# where do I go now - any input greatful recieved



## silverbird (Aug 8, 2011)

Hi all I've just had my second IVF fail and wondering where to go from here.

1st cycle highest does of menopur, 5 eggs 2 fertilized one low quliaty embie transfered.
2nd cycle highest does of menopur, 4 eggs, icis, no fetilization.

I'm wondering about going straight to donor eggs.  I just can't keep doing this and getting few eggs and no embies.  Anyone know how I go about that and what the wait is for id relase donors?

Is it worth doing immune testing or any other test I should consider.

I just want something in my life to go right.


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

What do you clinic have to say about why you have not succeeded so far, what would they do differently next cycle. Your first cycle is often info gathering.
Often people say after 2-3 cycles at one clinic it might be best to change clinics, are you a poor responder, what is your FSH/LH/AMH like?
were you on the long or short protocol would they look to change?
As your AMH is low would you consider commuting to a clinic that has a good reputation with poor responders etc like Lister.
I would go for a few consultations at other clinics who do individualised approaches, I only know London clinics, but if you want to use your own eggs it may be your best approach
L


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## suitcase of dreams (Oct 7, 2007)

oh big big  silverbird, it's soul destroying I know, and especially when you invest so much (emotionally, physically, financially) and you don't even get any embies to transfer  
I'd agree first step is to ask your consultant some tough questions: why do they think you get low/zero fertilisation, what would/could they do differently if you were to try again, are there further tests they recommend etc
I would also take all results/information and have consultations at one or two other places and get their advice too. Lister a good one as they have good reputation with the more difficult cases, and then if you are not at CARE now (sorry, can't remember which clinic you are using), I would go to one of the CARE clinics too as they are good with immunes and seem v up to date on the latest science/technology
although re immunes, I don't think there is much point spending money on immune testing at this stage as it seems your issue is producing sufficient and good quality eggs rather than immune problems. Agate may have some further thoughts on this though? 
and maybe check out the 'poor responders' threads on here for suggestions on how to improve egg quantity and quality?
In the meantime, you could put yourself on the waiting list for DE. If you want an ID release egg donor you will need to have tx in the UK - I would try CRM London and CARE again for DE. Wait (at CRM at least) is around 6-9 mths I think. LWC also have relatively short waiting times for DE but I personally would not recommend them (PM me if you want more info)
You just call them up and make an appt to discuss and go from there. CRM do make you have counselling 'assessment' and they take your case to their 'ethics' panel before they accept you as a single woman having DE. Not sure about CARE protocols in that regard. 
NGDT (National Gamete Donation Trust) may have more up to date lists of clinics with shorter DE wait lists in the UK (you can Google them)
Also I wrote a guide to using DE (UK and abroad) which you can read here - it may help:
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=256679.0
Thinking of you, I know it's tough  
Suitcase
x


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## silverbird (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks for taking the time to reply JJ and Suity.

JJ: Unfortuantly I have to wait 6 weeks (more likley 2-3 months) for my feedback appoinmnet.  They said 2 eggs were immature and the other two didn't fertlize.  This is my second cycle and so far the info I have is that my eggs are rubbish  

I've done cycles at two different clinics.  I didn't respond too poorly first time I stimmed for 11 days and got 5 eggs.  This time I din't respond as well, I stimmed for 11 days and got 4 eggs.  My amh is 4.9 don't know my fsh or lh.

I've done short protocol for both cycles.  I've read that it can be worth changing to a long cycle if you have lead folicles that your loose but that's not my case.

I'd be happy to travel to London but my annual leave means I'd be limited how often I could cycle unless some monitoring could be done localy.

To be honset I'm not attached to using my own eggs.  I don't really care whos eggs I use if I get a bpf! But I would like ID release incase my lo wants that option.  

Thanks for the advice suity, CARE looks good and I have friends in manchester I could stay with.

I was thinking the same about immunes but I don't want to leave anything I should have.

