# Reading/Oxford Part 13 (TTC Girls)



## Anthony Reid (Jan 1, 2002)

New home


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

Tony, thanks for the name change. For the sake of Jennifer and the others, could you please create a 'Reading/Oxford BFP' thread (again). That way nobody feels 'unwelcome' and they will all give and receive the special support that their situation needs. Once again it is up to those for whom the thread is most appropriate to keep it going.

An even worse night last night; waking what felt like every few minutes gasping for breath and mouth dry as a bone as both sinuses decided to lock their doors firmly last night. Still, it's only a few more days, then I should be on the 'up' tablets with only half the sniffing.


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## struthie (Sep 28, 2004)

Ahh Jess 
Sounds like you are really going through it,lets hope things get better soon!


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## Sue MJ (May 4, 2002)

Not going to write what I'd really like to as I will get into trouble, so will only write part of it.

Just want to wish you lots of fun at your meet ups and all the luck in the world with any current or upcoming treatment and hope that you can all move on to join others with BFP's and/or littluns on future meet ups!

As somebody who after many years of infertility and ICSI (6 full fresh cycles) am one of the most lucky people in the world to be blessed with my gorgeous boy - but and it is a very BIG but, the pain of those years and the fact that I do still have infertility issues is still very very vivid in my mind, so I do really really appreciate those of you that are still TTC, how fragile you are feeling.

So, as I said, all the best and lots of fun and support at your meet ups.

Love,

Sue xxx


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

Never mind what you might have said, what you did say is the important thing.

Thanks for the wishes to all of us still dreaming. Thanks for reminding us that if we achieve one little miracle, then we should remember how blessed we are, and thanks for telling us the reality that IF still causes pain long after that miracle has happened.

I hope that you can come to terms with the end of this route. Have you thought of adoption?

Whatever your final outcome, you will long for another, but remember how blessed you are as well. Life's no fun on this rollercoaster, and I'm sure we all wish you the best with your lovely son and DH/DP, whatever it may bring.

Jess xx


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## Jennifer (Jul 22, 2004)

Just so you all know - apologies have been made on both sides and the air has been cleared 

Nobody deserves the pain of infertility and I wish you all, all the best with your tx and sincerely hope all your dreams come true very soon    

Jennifer xx xx


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

Here, here!

xx


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## struthie (Sep 28, 2004)

Glad peace is restored.

How are you doing Jess?


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Hey all. xxxx

Is anyone still interested at a meetup at my place

Love Jan x


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## Matthews1978 (Mar 30, 2004)

Hello,

I live in Reading too, and just about to start my first IVF attempt, I am with Harley Street Fertility Clinic and have my first appointment on Wedneday with the nurse to get my perscription etc.

Did you shop around for you perscription?

Thanks for your help.

Lysa


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## yonny (Mar 5, 2005)

Hi girls!!

Sorry I havent been around for a while, got some bad news which kind of puts everything into perspective for me at least!

A girlfriend of mine, very happily married with two adorable kids, who I have been jealous of, if Im totally honest, as she seemed to swan through life with everything coming to her,has had her life shattered.

Her husband of four years was killed in a hit and run in Dunstable two weeks ago.

They were eight weeks pregnant with their third child.........and Alison has lost the baby.

She has totally retreated into herself, naturally, and I feel useless and hopeless and awfully guilty for all the times I looked at her with her babies and her ease of falling pregnant and was jealous.

I still have my beautiful husband thank god and now im having nightmares about losing him!

Sorry to be so depressing but we all know where we come to when we need to release
x
Jess , sorry to hear your having such a bad time of it, thinking of you,
Hope everyone else is ok
x


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

Yonny, what awful news. Forget the guilt - we can all look back at things and feel guilty because we couldn't see the future, or vice versa (if you get my dehumanising drift). It's nature. What you know in your heart is that you need to be there for her every step of the way. It's easy to console someone in the immediate timeframe, but as you know, pain is ongoing, and she will need you to be there when the initial rush of consolation has diminished. Just as nobody can begin to understand the depth of pain and frustration we go through, unless they've been through it themselves, nobody can begin to imagine what she's going through. But remember that you cannot do this alone, and if you need to vent, or whatever to help relieve the pressure of helping her, as it can't be easy, then please do. We're here for both of you in that respect. I can't imagine how it must feel to be scared of losing your husband in that way, though we came close to the end of our relationship. What you perhaps should focus on is enjoying having your DH around, and knowing that if anything were to happen - God forbid - then you had a great time. With mother's cancer, there was no point worrying about the outcome of the tests because there was nothing we could do. To worry only wasted time and emotion, when there was NOTHING we could do about it anyway. What we concentrated on was enjoying our time together, and facing the results as a strong team. I hope that helps.

Lysa welcome. Hayley, who is temporarily not posting, is also at Harley Street, and in that respect can give you more help than we can. We're a great bunch, very supportive (unless hormones or handbags get in the way). We laugh, cry and live through everything in each other's lives. I wonder if this is because it seems more 'exciting' than our own?. Only kidding - it helps relieve the pressure by supporting others, and if you only ever talked about IF problems, we'd all go stark staring mad - though I think most of us have already crossed that line ;-) (can't do many smiley's, my browser's knackered)

Jan - you bet I'm interested in a meet. I want to at least be able to size up Jennifer's handbag ;-). When were you thinking?

As for me, I've had 3 nights of severe unable-to-breathe sinus problems, aggravated by the sniffer, so I'm off for an extra visit up to the unit today to get some injections so I can both sleep and breathe at night! They reckon it's an underlying cold. I don't care, I just want some sleep.

Mother has finished her first week of chemo + radio, is on purely radiotherapy for the next 3 weeks, and is under strict instructions from me to phone and report in every day that I don't see her. She's also under strict instructions to fully recover, or she has one of her friends to answer to! How great is it to have friends like that!

To everyone who hasn't posted for a while, or those I've missed - hope all is going well.

Love Jess xx


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## struthie (Sep 28, 2004)

Oh Yonny thats awful,I'm so sorry.

Jess - hope you are ok,sounds like your mum has true fighting spirit,hope she is doing well.

Love to all xxx


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

Changing the subject somewhat...

I've just been PM'ing Janny and she says that nobody seems to have got back to her about a meet. 

C'MON GIRLS - WE NEED TO GIVE HER SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT

and anyway I've missed at least the last one or two, so it's about time we got together. So get responding and we'll hopefully meet any newbies and meet up with those old-timers for a natter and a giggle. We could all do with that now, couldn't we?


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

Ouch - b*ggar, b*llocks, b*ggar, b*llocks, b*ggar, b*llocks, b*ggar, b*llocks, b*ggar, b*llocks...

(if you're squeamish look away NOW)

Tonight was one of those nights when you start to put the needle in and everywhere you go it hurts or just won't go in. In the end I tried 3 times on each area, and just had to go for it. It really stung big time, and when I removed the needle, I bled. NOT a good time, and I'm squeamish, so feel a bit queasy. 

However, putting my life into perspective, I'm watching a programme where a group of disabled - amputees, blind, deaf, etc are going to spend 40 days and nights in a jungle. One of them has found yet another lump on his arm which has already been progressively amputated due to this rare and aggressive form of cancer. What on earth do I have to worry about?

(ouch, it still smarts though)

I managed to find the courage to check if the OX/Reading BFP thread had actually been created. Not only has it been created, it's in full flow. I felt brave enough to post there and wish everyone the best of luck, and I didn't , and still don't feel envious. Sure I'd like to be there, but the jealousy is still calming down. I hope that's a good sign, (ouch!!!!!!)


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## yonny (Mar 5, 2005)

Bless you Jess!
To have gone (and still be going through) everything you have and not to feel jealous would be superhuman so have no qualms about those jealous feelings!! They're normal!! As everyone on here will agree!

To give you a quick update on me, Struthie bless her,gave me a nugget of info I didnt know, that our clinic was closing for a refurb and that last date for treatment would be 15th November!
Well, I was told Id be starting end Oct beginning Nov so thought Id better check it out. 
After a long phone call the clinic and I have come to the decision that treatment will now start in Jan 06! 
Was a bit depressed about it yesterday but have pulled my self together and will continue with vits for me and DH and acupuncture etc etc etc ad infinitum!!!

Hopefully by the time Jan comes around we'll both be fighting fit!

Plus, yesterday darling DH came home with a load of brochures and the idea to head off to Thailand in November for three wks of relaxation and spas etc!! Lovely!
So thats todays job!! get the holiday sorted! 

As for meeting up? would absolutely love to!! would be fab to meet you all in the flesh! Give me as much notice as poss and I will do my very best to be around!

Hi to Lysa!! Hope your appointment went well! let us know!

Im off to peruse the brochures!! 

Yonny x


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## Matthews1978 (Mar 30, 2004)

Hello,

Well I have just got back and I start injecting on Sunday...... I am starting to get nervous now!!

Anybody else doing treatment at the mo?

Lysa


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

Lysa, sorry to sound silly, as it's probably obvious if I check the postings, but are you stimulating or down-regulating? There are techniques to getting the stuff into the needle - just shout if you want some help.

Yonny - everyone seemed to be ignoring me on the other thread, so rather than get cut up about being a nobody, I simply decided to remove my post. That way I can't expect them to reply to what isnt there and hey presto, that's another little problem sorted.

I do recommend a good holiday - and Thailand sounds wonderful. You are blessed with a DH as considerate as mine (we did Disneyland last year). It makes sense to do tx when mentally the stress of Christmas and the worst of the winter is over, and you can look forward to a new year and a new start. I think that having a BFN heading into the depths of winter last year tipped the balance, and I ended up taking anti-depresants just to get me through the next few months, which I'm glad I did. We were going to wait until next year, but with mother's cancer, we just thought there's no time like the present, and bit the bullet. It also means that by the time we emerge from the winter blues, we're most of the way through our 6 months break and can head down the adoption route. Knowing we have a plan, and knowing that this is the end of what could easily be an infinite route to being a family is a help.

Anyway, here I am waffling on about me again -sorry!


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi everyone,

Back from our hols to New England.   It was fantastic to get away from it all, and not even think about our IF, (at least not all the time). Just what we needed... relaxing, driving, walking, eating rather too much and lots of sleeping.

My AF started after 42 days which has buggered up another cycle around xmas, it looks like it will be January/ February now for us.


Yonny - so sorry to hear about your friend - life's hard isn't it - like you say it puts our lives into perspective, and makes us think about what we do have, as much as what we don't.

Lysa - welcome, how's the injections going? I had a complete tantrum before doing my first one and then felt really stupid cos it wasn't that bad - although I did have a few ouchy ones like Jess.

Jess - how's it going? are you feeling better now you're injecting? I really hope this one works for you.

How's everyone else? What have you been up to lately? Sounds like things have been busy!!!!  on here!

Take care

H4M  
xx


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

Hi H4M - sounds like 'just what the doctor ordered' Shame you can't get that on prescription!!

I'm OK - my legs are suffering from so many ouchy jabs, but you just have to get on with it. My nose has cleared up a lot, and I've slept much better since the change to jabs.

I've just been out selling more Xmas cards round the village. Door to door takes SO long, but most people haven't the time as they're preparing meals or whatever, so will let me know when it's convenient. One of my friends (the one who did my first injections when on IUI) has given me a cheque for a staggering £55 worth of cards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I need to get some more stuff to repeat the ones she wants (10 each of 4 designs) but boy, is it worth it! I think at this rate I won't have any cards left to sell at a Christmas Fayre in November! Can't be bad.

Lots of love to all
xxx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Everyone!

I just wanted to say to H4M that I am in the throws of having the longest wait ever for my AF as well - day 51 and I just look like a bloated blimp!  So much for the Chinese herbs and acupuncture!  I suppose it will happen when it happens!  I can't book in for the FET until the AF comes so I am feeling a bit frustrated as well.  I have put on half a stone so it is all fluid!

Love to you all.

Elaine xx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Hey all xxx

Jess, i'm a bit confused luvvy....

Are the injections you're using for down regging?  

There was about 2 weeks when i was using the injections & prognova together, but then used just the prognova & botty bombs ( progesterone) before et. How's your lining getting on etc?

I'm just a nosey old bag!!!

Hi everybody, glad to know that there's some people still posting on this thread, for a while everybody dissapeared.

Love ya.. Jan xxx


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

I'm using the injections instead of the sniffs to keep my hormones down. In addition I'm using the progynova to up my whatever - womb lining I think. Not sure how it all affects any follies.

Elaine, you poor thing. It can't be easy waiting for that long. Do you have irregular AFs normally?


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## struthie (Sep 28, 2004)

Jess - hope you are doing ok.

Elaine - poor you,hope the old witch turns up soon.

Hi to everyone else xxx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi!

I have a cycle from anywhere between 32 days and 42 days without IVF interfering - the next one after a failed IVF takes ages!  My body kind of shuts down after the shock of IVF!  Still no AF!  I think the best thing is to plan something nice like a day out and the witch is sure to come to ruin it!

Jess - I was at the unit yesterday dropping off envelopes for the newsletter and I thought of you!  I hope everything is going OK for your FET.  Say hello to my frosties when you have your transfer and let them know that I will follow on behind you as soon as I possibly can!!!

I am starting up a CAMEO support group (Come and Meet Each Other) under the guise of Infertility Network UK for women AND men to meet once a month one evening in a pub not far from the hospital.  There will be information sheets to-hand such as something to give out to friends and family, who don't know what best to say/do for the couple experiencing infertility, etc., as well as booze from the pub to loosen those tongues and ease those nerves for those who find it hard to talk about IF.  I will post the details on here once the first meet-ups have been arranged.  It is open to anyone going through treatment and also for friends/relatives, who want to find out ways helping us deal with this.  There will be support for those reaching the end of the journey with 'More to Life' information as well.  It will be very informal but a good chance for people to drop in and talk to others in the same boat.  The unit is going to help promote it as I have leaflets and posters to circulate.  If anyone is interested in a flyer to put up in your gp's surgery, please send me a P/M with your address and I'll post one out to you!  I will try and make it the same night such as the first Thursday of the month for example so there is not much confusion going forward.  Thanks for your support. 

Love to you all and all the best with your treatments!

Elaine x


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## yonny (Mar 5, 2005)

Sorry peeps!
havent disappeared, stuck in India! Monsoon means we cant go anywhere!
Hope all is well and will hopefully be able to catch up with everyone very soon!
Internet here keeps breaking down so havent posted for ages!!
Bye for now
Yonny x


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

The wicked witch arrived with a vengeance on day 53 and the pain was so intense, I spent most of the weekend either throwing up or clutching a hot-water bottle to my back and abdomen!  Endometriosis is like labour pain without the joyful outcome.  

Jess, I just wanted to say that I have booked in this morning to a do a FET cycle so looks like I'll be in good company albeit quite a few weeks behind you.

Take care everyone else.

Love,

Elaine x


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

Elaine - isn't it miserable! The only thing I can say is DON'T GET A COLD or you'll end up injecting yet again instead of having a needle-free zone as intended. I'm off for my first scan of the 'season' tomorrow at 8:10.

I've just received my birthday pressie from mum which is a paper making kit. I did one successful test run from some shredded paper, then went on to invent my own which include a bright yellow tea flower from China, the leaves from my jasmine tea last night, and a wonderful Christmas scented cinnamon and clove paper, which makes lovely tea-coloured splodges as it infuses the paper pulp. I dried most of the sheets naturally, but the thicker ones that I dried in the (low) oven don't seem to look as good, but they all smell wonderful!

I'll drop off a sheet to my friend Ali in Thame, and one to my new friend Erica (no, not an imaginary one) from Compton, who Ali and I met when we did a card-making class at Flutterbys in Thatcham. We could be the same people - we get on so well. She brought her labrador over, and once they'd all had a run in the sports field, they all came back and settled down fine, though Diddy was a bit worried when this hulking great choccy dog got up very slowly and serenely in response to Millie doing circuits round the coffee table for him! So we've all been invited over to Erica's next week for a card making session, as she does stamping, and it will allow me to do some cards without the outlay. Speaking of which, I must get on and sell some cards to cover my costs. Maybe I should sell these sheets.... any suggestions on prices for A5ish size handmade scented paper?

Hope everyone is OK?


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Girls!

I just wanted to let you know that Tiffany has had a little boy on Monday evening - 6lb 8oz.  William - mother and baby doing fine.  (It worked for her on her 3rd IVF attempt for those who didn't meet her at the get-together last year.)

Love,

Elaine x


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## Candy (Mar 8, 2004)

What fabulous news Elaine I couldn't not post my congratulations, please can you pass on my love to her and William, I hope that seeing him isn't too difficult for you as I know what good friends you are, love to all.


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Thanks Candy!

I will pass on your kind message.  It is a double-edged sword for me - I am delighted for her and am happy that she is over the moon but wish I could have a little bit of what she has for me!  Only human!

Everyone!
I have given an interview to the Independent on Sunday on IVF about how it is fine that everyone is saying that women should have children earlier to prevent fertility problems in the future but in reality hindsight is a wonderful thing!  If you are not financially stable, do not have a solid relationship, have not met Mr. Right, have not got a roof over your head, then it is not right to be thinking about bringing children into the world especially in your late teens or early twenties.  I started trying as soon as I was married at 30 but was not aware I had PCOS until my late 20's, only found out that I had endo. last year - thought all women had excrutiating period pain and I was unaware that I had a bicornuate uterus!  I said yes, I concentrated on a career but at the time I had not met Mr. Right!  What about men and their falling sperm counts?!  Who is telling them to start a family when they are in their twenties?!!  I also said that each individual and each couple has their own life, issues and problems so no-one has the right to dictate when and how they should conduct their lives.  It is a personal issue and does not belong in the public domain.

They are sending a photographer tomorrow morning so watch out for a grim photo!!!  Still look pasty and spotty from my AF!!!  Great timing!

