# Fertility & Gynaecology Acadamy (Amin Gorgy) : Part 10



## Skybreeze

*New Home Ladies
    *​


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## Saffa77

it was 13 days past 3 day transfer and it was above 1000 been for more bloods today and lets hope they doubling  

Sx


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## ells

We must talk a lot   .  Bookmarking our new home.

Hope everyone is okay.

Ells


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## Bling1975

Dawn, I am so sorry that it didn't work out. 

I hope that I too will be strong enough to walk a way if the time comes. And I hope you get the support you need to get trough this and move on in whatever way you want to go from this.


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## Ourturn

Ells - sending your follies growing vibes      

Dawn - the flushes could be the porgesterone?

AFM - had what felt like mild AF pains when I woke up   

Anna x


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## Cozy

Just bookmarking.... not much to say... just like seeing what everyones up to....


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## Diane72

How do you bookmark something?

Diane


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## Cozy

You've just done it  

Cozy


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## agate

Diane72 said:


> How do you bookmark something?
> 
> Diane


or you can click on 'notify' then you get an email every time there is a new post on that particular thread that you can just click to open.

Dawn: i hope the hot flushes are a pg sign.


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## mag108

Hello

Dawn: I am so sorry hun. You have truly been through so so much. Sending you a huge hug. Take care of yourself. 

Ells: Thanks your are very kind and helpful. I think your suggestion for a sick note is a great one. thks

Sobroody: hope you are doing ok

Agate: Still managing to keep your feet up?

Cozy: Hope your bump is doing well!

Lalaby: hope you are good.

Saffa: Hope you are getting lots of rest

Pinpin: hope your bump is doing well

hello all you lovely ladies.
Had a great massage today and feel less stressed, it is the weekend!XXX


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## Peanuts

Hi girls  

Dawn - so sorry to hear you news hun, sending you and DH big hugs    Hope you're taking care of each other.

Mag - good luck with the sick note, haven't had to do that yet but might be heading down that route for next time.  Massage sounds lovley - hope your still enjoying the stress relief  

Ells - sending you a wee follie dance - grow follies grow      

Saffa - hopw you're taking it easy.  Your figures sound great  

Toffee - what a nightmare of a ET, but hoping that your embies loved the excitment and are snuggling on for the long haul!      Good luck for 2ww  

Big hugs to everyone - Diane, Cozy, Agate, Berry, Niccad, Lalaby, Sobroody, Bling, SarahH, Deegirl, Shellie, Missyminx, Zeka, Blue Primrose, Nix, Louise, Thumbelina   and anyone else I've missed.

Came back from LIT to be offered a new job!!  Hoping this is the start of a good year for me! 
Dxx


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## Louiseb26

D - You have a good memory to remember everyones names.Well done on the new job...i really think this year is going to be a good one to.

Mag - On the sick note front.Cant you ask your GP to put down you have a bad back...mine did.Bet the massage was lovely and did the job.

I'm still stressing a bit on the anti histamines front...i took one this week and forgot i took one last week to...I'm such a bloody   i really hope this has not mucked up my LIT.

Hope everyone has a lovely weekend.

Lou xx


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## Diane72

Peanuts,

Just popped on and saw your news-CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

      

Now I reckon you're on a roll of luck, more good thing to come I hope!!!


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## ells

Yey Peanuts, congrats on the job hun you must be really pleased.  This is definitely your lucky year   .
Thanks for my follie dance   .

Ells


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## Zeka

Dawn, sending you a big hug hun. 

Peanuts, fab news on the job front!

Ladies, just read from the argc cyclers that Ali's at Shadwell has just doubled his prices for fostimon. Do hope its a temp measure and other pharamacies don't follow suit!!!

Zeka x


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## Saffa77

Ladies

I dont remember what Dr G said but does one take Clexane until about 31 Weeks?  Prednisolne until about 12 weeks?  and what about Gestone?  and Intralipids?

Thanks ladies.

Hope you all well. 

I had my intralipid drip yesterday and Dr G wants me to have another one in 2 weeks time and then do a NK retest on the 22 March.
Sx


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## Newday

well ladies this last go is negative. I am so so disappointed I cant't describe how I feel.

It seems to be that with each subsequent IVF things have got shorter and shorter. I got pg died 9 weeks then I was getting pg and loosing 2 - 3 weks after test then 1 week and now I don't even get a positive before test date. This is now with immunes my body just doesn't want to be pregnant and so it's time to call it a day
Love dawn


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## Saffa77

Dawn     so sorry i can imagine how you must be feeling.  Look after yourself and try not be too hard on yourself am thinking of you.  Was OTD today?

Sx


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## Newday

well it's 12 days today so yes I guess so
Dawn


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## ells

Dawn     I do hope it changes for you hunni, you still have 2 more days     .   

Ells


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## Pinpin

Dawn - just wanted to say i'm thinking of you and hope the result can still turn positive - 12 dpt there is still hope it could be positive and AF isn't here yet. I am     this is just one of those late BFPs  

Saffa - congratulations on your BFP! I hope you can try and relax a little and slow down! Yes clexane is until 31 weeks, pred until 12, Gestone until 12, Intralipid/ivig until 31 weeks and frequency will depend on the results you get at each retest of Nks.

Pinpin x


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## FJ

Dawn   
I would be very grateful if you could answer a question for me. We are two weeks into a medicated FET cycle and I wanted to check do I use the Progesterone pessaries from the hospital as well as the Gestone injections prescribed by Dr G? Seems like a bit of overload if I do both.
Thanks
FJ


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## Newday

Not sure I only use pessaries myself. Never had gestone 
Dawn


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## Diane72

FJ,

If Dr. G has only prescribed gestone then then I would stick with what he prescribed (unless he said to have both the gestone and pessaries based on low progesterone in your results). I went onto gestone when my blood tests showed that my progesterone levels were not high enough on pessaries and I always have had better levels on it.

Diane x


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## Saffa77

Regarding gestone had myjab today at nurse and the syringe got stuck?? Changed syringes and was really hard to inject me had to call a doc haven't done gestone myself yet... That's why I go to nurse has this happened to any of you? Almost looked like the gestone caused a reaction with the rubber in the syringe?!


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## Ourturn

Dawn - my clinic always make you test 14 days post transfer regardless of the age of the embryos. Are you going to hold out another day and test before stopping the drugs?    

Saffa - a nurse taught my dh to inject me and touch wood no problems. Had the gestone been warmed up before it was drawn up? 

FJ - I have gestone am and a pessary pm but that's because Mr G prescribed that for me. I would go with what he has prescribed for you.

Hi Agate, Pinpin, Diane, Ells, Zeka, Louise, Mag, Peanut, Cozy, Ells and anyone I've missed. 

AFM, 2 more sleeps until testing (albeit 2 days before otd). Boobs aren't sore, but are veiney, felt sicky this morning and had the worst wind I've ever experienced in my life...dh moved into the spare room  . Is this the gestone? Touch wood had no more af pains and no spotting (unlike 1st ivf cycle). My sinusitis is much better but I have just started getting a sore throat. Really hope this isn't an immune reaction? 

Anna x


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## Newday

Do you think it is worth it? I've had no spotting blood or anything sharp pain today in left side but thats it
dawn


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## Saffa77

ladies

Sobroody - yes the gestone had been warmed up previously.  It was just bizarre hope it dosent happen again tomorrow.  I thought maybe there was a trick on how to do it?!  LOL  re:  the wind my is also so bad just before BFP and after sounds like a good sign!!!

Bet you cant wait to test....!


Newday - you never know things may change test again on OTD.

Sx


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## ratsy

Hi girls 

Can i ask a question i saw sobroody post i suffer with rhinitus and it causes sinus infections would i still be able to have humira ive got high unk cells so think i will be having it 

Thanks R x


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## Louiseb26

Dawn - I have always tested on day 14.Just to let you know i tested on day 12,13,14 all neg...went on to have a blood test which i new would be neg...it turned out to be positive.I would keep taking the meds lovely.

Anna - Cant believe you test in 2 days...that has flown by.

Lou xx


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## Newday

Lou was it blast transfer?
dawn


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## Louiseb26

Dawn it was blast.I thought it was all over.I was very shocked when the blood test came back.Maybe keep taking the meds till you know for sure.My heart goes out to you...its a bloody hard road  

Lou xx


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## Ourturn

Dawn - definately stay on meds until OTD. Agate was saying that hcg is slower to rise in ivf pregnancies....

Agate - do you know why that is?

Ratsy - I had sinusitis when I was due to take humira and Mr G told me to go ahead and take it. 

Lou - I shouldn't really be testing until Wednesday, but at 12 days post 2 day transfer I figure its a sensible time to test with a first response. 

Saffa - do so hope the wind ( ) is a good sign! 

Anna x


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## Newday

they gave me OTD of last Thursday which was 10 days post transfer it was supposed to be blood. But my clinic here said that was too early and even if positive it would be very low so I decided to wait until day 14 and see what HPT said. I can't get there until Tuesday for bloods anyway day 15.
Lou just out of interest what was you blood level when you had it done?
dawn


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## lalaby123

newday, sobroody and anyone else on their 2ww.....please please don't torture yourself by testing early as the results are inconclusive and all they do is stress you out, I strongly recommend you either do BLOOD test on the day Dr G has suggested which is usually when the embryo is 14 days old ie 14 dp EC or you do HPT 18 dp EC anything earlier can give you a false positive (incase there is still hcg from a shot in your blood) or a false negative....i am praying for both of you        and as AF hasn't shown up for either it is looking good so far

pinpin - how are you?


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## deegirl

bookmarking!   and


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## Bling1975

Hi girls!

I'm totally stressing out trying to plan my treatments in order to have a go before the summer when my IVF clinic close for 6 weeks. But I have found a lab willing to take my TB test on Wednesday so that's one down, and a hundred to go on this tricky journey.

I'm supposed to do 2xHumira and 2xLIT. Can I do them at the same time, or do I have to do the Humira first?


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## Cozy

Bling,

what Dr T told me to do was have my 1st LIT, then 1 week later have my 1st Humira and 2 weeks later have my 2nd Humira.

Dr G told me to take it in different way, but I went with Dr T's way, it sounded more logical to me.

Has Dr G told you when to take it?

Cozy


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## Pinpin

Morning girls,

Anna - I'm liking the sound of your symptoms a lot   I never did mention the terrible winds as wasn't sure it was pregnancy related but I did have them    I am keeping everything crossed for you 

Dawn - No AF is a good sign and definitely please keep taking all the meds as you may well get a surprise BFP doing bloods on Tuesday    

Bling - I think Dr T recommends to leave a gap between the humira shots and the LIT but not sure how long - I hope someone will be along shortly to give you more info on that. Just saw that Cozy has answered that for you whilst i was typing my very long post !   Good luck with the Tx

Omni - Congratulations on the arrival of your baby girl !!!!   

Lalaby - I am good thank you for asking   I hope you are well too ?  I had my NHS 21 weeks scan last wednesday which showed that the baby is growing nicely and all looked normal. I   it continues. I was a size 8 when I started the Tx but now I look like I have swallowed a watermelon   so had to do some clothes shopping too   I can feel the baby kicking quite a lot now which is lovely.
I had my latest ivig with Dr G a week ago and retesting NKs on Monday and   for results to be all within range so we can space the next one one month from the latest.

Ells - How are you feeling? I hope the stimms are going well and you are loading up on proteins and water. I   for a good crop of juicy follies for you   I hope the crohns is under control. I had a small flare up of UC mid Jan so had to go back on the 30mg of prednisolone but now weaning off again and down to 15mg and   it all stays under control

Cozy - How are you feeling? I see you are having your nuchal scan tomorrow, good luck with that - it will be lovely to see your baby again  

Peanuts - congrats on getting a new job !  

Mag - on the sick note front I too got signed off during the Tx cycle for about 3-4 weeks in october and GP put "Operative Procedure" as a reason. I didn't want our HR department to know about our IVF but I told the truth to my boss as he is wonderful and very understanding and can keep a secret. I hope this cycle will be the one for you   

Diane - I am so glad that they have finally found the reason for your losses and cross that this was not picked before in the UK   but t least now you have a diagnosis and an antibiotic treatment your next go won't be in vain. You must feel relieved at last  

FJ - Dr G had only prescribed the gestone to me as my NHS clinic had already prescribed me with some cyclogest which he told me to take as well. Maybe check with him that he meant to only prescribe gestone? But like the other girls have said this will be based on your own results.

Louise - I saw your post on the LIT thread - try not to read too much in the reaction you get from LIT as it really doesn;t mean much at all. I got almost no reaction at all and my levels rose from 1 to 76.5. Good luck with the retest next week  

Agate - how are you doing?  

Niccad - How are you? I'm glad you have made your decision on the clinic, it's never easy. When will your monitoring cycle start?    

Saffa - sorry to hear you had problems wit the gestone injection yesterday   My DH did mine, he was taught how to do them by our GP and we've never this issue you had yesterday.

Cath - how are you doing ?  

I hope I have not forgotten anyone!

Pinpin xx


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## Pinpin

Yes I have just realised I forgot Toffee girl! 
Congratulations on being PUPO!   I am sorry that you had to go through such trauma during ET but they have been transferred safely Dr G would never rush such a crucial part even if there is an actual fire as it only takes a few seconds to complete.
I hope you have your feet up  

Also Berry how are you?  

Pinpin x


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## Ourturn

I could hold out no longer. I did a test this am, 11 dp collection of a day2 transfer and got a very faint positive on a fr test. I know its not a false positive as I did a test a few days ago to check the trigger shot had left my system.  I   this one makes it. Will call Mr G in the morning to sort out a drip with [email protected] and call my clinic. They don't normally do hcg blood tests, but because of my history they may well do. 

Prior to ec I had IL, then IVIG. Will he want me to do IL next? My results show I respond better IL than IVIG though neither get my numbers to 15%. My lad retests results had not arrived Friday...hopefully they will be in on Monday.

Anna x


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## Newday

Sobroody congratulations looks like it's a BFP for you then
dawn


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## Ourturn

thanks Dawn. 
Are you sorting out a blood test?


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## Saffa77

Sobroody yay!!!!! Fantastic news must of been that wind! Lol yes dr g wanted me to have a intralipids on Friday and having another one in two weeks.


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## Diane72

Sobroody,

That is truly wonderful news!!!! I'm so pleased for you!!
       

I know its only the first hurdle, but you've got through that first step.

Hugs to everyone else  

Diane x


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## lalaby123

Sobroody wonderful news congratulations I am so so happy for you I hav to say I had a feeling you wer pregnant from your sypmtoms but didn't want to raise your hopes I got ivig on bfp but he may do IL for u he will be very pleased two bfps in a space of a week woohoo 

Peanuts congrats on new job well done 

Cozy good luck with nuchal scan tomorrow 

Pinpin I'm glad your anomaly scan was good and u feel baby kicking that must be lovely my scan is next week I can't wait to see babies again I don't feel any movement yet hoping will start soon 

Saffa hope your resting up 

Hi to all XXXXXXX


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## Newday

Can I ask a quick question I had two intralipids for this txc and this is a big IF.
IF i had txc again next month would I get away with 1 intarlipid? they stop in the system for 3 months don't they?
dawn


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## Diane72

Dawn,

The best thing to do would be re-test your NKs when you are ready and take it from there.

Diane x


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## Bling1975

Cozy, what did Dr G recommend? I understood it as Humira first LIT later but didn't really get any details. I was so stressed by the phone call and that I would understand everything that I forgot to ask about some details.


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## ratsy

SOBROODY CONGRATULATIONS     

R x


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## Louiseb26

Anna - OMG Congratulations lovely      I new this was going to be a good year.

Dawn - My level was 32 at day 14,the next day it was 71.I thought it would of showed up on the HPT...the nurse told me it has to be 40 and above to show up.I'm   for you Dawn.

Pipin - I'm glad to see you and the bubba are doing OK.Look after your lovely.

Cozy - Good luck at the scan...bet you cant wait to see your little one.Are you going to find out what sex the baby is? or just wait for the  

Agate - How are you? hope your doing OK...have noticed you have not been on much.

Big   to all you lovely ladies

Lou xx


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## Ourturn

Cozy - good luck for your scan    . They don't do nuchal scanning in Shropshire..only blood tests so if we get that far we will go privately for it!  

Agate - hope you are ok too. 

Dawn - not sure how long IL lasts, will be interested in what Mr G says. 

Pinpin - gad the scan went well...bet you look great   

Lalaby - is you're bump quite big now seeing as you are carrying twinnies? Did you find you started showing quite early?

Bling I took my humira 2 weeks apart and had my lit 2 weeks after my 2nd humira...but I don't think it matters....I THINK there is no interaction between LIT & humira but do check with Mr G. Why don't you drop him an e-mail? 

Thanks for all of your lovely messages. Just   the line is stronger in the am. Have been feeling sickey on and off all day, so taking that as a good sign. 
Off to dinner with friends. They know we're going through ivf & immune tx but not timescale. Will tell a little white lie and say otd is not for 2 weeks and we won't seeing them for another 3-4 weeks after that. Don't feel comfortable telling anyone this early (other than you lot & my best friend) as I don't want to jinx it. 

Anna x


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## ratsy

hi girls 

Are any of you at the clinic on the 8th march my appointment at 10 

R xx


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## Chicky Licky

Dawn - just wanted to say how sorry I am that it's not worked for you this time. I know what a tough journey it's been for you. Sending you big   xxxx


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## Cozy

Hello ladies  

Sobroody   on your , I hope it all goes well for you. I dont think they do Nuchal scans anywhere on the NHS (though I could be wrong). We are having it done privately. The Dr I am under at the NHS hopsital said it was more accurate than the tests they do on the NHS, if you have the blood tests done as well, which I have. I've had most of my scans privately and they are far far better than the NHS ones if you go to the right place, its been money well spent to see my little one every 2 weeks.

Louise, yes we are going to find out the sex.... hopefully tomorrow. My sonographer says you cant tell at 12 wks but you can at 13... I'm not so sure it will be acurate, but we'll see what happens. I think I'm having a girl

Bling, I cant remember what Dr G told me to be honest, but having spoken to Dr T who is an immunologist, his reasons for doing it his way seemed plausible. You have to go with whatever way you think is right for you, but I would speak to Dr G about it.

Saffa, I hope you are taking it easy and not stressing too much?

Hi to everyone else, hope you all doing well and taking care of yourselves

Cozy


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## Saffa77

Ladies

cozy I guess it is worth it paying for scans!
I am ok just worried as not feeling pregnant if you know what I mean ... Just hope all is ok!


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## ells

Evening ladies,


Whey hey Sobroody         , massive massive congtrats sweetie.  I bet you are on    hope the blood tests shows some really really good number hunni.

Pinpin, hi hunni, wow I cant believe you are over half way through.  I bet you cant wait until your next scan.

Lalaby, not long until your next scan, i bet you cant wait and it must be so exciting.

Cozy, glad you are feeling good, it must be such a comfort to have those scans.

Cath hun, how are you doing?

TB how are you feeling sweetie, I hope that you have been able to relax and take it easy   .

Dawn hunni, I really hope that you get a really good surprise on your blood test hunni.  With the LIT Dr G told us it would be determined by blood tests, it should stay in your system to keep your Nk cells at bay for unto 3 months but might need a booster.  Good luck hunni. thinking of you.    

Agate, hun how are you doing?

Lou, I hope you are okay hunni?

Minyminx, hope you are well hun.

Berry how are you doing?

Bling, drop an email to Dr G hun he should reply.  

Saffa hope you are still enjoying your positive result.

Hi to everyone else , hope you are all well.

Well off to Dr G tomorrow for my first IVIg   .  Will be in at 12'oclock, anyone going to be there tomorrow?  Well follies seem to be growing can really feel them, first scan is wednesday so I should have an idea as to whats happening in there.  

Hope everyone has a lovely evening, congrats again Sobroody really pleased for you hunni.

Ells


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## Louiseb26

Ells - Good luck with the IVIg...make sure you take a book or two.How long are the drips...does it depend?
Is it true that Dr G likes you to have the first one with him?

Lou xx


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## Peanuts

Hi girls

Thanks for all the lovely messages about my job - just hoping I can live up to the chat I gave them at the interview!    Looks like I'll have started about a week before I start stimms, so will be taking a couple of weeks off on leave to cover ops and 2ww.  luckily I'll be working for my old boss who knows about txt, so should make it a bit easier on me.

Sobroody - congrats on your BFP .  Keeping fingers and toes crossed that your line is stronger tomorrow and HCG tests come back with some lovely numbers     

Dawn - how you doing hun, hoping that your still taking the meds and you'll have some good news from your blood tests      

Lalaby - wow, 20 week scan seems ot have some round really quickly - but not for you I'm sure   Good luck  

Louise - looks like I managed to forget you! Sorry hun    I think DrG does like you to have the first one with him, but it doesn't suit everyone - I'll be having my first with [email protected], sounds much easier in your own living room with the telly on!

Ells - hope your follies are growing nicley, good luck for IVIG    

Big hugs to everyone - Diane, Cozy, Agate, Berry, Niccad, Bling, SarahH, Deegirl, Shellie, Missyminx, Zeka, Blue Primrose, Nix, Louise, Thumbelina, ratsy, Pinpin and anyone I've forgotten  
Take care
Dx


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## ells

Thanks Peanuts   .  The job sounds fab hun even better that its your old boss - no awkward question and answer sessions.  

Lou thanks hun,   .  Dr G likes you to have your first IVIg with him if you can as he likes to make sure you dont have any funny reactions too it.  He was quite happy for me to book IL's with [email protected],  I have the first one booked on Wednesday.  I'm not sure what determines how long the drip runs for but I am sure someone else will be along to tell us   /

Ells


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## Peanuts

Hiya

Forgot to ask - can someone please PM me with the [email protected] details.  I need to sort out first Intralipids for the end of March.  Can you order Gestone from them as well, or best to just go to a local chemist - Boots?

Thank you!
Dxx


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## Saffa77

Hi all

The Intralipids drip runs for about 2 hours with [email protected]

Sx


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## Bling1975

I have mailed Dr G with my questions about the Humira and LIT. 

Does Dr T in Athens have a web page?


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## Ourturn

Peanuts - forgot to say congrats re the new job!   Sounds like an internal promotion and that you will have no problem with tx. Number for [email protected] is 08003285323 ask for Jade.

Dawn - hope a blood test brings better news  

Bling - don't think Dr T has a website. 

Lou - I had my 1st ivig and IL drips with [email protected] as they were both on scan days up in Shropshire so getting to London in time would have been impossible. The nurse did advise me to take shed loads of piriton prior to the drip and fro 24 hours after along with paracetamol. I did not have a bad reaction.

Agate - really hope you are ok  

Saffa - try not to stress...when I was pregnant with a hcg of over 20,000 I had very few symptoms. 

Ells - thanks, but my clinic may refuse to do a hcg. They are taking cost cutting to the extreme. Will Mr G want me to have one? 

Cozy - because of my history my consultant promised me bi-weekly scans up to 18 weeks...lets hope he sticks to it. But there is a brilliant private scanning place which if I get to that stage I will use for a nuchal scan + a 3d scan & sexing scan. Our trust refuse to tell you the sex as they worry you may abort (if its not the sex you want!)...but will tell you if you pay them £50! In another words its about making money. I would rather put the money towards an additional private scan after 20 weeks and find out then. 

Right must go to sleep

Night all x


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## Ourturn

Not looking good...can barely see a line this am  . There's probably no point calling Mr G today is there? Should I retest tomorrow and cal him if the line gets stronger? No point sorting out a drip if its a chemical. 
I'll call my nhs clinic but they will probaby just tell me to test on OTD, Wednesday.
Anna


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## Cozy

Anna,

I think you need to get a blood test done today and Weds and take it from there. Is there a private clinic nearby who could do the test for you if your NHS one wont? Or your GP?

Is it a F/R test you are using? Even if the line's faint its still a positive.

I hope and   it works out for you   

Personally I wouldnt phone Dr G today I would get bloods done first, but its up to you. A couple of days wont make any difference to having Intralipids when you had some 2 weeks ago (you did didnt you?)

good luck  

Cozy


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## Ourturn

Cozy - Yes I had IL and IVIG drips 2 weeks ago. Yes I'm using FR tests. I will call my nhs clinic and see if they will do a blood test. If not I'll try my gp...if not I'm stuck, there is no where else to get them done were I live (its a bit remote)


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## Newday

Anna I hope you are wrong. How far from Birmingham are you? Mums at Solihull do HCG's I know it's a distance but might be worth a try or is there a Nuffiled hopsital close? Thats were I have mine or try Care at Nottingham

I am still negative but will have bloods tomorrow and clinic has suggested I get thyroid checked.
Dawn


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## Ourturn

Newday - I have called my clinic and asked for HCG's. She will get back to me once she has gotten hold of my consultant. I am hoping he will agree due to my history and he did the blood tests with my last pg. Worst case I will go to Mum's tomorrow and Thursday (Solihull is near to my work but I am only there Tues-Thurs) Thanks for that. 
The nurse booked a scan for the 19th..didn't want to jinx it but she said the slots get taken and it was best to get it in. 

Thinking about it I slept really badly and tested after only 4 hours sleep, so just 4 hours between pees as opposed to 7 -8. Still feeling really sick so trying to stay positive.

Anna


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## niccad

Been away all weekend & couldn't see the messages... hate that on your phone you can't do the 'click here' bit when a new thread starts... BOO... 

Anna -    that it's a BFP... a line, even if faint, is still a line  

Ells - good luck with the IVIG this morning. 

xx


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## lalaby123

Anna really    that it's still a bfp for you I think your 4 hr sleep could b the reason for the faint line hope u can sort out a blood test if not test again tomorrow am 

Ells take lots of healthy food and drinks to take with your ivig u will b fine and time passes quick if u chat to the other ladies there


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## Saffa77

anna - hope you get a good result  

got my 2nd beta in today. 

1st beta just said over 1000 - 13 days past 3 day transfer
2nd Beta - 2186 - 15 days past 3 day transfer what do you think is this doubling ok?

Sx


----------



## Newday

they sound to me like they are doubling
Dawn


----------



## Saffa77

but what is so annoying is they cant give me the exact first figure it could be anything in the 1000.  It could be 1900 if you know what I mean!  I am going to see the nurse now and see if I can get exact figures very annoying cos now doctor said he cant say what the exact progression is if he dosent know what the first figures are aaaaaaaaaargh!  NHS is useless


----------



## Ourturn

Saffa - sounds good to me hun! I would kill for those numbers! By the way were you getting pain in one side? I have had pains in my left side..pretty sharp but not af like.

My clinic agreed to do x2 beta hcg on the nhs. So had 1st one at lunch time. Second one on Wednesday. Thing is I won't get the result of the second until around 4.30pm on Wed. If today's is above 10 should I just get onto Mr G and sort IL out? How soon would I need it done? Could it wait until Friday 18 days post transfer?


----------



## bunagirl

Hello ladies how are we all today?
So Broody   that this little one sticks for you.  I think its a good idea that you are getting HCG done asap will put your mind at rest.  Sorry, dont know about the IL situation but i'm sure someone on here will be able to advise you.  Hang in there lady.  

Dawn    that things turn around for you.  

Agate, Lalaby, Pinpin, hope you are all taking it easy.  

Peanuts congrats on the new job.  Must be a relief that your new/old boss knows about your tx.  

Cozy enjoy your scan! 

Ells!  so lovely to meet you and your DH today whilst getting our IVIG.  Was really nice to chat openly with people that truly understand this rollercoaster, your such a positive person I'm sure this will be the one for you both.  Good luck with your scan next Wed, will be willing your follies to grow!     

AFM  Had my first IVIG today, which only took 1 1/2 (although Dr G didn't see me until an hour after my set appt, ho hum  )
Was actually quite funny, Dr G tried to put the cannula into a vein in my wrist at first (I always look away as I cant stand to see the needle go in) when I heard him say 'oops a daisy' I turned to look and the cannula had somehow popped out leaving my hand and wrist covered in blood, together with Dr G's shirt and tie!!   He had to go and clean himself up in the toilet!!  He was quite sweet and apologetic about it. Bless!
So, have sent my script for IL's off to [email protected] and hopefully they can fit me in this Friday as we fly out to Barcelona to have our FET on Monday the 8th!!
Feel quite otimistic about it all, as I feel we have addressed alot of problems with the LIT, Steroids, Clexane, Gestone, Aspirin, Progynova, Viagra and all the Vits I'm taking.  Just      that this works!

Hi to Diane,Berry Niccad, Bling and everyone else on this thread.  Good luck with your tx's wherever you are in them.
Ps. Toffee girl, How are you doing?

Much love to you all.
Bunagirl. XXXX


----------



## Ourturn

Bad news - hcg is less than 5. Having blood done again Wednesday but I'm 99% certain I've had a chemical. Yesterday's line is defginately a line but  today's must have been evaps. 
If I as I suspect I am told to stop everything Wednesday night (so last gestone will be weds am), when do you reackon af will hit me...Friday? 

Gutted


----------



## Saffa77

So broody - I am so so so so sorry      i know anything anyone says will not make you feel better.  Was this your first blood test?

S


----------



## Diane72

Oh no, SoBroody, I'm so, so sorry but will keep praying for a miracle until Wednesday   I know the wait will be killing you, sending you a thousand hugs   

Diane xxx


----------



## ells

Just wanted to pop on quickly and send Sobroody massive      , I am so sorry.     thinking of you and your DH sweetie, I do hope the lab made a mistake with your levels hunni.  

Bungagirl, it was great to meet you too hunni.  It always sooo nice to put a face to the name and be able to talk to someone who understands.  I really hope that all goes well on Monday and that you, DH and your embies get home safe.  Sending you lots of            .  

Dawn, I really hope you get some good news from the blood test tomorrow sweetie.

TB how are you doing hunni     ?

Hi to everyone else hope you are all well, thank you for your messages.  The IVIg went well took about 3 hours, the last one went through quite quickly about 40 mins so I should be okay for [email protected] - if the nurse ever rigns me about my IL's on Wednesday   .  I had some good news from Dr G, my TNFa have come down from 40 to 26, he thinks they are probably around 20 now because I had the 2 extra humira shots, so very pleased with that news.  I can also feel my ovaries now so am pretty sure they will be doing some counting on Wednesday for the first  follie scan.

We also asked him about his LIT tx and he hopes to have everything up and running by the end of this month, he said he was just waiting for the lab to sort their end out.  Fingers crossed!  He also said he was going to be going away for a week from 13th March he will be back by 20th.  

I'll try to pop back on later for more personals but didnt want to read and run.

 to all.

Ells


----------



## lalaby123

Sobroody i am so so sorry       what a rollercoaster you have been on the last few days....i hope the second test shows a miracle jump 

Saffa - your hcg is fine and VERY high so get ready as they may be twins!

Ells thanks for letting us know when Dr G is going to be away

Cozy - how was your Nuchal??

Agate - hope u ok??


----------



## deegirl

Firstly Sobroody - really sorry to hear your news hun  

Ells - haven't been chatting to you in a while!  Glad your IVIG went well today and those numbers have reduced well!  You must be pleased!  Thanks for letting us all know when Dr G plans to do LIT.  I'm hoping I might be one of his first customers!  

Saffa72 - congratulations to you    

Hi to everyone else....Dee x


----------



## bunagirl

So broody.   So sorry about your HCG levels.    that things change for you on Wednesday. 
Much love Bunagirl


----------



## mag108

...just bobbing on quickly to say Sobroody, I am really sorry. I hope the news is different on Weds. Its so so hard. You are doing very well, hang in there. xxxx


----------



## Cozy

Hello ladies,

Sobroody, so sorry, its not looking good is it, to be so close to being pregnant is awful I know. I wish it had worked out differently for you. I know some places if its less than 10 wont even do another test, but at least you will know for definite.  

Saffa, your numbers look fantastic, I wouldnt be surprised if you have more than 1 in there  

Lalaby, nuchal scan was great, no problems, everything looking very good and as it should be. Blood tests all came back very good too. Sonographer thinks its a boy but cannot be 100%. How are you? 

Ells, good luck with your follie scan on Weds. good news about your TNF. 

Bunagirl, good luck with your FET on 8th. I have the canula put in the inside if my elbow, it goes in very easily and it is better for me, there is no way  I would have it done in my wrist. I cant watch as it goes in either 

Hi to all the other ladies, just on my way out, so cant stop and chat  

Cozy


----------



## Pinpin

Sobroody -     I am so sorry.

Bunagirl - things are really moving for you now - in less than a week you will be PUPO !!   You are right to feel positive about this cycle as you have covered all the basis of the immune treatment and I have no doubt that this will make all the difference for you this time     I'm like you I cannot watch as the cannula goes in and always have him put it in my arm as the veins are larger!

Saffa - with these numbers I reckon it's twins  

Cozy - fab news on nuchal scan!   all looking good - are you feeling ok? x

Lalaby - how are you doing?  

