if we can find a date. Lulu, you can create a Doodle calendar and post a link here, so you do not need our emails.    

AFM: doing IVF in Prague CZ, arrived here this week hoping to have egg collection on Saturday but the follicles have slowed down now and it looks as EC will be on Monday or Tuesday! Struggling to come up with excuses at work asking for time off at such a short notice. I think I only have 1 day annual leave left now. 

Also we had another sad news, my DH's uncle passed away this week, waiting to hear about funeral date. Although in a beautiful Prague, not in a mood for sightseeing, just curling up on a sofa with a book and trying to stay relaxed and calm ;-)      
Xx


----------



## miamiamo

@pauli I am sorry about yr situation right now, and I wish you all the luck in the world on yr journey


----------



## Kris76

Hi Ladies

Happy Friday!!

Would love a meet up.  The week of April 9th is good.  I am due to fly out to Melbourne on the 11th April.  However, I suspect I will end up delaying my trip as my period is meant to be due on the 3rd April and I am going to do another egg collection and try and bank some more embryos.  Obviously, I will need to stay put until that is done with.  At least I know I can do a long haul flight after transfer without ill effects. As I flew straight out after my last transfer and it took. So it is likely that I will still be around that week.  If my period doesn't arrive at all then.  I will just fly out and go again once I am back. 

Do any of you take anything to improve egg quality.  I know there has been talk of it previously but I can't remember who?  If so, what do you take?  I have my follow up on Tuesday and I want to ask about it. 

How are you feeling Lulu?  Everything seems to be ticking along so far which is great news.  

Tootles, good to hear that the ERPC can act like a scratch.  I hope so.  I certainly don't want to have to go through one, I'm still traumatised by your experience! Knock me out and do what you have to do thanks.  Hope you are managing to get some sleep.  

Pauli, I am so very sorry to hear about your father.  My condolences.  I can't imagine what you must be going through, having to process the grief and go through a cycle at the same time.  I really hope you are 5th time lucky. Sending all positive thoughts your way. xxx

Ha Viv, I'm picturing your husband running in a one piece lycra body suit. My OH was meant to be doing a 10k run on Sunday, however, it's been cancelled due to snow.  What is going on, we are halfway through March.  Had enough of the weather. 

Bics, how is your protocol coming along?

Syd, how are you feeling?

Hello to everyone else.  Sick of doing emails, going to go for a walk now. 

Hope everyone has a great weekend. 
xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Pauli- I am so sorry about your father, it must be tough, but you are very strong! Its very exciting you are cycling and due to collection Monday- fingers crossed for a chilled weekend in lovely Prague.
I had a hiatus on my knitting, so I'm waiting 2 weeks and if positive will start some more  
Kris- quickly, you could try Apimist + which you can buy from Apitherapy-. Its pollen/propolis - honey and I think tastes nice. Also I had dexamethasone steroid to boost egg quality. Melatonin is also recommended during Stims.
Viv- hope the other immune test went ok. I haven't done ERA- was thinking of it but mostly couldn't face the pain🤔
Bics hope stimming is going well

Syd/Tootles/Coconut/Tigersmiles-/ big hello

It's lovely everyone is up for a meet. I've been distracted til now so will aim at setting up a doodle poll and will post it here for that week
I'm oscillating between positive and "I can't feel anything". Its driving me nuts! Calm/Relaxed/Zen I know... grrr!
Have a good weekend


----------



## Viv123

Hello all

Tootles, I know what you mean about political work situs. Hope it turned out ok and you got some much needed sleep. Thank you for the good vibes on our investment and last months unpaid pay. We find out whats what on Monday.  Dr Gorgy is at FGA( Fertility and Gynaecology Academy), he used to be at ARGC but set up his own practise doing further immune investigations and also ladies can cycle with him too.

Hello Pauli. Im sorry about your dad, sooo hard i can't even comprehend how hard 

Kris,  .. so he has a top and shorts on top of the body suit thing so its not as bad as that sounds.. that would have been a sight to behold haha! So egg quality, Mel Brown says, Apimist also, Ubiqionol is a good one, high quality Omega 3 ( she recommend Lionheart, super ££ but doesn't taste hideous) melatonin and i was told DheA at my last consultation, but have to have regular blood tests to make sure my DHEA and testosterone levels are in range...

Lulu i didn't realise Dexamethasone boosts egg quality? thats really interested.. those steroids played havoc with me the last cycle. I had LIT yesterday., that was a shocker but the lady who administered it was amazing.. my inner arms are all swollen. STAY ZEEEN  you are doing amazingly!

Hubbie basically said to me this evening that he didn't think any of this was going to work made me super sad. He's taking it all very hard.. i just want to prove him completely wrong! 

Cant wait to meet you ladiesxxx


----------



## Bics76

Hi everyone!

Firstly, Pauli, I'm so very sorry about your dad and your DH's uncle. What a time you have had. Sending love and light. Also hoping you get your miracle on this round ❤ I hope egg collection goes well. Is it still looking like Monday or Tuesday? 

Sorry for the delay generally, it's been quite a week! Tootles, thanks for your message and yes I stated stims on Thursday! It was a terrible start as the injection pen wasn't working. We had to do the injection between 7am and 9am and after faffing around trying for around 45 mins we had to hotfoot it to the hospital (got there at 8.30!) where they got it sorted. Not the calm start I'd hoped for! So far I'm feeling ok which is a relief as previously I've been really sick on day 1.

Viv, sorry for the delay! Yes I'm doing PGS. Not sure how 'speedy' it is and everyone is being a bit vague about how long it adds to the process. I have kind of just gone with my consultant who said that I should try it as apparently my reserves are still high but quality is obviously not good as I keep having chemicals. I know it takes a fortnight to get the results back and that it is genesis genetics they are using. Sorry, normally I am all over facts and stats, but I'm a little hesitant with PGS to read too much. My little boy has autism and he is my absolute sunshine, so I guess the whole 'selection' side of things with PGS is a bit close to home so I'm just doing and not thinking about it too hard. 

Sorry about feeling sad Viv. It sounds like maybe your hubbie is doing some self preservation although I know that's hard when you're trying to stay positive. Yes to proving him wrong! Also can't wait to meet you all. Good luck for investment result on Monday. Will keep everything crossed. 

Kris, hope you are physically recovering well and glad to hear of your plans for another egg collection. In terms of suppliments, I also take ubiquinol (600mg-going to bankrupt myself!), vitamin d, omega 3 and B1 (I think it's B1, I'll check in the morning- husband is in charge of doling out vits and suppliments). They were all recommended by my consultant although I'm taking a higher level of ubiquinol than he suggested. Also doing prettty low carb diet as I've read the research about low carb and it's affect on ivf outcomes. 

Lulu glad you're feeling well. Looking forward to hearing that you've got the knitting needles out 😊 I crotchet (badly!). 

Clearly, I have insomnia, so sorry if this post is an incomprehensible ramble! Also typing through a cracked iPhone screen 😫 so sorry if I've missed anyone or anything. Hugs to all xx


----------



## LuluLimon

https://doodle.com/poll/i6gyvyhv535qscrz

I've set up the pill for days- times are approx- we can sort later&#128521;

Disclaimer: Should you arrange any meetings with any member through your use of Fertility Friends then you do so at your own risk. Members should take reasonable precautions to ensure their safety.


----------



## LuluLimon

Oops poll!


----------



## Viv123

Hello all! My date is in 

Thank you so much Bics for your lovely message. Meant a lot. I think you are right re. hubbie and the self preservation thing.. The thought of going through yet another round and it being unsuccessful. Thank you for your thoughts on PGS and I completely understand why you don't want to think about it too much and just do. Thank you for the positive vibes for monday. Hope you got some sleep in the end. xo

HUgs to all.xox


----------



## Syd72

Sorry ladies, I'm a bit behind due to work.

Pauli, I'm so very sorry, how incredibly sad for both of you.  I really hope all goes well with Prague, I would maybe just take the time off sick?  It's not something I normally say but I think it's fully justified here.

Tootles, I feel for you, I'm a terrible insomniac.  Only benefit of these progesterone injections is that I'm sleeping so well.  I do enjoy travel although I'm scared of flying - sounds crazy given how much I'm in the air.  I normally take a tranquilizer for long haul travel but obviously can't do that when cycling.

I haven't caught up on everyones comments about a catch up but I've seen week of 9 April mentioned.  I'm planning to be in the London office 10 and 11 April so could definitely do either of those days, could probably do 9th too.  Are we talking lunch or dinner?

Sorry, got to run again.  Hi to everyone else x


----------



## Syd72

Sorry, I'm in idiot, just seen the doodle, thanks for doing that Lulu.  Looks like I may miss you all as I'm away on a girls weekend for 2 x 50th birthdays that weekend.

x


----------



## LuluLimon

Syd we'll see what dates come out as I know weekends not best for people. I'm thought dinner best for those working/cycling but we can play it by ear on times


----------



## Bics76

Hello all,

Hope you're having good weekends!

Lulu, I hope you're feeling well and thanks for the doodle, I've voted! 

Syd, how're you doing/feeling? Sounds like a busy old time but that can be a good thing can't it?

Viv, thanks for your lovely message ❤ Hope you're feeling better.  This is such a hard road for us all and dealing with bitter disappointment is horrid so having some protective barriers up is something you can't help doing sometimes (I know I can't anyway). Getting the balance between managing expectations and being positive is really hard. I'm there right now myself, so I am googling ivf apps and cds for mindfulness/meditation! Does anyone have an app or cd they would recommend? It's for positive thinking really, so not necessarily ivf related but I guess one that covered that would be a bonus.  

Hey to everyone else and hope you're all good xx


----------



## Syd72

Well, I've been holding off saying this because it's not definite yet but I'm testing positive.  However, I was naughty and did an hcg booster shot 1 dpt, so Friday of last week.  I've done cheapies 4 nights in a row and they do seem to be getting darker but it's hard to tell because they're fairly rubbish.  I got a good positive on a clearblue last night which is 8 days after trigger so just need to do it again in a couple of days and see if it's still there.


----------



## LuluLimon

Bics- try Circle &Bloom. They have some free to download meditations and also an IVF specific one for the whole cycle. I really like them. They help sleep too.

Syd😊😊 I was wondering when you were due to test. That sounds really good! I'll leave off til you get to OTD to congratulate you but I'm feeling positive for you!!!🤗


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hey all, what a great idea to meet up.   Nice work LuLu Hope you all have a fab time, that is a crazy week for me with a girls weekend and a birthday weekend too.  But just checking in off the back of a busy week at the other end of the country. But hope you are all OK and staying positive  ? Thinking of you all and Pauli really sorry to hear you are going through it in a multitude of ways. AFM - AF came yesterday, so just uber uber tired and for me always feels like AF is more painful post a cycle that hasn't worked. I'm just talking it easy tbh and contemplating next steps really. DH bless him, told me that another one of our lovely friends is pregnant. So happy for them, I really honestly am. But you know, you can't help but get that thought in my head. "When is it going to be our turn?". It's going to happen, it has too right!?


----------



## LuluLimon

It will Tiger. 
Someone told me to turn those thoughts into "that WILL be me soon!" It deflects the negative thought on yourself and lack into a positive affirmation. AF is always the worse time for such news I agree.

I am using these mind tricks constantly ATM! My natural state is pessimism so it's a big battle to win over my mind😲
We could always expand the dates into the week after? Syd is around til 26?I think of April and the more the merrier! Main aim was avoiding Easter


----------



## Tiger Smiles

@LuluLimon - yesss I love that "that WILL be me soon!" Thanks for sharing that one.


----------



## Viv123

Hello all!

Thank you so much Bics for your words!   . Feeling a little better today. Binge watched this insane documentary on Netflix called Wild Wild Country. Fascinating and crazy! You are right, it is managing the expectations and reality at the same time.
Meditations, as Lulu says, Circle and bloom is really good.. there is a free app called Insight Timer which has thousands of meditations, they have some great sleep ones too.

Syd, SUper exciting!! Willing those lines to get darker!  

Tiger, sending you huge huge hugs! I know the feeling well. xox

Hello to everyone else. xo


----------



## LuluLimon

Pauli- good luck for EC today!
Hi everyone hope you doing ok despite the snow!


----------



## Syd72

Thanks Lulu and Viv.  Got pregnant 1-2 this morning on a digi but everything I'm reading says that could still be the ovitrelle shot as I only did it 9 1/2 days ago.


----------



## Bics76

Syd! Great news and while I don't know anything about hcg shots, may the lines continue to get darker and darker 😊

Lulu thanks very much for the Circle &Bloom suggestion have been on there saved it and will have a listen tonight 

Viv, glad you're feeling better 😊 I need to check out that programme it sounds brilliant!  Thanks also for the app recommendations. I will try them all! 

Hi Tiger, sending hugs. 

Good luck for today Pauli. Hope all goes well. 

AFM, I am feeling panicked and need some advice please ladies. 

I have just had my 5 day scan and apparently I have hardly responded to the drugs despite being on a high dosage. I have 13 follicles but only one at 7cm and one at not quite 6cm. They need to be at 18cm. This has never happened in previous rounds of IVF and the only difference (apart from being older) is the birth control I had before which I haven't had on previous cycles, and it seems like it may have over-suppressed things. All my questions were met with a "let's just wait and see" which hasn't helped. I'm someone who needs to know options and what may or may not happen. I'm worried that my cycle is going to be abandoned but trying to stay calm and take control of things I can do that make a difference (however little). I have read that acupuncture can help in this situation. Does anyone have experience of this, or know of an acupuncturist they can recommend in London? Also do you ladies know of anything that would help? I have googled (obviously!) and it seems like people are suggesting protein (I'm already on a low carb high protein diet) hot water bottles and milk. I'm going to try the milk (in fact anything that may help) and hot water bottles and keep on with the low carb. Can you tell that I'm slightly panicking 😊


----------



## Syd72

Acupuncture can definitely help, in my experience. Unfortunately the lady I used to go to is in Devon but hopefully you’ll get some recommendations.


----------



## LuluLimon

Bics don't panic unduly. There's lots that can be done for size and they will grow several mm a day. 
Increase your protein in general- steaks better than chicken, get some whey protein and use 25-30g of that with whole milk at least 500mls daily. Also hot water bottles. I would also generally eat warm food and eggs/avocados.
I have been to London Acupuncture clinic on Wimpole St- they work Mon-Sun and they are all trained in fertility Acupuncture there. Zita West also has a bunch of acupuncturists in daily. I think they are beat bets as our should be able to get in quickly and I think they are fine £60 a session.
Again don't worry there were a few ladies on my Feb/Mar cycle that started off slow but managed EC fine x


----------



## LuluLimon

Also try visualising your body relaxing and the follicles responding to the size they need to get to 17-18mm. In your mind tell them they have all they need to grow and to use the drugs you are taking to achieve this. See it happening in your mind.


----------



## Bics76

Oh thank you so much Syd and Lulu. Km so grateful. I'm in Tesco now buying steak! 😀 Will call Zita West now for a session. Thanks again. I'm going to try the visualisation and concentrate on staying calm 😊


----------



## Viv123

Just a quickie, Bics, as the other girls have said, Zita west and London Acupuncture clinic can get you in super quick.. also re. protein... my nutritionist said to add whey organic protein to my milk as well as upping protein in general! https://www.pulsin.co.uk/organic-whey-protein-concentrate.html . I really think that is the main reason why I managed to produce decent eggs whilst being super sick with flu over stimms. Mine started slow then sped up! xox


----------



## Bics76

Oh bless you Viv- I was just about to ask about whey protein brands! I've ordered some. Thanks so much!


----------



## Bics76

ps, thanks all for the encouragement. I really appreciate it ❤


----------



## Kris76

Hi Ladies

Happy Monday...boo, hate Mondays. 

I understand the panic Bics.  As Lulu said, they can grow a lot each day.  Still possible for them to catch up.  It is incredible how much it can vary cycle to cycle though.  I had a big difference between my first and second cycles.  The difference was, I was also on Gonal F on my 2nd cycle and I did acupuncture leading up to my second cycle and all through it, twice a week...I still do. I'm in West Kensington, I just went local and she has been great.  Adjusts my treatment depending on what I am up to in my cycle.  I was looking at acupuncturists in town but found a lot of them to be well over £100 per half an hour which I thought was outrageous.  I pay £23 per session (I buy it in bulk).  Otherwise, £60 is about standard.  I also, use meditation apps every night and go to sound baths once a month to stay as calm as possible. I have seen the circle & bloom ones before, however, they charge $59 to download 1 meditation app. Which I am sure I will buy anyway.  I just need to read one review that says, I tried to get pregnant for years and after listening to the fertility meditation for a couple of months, bam, I was pregnant.  I'd hand over the keys to my flat if I knew it would make a difference. 

I might try the protein powder myself.  However, the amount of protein powder I have drank in my life, I should have cracking eggs!  Bics, I also do a low carb diet, really not sure how helpful that is considering the millions of women that get pregnant that aren't on low carb diets.  Oh well, Ill try anything at this stage.  Clearly, feeling very cynical today. 

That's very positive so far Syd.  I hope it is not just the shot.  We need another win for the group. 

How are you feeling Lulu?

Viv, I understand your husbands thoughts.  My OH has gone from being very positive to always saying, 'I have no doubt it's going to happen'.  Now he just says he is scared and worried.  Which is starting to freak me out as I am much more inclined to be negative whereas he never has been. 

Tiger, how are you feeling today?  Hopefully not as tired?  As we all know, it's a love hate with AF.  Hoping it doesn't come so we can have a BFP and then hoping it comes so we can start another cycle.  I am currently willing with every fibre of my being for my AF to hurry up and arrive.  

Thanks everyone for your vitamin recommendations for egg quality.  I looked up Ubiquinol, which sounds like it can be helpful.  I have my follow up tomorrow, so I will mention all the suggested ones to him. 

A friend of mine had a baby a couple of days ago.  He is super cute but it was also like a stab in the heart.  Her Dr told her about 11 months ago that she shouldn't leave having children any later.  Within a couple of months she was pregnant.  I couldn't help but think f*&k, how can it be so easy for some.  It's mental. 

Sorry, it's a bit of an angry message today. 

Hugs to everyone. xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Hey Kris it's hard dealing with newborns....Be kind to yourself. I think it was your consult today? Good luck x

Syd did you test again or waiting til tmrw?! Keeping all crossed for you!
Bics hope you get the protein- I actually used the one I used to use at the gym which seemed to work ok last time!

Our doodle poll has several times of 3 votes- so there aren't any dates when we can all do (apart from me cos I am hibernating, lol), but I don't mind having 2 meet ups, or we try for the week after? 

One more bl&&Dy week to get through. I am going slowly round the bend but my knitting has come on...I am half way through a capelet!


----------



## Syd72

Thanks lulu, following week works for me too although still not the weekend.

Got another strong positive on clearblue plus this morning, 10 1/2 days past booster. Looks darker than the one from two days ago but honestly hard to tell as they fade as they dry. Final digi ready for tomorrow.


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

I know Lulu, however, I love newborns.  I love holding them, they are so sweet.

Appointment went well. Consultant was very positive as I did have a good last round, beside the terrible outcome.  All eggs fertilised and made it to day 5, I had spares and it did work...for a little while at least. He said that it only happens to 7% of women they treat (that all fertilise and have spares)...in my age category.  Shame they were abnormal.  He thought I should transfer the frozen ones I have but I'm going for another round. I figure if I am lucky enough for 2 more frozen ones to work, then I will only be left with one spare to rely on in a years time. Don't like my odds and my already old eggs will be another year older for a collection then.  We talked about PGS, well I raised it, he doesn't think i should do it.  I'm in two minds.  So just waiting for AF to arrive and I can get injecting again.  To think when I started this, I thought the injections were going to be the worst of it.  I'm an idiot. 

Wow, Syd, that is clearly very promising.  I'm truly delighted for you.  Makes me happy to see (dare I say it), a successful outcome after such anguish. You too Lulu!  Hopefully, one by one, we all can. 

Hope everyone else is doing well. 

xx


----------



## Syd72

Thanks Kris, tomorrow morning can't come fast enough.  That sounds like a good plan re another fresh round.  If this round doesn't work out for us I think I would go the PGS route next time.  Everything crossed for you this round x 

Bics, good luck with the protein!

xx to everyone else.


----------



## Glitterbabe2017

Hi ladies

Sorry for not responding I have been away from all things baby since my BFN for a month.  I needed the break to get my emotional in check. 

The thread has been busy. Had a quick skim read - sorry Kris & Butterfly for your sad news and any ladies I missed. 

Congratulations to ladies who had a BFP. 

I will still be on here occasionally and responding but won't have any updates as my partner and I have not got the funding for a private cycle. I'm slowly accepting the idea of adoption but not quite there emotionally yet


----------



## Syd72

Glitter, I'm so sorry, could going abroad be an option or still not?  I don't know if it helps but two lots of close friends have adopted and it's been a great experience for everyone.    Not an easy decision though.

Ladies, happy to report 2-3 on a digi this morning.  Long way to go but cautiously excited.


----------



## Bics76

Hi all,

Sorry for the delay and thanks for thinking of me and my protein 😊

Syd, wow, that's amazing! Another lovely update. Congratulations! It really made me smile to read that. (Thanks for the protein luck!) 

Glad your appointment went well Kris. Another round sounds like a good plan. It's a tough one with PGS, but it felt like the right thing for us given our history. 

Lulu, hope you're feeling well and glad to hear the knitting is back on. Thanks again for all of advice I really appreciate it. I'm fairly flexible dates wise so the week after is also good for me for a catch up. 

Viv, hope you're good x 

Hi glitterbabe.  I'm so sorry for everything you've been and are going through. If this cycle doesn't work out, I think adoption may be the route for us too. I went to some adoption information evenings at the beginning of the year before we decided on one last go, and was massively inspired. I'm not quite there yet emotionally either. I know that feeling of having to consider a route you never thought you would have to go down, but I found it helpful to find out a bit more. 

AFM, I got the protein shake yesterday (thank you Amazon 😀 but also thank you Viv! They actually taste nice (after I blended it...forgot to do that first time and it had the consistency of vomit!)). Now wondering if it's possible to have too much protein (!) as I'm in overdrive, but I am taking the view that I just shovel it down for these next few days and hope for the best. I'm back for a scan on Friday so let's see what has happened then

Hugs and love  to all x


----------



## LuluLimon

Syd - congrats on the official BFP!! &#128513;&#128513; 
That's awesome! I know the new horrible wait begins now, but one step closer! Are you doing bloods over here ? What does OH say!?

Glitterbabe- sorry to read your update. I hope you have time to process all the emotions ((xx))

Kris that sounds a really positive consult.

Bics glad the protein arrived. I don't think you can take too much- maybe have some prunes in as it made me a big constipated.

Hi everyone else.
I've added dates for the week after((16-22 April) to our poll just in case there is one day we can all do! Otherwise I'll just pick 2.

https://doodle.com/poll/i6gyvyhv535qscrz

Lulu x


----------



## magicpillow

Hi ladies, sorry I need to be better at keeping up.  Been so exhausted that I've been staying offline for a bit.  Am going to have a read back and see where everyone is at.  I just saw your post Bic about being interested in adoption but not emotionally there yet.  I'm very similar as I feel very drawn to it but can't cross the barrier in my head about not having my own child and actually having a baby myself, even if it's donor eggs.  Half of me doesn't want to be pregnant though.  

Girls, would the meet up be in London?  I'd be up for it if so.  I'm in west Sussex but can easily get the train up to Victoria and then tube to wherever.  I might try and add myself to the doodle if ok?  You might all think I'm a bit rubbish for not keeping up with things!

Nice to hear from your glitter babe and Kris I'm glad your appointment went well. xxx


----------



## Viv123

hello all!!

Kris, thanks for the note of support, I'm so sorry your hubbie is worried and probably in turn worrying you.. it has been hard with my DH as he has been going through some childhood trauma and ptsd so sometimes he is very withdrawn and tends to shut down to protect himself. Not ideal when we are going through IVF and i have felt very lonely through this process. He is the same, fearful and also apathetic that it will never happen especially after the last two. It leaves me feeling quite insecure to the point that I went cray today and said he "talks" more to his therapist than me!!  . The support here has just been a godsend! we can support each other! Why is your consultant not keen on PGS? Baffles me why a lot of clinics are anti it. Good plan re. the fresh round!xx

SYd, thats great news! very exciting!!xox

Glitterbabe, huge hugs to you, its so toughxxx 

Bics, glad the protein arrived! Hoping those eggs have a growth spurt!xox

Lulu, hope you are well,  hi magic pillow, Tootles and Tiger! xox


----------



## Glitterbabe2017

Syd - congrats on the BFP. How many cycles did you have? Hope you don't mind me asking. Exciting times ahead. Going abroad not option at moment. We just completed on a property, getting the keys next week. We got a flat instead of house so lower mortgage payments.  We debated whether to use the deposit for ivf but after the follow up consultation to the failed cycle, being told average eggs, Chromosome abnormality due to age and 10% success rate if tried again we decided have a roof over our heads first as currently with parents. I moved home 4 years ago after a relationship break up and never left and he divorce 2 years ago and at his dad's since. We needed stability. 

Thank you for sharing your friends adoption journey, it does provide comfort. I haven't talked myself to joining the "adoption thread" on here here. 

Hi Bics don't think we have met yet. What is with the protein? Must have missed the start of that convo when I skimmed the thread for the past month. I haven't delved into adoption as much as you have. Just been looking online for now. Another friend with baby news announcement this week. I didn't cry this time as I had a ivf cycle and it didn't work so it was easier to accept. I was down a bit but that's normal right when others can get pregnant so easily. I cheered myself up by looking at home furnishings for my first ever home that I will own as of next week and also adoption sites and said to myself "one day". It worked my mood improved. 

Thank you Lulu. 

Hi Magicpillow and Viv. 

Is it just me? When friends announce baby news do you get down? Am I a horrible friend or feeling sad for me?  I can't really say anything other than put on that "smile" which takes every bit of energy in me to muster up because if i didnt put all my energy into that smile i would be crying very ugly with snots and howling "why is it not me". I can get so down even my lovely partner can't always pull me out of it. I have to do something I enjoy as mentioned above or go dancing (salsa) and dance all my unhappiness away.


----------



## Bingo77

Hi
Got my first consultation on Tuesday and hopefully starting treatment with a view to egg transfer in April too. New to this ..how bad are the side effects 're work? Naturally will take EC and ET days off. Trying IVI in London and then probably their clinic in Spain if 1st attempt here fails.
Excited..nervous.. but at least being proactive yet secretly dreading if this turns into a long saga and needing DE. 
Hope this works and so wish I ttc years ago.. only met my Mr right last year and ttc 8 months ...time is of the essence! Depressingly!


----------



## Kris76

Hello lovely ladies

Syd, that is so wonderful!!  I was telling my OH last night how excited I am for this to work for you, as well as you Lulu.  I feel it is positive for all of us for the ladies in this group to have successful pregnancies. 

Lulu, how are you feeling these days?  I need to learn to start knitting myself. I have the stuff but not quite the time to learn.  My mum is an amazing knitter and used to knit me loads of stuff growing up. I loved it. Happy to meet up week after if I am still around.  My entire life is currently on hold waiting for my period to arrive.  

Thanks for all the drugs tips.  Spoke to my consultant about them and he recommended that I take COENZYME Q10.  I have ordered that. Hope it is not too late to start taking it. 

Hi Glitterbabe, good to hear from you.  I wish it were on better circumstances.  I'm sorry to hear that you won't be able to continue with treatment for now. It is such an expensive process, especially with a property purchase. Good to have a roof over your head and be out of the parents place.  Its rather normal to feel upset at pregnancy announcements, I admit that I find it very hard. At least you try and find an outlet with your dancing.  It's healthy.  

Bics you made me laugh re not blending your protein shake.  That would've been disgusting to try and drink.  You mentioned you might be taking too much? Try not to overdo the protein as your body will only convert what it needs and the rest it will turn to sugar and fat and too much protein can potentially stress out your kidney's. Especially if you are not resistance training to use it up.  Not trying to be all preachy, however, my brother is a qualified trainer. I learn a lot from him. 

Hi Viv, oh no, your poor husband and you.  It is very tough to deal with and we both are up and down with it as I'm sure you and your husband are. I know, I love this group.  I don't know how I managed before it.  My consultant just didn't think I should bother with PGS, he felt it was just another expense.  However, the benefit of potentially not going through another miscarriage is comforting.  Also, the thought of all embryos testing abnormal and having nothing to transfer or freeze after a cycle is also traumatising.  Its a tough one and I am still undecided.  He also thought that interfering with embryos is a risk and he said I should just leave them be.  I don't know.  I still don't have a firm opinion on it. 

Magic I hope you are feeling a bit more energetic?

Hi Bingo.  That is exciting for you to begin a cycle, it is always full of promise.  Only speaking for myself, I didn't have any side effects and felt fine throughout my cycles.  You will want to take EC off, only because it can take half a day for it to happen if there are a number of women collecting that day.  You want to put you feet up and recover.  However, its a pretty easy recovery.  There is nothing to ET, takes about 15-20 mins and you are out of there. The worst of it is trying to hold a full bladder.  I just go back to work, there is not much else you can do.  However, I know a lot of women probably like to take it easy.  I used to fear that it would fall out! Obviously, that can't happen. For me ET is just another day.  It is good that you are doing it now and you never know, you could have a successful first round.  I think we are all concerned about time being in this age group, even though I still believe myself to be a spring chicken...just wish my body and eggs did too!

Im off to my sound bath now for some relaxation. 

Hello to everyone else. 

xx


----------



## Viv123

Hello everyone!!

Glitterbabe,that is so great about your new flat! ) Getting into your own space will be good and you are right about stability. I do know what you mean. I  am happy for friends who announce they are preggars, but I just get super frustrated. Two friends of mine, both 39 got pregnant, one on a night out with her partner where they both very drunk, and the 2nd after only 3 months with her new chap. Everyone says forget about it and it happens.. I think how can anyone going through this process forget it? Anyhows, dancing is great to dance it away! I do ballet, but I'm feeling its too rigid. Im gonna start up belly dancing for a giggle 

Bingo How exciting you are starting! I didn't really have an side effects even though hubbie said my mood swings were hideous. Im sure he was being dramatic tho.  

Kris thank you so much for your lovely message. PGS is a crazy expense and all these testings are stretching us financially... I just know i want to do it as I can't bear going through those 2 weeks without knowing the embryo/s are viable instead of blindly transferring 3 every time. IT would be very upsetting if all came back abnormal though I need to do more sound bath. I feel constantly on edge at the moment..

My cytokine results have come back and after the round of humira they have flared..34- 42  I do not want to do another round so will speak to Dr G about alternatives. more £££. dammit!  We are all so strong going through this!

Hugs to everyone else and looking forward to the meet up!Xxx


----------



## LuluLimon

Hi ladies just a brief one

April 10th Tuesday has most votes so should we go with that? I thought somewhere central like Oxford Circus/Bond St maybe?
Bics I think you couldn't do that date but would you fancy meeting for afternoon tea on Sunday 15th if it works with your cycle?
X


----------



## Bics76

Hello all,

Hope you're all well. I will do a proper reply soon (hectic weekend here) but just wanted to say, bless you Lulu, that's really lovely of you about the afternoon tea suggestion. There's a chance I may be able to do the Tuesday, just waiting to find out if my DH will be away or not (he has a meeting overseas around that week but dates are still being thrashed out). So if I can, I'll be there for the Tuesday otherwise afternoon tea sounds absolutely fab! Thank you x 

Also, thanks all so much for the follicle growing advice ladies. It has worked 😊 and they're growing, although they're still taking their time and quite slow on the uptake so I'm going to up the milk for the next few days and keep everything crossed 

Love to all x


----------



## Syd72

Sorry for the radio silence ladies, had a hectic few days.  Trying to catch up with you all now.

Bics, great to hear the follies are growing.

Lulu, 10 April sounds perfect, thank you.  And thanks for the congratulations, more about bloods below.  OH very pleased, seems far more aware of everything this time round, even remember when OTD was which is a minor miracle!

Viv, sorry to hear about your test results.

Kris, you are so kind, thank you.  Sound bath sounds intriguing, tell me more!

Welcome Bingo, I didn't have any issues when cycling with own eggs and carried on working.  I took ec day off but et I went straight back to the office and flew back to Hong Kong that night - it didn't work so I'm not necessarily recommending that but as far as how I felt went, I was absolutely fine.  Just a bit sore and tired for a day after ec.

Glitter, it's not just you.  One advantage of being so much older is I don't really have friends having babies any more but I do have it quite a bit with work colleagues, it's very hard.

Magic, lovely to hear from you, I hope you can make the meet up.

Thanks for all the congratulations ladies.  First set of bloods were 446.50, that was two days after OTD so approx 18dpo, seems an averagish number for the time, having spent hours pouring over the relevant threads in here   Too low for multiples but that's fine, twins would have been lovely but one healthy baby would be amazing!  Getting my next set of bloods tomorrow, feeling very nervous as last time it was around this time that bloods stopped going up at the correct rate and everything started to go wrong, first time I made it to 8 weeks I didn't get any bloods done.

Hi to everyone I've missed x


----------



## LuluLimon

Hi All- just a quick update - we saw a heartbeat today at 7w, though bean is measuring a bit smaller at 6w3- but I think I implanted late based on HCG levels. So another one in 2 weeks but I am estatic to have got to this stage and hope I can commit to being fully positive now!!

Bics I hope your follies have grown.
Syd good luck for our next bloods.
Sorry if I have forgot anyone else who is in cycle- 
but hi everyone- lots of love and baby dust Lulu xx


----------



## Viv123

Hello all! Hope everyone cycling is doing ok! 

YAAAAAY SYD Sending lots of positive vibes that those levels rise nicely!

Thats so lovely to read Lulu, again lots of positive energy and vibes that bubba keeps growing

Had my consultation with Dr G yesterday and opted out of another round of humira since I flared... had an intralipid instead, another in 3 weeks and retest along with the 2nd LIT... it truly is a bonkers process! I am trying not to get stressed. Hubbie is going through a real tough patch at the moment, so I really feel i am going through this solo with the support of amazing friends and you ladies here. I do hope it will change Anyways I'm feeling positive and chugging along!

Hugs to all.xxx


----------



## Kris76

Helloooo ladies!

Wow, wonderful messages to read!

Syd, I am ecstatic for you. Such great news.  How did your next set of bloods go?  Yes, the thought of twins is lovely, however, it is a higher risk pregnancy and birth.  No doubt super tough to look after 2 bubs. 

Lulu, likewise, I am also ecstatic for you.  So incredible, a heartbeat!  That is wonderful to get to that stage.  The fetal pole can catch up, I think it is so positive and reassuring to hear the heartbeat.  Delight in it.  2 down, 8 more of us to go.  I know we talked about feeling envious of friends when they announce pregnancies, however, I definitely don't feel that way about you wonderful ladies.  We all know how hard the struggle is.  It makes me happy to see that it can work. You might have to start knitting booties Lulu. 

Viv, now I didn't quite understand your post.  Humira? Flared? LIT? You might have to explain that to me. Glad to hear through the tough times you are still feeling positive and up beat. 

Bics, very pleased to read that your follicles are growing.  It is quite incredible how quickly they can grow. 

The 10th sounds good.  Look forward to it. 

Nothing much to report on my end.  My CoQ10 finally arrived today, so I started knocking them back.  Just been in two minds about cycling in April, well as soon as my AF arrives or waiting until May.  May will mean 3 months from my last egg collection which was in January.  I can't help but feel like too much time is passing. I'm due to go back to Melbourne in April and early May.  No doubt I will have to change my flights one way or another.  Its so hard to make any plans when cycling or waiting for AF.  Frustrating.  Turning 42 on the weekend and I am starting to really freak out like it is just too late for me with my OE.  Hard to stay positive. 

Hello to everyone else.  Hope all is well?

Lots of love and luck. xx


----------



## Tootles

Hi Ladies

Sorry I have been utterly pants at keeping up to date on here. More work dramas have kept me stressed out (just what I need)!!! 

Lulu and Syd - I love reading your updates. Keep em coming pretty please! 

Kris - are your Q10 tablets those massive red bullet ones?! I nearly choke on mine daily! 

I've been down reg'ing for a couple of weeks and had my scan today. Some fluid in my endometrium and a cyst - but was told that neither should be an issue. The young nurse struggled to find my, a'hem, entrance so to speak.  I thought she was going to end up in my belly button at one point! It was like a very bad episode of Play Your Cards Right... "higher, higher....lower, lower". After 2 minutes of trying, she stuck her head under the modesty sheet and had a good rummage round. Oh the joys of IVF!  Start on Menopur tomorrow. Was shown how to mix it all up - I'm bound to cock it up! Bring back Gonal F!! 

Love and baby dust to everyone else xx


----------



## Syd72

Oh God Tootles, that really made me laugh, I'm sorry!  We literally have no dignity left...  Thanks for asking, second set of bloods were 2737 which is a doubling time of around 37 hours.  Just have to wait now for the scan on Tuesday, will be early but should give me an indication of what's going on.

Thanks Kris.  Still can't imagine having a positive scan as I've never had one before, not long to wait now.  You're absolutely right, so hard to plan with ivf always hanging over you, it gets so bloody frustrating.  I think it really depends on how you feel as to whether you go April or May, I'm always keen to go again as soon as possible but with donor eggs it's a bit different.  I know it's easy to say but you still have a good chance at 42, I know of logs of people that have had babies in their early 40s.

Thanks Viv, glad to hear you're feeling positive.  I did intralipids yesterday, not really sure why, it's part of my protocol but I've never had any immunes testing.  In the end I decided it couldn't hurt (hope that's true...).



Lulu, can't remember if I've said this elsewhere but huge congratulations on seeing a heartbeat, great news x

Hi to everyone else x


----------



## LuluLimon

Tootles I think you're jinxed with incompetent nurses!! Hope DR is going ok this cycle. I actually seemed to respond better to menopur but DH did the mixing- did not trust myself with glass vials!

Kris I agree cycling and travel plans are not good friends. I think whatever you want will work out. A month or two won't make a difference and hell 42 is NOT over the hill- remember you got a bunch of blasts last cycle! Those eggs are golden! Timing is just something in our head to let go of- it just will happen x

Syd that's great betas. I have a positive vibe for next week for you x

And yes come on ladies 2018 is our year.

Thanks for all your wishes -:it felt real on Tuesday. I'm probably going again next Weds for one as I like to check in.

Viv- how are you after intralipids? I hope OH is feeling better...it's pretty tough on them eh? Maybe he needs a nice bike day. Just post if you want to let off steam-we are here x
Bics- have you had another scan? I hope follies are growing nicely x
Bingo/Pauli/Magicpillow Butterfly/Glitterbabe- hello hope you are all ok
Have a lovely Easter weekend everyone. I'm totally eating a whole egg.

Re April 10th- I was thinking Natural Kitchen on Baker St as it's quite big so conversations shouldn't be overheard and also it's fairly suited to the rigours of our diets! Does that sound ok? Its not gastro cuisine but I hope just relaxed. I anyone knows anywhere else nice.. suggest it 😀😀


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Haha hysterical Tootles.  I laughed a lot at that.  The nurse has one, so she should know where to locate it!  My Q10 pills are softgel and not very big at all. What dosage do you take? Got them from Biovea.com

Fabulous Syd, so glad to hear its increasing.  Must be very excited for your first scan.  I hope it all looks well. 

Natural Kitchen sounds great Lulu.  Thanks for organising. Glad to hear that you are feeling more confident about the pregnancy.  Of course, we all understand wanting to hold back initially. 

I hope everyone has a great Easter break.  I can't believe I have to work all weekend! Feeling very sorry for myself. I hate to miss out on a holiday.  Plus I don't even have a chocolate egg to console myself with. 

Hope everyone is doing well.

xx


----------



## Bics76

Hello all,

I'm sorry for the radio silence and this is going to be a quick one for now and I'll come back properly. (Lulu and Syd, what lovely updates! I'm so happy for you both. And hearing a heartbeat! What an amazing moment that must've been).  

AFM, I have egg collection tomorrow! So all of your advice and tips worked, thanks so much (so much so that I'm really uncomfortable and can hardly walk!). I'm nervous as hell and my PMA is not what it should be. It's been a mad week and not the best lead in, but I'm hoping.  

Hope you are all well and thanks again for helping me get to this stage with the wonderful advice. A week ago this seemed like it may not happen xxx


----------



## Viv123

helloooo! 

Kris,  lots of ladies are having babies into their 40s now. All my friends did too! I know the pressure of time is a horrible feeling though. I try to let it go and have always tried to let my body recover between cycles That is a pain you have to work all Easter.. hope you manage to get a choccy egg or two
Humira and Lit are all part of the immunology treatments.... I have a slight thyroid issue, so the theory is my immune system can cause a problem in pregnancy. We will see I guess. 

Bics, Exciting your collection is tomorrow! you will do amazing!

Tootles, your nurse!?! can't believe that

Syd, aww thank you..intralipids are lots of good proteins and fats. Very strange watching it go in via the drip.. tho I have to say!

Lulu, thank you glad you are feeling ok and its all feeling real now  It has been a very tough few days.. i wasn't sure if we were going to continue with the ivf prep/ cycle at this point due to the pressures he is under.. and of course all I can think is, the months are passing  I'm a bit stuck to be honest. But of course I want him to be a 100% when we do cycle... does stress affect sperm / eggs? Enough of me wallowing. The intralipds were very very strange indeed but no side effects. Im hoping it will have the desired affect. 
Happy Easter to you all and everyone else too. Natural Kitchen would be lovely for our meet up!Xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Bics loads of good luck for EC today!! 😘😘
Kris - sorry you have to work- is it your birthday too? Have a fab day XXX
Viv- sorry DH is stressed. Is freezing a sample an option? Just as back up? We did that but didn't need it in the end but is was a relief to know it was there. I have high TSH so intralipids and thyroxine seem to have done something! It is a weird sensation.

We're off to Wales for weekend. My 92 yr old grandad has had some seizures so we are visiting and trying to help my mum a little- she's an only child so has to do all the care. It won't be fully relaxing but we can go to the beach at least!


----------



## Bics76

Hi all,

Hope everyone's well. Things have finally calmed a little so I'm going to try and respond properly now, but very sorry if I forget anyone (and sorry this is so long!). 

Syd and Lulu - l'm so very happy for you both! I hope it feels real for you now. It gives me real hope and makes me smile when I read your updates. You must both be giddy with excitement 😊

Lulu, I think I will be able to make the 10th! Will know for sure this week - hope that's ok. So sorry to hear about your grandad but I hope you get to enjoy your time in Wales as best you can. 

Magic, hello, hope you're feeling a little less shattered now. Totally with you about not quite being ready to let go of this dream yet, adoption wise ❤

Viv, I was really very sorry to read about your husband and the difficult time he has had and is experiencing and of course you are too. This road is hard enough so sending big hugs to you both.  Sorry also that the ivf process has been a lonely one. This thread is magic though, isn't it, for being a virtual hug? You are not wallowing at all, it sounds like a really difficult time for you and I think you're being incredibly brave and wonderfully supportive to your husband. Here to listen always and I hope the coming days are gentle on you both. (On a lighter note, like Kris I literally had no idea what humeria or intralipids were. Makes me wonder if I know anything at all about ivf! Also sorry if I missed it but how did you get on with the investors?) 

Glitter- hello! Yes we haven't met properly so I'll do it now 😊 So very sorry for all you are going through. I had a similar discussion with my consultant about age and chromosomal abnormalities and it is really hard. 

Congratulations on completing on your property! That's so exciting. That feeling of getting your own place is the best.  Do you have the keys now? Are you in? 

(And, yes, I have had quite a good look at adoption. Trying to prepare myself really and look at options. I have two friends who recently adopted and to see their joy is quite something). 

Baby announcements are always bittersweet for me too. Happy for the couple, but always a twinge of sadness there too. It's natural when you want that to be you. 

Hi Bingo! I am just ahead of you, out of the stimming phase now and just had egg collection. Previously, I haven't found it too difficult a process (physically) but this week I really struggled with feeling very uncomfortable, heavy and tired. Not sure why, as first time round I found it fine really, and I worked straight through. Hopefully it'll be like that for you. 

Kris, wishing you a fabulous birthday this weekend 🎉🎈❤ (hope you've got yourself and Easter egg now!). I recently turned 42 so I know that panicked feeling, but I keep reminding myself that it happens to women our age all the time so we have to keep going and hoping. In terms of April or May, it's a tough one deciding what to do when you can feel time passing and you have that pressing sense of urgency but when you're also physically and mentally shattered. Either way, I think doing another collection is a really good plan so I'm sure whatever you decide will be the right thing. 

Tootles your post made me laugh. That nurse! Jeez Louise! Hope the mixing of Menopour went well and that you're feeling good. 

AFM, I had collection today and it couldn't have come sooner as I was really struggling to walk by the end. That had made me think I'd get loads of eggs as physically I found this past week so tough and I never had before, but they only collected 14 eggs. I think I would've been ok with that (albeit that I obviously was hoping for more), save that the women who came into recovery after me was accompanied but the anaesthetist who wanted to make sure she was ok as they had collected 35 eggs!! I'm trying to remember that it only takes one and that I'm lucky to be in this position after my bad start with no response to the drugs. But talking to my consultant afterwards was a bit of a downer. He is lovely and as he saw me shortly after my stillbirth he knows the journey we have had and he seems to want this to work as much as us (well not quite but you know what I mean). He was very measured and kind and was pleased with 14 eggs (or said he was!) but he kind of confirmed that we are hoping for a miracle and made it feel like the prospect of even getting to day 5 is slim. So...cheering up is required and after 6 weeks of very healthy eating, me and my husband have plans to have a bake off tomorrow, so we're making rocky road, cookies, ice buns and brownies. How to undo 6 weeks' good work in one step 😂 

Hugs to all and Happy Easter 🐣🍫 xx


----------



## Bics76

ps thanks for all of the good luck wishes re egg collection. I need it 😊


----------



## LuluLimon

Insomnia post here! Damn those steroids !!

Bics I think 14 is brilliant! Who cares if someone got 35- they might be half immature! 
All it takes is 1 star egg and with 14 there is a really good chance of a couple going to blast. Even if it ends up day 3 that is still enough for a little bubba! Have faith in those eggs and some super sperm. I'll send some lurve vibes over to your lab and hope for good mixology there tonight! 😘


----------



## Bics76

Oh bless you Lulu, you are a ray of sunshine and positivity and me and my eggs are very grateful for the lurve vibes! 😊

You are so right. I think yesterday just confirmed to us both how very much we want this to happen and the worry set in immediately but 14 is good and I've woken up feeling much calmer. Here's hoping (and also to great mixology skills!). 

Thank you again you lovely lady ❤

Off to start baking! 😀 Xxx


----------



## Viv123

Hello all!

Bics..14 is a really great number!! Large numbers I'm sure a lot would be immature. Stay positive and yes bakee! Thank you for your kind message..it has been tough, I'm just trying to stay busy and yet supportive. Soooo the investors.. well apparently the meeting went well and we should have an answer by this week...still haven't been paid for Feb though..grrrrr. Its just dragging out! 

Kris! Happy birthday!!

This lulu.... so we both finished antibiotics 2 weeks ago.. so it wasn't an option to freeze before then.. and now I don't know. I haven't mentioned anything IVF related at the moment. Did you mean your high TSH was because of the intralipds?  
I do hope all goes ok in Wales and your grand pa is ok. 

Huge hugs to all.xox


----------



## Flossieteacake

After 5 years of trying I was very fortunate to have a baby at 42.5 with PGS, and autoimmune treatments. Probably pure fluke but after 7!goes I think the PGS was worth the money. I know I am very very lucky but wanted to give you hope that we are not that old!! Xxx


----------



## miamiamo

@Flossieteacake - amazing news, congrats! Sending warm hugs


----------



## Bics76

Hello all,

Hope you all had a lovely Easter (and a happy birthday Kris!). 

Viv, thanks for your lovely message. I have calmed down (baking helped, if not my waistline!) and realise that 14 eggs is good.  We heard over the weekend that 9 have  fertilised which is great, so I'm waiting anxiously for the call as to how they have done. Trying not to worry. 

I really hope that the investors come back with good news this week and that you finally get paid!!! Keeping busy sounds like a good plan at a tough time ❤ Are you getting time to do some ballet (kept meaning to ask you about that!)? 

Hello Flossie! What an amazing and inspiring update. Gives me hope x 

How is everyone else? 

Xxx


----------



## Syd72

Afternoon all.

Bics, 14 eggs is fantastic and 9 fertilised is also fantastic, congratulations.

Flossie, wonderful news, huge congratulations.

Lulu, fortunately I find the progesterone shots overcome the steroids and I'm sleeping better than I usually do!  Still up about 3 times a night to wee but that's normal for me.  That sounds great for the 10th, thank you.

Viv, I don't think there's much proof that stress effects eggs, I believe it can be a factor with sperm although my OH has been under horrendous pressure and totally stressed almost solidly for about 10 years (really awful stuff to do with work and his ex) and his sperm tests and dna frag all come back fine...

Kris that's really rubbish you had to work all weekend, do you get those days back at all?

Tootles, how did you get on with the injections?

Afm, scan this morning.  I think I'm 6+1 and she measured me at 5+4 which does worry me a bit although she said she's not worried at all.  I saw a heartbeat, first time ever   Was measuring around 116 bpm which I think is fine for where I am.  Another scan in 2 weeks.


----------



## LuluLimon

Bics - well done on 9 fertilised! Great news 😀😀
Viv- again hope the inventors have good news and you get paid! Also hope DH is feeling a bit better. I meant to say that I had high TSH and the thyroxine and intralipids seem to have worked, so hoping it does for you.
Tootles- how is menopur treating you?

Syd that's fab news! Don't worry about the measurements- it's so tiny at this rate, I am a little 'smaller" than dates. You must be so happy 😁

Hi to everyone else!


----------



## Syd72

Thanks lulu, I am happy but it doesn't feel real yet.  I don't think I really believed I would ever get to this stage so I still keep thinking it will be snatched away from me...  

Do you think the intrallipids help the tsh?  I keep trying to work out what they're for as they were in my protocol but don't know why, I thought they were to do with immune issues.  I do have thyroid issues too although my tsh is very low right now.


----------



## Kris76

Hello ladies!!!

Hope you all had a good Easter break.  Thanks for the birthday wishes.  I worked solidly all weekend but managed to get away for a lunch and a movie yesterday for my bday. 

Bics incredible news on your collection, congratulations.  Be delighted with 14.  I would give my right arm to be able to produce 14 eggs.  It's amazing, and 9 fertilised is a brilliant result.  When do you think you will transfer?

Thanks FlossieTC, does give me hope that you were able to have a successful pregnancy at 42.    Wow, 7 rounds, that's tough.  I'm so torn between getting PGS or not. I'm glad it worked for you. 

Syd, how wonderful, you saw the heartbeat!!  How exciting.  Good luck for the next two weeks. 

How are you feeling Lulu?

How are you Viv?  I hope your husband has some better fortune come his way.  I have read studies that say stress does not effect the outcome of IVF.  Of course, it helps to not be under so much stress since the whole process its stressful within itself. 

I'm still waiting for my AF to arrive.  It feels like it is never going to come back.  Very worrisome. 

Hope everyone else is doing well?

xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Ladies unfortunately bad news from us. Our precious little bean has stopped growing and no longer a heartbeat.
I thought we were so nearly there.
I'm going to see how to manage it but I am    so determined we will have another, so down but not out. We have 3 frosties and we will try again as soon as we can.
I might take some time off xx
Lulu


----------



## Bics76

Oh Lulu, I am so very sorry. I just checked in and saw your update. Life is so bloody cruel and unfair sometimes. Sending you so much love. 

And damn right to being determined! You have every reason to be, given how far you'd come and to try again soon. For now though, take good care of yourself. I know you'll be taking care of each other. Thinking of you. 

Love and light xx


----------



## Kris76

Oh Lulu, I'm so very sorry to hear.  My heart breaks for you and your husband.  It is awful and Bics is right, cruel and unfair.  You have an amazing spirit, so impressive.  Thinking of you.  Sending you much love and comfort. xxxx


----------



## Viv123

hello all! 

Lulu, I'm soo soo sorry to read your post. You are soo strong!Soo unfair   

Thanks Syd for reassurance on sperm and stress! Hoping his won't be affected. His libido is shot tho  I don't think intralipds help with TSh, from what I read its the opposite and can aggravate it, but will see..hope all is going well and you feeling ok.

Bics, no news from the investors! can't believe it is taking soo long. Hoping tomorrow, just would make things a little less stressful. I try and do the odd ballet class but only the bar bit, need to get into more of a routine with the ol' exercise! hope your embies are doing well. 

Thank you Kris.. hubbie is working through the stress but I think its going to get worse before it gets better.. so torn as whether to put the ivf off..we will see. Anyhows, hoping your AF comes soon!

Hugs to you again Lulu.xxx


----------



## Efi78

Hi ladies

I hope you don't mind me jumping in.

Just turned 40, 4th round of IVF.
I had baseline scan two days ago, 17 follicles there, hope some of these grow

Lulu, please let me offer my condolences. I know how this feels as has happened to me twice. However, keep trying. You will definitely get there


----------



## Syd72

Lulu, I'm so so sorry to hear that, it's absolutely heartbreaking, I can't imagine going through a loss after seeing a heartbeat.  Give it a few days and then see how you feel about having a break or moving on to the next cycle x

Viv, my oh has a very low libido, mine is pretty high, it's very frustrating   Interesting about tsh and intralipids.

Welcome Efi, that's a good number of follies.


----------



## magicpillow

Hi ladies.  I'm so sorry I haven't been responding much, I've just been so run down and ill that I've not been doing anything other than going to work.  I've been ill for about 2 months now so I'm doing a bit of a detox now.  Hoping for some energy soon, just want to feel well again.  Think after all the IVFs and miscarriages, my body has just had enough.  It means I wouldn't be able to do 10th now which is a shame as I love meeting people.  Am just trying to focus on going to work and then resting when I get home.  Have had to cancel so many social events!

Lulu I'm so sorry to hear your news, that's so tough.  Take all the time you need to process things before your next go.  It's heartbreaking when that happens. xxx

Bics, great news on the egg count - fantastic numbers!  Fingers crossed it all goes well from here.

I think when I finally recover and get my health back it's looking like donor eggs or adoption for us as I don't think I could put myself through another full IVF cycle with such low odds and high chance of miscarriage with own eggs.  It's hard to get my head around but I might try some counselling later on.  The focus now is to get healthy and just enjoy some couple time without having to think about treatment. Love to you all xxxx


----------



## Tootles

Oh Lulu - I'm so so gutted / angry / sad for you. It's so beeping unfair. I think so much more needs to be researched into the viability of IVF pregnancies because we go through so much more and to see the heartbeat, only for it to end in MC is utter torture. I hope you can draw from the positives, because there are some. You have got pregnant. So many ladies don't get that far. Your body can do it, and you have eggs that will fertilise. You need a bit of luck and I so hope you keep going and find it. Sending you a huge hug you lovely lady X

Hi Magic - hope you are on the mend. I totally agree, IVF is tough pysically as well as mentally. Taking time to recover is essential, but even that's hard. I hope you reach a decision that allows you to feel happy and in a positive place. In the meantime, I hope you have lots of couple time and treats X 

Hi Efi - welcome to our little gang of over 40's stunners!! 17 is a great number. Hope you get lots of good growth. 

Syd - lovely to read that everything is progressing. Roll on two weeks for your next scan. It's so hard to relax into the positives, but hope you manage to enjoy it. Do you have to have more blood tests? Sending you tonnes of chilled and encouraging vibes lovely lady X

Bics! Any news? 14 is great, as is 9 to fertilise. It's such an anxious time but I hope that you are managing to stay cool and calm. Any more baking?! I'm going baking mad. Bought Sweet by Ottolenghi and have made some fab stuff. Lots of new ingredients for me, cooked with Halva for the first time. One recipe has a vitamin C tablet it in!  

Viv - how are you doing lovely? I'm so sorry you've had a tough time. How's hubby? Have those pesky investors got things sorted? Hoping you have a nice weekend in store X

Kris - has AF kicked in? If not, go out and buy yourself the most expensive white fancy knickers you can find. Did you manage to get a chocolate egg? I didn't get a single one either! Hope work has calmed down for you. I'm on 100mg of Q10 daily. I've bought one of those tablet dispensers with the days of the week on. Yep, 42 going on 82! 

Afm, I had a scan yesterday (and a lovely mature nurse who found the entrance very easily!) and was flabbergasted to have 21 follicles growing. Only one was a decent size though, and three were really tiny and not worth measuring, so once again showing its quality they need and not quantity. I'm worrying that too many eggs are compromising the chance for the good ones to grow.  Back in on Monday for another scan and I think egg collection will likely be next Wed.  I feel like a beached whale and have terrible wind - a real catch hey?! Off to pluck my beard!


----------



## pauli

Ladies
Many thanks for your kind words about my father and your encouragement. I means a lot to be able to share with you and knowing you'd understand.  Apologies I have not been posting any updates, been up and down... and I am gutted as I cannot join you for a meet up on 10th April. I will be away with work ;-(. I was waiting until Friday to see if I could get out of the trip, but sadly no. Have a good time!  

Lulu, I am so sorry for your loss. Hope you are finding comfort with your family. I remember that your DH has been always so supportive. Your DS probably keeps you busy and forces you move forward. Keep faith in your frozen embies! 

Bics, great number of eggs collected! You should absolutely think so. What is the latest update from the lab? Planning to do a fresh transfer?  

Syd, so pleased for you. Great to see everything is progressing as it should be. As others said, I would not worry about the size, seeing the heartbeat must be special ;-) Fingers crossed all continues well. Where are you getting your scans, could you recommend the place in London?  

Welcome Efi, good luck with your cycle. AFC is amazing!  

Kris, Viv, Tootles... hope you are doing well and enjoying the weekend. Tootles, how is your cycle going? 

AFM Our last cycle in March was very strange. I was on a short agonist protocol (have not tried it before), it caused a slower growth of the follicles compared to the previous cycles, and despite some follicles disappearing between scans, I had 10 in a range which should yield an egg. Sadly on EC day only 4 eggs were collected despite 10 follicles being aspirated. Clinic did not offer any explanation as to why... and I never experienced this in the past cycles. I always had a egg in each follicle. Despite a low number of eggs, we had 2 blasts transferred on day 5 (one starting to expand 3AA and the other one was an early blast). 

We decided not to do PGS as we had 2 cycles in 2017 and all tested blasts were aneuploid. But some of the abnormalities were minor (eg monosomy 1) and hypothetically there could have been a small chance of embryo correcting itself if if implanted. That was a miracle I was hoping on our last cycle. 

I need your advice ladies. I had a positive HPT, so I did bloods, but the levels are very low (11dp5dt - 63.7 and 13dp5dt - 93.3) and only 50% increase in 48 hours. I have no other symptoms (except some spotting) so I am thinking that low and slow rising betas could mean a blighted ovum. Do you know what is the earliest time a scan would detect a blighted ovum? 

Those who are based in UK, do you know if I can get an early scan through NHS? I had my cycle abroad, so I paid for the bloods privately. But if I will need some medication to manage/bring MMC, I would probably need to speak to a GP or get a referral to see a Consultant in a hospital? Any advice is much appreciated, I have never had a BFP or pregnancy blood tests, so it is all new territory and not sure about the next steps. Many thanks. 

Just editing my post as I have seen an update from Tootles - a great number of follicles growing!!! You are flying a flag high for the over 40s ;-) Hope all is well with the next scan and EC next week!!!  

Have a good weekend, everyone 
xx


----------



## Tootles

Hi Pauli

Do you have a good GP? I'd make an appointment and see what they recommend. It may be that they send you to an Early Prgnancy Unit at hospital, which is what happened with me each time there was an issue.  Have you done another HPT? I know that the blood multiplier can be sporadic with some people.  

I'm so sorry that you are going through this. It's such a worry.  I found that our IVF clinic really didn't want to know, or help, after egg transfer. Once they've done their bit you're on your own with my clinic and in the hands of the NHS.  My first MC passed naturally. My second was taken care of with surgery. My third, I decided to stay at home and again passed naturally. 
With my second MC I found out when having a private scan at The Fetal Medicine Centre in London. In all honesty, I'm not sure I'd go back there. They were pretty disorganised and not particularly caring. 

I hope you can get some answers. This is the hardest part of IVF in my opinion - that elusive positive and then the worry that follows is an absolute   

Sending love and hugs xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Hi ladies
Tootles that's a great number of follies. The smaller ones won't necessarily compromise quality- I got 18/21 mature eggs in the end. I emphasize with the whale feeling...it won't be long x
Pauli- that's the horrible part. If our have private health insurance I would call them as they usually cover pregnancy and hopefully not, but miscarriage treatment too. I've just found that out. Otherwise it's a trip to EpU, but it depends on the area CCG as sometimes you will need a GP referral to get an appointment. I think the earliest would be 6 weeks. I had this in Sept 16- around 6.5 weeks I started to bleed naturally and there was nothing in the uterus-. It I was in France at the to me for work, so they arranged it all.

Luckily I seem to have passed the lining and sac today. Ita been painful but at home. I have a scan tomorrow so will know for sure, but I am happy if I don't have to have D&C. I actually feel ok- I am glad it didn't progress further if it was a weak embryo and pure right Tootles, I can get pregnant and I will again with a stronger embryo. Its just the time out that sucks.
I could be ok for Tuesday evening+ I will know after tomorrow evening's appointment. I could do with a glass of wine and people who understand.

Love to all x Lulu
#unbowed, unbent, unbroken ( yes I am still waiting for new GoT!!)


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hey, been a bit quiet on here for a few weeks, a lot going on. 
But great to hear that there has been some good news on here and really hope the meet up goes well. x


----------



## Syd72

Magic, sorry to hear you've had such a rough time, hope that focusing on yourself and your health for a while helps a huge amount x

Tootles, a lovely number of follicles!  Good luck with the scan today.  I'm not having any more bloods but due to the spotting continuing and getting heavier over the weekend I've booked another scan for tomorrow, I just can't wait another 1 1/2 weeks to see what's going on.  Combination of heavy spotting and no symptoms is really worrying me x

Thanks Pauli.  I had the scan last week in Maidstone as I'm staying at my parents, have one in London tomorrow so will let you know what the place is like.  Congrats on your bfp but sorry it's so worrying   My first miscarriage was a blighted ovum, I started bleeding at 5 weeks and went for a scan, they should be able to detect the gestational sac at that stage, she said it was too small for how far along I was.  I had to go back for 2 more scans over the next 2 weeks just to be sure nothing was developing.  So they should be able to tell you at about 5 weeks if things aren't going well but they won't confirm anything for another couple of weeks.  At this stage you're probably better off having another blood test.  My understanding from reading these boards is that the nhs won't send you for a scan this early as there's nothing really to see.  If it is a chemical pregnancy/early miscarriage (and I really hope it isn't) you are likely not to need medication, it will just all happen naturally and just be like a slightly heavier and more painful period.  I would definitely see your gp just to find out next steps, and also contact your clinic.  Very best of luck x

Lulu, I hope everything has passed when you go for your scan today, it is bloody painful when it happens naturally at home   It would be so lovely to meet you tomorrow night so hope you can make it but totally understand if you can't.  Can I do anything to help - do you want me to book a table or anything? x

Hi Tiger x


----------



## Kris76

Hello ladies

My conference is finally done with as of yesterday.  Flew back late last night from Edinburgh.  So tired, so mainly veged out today.  

Lulu, how are you feeling?  Well that is a bit of a silly question, I know.  I hope physically you are feeling ok?  I am glad that you were able to pass the sac naturally and not have to have an ERPC.  I hope that scan is clear.  I have been thinking a lot about you.  

Syd, I really hope that isn't anything serious.  Definitely can't wait for another scan.  Of course it is worrying, however, there are a lot of women as Im sure you already know, that spot/bleed and still have a healthy pregnancy.  My fingers and toes are crossed for you. 

Bics, what is the update on your end?  You should be due for a transfer?

Viv, hope all is as well as can be with you and your husband.  Have you had anymore thoughts about having a break or not?

Tootles, wow, that is a huge amount of follicles.  Amazing, well done.  I hope they continue to grow to where they need to be.  I hear you, I have been playing with my beard all weekend.  Time for it to go tonight.  Also, great to hear that the sonographer didn't stick the dildo camera in your ear. 

Pauli, it is not uncommon for not all the follicles to have eggs.  It can vary so much from cycle to cycle.  I had one where all follicles had an egg and other where I had 11 follicles and only 4 eggs collected. They told me that was normal and don't have an explanation as to why it happens.  Yes, congrats on the BFP, I hope that the levels continue to rise.  When I needed an NHS scan when i MC, I went to my GP and she referred me to the Early Pregnancy Unit at Chelsea & Westminster.  I saw the GP on the Saturday and was in for a scan by Monday morning. Best of luck with it.  If only we can will it all to be ok. 

Welcome Efi. Wonderful amount of follicles.  I hope they keep growing. 

Magic, I hope you get back on track soon health wise.  I think adoption and or donor eggs are very exciting options.  I wish you all the best with it. 

Hope everyone else is managing, Butterfly, Viv, Glitterbabe...sorry if I have missed someone. 

AFM, there have been no signs of AF.  However, during my conference on Saturday I went to the loo...to get away from delegates really and there it was.  I basically fist pumped the air and yelled yes.  There were a couple of perplexed ladies when I left the cubicle. It put a spring in my step for the rest of the weekend. Who would think that a period would be so exciting to get.  I am going in for a scan tomorrow and will pick up my drugs. Back to the injections and round 3, lets hope it's the charm.  We exchanged on a house today, and getting my period on Saturday got a better response from me.  I can't wait to meet up tomorrow.  Have we decided on a time?  Lulu, completely understand if you aren't up to it, obviously it would be so great to meet you and have that wine.  

See you all tomorrow!  I still have a flight booked for Australia tomorrow night.  I was waiting to see if I got my period, which I have, so I better change that asap.  

xxxx


----------



## pauli

Ladies 
Many thanks for your practical advice. I contacted the IVF clinic - they think it is either blighted ovum or etopic! That got me slightly worried as I am away with work all of this week, so really hoping it is not etopic. I managed to book a phone consultation with GP on Friday (I wanted a blood test but they will not book it for me unless I speak to GP). HPT still shows positive, but I did not have a new blood test since Friday. If I am correct, blighted ovum would show as positive on HPT.    

My GP surgery is not helpful at all. And it is not easy to organize blood tests privately as there are no labs nearby, I need to travel to London for that. In the past when I needed blood tests ahead of the IVF treatment, I even offered to pay at my GP surgery (to save myself a trip to London) and they still would not do it! Good to know I could contact private insurance I have through work as the last resort. 

Tootles, how was your scan today? EC on Wednesday?  

Lulu, you are a strong woman, you have my admiration. I hope your scan showed that all is well and you do not need D&C.  

Syd, how was the scan in London today? Could you recommend the place? I have only tried Ultrasound Direct / Baby bond in different locations and it was a mixed experience. The actual equipment seemed quite old and did not give a lot of details. So hoping to find somewhere with more modern equipment.      

