# Single Women Needing Donor Eggs - Part 3



## Sharry

New Home


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## suitcase of dreams

Just bookmarking


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## Betty-Boo

Me too x x


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## Candee

Hey Mini! You are coming home! Have a safe trip and welcome back to the UK!
LOL
Candee
x


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## Betty-Boo

Candee - thank you honey - all back safe and sound ... a little tired - but so glad to be home x x big big hugs to you and your LO x x


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## suitcase of dreams

Good to have you back Mini. What now for you work wise? Do you have a new posting to start straight away or do you get some time off?
Gosh, time will fly and you'll be back at Reprofit soon enough - how exciting   

Hello other DE ladies, very quiet on this thread at the moment but hope all are well and enjoying the Summer   
Suitcase
x


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## Betty-Boo

Hi suity - been drafted back to Plymouth!!  Fab news - don't start back at work until 12th Oct!!  Got loads of leave to take - think I need it to get used to being back in civilisation!!
How are you?? x x


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## suitcase of dreams

Mini - that's fab news! Can't believe you don't go back to work until 12th Oct - am very envious....
I'm OK, just counting the days to the scan and hoping it's all going to work out OK. Taking it easy in the meantime - lots of lounging around on the sofa reading books   
So can't complain!

Suitcase
x


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## blueytoo

Mini - fab that you are back home now and even better that you have until October off! Like a uni student again   When are you off to Reprofit again?

Suity - stay on the sofa - that's an order!  

AFM, I took my last BCP today so I am now officially freaking out as this donor egg thing is now real.   that my AF comes on time. It has 5-7 days and no leeway on that which could be interesting considering my AF is capable of continuing through BCP + 4 northisterone a day and of course is also capable of arriving through gestone + 1200mg cyclogest!! So I'm not convinved that it can behave enough to arrive on time when I need it to but am really hoping that it can, after 25 years of hell, do this one thing for me this cycle so I don't have to cancel


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## suitcase of dreams

oh, good luck bluey, really hope your AF plays ball and arrives when you need her too 
sending lots of      for this cycle,

Suitcase (from the sofa!) 
x


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## midnightaction

*mini* - Can't believe you are back already, I remember when you got the news you were going, that only seems like yesterday, time really is going too quickly !! 

Glad your back in lovely Plymouth, tis a great part of the country, although I am slightly biased as it is right by me 

*suity*- Hope your managing to get some sleep and trying not to stress too much (Although I know that is a ridiculous thing to say because it is impossible not to worry). Hope the scan comes around quick enough 

*bluey*- Tell your flippen AF that if she p*sses about I will come around there and give her a damn good talking too 

AFM- Nothing new to report, am just waiting for my scan on Tuesday to see if I have any lining left after my on off bleeding over the last week. Nothing I can do till then, and for once I am not being neurotic about it (although that can always change !  ), what will be will be (Wow that really was quite optimistic for me !  )

Big hugs to everyone else 

Sarah xxx


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## Betty-Boo

Hello - all a bit quiet one here at the moment .... 
Just paid my storage fees for my finest danish wigglies at reprofit - sort of making next year a bit more real!!  Perhaps I need that - altho enjoying the year out at the moment.
How's everyone else?? x x


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## wishingforanangel

wish i was able to get here the past few months but it seems to come and go as to whether or not i can visit here in terms of time and my depression. 

course i guess both are related to my last failed cycle in a couple of weeks ago in London. don't feel bad about going through the cycle because now I know I only have a 5% chance of getting pregnant with my own eggs but I wish I knew about my chances with that crazy doctor I was working with before I went for my last cycle in London.

guess now I don't know if I should adopt or try egg donation. wish I could go back to the LWC for the donor egg scheme but I have a feeling the wait would be forever...sigh.


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## ♥JJ1♥

WFAA- so sorry to hear that you had a negative cycle, and the effects it has had on you.  
L x


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## Betty-Boo

Wishing you sound just as I did Jan last year - counselling really helped me... I know its not everyone's choice.  Take care honey and please do not be hard on yourself     
Take care x x


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## wishingforanangel

thanks jj1 & mini minx. i just hate that this is so rough on me...


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## Betty-Boo

Mmm am a bit pee'd off at the mo - having read elsewhere that Reprofit are 'making' sibling e mbiesfor a couple  - using original donors of their baby is great to read - however why the hell am I paying for a fresh cycle when they could use my DS and 'create' me an embie and I'd have DFET??  Would be so much cheaper than a fresh cycle - have to admit am starting to struggle with the financial side of things and having serious second thoughts about the whole thing now...      Must be my hormones!!   

How's everyone else??  Very quiet on here now which is a darn shame
mini x


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## suitcase of dreams

mini -    

I saw the post you mention and in their case I guess it makes sense because they want the same two donors as before so their siblings are genetically related 

That said though, fresh cycles do I think have better success rates....

Equally no reason why you couldn't ask about the possibility of creating embyros from the donor sperm you have there - I assume you're thinking perhaps with a back-up donor from someone else's fresh cycle? Does mean you would perhaps have less choice of egg donor characteristics vs a fresh cycle though...

How much sperm do you have left and how keen are you to stick to it? Because if you were happy to let the sperm go, you could get FET either at Reprofit or elsewhere (Ostrava seems to have no wait list for eg) for the lower price

So much to think about and it's all so emotional and difficult isn't it? I do feel for you, hope you feel better soon,
 
Suitcase
x


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## Betty-Boo

Suity honey - thank you     with everything you're going through you always manage to provide words of wisdom!  Thank you.

Think I'm just a bit pee'd off with Reprofit after being assured that having to cancel cycle in Jan I would be able to cycle on my return to the UK - but alas that's not the case and was back to the bottom of the list.  Ah well - probably a good thing as mind is all over the place and am having lots of doubts.  

Take care honey am thinking of you x x x

Forgot to say have another 2 vials of pure danish waiting for me at Reprofit.


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## Elpida

Mini - I can't relate to your particular situation but can understand the frustration and confusion at all the different options, treatments and paths there are to take in this journey. The choices  over which way to go are so monumental when the outcome is so important, plus the journey is so utterly draining, emotionally, physically and financially. 


Lots of   


E x


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## blueytoo

Mini -    - I definitely agree with Suity, no harm in asking Stepan. Also if you are not bothered about blood group of donor/s then you can get in very quickly for DFET. I had no wait at all as I took this route. The delay for me was purely on my side, so I could save up enough money, work it round my college course starting and my parents holiday dates as they are looking after DS for me as this is a secret cycle that no-one except two real life friends and FF'ers know about. I haven't told my DS or my parents, they think I am off to Brno to go and see about a tooth implant and getting my laser eye surgery there as it's so much cheaper  

I hope you figure out something soon if you feel you want to change your plans.

AFM, just waiting for my lining scan on 17th then ET on 24th.


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## Rose39

Wow Bluey - just saw that it's your ET on the 24th, good luck!!!    

Mini - hope that you get some answers from Reprofit hunny   .

I think it's me for ET next after Bluey - if I get to Cape Town ..... am due to fly out on bank holiday Saturday, just when the journalists are speculating the airport strikes will be. Feeling very stressed and scared that my trip won't happen at all, after 5 months of planning and going through horrible LIT (really painful, 12 injections into my arms like angry wasp stings!), and all the other immune tests and treatments. Keeping fingers and toes crossed that the strike doesn't happen and I get to go to lovely SA (even in the middle of winter!).   

Rose xx


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## cocochanel1

Hi Rose gosh that would be gutting. Have you got a plan B to get to Cape Town if a strike does happen? eg. train to Paris and on etc. I don't know the alternatives but may be worth looking into the art of the possible as you would then know you had a back up plan xxx


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## Betty-Boo

Rose honey have everything crossed your flight is ok x x x
Wishing you all the luck in the world for this cycle x x x

Thanks for words of wisdom - am a bit of a stickler when it comes to blood group - think its the telling the child bit - different blood groups etc.  Will probably email Reprofit and have a chat with them.  In all honesty having second thoughts about all of it.  Got an appointment with GP next week - think the od meonopause is starting to kick in so am hormonally all over the place!!!  Get them sorted before next major decision!!     

Take care x x x Have missed you all!!  Great to finally communicate without losing connection etc x x


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## lulumead

weirdly coco I suggested exactly the same thing on another board   


Mini     so hard to know what to do.  Why are you having second thoughts? Anything you want to chew over with us?  PM me if you want.
xxx


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## Betty-Boo

Lulu honey - thank you - think am a little bit hormonal - all sorts going thro mind - like what the hell am I doing??  Blah blah blah ... will be ok I'm sure.  Thank you for your support... x x x
Also thinking about re-starting dhea and maybe having a go at iui ... you never know eh!! x


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## Rose39

Gosh Mini - hope your discussion with your GP goes well.   

Coco - yes I've been looking into alternatives. The problem is that Cape Town isn't like New York or other major cities where there are lots of flights with lots of airlines.... it would mean a nightmare journey of getting a flight to Munich and connecting in Dubai, or flying to Zurich and connecting in Johannesburg. And if the strike does go ahead I have to wait until the airline (South African) offers me an alternative. So hoping it doesn't come to that! I'll read the small print of my travel insurance this weekend. 

Rose xx


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## lulumead

Oh rose....such unnecessary stress...hope the small print gives some glimmer of hope.
Am crossing everything for you.       


Mini: think it might be natural to just think 'what the hell am I doing?' I think it all the time...my current fear is 'what happens if after all this time, I don't like being a parent'    I think its just so overwhelming that its too mammoth to contemplate.  I am a fan of IUI, why not give it a go!

xxx


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## blueytoo

Rose I am worried about the same thing as they are saying they could strike as early as 23rd which is the day I am due to fly out. Ryan Air have stopped their Birmingham to Prague flights so if the strike goes ahead I will have to cancel as am flying Stansted to Brno and Stansted is one of the airports that they will have to close


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## Betty-Boo

BAA STRIKES!!!  Really hope it all goes away and you all manage to get to your desired destinations x x x x  As if we don't have enough stress what with injection hormones etc..

Take care x x x  Have everything crossed it will all blow over x x


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## Candee

Hi everyone
Rose and Bluey I am sorry you have this extra stress which you don't need      stupid airlines!
I have everything crossed for you both that you get away without problems.  
Mini I am sorry you are feeling confused about things and I hope you get things sorted out in your own mind, so that you can move forward in a way you are happy with.  
Wishing I hope you are feeling better   
Hi to Midnight, lulu, coco, Esperanza and JJ1  
LOL
Candee
x


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## blueytoo

I just had my day 14 lining scan today and my lining is fine at 13mm with the usual triple stripe so I'm happy. Will email Stepan now and then start taking cyclogest tonight.

