# eSET and singledom



## wizard (Nov 6, 2008)

I know there is a seperate eSET board but my question is aimed at single women.  I'd like to know if you have done IVF or are about to, whether you went for single or double embryo transfer, what were your considerations and what were the results?  I'm 38 and possibly should do double.... but the thought of being a single parent and having twins, well I daren't even go there    Your thoughts and experiences most welcome.


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## indekiwi (Dec 23, 2008)

Hi Wizard,

Providing that there are sufficient embryos (after my last attempt I know there are no guarantees despite best efforts  ), I will be putting two back in early March.  Not that I have a hankering for twins  , but frankly, I want to up my chances of having one that sticks at all and I don't have a lot of years left to keep trying.  I am bored with infertility treatment, it is extremely costly, BFNs are absolutely no fun at all, and I want to maximise my chances of bringing treatment to an end and enjoying a very healthy and happy pregnancy and birth of a healthy bub in due course.  I would have three embryos put in if I was using my own eggs (permitted for over 40s), but this is not permitted when using donor eggs.  I will let you know the results when it happens!  If by some amazing feat I fall pregnant with twins, I will count my blessings and be thankful (and no doubt swear a lot and panic a bit!)  For me, it's a case of fear of not having another child outweighing fear of falling pregnant with twins (and believe me, I have HUGE respect for those bringing up twins, particularly in the early years where it can be very tough with a singleton let alone two).  

I'm sure someone will be along soon with a very different take on the subject!

A-Mx


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## OneStepAtATime (Sep 14, 2008)

Hi Wizard
I spoke to the embryologist at length about this. I was fortunate to have enough fertilised eggs to go for a 5 day blast (they want at least 8 embryos at the clinic I went to to consider going to blast). She was advocating having 2 blasts put back. She said that means there is a 50% chance of it working, but if it does work there's a 40% chance of twins.

It's worth noting that it is more likely that blasts split, so there's a risk of identical twins (3.6% chance, 6 times higher than the "normal" rate). Last year, there were 2 women at my clinic who had 3 heartbeats after 2-blast transfers (out of 164 successful women). The stats don't show yet how many livebirths there were though.

Having read all the stuff about SET, I thought she was being a little gung-ho, but it's really the under 35s at whom the SET policy is aimed, and she said that she has not yet had anyone at our age (I'll be 38 in a month) who has wanted to only have one put back. The chances of having any to freeze and, if successful, having the frozen ones thaw successfully (blasts are more complex so don't freeze as well), were not good. It's much better to have fresh ones.

The difference in chances for success between one and two blasts was (if I remember correctly) about 15%, which is a major difference.

As I would like more than one child ultimately anyway (in an ideal world), I'm perhaps more open to twins than you. But I am very aware of the issues involved in having twins, such as cerebral palsy... but there are no guarantees that even a singleton would be healthy... All the juggling with numbers feels impossible.

Ask your clinic too - I found they were very good people to discuss it with.

I'm currently waiting for the 6 week scan on Thursday - where I'll find out whether there is a heartbeat and perhaps whether there's more than one... but I'm very aware that even if they detect 2, there are quite a few examples on these message boards of the second heartbeat disappearing later in the first trimester.

At least I feel I've given it my best shot, and maximised the chances of having a child.

That's my current thinking. We'll see what the news is on Thursday! 
OneStep

PS By the way, the counsellor at my clinic had just that day (when I contacted her specifically on this question) been on an SET course, and was very knowledgeable but also extremely pro-SET- but I felt she perhaps hadn't got the stats that the embryologist had and didn't fully appreciate the difference between a lot of IVF clients (late twenties) and a 38 year old. Perhaps that's being a bit harsh. But the contrast between her conservative attitude and the embryologist was striking.

PPS If you really didn't want twins, then a single blast would be a good option. The rates are higher than for day 3 IVF. However, you do need a good enough number of eggs.


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## Damelottie (Jul 26, 2005)

Hello there

For me the thought of having twins was more horrific that taking longer to conceive, so I went for SET. Amazingly the egg actually DID divide into a 'normal' twin pregnancy but I miscarried one at 6 weeks.
As you all know - I don't believe in any of the stats to do with IVF etc so I have no idea what the odds were with 2 embryos as opposed to one. It made no difference to me - I was more likely to get pg with one that none  . With my first FET I had two transferred and I was incredibly anxious throughout the 2ww. I was much clamer when I just had the one tranferred back.

Good luck with your decision

LL xxxx


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## Maya7 (Sep 9, 2008)

Wizard

I wanted to maximise my chances and so had two transferred.  

I would have been happy with twins.  so much so that when I saw that there were three possible embryos to transfer, I wanted three but they refused to do this (my first IVF) and I had to agree that first time around this was possibly wise.  Now I wonder what would have been the outcome... I was so big so quickly that I did wonder if there were twins but two scans have confirmed singleton...  I have scan tomorrow and if I'm honest, I would be delighted if the previous two scans were wrong and there was another one hiding all along!  

