# LGBT TTC a family though a known sperm donor



## Pilchardcat

TTC  a family though a known sperm donor thread.


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## duff

Hello!

This is us!  We're trying to concieve using a known donor, how exciting to have a new section of the board.


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## pem

And me, and me and and me!!!!! woohoo we have a new fabby dabby board, now i feel all special!!!!! Just need a BFP now!!!


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## nickster

Us too *Duff*! 

We're TTC with a very close gay friend of ours (and partner... in due course) in a co-parenting set-up, with ours as the 'primary' home.

All a bit complicated as they're living on the other side of the world at the mo, but somehow we've managed two attempts so far (only a day into my 2WW and I'm already tearing my hair out! ).

It's taken two years of discussion to get this far, and we can't wait to get cracking with our family! Is anyone else out there looking to co-parent?

Nickster x


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## nickster

Ooh *Pem * - we just posted simultaneously... how bizarre!!!


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## snagglepat

Hiya,

I know I'm passed the TTC bit for now but I wanted to pop on and celebrate this lovely board too. I've longed for a place to talk about known donor stuff for ages - for a while we were the only couple using one and it felt kind of strange when I wanted to hae a whinge or ask questions about it. Yey for this new board!!!!

Hi again* Nickster*.  We're not co-parenting I'm afraid, though with our original donor who was a good friend we were planning a kind of 'close uncle' type relationship. He also now lives on the other side of the world, but we're no longer trying with him. It's interesting though, as since we've conceived I've felt quite drawn to contacting him and welcoming him into this child's life in some kind of 'uncle' type way even though he's had nothing to do with the conception. The donor we're with now is going to have contact but very little involvement. We'd run out of friends we were comfortable asking when our donation relationship with our first donor fell through and didn't feel so secure trying to embark on something more involved with a stranger. I do love the concept of co-parenting though and would have definitely considered it if we'd had the right people in our lives at the right time. I think Rae might have been a bit more cautious though...

I console myself by promising to seriously consider being a surrogate to a gay male couple at some point once our family is complete, though time will tell on that one.

Do you mind me asking a few questions? I'm interested in how do you anticipate it working practically? Are your donors/co-parents going to move over here at some point? Our first donor is Australian, and I found it quite comforting to know that our children would potentially have homes on both sides of the planet as travel has been such a joy for me. It did make the practical side of our plans more interesting though. 

Oh it's so so good to have this thread. 

*Pem* and *Duff*, have you any idea when insems are likely to kick off for you both? I've got a feeling it must be pretty soon for both of you. *Nickster*, good luck with the 2ww. I did find they got easier the more we went through, but hopefully you won't find that out and this one will be the one for you. 

Best wishes,

Gina. x


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## pem

Hiya Again!!

This board is great, can have a yabber about all things known donor!! I can now give out a little more information about our 'story'.

Our Donor is a good freind who DP has known for a long time, me a little less time. He is a fantastic guy, for me everything i would choose if i was 'choosing' a donor per se. I guess we will be involved in a kind of co-parenting situation as we really want and are thrilled that our donor will have a level of involvement in our childs life that goes beyond simple contact. We plan to adopt any chilren formally so we will be the legal parents but P (our donor) will have regular visits and spend time with any children. It is difficult and worrying when you first consider all of this as a lot of trust is involved with little or no legal protection for anyone concerned. However Me and DP trust P absolutely and really want his involvement with any children we have together. When we had the m/c P was as devastated as us and it really brought it home to me how much love and what kind of a bond he felt for the unborn baby. It has brought us all really close, he gets as excited as us over when the next try will be and unfortunately for him he has had an education in how we women work, he knows more about my cycles than any man should know!!!!!

Gina - it's really interesting that you talk about thinking about surrogacy for a male couple, my DP feels in some way that she should donate her eggs at some point, i think for her it's some way of giving back that what P has done for us.
We feel incredibly lucky to have P, i am sure that he will be a great Dad and I hope that we can make a success out of any arrangement that we eventually come to.

I am now on Day 4 of this cycle, so insems to start again in 9 days...god I'm really nervous about it this time. Nervous about getting a BFN, nervous about getting a BFP and then m/c again, nervous generally. Hopefully this will be our time, we so want a family.

Nickster - Sending you loads and loads of luck     and     for this 2ww, lets hope this is the one for you!! I too am fascinated about your situation, will your child have dual nationality

Duff - Hiyah again... Hopefully we night be 2ww together, then we can tear our hair out mutually!!!    

Emma


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## nickster

Hello folks,

Well this is doing a great job of distracting me from my work (though not my 2ww unfortunately!).

A bit more info about our situation for you... as my friends know, I can yarn about this for hours, so I'll try to be succinct! 

When my partner and I seriously started to think about starting a family, we both knew pretty intuitively that we wanted the father to be involved, despite the added layer of complexity that it creates. J and his partner F were the obviously 'candidates'...

J's a uni friend of both me and my partner, and we've known him for nearly 12 years now (can't believe I'm so old!). Like you *Pem*, we trust him implicitly - that's never been in question. We know F less well, so I guess part of the last two years has been building our relationship with him.

Over the last 6 months we've been trying to define how the set-up will work, though none of us are under any illusions that it'll fall neatly into place. The basics are that we'll all have parental responsibility - and therefore involved in decision-making, financial support etc - and that the kid/s will primarily live in the UK with us (we're drafting a 'legal' parental agreement to set all this out).

J&F are currently living in Kazakhstan (I joke not!), though their permanent base is Paris (F is French and J is British but brought up in France; dual nationality hadn't actually occurred to me, but we're hoping that if we're lucky the kids might be bilingual!). We're not really sure how much they'll be able to see the kids - as much as is realistically possible with visits in both directions.

We're all slightly nervous that J&F might be very frustrated by their lack of involvement. On the other hand, we're all confident that we can 'make it work', that it 'feels right'. Plus we all have a pretty flexible outlook on life (e.g. F's already talked about giving up his career with the UN if that's what it takes) - and we're all very open / honest / considered people.

Sounds a bit idealistic doesn't it? But when I look at our own experiences it seems pretty foolish to try and model ourselves on a 'conventional' set-up (my dad died when I was small and I have a wonderful step-dad, both my partner and F's parents split up and they have step-parents on both sides etc etc).

So there you have it... I dread to think what our environmental footprint will look like...!  Feel free to ask me more questions!

And *Pem*, hope you manage to keep sane during your countdown - all good vibes for this time round...

Nickster x


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## duff

Hello!

Well, we had a bit of a blip last night, due to me misunderstanding something our donor had said and thinking that he didn't want to do it anymore. I think it's because we're so used to disappointment that we can't quite believe things will work in our favour. Anyway, it was all cleared up in the end.

I have a friend who used known donors about ten years ago. I remember her advice was "as soon as they say yes, get them to do it, before you all make it too complex!" Of course, this is _terrible _ advice really, but I can see her point! a couple of weeks ago everything was so simple and now..well, it's not complex really, it just needs a bit of working out.

Anyway, we're all hanging out at the weekend to chat (and eat). I can tell we're all coming from the same place on this but so much depends on trust, doesn't it? And although we all trust each other, we're going to put some things down on paper so we're all clear.

In other news, I did the female part of the fertell kit that I bought for him and my FSH is looking fine.


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## pem

Hiyah Duff!!

We had some similar experiences to you right at the start with our donor, you naturally jump on everything they say and interpret it often the wrong way, I think you're absolutely right that you simply can't believe everything is going so well. We got together socially the three of us a lot before we did the deed!!! Just to chat and eat and get all our feelings, views and thoughts out and in the open, we also worote some stuff down in a form of agreement, but in the end we have ended up not formalising anything, we are (naively possibly) just trusting our instincts and dealing with things as they come up. I can also see your freinds point...you just want to do it RIGHT NOW before anythign changes. Hope your meet and eat goes well and it's great news about your FSH levels, I worry about mine cus at last test (about 6 months ago) they were 9.2 and everyone elses on this site seem to be in the 6-7 region. Just another thing to stress about!! 

Things will work in your favour and one day soon you will be fantastic parents..

Emma


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## duff

Oh thanks Emma!

it's so good to know that other people have gone through similar.  I think, where it's slightly complex with our fella, is that he is married with teenage kids.  His wife is also a good friend of ours and is completely supportive.  Of course, they've discussed it with the kids who are really excited about it.  

It's all good, but needs some working out.  For instance, although none of us want a co-parenting situation and everyone understand that T and I would be Mum and Dad, we've got to take it on board that the future kid will have two half siblings.  

It's sort of more complex but also not.  I think a lot about how it will be for this future kid of ours.  It's quite something, for your Dad to have been born a woman but then to have got pregnant (fingers crossed) etc. My gut instinct though, is that having this "extended family" is going to help with that.


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## rosypie

Emma - my FSH was also high (which is also why I only got 4 eggs on my IVF cycle), I think actually it was in the low teens when I had treatment recently.

However, the first time round, with Jude, we conceived on a natural cycle IUI and my FSH was 9.1 at the time - so it is possible and I wouldn't worry too much about it.


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## ♥JJ1♥

Finding the right donor that you feel comfortable with can be hard, I think I have been extremely lucky and am blessed and so grateful., we have had no wobbles on commitment and it has been going on since 2005 now.  I had a few lesbian friends who has conceived, or tried to, with clinic donors around this time and this planted the seed in my mind. One had IUI's and IVF at LWC (had twins and a baby boy) and the other at Bart's with imported US sperm (before the law changed) but unfortunately BFN for her each time.

I mentioned a few times that I was thinking about wanting to have a child , and never met Mr Right, and 2 gay friends offered to help me immediately.  I worked with them that is how we all know each other - in fact I was their manager at the time - one desperately wanted to be a father and would offer anyone in sight. He would be a fabulous dad, but he very much wanted to co-parent, and this worried me slightly, he and had looked in adoption and fostering (at the time he was single but now is in a partnership) although he felt the local authority were discriminating him due to his sexuality at the time.  He was also from Australia and I did think that in years to come this could be an issue, and he was a party going recreational drug user, but a fantastic and stunningly attractive man.

My actual donor offered several times over the years but usually when he was drunk and then we never mentioned it till the next time, and it was in a sober conversation with a mutual friend there when she directly asked him, and he said "I've offered to help but she obviously doesn't want to'' he then text me back that evening reiterating that he was serious and would donate I just had to ask.  Then we had a few more awkward moments (mainly on my part) and conversations but after that it has been fine and we can talk about sperm counts etc like the weather.  He is in a long term committed relationship, at the time I didn't know his partner that well then.  I wanted to be sure that they both knew and wanted to go through with it so I sent them all the Lisa Saffron books I had, and articles and research that I had got.

We then arranged sexual health screens separately and then set to the task I would go to their house to do inseminations when I had an LH surge and we did it consecutively for 3 days - and I live over an 1- 1 1/2 hours away from them.  Also they worked shifts, and I didn't. I remember the first time going to their house, my donor was on a night shift, I'd been stuck in traffic on the M25 so I arrived and his partner then had been on the vino and wanted a philosophical chat, and I just wanted to get on with the deed, thinking about the sperm waiting upstairs and time ticking on!!  We worked out that he would be a donor, was happy to be known to the child and they would have an uncle of relationship, although we have talked about parental responsibility and if I died or went mad!! and he is happy to be named on a birth cert. He didn't really want the rest of the world to know he had donated,  but since then he changed his mind and doesn't matter, he has also told his family about donating to me.I don't mind one way or another.

We did 3 months of home insems- and were dab hands at it by the end, and had our routine and it wasn't awkward, but nothing happened. We had discussed doing it thought a clinic as a known donor.  Then it was a challenge to find a clinic that would treat us not as a couple!  We decided to go to a clinic and thought we would have IUI, then we discovered that he had a low sperm count. It was a devastating day for him, as they told him over the phone, it was such a shock to us as we never contemplated it, but it was a bit naive as 30-40% of men do have low counts these days- but he was a healthy, non-smoking, non drug user and generally fit man with social alcohol as his only vice!  Then I also discovered that we had to quarantine the sperm for 6 months and could only use frozen sperm due to HFEA rules, also as a known donor it is a few thousand pounds extra !  ironic as there is such a shortage of donors. He has acupuncture, some cupping procedure, Chinese herbs and vitamins and was great and he would go to the clinic and deposit so that we had some different dates and specimens to choose from.  The clinic said ICSI was our only chance of conceiving. He said that he would understand and wouldn't be offended if I wanted to ask someone else but the reasons I chose him still stand it just means a different method to try to get pregnant.

My donor's partner has always been involved and included and is so supportive, from coming to the clinic with us to giving my drugs, coming to the clinic with me for ET, scans, blood tests etc.  He stays with me 2 nights a week as he works at the same place as me and cuts down on communting.  They have been so fantastic and supportive thoroughout all this, and I couldn't wish or ask for better friends.

I got pregnant on my first cycle and then m/c later, my donor's partner came with me for the ET, and all the scans, and then ERPC. On my second cycle he came with me for EC- I never made it to ET. 

Then I decided to change clinic with better stats, as I had lost faith with how I'd been treated afterthe cycle had been abandoned. I then got us into a clinic that doesn't take non couples etc- but to be honest they never asked anything we've not had to lie about anything, they did ask how long we'd been together, and then focused on our previous cycles. I think he was more anxious about it than me - my donors partner still came with me and I would say that he was a friend  throughout my treatment. He has calmed me in my 'loosing it'moments, and probably is the only person who knows exactly what I've been through.

Now it is the  2WW I am at their house resting, and they have been fantastic.  My donor is at work, and donors partner is at my house as he is working for a few days, but he cooked us homemade organic meals so that we are looked after,he is also and avid /obsessive cleaner!! They both phone me throughout the day and make sure all is well. Test day 3 August.

I couldn't have asked for more supportive friends, and hopefully this time it will work!! They are planning to have another civil partnership (they had one before the law changed) and want a bridesmaid or a pageboy! I do sometimes have irrational paranoid thoughts that they will try and 'keep/take' my child, but they reassure me it isn't the case!!

L xx


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## pem

Rosy - Thanks for the reassurances, I was going to get it tested again but i think I'd better not, it's best not to know and just keep on trying regardless. I convince myself that as I conceived last time, the eggies must be ok!!

Duff, - The family any future child of yours will have will be a fantastic family, me and DP were only saying yesterday how great it will be for our kids to have three parents as opposed to the norm of 2. We all and our families come on all sorts of shapes and sizes, my own family is far from 2.4 children with a nice middle class mum and dad happily living out there retirement at Pear Tree Cottage ( not that there's anything wrong with that either). I think in this world that we live in love, warmth and understanding matter so much more than anything else. My DP and I have worked for many years with young people whose lives are a complete and utter total mess due to lack of parents care and ability to parent. you and DP both want to love and care for a child and give he/she a warm and secure home, there's not much else a child fundamentally needs ... I really really hope this works out for you!

JJ1 - What a long road you have travelled, your donors partner sounds great...heres to some     for you and a BFP just round the corner!!

Nickster - hows that 2ww coming along Are you managing to keep sane??

Well, I am getting closer to insem time now and i am getting more scared and worried as the days pass, hate the 2ww (don't we all) and just want to get pregnant and then fall asleep for 12 weeks, wake up and everything be fine..don't want much do I

Emma ..counting down the days till wednesday!!


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## duff

It's so good to know that we all have irrational doubts, paranoia and fear about this process now and again!  I'm going to write something down for us me and T, our donor and his partner to sign and have copies of.  I know it's not legally binding but I think it will save there being a situation in the future where anyone might say "but I thought you said..."  It'll all be as clear as it can be.  

It looks like we're good to go though!  for all my talk of getting away from medicalisation, T's got me doing this complex persona machine every morning and a medical friend has given us a speculum.  I'm also going to buy some of this special lube that people talk about, "Pre Seed" (T cracks up everytime I say that name, for some reason  )  

Good luck JJ1 and Nickster    and Emma for Wednesday  !  I think we'll be trying on Friday and then the following Monday.  The Monday makes sense according to my cycle but I want to do an early one, just because I always wanted to do it early when we were at the clinic.  There's always a point a couple of days before the surge when I think "now!" so I'm going to go with that.


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## pem

God Duff, I am so with you on the i want to try now, I am sure that i am 'fertile' today as opposed to starting tomorrow, we are set for early tomorrow, thurs eve and fri eve but i am worried that all the ewcm I have now, despite the lack of strong pink line on the OPK means we should start today...it's hell, you just want to give yourself the best chance don't you..ooh i hate all this, at least we will be 2ww together, can have a moan and a worry together!!

Good luck for friday!!

worry werret Emma!! x


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## snagglepat

*Pem*, if you've got ewcm, do it now! You've got the benefit of being able to use fresh sperm so it'll live inside you for several days as long as there's ewcm to nourish an support it. The cycle we conceived, my fertility nurse (who was tracking me by scan) and every other 'predictor' sign said to insem on the Friday and the Saturday. My instincts and ewcm said do it earlier and I listened - we inseminated on the Thursday and Friday. I'm sure I felt myself ovulate late on the Friday, so although a Saturday insem might have been fine, it also might have been too late.

All the reading I've done and the years of experience now say that the most useful sign is ewcm. If you have it, the sperm will live in it happily for some time, be nourished and be able to swim through it easily. If you don't have it, it doesn't matter when you time the insem in relation to when you ovulate, the sperm just won't get through. Once that sperm is in your tubes it can hang around for a while if it needs to waiting for that precious egg, but it needs that ewcm to be able to get there.

Oh I'm so excited for both of you! I'll be sending positive thoughts to the little swimmers in your nether regions over the rest of the week.   

Good luck!

Gina. xxx


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## pem

Thanks for that Gina, just before I read this post, I have phoned DP to ask for P to make a visit tonight, I am having definite aches in those regions that only mean one thing...OPK tests never even got a line last month so I am listening to my body and going for it, I am convinced those bloody dipsticks don't work, all the time we were having clinic insems (and failing to get pregnant) we were made to wait up to 48 hours after the pink line and I was always convinced it was too late. All my firkling around tells me today is the day...all the tell tale signs on the cervix etc...I am excited now..Thanks for all your good wishes

Come on eggy, come on eggy!!

Emma xx


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## duff

Hurray Pem!  I hope your visit can happen tonight.  I don't know enough about EWCM.  Do you have to poke around at your cervix to find it?


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## Tonia2

OMG!! so much is happening in the next few days! Good luck Duff  and Emma!!    Good luck for tonight Emma!!! Woo hoo!!

I'm just thinking I'll embarress myself completely right now  and ask for clarification on something - when we were planning to use a known donor and do it oursleves, (as you guys are) my research taught me that all that the only thing required (besides the fresh sperm, of course) was a 5 ml syringe... Is the idea of using a speculum to enable you to get the sperm further up, or are you using a catheter too, like they do in the clinic to put the sperm through the cervix, inside the uterus?? And what the heck is Pre-seed??  I'm sure you can't buy it over here...! 
Also, while I'm on a roll and being so graphic  - can someone give me the details on how to tell ewcm from anything else going on down there?? And the cervical changes etc? I have a rough idea but aren't really sure, and could do with a detailed reminder. Part of the reason I'm asking (besides warped curiousity, that is) is because I'm seriously considering the possiblity of trying with a known donor next year if we have no luck in the next few months. So I need to start taking more careful notice of what's going on with me in the cycles that I'm not having treatment. So, please, do share!! 

Love Toni
xx

PS Gina  - did you get the email I sent to your hotmail address?  Thinking of you and your poor feet. ( I bought my first pair of Crocs while I was in Melbourne, in the hope that I would have pregnant feet over summer and they would be the only thing I could wear!!  Everlastingly hopeful...)

PPS Duff - we posted at the same time...  timely question I must say...


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## pem

Hiyah Tonia,

We don't use a speculum for insems, just for inspections of the cervix....    . Dp has a good luck at mine with a head torch on her head...how lovely and romantic, not at all conducive to your sex life!!

I bet Gina can answer these questions really well, resident expert on all this ttc, how lucky are we to have her, but i will give it a go!!

Ewcm is as i understand the mucus that arrives during fertile times and has particular chemical properties that allow the sperm to travel through it easily and also holds the sperm in chemical 'pockets' whilst waiting for Mrs Eggy to make her entrance!!! It isn;t hostile to sperm and As Gina says, it nourishes them.

It is distinguishable from other mucus becuase it is clear, stringy, tacky and stretches betwen your fingers like egg white, but it can be mixed with the other creamy white mucus. I can tell I have it becuase it is there when i wipe after going to the loo, but you can feel it around the edge of your cervix with your fingers and DP tells me that it runs out of my os ( the opening in my cervix) at fertile times when she looks with the head torch/speculum combo!!

I have significant cervical changes that consist of my cervix being much lower down, i can feel it much easier, it is also much softer and squidgier to touch and the os is wide open. The os is very clear to see through the speculum and DP tells me it does look very different. It shuts again pretty soon after ovulation!!

I think Preseed does the same job as ewcm, stops the sperms being kiled by hostile mucus?? Sure Duff will know the answer to that....

This ttc does get you to know your own body so much better, my mum, DP and me now know things we had no clue about before!!!

Here we go Duff....

Thanks for everyones good wishes!!

Emma xx


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## snagglepat

Hehehe - busy thread today - all the excitement about *Emma*'s wonderfully fertile-sounding body is clearly infectious.  Good luck for tonight *Emma*! I'll be sending lots of positive thoughts your way.

Emma, you posted while I was writing this and you've explained it all wonderfully. I'll leave what I wrote in too though so Tonia can get a double whammy of answers. 

*Duff*, I wanted to say, I have a copy of the contract that we used with our known donor. It was originally drawn up by a lawyer and when Natalie Gamble (from this site) came and saw us last month to sort out our wills and help us with our parental agreement she looked it over and said it was very similar to others they've seen and is one of the better ones out there. Obviously, it's not legally binding but we found it was a really useful place to start to make sure we'd discussed everything we needed to and really were singing from the same hymn sheet as our donor. If you'd like me to email you a copy I'd be happy to - just PM me your email address. You may or may not actually want to use it, but it might serve as a useful crib sheet to guide you through discussions etc.

*Tonia*, oh how I love taking about the practicalities of known donoring!  Duff will be able to tell you more about how they plan to use a speculum, but from what I've head, others seem to use it to make sure they place the sperm as close to the opening of the cervix as possible. It's generally a bad idea to try and do home IUIs because everything needs to be sterile and the sperm is always 'washed' before this is done at a clinic. Basically you're bybassing all your body's natural defensive mechanisms to keep infection out of the uterus so you need to be really careful. We've used both 5ml and 10ml syringes over the years. We had success with a 5ml but I'm sure the size of the syringe didn't actually have an impact, it's just the 10ml ones are a bit longer so can go a bit further up. We didn't use a speculum at all, not even to monitor the cervix, although we did have a nosey once or twice early on we never continued to use cervix signs as a guide. For us, it was just a matter of going with the OPKs (when they worked) and ewcm, plus the info from my clinic once I was under them for ovulation induction. When it actually came to the insem we just drew it up into the syringe (new one each time), lay down with a pillow under the bum (covered in a towel in case of 'leakage' - a necessary evil side-effect) and popped it up.

Ewcm is identified mostly by its texture. If you get some of your mucus on your fingers, hold them together and then draw them apart, then if the mucus stretches out between them then it's getting on for ewcm. Most of the time it won't stretch much if at all. Ewcm is also a bit more 'runny' than mucus at other times, and as the description indicates, it also tends to be paler, often transparent rather than white/creamy in colour. Of course, everyone is different so there'll be personal variations in that, but that's the idea. Mine never went transparent, but it definitely went a more watered down kind of white colour then normal. If it looks and feels kind of like egg white, then it's looking good. 

The internet being what it is, I've even managed to find a picture of it: http://www.tryingtoconceive.com/store/ewcm5.htm Mine was always a bit more cloudy in colour than the stuff in the pic. Is that TMI yet? 

I tended to actually reach inside up to my cervix to check my mucus rather than go by what has already come away. I figured it would have dried out some on the way so would be less accurate. I'd insert two fingers to my cervix, then give it a gentle squeeze, or just 'fish around' near it for a moment if I couldn't reach properly, then when I drew my fingers out I just had to pull them apart to see what my mucus was doing.

Pre-seed is a type of lube that, unlike most lubes, has no spermicide in it and has also been developed so that it supposedly helps the sperm along the way, mimicking ewcm essentially. We never used it and until Duff I didn't know anyone who had so I can't give an opinion on how good it may or may not be. It does have a web site though: http://www.preseed.co.uk I'm definitely interested to hear how well you guys get on with it Duff.

Woo hoo, what a ramble!  *Tonia*, I'm so excited about you maybe using a known donor next year, although of course, I also really hope that you get success with your frosties and it isn't necessary. Sending tons of positive vibes your way.

And massive amount of happy fertile lovey-dovey-ness to Emma and Duff. Keep us posted!

Gina. x


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## duff

Gina - I'll PM you my email address, I'd love to have a look at that contract of yours.

Wow!  Thanks Gina and Emma, what a wonderful lot of helpful information!  We're having a "dry run" (snigger) this evening to practice it all, try out the hip-propping positions and see if the speculum is needed or not.  The pre-seed is partly for if we do need the speculum.  Although I got used to jiggery pokery with all the various scans and treatments at the clinic, I'm still not totally relaxed about stuff in there.  I mean, I had to drink a cup of tea and sit quietly for a while after reading your description of two fingers squeezing your cervix Gina!


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## pem

Good God Gina, that mucus in the picture is positively amazing...I shall aspire to have that one day, I am not quite the mass producer that she clearly is!!!

I have something quite embarassing to admit to.....we had a few practice runs with wait for it...natural yoghurt!!!! To determine whether or not to use the insted cup thingymebob...I could not get that thing up there without losing every drop of yohghurt on the way..so we decided maybe that was not the way forward for us     .

I am now an expert 'fisher arounder', quite happy to squeeze my cervix, actually I am quite fond of my cervix     bless her!!!

Ooh this is all so very exciting, this chat has lifted my nervous spirits!!

Emma x


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## duff

pem said:


> whether or not to use the insted cup thingymebob...


What's this? I must have one! Is it like a mooncup to keep the sperm in there?


----------



## Damelottie

When that mucus stuff appears - is is too late by then? Or is that the time to GO??

I've been wondering that because I'm not convinced about these little lines either. I'm sure they were too late on both my diui's

Good Luck Emma xxxx


----------



## pem

When the mucus appears, It's time to go!!!!! Get them   going !!!! I definitely do not trust them little lines...think it's different with frozen sperm though as it does not live as long inside the body....another question for Gina me thinks!!

Well, thats what i'll be doing tonight anyway!!

Duff - the insted cup is a mooncup i think, God I hated that thing it gave me nightmares, I was convinced it was going to fall out, that was after i had lost all the yoghurt. Would hate to think it was the real deal and poor P had made all that effort for nothing. But I think other women have a lot of success with it, so you could give it a go!! I simply propped up my pelvis during and after the insems for about half an hour and i didn't get too much 'leakage' .

and now this really probably is TMI but following advice from the ladies on this site, I always tried to have an Orgasm following insems as the contractions help pull the swimmers up. There is a whole thread dedicated to this issue somewhere and a lot of the ladies doctors recommend that they try to have one be it DIY or otherwise    . Fringe benefits maybe!!! Certainly worked for me last time!!

Sorry for the TMI, but as we are now comfortable with eachothers cervixs, I thought i would share that advice...!!

I ordered a Lisa Saffron Kit off ebay which has syringe, mooncup and loads of really useful reading material in about the insems, all your bits and peices and some good stuff re what role the donor plays. It costs about 12 quid but the reading material is good stuff. It is still available below!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/The-Self-Insemination-Kit-everything-you-need-to-know_W0QQitemZ220134674786QQihZ012QQcategoryZ30118QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Emma x


----------



## Tonia2

OH my lord, you guys are hilarious!    But very knowlegable and experienced, by the sounds of it!! I recognise the stuff in the picture!!  (thanks Gina) so good to know I am already relatively tuned in to my cycle!! I thought I knew, then wasn't sure... But all the stuff about the cervix is new information! Brilliant! There's going to be some serious poking around going on. The speculum and headtorch story had Bron & I in fits! We have a couple of headtorches already, will ask consultant for a disposible speculum next time I see him!! Heh!! Can't wait to join in the fun! 

Just to clarify something I do know - the 'mooncup' is actually a menstrual cup, used instead of tampons etc. Gina put me onto it last year and I use mine during AF (and I love it and it's cool not to be throwing heaps of tampons etc away, so environmentally it's somewhat guilt-relieving. I'll admit it took some gymnastic-type poking around to learn how to use it though, but I'm completely sold on it now  ). Here's their site: www.mooncup.co.uk  So I'm thinking the insted cup might be something a bit different. The Lisa Saffron kit people don't post to Australia.  Anybody got any ideas on how I can get one otherwise?

Good luck - hope you had a good night last night Pem!!  

Fingers crossed, 
Love Tonia


----------



## duff

well thank goodness we had a dry run last night!  We've decided not to use the speculum afterall because it led to much fuss from me, and then a bit of bickering.  I don't know what my problem is, I let those clinic nurses do all sorts to me without fuss but gave poor T a hard time  .  Mind you, she did squirt cold lube all over my thigh and then accidently yank the speculum out when she was trying to raise my hips.  

So we're going to use the simple "putting the syringe in" method.  Oh, and T had a poke around and found some of that cm stuff!  Not yet stretchy but we still ooohed and aahed over it.  

You know, the pre-seed is actually not for me at all, it's for our donor.  I'm on such a learning curve, I had no idea fellas used lube for that.  He said otherwise it might take him ages, which makes sense.  Anyway, I don't really know the mechanics of what he's going to do with the stuff so thought we best get the lube that helps rather than hinders the sperm.


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Good Morning

Here is a thread about the Instead/mooncup .....

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=103275.msg1479271#msg1479271

To be honest Pem I wouldn't trust it either with the precious sperm  it is different with a litre of yoghurt sitting in the fridge!!, when we were inseminating at home I used a syringe and then put the cup thing in to stop them escaping just in case and it is uncomfortable!! I'd also heard the tip about organsm helping suck them up!!

I can never find my cervix!! but am assure it is there, you can get disposable speculums, some clinics use them not sure if you can get them from medical supplies shops/ ebay, but there is a knack in putting them !! (speaking as a nurse) in and you can damage the cervix if you are not careful, they come in different lengths and sizes. Also a tip if your using a metal one run it under a warm (not hot) tap to make it more comfortable, and you can use lube to slide it in.

Best of luck with your insems this week so exciting Duff and Pem!!! 
L xx


----------



## nickster

Hello! Don't think I need to add much to the expert advice that's already been given! 

Since J (dad-to-be) is having to fly into the country each time, we decided to fork out for a ClearBlue fertility monitor (about £80 from one of those discount online chemists, plus £10 a month for sticks). It's supposed to give you more warning than OPKs as it monitors both oestrogen and LH, plus it's fairly idiot-proof (no bad thing! )

Anyway, I've used it for three months now, and it does seem to align with changes in my CM and OPKs, which I guess is quite reassuring if nothing else.

We haven't bothered with speculums (or head torches ) - my partner's just guided in the syringe by feeling her way! She was also tempted to try getting the  right up into the cervix / uterus (she's a surgeon, but of the bone-fixing variety!). Anyway, she was strongly advised not to - as someone said, the sperm _have _ to be washed first.

How did it go last night *Emma*? I'm counting the days now - good luck everyone else on 2ww!


----------



## pem

I'm paranoid today, as usual, have i done it at the right time, is everything ok, have i eaten enough greens etc etc etc etc.

all went well last night, no spillage, no disasters, just me, bum in the air, waiting patiently, reading my book     

Ooh Duff - speculum nightmares, cold lube, such pleasant experiences we have!! i think the syringe works fine, Gina says to leave it in for a little while after!! 

So I am on the wait now, lets raise a glass (of orange juice obviously) to all our wonderful donors, fantastic people that they are!!

Emma


----------



## Damelottie

Good luck Pem xx


----------



## Damelottie

nickster said:


> Since J (dad-to-be) is having to fly into the country each time, we decided to fork out for a ClearBlue fertility monitor (about £80 from one of those discount online chemists, plus £10 a month for sticks). It's supposed to give you more warning than OPKs as it monitors both oestrogen and LH, plus it's fairly idiot-proof (no bad thing! )


Is this one where it takes your temperature each morning?


----------



## snagglepat

I'm a mooncup user too, have been for years, and for AF it's a dream. However, it is a bit fiddly to use and I generally have to squat to get it in which is never going to work well in combination with a 'don't let any sperm escape' moment.    I've heard others using various cups and I can see the logic, but as a hardened cup-user for other things I just felt it wasn't going to work for us. We tended to do our insems last thing at night and I'd leave the syringe in as a kind of 'plug' until we were about to go to sleep. That combined with lying down for 10 hours or so felt enough really.

