# NOT Telling the child, Chat/Support thread



## DizziSquirrel

*This is a support thread for those people 
who plan NOT TO tell any child conceived that a donor was used

Anyone who is undecided may dip into both the telling and not telling threads 
to get both sides, or ask questions.

Any posts belittling or disputing the choices others have made will be removed. 
~Dizzi~ *​


----------



## GIAToo

Just bookmarking   
GIA Tooxxx


----------



## purplejr

Hi.

I'm looking at the issue from a slightly different angle. I did 2 rounds of egg share. Don't know if either recipient got pg or how many eggs they got. I sort of askd when I called the clinic to inform them of Megan's birth and they said someone would call me but they never did.

My tell or not is whether to tell Megan that she may have siblings out there. It's unlikely we will have more children unless another miracle happens.

What are your thoughts on this.

Joy xx


----------



## purplejr

Babydreams - thanks for that. She's a little bigger now.

I think I may be leaning towards not telling but I suppose I'm worried about the consequences if she finds out at a later date.


I wouldn't presume to tell someone else that they should or shouldn't tell. Just interested in opinions. (I read some of the other thread)

Joy xx


----------



## purplejr

I don't know. Part of me does want to know but I'm really unsure. After the first round where we got a BFN I didn't want to know.

If you don't mind me asking, how would you feel about your donor knowing?


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Just bookmarking...


----------



## juju81

Just bookmarking xxxx


----------



## purplejr

Babydreams - I've not really spoken to other donors. I am curious but not sure how I'd react to the info. I probably will find out, just make a spur of the moment decision and ring up but not sure when that will be.

Joy xx


----------



## purplejr

I would like to think it worked for both women. I didn't just donate to get cheaper tx, I did it to help others cos it could just as easily been us needing donor sperm or eggs. Obviously this would have been harder to accept if it hadn't worked for me. I would love to do egg share again but I'm too old now and not really sure I could go through tx again.

Joy


----------



## kizzymouse

bookmarking


----------



## pinkbabe

just bookmarking x


----------



## misstattoo

just bookmarking


----------



## purplejr

Babydreams - have you thought about the possibility of half siblings tracing your LO and what you would do then?


----------



## juju81

Babydreams, is that because ur in Ireland?


----------



## juju81

I sometimes wish they hadn't changed it here and then the choice to tell or not tell would have been taken out of our hands iykwim!


----------



## juju81

We are fab.  I'm looking forward to hearing your news.  You got any names chosen?x


----------



## Spaykay

Purple- there are other ladeis on here who have donated eggs and some know that the recipient gave birth, hav eyou chatted to anyone. Thank you for donating by the way!

Kay xxx


----------



## purplejr

thanks Kay. No I've not chatted to anyone about it really. I  get to the stage where I want to find out and then chicken out.

Joy xx


----------



## MissBabs

just bookmarking!

Miss Babs x


----------



## Jayne

Bookmarking


----------



## midsarah

Hi
I have had deivf abroad and am 5 weeks pregnant does anyone know if there is any medical reason why I have to inform my midwife. Basicaly are there added risks with de pregnancies?
Thanks
Sarah


----------



## suitcase of dreams

midsarah - congrats on your BFP 

we quite recently had a discussion about telling the medical profession which might be useful to you - link here: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=238627.msg3922354#msg3922354

As I understand it, main reason to tell them would be if you opt for the nuchal scan at 12wks they need age of donor to calculate accurate risk of downs/other syndromes rather than your age. There _may_ also be a small increased risk of pre-eclampsia with DE pregnanices although I don't think this has been definitively proven (someone else pls correct me if I'm wrong on this) - so if you tell midwife/consultants etc they can then monitor you mor closely.

As I fully intend to tell my twins how they were conceived, and most family/close friends know, I felt quite happy to also tell the midwife etc. Thus far (and I am single btw so even more 'controversial' in a sense as I've used donor eggs and sperm and am going it alone..) I have not had any negative response at all - midwife was very down to earth about it, and consultants have not even refered to it although it is in my notes.

Best of luck with your pregnancy
Suitcase
x


----------



## Spaykay

midsarah - if it helps at all, they tend to forget anyway! But yes, as suitcase said, the nuchal scan will need that info...but I don't think anything else came up that we shuold have told for.

Kay xxx


----------



## midsarah

We wont be needing a nuchal scanas we had pgd testing, the donor was also the same blood group as me.. Is there anything else that would make this a high risk that a natural pregnancy?
Thanks
Sarah


----------



## Spaykay

You could possibly say to them that the embrios were selected through PGD without mentioning the donor egg and ask if this means the nuchal scan is uneccessary. From what I can recall, there were no other issues and we never needed to metnion it again.

Kay xxx


----------



## Caan

Just bookmarkingxx


----------



## H&amp;P

Hi,

Can I join you ladies, we have just got a BFP after double donation and are 95% sure we will sit in the not telling corner, during our early IVF's whenever donor eggs were mentioned it was not received well by either of our families with comments like "oh no you won't be doing that" so we have kept our last few TX's very quiet and have eventually got our BFP after doing double donation.

The only think causing me concern is the logistics of it all, are the hospital going to want to do more tests due to my age (when I know that isn't necessary as my donor was 27)

Anyway early days for us but wanted to bookmark for future reference, I read the last thread from start to finish but this one seems much quieter, maybe because a few of the ladies that started it are now busy with their LO's.


----------



## GIAToo

Hi Hoping&Praying - congratulations again    I think it would be pointless having the tests if you don't give them the age of the egg donor as they would be working with wrong information.  I am sure that the hospital would have to keep that information confidential.  Suitcase of Dreams put a link afew posts up about telling medical people that may help. 

Hi Babydreams - glad all is going so well for you   

GIA tooxxx


----------



## sohocat

I was wondering how people felt about not telling their child about egg donor?  I am thinking both ways-it just seems like both I and my baby would be more protected that way.  I don't know which way I am going to go.  I am curious about others' thought and feelings about this.  I have a baby daughter from egg donor.  


sohocat


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Sohocat, 

Congratulations   

As babydreams says, it's a very personal decision. Since you asked for our experiences, I'll share mine here - although this is the NOT telling thread, and I decided to tell, so hopefully this post will not offend (it's not designed to in any way and I firmly believe everyone has to make this decision for themselves and do what is right for them and their family) - if it's an issue, mods pls move to the other thread and send Sohocat a link   

So, why did I decide to tell?
- I'm single and using donor sperm so I knew I'd have to answer questions about where the 'daddy' was anyway, and that would mean talking about donors from the early days, so it seemed to make sense to tell about egg and sperm donor in one go
- I'd already told family and some close friends that I needed an egg donor (because I needed their support and to talk to people about it before I made the decision to go ahead) and I did not want others to know and the child not to know
- I just generally feel honesty is the best policy in families and that it would be hard for me personally not to tell...just goes against the grain for me somehow 
- material I had read suggested that telling, and telling early, is probably best for the child (although this is inconclusive as not enough research exists yet on children of egg donors and I can't stress enough that this is a personal decision and I'm not for a minute saying everyone should tell because of this)
- not a major reason, but I did fear that one day they might find out (for eg my egg/sperm donor do not have matching blood types to mine) and I was worried it would be more of a shock to find out suddenly than to know from the very start

My boys are only 3 weeks old so I haven't started any telling yet of course, and I am nervous about how it's going to go, especially as I used anon donors so they won't be able to get much detail about them, but I still think it was the right decision
Incidentally though, I do not intend to tell anyone else about the egg donor - close friends and family know already, but wider circle/acquaintances/colleagues and other people we come across in the future (teachers etc) will not be told about the egg donor (although I will probably tell re sperm donor given my single status) - I see the info, especially re egg donor, as being the childrens' to tell and not mine as we go forward....

Hope this has helped, best of luck with your decision,
Suitcase
x


----------



## sohocat

Babydreams I would love that thread.  I tired looking for it, but I couldn't find it.  Can you find it anywhere?  Suitecase and babydreams, thanks for your responses!


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Unfortunately I think, although I'm not 100% sure, that the thread babydreams is refering to was binned/deleted as the discussions got rather heated    
These two threads (ie this one and the telling one) got set up instead 
Mods can prob confirm that though?

Suitcase
x


----------



## Cozy

Hello ladies,

We are 100% in the not telling camp. Personally I cannot see any advantage to it, but that is just my opinion and I know there are strong opinions on both sides.

Anyway... just to add something to a point raised earlier on in the post. I didnt tell anyone at the hospital that my baby was from a donor egg as I couldnt see any need for it. My family/friends dont know either.

I had a Nuchal scan and told that clinic, (which was not the hospitial I was under) who worked out my odds of any abnormalities based on my age and my donors age. I had 2 lots of information, one that I could give the hospital, if it was ever required - which it wasnt, and one copy which was accurate as it was based on the donors age. 

My donors blood group is the same as mine, so when my LO needed blood transfusions after he was born, the blood group was never an issue as he is the same as me.

From what I have read, there doesnt appear to be any conclusive medical reason for telling the hospital that your baby is from a DE or a double donor, unless something happens and they are not the same blood group as one of you.

It is a very controversial subject and it is a very personal decision, but what ever decision you make has to be right for you and your family - no one else.

Cozy


----------



## sohocat

Suitecase of dreams-oh Boo.  Cozy-thanks for your response.  I do like the idea of protecting the baby.  


sohocat


----------



## H&amp;P

Cozy - thanks so much for your reply to the post yesterday, it has really helped me as the downs testing etc was something I was not sure how i would get round as want a realistic figure but don't want it on my file as I have read things about nurses just blurting the info out. have booked for private testring anyway so will ask them to do what you did and get the figure worked out based on my age and donors.


----------



## Cozy

H&P,

Congratulations on your BFP. I hope you have a happy and healthy pregnancy.

I'm glad I could help, I know its something that a few people have been a bit concerned about.

I have heard stories about nurses blurting things out quite inappropriately aswell. 

I just didnt want anything on record anywhere, as we dont want DS or family to know. 

Cozy


----------



## midsarah

Hi so glad to see some action on this thread. Suitcase congratulations you were the first person to help me on this site and it is nice to see you got your little baby.
I am also not telling, we used donor egg and are very lucky to be 22 weeks pregnant on our first try. We have told no one and to be truthful I forget most of the time. It just isn't important. Blood group is the same and we had pgd testing so knew downs risk was ok.
Each new family is different and whatever suits your set up is fine with me. 
Good luck
Sarah


----------



## MandyPandy

I have mixed emotions on it.  We have been potentially facing DS and/or DE for the last few months.  I managed to prove the doctors wrong and laid a few good quality eggs last cycle.  We have one embie in the freezer and a fresh cycle scheduled in a month or so where hopefully I can squeeze out a few more good quality eggs before really having to think about the donor option.

In my heart of hearts,  I wouldn't want to tell the child because psychologically I'd be thinking it would somehow be 'admitting' that s/he is not mine, which is not something I'd ever want to consider.

I have thought about it in the past and think that I may only mention it should it become necessary (i.e., due to hospital treatment/sickness et al).

However ultimately, I believe I would feel a strong moral obligation to the child and I wouldn't want them to start their life with me keeping secrets from them.  I was brought up in a very open and honest family and was always told the truth about situations whether good or bad (and there were some extremely bad situations) as it meant we dealt with them as a family unit and I feel our familial bond is so much stronger because of it.

It's hard to say as until I'm in that position, I would never presume to say X or Y is the right course of action - I suppose it would all boil down to how I would feel about it when the child is born.


----------



## suitcase of dreams

midsarah - thanks hun, I got very lucky and had 2 little babies    
congrats to you too, wonderful to be first time lucky, hope the pregnancy is going well
like you, I often forget that my boys are DE conceived, as do my friends and family - whilst it's something that is part of them, and I will tell them about it in due course, it's not what defines them by any means if that makes sense...

MandyPandy - I'm sure you'll work out what's right for you and your family if and when you need to. I know everyone is different, but if it helps you to know, I have never felt (right from the day of BFP to now, when they are 4 weeks old) that my boys weren't mine...and I could not love them any more than I do   

re healthcare professionals/hospitals/tests etc, I recall we had quite a long discussion about this on one of these donor threads and the conclusion seemed to be that the main reason for telling re DE is to get accurate nuchal results but apart from that, there should be no need to say anything if you prefer not to. And as Cozy says, there are ways round the nuchal results situation too. 
One thing I would say is that I have been asked several times during pregnancy and since the boys were born re family medical history - because I am 'telling', I simply say the boys are donor conceived so we don't know the family history. If you are not telling, you may want to prepare your response to these questions (ie will you give your own family history despite knowing it's not relevant, or will you say something else and if so what? just so you don't get caught not knowing what to say!) 

Incidentally, I've not had any problems with the attitude of the nurses/midwives/health visitors etc - no one has commented on the donor side of things at all, they just mark the questions as n/a and move on    But I know others have had less positive experiences so I can totally understand the concerns here

sohocat - hope you don't mind me asking, but just wondering what you meant about protecting yourself and the baby/child? Is it that you are worried what others will say/think about DE and that they might treat you/your daughter differently? As said, I've had no probs with healthcare professionals, and I know my family and friends will treat the boys just the same as if they were biologically mine. With regard to the wider community (eg acquaintances, colleagues, nursery/teachers etc in the future) I won't be telling them about the DE...if my twins choose to tell people when they are older, that's up to them to decide...anyway, don't feel you have to answer...I was just a bit curious what you meant about protection...

Suitcase
x


----------



## Want-a-baby

Suitcase, I'm booked to undergo a double donation (DE + DS) IVF at Reprofit in November. Would you mind sharing which sperm bank you have used?
Thanks a lot  !
Best wishes for you and your boys   ,  FM


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Futuremom - have PM'd you   
Suitcase
x


----------



## sohocat

Babydreams: Thank you so much for your supportive words and kindness.  I really appreciate it!


I wanted to say that many people have said that my baby looks like me-including the doctor who delivered her.  So many people have told me she looks like me-those that know, and those that didn't know-that I am starting to think she does too.  At first I didn't-I was just so happy to have her.  I still am!  I really see the advantage of not telling.  I have already told some people, but I live in a really big city, so those that I am not close to, I probably won't see and those that I am close to won't say anything.  I needed to talk to some people I am close to about this-it's a big thing.  
It's nice to have a thread to talk about this without someone telling me what I have to or should do-there is a real need for this.


sohocat


----------



## sohocat

Suitecase-I have pm'd you


sohocat


----------



## suitcase of dreams

thanks sohocat...I have also had several people comment on how much one of my twins looks like me, apparently he's got my eyes - I just smile and don't respond! the other twin, funnily enough, looks a lot like my nephew did as a baby...or maybe we just see what we want to see?   

when it comes to telling I think there are several layers - firstly the child and telling them, then close family/friends, then everyone else. I will tell the child, and close family/friends but I see no need at all for the rest of the world to know. Not because I am ashamed, or worried about their response but simply because it is not their business and quite irrelevant to them 

as you say, good to be able to discuss these things with other people in similar situation   
Suitcase
x


----------



## sohocat

I have had so many people tell me that my baby looks like me-inclduing my pediatrician, my obgyn who delivered her, nannies whom I have interviewed who knew nothing about my ivf situation, people on the street who never knew, etc,  that I now know beyond a doubt that my genes had to have influenced her a lot in the womb.  Really.  I did not think at first that she looked like me, but the responses from so many different people in different situations has convinced me now.  I'm sure your babies look like you becuase you carried them, and it's not wishful thinking.


----------



## kizzymouse

Sohocat - I totally agree!!!


----------



## shortbutsosweet

Hi
I'm a little late to this board but my infertility journey seems to be full of twists and turns the latest being potentially egg donation. I had already decided if the ICSI had worked I would dicuss or tell anyone how I got pregnant. So while I am battling with the thought of donor eggs if I decide too go ahead again it would remain private full stop. If its abroad it will be easier to keep it secret. I have found the posts on this page very inspiring


----------



## H&amp;P

SBSS - welcome to the thread, what clinics are you looking at abroad for your OE try?

I even had someone look at my 4d scan photo on Saturday and say how much baby looked like me   , people see what they want to see.


----------



## shortbutsosweet

Thankss H and P
Initially reprofit but at the monent Dogus I think!


----------



## H&amp;P

I cannot recommend Serum highly enough if you are still deciding.


----------



## Kay123

My hubby and  feel so strongly about the importance of not telling a child and keeping total anonymity. I and we are not judgmental at all of others who may decide to tell a child in the future but for us this was just not an option. 

We have a friend who was adopted in life and now in his mid 40's who has never been married and refuses to do so or have any children on the basis that he feels how can he love someone if he does not know where he is from or who he is. I am sure there are many adults who were adopted who don't feel this way but to me it reinforces the need that every child has to feel totally loved and secure. I feel that not telling the child but providing them with constant worth and love throughout their lives cannot in anyway endanger the child or weeken its confidence. 

