# Goldies IVF/ICSI Part 15



## Rachel

New home Goldies   

Lots of love and luck to you all xxxx


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## Fee

thanks all

Hoping Flopsy gets the result she deserves today

Fee xxxxxx


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## Mummyof2

Flopsy - thinking of you and hoping for  

let us know.

Jenny x


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## albali

Sorry is a very small word for the disappointment Fee but its heartfelt. Hope that no word from Flopsy is good news today. I'm now waiting to see if the 6 follicles I've got are growing. Back to the clinic tomorrow weds for another moment of truth. love and luck to all.xx


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## Flopsy

Dear Darling Goldies,

Thank you for all your messages of support.

Sadly, it was bad news for us today. The clinic called to say that it was a negative. This is the first time we have had to wait until the call so at least had a "proper" 2ww for a change.

I feel so choked up and tearful that I'm off for a good cry before I ring DH and tell him the bad news. Feel worse for him than myself.

Anyway, my wonderful "tiger team" after I have picked myself up from this heartbreak I will need to do a post-mortem of this cycle as it was the worst one yet. 

Any ideas appreciated.

Thank you all so much for the support and caring. It makes this almost bearable.

With love from,


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## Laine

Dear Flopsy

So very sorry to read your news sweetheart.

Laine x


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## Mummyof2

Albali - hope those 6 embies are growing well.

Flopsy - so very very sorry to hear that it was a negative result.  I was so hoping for a bfp for you, especially as your case is so difficult with the limited amount of sperm available to use.  Life really sucks sometimes.  Huge hugs to you both.  At least you know you did your best and as you say at least you had a proper 2ww this time.  I always bleed around CD9 so know how you feel on that one.

All the best

Jenny


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## Lois

Dear Flopsy

I am very sorry to hear your sad news . I know that no words are good enough. I'm just so sorry & want you to know that I am thinking of you.

Loisxxx


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## saphy75

flopsy, so sorry to read your news hun   i feel absolutley gutted for you and your dh, take care of each other, have a good cry and get plenty of cuddles   

pam xx


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## albali

Dear Flopsy, logged on specially to hear how you got on and so very very sorry to see it was negative. I cant think of anything else to say except that. love .xxxx


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## daisyg

Dear Flopsy,

I am so sorry to hear your news.  Take some time to care for yourself and DH now.  I am really sorry.
Daisy
xx


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## KimE

Flopsy, so sorry about your sad news. Just wanted to send you lots of hugs.
KimE x


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## dollyzx

Flopsy 
So so sorry & thinking of you lots xxx
Love Dollyzx xx


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## jayneanthea

Hello - I was beginning to think I was the only person on site over 38.

I too am sorry to hear the news - it always seems so unfair and I know how it is to think 'this is the one' - to have all hope dashed.

Hope your partner is giving you lots of cuddles  It may seem frivilous or flippant even but you need to really take care of yourself emotionally and physically - go somewhere and thoroughly spoil and pamper yourself. Valentines is a great time to give you an excuse to get away to get a fresh view of where you are, what you have and to just be close.

Take care of each other

X


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## Fee

Flopsy
Posted to you on 2ww - but so very, very sad for you and your dh. 

Fee xxxxxxxxxxx


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## Flopsy

Oh Goldies,

Thank you so much for all of your kind messages and for all of your support.

We are both still choked up with grief, anger, disappointment and hopelessness. however, we have been here before with IVF and know that it does get better.

I need to start asking some blunt questions soon and would like some input if anyone can give this.

1.Is it likely that any lasting or short-term damage has been done to my ovaries from the downregging disaster?

The previous clinics I spoke to would not try a long cycle as they believed (due to my age) that I would not "come out of" the downregging. This occured in the cycle I just had and it took massive amounts of stims over a long period to get response.

2. I need to tackle the clinic and ask them questions like this. Does anyone have any ideas on the best way for me to do this?

Any ideas/suggestions welcome.

With lots of love to all the Goldies from,


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## Plink

Flopsy

I can't answer your questions but just to say, sorry about your failed cycle and the difficulties with the p[rotocol.

I'm sure that ARGC will be able to answer your queries.

Re down-regging - I have never downregged and have only done short protocols. My response was similar for a large dose of Puregon, as it was for a much smaller (half) dose of Menopur. Though I got slightly less follicles with the lower dose, the number of eggs retrieved and embryos generated weren't much different (and it was a LOT cheaper!!)

I've been told that 
1 increasing drug dosage beyond a certain amount (?manufacturers recommended max??) is not going to help,and
2 that for older ladies the downregging isn't suitable as you may not be able to restart the ovaries again (ie push you into menopause presumably)

This is for oldies mind you (over 40++)
I guess the clinic will now tailor your protocol to you.

I also wonder if you give large doses of stimms whether you stimulate degenerate eggs to develop (one embryologist told me this)
I also think that if you have a large yield of eggs, it is not much use if many are immature/intermediate and won't fertilse. I think this can be related to the sort of stimms you get.

Hope this helps but doesnt add too many more questions!
Plink xx


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## Flopsy

Hi Plink,

Thank you very much for your message. It makes a lot of sense and I appreciate all of the information.  We can't afford another cycle but I would at least like to know what went wrong for my own peace of mind and if we want to make a complaint.

I've been giving it some thought along these lines

1. The clinic should never have used a long protocol on me
2. They should have monitored better and picked up the lack of response earlier
3. They should have offered a free cycle or similar

Plink - you are absolutely right about the high stimms. Once the mistake was made they then used the high dosage to try and milk any response out of me. The number of usable eggs and embies was the worst ever result for us.

Normally I respond really well to a medium dose of stims and we usually have embies and some to freeze. Not this time...

What I don't know is

1. What permanent/short term? damage has been done through the menopause effect of their mistake of the long cycle 

2. How do I find out?

3. How to tackle this. I made an appointment with the clinic but have to wait over a month which is not OK.

If anyone has any more ideas or experience please let me know here or IM me.

With love from,


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## Plink

Flopsy

Appreciate your questioning even if you won't now repeat the attempt.
I'm no expert but I think if your cycle has recommenced post-cycle then it is likely to return to normal??

I don't know if there is anyone on here who has had a long protocol and subsequently their cycles did not return properly. If there is then they may be able to help.

Re your wait for review - this may be a good thing. If your next AF comes at the right time then I would say that there is little chance that the downreg affected your natural cycle. 
Presumably one would know whether your natural cycle has been affected by the downreg only if you wait to see if it returns normally.

Hope this helps - to my mind I wouldnt think that a single long protocol would advesrely affect you particularly if your cycle returns afterwards.

By the time you go for review you may have more info re your cycle. Also you can test this month to see if you ovulate using a monitor, if you are concerned.

Hope this helps
Plink xx


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## albali

Hello Flopsy. I can understand your fury and worry. I echo Plink entirely. I think the month wait although it sounds terrible now is good for the reasons she  mentions and also for you to recover and be calmer before you see them. They will probably only say wait til your af returns  anyway. Sorry I have no other helpful info for you.


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## Flopsy

Hi Plink and Albali,

Thank you very much for your kind and sensible words.

