# Tired of it



## Myownangel (Aug 24, 2005)

Hi there - haven't posted for a while, so don't kow if anyone remembers me. I've been doing pretty well out here in New Zealand, carving out a new life. But I've been having such a difficult time the last few days. I don't know, I just never seem to be free of this grieving and longing for what I can't have. Today I just phoned and cancelled a meeting with my preggo friend. But why did I even set up the meeting when I know she is 'size of a house'? Beats me. I am mad I think. Actually, I thought I could (or rather 'should') handle it. Out here I need all the friends I can get and it's ot her fault she is preggers. But I just can't face it - can't. And I hate myself for being like this. I want to be whole and 'normal' and not spend days just wanting to hide under the duvet. The other day in a social setting I met someone new and of course the topic 'Do you have children' comes up. And I said no. Conversation dried up. Nothing in common you see - I haven't gone baby brained and my life evolves entirely around OTHER THINGS. So why do I feel so left out and lonely. Will I ever get over this? I feel so low - and like I can't talk to anyone about this. No one in my circle is like me. 
Bernie :-(


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## Libran (Dec 15, 2009)

Bernie
I just wanted to say that you are most definitely not alone, and your post echoes all my own feelings and sentiments.  One of the hardest aspects of IF is the isolation and distance from friends.  For me, I have always valued my female friendships and I have tried hard to keep up contact with pregnant friends.  However, this has always been a huge struggle, and it is becoming increasingly difficult to the point where I often find myself no longer bothering.  I am totally fed up trying to make the effort to fit in to their child centred lives when they don't seem to want to make any effort to understand my life and feelings.  Whenever I phone friends with children, they always seem to be distracted (one ear listening out for the kids) or if we arrange a meeting, the children always have to come along too.  I try and listen to myself and my emotions, and I always try and be kind to myself.  On strong days, if I can cope with it, I will meet up or phone friends, but there are other days when I know I am best left alone, and, on those days I never force myself.  I listen to myself and what I want and need, and I put myself first.  That may sound selfish (and probably is selfish) but that's the way it is.  Personally, I have found that I actually relate better to older women, women whose children are grown up so their children are no longer the primary focus of their lives.  I too have recently moved to a new area, and I'm dreading having to meet new people.  We've all had the experience of stopping a conversation DEAD when saying "No, I don't have children" in response to the inevitable questions.  I just remind myself that if another female can only relate to you and assess your worth as a person in terms of whether or not you are a mother, then she is not worth knowing (or, at least, not someone that I would want to maintain a friendship with).


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## Montagne (Nov 27, 2008)

Hi Bernie and Libran

I do remember you Bernie.....(did you use to go on Babycentre too?). I haven't been on here for a while as I've been trying to "get on with it" and thought that putting a bit of distance between my poor head and thinking about IF all the time might help (not sure it has!).
I'm sorry to hear that you are finding it tough at the moment - it seems to come in waves doesn't it? It sounds like you have been phenomenally strong (moving to a new country and coping really well until now) - and I am sure that this strength will see you through this low patch and help you to continue to cope in the future. I know that I felt pretty proud of myself over New Year this time round (it is the anniversary of when I lost my little angel) as for once I didn't fall apart. I think I prepared myself for the fact that I needed to be gentle with myself and that worked. This past month however, I have felt low......lots of babies around again and I haven't really coped - but I know that time will move on and I will feel better again as you will. I am sure that this thing will never leave us, but we will get braver, stronger and develop strategies. Sure, we will trip up time and again and I know I will take this pain to my grave, but I don't want it to define me anymore. I too have felt that there is no-one else out there like me (I guess that makes us special) and I struggle with that, but there are some equally special people out there who at least try to include me sometimes and for that I am incredibly grateful. I have decided to concentrate on the few children who are truly special to me (my godchildren and my best friends' kids) and to not feel bad for not falling over myself to get to know others' children. THe lovely thing about this forum is realising that there are others out there - just reading your words makes me feel so grateful for checking in tonight - not because I am glad you have suffered, but because I am relieved to feel that my pain is not just self-indulgent nonsense (which is how I feel sometimes).
I had the hairdresser's question two weeks ago! She asked if I wanted children or not and I just said "I would have loved children, but it just hasn't happened". She was nice and just carried on the conversation in a fairly sensitive way......for once I didn't feel worthless or that my status was glossed over. My counsellor trained me to deliver the news in a way that is compassionate to the listener and that seems to be good advice.....
Anyway, I'm waffling now, but just wanted to say "Hi" to both and share your thoughts.....
Stay strong
S
X