However in telling a child I think that one runs a grave danger of that child growing up into an adult that may be insecure and always searching for answers? For this reason my hubby and I have chosen a donor outside of the UK where we have total anonymity. I hope this may help someone who may be unsure of which way to go... these are only opinions and views  Kay


----------



## GIAToo

Kay - interestingly I know at least half a dozen adults who were adopted who feel the complete opposite to your friend  and have gone on to have very loving/happy realtionships and children.   

GIA Tooxx


----------



## shortbutsosweet

Hey Kay
I agree with you 100%. If I am successful and end up with a baby (Iam looking at tandem icsi cycle) I will never tell the child or anyone else that we had donor eggs (or used them), I explained the tandem proceedure to my partner and he said if it works he wouldn't even want DNA test to see if child is biologically mine.
I have only told onne friend that was I having problems concieving and thinking of IVF.


----------



## sohocat

I personally don't think that people who are adopted would feel like they couldn't have a relationship, etc. I have a very close friend who adopted, and her child grew up not wanting to find out about his birth parents, but having good relationships of his own. Well, she is a loving and wonderful mother too. I am thinking of not telling because of other reasons. I like what someone said before-that they feel there is really no good reason to tell. I carried my baby, and I am her mother. My body influenced her genes-epigenetics. I don't want her to feel different-I worry about that.   It's a sensitive subject, and I am sooooo glad there is this thread where we don't get steamrolled over by other's views. We are the parents and have every right to raise our child as we see fit. We need to be respected as the parents. I'm not liking the steamrolling thing I guess-sorry if I'm rambling. I think I just want to blow off some steam.    Anyway, I hope everyone is doing well,


sohocat


----------



## HMF

Hi girls

i hope you dont mind me gate crashing your thread but i would like to know your thoughts.

I am nearly 38 weeks pg with a little boy conceived using DE in serum. I am due to have a section next tuesday. 
DH and i decided very early on that we wouldnt be telling him he was donor conceived mainly because there is nothing he could do about it due to the anonymity laws in greece plus other reasons but that was mainly it. I didnt want him to torture himself wondering where he was origionally from if there was no way he could trace his genetic mum.
The only people who know are my mum (who decided not even to tell my dad as she thought it wasnt relevant) and one of my closest friends who has supported me 100% through our nightmare IF journey. I trust both with my life not to tell anyone. 
What i am wondering though is, in the future is there a risk of my son finding out? say for example he needed blood (i was not matched to blood group) we decided not to tell the maternity hospital either as i didnt want it documented anywhere in my notes. Just wondered if anyone could help reassure me re this.
Thanks
Helen x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

HMF - I'm not an expert, but yes, I suspect there is a chance that if for any reason your son were to need a blood transfusion (or perhaps an organ eg kidney) then there is always the possibility that this will raise questions -one hopes that it's pretty unlikely that he would need any of these major medical interventions though

However, a more likely scenario would be that he finds out his own blood group and yours and (assuming there is no match - ie he couldn't have resulted from you and DH's blood group combinations) realises something is amiss - this could come through a school science or family history project, through giving blood, through simple curiosity....

I'm not sure of all the different permutations of blood groups and it may be that although you didn't match to the egg donor, your son still has a blood group which _could _be a combination of you and DH - in which case you probably have no concerns. However, if he has one which is completely different it _may _be an issue later in life if he starts to dig into it

It feels like quite a remote chance, but I guess no one can say categorically that it wouldn't happen.

I think perhaps you need to establish his blood group once he is born, and then whether this could be a blood group created by you and DH and if yes, then you can be fully reassured, if not, then you may need to be more careful/have a re-think on what happens if he finds out/works it out
But as I say, I'm no expert on blood groups so perhaps someone else can help further on the science of it all 

best of luck for your c-section next week 
Suitcase
x


----------



## olivia m

A young woman in our network discovered she was donor conceived because it was found that she had a different blood group to both of her parents.  Five years later she has not yet adjusted to the knowledge that she was deceived by her parents for so long.  This is much more important to her than the knowledge that she is donor conceived.
Olivia


----------



## ~ Chux ~

Firstly apologies for gatecrashing, but I wanted to add my bit to the blood group talk as my dd2 has a different blood group to myself and my dh, despite being biologically 'ours'. This is how it was explained to me - "everyone has two copies of their blood group - e.g. AA, AO, AB etc. When a person is fertilised they recieve one lot of 'code' from each parent; e.g. if mum is AO and dad is BO, then baby can be either AB, AO, OB or OO (the first letter from the mum and the second from the dad in this example). These codes are basically either dominant or resessive. The dominant gene will be the babies blood type."

Therefore yes, a different blood group _may_ raise a question, but it's possible with genetic children too.

*HMF* - Here's hoping all goes well for you Tuesday, how very exciting!!

Chux xx


----------



## mini-me

Hi,

A and B are dominant over O
Rhesus positive is dominant over Rhesus negative
 Therefore the blood groups (1 letter plus 1 + or - from the egg and 1 letter plus 1 + or - sperm) can be as follows:

O+ (OO++ or OO+-)
O- (OO-- only)
A+ (AA++, AA+-, AO++ or AO+-)
A- (AA-- or AO--)
B+ (BB++, BB+-, BO++ or BO+-)
B- (BB-- or BO--)
AB+ (AB++ or AB+-)
AB- (AB-- only)
 Blood groups are usually identified via a blood test and can tell whether you are A, B, AB, O, rh+ or rh- (the phenotype). To get the details I have given in brackets (known as the genotype), I presume you would need a genetic test done.

My family has all 4 blood groups in it!
My mum is A, my dad B, I'm AB as is one of my sisters and the other one is O. (I have deduced from this that my parents are AO and BO!) In fact, none of my sister's children have the same blood as their parents as my AB sister married an O and my O sister married an AB. 

My DH is O+ and I'm AB+ (as was my donor) and we know for sure that DS is B+ (he could be A or B). So children can definitely have different blood groups from parents whether donor or not. If both parents are O though, the child would be O.

Hope this helps rather than confuses!  Good luck for next week.

Mini-me xxx


----------



## ~ Chux ~

> If both parents are O though, the child would be O


*mini-me* - I am O and my dh says he is O too, but dd is A??

C xx


----------



## mini-me

Chux,

After I read your post I googled 'blood types inheritance' and all sites I saw said 2 O's can only have an O child. For example (excuse the name of the website, but it was the clearest one),


http://mistupid.com/health/bloodinherit.htm
http://www.biology.arizona.edu/human_bio/problem_sets/blood_types/inherited.html (This one has a Blood Type calculator to show possible combinations.)
 I don't know enough to explain this, the only thing I can think of is are you both 100% sure of your blood groups or if it's possible to have a random mutation of blood groups. (Random mutations happen all the time in genetics but I'm not sure about blood groups.)

mini-me 
xxx

/links


----------



## HMF

Thank you girls for taking the time to reply to what is very confusing topic!!!
I think i am prepared to take the risk. I have never known my parents blood groups and its only now that i am pg do i know mine!(aged 39!!) no idea what DHs is! it is possible for a chilld to have a different blood group even when they are biologically both parents. I know at serum where i had my cycle this isnt important if it was i would have been matched to blood group too. I just wondered what the risk was. personally and i know its easy for me to say this as i am not DE conceived but if i knew i was and couldnt do anything about tracing my roots that would torture me more and i would hate to cause that distress to my child. Thats just my opinion and i know everyone has their own reason for keeping it to them selves. Thank God for a thread like this where you dont get judged for your decision!!
Thanks again
Helenx


----------



## ~ Chux ~

*Mini-me* - I really don't know what to think - dd is most definitely ours as there is no other option, but she is a different blood group to me (A whereas I am O).............dh is insistent he knows his blood group (though my Mum isn't convinced as men generally aren't tested) and says he is also O!

Chux xx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

One more interesting point. I am B+ and my sperm donor was quoted blood group 0+ on the forms. I am telling, so it won't be a real issue for us and I don't know DH's blood group anyway. But when Charley was ill in his first week with Jaundice and they had to blood type him for diagnosis (potential haemolytic disease of the newborn) and for possible exchange blood transfusion. I was sure I heard the doctor say that he was A+. This IS impossible from a B+ mother and an O+ donor. The only possible blood groups from that combo is B+ (BO++) or O+ (OO++). So either I heard incorrectly, they have used the wrong donor sperm, they have incorrect information on the correct donor profile or I had the wrong embryo (not my egg) transferred.

Most likely I heard incorrectly. I hope. I do need to clear it up as it worries me slightly. Charley is the spitting image of me and has my toes, eyes, nose and ears, so I hope he is from my egg. It does not really matter in the end though because he is gorgeous and all mine.


----------



## olivia m

The Nuffield Council on Bio-Ethics are running a year long enquiry into the ethics of telling or not-telling children about donor conception. They want to hear from people in both camps. You can let them know your views in three ways - completing the 8 question Survey Monkey questionnaire on their website; writing something in response to the 12 in-depth questions, also on the website, or just writing to them about what you think. The more responses the better...http://www.nuffieldbioethics.org/donor-conception
Olivia



This post contains an unconfirmed link/information and readers are reminded that 
fertilityfriends.co.uk or its owners are not responsible for the content of external internet sites


----------



## Elle72

I am going through my first IVF shortly, and planning if I ever succeed to go back to my home country. I have always thought to tell the child but now I am having doubts, I am not worried about people critizising me, but would be very worried of people judging my kids or make them feel different. My country does not allow donor conception, not sperm nor egg donation, so there would be very little if nothing similare situation, does only allow to married couple to fertility treatments with own eggs and own sperm. So here I am questioning, being single myself, what should I tell my kid, I would only want to protect him and I love the idea of sharing this motherhood( fingers crossed) with all my family. I am curious if any other is in the time of actually having to answer the kid questions.
Being single, if I do not tell I would have vary few options, I feel guilty at the whole idea but big part of me thinks that the guilt is the price I need to pay to make my child happy.
Thanks to allxxx


----------



## Sassy-lassy

Hi there - just wondered if there is anyone else out there who won't be telling their child due to cultural issues? 

DE IVF is not acceptable in OH's culture, so telling would run the risk of the child being singled out and ostracised

Thinking about DE IVF, it's now the only option left to us if we want a family


----------



## mrscxxx

Sorry Sassy-Lassy, I can't answer your question, but I'm sure someone else will have been through the same, at the end of the day though it's totally up to you and your DH, its your decision, no one elses!

Well, I wonder if anyone can please help us..... after a failed icsi, then tesa/ mesa procedure my hubby and I have had to deal with the fact that he will never be a biological father, brings tear just typing that! So after alot of discussion we decided to use DS and have just choosen and reserved our DS, will be starting our treatment in around 8 weeks.  Anyway, we have not told a single person about this, not even our parents, we have decided to keep this within our marriage and if lucky enough to conceive we will not be telling our child.  We feel that this would be best for our child and our family.  Right now though I am having weird thoughts, will the child resemble my DH? Will people know?  Are we doing the right thing? etc.... really just looking for some reassurance ladies.... are these thoughts normal?


----------



## mrscxxx

Babydreams09 thank you so much.. you have made us feel so much better about things! We had counselling the other day and although the lady was pushing for the telling, she did say it was our life and our choice, and we still firmly believe that this is the right route for us (not for everyone, but for us).  I have still been having some weird thoughts about our baby (if we're as lucky as you guys to have one  ) but nothing bad, just what it will look like, if it will love me and DH....I think it is only natural though and if we never had to go down this route and it had all happened naturally then maybe I would just feel the same.... but I guess we will never know that.  Of course I still feel sad that our baby will not have my hubby's genes but I guess this is something that we will get used too. In saying that I know my hubby wil be the most amazing father!

You DD is absolutely gorgeous ..... she is too cute xx


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Mrs C - I am going to tell my son his origins, apart from anything else too many people know our situation and I want him to hear it from me. But I respect the views of those who want to keep it a secret and if you haven't told anyone then it is easier. Just make sure all paperwork to do with the clinic is not in the house and never, ever mention it, especially not in anger.

In answer to your worries, I think I have quite a lot to reassure you with from my experience. There are quite a few people in our circle who do not know our situation and you would not believe the number of comments that I get about C being like his Daddy, and tall like his Daddy, and looking like bits of the both of us, has blue eyes like his Daddy etc etc. My stepson does not know as my DH does not want it to get back to his ex or cast doubt on my stepson's paternity at this stage and age. Stepson said to me the other day that he was looking at his own baby pictures and the likeness to his little brother was remarkable.

C looks very like me and my Dad so when a couple of people have asked who in the family he resembles, and I can say that very truthfully.

I also worried that people would be able to look and tell, but they really can't. They see what they want to see. I look at C and I see bits of him that resemble me like toes, ears, eyes etc, but because I don't know what the donor looks like, I don't know which bits of C are like the donor, so I can't make comparisons and don't even try and guess. It is MUCH more of a worry before the baby is born than after. Before you have fear of the unknown. After you have a perfect little bundle who is unique and perfect in everyway and just like themselves. C is like C and he is unique. No one can tell. They might think he does not look like his Dad, but they don't say it, I've never heard anyone say anything. If they don't know you have used a donor and they know you are married and had a baby they assume that the baby must be like the father in some way or taking after the mother's side of the family or grand parents. Characteristics often miss several generations anyway. My DH is very tall and so is his brother. My parents in law are not that tall, so where did that gene come from?

You will worry, but I can hand on heart promise you that as long as basic characteristics of your donor match are roughly ok, no one will be able to tell and if they think something is a bit odd they will dismiss it after about a moment's thought.

You only have to look at families everywhere to know that children even in the same family are very different - even sometimes twins are completely different. Also we have friends who are adopted and if you don't know for a long time you can't tell they are not related at all to either parent until someone tells you.

Also on the subject of my stepson, when he was little we would go out at weekends or on holiday and people would regularly refer to me as his mummy and he used to correct them - if they don't know and you are together as a family unit they will not be able to tell. 

I have a fridge magnet that says ''Anyone can be a father, it takes someone really special to be a Daddy'' (the first part is not strictly true as my DH can't be a father biologically, but the sentiment says it all).


----------



## mrscxxx

Mistletoe thank u so much for the reassurance, and your absolutley right, people see what they want too! I know loads of families where the kids don't neccessarily look like both their parents, some look like one and not the other, where as others don't look like either.... lol.....  Loving the fridge magnet btw, very true  

Thanks again for sharing your story ... x


----------



## DaisyBunny

Hi everyone    and thank you for providing such a supportive thread  . I am only just beginning to look into donor egg treatment but after many discussions with DH, we are pretty certain that we wouldn't tell any child (hopefully!). It's such a help to know that there are others choosing this route and there is much support if needed from this thread too. Take care everyone


----------



## Hopefulat35

Hi ladies can I join in please? After struggling with secondary IF (I'd never heard of hat til I had it!) I was diagnosed with early menopause. We were devastated at the time but 18 months in to out ttc journey we are matched with an egg donor and heading to Greece for transfer on Monday! So excited! 

Anyway, as the donor is anonymous and we want both our children to feel the same (DS is genetically both ours) we don't plan to tell. Only my parents know and are 100% supportive and just want a second grandchild!

The thing is what do I tell the gp and midwife? Gp knows we weren't accepting diagnosis and trying all sorts to ttc so miracle pregnancy possible. Is there any medical reason I have to tell them? I don't want it on my notes!

Thanks!m


----------



## suitcase of dreams

from what I recall the medical reasons for telling your midwife etc about a donor egg pregnancy are:

1. to ensure you get accurate results for the chromosome tests (eg Downs) if you are planning to have those tests done 
2. because there is a higher risk of complications with donor egg pregnancy apparently - I seem to remember this was a very small increase in risk of pre-eclampsia (if anyone reading this has more accurate info pls do correct me, but that's what I remember from the thread before)

I believe it is possible to tell them verbally and request nothing is put on your notes (eg if you chose to tell the sonographer for example) but I'm not sure how that works in practice and I guess you'd worry that they had written something down somewhere if you told them

overall though I seem to remember that the conclusion was that there was no absolute need to tell (as long as you were happy not to worry about the accurate risk measure for downs etc)

hope that helps
Suitcase
x


----------



## Hopefulat35

Thanks suitcase! I guess seeing as the donor is younger than me all it would mean is the reality of the test is better than what ever they tell me. Thanks!!


----------



## suitcase of dreams

hopeful, yes, that's right - a large portion of the risk for chromosomal abnormalities is based on age - so if your egg donor is younger than you this would reduce the risk based on age alone
there are the other 'markers' which they will check at 12 and 20 week scans. At 12 wks it's the nuchal fold measurement and then at 20 wks they do a more detailed look at heart etc - so it's not just based on age anyway

Suitcase
x


----------



## kizzymouse

I told the midwives and doctors etc the truth - no one gets to see your notes, no one that could ever tell your child. I have never seen my parents medical records - why would I have to?   