Newday - good luck with the thyroid bloods today 

Agate - how are you doing? x

Pinpin x


----------



## Saffa77

thanks ladies  I am now worried about not having done LIT Dr G said I could have it upon a BFP but when we chatted on the phone when i told him about the BFP he asked me if i had had LIT and I said no and he said ok.  Didnt ask me to get it done! My B and T cells were 40% so not very low but not very high either.  Hope its ok.

Sx


----------



## Chicky Licky

Anna - really sorry to read your news today. I've not been on here that much so completely missed the faint lines you had the other day, so sorry I didn't put a post on for you then. I'm gutted for you hun. Sending you big hugs.

Cozy - can't wait to find out if you're right about a little girl - how exciting!!!!

xx


----------



## Ourturn

Did another FR test this am. Looked negative. Popped it in my bag. Looking at it now there is the faintest on lines ! WTF? Checked the other tests...Sunday..definately a line, yesterdays no lines (must have been evap). Today a super faint 2nd pale pink line. Is it possible the 1st embie implanted then failed and the second is now trying? I have been having a mix of sharp and pulling pains in my left side since Sunday.
Had decided not to bother with a blood test tomorrow, but think I definately need to go. 
Anna x


----------



## berry55

so broody- i'm so sorry to hear ur news   i hope that tomorrow brings u good news xxxx

Quick qn... I have been for my 1st LIT with Dr T and i'm due my 2nd LIT on 23rd march. I need to start my nxt batch of humira. When should i take it? Am i right in saying its fine to take the humira as long as i dont inject on the same week at LIT 

I will b bk on for personals later.

berry xxx


----------



## Bling1975

Berry - I can't get hold of Dr G so I am still wondering about LIT and Humira. It seams that you take them during the same period (but not the same week) and that you have 4 weeks between LIT. What did Dr G say about that to you?


----------



## berry55

Bling- Dr G didnt say anything to me about anything. He just told me to take the humira 2 weeks apart. I have already had 2 injections of humira... but then i had to do a retest and order more humira. It just arrived today.... but i had a LIT on the 23rd of feb (which dr G knows about)  so i'm trying to work out the best way to do the humira. 1 today then another in 2 weeks time then the week after will b my 2nd LIT. But i have seen some girls say that Dr T tells them to do humira after the LIT. i'm so confused   lol


----------



## Louiseb26

Hi ladies

Anna - I really hope its good news tomorrow.Will be thinking of you  

Ladies I'm sooo P***** off.I went to retest my bloods this morning at Dr G.On paying my card was declined (felt so   ) Tryed again as this was my ivf account,so i know there was more than enough money in there...it declined again   Lucky i had my other card with me.Went straight to the bank,to be told that someone had cloned my card,and cleared my whole account out     They were using it in Thailand as i was using it here.They said I'm covered...but want to leave the card running...they have opened a new account for me,and said i wont get the money back for another 3 weeks   Thought this chip and pin was to stop all this...just goes to show that its not as safe as they thought.
Lucky i  booked acupuncture today...i really need it.

Berry - Dr T told me to take Humira one week after LIT,then the second lot 2 weeks after that.

Lou xx


----------



## Swinny

Hey girls

Not posted on here for a while but i just wanted to bob and give Anna a massive   and a  . I really don't know what to say honey other than go and get the blood test tomorrow and at least then you can be certain of what's happening. I am sending you lots of    

Cozy - Yeyy!! good news on the scan. Hope you are looking after yourself chuck xx

Mag108 - How you fixed at the weekend for meeting up for a coffee?

Berry - Not long until we're off to Athens. Looking forward to meeting you xx


----------



## niccad

Anna -      that the HCG increases loads xxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## mag108

sobroody: Yes you must retest hun.    

Lou: thats a pain, god no matter how careful we are! Glad at least you managed to retest.

Shellie: I did the DIY way, lets hope it all works out!

kisses to everyone else, sorry no more persos, my head is just so full from what turned out to be a stressful day.

Got my GP nurse to draw blood this am. Annoyingly she hadnt been given the letter with details of what tubes etc, that I got DH to hand in last week. But I think we got what we needed. Then jetted off to general hosp for another test for something else.
After a number of hours of waiting I got back to the carpark only to find I was blocked in! I was so annoyed as I had to get back with the car for DH to go to work and for me to wrap/package all the blood for the fedex courier arriving at 4pm! I ended up (didnt tell DH this) ...driving over a curb and an embankment. Dont think I damaged the car (fingers crossed!)......


xxxx


----------



## 3babies

Just book marking this page for future reference 

2babies x


----------



## ells

Evening ladies,

just wanted to pop on and say hello.  

Sobroody, really hope that you get some good news tomorrow hunni    

Dawn how are you hunni?  I really hope no news is good news    .

Lou - what a nightmare hun.  I hope that they get the money back into your 'new' account quickly hun.

Mag's hope the DIY bloods are all ok.  I dont think I am brave enough to do that myself.  Hope the car is okay  

Deegirl, hi sweetie, how are you hunni?

Hope everyone else is well, Agate, Pinpin, Lalaby, Niccard, Nix, Cozy, Cath, MM, BP, TB, Bling, Berry, Diane and everyone else.

AFM finally got my IL sorted out - what a nightmare     .  I rang and faxed [email protected] last Thursday and ended up phoning them 4 times today to get everything sorted out for tomorrow   .  They could only offer me one time 1.30pm so I am having it - dont laugh   ..... at work   .  I am going to lock- well shut the office so no one can disturb me but I can still do a few bits and bobs on my comp.  I have my first follie scan tomorrow morning, I am sure that there are a few growing as I can feel my ovaries, hoepfully they are fairly even sizes.

have a good evening ladies.

Ells


----------



## ratsy

Hi agate trying to pm you but your inbox full  

R xx


----------



## mag108

ells, good luck for your scan, I think YOU are brave having tx at work!


----------



## Diane72

Hello Everyone  

Sobroody, I'll be thinking of you tomorrow-either way we are here for you.

Ells, I'm very impressed at you doing your intralipids at work!! What do you do? Good luck!

Mag, how frustrating that they blocked you in, people are so selfish sometimes, well done on the Dukes of Hazzard style exit though  

Louise, can't believe the whole card cloning thing, what a nightmare  . Hope it all gets sorted out without hassle. 

Berry, Bling,think you've had a few responses on the different boards on the humira now, so all should be OK. Gorgy told me to take mine one week before and one week after LIT. Good luck!

Pinpin hope all is going smoothly

Cozy, glad the nuchal scan went well and all was well  

Bunagirl, the vision of poor Mr. Gorgy with blood everywhere made me smile   Sounds like all systems are go for Barclona, sending you lots of luck.

Hugs to everyone else,   Day 8 of 25 days of antibiotics and dreading the laparoscopy on the 15th of March.

Diane x


----------



## Saffa77

Aaaaarghreally worried as have no pregnancy symptoms at all nothing! Had had a few af pains over Saturday now nothing hope nothing has gone wrong!!! What symptoms did u bfp ladies get?


----------



## Cozy

Saffa,

you need to try to stop worrying and analysing everything, there are no text book symptoms for early pregnancy and everyone is different, every pregnancy is different. If this was a natural conception you probably wouldnt even no yet.

I'm sure everything is fine. When is your scan?

Take care  

Cozy


----------



## Newday

Just to let you know blood test confiemd negative 0.97
Dawn


----------



## Cozy

Newday,

so sorry Dawn  

Cozy


----------



## Saffa77

Dawn - sending you big hugs!!

Cozy I guess you right it's doing my head in!! Scan is Monday getting more beta results today


----------



## Pinpin

Dawn - so sorry    sending big massive hugs   

Saffa - I have to echo what Cozy just said: you must stop worrying ( I know it's easier said than done but please try) and stop over analysing every detail, your first 2 HCG levels were fantastic, lots of ladies on here would give up lots to have those results... so at this stage everything is going well for you and we are all crossing everything that it continues  

Ells - well done for sorting out the IL ...... AT WORK!        

Bunagirl - when are you off to Barcelona my lovely? x

Cozy - it sounds like you are too having a boy     it's lovely knowing isn't it?

Diane - I hop ethe lap will go well, I have not had one but hope it will be as pain free as possible for you. You are one determined lady, you truely are covering all basis this time and I cannot wait for you to cycle again and get the BFp you deserve so much  

Anna - I have everything crossed for you today xxx  

Lots of love
Pinpin x


----------



## Chicky Licky

Lou - can't believe you'd had your card cloned!!! Lucky that you found out really. Must have been really worrying.

Mags - well done on doing the diy blood tests! Fedex guy arrived early with the wrong packaging. Lucky I had a box I could use! I was so nervous about getting it right my hands were shaking while I was doing it!!    Just logged onto the tracking facility and it's in the US on route to it's destination! Can't wait to get the results back!

Anna - thinking of you today - hope your blood test gives the results your hoping for. 

Cozy - I'm dying to know... are you having a boy or a girl?    Pinpin mentioned about a boy but I can't see your post confirming it.  

Dawn - sorry to hear that the bloods confirmed a negative.    Sending you big  

Hi to everyone else

xx


----------



## Louiseb26

Shellie - How you doing my lovely? My heart fell to the floor when i saw the account over drawn   £15,000 they took   

Dawn - I'm so sorry Hun...was hoping it would be different.Stay strong lovely  

Anna - Thinking of you...really hope you get your BFP.

Can anyone tell me if its OK to drink green tea through your tx.I read on another thread that you should stay away from it...thought it was really good for you.Thats all i drink now  

Lou xx


----------



## Chicky Licky

Blimey Lou - £15K!!!! They really hit the jackpot then. Hope they catch them. At least you're covered by your bank and will get it back. 

Do you know when you start your tx yet?

xx


----------



## MissyMinx

Hi Ladies, 

So sorry I've not posted for a while.  

Dawn,      I'm so so sorry.  Thinking of you. xx

Sobroody, thinking of you and sending   and  

Louise - I'm really confused about the green tea thing too, I've got some de-caff, but I'm not sure whether it's ok to drink.  I'll watch out for an answer.  That's awful about your card being cloned.  I hope you get it sorted soon.

Shellie, how're you doing?   Well done for sorting your bloods.

Mags, your driving style sounds more than acceptable under the circumstances - fair play to you. x

PinPin, hello - hope you're ok.

Saffa, sending you   - it must be so difficult not to analyse everything.  Hope you're ok.

Cozy - that's great that you know what your little one is going to be by now?  Are you having a boy?  How lovely for you.  xx

Ells -      So sorry for laughing, but I love the IL at work.  Talk about super woman!!  You're amazing - literally working through your tx.   Really hope you're ok.  Sending those follies lots of growing  

Diane, sending you   and hoping the antibiotics aren't making you feel grotty.  Thinking of you. x

BunaGirl - hope you're ok. xx

DeeGirl, how're you doing?  xx

Niccad - hello and  

Hi to Swinny - really looking forward to meeting you in Athens. x

Berry and Bling, hope you got some clarification on the Humira dates.  Hello and   to you both.

Agate, how're you doing?  Thinking of you and your bump xx

AFM I've not been posting much as I got myself a little bit down in the dumps I'm afraid.  90% of the time I don't let things bother me, but every now and again the magnitude of our predicament sinks in and really gets to me.  A couple of insensitive remarks this week were enough to send me into the doldrums.  I hope I'm over it now though, and I'm raring to get on with things.  Next step LIT - 23rd March - yay!

Love and   to all.

Em.x


----------



## Saffa77

ladies got my beta its gone from 2186 ( 15 days past transfer to 6509 ( 18 days past transfer) AM HAPPY and going to relax.

Sx


----------



## MissyMinx

Congrats Saffa.  Lovely news. Enjoy every second. xx


----------



## Ourturn

Lou - that really sucks! 

Hi everyone 
Did two tests this am FR & CB digi both negative so pretty certain I know what the blood tests will say. 
I have just received a second blow. My Lad retest results are back and rather than going up, the already super low numbers have dropped even lower  
I know this means I will probably need to go back to athens for a 3rd lit. Will get in touch with Mr T. Just hope I'm not one of these women who need pooled (multiple donors)..if that's the case I would have to go to India!!!! 
Have booked a telephone consult with Mr G for Friday.
Have also decided I need to get myself booked in for a hysteroscopy as Mr G suggested I needed to get this done. Pretty sure my private health will cover this under recurrent mc investigations. 
Anyone know if this has to be done during a particular time in my cycle?
Then I wonder should I bother continuing with this? Is this the universes way of saying I should just stop? 
Thanks
Anna x


----------



## agate

sobroody1 said:


> Agate was saying that hcg is slower to rise in ivf pregnancies....
> 
> Agate - do you know why that is?


they think because development in a dish isn't quite the same as development in the natural environment.



sobroody1 said:


> Anyone know if this has to be done during a particular time in my cycle?
> Then I wonder should I bother continuing with this? Is this the universes way of saying I should just stop?
> Thanks
> Anna x


of course you need to continue!  according to Dr B the best results come 6 months after you start treating immunes (esp if you have had high tnfa).
I hope you are wrong about the blood test - it is pretty common to get zero on a stick and a positive on bloods because so much can affect the stick e.g., how dilute the pee is.

I don't know, but I think hyst is normally done towards the end of your cycle so that the lining can be examined - but I would def check with Dr G.



MissyMinx said:


> Louise - I'm really confused about the green tea thing too, I've got some de-caff, but I'm not sure whether it's ok to drink. I'll watch out for an answer.


I stuck to regular green tea during stimms - its good for lowering TNFa (de-caff tea is not that good for you because they have to remove the caffeine using some pretty strong chemicals). After stimms I stopped the green tea and switched to watered down pomegranite juice (to avoid the early m/c risk assoc with caffeine) - you can always have made with hot water if you want a hot drink.

Dawn: I am so very sorry. I hope things change to let you have another try if that is what you want.



Saffa77 said:


> Aaaaarghreally worried as have no pregnancy symptoms at all nothing! Had had a few af pains over Saturday now nothing hope nothing has gone wrong!!! What symptoms did u bfp ladies get?


very little - just a funny chemical taste, but just wait until you get to 8ish weeks and start puking!

Ladies: I'm sorry I've missed posting recently. I must have forgotten that the thread had been renewed.


----------



## Nikki2008

Anna I have not posted on this thread before but seeing your post I would like to announce the birth of my son Alexander on 18.2.10 with the help of Dr Gorgy, my obstetrician and the Instituto Marques to name a few. At times I doubted I would get to this point so I can relate to your question. I cannot promise you a successful outcome but looking at your history and age I would continue. Having said that only you will know how far to take this.   

re green tea I did drink it during my pregnancy what is the issue with it? The caffeine content is quite low isn't it?

Saffa I did not have any pregnancy symtoms during the first trimester.


----------



## agate

sobroody1 said:


> Did another FR test this am. Looked negative. Popped it in my bag. Looking at it now there is the faintest on lines ! WTF? Checked the other tests...Sunday..definately a line, yesterdays no lines (must have been evap). Today a super faint 2nd pale pink line. Is it possible the 1st embie implanted then failed and the second is now trying?


more likely is that the dilution of your pee was different on different days. At this point, we are talking about tiny quantities of hcg so the pee dilution can make an enormous difference - only bloods are reliable at this point.


----------



## Ourturn

Nicki - CONGRATULATIONS! That's wonderful news. 

Agate - thanks, but I'm pretty sure I know what the bloods will say later 

Anna x


----------



## berry55

Hey girls,

I know this might be such a stupid qn to ask you... but i'm hoping that it will put my mind at ease for my nxt cycle. Everytime i have ET i always worry on the 2ww about the way i sleep at night. I usually sleep on my side or on my front. So i always end up sleeping flat on my back, but then i never get a gd sleep 'cos i cant get comfortable. What do u girls do 

xxxx


----------



## agate

Nikki2008 said:


> re green tea I did drink it during my pregnancy what is the issue with it? The caffeine content is quite low isn't it?


the only issue with the non-decaff green tea is the caffeine content (the decaff kind can contain different chemical residues so is probably best avoided), but you are supposed to be able to drink at least 3-4 cups of green tea per day without it being a problem in pg, so long as you keep the rest of your fluid intake up. If you have bleeding or anything else that indicates that you might be put at extra risk of early mc, then its probably safer to avoid it, because anything that reduces your hydration would be a risk you probably wouldn't want to take.

congratulations!

Berry: sleeping on your side would be fantastic (that's what you need to aim for in pg), but in 2ww/early pg, sleeping any way up won't matter.


----------



## berry55

agate- thanks xx so i am now gonna b able to sleep in my 2ww!!! phew!!! lol


----------



## Nikki2008

Berry What is your concern? I just slept as usual. Btw the two cycles that resulted in a BFP I was very active lifted a lot of boxes certainly did not take it easy during 2ww only abstained from coffee.


----------



## berry55

nikki- everytime during the 2ww i am so paranoid about the way i sleep incase i do something to the embryo/s so i always just try to sleep flat on my back... which is not the way i normally sleep. I usually am alwasy on my side or on my front. So i never get a gd sleep cos i get myself so worked up about that. xx


----------



## Nikki2008

Don't worry there is no way imo that the way you sleeps makes a difference better you get a proper rest!


----------



## Saffa77

anyone on 60mg clexane Dr gorgy has asked me to up from 40mg to 60mg now I have to take 2 injections!!! do they not have a 60mg pre done clexane?  Mine came in 40mg and then another smaller injection with 20mg so now its two bruises a day apposed to one and also find the 20mg makes me bruise more as set up different.

Sx


----------



## agate

saffa: clexane comes in 20, 40, 60, 80 and 100mg syringes - I guess the pharmacy you used were just out of stock of the 60s so they gave you what they had/could get easily?
It comes in a larger spring action syringe and a thinner straightforward syringe.  I think maybe the spring action ones might be being phased out, so maybe you have some older stock of one of these?  I find the non spring one easier to use.

If you want the 60s, maybe next time you could warn your chemist a few days in advance and ask them to get them in for you?


----------



## Ourturn

blood test was negative as suspected. 
Follow up booked for Tuesday, but only because I want the consultant to do my hysteroscopy..no way I am going to pay to cycle there. 
E-mailed Dt T re lad and speaking to Mr G on Friday. 

Anna x


----------



## berry55

sobroody - i'm so sorry hun!    thinking about you xxx


----------



## agate

Anna - that was exactly the news I was not wanting to hear.  I am so very sorry.  I hope you follow up and Dr G consult give you some useful info.


----------



## mag108

Annasobroody: I am very sorry to hear that. I hope that by applying yourself to these next test etc you will feel ready for another shot.

X
my fedex day got worse and worse, not only did they mis-inform me anout pick up times so I missed the 2pm pick up for the US (for 10am)...This morn I got a call while at work to say, 'erm, we've messed up and it wont get there til tomorrow! Thursday!....rightly angry, anooyed, peed off.


----------



## bunagirl

Hello ladies  
Dawn - so sorry my love.   Do you have any frosties left?  Take care of yourself sweetie. 

Sobroody - Its a tough,tough journey but please dont give up yet!  

Missy minx - It can be so hard sometimes.  You think your doing ok, you go to your appts, plan the next scan, take your pills, do your injections, watch what you eat, infact every living, breathing moment fells like its all about your tx and then you have a moment of clarity and it hits you, just what it is we have to do in order to make this dream come true (which is so unbelievably easy for some).  It really does take my breath away some times and can feel so overwhelming!  
I hope you feel better today and, yes your LIT is something to look forward to as it is going to help realise your dream.  Stay strong, it will happen for you!!! 

Ells - IL @ work!  I've heard it all now! The things we do hey.  Spoke to Jade today from [email protected], she took my payment for the IL and now I am waiting for a nurse to call and arrange IL for Friday, looks like I might have to do some chasing myself 

Diane 72 - Your well on your way now to sorting out your infection, best of luck with the Laparoscopy.  

Saffa - Amazing Beta results!!!  You really should relax now,  put your feet up and take it easy.  

Pinpin - Hello you!  We fly out this coming Sunday afternoon.  All being well with the thaw, transfer will take place on the Monday at about 1pm.  We will then fly home the same evening.  Starting to get a little nervous now, only five more sleeps!!!!  Cant wait to start taking the Gestone!!!   Hope you are well my dear and starting to enjoy your pregnancy, say hello to DH from me.  

Lou - What a pain in the  !!!

Nikki - Many, many congratulations!!! So happy for you.  

Hello and hugs to everyone else I have missed.
Bunagirl. XXX


----------



## Louiseb26

Shellie - I'm waiting to go back to see Dr G on the 10th for my results...I'm hoping he will say i can start as soon as,well thats if the results are OK...fingers crossed.When you ready to go?

Anna - I'm really sorry   I was so hoping for good news.Really pleased your keep on going...this is a bloody hard road.Stay strong Hun.

Em - Sorry to see your feeling down   Its hard to keep positive all the time...i know we have all felt the way you have at one point...chin up lovely,don't let them get you down  

Agate - You come to the rescue again.Thanks for answering about the green tea.I'm drinking green tea with jasmine (antioxidants) got them from Holland & Barrett.I gave up the coffee & tea   On the 2ww i will stick with boiled water with lemon. Hope your doing OK  

Lou xx


----------



## ells

Evening lovely ladies,

Sobroody hunni I am so sorry to hear about your results.  Sending you lots of big     .  I hope you get the hysto sorted out soon hun.   

Newday, I am sorry to read your news too sweetie     .  I hope that you and your DH will take some time to look after each other but that when you are ready you will continue down a successful road with this rollercoaster     .

Diane, hi hunni, gosh lots more antibiotics to go but almost halfway   .  I hope the lap goes well.  I work in HR hun, I had nooooooo chioce with IL's but it was fine, just bled a bit when they took the drip out - whoops   but it was fine.  I would have it done at work again as it was pretty straight forward and I could still do my work so all worked out quite well.

Em, hun    we have all definitely been there before.  It is quite a daunting trip this IVF but glad you are raring to go.

Bungagirl   , Jade is the same lady I spoke too, she is really nice and very helpful.  She did tell me yesterday that the nurses normally only phone in the afternoon/evening before you need the drips as thats when they get their patient lists.  I did say its a bit of a problem if you work   and she said she would get the nurse to phone me but the nurse was fine she said it shouldnt be an issue and now she has done my first one it should be fine and she will make sure I can do mine at the end of the day.  Good luck for Sunday hunni, will be thinking of you.

Saffa great BETA level, hope you are now relaxing and enjoying being pregnant.

Nikki congratulations on your little one, its sooooo nice to hear of success stories.

Agate, hunni how are you doing?  I really hope you are resting and taking things easy.  Whens you next scan?

Pinpin how are you feeling?  I hope the bump is growing nicely.

Lalaby, I hope you are doing well too hunni.  When is your next scan booked in?

Oh no Mag's thats not very helpful of them, will you be able to get some money back if it was there fault? 

Lou hope you are well.

Berry sounds like you have a plan with the LIT etc hope its all going well.

Bling have you managed to get your IVF plan sorted out?

Hi to everyone else, sorry if I have missed you off the personals but I am thinking of you all.

AFM, well had follie scan this morning and girls I am in total shock   the doctor counted 30 yes 3 0 follies   .  i couldnt believe it.  She also measured them and they are all around 15 the smallest being 11mm - I am sooooo pleased.  My lining is also great (her words).  EC is looking like being Monday but I have another scan and blood test on Friday, she did say that there was a chance they may cancel the cycle but I am     very hard that they dont and it will all be fine.  She seemed to think that the response was due to my crohns being controlled and my body working as it should.  Blimey!!  I think its also linked to Dr G and his treatments and all you lovely ladies with your advice on supplements etc.  Thank you!!!  

Hope everyone has a great evening, will pop back on later.

Ells


----------



## Bling1975

Thank you all for all the information, I am learning heaps here.

I have managed to have my TB test done but the nurse didn't know how long I will have to wait for the result as the blood couldn't be analysed at their lab. But as soon as I have the answer I can get on with my treatment plan. Still haven't heard back from Dr G, he normally replies within a day or two. Might send him another email tomorrow. 

I am so sorry to hear about all of you that had bad news recently, I really hope your time will come soon. I know that all the positive outcomes here give me so much hope.


----------



## bunagirl

OH MY GOSH ELLS!!!!!  Thats fantastic news on your follies!!!  Everything crossed for Monday..     
Love Bunagirl. XXX


----------



## Zeka

Hey lovely ladies, 
Anna, Dawn - just wanted to send you both a massive hug each. Im so sorry for the heartache you must both be feeling now.   

Lots to catch up on here, so will just say a quick hi to everyone else  

On the green tea debate, there is a lovely tasting rooibos green tea called tick tock that you can buy from tesco. the great thing is its naturally caffeine free so avoids any nasty decaf chemicals and also doesn't have that bitter taste if you leave it brewing for too long. I'm a convert!  


Zeka x


----------



## Diane72

Hello All!

Wow lots of posts.

I agree with Zeka, I'm a 'Redbush' convert (Tetley do it ans call is Redbush but its the same). Someone next to me when I was recovering from EC offered me one of their teabags a few years back and I was coverted!

Bling, good luck with the TB test

Ells, wow, lots of follies. Remember, to drink lots to avoid OHSS     Great news on the lining. Take it easy.

Louise, good luck with the results, hope you can start soon!

Bunagirl, sending you lots of fairydust  

Mag, how frustrating on Fedex messing up  

Oh Anna, I'm so, so sorry. Sending you lots of hugs   Re: the LAD results mine fell after the Armstrong LIT last time. Its also definitely worth doing the hysteroscopy, make sure its someone who will do a detailed one- Is it Mr. Gorgy you are doing it with?

Berry , seriously the way you sleep won't make any difference, just try to get a proper night's sleep  

Saffa, sounds like the HCGs are going well

MissyMinx, I do know what you mean, sometimes this journey is just so hard and it feels almost impossible that it will end with a baby in our arms. Keep the faith and good luck with the LIT!  

Pinpin, glad everything is still going well, thanks for the  

Cozy, Agate and everyone else sending you all    

These antibiotics are making me feel sooo tired, looking forward to the weekend!

Diane x


----------



## -Starflower-

Hello again, everyone.

I'm starting on humira in a week's time.  Are there any side effects?  And is it easy to inject, do I need someone to show me how?  I've ordered it from Healthcare at Home and I'm used to doing intramuscular injections into my backside, but I've never done subcutaneous.

Many thanks!


----------



## Zeka

Hey Sflower, I didn't have any side effects (maybe a bit tired the day after but nothing significant). And its sooooo much easier to inject than an I'm jab! Sounds like you'll be fine if you're happy doing these. Just grab a bit of tummy fat and slowly inject. I really take my time but each to their own I guess. 
Good luck,
Zeka x


----------



## Louiseb26

Hey Zeka,how you doing lovely  

Sflower - I never had any side affects on Humira.I got my DH to inject mine.Like Zeka said...into the tummy fat (which i have alot to choose from   ) I found it ok.Good luck.

Diane - Hope you come off the antibiotics soon...poor you  

Ells - OMG...thats brilliant news lovely...looks like its all falling into place now.Have everything crossed for Monday  

Anna,Dawn Thinking of you both  

Cozy - I read on the other thread you might be having a boy...what fantastic news  

 everyone,big   to you all.

Lou xx


----------



## -Starflower-

Thank you, Zeda and Louise, you've really put my mind at rest.

I just hope it works!!


----------



## Peanuts

Hi girls

Lots of post!!  Can't keep up!

Anna & Dawn - wanted to send you both big hugs     Thinking of you both and hoping that you're able to take care of yourselves and take time to come to terms with things before thinking about your next steps. 

Big hugs to everyone else, be on over the weekend to catch up properly
Dxx


----------



## Ourturn

Dawn - hope you are OK?  

Hi everyone 

Had a consult with Dr G and 

He agreed I need to have a 3rd donor lit in Athens using pooled donors
He wants my tfn retested 
Agreed the Chamydia test with menstrual blood was a good idea and is sending me the stuff (doing it through him means I can claim it back). This will show if I have a latent infection high in the uterus with needs serious antib's. The uk blood test we have does not pick this up. Apparantely this infection causes recurrent mc's.

He agreed donor eggs would be a good move. I asked if I was wasting my time continuing with my oe. He said he couldn't say...I produced embryos...but not many. He was pro doing a de cycle with Penny in Serum Athens. 

DH and I had a long talk and have come to the following agreement. Sort my lad levels along with everything else. Try naturally with immunes as recommended my Dr G but plan for a de cycle later in the year. I seem to be able to get pg on my own more easily than with fertility treatment so an oe ivf tx would probably a drain physically and financial. A de cycle abroad (with immunes here) will probably give us the best chance as 

a they use younger donor
b no waiting list
c can easily match my polish ethnicity
d more embies transferred
e higher success rates 
f cheaper

No brainer really. DH (to my suprise) is totally onboard with de. I just need to get to grips with it. At the end of the day I want a healthy baby. I would happily adopt but this has advantages. 

We're booking a week in Egypt in May, same place we went in September. Good motivation to shift some pounds too!

Still very weapey and sad but happy we have a plan.

Anna x

PS Any recommendations for de clinics in europe welcome. So far looking at Penny at Serum Athens and Jinemed in Cyprus.


----------



## Diane72

Said it on the other board, but will say it again *Good Luck * Anna!!!! This journey continues to test us but at least we're all in it together. 

Dx


----------



## Ourturn

Thanks Diane - your advice today has been invaluable   Hope your regime does not make you feel too poorly
x


----------



## ells

Sobroody   , sounds like you have a good plan going forward sweetie.  I didnt know you had Polish roots - snap   .  In terms of clinics, dont know if you would want to consider them but there are a few in Poland that we looked into last year that have excellent reports and deal with immune tx too.  If you want some of the links PM me and i will try and find them.  

Dawn I hope you and your DH are looking after each other.  I have been thinking of you.

Diane, how are you feeling on the AB's?  I hope the side effects are not too unpleasant hunni.  

Agate, how are you lovey?  I hope you are still taking things easy.

Sflower, I felt a little 'fluey' for the day after taking the humira and my knees ached for a few days but that was it.  I agree with the other ladies, inject slooooooooowly as it does smart a bit when it goes in.

Bunagirl, you must be getting packed ready to leave this weekend.  I'll be thinking of you hunni, everything will go well.    

Lou how are you hunni?  

TB how are you feeling?     

Hope everyone else is well.

AFM, have had a really busy, busy day, acu first, clinic second, office move third, then had to pop and say hello to my Aunty and Uncle who had just arrived from the States, then popped in on my nan (she's still in hospital), then shopping - phew   now just catching up on Eastenders and of course FF   .  The appointment went well at the clinic and I have 18 follies  that are ready to go on my right ovary and about 10 on my left with a few waifes and strays but looking good.  They are all about the same size which is brilliant - never had that before. Lining is looking good 10.8mm - the best yet.  EC is booked for Monday, to doc has put me down as first on the list    have to be at the clinic for 8am.  I feel absolutely fine, the doc has given me this new drug to take from tomorrow until ET to help with any OHSS and said that they will keep tabs on me after EC.  She is going to be doing my EC too and I am pleased to say that she has promised to use the same concoction for sedation and even top it up if necessary as before, so I feel quite relieved about that as I am bit of a baby when it comes to sedation   .  I have also been very fortunate to get my GP surgery to do my gestone injections in the mornings, so DH doesnt have to worry about it.  Right off to drink another pint of milk and litre of water   .  

Hope everyone has a fab weekend.  Sending lots of   to everyone.

Ells


----------



## agate

ells said:


> the doc has given me this new drug to take from tomorrow until ET to help with any OHSS and said that they will keep tabs on me after EC.


Is it cabergoline? I had that one.


----------



## Ourturn

Ells - I'm 1st generation born over here..went to polish saturday school, guides the works! Good luck for ec Monday, sounds like you have a bumper crop  

Agate - congrats  

Anna x


----------



## ells

Agate, yes hunni thats the one.  They have had some really good results with it.  Did you have any side effects?

Sobroody - definitely snap!! To your list I can add dancing in the Polish Dance group which my little sis now leads   .  I hope you are right with the bumper crop!!  

Ells


----------



## tinks21

Hi, I have been reading the forum for quite a while and thought it was time I joined in - hope you don't mind!  It has been so interesting  reading all your posts and I have learned so much from all the discussions.  So - thank you all!

We are about to start a new ICSI with Dr Gorgy,  I have had all the immune tests etc etc.  We've been for our first LIT in Athens and are due to go for the second on Tuesday.  I am a little uncertain of all the timings and how a cycle would work with Dr G.  (Any advice from those who have cycled with Dr G would be greatly appreciated)  Having been with a clinic which regulated and pre-planned everything before you even started, I find it daunting not knowing what the next step is.  But, I am thrilled to have treatment from a Dr who will (hopefully) give me a tailor-made treatment cycle.  I have to be honest, after 7 years of ttc, my DH and I are not particularly hopeful, probably a little realistic after all the BFN's and not a sign of a pregnancy anywhere.  But, I am working on being really optimistic as this is our first immune cycle so God-willing - this will be it!