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## nbr1968 (Feb 25, 2008)

Hi ladies - may i join you?

Everything you say is soooo familiar to me. Involuntary childlessness isolates us in so many ways - our friends with children try and tell us that having children is not "the be all and end all" - easy for them to say, i reply cynically. Have you found yourselves becoming more cynical, dare I say it "bitter"? (I must admit i do not like this "me" - I was never like this before IF pervaded my life! )

Those who never wanted children have not had to grieve the way we have, and so they cannot really relate. I too, did surround myself with women who had grwon up children - the trouble is now that has come back to "bite" me because those offspring are now producing grandchildren, and I feel the horror of those birth announcements all over again!

Bernie, like the other ladies have said, I don't think grief ever leaves us. Damn! Somehow we have to find a way to become less isolated or as Libran said, just become more "selfish" and put our needs first. Just like Libran, i now do alot of avoiding - in fact I am not a good example because since well before Christmas I have not seen any friends and have not really heard from alot of them - I think they don't know what to say to me - and frankly, before i would hav done all the running, but now I am just so tired of it all - tired of being upbeat when they tell me all about their lives/children/grandchildren - tired of shrugging off the issues of our childlessness - tired of fielding all the suggestions we get that "we should adopt" etc etc.

Montagne, I like the thought you had about delivering news in a compassionate way - it had been suggested to me that i should join a salsa group, or some other pasttime where it was unlikely to be conversations about children/families etc. But like Bernie, I dreaded the obvious "openers" about "do you have childrne" etc....your reply wouoldbe good because it would not kill the conversation flat!

Sorry i have not been able to offer a ***** of lightness - I did read a post on this part of the site:-
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=229626.0

from this lady who was so positive - and she is right - we do need to find our niche - wouldn't it be nice if society valued us a bit more though? I mean, everything we are bombarded with as women emphasises motherhood, and nurturing - every advert seems to be filled with family lfe, children, the next generation and society views those who have children as somehow more valuable than those who don't - why?

Finally, and I hope i don't upset anyone here - I am dreading Mother's Day - I like so many women on FF, was a "mother" or have tried to be a mother (for those who have not been lucky enough to become pg) - its just my little ones did not survive for whatever reason - can I have a card please and get a free lunch at one of the many restaurants offering that on Mother's Day? No!!!

Anyway, i am ranting now, so will shut up!

Take care all - Bernie, you have us here 
Nbr68xxx


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## nbr1968 (Feb 25, 2008)

Me again!

I have also found this link on FF from a lady called Meredith about the value of "ritual" to help us move on while honouring our grief

just thought it was a bit thought provoking;

what do you ladies think?

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=230297.0;topicseen

Nbr68xxx


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## Libran (Dec 15, 2009)