I don't even think about it all now, she is ours and that's that   


Good luck to everyone


----------



## lucy from kent

Hi , I'm new on here, I've been readin people's opinions and i agree it is a personal choice, I've only just had a positive result, so early days but thinking ahead to my story, as such..... We've being trying with ivf for a few years now and had told a few close friends, but as time ticked by they stopped enquiring and I stopped talking about what seemed my constant failure, other than that people dont even know we've thought about a family! Like I say we've just had a positive with our 2nd go of deivf, and apart from only one of my closest friends knowing about the use of a donor we  do not intent to tell anyone else including the doctors, but i will if needed say it was ivf. My concern which I'm hoping for some opinions on is, knowing what some of my friends are like with asking questions about things is , do I say we had ivf in London which is where I had treatment for nearly 2yrs or do I say Prague which is where we ended up having the donor treatment? Will saying a Czech hospital start to ring bells to why..... Will they start to think donor, knowing that this treatment is more viable abroad......I just want to stick to the same story cos I dont want to get caught out, but I don't know if the doctors would need to know where treatment took place......it does seem from different messages that docs don't seem to ask that much..... Got first scan next week, I know early days ,keeping everything crossed


----------



## lucy from kent

Thanks, I'm keeping fingers crossed. Before I'd been through it all I wouldn't have asked questions either, but the friends that know about the ivf had made suggestions about donor but I'd always poo pood it as at time we wanted to keep trying on our own, it's those friends who'll ask, or they'll def think it and then 9months later would be looking for similaritys .... My cousin went through ivf and again she'll ask questions....... Just wonder how many people go abroad for ivf with own eggs..... Gonna tell the nurse when I go for my scan mon because I went there before Prague and obviously knew what the scans were for, maybe she'll have some advise too ..where abouts are you going? Is that donor ?


----------



## kizzymouse

We had double donor and people always say how much Mollie looks like DH!
You just get used to the comments - I see babies with their parents and I think they look like neither! 
Once you carry the baby, give birth to the baby and look after your precious bundle there will be no question about genetics - they will be YOURS


----------



## lucy from kent

Hi, thanks think I'm OVER  thinking about things ,need to chill lol. Going to go with the ivf in Prague, that it was cheaper and not mention donor, like you all say, people will see what they want to see. I've made an appointment with mid wife and have said its ivf and not mentioned donor, got to decide whether to tell them though at appointment, I'd prefer not too, but when I had early scan which was private the nurse thought for the 12wk scan that it should be mentioned........ Got a few wks to think bout that one lol. Hope you're all well.....


----------



## daisyg

While it is a personal decision to reveal whether you did DE, I believe it would be wise medically to certainly mention you did ivf as there may be an increased risk of pre eclampsia for those doing ivf (especially DEIVF) and you really want you medical team to have as much helpful information for you during pregnancy.

The other area where the DE aspect may be of relevance is if you are an older mum and the doctors calculate your risk of abnormalities or issues based on your age rather than the donor.  You may be advised to have unecessary amnio or CVS, so this is something to consider.

Personally, I believe that the more information your medical team have the better they can care for you so you may want to consider revealing the DE aspect to your consultant and those you may think need to know.  Something to think about.

Best of luck,

Daisy
xxxx


----------



## kizzymouse

Thanks Daisy - you explained that well    Exactly all the reasons why I disclosed all information to medical staff.


----------



## LyndaLou2

HI, Can i ask a question? I have twin girls born using donor eggs this year. At the moment my plan is not to tell them they were conceived using donor eggs as i used a clinic outside the UK which uses anonymous donors, so no way of tracing them if the girls wanted to  find . Is there any way children born via donor eggs can find out they were conceived this way? For example by routine blood testing or other ways? I was told the donor is the same blood group as me. Its just if there is a way of them finding out i need to know in case i feel i have to tell them in the future. We havent told any family or friends we used donor eggs or even that we had ivf, so no one knows except us and our GP. I have asked that any reference to donor eggs were not made in medical notes.

thanks!


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Blood group if incompatible with you and partner would be the only way routinely - do you know your DH blood group? Many people don't know their partner's blood group and you would need to know both to say a particular result is impossible.

The only other way is if someone needed a transplant like kidney, liver, bone marrow and a tissue match within the family were to be looked for. There are no guarantees in any family that tissue type will match, but it is possible something might flag up that did not ring true.

And of course genetic testing. We never know that if in the future one of you had an inheritable disease, or one of the children did, genetic testing might be advocated. You also don't know how in 30-40 years time things might have changed in the world of genetics and what tests might be offered.


----------



## dumbwing07

hello

im about to undergo FET using doner eggs. The lady that donated to me is alot like me in description. I have also heard that the child is passed a small amount of my genetic material, children also learn there manerisms and characteristics from us. We have talked about it long and hard and we wont be telling our child. It is my partners biological child, if it needs an organ its not guarenteed i could give it one if i was its bio-mum anyway, or my blood, my blood group is the same as my fathers, not my mothers. The child will grow up in a family with its genetic relatives and i am the one carrying and giving birth to it, there is no need for it to be told otherwise. I beleive this would cause heartache in the long run

just my oppinion


----------



## LyndaLou2

HI Holly , thank you for the information, it is greatly appreciated.

Regards, Lynda


----------



## DaisyMartha

So glad to have found this thread.

I am sitting on the fence.  It seems the current 'fashion' is to tell.  I can see pros and cons for both cases and this is why I am so confused and not sure what to do.  Thankfully as I am due in a few weeks, I still have at least a couple of years to decide.

The things that concern me about telling  are that my daughter may feel she isn't really mine, start digging to find her 'real mother' who was an anonymous donor and won't be find anyway, which can then cause great heartache and resentment/anger.  She will be my husband's biological/genetic daughter.  I also have an older natural/non-donor-egg daughter who is 17 and I worry about her reaction when she finds out her little sister is not genetically related to her and it may make the relationship awkward both ways eventually.

The things that concern me about NOT telling are that with the way medicine is going, I think in a couple of decades genetic testing will be routine and it would be horrible to be 'found out', which would likely cause anger, resentment even rejection (of me).  It could ruin the family, ruin trust.  Also, if the child gets sick at some stage and needs transplantation of some kind, it would also probably come out.  No amount of explaining would then probably fix the betrayal I could imagine the child/person will feel.  

I didn't realize when I embarked on this how much of a dilemma I would really feel it was.  I stress over it a lot...which way to go with telling or not telling. Obviously, I'd love to just not tell but I think chances that it will come out due to what in the future will be routine - in a test of some kind - will be pretty big.

My personal view, though my child may not agree when she grows up, that we are all of HUMAN DNA and really it doesn't matter so much...but it will again if there is a medical problem where it matters.  Otherwise, it may just cause heartache to tell, for the child.


----------



## Sassy-lassy

DaisyMartha

Many congratulations on your pregnancy!!

I feel exactly the same way. Plus I hate keeping secrets. Only in our case, there are also a heap of religious/cultural reasons as to why we can't tell.  

With regard to genetic testing, I agree that this is a risk.  However, this would require a genetic test of you as well - technology is advancing yes, but perhaps testing will be more of an issue for the next generations moving forward.  At the moment, we're part of a generation with blurred boundaries - and as my consultant said when we discussed it with him, when people have doubts about their heritage, it tends to be about their fathers, not their mother.  Plus there is an oft-quoted general non-paternity rate of around 10%.

I wish we didn't live in a world where this is such an issue, but I guess that nothing is perfect - and the initial step for us is to actually have a baby in the first place! 

Best wishes xx


----------



## tw4bb

Hi Everyone

I'd like to join you if that's ok as I suspect that we wont be telling our babies about their conception.

I had assumed we would/planned to tell our twins that they were donor conceived.  However, my husband has expressed a major desire not to tell them.  His reasons are that he sees no purpose to them knowing as the donors cannot be found and his fears that they could turn round and say 'you're not my real dad' later would be more than he could bear.  I feel inclined to go along with him for several reasons: it was me that pushed to go this route, he was not keen as he'd worried I wouldn't cope if it didn't work (as it didn't with our own eggs/sperm on 3 occasions and I had a breakdown).  Since they were born he's been calling himself (Uncie Jim), although I'd noticed in the past few weeks he was saying 'daddy' instead - he's said pretty much that he either wants them to believe totally he's their dad or if they will be told otherwise, then he can't cope and would see himself as more of an uncle.  It is both our names on the birth certificates.

I do agree a bit as well that I can't see what purpose it would serve to tell them - it would, I believe, be different if they had been 'adopted' as already existing children, or even if the donors were traceable.  However, they don't have another mummy and daddy, they have anonymous donors.

The only thing holding me back is that I don't like secrets and would hate for them to find out by accident particularly if they were at a difficult stage of their lives growing up.  I think it's also different for me as I was fostered/adopted and my two brothers were also adopted (none of us blood related), so the dna thing matters less to me, whereas my husband's background is fairly conventional.

Hope this doesn't sound too confused.


----------



## cherry1

hey all does this thread still get posted on? 




Tw4tb-
i am in a really similar position to you      dh agreed to donor sperm, if we did not tell the child that they were donor conceived. i agreed, although at the time i did raise concerns over it.


now i an 7 weeks pregnant and what should be a happy time is tainted by my fear of the future.  my biggest concern is that i was open with friends/family and told them we may consider donor... dh then asked me to back track, which i did... but feel awful that we will lie to the child and worried that one day someone will accidentally let the child know... how awful.. dh says its unlikley and in fairness only parents and one close friend really truly knows, others may suspect...  but i feel bad lying.
i will do it though because dh will only bond that way. 
wah, i feel like a bad person and like i didnt think all this through properly before jumping in, maybe i was selfish in my total desire to have a child but i didnt mean to be and this child will be so desperately loved.


xxxx


----------



## Moragob

HI Cherry

It's a difficult thing to decide.  I am 30 weeks with a donor egg and we were pleased to go to Spain as it was anonymous and thought we wouldn't tell the child.  However my DH then told his parents and brother that our pregnancy was donor egg and so we have now decided that as other people know we will tell our child so that they don't find out accidentally.  I have since told other people - my sister and some close friends and have had only positive responses - no judgments or negative comments at all.  Main comments have been how pleased people are for us, how generous the donor is, how wonderful that we have gone after our dream.  I guess we were a bit scared of others judging us.

I think as time passes, children born with donor eggs, sperm or double donor will become more common - no-one passes comment on IVF children after all.  Our feeling was that having a secret is both difficult and potentially damaging if let slip and so honesty is the best policy.

What are your Dh's reasons for not wanting to tell anyone?  Sometimes our minds are our own worst enemies and perhaps by talking through his concerns/fears you can overcome them? 

You are not a bad person for wanting a child and making this happen - does your DH know how you are feeling now?

I wish you all the best and hope that you can enjoy the rest of your pregnancy. 

Morag


----------



## DizziSquirrel

tw4bb ((hugs))
I am sad to read your husband thinks of himself as an uncle  taking the donor route is a major emotional decision, did you both have counselling ? I think you would be best contacting the fertility counsellor at your clinic, if thats not possible ask your local fertility unit or GP, your children need to have you both 100% comited to the telling no telling so they will have a secure knowledge in the future the DCN may be able to help here too, 

Cherry ((hugs))
I think you both need some counselling too - or more info from the DCN often men require Facts and "proof" that its OK to have a child via a donor, this may mean you still dont tell, which if its right for you both is fine.
keep talking explain how you feel, maybe work out what you will say and when, try and cover all angles, but please be honest.

a few weeks before our tx, my husband too decided the donor telling was a problem for him hes a private man and he rightly said its no one else's buisness but ours, he wanted to say nothing and hates the fact others know even now, however I pointed out that I couldn't lie to save my life, and I wouldn't feel happy lying to our child eventually, and that actually being a part of FF and having met many members lots of people knew our situation and plan! including my parents and best friends outside of FF therefore impossible to put a lid back on. and so one day inadvertently she would find out.
We battled it out for quite a while and I researched on here so I was confident in how and when we would tell and why, this led us to take a "telling" route,  however now she is here and it is actually very hard, you actually do Forget, however my other half still finds it very difficult to discuss, and I think he is still trying to "not tell" he wont discuss this when it comes up every so often  
I told her all the time when she couldn't talk back as a baby   but I say nothing now to her 
but will when she asks where babies come from etc, 
I have a poem from here printed ready for her to read and I will probably get some literature from the dcn, however I am aware this is not best for everyone, 
as a couple you have to be sure of your reasons and confident in going forward as a family, you have to do whats best for the child/ren and your family.

~Dizzi~


----------



## Jz5000

GIAToo said:


> Just bookmarking
> GIA Tooxxx


Hello, I am 41 yo and my husband and I are planning to move forward with DE this March. I don't want to tell. I feel like that is so private and no ones business. We have a 5 yo daughter with my eggs. I wouldn't want this baby to feel any different in any way. If they know, they will feel different... Is this wrong of me. Is there anyone else out there who doesn't want to tell?
Jz5000


----------



## Jz5000

Hello, is there anyone out there that is planning on not telling their DE child. I have a 5 year old with my own eggs and best bet for anymore is with DE. I do plan on moving forward with that but I don't wont to tell. It seems that most people want to tell so I feel a bit alone. I am very private and I don't want my DE child to feel any different. How can they not feel different with that info. 
Jz5000


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

Plenty of people probably do not tell, but they don't discuss it openly. I would suggest that if you plan not to tell that there is no possible way ever of your child finding out through paperwork etc as it would be devastaing that your parents lied to you or kept the truth from you if you did find out later on.
Of course we do not know what advances there will be in genetic medicine in the furture and there is always a possibility of something happening in the furture that could lead to discovery.
This is why I feel that honesty from the start is best, but it is up to you and no one is judging your decision.  Whatever decision you make though has to be before the child can understand and kept for life and you have to be able to live with it.
Things do crop up over time - like the nuchal translucency test - do you put your age or donor's?, whether there is a family history of genetic conditions (my baby has a tongue tie and had jaundice as a baby and I was asked about family history), the possibility of bone marrow transplant or kidney for a sibling etc. You would need to watch your reaction to people commenting on looks or features. Some donor conceived people who find out later I have heard say that they always knew there was a big secret, but could not put their finger on it.


----------



## hogmeister

I have no intention of telling our twins that they are donor conceived and have only told a cou


----------



## hogmeister

Phones! ...couple of friends and no family so have to trust that it will never be revealed by accident.


----------



## Jz5000

Hello, thank you for your responses! It sure does seem to be that way. That there are not too many people comfortable talking about it. I know they must be out there. I joined this group because it at least mentions it. Thank you for that. My other support group (us) there is NO mention of not telling.. Like this whole process of DE, it helps to talk and work through it. Xo


----------



## MsPeaches

Hi all

Hey *Jz5000* - there are both telling and not telling threads on this site, separated because in times past folks' passions have got a bit aroused and there have been some hot disputes - at the end of the day it is a very personal decision whether to tell or to not tell, and each are valid for their own reasons.
I am still on the fence - I would like to tell the child for the child's knowledge and empowerment, but it is how the world will react / make the child feel that concerns me. Even before our little hoped for ones are born, we are already taking such care for their welfare! 
I have some good friends who are really open and positive, and non-judgemental, but equally I have friends who seem really liberal and open minded, but who cannot cope with any form of ART. 
I had a few goes at IVF some years ago, and was being very open about it to friends - and that is when I found out how different people's attitudes could be. Now that I am doing double donor embryo transfer - I am really taking my time to consider what the best course of action is, and have only told one friend.
So it comes back to us doesn't it - and what we feel is best.
All good wishes to everyone here - MsP


----------



## Sassy-lassy

Hi JZ500

I can really relate to what you're saying.

DH and I are NOT telling for extremely good religious and cultural reasons, though these days, it seems that the majority of information and support available is for The Tellers, which can be very isolating for the rest of us.  

Recently, I got in touch with the DCN to see if they could offer any help.  Unfortunately they couldn't.  In fact, I even learned that DCN has hardline members who think that if you're not prepared to tell the child you shouldn't use donors and should accept the fact that you'll never have children. You can imagine 1) how upsetting that was, and 2) how strange I found it to be harshly judged by people who themselves have had fertility problems...

I would like to say that although the current practice is to tell, there are still plenty of us who don't, but perhaps are too scared to put our heads above the parapet for fear of censure.

In an ideal world of course, gamete donation would be universally accepted, and it'd be recognised that this does not mean that a recipient is any less of a 'parent' because of it.  Unfortunately, we do not live in an ideal world. 