Well...I look fwd to getting to know you all - have a great weekend everyone.
C xx


----------



## agate

ells said:


> Did you have any side effects?


none side affects at all - and I didn't develop OHSS after I had it. I think its a prolactin inhibitor but I don't know how that helps with OHSS.

Anna: thanks! - I think I'm 1/4 polish too.

tinks: Hi!


----------



## deegirl

Tinks21 - you going to Athens on Tues?  If so see you there!  I've got blond hair and will be with my hubby who has dark hair!

Dee x


----------



## mag108

Ladies
good morning.
Bobbing on quickly to see if anyone had Gorgys email at the academy (he said it was on his website and it aint).
I need to send him my LAD results to talk through on Monday. 

Ells : go girl go!

More later
X


----------



## Ourturn

Mag - [email protected] or [email protected]

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## mag108

Thanks Sobroody! hope you are getting so peace, rest and love this weekendX


----------



## bunagirl

Hi ladies hope you are all enjoying the weekend!  

Sobroody - Sounds like youhave a really good plan of action which is just what you need right now.  Me and DH are using DE and are using Institute Marques in Barcelona.  We really like them and found them really professional but caring too.  I got pregnant 1st time 1 year ago but sadly miscarried.  We are going back tomorrow for a FET on Monday   YIKES!!!! but this time we have done immunes alongside with Dr G.  There is no waiting list and will try and match to your requirements ie; hair/eye colour, height, proven donor, blood types etc...  They are a tad on the expensive side but they do have great results.  Feel free to pm for more info anytime my lovely.  Take care of yourself.  

Ells - Looking good for you my dear!!!   Hope all goes will and the new drug helps keep the OHSS at bay.   Will be thinking of you at your EC as I will be making my way to the clinic to collect my embies at the same time!!!  Best luck in the world to you and DH next week.       How much time will you have off?

Tinks 21 - Welcome!   Your in good hands with Dr Gorgy!

Agate - How are you my dear?  Have you weaned off any of your drugs yet?  

Pinpin -  

AFM - Had my IL at home yesterday afternoon which was really nice and relaxing after a completely mental morning at work meeting a major deadline .  DH did my gestone shot this morning which was fine.  Infact, he insisted on doing it, think he feels a bit of a spare part at the moment and just wants a  little more involvement, he did a good job too. 
Question ladies re the Gestone shot, Morning or Afternoon?  or does it not matter, I'm also using pessaries.

Sorry to anyone that I have missed, hope you are all well and looking after yourselves, much love to you all!    

Bunagirl. XXXXXX


----------



## agate

Hi bunagirl: yes I'm off gestone now and pred... but still tapering off pessaries and going back up to 40mg clexane tomorrow.  ILs later in the week.

It doesn't matter whether you do gestone morning or evening so long as you are fairly consistent (2 hours variance maybe) and then space the pessaries out to go with it.  So if you are doing pessaries twice a day then, say do gestone morning, pessary aft and bedtime, or pessary morning and aft and gestone bedtime. If its pessaries once a day then if you do gestone am, do pessaries pm or vice versa.... etc


----------



## bunagirl

Thanks so much Agate!  Good news about coming off the Gestone and Pred.   What lovely news that your having a girl!  So pleased for you.  Take it easy and I do hope you are starting to relax and enjoy your pregnancy, not that easy I know considering all that we have to do to maintain one!  

Love Bunagirl. XX


----------



## tinks21

Hi Dee - yes we are going to Athens this Tuesday, leaving tomorrow.  I too have blonde hair and DH has dark!!  Is it your 1st or 2nd LIT?

I was wondering if anyone takes Wheatgrass/Barley?  I have been taking the horrible green stuff for quite a while and read somewhere that it can raise TNF levels.  Mine are borderline, but I would hate to cause a problem!  As a matter of interest, what supplements are recommended particularly for immunes? (if any)  Thanks

Tinks xx


----------



## Saffa77

Just a quick one can one bleed on gestone or dou you only get af one u stop gestone?


----------



## agate

Tinks: there are studies that have shown that wheatgrass can raise NKactivity and hence TNFa (NK cells are one of the main producers of TNFa) - but these were mainly done on subjects who were very ill (e.g., cancer sufferers) who probably had reduced NKa/TNFa to begin with.  So its not clear whether it would raise NKa or TNFa in either people who have normal levels or those who already have raised levels.  Spirulina might be a good substitute for wheatgrass, so is sometimes seen as a safer option but it hasn't been studied enough to be sure - and you need to make sure it comes from a reputable source to avoid nasty contaminants (from the water it is grown in) if you are going to be taking it long term.

Supplements/foods for reducing TNFa: turmeric/curcumin, green tea, pomegranate juice, resveratrol (grape/japanese knotweed extract), possibly pycnogenol (martime pine bark extract), possibly lycopene (tomato extract).  Most of these haven't been safety tested for pg though, so you might want to stop them on 2ww/bfp.  The safest ones to continue are probably the ones that are common in foods eg., tumeric/curcumin, green tea (although bear in mind the caffeine, pomegranate, lycopene.  The riskier ones are probably resveratrol and pycnogenol.  Omega 3 fish oils are likely to be helpful in the short term but apparently become less helpful when you take them for longer (maybe your body gets used to them?) and you have to be careful if you start on clexane as well because they also thin the blood - best to buy a premium brand which is certified very pure to avoid nasty contaminants and also because the premium ones are easier on your stomach which becomes an issue when you start on all your stimms and progesterone and get more sensititive. 

Things to avoid:  saturated fats (skip pastry, butter, sausages, cakes, biscuits and chocolate) - swap for olive/rapeseed oil - and try to avoid anything that makes you feel bloated (probably a sign that it doesn't agree with you, so might be causing inflammation and therefore TNFa) - some ladies try a gluten or dairy free diet if they think they might be affected.

Also worth avoiding when you can: non stick cookware (stainless steel/enamelware is safer) if you can because the chemicals in the non stick can build up in the body and have been shown to be associated with reduced fertility.

don't know if there is anything I've forgotten, but a lot of it is common sense - skip the junk and eat high quality proteins and lots of fruit and veges.


----------



## agate

Saffa77 said:


> Just a quick one can one bleed on gestone or dou you only get af one u stop gestone?


yes, you can get any kind of bleeding (spotting/light/heavy) whilst on gestone or pessaries, but it is also possible for gestone/pessaries to hold off your AF. It depends on how level/how sufficient the resulting level of prog is in your blood, how sensitive you are, and whether there are non-hormonal reasons for the bleeding/spotting e.g., irritated cervix, subchorionic hematoma (like a bruise/mini tear between the placenta and the uterus).

In your position, its worth you knowing your emergency plan if you do get a bleed (I could have done with knowing it in advance).

1) don't panic - the babies are probably fine (bleeding, even heavy bleeding is v common in immune Tx ladies)- move slowly and try to keep your feet up if you possibly can
2) if you are at work - go home (slowly) to rest.
3) keep extremely well hydrated.
3) phone your GP/local NHS EPAC/EPU or private scanning place and try to get an immediate scan - you want to check whether there is an obvious reason for the bleeding and check that the heartbeats are still there. If this is absolutely impossible to get quickly - at least you can get some indication if you can get a speculum examination at A&E to check that the cervix is still closed (that is a good sign). If you bleeding very heavily or in a lot of pain, then the priority is to make sure you are ok, so you probably have to go to A&E.
4) phone Dr G (make sure you have his mobile no for emergencies) to see if he recommends IVIG asap and if so, find a way to get it done asap. It can help to stop a hematoma in its tracks - but you might need, say 2 drips close together if the bleeding doesn't stop after the first drip.

If you are fretting because you have no symptoms still - stop. most ladies feel very little until they are say, 8-10 weeks.

When is your first scan?

hope this helps.


----------



## Ourturn

deegirl or tinks - could one of you book me in for a 3rd lit on 20th April? 

Had my last gestone Wednesday am and AF has only just arrived this am


----------



## Saffa77

Agate - you know me too well.  Yes still having no symptoms and its worrying me sick!!! I need to stop this worrying.  I will be 6 weeks tomorrow and have my 1st scan tomorrow and just almost feels stupid going in for this scan when I feel nothing this is exactly how i feel.  I just feel like the baby has stopped growing!!!  I know I should be happy to have my long awaited BFP but I need some sort of symptom.  My (.) (.) are absolutely normal no aches no pains no nothing.  I am just hoping I get good news tomorrow.

Sx


----------



## Ourturn

Saffa - every pregnancy is different. I have felt very sick with chemical pregnancies when my hcg levels woud have been tiny, but felt next to nothing at 6.5 weeks when we had a heart beat and my hcg was 20,000 + !!!!


----------



## ells

Morning ladies,

Just wanted to pop on and say hello quickly.  

To all the ladies heading to Athens, have a safe trip, hope all goes smoothly   .

Sobroody and Dawn just wanted to send you both big    .

Agate, hunni hope you are relaxing and taking things easy.  When's the next scan?

Saffa hunni I am sure you will get some further reassurance from the scan.  Enjoying being Pg.

Thumbelina, how are you hunni?  how are you feeling?  Sending you lots of     .

Bunagirl, thinking of you hunni   .  Safe trip over today, I will be    for you tomorrow.

Lou how are you sweetie?

Pinpin hope you are feeling good.

Cozy, lalaby, Cath hope you are all well - sending bump rubs to you all.

Missyminx hope you are well hun and that you are feeling a bit brighter again   .

Diane, how are those antibiotics going?  I hope you dont feel to yuck on them.

Niccard hope you are well hun.

Nix havent heard from you for a bit, hope all is well with you too hun  .

Hi to everyone else, hope you are all well  .

AFM I have EC tomorrow morning, feeling nervous about it   .  I just     that we get some good eggs and more then we had last time    .  Considering I have about 30 follies that are ready to go I feel fine, not feeling bloated or uncomfy which is a real surprise, I can feel my ovaries they feel heavy and a little tender but not painful.  So all good there.  I will post and let you know how I got on as soon as I can.  

Hope everyone has a lovely Sunday the weather here is absolutely fab, have to go out and get DH B day card - I do hope we have lot to celebrate on Tuesday so his day is a good one      .

Ells


----------



## Ourturn

Ells - good luck for tomorrow


----------



## Zeka

Ells - good luck for EC. Hope you get a lovely crop.

Thumbelina - have sent you a pm re DONOR LIT on 23rd March. Hopefully you'll be logging on this weekend/tmrw 
Hello to everyone else. Hope you're all doing ok today. 

Zeka x


----------



## lalaby123

Dawn and Anna I am sooooo sorry for your confirmed negatives it sucks sending u lots of        and hope u will hav the strength to move on and try again 

Ells what an amazing bunch of eggs!!!! Good luck for tomorrow really hope u get lovely embies from them ... And u go girl getting IL at work!!!

Cozy glad nuchal went well great news 

Saffa I felt nothing till 7 weeks and then hav had every symptom since once u get the heartbeat confirmed on your 6 week scan u will start to believe it more 

Diane good luck with the laparoscopy i had one and i was just a little sore afterwards 
hope u r overdosing on probiotics while on the AB

agate glad ur well and coming off drug

hi to all I've missed too many on this thread now to keep up xxxx 

Hi to everyone else


----------



## Louiseb26

Ells - Good luck my lovely...will be thinking of you


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

Lalaby, thanks for the reassurance on the laparoscopy. Re: probiotics, we're not allowed dairy while on them but Sobroody mentioned that you might be able to get them in tablet form. I'm feeling OK now, its just DH thats still getting headaches.

Ells, good luck for egg collection   I'll be thinking of you

Hugs to everyone else    

Diane x


----------



## Saffa77

Ells - wow awesome news- all the best for ec tomorrow


----------



## agate

good luck ells!


----------



## fi7

Hi all

just popping on to catch up.    i seemed to have lost this thread for a while

good luck to all those going to Athens

Ells good luck tomorrow

fi


----------



## ells

Thanks ladies     .

Ells


----------



## MissyMinx

Good luck Ells - thinking of you and sending you lots of   and  

Hello and huge   to all the other ladies.

Em.x


----------



## tinks21

Agate - thank you for the info on the wheatgrass etc.  I have been taking wheatgrass and spirulina together for a while but am now thinking that perhaps I should stop the wheatgrass.  We eat a very healthy diet as it is...my only real sticking point is chocolate but am working on that!      Thanks for all the other tips - you obviously know what you are talking about.

Ells - all the best for today's EC.  I hope it goes according to plan.

Tinks
xx


----------



## niccad

Ells - good luck for EC today. I'm sure you'll get a lovely bumper crop of eggs. Enjoy the lovely sedation xxx


----------



## Saffa77

Hi ladies

Just back from scan and guess what saw 2 sacs and 2 heartbeats!!!!! Oh my gosh I am living a dream.  Still early days though!!


Sx


----------



## Bling1975

Saffa - wonderful news. Congrats!!! 

Enjoy your little ones


----------



## niccad

Oh Saffa - that is such wonderful news... Many congratuations


----------



## agate

congratulations, Saffa!

do you have to have another drip now?

are you going to see your GP and try and get her to prescribe your clex and gestone from now, or do you have another scan booked?


----------



## Ourturn

Saffa - congratulations!      

Just booked a week in egypt in May. Going back to this amazing all inclusive 5 star resort with its own coral reef and the cost for two of us was less than an IVIG drip! 
Diet starts today!


----------



## Zeka

Saffa, that's amazing news!! Massive congrats!!!

Sobroody, I like your ivf drug comparaison. Its definitely the currency you end up working by isn't it! Egypt sounds v attractive right now!

Zeka x


----------



## Saffa77

thanks ladies yes have another drip Intralipids on Friday.  THen am getting my NK assay retest done on the 22nd of March - have received all the tubes and paperwork so just need to courier them like I did last time.  

Will try get the clexane and prednisolne on NHS prescription do you think I will be able to get it as the first time I had asked doctor wasnt too sure but am sure they will help me out now!!!  What should I ask them though just to convert to a NHS prescription or go see GP myself??

Sx


----------



## MissyMinx

Congratulations Saffa - what wonderful news. xx

Sobroody - I love the IVIG comparison - it's mortifying when you think of it like that isn't it though?!  I thank heavens for you ladies - my friends couldn't posssibly understand when I try to tell them things like that.  You enjoy every second of your holiday.


Em.x


----------



## agate

Saffa: Once you are 'officially pg', the GP should be happy to fill in a mat. exemption form for you.  You post it off and get back a card which entitles you to free prescriptions (and some free dental).  Then most GPs would probably be happy to take over writing your prescriptions for clex, pred and gest (maybe some would refuse and maybe some would want to see something in writing from Dr G - but if your GP knows you, she will probably take your word for you what you need - especially if you show the packets for the stuff you've been on).  So, I think if I was you, I would take your scan pics and see your GP and talk to her.    She will also get you referred to the MW so that you can be seen by her at about 10 weeks and get booked in for your NHS 12 week scan.  You will probably be on pred and gest til 12 weeks (and then you will need a little bit extra pred to wean off) and the clex will continue til about 31 weeks probably.


----------



## ells

Afternoon ladies,

Thank you so much for your kind wishes and thoughts - you ladies are so lovely   . 
Quick update post from me as still very sleepy.  We got 19 eggs so very very pleased with that, feeling quite sore but not too bad.  The doctor was very happy and said they were excellent eggs, just waiting for the dreaded phone call tomorrow morning.     we get some good embies     .  

Saffa - what fabulous news hunni, take it easy, relax and now enjoy your pregnancy   . 

Bunagirl been thinking of you hunni, hope you have som beautiful embies nestling in for the next 8-9 months. 

Back on later for more personals.

Ells


----------



## Louiseb26

Hiya Ladies

Saffa - Thats beautiful news...well done lovely  

Ells - Thats fantastic news.I know how you feel about waiting for the phone call   Take it easy lovely...hope your not to sore.

Anna - Sounds lovely where your going...its a well needed one.

Big   to all you lovely.

Lou xx


----------



## Ourturn

Ells - congrats that's a bumper crop!


----------



## Newday

congratulatiolns Ells and Saffa lovely news!

Agate can I aske about the pomegrante juice |I have bought some but now realise it says Juice drink there is no added sugar though.
Will this be OK or do I need to get the juice from M&S is that the only place that does it?
dawn


----------



## Ourturn

Dawn - the only place I have found that does pure pomegranate juice (not from concentrate) is M & S. Comes in a 500ml bottle, £2.50 each. Pricey but its even more expensive to juice your own.


----------



## Zeka

Hi ladies, 
Has anyone done any digging to see if there is any research on when is the best time to take Humira before starting tx? Eg is it best to finish 2nd jab and then leave it 6wks before you start stimming or something like that? 
Love to all,
Zeka x


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

Ells, woohhoooo, congratulations, I hope you get some nice blastocysts and frosties from that bumper crop!! I'll   for you that fertilisation goes well!

Saffa, congratulations on the scan  

Zeka, good question, haven't had the time to look into it though (just not enough hours in the day)

Sobroody, enjoy Egypt! You deserve the break. DH and I thought the same at X-mas we couldn't decide on whether to put a trip to the Maldives on credit card and then I said exactly the same to DH-its the equivalent of an IVIG and a few intralipids. It was the best thing we could have done I felt so much better after the break. Re: Diets have a look at the Anna Richardson one, its low GI and has loads of really lovely recipes (DH is loving it too but topping his up with a wholemeal pitta at dinner, which does officially 'break the rules').

Hugs to everyone else  

Diane x


----------



## Newday

how much of the stuff should I drink?
dawn


----------



## Ourturn

Diane - maldives now that would be nice...sigh!  I have the Partick Holford, Low GL (Glycemic load) diet books. Supposed to be good for immunes and balancing hormones. Did you see me q re the yuk test? Is it one part blood to one part water?
ta


----------



## Diane72

Anna,

Interestingly we had 'Egypt' in mind when I went online to FirstChoice to book (days after my last miscarriage) but then the Maldives came up as a deal and if you travelled on X-mas day it was the same price as Egypt so we went with that as we went to Sharm El Sheikh last year-both have fantastic diving and lots of lovely fish to see!

I bought the Patrick Holford one too. I get bored of having the same recipes so tend to 'mix & match' all my low GI/GL diet books for inspiration. As a PCOS sufferer I've been doing it for years!

Re: the blood, don't worry too much about the exact dilution just put in enough water to make sure it doesn't dry out / clot too much. 

Diane x


----------



## agate

Newday said:


> congratulatiolns Ells and Saffa lovely news!
> 
> Agate can I aske about the pomegrante juice |I have bought some but now realise it says Juice drink there is no added sugar though.
> Will this be OK or do I need to get the juice from M&S is that the only place that does it?
> dawn


I've been drinking the supermarket's own brand juice drink - yes it has sugar (but at least it has no artificial sweeteners - lesser of 2 evils) and the M&S stuff is too pricey to ask DH to buy for me (he brings home the shopping) ... which I realise sounds stupid compared to the amount we are spending on ivig etc....

I drink maybe a quarter or half a litre a day but I dilute it 1:4ish in water.


----------



## Jilly02

Evening Ladies,

Have just got results of new immune tests, this time with Dr G and these are the results, I was hoping someone could translate for me. Which one's are ok and which are not and what they mean etc



TH1:TH2 intracellular cytokine ratios

TNF-a:IL-10 (CD3+CD4+)        21.7        (13.2 – 30.6)
IFN-g:11 (CD3-CD4+)              7.3        (5.8 – 20.5)

NK Assay (% Killed) Panel

50.1                          27.0    (10 - 40)
25.1                          18.9    (5 - 30)
12.5:1                        8.1    (3 - 20)
IgG conc 12.5 50:1 **          13.7
IgG conc 12.5 25:1 **          19.7
IgG conc 6.25 50:1 **            5.5
IgG conc 6.25 25:1 **          13.0
% CD3                          64.5      (60 - 85)
% CD19                        5.8        (2 - 12)
% CD56                        *25.2      (2 - 12)
% of CD19+ cells CD5+        *36.2  (5 - 10)

** > 10% reduction in killing at each effector/target ratio


Leukocyte Antibody Detection

Flowcytometry            Negative
(T-cells) IgM+                3.1
(T-cells) IgG+                1.1
(B-cells) IgM+              31.1
(B-cells) IgG+              20.5

DQ Alpha Genotype

DH  3.1,4.1  0301.0501
Me  1.3,3.1  0103.0303

NK assay w / Intralipid

50:1 w / Intralipid 1.5mg/ml  19.0
25:1 w / Intralipid 1.5mg/ml  11.1

TH1:TH2 intracellular cytokine ratios

TNF-a:IL-10(CD3+CD4+)                21.7
IFN-g:IL-10(CD3+CD4+)                  7.2

Thanks,

Jilly


----------



## agate

Jilly:  I'll have a go.

TNF-a:IL-10 (CD3+CD4+)        21.7         (13.2 – 30.6)  (good - no raised TNFa)
IFN-g:11 (CD3-CD4+)               7.3         (5.8 – 20.5)

NK Assay (% Killed) Panel

50.1                          27.0     (10 - 40) (higher than ideal - you'd like your NK cells to kill off less than 15% of the target cell sample - your cells killed off 27%)
25.1                          18.9     (5 - 30)
12.5:1                         8.1     (3 - 20)
IgG conc 12.5 50:1 **          13.7  (your NK cell killing power does seem to reduce if you add a solution of IVIG - so you will probably be helped by IVIG drips)
IgG conc 12.5 25:1 **          19.7
IgG conc 6.25 50:1 **            5.5
IgG conc 6.25 25:1 **          13.0
% CD3                           64.5      (60 - 85)
% CD19                         5.8        (2 - 12)
% CD56                        *25.2      (2 - 12)  (you have a higher proportion of NK cells in your blood than normal - so you have elevated NK numbers as well as the elevated NK activity/killing power - above)
% of CD19+ cells CD5+        *36.2  (5 - 10)  ( you have a higher proportion of autoantibody producing B cells than normal - this MIGHT mean you have anti-hormonal activity - so you might be offered IVIG to bring it down, and will end up on extra doses of progesterone e.g., gestone shots in case you have antiprogesterone activity (where your body destroys progesterone too quickly)

** > 10% reduction in killing at each effector/target ratio


Leukocyte Antibody Detection

Flowcytometry            Negative
(T-cells) IgM+                3.1
(T-cells) IgG+                1.1
(B-cells) IgM+              31.1
(B-cells) IgG+               20.5  (you'd prefer this to be over 30 or even better 50 - LIT will probably be recommended to you - see the LIT thread)

DQ Alpha Genotype

DH  3.1,4.1   0301.0501
Me  1.3,3.1   0103.0303  (this means that, IN THEORY, 25% of the embryos that you make with your DH will have the same DQa as you.  Embryos that match you are more likely to set off your immune response - this MIGHT be manageable by having intralipid/IVIG drips plus steroids, it MIGHT be helped by having LIT before you cycle, and transferring 1 embryo at a time MIGHT help (to try and avoid having a good non-matching embryo affected by the immune response triggered by putting it back with a matching one) - but whether to do SET or DET is not an easy decision.

NK assay w / Intralipid

50:1 w / Intralipid 1.5mg/ml   19.0  (your NK killing power is also suppressed by intralipids so intralipids might be helpful as well/instead of IVIG drips)
25:1 w / Intralipid 1.5mg/ml   11.1

Have all your thromobophilia results come back negative e.g., MTHFR and the level 1 ones as well?  If so then you probably won't be prescribed clexane - otherwise you probably will.  

So you are likely to be prescribed steroids and IVIG and/or intralipids and you should probably think about having LIT.  With regards to your good TNFa result - it suggests that humira wouldn't be an automatic choice, but Dr G may suggest you might want a uterine biopsy done to make sure you haven't got elevated uterine NK cells too - because he normally prescribes humira for them too - he doesn't suggest the the uBiopsy before doing the bloods, because if they came back with high TNFa ratios, he'd be suggesting humira regardless (so would save you the having to have biopsy).

Hope this is a start.


----------



## Bling1975

Quick question about Humira.

I have slightly raised TNF alfa. Dr G talked about two shots two weeks apart.

But now other people in Sweden is telling me that I need to take them all the time with two weeks apart, possible also after a BFP?


----------



## mag108

Ells
Congrats what a great crop!   

Saffa: Oh my goodness what fab news  

Sobroody: Great idea! Really good to get a proper break. 


xxx
to everyone
my eyes are googledy tonight having spent oh, 5hrs or so (last nite and tonight) trying to find a short break in the lake district, the iternet has made me very picky!


----------



## Jilly02

Agate,

Thank you so much, it all makes sense I think. I do have an autoimmune condition, so it will be quite interesting to show these results to my nhs con, who is useless, but no other con available in my area.

Jilly


----------



## agate

Bling1975 said:


> Quick question about Humira.
> 
> I have slightly raised TNF alfa. Dr G talked about two shots two weeks apart.
> 
> But now other people in Sweden is telling me that I need to take them all the time with two weeks apart, possible also after a BFP?


maybe other docs do things different ways but Dr G follows Dr b's protocol where the course of humira is finished before you cycle - usually he does a 2 shot course but for high levels he sometimes repeats the course after a retest - but again humira finishes before you cycle


----------



## Seven

Hi,  does anyone know how long the tests Mr Gorgy does take to come back from America?

K


----------



## agate

different tests take different lengths of time. the rfu manual lists how long the test takes to run then you have to add on 1 or 2 days for the fedex.

http://rosalindfranklin.edu/DNN/home/CMS/Microbiology/CILab/CITests/tabid/1311/Default.aspx

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## Bling1975

Thanks Agate, that's how I understood Dr G as well, but I got unsure when I heard otherwise as I might misunderstand English sometimes, especially over the phone.


----------



## lalaby123

Saffa- CONGRATULATIONS!!! what lovely news )    make sure you take it very easy over the coming weeks, I also recommend acupuncture to prevent miscarriage but it has to be from someone who knows what they are doing. Don't panic if you get a bleed as many of us do and it scares the hell out of you but do call dr G and your clinic immediately if you do.

Tinks - Hi  would be great if you shared your success story on this thread http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=224269.0

Jilly - Agate has covered it all. The only thing I would add is get Dr Beer's book 'is your body baby friendly' to understand better what this all means and the treatments you may be offered. I believe your high NK activity and your high Natural Killer cells C56 could be a major hindrance to you not getting pregnant and by tackling them you should hopefully get your BFP

Sobroody - great plan to go on holiday to Egypt

Ells - congrats on your fantastic harvest! hoping for the next round of good news

Hi to everyone else I have missed out, hope you are all well xxx


----------



## lalaby123

Diane - being on antibiotics for so long I really recommend you taking some probiotics/acidophilus as the AB will destroy all the good bacteria in your digestive system which is our first line of defence and play a huge part in the immune system. Once the good bacteria are eroded this will allow bad bacteria to take over and this can lead to many problems simplest one being Thrush/ candida which you don't want. In the rest of Europe everyone doctors prescribe antibiotics they also prescribe good bacteria to combat the negative effect of the AB. Its best to take them in tablet form to get a big enough dose. It needs to be at least 10 BILLION bacteria per capsule. The brand I know is good is Biocare and you can get it from Nutricentre.com or you can get any brand that is kept in the fridge and is free of additives especially yeast.

Saffa - please share your success story on this thread when you are ready http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=224269.0


----------



## Diane72

Lalaby, 

I was just researching which tablet to get so thanks for the reco.!

Diane


----------



## Diane72

Just ordered form the nutricentre and some turmeric capsules aswell while I was there. 

Thanks Lalaby


----------



## Peanuts

Hi girls

Saffa - congrats on your twins     Thats such lovely news.  Hope you're able to relax a bit more and start to enjoy yourself.  Where did you get your scan?  My clinic in Edinburgh won't scan you until 7 weeks!

Ells - wow, bumper crop of eggs - well done you girl    Keeping fingers and toes crossed for good fertilisation rates and a lovely batch of embies, blasts and frosties!  

Sobroody - liking the comparison with the IVIG - scary isn't it!! Hope you and DH have a fab holiday 

AFM - just getting hotels sorted out for next LIT, and then need to sort out [email protected] for Intralipids.  Its all starting to get very real - waiting for A/F at the beginning of next week then need to call clinic to start d/r with the pill.  Then start stimming 3 weeks later!  Here we go again!  Just need to phone and pay for the cycle tomorrow  

Big hugs for everyone   
Dxx


----------



## Saffa77

Thanks ladies!!!

Peanuts - I had my scan done at my IVF clinic locally would had treated me in the past.  Had to pay £100 for it though and was 6 weeks.  My next scan will be 8 weeks.  Yes feeling a bit more relaxed after yesterdays scan but wont be relaxed for too long LOL

Hi to all else!!

Sx


----------



## Jilly02

Abate,

Have read through your reply post again and forgot to respond to your question.

thromobophilia results all came back negative, so I assume that's good?

I forgot to say that I'm on 20mg Prednisolone daily and have been since May last year, so my result would probably be worse if i wasn't, is that right?

We are doing ED, due to my condition, so would our donor be better a complete match, i.e blood group or are there other match requirements we should look into like DQa?

I have ordered Dr Beers book in the hope it will educate me a bit more,

Thanks for your help,

Jilly


----------



## agate

Jilly02 said:


> thromobophilia results all came back negative, so I assume that's good?
> 
> I forgot to say that I'm on 20mg Prednisolone daily and have been since May last year, so my result would probably be worse if i wasn't, is that right?
> 
> We are doing ED, due to my condition, so would our donor be better a complete match, i.e blood group or are there other match requirements we should look into like DQa?


Yes, its good not to have thromobophilia (sticky blood) it means you will either be able to get away with no clexane (blood thinner) or else just a small daily dose. Dr G will advise you.

Its not possible to say whether your results would be worse if you weren't on steroids at the time of taking the blood - steroids do reduce NKa for some ladies but not for everyone. As to whether they would affect the other classes of cells - steroids can sometimes have slightly odd effects - it is possible for them to cause apparent increases in some classes of cells by reducing the rate at which cells move from blood to tissue - essentially its impossible to say whether your results would be worse without being on steroids.

Being on steroids could be an issue for having LIT - it might reduce its effectiveness, so you might need to budget for more shots of LIT than average.

As to matching: the immune issues relate to whether the embryo will match your DQa. If you are having DE but not DSperm then you know that all the embryos will have 1 DQa number from your DH (and 1 from the egg donor). You know that 1 of your DH's numbers matches yours. If the egg donor does not have any DQa matches with you, then none of the resulting embryos could match you. If the egg donor has identical DQas to you, then THERORETICALLY 1 in 4 embryos would match you.

DH 3.1,4.1
You 1.3,3.1
ED 1.3,3.1

(1.3, 3.1), (1.3, 4.1), (3.1, 3.1), (3.1, 4.1) 1 in 4 (not great)

If the donor was 1.3, 1.3 50% of the embryos would THEORETICALLY match you
ED 1.3, 1.3
(1.3, 3.1) (1.3, 4.1), (1.3, 3.1),(1.3, 4.1) 2 in 4 (worse)

If the donor was 3.1, 3.1 (or anything else where she doesn't have a 1.3, - there could be no matches with you
ED 3.1, 3.1
(3.1, 3.1), (3.1, 4.1) (3.1, 4.1), (3.1,4.1) none in 4 (fab)

So theoretically, being an 'immune sensitive lady' you'd like a donor who was anything other than (1.3, something).

So what are the chances that a random donor is DQa allele 1.3? About 6% in white americans (don't have the stats for the UK) - so you'd have a 3 in 50 chance of picking a donor who was a match. If you were going to take into account allele 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 and 1.5 (on the assumption that everything on allele 1 is a bit similar) then you are looking at 40% - so you'd have a 20 in 50 chance of picking a donor who was a match.

The proportion of people having different DQa does vary depending on their genetic/geographic origin - so there are free databases where apparently you can look up the frequency of different HLAs (inc DQa) in different parts of the world e.g., http://www.allelefrequencies.net/default.asp (not that I can get that one to work on my computer!). So, I suppose, you could expect a donor picked from a different genetic origin to you, to be less likely to have DQas in common with you.

But basically, it comes down to, either you ask whether potential donors can be screened for DQa to see whether you can avoid a donor with a matching DQa to you, or you take a chance on the donor's DQa and hope for the best (and then you monitor your NKas as the pg develops and if you do get an immune flare, you hope to treat it with IVIG/ILs as it happens).

