# 2WW FET (natural) Update from Me



## olgakorbut (Jul 5, 2008)

Hi All

Just thougth I would quickly post before going to the dentist   in about half an hour - gosh must get a move on! Rather than put an update here, unless I have a question (s) - and I have loads cause of being on this dreaded journey to next Monday - I would give you the link to my diary, try not to go to sleep too quickly, it does get shorter honestly it does!!!!!   

Oh gosh, going mad here, good job going out shortly , will crank up my Japan CD (showing my age folks but he was gorgeous!!!!) and get to the dentist   Actually she is lovely and knows about my treatment - oh god I have to update her (her friend tried IVF 5 times and it worked in the end and she had twins!    one would do me!

See you soon adn thanjks for all your support, Mrs I have AF symptoms again and fed up with nausea feeling on and off person!
Kathy

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=151514.msg2334912#msg2334912


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## olgakorbut (Jul 5, 2008)

Well folks, hubbys alarm went off at 5am, due to early shift. Dying for a wee, so off Ito the loo, once he had gone downstairs, as had that feeling!!!! Didnt really feel nauseous this am, which I have been, although do a bit now, but think its the only 5 hours sleep bit, as didnt go to bed til 12.10am, so only had 5 hours sleep.  Felt I had to switch on the computer and write this, then go back to bed.

I was feeling AF like yesterday, all my usual symptoms I know I get, so went to the loo, (just been again too) and when I wipe (sorry TMI) slight mucous like discharge, which I get with AF before its due to happen, and slight colour, very faint, but it was there.  Ok when I went again it wasnt, but that is how my body usually goes.  So I have a feeling the dreaded big ugly BFN is rearing its ugly head.  I feel like somebody is pressing down on me down below, if that makes sense.  Today I have to do my job application, so have to carry on no matter what.  But I know the signs, though earlier than normal.  When my friend m/c'd about 2 months ago she felt sick like I have and had brown discharge (Ihad this when m/c), ok not got that, yet and last time I tried treatment, I came on a bit on the Friday (test date Monday) and then it stopped, it was so close to test date Clinic said it was the start of the rejection by embies.  Its earlier this time, I am only day 9 (if day one is day after FET if not day 10),but if the little embies have decided not to stay snuggled up in bed cause they just arent up to it there is nothing I can do about it.

I know a lot of you will probably say dont be daft, but with the shock I had on the way home from the dentist yesterday, when some idiot drove out straight in front  of my car, and though I did a fab emergency stop, and then carried on driving, I was shaking, perhaps that triggered stuff off – I know I am probably summising too much into it! Also they say not to carry heavy things, I had to carry my briefcase yesterday with my portfolior and other stuff in it for a distance to interview and then to the agency, that probably didnt help.

Sorry ranting as usual and probably being defeatest, not making much sense and all I wanted to say is that I am gutted I think they are abandoning ship and my last chance may well be over, I'll see what happens later, but dont like the feeling down there.  

Back to bed to see if I can get some sleep, but that feeling isnt comfy, not painful but not comfy.  I so hope I am wrong, but I know what my body does normally, please stick in there dont jump ship!!!


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## melly1 (Jan 29, 2008)

Hi olgakorbut, 

I am so sorry to hear that you are feeling so down, the 2 ww is an absolute bast***d isn't it? I am currently on day 5 after ET on 2/08/08 and am analysing every twinge. I feel like I am quite relaxed during the rest of the cycle but then turn into an absolute mad women during the 2ww and I hav't even made it to the second week yet. I can completely identify about worrying that carrying somthing heavy or your emergency stop has shaken things about too much but try and remain positive. It aint over until the AF sings. You were probably feeling less positive through lack of sleep anyway this morning. I will be keeping my fingers crossed for your BFP as this always gives us over 40's hope that it will eventually happen for us. Lots of sticky vibes coming your way. Melly1


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## olgakorbut (Jul 5, 2008)

Thanks Melly, weird since getting myself back up and out of bed, I have come up with the saying 'it aint over til the fat lady sings'  you virtually said that same.  Spooky - is it because you live pretty close to me and a fellow midlander!

I would so like to give people hope, and have seen people getting pg over 40 - there was a lady in the paper the other week who was 47 and had tried IVF cause of age, and then came off it and caught naturally, she used Chinese herbal teas!

Good luck with your 2WW, you are right it drives you absolutely dotty and insane, and I am definitely that, although I know what my body does.  My tum feels bit weird now, still got AF sort of type feelings though changed, and no further sign of any colour - YET!!!

Fingers crossed for both of us!!!       
Kathy x


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## melly1 (Jan 29, 2008)

Keep me posted Kathy, us midlanders over 40 need to stick together. LOL Melly xx


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## olgakorbut (Jul 5, 2008)

Thanks Melly I will, presume you are Newark on Trent, although I am sure when I worked in Nottingham (and still go back there) there was a Newark in Nottingham or nearby Probably going mad with this hormone thing!!!!