So... Rest assured, you are NOT alone.  Even if the wealth of information out there on 'how to tell' might suggest otherwise.

Best wishes and happy to communicate off-board

xx


----------



## juju81

I don't think anyone should  be judged for not telling. I also don't think they need the reasons why it's 'good to tell' constantly re said.  Like you say, everyone has their own reasons for not telling. I've told far too many people now so have to tell Noah really. I do sometimes wish I hadn't but we have and so we will tell.  Like with anything, some people are a bit too passionate about some things but go about it in the wrong way....some breastfeeders are the same


----------



## olivia m

I hope I will be allowed just to comment on Sassy-Lassy's mention of her contact with DCN, which was with me.  It is true that we have a HANDFUL of hard-line members who would judge those who do not tell, even for cultural/faith reasons.  The vast majority of members would be hugely sympathetic to S-L's situation, which she explained to me.  I do not include myself amongst the hard-liners and offered my personal support.
Olivia


----------



## Sassy-lassy

Hi Olivia, 

Yes, you were very sympathetic, and yes, you did indeed offer your personal support - which I greatly appreciate.  

I was nevertheless shocked to hear about DCN's 'hard-liners' and thought it would be helpful for people to know of their existence so they don't stumble upon them by accident!  Some of us trying to build a family with donor assistance already face prejudice from certain religious leaderships and less forward-thinking societies.  At a time when we're already feeling vulnerable, the thought of facing further censure from members of a support organisation (albeit members holding such views are in the minority) is not helpful.

I'm very grateful you let me know that some DCN members - even if there's only a handful of them - would be hostile to our 'not telling' intentions.  Such individuals are fortunate not to find themselves in our position!  

Anyone prepared to go against the grain of prevailing cultural/religious attitudes to have a family clearly wants and will love such children very much.  Similarly, they will not want to see their offspring rejected/bullied or in any way perceive themselves as inferior to others purely because of the circumstances of their conception.

I wish we lived in an ideal world, but we are where we are.  Unfortunately, there are very few resources for people in my position, but that doesn't mean to say we aren't out there!!

Sass


----------



## Jz5000

Hello,
Thank you to those of you who replied. It is appreciated! Yes, my husband and I do have our reasons for not telling. It is hard because you do feel judged and the resources are not out there. 
Jz


----------



## Sassy-lassy

Hi everyone,

If anyone is aware of any resources/organisation that support parents who are NOT in a position of being able to tell their child please can they post details or send me a PM.  

Many thanks


----------



## alexine

Olivia with all due respect I don't understand why you post on this particular thread. It seems to be set up for people who have decided they don't want to tell their children. Ironically I do intend to tell my child but I strongly feel there should be a space for people to discuss a different approach without someone "putting a leaflet in their hand" so to speak. 
xxA


----------



## Caz

Ladies just to note, the main reason why we created separate Telling The Child and Not Telling The Child threads in this area was to allow people to be able to gain support for their personal choices without argument or judgement: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=248488.msg4070069#msg4070069

I would request that everyone respects this and, if you are pro telling the child, then please use this thread instead: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=248489.0

That said, I do believe that while I appreciate the DCN has been discussed here in the spirit of information sharing, they have always made it clear they are pro-telling and Olivia, as a founder member of the DCN, does have a right to address public critique of her organisation. Please just don't do it in this thread. 

Caz


----------



## Jz5000

Hello,
I just wanted to thank alexine, babydreams09, and caz. Because of this thread I have found a couple people to talk to about my feelings and I am grateful for that. I have found no other websites out there that even mention not telling. So thank you Fertility Friends for making that possible for us. Good luck to everyone and I am open to talk to you if you want. jz.  Xo


----------



## Jz5000

I forgot to mention to Sassy-lassy. If you want PM me any time to chat I'm here! Xo


----------



## MsPeaches

Hello, as I mostly lurk, but yes - agreed, the separate threads are for the prime reason of providing a safe place.  And this is the thread that I come to as I am more inclined not to tell, and I learn a lot from here, as well as other threads.  Again - this is meant to be a safe place to post about NOT TELLING - as a real option, for real reasons.  All the best to all of us here!  MsP


----------



## Jz5000

Banydreams, I agree, I would never try to influence my opinion upon someone. I think it is the harder choice but we feel its best for our family. My daughter (with OE) is 5 now and she asks all the time for a sibling. It breaks my heart.. We've been trying for so long now. We are scheduled to do ED cycle in mid March. Praying everything stays on schedule. It's funny you mention the bound  your daughter and husband share. It's the same with my husband and daughter too!! They are so close. Yes, It is pretty quiet here. At least I have been able to talk to a few people who are ok with my choice. I've really needed that lately. I just needed to connect with others who know my pain. I'm 41 and have had 3 recent m/m's. The people in my life that do know about my m/m's feel bad for me and I know they mean well. It's just they really have NO idea of the pain and loneliness you feel. And I think some of them even get a bit uncomfortable. So, I just don't talk about it too much. They even encourage me to stop and be content. Thats tough to hear... The only person who knows about DE is my sister. I can only talk her ear off for so long. She actually is pregnant right now with her first. We started out pregnant together in early Oct. 2012. Our due dates were 1 week apart. My last m/m was couple weeks ago  We got pregnant that time on accident. Already had donor picked out. Sorry I spilled my guts now I happy you replied. Thank you. 

And msPeaches, thank you for your kind words. We really do need a safe place to talk about stuff. I have found no other websites (community's) that have this. 

Take care everyone and thank you . Jz


----------



## Jz5000

MsPeaches I just wanted to say, I think you are amazing and strong. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers that in Jan. you have success!  Xo.  Jz


----------



## Jz5000

Hi msPeaches, I just saw your reply to me. Yes, I'm very afraid of reaction from my family. Most of them would not like it or understand it. They do not agree with any form of ART. And my list goes on. So, I just thought it would help to talk to other people in my situation or that would at least understand and see how they are handling things. It sounds like you have had an amazing journey your self. You will be in my thoughts this month. I wish you the best and stay strong! Xo.  Jz


----------



## Jz5000

Babydreams,  I need the spell check on. Sorry about that, bandydreams. It's late here


----------



## Jz5000

Babydreams, it is kind of hard. I guess I just have to keep my thoughts focused on our future and pray things work out for my family as well. I will definitely update!! Are you 7 weeks? Congratulations on your babies 
Take care!


----------



## Jz5000

Sassy-lassy -  if you read this, your inbox is full!! I was just wondering how you are doing? I hope all is well  jz


----------



## Sassy-lassy

Hi Jz5000

My inbox is now emptied - thank you for letting me know!!

I'm good... ET is now imminent for me, so I am starting to get excited and a bit stressed, probably in equal measure.

Earlier this week, I attended an event which considers the issues associated with donor parenthood hosted by the PET.

I took away some really positive messages, but was also horrified at one woman in the audience who denounced Non-tellers, declaring that she knew of at least one family where she suspects the parents of "passing off" a donor conceived child as their own, therefore "denying" it knowledge of its "real mother"[]. Such people terrify me - is it any surprise that increasingly, people who cannot tell - sometimes for very good reasons - feel as if they're being driven underground by such attitudes? I feel really threatened by people like this - she sounded as if she was ready to pounce and "out" the unfortunate parents concerned!!!

In the interests of balance however, it should be said that Olivia M was an official speaker, and it is clear from what she said that not all Tellers share this other woman's seemingly uncompromising stance.

I wish there was more support available to people like DH and myself. At the very least however, a bit more respect from some quarters for people's cultural, religious and practical perspectives would go a long way to ease the [unwanted] burden associated with Non-telling parenthood .

Anyway...

How's it going at your end?

Sass x


----------



## Jz5000

Hi Sass
I am so happy to hear you are getting closer!! Keep me posted, OK. I agree, it is unfortunate that some people react like that. It makes me feel threatened too.  I've wanted to talk a few times lately, but it is so quite on this thread and I'm just afraid there's  no one to talk to. No replies. I also go on another forum sometimes and it is even more quite. Well, we are still waiting on our donor to finish her cycle with the family she has been helping first. She was suppose to start her meds 2 weeks ago, with an early Feb transfer. I'm thinking it will be late Feb now. They have had many hold ups because they are also using a surrogate and have had some trouble with that.   the agency keeps telling me not to worry and be patient, so I'm really trying. It's hard. Hopefully late March to early April for us. It's hard for me to keep the negative thoughts away, like her backing out ect. That's my biggest thing right now. Trying to stay positive. Good to hear from you, keep in touch and I will listen if you need to vent about stuff or just chat. I will keep you posted as well. 
Jz x


----------



## Jz5000

Hogmeister
if you are reading this, check your Pm's! I hope you are doing well!
Jz x


----------



## sohocat

Sassy-lassy
I haven't been on this thread in a while and just came across what has been talked about recently. I just wanted to say you are not alone in feeling intimidates by DNC. I know they are pro-tell from other postings, so I never called them as I didn't want to be judged. I had a friend who has donor egg twins tell me that I was lying to them by not telling them. That was her first response. Needless to say, she is an ex-friend now. What a wacko!  No one has a right to judge us. And it is isolating. I haven't been on this site in a while because it didn't seem there were many postings, and also, I have been so busy with other things. But now this is on my mind. And I don't like other people posting on here who aren't no tell-go post somewhere else. This is the only place too that I know of where I can find support for this view. It needs to be respected!


----------



## Jz5000

sohocat, 
Hi! We will not be telling either. I just had to post right now. I think you are so right, the telling camp should stay on their own thread... I'm not very active on here at the moment my self. It is very quite. I always check in to see if there is any new postings. I have a daughter that is 5 with OE. We want a sibling for her and hopefully will be cycling in April. We are waiting for our donor to finish current cycle. Will you be starting a cycle too?

Hi hogmeister, and sassylassy - if you are reading this. I hope the two of you are doing well and I think about you often! X


----------



## Me Myself and I

Hi to you all,

Unlike so many of you, I am not pregnant - not even close yet - and really only just officially starting the whole ball rolling. 

I understand that anyone conceived by donor sperm/eggs is able to trace their biological parent at the age of 18. Can someone answer for me:

 If the child is not told about the donor involvement is there anyway that they could attempt to trace the donor on a hunch that they could be a donor conceived child?
 Could the child ask the GP at the age of 18 if they were donor conceived? (Would it be in the child's notes, if the GP is obviously awware that this was how the child was conceived?)
Can any single women please give me examples of what they have/intend to share with their child if they do not intend to tell them?
Many thanks for taking the time to answer my queries - this is something that is quite a weight bearing down on me, as I am in quite a quandary atm, and I have not even got to the baby making point!

MMI


----------



## suitcase of dreams

MMI - pretty sure child could not attempt to trace donor just on a hunch - there would be nowhere for them to start looking if you see what I mean
yes, they could in theory ask GP/ask to see a full copy of their medical notes. If you intend not to tell, I would advise either not telling GP or requesting nothing be put in your GP or hospital notes. I think on balance in this situation it's prob best not to tell GP/hospital as you'll never be able to be sure they didn't write it down somewhere and it could then end up in the child's notes 
As far as I am aware only reason for telling hospital is at 12 wk scan to get accurate risk of downs/other syndromes and also because there is slightly higher risk of pre-eclampsia with DE so it's good for your consultant to know. but am sure you could work round those 2 things if you wanted to keep the DE aspect completely quiet
the ability to trace only applies to those who were conceived in the UK (and a few other countries like Aus/US) where donors are ID release. In the UK the child can apply to HFEA for donor information when they turn 18.  In other countries where donors are anon, children would not be able to trace their donor in the future and there would be no central record of their conception (in UK clinics are obliged to register info with HFEA)
I'm single but planning to tell so prob can't help much with what to tell the child but if you do have any questions, feel free to PM me
I think you could very easily not tell re donor eggs whether single or not, but it's def harder being single and not telling about donor sperm because not only the child but everyone else will naturally wonder/ask where/who the father is (whereas no one thinks to ask if you used your own eggs) 
also worth saying (think it's been said here before) that if you don't plan to tell the child, best not to tell anyone else at all. otherwise you may worry that eventually they will hear it from someone
anyway, as I say, if you want to chat about all this a bit more, feel free to message me, I know how confusing it all seems at the start
wishing you the best of luck,
Suitcase
x
PS hopefully not offending anyone by posting on not telling thread but just wanted to help MMI


----------



## Me Myself and I

Thank you so much Suitcase!
I guess I shall have to wait - I hope - for some other posters to offer some advice re what to say if not telling - especially if having a sperm donor and single!



suitcase of dreams said:


> MMI - pretty sure child could not attempt to trace donor just on a hunch - there would be nowhere for them to start looking if you see what I mean


So does this mean if a child was to randomly contact HFEA or the equivalent organisation in twenty years time - so uch could change in two decadeds and it could be more 'the norm', would they in principle not be able to just go in and say , "Can you identify my 'father'?"



suitcase of dreams said:


> yes, they could in theory ask GP/ask to see a full copy of their medical notes. If you intend not to tell, I would advise either not telling GP or requesting nothing be put in your GP or hospital notes. I think on balance in this situation it's prob best not to tell GP/hospital as you'll never be able to be sure they didn't write it down somewhere and it could then end up in the child's notes
> As far as I am aware only reason for telling hospital is at 12 wk scan to get accurate risk of downs/other syndromes and also because there is slightly higher risk of pre-eclampsia with DE so it's good for your consultant to know. but am sure you could work round those 2 things if you wanted to keep the DE aspect completely quiet


It will already be in my GP notes then. Would such information automatically get transferred from my notes to the child's on birth?



suitcase of dreams said:


> I'm single but planning to tell so prob can't help much with what to tell the child but if you do have any questions, feel free to PM me


Sorry for asking so publically, and if too much please say and I will PM you, what do you intend to tell your children and from what age?

Thank you for your reply.


----------



## suitcase of dreams

MMI happy to talk about it in public but not appropriate for me to talk about telling on this thread - I'll PM you   
in answer to your other questions - hmm, in theory if child was conceived in UK, yes they could go to HFEA with their details and ask for info about their donor, but I suspect they would need certain details to do this - such as clinic where conceived etc - and they would not know this? of course we can't predict how things will have changed in 20yrs time but I would imagine they would need to prove they were the right person and to do that they'd need more than just their name if that makes sense?
re GP notes, no, don't think those would get transferred to child as can't see any reason why and child would not be able to see your notes (you can only request copies of your own). point at which to be careful would be registration with midwife and then hospital appts when pregnant as this may then get transferred to the child's notes
Suitcase
x


----------



## Mistletoe (Holly)

I wonder if you were single and it was obvious you had used a donor male, if they went and asked would the HFEA tell them that there were donor eggs too automatically?


----------



## suitcase of dreams

I would assume if the child at 18 went to HFEA and requested identifying info about their donor, HFEA would give them sperm and egg donor information if egg donor had been used
however, child would have to not just find out that they were donor conceived but also have appropriate identifying information as I'm sure HFEA makes rigorous checks before handing out identifying information to children - so it wouldn't be enough for a child to 'suspect' they are donor conceived and to go to HFEA, give their name and ask for more info
that said, who knows how things will be in 18-20 yrs time when children born now come of age? things could look very different then perhaps
plus there is no reason for a child or other person to assume that you have used a sperm donor just because you are a single woman - plenty of single women get pregnant naturally with an ex partner or one night stand or holiday romance or whatever. certainly the majority of 'new' people I have met since having my children have assumed that I was separated from my partner or that I'd had a bit of a fling. not one actually made the leap to sperm donor without me telling them    and this despite the fact that I have twins (where the assumption of fertility tx is often much higher if you see what I mean)
Suitcase
x


----------



## Sun Flower

It all seems very obvious to us all (as sadly we have all been through this very tough fertility journey, and I still am, not got my longed for baby yet!) but my point is, when me and hubby see twins, or an older couple With a brand new baby, we always say ooh I wonder if they had a little bit of help, such as IVF or donor or whatever, just because we know all about it. But most people out there have no knowledge about donor treatment or the ins and outs of IVF it's not the first thing that springs to their mind. It's jus us lot   it's at the front of our minds all of the time, but for people who conceive naturally or easily it's not even on their radar, I don't think.

Hope that helps and makes sense   

Sun flower xx


----------



## Jz5000

Me, myselfandI - hello, my circumstances are a bit different but we are also moving forward with DE soon. We do not plan on telling and have not told anyone, except my sister. She will be the only one. I feel at least this way we always have the option should we change our minds. I live in the US and will be using an agency over here. My donor is anonymous, although we do have a lot of info about her and pictures through the agency. I don't think there would be any way the child could find her. They wouldn't have anywhere to go as far as I know. I don't think I will be telling the Dr either, nor sure yet. I don't want it documented anywhere. I'm open to talk if you ever want to. If I was single and could do this, I would.  Having that little person to take care of and to love you is the best thing in the entire world. Good luck 
to you. xx

Suitecaseofdreams - hi. You didn't offend me at all. You were very sweet and offered lots of info. Thank you for being conscientious, I appreciated it!!!