Both the Hammersmith and the UCH told me that it was too dangerous to do a long protocol and that it could result in long term or permanent damage.

One of the reasons is I am so upset is that the clinic has made a terrible error, taken no responsibilty and are refusing to see me in reasonable time.

The doctor who does my immune system testing says that I need immediate attention on this and that the clinic should be doing the investigations. This is serious and a "wait and see" approach isn't going to tell me very much without the monitoring he says that I need.

I will do a home ovulation test but it should be their responsibility to at least investigate their error.  The immune docs say that I need proper hormone tests over the next couple of months to determine what has happened.

I've left a message asking the clinic director to call me to discuss but nothing so far.  If I don't hear from him I will ask the doctor who does the immune testing to talk to him - after all it was he that recommended I go there due to their superior methods....

I'll keep looking for any published research but any ideas appreciated.

with love to all the Goldies from,


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## Rice cake

Hi Flopsie
on my 1st IVF cycle I was on the long protocol and I shut down too much and only got 1 follicle and the cycle had to be cancelled.I was also very scared that after the long down regging my ovaries would not get going again.On the next two cycles I was on the short protocol and got much more response but only from one ovary.The other ovary does not respond much and I often only get one egg from it.You never know that could be through the long down regging the 1st time around but overall I got enough embryos each time on the short protocol for three good embryos to be put in each time but none for the freezer.
After the long protocol it took much longer than normal for my period to start but after that it went back to normal.


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## Flopsy

Dear L,

Thank you so much for your reply and sharing your experiences. Jenny is the other one who appears to have been badly affected by a long cycle.

I'm looking thru on-line journals to see if there has been any research into this problem but nothing so far.

Hopefully the clinic will talk to me and will arrange monitoring. I found Jenny's earlier message that said she had a false "fsh" reading for about 3 months as it took that long for the downregging drugs to leave her system.

I'll let you all know how I get on.

With warmest regards,


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## billeah

Hi flopsy and everyone else hope you are all ok, Sorry to butt in on your ongoing thread but i couldn't hold back any longer ! 

Although i have never posted before i have been reading your messages with great interest and was really saddened about your news. I hope that in time you and DH feel more positive about the whole thing. If there are questions on your mind then you should just ask them and see what excuses your clinic gives you, otherwise you will be just wonder what did go wrong. I speak from experience after about 5 failed IUI's i just got fed up with "too many follicles" developing too much stim and not enough monitoring and me feeling it was my fault all the time when infact i was just another "patient" who the clinic didn't really have time for. We ended up going for IVF (privately) at a total different clinic, and feel positive that we are doing the right thing. Please try not to give up hope, every cycle can produce different results each time BUT if you feel your clinic is to blame ( and usually you know in your heart) then i would make a complaint and try and get a free cycle out of them .. its the least they can do for you. 

I have been reading the various posting from everyone and i am concerned to read the downregging can cause total menopause( i wasn't aware of this) i will be down regging for a total of 29 days before stimms... should i be worried? 


Azz


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## littleJen

Hello all
I thought I'd dip my toe in this thread for the first time, having turned the big 4-0 3 days ago   

Flopsy, I can imagine how completely frustrated and angry you must be. ARGC are so good overall. I would also have expected an offer of a free cycle. After all, it was their fault about this one. But I guess they might have a different view!

I've been on long protocol twice. Response not disastrous (11 and 8 eggs) on 225/300 menopur (for 13 days though). Downregged for 13 days each time. Had some good quality embies from lower stims dose, worse with higher, but not sure if that's a causal effect.

I'm now planning to change to a US clinic that has particularly good results for older ladies! In our first consultation they said they would not have downregged me. They didn't actually mention adverse effects on the cycle, but they did emphasise the fact that once older ladies' ovaries are shut down, it takes quite a lot to get them going again, so the dose of stims has to be relatively high. They will put me on a microdose (lupron) flare protocol, which as you know just has small doses of downregging starting on day 2 of cycle to prevent ovulation, followed by stim drugs (hopefully lower and shorter dose!). They would expect a better response compared to a long protocol.

After my BFN in January I've ov'd 8 days late (did OPTs as I was a bit concerned about what was going to happen to my cycle!). I was relieved.

I expect it's unlikely that the drugs have any lasting effect. But there probably are cases where they seem to. And I'm totally with you on worrying about it!

Love
Jen


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## albali

Hello flopsy and everyone else. I dont know much about the medical side of things but I do know a bit about complaining. I doubt the clinic will ever admit that they have made a mistake, but its in their interests to put it right and deal with someone who is not happy with their service. More so than any other clinic. So I would stick with them to see if you can get what you want from them, which is  1 monitoring/ ie tests, 2 correction ie a free cycle. If your immune doc says you should not wait then perhaps I would try to get him to write a letter of recommendation - dr to dr. They listen to other doctors more than patients.  Do you have an NHS consultant gynae or GP who could get you the tests sooner? You want them to put right what they got  wrong and probably the most effective way of doing that is with  free cycle I would say.  It will help them to retreive the  situation also. kind regards. xx


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## Flopsy

Hi Azz,

Nice to hear from you and thanks for posting. I was told that the potential menopause problem was only applicable to women over 40.  

Although you say each cycle can be difficult I already had 2 fresh short cycles under my belt and they behaved in a very similar way. In other words the short protocol worked very well for me with a quick response to lowish stims & a good number of eggs for my age (12-15).  There were always embies to freeze.

When I saw Dr Beer and had my appointment at the ARGC it was felt that the key for me was to add the immune modulators so that my immune system would not reject the embies.

However, by insisting on a long protocol and then failing to address the problems with that quickly and adequately (although they did work with me and try to sort it out) they introduced an un-needed new problem into the mix.

I'm not sure about the free cycle as it will depend on how I now function and how long it takes to get back to normal. Will be interesting to see what they offer though.

I'm really sorry to hear about how you were treated. It's just not fair is it! Good luck with your IVF cycle.

With love from,


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## Flopsy

Jen,

Welcome to the Goldies. Belated Happy Birthday and congratulations, commiserations on reaching 40! 

I'm really interested to read your experience of the American clinics as I'm been doing a lot of reading on different protocols over the past few months.

Your clinic certainly sounds as if they have the right idea.

With so many women over 40 having immune treatments it does sound strange the the UK clinics are doing so little to fine-tune cycles for our needs. I am still gob-smacked that the ARGC would do this and then fail to tailor the protocol when I failed to respond.  It's obvious to me now what needed to be done and when. They did work with me to get things going but far too late in the cycle.

I've still got some home ovulation tests left over from my FET so I'll be using those. Also will be talking to my GP next week again.

Good luck with your protocol. Will you let us know how it gets on?

With love from,


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## Flopsy

Dear Albali,

Thank you for the moral support and the help with complaining. I've composed a list of errors and questions. It's quite a good one and I've managed to find a few more pertinent things.

Dr Beer has a business relationship with the clinic and I'm not sure how much he will do on my behalf. There are a few other doctors I can think of who could help but this will cost money (which we certainly don't have after this debacle).