Kathy xxx


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

My question would be are you on enough progesterone and have you had your post transfer p4 levels checked?

You should not get AF before test date as you should have sufficient progesterone on board to prevent AF.  If progesterone is too low, you may bleed before test date and this may prevent implantation.

I would advise you to up your progesterone and perhaps ask your clinic to check your progesterone levels if they can.

Best,

Daisy
x


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## olgakorbut (Jul 5, 2008)

Thanks Daisy - gorgeous name, one of my first ever dolls, who I loved dearly, was Daisy by Mary Quant (wish i still had her as she would be worth something now!)

I am not on any progesterone at all, the clinic said my natural cycle was to be treated as if I had conceived naturally and that no medication was needed by me, as I ovulated ok and regularly and had no other areas for concern. I havent actually bled yet just had that slight mucous sign it was on its way, like I normally get - I probably wasnt very good at explaining at 6am this morning, as I was panicing to say the least - which I suppose is down to my last chance at it bit. Nothing since then although AF type feeling still there, and knicker watching like mad!!!

I guess at the moment my natural progesterone levels are ok, hope if they are going to implant they have done it already though, not sure how long you can go up to until it happens, if it is going to that is??  Is it 10 days?  I am on day 9 if day 1 is day after FET (mine wasnt until 3.30 pm on the mOnday).  I've never done a natural cycle and this is my only FET, so I dont know what my bodywill do.  When I conceived naturally in 2006 it implanted ok tho' lost it at 3 months.

I am going to look really thick now, so many people seem to know so much more than me, even though I have had 3 IVF's!  What are P4 levels please??  I cant up my progesterone if not on it can I really.  Hopefully AF wont arrive at all properly,    

So if I appear ignorant Daisy and hopefully you can explain.

kathy xxxxx  just for you ! x


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi Kathy,

Didn't mean any confusion - am really sorry though as I didn't realise you were on a natural cycle.  The ovulation in a natural cycle causes progesterone to be produced by the rupturing of the corpus luteum as the egg is released and this is why you are not on supplementary progesterone - this is completely standard procedure.  This is very different to a medicated ivf cycle where no ovulation takes place and therefore less p4 is produced and supplementation is needed for pg.  

P4 is another term for progesterone.  P4 levels may or may not be ok - hard to tell without a test.  What progesterone does is keep the lining of the womb thick and intact in order for a pregnancy to implant and grow.  If p4 levels are too low, the embryo may implant but the womb lining may break down meaning the embryo cannot stay implanted.

However, there is no reason to think at the mo. that your levels are not ok.  The only way to know for sure is to have a p4 test which you can do at the same time as the beta if you want for more info.

Wishing you lots of luck,

Daisy
x


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## olgakorbut (Jul 5, 2008)

Thanks Daisy was really worried, dont think I have ever had one of those test, you seem to be a fantastic library of knowledge!!!!  Not sure what beta is either sorry - gosh daft arent I, I probably do just another name for something else like P4.

Tired now must get off to bed very soon, didnt sleep much.  AF symptoms got much worse and odd jabbing pains, but seems to have eased off now, but still there worse luck!!!  Sore boobs too, I may ring clinic tomorrow if worried unless something happens overnight, please no     .  If I am going to get a BFN, I would rather do so on test day.  Gosh didnt know that your womb lining could break down either, I wonder if that is what happened when I conceived naturally - more likley the egg I would have thought being too old.

Just have to wait and see what tomorrow brings,       Help!


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Kathy,

a beta  is the beta hcg blood test which determines the level of the pregnancy hormone hcg in the blood.  It is done to determine whether you are pregnant.  It is a usual test in most ivf cycles - mostly done at 14 days past transfer.  It gives an indication of the potential state of the pregnancy, assessed by whether the level doubles over approx. 48 hours.

I hope you don't get a bfn Kathy.  But, if you do and you are going to continue with DE for example, I would really recommend you and your DH having a few basic tests to make sure all is ok as anything wrong systemically with you or DH's sperm will affect a DE pg.  It is true that the most common cause of miscarriage is chromosomally abnormal embryos which is more common as we age - BUT there are other miscarriage causes which should be discounted.

There is a list of relevant tests at the top of the investigations and immunology board.   Your GP can do many of them and I would really recommend that you have the basics done before proceeding.

I had 3 own eggs ivfs at age 44 - 44.5 and got pg on all of them.  I miscarried all 3 and went on to miscarry donor eggs.  I was finally diagnosed with clotting and autoimmune issues and with the help of steroids, clexane and other meds. was able to give birth to twins from donor embryo.