Hello to everyone else  
xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Hi ladies
Unfortunately I haven't passed the sac- I just wonder what on earth all the massive clots ive been passing were!! Has anyone had a natural MC and knows?!!! Naive me. So she wants me back in tomorrow evening if I am bleeding heavily in the day otherwise Thursday morning and potentially a D&C if it still hasn't gone.
I'm really in two minds so hoping I get some clarity in my sleep. 
For tomorrow, Syd I've booked a table for 6 under Natalie at 5.45. I will try and come but it will likely be nearer 6.45 for me once I have been for the scan.

Syd I hope it's just spotting- it is very common, as are few symptoms so keep in there!
Kris I'm glad your AF has come I know I'd have he same reaction  Congrats on the house too!
Pauli did you get any joy at a GP?
Hi Tiger, Magic, Tittles, Viv, Bics, Glitterbabe- !

X


----------



## Kris76

Oh no Lulu.  That's what happened to me.  I was passing huge liver looking clots and thought it was the sac.  I had a haematoma, a lot of bleeding in my uterus, so it was simply huge blood clots.  I suspect you are experiencing something similar.  It is completely horrifying.  There is still a chance that you will pass it naturally. I am so sorry this is happening to you. 

Not sure how everyone else is, however, I am very flexible and am happy to move the time for you. 

Pauli, shame your GP is not helpful.  At least you have the private insurance.  I hope you manage to get a test. 

Best of luck. 
xxx


----------



## Syd72

Also happy to move the time.  So sorry Lulu, When I passed the sac the first time it felt quite hard and looked “whole” if that makes sense. Thinking of you x


----------



## LuluLimon

Hi ladies
What if we did 6.30? I won't be able to stay for ages but it would be lovely to meet.
My mobile is 07939008766 if any probs.
Natural Kitchen, Baker St.


----------



## Kris76

Hi Lulu, 6.30 works for me. Good luck today, you too Syd.  Hope all is well. 

x


----------



## Syd72

Thanks ladies, all fine today so can breathe a bit but still so early...

Looking forward to seeing you at 6.30.


----------



## Bics76

Hello all,

So sorry for the radio silence - there has been lots going on for us aside from the IVF, all pretty stressful. (Sorry if I miss anyone I have been reading through and trying to catch up). 

Lulu, I have been thinking of you and even more so reading your latest updates. I'm so sorry. Your strength is inspiring and I really hope that you have a lovely time tonight. You deserve a lovely night. I hope the scan goes well tomorrow (hope that makes sense). 

Pauli, thanks for your lovely message and I'm so sorry it's such a worrying time for you. I hope you've had some luck with your private insurance now? If not, is it possible to speak to another GP at your surgery? When I had an ectopic it was my GP who referred me to the EPU (my ivf clinic were absolutely rubbish and my GP was livid and got things moving that day). Not sure where you are based but I have also gone to Hammersmith EPU without a referral at roughly 6 weeks when I had bleeding. Receptionist wasn't happy about it (at all!) but the drs were all lovely and saw me. I really hope that all is ok. 

Hi Tiger. Thinking of you 

Syd, so glad to hear that things are still going well although sorry it's been such a worry. The early days are really hard and worrisome  ❤

Viv, I hope you finally got some investor news?  Hope also that things will soon get better for your husband. It must be so hard waiting to see what happens ivf wise, but you are so supportive ❤ 

Tootles thanks for your lovely message. Yes 9 was good and they managed to send off 6 for PGS (more below). Have not been very cool or calm (more obsessive worrying about the phone call next week with the results) so yes I've gone baking mad (millionaires shortbread is next in my list!) and my diet has gone totally out of the window while I'm in this horrible waiting stage! I had done so well for such a long time before now but I can't get my healthy groove back. Wow, I'm going to get that book, it sounds great (and quite virtuous!). I have been doing lots of Charlotte Oates recipes. I love her website (especially the Creme egg rocky road!! Mmm). 

That's a really good number of follicles! Hope they have all caught up now. How was the scan yesterday? Are you still on track for egg collection tomorrow? 

Kris, so glad to hear that your AF came! Finally! (Tootles' expensive white knickers suggestion was a good one though!). Are you about to start the fresh cycle? I have updated below about me (thanks very much for asking). Congrats on the house. Very exciting news! But yep I'd also be more excited about AF! 

Hi Efi, that's great news about your follicles. Hope they continue to flourish! 😊 how are they doing now? 

Hi Magic. Thanks for the lovely message.  It sounds like a good plan to just take some time, recover your health and enjoy having some nice couple time together. What you've been through is gruelling. 

Hi to everyone else. 

Thanks all for your lovely messages asking how I'm getting on cycle wise. We were lucky to have 6 embryos to send off for PGs analysis, but the quality of all of them was not great. That was pretty gutting (especially as in my head the ubiquinol had worked wonders for my eggs!) but I guess that's what PGS is for. We'll see whether any of them may ultimately be ok, as they've explained that good looking embryos don't necessarily turn out to be normal when analysed (and "ugly" embryos can end up being cute babies etc). So we're just waiting now for the results to come back and if they're ok it'll be a frozen cycle. I have no idea about timing or anything more than that (don't even know if I'll need to start birth control again if I do a frozen cycle) as they've just said they'll let me know what's what when the results are back. Which feels very unsatisfactory. I am very tempted to try naturally this month! 

Having now done this PGS route, I'm not sure we'd do it again. This wait feels much worse than the 2ww, as it'll be crushing news if all of the embryos are abnormal and I think on reflection that we'd both have preferred to go into it 'blind' and take our chances. Unfortunately, it's only by doing it that we've realised how we feel about it! Trying hard to stay positive but I'm hating the waiting. 

It's looking like I won't make the catch up tonight which is gutting. I was so looking forward to meeting you all. My husband is still away with work and my mum is ill so I have no one to look after my little boy. I hope you all have a fabulous time and I'm sorry not to be there too. Please can we do another meet up soon? I'll hide my husband's passport so work can't get in the way 😉 

Phew that was a long message. Sorry! 
Xxx


----------



## LuluLimon

Bics- big hugs! You can come and bake for me any day!!
I am sorry it's been a tough wait for the PGS. I feel like our poor little cub is proof that it's not the theoretical best of the bunch that make cute babies.
Stay strong...let's hope we have results with a frozen cycle. I'm also going to try naturally this month- sod the low sperm malarky! I'm banking on the mc makes you a bit more fertile line😉
We can of course do another meet up soon: maybe we'll have a delightful run of miracles in the coming months.. I'm kinda hopeful that despite everything 2018 is a fertile year for us all. 

Believe in your strong embryos 😘 it's not always about the science.


----------



## Bics76

Lulu, I would happily bake for you. Any day! Tell me your favourite and I will practice 😊

Thank you for such a lovely message. You are truly magical - you can see blue skies even on cloudy days ❤

I'm really struggling with the waiting and worrying and you have have given me a lift. I will work hard on the PMA and belief in my little embryos. 

I'm in with the trying naturally plan! Let's do it (with our respective partners not together 😂)! Off to buy some opks and give this a serious go. If nothing else it is something else to be obsessed about over the next 9 days! Low sperm be damned 😊

Yes yes yes to 2018 bringing us all some much needed luck and happy news. Have a lovely time tonight and yep count me in for the next one.

Thank you ❤

😘xx


----------



## Viv123

Hello all!! So I was at NK at 5.30 and was determined to stay but I had my biopsy at 4.30 and i was in a lot of pain as I didn't take any painkillers ( duh) so had to come home and dose up on Ibuprofen. They have just kicked in   Super sad I won't get to meet you all, but next time I'm there!
Bics, huge hugs to you!! Stay strong... I know the waiting is the worst bit! You are doing so amaze.    
Sadly no investor news yet.. seriously it is not helping on the stress front  hubbie is up in the air... but still carrying on with the immune treatments, if anything will def. push back a month I think for ivf..cant believe we are already in April!

Huge hugs to all you lovely ladies. Have fun tonight.xox


----------



## LuluLimon

Ah Viv- we were like ships passing! We will see you next time x
I'm sorry your biopsy was painful 😖 I would've done the same
I can't believe no news from the investors- that's ages now. Hopefully a month's wait will see less stress all around.

Bics- oh that so kind 😘😚 I'm not sure I feel it all the time myself,it's a lovely image for an art therapy exercise- thank you x. And um..I'm a.carrot cake girl 🍰
Surely even with a couple million sperm, it's possible eh?

Syd/Kris lovely to meet you superwomen.

Tootles- I hope all on for tomorrow GOOD LUCK! I hope they manage to find the right place to look 😁  Hoping for a bumper crop.


----------



## Tootles

Morning lovely ladies
Just a quickie to say I hope you had a good'un last night. I would ask if there are any sore heads but the days of late nights and vino seem a distant memory!
I triggered last night so egg collection tomozza. Eeeek. 
Lots of love xx


----------



## Tigs33

hi all,

Thought I would just pop in and say hi  , currently 4+6 with a donor egg.  Hoping this little one is a fighter and sticks !


----------



## Syd72

Lulu, thanks so much for organising last night, it was fantastic to meet you and Kris.  

Welcome Tigs and congratulations.

Tootles, shame not to meet you last night, good news on triggering and best of luck for tomorrow!  Yep, no sore heads, lots of waters, juices and herbal teas floating around   We decided once we all have our babies we need a gin night out!

Viv, don't blame you, I found the scratch painful enough let alone a biopsy!  Sorry not to have met you.

Bics, totally understand how you are feeling but you just don't know, you could end up with some great embies!  It's nothing but horrible waits doing this, the tww, the wait for results, the way for blood tests, the wait for scans...  PGS is definitely something I could consider if we have to go again.

Pauli, yes, blighted ovum would still show as positive.  It took a while for me to get back to negative even after I had miscarried.  The place I went to yesterday was great, the woman I saw was really lovely and seemed very knowledgeable.  It's called The Birth Company and is on Harley Street, they do bloods there as well.  The equipment seemed pretty up-to-date and I was able to hear the heartbeat despite only being 7 weeks so I think it must be pretty good to be able to do that?  Very best of luck x

Hi to everyone else.


----------



## Bics76

Morning all, 

Tootles, good luck!! Hope all goes really well today. 

Viv, you poor love, hope you're feeling a little less sore today? Come on already investors! They're really not helping matters are they? 

Hi Tigs, congratulations that's really lovely news! 

Lulu, all true, your sunny and supportive disposition is amazing. Carrot cake! Right, I'll practice that one 😊 

It actually is possible. It happened with my second son, and straight away, after it taking years (and years!) and ivf cycles to have my first son. I haven't had any luck since losing him but I really do believe it's possible. 

Syd, thanks for your lovely message. Yes, the waiting and hoping is brutal as we all know. I know in my head that PGS makes sense, and the idea is to save some later heartache. It's just hard having another thing to pin my hopes on and to wait for before I even get properly going. But, yes, PMA!!  Here's hoping there's a good one in there 🤞Hope you're feeling well. That clinic you went to sounds fab x 

Glad you all had a lovely time last night. 

Hi to everyone else. 

Have a lovely day all
Xxx


----------



## Viv123

Thank you lovely ladies! So sad i didn't get to meet you. Feeling much better today..the biopsy itself was not took bad.. it was the cramping that kicked in 30 mins later. So glad I;m not gonna be doing that again. I know Dr Quenby does 2 of them!  
Investors are super stress.. it has been since Feb and I hate being in a limbo of not knowing whether to find something new or just hang tight.  Eeeek. Thank you sooo soo much for your support.  
Hello Tigs! Crossing everything! 
Tootles, good luck with the collection! 
Bics, I'm with you too for the trying naturally plan! Im gonna have to do some serious seduction on the ol' hubbie who has lost all libido with all the stress but dammit I'm gonna try    When do you find out your results? Im sure it will all be ok!! I know that doesn't help. 
Hugs to you all.xox


----------



## Bics76

Hi all,

Hi Viv, glad that you're feeling better after the biopsy. Really sorry about your investor situation though. What a nightmare that it's been going on for so long. Let's hope they pull their collective fingers out and give you an answer soon. 

Ok, so it looks like the trying naturally plan has some momentum! Good luck to us all!

I find out about PGS next Thursday, so still a long time to wait. I'm definitely not a patient person (I'm normally a pee on a stick at 5dpo kind of girl...ahem maybe previously even at Day 4 😮) so I'm finding the waiting tricky. Thank you Viv (it does help) ❤
I'm hoping (hard) for some good luck. 

Tootles, how did EC go? Well I hope. 

Lulu, hope your scan went ok ❤

Efi, hope your follicles are still going great guns. 

Pauli, have you managed to get a scan/see someone now? Hope all is ok x 

Syd, Magic, Kris, how you're all ok. 

Hey to everyone else (and sorry to anyone I've forgotten) x


----------



## Viv123

Hellooo all! 

Bics, thank you so much... so finally some news. The investors have decided to close the company...but thank goodness I will be paid till the end of April  . Its a little sad, but frankly I think its for the best as with new investments comes new pressures... so this way i can just chill, take on bits of freelance work and try and get relaxed! Hubbie has basically said he wants to do ivf sooner ( uuuughhh  )  and trying naturally looks a little bleak right now.  . I also did something to my neck this morning, went into a chinese masseuse lady who basically talked me into an allergy test as my "liver is Hot and so is my body!"  I thought why not, I've had every other test under the sun why not this to boot!  

Good luck with your Au natural ) and I'm thinking of you for good PGS news... I'm the same.. zero patience at all!

Tootles, hoping it went well! 

Lulu thinking of you!

Hi to everyone else and hope you are doing ok.xox


----------



## LuluLimon

This welcome and congrats hoping it's a fighter X

Bics wow that's a long weight! I'm not a keen POAS tester but in terms of actual finding out results it's be way too long

Viv that's sad but good in terms of stress for you. Having work on your terms is much easier whilst doing a cycle. Can't remember what industry you work in but in IT/Finance there's always stuff going

Afm- scan showed no progress, despite some whoppers of clots shooting out ( delightful!) So I went for a D&C this morning. Just wanted it over with. I seriously have never bleeding so much this last week- I look like a vampire. Which is ironic as I'm playing Skyrim again (yep Geek fest) and my character caught vampirism yesterday  
I spoke to my own gynaecologist yesterday who reassured me it was ok having an operation which made me feel ok about doing it rather than waiting again. So I'm having one indulgent week from now then back on the wagon.
At least Lost in Space and new WestWorld will be out soon.

Onwards and upwards ladies! Our babies are out there 

Love to all - Syd, Kris, Magic, Pauli, Tootles, Efi,


----------



## Syd72

Ah lulu, I'm glad it's all sorted for you, I think going for the d&c was definitely the right thing to do.

I just saw an advert for Lost in Space yesterday, exciting!

Viv, glad you at least have an answer now - keep us posted on your hot liver!

Bics, I have no patience either, it does feel like it's taking an awfully long time for your results 

No real news from me, spotting was quite heavy and red again yesterday and I'm cramping quite a bit, just sick and tired of being worried all the time, wish I could have a scan on my way to work every morning...

Hi to everyone else x


----------



## Tootles

Morning lovely ladies

Syd - I hate to think of you worrying. When is your next scan?  You've done so amazingly well so far. Have you got anything planned for the weekend? Something nice and gentle that will distract your mind for a little while would be ideal.

Lulu - how are you doing? I couldn't agree more with your approach of just wanting to get on, especially with all of the bleeding you've had. Your body will be healing now, and some indulgences will only help. This is not a time for lettuce! ive got no idea what Skyrim is, but if it makes you happy I hope you smother yourself with it from head to toe! We all have an inner geek. My guilty pleasure is gardening (shhhh don't tell anyone)! Your attitude has just been so admirable and a positive mind can only do good. High five to you Lulu. 

Viv - a hot liver hey? I'd take that as a compliment! How's your neck? Like Syd, I'm glad for you that you've got an answer at least on the work front. The last thing you need is added stress from an outside source. It's bad enough the stress that IVF creates. Does this mean that you can take some time out for yourself for a wee while?  I hope so. There are so few chances in our working lives to do that. Hope you are hubby can come to an agreement on next steps. I think me and my other half will be having the same chat after this cycle. 

Bics - urgh, the waiting is such a bummer. But the weekend is here, and it is forecast to be sunny next week so hopefully that will make time fly a little more. Why does it take so long? Is it the process, or are they just busy? My clinic is manic. Apparently they put it down to lots of couples starting IVF at the start of the year and now's the time it all kicks off with egg collections etc. 

Kris - how are you getting on? Are you injecting yet? I bet those ladies in the loo were baffled! Doesn't AF pick her moments! What's the latest on the house? When do you get the keys? It's all going on for you!

Pauli - how are things? I hope you're ok lovely. The last thing you need is a heavy week with work X

Hi Tigs - congrats on the result. Always so nice to hear good news.

AFM - I got 18 at egg collection which I was amazed at. It was a particularly dishy doctor and I was worried sick that I'd release all the trapped wind his way during the procedure!  

14 have fertilised so it's a waiting game to see how many make it, if any, to day 5.

I'm feeling very chilled though, and resigned to a "what will be, will be" approach. I can't change the outcome so no point worrying at this stage. I've realised more and more that life is short. It was the one year anniversary of a good friend's death this week and it's really made me be even more grateful for my lot in life. Not signing off on a glum note - I'm sure Paula is looking down on me with a massive GnT telling me to turn the music up and chill the heck out! XxxX 

Sending positive chilled vibes to everyone xx


----------



## CEce40

Hey ladies, room for a little one?

Sorry I've been AWOL. Hit a bit a dark patch in January and took myself out of the game to regroup and give myself a good old talking to. We spent some money on ourselves rather than handing it straight over to a clinic and took ourselves off on a fab holiday. Now I'm back, recharged with positivity and ready to rumble.

I'm 2 weeks in to a mock donor cycle with a clinic in Spain. If all goes well our lovely Spanish Easter Bunny will be showering us with a bumper crop of free range, size large, Delia approved eggs in mid May. The drugs are knocking me a bit, some unfortunate incidents from both ends (occasionally at the same time - a new lifetime low!) but I've got my eye on the price and I'm powering through. I managed to use my bad guts as an excuse to get out of a weekend at the inlaws so, you know, every cloud   

I've been catching up on all your goings on. Lots of highs and lows but an unshakeable amount of strength, support and positivity from all of you amazing fillies. You're one awesome group. Lulu, devastated for you, Syd, got my fingers crossed and Tootles, bloody hell lady, all that beard growing was well worth it. 18 eggs! I'm tempted to tell my 20 something senorita to stand down and tap you up for some of yours!

Hi to everyone I've not met and hello again to all who remember me x


----------



## Tootles

CECE!!! Welcome back you little beauty!! So lovely to hear from you! You can't keep a top chick down. Exciting times ahead! Really happy for you that you're going again. Not so happy for you about those side effects! Oh the glamour!!


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Sorry for the extended absence, I needed to take a bit of time to get over our failed first round and get my head around tackling round 2.

Lulu - I'm so sorry for your loss, you are such a brave lady and your positive attitude is so inspiring  

Syd - Congratulations and I hope the spotting settles down soon for you, I know it's really worrying but it's ever so common in early pregnancy x

Bics - Hope you get some fab results from the PGS testing, I'm not sure I could put up with the extra waiting time etc but if it means you get that golden embryo then it's well worth it x

Kris - Lovely to see you back in the game so soon Hun x

Cece - I second Tootles with a massive welcome back! x

Tootles - Wow 14 fertilized is a fab number well done you! I hope a good few get to day 5 (I know Nurture insist on the day 5 thing now which doesn't help the waiting stress) 

AFM - I got told to wait another cycle back at my review in March (Boo!) I need to call Nurture on day 1 of this cycle which looks like it might be today or tomorrow as my usual pre-period spotting is getting heavier today even though it's only day 26 (hey ho I will never understand my body lol). This cycle I will be on Menopur 300 and Gonal-F 150 per day which I pretty much expected to try and get a few more eggs to play with. I also got offered Clexane and Prednisolone or Dexamethasone which the doctor said may help with implantation and support in the first 12 weeks if I get a BFP. I was a bit surprised at the Clexane as I've never had a miscarriage an my thrombophillia tests all came back OK after my daughter's death at full term so not really sure why I would need it?

It did feel a bit like the doctor was just offering me everything they had even though she said there was no evidence that the steroids or the Clexane would help. Has anyone else had any experience of these extra drugs? Are they expensive to buy? I only budgeted for the normal stimms etc so don't really have extra funds unless they are really going to help. I also don't want to end up like a pincushion lol, I'm already on Q10, DHEA, Seven Seas multi vitamins (the trying for a baby ones) and Melatonin so starting to feel like a one woman pharmacy  

Love and baby dust to all you fab ladies xxx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Oh also - Lulu I haven't played Skyrim but loved Morrowind and Oblivion, is it as good as them? Fantasy escapism is the best   x


----------



## Kris76

Hello lovely ladies!!

Sorry for the silence, flat out over here. We exchanged on the house last week.  Too busy to mark the occasion.  Getting ready to list our flat, agent photographer coming on Thursday morning.  I've been busy gardening...lots of dead plants from the winter, power washing, painting and little bits of maintenance here and there.  I'm exhausted!

It was an absolute pleasure to meet with Lulu and Syd.  Such lovely ladies.  

Lulu, I hope you are recovering well from the D&C.  I do think it is best just to have it done as soon as you can and start the recovery process. Yes, I have experienced those awful huge clots, not something I would want to drag on.  Thinking of you.  Indulge and get back on the rollercoaster.  You are so strong. 

Syd, how are you feeling?  I hope the bleeding has stopped. Have you been for another scan.  I know what you mean about the constant worry, its exhausting. My fingers are crossed for you. 

Toots, amazing number of eggs collected!  That is a bumper crop.  Very impressive.  How are they cooking?  When are you expected to transfer?  You will have loads spare, lucky you.  Good luck with it. 

Viv, shame about the investors.  Glad you have a positive spin on it. A bit of downtime and freelancing sounds like it is needed.  Hard to be busy with work and cycle at the same time. 

Bics, good luck with the PGS testing.  Any day now.  I hope they are all ok.  It must be such a nerve wracking wait. 

Butterfly, so good to see you back and doing well.  Nothing wrong with an extra month off.  Glad you can cycle again now.  I hope it all goes well.  Sounds like they are throwing everything at you.  Yes, it can all get very expensive.  I would just ask them if you absolutely need it, it seems a lot. 

Cece, so great to see you back in the game. Yikes, side effects are not great, but good work on getting out of the weekend with the inlaws.  I hope all goes well in Spain.  I know, Toots could supply us all. 

I started my stims last Tuesday.  I've been too busy to give it much thought really.  However, I have some nice bruises from the cetrotide.  When I injected it the other night, i squirted blood all over the place, including my brand new slippers.  I've had a couple of scans, was disappointed with the one I had yesterday as it showed 4 runaway dominant follicles, with 6 other smaller ones.  I only have 1 on my right.  Remember, I'm only firing on 1 cylinder.  Totally reliant on my left.  Last cycle they pretty much grew all at the same time.  I have eager beavers this time.  Was feeling pretty low last night.  I went in for another scan today it showed that 3 of them are trying to catch up at 13mm.  So I hope they make it. I can't ask for more than 7 viable follicles from the one ovary at the ripe old age of 42. I still have no idea how I got to 42 so quickly. 

I am going for collection on Friday.  I hope there are some good eggs in there.  I'm really over doing all of this. 

I better go back to painting the garden wall.  Fun times.  I just want to be sitting in the deck chair enjoying the sun with a giant Aperol spritz in my hand. 

Love to all 

xx


----------



## LuluLimon

Ah it's sunny at long last!

Butterfly- I was on that cocktail. For me I think it helped, though I don't get why you would be on clexane I no clotting issues? You could do baby aspirin instead? The steroids aren't too expensive- the Dexa. One is good for quality. For Pred it's up to you- it's supposed to help the first 12 weeks...i think the summon drugs are most expensive. I'd try the dexa.and maybe Pred too but I don't you want thinners if you've had a clear test.
Yep Skyrim is very like Morrowind. I think the latest version overlaps. My son is now asking "why is Mummy a Vampire?" But hey, he's got a double geek gene!

Kris- that's exciting if EC is Friday. Will your other smallies into growing!! Don't envy the brutal tidying and clearing...


Cece- great to see you back Hun!! I'm interested in how Spain works out for you! And sorry for not understanding does that mean you transfer this month or is it a trial? Lots of positive vibes your way.im glad you had a good holiday top-up excellent plan!

Tootles- hope you've had good news on progress x

Bics- how I the wait going?

syd- hang in there. Hope all ok.

Hi everyone I have missed.

I've had up and down days, and trying to give this site a breather until I regroup. The hospital are testing remains to see if anything but I doubt it. My bleeding has stopped but now the hormone crash has kicked in so I well up at everything. I'm taking my mind off things by trying out a Marvel themed decoupage on my son's new chest of drawers. Sod work.
#every day has a new dawn
Xx


----------



## Tootles

Well what an anti climax this round has been. Off all those 18, only one made it to a blast and its grade D. They put it back in me plus another random one, just in case. Weirdly, this time they are keeping the remaining embryos going until day 6 just in case any develop and are good enough to freeze. I was told, categorically, last time that they won't do that. All a bit odd, but hey ho.  Have decided to be a misery bum for the rest of the day! Big fat humphhh.


----------



## Syd72

Hi lovely ladies.  Sorry for the radio silence, I was reading over the weekend but I was away in the Cotswolds having a lovely relaxed break with girlfriends so never got round to replying.

Tootles, gutted to hear only one made it to blast, I was all set to congratulate you on your bumper crop.  Do they know if they started to fall off before or after day 3 as I believe that can give an indication of whether eggs or sperm is the issue?  I know it's really annoying when people say it but you just never know, just because it's a grade D it doesn't mean it won't work, I've heard all sorts of stories of poor quality embyies turning into lovely healthy babies, everything crossed for you.

Lulu, I'm sorry the emotions are hitting hard, it's so bloody horrible.

Butterfly, my clinic gives everyone clexane and pred as standard, along with aspirin.  I gave up the aspirin two weeks ago because of spotting and did ask last week if I should give up the clexane.  They said no, not if I'm not bleeding heavily, because clexane helps to form a good placenta by keeping up a good blood flow - or words to that effect.  As with all things IVF, whilst that's the opinion of my clinic it probably isn't the opinion of lots of others, they all have their own methods, but thought it might give you some insight as to why they're suggesting it.  I also had pre-period spotting for years, about 15, before every single period.  No-one could ever tell me why it was happening.

Cece, so lovely to see you back but so sorry you've had such a crap time, taking yourselves off for a fab holiday sounds perfect, I do love my holidays.  Is this a new clinic for you or have you cycled with them before?  Sorry, can't see signatures whilst I'm in "reply" mode.

Hi to anyone I've missed.

Afm, nothing much to report still.  Spotting almost stopped over the weekend but is back today, light pink when I went to the loo around 3am (always seems to happen on my 3am toilet break, weird) and a bit reddy again just now.  Sorry, I realise all tmi but I'm so bloody fed up of being worried every single day.  I'm also in a REALLY  bad mood today, think I may be having a sugar crash after eating to much chocolate over the weekend to make up for missing out on all the lovely gin.  Scan tomorrow, terrified they're going to say the heart has stopped.  Sorry for whingeing.


----------



## Kris76

Lulu, completely understandable. Glad to hear the bleeding has stopped. 
Marvel themed decoupage sounds amazing! I would love to see that once it's done. Your little boy will love it. 

Toots, I'm sorry to hear. At least you got one to go back... and a random. You just never know. I'm not sure if this is even a thing. However, could the clinic not have adjusted your drugs so you don't produce as many follicles and concentrate on quality? 

My clinic will go to day 6. Not sure what the big deal is. Day 5, day 6, what's in it?  I hope they stick Toots. 

Syd, you are not whinging, don't ever apologise. Glad the bleeding stopped for a little bit. Surely that's a good sign?  The Cotswolds is my favourite place in the UK. I know, it's a shame we can't drink through the pregnancy. Sometimes it's needed. I wish you all the best with the scan. I hope all is well. 
Xx


----------



## CEce40

Hey Butterfly, no idea about those drugs, sorry. I'm a pretty basic pharmacy. Down reg, stimms, trigger, pus*y plugs, folic acid, that's my whole repertoire. I've got some new ones this time, no idea what they do, I just pop the pills and jab the needles like a good little girl. 

That's impressive Kris, I've never had any blood squirters. That's straight out of the Shining. You should get some big sympathy points with the other half for that one. 

Lulu, I'm not surprised you're up and down. It's all so hard. Do what you need to do, a good cry is never a bad thing. I may steal the marvel decoupage idea. Yes, the mock cycle is like a trial run to make sure I'm on the right dose of drugs etc so I can sync with the donor and we'll both be ready on time. 

Oh no, Tootles. That must be such a come down from the initial excitement. I'm going to try to sugar coat it, I'd be double bummed, BUT...... maybe the 2WW will be a bit easier on you now if you've got lower expectations. Plus if you've still got some going you may get another couple if they decide to get a wriggle on. Maybe this time they're just a bit bored, can you ask the clinic to whack on a power ballad? Surely the desire to air guitar must be inbred from day 1! Stick the telly on and watch trash all day, chocolate is calling. 

Syd, what a nightmare, the worry never stops. Hang in there, you should get some answers tomorrow and hopefully you an relax from there. Its a new clinic for me and the first time abroad, which bring its own complications with prescriptions, scans etc, but I'm developing some excellent organisational skills for my CV, so that's a plus!


----------



## pauli

Yes, finally warmer / sunnier weather! I love this time of the year when everything is turning green after the winter. 

Syd, fingers crossed for a good scan tomorrow!!!! Are you going back to the Birth Company in London? Thanks for the recommendation, I will used them if needed in the future. I have no experience, but have read a number of times that the light spotting/bleeding in early pregnancy is normal. And happens more often to IVF ladies. Are you taking any blood thinners (clexane or aspirin)? That will also contribute to spotting. Fingers crossed that it is nothing but I know it is such a worrying time xxx          

Tootles, so sorry to hear your update. But it ONLY takes one!!!! I have not come across a study which would show a correlation between grading of embryos and success rates. Often "ugly" embryos make babies and "pretty" embryos lead to nothing. Keep faith! Did the clinic offer any explanation as to why only one embryo made it to blastocyst (so far)? Have you used embryoscope for the cultivation of the embryos in a lab? Also cultivation until day 6 is not uncommon. Many clinics will do it, some embryos are slower to make the transition to blastocysts, so there might be some tomorrow ready for the freezer, fingers crossed! xx

Lulu, how is the painting going? I am sure you DS will love it ;-) 

Cece, good to hear from you!!! Holiday sounds fab. Tell us more about the cycle in Spain, not sure what you mean by a mock cycle. Hope you are feeling better. Wretched meds making us feel that way.  

Kris, wow, it seems a new cycle came round quickly for you! Fingers crossed that the smaller follicles will catch up. They usually do, and as you are on cetrotide they still have time until Friday ;-) Hope all goes well with the sale of your place. I admire you how much energy you can put into gardening and DIY. I would probably just use an excuse doing the stimms and put my feet up sitting in the sun ;-) 

Bics, fingers crossed for the PGS result, hopefully you'll have a few euploid embryos! Not long to wait. I have done it on 2 cycles and I remember the wait being excruciating. Hope you find enough distractions ;-) 

Butterfly, did you start a new cycle? Good luck! I had Clexane on one of the cycles, but only took if for 2 weeks as had BFN. I cannot remember exactly how expensive it was, but remember thinking that for 12 weeks it would be quite a bit of money. However I know some ladies get their GPs to prescribe it after they get BFP. If you never had a diagnosis indicating that you need Clexane, you could take a Aspirin instead. It is also a blood thinner, but less effective / less dosage. Some clinics ask all IVF ladies to take Aspirin/Clexane just to cover all scenarios up to the scan which shows heartbeat or up yo 12 weeks. As for steroids, they are not that expensive. But if you did not have any immune issues diagnosed, it seems a bit odd to take them for 12 weeks. Some clinics give the steroids to ladies for only few days around transfer up to 2 weeks. Let us know how you decided.  

Nothing new to report from my end. After the initial low betas, I did not get a chance to re-test. But managed to get a telephone consultation with a GP who wrote a referral to EPU for me, so going for a scan there on Thursday this week. Trying to be ready for the worst case scenarios, but hoping it is not an etopic pregnancy as suggested by my clinic. Other scenario - blighted ovum - could resolve itself, I would like to avoid any surgical intervention if possible.

Have a good evening ladies xx


----------



## Syd72

Kris, I'm sorry, I apparently only included you on my last update in my head...  Really good luck on Friday, it's great that some of those follies are trying to catch up, the trigger will give them a boost too.  

Pauli, lovely to hear from you.  I'm not going back to them just because I already had a scan booked elsewhere before I booked the "emergency" 7 week scan, since I've paid a deposit I'll stick with the other company.  Would happily have gone back to them otherwise.  Good luck for Thursday, hopefully you'll get some answers, praying for a little miracle for you.

Cece, I hope it goes well.  I've never had any issues cycling in the UK but did enjoy (if that's the right word) the clinic abroad more.

I'm on board with the Marvel decoupage, with a particular request for a life size Wolverine.  Or Thor. I don't mind which.


----------



## Tootles

Morning 

Butterfly - I've just dug out the nurture price list but Clexane isn't on it. I bought all my drugs from Asda this time and saved quite a bit so would suggest asking nurture (or call Stork who provide their drugs) for a price and then give any Asda pharmacy a ring to compare. I got mine from the Grantham Asda.  

Kris - good luck for Friday. I'm so with you - feeling like I've just about had enough of IVF! Nice work on all of the DIY. HOpe you get a buyer quickly. I'm feeling a bit like my clinic is almost one size fits all.  They vary the amount of medication, but I don't see them doing any of the extras that I read about. 

Syd - best of luck for your scan today. Will be thinking of you. Chocolate is no bad thing. Did you have a sniff of the gin? I've taken to having a whiff of other people's drinks! Gets a few odd looks but at least I feel more involved! I also insist on soft drinks being in a wine / champagne glass if I'm out.... with ice and a slice of course! Please whinge away. If ever there was a place for it, it's right here, and it does feel better to share and know that others totally get it. The worry of it all is exhausting and it's no surprise it results in a bad mood. 

CEce - you're so right. It's less of a drop to fall now. The look of utter sympathy on the nurses face when I was told it's a grade D said it all. She may as well have held up a massive sign saying "tough luck kiddo, it ain't gonna happen". Dam the embryologists and their lack of embryo enhancing singing. I'm sure a bit of Rick Astley would have done the trick. How are you getting on? Everything going smoothly I hope? No more side effects I hope.. or at least from just the one end if there are!

Pauli - thanks for the positivity. No explanation from the clinic. Just such a bummer. Sounds like your GP was good to get you a quick referral. Hope the scan doesn't show eptopic. Completely get not wanting medical intervention. Hopefully you will get answers. It's the not knowing that can be so all-consuming. 

AFM - the clinic called. Four made it to grade C and another to grade D. They won't freeze below a B so that's the end of that. I know it's totally unreasonable of me, I really do, but I just feel angry today. We gave the clinic 18 eggs and 14 fertilised, and the result is just pants. Even though I know it's not their fault, a bit of me can't help but question if there is something they could be doing better / differently. I'm sure it'll pass, but today I'm in a very childish sulk with a massive lower lip wobble. I'm going to work until lunch time and then mess about in the garden while the sun is out. Lots of love, from Tootles, aged 4 and a half X X


----------



## Syd72

Just a quickie to say all fine at the scan, I'm now measuring a day or two ahead.  Will come back and do personals later x


----------



## CEce40

Oh Pauli, you're going through the mill. Hope all goes well with the scan tomorrow. Even an ectopic might be able to resolve itself. When I had mine  there were 3 main options - natural, chemical or surgical. I opted for natural but ended up with surgery as it got too dangerous, but that's not always the case. Big hugs, the unknown can be scary, but you'll soon have some answers.

Tootles, babe, hulk smash as much as you want. Dig up shrubs, rip the heads off unsuspecting tulips, take a fork to your potato patch and kick footballs at your greenhouse. Your inner 4 year old needs to be indulged every once in a while. Maybe this is a good thing. Maybe this will give you the impetus you need to change clinics (if that's what's needed) and start to feel a bit more positive about your treatment again. And, you never know, those 2 little survivors may be stubborn buggers that will do anything to prove the clinic wrong. I'm cranking up the Rick in your honour. 

Syd, marvellous news. I'm thrilled for you.


----------



## Syd72

Thanks Cece.

Tootles, totally understand you being angry, all and any tantrums fully justified I think.  I hope you get a massive surprise but the way I always get through the tww is to start making a back-up plan.

Butterfly, I get clexane (and everything else) from Stork, clexane costs GBP 3.03 per injection.  There is a service charge for each delivery though which seems to be fairly high, ranges between GBP 35-65, can't quite work out how they do it.


----------



## tarapt

Sorry for gate crashing.  I just want to say huge congratulations to syd.  I hope it all works out this time for you.  Xxx


----------



## Bics76

Hello all,

I'm so sorry for the long silence but it's been really stressful here even without the ivf and god awful wait for our PGS results. This is just a quick one to say that we got one normal embryo (out of 6) so we'll hopefully move on to a frozen cycle soon.

I have read through and I am so very sorry for the horrible lows and sadness. Happy to see some rain the clouds though and some highs (Syd-lovely update, so happy to hear that). I will come back properly, I just wanted to say thank you all for thinking of my while I was waiting for the results xx


----------



## Bics76

ps, Kris, I have absolutely everything crossed for you. Hope collection goes really well today xxx


----------



## Bics76

pps, my first message above is incomprehensible! Sorry! I was trying to say that it's nice to have some sunshine with Syd's news through lots of sadness and very tough times on here at the moment (and hugs and love to everyone).  

Posting in the early hours is clearly not a good plan x


----------



## Syd72

Thanks bics, great that you’ve got a normal embryo, congratulations. 1-2 seems to be the norm.

Thanks tarapt  Hope you’re well x


----------



## miamiamo

syd - keep my toes and fingers crossed x


----------



## Tootles

Bics, huge congrats on the embryo. That's great news. X


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Pauli how did you go at the EPU? 

Syd, I'm so happy all is well on your end. Could they tell you what was causing the bleeding? You must be so relieved. It's such great news. 

Tootles how are you feeling? Are you on Instagram? I follow a fab account called IVF_explained, such a great account. An embryologist gives explanations and examples of cases...all anonymous of course. A recent post was about over stimulation and how how she/he feels that consultants can have a tendancy to over stimulate in order to get more eggs at the expense of quality. This embryologist feels that a shorter stims with less follicles can produce a better result and egg quality. Not trying to make you feel bad, just food for thought. I think it's definitely worth questioning your consultant.  However, as the other ladies have said. There have been lots of healthy babies born from less 'good looking' embryos. 

Lulu how are you feeling? How's the decoupage coming along? 

Bics, that's really great you got one normal embryo. We can realistically only expect 1 or 2 good ones in a batch. It's a good result. There is a great chance of this one working. My fingers and toes are crossed for you. 

AFM I had my EC on Friday. Managed to get 8 eggs, which is as much as I can expect and was very pleased with that. However, got a call this morning and only 3 have fertilised. I was crushed. Especially, since last round, I got 7 for 7 to day 5. I did everything the same both rounds, it's mental how you can get such different results. I'm currently booked in for a day 3 transfer, Monday. They will call me that morning if they all last and feel they can make it to day 5 then it will be Wednesday. I imagine at least 1 will arrest before Monday. I'm thinking if it has to be a day 3 transfer, I might not even bother. Any left can be frozen if good enough, or I'll instruct them to chance it to day 5. I figure if they can't last to day 5 in the lab then the embryos will not work if implanted early in me. Then I'll have another fresh round next month when I get back from Melbourne. This process can bring such highs and lows. It's exhausting. Sometimes I wonder if it's worth it. I'm currently at a low as I'm sure you've all gathered. I'm going to eat carbs tonight until I have to undo my pants. 

I hope everyone else is doing well and enjoying the weather before it goes crap again this week. 

Xx


----------



## Syd72

Kris, just a quickie to say in 3 rounds of ivf the only one that has stuck is a day 3 transfer so don’t rule it out x


----------



## Tootles

Hi Kris
Thanks for the heads up on the Instagram account. I'm not on Instagram but will work out how to get on and have a read. I defo think that the role of the embryologists is underplayed. It can't be as simple as just watching and waiting surely? The quality of the lab and the skill involved must make a difference. 

I also realised that this time they actually stimmed me for 3 days less than the first two times. I'm now asking myself if this was too short, as 4 of the embryos that went to day 6 were grade C blasts. Maybe if I'd had those extra few days, they would have made it to day 5 as grade Cs. That would have meant putting two grade Cs back in rather than a D and a random. I'm 99% sure that this hasn't worked but am holding on to the 1% chance that the random embryo could come good. However, feeling very menstrual and not at all like the first two rounds. 

8 eggs is great. I know how it feels when it doesn't follow through and I'm really sorry you're going through it too coz it just sucks. I wonder if you are in today for transfer or if any are looking good for day 5. It's just so flipping difficult to accept when you do the same as before, and the results can be so different. I don't blame you one bit for the carb overload. I'd so exactly the same! Im really hoping you'll reply and say it's Wednesday, but if it is today, then so be it.  There is always a chance and I think they are better off in you than in the false environment of the lab. 

How is everyone else getting on? Hope all is well. I'm meant to be working from home but just got zero motivation today.  Humph.


----------



## Kris76

Hi Ladies

Thanks Syd, it's encouraging. 

It really is an informative account Toots.  I agree and think the embryologists are unsung heroes. I like to think it is not just a matter of watching and waiting. 

It is so hard to say if it had an impact.  I like to think they thought you were ready.  You should definitely ask that question of your consultant.  You have a right to know. Who knows, as waiting a few more days may have compromised other follicles.  I understand how you are feeling, there is always hope...until there isn't.  You still have a bit more of a wait to know for sure. 

It sucks very much.  I couldn't sleep last night and got up at 6am.  Thank goodness the embryologist called this morning to say all 3 are coming along and are of top grading...so far.  Having said that, I place no emphasis on grading.  I don't ask them for a grade, if they tell me, they tell me, otherwise I don't know. I think it produces false highs and lows.  A good looking embryo doesn't guarantee anything. So they are going to push it to blast and I transfer on Wednesday.  How many out of the 3 I will have left by Wednesday is anybody's guess.  I'm really hoping for 2.  I like to transfer 2 to help my chances.  I'm still considering freezing what is left and going for another fresh round. I feel like I should be collecting as many embryos now while I can.  If I am lucky enough and it does work, I don't want to be collecting again at 43 where I won't have a hope in hell with my own eggs. It's so stressful.  Feel rather down today, even though I know I should be happy they can go to blast.  It is everything overall that depresses me, so draining.  

I too am working from home Toots but have managed to send 2 emails and watch the Sopranos while eating digestives in my pants. 

Hello to everyone else. xx


----------



## pauli

Hello Ladies, 
Thanks for your recommendations and advice. I had a scan on Thursday and it was an empty sack unfortunately. I kind of expected it due to low initial betas & not doubling, but had a tiniest of hope that it could still be ok. I had another 2 bood tests as they could not rule out the etopic pregnancy. I started a period (or does is actually qualify as a miscarriage?) on Saturday afternoon, so hoping that will be it and I will not need any further medication or D&C. (I was about 7 weeks). 

The hospital called this morning with the blood test result from Saturday and Dr is still worried it could be etopic (I had 2 blasts transferred and only one sack was seen on the scan). 

We are actually away (holiday was booked months ago), hospital did not want me to travel but I could not stay sitting at home and wait for the bad news. I am glad we went as being away helps me cope, I also started with gentle exercises, short jogs, walks...plus a lot of rest & good food ;-) DH is on the bike every day! I managed to get a blood test in a local hospital this morning, so just hoping the HCG levels have now dropped and Dr will rule out the etopic ... 

Emotionally I am doing ok so far (had a good cry after the scan), maybe reality will kick in when we get back... or maybe I just need to focus on plan B which would be DE. Not sure if it makes sense to keep trying with OE: 2 cycles with day 3 transfers were both BFN, then 2 cycles with PGS with no euploid embryos and therefore no transfer, and now the last cycle where I had two great looking blasts transferred on day 5 which resulted in blighted ovum. Most common reasons for an empty sack are chromosomal abnormalities of the embryo (according to Dr Google). 

I guess our last cycle was the most successful one, the first time ever I had an AA blast and also BFP. Should it be an encouragement to try more with OE or should I learn from this that there is no point trying with OE anymore?

I asked my clinic in CZ for a follow up Skype chat, but no answer yet...  

Syd, hope all is well. How many weeks are you now? How are your symptoms? 

Kris, sorry to hear about the fertilization rate. I know the feeling, you follow the same protocol but the result is different, there is no logic! I agree with Tootles about the importance of a good / skilled embryologist. Did you do ICSI or IVF? Did you use embryoscope? 

In the USA before you start the cycle, you can have a chat with the embryologist at the clinic and ask about the lab, the stats, the technology they use... we were doing PGS so I wanted to know stats around the damage to the embryo through the biopsy, risks of freezing and thawing the embryos. All clinics should be able to provide these stats. As an example: in the US they told us that the chance that embryo not surviving the thawing were less than 1% due to the advanced technology they use for freezing and thawing.  Our CZ clinic said that 10% of the embryos will not survive! I guess that was the moment I decided that frozen transfer there was not an option ;-) 

Tootles, I am sorry you do not seem to think it worked. When is the official OTD? Do you have a plan B already? 

Cece, how are you doing? Do you have an idea of your transfer date? Did you do any special 'preparation' / workshop to accept the idea of DE? Hope your body is tolerating the drugs better...      

Lulu, how are you coping? Painting came out ok? ;-) 

Bics, congrats on the euploid embryo! Are you planning the FET already? 

Have a good week everyone xx


----------



## pauli

Kris, just saw your update, that's excellent news! I wanted to say that on our last cycle Dr collected only 4 eggs from 10 follicles! I was so disappointed but 2 out 4 made it to blasts (one arrested around day 3 and another one around day 4). I believed the embryoscope made the difference. So you have a very good change to have at least 2 blasts on day 5, good luck!!!! xxx


----------



## Tootles

Pauli - sounds like you're dealing with this so well. Good food and gentle exercise is great. I hope that you get some news to confirm its not eptopic. Some relaxing time is definately in order to think about your next move. It's never easy is it? You are getting eggs, which is positive. It's just going through all this that's so flipping tough. Syds tip of making a plan B has really helped me. How do you feel about DE? My other half can't get his head around it, and I'm a bit unsure as never thought it would be a potential route for us. I'm actually starting to allow myself to think that kids just might not happen for us, and it doesn't feel as cripplingly painful anymore. Sending you a big hug xx 

Kris - I flipping love that you ate digestives in your pants while sending emails! You sound like my kind of colleague! I had a conference call with three solicitors and a fund manager...in my Winnie the Pooh nightie...that I've had since the age of 11. It's got St Michael on the label. 

So pleased to read that it's Wednesday. Every day is a step forwards. You are so right about it being draining. The constant thinking about it every step of the way is both annoying and exhausting, and then trying not to be too excited just in case anything goes wrong. It's impossible not to feel a bit blue. I hope you have a really chilled evening, and get a good nights sleep. Keep us posted, willing for everything to go well for you xx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Syd - So lovely to hear good news, how many weeks are you now? Has the bleeding stopped? I've got everything crossed for you x

Kris - I know just how you feel, my last cycle I only got 3 fertilized eggs from the 7 collected and was gutted. All 3 made it to day 5 though and it sounds like yours are doing really well. Wishing you all the luck in the world for Wednesday x

Tootles - Sorry to read about the results of your cycle, but as others have said often the grading doesn't seem to mean that much and you really do never know in this game. I was puzzled to read that you were told Nurture would only freeze B and above, I was told A to C could be frozen! I don't understand how they tell people different things. 

Bic - Fab news about your good embie, when will you do the FET? 

Pauli - So sorry for what you are going through, I hope that your test shows that your levels have dropped and no etopic. Also that everything passes naturally for you and you don't need a D & C xx

Thank you all so much for the drugs advice. I have decided to go for both the steroids as they are relatively low cost and tablets not injections so I can handle that. I'm not going for the clexane as I don't really think it will help as I know I don't have clotting issues. If I did get a BFP I would think I could always ask my consultant about it anyway and get it via the NHS if she thinks it would help. I've been to ASDA today and got a price for my drugs which it £250 less than Stork so that will save us a bit and makes the steroids more affordable. Just waiting to start down regging on the 5th May now.

Love and hugs to all


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Pauli I am so sorry to hear.  Yes, you are coping very well with it. I really hope it is not etopic and you can pass it naturally.  I agree with your decision about taking the holiday.  It sounds like it has done you both a world of good.  I know, it's tricky to make the decision to keep trying, stop or go for plan b. You had a good last round.  Perhaps one more if you have it in you and then draw a line under it?  I quite like how you say in the US you can speak to the embryologist first and ask about stats and techniques etc.  I think that is a smart thing to do. 
I just do IVF, (my OH has 317m sperm per ml) and no embryoscope or testing, discouraged by my consultant.  I hope all works out for you.  

Toots, you made me scream out laughing.  I can just picture you in your winnie the pooh nightie, conference calling.  I love it.  Plus, amazing you still fit in it. I have to be careful when my OH half works from home as it's not often Ill put trousers on when I'm at home.  I forget that he is always on conference calls, including video and I just waltz in the room to ask him something.  He has had to put his hand over the camera a few times.  How are you feeling these days?  Still no sign of AF which is good.  
Yes, we'll see what I am left with tomorrow.  I still want to freeze and go another round but my consultant is telling me to worry about baby no. 1 before no. 2.  Maybe, but he's not the one that will have to use donor eggs in a year's time...if this works. Not that I am against it, I think it is absolutely wonderful.  I just want to give myself the best chance I have and I don't think the clinics really care about that.  My consultant couldn't give a toss if I have to use DE or not for no. 2.  Doesn't effect them, effects us. 

Hi Butterfly, glad to hear you are well.  Well done on the drug savings.  I am too lazy to go to ASDA, we don't have a car. I really should. I hope the steroids work.  Not too long before you can start.  Enjoy this time while you can. 

I'm so tired, haven't been sleeping very well.  I tend to look for a sugar hit when I'm tired.  I pulled a frozen rocky road piece out of the freezer and almost broke a tooth trying to bite into it as I was too impatient to wait for it to defrost. 

Lulu, hope you are recovering emotionally.  

Syd, how are you feeling?  I'm so happy you are still going strong.  You'll be at the 12 week mark before you know it.  I can't wait until you do. 

Love to everyone else. 

xx


----------



## teppar

Hi Ladies. I'm 41, single and about to start my first IVF cycle with donor sperm in Greece in just a few days. I'm excited, a little nervous, but mostly excited. Sleep has been super hard these last few weeks....I've never been this excited to see the date of my period starting approaching....hee hee

Any advice for a first time cycler? I'm going to Athens totally on my own for egg collection and fresh transfer so advice from the experienced masses would be very much appreciated. Things I should bring/have, things I should eat or do, things I shouldn't do, things I should expect....every bit of info is appreciated.


----------



## Kris76

Hello and welcome teppar.  Very exciting times for you.  Good for you for going it alone.  I would do exactly the same.  

Syd, who is on this thread, is best placed to answer you.  As she has been cycling in Athens, and is currently pregnant!  All I can say is that it is quite the emotional rollercoaster, lots of highs and lows.  Im sure we all have a different opinion on what to do and not to do.  However, I really don't' think what you put in your mouth or your lifestyle has an impact on the outcome.  It's either going to work or it's not. Hopefully, in your case it does. 

Good luck!


----------



## Bics76

Hi everyone,

I've continued to be to be totally rubbish at replying and updating! So sorry. It has been full on here. 

I'll come back properly today but wanted to wish you luck for today Kris. 

Hugs to all x


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Kris - Just hoping that everything went well with ET today. 

Sending love   xx


----------



## teppar

Thanks for the welcome Kris76. I think I've realised as the date gets closer I am compelled to research more and more about other's experiences and then regret the knowledge....I think flying a bit blind and taking whatever happens as it happens is probably the healthiest. Afterall we each have different experiences, coping mechanisms and outcomes.

I would like tipe for things like bring a hot water bottle and loose clothes. Practical stuff that I may not know about not having gone through it before. Particularly as I will be on my own and in a country I haven't travelled to before. I've travelled a whole lot around the world, just somehow haven't made it to Greece yet  Anyway if anyone has some practical tips to offer that would be wonderful.


----------



## Protea123

Dear Teppar and Syd72

Thank you for sharing your journeys. I have had my 3rd EC today and dissappointed to get only 1 mature egg from 7-8 follicles😰 I have no faith of getting a transferable embryo unfortunately. 

I am thinking of going to Serum and would like to understand the process better And also share prep tips.
Teppar, how did you have monitoring of stimulation in the UK?

Thanks for listening....


----------



## Syd72

Thanks mia.

Kris, loving the sitting around in pants and eating biscuits, how are your embyies getting on?  My body is very confused by timezones at the mo, when will transfer be for you?

Pauli I'm really sorry you still don't have a conclusive answer although I'm hoping you do by now.  I thing with regards to DE vs OE it has to be when you're ready - if you can afford to keep trying OE and you still feel that's what you want to do you should carry on, don't move on to DE before you're ready.  For me it was a very easy decision to move to DE, I didn't feel any strong desire to keep going with OE.  At the end of the day it is a numbers game and the chances are you will be successful if you do enough rounds, obviously that's not always the case, it just depends on your capacity to keep going.  I hope you're managing to enjoy your holiday.

Tootles, loving the image of you doing a conf call in your Winnie the Pooh nightie, I'd forgotten all about "St Michael".  My conf calls tend to be 9 or 10pm as I'm usually connecting with the US, frequently also done in my nightie and whilst drinking a large glass of wine.

Butterfly, glad you're all set, now long to go now til you start down regging!

Teppar, welcome.  I can't help much regarding oe cycles I'm afraid as I've only done de with Serum.  I know from meeting up with other ladies out there that you'll be told to eat something like 8 eggs per day whilst you're cycling so I hope you like eggs!  People recommend lots of different things to help thicken lining, beetroot juice seems to have worked for me.  There's a fantastic vegetarian cafe in Athens called Avocado and they do a lovely beetroot and pineapple juice.  I've cycled twice at Serum and been out twice for hystos, always on my own, it's very very easy.  I don't know if you're on the Serum ******** page but there are always women posting that they're in Athens cycling if anyone wants to meet up - I've met some lovely ladies there and it's great to chat to people that understand what you're going through.  If you're not on the ** page you could always mention that you'll be there on the Serum cycle post in here and see if anyone is out there at the same time.  Getting around in Athens is very easy, I think uber has just stopped there but I use a great app called taxi beat, works the same way as uber so you can order your cab using the app but you pay in cash to the driver.  Lots of the ladies use the metro system and say it's very easy although I haven't tried it.  Hot water bottle could be useful if you're having lining issues but shouldn't be used after transfer.  I don't think there's any particular need for loose clothes although my last own egg cycle was so long ago I can't really remember.  If I think of anything else I'll let you know.  It really is very easy there and the clinic are just wonderful, everyone is so friendly and helpful.  Best of luck!

Protea, really sorry to hear about your cycle, how is your embyie doing?  Again, I can't really help with the oe cycle at Serum other than I believe you need to be out there from around day 6 until transfer.

Thanks everyone for asking how I am, all good.  Very jet lagged, landed back in Hong Kong last night, only got a couple of hours sleep and then had a 7.30am breakfast meeting.  Taking it easy the rest of the day.  Still no symptoms other than very tired, currently 9 1/2 weeks.  My next scan and nipt test will be at 11 weeks, on the one hand it doesn't feel too far away but on the other hand it's hard to keep trusting everything is still ok when I've read about so many people that have had good scans at 8 weeks and then mmc by the time they get to 12 weeks...

Hi to anyone I've missed.


----------



## Kris76

Hi Ladies


Teppar, i see I was in a bit of a strop when I replied to you, sorry.  As we said there are lots of opinions on what to eat.  However, I just try and eat cleanly...obviously, I'm not perfect.  There's no need for a hot water bottle, there's no pain after collection.  The hospital advises to wear loose clothing for egg collection, however, there is no need.  I just wear my jeans and it's fine.  As long as you are comfortable.  The EC is pretty easy physically, the general is light, so recovery is quick. There is not a lot else to say about it.  The worst bit is the wait to see how many eggs were collected, the next worse bit is waiting to see how many fertilised.  Followed by the awful bit of waiting to see if any of them make it to blast.  For me, everything else in comparison is easy. There is nothing to transfer either, it's done in about 15 minutes. 

Hi Protea, I am sorry to hear you only manage to get one egg.  It can be so disappointing. You never know, there is every chance it will make it.  I got one egg on my first cycle and it survived to transfer. We have to hang on to all hope even when it seems there is none.  My fingers are crossed for you. 

Syd, so happy to hear you are still going strong.  You have been doing a lot of travelling of late, I can imagine how exhausted you must be.  I feel very good about this one, but of course I understand your reserve.  It's hard to let go and relax and feel you are in the safe zone. Yes, I'm sur its a tough wait between scans.  I have every faith.

Thanks Butterfly.  I transferred two yesterday.  I threw the Dr and embryologist as I went in saying I didn't think I wanted to transfer...I don't think they have ever had that before. I explained at my age I wanted to bank as many as possible.  After much discussion...I had 3 fertilise and 3 made it to blast, I decided to transfer and not risk the three (as they may not survive the thaw being BB and BC grades).  The third one was a BC, they recommended that I don't freeze it, they don't normally freeze anything with a C because of the low chance of thawing survival.  I told them to anyway.  I couldn't bear the thought of discarding an embryo that might survive and might work.  They don't know for sure.  We thought it was worth the risk.  There is no expectation with it but will be a bonus if it makes it. 

That's where I'm at.  No motivation to do any work, so I went and got my eyebrows done today.  I may now be very behind in my work but my brows look great. I fly to Melbourne on Sunday for 3 weeks.  Still makes me worried if I should be taking such a long haul flight at this stage.  I don't know if the pressure has any impact.  

I hope everyone else at their stages of cycling is surviving. 

xx


----------



## teppar

Hi Ladies

Protea123 I don't live in the UK 

Kris76  I didn't feel like you were in a strop at all!! Thanks for making the process much less daunting sounding. I have found myself watching youtube vlogs of people's experiences and I find it makes me worry more than anything else. And hence why I end up reaching out here. Its helpful to have experienced people tell me what's ahead.

Syd72...8 eggs per day?!?! Seriously?? I've heard the beetroot, pineapple, brazil nuts....but 8 eggs?! What's the thinking behind that?  Thank you for all your advice. I'm not cycling with Serum or any of the clinics that come up over and over here. I have had a recommendation to a private doctor from several Greek embryologists which makes it a little harder to connect with others in town at the same time. I did post on the Serum board but haven't had any luck connecting with anyone. I'm pretty good on my own so I'm not too worried anyway.


----------



## Syd72

Kris, congrats on being pupo!  Most clinics say no issue with long flights after transfer.  Sounds like a good decision re transferring/freezing and yay for lovely eyebrows!

Sorry teppar, I obviously misunderstood, I thought you were cycling with Serum.  The eggs thing is about high protein.


----------



## Protea123

Hello Ladies

Thank you for the positive energy Kris76 and Syd72. Unfortunately no surviving embryo with this cycle. My 3rd failure has left me quite deflated. And I find myself going back to think of all the reasons why it went wrong- was it too stressful on my ovaries to do 3 back to back cycles? My consultant says there is no difference, but I can't help but wonder. Did something go wrong with the full absorption of my HCG trigger injection? - I took 15000IU of Gonasi and was told to mix 3 vials with one water of syringe by the nurse. Although in my previous cycles I mixed 3 vials separately.....Or is it just that my eggs are not good enough. 

I am now thinking of cycling with Serum. Does anyone know if they are HFEA approved ? I need them to be for my UK clinic to be able to transfer my donor sperm. Would love to hear from anyone who has experienced with doing OE cycle at Serum.....

Syd72 - Congratulations on being pregnant!!!😍🌺✨💫 Apparently there is a better IVF outcome in women that are well enough to fly! So it's all looking good for you!

Kris76 - Good luck with your recent transfer, sending you oodles of  positive energy🌺🍀✨💫

Teppar - All the best with your cycle in Greece😊

Bye for now Xx


----------



## Kris76

Hi Protea, I'm so sorry to hear that. It's very disappointing.  We completely understand how you feel.  However, I don't think it's anything you did, or could've done differently.  I know we all go over it in our heads and think it is something we could have controlled but we can't.  Which for me is very frustrating.  I believe at the end of the day it comes down to eggs.  It doesn't mean that you don't have any good ones left, you just may need to do repeated rounds to find it.  It's a numbers game.  I'm in the same situation. 

Syd cycled with Serum, as you can see, she has so far been successful using a DE.  They have a good reputation.  I am not sure, but you can always contact HFEA and ask. 

Thanks, however, not really feeling it for this round. 

Be good to yourself and don't beat yourself up, there is nothing else you could have done to change the outcome. Lots of love. xx


----------



## Syd72

Protea as far as I’m aware **** is a UK government thing, they’re not involved in overseas clinics. I think people have transferred sperm to Serum from the UK although it’s expensive.


----------



## Protea123

Thank you Kris76 for your kind and re-assuring words. I feel better everyday and look forward to my next IVF cycle, although I do believe the 2-3 cycle break will do me good. 

Thanks Kris & Syd for info on Serum. I plan to speak to them soon. 

Sending all the ladies on here lots of love, sunshine  and baby dust 💖✨💫!!!

Protea Xx


----------



## Pinksnow

Hi Ladies, I hope you don't mind me jumping on your thread.
I'm 39 & 2 months so seems most appropriate thread for me.
Just had BFN on first IVF/ICSI & now prepping  for next cycle.  I'm planning on starting on Ubiquinol  but not sure what dose is appropriate…can anyone help me please?? I would really appreciate any advice. xx


----------



## Kris76

HI Pinksnow

Welcome! I am sorry to hear about your BFN.  It is so disappointing. Great, that you are getting right back in it. My consultant told me how much I should be taking, which was 600mg, 300 in the morning and 300 in the evening.  However, we are all different and I would recommend that you ask your consultant what dose is best for you.  As that is quite a lot and costs a fortune. Best of luck with it all. 

How is everyone else?
Syd, how are you coming along?
Toots, I hope you are coping your way?
Butterfly, I best your excited to start again in a few days?
Lulu, I hope you are feeling a little more normal again?  How is the decoupage coming on?
Bics, have you transferred as yet?
Pauli, I hope you are looking after yourself.

AFM, I'm back in Melbourne after my transfer.  I'm jetlagged and want to drink all the coffee...its so good here but unfortunately, I can't.  I might sneak a couple in though.  I'm just hoping this one sticks.  However, I am massively paranoid and keep thinking my period has come and Ive spent all day running to the loo every ten minutes to check. 

Hope everyone else is well.

xx


----------



## Pinksnow

Hi Kris, thanks so much for the advice & the welcome to the thread, it's very much appreciated. Wishing you & all the other ladies all the luck in the world for BFP's very soon xx


----------



## pauli

Warm welcome to the new ladies! 

Pinksow - I took only 300mg Ubiquinol for about 3 months leading up to IVF cycle. Once I started the stimms, I doubled up the dose to 600mg a day. But I did not check the dose with Dr though. 

Teppar, hope your cycle goes well in Greece. Sorry I cannot comment on Greece as only traveled there for holiday, but many ladies seem to like the clinics there, I have read here on FF some very positive comments. When do you start / travel? 

Protea, have you decided about the next steps? Sorry to hear about your cycle.  

Kris, I hope you are enjoying your trip in AUS. I would not worry about a cup of coffee a day ;-) I think it was a good decision to transfer and I really hope it will work for you. When is your OTD? Will you do the bloods while you are out there? Fingers crossed xx

Syd, hope all is going well and you will get more reassurance at your next scan. But I know how you worry about things. Is work providing enough distraction? 

Tootles, hope you are doing well. Not sure when was your OTD, sending lots of baby dust xx 

Cece, do you have a date for your transfer? Hope all is going according to the plan! Do share some of your experiences, really keen to hear how it works with DE as thinking about it a lot at the moment.  

Butterfly, not long before your start your cycle. Glad you worked out the drugs. I use only ASDA as they seem to be the only pharmacy to accept the foreign prescription. Although it is quite a trip to get there, I am grateful. Hope your cycle will be a success xx  

Lulu, hope you are doing ok and planning the next steps xx

AFM: Thank you everyone for your kind words. It seems that my body knew what to do with a non-viable pregnancy. I did not need any medication or D&C. Only needed a few more blood test to rule out the etopic (2nd transferred embryo), but the last test on Monday finally showed HCG at 25, so all is fine now. Still not sure what to do next, weather to try again with OE or move straight to DE. Only if I had a crystal ball to be able to see the future ;-))  

Have a good evening everyone xx


----------



## Syd72

Welcome pinksnow and good luck with the next cycle, I think I took 600 per day when I was still trying own eggs.

I'm good Kris, just counting down to the scan really.  I hear you on the coffee - I'm still having one a day.  I stopped it on all my natural pregnancies but don't seem to have been able to this time, they say you can have up to 3 a day I think so one definitely isn't going to hurt   Have a lovely time in Melbourne, how's your gran?

Thanks Pauli, work isn't that much of a distraction sadly but I'm getting there.  I'm glad everything happened naturally in the end and your hcg is getting low.  It's a really tough one, to me 42 is young enough to still try own eggs but maybe that's because I'm an old bird   If you can afford another round of oe and still afford de later if necessary, I would probably give it another go.  I can't remember which clinic you're with or how you find them but might it be worth trying another one?  Not because it would be a better clinic necessarily but maybe you just need a different approach?  Good luck and keep us posted.

Hi to everyone else x


----------



## Kris76

Well that's it for me.  I got my period yesterday and a test confirmed it.  Another failed round.  I'm ****ing crushed.  I have no idea how much more of this I can take.  I just don't see how I will ever have my own children.


----------



## Kris76

The site changed my swear word to loving!


----------



## CEce40

Kris this is terrible news, you must be crushed. I'm so sorry. Take some time, be kind to yourself.  

Welcome Pinksnow, Protea123 and Tepper. 