We also tried the orgasm thing when we fist started trying, but I have to admit, after 5 or 6 months of 2-3 tries each time the 'mood' was a lot harder to summon and we gave up. I also found that the muscle spasms of an orgasm seemed to push some of the sperm out. Although I'm sure plenty of it stayed where it needed to there was that slight sense of 'stay, please stay, we need you!!!'. We'd always have a cuddle while we were lying there, as any one of those times could have been 'the one', but orgasms left the picture years ago. Rae is sure that the time it worked it did so because she lay her head on my belly and talked to the sperm, giving it directions and encouraging it. Who am I to question such logical thought? 

However, with all these things, some things will work for some people and others for others.

I've just had a look on ebay and it seems there are lots of people who sell speculums on there, starting from a few pounds for the plastic disposable ones. Who'd have thought they'd be so popular? 

*Nickster*, it's good to hear your positive stories about the fertility monitor. If nothing else, it must ease any stresses about knowing if you got the timing right or not. I know that was always in the background for us however sure we seemed to be at the time.

*Emma*, I've got everything crossed for you! My glass currently contains Mango Lassi (it's got fruit, calcuim and friendly bacteria in it) but it I most definitely raise to our wonderful donors. Where would we be without them? (Well, not on our backs with our legs in the air and with our partners weilding strange contraptions and head-torches for a start...)   

Big hugs all round,

Gina. x


----------



## nickster

> Since J (dad-to-be) is having to fly into the country each time, we decided to fork out for a ClearBlue fertility monitor (about £80 from one of those discount online chemists, plus £10 a month for sticks). It's supposed to give you more warning than OPKs as it monitors both oestrogen and LH, plus it's fairly idiot-proof (no bad thing! )
> 
> 
> 
> Is this one where it takes your temperature each morning?
Click to expand...

Hi *Emmalottie*. Actually, it's just a delux pee-on-a-stick machine with a digital display. Because it detects oestrogen (which increases _before_ the LH surge) it can give you up to 5 days' warning of ovulation.


----------



## Damelottie

Thanks for the reply.
Thats sounds better for me. I don't like the temperature ones because I just forget to do it in the monrings before I've done anything else

xxxx


----------



## nickster

> Nickster, it's good to hear your positive stories about the fertility monitor. If nothing else, it must ease any stresses about knowing if you got the timing right or not. I know that was always in the background for us however sure we seemed to be at the time.


True... though I'm beginning to think we didn't try early enough this time around.

Unfortunately we missed the first day (when my CM was at its most abundant! ) because J arrived with a terrible migraine. I thought it was a bit mean to ask him to get down to business straight away - he seemed incapable of doing anything but lie down in a darkened room - but maybe I should have been more forthright... 

Oh well - we'll find out soon enough! My mind is clearly wandering - _must _ get back to work...


----------



## pem

Nickster, don;t worry I am sure that most of us get cm for days before ovulation so I am sure that waiting for one day won't have done any harm, ole eggy lives for quite some time herself..so keep positive, it's not over till the fat lady sings and I haven't sang yet so you're ok!!

I know this 2ww is really tough, i go nutters everytime, keeping my fingers crossed for a positive result for you!!


----------



## lucky2010

Just to let you guys on 2ww know I'm thinking of you and sending lots of bump-vibes your way.... everything crossed.

Rach and bump x


----------



## pem

Thanks Rach, i'm already going mad!!


----------



## nickster

Hey *Emma*! Just seen your message on the pregnancy thread. Try to stay sane m'dear... Not sure if you should read too much into your OPKs - they're so fickle, and you could easily have missed the few hours when you actually surged. Plus, as you say, all the other signs are good. So now you can just sit back, relax, and enjoy your 2ww... NOT!!!

Thanks for the vibes *Rach*. I'm actually 99% sure AF is a-coming...  Have been getting my usual backache, and now feeling a bit crampy/queasy (the latter is probably just nerves). Finding it hard to take my mind off it for even a few minutes. My gf's been stuck at work late the last few days, so I've been kicking around the house not knowing what to do with myself.

Will no doubt keep y'all updated as events unfold!

nickster x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Rachel - Thanks I have no signs or symptoms either way!!!!! D day is tomorrow for me!!!

Pem- Love the chicken!!!

Nickster-It's not over hang in there- these things are set to try us and turn us mad, as if we are not neurotic enough analysing every ache/pain!!

Wishing  you all luck   
L xx


----------



## duff

Good luck gang!  

No news from me.  we bought the preseed lube only to discover it comes in handy vaginal applicators so no good for our donor afterall!  Still, I'm considering taking my spare clomids maybe next cycle if need be, so it might come in handy then (clomid can dry up cm)  

I'm supposed to be hoovering, ready for tomorrow night when we do the business.  Better get to it!


----------



## snagglepat

*Nickster*, I was so sure AF was coming the cycle I got pregnant, my pre-menstrual symptoms were even worse than they usually were - and they continued for the next two weeks which really didn't help my paranoid state about whether everything was OK or not. I literally expected to bleed any minute but it did eventually ease. I know of others on here whose best sign that they were pregnant was an increase in premenstrual symptoms. It's not over till it's over mate. Sending tons of positive vibes, and on Duff's recommendation, a smoking pumpkin just for you. 

*JJ1*, I'm on tenderhooks! Thinking of you and avidly awaiting your news. Fingers toes and dodgy knee all crossed for you here.

*Duff*, that's a shame about the pre-seed. Couldn't he squirt some of it out somehow anyway? It sounds like a remarkably short-sighted approach on the behalf of the manufacturers - surely there are loads of guys who are dealing with IF (or their partners) who have to do the need in little rooms all the time, and who might appreciate a little pre-seed assistance. Maybe we should start a campaign to get them to change their packaging!  Good luck to you guys for tonight. Here, have a smoking pumpkin from me too: 

*Emma*, good luck to my fellow Midlands lass! Hopefully your chickens will be bringing you luck as well. They lay eggs all the time (once they're big enough to) so surely they must have some good fertility vibes to spread around. 

We didn't use OPKs at all in the end. It didn't seem to matter which brand I tried but I'd always get a positive reading for days so they were never much use. Mucus is the way to go in my book! (And it's cheaper!) The OPKs did work for Rae though. I guess I just produce slightly more LH than the tests are designed for. Ultimately we're all going to produce slightly different amounts and it's just tough as the tests only seem to come in one concentration.

*Toni*, we bought the Lisa Saffron Kit and there was nothing in there that we couldn't have sourced ourselves or that we we couldn't have learned from a forum like this or some of the other books we had. In fact, I think it held us back in some ways as it only included one syringe which we washed and reused for a while. Eventually we decided to buy a load in from a medical supply site and use a fresh, sterile one each time and we only started getting our BFPs after that. I don't know if that made a difference or not, but it felt like it did to us.

Best wishes to all of you!

Gina. x


----------



## nickster

Thanks *Gina*. I hardly slept a wink last night but you're right, I must stay positive! 

Determined to distract myself today, so I've made a long list of activities: mow the grass, wash orlando (my morris minor!), make blueberry muffins (homegrown berries - so proud!), go swimming (in the sea!).

Plus a lovely friend and his boyfriend have made a last-minute decision to visit us for the weekend. We're springing it as a surprise on my gf... I just need to concoct a ruse to go to the ferry terminal - hmmmmm.

Any news *JJ*? I'm on tenterhooks!

Stay positive *Pem*.

And good luck for tonight *Duff*...


----------



## pem

Hey girlies!!

Well, we had another 'go' last night and I'm pretty convinced tht yesterday st some point was the day of the Big 'O', so hopefully somewhere in my innards there is a miracle occuring as I type this!!

Nickster - your day sounds fab, want to send some of them muffins my way I couldn't sleep for nothing on the last night before I tested as i had terrible AF pains and all the associated symtpoms all the evening and just lay there all night waiting for the witch to show up..but she didn't and the next morning i got that all important faint line..so don't take those AF signs as a BFN cus for me they were a BFP !!  Lots of good luck and     for sunday and enjoy your weekend with your mates.

JJ1 - thats three of us on tenterhooks waiting for your news,    

Gina - I've given up on the OPK's for this month and stopped the stressing, cest la vie and all that. Going to hang around the chickens now all day and get their egg producing vibes to pass on to me!! We just have to keep on going till it happens for us, luckily for us, the whole thing is serving to make us stronger as a couple, thanks for your good wishes, I am determined to stay positive from here on in whatever the result!!

Duff - Good luck for tonight, I will be thinking of you (well, not literally!!) hope it goes well and your donor can squeeze a little of that preseed out anyway, it's expensive that stuff..sending you lots of     for that eggie!! 

Heres to lots of preggers ladies on this thread and lots of spring babies next year!!!

Emma!! xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Thank you so much for you kind wishes and support for me on HPT this a.m. it was a , I had the obligatory bloods done but they haven't rung me yet, but I don't expect a change.

Nickster, Pem, Duff  for you guys

Have a lovely weekend and thanks for your support and best of luck with the insems 

L xx


----------



## nickster

Oh no *JJ * - that's rubbish. 

Worth holding on for the blood results though - take it AF isn't with you yet?

xxx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

No AF but have been on Gestone jabs so I kinda think it keeps it away.  My donors partner has been fab and so supportive, my donor is at work.  They have both said they will support me and continue if I was worried, as it has been 2 years of this rollercoaster now!  

Take care and  for you guys to add some more bumps (although I could pass for 6 months pregnant at the moment!)
L x


----------



## duff

I'm so sorry JJ1.


----------



## pem

JJ    , So Sorry...


----------



## duff

I'm so happy that your donor and his partner are still up for it though, JJ1.  You're a really strong team, you lot.


----------



## lucky2010

So sorry JJ x x x xx


----------



## Tonia2

oh JJ - I'm so so sorry. It's just not fair.       
Hopefully the boys are fitting some serious pampering of you into their busy weekend.  Hang in there hun, be gentle with yourself,  
Big hugs from around the globe:  
Love Tonia 
xx


----------



## snagglepat

Oh *JJ1*,

I'm so sorry. You so deserved this to work. Is there any chance it could wrong? I guess the bloods and AFs arrival or not in the next few days will tell. I can't help keeping a part of me hoping for a positive outcome until there's absolutely no way it could be anything other. I'll keep hoping for you anyway, just in case.

Sending huge hugs to you. Do you have anyone with you that can offer pampering/love/distraction these next few days?

Gina. x


----------



## nickster

My instincts were right dammit... it's not going to be the month for us. 

Consolation is that we're on schedule for J's next visit... And that the sun is shining... And that I can have a beer on the beach.

Here's hoping that the next 2ww crew has better luck...

xxx


----------



## snagglepat

Really sorry to hear it *Nickster*, but your consolation prize does sound appealing. I know how disappointing it is though, so here are some big hugs from me:    Fingers crossed it'll be third time lucky for you guys.

Gina. x


----------



## duff

oh bum Nickster!  Enjoy your beer(s) on the beach in the sunshine.

Well we did it last night.  Our donor was very nervous, so we all had a stiff drink together first.  I was very relaxed about the whole thing, T was titilated and over-excited  .  Anyway, all went well, everything seemed to stay where it was meant to be and I fell asleep pretty much instantly afterwards (nothing unusual there!)!  Next go on Monday.


----------



## lucky2010

Sorry Nickster   enjoy the sunshine this weekend x

Fingers crossed Duff x x x


----------



## duff

How's it going Emma?

We did the deed again last night.  We were all much more relaxed and didn't need the stiff drink this time.  

Here's a weird thing, I've felt really weepy since.  Can you get mood swings around ovulation?  It feels just like PMT.


----------



## Alison0702

*Duff * I didnt want you to think that your old lezza flatmate had forgotten about your 2ww..so here she is for some good luck


----------



## duff

way aye the pumpkins Alison!  


I'm checking the other thread to see when you get your pictures fixed, I can't wait to see those twins!


----------



## Spangley

Hey there Duff

Fingers crossed for your 2WW

Here's a lovely fat   from me too


----------



## duff

Aww thanks Spangley!  You know what though, it really feels like more of a process this way than when we were at the clinic. I mean, it doesn't feel so much like it *has* to work this time or anything.

I'm thinking this is more like a first date for the egg and sperms, you know, just seeing if they can get along. Actually something funny our rude donor said last night, well we'd tried to make it all conducive for him and he said he'd enjoyed the experience so much, he'll come back to donate again even if it has worked!


----------



## pem

Nickster - How completely ****, hope you enjoyed your beer in the sunshine!! Good that you can plan for the next go...still sucks though, thinking of you  

Duff- Wayhey, everything done, all the    where they should be, just sit back and wait now..Easy...not!!! I think you can get mood swingy around ovulation, hormones and all that!! Wishing you all the luck in the world, hope this is your time     

Rach and Gina - If you are reading this...what fantastic bumps!!

Well, I am convinced its worked sometimes then not the other!! The normal for 2ww I guess!! 

Driving myself mad!! 

Emma x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Hi folks, just got back and caught up with your news

Nickster  so sorry that this wasn't your month, it is so unfair.  Keep your chin up and best of luck next time, the pratice must mean it will be perfect next time, and you have the timings all planned just right already .

Pem- Hope the 2WW is not sending you mad  , I really hope it works out.  We need some more bump pics to join Rachel, Alison and co !!

Duff- I really hope that it is a great "first date" and those sparks fly with the egg and  !  Glad your donor enjoyed himself in the process, and is so keen to come back!! better than way round than him saying he hated and he wasn't coming back!! I hope you have beginners luck  !!! what did you do to make it so conducive for him? - My poor donor has to contend with the magazines supplied in the clinic which he said is a deterrant!

Spangley- great to see you back posting we missed you !!
Gina, Alison and Tonia thanks for the kind messages.  

Gina I kind of hoped and in my moments of denial that it is all a mistake, and AF hasn't arrived in full flow as such so maybe it wasn't all over, but my BHCG was negative so I have no pregnancy hormones in my body.  I have booked my follow up appt at the clinic for 15th Aug so will take it from there.

I decided at the last minute and got on a plane and went to Dublin on Saturday and came back on Monday (it was a Bank Hol there) and stayed with 2 good friends, we had a relaxing weekend, eating and chatting mainly, it poured with rain the whole weekend   !!! and you in the UK had  and then the boys picked me up from the airport and I went to Brighton last night tp them.  

They had a great Pride, it was scorching hot, loads more people than anticipated, there was standing room only on the grassy bit of the park,  they had estimated 160,000 went.  They said that the downside was that the homophobic BNP were protesting and some religious groups in the park and there were some bottles thrown etc, but no major trouble. The had about 8 hours sleep from Fri to Mon.  Today we met up with another friend, had lunch in the sunshine, then we were being tourists we went along the pier ate ice cream, went on the water ride and got soaked- even bought the photo magnets of us screaming - and then won a luminous fluffly aniaml (well probably spent 10 pounds to get him)!!  It was fun though. 

Take care and lots of luck and love to you all

L x


----------



## snagglepat

*Duff*, fingers crossed that your egg and sperm were feeling frisky on their first date and got it on regardless.  Hopefully the fact that your donor enjoyed it so much will have helped with that.  You're right abut the process concept too. I can imagine it does make it so much easier to see it that way when you've not got monetary or time constraints in the same way. I'm sure we wouldn't have tried for as long as we did if we'd been going the clinic route.

Good luck!!!!!!

*JJ1*, glad you had a good weekend, despite the rain, and that the boys did too. I'm really sorry it didn't work out for you. You so deserve some good luck in this game. I hope the appointment on the 15th goes well.

*Emma*, still sending positive vibes your way.     Hae you managed to get some good distraction therapy going?

Best wishes all round,

Gina. x


----------



## duff

JJ1 - omg, the magazines at the clinic *would* be a deterent for your donor! Years ago, when we were trying with T and another friend of ours as known donor, they went off to a clinic for tests and he described the magazines as "straight euro porn". I have no idea what that means (I'd probably like it!  ) but I don't think it was conducive for gay men to perform.


----------



## Mable

Bonsoir,
Just back from extended holidays in France to say GOOD LUCK to Duff! Keeping everything crossed for beginners luck. 

Sorry to hear about the lack of luck for JJ1 and Nickster. Hope all's well with you guys.

Mable


----------



## pem

Hi all!!

Duff - how is it going The 2ww driving you nutty yet?? I have been really  really busy with work this week, too busy even too post!!!so it has gone really quickly for me which I am grateful for as I am not the best with tasks that require patience!!!! Our donor says naughty rude things also...great for 'that' atmosphere the first time!!! He is brilliant!! Lots of    your way    

JJ1 - thanks for your well wishes, pleased you had a lovely weekend and the boy's Pride sounds great, really hope you are keeping well through these crappy times.. 

Gina - thanks for your good vibes also, I am keeping myself well distracted with loads of work, been typing like mad for days now, still questioning every feeling and thing that happens though. Don't really want to raise my own hopes but I am having the same AF type pains down below as last time, have been having them for a few days and the boobs have been a little suspicious recently. It's difficult really, don't want to be negative but don;t want to raise my hopes...so I think I'll just raise my hopes, it will be just as crap if i don't! How are you keeping?? Your Bump is fab!! 

Nickster - how are you feeling?? 

Love to everyone!

Emma (convincing herself of pregnancy symptoms, that probably don't exist!!)


----------



## snagglepat

*Emma*, don't forget - you're PUPO. (Pregnant until proven otherwise.) I think it was Tonia who introduced us to that one. I never found that trying to hold back on hopefulness worked. After months of battling it I figured that if I was feeling hopeful, then I the positive mental attitude was probably helping and chose to let myself just go for it. You do risk falling harder if it doesn't work, but that tended to happen anyway, so what's the point resisting? Glad distraction therapy is working.

Symptoms sound good though. Can I be hopeful on your behalf too? 

*Duff*, I can't picture what exactly 'straight euro porn' would be, but the words have filled my head with images of a kind of kinky eurovision song contest..... Think I need to go wash. 

Big hugs all round,

Gina. x


----------



## nickster

Hey *Emma* - Sounds as though you're doing a sterling job of getting through your 2ww... only a few days to go now, right? Here's hoping your 'suspicious boobs' are a promising sign (I'll never be able to listen to Elvis's Suspicious Minds in the same way again!  )

What about you *Duff*? How are you feeling? 

*Gina * - I think the PUPO idea is excellent, and will definitely be employing that next time around.

I've had a crappy week. After our lovely weekend I hit a real low on Sunday night... completely went to pieces (though my wonderful gf quickly put me back together again). All sorts of rubbish going on at work, and I guess I've been (subconsciously) pinning my hopes on getting preggers asap so I don't have to deal with it. Silly me.

Anyway, I have a new plan which is that if we're not successful by Christmas we should take a break, I'll quit my job and go to India for a few months (my mum's Indian, and I've been meaning to spend more than a brief holiday there for ages). So then I'll have something really positive to look forward to either way. Hooray! 

J arrives on Tuesday which isn't far off now (poor love spends his entire time on aeroplanes at the moment... I hope that's not detrimental to the old  !). Plus I keep forgetting that we're getting married on the 25th - all very low-key (just immediate family) but it's still quite exciting...

Hello to everyone else!

nickster x


----------



## duff

nickster said:


> Anyway, I have a new plan which is that if we're not successful by Christmas we should take a break, I'll quit my job and go to India for a few months (my mum's Indian, and I've been meaning to spend more than a brief holiday there for ages). So then I'll have something really positive to look forward to either way. Hooray!


This is a brilliant idea, Nickster! I think it's really good to take breaks, especially if they are exciting ones.

I'm fine, it's all too early for all those twinges to be anything other than wind! I've got a weekend away coming up where there will be much drinking so I'm going to have to be very good. I'm amazed at how relaxed I am without the financial pressure of the clinic. I hadn't realised what a change it would be. Previously, at the back of my mind throughout the 2ww would be worry about how I was going to scrape together my half of the next treatment cost.


----------



## pem

Nickster - India sounds like great idea, a break would do you loads of good, still sending you lots of     fo this time!!

Duff - Twinge analysis is a very important part of the 2ww, i think I  am an expert, drive dP mad with my offerings of what litlte pain/ache i am having and how often i need to pee etc etc etc!! When do you test# I am due on on monday, so I am going to be a bad bad girl and test on sun morning   , early i know but i prefer a negative test than a AF in full flow to wake me up of a morning!! Euro porn? I have no idea, i must be such an innocent young girl  

Gina - I am so PUPO, my positivity is astounding me, i have never been so positive in my life about anything, don't know why i am so philosophical and not at all as anxious as last time. Going to Wales this avo for the weekend, test on sunday and then move on from there, whatever the result is!! However a BFN may have me in hysterics yet who knows!!

Thanks for all your support, will update you all on sunday night when I return from Wales!!!!

Emma


----------



## duff

Hey Emma - great to hear you so positive!  really best of luck and enjoy your weekend in Wales.  

I think twinge analysis would be a bit futile today seeing as I've just scoffed fish, chips and mushy peas really quickly.  and a roll and butter.  and a guerkin.  oh, and gravy.  I reckon there'll be many rumbles and twinges going on!  

I don't think I'll test.  I really hate those things.  I usually know that my period is starting just before it actually does, so I'll go with that.  It's always sad but at least with this method I can see the period starting as the beginning of the next cycle.


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Duff and Emma- Keep analysing those twinges, keep positive. 

[fly]       [/fly]
I actually found going to a clinic less stressful that home insems, maybe because the control was no longer in my hands as I felt so responsible that it didn't work for us (little did I know about the  ), and I thought it was less hassle for my donor at a clinic (not that the boys ever complained) as he could go and deposit when he was passing through London- now as a 'couple' he just has to be there on EC days but we have frozen for back-up if he is working/away etc.

Have a fantastic weekend everyone enjoy the 
L x


----------



## pem

Hi all, 

having a very crappy day, negative clearblue hpt this morning (day 25 ). No AF as yet but me thinks she is more than likely on her way, due today or early tomorrow. Feel quite despondent now, just want to know one way or the other. Keep thinking it could be too early too show, then thinking, Its simple..i am not pregnant. Do feel all kinds of things, Have sore (.)(.), All kinds of AF type pains which I've had for about a week now, horiible headaches, bl**dy constipated (sorry to share that with you), the list of my complaints is endless. Someone please cheer me up, i need to feel positive again before I really begin to Do DP's head in!!

Duff - hows it going for you me lovely...   

thanks everyone for the well wishes!!

Will be back to let you know when AF arrives!

Emma x


----------



## duff

Oh Emma.  I'm sorry you got a negative test.  I'm still keeping everything crossed for you because day 25 is pretty early really.  

We've got these bloody pigeons ttc all over our balcony and it's driving me mad.  T reckons she can stop them making nests by putting sticks in the flower pots, whereas I want to get rid of EVERYTHING on that balcony and give them no where to nest.  Anyway, I got in a grump about it which I was convinced was the start of PMT.  Oh well.


----------



## pem

Hiyah Duff, thanks for your positive thoughts but I am now 100% convinced its not our time this month, I'm  soooo sure i can feel AF on her way and I am significantly pre-menstrual. Will have a wail when AF arrives and then move onwards and upwards. Do think now though that i am clearly going ttc crazy as i was sure I had symptoms, glad i hadn't declared them to loads of people thats for sure!!

Sending you and your copulating pigeons lots of     . the pigeons need it just in case the stress of your 2ww drives you to do terrible things to them!!

Emma


----------



## duff

pem said:


> Sending you and your copulating pigeons lots of    . the pigeons need it just in case the stress of your 2ww drives you to do terrible things to them!!


Noooo!!!!! Don't give those pigeons any encouragement!

I'm being quite calm on this 2ww. I think over all the cycles I've had, I've had just about every combination of "symptom" and it's still been negative so I'm trying to just relax about it all.


----------



## pem

I have to admit..that despite being a true animal lover...i despise pigeons..there, I've said it, sorry to any pigeon lovers out there but i really don't like them. They poo in my garden, fight in my trees and annoy my chickens and they are smelly and acky. I do like wood pigeons though, the ones that make lovely noises. Maybe you should get a supersoaker and attack them...     . God, I would love to soak some pigeons right now..grrrrr!! I would recommend chickens, they don't get it on with eachother, just be cute and lovely and make reassuring noises to you!!

Emma


----------



## duff

OK, now you will think I'm totally mad but the other day the pigeons on the balcony were swearing at me.  Honestly, they were all there, ttc as they do, cooing "F*** you...F*** you.." at me.  Gloating, I reckon.


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Pem- So sorry to hear that you think that this is not your month- I really hope that you are proved wrong and it could be too early!!!

Duff - Glad to hear that you are coping ok on the 2ww. When is test day for you?

I really hope that it is both your lucky times. 

Re: Pigeons my friend lived in an old clocktower in North London- she was plagued by them on her window ledge outside her bedroom window, so she put rice out as she'd heard that if they eat it it swells in their stomachs.  Then she put broken glass out to try and prevent them landing- but to no avail.  So she eventually got the pest control man in, and he said that as they are vermin you can shoot them and didn't have to have the poison, however she didn't think that she would get away with hanging out the window over a busy road in London, with a shot gun, saying she was trying to eradicate the noisy pigeons would go down with the police or local residents!  She eventually moved house!

Take care
L xx


----------



## pem

Hiyah!!

JJ1 - thanks for the encouragement, hows things for you??

Duff - pigeons do that, just like seagulls before they nick your icecream. They make acky little pigeons though and desperate as i am for a family, a baby pigeon simply would not suffice      Hows the wait goin?? You sound very sane and normal compared to my clear insanity!!

Well, A bloody F hasn't turned up yet, just making a few adjustments to her outfit b4 she arrives me thinks!!! I am now officially going loo - la. Have had backache and a dull ache 'down there' for nigh on 48 hours constantly, actually don;t get this normally, so maybe its an extra special AF just for me. I am soooooo Negative. just preparing myself for the worst after all my positivity.

Small question from the dumbass in Stoke, if anyone out there knows...is it possible to be pregnant, have some symptoms on Day 25/26 and it not show up on a pregnancy test that detects at 25 whatevers..answers on a postcard please to 'My last glimmer of hope', Idiot Lane, Dumbass Land!!


----------



## lucky2010

Emma, I had my worst pmt symptoms ever before i got my bfp. i know some people onm here have had a -ve hpt on test day and then gone on to have a bfp. which tests are you using?

Rach x


----------



## duff

Emma - of course it is!  I realised I'm on day 24 today myself and I wouldn't be expecting my period until the start of next week.  If i was going to do a test, I guess it would be Monday.  I guess it depends on the length of your cycle and all that though, as to when you test. 

I'm alright as it goes Emma!  I'm surprising myself with my calmness actually.    ommm ommm ommm


----------



## pem

Rach, I used a Clearblue on monday (day 24/25, not the digital one the blue cross one and I have to admit                 that i dipped an internet cheapy this morning and that it is possible that there is the faintest line in the world there when you hold it up a particular way in a particular light              Now I have mananged to even amuse myself with my peestick behaviour, don;t think anybody else could see the line, it's like a mirage !!. But i am NOT convinced anyway, will have to wait and see. AF is running late now but i don't know if my cycle is as reliable after the mc anyway!! PMT symptoms..huh.. I am such a mardarse could cry at anything, not doing any more tests till thursday if AF doesn't show!!

God, I am so negative, going to stuff my face with an egg and salad wrap and some chocolate raisins!!

duff- Definitely hold out and don't test, it is sheer torture and I will never never  learn  , sending you loads of


----------



## Mable

Emma,
Just to reiterate (I've written this on another thread) that this sounds promising, 26 days is rather short and not terribly long for your body to get producing those pregnancy hormones. Sit tight, do something absorbing today to try to distract yourself from wondering and do a test in the first urine of the morning tommorrow. Otherwise you'll bankrupt yourself buying tests and drive yourself insane wondering.

That's my advice for the day! Good luck and keeping fingers crossed for you.
Mable xx


----------



## pem

Thanks so much Mable, I am going mad and I am sure getting on everyones nerves including my own!! Decided to go and help DP with work this afternoon to keep me occupied!! 

Will hopefully have good news on wed/thurs!!

Emma!!


----------



## snagglepat

*Emma*,

It sounds really, really promising to me. I had massive premenstrual symptoms before my BFP this time. I did a test on what would have been day 25 - a cheapo internet one as they were the only ones we had in - and got the faintest of faint lines that only I could see when I held it at a certain angle in a certain light whilst facing due South East and on one leg... you get the idea.    I then tested again on day 27 and got a definite but still very faint line. It was at least visible to others that time. It took until day 29 before I got good clear second lines though. If you go to my profile and check the posts I made between the 6th and 8th of Feb (cycle days 25-27) you'll see what I mean. There are lots of them - I was about as anxious as you I think. 

I reckon we might have a BFP on its way in Stoke...

*Duff*, good to hear you so calm and collected.  I'm now going to get all excited about a possible known donor double whammy on this board. If both of you are pregnant, then your babies will be due on the same day! 

Big and hopeful hugs all round,

Gina. x


----------



## nickster

> I reckon we might have a BFP on its way in Stoke...


Ooh - I do hope so!!! *Pem*... I'm keeping everything crossed here.   

*Duff * - I need to take a leaf out of your book of calmness. 

We've just got cracking on our third attempt. Think we made a bit of a botched job of it last night - none of us was in the 'mood' and just wanted it over and done with. Oh well, we've got J trapped on hurricane island now, so plenty more opportunities this week.

xxx


----------



## pem

Hi there girls

AF now two days late, clearblue digital still saying 'not pregnant' this morning, I FEEL SICK...for blinkin bloomin inks sake, I wish i knew what was going on. Thanks for all you good advice and positive thoughts, I am holding off the Tests now till saturday (if i can manage it    ) and just hoping AF doesn;t arrive in the meantime. I still have the dullache and the backache, feels like i have been due on for a week now ( don't really get 'period pains' normally anyway) and i definitely feel sick!!

Duff - you are so calm and collected, i shall take example from you in the future, dare i ask about the pigeons??

Nickster - Wow, that has come around so quick, I regularly think we've 'done it' wrong, it's part of my intrinsic worrying behaviour though!!! Make use of the man while you have him trapped!!!


----------



## duff

Hey Gina - I just read back over your posts.  It's so lovely to read them, knowing the fantastic outcome.  It's great that this site keeps them as an archive.

Pem - I have never tried one of those digital tests.  I don't know if I could stand those words coming up.  I think, why i'm so calm about this, is that if my period starts it marks the start of the next go, rather than the end of this one.  Does that sound just too hippy?  I always wanted to feel like this when we were going through the clinic but you know, the money stuff really got me down.  About now in the cycle, I'd be worried about where I was going to find my half of the next go from.  

Ooo exciting news about the pigeons!  On Monday night we were having dinner, looking out of the window and I noticed all the pigeons had gone.  We have a terrific view over the rooftops and can see from the Post Office Tower to the dome.  Anyway, no pigeons.  And there, soaring above us was a Peregrine Falcon!  I've heard that there are now several nesting pairs on tall buildings in London but hadn't seen one before.  

Nickster - yeah, it does seem to have come round quickly.  Best of luck and you know, as far as timings go, who knows really?  My sister reckons that when she got pregnant with my nephew, the only time it could have been was ridiculously early, like day 5 in her cycle.  But there you go.  Apparently the fresh stuff can live for days.


----------



## Mable

Hello all you fresh spermies! Pem I'm so sorry that horrid digital test said those words this morning. I'm like Jason, I don't use those ones. I much prefer the ones with the lines, so you can look for a faint line, keeps the hope up. Have you tried those first response type ones? Hope the positive stories on here are keeping you hopeful

I'm getting really into this fresh sperm stuff. I want some. The anonymity of clinic sperm is a definite bonus once pregnant, but whilst trying I too feel the money pressure. I can't even contemplate it not working and us having to find the money for another go. Even worse is the lack of sperm, after this IVF I've got 2 vials left at the clinic, and that's it. 

Keeping fingers crossed for Pem
Mable


----------



## snagglepat

Hey all,

*Nickster*, here's to a hopefully successful cycle for you guys.  There's an evil part of me that is picturing your poor J locked in a room being forced to 'perform' at regular intervals whilst a storm rages outside.  Hopefully the confinement will help things along. Good luck!

*Emma*, really sorry to hear you got those nasty words this morning. I'm with *Mable*. The lines are much easier. I still have all my positive pregnancy tests in a little box in the bedroom by the way - they all have lines, getting progressively stronger over a week or two. You don't get that kind of comparison option with a digital test. (Plus the line ones are cheaper - think we got about 25 for £11 online.) I'm keeping everything crossed for you.

*Duff*, I'm loving your positivity, and great news about the pigeons being scared off by the falcon. That must have been a sight to see. Rae will be jealous - she's really into birds (the feathered kind I mean), especially birds of prey. Whenever we go to stay at her parents caravan in Wales we need to stop off at the red kite centre on the way so she can watch them all flying in for their lunch. They are magnificent, I have to admit. Hopefully your pigeons won't come back in a hurry.