I just hope that they don't twist my words for their own ends!

Wondering whether it was such a smart move...!

Love,

Elaine x


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi Elaine

For what it's worth I think you have done the right thing.

Our situations are very similar, I too concentrated on career whilst waiting to meet my DH and trying to be as financially and emotionally secure as poss b4 ttc. I think the media misses the fact that so many of us are in the same situation.

Well done you for giving our point of view, it so often gets missed in the plethora of stories about women being selfish and wanting 'designer babies'  etc etc.

It's excellent that they are now getting a real persons view of how it is and that IF treatment is NOT a choice for us, but a really crappy situation that we find ourselves in.

Good for you, honey.

Love

H4M
xx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Thanks H4M!

I am not a lover of media and would normally shy away from media attention but am becoming increasingly fed up with the way infertility is portrayed.  Everyone with kids has a negative view of us and a ready opinion to give but the minute we say anything about children or child-raising, they turn on us with the comment "you don't know as you don't have kids."  We cannot win.  We suffer in silence as our 40% taxes are spent on their children's births, too-posh-to-push caesarians, abortions, sterilisations, etc. and then they have the cheek to say that fertility treatment is wrong or that it should be paid for by us privately.  How they would change if they suddenly lost their kids and then had to turn to medical intervention to try to conceive replacements after they have had sterilisations or vasectomies?!

I'll step off my soap-box now as I know I am preaching to the converted!

We should really be celebrating the fact that we have studied, carved out careers, contributed to the welfare of everyone, bought our own houses, not rushed into relationshops and have planned when we want to try and conceive a family rather than sleeping with some unknown drunkard up a back alley after a drunken night out, then having to claim benefit for child number 1, 2, 3, 4 --- limitless benefit for kids all having different fathers with no-one grafting to pay for their own. 

Have a lovely weekend everyone!

Elaine x


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi Elaine

Couldn't have said it better myself. You go girl!!!

Hope you have a good weekend too, as well as everyone else.

Love

H4M
xx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

OK !!!  I just have to post.....

Elaine you kill me  but you know that already...

After years of bonking unceremoniously & being in what i thought was a stable relationship.... the ex left me at 26... i'd know him since i was 15! 

I married my present husband at 28 & 2 years later  - after trying everything conceivable (or not as the case may be) got referred to the JR - that took 18 months to get a laporoscopy & then 7 months to get on an IVF cycle...

Long story... 11 years later 3 IVF & 1 frozen cycle., 1 donor egg  - all bloody negative.... 

I now have my file.... which to my complete horror... has told me things i never knew... apparently, i was pg at 19.....    i have asked for more details!!!!! will let you know.... 

Anyway.. i'm blabbing... 

Long & short of it.... why don't they tell you earlier or more precisely the details.... perhaps more of us wouldn't have half the problems we have..

I told someone recently of my apparent 'pregnancy'... wish i hadn't!  The lack of understanding is miserable....
Although we don't particulary want peoples babies & indepth pregnancies rubbed in our faces, i do feel let down that after all the years of support & understanding we pour in to situations, that people who have managed to 'crack the infertility code' abandon us & our feelings in one huge sweep. 

I feel permenantly that i am letting my husband down... he deserves children! 
Our parents place so much on us as they get older, do this do that etc.... who's gonna look after me when i'm older?

Why do i feel that if i was a barren cow or sheep, the farmer would have shot me by now. 

In certain countries, if you can't produce an heir you are outcast! 

& the world goes on..... or does it? how can it if we can't produce a baby!

I agree with you.... why do prositutes & 15 year olds have the pleasure of having 3 or 4 kids that we, as tax payers have the pleasure of paying for?

As for the NHS & the fact that we pay for our NI contributions...... that's another episode of my book on 'Dallas'............

  to it all !!!!!

As for adoption?  ummmmm.... now let me see.. why did they turn us down? oh yeah.... parents divorced, not enough savings, jason can father his own child....
As for surrogacy... do i really want to take the risk of another woman keeping my husbands sperm induced child that he is then obligated to pay child support to for the next 16 years... without actually knowing what they actually look like...

Yeah right...

My personal views.. & i'm sorry.... 

Janny xxx


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

I have neither studied nor carved a career. 

They can find 'nothing wrong', or at least that's what they tell us to our faces. I've just learned that a particular neighbour now has care of her new bloke's child (who was temporarily in care) in addition to her own (2 different fathers). When I knocked on the door to sell Xmas cards, the smell of cigarette smoke blew straight in my face and nearly set my asthma off...

I wish someone could put them in our shoes for the day (though they could replace my holey worn-out trainers as they seem to have so much money to spend on expensive clothes, and having spent over 10 thousand pounds, cannot afford new cheap trainers this month)...

This is our last genetic hope, and not feeling in the best of frames of mind about it.


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Dear Jess, Jan, Yonny, H4M, Sarah, SaraF-P, Struthie, Hayley and all!

Sounds like we are all a bit down right now.  The article just took one of my comments and made a big thing of the fact that by thinking that we would do everything in the right order - get married, buy a house, put some money in the bank and then try for kids - was not good as fertility is better when you are younger.  For a start Dave and I only started living together when I was 27, then it took a couple of years to save for a wedding and then I started ttc at 30.  That was not leaving it until my late thirties - over 7 years' later and I am still trying!  If women want to study, then buy a house and become self-sufficient before having a child, there is not much hope of having kids in your early twenties as student loans of thousands of pounds, huge mortgages and pension contributions will take at least 10 years to pay off!  In a way, we would be better just sleeping around in our teens, claiming benefits and living in a council house rather than trying to contribute into the system!  More chance of being a Mum then!  I guess that our fertility problems would still have been there.  We cannot win!

One thing is certain - infertility is a great leveller.  Does not matter whether we are graduates, housewives, , dustbinmen or surgeons - it seems to affect all of us across the board.  The emotional stress and pain is the same.

Oh Jan!  I dread to think what is in my medical notes!  I don't ever really want to read them as I know a couple of times I have broken down in tears when talking about failed treatment.  The doctors have probably put me down as a hysterical nutter!  You are so brave to tackle your medical history so closely however dwelling on what might have been might be a bit soul-destroying.  Are you not better looking forward to options available to you rather than backwards?  We can have a chat tomorrow evening when I see you.

Is a group meet-up a good idea soon?  Would it give us all the much-needed lift we need?  Especially in the run up to Christmas.  Lunch or an evening bar-snack in a country pub anyone?!

Love to you all,

Elaine xx


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi guys

Hope you all had a good weekend.

Elaine, sorry the paper only used one quote - it would have been good for the 'general public' to have got a better insight into what it's like to be us, wouldn't it?

I think a get together would be a fab idea - evenings are better for me cos I work full time, but keep me posted.

H4M
xx


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## struthie (Sep 28, 2004)

Elaine - was it in the paper yesterday,I flicked through it at work but I couldn't see it,would be interested to see it though.


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

I did offer a meet up at my place, but the lack of response made me feel a bit depondant to be honest.

In all fairness.. i give up.

Keep trucking girlies... we all gotta get there somehow.

Jess, you're not a the end of the road just yet, you are still on this cycle so try to keep sane & we're routing for you. 


Happy hallowe'en   xxxxxxxxx

Jan x


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## yonny (Mar 5, 2005)

Hi guys!!
Gosh we are all a bit down arent we!!
Sorry I havent been here as much as I would have liked but we all know what its like with work and DH and basically life!
never enought time!!! 

Sorry you think no one was interested in meeting at yours Jan, Im sure thats not the case! 

Im totally up for it but its just that I need quite a bit of notice, as Im sure we all do, so if you want to throw any dates around maybe we can work something out?
If not at yours then as Elaine says perhaps a pub................or is there a nice friendly loony bin somewhere where we can all let off a bit of steam and have a rant and a rave!!!  

Anyhow, DH is hovering for his din dins...........so Id better be the good wife tonight and make it as I fly again tomorrow!

catch up with you all at the weekend!

Lots of love

Yonny xxx
ps any suggestions as to what to do with a doggie terrified of fireworks??


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

Can we make sure that if we meet it's smoke-free please?? 

Doggies and fireworks... If you have time - which you won't this year, you can get a Fireworks desensitisation CD and a Dog Appeasing Pheromone (DAP) dispenser from your vet which gives off the (ironically for us) *****'s pheromones which are supposed to help calm the little darling. The CD needs to be worked on all year, and is played in the background during normal life. They gradually increase the noise level and type of noisy fireworks, but you are supposed to keep returning to levels which the dog can take until they're desensitised. It's sort of working for my little clock-work dog, and Millie just follows suit!

Hope that helps.

BTW - did you know that if looking into adoption, the clinic cannot legally disclose whether or not you are on their books, and therefore they cannot find out when you have last had treatment so  to their policy of not having tx and having to wait 6 months...


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Jess, can you let me know where you found out that info please on the adoption thingy?

I'd be interested at looking into it.

Hope everything going okay with you 

Hi everybody.... try again then... is anybody interested at meeting up at the end of november.....

does smoke free include open fires   sorry Jess couldn't resist 

xxxxxxxxxxxx Janny xxxxxxxx


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

Er, it was word of mouth I'm afraid as it is unofficial info. But it's from a pretty reliable source, someone who sees people like us every day of her working life and who has been asked to be a referee for prospective adoptive parents... As she says, she sees us at our most vulnerable, and can tell when a couple are 'together' as a family, no matter how much arguing WE had done - we were'nt eve talking to each other in the waiting room!!!!

Fires - cheeky!!!


----------



## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

I see nobody has posted for a while, so thought i'd keep the door open.... is anybody out there!! 

Did anybody go to fireworks?

Anybody heard any good jokes lately?

Or am i talking to myself here  

Oh well....... c ya laters


----------



## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

I'm not being rude - just want to keep a low profile for the mo.
xx


----------



## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi!

I am around!  Received drugs for FET cycle yesterday.  Start sniffing on Friday.  Wondering whether the F-IVF newsletters are going to be ready tomorrow or Friday at the latest.

Kept away from fireworks and other people's kids for the first time and don't feel like I missed out.  

I hope everyone else is happy-ish and healthy.

Love,

Elaine x


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## yonny (Mar 5, 2005)

Im around as well!!!!!! 

albeit sporadically ! (spelling??)

Got over fireworks with the dogs thank goodness, thanks for your advice Jess,
Charlie is the collie, he's the one who gets terrified at all big bangs, so I gave him some rescue remedy.........and it worked a treat!
Joe the retriever doesnt care as long as he has his bed and cuddles! 

I really dont have anything to report re treatment as Im not starting till January, although DH is having his variocele treated in December so who knows, some docs say that should help, some say it doesnt make a jot of difference! 

Found out last week that I have christmas off(first time in 3 years!) so very pleased about that!
I fly off to Rio on Boxing day but am back for new years eve also so have been madly arranging parties to go to! Cant wait!!! 

Re meeting up Janny, would still love to but dont come back from Thailand from our holiday until 4th December so cant do end november!! Any other dates anyone?

Struthie, how you doing?? Have been keeping up with you on another thread, hope all is well!
Jess, hope you're ok Although Im sure we all understand the need to keep our head down once in a while x
Elaine, roll on the sniffing!! Good luck with it all!

Right, off to run the dogs! While its still sunny!
Laters
Y x


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## struthie (Sep 28, 2004)

Hi Yonny 
I'm here!
Doing ok thank you,although trying not to think about it too much,on the 2ww again!
Fingers crossed this works or it will be ivf in January.

Hope you are all ok xxx


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

as usual. 

We will be starting down the adoption route as soon as I'm back at work and we have the money. I just want to get Christmas over and done with, though I don't know how I'll feel if my brother is able to come over with his son.

I'm going to keep my head down for a while as you can appreciate. I will be back to support you all, cos I know how much that support means.

Thanks for all your support.

Jess xx


----------



## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Oh Jess, honey I'm so sorry.

Life is s**t isn't it.

Understand completely if you're not around - but know that we are here for you if you need us.

Thinking about you.

H4M
xxx


----------



## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Jess,

I just wanted to add to my personal e-mails to you that you are very brave and I admire your decision to proceed to adoption.  Here's hoping for a quick process and a speedy outcome.  Any child would be very excited to have some doggy friends as well as a loving Mum and Dad, desperate to take him or her or them to Disney!

Meanwhile open some booze, let your hair down and try and have a rest before the adoption process begins in earnest.

Lean on us - we are here for you.

Love,

Elaine x


----------



## Celia (Jun 8, 2002)

Jess

I just wanted to say how sorry I was to hear your news. However, good on you for looking forward and thinking of adoption. Good luck with that process and hope you find your much longed for family that way. I have seen some wonderful stories on here from people who have adopted and feel that all their struggles ttc were worth it to gain the adoptive children they have.

Celia


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## *Kim* (May 5, 2002)

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,39606.0.html


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

Dear all

I just wanted to say thanks to you all for your messages of love and support.

I'm actually feeling fine about it, though talking about it to close friends and family brings on the tears, even though the emotions are not in the fore.

It's a relief to know that I don't have endless more sessions of waiting between treatments and the inevitable eggshells to tread on. DH has been so fantastic throughout. I couldn't fault him as a husband, and I can't fault his devotion and will to help to make this happen.

At least the adoption process is as involved for DH as it is for me, where before he had to just watch from the sidelines for the most part. This cannot fail to try a couple's relationship, and I think we've come through with flying colours.

Since our fourth IUI failure we've been talking long-term about the possibility of adoption, and whilst I had the physical side to come to terms with, his was the genetic side. This has given us a good grounding for moving forward. Whilst it probably will hit me in a week or two, it's not a total shock to the system, and we know that we can do our homework in the dark evenings, whilst getting back to work to pay for it all (when there's work around) and use that time wisely.

There is one good thing - once the dreaded AF (threatening since yesterday, and threatening to be really nasty) has been and gone, we can get back to enjoying intimacy like we used to, and totally forgetting (well, as much as you can) about procreation as we really do know that we've done everything we can, it's out of our hands and we have absolutely no regrets.

On a brighter note, someone we know who has so few hormones that even IVF was difficult (she lost one baby and spent the whole pregnancy lying in a hospital bed having nearly lost Esther) has found out she's pregnant - naturally! It's going to be a tough time for her and her family, but if she can do it, there's no reason why we can't. We've just got to get on with being ourselves once again.

And in addition, we've got a couple of friends who (officially) know a couple in the village who have adopted once, and are looking to adopt again (probably again from USA). The friend I saw on Monday (test day) will ask if the couple would be willing to talk to us about it. That's so helpful. Not only have they been through it, they're going through it again, and they live in the village. I do hope they feel they can open up to us and help.

Love to all and fingers X'd for everyone cycling (a bit cold in this weather)

Jess xx


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi Jess

I just wanted to say, how much I admire you. You seem to have come through this really well. I guess you can now do something positive with a near guaranteed positive outcome, which in some ways must be a relief.

Good luck with it all

H4M
xx


----------



## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Hey girls.  

Jess, i'm agrieved to hear that you have had a neg. Best wishes along the adoption route.  

I've been having a real crap couple of days..... i have finally accepted that our ownly hope is to go abroad for our donor egg ivf. 
I have spent the last few days trawling over the boards & sending emails abrouad for fees etc, only to get myself in a complete old knot 

When i got in the car to go home last night there was a song on the radio that caught me so much that i had to pull over & sob. 
I got in the car this morning & bugger me if after the usual constant natter that is on the radio... they played it again..........

Thing is.... at lunch time, i walked into a shop & it was playing ..... i stood there & we all went through my head..........

I just had to share this with you.. & if you already know the song you'll know what i mean..... if ya don't ... i've just spent the last half an hour finding it on the internet....

To all my friends..... with all my love  


Anastasia - Left outside of love............

All my life I've been waiting
For you to bring a fairy tale my way
. . . . .
It's not okay I don't feel safe
. . . . .
Wanna breath can't find air
Thought you were sent from up above
. . . . .
So much more I have to say
Help me find a way
. . . . .
And I wonder if you know
How it really feels
. . . . .
When it's cold out here
Well maybe you should know
. . . . .
To be left outside alone
To be left outside alone
. . . . .
I'll tell you
All my life I've been waiting
. . . . .
Been living in a fantasy without meaning
It's not okay I don't feel safe
. . . . .
Why do you play me like a game?
. . . . .
Someday you might understand
. . . . .
But I hope you find a way
. . . . .
How it really feels
To be left outside alone
. . . . .
Well maybe you should know
Just how it feels
. . . . .
To be left outside alone
. . . . .
All my life I've been waiting
For you to bring a fairytale my way
. . . . .
It's not okay I don't feel safe
I need to pray
. . . . .
How it really feels
To be left outside alone
. . . . .
Well maybe you should know
Just how it feels
. . . . .
To be left outside alone
. . . . .


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hey you.

No wonder it had you bawling your eyes out.

Isn't it wierd it being on every where you went?

You gotta know though that you're not 'outside alone' we are out there with you. You are not alone, honey.
And if enough people are out there with you - that's where the party is!!

Love

H4M
xx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Jan and H4M and all the other lovely people on this thread!

You are definitely not alone outside - we are freezing our bits off with you as we huddle together for warmth, support, love, comfort and safety in numbers!  Don't turn on the radio is my advice and wear ear-plugs!  My view is that those feelings are pent-up anyway and were waiting for a trigger to release them.  That's why the song has got to you.

Mine was watching both parts of 'The Last Tommy'.  I cried my eyes out when the last guy of 107 visited the battlefields.  He said that he could not go to the place where he had been wounded by a shell as his three best friends had been killed by the same shell.  He had only started to talk about his war experiences at the age of 100!  He had not forgiven the Germans yet he found the strength and courage to meet with an equally old veteran from the other side and he shook hands.  At the last minute as he travelled back to the UK, he had a change of heart and asked to go to the site of his terrible memories, where his beloved friends had died at Pelham Ridge.  His companion pushed him in his wheelchair to the monument and this lovely, old man reached forward and put his cross bedecked with poppies onto the monument.  He was visibly moved and I just broke down in tears.  My emotions were also pent up and ready to come out, Jan.  Do you know, I believe that he needed to make that journey to find inner peace?  I now think that he will be able to rest easy.