No definite date for transfer yet Pauli. I've completed my mock cycle (where they test the drugs and get me in sync with the donor) and now on the rel one. The donor has started her drugs and we both have scans around the 9th so will have a better idea of timing then. They are currently estimating between 13th and 27th May, so all systems go at the moment. For me the decision to move to donor eggs wasn't too hard. After my 4th attempt with OE failed I hit a very dark place and knew I couldn't go through it anymore. Physically and emotionally I was completely done. I'm now feeling so much more positive than any other cycle. For the first time the odds are in our favour (60% chance of success instead of 10% with OE) and the pressure is off - if this fails it's not down to me. As much as we know there's nothing we can do to change our bodies etc, there's still a huge amount of guilt mixed up in the emotions of IVF (for me anyway), so DE has been a huge relief from that. I'm actually proud to be doing DE now. I got to the point were I was quite angry about the silence of infertility and the impact it has. I'm proud to be flying the flag for the blended family and to be a bit more out and proud about how difficult things can be and that 'family' can come in all shapes and sizes. If this works I'm sure there will be wobbles along the way, but it definitely feels the right decision for us at the moment. The only advice I can give you is that you'll know when it's right and only you and your partner can make that decision. Good luck with everything x

Tootles, how are you getting on? 

Syd, hope all still progressing nicely for you.


----------



## Pinksnow

Thank you all for such a warm welcome to the thread, your kindness and advice has been a godsend to me right now.

Kris, I am so sorry to hear your sad news.  This is cruelty at it worst.  Take care hunni xx

Cece you're absolutely right, fertility is still very hush hush! Madness really.  Amazing that you are using DE, never knew how much the odds raised for success! Good luck to you.

Sending positive vibes to you lovely ladies 💖


----------



## Tootles

Hi lovely ladies
Kris - I'm so sorry. What a complete bummer. There are no words. I hope you get through this quickly and come out stronger X

Cece - love your description of a blended family and your honesty is utterly refreshing. You're so right, infertility is like a dark secret sometimes, and the guilt... it's like when Bryan Adams was number one for a decade. Eventually he got knocked off the top spot, but you still hear that flipping song on the radio just to remind you! I feel strong one minute after giving myself a good talking to, and then someone at work will announce a pregnancy or bring in a baby and I'm back to square one.  I'm soooo rooting for you on this cycle. I hope it's smooth, calm and that you actually enjoy it. Positivity, measure and a pinch of good old fashioned luck X 

Syd - lovely to read all is going well for you and the bump. Love reading your updates. Glad you're slipping in a coffee. I've not had caffeine for 18 months and it's made noooo difference. I'm tempted to bathe in Nescafé just to stick two fingers up to flipping fertility diets! Hope the next scan shows you lots x 

Pauli - glad things happened naturally for you. I'm at the same place . What to do next? If you find that crystal ball please will you kick it Nottingham way so I can have a go?

AFM - third time unlucky. First Bfn cycle. It was expected so no big come down.  I doubt very much that we will go back to Nurture which is a bit sad. Combination of not feeling comfortable with the embryology side of things and also not having just one doctor make decisions during a cycle. I can't see how random doctors, not knowing  your history, can be a good thing. So thinking that if we do go again, maybe Care or perhaps the Lister or ARGC... or maybe just not bothering again and trying naturally for a bit.

  I defo need to take a few weeks off from it though. I'm chuffed to be able to get on a diet and lose some of the chub I've built up from avocados and full fat milk!  Doing that thing of convincing myself I'm sooo over it, I don't really need kids, it wasn't meant to be, we'll be able to go on holiday whenever we like, we'll have more disposable income, we won't be woken up at all hours... we won't have to break the news about Santa, I won't have to buy gorgeous little baby shoes, my folks won't get to be grandparents, no school plays, no baby cuddles..... it beeping well sucks!!


----------



## CEce40

Tootles that sucks. so sorry for you babe x

God, wouldn't a crystal ball be the shizzle. The uncertainty is such a  never knowing whether that 'one more go' will be the lucky one. After our 3rd cycle we played Baby Top Trumps and ranked all family options (including no kids) in order of preference. Now its just a question of working our way through the deck. The crazy cat couple is the dud in our pack, as long as we don't end up smelling of urine wheeling those alien looking cats around in prams we'll have done okay.

The Bryan Adams guilt I can handle, but the Wet Wet Wet variety, now that's the bugger that grinds you down. Love is All Around? hmmm, maybe if it hadn't been around so much I may not be in this mess. There are some tropical fruity tales from my past that could come back to haunt me in a crazytown moment!

I so want to ditch the chub. I've been a slave to the flab my whole life and I'm massively affected by hormones. I was a little barrel at school. Forget puppy fat, I had a giant doberman down my jumper! I get so bloated with the drugs and can't go to the gym as the headaches get too bad. I've had to hand my body over to baby making. I'm a whale, I'll beat my kid up about it later.

Has anyone heard of Fertility Fest? it's a week long event starting tomorrow in London. Its an art/awareness raising event and has plays, book launches, talks etc about all things fertility and the struggles we all go through. (no clinics, no sales) https://www.fertilityfest.com/ check it out, it looks really good. The fight club looks great, some really interesting topics being discussed.


----------



## Syd72

Morning all.

Kris, I'm so so sorry.  Nothing "loving" about it!  I can't remember which clinic you're with but wonder if it's worth trying a different one?  Just to change things up a bit.  Or do you still have some frozen embies?  I've a feeling you might.

Cece, good luck for the scan tomorrow.  I've said it before but I'm totally with you in that it was an easy decision for me to move to de.  It's not for everyone and I completely understand that but for me, no issue at all.  I can't imagine I would feel any differently now if I was pg with own eggs except I would be a lot more worried about the nipt blood test results whereas now I feel quite relaxed about them.  I think someone I know from Serum is going to Fertility Fest, is it in London?

Tootles, your last paragraph nearly made me cry, this whole thing is so bloody hard.  I'm also suffering with the chub, I was a skinny teenager but been slightly battling the bulge since I hit my 30s.  The last few years with a combination of loads of travel, very little exercise, crap food, miscarriages, misery eating and fertility drugs have taken their toll, I'm really quite overweight now.

Had my 11 week scan and blood test this morning, scan all good, measuring a day behind again, have to wait a week for blood test results.

Hi pinksnow, pauli, protea and everyone else x


----------



## Protea123

Hello Ladies

Dear Kris
My heart breaks for you 😔 🤗 I am so sorry? I  felt the same after my recent failure- utterly crushed and hopeless. I just needed a break from it all, and last week immersed myself in my week-long Stats course, I also threw my fertility diet out the window and just stopped thinking about fertility for the week. I think it did me the world of good to clear my head and get me out of that place. 
We just need to plough on, it will happen, maybe not in a way we originally plan, but somehow....

Tootles, Sorry to hear of your loss😔 🤗 Gr8 u are taking a break to re-fresh. 
Cece, thanks for fertilityfest link - I will check it out.
Pauli, so  sorry to hear of your experience 😔 🤗 - it must be devastating to lose a pregnancy after being BFP. 
I definitely need a break from the hormones so going to have  atleast a 3 cycle break. I start a new job at the end of the month, that involves relocation to Hertfordshire for during the week, and back to London on the weekends. That should keep me busy and distracted. 
In the meanwhile I am looking at overseas clinics, where I can try once more with OE, before going onto DE, if that does  not  work. But lots to think about....

Does anyone know if there is a link to choosing best international clinic, on here?

Syd, so pleased for  you🤗 Sending you lots of positive energy ✨💫

And baby dust to us all ✨💫🍀💖

Protea Xxx


----------



## Bics76

Hello all,

Ive been beyond rubbish, but I've been reading through and am going to try to catch up now. 

Oh Kris, I am so terribly sorry. It was heartbreaking to read your message. Sending you love and light and comfort. Not sure if you're still in Oz, but I hope it's been some comfort being with family. 

Tootles, I'm so sorry lovely. Your message really choked me. This is such a hard road.  I hope you're ok (stupid thing to say as you're clearly not, but hope you know what I mean and that your Winnie the Pooh nightie is keeping you cosy. 

Syd, I love reading your updates. They give me hope and make smile for you. Nearly 12 weeks now x 

Butterfly, how is the down regging going??

Pauli, I'm glad it wasn't an ectopic but I really am sorry. I hope you managed to enjoy your holiday as best you could. It sounds like it was exactly what you and your DH needed. 

Hi Teppar! Hope you're all rested after Greece. I guess you must be in the waiting phase now? Hope it's going ok. 

On the food front (sorry know you asked this a while ago now), I've always done low carb, as I've read the research about it. My consultant this time though has asked me to have a high fibre diet ahead of ET including a big bowl of All Bran every day. He said it was about keeping the gut healthy/clearing out bad gut bacteria (or something like that). I then read about fibre helping deal with/clear out oestrogen dominance so I wonder if it's linked to that. Likewise, he has asked that I use mouthwash twice a day and floss too as apparently there's some research about mouth bacteria too. It all seems to be connected to bacteria and the affect it can possibly have on embryos. Anyone else heard about any of this, especially the high fibre bit? I can't find much about it at all. I'm at the stage now where I'm totally confused and pretty skeptical about what does and doesn't help, so who know if this latest stuff makes any difference. There is so much information and lots of conflicts. I guess it's always worth finding out what you can, though, hence mentioning it. 

Hi Protea, I'm so sorry about this cycle. Sending huge hugs. Glad that you're looking forward to the next cycle though and hope you have a nice and restful break in between. (Hope the stats course went well).

Hi Pinksnow. I'm so very sorry about your last cycle. Sending you big hugs x 

Cece, hope all is well. You must be getting close to transfer now? Fertility Fest sounds great, did you go? 

Viv, I hope you're ok. 

Lulu, I've been thinking of you ❤

Hi to Tarapt, miamimiaow and sorry to anyone I've missed x

AFM, I finally got my period yesterday so I will have a saline sonogram and if all ok start drugs to start the frozen cycle on day 21. I started this cycle in February. The PGS has made it such a long one. Too long really. 

On a positive note, I'm getting married on 24th June! We have parental health issues on both sides, so we decided (this week!) that we should do it now. It'll only be us, our parents and my little boy (hoping to have a party with family and friends next year, when we have more time to sort something out). Despite that, for 2 people who were not that bothered about getting married we are both quite excited which is nice. I call my other half 'DH' so much I sometime forget that he isn't officially one yet (I can't do 'DP' as we have partners at work and it always reminds me of that!). It's been a really hard year and it'll be 2 years in July since we lost our son, so it'll be nice to have a little bit of sunshine in our lives. 

I have been nodding my head in agreement about the IVF chub. Not sure how I'll manage to get rid of existing avocado/full fat milk chub in the next 3 weeks ( while scoffing all All Bran!) before I start IVF and get more chub from all the drugs! And only 6 weeks to try and sort my poor skin out 😮 Ah well. There are bigger things to worry about as we all know. 

Love to all xx


----------



## Flipper40

Hello,

Wanted to ask if I could join your thread. I am waiting for AF to start and will be starting my first cycle and will be DE. It has been a long journey to get to this point and am so excited to finally get the go ahead. Not sure which thread to join so apologies if I am in the wrong place.

At just turned 44 and have been hoping to meet Mr right but that hasn't happened so have made the decision to go it alone before it is too late. Was such a huge decision but feels like the right time.

I have had loads of tests and nothing has gone to plan. Hormone levels too low so turned down for IVF and have mined to DE as my only option. After an ultra sound they discovered tumours in my uterus which had to be removed. During that operation they deistic erred my uterus was too small and cut it open to allow a larger cavity. I have been through a few weeks of pain and general feeling awful but all good now.

Found my donors and have the go ahead now to start my first cycle which has made it all worth it. Am worried the op has Medes up my cycle and will have to wait longer than normal for AF!!

Have spent today trying to get my international prescription filled that was emailed to me but then realised it is just the pill and will go to the family planning clinics and get it in the north al way and will be much easier!,

Your posts have really helped me and been inspirational and so comforting to read that there are ladies out there going through similar things!

Sending you all bags of luck!,,


Flipper xxx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Kris & Tootles - I'm so sorry to read about your BFNs. This is such a cruel process and you have both been through so much already. I'm sending you both love and positive thoughts for whatever you decide to do next xxx  

Bics - I'm so glad that you are almost ready to start your frozen cycle, it really has been a long wait for you and I'm wishing you all the best. I bet you can't wait to get your embie back on board. Huge congratulations for your upcoming wedding! We got married last August and it was a fantastic day. We did everything we could to include our missing little girl (we had butterflies everywhere for her) and made it very much about us. I hope you have a wonderful day xxx

Syd - I'm so happy for you Hun, I love hearing your updates, it's so nice to have some positivity on the thread. I hope you are feeling OK, the middle 3rd of the pregnancy is usually the nicest time, after the 12 weeks of worry and before you start to waddle   Enjoy every minute   xx

Welcome to all the new ladies, sorry I'm a bit behind on everyone's names, but you have come to the right place, the support on this thread is the best.

AFM - Been down regging for 9 days now and just waiting for AF to start properly. I'm spotting so hopefully will get it in the next couple of days. DR scan booked for 22nd and hopefully will start the stims after that. I can't really say I'm very hopeful about this round. I can't see it going any better than last time really and we got a BFN then so I'm struggling to be positive about our 2nd go. 

Sending love and baby dust to all xxx


----------



## Flipper40

Good luck Butterfly, keep going it will all be worth it when you get that BFP! It's hard and it sucks but you can do this. Are you doing anything differently this time round.

Protea, I think there is quite a lot on here about international clinics but not in a single thread. I am using a clinic in Spain which a friend recommended to me. When I was researching on here I looked at some of the threads under the international sections and if you hunt around there is a couple of discussions going on. A good place is DCN page on choosing a clinic. I knee it is geared up to using all sorts of donors but useful info about choosing and comparing international clinic and what the differences are. 

Syd I hope you are doing well and feeling ok?

Kris and tootled sending you big hugs and so sorry to hear your news.

Check did you go to fertility fest? What was it like?

AFM I am still waiting for my period. So typical when I am waiting it arrives late. Think the Hysto I had may have played havoc with my cycle. I told my family this weekend what I am doing, I am single and over 40 so think they had all given up on me. My poor dad went in to total shock. All in all it has been a pretty emotional weekend!


----------



## Syd72

Thanks Protea.  There's no link I'm aware of to choosing the best international clinic, I guess because there are lots of great clinics out there and in the end it's down to personal preference.  Spain, Czech Republic and Greece seem to be the most popular choices.  Spanish clinics I think are the more expensive of the three and they seem to always want to do a dummy cycle before the real thing but seem to have a lot of success.  I'm obviously biased towards Greece   There look to be some great clinics in Czech Republic too.  I personally found cycling overseas really easy.

Bics, how did the sonogram go?  Great that you're finally getting going!  And congrats on getting married in June, how exciting!  I hadn't heard particularly about the fibre thing I don't think but definitely about the teeth thing.  They don't know why but there's a link between gum disease/plaque and miscarriage - very weird.  Before my first ivf cycle I was being very through and took myself off to the dentist for a check up and a torture session with the hygenist...

Welcome Flipper, you're definitely in the right place   I'm sorry you've had such a rough time since starting but glad you're there now.  Just to warn you, it's sods law that AF always starts late when you're waiting to start a cycle!!  Very best of luck, keep us posted on how you're getting on.

Butterfly, hope AF starts soon for you.  Not sure if it's any help but I didn't feel at all hopeful about my last round - it was no different from the previous round other than a different donor so I couldn't see any reason for it to work when the first one didn't, but it did.  You just never know.  The first donor (the one that didn't work) was well proven so there was no issue there.  As we say all the time, once you sort any major problems, it's a numbers game.  Everything crossed for you.

Thank for all your kind words and support ladies.  I've officially hit 12 weeks today and yesterday all my results came back low risk which is great news.  I have to say though, it doesn't feel in anyway real yet.  I think it's partly because my last scan a week ago I was measuring 10+6, the figure in my head when it's all safe is 12 weeks (obviously not completely safe but somewhat).  I see the doctor again in 3 weeks so hopefully all will still be ok and it'll feel real.  

Love to all xx


----------



## Bics76

Hi all sorry for the delay (again! 🙄) 

Hi Flipper (great name 😊). It sounds like you've been through the wars to get to this point you poor love, but very exciting times ahead for you now. It made me smile reading about your family's reaction to hearing about your IVF.  Sounds like a bombshell but in a good way. It's great they know, so they can support you through this. 

Hi Butterfly, thanks for your lovely message. Really lovely to hear about your wedding, congratulations, and thank you ❤  We are trying to do the same for our little boy (for him it's sunflowers). We want to make him a special part of our day ❤🦋🌻

Thanks so much. I'm wishing you the very best too. I so hope it happens for you. 

Yep, I'm totally wanting to get started now. It's been such a long process and I just want to get cracking. Has AF come for you now? I hope so. It sounds like we'll be on a similar timeframe as I'm due to start stims on 31st all being well. I know what you mean about not being hopeful, it's hard to be positive after so much disappointment, but you just never know - maybe now is our time. I really hope so x 

Syd, ahhhh wonderful news! That's brilliant about the scan, I'm so happy to hear that. It'll start to feel real soon. It really will. Enjoy it lovely xx 

Thanks for your lovely message. My sonogram is tomorrow. Trying not to think about it too much.  This time, with the PGS it has felt like a series of challenges that we need to get through one at a time, so I'm hoping it'll be ok and I can start at the end of the month. Thanks for the dentist information. It's a weird one isn't it? I have made an appointment! 

Yes I'm super excited about getting married,
even if it is a tiny wedding. It will be special after all we've been through. Probably too much to also hope for some sun, but I have my fingers crossed ☀ 

Hugs to all xx


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies!

Its been a while for me.  I got back this week from Melbourne. Nice to have a break from everything.  I spent the last 3 weeks downing, coffee, wine and cocktails.  I forgot how much I missed it. 
Had my follow up appointment yesterday.  I am going to cycle again, with one of my frozen embryos this time.  Ill see how that goes.  It will be nice not to have to inject and go in for scans all the time. Just waiting for my period to start, it's due this Saturday. FET seems to be a more drawn out process.  Not ideal as I think transfer will coincide with my trip to Italy. I need me some beach time.  

How is everyone?  Syd, you seem to be going fabulously.  How was your last scan?  I'm so delighted for you. How are you feeling?
Butterfly, are you in your cycle now?  Hope you are feeling positive.
Toots, I see you are taking a bit of a break too.  Its so disappointing and hard to bounce back from a BFN.  I hope you are doing well on your end.
Lulu, how are you coping on your end?
Bics, congrats on your nuptials. That is great news.  I am sure you are very busy with plans and progressing with your FET.  I'm keen to know how you go with it.  I have never done one before. 
Cece, did you go to Fertility Fest?  I really wanted to go, it looked great, however, I was in Melbourne for it.  I did watch some live sessions online. 
Pauli, how are you feeling?  I hope you are bouncing back from your loss. 
Protea, how are you?  You should be starting your new job soon?  It is good to have a break and regroup.  Its all so hard going. 
Flipper, welcome. You have had a rough patch. I am glad that it is all leveling out and you can start shortly.  No doubt your family will be delighted if this works.  I certainly hope it does. 

Sorry if I have forgotten anyone.  I am out of my skull with jetlag.  I have been waking up at 3am everynight and can't get back to sleep.  Apologies, if I have said something silly. 

Love to you all.  xxx


----------



## CEce40

Hi all, 

Kris, you beat me to it with the personals. I second your comments. Wow, that saved me 20 minutes, I'll time my posts straight after you more often!

Sorry for the radio silence. We got the call that the donor was ready so we hot footed it out to Spain and came back last night. 2 b grade blasts on board and nothing to freeze. They try to give minimal stimulation to the donors so they don't produce the buckets of eggs I had initially imagined. We got 10 eggs, 7 fertilised then only 2 got to blast. That doesn't sound too amazing for a 23 year old - maybe us oldies are doing better than we thought!

The drugs are still having their fun with me. One particularly violent throwing up session made paella come out of my nose. You could never accuse IVF of being boring! Other idiotic situations which are almost certainly just me, but for which I blame the drugs, include walking into a glass door, face planting whilst dancing a flamenco in my socks, mooning the doctor, embryologist and assistant during a consultation and spending 20 minutes watching my case going round and round the baggage carousel thinking it was someone else's. All things considered, a memorable trip. 

I didn't go to Fertility Fest i the end as we were on standby for Spain so didn't want to get tickets and not use them. I watched the fight clubs on the live stream, I thought they were great, especially the one on Saturday night with the discussion about language and the stupid things people feel obliged to throw at you. 'mother is a verb' was my favourite fight talk, she articulated exactly how I feel about donor eggs and gave me a lot of comfort that I was doing the right thing. I want to be her best friend. I'm currently stalking her! I think the filmed fight clubs are still available on the internet if anyone is interested, I'd definitely recommend it. 

Hope everyone is getting on well with whatever stage you're at in this horrid, sucky process x


----------



## Flipper40

Evening everyone 


Kris welcome back from Melbourne? Did you have a good trip or was is for work? Forgive me if you already said in an early post. Good luck this weekend hope you can get started!

CEce oh my goodness you certainly have had an eventful few weeks! Your trip to Spain made me howl!! Sounds exactly something that would happen to me!  I am so sorry to hear you only got 2 blasts out of 10 eggs!! Like you said for young donor that seems low!? Maybe this is more about luck than first thought. What is the next step for you guys now? 

Bics congratulations on your wedding this month, I hope you have an amazing day x

I am STILL waiting for my period to start! Now 2 weeks late and think My cycle has well and truly been messed up from the hysteroscopy. The wait is killing me and even the clinic keeps emailing to say have you started yet? 
Yesterday I had to hold a baby to help a customer. God, it was so hard! I was surprised how it affected me. It was gut wrenching and it really made realise how much I want one! It was so difficult to keep a smile on my face but also helped me see the reward for all this heart ache will be so worth it.
More determined than ever now!!

So let's hope period arrives this weekend!!

Good luck everyone xxx


----------



## CEce40

Hi Flipper, where the hell is your AF? that pesky little minx really messes with your head. Turning up uninvited and crashing the party one minute then AWOL the next. She's like that friend who likes to pretend she has an amazing social life by waiting 4 days to return a text. Hope she gets her butt into gear and turns up soon.

Next step for us is the dreaded wait. Official test is via blood on Tuesday. Obviously I'm going to crack before then and do a pee stick either Sunday or Monday. I can't imagine someone knowing the news before me and having to break it to me over the phone. I'd rather spend an hour in the bathroom holding a small stick of plastic up to the light and squinting   

They told us right from the first consultation that they only expect around 12 eggs and about 3 blasts. Its great that the care about the donors and are careful not to overstimulate, but you can't help hoping you'll be the exception and have a whole freezer isle in our name. This whole process is just a constant readjustment. One of the reasons we started to think about donor was that we wanted 2 children and the chances of getting one out of my duff eggs would be a miracle let alone a successful another successful attempt in another couple of years. We decided that it was more important for the kids to be genetically related to each other rather than to me so our plan was donor with loads of frosties to provide the whole family. That idea soon evaporated and we're firmly back to reality that if we're able to have one child we'll feel incredibly lucky. Having said that I still feel really positive about this cycle. There will be a huge crash if its a BFN as I think I've already convinced myself i can 'feel' it!


----------



## Kris76

Anytime CeCe!

Haha exactly, us 40somethings still have some life in our ovaries. I would've thought there would be leftovers, however, if I have learnt one thing in this IVF business is that there are no certainties!  It's fabulous you got 2 blasts to transfer, better than none. I watched the fight club streams as well, I thought they were great. 

Good luck with it CeCe, I certainly hope it is a BFP. You have an excellent chance with such young eggs. Tuesday is not too far away.  I never had the urge to test early as I was always afraid to see a negative. With much higher chances, I would end up testing early too. 

Thanks Flipper.  Went home to visit the family.  I am from Melbourne, however, I have been in London for 12 years. 
Wow, that is late!  How very frustrating.  Cant the clinic give you something to bring it on.  I have read online of this happening to other ladies. I hope it arrives soon.  I understand how hard it would've been holding the baby and how much it made you want one. I feel that way when I hold friends babies. 

Good luck to everyone!

xx


----------



## CEce40

Well I cracked today and did a test this afternoon, on account of my massive knockers and a big nanna vein that has sprouted from one of my nipples. BFP!! Its 5dp5dt so I'm really glad it showed on the test, gives me a bit of hope that's its got some strength behind it. Bit surreal, not sure we'll believe it until we have a scan but all good for now. 

Have a great bank holiday everyone x


----------



## Flipper40

Oh my goodness Cece!!! That is amazing news...Congratulations on you BFP! Am absolutely over the moon for you and great bank holiday news. Keeping everything crossed for you , let us know how your test and scan goes. 

I've been to a BBQ today and told the last few friends that don't yet know what I am doing. They were totally surprised but got a really nice reaction and loads of support which was just what I needed. Still no period which has been driving me crazy so it was nice to get some of the excitement back.

So good to hear your BFP today as well as it gives me a little more hope and positivity. Hope you enjoy that positve test and celebrate is weekend.

Think we may have seen that last of the sun!!


----------



## Bics76

Hi all (is anyone else totally mesmerised/freaked out by this lightning storm? I've never seen anything like it!). 

Cece!! Ahhh wonderful news. I was so happy to read your update 😊 Amazing that you got your bfp and great at 5dp5dt!  It goes to show that you only need one! Lovely bank holiday news. Congratulations x 

Kris, thanks so much for your message ❤ Glad you had a lovely time in Melbourne. Did AF arrive? It'll be lovely to have some company as we do our frozen cycles together. All being well I start stims on Thursday. Mine is a day 21 cycle and as I understand it it'll be a couple of weeks of burserelin and then progesterone patches (or possible injections) for a couple more weeks. I think that means it'll be end of June for ET if all goes ok (if so, I'm hoping it's not going to land on my wedding day! Trying not to think about that 😯). Is your timing similar? I'm nervous as hell! When are you off to Italy? 

Flipper, thanks for your lovely message. I can't believe your AF still isn't here. You poor love, how annoying!  You need the Tootles (I think it was Tootles) expensive and fancy white knicker purchase plan. That'll get AF here in a hurry 😊 I'm so glad you had a lovely reaction at your BBQ. It's great that you're excited again! 

Have a lovely bank holiday all xx


----------



## Syd72

Cece that's fantastic news, congratulations!  Your trip sounds hilarious, minus the vomit out the nose bit... Seems like it was all worth it though   10 eggs is about right for a good clinic, I got 10 from my first donor and 11 from my second.  Did you have two put back?  

Bics, great that you're about to start stims, fingers crossed for end of June date that doesn't fall on your wedding day!

Kris, welcome home, glad you had a good break.  Did AF come on time?

Flipper, hope your AF has got its backside into gear and started now!

I'm on a local ******** group for expectant mums, have to keep reminding myself not to talk to them about cm, beards etc etc  Quite dull compared to the chat on here.

xx


----------



## magicpillow

Hi ladies.  It's been ages since I've been on.  Just wanted to say hello and catch up with what you've all been doing.  I see you got a bfp Cece - that's amazing news, congratulations!  Was it OE or DE?  Such great news. 

Need to go back a few more pages to properly read up on how things are going.  Kris I'm just so sorry to hear about your recent cycle, it really crushes you. 

We are just back from a 2 week belated honeymoon to the Carribean which was much needed.  Feeling much more chilled out and relaxed if not a bit jet lagged!  After having several months break from anything ttc related we've decided to give donor egg IVF a go.  It'll be double donor as we were already using donor sperm.  It's still a tough one to get my head around so I might need some counselling but I still want to experience pregnancy and have a baby.  We are having a consultation next month at the Lister about it all and then if we want to go ahead we can go on the waiting list.  I still worry the donor might not produce many eggs whereas I always respond really well and last cycle I got 14.  I suppose it's all about the quality though and I'll be 42 in August.  I still carry a small candle of hope for using my own eggs but we can really only go one more time so donor gives us more change.  Just wish there was some genetic link so either of us but I know it's not all about that.    Will see what happens!  Not overly enthusiastic about any of it at the moment but hopefully that will come. xxxx


----------



## Flipper40

Magic pillow, welcome back! Glad you had a fantastic honeymoon, sounds like you needed it and was just what the doctor ordered. Sounds like you have a lot to think about and some big decisions to make. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be when you get so many eggs with your own cycles. I really hope your consultation helps and you do what feels right. Definitely took me a few weeks to come to terms with it all.

Syd, huge congratulations. Hope everything is going well for you so far! Keep us posted and let us know how you are getting on.

Cece, how are you doing? How do you feel?

Kris, did AF arrive this weekend?

My AF has well and truly done a runner!! Still no sign and now I am getting worried transfer will not happen in June as planned!! Kept thinking it would come today as I was getting cramps and very uncomfortable but no such luck. Just read online this evening that it can take 4-6 weeks to return after Hysto so maybe I just need to be patient for a bit longer.  I never thought the I would ever want AF to arrive so much! I really hope I don't have to wait the full 8 weeks!

Trying to keep calm and carry on! 😬

Hope you all enjoyed the bank holiday?!


----------



## Kris76

CECe, that is bloody great news!!  Ha, I was taking a drink of water when I read your reason for testing, and nearly spat it out. I'm so delighted for you. Best of luck with your scan.  So glad to hear that it worked. Makes me hopeful. 

Flipper, that must have a relief when you told your remaining circle of friends.  No doubt they were supportive, I'm sure your family and friends wish you the best.  I haven't had the guts to tell my family I am doing IVF.  Not that they won't be supportive, I just couldn't bring myself to admit it. 

Syd!  How are you feeling?  Sorry, how far along are you now?  Sounds like everything is going well, I'm so pleased for you.  You might have to add some spice to your new group 

Bics, I thought the storm was amazing.  We watched from Putney Bridge, we got some great photos.  Your protocol seems long.  No drugs for me and from the timeline that my consultant gave me, I will probably transfer around the 15th-18th June.  I hope it doesn't fall on your wedding day. I am due to go to Italy on the 14th, so I don't think that is going to happen.  There are no refunds, also I really can do with the break, I hope that it falls either side of it. 

Hi Magic, great to hear from you.  Wow, Carribean, lucky you. That would've been amazing.  I bet it was nice I a break from all things ttc related.  That's a big decision you have made.  Yes, you should have counselling to help you process it all.  I understand your decision and would do the same. I read a wonderful article last year about a couple that that couldn't conceive and used a donated embryo which resulted in their daughter. now a teenager.  The daughter said, even though she found her biological parents and siblings and is in contact with them, she is utterly grateful she was to be born and exist and how much she loves her parents who raised her.  It was such a beautiful article, it was what helped me change my thinking about having to potentially use DE.  Wow, you get an incredible amount of eggs, very impressive.  Have you considered PGD testing on them?  I am at the Lister.  Have you always been there or are you moving there for DE?  I do like it there.  I wish you the best of luck on your journey. 

I got my period tonight.  I was 2 days late and had a glimmer of hope that it worked naturally.  No such luck. I wept while eating my ribeye.  I lost my appetite, however, I had already cooked it and it was so expensive from the butcher.  So that's that, Ill call the clinic tomorrow and start my FET process. 

Hope everyone had a good bank holiday.

xx


----------



## CEce40

Thanks for the congrats ladies. Had a blood test today. 8dp5dt and the HCG was 97. Is that good? I've got another one on Thursday to check the increase, but I'm feeling quite positive at the moment. 

Flipper, its great that your friends were so supportive. I don't know what I would have done without my friends this past year. Your AF very mysterious, this should be in the Guinness Book of Records. 

Bics congrats on the wedding, really hope your FET dates fall on the right side of your nuptuals. 

MagicPillow, mine is DE, it's are first time using donor and I must say it really takes the pressure off. Its a big decision though and not for everyone. Counselling sounds like a good idea. How long is the waiting list for DE in the UK?

Kris, damn that little glimmer of hope every month. Steak and tears sounds terrible, you poor thing. At least you can get on with your FET now, full steam ahead.

Now can I start a chat that Syd's expectant mums group would disapprove of? These damn pessaries. This is obviously not my first rodeo with these bad boys, I'm a veteran of 5 cyclogyst cycles and really should know what I'm doing by now. Something different has been happening to me this time around - I am ejecting them! I don't feel any, cough, looser down there. I don't think I've suddenly developed an old lady garden with gravity issues. So why, lord why, in the 2 short minutes between bathroom and bed have I started firing them out like a Thai ping pong girl? This only happens in the evening. Any wisdom, anyone? There's only so many times you can play catch with your husband before it moves from hilarity to just being generally weird.


----------



## magicpillow

Thanks so much ladies.  That's great that you've had a positive experience with DE Cece.  Sounds like a good HCG to me!  I think the waiting list for a donor match is anything from 3 - 9 months.  I don't mind if it's a longer wait as I'm not physically ready yet and still need to do some work to get my health properly back after the last onslaught.  

Flipper I really hope AF shows up really soon and you can get on with FET!

Kris thank for your encouraging words.  That's really interesting that you are at the Lister too!  We mainly chose there because they do a donation programme and we wanted open identity which you don't get abroad.  Obviously they have a good reputation too!  We never did PGS on the embryos, mainly due to the cost and I keep thinking they must have all been abnormal.  Last cycle in December I got 14 retrieved, 10 fertilised and at day 3, 7 were still going strong.  By day 5 we had 2 blastos to transfer and the other two were lagging behind so we didn't freeze.  We've approached the Lister with a view to egg donation but can see what they say.  I don't think hubby would want me to do own eggs again due to the low odds and high financial cost.  I'm also worried in general about all the drugs and hormones I've pumped into my body over the years and the potential effect on my long term health.  Argh it's all so hard.  Sorry you got your period Kris.  It's so hard when you hold out that glimmer of hope that it might happen naturally.  I still hope sometimes despite our azoospermia diagnosis! xx


----------



## Syd72

Cece, thank you for brightening my day with some pessary chat, I've just nearly wet myself laughing at your description.  I have nothing constructive to offer other than, are you getting them high enough?  Maybe, as per the ping pong ball trick, everything down there is now SO toned that you can't help firing them back out??  As for only in the evening, that's just plain weird...  Unless maybe your cervix is lower in the evening?  It does move throughout the day.  Have you tried laying on the bathroom floor and sticking your legs in the air?  Or just inserting them whilst laying in bed?  This is why I MUCH prefer the injections...  Btw, 97 at 8dp5dt is great, that's 13 dpo.  Mine at 18dpo this time was 446, bearing in mind your's will probably double more than twice by the time you get to 18dpo you're spot on.

Magic, the honeymoon sounds lovely, really glad you're feeling nice and relaxed now.  Remember donors don't necessarily produce lots of eggs because a good clinic won't overstim but the quality should definitely be better.  Between 8 and 11 eggs seems to be the norm based on my own experience and what I've seen with others.  I know I sound a bit like a broken record but have you looked at cycling abroad (if you're not already).  It's generally quite a bit cheaper so you may be able to fit in another own egg round?  It seems a shame to move on to de when you don't sound like you're really quite ready.  It seems that for the most part overseas clinics are a bit more thorough about exploring different things that could be affecting own eggs.  For example Serum does hidden infection testing - a lot of people don't really believe in this but they seem to have had quite a lot of success with it.  x

Thanks Flipper.  Is it possible to take something to bring it on?  Have you asked your clinic?  I've seen some other ladies do this but of course you don't want to mess things up more.  It's an absolute pig when it doesn't come when you want it to, especially given all the millions of times it comes when you don't want it to 

Ah Kris I'm so sorry, it stinks.  Really hopeful for this FET round.  I'm 14 weeks, scan next week which hopefully will relax me a bit (yeah right...).


----------



## Syd72

Magic, sorry, completely ignore everything I said about cycling abroad.  I've just seen you want open identity which I completely understand.  That was something I grappled with for a while before deciding to go to Serum.  Although how about trying own eggs once more overseas?  I think the cost for own eggs at Serum is Euro 3,000 not including medication, I think other Greek and Czech Republic clinics would be on a par, I believe the Spanish ones are more expensive.


----------



## Flipper40

CEce, you just made me absolutely die, your pesary tricks are hilarious! God knows why that happens. So pleased everything is progressing nicely.

Syd good to hear all going well for you, so encouraging to hear some good news!

Sorry Kris that is really crappy for you!

I contacted my clinic as still no sign of AF. Keep getting lots of cramps and think it is on its way but no!! Clinic has now prescribed me something to get it started. Managed to get it online due to the international perscription and just waiting to see if they approve it and should arrive tomorrow or Friday. You know what will happen now ..... Yep AF will arrive all by herself before the pills do! Oh well hopefully I should have some news in the next few days!


----------



## Kris76

That's great CeCe. I don't know anything about HCG numbers, sounds good!  I'm so pleased for you. Good luck for Thursday. 
Ha, steak and tears sounds like it should be the name of an album. 
That is madness about the cyclogest.  What is going on there?! Don't you lie down for 20 mins once you have taken it?  That's what the clinic told me to do.  However, you can solve your problem by putting the bullet up your bum.  It is so much easier, no mess, no fuss.  Try it and you won't look back. 

Magic, I am keen to know of your dealing with the Lister and DE. I am curious to know the wait time.  I have 4 frozen embryos and I will be transferring one at a time.  If non of them work then I will have to look at DE and I will stick with the Lister. I hope it#s not a long wait time, as Ill be 100 by the time I get to implant. 

Incredible Syd, 14 weeks has come about quickly.  How are you feeling?  Did you experience morning sickness?  I have a phobia of throwing up, so that part Id struggle with. I'm so happy that it is going well for you. You are definitely in the safe zone. 

Flipper, glad that you are getting something to help bring it on.  I wonder if the likes of acupuncture would help?

I had my day 2 scan today, lining is shed.  Only had my period for a day and a half and it has stopped.  A quick one, at least the lining has shed properly in such a short time. One more scan on the 6th to check lining thickness, Ill trigger that night and I transfer 7 days later on the 13th June.  FET is such an easy round!!  Flying out to Italy on the 15th, so that worked out well.  However, I am meant to be in Amsterdam seeing Pearl Jam on the 13th.  That's a bummer. 

xx


----------



## Flipper40

So as predicted, I paid a small fortune for the tablets last night and whilst waiting for them to be delivered AF arrives all by herself. TYPICAL!!!

Now I have a perscription for my protocol which I need to start tomorrow. I have been trying to call Ali's Chemist all afternoon but no one has replied. My clinic has emailed them my perscription and I emailed them to to check they got it and pay but I haven't heard anything.

Has anyone used them before? I will try again in the morning and was then thinking of going to the Chemist tomorrow as I am not too far away. Does anyone know of I can get my drugs from there still  or just go to the chemist and talk to them directly?

Any other advice on where to get my drugs for tomorrow would be appreciated as I am beginning to really worry that I won't get them in time.

ET all booked for the 19th June and going to fly out to Spain a few days earlier I think and chill out a bit!


----------



## Syd72

Kris, I also have a really bad phobia about throwing up!  Ian woke up in the middle of the night and was sick (in the bathroom thank god) and I lay wide awake for the next hour terrified he had a bug that he passed to me, I was clinging to the edge of the bed to get as far away as possible.  If I hear anyone that I've been in contact with is sick I panic... I haven't thrown up with the morning sickness, I just feel nauseous for most of the day.  Great news on the scan, sounds like an fet is similar to a donor round - lovely after oe.

So annoying flipper but at least it's arrived.  I've never used Ali's but have always heard good things about them - hope you got it all sorted.


----------



## CEce40

Hallelujah Flipper, it's arrived! Annoying about the drugs, but hold on to them, those little beauts could come in handy at a later date - I'm thinking just before a holiday, Christmas etc. Knowing you have a little back pocket antidote to the woes of bad-timing periods is quite a trump card.

Kris you little rocker you. Pearl Jam in Amsterdam, you're just too damn cool. Its a good job I don't have a sickness phobia. All I seem to do is have my head down a toilet with all the drugs over the last 18 months. Morning sickness should be a breeze after all that.

I like your thinking Syd, I'm just really toned. I'm holding on to that one! My, err, 'issue' seems to have resolved itself, thankfully, but thanks for all the suggestions. Kris, I've tried the back door, I'm just not a bum girl. I quite like to fart (I apologise to the female race, I realise I'm letting you down), I can't take the pressure of accidents. I think it was my cervix moving around. Its now really high and straight and clenching those bullets like nobodies business. I'm very happy I'm no longer a human slip n slide!!

Had my second bloods yesterday. I'm now at 233 (at 97 2 days before) so I've very happy with that. Just need to book in my first scan for a couple of weeks. It actually starting to feel real now


----------



## Syd72

Excellent doubling. I could never get on with them up the bum either...


----------



## Kris76

Oh no Flipper, it's always the way. Glad it has arrived though. I don't know anything about Ali's Pharmacy. Boots do IVF drugs. 

Syd, that sounds like me!  I panic too.  If I have to throw up, I do it with my eyes closed while crying.  Good to hear you have managed to avoid it so far. 

Geez CeCe, stims has made you that ill?  I would not cope.  Haha I'm prone to some farting myself.  As long as you wait 15-20 mins post white bullet, you're in the clear. Good to hear your cervix has sorted itself out. Incredible HCG result.  Im so delighted it has increased so much.  It all sounds like its on track and is here to stay. Hard to hold out for a scan, can't you insist on one now?

Hope everyone has a good weekend coming up.  I did diddly squat work today...or yesterday for that matter, heart wasn't in it.  Absolutely bucketing down with rain.  I hope we get a damn summer this year. 

x


----------



## CEce40

I'm so with you on the work front. Working from home today and definitely running on minimal effort. 

I'm not sure I want an earlier scan. If I can't see the heartbeat I'm not sure it will help really. I'm feeling pretty comfortable at the moment, probably because its DE so less risk of miscarriage. We'll see, I'll probably cave next week.


----------



## Kris76

Yep, I basically started my weekend on Wednesday. 

Fair enough good point.  As long as you are content.  I have such a fear of miscarrying again. You're right, much less risk with DE.


----------



## CEce40

I know, it's such an anxious time. But I'm really trying not to dwell on what could go wrong. I feel like we give up so much when we have to go through IVF, I really don't want to feel like the chance of a 'normal' pregnancy has been taken away from me as well. I almost know too much and have read too many horror stories that I could drive myself crazy if I let it. My feelings will probably change in a couple of days, but at the moment I'm firmly in the place of thinking that if things are going to go wrong then they will go wrong and there is nothing I can do about it. Worrying about things now will not make the despair any less if that ultimately happens. So for now I'm just going to try to enjoy it and deal with each stage at a time.


----------



## Flipper40

CEce, great blood test result! Enjoy it as much as you can. Sounds like everything is going well right now which is a good sign. Take one step at a time which is exactly what I am trying to do. Picked up my meds today and have two packs of the pessaries too! 

Syd ... Me too I absolutely hate being sick. I get myself in such a state when I feel sick. Once I am sick it's never as bad as my fear!, my sister is 20 weeks pregnant and has been sick every day all day so far. I am really praying that I don't get as that!

Kris, I don't blame you. with everything that is going on and this humidity it definitely takes every ounce of will power to focus on work!,

AFM Ali's chemist came up trumps today and I did my first injection. Once I figured out how to use the needle and which bit to pull off and which bit to keep it Took all my will power to stab myself. Seems that it doesn't matter what kind if prick it is they are all a pain in the bum!!! 

Am having the worst AF I have ever had. It certainly has arrived with gusto!! I am hoping starting the drugs will help sort that out. We will see!! Just so pleased to have finally started my cycle and that ET can still go ahead in ?June!

Any nice plans this weekend? 
It is supposed to be warm but I am not sure if the sun will come out!!

Xx


----------



## CEce40

morning all, 

Kris how did the lining scan go today?

How are you getting on Flipper? when in June are you hoping for your transfer? 

Syd you must be getting close to the sexing scan, are you going to find out or leave as a surprise?


----------



## Syd72

Kris, I also do it with eyes closed and crying, also holding my nose...

Cece that's a great attitude.  Are you thinking next week for a scan?  How are you feeling?  I've known the sex for a couple of weeks as I did the harmony test (Hong Kong equivalent).  My OH doesn't want to know so I'm not telling anyone else, he's convinced I'll let it slip before November 

Flipper, sorry it was a horrid AF but good that it started finally!  Do you know where you are on dates yet?

No real news from me.  Still feeling sick and exhausted, currently 15 weeks and still waiting for that second trimester energy to kick in!  Had a scan yesterday, they seem to do them every 4 weeks here which is a bit weird.  All looked good although I do slightly worry about having too many scans.  Flying back to the UK tomorrow night so will have my anomaly scan there.  Hoping for a smooth flight given I can't take a tranquilizer...

Hi to everyone else x


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Had my lining scan today.  Apparently I have a retroverted uterus. It first measured at 6.5...needs to be over 7 at this stage. Then the sonographer said that it just flipped.  Who knew a uterus could do that.  It was in a more accurate position for measuring and in that position it was 7.8. Anyway, I was meant to have a transfer next Wednesday, which was inconvenient for us...Pearl Jam in Amsterdam.  They want me to have one more scan tomorrow to double check the lining and Ill trigger tomorrow night and transfer next Thursday. We are back from Amsterdam early Thursday morning and we fly out to Italy late Thursday night.  Ill transfer during the day. How's that for perfect timing?!  Delighted. Hope it's a good omen. 

How are you feeling CeCe?  Do you have a scan scheduled now?

Syd, amazing but I can't believe you are holding out on us!  I think its a girl.  That will be hard to not let your OH know.  My OH said he wouldn't want to know but I do and bad luck for him as I would plan accordingly. Wow, every 4 week is a lot. I guess they wouldn't do it so often if it were too risky. How long are you back here for?  Good luck with the scan. 

Flipper, how are you coming along?

Beautiful day, I didn't do too much on the old work front.  Enjoyed sitting out back though. 

xx


----------



## Flipper40

Hi to everyone,

Kris - wow I really didn't know a uterus could do that!! That's amazing. Great news though on your lining you must be so pleased. That is what I am getting nervous about now and trying to do everything I can to boost my lining. Not sure how many Brazil nuts I can eat!!

Syd noooo... We have to wait to find out! I bet you let it slip before November!! I would for sure lol!

CEce how are you? Any news on your scan? Hope you are feeling ok?

AFM- I have my lining scan booked for Monday and transfer booked for the 19th. I am flying out to Spain on Sunday 17th and taking some time to relax before hand. Got all my consent forms today and booked some acupuncture. Not sure if it will do any good but worth a try. Getting excited now and trying to ease back at work but that isn't quite going to plan just yet!!  Have taken the transfer week off and am also looking forward to the break to be honest!!


----------



## Kris76

Hi Ladies

Well not so straightforward.  Had another scan today and my lining had thinned to 6 - 6.4mm which was upsetting.  However, my follicle grew overnight from 16mm to 20mm.  Madness.  They previously thought I would be triggering tonight, however, a test and bloods show that I am ovulating today. Bought Ovitrelle for nothing.  The Drs said that I should go ahead with transfer even though I'm under 7mm and their protocol is 7mm minimum.  I don't know what to do?  I can't bear to waste my few precious embryos.  Has anyone had any experience with this?  I'm beside myself. I'm not sure I trust the Drs.  So they say transfer is on Wednesday, damn it's Amsterdam day. They literally have told me 5 different transfer dates.  

I hope your lining comes along nicely Flipper.  It's a bloody nightmare.  

xx


----------



## Efi78

Hi Kris76

Better to cancel and transfer next month.talk to your doctor about different ways to thicken the endometrium


----------



## Flipper40

Oh Kris!,what a nightmare!! This is exactly what I am dreading so can imagine what you are feeling! What a decision you have to make. Can the doctor up your meds to help your lining as you still have another week to make it thicker? I am no expert but it doesn't sound like you are far off the 7mm. Have they said when you need to make the decision by?

My increase in drugs has made the side effects kick in. Headaches,tiredness and oh my god how irritable am I? I now need to wear a warning sign I think and Saturday they go up again!! Approach at your own risk! 

Am thinking of you Kris sending you a big hug xx


----------



## Kris76

I'm not on any meds for the FET, all natural. As I said my lining was over 7mm yesterday but has thinned. They said it could be because I ovulated today, earlier than expected. 

Hi Efi, not sure if I should not proceed as my hormones are all good as is the quality of my lining. Two consultants at my clinic reviewed my case and think I should go ahead with it. I do still have a niggling of doubt. I don't really know if half a millimetre is going to have such an impact. 

It's stressful.


----------



## CEce40

oh my word, Kris. An origami uterus and now a disappearing lining. Its all going on! I have no idea about FETs, medicated or not, so can't really help BUUUUT, you've put your trust in the doctors so far, so you must be comfortable that they know what they're talking about. Maybe have another chat with them, if only to give you some more reassurance and quash a bit of the anxiety. This whole business is difficult and, basically, its all a bit of a leap of faith really, so maybe this is just a bigger jump. Amsterdam day though, noooo. Good luck with your decision.

Syd, I just can't get my head around one knowing the sex and one not. I would not be able to keep that quiet. It would be wind-up century in my house. 

Flipper, glad everything's booked and all systems go. The drugs send me crazy. All those pregnancy symptoms without the pregnancy. I feel like this little bean has had the gestation period of an elephant! 

I'm generally feeling good. Mostly okay, some cramps, some nausea, tiredness, bloating etc but not too bad yet. Nothing compared to everything we've all put ourselves through with all the drugs. I'm trying to go to the gym and be active while I can as I'm sure it wont last. Just waiting for the clinic to confirm a scan for next week, should hopefully be Wednesday or Thursday.


----------



## Kris76

Haha Cece, origami uterus.  Love it. Yes, that's what I figure, I have trusted them this far.  My consultant wasn't in yesterday, however, he reviewed my file today and he is happy that everything hormonally is in order for me to proceed. So **** it, Ill role the dice. No one knows what the **** they are doing at the end of the day, including the Drs. I figure every single woman that has been pregnant over time hasn't had the perfect lining. I'm too old to delay this anymore. We are a bit nuts and have decided to fly back from Amsterdam for Wednesday morning and fly back out that afternoon after transfer to see the second Pearl Jam show. Then we fly back on Thursday and fly out to Italy Thursday afternoon for our friends 40th birthday.  At least I will be too busy to worry about the post transfer wait. The nurse told me yesterday there's no need to abstain from drinking, so intend to knock back a few by the pool. Much needed. 

Glad to hear you are feeling well overall CeCe. I hope we all have a chance to feel the nausea, tiredness and bloating.  Best of luck for your scan next week. Like Syds initially, I feel really good about this one for you. 

xx


----------



## CEce40

good for you, Kris. I think there are never any right or wrong decisions in this game, as long as you make the right choice for you and you're comfortable with it then I think that's all you can do. Fingers crossed luck's on your side with this one. Blooming heck, you'll be giving it the best start, what a globe trotting bubba this would be! Enjoy every minute of it, you deserve it.


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi ladies

Cece - huge congratulations on your BFP!! How far along are you now? Seems like you DE ladies are on roll at the moment, so happy for you  

Syd - Wow 14 weeks already! So glad everything seems to be going well for you xx

Kris - Sounds like your FET is all go for next week. I don't know much about un-medicated cycles, but doesn't the lining thicken naturally in the days after ovulation anyway? I'm sure all be be ready by next Wednesday.

Bics - Sorry I can't look back far enough while posting to see your last update, are you ready to transfer as well? Sending love for your wedding, Sunflowers are a lovely way to include your angel, and they make beautiful wedding flowers. We had a bridemaid's bouquet made for our little girl's grave to match the ones my daughter and stepdaughter had which meant a lot.  

AFM - had egg collection today, got 7 eggs which is the same as last time. Got to do the dreaded wait now to see how many fertilize. DH sample was a bit low this time so we are having to do ICSI which is £1200 I hadn't banked on spending   Looks like it's beans on toast for the next few weeks lol

If we can get any to day 5 transfer will be next Wednesday which is 2 days before my angel's birthday. I hope she is looking down on us and knows how much she is missed.

Love and hugs to all xxx


----------



## Kris76

Haha I know CeCe, lucky little one. Thanks for the well wishes. Ive come to terms with my decision, I was spiraling yesterday. 

Hi Butterfly!  Haven't heard from you in a while.  So glad to hear of your successful egg collection, 7 is a really good number.  My fingers are crossed that they all or mostly fertilise and get to blast. The wait for the call is agony.  You break my heart when you speak of your baby.  What a beautiful gesture.  She knows how much her mum and dad love her. Hopefully you get to blast, as we will be transferring on the same day. 

Lots of love and luck to you. 

xx


----------



## CEce40

hey butterfly, welcome back. Congrats on 7 eggs, fingers crossed for fertilisation. It sounds like very poignant timing for the transfer, lets hope it brings you that extra bit of luck. Your beautiful baby will definitely know how much she's missed and how lovely that she is still such a strong part of your family.  

I'm 5 and a bit weeks, so still very early days but one step at a time and things are looking good so far.


----------



## Butterfly1976

Well the news wasn't great this morning, only 2 eggs fertilsed which is one less than last time when we just did IVF and not ICSI. 

The embryologist said that they could see that some of my eggs weren't good quality and that some didn't survive the ICSI process which is what I was worried about, so I'm feeling seriously robbed at the moment. They didn't give us much choice though as DH's sample had a low sperm count (which is strange cos he usually has a really good one so he's feeling like he's let us down now).

I won't get another update until Tuesday now which seems years away. She did say that it was the best 2 eggs that have fertilsed so I suppose that's good. Just praying that we get one to blast and have something to transfer. This round has been really tough, I had to stim for 2 extra days as well so that had already cost extra, I didn't respond as well to the combined gonal f and menopur as I did to just the menopur last time, and the gonal f is really pricey too!

Oh well there is absolutely nothing more I do to change the outcome now so I'm trying to not obsess too much and relax a bit for the next few days. 

Cece - So pleased that everything is looking good so far for you. Have you got a scan booked yet?

Kris - Hope I can join you for transfer on Wednesday  

Love to everyone xx


----------



## Flipper40

Hi Ladies,

Welcome back Butterfly- love your attitude you are so right you can't change it now, so try not to worry. 2 good ones gives you a good chance. Will keep my fingers crossed for Wednesday!

Is anyone else transferring this week?

CEce di you get a date for your scan next week? I gave good vibes that you will get good news! 

Kris I am so pleased that you are going ahead, e erythropoietin g else sounds like it's in a good place. Hope you have a frequent flyer card!!  All those  flights will rack up a fair few points!!!! ylu will definitely deserve a drink after all those travel plans. Am so pleased you still get to go to Italy.  It will be a great week for you.

Bits when is your wedding? It must be soon if you haven't walked down the aisle already! 

AFM doubled my drugs today and have felt sick all afternoon. It's a nice combination with the headaches!! But am happy the days are going by quickly and to get a day off work. I signed all the consents yesterday too which was exciting!! But I am so nervous about my scan on Monday I just want that done and then I think I will relax a bit more.


----------



## CEce40

oh butterfly I feel for you. The anticipation and dread while waiting for that phone call is really hard and not getting the news you hoped for can be totally flattening. Its really difficult not to focus on the numbers, but you really can never tell what's going to happen. fingers crossed its good news on Tuesday. 

Flipper I had a hard time with the drugs as well, hopefully will all be worth it in the end. hang in there.

No date for my scan yet. My contact at the clinic is useless with admin. No doubt we'll get an appointment next week, but would be nice to have a bit more notice to sort things with work etc. Things all seem to be progressing fine though so I'm not overly anxious about it, we'll have it at some point.


----------



## Kris76

Hi all

Butterfly, I completely understand the disappointment, however, the good news...and all we can do in this difficult process is hang on to whatever good news we can get...is that you got two good eggs fertilised.  My fingers are crossed for you that they make it to blast and we get to transfer together on Wednesday.  I  hope you get a good phone call tomorrow. 

Not good to hear Flipper that the drugs are making you feel so ill.  Good luck for your scan. 

CeCe how are you feeling?

Just a quick one from me as Im trying to finish off work before I fly out tomorrow...probably shouldn't have spent so much time sitting outside last week. 

xx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi all

Well the news could have been worse this morning. Both embryos are still going, although quality wise one is looking mid range, the other lower range so that could be better.

Transfer is booked for 1.30pm tomorrow unless they ring in the morning with bad news.

Gosh I hate this waiting bit it's just awful. Fingers crossed one of our embies make it to blast, although it doesn't sound like the quality will be great. This really has been a disappointing round.

I wish we had the money for a load more goes but this has wiped us out at least for the immediate future as DH isn't working at the moment.

Kris - Hope all goes well with your transfer tomorrow - hope I'm joining you x

Cece - Love your attitude, you are so chilled. Sounds like you have this pregnancy lark sorted x

Flipper - Hope you adjust to the extra drugs soon, sounds like you are having a rough time with them. What drugs are you on? is it the stimms?

Syd - Hope all OK with you xx


----------



## CEce40

Good luck today kris and butterfly


----------



## Bics76

Hello all,

I'm so sorry for the delay. 

My beloved uncle had a stroke last week and at first it looked like things would be ok but it was followed by another and he passed away on Friday. His funeral is next Friday so we have postponed our wedding which was next weekend. It just doesn't feel like the right time. 

It all means that I haven't kept up here at all or even focused properly on the IVF. Diet has been out of the window and apart from doing my injections I haven't thought about my cycle really. I have, though, been thinking about you all and wondering how you're all getting on. I am going to try and catch up now but can see Kris and Butterfly that you have transfers today. Absolute best of luck ladies ❤

I will do a proper read through and come back to everyone else. Hugs to all xx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Bics - Lovely to hear from you, but so sorry to read about your uncle. I'm sending you a big hug  . As long as you are doing your injections the IVF will look after itself for now. Have you got a transfer date yet? xx

Kris - Hope your transfer went well today. Did you have 1 or 2 of your frosties put back?

AFM - We got both of our embies put back which was a bit of a surprise! They hadn't quite made it to blasts but were nearly there (one was compacting and one was cavitating which apparently are the stages just before blast). They don't grade them at that stage so no clue if they are any good, just got to trust in the clinic that they must be a chance that one may implant.

After the disappointment of this round, I'm just grateful to have got this far and be PUPO  

Tomorrow is the 2 year anniversary of us finding out that our baby girl had died 4 days past our due date (she was born the next day) so DH and I are going to spend the next 2 days doing something nice for her and not obsessing about the tww.

Love to all you fab ladies


----------



## Bics76

HHi Butterfly,

Thank you for your lovely message (and the hug - much needed!). Bless you, I hope you're right about things looking after themselves. My diet has been, ahem, sub-optimal to say the least and it's been hard to care lately so I have to get some PMA back. I'm totally off the rails!

I don't have a transfer date as I seem to be on a long protocol. I (hopefully!) start oestrogen patches on Friday for 2 weeks so I think it'll be the end of June/beginning of July for transfer. 

That's fantastic that you had both embies put back in! Great news, especially after a roller coaster cycle. We'll done little embies. PUPO is a good place to be 😊

I will be thinking of you so much tomorrow and I'm sending you huge hugs, love, and light. It will be the 2 year anniversary for my beautiful baby boy next month, so I know. I really do ❤

It's lovely that you and DH are doing something nice for your precious girl and I hope the next few days are butterfly filled for you all  
🦋🦋🦋❤x🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋❤x🦋🦋

Kris, I hope today went well

Love to all xxx


----------



## Flipper40

Hi Ladies,

Sorry for not replying sooner. I am feeling rotten on the drugs and can barely keep my eyes open by 9pm.

Bics I am so sorry to hear about your uncle and having to postpone your wedding. Sending you loads of live and sounds like you have done well to keep up with. Your IVF drugs! 

Butterfly I am so pleased that the transfer went well and both on board now! Really hope today went ok and you did something nice in memory of your little one. Sending you a big hug xx

Kris how did it go? Hope your ok.

AFM scan went well on Monday and lining 7.5mm so my doctor was pleased with that. After blood test came back am now starting Cyclogest tonight and tomorrow I will find out how many eggs I have so an exciting day.
Last day at work tomorrow and I am flying to Spain on Sunday. Am on a real roller coaster of emotions - maybe that is the hormones! It is a weird feeling but generally looking forward to the next few days xx


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Oh Bics I am so sorry.  That is very sad to hear. You have had such a rough patch.  Of course you won't be thinking about your cycle, I wouldn't be either.  Don't worry about eating, you have to do whatever comforts in times like these.  I'm sorry you had to postpone the wedding, again, very understandable.  

Butterfly, congrats on the transfer, 2 embies to transfer is fabulous.  I opted to transfer 1, I figure I can draw it out this way. It was a crazy week, I flew in and out of London 4 times.  We were in Italy on the weekend, which was a nice break.  I have been so busy travelling that I haven't thought much about the tww, which is a nice change.  How are you feeling?  Thinking of you last week, i can't even imagine how hard it is for you and your husband.  Sending you and Bics lots of love. 

That's about it from me, nothing to report.  I don't feel anything or have any symptoms either way. I am really hoping for all of us though. 

xx


----------



## Syd72

Hi all, sorry for the radio silence, everything gets a bit crazy when I first arrive back in the UK - also it'll be a brief one today as I've just arrived in Malta for work...

Congrats on transferring Kris and Butterfly - everything crossed for you!  Kris, that's definitely a crazy week   Italy sounds fab, hope you enjoyed the concert.

Bics, I'm so very sorry.  I've lost two much loved uncles in the past 3-4 years and it's extremely hard.

Cece, hope you're feeling ok and really hope you have a scan date by now.

Flipper, really sorry you're feeling rotten on the drugs.  That never happened to me fortunately although certainly feeling rotten now...

Hi to anyone I've missed.

xx


----------



## Flipper40

Hi,

Congratulations Kris and butterfly in your transfers! I hope they went ok and keeping everything crossed for you.
Kris how was the concert and Italy? Did you feel ok with all the travelling and the transfer in the middle of it all?

Bits- how you doing, I hope you are looking after yourself it has been quite a few weeks you have had. Am thinking of you X

CEce how are you? Any news in your scan? Hope everything is going well.

Syd have a great time in Malta.

I have arrived in  Spain and am transferring tomorrow. Had a lovely day in the sun with my mum and have 8 embryos the last time I heard! So will see how many survived tomorrow and hopefully have some for the freezer too!, am so nervous!! X


----------



## CEce40

Hi all, 

Bics, so sorry to hear about your uncle. And your wedding, I’m sure it will be perfect whenever you do it. 

Butterfly, congrats on the 2 embies. Fingers crossed for you and kris now. 

Flipper hope it’s awesomw news tomorrow. 

Had our scan today. TWINS!!! We’re still in shock. We actually laughed when we saw the screen. Babies are like buses!


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Wow CeCe, that's incredible!! A double congratulations. What a lovely surprise. You guys must be so excited. 

Flipper, good luck for tomorrow. Sounds like you have a lot to choose from. My.fi gets are crossed for you. 

How are you feeling Butterfly? 

Welcome back Syd. Hope all is going well with you.

AFM, I just got my period, 2 days early. Failed cycle number 4.  I'm completely devastated. This is bull****. 

X


----------



## Syd72

Cece, fantastic news, congratulations!  Did you get to see the heartbeat?

Kris, I'm so so sorry.  I really feel like I want to go into problem solving mode for you and come up with things for you to try which I appreciate could be REALLY annoying so do feel free to tell me to shut up.  How many frosties do you have left?  Do you know what your lining has been on previous rounds?  I know your clinic has a 7mm minimum, some clinics (mostly abroad I think) have a 9mm minimum.  I need to go back and see what mine was, my first de round in Jan the clinic wasn't happy with it and delayed transfer (which failed) but I know my lining was much better on my next round.  Have you had clotting issues looked at?  Has the clinic tried you on aspirin or clexane at all?  Do ignore all these questions if you don't feel ready to deal with it, which would be understandable.  I'm so gutted for you xx


----------



## Kris76

Hi Syd

No, you're not being annoying. Thanks for your words. I have 3 left, one is good and the other two are average. They haven't been tested. I wish I had done that now. 

My lining on previous rounds has been great, average around 10mm. That's the stims getting it there. Clearly naturally I can't achieve that. I was 7mm and it thinned. I will speak to my consultant about that when I make a follow up. 

Not aware of any clotting issues, clinic has never checked. Why the asprine


----------



## Kris76

Oops, accidentally hit post. What is the asprin and clexane for? Never heard of Clexane. 

I keep thinking that I should've delayed it and waited for a better lining.


----------



## Syd72

Aspirin thins the blood, it's part of Serum's standard protocol for all women and other clinics have used it for mild clotting issues but also just sometimes to see if it changes anything.  I know a couple of women that have put themselves on it when ttc naturally and had success (not advocating self medicating but maybe speak to your clinic?).  Clexane is the same thing really, thins the blood, but more so.  Again, standard protocol for Serum but other clinics would probably only give it if there was a need.  Oxford Fertility put me on it on my OE cycle because I've had a blood clot previously although obviously it didn't help...

Don't second guess yourself or think you should have done something different, we all do that after a failed cycle but it doesn't help, easier said than done I know.

I can't count the number of times I've seen women on here, and elsewhere, get pregnant from "average" embryos so don't discount those ones.

xx


----------



## Bics76

Hello ladies, 

Thank you all so much for your lovely messages. I really appreciate it  

Flipper, I hope that transfer went well today and that you and your mum have managed to enjoy Spain. I have everything crossed for you. 

Syd, glad all is going well but sorry to hear that you are feeling rough! I had hyperemesis so know that feeling.  

Cece - absolutely amazing news! What a lovely surprise for you both. I'm delighted for you  

Butterfly, hope that you are ok, the 2ww is not too painful and that your celebration of your little girl went well xxx

Kris, I am so very sorry my lovely. This is such a crappy road and it is utterly rubbish. Sending huge hugs. Picking up on what Syd said, I am on Clexane as I have a clotting disorder (Factor V Leiden), but it was only picked up after my son died. I don't know how it hadn't flagged up after an ectopic and 2 pregnancies so it may be worth checking. If I do ever do get a bfp, then at that point I would also be on aspirin (I think that when you take aspirin depends on clotting issues etc as I know some take it all the way through ttc). The only other thing maybe worth asking about is intramuscular injections of progesterone. It is supposed to distribute it more evenly ahead of transfer. Again, I'm sorry it this is annoying to hear, I'm just thinking of the things that you could ask about.

In terms of average quality embryos, my little boy was not the best of my embryos and he took where a better graded one hadn't, so Syd is right that it doesn't always mean much and my clinic doesn't set much store in grading xx


----------



## Butterfly1976

CeCe - Wow huge (double) congratulations!!!   You are going to have your hands full lol. Here's wishing you a event free pregnancy and remember that while twin pregnancies are classed as high risk, high risk means you get much better care, more scans and monitoring. If you ask me high risk is a good thing!

Flipper - I hope everything went well for your transfer today and that you got some frosties too x

Kris - I'm so sorry Hun   I can't believe your period is so early, I still have a week until OTD so assume you had about the same as well? I don't know if it's the same with FET as fresh though? I'm afraid I don't know anything about un-medicated cycles, but did you at least get some luteral phase support? I'd have thought you would have been on progesterone which should have helped with your lining and usually makes your cycle a bit longer too which helps give the embryo time to implant. My lining was a monster 18mm at transfer which was the biggest that week apparently. It was really thick last time as well though so obviously didn't help.