I love the archive feature too. I really enjoyed going back and reading my old posts too and I use the feature quite a bit to remind myself of where people are up to and how they got there.

*Mable*, the fresh sperm thing does have an awful lot going for it in terms of less stress and money. I'm so very glad we chose this route as we'd have had to give up long before now if we'd gone via a clinic (although you never know if a different method would have worked sooner). And I know the legal side of things is scary but we've got such a great donor who has done this with several others before us and stayed absolutely true to his word that we feel completely safe in our choice. Sending him an update email every 6-12 months seems like a very small price to pay for what he's done for us and we've spent exactly nothing on conceiving with him (apart from OPKs, pregnancy tests and a few metformin prescriptions) as he won't even let us give him petrol money. However, I also know we were very lucky to find someone as good as him, especially as it was through an ad on rainbow network and he was a total stranger to us initially (and we had to weed through some right weirdos to find him).

I can't imagine what it must be like to think you've only got two vials of sibling sperm left. I really do have everything crossed that this one works for you though, and you won't need to worry about that any more. I can't think of anyone that deserves a BFP more than you after the hell you've had with IVF this year. Sending big good luck hugs to you.

Good luck with keeping yourself busy *Emma*. Incidentally, my last client has just dropped my days so I'm now down to working one day a week for the last four weeks before I stop.  I'm not sure what you're doing work-wise at the moment but if you ever fancied a trip down to Brum for the day to help take your mind off things then just give us a yell.  If you didn't fancy driving you could always jump on a train and I could meet you in town for lunch, random window shopping and chicken talk. 

Big hugs all round,

Gina. x


----------



## pem

Hi all!!

Well its all over AF has arrived in vile horrible heavy painful form 2 days late. Can't help but wonder if the m'c has knocked my cycles off terribly. I've never had a cycle this long since i was 11 years old!! Never had pain or any kind of PMT before either but hey ho thats how it goes.. I am absolutely gutted and seriously miserable and feel a fool for being so positive. But we will keep on trying, P is incredibly supportive and just says well I am here whenever you need me, he is brilliant.

Thanks for all your support, you have all been brilliant as usual, won't be long before i am driving myself mad again.

Emma


----------



## snagglepat

Oh *Emma*,

Really sorry to hear it - I was feeling so positive for you too. Sounds like you're having the mother of all periods as well, which can't help.  Sending huge hugs your way.   

It's good to hear that P is so supportive though, that must help, knowing you can jump straight back into it and he's there with you whenever you need him. Do make sure you take whatever time you need to let go of what could have been this cycle if you need it though. I always found I had a little mourning to do, even if it only lasted half an hour.

Best wishes,

Gina.


----------



## Mable

Sorry to hear that Emma.


----------



## duff

Oh Emma!  I'm sorry to hear it.  

It's so mean, this ttc stuff.  That the symptoms of PMT and early pregnancy are the same is just plain cruel!  

When I was taking a break from ttc over the last few months I tried to keep a record of all the twinges, hot flushes, police dog nose, nausea, tiredness, creamy CM etc that I experienced in a non-ttc cycle and, of course, they were all there.  On the first cycle that we weren't trying, the symptoms were so strong that I started to doubt whether I'd actually had a period at all!  Anyway, the point is that you are not a fool for being positive, not in the least.


----------



## lucky2010

Bigs hugs Emma x x x x


----------



## duff

Right.  That's it.  I've got the 2ww madness.  All my calmness is out of the window.  

I just got home to find that I've a greasy, pimply face which has meant I've spent the last hour scanning the internet for any stories of anyone who ever got a BFP after having a greasy, pimply face on day 25.  And you know how it is, Google puts you on to these great long threads on American fertility message boards where one person got some spots in their 2ww, and then you have to read them all the way through to see if that person is pregnant or not..


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Emma- So sorry to hear it wasn't your lucky time hun , have you planned your next strategy, and AF being so cruel  keeping you waiting.

Duff  for you- I hope that those spots are a good sign
L x


----------



## Damelottie

So sorry Emma


----------



## nickster

Dammit *Emma * - I was so convinced this month would have a happy ending for you.  But as *Duff * says, before you know it you'll be onto the next attempt. I'm in a completely different place (positivity-wise) than I was 7 days ago. You _will _ get through it.

*Gina * - we're not quite keeping J locked in his room, though we are being rather demanding... Yesterday my gf was on call at the hospital all day/night so she had to dash back home late morning to do the deed between being in the operating theatre. No sooner were the  in than she was out the front door. All a bit carry-on.

*Duff * - you're definitely going 2ww mad.  Here's hoping that peregrine falcons and pimples are good signs!


----------



## Tonia2

I'm so sorry *Emma * -  hang in there for next time. I always find it helps to start planning the next try right away.

*Nickster * I don't think I had commiserated with you yet either -I've been away - so sorry it didn't work this time. Don't give up.

*Duff*- fingers crossed for you this month! (ps. I'm loving the changes to your profile too  )

Love to all, 
Toni


----------



## pem

Thanks lovely ladies for all your kind words and support, you are gggrrrrreeeaatt!!! I have had my temper   /cry   /sulk   /kicked things shouted it's not bluddy fair a million times, felt sorry for myself for an hour, drank a bottle of wine, talked long into the night philosophically with DP and now I'm back at em again!!!! I know that I am really lucky to have P and to be able to keep on trying wihtout having to worry about money etc so It's all positive again form here on in, unitl the end of the next 2ww that is   

I have some good news though...wait for it...drum roll..... Maggie laid an egg yesterday evening..       How fab is my chicken?  I thought well my egg might be damn useless this month but at least the girls are making an effort!!

And, I went to see the free preshow of 'Knocked Up' last night and it is soooooooo funny if you like fart/poo/fanny humour etc... which i do, a lot, so, go see it, let me know if i am a saddo. I guarantee you will laugh, even if only once!!

Duff - Don't let it get the better of you, don't be like me, keep that calmness going, not long to wait now...hehehehehehe, I know you want to punch me now for that comment, so this is for me   . But on a serious note, god I really hope you get a BFP, lots of     . I'll be thinking of you!!

Nickster - What a 'Carry On' as you say, think it's better like that, stops you stressing as much. Lots of     for you this time!!

Love to everyone, I'm off to look for more eggs and stock up on Feminax!! Will do a ridiculously long post tomorrow when i ahve been on my mass trawl through all the boards..mmmm..something to look forward too.

Thanks again for all your support..am i rambling??

Emma x


----------



## nickster

Morning *Pem*. How utterly cool about Maggie - she's clearly routing for you (as are we all)!!!

We're heading off to Devon to visit J's parents for a couple of days. We know them quite well - and it's usually a real laugh - but this is the first time we'll be seeing them in the role of potential bearers of their grandchildren. I've already had a slightly embarassing phone conversation with his mum about turkey-basters, so I'm hoping they might have calmed down a bit!

Have good weekends everyone... 

Nickyx


----------



## duff

So Pem, did you eat Maggie's egg yet, or do you have to keep it there to remind the others to lay some too?

wah!!  I hate the last part of the 2ww.  

The good thing is that, if this try doesn't work, the timing of the next one means pretty much my whole 2ww will be spent in the South of France!  Not bad, eh!


----------



## pem

Ooh duff , I'm routing for you big time    Haven't eaten the egg yet, we're waiting till we have one each, then we can have them with soldiers for our breakfast!! anyone elses mum used to give them 'soldiers' with their egg

Hope you don't have to go again Duff but if you do we will both be doing it in style!!

Nickster - Oh god, the turkey baster conversation, y'know i used to really believe that was true and wonder how and why   . My mum actually has a turkey baster, it;s very large and unweildy   

Go Duff, Go Duff, Go Duff, Go Duff!!!


----------



## Mable

Good luck Duff. The last part of the 2ww is the worst. Hope you feeling sane(ish) and hopeful. Keeping everything crossed for you.


----------



## Tonia2

Hey Duff - when do you test? How are you doing
Thinking of you
Toni


----------



## duff

awww..I'm too chicken to test!  I'm just going to wait and see what happens over the next few days.  

This morning I woke up absolutely convinced that my period was starting.  The cramps were just like I was about to bleed but..nothing.  So we shall see.


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Duff ^fingerscrossed ^ for you, I know how you feel about not wanting to test, I was a bit the same as I thought I could stay in my little bubble longer but if I tested it would be burst if a negative. But we are all in suspense with you and hoping and willing you to have a  !!!!

L xx


----------



## duff

Aw thanks but I'm pretty sure the period is on its way now.  I'm regular as the Trumpton clock, telling the time steadily and sensibly (you can tell I've just spent most of the weekend babysitting, eh!).  Always 14 days after ovulation and I reckon it's here.  Oh well!  I'm looking forward to the next 2ww which I'll spend in the South of France.  Maybe lazing around on the beach in the sun is the missing ingrediant?


----------



## Tonia2

Awww... I hope you're wrong Duff! The symptoms can feel mightily similar either way       My fingers are still crossed! 
Toni


----------



## pem

OOh, hope you're wrong Duff!!!  Keep us posted, good or bad we'll be here to cheer you on!!


Emma!!


----------



## duff

It's definitely here.  Oh well!  Onto the next go.  I'm going to do a half tablet of Clomid for this next attempt.  It feels a bit naughty to be self-medicating, but I have a prescription left and never got more than 2 follicles on half a tablet on all the previous cycles at the clinic.  

I might also go and sort out that extreme accupuncture that I've been putting off for months  .


----------



## pem

Oh Duff, how completely crap for you  , like Nickster says though. it will all come round again before you know it and you will be sunning yourself in the South of France for the next one. I empathise with how you're probably feeling right now, find somethign  to kick and give it a good bootin, always seems to help me.

Your peestick partner!!

Emma


----------



## Mable

Sorry to hear that it didn't work this time Duff and Tracey. Good idea to go with the clomid. I took 1 tablet for 5 days from day 2 of my cycle. Made me produce 2 follicles instead of the 1, with lots of twinging. Hope it works for you.


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Oh Duff- so sorry that it didn't work this timep , I can't help you with  clomid as I had 5 days of clomid and maximum dose of stims and still only produced 3 follicles !!

Let's hope it works for you and pem next month.
take care
L x


----------



## nickster

*Duff * - that's crummy... I'm really sorry. I think you might be right about the sun though. In face, if you and *Pem * get positive results on your travels, reckon I'll have a strong case for a late summer holiday! 

I'm doing OK on my 2ww so far (only four days in mind, so it's not much of a claim!). Busy, busy week ahead preparing for our families to descend on the island for our civil partnership this Saturday. I'm just hoping that the promised heatwave will materialise, so we can get out of our glad rags and head to the beach! And the following weekend we're moving house - to the New Forest. It's all go, hey?!

xxx


----------



## pem

Nickster - lots of     for them     making their journeys !!!! Hope that egg is fertilised and bouncing it's way down as I type!!!


----------



## snagglepat

*Duff*, sorry to hear it wasn't to be this time, but like you say, the thought of sunning yourself in the South of France for the next one has definite appeal!  Sending tons of positive wishes to you and T, and good luck with the clomid. x

*Nickster* - if you even get a spare moment to think about the 2ww with all that you've got going on I'll be really surprised. I'll keep my fingers crossed for good weather for you for the weekend. Can't wait to hear how it goes!

Gina. x


----------



## pem

Nickster - Hows that 2ww goin?? Are you excited about your civil partnership this weekend, you are going to have fantastic weather, how brilliant, hope you have a lovely time!!      

Duff- u ok me old matey?? Here, have a    and howabout a   as well and a  few    for good measure !! When you going to France, where are u going?? Is it for sunbathing etc or drinking wine and seeign chateaus I am so nosey..sorry!!

Start the peeing on a stick on Saturday - how crap, I hate them, going to buy some smiley face clearblue ones on the girls advice!! Hopefully should start insems on monday, babymaking thoughts start here!!

God, I love this weather, the peak district will feel the fall of my boots and the spin of my bike tyres this weekend, get meself some cracking tan lines for when i go on holis next week!!

Emma x


----------



## nickster

Hello *pem * - Kinda excited, though it's all very low-key... just immediate family, no vows (though we have succumbed to rings), BBQ in the garden - you get the picture. In a bit of a dilemma about how much bubbly I should drink, what with it being bang-smack in the middle of my 2ww!

My gf's mum & partner will be the first to arrive, in a couple of hours (from the south of France as coincidence would have it!). Handily my gf is on call tonight - typical! Shouldn't complain as I've barely thought about my womb this time around. I've got much more of a laissez-faire attitude for some reason. Can't believe you're already onto the next attempt. The months are flying by!

Right... off to finish making the bunting (possibly a mistake, but I've started now!) 

xxx


----------



## pem

Hey Nickster - How did the CP go, you are a married woman now!! How does it feel?? Your day sounded like it was to be lovely!! Laissez Faire is definitely the way to go!! lots of     to you!!

Well, we had our first go again last night, got a 'smiley face' on the old clearblue yesterday, so today and tomorrow to go, then its waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting!!

U ok Duff

Emma


----------



## snagglepat

Good luck *Emma*! Go little swimmers, go!    

Gina. x


----------



## nickster

Our CP / celebrations were great thanks... the sun shone on us all weekend and it was exactly as we'd wanted (i.e. out of glad rags and into bikinis by midday on Saturday !). Our families seemed to get on well, and J was there too which was wonderful (just hope he didn't get too much of an interrogation when we weren't looking!). Feel pretty much the same as before, surprise surprise!

Can I run something by you guys? I had the teeniest bit of reddish/brownish bleeding today (11dpo, I think). Period's not due until Friday (or Thursday at the absolute earliest) and I don't have any other signs (e.g. backache). Obviously I'm really really hoping it might be implantation bleeding, but equally trying not to get hopes up. Any thoughts? 

At work, so I'd best go. Absolutely best of luck *Emma * - sounds as though you've timed it to perfection. 

Nickyx


----------



## snagglepat

Hi Nicky,

Really glad your CP went well. We had ours in December. I think bikinis were the last thing on our minds!  

As for the bleed, it certainly could be implantation. I had some pinkish spotting at around 12 dpo and wouldn't you know I got a BFP the next day.  But as with all these things, and particularly with Tonia's experience this cycle, you really can't count your chickens before they've hatched. I reckon it's a definite very positive sign though. Wouldn't that be great? Knowing that while you were having your CP a little miracle was going on inside you too.  (We got pregnant the first try after our CP - we reckon we're just having a baby with a particularly picky moral code  )

Good luck! Not long to go until you know for sure. 

Gina. x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Nicky- Congratulations on your CP, and  you have something else to celebrate soon!

Pem- Best of Luck with the insems and the dreaded 2WW- I found home insems so stressful, as I felt so responsible for co-ordinating it all and then having to tell the boys the disappointing news each month, whereas at the clinic it is the opposite you are so passive and have no control in much!!

Duff are you guys doing insems this month as well?  

Take care
L xx


----------



## pem

ooh Nickster I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!!!! Your CP sounds like it was wonderful and just how you wanted it, I love being a 'married' woman, its amazing to be able to be finally 'together' in that way, we waited a long 7 years to be able to tie the knot and I am so glad we waited and didn't go to somewhere else to do it. Having family and friends there was fab!! I feel all soppy and gooey just thinking bout it..i can hear you all chuckin up now     

JJ - the timing is a complete nightmare, I spend days 10 and 11 thinking what if i've missed it, days 12, 13, 14, 15 prodding for mucus and worrying if  all the     have gone where they should and then another 14 days analysing every twinge possible....      . Ah, what will be, will be and all that. I have a particular issue with magpies You know the one for sorrow, two for joy, three for a girl and four for a boy, I try and avoid looking at them in case I see one on it's own and then if i do I have to say good morning to it. It is the only superstitiuos thing that freaks me out!! Anybody else like that??

Gina - Hmmm, that bubs definitely has a moral code, probably have perfect timekeeping then as well and pop out on your due date in a most calm and dignified fashion!!


----------



## ameliacooper

Hi Emma

Just out of interest.  I hope you don't mind me gatecrashing your post ... I too am using a known donor.  How many times do you ineminate and on what days.  I am using a clearblue fertility monitor and have been doing it on both peak days.  I wonder if this is enough - or even if it is too much for donor to be 'doing it' on consecutive days. 

I'm only just about to start cycle 5.


----------



## snagglepat

Hi Amelia,

Sorry to jump in but we had a really great discussion about this on the first two or three pages of this thread. If you don't mind reading back you'll hopefully find out some interesting things about the various different ways we've tackled getting the timing right with a known donor.

For the record, we aimed to inseminate the day before and the day of ovulation - so usually two consecutive days, but if timings didn't work out we'd sometimes go a day earlier or later. We inseminated the day before and the day of ovulation the month we conceived, which I guess would have been the two peak days if monitoring the way you're doing, or possibly a day later, but we used mucus and my own twinges as a guide rather than a fertility monitor as my readings for testing LH have never been very clear.

Good luck!

Gina. x


----------



## pem

Hi Amelia!!

My reckoning would say you are doing exactly the right thing, One of the girls on this board used a clearblue fertility monitor on the 'peak days', only twice I think and she is now pregnant first time tried!! Our own experiences have varied on the time I actually got pregnant (bless her little soul) we inseminated three times, on day 12, 14 and 15. I think i ovulate on day 14, get a 'smiley face' on the opk on the afternoon of day 13, so i think the day 15 insemination is really an insurance 'go' incase i ovulate 36 hours after the opk. this time around we have done it on days 13,14 and 15 as P couldn't make it on day 12. Don't know if that is wrong, too many times too close together or not?? Any advice here Gina Doesn't appear to affect P in any way though, amount etc  tmi   . Our Donor, P is brilliant, very flexible and happy to go with whatever. Like Gina, i also check my cervical mucus etc and I appear to be 'fertile' from day 12 through 15..

Hope you enjoy reading back through this thread and you find it all helpful.

Good luck for this cycle, its last day of insems for me today!!

Emma


----------



## snagglepat

*Pem*, apparently the frequency of how often the donor 'donates' shouldn't make much difference. Our donor did some research on this after being asked to 'refrain' for three days prior to his sperm count test and came to the conclusion that the only thing that makes a difference is _not_ ejaculating for a week or more prior to donating. This seems to make the sperm weaker apparently.

I have to admit though, once he came to us to donate and he'd donated to another couple earlier that day. I'm sure it made very little difference in reality but I did feel a little 'short changed' that day. Once a day should be perfectly fine, AFAIK. 

Gina.


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

I know when clinics are using sperm or doing SA they ask them not to have ejaculated for 48-72 hours, but if it is over that then there can be debris and dead/dying sperm in there as well.  

When we were doing home insems we did the day the monitor showed an LH surge and for 3 days each month.

Best of luck
L x


----------



## nickster

We're doing the day of the LH surge and day after - and if poss the day either side. J's a bit worn out by the end of it all (as am I!), but we really want to maximise our chances...

Does anyone have any theories on whether time of day makes a difference? We did evenings for the first two cycles, but mornings this time around - mainly dictated by gf's work commitments and our travel plans.

Still no sign of AF here (due tomorrow - so might sneak in my first test then...), although I've been struck down by a really nasty tummy bug.  In fact, think I might retreat to bed...

xxx


----------



## duff

snagglepat said:


> I have to admit though, once he came to us to donate and he'd donated to another couple earlier that day. I'm sure it made very little difference in reality but I did feel a little 'short changed' that day.


Gina - I would have felt the same way!

T was under the impression that our donor had to wait 2 days so it's been good to read all of this. I bet our donor will be pleased to not have to abstain for two days as well. personally, I would find that really hard if it was me. Just the idea of not being allowed to would make me want to, if you see what I mean.

Well we're all set to go again at the start of next week. I'm really excited about this cycle. well, I'm excited about my holiday taking up most of the 2ww. If it doesn't work, I've still got a few days left to enjoy some of the fine wines of France. And, probably best of all, I won't be googling all the time!


----------



## pem

Duff - good to hear from you, you always want what you can't have don't you..!! I'm reassured by all this chat too!! I'm begginning the paranoia already!! Loads of luck to you for this cycle     and enjoy your holi's  Let's hope you don't get to enjoy those fine wines!!

Nickster -          Hope that tummy bug is better, don't really think that evenings/mornings makes a lot of difference, its all a bit hit and miss really without the use of a super fantastic follicle tracking machine at home!! Good luck for tomorrow if you do decide to test!!

Gina - Think I too would have felt a bit short-changed   

Lots of     to all of us!!

Emma


----------



## lucky2010

*NIckster*, hope you're feeling better and good luck for tomorrow. We did one donation in the afternoon one day and one in the morning the following day (day of LH surge) and got our BFP.

Em and Duff have good holidays.

Good luck everyone x


----------



## snagglepat

*Nickster*, there are many crossed fingers for you here!  Hope you feel better soon.

And good luck to you too *Duff* - I love the idea of spending the 2ww on holiday. We did that one year but we were at Center Parcs and had splashed out on a villa with a sauna - which of course you're not supposed to use if your pg. Bad panning there on our part. Sending you tons of positive vibes.

As for the time of day, we always did it last thing at night so that whichever of us was being inseminated could stay lying down for as long as possible - all through the night. Once or twice we did it at other times. I'e no idea if this made a difference or not. It did work eventually, though it took a while.

Gina. x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Nickster  for your testing!!!
L x


----------



## magsandemma

Hi all

Pem  -  Thanks, bump growing daily, hope you are doing ok on the 2ww, sending lots of      !

Nickster  -  Hope that tummy bug disappears soon, and Good Luck with testing      .

Maggie
x


----------



## duff

Best of luck Nickster!


----------



## nickster

Sleepless night, grumbling belly, no period, but a BFN this morning... Don't really know what to think, but trying to stay positive 

Keep sending the good vibes my way!


----------



## pem

Nickster - still sending you them     

Duff - enjoy your holidays and loadsa luck to you for this month!!   

I'm off on holis early in the morning, so will have news when i get back, wish me a BFP!!!

Emma


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Pem have a fab time and hopefully you come back with a little excess baggage inside!!
L x


----------



## lucky2010

yeah, have a great hol Em, everything is crossed for you x


----------



## nickster

Bad news folks. My period arrived in the night, so it's back to square one for us.  Trying not to feel too down about it as I know it's still early days. Still puzzled about my mini-bleed on Tuesday though - never had that before. 

We were going to take a month off after three attempts, but I'm trying to persuade J to change his mind. We'll actually be at a music festival in Wiltshire, so might end up doing the shenanigans in a tent! Worth it for comedy value alone I reckon. 

Wish I could be going on holiday with Pem and/or Duff... have a great time guys! And let's hope the sunshine brings on a BFP for you both. 

xxx


----------



## Tonia2

So sorry to hear of your bfn, Nicky   
...onward and upward!! 

Ttc at a music festival sounds like a fantastic idea!  Heh heh... What fun!    Imagine the stories you could tell your child if it worked! Good luck with convincing J      
x Tonia


----------



## duff

Hello all!

I'm on day 15 or so, waiting for one of the wee tests that Tracey has set up for me to show that I'm ovulating.  Should be any day now.  Honestly, each morning I have to do the Krypton Factor thing of assembling a digital clear blue and a persona test before I can even have my morning wee!  

I had some extreme accupuncture this lunchtime.  She put a needle between my front teeth!!!    and one in my perineum!!!!


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Oh my gosh Duff teeth and perineum - didn't ?Gina also have that spot accupunctured and then got her BFP!! My man does nothing like that but I don't think I'll enquire about!

Nicky - I also think the festival conception sounds great- you'll have to think up an appropriate name to reflect it- like Brookly Beckham was conceived there!!

I had my FSH done on Monday and it was 6.7 so I was delighted the lowest in over a year.  I'm having my immune bloods done on Thursday and then scan on 11th, and maybe hysteroscopy later in the month.  Hopefullly I can cycle for real in Oct and without  Humeria or IVIG!

Best of luck
L X


----------



## duff

waaahay JJ1 - great news about the FSH!  Good for you.  What's a hysteroscopy?

We did the deed last night which all went well.  This morning all the gadgets said ovulation was coming, so we're going to have the man in this evening and perhaps tomorrow as well.


----------



## nickster

Festival plan's out sadly - too much hassle for J to get over here. Plus his dates for October aren't looking promising, so I'm feeling a bit despondent about it all. Not helped by being absolutely shattered after moving house. Sorry... self-pity moment over! 

Sounds as though it's all going to plan *Duff*... bet you can't wait for your 2ww/holiday to start!

Nickyx


----------



## Tonia2

Good luck for the new 2ww Duff!  OMG! your extreme acupuncture had me squirming... That reminds me- I had acupunture one cycle ago, but gave up in disgust after he told me he was positively sure I'd get pregnant, and didn't (stupid man...) but I should get myself back there. It helps me feel more relaxed, if nothing else... have a fantastic holiday and 2ww... hopefully the holiday is what does it!  
Pem  - how are you doing? You must be on the last stretch of the 2ww?? any twinges? Are you ok?   

Nicky  - so sorry to hear things aren't going ahead this month. I just ovulated this last week and having no treatment I found myself having wild thoughts about trying to and go pick some bloke up at the pub... . Didn't, but it seems such a waste of a cycle....  Hang in there, hun.  I hope you start to feel better soon, in your new place. 

How are you doing JJ? I'm having immune bloods done again too - just to see if there is more going on. They've all previously been negative. Good news re. the FSH. I hope it all comes together well for October. 

Love Tonia
x


----------



## nickster

> I just ovulated this last week and having no treatment I found myself having wild thoughts about trying to and go pick some bloke up at the pub...


*Tonia * - you crazy cat! Good job Bron's coming home soon, otherwise goodness knows what you'd get up to! 

I'm trying to be philosophical about missing this month. I know that in the big scheme of things it makes no difference at all... So I'm concentrating on enjoying myself to the max (apologies in advance if that means I'm a little less active on the boards for the next few weeks).

When are you off on hols *Duff*? I'm mighty envious...

Nickyx


----------



## MG

Duff- best of luck for the 2ww    . I just had my IUI today and hopefully this month is the month that we finally get our bfps!

Nicky- you enjoy yourself! 

Tonia- ovulation does do funny things to us doesn't it!   It may be worth getting immune tests done again just to put your mind at rest. Results can change over time. With my blood clotting factor results it was only a little abnormally high the first test, next month it was just normal, the following month it was the highest of the three tests.   

Melissa xx


----------



## Tonia2

Ah hem...contrary to what I may have implied, picking up blokes at the pub isn't actually in my repertoire of life skills... Fortunately (or unfortunatley??) I have no idea how I'd go about it... though I'm told on good authority that it's not that difficult to do.    Ah, well...

Pem -  where are you Are you testing about now Are you ok


Toni


----------



## pem

Hi all!!

Well, I am back from my holiday and I do have a little excess baggage!!! Yeh a   !!!!!

Duff and MG !!! - Good luck for this month, hopefully Duff the holiday magic will work for you, if not that the perineum needle will!!!!!

Tonia2 - Stay away from them blokes at the pub!!!    

Nickster - Hope you're feeling better after your move, you enjoy yourself to the max!!

We're off to see the daddy now!!!

Love to everyone and loadsa     

Emma


----------



## Tonia2

Oh my lord, you lucky duck!! Congratulations Emma!!! Well done!!! Tell us the story - when you tested, symptoms etc!!!


----------



## nickster

*Emma * - That's amazing news. HOORAY!!!! I'm soooooo happy for you. You must be on cloud 9.     

Want to hear all about it - and your cruise!   

Nickyx


----------



## pem

Hi girls,

Thanks for your congrats, I am still a bit 'freaked out' really, got a BFN whilst on holiday still, tested on day 25, then tested agin last night when i got home cus i had been feeling really weird, dizzy and spaced out and AF had not arrived and it was a BFP!! Confirmed again this morning!! I am really excited but a little nervous about the next 8 weeks.. I had no symptoms before sunday, feel really dizzy now though and feel like i am swaying, also have the obligatory sore boobs starting. Nothing else though yet!

The cruise was great, did loads of exciting things and soaked up the sun, eat far to much, i am a big fat pig now!! Went on a jeep safari in Jamaica and hiked through the jungle in Mexico, weather was fab, shame you have to come home really!!

Love to everyone, I feel really dizzy...is this normal??


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Oh Wow Emma- so pleased for you both, you must be so excited.  Wishing you a happy and healthy pregnancy

         

L xx


----------



## ameliacooper

Hi Emma

That is amazing and the second pregnancy through DI through a known donor in two days!!!! How exciting!

I'm also going through DI and would love to know what/if anything you did differently this month - but I know much is down to luck.

How amazing and huge good wishes
Axx


----------



## pem

Hi amelia, 

The only thing that i did differently this month from any other time is worry less!!! As i was on holiday in the carribean, I didn;t think it about as much at all. Not sure if that had any impact though, like you say it is all down to luck and we can't go on holiday for every 2ww!!

Wishing you loadsa luck with your DI     

Emma


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Duff how are you are you TTC this month?  

Once again huge congratulations to Pem
L x


----------



## duff

Hello!

HUGE congratulations Emma!  

No such luck for me though.  I felt really sure this time too, period was late and there were all sorts of little signs.  Oh well!


----------



## nickster

Oh *Duff * - that's a complete bummer... I was hoping that foreign jaunts would do it for both you and Emma. Did you have a good holiday though? x


----------



## Alison0702

Hello *Duff* matey 

Sorry to hear no luck this time  Hope you and T are ok. Thinking of you both


----------



## pem

Hiyah Duff, what a complete pile of poo, how was the holiday though?? Hoping you are ok, it is so bl**dy hard this rollercoaster..

Nickster - how are you doing


----------



## snagglepat

Oh *Duff*, really sorry to hear that.

Are you managing to stay positive about it though? I know up to now you've felt that this low pressure known donor route made the process seem easier. Is that still the case? Sending many positive thoughts to you and T.

Gina. x


----------



## lucky2010

Big hugs Duff, sorry to hear your news x x x


----------



## duff

Aww thanks for the commiserations you lot.  It felt really good this month too.  My period was a couple of days late and everything seemed really promising.  Tracey and I were on a walk through a forest in France to this special chapel that is supposed to help people get pregnant.  I'm not even a Catholic but thought it can't do any harm.  Anyway, we went to the chapel and there are all these placards outside from people thanking the Virgin Mary for various children.  I popped into the toilet and there's my period.  What timing!  

It was a fantastic holiday despite that though.  Really relaxing.  

Gina - I do still think this route is low pressure compared to what we were doing at the clinic.  I'm going to see my GP in the next week or so to talk about maybe having some clomid again if nothing has happened in another couple of tries.


----------



## starrysky

Sorry to hear that Duff.

I hope the Virgin Mary is sending you yours next time   in exchange for your visit.

Love

Heather


----------



## nickster

Mini-'crisis' here... J sent a rather terse email yesterday saying he can't cope with the travel any more, and wants to go down the clinic route. DP's working night shifts this week, so we barely got to speak about it - though she's being much calmer and more reasonable than me (as usual!).

Of course, we knew it might happen eventually - but were hoping for a decent number of tries (6 plus?) before we turned to a clinic, not least because of the cost implications, but also because I don't like the idea of medicalising the process if I can help it (ironic seeing as DP's a doctor). Anyway, it seems that's not to be... 

To be honest with you, it was the tone of J's email that upset me most. He said he wasn't prepared to 'bend over backwards' for us (when in fact, most of his recent travel has been work / family-related). It's also made me get a bit nervous about the whole co-parenting thing, although I suspect he was just being a bit thoughtless.

Anyway, we'll see him in 10 days or so for our fourth attempt... hoping we're either extremely lucky then or can convince him to have another couple of goes. We'll see...

Nickyx


----------



## snagglepat

Hi Nicky,

I'm really sorry to hear that J is instigating a change of plan earlier than you'd hoped. As someone who ended up conceiving after many, many tries at home and still managing to avoid the full clinic route (though I did end up with some NHS support for PCOS) I can only imagine how this must make you feel. When we'd considered it it always felt like such a massive step. Hopefully you will be able to convince J to try a couple more times. I can't remember but has J had a sperm count test? We tried for several months with our first donor (who was going to be more involved than the guy we're with now) before he did and it turned out he was at the lower end of average - still in theory OK, but we knew it might take longer as a result. This kind of information might help you make a more informed choice about it all if you don't have it already.

It's so difficult to communicate well by email sometimes. When you don't have the sense of body language, tone and expression, comments that are meant as very general or even as a joke can do a lot of unintended damage. Although, given that you're looking at co-parenting, it does seem a little strange that he's talking about 'bending over backwards' for you. Surely he's doing this just as much for himself? Will you have some time with him for some good lengthy conversations about all of this when you see him? There might be something else going on for him in here that he hasn't mentioned...