Feels very real now.

How's everyone else doing? Is it just Rose and I doing tx at the moment?


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## cocochanel1

Bluey wishing you so much luck for this cycle - hope this is the one for you. You have been through so much and I hope this is your turn.
Coco xxx


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## blueytoo

Thanks Coco    

Just heard back from Stepan and he said not to start progesterone until Thursday as my lining is very fluffy already  

My DS is so excited. I hadn't told him, but something happened on Sunday night and I decided to tell him. First he was cross that I hadn't told him, although he had guessed and just though I knew he knew so wasn't mentioning it. Now he is just so excited. I usually do tell him (no choice really as he has to come to all appointments) but had decided not to this time to try and save him from the hurt of a BFN or another miscarriage. I haven't yet told him it's donor embryos, although he does know about them as we discussed me possibly using them a few months ago. I will wait and see the outcome before telling him.

He had a plum today and it had two stones in it and he was all excited saying it was a sign of twins


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## lulumead

Good luck bluey.  Hope your sons prediction is right    He's sounds like a lovely boy.
xx


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## wishingforanangel

Mini - sorry you are having a hard time right now but have to admit i love your censored emoticon with baa being weird. don't know why but the censor emoticon tickles me pink.

candee - thanks for your support.

does anyone know how much of better chance of getting pregnant with a fresh donor cycle over embryo donation/adoption? for me it seems easier for me to deal with embryo donation/adoption so i don't have to coordinate with the donor...course i don't really know if am suppose to be scanned several times before the embryo donation/adoption transfer....

seems kind of confusing too me.


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## Betty-Boo

Wishing honey - just had an email from reprofit - their wait list for DFET is 3-4 months depending on blood group wanted etc...  You'll still need to be scnanned - just to make sure you've a lovely snuggly lining ready for the embies!
As for fresh vs frozen - in all honesty I've seen more success with frozen recently - altho reprofit prefer you to use fresh as the odds of falling are higher...  I'm booked in for fresh cycle - but that's cos I've still 2 vials of my pure danish wrigglies over in czech.. bless them!

Take care x x


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## blueytoo

*Wishing*, as the others have said, it would just be one scan for embryo adoption/donor embryos unless of course your lining wasn't ready at that scan, then you'd need another. Slightly less success rate for frozen embryos, but I suspect that Reprofit success rates aren't collected in quite the same way as they are over here.

I went for frozen embryos over fresh donor eggs because you can have 3 attempts with the embryos for the price of less than 1 fresh cycle so that extends my chances.

*lulumead* - thanks hun


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## Betty-Boo

All the best bluey x x x     

Am pee'd off with my body!!  After having a cycle of 8 weeks followed by one of 11 weeks I went to the doc as think the change is upon me (and after numerous preganact tests as was seeing someone at the time) ... so this month - bang on 28 days and yep ... AF arrived!!  Which means the month I get my FSH and LH FBC blah blah blah done and my body is behaving!!!  They're gonna think I'm nuts ha ha ha            
Think I may be cracking up ... here's hoping the bloods show something ... 

Ah well ... still undecided about donor eggs ... am sure it'll all become clearer nearer the time.. x x 

Big big hugs to everyone x


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## Betty-Boo

A step in the right direction??

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7958588/Egg-and-sperm-donors-could-get-up-to-800-in-payments.html

Were discussing it on GMTV x x

/links


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## Sima

This is the headline news on GMTV today.  I think it is good news but no indication on timing as yet.  At least it will open the debate on the shortage of egg and sperm donors in the UK.  However this is a much bigger issue than payment. In countries like Spain there is much more of a culture of donation than in the UK.  Let's see what happens.


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## midnightaction

Hello ladies

Hope everyone is well  

I have been keeping on the down low these last few weeks coz after the 2 cancelled transfer due to lining issues I felt a bit in limbo, plus I didn't want to tempt fate by talking about it.

Anyway we changed my protocol and added in estrogen patches and Viagra and I am over the moon that today's scan showed a lining of 9.2mm (it was 3.7mm last cycle !!). So after much waiting and false starts I am finally going over to collect my embies on Monday.

I am so happy I feel like I could sing....... But I won't !  

Love to you all

Sarah x x


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## Betty-Boo

Sarah honey       for this cycle - what a lovely plump lining!! Yay x x x


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## suitcase of dreams

Sarah - what fab news     So pleased you got your lining sorted, wishing you so much luck for your FET    
Suitcase
x


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## Rose39

Sarah - fantastic news! Wishing you so much luck for this cycle!    

Bluey - good luck for tomorrow !!! Keeping fingers crossed for you!    

I'm next up after Sarah - if all goes well, FET on Tuesday 31st. It's Intralipids and LIT this week before I leave for Cape Town, which I'm not looking forward to. If it makes a difference though....    

Rose xx


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## lulumead

Great news Sarah    


Good luck Rose.


  Mini, hope your body starts behaving...very frustrating, I imagine.


Hello everyone else.
xxx


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## bingbong

Rose I really hope that all goes well with your FET     . I think about you often   

Sarah great news about the lining      

Mini   

bingbong x


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## wishingforanangel

thanks mini minx, blueytoo, & cem for the info about the difference between embryo adoption and a fresh donor cycle and the scan. i think i'll be happy with the embryo adoption as a 40% chance is a whole lot better then my miserable 5% chance with my own eggs. also it feels weird to leave the embryos on ice or whatever it is called...i know alot of people only consider embryos as property or not alive but for me the embryos feel alive and i hate the idea they are left alone in some sort of cold storage where they are not wanted...

has everyone in the singles gone to retrofit? i was planning on going to a clinic in barcelona, spain as there is a no waiting period and won't interfere with my work schedule....

good luck sarah in your cycle...


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## Sima

Excellent news on the lining Sarah.  Good luck for next week.    All sounding positive so far.

Rose - good luck for next week.  When do you fly out to Cape Town?

Not much happening my end on the donor egg front.  I have been on the Lister donor egg waiting list for 11 months and today I called them to find out how far up the list I had moved.  Well I am number 47   so it looks like I am in for a long wait.  Good job I am not in a hurry!!!  I'm guessing abroad is going to be the only option for me when I am ready to go which will not be until after my fibroid op.  The only good thing they did say is that if I did make it to the top of the list and I still hadn't had my op yet then the clinic would put my place on hold so that I could go ahead have the op, recover and not lose my place.


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## Betty-Boo

that's great news sima - remember Glasgow saying the same to me ...... must contact them!!

Take care - must admit am not in an rush either x x


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## blueytoo

*Sima* - when I first donated at the Lister my recipient had been on their list for several years. Very good news that they will hold your place so you can get your fibroid sorted thought. They do tend to be very good with things like that there.

*Wishing* - I went to Reprofit because of the cost. Had no wait and just couldn't afford Spanish prices. Also Czech colouring much closer to mine as I am very pale and very blonde.

*Rose* - thank you so much for remembering me  I hope the LIT goes ok, I know the intralipids will. I really hope your trip to Cape Town is smooth and so much luck for your ET   

*Mini* - you'll make the decision when it's right for you 

*Sarah* - I said it yesterday by text and email but I am SO happy for you   I know I didn't dance up the steps of the plane yesterday when I heard your news, but I'll make up for it by dancing up them tomorrow  I will make sure your carrot cake is extra special on Saturday 

As for me, I had ET today. It was very delayed, was supposed to be 11am and ended up being 12.45 after I was told there was a problem with theatre and it wouldn't be until 12. I was really worried as I had taken diazepam and benzodiazepine ready for the ET so was freaking out that they would wear off. They definitely did a bit, but it was okish in the end. Third attempt was the lucky one.

I am concerned that they were only grade 2 when Stepan said specifically that they were grade 1. The doctor said at the time of ET that they were grade 1-2 but the report sheet says (I think) they are grade 2. Anyway, still hatching blasts, so I will try and hold onto that instead.

Love to all

xx


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## Sima

Congratulations on being PUPO *Bluey*. Sorry to hear ET did not go ahead as planned but hopefully your embie(s) are snuggling in for the long haul. How many did you get put back?


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## blueytoo

Sima - it was frozen donor embryos so they only offer you 2. I would have loved 3


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## wishingforanangel

Blueytoo - I guess I didn't pay attention to the prices between Retrofit and IM in Barcelona only because everything is cheaper in Europe than here in the States for me. Ironically even my last cycle (IVF) at LWC in London with the exception of the hotel, flight, & food was cheaper for me then in the States...Glad you didn't have to wait for your embie transfer with Retrofit...I was going to do it earlier with Retrofit (after a 4 month wait) in July but opted to try with my own eggs. Hmm. I guess the wait list varies with Retrofit...

Hmm... I really didn't think about coloring of the donors (i.e. blonde or black hair, light skin or not) really being that I am Asian and kinda of figured I wouldn't get an Asian donor...I guess I was possibly hoping for the donors to be British only in terms that American history and culture is heavily influenced by British history/culture.


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## Sima

Hi Wishing - interesting what you said about colouring.  Have you been in touch with IM in Barcelona yet?  It might be worth checking to see if they have any Asian donors on their books.  I know most of their donors are young students and Barcelona is quite a cosmopolitan city so they might have donors which match your characteristics if that is what you are looking for.  I enquired with IM last year and I was surprised to learn to could find me a donor which matched my African background and there would be no waiting list as long as I was not bothered about blood type etc.  The only thing was there would be not guarantee of a back up donor (ie a donor which they could use if my donor failed to produce eggs).  I think if you were to go with a Caucasian donor then you would always be offered a back up donor if you were to go for a fresh cycle.


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## Rose39

Wishing - I'd also suggest considering Cape Town if you are looking for an Asian egg donor - Nurture and other egg donor agencies used by Cape Fertility Clinic have donors from a wide range of ethnic backgrounds. I imported donor sperm from the US (via Denmark!) which the clinic is fine with (although CFC does have its own sperm bank also if you are looking at minimising costs). Hope this helps!

Sima - how are you doing hunny?   

Bluey - congratulations on being PUPO!!   

Sarah - not long to go, so excited for you!   

Mini - so sorry that your body isn't behaving!   Hope that you're able to find a way forward in your decision making hunny   

AFM - keeping fingers crossed that my scan is ok tomorrow, then packing for Saturday (with a nasty bit of Lit in between!). IL's went fine, so one step nearer! Am not getting my hopes up, but trying to keep positive....