Thank you ladies for your kind words for my little girl's birthday. Anniversaries and special days are really hard, but we do what we can to keep her with us as she will always be the missing part of our family. Bics - I know that you understand Hun, I wish with all my heart that you didn't know how it feels, It's so cruel xxx

AFM - 6dp5dt today. I'm trying so hard not to second guess this round. I've had a fair bit of cramping on and off, but that's normal for me anyway, I get cramps all through my cycle and no one can tell me why so I've given up asking! I had cramps since before EC this round too, so clearly they don't mean a fat lot! No spotting which is good as I usually spot from about day 21 of a natural cycle and this would be day 25 if you count EC as day 14. But again I didn't spot on my last round until after OTD which I think is due to the progesterone which must help. Still got a BFN though, so really I have no clue what is or isn't going on in there!!

Sending love and hugs xxx


----------



## Syd72

Bics, now I feel bad for moaning   Nothing even close to hyperemesis which must be absolutely horrendous!  Very good point about intramuscular progesterone, I meant to mention that too.  I had it for the first time on this cycle and do wonder if it helped.  Kris, especially as your period often starts before testing day, even on regular progesterone mine never started until I stopped the meds.  May well be worth looking at.  I much prefer the injections...

Butterfly, we can't help but second guess, everything crossed for you.  I didn't say it so apologies but was thinking of you over the past few days with your daughter's anniversary x


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Thanks for all the advice.  I wasn't given anything but cyclogest, to start a day before transfer.  I will ask my consultant about intramuscular progesterone.  Yes, my period has started a bit early or bang on when I'm meant to test.  So in 4 cycles I have never actually had the opportunity to test...even on the round that took, I got what I thought was my period when it was due.  I will also ask about the clotting.  No, I won't discount my 2 underdogs, I just hope that at least one of them is chromosomally normal. I'm distraught. 

Glad you are still in the race Butterfly.  I was told I could test 9 days after transfer as it was a blast, today is day 6. So I can only assume that it immediately dissolved after transfer.  As Syd said, so hard not to second guess. I really hope it works for you. Wow, that is one thick lining!  I'm travelling on the 30th so I will have to wait for my next period to have another FET. I don't want to be flying in and out of London again for transfer. 

Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions Bics. I hope you are managing with your grief. Life can really knock you about. It's can be so unfair. 


Hope the transfer went well Flipper.  

I think Ill go and open some chocolates that I have stashed at the back of the cupboard. 

Love to all. 
xx


----------



## Flipper40

Hi Ladies,

Kris I am so sorry to hear your news, I am gutted for you. You did the right thing going for it this round. If you had not done so you would always look back and think what if. You had to try. Some great suggestions though have been made and good idea to start asking a few tests to be done before the next round. Do something to look after yourself over the next few days. Sending you a big hug.

Butterfly it is only natural to think about all the signs you are feeling. I will be the same over then next few days. I am the same as Syd been thinking about you the last few days going through this at the same time as your daughters birthday X

CEce has it sunk in yet you are having twins? How are you feeling now you know? 

AFM So I started today with the Acupuncture session which hurt like crazy! Was just getting over that when I whisked in to theatre and had the transfer of 2 embryos, 1 top quality and 1 good quality embryo. 1 has been frozen and 3 are still growing and will find out tomorrow if I have anymore to freeze. Then another acupuncture session which hurt again and not what I needed after all the poking and prodding downstairs. I did not need any drugs which was good but feel like I have done ten rounds with Mike Tyson now. All went well though, lining was up at 10mm and scan showed embies in the correct position. 
Doctor didn't really say much about the next two weeks though. No lifting things or doing weights at the gym. Drink lots of water and rest for the next few days. I have read so much online about not having fizzy drinks or any cold drinks, not sunbathing or doing anything that raises your body temperature. Has anyone else been told to not do any of those things by your clinics. I'm not sure now what is the best things to do- may just avoid them all lol!!


----------



## CEce40

Kris, babe, this is a ****ter. I can offer no medical suggestions/investigations; I've only ever had quite a basic protocol with no add-ons. Take whatever time you need. Drink, dance, air guitar, eat, be obnoxious, be greedy, enjoy yourself. I'm sure you'll make all the right decision about what to do next once you're ready to take them.  

Flipper, excellent haul of embies. Fingers crossed the others make it to the freezer. I wouldn't worry too much about what people say online and the different crazy things to avoid. I didn't go to the gym for a couple of days and didn't have any scolding hot baths, but that's it. Do whatever you're comfortable with but I've never heard the fizzy drink thing before or the sunbathing. Good luck in the 2WW.


----------



## Flipper40

Hi, I am home at last!

Quick update from me. 2 more embryos survived and were able to go in the freezer so now have 3 on ice which I was really happy with. Finally got home late last night after a hideous delay and an hour for our bags to come out! So I have taken it easy today. I am having cramps and twingeswhich get worse at night and am trying to keep busy so I don't go crazy waiting to test in the 29th!!

Hope everyone else progressing nicely!


----------



## miamiamo

Flipper40 - good news. I hope everytning will work out for you xx


----------



## CEce40

Butterfly and Flipper, how you getting on? OTD must be creeping up now, have you managed to hold out? I never could. Fingers crossed for you both. 

Bics have you started the estragon patches yet? how are you feeling about this cycle? 


Kris, hoping you're managing to relax and take some recovery time


Syd is the sickness starting to calm down at all and, more importantly, have you cracked yet and spilt the gender beans to hubby? 


AFM all seems good. I've referred myself to the local hospital so hopefully they will be in touch soon with a date for the next scan. nausea comes in waves, but bearable. My new official bed time is 9pm and if I so much as think of an egg I will spontaniously dry heave (had to type that with my hand over my mouth!). But all is good, I wouldn't give up these symptoms for the world and nothing seems as bad as the anxiety, stress, sickness etc of cycling. The twin thing is so exciting. I know we're still at a risky stage but I'm quite relaxed and feeling very positive about the future. We're determined to enjoy this pregnancy and not let what could go wrong overshadow it. We've had out knocks, it's our time now. I'll be 8 weeks on Wednesday and I'm already dying to be in maternity clothes rather than just looking fat!


----------



## Butterfly1976

Flipper - congratulations on being PUPO, great to have some frosties in the mix as well. When is your OTD?

Cece - so happy for you, you are so right this is your time enjoy every minute. Thinking the worst doesn't make it any easier when things go wrong anyway so if you can, just enjoy it xx

Bics - how are doing? Must be getting close to transfer now?

Kris - Hope you are OK, sending love xx

AFM - OTD is tomorrow and I'm absolutely dreading it! I think I'd rather just not know! If it wasn't for the fact that my clinic want to know I think I'd just be waiting for AF to arrive and find out that way. The thought of POAS makes me feel sick, I'm absolutely bricking it lol. I tested 2 days early last time but had no desire to test early this time. I've not really got any symptoms either way so it's anybodies guess. I suppose I just don't think I could be lucky enough to get a BFP and if I do then it's only the first hurdle. Anyway I'm sure I'll find the courage in the morning from somewhere  

Love and baby dust to all xxx


----------



## Flipper40

Evening Everyone,

CEce so pleased you are doing ok and making good progress. I can't believe you are 8 weeks already. You so deserve to enjoy this! 

Butterfly good luck tomorrow! I am with you on this one. Although I dying to know I am scared to test and am waiting until Friday when I am having a blood test. 

Kris how are you doing? 

Bids what stage are you at now? Is ET close?

AFM, I went back to work today and was dreading it as I have been feeling so exhausted! But on Saturday I woke up and had to clutch my boobies when I stood up as they were so sore. Been feeling nauseous in waves mainly when I am hungry. Completely lost my sweet tooth for the first time in my life! Trying not to read too much in to symptoms as know this could also be the drugs. Actually work was a nice distraction and I managed to work through the nausea, roll on Friday!! Got a couple of easy days now which will be nice


----------



## Bics76

Hi everyone,

Sorry for the radio silence. We had my uncle’s funeral on Friday, so it was a hard weekend. It would have been my wedding on Sunday so that was a strange feeling too, but we’re glad that we postponed it. 

Flipper, great that you got some embryos to freeze. That’s brilliant. So much luck for 29th! Not long now. I have everything crossed for you. I’m glad the return to work has been ok. 

Symptoms are such a pain aren’t they? They totally mess with your head (do for me anyway!). 

I seem to be on a super slow protocol so I’m not quite sure when transfer is. I’m in for a scan today and if all is ok I think I start the progesterone injections so transfer day must be soon. Maybe next week? My clinic are all wait and see whenever you ask about timing, so I never seem to know much in advance. Maybe that’s a good thing as I have zero patience! 

Butterfly, good luck for today lovely!! I know exactly what you mean about not wanting to test. I have always been a serial early tester (I’m talking 5dpo!). This time though I don’t have any desire to test early as I don’t want the journey to end. I have absolutely everything crossed for you today and will be thinking of you ❤

Syd, haha don’t feel bad. Yep hyperemesis is bloody awful but I meant that the early weeks of feeling crappy and shattered are a bit grim so I hear you and am sending hugs over the waves. Hope you’re feeling a little better. 

Kris, I have been thinking of you lovely. Sending huge hugs x 

Cece, 8 weeks! Fantastic 😊 it’s lovely to hear how you’re enjoying it all. That’s totally the way.It’s your time now ❤ I still can’t get over twins. How lovely. 

Yes I’m on the patches - 2 every other day now. I’m not feeling great about the cycle to be honest. It’s the first time I’ve ever eaten so badly (normally I’m super strict and healthy) had so little sleep and been generally super stressed as we’ve had so much going on. I’m trying to keep positive but it’s hard. Hopefully today will give me a kick when I find out what’s happening next.

Sorry to anyone I’ve missed and hugs to all xxx


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

All happening over here. 

Bics, I hope you are ok  I can imagine how hard the weekend was for you and your family. Yes, you did the right thing by postponing.  You do seem to be on a very long protocol, I do hope you get to transfer soon. Sending you lots of love. 

Butterfly, best of luck today.  I hope you got your BFP. My fingers are crossed for you. 

Flipper congrats, glad to hear that it all went smoothly. I think your symptoms sound positive. I had similar ones on the round that it initially took.  I hope his one sticks. Good luck for the next 2 weeks. 

CeCe, so glad that everything is positive and well on your end.  Ha, love your new bed time.  Yes, you are absolutely right, nausea is so much better than stress and anxiety.  I think these two are destined to be, as you said enjoy the journey, you deserve it. 

Syd, are you still over this side of the pond?  The weather has been amazing. 

AFM, I had a scan and my follow up appointment this morning.  I have been feeling so down and struggling to hold it together. As I mentioned I bled last Tuesday, 3 days before I was due to test, however, it was light and only lasted until that evening.  Then nothing until Saturday, where it was heavier and at one stage I was urinating blood.  On the weekend it felt more like a period, so I don't know what last Tuesdays was.  The scan this morning showed that I was around day 3. I spoke to my consultant for a while, went through different options.  I still have 3 frozen embryos, with 2 of them being great quality and the 3rd average. I will do another FET, but this time it will be medicated.  I raised my concern about my lining not being thick enough and possible clotting issues...actually he raised that as a possibility but ultimately believes that I don't have a problem with it.  My consultant still thinks that im absolutely fine to go ahead with a natural cycle but to placate my concerns and eliminate any variables, I will medicate.  Today I started synarel and have started taking Proygnova for lining.  I will start Clexane in about a weeks time. However, he said that it doesn't matter if my lining is 6 or 11mm that it doesn't make a difference.  I don't know if I am doing the right thing by suppressing my natural cycle and loading myself with drugs again but it's happening. At least this way, it allows me to go away all of next week as I won't need to go in for scans.  I was worried that I would have to sit this cycle out. It is estimated that I will transfer on either the 15th or 16th.  I will transfer 2 this time. We'll see, if round 5 works. I remember when I was just starting out and I met a lady who just had her failed 5th round and my jaw dropped.  I never ever thought it would also be me. 

Lots of love and luck to everyone. xx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Thank you for your all the good wishes. I managed to POAS this morning and unbelievably it was a BFP! I would have been happier with a darker line but it was definitely there so for now at least I guess I'm pregnant  .

It doesn't feel even a bit real, and there is such a long way to go that I daren't even think it's real yet but even if the worse happens at least we've managed implantation so that's a big step forward.

Of course now I'm worrying about every twinge (and I'm getting loads of them) and on knicker watch every time I go to the loo   I have a scan booked for 2 weeks time, so just hoping we get to that next milestone. 

Bics - Sorry you've had a tough weekend, do you have a new date for your wedding?

Kris - Wow can't believe you are cycling again already, I think you are doing the right thing with the meds, you've tried a natural cycle so trying medicated makes sense x 

Love to you all xxx


----------



## Syd72

Hi all, responding from my phone so hope I catch everyone.

Kris, if you tried unmedicated last time I think it’s a good idea to try medicated this time. Is this the first time trying clexane? I just can’t understand your consultant saying that about lining, I’ve always  been under the impression from Serum, from Oxford and from others experience that lining is key? Everyone doesn’t have to have 15mm lining or whatever (sorry, poor grammar there) and I know trilaminar is the most important but most clinics need a minimum thickness. Will you be flying at all around your next transfer date? I know most clinics say it doesn’t matter but my only successful cycle I didn’t fly for 5 days after transfer which just makes me wonder.

Butterfly congratulations! Fantastic news. I’m 18 weeks today and it still doesn’t feel real...

Bics, so sorry, what a horrible weekend. Have you thought about a new date? Thanks for the good wishes, if I don’t let myself get overly tired the nausea is manageable.

Flipper, I hate the whole symptom spotting thing. Other than sore boobs, my symptoms only started when I finished  the pred but main ones are nausea helped by eating and loss of what was a VERY sweet tooth!

Cece, no beans spilled yet (hope mentioning beans didn’t make you yak). I would have really loved twins, so exciting. I was a bit overweight before I fell pregnant and I’m tall so thought I wouldn’t show for ages but I’m actually quite big already. In normal clothes (the few I can still fit into) I just look fat but in maternity clothes I look properly pregnant.

Mia, hope all good with you.

Kris, I’m in Malta at the mo, so nice and hot but with airccon in the bedroom and a pool to jump into  I was working here all last week and now having a few days r&r.

Love to everyone x


----------



## Flipper40

Butterfly that is amazing news! Congratulations on your BFP! I am over the moon and so happy for you!! 

Syd glad to hear everything is going well and your 18 weeks already!!

Kris lovely to hear from you and that you have a plan in place. Medicated sounds like a good way forward. The doctor has complete control of everything then-- well almost!

BICS- sorry to hear you have had a tough weekend. I feel for you so much and do much on your plate right now. Sending you a big hug and positive vibes for this cycle!

CEce good to hear all going well! I have nausea now too on and off all day. I am reaching for food all the time to keep it at bay! Am hoping that is a good sign but who knows!! Let us know how it goes at the hospital.

AFM work was a struggle today, I felt sick most  of the day and was so tired by 3:30 I came home. Unfortunately got stuck in traffic on the m25 so didn't get home much earlier. Today is the first day I have really been tempted to test but am definitely going to try and wait a few more days.


----------



## Bics76

Hi all,

Sorry for the delay. I have been tying to catch up on work that has been ignored for the last few days. It has clearly been all go here since I’ve been away! 😊

Kris, thanks for your lovely message ❤ I’m ok thanks. Quite stressed but I’m trying not to be. Yes, it’s been such a long protocol this time, especially with the PGS, but I was told today that transfer is next Thursday so things are moving! I am nervous as hell as after all this time it suddenly feels very real.

It’s good to hear that you are pressing on and great that you can start so quickly! I did a natural cycle last year with my last frozen embryo (from 4 years earlier). I was convinced it would work for that reason and I was really shocked and totally gutted when it didn’t. Like your consultant, mine said that it was just one of those things and that doing a natural cycle hadn’t made any difference. He said pregnancy rates are pretty much the same. I always felt though that maybe I just need all the drugs, so I did a medicated one this time. I know how it feels to wonder so I think doing a medicated cycle this time is a good plan. I will be thinking of you as you start on this round and wishing hard for it to give you your bfp. 

Butterfly! Woo hoo that’s amazing news!! I am so thrilled for you, especially after such a roller coaster cycle! 😊 Yes, I can imagine that it doesn’t feel real at all right now, especially after everything you have been through, but enjoy this moment if you can lovely.  

Syd, thanks for your message ❤ We are getting married on 12th August now, so it’s nice to have the new date to look forward to. It doesn’t feel like it’s going to happen after postponing, but I guess I just need to get back to planning etc. 

I hope you’re having a lovely time in Malta and that the nausea is not too terrible. A pool to jump into sounds blissful! 

Flipper thank you so much for your lovely message (and the positive vibes, I really need them!) ❤ I’m so sorry that you’ve been feeling so rough, and rotten luck to get stuck in a traffic jam too when you’re feeling awful 🙁They all sounds like v positive symptoms though!!! I have absolutely everything crossed for you and am wishing you so much luck! Xx


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Firstly, a huge congratulations to your Butterfly.  How wonderful, such great news. I'm over joyed for you...and your husband. Yikes, I can imagine how agonising the next 2 weeks will be.  I really hope that all is well when you have your scan.  My fingers are crossed for you.  You certainly deserve this.  

Bics, I forgot you had the PGS testing.  I wish I had done it now, I think it would have saved me a lot of heartache. Thanks, I feel better that you all seem to think the medicated route is the way to go.  I was spiraling this morning and emailed my consultant with concern about not doing a natural cycle. Great to hear you have a new wedding date set. Something lovely to look forward to. Good luck with transfer on Thursday.  Very exciting.  Surely, the universe is going to give you a break? 

Syd, Malta sound incredible, as does the pool.  I want your job. Yes, unmedicated did not work, however, I believe that was down to having an abnormal embryo.  I had not head of Clexane until you mentioned it recently.  My consultant did say that other clinics will put women on it as a precaution, however, since I fly so much if I had clotting issues it probably would've come up by now. I don't know. I know what you mean, I thought that lining was a huge thing.  All the consultants there, including the Clinic Director all said that while they have a enforced 7mm minimum requirement, there are exceptions.  Not every woman to have gotten pregnant has a perfect lining over 7mm.  That I have a naturally thinner lining and that was fine as my hormone levels were perfect. Who knows?!! 
Funny you mention flying, I've had mixed opinions at the clinic.  One said not to fly as they don't know the impact.  My consultant said, it's absolutely fine to fly.  Having said that, I have flown immediately after each transfer I've had, long haul 27 hour flights.  My last transfer recently I took 4 flights within a 4 days of transfer.  I will not be flying after the next transfer on the 16th.  Not due to again until the end of August.  It will be interesting to see if it makes any difference. Interesting that it seem to have for you. 

Flipper, that's incredible that you have such strong symptoms so early on. I hope that is a positive sign.  Take it easy. Good luck. 

Lots of love to all.


----------



## miamiamo

@Kris76 - My coordinator also told me that flying is safe, and there should not be any issue that would harm an early pregancy.


----------



## Syd72

The flying thing is a weird one. I’ve cycled with two clinics both of whom said no issue but of 3 rounds, 2 I flew long haul within 36 hrs and they were the two that failed. Air stewardesses have a higher than average rate of miscarriage but no one knows why. A friend of mine cycled in the US and the clinic advises no flying for 2 weeks after transfer! She followed that on what ended up being her first successful round but the second time flew back to the UK that night and it was again successful. It’s probably a complete coincidence but I made a conscious decision not to fly last time and would do that again, probably all in my head 

Bics, the pool was b****y freezing, won’t be jumping in there again!


----------



## magicpillow

Hi ladies.  Butterfly I'm so pleased to hear about your bfp!  Am keeping everything crossed for you. Really happy for you too Cece!

Bics I'm really sorry to hear the rough time you've had.  I hope you can get a new date sorted.  I need to post on here more regularly as you are all lovely but when I do come back on, so much has happened that I feel bad I can't give each of you a comment as I suddenly forget who has done what as soon as I start typing (even though I do look back and check!).  

I've been away for a bit again as I've been struggling to let go of my own eggs.  We had a consultation at the Lister a couple of weeks ago and the consultant asked us who recommended donor eggs.  We said nobody but we just came to that conclusion.  He commented on how well all my previous cycles have gone and how many eggs I've had retrieved etc.  All my cycles have always gone really well.  He gave us a 17% chance with my own eggs and 45% with a donor (based on their average results).  My husband said he would support me whatever I wanted to do but he is more up for donor as this will definitely be our last cycle so I need to be sensible and do what gives us the best chance.  It's so hard as I am still capable of having my own child but the odds are low and we've done 4 fresh cycles already.  I'm finding it hard to let go though. I've had some counselling which has helped work through things.  We even looked at what it would be like to just stop and accept life just the two of us. So so hard but we may end up doing that very soon.  I never thought we'd end up in this position as I always assumed it would work.  Feeling quite bitter towards the pregnant women in my team at work at the moment.  It's hard thinking of double donor and no genetic link etc.


----------



## magicpillow

Oh yeh and the waiting list at the Lister is about 9 months which is fine by me as I'm not physically or emotionally ready at the moment.  So much going round in my head!  Hope you're all having a good day lovely ladies xx


----------



## CEce40

Butterfly, insainly happy for you, amazing news. 

Flipper, all sounds very positive, best of luck tomorrow, everything crossed for you. 

Bics, such a rough time for you lately. Hope you're able to do something special on Sunday to mark what would have been a beautiful day and to look forward to August. Roll on next Thursday, everything crossed for you as well, you deserve this. 

Kris, you're certainly jumping straight back on that horse. I'm the same, I have to feel as though I'm moving forwards or I feel even more in limbo than this whole thing makes us normally. I have no opinion on medicated/unmedicated, but if it makes you feel better to change things up so you feel you've covered all bases then go for it. I always think thought that if I got to the end of the road with only disappointment then I wouldn't want to look back and wish I'd done something differently or tried another option. 

Syd, nice globetrotting, enjoy. I've been a chubster all my life and put on loads of weight with all the drugs so I'm definitely in the fat zone at the moment. I'm just hoping the twins will push out the belly quickly so I can blame the bubs instead of the donuts.

Magic pillow, welcome back. Dont worry about personals, it can take ages and its hard to catch up. just good to have you back, but sorry to hear you're having a hard time. Its a big decision and sounds like you need more time so, as you say, good thing that the waiting list is so long. Could you have more counselling if that helped? I don't envy you, with the added pressure of it being your last go it must be really difficult. Take your time. Maybe think back to what helped you when you made the move to donor sperm. Was there anything that helped you come to terms with not having a genetic link to your other half that you could apply to this? I know its more about the lack of genetic link that's concerning you rather than the use of a donor, but one of the things that made me feel so positive about donor eggs was to think about what characteristics the donor could bring rather than which of yours will be lost. We may have a budding Motzart on our hands or the next Raffa Nedal. Its quite exciting thinking about the different qualities we may uncover that will continually surprise us over the years. I wish you luck with it all. There are no easy choices and you've had to take a few of the tough ones to even get this far so I've no doubt you'll make the right decision (whatever that may be) once you're ready.


----------



## Flipper40

Hi magic pillow, what a tough decision you have to make! I was told I couldn't use my eggs and they wouldn't even consider me for IVF my chances were so low. I cried for a few weeks, actually I cried everywhere and any where it was awful. Once I had grieved I made the decision to use donor eggs as it is my only chance to have a baby. As I will carry it and give birth to it and it will be the most loved baby ever. 

It is such a difficult and decision and a personal choice that has  to be right for you. I hope you find what is right for you

It is my big day tomorrow. I am having my blood test! So nervous! Thanks for the best wishes CEce, I absolutely can't wait now to find out. Am just hoping they don't have send the bloods to the lab and are able to give me the result tomorrow!


----------



## magicpillow

Ah thanks ladies, you're so lovely.  Wise words from you both.  Flipper good luck for your blood test, bless you!  Let us know how it goes lovely.  
Cece that is very true about what other traits a donor could give to your child.  There are some things about me that I'd rather not pass down lol so it's nice to think that the child could have quite a different personality in a good way.  I feel like I'm nearly there but still need to do some grieving.  I'm going through quite a bitter and jealous phase but that's all part of it I guess.  I never thought we'd be in a situation where we'd have to contemplate it not working out for us.  At the beginning of the journey I always assumed one of our cycles would work....


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Thank you for all the congratulations   This is officially the longest 2 weeks ever, I can't believe that it's only been 3 days since OTD it feels like 3 years! Nothing new to report though, still getting weird pains some AF like, some more pulling pains which I had with my last pregnancy so I'm taking that as a good sign that something is going on in there. Just hope there is something good to see on the screen on the 10th July (which is about 100 years away!).  

Bics - Your new wedding date is our 1st wedding anniversary! We got married on 12th August last year I can't tell you how happy it made me to see your new date   Good choice   It sound like your moving forward nicely now, I'm so glad you have a transfer date, roll on next Thursday xx

Flipper - I've been thinking about you today, hope you got some good news xx

Love to everyone xx


----------



## Flipper40

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for all your wishes today! They worked!!! I got my BFP today!! So excited and complete shock! Clinic emailed me the blood result in numbers so had to google to see what it meant! My coordinator is on holiday today so won't analyse until Monday. So POAS as well just to check and got a little line. My doc said it wouldn't show untill Sunday if I did a urine test so I was relived when it did! 

It really hasn't sunk in

Xxx


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Magic, so good to hear from you. Such a difficult time for you. I completely understand your position. Are you sure you can't convince your husband at least one more go with your own eggs before you look to switch to donor? I'm at the Lister, I love it there. Can I ask who your consultant is? I was told about 6 month wait for a DE match. Perhaps, my Dr was trying to lessen the blow. I'm still using my own eggs, just looking at alternative options if my next couple of cycles doesn't work. 
I really hope you still have the opportunity to use your own eggs. I find them to be very honest and open at the Lister. They never give me the hard sell and try to push 'extras' for me to buy. If they think you have no chance left with your own eggs they'll tell you. However, it may not happen in the next go, so I understand your thoughts about increasing your chances with DE. I feel for you, it's the most excruciating process. I wish you the best of luck. 

Butterfly, great to hear you are still going well and have your spirits up. I think this little one is here to stay. I'm so very happy for you and your husband. I can imagine how hard the wait will be until your scan. I look forward to hearing about it. 

CeCe, how are the three of you going? Yes, no time to waste, I'm 150 years old. Yes, I do need something to look ahead to and keep my hopes up. I'm no good having breaks between cycles, I just need to crack on and keep hoping the next one works. 

Just a quick one as I'm currently on a plane about to take off. Going to Prague, Krakow and Berlin for a week, the Pearl Jam tour continues! At least this medicated cycle allows me to be away and not have to go in for a scan. However, the Progynova pills must be the culprit for my constant and random bursting into tears. Particularly embarrassing in public. I'll cry over a toilet paper ad. 

Sorry if I missed anyone or didn't address everything, I can't scroll down and see what everyone has typed when responding on a phone. 

Love to all. xx


----------



## CEce40

Flipper that’s awesome news, you must be over the moon. Our little group is on a roll now, far better fortunes than last year. 2018 is ours. 

Kris, now this is getting serious. One pearl jam gig is cool, this boarders on stalking!! Enjoy


----------



## magicpillow

Flipper that's great news!  woo!
Thanks for the support ladies, you're all so lovely.  Kris, my husband is adamant this is our last cycle which is hard but I'm also half in agreement as I feel like I can't keep going on like this.  It's been nearly 6 years and he wants to just move on with life and stop being in limbo.  Having said that, I feel like I could have it in me to try one last own egg cycle.  I think donor is the sensible option given we can only do it once more as the odds are so much higher.  I'm so glad you've had a good experience at the Lister.  We were impressed when we went there last month.  I'm going to book in for my miscarriage testing and take it from there.  See if anything comes up from those tests....Lister said the waiting list for us would be about 9 months.  I'm not on it yet but may think about going on it soon.

It definitely is a tough process and I'm so jealous of my pregnant colleagues at work who haven't had to go through any of this heartache.  I'm having counselling at the moment and we have been talking about accepting the end of the journey is coming soon.  It's so hard to think that we may just end up childless as I'm not sure adoption is for us.  I just never thought it wouldn't work out.


----------



## magicpillow

Kris I meant to say our consultant is Dr Thum.


----------



## Kris76

Flipper, I missed your bit of news!!  That's wonderful.  Congratulations!!  How exciting.  Yes, it's all starting to happen for this group.  I just hope the good luck can extend to the rest of us.  Amazing. 

Haha, yes CeCe, definitely boarding on stalker.  How are you feeling?

Magic, yes I understand living in limbo and how hard that is. In that case, donor is definitely the way to go.  Look at these other wonderful ladies go with DE, incredible results. Dr Thum is a great Dr.  I am with James.  They all consult with each other anyway.  Yes, I get jealous with friends and colleagues that get pregnant so easily.  I recently had a friend tell me she got pregnant with her second child without even trying...they were being careful and avoiding sex during ovulation.  Can you believe that? Kills me.  Her first baby was a surprise as well. I have 3 other friends in the last year that got pregnant within 3 months of trying.  HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?

Counselling is great, you have to do it before DE as well. I know, I am with you, adoption is not for us either.  We too, didn't think we would ever be in this position. It is just so ****ty. 

Well I'm in Krakow now and I'm off to eat port knuckle as big as my head and wash it down with as much beer as I can fit in. 

Lots of love. 

xx


----------



## magicpillow

Go Kris!  Enjoy those beers.  
Yes I think I will probably come round to DE although I still have occasional wobbles when I think about how I've still got eggs, good AMH/FSH and all that malarkey.  I'm sure it'll all work out in my own time....  I hate it when friends get pregnant so easily - that must have been hard for you to hear about your friend.  I know someone who got pregnant in the first month of trying at 39 and 41.  Both easy pregnancies too and natural births.  So unfair.  I've heard of so many people recently between 39 and 42 who have got pregnant at the drop of a hat.  It's so hard.  I feel so bitter at the moment I even felt a bit annoyed at someone who got pregnant naturally, had a mc but then conceived again 3 months later. I should have felt sympathy about the mc but mainly felt jealous that she could try again whereas if I have a mc I have to recover for months and then pay thousands to put my body through hell again in an ivf cycle!
Anyway, rant over.  Am actually ok today but had to let that out!


----------



## Kris76

Hi Magic

Yes of course, that is absolutely understandable.  However, I do believe when you carry that baby, you won't care if it was from you egg or someone elses.  Yep, it is utterly unfair how some women can fall pregnant at the drop of the hat.  I don't get it. It is very normal to feel envious, I know I do.  My best friend in Melbourne, she is 6 months older than me.  She didn't have a period for about a year after her first child was born.  However, she managed to get pregnant with her second child the month after it returned.  Her first child she got pregnant with a month after she had a miscarriage. She tells me, 'it will happen for you', it got pregnant so easily and I want to hit her in the face. 
I know how hard it is to move on to DE after hoping and dreaming of having a biological child of your own. I struggled with it and went from, at the start of this process, no way, can't do it, to, I will do a couple more OE cycles and then I will move on to DE.  I don't even want the counselling that I would have to do for it. I just want the baby. I am still producing eggs, but I am accepting that they are just no good anymore. 

However, you may not fully come round to it until it has happened and you realise that you love that baby no matter what. I think the fear and upset will go away. For me, I can't imagine one women who has struggled and switched to DE, and has had that baby think, gee i really regret this. That is how I consoled myself.  My good friends sister had to use DE, the child is now 4 years old, my friend says that her family forget all the time that she came from DE.  I turned my thinking around, instead of constantly saying to myself and my OH, it won't be related to me.  I now say to myself, it doesn't matter if it's my egg or not, it will always be my baby. 

I hope I am not over stepping the mark.  I am not trying to discount your feelings.  I'm just hoping to show you that there can be another way to look at it.  As doing that is what brought me around.  Also, seeing the success of Syd, CeCe and Flipper, that also really spurs me on. 

Lots of love to you. 

xx


----------



## magicpillow

Thanks so much for that Kris as that really helps.  It's such a good way of looking at it and yes, the successes of the other ladies on here is a massive incentive.  I'm sure if I was lucky enough to have a pregnancy after everything we've been through I would be so over the moon and that would be the baby we were meant to have. Had a bit of a down day today as I'm finding it hard coping with pregnant colleagues at work.  I try not to let it affect me but some days I just don't want to see the bumps. Got a day off tomorrow so that'll cheer me up no end!  Hope everyone else is ok. x


----------



## Flipper40

Hi Ladies,

Magic I really feel for you it is such a hard decision. I was still producing my own eggs and it was devistating not to even be able to have the chance to try with my own eggs. But having a baby has been my life long dream and I desperately wanted to carry a baby and give birth. I know that by doing all that I don't even think about the egg. 

I also did some research and found out that do or babies often have traits and characteristics of the birth mother because the embryo takes on sake dna from the amniotic fluid. It was a funny feeling really. As soon as I had my embryos they felt like mine straight away.

One of my friends explained to me about his father who walked out on him when he was 3. He hasn't had much to do with him his whole life. He explained that it is easy to give someone your genetics but the man he is today has aboluyeky nothing to do with his father. My baby will receive so much more love than he ever did and that really confirmed to me that I was making the right choice. 

My bottom line was if I don't do this I will be childless and I could not cope with that at all!! It is so hard but believe me well well worth it and now I have a little miracle and am so happy.

Sending you loads of love xx

Kris how are you doing? I've been the same. There are 5 pregnant girls in my office and it breaks my heart every time I hear how they feel, pregnant by accident. One girl in my team didn't know until she was 12 months! I don't mind admitting I have had a good cry in the toilets a couple of times! How is pearl jam and the pork knuckle? I love the pork knuckle when I went to Hamburg!!  Sending you my positive vibes so you can be the next one to join the BFP club and really rooting for you xx

My clinic hasn't got a sonographer in on the 16th when I am due my scan so might have to delay. Have to call back next week. Fingers crossed!


----------



## Bics76

Hello all,

This is just a quickish one. I have been lying low and trying to get through the days till transfer, which is tomorrow. I’m nervous as anything, especially that my one remaining embie won’t survive the thaw but I’m trying to stay positive. 

Flipper- absolutely amazing news!!! I am so excited and happy for you. I was delighted to read your update 😊 

Magic - oh lovely. It’s so hard isn’t it? It’s difficult to know what to do when all you want is a much longer for baby. The decision to stop trying with your own eggs and go for DE is so hard, but I know you will make the decision that is best for your family and works for you. As Kris said, if you do go down that route, your baby will be a part of you and vice versa (After losing my son, I was told by a friend who had also suffered a stillbirth that her consultant said that when you are pregnant your baby’s dna remains in your body for ever. That gave me so much comfort, to think that my son is here with me, always. So any baby you carried would be inextricably linked to you biologically and of course emotionally. I’m sending you massive hugs ❤

Kris, I’ve bewn thinking of you lots. I hope that your journey to 15th is a smooth one and I have everything crossed that this time the ending is a happy one you so deserve. Let’s hope the universe cuts us both some slack huh? 

Cece and Syd- hope you’re feeling well. I need to add Flipper and Butterfly to that list now don’t I? 😊 it’s a pregnancy bonanza. Long may it continue. 

Butterfly- your message made me smile so much. 12th August was literally the only date that worked so it was meant to be. I am honoured that we’ll be sharing a wedding anniversary. Our stories are so similar it’s crazy. Sending huge hugs and hope the wait till your scan isn’t too awful and passes quickly. 

So sorry to anyone I’ve missed. My PMA is shot to bits so I’m ducking in quickly to send love and will be back soon xxx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Flipper - Huge congratulations on your BFP! 

Bics - Wishing you so much luck for transfer tomorrow. I was also told about my little girls DNA staying with me forever and like you I find some comfort in that. You have to hold on to anything that gives you a bit of comfort I've found, and anything that keeps them with us  

AFM - I had some spotting after going for a number 2 yesterday (sorry if TMI lol) but seems to have stopped today, so I'm hanging on in there. Can't believe it's still 6 days to my scan! It's just forever and I'm painfully aware that even if we see a heartbeat there is still so much that can go wrong. I'm envying you donor ladies now as my poor old eggs are just so high risk   I'm trying to not stress though as nothing I do or don't do can change anything and worrying doesn't help me or my little bean.

Cece & Syd - so glad you are progressing nicely - Syd can't believe you are 18 weeks already - nearly halfway there xx

Love to all xx


----------



## CEce40

Afternoon all, 

Bics, best of luck for your transfer today. Let us know how it goes

Butterfly, so glad everything is progressing for you. hope the next few days whizz by for you

Magic, if you have Netflix then check out a film called One More Shot. Its an American couple who decided to film their IVF journey. They had some disappointments along the way (like all of us) and had to consider using a donor. Along the way they got in touch with other couples who had built their families in unconventional ways and interviewed them. I found it really helpful, but be prepared to cry all the way through!

Kris, hope you're enjoying your travels. Pork knuckle sounds like a full on nausea fest for me!

Flipper, do you have a new date for your scan yet?

Syd, hope all good with you, did you manage to get your baby supplies before heading back home? 

I had an appointment with the midwife today to get booked in for the birth (what the hell??, early??) and start the ball rolling for everything else. I've been referred to a consultant specialising in twins and everything seem at bit real now. I've got a full on bump making an appearance and about to order some maternity clothes as I'm totally squeezing into all my normal gear. It'll probably look stupid with such a small bump, but at least I'll be comfy. I just can't take tight clothes in all this heat.


----------



## Flipper40

Evening guys,

How is everyone doing?

Bids I hope everything went well for you today! Congratulations on being PUPO!,

Butterfly glad everything is ok after your toilet scare!! Waiting for the scan feels like an eternity and I've still got agaes til mine!!

CEce can't believe it's 18 weeks already! Glad your doing well and beginning to make plans. It does make it all seem very real!! I watched one more shot too! It was really good, I heard the lady interviewed on the fertility podcast and watched it afterwards. Would definately recommend it.

Magic how are you doing? And Syd hope everything is going well.

All good here. Still no date for scan yet. The tiredness has now hit and today is the first day I have felt sick. Had my mid year review at work so pushed through and felt better when my mind was occupied.  Am hoping this isn't the build up to morning sickness as I am petrified if being sick!!


----------



## CEce40

Wooo flipper, slow down a sec, I’m only 9 weeks. It’s syd who’s up at the halfway point. I’m still plodding along in the first trimester.


----------



## Maggiephatcat

Hi ladies 

What a lovely, supportive thread this is.

Huge congratulations to those you've recently got their BFP 

Just a gentle reminder that there's a board dedicated to pregnancy chat, it's 'Pregnancy and Parenting after Infertility - Over 40's' and the link is:

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=164.0

Please be mindful to keep pregnancy chat to a minimum on the 'starting out' board as this can sometimes discourage new members, who are starting their journey from posting.

Thanks for your understanding and love and baby dust to all.

Maggie
Volunteer Moderator


----------



## Flipper40

Hey CEce, sorry about that,  I'm getting way too carried away with it all!! I promise I won't forget that again! 

Apologies Maggie, you make such a good point.

Xx


----------



## Bics76

Hello ladies,

Hope you’re all good and thanks for your lovely messages ❤

Well, I had transfer on Thursday and I was really relieved that our embryo survived the thaw. All seemed to go really well and I was feeling very positive. However, on Friday I had bad cramps for most of the day and also brown blood. Still having cramps and a bit of blood today. I’d like to convince myself it is implantation bleeding, but this has happened every month I’ve tried in the time since I lost my son - although I don’t think it’s been this early - and the brown blood ends up being a period, it just takes days and days to arrive and teases me that there is still some hope and that it’s implantation bleeding. I didn’t think it would happen with IVF. 

I had all day cramps and brown blood again yesterday and a little
bit of blood today and cramps. I was sobbing all day Friday. It just felt like, bloody hell, what’s going on - how am I back to my usual position just a day after transfer with a PGS normal embryo? I emailed my consultant who said that a bit of brown blood is ok (he didn’t say anything about the cramps though), but it’s hard to be positive when I’ve been down this road so many times before. I’m trying, but the waiting is driving me bananas and it will take all my will power not to test early and end the misery (let’s be real, it’ll definitely be earlier than OTD, but hopefully I can hold out till the end of the week). 

Anyway, more than enough moaning from me. My lovely husband-to-be has said that this doesn’t have to be the end, although I can’t see that we could afford to go again, so I’m not sure where this leaves us. But he made me feel a lot better bless him. 

Cece, Butterfly, Syd and Flipper, hope you’re all feeling well. 

Glad you got referred to a specialist CeCe. 

Butterfly and Flipper, hope time till scans goes as quickly as it can. 

Really hope the spotting has continued to stay away Butterfly (and big 🤗 back too; the thought of my little boy’s DNA being with me always does give comfort ❤). 

Kris, not long till transfer. Hope you’re doing ok and that you’ve had a lovely time on your travels. 

Magic, I’ve been thinking of you xx

I’m sorry for anyone I’ve missed and for the self indulgent message, but as you can see, I’m not really in a PMA kind of place right now (!) and I knew you ladies would understand. 

Love to all x


----------



## 7Percent

Hi ladies,
I've been following your posts for a while now and would like to be a part of this positive group. My DH and I got together in 1994  after years of being together he was keen to start a family but me being 8 years younger and selfish I wanted to wait. The year I turned 35 we booked our wedding and I had my coil removed. 2014 we started all the investigations into our fertility for it to be unexplained.
2015 was hell and I felt I couldn't go through any of this again but from the end of Nov 15 until now we have literally tried Everything to fall naturally 
Tomorrow will make it all seem real as I have my Prostrap injection and self-Injection lesson.
This time round I've been off the booze, lost weight and waiting on the acupuncture clinic getting back to me about appointments. Read some ladies talking about a hot water on the run up to EC.
Any advice you ladies can give me will be greatly appreciated as my eggs need all the help they can get 
Love to you all x


----------



## AngelJ

Hi 7Percent,

this forum is a goldmine of information and I am sure you will find all the support and information you could wish for.  What I would say now is you need to be as proactive as you can be, and fast.....

I am 42 and after a couple of early miscarriages / chemical pregnancies in 2015, then clomid, moved swiftly to IVF in 2016, first round failed june 2016, second round (aug 16) produced a son.  However I did a huge amount of reading these boards, and looking into what could improve my chances for me personally (and everyone is different...different issues etc etc)....  I am now back just starting another round of IVF and my response is much weaker at 42 than it was at 40.  So much lower odds of a positive outcome.  I try and see it as a long game, not expecting a single round to work....but if you plan to do a few it may happen over the course of this time.  I have gone to Reprofit in Czech rep. as it makes this way of doing things possible.  its much much cheaper than the UK.....

we have found PICSI has worked for us - as it was partially male factor issue, not just my age.  I take spirulina, maca powder and I'm eating lots of berries and fresh fruit, protein and trying to keep off the booze completely.....  there is very very full advice on this site though on supplements etc by people who know much more than me.....so if you have a good hunt through you will find what you are looking for.....

Best wishes,
A


----------



## 7Percent

Thanks Angelj
My first round of IVF got 8 eggs 5 fertilised 2 transferred none frozen. On the second night after transfer I was rushed into hospital in severe pain .. Kidney Stones !!!! What's the chances of that. Kept in for the next 5 days on morphine then started to bleed 
2nd IVF I was much more negative and fully expected a BFN
Tried clomid even the bloody turkey baster and there's only so long you can hang upside down for 🙈 
Googled the things you recommend and i see its all high protein. The diet I'm doing is high protein very low carb 
I'm taking Antioxidant Plus Coenzyme Q10 - Fish oils Omega 3 - Womans Formular- and DH on Men's Formular.
We are using GCRM Glasgow and it's costing a fortune so this really was our last hope 
I would definitely consider going abroad as Glasgow were keen for going the donor egg way for my age and when I said that we had discussed this and it was not an option for us he bluntly said I had little to no chance of success.    Positive thinking this time tho  Out of 100 42 year olds with a AMH of 2.5  7 have been successful 
Please let me be one of the 7 this time 
X


----------



## Kris76

Hi Ladies!

I'm back from holiday.  What a fun week.  I actually didn't think of IVF every second of the day. However, my holiday high was cut short yesterday when I went for my scan.  Despite the Pryognova and Synarel my lining was only at 7mm, which was exactly the thickness on the natural FET cycle.  That was massively disappointing, pumped full of drugs, that didn't make me feel great, along with mountainous lumps on my face for nothing.  They saw a 12mm follicle growing which shouldn't be there as I'm taking the synarel. They are not sure that I can proceed with this FET transfer.  I am going for another scan tomorrow and I will know more. Very annoying and waste of time if this cycle is cancelled. 

Bics, congrats on the transfer, however, the bleeding is understandably worrying. Have you had an update on that?  I hope it is just implantation bleeding. Thinking of you. xx

Butterfly, how are you feeling?  You should be due for your scan.  I hope all goes well with it. Fingers are crossed. 

CeCe, how did the midwife appointment go?  How very exciting that you get to start buying maternity clothes.  How are you feeling?

Flipper, how are you coming along?  Have you had a scan yet? 

Syd, just saying hello.  Have you gone back yet?  

7%, hi, wow, you have gone through a lot.  I know, this whole infertility business is so devastating. It certainly sounds like you are doing all you can to help your chances. As Angel said, everyone is different and we are on different protocols.  I can only say to try and be as healthy as possible, which you already are. If only we could take a magic pill to turn the clock back on our eggs.  I wish you the best of luck. 

Angel, sorry to here of your miscarriages. You are lucky that it has worked at least once with your son. I'm 42 and still hopeful that it will work.  Yes, it's a long game at this age.  I hope you have success with number 2.  

Anyway, I hope everyone has at least been enjoying the amazing weather. 

Lots of love to all. 
xx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Well I'm out I'm afraid   Had my scan today and should have been 6 + 4 but there was no sign of a pregnancy on the scan! Not even an empty sac. I felt like such a fraud lying there! I had a positive test on OTD and retested a week later after the spotting and got a darker line! I did think the lines weren't as dark as they should have been but it was definitely positive. I half expected to see an empty sac as the chances of my, "not great", "didn't quite make it to blast" embies making it were slim, but to have only a thickened lining to see was absolutely crushing.

I had a good snotty cry (CeCe you would be proud) but I am feeling pretty OK now. No idea what we can do now, nothing at the moment I suppose but try naturally when I've had my period (spotting now ironically, although that may be due to all the probing trying to see something on the scan). I think it will be DE if we can get the money together to try again. I just can't carry on with such a low chance of success,  and so much risk of it failing. After losing my little girl, I just can't do more loss.

One thing I am glad about is that it wont really be a miscarriage, just a heavy period from my mega lining. That does make it easier to deal with emotionally. It's still   though!

Angel & 7% - Welcome   Sorry to be so negative, but it's been a crap day. Angel - What is the difference between PICSI and ICSI? 

Bics - Hope you are OK. Has the spotting stopped? I also get red/brown spotting anywhere from day 22-26 which carries on and always ends up as my period. No one can tell me why and all the doctors ignore it when I tell them, but I'm sure it's hormonal and both IVF cycles with the progesterone I haven't had it so that makes me even more sure that my hormone are letting me down. I'm really hoping that it's implantation and will settle down for you. I'm sending my love xx

Flipper - Hope you are on track for your scan, and Syd & CeCe - hope your bumps are coming along nicely. So good to have some positivity on here, we need it.

Love to all


----------



## Flipper40

Oh Butterfly, I just read your post and shed a tear too. I am so sorry to hear your news did they say why you got a couple of positive tests? What a totally rotten day. Hang in there, do something comforting and then do some research about your next options. It really is such a tough journey sending you a big hug.

A huge welcome 7% and Angel great to have you with us this is such an amazing group. I've never heard of PICSI? 

Bics how is it going has the spotting stopped? I had it for 24hours and think mine was caused by the pessaries. 

Syd and CEce how are things. Are you feeling ok and have you bought anything yet?

AFM calling the clinic tomorrow to see if I can have a scan on the 16th so should know more then. The wait feels like forever xx


----------



## 7Percent

Thanks for the warm welcome ladies
Butterfly I'm gutted for you. Life can be so unfair 😢


----------



## CEce40

Oh Butterfly, no! You must be devastated, I'm so so sorry. You've definitely been through the wringer and really deserve to come out the other end soon. You're incredibly strong, I have no doubt you will get to your goal, someway and sometime. The goalposts may move and your expectations may change, but you'll get there. The DNA thing is both beautiful and heartbreaking. The way you and Bics talk about your babies is so special x  

Bics, how are you getting on? I've got my fingers crossed for you. You must be close to OTD. I really hope the spotting/cramping has calmed down, all the second guessing is so exhausting, hang in there. 

Kris, WTF! How did the second scan go? I really hope you can increase the drugs or something so you don't have to cancel. What on earth is the follicle doing - where was that bugger when you needed it! So glad you had a brilliant time away and got some much needed relief from all things needle related. Embrace those mountainous lumps, I feel like a teenager gluesniffer, I'll join you in the park with a can of stella.

Welcome Angel and 7%. I'm not sure I can help with any tips to improve chances. There are so many stories of this, that and the other. My philosophy was that I would do whatever I needed to do so that I wouldn't look back and feel guilty that I could have done more. For me that wasn't very much. I did a few different things each cycle, but the outcome was always pretty much the same so no great miracle cures from me, I'm afraid. I think the main thing is having a clinic that you trust and have faith in. Good luck. 

Flipper, did you manage to get your scan booked?

Is everyone gutted about the football? I love Southgate and am very happy with the reinvention of the wastcoat.


----------



## Flipper40

Hi Bics, how are you getting on? Have you tested yet? Thinking if you!

Butterfly hope your looking after yourself and taking it easy!

Kris how are you doing any news yet?

CECe my scan is booked for Monday woop woop!

I have had a dramatic few days and am exhausted! I was driving to work and someone crashed in to the back of me on the M25! I then got really bad cramps and they didn't go away all morning so a colleague took me to A&E. I waited 9 hours to be examined by gynie which was totally rediciulous!! Anyway scan was all good but too early to see anything but dicots said no damage been done. Then I woke up this morning and was bleeding which scared the life out of me. Am hoping it was the ultrasound scan that has argrivate things. I think it has stopped now so feeling a bit happier now. Thank god my scan is Monday so I can check things out properly! I just can't believe I get this far and then this happens!


----------



## Butterfly1976

Flipper - Sorry to hear about your accident, that's stress you just don't need! It's not unusual to bleed a bit after an internal scan so try not to worry too much, I know it's easier said than done though. I don't think the sonographer knew why I'd had positive tests but no sac to be seen, we have a review with the consultant on 7th August so maybe he will have some idea as to what happened. 

CeCe - Thank you, I keep waiting for our luck to change, but no sign of it yet  

Kris - How's it going hun? Hope that lining is playing ball and you don't have to cancel, and just what is that follicle playing at?!

Bics - Really hope you are OK, I'm thinking of you x

7% - Unfair is the word, I wish I had a pound for every time I've said it, we could afford another round then  

AFM - AF arrived in full force this morning which I'm kind of glad about, I really didn't want to have to wait a week or so to get this cycle over with. Can't believe that it's only 2 days since I thought I was pregnant, doesn't seem real now. I'm going to focus on getting my body back and hopefully lose some of the weight I've put on since my pregnancy with my little girl. It looks like we are back to trying naturally for now which DH is pleased about at least. What with all the drugs and pesseries he hasn't had much love lately bless him. 

Love to all you fab ladies


----------



## Bics76

Hello all,

Oh Butterfly, I am catching up and I am so very sorry my lovely. I was choked reading your post. Life is so unbelievably cruel sometimes. When the hell is the universe going to cut you some slack? I am sending you the biggest hug and so much love ❤ I’m glad that AF has come so you can get past this horrible and painful cycle although I know it’s the last thing you wanted. Trying naturally for a bit sounds like a good plan. That’s my plan B too, as it makes me feel like I am doing something. Most of all just take good care lovely. Millions of hugs xx 

Kris, I’m so sorry to hear about your cycle. I really hope that the scan went ok and you’ve had some positive news/that they have a plan for you? 

7% and Angel, hi  ladies 👋. You poor ladies have both been through an awful lot, I felt for you both so much reading your posts ❤ You are totally in the right place. These ladies are amazing and have carried me through all the worry and stress of ivf and have given me really great advice (I wouldn’t even have got to collection without their advice about getting my follicles going when my meds weren’t working). 

Cece, I love your posts they always make me smile! I’m absolutely gutted about the football. I was caught up in the wave of thinking it would finally happen (also loving the waistcoats!). What you said about me and butterfly and our precious babies was so lovely. Thank you ❤

Flipper, you poor love, that sounds horrendous! Glad you’re ok after the crash and hope the time to the scan passes quickly got you to set your mind at rest. 

Syd, thinking of you xx 

Magic, how are you? I’ve been thinking of you lots x 

AFM, the bleeding has stopped now but I’m on constant watch. I still have terrible constant cramps though. In a fit of pique, and mainly because I couldn’t stand just sitting around waiting for the inevitable,
I tested on Wednesday (too early really, at 5dp5dt). It came up with a faint positive on a FRER and thinking it would fade later in the day (as has always happened before) I did 2 more later which were the same. I tested yesterday and today and I have hardly any line on ICs but it’s showing on the FRER. I have had this so much over the last 2 years - the bleeding, cramps and positive test followed by a negative test that day or a couple of days later. This is the furthest I have got to (I’m 8dp5dt now) but it has always been a chemical. I’m feeling pretty anxious that this will end up being the same and every time it’s a positive I just think, “for now...” but I’ll just have to keep testing and hope (I’ll be bankrupt!). Tonight is showing as positive again but the cramps are bad so that’s worrying. OTD is Monday so let’s see.

Love to all xxx


----------



## Bics76

ps, sorry my post makes no sense timing wise as I am ahead of myself and thinking it’s friday already 🙄 Wishing the days away!


----------



## Kris76

Oh Butterfly, I'm so sorry!! I'm devastated for you.  I was talking about you all with my OH the other night and how I hope that we can all get our happy ending. It's so unfair.  I wish I could say something to you that is remotely comforting. I'm gutted that you have had another blow.  I hope your follow up can shed some light on how this happened. Absolutely, keep trying naturally, we still do.  I always think, you just never know. Be good to yourself Butterfly, thinking of you and sending you much love. 

Flipper, wow, how awful.  Thank goodness everything is ok. Can't believe you had a 9 hour wait. I bet the bleeding was scary, I'm glad to hear that it has now stopped. Good luck with your scan on Monday.  It sounds like everything is as it should be. 

Bics, how nerve wracking for you.  Great sign that you got even a faint positive, not long until you will know for sure. I really hope you get your positive result. My fingers are crossed for you. 

CeCe, haha laughed out loud at that.  Sure, Ill bring the Stella. Yep, we were gutted about the football. I hosted it and ended up drinking too many aperol spritzs and g&ts to get through the disappointment.  Wasn't feeling great the next day. It's been a while since I was hungover. So I lay on the couch watching box sets and not doing any work. 

I had my second wanding and all was well.  Lining was at 7.8mm and triple lined which is absolutely fine for transfer.  The drugs may not have got it around 9mm, however, it has kept it consistent.  On the natural FET, I got to 7.4mm but it thinned to 6mm before transfer. My follicle has stayed put.  I'm good to go for transfer on the 18th. I start the white bullets today and clexane injections tonight.  Not looking forward to that, considering it is just experimental.  We'll see how this round goes, since it's number 5 I'm not holding much hope. I will transfer my last 2 good ones this round. I really don't know how many more rounds I have left in me before I have to switch to DE. I am over living life in IVF limbo. 

Hello to everyone else.  xxxx


----------



## 7Percent

Flipper  good luck with your scan today x
Bics  test day !! good luck X


----------



## Bics76

Hello all, 

Kris, I'm so glad to hear that your cycle is going ahead on Wednesday. I will have absolutely everything crossed for you and I'm so hoping number 5 will be lucky for you. Hope the clexane is going ok? I am having that together with intramuscular progesterone at the moment and the latter is a bloody awful. muy poor DH is wincing while doing the injections. 

Flipper, I hope your scan went ok today

Butterfly, I have been thinking of you so much lovely. You have been through so much  and I am shattered that you have had more to contend with. Sending so much love x

Sending hugs to the rest of you lovely ladies. 

AFM, i had a positive test today. I can't quite believe it and you would not believe how many tests I have taken this week (twice a day since 10dp5dt to see whether it was going to be another chemical. That has made me realise quite how crap one steps cheapies are compared to a FRER or even a clearblue). I have confirmed with the clinic today but it all feels prettty unreal. I guess I can't face any more disappointment, so I am taking it one small step at a time. I'm hoping I can get to the scan in a couple of weeks. Of course I'm absolutely delighted and shocked but I don't feel brave enough to get excited yet xx


----------



## Impulse76

Omg bics  cogratulations that's brilliant news.

Well I am officially PUCO with 2 embryos.  They advised me to only put 1 back due to the fast I have placenta previa and a few other issues last pregnancy but they let us decide.  I thought what if they don't put the one back who would implant and the other didn't so I didn't want to take the chance.  They were not quite blastocyst stage but the stage before so fingers crossed.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## Bics76

Thank you Impulse x

Ah exciting that you are PUCO! When is OTD? If I had had 2 embryos I would have done exactly the same as you. There nothing worse than wishing you had done a cycle differently. I have absolutely everything crossed for you xx


----------



## Impulse76

Thanks bics. It's Sunday 29th. Let the wait begin. Just chomping on my pineapple core now 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## Bics76

Hope the time until 29th whizzes past Impulse 

I didn’t get around to having pineapple core (bought some pineapples which just whimped  out in the heat) but I did eat way too many Brazil nuts 🥜 x keeping everything crossed x


----------



## Kris76

Yay Bics   that's wonderful news!! I am over the moon for you. I knew this had to be a good one.  This is very exciting!!  I hope the wait for your scan goes by quickly.  I understand your hesitation, however, i hope you allow yourself some enjoyment. My consultant told me the intramuscular progesterone are not pleasant, so I said no to that.  The clexane stings. 

Thanks for your well wishes.  Transfer tomorrow and I don't feel anything. It has taken it's toll on me mentally. I never thought I would be at round 5. Its my last 2 good ones so, I hope they work but I'm not expecting them too.  I can't bear to be excited and have hope, the let down is too great. 

Love to everyone else. xx


----------



## magicpillow

Bics congrats!!  Amazing news. Keeping everything crossed for you going forwards.  I had the intramuscular injections last cycle.  They worked well for me though it took about 6 months for my backside to recover!

Kris I hope everything goes well tomorrow.  It's hard to feel excited after so many knock backs.  I really hope this is it for you. 

Good luck with your 2ww impulse!

I'll go back a few pages to catch up and reply to others tomorrow. I'm still in a quandary about whether to do own eggs or donor eggs for our last cycle.  I've been quite stressed about it all and getting terrible headaches.  My sensible head says to go for donor egg as it gives us way more chance but it's hard to let go of own eggs when I still produce them and have never had any other issues.  I'm 42 next month though so I have to keep reminding myself of that.  I think if it wasn't for the donor sperm, I'd find it easier but it's the lack of genetic link to either of us and how the child would find that.  Hoping eventually I'll come to a decision that I can feel at peace with.  I think what's stopping me from jumping ahead with donor is to think there is no going back and I really will never have a genetic child. ….


----------



## Bics76

Ahh, thank you Kris!   I am having little tiny waves of excitement, but then I catch myself and say "steady". I'm mainly doing a slow and steady wait and see approach, which feels easier to manage right now. The time is passing excruciatingly slowly though. 

I will be thinking of you today and wishing you so much luck. I can't imagine the toll that all the cycles have had, but it only takes one and I'm hoping these two are it! It is surely your time for some sunshine. (I think you passing on the intramuscular injections was a good plan btw, I fear my bum will never forgive me!). 

Magic, thank you so much x 
Oh, lovely, I felt for you so muich reading your message. It's such a hard decision, and it's even harder when you are still producing eggs. I'm sure that you will reach the decision that is the right one for you and your husband. I'm 42 as well, so I totally get it. 

Sending hugs and love to everyone else xxx


----------



## CEce40

Bics, that's awesome. I really, really hope this works out for you. Hope the wait for the first scan is not too excruciating for you. Hibernating would be a great option at times like this, miss all the hot, sticky weather, all the terrible pant checking, the symptom spotting and the waiting, just wake up on the day of the scan then curl up and go back to sleep again till the next one. What bliss that would be!


Kris, best of luck today, this has to be the one. I had 5 cycles (4 fresh OE and 1 DE) and the 5th seems to be my lucky one. I never had any FETs. We only had 1 that was good enough to freeze and we had so little hope in it we left it in the freezer. We'll go back to it if this pregnancy works out, but it will be more of a door closer on OE rather than anything else. 


Flipper, how did you get on with your scan? All good I hope, fingers crossed for you. 

Magic, I feel for you. Big decision to make. You don't need to rush into anything. Give yourself some time, you'll work out what to do in the end. 


Hi to everyone else, hope you're all coping well with the heatwave. I'm not built for it. I have a constant sweat tache on a beatroot face. I'd make a great character in a Guess Who game! We went camping at the weekend - who goes in a tent in this weather? I felt like a jacket potato. It was a boil in the bag experience I do not wish to repeat. Add in the constant tourchlight trips to the toilet block in the middle of the night and you get a very sleep deprived, bloated, waddling lady. I currently resemble Violet Boregard post troffing the blueberry chewing gum. Rain dances everynight please people, help me out here!


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Magic I really feel for you.  I know how excruciating this is. The only compromise I can think of is that if you decide to go DE for your last round, it takes 6-9 months wait time for a match.  In the meantime you can go mad trying naturally, especially since you don't have any problems, you just never know it could work, it's just a numbers game.  If it doesn't, you may be more at peace going DE.  I do hope that you can find peace  with whatever decision you make.  i will be sending you lots of love.  

Bics, that is exactly how I would be too, get excited and then reign myself in. I think this little one is going to be just fine. 

CeCe, you make me laugh.  Yes, way too hot to be camping, you summed it up with boil in a bag. Well, I for one love this heatwave. It's about time we had a decent summer.  Having grown up in Australia, I am right in my element.  I'm like a lizard on a rock soaking up the sun. 

I had my transfer today.  It went well as can be.  One embryo fully expanded and the other 'revived'..for want of a better word, I can't remember what term they used, to 60%.  I started to crumple, however, the embryologist said it was absolutely fine and they still transfer them as it is a viable embryo. They both went in.  My consultant did the transfer and I quite fancy him, so I was a bit self conscious sitting there spreadeagled while he chats to my vagina waiting for the embryologist to get ready. Thank God, I was procrastinating doing work yesterday and I epliladyed unsightly hair from my legs, butt crack and gave myself a brazilian. Otherwise I would've died of embarrassment.  So now the 9 day wait.  I am have started back at the gym and back to weight training, at the moment I can barely lift my arms up to tie my hair up. 

It has made me starving, so I am off to open up every cupboard and hope that it will be miraculously be filled with delicious food. 

Love to all. xxx


----------



## magicpillow

Ah Kris congratulations on your embryo transfer!  I'm really hoping this is your time.  You've done so well to get to this point again.  I know which consultant you're referring to - very dishy!  Hoping your embryos stick nicely. Thanks for your kind words.  Unfortunately we can't conceive naturally as my husband has azoospermia so we are using sperm donor for IVF.  I think that's my main issue with going for donor egg is that it's a double donation situation with no genetic link to either of us.  I have to say though that genes are becoming less important and perhaps I don't actually want a child inheriting my stressy nature!    We can still keep trying though as you never know if one tiny swimmer might make it through!

Cece glad you survived the camping.  I laughed out loud at boil in the bag!  This summer I've discovered anti chafing knicker shorts and they have been a total life saver in that I can now wear skirts and dresses!  Off topic a bit there but I love them!


----------



## Syd72

So sorry for the radio silence ladies, not quite sure where the past few weeks has gone.  I'm still in the UK at the mo, heading back to HK in a couple of weeks.

Magicpillow, when I decided to opt for donor eggs I actually felt a bit relieved the child wouldn't inherit some of my less pleasant personality traits!  Love the sound of anti chafing knicker shorts.  Just read further back and seen your dilemma, so sorry.  I don't have any words of advice, had this round not worked I would definitely have wanted to go DD but there's no way my OH would have agreed.  I just really hope you can come to a decision you're completely at peace with.

Kris, can't believe you're transferred again already, I've been away longer than I thought!  The image of the dishy consultant chatting to your vagina really made me laugh.  Wishing you so much luck.

Cece, so much about your post made me laugh (sorry).  I'm not a fan of camping in any weather and especially not when pregnant, not least because of all the night time toilet trips, as you say!  Remind me how far along you are now?  I really need to have a proper read back and catch up on everything.

Bics, huge congratulations!  That is fantastic news.  And yes, cheapies are AWFUL.

Butterfly, I'm absolutely gutted for you.  That is a fear I'm sure we all have, going to a scan and seeing nothing, I'm so so sorry.  Desperately hoping for a natural miracle for you.  

I'm fine, still exhausted and feeling sick a good part of each day.  Apparently the second trimester burst of energy is a myth...  Had my 20 week scan last week and everything looked great with the baby.  My cervix isn't quite as long as they'd like (who knew) so have another cervix check next week to see if I need a stitch.  They've put me back on progesterone suppositories (lovely) as that supports the cervix, back on the aspirin as that can help prevent pre-eclampsia which is more of a risk at my advanced age and the doctor here in the UK wants me back on clexane from 28 weeks given I've had a blood clot in the past so in her books that's enough to get me back on it.  Will have to discuss with my doctor when I get back to HK.  Apart from that all good 

Welcome to the new ladies and hi to anyone I've missed.  Really have to get back to work now!


----------



## Kris76

Magic, I'm so sorry, where's my head.  Of course, you have previously said that.  I got a bit excited with my grand plan for you. Completely understand the struggle, made that much harder by the fact there is no right or wrong answer. I guess, if I were in your shoes I would view it in terms of which option would give me the greatest chance of success. I hope you can naturally come to your own decision. 

Hi Syd, nice to hear from you.  So glad to hear that you are doing well...not so great about the sickness though. Can't believe you are at 20 weeks already. That's a new one for me about the cervix. Sounds like an easy fix though. The fun with the injections doesn't seem to stop during pregnancy then. Enjoy the rest of your time in the UK. 

Nothing to report on this end. Just taking it easy. Trying not to eat my emotions. 

Butterfly, I hope you are looking after yourself. I've been thinking of you. Sending you lots of love. x

Big love to Bics, Cece, Impulse and 7%. xx


----------



## Flipper40

Hi ladies, lovely to hear all your updates.

Sorry for the radio silence I have had a rotten two weeks!! 

Last week someone crashed in to the back of my car in traffic and I started having bad stomach cramps and was taken to A&E. After waiting 9 hours I finally had a scan and everything was OK. The next morning I had a Brown bleed and was worried but that turned to spotting. They had shingles at work so I wasn't allowed in anyway. 

Had my 6 week scan in Monday and all was well, 1 baby and strong heart beat was so relieved and happy. The next day I had a massive red bleed at work and bad cramps. Back to A&E I went and after 5 hours was told they were too busy to see me and come back the next day. So I went to my local hospital who saw me at 1am and scanned me later that day. All ok with baby but was very emotional as I had prepared myself for the worst!!