I've spoken to my GP and am seeing her again next week. Hopefully she can get some monitoring tests sorted out.

I only hope that the clinic is as ready as I am to sort things out.

Thanks again!

With love from,


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## Rice cake

Hope for us all -Kimberly Quinn presumably giving birth after a natural conception aged 44-Here is an extact from the Times .If it was not a natural conception there could be no dispute over who is the father.
  

"The ex-lover of former Home Secretary David Blunkett has reportedly given birth to a boy.

Kimberly Quinn, 44, had the child by planned Caesarean section at St Mary's Hospital in Paddington, west London, according to The Daily Mail and The Sun.

Mr Blunkett has previously claimed that the child is his. He is currently engaged in a legal bid to gain access to Ms Quinn's two-year-old son, after tests reportedly established that he was the boy's father."


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## Flopsy

Hi L,

Thanks for posting the info about Kimberley Quinn as I had completely forgotton her age.

Before she had this baby,her husband (supposedly) was reported as saying that he knew this one was his, because they were having fertility treatment. Then another report to say (allegedly) that she was sleeping with Blunket and having fertility treatment with her hubby at the same time.

What a complicated situation!  That is if any of it is true I suppose.

With warmest regards,


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## Flopsy

Hi Goldies,

What a cr*p week. I can barely get together enough to celebrate Valentines tomorrow but had luckily arranged a treat and a present before it all went so spectacularly wrong!

We are off to a smoochey classical music concert and I'm really forward to that now.

I do have some good news. Today I met with the owner of the clinic that I had my failed cycle with. We had a "full and frank" exchange of views.

The end result is that they intend to monitor my situation and there is the possibility of further treatment. I can't say anything else publically about it.

I must say that the owner was very brave and did not shrink from my criticisms. He was also able to fight his corner but without the bullying i've experience elsewhere. I still think that his clinic is the best in my experience and that we made a good team. I would like to continue working with them.

The problems stem from my dealings with some staff members who I think let the side down. One has already left.

Meeting face-to-face meant that I was able to talk and work through my feelings and fears. So, that's good news but I'm exhausted and shell-shocked right now. I'll digest it during the week.

With love to all the Goldies from,


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## susanah

Dear Flopsy

I'm so sorry that you've been through so much heart ache  

I'm glad that you got to see Mr T. to voice your major worries and concerns.  I just hope that one day, you'll get a positive out come. 

Try and keep strong. 

Love
Susanah


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## albali

Hello flopsy. That sounds quite a good meeting and hopefully resolution. As if you didnt have enough to cope with..... take care. love and luck


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## Flopsy

Hi Goldies,

Has anyone any experience of the SIRM Estrogen priming protocol for the over 40's? I've been reading a lot about different protocols since our last disaster.

Here is a snip that explains it

<START>
SIRM's "Estrogen Priming LP" involves the initial administration of GnRHa for a number of days to effect pituitary down-regulation. Upon menstruation and confirmation by ultrasound blood estradiol measurement that adequate ovarian suppression has been achieved, the dosage Lupron is drastically lowered for the duration of follicular phase (until hCG is given), or it is replaced by Antagon or Cetrotide and the woman is given twice-weekly injections of estradiol for a period of 7-10 days. Ovarian stimulation with a relatively high dosage of FSH-dominant gonadotropins such as Follistim, Gonal F or Bravelle is then initiated for a few days whereupon the gonadotropin dosage is reduced significantly. The combination of FSH, GnRHa or antagonist and estrogen therapy is continued until approximately the 7th day of stimulation with gonadotropins, whereupon estrogen is gradually reduced or immediately withdrawn and the agonist or antagonist/gonadotropin therapy is continued until the day of hCG administration. Using this approach we have been able to significantly improve ovarian response and produce many viable pregnancies in numerous cases where all hope had been abandoned.

While use of the "modified Estrogen priming LP) does NOT guarantee improved follicle development, it does in our experience, optimize the response of women with ovarian resistance. We have been using such protocols successfully for several years.
<END>

http://www.haveababy.com/infert/poorresponder.asp

With love from,


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## albali

Hello Flopsy. Where do you find these pieces of research? I'm interested myself but find it difficult to understand, Just reading it I thought the problem with over 40's was the suppression of the ovaries at the start. My experience wasnt good with a sort flare protocol (one day buserilin) and so he put me on clomid followed by menopur (stimulant)and cetrotide (to stop ovulation). I dont know how this compares with this protocol that you have discovered but my consultant is supposed to have a special interest/expertise in stimulation response.  Can you ask your own consultant to "translate" that protocol for you or to evaluate it? Sorry not to be able to help more  love albali


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## daisyg

Hi Flopsy,

I'm not sure about Sher's protocol.  It is mainly for poor responders I believe.  I am slightly sceptical about SIRM as their over 42 success rates are not good at all (they also refuse submit their success rates to the US equivalent of the HFEA which makes me wonder).

It is hard to know.  IVFConnections would be a good place to ask (but it is down at the moment).

I did a lot of research into US clinics and had consultations with SIRM, CCRM and Cornell.  I went with Cornell because of their over 40 success rates and the fact that they are a research hospital which cycles hundreds of women a year (and lots of over 40s).

Why don't you have a free phone consult with SIRM and then you could see what you think about the protocol as it applies to you?  It is really hard getting clinics to follow other protocols, but you may be able to tweak you next cycle with more info.

Are you asking because you want to tweak your protocol in the UK or are you considering trying a US clinic?  I have been on the short FSH/antagon protocol for all my ivfs (no down regulation at all).  

The difference with the Cornell protocol (which I feel was the best) was that they used Puregon 300iu plus Repronex 150iu(FSH/LH combined).  They started the cycle on day 2 and they did not recommend down reg. for my age (44).  They also checked my bloods every day, and reduced the FSH dose on the last couple of stim. days. ie. they went for quality and not over-cooked eggs.  They believe that overly aggressive stimming can lead to poorer quality eggs (although the doses were quite high and I stimmed for about 10 days).  Of course the big advantage of the US is they can put back more embryos and I was luck to make 6 embies and have all replaced.

Sorry to go on but I am keen to help if I can with any info.

Wishing you all the best.

Daisy
xx


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## Mummyof2

Flopsy - sorry, can't help on this but just wanted to reassure you that I did return to normal eventually after being shut down from the down regging drug and having the cancelled IVF cycle.  I had FSH checked the other month and it is back to normal ie was 3.2 two months after being shut down but it is now 5.6 so back to normal after a long rest from any treatment.  I didn't ovulate for 2 months after cancelled IVF cycle so was panicking.  When I did eventually ovulate, that month I became pregnant naturally but mc later.  I am now ovulating every month again.  

All the best to everyone.

Jenny


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## Flopsy

Thank you Goldies for your replies!

I'm just reading around and trying to understand all the alternatives.

Daisy - sadly we cannot afford a USA clinic but you are right about the number of embies being helpful at this age. I'll mention this to Mr T. at the ARGC as he is one of the few doctors I have met who doesn't mind considering things.

Where are you at right now? So sorry that I have got lost with your tx.