----------



## Jz5000

Its so quiet here   I was just thinking about you ladies and wondering if anyone reads here anymore. I hope everyone is doing well. Just wanted to update, we are finally getting on with it. I started BCP a few weeks ago and our donor is ready to go. We are looking at a end of April transfer date! Yay!!! 

I've been thinking about MsPeaches - how are you doing?? I hope you are well.


----------



## MsPeaches

Hi there!

I've bookmarked this site so when new posts come on I come and have a look!

Hi *Jz5000* - see my sig, I am currently about 5 weeks into my BFP!!! Scan in two weeks - will see how many are in there!

I have only told two friends the whole story behind this - and they are both totally supportive of the journey, and the fact that I am not telling at this stage. I had the intuition that they were the ones to tell - and I was spot on. I have told a couple of other friends too - but as far as they are aware, they just know I have become pregnant, and I don't go into the details of how! Just that it obviously happened while I was overseas. People "work it out" for themselves!

The information about their beginnings belongs to my future child/children - and I know I have a couple of years to really digest what that will mean. I just don't feel society is supportive enough yet.

Hello to everyone else, and all lurkers - hope all is going well for you all, love MsP xxx


----------



## Jz5000

MsP - Yay!! I am SO happy for you, congratulations! You will be in my thoughts and prayers. I too have told 2 people, my mom and sister. I'm not sure society is supportive enough yet my self. I hope to be right behind you. I am suppose to cycle in late April  
I'm glad you posted, was thinking about ya! 
Hi to everyone else! Jz xxxx


----------



## DizziSquirrel

Some posts have been removed pending review, Sorry.


----------



## Sassy-lassy

Wow, Ms Peaches... Congratulations!!

Ah.. I have now just seen that a chunk of posts have been removed, so actually, your posting was back in March..  Well, I hope all is still going well for you.

x


----------



## Jz5000

Hi Ladies! I hope you are all doing well. I still check in from time to time.

MsP - hi, hope your still doing well!! I'm still waiting I've had immune issues going on so everything is on hold.


----------



## MsPeaches

Hi everyone, had my wee boys on 30 October - so so happy!  Really interested in the not telling issue - people are so much  more inquisitive when you are older and single.  They know I went to Spain and came back pregnant - so basically a lot of people are making assumptions and constructing their own story about it - I really wish they would not be so fascinated in the makings and just concentrate on the bubs!  Friends I have told say that it will all die down soon.  In the meantime, I am musing on how to work with this with my little ones when they are older - there is no way we can trace the egg or sperm donors, so I figured not telling was better for this reason, as well as the fact that when I last did IVF and was public about it, I met with a lot of judgement from surprising quarters - I do not want my boys having to deal with that, it is not fair on them.  In a perfect world I would tell, but people can be so cruel I have discovered.  Be interested to see how others are going to work with the "not telling" aspect as their wee ones grow.
All the best, K x


----------



## Jz5000

MsP - I don't log on much any more but I was thinking about a few of you and thought I would take a look. I'm so glad I did!!! Wow.... I can't believe you have 2 babies now. I am so so HAPPY for you! Your dreams came true. Congratulations.  Well,  I have some good news as well. I'm 14 weeks pregnant!!!! We had 2 in there but one didn't make it. Thankful and blessed we have one healthy baby in there still. I still feel the same as before as far as not telling people. I'm not sure how we will handle things at home. Our plan is to see what feels right and figure it out as we go. I do still keep in touch with another gal on here who had her babies early this year and I ask her a lot of questions. We have friends that are starting this process too. We talk a lot about it as well. This time I won't take so long to check back. Again, I'm so happy for you. All the best. xx jz5000


----------



## Boocat73

Hi everyone.. I just wanted to thank you all as I am just about to embark on my last Donor cycle  ( 2 failed with Reprogenesis and 5 Icsi's failed with ARGC , the Lister and Serum) and as some of you have said..we not-tellers seem so few and far between that this thread is a godsend. I have had first hand experience with a cousin who went off the rails after he found out he was adopted and many chats with him saying he harbours such  anger towards his real parents that projects onto my Aunt and Uncle. Please please i don't mean to upset anyone who is thinking of adopting ..It is the most magical and kind thing to do ..its just with my family it was complicated. He may always have been a difficult case regardless of the adoption, but it has made me weary. I also watched a documentary about children from Donors and some of the children felt lost and different. This has made me make the unpopular decision of not telling if a miracle happens and I fall pregnant . 
I am using a donor with mine and my husbands blood grouped from a Czech Republic Clinic so there will hopefully be no way of the child finding out. But I'm so worried to hear of schools that are doing DNA tests in class ..how absolutely terrifying . I would be ruined if the poor child found out this way and that we had load to them . Is this a way of finding out ? I am surprised the schools aren't more aware .. but perhaps I'm being silly and its impossible to find out that we aren't a match.

Good luck to you all .. I really hope I haven't offended anyone xxx


----------



## Big hat

Just had a quick look on here and saw the past few posts and felt prompted to respond.  When we started out on this journey I suppose DH and I may have had some slightly different views. Since we started this latest round (some 10 years later) my DH has been adamant that 'everyone is entitled to one 'off' comment when they find out we are expecting but after that, they are either with us or against us (his large family have a feeling that insults can be issued with impunity). At first I was quite taken aback by his approach but now have to say I am wholeheartedly in agreement.

When we were married, we had a parade of people doing readings (so they could feel involved, and have their moment 'up on the stage' etc) but now, we both feel that the health, happiness and wellbeing of our child(ren) will be of the utmost importance to us.  I'm afraid trying to make others feel better by involving them in subjects that are, in reality, none of their business or concern is something we are no longer willing to entertain.  Our focus will be giving our child(ren) the most positive experience of life, surrounded by some of the wonderfully positive people we have in our lives, and if the situation dictates we have to review whether or not we have to tell our child(ren) the truth, that is something we will have to prepare for and consider if the time arises. 

Boocat, your post was interesting.  We have used a donor with, I think a different blood group to me.  I'll find out from the clinic which one it was so, if there is a DNA experiment at the school I'll just say my blood group is ####, and if need be they can do the swab or whatever of DH and that should be that. 

I suppose the truth is, until we meet the person/people currently growing inside we will not know who they will be or what they will be capable of taking on in life (all 4 of my siblings' children are very, very different, and I definitely think a one-size fits all approach would have been disastrous for at least 2 of them)

Phew.  That was a bit more than I was anticipating....

xxx


----------



## Boocat73

Hi Curlyone,

i completely agree with what you're saying..we wont know how we feel or what to say until we are hopefully blessed with a child and then only the future can tell. I also feel people are very happy to sprout their opinions when they feel its necessary so we too are telling very few people..infact my parents in law and thats it. They are amazing and never judge so I feel confident in their knowledge. Its just such a pity that we are the minority ..I think people see us as selfish in not telling the truth but I just feel so daunted by the whole process. I remember the day when I met a lovely woman who was just about to embark on a donor cycle and I was only on my 4 th IVF and said I didn't know if I could ever go through with it .. well, 5 years on I have done 2 already and it now seems just one of life 's hurdles that we must jump over. Let hope we are all blessed with baby dust xxx good luck again xxxx


----------



## ElsieMay

Good to see this thread active again!  Congratulations on the new arrivals.
My little girl is 5 now and has known she is double donation since being a toddler.  I have had may doubts along the way if this was the right choice especially when she started school as children can be so cruel.  I told close friends and family, as a single lady one aspect of the donation is difficult to hide!!  However, when it came to school I have told nobody as this is my childs social group and the choice to tell is hers and I am also mindful of teasing.
I am hoping that my daughter will feel comfortable and confident with her origins and be able to deal with it, I guess time will tell.  She knows I wanted her, the doctors wanted her and the donors wanted her so feels proud of this.  No doubt there will be teenage tantrums but who doesn't??
My daughter also wanted to know where her friends baby sisters had come from - "that's disgusting, I'm going to do what you did!" she said.  Sometimes you just have to laugh!
EM


----------



## Twinkle Toes 14

Hi, 
I'm 11 weeks pregnant using donor egg and husbands sperm. 

I'm going back and forth on whether to tell our child. I feel it will be very difficult carrying this knowledge without telling our child. However, I've been goggling DE child experiences on the web and found some disturbing stories of feeling resentful about losing the genetic link to the donor. of course I understand that a lot of DE children feel more positive ..and wouldn't feel the need to vent on a website. 

We had the treatment abroad, so our child will have no real opportunity of connecting with the donor when they get older ( a decision I now regret). So if we told our child about being created from a donor egg, they would not be able to get closure from potentially meeting up with their donor. I only have the very basic of information about the donor, not even a picture etc ...so I wouldnt be able to help our child here. 

Absolutely no one knows about DE except myself and DH. Our Dr and he hospital are not aware. I'm 44 and told hem we used frozen eggs to conceive. 

I dont like the lies and am naturally a very honest person, but I'd rather deal with my feelings than burden our innocent child. 

Could I have your thoughts on my situation? 

Thanks.


----------



## UK-Canuck

Hi Twinkle Toes

I must admit I'd told myself I wouldn't look at this thread as we are very much in the telling camp, although I'm only PUPO at the moment (only about 9 weeks behind you hopefully!) so who knows what pregnancy hormones will do to me!

My DH & I joke we can't even lie about who ate the last chocolate in the house, so are far too open & honest for the idea of trying to keep donor eggs a secret, it seems impossible to us. Admittedly I had far more of an issue and massive stress about telling my very catholic parents we were doing IVF, so after a couple of totally failed cycles a jump to donor eggs didn't seem that huge. We've also found a lot of support from the Donor Conception Network and I figured I'd order their kid's story book on egg donation, their DVDs and read lots of their stuff and see how I/we felt about whether we wanted to tell or not.  In the end for us it was an overwhelming "tell". 

Through the DCN we've learnt that the vast majority of negative stories about donor conception on the internet are from teenagers/adults who found out later in life, which obviously would be a massive shock to anyone that their parents had kept such a substantial bit of information from them about their origins. I would also worry going to the doctors and being asked if things run in the family, when obviously we don't know, I would also worry that as science moves forward & genetic testing for things might become more commonplace, that "the secret" would accidentally get out. Let a alone the child having some sort of genetic condition that we don't have ...

By not telling anyone it puts a huge burden on you & you won't have any sort of support network for yourself (& DH) - and we know how stressful this infertility roller coaster can be - it's not to be underestimated. I suppose I have been pretty open about using donor eggs (as all our friends knew about failed IVF cycles, as they happily popped out 3 kids each in the time we've been trying) so can't really not tell any child now.  I have been surprised however, how many people have friends & family stories of donor eggs, if not themselves - the first one was my mother! (A friend's son & wife had used DE!)  So suddenly it didn't seem impossible that she would get her head around the idea for us.  Also with close friends and family, they might feel hurt that they weren't "trusted with the secret" if it gets out later - although I appreciate that's their issue rather than yours, but it would be unfortunate to upset otherwise good relationships. 

You've still got plenty of time to practice what you'd say to your little one, I plan to read the storybook from birth pretty much & practice the words for as long as possible, before our little one (if we're lucky enough to have one) does understand.  I believe children are very resilient and when they are little have very different views of normal - some live with mum & dad, some just mum, some two mums, some two dads etc - this is just "their family" as far as they are concerned. I'm far more interested in raising happy, confident children who take no notice of small minded bullies & I think that includes being confident about their background. They don't know about emotional baggage - infertility or not - and the more I hear stories about kids who know about being donor conceived when they are young the more they don't seem to care - I've heard a couple of stories where mum has been told to "stop banging on about it".  

I don't think genetics is everything, whilst it is of course part of making babies - and we were delighted with the egg donor match we were offered & we hope to meet her one day if our child wants to. However, I love my husband to bits and he loves me, but that's nothing to do with genetics, it's relationships and values that we share and will hopefully pass on to our children. 

Try not to stress about where your child was conceived, there's nothing you can do to change that now, but she's still a special lady who gave her eggs so that "mummy & daddy could make you".  I'd just urge you to investigate all the options for support out there. Not that you don't have a good couple of years to make a plan, but I've met one parent and heard a few stories of parents wanting to "wait until the child is old enough to understand", which can be pretty hard to decide on when that actually is and then they've been panicked about leaving it too late to tell children. There's all the stuff about child development at about 7 when they start processing things for themselves & before that they are just pretty much repeating parrot fashion, but they can still start getting used to the words before then. 

Sorry I have rambled on far more than I ever intended in this thread, but as you seem pretty undecided, I just wanted to encourage you to look at all the options. As the not telling might seem easier, as you just don't say anything, but I think it could put a lot more pressure on you in the long run. 

Heartfelt apologies to anyone I've offended, but just some of my opinions, sorry. 

Lots of luck Twickham with your journey and whatever you decide. 
Canuck xx


----------



## bombsh3ll

Hi Twinkle Toes & congratulations on your pregnancy!!

It's a very personal decision & I would not judge anyone else's choice, but as someone who has chosen not to tell anyone including my daughter that I had DE I find the amount of pressure from organisations like the DCN and online resources on donor conception to tell the child quite concerning. 

Telling is very much presented as being the "right" thing to do. Why? There are numerous accounts of people finding out later in life that they were donor conceived and being upset, however as with any situation it is generally those whose experience is negative or who feel particularly aggrieved who speak out on these forums. Where the person has found out later in life it is often in an unplanned way, perhaps during illness or something being blurted out in an argument, which is not typical of most people's experiences.

The argument is and will always be a very unilateral one, simply because the donor conceived people out there who do not know, and there are probably far, far more than anyone would imagine, are happily living their lives and not visiting websites or connecting with organisations focused on donor conception.

In reality once you are on the plane home, at no further point does it matter where those cells came from & there is no UK record at all about the type of treatment you have had. Your baby's blood group will be consistent with either your own or your husband's, & outside of films & soaps the possibility of them or anybody else "finding out" unless you choose to tell them is minuscule in reality. 

So many people seem to overthink & agonise over having donor treatment, & I suppose I am lucky that I wasn't bothered about DNA when it obviously does bother some people so much, but you honestly forget about it once you are occupied with being pregnant & looking after a baby, & it really is such a small thing compared with having a child.

Most people who have not encountered fertility problems have very little knowledge about donor conception, most do not even know what IVF involves, & it would only really cross the mind of someone particularly well informed who may look at your age and treatment abroad and make the connection, but many people freeze eggs/embryos and this scenario is equally plausible. I was 32 so nobody even questioned that I may not have used my own eggs.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I would not want to put anybody off telling their child if they felt it was right for them and their family circumstances, but just wanted to share my experiences to show that it is a choice at the end of the day & there is not one right or wrong route that applies universally.

B xxx


----------



## Jz5000

B - well said. I don't really log on much anymore. I'm 27 weeks pg with DE. We still plan on not telling. I think many of us that plan on not telling don't share as much. Just wanted to thank you for sharing!
Jz.  Xxx


----------



## Kitkat496

I do agree that there is a lot of pressure from various sources to tell but everyone has to make up their own mind. My only concern is the advancement of genetic testing - if it were to become routine then it would be easier for the child to find out and that would surely be a shock. Although nobody could force you, the mother, to get tested or share the results so there is always that. As to the honestly part....I am grappling with that....but it is also estimated that about 10% of children (in the US) are raised by a father who is not their genetic father, without the father or the child knowing this. Presumably this issue has always existed, even in the pre-IVF days.


----------



## Me Myself and I

Hi all.
I was so sure on my intended path and am now more confused than the start of this process! 
Being single I went down the DS route. Rightly or wrongly it was anonymous -partly my naive preference at the time and partly due to lack of nonanonymous donors matching my requirements. This obviously means that there is no chance in my baby meeting thier paternal side when older and I have only fairly basic info.
This was fine.... thought would cross the next bridge when it came.....


----------



## Me Myself and I

I would be happier not telling, for me, but that means total lies which has to be wrong coming from Mummy surely! But what to say if don,t tell truth?


----------



## Moragob

Me, Myself and I

It's just so tough, I was determined to not tell but my OH told his parents and so I will now tell as I think once one person is told it is no longer in my control.  It is nobodies business but ours.  We too used an anonymous donor which I am very happy with so there is no way for my daughter to find out more but it worries me now that she will get such limited info, hence my original decision not to tell.  All I know is that she could not be loved more than she is by me, my OH or the direct members of our families who now know and that surely counts for a lot.

Wishing you all the best and I'm sure everyone on here understands the differing pressures and opinions we face, but I truly think that the love we give outweighs everything,  it seems that the children who find out somehow later in life often come from families with problems not related to fertility.