Now taken some time off work to rest and recover. Worried that I might have been very doing it so now going to take things a bit easier! 

Kris congratulations on your ET and bring PUPO keeping e erg thing crossed.

Syd welcome back and great to hear all going well.

Bics a huge congratulations- fantastic news

Hope everyone else is doing well and enjoy the weekend xx


----------



## miamiamo

Flipper40 - I am sorry to read about your experiences, and I am happy everything is fine with you.


----------



## Kris76

Hi Flipper, my God how frightening for you. What a rollercoaster for you. Did they say what caused the bleeding?  I would've had a breakdown. I am so glad to hear that everything is ok. 

Not too much going on my end PUPO wise. I feel like it hasn't worked though. Out of my 5 cycles, the one time that it did initially take, I got sore boobs and didn't with the other cycles.  No soreness this cycle either.  Still have a week to test but not holding my breath.

Hope everyone else is well. xx


----------



## 7Percent

Hi everyone 
Question ladies. Has anyone done a 2 day transfer?
Having a low AMH there’s so many hurdles to jump before transfer day however I had 3 eggs collected on Tuesday. Wednesday all 3 fertilised. Thursday Bert (embryo) a 5 cell. Bob doing as he should but she didn’t give a number of cells and Bailey is the underdog embryo who in some cases they’re the ones that overtake and get to blast. Not holding much hope for Bert as the cells are meant to multiply evenly.
8th August for blood test but on previous cycles I’ve never got past a week then the bleeding starts.
Flipper  has everything settled down now after your traumatic few days 
Impulse how you feeling now, only 2 more sleeps
Kris  I hope your boobs are sore now 
How everyone else is well x


----------



## Kris76

Hi 7
I’ve done a 3 day transfer, never heard of a 2 day transfer. Fab that they all fertilised, that’s good news. So you’ve had them put back in already? How many did you transfer? I guess the clinic figures that they are better off in than out. I wish you the best of luck with them. I hope they stick. You go for a blood test rather than pee on a stick? I hate peeing on a stick the disappointment of not seeing a double line is crippling. 

No sore boobs for me unfortunately. I didn’t get the double line. That is round 5 gone. I’m so devastated, even though I was expecting a negative result. That was Friday, my OH was meant to go out for work drinks to celebrate his new role but he came home with flowers and 2 pints of Haargan Daz ice cream. Bless him. 
I’m regretful about allowing my Dr to convince me to do a suppressed round as God knows when my period will come back, it was originally due on the 18th. I did express to him that I wasn’t comfortable with it. We have a trip to the US planned for the 24th August and my OH suggested we cancel it so I can be here to cycle again but I’m not going to do that. I’m sick of putting my life on hold and revolving everything around cycling. I will go and have a great time and cycle when I come back. I know I’m getting on and don’t have time to waste, I’m exhausted. I’ve done 5 cycles in 7 months. I have also decided to go on the DE wait list but I will continue to cycle in the meantime, I’ll see which comes to fruition first. At this stage, I don’t care which one it is, I just want it to be over with one way or the other. 

Flipper, CeCe, Butterfly, Syd, Bics and anyone else I have missed, I hope you are all well. Xx


----------



## 7Percent

Aw Kris  this is heartbreaking to read I’m so sorry.
Your quite right to get away and to try and take your mind off things. It’s a tough time for both of you but what a wee gem getting you flowers and ice cream to cheer you up.
Yes, your exactly right they said it’s better getting them back in their own environment. I was offered thur or Friday for transfer but the Thursday was easier to reorganise work commitments. I said if it was better to wait till the Friday I’d make it work but she said day 2 or 3 would make no difference. Obviously day 4/5 they would have a better idea what eggs would make it to blast but in my age bracket the statistics are now saying they stand a better chance going back. As they’re not holding much hope for me they advised putting all 3 back as chances are apparently better 🙏🏽
I was given a second trigger shot of Ovitrelle  I had to turn it 8 clicks and inject any time today as it’s meant to help implantation. Had a McDonalds after transfer ,working my way through pineapples and keeping my feet warm.
Any other tips would be greatly appreciated 
Hope everyone else is good x


----------



## magicpillow

Kris I'm so sorry to hear this.  How utterly gutting for you.  It just sucks.   Good to go ahead with your trip as you need some downtime.  You've been through so much treatment wise.  I'm still exhausted and my last cycle was in December.  If you go again, will it be a fresh cycle or do you have any frozen embryos left?  Sorry it's been bad news again. 

Sounds like you've got things covered 7Percent.  I don't know if I can think of any more things to do.  Keep those feet warm!  Really hoping it all goes well for you.  

Hope you're ok Flipper - what a scary experience lovely.  Take care x

I'm still going round in circles about next steps.  Very anxious and almost making myself feel ill with it all.  One moment I'm almost ready to go on the donor waiting list and then I start thinking about a last go with own eggs again either at the Lister or maybe trying Zita West.  Then I think about the odds at 42 and go back to donor again as it gives the best chance.  I might have my amh, FSH etc done again maybe to at least see where I'm at.  I even thought about Team Miracle in Cyprus for tandem cycle but then I think most people who do that end up using the donor embryos anyway as it doesn't work with own eggs.  I'll get there in the end....slowly slowly!!


----------



## Bics76

Kris, 

I am so very sorry lovely. I was heartbroken to read your update.  It is totally unfair that you have been through so much this year. I was hoping so much that this would be the cycle for you. You are doing the right thing by having a break with your hubby (who sounds amazing) and then starting again.  


I will come back properly later today to all you lovely ladies (and thanks so much for your messages). I just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking of you Kris. 


bics xx


----------



## Syd72

Kris I'm so sorry.  I think going ahead with the holiday is a great plan, you've put your body through a lot and the break can only be a good thing.  I think going on the donor list can only be a good thing too.  I can't remember if you've had a hysto?  I'm going to do my usual pushing for Serum but maybe it's worth seeing them just for a hysto - they're so much more thorough than the UK - lots of ladies do that who are cycling elsewhere.

Flipper what an absolute nightmare, I'm so glad everything is ok.  How are you feeling now?

7percent, I've heard of people doing 2 day transfers.  I don't know how old you are but there's a log of thinking that an earlier transfer is better for us older ladies.  The only round that has worked for me was a 3 day transfer.  No tips really other than keep moving - nothing strenuous but you don't want to be sitting around all day, you want to keep the blood flow going.  Warm feet is good.  I also had a shot of ovitrelle the day after transfer on my successful round.

Magic, maybe you should just go on the donor waiting list whilst you decide?  Doesn't mean you have to go through with it but takes one immediate decision away.  If you really feel you want to try again with own eggs you should - 42 is still young enough.

No news here.  Cervix hadn't gotten any shorter at my last scan (!), doctor said they probably wouldn't do the stitch at this stage anyway, so close to viability day.  It doesn't always work and can actually bring on labour if they pierce the sac so will just keep taking the progesterone and hope all stays ok.

Hi to everyone else.


----------



## Tootles

Hi Ladies 

It's been yonks since I visited the site and wow, what a lot has happened! Some flipping brilliant news which is fabulously uplifting and I'm absolutely chuffed to bits to read.  Gutted to read where things haven't worked out which is just utter utter turd.  It gets no easier or less upsetting and still makes me wish I could kick fertility problems very hard, square on in the knackers.  

After having a huge paddy about round three failure, I took some time out to cry, go a bit (VERY) nuts, have some fun without fear of cocking up injections or pesseries or supplements or endless appointments for brave nurses to go probing around in my fun cave, and then start the dreaded process of deciding whether to try yet again, go for DE or just give up and accept life without kids.

For a few months, I stopped all the meds, did everything the clinic told me not to, and actually enjoyed life free of IVF, had some good old hanky panky without any panic about ovulation, optimal fertility positions or whacking a pillow under my pelvis for half an hour afterwards. And guess what?  I seem to have become that urban myth, that annoying cliche, that lucky mare....I'm just over 6 weeks preggers.  It's ridiculously early days, and after 3 miscarriages I've got a long way to go, but at least this time I didn't fork out £7k for the privilege.  

I wanted to share my news because when I read things like this on here it gave me so much hope which was very much needed at 3am while sobbing into my pineapple juice. I'm a very unremarkable, average 42 year old (soon to be 43) woman who had a lot of fun in her 20's and 30's, is often stressed with work, and who found the right chap at 35 but had just about given up on the dream.  I don't have the prize yet; far from it. Scan on Friday with Prof Quenby and a lot of blood tests and all that shizzle to go through, but I'm preggers.  Fingers, toes and everything else crossed that this ends well and hoping so much for more good news for everyone who is going through the cack that is infertility xx


----------



## CEce40

Kris, this sucks. I'm so sorry. Devastated for you, but I know you'll get there in the end. You're a strong 'un, I know you'll beat this infertility [email protected] Hang in there and have an amazing booze fuelled holiday. 

Tootles, welcome back, babe. F-ing awesome news! You're the infertility unicorn and you totally deserve it. Fingers crossed for your scan. 

Flipper, sounds scary, glad the scan was okay. How's the resting going? 

Magic, sorry you're still going round in circles. Sounds like you're not ready to make a decision yet. Don't push yourself, there's enough pressure in this lark without piling some more on. You'll know what to do when the time is right. 

7 percent, congrats on the transfer and fingers crossed for you. 

Syd, yay to your non-shrinking cervix! have you got all your bits before heading home? 

I'm 13 weeks on Thursday and have the 'big' scan tomorrow. Quite nervous and feeling a bit like we can't be lucky enough to have both babies still going strong. Although, then I look down, spy my huge belly and think it's either 2 or I've swallowed a bowling ball. We'll see. 
Thank god the weather has broken. I've never been so happy to see rain. I may have migrated to the south, but I'm a total northerner, we're not built to see so much of this big yellow thing!


----------



## Syd72

Tootles - AWESOME news, I'm so so pleased for you!  So scan tomorrow?  Have literally everything crossed for you.  And loving "fun cave" 

Cece, also everything crossed for you tomorrow, no reason for anything to have gone wrong, can't wait to hear.

Big days tomorrow ladies!!

I'm heading back to Honkers next week, 35+ degrees and 90% humidity, yay...  Think I've done all my shopping for the first 3 months, just still need to get the crib but that can be shipped.

xxx to everyone.


----------



## CEce40

hey Syd, good work on the shopping. We're slowly trying to get our head around what we might need for twins - a new house seems preferable! 90% humidity, how do you survive? I'd be perma-frizz and swollen ankles. 

Our scan was yesterday. Everything was perfect and cooking away nicely. The bubba's were spooning, either that or they were breaking into the 'Ooops up side your head' dance (obviously got their mamma's moves!). So I guess the twin thing is really happening. Couldn't be happier or more frightened!

Good luck tomorrow, Tootles


----------



## Syd72

Sorry Cece, getting my days mixed up, so happy that everything looked good.  Two of the girls I cycled with at Serum in Jan are expecting b/g twins


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Thanks for your words, it really helps and means a lot. 

7% how are you feeling so far? My acupuncturist, always tells me to keep my belly warm. However, with this weather it’s hard not to. My fingers are crossed for you. 

Helllooooooooooooo Tootles! So great to hear from you, I was wondering about you. A massive congratulations!! You are the fertility unicorn as CeCe says. That is such incredible news. Wow, you’ve blown me away and have re-sparked hope in me and my OH. Maybe it was your whinnie the poo nightie that got you all in the right mood  . I’m delighted for you. I hope your scan goes well. I also hope you stay in touch. We miss you! I was going to say, miss your banter, I never use that word and realised I’ve watched too much Love  Island. I also now tell ppl they’re a melt and muggy, haha it’s hysterical, where do they come up with this stuff? 

CeCe, how adorable. I’d love to see that scan picture. Do you get the fancy 3D pictures? So glad everything is on track. These bambinos are meant to be. Are you going to find out the sex? Sorry, however, I’m delighted the hot weather has returned. I can’t get enough of it. CeCe, we bought a damn house in Feb in the hope that this would’ve worked by now. Doesn’t look like we’ll be needed the space, feel free to move in to it. 

Syd, well done you on doing most of your shopping. Good luck coping in that humidity, at least there is air con there unlike here. I haven’t had a hysto, Lister don’t feel that I need one. Ha, I know you love to wave Serums flag. However, we just don’t see ourselves cycling outside of the UK. Especially if we end up using DE, we agree that we would want to give the child the option to find where they came from. Hope you stay cool. Enjoy putting the nursery together. 

Bics how are you feeling, hope everything is going well on your end. 

Butterfly, I hope you are well. Have you thought about what you will do next? 

Magic, my heart is breaking for you. I understand how you must be tying yourself in knots and changing your mind. If I can be absolutely straight with you, the odds are it’s more likely not to work than work using your own eggs. At our age, we have about a 28% chance, 70% that it won’t work. I don’t think testing your AMH and FSH will change that. I’m 42 and have managed to get 10 eggs to blast so far, (on only one working ovary, so I have decent AMH) all great quality, yet every single one of those 10 were chromosomal abnormal. I know we are all different. If you only have one cycle left, I think you have to go with what is going to give you the best odds. Otherwise you have to rely on pure luck for the next round with your own eggs to work. I really do feel for you Magic. 

AFM I had a follow up yesterday. A different consultant as mine wasn’t available. I loved the consult, she was straight down the line, no sugar coating it. Told me where I stood, and pretty much said at my age, I realistically only have the remainder of the year to keep trying with my own eggs. That we need to decide if we are in the no, maybe or yes camp for donor eggs. I am in the yes camp, my OH is in the maybe camp, but he will agree to whatever we need to do to make this happen. She gave me details for the donor team and I will call them to make an appointment and go on the waiting list. In the meantime we’ll keep trying and hope we get just one normal embryo. I have started with my 6th round, back on the menopur and Gonal F as of last night. There is enough time to squeeze in a round before we go to the States. So we’ll see how this goes. I need some damn luck, however, I broke a mirror this week. 

Love to everyone. xX


----------



## Syd72

Kris I wasn't suggesting you cycle with Serum, just do the hysto, you don't need to cycle with them to do that.  I can't tell you the amount of people I've met that have been told a hysto isn't necessary by doctors in the UK and have then had one abroad and found issues.  Very true re the air con - it will be nice to be able to sleep properly at night again!  Bless you, starting again already - take no notice of the mirror!!  When we started talking about DE I was very much in the yes camp and OH started as no, moved to undecided but then basically agreed if it was what we need to do to make it happen so very similar to you.  Desperately hoping you'll have OE success first and won't have to worry about the DE route.

Tootles - good luck today!


----------



## Tootles

Aye up chicks,

Cece - what the hecky Moses have you been eating?!  Twins is just brilliant! I'm sooo chuffed for you. Love that your scan showed them throwing some 1980s shapes. Whack a bit of Now That's What I Call Music 4 on the decks and see what they come up with next. Hope you're feeling tickerty boo lovely.  Have you invested in big knickers yet?

Yo Kris! Thanks for the lovely note! You are one super strong lady. Five rounds in 7 months takes some absolute kahooners. Here's hoping that round 6 will be the jack pot. I'm liking the sound of the consultant that you had. Straight talking, no nonsense but not offensive. I fear that some IVF places are becoming a bit strong on the sales side of things so it's brilliant when someone gives you such honest advice. How's are the meds going? You feeling ok?

Syd! You are one busy lady. Where do you get the energy from? Lovely to read that things are going so well for you. How do you cope with 90% humidity?! Mind you, it felt like that on my train yesterday as the air con had conked out. Exciting to read that you've been buying. Is stuff very different in Honkers? What's the next step for you? Hope your cervix is behaving! 

Hi Magic - your post was so spot on in describing the turmoil of deciding on next steps. I so hope that you just wake up one morning and it's all slipped into place. Once the decision is made you'll feel such a sense of relief but you have to give it time. I think the harder you think about it, the more anxious it becomes. sending you buckets of strength and so hope you just get a sign that tells you what's right for you.

AFM, scan went well today and was sooo happy to see a heartbeat. It's measuring 3 days behind, and I've been here before, so I'm taking everything in my stride. My left ovary went AWOL so the doctor decided to have a good rummage with the nurse but couldn't find it. It's probably in my left boob which seems to have grown into a small mountain.  We celebrated afterwards with a Maccy D - sausage and egg mcmuffin. I'm carrying on with the theme of ignoring all the rules and just doing whatever I fancy coz it's worked well for me so far! 

Love to all xx


----------



## CEce40

morning all, 

Tootles that's awesome news. I've never been told if they're in front/behind etc, just that everything is good. I think it's quite a big scale and must be hard to measure accurately when they're contorting around throwing their shapes. I quite like not knowing, it means I can skip around in blissful ignorance. I'm doubling down on your rule breaks, I don't even know what the rules are - I make my own rules, beeatch! I've always been in the big knicker gang, a bulbous bum like mine really doesn't need to be on display.

It's shaping up to be a lucky year for this little old thread. Bics, Flipper, how are you both getting on? 

7%, hows the dreaded 2ww? any symptoms yet? when's OTD? really hoping you get a great result.

Butterfly, how are you shaping up? hoping that time's helping. 

Kris, sounds like a great follow up. We had a straight talking consultant at Guys, that's why we stayed with them for all our OE cycles. We were the same about DE at first, me in the yes camp, OH in the maybe camp. All I can say is that the maybe goes out the window when you see them bouncing around on the screen. Sounds like a good plan, the best of both options. Good luck this cycle. When are you expecting EC? Yes, we'll definitely be finding out the sex. I'm not the most patient of people and no idea how you even begin to think about names so far too daunting the thought of having to come up with 4 to cover all bases. 

Safe trip back to Honkers, Syd

Magic, feeling your pain with decision time. Hope it gets easier soon


----------



## Syd72

Thanks CEce.

Tootles, I have no energy, I'm flipping knackered this morning after driving up and down the M25 all weekend...  (To visit people, not just for fun.)  The stuff in Honkers is the same but twice the price so I may as well get it here and take it back with me.  Awesome news on your scan.  My first scan this time I was measuring 4 days behind but had a good heartbeat, that was at 6 weeks.  I had one at 7 weeks due to lots of spotting and was measuring 2 days behind, another at 8 weeks and was measuring a day ahead.  By my 11 week scan I was a day behind again.  I think it's just all over the place in the first 12 weeks as the measurements are so small it's hard to be accurate - they say a margin of error 3 days either way is normal.

Hi to everyone else x


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Syd, I did talk to my consultant about a hysto and he doesn't think I need one. He won't give me one. I hope this cycle works too!  How is Honkers?

Hi Toots, congrats on the scan, that's amazing to hear a heartbeat. I would've bawled.  Haha, my ovaries go MIA all the time. Nice work with the sausage McMuffin celebrations.  The nurses tell me to live my life and not be so strict, eating and drinking wise.  Carry on!  I might need you to send me a lock of your hair for good fertility luck. 

CeCe, how are the twins coming along?  Yes, I'm all for the straight talker, no point in blowing smoke up my bum. Tell it like it is. Can't wait to find out what you are having. 

AFM, had a progress scan on yesterday.  Left ovary had one lead and 7 clustered at 13mm, nothing grows on my right, it has an out of order sign on it. They have grown overnight as I can feel them today, hard to bend over and take the nail polish off my toes.  I have a scan tomorrow and EC is on Friday. So, we'll see how this lot goes. I'm tired of living in limbo. 

Magic, I hope you are closer to a decision. Butterfly, hope you are in a good headspace.  7% good luck, my fingers are crossed for you. 

xx


----------



## magicpillow

Hey ladies.  Cece that is such amazing news - twins wooo!  So happy for you lovely. 

Hope you're keeping well Syd and cope ok with the heat.  Thinking of 7% on the 2ww, such a tough part of the treatment process. 

Tootles that's amazing news on your scan.  Just loving your inspiring story, especially as you're a fellow over 40 lady.    

Kris your follow up sounded really good.  I'm pleased we've chosen to go with the Lister.  Really hoping this next cycle is the one.  You're such a trooper for keeping going like this.  I also really appreciate your previous post further up which helped me massively with the decision making.  Sometimes some straight talking can do wonders.  You've all been really sweet with your comments about my decision making process.  I feel like I'm making progress which is good.  I know in my heart that the donor route is the best option for us.  I got all emotional at the weekend thinking about how if it worked, the baby would be the most special and wanted baby.  I'm starting to feel differently about it all.  Not quite ready to go on the waiting list but getting there.  I never realised the decision to move to donor would be so hard!  Thanks ladies for the supportive comments xxx


----------



## Syd72

Kris, that sounds like good numbers for your left ovary, everything crossed for a great ec on Friday.  I also agree, you definitely want a straight talking consultant.

Magic, really glad you feel like you're making some progress with the decision making, it's such a huge thing and definitely not to be rushed.

I'm getting on the plane this afternoon, not looking forward to the flight (scared of flying and unable to take my usual tranquilizers) but looking forward to sleeping in air conditioning when I get home!

Love to all x


----------



## CEce40

Good luck today, kris x


----------



## Bics76

Hello all, 

So sorry for the radio silence and thanks for the lovely messages. I see that lots has been happening!!


Tootles - Wowzers!! Absolutely amazing news! I am so delighted for you and loved reading your updates. It is exactly the type of news that keeps you going when you're in this world. A bit of hope!  

Cece - sounds like your double trouble are doing brilliantly. I'm so pleased and happy for you. Hope the weather has been a bit kinder on you lately. I'm a sun lover normally but I am also totally over it (sleeping in the bathroom when your flat is like a sauna can do that).

Syd - sorry you're shattered but it must have been lovely getting all of your baby stuff. Hope you are now back in the land of air conditioning! 

Kris - I have absolutely everything crossed for you lovely. Hope today goes well xx

Magic - It sounds like you are nearly there with your decision and like you are finding a bit of peace with it all. I'm sorry though that it is such a heart-wrenching decision 


Flipper, 7% and Impulse, how are you all? Well I hope. I have been thinking of you all 


Butterfly, thinking of you loads and hoping youre ok. 

AFM, I am 8 weeks tomorrow. I am nervous as hell still, although I saw a heartbeat at 6 weeks which was amazing. I have hyperemesis again which is awful but good if that makes sense as it is stopping me from taking tests all the time to check things. I'm hoping I can find a little more peace if things keep going ok. 


I am getting married on Sunday and pick up my dress today! Never thought i would be getting married worrying about whether I'll need a hold a plastic bag to puke into, and it looks like I may have to tell the in-laws as I'm not sure I'll get through the day without fessing up. I had wanted to wait as long as I could, and much further along than this, but it is happy news and I know they'll be delighthed (but scared after everything). 

I have been thinking of you all lots. Sorry for being away so long. I am still really nervous but hoping I can start to enjoy things a little more as I can't contol what happens. 

love and huge hugs to all xx


----------



## miamiamo

Bics76 - wonderful news, massive congrats xo


----------



## Bics76

Thanks so much Miami ❤


----------



## magicpillow

That's amazing Bics - huge congrats! xxx


----------



## 7Percent

Wow. So much has been happening congratulations on all the bundles of joy, double bundles of joy and weddings.
Not good news for me. Monday morning started to bleed, by night full on AF. Wednesday morning bloods done and got a phone call after 2pm confirming a negative result.
My followup appoitment isn't until Tue 21st at GCRM but considering doing immunity testing. Been reading up on it all and was wondering if any of you ladies had any experience of these tests. Can't see any places in Scotland that do it but maybe just not come across any yet. London and Greece keep popping up tho
Love to you all 😘😘 x


----------



## magicpillow

Oh 7Percent I'm sorry lovely.  That's rubbish news.  Really hoped it would work out for you.  I don't know much about immunes but as I've had two miscarriages, the Lister were going to run some tests on me.  It's so bad that I can't even remember which ones apart from natural killer cells (but I know it goes more in depth than that). I find it all a bit of a minefield and really should look into it more!  

Hope you can do something nice this weekend just for you 7.  xxx


----------



## Butterfly1976

Hi Ladies

Tootles - Lovely to have you back, and huge congratulations on your natural BFP!! Such lovely news, hope everything continues to go well for you xx

Bics - So pleased for you, it must be a big comfort to know that your embie was PGS normal. I hope you can relax a bit although I totally understand how difficult that is for you. I wanted to wish you a wonderful wedding day for tomorrow xx It's our first anniversary and we are on holiday on the Isle of Wight at the moment, but I will be thinking of you xx

AFM - We had our review last week at Nurture and our consultant was very nice and totally realistic. He said that in light of our 2 failed cycles and from the results they've seen if we continued with OE he'd give us a 5-8% chance of success compared to the 15-20% they gave us in January. In a weird way I was relieved to hear it. It removes any doubt that carrying on with OE IVF is an option. We would probably try DE if we had the funds, it may be an option in a year or 2, for now I just want to try and enjoy life with our girls (my 8 year old and DH's 9 year old). It's difficult to appreciate what you have when you are always thinking of what you have lost.

Sending love to all you fab ladies

xxx


----------



## Efi78

Butterfly

Such an inspiring message.  So hard to appreciate what you have when you continuously mourn for your loss.

All the best on whatever you decide to do


----------



## Olderbuthopeful

Hi,
Yes I recently turned 40 and start injections on my first long protocol on August 30th.
All such a huge learning curve at the moment but very exciting. So hard to keep realistic expectations...
How do you manage?


----------



## Ianaleena

Hi ladies , I tested early on Saturday and got a faint line, and tested today and it’s a defo BFP , fingers crossed for everyone, one symptom I have definitely noticed is really weird dreams that you totally remember.


----------



## Syd72

Congrats Ianaleena.

Good luck olderbuthopeful.  

Butterfly, that's so true.  I sincerely hope that you can be completely at peace whichever route you end up taking, it sounds like you will be x

7percent, I'm so sorry for the bfn.  I haven't had any immune testing so can't help I'm afraid but I think there's a section on the forum dedicated to it?  Probably worth a read.

Bics, so sorry for the hyperemesis but hooray for a hearbeat at 6 weeks!  And happy wedding day for yesterday!!!!  Did you manage not to puke as you walked down the aisle??

Kris, how did Friday go?

Hello to cece, efi, magic, mia, tootles and anyone I've missed xx


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Bics, congratulations!!  How did the wedding go on Sunday?  So wonderful for you, baby and marriage.  You deserve it. Are you still feeling a bit sick?  Hope you managed on Sunday. I am very happy for you. 

Syd, how did you go on the flight?  How do you manage to fly so much when you are afraid of it?

7% I am so very sorry to hear. We all understand the heartbreak.  I have had an immunity test when I started to cycle with ARGC.  They forced me to do it at the whopping cost of £1.1k for a single blood test.  It was sent off to the States and nothing came of it. I know clinics do it, my current clinic, Lister isn't big on it.  I went to a fertility show, where they had a panel of experts talking about all the extra testing and immunity testing came up.  None of them believed in it and said there is no scientific evidence to show that 'killer cells' is a thing. They hated the term and said it was incorrectly used.  That's all I know about immunology testing.  If you feel like you need to rule that out, then by all means have it done. Speak to your clinic about it. 

CeCe, how you and the babies going?

Toots, how are you coming along?

Magic, great to hear that you are making progress with your decision.  I know it's not an easy one, I'm having to make it myself. 

Flipper, how are you feeling?  Anymore excitement?

Butterfly, I understand what you mean by a relief.  A decision has been made for you.  As you said, you can now concentrate on the family that you have.  This whole process is so taxing.  I do hope you still drop in and let us know how you are and if there is any news. I wish you the best of luck with it. 

AFM, it's been quite a week.  My follicles went gangbusters and I grew 14 in the end, they were springing up throughout the week.  I have previously always had around 8 or 9 on my left. However, I was quite uneasy through the process, as I could see that they were growing too rapidly.  In a matter of a couple of days, one of them went from 17mm to 30mm. I instinctively felt it just wasn't right.  Unfortunately, my consultant is away.  I felt I was mismanaged overall. They let me go on until Monday for collection.  That did not go well.  They only managed to get 2 eggs from 14 follicles.  The Dr doing the procedure said it was so unusual to have so many empty follicles that she stopped mid procedure to call the lab.  She said that even if follicles are empty they still contain cells and mine didn't. Of course I was completely devastated and cried all day. 
The lab called this morning and said both fertilised, however, that didn't make me feel too much better.  As the chances of one of them being chromosomally normal is pretty much zero. I transfer on Thursday, day 3, however, they said it was up to me to let them go to bast or not.  I am not sure what to do.  We paid the most we have in all our rounds this time and another bill to go to blast might tip me over the edge.  However, I know it is said to be better if they get to blast.  
I'm just so sick of this, I haven't felt like myself for the past year.  I'm exhausted pretending to be ok and put on a face to everyone. I was actually looking forward to the general and sinking into oblivion for a while. I wish I had some I could take at home. 
I'll see how I go on Thursday. 

Hope everyone is well. 

xx


----------



## Syd72

I’m so sorry Kris, what a crappy round, your emotions must have been all over the place. This is just a quickie to say if I were you I would go for the day 3 transfer. Waiting to day 5 isn’t always best, there’s a school of thought that day 3 may be better for us older ladies. Day 3 transfer is the only one that’s worked for me.

xx


----------



## Ianaleena

Test day today and a nice BFP still, and I have my scan on the 4th sep😀


----------



## Kris76

Hi Syd, thanks.  I needed that. I was so unsure what to do but you have helped to make my decision then. Transfer tomorrow it is.  I hope I feel better for it.  I have been feeling rotten since collection.  Painful bloating and excruciating stomach cramps.  Disastrous round. 

xx


----------



## CEce40

oh Kris, that's really rough. You must be devastated. I'd echo Syd about the day 3 transfer. Our clinic do 3 day transfers as standard if they can identify the 1 or 2 embies that are the best at that point. They take them to blast if there are a number of them all doing well and there's no stand out winner. I had mainly day 3 transfers. My last one was day 5 but only to try something different. It made no difference to the outcome. In fact the only positive cycle with my eggs was a day 3. 

You sound like I did when I decided enough was enough. Maybe it's something about getting to a year milestone and realising you've not moved any further forward. Its a thoroughly horrible feeling and I hope you don't sink too low. Looking back though, for me I'm glad it happened. It was the trigger I needed to make a change without any sense of regret. For me that was the move to DE and I honestly think I wouldn't have been so positive about it if I hadn't have had my little crash. Obvs I'm hoping you don't get to this point because your 2 little fighters do you proud. 

Take it easy in the 2ww. Bugger the happy face, be a grump for a while x

Hi to everyone else, I'll come back and do other personals in a few days, just wanted to get in quick with this one and throw some positive vibes out there for tomorrow


----------



## magicpillow

So sorry to hear it hasn't gone well Kris, that's so gutting.  Wise words from Cece.  Good luck for your transfer - 3 day definitely sounds the better option.  I'm really hoping that one of these (or both) will just stick.  You've really gone for it big guns with the treatment and deserve it so much.  

What Cece said about deciding enough is enough resonated with me.  Despite the turmoil about donor ivf, I look back to some posts back in Jan/Feb after my mc and 4th IVF and I had said I couldn't put myself through another fresh IVF cycle and more or less indicated that donor was the way forward.  I think I was physically and emotionally spent.  Interesting to read it back. 

Will be thinking of you Kris.  

Great news about the BFP Ianaleena!


----------



## miamiamo

Ianaleena - awesome news, sending my hugs xx


----------



## Tootles

Oh Kris, what a tough round. I'm so hoping you are tucked up in bed and feeling content with your decision which for what it's worth I think is defo the right one. There are so many experiences on here where rounds don't seem to go to plan and results end up being the biggest surprise. But if while going through this you come to a decision about what the next steps might be then, like Cece says, it could be a blessing. It's that turning point that I think we all want when we've just had enough. Got everything crossed for you beautiful. 

Butterfly, what a lovely way of describing your thoughts. I totally get you. When I went a bit off the rails after round three failed, it was amazing how quickly I looked at what I have got and felt very lucky and weirdly content. Hoping the next two years and beyond are filled with smiles X 

Hello 'Mrs' Bics!! Huge congratulations hon! It's all going on! How are you doing? Hope everything is going well. Did you manage to make it through the day without grabbing for a bag?! So happy for you.

Hi Syd - how are things with you? Hope all is going well.  Has the general tiredness gone yet? I think honkers is about 7 hours ahead isn't it, so hopefully you are winding down right now as we're all thinking about getting up. I hope you don't think I'm a nosy Parker (I am, I'll admit it!!) but what's life like out there? I've never been and can only imagine from what I've seen on the telly box but it looks amazing. Do you love it? 

Hi Cece - what's occurring lovely lady? How are you feeling? I always feel so moved and so uplifted when you describe how happy you are.  Hope those two little bundles aren't causing you any nausea or heartburn etc Do you have many of the typical symptoms? Got to say, I wasn't expecting all of the wind. I think I could actually take off and give the red arrows a run for their money right now. I love that you are (a) a badass rule breaker, and (b) have a fabulous rear end. Mine is growing rapido right now. 

Magic - how are things going with you lovely? I'm so hoping that you've come to, or are close to finding that place of contentment about next steps. I know it may sound odd, but the change of season often pushes me forward with things. Got to say, I'm a big Autumn fan and am very much over this sweltering summer we've had. Very ready for big jumpers and woolly socks! 

Ianaleena- huge congrats on your BFP! Hope the wait for the scan flies by. How are you feeling?

AFM - second scan yesterday and measuring just over eight weeks so still a bit behind. The nugget has all scrunched up but we saw a good heart beat again. Staying on with the miscarriage specialist which is really reassuring and they're happy to do regular reassurance scans. Just got to get to that 12 week point and then maybe relax a bit. Next hurdle is a harmony test - dreading it as that was when it all went wrong first time round on IVF. Anxious times X


----------



## Ianaleena

Tootles its great evening is going well for you ,it’s always lovely having those reassurance scans.
I’m feeling very tired at the moment and really hungry,I mean hungry ALL the time, have the odd cramps on and off but I know that’s the womb growing apart from that I’m good,hubby is sure we have two growing inside as he says I’m double hungrier and tired more than last time , and when I think about it he’s right, oh and I’m going to the toilet like every hour, so I’m getting plenty of excercise 😀 
How is everyone else doing,? it’s so nice to see so many pregnant ladies on here.


----------



## Kris76

Hi lovely ladies

Thanks CeCe. I agree with a Magic, your words certainly have resonated with me too. Exactly right, I’ve absolutely decoyed myself physical and emotionally since December, doing 6 rounds and I’m still in the same position. I think you almost need to start scraping the bottom of the barrel to have the courage to switch without anegrets. You summed it up perfectly CeCe. I hope you and your two bubs are kicking goals. 

I see Magic, you too, are beginning to fee that way. You definitely reach your own point of enough is enough. I’m pretty much there. I push on as my OH feels it will still happen with my eggs. I don’t. I’ve about 90% accepted that fact. I didn’t think this could ever happen to me but it has, and I’m just grateful I still have an option. The door is not completely closed on becoming a mum. I’m thankful for that. I guess we all get there in our own time. 

Toots, great news on the second scan and that you are still being managed by the specialist. This little one is here to stay I feel. I’m also guessing it’s a girl. I understand your anxiety with the Harmony test. All my fingers and toes are crossed for you. It’s all so incredible. 

AFM, I went in on Thursday for my 3day transfer. I was all ready to transfer, we went over it all. However the the consultant and embryologist both felt I should let them go to blast as they were doing well. I wasn’t sure but let them sway me. I knew they could arrest, at least I wouldn’t have to go through the agony of a 2ww and another failed outcome. I transferred them both on Saturday. My ovaries are still so swollen from this round and my follicles are still huge. I immediately saw them on the ultrasound. I’m uncomfortable. They overstimulated me. Well I was on the same dosage, however, I reacted differently this time.
It’s done, they are in. I know I sound pessimistic, however, not one fibre of my being is expecting them to work. We are off to the States on Friday for two weeks. At least I’ll be distracted. I hope my ovaries go back to normal soon. 

I hope everyone else had a good weekend, Syd, Butterfly, 7%, Bics, Flipper. Lots of love to you all....and anyone I’ve forgotten. 

Congrats Ianaleena on your BFP.


----------



## Ianaleena

Thank you kris , I went on holiday on my two week wait and it was the best thing I did, too busy walking around Disney to think about and getting my BFP while away was lovely so fingers crossed the same happens for you.
Morning everyone how is everyone doing  today


----------



## Syd72

Kris, congrats on your transfer, sorry for swollen ovaries   I've always read drinking lots of water helps.  Where are you off to in the States? Have a wonderful holiday x

Tootles, I definitely don't think you're a nosy parker   Asking about living in a particular country is nothing compared to some of the stuff we discuss on here - CM, wind, fanny muscles that shoot pessaries across the room!!!  It's kind of a complicated question to answer though.  I lived here years ago, when I was footloose and fancy-free, no mortgage/house to worry about at home, loads of disposable income, lovely big company-provided flat, I still count those as some of the best years of my life.  It's much harder now, we struggle for money and everything is extortionate out here (we pay 2.5k for a tiny flat a half hour ferry ride from the main HK island), this is definitely not a place you want to be short of money.  The social life just isn't the same as we can't afford it, not that I have the energy to be out partying every night now I'm in my 40s.  I'm not doing loads of lovely weekends away to places like Thailand and the Philippines like I was before.  It's crowded, dirty, the climate is horrible 9 months of the year - hot, humid, constant torrential rain.  Don't get me wrong, it's a great place, a vibrant city, and you can have a fantastic lifestyle out here.  Just at this stage of my life I would rather be home, in my lovely house with all my friends and family close by.  I'm good thanks, still v tired but I think that's just the way it's going to be now, small price to pay.  

Love to all xx


----------



## RFairyGodmother

Hi ladies

Just spotted this thread and would like to join please. I'm currently on 2ww, had d3t and otd is 26.08.18- nervous!


----------



## CEce40

Hi Luck2018, welcome. Congrats on your transfer, good luck during the 2ww, the symptom spotting can drive you mad.

Syd, that's so interesting. I love hearing about lives abroad. I'm fully in Tootles' nosey camp. Is there anything to stop you coming home if you're not into the mad, young life anymore? are you tied into a work contract? 

Congrats on the BFP Ianaleena, hope the countdown to the first scan doesn't drag too much

Kris, congrats on the transfer. My word this has been a sod of a cycle. Go cram those massive ovaries in some support pants, jump on that plane and have an awesome time in the states. What's the plan? beach? shopping? road trip?

Woohoo Tootles, great scan and brill that your staying under the specialist. Hope you take advantage of those reassurance scans and keep the anxiety at bay. We'll be bump buddies after all - a year later than we first thought, but we got there in the end! Oh the wind, it's extreme. I've always been a bit cow-like on the methane front, but this is beyond. My diet is 2 3rds Gaviscon. 

Magic, glad you're getting closer to a decision. What a good idea to look back at your old posts.

Butterfly, great decision. Enjoy your special family with no regrets. 

Bics, how was the wedding? what perfect timing (minus the puking) to have your little bud be part of it alongside the special memories of your beautiful daughter. Hope you're on some sun drenched beach somewhere, chilling with a mocktail. 

A little bit of second trimester energy and I've gone renovation crazy. We're having the bathroom done in Oct and planning a ground floor extension for next year. Its amazing how much I'm starting to feel alive again now we're out of the infertility limbo (fingers crossed. I know things can still go wrong, but I'm determined to think positivly). Its crazy the amount of things we all have to put off or don't get round to because we never know where we're going to be in our cycles, how much money we're going to need, whether we're going to end up childless with a completely different lifestyle. There's just so much more that goes into this whole business than drugs and disappointments. Hang on in there all those who are still in the middle of it x


----------



## RFairyGodmother

Hi Cece

Thank u and congratulations on your bfp! Found ur good wishes to everyone so inspiring.


----------



## magicpillow

Welcome to the thread Luck!  Keeping my fingers crossed for you. 

Cece that's great about the renovations.  Good for you.  We are actually planning a small downstairs extension hopefully starting in October!  We remortgaged to include the extension and IVF.  I could end up with a scenario of extension being done and IVF at the same time but you can't put life on hold. 

On that note, I went on the donor waiting list at the Lister today!  In the end we decided to just go for it as I was making myself ill going round in circles.  We thought worst case scenario we will lose out on some money if I can't go through with it.  I think I'll be fine though.  It feels like a massive relief.  I think the wait will be about 9 months for a match or treatment.  I'm very worried about not getting many eggs from the cycle and it all going pear shaped as obviously you only get half of what the donor produces.  It's such a gamble so I can't get my hopes up.  Feel so sad about my own babies but this is the new path.  Need to also think about getting a sperm donor sorted too!


----------



## magicpillow

I meant to say that I was reading a thread the other day on donor eggs and someone was asking about how you make the decision to move to donor.  One lady said that after 4 failed OE cycles, although she could do another one financially, she was just tired and wanted to take the path of least resistance.  I think that's how I feel too.  I'm exhausted from it all and I can't be bothered to go through all that again.  Will see what happens....


----------



## Bics76

Hello Ladies! 

Thanks for all of your lovely wedding wishes, they were so appreciated  We had an absolutely amazing day but a rather eventful honeymoon (more below). 

Right, lots of catch ups to do. Very sorry if I miss anyone. 

Kris, my lovely, I'm so sorry to hear about this round. What a crappy time you have had of it and you must be utterly exhausted with everything. I have everything crossed for you though and I am wishing hard that you finally get some sunshine. So glad to hear that you will soon be Stateside. You deserve it and I hope you have a fantastic time. Where are you off to? 

7% - I'm so sorry about this round. Sending huge hugs to you xx

Butterfly - Thanks for your really lovely message. We had a really wonderful and magical day. It was very emotional, as we incorporated our lost beautiful boy into the day as much as we could (so the room was filled with sunflowers  I thought of you lots and hope that you had a lovely and happy 1st anniversary. Your message really resonated with me. Sometimes I don't know where the past 2 years have gone, as we have been grieving and yearning so hard for our boy and it has been a time of real sadness and what ifs. We are blessed to have my oldest son and I agree that sometimes its hard to enjoy what you have when loss is all that you can see and feel. I think of you often, as our stories are so similar. Please stay in touch, I'd love to hear how you all are x 

(The PGS normal embryo should give us some comfort but we seem to be the couple who broke the statistics so it's still hard not to worry. I'm trying though x)

Olderbuthopeful - Hi! I hope you are ok. Not long now till the 30th!

Ianaleena - congratulations on the BFP. Lovely news  

Luck 2018 - Hi and welcome! This is a really lovely group of ladies so you are in the right place x

Cece - Very exciting about the house renovations!! I guess you'll need all the space that you can get with twins  I totally agree about the living in limbo. It's so hard when you can't make any plans as you have no idea which way your life will go. I spent years in a job I hated while we tried IVF for my first son. It seemed crazy to start somewhere new when I would need time off and had the good will of the company I was at (also felt crazy to stay mind!). Hope that you are feeling well and not too tired. Your messages always make me smile. You are a real ray of sunshine x

Syd - Glad that you are all good but sorry that you are shattered. Like you say, all worth it but still very hard. Hoping that you will be soon be back in the UK in your lovely house. It sounds like HK has been great but maybe not so much now. It was really interesting hearing all about it (I have never been). 

Magic - Glad to hear that you are on the list for the Lister! That's exciting. I hope that it feels a bit like some weight has lifted (but I know that it is a very painful and difficult decision for you). Sending big hugs x 

Tootles - I did manage not to puke down the aisle! TBH, I was too busy beaming and thinking wow DH looks lovely  It caught me later though haha! 

It's great to hear that you have had reassurance scans. My care so far (since being discharged by IVF) has been pretty poor. No extra scans so far and I am in limbo until my 12 week scan when I will finally see a consultant (maybe it will change then). So much so that I am thinking of going private, or at least having some private scans. 

I love your updates. You really are a ban breaking badass and I'm so happy for you. I think we are at the same stage? I am 10 weeks tomorrow all being well. I have been thinking about doing the Harmony test too and have been looking into it (as well as Panorama and MaterniT21 - very confusing whether they are all the same thing!)  While there is a school of thought is that it may not be necessary if you do PGS, I keep reading about people who have been the 1% (inaccurate PGS results) and me and DH seem to be the walking 1% in life, hence looking into it. I hope its not too much of a tense time for you. 

Flipper - Hope you are ok xx 

AFM, we had an incredible wedding day but our honeymoon was pretty fraught. I had bleeding and cramps on the second day and we were up in the mountains, and abroad, so miles away from a hospital. I also had a massive decrease in morning sickness, having always had hyperemesis (I was still sick as a dog but not puking everywhere). So I was panicking big time. I decided to wait until I got home as I couldn't face the thought of trying to explain everything in a foreign language and explain all my history and clotting issues etc. I also just couldn't face having a miscarriage confirmed on my honeymoon. It made for a difficult time as I was trying to hold it together and DH was amazing but I was heartsick at the timing and with worry. 

I managed to get seen at the EPU when I got back (no thanks to my GP surgery who were AWFUL - I had to go via A&E in the end!). Luckily, all is well and I saw a heartbeat again. I have a haematoma below the baby, which is why I was bleeding. I hope it goes away soon.

Well that was a mammoth message! Hope you are all still awake after reading that  

Sending love and big hugs to all. Sorry again if I have forgotten anyone or mixed up who has said what - my scroll wheel is worn out, as I have been away for a good while so have been scrolling up and down reading updates  xxxx


----------



## Ianaleena

Bics wow what a time you had, but all turned out well in the end, all to an Amazing future to look forward with your new husband and family ❤


----------



## Bics76

Thank you Ianaleena, that's lovely of you xx


----------



## CEce40

yay magic, so glad you've come to a decision and you've finally got some relief. Sounds like your extension is excellent timing. 

Bics, 10 weeks, how amazing. so sorry your honeymoon was so eventful, but maybe that was just the bub being a bit of a diva and muscling in on your alone time. so glad everything was okay, must have been scary x


----------



## Bics76

Thanks so much Cece  Haha yes, maybe this is a sign that bub is going to be tricky. I can only hope  Very scary and stressful time but I am lucky that things are ok so far. 

I have terrible insomnia at the moment and I started reading this thread from the beginning during the early hours (at about 3am?!?). You and Tootles have become bump buddies at the same time after all. That made me smile (as did reading about Thunderbird, beards and cervix examinations!)

Hugs to all x


----------



## Syd72

Luck 2018, welcome, how was test day?

Congrats on the renovations CEce, loving that you're getting some energy back and a bit jealous as that never happened to me.  It's my OH that keeps us in HK as he has a business here, he's supposed to be winding it down over the next two years, come what may I've said I'm leaving in 18 months, we'll have to go back to being long distance for a while.  Not ideal with a small child but there are just so many reasons why it'll be better for s/he to be in the UK.

Magic, so glad you're on the waiting list, I think yoú've definitely done the right thing.  Isn't there a minimum number of eggs the sharer has to produce, if they produce less then they choose either to donate all to you or keep all themselves and you don't pay?  I'm sure I've read something like that.  Obviously if they decide to keep all that's not good news for you but I think you stay on top of the list if that happens.  I've not read of that happening very often at all so I'm sure you'll be fine.  I hope over the next few months you'll come more to term with the DE idea, I certainly felt much more excited and hopeful when starting my first DE cycle (even though it failed I felt excited still for my second round).

Bics, congrats and so glad you had a lovely wedding but sorry the honeymoon was a bit poo, so glad all was ok with the scan.  

Can't remember if I've updated on this already but somewhat at risk of pre-term labour.  Did have a slightly shortened cervix although that seems to have lengthened again (didn't know that could happen) but my cervix is now slightly open and has been since last week.  I'm on progesterone to strengthen the cervix and they're scanning me weekly now, 28 weeks today so at least well past viability but it's still a worry.  

Hi to everyone else, hope all ok x


----------



## rabbit2018

Hi, everyone, I am new here. Hope I can join. 

I just did one cycle stimulation and transfered one day 3 embryo today, and will transfer one day 5 frozen embryo on Thursday. It is the first time to try this kind of transfer method. I am worried a lot.

This stimulation cycle was trigger on the 7th day of my period, it surprised me when I heard to be triggered so early, but I believe in the judge of the doctor, on the trigger day, the linig is 9.8mm with good three layers. And I transfered today, on the 12th day of my period, it is also quite early, the lining is 8.42mm, I am afraid it is a little bit thin, but the transfer doctor said it is very good. I heard the level of E2 and progesterone will affect the implantation, but I do not know these data of E2 and progesterone today, the nurse told me progesterone is 30 (I donot know the unit), just fine and remind me of using Ustrogestan on time. 

Now I started to worry about the thickness of lining on the day of 5 day embryo transfer. Does anyone know whether the lining will become thicker or thinner in two days? Considfering the lining size and the level of E2 and progesterone, I am thinking if I should stop transfering 5 day embryo in this cycle and do FET next cycle, because the egg collection is really too early comparing with my normal period cycle, so I do not have more confidence for the lining and the level of E2 and progesterone. 

Does anyone has some experience and know more about it? I really want to hear it.

Best blessing for every one here.


----------



## Ruthannah

rabbit2018 
i couldn't read and run, you must be in a very tight place so much to think and worry about. My only advise would be to trust your doctors, i know we have to do that otherwise there will be no point in even consulting them.
With my last pregnancy though i miscarried i did a 3 and 5 day transfer as well(it was also my 1st time to do it), i did not have any numbers of oestrogen and progesterone though they checked them, i prefer not to know too much 
Also my thickness was i think 13 or 11 
All the best with what you decide for tomorrow


----------



## Bics76

Hello all, 

Hope everyone is ok. We have all been quiet haven't we? 

Syd, sorry for the delay in coming back to your message and thanks for the congrats 

It must be very worrying re the risk of pre-term labour, but it seems like they are on it and taking good care of you/monitoring things closely. Hope the weeks pass by uneventfully for you and that your bub stays firmly put for a while yet and that the progesterone helps. I ended my progesterone intramuscular injections a week ago now. Don't think my bum will ever forgive me! I am still sore as anything. Still on the clexane though...

Hi Rabbit and Ruthannah (waves). Rabbit - I hope that you got the answer/reassurance you needed about your transfer. I didn't even know that it was possible to do a 3 and then 5 day transfer, that is fascinating. What did you do in the end Rabbit? I hope that it all went really well. 

I'm very sorry to hear about your MC Ruthannah  

How is everyone else? I have been thinking of you all. Kris, are you still stateside? Hope you are having/you have had a fantastic time. I have been wondering how your cycle went and hoping hard that you have had good news. I didn't want to ask before hearing from you, but then realised that it would be crap if you thought that you hadn't been in my thoughts. (Sorry, I am crap with words sometimes). 

AFM, sorry for the radio silence. I have been waiting for Harmony and NHS nuchal results, which has been a tense and worrying wait. The results of both seem ok so far, but I have my follow up scan at the FMC on Saturday so will not know properly until then. I can't see that I will every stop worrying this time around. I am just trying to get through each stage. 

I wondered if anyone had any thoughts about a good London hospital for a high risk pregnancy. I am currently at St. Marys (Paddington) but after a really awful experience during my 12 week scan (where we had to demand to see another sonographer as she was so unpleasant to us both and I ended up in floods of tears) and a consultant appointment after that really wasn't very reassuring, I am thinking I really don't want to be there. 

Sending big hugs to everyone xx


----------



## Bics76

ps, Tootles, I know you were going to do a Harmony test too. Hope it’s all gone well. I’ve been thinking of you xxx


----------



## rabbit2018

HI，dear Ruthannah and Bisc76, sorry to come back so late. 
Ruthannah, sorry to hear about MC, thank for your advice, as you said, I was really anxious a lot that time, but finally just followed the doctor, trusted her, and tried not to think about it too much. 

Bisc76, I hope you got the good result about nuchal test, finger across for your Saturday scan, and thank you for your concern about me. I feel very sorry to hear that you had a bad experience for the last 3 months, hope you will find another good hospital and good doctors. 

AFM, I did day 3 embryo transfer and then day 5 frozen embryo. On the 5th day after egg collection, they checked the lining size was 10mm or so, it became thicker than two days ago (8.42mm), I hope the thicker the better.  After transfer, I feel relieved, and then just ignored this matter, living in a normal way, do not think about the result till the test day, just wait for the God decision.

Hope everyone here is fine.


----------



## Efi78

Tootles said:


> Oh Kris, what a tough round. I'm so hoping you are tucked up in bed and feeling content with your decision which for what it's worth I think is defo the right one. There are so many experiences on here where rounds don't seem to go to plan and results end up being the biggest surprise. But if while going through this you come to a decision about what the next steps might be then, like Cece says, it could be a blessing. It's that turning point that I think we all want when we've just had enough. Got everything crossed for you beautiful.
> 
> Butterfly, what a lovely way of describing your thoughts. I totally get you. When I went a bit off the rails after round three failed, it was amazing how quickly I looked at what I have got and felt very lucky and weirdly content. Hoping the next two years and beyond are filled with smiles X
> 
> Hello 'Mrs' Bics!! Huge congratulations hon! It's all going on! How are you doing? Hope everything is going well. Did you manage to make it through the day without grabbing for a bag?! So happy for you.
> 
> Hi Syd - how are things with you? Hope all is going well. Has the general tiredness gone yet? I think honkers is about 7 hours ahead isn't it, so hopefully you are winding down right now as we're all thinking about getting up. I hope you don't think I'm a nosy Parker (I am, I'll admit it!!) but what's life like out there? I've never been and can only imagine from what I've seen on the telly box but it looks amazing. Do you love it?
> 
> Hi Cece - what's occurring lovely lady? How are you feeling? I always feel so moved and so uplifted when you describe how happy you are. Hope those two little bundles aren't causing you any nausea or heartburn etc Do you have many of the typical symptoms? Got to say, I wasn't expecting all of the wind. I think I could actually take off and give the red arrows a run for their money right now. I love that you are (a) a badass rule breaker, and (b) have a fabulous rear end. Mine is growing rapido right now.
> 
> Magic - how are things going with you lovely? I'm so hoping that you've come to, or are close to finding that place of contentment about next steps. I know it may sound odd, but the change of season often pushes me forward with things. Got to say, I'm a big Autumn fan and am very much over this sweltering summer we've had. Very ready for big jumpers and woolly socks!
> 
> Ianaleena- huge congrats on your BFP! Hope the wait for the scan flies by. How are you feeling?
> 
> AFM - second scan yesterday and measuring just over eight weeks so still a bit behind. The nugget has all scrunched up but we saw a good heart beat again. Staying on with the miscarriage specialist which is really reassuring and they're happy to do regular reassurance scans. Just got to get to that 12 week point and then maybe relax a bit. Next hurdle is a harmony test - dreading it as that was when it all went wrong first time round on IVF. Anxious times X


Hey Tootles

How is it going? You must be around 12 weeks now. All good?


----------



## Bics76

Hi Rabbit, just a quick one to say thanks for your message (sorry for the delay in responding) and that I'm really glad that the transfer went well for you. 

Sending love and big hugs to everyone else xx


----------



## RFairyGodmother

Hi

Am hoping to start a FET cycle soon. Waiting to see if clinic has capacity this month. Anyone else's clinic have a waiting list?


----------



## Kris76

Heeelllllloooooooooooooooo ladies,

It has been an age.  Hope everyone is well?

Syd, sounds like you are coming along swimmingly. Great that your cervix has lengthened. Amazing, you're getting there.  Can't wait until you have the baby. 

Cece, how are you feeling?  How are the renovations going?

Bics, so happy to hear that the test results are clear.  That must be a big relief for your both.  I'm so pleased for you both. 

Magic, how are you coping with things?  I had a follow up with James last week and he told me that the DE wait list is now 3-5 months. I remember you saying you were told it is 9 months.  James asked for your name, I was like, um, er, magicpillow? ahaha.  I freaked out a bit, as that is so soon!

Hello to Fairy Godmother and Rabbit. 

AFM, I got back from the US 2 weeks ago.  I had my 6th failed cycle the first weekend there.  That was horrendous.  I was a bit more hopefully as I had sore, heavy boobs.  That was the progesterone that had my fooled. I cried for days. I had to pull myself together or ruin the whole trip.  We did have a wonderful time, hiking in the Rockies was incredible.  We stayed with an old friend in Aspen...I did a ski season there years ago. That renewed me as I had such a ball reliving old times. 
It has been mental since I returned as we are completely gutting a house we bought earlier this year and the architect needed me to choose as many of the interiors for every room as I could, from a kitchen + appliances right down to the light sockets.  The last couple of weeks have been a whirlwind of showrooms.  It was more stressful than IVF. 
As for the IVF world, I had my follow up and my consultant said that it should've worked by now and I should stop battering my body and go DE.  Of course I was crushed.  As he said, it is made harder by the fact, that every round all my fertilised eggs make it to blast.  They just won't stick. I guess I just have abnormal old eggs. 
My OH said we want to keep going, but he said, he wouldn't do anymore after this year. We are completely deflated. I will go on the waiting list, at the ridiculous cost of £550 and a forced counselling session of £150.  IVF is ruining us financially, starting number 7 since December is tough. 
I started injecting last night, I'm on a new drug called Meriofert.  I hadn't heard of it before.  My consultant just wants to try something different. 
My beloved grandma has developed dementia and isn't making much sense these days.  So I am going back to Melbourne in exactly 3 weeks to see her.  Again, it will be transfer and get on a flight. So things are a bit **** with me, there's a lot on my plate.  

No good news unfortunately. 

I am glad to hear that everyone else is doing well. 

I must run and try and choose some damn tiles. 

xx


----------



## Syd72

Oh Kris, I’m gutted for you, been waiting for your update. Will write more later, in the middle of conference calls, just wanted to react to your post xx


----------



## CEce40

Oh Kris, that's pants. I'm so sorry. Good for you jumping straight back on that horse, but cor blimey you've got a lot going on. Take care not to burn yourself out. The move to DE can be gutting, but you've definitely given it all you've got and you can't ask for more than that. Hopefully this last round will be easier on you and if you do need to use DE hopefully the acceptance wont be too hard. For what it's worth, I've only had 1 fleeting sad feeling during this pregnancy about it being DE. I caught 5 mins of One Born Every Minute (a prog that was totally banned previously!) and had an instant reaction on seeing a newborn to compare it to the parents and see if they looked alike. I realised that I wouldn't be able to do that........BUT, within 30 seconds I just thought, my god girl, get over it. I'm going to be so overwhelmed and so full of love for these little 'uns when they make their entrance that it wont even cross my mind if they have my ears or not (I have huge ears, so that's only a bonus!). Other than that I've been nothing but positive. It doesn't matter how they got in there, they're definitely ours and it feels really magical. Wishing you so much luck with round 7  

Bics congrats on the tests, such a relief. So happy for you, you really deserve this. 

Syd, worrying times but sounds like you're being monitored like crazy so that much be reassuring. Great that you've got a HK exit plan worked out. I'm sure the other half will speed things up and sprint over here once the baby's in the picture. That adds a whole new dimension to long distance.

Hi to FairyGodmother, Rabbit and Ruthannah. 

AFM, all going well. 21 weeks now and have the anomaly scan next week. Bit anxious for that but excited to get to another milestone. Feels like we've got a couple of disco dancers in there, somersaulting around and riverdancing on my cervix. A few headaches now and the reappearance of some funky CM, oh and I can't breath, but nothing major. So fingers crossed all progressing well. 

Hi to everyone else x


----------



## magicpillow

Hi ladies. I'm currently in holiday up in the highlands of Scotland so am typing this on my phone.  Will catch up properly when I'm back. Welcome to the new ladies and Cece I'm so glad all is going well. 

Kris I'm really sorry about your latest cycle and all the emotions surrounding potentially having to move to donor. It's so hard. Just thought I'd reply as that's so funny James asked my name! I was told back in June it was a 9 month wait but when I went on the waiting list at the end of August and then got an email 2 weeks after that, it said 6 months.  Sounds like it might be even sooner then! I figured if it does take 6 months, that would take me to Feb to be matched and then presumably I wouldn't start treatment for another couple of months due to all the tests and admin so am potentially looking at April for treatment. Hard to plan anything or think about how to manage it around work. Will see...xx


----------



## Bics76

Oh Kris, my lovely, I am so sorry, what a rotten time you have had and you have so much going on to boot. I had so been hoping for some good news for you, you more than deserve it. Life is just totally crap and unfair sometimes. I'm glad that you managed to enjoy your holiday as best you could in the end though, despite how tough it must have been. 

You have so much on your plate right now, take good care of yourself. I am very sorry to hear about your Grandma xx

I hope so much that this cycle is the one. Do you have a rough idea of when are you doing collection? 

The house renovations sound super stressful but it'll be satisfying getting your place together from scratch. We are living in West London's smallest flat (bit of an exaggeration, but we have really outgrown it now) and we are looking to move at some point, so I love hearing about house renovations from you and Cece - living vicariously! 

Cece - thanks for your lovely message. Sounds like it is all going really well, I'm so happy for you and pleased to hear that. 21 weeks!   Hope the anomaly scan goes really well - I will be thinking of you. It's lovely hearing your updates, you are always super positive. How are your house renovations going? 

Magic - It must be so hard to plan while you wait to hear about DE, but hopefully the time will come around really quickly and from what Kris' consultant says, it may be even quicker than April. Hope you had/have a wonderful time in the Highlands. I have always wanted to go. 

AFM, I was 16 weeks yesterday. Had a bit of a scare last weekend as I had some bleeding and went in to check. It was all ok but I had a call on the Monday evening saying that they had forgotten to given me anti-d (I'm rhesus negative)! By the time I had it I was over the 72 hrs you're supposed to have it within. Suffice to say that did not help with my worries! Things seem ok so far though. I am finding this pregnancy very difficult mentally, especially as I really don't trust my body anymore so any little niggle sends me into a panic, but that's to be expected after everything. I am very grateful, it's just a different kind of journey now. I have a bereavement midwife now who is helping me through and understands, so i'm lucky to have the support. Going to channel some Cece positivity  

Love and very big hugs to all xx


----------



## Efi78

Hi Kris

I am so sorry for the failed cycle. I know how hard it feels. I have had four cycles so far and no luck.

Our main problem was male factor and of course now my age. Luckily enough we had the sperm fixed with clomid, cabergoline and change of diet and we decided to try naturally. Mind you we had been told that we should use donor sperm for the next cycle, but hey ho...how wrong can doctors be. 

Anyway, being aware that now there is an age factor on my side, and having conceived twice naturally but miscarrried, we decided to try on our own. I have similar hormone levels to yours which are pretty good.

I guess what I want to ask is, what is the reason for doing so many IVFs? Do you have a male factor? Because if all good on both sides you have the same chances with IVF as naturally. My feeling is that these drugs are too strong and they have an impact on egg quality. For an older lady, the less drugs the better. Mind you, clinics also care a lot about success rates, therefore after a few cycles they will push you to donor eggs/sperm. 

BTW we have the same consultant. He is lovely but I find that he rushes a bit too much on decisions without looking at the wider picture.

To put it simply, a woman who makes so many blasts can’t have so crap eggs. There must be something else going on. Thrombophilia? Hormone imbalance? Natural killer cells? Sperm DNA fragmenation? Simply unlucky?


----------



## miamiamo

> Because if all good on both sides you have the same chances with IVF as naturally


No health issues on both sides might also mean unexplained infertility, that is not so easy to deal with even with the help of IVF


----------



## Efi78

You are right mamiamo. However i wonder whether unexplained means that the doctors haven’t looked at all factors. There must always be a reason. For us it was high sperm DNA fragmentation. Which is now corrected, but maybe too late for me. They didn’t look into this until after 6 years....


----------



## Efi78

Anyway. Apologies everyone, didn’t want to intervene. The theme of this thread is IVF for over 40s not IVF vs natural. At the end of the day between the two everyone would always choose natural and there must be a strong reason to do IVF

Just broke my heart reading Kris message and wanted to offer some hope.


----------



## magicpillow

Your post was so interesting Efi.  I have often worried about the effects of the strong drugs on my egg quality.  I've always responded really well to stimms and got plenty of eggs.  I did consider looking at Create for a milder approach for a last shot with my own eggs but I'm so tired now that I'm kind of going along with donor.  I would love to have a baby with my own eggs but I'm ok now with donor too. It's all such a minefield.  We have no chance of natural conception due to azoospermia so I guess donor eggs gives me the best chance.  I still sometimes toy with the idea of natural / mild IVF with my own eggs for one last shot though as it's hard when my cycles have always gone so well.  I'm ok with donor treatment though which is a step forwards as I really wasn't a few months back!


----------



## onelastchance

Hi All,
Sorry to just jump in but I have been following this thread for a while waiting for our 2nd round of IVF to start. Sadly this round has been cancelled as I didn’t respond well and I started light spotting. 
I now really need some advice and you all have such varied experiences and knowledge I’m hoping you might be kind enough to offer your advice as to what I should do now as I am totally heart broken and lost as to where to go from here.
Brief details about me, TTC 8+years, GP wouldn’t refer me for fertility treatment until by chance Locum GP referred me just before my 40th Birthday. I have been diagnosed with low AMH, (2.51 at the start of fertility treatment) and poor response to treatment. We had one round of LP IVF on the NHS which resulted in our DS, who is our miracle baby and I know how lucky I am to have him.
I just started a round of SP IVF, but my period was different this month and I only had light bleeding prior to treatment. The hospital (just our local one that we did the NHS round) insisted that we start. I didn’t respond well again, only 3 follicles and then the light bleeding started, by the 3rd scan they could only see 1 follicle so called an end to the treatment as there was not significant growth and my lining wasn’t getting any thicker. 
There’s just not enough words to convey how sad I feel and disappointed in myself for not being able to provide our son with a sibling. I know age is against me so I need to make a decision as to where we go from here. The hospital said I could do another round but they don’t recommend it and suggested DE. They don’t specialise in older ladies or women with DOR so they are reluctant to continue treatment. 
Please any advice is welcome, this is just such a hard journey to go on and no one outside my partner and a close friend who has also just done a round of IVF know what we have been going through.


----------



## Kiss

Hi onelastchance
I think you are in the right place for lots of support.   I know how hard it is to have this need for a baby and not to be able to talk to people about it. It's a pain we no doubt all share. I would suggest there is no harm in a second opinion so why not try talking to a clinic to get another view? It might help you to know what is available. It doesn't have to be the end as many people on here would testify. Hope that helps a little xx


----------



## Kris76

Hi Ladies

Hope you are all well...as well as can be. 

Haha CeCe, love the disco dancers. Time is flying by, I can't believe you are 21 weeks!  I wish you the best of luck with your test.  I'm ok with DE acceptance...I think. How are your renovations coming along?

Bics, thank goodness everything is ok.  I completely understand the worry about the pregnancy.  I would be exactly the same. It's so hard after all the heartache. Very happy to hear that all is well and that you have the support of the midwife. 
Now is a good time to buy Bics.  We went to a property seminar last night talking about the 5 year forecast.  Thanks to bloody Brexit, the market has significantly dropped. They say it will recover by 2021.  We are struggling to sell our lovely West London flat and have had the new house sitting empty since February.  More stress, great, just pile it on to the rest. 

Hi Magic, I hope you had a great trip to Scotland.  It definitely sounds like DE will happen sooner rather later. Did you have to go for a counselling session?