Rose xx


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## RichmondLass

Hi Wishing - depends what you mean by Asian.  In the US I believe they usually use this term to refer to people from China and thereabouts.  In the Uk we use the term mostly - but not exclusively - to refer to Indian and Pakistani people.  More East Asian I guess.

Correct me if I'm wrong.  Thought I'd mention if you wanted to go down the specific route! I'd hazard a guess that in the UK you'd find it easier to find an Indian or Pakistani donor and easier in the US to find a Chinese donor. If it is 'UK style Asian' you are after there are a number of clinics in India I believe from reading elsewhere on FF but don't think any of the singlies have been

In Barcelona I'm not sure - 50/50?  I went to IM and can corroborate what Sima says about short waiting list and wide variety of ethnic backgrounds.  i wasn't specific but the clinic chose to match the egg donor to my hair, skin and eye colouring and the sperm donor was pot luck!  Luckily G has inherited the sperm donor's gorgeous dark brown eyes.  

There is a big price difference between IM and reprofit.  IM prices closer to UK prices about £8k basic treatment price plus drugs, any extras and then travel and hotels etc.



RLxx


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## jasper1

Hi - I,ve just joined the site and thought I would say hello . I am now looking seriously at donor eggs (am single and now the grand old age of 45). I,ve known for a long time that I couldn't use my own eggs but it has taken a long long time to really come to terms with it ....going into early menopause three years ago was the final straw but have had problems for years. I hope you all don't mind me joining but being single makes the whole process rather a lonely one. x


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## ♥JJ1♥

WFAA- have you considered India or Thailand for an Asian donor, I know it is a long way from the US but they are much cheaper and also would have Asian donors.


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## wishingforanangel

jji- was thinking of that in regards to asian donors. i suppose i wasn't looking to fertility clinics in asian only because i thought of adopting a child there. appears that adoption agencies in asian countries are really strict about not living with depression, being single, being under a certain age, etc. so thought i wouldn't qualify for any of the clinics in asia.

thanks for the thought though. i'm trying to go with im in barcelona and have a phone consult with them next week. i guess if things don't work out i may try an asian country but i get the feeling asian countries maybe strict and really unforgiving about certain things.


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## ♥JJ1♥

I thought that the Asian countries may be less formal with regards to fertility clinics, there is a gay male couple on the LGBT thread who have had surrogacy in Thailand and numerous FFer have cycled in India.

I cycled in Spain and don't recall them asking many questions

L x


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## wishingforanangel

i guess it is possible the fertility clinics in asia are less formal than adoption agencies but for some weird reason i just assumed they were stricter than the clinics in europe about certain things. i suppose it is because i'm chinese and well as a culture it is very closed minded at times. don't know if that makes sense.

but i'm hoping things will work out at in barcelona....


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## Betty-Boo

My GP's friend used a clinic in athens - got a good mixture of asian and other donors.  I'm now considering them too ...

altho did have bloods done recently as thought was menopausal - FSH is now down to 3.8!!  So having amh redone and if that was tested incorrectly by glasgow there will be blood to pay!!  After all it was that test which forced me down the DE route ... Through much heart break and counselling let alone failed cycles...

Big hgus x


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## ♥JJ1♥

Mini I really hope that your FSH is that low what was your oestrodial as they need to be read in conjunction as and elevated oestrodial's can surpress FSH.
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=246240.msg4007245#msg4007245


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## Betty-Boo

Aparently that was fab too - can't remember the exact level but GP was really pleased (she's ex obs and gynae).  
Just had another AMH taken so will wait and see what that has to say ... 

Thanks for the info JJ x


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## wishingforanangel

hopefully things will be better on this blood test for you mini minx but to be honest i still don't quite know all the abbreviations and blood tests are so i'm not sure if i am suppose to be wishing the best for you. hope you don't mind my homer simpson dooh moment as i get really confused with all this stuff sometimes.


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## Betty-Boo

Aww thank you honey ... am hoping that it hasn't changed - otherwise would totally mess the head up!!!

Big hugs everyone x


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## Betty-Boo

AMH came back as 2!!  Now I know that's still classed as non existant - however when I first had it tested over 3 years ago I do wonder if it was higher and I may have been able to try at least a proper cycle with my own eggs .... Seriously        off with GCRM!!!!  

Ah well ... time to move on and look to future.. x


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## indekiwi

Mini,      


That's seriously poor on behalf of your clinic - I'd be severely p'd off were it me.   


A-Mx


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## Betty-Boo

Thanks inde honey - everyone thought it was a bit strange to come back 0.0 but GCRM assured me it was correct ... having met Ash's beautiful twins am starting to come back round to the baby thing ..... taken its time!!


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## Rose39

Mini - heck what a rollercoaster you've been through! I'd also be annoyed with the clinic.

Midnight - how are you doing hunny? Have been thinking of you since we got our negatives at the same time. Are you planning another cycle?    

Bluey - so sorry to hear of your m/c. It's just so unfair after everything you've been through. Have you been given any indication of what went wrong from the clinic? Hope that you feel stronger soon hunny.   

Violet - how are you doing? Are you planning for your next cycle?   

Jasper - welcome!   

Wishing - how are things going with Barcelona? How did your consult go?

AFM - yet more bad luck I'm afraid (and I didn't think it could get worse!). I learned last week that I should never have gone ahead with the FET due to serious genetic issues with the embryos on the male donor side.

On a positive note, I've found a lovely new egg donor via the donor agency - have gone primarily on the recommendation of the agency owner who knows the donor personally, which makes a big difference to me. So hopefully I can plan for another cycle in December/January. At least it will be hot and sunny in Cape Town so I'll get a shorter winter! 

I also need to think about losing the half a stone that I usually put on each cycle (due to the steroids etc) which I'm not looking forward to, but my clothes are tight!

Rose xx


----------



## wishingforanangel

gosh. everyone seems to be having a bit of a rough moment right now. i was feeling a bit sorry for myself because there is office politics going on at work which made me really depressed and stressed. of course that makes me want to isolate myself...

trying to be positive and hoping the best for everyone but sometimes I wonder if i'm being superficial when i feel down.

rose39 - my phone consult with im in barcelona went well. was hoping to do a cycle in november 2010 but then the doctor wanted a couple of tests to be done so i was thinking maybe january 2011. but it seems that one of my tests turned out fine so maybe november 2010 is back on. course i think it helped that i sent more money than was required for the initial consult so i think the clinic knew i was serious about proceeding with the cycle. praying for it to work though cuz i'm not sure if i can handle any more bfn.

rose glad you found a new donor for your cycle in cape town although i realize it sucks about gaining weight when you are on a cycle. crossing my fingers for the best of luck for you in december/january. 

shorter winter? is winter that wacky in the uk? just wondering as i hope to maybe move to london in the future but not sure if i could leave my rugrat nephews and niece behind.


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## midnightaction

*mini *What a nightmare that your results have come back showing that you may of had a chance with your own eggs before. I have never had my AMH tested for this exact reason, I don't want to know what it is because if it comes back showing me I might still have a chance with my own eggs then I would just keep going time after time and throwing good money after bad and never achieving a pregnancy. At 30 years old I may still have a chance with my eggs but after nearly 7 years of trying i don't have the energy to keep trying with my own any more and want to give the better option a try.

I'm glad your back in the baby zone and I hope that your ready to get going with treatment 

*Rose* How awful the situation with your sperm donor is, I hope you get some answers from the sperm bank about this as that really is a horrible situation to be in. So happy that you have found another egg donor and are ready to get going again, and I hope and pray that this cycle gives you the positive result you deserve. 

*wishingforanangel- *All of our seasons blend into one in the UK, it is supposed to be the first day of Autumn today but it is sunnier then it has been through most of the summer, so who knows what is going on !! 

AFM Well I am back out to Brno for another cycle of Donor Embryos on the 7th November. It was my intention to try and wait until early 2011 so I could save up some money, but I just couldn't wait that long, I have already waited far too long, and now I just want this to happen. This is cycle number 9 for me and I promised myself i would never get to double figures, so I am hoping that this is the one 

Big hugs to all 

Sarah xx


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## wishingforanangel

i understand what you mean midnightaction in terms of weather. in southern california we only get more often then not summer only with brief bouts of insanity because we can't handle rain for the life of us.


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## greatgazza

Hi girls

not sure if anyone still around on here?  How is everyone?  Is DFET done with any kind of sedation?  I read somewhere on here about someone being told to take a nightie to walk down to theatre, is that right?

GG x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

GG - no, DFET is just like IUI - no sedation needed. They use a speculum and then insert the catheter and push the embies in through that...
You don't need a nightie (that's just for people having EC with own eggs...) - you will go into the room, get undressed (bottom half only) behind a curtain, then the nurse gives you a sheet to wrap round you and you get up on the bed..afterwards they leave you to lie down for about 10 mins then the nurse comes back and helps you up etc, you get dressed and off you go
all very quick and easy   

Suitcase
x


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## greatgazza

thanks Suity

I have also just been looking on the bridge website (as someone told me they have genetics counsellors) and in their IVF section it says that if you have blastocytes transferred you need injectable progesterone support not just the pessaries.......Stepan has only mentioned the pessaries but also said that they will guarantee grade 1 blasts.... did you have blasts?  And with injectable progesterone or is that a just a different clinic thing...

Also, I have asked him about 4 times to resend me that email in a totally new message but he keeps sending the same thing and i can't bl***dy open it so don't know what he is telling me to do!! Grrrrr.

GG x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

how annoying re email. do you have another email address you can forward it to? I found if I couldn't open it in Hotmail I could open it in my work email...I then read it and deleted of course - not something I would have wanted work to read!

yes, I had blasts - frozen on day 5 after a fresh cycle  but I'm not aware of the injectable progesterone being the rule for blasts - I was on it for 2 reasons - firstly because on my first 2 IVF cycles using pessaries I bled very early (9-10 days post transfer) suggesting that I was not absorbing the pessaries very well, and secondly because I have high NK cells (immune issues) and extra progesterone is recommended for this

the injections tend to be more effective for some women, especially those who tend to bleed early and/or have immune issues
if you want them, I'm sure Stepan will prescribe...the Czech equivalent is agolutin, or you can ask for a gestone script and get it filled in the UK
note injections are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive than pessaries and somewhat unpleasant to use (they are intramuscular so you have to inject into your buttocks and the needle is rather thick! is totally do-able but if not needed then not worth putting yourself through it..)

hope this helps
Suitcase
x


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## greatgazza

Do they tend to only transfer 1 or do you have a choice of 2?  Does it make a difference to how many they transfer if they are transferring blasts?  I believe that with a woman of my age transferring 2 could increase the risk of mc but in some ways i think i might like to have 2 transferred as it feels like it will have more success to start with if that makes sense, not an easy decision to make due to the risks, but perhaps i won't have a decision to make and the clinic will make it for me?

