# Recurrent MC, implantation failure, unexplained infertility-tests immune issues



## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi ladies,

(If you read more then one board you may see I repeated my post elsewhere)Just went to a new GYN ( support ) in Paris. She is the real thing! She has been doing infertility treatment for 20+ years. Wish I had met a few years ago. My clinic in Greece put me in touch with her as my previous GYN was good enough to write up what I needed but was not so familiar with infertility treatment and overlooked my PCOS. Dr. S. Alvarez may prove to be good or bad-- she certainly will have her own opinion and in general in France they believe that it is not good for a woman my age ( 45 ) to have children. That is a stigma here for sure. But at least I feel she knows what she is doing.

Any way I went back to the "famous" laboratoire ( Lab D'Eylau here and spoke to the Director on her advise. I showed him info I gathered online about all the testing required for immune issues plus the tests required for my clinic. He wrote me up 48 !!! tests to do. I went there asking for 2: NK natural killer cells and APA. But at least now I will have a complete new "dossier" that should last me into next year if needed.. The head of the lab felt I should redo the whole thing. Well why not!!! With my insurance it should cost out of pocket 250 euros- fingers crossed ( I asked for anyone that may need testing; non assured cost about 800 euros).

The results will be back in 1-2 weeks. I will return for the cervical exams but they will not cost much and I still have slight AF, likely from the bcp.

I am not sure anything will turn up... but at least I feel like I am looking into everything possible. I do not have so many chances left. NOw that I am using donors some of the immune tests ( antibodies to DP sperm) will not apply.

*****I urge anyone that has had repeated miscarriage and I suppose a chemical PG would be the same, or fever and pain, rashes, etc after ET, or just continuing unexplained fertility to read up on DR Beers website. The info is free and if needed he also will look into your case individually.

Have a look here http://repro-med.net/info/cat.php

I printed the whole thing out and read it several times. He also has published a book that I would like to get my hands on!
*****The main point I got is that recurrent pregnancy loss can activate other immune problems. 22% of recurrent PG loss have APA (antiphospholipid antibodies. The incidence of this increases 15% with each PH loss.

I just want to say that anyone that needs my help to have all or some of these tests done in Paris I would be more then happy to give you a hand. I know they would cost a fortune in London even if you could get them done.
That said, it also depends on your clinic, whether they believe in immune issues or not. Invimed ( DR Rok.) wrote me back and said they used to. ANd they did tons of tests and then retreated from it. Obviously the first thing is to get optimum embryo quality. But many time I have read of fertility ladies having symptoms and results that make me think that there is something to all of this. If you think it might be your case then I urge you to read up on it and check it out.

ALso in light of some ladies having trouble getting their mammograms done iin UK. You can come here and get one without an ordance. Will cost 150 euros in Paris. Xray and Ultrasound and results written up. You take everything with you same day. Just need to make an appointment. IF any one needs help just ask. There are many many labs and radiology clinics here and you do not have to have a DR letter to have most things done as long as you pay.

Of course the train/ plane and side shopping trips may get expensive!!!!!

All the best
Bonnie


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## Lara200 (Aug 26, 2006)

Hi Bonnie
Thanks for posting the info.  These are exactly the sort of issues I am having to grapple with at the moment.  I've had one failed IVF but because of my age, as I don't have many chances left, I asked my con for other tests he could do before my next cycle.  He suggested various blood tests to look at immune and blood clotting issues.  My tests are:
1. Tumour Necrosis Factor
2. Anti Thyroid A6
3. ANF; and
4. Thrombophilia Screen
Are these tests similar to those you were recommended.  I read the info on the site you posted and I see some of these tests are referred to.  I understand the full thromobphilia screen covers quite a few things as well.  I am also going to have a laparoscopy to see if I have any endo.  Like you I am very concerned to get as much as I can checked before my next cycle.  I am presently waiting for the results of the blood tests and am going for the lap in the next week or so.  Any info you can give would be appreciated and the best of luck with your tests.

Lara


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## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

yes those were included.  Basically they did all the ones listed on the website plus all the normal doosier that needs to be done for IVF ( mine were 6 months old)
SOmone else pointed out that DR Beer has passed on earlier this year but his staff maintains his same work.  Also that there is a lot of info about this on the immune thread... I think that we get stuck on certian threads and forget how much else there is on this board.
Good luck to you to.  Let me know how yours turn out and what they proscibe if anything as treatment.
b123


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## RSMUM (Sep 3, 2003)

Bonny - Thanks for posting this - I never go on this thread - as you said - you get stuck on one and there is SO much on these boards.

I just wanted to say that I'd orginally had a ton of these tests done and tested borderline postive on one of them, so they prescribed Heparin and short-low-dose Heparin, injectable Progesterone as well as a few other bits and bobs ( this was an IVF with my own eggs ).

I don't know if that made a difference but I did concieve and my DD is a happy 5 yr old now. 

I followed a very similar regime at ARGC when I came back to live in the U.K. - added Viagra as my lining was not good at all.  I concieved with one embie and a poor lining thickness  ( and even had one dose of IVIG ) but sadly there was nothing there at the scan - they said it was a blighted ovum - I put it down to bad 40 yr old eggs. 