Maya


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## Betty-Boo (Oct 14, 2007)

Wizard - as someone who's just about to embark on the DEIVF route I have been mulling this over too.  TBH I wouldn't mind twins, as for coping - that's another question.  If I had one I would look to trying again for a sibling.
Good luck
Mini x


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## wizard (Nov 6, 2008)

Thank you so much indekiwi, OneStep, LadyLottie, Maya and mini.  Your experiences and thoughts are all different but it is just so useful to hear about them.  I always thought I wanted more than one child too, but not so sure at the same time.... It's just so physically, and emotionally demanding with 2 tiny babies.  I worry about doing it solo with 1, never mind 2! I'm also self-employed so won't get maternity pay and will need to work part-time quite quickly after any baby is born... and the childcare costs for 2 - ouch!  But having said that people do it and cope and manage things don't they?  You just do what you have to do.  I know the embryo situation will have a major bearing but I just want to think things through a bit beforehand and your stories are really helping me do that.


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

I have always had 2 put back, but if you get blasts your chances are much higher of pregnancy.  Also are older women more likely to get multiples (not sure where I read that) but agree with Coco. Also I havenlining problems so I said that i wanted 3 back, but both UK and Spanish Drs said no as the risk if they both implanted would be loosing both.

I manage a NICU and see on a daily basis the effects of prematurity, IVF twins and triplets, and the downside of neonatal deaths - once we had 4 sets of twins in one nurser all IVF!


L x


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## Elpida (Feb 11, 2008)

I'm pretty sure that I will have SET, the clinic have told me to wait to discuss it with the embryologist if/when I get to that stage, but as a 34 year old on my 1st IVF I think it's best that I go for SET if possible. I do panic about the prospect of twins - mainly because I'd probably have to move!

Also, you're at a higher risk of having twins because of the embryo splitting, which it seems to do more often with IVF - have a read of the triplet thread!


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## muddypaws (Apr 10, 2008)

In reality, the chances of twins are small once you get older. Twins would be hard initially but so is a baby and a toddler...in fact I wonder if that isn't worse? You will cope with what you get whatever the outcome...you just have to! I've always had two put back. The last time because I was 40 I had three blasts put back. Probably the clinic agreed because they didn't think it would work anyway given three previous failed embryo transfers, one with two fresh blasts. So, even though frozen, it did work and yes there were two....but as for many, one arrested. I want more than one child and frankly twins would have ensured that...given my age maybe I'm more open to it but it wasn't to be. SET is likely to lead to more disappointment, more money in my view but then that's easy to say given I had a fair bit of experience of it not working at all. First time round maybe SET is a good idea to get a sense of your fertility. If under 35 I guess I'd definitely say SET is better if you really don't want twins. There aren't that many of us over 38 who get a result first time round with IVF...Maya being an exception I think. Good luck with decision!

Muddy


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

I do sometimes worry that my triplets dream was a premonition  

Whilst the idea of twins post about age 3 when they get good at playing together really appeals, I am scared about twins as babies and how exhausting that would be...but I'm sure we'd all just cope if we had to. It is instant family!   

Good to raise the question....and oh my, just imagine if you put two back and they both doubled and then there were quads..ok going to stop now....
xx


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## Felix42 (Oct 14, 2007)

Wizard, this is an interesting question.  I'm definitely of the wouldn't it be lovely and terrifying if it was twins school of thought.  I would definitely want more than one and given donor egg treatment twins from one treatment would ensure that they were full siblings.  Of course the other possibility would be frozen embryos from one treatment but that's probably almost as unlikely.

I do see worry how hard it will be but as Muddy mentioned having a toddler and a baby would be hard too and I don't want to leave a sibling too long.  If I was younger I think I would still want two put back as it is so expensive and so heart breaking to keep on going through this.

Good luck with making up your mind.  I suspect your heart will rule your head when it gets to be that time you need to choose. 

Love and hugs, Felix xx


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

coco - NICU is neonatal intensive care unit , so very sick ventilated preterm babies (usually although not today we hve had some full term babies!!)
SCBU is special care baby unit- usually these are able to breathe unaided .

There are risks to the mother as well as the baby , we have situations where the mother can end up int intensive care (we have one at the moment), high blood pressure, pre eclampsia, prem labour, or like the mother of the octuplets - ruptured of the uterus, or not being able to 'feed' an sustain 2 baby's
http://www.womenshealthchannel.com/multiplepregnancies/risks_maternal.shtml
I have also seen twins but in fact they were frosties 5 years apart!
L x

/links


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## aweeze (Nov 8, 2005)

This is a subject that I have obsessed over! I was delighted but scared to discover that I was expecting twins last tx. One didn't make it through the first tri though - thankfully Ellis did. I don't think until you have a baby, you can fully appreciate how much your life changes. I certainly didn't! It didn't matter how many people told me things, or how many books I read or tv docs I watched, the reality was far from what I expected. I think I cope well with Ellis and have no doubt that I would have coped with twins too but (and this is more poignant based on my recent problems), I do rely quite a bit on my support network and when that falls down, I really notice ! 