It's tough when these relationships hit rough patches. We had to do an awful lot of soul searching when our relationship with our first donor began to evolve into something that we didn't feel we could pursue any more. In our case, he got a new partner, and the relationship grew serious quite quickly, and we simply didn't get on with (her several racist comments on our first meeting didn't help). The thought of having her in our/our child's life as part of our close family and of course, trusting her as well as him on the safe sex front meant we just couldn't continue. She clearly didn't like the fact that he was trying to make a baby with someone else either. The thought of losing the 'perfect family' dream we'd been focusing on for so long was hard. Even harder was the thought of losing our donor, and suddenly finding ourselves without sperm. But we got through it. Even though he's no longer our donor he's still going to be a part of this child's life, which is lovely. (He's no longer with that partner either.)

I know this is nothing like your situation, but I wanted to let you know that change and potential clashes with donors/co-parents can be resolved, though the journey can be tough, and that I feel for where you are now. 

Good luck with it!

Gina. x


----------



## pem

Hi Nicky,

How horrible for you, these situations can be so fragile can't they. I can't say I empathise with you in that we have been put in this situation but i can understand in that is a fear of mine that we would have trouble. Like Gina's situation, our D went into a new relationship whilst in the middle of everything with us and It sent me into a complete spin, worrrying about everything, the whole thing is so sensitive and difficult to be rational about, all you have in your mind is the end result and the ups and downs along the way are just hell to deal with.

Also, emails/texts etc are notoriously commonly misunderstood, you lose the tone and feeling behind the communication, I often think something I have written on here s may sound nothing like I wanted it to and worry it may be taken the wrong way, I hope that primarily you don't need any more trys after this one (Come on BFP!!!!!) bu that you can talk to J at length about all of this and discover what is really going on, maybe he is going through some of the dissapointment and upset that we all go through ttc, I think we can forget sometimes that they too have the same wishes and hopes as we do, for us and for them.

Really hoping you get resolution to how you are feeling and soon. Bring on that BFP!

Emma


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Hi Nicky

So sorry to hear that your donor is finding it hard, and I guess the distance doesn't help. We live London - Brighton which isn't far really and was fine when it fell over a weekend, but midweek it was 3 consecutive nights commuting there and back in a evening after 8 pm after a long day at work, get there have dinner, do the deed and then home and getting in at 0130 each morning which was tiring! Or when he was on nights  he would leave it there with his partner I would drive/train down and have to get there within an hour to use it.

I do think that sometimes no matter how much we try and prepare and our donors they don't always anticipate the commitment required - there are some girls on the single girls thread who have also had these blips and some have worked them through and others changed.  I do know that I am so lucky and am truly blessed by the support and commitment from my donor and his partner.  I did give the boys all my books- Lisa Saffron's and everything I had on home insem, donors etc, a subscription to D'arcy Laine Foundation, ordered all their back copies of their newsletters about donors, Lisa Saffron also does workshops and telephone counselling-  but the one I booked into a few years ago was cancelled! There are donor specimen agreements as well where you can both outline the commitment you expect and they want to give so  the sample one says things like they will make themselves available for 6 months x amount of days each month and when you need them, plus the abstinence so you get the best chance in a sample. We didn't sign one but did discuss.

I started TTC with home insems and then we turned to the clinic route, and to be fair I found the clinic route less stressful than home insem- but then it turned out if I was to stay with my donor I had no option of medical intervention as he had a low sperm count so ICSI was the preferred/only option. And I chose him above others for the personal characteristics etc that still stand just need a different way. I would also say that if you go to a clinic and are up front and honest and say that he is your known donor you will need to use frozen sperm, and it will be frozen for 6 months before use.  I guess why I felt this was less stressful was because he could go and deposit as and when it was convenient for him to donate at the clinic and I could go for appts - in fact you are both treated totally separately. If you go as convincing partners you won't wait or use frozen sperm - PM me and I can share my experiences of both with with you. There is also the costs aspect , and how you work this out if you are going to co-parent, it is easy for us and I have probably spent about 30K so far on 3 cycles of ICSI and everything that goes with TTC.

I also think a face to face chat is so much better, and if you are to co-parent then it is vital that you all get it right before conception.  Like the others have said you don't know if there is something else going on in J's life that is causing stress and anxiety, and you are friends first and foremost so an email is a very impersonal way to address you friend of such a decision at least a phone call as he is abroad would have been better to share his feelings and enter into a discussion.  

I really hope that you can find a way to get things sorted and move forward.

pem- hope your pregnancy is going well

Gina- No long now wishing you loads of luck for the imminent birth.

Duff- really hope that the spiritual  visit brings you some luck.

As for me, I had a hysteroscopy on my monitored cycle, I have had thin lining problems for last 2 cycles and needed Viagra (sourced some Viagra suppositories from a USA clinic which was a feat, but they are supposed to be more effective but not availbale in UK). The hysteroscopy found that I have adhesions, no healthy endometrium lining probably effected/caused by ERPC in Dec and previous hysteroscopy/D&C and biopsy in May ( I think Asherman's syndrome but will wait for a label when I see the Dr although the symptoms fit) they said that I  need some hysteroscopic surgery and going for a consultation which the surgeon they recommended on Tues, as clinic said that there is no point in cycling again until it is sorted as I will not be able to impant.  There is always something set to challenge us.......

Have a great weekend
L x


----------



## nickster

Hello

Thanks for all the supportive messages. Clearly we're not the only ones to go through this kind of turmoil! 

Of course, we knew this might happen sooner or later... none of us imagined it would be easy for J to juggle his various commitments / deal with the stress of flying halfway round the world every month. And I genuinely don't think this changes anything in terms of our future plans to co-parent. It's just that we have different views on the best way to get there! 

For J, the clinic is the easy option (although I'm not sure he realises how many appointments he'll need to attend to start with). For us, a home conception is by far and away more preferable on so many levels: not only the medicalisation and the cost, but also because it introduces a 6+ month delay. 

Anyway, he'll be here in a week and we can talk things through properly then (JJ - you're right, emails are a terrible way to communicate; we've accepted that they're sometimes necessary, but there's still a way to be diplomatic in writing!). We hope to convince him that even if we initiate things with a clinic, we should continue to try 'naturally' when we get the opportunity. 

I'll let you know how it all pans out...!

Nickyx


----------



## duff

Oh Nicky I really hope you can sort it out.  It's so hard.  We had a massive blip with our fella right at the beginning due to a misunderstanding.  I ended up practically crying down the phone at him.  

well, I've had a pleasant surprise today.  I'm going away for the weekend, which would be days 16/17 when I normally ovulate.  We were all set to do it on the Thursday night before I go, which would have been way to early, and just hope for the best.  And then, out of the blue, here is my LH surge on day 12!  

I wonder if it has anything to do with the Chinese herbs my accupuncturist has me on?  They are specifically for the early part of the cycle.  I've had tender moobs ( )for the last few days and have felt like I used to on Clomid.  A real oestrogen feeling.  Anyway, I'm really pleased that we can give it a proper go this time afterall.


----------



## pem

Duff - loads and loads of luck for this cycle, that oestrogen feeling has to be a good thing    

Nickster - hope you get things sorted with j  

Emma


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Duff - I really hope that this is your lucky time.

Pem- Amazing to see your scan picture!

Nickster I hope that you get things sorted.

L x


----------



## duff

Hmm.  Well this is strange.  The Persona machine gave me the ovulation symbol today as well.  Apparently this can happen but it hasn't happened to me before.  We'll try again this evening then!


----------



## Mable

Keep at it Duff, for as long as your fella is able. Good luck this time


----------



## nickster

Yep - good luck Duff...    

Maybe I should borrow some of those herbs of yours. All being well we'll be giving it another whirl next week (although our man's also being a bit tricky about this now - arghhh!). 

xxx


----------



## duff

Thanks Nickster and Mable.  

We really are very lucky with our fella.  I didn't get the ovulate symbol today and apparently getting it two days in a row is quite common so I'm reassured that there's nothing new to worry about!  

T has this thing where she says I shouldn't have a bath the morning following inseminsation.  I know.  It's totally illogical.  Anyway, I humour her and don't have a bath until the next evening.  I was at the gym after work yesterday and felt very whiffy down there.  It's quite distrinctive isn't it?


----------



## snagglepat

Oh* Duff*, I remember that smell so well. It always felt ever so alien to wake in the morning after an insem and realise on lifting the covers that I had that lovely aroma of 'eau de donor'. Even when I had male partners in the past I never had sex without a condom so for me it really is an insemination smell over anything else.

I'm with T on the bath thing though. I always felt fine with a shower but given I knew the sperm could be alive up there for a few days and would be killed off with contact with water I generally wouldn't bath for a good few days after inseminating, just in case.

I'm pleased to hear you got some good clear ovulation signs and that the timing worked out well. Fingers crossed for you! If it gives you a boost, the cycle we conceived on was my shortest ever - I ovulated on day 14 as opposed to my normal 18-21. 

Best wishes to everyone else too,

Gina. x


----------



## Mable

I've got a really good feeling about this one Duff   
(no pressure though..)


----------



## duff

Mable said:


> I've got a really good feeling about this one Duff
> (no pressure though..)


Mable, I have a good feeling about every cycle! This one is going to be good though because I have so many distractions in the 2ww. This weekend I'm off to Serbia and then the following weekend off to a dinner in Bristol.

Gina - I don't want to be too graphic but really, when I was at the gym last night I was thinking that the people next to me on the exercise bikes must have been able to smell it too! I wonder what they thought?  Talk about ovulation signs though, really I've never known anything like it! I stretched some mucus at least 3 foot! I'm putting it down to these Chinese herbs.


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Duff I wouldn't worry too much about it- I loved the way someone on here (maybe Gina!!) described it as smelling of 'boy'
I remember thinking the same thing about the scent.  I wouldn't worry too much like being at the gym, we're surrounded by women who have had sex before work etc and we don't here comments about the aroma- I think we are just paranoid!
Good luck for this cycle
L x


----------



## nickster

Have a great weekend away Duff - just what you need to take your mind off THE WAIT!

I've got a bit of a cold at the mo, so hopefully won't be subjected to that boy-smell this time around (assuming we go ahead - I've posted the latest on our saga under the IUI thread). Can't say I've noticed it too much, although my partner complains every time! 

*JJ* - I've been so caught up in my nonsense that I didn't ask how your appointment with the consultant went on Tuesday. I hope they had some answers for you...

Nickyx


----------



## magsandemma

Hi all

Duff  -       lots of PMA for your 2ww, had a giggle about the boy smell, and with all the other smells at the gym I shouldnt worry about it,    , good that you have trips planned to take your mind off the 2ww!!  Good Luck

Nickster  -  Hoping this month is the month for you guys, this weather is horrid.  Lots of PMA!!        

Hope everyone else is well, take it easy.

Maggie
xx


----------



## Valhalla

Any news on Rach and Julie?


----------



## duff

Hmm.  Here's a funny thing that happened.  So I'm in Belgrade at the weekend and I got this period pain.  Really, it was just like my period was starting.  And then my left ovary starting throbbing.  It hurt so much that I couldn't sleep (this was day 4 and 5dpo, by the way) over the next day or so it settled back down and now I can't feel anything at all.  

I suppose it could be down to the herbs I'm on, as I seem to react extra strongly to anything that stimulates oestrogen.  Of course I've been googling for anyone who's had bad cramps and twinges on day 4 and 5 and gone on to get a BFP... 

Yes, I've got the 2ww madness!


----------



## Mable

Did you find any Jason, after your googling? It sounds familiar to me, after all my 2ww symptom searching over the summer.... so much so that people thought they had ectopic pregnancies but they didn't they were just preggers.

Oh REALLY hope so!!!


----------



## duff

Hiya Mable,

Well, after googling some more, it seems that I was having ovulation pain.  I suppose that's why people with BFPs might report some pain around 4dpo or so, because they would have definitely ovulated.  It says on one website that the pain can be mistaken for appendicitis.  I must say, I was pretty scared about it at the time, not least the prospect of trying to explain my medical history in a Serbian hospital!

So I would say it's not a sign of anything except that I ovulated.  Which is a good thing, of course.


----------



## Mable

Oh well, that's still good and hopefully you'll get there with your stamina and determination.


----------



## pem

Duff - just a quick reply. i have had that pain you mention on several occasions, hope its a good sign, lots of     for this go!

Nickster - loadsa     to you too!!


----------



## nickster

OK - am officially on the 2ww countdown, and already have google mania. Usual story of being home alone and twiddling my thumbs. *Duff * - we need to set up some kind of 'googlers anonymous'!  Has that pain subsided yet, by the way?

After all the emotional turmoil of the last few days, it transpires that J's flight was cancelled this morning so he's stranded in Paris for two days. I could think of worse places to get stuck, but he's not amused. In fact he just texted to say that at this rate we'd do better to kidnap a baby.

I really think this is going to be our last chance for a long while.    for fourth time lucky...

Nickyx


----------



## duff

Oh Nicky, I REALLY hope it is your time.  It would be so fabulous.  Mind you, we've had periods of not being able to try for a while and they've always ended up being good in the scheme of things, even if it was annoying to wait at the time. 

Ok, here's when you know you are a "googler anonymous", when each day you type "8dpo", "9dpo" etc into google and read everything that comes up!  Honestly, I've been through so many blogs in the last couple of days.  The worst is when you follow one thinking "oh my god!  I've got those symptoms!" and the person turns out to have a BFN.. 

The ovary pain stopped at the weekend and then, yesterday, I started getting cramps like the beginning of a period.  I can't actually tell what day I'm on though, because of having a two day surge.  Either 8 or 9 today I suppose. 

Anyway, last night the pain got stronger and more like the ovary pain I'd had.  Sort of throbbing on the left.  And then, a couple of hours ago, there was a spot of pink on the toilet paper!  I'm not going to say "when I wiped" because it was definitely pokery, not wiping  !  Anyway, lots of different stuff going on this cycle which may well be good news but I've been tricked by "symptoms" so many times before that I'm trying to be proper about it.


----------



## pem

You two....loads and loads and loads of                                       
                                
                                
                                

lots of love

Emma x


----------



## nickster

Thanks *Emma*! I've just been on the phone to a (straight) friend who's also trying for a baby. She's absolutely sure this is our month... let's hope she's right!

*Duff * - I reckon that pink spot sounds promising, even if you did coerce it out against its will!  Only time will tell hey? But no harm in staying positive...


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Nickster and Duff - I really hope that it is a double bubble month then you can be birth buddies!!! Can't wait to hear the verdict!! 
L x


----------



## duff

Hmpf.  My period has started with VENGENCE a day early.  I'm grumpy and sick to the back teeth of this ttc stuff.  Honestly, every time there's something new that makes me think "maybe this time..." and every time it isn't.


----------



## pem

I'm so sorry Duff, sending you loads of big hugs   .


----------



## snagglepat

Oh* Duff*, really sorry to hear it. 

It's so sh***y isn't it. Huge hugs to you and T.

Gina. x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Duff so sorry to hear that it wasn't your month 
L x


----------



## evelet

Duff - poor you. TTC is the worst worst worst. I guess Gina is the best example of why you should persevere though...

x


----------



## Tonia2

I'm so sorry Duff.   

B*gger.


----------



## nickster

Hey *duff*... Really sad to hear the news. I hope you're feeling a bit better now... it's so hard to pick yourself up time and time again. Look after yourself... Nickyx


----------



## duff

any news from you Nicky?  My fingers are so crossed for you that I can barely type! 

Well onwards for us.  As usual, I was absolutely convinced it had worked for us this month.  I don't know why I put myself through it like that.  My accupuncturist reckons it might have almost worked, what with the spotting and the cramps and all.  It's been a really rubbish, feeble period as well.  So much so that I had to test again yesterday just to be sure.  

Anyway, we're all set for another go.  Our wonderful donor has bought new, looser pants which he thinks may help


----------



## Mable

Go, the loose pants! Well done you Duff for keeping going. It's bloody hard work, keeping at it month after month.
Still rooting for you here.
Mable


----------



## nickster

Onwards and upwards *Duff*! Let's hope big pants are the way forward... I might have to drop a hint to J too! 

Nothing from me, but I'm not due for another week, so keep those fingers firmly crossed! I have a feeling the next few days will be a real trial, but at least my DP isn't working for once this weekend. We're off to explore the New Forest on Saturday then to a woodfair with a furniture-making friend on Sunday. Should be fun, especially if the weather stays like this - I love crisp autumnal days.

I was utterly convinced that our last attempt had worked, so in a way I don't have such high expectations this time around. I was plotting my plan b (a grand tour of India, Nepal and Bangladesh) yesterday with a friend, and am actually getting quite excited by the prospect of not being pregnant. Well, that's not really true of course, but it helps me to stay sane! 

Nickyx


----------



## pem

Nickster - Wishing you loads and loads of luck and      for this time!!! Hoping for a BFP for you!!

Emma


----------



## nickster

*Duff * - are you out there? Haven't heard from you in ages. I'm thinking it must be about time for your big-pants attempt. If so, here's wishing you all the luck in the world!!!   
Nickyx


----------



## duff

Hello Nicky!

First off HUGE congratulations on your BFP. that came in the nick of time, eh? Nick of time! Geddit? 

I would have written before but you know what's it's like after another negative cycle. I couldn't really get positive until this next attempt came round again. A very good friend of mine got pregnant last cycle and I felt SO jealous when I heard that I worried I wouldn't be able to see her again! I mean, of course I'm happy for her but I would have been slightly more happy if it had already worked for us!

My ovulation is later this month. I'm not really sure what's going on with it. The digital test said no this morning but a Superdrug cheapy said yes. Luckily our fella is so accomodating we can do it every day. Actually, this attempt is quite unusual. He works at the same place as me but has been working evenings up until recently. Now we're both working the same hours, we have to sneak off at lunchtime to do the business! Luckily I only live a short walk from the office. It feels very strange though, coming back to work afterwards!

anyway, I'm going to _try_ to not be so obsessed over this 2ww. Time will tell though!

X


----------



## nickster

Thanks Duff... we really are counting our blessings, especially as the timing was so fortuitous. I know that we've been incredibly lucky with how quickly it's happened for us. Now I'm hoping it's someone else's turn (hint hint!). x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Yeah Nickster congratulations on your  - thank goodness you decided to continue 'in the house' as well as resign yourself to the clinic option, maybe it took the stress off you all having a back up plan. How were the boys when you told them?  

Duff your turn now I'm sure......The BFN's are so hard to take.  Your lunchtime liaisons sound interesting- I thought that you were going to say you do it at work.. but then you said you go back to the house at lunchtime!!!  My donor and i used to work together as well but we always did it at his house. Sometimes he wouldn't even be there if he was working a night, he'd leave me a present with his partner in the bedroom and would have gone off to work, and I'd be racing there to get there within an hour on the M25.

I had an ultrasound yesterday - still thin lining and have a HSG booked for Monday and consultant appt hopefully all the results will be back - on Tues evening and then a plan of action so that I can get the surgery over or whatever and get back on the IVF treadmill!!!

Take care
L xx


----------



## nickster

Thanks *JJ*. The boys are beside themselves with excitement - sending daily emails giving their love to the apple pip etc etc! 

We're now trying to sort out the minutiae of our parenting arrangements, which we'll then get drawn up by a lawyer... The only significant sticking point is what surname we use. My DP thinks it's the least important issue of all (and she's usually right!), but I'm determined not to default to patriarchal name-giving in lieu of any other rationale. I guess we might end up doing the dreaded double-barrelled thang... or maybe we should just toss a coin. 

Glad to hear things are moving forward for you - best of luck for Monday/Tuesday...

Nickyx


----------



## duff

Hey Nicky,

Just a thought - a good friend of mine picked a whole new surname with her partner and the kids. They all put in their suggestions and chose a really good one that they all liked.

When T's and my children _finally _ decide to come along, I think everyone will take my name. Not because I'm patriarchal or anything (!) but because T's surname has the word "cock" in it and she says she wouldn't inflict that on a child!

JJ1 - is an HSG the one where they inject dye into your tubes? Have you had one before? I had one a while ago and didn't find it any problem at all. Remind me what the surgery you are having is.


----------



## pem

Duff - so so so much luck and     for you this time round, heres feeling positive about the big pants. 

The BFN's are really hard, we have been really lucky but I can honestly empathise with you as a few years ago when we were with the clinic it seemed like we were never to get a BFP and I know that feeling only too well when someone else gets pregnant and you really want to be happy for them but it can be hard. Will be sending BFP thoughts your way for the next few weeks!!

Nickster - the name thing - nightmare - we just can't decide, going to have to though one day soon, probably end up with the db thing, aarghhh, our names just don;t suit it though!! How you feelin?

Emma


----------



## snagglepat

Hi folks,

I'm not sure if anyone here is in the same box as us in that we have a known donor but one that we're not going to have much contact with. We've got an interesting long weekend coming up, as we're going to stay with my folks and he happens to live close to them so we're going to meet up. He hasn't done this with any of the other couples he's donated to once the child has arrived, apart from those he's gone back to to donate to a second time, so the context then was a bit different. 

On the one hand I'm quite looking forward to seeing him, mostly out of curiosity. We haven't seen him since he last donated in January and I can't remember some of the things about him I want to now that Ember is here - mostly physical things that don't come from my family that Ember has that I want to check out. On the other hand I wonder if it might be a bit weird. Nothing drastic, just, well, strange. I guess it's one of those rather unique situations that not many people get to experience.  

Anyone else been in a similar, or similar-ish situation? I'll be sure to post how it goes. My main goal is to get a photo of him and Ember together for her book. 

Gina.


----------



## Mable

Good luck Gina, hope it goes well and getting your photo sounds exciting. I love getting photos for Monty's various books and albums.

No experience to share, just wanted to say sounds exciting and hope it goes well (which I've already said). Sorry, we've got heating and hot water for the first time in 8 days and it's fabulous!!


----------



## nickster

Hello *Gina*

It does sound like an interesting weekend you've got lined up there! I'm guessing it could be a really positive - if slightly bizarre - experience for you all.

Ember's looking absolutely gorgeous, by the way! 

Nickyx

[Welcome back to the land of creature comforts *Mable*!]


----------



## Damelottie

I shall look forward to hearing about that Gina!

Ember looks jusy fantastic


----------



## snagglepat

Well, as expected, it was all just fine. We ended up devouring our way through the pub's desert menu and chatting for over two hours. We got some nice photos of him and Ember and we had a chance to explore thoughts around trying for number two at some point. He held her for a while, and pronounced her to have his nose, which she does seem to now we've seen them together. He seemed quite touched that we'd wanted to meet him. Although he's met some of the other kids that have come about from his donations its normally only when he's gone back to donate for a sibling so Ember is by far the youngest he's seen any of them. 

The only strange thing was the way I found myself scrutinising his face and hands - the only bits of him that were visible - to try and remember them so that I could make a comparison as Ember grows up. It all felt fine though. We talked about it afterwards and decided that we were happy with that and we won't plan to meet with him again until we're trying for number two, although we'll stay in touch by email and phone as we have done throughout. What this meeting did do is settle my minor insecurities about how he'd feel about us meeting up in the future if Ember ever decided she wanted to. After having quite a lengthy discussion on the pros of using known donors yesterday (mainly the potential access to information and contact benefits for the children) I now have no doubt at all that he'd be happy to.

So its all good. 

And Ember's eyes are all her own - darker than both mine and his. I guess she's just asserting her independence early. 

Gina. x


----------



## Mable

Glad it went so well Gina. Sounds very positive.

As you say, she is her own person already. That's how I feel about Monty. He is himself, a lovely mix of nature and nurture but all Monty, somehow.


----------



## snagglepat

I just thought I'd re-invigorate this thread for those of us who are about to start trying (or trying again) with a known donor, or who are thinking about it. I know there are a couple of us at present.

We've had contact with our donor again and he's up for donating once more, although he's said he'd probably only want to do it once a month. I'd prefer twice, but I guess we'll suck it and see. It will be a little while off yet though as I need to get back onto the Metformin to get me ovulating, hopefully under the guidance of whatever the local NHS fertility support is now that we've moved, but we'll have to wait and see on that front.

I had some fertile mucus yesterday and know it's about the right time in my cycle and we were very tempting to just give our donor a call and see if he'd be willing to pop down to give it a go, but I haven't been taking any folic acid or doing anything else to prepare so we decided it probably was better to wait a while. I'm off out to buy some folic acid later today though. Wouldn't want to miss another opportunity of it arises...

How are the rest of you doing?

Gina. x


----------



## TwoBumps

Hi Gina!
Can I hop onto this thread now..? I've been on just about every other one in the last couple of years but now getting very excited about the prospect of TTC with our own known donor!
Really good news about your donor too, I bet you were very relieved by his answer... it's so nerve wracking waiting to find out if they'll agree to it, isn't it?
I'm due to ovulate any day too & we were desperate to go ahead but (frustratingly) our donor's test results are not back yet so I'll have to sit this one out   Hopefully they should be back next week in time for my DW's ovulation so at least we'll get one attempt in this month. I've been on folic acid for the last 2 years (yeah, I know!) & DW has been on it for about 8 weeks so thankfully we're ok on that front.
Can I ask how Metformin works? I was just wondering if it might be something that could help us at all? Is it usual for you to have fertile mucus without being on the medication? Sorry if they're dumb questions, I don't know anything about Metformin but have seen it mentioned quite a bit.
Take care, Lottie x


----------



## lesbo_mum

Hi Girls

we are not using a known donor (well i dont think we are going to lol  ) but i wanted to hop on and say hi lol

My straight friend at work has PCOS and is taking Metformin.. she's just started taking i've told her i've heard good things on here about it... i really hope it works for her!!

Good luck Lottie  and Gina hope all goes well for you!!


----------



## Misspie

my doctor has said about metaformin....she said that there isn't enough evidence out there at the mo to prove it works for deff, as there is sooo many conflicting cases, it really is based on each individual.

L
x


----------



## snagglepat

I was put on Metformin because I have PCOS and my cycles were very irregular - not so great when you're TTC! It's only generally used in cases of PCOS as far as I'm aware because for some reason there seems to be a mild correlation between women with PCOS and those with diabetes. I think they discovered it can cause non-ovulatory women to start ovulating as a side effect when it was prescribed for diabetes - what it was actually developed for. It took about 6 months to start working for me last time but it did eventually get me to have regular cycles, and I also found it an awful lot easier to lose weight when on it, which helped the PCOS too. Some of the other side effects can be a bit grim though - it can cause havoc with your digestion - but although this was unpleasant while it lasted I seemed to grow immune to it after a while.

I took it in conjunction with regular scans at the local fertility centre to check I was ovulating, and when, which was really useful. I was able to get this on the NHS because I had a diagnosed fertility condition, but this was as far as I could go for free. If we'd wanted to try IUI or IVF we'd have had to go private, and had our donor's sperm quarantined for 6 months. I've not idea if I'll be entitled to it this time as my BMI is a lot higher this time and I'm really struggling to lose the weight without Metformin - and we're in a different area. We shall see!

Hope that helps!

Gina. x


----------



## TwoBumps

Hiya!
Have you seen the info on the home page about Natalie Gamble? She's opened a law firm specialising in fertility law! Here's the link:
http://www.gambleandghevaert.com/
We've had a good read of it as it's got _LOADS_ of great legal info for lesbian parents using a KD.

With Metformin, do you have to have scans alongside taking it? I'm wondering about asking my GP for it because whilst I do have regular cycles, they're not exactly timely & can vary from 25 to 35 days (tho my longest ever was 45 days). Can Metformin regulate them in those circumstances? My consultant also said I have slightly polycystic ovaries - I've always grown lots of follies whilst on stims for IVF - so I wondered if that can cause slightly irregular cycles?

Thanks for any info....

Lottie x

/links


----------



## snagglepat

I asked my GP for it last time I was there, but because it's not actually a fertility drug, he wouldn't prescribe it. I was prescribed it by the fertility service at my hospital last time initially. Once I was on it my GP could do the repeat prescription but it seems I'm not going to get my hands on it without a referral to a fertility person. I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask your GP but it didn't work for me. I imagine you could use it without the scans too, they were useful rather than essential, but that would mean you being able to get hold of it in the first place.  

You do need to watch the strength you get prescribed because of the side effects though. You need to build yourself up on it over a good few weeks, so taking it with some form of knowledgeable medical back-up would be good. I know others who have started taking it and given up quite quickly because the gut-related side effects can be so unpleasant, and it can take a while to have an impact.

Good luck with it!

Gina.


----------



## blueshoes

Hi there!

I just wanted to introduce myself. 
I'm 30 and DW is 38. We have a known donor and have been TTC for a few months now. We're inseminating at home and hoping for the best!

Maybe the next one will be a BFP.........


----------



## Steph29

Hi blueshoes,

Welcome 

Good luck with your insem hope all goes well.

Steph x


----------



## snagglepat

Hi Blueshoes,

Lovely to see you posting.  Good luck with this insem, fingers crossed it's the one for you. What kind of relationship do you have/plan to have with your donor? We're having contact, but only at a distance (our daughter is now 19 months old and we've met twice since she was born, plus emails).

Gina. x


----------



## lesbo_mum

Hi Blueshoes

Just wanted to say welcome to FF and hope you get your   very very soon!   

we are not using a KD but only as i didnt know anyone who could do it lol

Thanks

Em x


----------



## blueshoes

Thanks for making us feel welcome!!!   

We'll let you know how it goes.....

Gina, we've been lucky and our donor doesn't want involvement in our child's upbringing at all. However, he is a good friend of ours and so will be present throughout their life. Eventually, kiddie will know that he was the man who helped us when we wanted a baby. 

It seems so weird saying that because sometimes it seems so unlikely we'll ever get the BFP, let alone a whole baby!! I have been reading lately that 38 ain't such a bad age to be TTC, so I guess I shouldn't worry so much....


----------



## MandMtb

Hi blueshoes,

We are not using a KD, but I wanted to welcome you to FF, and wish you luck with TTC!

Love S x


----------



## snagglepat

Hi all,

*Blue shoes*, 38 isn't a bad age at all! Having said that, Rae was 38 when we decided we'd stop trying with her, but that was after nearly 2 years of trying. She did get pregnant once in that time, but miscarried early on. As it happens she's really happy not to have to go through pregnancy and birth now. She was a little anxious before, but now she's a mother without having to go through it she thinks she's definitely had the better end of the deal. I loved it, and can't wait to do it again, so it's all worked out well in the end. 

It's lovely that your donor will be around for your child too. How's this cycle going for you?

*Lottie*, I specifically asked my GP for metformin when I went in to get a referral to the fertility clinic and he absolutely won't prescribe it to me without a letter from a consultant. Just thought you might like to know.

It was a very quick and easy appointment though and the initial referral has come through really quickly. I'm off to see the fertility nurse specialists at RSH next Thursday! If I need to see a consultant then it'll be October before I can get an appointment, but I'm hoping that when they see from my notes that I was just under the nurses last time that I won't need it. We shall see! I'm getting quietly excited about it all now. I ought to savour it really. This anticipation phase is really quite enjoyable, envisioning being pregnant again, giving birth again, having another child etc. I know that once we do eventually start trying the anxiety of the 2wws and the upset of the BFNs will be horrible, so I need to treasure this nice fantasy part of the journey. 

Anyway, best wishes to all!

Gina. x


----------



## TwoBumps

Hiya!
Thanks for the tip Gina! Good luck with the nurses, let's hope they see sense. Enjoy being excited, we're both giddy ths end too!

Well, our 1st insem is approaching..! I've still not had my LH surge & although I thought my cervix was a _little _ higher on Sunday, it went back to normal so maybe I'll have to be more patient! I've just checked it again & it seems to be a little higher again & also softer but not much FCM yet. (The things we share on here, hey!?) If I have a 28 day cycle (which I don't always) I should ovulate on Thursday, but I have a feeling it's going to be a day or so later. Do you think I should ask him to 'clear his tubes out' again if my surge is going to be later than we thought? If it's not until Sat then he will have abstained for 5 days by then, will that affect the sperm? It's really difficult knowing when to ask him to abstain from. Argh!

Thanks for any advice, Lottie x


----------



## snagglepat

Hi Lottie,

We did have concerns on the abstinence front ourselves when we started out, but then we came across some research that said that if a man abstains for more than 1-2 days he can actually reduce the quality of his sperm. Here are some links:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/jun/30/highereducation.sciencenews

http://www.fertilityneighborhood.com/content/in_the_news/archive_1243.aspx

So we stopped worrying! The only time I felt a bit put out was the day when he came to donate to us in the evening having already donated to another couple earlier in the day. I felt a bit like we were getting a bum deal that day, and we didn't conceive that month. It probably had nothing to do with it as our donor does have a good sperm count, but it still felt a bit uncomfortable.

Good luck!