Sorry if I have inadvertently set anyone else off.  War is terrible and the greatest horror on this planet.

Jan - we all need to cry as it helps us cope with things.  It's a release mechanism.  No doubt many of us will be watching 'Children in Need' tonight and there will be something that sets us all off.  It's healthy.  Take the time out until the new year before making any decisions about donor IVF abroad.  If you rush into it, you might get stressed out and it might affect the outcome.  Plan it carefully step by step and go for it when you are ready.  The eggs will come from someone much younger so the chances are much higher and your age won't come into play.  They will probably put three back as well so the chances will be higher from that as well!

Take care everyone and let's plan a meet-up soon so we can try and laugh together rather than cry alone!

Love,

Elaine xxx


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

Oh, Jan!

It's such a poignant song. I hadn't put any particular meaning to it, but it does seem that we're left out alone in terms of what we want in our lives that everyone else seems to achieve without a second thought.

I know I probably need to fall apart, and I think I'll give CIN a miss tonight, just because there are more meaningful things that we need to be doing tonight. 

MIL has finally gone in for some tests (don't know which) and DH will be collecting her from hospital later. Mother is starting to recover from the after-effects of the Chemo/Radiotherapy, but is still not eating much more than a couple of spoons of potato all day! DH just wants to get on with the adoption process, and I just want to get on with finishing the house, repairing the car, taxing the other car, putting heating in some rooms that were not priorities when we were last on central heating plumbing! It all costs money, and I'm totally brassic. Whilst the Xmas cards are keeping me occupied, I've actually spent more than I should, so I owe myself a lot (on the credit cards) and need to sell loads to make up for the cashflow I've used. My home life feels a bit manic and out of control at the moment, and I'm procrastinating taking the dogs out cos it's so damn cold!!

Anyway, we all need a meet, and if someone could organise one, it would be great - I might not be the life and soul of the party, as it might all come out - I can feel it starting to bubble up, that could be because AF does that for me anyway. It could also be because the dogs were so cold last night that they spent half the night in our bed (!!) and I spent most of that time not being able to control my thoughts about how to resolve the problem for a super-warm doggy bed and make some money from it, where to source my stuff from and how to put it all together, but there you go - that's life, Jan, but not as we know it...

Lots of love to all

xxx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Thank you all... 

Children in need eh?!!!    how about we want to be mum's in need   heheheh


The meet up, if it's ok.... i'd like to offer....... 
you are all right... we need a meet up............

Does anybody know of anybody that lives in or around capetown?

Elaine.. how's things going.?
M4M  ..... hey hunni!
Jess..... chin up we're british!

Love you all... take care in this horrible weather.....

Jan xx

Love you all loads


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

It never rains....

Not only does the car need a new exhaust when we can least afford it, but the horn is not working (don't tell anyone!), and today on his way home from work, DH had a blow-out. Whilst rooting around for the spare, found it to be flat. Once home, we finally find out that M-I-L has a tumour (more tests on Monday), and she was due to fly out to see her other son and his Ozzie family at the end of this month! Any more that that we don't know, but at least my mum's turned the corner on her side-effects.

I guess this might impact our adoption process as they probably won't deem us fit enough to go forward (at the point of 'linking' with a child) whilst either preparing to or actually grieving, as it will be too disruptive for a child. We just can't win!


----------



## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Oh Jess,

Sometimes it doesn't rain - it pours.  Remember to take some time out for you and try not to worry too much about your MIL, money, etc.  Things seem to have hit a low-point and can only start to get better soon.  I find it so sad that both Mums are suffering from cancer at the same time.  A friend of mine had to go to her father's funeral and her FIL's within days of one another after a year of dashing between hospitals due to cancer.  It does happen to other people so please don't think "why me?"

Jan - my friend did use to live in Cape Town for five years but is now in Alnwick!!  Not quite the same!  We could just meet up somewhere neutral like a smoke-free pub or a garden-centre?!  Or at someone's house and we can fetch fish and chips to save the bother of cooking!

The sniffing is going fine this time although I never remember to take it dead on time!  I am a bit more laid back about it as I feel like I am just going through the motions, having no high hopes at all! The blood test is on Thursday but I have had no bleed yet so that joy is yet to come in the next couple of days.  We borrowed a dog yesterday and went for a long walk in the sunshine and feel better for it!  So we are doing the same without a dog today!  A friend of a friend is a retired physchologist, who experienced infertility herself.  She has offered to see me to help me relax and deal with things so I am going to take her up on it.  Just worried that she might discover that insane streak that IF has made me have----!  Only joking!

Love to all - Jess, Sarah, Sara F-P, Jan, H4M, Yonny, Struthie and all!

Elaine x


----------



## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

or hails...

MIL has been given approx 18 months. That means that if we get approval for the adoption process, she will be about ready to pop her cloggs, then we have my FIL to deal with, who will fall apart when she's gone, never mind in the meantime. BIL is on his way over with the family to spend Xmas here. DH and BIL have agreed a truce, but where does that leave me? If I'm not allowed to build a relationship with the children only to drop it again because of the way they treated me last time, then how am I supposed to behave towards them whilst we're in the same house?

Not only that but I will have to cope with their happy family over here knowing that all of this is going to seriously scupper our chances of having a child placed with us. Would you place a child with a family who's about to lose one grandparent and always be concerned for the welfare and health of the other? It just seems like everything is against us all of a sudden. By the time we get over the MIL, that could add another 3-4 years onto everything. By then I'll be in my late 30s, almost 40 and all I want is a family.


----------



## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Oh Jess,

I am sure that the adoption people are not going to be worried about family feuds.  As long as the couple is secure in their relationship, that is all that matteres.  People get married, have kids, move away and drift apart from their original families every day.  What about people, who emigrate?  Just because they are not around the corner and it is all smiles in an extended family, does not mean that they won't accept you!  It could be that there are no grandparents left alive.  People adopt in their fifties and sixties so that means that there is even less chance that grandparents are around.  Only children have no siblings but I am sure they are allowed to adopt.

I think that they would view it favourably because they know that you are going to have more free time on your hands as commitments reduce as time goes on.  It sounds harsh but none of us will live for ever.  Usually other people have their hands tied with families long before grandparents become infirm.  They cope with both and so can we.  In a way, they have it easier as having kids does ease the bereavement process as you have to put a brave face on it for the kids and routines still have to be maintained.

Try not to worry about every possible scenario.  It is hard to do but don't try to cross any bridges that you might never ever come to.  You'll exhaust yourself mentally and drive yourself silly well before you even meet the social workers, attend the training courses, etc.  I would try and get in touch with some people, who have already adopted to put you at your ease.  The chances are that they will say that as soon as they started the process in earnest, their fears were allayed and the things that they never even considered beforehand proved to be the most difficult to face!

All the best and try to relax a little.

Love,

Elaine x


----------



## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi Jess 

- so sorry to hear about your MIL, you really are having a pants time of it at the moment. I know there is nothing I can say that will make you feel any better about any of it - but know that we are here for you, if you want to have a rant about it all.

I was talking to my friend the other night and came to the conclusion that we all have our own challenges and mountains to climb - she's having problems with her son at school and badly broke her arm in the summer, which was badly pinned and will now have to have another op to sort it out, also really stressed about money and lack of emotional support from her family, my sister has a little boy but a **** of a husband and a really difficult relationship with our mum, and I have the best DH in the world and some fabulous friends and yet with all we have to offer we can't (at least never have had) what we want most in the world - life seems so unfair but I guess we don't get more than we can bear and what doesn't break us - makes us stronger.

At least that's my positive slant for today - the other day I just blubbed about the unfairness of it all and I guess either will do.

Sorry for my babbling today - feeling a bit philosophical.

Hi everyone else - Look after yourselves - hope you are ok.

Love

H4M
xx


----------



## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Jess,

Sorry to hear about your family, who need em eh?

As you already know - we got turned down for adoption..... if you don't try you don't know 

Have you looked on the adoption thread? has that given you any encouragement.

I know that from the time the Dr referred us - to the time the social worker turned us down was about a year.... get your Dr on your side.. & GO FOR IT!!!!!!!

As for age Jess... you got a longway to go to catch up with me 

Really wish you the best hun xxxxxxx

My Gp has informed me that the info she gave me from my notes from CARE are incorrect... they sent the wrong notes.........  


Helloooo to everybody........ 

Jan xxxx


----------



## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

It doesn't rain, it pours for me as well!

No down-regulation bleed so they did a wee-wee test - predictably negative - but a scan revealed a large ovarian cyst!  Just marvellous!  Will probably have an op. Monday or Tuesday to sort it out.  Fortunately Dave has leave booked for then anyway!
Will get more news tomorrow afternoon once they have had my blood result about whether this cycle will proceed or whether delaying things another week will give sufficient time to squeeze in the ET just before Christmas.

Will keep you posted.



Love,

Elaine xx


----------



## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Op. Monday at 8 a.m. to drain the cyst!

Hope you are not eating as you read this posting!  Have a better weekend than me dreading the op. everyone!

Love,

Elaine x


----------



## struthie (Sep 28, 2004)

Oh Elaine 
Not what you need right now!
Hope all goes well,do let us know xxx


----------



## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

Elaine - hope it went well xxx


----------



## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi everyone!

I survived the op!  The anaesthetic was very light and I felt everything.  I was talking and aware of what was going on - it just made me slightly woozy.  They drained off four test-tubes' full of straw-coloured liquid, which wasn't cloudy so I will hear from them if the lab. finds anything untoward.  The stabbing-pain was sharp when they put the needle in so I know why they give us more drugs for the ECs!  The embarrassing thing was that I had started bleeding at the unit before the op.  I guess the down-regulation period was starting despite the cyst!  The probe had blood on it before he started!  Whoops!  I then thought "well they needed to get rid of the cyst and I guess these people see lots of blood as they are gynaecologists so why get stressed about it?"  I have been bleeding heavily ever since and have had to take painkillers but that is normal for me.

Back on Friday to check that it hasn't filled up again as 30% do.  I hope not.  Another scan and another blood-test to see whether I have finally down-regulated before getting the go-ahead to take the tablets on Sunday.  It will be a close call whether the womb-lining thickens up in time to do the embryo-transfer before Christmas but there again, we don't even know whether the embryos will defrost okay!  I thought frozen embryo cycles were supposed to be easier than conventional IVF?!!  I suppose they are if you don't have a cyst!

Thanks for your support and I hope you are all bearing up during the run up to Christmas with all the kiddy-hype and present extravaganza adverts.  Oh for a simple Christmas with animals in a stable!

Love,

Elaine xx


----------



## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

Poor Elaine!

Here's hoping that everything from this point goes relatively straight-forwardly, and preferably before Xmas.

Not to trivialise your situation but I'm having stabbing pains in my ovaries, mainly at night but sometimes during the day. I'm not getting much sleep, mainly because of other factors, but the pains don't help when you're trying to nod off!

IF YOU THINK YOU HAD A BAD DAY TODAY, this will make you  

Borrowing mother's car whilst she's not up to driving, I thought I'd pop into town to do some shopping etc - 'pop' was not quite what happened. First I had to fight the ice to actually open the door. Next I discovered the battery was flat. No problem - back into the house to get the charging pack. Nearly, but no cigar! It still needed more charge. I thought I'd check to see if any friends were around - no chance. By this stage I was crying, as nothing seems to be as simple as just doing it at the moment, and every time a car's battery is going to go flat in the winter - guess who it always does it to - and it's NOT EVEN MY CAR!!!! So I fought the Frontera door and once in, was able to start the car. Next, whilst warming up, I had to find the jump leads in the house. At least that was relatively straight-forward. Once I'd got the leads out with frozen and filthy hands, I only had to open the bonnet and connect the two cars. Only it is NEVER that simple on a day like today! The bullbars had been bent back towards the bonnet and I had to spend a good 20 mins trying to open the bonnet catch with one hand and pull the bonnet up with the other, which proved near impossible. OK - so now to connect the leads... Only about 20cm too short! So with the bonnet open, and the windscreen covered in snow, I manouvered the Frontera nearer the Micra, as they're only side by side. First and second attempts didn't work, but third time lucky! Then to finally connect the leads - success. Only I couldn't get anywhere near the Micra driver's door, so had to get in via the narrow space by the bank, and climb into the passenger side, pull my legs over and start the car. Then, I had to reverse the procedure. Whilst the cars were running, I thought I'd check on the windscreen level on the Micra - which DID need doing. Finally after 1.5hrs of faffing about, I finally got to town, only to think at various points that I'd forgotten the card for the joint account, and to be forever misplacing my shopping list. That done, I had lost some time, and thought I was only running about 30mins late to meet a friend.. until I got just outside the village to find a poor French bloke had been in an accident with another car (police been and gone and told the other agressive driver to leave) on our very isolated road and had been waiting for the recovery vehicle for about 1.5hrs. So I stopped and told him to get in and warm up whilst they got there. In the meantime I was able to direct both the recovery vehicle and a friend of his to pick up the pieces. His front wing was ripped off, his bumper was hardly associated with the car, and the front well crumpled. It certainly made my morning and my being 1.5hrs late for my friend pale into insignificance!

As for Xmas, I must admit I'm not too bad with kiddies around, it's just the whole 2 mothers plus back into limbo-land thing, with no job and no income and the prospect of having to face the BIL with his and SIL's attitude towards me with their kids. The children themselves are lovely, but you'll probably all agree you can't interact with children without sometime guiding them, whether you're aware of it or not. 

Still, must get to bed as I'm taking mother for her hospital appt tomorrow.

Love to all, esp Elaine


----------



## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Everyone and particularly Jess after that horrid day yesterday!

I though I would give you my worst day ever - I lived in Yorkshire and had to drive to Harlow, Essex for a really important meeting.  Meanwhile one of my customers was kicking off so I spent nearly the whole journey liaising on the carphone with my manufacturing plant and the customer to sort out a mega urgent problem.  I failed to notice that I had not tanked up with petrol but the indicator still showed that I had quarter of a tank of petrol.  I stupidly believed it.  The car ground to a halt north of Cambridge so I called out the AA.  They took ages to arrive and then could not find out what the problem was.  

I finally suggested could it be lack of petrol even though the indicator showed otherwise as it seemed stuck!  It was!  They sorted me out with petrol and I had re-arranged the meeting with the customer in Harlow for that afternoon due to the car problem.  I set off only for my carphone to die on me!  I drove into Cambridge to get it fixed and was driving towards the M11, when the traffic-lights changed to red.  I stopped - pity about the young driver who had borrowed his dad's car without permission!  He drove straight into the back of mine and more-or-less wrote it off!  Then he ran off leaving me to try to contact the police, insurers, etc.  Fortunately his mates stayed and one finally found him and dragged him back to the scene.

I then phoned his dad to explain that his son had been in an accident but fortunately was unhurt and that was the important thing!  He was obviously furious but concerned.  Harsh lesson but a good one for his son.

It was only when I had sorted everything out, had told my customer what had happened and fortunately he understood but was fighting back the urge to giggle and then I phoned Dave - my fairly new boyfriend!  Phoned the company secretary and then burst into tears!  Ok no-one was hurt but I was obviously not meant to get to Harlow that day!  I organised a hire-car and drove back home to Yorkshire!  

Jess you were very kind to stop for that guy.  I would have done the same thing.  I don't know why this is but I have experienced the same problems as you - always when doing a favour for someone else.  It somehow backfires.  In time, these things will provide great stories with which to entertain your friends but some time does need to elapse before they appear funny to you!

Anyhow hopefully the car worked today when you had to run your Mum to her appointment.  At least you sorted everything out beforehand.

The ovary pains might indicate that you are trying to ovulate - maybe it is a good time to try some BMS?!

Love to you all.

Elaine x


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Bless you both Elaine and Jess.

You both do my heart good. 

You always seem to be able to pick yourselves up no matter what c**p comes your way.

I hope things are going better for you both today.

Love

H4M
xx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Just to make you all feel even worse...

My holiday confirmation came through today!!!!!!

off to Benidorm on the 17th December for 10 days wooohoooooo !!!! & after loads of hagling..... managed to get £150 knocked off........ sooooooo.. I CAN'T WAIT !!!!! 


& on another note.....    i have had confirmation today fron the John Radcilffe that there is a 6 month waiting list for donor embryo & it's cheaper at £2200... had new costs from CARE this morning & there prices have shot up again..... wasn't happy there, so have registered back at JR.... saves going abroad & all that..

Elaine... things are going to go according to plan from now on.... 

Jess, you have encouraged me to explore all avenues.... now i'm encouraging you to do the same babe... 

Listen you horrible lot... when do you want to get together. there's a few of us thta haven't actually met yet & it would me nice to put faces to the sentances.....

& another thing....... this is my 2nd year on this site


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi!

Jan - rub it in about your holiday why don't you?!!  Crappy, congested Carterton for me this Christmas but New Year with the outlaws in Southport freezing my bits off!  Seriously, good for you and I am so proud of you being brave enough to go for a donor cycle at the JR.  Happy second anniversary on this site and I am not far behind you!  You name a time and a date for your get-together and I'll be there.  Let's hope that next year is our year - you can have the triplets and I'll put myself down for twins.  Father Christmas had better have a very large bulging sack for all of us on this thread this year or I might have to sit on his lap very heavily and crush his thigh-bones to bits!  That's torn it - I've now been a naughty girl and will have to make do with a sack of ashes as per usual!!