As to blood group matching - I'm sorry I don't know much about that - except that I guess you'd probably avoid an Rh positive donor if you and DH are both Rh neg - and if you were planning on hiding the child's origin, you'd want to pick a donor whose blood group combined with your DH's would result in blood groups that would be possible to be inherited from you - I am explaining this badly - but the possible blood groups that a child can have depend on the combined blood groups of the genetic parents. There are charts of this e.g., http://mistupid.com/health/bloodinherit.htm


----------



## Jilly02

Abate,

I can't thank you enough, great explanation and it all made sense to me. It is so difficult when you see the Drs as they talk their talk and it might as well be another language and their time is limited, so to be able to go armed with knowledge will allow me to ask the right questions with some understanding,

Thank you once again,

Jilly


----------



## Chicky Licky

Has anyone ever used the reserve of 37.5 iu left in the Gonal-F pens to stimm with? Last time I pulled out the trigger on the pen and squirted the reserve down the sink - seems such a shame. I'm only 150 iu short for my doses (after buying 4 x 900iu pens). I don't really want to buy another 300iu pen and was thinking about priming carefully and using the reserve in each of my 4 x 900iu pens. Alternatively I could buy 2 x 75 iu vials but I messed one of them up last time so don't really get on with them. Any thoughts anyone?

Also, If I'm having LIT Tues 23rd - will I be ok to take Pred Steriods on the following Tues 30th? I think I am but could do with someone to reassure me!!! 

Thanks Shellie
xx


----------



## agate

ShellieG - I think I'm being a bit thick today - but if you haven't started stimming yet, how do you know how many doses you are going to end up needing (i.e., how do you know they won't up your dose or stim you for longer?)

I don't know how safe it is to use the 'reserve' but things to think about:  how long will the pens be 'open' for before you use the last bit (thinking of keeping the stuff sterile and how long it is safe to take a dose from the same pen for)? if being sure of the exact quantity is in issue, MAYBE you could inject the 'reserves' into a fresh 1ml syringe to add them up and check the volume then inject using that syringe with a subcut needle instead of using the pen?  When I was told to use only a half dose of some of the drugs in prefilled syringes, the method I used was to squirt the whole dose into a new graduated syringe and then inject half down the sink. I don't know any answers - just thinking of how it would work.

As to steroids, I THINK Dr T recommended 2 weeks clear of steroids after LIT  (but I was pretty scared so maybe I wasn't listening as well as I could be) - I assume tthis time is to give your immune system plenty of time to react to the LIT before it gets interfered with by steroids.  It certainly won't harm you to start steroids after 1 week, but its POSSIBLE you will get a little less value for money from your LIT shot - but then the extent/success of the LIT reaction seems a bit random anyway.


----------



## ells

Hi ladies,

just logging in quickly to update, we had really good news this mornign when the call eventually came through!  Out of 19 eggs, 18 were injected and we have 14 embies growing, the embryologist was very pleased with everything.  I was starting to go a bit   as I didnt get the call until 11.45am   .  Feel a bit sore and bloated but not too bad.  Taking it very easy and steady today, I hope to feel more 'human' tomorrow.

All this talk of holidays is making me feel very very pale and in need of tan   .

I will be back on tomorrow with proper personals    .

Ells


----------



## agate

wow ells that's fantastic! when will ET be?
drinking plenty of milk and water to ward off OHSS?


----------



## Chicky Licky

Ells - fab news on your eggs - great numbers!!!

Agate - I don't know for sure but l'm just going by what my dose was last time and what happened then. I've been put on the same dose this time for the same amount of time. 

I was going to use the reserve up as I finished a pen and include it as part of my next dose. I've mulled what you said though about getting the exact quantity - even though it clicks to the 37.5 I guess I can't be sure. I like your idea of the syringe but I just think I'd probably mess it up!! I don't think I'm going to risk it and order 2 x 75iu vials to make up what I'm short. Hate them though as last time I pulled out the wrong bit and had to chuck it in the bin! Expensive mistake!! I might just take them when I have my scan and ask the nurse to prepare them for me to inject! Might be a better plan! 

Re the steriods, I think 2 weeks clear is the best option but you can get away with 1. Like you I was a bit scared and wasn't listening as well either! lol!    I've got no choice but to leave it 1 week anyway as my cycle is right on the back of this booster LIT. I'll double check with Dr T on the 23rd though and see what he recommends. 

Thanks for your thoughts - they've really helped me to decide what to do - off to order my drugs now!! 

Shellie
xx


----------



## MissyMinx

Hi ladies,

Just wanted to say congratulations to Ells on such a fabulous amount of embies - well done to you!  Sending you  

Hello and   to all the ladies, will try to get on later to do proper personals.

Em.x


----------



## Zeka

Well done Ells, how exciting having that many embies....I always get embie envy despite being happy for you of course!!


----------



## Bling1975

Ells, that's wonderful! I hope you get lots of beautiful blasts in a couple of days and then a BFP.


----------



## Louiseb26

Ells - Well done Hun...its the start of something beautiful to come   Sending big   to you xx


----------



## niccad

Ells - YIPPEE!!! I'm so so happy for you. That's such a huge huge number and means you'll get some beautiful blasts and even some frosties.... YEAH!!  

x


----------



## Newday

I am on nuticentre site apart from the turmeric capsules what else is worth having? fish oils? and if so which ones?
dawn


----------



## Ourturn

Ells - congrats that's an amazing amount of embies! 

Newday - best fish oils in my opinion are Zita West Vital dha. I use the superfood company to buy organic maca and spirulina caspsules.


----------



## agate

Newday said:


> I am on nuticentre site apart from the turmeric capsules what else is worth having? fish oils? and if so which ones?
> dawn


I like eskimo fish oils - not fishy tasting - gentle on stomach (they have them on nutricentre) - I wouldn't go overboard with a big dose though, especially if you are going to be on clexane - you don't want to overdo the blood thinning effect. From what I remember, if you are aiming for short term positive effects on NKa and TNFa then you want a fish oil with good quantities of EPA in it (like eskimo) and not just DHA like the Zita West ones (DHA is more the one you want to support the growth of baby's brain in pg) - but maybe sobroody has looked into that more than me?

You could look at resveratrol and pycynogenol (if they sell them in small quantities - but those are often pretty expensive) - and you'd probably want to stop at ET just to be safe.

Lalaby posted yesterday about their probiotics.


----------



## Ourturn

Agate - no I haven't, that's good to know. Should I mix up dha and eskimo or just go for eskimo then? So if I am taking baby aspirin (75mg) what does eskimo fish oils should I be taking? And if I add 40mg celexane into to the mix should I bring the dose down even further?


----------



## agate

Anna - I think when they tested different omega 3's against NKa - they found that DHA made no positive difference - only EPA did.  But adding in some DHA certainly shouldn't do you any harm - and if you got pg, at least your baby wouldn't be DHA deprived.  Eskimo has a 6:4 mix of EPA to DHA so if you were taking eskimo, maybe you should save the DHA tabs for when you get pg?

I did try to find out whether there was a given safe dose for fish oils to take alongside 40mg clexane.  I just couldn't find that info anywhere.  I was taking 3 eskimo tabs per day with 40mg clexane (before the clexane I was taking 6-9 per day) but since my bleed scares, I dropped it only 2 tabs when taking the 20mg clex and until I get my clotting checked tomorrow I've been sticking with a single tab alongside the 40mg.  However, most of the beneficial effects of fish oils on NKa and TNFa seem to only last for the first month or so of taking them... when they did studies looking at what happened to NKa after taking them for a year, NKa had either gone back to pretreatment levels or had even risen, so it feels right to me to drop them down now.

Sorry that this doesn't answer your question, but I did try really hard to find the answer.


----------



## Cath34

Saffa- that's great news, well done. 

Ells- what a bumper number of eggs and great fertilisation too.   for them to divide nicely now and hope you get plenty of frosties too. Well done you. Rest up now until ET.  

Hi to everyone else.

AFM- I'm fine apart from having quite low blood pressure and of course elevated NK's!! My CD 56 have flared up and never have done ever before! weird!! IVIG for me on Thurs so fingers crossed. Anyone know why Dr G stops IVIG at 31 weeks?


----------



## agate

Cath34 said:


> Anyone know why Dr G stops IVIG at 31 weeks?


I don't, but I'd v much like to if you find out. The clexane stops at 31 weeks as well - do you think its because the baby is virtually 'cooked' by then so isn't as sensitive to immune attack? Apparently some clinics inc Care stop their drips much earlier than that but I guess Dr G likes to err on the side of caution?

Don't you find though, every retest comes back with something abnormal? almost as though they are just throwing dice in the lab?


----------



## Saffa77

yes ladies i agree with you why do retests always come back with something else that was normal abnormal?  I am having my first NK retest on the 22nd of March hope there wont be other issues.... wonder why this happens?  If my NK comes back normal do you think i will need more Intralipids?

Sx


----------



## agate

honestly don't know saffa - Dr G will want to take into account all your previous results (TNFa, LAD etc) and not just the NK retest - and the risk of DQa matching etc etc.... I can't remember your prev results... but if there weren't multiple issues you probably wouldn't have needed immune tx in the first place... so If I had to gamble, I'd bet on you having another ILs.


----------



## Cath34

Well Dr G said no more IVIG after 31 weeks and I'm thinking its because it could have an adverse effect of some sort but he told me that I will retest after my last one which is about 10days after so 32/33 weeks and then results 34 ish weeks and depending on levels he said if high I may need to have an early c - section? I guess until the results come back I cants really think about it but all I know is my nks never seem to normal at retest. My overall 50:1 could be down to 14 but the individual markers as they say are high eg CD 19+ & 5+ are like 35!!! and now my CD 56 are quite high for the 1st tme!! Dr G says even though our overall 50:1 may be ok if our individual markers are high then it still poses a threat so my guess is mine will never be fine!!!!! I'm thinking he may suggest another retest of nks after 32/33 weeks just to see where we are at. He must do this with everyone do you think? Or am I just one of the difficult ones!! lol


----------



## bunagirl

Cor Blimey you lot can chat!!! 

Hello my lovelies hope you are all well.

Saffa - Fantastic news on the scan, that must have been so emotional!  

Ells - What a brilliant harvest!  Fingers crossed they keep dividing nicely and you have lots to freeze.   

AFM - I am now officially PUPO!    Got to Barcelona fine and transfer went really well.  Saw the Doc there and he was really pleased with how the embies had defrosted and how they were dividing and developing so much so that they reclassified them as Grade 'A's!
It was only when we left the clinic that the nightmare began!   Barcelona was experiencing the first snow they had seen in years, infact it was the worst snow in 20 years!!!  Anyway, we got a taxi to the bus station in order to get the bus to Girona airport, when we got there the snow was reeeeeeeally heavy.  So, we boarded the bus and after about half an hour delay we set off, about 10 mins in to the journey the bus driver did a U turn back to the bus station where we disembarked and were told that not only had the airport CLOSED!!!! until further notice but all roads leading to Girona were closed because of heavy snow!!!!

Well you can just imagine what was going through my head, thankfully DH has an Iphone so we were able to check the other Barcelona airports for flights/closures etc... we had to make a decision quick before the snow trapped us in the bus station.  Managed to get a taxi to Barcelona airport, which is the opposite of the city to Girona, where there was no snow at all!!!  In the end we got on a BA flight back to Heathrow (our car was at Luton ) so we had to wait around for a National express coach at the station there to take us to Luton Airport. Got home at 01.30 in the morning!  
So, as you can imagine i'm absolutely bloody knackered!!!
Oh, and as if that wasn't enough I woke up this morning to a lovely bout of THRUSH!!!! 
Does anyone know if it is ok to take canestan, spoke to Dr G this morning and he said it would be (vaginal pessarie only) so now have to take my progesterone pessarie   
Am really worried that this is going to affect my lovely embies    Have done some searching on internet and it seems to be ok but would be really grateful if anyone can reassure me.  
Sorry no more personals and for my rambling but once I have had a bit more sleep will catch up properly, promise.   

Love to everyone .
Bunagirl. XXXX


----------



## agate

bunagirl: there are several posts answered by pharmacists and midwives on the relevant sections of FF that say that canestan is safe to use vaginally during pg and TTC

Cath: from the little I can find on the web e.g., http://www.rialab.com/pdf/cair_ivig.pdf
and http://www.usmamed.com/02fertility/treatment2.htm
it suggests that the IVIG is stopped around the 6 months point because it isn't needed after that (studies don't seem to show that it makes a difference to the baby's survival after that because the baby should already be viable by then)- I don't THINK there can be serious concerns with its safety because there have been studies using it all the way through pregnancy for multiple sclerosis.

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## lalaby123

Ells that's got to be a record breaker surely? Wow well done 

Bunagirl congrats on being pupo   and what a mare you had in Spain!!! Re canestan I personally wouldn't risk it given what is at stake u can use som plain natural yoghurt or tea tree oil or calendula cream for som relief and take probiotics to combat the yeast overgrowth 

Dawn I vouch for Eskimo oils too they hav been a life saver for me as normally I am prone to catching things but ever since been on them despite being on immune suppressing drugs I haven't got a cold once... I take the lemon flavoured liquid form 5 ml a day ie one big teaspoon and that's all u need

Cath yes it is frustrating retesting and getting different results each time I was hoping the retesting would stop at 24 weeks but it sounds like not! Congrats on reaching 26 weeks


----------



## Diane72

Ells,

Wonderful news!!! Grow embies, grow 

             

I presume with this many they are going for blastocysts??

Diane x


----------



## agate

lalaby123 said:


> Re canestan I personally wouldn't risk it given what is at stake u can use som plain natural yoghurt or tea tree oil or calendula cream for som relief and take probiotics to combat the yeast overgrowth


Sorry to butt in lalaby - I hope its ok - I am naturally a very cautious person - but I definitely would NOT risk tea tree oil (or pretty much any other essential oil/aromatherapy oil - without it being extremely diluted and checked for safety). Most essential oils are not safe in pregnancy (unless they are carefully diluted - some are not safe regardless of dilution) and embryos are particularly sensitive to volatile oils so around stimms, 2ww and early pg, volatile oils are something you generally want to avoid - lots of embryologists advise avoiding perfumes around this time for that reason. Yoghurt and probiotics sound safe. I assume calendula cream would be safe because the calendula oil would be carefully diluted but I wouldn't like to say for sure and I would definitely check the packet.

To reassure bunagirl: from what I understand, thrush shouldn't cause you a flare of NK cells or anything else risky so if you want to take the gentle approach using yoghurt that seems fair enough, but equally I can't see any reason not to use vaginal canestan. If you are still feeling unsure this morning, I guess you could ask Dr G again. I hope things are ok with you this morning.


----------



## Pinpin

Ells - what an excellent result ! Surely you will have some excellent quality blasts and extra for the freezer. Look after yourself to ensure no OHSS x

Bunagirl - Congratulations on being PUPO with some fab quality embies   what a nightmare you had getting back   and then the thrush... I hope Agate's comments has reassured you and Dr G would never say it's ok to take canesten if he thought there was even a slight risk so don't worry hun and put your feet up and watch some funny movies (Dr T told me laughter was really good!)

Cath, Agate, Lalaby, Saffa - My DH and I had the conversation about until when we should be retesting and ivig with Dr G about 3 weeks ago when I had my latest ivig drip as my CD56 were still raised for the 3rd retest in a row (although on the decrease 20 then 21 and then 14.6). The CD56 was the inly marker to be high. Now Dr G called me on Friday to give me the results of my last retest and said everything is fine this time (not a single marker out of range) and my CD56 are now down to 8.6. He said it should now be ok to space the next couple of drips every 4 weeks and he is giving me an intralipid next thursday. He said he would normally stops retesting  at 31 weeks at the same time as clexane as from this point onwards provide all is well with the baby's growth he reckons the baby should be ready to be born and therefore no more need for drips and clexane.

Cath - what time are you at Dr G on thursday? I'll be there at 10am for my IL. I hope to see you there  

Love to all
Pinpin x


----------



## lalaby123

Agate-bunagirl - i think the recommended method for using teatree oil is a few drops in the bath to wash yourself in so its very diluted- but yes you are right many essential oils are to be avoided during pregnancy as their effect is unknown. I personally would take the safest route of yoghurt and calendula cream and probiotics but thats just me - I am sure Dr G wouldn't say its ok to take canestan if it wasn't but again I would err on the side of caution and use the cream rather than the pessaries to be further away from those precious embies.


----------



## lalaby123

Pinpin great news re your blood retests - and thanks for the info - glad you are doing well keep going - i just had a retest yesterday, i hope my levels will be good so can stick with intralipid


----------



## bunagirl

Agate, Lalaby and Pinpin!  Thank you so much for your responses they have really reasured me.  I did go for the Canestan single use pessarie (without applicator) as Dr G recommended and then some Yogurt last night.  It definately feels much better, but from now on I am going to stick to completely natural remedies (apart from the essential oils). Did a little research last night and according to the Pharmacists thread, and the 2ww thread it is completley safe to use.  Many women have done this through pregnancy and 2ww safely so I feel much better now. Just hope they are snuggling in nice and tight! 

Ells - How you doing honey?    

Once again thanks ladies for putting my mind at rest.
Love to you all.  
Bunagirl. XXXXX


----------



## Diane72

Bunagirl,

Just got online (I didn't get home from work until after 10 last night).

Don't assume because something is 'natural' it is safe. In fact, its much more likely to be the other way round. Drugs that are registered have to have clinical trials proving their clinical effectiveness and safety in different patient populations, aswell as having their factories and quality control audited. This is not the case for 'natural' remedies. 

Both herbal remedies and essential oils can be unsafe in pregnancy so you have to be careful. I led the team that formulated a Baby version (under 6 months) of Vaporub for European markets some years ago, the ingredients (aromatic or otherwise) we could use really were very limited.

Hope everyone else is well,

Diane x


----------



## bunagirl

Thanks Diane, will keep that in mind.  Am just going to stick to the yogurt, thats ok isn't it?
Bunagirl. x


----------



## niccad

Just got back from ARGC and have the new immune results. My TNFa is now 47.3!!! The first test last year it was 38 & went down to 26 with steroids, ivig, intralipids etc, but no humira. Looks like I'm now going to have to bite the bullet and do the humira. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Wierdly my NK's were low when they've been really high in the past. The only one slightly high is cd56 at 16.8 but again, this is the lowest mine has ever been. My cardiolipins came back high also so guess that's clexane ??!

Anyone know about dna fragmentation results? I picked them up from DrG's office today & am trying to understand them...

I was reallly hoping to cycle next month, but now have to face that I need to wait and get the humira done. Not sure why but I'm really scared of taking it...  

Bunagirl - I hope that the yogurt works. Can't believe what an awful day you had, however despite snow and nightmare flights and now thrush - you're PUPO!!!!!!!!!!! YIPPEE!!! In future years you'll be telling your daughter/son all about the nightmare day you had when you first held them  

Zeka - looked out for you this morning but must've missed you

Hello to all xx


----------



## Diane72

Hello,

Bunagirl, yes yoghurt is fine  

Niccad, yes looks like humira may be the way but if you can't take it due to latent TB, intralipids has been shown to benefit cytokines (Care reco'd 2 x intralipids prior to my next round rather than humira, even though I am doing humira through Gorgy). Interestingly I was the same in my January re-test my NKs were all in normal range (except CD3) and cytokines were high despite it being the other way round before.

If you want to post your DNA frag. results I can interpret them for you. Did you do aneploidy tooo?



Diane


----------



## Newday

you can get 1% cream which is Ok to use
Dawn


----------



## niccad

Diane - thanks so much
% moderate levels of DNA fragmentation  7.4%
% high levels of DNA fragmentation        10,1%

% spermatozoa with fragmented DNA      17.5%

% high DNA stainability (HDS)                9.5%

We did have aneploidy done but that doesn't seem to be mentioned? 
I had ILs for my last fresh cycle which only finished in Jan so I was kind of hoping that the benefits would still be in my system...  

xxx


----------



## ells

Afternoon ladies,   

Thank you for your messages   .

Bunagirl, blimey hun what a trip   .  What great news about the embies grades   .  I hope that you are taking things easy and the thrush is now under control fully.  What are your plans for the next few days?  

Niccard hunni, what a pain about your TNFa coming back high.  The humira should really sort that out for you.  The injections really arent that bad.  Everything will be fine this time hun.  Do you know when you will be starting again?

Thumbelina, how are you doing hunni?  I hope that you are coping with this 2ww and it hasnt sent you   yet.    

Diane, how are you feeling on the AB's now?  I hope that you dont have any of the horrible side effects.  How many days have you got left?  Do you have to go back to Greece and get checked over again once you hav finished the course?

Agate, how are you feeling hun?  You must have a another scan coming up?

Pinpin, great news on your retests.  I bet you are feeling the bubs move about now.  

Lalaby how are you doing?  I hope that your retest results are good, the IVIg is just sooooo expensive.  How is your bump coing along?

Sobroody when do you go away hun?  A nice bit of sun and relaxation sounds perfect.

Missyminx, how are you doing hun?

Louise how are you hunni?

Cath, are you feeling light headed with the low BP?  I hope you are taking things nice and easy.

Cozy how are you hun?  Hows that bump coming along?

Zeka how are you sweetie?

Newday, hope you are doing okay hunni       .

Hope everyone else is well and enjoying this glorious sunshine even if its a bit chilly out there.

AFM, I still am so pleased about our results.  The clinic have me booked in for a 3 dt tomorrow but we have spoken about blasts and they will let me know tomorrow morning how things are going.  The doctors have said that if we have some clear leaders that there wouldnt be any reason to go to blasts as they are better of back where they belong and not in the lab.  I really would like to get to blasts but they know what's best.  If all is go for tomorrow ET is booked for 1.50pm, I have my acu booked before and after so should be nice and chilled.  On the OHSS I feel a lot better today, still a bit bloated but went for a gentle walk this morning which made me feel sooooo much better.  The only thing I have had is a bit of nausea I think from the cabergaline (SP) but feel okay once I have eaten/had a drink.

Hope everyone has a lovely afternoon.

Ells


----------



## Louiseb26

Ells - Your doing sooo well lovely.Will be thinking of you tomorrow hun...Good luck


----------



## agate

thanks ells - scan next week. 

your progress seems fab.  good luck for ET - we got pg with day 3s, not blasts.  hope you can have a quiet and calm time for your 2ww.

obviously you're doing well to avoid OHSS - but it can get more of a risk when you get implantation because of rising HCG - so oodles of milk is pretty necessary all through 2ww - for the fluid and the protein (or loads of water and, say, chicken if you are avoiding dairy) - to help protect your body if you do get OHSS.

good luck for tomorrow.


----------



## ells

Thanks ladies.

Louise I am amazed how it has all gone, I really wasnt expecting much after our last cycle so have been quite   .  Keeping up my PMA     and     very hard that this will be our turn.

Agate, thanks hun   .  I bet you cant wait to see your little one again.  I havent given up dairy just cut right down on bread, so will be quite happy drinking more milk.  

Hope everyone else is okay.

Ells


----------



## Cath34

Ells, best of luck for tomorrow hun, sounds like all is going really well. I had acupuncture before and after too but the 2 nd time I had ET I went across the road to the london acupuncture clinic and not zita west. They were great and much cheaper too. Where are you going?
My low bp is a pain as I cant keep going without resting alot, I only have short sharp bursts of energy and then I'm as weak as a kitten. Ive got to learn to slow down I guess.


Pinpin, I'm not actually going to Dr G for IVIG. I live in Wales and haven't seen Dr G since my 6 week hb scan. Ive managed to get it on NHS at my local hospital, it was a miracle honestly.
I am 27 weeks today and after tomorrows IVIG I'll only have 1 left. (I hope)

Agate- I think you mentioned about stopping the clexane around 31 weeks? Dr G has told me I have to keep on it until 6 weeks after giving birth as this is the most likely time to clot? Maybe its because I'm MTHFR Homozygous + I dont really know, but I'm to reduce to 40mg at 31 weeks!


----------



## agate

Cath34 said:


> Agate- I think you mentioned about stopping the clexane around 31 weeks? Dr G has told me I have to keep on it until 6 weeks after giving birth as this is the most likely time to clot? Maybe its because I'm MTHFR Homozygous + I dont really know, but I'm to reduce to 40mg at 31 weeks!


I guess it must be - I'm only MTHFR hetero. Have you checked with your NHS ob? Only mine made a big fuss about how he wouldn't be happy for me to be on it around the due date?


----------



## Diane72

Niccad, 

Your DH's DNA fragmentation is not too bad at 17.5% but if you want to improve it more there is antioxidant called Menevit that CARE reco. for fragmentation that has had positive clinical trials. I have cut & paste this from the net so you know the thresholds:

-- A 'normal' sample has less then 15% of the sperm with DNA damage. 
-- Men with poor fertility potential have greater then 30% of their sperm damaged. 
-- A DFI Between 16% and 29% is considered good to fair fertility potential but becomes poorer as it approaches 27%. 


As a benchmark, my DH had a level of 35% (i.e. over the 30% threshold) and I know others on ff that have had 60%. 

Re: the aneploidy result, we didn't get this until later when we saw Gorgy. For it the threshold is 3%, but things like CGH can help select viable embies if for some reason it is an issue (which I  hope it isn't   )

Ells, good luck with the transfer!! The antibiotics are fine, I have 9 more days to go. Then you have to wait at least 6 weeks before re-testing. I can post the sample to Serum so no need to go back to Greece (and actually Gorgy can also arrange the test now aswell).

Agate, good luck with the scan next week!

Hugs to everyone else,

Diane x


----------



## Zeka

Niccad - shame I missed you yesterday. I was in and out quite early and even managed to get to work on time!


----------



## lalaby123

Ells thinking of u today xxx

niccad sorry about rising tnf   how frustrating 

AFM ladies and my anamoly scan both babies measurements all ok and no sign of the hematoma so no problems reported thankgod ...It turned out I won't hav a dolly to dress in girly clothes sadly but hopefully two doting mummys boys in the future as two cute willies were spotted


----------



## Saffa77

Ells - good luck

Lalaby- wow 2 boys!!! how exciting bet you so glad the scan went ok.  My next worry now is for my 8 week one!!! Hope everything is ok.  Havent had symptoms maybe a bit more hungry but no sickness etc or tiredness - do feel a bit more lazy.

Sx


----------



## Diane72

Lalaby,

Wonderful news!! 2 boys    

I'm so pleased for you!!

Diane x


----------



## niccad

Lalaby - 2 boys!!! Many congratulations... it must have been so wonderful seeing the scans xxx

Diane - thanks so much for the info - I really appreciate it. 

xx


----------



## ells

Hi ladies,

lalaby fab news for you two beautigul boys.  Great news that there is no sign of the haematoma hun, you must be starting to relax and enjoy things more now.  

Diane, glad to hear the AB's arent too bad.  Its good that you dont have to go back to Greece and that Dr G can help you out.  Keeping everything crossed that is all clear and you will be good to go hunni   . 

Saffa, have you got a date for your 8 week scan?  It cant be too long to wait now.

Cath, the low BP is not good.  You must take it easy hunni.  Have they suggested doing anything to help?  I have my acu locally with a Chinese lady here in Southampton - she has had lots and lots of success with IVF and IF issues - we are having our cycle at our local clinic this time.  I do really enjoy the acu even though it can hurt   .  

Agate, not long then until your next scan  I bet you cant wait.  Hope they see no haematoma for you aswell.  

Bunagirl   how are you doing hunni?  How's the thrush, has it gone?  Hope that  you are chilling and relaxing now.

Hi to everyone else, thank you for your wishes for today    but we are not having ET today, we are having it Saturday morning instead as we are going to Blaaaaaaasts   .  I nearly died of fright when the embryologist phoned this morning as I wasnt expecting a call   but she said that we have 11 embies that are all excellent, very good, good and 2 that are fair and they are very happy with how they are doing and thinks going to blast will be good as they are all pretty close together   .  Cant believe it, we have never got this far before .  I was shaking sooo much after the call that it took me a few minutes to be able to ring DH   . Still     very hard that everything goes well and we get some frosties as well.  

Hope everyone has a good day,   ,

Ells


----------



## Louiseb26

Ells - It just keeps on getting better...wishing you loads of luck for Sat lovely 

Lalaby - What wonderful news...what a magical moment for you  

 to everyone

Lou xx


----------



## niccad

Ells - such great news!!! 11 looking good is fantastic! You'll have enough to make a football team    I really have a good feeling about you this cycle - you must be sooooo happy. YIPPEE!!!


----------



## Saffa77

Ells - it just gets better!!  Good luck for Saturday.

I have booked my scan for the 24th I will be 8.5 weeks (hopefully eeeeeek)

Sx


----------



## Desi

Dear All,

Sorry to barge in, I have been following all of you for some time now and I can say I have learned more from all of you in the last weeks than since 10 years of all fertility treatments and misery I had to face. Am very new here so sincere apologies if I do not know exactly how it all works on a forum.... . I am sincerely happy for all of you who are pregnant and am  for all of the rest who are trying so hard! Unbelievable what we all have to go through and how strong we women are!!!

After all those years of hearing: it is just bad luck..... you were lucky once (we have 1 daughter via IVF and had 2 ectopic natural pregnancies after her and then 6 failed IVF attempts) so you will be lucky again, I decided last January it was time for a final change before we continue at all! Dr B's book opened my eyes!
Have had my blood tested with Dr. G and these are my results:

DH      0501, 0501      ( 4.1, 4.1)
Me      0102, 0301      (1.2, 3.1)

NK Assay (% killed) panel
50:1                              18.4        10-40
25:1                              11.5        5-30
12.5:1                            6.1          3-20

IgG conc 12.5 50:1 **                  17.1 
IgG conc 12.5 25:1 **                  12.8 
IgG conc 6.25 50:1 **                  18.3 
IgG conc 6.25 25:1 **                  12.5

% CD3                                        81.5        60 - 85
% CD19                                        5.7        2 - 12
% CD56                                      10.2        2 – 12
% of CD19+ cells, CD5+              * 10.5        5 – 10


Leukocyte Antibody Detection

Flowcytometry        negative
(T-cells) IgM+        1.6        %
(T-cells) IgG+        1.0        %

(B-cells) IgM+        52.6        %
(B-cells) IgG+        26.3        %



TH1:TH2 Intracellular cytokine ratios
TNF-a-IL-10 (CD3+CD4+)  * 47.2      ratio      13.2 – 30.6
IFN-g-IL-10 (CD3+CD4+)      17.0      ratio      5.8 – 20.5

NK Assay w/intralipid

50 :1 w/intralipid 1.5 mg/ml      6.2      %
25 :1 w/intralipid 1.5 mg/ml      1.8      %

From earlier tests done I already knew:

MTHFR                                          positive heterozygous C677T
Factor V Leiden                              positive heterozygous

I would appreciate to get any feedback on these results so I am little prepared of what is probably going to come. 
Last IVF attempt only I already had low molecular heparine and cardio aspirine 100mg and am on Vit B6 50mg and folic acid 5mg.
Cross checking the blood results above with the book of Dr. B does not really help me.

I am slightly worried that my results might have been influenced by a cold and very sore throat I had straight the next days after the blood tests. I also have endometriosis stage IV.

How do you girls feel when you see my results? Am I a lost case
Could you explain me some things in short?

Thanking you all in advance for your advice and knowledge.

Please all hang in there and I will keep my fingers crossed for all of you  

       

Desi.
XXX


----------



## agate

DH      0501, 0501      ( 4.1, 4.1)
Me       0102, 0301      (1.2, 3.1)  no matches with your DH - good!

NK Assay (% killed) panel
50:1                               18.4         10-40  (your NK cells kill off more of the specimen cells than ideal - you'd like them to kill off less than 15% of the sample - you are likely to be offered steroids e.g., prednisolone and also IVIG and/or Intralipid drips)
25:1                               11.5         5-30
12.5:1                            6.1          3-20

IgG conc 12.5 50:1 **                  17.1 (in the test tube, adding IVIG seems to reduce your NK a little - but the test tube doesn't always predict what happens in the body)
IgG conc 12.5 25:1 **                  12.8 
IgG conc 6.25 50:1 **                  18.3 
IgG conc 6.25 25:1 **                  12.5

% CD3                                        81.5         60 - 85 (ok)
% CD19                                        5.7         2 - 12 (ok)
% CD56                                       10.2         2 – 12 (you have normal numbers of NK cells)
% of CD19+ cells, CD5+               * 10.5         5 – 10 (slightly elevated CD19+5+ B cells - sometimes associated with autoimmune activity - sometimes associated with anti-hormonal antibodies e.g,. antiprogesterone, antiestrogen - you will probably end up being put on extra progesterone and maybe extra estrogen) 


Leukocyte Antibody Detection

Flowcytometry         negative
(T-cells) IgM+         1.6         %
(T-cells) IgG+         1.0         %
(B-cells) IgM+         52.6         %
(B-cells) IgG+         26.3         % (you'd like this to be over 30 and preferably over 50 - it means your blood doesn't have as many antibodies to your DH's cells as you'd like - these antibodies are supposed to protect an implanting embryo/baby in the uterus because half the baby's genetic material will come from your DH - you will probably be suggested to have LIT)



TH1:TH2 Intracellular cytokine ratios
TNF-a-IL-10 (CD3+CD4+)   * 47.2      ratio      13.2 – 30.6  (this is pretty high - you will probably be recommended to have at least one course of humira to suppress your TNFalpha - 2 shots 2 weeks apart, then wait 2-3 weeks before retesting to see if you need a 2nd course before you start to cycle - you'd need to get your TB status checked before you can use humira to make sure you don't have latent TB that could be reactivated)
IFN-g-IL-10 (CD3+CD4+)      17.0      ratio      5.8 – 20.5

NK Assay w/intralipid

50 :1 w/intralipid 1.5 mg/ml      6.2      % (in the lab, intralipid seems to suppress your NKactivity quite well)
25 :1 w/intralipid 1.5 mg/ml      1.8      %

From earlier tests done I already knew:

MTHFR                                           positive heterozygous C677T (you should be taking 400mcg of folic acid - check with Dr G, but 5mg might not be necessary - and probably not to be taken all the time)
Factor V Leiden                               positive heterozygous (you'll probably be recommended to have clexane and aspirin)

A cold is a virus, so in theory, it could result in increased NKactivity - you'd need to speak to Dr G and see whether you should retest - but given your endometriosis, I THINK it is pretty likely that you would have elevated NKa.