Best of luck,

Daisy
x


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## olgakorbut (Jul 5, 2008)

Gosh Daisy so you have so been through it, but to have your darling twins now must be fabulous for you!!! A friend of mine from on here and another board, where I met her, is due twins from Embryo transfers abroad in about 7/8 weeks too!

~do you know what I have never ever in my IVF treatment had beta done.  Even when on my first go and I had a feint line, I was told to just go back for another test the following week. Perhaps at CRM they hold fire and if there is a line still second week then they test to check it out.  UUMM maybe a question I should ask if I get anywhere this time!

We did have basic tests done before we started about 2 years ago now, and all was fine, including DH's sperm count.  However we havent had any done recently, and I have a list of the immune ones, although when I got worried that perhaps we had an immune problem I had a good long chat with the consultant and she was fab.  She assured me she believed it was the state of my eggs, I had alot of the level one tests done by the Gp for them when we started and all was fine. However I know if you go abroad you have to have all the tests done anyway which is good. Only thing is you have to pay for them, although some GP's will do them so I will try that route first!!!!  They may charge at bit at the GP's but it may not be as much as the clinic.  Done loads of research on clinics abroad and people on here have been fab (where did you go by the way?) but its on hold until after Monday if I get there! It would also be on hold financially until I get a job really, but hopefully not too long!!!

I will speak to the clinic Monday about tests etc etc if I can do this through the tears - gosh I need to be more positive!     

As for my symptoms, I sent you a message late last night, but just to let you know about this am. Woke up and got out of bed, dizzy spell.  Ignore stuff though as you get so many things and cant read anything into them - she says after yesterday!  Felt sick and boobs still sore, not so bad now though.  AF feeling still there but not anywhere near as bad, though seems to be coming back again now - not sure if that is because I am sitting down alot at the moment in time?  Shouldnt be.  Not feeling sick now but have had my organic muesli and Pomegranate juice!!! Tired but have had late nights.  I am still knicker watching like mad   ,just cant help it as if have AF feeling keep thinking it is coming on.  

Have to say on another board I am on, one lady, bless her, who is having treatment phoned her auntie who is an IVF clinic nurse about me, how sweet is that.  There are such lovely people out there and its good we all understand each other eh!!

Actually I lay in bed this am and thought back to my 2nd IVF which is where these embies are from, it was my only cycle where I got 5 eggs, 4 fertilised and 2 were frozen, hence my FET!  It was the worst cycle I had, real probs, just like these 2WWs - ill or what.  I was sick after collection at the clinic, couldnt even keep water down.  I only normally ever get eggs on my left ovary, very rare the right.  This time I had one in my right side, little b****r it was, apparently they had to push down on my right ovary to get at it due to scar tissue I had from ops. They had right fun and games, hence why I was probably ill!!!  I had to be taken up onto the ward in the hospital for 2 hours until I could eat something and keep water down.  So its probably that little blighter that is in me now!!!

I will keep you posted, off to update my diary now, it helps to write things down.  You have probably nodded off by now with all my waffling!

Thanks so much
kathy xxx


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## olgakorbut (Jul 5, 2008)

Signs were all good, just been to loo and blood wiped, nothing on 2nd wipe, but it looks like my symptoms were for AF not pg, cant believe it when last night I felt sick like anything, jabbing pains left and right.. It cant be anything else, I got it last time on the Friday then it vanished but Mon on the test day it was negative and AF full blown.

Looks like my last chance is over, cant talk anymore sorry xxx


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## daisyg (Jan 7, 2004)

Kathy ,

Not sure what tests you and DH have actually had, but doubt very much whether you have had all relevant testing and certainly anything done 2 years ago will need repeating.

So called immune testing is not the only testing for miscarriage or implantation failure. In fact issues like NK Cells, DQ Alpha, Cytokines are pretty rare and the other more common causes are more likely to be issues. It is these more common causes of failure that I would urge you to test (e.g. thyroid, insulin resistance, uterine, sperm dna etc, karyotyping for your DH, clotting, autoimmune, bacterial and hormonal).

Here is a relevant list,

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=80433.0

Here is London Lou's list referring to the Immune tests

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=82741.0

I agree that at age 45 age of you and your DH is probably the main issue and sadly it is very rare to have a pg with own eggs at this age through ivf or naturally, but it doesn't hurt to test for the most common issues before continuing with DE if that is what you decide.

Sorry to go on, but in my experience people often believe they have had all relevant testing only to fail and find out later that they have undiscovered, treatable issues preventing pg.

Best of luck,

Daisy
x


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## nbr1968 (Feb 25, 2008)

Dear olgakorbut

I am so sorry that it did not work for you - look after yourself and allow time to grieve, and then hopefully you will find the inner strength to go ahead and maybe go for the other option you mention in your profile.