Morag

PS Edited the following day - What I meant to say was that the children who have difficulties / issues / problems when they find out later in life often have other problems which colour the whole dilemma.  It's just hard to know what to do


----------



## daisyg

Hello,

I do sympathise with you, me, myself and I.  I am a solo mum to donor embryo twins conceived in Spain who are now 7 years old.  I too have no information to give them and they will never know who the donors are.  However,  I have told them since they were born and continue to tell them as I feel it is the right choice for me and them, despite no information.

I wondered if you used donor sperm from the UK as your child will have the right to find out more about the donor and identifying info. at 18? Even if you used anonymous sperm abroad, there are others like you who have told or are planning to tell their children.  IMHO telling is not a single event and people do change their feelings when children are born or as they get older.  It is never too late to change your mind if you do feel that is right and want to investigate further.

I have found the support from the Donor Conception Network and meeting other solo mums invaluable and that is something to consider if you wish.  They also produce booklets to help tell your child and to help you find the words too.

I personally feel that donor conception is different from the scenario where a woman has had an affair and not revealed it.  We make a conscious and hopefully positive choice to use donor gametes whether we are in the no tell or tell camp!  It is also true that those who find out later may also have other family issues influencing their negative feelings, but I hope that telling my children early and often has helped to prevent any shock revelation.  That is not to say that telling is easy, because it sometimes isn't and I personally sometimes find it hard and challenging (but worth it I hope!).

I know I am encroaching on the no tell thread and hope this post is received in the spirit of support and debate!

Best of luck,

Daisy
xxxx


----------



## Me Myself and I

Thank you Daisy.

There is no tracing the donor as was abroad.

I suppose I worry for me - what effects telling/not telling will have on my child.
I worry if I tell them, that they will in advertently tell all to their friends at schools etc - and we live in such a close knit small areas this could be devastating - perosnally for me/family but alo the child when they perhaps may wish they hadn't revealed to all and subdry and cannot take it back. Let alone the potential impact for bullying etc as a result - children use any info against one another...

But I also do not wish to lie....


----------



## Twinkle Toes 14

Hi
Thanks do much for sharing your thoughts. 
I think not telling is a valid option but there is so little support out there.
I think its wrong for any option to be presented as universally right...as I think "telling" is. I feel guilty anda bad person for even considering it. Not telling must happen a lot but is unseen.
X


----------



## Maria00

Hello everyone, can I join you all? My husband and I are considering using donor sperm and "maybe" donor egg (our clinic sometimes does a OE/DE tandem cycle) for our next cycle. While I'd like to tell my kids (if we'll have any) about the donor(s), I don't think I will because where we come from (we are not from the UK) using donors is banned by law and no one in our religious family would understand our decision (IVF is already cosidered a "mortal sin").   I was wondering... how do you manage to keep it a secret? Do you ask your GP or midwife not to write about it in your papers? Is it possible? Or you just kept it a secret from them too?
Any tips/suggestions are much appreciated.
... and in the meanwhile I'll try to read all your previous posts.


----------



## bombsh3ll

Hi Maria00,

I didn't want any record existing in the UK that I had had DE so just told midwives it was an IVF pregancy & nothing else. To be honest they seemed to have very little knowledge regarding IVF or even what ICSI was nor how to calculate my due date & nobody ever asked whether it had been my own eggs or not.

Good luck with your treatment,

B xxx


----------



## Kitkat496

My current doctors also don't know, not even about the IVF part. I worked with a fertility specialist in my country to get ready for the transfer but after I got my BFP she released me to a regular doctor who assumed it was not IVF...


----------



## Maria00

Bombsh3ll, congrats for your daughter!
And Kitkat496, Congratulations on your pregnancy!
Thank you  both so much for your replies. 
What did you do re the Fetal Anomaly Scan then? Did you just have it privately? Sorry for all my dumb questions, but I still don't know exactly how the NHS works after 3 years in Scotland and my GP is never ever of any help.   He knows I had 2 OE cycles, but he keeps saying that at 39 and I too old to TTC.


----------



## Mrsctobe

Hi all 
Can I join your thread? I have just had a faint bfp on Tuesday and less faint bfp today so cautiously happy! Now I'm worried about the next step, telling my GP to get booked in, my OH and I decided right from the beginning that we tell no one and I mean no one about DE, but Im  cringing a bit at the thought of sitting there saying it's natural pregnancy as I am 49, I just don't think they will believe me. The last thing we want is it written on my notes for everyone to see, I know lots of Drs and friends who are GP,s but once i say it and it's written down it's there forever. And to complicate things I need to discuss being prescribed prednisolone for first trimester, how do I  get round that without giving ivf treatment away!! Any ideas from you lovely ladies?
Mrs c xxxx


----------



## Maria00

Mrsctobe, congrats! You could ask your clinic to prescribe prednisolone for you. It's quite cheap.


----------



## Mrsctobe

Hi maria 
My clinic only wanted me to take 2.5mg but when I could feel immune flare up coming on I upped it to 10 and then again to 15, they told me not to do this but i did anyway and I'm convinced that's why I have the bfp, they want me to stop the 2.5 as soon as I get bfp so I don't think they will prescribe me it even though i would happily  pay but I'm so worried to stop in case immune flare happens again, it's my own fault for self medicating but I know I did the right thing! What a tangled web I've weaved! May just tell GP that I had private testing done and was advised to take it as I had immune issues which is sort of true?! Thanks for congrats and reply xxxx


----------



## Maria00

Mrsctobe, it might be worth asking anyway? For my experience GPs very rarely accept to prescribe prednisolone even if you got a BFP and your IVF clinic wants you to take it.   BUT you know your GP better than me, so I hope he/she will be helpful. GL!


----------



## Mrsctobe

Thanks Maria

Just noticed your question, what I think happens is you have to register pregnancy with GP who then pass you to midwife for ante natal care, included in this care are 2 scan one at 12 weeks and one at 20 weeks and should be regular monitoring also with midwife. Until delivery.  But there are so many private companies now that do private ultrasounds you can have them when you want really if you don't mind paying, I haven't seen one that does them before 7 weeks though. And 39 is very young! Don't ket that stupid GP tell you otherwise, I'm 10 years older than you and my youngest was born when I was nearly 39. Good luck to you too
Mrs c xxx


----------



## Kitkat496

Anomaly scan: I just gave my age which is 6 years older than the donor making their estimates more conservative.....if you were to get borderline results then you would have to personally take into account that the risk is actually lower than predicted... Or to more tests...

Drugs: I needed the usual stuff... Progesterone etc so I had to tell the private doctor and yes that is written in her records but the hospital and the doctor who will deliver me does not have access to those (and has little reason to suspect anything). It's not as clean as I would like I it to be but best I could come up with


----------



## Maria00

Kitkat496, thanks. I've called a couple of private clinics asking for anomaly scan, and they all want a referral letter from my GP.   I just don't get why.


----------



## Kitkat496

The anomaly scan at 12 weeks does not need to be private....you just need a private doc to give you the meds you need before/in parallel. It's stupidly complicated but such is life.


----------



## suitcase of dreams

Maria - not sure where you are but The Birth Company in Harley St (and many similar London private ultrasound clinics) will scan you with no GP referral
best of luck,
Suitcase
x


----------



## Moragob

Hi

I have a 13 month old DEIVF daughter and was unsure whether or not I would tell but will know do so as my husband told his family.  I just really want to reassure you regarding talking to midwives and GPs etc.  I was 46 when my daughter was born and even though my notes say DEIVF and my health visitor and various other medical people have been told it is DEIVF they NEVER EVER remember that and just assume it was a natural or OEIVF so my feeling is that no-one will even begin to question you.  So please don't worry about this - my experience is that people just take you at face value, if you are pregnant it will be assumed it is a natural pregnancy and those who know it possibly isn't then they will assume that it is be OE IVF.  And you will be surprised at how many people tell you that have had IVF treatment if they assume this.

Those of us using this site go through so much to even get pregnant and then we worry about so so much when we are pregnant - in the 9 years we were trying I had 5 m/c and finally a successful pregnancy and a wonderful 13 months of being a mother so please, please just try and enjoy every moment.  Most people just accept the obvious and don't even begin to question it.  

I wish you all the very best of luck and happiness

Morag


----------



## Mrsctobe

Morag what a lovely post, you are so right and have put thing in perspective, it is so silly to Worry when it has been a journey to even get a bfp! Enjoy your 13 month old
Mrs c xxx


----------



## MsPeaches

Hello all, just a note to Mrsctobe regarding prednisolone - you need to step down gently not just stop it cold - be good to get advice from your clinic re this.  I also had relatively high dose and am sure it helped.

Re the not telling - my twins are now six months and it is interesting the curiosity people have - they all assume a one night stand in Spain, all I say is that I had an experience there and was very lucky.  I live in a very gossipy community and after telling about IVF attempts some years ago, where I found myself to be greatly judged from really unexpected quarters, I vowed that I would not spread the news so widely this time - for my child/children's sakes.  I feel the knowledge is private and theirs to know first and not for the world, and the school yard, to comment.  Too  many people have an opinion - yet we never launch into a thousand questions when a "conventional" couple become pregnant, as to their sexual practices and fertility!

My little ones are now over six months, and I have told a handful of close friends.  I am in the kind of tell / don't tell camp, in that I want to share the information in a limited way.  I am not sure yet how this will be possible, given the changes in social media, communication and also science / DNA testing, but from where I stand, it is very private information and not to be talked about all over town.  I have no desire to be the poster girl for double donor conception, and do not feel it is fair on my boys.  However, I am also aware that the world will change in the next 5/10/15 years so... for me it is how to keep the information private, share it with my boys, or not to share it with my boys.  I believe that not telling is a viable option, but I want to be prepared.

Hopefully no input from those in the telling camp - read the notes at the beginning of this thread...

All the best to everyone else, I have been absent from FF for quite some time - they don't call it the baby bubble for nothing!  Cheers all, MsP


----------



## suitcase of dreams

used The Birth Company several times, including 7 and 10 week scans although not 12 week
would recommend   
good luck!
Suitcase
x


----------



## DarlingGirl

Mary, I had my NHS scan, just didn't have the bloods to check for downs etc. 

I had the Harmony test instead in a private clinic - costs about £400 including a scan and you can have it from 10 weeks. Nothing then in NHS notes about DEIVF.

There is also the NIFTY test, as well as the HARMONY. Have a google. 

xxxx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

ive been to the birth company and had scans wih Dr Gibbs there for pre pregnancy lining etc. £70 a scan - I think more for your first one. They can also do bloods. have you thought of having private care as then your records will not marry up with any NHS records with
out your consent.


----------



## DarlingGirl

MaryMary123 said:


> Thanks Darlinggirl, that's an idea. Were you questioned about not having the bloods done on the NHS??


Nope, I just told them I'd had the harmony test instead as I thought I'd come back high risk due to my age and didn't want it to cause me undue worry.

No one questioned it. Many women refuse it anyway, so I'm sure they are used to it.

xxxx


----------



## Twinkle Toes 14

Hi
My GP is aware that I did IVF but not DE, as we did the procedure in the Czech Republic. We haven't decided if we are going to tell anyone yet, including our future child about using donor eggs. So just want to keep this information between DH and myself.
We refused the combined nuchal scan at GP/ hospital and did a Harmony test privately at The Birth Centre on Harley St. No Dr referral was required. The Harmony Test gives you over 99% certainty on the result, so enough to give peace of mind, far more so than the combined nuchal test. The test also gives you gender ...if you want to know.
We then told the GP and hospital that we'd done the test privately and it had been negative, so they wouldnt consider us being still high risk (as im 44). 
The test cost £600 at The Birth Centre and I was very happy with the service.  The service is purely between you and them. 
I'm 22 weeks pregnant, overjoyed nd feel already bonded toour baby as i feel his first movements ...I can't imagine that shared DNA would make me feel more so. 
I'm a little on earned about whether the baby I'll look enough like me ... To avoid suspicion ...but think that's my paranoia. I know loads of children that dont look that similar to their parents ...and I've never questioned heir genetics! 
I went on holiday last year with my DH nd his little girl from first marriage ... On two separate occasions we were told how similar me and his little girl looked ...assuming me to be her mom. I don't think his daughter looks particularly  like me ...but it just shows how people look for similarities rather than differences! x


----------



## Moragob

Hi Twinkletoes

I have a 15 month DEIVF little girl and I too worried about whether she would look like me but as you said everyone looks for what they want to see so are looking for similarities.  She is 100% my daughter and is just beautiful.  I do however still feel slightly uncomfortable when people tell me she looks like me or has my eyes or something else,  I have coped with it by saying something vague such as yes we have the same colouring as this is true.  I hadn't really though about how I would respond to these comments before she was born so felt really thrown when it was first said.  

I don't believe that I could love her any more or feel any differently if she was genetically connected to me, it is just so wonderful that I am finally a mother and she is our delightful little girl.

I hope you enjoy the rest of your pregnancy and motherhood - it is such a joyous adventure.

Morag


----------



## Twinkle Toes 14

Thanks Morag. 
I don't see DNA as that important. I am very unlike my parents despite the genetic link. I also think that there is one influence from the carrying mother ...epigenetics is still being explored. Also, the Harmony test I did used foetal DNA that had passed across the placenta into my blood. 
I also think how you are as a person and your mannerism etc are going to be massively influenced by your parents, genetic or otherwise. 
I've come to terms with using donor eggs ...we just need to work through whether to tell our child. I think i will wait to meet and get to know our child ...see his personality and judge what is the best for him. 
X


----------



## Dramaqueen88

Hi,

I was looking for some advice re midwife appointment. 

Obviously my clinic and everyone associated with my care there knows that we used DS to conceive, however my midwife will be unaware. I have my first appointment next week and wondered what I should say? I know they will want to take. Both parents medical history, what do I say here? 

I am a bit apprehensive as I know (vaguely) someone who works at my hospitals maternity dept, and although I know she can't tell anyone I'm not comfortable with her having this knowledge when we haven't told others yet.

Any advice is appreciated 

X


----------



## Me Myself and I

I said nothing tbh. Just filled out what I knew re health and blood group. 

Let them assume was in my case a relationship gone wrong..... Social worker was far nosier.in your case let them assume baby is oh's - just give information relating to donor as though its oh.

Congrats.


----------



## Blondie71

Me Myself & I sorry just being nosy why does a social worker have to be involved?? Is it due to being single? I have twins and never had one near me


----------



## Me Myself and I

Sorry meant health visitor. Must have been in work mode typing sw.

Never had ss involvement for me and lo!

A real faux pas.


----------



## Dramaqueen88

Thanks! I just worry about her asking my DP directly, I know he will feel awkward bless him.


----------



## Blondie71

Hahaha I understand it's baby brain, yeah I have had a very nosy (stand-in for my regular) HV once that really pushed me with questions over the dad and did I think it was right to deny them a father etc etc it was very awkward and upsetting as she was relentless, I ordered her out in the end and phoned my HV and said never send that *****  to me again! My HV is so cool and respectful of my situation luckily


----------



## Apple Orchard

I hope you don't mind me jumping aboard this thread - it's been very quiet in the last few months. 

Here goes - 

We are SO lucky to be (hopefully) having a DE baby in a few months ... especially as we never thought it would happen. 

We are delighted and don't have a problem with him / her being DE. We just feel very blessed to be where we are. 

We are on the fence as to whether or not to tell him / her, although after spending much of the afternoon reading back from the beginning, I'm now more inclined not to tell. Before reading I was thinking we should tell. My DH does not want to tell, but would go along with what I would like if I feel very strongly. 

The reasons for not telling are because we already have an OE child and also we are very private people. To add to that, my DH has two children from a previous marriage and we most certainly wouldn't want them to know. Nor indeed the rest of his family. They do not like me very much (including his children), and don't really accept us as being a couple / married. 

Another reason for not telling is that we do not want our DE child to feel ANY different to our OE child. I feel exactly the same in pregnancy this time as I did last time. We are overjoyed and pray that all goes well until the end. I feel as bonded as it's possible to feel at this stage. We already love him / her.

However, we do not want either child (OE or DE) to find out later in life and then feel bitterly deceived and lied to. Our only concern re not telling would be genetic advances in medicine which would make it inevitable that s/he would find out. Sadly, there is no way anyone can predict what will happen in the future. And is it worth the risk?

I don't know whether or not I have the same blood group as the donor because it was never checked. 

We have told only one of my parents about the DE, so we know there isn't anyone who could blurt it out accidentally. We have not told the hospital, only the GP, who has forgotten! It was not written down in my notes. The donor has no medical conditions, and neither do any of her family. 