Gina. x

/links


----------



## TwoBumps

Thank you so much, those links were really helpful & have put our minds at rest. I think they helped us come to the conclusion that we need to try & relax about it & just go with the flow at first (no pun intended   )
I came home from work early today with the start of some sort of virus (sore throat, aches, temperature). Great... like I need a load of antibodies rushing around my body when I'm just about to inseminate!!
Oh well, what will be will be!
Thanks again, Lottie x


----------



## Misspie

Hey girls, 

Lottie, Hope all is going well with yourself. Sounds like you are going to be a busy beaver and have loads of fun with your next inseminations!

BlueShoes, welcome to FF and wish you all the luck with your KD and journey. Look forward to chatting to you along the way

xx


----------



## TwoBumps

Hi all!
I got my surge this afternoon so we're going to collect our 1st donation this evening, on our way home from the theatre! We're so excited!   We're planning on an insem tonight, tomorrow & on Sat. 
DW is due to surge on Sat/ Sun so our poor KD is going to be exhausted as we'll repeat it all again with her! Hopefully he'll get a day of in between us both!
Lottie x


----------



## nismat

Good luck!   Don't wear the poor bloke out!


----------



## jo36

Hope the insems are going well *Lottie*.  that it works this month..Xx


----------



## Steph29

Hope everything goes well with the insems Lottie  

Stephx


----------



## TwoBumps

Hi!
Thanks for all your good luck messages, pleased to say all is going as planned so far!
I need to ask a question... does anyone know how much sperm is a normal amount to ejaculate? (Perhaps asking other lesbians is not my brightest idea so far  ) It's just that we've been surprised how little there is! By the time we've got it home (20mins journey) it's liquified & when we've drawn it up into the syringe there's been 2-3mls each time. Is that normal?
After last night's insem, my DW started giggling. When I asked her what she was laughing at, she said, "I'm pleased to tell you that you're now the proud owner of...... a grey pubic hair!"

Well that's just bloody marvellous! My razor will be getting rid of _that _ one! 

Lottie x


----------



## Pinktink

Hi LottieMaz,

 at the grey pube! Teehee! I think that's a pretty normal amount to ejactulate, it's quality not quantity remember!  

Good luck! xxx


----------



## jo36

Lottie - absolutely no idea how much there should be!!! Hopefully the peeps who did KD can help more! But thanks for the chuckle... re. grey pube!!!!    Bet you loved DP when she announced that little darling!!!


----------



## snagglepat

*Lottie*, hehehe re the grey pubic hair. It's probably the stress of the TTC process that put it there though, and if that didn't do it, then the chaos of parenting most definitely will!  With luck you'll find that out all too soon.

And as for the amount of semen, that sounds perfectly normal to me. We used to get around 2-3mls from our donor, sometimes a little less than 2, but we knew from his sperm count tests that it was good quality so that didn't bother us. Our previous donor had average quality sperm but used to produce 3-4 mls so we figured they evened out in the long run.  2mls a time got us pregnant in the end!

Wishing you both the best of luck. Fingers crossed for a double whammy of BFPs in two weeks time. (And a sincere hope that if that's what happens, neither of you conceives twins!)

Best wishes,

Gina x


----------



## TwoBumps

Hi,
Thanks for all your reassurances that our donor is producing a normal amount! DW & I ended up sharing one of the samples (my 3rd & her 1st was on the same day!), if we're successful would that make them twins??  
Gina - we sincerely hope that too, lol! We'd end up being in all the chat mags, you can just see the headlines..! Mind, we'd probably need all the money we could get our hands on!!

Well, my test day is 26th June & DW's is 28th June so we shall see....!


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

lottieMaz- good luck for your 'double' 2wws - now dose that half, or double the stress levels in the house!!  

Is you donor donating to anyone else as well? He is a busy boy?  I have my donor on a sex ban from tomorrow morning till Fri as he is donating in the lab on fri morning for DNA fragmentation test- I just tell his partner to keep his hands off him - look but not touch etc.
L x


----------



## pem

LottieMaz - loads of luck for your Double 2ww, it is a bloomin good idea doing it together, mind you those early pregnancy hormones will have you both somewhat cross at eachother i reckon! Heres hoping you both get a BFP!


----------



## TwoBumps

Thanks everyone! So far we're doing ok re the 2ww. I think this time next week the madness will be setting in!!
JJ1 - our donor is just donating to us (he's a close friend too) which we're quite pleased about. It must be quite hard trying to co-ordinate abstaining vs insems for men donating to more than one person!? Good luck with the DNA tests x
Pem - thanks to you too. How have I managed to miss your fantastic news! Massive congratulation to you!! You must be thrilled! It must be a really strong result to test positive so early! Oooh, I'm so happy for you x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Pem great news about your BFP.

LottieMaz best of luck
x


----------



## lesbo_mum

Lottiemaz- one week down for you hun so only a week left    that you get your


----------



## little green

Hiya,

Lottiemaz - good luck on your double 2ww!   We're halfway thru T's 2ww now and it just gets harder ....  

Em (lesbomum) - welcome back, and it's great news your mum is helping out with the costs!!!

Kelz - fingers crossed for your 2nd time, and hope yr 2ww flys by.

I have a question:

does anyone know how much ESB (European Sperm Bank) charges to import sperm to the UK? (Their website just says to contact them for more info). Do you think the names of the donors on their site are real?  
Ta!!!

S and T x


----------



## kelz2009

HI, 

Little green -We were told by lwc to look at that site to import sperm, so we paid 100euros to register with them to be able to look at their photos, more info, voice interview it was fab to know more info but we phoned lwc with the name of the donor and embryologist said the prices are- 380euro for import, 300euro for sperm and 1000euro for pregnancy slot which you have o have.  .
We found this too expensive after paying for treatment and drugs etc....  
With lwc you are looking at approx 400 pound for sperm so it is a big difference, lwc said they are a good company and they have few girls who use that site, the lwc were willing to order it for us as it has to be delivered to clinics. Hope this is a little help for you. We paid registration for 3months and didnt need it after so wasted approx 83pound  . 

Lottie maz- hope you get  double bfp


----------



## BecsW

Hi Ladies,
Good luck to all of you are in the middle of tx at the mo and hope the rest of you are enjoying having a bit of a break from it all.

Littlegreen-haven't imported sperm so can't help with that one I am afraid but didn't want to read and run as it were. Reckon you will get lots of helpful tips on here though.

LottieMaz-really hope you get a double BFP! How amazing would that be!!  

S and T-I know how tough that 2ww can be, hope it doesn't drag by too much   have you got any lovely things planned over the next few days to help the time go by? 

I have been enjoying a month off tx and it has been well needed! Am feeling so much better now, more rested and back to my old self. (feel it has given my DW a bit of a break too as she has been fab at 'looking after me'). But we are ready for another try, so bring on the old AF (actually that sounds mad - when else would we be looking forward to our AF arriving ) but in this case, I am looking forward to it arriving so we can get started again.

Becs x

ps-saw Take That last night! They were amazing!!


----------



## kelz2009

hi becs, did u see take that in cardiff?


----------



## BecsW

Hi Kelz,

Yes we did see Take That in Cardiff!! They were just amazing, did you go too?

Becs x


----------



## kelz2009

Hi becs no I didnt go but loads of my friends and dps work mates went and said it was brill. Are you from wales??


----------



## BecsW

kelz2009 said:


> Hi becs no I didnt go but loads of my friends and dps work mates went and said it was brill. Are you from wales??


Hi Kelz,
No I'm in Somerset, so it wasn't far to hop over the bridge,
Becs


----------



## lesbo_mum

Becs what part of somerset you from? I used to live in Taunton.


----------



## Anthony Reid

The offending spammer has just been removed.

Regards,
Tony


----------



## Damelottie

Thanks Tony x


----------



## TwoBumps

Hi all,
We've all been a bit quiet on here haven't we!!?? Thought I'd kick start us off again with sharing our news (for those that don't already know, lol!)
We've recently found out that the NHS have agreed to fund an IVF cycle for us!! We're the 1st same-sex couple living withing our PCT _ever _ to have been given funding! It's taken months to get them to agree & their decision is based on our previous treatment history... we're so relieved they've finally said yes!

We've talked to our KD about it as we'd still like him to donate & he's agreed. Until we can start, we're going to continue with the home insems as we're going to need to get his sperm frozen & quarantined for 6 months until the tests they'll run on him come back clear.

We were asked to have some tests done on me before we go for the appointment to plan our treatment so we went for my day 2 scan on Friday. Guess what...? The sonographer asked if I have PCOS!! She told us that my right ovary is larger than normal & has a typical appearance of PCOS, with 9 follicles already showing (on day 2 of my cycle) and they're in a 'string of pearls' pattern around the edge of my ovary. I then had some blood tests done to confirm it but she said she's pretty certain I have it as I have other symptoms of it too! How come LWC have never mentioned it!?!
The sonographer said if it's confirmed, they'll prescribe me with Metformin prior to the start of the IVF cycle as it has been shown to improve egg quality & reduce miscarriage rates for women with PCOS.

Well, that was a shocker, I can tell you!! Good old NHS, hey!? Thank God they agreed to treat us or we could have carried on not knowing this important info forever!

How's everyone else getting along with things?

Lottie x


----------



## snagglepat

That's great news! Well done for sticking to your guns through it all.  Incidentally, Metformin worked a treat for me. After about three months on it I started having proper, regular, ovulatory cycles and we were pregnant on the third try after going on it. It might be all you need....

Good luck!

Gina. x


----------



## TwoBumps

Can you imagine if I got pg on Metformin after all the treatment I've had over the years...!? That would be fantastic!! 
I'm going to ask if they'll prescribe it for me when we have our consultation on 6th August. We haven't actually told them we have a KD yet, so we'll also be explaining that we'll still be doing home insems until the IVF can start. We didn't want to jeopordise our place at the top of the donor sperm list (it's taken us two years to get there!) until we knew things were sorted with our KD.
Do the benefits of Metformin increase the longer you take it for? I got the impression that they were just going to prescribe it for the month prior to the IVF cycle. Mind you, they're unaware that we've been ttc 'naturally' so maybe when we tell them it may change when they prescribe it?
Lottie x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Lottie I told my clinic that I'd been ttc with my known donor at home (no dif to couples ttc au naturel) as I think it is madness that we haev to quarantine sperm for 6 months as we've already exchange bodily fluids! but **** is **** and it is their rules, but if you get your man to the clinic in advance he can deposit and have the bloods done and then the big defrost can happen quicker.
L x


----------



## Misspie

Hey Lottie, 

Congrats on the NHS funding. it seems that your patience and persistance certainly paid off.

Metformin, sounds like a great idea....I need a bit of that, as my A/f still hasn't reared its head. Do you think that it would help me loose weight too?

xxxxxxxx


----------



## southern_angel

Have just seen this board so hop it's okay to jump in as a newbie...

I'm currently looking for a KD and I just wondered if any of you had any advice about this bit of the process? 

I'd always hoped that I'd have a friend who would be interested in donating but it's not really worked out. A close friend offered but that was a few years ago now and our lives have changed significantly since (we are much less close, for one) and asking him now doesn't feel right. I also have someone at work who I'm really fond of and would love to ask but for various reasons I think that it would be really too complicated for him. So I'm stuck looking for someone (currently) unknown to be a known donor... I think ideally I'd like someone who was happy to meet the baby/child occasionally without taking an active co-parenting role. 

I posted on co-parent-match-com and after a number of dodgy messages with men who wanted sex (or 'natural insemination'  ) I have been exchanging emails with a seemingly sane and decent chap who I've arranged to meet up with in a few weeks. Fingers crossed!  I'm mostly trying to trust in my instinct, that he will either feel 'right' or not... But also I guess I need to think about what to ask him... Any advice or experience would be much appreciated!

Thank you, 
Angelmine


----------



## Misspie

Hi Angel,

Welcome to the boards. I know your not initially looking for a co-parent donor, though please have a look the thread below, with another gentleman on here looking for a donor/surrogate/co-parent.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=198829.0

It's certaily worth having a chat with Stuart, you never know what you might be able to learn from each other.

Me and my DW are looking at going through egg sharing, so can't really help with the places too look. But there is certainly plenty of others on here that will be mroe helpful than me! 

All the best

Lorna
x


----------



## lesbo_mum

Hiya

We looked into finding a known donor and tried co parent match also but got scared off by all the dodgey ones...

theres also:

http://www.free-sperm-donations.com/

http://gaydarnation.com/UserPortal/Homepage/Default.aspx

However as Lorna says mayabe chat with Stuart... he's a lovely chap and if we hadnt decided on using the clinic i'd be chatting him up lol 

EM x

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.UK or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## TwoBumps

Hi Angel, welcome! Have you had any luck with your search for a KD yet or been in touch with Stuart? Good luck with it!

This week we had our appointment at the NHS clinic who'll be treating us. We told them about our KD & as JJ1 said a few posts back, we'll need to have his sperm quarantined for 6 months until he's got the all clear from the tests. Even they agreed it's a bit frustrating having to wait that long when we use his fresh sperm every month anyway, but HFEA rules have to be followed I guess. They wouldn't prescribe me any Metformin yet (which we were a bit disappointed about!) but have said I'll have it in the month prior to the IVF as it reduces the risk of OHSS.

We both had insems on Wed/ Thurs this week. When the clinic scanned me on Thurs they could see I'd very recently ovulated so it seems like we timed it well. I'd detected my surge on Wed evening so it must have been the tail-end of it if I'd already ovulated by Thursday lunchtime!

Lottie x


----------



## southern_angel

Hi Lottie, 

Thanks for the welcome    I'm currently still emailing with the guy I meet through co-parent-match, he's away for the next couple of weeks but hopefully we will meet up when he gets back. We haven't spoken on the phone yet but he has suggested that we do that first (I feel a bit more nervous about that, which is a bit daft!). Still trying to think about what to ask him... He has helped several other women through DI so I thought I would ask if any of them would be happy to talk to me - that seems like the best way of reassuring myself that he is legit... 

Also, one of the things I worry / think about with using a known donor is that unlike donor id release sperm, there wouldn't be a formal way of my child being able to trace donor-siblings if they wanted to. Meeting / being aware of other families and children that he has donated to would maybe be one way around that... 

Is your KD someone who you knew before you started on the journey of TTC or did you go through a similar process of searching for him?      

Sounds like great timing for your insems this month, wishing you the best of luck for the 2WW...

Angel


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Angel - are you going to co parent or just KD DI? My known donor is a dear friend of mine so a slightly different situationL x


----------



## TwoBumps

Angel - we have known our KD for a few years & he's a fairly close friend. However, we wont be co-parenting. In our agreement we've included a section about him being known to the child and that whilst he wont have any legal parental responsibilities he will be known as 'daddy/ dad' to avoid confusion for the child. We only live a few miles apart and all feel that since he's going to be known to the child, it is better that they know who he is from the start, rather than find out at a later date that 'Uncle' is actually their biological father. We've also agreed that his family may be known to the child & may also have a relationship with them (if the child is happy with that), but that is going to be very much child-led and we have also stated that in the agreement. 
It was really tricky drawing up that side of the agreement as we had to be careful not to unwittingly give him too many rights, without excluding him completely. Luckily we all had similar ideas about the amount/ type of contact he will have with the child(ren) so it worked out ok.

I think it's a great idea for you to ask to speak to other women who have been helped by the guy you've told us about. It seems a reasonably good way of finding out if he's genuine. Do you know how many women he's helped & how many children have been born as a result of his donations? You could ask them what kind of relationships he has with those children & their parent(s), do any of them have contact with other children from his donations, how many attempts did it take for them to conceive, was he reasonable about being available at short notice every month? I'm sure there's loads more you'll want to know too!! 
I also think it's encouraging that he's suggested talking on the phone first and that he's not just jumping into it head-on. I'm not surprised you're nervous, it's a big thing thats about to be undertaken! It's important that you trust each other before you begin so take your time to get to know him a bit. You'll be discussing sperm counts in no time, lol!!

Lottie x


----------



## southern_angel

Thanks for that Lottie, sorry for taking ages to reply - I don't seem to get any update to say that there are new replies... 

It's really helpful to hear how you went about setting up agreements and such, I'll definitely ask the potential donor what he has done about that in the previous cases. He has helped create (I think) 7 families, one who also live on the South Coast so hopefully I'll be able to make contact with them. He is open to ongoing contact but not to co-parenting (he is partnered and is already raising a family). I will ask him about availability as well - he lives in London but has travelled to donate before - I'm not sure how that works in terms of short notice if I ovulate earlier than expected or whatever... I was charting last year and my cycle does vary a fair bit. 

I've just booked a last minute holiday for next week so will have to wait to speak to him until after that now - even more time for the nerves to build! 

Angel x


----------



## southern_angel

Hello all,

Just an update to say that I have finally spoken to the potential KD I met online...

All seems great so far   He sounded very genuine and warm. He has given me contact details for one of the other women he has donated to, so hopefully I'll be able to talk to her soon too. I felt reassured by the answers he gave to my questions, and he was easy to talk to, even in my nervous and bumbling state! 

I've arranged to meet up with him in person in a couple of weeks time, am feeling really positive about it but trying not to get too carried away...  

One issue is that he lives in London so I'd be travelling to inseminate (or he could travel here and stay in a hotel, which I think he has done before). Have any of you had a KD live in a different city than you?

Angel


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Yes my KD lived in East Sussex and I lived in London, so I used to go down, 3 days consecutively hard when you factor shift work in to!!, we are good friends so if it happened over the weekend I could stay at theirs.  We ended up going to a clinic and discovered MF issues.  That was 4-5 yrs ago!!
Good Luck
L x


----------



## lucky2010

Hi,

Our donor lives and works in Birmingham and we live in Manchester. We travel to him to get the donations and either stay over night and have two donations on consecutive days or, as I did yesterday, drive down get donation and then drive back. I think if I'm not pregnant this time this is the way it's going to happen more frequently as we both work shifts and have childcare to consider... not easy logistically!!!

GOOD LUCK x


----------



## southern_angel

Thanks Rachjulie and JJ, good to know others have managed this! 

At least I've got a while to figure out logistics - I'm not planning to start ttc until the new year...

I think I'll have to look into hotels both near me and near him, he is happy to donate twice each cycle which is great but will mean an overnight stay somewhere for one of us!


----------



## katena

Hey all,

I just wanted some advice - or even pointing in the right direction.

We're currently having IUI through a clinic on nhs funding with an anonymouse donor - if we don't manage to concieve with this route we're going to talk to a friend about him being a known donor. He's said to us on 2 different occaisions that he would be up for it.

Im just wondering how you all started the dicussions  -what needs to be discussed etc etc!!

I know his role/participation is a biggy...obviously that we wont be chasing him for money...but what were the things you think you should have discussed if you could do it all again?

Our KD is a good friend...living locally and gay! 

Any pearls of wisdom would be great!!

Karen


----------



## southern_angel

Hi Katena,

I found a few books quite helpful in terms of what to ask known donors -

Stephanie Brill's http://www.amazon.co.uk/Essential-Guide-Lesbian-Conception-Pregnancy/dp/1555839401/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252090145&sr=1-2

and Rachel Pepper's http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultimate-Guide-Pregnancy-Lesbians-Pre-Conception/dp/157344216X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252090145&sr=1-1

both have relevant chapters (I think from memory - I can't access either of them at the mo as my house is in chaos due to kitchen refit!).

Great news that your friend has offered already, should make talking to him lots easier 

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that FertilityFriends.co.UK or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## southern_angel

Quick update on my search for a KD...

I spoke with another woman that the donor I've been talking with had donated to. She was incredibly positive about him and how professional he had been. She has recently had a second baby with him as a KD, which is (as she said) testimony to how happy she was with him the first time! It's also great that he was happy to donate for a sibling, which is one of the many things I forgot to ask him on the phone!  

So, I'm going to meet him in person next weekend... I'm still feeling nervous but really excited - finally I might have a way forward


----------



## lucky2010

fab news angelmine!!! Exciting times!!! Good luck.

Katena, will try and find some relevant stuff I have for you but most of it is slightly different as we found our donor for this purpose and didn't know him before.

Rach x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Katena - It is hard breaking the ice with friends, my KD only used to offer when he was drunk, and another time he text me after we'd been out for a night offering.

I chatted to my good friend (girl) and she was talking about me and wanting a baby, and he said to her 'Well I have offered sperm several times and she hasn't ever said anything'.  So that was the way forward.  Once we got the first home insemination over all the embarassment and awkwardness goes and you get used to it.  My donor is gay and lives with his partner.  That was 4-5 years ago for us when we first started out and now we have been through most twists and turns TTC can throw at us.  

I would also recommend that he has a sperm analysis as when we went to the clinic we discovered he had a low count and we needed ICSI.

L x


----------



## snagglepat

Hi *Angel*,

I just wanted to pop on and say Hi. I think we may know each other from other places. You'll recognise my username if we do, and if we do I'm very happy to see you here. It's a wonderful place for support and these gals really did keep me sane through our lengthy journey.

I'm guessing you might have met with you potential KD by now. How did it go? It sounds as though things are going as well as they could be so far and he sounds really quite like our KD. (He isn't, ours lives up north, but their situations sound similar.) We had recommendations from two other people ours had donated to before we met with him, and in the end end our daughter is, I think, the twelfth child he has had a part in creating. He's a father to three of them and was a donor for the rest. It gave us a lot of confidence, and he's been absolutely true to his word every step of the way.

As for distances, we were about 90 minutes drive (in good traffic) apart. He offered to do the drive each time and that's what he did with the exception of one occasion when we happened to be visiting relatives not far from where he lives. We expected to at least cover petrol costs but he would have none of it. He came to us twice each cycle, but now we've approached him about a sibling he's said he'd prefer to only do it once per cycle. I guess if we want more than that we'll have to travel to him, but we haven't quite got to the point of working out the details yet. He'd drive to us and back each time, although he did sleep over once at our house when he was very delayed due to traffic and was too tired to safely drive home. We'd known him for some time by then though.

*Karen*, when we were initially considering asking a friend (who became our KD initially but who we eventually moved on from) we ended up just blurting out the question to him. He was very positive and asked for time to think about it, after which he came back with a yes. Not so much advice there! But it is worth having in mind exactly what you're looking for. If you can say 'this is the kind of arrangement I'd like, though I may be willing to reconsider aspects of it' then he has something more definite to work with when considering his response.

Good luck to you both!

Gina. x


----------



## southern_angel

Hi Gina,

I've written out two long replies this morning and the computer has crashed both times, hopefully this one will make it! Lovely to see you here too, I'd wondered whether you were still on these boards as I remember you recommending them a while ago. 

Yes, I met up with my potential KD last weekend and it went really well   He's a very sweet guy, like yours he has a family with 3 children of his own, and has donated to (I think) 8 women. I am finding that reassuring too, as well as the glowing reference that the women I spoke to gave him. I try and trust my instinct a lot, so I felt that once I met him it would either feel right or not, and it felt right... He was very easy to talk with (even the awkward questions about sexual health testing etc. felt not too tricky), and was reassuringly open-minded about future contact (which is of of the issues I'm fretting about quite a lot). We talked a bit about contracts as well - he hasn't generally had them but I think I'd want one.  

Logistically what he proposes is that if I ovulate during the week (if I have to teach first thing the next morning) then he would travel down, I'd sort out a hotel for him near here and then collect the sperm from him there (in the evening and first thing the next morning) and then inseminate at home. If I ovulate at the weekend (when he has commitments at home) then I would travel up to London and stay in a hotel near his house, he'll then deliver the sperm and I'll inseminate there. I much prefer the idea of doing it at home, but suspect that the logistics might be easier if I travel up - the thought of driving home from a hotel with a pot of sperm has a lot of comedy potential ;-) 

So, the upshot of all that is that I think I'm tentatively planning to go ahead with him and start ttc in January!  I'm feeling still really nervous but excited too - as you know it's been a hell of a year and having something positive to look forward to and to feel I'm moving forward is doing me a lot of good... 

I read on another thread that you are hoping to start ttc again next month? Really exciting news  

Take care, 
Angel


----------



## TwoBumps

Hi everyone,
Sorry we've been awol the last 4 weeks, we went on holiday & then just been so busy that this is the 1st time I've actually logged onto FF since our return 2 weeks ago!
*angel * - things sound like they're going great your end, how exciting!

We went with our KD for a sperm analysis in mid-August & he has had a request to see his GP to discuss the results so we're a bit worried that all is not well. I wonder if they always ask to see them to discuss so they can explain what everything means, or could it be because there's something wrong!? He doesn't seem to be in much of a rush to go (I wonder if that's a man thing?) & I've offered to go with him so that I hear it from the horses mouth, which he was fine with. We've also got an appointment at the end of the month to arrange all his official donor tests & sperm freezing, prior to commencing our 4th IVF cycle (1st with our KD).

My DW is currently on 2ww but my cycle has gone a bit 'squew-wiff' and I'm now 7-10 days behind her (we used to ovulate within a day of each other) so will probably ovulate next week. At least we don't have to share the donations anymore!


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Lottie I hope that all is well with your KD- my KD's was told over the phone that his results were good enought for AI and we needed ICSI. Really hope that yours are ok

ALso one of the girls on the single girls thread imported sperm and then was told it was only suitable for ICSI, and it sounds this is quite common with LWC.


----------



## TwoBumps

Thanks JJ1, we've got our fingers crossed that things will be ok. If not it will be yet another hurdle in our never ending journey! I've just been over to collect a donation this evening and he told me he's got a day off tomorrow and is going to try to get in to see his GP so we might not have too long to wait until we know his results. 
We timed it quite well this month, had an insem last night as I'd started getting my fertile signs. Got my OPK+ this afternoon and done another insem this evening. Lets just hope they're good enough swimmers to find my elusive egg!  
Lottie x


----------



## ragill

[Hi everyone, ive only posted on here a few times and i'm a frequent 'lurker' ha ha

anyway i have a few questions for u lovely lot if u can help or advise. OK so we're finally pg (woo hoo!!!) and i need to get this off my chest...please help if u can. Basically our donor is my OH's best friends husband. He has obviously done a wonderful thing for us and we all agreed that he would have no involvment as he has his own family and this baby would b ours and not his. I'm getting quite anxious tho about the questions from health professionals, how much do they want to know? shall i just be saying anon donor via home insemination?

Is anyone else in a similar position (father not being 'known')??

i thought this was all clear in my head but now i'm pg another 10 000 have appeared 

thanx for any advice 
rach x

/color]


----------



## nismat

Congratulations on your pregnancy Rach! 

I haven't gone through a pregnancy with a known donor, but have gone through a pregnancy as a lesbian parent, so can understand your concerns as to such questions. I think that the best advice that I can offer you is to make a decision now on exactly how much you want healthcare professionals to know - on the whole, you really don't need to pass on that much information if you don't want to. In your circs, I would say something like "we conceived via home inseminations, with the help of a friend who is not going to be involved in our child's life on a day-to-day basis". They really don't need to know any more than that, unless you choose to divulge further details. How you conceived isn't really their business, but we found it a lot easier all round to be clear about the method upfront, to avoid any possible awkwardness on either side - it's easier to feel in control if you've chosen what to say and when/how to say it  

When you first see a midwife, they will go through a medical history checklist for both you and the father/donor, but apart from that, pretty much all of your antenatal care really focusses on you and your baby (unsurprisingly), so it shouldn't really be something that even comes up much, unless you encounter some particularly inquisitive people. We saw a small team of midwives, and right from the beginning made it clear how we had conceived (in our case, eventually via IVF using an "anonymous" donor). We were able to give details such as blood group etc. for the donor, but there wasn't much to put in the "father" section of the antenatal notes! As will be the case for a fair number of women who aren't clear just who the father of their child is.... so it's hardly a unique situation for them. Generally the midwives will ask if there is any medical history of particular illnesses in either family background, so if there is any info regarding this that you can pass on, it's well worth doing so. Certain ethnic backgrounds might suggest the need for particular additional antenatal tests for instance.

Hope that helps,
Tamsin


----------



## snagglepat

Hi Rach,

We went through exactly this, with a known but uninvolved sperm donor. The only time anything was asked was at the booking in appointment at around 10 weeks pregnant when the midwife fills in all the details on your pregnancy notes. The questions as I remember them were the 'father's' race, any major health issues and whether there were any major health issues in his family background (things like heart disease, strokes, diabetes etc). This is purely to get a picture of any genetic predispositions that your baby may have. I couldn't see how they were actually that relevant so I just answered the questions I knew the answers to and told them to leave the rest blank. There is also a space on the forms for the 'father' but this is really to do with the other live-in parents and asks things like their drinking/smoking habits etc. I insisted that they put DP down in that bit.

You don't have to tell them anything you're not happy with them knowing. We certainly never gave them any names or identifying information and to be honest, after that first booking in appointment it never came up again.

Good luck with it!

Gina. x


----------



## ragill

*thanx ladies, your advice is always great. We've got our midwife appt 2moz, gp was fab about our pregnancy so hoping the midwife will b the same. gonna just answer the questions as we can i suppose!!!?

thanx again 
rach x*


----------



## TwoBumps

Well, thought we needed to get this thread going again... it had fallen onto the 2nd page!!

We're delighted to be able to share on this thread that we have managed to find a new KD!! We're over the moon! All his health checks are already in place, he has proven fertility (  ) and we're hoping to start isems on our next cycles. 
Something positive has happened for us! We have a good feeling about this...!!
Lottie & Maz xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

LottiwMaz so pleased that you have a new KD and all goes well- that was a very quick find is he a friend of from a site?

Good Luck

L x


----------



## lesbo_mum

Woo hoo Lottiemaz so so happy for you!


----------



## nismat

Oh that's wonderful news Lottie & Maz, I'm so glad that you are able to keep on trying at home, rather than reverting to further clinic treatment after all your experiences. 
I hope that he proves really lucky for you, and that you'll be able to post some pregnancy news in the not too distant future. Will you both be doing insems again?


----------



## southern_angel

That's wonderful news Lottiemaz, congratulations


----------



## jo36

This is just wonderful news for you guys, you must be so happy. I was only explaining to DW two nights ago about your journey so far, and all your bad luck - lets hope this new start brings masses of good fortune your way.  

Jo x


----------



## TwoBumps

Hi girls!
We started our new journey last night with the first of our insems from our new KD! The timing was great (DW got her smiley face in the afternoon  ) so we've got to sit tight until 27th November now  . The poor man drove for nearly 2 hours in pouring rain & rush hour traffic to meet us at a place that would enable us to get home within an hour to do the insem, what an angel!!
He'd initially approached us about being our donor after he'd learned of all our troubles. It was such an unexpected and pleasant surprise & not something we had thought in a million years would happen! It was so strange, I'd had an astrology reading a few days before and one of the questions I'd asked was of course about us having children. The astrologer said that my charts showed 'caution' when trying to answer that question. Apparently, in astrology, 'caution' means that the situation is about to change and therefore the question is not relevant to the chart. I wonder if that meant we were about to meet our KD & start ttc again (at that point we thought we were going to have to wait for anon donor sperm & IVF again) or maybe it could even mean we're about to get some BFP news?!?
Here's hoping.....!
xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

LottieMaz wishing you luck, are you both doing it this month?
Was your KD a friend who knew your troubles or did he find you

really hope it goes well
X


----------



## TwoBumps

Thanks JJ1, he found us  
I'm due to ovulate in another couple of weeks so we'll hopefully be trying again then. We should know DW's result by then.
xx


----------



## southern_angel

I saw my donor again this weekend and all is looking positive. We've agreed contracts in principle (thanks Snagglepat for an excellent contract to use as a model) and so ready to go. 

I'm faced with a tricky decision now though. I'd planned to start ttc in January, but based on cycle dates that would actually be the very end of January/beginning of Feb. We can't do December (would be around Boxing day, he's away) so he has suggested that we have our first try this month (which would be in about 2 weeks time). I keep changing my mind about whether this is a good idea or not. If I did, the first dreaded 2WW would be pretty busy (work and a family event) - which might be good? 

Part (most!) of me is so desperate to start that I think I should just go for it, but it also feels really soon and maybe I'd be better off waiting and getting through Christmas first (I had an awful bereavement in late 2008, so Christmas is going to be hard). Plus I guess if I was lucky enough to conceive then I'd be just 4 weeks over Christmas, so too early to feel safe enough to tell anyone, but I'd have to explain not drinking etc... 

Any thoughts? Decisions are not my strong point! 

Angel


----------



## TwoBumps

Angel - You've got to feel comfortable & ready to start with your KD, if that means waiting a couple of additional weeks then there's no harm in that. But if you're already happy with everything & desperate to start ttc then what will the wait change?
You may find the 2ww is a good distraction to help get you through your sad times, or alternatively you may find the happier events during the festive period will be a good distraction whilst on the 2ww.
Hmm, sorry, not been much help have I ?!?