Albali - thanks for sharing your protocol. I'm trying to get my head around all the different ones available for the over-40's. Hope you are OK and the 2ww is getting better. Sending hugs to you!

Jenny - I'm really glad to hear that ovulation came back after 2 months for you. Must have been a really awful time though esp. with the m/c shortly after. You have been through so much.  Thanks for all of your help.

Susanah - thank you very much for your earlier message. When I met with Mr T. he was very supportive.  Hope we both get there!

Thank you once again for all of your support!  I'm stuck at home with a chest/sinus infection and allergies (from flowers) on top of that so feeling a little stressed....

With love from,


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## daisyg

Hi Flopsy,

Just a quick note.  Obviously Mr. T would only be able to put back 3 embies max. (is this what you meant about asking Mr. T?).  Most UK ivf docs. I have spoken to think 3 max for over 40 is ridiculous (the chance of multiples is almost 0 at our age).  However, they have to stick to this unfortunately.  If one makes more than 3 you have to hope that the best are transferred and run the risk of having none make it to freeze.  Or alternatively do PGD and try to isolate chromosomally normal ones.

Sorry if I've misunderstood.  Let me know if I can help.

I am moving on to Donor egg now in Spain (or poss. South Africa).  I seem to get pregnant easily, but my blood-clotting disorders coupled with age have probably contributed to my 3 miscarriages.  

I could try 1 more time with own eggs, but I need success now and I believe DE coupled with Dr. Beer's help ref. blood-clotting is the best chance I have of a baby.  Plus if I spend all my money I won't be able to look after a baby!

I simply could not face the high chance of miscarriage with my own eggs as I am 45 this week! (My next dilemma is that Spain's DE program is anonymous, and I would love an open donation for my child).  This is obviously a very personal view.

Wishing you and all the Goldies the best of luck.

Daisy
xxx


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## albali

Hello Daisy? Where are you going in Spain?  Have you been there yet for your appt? How are you getting on? I'm 46, waiting on the 2ww for what I think will be my one and only go at ivf, before about DE. Just wondered how you are getting on especailly with your desire for open donation as that may suit me too. love albali


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## daisyg

Hi albali,

I'm probably going to ivi Valencia.  I have also been offered donor embryos here in the UK.  However, I have some issues about donor embryo in ref. to how a potential child may feel.

The only way to have an open donation is in the US or to go through Renew Body Soul agency in South Africa, where they have pictures and detailed info. about donors (some of whom are ok with open donation).

Basicially, I am dithering because part of me would like another go with my own eggs.  I only started to try and get pregnant at age 44 and did get pregnant on each of my 3 ivfs.  Because I have now been diagnosed with 2 blood-clotting disorders, I am not convinced that all my m/cs were 'old eggs'.  I have got pregnant on each ivf - I have not heard of this happening very often to a 44 year old.

Wishing you the very best for this cycle.

Daisy


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## Flopsy

Dear Daisy,

Just wanted to wish you a Happy Birthday for this week or a belated Happy Birthday as I have probably missed it.

Thank you for all the ideas and support. When you used the word "dithering" in your last post I realised that summed me up perfectly.

Feel like I am in a race against time against an obstacle that looks bigger and bigger.

Hope that the blood disorder stuff works out. I am on Clexane and baby asprin for each cycle now.

I really do agree with you over the "old eggs" question. There must be some reason why you get pregnant each time and m/c. I was trying to think of a list for a "serial IVF failures thread" along these lines.

1. Immunity issues - as per Dr Beer and *******
2. Blood disorders
3. Immunity issues - as per Dr Carter
4. Bacterial infections - as pr Dr Toth
5. Other immunity issues - as per St Mary's recurrent miscarriage clinic

Good luck.

With love from,


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## daisyg

Hi Flopsy,

Thanks very much for your good wishes.  Yes, I am now 45!!
This is one of the deciding factors in me moving onto donor eggs despite the fact that I get pg on ivf.  I just can't spend months and months and more £s on treatment that, even with clexane etc, still has a very high miscarriage risk now due simply to my age.  I am single and am worried that if I spend all my money, I won't be able to support a child!

Anyway, I hope you are finding some answers to help you move forward.  Part of me feels quite excited about DE because I feel that at last I have a really good chance of a baby this time after 3 devastating miscarriages.

The idea of the ivf failures thread is interesting.  Although I do wonder how much the blood-clotting issue contributed I think I do have to be realistic about old eggs.  Even Dr. Beer seems to have very few successes over 43.

Ref: ivf failures:-
FSH/E2
Quality of the lab. - this is important
Quality of the stim. protocol
PGD can look at aneuploidy (perhaps for closure, to confirm that eggs are indeed old! or be pleasantly surprised perhaps? But the jury is still out as to whether this really is the answer to AMA).
Sperm issues
Uterine issues, fibroids, endo, etc. etc.

Please don't take any notice of my slightly negative outlook.  I am really excited about DE but obviously still wonder about my own eggs.  I just don't think I have the financial or emotional ability to do it again with so little chance of it working.  Cornell (one of the world's top clinics) still gave me only a 5% chance of a live birth even though I make 6 grad A embryos on every ivf and got preg. on each one!

Flopsy, I really hope you can get some answers a find a good way forward.

I am wishing you and all the Goldies success, no matter which path we choose.

Good Luck (and thanks for listening to my vent!).
Daisy
xx


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## albali

Hello Daisy and Flopsy.  I too only tried to get pg at age 44 - when I met up with dp-and this is my first go at ivf. I was delayed enormously at the start because I think I had a wrong FSH reading after taking clomid and the clinic  put my age and elvated level together and told me  no chance apart from DE. So I spent 6 months trying to lower FSH and then fell pg natuarally and then m/c at 8 weeks. So it all took 2 years in all - and now I'm46 on my first ivf. Test date 4th March and the the odds of a 46 year old on teh first ivf cycle is miniscule, but I still had to spend my £2k to find out out. My sister has just fallen pg at age 44 so its is possible. As for dithering I know what you mean. Do I go straight for DE or wait and see if it happens again naturally. I think that ivf again will be a waste of money for me. As you say, have you ever heard of it at this age.  What I think i might do is give myself the summer off- if I can. I think from what you say there is something in your blood clotting disorder diagnosisThen on the other hand I just keep thinking to myself do I want to live my life  doing all this infertility stuff- being childless and living that life or do i want to spend my time (as I really do) looking after and bringing up a child and why am I waiting when they tell me the chances with DE are really very high in comparison. And the clock doesnt tick, it bongs. For me I think that as harsh as it was at the start DE shoudl have been my first option but of course I couldnt bring myself to so that. I had to wait 2 years and £2k plus later to come to that conclusion.  Flopsy, I was going to post to ask you how you are getting on , but i  see now. Fraid this is another bit of a ramble. Do you /can you articulate your worries about DE. i could fill a whole post with it. Thats proabably why I'm giving myself teh summer off in truth. better post before I lose the connection. love alabali


----------



## daisyg

Hi albali,

I totally understand what you are saying.  I think only you can know when and if you feel ready for DE.  There certainly is no cut and dried answer.  I really feel it is important to feel one has tried everything one wants to do before moving on.  That maybe trying naturally or iui or ivf or even just taking a break from it all - every person is different.