  Thought I would pick one of those emoticons for a change.

I think that this sniffing is making me quite silly!

H4M - glad that Jess and I inspire you!  We are a bit like the Grand old Duke of York - "When we were up we were injecting, When we were down we had negatives, When we were only half way up, we were obviously sniffing."

Love to you all and hope Jan's holiday brochure smells of horrible printing inks!

Elaine xx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Jealousy will get you no where!!!!!!


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hey there!

Jan - can't believe you are rubbing our noses in it you rotten thing! Well at least we'll be snuggled up in front of the log fire in the crispy cold here. Who wants a Christmas suntan anyway? Boo Hoo! 

Would love to get together. Just name the date and I will try to be there.

Elaine - you do make me laugh - that's exactly what it's like.

I should be starting again in Dec/ Jan, well when AF arrives, that'll be a joy wont it? sniffing for xmas and New Year? At least hopefully I wont be at the 'mega raging mad psycopathic woman from hell' point by then - I have that to look forwards to in the New Year. What a way to start 2006?  

Still at least we have only 24 days to go until Santa arrives. Hurrahhh!!! 

Take care everyone

Love

H4M
xxx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

I feel a bit like the old grand duke of york!!!  when you're up, you're up & when you're down, you're RIGHT down!!

Just when i thought i was beginning to find my hyper side again...... i've come crashing down the hill & landed on barbed wire....

Today would have been my due date   

My niece, who's 17 rang me last night to tell me that she is 6 months gone.... i bawled my eyes out on the phone to her.. poor kid & now i'm at a conondrum & don't know if to send her flowers & congratulations or shout & scream at her about the unfairness of it all...   I can't believe it hit me so hard.

She's a good kid, screwed up like most teenagers but underneath a good un.

Serves me right for getting cocky about my holiday 

 Jan x


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## River (Oct 23, 2005)

Hi Ladies, 

I hope you don't mind me gatecrashing you thread. I am also in the Reading area. I had a laparoscopy at the Capio Hospital in Reading on Tuesday and have been told that my best option is IVF. I have been treated by a consultant called Mr Williams and have to say that he has made a traumatic time absolutely unbearable. Does anybody else have experience with him? He has been so awful that he keeps playing on my mind. Anyway, I have a follow up appointment at the end of December and think I am going to go for IVF
at the John Ratcliffe. I have read that they have an Egg sharing scheme and hoping to go for that to bring the cost down.
I would really like to hear from anybody who has is being treated there.

Take care
River
x


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hey Jan

I am so sorry - life is a bugga isn't it?

Sooooo unfair.

You have a good old rant and rave with us and then you may feel up to speaking nicely with your niece.

It's hard to get your head around the fact that someone else being pg doesn't lessen your chances and it isn't their fault - it just seems so crap that it's so easy for some people when it isn't for us.

It doesn't serve you right for being happy about your hols - your deserve to have some time to relax and have a nice time. You don't have to balance the good with something horrid. You should have something good anyway - God knows we all have enough bad stuff - having IF tx is bad enough for that.

I hope you are ok .

Love 

H4M
xx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Hi River..

Oh ! do i remember Dr Williams......  horrible man

I was refererred from him to The JR, where i had 3 ivf.

Welcome to our place of sanctuary & feel free to have a rant & rave.. we all do!

Love Jan xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi River,

I am at the JR and also on the Friends of IVF - if you want a newsletter, send me a PM with your address and I will put one in the post for you.  There have been a lot of changes at the JR particularly in the last year and ALL for the better.  The last treatment and this one - halfway through a frozen embryo cycle - have been great.  I feel like I am going back to see friends, the staff are so nice.

Jan - sorry about your 17-year old niece - tell her to invest in some barbed-wire pants when she is so young or get her a chastity-belt.  Failing that, offer to take the baby off her hands!  That will shut her up!  No, seriously do as I do - assume anyone between 11 and 50 is pregnant and if they're not, it's a bonus!  Mind you nowadays if they see that doctor in Italy, it might be between 11 and 65!

Just to cheer you up Jan - I now have the trots!  Off to the hygienist at the dentist for 2.30 or tooth-hurty as Dave insists on saying.  I hope I don't have to run to the loo whilst in the chair!  Great!

Cyst has gone and just waiting for blood-test results now - in case you were wondering!

Lots of love and have a great weekend,

Elaine xx


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## River (Oct 23, 2005)

Hi Elaine/Janny Bear

It makes me feel a whole lot to know that other people have had a bad experience with Mr Williams. He speaks to me like dirt, doesn't give me eye contact and basically shouts me down if I ask any questions. And I am not even on the NHS but paying privately for his crap!

Elaine - I have sent you a PM re the newsletter.
I really hope that when I get referred to the JR I have a consultant that has a bit of compassion. Feel as if I need a bit of TLC about now!

Nice to meet you all!

Angela 
a.k.a River


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

That Mr. Williams sounds like he should be struck off if you ask me - how dare he treat patients like that?!  Arrogance does not belong in the medical profession.  I would write a letter of complaint to the PCT about him.  As long as no-one says anything, he will get away with it.  Mind you, if I had seen him and he had behaved like that to me when I was paying, I would have asked him what was wrong with him!  If he said nothing, I would have said "then in that case there is no excuse for treating me like something you have trod in on your shoe.  Please start to behave professionally towards me or otherwise you are giving me cause for concern as to whether I should be paying for your services.  Please could you recommend someone, who gives a ****?!"  That would do the trick!  Being a straight-talking Northern lass, I want good value for my hard-earned brass and I take no prisoners!  People like that do the medical profession a disservice and make my blood boil!

That's released a bit of pent-up aggression!  By the way, I have down-regged and the tablets start tomorrow!

Love to you all and get a restful weekend!

Elaine xx


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## pink panther (May 4, 2005)

Hi girls,
sorry I've been off the thread for a while, I don't think I'm going to get my life back again 'til next May when my course is over. Still it's quite good aversion therapy, even though since I started the course two of the three mentors I have have fallen pregnant and therefore whenever I work with them people are constantly coming up to them and talking about 'the joy of it all'-yes, sarcasm does help!!
Just to let you all know that I do drop in every now-and-again to see how you all are and you're all in my thoughts.
We're going to try again next year (after the course!) but at this moment in time I think that will be enough tries for me. I'm coming round to adoption more-and-more but dh will have nothing of it and the two times that I've plucked up the courage to talk to him about it it unfortunately just dissolves into a big argument and sleeping in separate rooms (now, I'm sure last time I checked you had to be in the same room to make babies!!)
My thoughts, love and hugs are with you all, here's to 2006.....
With love
Sarah xxxx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Sarah!

Glad that all's well with you!  I guess our hubbies are on the same wavelength when it comes to the adoption subject!  Silence is golden!  He just clams up on me and goes quiet.

We are thinking about giving a good home to a friend's cat.  Not quite a child but if he can take to the cat, I might be able to persuade him that he can love an adopted cat, why not a child?!!  Oh the depths I am prepared to go to in order to get my own way!!!

Love to you all,

Elaine x


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Morning  

Right - got over niece that need barb wired knickers! 

Got a rug doctor & spent all day saturday taking it out on the carpets  thoroughly recommend it!

Apparently her family are throwing her a big bash for her 18th birthday next month - we have declined. 

Glad you have down regged Elaine - let the next stage commence.....  show me a man that doesn't love a pussy? 

Does anybody want to start throwing some dates around for a meet up in January?

2 weeks today i will be sitting on the beach in Benidorm 

On a slightly different note.... I am now looking at donor embryo - rather than donor egg - JR has closed it's list for donor eggy as it's in excess of 3 ! years...
& i aint going back to Northampton...... besides, it's a cheaper option..... £2200 appx in the UK.  

Anyway.. better get on with some work 

Sees ya laters..... xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## struthie (Sep 28, 2004)

Morning 
Janny - have you thought of going to the Chiltern in Great Missenden thats where I am being treated,not sure how long their list is for donor embryo,I know for a donor egg its 18 months,I'm going to donate my eggs there in January,I want someone to get some good out of this infertility nightmare.
Anyway thought it might help.

How is everyone?
I might even be brave and come to a meet up next year,I get lost north of Bucks though so don't make it too far away!!


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Everyone!

Jan, I can do most dates in Januaray other than the 14th - that's my birthday and as much as I would love to spend it with you, Dave might well have something up his sleeve for us to do.  I might also be on a mega-downer on that day if I hit 38 and this frozen embryo cycle has not worked.  It'd be another milestone without success - you know what I mean by this, I am sure.

I am absolutely shattered today - spent over 6 hours scrubbing Tiff's old house as she moved on Saturday.  My arms are killing me!  It was a 400 year-old cottage with loads of beams, two open fireplaces, tiny leaded windows, which are difficult to clean.  My nose is streaming again but I am sure that is from the fireplace soot and dust!  That's what friends are for!  Just glad she has moved to a modern house!

Will try and have an easy day today!

Love,

Elaine x


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## yonny (Mar 5, 2005)

Hi everyone!!!!

back from my hols in Thailand.....................and yes it was absolutely wonderful!!!
Fabulous sunshine, blue blue ocean and soft white sand, and the nicest kindest people on the earth!

Hard to believe it was such a scene of devastation only eleven months ago, I watched that programme on the tsunami last night as it showed the resort we stayed at, we'd spoken to loads of people who had survived and had loads of stories to tell but that programme actually helped you understand the total unworldiness of lying on the beach sunbathing one minute then being up to your neck in water and being dragged out to sea the next,terrifying.

Anyhow, it was fab and we'll be going back!

How is everyone then??

We were at Stoke Mandeville today as DH was seeing his uroligist about his variocele,and they're going to operate at beginning of jan so we're pleased about that! Although DH is a little nervous!!!!!

My GP has suggested holding back from tx to see if we can conceive naturally, he swears that this is what our problem is, but I just dont know...................and meanwhile time is ticking away!!! 
Any thoughts girls?

A meet up in Jan sounds good, throw some dates at me and Ill let you know, it would be lovely to put faces to names!!

Anyhow, hope you guys are all well, sorry i havent said anything to you all
personally but I now have all the unpacking to do!! YUK!! 

Bye for now  
yonny x


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## River (Oct 23, 2005)

Hi All,

I am trying to mentally prepare myself for my follow up appointment with my Consultant at the end of the month to tell me my options after my Lap.

I was briefly told that I had two choices, either try for 6-12 months and if it doesn't work go for IVF or go straight for IVF. One of my tubes is blocked and the other has been unblocked. If I am prescribed something like Clomid I would consider trying this for a couple of months before going for IVF but if I an not offer Clomid that I will go straight for IVF. Do you think is is likely that I will be offered Clomid? I ovulate naturally but have read on this forum that other members in a similar situation were given clomid to 'boost' their good side. 
If I decide to go for IVF I will be going private at Oxford JR. Does anybody know roughly how long it takes from the first appointment at the JR to actually starting the cycle? Are there waiting times even though it is private? If the first cycle doesn't work, how long do you have to wait for another?
Also I read somewhere that sometimes the cycle is 6 weeks, sometimes 10? Why is this? i could probably find this out myself but when ever I start reading I end up finding negative things that I just can't cope with at the moment 

I have been feeling ok, still off work from Lap but have just been watching Test Tube babies on Discovery Health and the stories on there today were not very positive and it has put me on a downer  

Also, I have been considering being an Egg doner providing all the tests come back ok. Does this slow the whole process up?

Thanks for your help
River
x


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

Just wanted to say I'm still here, though busy with MIL still in hospital, FIL on a real downer, mother coming out of the worst of the radiochemo symptoms (surgery Jan) et al.

Will post really quickly as have lots to do and organise and the house is in the usual disruptive mess after laying the kitchen floor, which, guess what - isn't quite finished!!

River - I would suggest you go straight for IVF given that time is ticking. If other methods won't work, then you've not wasted any time. 

I can't remember how long it took for referral as we went through various tests and 'wait and sees' before finally being referred for Chlomid, IUI, then ultimately IVF. They can see you pretty much whenever they have their next IVF 'newcomers' meeting or something to that effect, where lots of couples sit through a presentation on the whole thing. I thought that would be our first opportunity to meet some others, but everyone seemed to keep to themselves! Once you are ready to go, you book in on day 1 of your cycle. You are given a drugs appt to explain your initial drugs regime, how to inject, etc. On day 21 you start down regging (via injection or sniffing). Overall, if you count from day 1, then it's about 8 weeks;

2 weeks to go through normal ovulation 
2 weeks down-regging
2 weeks stimming
2 weeks wait

Remember to start taking pregnancy vitamins if you're not already, as they need time to get into your system. Start learning to drink your 1.5l of liquids, and try to cut down/out on alcohol/caffeine in preparation. Make sure you've got something planned to keep your mind off things during the 2ww, but remember we're all here for you as you start to climb the walls, and everything that's gone before.

Take care all

Jess


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi River,

Go with your gut feeling.  If you are definitely ovulating, I'd try Clomid for a few months.  See IVF as your last resort as you are still only 29.  With IVF, the downregulating sniffing is for 21 days.  Everyone reacts differently to the ovulation stimulating injections and it usually takes up to two weeks before egg-collection, then another two days before embryo transfer, then the dreaded two-week wait.  The JR likes you to have two natural periods after a negative cycle before going again.  That gives time for you and your ovaries to recover sufficiently before going again.

You can always phone up the unit to ask to speak to someone about your concerns.

Meanwhile, try not to fixate on every little thing that can go wrong - espeically to other people.  Each couple has a unique set of issues to overcome and your experience will be unique to you.  Hopefully Clomid will work for you and you won't even have to go down the IVF route!

Take care and try and relax until appointments, etc.

Love,

Elaine


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Hi all.

I am surprised at how the JR are currently reviewing their treatment values.

I spoke to Jane, Fiona & Kathy yesterday and each one has agreed with my own assessment & the way in which i intend to have my next cycle. They have no objections to me returning there or with the treatment i have decided to have.

As many of you already know, i have been struggling with the next corse of action to take... here goes.... 

We have decided not to go for another egg donor.

After speaking to several clinics, our more possitive course of action seems to be donor embryo... i still have several personal issues with this.. such as, misscarriage values etc, but my other way of thinking is that i won't have the wait & see crap that comes with donor eggs, ie.. are they any good, still dividing etc.

It really doesn't matter now, which way we all do it.. just as long as it happens, right?

River, ring the JR & ask what there protocol is, they are pretty approachable, although prpare youreslf for a 3 day wait for a call back. The RBH policy used to be a course of 3 months on clomid, whilst waiting for an appt at JR... that was a long time ago though hun & i'm sure that which ever specialist you go through will advise you on what they think best.... as all of us will probably tell you, write down all your issues, discuss YOUR personal issues until YOU understand & are content with the answers. DON'T be fobbed off. & even if they are looking at thier watch every 2 seconds, repeat yourself until you understand..... take a tape recorder in is my advice!

Meet up? my place?  end of January?  xxxxxxxxxxx

Janny. xxx

By the way... my dream job has landed in my lap now that i have decided to have ivf again... bummer


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## River (Oct 23, 2005)

Hi

Thank you so much for your reponses, they have been so helpful. From reading your signatures you have all really been through it, I take my hat off to you.

I think I will almost definately asked to be referred for IVF as by the time I have had the initial appointment, tests etc I am sure several weeks/months will have passed and at least we can try in the meantime. I really hope that I can be prescribed Clomid in the meantime as at least I will feel as if I am being given a helping hand. If my consultant won't prescribe Clomid, do you think it is worth speaking to my GP?

Thanks for the advice on drinking water, I am trying to make an effort with drinking water and am on my third week on no drinking alcohol although still have a couple of cups a tea a day   I take Folic acid but is there anything else I should be taking?

Elaine - You are right about saying I shouldn't fixate on what has happened to other people. It is so easy to do and I know so many good stories as well as bad that it is very easy to get in a right old pickle 

Thanks
Angela
xxx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Hey River,

Hopefully you won't need to go down the IVF route, as hopefully if they have successfully unblocked your tube & they have confirmed that you are ovulating pretty well, clomid will give you the result that we all crave for.

Good luck with the consultant, are you seeing Williams again or one of his side kicks?

I never got a straight answer out of him & finally spoke to a Dr Willis who was at the time an associate at JR.

Look around at different clinics as well & their costings & success rates for ivf.

Struthie seems to have struck it lucky at Great Missenden, and i've been to Care in Northampton as well as the JR. Although Reading do refer you to the JR, you don't have to go there.

As we all pay privately anyway the choice is really up to you.

Best wishes

Jan x


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## River (Oct 23, 2005)

Jan,

Yes- it is Mr Williams      that I am seeing and not looking forward to it one bit. I know what you mean about not giving a straight answer. I am being seen at the Capio in Reading and he seems to be the only one there that is a gynae but specialises in fertility. I was referred to the NHS back in August and have only just got a letter through saying that I can call in to book an initial appointment. By going privately I have already had blood test, dh had SA, TVS and Lap and Dye and several consultatations so I think it has been worth it to cut down on time.
I have stuck with the Capio so far as it is only a 5 minute drive from work so when I have had to have blood tests, appointments etc, it has been really easy to fit them in. I am seriously appalled by this man and I think the sooner I am not under his care the better. 

I had a look at the JR at there success rates seemed to be pretty good. I live nr Pangbourne so location wise it is not too bad. Plus, they have an egg sharing scheme which I am really hoping I can do.
I called them about 5 minutes ago and they said that once they get my referral letter, it usually takes about 2 weeks for an appointment letter, then then appointment is in about 4-6 weeks from them, so about 2 months in total. I am off to Marrakesh on holiday in February so at least that will give me something to focus on in the meantime.

