# I've totally messed things up :-(



## Angel39 (Jul 14, 2011)

Just finished 2ww today and had BFN - I totally expected it as I got my period today.  I have low AMH (4.57) and it was a miracle that I produced any eggs - I got a total of 4 and 2 fertilised.  The embryologist (excuse spelling but I'm frantically trying to type this!) was very impressed with the quality of them and said they were "absolutely stunning" and the nurses got to hear about them too and on day of ET I felt very blessed that we had such 2 amazing miracles. Well, I thought all was going well until today when as I said, I got my period.  My pregnancy test was negative and that was that.  I couldn't really understand why my top quality embryos had not implanted and the quality of my womb was very good too. Then I started to remember back to 3 or 4 days after ET and i woke up from a snooze after having orgasm-ed in my sleep!!!! Yes the Big O !! Apparently this is a "side effect" of taking the cyclogest suppositories! but after having googled all of this I am totally beside myself as it appears I probably suffered from uterine contractions afterwards and probably flushed my embryos out of my system before implantation. I feel so awful...after having conquered my low amh and produced 2 good embryos i now feel like i have p*ssed (excuse my French!) everything up against the wall. 
AAAARGHHH!!!!!! I feel so wretched!!!!!! :-(


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## PiePig (May 16, 2007)

I don't believe an orgasm would have caused any problems at all. Don't beat yourself up.


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## BerryChelt74 (Jan 28, 2011)

Hiya,

I think that you are beating yourself up for nothing, I am sure that lots of ladies have had the big O and still got pregnant. Besides its not like you did it on purpose. I am really sorry that you got a neg though.

I had perfect eggs too (from a donor) and even with the eggs of a 21yr old it didnt work so you cant keep worrying about it.

These things happen, I bet you will get lots of replies from ladies who have had an O and still got pregnant.

Please don't beat yourself up, you need to be kind to yourself at the moment.

Take care,

Laura


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## BerryChelt74 (Jan 28, 2011)

I am sure that there was some research done that found it can help rather than hinder but I cant find the research at the moment. x


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## Angel39 (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks so much ladies for taking the time to reply.....it's so annoying when you end up analysing everything...i bet if i wasn't analysing the effects of the Big O I would be stressing about something else!!
I guess i feel a bit panicky now as my egg reserve is so low (and I'm 40 next month ...GRRR!!) and I just feel that time is running out and i've missed my "window of opportunity" . 

Just got to save up now for the next round plus DH now has to have another operation to aspirate his sperm (he has a vasectomy) as they didn;t get enough out of him the last time as he was in such pain (bless him)!!  

I was on the antagonist protocol (didn;t down reg) and the whole process has only taken 4 weeks but it seems like months!!!


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## Pinot (Nov 5, 2008)

*Angel* - don't beat yourself up. There is absolutely no research to show the O lessens chances. Take a look at this link http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=9452.0;viewresults. 36% of women got a BFP after the big O!

A BFN is pants (been there and have whole wardrobe of T-shirts  ) but you can rest assured it isn't down to anything you've done. Just rotten, rotten luck.

Take care,
Pinotxx


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## Angel39 (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks for your reply Pinot - I really appreciate it.  I rang up the nurse this morning too and she said it was highly unlikely that the big O caused me to contract and lose them and I should stop punishing myself!! I just wished that i had a "clean slate" so to speak, with nothing to beat myself up about then i could probably accept it (but then there would probably be something else i would blame it on!!!ha ha) I guess things happen for a reason but it's hard to get your head around when you do have good quality embies and they don't implant...I guess i'm so cut up too as i have very low AMH and was only given less than 1% of actually getting any eggs - so when i got 4 i felt i had won the lottery!!!  Oh well, back to the drawing board.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply - it means the world to me ...xxx


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## Pinot (Nov 5, 2008)

Angel - don't despair. I've never had my AMH tested (my clinic don't believe in it!!) but my FSH was 14.3 and I have an 18mnth old DD and have just had a BFP - although I'm bleeding so very cautious to say a BFP at the moment. You never know and as you produced nice quality embryos, you stand as much chance as anyone else. Hang in there.