Syd, how is honkers?  When do you plan on going on maternity leave?

Onelastchance, I am so sorry to hear.  I know how heartbreaking it is when you don't respond well to the stimms. Why wouldn't your GP refer you for fertility treatment?  Congrats on it working for your son.  Lucky you. Have you spoken to any private clinics?  They will probably be able to offer you closer monitoring.  What meds did the NHS have you on?  I wish you luck. 

Hi Efi, thanks. We are doing so many cycles because I felt that I don't have a choice.  I would rather not be doing it, it's awful and has wiped out all our savings. However, we just can't get pregnant naturally and I feel that I am running out of time. I have had lots of test, including a very expensive immunology test and nothing has been flagged but my age.  My OH was given the all clear too, he has 317mm sperm per ml. It has been chalked down to old eggs that are now mainly chromosomally abnormal. I have a better chance with IVF for the sheer mathematics that I produce more eggs than a natural cycle. So hopefully one of them is normal. 
However, having said that, at our last consultation, my consultant suggested a new endometrial test that has been developed in Spain.  I declined, as it is new, it is invasive, there is no data and it could all just be a crock.  It's unfair that I am always being targeted when there are two of us.  At the beginning of the year, I raised the question of DNA frag test for my OH and my Dr told me not to bother, my OH is absolutely fine. Again, when I had a consultation with another Dr months ago, I raised it again and was absolutely reassured that it can't possibly be my OH and was shot down again.  At my last consultation, I insisted that my OH have a DNA frag test even if they think it is a waste of time. Low and behold, his tests results were not good.  He has a high level of DNA damage and my Dr said that is could very well be the reason for my inability to get pregnant naturally and via IVF.  My brain exploded  .  We were absolutely furious, that I had asked them to and was told no and we have done so many cycles with straight up IVF when that was not appropriate for us.  I still can't get past how angry I am.  So it's not really unexplained or just down to my eggs after all.  So much time we have wasted. My OH has to see a specialist but he could have bloody done so at the beginning of the year.  Now my eggs are 9 months older and who knows how long it will take to implement any changes/treatment for my OH.  
My Dr recommended we do ICSI.  I spoke to the senior embryologist and she said the same thing, ICSI is the only way forward.  Again, furious   as we could've been doing this all along. I cannot articulate how much this has riled me. What on earth are they playing at?

Can I ask Efi, did you miscarry before or after your husband was treated?  By the sounds of it, you are no longer having IVF treatment but are trying naturally?  I really hope it is successful for you both. I'm exhausted by it all. 

AFM, besides the shocking news above.  I trigger tonight and collect on Saturday.  I just hope with every fibre of my being that most of my follicles have a mature egg and some normal ones. 

xx


----------



## Efi78

Hi Kris

One of the same story here. I was insisting to look at the sperm but none did. My miscarriages were before the DNA fragmentation problem. I am not saying that it was 100% that, but it could be. 

Depending on the reason of the problem it can be fixed. I assume you see Dr Ramsay so it can’t get any better.

I am so much wih you Kris. We have thrown so much money in the garbage. Since we had the problem Inhad siggested seeing a urologist. But all gynecologist were very submissive so I was like “ok, i am not a doctor so what do i know”. If we had gone to the doctor when i was 34-35 now we may have had a baby. Honestly...i have lost faith in doctors. 

Kris we have decided to try naturally and we have much less sperm than you. Reason is that chances are the same. I also prefer to listen to my gut feeling this time. I don’t feel that the high dosages of drigs given to older women have positive effect on egg quality. They may be ok for a younger that doesn’t need to such high dosages. I have had 4 IVFs over the course of 6 years, and overall my feeling is that the doctor just prescribe drugs and “see what happens”. Well...we pay too much money and we should be offered better service.

In my opinion take a break from IVF because you have had too many back to back and this takes its toll on a woman’s body. Meet Dr Ramsay. He is a briliant man. It may be as simple as your husband needing a course of antibiotics. In our case hubby had a pituitary tumor which affected his hormones and DNA fragmentation.


----------



## Efi78

I also found this online the other day.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/science/2011/jul/04/ivf-drugs-women-chromosome-eggs

Please don't quote me on this and it's just one article. But remember that in the old days women had children until 45-47. There is no doubt that age is a factor but i do wonder wther inis as big as we have been told.

I am not saying that IVF for older women cannot be succesful. There is 20% chance at 40-43. But still wonder whether all being good the same chances exist if you try naturally for one year. At the end of the day if it happens it happens and I have started realising that it's not something we can control


----------



## onelastchance

Thanks for replying.
Kris76, Feel your pain and frustration. I should have stuck up for myself with the GP, but he just wasn't interested in listening to me. I believed him when he said they wouldn't do anything when we first started TTC and then as I got older he told me we had to have been trying for 5years before they would refer me for fertility treatment or tests and so on.. in those days I believed my GP, now not so much. 

I have since found out I had food intolerances that have made me so very ill, the same GP was not helpful then which is why I gave up and started sorting out my own health issues. I also found out that most of the medication they gave me during all this can reduce your fertility so he clearly wasn't linking the dots on my health and well being. 

As for my son he is amazing, I try to make the most of everyday with him. We are however proof that one good egg is all you need. I hope some of you can take comfort in that? and I do feel a little guilty wanting a second, but this baby ache in my heart just wont go away and I need to know I tried everything I could before I move on seeing as I wasted so much time in the beginning.

I am based in Scotland, can anyone recommend a clinic in Scotland that I could consult?

Has anyone seen or read any of Julia Indichova's books etc? I was told this might be of interest to me but I haven't heard any first hand experiences?


----------



## Bics76

Kris, this is just a very quick one to say best of luck for today lovely. I’ll have everything crossed and will be thinking of you. I’ll come back properly but just wanted to send some love for now. 

Hi and big hugs to everyone else xx


----------



## Tammy177

hi all
I am 43 and about to start my first cycle of IVF or ICSI. I live in Germany and my partner lives abroad (due to family issues). so I have to go through it on my own. 
the doctor is advising me to go for ICSI as it is more precise though my partner does not have problems. but she says that the procedure is more precise.
any feedback on that? does it matter if we go for ICSI or IVF? does natural selection play a better role here?
good luck to you all,
Tammy


----------



## Kris76

Hi Ladies

Yes Efi, we have been recommended to see Dr Ramsay, however, earliest appointment is end of November! Annoying. I understand your reason to try naturally.  I too have read how the drugs can impact egg quality.  I agree that the Drs can just throw drugs your way and hope for the best.  My Dr has put on different things, admitting, he is trying anything to see if it makes a difference. Unfortunately, I just can't take a break as I am 42.5 years old. I don't have time on my side. If I were years younger, sure, I'd take a break. Even my Dr says I can't be taking breaks due to my age.  I hope it works for you naturally. 

Hi OLC.  I know it is easier for me to say than done. It is such a shame your GP is pretty useless. Yes, you are right, just need one good embryo....well hopefully that good one implants. I understand the desire for another baby.  I'm just hoping for one at this stage.  Sorry, don't know anything about Scottish clinics. I don't know who Julia Indichova is. I wish you the best of luck with number 2.

Hi Bics, thanks, appreciate your well wishes.  You're so lovely. 

Hi Tammy, welcome.  That must be very exciting for you to start your first cycle, shame that your partner won't be with you.  As i have said below, we just did ICSI for the first time. I spoke to the senior embryologists and they highly recommend it, as they can select the best swimmers.  They have very good results with ICSI.  If it has been recommended to you, then I would do it. My Dr seemed to think that my partners DNA damaged sperm has played a part in my repeated implantation failure, even though my eggs were successfully fertilising.  If you are going to go through this, then give yourself the best chance possible. It's very hard this side of 40.  Good luck with it all, do let us know how you get along. 

I had collection on Saturday and it went well thankfully.  They collected 8 from my left ovary.  Unfortunately, the cyst in my right ovary is back, and they drained it. I was still very happy with the collection, especially since the last few have only been two or three eggs collected. We did ICSI and 6 fertilised. Tomorrow is day 3 and they will call me to see how many are still going and if the majority of them are, I will have them tested to see if any are normal.  I hope with every fibre of my being that at least a couple of them are. I didn't realise how expensive it is to test.  Madness. I still have one frozen one, not great quality.  I am wondering if I should transfer that one in the meantime.  The lab don't want me to in case I miscarry, however, i think the chances of that is very low. Not sure what to do?

Love to everyone else. Hope you all had a good Monday. xx


----------



## CEce40

Kris, darling, what the hell!! I totally get your anger. I think in that moment I'd be scanning the Doc's desk for a staple-to-the-face or laggy-band-twang-in-the-eye type weaponry!   (obvs don't condone violence, but completely get the raw emotions of feeling like you're doing everything and getting nowhere). Good for you for insisting on the test and fingers crossed that now it's found it makes the difference. Congrats on 8 eggs, from one ovary that's superwoman status to me. I so hope today's call brings excellent news. 

I think we're very similar personality types. I would totally be wanting to just chuck the frostie in there and see what happens. The hanging around was always the worst bit for me. I needed to feel like I was always moving towards the goal. Taking breaks and resting your body are all very positive things but wouldn't have worked for me at all. I always had an eye on my age and just wanted things to happen asap to get out of the hideous limboland. Medically it may not be the best thing to do and I can see why your clinic is advising against it, but I think the science is only part of the whole fertility journey and your emotions/coping mechanisms need to be taking into account as well. Its a difficult one. Only you know what's best for you.  

haha Bics, you little dream. Never mind my positivity, what about yours? it takes huge strength and positivity to go down this road again after your previous loss. I really admire you. Can I ask if there was a medical reason why you lost your precious baby? I'm just wondering if there was something that, now known, can be monitored and minimised in this pregnancy? It must be such a worrying time for you and the bereavement midwife must be a huge support - aren't the NHS brilliant! 

Onelastchance, welcome. Don't feel guilty for wanting a second. This journey is hard enough without the added pressure of comparing ourselves to the pain of others. There's room for everyone; pull up a chair, grab a cup of tea, rip open the hobnobs and get stuck in. No idea about Scottish clinics, I'm afraid, I think most of us on here are London based, unfortunately.

Efi, good luck with trying naturally, really hope it works for you, keep us posted. 

Tammy, welcome. We did 3 rounds of ICSI initially with my own eggs. For our last OE cycle we reviewed the sperm tests and realised they had improved so no need for ICSI. I too thought about natural selection etc so we decided to go for IVF instead, mainly to change things up a bit and try different avenues. The fertilisation rate and outcome was the same for us with ICSI and IVF. We went to Spain for DE treatment and ICSI is standard over there, regardless of sperm quality. I think you may need to go with your gut and do what you think is best for you. Wishing you all the best for your first cycle.

AFM, had my scan last week. We have a very healthy, fidgety and gorgeous boy and girl cooking away beautifully. We're over the moon and completely overwhelmed. It all still seems too good to be true and I am just so so grateful. 

As for the house, the bathroom gets ripped out and extended next week. We've got an architect starting drawings for the downstairs extension so we can hopefully get all planning and building consents before Christmas then start the work next summer - just in time for the bubbas to be rolling around on nails, screaming at the sound of drills and pooing sawdust. total bliss!


----------



## pauli

CEce, so happy to read your updates! Not long to go and you meet them. Hope all goes well also with house renovations 

Kris, you are such an inspiration, well done done on great number of eggs. I understand how you feel about the latest news re. sperm. We had a similar story. Good luck with ET later this week. 

Tootles, how are things with you? Hope all is well with your bubba, fingers crossed. 

Bics, great news... with PGS tested embryo you should be more relaxed but it is impossible. Glad things are looking well. Congratulations on your wedding!

Welcome to new ladies.

I have not been posting much lately but been following your stories. I had 2 cycles this year and sadly 2 miscarriages. With my 43 birthday approaching, it’s time to move DE. We got 5 frozen donor eggs waiting for us. Need to email clinic next and agree when...

Baby dust to all xx


----------



## CEce40

Wow Pauli, big decision. So sorry about your M/Cs, really wish you well with these frosties. If you're anything like me, once I got my head around the DE thing I felt a lot more positive an excited about future outcomes. When are you going to take the leap? exciting times x


----------



## Tootles

Good morning lovely ladies, is it ok if I pop back on here pretty please?  I've been away too long and have missed the chat and support bucket loads. 
Have had a good catch up on the thread. First things first, Kris, I've got steam coming out of my ears for you   My goodness, that's beyond annoying. Its just too easy to stamp age or 'just needing a bit of luck' on us as soon as we reach 40. What really gets my goat is that us ladies, more often than not, seem to be the Guinea pigs for tests, like the one you mentioned, where there's no definitive proof that the results mean anything (other than £ for someone). I'll never forget the pain of the 'scratch' personally which resulted in the worst results we ever had. Sorry to rant!! I really hope the treatment for your OH is swift and effective. Your results for this cycle seem really good - got everything crossed for you.
Pauli - so sorry to hear you've gone through 2 MCs this year.  It's exhausting and draining and upsetting and depressing, which is why I'm so chuffed for you that you're going for DE. It's turning that corner, that really is brilliant. Have you decided when you'll go for it? I turned 43 a couple of weeks ago and it's not so bad, honest (although the presents this year seemed a tad dull!). 
Hi Tammy - good luck on your first cycle. Has your doc given you a medical reason for recommending ICSI as it's often due to something more specific than the suggestion of precision?  I reckon the skill and quality of the embryologists is something to look at too. If you have faith in your Dr go for it, but if you have any doubts at the quality of answers to your questions, maybe get a second opinion from another specialist. 
Hello Onelastchance - I can sooo relate to you. When I was trying to get referred, the 'specialist' Dr at the hospital (responsible for signing off the form to let you do a round on the NHS) was adamant I didn't qualify due to age. When I asked to see the list of qualifications, there it was in black and white - I wasn't too old at all. No apology, just a very red faced Dr. The form was signed and I was shuffled out of the hospital quick smart so as not to cause a scene. I really regret not taking it further, but at the time I was just so desperate to get on with the IVF.  I reckon you should get to a specialist IVF clinic, even if that means you have to travel. Have you looked on the HFEA website at all? There is also a section on the forum for different locations and I'm sure there is one for Scotland.  Sorry I'm rubbish at IT but maybe a mod could send you a link?
Bics - how are you doing honey? Hoping all is well.
Hi Efi - hope the trying naturally is going well. If it encourages you at all, that's how I came to be pregnant after three miscarriages and three rounds of IVF. I'm now lying here at 43 with a growing bump so it does happen, albeit we actually gave up trying and accepted that for us, kids sadly weren't going to happen. So that meant some 'fun' in the bedroom at long last - I'm not talking swings and ropes mind (!!) just less of the missionary position and stuffing pillows under your rear end straight afterwards! Hope whichever way you're doing it, that you're managing to inject some fun as I remember all those days of weeing on sticks and jumping on my OH at the hint of a smiley face - it took its toll for us. Some lacey knick naks and a cheeky smile gave us a boost!
Syd - how's it going? Are you still in Honkers? Would love to hear how you're getting on. Hoping you're doing well and that your Barnet is dealing well with any humidity! And that you aren't working too hard.
Magic - how are things with you? Are you having the DE treatment yet? Hoping so much that all is going well for you. Would be fab to hear from you lovely.
CEce - chick! Can't thank you enough for the message. It got my fat ass into gear to get me back on the forum which is just brill. Over the moon to read your updates and that all is going well. It gives such hope and encouragement to everyone. I remember when this thread went through a dark patch where no one had any positive news so it's just great when it does happen and it can be shared to give much needed positivity.  I longed to read success stories when I was going through it, stuffing my face with avocados and pumping supplements like Pete Doherty on a Saturday night! 
AFM - I'm 17 and a bit weeks now. It's been a struggle, I have to admit. Between puking every 10 minutes, and driving myself loopy with the worry of yet another MC, I've not had much time to enjoy it so far.  Hoping that if I get to 20 weeks I can start to relax a bit more.  Us over 40s ladies can do it though so high five to us 'oldies' who have more stamina, guts and determination than any flippety jibbet in their twenties! 
XXXX


----------



## Efi78

Wow Tootles what wonderful news

I am on the same boat as you. 4 IVFs, 3 miscarriages. We have kind of surrendered to the fact we will live childless. At least we have now reclaimed our sex life which had taken a serious hit. I plead guilty though in terms of OPKs. I still use them. I am aware that chances of conceiving are low but I don’t think with IVF they are higher in my case. I still ovulate, i still produce good hormones, if there are any good eggs left and a sperm manages to reach any then good. 

Cece how inspiring and positive you are. Twins boy and girl...how awsome 

Pauli - good luck with DE cycle. All the best. I am so sorry for your losses. 

Tammy - if your partner has no issues then why do ICSI. Ask your doctor for more detail. I am lso moving to germany in a few months by the way. Exciting times

Onelstchance - good luck to you as well. It’s a very difficult journey

Kris76 - how did the transfer go? Wishing you all the best


----------



## RFairyGodmother

Hi ladies

Tooties- huge congratulations on ur bfp! Enjoyed reading ur post.

Have an appointment next week to sign consent forms and for a scan to check all ok after failed fet recently.  44 do defo last go (I said that last time!) 


Be nice to chat to oyhers along the way!


----------



## miamiamo

RFairyGodmother - wish all the best with yr journey x


----------



## teppar

Hi Ladies. I'm 42, single and about to start my second IVF cycle. First round I had 2 embryos and put 1 back in which didn't take and the 2nd didn't make it to day 5 for freezing. This time I've been on DHEA for many months and the doc wants me to do a scratch. Although my lining was thick and looked so I'm not entirely sure the scratch is necessary. Will think a bit more about that in the next 2 weeks before its time.

Doc is switching me to gonal F too over menopur which I used last time. Anyone switched from menopur to gonal and got better results? I'm a bit worried since I think older women do better on menopur I believe. I only had one working ovary last time bc of a cyst and got 6 follicles, 4 retrieved. I just did a follicle count at my recent cycle to see if the dud ovary is working now that the cyst is gone and got 9 follicles so this better and without stims so I'm guardedly happy (always temper our happiness on this IVF journey don't we...never want to get too excited just in case). Although at this age its quality that matters not quantity I suppose.

Anyway I wanted to join the conversation and see if there was anyone in my boat switching from one med to the other with any luck or general feedback on experience with the meds and a scratch...Oh I'm all over the place....Thanks for reading this far and thanks for any insights.


----------



## Kris76

Hi Ladies

How are you all?

CeCe, boy and a girl!!  How perfect.  I'm so delighted for you.  Wow, so newborns and living in house renovations, you might need to stock up on the wine in advance. 

Hi Pauli, so good to hear from you. I am so sorry about your miscarriages, that is just plain rotten luck. We all know how heartbreaking it is. I feel for you Pauli.  I think DE is the right move, there is only so much you can put yourself through. I understand, I am close to 43 too. I wish you the best of luck and love with this journey. 

Toots, hi. 17 weeks!  I understand the always niggling concern about miscarriage.  If it every works for me, I'm pretty sure I will be a wreck all the way through. Damn straight the over 40s can do it better than these young chicks. This is the one though, the little fighter, destined for this world. 

Hi Teppar, welcome.  I am sorry to hear about your cycle.  I know how crushing non implantation is. I was always on Gonal F and Menopur.  I got some good rounds out of it, however, the last couple were flops and Im now on a new drug entirely. When I added Gonal F to my protocol I got my best round.  Hopefully, it will be the same for you.  Great to hear that the follicle with the cyst has bounced back.  I had a cyst in my right ovary, which I had removed a couple of years ago and follicles don't grow on it anymore.  You're lucky.  That is a great amount of follicles.  You should be very happy with that. You have definitely found the right place for support. 

Hello to everyone else, Bics, how are you? Syd, Efi.  I know I'm forgetting people, its very late and I'm so tired my eyes are rolling in the back of my head. 

AFM, my 6 embryos all made it to blast and were all suitable for PGS testing, however, one was on the cusp but we went for it anyway (it may come back as a non result). I was pretty happy that they all made it and could be tested. Now I play the waiting game.  I really am expecting them to all come back as abnormal.  I have produced about 20 blasts this year and all but one didn't implant.  The one ended in a miscarriage.  So I can only assume that they were all abnormal for them not to implant.  It is pretty f%&*ing unfair that I couldn't get a viable pregnancy from 20 blasts.  I'm hanging on by a thread these days. 
However, I fly out to Melbourne tomorrow, argh, so busy, I haven't even packed yet. I'm glad I didn't transfer and then fly. At least I will be distracted waiting for the results.  I'm dreading the phone call. Looking forward to seeing my family and friends and getting in some beach time. 

Love to all.  xx
PS. how f&%*ing annoying are Meghan and Harry! They have been trying for about 3 minutes.


----------



## Tootles

Kris - I hope you have a fabulous time in Aus. How long are you away for? 6 making it to blast is flipping Bob on! Pllllllease let the tests come back with some good news. I'll be thinking of you lots.  Oh, couldn't agree more about the Markle and Mr Lover-Lover.  Good luck to them, but yeah, proper annoying!

Hi Teppar - sorry to hear that your first go wasn't a success. I'm not a big fan of the scratch. I didn't work for me. It's different for everyone of course but I vowed never to do it again. To say it hurt is a massive understatement! Some ladies say it feels like nothing more than a smear test though (lucky buggers!).  I certainly filled the swear box that day!  I was the opposite to you on the meds and switched from Gonal F to Menopur. I had much better results with Gonal F and was keen to switch back. You can do a combination of both - that was what the specialist was going to do if I had another round of IVF.  You're right in that they 'think' Menopur is better for us oldies but I was told that IVF is still in such infancy that nothing is certain. Gonal F was defo better for me (by a long way) so if you do go for it I hope you find the same. Welcome to the thread by the way!!

Rfairygodmother - I hope your appointment goes well. Do let us know.  Yep, giving it one more go (again) is a familiar occurrence! Good luck - you gotta be in it to win it! 

Efi - glad to hear that you are having fun. It's kind of nice (in such a weird way) when you actually make any decision with fertility isn't it. Be that which meds to use or moving to DE or stopping the treatment. It felt like a bit of a weight was lifted for me, as hard as it was to make the decision in the first place.  Keep up the romance Honey!! 

Hope everyone else is doing well X X


----------



## Syd72

Sorry for the long silence ladies, it seems every time I blink another week has flown by.

Kris, that is just outrageous, I thought we were moving past the whole "it must be the woman's fault", I don't know how I would reconcile how angry I would be, those doctors are a bloody disgrace.  Serum tend to check for dna fragmentation almost routinely and a lot of men have had great success with with the sperm improvement protocol so hopefully it can be sorted quite quickly.  Even more hopefully they won't need to as 6 blasts is fantastic, really looking forward to hearing the update.  Have a great time in Melbourne.

Onelastchance, I don't think you mention how old you are?  There are definitely clinics that work with low reserves, poor response etc.  I'm not sure if Create have a clinic in Scotland but I've heard good things about them.

Cece and Tootles, so glad everything is going well.  Cece, lovely news on a boy and a girl.  Tootles, so sorry you're still being sick.  I think I started to relax more around 24 weeks as that was viability day although still concerned about the risk of early labour, even now to a certain extent.  I've felt sick every day since 11 weeks but fortunately still haven't been sick.

Teppar, fairygodmother and tammy, good luck with your upcoming cycles.

Pauli, so sorry about the miscarriages.  When you have success with donor eggs it really does take some of the miscarriage fear away as you know it's so much less likely to happen.  Hope you're able to start soon.

Hi to anyone I've missed and apologies.

Yep, still in Honkers, only 4 weeks to go til my c section, it's cooling down a little bit now which is great but hair is still a frizzy mess!  I had a fall 10 days ago and have badly sprained my ankle which is making me miserable as it's so flipping painful, need crutches if I leave the flat but manage to hobble around ok inside.  Sleeping isn't that easy thanks to the discomfort and having to hobble to the toilet 5 times a night!  I think my doctor still doesn't think I'll make it to 38 weeks but we'll see, if I do go into labour early I still have to have a c section but depending on when I had my last clexane injection it may end up being under general anaesthetic which is worrying me, this is the only baby I'll ever have, I want to be awake!  Still, what will be will be...


----------



## Efi78

Hi everyone

Kris - 6 blastos is an amazing number! And 20 blastos is super. You must have cery good quality eggs. You mentioned your husband has DNA fragmentation. May I ask the % and how much of it is low DFI (wihin the green range)? To be honest if you produce so many blastos something must be working very well in terms of sperm and egg quality and I assume - i am not a doctor so I can only make assumptions - that there is a possibility implantation failure may be because of something. I imagine you have already checked about blood clotting issues, immune problems, thyroid etc. Good luck with the results. I look forward to hearing the results and I wish you  from the bottom of my heart that one of the 6 is your baby. Oh...and yes..how annoying Meghan and Harry are! lol

Teppar - i have ised both menopur and Gonal F. I had exactly the same response with both. Gonal F is more user friendly of course

Syd72 - 4 weeks to your c- section...wow. Big times. What a journey. I look forward to hearing the beautiful news. 

Tootles - you are my inspiration and I wish you all the best. How is everything going?

AFM - business as usual. I am 5DPO. Nothing new to report

How is everyone else doing? Cece? Fairygodmother, Tammy, Pauli, everyone else?


----------



## pauli

Hello lovely ladies, many thanks for your kind words. It takes time to come to terms with M/C. Only a handful people knew we were TTC / had IVF, and I felt I should tell them about M/C. And it still brings tears just thinking about it. I can't talk about it as I fall apart...  

Kris, agree with other ladies, 6 blasts is an amazing number from one cycle! There must be AT LEAST one good one among them. I understand why you are doing PGS and it makes sense if you have so many. Hopefully you have a good news soon! Enjoy the trip. 

Tootles, great news from you. Sorry to hear about your sickness but soon you will forget all about it ;-) Are you going to find out if it is a girl or a boy? Please keep coming back with your updates, you are flying the flag high for over 40s ladies trying naturally!    

Syd, the time has flown by! Hope the C section goes well and if you find time once baby is here, it would be great to hear from you. 

Teppar, I had Menopur only on my first cycle, on the following cycles I did combination of both Gonal F and Monupur. Got slightly better results in terms of number of blasts, but not sure about the impact on the the quality of the eggs. Sometimes you need to try both to see what works better for you as our bodies are different. Good luck with your cycle! 

Efi, you are ONLY 40! Look at Tootles, she has done it naturally. I believe that there are still good eggs there! We have a sperm problem, so natural conception is not an option for us unfortunately. Hope you do not have to wait for BFP too much longer. 

Cece, taking the big step towards DE in January. That's the plan. I emailed the clinic to confirm with them, they emailed back that I need to get saline ultrasound and endometrial biopsy!! The clinic is in the US, so they told me to get these test a month before Tx with DE. Did you need those before your DE treatment? 

Never had the saline ultrasound, but I guess somehow I will be able to survive that. Any recommendations where to go in London area, ladies? But not really feeling up to having endometrial biopsy. I had it twice during egg collection (I did not even know until after when I received the result). It is probably not the most pleasant procedure if done while fully conscious. Not sure what to do yet... any of you had this biopsy and where? Many thanks. 

Btw, could not agree more with you ladies re. royal pregnancy, very annoying ... they were tying like 5 mins But all the best to all pregnant ladies, including Megan... even if it makes me slightly jealous. 

xx


----------



## CEce40

Hi all - it's nearly Halloween, how the blooming 'eck did that happen?!

Pauli, Jan start, how exciting. I didn't have any extra tests and have no idea what those two are, I'm afraid. It boggles my mind just how differently each clinic does things. 

Syd, how crappy to have done your ankle in. Did the bump unbalance you? I just can't seem to get used to my ever expanding dimensions. I walked down the aisle of the DLR yesterday and whacked a poor guy on the back of his head with my belly. I need wide load warning lights. Fingers crossed your leg gets better and you make it to 38 weeks, I completely understand about not wanting a general, but hey, as you say, it's the end product that matters. Hang in there, lovely. Not long to go now.

Kris, do you ever sit still? I can't keep track of your travels, you must be permanently jet lagged. Hope you manage to relax in Melbs and not driving yourself crazy waiting for the call. You're right, 20 blasts with nothing to show for it is bloody unfair. I feel for you. 

Tootles, babe, welcome back. Hope the sickness does one soon.

Efi, congrats on rekindling the bedroom sparkle. 

AFM, past the viability point now, which is a bit surreal. Our bathroom was ripped out last week. We're still flushing with a bucket till Friday, but then should be done. It makes the nocturnal pee trips slightly interesting, no loo seat, toilet sat loosely on the floor, it's definitely a test of my pelvic floor. Then comes the big paint job. Spare room done, hallway next, bathroom then start on the nursery. As long as the bump doesn't shoot out further than my paint roller we'll be fine. 

Hi to everyone else.


----------



## Efi78

Pauly

In terms of endometrial biopsy can’t you just use the results from the previous done?


----------



## Syd72

Efi, good luck, how are you feeling?

Pauli, I've had a saline ultrasound, did it at Serum.  I was really worried about it because I'd had a scratch previously (completely different I know) which I found soooo painful.  The saline ultrasound wasn't even remotely uncomfortable, it was absolutely fine.  I haven't had a biopsy.

Cece, viability day was huge for me, congratulations   And good luck with the renovations!

Little update from me, went to an orthopedic doctor on Monday, two weeks after the fall, he sent me for an MRI as he was sure I'd broken my leg and, sure enough, I have...  Displaced spiral fracture of the fibula and complete tear of the tendon.  I now have to have an operation next week to have a plate put into my leg, two weeks before my c section.  Really not happy right now.

Hi to everyone else x


----------



## Efi78

Syd72 I m so sorry. Really bad luck. I hope all goes well and you are being properly taken care of. 

When is your c-section?

AFM - I am ok. I am 10DPO and have slight spotting. My luteal phase is 13-14 days so I am wondering whether it is too elry for spotting and should be checking progesterone levels. My RE said that i do ovulate and produce enough progesterone but suggested another test to check how strong my ovulation is which is basically taking bloods every three days after ovulation. I didn’t have the chance to do the test during the last two months because of travelling but I might do it this month. In the meantime he has prescribed cyclogest 400mg per day. I wonder why the spotting though. I don’t think it’s implantation as was bright red and boobs habe stopped hurting this AF rather on the way. It’s just very strange. During the last year, after my unsuccessful FET my ovulation day went from CD 15-16 to CD 12-13 and luteal phase incresed to 14 from 12 days but spotting starts on day 10...hmm. Maybe I am just getting older.


----------



## magicpillow

Hi ladies, gosh I've fallen to behind with everyone's updates.  
Kris I'm rooting for you - you've been such a trooper to go through round after round.  Hope the wait for PGS results isn't too agonising. 

Loving hearing how things are going for you tootles - still so inspired by your pregnancy.  

Pauli, we have severe male factor too so natural conception is not possible for us either.  I have to say I am v jealous of Meghan getting pregnant so easily. Grrr

Syd I'm gutted for you re your broken leg.  Big hugs lovely; can't believe the timing. 

As for me, I'm just still on the Lister donor egg waiting list.  Next month I should hear about my monitoring cycle.  As they said approx 6 months to be matched, that should take me to about Feb.  I expect it's probably then another couple of months to start so I'm not anticipating doing treatment until about April.  I'm starting to get quite impatient as it's nearly a year since I last went through IVF and I really feel like I want to be pregnant again or at least be doing something soon.  Having said that, my diet has been crap recently and I'm a good 2 stone overweight.  I'm going to the fertility show on 3rd Nov which i actually went to 4 years ago but this time i wanted to go to have a free consultation with IVF Spain.  Managed to persuade hubby to come.  I said I just wanted a second opinion about the way forward.  Slight lie as really I'm secretly hoping that if my Lister cycle doesn't work, we can go there.  So far hubby says that this next cycle at the Lister is the absolute last which scares me.  Really hoping it'll work out.


----------



## magicpillow

I keep thinking about changing jobs and I've seen one that I'm interested in.  It's so hard though thinking of whether to be starting a new job just before IVF.  I'm not that keen on my current job and am finding it hard but then it is convenient, close to home, flexible working and I'm 4 days a week.  All the practicalities are good but just not the job!  I'll give it some thought....


----------



## Efi78

Magicpillow I would say go for it. Leave your life as normal and when pregnancy happens then you can make decisions. I will also start applying for roles soon. Hubby will be transfered to Frankfurt soon so I will be looking for a new role there. I hoped of course that I would be a full time mum there but I can’t wait until and if it happens. I have to live my life. 

In terms of donor eggs I have the impression that in Spain there is very short waiting list so maybe better to go straight there. I am not an expert but this is what I have heard.


----------



## Tootles

Yo Ladies

Brrrrrr - isn't it parky?! Hope you've all got your thermals on (apart from you Efi78 - lacey knick-naks all the way)!

Magic - it's a tricky one with jobs. I've always been a complete chicken and have been with the same company for almost 20 years, even at times when I've hated it. It's not done me any favours so I reckon go for it. Life is short, and if you go for a new job and don't like it, you can always apply for others. Six months will fly by (I hope) especially this time of year what with Halloween, bonfire night, Christmas, New Years, Valentine's Day etc....if you can be bothered with it all!  I'm a sucker for a sparkly bauble so am already touring garden centres for tatt that I just can't resist! The Lister has such a great reputation and there is every chance they could match you early. Fingers crossed xx

Efi - cycles are weird things. I'm sure the more we analyse them the more naughty they become. Is an RE a Reproductive Expert? Sorry, I'm still learning the acronyms. Sounds like you're getting really good advice and medical support. Exciting times with you're move to Frankfurt. Hope it's all going well.

Cece - chuffed to bits for you area past the viability Mark! High five to that! My goodness, you are one busy lady.  How are you coping with the smell of the paint? Pretty sure I'd gagging into the Dulux. Credit to you on the old lav front. That's no easy feat. How are you coping with the bump?  Are you slapping on the Bio Oil at all?  I feel like a proper bloater with one, so heaven knows what it must be like with two! Hope the works carry on going well. Are you doing much of it yourselves?

Syd! Oh nooooo! So sorry to hear about your leg. What are the chances of that?! I winced when I read your update. Flipping ouch!! You are one tough cookie to have carried on without knowing it was broken.  That must have been agony. Hope you're feeling as ok as you can do.  I know it must be an anxious time. Roll on getting beyond 38 weeks. I can't believe how quickly the time has gone. Hope you're getting lots of support. If you lived next door I'd be round with a casserole and an apple crumble. I hope Honkers neighbours are being good to you. 

Hi Pauli - it brings tears to my eyes when I read your post. MC is an utter utter git. Let the tears come and hopefully it will help... but also kick walls (not too hard or you'll end up like Syd!), punch pillows and eat cake...anything that might help, although I know that there isn't a magic answer to dealing with it. You can always always share here if it helps. So many of us have been there and I don't think we'll ever forget. Roll on Jan for DE next step. Exciting times ahead. The biopsy is very similar to the scratch (not so exciting!). I think you can ask for light sedation with it. Failing that, paracetamol or a large bottle of something potent! Maybe try the Lister - it seems to have such a great reputation.

AFM - having a wobble and have had to stop myself from buying a Doppler today.  Paranoia about not having symptoms or feeling anything. I think I'll have these worries for a while yet. Guess it's a hangover from MCs. But have had a firm word with myself, and treated my belly to a Toblerone ice cream! Time to binge on box sets and avoid flipping Google! Roll on 20 weeks and the viability scan.

Hi to everyone else xxxxx


----------



## Efi78

Tootles!

So nice to hear from you. Remind me how many weeks are you? Have you found out whether it’s a boy or a girl?

RE stands for Reproductive Endocrinologist I believe. So mny acronyms in the fertility world!


----------



## miamiamo

magicpillow - I fully agree with what Efi78 has written. Live your life to the fullest potential, and fight for your dreams - Ashley Smith


----------



## naneal

Hello Ladies,

I'd like to join your thread. I'm about to turn 42 in a few days and tic toc time has flown by. I've had 4 BFN ICSIs 10 years ago in a previous relationship. Now I've done a cycle with my own eggs, and FET in the past year, both BFN. We've turned towards ED in Spain (I read that a few of you are considering this path...). I've been preping these past two weeks and will fly out to Barcelona on Wednesday for a transfer on Friday. Isn't it exciting when that time finally comes around?

I'll be catching up with you all with time. Looking forward to sharing part of this journey with you all!

Baby dust to you all!


----------



## naneal

Hello everyone!

I was wondering if any of you have used anticoagulant during your cycles?

Thanks!


----------



## Efi78

Hi naneal

I have factor Leiden V so i was using clexane and baby aspirin


----------



## naneal

Hey!

How is everyone doing?

Thanks Efi78.

In the previous clinic where I had treatment, we had to take clexane every day from the day prior to transfer to .... well, I think the first trimester. 
In the clinic now, they do not require that and I am just worried that things would work out if I did take clexane. I don't have a coag issue.


----------



## Efi78

Hi naneal

If you have checked and verified that you don’t have a clog issue then better not to take the drug. 

Even for me it is an overkill as I am heterozygous and never had a clot in my life. We already take too many drugs.


----------



## Bics76

Hi All, 

I have been away for far too long (sorry) and now have a lot of catching up to do! I will come back properly once I have re-read everything and worked out where everyone is at  For now though, I wanted to say hi to everyone new (and absolute best of luck) and some quick mentions. Syd, I think you are due next week, is that right?? Hope that your bub has managed to hold on to 38 weeks and so sorry to hear about your leg operation - the absolute last thing you need! I hope it went ok. 

Kris, I know how excruciating and nerve wracking the wait for PGS results is. I hope it hasn't been too awful and that you have managed to have a lovely time in Oz, and I really, really hope that the results are good. I have been thinking of you x

I will catch up on everyone else's news and come back properly. 

Hugs to all xx


----------



## Syd72

Bics, lovely to hear from you. I am indeed due next week, or rather c section is booked for next week, Wednesday. Still doesn’t feel real.

Naneal, my clinic’s standard protocol is to put everyone on blood thinners from transfer for first 12 weeks. I don’t have any known blood clotting disorders but have had a blood clot before so I went back on clexane at 20ish weeks and have stars on. There is also a school of thought that it helps maintain a healthy blood supply from the placenta. If your current clinic don’t do that then I would go with what they say, generally I prefer to follow the experts even though it does change clinic to clinic  I hope transfer went well.

Tootles, totally understand the wobble, happens a lot! When is the 20 week scan? I found even when I got past viability the wobbles don’t really stop, they just change, you go from constantly worrying about mc to worrying about early labour. I’m now 37 weeks with one week to go to my c section and if anything worrying even more now that something is going to go wrong in the last week. I guess the worries don’t stop once they’re born either... I wish you lived next door! I’d love a casserole and an apple crumble 

Magic, I would also say go for it with the job. I feel very trapped on my job now, been with the same company a long time and although I used to love it I really don’t now and haven’t for a long time but the pay and benefits are excellent and I have huge flexibility so I stay but I do feel trapped and miss doing a job I love.

Efi, I always spot before my period, anything up to 5 or 6 days on the lead up to every period and have done for about 15 years. Progesterone tests have all been good and no other cause has ever been found, I had four natural pregnancies and don’t think any of those ended due to low progesterone but certainly taking additional progesterone can’t hurt.

Afm, ended up staying in hospital for 6 days with my leg, was so happy to get home yesterday. I have exactly one week til i’m back in for my csection, leg is slightly sore but not bad at all. I can hobble around indoors ok and just need a crutch when outside for additional support, no cast or boot. Having the op done without any sedation and just a spinal was no issue at all in the end although I was terrified going in, first spinal didn’t work so they had to do a second, I do feel a bit prepared now for the spinal next week  

Hi to everyone i’ve Missed xx


----------



## Efi78

Cycle day 16 and still flashing smile? What the hell. This has never happened to me before. 

The latest I have ever tested positive is day 18. i fell pregnant on that cycle and then miscarried. As if there ws any chance it would stick. I am so disappointed and worried that I have started having unovulatory cycles. No idea if i ovulated, when I ovulated and when period should come. I never temped because ovulation signs were always so obvious. OPK, cervical mucus, brest pain on the sides. First time ever I don’t have a clue. 

Anyway. Continuing having intercourse every other day. So disappointed. I may haven’t ovulated this month.

How is everyone else? 

Kris76 did you receive the PGS results?

Cece40 how are your beautiful twins?

Syd72 your c-section is in a few days? 

Magicpillow - how is it going with the donor waiting list?

Tootles - how is your pregnancy going?

Hello to everyone else and looking forward to your news


----------



## CEce40

Hi guys, 

Syd, best of luck for today. So exciting that the first of our merry gang is in the delivery room. Can't believe you had a full on op a week ago. Hope your foot is better now, you'll be run ragged from now on. 

Efi, hope the ovulation sticks are being good to you today. I never got on with them, always seemed to be a bit wayward with me

Naneal, welcome, congrats on your DE transfer. I went Spanish for my DE treatment and all looking great so far, so keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Tootles, hope the worries are melting away. When's the 20 week scan? Yep, we're doing most of the decorating ourselves. Think myy mat leave will consist of glossing doors until the bubs make an appearance. The smell's not too bad, but the radiator paint really stinks so I definitely pass on that job. 

Magicpillow, how was the fertility show? any decisions on whether to stay with the Lister or switch to Spain?

AFM, 28 weeks now. Had another scan yesterday and the boy's a total bruiser, 2lb 11 already. 2lb 4 for the girl so both doing really well. I'm starting to feel the exhaustion creeping back in again now, counting down till I finish work which is only another couple of weeks thankfully. Still zero purchases up to now so have lots of shopping to do. Twin webinar tonight so hoping to work out what on earth we actually need and get some tiny insight into life as an instant family of 4. 

Hi to everyone else x


----------



## Tootles

Morning! 
Just a quickie from me.
Syd - Hope everything is going well. How are you doing? Sending much love x 
CEce40 - gosh you have a couple of growers there! How was the webinar? Hope it gave you some answers as to what you need. I saw 2 ladies with twins at the hospital. One had a pram like a bunk bed and she was swishing about at speed, and the other had a sort of side by side one which was huge and she couldn't get anywhere! How is the tiredness? Hope not too debilitating.
Efi - how's it going? Any news from you? Could you have just had some defective ovulation sticks? Hope it's not causing any stress lovely.
Magic - hope you're ok. Any decision on the job front?
AFM - all going well here and I'm feeling much less worried. The only thing to moan about is the number of teenagers at the hospital when I go for scans. It's like being back at school. I guess one good thing about being more mature is that I've had a career and a lot of 'life'!


----------



## Efi78

Tootles! So nice to hear from you! You are my inspiration. Glad your pregnancy is going smoothly. Have you found out the sex of the baby?

Cece - all the best with your pregnancy

Syd72 - looking forwtd to the baby announcement!

Naneal - all the best with your trnsfer. Keep us posted

Magicpillow - have you thought of trying Spain for donor eggs? I understand they have shorter waiting list

BTW it’s such a coincidence. Me, Kris76 and Magicpillow have the same doctor (JN).

AFM - i have side breasts pain which means ovulation did happen around CD 14-15. fingers crossed. I have a feeling that this is not our month. But I also have a strong feeling that it will be very soon. Don’t know why, just instict I guess. It’s so weird. With my previous two natural pregnancies I had a strong feeling it would happen soon. With my first one I had a negative feeling that something is wrong. And it was. With the second one though I didn’t see the missed miscarriage coming nor with the third one which was IVF. Sigh...there is nothing I can do. Whatever will be will be. We have enough healthy sperm, I am still fertile and ovulate monthly, i know I can fall pregnant, I have corrected my TSH nd take aspirin for Factor Leiden V, we have sex regularly, i have 0 stress. Whatever will be will be. Baby dust to all of us


----------



## Syd72

Hi ladies, just a quickie to report that I had a beautiful baby boy on Wednesday by planned c section. I was 38+1, the csection experience was incredible, would barely know I’d had an op the way I’m feeling today. I feel totally overwhelmed with emotion and so in love. To anyone considering the donor route, all I can tell you is that, despite feeling quite detached through the pregnancy (I think due to previous losses rather than anything to do with it being donor) I now honestly wouldn’t want it any other way, I wouldn’t go back and use my own eggs if I could because then I wouldn’t have this little boy.

Will be back to check up on you all and do personals when i’ve had some sleep next week.


----------



## Efi78

Syd72

Congratulations!Wishing you all the best for your family . Let us know how the little one is doing


----------



## miamiamo

Syd72 - massive congrats xx


----------



## Laquinn

Just popping on to say a huge congrats to Syd - had a wee cry when I read your update - that is just so lovely to hear! xx


----------



## pauli

Many congratulations Syd!! So glad all went fine xx


----------



## esj

Absolutely wonderful news syd!!! 
So so happy for you. Inspiring. Lots of love xxx


----------



## magicpillow

Syd I am so so happy for you!  Huge congratulations!!


----------



## magicpillow

Will catch up with all your news later in the week.  Crazy busy at work at the mo!  Still on the donor waiting list at the Lister, probably won't be match for a good couple more months or more.  I'm estimating treatment will be in April but will see.  I'm getting so tired of the waiting and have considered Spain but I think I want to try in the UK due to the anonymity side of things being more open here and just knowing a bit more about the donors first.  Still considering Spain though.  Although I'm desperate to get going, I also massively need to lose weight and get healthier!


----------



## Efi78

Hi magicpillow

In terms of losing weight I would advice you to try a nutritionist instead of trying on your own. I visited one about one year ago and managed since then to lose 6 kilos of pure fat and gain 2 kilos of muscle on diet alone.
It’s amazing how much they teach you in terms of nutrition. I realised I was making so may mistakes and couldn’t lose weight. It’s not about how many calories you consume. It’s more around what you eat. I have changed completely  my diet and it has now become a way of life. No way the weight will come back.

All the best with the waiting list at the Lister. I need to reach out to Dr Nicopoullos to discuss FET in January. Ihoped this would be back up plan in case we don’t conceive naturally. We have two more tries until the new year. If not then I will transfer. I don’t have high hopes but since it’s there better to use it.


----------



## Tootles

SYDDDDDDDD!!! Huge great big chunky sparkly bright CONGRATULATIONS  

Chuffed to bits to read your news. Hope you are doing well. Your experience sounds amazing. How's the little chap doing? How are you doing? Would love to hear all about your C section experience X X 

Big Love to everyone else. It's our first baby on this thread! Go go us over 40's! We can do it!


----------



## CEce40

Amazing news Syd, so many congrats to you both. Enjoy every minute of it x


----------



## teppar

Hey ladies. About to start my 2nd round. I had one failed cycle, one cancelled cycled and here we are. So technically this is 3 or 2.5. Anyway....had a question about how your doctors handle things. Do your docs ask you to take the fertility blood tests for every cycle? My doc doesn’t and I’m wondering if that’s weird. Would love to know how it is for others.


----------



## Bics76

Congratulations Syd!!!   What lovely news   So happy that you and your little fella are doing well. Can't wait to hear all about him and hope you are feeling ok. Enjoy him   Love and very big hugs xx


----------



## Kris76

Hellooooo ladies!!

Syd, a massive congratulations on your baby boy!!!  I am over the moon to hear that he has turned up safe and sound, also that your c-section went well. So super exciting.  It is so wonderful, I am really happy for you...currently beaming as I type.  You're an inspiration to us. Can you add pictures on this thing?  Would love to see his gorgeousness. Hope you both settle in well and look forward to hearing more. xxx

Tootles, great to hear updates from yourself.  Can completely understand the nerves, I would be the same. However, very happy that you and bubs are doing well and he/she is cooking nicely. 

CeCe, wow 28 weeks flew by.  All happening for you with the renos.  I best you can't wait to have that all done....and a flushing loo.  Ive been there with throwing water down the loo.  When we did our bathroom last year, for a short time, we didn't even have that and I had to wee in a bucket, I also used my left over travel johns from Glastonbury.  Lucky the gym is nearby and we went there for number 2's!  
Your babies are growing nicely, great weight. Good luck with all the purchasing. 

Bics, how are you feeling??

Magic, I feel for you.  I understand your position and wanting to be moving forward. The fertility show is great and hopefully, after speaking to the Spain clinic you will have more of an idea if you want to do it there or stay in the UK. As for the job, I was in the same position, had a job that I didn't enjoy but the flexibility was great and I hung on for a lot longer than I should have.  I did leave it and it was the best decision I made. I did that at a time that I thought I would be pregnant soon after, so don't let that stop you. Also, I have a lot more flexibility now than I did before. So you never know. 

Efi, its great to hear that you are feeling so positive that it will happen soon.  I think its important to listen to your instincts.  You're trying naturally, however, you mentioned you need to contact James to arrange a FET, so you have frozen embryo's too?  How many do you have?  As for ovulation, I thought I knew when I did.  However, after a while of trying naturally, before IVF, I got the little machine to track my ovulation and I was days off from what I thought.  Also, my ovulation days were out by a couple of days each month, it was never the same. I think using the ovulation sticks is helpful. Good luck, I hope you it does happen for you soon.  Yes, it is funny that me, you and magic have the same Dr. I think he thinks I'm bonkers.

AFM, well I was back in Melbourne.  Great to see everyone, be in short sleeves and go to the beach.  My gran is having crazy hallucinations, I think I just want to be euthanised when I get to a certain age. I was due to find out the PGS results while in Melbourne.  That was a hideous wait and I was plenty distracted.  We were expecting the worst, as I have produced 20 blasts since December and still no baby!  I figure all my embryos are abnormal, as I am 150 years old. When the lab called my legs went out from under me. From 6 blasts, 1 came back as normal. I was happy and sad at the same time.  So relieved that I at least got one but sad that my other 5 will be discarded. It seems like such a waste. I know some will think only getting 1 is not a good result but I could've got none. Better than a kick in the teeth. Not that this 1 is a guarantee. 
Since I am a glutton for punishment, I decided to another fresh round in hope that I can get one more normal embryo before I transfer. It was also the first time we did ICSI and I am hoping that also made the difference. I can't say for certain as I have never tested any of the others before. My Dr doesn't seem to think it is an implantation issue, as one took, even though it ended up as a miscarriage. He suggested the ERA test as Ive had so many failures, it is expensive and I can't find any conclusive evidence that it makes a difference. My Dr says that of the women that have had the ERA test 20% are found to have an abnormal ERA and the transfer day has been adjusted. I don't know.  Does anyone have any experience with it?
I'm not having the best of cycles, not as many follicles as my last round.  Not feeling very confident.  It is madness how much it varies.  I collect on Wednesday and I would just about give anything to get one more normal embryo. Ill test what I get, and I will transfer my normal one next year. Last xmas eve was when I got my first negative result and i cried all of xmas day, it was the pits.  Don't really want to go through that again. 

That's where I'm at.  I am absolutely sick to death of doing IVF.  I have done so many rounds this year. Completely over it. 

Hello to the new ladies on here and anyone I have forgotten. 

xxx


----------



## Tootles

Hi Kris - great to hear from you as have been wondering how you've been doing.  I'm soo happy for you that you have a good one!  I know you'd hoped for more but just to have one proves that you do have, and can produce, good ones and that's really great.  I hope this next cycle gives you more.  Good luck for Wednesday.  You've been such a brilliant trooper doing all these cycles. Credit to you as its not flipping easy!  Defo can relate to IVF being particularly pants at Christmas time. I miscarried on 27th December last year which was just like an extra kick in the nuts.  You have this lovely little normal embryo to look forwards to this time.  I hope you can enjoy the run up. 

Hi Teppar - welcome! No my doc didn't do tests each time.  The differences between approaches still amazes me. Good luck with your cycle. 

Hope everyone else is doing well.  Did anyone read the recent stuff in the press about that couple suing their IVF clinic for selling add-ons with no proof they'd work?  Not really sure what to think of that.  Guess you've got to try stuff but I do agree that there seems to be a lot of selling going on.  

X


----------



## Kris76

Thanks Toots. That's what we are hanging on to, that we can still produce a normal embryo, even though I feel like I have done 7 back to back Tough Mudders to get there. Oh God, a mc at xmas time is hideous. The group has done pretty well this year, Syd, you, Bics, CeCE, Im hoping we all get there. 

Hi Teppar, sorry, I forgot to say earlier that I don't have fertility blood tests with each round...I'm at the Lister. I don't think any of the clinics do that. It's not necessary.  I had to update a couple of tests recently but that's about it. 

xx


----------



## magicpillow

Great to  hear from you Kris.  So glad there was one normal embryo thank god but also gutted for you at the same time that there weren't more given the lengths you've gone through.  You're an absolute warrior.  Really hoping the current round gets you at least another one to transfer.  You must be utterly exhausted.  I'm afraid I don't know anything about the ERA.  Christmas can be such a hard time with the emotions around ttc etc.  Back in 2015 we got a BFP on xmas eve after our first round which I then miscarried later on.  Then last year we tested on 27th after round 4 which was a BFP which I lost again.  It's hard to think about. 

As for me, we have a plan!  Going to go ahead with the Lister for the donor egg / egg share round and then if that doesn't work, hubby agreed we could then try in Spain.  I feel really happy about this as it's kind of what i wanted to do but I thought hubby was fixed on one more go only.  I got a bit worried about someone's post on the egg share board about a recent bad experience at the Lister for egg donation where the donor got 20 eggs of which she kept 10 but then the other 10 were actually split between this lady and another recipient so she only got 5.  2 were immature and only one fertilised properly which was a bfn.  Such a lottery.  

Lister got in touch with me as I'm moving up the list so I can go ahead with the monitored cycle.  Hoping to go up next week to get the ball rolling with that and have all my NK cells testing etc.  Need to get the weight off now!  Work is so so stressful so I'm still not sure what to do about that.  I had to leave my desk and go and cry in one of the meeting pods today.  Feel so out of my depth and because everyone's been leaving or going on mat leave there is more to do for the rest of us.  Will just see.  The money is so handy!


----------



## Bics76

Hello all!

I have been (totally) rubbish but am jumping on now to try and catch up!

Kris, I'm so happy to hear from you and that is GREAT news about your normal embryo! I was in exactly the same position, I sent off 6 embryos for testing and only 1 came back as normal. I was pretty over the moon with that, as I had really expected that they would all come back abnormal. I was also shaking when I got the call. It's a really awful wait isn't it? I think you haved totally the right attitude to be pleased. When I read the report about my embroys I saw that the others had quite big chromosonal issues which explained me getting chemicals each month. When I thought of it that way, it made one normal embryo seem like even more of a miracle. And it worked! It also makes you realise that there are still normal eggs at our age, which made those months of trying naturally also not seem like the ridiculous idea some would say it is. It's possible! 

An extra round is a good plan too. I will be keeping everything crossed that you get another normal embryo. I have utter admiration for you. You have been through so much this year, so a well needed lovely IVF-free xmas sounds like a great plan. And lots to look forward to in the New Year   I'm sorfry to hear about your Granny. That's must be tough. Glad you had a nice time in Oz though. 

(Sorry, I don't even know what ERA is!!). 


Tootles! Sounds like thing are going brilliantly!   I think we are pretty much at the same stage. I will be 24 weeks on Thursday, which feels like a small milestone as it is viability. I am still nervous as hell, but it is seeming real now. 

Magic - your plan sounds great and I am so pleased that you are happy with it and ready to crack on. Exciting! I can relate to the job stuff. I stayed in my job for years while hating it. The hours were brutal, there was loads of politics and I just didn't want to be there. (Also did the cry in the loos so no one saw me thing, wash face then return to desk with a smile while grimacing inside! ). I kept hoping I would get pregnant and then I was doing IVF so it never seemed like the right time to go. It's a really hard decision. I managed to hold on and was very grateful for the MAT leave and pay when I got it, but I look back and realise how miserable I was at the time. 

Hi Teppar - good luck for this cycle. We didn't have blood tests from what I can remember, but my doc made us both do this high vitamin regime thing for 6+ weeks before, which I think may have helped. 

Cece - hope the renovations continue to go well! So happy that your bubs are doing and growing so well. My scans are showing that this is a big baby! 80th percentile!   Very weird as my little boy was 25th throughout and is still tiny, and my baby I lost was really tiny - he was born at 4lbs 10. I am so much bigger this time! I managed to not look pregnant till around 30 weeks last time. No way in hell this time!  

Syd, hope you are not too shattered and that you are in a wonderful blissful bubble of newborn love  

As for me, I am doing ol. Baby is doing well so far, which is great. Naturally, I am still anxious and this feels like the longest pregnancy in the world! It is very hard to be pregnant and grieving for my baby boy at the same time - everything is a painful reminder. But I am very grateful, and I am surprised to be excited, not just very, very scared! (Still too nervous to buy anything and don't think I will but that's fine). I am hoping time speeds up a little in the run up to Christmas. 

Just a thought about OPKS. Efi, I also had the flashing face clear blue thing. For 20 days!! I just kept on going (poor hubby!) and that was actually the month I got pregnant after starting to TTC again (ended in a MC sadly). The thing I discovered after sinking an unbelievable amount of money on them, was that, for me, the pink CB digital OPKS were better. With the flash, you never quite know when you are about to ovulate and if it flashes for days and days, it's hard to keep going and you don't want to stop TTC in case you miss ovulation. If you use the pink ones and keep them each day you will see that the 2 lines get darker and darker until they are basically the same colour at or the day before ovulation. I started from a couple of days after my period ended. (It often did this overnight, suddenly went from very faint lines to 2 dark ones). This doesn't work with the purple flashing ones. It meant that I was able to use them each day and then as soon as they started to get dark I would TTC. I had a chemical every month for 6 months (heartbreaking), so for me at least it seemed to work perfectly for timing. I also checked against the flashing ones (did I mention I spent a fortune?) and they would always correspond to ovulation. Sorry that was an epic tale, and of course these things are unique to the person. But I read about someone suggesting the pink ones for this reason to avoid losing your mind with flashing faces, so it clearly works for some! 

Sending big hugs to all. I'm sorry for anyone I forgot xx


----------



## bevoir78

Hi Ladies

I started reading this tread but it took me a while to get through the first 16 pages so thought i'd skip to the end. I was little worried at the start as things didn't seem to be going well but skipping to the end was well worth it. Congratulations to Syd, Tootles & CEce you ladies give me hope! I have to say it was so nice to read the supportive messages you all sent one another. I've never joined a forum but this seems like a great place to be able to vent/question with like minded people.

So I turned 40 in August. We have been trying since October 17 and nothing so doctors have referred me for IVF on the NHS. Which is exciting and nerve racking all at the same time. I'm at the stage where I have to choose a clinic. The list they have given me consist of clinics that are all at least 45 mins from home. Sounds silly, but I kind of wish they hadn't given me a choice, as i'm worried I will choose the wrong one! I live near Stansted and they have given me a choice of 5 London ones, one in Cambridge and on in Colchester. Does anyone have any experience of Bourn Hall Cambridge? I'm leaning towards that one as it looks like the easiest option but It would mean a 45 min drive to there and then and hour and a half drive to work. How often during a treatment cycle do you have to attend the clinic? Someone said to me every other day which would make for a lot of stressful commuting. 

I have no real clue what i'm about to go through so any advice would be gratefully received. 

xx


----------



## miamiamo

Hi Teppar - from what I remeber I also didn't have tests each time x


----------



## Tootles

Hi Bevior - welcome to the thread. The best place that no one really wants to be!

The choice can be a bit overwhelming, with the worry about just getting it right. Have you had a look on the HFEA website? It rates each clinic. There is also a regional section on this website which i found really useful.  I think Bourn Hall is highly regarded as it was where the first IVF baby came from. Doesn't necessarily make it the best but that's not a bad accolade. 

Each clinic is different, but mine meant very regular trips for scans during each round so you may find a fair bit of travel involved. 

Defo feel free to vent and ask questions X


----------



## mooncake12

Hi everyone

Like Bevoir, I’ve been reading this thread and following your journeys for a while too and loving the banter and support.

Congrats to Syd, Tootles and anyone else I’ve missed! When I read any posts from Syd I always thought of my sister who is living in HK too with her little one.

I really need some advice, and with all the wisdom between you all I hope you might be able to help. Some of this might be a bit too much info!

I just got home from my first ever IVF cycle with Serum. I’m 42.5 years, never been pregnant. 

Protocol was good, they collected 7 eggs, 4 fertilised. By day 3, only 2 looked OK, 1 was excellent, and had 8 cells, the other was grade 2, looking ok but some fragmentation seen. For reasons I’ll explain below, we waited until day 5 to transfer. On day 5, both embryos had arrested so there was nothing to transfer. Because we did not test for sperm fragmentation this time, we have no idea if the main problem was sperm or egg quality or both. Serum say most likely both and that because of this result, our chances of success are even lower than the average for our age (42-44 years).

Before we had this round, DH (who has type 1 diabetes) had high sperm fragmentation but it improved dramatically following Serum’s protocol and they were very happy with his results. His sperm was tested about 3 weeks before we had this cycle. Two weeks before our cycle, a very close family member was hospitalised for an overdose, which put an increased amount of stress on us. So I did worry this might have an effect on DH’s sperm, but Serum were confident that because his sperm sample for this cycle had great morphology, motility and numbers, and he had recently completed the protocol with good results, that it was all fine. Therefore we decided we did not need to do the sperm frag test again which I’m kicking myself about now.

Secondly after egg collection, I went back to the apartment, had something small to eat, took one of the renal paracetamol suppositories and lay down for a rest. After a while, I got up, and felt very dizzy. I went to my DH and said I was feeling sick and dizzy and within a few moments I’d fainted and collapsed on the floor. I came too a short while later, and could hardly see anything, and was desperate for a number 2 as well as feeling sick. DH helped me to the toilet, to do a number 2 but I still felt sick and could not see anything for a good 10-15 minutes or more. Feeling this terrible I didn’t know what was going on, and my DH phoned Serum who said it was probably a reaction to the anaesthetic and to take some anti- sickness pills. To be honest, I am not sure they took it that seriously.  Eventually I managed to work out that the reason I couldn’t see was because there was no blood in my head, so I put my head down and eventually I could see again and the dizziness got less. That evening, I started getting terrible trapped wind and it ended up right in my upper back and shoulders as well as abdomen. It was too painful to lie down, anytime I rested my back against anything, there was an excruciating pain through my whole torso, like a painful cramp, so I ended up, sitting up on the sofa getting little sleep. This pain and trapped wind and bloated tummy lasted for another 2 days and was worse after eating and at night.

So because I’d been feeling very unwell, and had hardly any energy, when I went to the clinic on day 3, it was suggested that we wait until day 5 to transfer. Scan showed I had a small clot and one ovary was slightly swollen but otherwise I looked fine inside. They also did a blood test. Dr rang me later to say that I had anaemia and to get some liquid iron supplements. Now I’m connecting the dots and thinking this anaemia must have some how caused the fainting episode I had, but I have no idea what triggered it then, and why my low iron levels were never picked up or monitored closely before hand. 

I feel numb and going through a rollercoaster of emotions because of what happened after egg collection (I still feel weak and have trouble with digestion after eating) and having no embryos to transfer. I wondered if you guys had any thoughts on what has happened and the below:

1. Is it unlikely we’d have any future normal embryos due to the results of this round? I found having no embryos to transfer from 7 eggs collected shocking, sad and disheartening.
2. Would you try again with OE one more time?
3. What questions should I be asking Serum to get some learnings from this cycle, and to optimise success for next round? I think next time, we definitely should have sperm frag test, and also my iron levels and other hormones like FSH, oestrogen, progesterone monitored or taken again. I gave them some results from a year ago and they didn’t seem that bothered by it which I found strange.
4. Should I go to my GP or another fertility specialist to find out why I fainted after egg collection and what caused the anaemia? I’m sure I was not anaemic before I went to Athens so I’m worried something in the IVF process has caused it. I was originally seeing a consultant at Lister, who was very nice, but due to costs, we decided to go abroad. I could go and see her - or is that weird if I've cycled elsewhere?
5. Have you ever experienced trapped wind from egg collection?
6. If I had not waited until day 5 to transfer and transferred on day 3 instead, would the excellent embryo have survived or I'd miscarry anyway (since it arrested).

Bevoir - I felt like a duck out of water with this process. Even reading up about things did not prepare me for it (I hate injections). I went to Athens on day 6 of my stims and had a scan every day (which lasts less than 5 minutes) until I took the trigger shot. It definitely helped me to not be at work and to have the clinic within walking distance, but I understand that it is not practical for everyone and everyone deals with stress differently. Feel free to ask anything at all, I think this will really help you keep a bit more sane.

Thanks for reading and any advice wonderful ladies, I really appreciate it.

xx


----------



## Bohemian Rhapsody

Hi Everyone

I'm so glad I found Fertility Friends. I think my husband is weary of my obsessive behaviour around fertility and my ceaseless research and quoting of statistics   


I turn 44 next week and am about to start my first ICSI (OE) in either ARGC or Zita West. I have made an appointment at both clinics to make a choice between them. Initially Zita West said they would not treat me with OE due to my age, but they have said they will review my AFC and AMH and then decide. 


Before meeting my husband I froze a few eggs at Lister (age 3 - in short, they failed to diagnose my PCOS, overstimulated me, then cut off the drugs a week before egg collection and collected 4 eggs instead of the 15 they had anticipated based on earlier scans. They then under stimulated me on the next cycle and abandoned that after all the drugs as no eggs had grown. Nevertheless I stored those first 4 eggs thinking I might need them if I never met someone to have kids with. I 

My husband and I got together when I was 41. I conceived naturally in Jan 2015, but the pregnancy was termination at 13 weeks for T18. Awful awful experience. We then tried in earnest and I had a CP in Sept 2016. 2 weeks before planned IVF at ARGC I conceived naturally and had our son in Nov 2017 (at age nearly 43).

We just tried to use my frozen eggs at a new clinic - Fertility Plus (a satellite of London Women's Clinic) - and none of the eggs survived the thaw. My husband who is a scientist is convinced either the freezing or the thawing wasn't done properly. I was gutted but am less interested in attributing blame and more keen to focus on our upcoming fresh ICSI cycle.

Is anyone here cycling at ARGC or Zita West in January? Does anyone recommend one over the other? I'm also seeing an acupuncturist weekly (and have been for 3 years). She strongly recommended Melanie Brown for nutrition advice. Although I've had a "fertility friendly' diet for some years, I'm going to see Melanie anyway and pay her eye-watering consulting fees. I just want to feel I've tried everything. I should point out I spent my 20s and half of my 30s drinking too much and smoking!

Based on advice from consultants and my acupuncturist, I also take ubiquinol, R Lipoic Acid, 5mg Folic Acid, an all round pre natal (Fertility Smart), Vitamin D spray (Better You) and fish oil (Lion Heart). I am about to supplement this with 75g of DHEA. 

I'd love to hear from any of you about your experiences, past and present!


----------



## teppar

Thanks for the help ladies. I have another question. I’m struggle with the single vs double embryo transfer. Round 1 I had a single that was a BFN and this time I was accepting of a double. But with transfer day tomorrow I’m having second thoughts. I’m single and 42 and while I would like more than one child I’m worried about twins (financially, timewise and being able to enjoy the baby after waiting all this time). As of yesterday (day 3) I had 3 7-8 cell, 1 cell and 1 compacting to blast so I think they are decent embies considering I’m using my own eggs. Would love to know if there are any singletons and what you chose with regards to number of embryos transfered and why.