Hi Ladies
Nbr - I can totally relate to everything that you say.  We live in a child-orientated society in a child-obsessed world.  I guess that this (fundamentally) has its origins way back in history.  In pre-historic times, having children was a necessary sign of fertility / strength / good health, and having children added wealth and riches to the family.  It was actually a necessity to have children in order that they could look after you in your old age.  However, the historic reasons WHY we live in a child-obsessed world are largely irrelevant.  The fact is that we do, and, in that sense, I guess you could say that we are no different to any other "minority" niche group in society (of which there are many).  We live in this child centred universe, and the fact is that somehow, someway we have to learn to function and survive in it.  For me, I am happiest when I am alone with my dh.  I am at my unhappiest at social occassions such as family parties / weddings etc when there are invariably loads of children around.  Solution:  avoid (as far as absolutely possible) situations that I KNOW are going to make me unhappy and stick to situations in which I know I will remain comfortable and happy.  Sometimes a "sense of duty" takes over, but if I'm honest, rarely.  I don't know what else to suggest.  Avoidance is my coping mechanism, and I'm happy to risk being called selfish if that gets me through the day without the need for antidepressants.  I also know that I can't STOP life happening around me - I can't stop other people having children, I can't stop all the mothers-day cards in the shops or all the programmes on tv focusing on child-bearing and child-rearing, but I CAN try and control my interactions with it and reaction to it.    
As for ritual, I think that it is hugely important and I'm incredibly impressed by the work that Meredith is doing.  However, as I've never got as far as being pg myself, I'm not sure what form my "ritual" should take.


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## Rowan22 (Dec 29, 2008)

Hi Libran,

I feel the same. I've never even got as far as a positive on a pee stick. How can I mourn something I never, ever had?
I tend to use avoidance, too. I don't know how healthy it is, as you say, we can't stop the world having children and families are everywhere. Sometimes, I just get so tired of it. 
I even try to avoid shopping at weekends because that's when all the families shop. Fortunately, there aren't any children in my immediate family and I lost touch with friends who had kids years ago. 
I am dreading Mother's Day. I have to make an effort, for my own mother but of course, there's all this unstated grief that she's not a grandmother and I feel responsible. Of course, when I was in my twenties I didn't realise that was the only time in my life I'd be fit and healthy and able to have children. 
As Snoopy said, 'who invents all these holidays, anyway?'
I don't mind the TV programmes, up to a point but I do end up thinking I could make a better job of it! I don't think this is necessarily helpful - or accurate! - but I can't help it. It's even worse when you hear parents yelling at their kids in the street. 
You're right, the only thing we can try to control is our responses. We can't _make _our bodies conceive. I have other health issues, too and I can't make my pancreas work properly or get rid of the arthritis. Sometimes I hate this body but it's the only one I'm going to get. The only way forward is to try to work with it. This is a lot easier said than done. I can't even console myself by getting drunk or eating large amounts of chocolate! This means that even looking at Easter eggs is painful! 

Rowanx


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## florie (Nov 28, 2006)

Hey Bernie

Of course i remember you.....you always had such inspirational words for me and really helped me when i was low 

I'm sorry you are having a tough time at the mo, it must be really difficult with your friend being pregnant and sometimes self preservation is the best thing to do.....especially if you're having a low day. I'm sure your friend would understand that  

But i think you have summed things up when you say you have a life that focuses on other things and haven't got a baby mush brain....you are the stronger person. You have been so brave moving across the world and you have made a wonderful life for yourself. I am always inspired by how active and busy you keep yourself. Don't doubt yourself. I know you have been through so many losses and i don't want to seem dismissive of that. Isn't it normal for things to catch up with you sometimes? You are bound to have bad days....take time, be kind to yourself and try and focus on the positives in your life. Don't feel lonely, you can always talk to us   

Take care
Florie xxx

P.S PM me anytime   xx


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## florie (Nov 28, 2006)

P.S i forgot to say.....have you considered joining a group like More to Life? They are a branch of Infertility Network but purely for the Involuntary Childless. I have joined and it is good to speak to people in a similar situation and not have every conversation based on children etc. There may be a similar organistion in NZ.
Take a look at the UK site - http://www.infertilitynetworkuk.com/moretolife/

Hope it helps 

Florie
xxx

/links


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## Montagne (Nov 27, 2008)

Good morning ladies

I can't find the words to make a meaningful reply this morning (I think I must still be half asleep), but just wanted to let you know that you are in my thoughts.
S
x