Take care,
Angela
xx


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

*Angela*, sounds like you have a plan! I take multivitamins designed specially for women trying to get pregnant, but a healthy diet, reasonable exercise and a reasonably relaxed attitude (when you can) is what's called for. Try not to get too hung up on things like diet. After all, there are so many myths out there, and we're all trying too hard, that it can affect your wellbeng. Think of it as a chance to change your lifestyle to a slightly healthier one - not that your only reason for doing this is the baby thing.

*Jan * - good luck hun. End of Jan sounds wonderful to me.

For those sensitive, don't read on: Was in the craft shop Flutterbys again today - a woman was in with her 5 month old son. I suggested I hold him as she needed to get something from the car, and it was easy. The more I convince myself that I enjoy being around little ones, the easier it is. We've finished the IVF route and can do no more medically, so I just need to face up to it. After all, I'll need to be able to be around children when they've approved us for adoption and we get to meet our prospective little one.

Love to all xx


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## struthie (Sep 28, 2004)

Janny - after the awful treatmetn we had on the nhs I have to say the chiltern is fantastic,and I would thoroughly recommend them to anyone!


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Sounds like everyone is getting their plan sorted for treatment, moving on, etc.  I am plodding on with this FET cycle although resisting the urge to dash north as my Mum was rushed to hospital on Thursday.  She has been suffering from sciatica for 12 weeks and nothing seems to have helped the pain or the symptoms.  Things became excrutiating and an ambulance was called by the doctor.  An x-ray has revealed a herniated, compacted disk, which is leaking.  She was discharged the same day without seeing an orthopaedic consultant and just prescribed morphine-based painkillers.  She can't walk!  I am really angry as she has been suffering for months and has been fobbed off by everyone.  I am now really pushing her and my Dad to tell their doctor today that they want a private appointment before Christmas.  She was a reception class teacher so 30-odd years of bending over have taken its toll and I feel that she deserves better treatment from the NHS.  She is not one to kick up a fuss as she is a lady with respect for doctors and she only shares her level of pain with us let alone strangers once she is in agony.  My parents have blind faith in the NHS and it is unjustified.  Does anyone have any advice on back injuries?  At the moment she is lying flat in bed all the time.

I have a scan on Thursday so am dithering whether to go up on Friday to see what's what so I can return for the embryo-transfer if they thaw properly w/c 19th.

Take care everyone and sorry for spilling out about my Mum!

Love,

Elaine xx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Elaine,

Well justified as well as i'm concerned!   Any chance of getting a visiting home oseopath or phyiotherapist or something? just a thought.

Keep calm... or try to 

Struthie, i've rang the chiltern.. no embryo's in stock at the mo  - oh for the want of christmas shopping!!!

4 days until i'm on that plane - get me outta here!!!! 

Take care... love ya xxxxx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Jan!

Have a fantastic holiday and make sure you really relax!

Love,

Elaine x


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## River (Oct 23, 2005)

Hi Everybody

Elaine - sorry to hear about your Mum. My mum suffered with Sciatica for years and eventually had an operation. She still has pain for 6 months after, but then - no pain at all.

Jan - hope you have a good holiday.

I am going to ask a stupid questions. I was looking at the JR Price list and noticed a cost of approximately 2400 for an IVF Cycle, plus drugs and approx 1750 for a satellite cycle.
I understand that a satellite cycle is where you can have initial tests at other clinics and just go to the JR for the EC and ET. So does this mean that that the 1750 charge is to the John Radcliffe and then you pay the sat clinics for anything you have done. I am going to phone the JR tomorrow but if you know the answers please can you let me know. Also, I live in reading, does anybody know where there satellite locations are in/near reading?

Sorry for all my stupid questions
Thanks
Angela
x


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Hi Angela, x

Yep you've got it.... anything extra is payable separately.

I can have some of the tests ran at the local hospital to me - but you are then liable for their costs.
Some GP's will fund the tests at thier clinic, but they are few & far between.

Struthie... i recieved the info pack from the chiltern this morning   2 year waiting list for donor embryo's & they are imported from a satellite clinic in spain!  the cost is a staggering £5400! & a further £800 for the initial drugs


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## struthie (Sep 28, 2004)

Blimey Janny thats some wonga!

Enjoy your holiday xxx


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## Hayley E (Apr 1, 2004)

Hi Elaine, so sorry to hear about your mum.  Fingers crossed for next week 

Angela, I attend the satelite clinic of Harley St Fertility Clinic and it's on the A4 Bath Rd opposite the Dunedin hospital (the road from town to Theale).  You have the majority of your appts and scans there on a Wednesday with EC/ET in Harley Street which is only a few stops on the Bakerloo line to Regents Park on the Bakerloo line.  Don't worry about Mr Williams, he is the devil incarnate.  Once you're referred to either the JR/Harley Street or wherever you choose to go, you won't need to see him again. I certainly hope I never have to see him again either!  Just brace yourself before you go into see him.

Janny, lovely to see you posting again, have a lovely holiday.

Hello to everyone else.

Lots of love

Hayleyxxx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Hi Hayley, nice to see you back   Looks as though you've been busy whilst you have not been posting.

1 more day to go & then i'm off... woohoo 

Just want to say HAPPY CHRISTMAS & NEW YEAR & may all our dreams come true       

Love ya loads  Jan xxx


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

have a fab holiday Jan, happy christmas

H4M
XX


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Everyone!

Just a quick update and to wish Jan & Jason a fantastic holiday, great Christmas and a fabulous New Year!

Mum is receiving much more support from her doctor and nurse but the pain isn't subsiding.  She has decided to postpone Christmas as she doesn't want us up there worrying about her if I have embryos inside me.  It also means that she won't force herself to get out of bed in agony just because we are there.  So I am sending a box-full of goodies by post today and we are going to have Christmas in January when she is feeling better!  My Dad is off ski-ing for a week in January with my cousin so it is likely that I will go up there to look after her then.

I had a scan yesterday and the womb-lining is at 8.5mm - anything over 7mm is good.  That magic triple line was there as well - not that it has helped before!  So I phone up this afternoon to find out when they want to do the FET - probably Monday or Tuesday!  I am petrified that the embryos won't survive the thawing process and I will be left with nothing to put back so it is hard to relax.

Dave and I will obviously go to my parents if that happens.  We have friends with kids visiting between Christmas and New Year so it will be hard to cope if the embryos don't survive the thawing process.

Anyhow, just playing the waiting-game again - nothing new but still unbearable!

Will post soon to keep you updated in case you are interested.

Love,

Elaine x

PS Hayley - thanks for your kind message.


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

just a quick note with wet nail varnish to say for once I'm off too - a weekend in Paris with DH and some work colleagues - but it's going to be fun. We go by Eurostar which DH hasn't been on.

Will catch up properly and post next week.

Love to all


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Happy Christmas 

See you all next year.  

Elaine, take care..... all will be okay hun 

Love you all loads xxxxxxxxxx    Jan  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi Elaine

Just a quickie to let you know I am thinking about you. I reaaallly hope it goes well for you this time. Try not to worry too much (daft thing to say but you know what I mean)

Jess - have a lovely time in Paris

Jan - have a fab holiday

Love

H4M
xxx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

^

NahNah^ 



Jan  

Behave whilst i'm gone


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## struthie (Sep 28, 2004)

Have a great time Janny,you too Jess.

Elaine - of course we're interested,good luck to you xxx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Girls!

The embryo transfer is planned in for noon on Monday.  They will phone us if the embryos don't survive the thaw as there would be no point going in!  I have the acupuncturist on standby as well as he will do a treatment on either Monday afterwards or Tuesday as it is supposed to improve the chances.  Then I have two reflexology appointments - one on Wednesday and one on Friday.  After that I can do no more!

Thanks for your kind messages.  Trying to remain upbeat but until noon on Monday, I think I will be a nervous wreck!

Have great weekends everyone!

Love,

Elaine xx


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## River (Oct 23, 2005)

Good luck Elaine.

I will keep my fingers and toes crossed for you.
Love,

Angela
x


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## yonny (Mar 5, 2005)

Elaine!!
Thinking of you today! Hope all is going well!!
yonny x


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Thanks for all your kind messages - I feel very comforted in the knowledge that I am not facing this alone but people are thinking and praying for me.

The embryos defrosted well!  I had the pair put back just after noon - one in each horn.  The white flash went on for seconds so we saw the liquid at least.  They almost looked luminous!

I have acupuncture at 4.30p.m. so after that I can do no more!

Thank you all and love to you all,

Elaine xx


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi Elaine

Fingers, toes andeverything else that is humanly possible are crossed for you. I truly hope that this is your time. 

Good luck honey.

Love

H4M
xx


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## Just Jess (Sep 23, 2004)

Elaine - Good luck hun. Hope you've got lots of pressies to wrap to keep you occupied over the next 2 weeks - well 1 week, and hopefully lots of toys for you to unwrap and play with.


xx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Everyone!

Thanks River, H4M, Yonny, Jess, Pink Panther, Hayley, Struthie, Jan, etc.  It really helps to know that I am among friends, who understand what I am going through.

As for keeping myself occupied, Jess, I have the Christmas Cake to marzipan and ice, am working two days this week, have two reflexology appointments and another acupuncture appointment - note the desperate measures this time!  Along with a few presents to wrap, neighbours' cards to deliver and no doubt a few frantic trips to the post office to send cards to the people I missed out, whose cards I receive out of the blue!  Not to mention buying vegetables, perishables, and collecting the turkey.  As there is just Dave and me here for Christmas, we are not going over board.  I have par-baked baguettes in the cupboard, two loaves in the freezer and will make do with those rather than stoop to panic-buying things that will end up being wasted!  

We have really cut back on Christmas presents to family, friends and each other as I am earning a lot less and what I do earn pays for fertility treatment.  I also have to fine a few grand to pay a tax bill at the end of January so there won't be many presents to wrap or unwrap!  In fact I have given people home-made pickles, mincemeat, chutneys and mince-pies to my older friends without kids. I feel a bit like Mrs Beeton but everything was made with love!

After Christmas we have our friends with two kids coming - 4 and 2 so no doubt I will be run ragged - playing games at some awful hour of the morning and then taking them to the local farm to see the animals to wear them out!  Once they have gone, we are usually exhausted!  That leaves New Year, which will be harder to cope with the waiting but I will just have to busy myself with cooking, watching DVDs or going for long-walks as I can't go swimming.  At least Dave will be here all the time so I won't be left worrying on my own.  A phsychiatrist friend of mine has told me to lie on the sofa listening to classical music each day with my eyes closed if I start to feel stressed and to stroke the cat!

I wish you all a very merry Christmas and a fantastic New Year.  I'll try to post only when I am having a hard time with the wait.

Lots of love to you all,

Elaine xx


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## struthie (Sep 28, 2004)

So glad to hear all went well Elaine,good luck to you,you certainly are a battler and you deserve some good news - that goes for everyone xxx


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi Girls

Hope you all had a good Christmas.

Elaine - I hope everything is still going well with you.

I start the roller coaster again on the 29th December - EC/ET around 6th Feb!

Can't decide whether I am excited to be having another go and at that remote chance of it working or dreading the disappointment and heartache again. 

This is a difficult road we travel isn't it?

Maybe 2006 will be our time? We can but live in hope eh?

Take care everyone.

Love

H4M
xx


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

hi there i hope u dont mind me joining this thread i am looking to meet ppl and chat to ppl from the Reading and Oxford area - i live near Reading and me and DH are being seen at the Royal Berks Hospital

Speak soon

Kate


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Welcome Kate - you'll find us very friendly!

H4M  Thanks for thinking of me and good luck with the sniffing!  Don't dwell on what went wrong last time but what will go right this time as the doctors know exactly what they are dealing with this time round!

I don't feel pregnant at all.  In fact I have absolutely no symptoms even from the tablets and pessaries.  I just feel a bit down because I think that it hasn't worked yet again.  I know that it is early days and I am jumping the gun but I am preparing myself for the worst!  I have reflexology this afternoon so maybe she can help bouy me up a bit!

I hope that everyone is having a great Christmas break and that Santa's sack was bulging with fertility success for everyone on this thread!

Love,

Elaine xx


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

hi there elaine and thank u for welcoming me xxx

Take care

Kate xx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Happy New Year everyone!

BFN this morning for me.  Sorry to be the bearer of sad tidings.

Love,

Elaine x


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## yonny (Mar 5, 2005)

Oh Elaine, Im so sorry, thinking of you x


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

I'm Baaaaack  

HAPPY NEW YEAR  

Elaine, i have sent you a pm......  

I would like to make good on my invitation for the next meet up.... would anybody like to suggest a date.... saturday is the best day for me as i'm at work all week... how about  21st January or 4th February?

Welcome to the madhouse Kate. 

Love you all    Jan .


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Oh Elaine

I am so sorry honey. Just wanted to let you know that I am thinking about you.

Love

H4M
xxx


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## River (Oct 23, 2005)

Elaine

Really sorry to hear your news
Take care
Angela
x


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## struthie (Sep 28, 2004)

Elaine - hope you are doing ok xxx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Hey guys 

I have to day confirmed my appointment at the JR for discussions over egg donor & ocyte IVF.

The lady i spoke to today was very off ... nothing new as i have encountered this before at JR.
Bit fed up with the whole process & nothing seems to be encouraging me to carry on.

We all go through this, it's just being sat here at work - bored stiff... loads to do, but nothing inspiring me to get on with it .

Take care peeps.

Love Jan xxx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Ladies,

Thanks for all your kind messages.  AF started yesterday so that doubly-confirmed the negative.  I am now feeling rather numb about everything again.  I have a meeting at the JR towards the end of Feb. to discuss whether there is anything we could do differently next time if we do another FET cycle - i.e. baby aspirin, etc.  If not, I feel that we are just going through the motions of causing heartache and pain.

The acupuncturist is due to phone me tomorrow for a chat as I have made it quite clear that I am left heartbroken and broke - he was adamant that I will get pregnant, which is either quite cruel, misguided or very dangerous.  I want to know what he suggests next.  I think that the least he can do is offer reduced rates or free sessions as I have spent £300 for 10 sessions and have nothing to show for it!  Bad enough that hospitals can command such high rates with no guarantees but when all the alternative practitioners jump on the band-waggon, to offer high hopes to fertility patients, things are a bit wrong.

I now have an alternative method of trying to help myself!  I have taken up yoga classes again to try to learn to relax.  In addition to that, I have decided to make a huge effort to lose the last 1.7 - 2 stones of weight and to get fit.  My periods went haywire when I got above 11 stones and that is when the PCOS symptoms really kicked in.  My thinking is that if my weight gets to the ideal level I might just start ovulating naturally again.  If nothing else, I will benefit from being fitter and making myself leave the house.  So despite the AF I have an appointment with a fitness instructor at the gym to work out a sensible routine, which is varied enough to stop me becoming bored rigid!  So Struthie - as you are a weight-loss champion, any good suggestions would be much-appreciated, thanks!

Everyone is telling me to try and forget about ttc - to just get on and enjoy life.  Easy for them to say!

I'll be in touch soon to let you know how I am getting on but I might just have a break from this site for a week or so until after my 38th birthday - not looking forward to that milestone.

Love,

Elaine xx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Happy Birthday Elaine   
I know exactly how you feel   especially with 41 rapidly approaching.

Take care & you know where i am if ya want me  

Love Jan. x


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## struthie (Sep 28, 2004)

Elaine - it sounds like a good plan,weight loss champion,oh I like the sond of that!
All I did was healthy eating and exercise,walked as much as I could,no magic miracles but it did work!

Wishing you so much lukc in whatever you decide to do.

Janny - its such a shame that you can't be treated at the Chiltern they treat you with respect.

We must get this meet up organised,mind you I live miles away from you all


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## yonny (Mar 5, 2005)

Hi Girlies!!

Sorry I havent really been on awhile but DH lost his laptop and has nicked mine till he replaces it..................therefore I find myself pc less during the day!!!

I dont have any update apart from DH having his op on his variocele next week and then.......................well, thats anyones guess!
Im at a bit of a loss actually,
the focus seems to have come off me (not a bad thing) and on to DH in that our GP has told us to wait and see if the op works and we conceive naturally, but as I said in an earlier post, we aint getting any younger!!!!!!!!!

Im still doing my acupuncture, yoga etc but seem to have come to a bit of a stand still!

Anyhow, enough about me!
Jan, at the mo I can make both those dates but I am on standby so it could change!
Elaine, if you do find any magic formula for shifting the weight honey then let me know! Hope you are doing ok!XX
Struthie,hey how are you? when you back at the Chilterns?
Hi Angela, Kate and H4M, hope all is ok with you guys?
Hi to anyone Ive missed!

DH whingeing for PC so have to run!!

Take care all 
love
yonny x


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## struthie (Sep 28, 2004)

Hi Yonny 

I should be there in a week or so,waiting for af then starting donor IVF,egg sharing this time too,hope you are well xxx


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## yonny (Mar 5, 2005)

Hi struthie!!

Glad you're ok, hope Christmas and New year were good for you! 

I know it sounds a bit bah humbug but I am glad its all over!
I bet im not the only one either, we're all waiting and hoping to see what 2006 will bring!!!

As for this morning!!!! Its brought me mice!!!! In the conservatory, merrily chewing away on my sofa with my two great big (guard! huh!) dogs watching them happily!
So now i have to go get traps! (unless anyone has any more humane ideas? Im not a killer but I really dont want them here!!!!)

Struthie, I spoke to 'Cliff Richard' (from the Chilterns!!!) this morning!
he says he thinks it would be a good idea to carry on with ICSI alongside DH having his op and see what happens. I guess It cant do any harm so Im also in there next week (wednesday) to start the ball rolling so to speak!

Anyhow, hope everyone else is well,
off to save my conservatory!!!! 

Bye for now
Yonny x


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## struthie (Sep 28, 2004)

Yonny - I still cannot see the likeness to Cliff Richard!!

Yes I'm glad xmas is over,lets hope 2006 is our year!

