# Any Catholics out there?



## smallbutmighty

I have my test result tomorrow and my first instinct is to slope into the back of the church for some quiet contemplation and prayer. Except of course that the Catholic church condemns what we are doing so I wouldn't be welcome. In light of that, I haven't been to mass since we started treatment.

I've always ignored them on contraception without a second thought (as it seemed a pretty obvious cynical effort to increase your congregation numbers!) but I feel angry with them on IVF. I understand that they don't like the idea of wasting embryos but a) that's never been an issue for us anyway as we just don't have that many and b) if there are spare embryos and they can be used for stem cell research to help people with really awful conditions is that really an act against God? Because to me that feels like an act of kindness. 

Also, why should we not benefit from medical science in the same way everyone else does? 

And then as icing on the cake, even though we're not welcome, they would baptise any child we have because it isn't the child's fault how it is conceived. The same argument as they make for rape! How dare they. Do they really think I'm going to bring any child of mine to them and apologise for how he/she was conceived and beg them to please consider a baptism?

I've decided if we get lucky they're not having my baby. But I do need to find another church. I was already sick of the 'no women priests' rule anyway so this is just the straw that's broken the camel's back.


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## K8O

Hi

You are not alone in the way you are thinking.  Me and DH were both raised as Catholic, married in the church and used to attend church.  I'm the same as you and haven't been (apart from weddings) since we started down the treatment route.  It was made clear to us in the guidance we had before marriage that IVF was a no go and we wouldn't be welcome etc.  that has stuck with me and I felt I had no choice but to effectively leave the church.  Both our families are practising Catholics and some of them have even asked their priests about it in an attempt to try and convince us to go back.  I just can't but I feel I'm missing something without my faith and prayer.  It has been 5 years for me and I haven't looked at alternatives but I think our families reaction would put me off even though it's my choice.

Such a tricky situation and I have had heated debates with MIL about any children not been baptised.

Just wanted to say HI and that u r not alone

Kxx


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## smallbutmighty

K,

Thanks for replying, glad to know it is not just me. My husband is less bothered as he was more a lip service Catholic anyway but I feel very disappointed that the one time you really need some faith the door is closed. It feels rather spiteful. And illogical. If God didn't want the life spark to happen in the petri dish, he wouldn't let 'em fertilise, would he? It's like they look for ways to make you feel guilty and they're automatically anti-everything.

With family, our extended family don't know we're doing IVF so it is a non-issue so far. Goodness knows what will happen with any baptism, but in fairness to my MiL and mother I think they'd both be behind us doing it elsewhere (or at least understand). The rest of the family will be the ones reeling in shock!  

I see you're trying a new approach, very best of luck with it. xx


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## Blondie71

Very much lapsed catholic here too   and a single mother of IVF twins too lol, I had both my sons baptised and the priest knew my story and never batted an eyelid, he was great and when the subject of the father came up for the baptismal certificate he was so professional and treated us as he would any other family, he was so cool he even came to the party afterwards on his harley lol, wish more were like him x


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## Haydan

Hi, im a catholic but was not raised as a 'practising catholic' ive been to various churches throughout my life and have found that through one thing or another close church congregations can be very judgemental about many different life choices - ive never experienced this personally but i have seen it happen to other people and just could not cope with the hypocracy of it all so i have distanced myself from being part of any church group. 
the church i now attend is a city church that i pass on my way to work - i go in either mornings or evenings for holy communion / prayers but i never attend the sunday services.
for me i have developed my own personal relationship and faith with God - i talk to him everyday and bare witness for him in the way i know how to.


i have been struggling recently and i did have a long break from the church as i couldnt bring myself to go into the building - i finally did last week for the first time as i felt i was being 'pulled' and i know i was not alone that day - i sat down for quiet contemplation at the back of the church and just felt such peace wash over me. for me it is now the right time to work on my relationship again and try to trust in gods will and plan for me and DH.


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## scribbles

Hi all, 

Excuse the pun as it's just gone Easter, but apologies for resurrecting the thread!

Congrats on your BFP!!!!

I'm a fairly well behaved Catholic, although DH doesn't share my beliefs. DD is christened a Protestant within the church in Wales as it was a compromise with DH. 

God is awesome, He is Lord creator of Heaven and Earth. I am big into science and remember loads of incredible facts from my (failed) attempt to get into medical school. Facts like electrons in an atomic shell spin in opposite directions to avoid magnetic charges from acting against each other. That is proof that God's work is everywhere and His work is in IVF. We all know there is a point in IVF where the science ends and God takes over. God has created every minute detail and scientist have discovered the materials of God's work. 
IVF is God's work and his plan for us.

The other thing to bear in mind is that the Catholic church is not God. Only God can judge us and He alone knows the secrets of our hearts. He knows if our intentions are decent or not. It is not up to the Catholic Church to decide if our actions meet their standards.


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## Guest

I thought this was an interesting thread, thanks for starting it SBM. I was raised by Atheists but am not one myself. I was wondering whether going to a confession would be helpful but don't know much about it as never been to one.

Scribbles I liked your post above too   I think God can be in (or even absent!) from all religions and people. I've always liked the idea that we're spiritual beings having a human experience


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## Haydan

thanks for that post Scribbles - i found a lot of comfort in what you said and very much in agreement.

Merlin13 i've also never been to confession - none of my family went to church so i just joined the local youth church when i was a child. i now just attend my local church but i don't really get involved with the congregation.


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## scribbles

Merlin, confession is good for cleansing your soul but I don't think you need to confess to a priest for absolution. 

I was going through a very difficult period several years ago and was going off the rails big time. My friends and family were sick of hearing the same problems over and over again but I needed to talk through my issues. Then I realised that God doesn't get bored of listening to you. I started talking to God and confessing my true feelings to Him without fear of being judged by somebody who doesn't understand. God loves us sinners, despite what sins we may commit. Forgiveness comes from confessing to Him honestly and not holding back on what's truly in our hearts. 

Go for a walk on your own and talk to God (not necessarily out loud!!) and open up your heart to Him. He will listen and will always listen no matter how many times you say the same thing. Only He can judge you.


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## MrsTb

I am Catholic, very Catholic. But I also come from a part of the world where there is a focus on a personal relationship with God and generally have less feelings of guilt than I generally encounter in the west.  The church in my view has doctrines which are guidelines on Christian living but at the end of the day it's you and your creator.
I do not think avoiding a worship community helps. In fact the church is not the priests or bishops ; it is us. The church is the body which is us.  What lies in wait I do not know but I try to to think I a, taking an ethical view in my treatment of embryos as I believe life begins at conception.  
I am a doctor of 15 years now and maybe that is why I have had years to mull over this.  i am part of a community that shares the word, receives communion and planning to attend a healing service in my local parish.  

If you don't feel comfortable where you are, my advice is to avoid the guilt and upset and find another church / denomination where you may thrive spiritually as this fertility journey can be difficult and We need God's strength to see us through


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## SWGirl

I'm not Catholic in any sense (although I did attend a strict catholic school for six years as a child).  I'm pretty sure it does not state anywhere in the bible 'Thou shalt not have IVF'.  I'd like to know exactly which statement/s in the bible the 'rule-makers' (AKA men) of the catholic church are using/twisting to come up with this precise statement about IVF.  So what are the statements/reasons they are using/twisting?


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## Bettyboop82

Hi ladies, this makes interesting reading. I was raised a Catholic and agree with scribbles' post that the most important thing is your relationship with God. I don't feel that I need to speak to Him through a priest and so I'm not a regular attendee of Church, I talk to God (and Our Lady!) whenever and wherever I want to and know that I am heard without being judged.


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