I am sure there are ladies with numbers like yours who have been treated by Dr G and are pg now.

Hope this helps - hope you get all the answers you need from your follow up with Dr G  - don't forget to make sure you understand what days of your cycle (and beforehand) you take each drug/treatment - that is often very confusing.


----------



## bunagirl

Hi ladies   How are we this evening?

Ells - Amazing news re your embies!!!   I bet you still cant get your head around that one!  Keeping everything crossed that they continue to progress so well.       

Desi - Welcome!  Think our Guru Agate has given you the best advice on your test results.

Lalaby - Two little boys!  How lovely, and great that all is looking well on your scan.  

Saffa - Lucky you not having any symptoms, I know that some ladies don't have any in the first tri but it would probably reassuring if there were some.  

Hello to Niccad, Louise26, Diane 72, Agate, Newday, Pinpin and everyone else who is reading. 

AFM - Well, have finally recovered from nightmare journey home on Monday, surprisingly though I managed to remain pretty calm through it all, was just glad that it the snow didn't come 24 hrs earlier as we would never have made it to the clinic!  
Went straight back to work on Tuesday which i'm glad about really as I would be going stir crazy at home, work isn't stressfull at the moment and its certainly not physical.  Its now 3dpt and I cant say I am feeling any different yet, although my (.)(.)'s have felt slightly tender today(probably down to progesterone), feel a little tired (probably down to progesterone) just feeling the slightest hint of AF pains, wouldn't know they were there if I didn't think about it ( probably down to progesterone).  Think the thrush has finally gone, been drinking loads of water and using yogurt so I think its done the trick.  
Off to Scotland tomorrow afternoon to spend the weekend with MIL so that should also keep my mind off things so probably wont have access to a computer til Monday.
Hope you all have a lovely weekend!
Much love Bunagirl. xxxxxx

P.S. Think I have also been feeling the tiniest of twinges in my ovaries as well, dont know what that means, but its probably down to one of the many cocktail of drugs that I'm taking!!!


----------



## Toffee Girl

Hello All

Just wanted to say a quick hello to everyone - it's been a few pages since I last posted just after ET!  I am totally amazed at how many of you are now pg since I first started posting which was about a year ago.  It is still heartening to see so many people triumph against the old immune system!

Sadly, after our rather interesting ET interrupted by the fire alarm at London Women's Clinic, we have yet another BFN (our 8th).  However, Diane has been an angel and led me to the Serum thread and the wonderful Dr Penny Abatzi who may, it seems, know why my womb lining looks like a strawberry. 

So I am off to Athens once again next week, but this time for a hysteroscopy, D&C and Dr Penny's rather intereting chlamydial DNA test.

Love and luck to all who are pg and of course to those who like me are ever hopeful  

Take care

Toffee xx


----------



## deegirl

Hi girls just back from Athens last night after my first LIT, all went smoothly.

Ells - have been reading up on your progress....am so pleased for you!!!  You've got a great crop of embies!  Thinking about you hun x

Lalaby - congrats on the scan showing 2 boys!  You are going to have your hands full!!!

Saffa - great news about your scan, hope all continues to go well and that you begin to relax.

Diane - hope that the antibiotics are going well and that you aren't too tired on them.

Hi to everyone else.
Dee x


----------



## ells

Toffeegirl   so sorry to hear your news.  I hope that Dr Penny can sort out your issues hunni and you will be posting your BFP on your next cycle    .

Dee - thanks hunni.  Glad to hear that your first LIT went well lovely.  

Bunagirl, yes I cant get my head around it.  I was sooooooooo anxious this morning I just couldnt get my heart to slow down.  Good that work is okay and not stressful.  I am dreading the symptom spotting, you try not too but you just cant help it   .  Sounded nice and positive though hun.  Enjoy your weekend away, hope your MIL will be looking after you   .

Evening everyone.

Ells


----------



## Diane72

Hello All  

Ells,     11 embies and going to blasts- Great!

Deegirl, glad you're back safe & sound from the LIT

Toffee, I'm really hoping Penny is the answer to our issues   Good luck!!!! 

Bunagirl, try take it easy. Enjoy Scotland!!

Desi, welcome! I think agate has done a thorough job in explaining your results.

Hugs to everyone else  

My NHS laparoscopy is on Monday and I just found out they are announcing our new structure/potential redundancies at work on Tuesday and we're meant to cancel all meetings to attend. Can't really see that I would be well enough to drive 2-2.5hrs that it takes me to work and back- has anyone else had a laparoscopy? How long was it until you felt you could drive again?

Diane x


----------



## mag108

Toffeegirl. Very sorry to hear your news. I really hope you get some answers in Athens.
X

Diane: I had a laproscopy,  3yrs ago. It was diagnostic and included the dye test. 
Had it on a Friday morning. After it was kept in all day because of low blood pressure. Couldnt do alot on Saturday, felt ok lying down but not sitting up. Sunday tried to do a very short car journey (not driving) and felt very uncomfortable sitting. Abdomen felt uncomfortable being contracted, ok flat.
Monday off work still. Tues back in work, felt ok sitting.

They warn of pains in the shoulders/chest from being pumped with air during the procedure.

Its done under a general anaesthetic so even the day after you are likely to feel out of it. I really think you should go on Tuesday. Not with a drive that long and I am sure they wouldnt advise it at the hospital. I think I was signed off for a week in fact (though I was ok after 4 days).

(ps my blood stopped flowing so no chlam test for me)
x


----------



## mag108

DIANE: WHAT THAT SHOULD READ IS I REALLY THINK YOU SHOUDNT GO ON TUES, YOU WILL REALLY NOT FEEL UP TO IT AT ALL


----------



## Diane72

Thanks Mag,

That's what I thought, especially as when I did my pre-op they said they would do 'ablation' if needed while there.

Diane

P.S. How annoying about the AF


----------



## Desi

Dear Agate,

Thank you ever so much for your unbelievable quick reply.
Very helpful, you are a darling!!!  

Have been preparing my question list for Dr. G and hope to have all of them answered.
Will keep you informed.

Upon preparing my question list I was wondering if you (or the other sweet ladies out here) could help with some more of my questions with all your experiences?

Since a couple of weeks I am using:
Green tea, pomegranate juice, probiotics, Omega-3 fish oil, Vit C and E.
No more alcohol.
If there is anything else you could advise, I would love to find out!

To be able to get the green light to start my next IVF cycle I probably need to get a karyotyping blood test done (procedure of the hospital, another €1250....). Do you know what else they can find on such a test what was not found already in the level 1 and 2 tests? We are also blessed with a healthy daughter, so I wonder what they think they could find which might be of help or as an explanation why it does not seem to work anymore since?

I guess a lot of re-testing needs to be done after the LIT and possible treatment with Humira to see the results.
Does this mean you need to pay the total costs for those tests over and over again?
How do you do this? Via Dr. G all the time, or direct with USA or with TDL?

Does Dr G. charge £90 each time you ask him a question, what is your experience with this?

Have you heard of a chlamydia test which Dr. G is offering recently, which is send to Greece/Athens? It is a test of the menstrual blood. According to him a lot of ladies have negative tests, but when they do this test it does show positive. You are then treated with antibiotics for a couple of weeks.

Well I hope I do not get a reply as quick from you again as this afternoon, I hope you are sleeping by now!

Night, night everybody, sleep tight do not let the bedbugs bite! 

Desi.
Xxxx


----------



## Desi

Back again, sorry did not see that Toffee Girl was actually mentioning the chlamydia test in Greece in her email as well.
I guess this is exactly the same test as Dr. G is talking about?

Thanks Diane72 and Bumagirl for your warm welcomes!

Desi.
Xxx


----------



## DippyGirl

Sorry been lurking, ne tip to share with Diane regards the laproscopy.  I had one about 4 years ago, as Mag said I wouldn't go to work on the Tuesday... best advice I got was to take charcoal tabs for a few days afterwards.  They pump you full of gas (CO2) to access organs/get good view during the procedure and it is the gas that causes discomfort afterwards.  

The charloal tabs help to absorb the gas faster than naturally but doesn't really interact any other way (take away from meds though cos absorbs everything say meds morning/charloal night).  

Should be able to buy in boots.

Good luck! D x


----------



## lalaby123

Toffee girl - sooooooo sorry to hear your news. After all that fiasco I really thought you would get a BFP. Glad you are already back on your feet and planning the next move. Girls like you and Diane should be knighted for your strength. If its any consolation, I met a girl at my aquanatal class who is pregnant with twins also thanks to Penny and she said she was wonderful and she wishes she could bring her back home with her!

Ells - wow BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAST well done you, what are you going to do with all the spare embryos You will have a freezerfull!

Desi - welcome and well done for getting your immunes checked as not many people get to this point. Agate has beautifully explained your results already. To summarise I think your main issue is your TNF-alpha otherwise known as Cytokines or TH1:TH2 ratio which is high. It should be under 30 and yours is in the 40s. This means your body is in quite an inflammatory state which corresponds with your endometriosis and is not condusive to holding on to a growing embryo. Humira is the treatment for this and although it sounds scary at first most women on this thread have had it and no one has had any major problems with it. Your NKs don't seem bad at all. Your NK activity is slightly higher than it should be but not too bad and the individual NKs are all ok. Your LAD is a little low which I am surprised given you have been pregnant before. Perhaps you can ask Dr G about this. 

Sounds like you are taking all the right supplements. 

Regarding retesting, yes you do have to pay again but not as much as the first time obviously as you are only doing individual tests. The killer when you get pregnant is having to repeat your NK tests every month which is #325  

As for Dr G and his consults, if you have the odd question you can call him and he won't charge you but if you have several questions it is only fair to make an appointment for a phone consult to get all your questions answered. Given most of us are not cycling with him this is the least we can pay him for his advice. However with your first few consults, you may have questions afterwards which you feel didn't get answered in that case I would call back and ask them and he won't charge you. He does not explain things unless you ask him so you need to be armed with questions. 

Good luck with your consultation and I hope your next cycle will be a successful one


----------



## agate

Toffee: I am so very, very sorry. Its not fair. Hopefully the C test will be the answer and then everything will go like clockwork.



Desi said:


> Since a couple of weeks I am using:
> Green tea, pomegranate juice, probiotics, Omega-3 fish oil, Vit C and E.
> No more alcohol.
> If there is anything else you could advise, I would love to find out!
> 
> To be able to get the green light to start my next IVF cycle I probably need to get a karyotyping blood test done (procedure of the hospital, another €1250....). Do you know what else they can find on such a test what was not found already in the level 1 and 2 tests? We are also blessed with a healthy daughter, so I wonder what they think they could find which might be of help or as an explanation why it does not seem to work anymore since?
> 
> I guess a lot of re-testing needs to be done after the LIT and possible treatment with Humira to see the results.
> Does this mean you need to pay the total costs for those tests over and over again?
> How do you do this? Via Dr. G all the time, or direct with USA or with TDL?
> 
> Does Dr G. charge £90 each time you ask him a question, what is your experience with this?
> 
> Have you heard of a chlamydia test which Dr. G is offering recently, which is send to Greece/Athens? It is a test of the menstrual blood. According to him a lot of ladies have negative tests, but when they do this test it does show positive. You are then treated with antibiotics for a couple of weeks.


Desi - you could also try tumeric/curcumin tablets for the TNFa - give up choc and try and really cut down on other saturated fats (pastry, sausages, cakes, biscuits etc) to try and moderate your TNFa. Resveratrol and pycnogenol are supposed to be helpful - but you'd maybe want to stop those for 2ww onwards - because they haven't been safety tested for pg.

I think the other ladies have probably told you enough about the C test already?

About the consultation charge, I think it really depends on whether it is a just a single quick question without needing to review your notes or whether he has to get your notes out and review them in order to have a proper discussion with you and give you advice - but it has seemed slightly random to me.

The retests you tend to need are not all of them: you'd check your cytokines to make sure your humira has worked, your LAD to check whether your LIT has worked - so hopefully only 1 retest for each of those, if the treatment has worked.... but more if you have to repeat humira/LIT. LAD is £200. I don't know how much cytokines are. The test that does get repeated more often (if you get pg) is the NK assay - unfortunately its £325. When you get pg, you'd probably have another drip (IVIG or ILs) straight away, and a 2nd one when you've had your first scan. 7-10 days after that, you'd probably retest your NKa. If that test is ok... you might be able to stop there, if its not... then you might get into a loop of having another drip and another retest every few weeks for up to 31 weeks... if your retests keep showing high levels but by that stage, you kind of feel you'd do anything to keep the LO's heart beating... so somehow you find the money.... if you see what I mean?

London based ladies tend to have their drips at Dr G's office (its quite nice to do that to sit and chat with other ladies in the drip room - make sure you take snacks - don't have drips on an empty stomach - and wear warm clothes - drips make you chilly), some of us who live further away get a prescription from Dr G and have them done at home using a nursing service - Healthcare at Home.

Where are you based, Desi? Why do I think you are in france? Did you say that somewhere or am I just confused.

Normally for retests, Dr G arranges them by filling out a form for TDL (you pay Dr G), then you either go to TDL to have the blood drawn (mon-wed am only) or Dr G arranges for you to have the tubes posted to you by TDL, you get the blood drawn (monday or tuesday only) and post them back to TDL on overnight before 9am recorded delivery, then they fedex them to RFU. Watch out for bank holidays in UK or US which interrupt the normal timetable. Alternatively, you can sort them out direct with RFU Chicago and fedex them yourself - but then you have to sort out the tubes and the fedex. I don't know whether it will be any cheaper that way or how put out Dr G would be when you need to consult with him to decide what to do about the results/need a prescription for a drip for them. I guess if you have to pay him £90 to go through them then he'd be ok with it?

I have a feeling that karyotyping was £400 via Dr G - maybe you could phone TDL (his price will be similar to theirs - he doesn't put much of a mark up on tests). Karyotyping looks for gross anomalies in your and your DH's chromosomes - but, I'm not sure what it could show if you have already had a healthy child together - maybe something that could affect some offspring but not others? something that affects boys but not girls? Maybe someone else will know. Otherwise I guess you have to ask your clinic.

hope this helps

Ells: good luck for tomorrow. hope you get lovely blasts... but maybe prepare yourself that there are often fewer frosties when you go for blasts...just because not all embryos have the capability to get that far (even ones that look great on day 3)... so sometimes the whole point of going for blasts is to find out the ones that can go all the way to pg.

Diane: hope the lap goes smoothly

Bunagirl: hope you are resting

AFM: been feeling really achey... even my fingers and wrists hurt for typing...ouch. worrying that its an immune flare... hoping its just going to turn into a cold (I don't get colds! bah!)... already worrying about next week's 20 week scan. Please let it be ok.

Lalaby: Hi... was just typing this when you posted... I think we're saying more or less the same things to Desi.


----------



## lalaby123

Agate - I remembered that I too felt joint pains for a while after I came off the steroids, I wonder if your inflammatory response has anything to do with that? I hope its nothing serious and just the effect of the hormones on your body. I am still very achey but I think now its just from the relaxin. Good luck with the 20 week scan. It is very exciting as you will see the babies are sooo much bigger than your last scan and you wonder how on earth have they fitted inside you! I am tempted to have another private anomaly scan. I don't know why but i feel like I want to be double sure that everything is alright. It all seemed very casual at my NHS scan. Then again i might not.....


----------



## agate

Lalaby: yes, maybe... I've had 2 x IVIG since i reduced the steroids so that could have been keeping things at bay, and maybe the IVIG has worn off now? Also have dropped pessaries which are anti-inflammatory too. waiting for Dr G to phone me back so I can ask. Can't tell if yesterday's ILs has made any difference, because I did cave in and take paracetamol... although it doesn't hurt to type today... not much anyway.

When do the NHS give you another scan?  If its ages, maybe you could have a private one in between?  The private scan I had last week was really thorough, really nice experience... but maybe the US was just a really nice lady.  The NHS ones do seem a bit rushed and impersonal.  Still can't feel baby.  Can you?  Had spiky sharp pains yesterday, but sure that can't be it.


----------



## mag108

Agate:
 for your 20 wk scan. Take it easy for now.

Diane: Laproscopy is an operation (although minor), they so there is stitching an bruising internally and externally so you will be in some pain though not for more that a few days.

x


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

Mag, Dippy, thanks for the tips. I'm a bit worried about the interaction of the charcoal tabs. with my antibiotics though so might just see how I feel, but know about them for back-up.

Desi, I think you got some pretty comprehensive answers from Agate and Lalaby. You can read more about the C test here:
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=190643.0
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=213413.0

I only did it after hearing about it from a ff friend who had had 7 failed cycles and then she went to Serum and tested positive despite having always tested negative in the Netherlands. After 25 days on antibiotics she had another cycle and is now in the third trimester of her pregnancy. I bit the bullet and went out to see Penny at Serum while doing my LIT. After 5 miscarriages (7 babies lost) I discovered I was also positive despite testing negatively in the UK. I am now on Day 18 of 25 days of antibiotics and then will re-test. I have told Mr. Gorgy of the outcome by phone, but haven't yet had an appointment with him and shared the treatment I'm on, but it is more than a couple of weeks of doxycycline. So if anyone does test positive do let me know and I can make sure I make Dr. Gorgy aware of how Greece is treating this very resistant 'hidden C'.

Agate, feeling concerned for you that you could be having an inflammatory response-you should try get a hold of Gorgy today before he goes on holiday. If you do have some kind of residual infection it may be continuing to kick off inflammation that you need ongoing more comprehensive support to block.

Lalaby, I don't blame you for wanting to double-check, we fight so hard to get there we want to do everything we can to make sure everything is OK.

Hugs to everyone else,

Diane x


----------



## 3babies

Hi Diane, not long left to go on the antibiotics for you both ah (hopefully) It took us 3 separate lots of meds to get rid 
Dr. Gorgy knows a lot about this method of testing, i remember last year when he was in Athens & met Penny so they are in contact.
I'm sure he also does this method of PCR testing & sends the sample off to Athens to be analysed.

Regarding the Lap, hope all goes to plan. I was fine after the op ( better than i expected ) But i never drove for about a wk as i was scared of causing damage. I never had any shoulder or neck pain afterwards luckily but drank peppermint tea for trapped wind.
I waited at least a month b4 i started up yoga again.

You'll be fine 

2babies x


----------



## Desi

Hi Girls,

Thanks all for the tips! Will read the threads later.

Not a lot of time, need to run, but just to share some quick info with you.

Dr. G hopes to be ready early/mid April for LIT, costs probably less than Dr. A, but more than Athens.
I guess he is waiting with confirming a definate start date until he is back from hols.

C test can be done via Dr. G for £150 or via Serum direct for €200, depending on the exchange rate it is probably cheaper via Dr. G.
He sends the test to you, you send it to Athens.

Take good care of yourselves!
Until later....

Desi.
Xxx


----------



## Desi

Oh yes Agate, forgot to say something to you in my previous post:

I am almost sure you will feel the baby already, but you just do not know yet what to feel.
It could feel like a little butterfly touching the inside of your belly.
Or imagine a soft stroke of a finger on the outside of your belly, but then from inside.
Hope I am making sense.
This is how I remember the first movements of my daughter.
Once I really knew it was her, I recognised that I had felt that sensation before, but then did not realise what it was.  

You will feel so thrilled once you can feel your little girl!!!

Take good care of yourself.

Until later....

Desi.
Xxx


----------



## Ourturn

Desi - re kayotyping, dh and I had this test done as part of the recurrent miscarriage investigation. From what I understand either one of you could have a problem (even though you are ok) which means that any child you create together may have a higher probablity of having a chormosonal condition. This test though up something for the dh of a lady I know and they gave her some pretty bleak stats (can't nb the details). Anyway she has had a healthy boy after 5 miscarriages. 

Toffee - I am so sorry. I know how sould destroying it it    

 to everyone that needs them

Sent of my sample for the yuk test to athens today. Risked it and sent it via Royal Mail Express delivery, as I have a feeling they may not have enough blood to sample. I only had one day of flow (sorry tmi) and then af has been on and off up until Thursday. As I probably won't have another af for 3 months I really wanted to try and get the test done. If there is a problem will get me consultant to take a uterine sample when I have my hysteroscopy at some point over the next few week. 

Anna x


----------



## ratsy

Hi sobroody 

how much did royal mail charge you if you dont mind me asking i used fedex and it was £42 

R xx


----------



## Ourturn

Ratsy - it was around £6 and gets there in 2 working days! Other ladies have sent it via normal mail before and its been fine so I figured I would risk it. I can track it on line too.


----------



## ratsy

sobroody 

I cant believe that i paid £42  look at the diference     never mind il know for next time 

R xx


----------



## lalaby123

Agate- I can't feel movements either :-( i just feel sharp digging pains, no butterfly or soft touch feelings this end ...I told my OB she said by 24 weeks I will feel it. I hope you get to speak to Gorgy about your pains but glad they are better today. 

ladies this C-test sounds very interesting....I am glad it is a new test being offered by Dr G, he really is covering all grounds isn't he

Diane - I too had lap last year, too sore afterwards to go to work, I did get the shoulder pain and had peppermint tea to help, you heal quickly though but it takes a few days.


----------



## Desi

Hi Girls!

Maybe worth to share this info with you:
I spoke to Greece today about the C test and the lady on the phone said that "quantity" did not matter.
She also said the sample did not have to be sent by refrigerated mail, but maybe you all knew this already.

Need to ask you another question:
On advise of our dear Agate I bought Curcuma Longa today, it is 600mg per capsule.
It says: 95% curcuminoids. Take 2 capsules per day.
Do you agree with this? How much do you usually take per day and when?

I found some interesting info on internet (I hope the link will work, by the way it is not the brand I bought):
http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:62OteRTX8BAJ:www.treeofwellness.com/curcuma/curcuma.html+curcuma+capsules&cd=6&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=nl

This effect slightly worries me. I am going to need Intralipids, which are fats for the blood. It says that curcuma reduces lipids, fats in the blood. Does this mean it is better not to take curcumin during Ils? What are your experiences?

Sleep tight for later!

Desi.
Xxx

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## Diane72

Desi,

I can't advise about dosage of the curcuma longa, but I can give info. on lipids.

The lipids that they are referring to are 'bad lipids' like LDL-cholesterol. Bad cholesterol is oxidised and forms plaques in you arteries, furring them up which can lead to heart-attacks and strokes. So as you would guess, reducing these are good. 

When you read the link, they also refer to it raising 'good cholesterol' (HDL-cholesterol), good cholesterol is like the binmen that come around and take your bad cholesterol back to the liver to get rid of it. Interestingly, there is some evidence HDL-C may also have anti-oxidation properties (if your bad cholesterol is prevented from being oxidised it won't get laid down as plaques in your arteries).

Intralipids are composed of 'good lipids', not bad lipids so I don't think there would be an issue.

Lalaby, thanks fpr the reinforcement on the lap. I told my boss today I wouldn't be able to come in on Tuesday.

Sobroody, do let us know if it gets there OK. Did you tell them what it was, were they OK about it?

Desi, I do think its worth doing the chromosome testing (karyotyping) just to close it off, although the combination of your genes can be a roll of the dice (e.g. just because one child suffers from cystic fibrosis it doesn't mean the next one will even if the parents are CF carriers). If there is an issue it can usually be addressed by PGD (where they chromosomally screen for the genetic fault in the embie prior to implantation).

2babies, yes not long for this first round, but like you I've heard many have to do more than one round of antibiotcs, so I am mentally prepared for that. How long did you wait until re-test. I calculated that my first period will come about a week after end of treatment (which I know is too early) so the next one will be at about 5 weeks- would this one be OK? Thanks for the info. on the laparoscopy too.  

Hugs to everyone else,    

Diane x


----------



## Saffa77

Ladies I am 7 weeks on Monday and last night and this am been getting af type pains it actually woke me up last night is this normal? Am so worried af is going to arrive agate lalaby? Did you'd feel this?


----------



## Cozy

Saffa,

I regularly get pains, had them last night and still got them this morning. This is very common and usually nothing to worry about. It is your body stretching and adjusting to what is growing inside. I was advised to take paracetamol if it becomes very uncomfortable.

It could also be to do with your bowels. Progesterone can make you constipated. Are you going regularly?

Cozy


----------



## tinks21

Hi there,

I hope you are all feeling well this morning.

We had our 2nd paternal LIT on Tuesday and I am now eagerly awaiting the retest and then on to the next step!  I have been very interested in the conversations about Curcuma Longa (thanks for posting the link Desi) and wondered if you ladies that know about it could give me some advice.  For the past few years I have really struggled with retaining water.  At mid-cycle and just before AF arrives I get really puffy all over and my sinuses get really congested and painful.  I have always put it down to some sort of hormone reaction as it happens at particular times of the month.  The doctors have never made too much comment on it when I have asked so I have just learned to live with it!!  Now, I am wondering if it isn't some inflammatory reaction that could be controlled in some way?? Maybe I am just way off course here??

My DH and I have always followed a really healthy diet.  I did a strict Candida diet for years and recently we have been following the Patrick Holford Low GL diet to try and reduce inflammation and just generally become healthy overall for the next ICSI cycle.  I notice that sugar sparks sinus problems for me (not good news as I adore chocolate - but am going cold turkey at the moment !!)

Also - another question (sorry!!), the new C test that Dr G is offering.  Do you think this should be done by ladies who have had miscarriages or anyone?  I have never had a pregnancy and we tested negative for the normal Chlamydia test done on the NHS and now am not sure whether it would be worthwhile doing this as well??

Diane - I have had two laparoscopies and you will definitely need to take several days to recover.  I found the shoulder pain really uncomfortable and couldn't move around too easily.  But that said, once you start improving it happens quite quickly.

Agate - I hope you are feeling better now and the aches have improved.

Hi to everyone else.

I hope you all have a lovely weekend.
Tinksxx


----------



## Saffa77

thanks Cozy - yeah been going quite regularly maybe not everyday but maybe every second day   just got worried as have no other symptoms no nausea no sore boobs just had the AF type pains which I didnt really have in the beginnning either so had me worried but seem to have dissappeared now.  Seriously had thought AF was going to arrive last night tummy was contracting just like when I have AF.  Well at least I am getting a symptom though LOL.  Did your (.) (.) hurt?  My tummy looks very bloated already!!!

Sx


----------



## Diane72

Tinks,

The C test is not just for miscarriage sufferers it can actually prevent implantation aswell.

Thanks for managing my expectation on the laparoscopy  

Diane x


----------



## Newday

Agagte I know you sent me a mesage but still wondering about these curcumin tablets that have arrived today 500mg how many to take and for how long? anyone?
Dawn


----------



## lalaby123

Saffa - I did get different types of pain at the beginning and as Cozy said its your body stretching and adjusting and in my case it was made worse by trapped wind and/or constipation, I would only worry if you start spotting and have cramps then you must call your clinic but hopefully that will not happen 

Cozy - hope you are well??


----------



## agate

Newday said:


> Agagte I know you sent me a mesage but still wondering about these curcumin tablets that have arrived today 500mg how many to take and for how long? anyone?
> Dawn


I took 500mg (95% curcumins) per day for a bit less than 2 months. thats (apparently) about the same as might be in 4 portions of typical curried food per day... so in some parts of the world that level of consumption would be completely normal, just as a food.

Saffa: I've had all sorts of different pains - stabby ones, prickly ones... lower back ache... nothing bad has happened. What I was told was that it wasn't a problem unless there was blood and pain together or if the pain became very severe.

Desi: Diane has beaten me to the punchline but... basically to have absolute certainty on your question about the interaction of tumeric/curcumin on intralipids - we'd need to do a controlled study where we give ILs with and without tumeric and then measure NKa in both groups - I feel sure no-one has does that... but there are good reasons to think that its ok to take ILs and tumeric.... maybe some background info:

1) intralipids is a suspension of mainly unsaturated long chain triglycerides with no cholesterol (as Diane says 'good fats')
2) the actual mechanism of why ILs lower NKa is still mainly unknown - they are used in fertility on the basis that they have been shown to reduce to reduce NKa - not on the basis of knowing why they do it.
3) their effects are a bit paradoxical - they have been shown to lower NKa in populations with elevated Nka (and in populations with normal NKa - but whats deemed normal NKa by most docs is seen as elevated by fertility immune docs like Dr G and Dr B) - but in populations with severely depleted Nka, they raise it - so the theory is that these unsaturated 'good fats' shift the lipid profile in your blood away from saturated fats and 'bad' cholesterol towards 'good' unsaturated fats, and that somehow this immunoregulates (makes more normal) the signalling mechanism used by NK cells.
4) tumeric has been shown to reduce TNFa (which is partly a product of NK cells and therefore related to NKactivity) and to remove 'bad' cholesterol and saturated fats from the blood. Again, as far as I understand it (which is not very far!), the exact mechanism why tumeric reduces TNFa isn't understood.
5) as far as I can see it then, its not possible to be absolutely certain that tumeric and ILs would act in opposition cancelling each other's positive effects out on NKa and TNFa without doing a proper clinical trial, but personally, it doesn't seem obvious that they would do that (it seems more likely to me that they would act together to both help the NKa/TNFa problem), but as in all this 'grey area' stuff, I think everyone has to make their own decision.
6) in my my own PERSONAL assessment of risk, tumeric SEEMS a low risk option because its been a foodstuff for thousands of years and ILs because the components of it have also been in the human diet for a long time and its therefore normal to have these fats in our blood.

1 more thing before I go back to bed (still feeling sorry for my aching bones - yes Dr G is doing me a prescription for IVIG but I only just had ILs yesterday)...

I did see a study just now done by Coulam's group in the US where they measured how long the postive effect of NK suppression by ILs lasted - for most of the ladies in the test group it lasted to 6 weeks, and it was down to only 4 weeks in only 1 lady in the (quite small) test group.

hope this helps a bit


----------



## Newday

Agagate when did you stop them?
dawn


----------



## agate

sometime around the time I got the BFP, I think. It was a bottle of 60 and there are quite a few still in the bottle.


----------



## Cozy

I took Turmeric too. I was on 10,000mg (as 500mg of extract) providing 95% Curcumins.... whatever that means!

I stopped taking this from the day of ET.

I wasnt given any medical advise on this. I just took and stopped it based on what I had read on various websites. Not sure whether that was a good thing or not  

Cozy


----------



## Diane72

I think as Agate said without randomised clinical trials, all we can do is go on instinct and 'kitchen logic' and make personal choices.

I have bought some turmeric capsules but I am waiting until I finish the antibiotics before any supplements, as I'm avoiding all supplements (with the exception of probiotics that were specifically developed for use with antibiotics i.e. free from calcium additives etc.) until my course is complete -It's all about weighing up risk:benefit and I'm not willing to risk that there is some additive or stabiliser that will compromise the effectiveness of the antibiotics just now.

I just ordered a few Anti-Inflammatory Diet Books from Amazon (has anyone else bought these types of book and tried them?). I am going to see if I can be creative and combine the GL principles with the anti-inflammatory ones. Although, this will be 'complementary therapy' IVIG and intralipids are still on my list of To Dos during/before the next treatment cyle!  

In addition to fertility I think inflammation is the root of many evils. Even statins have been shown to have an anti-inflammatory effect and many believe it is this effect as much as the bad cholesterol lowering/good cholesterol raising that contribute to their heart-attack mortality reductions. I personally think all of it is interlinked (hormones, lipids, inflammation and possibly infection has a role to play in some cases) but it just hasn't been proven yet. 

Agate, I'm glad you have the prescription for IVIG, better to be safe than sorry when you have got this far.  