----------



## snagglepat

Hi Angel,

What does your gut say? At the end of the day if everything is in place then there is no reason to wait. The chances of you conceiving in the first month are reasonably slim, so you could treat it as a practice run. If you were lucky enough to conceive then doing things like not drinking over Christmas will be small prices to pay, and there are lots of reasons you could give for that - pretending to be on antibiotics being just one. Plus the chances are the nasty early symptoms won't have started so you won't be feeling sick/completely exhausted for another week or two - it gets a lot harder to hide when you're falling asleep mid-conversation and running to the loo every five minutes. 

The bereavement side of things is going to be tough regardless. Only you know whether having a little miracle inside you would help you with that, or whether not having it after a BFN would make it harder. That's probably the toughest call.

In your situation I'm pretty sure I'd go for it. But that's me, and this really is something only you can decide. Trust your instincts. They know.

Love and light,

Gina. x


----------



## southern_angel

Thank you Lottie and Gina  

I've thought about it endlessless and decided (for today at least) that I'm going to wait until January as originally planned. Next weekend just feels like it would all be a big rush (we still have to sign/have contracts witnessed) and although I'm desperate to start trying, I don't think it's right for me to rush in. 

I also feel (partly because of the bereavement) that I don't want my mum to have to go through the 2WW / very early pregnancy anxiety with me, and I think she'd guess. As my counsellor pointed out today - if (when  ) I'm lucky enough to conceive, anyone who knows me well will be able to tell (what she said was that people would say  'why is A walking 3 feet off the floor?'!). 

So I'm going to wait... I think that feels ok, maybe! Plus it will give me a bit longer to work on my pre-ttc 'life laundry' (moving to more healthy living, serious financial overhaul, talking to people about plans, etc). 

A x


----------



## jemima_mum

Bizarrely I think we may have found our donor for when we decide that we can start TTC properly...and without really trying!

He is a very good friend of DP and is just perfect...lovely man and happy to let us be Mummies and have contact but doesn't want to have an active parenting role but will make a great "daddy"

Too tired to really go into detail...I'm in Cardiff holed up in a hotel (sans DP ) as I am at the UNISON LGB conference....great hotel but wish DP could share it with me...she is home and mildly ill too which doesn't help!

mima xxx


----------



## nismat

Mima - how wonderful (the donor bit of course!)


----------



## Misspie

Congrats on the donor! xx


----------



## jemima_mum

Cheers ladies...

Long way off til we actually put our plan into practice but it is nice to know we have one bit covered (sort of)!

Suffering with a red wine induced headache this morning...conference is bad for ones health it would seem! Off for the opening statements and the first debates.

Big hugs to all 

m xxx


----------



## southern_angel

Quick update - I changed my mind about 100 times over the 10 days but decided to go for this cycle after all, and so have gone ahead and done my first 2 insems (Mon 30th and Tues 1st). 

How did the rest of you find the actual process of DIY inseminations? I tried to make it meaningful (so I had candles and things) but I found the whole thing really quite weird. I've never had sex with a man so dealing with sperm was completely new for me, and I found the physicality of it difficult - I was trying to feel positive about what I was doing (and I do feel positive about the choices I've made in terms of KD etc.) but it felt very strange to put something I found so alien into my body. I really didn't like the feel of it being in me (or running out of me, yuck!). 

I'm sure if I am amazingly lucky and conceive this time then it won't matter, but the thought of doing that every month for a while is freaking me out a bit, will it get easier? I'm worried that thus far I've tried to really trust my instincts, but my instincts definitely weren't convinced yesterday... It was also quite hard doing it on my own, again, although I feel positive about the decisions I've made to do that, the practicalities were a bit lonely :-( 

Funny how I can have spent so long thinking about all of this and then when it actually gets down to being real I'm thrown into a complete tailspin.

Anyway, 2ww now. There is a lot going on (big family event this weekend for starters) so hopefully I won't get too obsessed (ha!).


----------



## TwoBumps

Hi Angel,
Welcome to ur 1st 2ww!! Don't worry about the 'process'... you will get used to it! If ur very lucky it might be the first and last time you do it!!
I've also joined you on the 2ww, I had my 1st insem from our new donor last night. Everything went smoothly and the timing was good so we've got our fingers crossed now. We will test on 16th Dec if a/f hasn't shown by then  
Lottie x


----------



## snagglepat

Angel and Lottie, good luck to both of you for this 2ww.

Angel, it is an extremely strange thing to do and it must be harder having to do it on your own. It's not pleasant - and that's coming from someone who has had relationships with men, and happily. The sensation of it 'escaping' afterwards is very icky, and I find the smell over the next 24 hours or so as the ongoing slight trickle out continues is very off-putting. However, it does get more matter of fact after a while, and you find ways of managing it that feel more comfortable. I'm struggling to find ways to articulate how I get through it but I know that I actively avoid thinking about what the stuff is and where it's come from and focus much more on it being an action that opens a door to a possible miracle happening inside me, to the creation of my/our child, and of the whole thing having very little to do with the donor. 

Really, the best of luck to both of you. 

In our news my period is now 5 weeks late. My body has completely shut down. There's nothing to do other than wait for the next consultant appointment to see what we can do to get me to ovulate at all. *sigh*

Gina. x

Gina x


----------



## southern_angel

Thank you both, it’s reassuring to hear that I’m not the only one who found it really weird! 

I wondered if it would be easier if you’d had relationships with men before, but I guess not! I did feel that if it had been sperm from someone I was closer to then it might have felt different – but that might just be me projecting disappointment that it hasn’t worked out with my friend (who I finally talked with last week and we both agreed it would be too fraught with potential difficulty for him to be the donor – he’s married and doesn’t think his wife would agree).

Like you Gina, I tried not to think about what it was etc. I was completely grossed out by the smell and obsessed about whether I smelled different afterwards. I used an instead cup after the second insem (which was early in the morning) because I had to go to work. That helped because there wasn’t that horrid feeling of it running out of me, although I was worried about whether the sperm would get to the right place. I think I ovulated later that day (probably in the evening) so hopefully the sperm from the insem the night before with have already been there and waiting anyway! If I have to do it again I will try to think of other ways to make it easier. I think being on my own made it harder because I had to deal with my donor on my own, it might have felt less awkward if there was someone else there for that bit. I spoke to someone at the weekend who also used a KD and she had made sure she had a friend with her - I might think about doing that. 

When do you see your consultant again Gina? Must be really frustrating :-( Am thinking of you.

A


----------



## snagglepat

Half way through the 2ww now Angel. How are you holding up?

And you Lottie?

We're still waiting for a date fr the appointment. It's frustrating, but there's nothing we can do until the NHS decide we're worthy of another five minutes with their consultant. When this happened when we were trying for DD our GP upped the meds for me and we were back on track inside a month. Now we've a new GP and new protocols and we're left just waiting. Oh well, we'll get there eventually if we're meant to.

Gina. x


----------



## southern_angel

snagglepat said:


> Half way through the 2ww now Angel. How are you holding up?


Bit bonkers, but okay-ish


----------



## TwoBumps

Hiya!
We're holding up ok thanks, this is my 1st attempt with our new donor and it feels kinda exciting! I feel like since we've started ttc with him we've re-gained our optimism after all the knocks we've had over the last few years of ttc. Sadly though, my DW is unable to have an attempt this month (she should have ovulated today/ tomorrow) as our donor is working away - she's taking solace in the fact that at least she'll be able to join in with the alcohol during all the festivities leading up to Christmas! And we're also hoping that I _wont _ be able to participate, ha ha!

How much symptom checking have you been doing angelmine?? I felt nauseous yesterday morning (only for 5 or so minutes) and then had a wave of it again this morning. It's ridiculous, I know that it would be far too early to be experiencing nausea yet, but I just can't stop myself hoping its a sign, lol!

Gina, sorry you're still waiting for a/f _and _ your appointment hun  It's annoying how different GP's can refuse to 'allow' what a previous GP has agreed to. We've experienced that in the past too & found it incredibly frustrating, especially when you know it would most probably be what you need! Grrr! I really hope it's sorted for you soon so you can get back on with your 2nd ttc journey.

Lottie x


----------



## southern_angel

LottieMaz said:


> How much symptom checking have you been doing angelmine?? I felt nauseous yesterday morning (only for 5 or so minutes) and then had a wave of it again this morning. It's ridiculous, I know that it would be far too early to be experiencing nausea yet, but I just can't stop myself hoping its a sign, lol!


I'm a little bit obsessed with symptom spotting! Currently I have: Bloating (actually that has worn off in the last 24 hours but was pretty constant from Ov day until yesterday evening), general sensitivity / fragility (not sure how much more than normal, I generally take EPO to stay sane-ish, but haven't since Ov day), appetite up and down and some things have tasted weird (appletise and actual apples). Oh, and really disconcertingly, I dreamt about having sex with a man last night! BBT still consistently high, my temps look less variable than on my previous charts but there hasn't been an implantion dip or a third phase in temps yet.

So who knows, it could all be in my head!!!


----------



## lesbo_mum

Sorry to gatecrash but i need some help as i've got myself into a situation  

I may have found a donor through a website

Basically a long while a go i posted onto a site searching for a donor... someone i know via ******** who knows a friend of a friend recommended the site. Today a man contacted me who is very local to us and i emailed him back saying thanks for his email and that we're still looking at options. I mentioned to him that louise is really against finding our own donor and he replied a really nice in depth response and attached some pics of his little boy.

Also during our back and forwards conversation he mentioned he helped a local lesbian couple who now have a 15 month old daughter... i have a funny feeling this is the person i know!!!!! I have no problem with this as if we did use him it would at least make me feel he is trust worthy...

However i have not spoken to Louise about this yet and i know full well she is going to say no as for her knowing the donor would make it too weird for her, but to me its really important for our child to be able ot trace there origins.

Also to add to the confusion we were considering using fertility 1st again after getting my tubes checked and he is registered with fertility 1st and is on my pool donor list i think... he is the only donor in my local area everyone else is over a hour away... Louise wants to use him if we use fertility 1st so surely why should we pay for him via fertility 1st when he is offering his services free!

Anyone have any idea how i can talk to Lou about this i'm so confused now

We were going to go straight to IVF but realistically money is a issue if it didnt work we wouldnt be able to try again for a long time.

Em x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

***** mum I can't help you on this one but I really hope that things work out
L x


----------



## TwoBumps

Hi Em,
Sorry, just seen your post! How have you got on? Have you managed to talk about this with Louise yet?
I can really see your point of view if you were considering returning to Fertility 1st if he is indeed the same donor you would have used. However, I can also see why it may be important for Louise that the donor you choose is completely anonymous to you, particularly if he lives locally to you and that you may have already identified who he is & maybe even a baby he has helped create.
Whatever you decide, it's essential that you are both completely honest with each other about your feelings towards this and totally happy with the route you choose together. What may be the right way forwards for one couple may not be the best for another.
Good luck for working this through x


----------



## southern_angel

Hi Em,

Sorry, I missed this too or would have replied earlier. Have you had time to talk to Lou yet?

Do you know the other couple that he's helped? I wonder if you and L could potentially talk to them about their experience (not necessarily about their donor, although if you do want to consider going ahead with him then that too - I spoke to one of the other women that my KD had helped and it was a really useful thing to do)? It might help give you an opening to talk through some of the issues?

I have to say I agree utterly with Lottie here:



LottieMaz said:


> Whatever you decide, it's essential that you are both completely honest with each other about your feelings towards this and totally happy with the route you choose together.


I hope you manage to have some good conversations over the break, 
Take care
A x


----------



## lesbo_mum

Hi

Thanks for the replys sorry about the late reply been dead busy with Xmas.

I spoke to Louise about it and as i thought went down like a lead balloon... We've decided to postpone out appointment with Dr Chui until April/ May and use fertility 1st (but a diff donor!) in the meantime... if after that no BFP we'll go for IVF...

Thanks for your support... i know i change my mine so bloody often its stupid..

Em x


----------



## Pinktink

Hi Em,

I am really against fertility 1st as I don't believe that something so important should come from an unlicensed company - you just have to take their word for it that the donors are checked properly, and that what you are getting is good sperm. I guess you guys have to go with whatever feels right for you - just out of interest though, if your children having the ability to trace their origins is important to you and anonymity is important to Lou - wouldn't you be better to use sperm from a clinic so that in 18 yrs the children can trace their donor if they choose but the donor is not involved so Lou is comfortable - just a thought.

I hope whatever you guys choose gets you a 2010 baby 

Lynn
xxx


----------



## lesbo_mum

Yes but cost is also a big big issue isnt it


----------



## lucky2010

Em, I know what you mean about cost... That was a big part of the reason we decided to use a known donor... Stressful decisions!

Well, my cycle officially started today so next thurs and fri for insems... We have everything crossed while trying not to get our hopes up too high!!

Hope everyone has a good new year celebration.

Rach


----------



## Pinktink

lesbo_mum said:


> Yes but cost is also a big big issue isnt it


I agree hun - the money side of things is really hard, treatment is so expensive.

However, I still wouldn't risk my health by using fertility 1st  you just don't know what you are getting.


----------



## lmb15

Em - just wondering if you're still considering egg share of if you've discounted it? That'll make IVF much cheaper, and is more successful than IUI.
Good luck with the weight loss - treatment will be much more successful when it's down below 30, whatever you decide to do.
Lisa x


----------



## southern_angel

Hello all,

Thought I'd resurrect this thread as I sit in my hotel room (free wireless  ) waiting for my donor to finish work so I can have my second attempt at ttc... 

I'm feeling a bit calmer about it than I did the first time, I think the enforced break last cycle (when he was away) was probably quite a good thing; despite feeling very disappointed at the time I think it's given me more of an opportunity to regroup. I'm still not feeling great about the process, but I feel a little bit more in control this time (or at least that I know how it works). 

LH surge showing today (faint line at 10am, strong by 3pm) and I'm insemming at about 9pm tonight and then (hopefully!) 6.30 tomorrow morning so hopefully I'll catch ovulation... 

*Fingers crossed*


----------



## lesbo_mum

good luck for this cycle angelmine


----------



## lucky2010

Good luck angel x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

Good Luck angel, does he bring the same with him? I remember in the begining when my donor and his partner used to disappear upstairs and leave the sample on the bedside table for me, but then we got used to it
L x


----------



## southern_angel

Thanks for well wishes all  I'm home now, tired but ok. Second insem was at 4am (story to follow!!!) so I had about 4 hours sleep before a long day at work (had to leave London very early). 

JJ1, yes - I stay in a hotel near him so he arrives with the sperm. I find the idea of him doing that in 'my space' really uncomfortable so it works better that way. Although is not without its akwardness  

It might get easier, but I'm     that it will work quickly so I won't have to get too used to it!


----------



## TwoBumps

Fingers crossed for 2nd time lucky Angelmine  
Your donor must be very committed to this to be giving you a sample at 4am!! Good luck x


----------



## southern_angel

Thanks Lottie,

_Your donor must be very committed to this to be giving you a sample at 4am!! _

Apparently he'd just woken up then (we'd agreed that if he woke up in time to donate at 6ish then we'd do a second insem but were assuming it wouldn't be possible) so thought he'd pop round! I was more than a little surprised by the time - as in my other post!!!

Your recent amazing success is giving me hope...

Angel


----------



## TwoBumps

Brilliant, it's great that you got to remain lying down for another few hours afterwards too! I've just read your other post (sorry, I'd missed it before) and I'm sure it will be fine. As you say, it had been kept at your body temperature so all should be well.
I'm really glad that our success is giving you (and others) hope, I used to read success stories to keep me going but never imagined for one minute that we would end up being one of them!!
It just goes to show that you really never know what is around the corner  
Got everything crossed for you x


----------



## snagglepat

Angel, I'm crossing all possible extremities for you. It sounds as though the minor drama shouldn't have made too much of a dint on your chances with those timings though.

Goodluck!

Gina. x


----------



## southern_angel

Thanks *Lottie* and *Gina,*

I've had a clear thermal shift in BBT this morning so am feeling positive about the timing if not the method!!! Planning a very quiet day today, gentle walk with the dog and lunch with a good friend...

Then on with crossed fingers for the dreaded


----------



## jellybean123

Hi there!

Me and my partner are trying for our first baby using a known donor (who will have no contact). We just insem'ed on tues and wed and I'm pretty sure I ov'ed on wed evening (I get ov pain :-(). So now we are in the delightful 2ww and I can't help but feel excited and nervous! I'm sure I'll get used to it after the 4th or 5th try!!

Looking forward to chatting with others like us!


----------



## southern_angel

Hi Jellybean  

We're on the same 2WW - I'm 1DPO too! There is a 2WW board on here that I'm sure I'll be posting on lots (or at least I did last time!).  

Wishing you lots of luck with yours  

Angel


----------



## snagglepat

Hi Guys,

I'm reinvigorating this thread as it feels like the best place to post about my current mini dilema.

I've been a bit quiet of late as things have been in limbo here. The Metformin hasn't really been working for me this time but it was only at our consultant appointment in Feb that we learned that it could be because my BMI is greater this time and it can be quite hit and miss for those with a BMI of over 35. That started me on a weight loss kick and I'm 10lb down so far.  Then last week I got a period only 8 weeks after my last one - which is a step in the right direction. For the first time I started to think that it might be beginning to work for me again.

When I used to have regular cycles they were 33-35 days long with ovulation on about day 20, although the cycle I got pregnant on last time was a textbook 28 day one with OV on day 14. I haven't really been monitoring my fertile signs much because I thought we had another few months to go before things would have stabilised enough to try again - if we were that lucky. However yesterday and this morning there's been no way of ignoring the tons of fertile mucus I've suddenly started producing. Out of curiosity I tried an OPK this morning and it was positive. Out of nowhere my body seems to be telling me it's fertile. Right now.

So here's the dilema. We've had a pretty tough few months here, with two family emergencies (my Nan being taking into emergency and quickly permanent residential care and my aunt having a very serious stroke which has left her very disabled) and a toddler that has discovered the art of tantrumming and is determined to hone her skills to an expert level. We're financially strapped as we continue to adjust to a hefty new mortgage and a 200 year old house that keeps surprising us with its maintenance needs. Add to that the fact that I started a new job which, two months in I've handed in my notice on due to the evening and weekend work being too much of a strain on us as a family to be worth the pittance of pay it was bringing in. It's been a tough few months really.

We've been running hot and cold on the idea of a second child again - mostly due to all the stress I'm sure but in the few moments we've talked about it we've figured we'd get warm on the idea again once things had calmed down a little, but we were in agreement that we had enough on our plates right now.

And now I seem to be fertile again out of the blue. Al my instincts are yelling at me to get on the blower to our donor, get him over here this evening (assuming he's even in the country which is never a given with no notice) and to give it a go. We know there's no guarantee it would work but the opportunities seem so few and far between at the moment that it seems daft to waste an opportunity. But we're in the middle of chaos here, although it does seem to be beginning to ease, and we'd got our heads round the idea of not trying for several more months. When I told Rae I was apparently fertile again this morning she had a look of panic on her face so I'm guessing she's not so keen, although we haven't had a chance to speak about it yet and she won't be home until 7 tonight. 

So there's the dilema. Do I push for us to try this month (assuming our donor is available) or do I back off, avoid putting anything else on our plates and wait until the next opportunity? 

I guess we need to decide by the end of today... Any words of wisdom?

Gina. x


----------



## pem

Gina - My advice for what it is worth is to go for it, we iffed and jiffed about ttc, waiting for the right time etc etc etc and i wish we had just gone for it earlier as then we wouldn't still be here now still bashing away......my nan always said 'there is never a right time for a baby' and she is so so so right...we got edie in the last year of my PhD, DP was changing her job, we had no money but it all worked out fantastically....if you are fertile and you 'feel' the time is right, i would say you can't waste the opportunity, you will only think 'what if' and 'i wish we had tried' if you don't....clearly Rae has got to be with you on this but if she is anything like my DP she is probably only concerned about the impact any BFN's or other traumas would have upon you while you are still bearing under the weight of other issues...me and DP have had a few words about this FET cycle...she worries about me terribly but we are going ahead, embie is coming home to mummy on monday.

I really hope you can resolve this and if you do decide to go for it and your donor is up for it....hoping for a BFP for you..loads of     for your decision and any outcome....

pem x


----------



## lucky2010

Hi Gina, I would definitely agree with emma and also add that We have tried at the 'right' time for 5 cycles and still no bfp so I wouldn't waste one cycle where there is a chance to go ahead. 

Sorry about all your bad news. Good luck with whatever you decide and keep us posted!

Rach x


----------



## lmb15

gina - i'm in agreement, i'd definitely go for it. You don't want to regret not giving it a go, if over the next few months you fail to ovulate again. Hopefully this isn't a one off ovulation, and your body is back on track, but if it is a one off it would be a real shame not to take advantage. It may work, it may not, but at least you'll have given it a go. 
And just think, if it does work, there's another 8 months or so till the baby's born to get other things back on track ie work/finances etc. 
There really isn't a "right time" to have a baby. Things will always crop up out of the blue.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

Lisa x


----------



## snagglepat

Well I just spoke to our donor who is available and could come down this evening if we wanted him to. I just wish I could talk to Rae about it before 7pm this evening but she's training all day. I can already feel twinges so am guessing I'll ovulate at some point this evening.

I'm definitely pro trying, I just need to get Rae on track. I've got a few free hours now so I'm going to clean the house and make a lovely dinner for us, and then try to get Ember to bed before she gets home so we can have some quiet time to discuss it. There's nothing like a romantic evening in to make you decide you don't want to have another one for several years once a new baby arrives...

Any meal suggestions? Something I can have ready and sitting in the oven while I try to get a two year old to go to sleep? I'm off to google for ideas now. 

Gina. x


----------



## Benetton

Hi Gina, 

WOW what a stressful time for you honey, really sorry to hear of all that stress, personally I would'nt. If it was something my DP and I spoke about and agreed on, I would stick to that then at least we were together on the decision, it seems short notice after the initial idea to put it off for a while to go ahead now and as you said things are easing up a  bit but you thought you registered Panic from your DP.

Yes It may not work anyway but what if it does, are you ok with things to not be too stressed out to handle it?... Go with your heart/gut honey, not your body clock on this one is my humble advice, I dont know you or much of your story so take my advice for what it may be worth   .... I too wish you the best of luck whatever you decide, take comfort that whatever you decide that it was meant to be that way and you will cope, as lmb15 said there will never be a "right" time.... 

Good luck x


----------



## Benetton

Us too.

Met our gay and CP'd KD 5 years ago via formerly known Rainbow Network, we both posted an advert online....
Home insem didnt work due to complications on my side so at IVF stage now.

I am so delighted and blessed to have had him stick with us for all these years, months of not hearing anything from us whilst I went through two surgeries and he is still there at a drop of a hat, he helps with everything and is happy to let us call the shots, we have already agreed involvement.. so we felt comfortable having him co-parent. We have already drafted an agreement waiting to be finalised by a solicitor.


----------



## southern_angel

Hey Gina,

Checking in a bit late in the day to offer advice here, but I wanted to let you know that I'm thinking of you and hoping that whatever you and Rae decide this evening feels congruent and okay for where you are...

I'd be finding it a difficult decision too - you might remember that I was very unsure about trying in December because things were pretty tough for me then, but looking back I was glad that I had - it was good to feel that I was starting to move my life forward from a very sad place. I'm also (mostly) glad that I've taken a break this time, so it really is very much an in-the-moment decision.

If I'd been able to comment earlier I'd also have linked you to this recipe for celeriac dauphinoise (http://www.abelandcole.co.uk/recipes/celeriac#recipe6) which is a rather lovely (and currently seasonal) 'special' dish (I make it without bacon because I don't eat meat) which will happily sit in the oven for a while.

Sending lots of , whatever you decide will be right...
A x


----------



## TwoBumps

Hope your romantic meal worked it's magic Gina... let us know what you both decided!!!  
x


----------



## snagglepat

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback folks. We didn't inseminate in the end. Rae came in having had a really horrific day at work and just couldn't contemplate adding anything else in to the mix last night. It did result in some good discussions - we haven't talked about it all very much recently due to feeing we were going to be in limbo for a while longer. Now we have and it'll be on the table more often so that hopefully next month (or whenever my body plays ball again) we'll be ready to jump with it.

I'm disappointed but at the end of the day if we had ended up trying and we had succeeded, I'd have always remembered that conception happened under stressful circumstances and I want any child we have to be wanted, welcomed and given the attention they deserve right from the word go. Plus if we had conceived the baby would have been due within a week of christmas which I guess is never ideal. 

I'm now wincing with ovulation pain so it really is working this time, on CD11. How bizarre!

Thanks guys!

Gina. x


----------



## starrysky

Gina

I feel sure this is a start of a new run of fertility for you...    

We are also in the number two child limbo at the moment, waiting to hear from clinic if Jo will need surgery before trying again

Heather x


----------



## Benetton

Gina 
Well done for making such a hard decision, I will have my fingers crossed for you that your body plays ball again very soon. Well done for having the chat and clearing things up.

Benett x


----------



## lucky2010

HI Guys,

A bit of timing advice please... We can't try this month due to donor being away at a conference but I've been monitoring to get ready for next month. I got my 'peak' on my fertility monitor today (CD12), which is the same as a +ve opk, the only thing is I think this would be too late to try. I had EWCM yesterday and the day before and I have ovulation pains today. Next month we are due to try on CD12 and CD13 (am and pm on CD12 and am on CD13) as the donor can't do weekends and CD12 is a Monday.

After that long-winded explanation what I really want to know is if inseminating on the day of ovulation is too late or if it would still be possible to conceive? I feel like a total novice at this as my luteal phase has gone shorter since the last time we conceived and I'm no longer a first time lucky girl! Can't face too many more BFN's :-(

Any advice appreciated.

Rach x


----------



## pem

Rach ..I would think the day of ovulation would be ok...if you are getting your +opk on CD12..then you will ovulate on day 13 won't you??  So days 12 and 13 sound perfect..we always insemmed on days opk+ day and the day after. 

Have you thought about getting Ju to have  a 'look up there', Donna had this fantastic job for me and could really tell when my 'fertile time' started.we used a headtorch and a plastic speculum off the web. My Os used to really open up and you could really see the fertile mucus (sorry TMI!). My luteal phase went shorte after Edie, isn't it annoying...hope you go on well with it in May....    and


----------



## snagglepat

I don't think it would be too late either. Our goal is always to insem on the day before and the day of ovulation. This time our donor only wants to do once per cycle so we're trying to work out which would be better but the of ovulation is definitely up there in the running as our ideal perfect time.

Boo to shortening luteal phases. What a pain! Mine still seems to be 14 days on the nose which having read your story I'm very happy about. I hadn't realised it had the potential to change much. I've heard good things about the head torch and speculum approach and there are some fabulous photos out there of what the cervix looks like at different times in the cycle. I don't think Rae would be quite up for that yet, but give us another few months and you never know...

Good luck Rach, you never know, you might go over a day this cycle anyway and then it won't be an issue. 

Gina. x


----------



## lucky2010

thanks guys,

I know it seems like it's be the ideal time, I just feel my ewcm is less today than yesterday and CD11 and 12 would've been better.... we have been doing anything from 9+10 (too early) 10+11 and 11+12 so far with no success so I guess we can but try 12+13.... I'm becoming much more of a believer in what'll be will be since our 5 BFN's, we were so very lucky to get pregnant first time with Alex and I'm sure it will happen when my body is good and ready!

Julie doing a stretch and sweep for me (after I'd already had one) has traumatised her for life so I don't think she'd be up for the head torch malarkey!!!!

I'll be on the 2ww when we come to the meet!

thanks again,

Rach x


----------



## pem

Wish we were doing the KD route....i'll be 'downregging' probably at the meet...bleurgh. Sadly Edie's dad cannot donate to us anymore, he feels he cannot cope with the seperation from another child, he really struggles with Edie...he see's her roughly every two months and it does upset him when he has to leave, he had no idea how he would feel and he lives about 1 1/2 hours from us....  Funny situation really.....she gets on really well with him though. But, I won't be the only woman in the UK with 2 kids from different dads...lol. It has worried us though, the whole situation, we just really hope that our love will be enough to give stability to the situation....phew i am rambling away here.....Edie is splatting orange segments all over the kitchen table... 

Rach - I really hope that #6 is your time, it is a long hard road, i am coming to the end of my line i think.....

 to gina and  loadsa     for this cycle...hopefully we'll all be pregnant together and having lovely spring babies....


----------



## lucky2010

Emma    It must be so hard not being able to use Edie's Dad again... do you think he'd reconsider or is that the final thought on the matter? Is he in a relationship/ does he have any children? Forgive me if I should already know this! hoping next try is a success for all of us... spring babies would be lovely... in fact any baby would be lovely!!!

6th time lucky... I hope so too!!

Off to chop 350 words from an assignment that is due in tomorrow... last minute... me?! Oh... and I have a job interview on Thursday hat I have to do a powerpoint presentation for and I have done one slide.... aaarrrrgggghhh super stress, maybe it's a good thing we're not trying this month!!

thanks and hugs,

Rach xx


----------



## snagglepat

I'm definitely up for being in the spring baby club. I'm (im)patiently waiting for my ewcm to kick in properly so we can get inseminating. Our donor is away over the weekend so if it doesn't arrive in the next day or two then we'll be scuppered for this month. Fingers crossed!

It must be really tough having to go with another donor and a different set-up for a second child. I can't imagine how hard it must be for Edie's donor if his feelings are so strong. I don't think anything can prepare you for the love you have for a child once it arrives, although it is true that some people seem to avoid it. Our donor seems really quite indifferent about the many children he has helped to create, apart from those he's a dad to - not in any callous uncaring way, but in a genuine 'that's not my child' way. I guess it takes all sorts. I still hope to be an egg donor one day, but I know now I couldn't be a known donor for those reasons. I don't know if I could help forming an attachment that would just be painful and difficult for all involved, however good my intentions. So I can understand where he's coming from on that front.

I'm sure you're right on the 'love will see you through'. It will. 

Gina. x


----------



## snagglepat

EWCM arrived today! I'm just waiting to hear back from our donor to see if he's available tonight. Our first 2ww for 6 months might be about to start! *Excited*

Gina. x


----------



## duff

Oo I hope so Gina!


----------



## pem

loads of     gina x


----------



## Misspie

Good luck Gina
xx


----------



## Battenberry

Great news Gina, good luck! X


----------



## snagglepat

Thanks for the good wishes folks!

Right, the deed is done! It was the most bizarre insemination experience to date though. 

Once Ember goes to sleep she almost never wakes before 1-2am, but wouldn't you know she not only woke up just as our donor went into the guest room to make his donation last night, but she was really out of sorts and we just couldn't get her off to sleep again. In the end, Rae ended up inseminating me whilst I lay in our bed breastfeeding Ember and they then spent the rest of the night in each other's beds. So, no 'we're making a new baby' cuddles for us last night! One of the many joys of parenting I guess, but if we do get pregnant this cycle it'll be a fantastically embarrassing story to share with Ember when she's older. 

Gina. x


----------



## lucky2010

good luck Gina!!! have everything crossed for you x


----------



## pem

Fab gina - it will be a terrifically embarassing story.....  

Rach - he is married and they have a baby on the way...he was single when we began ttc....hope the interview went ok yesterday!


----------



## lmb15

Gina - what a brilliant insem story   !!! Best of luck    

Lisa x


----------



## lucky2010

Good luck lisa!

I got the job thanks, what a relief! Xxx


----------



## southern_angel

Hi all,

I'm back again after a bit of a break. On CD10 now and planning to insem on Sat (CD13) as KD is going away on Sat eve. Hopefully I'll ovulate the eve of CD14 which is 'normal' for me but who knows - ttc seems to throw everything out of step. I'm disappointed about the timing but hoping that it's still worth trying early. I'm starting to feel like ov is building (libido reappeared today, partly thanks to a rather lovely woman I saw when I walked this morning!) so hopefully it won't be late... 

Angel


----------



## welshginge

Welcome back Angelmine!!


----------



## TwoBumps

Good luck Angelmine... It's always better to insem earlier rather than later! Glad ur back on the ttc road! x


----------



## lucky2010

Hi angel. Good luck with this month. We're starting again this month, only cd2 today and insemming cd's 12+13. trying not to think about it too much!

Keep us posted!

Rach x


----------



## snagglepat

Good luck Angel. I'm definitely on the 'earlier rather than later' side as well. I'm sure the timing will be fine.

And good luck to you Rach as well. 

Gina. x


----------



## southern_angel

Thank you for the welcomes, it's nice to be back   

Things looking ok here, no LH surge yet but CM is moving in the right direction (I've been taking EPO, I think it's helping). It's a bit less stressful than normal because of knowing that it will be tomorrow afternoon rather than just at some point over the weekend - it's easier to sort things out with more notice. I've arranged to insem at a friends place rather than in a hotel, hopefully I'll be more relaxed that way. 