Good luck next week are you seeing the con or the nurses?


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi guys,
I hope it's ok to join you on here.  We start our first IVF in March at the JR, about which I am both scared and excited.  I am convinced that 2006 will hold great things for all of us!
xx Clare


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## yonny (Mar 5, 2005)

Hi Clare and welcome!!!! 

Our problem is MF as well, a variocele, so hubby is having that treated before we go any further.If it doesnt work we hope to start in Feb/March also!!

Keep us posted with all that happens!

I think thats what keeps us all sane by reading each others stories!!

Take care and catch up with you soon! 

Yonny x


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Sooooo, you horrible lot 

Who's interested in a meet up then ? 

Hi Clare, best wishes  

Jan x


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Jan!

Count me in - name a time, date and place and I will be there!

The horrible endo. pain has gone but I have obviously still got tension in my back from being curled up in agony because I can hardly move my head as the should/neck pain is so bad!  I am off to yoga to see if that makes a difference and then will try the sauna.

Just have to ice my father-in-law's cake for his surprise 65th birthday party on my birthday on Saturday - don't ask!

My reflexologist is phoning up the acupuncturist to ask some searching questions as to his treatment thus far as I am less than convinced that he has listened to me about the endo pain, PCOS - never mind the Frozen Embryo Cycle.  I wish I had the fight left in me to have the same conversation but I am glad that Annette is on my case for me!

Anyhow I doubt if I can post now before Monday so have great weekends everyone.

Love,

Elaine x


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi guys,
We have had our date through for our evening presentation - Feb 15th.  AF is due around that date, so we may be starting immediately, or a few weeks later.  Today I told my boss & my team, as I know I won't be able to hide treatment from them.  They were all very supportive, but a bit too 'excited' for me!  I'm trying to stay chilled about it ('it's just another option' - that sort of attitude) and I think they think there's a guaranteed baby at the end of it!  Oh well, they'll learn!
DH swept me away to a lovely hotel in Bibury (Cotswolds) for our anniversary on Wednesday.  He had booked us in for a massage, and we had a gorgeous time.  We are both off the alcohol in preparation for tx, so we felt a bit odd just drinking water with our roast pheasant!!  
On a 7am-7pm shift tomorrow   so am going to go home to bed now.
Love to all & hope to get to know you all soon.  I would love to meet up and can be fairly flexible if I have enough notice.
xx Clare


----------



## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

*Clare*.

Welcome. How lovely of your DH to take you away for your anniversary.

Time does go really quickly from that 1st meeting to starting treatment. They should give you an appointment at the meeting - I seem to remember it was quite soon afterwards. Starting the tx is also dependent on having had all the tests etc so you may not start with this af, so don't be disappointed if that happens. Good luck with it all.

*Elaine*
How are you doing? Hope you're ok? Take care of your self.

*Jan*
Let us know when and where and I will try to be there!

*everyone else*
Hope you are all well.

I am d/r at the moment - just got to the bit where I cry for no apparent reason - really freaks my DH out, also really knackered too - had a manic week at work, travelling length and breadth of country training, but I haven't got any more scheduled til after tx over. Will start stimming on 26th and ec/et sometime after 6th Feb. Feeling a bit low about it all at the mo, trying hard to stay positive but hard after no fertilisation last time. But each tx is a new chance I suppose and they know that much more this time round so will keep fingers and everything else crossed for a better outcome.

Anyway enough of me. Look after yourselves.

Take care

H4M
xxx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

MEET UP !!!!!!!!!


******** 4th FEBRUARY ****************


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

4th Feb is perfect for me - when & where?!

H4M - you are quite right, I was getting carried away & wanting my tx to start NOW!  I have to have an MIR scan & DH has to do another SA, and we have to have our pre-treatment consultation with the nurse.  As AF is due the day after the evening presentation, it looks as though we will have to start with March's cycle.

Hope everyone is OK - looking forward to meeting up.
xx Clare


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi everyone!

Back to the land of the living!  Birthday and F-I-L's 65th surprise party over and done with.  I saw a retired physchiatrist/therapist last night for about an hour an a half.  She wants me to stop putting my life on hold in case I am successful and get a positive but rather do something that I want to do for me other than be a Mum - whether I retrain, start working full time again, write a book--- Just as long as I don't dwell on the negative side of infertility.  Apparently our thoughts affect our emotions so if we can learn to control them so that they are positive, then we can control our emotional state.  She has given me some relaxation tapes and thinks it's a good idea if I get out of the house to do keep fit, yoga and swimming.

We should all apparently recognise what skills we have and use them rather than suspending life because babies are not happening.  She acknowledges that it is easier said than done but if we can try and occupy our minds positively, we stand a better chance of being more relaxed and things working out better for us in the long run.

Anyhow, I am just about to look through charity job vacancies, etc. - something I would love to do despite the low salary!

Jan - I can do the 4th.
Everyone else - all the best with the treatment. H4M - crying is good - it does help cleanse out those crappy emotions!

Take care and see you all on the 4th!

Love,

Elaine


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Hi all  

Nice to see you around Elaine xxx  if you'd like an evening swim partner, i can do every other week. xx

Where is everybody comming from?

I'd like to hold the orgy at my house, but if it's more convenient somewhere else, it's fine with me either way.

For those of you who don't know - i'm in Swindon............

Love to everybody


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

I'm coming from Chipping Norton (north/west oxon) but happy to drive any distance.

xx Clare


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Elaine, Clare, i'm gonna leave this to you 2 to sort out....   as you're not too far away from each other.

Anybody else like directions?

See ya all soon..  xxx Janny.


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

hi janny bear and yonny thankyou for welcoming me

Have had my HSG this week the doc said it went fine and looks ok but have follow up appointment on 1st feb - glad that experience is out the way i do not want to go through that again!

Kate xx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Clare,

If you want to travel to Carterton first, I can drive to Jan's from there as I know the way.  

Jan - what time do you want to start your do or have I missed that?  As for swimming, I go to the Greens near Witney so it might be a bit far for you.  When the nights become lighter, perhaps we can do a walk instead?  Anything to shift that extra flab!!  Yoga is ok but does not help me lose weight - need to do something which involves getting sweaty, which is a bit of a turn-off for me!

Have great weekends everyone!

Love,

Elaine x


----------



## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi all,
Elaine, that's great - I can come to yours & am happy to drive to Janny's if you navigate!

At work at the mo so no time to post - hope you're all having good weekends, it's been a beautiful day here!

xx Clare


----------



## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi Janny

I'm really sorry but I can't make the meet up.

Hope you all have a great time.

Sorry.

H4M


----------



## yonny (Mar 5, 2005)

Hi all!
In Japan at the mo so been a bit quiet!
Havent yet been rostered anything for $th feb Janny but if im around Id love to come, cheers!
Yonny x


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

H4M - sorry you can't make the meet-up - we'll be thinking of you & sending you positive thoughts ready for e/c.  I'm really looking forward to meeting everyone & having a good chat.

Yonny - wow, Japan, how exciting!  I'm sure you're used to all the travel now, but it must be amazing to see so many places.  Will you be grounded during your tx?

Jan - thanks for organising the meet; what time do you want us & would you like us to bring anything?

Elaine - have you used your relaxation tapes yet?  I have one I play if I can't sleep at night - it takes me through breathing exercises & I find it really helpful.

Love to all, hope your Mondays weren't too bad!  

xx Clare


----------



## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi - don't laugh but I have been too busy to play the relaxation tapes and listen to the cd yet!!!
I am however off to reflexology today!

My cat has had digestive problems so I have been busy visiting the vets and struggling to syringe medicine down her throat.

Jan - all the best for your appointment at the JR tomorrow.  I hope that they tell you what you want to hear.  Give me a call if you need to talk.

Love,

Elaine x


----------



## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Thanks Elaine  

will let you all know on thursday as i'm not in tomorrow.
Taking day off the psyche myself up.  for the appointment at 3pm.

Would it be ok for about 11.30?  i can get some lunch, nibbles etc. underway.

Hopefully i will have finished the majority of decorating by then 

See you all soon.  lol  Jan x


----------



## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi all,
Elaine - hope you enjoyed your reflexology.  I always feel as though I'm floating when I come out!

Jan - hope today's appointment goes well.  I have had a shift change and now have to work on the 4th Feb.  I'm so sorry, I was really looking forward to meeting you all.      Perhaps some other time...

Can I ask a question about drugs at the JR?  I was looking on one of the other threads & had no idea (stupid me) that the cost of drugs would vary so much.  With your previous tx did anyone shop around?  Do you have any idea how the clinic's prices compare?

Have great days, everyone,
xx Clare


----------



## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Aww Clare, never mind.. we can always meet up at a later date. 

My appointment at JR has left me more bemused than ever.

I always feel like they are fobbing me off.

After waiting 45 mins after my scheduled appointment, we were finally submitted to the usual whaffle... sorry guys, but this has been pretty much the norm since going there for the past 10 years.

I feel as though they have given up on me   same old excuses & non commital chit chat.
I can understand their attitudes as they don't want to get your hopes up too high etc, but i do feel that they could be a bit more enthusiastic.

Anyway, after being asked, at what point we would be prepared to resign ourselves to childlessness & perhaps adoption would be more advantageous, & the old weight hint,& of course age factor! i think that we will not be offered a place for Oocyte treatment. We have to wait & see a councillor - only the 4th one we will have seen -& also have all the tests ran again.

Jan Moore was also unable to confirm the cost that i had been given the day before by Kate/Kathy...

Oocyte IVF was quoted at £1400 + drugs.

Hopefully we will be accepted, but i don't really want to have to wait another year or so for treatment.

Love you all loads. Take care.. Jan


----------



## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Jan,

Keep your chin up - they have not said no and that is a good thing.  The counsellor thing must be standard for receiving donated embryos as there are loads of things to consider and they are just making sure that you know everything.  The bloods would need doing nearer the treatment to ensure that you are not wasting your money and that there is nothing missing that they might have to suppliment.  The thing that I think you should concentrate on is that the donated embryo will come from a couple, who is much younger and they have proved that they can have kids with their embryos as their families are complete.  If they put in two, you might end up with twins!  

Losing the weight applies to all of us carrying extra tonnage!!  It does improve your health and thereby your chances.  My view is that we should all try and get our bodies in peak condition as if we are preparing for a normal pregnancy.  Extra weight causes complications in pregnancy - high blood pressure, risk of diabetes, etc.  If nothing else, you benefit from taking care of yourself and that can be the thing that you can concentrate on whilst awaiting letters and appointments.  It also shows the doctors the lengths you are prepared to go to and that you mean business.

I know that it is a nause to have to eat less especially when most of us comfort eat because we are not parents and we are unhappy with the situation but we need to try and break the cycle of feeling negative.  At least if we go and join exercise classes, go swimming, go for walks, we are not sitting at home brooding and stuffing our faces with chocolate!  It gives us a change of scenery and the good thing is that the other women are usually not pregnant but are just there to get fit and lose weight as well so we automatically have something normal in common with them rather than ttc.

One thing that I know we all resent is the fact that we are free to come and go whenever we please without it being a major excercise because we don't have a child but I bet you that as soon as any of us do have kids, the first thing we will do is wish that we had made better use of our free time.  I am beginning to realise that sometimes I forget to live a lot of the time and just exist.  Perhaps I should take up something I couldn't do if I had kids like badger-watching, going out for more meals at night, dogging ---- now I am only joking about that!!!  I am just trying to cheer you up!  I must make clear that I only found out what that meant a short while ago and it still shocks me what people get up to!!

Anyhow Jan, let's meet up soon and have a joint moan about IF but at the same time, rejoice a little bit that we are not struggling with sleepless nights, snot-nosed kids, pooey nappies and projectile vomiting for just a little longer!!

Love,

Elaine xx        

PS Just gone mad with the emoticons because you always take time to add them and I usually can't be bothered!


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Elaine,

YOU ARE A NUT   have you tried whale watching 

I'm actually contemplating giving up work 

I spend so much time working that i'm unable to get out & about & get some ME time.
If it wasn't for the money, i'd quite happilly leave tomorrow.

I've been going to the work gym(which is free) during my lunch break, but i'm knackered all afternoon! 

By the time i get home at 6.30, my bed is screaming at me, in fact when Jason works night's i've been falling asleep on the sofa at about 8pm... then with the alarm clock (who invented them things ) going off at 5 & back at work.....

My car is up for sale, so will have to go with a go-ped for a while 

I'm so knackered at the moment - even the concrete pavement looks like a pillow.



As for being childless - IT'S NOT AN OPTION  IT WILL HAPPEN... this is just another obstacle that HAS to be overcome.

Jan xx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Jan!

I'd rather be a nut than boring!  Whale-watching - yeah, I just need to look in the bathroom mirror for that!  I could donate a fair bit of blubber to the Japanese whaling fleet!  

Sounds like you need some multi-vitamins including zinc and iron in particular.  Are you sure that you aren't anaemic?  That makes you tired all the time - either that or you are very down at the moment.  Believe me, giving up work makes the four walls close in around you and the depression sets in very quickly.  Sticking to a working routine is better.  Replacing work with not working gives you less stress initially but once the money worries mount up, they far outweigh the stress of working. Not working gives you more time to worry about IF and replay that stuck record in your head.  Think long and hard before making money worries worse is my advice!

Now this nut is going to walk her cat around the garden because she is scared of outside!!  (The cat, not me!)

Take care and remember to chill tonight!

Love,

Elaine x


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

No i'm not anaemic... just alergic to work   (working 52 hours a week does'nt help)

I've bought some multi vitamins as you have suggested   so if i don't feel better soon - i'm gonna blame it on yoooooo 

(elaine  shhhhhhhh... but i think we scared 'em all off )

whale watching goes along with doggin hun  

byeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

janny bear said:


> (elaine shhhhhhhh... but i think we scared 'em all off )


It was the dogging that scared me...

Sorry your appt was frustrating, Jan, and I hope you start to hear some more positive answers soon.

Got told off by a lady called Kate at the clinic today; I phoned to try to get my pre-treatment appt date so I could make some plans for the next couple of months. She told me that everyone else was quite happy to wait for the evening presentation & pick up their dates then. Ooops. Still, she warmed up in the end, and fitted me in earlier than planned, which is great. Should be all systems go for March.

Love to all,
xx Clare


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi everyone!

The dogging was an extreme comment to Jan because she was feeling so down!!!  I really thought it was taking dogs for a walk and meeting up with other people with dogs.  It was only last year when I made a prat of myself when some footballer either admitted it or was found out - I asked what it was in a loud voice.  I was really shocked when the people I was with had to explain to me!  I still can't quite believe that people get turned on by it.  Another relevation was friends telling me about feeders - men who feed their wives until they are enormous and cannot do anything for themselves anymore.  There are some real weirdos in this world!

Happily I am so normal on that side of things that I remain blissfully ignorant of most things that go on.  Even if I have to ask my DH what everything weird is!  Rather worryingly he seems to know all the answers -um, that has got me thinking how he knows all the answers!  Life in RAF, I suppose!

Jan, I hope the multivitamins help!  52 hours are enough to tire anyone working.

Clare - Kate is lovely when you get to know her!  She is probably not used to people being so desperate for appointments that they phone her up before the open evening.

Right, back to work!

Love,

Elaine x


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Elaine, i love you to bits    You have to learn by the hard way  

Miss you all loads. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

hi guys thought i would say hello as havnt done for a few days!

Am getting nervous about my follow up appoinment on weds following my HSG - i know the doctor said it looked ok but still worried  

Kate


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi all,
Hope your weeks have started ok.

Kate - sending you lots of   thoughts for Wednesday, but it doesn't sound as tho there's anything to worry about, honey  

Elaine, the dogging comment did make me smile!  You're right, there are some REALLY odd people out there!!  Kate wasn't *not* nice, btw, she was very helpful.  I promise I wasn't desperate - we have to go away in March & it was starting to get a bit late to book leave so we really had to know the dates.  She's been able to give our original appt to another couple who really needed one in March, which is great.

Jan, hope you are feeling better x

Love to all,
xx Clare


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Hey Hunnies  

Best wishes with the appointment Kate 

When's your appointment Clare?

Hayley, are you still out there? we are still thinking of you & sending you loads of love for your embies.   

Elaine, good luck & best wishes for your interview, they couldn't get a better lady for the job   

Good news for me... JR have accepted me, there a 2 embryo's with my name on them sat in the freezer - yipeeeeeeeee  
Bloods & councillor appointment on thursday, so the ball is moving again.......

Take care my little friends. xxxxxxxx


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## Hayley E (Apr 1, 2004)

Hi Janny and everyone else, hope you're all ok.

Just saw your post Janny and as you mentioned me personally thought I'd reply, I got a BFP yesterday and I am still in complete and utter disbelief.  This was my 7th attempt and so I honestly was beginning to think that it was never going to work for me, but so far so good.  It's very early days however so I'm taking absolutely nothing for granted.

Glad to hear you've got a couple of frosties with your name on them Janny, mine was a frozen cycle so they can and do work.  I'm so happy for you and have got everything crossed for you for a positive result, it's about time you had some good news.

Elaine, what can I say.  You have been the greatest support to me, although we don't actually physically speak to eachother very often, it's been a constant comfort to me to know that you're out there, thank you so much.  You're such a kind, strong and caring person, you truly deserve the very best.  Please be reassured that IVF can and does work but that for some us it takes a lot longer, I am the ultimate example of that.

Love and best wishes to you all.

Hayleyxx


----------



## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Congratulations Hayley  

Elaine & I are meeting up on saturday.  If you'd like to come, you are more than welcome. xx


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## Hayley E (Apr 1, 2004)

Thank you so much Janny, I really appreciate your kind wishes.  I do appreciate that although we are pleased at other people's success, it can also be painful - it's human nature.