GG x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

GG - before you have your transfer they should talk to you about this and give you the stats on success rates and % likelihood of twins if you have 2 transferred and then offer you advice - although it will ultimately be your decision
I've not heard that transferring 2 increases the risk of miscarriage though?

If they don't take you into the office and have this conversation with you, then ask to see a doctor to talk it through first before transfer - then you can make an informed decision

I have always had 2 transferred because I have had so many failed attempts....I actually did not discuss the likelihood of twins with Reprofit this time as I truly believed it wouldn't work and I only had 2 back because I thought it might increase the chances of 1 working...in fact I would have had all 3 frosties put back if they had thawed them (bit of a miscommunication there)
But I'm not unhappy about it being twins and although it's a daunting prospect being single I don't regret having 2 transferred at all...but as I say, you have to make the right decision for you 

best of luck
Suitcase
x


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## greatgazza

Gosh so would they have transferred 3 then if the other had thawed out too and you had requested that?  Thought a lot of clinics had limits that would probably be 2.

I think it was the doctor I saw at the Copenhagen Fertility Center who said that there was a bigger risk of miscarriage with multiples, actually it might not have even been an age thing, just that with more there could be more complications/risk of mc.

In some ways I think I would quite like twins, would be terrified and daunted as you say, but then i wouldn't have an only child and the 'trying to have a sibling' factor would be taken out of the equation when i would be even older etc and have to go through more tx and stress etc....

Hmmmm

GG x


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## suitcase of dreams

yes, because I am 40 and have had several failed attempts including 2 failed attempts with DE, they would have transferred 3 if I had insisted on it (which I thought I had done via email but for whatever reason they only thawed 2...they did offer to thaw the other one if I could wait for 1-2hrs but I had a return flight to catch and didn't want the stress so just went with the 2...good job as triplets would def have been too much!)

I think there are def more potential complications with twins, and having just googled it, it does seem that risk of miscarriage is higher with twins, especially identical ones (which mine aren't) - glad I didn't know this before as would have been even more stressed out than I was anyway!!
And then the risk of premature labour is higher, and the pregnancy overall tends to be tougher...

But I think your best bet is to discuss with Reprofit what the chances of twins are and what the success rates are with 1 vs 2 blasts and then see how you feel about what is right for you

Suitcase
x


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## greatgazza

Wow, triplets can you imagine??!!!!

Phew, I'm really glad I'm passing on that information now and not bringing it to your attention before any treatment!! Kinda wish i didn't know tbh and would just be blissfully asking for 2....Oh well, i'm not even there yet so i'll try and worry about that little nugget of concern nearer the time rather than a whole two years in advance like i usually do.....

GG x


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## greatgazza

Just pondering and thinking aloud really.....when does it become twins and when are they identical/non-identical...

if both embies stick and grow that would be non-identical twins right?  And if only 1 embie stuck and grew but divided that would be identical twins right?

GG x


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## suitcase of dreams

did a bit more reading up and it seems the risk of miscarriage with twins is actually what they call 'vanishing twin' syndrome...where you see 2 sacs/heartbeats but then lose one before 12 wks. I did know about that and until 12 wks I resisted thinking it was twins at all....in fact am only now getting to grips with it after 20 wk scan!

yes, identical twins are one sperm fertilising one egg, the resulting embie then splits into two....these are always (obviously when you think about it, same sex twins) whereas fraternal/non identical is 2 sperm fertilising 2 eggs.....so can be same sex or boy/girl

see what Reprofit say about chances of twins if 2 embies put back - there have been quite a few sets of twins from Reprofit recently, especially from DE....

Suitcase
x


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## ♥JJ1♥

GG It is  personal decision and keep in mind that you take on the m/c risk of your donor, however I have been warned about the more you have being transferred increasing the risk of mc as I have a dodgy linning and was told never to have more than 2 transferred despite being over 40.


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## Betty-Boo

GG - I nkow I've been thinking of having just the 1 transfered.  Reducing the stress on my body with factor v as this does tend to lead to late mc.  
It's  minefield! x x  And as JJ said - very personal x x


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## greatgazza

thanks girls

Mini unfortunately i don't actually know yet whether i have factor V.  I had bloods done twice for it as the first time they said it hadn't been requested (rubbish!) then when i saw the consultant he looked it up and said it hadn't been done again or not reported on yet.  He said that often in the lab they just don't bother to do the factor v test unless there is enough explanation about why from a consultant...    he made jokes about how they make the blood forms into paper aeroplanes or just put them in the bin....joking, i know (well i think), but he was serious when he said they often ignore them!! how can they do that, so outrageous?!  

Also, when i asked about DHEA supplements he said 'i don't believe in witchcraft', i mentioned 'mini ivf' at create etc and the hidden c test at serum and he said it was 'bullsh*t'  !! unbelievable.  and this is the w***ker who also didn't give me any information about my chromosome issues or the serious risks and said i would be ok to continue as long as the sperm donor didn't carry the same thing.....that's absolute nonsense, even if the donor was clear my chromosome issue means i have a pretty high risk of either miscarriage or abnormality or a baby with the same issue who will have problems when they consider having children.   

I guess i really need to find out if they reported on the bloods for factor V this time to help me make a more informed decision. my god is there anything else as stressful as this....    If they haven't and i need to have them taken for a 3rd time they won't be back before i go for DFET (2nd Dec).  This is all so hit and miss how i'm doing it this time as different things keep cropping up to completely floor me.  But i'm booked and i'm going ahead so i'm just going to have to hope for some divine inspiration as how to best proceed/make decisions.

Mini - were you given any stats/%ages of how risky it would be to have 2 transferred, were you strongly advised against it?  I was erring on the side of asking for 2 but now my head's marshmallow again.... I guess whatever decisions we make we just have to decide at some point to really 'go' with them and 'let go' of the other options and stop with the 'what ifs'...  sorry, gotta go, think the men in white coats are at the door.... 

GG x


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## wishingforanangel

wishing you the best of luck greatgazza on december 2.


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## Betty-Boo

GG - to be honest I wasn't given any advice re how many to transfer and transfered 2.  As much as I like reprofit I do feel that they did put me at great risk by putting me on estrogen for about 6 weeks to synch body with donor... the main cause of blood clots!!  I've got previous history of multiple pulmonary emboli and was just told, take clexane for 2ww... not good enough to be honest and will do things differently next time.  I'll not  put my life at risk again.  All consutlants and GP's have their area of expertise and good & bad points ... its trying to find someone supportive.  
The one thing that does stop me in my steps is the fact that I had no frosties from my fresh DE cycle - 2 young donors and 6 embies - left with nothing ... do question the freezing side of things... would hate to put 1 back and have no embies make it to freezing .... its a minefield x x x
Take care x


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## greatgazza

Wishingfor, thanks for your thoughts

Blimey Mini that does sound pretty risky.  I know there is an issue with going abroad/to reprofit in that you have to kindof be your own doctor to a certain extent as you're not 'under' a consultant as it were but you would hope they'd pick up on something like that when you tell them about it.......did you only find out later on what a risk it was?

Hmm i was thinking that with factor V extra meds didn't need to be taken till the later stages of pregnancy so i was kinda hoping that if i did get pg this time i would have enough time to have my results and my gp/a doc over here to advise me and prescribe things if i did have it.  Didn't know things were needed as soon as the 2ww.  Need to call some doctor or other tomo (not really sure who as recurrent mc consultant isn't interested anymore, his secretary hasn't called me back even tho i left a message saying i was very distressed, my HSG results from last week are probably going to end up floating around the ether somewhere as it was requested after my appt with the consultant and so on and so on blah blah blah).  

Do you/does anyone know if the drugs for factor V aren't too detrimental as if i can't find out whether i have it in time it might be worth me taking them anyway until i do know?  If they can't really do too much harm i might see if my GP can prescribe them in time for me this cycle.  Is it clexane and aspirin you take?  God, i really am making a hash of this and if it is successful it really will be amazing.

That's what i hate about this rollercoaster it's horrible being on it but i feel like i can't get off.  Feel like i've 'started so i'll finish' kinda regardless of whether i'm doing things in a rash, cack-handed way, which i am, but feel compelled to continue regardless....guess this is what being desperate can do to you  

GGx


----------



## Betty-Boo

GG - if you do have factor v that will mean cleaxne possibly twice every day for 9 months then another 6 weeks after birth.  You will be monitored as at high risk of pre-eclampsia!  Joy eh!!  Once pregnancy is confirmed, the NHS should provide the clexane as  its a life threatening conditon.  Not only the baby but more importantly yours.  
Reprofit did know my history - and I kept asking about the estrogen and clexane, but they dismissed it.  So I took baby aspirin - however have since been informed by a medical professional that baby aspirin, altho thins blood is not ideal for those with factor v and taking extra hormones as does not necessarily stop clotting.  
Why do you think you may have factor v?  If your GP suspects this I'm really surprised he's not got you tested?  My consultant in the UK insisted as I'd had the multiple PE previously so he needed to know why before I went down the ivf route.  Clexane is expensive and not sure they'll prescribe it if not diagnosed.  If they go by the book they don't have to until pregnancy is confirmed.  
Good luck honey ... I'd push it with your GP.  I know I saw the haematologist too and had umpteen blood samples taken.  
Take care x x x 
Remember there are plenty of women who actually have factor v and don't know it!  They have successful pregnancies without any complications .... x x


----------



## greatgazza

Thanks Mini

The reason i want to know if i have it is cos i found out only very recently that one of my sisters has it and her two daughters.  I have had bloods taken to test for it twice but for some reason the lab are just ignoring them and not doing the test!! For some reason the recurrent mc consultant said they often ignore them and throw them in the bin or make paper aeroplanes out of them!! I think he's joking about the aeroplanes bit but not that they, for some reason, ignore them and don;'t report on them.  Even if i can get more bloods done now the lab take 3 weeks (if they actually do them) so i won't know before i have my tx.