Love Pinot xx


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## Angel39 (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks Pinot x 
Congrats on your BFP - that's wonderful news...good luck, i'm sure all will be ok xx
I'll hang in there and hopefully get some good quality eggs and embies the next time  

xx


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## Angel39 (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks for taking the time to reply Braxma14 but I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you.  

We attended a very reputable clinic and I find it incredulous that you would think that the embryologist would lie about the quality of our embryos (why would she??!!) or even looked at the wrong ones??!! We saw them ourselves on the screen so there's absolutely no dispute as to their quality or the fact that the right ones were put in!!

I may be 40 but i'm fit and healthy and look after myself really well -  so even though I don't produce loads of eggs then why shouldn't the quality of both of the embryos be very good?? Just because you produce a greater number of eggs doesn't mean that the quality will be better!!! She did make a point of saying that when she's seen only 2 fertilise, one is usually better than the other. But, in our case, both were very very good and i don't dispute that - as I said, we saw them for ourselves. 

Oh and another thing...she said they were "textbook"....sorry!


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## Bangle21 (Dec 17, 2004)

Hi angel .....

Just wanted to say sorry for your loss and to offer 'support' (isnt that what this site is fundamentally about..?)

Im sure alot of the girls here understand your pain and frustration...

So much time, effort, hope, money but most of all hope goes into the hell that is the ivf journey and who can blame you for needing to find answers...  Its only natural you want to beat yourself up about stuff in the 2ww who doesnt?  The truth is, this is a lottery and sadly not an exact science and we will never know the cause for our BFNs.....

I am disappointed that braxma lacks the empathy to respond sensitively to your grief and frustration and i cant speak for everyone but im sure most of us dont feel it is either comforting nor productive for someone to imply your clinic is 'dishonest' and that your embryos must have been poor quality.... Im sorry but i find this extremely ignorant , totally unneccessary and completely dissillusional as (i assume) braxma is no embryologist expert and so her comments could be actually quite damaging to you at such a vulnerable time!!!

Moving on, i hope you dont give up and continue to indeed produce "textbook"  embryos.

Well done and i wish you the very best of luck in this cruel, impossible journey....

Xxx


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## Angel39 (Jul 14, 2011)

Thank you so much Bangle21 for your heartfelt and genuine response...i really appreciate it. 

Yes it is a hard journey and as you say you can't help beat yourself up about things that you did or didn't do.  I feel more at peace now, if that makes sense and have accepted the outcome and am ready to move on and try again later.

I totally agree with your comments re Braxma - how someone can be so rude and insensitive on this site baffles me!! 

Onwards and upwards as they say and bring on the "textbook" embryos!!    

xx


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## MissTC (May 8, 2006)

Hey Angel


Firstly, sorry for your BFN sweety    I know the pain   


Secondly, how fab that you got good quality embies from your eggs!  I am 40yrs old myself, but went through early menopause in my 20's and had to use DE, so I think it's wonderful a 40 yr old can get good quality embryos!


Thirdly, about your orgasm honey, this won't be the reason for the BFN    I have been in the exact same situation as you on 3 of my cycles (O in sleep), 1 of them was BFN, 2 were BFP (one resulted in MC) - there is really no connection.  Some people have a theory that the uterus contracting can HELP the embryos implant, others say it contracts them out.  Personally I think it's all down to luck and mother nature honey.  It's so hard I know and we look for reasons and for things to blame it on, but the sad fact is that sadly this wasn't your time    Believe me, with all the tx I have been through I know just how hard this is to accept.  You just have to keep the faith that it will work for you!!  Don't ever lose hope        




I haven't seen any past posts from Braxma, but I am presuming she didn't really mean to offend you  honey as this site is for support, advice, guidance and friendship


I really hope you get your dream.  I never thought I would, but it did happen eventually, so never give up!!


Love and hugs


Tracy
xxx


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## Betty-Boo (Oct 14, 2007)

Angel     so sorry to hear of your BFN.  Think we all look to blame something when we get a BFN ... for me last time it was the train from stansted being cancelled to the emergency coach and being jolted around, then the power walk to Paddington Station... Mad really - after all its not down to any of those things.  