Since then I have used donor egg with no success  - I have stuck to baby Asprin and Heparin and put my faith in DE but have slowly re-introduced the orignial meds even if the clinic abroad are not keen ( my clinic in the U.K. support this protocol ).

I did have some of the basic immune tests done but they came back negative and I just couldn't afford to go down the complete immune testing route.

I'm now trying again - this time adding steroids to the mix. 

I hope my story is of some use to someone out there, I guess what I'm trying to say is, for me, I think that I may have some immune issues ( Dr. Beer thought it very likely for the reasons you gave in your post ) but as I'm nervous of the IVIG and other severe treatments, can't afford them anyway  .. I've come the conclusion that it's best for me to hedge my bets and hope that "milder" treatments like baby aspirin, Heparin etc. might one day do the trick ( please let it be one day this month when I am in Marbella !!hehe!  )

Sorry for rambling on.. hope this adds to the discussion somewhat..in a positive way I hope! 

Also wanted to thank you so much for your offer of help in Paris - that is soo sweet of you, you must be a very special person.

All the best of luck to you all  

Rsmum XXX


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## Lara200 (Aug 26, 2006)

RSMum - thanks for your post.  It is so helpful to hear from others how these things work out.  Lots of luck in Marbella.     I hope it all works out for you there.

Bonny - I'm still waiting for the results of my blood tests.  My GP very kindly agreed to let me get them done at my local hospital.  That saved me a fortune but the hospital got them wrong.  The tests aren't the types they normally do and so they didn't take enough blood, did the wrong tests and goodness knows what else.  Anyway, I've been 3 times now to get the tests done, I feel like a pincushion and I hope they finally know what they are doing.  Once I have those results I will go back to the clinic to hopefully start the next cycle.  I've also had a lap and dye recently and luckily that was OK.  If anything comes of my blood tests I'll let you know what the clinic say.  Good luck to you and let me know how you are getting on.

Lara


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## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi.  me too.. still waiting.  I am almost positive they did not do one of the two orignal tests I went for ( APA) and lots of ones I did not need or was not the right day.  SO all said it was overkill.  SO far nothing shows wrong.  But still waiting for the cervical stuff, NK, and genetic stuff to come back.  

RS MUM.. interesting that you managed to get PG with those obstacles.  I know my clinic in Chania does the IVIg injection procedure. Not sure how much it costs but surely less then in  UK.. You could always speak to them about it.  You will be in Marbella then soon?  that is for DE right?


Let't keep in touch
Bonnie


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## RSMUM (Sep 3, 2003)

Yes - off in a few weeks - for DE yes..waiting for AF now -due today but of course..sigh!


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## Lara200 (Aug 26, 2006)

Hi Bonnie and RSMUM

Just thought I would let you know how my blood tests turned out.  I went so many times for the tests and although the hospital  kept getting it wrong, I guess they finally worked it out and did the right tests.  Thankfully all the tests were fine. Hooray!  My FSH levels are even down to 5.3 which I think is great.  Last time I had my tx it was 8.3.  The only thing is now I don't know if the clinic has a donor for me.  I am way down on the waiting list and if there is no donor then the wonderfully low FSH level will be wasted!  Apparently I will find out in about 2 weeks if they have anything for me.  Fingers crossed.  I can't wait to start the tx again.

I hope all is well with you both.  Do keep me posted.

Lara


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## three_stars (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi,  I can not be sure that they tested what and when they should being it is in France and names sometimes different.  BUt considering how many exams they did I think it had to be covered... nothing should up so I guess I shoule be glad.  ( well nothing serious . just yeast infection.  Gives me mixed feelings as I wonder where the problem is.  Guess it could have been the high prolactin and now can only wonder why if this is such a problem, why was I not retested for it?  Always seems we look back and learn in this process. 
Lara I thought you are using your own eggs as you mention having a low FSH... but then said you are waiting for a donor.  IS that for a sperm donor?  Where are you going( clinic_) and what tx? Protocol?  I am sorry if you told this and I forgot.Bonnie


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## Lara200 (Aug 26, 2006)

Hi Bonnie

Just saw your message.  I haven't been on the site for a few days.  It can all get a bit obsessive but I can't stay away for too long!
I am using my own eggs for my tx but with donor sperm.  That's where the problems come in these days as there is such a shortage.  The clinics are also using the donor shortage as an excuse to charge more money to go on waiting lists and take part in all sorts of schemes to reserve sperm.  I am with the Bridge Centre, a clinic in London and I am far from impressed with how they have dealt with me.  It is next to impossible to find out what the situation is.
I am going to see my consultant tomorrow to discuss my next tx and protocol. He told me last time that he would put me on a higher dosage of Menopur to try to encourage more eggs this time.  That is what I expect he will probably say and prescribe tomorrow but we will see.  However, without a donor it is all a waste of time.  I was told by the Bridge they may have a donor for me but they won't know for another week or so.  Maybe I will find out something more definite tomorrow but I doubt it!  I so much want to start my tx and hope they have positive news for me tomorrow.  Will post tomorrow once I have been to the clinic.
All the best.

Lara


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