Diane x


----------



## ells

Hi ladies,

just popping on quickly to let you know that I am know PUPO   .  We had 2 very good expanding blasts transfered.  The embryologist said that we had a couple of other blasts but they were not as good quality mainly fair so he said they werent going to freeze them   .  DH and I were a little disappointed with that as we had hoped to have a one or two to freeze.  I know we are so lucky to have go this far.  I was a nervous wreck this morning as I was sooo scared that we would have nothing left to transfer but they were all very happy as are we that we have two little beauties on board.  Right going to have snooze in a mo as I am sooooo tired - too much excitement in one day.

Hope you all have a lovely day ladies     .

Ells


----------



## Cozy

Ells,

great embies, I hope these are the ones that give you a BFP.

Take care and good luck   

Cozy


----------



## Diane72

Congratulations Ells, 

Expanding blasts, sounds like you've got some good odds with those!!!

Sending you fairy dust for the 2WW   

  

Sorry to hear about no frosties, I know I have been disappointed on a few occasions that way too in the past  

Diane x


----------



## Peanuts

Ells

thats great news, congrats on being PUPO!  Sending you lots of hugs for your 2ww         
Enjoy your snooze! 
Dxx


----------



## Diane72

Hello Everyone,

Just wanted to say to all who remain childless, sending you luck to make it through the day!!!!

My sister is at least quite thoughtful (even though she has 2 children), my Mum wanted to go to a church service with us both today and my sister basically just said No it will be all about Motherhood and it wasn't fair on me and suggested we go the following week.

So instead we are all just going to my sister's house and will also go drive round the wedding venues, she's looking at for next year. I'm going to be her Maid of Honour so it will be something positive to focus on  

Laparoscopy tomorrow  

Diane x


----------



## ells

Diane   your sister sounds very thoughtful.  Good luck for tomorrow huni will be thinking of you.

Morning to everyone else.

Ells


----------



## lalaby123

Ells congrats on your two beautiful blasts hoping these will be your lucky two ... I know it's disapponting not to get spare ones for the freezer but hopefully u won't need them... Well done doing so well so far...I recommend fresh pineapple for 5 days after ET it is supposed to help with implantation especially the core... Also brazil nuts for cell division and lots of lounging around doing nothing GOOD LUCK xxx


----------



## Newday

been away so thanks for advice will probably take them until Et and see how many left.
Ells fantastic news fingers crossed
dawn


----------



## Cath34

Ells - great news about your expanding blasts, well done you. Wishing you loads and loads of luck and sticky vibes.xxx

Anyone know if lactulose is ok to take in pregnancy, I have heard it is?


----------



## ells

Thanks ladies   .

Hi Cath, Yes its safe, my clinic recommended it after my last ET when I was a bit blocked, the chemist also said it was safe.  

Lalaby thanks for the tips - doing exactly that   .  I am     very hard that this is our cycle   .  Feeling quite bloated today but it came on after dinner   .  I am not planning on going back to work for the next few days, just want to chill out.  

Newday thanks hun   .  Hope you are doing okay sweetie.

Evening to everyone else, hope you are all.

Ells
Agate how are you hun.


----------



## agate

Cath34 said:


> Anyone know if lactulose is ok to take in pregnancy, I have heard it is?


yes its safe but I THINK start off gently with a half dose at first (in case the results are a bit too effective!)


----------



## Ourturn

Ells - cograts on the blasts      

Diane, Rasty - will let you know if my sample gets to athens. When they asked what it was I said plastic pot and it was sent express delivery as a small package. 

Hi everyone

I have developed a rash. Its started 2 days ago under my boobs. I assumed it was a heat rash as I have terrible night sweats thanks to the awful down regging injection I had. But now I have noticed it on one arm and its spread across my chest and is moving up my neck.
I had shingles 2 years ago but that was just a rash on one part of my leg and it was v painful. I have no temperature. Just been feeling pretty tired. Its been about 4 weeks since I had ivig/il. 
Any ideas?
Thanks 
Anna x


----------



## agate

anna:

if you do a google search for a dermatome map of the body it will show you the 'bands' of the skin which are associated by each spinal nerve. 

if its shingles the rash would arise in specific dermatomes (whichever have the varicella virus reactivated in them) and will usually be painful. 

so if the rash isn't in a dermatome-type pattern (and doesn't hurt) its unlikely to be shingles.

do you use biological washing powder - only sometimes if you have night sweats (or dribble), the sweat can activate the enzymes from the powder and start to annoy the sensitive areas of your skin?  

maybe you have to get it checked out by the gp if there isn't an obvious explanation.  it might be a fungal rash like atheletes foot or a yeast like candida.  both of those are sometimes fostered by sweat but are cured by creams.


----------



## Ourturn

Hi Agate
I use non bio. I do have had ear ache today. NHS direct questionnaire said it could be measles but I have been vacinated.
Will try to see my go tomorrow
x


----------



## agate

just amended my post - consider fungal or yeast infections of the skin?


----------



## niccad

Ells - many congratulations on being PUPO!! Expanding blasts sound great. When are you going to test? I hope that the 2ww isn't too much of a nightmare & goes quickly xxxxxxxxxx

Diane - I hope that the Laparoscopy goes well today & that you're not in too much pain afterwards x

Anna -sorry I can't help with the rash, but it sounds awful. I hope that it's just a reaction to something simple.. 

Nic xx


----------



## Louiseb26

Ells - Its such great news Hun...sorry about the frosties.Sending loads of   to your snuggly snowbabies.

Diane - Hope it goes all ok for you lovely...rest up after  

Anna - Have you found out what the rash is...hope it clears up soon.

Agate our lovely lady...hope your doing ok.

Peanuts - How you doing lovely.

Cozy - How are you? Bet your bump is getting big now.

Shellie - How are you lovely? Where have you been.

Niccad - How have you been Hun.

Mag - Glad to see you have sorted out LIT.I'm hoping my results come back good,or i might be joining you guys.
Hi to everyone,hope your all well.

Lou xx


----------



## Ourturn

Agate - gp said its not fungal. Either some sort of allergic reaction or stress. Had told me to try piriton, which I will seeing as I am not going to athens for while.
x


----------



## FJ

Hi everyone
Really grateful for all your help and advice. Just wondering what is Dr G e mail address and does he respond? I need to ask him a couple of quick questions.
Many Thanks xx


----------



## Louiseb26

FJ i know Dr G is away till the 22nd.I know if you go back a couple of pages his email address is on there.

sorry i don't have it to hand.

Lou xx


----------



## Cozy

FJ,

you are better off phoning when he gets back to ask your questions

Cozy


----------



## Saffa77

Hi all

Am needing a repeat prescription for my drugs.  Gestone, Clexane and Prednisolne who will be able to help me now that Gorgy is away?  Am running out of steroids in the next few days.

Sx


----------



## agate

Saffa - won't your GP do these for you now on an NHS prescription?

Otherwise, I think if you ring Dr G's receptionist she might be able to get Dr Eskander to do you a private prescription.


----------



## Saffa77

well i would need a new prescripton from gorgy to go to GP? am i right?  As all the prescriptions gorgy has given me I have had to post to [email protected] cos that is where I get my drugs from.

Soniax


----------



## agate

if you go to your GP and show her proof that you are pg - i.e., your scan pics she will hopefully be ready to give you a maternity exemption cert and will take over your clex, pred and gest (on the NHS). Hopefully she won't need to see proof that you have been on these up until now - but  you can always show her the packets?  Once you are 'in the NHS system' you shouldn't need prescriptions for these from Dr G (and you will get them free once you have mat exemption status).  The only reason she would need to see proof from Dr G is is she didn't believe that you were being prescribed these drugs?  My GP was completely happy to take over once I was pg and said the only reason she couldn't help me before was because 'infertility' isn't covered by the NHS but 'pregnancy' is.


----------



## bunagirl

Hello everyone!

Ells - Fantastic news on your blasts!!!   So sorry you didn't get any to freeze, but fingers crossed for you that both of these little ones stick good and hard.       Relax up and take it easy.

Hi to Agate, Cozy, Saffa,pinpin, FJ, Diane, Louise, Anna, Peanuts, Shellie, Niccad, Sobroody, New Day, Lalaby, so sorry if i've missed anyone.  

AFM - Well I'm now 7DPT, and cant say I have felt any different.  My (.)(.) feel a little tender and bigger, horribly constipated (sorry, you probably could have guessed that), only the slightest of AF pains last night.  Yesterday though, I felt so relaxed, calm and amazingly chilled, its hard to explain, but it was almost like euphoria?!   and I was convinced that this had worked but today all that positivity has gone and just feel normal again and preparing myself for the worst!  Oh well, at least I've got work to take my mind off things.  
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!  I HATE THE 2WW!!!! 
          

Much love from a slightly mental Bunagirl. XXX

P.S. Toffeegirl, so sorry for your BFN hope you have a plan of action.


----------



## mag108

ladies
Excuse my brief post, slept v badly last night after a fab weekend in the lakes.

I didnt make the chlamydia test last week unfortunately AF ended too soon.

Has anyone got Penny/Serums email as I will be in AThens again Tuesday and am thinking of trying to see if she can test me (is this possible without menstrual blood?)

x


----------



## Ourturn

Mag - just a thought. Get the consultant to take a sample of your uterine lining when you have the hysteroscopy. You can then send or take the sample to Penny and she can test for hidden C via that!


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

Just a quick one from me as I'm feeling a bit delicate. 

The outcome of today's laparoscopy (my first) is I have one blocked tube, an enlarged uterus due to adenomyosis (which I already knew as Greece picked that up in their hysteroscopy) and endometriosis (which I was half expecting). Frustratingly though they didn't get rid of the endometriosis as they don't do laser treatment at St. Albans so They've referred me back to my NHS consultant who they said will have to refer me to Watford for another laparoscopy and laser treatment  

Mag, as Anna said the other way is to get a lining biopsy. I've pm'd you penny's e-mail, Good luck with your trip to Greece

Hugs to everyone else  

Dx


----------



## Ourturn

Diane


----------



## Cozy

Diane,

sorry to read you have a few issues, but what a pain in the   that they could deal with the endometriosis while you were there. So you will have to go into hosp again... not good is it. Will these problems effect your TX in anyway?

You take it easy today  

Cozy


----------



## agate

Diane - how annoying!  I hope you can get a speedy slot for the lasering.  I guess its more answers that may help when you can get going on tx.

Did you know about the blocked tube before from other tests? like hsg or whatever or did you not have these previously?

hope you feel better asap.


----------



## Saffa77

Diane -    I can understand why they obviously couldnt remove the endo right then and there as they had obvioulsy just planned on doing a diagnostic laproscopy on you and if you have to have endo removed they need to be prepared and will need more time etc.  With me same thing happened first lap is always diagnostic then second one is where they remove it etc.  Also you would need a longer anaesthetic etc.  Its annoying I know but with me having had endo and so many laproscopies I know how they work now.  All the best of luck.

Sx


----------



## Ourturn

Buna girl - the 2ww is torture  

Mag - will pm you Penny's address 

Diane - what's the difference between a laparoscopy and hysteroscopy? I am booked in to see my consultant next week to discuss booking me in. If I did need anything sorting I was hoping they would do it there and then? 
What a pain 

Anna x


----------



## agate

Anna - I think hysteroscopy is where the fibre optic cam is inserted via the dilated cervix only so the view is of the inside of the uterus.
In a laproscopy (as well as often performing a hysteroscopy at the same time), the camera is inserted through a keyhole cut in the belly to look outside the uterus e.g., at the ovaries and the rest of the pelvic cavity.

the 'lap' bit means keyhole cut and the 'scopy' bit means camera.  'hystero' means relating to the womb/uterus.


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

Anna, Agate is correct with her definition. If you want to be comprehensive you need to do both the hysteroscopy and laparoscopy so you can see both inside and outside the womb.

Agate, no I didn't know about the blocked tube before but it didn't surprise me (I haven't had an HSG- only ultrasound and 2 x hysteroscopies)

Saffa, thanks for sharing your experience. I had signed a consent form for them to do 'ablation' aswell as the diagnosis if needed, but I guess it is better that they wait and use what was the best technique with the best equipment.

Cozy, endo can cause inflammation so it is better to get rid of it to optimise chances. The adenomyosis, unfortunately, there is nothing they can do about

HUGS TO EVERYONE ELSE,  

Diane x


----------



## berry55

Hi girls,

sorry for this me post.. but i have a problem.I had my last humria injection today and i had a booboo!   When i was injecting the humira the syringe came out of my skin (i dont know how i managed to do that)  so a little of the humira dripped out and i had to re injected? Have i did something really bad 

Berry xxx


----------



## agate

berry - it sounds like you just lost a teeny tiny bit of the drug. in theory rejabbing means a very slight risk of jabbing in an infection - which is why you are normally advised to throw the needle away - but you can't easily do this with humira, hopefuly you swabbed well/cleaned your skin well before your jab anyway -  should be no harm done though, in the grand scale of things.


----------



## Ourturn

Agate, Diane - do you think I should have a laparoscopy and hysteroscopy done at the same time? 

x


----------



## berry55

agate- thanks   xxx


----------



## ells

Morning ladies  ,

Diane, I hope you are not too sore today hun. I have had several lap procedures for my crohns and I do struggle with the recovery. Its a pain that they couldnt get the endo zapped whilst you were under  . I hope you dont have long to wait for your next appointment.  

Berry hun you will be fine dont worry about a little drop of the fluid. The nurse told me that they always add a small bit extra in - when the nurses and docs do them they seem to squirt loads out when they get it prepped. How are you feeling after this last lot?

Agate, how are you doing ?

Mag's sounds like you had a lovely weekend away. I hope you are able to sort everything out for Greece.

Cozy how are you doing hunni? You must have a lovely bump growing now.

Pinpin how are you doing?

Lalaby, hope you are well.

Sobroody I hope you get some answers from your investigations  . When do you leave for your holiday?

Bunagirl, *THIS WILL WORK, THIS HAS WORKED i AM PREGNANT*     . The 2ww is absolute hell, you never know what symptoms are pg what are meds and what is in your head  . Keep up your PMA hun . Sending you lots of         

Niccard, Nix, Louise, Deegirl, Missy Minx, Bling, Saffa, TG, Cath and everyone else hope you are all doing well  .

AFM, 3 days in and I feel okay. My temp dipped by 0.6 today  . I have had odd feelings, a dull ache that seems to radiate into my groin on my left, not sure if I can also feel my ovary or not but had this for most of the day yesterday and on and off so far this morning. I am     very hard that these are implantation feelings    I also felt a little off colour this morning but I dont know if thats due to nerves or tiredness  . I have also managed to give myself a really big ugly bruise form the claxane yesterday  I had been doing really well and had almost eliminated all my previous bruises  . Hope everyone has a good day  .

Ells


----------



## Ourturn

Ells - fingers crossed!          

My bloods for a cytokines retest should be heading off to Chicago as we speak. Any idea how long it takes to get the results?

Anna x


----------



## ells

Thanks Sobroody   .  My cyto's took 2 weeks to come back hun.

Ells


----------



## agate

its not supposed to take that long - if they get to TDL on tuesday morning you might have results back by following monday/tuesday evening.


----------



## Diane72

Hi Anna,

Its up to you really, I know some people do have the hysteroscopy and laparoscopy at the same time. I personally had mine a fortnight apart. The difference is with the hysteroscopy I was at LIT that afternoon and back at work the next day, whereas with the laparoscopy there is no way I could have driven today and will probably work from home /online the rest of the week to avoid the 2-2.5hr drive to work and back. 

Its a matter of what you'd prefer really,

Diane x


----------



## Donkey

Just a quickie as I am sneaking on at school  

I'm trying to retest my LAD levels at home and post them to TDL.  They have only sent me one bottle with a yellow top.  This is wrong isn't it don't I need a green one too?

Thanks
donkey xxx


----------



## ells

Agate hunni how did the scan go today?  

Ells


----------



## agate

Donkey said:


> Just a quickie as I am sneaking on at school
> 
> I'm trying to retest my LAD levels at home and post them to TDL. They have only sent me one bottle with a yellow top. This is wrong isn't it don't I need a green one too?
> 
> Thanks
> donkey xxx


LAD uses a yellow SST tube for you and 3 green lithium heparins for your DH. Your DH's blood must be fresh. Haven't they sent you Dr G's TDL form - it shows coloured blobs for each tube you need next to the test on the form?

Ells: thanks for asking. it was very cursory compared to the private one I had but they said everything was fine. Baby was wriggley and spot on for growth per date. so relieved, but glad I paid for a more comprehensive scan. just have to decide whether to pay for another private scan in a few weeks and when to book my ivig - I definitely think the ILs are kicking in as the joint pain is a lot better (ILs should reach peak effectiveness sometime from thursday - 7-10 days-ish after the drip).


----------



## ells

Thats brill news Agate you must be so relieved, it must still be a heart pulling moment to see your LO wiggle about.  I am glad that your joint pains are easing, pain is no fun at all, glad the IL's are helping.  I hope that you are not too tired out by all this hunni.  

Ells


----------



## agate

I am shattered!  couldn't sleep last night worrying about the scan (and haven't been sleeping that well cos joint pain is uncomfy and then when I keep turning to take the pressure off I worry about waking DH!) then I missed my morning nap (yes I am that lazy) because I was fretting about the scan and my afternoon nap (yes, really) because I was out having the scan.  I expect I will sleep well tonight!


----------



## ells

I am sure you will sleep very well tonight hun   Enjoy your sleep.

ells


----------



## Chicky Licky

Anna - I had a laparoscopy and hysteroscopy done at the same time over a year ago. 2 cuts for the lap, one in your belly button the other near your bikini line. Both have healed now though and you can't even see the scars. I was really whoosy and felt awful when I came round and was out of it all afternoon. I was also uncomfortable because of the stitches. I would still recommend having both done at the same time though.

Today, I just had the hysteroscopy which is a much shorter op (only about 15-20 mins if that), with no cuts. I felt great when I came round this time. Like nothing had happened. Just felt like I had AF type feelings in my tummy. 

Hope this helps!
Shellie
xx


----------



## bunagirl

Hi Ells - thanks for that.  Needed a bit of PMA today.  Had a bit of a melt down in the car on the way home tonight, just have no idea if this has worked or not hopefully a better day tomorrow i'm such a big p**sy!!!  I always find the 2nd week harder, but, it ain't over till the fat (constipated) lady sings hey!    

Take it easy and rest up as much as you can.    

Much love Bunagirl. xxxx


----------



## lalaby123

Agate glad scan went well and that your joint pain is better now phewww
I'm definitely going for private scan at 24 weeks after Reading your post 

Diane    that's terrible that they couldn't remove the endo at the same time      atleast you know more now and can tackle one of them 

Ells and bunagirl       thinking of u 

Hi to everyone else xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Donkey

Thanks agate

Yes they did send the forms but I just wanted to check with an expert!!

Glad you're feeling better
Love to all
xxx


----------



## Diane72

Good Morning All,

Agate, I am soooooooooo relived that the intralipids has kicked in and is doing its job. Keep up the immune treatment as long as it is needed. Hope you got a good night's sleep.  

Donkey, glad you got the answer you needed on the tubes. Good luck with the re-test. Mark and I will need to think about getting our re-test done. I'm trying to balance when realistically we will have treatment again, taking into consideration the potential need for more antibiotics and the other laparoscopy for the endometriosis with leaving myself enough time to have extra LITs if needed. Wish I had a crystal ball!!

Lalaby, sounds like a private scan makes sense, in the grand scheme of things its alot less money than what else we have to shell outon this journey and it will give you peace of mind.

Bunagirl, sending you lots of positive vibes  

Shellie, glad the hysteroscopy went well. It is much easier, I was at LIT in the afternoon and then on a flight that evening home. No way I could have done that after the laparoscopy, I guess its also the difference between deep sedation and general anaestetic-I felt so sick the last couple of days (but better today sickness wise). Did they find anything unexpected or was it all OK?

Ells, I always just accept I'm going to get a 'car-crash tummy' on the clexane. I found Bio-oil really good for getting rid of the bruising. Sending you lots of fairydust    

Anna, when do you have your consultant appointment?

Berry, I wouldn't worry about your humira experience, I'm sure it will be OK.

Cozy, Mags, Saffa and everyone else sending you hugs  

Only 3 more days of antibiotics until the end of my 1st 25 day cycle-yay! Still a bit sore but weaning myself off the ibuprofen today.

Diane x


----------



## Chicky Licky

Hi Diane - Know what you mean about the Lap op - that's the worst I think because of how you feel when you come round. The Hysteroscopy is the easy one!!    

I just had a 5mm polyp removed yesterday, everything else is fine. Same surgeon tried to remove it over a year ago but couldn't get at it. He told me back then that it wasn't in a place to affect things and let me continue with IUIs and IVF. However Dr Gorgy investigated it with a very painful Saline thingy and thought it best to get it removed. 

I initially got told by my GP that the op couldn't be done again on the NHS as I'd had all my fertility freebies and was now 'private'. After speaking to a nurse at the Fertility Clinic who initiated the original op, she told me that I COULD get it done on the NHS, I just needed a GP referral. So I saw a different GP and got referred no problem!

Makes me mad that does. The other GP is very "jobs worth" and is quick to put me under the "private" header now without checking the facts first. She even told me that I'd got more done on the NHS than I should have, with getting my level 1 immune tests done through another GP at the clinic while she was away!!!! Made me feel like I was trying to milk the system or something when I'm not like that at all. Made me quite angry that did!
So needless to say, I'm not seeing her again! I see one of the other GP's whose much better.

Funny thing is that the hospital report from my op will go back to the "jobs worth" GP!  

Just shows you that you have to find out the facts for yourself and try to get to know the system.

xx


----------



## Diane72

Hi Shellie,

Good to hear you managed to work your way through the system. 

My GP is also not terribly helpful and its only because I pushed like mad I got the laparoscopy on the NHS from the NHS consultant despite having seen them for three years (the appointment before after my 5th miscarriage they told me there was nothing more they could do for me, even though they had actually done nothing everything had been private except for the karyotyping).
  

I have to confess while coming round from the lap. I was a bit too honest. I asked to read my file and they said they couldn't let me do that but would send a letter to my GP. I told them that was a complete waste of time, as my GP has no knowledge and they may aswell send it to Santa Claus, which is when they said they could give me a copy of the letter, which they did    

Diane x


----------



## Chicky Licky

Hi Diane

Loved the line about Santa Claus - made me laugh!!    You did well getting your karotyping done on the NHS though, I got that flatly refused by Mrs GP 'Jobs Worth' and had to have it done through Dr G!  I think the only reason I got my op done in the end was that I got a copy of the first op report from the hospital and realised that the "follow up" actions hadn't been done. That was my angle for when I went to see a different GP then. So glad it worked! Didn't want to have to pay just short of £2K to go private if I could help it! 

Not that I'm moaning at all about the NHS. I'm actually very pleased with them at the moment after getting my op fitted in the day after seeing the consultant/surgeon. (Just shows you what they can do when you say you've got a cycle booked!). I'd just like to see everyone get the same on the NHS so it's all fair, across the country. From what I can gather from talking to other women and reading on here, it seems likes it's either a postcode or GP lottery as to what you get free on the NHS. 

Anyway, like I say, I'm not moaning, it's just my observation!!!  

Nice chatting to you hun. 

xx


----------



## Newday

Does anyone know how long the effects of intralipids last?
dawn


----------



## agate

agate said:


> I did see a study just now done by Coulam's group in the US where they measured how long the postive effect of NK suppression by ILs lasted - for most of the ladies in the test group it lasted to 6 weeks, and it was down to only 4 weeks in only 1 lady in the (quite small) test group.


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

Dawn,I was also told my Mr. Gorgy 6 weeks although I think it can vary by individual.

I feel like I'm falling apart, a quarter of my tooth fell out today. I had to arrange an emergency dental appointment and phoned DH to come get me (he was at the gym) as I still didn't feel up to driving . Luckily they managed to repair it with filling material (I was convinced they'd have to pull the whole thing out). 

Ordered the food online to start the 'Anti-Inflammation' Diet tomorrow.

Diane x


----------



## Newday

Just I'm having FET again at the end of the week had 2 intralipids at start of feb DR G said one more should be enough so have had that today. I have emailed hime to ask if I should get another next week. The first one was about 6 weeks ago
Strange I've had a couple of filings break too wonder if it's anyhting to do with steroids?
dawn


----------



## ells

Aww Diane  . I hope that you are going to be on the full road to recovery. Not many antibiotic days left though hunni. I hope the diet is easy and deos the trick hun. Definately think that telling some people how things actually are can help, your GP sounds a right    . Thanks for the bio oil tip, got some this afternoon  .

Bunagirl how are you doing today? No melt downs allowed  because *THIS HAS WORKED AND YOU ARE PREGNANT*           

Agate hope you had a good sleep last night hun and you feel better today for it.

Newday good luck hunni. I hope Dr G replies to your email quickly, its hard when you are waiting for answers quickly. I have been taking a calcium tablet since last week as the clexane and pred can affect your bones etc.

Shellie it is frustrating isnt it. When it works the NHS is brilliant but when it doesnt  . We have got a very supportive GP who has been really good and sorting out tests etc, I think we were used has his guinea pigs as we are the first NHS funded cycle the practice has ever had  .

Donkey good luck with the re-test. 

Lalaby from what I have read I defo think private scans are the way forward but I know there is a massive difference in prices. I do think going through what we have to this little ones a private scan is soooooo worth every penny for better pics and reassurance.

Sobroody how are you today hunni?

Hope everyone else is okay.

Just a quick question ladies, I have had this dull ache on my left side low down but its gotten a bit stronger every now and then for the last 2 days, I think it might be my ovary, it seems to radiate into my groin. I am wondering whether my OHSS is coming back a bit I stopped taking the cabergaline on Sunday, what do you ladies think? My right side seems okay just odd twinges every now and then. It seems worse when lying down. Trying hard to not symptom spot but I hate the 2ww its sooooooooooo tough  .

Hope everyone has a good evening.
Ells


----------



## Peanuts

Hi girls

Sorry I've not been on in a while - thinking about you all , but never seem to get enough time to post  

Bunagirl - keep your chin up hun, sending you lots of positive throughts        

Ells - hoping the dull ache is a good sige, has always been for me         

Berry - any Humira side effects this time?  don't worry about injection mishap, hopefully the other girls have put your mind at ease   

Diane - another op, are you going for a record?!!   Hope you're recoverying ok, sorry about endo diagnosis, and having to have another op to deal with it    Sending you and DH a big hug  , hope the antibiotics are doing their thing  

Agate - wow, lovely news about your scan, and yes, think you should have another one at 24 weeks - just to see bubba wriggling around again    Hope you've caught up on your missed naps! 

Big hugs to Fi, Zeka, WIIMT, Newday, ShellieG, Lalaby, Cozy, Dinkey, Mags, Saffa, Niccad, Pinpin, Lousie, and anyone i've forgotten  
Dxx


----------



## Chicky Licky

Diane - what's the bio oil tip then!?  Also, what's this diet all about that you're going on? I'm fascinated!!! 

Ells - liked your comments about the NHS. Sounds like you got lucky with your GP! 

xx


----------



## Saffa77

Hi ladies

Went to GP this morning and managed to get my concoction of drugs on a NHS script - told him Dr G said we could get our GPs to prescribe   this is going to safe me a wack!!

When does one take the gestone and prednisolne and the estrofem for again is it 12 weeks or 16 weeks?

Sx


----------



## agate

Saffa - I think it depends what Dr G says in your own case. it will probably be til 12 weeks unless there is a problem - in which case you might need to be on the prog til about 16 weeks.  You will need a little extra supply of the pred to wean yourself off it gradually.  Dr G says you can tail it off over 12 days, but it does make you feel sick and headachy doing it that fast, I think.  I THINK you should be able to come off the estrogen sooner than the pred and prog, but you'd need to check with Dr G.


----------



## Newday

Do the turmeric tablets make you go to toilet make your stools loose

Dawn


----------



## agate

no - not with me.  They are supposed to be recommended as a treatment for diarrhoea/IBS so I don't think they should cause loose stools.


----------



## vw22

Hi there, this is a really busy board so hope I don't get lost on it! Not ready to join 'fulltime' but may have to soon!

Just got another negative after my 3rd donor egg try.

I have a meeting with Dr Gorgy next week for the first time.

I am having to come over from spain (always seem to be in the wrong country for what I need!)...so it will be a real 'in and out' visit. Don't want to waste any time so apart from taking all my medical notes and being ready to have blood tests, any other tips before I arrive please?

Is there anything else I need to be ready for, with him apart from the visa card?

Even if he finds anything wrong from blood results I have no idea if I am going to be able to get treated here in spain but anyway...lats resort and all that...

Thanks a million, any advice however small on dealing with Dr Gorgy would be great to make the shole thing as smooth as possible...

Vx


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

I just found out that because I have 'symptomatic endometriosis' that my private healthcare will cover me to be referred.

Does anyone have any recos. for good endometriosis surgeons in the London and surrounding area?

Diane x

P.S. will catch up more later.......


----------



## FJ

Hi everybody
Thanks for advice re Dr G e mail and that he is away until the 22nd. We are stuck whether to have both the Gestone injections prescribed by Dr G and the pessaries from the hospital or both and are assuming that we start the Gestone next week when I should start the Pessaries. Only ever had pessaries before. Not sure what you all think. Also I have had the IVIG and Intralipid Dr G prescribed but the H at H Nurse was surprised I wasn't also having it on 2WW Dr G did not mention this. They are thawing my frosties next week I hope and pray we get one or two to transfer after all this.


----------



## Saffa77

diane

yes Mr thomas Ind


----------



## Louiseb26

Hiya Lovelys

Diane hows the tooth? My tooth cracked the other day to...£200 for a crown.I'm not sure if it has anything to do with all the drugs we take...i do find it affects my hair and my teeth.
Thats good news on the private healthcare...its good to get something back.

vw22 -Sorry to see your having to go down the immune road. You just need to bring all your medical notes and procedures you have had,and of course your credit card.Good luck 

Shellie - I'm hoping the money goes in this week.The bank did make me laugh...asking if i had been to Thailand and back again in 24 hours...yeah right.Still NO email back from Dr T,i have phoned him a couple of times...no joy.Hope its not to much of a rush on the 23rd.

Ells - Hows it all going  lovely? Hope your not going to crazy yet.The 2ww is the worst bit out of all tx for me.It would be nice if they could put us to sleep for it.Have everything crossed for you lovely  

Sending   to all you lovelys going to Athens.Safe trip for you all...hope its not to stressful.

Can i just double check the LIT dates for April are 6th,20th.

Lou xx


----------



## deegirl

Diane - I would FULLY recommend Dr Trehan however he's in the Huddersfield area. I travelled from N Ireland to see him. He is truely amazing and does full excision of endometriosis. Unlike other surgeons he removes also the 'healthy' skin inside so that microscopic bits of endo aren't missed. He assured me that it will not grow back in the areas where it was removed (I guess the exception is the bowel as it has to be scraped from there). Here is a link for his webpage. BUPA covered it for me.

http://keyholehysterectomy.co.uk/hysterectomy_endometriosis_recent_articles.html

Dee x

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## deegirl

Diane - I noticed that you are starting an anti-inflammatory diet, I want to start that too as when I was over with Dr T he said 'endometriosis is a problem', he said I should try to surpress my endo before my cycle so I'm starting Cilest (bcp) today 1st day of period.  He explained that endo caused inflammation and inflammation increases nk activity.  Do you mind me asking you what diet you are following and where can I buy the details/book for this??  

Dee x


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

Dee girl, Shelly, I actually bought 3 books on Anti-Inflamatory Diets and have spent my laparoscopy recovery time reading them. I think the best of the 3 is 'the Inflammation Free Diet Plan' by Monica Reinagel. Also if you google Mary Glenville you can download her e-book on Endometriosis (and the Natural Eating Solutions comes free with it).

In essence, the first platform is the same as glycaemic load i.e. no sugar, no refined carbs etc. to ensure stable blood sugar but also cut wheat, cut dairy (limit eggs and try get omega-3 ones), try to have wild fish and organic poultry rather than red meat and farmed salmon is a huge no-no, make sure its wild (I think Waitrose Online thought i was mad when I rejected their substitution today). Slightly different from low GI (but in line with GL) step up your vegetable intake in ratio to protein, lots of spinach, red peppers, kale and make it colourful! Finally put onions, garlic, chives, shallots and spices (turmeric, chilli, curry powder etc.) in all you can! Oh and don't forget a handful of nuts and keep taking those omega-3s as well. I also ordered Mary Glenville's reco. on vitamins & herbs but I am still waiting for them to arrive. My one exception I'm going to make is I will eat some live yoghurt as in 'The Fertility Plan' by Jill Blakeway & Sami David they reckon its OK and is different from the rest of the dairy.

Shelly, the bio-oil is good for getting rid of clexane bruises. I tried arnica and everything and its what worked best for me.

Dee, Saffa, thanks for the recos.

Louise, Dawn, I do think the months of clexane, prednisolone etc. probably wear us down, literally. Our poor teeth. 