If we did decide to tell, we would only want to tell the child, and no one else. We would have to tell our OE child, but they would not be able to keep it a secret. At five, how could they?! It's all rather complicated. 

At the end of the day we just want to do what's best for both of our children, and for us as a family group. 

I've been a bit rambling and this has turned out to be much longer than I thought it would be, so thank you very much for reading! Your help / thoughts / advice / words of experience or wisdom would be so much appreciated. 

I'm very grateful there is somewhere like this where you can say you don't want to tell - and there are other people who feel the same. There is nothing out there that supports the 'no' people. 

AO


----------



## Twinkle Toes 14

Hi, 
We have our gorgeous little boy now. He is just 7 weeks old  And I love him to bits. Having carried and given birth to him, fears of feeling unconnected due to genetics seems absurd to me now. 
I struggle about whether to tell him. I've decided to wait til he's older and make a decision then, when I know him as a person and how well he will deal with this or otherwise. 
I know a lot of the tell advocates say tell the child young, so it won't be a shock later, but I don't want to take the risk of doing this at an early age. I worry about him having difficulty dealing with this later on and not being able to take back the knowledge. Also, I worry about how family members will treat him, I want him to be fully accepted as part of the family. 
It's all about him for me. 
Im not concerned about him rejecting me, I know there is and will always be a bond. The family members who are precious to me, are so love and shared memories no genetics. 
I know some may disagree with my point of view, but he's our little boy and we'll always act with his best interests at heart, rather than public opinion.
It's not more complicated, as only myself and OH know, the dr and hospital has not been informed, we know it isn't on his records. 
My opinion may change as time goes by. I don't like the idea of not telling him but it may be the lesser evil if I think the truth will hurt him. 
X


----------



## askingtheangels

Hello Apple Orchard and Twinkle Toes - I had to get in touch as I could've written your post word for word myself Apple Orchard!! I've been keeping an eye on this board for ages, but it's so quiet. You really do feel in the minority as a potential 'no tell'. So thank you for posting and being so candid.

I too have a 5 year old and I'm about to have a DE transfer next week! So we're really in the same boat! I know I won't feel any different about a DE pregnancy in comparison to my OE one. I already think of our little embies as just ours and no one else's and I'm at peace with our move to DE. I'm just praying for a happy and healthy pregnancy and can't wait to welcome the second child we've so desperately been trying for. It's wonderful to hear Twinkle Toes that the genetics of that one cell means little in the end - apart from the huge gratitude to the donor who gives you the chance.

But myself and DH go round in circles a bit about disclosure. We started from a definite standpoint of not to tell when we first started on this journey. But then I had some counselling and I came round to the idea of telling and have mostly persuaded DH but we still have one foot planted in the not tell camp so we're a bit on the fence in truth.

Our reasons for not telling and telling are exactly as you've said AO. I don't want either of the two children to feel in any way different, I can't bear the thought of our DE child being treated differently by anyone or for anyone to judge us for what we've done. As you've both said, it comes purely from a point of trying to protect the child - it's not really anything to do with us.

But equally, I too worry about the advances in genetics and medicine and the fear of it having to come out at some point later in life really worries me. I'm just not sure I can live that. I'm quite an open person in many respects and had come round to the thinking that as long as we normalise it and tell from an early age then it will just be a part of who they are. And hopefully the love and nurture that we will pour on our child, just as our OE child, will overcome any wobbles or stormy times the child may have. I agree Twinkle Toes, that ultimately the child and we will be bonded irrefutably.

We've decided for the moment to just concentrate on getting pregnant! We're going to take each stage at a time and won't be telling anyone about DE, if at all, until after 12 weeks, and it won't go on any hospital notes etc. It's sure to be a conversation we'll continue to have! But it really is helpful to get other viewpoints here. xxx


----------



## daisyg

Dear Apple Orchard,

I have sent you a PM.

Daisy xxx


----------



## Blondie71

It's so interesting to see different points of view and reasons for telling/not telling, in my own situation it's obvious I've used DS to those that know me, as far as the boys they will know everything from as young as possible. 

Edited: PM sent. Lilly


----------



## bombsh3ll

Ella2012,

I've sent you a pm.

B xxx


----------



## Lilly83

Hi Ladies

There's been a few instances recently where those who feel telling the child should be the preferred option have used this thread to dispute or question others choices (of those who choose not to tell) whilst you are all free to ask questions and read both threads regardless of your decision can we please respect the fact that the posters on each thread have likely already made their decisions and we have to support it and out of respect I ask that any posts that may be deemed insensitive are kept on boards where they belong

I will edit/remove those I feel don't support the threads in which they are posted, please think carefully before you post and respect others choices, should anyone still be making their mind up they will no doubt read through both threads

Link to the telling thread...
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=248489.0

Any questions let me know

L x


----------



## K jade

Thank u LILLY well said   just  like to say I really support people on this thread and think that the way u raise YOUR child and what u choose or don't choose to tell your child is 100%  the choice of the parents. 
Xxx


----------



## Lilly83

Ok after having another read through I have decided not to edit the posts but I have split them into a seperate thread, I understand its a subject that may interest others so feel free to discuss on that thread then others can choose if they want to read it

Hope everyone agrees that's the wisest move? 

L x


----------



## Lilly83

I agree Ella the counsellors we saw were very pro telling (I had a failed donor cycle recently and I'm planning another after Xmas) 

We have planned if we are lucky to enough to tell, although when we first started entertaining the option of donor DP was shocked I suggested I would be open, we went to a DC seminar put on by our nhs clinic and they offered up two couples to share experiences and both told, 1 was unknown sperm 1 known egg so I agree it seems every where you turn there's encouragement to tell

I think its a very brave decision to choose donor and I completely respect either decision, and I too had a rocky upbringing with things not being clear as I was growing up but that doesn't affect my decision in anyway x


----------



## K jade

I have accessed some information from organisations out there and didn't find it reassuring.
Certain communities and cultures face real stigmatisation from infertility, couples from these communities may simply not be in a position to be open about doners, it would completely ostracise them , it made me think where's the support for them? 
Secondly what about the parents right to privacy??  I must admit I was a little shocked at the idea that a parent of a DC child needs to tell that child's school   . I couldn't thathom that at all.  
Many parents may simply come to the decision that for very good reasons it is simply not in their child's best interests to know that information. I just really strongly feel that the choices and rights of these parents should be upheld. 
After all, you are the parent 
Xxxxx


----------



## Lilly83

If anyone has found a clinic particularly supportive to not telling or had counselling that was pro 'not telling' or even read any articles or books that may be of use to others it would be nice to share on here, as I imagine there is much less advice out there for that side x


----------



## aussiebub

Hi ladies,
Just thought I would pop on to say a lot of the European clinics the donors are anonymous and whether you tell or not would be entirely your decision although the child would not be able to trace the donor as this is protected by law in fact. Embryoland in Greece is a great little clinic. I am pregnant with DE/DS from this clinic. Best of luck to all. It is such a complex issue and I have not reached a decision yet but fortunately I have not documented the donor element anywhere and clinic cant and wont say anything so feel a bit relaxed about not being pressured into the decision one way or the other. Best of luck on your journeys


----------



## bombsh3ll

Hi ladies,

I agree with Aussiebub, the culture abroad seems to be different with regard to telling the child (or anybody else) or not.

I cycled in Spain where donation is anonymous and every effort was made by the clinic to ensure plausible characteristics including blood group in the child, and the default assumption seemed to be towards the preservation of privacy unless the individual themselves chose to disclose the use of donor eggs/sperm to the child. 

I think the choice not to tell simply doesn't exist in the UK due to all donation being non-anonymous & records being kept, info passed to the HFEA etc, so anyone wishing to have the option of keeping their donor treatment private really has to go outside the UK.

Also totally agree with the point about the pro-telling community, and also donor conceived children who have "found out" accidentally and been upset, being a very vocal presence- the reality is many other families living quietly and happily out there, and the adult/older children who do not know they were donor conceived are of course not on forums to do with donation.

B xxx


----------



## K jade

Thank u bombshell. I totally agree with you. I am absolutely not against people who tell I think it's great, can defiantly see the benefits of it. But.... There's also benefits of not telling. Plus for all certain organisations try to push that there is 'evidence' for telling being best, this is simply not true. Those who don't know will never be able to partake in evidence to prove the contrary. So there will simply be no way of ever proving 'telling is best' 

I have agree with the point being made about huge numbers of women who have children and stepfather taking on the role of biological father and this being no big deal. This is completely acceptable in society. And so it should be. I've no problem with it. But so in that case should be the choice of women who use donors. 

I did recently read something on a guy who found out his dad wasn't his bio father in his 30's , and he didn't find out accidentally either his mother told him. All it made him realise was what an amazing man his dad was even more for being his dad despite not sharing a DNA strand. It didn't damage him or ruin his life. He said he felt like the luckiest guy in the world for having his dad. I think there stories also need to be take into account when considering the 'evidence ' too. 

Xxxx


----------



## Moragob

Hi

I think you should do what is right for you, your family and your situation, nobody else is in exactly the same situation as you - we are all unique with different sets of pressures.

I, too feel there is a lot of pressure to tell and not much empathy about for those who decide not to.  I was in the not tell camp but my husband felt differently and told his family so I am now telling but I do not see why I should tell her nursery or school that she is DE conceived.  It is none of their business as far as I am concerned.

Surely being loving, caring parents is the most important thing, I'm sure the issues that arise for some people are probably based around a lack of love and/or security.

Morag


----------



## hogmeister

I don't often look on this thread as I have found in the past people from the pro telling camp have been on it. We have no intention of telling, the thought isn't even on my radar. My sister has 2 teenaged children from DS as her husband was infertile following a brain tumour and they don't know nor will ever know. As someone commented earlier, a lot of people with donor conceived children are just living happily ever after.


----------



## bombsh3ll

It never crossed our minds to tell anyone either, I saw no reason to. I feel lucky to have been able to go abroad for treatment though with complete anonymity, & no mandatory sessions with a pro-telling counsellor. It always makes me smile now seeing the flights coming back from Spain & other countries thinking of all the tiny precious extra passengers they must have carried back without anyone ever knowing


----------



## Lorsha

Me and my husband have told no one our pregnancy was a result of donor egg, we have no intention of telling the child they have enough pressures growing up without the extra knowledge that they aren't genetically connected to their mum. We have a friend in same boat who is definately for telling the child as she said they couldn't live with the lie. But we know not telling is right for us.


----------



## K jade

Do any of you ladies know what Czech republics policy is on how many children1 doner can produce? Reason being is we are considering DS and need to go abroad as from wat I can see UK legislation means we are deprived of the choice to tell or not tell. 
But I don't want masses of potential half siblings either.
Anyone know of countries where number is limited? 
Thanks for providing a supportive thread for such a sensitive issue.  
xxxx


----------



## K jade

Hogmeister thanks for sharing.  
Dare I say that I suspect  your nephews/nieces are lovely well adjusted kids safe in the knowledge they have a REAL mum and dad who love them very much ?
Just a stab in the dark  
xxx


----------



## Lilly83

I think it's a very brave decision either way, personally for us we will tell (that's if I get more than one embie from my donor next time) but it's nothing to do with thinking it's bad to keep it from the child, I guess telling just came naturally and even if we did change our mind I have been too open now to back track as too many people know 

DPs immediate reaction was to not tell he presumed no one told and was actually shocked when we discussed it, guess that's blokes for you x


----------



## bombsh3ll

K jade,

I would suggest emailing a couple of the clinics you are interested in. As well as serial sperm "donors", any clinic which offers sperm freezing to patients will end up with surplus straws of frozen sperm from men who have no intention of producing in any more clinic rooms. Some patients having completed their journey are happy to donate unused sperm to help others.

We had three straws left at our clinic which we offered for donation - the quality of it was not good enough for donation as my partner had poor morphology, but I am sure there are many more in a similar position. It seemed senseless to destroy it if it could bring such joy to someone else, particularly as I had received DE.

Good luck with your treatment,

B xxx


----------



## K jade

Taliya I look nothing like my parents . They are fair and I came out strangely Mediterranean looking! I have also been asked if I'm turkish 
According to them the only foreign genes we have in our ancestors r Scandinavian .....??
Wud I b surprised to to learn I was a doner baby. No. Would I be surprised to learn I was adopted. Haha it would explain alot!!
Would I traumatise me and make me reject my parents. Absolutely not. Would I feel deceived. NO. they are my parents and they did the best Job they knew how to do. Which at times was very very far from perfect. 

Lilly I wish u all the best of luck for your next cycle  
xxx


----------



## Lilly83

So glad to hear it's helped you Taliya, I completely agree on the points you made

Thanks K, luckily the clinic are getting us an exclusive donor this time after the shared one gave us 1 (she was altruistic) 

Also interestingly my dad brought me up with me thinking he was my bio dad, I found out when I was about 8 that he wasn't, my mum had buried her head I think and not dealt with it when she should of, it was a perfect example of how not to manage a situ like that but honestly I have turned out just fine with no issues due to it, my bio dad was an a**e and I had no wish to have anything to do with him and never viewed my dad any different, He is an amazing man who took my mum on with 2 kids and was never blessed with his own bio children xx


----------



## K jade

Bombshell thank you! 
Yes I would be concerned about a serial doner! Would prefer a slightly more exclusive service if I'm honest  
My concern first and foremost would b the protection of my child. And if we choose not to tell I don't want lots of potential half sibs out there , makes me a but uneasy
Xxxxx


----------



## TAliyA

Bless you Lilly, what a lovely response, thank you and your Dad sounds like a wonderful man, he is the man that raised you and what a fantastic job he did


----------



## Lilly83

Hi Ellaa

We are in the process of arranging just that, I asked for it but it will take a week or so to sort so bare with me 

Thank you all for your patience  

L xx


----------



## Mel

Dear Members

It has come to our attention that unwanted interference has occurred on this thread from those who do not think it is ok to 'NOT TELL THE CHILD'.

This thread is for those who feel that they do not want to tell their donor conceived children how they were conceived, this decision should be respected.

We are currently considering a private area for members of this particular thread so that they can post without being reprimanded by other organisations.

Regards

Mel


----------



## Mrs G 0207

My DH has azoospermia caused by missing vas deferens.  We have no idea if he has sperm as not had ssr yet. but feel fine at the possibility of DS. However we will not be telling the child nor any1 else for that matter. The child will be ours, no1 need know how it was made after all you wouldn't ask someone who gets pregnant naturally so was it a donor then. No one could convince me 'telling is the right thing' because for us it isn't.  I don't judge people who do tell. Its a very personal thing.


----------



## LuckyE

Having read the thread, I think a private area is a very good idea. xx


----------



## Apple Orchard

I'm delighted to see there will be somewhere private to go. Undecided or no means just that. I agree with so many that it's not up to the yes people to come on this thread to try and persuade us to do something different. Each person/couple should be free to make up their own mind without any pressure. 
I also got a PM from a yes person. I actually felt really upset by it. Please yes people, respect other people's point of view and decisions. It may not be your way of doing things, but everyone has the right to do what they feel is best for their child/ren and their families as a whole. 
Rant over! I'm sorry if it comes over as a bit too strong ...
Thank you for making a private area. 
AO


----------



## LuckyE

TBH, I was afraid to post, Ella and I started by sending you a private post but then I thought that's almost like being bullied. And I didn't want to feel like that. So I posted!  

Anyway, I am looking forward to the private place. It's sad because it's like not tellers have been driven underground.


----------



## Lilly83

I'm really sorry anyone's been made to feel like that I really am, it's only been brought to my attention recently as I only took the donor boards over a few months ago, we have just spent some time figuring out what to do and the logistics 

Do always speak up if something or someone's bothering you, we always welcome feedback and suggestions and would also treat things in confidence if you wished to discuss any issues via pm 

I'm hoping you will all still post on the open donor forum as I know many of you have offered great support and advice to others and we want to continue having the other well established donor boards too but are hoping we can make those not feeling comfortable posting feel like they can much more freely

Mel will update when we know more im sure 

L xx


----------



## Jo3

Hi ladies... Still lurking but not posting too. How will we know about and join the private thread?

xx


----------



## Lilly83

Hello

We are considering how best to do this but it will most likely be by request, we will have the fact the board exists well promoted and should anyone want to join they have to request first

They are working on how best to do it at the moment, soon as I know more I will let you know 

L x


----------



## bombsh3ll

Great idea to have somewhere private for non-disclosing and undecided people to chat without judgement or pressure from those who do not share our views. 

I am completely secure and happy in my decision regarding my daughter, now nearly 2, & will pop in on the private thread in case I can be of help to anyone seeking information or support regarding keeping donor treatment private.

Best wishes,

B xxx


----------



## Anthony Reid

Hello Everyone,

My concern about what has happened here - is that members have withdrawn from supporting each other, as they feel they are being harassed. Choosing to tell or not is a difficult decision and you shouldn't be alone in making that decision.