Whatever you decide I wish you the very best.  This is such a difficult and stressful thing to deal with.

Daisy
xx


----------



## albali

Hi daisy yes one can only move forward at a certain rate. Logically one should be able to rationally assess the odds and then make the best decision , but its more organic than that. You have to be able to satidfy yourself that you did everything. I keep going from wildly excited about DE ( because I really think it will work - those young eggs) and panicking about the consequences not knowing donors history, looks, feelings of child etc etc.  Good luck in your decision. Keep posting love albali


----------



## Flopsy

Hi Goldies,

Just wanted to jump in and share some good news. Albali has posted on another thread that she got a BFP!!!!

Hurray for ALBALI!!!!  Congratulations.

Hurray for the Goldies!

With love from,


----------



## albali

Hello everyone especially Flopsy and Jen (read your post onthe other thread). I had to go away Sat/sun and no internet access at work (worried because they can read them all) , but still BFP 3 days on. I was telling my friend who trained as a doctor and he came up with somethign interesting which may explain m/c (flopsy and daisy). Apparently m/c are more common with female embryos. The research they have done shows this. So one of the reason to explain m/c may be that each time it is a fertilised female an not male. Interesting eh? will post this


----------



## albali

Me again- I get frustrated when the connection goes and my post with it before its sent. As you can imagine I really dont believe or trust this BFP. I keep waiting waiting of course for the bad news, but you can never tell with this business. They give you statistics, but thats all they are statistics. They frighten me though!!. thanks for all you support. I will keep posting because its so great this site. love and luck to all. albali


----------



## jhs

Hi all, I am a newbie on this thread, I am 42 and at present going thru my 2nd IVF and would like some advise.  I have been stimming now for 8 days with Menopur x 6, two days ago when I was scanned i only showed 6 follicles in total but only 2 that measured 11 and 12.  I was asked to see the doc and put told to inject now 6 menopur and 1 citrotide and come in to the clinic every other day where they will monitor my progress and take blood.  My question is, what is the blood for and is it a really bad sign I have so little follicles? Sorry for my naivety! Jacx


----------



## crocodile

Firstly can I say congrats to tat albali I wish you a very happy and healthy pregnancy..fly the flag for us Goldies

Jac I have only one IVF under my belt but I was on the same protocol as you and I had a similar thing.  On day 7 I was told I only had 3 follicles and they were very small but on day 9 I suddenly had 8 and some of them were so big 20mm 19.5mm etc that I was in danger of ovulating so I had to have 2 doses of cetrocide within 8 hours to stop it from happening.

I don't know about the bloods but wanted to reassure you that sometimes the drugs kick in and you go 0-60 in 2 secs!!
And what really matters is not the number but the quality, you only need one good one, so please try not to worry

Good Luck

Croc


----------



## crocodile

Sorry me again...

meant to say hi to flopsy and daisy and everyone else


----------



## Liz11

Hi to everyone on this thread - wanted to ask your advise 
I have posted here some of you may remember me 

I had my 9th txt in Jan at Bourne Hall - I have decided to give it another go and wanted some advise on clinics 

My Doc at BH said that it would be a good idea to go to the UCH in London think that is the same as the ACU .. as he would like be to have embrio screening - 

My question is I would like to pick two clinics that are good - second opinions are always good and it will feel like a king of fresh start to me - 

I was thinking of the Care in Nottingham and the UCH as my doc recommended it - 
Have any of you ladies been to those or have any recommendation or thoughts ? 

many thanks

x


----------



## albali

Hello jhs. Dont worry too much about your response. I was exactly the same, and then I think he kept me on it for 10-11 days (cant remember exactly) but I agree, they sometime grow at a stable rate and sometimes go  from 0-60. You just have to go the distance and see what happens because noone can or will tell you what to expect. Seems as though they are doing the job right by monitoring you every other day and taking bloods. They are to test for such things as oestrogen levels. They can tell whats going on ie anothe diagnostic tool. Also the number of follicles worried me as well- I think I had only had 6 and was worried that they wouldnt let me go onto to ec. I think the standard is at least 2 at 18mm for collection. Just keep going. My first one was a complete right off because of something that couldnt be anticipated, but then i went onto my 2nd one and so far so good. Good luck. Keep posting and let us know how you get on.  Croc - thanks for your good wishes. I keep counting the days  and I've already worked out if I get to the fist bank holiday, then if I get to the second may bank holiday and so on. keep on posting to let us tknow how you are getting on.  Flopsy/Daisy where are you two up to?love to all albali


----------



## alessandra

HY girls, my name is Aless and I have never posted here before. I wanted your advce because I am a bit confused. I've done 4 IUIs and felt pg. I missed the pg. After that I've done another IUI and a natural bd. Obviously I am not pg. This month I didn't do anything because ARGC wanted to test for killer cells. The result came back with sthg "slightly high" but nothing "that can't be treated with medication". I told them that I was ready for IVF and they told me to go for the first blood test on day one of my cycle. But I haven't had the full discussion with drs because they are fully booked until mid-april and I will be too late by that time. I was decided to do IVF and then I am full of doubts!! Is it not too much rush into things? I felt pg at the 4th attempt and then only tried with one IUI after that (and 2 natural attempts). Is it not too quick? I wanted to do it because of my age and the higher statistics. But is it right?? Please ADVICE. Sorry for the me me me. I promise to read everything soon. My dh is now waiting to do bd because I detected the surge. 
many thanks for any advice!
aless


----------



## daisyg

Hi Alessandra,

Sorry you are feeling so confused.  This process is very confusing.  Firstly, you are at a very good clinic with ARGC so that is a plus point.  Just to clarify - you got pregnant after 4 iuis and miscarried?  Did ARGC do any miscarriage blood tests (e.g. blood-clotting etc.)?  They obviously tested you for NK Cells and have found them raised.

Firstly, I would not advise any further treatment/TTC until you are sure which medication you will be taking for the raised NK Cells.

Secondly, it is a difficult choice between more IUIs and ivf.
Have you had iuis with injectables yet?  How did you respond?  The good news is you can get pregnant.  So, you could continue with a couple more injectable cycles of IUI.  Statistically over 40 IUI is most successful if it is with FSH injections and trigger shot and insemination.

The benefit of ivf would be to increase your chances due to being able to produce multiple eggs and having controlled fertilization in vitro.  You will get a bit more information about the quality of your embryos this way - this will help with decisions about further treatment (if you don't get pregnant).

The best thing would be to talk to ARGC about which treatment will have the best chance (and which medication you need for immune issues).  You could always do a couple of injectable iui cycles, then an IVF cycle so you are not wasting too much time.

The most important thing is that you do not do any more treatment until you have treated the raised killer cells and any other issues which may increase your miscarriage risk.

Certainly over 40 time is of the essence, so I am sure that is why ivf is being recommended.  As you get to 40+, ivf would be an appropriate treatment given the urgency.

I'm sorry if I have confused you more.  Please let me know if I can help with anything else.