FJ, don't worry too much Dr. G, like Mr. Ndukwe at Care and Geoff Sher at the Sher Institute give IVIG/intralipids on Day 6 (and sometimes also before stimulation in addition), whereas others such as ARGC give it only after ET. Latest thinking is it is better to to give it earlier. Re:gestone vs. pessaries I'd take whatever Mr. Gorgy prescribed. I had my progesterone measured every day at ARGC and found I had much higher levels of progesterone with the gestone.

vw22, my reco. would be if you haven't already read Alan Beer's book maybe have a read or at least read about all the immune stuff on the web. Mr. Gorgy isn't a big 'explainer' so probably worth getting a bit of knowledge before you go.

Agate, hope you are well

Peanuts lovely to hear from you  

Ells, I often have an ache during 2 ww and last cycle I had one horrific night and worried about OHSS but drank lots of water, I was ready to call in the morning but by the morning it had eased. Although I never keep them, I have always had BFPs so hoping its a good sign  

Final day of antibiotics tomorrow, woooohhoooo!    

Diane x


----------



## ells

Thanks Diane, Lousie  I hate this 2ww I just dont know what is going on. I am  soooo hard that these aches I am getting and the tiredness are all good signs. Going for some Reiki tonight so i am hoping the lady will get my energy flowing in the right places and give my PMA a bit of a boost   .

Diane, that diet sounds very interesting. I have read a bit about the alkaline one, I really hope it works for you.

Deegirl how are you doing hunni?

Agate hope you are relaxing and taking it easy.

Lalaby how are you doing? How are you LO's?

Cozy, Pinpin, Cath how are you all doing, bump rubs to you all.

Bunagirl, how are you doing sweetie? How are you feeling? I am quite anxious, i wish I had a camera that could tell me what was happening. I hate not knowing. 
[fly]*THIS HAS WORKED I AM PREGNANT*[/fly]

Hope everyone else is okay.

Ells


----------



## niccad

Ells – this is going to work for you. You’ve done absolutely everything possible and it sounds like the little pains are implantation…. When is your OTD? Having telly tubby tummies with little screens would be so good wouldn’t it. I have everything crossed for you xxxxx

Bunagirl – sending you loads of PMA… x      

Diane – I’m seriously impressed with the research you’ve done into diet. It all makes so much sense. Nightmare about the hysteroscopy and them not being able to do the full job when you were under. You are an inspiration to all of us. FYI: ARGC are now doing IVIG before ET also…. 

FJ – I started gestone and pessaries the evening of my EC. (on my FET cycle I started the evening after my surge). I much prefer the gestone although the injections are a bit tricky. Still amazes me that, what looks like a scary needle, hurts so little! Good luck

VW – welcome. Dr G is absolutely lovely. However he is a bit difficult to understand and speaks quietly. He also doesn’t explain things unless you really ask him, but the majority of the questions you have will be when you get the results of all the level 2 tests… x

Saffa – great news on your GP

ShellieG – you can get bio oil from boots. It’s lovely and I use it instead of moisturizer.. My GP also refused to do extra tests until I cried (not on purpose)!! He then got all sympathetic and went out of his way to find out if the NHS would fund karyotyping and thromophilia tests. He came back a week later saying they would. I wish I’m cried earlier! He still however refuses to pay for clexane, pred, etc… 

Agate – so happy that the scan went well. What drugs are you still on? And are you still spending most of the day in bed? I love that your bump is looking so good x

Dawn – good luck with the FET. It’s come around quickly!  

 to peanuts, lalaby, sobroody (how’s the rash), berry, pinpin, mag, cozy, cath and louise (isn’t it fantastic news about Eddy!!!!)

Have a great weekend 
Nic x


----------



## ells

Nic   would love a tummy telly   .  OTD is 25th   .  I soooooo hope you are right     .
Where abouts are you now with tx?

Ells


----------



## niccad

Hi Ells - just did my first humira shot on Wednesday night. Wowzers it stung! I wasn't expecting that. Have the other shot in 2 weeks then retest 3 weeks after that. Hoping I can then start straightaway..   . My bump won't be too far behind yours  
x


----------



## Chicky Licky

Diane & Nic - thanks for the tips on the bio oil. I've actually got some in the cupboard but never used it! I'll get it out though as I'll be doing clexane injections. 

Diane - a friend mentioned the "Naturals Solutions" book to me recently. They called it the "scary book"!    They are living proof that it works though as they've just conceived naturally after changing their diet. His sperm count was the problem for them and it went from low and them needing to have IVF first time round to them conceiving naturally second time round! 
I'm going to get a copy from the library and have a read.

Nic - wished I'd had a good cry at the GP's now! I could have cried when Dr G told me the Karotyping was £450!!!! Good for you though getting it done for free!!!

xxx


----------



## ells

Nic, wow not too long to wait then hunni.  The humira is a bit like that, i found doing it slowly helps.

Shellie £450   blimey our GP did it for us thankfully.  This is such an expensive business.

Ells


----------



## Ourturn

Ells -    

Dianne - posted my sample to Athens last Friday using the express Royal Mail service. It did not arrive until yesterday but the result is in today. They e-mailed Mr G but he is away so I have asked them to fax him the result so Akvil can fax it to me. Nail bitting stuff, pray its negative! 

Can some one help. My cytokines result is back in but the numbers have jumped up not down   Why is this? I had x2 humira in Jan and ivig and il in Feb during my tx. 

TFNa IL 10 (cd3 + cd4+) pre humira 30.9 now 39
TFNg IL 10 (cd3 + cd4+) pre humira 8.5 now  34.4 

I thought my cytokines weren't too bad but I was having humira for my raised unk cells but during my consult with Mr G 2 weeks ago he said he wanted my tfn to by 25 or less. 

What's going on? My cytokines have shot up and my lad numbers are even lower after x2 donor lit. Am I some sort of freak for whom immune tx does not work?

Anna


----------



## bunagirl

Hi ladies how are we today?  

Thank goodness its the weekend!  Peanut, Niccad, Ells thanks for the PMA guys   apart from the meltdown the other day I've actually been ok and not gone too   on this 2ww.  Have been at work since the day after FET so it has helped keep my mind off things a little.  Although it is constantly there at the back of my mind, trying to figure out what each little twinge or ache could be down to, eventually put everything down to CONSTIPATION!!!!! 
Have been getting throbbing like twinges in my ovaries pretty much since ET which has steadily been getting more noticable as OTD approaches, and also strange pain that radiates down to my groin area, think you said you had this too Ells?   
(.)(.) been achey but less so today and on and of very slight AF pains.  Oooh, and last weekend when we were in Scotland, I cant be sure if it was my mind playing tricks on me but I swear there was what looked like a very pale brown discharge on my panty liner, but I cant be sure.  This 2ww feels nothing like my 2ww when I got pregnant last year so I'm not going to read too much into it, plus I feel totally normal today  .  

Pinpin how are you my lovely?  Taking it easy I hope.

Cath, ShellieG, Cozy, Mag, Berry, Sobroody and everyone else reading this thread have a loveley weekend. 

P.S.  My OTD is Monday but I think I am going to start testing from tomorrow morning. YIKES!!!


----------



## vw22

Thanks everyone for your comments and Saffa for your details on the other board. Will come back when I know more. Good luck everyone! Vx


----------



## niccad

Bunagirl... Good luck tomorrow...             for you.

x


----------



## vw22

Actually just one last question. 

My partner can't go to the appointment too and I know that LAD DQ alpha involves testing both of us...as we are doing donor eggs (his sperm and someone else eggs) do I need to have him tested for anything anyway as the process isn't using my eggs with his sperm...Or is it more of a blood thing?

Hope that isn't a really stupid question?!
Vx


----------



## niccad

VW - I'm sure someone will be along soon to answer properly, but I thought because it's your body that the embryo is implanting in that you would still need your LAD to be tested. Agate - help?? You can answer this far far far better than me...

x


----------



## ells

Lots and lots of luck and     for this weekend Bunagirl .    

Ells


----------



## agate

vw22 said:


> Actually just one last question.
> 
> My partner can't go to the appointment too and I know that LAD DQ alpha involves testing both of us...as we are doing donor eggs (his sperm and someone else eggs) do I need to have him tested for anything anyway as the process isn't using my eggs with his sperm...Or is it more of a blood thing?


You probably would still want your LAD testing if its DE. LAD measures whether your blood has antibodies to cells with your DH's DQa (markers from his DNA). You want your blood to have these so that it will recognise an embryo made from his sperm and not attack it - the fact that you are doing DE doesn't change this because you are looking at the compatibility between your immune system and embryonic cells made from his DNA (not compatibility between, say your eggs and your immune system). Yes, you would need his (fresh) blood to do that test. You can only have all the chicago bloods run on mon-wed mornings before about 1pm (because you can't miss the fedex pick up from TDL).

But if he can't go with you, that's not a problem - you can go to TDL and have all the bloods run except LAD and then ask for a posting pack for his and hers LAD tests (you'll need to get 2 extra blood test request forms from Dr G though - 1 for each of you). Then you take the tubes home and arrange for both of you to get your blood drawn at your GP on a monday and then post it back special delivery royal mail before 9am delivery. It gets there on tuesday and joins the tuesday fedex so it gets there just in time before the blood is too old on wednesday.

Ells, Bunagirl: good luck!!!!


----------



## Ourturn

Ladies 
I have tested positive for hidden C  
I e-mailed Penny and she asked me to call her. She was at home and it was 9pm her time and did not charge me! What an amazing woman..so kind. I do need a hysteroscopy and will need the scar tissue removing as the C may still be living it and antib's don't always clear it. If the consultant does not do this I will have it done in athens. 
She said 3 months after my C has been cleared my immunes should be sorted. No need for steroids, IVIG or anything! I will obviously retest all my immunes at this point but if that is the case how amazing would that be! She thinks I will probably fall pregnant naturally and would not recommend ivf at first. Only worry is that C can damage egg quality and cause premature ovarian failure. 
IF I don't fall pregnant I will definately donor egg ivf with her. Her success rates are 60%. She said with me if I did de after clearing C via antib's and hysteroscopy would be more than 70%. 
She said she hope's I do not need de ivf and asked me to let her know if I do fall pg after clearing the C. Said to dh that if that happens she will get a lot more than an e-mail...a huge boquet of flowers for starters!

She didn't think I should bother with LIT but retest my levels if I fall pg. What I need to know is if pooled donor LIT might work. What I might do is postpone my LIT for 3 months and have pooled donor then so it ties in with ttc'ing again. It may take 6 months to clear the C as you have 1 month of antib's, retest after 6 weeks, another course of antib's if its still +ive....it can take x3 courses to clear! 
Thoughts? 

I am daring to hope again! 

Anna x


----------



## ells

Sobroody, whilst it was bad news it does sound really positive from Penny.  She really does seem to be providing quite a few answers to the ladies here.  I hope that you wont need IVF hun.   

Ells


----------



## Zeka

Anna, so sorry you are having such a tough time. Seems like one thing after another for you after reading your posts today. Sending  you a big  

Hi everyone else  
Zeka x


----------



## berry55

hey girls,

just wondering if any1 knows if dr G has started LIT yet

xxx


----------



## mag108

A bit zonked tonight....

So today went ok. We were told yesterday eve I was booked in for a morning slot and to get there for 7:30am but in fact when we got there we were told, no, we were on the afternon slot so come back at 11.

Precedure (hysteroscopy) was at 3.30pm, I was a little nervous (just because it was a general anaesthetic), the procedure itself was diagnostic.

Got to see consultant pretty much straight away. I have a uterine septum which is completely treatable (the same op again to remove it, very straightforward).
Its relatively common. Just have to wait for the next op (and have to postpone the IVF cycle which technically I have already started, ah well.) Would have like to have found this out a yr or two ago but again, hey ho. 
Was starting my time off work stint but thats not going to work now if I have to wait to start cycle. Who mentioned uphill battle?!


----------



## ratsy

Hi girls 

Does anyone know if DR G secretary in tomorrow cant remember her name  

Thanks 

R   xx


----------



## vw22

Agate, thank you so much, you answered perfectly, I get it. Thanks.

Ratsy, do you mean Akvile?

And by the way I just saw someone had commented on the C test with Penny. Some people have queried this test as everyone seemed to get positives and were getting skeptical about it all. Well just to let anyone thats interested know I got a negative, so it can happen!

Vx


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

Sorry Ratsy don't know, but she's usually there on a Saturday.

Mag, well it seems that we're all stretching out a bit further than the immune/thrombophilia investigations and finding things to address. Good luck with the next hysteroscopy. I've heard quite a few of the Greece board girls talk about having a septum removed. 

Berry, don't know but guessing if he had started we would have heard.

Anna, well what can we say. Like me I'm sure your thinking, why didn't I know this sooner. So much pain, so many losses, the emotional torture of the last years. Personally, I decided to wait until ~3 months after clearing the 'C' before re-testing NKs and cytokines (and possible DH's sperm fragmentation). However, as you say the re-test for the 'C' will be at least 6 weeks after the antibiotics so it will only be 6 weeks after that for the re-test. I may, however, re-test my LAD before then to see if I need extra LITs as if the paternal LIT isn't working for me then I might try something different while I wait to increase the LAD. Today we had our Day 25 Zithromax so DH and I feeling totally sick. But don't worry the doxycycline stretch is not too bad, Flagyll and Zithromax are the ones that make you feel rough and they are only a few days. I am daring to hope slightly again, I hope you are too     One final note if you are looking for dairy free, low GL recipe ideas the Anna Richrdson Body Blitz Diet meets both needs.

VW I know quite a few people on the Greece forum that got negatives on the C test

Hugs to everyone else,

Diane x


----------



## ratsy

Thanks vw22 

Thats it knew it was somthing like that   

And thanks diane  il try tomo  

Im waiting for my C test results not sure if the will be back yet the recieved them on monday was just going to phone see if they back 

R   xx


----------



## Ourturn

Ratsy - did you do the test via Mr G? If so Locus Medicus will have sent the results be e-mail to Mr G. Your results will definately be in because your sample will have reached athens before mine. They got my sample Thursday and my result was in Friday. 
I have checked their website and Locus Medicus are open today until 12.30pm greek time, but call them 
0030 210 6981332
This is their website:
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=el&u=http://www.locus-medicus.gr/&ei=b3qkS4OSHpH40wS0xuzyCQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dlocus%2Bmedicus%26hl%3Den

Ask them to fax the results to Mr Gorgy so Akvil can fax the results to you today FGA fax is . You will need to give locus the FGA fax which is Fax:+44(0)20 7224 1550

Diane - Penny said clearing the C would not effect Lad levels. One thing which has occured to me is that dh and I share a partial number 4.1 which means I will probably still need steroids during pg even if my nk's and cytokines drop  That said would save a fortune not needing ivig!

Anna x

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## Diane72

Hi Anna,

Not sure I believe that it won't effect LAD or response to LIT 'at all' as I suspect the research hasn't been done to prove it either way (although will have a look on Medline next time I'm in the office) and just logically if there is a massive immune fight going on in your body I'm not sure it can be as effective at creating those blocking antibodies as it would normally be. So I always keep my mind open. A bit like I didn't believe Mr. Gorgy that it was OK to take Humira while trying to fight off a 'C' infection   I guess I take all the information from doctors, integrate it with the knowledge I get from elsewhere and then make an educated guess, which I think is what they do aswell to be honest as there is still so much unknown in this therapy area.

Personally, I will still test my NKs/cytokines and treat with intralipids/IVIG/steriods as indicated by the tests (as things like endometriosis can also be inflammatory). Even if the tests don't indicate it, I may well do intralipids anyway just to ensure all is calm. I don't have a DQ match, if I did I would be even more inclined to do so.

Diane


----------



## Ourturn

Diane
That makes sense. I am definately going to postpone my lit for a while. Having it in April it would be too soon, and it makes more sense that lit would be more effective if my body isn't having to fight C. 
My tests show I respond better to IL than IVIG. IF treating C calms my immunes I would be more comfortable with steroids and IL. 
Will have a consult with Mr G this week...but no way will I take Humira whilst fighting C.(In fact I hope I will not have to take it at all) I have read that some peoples cytokines flare with humira but ivig should sort that out. I had humira AND ivig yet my cytokines have flared terribly. 
I am hoping that clearing the C will calm my cytokines. I imagine this would sort out my unk's too, as I think the unk's are raised in response to the C in my my uterus. Clearing any scar tissue which is holding onto C will also help too. 
The beer book says treating C can sort out immune issues..but will definately retest 3 months after being cleared to be sure.

Agate would you agree?

Anna x


----------



## ells

Morning ladies,

I know you all have so much going on at the moment so feel bad and bit guilty for putting a bit of a me post on, as feeling a little   , my tum has started playing up today   I am so worried that its my immune response   .  I upped my pred this morning, does anyone have any advice as to other things to do?  

Sorry ladies,

Ells


----------



## mag108

Ladies 

Its my 3rd LIT coming up on Tues. My concern is a prob at least 6 wk wait for hysteroscopy to remove septum found yesterday on NHS. plus an AF cycle wait to start IVF.
Its lookin like at least 3mths. Is LIT even meant to last that long?

Any advice?

I cant really afford it but am wondering about Penny squeezing me in TUES/Weds for a private hysteroscopy.
(and clam test)
X


----------



## Ourturn

Mag - Dr T's Lit is supposed to last 6 months to a year. Its not Penny who does the hysteroscopy but she can arrange it, its with an experience doc. I will probably be having mine done in athens too 
x


----------



## agate

ells said:


> I know you all have so much going on at the moment so feel bad and bit guilty for putting a bit of a me post on, as feeling a little  , my tum has started playing up today  I am so worried that its my immune response  . I upped my pred this morning, does anyone have any advice as to other things to do?


isn't it more likely to be stress or progesterone rather than an immune response if its your stomach? would some probiotics or live yoghurt help? If its acidy then I think you can safely take gaviscon?

Anna: I don't think I know enough about latent C to have much of a valid opinion. I can't see why having dormant C would affect blocking antibody response to LIT- if its dormant until provoked then it shouldn't have any effect on your immunes until you provoke it by trying to get implantation. If its active, then having an active infection shouldn't reduce your immune response, so I can't see why that would prejudice your response to LIT. Similarly, I can't see why antiB's for C would affect LIT because they should be working by 'poisoning' bacteria, not by affecting your immune system. If there is more than, say 3 months wait before you can ttc then it does seem logical to postpone LIT until nearer the time. I agree it seems logical that if everytime you tried to get pg, it flared up the dormant C, then obviously that could surge your uNKs, peripheral NKs and your TNFa so getting rid of it should hopefully reduce the amount of suppressive immune tx someone would need to get/stay pg. Am sure Diane knows far more about latent C than me!


----------



## ells

Thanks Agate, will try the yoghurt.   .  

Ells


----------



## Diane72

Ells, I agree with Agate sounds digestive rather than immune. 

Mags, Penny can usually arrange for you to have the hysteroscopy within a few days (I e-mailed her a week before asking if it was possible while I was over having the LIT). the one thing to bear in mind is you can't have your period while having the hysteroscopy. After the hysteroscopy you take a short cab ride back to her clinic from LITO hospital and she and the surgeon then sit with you and they jointly take you through the DVD of what they did/found.

Hugs to everyone else,

Diane x


----------



## ratsy

Hi sobroody 

Thanks very much for that dp going to ring them monday for me and ask them to fax them over ,I saw your post too late and missed them theyd already gone home 

Thanks 

Ratsy xxx


----------



## deegirl

Diane - thanks for the advice on anti-inflammatory diets...will look into it and order some books.  Eating healthy is just soooo boring  

Ells - Sorry that your tummy is upset today, hope that it gets better soon.  Thanks for asking how I am.  I'm good thanks, I'm due to go for my second LIT on 6th April and have first humira jab 1 week before that.  Bit scared about the humira to be honest.   Looking forward to reading your good news soon!!!  

SoBroody -   to you.  You're dealing with a lot at the moment.  Hope that the anti-biotics sort out the C.  

Agate - Hi    Hope you're well.  Will be thinking about you and the other girls on Tuesday.


----------



## Louiseb26

Anna - Can you tell me why none of the clinics have never picked up the C before.So thats means even tho we have all been tested for that and come up clear...we could still have it.
Its just been one thing after another for you at the mo...sending you a  

Can i ask does anyone know how much it cost to retest your TNFa?

Who is going out to Athens on the 20th April?

Big   to everyone

Lou xx


----------



## agate

Louiseb26 said:


> Anna - Can you tell me why none of the clinics have never picked up the C before.So thats means even tho we have all been tested for that and come up clear...we could still have it.
> Its just been one thing after another for you at the mo...sending you a
> 
> Can i ask does anyone know how much it cost to retest your TNFa?
> 
> Who is going out to Athens on the 20th April?
> 
> Big  to everyone
> 
> Lou xx


Lou the normal tests are only testing cervical swab or first collection urine - so they do rely on the C bug being down near the cervix or lower in the vagina - if you are clear down below but have an active or dormant infection higher up in your tubes the tests can't pick up the C. A blood antibody test would show if you have ever had C at some point but it doesn't tell you if you cleared it/cured it already. So that would give you a clue but if you then had negative swab/urine tests you could still have C higher up.


----------



## Louiseb26

Agate,I'm finding out so much information i never new.My head is finding it hard to keep all of it in  

Thanks lovely Agate


----------



## Cozy

Does Doxycycline not clear up chlamydia?

I had that before my last TX as I was told it would clear up any infection that may be there, even though I had tested negative on the cervical swab

Cozy


----------



## Diane72

Hi Cozy,

If you have had chlamydia for many years and it is no longer detectable in the urine/swab test but is in the upper genital tract/tubes then it may well be much more 'resistant'. It can take up to 3 x 25 days worth of high dose antibiotics (I've had 2g Flagyll, 1g Zithromax, 22 days of doxycycline and another 1g of Zithromax= 25 days = 1 cycle). Even after 3 cycles some women have not cleared it (I'm hoping I don't end up being one of them!)

The effectiveness stats you see for just 2 weeks of doxycycline or 1g Zithromax are for 'recently caught' cervix detectable chlamydia.

Lou, I have read a few papers that reco. that infertility patients should screen for chlamydia using the serology test and if a positive result, can determine if it is still present either by doing the menstrual blood test or a biopsy. Of course, you can just go straight to the 2nd test which will be more accurate.

Diane


----------



## Ourturn

Lou - I had the blood test for C with my clinic before I started ivf and it was negative. I imagine Dr G will suggest all his ladies get tested. I really hope the nhs pick up on this but it may take some time. 

Agate - you say a blood test would pick up wether you have ever had it....but mine did not neither did Diane's. 

Diane - its interesting that when I fell pg last September I was on antib's from around ov and was v run down. My longest lasting and strongest pf I was on antib's from ov for 4 weeks as they thought I had a skin infection which wouldn't shift. Can't be a coincidence can it? 
You must be so happy to have nearly finished the antib's. Bet you can't wait to have diary and a drink or two! Is soy milk ok when on the antib's?


Anna x


----------



## Diane72

Hi Anna,

Interesting that the preg. with the long term antibiotics was your best. Come to think of it, my really strong one that reached an HCG of ~8500 was right after I'd been on Flagyll for a wisdom tooth infection. Hmmm. Hope this lot of antibiotics has done the job. 

I actually only had the urine and swab test not the blood test, I'm surprised your blood test didn't have antibodies- interesting.

Re: the soy milk, unfortunately anything with high calcium is off limits and I believe soy and rice milk have calcium added? I switched to herbal teas.

Unfortunately both dairy and alcohol are still off limits for me even though the antibiotics have finished as I am now doing the Anti-Inflammatory/Endometriosis diet and no dairy, no alcohol are part of the rules  .  I had such a dilemma today as DH and I went out to a carvery for lunch and the option was roast beef or roast turkey- the endometriosis diet says no red meat, whereas the anti-inflammatory one shows a really high inflammtory index for turkey with a much lower one for beef. 

I ended up letting the endometriosis diet over-rule and opted for the turkey and then just made sure I balanced it out with lots of veg and a spicy chicken curry with lots of curry powder, onion, ginger, tumeric, red pepper all on a bed of spinach leaves tonight- so overall netted out OK without breaking any principles!    

Diane x


----------



## agate

sobroody1 said:


> Agate - you say a blood test would pick up wether you have ever had it....but mine did not neither did Diane's.
> 
> You must be so happy to have nearly finished the antib's. Bet you can't wait to have diary and a drink or two! Is soy milk ok when on the antib's?


I don't know then - unless there are different blood tests but the ELISA antibody serology test is supposed to stay positive if you have ever had C - I think.

I THINK its the calcium in milk which is the problem for some classes of antibiotics (not all) because some of them form a calcium chelate (strongly bound compound) that means the antibiotics don't get absorbed properly from the gut. I don't know if soy milk has lots of calcium in it too or not.


----------



## bbm09

HI girls,

I hope you dont mind me butting in on your thread I have been in touch with some of you before regarding Dr G and have been to see him and am awaiting my results - hopefully I can book a phone consultation with him this week....I think I will need some of you to interpret my results as well when I get them if thats OK? 

My question if someone can answer me and you may not be able to, is -

I am seriously considering going to Dr G for my cycle (from Ireland) esp if he finds immune issues in my tests. Am I right in assuming a lot of girls see him for the immune only and cycle elsewhere. How many of you approx actually see him for your IVF and is he good / has he good success rates? I know his rates are published with the London Womens Clinic but do any of you know even approx how successful he as an individual is for IVF?? I had possible egg quality / quantity issues on my Nov IVF where only 4 eggs were retrieved despite looking like an excellent response on scans. I just want to put myself in the hands of someone who is going to be able to deal with possible egg issues as well as possible  immune issues....

Its between him and ARGC at this stage and I just cant make up my mind. I know they both have different ways of treating. I am veering more in Dr G direction but would welcome any additional comments from you guys.....

WE just need all the facts on the table this week before we can finally decide - its a big decision esp when it involves moving country for the treatment!! 


Many thanks

BBmxx


----------



## Newday

Do any of you think day 22 is too late for ET?
Dawn


----------



## anabel79

Hello girls....I'm from Romania and I also have immune problems with 7 years of infertility.
I need your help...next month I'll have my first IVF. I am positive of ATA, Antityroglobulin,ANA and I have also activated NK cells.I want to try with some drugs from your scheme of treatment but I don't know what dose?
Please write to me what dose of prednison before and after ET did you have, and also the intralipid if you know....
 Thank you very much.....


----------



## Clarebaby

Hi BBM,

We have our first appointment with Dr G in two weeks time and was wondering if you could tell me what happened at your first appointment. The receptionist didn't ask me any details when I booked in or tell me anything about what to bring etc.  Did you take any previous test results with you or does he re-run the whole lot?.

Did your other half have to provide a sample at all, or was it mainly about you?

Thanks (and good luck for your results)


----------



## bunagirl

Morning ladies.

Wish it was better news from me but its definately a BFN im afraid.    
I'm absolutely gutted but we haven't given up just yet. DH has been lovely and said we should just keep trying (which is a big relief to me as I thought he might want a break/give up).  
I have some major work life decisions to make also which could have a positive impact on future tx's eg; quit altogether so no stress, which comes with the job, and no 40 mile round trip on mental dual carrriageway every day.

Sorry for the me post but i'm sure I will be fine after a day or so and when I have my next plan of action.  

Question ladies what it this C test that Dr G does?  Does he send this off to Athens? and what does it cost/entail?  May have to look in to this.

Ells - How you feeling my lovely?  Has your tummy settled any?  Sending you loads of      

Much love Bunagirl.
XXX


----------



## Louiseb26

Bunagirl,I'm so sorry lovely   I'm glad your going to keep trying.Take time out for you and DH.Stay strong Hun  

Lou xx


----------



## niccad

Bunagirl - I'm so so sorry that it hasn't worked.         Don't ever worry about 'me' posts - that's what this thread is for - we're all here to help you get over the hard times and to share in the joy of good times. So good that your DH is happy to continue trying. Look after yourself xxxx

Have you had a uterine biopsy? If not DrG could do one and the C (Chlamydia) test at the same time. He suggested this to me but I didn't really understand what he meant - which I'm now a bit gutted about as it made perfect sense. You can either send uterine tissue or collected menstral blood to Athens - but I'm sure one of the girls who's done it will give you far more info. 

Nic xxx


----------



## Chicky Licky

anabel79 - sorry hun but it's not pratical to answer your question as we've all been told different doses of medication and intervals of Intralipids depending on our test results. I suggest you have a consultation with Dr Gorgy to get your answers. Good luck with your cycle.

Dawn - my gut feeling is that day 22 would be too late for a FET but I'm no expert!!! lol! Could you get some advice from the clinic you're cycling with?

Bunagirl - I'm really gutted for you. Sending you big hugs!

Clarebaby - 1st appt with Dr G is information gathering by him.  He goes through all your history and makes lots of notes in your file. He then suggests what immune tests to have done. If you agree to them, he'll fill out the relevant paperwork for you to take to TDL (a couple of doors down) where yours and your other halfs blood can be drawn and sent of to the US. 
Take everything you have (hospital fertility records and any tests you've both had done, info on previous IVFs etc) plus pen and paper to make notes. He'll advise whether you need to re-run tests or not. 

Bare in mind that Dr Gorgy is really lovely and extremely knowledgable but you do need to tease the information out of him. He doesn't volunteer information readily, so go with as many questions as you can. 

On the 2nd appt, you'll go over your test results, then you can plan with him what to do next. If you can, try and get prescriptions from him at this appointment for your cycle drugs and go over the dose and when to start and stop each drug. This will save you £90 for another consultation to get this done at a later date!!! His handwriting isn't very easy to read so make sure you're clear about what to take and when before you leave his office. 

He doesn't mind you ringing with odd questions afterwards but if you have alot you'll be charged a £90 consultation fee. So try and get everything asked and arranged at your 2nd appt. 

Hope this helps! 
Shellie
xx


----------



## Clarebaby

Thanks Shellie, that's a big help and know what to expect now.

Best wishes


----------



## Saffa77

Hiya ladies

Are any of you on Clexane 60mg if so where do you get your supply from [email protected] can only supply me with 40mg and then another injection of 20mg means i have to inject myself twice a day!! thought it was just once off as they didnt have stock but now they say they only stock the 40s and 20 meaning i would have to have the 2 injection again - not keen as that means 2 bruises instead of 1!  Do you think if I order from my boots pharmacy they will be able to get it in for me?

Sx


----------



## ells

Bunagirl     I am so sorry to read your news hun.  I am glad your DH has said he is happy to keep trying, it certainly makes a difference when they give you their support 100%.  I am glad that my DH is of the same opinion too.  

Hi to everyone else, hope you are all doing well.

Newday day 22 does sound a bit late, when we have done them we have always had medicated ones and I think we started on day 19 or day 3 (we have had 3 FET's).  I hope that you can get some answers from your clinic sweetie.

AFM, not feeling positive at all.  Really dont think this has worked, have been very low the last couple of days, no aches a couple of twinges but thats it, still feeling tired.  Every 'symptom' I have had I can put down to the prog support.  Feeling very gutted and angry that my body is sooooo F******  S***e!  I dont want to do a test on Thursday as I just dont want to see the lonely line.  I was thinking about asking my clinic to do a blood test just to see if there is anything there.  Have spoken to DH about what to do next and I will want to see Dr G asap to see if he suggests anything.  Can you ladies recommend any other tests?  I have had the HSG done but thats it.

Hope everyone else is having a good day,   .

Ells


----------



## bunagirl

Niccad, Louiseb26, ShellieG.  Thanks for the words of support, it really does help.  

Ells - Oh Ells    I so hope you are wrong on this one, and that its just the 2ww madness taking its toll.  
This will work!!!! You had amazing blasts put back and I'm sure they're bedding in nicely!!!!   
Stay strong my lovely.  

Much love Bunagirl. XXX


----------



## ells

Bunagirl.

Ells


----------



## niccad

Ells - sending you loads of       . I know exactly what you mean about testing.   So much rides on the stupid stick. When I got my negative I went straight to DrG - had the blood test and followed up with the uterine biopsy. If I could do it again I'd have the 'C' test too which everyone is talking about.... However... YOU won't need it. I'm overweight and fat at the moment and I'm not singing... so it's not over...


----------



## ells

Nic      , that will be my plan B then!

Ells


----------



## Diane72

Bunagirl, sorry to hear your news    

Ells, lets wait an see the outcome, stay positive    We can talk 'other tests' if it comes to that but you still have hope, this could be your miracle.  

AFM, having the period from absolute hell and even had to leave work early and go the GP as I could stand it no more. Floods of blood (literally couldn't even sit through a 2 hr meeting without my Always extra long 'night time' super duper pad becoming totally saturated and the pain was really intense). The tramadol seems to be better than the ibuprofen but I've been putting off taking the tranexamic acid as I worry about what effect it could have on the adenomyosis.