On my first IVF, I was all set to have a single embryo replaced as I was so sure I didn't want to risk twins. The embies decided it for me though as I had 2 at day 3, nothing to choose between them and couldn't really freeze the one and risk it not surviving a subsequent thaw. After that, there was never any question. Out of 3 IVF's with 2 good quality day 3 embies replaced, I conceived twins once and even then, I lost one. 

My dilemma now is what to do if/when I try for a sibling! I only have sperm from the same donor as Ellis saved for one attempt. Based on my history I should go for 2 embies back but Elis + twins would be a lot to cope with. My main concerns would be finances, health but also, it would be harder to be able to still enjoy Ellis if I was also juggling newborn twins which wouldn't really be fair on him. I think my only option will be to hope that I can go to blasts and have eSET with fingers crossed for some frosties just in case.

It is a dilemma isn't it!

Lou
X


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## Betty-Boo (Oct 14, 2007)

Have been mulling this over in my head and after seeing my cousin yesterday with her gorgeous twins and what a struggle it was for her (her   of a boyfriend left her so she's now single) am seriously considering eSET.  I'm not saying that I'd welcome twins but it does scare me slightly.
Poor cousin left our family BBQ in tears cos one of the twins wouldn't settle and was all over the place,  she was so upset as hasn't been to family gathering in ages. 
Mmmmm still a bit of time to think this one over as next go is 2010.


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## kylecat (Oct 18, 2007)

Your poor cousin Mini - what an awful situation to be in.  

My sister has non identical twins (as a result of IVF treatment). However she was in her late twenties when she had the treatment and the chances of both embryos implanting at that age is a LOT higher. She is also married with the support of her husband. I know that twins are very hard work although now they are older they can amuse each other which is good (and argue which is not so good!).  

I had two embyros put back and obviously only one implanted and I have to admit I was relieved, however I would have coped with twins as I am lucky enough to have a very supportive family who live close to me. However If I was a single woman on my own with hardly any family around who I caould rely on, I would have seriously thought the situation through a bit more. 

Love
Kylecat xxx


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## Betty-Boo (Oct 14, 2007)

Thank you kylekat - I think it does worry me as my family will all be in Plymouth and I'll be in Scotland without the family support.... Cousin conceived naturally and is 44 - bless her - she's doing so well but you can see how hard it is for her.
Big hugs x x


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## bingbong (Dec 9, 2008)

Mini it is certainly something to think very carefully about, even with only one baby and having family support. Your poor cousin, but it does sound like a bad day, I wonder how she normally feels about having twins? Maybe you could talk to her sometime about it, when she is feeling slightly less stressed. I also wonder if the fact that she didn't plan to be a single mother has an impact on how she feels? Quite amazing to have natural twins at 44.

And as you say you have time to think about things before your next tx


Bingbong x


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## going it alone (Feb 11, 2006)

I had IUI so didn't have the option of selecting eset. I think it depends a lot on the support you have around you. I consider myself very lucky to have twins and I honestly don't think that it's the harder route. I always wanted more than one child and the thought of having a toddler and then going through tx again to me isn't an easier route. After a cetain age twins definitely calm each other and can help each other. I see heavily pregnant friends of mine who have small children and are run ragged. I thoroughly understand people's concerns but when eople often say that twins must be hard work, I honestly, hand on heart, don't believe that they are any harder than having them one at a time. 
Love to all 
Sam x


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## Betty-Boo (Oct 14, 2007)

Sam - thank you - its great to hear the positive side of things - I think that my cousins boys are sensitive babies as their father was a bit of a   - I think that seeing it up close and personal sort of shock me a bit - I have always been open minded to the thought of twins.  Then again mum said that at their home its different as cousin is so organised.  
Thanks everyone for their words of wisdom.  
Big big hugs mini x


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## ♥Jovial♥ (Feb 25, 2007)

Mini I get in a right panic about multiple pg sometimes ..... not an easy decision.  I won't have the choice as IUI'ing, think they said max 10% chance of twins (  that sounds quite high now I've written it down  ).... but I can't think about it too much.  Keep telling myself what will be will be!

You're poor cousin to be let down like that, bloody men!  

I must admit after meeting Sam in Birmingham I did worry less about having 2 - her little ladies are wonderful and Sam makes it look so easy!


Jovi x


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## going it alone (Feb 11, 2006)

Thanks Jovi - only on a good day, especially where there's food - they're like their mum and love to fill their faces! x


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