Good Luck
Daisy
xx


----------



## jhs

Hi
Just wanted to say thanks croc and albali for you advice.  As you mentioned it appears it has all come right after all, I now have 6 follicles 2 of which are in the 19teens, so it appears I will be having ec on Monday or Tuesday depending on the bloods they have taken today.  Starting to cross fingers and toes and anything else, I am now pleased that they have been monitoring me, it appears they are taking more care this time round.  Thanks again, will keep you posted. Jacx


----------



## Flopsy

Hi Goldies,

Sorry to have been AWOL for a while but I have some goodish news that I would like to share with you.  I am now in my 5th 2ww!

It been a horrible couple of months on the rollercoaster and I have been too scared to talk about what has been happening.

After our disaster cycle the ARGC monitored me to check hormonal levels etc. Dr Beer (who advises on immune issues) wanted me to have a FET asap whilst the expensive drugs were still in my system.  

I was still reeling from the failure and didn't feel able to talk about what was happening. 

Also I didn't feel at all confident that our 2 last frosties would survive the thaw. However BOTH DID in the end!!

The transfer was on Sunday last (the 6th).  Very grateful to Mr Taranissi who has been kind and supportive all through this.

Although ovulation was later than normal we still managed to get to the transfer and I now have 2 embies on board (I hope!).

Test date is Friday the 18th as they were day 3 embies when frozen. They are from our first attempt in 2003.  The clinic did not even want to freeze them at the time because they were not good quality. At that stage we had no further sperm tissue to use and I had to get really insistant with them to freeze.

The ARGC did not agree with the pessimistic attitude of the old clinic and thought they looked good (on paper). They must be tough little darlings to have survived.

So Goldies, it's taken all of my courage to type this message and I'll have to stop now. Phew - actually feel better after getting this off my chest.

Albali, Daisy, Jenny and Croc - sending lots of positive vibes to you! Thank you for all of your kind words.

lots of love to you all,


----------



## Megan10

Wow Flopsy,
What an amazing story. With what you have been through in the last few weeks you must be reeling. 
I am wishing you all the luck in the world for your 2ww.....what a woman!!
        
Take care,
MeganXX


----------



## Mummyof2

Flopsy -  I did notice you were having treatment when I posted to albali so no hiding from me    I am really hoping for   for you this time.  Good luck for the 18th.

Albali - wonderful news all is progessing fine.  Keeping fingers and toes crossed for you.

Jhs - good to hear that all has progessed ok in the end  

Daisy - sound advice as always.  How are you?

As for me I am half way through my adoption preparation course which is interesting in parts but lots of role play which I dislike.  Still should focus on the outcome next year when we will get a child so it will be worth it.  

All the best to all the goldies.

Jenny


----------



## daisyg

Hey Goldies!

Nice to hear from you Jenny - glad to hear you are progressing towards your goal, I know it takes time but it will be wonderful when it happens (whichever way it happens!)

Albali - Hope all well with you.  You are an inspiration really.

Flopsy - Sneaking in a crafty FET eh?  Wishing you so much luck - you have been through the mill.

jac - good luck for ec.

Croc and all the other Goldies - wishing you the best of luck.

I am waiting to start a DE cycle with ivi Valencia.  Unfortunately I have just had a consult with Dr. Beer and can add raised TH1/TH2 levels to the 2 genetic clotting disorders I have.  Will have to now have Humira before my cycle then Clexane and aspirin throughout the whole of pregnancy and 6 weeks after (if I'm lucky enough to get pg!).  I may also have to have IVIG.


Feel very sad that the docs. didn't test me for this stuff until I had miscarried 3 times.  I think they just assumed that I wouldn't get pg. through my ivf and the m/cs were all old eggs.  This makes me very sad and angry that a simple blood test could have alerted them to my blood-clotting issues.  Anyway, I'll never know if we could have prevented the m/cs.  But I defied the odds and got pg on 3 out of 3 ivfs.

Now unfortunately I have no more money for ivf - just one last chance and DE will give me the best shot now that I am 45 and have all these immune issues.

Sorry to vent, but I am pretty sad about it all.  Albali has made me wonder whether I should have 1 more go with my own eggs....but no money now.

Anyway, all the best to you.

Daisy
x


----------



## alessandra

DaisyG, Many many thanks for your email. I am sorry about your story and I wish you the best in your next steps.

I arranged an app for next week with a nurse at ARGC to have a full discussion about the future. I would like to try with IVF, specially because ARGC is such a good clinic and I will be living here only until July. It seems a good oportunity to try with one of the best clinics around. I have already done one cycle of injectables and I've responded well with menopur. About the killing cells, dr didn't sound worried and he didn't mention any need to do sthg before tx. I'll follow your advice and ask the nurse next week. What I really want is to take the bull by the horns, but I wouldn't like to do sthg wrong in such an important decision.

Flopsy, your story is SOOOOOOOOO encouraging. And you are really tough, CONGRATULATIONS!!! I am very happy for you and I am sure everything will be right. 

Love, a


----------



## daisyg

Hi Alessandra,

I think your plan to 'go for it' with ARGC is a good one.  I think IVF will give you the best chance.  

Regarding IUIs - they are ok if you have patent fallopian tubes (which you do) and as they are cheaper than ivf, you can do more of them for the money.  But, they have a lower success rate for a 40 year old.  I think an ivf will give you a lot more information about your embryos and hopefully you won't have to think about more treatment because you will be pg!

You can always continue with IUI if you want after ivf, but I believe it sounds like the time is right for you at ARGC with ivf.

Wishing you lots of luck whatever you decide.

Daisy
xx


----------



## alessandra

Many thanks DaisyG, you are very supportive, even in a difficult time like this. Big hugs!


----------



## SUESUE

Hello Goldies,

I haven't posted for a while but have been reading the posts.


I have some fantastic news OMG I'm pregnant. I still can't believe it neither can dh . After all the misscarriages, clomid, IUI and IVF's I have fallen naturally.   

It just goes to show try and keep positive and you never know,
nature is a funny thing, I was about to undergo a donor cycle.

Good luck to you all with your tx.

LOL

SueSue xxxxxx


----------



## Mummyof2

Sue - that is fantastic news.  Huge congratulations to you.  I too fell pregnant naturally back in September but sadly miscarried   but I see you are well past that danger zone now so HUGE congratulations to you  

All the best to all the goldies

Jenny


----------



## albali

First of all, good luck Flopsy. You are a stoic determined optimist. Your dh should feel himself so lucky to have you. Just goes to show that youcant let these doctors have all their own way. Please please that it works out. I know how you feel about not daring to write anything but this is the only place you can, so thanks. Daisy, for what its worth I think you are right about DE. I had my trip planned because I was entirely convinced this wouldnt stick ( in fact I still am, every day, and so DE is still an option for me) and tiem waits for noone, does it. Jen, I hate roel playing as well- I dont know anyone who does apart from actors and they chosose to do it for money. For the rest of us its ridiculous I think. Do they think we havent got the imagination to put ourselves in this position without "acting" it. I ask you. Anyway, if it gets you where you want to be , then it'll be worth the hassle.  I'll post this beforeit goes love albali


----------



## AlmaMay

Hi Goldies,

I was wondering if I could join?  I'm less than 3 months away from my 40th and DH is 45. 