----------



## miamiamo

Bohemian Rhapsody - I can't help with my personal experiences, I just wanted to wish you good luck and hopefully you find someone on here who can share their experiences xx


----------



## Rillischen

Hi wondering if I can join you ladies. I have just turned 43, single and starting a natural modified IVF Cycle around 1st January (new year, new baby energy I hope 😄). It’s my first cycle so am excited but also nervous. It’s been quite a journey even so far with importing sperm from the US etc. And sometimes quite a lonely one... little excitements like the meds arriving, sperm being delivered etc... not sure other people quite get it understandably 😂 Anyway looking forward to sharing the journey with you and wishing you all lots of luck wherever you are at x


----------



## Helenbeau

Hi Ladies,

Just started on this thread, hello to all. I've just turned 42 and will start my 3rd cycle (had 6 previous transfers, 2 got me pregnant but both ended in MC) at Serum in January. I'm nervous because of MC. This is my last try of OE and I'm wondering now (after buying all the meds) if I shouldn't just go ahead with Donor Egg. Anyway, I'll give it one last shot. I'm single, using donor sperm too.

Rillischen,.... how are you? I thought you must have cycled by now. Are you still going to Denmark? I remember getting the Fed-Ex tracking number for my sperm...funny to think it's flying through the air! hope you are well.

Bohemian Rhapsosdy... Sorry to hear that your frozen eggs didn't make the thaw. That must have been gutting. I've heard this happens quite a lot and there's very little success with freezing eggs as opposed to freezing embryos. Let's hope it's your turn now though and you make lots of embryos. DHEA has mixed reviews. Don't just take it without testing that you might need it, if you haven't already. I think we all spent our 20's and 30's drinking...I mean who didn't, right? Maybe save your money on Melanie Brown and just follow her online advice. I don't think there are any miracle cures, pill or food...I'm sure you do enough already if you are generally a healthy person. I've never been to either of those clinics, but I know they are the more expensive ones. I've heard very mixed opinions aboit ARGC. ARGC has a lot of rules which a lot of women find difficult. They don't let you start a cycle unless your FSH is under 11 (which a lot of us older women won't be) so they will cancel the cycle and you'll have to wait for another month, which could go on for a while.. Other clinics don't care about the FSH and find it makes no difference. Zita West don't have much of a reputation for treating older women, as what they've said to you so it wouldn't be my first choice. It's so hard choosing a clinic. I went to Lister which some people love, but I didn't. I had a much better and much cheaper experience at Reprofit in CR when I was with my partner...I can't go there now as they don't treat single women. Sorry, probably not been much help! 

Mooncake...sorry to hear about your traumatic experience. I am going to Serum and I do think they are good so I wouldn't worry about that too much. First IVF is very much a learning game. It is a stressful experience but you will start to understand your body and fertility better which will help for next time. 
As for the 3 or 5 day transfer, I know it's upsetting that you didn't get to transfer, BUT you may have saved yourself a lot of heartache and a painful TWW. If they arrested before day 5 then they would have done exactly the same inside you. If you get only a few eggs clinics prefer to put the embryos in on day 3, not because they stand a better chance, but because the patient feels less disappointed than if they don't get to transfer anything. It is better to transfer a blast than a day 3 embryo. I will wait and would wait for a day 5 transfer as it will give me better knowledge that the embryos have got further along and still doing well. So don't beat yourself up about that one. I'm sure the clinic must have thought they were progressing well to wait for day 5. The fact they didn't make it is quite common unfortunately  and there isn't always a reason as to why. In fact that is what you'll find with IVF, it doesn't give you answers. 
It is disappointing that you had 7 eggs which didn't end in a transfer...but 7 eggs is actually very good for women of our age and you did get 2 embryos from that...you could have had them transferred which may have made you feel more successful but it could have been false hope. Try not compare with other numbers you might hear other women getting, especially if they're younger. I got 4 eggs on my last try and 1 blast which ended in MC. Those kinds of numbers are kinda what we have to except.
OE or DE...such a difficult one. There is no answer to that. DE has a higher chance of success. You have to ask yourself how quickly you want this to happen and how much can you put yourself and your body through?
I've never heard of ivf causing anaemia...sounds like you could have been very unlucky but best to go to GP to get it tested. The trapped wind is definitely the anaesthetic, it's well known that this can happen. Have you had one before? I also think the renal paracetamol sounds like something to definitely avoid. Never had one myself but anal suppositories can be very strong and maybe it didn't agree with you. See your GP (if they are helpful, some aren't). I don't think seeing another IVF consultant will help too much as I find that IVF consultants can be very arrogant and will say black if another says white. I went to Lister having been to Serum with my hysteroscopy results and they were really rude about it and my all of my previous ivf treatments they critised...like they knew better although I had my worst cycle there!
I don't know much about sperm frag tests but I think Serum were probably right. I can't believe there would be much of an effect after 2 weeks. Did they do ICSI or IVF?
With IVF you can easily fall into a vortex of what ifs and buts. Sometimes it just doesn't go they way you'd like it and it's normal to feel sad and frustrated about it. Maybe talk to Serum more...you did do well to get 7 eggs. sending hugs.

Teppar...sorry you've probably already had your transfer now. What did you decide and how idid it go? FWIW I'd have had 2 put back.


----------



## Rillischen

Hi again ladies... 

Teppar I wondered what you decided 1 versus 2? It’s a question I would also like to think through in the hope I get that far. Also, being single, I would have reservations like you did but then like all things I’m sure I would cope somehow! It’s a tough one.... 

Hi Helen  good luck for your cycle with Serum. At the last minute Create got the licence to import from Xytex so I decided to stay here rather than Denmark for 2 cycles (or maybe I only need one - fingers crossed) with the 2 vials of sperm I have. Sperm arrived safely in the clinic, medications are in my fridge... now it’s real 😄 exciting but a little scary! If no luck, I would also be considering Serum after that I think after everything I have read. Do let us know how you get on. 

Everyone else, sending you best wishes for the festive period and looking forward to hearing your updates x x x


----------



## miamiamo

Just wanted to wish magical holiday and a merry Christmas!


----------



## Efi78

Hi everyone

Just wanted to wish you Happy New Year and may 2019 bring you everything you wish for! And many many babies...


----------



## MummyWalnut

Hi everyone and happy new year 

I’m about to start a ivf cycle. This would be my second stim cycle as I got pregnant and had a baby from my first cycle at age 41. 

I had 4 frozen embryos left over but used them for an FET last November. Got BFP, couldn’t believe my luck, but it sadly ended as an early miscarriage. Anyway, here I am about to have another go with oe at 43. 

Looking forward to sharing this experience with you guys, especially comparing treatment & protocol, as my treatment is in Lagos, Nigeria. 

Best of luck to everyone trying 🙏🏾


----------



## Wishing4miracles

Hello everyone, just turned 40 and having my first ivf cycle this month. AFC was 26 and my amh was in the midde of the range so hoping 2019 is our lucky year  DR-ing at the moment, day 11 today, so counting down to baseline scan and stimming.


----------



## MummyWalnut

Hi! Welcome. Your stats sound very promising. Wishing you the best of luck. It may encourage you to know that I got pregnant with DD at 40 with similar stats.


----------



## miamiamo

MummyWalnut - I keep everything crossed super tight xx


----------



## Jupiter 96

Hello to All!

I would like to tentatively dip my toe in if I may please

In my mind after a long wait we are about to cycle but for us we have a.few more hurdles to jump before we actually embark on a long awaited FET cycle due to my medical history.

We have an appointment with our Fertility Consultant imminently to go through planning for the FET cycle. I want to really understand my options for myself and also because I will be discussing with my oncologist who has been very measured but supportive.

Forgetting the medical history for a moment, does anyone have advice about what to ask? My IVF cycle was a blur so I don't feel incredibly knowledgeable about fertility treatment.
I have five Frosties but unfortunately extremely unlikely to cycle again so I really want a preventative approach to any obvious possible issues that are checked maybe after one or two unsuccessful rounds. I don't know how possible that is though....

Anyhow! I'll try to catch up with personal journeys on here...
Any advice, support, hints or tips welcomed and I'll do the same even if it's simply being a little cheer leader!

Jx


----------



## Bohemian Rhapsody

Hi Everyone!

I turned 44 last month and have just started a cycle at ARGC using OE. They told me my chances were 5-10% but that my blood results were quite good (FSH 6, AHM 10 and AFC 11), so worth a try.. I'm not holding out much hope but I would dearly love a second child. Would love to hear from anyone else who might be cycling currently.

I've been put on a short protocol - 600iu of Merional almost daily since day 1, down to 300 in the last 2 days, 25mg viagra x2 a day (?), aspirin 75mg x1 a day, clexane (20iu daily) and clomid (first 5 days only). So far they have 4/5 follicles at a decent size (day 11). I also take 600mg of ubiquionol and 400mg of R Lipoic Acid daily as well as folic acid and ante natal multivitamins. I also have acupuncture 1-2x a week. I did this for a year before conceiving my son naturally at age 42, and I really believe it helps.

We had an abandoned cycle at the London Women's Clinic where my frozen eggs failed to thaw and moved straight over to ARGC. If this cycle fails I am considering using DHEA for 2/3 months before trying another cycle, also at ARGC.

Anyway, would love to hear from you all!


----------



## MummyWalnut

Hi Jupiter,

Welcome and happy new year. Great that you have 5 Frosties. I’m not sure I understand what your specific concerns were.

I recently concluded an FET cycle. I don’t know if your FET cycle will be medicated or natural as that changes things....


----------



## MummyWalnut

Hi there. Welcome.
I agree that your stats look promising. Especially given a natural conception at 42. Wow! Best of luck and lots of baby dust


----------



## Syd72

Ladies, I'm so sorry for the radio silence.  It's been a bit hectic learning to cope with a newborn plus we flew back to the UK for Christmas.  

I think my son is just waking up so I don't have time to do loads of personals, sorry.  Welcome to all the new ladies and good luck to everyone currently cycling or about to cycle.

We're doing well, not getting much sleep but I think thats par for the course.  Will try to come back with a longer message soon.


----------



## erna_mil

We look forward to. On the other hand, it's good that you have so much important reason to be absent


----------



## miamiamo

yep, important and wonderful reason to concentrate on


----------



## pauli

Syd, great to hear your update. So pleased that all worked out. 

I just had a DE blast transferred, currently in 2ww. Hoping ... but we have 3 more in the freezer, so already have a backup plan 

Good luck to everyone xx


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Wow I’ve been off here for a while following last failed cycle last year. 
So good and really pleased to hear that Syd and Tootles news and of course anyone else I’ve missed!!!
Really does give us hope that we can do it and get there!!  
Looking at going for another cycle - final one with OE, I’ve been offered a tandem cycle has anyone experience of that?


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Woops forgot to add this bit. Hi to anyone who I don't know on here btw.  Moonface sorry to hear you had a really bad reaction.   As someone who is a sixth time you asked a few questions?
1- Is it unlikely we’d have any future normal embryos due to the results of this round? One of the most frustrating thing I have found with IVF is that there really are few definitive answers. You really could have normal embryo’s in another cycle. Personally if you can afford another cycle with OE do it, you just have to do what feels right so you are not left with what if’s I think. You should definitely go to your GP to ask about the anaemia they can refer you to have some tests, and as for trapped wind from egg collection. Welcome to fart city forties, Yes for sure! You were lucky that it was just egg collection. Don't worry it’s totally normal.                                                                                                                          You also asked if you had not waited until day 5 to transfer and transferred on day 3 instead would the embie have survived. Again there is no way of knowing, try not to be too hard on yourself. For something so scientific there aren’t many answers. One nurse told me that they used to three day transfers all the time, as there is no better place than the womb. So we tried on one of our cycles. No difference :-(

3. What questions should I be asking Serum to get some learnings from this cycle, and to optimise success for next round? 
You could ask them if they can they change your protocol, higher dose perhaps.it in some ways. From my experience, having short then long protocol gave us better embryos
What I would say Moonface, is see if your clinic offers counselling as it’s such a stressful time and some centres offer you six free sessions - though some may not tell you. If not it's worth looking into the British Infertility counselling website can link you with someone in your area. Hope that helps

BohemianRhaposody - hello! Sound advice from your consultant and acupuncturist re 5mg Folic Acid and 75Mg, I found taking DHEA helped me. And please don’t beat yourself up about drinking and smoking in your 20’s. You’ll drive yourself loopy!


Hope everyone is trying to keep their heads up on this crazy journey, god knows I certainly didn't think I would be here looking at my seventh cycle but I am holding onto the dream of creating a family - one way or the other.


----------



## miamiamo

pauli - keep my fingers crossed, any updates?


----------



## Wishing4miracles

BFP this morning, 2 fully hatched 5 day blastos on board - dont know if both implanted, still in shock, obviously its early days, but just goes to show it can happen first time over 40, dont let anyone tell you otherwise  

You were right Walnutmama 

Ive got OHSS to boot but as I was saying to the nurses as long as Ive got one or two babies snuggling in my arms in October I dont mind whatever trials and tribulations the journey entails, waiting for viability scan in a few weeks, anyone with a magic wand able to fastforward time please send my way


----------



## bevoir78

Hi Guys,

Hope you are all ok. I now have some news and prospective dates so it felt like the right time to join back in. So i had my first doctors appointment last week and they have put me on a short protocol and are going straight in with ICSI (partner has low motility). I started the pill today (seems so backward going back on the pill   ). The hope is I will start stimming mid to end of March and EC & ET beginning of April. Found out my AMH has dropped to 5 but I've been taking lots of Vitamins and antioxidants. Also 200mg Ubiquinol ( not sure if i should up it to 300mg?)

Bohemian Rhapsody -  Sorry your eggs didn't thaw, I looked into freezing mine when I was 35 but the cost was far to much for me considering the chance of it working.  I thought about taking R lipoic Acid. Where do you get it from? I'm also considering Acupuncture. I seem to be doing the same ICSI and short protocol just a month or so behind. How are you getting on?

Wishing4miracles - I'm keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you!

Good luck to everyone else xx


----------



## Kris76

Hellooo ladies

It was been a little while since I have been on here.  

Syd, I am so glad you posted recently.  I have been thinking about you.  I am very happy to hear that all is well on your end. I bet your little boy is just gorgeous. 

Bics, how are you coming along?  Sorry, I can't remember how far along you are?

CeCe, how are you and the twins?!  I bet you are flat out busy with them.  I hope you finished the renovations too.  Please drop us a quick message and let us know how you and the babies are?

Efi, I hope you are well?  What stage are you at these days?

Pauli, how did you transfer go?  I hope it was successful.

Magic, I am dying to know how your donor cycle is going at the Lister.  I hope it is all falling into place for you. 

Teppar, did you decide to do a single or double transfer?

Tootles, I hope you are doing well.  You must be due any day now?

Boh Rap, sorry to hear about your tough time with the frozens not thawing.  I am surprised by that as the Lister has a very good track record for thawing.  I am at the Lister and have found them to be very good in that regard.  Shame about the mismanagement of a couple of your cycles there. How are you going at ARGC?  I started with them but they were so horrible to me that I left mid cycle and switched to the Lister. I hope you are having a good experience with them.  You have good stats for your age. 

AFM, I think I last left off I was waiting for my PGS results to come back in November.  6 blasts were tested and 1 came back as normal. I did another round after that to try and get another normal embryo. 5 blasts and all abnormal.  In January, I did a FET for my 1 normal embryo.  Everything was riding on it.  However, it didn't work.  To say I was crushed was an understatement.  Its so unfair as I had an abnormal embryo implant...I did miscarry, and my normal one not implant.  How is that for bad luck?  I spiraled to a dark place and I'm still trying to pull myself out of it.  I started round 10 last week. Not looking good so far.  Had my scan today and I have a run away follicle on my left and right ovaries, with 5 others that are too small at the moment.  They are not sure how that will play out, I will lose my lead follicles if they wait for the smaller ones to catch up.  I have never had to abandon a cycle before. I don't think it is viable to continue.  I have to go back for another scan tomorrow. I am only on day 5 of stims...haven't even taken day 5 meds yet.  Those 2 have grown very rapidly. So I have spent most of today feeling sorry for myself and sobbing at my misfortune. I am turning 43 in a month and I feel that this is never going to happen.  I am on round 10 in a matter of 14 months of doing IVF, I have produced 26 blasts and I'm still not pregnant.  I'm struggling emotionally. It's very hard to get through each day. I seem to be hearing of pregnancy announcements all the time. 

Hello to all the new ladies on here. I wish you all the best with your treatment. 

xx


----------



## Syd72

Kris that absolutely sucks, I’m so sorry. You’re amazing to keep going the way you do. I don’t have any practical suggestions really, have you had another sperm dna frag test? I can’t remember if they gave you a sperm inprovement protocol? Did they try icsi last time?

Thinking of you xx


----------



## Efi78

Kris76,

I think you are soooo brave. You are such a super strong person. My God, how much strength do you have to do 10 cycles in 14 months.

AFM- we have been trying naturally for several months now and no luck. I also tried a clomid cycle, responded well but no luck. I have surrendered to the fact that it is not meant to be for me and I turn 41 next month so...while we will continue having unprotected sex we will stop trying ie tracking ovulation etc. I think I have been through too much and we don’t deserve this. Next month I am transfering the last frozen blasto I have with Lister. I am not hopeful it will work but as I don’t want to throw it away I will give it a chance. 

Kris76 darling, if that makes you feel better we are on the same boat. I think I need to get on with my life and move on. Seven years of constant disappointment, financial burden, pain and failure is enough. It wasn’t meant to be for me and my husband and it is  a shame because we deserve a child and a child deserves us. He/she would have such a wonderful life and family. 

Hello to everyone else! Good luck on your journeys! I will be following you on this thread and try to encpurage and offer my assistance


----------



## Smudger12

Hello ladies, I’d like to join in if that’s ok?

I’m 42 although my hubby is younger at 30. I have a 9 year old son from ICSI with a previous partner but hubby and I would love one together. 

We have been in short protocol and just had 2 top quality blastos transferred today. We had 14 eggs, 13 fertilise but only the 2 ready on day 5. 4 more are being watched until tomorrow in the hopes of them developing enough to freeze but I will find out tomorrow morning. 

Now keeping everything crossed and settling in for the dreaded 2WW 

X


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hey ladies,
Wow Kris and Effie, you have certainly ridden the ups and downs of this journey. 
I am six cycles in and I know the strain that has caused.
Kris, I know that urge to want have a little un now and the feeling that the clock is ticking. But honestly, ten cycles in 14 months does seem a helluva lot, I am saying this as the body can only take so much. Everyone is different of course, but I found taking a break from it this past ten months really helped me and us. Have you been at the same fertility clinic or moved around?  
I know you are currently on cycle ten, so understandable that your emotions are all over the place with all the drugs. I always found just trying to do some of things I liked helped if possible and also talking to friends who have been through IVF, admittedly not the same amount of rounds but it helped. Perhaps, some of the others on the page can share tips? But there is a chance that this round could work, you just have to cling onto that. xx
Smudger12 - fingers crossed for you on the 2ww.
AFM, feeling positive as looking to summer to start 7th round. Hope everyone else is trying to win at this crazy journey.


----------



## Kris76

So good to hear from you Syd and Efi.

At this stage Syd, I feel I don't have a choice but to keep going until I've completely exhausted my chances, have a nervous breakdown or we go totally broke. However, we have hit the totally broke stage.  Stu did his DNA frag test in September with Dr Ramsay.  He was put on a protocol of anti-oxidants and we have to avoid plastic at all costs.  Can you believe his main issue is that he has too much sperm. So he has to ejaculate daily in the lead up to egg collection to get rid of it...sorry too much information!!  Our round in October we did ICSI for the first time, that's when I got the one normal embryo, however, ICSI again in the November round and no normals.  We should've been doing ICSI from the get go. Annoyed at that. We'll see how it goes.  Tomorrow's scan will determine whether I go ahead with this round or not. I
Syd, can you upload pictures to this thing?  I'd love to see your boy. What did you name him?  It must be so utterly incredible to have him. 

Hi Efi, so good to hear from you too. I totally feel your pain. I am feeling like that too, that the emotional trauma, constant tracking, your entire life revolves around your period and ovation etc.  It's all horrendous. Stu said to me today that he has never seem me cry so much over the past year than in the 12 years we have been together. I understand you feeling that you need to move on with your life.  This is all consuming, my life revolves around my clinic visits, actually one of the staff told me this week that I spend so much time at the clinic I should get a job there.  I really feel for you. It may not be over for you just yet.  You're turning 41 next month and I'm turning 43 in a month. It is still possible at 41.  I do agree with you, you don't deserve this, none of us do. It's the worst kind of punishment.  I do wish you all the best with your last frozen one.  Every embryo is a chance. You just never know. I forget you are at the Lister.  I have probably sat next to you in the waiting room.  i have two frozen but don't have any hope for them, one was an average embryo that they advised me not to freeze, it was a spare but I couldn't bear to discard it.  The other had come back as a no result from the PGS testing.  I don't think either of them will work but I will use them at some stage.  I really, really hope that this last one works for you.  Let us know how you go. I won't disappear for so long.  
I watched the movie Capernaum last week and it near killed me. Amazing film.  It makes me think, if I can't have my own, there are plenty of kids out there that need a home.  I'll be thinking of you. 

Hi Tiger.  You've done your fair share of cycles too.  A break is not an option for me, I'm simply too old to let time go.  Even my Dr doesn't think I should take a break. They will stop treating me soon enough.  I did start at ARGC but switched to the Lister during my first cycle as they traumatised me.  Thanks.  I try to do nice things for myself, even if it is just ditching work for the morning and taking myself off to brunch. I have had so much support from the incredible ladies on this thread, it has been a lifeline for me.  My friends in London are childless and are still going out and getting hammered, faffing around on tinder.  They don't understand what it is like for me.  Well some have kids but as per usual, it was pretty easy for them to get pregnant. It destroys me. 
I certainly hope that this will be the summer for you. 

Smudger, that is a very impressive round. Good luck with the ones you transferred and hopefully, you will have some to freeze tomorrow. 

xx


----------



## Efi78

Kris

Good to hear from you as well 

we both have birthday in March. Mine is on the 27th. When is yours?

Funny but i was at the Lister the other day and I was looking around thinking «this could be Kris, this could be magicpillow“. 

I saw Dr Wren this time James worls from home on Mondays. I also had my previous IVF with her while he ws on holiday. I like him but she is waaaaaay better. Direct, no bull****, straight shooter, honest. A bulldog as I would call her at my field of work. I like James but he is more soft spoken and sometimes I feel he tries to manipulate me. Who usully scans you? For me it’s Erica. What a wonderful person. 

You are right about adoption. I am not there yet as I still mourn my loss. But who knows. I may think differently in one year and feel ready. I am also moving country in one month.It will help though. New life, new beginnings


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hey ladies,

Spreading baby dust and wishing you all the best.  Really great to hear that this group set up over two years ago by Tootles, has provided support for lots.  I'm bowing out of this group for the moment, it seems a lot of you "know" each other, so it can feel a tad isolating for me (I'm sure not intended) but I need to stay positive. Much love and hope we all achieve our dreams.


----------



## Kris76

Hi Efi

Mine is on the 2nd April. Almost. Not feeling great about it this year. I feel that 43 represents a lost cause fertility wise. 
Ha, I've been at the Lister everyday. I wish I had known. I do look around as well and wonder if it is one of you ladies. 
Yes, James is not around on Mondays. I have seen Marie for a round when James was on holiday. We really liked her too. She very much if a straight talker. Well, she told me last year, that if it hasn't worked by the end of the year, I need to give up. Currently ignoring that. James is softer and doesn't like to be the bearer of bad news. He knows my level of desperation. I do think I was mishandled in a couple of rounds there. That really annoys me. 
I get Erica to scan for me. I love her. She is very thorough. She's the one that made the nurses give me a blood test when she found a cyst in my last round, when they didn't  want to. Lucky for that as it turned out to be a functioning cyst  Poor Erica today, I bawled my eyes out to her. She wasn't expecting me back after I transferred my normal embryo. 
My cycle was cancelled today. My follicles are all over the place. Erica thought we should lose the lead and continue but James recommended we stop. We can't afford to go through a round and potentially get one or two only. I triggered today and will have to start again in a couple of weeks when my period starts. If I can fit it in before I fly to Melbourne. 

Where are you moving to Efi?  Yes, I think it will help too. I hope you still attached in touch though. When do you transfer? 

Hi Tiger, that is a shame to hear. It's not like that at all. It's a strong sisterhood on this thread. We only know each other because we participate. I joined in part way through. We hope you stay. I'd love too know how you get on. 

Xx


----------



## Bohemian Rhapsody

Hi Ladies

May I join? I did my first ICSI cycle at ARGC last month and got a BFP with twins. I'm currently 7w and 4d. Unfortunately one embryo had no heartbeat and the second has a strong heartbeat but is a week behind in growth, so they have told me to prepare to miscarry in the next week or so because the embryo almost certainly has chromosomal issues. I'm absolutely gutted but trying to draw comfort from the fact that I did manage to get pregnant and maybe what I need to do is try a couple more times to find a "normal" egg.

I've just turned 44 by the way, so I realise I've only got the next week 10 months or so to try. ARGC won't let me cycle unless my FSH is below 10 and I was lucky to have that in January but who knows what it will be in a couple of months. They are also making me wait for 2 months before I try again due to the pregnancy.

Has anyone here tried a "natural modified" cycle anywhere? I was contemplating that too. Also, I am going to take 75mg of DHEA for the next 2-3 months to see if my egg quality can be improved.

If any of you are at ARGC or planning to go there, please let me know and perhaps we could meet up?


----------



## magicpillow

Hey ladies.  I haven't posted on here for a while.  Lots of new lovely ladies seem to have joined which is great so I need to go back and have a proper read of your journeys.  Just had a quick look at the last two pages.  Tiger I really hope it all goes well for you and do let us know what happens.  I know what you mean sometimes when people seem to know each other and you can feel left out even if it's not intentional.  I'm in the Instagram IVF community (I've got my normal insta account and an IVF one) and everyone is lovely but often I feel like the only one not being invited to meet ups even though it's not intentional at all.  Everyone here has been lovely though. 

Oh Kris I'm so sorry it's still not worked out.  You are utterly amazing for going through that many cycles in a year and so strong.  I think my most has been 2 cycles in a year and that knackered me out!  I haven't done any treatment for about 15 months now.  I totally get the age worry though; I'll be 43 in the summer.    I'm sorry it's been so tough for you and also Efi too.  I get waves of it and the hardest thing for me is coping at work as everyone has kids and we've recently had quite a few pregnancies.  Those ladies are on mat leave and I'm already dreading them returning from mat leave later this year as it'll mean the office will be full of baby talk again.  I've been quite emotional about it all this last week or so.  I'm starting to prepare myself that things might not work out for us and imagining life without children.  Not looking forward to the grief part though!  I'm currently reading Lesley Pyne's book 'Finding joy beyond childlessness'.  It's very socially isolating though.  I was on a course yesterday and we all had to talk about things in life that matter most to us.  Everyone else was talking about their kids and I felt quite sad. 

As for my journey, I've done my monitored cycle for the donor egg round which was back in January.  I did wonder if I might have seen Kris in the waiting room at the Lister.  I know who Erica is - she's lovely!  Monitored cycle went well and no issues with lining or progesterone.  Felt utterly hideous on the buserelin though and nearly gave up.  That was a rough couple of weeks.  It's now a waiting game until I get matched.  The nurse reckoned maybe matched around March and treatment in April/May.  I'm in no rush as I've put on loads of weight and feel massive at the moment so need to address that.  I've had a job opportunity come up which has put me in a dilemma as the timing is terrible with my last IVF coming up soon.  I may just stick with my current job to ease things at the moment. 

As for adoption, it's funny as a few months ago I completely dismissed it whereas now I've started thinking about it again and wondering if I could actually do it.  Hubby would have to be on board too though!  I think it was the thought of the mental energy required to go through the process and the fear of having a child with severe behavioural difficulties.  Will see what happens after my cycle.  I think if I can't have a baby, I'll really struggle to cope at work with all the baby and child related talk in the office.  Need to work at home or something!


----------



## magicpillow

Oh Bohemian I'm so sorry to hear about your recent experience.  I'm wishing you all the best for your next go.  A friend of mine is nearly 42 and did natural modified at Create.  She hasn't had success yet but still got about 6 eggs and most fertilised I think.  It's hard to know what to do isn't it.  I'm going ahead with donor eggs but still wonder if I should have tried own eggs one last time.

Tiger I've just seen on a previous post that you were considering a tandem cycle?  Have you made any decisions yet?


----------



## Bohemian Rhapsody

Hi Magic Pillow

So nice to hear from you. Your observations on work colleagues and weigh gain really struck a chord with me. I've put on about 7kgs in the last 6 weeks through comfort eating (my last crutch now that booze and espresso are off the menu...) and am wearing my husband's jumpers and yoga trousers all the time and feeling revoltingly frumpy and middle aged. Anyway I managed to shoehorn myself into a dress of sorts and go to the office yesterday (having been working from home mostly over the last few weeks). One of my colleagues came in to tell me that she was 7 weeks pregnant (almost exactly where I am with my doomed pregnancy). I congratulated her but she said "I'm devastated about this and almost cried when I found out because we already have 2 kids at school age and I don't want to be back at the newborn phase in my late 30s'....then she told me she was  likely to be signed off for the rest of her pregnancy because she had been the last 2x, which means more work for me  

She's a really nice person and of course completely unaware of what I'm going through but it just made me feel how perversely unfair life can be sometimes....I then scoffed some cake to compose myself


----------



## Kris76

Hi all

Magic!!  Great to hear from you.  I'm so happy that your monitored cycle for donor egg went well.  Wow, March is right here, you could have a match at any time now. That's super exciting. What is the deal at the Lister for donor egg?  How much info do you get about the donor?  Also, I hear that the donor is usually subsidising her own treatment, therefore, she keeps half her eggs and half are given away...but that half is also split to cover 2 women receiving.  Is this the case?  That seems very stingy to me.  I really hope it works for you. 
My OH is not keen for the donor route. He feels that he wants a child with my eggs or none. However, if I need to go the donor route he will do it. Yes, we had dismissed adoption but it is definitely on the table. 
That would kill me to have to listen to colleagues talk about their kids.  Tricky about potentially starting a new job.  Hopefully, it will be an issue for the fact that you will have to go on maternity leave soon enough.  
My fingers are crossed for you magic. 

BH I'm so truly sorry to hear of your loss.  Absolutely heartbreaking.  Yes, you are right, it is positive you got pregnant to begin with. I hope the next couple of weeks go as smoothly as they possibly can.  So awful. 
I know of one person one instagram who has done a natural cycle at ARGC not too long ago.  One egg collected and fertilised but didn't work unfortunately.  I do know that Create do it.  My Dr doesn't believe in natural IVF cycles. 
Oh my God, your colleague, I would have karate chopped her.  
Don't feel bad about yourself.  I have put on loads of weight over the past year.  It is hard to go through and you just do what you have to do to cope. I just stuffed a big lindt easter egg in my gob and hid the wrapper in the bin.  I live in yoga pants too and mainly work from home, can't bear to face the world and go to the office.  I can definitely see how much I have isolated myself from people over the last year.  It's just been the worst thing to go through.  I wish you all the best.  Thinking of you. xx


----------



## Bohemian Rhapsody

Kris

I chuckled when I read about your Easter egg! I have resorted to similar measures myself! And I know exactly what you mean about self imposed exile. I haven't seen anyone in months, I just feel I can't be myself and I feel comforted being at home loafing around in my baggy clothes with my new best friend, Google! However I have resolved to try to steer myself back to healthy eating and yoga once I'm physically ready to do so, if nothing else it will give me a second thing to focus on. Ive just read your earlier question to me about ARGC. Although my cycle has pretty much failed, I am happy with their approach. The doctors are blunt and nowhere near and warm and kind as James Nicopolous at Lister but I think their close monitoring is what got me as far as I got. Also mentally, it helped me to know I was doing something every day, blood test/scan etc.

Magicpillow, I really hope this next round is a success for you. I might eventually go down the DE route but my DH is currently very opposed to this. Also, as I am Asian, it means we will need treatment in India to try to find a match for me. But I am already exploring this because ultimately I want another child and I know 2 friends with DE children who are so happy and have never looked back.

I also wanted to share this with everyone on this thread. A friend of mine had 9 failed rounds of IVF at the Lister. She'd been given a less than 5% chance of success even at the age of 38 and by age 40 they were telling her she was wasting her time and money. Anyway she went to a clinic in India for a 10th and final round and had a baby girl, conceived at 44 and born at 45! Another friend of mine had 7 failed rounds of IVF and then had immunes treatment and conceived naturally at 41. Their experiences have motivated me to keep trying. One other option I have looked at is doing several Clomid based (ie natural) egg banking cycles at Serum in Greece. Another lady on the over 45 and trying with OE thread had a baby there at 44.

Bevoir78, I'm sorry for the tardy response to your question, but I get my R Lipoic Acid from Amazon and I buy the "Life Extension" brand because I'm told its the best. I also use that brand for Ubiquinol. Before this next round (whether full stims or natural) I may add Royal Jelly and Selenium too...

Anyway, I'm so glad to have found you all on this thread and look forward to hearing happy news from you.


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Pinch punch first of the Month to everyone   
Spreading good luck energy on the 1st March. Hell knows we all need it!
Thanks, Kris and Magic Pillow, yes its no problem will hopefully keep you posted.
Yes Magic, definitely doing tandem. Can't wait! I'll see what the next few months bringing. Riding on this high towards the next cycle. Though watched some random American programme accidentally yesterday about two real estate agents who had a baby through IVF surrogate. There was a little clip when they saw the surrogate and were gushing. Cue random set of water works!
Hey, that's the IVF journey right?   Never know when it catches you off guard.
Good luck to everyone who is the 2WW and also waiting for the "embryo update" call. x


----------



## Guest

I will be starting in April, 3 banking rounds of natural modified at create, just starting on my 44th birthday. I have being trying to conceive now for 4 years and have had 5 failed transfers with blasts on day 5, last one in January. The quality of eggs seems to improve with less drugs so this is my last chance. The clinic has advised me to try  one more time after the failure in Jan (was at lister before this) which produced 4 eggs and 2 blast embryos but bfn. I suggested let’s do 3 banking to up the odds a bit! Fingers crossed this works, obviously I am not optimistic but feel I will regret if I don’t do this so am going ahead. For us donor egg is a hard thing to get out heads round. I think if we were younger like early 30’s then yes but I just think having a 15 year old when I am 60 and trying to explain DE conception ( we would tell the child but not till they are old enough to understand ) would be really hard and all that, that might bring even being mid 50’s trying to explain to a 10-12 year old would be hard. But who knows if this fails you don’t know how you will feel or what you might be willing to compromise on. I never thought I would still be doing rounds of ivf at 44 that is for sure.


----------



## ShadyWheat

Hi - sorry that I'm jumping on this thread, although I'm not 40 yet I have DOR and egg reserve and was told at 35 I have eggs like someone 10 years older and I saw lots of you are at Lister too? Just wondering what your experience has been with them and whether you ever felt like they were encouraging you to stop? I went to them 18 mths ago from another clinic (that basically told me to get lost after 3 failed rounds because I was dragging their stats down) and one of the big reasons was that I felt Lister would have a lot more patience with me. Efi, Kris, I am with James as well, and we had a consult with him after latest BFN last week and I got the distinct impression he wanted me to stop. I was also a bit frustrated that he had nothing different to suggest doing, basically try the same again and hope for the best. I do really like him and respect his opinion, so I feel like if he thinks I'm a hopeless case, maybe I should call it a day! I'm about to start one more fresh cycle depending on what my AMH looks like when I test next week  (also before my birthday end of March!) and I have one more blast frozen at Lister but I'm not very hopeful for it as the three blasts we already transferred were the 'best' ones. We have only ever got to transfer 3 times though despite starting 6 fresh cycles and 3 FETs so I don't know whether to keep going after that.... but then again, I have been trying to conceive for 5 long years and am fed up. Looking at moving to DE after that, but not sure whether to stay at Lister or go abroad.... 

Bohemian Rhapsody, I'm so terribly sorry for the situation that you're in, it's a horrendous to go through. I had similar last year, but I was earlier stage than you. Had a scan and was told I would almost certainly lose the baby but had to wait another 10 days for it to be confirmed. It was impossible to think of anything else during that time. I am also Asian, but am wondering about getting a greek DE, that might look somewhat like me. Take care of yourself xxx


----------



## Guest

I was at the lister for many rounds and with James. I did like them and never felt they were encouraging me to stop. Are your embryos getting to day 5? Are you still producing eggs? I left there and not under great circumstances as I felt they had lost interest in me but were still willing to continue treatment but with not much enthusiasm. Maybe you should consider going to create and having another opinion at least, I am glad I switched, although not as fancy as the lister building wise the RE are very nice and mainly women. You are still young and you still have a good chance of finding the egg. I find that lower drugs are better for those of us who don’t produce much eggs on high doses. If James isn’t willing to come up with something new or change direction then maybe a new clinic will have something new for you.


----------



## Bohemian Rhapsody

Hi Shady 

I thought I'd refer you to the posts by a lady called Flyby. Set out below is her post. You might want to check out her experience of "embryo banking" and success at age 44 at Serum ( a clinic in Greece that offers donors too). I read them all and this has made me really question whether the full stims I am planning for the next round are the right way forward. I agree with CathA that you are still young and personally I would keep trying with OE for a while, if you can cope financially and emotionally. Maybe get a second opinion from somewhere like Create too. Have you tried acupuncture? I believe it helped me get pregnant and also reduced my FSH.

Re the Lister, I second everyone's views of James being a nice and personable man. He told me to try naturally after my first pregnancy loss for T18 and it worked. He also told me to try naturally when I went back to the Lister in mid 2018 to discuss the use of my frozen eggs. However the concern  I had with the Lister is that there is no guarantee that James will do the transfer himself. Also I was already embittered by my experience with his colleague Yau Thum whom I saw initially in 2012/2013 to freeze my eggs. He was a nice man who was simply incompetent. He overstimulated me, had to pull me off the drugs 1 weeks before EC which meant I collected 7 eggs instead of the 18-20 or so they had originally seen in early scans. The next time round he under stimulated me and nothing grew so I took drugs for 2 weeks and then just stopped with no EC.  I then froze and paid to store the dud eggs I collected from the overstimulated cycle for many years and James always made me feel those eggs represented a good chance for me to have a child. Of course when they didn't survive the thaw, I wished I had just stated ICSI 12 months ago instead of relying on those eggs.

CathA, when I asked ARGC about using a Clomid cycle or modified natural cycle to preserve egg quality, they said "egg quality is only compromised if there is overstimulation/over use of drugs and that at ARGC they monitor everyone daily so this does not happen". The doctor seemed to suggest that provided my FSH that month was below 10, a full medicated short protocol was the best option... I just don't know whether to follow that advice so I have decided to get a Skype consultation with Serum in Athens, which is where this lady Flyby went. My concern is that I could spend another 3 months waiting for and doing a medicated cycle only to be in the same situation, with chromosomally abnormal eggs. In the same period of time (and for half the cost) I could do 4 back to back Clomid cycles at Serum...Any resources you may have on how full stims affect egg quality in older women would be greatly appreciated.

AFM, I had another scan at ARGC today - baby measuring a week and one day behind but still has a strong heartbeat. Doctor told me the chance of survival is now 5% and miscarriage should happen by week 9. I'm currently 7w 6d. My HCG is still rising, no idea why I'm even allowing ARGC to do these HCG tests and scans when I could probably just wait a few days and go to the EPU for a free scan and referral for D&C, if/when it becomes necessary.

Oh well, gives me an excuse to eat more cake I guess...


POST FROM FLYBY BELOW



It worked for me at age 44 with my own eggs at Serum clinic in Athens. Treatment was cheaper and of exteremely high quality, doesn’t really compare to UK in my opinion. 

It work after my fifth try with Clomid and embryo banking. I believe that my egg quality was preserved with Clomid as it’s a more natural way of stimulating multiple eggs whilst allowing your body to produce its own level of hormones. I froze embryos for a few months in a row and it worked on the first frozen embryo transfer. Before this I had done four convention cycles with injectables.

There is a lot of info on Serum in the Greece section.

Good luck

Flyby


----------



## Efi78

Goodmorning everyone!

Magicpillow - so nice to hear from you. Good on you monitored cycle and good luck on your DE cycle in April! As for work collegues, I honestly don’t know what to say. Luck of sensitivity and low emotional intelligence. In terms of work I have told you my opinion before. Change. It will hange your life. I am sure you can find an excuse to start in May after your cycle. Travelling, family member having surgery and needs looking after (i now I am horrible BUT it’s for a good cause!).

Smudge - good luck on your cycle

BohemianRhapsody - sorry to hear what you are going through. However, looking at your profile it looks like you conceoved naturally at 42 and had a wonderful baby boy. This gives me so mich hope. May I ask how long it took you to conceive?

Tiger Smiles- good luck and keep us posted!

ShadyWheat - don’t give up. You are really young. Doctors get it wrong very often. My experience with the Lister is good. In my view IVF is 35% the clinic, 35% egg and sperm quality and 35% luck. They have done their part well. Found the right protocoll, monitored etc. But you see in terms of luck and egg/sperm quality unfortunately not that good so...

Kris76 - moving to Germany. Not very far! Mixed feelings. One one hand I look forward to it because I really like the country, on the other hand Lo don has been my home for 15 years now and I am sad to leave. Oh the joys of Brexit...

AFM- doing FET this month. First scan on monday. Not very hopeful it will work bit hey ho. It’s there, I will use it.


----------



## Blaggy

Hi all
Haven't posted here for a few years but now looking for advice. I'm 40, soon to be 41 and hoping to start IVF in the next few months. My partner and I are lucky enough to have a 3.5 year old girl following two rounds of IVF, an ectopic and a mc back in 2013-5. 

I remember everyone raving about Serum in Athens back then, particularly the 'hidden c' test and wondered if anyone here knew of it? I'm also wondering how people go about choosing an ivf clinic? So far we have made a spreadsheet of clinics success rates using the hfea website... pleased to see the clinic that we were at - Bourn Hall near Cambridge - has a good success rate as we were keen to go back there.

Thanks in advance to everyone and good luck to those cycling now. xx


----------



## ShadyWheat

Thank you so much CathA, BohemianRhapsody and Efi78, it's really helpful to know your experiences and thoughts. 

CathA, I feel the same, a bit like they've lost interest now I had lots of cancellations. They were very encouraging at the start and I had my best 2 cycles ever with them, so I do rate their labs and would ideally like to stay there. I also love the nurses and sonographer, especially Liz who I wish was my mum! She was absolutely amazing when I MC. James also had me on a low dose protocol with letrozole which I found improved egg quality compared with the high doses I tried at another clinic. But now he is saying he wants to retest my AMH and potentially put me on a higher dose of stimms which I'm nervous about. 

BohemianRhapsody - I'm looking at Serum for DE actually. Lots of girls on the Low AMH/DOR thread really rate Penny and Serum's approach and she seems to work miracles for women like me. Unfortunately I would find it difficult to juggle natural IVF and going abroad every month (or even to do natural IVF every month somewhere like Create) as I work in Cambridge and I don't want to tell them about it, I had a very bad experience in my last job once I told them I was doing IVF and felt like I was being given all the rubbish work rather than the proper career-promoting stuff. I would definitely recommend low stimms option, I have had much better cycles on it than full stimms. I used letrozole instead of clomid but they have similar effects by lowering oestrogen to recruit more follicles at start of cycle. 

Efi, good luck with your upcoming FET. You never know, each embryo is a concrete chance! At least that's what I tell myself  Sorry to hear you will be leaving the UK, this Brexit mess..... its just ruining so many people's lives...


----------



## CEce40

Hi all, sorry I've been AWOL for eons, lots going on. 

Guys, I'm a mum!! Dexter and Alana, my beautiful DE twins are now 6 weeks old and getting cuter by the day. They are so very different, gender, looks, personality, we really have got the best of both worlds and I feel so incredibly lucky to have them. 

For anyone thinking about donor eggs I can honestly say I have zero regrets. they are my little stars and they amaze me on a daily basis. I'm beyond excited to see what gems the donor genes will bring. I firmly believe in nurture over nature, its our job to dig out those natural traits and harness them, us them, use and develop them positively and mould the gorgeous little humans I have no doubt they will turn out to be. Yes, twins are hard work, but I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm smitten. 

Welcome to all the newbies, I so hope everything works out for you and that you find the support from this thread as valuable as I did. 

Syd, so happy everything is going well for you and your little one. 

Kris, I'm gutted for you. You really are a massive trooper. I completely get why you're throwing yourself back in again so quickly, I'd be the same. Fingers crossed this is your time, you definitely deserve your break soon. 

Tiger, Magic, best of luck with your cycles, it's such a long and painful journey, I'm full of hope that you'll succeed soon. 

Efi, so difficult to accept childlessness, but it can be such a positive and brave decision. I wish you all the best. 

I'll keep checking in occasionally to see how everyone is getting on, but hard to get 5 mins to myself at the moment so please don't be offended if I'm slow with replies. 

Take care all x


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hey all,
Hope you are winning in whatever way today?

Cece - so pleased for you and that was just a lovely encouraging message to anyone thinking about DE. Thanks muchly for that!   

"For anyone thinking about donor eggs I can honestly say I have zero regrets. they are my little stars and they amaze me on a daily basis. I'm beyond excited to see what gems the donor genes will bring. I firmly believe in nurture over nature, its our job to dig out those natural traits and harness them, us them, use and develop them positively and mould the gorgeous little humans I have no doubt they will turn out to be."

Take care one and all


----------



## Bohemian Rhapsody

Hi Efi 

I’m sorry for the delayed response. It took me 10 months during which time I had a chemical pregnancy too. My first pregnancy was unplanned at age 41 when I was still on the pill. Unfortunately the baby had Edwards Syndrome and I had a termination at 13 weeks. We then started trying in earnest and I did weekly acupuncture (including some pretty intense electro acupuncture) used the clear blue tests, followed the Sperm Meets Egg plan and finally got pregnant with my son 10 months after the termination.  

Cece40, I was thrilled to read your update. It really did make me feel that if my OE attempts don’t work by the end of this year I may have another wonderful option. And I agree fully with your ‘nurture’ views.

Shady wheat, I’m having a telephone consultation with Penny from Serum on Thursday to fully understand all the options and treatment types. Happy to PM you with all her thoughts after that if you like. One thing they did tell me via email was to start taking inositol and melatonin.

I had a scan today to check on my non viable pregnancy. It’s so sad because the baby has grown 1mm every day since the last scan and still has a strong heartbeat but is still measuring 1 w behind.. I came home and got into bed with an entire Victoria sponge and a spoon.... how tragic!!

The scan also revealed cysts on both my ovaries which weren’t there before. The EPU said this was likely due to the IVF drugs and that they should subside over time. Has anyone else experienced this?

BR xx


----------



## Efi78

Hi BR

Thanks for your response. You give me so much courage to keep on trying. We have been trying naturally for 9 months but I feel disappointed. The other two times I conceived naturally were within 3 months of trying, however they resulted in a TFMR and a MMC. This month I am transferring a 3BB blasto from a 2017 IVF. Then I will take a break from OPKsetc. Good luck to you

CeCe congratulations!wonderful news. You made me start thinking about donor eggs although too ealry for me. I need a break to grieve and not think about TTC first. 

Hello to everyone else.i will be checking this thread to see how everyone is getting on


----------



## ShadyWheat

Thank you so much Bohemian Rhapsody, that would be great. Your egg reserve and quality sounds a lot better than mine, but it would be interesting to know what she suggests. I take melatonin only when stimming as I read you are not supposed to take it for long periods of time. I'm keeping everything crossed for the baby - it sounds like its fighting for its survival so it could still make it.


----------



## Bingo77

Hi..nervous scared abd excited.  My period is due soon and i will start meds with penny at Serum for a clomid oe cycle and flying over on cd9.
Any advice or anyone else in same boat now? Aim is one clomid cycle and one natural with transfer in may. Dh despite 2 teenage kids now has low morphology and both have been taking antibiotics/vitamin protocol to improve that and chlymidia found. I am 42 in july. No kids but had a mmc in oct at 7 weeks and a chemical the previous august on our honeymoon
Scared this wont work and as penny said pre DH treatment we may need to look at donor sperm which i havent told him! Lets see..anyone else starting soon with serum? Looking to fly around 5th april


----------



## deblovescats

Hi everyone
Hope you don't mind my jumping on here. I've been reading back and I really wish you all good luck with your cycles if you're in the process of doing this and so sorry for anyone having a difficult time in TTC.
I'm about to start a DE cycle in the next few months, doing FET as I have two frozen embryos in storage. I've been very lucky and have two children as a result of double donation, as I'm single. I had treatment in CARE Sheffield. I didn't want to discard them so am hoping to use them. I hope you ladies don't mind this, but understand if you would rather I didn't post. I'm off on holiday at Easter to Malta, so clinic have put me on the pill for 3 months which I'm aiming to start when I get back from hols. Didn't want to be taking it when flying, and also juggling scans etc. My plan is to start it in May, so I'd be looking at transfer probably in August.
Just to reassure anyone considering DE, I have never hesitated in my decision to do this. I love my children totally, and although initially I was a bit freaked out by the thought of it, I soon came to realise it was my best chance of having a healthy baby as I was over 40. I rarely think about it now, and everyone I know thinks they look like me! I feel that we shape how they develop and what people they become. I don't know how using DE varies at other clinics, but I know someone was asking about how eggs are shared, but at my clinic, and I think others will be the same, if egg sharing, the egg sharer keeps half the eggs in return for subsidised treatment, and the recipient has the other half.  The other half of the eggs are not shared by two women. In other cases, an altruistic donor has her eggs shared by two recipients. With an egg sharer, if there is an odd number of eggs, the recipient gets the extra one. Hope this helps.


----------



## Jupiter 96

Hi Everyone

This certainly is some journey isn't.... I truly wish each and every one of you the best of luck. 

I did pop on previously to say hello and then basically lost my nerve a little bit as I was approaching some rather large hurdles on my quest to be reunited with my Frosties! Sorry about that! It shall not happen again!

I had fertility preservation due to breast cancer, it was a rather speedy freeze all cycle where thankfully I was able to put some embryos into storage. Fast forward everything and the kitchen sink cancer treatment and clear scans I am now trying to organise my FET cycle with all the necessary medical experts in support.

My body has had a tough old time so at the moment we are checking if there are any physical issues for the FET and checking out everything given my medical history

@ Debs - All being well we may be having frozen cycles around the same time!

Have a great weekend! I look forward to getting to know you all better

Jx


----------



## pattycake

I’m due for a transfer next week and am feeling awful on Progynova 2mg three times a day.  My day 10 scan showed my lining was 10mm and I’m tempted to reduce it to twice a day, as I forgot my tablets three times before the scan. Anyone have advice on feeling better on Progynova?  Nervous to start progesterone too.....

A


----------



## miamiamo

pattycake - sorry, I can't help with any advice, just wanted to wish you good luck xx


----------



## pattycake

Thank you!  Pupo on 2ww and trying to keep calm, positive and hopeful.


----------



## Jupiter 96

Best of luck Pattycake.

When is OTD?


----------



## pattycake

Hi Jupiter, thank you 🙏what is OTd?


----------



## Jupiter 96

Pattycake, it's Official Test Date..... I think!


----------



## Guest

Got the drugs today, so at 44, turned 2 days ago, I go into my last ever ivf with OE, 3 natural modified cycles with transfer in July all going well. This time they are freezing at day 3 not day 1 so not sure how many embryos I will have at the end. But I feel at least whatever the outcome this is it for my own eggs,now DE that is a whole other kettle of fish. I have been looking into it and surprisingly I am thinking Russia! They have so much more information on annoymous donor and pictures as child and adult, one clinic even had videos but thought that was a bit too much.


----------



## miamiamo

CathA - good luck with Russia, their top clinics get excellent results x


----------



## Momfor4

CathA- we had success in St. Petersburg, first try was succesful. Highly recommend the clinic, great results, amazing and absolutely pro team there. They also have very reasonable offers and have just extended their clinic.


----------



## StrawberrySundae

I had my worst ever transfers & results in St Petersburg (NGC) despite using DE on 2 cycles, so couldn’t recommend them at all! I’m very glad I returned to Serum in Greece (I previously had a twin MC here using OE, but am currently 12 weeks pg). I think a lot of it is down to luck and numbers, but I wouldn’t return to Russia and much prefer Greece as a destination anyway. I know of other people who have been successful in Russia however. Wishing you luck whatever you decide   x


----------



## Bics76

Hello all,

It’s been a very long time since I’ve posted (so sorry) but I wanted to come back, especially to you Kris as you have been so amazingly helpful to me. (How are you doing? I’ve been thinking of you. I read your updates and just wanted to give you a huge hug. I was completely gutted for you. You’ve been through so much the past year ❤ how did the cycle go?)

My baby girl was born nearly 7 weeks ago now. She is an absolute blessing and we are completely besotted. We were in hospital for quite a while as I had a PHH after delivery and I was pretty poorly, so it’s really good to be home.

It would be nice if I can give a bit of hope (which is my baby’s middle name (Hope) 😊). I was 43 a few months ago so I am proof that it can happen at our age. It’s two years now since I had a failed frozen embryo cycle with embryos from 5 years earlier, so I had been convinced it would work. It didn’t and I was devastated, so our baby girl feels even more like a miracle.

I am sending so much love to you all. It’s such a tough and sad and difficult road. The support I had here was unbelievable; just pure love and kindness. I am sending all you ladies the same. 

Syd and Cece (Yay!, Amaaaazing news on your babies 😀) Tootles (hope all’s well), Kris and all of you lovely ladies who helped - particularly at the beginning of my cycle when it felt like it was all going wrong - thank you. I’m thinking of everyone old and new and sending positive vibes for your journeys.

Love and light,

Bics x


----------



## Efi78

Bics76

Congratulations on the new arrival!You give so much hope to everyone in here. I am so happy for you!!!

Kris76, how is it going?

Tootles, you must be giving birth anytime now. 

How is everyone else?

AFM - no luck with natural conception. I tried to transfer my last frozen embryo in March but the clinic kond of messed up with the endometrium lining - long story...

Giving two more goes on natural and transferring  the last embryo in June-July.i hve lost hope tbh


----------



## Tiger Smiles

What a lovely positive message Bics ❤😘 Thanks for sharing that. Xx


----------



## miamiamo

Bics76 - amazing story, congrats!


----------



## magicpillow

Huge congratulations Bics!  Lovely news and gives us all lots of hope. 

Hello to everyone new on here, I need to go back a few pages and read up on where you all are with your cycles. 

Efi - hello!  Wishing you so much luck with your transfer.  I've pretty much given up hope too but you never know!  Hoping Kris is doing ok too. 

I'm still here, waiting to be matched with an egg donor.  We went on the waiting list (UK) last August and still nothing.  Did my monitored cycle in Jan which went well and now it's just a waiting game.  I've had a few wobbles recently, even wondering if I do actually want a child after all as we have a nice settled life and I wonder how I'd cope with it all at my age.  I also worry about double donation and how a child would cope with no genetic connection to either of us and having potentially loads of half siblings (mainly from the donor sperm side).  So hard. I'm keen to get going but in a way I don't mind waiting as I've gained weight and am the biggest I've ever been.  My husband is adamant that this go at Lister will be our last ever cycle but I still look at European clinics online just incase!  I'm tempted to go abroad but just a bit worried about the anonymity re donors. 
Ah well, will see what happens at Lister first.  Worried with egg share we won't get many eggs but need to stay positive.


----------



## miamiamo

magicpillow - I keep my fingers crossed. You are very young to handle anything perfectly well.


----------



## deblovescats

Hi guys
Just wanted to jump on as I'm about to cycle again and wanted to join you if that's ok. I have been lucky to have 2 children as a solo mum through double donation, both conceived from same cycle, my son was born from fresh cycle, my daughter 2 years later through FET. I have 2 embryos frozen. I have just started the pill as my clinic want me to have 3 months of this, so plan would be to transfer August.
Magicpillow - just wanted to emphasise with you about doubts about DD. I did wonder about it when I first started, but I want to say that now I have my two gorgeous children, I have never regretted it. It is the most important thing I have ever done, I have my lovely family and I rarely give a thought to the donor aspect. They are just mine. I do know they have half siblings but I try not to think about that too much. I'm grateful for being given the chance to have a family. I had two failed attempts at LWC and then changed to CARE, which I could highly recommend.


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hey all,
Hope you are winning. 😃
Efi  - fingers crossed for you. 
Bics, that is amazing news!
Gives all of us fab 40’s hope. 

Magic pillow - just reading your message. 

Though I’ve been looking at tandem ivf. Have you heard of cytoplasmic transfer ivf?
My understanding as they do take the mitochondria from a donor egg and the nucleus of yours then fertilizing it with sperm and implanting it in the uterus.

Essentially as they are just taking the mitochondria from DE means your baby retains most of your genetics. 

It’s a bit sci-fi but lots of evidence around this that it works. 

I appreciate that you are using Donor sperm so I am not sure how it works in terms of that. 

But worth looking into if it’s something for. 
Regardless don’t lose hope. Xx


----------



## magicpillow

Hi Tiger - thanks for that info.  I'll have a google and a read!  Hope all is well with you. 

Deb welcome!  Thanks so much for your reassuring words.  I've read some of your posts on other threads and I've found them really inspirational.  Most of the time I feel ok about it all but then will have a big wobble!  Having some counselling this week at my clinic as I felt I needed to talk about it a bit more.  Still on the waiting list to be matched - 9 months and counting now.  Wishing you all the best for your transfer - nice to have you on the thread!  Hope everyone else is ok xx


----------



## deblovescats

Magicpillow - thanks for your kind words. I think you are being sensible having the counselling, I remember my one session before starting treatment, and found it helpful. Once you have that little baby in your arms, all your concerns fade away! Good luck. I hope you get matched with a donor soon. I believe that what is meant to be, is meant to be. I remember I only waited about 6 weeks for my egg donor, but I think that was because the clinic were having problems matching the donor, as she was tall, about 5'10 and I believe others had rejected the match. As I was also using DS, the clinic said they could match with  a smaller DS donor, to even out the height. I was perfectly happy to go ahead with the donor, I wasn't too choosy, wanted similar colouring etc, and I think this was meant to be, as I have had success with both donors!  She was also 34 when she donated, and I know lots of people, especially going abroad, go for younger donors, but it can obviously work out!


----------



## Efi78

deblovescats - height is a blessing. I am not sure why the donor was rejected before! I wish I were that tall!

Magicpillow - all the best with the donor matching. Just make sure it is what you want. While it may be the answer for some women, it may not be for others. There is no right or wrong here. 

Tiger - i have also read about mitochondria and three parents babies. However, I am not sure whether this is panakea for old eggs. It would be if there was only a problem with the mitochondria but most often the problem lies with chromosomal abnormalities on the rest of the egg. It is an answer mostly for young women having mitochondrial disease they don’t want to pass to their children I believe.


----------



## Syd72

I’ve only just realised how long it’s been since I’ve been on here! I don’t know where this year is going...

I’ll come back later and properly catch up but just wanted to say huge congratulations for the new arrivals, hi to all the new ladies and good luck to anyone cycling at the moment. Hoping to find an update from Kris when I read back through.

X


----------



## deblovescats

Magicpillow - I agree about height, I'm about 5'5 so happy if the children are tall! My son is tall for his age and currently my daughter is dainty, but she may grow, don't really care how tall they are! They are perfect whatever height!
Syd - congrats - hope you're enjoying motherhood!


----------



## Kris76

Heellloooooo ladies.

Its been a while, time has flown by.  I didn't realise how long it has been.  Even though I haven't been on here, I truly think of you ladies often.  It had been crazy busy with work, trying to sell our flat (buyer pulled out on the day of exchange) and find a damn builder for the new house. Very middle class problems!

I have gone back a few pages to try and catch up.  Hello to the new ladies on here.  Cece, Im soooo happy to hear from you, Dexter and Alana, how utterly gorgeous.  So glad to hear you are doing well and absolutely loving it.  Im delighted for you.  I wish you could post pictures on this forum.  Thanks for the boost in advocating DE, seeing you and Syd get your happy ever after is just incredibly inspiring.  

Syd, hi!  So great to hear from you.  You sound well and content.  I'm sure you are super busy with you beautiful bubs. Please let us know how you are getting on and if you are back in the UK or not. 

Bics, a huge congrats on your beautiful baby girl.  So happy for you. I had been thinking about you.  Makes my heart burst thinking about the inspiring ladies on here that have finally got their babies. How can anyone that isn't/hasn't gone through this possibly understand?  Love the middle name Bics. I hope you still give us updates. 

BR, how are you?  I also got cysts and was told it was due to the meds and would go away.  One did, I took synarel and is suppressed and shrunk the cyst.  However, I have another one again and they said the same thing, it will go away.  

Magic, I can't believe you are still waiting to be matched.  The Lister told me their wait time was only a few months. I really hope that can find a match for you soon.  I understand your rethinking the situation, as I too have thought, i am too old for this and have a comfortable life.  Why am I putting myself through the emotional trauma, can I actually do this?  I guess that is a normal train of thought.  It's such an impossible situation. I hope it works out for you. 

Efi, you're incredible hanging in there. I'm so impressed with your resilience.  When will you be transferring your last embryo?  I hope with every fibre of my being that this is the one for you. Have you had this embryo tested?  A 3bb is a very good embryo.  I know it's hard to keep positive but it has a decent chance of working. I wish you all the best with it. I'll be thinking of you. 

AFM, I can't quite remember where I left off.  My January cycle was canceled as my follicles were all over the place and my Dr advised not to go ahead. I started my meds on day 5 and it was too late as i had a runaway follicle very early on. I couldn't cycle the following month as I had to go away for work.  The following month I went back home to Melbourne and couldn't cycle again.  It was the longest break I had since I started IVF in December 2018. I was initially quite stressed about losing so much time, as I turned 43 in April.  Oh Efi, I just remembered that your bday was near mine, happy belated birthday!  I'm now grateful for the break as I was mentally in a very bad place and was not a functioning human being. I used the break to try and pull myself out of a deep, dark hole. I am better than I was, however, I still have a long way to go to even being a resemblance of my former self pre-IVF. 
To cut a long story short, I did my 10th cycle in May.  I still can't believe it is number 10.  I never thought I would be in this position. It was a good round, I didn't stress about it, just went through the motions. I got 5 blasts.  I started PGS testing a few rounds ago and planned to continue to. Unfortunately only two were good enough to test, and on the day of transfer one was average and the other two degraded.  I was pretty deflated and defeated as I have never had that before. I usually get good blasts. I transferred the average one, since I didn't expect it to work, I didn't have a stressful 10 day wait and when I got my period day before testing I didn't even cry!  I also expected the two to come back as abnormal, as previously out of 11 blasts tested only one came back as normal. 
I went back in for round 11 before the test results even came back in.  On the day of my appt to start the next round, the embryologist pulled me aside.  I was confused and my legs nearly gave way, I thought something really bad happened. The test came back a week early and both embryos were normal.  I nearly fell off my chair.  I think my mouth was opening and closing with nothing coming out.  I was truly shocked.  I thought I would have to do many more rounds to get one more normal embryo.  I had already been scanned and was due to get my prescription.  I saw my consultant and he advised me not to bother going ahead with the round.  We had discussed previously whenever I can get my next normal embryo that I have an ERA test before I transfer again.  As I have had 8 out of 9 implantation failures even with a normal embryo, the other resulted in a miscarriage. I am currently doing a dummy round and I have my biopsy tomorrow.  I'm a bit nervous as several women online said it was rather painful.  We'll see what result that brings back, if I am in the correct transfer window or not.  I suspect I am but I have poor receptivity.  I am so nervous about transferring these two, very worried they also wont work.  If they don't, then that is it for me.  I can't take it anymore. 

Sorry ladies, that was rather long winded.  

It is bed time for me.  I won't stay away for so long.  Much love to all. 

xx


----------



## miamiamo

Kris76 - keep my fingers crossed x


----------



## Efi78

Kris76

Wishing you with every fibre of my body that one of these two or both become your longed for babies.

You are so brave to have done 10 back to back cycles. After every cycle I need at least three months to recover psychologically. 

AFM - waiting for period to arrive so that I start the FET. I haven’t done PGS on it though. Fingers crossed that it is euployd and sticks.


----------



## Kris76

Thanks Miamiamo and Efi. 

I really hope so too Efi. I didn't really have the luxury of time to draw it out.  Plus, it's very much my nature to just get it all out of the way as soon as I can. I do hope this one sticks for you.  My 2 tested ones are 3bb, you have a good chance it will take. Definitely keep us updated. xx


----------



## Efi78

Kris76

When are you transfering the 2 embryos? I start FET mid of June with possible transfer by 3-5 july


----------



## magicpillow

Hey ladies, I'm currently on holiday in Greece and wasnt going to post until I'm back but I saw Kris had posted so had to jump on. Kris I am hoping so so much that one of these embryos is your baby. You've gone through so much and are utterly amazing. I've had a gap of 18 months now since I last cycled. I'll be 43 in August argh. 

Efi I'm keeping everything crossed for you too. I will catch up with everyone's posts when I'm home. 

I've been going through terrible anxiety and started having panic attacks, including at work. It's been horrible and I've felt so out of control. Luckily this week in Greece was booked ages ago and it couldn't have come at a better time. My anxiety has decreased so much since being away so I'm hoping it doesn't return when I get home. 

On another note, I've finally been matched with an egg donor almost 11 months after going on the waiting list! It's now all happening quickly as I started the pill today and baseline scan is in 2 weeks. Transfer is likely to be end of july.  Feel positive despite being the heaviest I've ever been and unprepared physically and mentally but am nervous of the outcome. If it doesn't work then it's the end of the road of us and I'm scared of having to face that. 

Lots of love to you all. xxx


----------



## Kris76

Hi Efi, it depends on when the results of my ERA test come back.  It will be a couple of weeks at least.  Then it will be up to me when I want to transfer them.  I am only doing one at a time. My Dr wont transfer them together. Which is fine by me, I have a better chance separately.  I am completely freaking out at the thought of transferring one, as I have already had a failure with a normal embryo.  The fear it will happen again is all consuming.  I almost don't want to do it. However, I won't leave it for too long.  I need to know either way. I guess I will be transferring sometime in July. You're obviously doing a medicated FET.  I have done natural and medicated.  I prefer natural but my Dr likes to control the situation so recommends for me to do a medicated FET.  My blood test on the day of my ERA showed my progesterone was low, it was at rock bottom on the day i transferred my normal one. That ****** me off, why don't they test before, rather than on the day.  I didn't know until the day after transfer and then they had me on the lubion shots.  They are horrendous. My OH was away at the time, so I had to go in to the clinic everyday to get them as I can't reach and inject my own bum.  Has to be in a specific spot. 