How long can sperm survive outside the body? I think I've read that up to an hour is fine, but I can't find that now. Before the longest has been about half an hour (tucked in my bra as I raced down the motorway!), but I'll be looking at a 45 min journey with it tomorrow, is that going to be ok? Also the advice on keeping it at body temp seems to be conflicting, is it better to just leave it at room temp (or tube temp - can't believe I am going to be carrying sperm on the tube!!!).

Any advice greatly appreciated
Angel


----------



## snagglepat

I can't find the source either, but I know I've read in more than one place that up to an hour is fine - even clinics are happy for chaps to make their donation/sample at home and bring it in as long as it takes less than an hour.

As for temperature, I'd guess cooler would be better than warmer due to the whole 'keeping testicles cool' thing, not to mention the fact that sperm can be frozen and still do its thing. However, this is all assumption on my part. We only ever left it at room temperature and the longest we left it was maybe half an hour. It was about that this time and it obviously wasn't a problem. One of our donor's other recipients drove for an hour with his donation nestled between her breasts, inserted it once at home and conceived triplets naturally! So I wouldn't worry too much - wherever it feels safest I guess!

Good luck!

Gina. x


----------



## pem

we have left it for up to an hour....and we used the nestled between the breasts...inbetween the legs approach...it will be fine..its bloomin tough stuff...must be... the human race has been around long enough...lol


----------



## TwoBumps

We've also left it for up to an hour, nestled between the boobs!


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

I've read 1-2 hours, and to leave it at least 20 mins. I used to go to my donor's house (a friend) and he would leave it on my bedside locker for me so room temp

L x


----------



## southern_angel

Quick update - all went fairly smoothly yesterday. 

I managed to make the journey pretty quickly so I insemed within 45 mins of collecting it, hopefully that will be ok. I kept the pot in my bag (clutching it carefully on my lap!) so room-ish temp. Doing the insem at my friends was infinitely nicer than in a hotel room, afterwards she came and we chatted while I lay with my bum on pillows - surreal but lovely! It made me think about how different the process must be with a partner, but also to realise that I don't have to do it completely on my own either. 

Only funny bit (for the book I'll write someday!) apart from travelling on the tube with sperm was that when KD went off to donate at home, I waited in a cafe where I ordered a late lunch (I thought I'd have a while, he had said maybe an hour). Inevitably just as my asparagus (which looked fabulous) arrived, KD phoned and said he was ready already! So I had to abandon lunch and dash off to meet him. The waiter must have thought I was bonkers! 

Keeping everything crossed now, temp dipped today so I hope it will rise tomorrow indicating ov later today. Hopefully the little   will be waiting for it   

Angel


----------



## pem

Good luck angel....Our donor was super speedy too...tmi lol


----------



## lucky2010

Hi guys,

this is definitely a post for this section.... We were to meet our known donor on Monday in a hotel for a donation, stay overnight and meet him again for donation #2 in the morning. He now can't make Tuesday. We're going to try and check in to the hotel early on Monday and fit in two donations over the day. If they won't let us check in early I think we're going to have to do a less than comfortable donation/ insem in the morning and a more comfortable ,us in the bar him in the bedroom insem later on... Oh the joys!!! I'm a bit disappointed not to be having Monday and Tues ... But I guess Gina is testimony to the fact that it only takes one!!

Wish us luck! Xx


----------



## southern_angel

Good luck Rach! 

I'm taking strength from Gina's success - I only had one shot this month (and it was a bit early) but that evidently *can* work, so fingers crossed... 

Angel


----------



## snagglepat

I'm glad our story can give the rest of you hope. We're still rather stunned about it ourselves. Good luck Angel and Rach! 

Gina. x


----------



## lucky2010

quick question guys. 


My LH surge is usually on CD12. Our donor can't donate at weekends and the 21st June a Monday is the next date we could try. This would be CD13 in my Cycle as my period has just shown up a day early. Do you think we should bother going this cycle as it will be about 24hrs after LH surge that we inseminate.... We tend to err on the side of inseminating day before or day of LH surge but have never tried after... what does everyone think??


Rach x


----------



## pem

Rach - just had a lengthy gander through my posts and it would seem that when we concieved Edie, we inseminated the day after LH surge and the next two days....We have never inseminated before my LH surge, it just wasn't reliable enough, my surge was and still is..erratic...i would have a go if i was you...Mrs Eggie is said to be on her way 24 hours after the surge so you may well meet her! Really hope so Rach....


----------



## lucky2010

thanks emma,


just waiting for an email from donor to let us know if he can do that day... if he can it's all systems go!! I do appreciate you replying... Having a slightly mad day on my own at home. Think I might go and garden in the rain to distract myself! Did the butternut squash survive?!


Rach xxxxx


----------



## pem

the squash is in the greenhouse thriving, it has a good second set of leaves, how are yours doing??

...i would definitely reccomend gardening in the rain, very therapeutic and productive not to mention distracting. I have cleaned and cleared and tidied and organised everything in an attempt to take my mind off this IVF and it is working...


----------



## lucky2010

glad it's doing well... ours are too!


The parcel I was waiting for (my last excuse not to go out) has just arrived so I'm off out now!


Where are you up to now?


love x


----------



## pem

we are on day 6 of stims, scan tomorrow to see how follies are developing...hopefully should be going for EC around 16th june then transfer 5days later, don't feel particularly positive and am determined to not get hopes up..we shall see..have a good afternoon out...


----------



## lucky2010

well my hopes are up for you... not too long to wait. If you have transfer on the 21st ish of June we'll be on the 2ww together... March babies here we come!!


xx


----------



## pem

can't beat a Spring baby Rach...we have one already...they be great! We can worry and stress and deliberate and procrastinate together..quite looking forward to it now!


----------



## snagglepat

I'll keep my fingers crossed for March babies for you both.  

To go back to your last question Rach, do you monitor your mucus? That was the only fertile sign we used this time (LH surge tests don't work for me as I get positives from around days 10-20) and even though it seemed at the time that the timing was off, here we are. Based on our recent experiences and the fact that you're using fresh sperm I'd have said it would be better to try earlier than later, but Pem has nicely proven that what you're planning can work perfectly too. Sounds like you've got it sussed, but hey, why not throw a bit more confusion in the mix just for the hell of it...  

Oooh, squashes! The only squashes we're growing this year are courgettes and they don't seem to be happy. Most other things are thriving though, including the miraculous broad beans that survived being completely drowned by Ember on multiple occasions before we planted them out. I think we're still getting used to our soil here (never had to deal with sandy soil before) but we did plant the courgettes in loads of compost. Oh well. I know where to come at harvest time now when ours are rubbish.  

Best wishes,

Gina. x


----------



## pem

mucus here too........i truly detest opks..i am convinced they have it in for me...on my FET cycle i used them to confirm possible ovulation and used them solidly for 2 months and never got a line...hmmmm....I also swear by having a good look at your cervix....a bit grim for the other half i guess but donna got well used to having a 'gander' up there and confirming my fertile time...

Gina - isn't moving house a nightmare on the gardening front...we've only moved 1/2 a mile up the road but the soil, the weather, the temp has changed and i feel like a gardening novice all over again......mind you...our tatties are looking mighty fine and the earlies should be ready in a few weeks...yummy yummy in my tummy...(hopefully pregnant tummy..  ) .

Rach - whatever you go for hun, i just hope you get a BFP this time....


----------



## lucky2010

I do monitor my mucus and it corresponds with my positive opk. I normally most fertile the day of 'peak' and the day after... so I guess that'd be about right. Still waiting for a response from donor to see if he can do the 21st.... and trying to arrange nightmare chil;d and dog-care arrangements!!!


Our veg are growing well, especially the spuds, beetroot and garlic.... I don't really know how they're surviving will all the weeds that are taking over the plot. We have been away so much and so busy the weeding gets neglected... I did have a good go in the rain today though!!! I look forward to our first batch of new potatoes in a few weeks!!


thanks for helpful discussion guys, both fertility and veg!!!!


Rach xxx (who's just eaten home grown rhubarb crumble!!)


----------



## southern_angel

Hi all,

Could really use some advice... I'm on CD12 now, have just got a positive OPK test. I generally ovulate on CD14/15  so have booked a hotel/my donor etc. for Sunday night. That now looks too late.

So, I'm going to have a mad attempt to rearrange...  But, should I try and rearrange travelling / hotel for tomorrow, or tonight? I think my donor advises insemming the day after positive surge, but if I go tomorrow then I probably can't insem until the afternoon, then possibly Sunday morning as well. Is that too late? If I go tonight then I coulfd do this eve and possibly tomorrow morning... 

Help
Angel


----------



## TwoBumps

Just catching up with everyone & seen your post Angel... did you manage to re-arrange anything or did you go with your original plans? Good luck for your 2ww!
x


----------



## southern_angel

Hello,

I managed to rearrange and insemmed on Friday evening (CD12). Unfortunately my donor couldn't make the morning so I just had the one shot again this time. OKP was negative by yesterday morning so I'm hopeful that the timing was ok, although my BBT not massively up yet. 

Frustratingly I couldn't cancel the bookings for tonight so I've have to pay for both hotel rooms. 

So, let the 2WW madness begin...


----------



## lucky2010

Good luck Angel!

A question guys... How long do you think we should try before thinking about considering another donor? Julie is 17 yes older than me and I feel that time is tick tocking away. I am ovulating (according to fertility monitor) and have very regular cycles. Our donor had count and motility checked when we got pregnant with Alex... Could this have dramatically changed? Feeling frustrated and really want a 100%sibling... Sigh xx


----------



## southern_angel

Thanks Rach.

Could you ask your donor to have another SA done? I don't think it can change that quickly but it might give you a bit of reassurance and it's not that expensive (I think there is a clinic on Harley Street that does it for >£200). 

Sometimes I think this TTC game is at least partly about attitude/state of mind - my mum keeps telling me I need to relax! So, I think if you're worried about your donor's fertility then getting it checked out might help? 

Angel x


----------



## snagglepat

It's a tough question Rach, and one that only you can answer. As you know, it took quite a few cycles for us to conceive with our known donor. It was our 8th attempt with Rae with him when we got a BFP and miscarried (which was followed by one more BFN cycle before we stopped trying with her) then our 6th with me when we got pregnant with Ember, then second this time. We never asked him to get a SA done after the one we saw the results of when we first started trying with him, but it could be something to try. If you want to do some investigations you could always ask for a round of blood tests to check your hormone levels too.

I think I read somewhere that the average time for a woman with no fertility probs to conceive with AI (with good sperm) was 4 cycles. Given you managed to pull it off first time last time your overall stats are still above average. And if you're being average, your next cycle should be your BFP.  

If you feel the need you could always ask your GP for a referral to your local fertility unit. Our GP referred us after 6 BFNs because we were trying through AI and she appreciated the need for us to be sure all was working as it should be. There will undoubtedly be waiting lists so even if you get a referral it might be 3-6 months and you could well be pregnant in that time, but at least you'll have something to focus on if you do get another BFN. Or you could just try and take a chill pill and decide you'll give it another 3/6/whatever months and then take x course of action. When I was getting really anxious about the whole process I found the Natal Hypnotherapy 'prepare to conceive' CD really helpful to help me wind down and stay positive. Or you could decide to give acupuncture/dietary changes/reflexology a go, all of which some people swear by. (I'm positive that acupuncture helped us first time.)

There are lots of options. I guess you just need to decide whether the act of 'doing something' will help you to feel more relaxed and positive, or whether simply having an idea that within a particular time frame you'll undertake a plan if you're still not pregnant. That might be a change of donor but I suspect from your words that that's not really what you want. You know he can get you pregnant and that your genes combined make great kids. Perhaps another SA from him will be able to put your mind to rest on that front?

Good luck with it all.

Gina. x


----------



## lucky2010

thanks for comprehensive replies guys. we have a lot to discuss. Part of me thinks just feeling like we're doing something will help. Part of me thinks i'm being silly and it's not really that long anyway.... think Julie and I will have a chat about the options ...... will let you know xx


----------



## TwoBumps

for you Rach. TTC is soooo frustrating at times! It's the 'not knowing why' bit that got to me the most, even though it turned out there was no 'why' after all..! Fate had just decided that it was going to take time for us. I really hope it works out for you very, very soon xx


----------



## pem

Rach - sori for late reply, we had investigations done after our last BFN and the two mc...turns out we had a whopper of a polyp which has probably been the cause of some of our probs...anyway i guess what i am saying is, It can't hurt to get some tests done, then you can put your mind at rest and i think doing something does help....

loads of    hun...lets hope this time is a BFP and you won't have to do anything else...anyway i want us to both get a BFP this month so we can compare bumps and ms...         for us!


----------



## lucky2010

Right, we're all booked for donations x2 on Monday.... fingers crossed. 


Hope you're doing ok pem and the follies are coming along nicely!!!


Rach xxx


----------



## pem

Hey Rach...we have EC on friday so we will be on the good old 2ww together...thats if any of my eggs fertilise, we only have 3 good follies and one other dodgy character...so only 3 eggs possibly...quite frankly it wil be a miracle if we get pregnant this cycle...trying to stay positive but feeling a little despondent about it all.....loads of luck for monday, can't tell you how much i hope for you that this is the time for you guys....


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

pem wishing you loads of luckwith ec, as you knoq it only takes the miracle one!! ^fingercrossed^
x


----------



## lucky2010

Pem,


I have everything crossed for successful egg fertilisation for you!


It will also be a miracle if we get pregnant this cycle too.... after thinking Monday was CD13 and booking train to London, hotel in London, kennels, someone to have Alex I have noticed it is actually CD14. I usually peak (ie. LH surge) on CD12 and therefore ovulate on CD13 so Monday will just be too late. Today is CD10 and I am convinced I'm going to get a peak tomorrow CD11 which would be a disaster and a totally wasted trip. Julie is already ****** off at last minute trip to London and last minute arrangements so I am stressed to the max (let's hope it delays ovulation!). This is so hard and I just feel so sad and frustrated.... I'm so so so hoping I don't peak until Sunday but luck isn't on my side at the at the moment Oh F****


----------



## southern_angel

Rach. 

That is nearly exactly what I did this month (booked kennels, hotel etc for CD14) and then I surged early and had to rebook it all - and pay double   Is rearranging an option for you? Or perhaps the stress will keep ovulation away for another day! 

It is one of the particuliar stresses of using a KD I think - a while ago a friend (who knows I'm trying but not how) asked why I wasn't using a local fertility clinic instead of having the hassle of travelling and hotels etc... 

I hope it works out for you.   
Good luck for you too Pem, hope today goes smoothly and you get lots of eggies  

Angel (6DPO and still not too bonkers, what is going on?!?)


----------



## Steph29

Pem hope today went smoothly, fingers crossed for the 2ww


----------



## lucky2010

Pem, hope all went well xxxx


AFM, well I peaked this morning and cried at 6am before my 14hr shift! Julie managed to reschedule the hotel for next month and cancel one way of the train journey so only £75 wasted rather than £250! So all off for this month and looking to mid July for next try. Have had a horrid emotional day. Oh well, onwards and upwards!!


Good luck angel... you're doing well so far!! There certainly are difficult logistics involved with known donors!!


Rach x


----------



## pem

Rach - how ****ty for you guys...loads of    coming your way..

well...two of our three eggs fertilised, they are not great, but we will be putting one back on monday...have about as much faith/hope as i would if they putting a fizzy cola bottle up there...

pem x


----------



## snagglepat

Oh Pem, I'm sorry to hear things aren't looking so great. It aint over till the witch arrives though, and your little embie will still have a chance. Not so perfect embies turn into beautiful babies sometimes, so there's still hope. Definitely more than a fizzy cola bottle anyway. (Love the mental image that gave me by the way. Can you imagine the fizz?  )

Rach, that's really s****y news for you guys too, although managing to reduce your financial losses a bit is something. Maybe you can manage to chill out a bit this month in preparation for your next, really positive attempt next month. It must be so much harder now that your donor has moved even further away. I don't envy you those logistics. Would he ever be willing to travel to you if you covered his costs? Our donor almost always did the travelling for us and it made things so much easier.

Best wishes,

Gina. x


----------



## TwoBumps

Pem, just wanted to wish you luck for tomorrow! Got everything crossed for you, don't give up... it's not anywhere near over yet! We've all read plenty of those '1 embie miracle' stories, try to keep up the PMA x  

Rach, sorry to read about your timing probs this month hun. It's really tough when that happens, we think we have it all planned & then our bodies give out on us! As Gina suggested, it might be worth asking if he could travel to you instead? He might not be able to due to other committments, but you can only ask? Good luck x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

pem woshing you guys luck for ET tomorrow

Rach it is so frustrating, he may be willing to meet you half way or come to you some months!

L x


----------



## elfgypsy

Hi, new to forums and hope this is in the right place, I am on 2ww having had 1st try with known donor home insemination. I think I am very premenstrual so don't think it worked this time  
I have been on an emotional rock bottom this last few days and am wondering if there are any good phone councilors out there who have expertise on donor issues, our donor is planning a vasectomy after only 4 ov cycles and I am finding the pressure intense and I think it won't help my fertility so looking for some support and wishing I lived in Berkeley California where sperm and support seem to be abundant for LGBTQ folks...I live in South West England...


----------



## Glitterintheair

Hi elfgypsy, 

Wow that is a lot of pressure! I think that won't help you to relax...is he the only one you've found you want to use? I would say your best bet is the Samaritans, not necessarily calling them but you can email them and they get back to you within 24 hours..it helps to vent and write it all down. Otherwise maybe google and see if you can come up with some national lgbt help via phone lines. I really hope you will be ok! Message me anytime if you want a chat   I'm going to meet my sperm donor today and I am so scared!!

Gem x


----------



## elfgypsy

Thankyou so much, I hope your meeting went ok, I may not be premenstrual after all, i got a positive test reading this morning, feel so much, some amazing excitement and a sense of a need to stay grounded as the first 3 months can be so delicate, wow...one of the swimmers made it, I feel honoured to have got this far...

Sometime soon I plan to put our donor agreement up online to help other women going thru the DI process, its been a really long one for us, over 3 years of looking and talking and having friends say no and one donor backed out at the last minute, so much work to get access to sperms, and then using the needless syringe was a bit unpleasant, i looked on line for rounded end syringes and couldn't find a supplier closer than the US, if I find a supplier i will set up a small business!!

THanks again for your support,
xx


----------



## b&amp;l

Can't remember for the life of me if she's still based down south but Lena Fenton (therapist) is lgbtq friendly and does phone, email and face 2 face

From memory I seem to think she was around Chesshunt (sp*)

Lea x


----------



## snagglepat

Elfgypsy,

Many congratulations to you on your BFP. Long may it continue!  Both times I got pregnant I had much stronger premenstrual symptoms than normal. I think it's very common. Here's to a happy and healthy eight months ahead!

Best wishes,

Gina.


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

congratulations elfgypsy well done
L x


----------



## elfgypsy

I feel so happy to hear from you all, thankyou, its been a few days now and i still feel sooo much and so many things, the worry of miscarriage is often on my mind and i am working on being very kind to myself when those thoughts are happening, i think because its been so fraught with stress to get this far i feel i need to stay braced for the worst, i just got a book by Stephanie Brill on lesbian conception, pregnancy and birth, it looks really perfect and i wish i'd known about it 3 years ago, would recommend!!

Can someone point me to a resource to understand all the abbreviations please, I'd like to understand more about all your journeys

many best wishes to you all on your journeys

xx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/component/option,com_glossary/Itemid,202/

this might help with the abbreviations
L x


----------



## elfgypsy

brilliant, thanks!


----------



## lucky2010

congratulations elfgypsy!


AFM.... The stress of starting a new job is taking it's toll on my hormones. I started my period today (25 day cycle) which is 1/2 days earlier than hoped for a chance at success this month. We have arranged to go down and meet our donor on 15th and 16th July which would be days 13 and 14 of cycle, I tend to peak on day 11 and ovulate on day 12 so this would be too late. i am now having to re-arrange things so that I go down on the 14th (CD12) on my own and meet the donor and then Julie would come down and join me for our night away.... this is proving so much more difficult to arrange this time round!!


We can't really ask the donor to travel to us as he lives in the Midlands and commutes to London everyday for work so we're in the opposite direction!!


Sometimes it feels like everything is against us having another child    I know we're so so lucky to have Alex but it still makes us sad all the same. Please cross fingers for us that we get even half a chance at success this month xxxxxxxxx


----------



## elfgypsy

Hi, sorry to hear things are tricky, the female cycle is such an unpredictable creature, it can be hard in a world where so many logistics are needed to be organized...If you haven't got the book by Stephanie Brill http://www.maiamidwifery.com/books.htm, I would recommend it, I got it on Amazon.

I found it really supportive and understanding of the unique experiences that we have as lesbians trying to conceive, it was such a relief to read similar stories to my own and the dynamics and effects that this process has had on our lives.

I hope you have time to reorganize things, wishing you strength and positivity http://static.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/Smileys/classic/togetherhug.gif
xx Yarrow

This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## lucky2010

thanks for book suggestion.


I am now booked to go down next wed for insems on wed and thurs (CD12+13).... fingers crossed but not too hopeful anymore :-(
xx


----------



## southern_angel

I'm glad you've been able to rearrange Rach, CD12 and 13 sounds good if you normally surge on CD12.

This time you might remember that I had to rearrange to meet my donor earlier and insemmed on the day of my surge and look where that got me   

Keeping my fingers crossed for you


----------



## lucky2010

Thanks Angel,


I'm hoping I end up in the same situation as you!!! Here's hoping!


I hope you're doing ok and all is well with you.


Rach x


----------



## pem

Good Luck this cycle Rach...its tough when you are ttc no2. I feel guilty for feeling upset about BFN's as i already have Edie but it is still tough...hope day 13 is lucky for you..


----------



## snagglepat

Fingers crossed here too Rach. I hope it all goes well and that this one really is the last time. Good luck.

Gina. x


----------



## southern_angel

Hi all,

Just wanted some advice. 

I'm still pregnant (yippee!) - I did a clearblue digital text this morning and it said pregnant 3+  weeks within 20 seconds (I'm 5wks 5 days today). I've told my GP and apparently I'll hear from the midwives at around 10 weeks, although I've booked a scan for 7 5 and she said she'd love to hear how that goes so I'll probably arrange to see her in week 8 too. 

Anyway, what I wondered was how open you all are/have been/intend to be with medical staff about using a KD? When I saw the GP to tell her I was pregnant I just said that I'd been using donor sperm so I knew exactly when I'd conceived. She assumed I'd used a clinic and asked me where my treatment had been and I just mumbled 'London'. Is it best to just continue to fudge it, or are the midwives going to ask for more details? My KD doesn't want to be on the birth certificate so he can't be officially named (for legal/financial reasons), I am a bit worried about being forced to give his name if I say that I used a KD... 

Any thoughts? 

Angel


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

I am using a kd and did get pregnant but it was through the clinic, but I think being honest, I would just say you are pregnant you know the man but he is not, and will not be part of the child's life, he was helping you and leave it at that- so that they don't think you're an abandoned woman in pregnancy by a horrid man!! 

L x


----------



## pem

Hey...you won't be forced to give his name, we just said we used a donor etc etc. basically we were just honest and nobody ever asked any questions really!


----------



## snagglepat

We just had our booking appointment the other week and it was fine. With my first pregnancy they did ask for quite a lot of info on his ethnic/family/health background, some of which I was able to answer but not all but they never asked for a name or any identifying info. They were very open when I explained the circumstances. This time they actually had different sections for 'father of child' and 'mother's partner' which was great for us and they asked more about Rae than about the donor (age, does she smoke etc). It was all done on computer this time and one of the drop down choices was for donor insemination.

I'm sure you'll find that it won't be an issue and, especially if you're thinking of a home birth it will help you to feel more relaxed and confident in your community midwifery team if you can be honest with them. They can't force you to tell them anything anyway, but you'll probably find they don't even ask, or if they do it's only out of curiosity. It will be fine. 

Gina. x


----------



## southern_angel

Thanks for the info and reassurance everyone   

Hopefully my midwives will be as chilled out as yours have been. I really don't want to be dishonest with them. 

Off to make banana muffins now. If I get to have my booking in appointment at home (apparently some people do) then I'll make some more to bribe them with   

Angel


----------



## TwoBumps

We weren't pressed too much about our donor either, they were just interested in what we knew about his medical history really (blood group, any medical problems etc). They certainly didn't question us about the how's & why's of it all & we just shared what we felt comfortable to share. 
I would say though that other people you tell might not be as polite! We've had lots of people (particularly colleagues!) asking some quite invasive questions, although I'm sure they don't realise how personal they're being. It's just that lesbian pregnancies generate alot of questions for people so the nosier the person is, the more questions they'll ask. We started off being quite honest with people but found that this just lead to them probing even further and we've even been asked if they could see a picture of our donor (which we declined)!
It's not that we're uncomfortable about our method of conception, but we find all the questioning very rude. After all, nobody questions them about how they conceived! We want our girls to be proud of who they are & have always agreed that for that reason we'll be honest with them about how they came into the world. We've begun to realise that it's going to be tricky to protect our personal family space without making the girls think we're trying to hide things from people if they overhear people asking questions (once they're old enough to understand if course!). 
We've discussed it alot recently as the questions have multiplied since we've become visibly pregnant. We've decided that from now on, we're going to tell new people who ask that we don't know much about our donor (which isn't _exactly_ a lie!) so that if their questions become too personal we can just say 'we don't know' without appearing rude. 
Sorry for the long ramble, I just thought it might be something you may want to consider when you start telling people. With hindsight, we wish we'd only told family/ close friends everything we know about him & been more reserved with our colleagues. 
Twobumps


----------



## TwoBumps

Just to add to my above post, we've just returned from an appointment at the bank. Even the woman we saw asked ,"Do they have the same dad?"!! I'm sure if she was asked that question she'd be offended, yet people think it's ok to ask us! I answered, "They have the same donor, yes" That shut her up!


----------



## elfgypsy

This is really useful I am so grateful for this thread! i am not showing yet and not telling either but I do feel some worries about how to respond to peoples' curiosities and feel some sense of social responsibility to educate people with as much confidence as I can but also want to protect my own privacy and conserve energy, i though I might just say we did it thru donor insemination, the process is quite private and suggest they to look it up on the internet but that may come across as hostile and I don't want to alienate people, there is so much scope for people to be insensitive tho...

I am really glad to have internet, we live in a smallish town that is alternative but not very gay, gratitude for all of your journeys and sharings.
xx


----------



## lucky2010

Hi Guys,


We've been very open all the way through and I tend to tell as much as people ask... which is sometimes a bit too much for co fort!!! I have genuinely felt that people are just asking out of curiosity/ interest other that to be nosey!


As for us. We're due to inseminate on Weds and thurs and I have a terrible feeling I'm going to ovulate early again and waste another cycle. I'm going down to London on my own on Weds to meet the donor as Julie is working and she's going to come down on Thursday to meet me and we'll have a night on our own in the big smoke. Even if we do miss out on 'peak' fertility I hope we'll have a nice time. Just a bummer if we do miss out again :-(


Rach x


----------



## lucky2010

Hi, I've peaked this am and am not insemming till tomorrow afternoon and Thursday morning. Timing could be better, I would ideally do today and tomorrow but I'm hoping I'll be lucky... Realistically not too hopeful with timing though :-(


----------



## pem

Massive loads of luck Rach.....I really really really hope that this is your time....enjoy the big smoke with Julie...loads of   

pem x


----------



## Valhalla

Fingers crossed Rach!


----------



## elfgypsy

wishing you luck, and fast swimmers  xx


----------



## southern_angel

Hi all, 

I am just looking for some stories about how interested/involved your KDs have been in your pregnancy/ies? Mine has been very chirpy when I've spoken to him on the phone since my BFP and seems keep to meet up although I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that at the moment, I feel very protective and quite possesive of my little bean / proto bump! 

Angel


----------



## snagglepat

I think it depends a lot on what was originally agreed. How much contact did you both express an interest in? We never saw our donor when we were pregnant with Ember but we did meet up with him last weekend for lunch so he did get to meet me pregnant this time. We originally agreed on semi-regular email contact (which has evolved to mean every 3-6 months or thereabouts) and on the potential for very occasional meetings once a child/children were born. We discussed this when we met him this time, which was his third official meeting with Ember (not counting the night she woke up just as he was going into the guest room to make the donation that got us pregnant this time) and we're probably going to meet for lunch once a year. We've done that by accident so far and it's a level of contact that works for us all. We like the idea that he'll be present enough on the periphery of our family that when we get asked the question 'who is my donor' we can say 'it's X, who we had lunch with in that pub with the great playground back in June'.

So we've found that it's become more defined over time, but has stayed within the original general limits. 

Were you expecting to meet your donor again after a BFP? After the birth? Once your child might understand who he is? If you fear there may be a blurring of boundaries somewhere then it may be worth either discussing it with him or gently putting him off for a bit. If you're comfortable with a pregnant meet, maybe it would be better when you have a visible bump and a few more scan photos to show him (if you want to show them to him). At least then there'll be more to share but also more time passing to try to keep things cool.

Or not. It's a tough one, but I'd say go with your instincts first.

Good luck!

Gina. x


----------



## southern_angel

Thanks Gina, I was wondering how you'd handled it with yours. 

My long term plan in terms of contact is to meet maybe yearly, but to also have some email/phone contact in-between. We've agreed that he'll meet the baby in the first 6 months as I really like the idea of having a photo of them together that the child can have (I think I remember reading that you had a photo of E and your donor which would be a nice thing for her to have later on...?). Like you I'm hoping that he will be someone that is present enough in our life that the child will be able to know him when they are old/ready enough to want to, but not someone who is really involved. 

I think maybe I will take your suggestion of waiting to meet up with him until I'm a bit more pregnant and have the NHS scan photos to show him. Maybe I'll feel a bit less anxious then too... He's a great guy, I don't know why I'm feeling funny about it really. I suppose it's just another one of those situations that there isn't a script for and I'm not sure how to play it... 

Angel x


----------



## snagglepat

The photos are special to us, or at least, we anticipate they might be for Ember and her sibling eventually. We've taken one of them together every year so in the end we'll have a full series as they grow. I have do admit I do find it quite interesting inspecting the photos afterwards for physical resemblances that we don't get much opportunity to notice, or even think about at any other time. I think Ember looks a little more like him each time, but then he has quite a lean face so it's almost inevitable as her puppy fat reduces. 

We've been sorting through our bedroom this weekend as part of our attempt to get our home into some semblance of order before the new baby arrives (because there'll be no order at all afterwards) and we came across some photos of each of us as young children. Bizarrely, Ember looks extremely like the young Rae, and barely like me at all - so much so that when she saw the photos she thought the one of Rae was of her. Rae and our donor don't look alike at all, apart from in broad generalised ways (both blond and blue eyed, average height and slim/medium build) so it's purely a happy fluke, but I like it a lot. I wonder if it will work this time too. 

Gina. x


----------



## Strawbs78

This thread is fantastic, Im so glad I stumbled across it.. On the weekend I think I am going to trawl back through and give it a proper read.. We have just started with a donor, last month was a negative due to the timing being all a bit skewiff but we go again this weekend and I am ridiculously excited!!  Hopeful but trying to be measured..

Its all a bit daunting doing it yourself rather than at the clinic (we were at lwc) but I am hoping after this one I will be an old hand at it..  Our donor has agreed to 'visit' 3 times per window, day before surge, day of surge and day post surge which apparently maximises chances so I am    it wont take us too long..

Good luck and baby dust to everyone!!


----------



## elfgypsy

Welcome!! Hope things go smooth for you, 
xx


----------



## Strawbs78

thanks Elfgypsy.. I saw you recently got a postive result - that's fantastic!  (Ive only read back 3pages)..  You have given me hope that that could happen to me too.. Bring it on I say! xx


----------



## Strawbs78

Im officially on my 2WW - anybody else?  LH surge came late but finally got it today and have insem'd sat / sun and then again tonight so I am super hopeful!   

How is everyone?

babydust

xx


----------



## lucky2010

good luck strawbs... timing sounds perfect x


----------



## snagglepat

Strawbs, that sounds like absolutely perfect timing. Finger's crossed!

Where are you up to Rach?

Gina. x


----------



## lucky2010

frustrated and fed up    have pm'd you x


----------



## Strawbs78

Hi gina and lucky 

Thanks for the wishes of luck.. Kd has been and done and I've been laid up for just under 3 hours so I'm hoping those sperms are swimming and meets the egg..

Have a great night ladies xx


----------



## TwoBumps

Good luck Strawbs, great timing!
Twobumps x


----------



## Strawbs78

thanks twobumps.. Im finding the 2WW an extrutiatingly long time!  Im only a week in to it but I guess next sat if I get a bfn I will have wished I was still in the not knowing stage..  Im praying for a bfp next week but we will see..  DW keeps asking if I am getting any 'signs' but to be honestly I just feel normal.. A little more crampy than I would be normally but Im sure I probably have those cramp feelings each month and I just never notice them!   

just wanted to pop on and say hi.. I will let you all know how it all pans out but keep me in your prayers please ..   