We've been ttc for 10 years. My tx history so far is investigations started in Jan 03 at UCL Elizabeth Garett Anderson, had a few tests before I had to go to New York and look after my dying mother. She died in April 2003. We had more tests and were diagnosed as 'Unexplained'. Started IUI on clomid in Aug/Sept 03 and had three unsuccessful treatments. In Jan 04 started menopur and got a bumper crop of follies (9) and had to abandon cycle. In March 03 halved the dose of menopur and produced 3 follies for IUI. Got pg but mc the end of April at 7 weeks. Had a review with Dr after that and had 3 more IUI's with menopur, I produced 3 follies each time but none successful. Was signed off by hospital in Jan 05 and told to go private. 

I tried to go private in London but quite honestly didn't have a good feeling about any of the places we looked at, all very depressing, all wanting to do more and more tests for more and more money. Surfed around the internet and web boards thinking about clinics in Europe. Saw the good things going on at Institut Marques in Barcelona. When I talked to DH about clinics he perked up when I mentioned Barcelona and that was a big influence on going. He works in the music industry and does work there and we have always had a great time so we thought we'd book an appt to go see the place. 

Met with the Dr in Barcelona at the end of Jan and they took us through everything. We've been going on gut instinct and felt good about the place and decided to give it a try. Touch wood, my physical health has been good through out investigations and tx. My last FSH test last year was 5.2. For my first IVF I produced an unbelievable 24 eggs for collection. 11 fertilized and 7 made it to day 3. I had 3 (2x grade 10 out of 10 and 1x grade 8 ) put back but it unfourtunatly failed last week.  I have 4 grade 9 frosties waiting for me in sunny Spain. 

I'm also trying to fight for my entitlement of two fresh IVF treatments funded by the NHS.  I was misinformed by my Dr that I wasn't entitled to any.  I am until my 40th but can't get a tx in before then at Hammersmith.  

x,
AlmaMay


----------



## mizz-gizz

Hi Ladies - can I also join you? Am 43 and have had 3 failed IUI's and 1 failed IVF (just last week). I have been on the IUI thread and the IUI ladies turned IVF thread - along with my chums AlmaMay & Alessandra (who has recommended thread to me - thanks Aless)!

We have been told we now need 2 clear months before we can go for IVF again. Unfortunately they only got one egg from me - so no chance of FET. I have to go through the whole d*mn process again. 

I was put on the long IVF protocol, but have been told by a couple of people this shouldn't have happened, and reading back on this thread I see I am not alone. I wonder if the burserelin jabs also stopped my eggs growing, as they grew much better when I was having IUI. I plan to discuss this when we go back to the clinic around end May.

I have toyed with the idea of Donor Eggs, and the possibility of adoption - though dh isn't keen - something to think about for later maybe.

Good luck to everyone, what ever stage you are presently at.

Mizz Gizz. x


----------



## albali

Welcome almamay and mizzgizz - youre in the right place here. love and luck to you


----------



## albali

Hello Plink. Just got your email. Yes, I was told by my first consultant that the chances were "negligible". I fell pg naturally at 45 and then had m/c. The went ahead with ivf and luckily it is ok- for thetime being. You can see I'm very pessimistic. My monitoring was just  during the stims- every other day and bloods for oestrogen levels and scan of course to see the size of the follicles. I only had 6. As for the FSH i think that was a misleading level. Before I took the clomid it was low 4-5; then an aberrant 16 at day 2 of the  menstrual cycle after i had taken it for 3 months and stopped. i know each cycle  starts "afresh" but I think that is too close and too much of a coincidence. What is GIFT by the way? I know the chances of m\c are high at this age, but I just keep thinking if its works, it will work and I cant do anything about it either way. Of course at the first interview (the one where we were brushed off as no hopers) they virtually pushed the idea of DE instead, but I insisted and virtually begged to try an ivf cycle. Let me know how you get on. love and luck.


----------



## Flopsy

Hi Goldies,

Nice to see so many postings and activity with the Goldies.

Welcome to AlmaMay and Mizz-Gizz!

Sue - wow what amazing news. Imagine falling pregnant after all those failed attempts.  Big congratulatiosn to you! Wishing you a happy and healthy 9 months.

Albali - glad to hear you survived your weekend away and things are going well with your pregnancy. I am thinking of you every day and hoping this pregnancy is the ONE for you.

Daisy - I really sympathise on how you feel about the docs and not being given the right tests. Let us know how you get on with Dr ******* as it does seem weird that he has an interest in blood clotting disorders but didn't even test you for it.

We Goldies simply do not have the time (and other resources) to go to doctor after doctor (and survive IVF failure after failure) frantically searching for the right fix for our problem.  I'm really angry at the time wasted by my earlier clinics who couldn't even get my progesterone support right!

Woops - just noticed and time and need to dash out. More later!

Lots of love to Jenny, Megan, Alessandra, Jac, Liz, and all the Goldies from,


----------



## mizz-gizz

Does anyone know anything about IVIG (Intravenous immunoglobulin (IVIG) therapy)? Though I have pasted the same question on ask a nurse - I know it involves a blood transfusion but am not sure what the benefits are.

Thanks,
Mizz. x


----------



## Flopsy

Hi Mizz-Gizz,

I've had 4 IVIG's (2 from the ARGC and two from [email protected]). It is a pooled preparation of immunglobulin made from human blood.

This is an experimental treatment used by some clinics in the UK to help women with IVF implantation failure and miscarriage.

The theory is that the IVIG helps battle parts of the immune system which could attack the embryo and cause problems. The clinics offering this treatment do a blood test that shows if you are high in NK cells. Most clinics use the Chicago tests but some (i.e. the Lister) have their own version. There are other tests available for other immunological problems.

Here is a link to a USA based doctor who has been a pioneer in these treatments. He visits the ARGC in London for a week each month. It's a big and complicated problem! Let me know if you have any specific questions.

http://www.repro-med.net/

With warmest regards,


----------



## Mummyof2

Flopsy - thinking of you.  Not long to go now until your test date.  Hoping for  

All the best to everyone

J


----------



## mizz-gizz

Flopsy - thanks so much for that information - A friend of mine was having tests done in the Sher Institute in Chicago also. I will check out the doc you mention on the that web site. I really beleive that implantation is where my troubles lie, and plan to discuss with our consultant when we wer ready for one more IVF, around June time. Good luck in your 2ww! 

Luv,
Mizz Gizz. x


----------



## DebbieB

hiya
thought I'd come back on the site.  Had to have some time off trying and thought I would stop tx, but it seems I'm not happy with that decision and feel really sad about it, so have asked doc if he'll try again.  I'll be 43 in 2 weeks time - anyone know what the stats are on success at my age?  Last treatment I didn't produce many follies.

Debbie


----------



## mizz-gizz

Hi Debbie - I am 43 and just had IVF in the last few weeks - which sadly failed. Our consultant told us there was only a 10% chance of success.