Thanks for the offer of meeting up but I'm supporting Steve at a table football tournament where he'll be dressed up as a nun - don't ask!!!

Hope you have a great time.

Lots of love

Hayleyxx


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## Celia (Jun 8, 2002)

Hayley

What wonderful news! I know it's early days yet, but I will keep my fingers crossed for you that everything goes smoothly and you have a very healthy and happy nine months ahead of you.

Janny - good luck with your next cycle.

I do think of you all and hope that 2006 brings you those much-longed for babies. 

Celia


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

Thankyou claire and janny bear for your thoughts i will post tomorrow and let u know how it went

Speak soon

Kate


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## struthie (Sep 28, 2004)

Well done Hayley,hope all goes well for you xxx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Hayley!

Wow!  At long last we have another positive on this thread!  It has been nearly nine months since Alison got hers and very nearly coming into this world.  Well done, love - you deserve it as all of us do.  I reckon that that cyst was the biggest issue and once that was out of the way - Bob's your uncle!  Don't be a stranger and we are here to support you.  Here's wishing you the best pregnancy going - not sure whether you should tell the child about his dad dressing up as nuns...!  Could scar him/her for life!

Hi Clare!

Good luck today - I didn't mean desperate in the negative sense but in the positive sense that you were wanting to know the date!  I should have used eager or keen!  All the best today - you'll be fine.  We are here for you regardless of the outcome.

To Struthie, Jan, the Sarahs, H4M etc.  Let's not give up just yet - in over two years on this thread, there have been at least 7 positives so although some of us like Jan and myself are not so fortunate despite the many years we have been trying, there's definitely hope.  Jan and I are obviously saving ourselves for the grande finale of going for twins!!  

Jan - see you on Saturday!

Love,

Elaine xx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Hi all xxxx

Yeah   the big finale 

If this cycle doesn't work... i'm off to Kiev.  I've been reading some posts from the abroadies thread & the clinic there will replace 5 or 6 fertilised eggies in one go to over 40's !!!

From what i can see, nearly everybody on there has been successful   even with that many implanted there has only been 1 set of twins.

We just have to keep at it 

Love to all of you.

Best wishes for today Clare. 


Jan x


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi all,

Love the photo Janny!  It's nice to see what people look like!  So glad that you've been accepted - it must be a great feeling to know that your embryos are waiting for you in the freezer!

So lovely to hear about BFPs, and to hear such positivity    

Elaine, when is your interview?  Good luck with it!

Well, I have had my MRI scan, so now we feel like things are actually starting to happen.  Everyone told me how claustrophobic it can be, but I had such a manic day yesterday that I enjoyed the nap!!  Rob does his SA on the 9th, our evening presentation is on the 15th & our pre-tx appt on the 22nd.  March's AF is due on the 10th, so hopefully that will fit in.  

Kate, let us know how the appt went today, honey.

xx Clare


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Clare,

is your nicname Olive as in 'on the buses'  heheheheheh, SORRY.. i'v got a silly sence of humor. (my ex father in law used to have a sort of casino club & Olive was one of the strippers!!!! she's also played aunt Sal in Eastenders if you haven't a clue who i'm on about)

Your dress looks lovely. Where did you get married?

Good about the appointments - now the journey begins eh!! 



Elaine.. tell us about the interview  

Kate, how's things going hun xxx

I'm pooing bricketts about tomoz    my bloods had better come back pronto  

see ya laters wally gators. xx


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

LOL Jan - have been called worse in my time!!  We were married in Haddenham, near Thame, but that photo is taken just outside the Randolph Hotel, Oxford, where we had our reception.  Such a lovely day... 
Hope all goes well tomorrow,
xx Clare


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi!

The interview was OK but I lacked experience in dealing with local councils so feel that it went against me - will find out next week whether I have been shortlisted for a second interview.

Hi Kate - how did you get on?  Hopefully fine!

Jan - hope everything is okay tomorrow and that it all goes well with bloods and counselling session, etc.  You can tell me all about it on Saturday!

Am now going to crash in front of the TV - I'll skip the adoption thing as it was quite depressing last week and will watch "Who do you think you are?" with Julian Clary - can't wait to see what skeletons he has in his family tree!

Byee!  Elaine xx


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

hi clare, jannybear and elaine thank u for your thoughts

Today was fine my HSG was all clear so ive had all my tests now and i am fine. Hubby now has to do his 2nd SA and go from there - hopefully the 2nd one he does was a bit better than the first! Was also told today that we will probably have to have ICSI and will cost around £3000 so we have some serious saving to do but have a feeling it could take a long time - kind of thinking that we will never have a baby now  

good luck for tomorrow janny bear

Kate xx


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## LouisandPhoebe (Feb 2, 2006)

Can we join u all - we have/ are having treatment at the OFC


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi Louismummy, What a beautiful boy you have  

Kate, so glad your appt went well & sorry you're feeling glum . The money issue is so hard, isn't it; it shouldn't have to be a decision based on cost, but we have to be practical as well. I hope you figure something out 

How did it go, Jan? 

Elaine, fingers crossed you've been shortlisted 

Love to all & enjoy the meet tomorrow - sorry I can't make it ,
xx Clare


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Hi  

All went exremley well yesterday... Too well   you know when you can quite believe that it was that easy?  

Just waiting for bloods to come back now 

We've got the stats on our donors which we are extactic about.  The couple have had 2 successful pregnancies from this batch, so hopefully we will be ok.

Thank you for your support - i really appreciate it.

Elaine, all will be ok with the interview  

Hi Loismummy xxx nice to meet you hun xx


The main thing with this ivf lark is the money    believe me, i've really stuggled.

Best wishes.

xxxxxxxxx


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Sorry this is a me post!

I had my scan today and have only got 2 follicles.

Absolutely devastated. Am on a high dose of gonal F. Felt like cr*p the whole time I've been stimming and now I only have 2.

May be someone's trying to tell us something.

We're still going ahead with the ec. Might as well now. Have spent so much, might as well see it through. 

It truly will be a miracle if this works.

H4M


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

H,  

When is your ec?  you still have a hope with 2.  They will be 2 big beautiful ones as well.

I've heard girlies on here with 1 foli have a successful birth. 

Big huggies to you   

I'm on & off here all day if ya want someone to scream at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Jan xx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Clare, my mother comes from Thame, she lives in Wallingford now. So i know the area. 
    

Kate where ya gone? Did you see the programme on BBC 2 last night? it was about a ballet dancer who wanted to pay off his existing mortgage in 2 years. It actually gave some sound advise about making money.

I currently have 2 jobs & the thought of taking something else on fills me with absolute dread!

Have been contemplating doing a boot sale - not done one in years. I'm gonna see if i can dig some stuff up from friends etc.

This cycle is the least amount i have ever paid for a cycle, but at the end of the day we just haven't got the cash.

Perhaps we could all get together & do something to raise a bit of cash.....

ANY IDEAS


----------



## LouisandPhoebe (Feb 2, 2006)

Hi its only me again

After this year with the IVF we are gong to stop TTC as we only have till december to use the donated sperm.  If we are successful/ not successful we want to donate any remaining (IF any)  embies and eggs to the clinic.  Does any one know the law on us donating embies if we used donated sperm to conceive them.  We are so grateful for our wonderful son and he was only possible because of someones wonderful gift. As we are a same sex couple we are very keen to give him a sibling.  If this is not possible we are greatful for what we have been blessed with.


----------



## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

I am currently receiving donor egg & have found the whole process extremley daunting, however, i found the donor thread extremley encouraging & helpful.

There is also a same sex thread that you maybe able to find some info from.

I don't know if the laws for same sex couples is the same for hetrosexual regarding donation.

All of donation is extremely complex & is reflected for individual couples situations.

On that note,  i aint even going there !!!!!! 

Jan xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

hello ladies and how are u on this cols friday afternoon?!!!

janny bear - i didnt see the programme - i try so hard - have 2 jobs but then also babysit and am a Avon Sales Leader to save some extra money but still dont think i can save enough! Although i spoke to my hubbys boss as she had twins through IVF which she had to pay for but she said she donated eggs at the same time as u can be paid for this and thats how she paid for the IVF - so am considering looking into this as now ive had all my tests i am all fine!!

Have a good weekend ladies - am off to a charity police ball tomorrow so am looking forward to letting my hair down!

Failing that i will have to give the sob story to my hubbys sister and her hubby who took a yr to concieve their baby and he is a paedatric register in Scotland and they have lots of money - so much that she could give up work for good!!! So wonder if they will lend us a bob or 2 - but very much doubt that!!!

Kate xx


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

Evening all!
Kate, hope you have a great time at the ball.  Is your DH in TVP?  Maybe we've worked together?!  I'm sure your family would want to help out if they knew how difficult things are.  It's a fine balance between working hard to earn the extra money, and stressing yourself out in the process!  

Jan, maybe we should all empty our attics & meet at the Kassam Stadium boot sale to raise some cash?!! I keep hoping I'll find a priceless Ming vase tucked away somewhere... 

H4M, have PM'd you, but sending you lots of love.  This whole process is a miracle - try to stay positive honey.

Love to all,
xx Clare


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

hi clare well last nite was really good  

Yeah my hubby is in Thames Valley Police - do u work in the force as well?

I have also considered selling my wedding dress as it cost enough when i bought it but has hung in the wardrobe ever since!!! But would only do that as a last resort i think!!!

Kate xx


----------



## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi all,
Glad you had a good night, Kate.  I am a Sgt in West Oxon (previously Oxford city) & DH is on traffic.  We have MF infertility too, so I'm convinced it's to do with shift work/poor nutrition/stress & too much driving.  Oh yes, and non-breathable trousers!  

I have been doing the garden tody and feel exhausted but quite virtuous!  Would normally reward myself with a large glass of vino but am going to have some water and some cashew nuts instead!!   

love to all - Elaine/Jan did you have a nice time yesterday?
xx Clare


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Girls - especially H4M - here's hoping for two eggs, which are good quality.  Helsbels on this site only got one poor quality egg to put back and she gave birth to a baby girl last year so there is hope.

Jan and I had a lovely long chat over drinks and some rather naughty cakes at Lechlade Garden Centre.  We discussed where we both are treatment-wise and then shared family issues & then put the world to rights as is the usual format!

As regards lack of funding - should we all send letters/e-mails to David Cameron at least?  I have his e-mail address.  He is obviously very family-oriented and as he is the main guy in opposition, he could maybe have a pop at TB at question time?  Just a thought!

As regards police and IF - we know so many people in the RAF, who have adopted or are going through fertility treatment that I am starting to wonder if it is an occupational hazard as well.  Maybe the radar is to blame?  I concur about the unbreathable material for the uniforms but I reckon that alcohol is also a problem when you have a job in uniform!  But in our case, it is me with all of the problems and I wear natural fibres most of the time as well as not drinking much at all.  I do know that shift work has a huge impact on life and TTC as well.

Take care this week and am sending large hugs to H4M in particular.

Love,

Elaine xx


----------



## LouisandPhoebe (Feb 2, 2006)

How weird with the TVP thing.  My partner works in the Abingdon control rooms for TVP.


----------



## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Elaine we're surrounded!!!    maybe we should become policewomen... actually i think i'd make a good traffic warden  hehheheheh..

Nice to see you on saturday... we don't really get to meet each other too often 


We got a letter from Rozz ( the psychologist at JR) this morning. It say's that in her opinion we are aware of all the legislation, & in her opinion are of sound mind etc.etc. (NO KIDDING ! 10 years of it) Doesn't know me very well dose she  

Kathy at JR has told me today that the results will take up to 2 weeks ..  which as i already know is the norm. Was just hoping that it would be a bit quicker.

Anyway you horrible lot    (Elaine, better not tell them half of what we discuss or get up to - we might get arrested   HOPEFULLY !! heheheheh.

Jan


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

How bizarre!  Louismummy, I'm bound to have spoken to your partner at some point - I'm always getting chase-up calls from control room cos I haven't done something!!  

Don't you find that with IF you are constantly looking for reasons why, especially when you find others in similar situations?  I guess that when you look at the statistics, and realise just how many people suffer from IF, it's not surprising we come across so many other couples in any chosen line of work.  I was talking to one of our personnel managers (1 x successful ICSI at the JR 5 yrs ago) about feeling very alone at work & struggling to work out how I could combine tx with shifts/operational work etc.  I know DH feels the same, so it's so nice to come on here & read about other people in the same boat.  

Elaine, oddly enough I am seeing David Cameron on Thursday as I have to speak at the local Conservative club lunch.  I can't think of anything worse, in fact I would rather endure a five hour smear test than stand in front of 50 middle-aged Tory men, but I don't think that's an option!!  Anyway, tempting tho it is to abandon my planned speech on crime reduction and lay into them about free fertility tx, it might not be the right time...!    I think writing to him is an excellent idea and I will try to put together a letter this week.  

I have finished my garden now & am going to do the housework before DH gets home.
Love to all,
xx Clare

p.s.  Elaine/Jan - glad you had a good time on Sat.  Elaine, give me a shout if you fancy a coffee sometime at Burford garden centre - think it's about halfway between us.  We could always be very good & go for a walk to justify the cakes!! xx


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## LouisandPhoebe (Feb 2, 2006)

As we have to pay for all our IVF (Lee is 29 so doesnt get 1 free go) we have tried to see if our surgery will help with the drug costs.  Has anyone tried this / been successful/ or not?  They said they would have to talk to the PCT


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

I'm going to give this a go - nothing ventured, nothing gained!  I plan to write to my GP first (anticipating a 'no'), then write a follow up letter to the PCT.  The essential point is that by going private (which is by necessity not choice) you are saving the NHS money.  The drugs cost the NHS far far less than the treatment.
xx Clare


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## LouisandPhoebe (Feb 2, 2006)

Thanks for replying clare we went to the doctors today and they are going to ring the PCT.  Lee has her drug appointment on Thursday and has to start takin them on Friday so we left it quite late.  The doctor did not say no she said they have done it before so fingers crossed.  We have saved enough for one and a half IVF treatments so if they pay for the drugs we have enough for 2 after that its remortage or sell the cats !!!


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

hi girlies

Hi clare - i think it must be the shift pattern etc - and yes my DH's trousers are so tight and not breathable atall!! Although he is now doing a 6 month attachment with the prisoner handling unit so he gets to wear his own shirts and trousers so thats good! He is based at Lodden Valley station by J11 of M4. He is looking to do his SGT's exam a year in march as thats the next time he can take the exam.

Hope everyone is feeling ok?

I am feeling a lot more positive this week and concentrating on sorting the house!!!

Kate xx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

I've recently had a no from our PCT.     Eve though we meet the government guidelines.  (they did however provide the prognova for me on prescription - as this is a standard hrt drug)

It seems to be down to the area you live in.

I know that Reading is a deffinate no... & my Mum up to Christmas worked for a GP in Oxfordshire & was also told no.

My cousin is a nurse in Basingstoke & she also has informed me that her surgery is also a no, no.

If anybody does get their drugs - think there will be a que for your gp's 
Individual gp's who do not rely on nhs funding, do however seem to take things on an individual basis.

Best of luck  Jan x


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi Girls

Well had ec yesterday. Got 2 eggs but both not mature enough. Had to wait til 5pm to find out one had matured and been injected. Got the call this morning to say we have one embryo.

Can't believe it as this is the 1st time in 4 1/2 years ttc we have ever got this far. ET tomorrow and then fingers, legs, eyes and everything crossed that our dream comes true.

I know we have a long way to go yet but this is the first time I have allowed myself to feel even vaguely positive about this tx cycle.

Glad your meet up went well Janny & Elaine.

Hope everyone else is ok.

Love

H4M
xx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Seeeeeeee. told ya   

Got everything crossed   Happy 2 week wait


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi everyone,

H4M that's FANTASTIC!!!!
Keeping everything crossed for you honey.

Love to all,
xx Clare


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Dear H4M!

It only takes one...!  All the best with the transfer today and here's to a stress-free 2ww - yeah right!  Like that is possible!  Lean on us as we are all past-masters at the delighful 2ww process.  Get in jigsaws - they worked for Alison - read books, use relaxation tapes, get friends to take your mind off it by visiting you or hauling you out.  The people, who are most distracted by work seem to fare the best!  Sitting at home and worrying does not seem to help.

Hi Clare!

Yes, I am up for a meet-up at Burford Garden Centre anytime - just let me know a time and a place that suits you and your workpattern and I will be there.  We can arrange to meet by the sculpture of the rusty family in the middle of the mini-roundabout on the way in!  No-one else is daft enough to stand there!  You can't fail to recognise me as I am just under 6' tall, have fairly long brown hair, which is always unruly and I have green eyes.

Love to everyone else!

Elaine x


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

hehhehe.. yeah Elaine's the green eyed monster   (only kiddin)

If you could make a saturday, i can come too !!  Elaine's in the middle of me & Clare.

xx


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

hi janny bear - what part of Basingstoke Hospital does your cousin work in? I work there to as a Open uni student nurse!

Kate xx


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi guys!

Wow, all these work connections!  I guess it's a small world after all!  

Elaine, I know the rusty family - that's such a good description!  Jan, Saturdays are difficult for me - I haven't got another one off for another couple of months.  The Saturday after next - Feb 18th - I don't start till 2pm so we could do morning coffee or an early-ish lunch?  I can always go in a bit late.

I've been in Reading on a course today, which was very dull & not very relevant to me, so I've not had a great day.  To top it all, I have just spent £150 on study stuff for my promotion exam this year, only to discover that the CD only works on PCs, not Macs - d'oh!!  VERY annoying.  Just have to see if they'll take it back...
Ho hum, not the end of the world!

Love to all,
xx Clare


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

oh dear clare!! So not really had a good day then?!!

Me and hubby have been doing the bathroom today - painting it laying the rest of the floor tiles so am happy now although the bathroom has no door now!!!! oopppsss!!