GGx


----------



## Betty-Boo

Honey tell reprofit of your family history and if you can take clexane on 2ww .... once pregnancy is confirmed I'd push it with your GP.  I'm disgusted that he's saying lab has thrown the sheets away - that's totally out of order and I really can't believe a lab would do that.  
Think clexane cost me about £5 per injection - I paid for my first lot through the 2ww ... next time I'm hoping GP may be able to prescribe - she does if I'm travelling for any distance.
All the best honey x x x


----------



## greatgazza

Thanks mini

I'm waiting for my GP to call this afternoon/eve.  Is it worth me taking aspirin too, even if i can't get the clexane?  If it is when is it taken and what dose?

I don't believe my sister had any complications with her pregnancies and two of my other sisters don't have it but i guess that perhaps doesn't make any difference as to whether i could have it or not and what the issues would be with me?

Just spoken to my GP and he's going to chase the lab but he said it's not quite as simple as just taking aspirin 'just in case' as there are other factors to consider etc etc.  Also managed to speak to elusive consultant's secretary who said there's something in the letter to the consultant haematologist.  God i just feel so in the dark here and left dangling and don't even know who to chase/call as no one seems to have any answers or really be helping  

GG x


----------



## Betty-Boo

Its horrendous the way they are treating you honey.  As for baby aspirin - there is one you can get from boots which is coated so kinder to tummy .. I took 75mg a day - but that was what I was advised to take by Reprofit.  However your GP may say otherwise.  It's never a good idea to self prescribe.  Like I said before a high population of women have factor v and have babies and don't even know!  Mine was highlighted after my illness caused by the pill.  
Hope you get some answers soonx x x


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## wishingforanangel

gg - wish i could help you with getting off the roller coaster ride. i'm having a hard time trying to get off myself.

 can't believe the stress you're going through with trying to get your lab results.

what is factor v?


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

WFAA- Factor V Leiden is a genetic issue that can effect clotting problems it is quite common in Caucasian pop http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factor_V_Leiden

GG i can't believe the way that the Drs are treating you- maybe you should remind them that all patients have the right to be copied into all letters and correspondence about you! so at least you will know what they are saying.


----------



## greatgazza

thanks girls

this just all seems a bit of a farce at the moment.  i don't really feel i've got the strength or tenacity right now to keep chasing things that are so inefficient and that SHOULD be getting done!!    

think i might just leave this all to the universe and hope that it all works out for the best..... it's just so draining when you feel like you're fighting such a huge machine like the NHS.  It makes you feel so small and insignificant cos it doesn't matter what you do or how much distress they cause you if they don't want to listen and don't want to do anything then there's bu**er all you can do about it.....  heyho, onwards and downwards as they say..... 

JJ how did your appointment go?  Any positive news for you?

GG x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

GG I am so sorry to her abour the stresses you are under trying to spek to someone. What is your GP like could you go back to him/her and ask them to fight your battle- after all GP's commission the services now!! S/he is paying for this service for you, also with pt choice you should have the right to choose a genetist that you want- I am not sure where you are based in the UK, what about UCL or the Institute of Child Health at Great Ormond Street- their genectics dept also do satelite clinics, (as they used to do one in Trust's colposcopy dept!!).

My appt went well I have posted about it on the other thread. 
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=234722.324
Thanks for your good wishes

L x


----------



## greatgazza

Hi girls

Thanks JJ.

On a slightly different note....what day of your cycle have any of you had DFET?

Stepan has scheduled mine for day 20, but i have read of it often being day 18 or 19.  How much difference does this make?

Past IUIs i had tx on day 13 and day 14, which could mean that my transfer could be around 6,7,8 days post ovulation?  (he said it's blasts so that's a 5 day transfer isn't it).  Doesn't that mean it's actually too late?  Or, at least, not as good as it could be and i will have missed the right 'window'?  My hotel and flights are booked.....

God, something else to panic about now, i hate all this i'm feeling sick with fear and dread most of the time at the moment and really struggling  

GGx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

GG - day 20 is fine, it's between 18-21 for DFET usually....take a deep breath and relax....  
easier said than done I know and there's always something to worry about with this fertility journey, but it will all work out OK timing wise I'm sure
take care,

Suitcase
x


----------



## greatgazza

Thanks suity i was hoping you'd be around!! 

Noticed on another post of yours, but it's not in your signature, that you had PGD on one of your cycles and the embryos were abnormal    I take it that was with your own eggs?  And was that one of the reasons that lead you to the DE decision?

GG x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

yes, was my last attempt with OE at Reprofit. got 8 eggs, 6 embryos were OK for PGD which is done on day 3 I think. I went in on day 5 to the clinic for transfer and they told me all 6 were significantly 'abnormal' and there was no point transferring any embies.
had suspected I had egg quality issues anyway from previous cycles - always got good number of eggs but few good embies and lots of BFNs plus one BFP which miscarried - so all indicators of quality problems
nonetheless was huge shock at the time. was told after that my chances of success with OE dropped from 30% (standard for my age at the time - 39) to less than 5%
that was what made me switch to DE, although I knew there could still be a chance with OE and I might have found the one good egg/embie eventually, I just didn't have the emotional/physical/financial resources to keep going (had been ttc for 2yrs at this point) with such a low success rate

Suitcase
x


----------



## greatgazza

Gosh, really difficult journey.  That's why i think (i really hope   )  i'm making the right decision with DFET, i really don't think i could cope with the stress and potential heartache, think it would finish me off.

Back to the factor V farce.  My GP called and has chased up the sets of bloods that haven't been reported on....apparently from having the blood taken at watford general hosp they get sent to hemel hempstead hosp and then onto the John radcliffe in oxford..... i think at HH hosp they refused the test based on their criteria for carrying them out but didn't bother to tell me, my gp or anyone...... useful.

My gp can't speak to the consultant haematologist until monday where he may get told that i have to go privately as even though i'm ttc, have family history of it and may need meds they may not do it for 'fertility purposes' as trying to get pregnant is not a definite, it's a possibility so there is no risk, if i were ACTUALLY pg however they may do it.....after the horse has bolted somewhat methinks, but why am i at all surprised....

my GP will let me know more on Monday but i said if i can't fight this case would i have to go privately which i would.  I just called the local Spire (used to be Bupa) hospital for prices and the phlebotomist first told me it could be about £300 to £400 pounds but she didn't really know.  I was nearly sick.  I asked how i could find out how much it actually costs as £3-400 is a bit vague and really not much use if you're plucking it out of the air and not sure (god some people, d'oh!  ) So she said she'd call me back.  She did and it's actually £160-£180, rather huge difference love  .  But, still bloody expensive!! Am i a bit naive and this is how much one single blood test can cost?  I know consults etc and tx are pricey but a blood test??!  Wow, madness.  Any thoughts on any other labs/ways to get it done?

GG x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

GG - yes, blood tests really are that expensive unfortunately. Think I paid close to £1000 for my initial immune tests and every time I re-test (every 3-4 weeks) it costs me £385...mind you that is to send the blood to Chicago for analysis (NK cell testing only done by a lab in Chicago for some reason)
Doesn't surprise me that it's £180-200 - not sure there will be a better option, specially as to get it done through a consultant (eg Dr Gorgy who does immunes) you'd have to pay a consultation fee on top (currently £150 with Dr G)
Sorry it's all such a stress....really hope you get things sorted soon   

Suitcase
x


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

GG could you get the test done via your GP's request (you need a dr to request the tests so that they send the results to a Dr) at The Doctors lab, HCA or the Path Lab in Harley street- I think the actually charge for phlebotomy is £20 but the tests differ, as Suity said immunes cost £780-1500 for a full panel.  Saying that my donor's partner takes all my bloods at home and we deposit them in the lab still have to pay the blood letting fee !!


----------



## greatgazza

Hiya JJ

the tests have been requested via my GP so looks like i'll have to pay wherever i go.  I probably put a bit of a spanner in the works cos i asked my GP to request them as soon as i found out my family's history, if i'd waited till i saw the fertility nurse prior to my appt with recurrent mc appt and told them my family history perhaps if the request had come from a consultant it would have carried more weight.  Who knows, in this madness that is the fertility lark.  

In some ways it's probably a drop in the ocean compared to what some of you girls have paid so far, but it's all relative.  I read thru a thread the other day that someone pointed me in the direction of as I'd seen their DH had balanced translocated chromosomes (what i recently found out i have) and if this couple had wanted PGD and IVF over here to screen for this (and hadn't got funding), one cycle would have been £8 to £10,000.....they got funding, thank god, but while they weren't sure they had their house on the market and everything, ready to downsize and do whatever it took....

it's all pretty mad really.

is your donor's partner a phlebotomist or medical or has he just learned how to find veins?  Hey, could i take my own blood and send it all round the world??!  Only joking.  But interesting to know.  Which part is the 'blood letting' fee?  

GG x


----------



## wishingforanangel

thanks jj for explaining the factor v thing.

gg - yes this is pretty insane thing isn't it - the whole fertility treatment.

thankfully i think i'll be getting off this roller coaster soon, or at least i hope i will. course i'm not sure if i want to get off either being that i'm 99.9999% this is going to be my last cycle with fet in december or january. 

better be off to run to the restroom (loo) so i can get ready to get my meds from the pharmacist/chemist.


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

phlebotmoy is the blood taking (we are all nurses) until a few years ago (well untill ARGC stopped it!!) the lab would take the NK cell bloods and then Fed Ex'd it to Chicago and paid the RFU lab there $150 so all in all about £200!! but then the labs all refused to take the bloods so then the girls were forced to go through them!!
L x


----------



## greatgazza

can't remember who wrote 'it's a mad, mad, mad, mad world' (not sure how many mads there should be in there) but they are totally right.

it's all bonkers and has made me pretty bonkers too (well more bonkers)

Wishing for as you don't have a signature, from your last post i'm guessing you might be from the good 'ole US of A?  Did i get the 'restroom' thing right?  Actually i may be wrong cos you might be saying drug store and not pharmacist or chemist?  Also, said Ms marple (!) there must be quite a time difference unless you know about a great chemist we haven't discovered yet??!

What is making you think about stopping tx then?  Have you had quite a few treatments?  Hopefully you will be getting off the rollercoaster soon.  For the right reasons i.e. that you have some good news and you get a BFP.  I guess if you're having meds you must have a tx coming up soon? Where are you having tx?  Are you having DFET?  Sorry for so many questions, my ex always said i should have been copper! maybe i should have listened to him....about many things. Hey ho we live and learn.....sometimes just too late  

God that all sounded very maudlin.  Sorry, i'm just really not coping very well at the moment  

Struggling to find a light in this tunnel.  Bloody electricity's gone off!!