They collected about 5 follies, but only 2 had eggs in them and only 1 fertilised. However, the one they got was a very good one (and let's face it, we only need the one!) it divided into 4 overnight and had kept going! 

Although we were upset we have not been put off. We hope to go again around June time. Good luck with trying again - never say never - okay?!

Mizz Gizz. xx


----------



## Plink

Hello all

Albali - thanks for your reply. Great you insisted to do own eggs treatment -I'm like you, not assuming it would work but being realistic is the only way I can be - that doesn't mean I'm negative -or I wouldnt bother,would I!
I'm best foot forward and hoping to achieve something too.
I was told very low chance (the 'n' word wasn't used -negligible! but the previous clinic LFC tried to push donor egg on my first consultation)

I'm unexplained and my immune tests reveal some raised levels. I have a telephone consultation this afternoon to discuss it with ARGC.

Very best of luck to you, hope this one sticks and like you say, you  cant do more.
We all want to give it our best shot. I was told r=that I had given it already(by LFC) but I'm not convinced I have and I'm not giving up yet.

Love Plink


----------



## Plink

Hello

ps Daisy -if youre there - on the subject of IUI. At ARGC they said I wd have same chance whichever method I used! ie IUI/IVF etc.
I have some raised levels on my immune tests to discuss with them today, too.
Mr T was happy that my hysterosalpingogram was normal so tubes are clear.

My last clinic did a GIFT and afterwards said it was difficult accessing one of my tubes because of some adhesions (minor). I explained this to the new clinic but they stil;l said that the salpingogram is good enough evidence to state that the tubes are clear -no matter what is seen at operation.

So, cost wise is IUI much cheaper. I'm thinking of doing one and then an IVF but I'm mid-fortioes now.

Plink x


----------



## DebbieB

Hi Mizz Gizz

thanks so much for your reply and encouragement!  good luck with your next try!  I will see the consultant soon and hope to start tx. He says it will have to be long protocol this time as short wasn't effective.  I don't get many follies.  anyway, will keep up hope.

Debbie


----------



## Flopsy

Hi Goldies,

Hope everyone is enjoying the sunshine.

I've had some bad news from the clinic to say that our lastest FET has failed. Very sad indeed but not unexpected as I did a HPT today and yesterday.

It's our last 2 frosties and as I am 44 it may be time to give up now. I'm still at the grief-stricken stage so will take time to think things over.

I know that I could try for donor eggs but we are in debt now and it's a question of finding all the other resources as well to continue.

It was our Anniversary last night and amidst all the tears we realised that all of our birthday, anniversaries etc had been around failed cycles or horrible operations for the past years and years. We have made so many sacrifices to come this far.

For us it has been the right thing to do as it can't be said that we didn't try!

There are just so many variables here that could be going wrong - limited sperm from a post-cancer biopsy, my age, a neurological disease I have and immune issues.

I've asked the nurse at the clinic to talk to Mr Taranissi to let us know his views.

Will post more when I can think straight.

Albali - thinking of you and hoping all OK!

With love from,


----------



## Ellie.st

Dear Flopsy

So sorry to hear your news.  Can't think of anything else to say to you and DH apart from "take care of yourselves", and thanks for all the support you give other people on this site.


----------



## KK

Flopsy
I don't belong to this thread - but I have been reading it intently - as I'm going through IVF and I'm 41.  I have always looked at your replies and posts and you always have been so informative and a clear pillar of strength to everyone else.  Anyway, I just wanted to say that I'm sorry to hear your news and my heart goes out to you both.
Love
KK


----------



## mizz-gizz

Dear Flopsy - my heart goes out to you and dh - try to be strong please look after yourselves. You have given me good advice too in the past, so thank you so much for that.

I am 43 (44 in June) and we have just had a failed IVF. We have discussed 'stopping' too, but it's hard isn't it? My mind changes so much with each week. I think we will have one more go at IVF in the summer - then 'really' stop for good.

Big hugs to you.

Mizz gizz. x


----------



## daisyg

Dear Flopsy,

I'm really very sorry to hear this news.  This process is incredibly stressful and it is devastating when it doesn't work.

You have really pushed the envelope to do all you possibly can.  I really think you couldn't have done more.  Small consolation now I know, but hopefully there is nothing to reproach yourselves for as you move forward into the future.

I hope you have a productive de-brief with Mr. T.  I wish you and your DH the very best and thank you for all the support you have given despite going through all this yourself.

Thanks and take very good care Flopsy,

Daisy
xxx


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## ayla

Dear dear Flopsy,
Was sooo hoping for a positive for you. 
What else can i say?
love
ayla


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## sjm

Hi there, just found this thread and keen to join.

I am about to start on my second ICSI treatment at the Nuffield Glasgow.  Previously posted on the 2WW thread for November/December.

  To me, my first treatment went well in that I had no side effects with the drugs, only one ovary responded but in the end there were 5 eggs and 2 good quality embryos implanted but unfortunately no success.  It is the closest I have ever felt to being pregnant as I thought I would just have poor quality eggs and never even get to the end of the treatment (I really thought my age was well against me). 

We have been TTC for 3 years but I had problems conceiving in my previous marriage - unexplained.  My husband has poor sperm mobility but to be honest this is making this journey much more of a partnership and I feel so much more supported this time.  Last time my husband started an affair just at the time I was going through all the investigations and left within 3 months of me being told they couldn't find any reasons for not conceiving.  Devastating at the time and a long time for me to recover but I have never been happier than I am now.  Having a child would just be the icing on the cake.

For this tx I would like to stay on this thread hopefully you will all understand my fears moving through this cycle and help me feel normal for feeling like this.  Today I had an FSH test, it is 10.2 (6.4 1st cycle).  I have spent the last hour checking the web to see if this is because of my age and the effect it will have on success.  I think it is a bit high but still under the acceptable threshold.  Next appointment is the 4th April for the nasal spray.

Will keep you posted.

SJM


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## albali

My dear dear Flopsy. I have logged on to see how you were, thinking of  you every day, but I couldnt bring myself to type  over the last couple of days after i read your news because I was so sad for you. The word grieving doesnt come anywhere near how it feels. What i have always thought of when I surfaced from such tears is that I have my dp. That has been my only consolation in these times. Cherish one another. take care and keep in touch. love and luck as ever. albali


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## Mummyof2

Flopsy - very very sorry it was negative    Really was hoping for good news.  Huge hugs to you and dh.

Jenny x


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## Lois

Hi Girls

Haven't been around much of late - so no time to catch up just now.

But Flopsy - just wanted to say that I'm very sorry that I missed you going through your last FET & that it hasn't worked out...........that is so hard to take & I am so very sorry. 

Haven't been around because my energy is so low regarding IF at the moment.........just run out of steam.

Hi to everyone - especially Jenny, Sasjane,Daisy, Laine.....wish I hadn't started this now because I will miss everyone I love out.

Love & thinking of you all

Loisxxxxxxx


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## SUESUE

Flopsy,

Sorry to hear of your -ve sending you a big . I hope you can get some answers when you see Mr T.
Thankyou for being a tower of strength on this thread.

Sue


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## saphy75

new home this way girls

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,25654.0.html

pam xx


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