To be honset I've spent 6 months on DHEA, loads of vits, green superfood, accuputnure and healthy eating.  Not too sure what else I could do.

I know it might seem like an over reaction after two cycles but I can't keep doing this.  I've been waiting so long to get here I need to do what I can to make this work.  Not impressed with the other option I keep being told by inlaws: wait for a new husband to turn up then start fertility treatments with him.


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

wow that is crazy to wait so long, are you paying privately?? if so you could in fact be cycling 6 weeks later, I know I did 6 weeks after a mc. If it is the NHS then it is different, have you said that you could take a cancellation appt, and speak to your nurse to push the case for a quicker appt.  I did wait 6 months to see Mr Tat ARGC  himself but had a follow up with another Dr that week.
Re CARE it is CARE in Nottingham that has the best CARE results and in the top 5 clinics for IVf along with ARGC, CRGH,The Lister, but Dr George Ndweke one of the cons who dealt with immune women has in fact moved to Zita West Clinic in London.

I know you feel 2 cycles is a lot, but by the law of averages after 4 your should have a BFP as there is usually a 25% ish chance.


also have a look at the q's people have complied to ask- I once emailed 4 pages of A$ q's to a consultant in advance of my appt!

Maybe your inlaws are trying to protect you from the pain, stress and anguish that goes along with cycling.
Take care


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## Sima (Aug 10, 2008)

Hi Silverbird

I am so sorry for your recent failed cycle.   It is so hard to know what to do next especially if the clinic is so slow to give you a follow up consultation. Is there any chance of getting an earlier follow up appointment. Say a cancellation?

Have you seen the thread Agate put together re learning from your failed cycle? It is a good read and it might give you some clues as to where to turn to next.

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=283000.0

Another option might be to try to have a phone consult with one of the Drs at SIRM. I am not sure if they are still doing them as I had mine a few years ago but you used to be able to get a free consult with Dr Sher and he would at least give you some suggestions to think about. Just a thought


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## lulumead (May 29, 2008)

Hi Silverbird


 The others have offered good suggestions, I was only going to add that you could look at also doing natural IVF...sometimes takes more cycles but its a lot cheaper and overall stats even out of the likelihood of achieving a successful outcome.
xx


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## Panda Eyes (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi Silverbird

I'm so sorry to hear your news.  I'm only just about to start my cycle and deliberated long and hard about whether to use my own eggs or go straight for DE.  I have very low AMH and age is against me, but have decided to try once at the Lister.  But if unsuccessful, I will probably go straight to DE.  Each of us have to decide individually when the right time is to switch to DE and what is personally important.  I admire all those courageous and determined women  who can go through this so many times - but I personally don't think I have that kind of strength, or the financial resources and I don't want to risk the family home or being able to spend time in the early years working part-time. 

I do agree with everyone, however, that it is so important to get some feedback from your current consultant before you decide what to do next.  Email or telephone them, I have done this with  two different consultants following tests over the last two years and they were both very willing to respond (or speak to me over the phone).

If you do decide to go ahead with DE and disclosure is not important to you, then there are no waiting lists in clinics in Europe.  My consultant has recommended one in Spain to me that I would be happy to give you details of if you PM me.

Wishing you all the best,
Panda xx


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## flowerfaery (Apr 26, 2012)

I've had a really awful time with CARE Manchester and I've had to find a new clinic.  Nothing would induce me to go back there, they put me through hell with their incompetence and lack of care.  I really don't want anyone else to go through similar bad experiences so I'd suggest checking out the personal recommendations on this thread.

Good luck.


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## morrigan (Dec 8, 2009)

so tough silver bird- hugs i did notice you stimmed with very similar drug?

i would say it couldnt hurt to get level 1 immunes done by gp while you are waiting for follow up.


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## silverbird (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks so much to everyone who has taken the time to reply.