What I intend to do is build a a better resource targeted towards donor conception. In my view everyone should be able to make informed decisions, without being pushed into a corner. Hopefully we can achieve that.

The private area that we are creating will be just the first step in improving the DC side of the site.

Best,
Tony

PS. for the record - I'm actually all for telling, but I would never force my views on anyone in the way that they do.


----------



## TAliyA

Oh good I look forward to this!

I too have deleted my comments in the past which I now regret as I feel I made some valid points. If a *yes *person ever dares message me there will be trouble. I look forward to our private room!!  Thanks Ella 

I saw my GP this week, he seemed concerned with my age and felt the need to reiterate the high risk of miscarriage and almost didn't want me to get my hopes up. His words really grated on me so I told him the truth and I told him under no circumstances should this be recorded on my medical files and that my child is MY child. He was so relieved! He congratulated for me going down the donor route and said it was completely my business whether I disclosed the information but being the biological mother who has done all the nurturing there would be no valid reason to tell the child if I didn't want to. We discussed blood groups which I now understand makes no difference as the baby makes its own blood and rarely do parents and childrens blood groups match.

I didn't need his reassurance as I wouldn't have contemplated DE had I thought I might tell the child but it was good to hear it from the Doc. I am of the strong opinion that if you are going to invest so much time, cost and energy to bring a much wanted child into your family why then would you ram information that is hard to process down their little throats no sooner as they are able to talk? Why bemuse a little human being with information on eggs/embryo/sperm, another mother or another father. Life is sometimes hard enough to understand without all the extra complications. I am in my 40's and have only just grasped all of this myself. I feel that if you are intent on giving your child the option of meeting the 'real mother' or 'real father' then spare them nocuous egg and sperm discussions and adopt a child instead. Adoption is a much more pleasant choice in terms of telling. Children are more able to comprehend and visualise 'other parents' in human form rather than some microscopic cells (that you so enthusiastically couldn't wait to tell them about). Adopted children are much more likely to appreciate their adopted parents, I don't see how a DE child is going to thank you for bringing it into this world when he/she is a teenager amidst a massive argument.

_*These are my opinions only and as I am in the NOT TELLING room I don't expect any of my comments to be edited or deleted *_


----------



## Moragob

HI everyone

I have found this  thread incredibly helpful in making my decision whether to tell or not and I'm really sorry to hear that people's views are not being respected by those who hold other opinions.  I thought FF was a place for support and help not judgement.  I just wish people could grasp the fact that we are all in different situations and there is no absolute right or wrong way.  Surely we have had enough of a difficult journey without turning on each other?

I wish everyone, whether deciding to tell or not tell, lots of love and joy with their children - after all isn't that the whole point?

Morag


----------



## mogg77

Well I'm delighted to of stumbled on this post and look forward to the new area where I can talk openly about it all-I was feeling like we were the only ones but I can see now lots of others feel the same way. 
  We haven't come to our decision easily and have had the compulsory counselling where we felt very pressured and quite patronised too. ( my partner was repeatedly reprimanded for referring to the donor as the father in a slip of the tongue- probably through nervousness) we are perfectly intelligent and caring people who personally believe this is the right decision for us AND our future (hopefully!) child.


----------



## DizziSquirrel

Hi Ladies, 
We are currently looking at how best to provide an area for those members on FF wishing not to tell, so they can post openly and supportively of each other, we realise that a lot of what's posted here on FF is Pro telling and that this is not for everyone.

I would like to say that in dealing with needing a Donor diagnosis a person reading on FF will have thought long and hard, read, researched and debated and considered for their personal circumstances, using all information available to them on the internet and this site  that when they make their decision not to tell it is as valid and important as those who choose to tell, except I understand this does not always come across here in the forums, and it is this we would like to address. 

Please bear with us x 

~Dizzi~


----------



## juju81

I've been getting notifications for this thread and usually just delete them but came on to see what all the activity was all about!

I'm completely gobsmacked some of you have been PM'd by people being rude about you not telling!!!! Cripes.  Each to their own.  Theres just no need for that and I have to agree with taliya, there was no need for that 'p.s' Tony!!!!    

Big hugs to all of you xx


----------



## Anthony Reid

Well my reasons are personal - for not knowing who my father was until I was 18 - but thats my own personal view, and I wouldn't push it on anyone. I felt as the site owner it would be seen that I'm creating a safe place for those that do not have my views.  Apologies if I upset anyone.

Happy to talk privately to anyone who wants to ask.


----------



## Anthony Reid

Taliyas posted the same thing over and over about 10 times - thats why they were deleted.


----------



## chooshoos

Unfortunately no BFP for us YET but when it happens we are undecided on the tell / don't tell - I hope both forums will be open to respectful undecided participants as I find the input ans stories from the other members really helpful in getting a real life picture


----------



## Lilly83

I can honestly assure you Tony didn't mean to upset anyone he was just pointing out he respects both sides regardless of his own personal views, he is also aware of everything that's gone on as both him and Mel are very active on the boards behind the scenes 

Hope everyone's doing ok 

L x


----------



## LuckyE

Hiya, just to say I understand Tony's intentions but he could have easily just said he respects both sides of the argument without giving his "pro telling view point". I am not sure how helpful it is for some people to hear that someone is pro telling on a not telling thread regardless of well-meaning intentions. 

Anyway I will skulk back into the shadows until the private thread is up.


----------



## Mrs G 0207

Taliya's post pretty much sums it up for me. They will be MY children no1 elses. I will have grown them. They will NOT have siblings out there (except any other children I have). If you want your children to know they have other siblings then as taliya says: adopt!
Again these are my views.  No1 could change my mind. Our children will be loved so much.


----------



## Mel

I find your posts referring to adoption highly insensitive to those of us who have adopted and to those who have decided to tell their children how they were conceived, myself and tony were concerned about others interfering with your thread and we were open to options on how to resolve this but so far none of you have done yourself any favours by becoming very hostile to the rest of the infertility community and management on FF.


----------



## Mrs G 0207

But those are my views I'm not being hostile. Thats how I honestly feel. Adoption is an amazing thing it truly is. But it isn't for me. Because I want a child to be mine and no1 elses. Call me selfish but I cannot hide my views to not upset others. Thats why I would never tell a child conceived via donor because  thats a teeny tiny cell that I will then grow, give birth to and being up. It would break my heart for the child then to want to find its real mum/dad and also for the child to feel not part of us.


----------



## Lilly83

Thanks Mel

If I'm honest it really saddens me to hear these comments about adoption, I haven't shared my views as..well.. i'm here to try to support you all through your journeys and put my feelings second

But to hear a fellow FF say 'why don't you adopt' that's a comment I felt was reserved to ignorant colleagues who knew nothing about ivf 

L


----------



## Blondie71

I'm so disgusted by the past few days comments and you talk about being attacked wth are you doing? yes the adoption comments have sunk to a new low, ladies you should be ashamed


----------



## bundles

Well said Blondie. I have read over the last few days and avoided posting but I have to say that by resorting to highly emotive and potentially inaccurate comments, I feel you have lost the moral high ground  
Everyone has the right to their own opinions, and generally to voice them, however I would have thought that as grown adults we could decide whether to keep our thoughts to ourselves when to say them would cause hurt to others. FF is all about support & I feel saddened that things have come to this. Both sides should respect the others right to decide for themselves, although it would appear that some people's interpretation of this is what has started this problem in the first place. This is the Not Telling thread , and as such, that is what should be discussed here. It is not the thread to try and convert people from.


----------



## bombsh3ll

Big hugs to all the ladies who are currently feeling hurt and raw over some of the very heated comments on here of late  

I think more of the vocal pro-telling contingent seem to already have children/be pregnant whereas many of the ladies on this thread have not got there yet, which can make dealing with little comments that ordinarily wouldn't be a big deal harder to get past when you are in a vulnerable place. 

I just wanted to say that as a non-discloser who has been lucky enough to have had successful treatment, other people's comments and opinions really will matter so very little when your babies are here, however they are conceived & whether or not you choose to tell them the specifics of your treatment.

I can understand Tony's point of view about not knowing his father, but for those of us in heterosexual marriages or relationships our children will know both their parents, regardless of the origins of egg/sperm/both, so it is not the same situation.

Regarding the comments about adoption I can see how this could potentially be upsetting, but I personally would have loved to adopt, we tried that first before IVF as it was never about replicating my genes for me, I just wanted a child to love.

B xxx


----------



## bundles

Ladies   sadly it is often the few that spoil it for the many. Lets hope the dust is quick to settle and we can all go back to what we do best - supporting each other  
xx

PS Unsolicited, offensive or bullying PMs should be reported, then a record can be made, and where necessary, action taken.  Senders can also be blocked from messaging you.


----------



## Blondie71

So lovely to see dialogue about feelings being explored this is what this forum represents not attacking each other, and yes I have a different angle as I'm a single mum who's used donor sperm but I learn from each and every one of you and my tolerance is huge now and still growing, I hope you guys are not driven underground as this is not how it's supposed to be   nobody is in your shoes to dictate if you should tell or not, that's up to you and decisions change daily as we know.

Why did nobody report these pm's before I'm angry for you as I'm sure most of our community who've read this thread are  

You definately are as valid and welcome on these boards whatever your stance is and don't ever feel like you don't belong, of course your babies will be celebrated in the same way as those who adopt, take a surrogate, use DS, OE etc... they are all loved, longed for and YOURS whatever the route!!

Mel & Tony just want to say I take my hat off to you and admire you hugely as only having had a tiny glimpse into the adoption world and all the hoops you have to jump through in order to be accepted, I doubt I'd ever be given approval so I can only imagine what selfless, phenomenal people you must be and absolutely hugely deserving parents


----------



## Coolish

Hmmm, I don't normally post on this thread but I do read this and the pro-telling thread. I find, like most people I guess, that my thoughts have changed over the journey and I've moved to and fro between 'pro' and 'not'. I'm kind of still undecided and I USUALLY find these threads usedful. I don't think 'pro' people should push their views here and I don't think 'not' people should push their views on the 'pro' thread. That just seems fair.

I've not read back to see what all the upset has been about, but it saddens me that a private room should have to be created when this should be a thread that is available for all people the read. It's always so useful to see other people's reasoning and thoughts. It saddens me even more that people would not want to post on here due to feeling judged. 

BTW, I debated a bit about posting this as I don't want to cause offense or relight the upset again, but just wanted to say that I find the two different views/threads useful in my decision making process...


----------



## Mrs G 0207

After this post I wont be posting here again. 
After the response yesterday from me merely stating how I felt about it, it has made me realise that an online forum isn't worth my time. Its ok for people to be allowed opinions on here, as long as they're the right ones. A private board where yes people aren't even allowed to 'chip' in would be far better. 
Never in my life have I been referred to as hostile, I am one of the most open minded people out there.


----------



## Tick

I have also never previously posted in this thread, but I would like to echo cooljules sentiments.  I am generally a lurker, not a poster, but have found FF invaluable as support throughout my infertility, and both the pro tell & the not tell threads have given me plenty to think about.  

I would be sorry to see the support for this going underground, into a private area. I feel that I, and others like me who do more reading than posting, may not get the support we are looking for if it were private.  I know that I would never have asked for access to a private area, just when I was at my most vulnerable and in need of the support I found here.


----------



## Tick

In the interest of fairness, and although it touches on the "telling" side, I'd like to say that it isn't quite so clear cut as Ellaa has presented. Choosing to tell a child, should he/she be lucky enough to happen, is *not *the same as choosing to be open and tell everyone. It is possible to decide that you will probably tell the child as and when he/she is old enough to understand, and yet not tell everyone else about it. It would mean that those people could still be going through the process without telling anyone else, and therefore not having support from friends and family. There are areas of grey in the telling/not telling choice.


----------



## Coolish

Ellaa and Jade - thank you so much for posting as I realise now (doh) that it's kind of 2 dfferent threads. One (private) thread for support for if you decide not to tell and another (piublic) thread for help and advice etc about not telling.

Have I got that right? That does make sense. If you decide not to tell then you will want to keep things private as much as humanly possible. 

Again sorry for gatecrashing as I read and find the thoughts and responses useful in my own changing decision...


----------



## bundles

Ladies    To me, most of the posts today have been exactly what this thread is all about - polite discussion about a highly emotive subject. And yes, there is no black and white answer, just many shades of grey (probably even more than 50   ) We are non-tellers, and yes my OH is far more cautious & worried than I am. I have lost at least 2 ff's from my clinic thread over the last few years from fear of being traced   Once successful they just cancelled their 'membership' to sever all ties. 
There are many of us who generally just read this thread and make our own difficult decisions. It is important to realise that there is no right answer, only an answer that is right for you  
Let's get this thread back on track, and remember to report any private messages that you are not comfortable with.

Bundles xx


----------



## Parkin

Hello! I'm new to FF, and I was wondering, in addition to the tell and not tell threads, whether there is an 'undecided' thread? I have made my decision, I'm fairly sure, but for me, the more information the better, and I would imagine that an undecided thread might also be useful.


----------



## Lilly83

Hi Parking 

We don't have an undecided area as we use the main board for those, you can post a new post or join an existing thresd and also ask away on the telling/not telling threads and the ladies there may be able to guide you through their thought process deciding 

Thanks for the supportive post everyone especially bundles, I have been on a course with work mon-wed so wasn't able to post but was reading when I could 

Hope everyone's ok


----------



## Moragob

This is such a difficult and emotive subject and I too have found this tread so helpful in my thought processes and decision making.  I think it is important to not hide away or feel driven away as a non teller as there is no balance otherwise. I understand that it is important for private discussions to be kept private but it is also very important for all views to be aired and considered.  My own instincts are to not tell but my DH and I never discussed it properly and so he told his parents and I am still conflicted.  I find this thread incredibly helpful and people here often articulate my thoughts better than I can (as is often the case on FF as there as so many of us are dealing with the same extremely difficult situations).  I find it upsetting that people are feeling bullied and not supported and although I am somewhat reluctantly in the telling camp I too find the zealousness of some of the telling camp hard to stomach and it worries me that the not telling discussions may disappear, leaving a big gap in the support structure of this forum.

There are just so many nuances and circumstances and unfortunately once again it is the actions of a few that make it difficult for the majority, so please, please keep using this thread as it offers hope and support in so many ways. 

xxx


----------



## GIAToo

Hi All,
I am in the telling camp, but just wanted to send hugs to you all as I know how much pressure some of you get to tell.  I'm for each family doing what is best for them. 
     
GIA Too xx


----------



## Moragob

K Jade  I totally get where you're coming from - I really REALLY dislike the banging on from some that my daughter has or may have unknown "siblings"  NO SHE DOESN'T.  Her father and I have one child between us and she is our first and only so how the hell can she have siblings until we or one of us has another child.  If our donor has donated eggs to others that's fantastic but any children born as a result have no claim on any relationship with our daughter.  It was a single cell end of.  That's my biggest dislike of the DCN and the of the many reasons I'll keep my distance.  

That's my rant for the day 

Morag


----------



## bombsh3ll

Given the size of the world's population, the possibility of my daughter marrying an unknown half-sibling isn't going to keep me awake at night  

B xxx


----------



## Moragob

Ellaa

i lived in Tasmania for a few years - now that was a small and remote population until quite recently....  I'm sure there's a few who look too alike there    But it's a wonderful place.

Morag


----------



## bundles

You should go to Canning Town   although that could be the mercury in the water   

xx


----------



## bundles

Oh yes, it's in the air too Ellaa   I think it's the stink from the lard/oil factory near the flyover


----------



## bundles

Lol and on most of the bank notes   I used to do 'drugs of abuse' pre-employment screening & you'd be surprised how many came up positive, and even more were just below the cut-off for reporting so had to be called negative !!
I do wonder about the levels of hormones now in our water supply, and how much it affects our fertility   it certainly seems that girls are starting their periods much earlier now, and so the eggs will therefore run out sooner   Let's hope they further perfect the art of freezing eggs so that our future daughters won't have our dilemma with donor eggs  
xx


----------



## bombsh3ll

Hi K jade,

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what other people think, & all the scare stories by definition involve people who have been told/found out they are donor conceived. None of them involve people who don't know and are just getting on with life without any "donor conceived" issues.

Sadly IF women and men always seem to face tougher judgement from others - a different situation but I remember friends discussing a woman whose IVF baby had Down's syndrome, & she had decided to put him up for adoption. I doubt they would have expressed the same negativity about a fertile woman aborting a Down's baby, yet this lady had given life to her child & been brave enough to admit she couldn't care for him & give him the opportunity to find a family who could. 

I hope you find a way forward with peace of mind.

B xxx


----------



## bundles

New oasis of calm this way ladies 

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=332957.0


----------