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## brightspirit (Dec 29, 2009)

Hi girls and yes remember you Bernie you wrote such inspirational and amusing posts and was very impressed (and slightly envious) of you moving to NZ -but as with other parts of our life I guess we carry it with us and as the other
girls say don't be hard on yourself -meeting new people is hard but now I can honestly say it hardly bothers me (after a few years practice !) and I can truly say the pain has gone -maybe that's just hormonal memory loss but hey that's ok
  I have now retrained as a yoga teacher and half the students with me didn't have children which was a novelty for me and have made some great friends with/without children - to them I'm just me and have a wide circle of friend with/without some by choice some not ( I have later discovered )

  I guess what I wanted to say is we all have a right to be here and now I don't want to avoid things but also have a healthy respect for things I don't want to do

so please don't think that these feelings last for ever - life does move on as it must and we do get carried forward with it and there will be good things ahead which you may not have even thought about now ...


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## ktt1 (Nov 4, 2008)

Hi
Hope it's ok for me to join in. This and the miraculous life thread have been a big help to me today. We haven't given up trying, but as usual I'm a step ahead and thinking that I'm closer to the end of this than I was a couple of years ago, and how to think about closing the door if we have to. I know we might not have to, and when we start treatment, I know I'll be really optimistic again. In the meantime, I do want my life back. 

And I know exactly what you mean about avoiding friends with babies. I'm always looking at other women, guessing their age, and if they are younger, without knowing anything else about them, I'm jealous of them because they have got a better chance than me. It's stupid. And I have been avoiding my friends who have all had babies in the last couple of years. I'm hopeless at seeing them, and then get upset that I'm denying myself seeing their children grow up, which I wouldn't have missed if all this hadn't happened. And yes, I hate mother's day too. It feels like a big slap in the face to me.

Anyway. One of my friends keeps reminding me that John Lennon said life is what happens while you're making other plans. Something like that and I think it was him. So I am trying to not let it take over again, at least not for now anyway. So it is really good to hear about how other people are dealing with it, and that it won't always feel like this, and there is more to life, and to remember that I really am glad to be alive and healthy and to have a wonderful husband and a job I love..... 


Thanks for being there
K 
XX


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## Myownangel (Aug 24, 2005)

THanks everyone for your advice and support. I guess I'm at a different phase from those still going after treatment - because I know that the 'game is over' and I just have to get my head round it. Menopause will be my next challenge - oh what joy (!) And I do feel ok most of the time - but every once in a while I am floored and I am so fed up with it. Like now - my period is 5 days late. Even though I know it is next to impossible, it's got me wondering if maybe.. just maybe..? And I know in my brain that it is all due to my hormones winding down and my periods getting further apart. I guess the key is not to dwell on it - and focus on other things..
Bernie x


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## helen273 (Jan 26, 2006)

Hi Bernie

I've not been on here for a very long time aswell (like you), do you remember me? You sent me some really great PM's when I was very down a couple of years ago.

I'm now 43. And not showing any signs of giving up on being a mum however daft it is (and unrealistic). I just can't help it, until I get to menopause I dont want to give up

I've done some good things in the past two years, and have had a lot of good times with my DH, I guess we are getting by as well as we can, and most of the time we manage it fairly well.

But as you know, most of the time is not all of the time and like you I am finding being sociable with other women my age very 'tricky' (that's me being very polite!). I never mention infertility because I know as soon as I do they go quiet or start talking about adoption but I find it very difficult having so little in common with them, everytime I start a conversation with (certain friends) I get that withering 'I wish I had time to do that' look/comments. Makes me feel like hitting my head against the wall... I wish they'd realise that I'd dearly love NOT to have all the time on my hands that I do.. without me having to spell it out. 

Is life in NZ all that you'd hoped for? I am very envious that you've been brave enough to get up and go for it!

Helen x


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