GGx


----------



## ♥JJ1♥

greatgazza said:


> Struggling to find a light in this tunnel. Bloody electricity's gone off!!
> 
> GGx


  It is hard but just keep there, never give up, as I look at it if I am not TTC with treatment there is only a 100% guarantee of not having a baby, even a 1% chance means that 1 woman in 100 is holding her baby and that 1 could be me!!!!


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## greatgazza

Thanks JJ  

And hugs to you too


GG xx


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## greatgazza

Hi girls

My question is about proven vs unproven....

I'm sure it's been talked about a lot on here but when i type either word in the search facility it doesn't bring anything up at all??

This is what Stepan has just emailed to offer me and i guess i was just so terrified about my own eggs being abnormal now i'm thinking 'well there's no guarantees with anything.....what if my donor has a problem with her eggs....'

"I can offer you three embryos - 2 grade 1 hatching blastocysts + 1xgrade 2 expanding blastocysts frozen on day 5 raised from these donors:
Female: born 1988, blood group 0+, blue eyes, blond hair 168cm/58kg, student
Male: born 1985, 0+, green eyes, fair haired, 184 cm/85kg, student
Both properly tested with negative results"

In my email preceding this i reiterated that because of my chromosome issues and my fears of the risks of my eggs being abnormal I said "2)  Because of my balanced translocated chromosomes and therefore my fear with using my own eggs I would prefer to have a proven donor so that I can be more assured the eggs are ok.  Is this donor proven?"

Of course he hasn't really answered this.... but at 22 this donor is unlikely to be proven is she.... and I would imagine that if she was he would have directly answered that particular question....God i hate this.

Again, i know it's only a decision i can make but i be interested to know what any of you took into account/considered when making this decision (if you have had to so far in your journey).  I feel nervous to turn it down in case there are no other options, but if it's reckless to go with unproven then i risk being reckless....

GGx


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## suitcase of dreams

GG hun,     - such a difficult decision and the eternal question of proven vs unproven!
This debate comes up over and over on the Reprofit boards and there is just no easy answer I'm afraid. Some women have got pg with unproven donors and not with proven, and vice versa. So of course everyone recommends what worked for them
You are right that the combination of young and proven is rare - many women request a young donor and are then worried when she is not proven
For what it's worth, my donor was 31 (which did concern my slightly) and had 1 child of her own...

Vs fresh cycle, the thing with donor embryos is that you already know the embies are strong in one sense because they have made to to 5 days to be frozen and hatching blasts grade 1 is excellent quality - in so far as quality can be judged without PGD etc. So of course there's no guarantee that they are chromosomally noirmal, but I'd say the chances are pretty good and it looks like a good option to me

BUT, if you are really concerned and if it will just nag away at you, then best to email back and ask again - do you have embryos from a PROVEN egg donor?

Best of luck with the decision - I found accepting the donor really hard, it's as if it was finally letting go of my last chance of having a biological child - even though I'd essentially already made the decision, actually accepting the donor made it all so real and that was quite daunting - but I wouldn't change it for anything now of course   

Take care
Suitcase
x


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## greatgazza

Thanks suity.  

As you say this is making it REAL.  And saying 'goodbye'.

I terrified myself even more last night by reading on here about women who'd had two embies put back and had horrendous stories so threw me into turmoil about that decision again..... Quite often with this too much information is a bad thing i think, complete overload and there will always be good and bad stories but until you have actually made a decision and come to accept it the lurching from one side to the other is excruciating.

I would imagine that the fact that Stepan side-stepped my question about it being a proven donor means she is not.  This donor could be 'me' at that age, but if i'd decided to donate eggs when i was younger i could have been giving dodgy ones and there would have been absolutely no indication that i wasn't in great health or had anything wrong.....

I think i may ask again about proven.  If they don't i may still go for it with what's on offer.

My god, i've never known anything so difficult.  These decisions are for the rest of our lives.

GG x


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## suitcase of dreams

GG - yes, it's very very hard and as you say, these decisions are with us (and perhaps more importantly, our children) for the rest of our lives. But that said, you can only do your best to make what seems like the right decision at the time. There are no guarantees, no definites in this up and down fertility journey, you just have to take in the information and different perspectives and then make the right choice for you and your family   

I know there has been one very unfortunate incident recently at Reprofit where someone doing fresh DE cycle got very poor embryos from her young (unproven) donor, but I do think this is an isolated incident - it's very rare to read/hear of this and generally most people seem to get good quality embryos - of course they may not always stick but this isn't necessarily the embryos - it's a combination of embryo and environment each time remember
Proven donors tend to be older so statistically the risk of 'damaged' eggs is higher. Unproven donors are younger, so statistically have more 'good' eggs - but of course this is just in general/the average and each and every individual is different

For what it's worth, the embies you have been offered sound very good. I would be very hesitant about having all 3 put back though - you really don't want to end up with triplets - the complications and risks are too high. So in your place I would personally go with the 2 expanding blasts....but as said, it's very much your decision hun

Wishing you all the best
Suitcase
x


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## greatgazza

thanks suity

I have just emailed Stepan to check whether they do have a proven donor embryo available and depending on what he says will take it from there.

I think i may go for these embies and like you say, i was planning on having 2 put back i think.  I certainly wouldn't risk three, but stuff i read on here last night was about women saying they would never ever have two put in again they would only ever have one put back after what they had been through.  But hopefully, those situations are also rare.  It would be good if there was some way of getting a chart on here listing (from everyone not just the singles) how many embies people put back and all the different outcomes, not very scientific i'm sure but might help people to easily see what has worked or not worked for others whilst they're trying to make their decisions.

I guess Stepan will talk through the number to put back when i'm there?  Can you remember from your chat, as obviously now you have twins, how high the incidence of twins with 2 embies going back is (either what Reprofit told you their incidence is or generally)?  I'm just worried cos i know from my IUI experience i met him for about a minute and a half and i really want a bit more time than that for going through this and discussing things!

GGx


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## suitcase of dreams

I actually never discussed incidence of twins with Reprofit! I'd had so many failed attempts at IVF both with OE and DE, and knew I had all these immune issues, that I truly honestly never thought I would end up with twins - I was putting 2 back to maximise my chances of 1 sticking...
I know it sounds a bit crazy/irresponsible when I write it in black and white like this, but after 3 years of failures, I was just so convinced it wouldn't work that I wanted to do whatever I could to optimise my chances. As I think I said elsewhere, I would actually have had all 3 put back if they had read my email correctly and thawed them all...of course now in retrospect I am so glad I didn't!

Been doing a bit of googling and it seems incidence of twins is quoted as somewhere between 25and 40% with donor egg IVF which is pretty high! But good to ask Stepan what he thinks Reprofit's data shows - trouble is they prob don't have very good records due to so many overseas patients - we are not obliged to go back to the clinic and tell them we are pregnant and with how many - so in many cases they may just not have the records..

What is it that people are saying about never having 2 put back? I'm assuming this is people who got pg with twins and then lost them? Yes, the risks are higher with twins in terms of miscarriage, losing one twin early, premature labour etc - but equally there are many many people who have quite happy and successful twin pregnancies. And equally people who lose one baby....

Suitcase
x


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## Betty-Boo

I did say about having 1 put back - very personal descision - but that was because of the strain on my body carrying twins with the factor v ... again like I say its personal.


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## greatgazza

The stories i was reading about women regretting having 2 put back was on the 'elective single embryo transfer' board.  Just a couple of heart-rending stories where a baby had defects so the woman had to have fetocide but then, possibly caused by the fetocide, miscarried the other twin too... and a couple of other similar situations.  But like you say there are both happy and sad stories in this game, the hell of all this is that we know sooooooo much more than we would if we were just in a relationship blithely and naively ttc....and wouldn't have half these things to think about and decisions to make cos mother nature would be doing it all.  Obviously if there were issues we would still have to come to terms with them and make decisions but information overload is a  complete head mash.  And it's not like we have a partner to mull things over and come to joint decisions with, or any friends/family who will 'get it' so very lonely at times as we all know...

I still don't know and won't know about my factor v status before i have tx.....even if i went privately test still takes 3 weeks and i'm off on 2nd dec!! think i'm going to have to trust the universe on this one and try and have some faith in something out there looking favourably on me....(not god btw, so not religious but quite spiritual).  my mum and dad are up there so if they've got any sway, have a word will ya    

Think i'm going to be like you suity, if i'm doing this i want the highest chance of success and that means putting 2 back.....i so hope that isn't a decision i come to regret but i think if i got a bfn i would always regret only having 1 put back.  Twins would be terrifying but in some ways would save having to think about a sibling later on, having more tx, being older, more stress doing it, more money etc and really if i'm going to be a mum i'd rather not have an only child if that's at all possible.

It will be so nice to hopefully one day have got to a place when these heart string tugging, life changing/life shattering decisions are all a thing of the past....

GGx


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## wishingforanangel

gg - yes i'm an american. i try to use the british words with my american ones being this is a mostly british board. also i guess being that i been to the uk 5 times in the last 2 years the uk sort of feels like home. 

yep i'm getting off this roller coaster ride soon. been through 6 cycles with 5 of them being with a very incompetent doctor here in the States. My last cycle will be with IM with embryo adoption through fet but with a possibility of a fresh double donor cycle.

also very sorry that you're having a hard time. i understand the feeling. if you would like pm me as i totally understand your feelings. i realize i'm not always on here especially on the weekends but i will try my best to help.


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## greatgazza

thanks girls and wishing for

sorry to hear you've had such a hard time.  i'm not sure how long i can do this, and i haven't done anywhere near as long as so many others on here but i feel it's already slowly doing me in, so i get where you're coming from. I really hope your next cycle will be the 'one' and you'll be getting off the rollercoaster with a happy ending    

Suity just had this answer from Stepan and think i'm gonna go with the young unproven donor but it just spooked me a bit that this donor could have been the same one you had!! I doubt it, but she's 31 and yours was 31 (wasn't she?) so i just suddenly had a mad thought.....possibly highly unlikely but you never know.

"Dear Emma
The most important in egg and embryo donation is age of female donor
So I can offer you embryos from proven 1979 born donor ( but statistically results will not reach success with embryos mentioned bellow)
Yours"

I still have to make a decision but hmmm......... how much 'sleeping on something' can one do before it becomes clear......