I wish there were guarantees with IVF and treatment - I wish my fairy wand did work.  All we can do is continue to support each other along this journey and listen.  


As for the big 'O' - believe you me that would not have had any affect on the outcome.  Some even say it helps! But stay away from Dr Google ... his contradicting info will send you   Have to say I do feel extremely 'fruity' on my cycles ... Blimming cyclogest ... 

   you produced 2 wonderful embies - and can do it again - nearly 40 is no age.  My friend had 2 wee embies at 42, one of which is her 3year old!  Another friend after some trying fell pregnant au naturel at 42.  Her son is perfect in every way.  It can and does happen.

Take care, take time and be very kind to you.

Mini x


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## Angel39 (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks MissTC and Mini Minx for your positive responses.

MissTC - sorry you went through early menopause but great that's it's all worked out for you - i was totally amazed to get any eggs from EC as my AMH level is so low and to get good quality ones too was a miracle due to my age and being on high stimms (450 Gonal F)...my DH is 48 and his sperm were little fighters too...he had sperm aspiration due to his vasectomy a couple of months ago but they could only get a small sample out as he was in too much pain! But because they knew i wouldn't produce many eggs (if any!) then they went ahead and froze the sample. On EC day it seemed all was over as when they defrosted the sperm it didn;t look like it was moving :-(  The next day the embryologist phoned to say 2 had fertislised and on day 3 they were very good quality. I guess that's why I'm so beat up as we defied the odds (I was given less than 1% chance of producing any eggs) and becasue we made it to EC with good embroyos you expect it to work...then when it doesn't, it's like you've been knocked over by a bus!! But thank you for your kind words and support and i'm sure it will happen for me soon. xx

MiniMinx - thanks to you too for your lovely message. I know what you mean about ..."the train...the coach and being jolted around...." i was racking my brains as to what else i could have done and even thought I had blown it cos i wandered around a supermarket carrying a basket (which only had in a couple of light items..!!!) ha ha !!! mad eh!! xx


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

I have blamed...

Ranting at the man who took my money but failed to deliver my contact lenses.
Coughing and spluttering becuase I caught a cold.
The sip of champagne I had at a wedding.
Travelling home on the tube.

...for my BFNs in the past. 

I think I had orgasms on all my 2ww (like Mini Minx says, all that messing about with hormones did make be a bit randy!  ). You may have seen this thread already: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=9452.0 Some interesting comments and results on there. Suffice to say it doesn't seem to make a whole lot of difference either way.

It's totally normal for you to want to find a reason why it might not have happened.  Sometimes, in this thing, it's just a case of dumb luck of the draw. Unfortunately, even accounting for perfect embryos and textbook cycles and even when you throw your all at it, it doesn't always work. I had textbook cycles; 6 in total (4 fresh) and perfect embryos on 3 of those fresh cycles. That resulted in 2 BFNs a miscarriage and a healthy full term pregnancy (now a 5 year old mischief maker). As I say, dumb luck.  
The only other thing to consider is age is a factor in egg quality and, while they may look perfect, it's still possible on a genetic level there are issues that just can't be seen under a microscope. This is why IVF has less chance of succeeding in general with older eggs and why, over 40, there's a case for replacing more than 2 embryos to maximise chances. The two approaches to this would be to either a: hope for better luck and keep trying until you hit the jackpot or b: look at genetic testing of embryos so only viable ones are replaced. Then it becomes a numbers game of what's more cost effective for you. Certainly something you might want to think about for your follow up consultation.

C~x


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## Angel39 (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks Caz! I love your reasons too...it is funny how we beat ourselves up!  I also blamed having an argument with DH a week after ET and also how i might have "rested" too much instead of being more active!! If i had been more active i would have blamed not enough rest!!! Silly eh!