Baby dust to all!!     

x


----------



## Nic&#039;n&#039;Lau

Hi Y'all 

If all goes to plan we'll be using a known donor soon .... so need some advice (as we've only tried IVF so far) where can I get syringes from etc for home insemination.  Someone said about not using ones with rubber ends ... I didn't know there was any other sort.

Any advice and tips and answers gratefully received!!

Nic xx


..... have changed profile name from Number6nic by the way


----------



## snagglepat

We just bought standard syringes (so I guess they had rubber ends), either 10ml or 5ml depending on what was available. I think we've had one BFP from each so it hasn't made much of a difference to us.  We used urine sample pots for the donor to make his donation into which were handy as they had a secure screw on lid so we didn't have to have contact with the stuff until we were ready to suck it up into the syringe. They also usually have a pointy bottom which helped to get the most of the sample out (be warned, one lot of 5ml syringes we bought didn't reach the bottom of the sample pot so we had to tip the contents out into the lid to draw it up - but we still got a BFP that cycle). We got syringes from ebay and used fresh ones each time. We re-used our sample pot which we originally got from the GP - just ask at the reception counter for one and they'll probably hand one over - they're not really going to ask you what you intend to use it for are they? We just washed it out well each time and made sure it was fully dry before using it again.

We didn't use any instead cups or moon cups. Even though we use mooncups for menstruation I just thought it would be too faffy and potentially disruptive to try and insert one after the insemination so we just did the lying down for a while thing. When I say 'for a while' I actually mean 'overnight' and given Angel's story above a 'long lie' might be a really useful thing. Make sure you have a good book to hand! 

It's worth putting a towel over the pillow that goes under your bum as you will probably have some leakage. We left the syringe in place for a while (up to an hour) before removing it to help reduce that, but it always still happened. Once it's in an orgasm can help the cervix to draw the sperm up. I didn't have one the first time we got pregnant but I did the second. It's worth noting I've since read that having an orgasm can increase the chances of having a boy because it affects the PH of your mucus making it more favourable to 'boy' sperm. I've no idea how reliable this is - I strongly suspect it's a pile of hooey - but we did have a girl the time I didn't orgasm. We won't be finding out in advance what this one is so I can't tell you if that rule worked for us this time until January I'm afraid. 

Good luck!

Gina. x


----------



## Nic&#039;n&#039;Lau

southern_angel said:


> I could only buy them in packs of 20, I actually have some left if you would like me to send you a few for your first go?


That would be AMAZING if thats ok !!! I am really grateful for the offer. I will PM you my address if thats ok.

Gina & Angel ... Thank you so much for your advice. I am feeling quite positive about it all having done the clinical route twice. I just want to be able to share this time with my wife without consultants and nurses etc staring at my girl bits!!! BLURGH!! and actually make love with my wife to bring a baby into the world rather than have some consultant injecting two embryos directly into my womb and bish bosh its done.

Soooo to summarise:
1) 10ml syringe ideal as slightly longer with sample cup (will go via doctors on way home tonight)
2) inject slowly - well not too quick
3) be prepared for leakage (((shiver and little nauseous)))
4) leave syringe in for hour or so
5) orgasm (def the best bit!!)
6) raise bum with towels to help with leakage
7) stay lying down for a while and read a darned good book (Kathy reichs or maybe gerri hill lol)

Its all making a bit more sense and with the pair of you having BFPs I know you're talking sense!!! I really hope KD is still up for this as its been a looong while since he said yes. Hope he hasn't got himself a new girlfriends yet to put spanner in works ... :S

Fingers crossed ladies!!!!
xxxx


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## Strawbs78

HI N&L

Just saw this post so thought I would put in my two bobs worth..  We googled online 'home insemination kits' and just ordered two of them as we had no idea.. BAsically its a syringe (as the girls have explained), a wide mouthed cup with a lid as sperm need to not be exposed to air (honestly it doesnt look that wide mouthed to me) plus it came with home pregnancy tests and ovulation tests (but I use clear blue digital instead).

Anyhoo so this is the way we roll when we do it.

1.  Donor arrives and does his thing
2. As quickly as possible (whilst making sure it has liquified - on this point I was told to wait up to 20 mins but I actually find by the time he has finished, gotten himself together, we have said our swift goodbyes, I get half undressed and get the syringe out its pretty much done) draw it up in to the syringe whilst trying to make sure there isnt too much air in the syringe.

On the above point I put the wide mouthed cup in to a ramekin for stability otherwise it could easily tip as the contents is not heavy.

3. I am on the bed with 2 pillows and a towel under my butt
4. DW then does the injecting   
5. Orgasm immediately
6. I leave the syringe for a good 20 mins / 30 mins
7. I then put full bottom knickers and a pad on and lay with my butt still elevated for no less than 3 hours

If you can make sure you eat before you do it as it is a little difficult to eat in that position but sandwiches are good if not..

Oh and I know it sounds silly but try not to drink water for a couple of hours beforehand to make sure that 30 mins in you are not busting for a pee (happened to me on try 1 and I held as long as I could but it wasnt ideal)..

Hope that helps!!


p.s. water is apparently sperm's arch enemy so make sure everything is dry especially if you are reusing syringes and containers and I mean CRAZY DRY!!


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## Strawbs78

Southern_Angel

Dont think its going to be our month this month, I did a pre test naughty I know    and it was neg and def got the symptoms of AF, I know they are similar but I think you just know so onwards and upwards for us I guess.. I will still wait til saturday but will defo be having a bit fat drink on sat night..

xxoo


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## southern_angel

Strawbs   Try to keep a PMA if you can, it still really early to test and I had AF symptoms leading upto my BFP (including cramps which continued for the first couple of weeks). 

Nic, thanks for your PM, I've sent you a little parcel   

Angel


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## Nic&#039;n&#039;Lau

Strawbs .... firstly ...... DO NOT let this crazily early test get in the way of thinking positively.  Its not over till the fat lady sings!! I read somewhere on here that some women who were pregnant had PMT symptoms etc worse than normal ... and then turned out to be pregnant!  So don't you dare give up!!!  Put your hands on your belly and send lots of love through them!  Thats what my reiki friend would say!

As for your fantastic instructions... Thank you!  You sooo made me laugh.  The bit about eating sandwiches... and all i could think of was "definitely not the time for soup then!!"    Am a little concerned about the air not being good with the sperm thing... i didn't think about anything like that. ... uh oh!  another little thing to get my head around.  Good thoughts about loo before ... the things you wouldn't think of until you'd done it eh?!

Angel .... BIG smiles from me! Thank you!

Tata for now .... 

Nx


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## Strawbs78

Hey N

your post really made me smile, if honest I had given up hope a little but I'll buck up and keep smiling and hoping :0)

don't worry about the air thing, so long as you get a sperm container with a lid and he puts the lid on tightly then it's all good..

On the food thing our first time I thought it was a brilliant idea to get a noodle salad ha ha .. Dw had to feed me (fab!!) but it literally went all over me ans then she had to clean me up like I was a kid ha ha 

If you need any more chats or tips I'm here... Are you tracking your ovukation yet? Mine seems to vary slightly each month.. Sorry I may have missed it but are you starting soon? Xx


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## Strawbs78

Morning ladies

Just an update it was a bfn for us today.. Just waiting for af to arrive now which should be any moment..  Im off later to have my first drink in 9 weeks.. much love and baby dust to all xx


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## Nic&#039;n&#039;Lau

Strawbs .... am v v v sorry for you!  It is quite possibly the most sucky feeling in the world!  Hope you had lots of cheeky drinks last night and aren't feeling too hungover today LOL!

I tracked my ovulation for about 10 months until I started IVF as they control all your hormones so tracking not poss.  As soon as next AF arrives i'll be tracking again though so that should be next week sometime.  Have a mega week planned.... seeing potential knjown donor on Wed & Thursday, Lords cricket on friday and Pride Sat & Sunday.  Cannot wait!  Its going to be a good break from home, work & my real life where the sadness exists.

Hoping to start soon but have lots of practicalities to talk to kd about next week - Just hoping that he isn't wanting different things to us!  I guess we'll see soon enough!

Wishing everyone lots of good things and babydust,
xxx


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## Benetton

Hi There

My partner and I are using a known donor as a co-parent, and although not legally binding we drafted up an agreement to make sure we were all on the same page when the baby arrived as to what to expect/obligations were.

As I said THIS IS NOT LEGALLY BINDING.... but we have found it a useful way to make things clear before his arrival. It is in NO WAY exhaustive only a guideline that we can all refer to when needed to remind us of where we are and also to document any changes that might be made at later stages if any arrangement is not working in practice.

I posted it here on this blog spot as I hope it will help others see the kind of things that are useful to think about if using a known donor/ co-parent as well as getting legal advice/legal documentation about your agreement in child rearing.

I have tried to take out any information relating to OUR personal agreement and names, but if anything is noticed please bring it to my attention.

Good Luck

http://informal-coparenting-doc.blogspot.com/2010/08/not-legally-binding.html

P.S so sorry to all those not successful this month,thinking of you all!!


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## lucky2010

Hi all,


We're trying again this cycle so will prob be around a bit more.... my feet are very firmly on the ground!!


hope everyone ok.


Rach xx


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## snagglepat

Hi Rach,

Sending tons of positive vibes you're way. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Gina. x


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## Strawbs78

Good Luck Rach!  Lets hope we are doing the baby dance for you soon x


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## pem

Loads of luck for this cycle rach....will be keeping absolutely everything crossed....


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## lucky2010

thanks guys xxxx


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## southern_angel

Best of luck Rach, sending you lots of


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## TwoBumps

Really, really wishing you loads of luck Rach!!! X


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## lucky2010

trying to be hopeful and positive! x


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## snagglepat

I'm still sending positive vibes to you Rach. Where are you in your cycle now?

Gina. x


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## lucky2010

Hi Gina,


I'm on day 7 today. Inseminating twice on Friday (day 11) and will then have everything tightly crossed for two weeks.... come on body!!!!


Can you believe our babies are nearly three?! Hope you're doing ok.


xx


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## snagglepat

I know! There's this increasingly gangly child that keeps asking me difficult questions about everything (just now: "How do we make the apples go on the trees?") and who already has an independent life and circle of friends where two minutes ago there was a gurgling baby. Do you have any plans for Alex's birthday? We'll probably have a party of sorts, but having been to a 3rd birthday party this weekend that was our idea of hell we'll probably keep it quite contained. 

Good luck for Friday, and for the weeks following. It's got to be your turn soon.

Best wishes,

Gina. x


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## lucky2010

I know. My life is filled with 'I don't like....' and 'why...' and role play centred around a wooden train set!!! (usually where I have to be the fat controller!!!) We're just having a few people to our house on his birthday not really a party. We figured this was the last year we'd really be able to get away without making a bigger fuss!!!


I'm in good a shape as I have been for a while leading up to Friday. No alcohol since holiday a month ago, no coffee, only about 2 cups of tea a day and loads of organic fruit and veg (not so much home grown as running out now.... I must learn how to spread my harvest out over the year!)


take care,


Rach xxx


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## babypapermache

thanks for pointing me this way x i think it will be very helpful to speak to people also with a known donor, the known donor will also actively play a father role... as it was also his dream to have a child so it benefitted us both. just not too sure how im gonna like having to share!!! x


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## lucky2010

Welcome!!!


AFM, I was too busy on Monday to go to docs for appt but am going to call for appointment tomorrow in the morning (strange GP won't give out appointments until the day!) I've taken the last BFN pretty well. A day of a few tears but onwards and upwards. I have to believe that it  will happen for us again.


Please remind me of this positivity when I'm in the depths of 2WW/BFN depression next month!!!!


Rach x


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## babypapermache

rach im sorry to hear its taking such a while for no 2 xx did u catch first time with yr first? xx


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## lucky2010

Yep, 1st time with Alex and we're now snot to embark on try #9 for a sibling!

We'll get there .....

X


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## BobbyS

I'm the same Rach, I am in the 2WW for the 10th try and looks like it's going to be another BFN as no symptoms when I usually have them at this time. It is so frustrating but every month I have to put it behind me and think positive again. But if I hear one more person telling me that the reason I can't get pregnant is because of stress.... arrrrghhhh it's enough to make me stressed!  

Bobbyx


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## lucky2010

I know that feeling Bobby.... people are always saying 'try not to think about it' or that i'm too stressed.... AArrrggghhh! Good luck for this 10th 2ww, I'll keep everything crossed for you. When do you test?


I've been to the docs today for bloods. He said there was no point doing my LH and FSH as I have very regular cycles and detect an LH surge every month on my fertility monitor. He has run a whole barrage of other tests though so we'll see. I expect them all to be ok though but is worth checking. We're waiting to see if our donor can meet next week... fingers crossed.


Rach x


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## babypapermache

hi girls it took me 19 attempts to get my first i charted did ovulation sticks temps one failed ivf cycle! the works but this time only 3 times!! the difference really was the lack of stress and i was so totally relaxed if it worked or not and i also found i was doing the insems far to early, my donor got me these expensive ovulating sticks that i had no faith in and it told me i was ovulating much later than i usually would expect but i went with it and it worked! still cant believe it! im sorry that ur journeys are taking their time fingers crossed for the next cycle for u xxx


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## BobbyS

Thanks for the tip babypapermache    I'm pleased you only had 3 attempts this time, you must have been over the moon! After last year my hormones were all over the place so I splashed out on a clearblue monitor, I use ov sticks, check BBT and CM and get a lot of pain during ovulation which actually helps as then I know when it happens   

Rach I know, that is a classic, 'try not to think about it', well I have tried and failed, so now I have given in. Every month DP and I  take time off work, pay £150 on travel and hotel to see KD - which of course is worth it- but unfortunately that does add extra pressure. Friends are always saying 'don't put pressure on yourself', how can I not?!? AF is due next Friday but I usually start spotting 3-5 days before so I pretty much know then. I wont even test if that happens  

Let me know how your other blood tests go, I had LH and FSH which were fine but they haven't offered to do anything else and just recommended IVF. 

My acupuncturist said he could arrange for me to have a day 21 progesterone test to see if my progesterone drops which is why it's not implanting/ I get the spotting. I feel like he is listening to me  - whoop whoop!  

Keeping everything crossed your donor is available next week  


Bobbyx


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## nickidee

I had 3 IUIs which, in retrospect i think were poorly timed, followed by 1 successful IVF for F but it took me 4 IVFs and 1 FET to conceive this baby (I am currently 16 weeks). 
I had a forward thinking consultant who was of the view that I may have auto immune issues which inhibited impantation and I therefore took 1 x baby aspirin daily and 25g prednisolone between ovulation and test day, as well as clexane (which is an anti-coagulant). 
When I still did not conceive despite having 2 good quality blasts put in on 3 occasions, we upped the ante and I also had an IV of intralipids (a soya fat based product used clinically for people who have difficulty absorbing fats but which seems to inhibit NK killer cells which can attack the embryo). I had the IV on the day of ET and again 24-36 hours following a BFP.
I don't know if any of these things effected the outcome, but they didn't hurt. 
I don't know whether any of the above may be of use to any of you, but I can certainly empathise with a long and drawn out battle to conceive


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## Strawbs78

Hi there babypapermache, which sticks did you get that helped? Im using clearblue digital.. Also how did he work out you were doing them too early? currently Im doing it day pre surge, day of surge and day post surge.. thanks!!



babypapermache said:


> hi girls it took me 19 attempts to get my first i charted did ovulation sticks temps one failed ivf cycle! the works but this time only 3 times!! the difference really was the lack of stress and i was so totally relaxed if it worked or not and i also found i was doing the insems far to early, my donor got me these expensive ovulating sticks that i had no faith in and it told me i was ovulating much later than i usually would expect but i went with it and it worked! still cant believe it! im sorry that ur journeys are taking their time fingers crossed for the next cycle for u xxx


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## BobbyS

Hey Nickidee, thanks for the info, it sounds as though your Consultant was really thorough and like you say, forward thinking. I have an appointment booked at the CRGH on the 30th of Nov so I will mention the treatment you had and see what they say as part of the consultation  

Bobbyx


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## babypapermache

hiya, well i usually think i know my body and when i ovulate by the mucus by the ovulation pain etc after all my experience i can read the signs lol so i was always doing it on like day 11 and 12... but when i used these ovualtion sticks it didnt give me a positive surge til day 14 which is the day i did it, so i think i obviously have lots of pre ovulation signs which i was interpreting as ovulation but it isnt til a few days later that i am ready. well i only insem once a cycle and i did it on that day of the positive stick so was really lucky!! do any of u with known donors actually have them play an active role? x


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## lucky2010

Hi BPM,


Our donor doesn't play an active role in Alex's lafe but we do know people who's donors do and it seems to work for them. Hope you're feeling well this far.


Rach


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## ♥JJ1♥

BPM- I have known donor we don't have a baby yet, we have mc'd but he and his partner will play an active role and be known to the child, but not co-parent.
I have another male friend who co-parents with a lesbian couple but their baby has just been born but so far so good.

L x


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## babypapermache

yeah there are lots of things to think about, he wants to be dad to the child which is fine, but not thought about birth certificate, naming, surname etc if ill feel ok about him having the baby without me etc lol i guess it will all fall into place eventually it was just a mutually beneficial arrangement he was deperate to be a father and i wanted another child x


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## southern_angel

Hello all, 

Has been quiet on here so I thought I'd touch base and see how the other KD families are getting on. 

I'm now 25 weeks pregnant and have recently had a bit of a wobble about my KD, mostly as a response to finding out I'm having a boy (which was a huge surprise - I'm from a mainly female family and the idea of me having a boy was so laughable it had become a family joke...). Somehow in my head this made me feel like the baby would be more like the donor than me, which freaked me out a bit   The 3D scan helped, but my parents are clearly experiencing some anxiety too - my mum keeps asking things about the donor like does he have a big nose which doesn't help. 

Anyone else experienced this?  

Angel


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## snagglepat

Hi Angel,

I can't properly answer this from a 'gender of the child' perspective given that we have a girl and don't officially know the gender of this baby. However, when we had the 20 week scan both DP and I saw what looked like definite boy bits more than once. We didn't ask for clarification so still don't officially 'know' but we'll be quite surprised if this one pops out a girl. I also had a wobbly few days just after the scan, partly because the idea that I could be carrying a boy just hadn't been something I'd considered - I also come from a very female dominated family - but also because it was only at that moment that I realised I really wanted Ember to have a sister. Both DP and I have just sisters and my sister is one of my closest friends. For me, this was the main reason for having another child - to give Ember (and the new baby) a sibling, but the thought that they might be different genders just seemed to have passed some part of my brain by. Fortunately it only took a few days for me to get my head round the idea and now I'm just excited about the arrival of our next baby, whoever they are, and I know that the relationship s/he has with Ember will be their own and they will make of it whatever they're meant to.

Your comments interest me though, because it hasn't affected the way I think about the donor at all, or my sense that this is our baby through and through. I do remember having similar thoughts when I was pregnant with Ember though. I realised that I had no idea about many of our donor's physical characteristics - did he have really ugly knees for example - and whether his ability to see his donations as purely altruistic acts meant he was actually emotionally stunted in some way and maybe that could be genetic. Of course, once Ember arrived none of that mattered, even though she clearly has some of his physical characteristics (her nose is all him, and it aint the smallest, and her eyes are exactly the same colour as his). She's our child. She's grown up with us. All her behavioural quirks can be traced back to either DP or I in some way and we of course think she's gorgeous.

I do have a fondness towards our KD that is unexpected, but it comes now from the fact that he resembles her, not the other way round. I would never share that with him, but I do feel more than just gratitude for the gift he's given us. I also think he's better looking now than I used to.  It's all complete bias due to my love for Ember, but it is interesting to analyse how my feelings have evolved over time.

I've only just seen your 3D scan for the first time today, but if it helps I definitely think your baby looks like you.  I'm not sure how you might be able to deal with your family's reactions other than telling them it isn't helping though. We used to get questions about our donor too, though we don't any more. When people found out he was also the donor for this baby it felt as though there was a sigh of relief, as if he was now a known quantity that had already passed muster, but I might be reading more into people's reactions than was really there.  

I'm not sure if any of that rambling is in any way helpful, but I do appreciate your honesty about your wobble about having a boy. I felt terribly guilty for having one at the time, so it's good to hear I'm not alone (DP was absolutely fine about it, the level-headed so and so    ).

Gina. x


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## lucky2010

Hi Angel,


Just a quickie as not feeling well. Every time we meet our KD to try for number two we find ourselves scrutinising his every move to see if we can see Alex in him.... weirdly we cant, at all! Everyone says Alex looks just like me (I can't really see it!) and we never even feel Alex is anything to do with the donor when we meet with him.... other than the gratitude we feel! 


big hug,


Rach x


----------



## southern_angel

Thanks Gina and Rach. 

Really good to hear I'm not the only one who wobbled re: boy Gina, like you I've felt bad about it but am also trying to own and process it... Sounds like your concerns re: the donor when you were pregnant with E are very like mine, so it's really reassuring to hear that those passed once you met E   

That's interesting about Alex not looking like your KD Rach, I wonder how much Thumper will look like mine. At least Gina thinks he looks like me! He's got long legs though (currently, in terms of the scan measurments) which don't come from me or the donor - J (my really good friend and birth partner - she'll also be Thumper's unofficial godmother) says they must have come from her!!! 

Hugs much appreciated too, thank you   
Angel


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## Strawbs78

Morning all...

Just want to see how everyone is getting on? We are in our 2ww again and hoping this time it sticks!! Xx


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## Strawbs78

Morning..  Is anyone still on this thread? x


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## lucky2010

We're still here... Just posting more elsewhere! X


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## Strawbs78

ha ha ha Looks like its you and me Rach!  How you doing? We must be up to what day 24 of 26? I feel like this 2ww is later than any other Ive done,k probably because it worked last time..

anyhoo.. see you back on the 2ww thread hon x


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## Debbie&#039;s Wife

Hi Strawbs and Rach, I was thinking about reviving this thread but wasn't sure if KD just meant not using a donor through a clinic or whether it meant that the donor would actually be known to the child?

We are planning to find a donor ourselves through a website but do not want the donor to have any contact with the child (I would like us to have some way of contacting the donor if we wanted to try for siblings later on, DW isn't so fussed).

We were planning to start trying home insem in Feb's 'window' (and had contacted a reasonably local donor we had found on Pride Angel) but we've had a bit of a wobble because our landlord (who is my mum's boyfriend, who I don't really get on with) decided to give us two weeks notice that he was nearly doubling our rent! This has left us wondering if we need to look for a new place to live  

We'd really like to start TTC in the next few months but need to see whats happening first.

Emma x


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## Strawbs78

Hi Emma, 

Welcome!! That is rubbish that he has done that, if you have a lease it is illegal that he raise it so much.. If youcan find somewhere else that isn't too different to what you pay now I would press on if I was you..

I'd to me is that you know who the donor is but anyone can join on here.. Our donor won't be having any involvement..

Welcome and good luck! iPhone about to run out of juicE so that's all from me for nOw. X


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## Strawbs78

Sorry for spelling mistakes this iPhone makes it up as it goes along!! Hahah


----------



## Debbie&#039;s Wife

Hi Strawbs, thank you!

No lease I'm afraid, it's all been done 'in the family' (we wish it wasn't, we would dearly love the clause where the landlord has to give you 24/48 hours notice before letting themselves in)!! It's a bit complicated but mum and mum's bf bought a different bungalow on their road last year which he has been renovating/extending and the plan is for them to sell where we live at the moment and that we will move into the new place when it is finished. We understand that the new place will be nicer inside/bigger living room/bigger garden etc (although it has one less bedroom) so it probably is worth more than where we are at the moment. But he has made us start to pay the new rent before we've moved into the new place   . We are mainly annoyed with how he went about telling us about the rent increase, he came round and saw DW on an evening when he knew I was out and basically told her  "you can make Emma understand" (he's never liked me and always just tolerated me because of my mum).

Sorry for the long story/rant   . We went round to the new bungalow last night to have a look because the new carpet had been laid and it does look very nice and would make a lovely family home with the living room and kitchen opening out onto the garden. Now we just need to get started with TTC!


----------



## Strawbs78

So have you decided to press on anyway? 

I noticed your 26lb ticker - how did you do it? I need to start on that road, i did slimming world for a bit and it really worked but I didnt stick at it so am going to start that again I think x


----------



## Strawbs78

ps when you are finally in your 2WW jump over the 2WW thread its quite active - or even now to be honest as you are gearing up for you, there are a lot more of us on there than on here.. x


----------



## Debbie&#039;s Wife

I really want to make a start, DW is the more level-headed one and says we need to wait a couple of months for her to be more settled in her new job and hopefully for us to be moved into the new bungalow, I know it makes more sense but I'm really impatient!

I have been doing the Tesco version of Slim-Fast (replace breakfast and lunch with milkshakes) and then have a healthly dinner. I've been stuck at the same weight since Christmas though, I just love a little bit of chocolate in the evenings too much! I did Weight-Watchers about 5 years ago and lost over 50lbs but then I started uni and put it all back on again


----------



## Strawbs78

ah I did one of those and it made me loose weight but I damaged my kidneys in the process so Im sticking with slimming world for sure, well done on the 26lbs though honey that is amazing! x


----------



## Debbie&#039;s Wife

Oh dear! I'm sorry to hear that  I've not found it too bad, I'm normally too busy at work to stop and think about being hungary during the day so I find it pretty easy to stick to (I'm always naughty at the weekends though).


----------



## Debbie&#039;s Wife

Hi Everyone, I think this is definately the right thread to post this on!

Saturday night DW really dropped a bombshell. She has always been the one to say she wants the donor to be as anonymous as possible/ doesn't like the idea of the child being able to contact the donor when they turn 18 etc. So I was very surprised when she suggested asking a good friend of ours if he would like "first refusal", she said she would feel comfortable with him because he's already like part of our family (he comes to sunday dinner at my mums house nearly every week). This is something that I would be more than happy with but have never meantioned the idea to DW because I thought she was so against the child having contact with the donor.

I have no idea how to broach a subject like this with someone, but DW said she wouldn't mind asking him, I think we'll have to see how she feels about it in the next few days. I guess until you ask someone you have no idea how they will feel about it.

Does anyone have any experiences of asking a friend to be their donor?


----------



## Strawbs78

Nope I dont.. We initially in 2008 went down the clinic route (still have swimmers in storage) and since July last year are with an anonymous donor, we want total separation from the experience i.e. it is DW and I raising the child and it is our child and no involvement of a 3rd party. 

I think if you are good friends then it should be a fairly easy subject to raise but just be open to his response even if it isnt a yes.

Good luck!

x


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## Debbie&#039;s Wife

Hi Strawbs,

You see thats exacally the way I thought DW wanted it, which is why I'm so surprised by what she said at the weekend!


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## lucky2010

Strawbs, 


How do you do AI at home with an anonymous donor? I'm intrigued!! My friends would like to do just this but can't work out how it would be possible!


Rach x


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## Strawbs78

Not anonymous as in we don't physically see him but we only know his first name and we meet in a hotel so anonymous in that sense I guess xx


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## lucky2010

Same as us then! 


xx


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## ♥JJ1♥

Els I am using my friend as a KD I think you just need to bite the bullet and go for it, chose your setting maybe ask him round to your house and not over dinner at your Mum's !!! it comes surprisingly easy once you go for it.  Does he know that you are planning to start a family as this was how I recall we got onto the subject that he knew of my desire to be a mum and then offered. 
L


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## BecsW

Els-DW's brother is our KD. We were chatting to him about wanting to start a family and mentioned that we would consider an anonymous donor through a clinic or a known donor. He then asked if we would consider him, DW was thrilled because she wanted him to be the donor but didn't know how to ask. In previous years I have had vague discussions with three male friends about wanting to start a family and considering who could be a donor for us, also that we preferred a KD (which we did at that time). On each occasion I didn't need to ask the next question because each friend said something along the lines of....they really hoped that we would get someone who would happily donate for us but that they wouldn't feel comfortable doing it. So actually each conversation was easy becuase people either want to include or exclude themselves as soon as they are part of the converstaion I think, hope this helps and isn't too rambly!!


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## snagglepat

Hi all,

How are you all doing?

Have any/many of you seen baby photos of your donors? I ask because we never had. I guess seeing him as an adult was enough for us in terms of knowing about his physical characteristics and he sent us a couple of recent photos by email before we met the first time. It just never occurred to us to ask. However, I sent him some photos of Bren a couple of days ago along with a recent photo of Ember. He responded by sending back two photos of him as a toddler and it was eerie. Ember is the spitting image of him, even the features that we've said are like me are more like him now we've got an image for comparison. Her ears and hair texture are the only obvious differences. They really could be twins.

I don't feel negative about this. Those different features happen to be not too dissimilar to Rae's so it's worked out well for us. And now we have Bren too it's clear that although he and Ember look very similar he looks much more like I did as a baby than Ember ever did. It is a bit strange though. 

Anyway, I hope all is well with everyone else. 

Gina. x


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## ♥JJ1♥

Hi Gina my friend is my kd but obviously I only know him as an adult but have asked and seen photos of him as a child- not a baby for some reason they don't have baby pics!!

L x


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## lucky2010

You have prompted me to request pics!! X


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## southern_angel

Hi Gina, 

I've not asked for / seen baby or child photos of mine. Another friend online recently posted photos of her child and her donor at the same age and they looked identical, I'm not sure that I'd want to see that for mine. I'm in a slightly different position without a DP though - I feel quite possessive of the baby already in a way that I suspect might be diluted if I was sharing him... 

Angel


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## Debbie&#039;s Wife

Hi Everyone,

Thought I'd revive this thread instead of starting a new one. I have a couple of questions that I wonder if anyone can help me with. We are just at the stage of finding a donor online.

My first question (because I can't remember and can't find it on here anywhere) if we are going to collect the sperm from the donor is 50 mins travelling back home too far? I didn't think it was that far away but I've just done the route on google maps and it came out at 50 mins, but I think I remember someone saying that about an hour is ok? We've only just made contact with this donor and haven't had a chance to ask him if he's willing to travel to us.

My next question is for those of you lucky ladies who have had your BFP and had midmife apts/ general docs apts for your children. I'd like to know what kind of medical history questions we should be asking the donor so that we know some answers when the midwife/doctor asks. For example I know that if there is family history of allergies that you are advised not to eat peanuts when pregnant. Can anyone help me with the sort of things we might need to know for medical apts?

Thank you for reading this long post 

Emma


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## ♥JJ1♥

I used to travel to my donors house but I think 20 mins to one hour is ok to inseminate, but I am sure that someone who has AI success will be along.

Re donor's med history if you look for donor questionnaires there is info about their family and their own medical history that might give you some ideas.

Wishing you luck
L x


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## Debbie&#039;s Wife

Thanks L!

I thought I remembered reading that up to an hour was ok... it would be just our luck to get stuck in traffic though!

Emma x


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## sophieandme

Hi there,

Me and my partner are very early on in the process, but wondered if I could have your opinion on the subject. We want a known sperm donor as we're uncomfortable with the idea of having never seen or heard the person who will be helping to produce our baby. It seems that UK clinics do not have any photos or audio of donors, so the only options are to (1) find our own donor, or (2) buy sperm from a US sperm bank. Is that right? Have any of you successfully found a good donor in the UK, if so how did you go about it, as we don't know anyone who is willing. Many thanks,

Sophie


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## LisaAndLaura

Hi Sophie

There are some good sites around to help you find your own donor.  We used pollentree.com, but there are lots of others.  I've heard prideangel mentioned too.  Some charge for registration, but I know pollentree doesn't.  We were really lucky and found the ideal donor really quickly, and it was good to meet up beforehand just for a chat.  It certainly made things a little less awkward when it came to donation time!

Best of luck in your search xx


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## babynumber

Hello Ladies,

I only have one person who I could potentially ask to be my Known Donor but... I'm just too scared to do it!! I guess I am expecting the answer to be no.  It's just such a strange thing to ask, and it will come as a bit of a shock to most people I'm sure.

I'm single and I live in Milton Keynes, and I can't afford to go to a clinic again (nearest one being Northampton), and also I do actually prefer the idea of using a donor and the home insemination method as opposed to a clinical procedure.  If the KD I have in mind does say no, then I will be following the advice of ladies on here and checking out CoParent, Pride Angel, Pollentree (which I'd never heard of before!) sites.  Are there any others that anyone has used? 

As I am 40 now, the chances of it working for me are low, especially since I have 'unexplained' infertility, BUT I'm going to keep trying until it is absolutely too late.  I think when you have that desire in your heart, that yearning, that doesn't go away - that's all you can do.  Give it a try and hope for a miracle!

xxx


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