GGx


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## suitcase of dreams

GG - not impossible that it would be same donor as me, but very unlikely - they have so many donors there....
I do think S is right though, you are better with the younger unproven one as the embies are such good quality
I know your concern is primarily re genetic conditions etc, but even a donor proven once can go on to have eggs/embryos with genetic issues - every cycle is different....and at the end of the day statistically you have the best chance of 'good' eggs and quality embies with a younger donor

But just my opinion, you must do what you feel is right for you
  I know this is hard, but take it from me, once you are pregnant, you will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about!!

Suitcase
x


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## greatgazza

thanks suity

i've gone with the original younger donor offered.
 

GGx


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## Bethany915

GG - good luck with all your decision making   .  Just a thought on the one/two embryo question - am I right in thinking that (assuming your lining is ok), the most important factor as to how many embryos are likely to stick is the quality of those embryos / risk of chromosomal abnormalities etc?  If so, then with a younger donor, chances are much higher that the embryos will be good - and that would suggest that you are more likely to end up pregnant with twins if you have two put back in.  And, equally, that you have a good chance of ending up pregnant anyway, even if you only have one put back in.

If you would be happy with twins, then obviously you can have two put back without worrying.  Personally, if it were me, I would go for one - but that is because I already have a toddler and I don't think I could cope (financially or logistically) with twins as well!  Not unless I found a DH pretty quickly to help me out   .  Anyway, just a thought - and someone will hopefully come along soon to say whether my assumptions above are correct...

B xx


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## greatgazza

Bethany - you're obviously a night owl like me!

I would possibly think like you do, that with younger, good quality embryos then there is a high chance two will stick, but then Suity had 3 goes at DFET (i think?) before success on her third so if there is such a good chance of success then one would think it could/should happen on the first go.... i think it's all such a lottery really isn't it... i don't actually know if just the fact of our being older can affect implantation rates as well, regardless of good lining/good quality embies etc.  So far i don't believe i have any lining issues as such so you might think two should, by rights, stick but it doesn't seem to work like that does it.

I think twins would definitely be VERY hard work, even in a couple, even one baby is tough on couples so for us singlies it's even harder.  However, part of me wouldn't totally baulk at the idea of twins and it actually might relieve the stress and pressure further down the line of wanting a sibling when even older.  I'm thinking of having 2 put back as I, like Suity did, want the biggest possible chance of success as soon as i possibly can and i think if i had 1 put back that didn't work i'd always think 'if only i'd gone with 2'.  There's not really any logic that can be applied to all this is there, we end up having to go with our gut instincts and hope that that's the right thing to do.....  Never had to make so many decisions in my life and certainly not such difficult, important, life-changing ones....  I keep shouting 'i'm a celebrity get me out of here' but it's not working....   maybe it's because i'm not a celebrity.

Hmmm, time for some sleep perhaps.

GG x


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## suitcase of dreams

I had 2 fresh DE cycles both of which failed. The first in the UK the embryo quality wasn't that good, was a 3 day transfer and I wasn't that optimistic (donor produced lots of eggs but I think she was over stimulated and quality was low). The second at Reprofit I had 2 grade 1 hatching 5 day blasts transferred and was BFN

Hence why when I had the FET I had 2 (and would have had 3 if they hadn't misread my email) put back - I genuinely did it to maximise chances of 1 sticking around because it seemed like I had difficulties (for whatever reason) getting implantation, I totally was not expecting twins and didn't even discuss the possibility with Reprofit because I was so sure it would not happen for me at all....let alone that both would stick....

Now I am pg with twins although it's daunting, it's also wonderful. I knew all along I did not want an only child, so if this pg were not twins I know I would have felt compelled to try again, and having taken 3 yrs to get to this point and with the added complexity of needing very expensive immune tx (IVIG/intrallipids etc) the thought of that is pretty tough. So there are benefits to twins

There are also, I won't deny, additional worries. I bled on and off for the first 11 weeks which was terrifying and stressful. Until 12 weeks I refused to believe I was having twins because I was so scared one would be lost (very common to lose one in the early weeks) - so I was a complete mess emotionally. Having not had a singleton pregnancy I can't compare how I would have felt, but I have been so sick/tired/ill and only at 20.5 weeks did I start to feel even a little better. There is now the worry of premature labour and pre eclampsia and all that to face. Plus monthly scans/consultant appointments, and having to finish work much earlier because impossible to carry on to 36-38 wks with twins etc
Not to mention the cost of buying 2 of everything...

So pros and cons really, and everyone has to make an individual choice. I guess in my case I didn't really make a choice, and certainly not an informed one - I had no idea what the stats were for likelihood of twins from DE/DFET...I was so sure after so many failed attempts that it wouldn't work at all that I had applied to several adoption agencies, I only really went for the FET so as not to leave the embies on ice at Reprofit...so just goes to show happy endings can happen   

Best of luck, like GG says, I think you just have to go with your instinct and trust that it knows the right thing for you,
Suitcase
x


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## greatgazza

Suity, even though you didn't discuss the incidence of twins with Reprofit do you get any time when having this treatment to sit and talk to stepan/a n other doctor beforehand? I would like to have some sort of discussion with him about risks/rewards to 1 versus 2 (or even 3).  I'd really like to know what doctors would say about a 42 year old having1 or 2 put back, is the risk of miscarriage/issues higher with 2 than the risk of no implantation with one etc  If Stepan doesn't have time for any kind of discussion (as with this it's not like you get to see him at EC or any other time as well) then i would like to email him and try and elicit some thoughts before my tx.

GG xx


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## suitcase of dreams

yes, before tx you are taken into a room and have a chat with a doctor - it depends who is available on the day which one you see....this does give you a chance to ask some questions
however, since your questions rely a bit on them checking up some data and stats etc, I'd recommend also emailing Stepan in advance so you can get an initial idea, then discuss further face to face when you're there   

Suitcase
x


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## greatgazza

thanks suity, good idea.

another quickie, do we have to 'do' anything differently when having donor eggs?  Both the egg and sperm donor are the same blood type as me which is good but i just wondered as it's not our egg is there anything we need to consider healthwise to 'do' or to 'take'.  I'm not making much sense but is there just the normal risk of rejection that we would have with our own embryos or do we need to do anything special to help it along.

GGx


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## suitcase of dreams

Hi there,

No, there shouldn't be anything specific you need to do. Usual stuff applies re healthy diet, vitamins, folic acid, exercise (not over exercise but basically being fit and healthy)
And otherwise just the oestrogen for your lining and then progesterone from 5 days before transfer

But other than that, don't think there is anything 'special' needed   
Suitcase
x


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## indekiwi

Just a quick post to let those interested know about a Radio 4 programme tomorrow (Wednesday) night at 9 pm concerning epigenetics (where - and forgive the rough description - the environment in which the embryo develops has an impact on which genes are turned on or off within the embryo).  I think it's a generic discussion rather than a tighter reference to fertility tx using DE, but I would imagine that there will be several take-aways for those undergoing DE tx.  

A-Mx


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## ♥JJ1♥

Thanks Inde - wil try and listen out to it

L x


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## Betty-Boo

Thank you Inde - will try and make time to listen to it x x

How are you And poppet and little un? x x


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## indekiwi

Mini, all good here - we keep each other smiling despite the weather and some illness blips.   

JJ1, just seen your post on the All Women thread - there's life in those ovaries yet!   

A-Mx


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## Betty-Boo

mmmm.... Confused.com            

Had a fab consult with my old clinic in Plymouth - more than happy to support me whilst I cycle at Reprofit - however a new clinic in Cardiff is now importing eggs!!  So I could go with them and only import the number I want .... Yep risk when they defrost etc  and have to look at new donor - but does seem so tempting - especially with the factor v etc ... Reprofit as much as I like them haven't taken it into account ... Going to pop up to Cardiff for open day this month....  Very tempted....
Any thoughts??

mini x x


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## ♥JJ1♥

mini that is good news what is the cardiff clinic called?


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## Betty-Boo

Hi JJ Here's a link:

http://www.crmw.co.uk/index.php

There's nothing on the website at the mo - my cons is part of the team and its just been set up ... as soon as I have any info (hopefully very soon) I can email you what I have! Sounds very tempting - means I will have to right off wrigglies in Czech - but maybe someone else would want them?? Never know .. i was so gutted when I didn't have any embies for freezing last time - this sounds an attractive offer! Mmm will have to sleep on it.
Their open day is 23rd Jan.

Take care mini x

/links


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## Lou-Ann

Ooo mini, that sounds great   . Hope you get lots of info from the open day and hopefully have a plan in place very soon   

Lou-Ann x


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## ♥JJ1♥

That is interesting mini as when I was at CRM in London they mentioned that  another clinic had opened called CRMWales but it wasn't anything to do with them!
Wishing you luck


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## Betty-Boo

JJ there seems to be loads of clinics with the CRM add on - I'm now at SWCRM and was at GCRM - popular choice!!  I'll update oce I know more but looks like they are importing eggs direct from Russia to build up an egg bank as very few are coming forward to egg share now..... Hopefully will hear soon - will pop up to their open day though.  My cons said he'd go too.

All the best  - did read of your news on another thread - this journey is so set to test us x x x


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## Rose39

Mini - good luck hun! I didn't have a good experience using frozen donor eggs (in my most recent cycle), but other ladies at my clinic who used embryos from frozen eggs have become pregnant. I'd be asking specific questions about success rates with embryos from frozen eggs vs fresh and how freezing the eggs impacts the quality of the embryos. My backup donor's fresh cycle produced more than 10 blasts for the recipient couple and every mature egg went to blast after it was fertilised. I got the 12 spare eggs which had been frozen, but after they were thawed and ICSI'd, 5 fertilised and only 1 embryo was good quality - given that all the other mature eggs from this donor had created really good blasts in the fresh cycle, the freezing did seem to have a significant impact on the eggs that I received. This may be unusual, but I'd be asking very probing questions about the likelihood of success with frozen eggs, to understand where was the best place to spend my hard earned money!

Hope this helps hun - as this happened to me it makes me a bit cautious,  and I want your next cycle to be the one that works for you!