Magic!!  Hi.  So glad you messaged even though you are on holiday.  You are very lucky, I wish I were in Greece.  It will not stop raining here, miserable.  Thanks for your well wishes.  Wow, that is quite a break.  A huge congrats on being matched!  That is great news.  Yes, I'm sure it is moving quickly and you feel overwhelmed but it will come together as it's meant to.  I hear you about the anxiety, it's dreadful.  Im glad that the holiday has helped.  Distraction helps me too. I guess you have to try and keep that up in any way possible when you return. Try and take the focus away.  I know what you mean about wanting to get in shape for transfer.  I feel the same, which is one of the reasons I decided to hold off for a little bit.  I have been eating my emotions for the past 18 months.  Then I thought there are women all over the world, all shapes and sizes that are getting and staying pregnant.  So it doesn't really matter at the end of the day.  Its not like you are unhealthy. You have an excellent chance of this working.  I really hope it does.  I know how you feel.  I said to my OH last night, that if the 2 embryos don't work, then that is it for me. I can't go through this anymore and I don't have the strength to go through donor rounds.  I have put everything into trying with my own and I have nothing left to give. I'm petrified of having to face that possibility too.  So let's just keep telling ourselves that this is our round, it is going to work. 
Enjoy the rest of your holiday.  Keep us updated. xx


----------



## Syd72

Deblovescats, I'm loving it, thank you.

Kris, wishing you so much luck!  It is way beyond your time.  You're amazing to have done what you've done.  On my successful round my progesterone was so low on transfer day that I got called back to the clinic for a shot and was then on injections for the next 12 weeks.  I felt more relaxed knowing I was on such a high dose.

Magic, how exciting!  I've found that donor rounds are so much easier than own egg rounds, best of luck.

I still haven't had a chance to catch up but definitely will soon!


----------



## Efi78

Kris76

What you said about not having anything more to give has hit home. Feeling exactly the same. I have given everything trying with OE and I feel deflated. I wouldn’t be able to face DE rounds or even adoption. After this FET this is it for me. 4 rounds, 4 FETs, 2 fibroid surgeries, 1 TFMR, 2 silent miscarriages, uncountable medical exams and one TESE for hubby enough is enough. Of course never say never but i really don’t have any more strength left in me. I want to focus on the good things I have and enjoy life without timed intercourse, injections, invasive medical tests etc. i think I would like to focus on healing and pampering me and my husband. 

Magicpillow - Good to hear from you darling. I m glad you are enjoying Greece. I am Greek myself. Are you on an island?
I completely understand how you feel. I have been there. I was the most laid back person before infertility. After the TFMR I plunged into a very dark place. I started having phobias I might lose someone I love, I became hypochondriac and so stressed. I started having anxiety, sometimes difficulty to breath etc. I decided for the first time in my life I needed help. So I started seeing a councilor and started CBT. It did me a world of good. Today I am again back to my old self. Strong, relaxed, confident. Fertility can take people to a very dark place. But if you need to, do not hesitate to ask for help. Psycotherapy can help immensely. Not only in fertility. It makes you see things quite differently. I wish you all the best for this cycle  

Syd72 - how is your little one doing? How do you feel being a mom?

How is everyone else on this thread? I believe Tootles gave birth in March 2019. Check her signature. What about Cece? How is life with twins?


----------



## Kris76

Hi Syd, so wonderful to hear from you! Thanks for the well wishes.  How is your little bubs?  Life must be good with your baby now in the world. I'm happy to hear that it still worked even though you had low progesterone on the day of transfer.  I thought that it may have been a possible reason for it not implanting for me. 

Efi, you pretty much summed up how I feel.  It would be so nice just to focus on yourself and your husband and enjoy yourselves again without all the worry.  My OH said to me this week, remember the days when we were carefree. It's wonderful that you got help when you needed it.  I definitely could do with it myself. 

I was wondering about Tootles.  I was hoping that she would give us an update. Do you know what she had?


----------



## Efi78

Hi Kris

In her signature she says she had a girl. She must be so busy with a newborn. Hopefully she will give us an update soon


----------



## magicpillow

Hi ladies.  Thanks for the nice messages about my upcoming donor cycle.  Efi that's cool that you are Greek.  I love Greece; even thought about doing treatment there.  We were at a resort on the mainland in Halkidiki.  Flew into Thessaloniki and when down from there.  I had such an amazing week and it was so hard to come back yesterday.  It did me the world of good. 

I came home to a load of info from my clinic about the donor cycle with consent forms etc and I was surprised to see that if the donor gets a high number of eggs, they will be split between two recipients.  Wtf!!  I was never told this at any point and even asked during my monitored cycle if they will be split between just me and the donor and they said yes.  I'm so angry about it as we are spending so much money and I've been waiting a year.  I read later on that they split between two recipients (me and the egg bank) if the donor gets 24 eggs or more. I know it's very unlikely that they would get that many but I would worry that if they did, lots of them might be immature. The eggs are always split blind without assessing whether they are mature or not so it's pot luck.  I just feel so angry that I was never told this at any point and this is the first time I've seen it written down anywhere.  I'd be tempted to abandon and go abroad but the donor sperm is already in the clinic and we can't ship that abroad due to the difference in anonymity laws.    It has really put me off my clinic.  Funnily enough I did see a warning about this on the egg share board but thought 'surely they wouldn't do that'.  It was that post that prompted me to check earlier in the year and they said it's just me receiving the other eggs.  I'm definitely going to email them.


----------



## Lindaangelbaby

Hi Ladies, 

I would like to introduce myself, just joined the forum after my first IVF (modified natural cycle )  - with a negative pregnancy test results :-(
i am 42 yo, AMH 1.2 , FSH was 19 so they advised to do only the modified natural version. they said embryo was good quality (type 4), but still not good outcome. 
I would like to ask you which clinic would you recommend from experience for over 40 ? still wanna try with OE.

Thank you very much.


----------



## magicpillow

Hi Lindaangelbaby.  Sorry to hear your first cycle was unsuccessful.  I think there are many good clinics in London for over 40s (and I'm sure elsewhere).  I know that Zita West have lots of success with women over 40 and Lister.  Some people like Create as they favour natural/modified cycles which some say helps when they are less eggs of good quality. xx


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Magic, your trip sounds glorious, I just googled the place, looks beautiful.  I am looking for a holiday, sick of the rain.  I have been to Thessaloniki before, however, I was in the villages visiting family/friends.  I'm desperate for a beach holiday. 
Yes, I completely agree with your outrage over the splitting of the eggs.  I recently found out that they do this and I was shocked.  The nerve, you spend so much money on a donor round and they don't even give you the fully batch.  As you said, so many will be immature and you don't know what you are going to get. I can't believe they didn't disclose this to you.  You definitely need to bring it up with them. However, I didn't know that they do it if the donor produces 24+ eggs.  Double check this, as I thought that they split it regardless. It is very off putting. I do hope you get a quality crop.  Let us know how it unfolds. 

Efi, that is great that Toots had a little girl.  I hope she gives us an update when she has a minute. 

Hi Lindaangelbaby, welcome.  I sorry to hear about your first round, it is always hard to take. Great that you had a good quality embryo, it's just a numbers game until you can get a normal one.  As magic said there a a lot of good clinics.  Where are you based?  I'm London so only know London based ones.  I'm at the Lister and I think they are great.  I'm 43 and still trying with my own eggs.  Their embryologists and lab is fantastic and that for me, is just as important, if not more than the Drs. However, they also have great Drs. I too, have heard good things about Zita West and Create.  I choose the Lister by going to a fertility festival and speaking to different clinics, I clicked best with Lister.  You should have consultations with a handful of clinics and see which one suits you best.  Good luck with it.


----------



## Bics76

Hello ladies! 

This is another quick one (sorry)! I promise I’ll catch up properly and I’m sorry not to come back to each of you. I just wanted to say best of luck as I see from reading through there is a lot happening!! Thanks also for the lovely messages 🤗❤

Kris, a quick one for you to say that I whooped with delight when I saw that you had two normal embryos. You sooo deserve it and more lovely. I know how nervous you must be. I had one normal one after PGS and was petrified. I just quickly wanted to say that my consultant told me to go to a high fibre diet in the lead up to transfer as he said research had shown that it improved success rates. Now I know these things are impossible properly to demonstrate in amongst all of the other things going on (drugs etc) and who knows if it made any difference for me, but I did it anyway (and after a long time of a low carb diet it was actually nice to have a massive bowl of All Bran every day!). Just thought I’d mention. 

Linda, just to say that I was 42 when I started my cycle and I saw Rehan Salim privately at Hammersmith hospital. I thought he was amazing (he was totally gutted when our first cycle didn’t work the previous summer and in his words wanted to throw everything at the second cycle so we knew we’d tried it all as it was our last time. His specialism is recurrent miscarriage which is why I chose him).  

Finally, my little girl was not graded the best of my embryos but ultimately she was the only normal one (none of mine were top graded and my consultant didn’t even tell me what they were, I had to ask him. He said he didn’t set much store in grading. Maybe he’s right, as I have little one currently sleeping on my lap 😊  I just meant that if anyone gets a lower grading than hoped for not to panic). 

I’m wishing you all so much luck and strength with cycles, collection, transfers, donors, FETs, just everything really. 

AFM, my baby girl is now 3.5 months and she’s golden. I know I’m very, very lucky to have her and I think of you all often. 

Love and light to all, 

Bics x


----------



## Kris76

Hi Bics!!

So lovely to hear from you.  I'm so chuffed for you. Can't believe she is 3.5 months already!  You are very inspiring and give me hope that one of them will at least work. I already have a girls name picked and a few boys names but I keep that to myself as I don't want to jinx it.  Thanks for the tip re the fibre, I didn't know that but I will definitely add more fibre into the diet. Yep, low carb diets suck.  I love me some carbs. 

Give your baby girl cuddles from us all. 

xx


----------



## miamiamo

Bics76 - and cuddles from me, too  for your little princess. xx


----------



## Lindaangelbaby

Thank you All for your answers  - Magicpillow, Bics76,Kris76 - forgive me if i did not mention somebody 
I am still finding my way on this forum, so much to read . And i am so emotional and  when i see that you all been through so much i am thinking how strong you are Ladies, i am just in the very beginning of my journey...
I will look into some clinics website that you recommended and get some appointments see which one feels better for me, although dont wanna waste too much time looking around, feels like i am running out of time...

I do leave in London so interesting in these area . 

Good luck to you All xx


----------



## Jupiter 96

I have to echo your sentiments Lindaangelbaby....

The ladies on this board are an inspiration. I too am just getting back in the game preparing for my first ever transfer.
It's been really humbling reading back on some of the shared experiences in this group

Jx


----------



## miamiamo

Lindaangelbaby, Jupiter 96 - Fingers, toes and everything I can crossed xx


----------



## Jupiter 96

Thanks Miamiamo

I am trying to wait patiently for my next bleed and have now been told that I can’t start until the bleed after that!

Patience is not a virtue that I possess.


----------



## Blodyn76

Hi ladies, 

Just a quick one as I could do with some info from IVF veterans. I'm 42 and about to go for round 3 next month, I've been put on the pill for a around 14 days to try and bring my period in line as the last few have been way off the wall (last cycle ended in septic miscarriage). Anyway, I was thinking about booking flights but from experience, I also know this to be an absolute nightmare (cycling in Greece) when leaving it to mother nature. My question is, am I more likely for AF to actually arrive when she's supposed too given the pill? And also, if that's the case, how many days after stopping should the period arrive?

Thanks all.


----------



## Kris76

Hi Blodyn

Sorry, I don't have any advise for you.  I've never been on the pill.  It's a tricky one to answer, as one thing I do know with periods and IVF, anything goes!!  There is no certainty. You just have to try and take an education guess and try and factor in some flexibility. Can't tell you how many plans have had to be changed due to following IVF cycles. 

Good luck.  Let us know how you go. x


----------



## Kris76

Hi Efi

Thinking of you.  Have you transferred yet?  Hoping all is going well with this round.  My fingers are crossed for you. 

xx


----------



## odashwood

Hi lovely ladies! How are you all?

While waiting for my another trip to Ukraine, I decided to google some more info about the latest innovations in the reproduction field and was surprised by what I have found. I am not surprised by modern technologies, frankly speaking. Never before I have noticed that humanity is evolving so quickly. Some countries are moving forward at the speed of light, while others are dying of poverty. Where's the justice?
I haven't been snooping around the bowels of the Internet for a long time and yesterday, I stumbled upon an article that somewhere in the USA doctors mixed up embryos and transplanted them to a surrogate. I also read that somewhere it will be decided soon to raise children in an artificial womb &#8230; What is this world coming to?
Despite all the absurdity of some events and innovations, I was still able to find something positive that had interested me. Maybe for some of you, it will also be interesting. 
I was looking for some more information about the last method of Mitochondrial donation and found two more articles about this:
https://biotexcom.com/mitochondrial-donation-an-opportunity-for-middle-aged-couples-to-become-parents-of-a-healthy-child/ 
https://biotexcom.com/mitochondrial-donation-the-opportunity-to-become-a-mother-at-the-age-of-40/


----------



## miamiamo

odashwood - thanks for sharing links. x


----------



## odashwood

miamiamo said:


> odashwood - thanks for sharing links. x


Not at all, dear. I have found some more new articles. I am surprised about how quickly new therapies are invented. If only they can help and have a good outcome...
How are you, dear? How is your journey?


----------



## magicpillow

Hi everyone.  Thinking of you all and sorry I haven't been very good at keeping up with things!

I thought I'd update you all that I had my embryo transfer yesterday so am currently in the 2ww - 19 months after my last cycle!  It's been a rollercoaster.  We've been doing egg share/donation and on egg collection day I got the news that we had got 4 eggs from the donor.  I was actually quite gutted as was worried some of them might be immature and I always used to get really good numbers with my own eggs.  Amazingly the next day we heard they had all fertilised.  I was booked in for a day 5 transfer which happened yesterday and I had a top quality hatching blastocyst transferred.  Never had top quality before!  We had another good quality one frozen and then today we heard that another one had made it to freeze.  Massively takes the pressure off that we have two frozen - in all my own egg cycles I never had a frozen embryo.  It was such an emotional day as I was so nervous and crying on the train in.  Then huge relief after transfer.  Then later on I got a call that my progesterone level had come back low so I've got to top up with prontogest injections (as well as the pessaries) and then go back next week for a repeat blood test.  Had another cry and then worried that I've now made it not work due to being emotional and not super zen!

I'm massively relieved and can't believe how lucky we got out of the 4 eggs.  I'm going to be terrified come test day that it's another BFN but I'll try and put that out of my mind for now!


----------



## Jupiter 96

Fingers crossed for you magicpillow!


----------



## magicpillow

Thanks Jupiter! xx


----------



## Syd72

Magicpillow, congrats on being pupo and best of luck!  On my successful round my progesterone was so low on transfer day that they called me back to Serum to give me an injection and then put me on prontogest.  I much prefer the injections to the pessaries!  Really surprised to hear that the eggs from your donor could be/were split, never heard that before with an overseas clinic and surely info. that you should have had from the beginning!

Sorry Blodyn, I haven't been on the pill in 20 years so can't help with your question.

Bics, congratulations on your daughter!

Kris, have you decided when to transfer?

Efi, how are you doing?

Hi to everyone else.  I'll really try and keep up a bit better in future!

x


----------



## miamiamo

magicpillow - I keep my fingers crossed super tight x


----------



## Kris76

A huge congratulations Magic!!  I'm so excited for you.  One in the oven and two in the freezer is a great result. I had that on one of my transfer, where I got called back as my progesterone was so low.  I went on the injections.  They were awful, left lumps on my bum. You do, what you gotta do. James doesn't believe in the progesterone levels anyway.  I really, really hope it works for you.  I'm putting the word out to the universe for you.  You deserve this. xx

Hi Syd, you're a busy mum.  Must be the best feeling. I have started my FET round.  I'm on day 4, argh, the progynova makes me feel so ill.  I'm very terrified though as my previous normal one failed and it's hard to get that out of my heard.  My ERA came back as normal.  Ill probably transfer around the 18th/19th.  

Hope everyone else is going well?
xx


----------



## Efi78

Magicpillow congratulations!!!! When is test day? 

Kris76 - good luck with your transfer! 

Syd72 - so wonderful to be a mum. How is the little one doing? 

Hello to everyone else! Inwish we could hear from Cece and Tootles as well. M

AFM - June FET was cancelled once more because I ovulated unexpectedly and they weren’t sure when to transfer because the doctor couldn’t pinpoint ovulation. So...attempt number three this month but not sure we are going ahead. It’s our last embryo and if we don’t get the doctor we want for the transfer or if it falls on a Saturday we may cancel again. If that happens I have  thoughts about a new fresh round in September.


----------



## magicpillow

Hi ladies and lovely to hear from you.  Kris I am keeping everything crossed for your FET.  Really hope this is it for you.

Efi, sorry your cycle was cancelled and there is more waiting.  Hope it all goes smoothly this time; good to think of a plan if not and could be worth another fresh go like you say?

Thanks for your kind words Syd and hello everyone else!

My OTD was yesterday and amazingly it was a bfp.  It wasn't a hugely strong line but I suppose at 9dp5dt it wouldn't be too strong?  I was so nervous the day before testing and ended up testing at 5am as was bursting for the loo.  I'm feeling relieved for now but very cautious as this is my 3rd bfp and the last two ended in miscarriage.  Trying to just stay in the moment and one day at a time otherwise it gets too scary to think I could miscarry at any time.  I've been booked in for an early scan in the last week of this month (just before my birthday argh).  I've got no motivation at work at the moment as I  just can't concentrate and feel exhausted from the stress of the cycle.  I was lucky enough to reduce my hours to 3 days a week during the cycle but I've got to go back to normal hours next week - shame!

Hope you're all ok; always rooting for you all. x


----------



## odashwood

Hi girls, how are you? 

Decided to make an update) I have been to btc clinic today and have switched my contracts from donation to surrogacy. So alive place is here, so many patients! I can't believe that there are so many couples with the same problems. I have noticed that more and more women suffer from infertility, unfortunately((( That's great that we have such clinics where we can gain an appropriate medical treatment. 
So my program was started and wish me luck.


----------



## pauli

Magic, that’s great news, many congratulations!!! I can imagine it is a very anxious time these first few weeks, wishing you that things will turn out to be fine! And I hope you will manage to stay optimistic. For me actually work proved to be the only thing to distract me and get me through the first few weeks. Hopefully you will find something to keep your mind distracted … keep thinking that this is your time to finally have success!  

I had a similar treatment: we only got 5 DE (and they were frozen!) through egg share, 1 blast transferred and 3 made it to the freezer. I also had 2 miscarriages in 2018 with OE but this 3rd BFP with DE is proving lucky. Obviously nothing is still guaranteed (until we have baby in our arms), but I am almost 31 weeks, and allowing myself to be more confident week by week.  

Protogest daily injections are horrid, I hear you. Unfortunately with medicated FET it is the best way to get enough progesterone (while in the fresh cycle your body produces natural progesterone). I cheated a bit on my FET as I opted for Lubion which can be injected into tummy subcutaneously, it was a breeze in comparison to Prontogest. In combination with pessaries I had good levels of progesterone, although the intramuscular injections are apparently the best.    

Syd, lovely to hear that all is well. How old is your little one now? Are you still in Hong Kong? How long is your maternity leave?  

Efi, sorry to hear about the cancelled FET. I do not mot have much experience with the FET, was it unmedicated / natural FET? If it feels right, you should absolutely go for another fresh cycle. I remember you were making plans to move to continental Europe. Is it still the plan?        

Kris, good luck with your FET! I know what you mean about Progynova, it gave me headaches for the first few days, but it got better (I guess the body just adapts to higher estrogen levels after a while). Fingers crossed this emby will implant! It’s amazing you have PGS tested embryos (I never achieved that), the odds of a good outcome must be something like 99.9%, right? I’d say the previous failed attempt was a statistical anomaly. All the best with the transfer!  

Odashwwod, good luck with your new plan, hopefully clinic will find the right surrogate quickly, the waiting is usually  the hardest part on this journey. 

Hello to everyone else xx


----------



## Efi78

Magicpillow CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!! Hope that in a few months you will be holding your baby in your arms 

Odashwood - so true about increasing infertility. 80% of my friends have fertility problems. And these started from a young age. It makes me wonder whether this is a coincidence. Is it the stress. Is it the food we eat? I don’t know.

Pauli - i am going for a semi- medicated cycle. It was my first scan today. It felt so depressing being in the clinic. I am not sire why. Yep this is the plan. At the moment i spent half time in germany half of my time in UK. Best of both worlds i guess 

Hello to everyone else. Looking forward to your news. xxx


----------



## odashwood

Thank you, girls, for the support!

Pauli, I know that it will be hard to wait but this time I am sure that I'll have my baby and that is why this waiting time gives me hope and faith. Pleasant chores and nice waiting are better than the bad ones. Time will pass faster, I know that)

Efi78 - our infertility, I think, is the result of ecology and stresses. Unfortunately, we can't get rid of it unless moving to some kind of an island with no facilities but just fresh air and an ocean))) We have to live in such conditions and learn how to adapt to the environment. Nothing else remains.


----------



## miamiamo

magicpillow - amazing news, congrats
odashwood - Good luck with your journey


----------



## odashwood

Finally, I had some time this weekend and not waste it decided to loo through a donor database. How huge it is! There are so many women who are ready to give their cells to others! I noticed that the database is becoming bigger day by day. I would have probably been a donor if I could)) It is so pleasant to do good things...


----------



## Syd72

So having promised to catch up a bit more on here my world has been shattered by a diagnosis of breast cancer. It’s a very aggressive cancer but fortunately hasn’t spread beyond my lymph nodes so hopeful of beating it x


----------



## StrawberrySundae

Syd I’ve not been on this thread for ages as now pregnant, but wanted to send you some love 💗 and positivity    So sorry to hear this and wishing you an abundance of strength! I’m sure you’ll seek out all the advice & medical support you need and I hope you find positive visualisations helpful and healing too - there’s lots of information out there (eg Hay House). Keep yourself inspired, mind over matter, and be kind to yourself   You’ve been so strong doing all this ivf, you can get through this too! xxx

Strawberry xx


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hi all,
A bit of radio silence from me as trying to get another cycle underway. But AF decided she didn’t want to show last month so everything is upside down. Can you believe it first time ever! 
Lovely to see the good news from people. It’s really inspiring and so pleased that some of us Over 40s are getting there...finally!
I’ve only read back a few pages so apologies if I have missed anyone 
Congrats and sending happy hugs to Magic pillow congrats on your bfp! 
Syd - great all is going well baby but so so sorry about your breast cancer diagnosis. I’m glad they caught it. Hope all goes ok with treatment. 
Cece glad all is well with new baby 
Bics - a girl! Amazing - congrats 
Kris76 - what a story, round ten and two normal embryos. Not surprised you were shocked 
Efi78 - something you said about having anxiety around losing someone you love, is a very real experience as a precious counsellor said a lot of ivf women go through this. Sadly we left her before she gave me tools to deal with those irrational emotions effectively. So any tips anyone can share would be welcome?
Hi to strawberry & anyone else I’ve missed. 

AFM currently waiting for ANOTHER period so we can Start our next cycle. 6th/7th here is hoping.  

X


----------



## Efi78

Syd72,

My heart broke when I read about the diagnosis. Although we haven’t met in person it feels like I know you. However, if it hasn’t spread the prognosis is good. Breast cancer of caught early is completely curable. You will get through this and be a winner once more. Keep us posted please. I want to know how you are getting on.

TigerSmiles - counseling is very handy indeed. IVF is an emotional rollercoaster and a good councilor helps one fond their perspective. 

Odashwood - good luck with your journey. How are you getting on?

Magicpillow - how are you getting on? I saw a girl the other day at Lister and felt it was you. I am not sure why? Gut instict? 

Kris76 - was trying to locate you at the Lister but no luck 

Pauli how are you? Hello to everyone else

AFM - You can laugh out loudly...my FET was cancelled once more...third time. Why? I ovulated despite LH suppression, this they weren’t sure which day to transfer. The ridiculous thing? I went in on Friday, lining 7.6mm, follicle 20mm. I was told to do Cetrotide and trigger the following day after midday. I insisted on as scan just in case I ovulate before trigger. They thought it was unnecessary, I insisted it wasn’t. Guess what! I had ovulated! If I hadn’t gone for a scan we would have transferred a day5 embryo on day8! Unbelievable! 
I really don’t know what else to do. Sometimes it feels that fertility clinic don’t pay attention to detail and they lack controls.


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Oh no Efi! What’s going to be the next step. It is so infuriating when clinics don’t listen. It should be a pre-requisite. After all you know your body better than anyone else. Hope they can arrange another time for you. X


----------



## odashwood

Syd72 said:


> So having promised to catch up a bit more on here my world has been shattered by a diagnosis of breast cancer. It's a very aggressive cancer but fortunately hasn't spread beyond my lymph nodes so hopeful of beating it x


My uncle had breast cancer and I know how hard it is! But if it hasn't spread beyond your lymph nodes it is good. You have a chance to get rid of it. I know many women with this diagnosis who live now without any sign of it. I wish you strength, all the best! If you want to talk to somebody, you are welcome, dear! Be blessed!


----------



## odashwood

Efi78 said:


> Syd72,
> 
> My heart broke when I read about the diagnosis. Although we haven't met in person it feels like I know you. However, if it hasn't spread the prognosis is good. Breast cancer of caught early is completely curable. You will get through this and be a winner once more. Keep us posted please. I want to know how you are getting on.
> 
> TigerSmiles - counseling is very handy indeed. IVF is an emotional rollercoaster and a good councilor helps one fond their perspective.
> 
> Odashwood - good luck with your journey. How are you getting on?
> 
> Magicpillow - how are you getting on? I saw a girl the other day at Lister and felt it was you. I am not sure why? Gut instict?
> 
> Kris76 - was trying to locate you at the Lister but no luck
> 
> Pauli how are you? Hello to everyone else
> 
> AFM - You can laugh out loudly...my FET was cancelled once more...third time. Why? I ovulated despite LH suppression, this they weren't sure which day to transfer. The ridiculous thing? I went in on Friday, lining 7.6mm, follicle 20mm. I was told to do Cetrotide and trigger the following day after midday. I insisted on as scan just in case I ovulate before trigger. They thought it was unnecessary, I insisted it wasn't. Guess what! I had ovulated! If I hadn't gone for a scan we would have transferred a day5 embryo on day8! Unbelievable!
> I really don't know what else to do. Sometimes it feels that fertility clinic don't pay attention to detail and they lack controls.


Sorry to hear about your canceled cycle(( I understand how frustrating it is. Maybe you will think about changing the clinic or a doctor at least? 
AFM - I am good. Working and living)) Thinking and dreaming about my future baby. It is too early to ask about the news but at least I gave them the list of donors we have chosen for now. Waiting.. Waiting and waiting...)


----------



## odashwood

miamiamo said:


> magicpillow - amazing news, congrats
> odashwood - Good luck with your journey


How are you? How was your weekend? How do you feel? I didn't see any news from you last days so decided to write to you and ask.


----------



## pauli

Hi Syd, so sorry to hear your news. Such a blow but as others said, you are a strong lady and you can beat this illness. Undergoing all the fertility treatments made you even more resilient and able to fight. Your little boy will give you even more strength to get through this. I do not come on this board very often as currently pregnant, but will be looking for updates from you xx  

Efi, sounds you are enjoying splitting your life between DE and UK. Sorry to hear about your cancelled FET (again). Have you tried medicated FET on the previous attempts? I think they are easier to manage, but I only did one medicated FET so do I not have much experience. Has the clinic recommended something different for the next cycle? You mentioned you were considering the fresh cycle. If you do go ahead, you could transfer your frozen embryo following the fresh cycle and either freeze the new embryos or transfer multiples embryos?            

Tiger Smiles, hope your AF will show up as expected so you can start Tx again, are you doing anything different at the next cycle? Wishing you all the best!  

Kris, how is your cycle going? Have you transferred your PGS tested embryo? Fingers crossed for you. 

Magicpillow, hope all is well with you and your early scan will bring more good news. These early stages are tough, thinking of you.  

Odashwood, keep thinking and dreaming of your baby, it helps with the positive mindset! I am no expert, but have read about visualisation and how helpful it can be. Good luck on your journey.  

Hello to everyone else, have a good week xx


----------



## Kris76

Oh my God, Syd!!!  I'm completely shocked and utterly devastated.  I cannot believe this has happened to you.  The cruelty of the universe is mental. I'm so glad to hear it hasn't reached your lymph nodes.  Oh Syd, I am sending you every possible bit of love and luck your way.  I am so, so sorry to hear this. It's such an unfair disease.  We'll be thinking of you and your little boy Syd.

Magic I am so happy to hear that you have got your BFP.  I completely understand your caution about getting overly excited, but it's a damn good start.  Have you had your beta test?  I really hope this one sticks for you Magic.  You certainly deserve it. 

Pauli, so good to hear from you.  Super happy you are doing well at 31 weeks. I am going to have to start protogest daily injections, I hate them but gotta do what you gotta do. 

Tiger, I hope your period starts so you can get going with another cycle.  It's all so tiresome. 

Efi, cancelled again!  That's madness. It sounds like you need to go on a fully medicated cycle, so they can control all aspects.  They will put you on synarel and you will be guaranteed not to ovulate. Yes, I do agree, I too sometimes wonder if they know what the hell they are doing.  I feel like often they just wing it. So will you do a fresh round now?

AFM, I am transferring on Thursday.  I feel sick with nervousness.  We have finally completed on the flat and are moving out on the weekend.  Still so much packing to do.  Not great timing as there are loads of heavy boxes that I will need to lug up 2 flights of stairs to our rental. 

Sending love to everyone, especially you Syd. xx


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Still waiting for AF! I’ve decided she’s taken a summer break, hope she’s back soon. Lol
Pauli / not doing anything different tbh. Just trying to eat healthier I swear this whole process has made me gain wait. Just agonisingly waiting for AF to F in show up! DH says it’s not far off as today I put the remote in the fridge, accidentally broke a glass coaster and apparently I swear 
More when she’s coming lol so we’ll see! Hope your progesterone injections are ok?


Kris76 good luck for transfer on Thursday. I really do hope all goes well. I can completely understand your nervousness. Is there anything that helps you relax before it? I just made sure I had my toenails painted and fabulous socks. Silly I know but it did help. You mentioned up magic about a Beta Test? What is that?

Syd, Effie hope you are doing ok between cancelled cycle and diagnosis. Sending you stay strong hugs. 

Hi to anyone I’ve not mentioned by name. Much love too. X


----------



## odashwood

pauli said:


> Hi Syd, so sorry to hear your news. Such a blow but as others said, you are a strong lady and you can beat this illness. Undergoing all the fertility treatments made you even more resilient and able to fight. Your little boy will give you even more strength to get through this. I do not come on this board very often as currently pregnant, but will be looking for updates from you xx
> 
> Efi, sounds you are enjoying splitting your life between DE and UK. Sorry to hear about your cancelled FET (again). Have you tried medicated FET on the previous attempts? I think they are easier to manage, but I only did one medicated FET so do I not have much experience. Has the clinic recommended something different for the next cycle? You mentioned you were considering the fresh cycle. If you do go ahead, you could transfer your frozen embryo following the fresh cycle and either freeze the new embryos or transfer multiples embryos?
> 
> Tiger Smiles, hope your AF will show up as expected so you can start Tx again, are you doing anything different at the next cycle? Wishing you all the best!
> 
> Kris, how is your cycle going? Have you transferred your PGS tested embryo? Fingers crossed for you.
> 
> Magicpillow, hope all is well with you and your early scan will bring more good news. These early stages are tough, thinking of you.
> 
> Odashwood, keep thinking and dreaming of your baby, it helps with the positive mindset! I am no expert, but have read about visualisation and how helpful it can be. Good luck on your journey.
> 
> Hello to everyone else, have a good week xx


Oh, by the way, you are perfectly right about visualization. I have read a lot about that and I know that it really works. Every year, I write my aims, desires, and goals in a notebook, cut and stick some pics and look at the list from time to time. Something comes true, something not but still, it is a sort of a reminder for me for not to stop and go ahead, work on myself and self-development.


----------



## pauli

Hi Kris, congratulations on selling your place! Not the best timing to be moving after the transfer, but it sometimes it cannot be helped so just take it easy. Try to pack smaller & lighter boxes. It is a good exercise to go up and down the stairs, just leave the heavy boxes to others!    

Progesterone intermuscular injections are horrible, I hated them with a passion. BUT according to a number of clinics they work the best in terms of delivering progesterone to your body especially if you are doing a medicated FET (when your body does not produce any natural progesterone). I only did them for 2 weeks on one of our BFN cycles, but had to ask DH do them for me. My backside hurt for months afterwards. 

My sister (single mum) injected herself until she was around 11 weeks! Somehow she managed to inject into her buttocks from the side when laying down on her back. I cannot imagine how she managed to do that…  I “cheated” a bit on our DE FET cycle this year (which got me pregnant) and opted for Lubion which can be injected subcutaneously into the tummy. I supplemented with the pessaries. (I stopped progesterone at 11-12 weeks). It was a bit risky approach and I did not tell the clinic (a bit naughty) so not suggesting anybody should do this. 

Hope you are copying ok with the injections, and your partner is skilled and can help you with them! Fingers crossed all goes well with your transfer on Thursday! XX 

Hi Tiger, I think your DH has a good sense of humour ;-) It is good when our DHs / partners can make us laugh during this stressful process. I hear you about putting the weight on. I gained quite a bit during the process. I remember on our first IVF cycle when a nurse was training me to inject into tummy, she was worried as I had no fat on my tummy, but it quickly changed! Fingers crossed it is not long before AF makes an appearance! XX

AFM all good with us, made it past 32 weeks now, the little one seems to have strong limbs (it feels like a small octopus ;-) moving around in my tummy)

hello to everyone xx


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Time to get visualising for me Dashwood! 
Pauli, that's wonderful news glad all is going well.
I think it's actually good to have a bit of extra umm lets called it "love plump' on the belly when injecting, during my earlier rounds I had a six pack and it bloody hurt more. So I'm telling myself, this is all part of the journey. But still need to get in relative shape so I'm not completely out of breath carrying baby. 
AFM - still waiting! But went for a lovely jog today so feeling positive and it helped shift my mood. It is so hard to get motivated for work when there is another cycle at the forefront of my mind. We shall see what tomorrow brings! 
Sending hugs to all. Staying positive  x



odashwood said:


> pauli said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Syd, so sorry to hear your news. Such a blow but as others said, you are a strong lady and you can beat this illness. Undergoing all the fertility treatments made you even more resilient and able to fight. Your little boy will give you even more strength to get through this. I do not come on this board very often as currently pregnant, but will be looking for updates from you xx
> 
> Efi, sounds you are enjoying splitting your life between DE and UK. Sorry to hear about your cancelled FET (again). Have you tried medicated FET on the previous attempts? I think they are easier to manage, but I only did one medicated FET so do I not have much experience. Has the clinic recommended something different for the next cycle? You mentioned you were considering the fresh cycle. If you do go ahead, you could transfer your frozen embryo following the fresh cycle and either freeze the new embryos or transfer multiples embryos?
> 
> Tiger Smiles, hope your AF will show up as expected so you can start Tx again, are you doing anything different at the next cycle? Wishing you all the best!
> 
> Kris, how is your cycle going? Have you transferred your PGS tested embryo? Fingers crossed for you.
> 
> Magicpillow, hope all is well with you and your early scan will bring more good news. These early stages are tough, thinking of you.
> 
> Odashwood, keep thinking and dreaming of your baby, it helps with the positive mindset! I am no expert, but have read about visualisation and how helpful it can be. Good luck on your journey.
> 
> Hello to everyone else, have a good week xx
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, by the way, you are perfectly right about visualization. I have read a lot about that and I know that it really works. Every year, I write my aims, desires, and goals in a notebook, cut and stick some pics and look at the list from time to time. Something comes true, something not but still, it is a sort of a reminder for me for not to stop and go ahead, work on myself and self-development.
Click to expand...


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Tiger, you made me laugh out loud.  I do that kind of stuff on the IVF drugs.  I'm sure your period will arrive soon.  Well done on the run.  I had acupuncture today and I meditate to try and relax myself.  I too get a pedicure before transfer.  A beta test is done at the clinic, its a blood test that determines the levels of the hormone beta-hCG.  A viable pregnancy should be a certain level. 

Pauli, I don't know how your sister did them on her own.  I just couldn't reach around and hit the correct position.  It was really stressful last time I had to have them as my partner was in the US for work and I had to go in to the clinic every day so a nurse could inject me.  They didn't want to do that, and said they would charge me £40 each time, however, I started crying in the reception area and they felt bad for me and just did it.  Cheeky buggers, we have ploughed £55k in to that damn place, that is the least they can do. Some rounds my progesterone has been normal and other times low.  They are giving it to me as a precaution. 
Very exciting Pauli...also I literally visualised an octopus in your belly. 

Syd, I hope you are ok? Thinking of you. 

xx


----------



## odashwood

Kris76 said:


> Oh my God, Syd!!! I'm completely shocked and utterly devastated. I cannot believe this has happened to you. The cruelty of the universe is mental. I'm so glad to hear it hasn't reached your lymph nodes. Oh Syd, I am sending you every possible bit of love and luck your way. I am so, so sorry to hear this. It's such an unfair disease. We'll be thinking of you and your little boy Syd.
> 
> Magic I am so happy to hear that you have got your BFP. I completely understand your caution about getting overly excited, but it's a damn good start. Have you had your beta test? I really hope this one sticks for you Magic. You certainly deserve it.
> 
> Pauli, so good to hear from you. Super happy you are doing well at 31 weeks. I am going to have to start protogest daily injections, I hate them but gotta do what you gotta do.
> 
> Tiger, I hope your period starts so you can get going with another cycle. It's all so tiresome.
> 
> Efi, cancelled again! That's madness. It sounds like you need to go on a fully medicated cycle, so they can control all aspects. They will put you on synarel and you will be guaranteed not to ovulate. Yes, I do agree, I too sometimes wonder if they know what the hell they are doing. I feel like often they just wing it. So will you do a fresh round now?
> 
> AFM, I am transferring on Thursday. I feel sick with nervousness. We have finally completed on the flat and are moving out on the weekend. Still so much packing to do. Not great timing as there are loads of heavy boxes that I will need to lug up 2 flights of stairs to our rental.
> 
> Sending love to everyone, especially you Syd. xx


Hi hun. Thursday is already tomorrow, so soon)) How are you? How do you feel? Are you ready for the transfer? Do you already know what you will be doing during the 2ww stage? Did your doctor give you any recommendations about that?


----------



## odashwood

I don't know if it will be fair to share some other story here but not mine. Maybe for somebody, it will be hard to read but I hope that somebody will find it inspiring. 
During my treatment abroad I met a girl and we have started to chat. It is cool to find a pen-friend, you know. So, in a few words, she's been ttc for several years and after she found info about a new method of treatment, she decided to try it. She had many cycles and several miscarriages so there was nothing to lose for her. And you know, after the second attempt (using MD) she got bfp. I met her when she was already pregnant. And yesterday I got a message that she has given birth to an amazing little girl - healthy and beautiful! All her previous doctor told her that she has no chances to have her own baby but she proved that there is nothing impossible! My best congratulations to her and best wishes to all of you and all of us!!! Baby dust!


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Awww thanks for sharing dashwood. Let’s hope those of us who are not there yet will get there. What a lovely story. 
AFM still waiting on AF, she’s now four days late. Still sanely waiting ❤❤


----------



## odashwood

Tiger Smiles said:


> Awww thanks for sharing dashwood. Let's hope those of us who are not there yet will get there. What a lovely story.
> AFM still waiting on AF, she's now four days late. Still sanely waiting ❤❤


Agree with you. Inspiring story)) And for you, I wish a best of luck)) Hope AF will arrive soon))


----------



## miamiamo

amazing story with happy end. Thank you


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Soooo any non chemical ideas to induce a period. Still no sign!
I read that a hot water bottle can help. So last night I slept with one in my stomach. It was absolutely boiling and I was sweating like nobody’s business! Still nothing lol 
Hope everyone is doing ok


----------



## Kris76

Hi ladies

Hi Dashwood, well its done. Feel fine. Ha, not much to do during the next 10 days but wait and hope for the best. No, I haven't talked to my Dr about the wait before, there's not much they can say about it.  This is my twelfth transfer.  I'm a veteran at it. I just carry on as normal. 

Tiger it is like watching a pot to boil.  How about jumping up and down ahah, get things moving.  

xx


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hi all,
Hope everyone is doing as well as can be. 
-Kris76 I didn’t realise it was your twelfth transfer. How are you feeling? So are you in the 2ww now? Aw I hope this really does stick if that’s the case. 
AFM noooo sign yet still. If nothing has happened before this month is out then I think I’ll see if can speak to clinic. But yeah been jumping up and down like a loon! Going running tomorrow so hopefully that helps. Good analogy Kris, though I think watching a pot of boiling water would be more fun! 🤣


----------



## odashwood

Kris76 said:


> Hi ladies
> 
> Hi Dashwood, well its done. Feel fine. Ha, not much to do during the next 10 days but wait and hope for the best. No, I haven't talked to my Dr about the wait before, there's not much they can say about it. This is my twelfth transfer. I'm a veteran at it. I just carry on as normal.
> 
> Tiger it is like watching a pot to boil. How about jumping up and down ahah, get things moving.
> 
> xx


Good sense of humor is great! You made me laugh))) But really, 12th transfer How could you have been able to bear all of this? How do you feel after all these stims? You are a real heroine, you know! That's amazing that after so many issues you are still on a road continuing your journey with so positive mood! You are amazing, hun!


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hi all,
Just a quick message to let you know. I can report that auntie Flo has turned up! Better late than never. Though as I posted in another group I downed a la hen night style copious amounts of pineapple juice. Who knows it worked, but actually Kris & dashwood I did do lots of jumping around too as I was at a party the day before. So there we have it conclusive evidence (umm not) that dancing and pineapple juice can start a period... nb or it may be just a huge coincidence!
Ok I guess time to make up with DH with my period kicking in and also being tired made me a grumpy intolerant bear. We’ve got a huge next two weeks so we need to be besties again. Anyone else get exhausted by this too??! Got m eye on the prize at the end though.


----------



## magicpillow

Hi ladies.  Thanks for sharing that story Odashwood.  Tiger I'm glad aunt flo finally turned up!
I need to go back and see if I've missed any updates.  I just thought I'd let you know that I had the early scan on earlier this week at 6w5d and we saw the heartbeat thank goodness!  Was also measuring where it should be. I was so so nervous as we've always had bad news at the early scan and I'd been having spotting (brown) in the days leading up to it.  It was such as relief but of course the worry sets in again shortly afterwards!  I haven't really had any symptoms other than cramps and tiredness.  I'm now 7w3d and we've booked a private scan for around 9 weeks.  Just really hoping this little bean will stick with us!


----------



## odashwood

magicpillow said:


> Hi ladies. Thanks for sharing that story Odashwood. Tiger I'm glad aunt flo finally turned up!
> I need to go back and see if I've missed any updates. I just thought I'd let you know that I had the early scan on earlier this week at 6w5d and we saw the heartbeat thank goodness! Was also measuring where it should be. I was so so nervous as we've always had bad news at the early scan and I'd been having spotting (brown) in the days leading up to it. It was such as relief but of course the worry sets in again shortly afterwards! I haven't really had any symptoms other than cramps and tiredness. I'm now 7w3d and we've booked a private scan for around 9 weeks. Just really hoping this little bean will stick with us!


Oh dear! It's areally great news. Finally, you herd that the most pleasant sound in the world. I'll be looking forward to your updates after the scan on the 9th week and keeping everything crossed for a good result. Be careful and don't worry much as it may influence the pregnancy. Good luck hun.


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hey all, 

-Efi what is the latest with you after you unfortunately ovualated. So sorry again that this happened.

-Odashwood - how is working through the donor list going?
-Kris -your ten day countdown must be nearly over. How you feeling?
-Pauli glad baby octopus lol is doing well

AFM now in Cyprus, had day 5 stim scan, a few follicles there so all looking good at moment, next scan on Weds and if all looking good I’ll move from Meronial to cetrotide to prevent ovulation. Nothing to report on Meronial, I haven’t had tonnes of side effects, only today days 5 do I feel like an old woman afternoon nap. So that’s what’s about to happen!


----------



## pauli

Tiger, great news about AF finally showed up and you started the cycle. Exciting! Cyprus sounds like a holiday destination, hopefully the treatment will feel less stressful if you get to enjoy the location. Good luck with the treatment! X  

Kris, hope as a 'veteran' you are managing to keep sane in 2ww ;-) Your OTD must be close now. Fingers crossed for BFP! The odds are good with PGS tested embryo X
    
Magic, this is the best news! Congratulations! I also had extra private scans in the early stages, it helped me to keep positive mind-set. Wishing you a good pregnancy journey ahead X    

Syd, not sure if you are still reading this thread… thinking of you and sending a lot of energy  xx


----------



## Loopie Lou

Helenbeau I just wanted to say what a lovely post you sent


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hey all,
Pauli - thanks yes AF is here, though now on my final few days almost finished! 
Yes weather is lovely but more importantly, as I'm sure lots of you will agree. 
I am away from work which actually allows me to rest properly. I've been stimulating with meronial (similar to menopur) injection. I don't know whether it is the injection or just regular cycle thing as I am on my period too, but I am sleeping like a baby. That is a baby that sleeps of course.   So being away from home and UK allows me not to have a ) the guilt of a lie-in and b) being out of the country, people at work leave me alone. None of that phone ringing "hiya, sooo sorry to disturb you. I know you are off but...!"   So being away I have my phone on aeroplane mode and don't take calls only from family. Bliss!  

The clinic are really nice, the staff are so friendly, professional and empathetic. One of the clinicians nearly made me blub when I went for the scan yesterday, she asked had DH and I just got married, we laughed and replied: "for ten years". She was genuinely shocked and said she was surprised as there was so much love between us and we acted like newlyweds. I know it's silly but it just made me feel really happy. But still a bit of a journey to go, only on day 6 now. and one scan in. So we shall see what the next few days brings.  Hope everyone is doing as well as possible, whatever stage they are at. xx


----------



## odashwood

Tiger Smiles said:


> Hey all,
> 
> -Efi what is the latest with you after you unfortunately ovualated. So sorry again that this happened.
> 
> -Odashwood - how is working through the donor list going?
> -Kris -your ten day countdown must be nearly over. How you feeling?
> -Pauli glad baby octopus lol is doing well
> 
> AFM now in Cyprus, had day 5 stim scan, a few follicles there so all looking good at moment, next scan on Weds and if all looking good I'll move from Meronial to cetrotide to prevent ovulation. Nothing to report on Meronial, I haven't had tonnes of side effects, only today days 5 do I feel like an old woman afternoon nap. So that's what's about to happen!


Hi Tiger. Thanks for asking. We have already chosen several donors we like and have sent this info to our coordinator. Now we will be waiting till they check their availability. I think it won't be earlier than they found a surrogate for us. I hope it won't take more than a month. 
I'm glad to hear about your progress with follicles and looking for your updates after tomorrow scan. Keeping fingers crossed for you.


----------



## Kris76

Hi all

Unfortunately for me, my 2nd tested normal embryo transfer didn't work.  I'm completely floored by the unfairness of it.  I can't even get myself out of bed, I cry all day long. Thanks for the well wishes. I just can't deal with this. 

Magic, I'm really happy you got to hear a heartbeat and all is going well so far. 
Tiger, thankfully your period arrived and you're on your way.  My fingers are crossed for you.  

Syd, sending you loads of love. 

It's 7pm and I've already gone to bed.  I only just remembered it's our 13 year anniversary today, I feel there is nothing to celebrate. 

I hope everyone else is well.  xx


----------



## Guest

I have been following this thread and am so sorry to hear this, seems unbelievable what has happened to you. Everybody thinks that when they have a PGS Normal then the chances are almost 80%. There really is nothing I can say as I know how it feels, I banked for 5 rounds took months had 9 great embryos on day 3 by transfer day 5 only had 2 left early blast and morula, BFN, all that work for that I was so upset, now at 44 coming to the end of all of this need to Move on after my last cycle this month. Hope you feel better later and can make decisions on how you want to go forward.


----------



## magicpillow

Oh Kris I am so so sorry.  I'm devastated for you.  It's been a brutal process and you gave it everything.  I was really hoping this one would be the one.  
Cath I'm sorry to hear about your cycle too. 
Thank you Pauli and Odashwood….I'm sorry I've not been good at keeping up.  I need to go back as I think I've missed a few updates along the way. xx


----------



## magicpillow

For some reason I completed missed Syd's post from a few pages back - Syd I'm so sorry about your diagnosis.  Life can really be unfair sometimes.  Thinking of you and hope your treatment goes well. xx


----------



## Efi78

Hi all,

Tiger - glad your period finally arrived. Good luck with your cycle

Odashwood - good luck with finding a surrogate 

Kris76 - sorry to hear that it didn’t work. IVF is an emotional rollercoaster. I hope the remaining blasto is the one. 

Magicpillow - glad to hear your news. I m sure this little bean will stick. All the best!

Syd - i am thinking of you. Sending you loads of hugs. 

Hello to everyone else 

AFM - after the cancelled cycle I had initially decided that I would transfer this month. At some point I felt really tired and burnt out. We discussed with hubby and realised that we have too much on our plate and we try to do all at once and it got too much. Therefore we booked two weeks holiday at a beautiful resort by the beach. I feel really relaxed and happy with the decision. I am not sure when I will transfer. I want to leave it on the backburner for a while. I don’t want to make too big deal out of it as at the end of the day chances are it won’t work anyway. I prefer to focus on other sides of my life that make me happier. I have resorted to the fact I might not have children and it has started feeling ok.


----------



## odashwood

Hello everybody! How are you? 
Tiger - congratulations with your periods. How are you?
Kris, don't lose your heart, you still have chances. Good luck dear!
Magicpillow, keeping everything crossed for your tiny to stick!
Efi, how do you feel? When are you going to have your transfer?
Cath, I am very sorry to hear your devastation(( Keep moving hun, faith makes wonders 

AFM - There is no news, unfortunately. Have had a good rest this weekend and now, returned to work. Still waiting... Hope it won't be more than a month


----------



## Syd72

Hi all, thank you for all the lovely comments and thoughts, much appreciated.

Pauli - huge congrats, I don't know that I knew you were pregnant, if you see what I mean.

Kris I'm so sorry, every time I come on here I so hope to see good news from you.  I know I've said it a million times but would you consider trying an overseas clinic that sometimes looks at things a little differently and thinks a bit outside the box?  I know how devastated I was when I had failed cycles, you've been through so many.

Magic, so happy you saw the heartbeat.

Best of luck to everyone else cycling or about to cycle, I'm just trying to catch up with the thread.

I'm doing ok.  It had spread to my lymph nodes but fortunately no further.  I can't remember what I said originally and can't scroll that far back at the mo so apologies if I'm repeating myself but it's a very aggressive cancer - any proliferation rate of over 10% is considered high and mine is 80%.  It's also something called triple negative which is the worst type of cancer.  However, it seems we have caught it pretty early, fortunately I went to the doctor as soon as I found the lump and since I have great private insurance got a same day biopsy and results two days later.  It was pretty much 4 weeks from finding the lump to starting chemo.  I'm having weekly chemo at the moment, 3rd one tomorrow.  So far no nasty side effects, they will build up but there are great drugs to control the nausea now fortunately.  My partner is a hairdresser so is all set to shave my head once my hair starts coming out.  He's going to shave his too to keep me company so our son, who up until now hasn't had much hair, will have the most in the family!  Will have weekly chemo for 12 weeks and then fortnightly for 8 weeks, providing the scan in a couple of weeks shows it's working.  If its not working I'll have to go straight to surgery but if it is, will probably have surgery after the chemo.  The type of cancer I have is normally genetic so waiting for those results to come back too.

Not to be too depressing but any of you that are breast feeding, please do be aware that whilst feeding your breast tissue is very dense so any issues may not show on a mammogram.  If you find a lump that you think isn't just the usual blocked duct, please do get it checked out and please do insist on an ultrasound.  My tumour can very easily be felt just by touching but cannot be seen on a mammogram at all.

I really will try and get on here more often - love to all x


----------



## magicpillow

Hi Syd - thanks for updating us.  Again I'm just so sorry that you've been dealt this hand, it's really so unfair.  Well done for taking such swift action and I'm so glad it hasn't gone anywhere beyond the lymph nodes and you have a plan.  Thinking of you; reading your post brought a tear to my eye.  Thanks for the advice too for breastfeeding ladies as I'm sure it will be invaluable.  

Good to hear from you Efi.  Sometimes you just know when the time isn't right and a break is needed.  You're right to focus on those things that make you happier.  Prior to this cycle I was starting to read about coming to terms with childlessness and really thought that was going to be our path (and it still might if things go wrong).  I got the point where I knew I couldn't keep going beyond this cycle and needed to start thinking about our plan b life more.  

Hope everyone else is ok.  I'm off sick from work today as I've had swollen glands, sore throat, headache, temperature etc.  Felt sooo guilty calling in sick as lots of people are on annual leave at the moment and I've had so much time off already recently with IVF and also having got a virus during my treatment cycle.  I'm on steroids at the moment which are suppressing my immune system so I'm wondering if that hasn't helped!


----------



## magicpillow

The bleeding is back again tonight.  This time it's like a proper period, bright red and a steady flow.  I'm so sick of seeing it - my heart sinks every time.  I only had a scan on Friday so feel like I can't have another one less than a week later.  Will just keep an eye on things and probably stay off tomorrow.


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hi 40’s Ivf fighters,

Kris76 I read your post and felt for you. I know that feeling, it is completely unfair and I am so sorry you are in this place. Having been there I know you will come through this but you do need to give yourself the space and freedom to cry and scream if you you want to. I promise you will be able to deal with this eventually, I felt like It was a bereavement in so many ways. Just take time that is all I can say and send lots of love. Not sure it helps, but it took me over a year from the last cycle to get my body and mind right as similar to you back to back cycles with the pressure of time in our heads and hearts. Lots of love

Syd -echoing everyone else, lots of love to you too and thanks for too n B

Efi- how was the holiday?

Odashwood - glad you had a good rest at the weekend, don’t work too hard though, still need to get that body and mind IVF ready! 

Magic pillow - what is the latest with the bleeding?

AFM all Ok here. Triggering tonight before collection on Thursday! Wish me luck xx


----------



## Syd72

Good luck Tiger!

Magic, are you taking aspirin? I had constant spotting through the first trimester, sometimes bright red and fairly heavy (although still spotting). Bleeding is very common with ivf pregnancies but I know that’s probably not much comfort. I remember every time I saw it just thinking “for God’s sake give me a break! Let me be relaxed just for a while!”!


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Awww Syd!
Thank you hon, that means a lot.  Sending you the biggest hug! xxx


----------



## magicpillow

Thanks Syd and Tiger.  Luckily it has eased off today.  I'm not on asprin; I had the blood tests for clotting factors etc and all was fine.  It's always so reassuring to hear that other people had similar experiences and that bleeding is common in IVF pregnancies.  I'm off work today and taking things easy. 

Exciting about triggering Tiger.  Good luck! xx


----------



## miamiamo

magicpillow - a good idea to stay at home, it's important to be comfortable x


----------



## Greyhoundgal

Just wanted to send a belated hug to Syd after reading your news   Sounds like you are being well looked after which is the best news.  Do keep us posted.  

Grey xx


----------



## Syd72

Thanks so much Grey. All going well still. I understand phase two of the chemo will be much nastier so enjoying not having any real side effects right now.

How are you and the twins?

X


----------



## miamiamo

Syd72 - I am also sending warm hugs, xx


----------



## pauli

Hi everyone, just a quick update from me. Our baby boy was born on 4 Oct, good birth weight of 4.075kg. We are so much in love and overcome with emotions. Sometimes I still do not believe he is here. He is doing amazingly well. Unfortunately my milk has not arrived yet, there is still a chance and I am working with a lactation Consultant. It breaks my heart to see him attaching to the breasts and only managing to get a few drops. But he took to the bottle ok (better than me!) and the advantage is that DH can help with feeding. So trying to accept the fact my body is not producing the milk, still upset about it. 

We used a DE to have him but I can honestly say that it did not even cross my mind when he finally arrived. All I wanted to see was that he was healthy. He is 100% ours 😍

@Syd, hope you are coping ok, thinking of you. Keeping my fingers crossed that you can overcome this 🤞🙏

Sorry for the lack of personals, wishing you all that you get your precious babies. Lots of baby dust xxx


----------



## magicpillow

Congratulations Pauli, that is wonderful news!  So happy to hear your baby boy is here safely.  That sounds tough re the breastfeeding but glad he's taken to a bottle and your hubby can help out. 

Hope everyone else is ok.  Next week I'll be 15 weeks pregnant which I can't believe.  Even though the 13 week scan was all fine, I still wonder each day whether the baby is still ok and alive etc.  I've been really unwell for weeks but not with sickness.  I seem to go from one cold and cough to another and at the moment I've got what feels like a viral infection with swollen glands, sore throat, no energy etc.  Just cannot get well. I'm slowly weaning off the steroids so I'm hoping that will help.  I worry that my weeks of coughing will have affected the baby.  Feel guilty about keep having time off work but not much I can do.


----------



## pauli

Thanks Magicpillow. Your worries and emotions are absolutely normal, I felt exactly the same. Once I started feeling the baby moving, things got better. Sorry to hear that you are fighting one cold after another. I only had one cold but the cough stayed for about 4 weeks before it cleared. Baby was fine. Don’t worry about taking time off work, you have worked plenty, focus on yourself now and try enjoying being pregnant as much as possible. I know it is easier said than done .... you can do it 👍🏻 If I can help with anything, do not hesitate to contact me directly, take care xx

Hello to everyone else, good luck on your journeys x


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Amazing news Pauli! 
Congrats 😃😃😃
It genuinely encourages me to keep going when one of us fab 40’s finally gets their baby!
I firmly believe my turn will come one day too! 😘💃🏽


----------



## iklefeet

Hi Ladies, 

Can  I join, I'm just preparing for a DE cycle in December,  transfer Dec 16th all being well. I have one son born in November last year after a DE cycle but sadly we had no sibling frosties so we've had to start again with a new doner after all my OE cycles failed and the donor for my son didn't want to try again.  I'm just starting to get excited and a little scared at the possibility of a new baby but I really think being older parents my little boy needs a sibling that he has a brother or sister when me and hubby are gone. 

I'm just doing a medicated mock cycle now because I'm having an endometrial biopsy on the 8th Nov to double check my lining is receptive then i start my actual protocol in the 29th November. 

Tiger, glad to see you are in this forum,  your inbox is full hon. 

Magicpillow, I remember how scary the early days were with my LO, I notice you mentioned steroids,  if you are weaning off prednisone that can cause swollen glands and aching joints like flu its a really strong drug which can make you feel pretty rough especially if you are already poorly so take lots of you time and rest up.

Paull congrats in the birth of your son,  there is no feeling quite like it is there,  wishing you all the best. 

Syd, I hope the treatment is still going well,  you must be getting ready for LOs first birthday soon, I seem to remember Theo and your LO were born about the same time.  Last year. 

To anyone else over 40 on this journey hugs and baby dust, don't give up on your dreams they do come true

Ikle xxx


----------



## miamiamo

@pauli - amazing news, huge congrats, and enjoy any single moment x


----------



## Tiger Smiles

Hey all,
You know these forums really are amazing. I love seeing the news of you guys being succesful. It still floors me as how inspired I get. Though as I mentioned in another group I think. I’m taking a break until next spring. 

-Pauli congrats again on your new bundle. what amazing news. How you doing with the milk now? 

-icklefeet - got everything crossed for December! Such good for thought. Your first baby this time last year & second on the way. And thanks for heads up on my inbox I’ll get deleting some messages! Xxx


----------



## Guest

Just to let other 40+ladies know, I am 44 and on my last 3 cycles of modified natural create. Had retrieval last week, 2 eggs but no fertilisation, so left with one frozen day 5 4bc. Will be told on Tuesday if it survives thaw. I am really not hopeful and so fed up of all this wish I had called it a day last jan but went on to have these 3 cycles, which has been very hard as cancelled 3 due to poor response and other personal reasons. Dreading Tuesday as just know it will be bad news but have to go through the motions anyone, I just want to know and move on.


----------



## Qpmz

It’s so tough Cath, sorry you didn’t get better news from your current cycle. Freezing techniques are very good at Create and there’s no reason your embryo won’t survive the thaw. I had a day 3 and a day 5 survive fine with them. (I seem to have implantation issues so no BFP for me). I think you will get to transfer and it’s just that horrible TWW you’ll have to endure. Fingers crossed, hope this is your time.


----------



## Syd72

Thanks so much Pauli and Mia. Pauli, how are you getting on?

Magic, are you feeling any better? I’m discovering that with motherhood comes a permanent feeling of guilt about anything and everything!

Ikle, lovely to see you here. Good luck for December! I would love another for exactly the same reasons as you but now with the cancer that’s not going to be possible  Please keep us posted x

Cath, thinking of you today.

Hi to everyone else x


----------



## miamiamo

> I'm discovering that with motherhood comes a permanent feeling of guilt about anything and everything!


I though it's only me who feel quilty all the time


----------



## snowdropwood

Hi - just gatecrashing the thread ! - have had 1 of 3 cycles of natural modified IVF on my own  -  I might stop and will look at double donation as there was 0 egg in first cycle - perhaps I should have looked at embryo donation initially  - I am just 43 and finding it all a complete rollercoaster  - any advice appreciated xx


----------



## snowdropwood

Hi - the above post doesn't really make any sense to me, perhaps that is just me  - I am aware of the stats and the likely failure however I am not aware of a perfect choice. thanks xx


----------



## Syd72

Hi Snowdropped, sorry, this thread is quite quiet these days.

It honestly depends on how important it is to you to have a child that has your genetics. For me it wasn’t at all important, having a healthy baby was my priority. I did one own egg round just before turning 45, got 10 eggs, 2 were put back and bfn. Obviously I was slightly older than you. I didn’t want to go through that again knowing it probably wouldn’t work so went straight to de.

My advice always is if you can afford it and you feel strongly about using your own eggs then try that again. The beauty of de is that there’s not so much age pressure. If you’re not worried about genetics and want the easier road, bearing in mind that de isn’t a magic solution and may not working the first time or even first few times, then go straight to de.

I hope that makes sense, best of luck x


----------



## ocdm19

Hi, Ladies, I have been reading this post for a few days now. It is really helpful to relate! Thank you for creating the post. I am 39, had 3 round of ISCI last year and 2 transfers, both BFN. There has been sperm issues, low mobility, high diformation, and high DNA fragmentation. I wonder at what stage should I consider donor sperm and donor egg? And also if I have just done a FET last month, any of you had gone to a fresh cycle immediately? My Dr. think it is fine to start a fresh cycle immediately. Many many thanks!


----------



## Delectable_Sunshine

Have you considered IMSI?


----------



## TBW342

Hi everyone, hope I’m alright to join this thread. I’m very confused and wondered if any of you ladies could help. 

I was due to start my last own egg cycle in July but unfortunately for the first time really my cycle seems really messed up. I had a peak reading on a digital ovulation test on day 19 which is about normal for me so was just waiting on AF arrive. My cycles are between 29 -36 days. I had a scan at my clinic to see if I would be okay to start with the next cycle and I had five follicles so they were happy for me to begin when AF arrived. One follicle was 15 and they said no signs of ovulation which I guessed as I had no temperature rise or EWCM round peak reading time. So then I decided to keep testing and wondered if I could still ovulate with this follicle and on day 37 got another peak reading,  this time accompanied by EWCM so thought okay this is late ovulation. My temperatures have risen a bit too and  App has me as 4dpo. Anyway last night I had watery cm and took another ovulation test and it was peak again- a week after the last peak reading! So now totally confused and have no idea when AF will start. Could this follicle still be trying to ovulate after all this time or has one of the other follicles now grown and is the right size because the cycle is so long? I’m now on CD 45. 

Any help would be much appreciated.


----------



## moore77

Hi TBW342 I see you’ve posted on other pages I think regards to your cycle I think yes people can ovulate late for sure  I’ve had late cycles which is rare for me ( happened when I had a major diet change ) but as I understand it obviously it’s a hormone issue if it’s taken so long for the egg to get the energy to grow to size and ovulate. It is of course worth checking a pregnancy test too as ovulation tests can give positives for pregnancy. Good luck it’s horrible when you want to get on and have a plan in mind and something changes


----------



## TBW342

Moore 77 thank you for your reply. Yes I wasn't sure where the best place to post was really. I have done pregnancy tests but no luck there. I didn't think they would be positive based on the scan but just did it to rule it out. I'm guessing it's hormone related due to age but I have wondered if a few other things have come in to play. I was taking some traditional Chinese medicine from my acupuncturist along with a cocktail of other supplements to prepare myself with this cycle. (including melatonin for egg quality and vitex). She said it was fine to carry on taking the supplements with the Chinese herbs. As well as that I did intermittent fasting which I have read is good for fertility and lost a stone so maybe it as one of those things, combined with my aging ovaries / hormones!  

Thanks again for your reply and good luck with your journey


----------



## moore77

Interesting see for me similar story I wanted to loose some weight , improve eggs health etc . I did a keto diet for 6 weeks and my cycles /ovulation massively changed keto is particular good for pcos but not good long term as it’s quite a reduction in calories and can for some halt periods. My cycles were always 23/24 days then I became 30/35 days on next two cycles and ovulation was like day 19/23 ( I have only 11 day lutheal phase so short really).
It’s hard doing tests when that cycle is late , plays havoc on your mental state but you have to know.
I did acupuncture prior to ivf mainly for inflammation as I have immune issues , my acupuncturist had my on zita west DNA repair supplements to help egg and sperm quality. I’ve not heard of what you’ve been taking but I do believe in acupuncture x hope you get to start your cycle soon


----------



## Greyhoundgal

TBW342 said:


> Moore 77 thank you for your reply. Yes I wasn't sure where the best place to post was really. I have done pregnancy tests but no luck there. I didn't think they would be positive based on the scan but just did it to rule it out. I'm guessing it's hormone related due to age but I have wondered if a few other things have come in to play. I was taking some traditional Chinese medicine from my acupuncturist along with a cocktail of other supplements to prepare myself with this cycle. (including melatonin for egg quality and vitex). She said it was fine to carry on taking the supplements with the Chinese herbs. As well as that I did intermittent fasting which I have read is good for fertility and lost a stone so maybe it as one of those things, combined with my aging ovaries / hormones!
> 
> Thanks again for your reply and good luck with your journey


]
Just be careful with intermittent fasting because it isn't a one size fits all and in some women it has been found to mess about with hormones.....but losing the weight will be helpful for sure.

It isn't uncommon to ovulate late as you get older though I don't think 45 is SO old ;-) good luck with getting going on your cycle 

Grey xx


----------