JJ: I had NHS treatment last cycle.  I don’t know how long it will be to a follow up appointment but the website says 6 weeks but my experience and that of others on their ff support thread is that the wait is always at least a month longer than they say.
I know 2 cycles is not a lot and many of you have had to go through many more and I hope I don’t sound rude if I say that’s what I want to avoid.  I’m not sure what your basing a 25% chance on? I surely have a 0% chance if I have no embies?
Do you have link to questions to ask clinics?
I know my in laws just want me not to deal with the difficulties of raising a child alone.  In then end I but it bluntly and said “so you feel I should spend my life trying to find a replacement for dh and then do fertility treatments which him?” They had to admit that didn’t sound to good either.

Sima: Thanks very much for the link, I will take the q’s when I eventually get my follow up appointment.  I have asked Agate about what tests might be useful.

Lulumead: Thanks I have thought about natural IVF  although natural IVF.  There aren’t any clinic’s that do it locally and it would be hugely complicated to be going to London regularly especially as my cycle can be changeable.

Panda Eyes: Thank you very much for posting.  I feel very similar to you, I need to do what will give me the best chance.  My AMH is actually more similar to a women in her 40’s and everyone has been saying that my eggs will be better quality.  I do want an open ID donor if I can but thanks for your offer.

Flower; Thanks for your input I pmed you.

Morrigan: Yes i used the same drugs but a different trigger.  I will see about immunes with my gp.

To me it comes down to emotionally I don’t think I can go through all that again, injections scans etc knowing I might not even get to et.  I know there are things I can fiddle with to give me a chance of viable embies, clinics that might work miracles but I just don’t think I can do it.  I need to go into my next cycle knowing it has the best chance of working. I know donor eggs are not a sure thing, and there is a possibility I might not get to et with them but I feel it’s my best chance.

CRGW where I cycled first says they have no wait for donor eggs.  I’m really tempted to go there for my next cycle.  I really liked the clinic, they were very responsive and answered questions at any time.  And being so close is very convenient.  If that failed I could go to somewhere more established like CRM or I might be entitled to another round with IVF Wales then.


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## silverbird (Aug 8, 2011)

Got my follow up appoinmnet for 10/9/12 so not as bad as I feared.  I'll take Agate's questions but any other input to take would be useful.


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=66634.0
Some of these 's might help


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## silverbird (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks JJ.  Is there a thread for question before you go to a clinic?


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

Hi there is in the main iCSI thread http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=66631.0


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## Passenger42 (Jan 27, 2010)

Hi Silverbird

I would recommend having a free telephone consult with Penny at Serum in Athens before you throw in the towel with OE and she is also a good source of information for potential immunise problems and can help you with donor egg if you are not wanting a UK ID release donor.  You would need to complete your medical IVF history and send it to her and then she will telephone you. 

I am not using Serum so I am only going on what other people have said about her and her methods with ladies using own egg, but I have a lot of friends on FF who have had long term problems with OE that got results using her clinic and also they are good on price.  After multiple failures my friend Crick2 had success with Serum and her story is not uncommon, but be warned she did end up with triplets after Penny worked her magic! 

Wishing you every success

Passenger x


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## silverbird (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks JJ and Passenger.

If NHS offer me a second OEIVF I was thinking of booking a consultation with serum or lister or somewhere any ideas they have that I could do with IVF Wales.


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## ♥JJ1♥ (Feb 11, 2006)

I have an appt booked at Serum in Oct-the 9th clinic I have attended for an appt or treatment!. I also had a consultation at the Lister and was v impressed with them but they aren't licensed for surrogacy and that was what I was trying to do at the time.

Have you considered Dr George Ndweke at Zita West Clinic in London or Dr Gorgy a the Fertility Academy in London will work alongside other clinics. SIRM in USA also offer free phone consultations I had a consult with Dr Scher.

L


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## Bambiboo (Oct 23, 2009)

Silverbird - big   to you.  I had treatment at CARE Northampton and they were superb.  They treated me as an individual, listened to my needs/concerns rather than a one size fits all approach.  I would consider a consultation with them xx


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