Thanks for the advice re options - I definately had thought age V egg quality is very relevant. Next time the clinic will transfer 3 (as I'm 40 next month) but will i produce 3 eggs or even fertilise 3?? I wish now I had started this process sooner but i just (naively) presumed that because i looked young for my age and I'm fit and healthy that it would be a case of going for IVF and getting out lots of eggs and them fertilising then BAM pregnant...hmm

Does ICSI reduce the change of the embryo developing and implanting? We had ICSI due to DH Vasectomy and i've always wondered that because the sperm is selected rather than fighting its way into the egg that the sperm may not be viable and therefore the embryo stops developing?

I think we will try again - with my own egg and DH sperm and see what happens and I'll ask about the genetic testing ...also, is there any merit in taking the embryos to blast before implanting?

Thanks,


XX


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## Betty-Boo (Oct 14, 2007)

Angel - if you produced a bumper crop - say 8 embies, then I'd say there maybe a worth of taking them to blast. But IMHO - I'd get them back on board where they belong - all snuggly   

Might be worth having a chat with consultant ref what supplements may help with egg quality. I did try DHEA, but with an AMH of 0.0, it really didn't do much but has done wonders for some:

*Poor Response/Low AMH/High FSH ~ *CLICK HERE

    

Take care and be very kind to you.

Mini xx


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## Caz (Jul 21, 2002)

Angel39 said:


> Does ICSI reduce the change of the embryo developing and implanting? We had ICSI due to DH Vasectomy and i've always wondered that because the sperm is selected rather than fighting its way into the egg that the sperm may not be viable and therefore the embryo stops developing?


Funny you should ask because there may well be some merit in that and, in the past, I know some studies suggest there's a higher chance of miscarriage after ICSI than IVF, and there's been all sorts of stories about higher possibility of genetic problems with children born from ICSI (although I can't see much wrong with my ICSI baby.  ) But, what you have to consider is ICSI was developed specifically to give a chance of parenthood to couples who would otherwise have no chance. Before ICSI, you're only option would be donor sperm and, if this was not something you could consider, childlessness. So while it comes with risks, they are fairly minimal and you weigh it in against all the other pros and cons when you go into this. 
I have seen a few mentions on the male Factors board about extended testing of sperm too, and I know sometimes after VR there can be issues so it's probably worth looking into that before assuming it might necessarily be all your eggs to blame. 

What Mini Minx says about DHEA is also something I would look into as I know a lot of women have had wonderful results with it. And generally look into how you can maximise your chances next time around. The complimentary/holistic approaches board has some suggestions that might appeal to you.

C~x


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## Angel39 (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks Caz I'll definately be doing some more research this time and looking at various options. I really want to get going again soon but will have to wait a bit - to save up and also we need to get DH booked in for a biopsy to get his sperm out as the aspiration was too painful for him last time - they only got 1 test tube's worth (bless him) !!! Cheers for your support - you're a star xx


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## Stretch (Jul 8, 2008)

Angel,


No real advice from me afraid just a huge crop of hugs       


BFN's are incredibly painful whatever the circumstances and everyone's circumstances are different so what might be a great result for one might be a disappointing result for another.........we are different and that is what makes us all special so trust your clinic and yourself and in time pick yourself up and go again if you can. DHEA has had some incredibly positive results so may well be worth looking into (one of my best friends got no eggs on her first try at 41, took DHEA for 5 months and got 4 eggs on the second one, 2 got put back in on day 2 and they are both due to celebrate their 1st b'day in March.....keep the failth   )


xxxx


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## emmaspacecadet (Feb 16, 2012)

Sorry for your BFN but please stop blaming yourself, I know I'm a right one talking! I had a BFN last September and like you had an O in my sleep a few days after ET so blamed myself for this. I had ET on Friday and yet again had an O Tuesday night (if only it was that easy normally  ) but feel better after reading some of the comments on here. People who fall pregnant naturally don't restrict themselves as they don't know what is going on and still get BFP's. 
Good luck for your next cycle and be kind to yourself, you've done a lot to get this far and it will make you stronger to carry one until you do get your BFP xxx


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## wagon1 (Feb 14, 2012)

Hi there, Your big 'O's' would have had nothing to do with it. I remember having loads of them on my second cycle after having two embryo's transferred and become pregnant with triplets....see my signature below to find out the full story it wasn't a happy ending but for a completely different reason.


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