Diane x


----------



## Ourturn

Bunagirl - I am so sorry     I would definately have Penny's menstrual hidden chlamydia test. IF you test positive you would need a hysteroscopy which would clear any scar tissue (and hopefully any unkcells) 
I am really hoping the antib's and surgical hysteroscopy will clear my unkcells up. 

Ells - really hoping you are wrong         

Diane - hope af eases soon    

Sorry no more personals, I'm shattered

Anna x

PS waiting for Mr G to fax perscription for all the C drugs to Central Homcare...they charge just over £80 for all the drugs for me and dh.


----------



## ells

Thanks Diane and Sobroody I do hope you are right but I just cant shift this negative feeling.  Can I just ask about the C test, how would you get it?  I know that probably sounds naive but can it be caused by other types of infection or previous surgeries?

Ells


----------



## Diane72

Ells,

Chlaymida is a sexually transmitted disease. But a bit like latent TB, that all of us who were prescribed Humira had to test for, some research indicates it is possible for it to be 'latent' and 're-activated' but you would have to have caught it at some point. 

There are a whole range of infections that can cause infertility issues though some of which are not STIs and can be a consequence of surgery, so C is not the only test (although if you identify infection from womb appearance hopefully the antibiotics taken would have an impact on a whole host of infections). 

I've been writing to Geoff Sher at SIRM recently and he has pointed me in the direction of reading about 'Asherman's Syndrome' which essentially is intrauterine adhesions / scar tissue that is caused by either 'an agressive D&C' or incomplete miscarriages.  Having a D&C when you also had another infection (e.g. from the incomplete miscarriage or C etc.) could lead to even worse scarring and the type of adenomyosis that I have.

You can do the C test through Mr. Gorgy now which I suspect is the easiest. Sobroody did it this way as did quite a few others. 

Diane x


----------



## agate

Saffa77 said:


> Hiya ladies
> 
> Are any of you on Clexane 60mg if so where do you get your supply from [email protected] can only supply me with 40mg and then another injection of 20mg means i have to inject myself twice a day!! thought it was just once off as they didnt have stock but now they say they only stock the 40s and 20 meaning i would have to have the 2 injection again - not keen as that means 2 bruises instead of 1! Do you think if I order from my boots pharmacy they will be able to get it in for me?
> 
> Sx


pretty much any chemist inc boots should be able to get it for you , I think.



Diane72 said:


> AFM, having the period from absolute hell and even had to leave work early and go the GP as I could stand it no more. Floods of blood (literally couldn't even sit through a 2 hr meeting without my Always extra long 'night time' super duper pad becoming totally saturated and the pain was really intense). The tramadol seems to be better than the ibuprofen but I've been putting off taking the tranexamic acid as I worry about what effect it could have on the adenomyosis.


sounds awful D - mooncup?

Bunagirl: am so very, very sorry.

Ells: am sure you have gone through every neg thought there is - but you are still in with a really good chance and you know it really.

AFM: LIT again today.


----------



## Ourturn

Agate - good look with LIT 

Diane - 2 years ago I was worried that the erpc I had, might have caused ahermans as I did not have af for 5 month, but then it came back. As far as I know I have never had an incomplete mc but I have had one erpc. Worrying...will have to see what the hysteroscopy reveals. Seeing my local consultant tonight.

Ells if you do it through Mr G he sends you the pot, form and instructions. You send it directly to athens. Once they receive the pot they turn around the test in 24 hours.

Anna x


----------



## Newday

Can I ask some advice. I am havinf ET next Monday 5 day transfer they have said start utogesten 48 hours before. This doesn't sound right to me I though you started it 5 days before tranfer is having blast. What do you think?
Dawn


----------



## ells

Thanks ladies,  feeling a bit better today, still have a sore throat and a cold which is worrying me but feel brighter and a little more   again,s till not holding out much hope though.  

I will speak to Dr G about this C test, I have never to my knowledge been pg before and never had a mc but I do have a blocked left tube which I understand also could indicate an infection.  The test sounds pretty straight forward to do so will look into it once this week is out the way.

Saffa I found Tesco's one of the cheapest places to buy clexane - they can order it in for you too.

Agate, thanks for your reply   .  Hope the LIT is/has gone well.  Safe trip home.

Newday I have always been told to start 5 days before any ET.  Have you rung Dr G to ask him?

Anna it is a quick turn around.  Do they ring you or Dr G with the results?

Diane, AF sounds awful hun I hope that you are more comfortable today.  The things we women have to put up with   .  

Hi to everyone else, I just wanted to say a big thank you to you all for your kind messages and advice        .

Ells


----------



## Ourturn

Ells - they e-mail Dr G with the results. I was in touch with the clinic as my sample had not arrived after 5 days so I was worried. On the day 7 I called and they said the blood arrived and had been tested..so I asked them to fax Mr G so I could have the result faxed to me (he was away) 

Newday - can't help sorry


----------



## agate

Newday said:


> Can I ask some advice. I am havinf ET next Monday 5 day transfer they have said start utogesten 48 hours before. This doesn't sound right to me I though you started it 5 days before tranfer is having blast. What do you think?
> Dawn


can you ask them again if you are concerned? they would be the experts, of course, but I would have expected you to start prog on the day that approximates to ovulation/EC (because that is the day that on a natural cycle your body would start to get prog from the corpus luteum (empty follicle that has ovulated)... So, as you say about 5 days before blast transfer - unless they've got some special reason to think that you don't really need prog or that there is some risk that your lining would be especially overmature - but I've never done FET so I don't know for sure.


----------



## Newday

they have replied and said anything from 2 - 5 days is Ok
Dawn


----------



## Louiseb26

Hi Ladies

Went to see Dr G yesterday.Had to have a biopsy...WHAT THE HELL   He said it will feel like a period pain...NO i don't think so.Glad thats all over with.I'm also going to have the C test done...thought it was best to get it out the way.Dr G has suggested that i have pooled donor,instead of donor or paternal.So i booked up to go over to Athens on the 20th April.Hoping to start tx mid April...fingers crossed.

Bunagirl - Hope your holding up lovely.Stay strong Hun  

Ells - I'm   that your wrong lovely.I think we all go through and feel the way you do.Sending big   to you.

Anna - Thanks for the info on the C testing.Got all my paper work and pot ready for action   I have to say its opened my eyes to it.Hope your doing ok  

Diane - Hope you feeling alot better and you have sorted out that tooth  

Hope all the ladies gone to Athens have a safe trip home...It must of been very   in the waiting area  

Lou xx


----------



## Bling1975

Hi girls!

I have just got back to the hotel from my first LIT, very very painful but it was nice to meet so many of you as well as some internet friends from sweden.

I have emailed briefly with penny about doing the C test during our stay here but I didn't think my AF would come on time. She said she could do it at her clinic but I didn't ask any details. Now it has just started and we are flying home tomorrow afternoon. I am planning to just drop by the clinic tomorrow morning, is there something I have to think about before I go? How do you collect it and how much do they need? Can I use a tampon today or can that ruin it? Please any advise would be great.


----------



## 3babies

Hi there, she should be able to collect some in the morning b4 you travel back or you can do the tampon thing 
a few drops should do it (not much)

Hope your arms not too painful 

Carmella x


----------



## 3babies

SORRY NEARLY FORGOT!

IT MUST BE FRESH (RED) BLOOD SO MAYBE TOMORROW MORNING WILL BE BETTER.

A FULL BLOWN MENTRAL FLOW IS REQUIRED...


----------



## bunagirl

Hi everyone, can anyone tell me how much this C test costs?


Bunagirl. xx


----------



## 3babies

You'd need to check with Dr. Gorgy or contact Penny direct as i can't recall the price   maybe PM diane or check on the Greece thread.

2babies x


----------



## ratsy

Hi bunagirl 

I did my C test through DR G  it was £116 he gives you the tube with the water in and information sheet on how to do it and address 

I found it easy i did it on second day of cycle and just used the tube ,I did it as soon as i got up do it before you go to toilet tho as it says on leaflet your af doesnt  flo properly after going to wee or using muscles   

Hope this helps 

Ratsy xxxx


----------



## Diane72

Hello All,

Bling, Bunagirl it costs 200 euros with Penny to do the C test (but that includes your consultation). 

Bling, Some ladies actually just squeeze out blood from a tampon to get the blood so no issues with that.

Sobroody, my first miscarriage was an ERPC but all the rest were 'natural' so in some ways I guess I don't know if I've ever had an incomplete miscarriage. I did bleed for about seven weeks after the last one, which worried me that there was still tissue remaining.

Hugs to everyone else, 

AFM, still feeling in pain and bleeding lots but thanks for the sympathies Louise, Agate, Ells.

I'm guessing its my body getting rid of any of that extra scar tissue that was around after my hysteroscopy and maybe what was also 'blocked in' before it was removed as well as they gave me oestrogen to thicken the lining after the op. This is my first period since the ops. so hopefully next time it won't be so bad.

Diane x


----------



## 3babies

Evening ladies,

I found these two links which maybe of interest to many regarding Scar tissue 

http://www.fertilityfactor.com/infertility_uterine_factors.html

http://www.stronghealth.com/services/womenshealth/gynecology/endometriosishome.cfm

2babies x

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## Diane72

Thanks 2babies


----------



## bunagirl

Ratsy, Diane, 2babies thanks for the info guys, I will definately be speaking to Dr G and get this looked into. 
Many, many thanks!!!!  
Bunagirl. XXXX


----------



## ells

Morning ladies,

Hope all the ladies that went to Athens had successful trips and that you all returned home safely and didnt have too many problems with the strike.

I have a problem ladies and i am hoping someone will be able to help me!  I got Akvill to send me an invoice for the last consultation, blood test and Saline Hyst I had done so that i could get the money back directly from BUPA rather then it go into my 'account' at Dr G's.  I had authorisation numbers for all the appointments/tx's but still have received a cheque, so I rang BUPA today and they are telling me they can not pay it because (even though its under Dr Eskander) its headed under the FGA   has anyone else had a problem with this?  Its driving me nuts!

Ells

PS: Not looking good at the moment


----------



## Saffa77

Hi 

Yes I am with AXA and the same thing happened they didnt pay as it was under the Fertility academy and told me they dont pay anything fertility/ivf related!  Very frustrating so I have had to leave it as that and forked out the money on my own at the consult.  Hope you get a way around this.

Sx


----------



## Diane72

Yes I too am with AXA and they will not cover any fertility or recurrent miscarriage investigations for me. 

Which is why I need to make sure I go somewhere different for the endometriosis/adenomyosis if I want them to cover me.

Diane


----------



## ells

I rang Arkvill and explained what had happened and she said not to worry and Dr G and Dr E will get it sorted out.  Apparently this happens quite a bit.  BUPA did get a piece of my mind this afternoon though   .  

I have also managed to get a blood test booked tomorrow morning, so will know if anything happened.  Feel like AF is coming, had quite a few twinges and aches down there, backache and have a headache so preparing myself for the worst.  

Hope everyone else is okay.     

Ells


----------



## niccad

Ells - good luck for tomorrow. I will be busy praying for you       . 
Re Bupa - I haven't had a hysto done with DrG, but Bupa have continually paid for all my tests and it's on FGA paper?! If they give you a code I think that means they have accepted for you to go ahead, so it's absolutely wrong if they then go back on that ..   

Are you going to stick test too in the morning?  
Nic xx


----------



## ells

Thanks Niccad   .  yes will be doing HPT with DH in the morning  - dont want to as am petrified of it   .  Re BUPA they gave me authorisation numbers for the appointments so I want to know why they are saying they cant pay now   .  The woman said that the invoice (which was the original one) was unclear as it had lots of lines on it   .  Me thinks that someone has screwed up somewhere    .

Ells


----------



## Cesca77

Hi girls,

Can anyone help me? I am 13 weeks pregnant with twins, have Hashimoto (underactive thyroid) and was diagnosed to be MTHFR heterozygote. My clinic in Turkey has prescribed me Clexane and baby aspirin, but this Friday and Monday I have had a brown bleed and when I spoke to my clinic in Turkey they recommended to stop the clexane and the aspirin. I am not able to see my consultant until Tuesday. Do you  know if it is safe for my babies if I stop Clexane and baby aspirin for a few days?
Many many thanks for your help!
Cesca xxx


----------



## LollyP

Hello Girls

I'm new to this thread and hoping that someone can give me some info on immune testing? I have recently miscarried at 5 and a half weeks after DEIVF in the Czech Republic, I also miscarried at 6 weeks last summer after OEIVF and Im pretty convinced that I may have also miscarried after naturally conception on more that one occasion but just treated them as a couple of late and abnormal AF's.  Anyway needless to say Im starting to think there is something wrong with me  
I would be very interested in getting some tests done and everywhere I have looked the same name pops up 'Dr Gorgy' so Im guessing he is one of the best
I would really appreciate any info or advice on this as I need to focus on my next plan of action just so I  can get through my recent disappointment, Im still suffering and this site is the only thing thats getting me through it at the moment.

Thanks 
XXXX


----------



## Ourturn

cesca - my understanding stoping celexane for a while during any spotting is the right thing to do.

Ells - good luck! 

Hi everyone

Getting really hacked off....been trying to get a script from Dr G since monday. Been chasing Akvil twice a joy and still nothing!   She's really embarassed. Fickle I know but we have our anniversary and a big bash to attend on the 23rd of April and if we start them soon it means we will be able to have a tipple. I sent Dr G an e-mail outlining the protocol that Penny uses. I know he was checking dosages but I am reallyn 
Thought about asking penny to write a scripts but entral homecare would need t o see the original beffore despensing from a foreign clinic. If its not sorted by Friday will go to me GP and beg for her to prescribe them for me. 
Any other suggestions? 

x


----------



## Cesca77

Sobroody! Thanks so much for telling me this! I think I will be able to sleep tonight!!    
xxxx Cesca


----------



## Ourturn

Lolly   I am so sorry. You are definately right to get tested. I would recommend you try and get level 1 tests (for blood clotting issues, karyotyping etc) done via the nhs if possible and full immune testing via Mr G. NHS may say they will not test unless you have had 3 mc's. but it sounds like you have. Mr G does the most thorough immune testing in the uk, so definately the right person to see. 

Anna x

PS Cesca - I am sure Agate stopped clexane when she had a bleed and her pg is progressing nicely!


----------



## Cesca77

Thanks sobroody! I will PM Agate! xxxx


----------



## Bling1975

I am now back from Athens. Went to see Penny this morning for the hidden C test. I didn't have an appointment but they were all great. So lovely and kind people. She even showed us to her favourite restaurant in the area for lunch afterwards and it was the best Greek food we had all stay.

My arm really hurts after the LIT, it doesn't itch that much but if I lift something or stretch it it really aches and it is hot. Only one really dark red spot and 5 lighter ones but the whole area is swollen so I hope it is working.


----------



## ells

Morning ladies,

Well I really cant believe this but ....

                         

I honestly, really wasnt expecting this at all   .  The test came up pretty quickly and the line is dark.

Cant believe it we are in shock   and I am still shaking .  Never thought I would see two lines.

Thank you all sooooooo much for your positive comments, vibes and for keeping me going through the 2ww   .

Love from a very shaky, shocked and relieved 
Ells


----------



## Ourturn

Ells - CONGRATULATIONS!


----------



## Swinny

Good morning lovely ladies

Just wanted to bob on and say Congratulations to Ells     We were all talking about you yesterday on the flight back from Athens so waking up this morning (been up since 5.30 as couldn't sleep with all the things flying around in my head) and seeing such fabulaous news has really spurred me on. Well done chicky I am so pleased for you  

Cesca - I sat chatting to Agate for a long time on Tuesday while we were at the clinic and she has several bleeds and each time has been told to stop her Clexane. You will be able to resume it as soon as the bleeding has stopped. Agate is now 21 weeks and all good, so please don't worry honey....easier said than done i Know!!   

SB  Thanks a million chickadee. Caqme down this morning and composed a big long email to Penny which I am going to send today. Am going to ring Akvil this morning and get her to send me the tubes for the hidden C test so that i can do it with my next AF which should be in about 6 days


----------



## Bling1975

Ells - wonderful news! Congratulations


----------



## Newday

Ells wonderful news congratulations
Dawn


----------



## mag108

Ells: Great news! many many congrats


----------



## agate

Ells - I knew it!!!  I think I said to some of the girls in athens that I was expecting to see your BFP on the thread any minute 

Are you sorted with all the things you have to do?....get your 2 beta hcg blood tests done 48 hours-ish apart, check with Dr G to see if you need another drip, book your scan, sort out your meds until then, see if you need another drip at the same time as the scan and then an NK retest (and prob follow up consult when the results come back)?   and then maybe arrange to see your GP with your scan pic to see if she will start giving you a maternity exemption certificate and do your prescriptions on the NHS.  Has your tummy settled?  If you are on a lot of progesterones for the next couple of months, do be prepared for a lot of bad 'guts' days (regardless of underlying GI conditions), a lot of ladies seem to say that they feel a lot better when they stop the progesterone.  I'm sure I do.

Cesca etc: On the clexane +spottting in pg thing - I pm'd you - but basically I THINK if you have full red bleeding you probably do need to stop clex - if its only brown spotting then maybe its better to cut down the clex for a week or even continue IF YOUR DOC SUPPORTS THIS, rather than stop altogether - but you have to bear in mind how significant a risk clotting is for you - so if you are only MTHFR hetero, stopping for a week isn't likely to be much of a risk - I have certainly stopped it from time to time and things have been ok so far - but for ladies with more severe clotting issues eg APLAs or factor V Leiden, you'd have to get proper advice because stopping might be more risky.   

If at any time you have other reasons to think that the clex dose might be too high for you (unexplained bruising, bleeding etc), you can get a test from your GP called anti factor Xa (the X is a roman numerals 10) which measures how much clexane is actually in your blood  - its a test that has to be done about 3 hours after taking your daily clex and can only be run on fresh blood (nothing posted to TDL etc), so you can probably only do it in the morning (if that's how your local GP/hosp works) - which means its better to keep to a morning timetable for taking clex in case you ever need to do one of those tests - they aren't done routinely because the effects of clexane are supposed to be very predictable as you would normally need to have significant kidney probs for the heparin level in your blood to build up.


----------



## Zeka

Yay, Ells! Fab fab news! So happy for you x


----------



## Cozy

Ells,   on your   

I hope the rest of your pregnancy goes smoothly 

Take care  

Cozy


----------



## tinks21

Congratulations ells!  
It is so encouraging to hear of success stories after all the hard work to get there - well done.  Look after yourself.


Tinks xx


----------



## niccad

Ells - YIPPEE!!!              I am so so so happy for you. You must be over the moon. Seeing that extra line must have been sooo magical this morning. xxxxxx


----------



## -Starflower-

Please could one of you lovely ladies tell me how long in advance of re-testing TTC or IVF did you start humira injections?

My LIT has been postponed until over a month away. Mr Gorgy has said to continue with humira anyway as it stays in the blood for about 6 months, but I'm concerned about the cost and don't want to be on it before I have to.

Also has anyone else found the injections incredibly painful? I'm not sure I'm doing it correctly?

Thank you


----------



## MissyMinx

Hi Ladies, 

Ells             YAY!!!  So so pleased for you. xx

Sflower, I'm so sorry I can't help with your question, but I'm sure that someone will be along to advise you soon.  I have heard that the Humira injection is very painful.  xx

Niccad, hello and  

Swinny, hellloooooooooooooo - how're you doing?  Itchy I hope!  Whenever you get a moment, I'd be really grateful if you could please let me know about the test.  I'm definitely going to go for it, do I just call Dr G?  Sending you huge  

Sorry ladies, I've got to get back to work, but I'll be on again later to do more personals.  I've just babbled on the LIT thread for about 20 minutes so I'd better crack on.

Sending you all   and  

Em.x


----------



## 3babies

[fly]*CONGRATULATIONS ELLS ON YOUR *[/fly]

*3RD TIME LUCKY  HUBBY MUST BE OVER THE MOON & YOU ON CLOUD NINE 

HOPE YOU HAVE GREAT NO'S *

2BABIES X


----------



## niccad

Sflower - Humira... OUCH!!! I was really surprised as I was just expecting a bit of a sting. It felt like I was injecting fire into my leg. I've heard that it's slightly better if you take it out of the fridge 30mins before using it. I've done 1 injection so far, the next one will be 2 weeks after the 1st & then retest after a further 3 weeks. If my cytokines have come down then I can start IVF straight away (a further 2 weeks for me due to timing). I hope this helps... x


----------



## ells

Thank you ladies for all your lovely messages, still in shock and cant quite believe this.  

Agate, thanks hun   .  I have rung Dr G and have to ring him back when my levels come back this afternoon.  All being well I will be having a drip tomorrow at Dr G's, he was thinking it will be IL at the moment but will decide once my levels are in.    I have also got my clexane, gestone and pred from my GP - he was really pleased and wrote my px out straight away.  I have a stack of cyclogest so dont think I will need to re-order them for a few weeks. My first scan is 9th April so should be 6 weeks, they are doing an early scan due to my crohns and blocked tube.

Sflower, I started my humria about 6 weeks before we started this cycle.  It does smart when you use it, I found injecting it slowly helped but also pinching it quite firmly.    As Niccad said take it out the fridge for at least 20 mins before you need to use it, helps it go in better.

Thanks again ladies,
Ells


----------



## berry55

Ells- Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So happy for you!!!! xxxx


----------



## ells

Hi ladies, my levels are in   ..... 417.2   .  Started shaking again .  Will be with Dr G at 12.30pm tomorrow if anyone else is about?

Ells


----------



## berry55

ells- thats fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Cozy

Ells,

Fantastic numbers. How many days past ET are you?

Cozy


----------



## 3babies

Those no's are great  poss more than one implanted 

    

Good luck with the drip tomorrow 



2babies x


----------



## Swinny

MissyMinx - I rang Dr g's secretary this morning and paid for the Hidden C test (£150). Apparantely she'll send me the sterile tube and paperwork that attaches and you then just need to post over to Peny @ Serum in Athens. I will PM you an email that Anna sent to me, as it gives all of the contact details


----------



## Chicky Licky

Hi Sarah - would you mind PM'ing me the details too please as I'm planning on getting the C test done too soon. Ta hun! 

Has anyone been told to have Intralipids on Day 7 and Day 12 (EC Day) by Dr Gorgy. Does that sound about right? I'm surprised about having one on EC day and am a bit panicked by that now as I'll be out at Reprofit in the Czech Republic for my cycle. I just hope they do it there! Any info would be much appreciated! 

Shellie
xx


----------



## Newday

Shellie they do it there and it's a lot cheaper I had 3 lots there
Dawn


----------



## Chicky Licky

Ah thanks Dawn, that puts my mind at rest. I'll email Stepan and arrange it then. Big phew!!!! 

How are you getting on now? Did you have the FE tx?

Shellie
xx


----------



## Cozy

Shellie,

I was told and have read that IVIg and Intralipids are best 7-14 days before ET. 

I had IVIg 12 days before and Intralipids 9 days before ET.

Yes I think it is cheaper to get it done at Reprofit. Donlt know how much, I didnt get a reply when I asked before my last cycle. HCAH are cheaper than Dr G.

Cozy


----------



## ells

Cozy - 12 dpt.

Ells


----------



## Chicky Licky

Thanks Cozy - I've got the 1st one booked in with [email protected] - easier and cheaper!!!

xx


----------



## agate

So if they were day 5 blasts, that's 17 DPO?  So you're in between the median HCG levels for a singleton or twins... not that those are definite anyway, but it could be twins?  woo!!!


----------



## ells

That would be so perfect   thanks Agate.

Ells


----------



## agate

I've been asked to post this info by another user:

"1. Dr G has been approved for LIT, but he is just waiting for the licence, he would do paternal as well as donor.
But for donor this would be possible using patients and each others partners.

2. Dr G has set up LIT clinic in egypt, it cost £350 for paternal and £450 for donor, all payments to be made to Dr G in uk
Lit would be done on saturday, so you travel to egypt on friday about 4hrs journey time, have lit on saturday, come back sat or sunday.

3.Dr Armstong has to renew his LIT licence so no lit at the moment.

4. Dr G is getting hot on the chlamydia "c" menstral blood test, and would be doing it for his patients depending on the history, he sends it to penny in athens."


----------



## -Starflower-

Thank you MissyMinx, Niccad and Ells. I'll try taking it out of the fridge half an hour earlier tonight.

I'd forgotten that I'll probably only need to inject humira twice, I think I had muddled it up with heprin. Thanks for clarifying it for me, it's a releif that the cost and the pain involved aren't going to be ongoing.

Congratulations Ells, that's fantastic news and encouraging for me too.


----------



## deegirl

Ells - I am so SO pleased for you, that is just fantastic news!    Over the last few weeks I have had so much on my mind and busy at work and really have been reading and running...to my shame   but I've been following your progress and to read this news has really lifted me today!  Well done hun, you are just such a lovely person always enquiring after other people.  I am thrilled  

Agate - Really grateful for you changing my appointment from paternal to donor, very good of you especially when you probably had so many questions to ask the busy Dr T himself.  I'm glad you got there and back safely, you can really relax now that you know you won't need anymore LIT.  Thanks also for telling him the situation and asking if it should be ok.  I'm gutted that I have to get donor as the thought of a strangers blood in my does give me the heebie jeebies.  However what's worrying me worse than that is the humira.  I know it does wonders for many ladies but I'm just worried about what I read about it.  My TH1 TH2 ratio was 31% and last year it was 22% so I'm thinking of getting Dr G to do an endometrial biopsy to see what my uNK cells are like to see if I really really need it.  What do you think?  

Dee x


----------



## agate

deegirl said:


> However what's worrying me worse than that is the humira. I know it does wonders for many ladies but I'm just worried about what I read about it. My TH1 TH2 ratio was 31% and last year it was 22% so I'm thinking of getting Dr G to do an endometrial biopsy to see what my uNK cells are like to see if I really really need it. What do you think?


I can't really comment because I didn't get to take humira in the end. But I guess what's comforting is that it is used a lot by people with e.g., RA and crohn's disease. It has to be your decision and I guess you have to decide which course of action you would regret the most taking it or not taking it. The biopsy would tell you about uNKs but of course unless you retest your TNFa you don't have much of an idea of where your blood TNFa is now... whether its going up or whether 31% was as high as its going to get. The biopsy does hurt though... that would be a factor for me.


----------



## deegirl

ooahch!  I know to expect that as I have yet to hear anyone say that it's ok, everyone says it's really painful   but I guess it's something I have to do.  I see what you mean about my TNFa, they could be rising or fluctuating.  I am waiting for Dr G to phone me back as he was in a meeting when I called.  Hopefully I can get that organised.  Thanks for the reply Agate, you are so lovely!  BTW the lymph node in my armpit has subsided...thankfully.  It started to subside very quickly after I text you about it.  I did email Dr T about it and he said that he sees these symptoms very rarely but that it could indeed be a reaction from the LIT, I think he was afraid that it was blood poisoning but my GP is happy now that it has gone down and has said that it should fully go down in about 4-6 weeks.  I'm a real worrier as soon as I spot anything out of the ordinary!


----------



## deegirl

Ells - did you get sorted with BUPA.  All I can say is that they sent me a cheque for £2000 all the tests etc with Dr G.  I didn't put anything through related to IVF on it (eg mock transfer) as they clearly say that IVF related things aren't included.  I'm planning to do SIS procedure with Dr G and maybe endometrial biopsy too (sore  ), they should cover it all as they state they cover all investigations into infertility.  Hope you get sorted hun.  I think they've prob made a mistake.


----------



## bunagirl

Just logged on, Ells, amazing news honey!!!!    Am so happy for you and DH!!!!  Take care of yourselves, and enjoy.  
Much love Bunagirl. XXX


----------



## Ourturn

Ells - my bets on twins  

Swinny - no probs.

Agate - thanks for the info. Will be in egypt end of May so may pop in for donor lit! 

Hi everyone

Guess what...just come home to a letter from the hospital saying my preop is Tuesday and my surgical hystoroscopy is Wednesday, consultant told us 3 weeks...must have had a cancellation  Just hope I can clear it with work!
Its good news as we start the antib's on Sunday (Dr G finally wrote the prescription today!)...so having the op near the start of the course means we stand a good chance of getting rid of the infection hiding in the scar tissue!

Info says I'll be on a mixed ward though...don't like the idea of that...especially with a gyny procedure  


Anna


----------



## Louiseb26

Hi Ladies

Ells - WOW i new it       Well done lovely...your numbers look so good.

Ratsy - I see you paid £116 for your C test.I'm thinking Dr G is charging me more money for things.I paid £200...will be looking into this.

Glad to to everyone is back safe from Athens...happy scratching ladies  

Lou xx


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## 3babies

Louise we paid 200euros direct in Athens to Penny early last year so it's about the same!

2babies x


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## tinks21

Hi Deegirl,  so sorry to hear you have been having such problems after your LIT.  I am pleased to hear your lymph node has subsided now.  All the best for your next LIT, I am sure it will all be fine, lots of ladies have a good response on donor LIT.  I am having my LAD retest on Tuesday so am hoping not to be joining you on the next clinic!!

I am afraid I don't know anything about Humira but I did speak to Dr Gorgy about it during one consultation and he was very reassuring about taking it.  He said there is a lot of hype over the side effects but in reality very few people seem to suffer any.  But, I can't speak from personal experience as I won't be taking it at all on my cycle.

The endo biopsy is VERY painful but, on the plus side - it is over reasonably quickly and you do get to find out if you have raised unk cells! (some consolation!)

Hi to everyone else...hope you have a great Friday.

Tinks xx


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## mag108

...re C test at Dr G's. I was charged £200 (sending it myself). And someone told me yesterday they got charged £150 for same thing.
.....


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## Saffa77

Ladies

Quick one - I had my retest of my NK killer essay done and sent the bloods through on Monday to get to Dr G on Tuesday 9am - when would i expect to get my results back so I can call Dr Gorgy?

Sx


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## agate

will probably be faxed on thursday night so probably friday but if not sat or mon - but you'd have to phone akbil first and get her to fax your results through to you before you arrange to speak to Dr G because he likes you to have looked at the results before the call.

I'm assuming you'd have to book a telecon to discuss - so probably best to sit down and jot down all the Qs about his recommentations for drips, meds and scans for the next few months so you get value for money from the telecon.


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## Chicky Licky

Ells - Fab news on your BFP!!!! Well done you!!!! xx


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## Ourturn

Hi everyone

Just had a consult with Mr G and he contradicted Penny. He doesn't think there is a link between C and immunes   He also thinks waiting 6 weeks to test after the finishing a course of antib's is unecessarily wrong. He is going to look into it. But I will take my steer from Penny around this...she is the expert on latent C. He wanted to treat my immunes in parrallel with my C treatment. In the end we agreed I would retest my nk's and tfn alpha 3 months after being clear of C (that's 3 months from completing the antib's that clear the blumming thing. 

At 1st he said I needed x2 humira with an IVIG drip along side my 2nd humira injection. But when I mentioned I had a chemical this cycle he thinks that may have caused the tfn alpha to rise. He still thought I should do humira + ivig...but that would cost 2k.....and the effects would only last 3 to 6 months...it may take me 3-6 months to clear the C so what is the point? 

As I said we agreed to retest immunes after C is cleared...I am hoping my tfn alpha will have come right down and I won't need his recommended treatment.

Anna x

PS He has had 7 ladies tested for C and I am the only one who is +ive...he has some others being tested.


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## Queenie13

Ells - Congratulations!  Delighted for you x


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## ratsy

Hi girls 

If possible could someone translate my blood results please 

NK ASSAY (% KILLED ) PANEL 

50: 1      20.4              limit 10  - 4

25:1        11.2                      5-30

12.5:1      7.2                      3-20

lgG conc ( 2,5 50.1            18.9
lgG        (12.25 25.1)        13.7
lgG        (6.25 50.1)          12.7
lgG        (6.25 25.1)          14.7

%CD3                              48.8
%CD19                              2.2
%CD56                              46.0
% of CD19 -cellsCD5+          40.9


LEUKOCYTE ANTIBODY DETECTION


FLOWCYTOMETRY              - NEGATIVE 

(T-cells ) lgM+                          1.0
(Tcells )  lgG+                            2.7
(Bcells)  lgM +                          11.3
(Bcells)lgG+                                29.1

DQ ALPHA ( dp ) 0301,0505
              (me)  0201,0303


TH1:INTRACELLULAR CYTOKINE RATIOS 

TNF-IL -10 (CD3+CD4)                  12.9                LIMITS -13.2 - 30.6
TFN-gIL10  (CD3+CD4)                  5.3                            5.8  -  20.5 

NK ASSAY W / INTRAPALID /NKT

50; 1 w / Intrapalid                        17.0
25; 1w  /intrapalid                          5.9
CD3+CD56+NKT CELLS% 

TB test negative 

Hidden C  test negative  

Thanks 

R   xx


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## Skybreeze

New home this way >> http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=232595.new#new


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