Kate xxx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi Clare, Jan and everyone!

I can do Saturday 18th at Burford Garden Centre - if we make it 10.30/11-ish then it will be early enough for a natter, early lunch in time for you to get to work at 2.  I can make it earlier of course but if Jan is coming along, she has to get here from Swindon.

Here's to meeting up and thinking of H4M in her 2ww.

Love,

Elaine x


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Kate, i know my cousin is a theatre nurse, but don't know all the ins & outs & her name is Di Pearcey. 

I can do the 18th 

I am so bored today & going dilly   waiting for these test results.

Any more news on the 1 embie   leggs crossed


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

oh yeah..... in my earlier years  i completed the police trainer driver course at sulhampstead & did all the medical's etc at kiddlington...

I used to do test racing when i was younger at silverstone.... 

& i used to have a bmw...     



Jan xxxx


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

Check you out, Jan, you girl racer!!  Glad you two can do the 18th - 10.30am by the rusty family!!

Kate, hope you get your bathroom door back soon honey !!    

Such a beautiful day today; feeling very positive!

Love to all,
xx Clare


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hey Girls

It's official. It truly is a beautiful day. We now have a 5 cell embie on board. 

I feel so optimistic, for the 1st time this tx and am visualising warm welcoming electric blankets and duvets to help it settle in.

God I hope this works.

Am testing on 22nd Feb (so gonna forget about it all for a couple of weeks - yeah right!!!!)

Thanks for being with me on this journey, you are all truly wonderful.

Lots of love

H4M
xx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi H4M,

5-cell is fantastic!  It is obviously dividing at a rate of knotts.  I really do hope that it works for you as speaking as a constantly disappointed long-termer, I would not wish a negative result on my worst enemy.  Try and remain optimistic and keep up the visualising but what I would advise is that you retain a little bit of your self-preservation, preparing for the worst-case scenario just in case.  That way you avoid building yourself up for a massive fall.  95% optimistic but guarded 5% not - the first time was definitely 100% optimistic for me and boy, did I struggle to cope with the disappointment.  As time goes on, those percentages skew into more like 5% optimistic but 95% pessimistic!  Just try and keep your brain busy is my advice.  Distracted is better than worrying like a maniac.

Clare & Jan - rusty family at 10.30 on the 18th it is!!  To anyone else, the rusty family is a sculture of a family in metal that has rusted!  Just in case you were wondering!

All the best with the bathroom door pallaver - our locks never work so we are all "hums while we pee" people when we have visitors!

Lots of love,

Elaine xx


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

H4M, that's such great news!  I knew things were positive when I pm'd you this morning - I'm so pleased for you.  Best of luck for the next two weeks - we will all be keeping everything crossed for you.
xx Clare


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

Having such a busy day I really shouldn't be posting here, but I'm REALLY ANNOYED and need to vent!!

Rob had a phone call from the clinic today to say that they would have to cancel his SA tomorrow as the consultant we spoke to has booked him in for the wrong thing.  He is booked for a straight forward SA, but they want to freeze some sperm, which means a different type of appt.  Their diary system has crashed so they can't give us a new date yet, and can't guarantee that they can fit us straight away, meaning that our start date could be put back.  Even though I know that delaying things by a month won't make any difference, I am all geared up to start in March, with cover arranged at work for the times I can't be operational.  I feel so out of control now and so annoyed that a mistake was made.

Feel better now - sorry for the 'me' rant!!!!
xx Clare


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Oh Clare

sorry for your possible delay.

How bl***y infuriating.

Sometimes I think they don't see us as human beings at all, let alone ones who are going through a really c**p time of it and that we're just an appointment. 

The main thing is though that they do get it right and then that will mean you have the best chance of it working when you do start.

Elaine - thanks for your words of wisdom. I know you are right and really I still do have that 5% in reserve, I feel though that I have to be positive to give my embie the right vibes and to stop myself from going mad - I have been so 'down' through the rest of this tx cycle, I was doing my own head in, let alone my dh's. 

I hope everyone else is ok.

Love

H4M
xx


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## LouisandPhoebe (Feb 2, 2006)

HI
Were going in to the FC today for our drug appointment.  Did you all buy your drugs from your clinic?  Do you have to get them from the clinic?  After looking at the drug thread it seems there are companys that supply the drugs at a reasonable price, does anyone have any experience of shopping around ?

Thank-you

Charley


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Hi all.

Bloods came back fine   

JR ringing with schedule tomoz 

Charley, until you know what drugs you need it's difficult to say. I know that there is now quite a few suppliers around & a lot of them want about a months notice to supply.
I've found that most clinics give you the drug notice a week prior to commencement.
Everytime i've had ivf the clinic has supplied them.

& if your gp decides to fund the drugs they will possibly get them in for you.

Am i waffling again? 

Ask at your drugs appointment & they will be able to help.

My last drugs bill was about £700 & had to send off somewhere for them 

Anyway you horrible lot... 100% optimism please   us old fogies don't half need it 

see ya laters xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

Helloooo!

Feel much better now - had shocking PMT yesterday & just couldn't drag myself out of the doldrums!!  Rob's appt has been re-scheduled for Tuesday, so we won't lose any time at all.  Back to being 100% optimistic, Jan!!!!  

Jan, great news about your results & schedule!

H4M, sending you lots of       

Love to everyone else,
xx Clare


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

hi all - hope everyone is ok?

Well bathroom is just about finished and have a door now!!

Janny bear - i think i met your cousin once when i was doing my placement on surgical wards - i am there again in 2 weeks for 4 weeks so will keep an eye out and say hello even if she thinks im some mad woman!! Wow - sulhampstead - thats about a mile or so down the road from me - use to be a Police Cadet there when i was about 16!!!

H4M - good luck for the 22nd

Kate xxx


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## LouisandPhoebe (Feb 2, 2006)

Thanks Jan for getting back to us

Lee needs nafarelin(synarel) nasal spray and Gona-F pen 900 i.u. (3 of them)

I phoned the people the clinic recommend and they seem quiet expensive.  The clinic gave us one nasal spray as lee needs to start tomorrow and the clinic usual charges £30 for one and when i phoned the supplier they charge £77.  They told us to go with Serono Homecare.

Is there a pharmacy in Oxford that supplies them?

Good luck everyone with your treatments - Lee was in tears today as its finally dawned on her what is going to happen.  

Thank-you for all your advice

Charley


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Kate... by all means say hi, she knows of my situation so feel free to have a gossip.

That's where i had to send off for my drugs last time. They deliver them to wherever you want & they come in a polystyrene box...

If you find anywhere cheaper, it'd be good to know. 

Is anybody else up for meeting at 'the rusty family' or is it just me & Elaine that drive miles 

heheheh... have a nice day everybody xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi Girls

How are you all doing?

*Charley* - we got our drugs from Serono Homecare - bloody expensive we had 2 x syranel and 4 x 900 gonal F and it cost us £940!!!!!

If you do find any one cheaper definitely tell us. Hope everything goes well for you and Lee.

*Jan * - sending you positive thoughts for your tx

*Clare and Kate* - thanks for your good wishes

*everyone else * - hope you are having a great day!

I am just taking it easy, having chats with my mum on the webcam and generally mooching around. Making the most of it cos I am back at work on Monday - mind you if I start feeling crap I shall come home and not do a thing. Nothing quite like being at home when you are meant to be at work is there? 

Love

H4M
xx


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

hi janny bear if i see her i will mention u  

Speak soon ladies - i am having a lazy day today!!

Kate xx


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi girls,
Hope you've all had a great weekend!
I was working yesterday but am off till Friday afternoon which is fantastic - had three rest days anyway, & took another couple off to match Rob's, as otherwise we don't see each other for weeks.  We've had a lovely day; walked the dog through the fields before popping to a cafe to read the papers over a hot chocolate.  We did roast lamb for a late lunch & it was gorgeous - don't often do a roast just for the two of us, but it's definitely worth it!  Unfortunately AF arrived in full force then so I'm dutifully morphined up as usual & don't know what day of the week it is! Nightmare - can't believe it's AF time already!

Charley, I hope Lee is ok now.  Has work been supportive for her?

H4M, thinking of you lots, honey.  I hope you feel ok for work tomorrow, but don't be a martyr - stay at home and rest up if you feel you need to.

Love to all,
xx Clare


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi Girls

Back to work today. Feeling fine - but then I have been having loads of energy in the mornings then crashing in the afternoons.

Feel ok at being back, two of my colleagues/ girlfriends know about tx and have been absolutely lovely. They are so supportive, I know I am very lucky.

Should go and actually 'do' some work now rather than just thinking about it, I suppose.

Hope evryone's ok

Love

H4M
xx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Mooorning  

I'm at work too hun    well sort of anyway!!!   I think Mondays should be banned .

How's everyone today then ?


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

hi janny bear i have the start of a cold today and AF is here so feeling sorry for myself!!

Hi clare - its annoying isnt it when both u and hubby work shifts - i hardly see my hubby coz of the shift patterns but glad u have some time together this week.

I did have a good weekend - decided to go out saturday nite to the pub coz hubby was playing in a darts match (i hardly ever go as dont like some folk down there!!) But seeing as i wanted to get out the house away from thinking about babies as nobody down the pub knows our fertility situation! I was doing ok until around midnite when this stupid pain of an **** girl who is the g/f of the darts team manager comes out with " oh u 2 dont ever want kids do u coz u can be really immature at times as u seem to muck about all the time!" WELL.... i was now fuming by this and stood up and walked out coz i would have smacked her one! My hubby was left explaining to her that we had been ttc for 3 yrs and been told we cant have kids unless we have treatment - she kind of shut up then! I know she didnt know the situation but she is one of these girls who speaks before she thinks! And then i explained that we muck about coz i need a laugh at times and we dont even mean what we say! But then i have figured out that she is thick as s**t coz a few weeks back at the pub quiz she was asked the question - who wrote Bethoven's symthony (cant spell!) and she answered with Trichosky!!!!!

Sorry ive had my moan now!!

Take care

Kate xx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Awww Kate 

Unfortunately there are too many people out there like that.  

As you & i come from the same neck of the woods... which pub & what's her name 

Don't tell me it's the greyhound!!!!!

Love ya loads. xxx


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

hee hee janny bear!!

The Vic in Mortimer - she works at the 6 bells though! God u just wouldnt believe her if u met her!! Im probably saying this and she is your best mate or something!!! lol

Kate xx


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Happy valentines day


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

To you too Janny Bear and to everyone else too of course.

Hope you are all having a 'loving' day!!! he he he!


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

hi everyone happy valentines day and hope u all get spoilt by your hubbys!!

Well went to the pub last nite to have a game of darts (found out i am actually quite good!!) And my lovely friend was there from saturday nite - she was constantly giving me evil looks! I dont know what ive done now?!!!

Also hubby suggested that in the summer we all meet up one weekend afternoon and have a pub lunch or something? I mean anyone and their partners? Let me know coz i can arrange something?

Kate xx


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi all, & happy Valentine's day!

Kate, lovely idea about a summer meet-up.  Seems a long way off, but it won't be long before the lovely weather arrives & we can sit out in a pub garden for a leisurely lunch!

In the meantime, Elaine & Jan, looking forward to meeting you both on Saturday.  I am off-line now at home (waiting for a new laptop to arrive) so will pick up e-mails etc on friday at work if there are any problems.

We spent a few hours at the JR this morning for Rob's SA & his bloods.  Everyone was so lovely & we will find out the results of his SA next week at our consultation.  The andrologist said it was 'much better' than she had expected from reading his notes, which sounds positive.  It was an odd way to spend Valentine's day, but as they have frozen some we could end up with a Valentini baby, you never know!!

H4M, how's work going hun?

Love to all - hope you all get spoilt rotten today!!
xx Clare


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## River (Oct 23, 2005)

Hi Everyone,

I haven't been in here for a while. Hope everyone is doing OK.
We ae not going to CERAM in Spain next week for initial cons with a view to starting IVF in March. I will let you know what the Spanish treatment is like! ClaireMack-maybe we could be cycle buddies?Glad to hear things are going well at the JR, fingers crossed for your SA results next week!

I collected copies of our HIV/HEPC etc bloodtests from the GP today ready to take them to Spain next week and finally feel like things are moving forward. Trying to be positive but not too much so as am really worried how I will cope between the failed cycle til i get another go.  But hey! I am a born worrier!

  
Loads of Valentine higs to you all.
Take care
Angela
x


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi everyone

*Clare* - Work's fine, thanks. Fairly relaxed, but I am absolutely knackered by the time I get home.

Went out last night for dinner and as I knew I was gonna be late to bed, I arranged to work from home today. Got up at 9am, and still started work by 9.30ish.

My boss is excellent for being flexible with me. I know I am very lucky in that respect.

*Kate* - try not to let the stupid girl wind you up - she sounds very odd. She's probably embarrased that she made such a (.) (.) of herself in front of everybody.

So did you all have a good valentines day? Did you do anything nice?

H4M
xx


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## Hayley E (Apr 1, 2004)

Hi everyone

Hope you're all doing well.  Keeping everything crossed for you Hoping4miracle.

Jan, I'm so pleased that the donor cycle is progressing well, you must be so excited.

Elaine, thinking of you, hope you're ok.  Have you had your appointment with Tim Childs yet?

Don't know if you've seen on the BFP thread but Alison had her Baby last Tuesday, Mia Jane, she's beautiful.

Thinking of you all and sending you all my best wishes.

Lots of love

Hayleyxx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi everyone!

So great to see you all sharing and supporting one another - me included.  I dressed in some sexy underwear underneath my clothes, cooked a lovely meal and then went to bed early with a stinking cold!!!  The best laid plans of mice and men ---!  Hard to look sexy with my nose streaming and loads of Kleenex tissues clutched in my hand!  Anyhow I did receive a lovely card even though I resorted to buying my own bunch of daffs as my DH thinks that I will think he is having an affair the day he buys me some flowers --- a stupid excuse if ever I've heard one.

I have my meeting on Monday with the doctor to discuss the next FET cycle and whether we can do anything differently.  My problem is that I believe that we are all unique and if something is not working, then you try something else.  Even if it is adding baby aspirin to the equation to improve the blood-flow to the uterus, at least then we can tick off another uncertainty.  I agree with the premise that 'if it aint broke, don't fix it' but in my case, it seems to be broke so let's try and fix it!

Anyhow Clare - see you and Jan on Saturday morning at the rusty family!  If it is chucking it down with rain, we'll have to lurk around the right of the entrance, looking shifty!

Love,

Elaine x


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## janny bear (Mar 30, 2004)

Hi Guys.

Sorry Clare & Elaine, i will not be comming on Saturday.

I have yet again had my heart broken by the JR & am absolutely realing from the dissapointment.

We have now had confirmation that donor embryo cost of £1400 will be added to the normal cost of IVF treatment.

There is also a dispute between Nikki & Jane Moore on how to proceed with the treatment.

I have been given no explanation by the JR.

This said, it seems that this is not the norm at the JR...

Best wishes all.

Thanks for letting us know Hayley... looks as though you will be the next one anouncing your birth 

Take care. Jan xxx


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## Elaine R (Aug 19, 2003)

Jan,

I have PM'd you and I repeat that I am here for you when you feel you are up to talking.

All my love,

Elaine xx


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

hi all hope u are all ok?

Hubby surprised me last nite with flowers and champagne - he doesnt usually do things like that!! Then he took me to the pub (AGAIN!!) so i could watch Arsenal lose!! Now wish i hadnt worn my shirt to the pub!! My lovely friend was there again and was talking to james and not me!! I dont really care anymore!

*H4M* - she probably is embarrased about it all but there we go - just annoyed that she never apologised to me.

*Janny bear * - sorry to hear about having to find the extra money - it seems so unfair at times

Kate xxx


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## CM01 (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi everyone,
Back on-line as new laptop arrived sooner than expected & took hardly any time at all to set up  

Oh Jan, you poor poor thing.  I'm so very sorry things are blue for you, and really hope you can find a positive way to move forward.  

Elaine, what a shame to be poorly on Valentine's day!  I laughed lots at your DH's excuse for not buying flowers - I've never heard that one before!  See you on Saturday but DON'T LET ME HAVE A CAKE cause I'm doing really well on my diet!

Kate, all your posts are brimming with positivity at the moment - it's lovely to read!  Glad you've had a nice few nights out with DH & definitely ignore the rude girl.

H4M, it's great your boss is so supportive.  When is your testing day?

Angela, it would be great to be cycling with someone - I should start downregging around the 29th March.  Hope all goes well in Spain.

I had my first acupuncture session today - OMG it REALLY REALLY hurt!!!  Quite a bizarre sensation, but she's convinced she can reduce my AF pain as well as preparing for treatment.  Really hope so, as I want to go drug free for April's AF if at all possible.

We went to the evening presentation at the JR tonight & it was really impressive.  I don't think I learned a great deal that I hadn't already read about, but Rob is definitely better informed.

Love to all,
xx Clare


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## VT (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi Clare,

Testing next Wednesday.

Only 6 more days to go!!!

Can't wait but a little concerned too that it will all come crashing down.

Still praying and visualising a halo of light round my uterus, in the hope my precious little embie is settling in.

Hope everyone's ok.

H4M
xx


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## Kamac80 (Nov 24, 2005)

Hi clare - glad it went well at the JR. Thanks for the comment - am i giving off some positive vibes then?!! I think i was feeling so upset after seeing the consultant 2 weeks ago and being told that it will cost around £3000 for ICSI - now i have got over that and trying to enjoy my life and some time with hubby - also seeing these police officers being shot makes u appriciate my hubby even more. So if we want to go to the pub every nite then we will!!

H4M - it will all work out hun i have everything crossed

Kate xxx


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## *Kim* (May 5, 2002)

New home this way

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,48954.new.html#new


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