Take care and know that we all feel for you and empathise - sending you lots of hugs  

Nbrxxxx


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## millie34 (May 8, 2006)

Hi olgakorbut,

Im so sorry to hear your news and I am sending you a huge hug   my thoughts are with you today. 

M
xx


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## sallywags (Jun 27, 2005)

Hun, when is your OTD? don't lose hope yet - lots of people spot/bleed early......


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## olgakorbut (Jul 5, 2008)

Hi All

Just thought I would let you know that I did a test at 5.20 am as I thought if I need a wee I might as well do it, if there has been a feint line I would have some hope, but there isnt and I think I have to face facts AF is on its way now, it would be my due date today, and although no blood this am wiping there was another sign its going to be here before the days out!  Nothing is suddenly going to change overnight before official test, may ring clinic if AF fullblown and say I dont want to go in, but book to go and discuss other stuff

So my last 2 little embies will shortly be joining the other 6        embies and the one  boy  I lost at 3 months in 2006.

I have to do job stuff today and dont feel like it, and one task is for a job I is not really right for me as its internal communications manager and I like external focussed!  

I havent told DH as yet that I did the test, just want to cry on my own when he is out of the room!    

Looks like DE is my last option

Daisy - you sent me some links for tests you thought I should do before going for ED and I cant find the message anywhere, can you re-send 

I feel so sad and want to just cry now DH has left the room

Goodnight god bless to all my angels!
Kathy xxx


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## Violet66 (Dec 28, 2007)

Kathy....so sorry to read this. 

have a good cry - it really does help. 
Nothing more i can say, have a big hug from me and take your time in deciding what the next step should be - a knee jerk reaction is never the best way to go. xx


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## olgakorbut (Jul 5, 2008)

(

...perhaps a new beginning!

I am at the moment trying to be positive, but DH is on lates so went this pm and wont be home until midnight or just before, so it may hit me late and sort of is now that I am not pg through our own eggs and sperm.  

I didnt come back on the board yesterday to say that I did another pg test and there was a line, as I didnt want to make an idiot of myself, and I thought maybe there is a very very very slim chance of being the miracle 45 year old eh!  Alas not to be and I have just put my little embie babies to bed with their brothers/sisters and thanked my grandad for looking after them.

I tried my best to get there naturally and with IVF, but it wasnt to be and I am upset but have some hope in a way.  I said to hubby whilst the nurse went to get us some info, you dont say alot about DE abroad etc etc, thinking he isnt for it.  I think it is more the money thing and I so need to get a job and pray I do soon to help out!  He shocked me and talked all the way home and said he would prefer to go straight to donor embryos? I was amazed, although we have other options and are not going to discount those, one very special one in particular which I cannot go in to.  That way it is neither his nor mine biologically, and even though I thought he would agree with me and it being half us, he said it doesnt matter and that whoever brings them up are their parents and they love them no matter what!  

I tried to encourage him to do tests and think he will, but I think there is reason behind him saying what he did, e.g. he knows his ex-wife had Mental Health probs and has said in the past his daughter has them and is worried that a biological child may be the same.  Maybe it is just me thinking that way,but I wouldnt be surprised if he felt like that, although you dont know what may happen with DE and tendancies eh!!! Also he says that he is now 47 and although the nurse said he looked 35, much to his delight, he says there could be probs with his sperm and we dont know and best to go for donor embryo where the donor on both sides is very young and gives us a chance.

Crying now again in amazement to be honest, I so wanted a little miracle to be part of him, but he just wants one for us to love!!!! xxxx 

I so pray that we can get there and in the meantime thank you all for your lovely messages of support and sorry I didnt come up trumps, I so wish I could, but hopefully I will get your support in the next phase, if I can get a job that is! I will certainly be supporting all my mateys on here!!!!

hugs and love and goodbye to my own last 2 angels
Kathy xxxxx


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## jess p (Sep 25, 2004)

Hi,

It is heartbreaking to realise you won't be able to have a baby that is genetically part you and part your husband (and some people never come to terms with this) but, as soon as the donor/my DH embryos were inside me I was just so delighted to be having another chance.

I totally agree with your DH about the people who bring you up being the true parents - I'm adopted and I adore my M&D - I couldn't have chosen better parents myself!

Some people choose to have DE in the UK because it's not anonymous but we prefered the Greek way that you know the nationality and the age of the donor as we felt that was enough.  I'm happy for people to know we used donor eggs from abroad as I feel it raises the profile of how difficult it is in this country for people with IF.

At the end of the day you have to go with what you know you can cope with emotionally (and, sadly financially).

Good luck!  I really hope you manage to take the next step!

Love Jess xxx


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## Mrs CW (Jul 12, 2004)

I hope you don't mind honey but I have merged all your recent posts so it's easier for others to respond.

I'm so sorry about your BFN  

Claire x


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