Rose xx


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## ♥JJ1♥

I supposed I echo Roses reservations my Spanish donors eggs were frozen/vitrified for me on ec day as my lining hadn't done it's thing - as usual, and when they were eventually defrosted and fertilised from the 16 of then 11 fertilised but then 9 died on day 2 and the others on the am of day 3. She was a proven ED. My UZk cons said it was the egg freezing that was most likely the problem. Saying that Ivi Valencia routinely use frozen eggs unless you specify fresh. 
Have a good ladies


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## Betty-Boo

Thank you all for your thoughts ... been going through my head too - just feel that after last time coming away with no frosties I was slightly concerned.  Plus they don't seem to take in to account the factor v side of things which is raising alarm bells and that those who 'think' they have immune issues just sk and are put on steriod etc without being tested.  Lots to think of ... thank you for your thoughts - it all helps! x x


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## Lillyan

Hi girls,
I know this thread has been inactive for a while but I've just read through it and wanted to join you if that's ok. I just had a follow-up appt with my clinic yesterday after a failed OE-IVF was told that this is the end of the road with my own eggs. I had thought as much, but to hear it was gutting. My ovaries are v badly damaged from endometriosis. Thankfully, I've had some time to prepare as had a bad FSH two years ago, and low AMH & antral follicle count a couple of months ago. I started making enquiries about embryo adoption last year and am now on the waiting list for Reprofit and have also been in touch with Serum. I'm just trying to make some decisions now about the best way to proceed - my biggest question is fresh vs frozen. I've read that frozen can be more successful in 'immune' ladies (I've raised thyroid antibodies), but I know that the success rates for fresh are higher in general so I'm not sure what's best? I haven't been tested for coagulation issues but my consultant recommended that I re-do clexane and steroids and aspirin, and also possiby intralipids on the donor cycle, as I did on the OE. I'm happy to go with this but I'm wondering re fresh vs frozen....

As I'm sure each of you are in the same boat, money is a concern. The last cycle was done using a loan, and I'm saving for the upcoming cycle myself. I can't really afford to do multiple cycles and am trying to cover all the bases and give myself the best chance of this working. The choice of clinic is also up for debate. I've been in touch with alot of clinics and have heard so much about both Reprofit and Serum. Reprofit is cheaper, but Serum seem to specialise in ladies with lots of issues - I'm not sure if I'm out of this category now as I'm no longer using my own eggs. My lining has always been good and recent hidden c is negative. I'm not sure if I should go with Reprofit at half the cost of Serum and at least have the chance of a second cycle should the first fail, or go with Serum for the extra attention to detail...would be very grateful for your thoughts.

I'm not sure where everyone is at at the moment but I wish you all the best
Lxx


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## indekiwi

Lillyan,   .  I well remember the consultation where I was told that there was only the minutest chance that I might fall pregnant using my own eggs - the grief was immediate and immense.    I am far beyond that point now and there is no longer any pain associated with the DE tx I went on to do - helped, no doubt, by the wee girl who now graces our family (I also have a five year old son).  Since I had all my tx in the UK, I am unable to help you on the Reprofit vs Serum decision.  The cycle that delivered my little girl was fresh, but there are plenty of successes on the singles boards for frozen DE cycles - from memory, Felix, Suitcase of Dreams and perhaps CEM?  I believe the success rates from frosties are lower than for fresh, but at my clinic, again from memory, I think they were quoting over 50% for fresh vs around 40% for frozen.

Anyway, welcome to the singles boards, and I'm sure a few of the others will be along very shortly to say hello and offer some input.  

A-Mx


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## suitcase of dreams

Hi Lillyan,

  at such a difficult time

re fresh vs frozen it's hard to draw concrete conclusions as the statistics can't be relied on - particularly as many overseas clinics don't get accurate data (lots of people simply don't inform them of a BFP/live birth)
as far as I can tell, they tend to quote approx 30-40% success rates with frozen vs 50-60% with fresh...but everyone is an individual and statistics can only give you an 'average' anyway
My fresh cycle did not work despite 2 grade 1 hatching blasts, but the subsequent FET did work and now I am expecting twins. Cem, LL and GIAToo have also all had success with FET

That said, I think you need to allow for 3 attempts, even with DE. Many women do get lucky and conceive on the 1st attempt, but it's also common for it to take 2-3 goes to get to a live birth. In which case, if money is an issue (and when isn't it?) plus you have immune conditions which adds to the cost of meds etc, then I would suggest FET is probably the right option for you. You will be able to afford 2-3 attempts for the cost of one fresh cycle, the waiting list is shorter, and you will have money spare for immune meds/drips etc as needed

I can't help with Serum vs Reprofit as I've only been to Reprofit. I have heard excellent things about Serum too though, so I think either would be a good option. Reprofit will support an immune protocol if you know what you want/need (will your UK consultant perhaps help with this?) 

Hope this helps and very best of luck to you   
Suitcase
x


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## ♥JJ1♥

Lillyan I'm an immune too, my understanding the frozen v fresh for immune ladies is more for oe ivf so that the immune response that flares up when you are having oe ivf stimming etc  has settled , and then the body is more settled when et is later which is usually frozen. With devif I don't think there is a dif - I might be wrong- but the body hasn't been through the process.
L x


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## Lillyan

Indekiwi, Suitcase & JJ1 thanks so much for your replies, and apologies for taking so long to log back on and thank you. I've been having a minor meltdown after that follow-up appt and coming to terms with loss of hope for my own eggs. I chose not to logon as I felt so low I couldn't offer support to anyone anyway. It really is a grieving process I think. I feel like I'm coming out the other side now, and have chosen to do DFET with Serum. Thanks so much again for your advice xxxx


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## indekiwi

Lillyan,



> I chose not to logon as I felt so low I couldn't offer support to anyone anyway.


I'll do you a deal. Support goes both ways - you can do the supporting when you feel up to it, and we can support you when you need it most. What do you reckon?  

Best of luck with Serum.    

A-Mx


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## Betty-Boo

Inde - that was put so well ..... you're a star!! 
Lillyan - we all have our ups and downs regrets and worries ..... some fab girls on here that just know without us having to even explain or open our mouths to speak!  Thank you    


Take care x x x


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## Lillyan

Thanks girls   You're right Inde, i think I just felt so low that I didn't want to spread my negativity, if that makes sense - this journey is so hard for everyone I didn't want to make it worse, but you're right, I'd go nuts if I knew someone that needed help and didn't ask - I'm just terrible at asking for help myself xxxx


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## indekiwi

Lillyan, I think many of us on these threads would completely empathise on the whole not wanting to ask for help malarkey.  The "inde" part of my user name stands for "independent" afterall.    It is, however, a tendency that gets sorely tested once you have sole responsibility for little ones, so see it as practicing for motherhood.    As for negativity, well, we all have our black moments, but it's amazing how others rally around and see us through.

Mini - Mwah right back at ya!  You must be getting close to getting going again.  Woo hoo!   

A-Mx


----------



## Betty-Boo

too close now ... still got head in sand (take it out every now and then for a look round... tehn think ... sod it better in the dark!)  Totally hormonal and        


    Sure it'll be all worth it in the end x x x


How are you?  And your gorgeous 2?? x


----------



## indekiwi

Mini, too exciting [squeals of excitement emanating from the west country  ]. Me and sproglets are less than pretty - two small people covered in / recovering from pox and the big hormonal one is now sporting a cold and three cold sores tentatively named Hughie, Louie and Dewey. 

A-Mx


----------



## carnivaldiva

Hope you ladies don't mind me joining in every now and then.

Basically I'm now waiting for my DE & DS lists to choose from to come through from my clinic in Cyprus.  Really excited about the whole prospect, but also a little sad that it didn't happen with my OE.

Hope all are well and good vibes to all who are going through treatment at the mo.


----------



## Betty-Boo

Carnivaldiva - know what you mean ...       
As soon as you get the details of your donors - the excitment will be immense!  I actually want to be my donor - she sounds fab! 5'5" and 8stone 10!!  I WISH!!     


Inde honey - hope all 3 of you are all feeling a lot better soon and much less spotty x x x


Big big hugs and hello from me x


----------



## GIAToo

Mini - you made me laugh - I was the same about my donor, 5ft4in and 9st 4lb - yes please!    Getting excitingly close for you      

Inde - hope you and yours recover from the spottiness soon    

Lillyan - good luck with your DFET.      It is hard to get over the news that your OE are not viable, but at least we still have options and you will see this option as a gift.  I do still have moments of sadness, especially when my Mum tells me how my 44 yr old cousin only tried for a month before she got pg with her third child   , but those moments are only fleeting. 

Hello to everyone else   
GIA Too xxx


----------



## carnivaldiva

Well I now have my donor and I'm due out in Cyprus beginning of May!!!  Actually can't stop smiling.  Have so much work to do, but now spending too much time thinking ahead.

I've been on the pill since 5th March (day 1 of AF), but I'm still bleeding slightly.  Normally my period only lasts about 4 days and very rarely 5.  Has anyone else experienced bleeding for longer while on the pill?  Hope it's just my body adjusting, as I'm only going to be on it for 2 months.

Take care ladies


----------



## indekiwi

Carnivaldiva, whoop whoop - you're on your way!  Can't help you viz the pill as I never used it as part of tx. I've read of others bleeding through the pill so I don't think it's uncommon, but I'm no expert on this. 

GIAtoo, Mini, thanks both - Poppet is pretty much back to his photogenic self while Alvina's scabs are disappearing by the truckload. Actually, that might be a _faint_ exaggeration, but you get the drift. The triplets look like they've taken up residence on my lip for the time being but I hope they sod off very soon.

A-Mx


----------



## carnivaldiva

I know what you mean about wanting to be your donor.  Mine is 22 and very thin.  At least bubba won't inherit my fat genes.  Fortunately she's tall (like me).

I'm really excited over the whole thing.  Just this blooming pill is still making me bleed slightly.  I haven't been on the pill since 1999 and I don't remember ever having this problem.  Looks like I'll have to go back to GP, but they're so unsupportive.  The only thing I'm worrying about now is that my lining won't be thick enough in May for ebryo transfer.

It's never easy is it?


----------



## Samac

Hi Ladies,
Hope you dont mind me joining this thread - this is my first post on FF !!

Its really comforting to be able to read other single womans stories and realise you are not alone.

I had an unsucessful DE & DS cycle in Spain (fresh) and about to try again early April providing final scan for womb lining gives the all clear.

Nothing prepares you for the negative outcome. You just think that by making the difficult decision to use donor eggs (and sperm) that its going to work. But this is just not the case.

Good luck to everyone.
XX


----------



## indekiwi

Welcome Samac!    There are several of us using both DE and DS - or who have done so and now - rather literally - have the fruits of our labour, so you're definitely not alone.    Indeed, Richmond Lass has a little man in her life courtesy of a Spanish clinic.  I hope you also come back from your next trip with a BFP - negative outcomes from tx always suck and it takes so much to pick yourself off the ground, dust yourself off and try again - so sending lots of     that next time will be your time.   

Carnival Diva, hope the bleeding has stopped and that things are back in synch again.    

Lillyan, how are you doing?   

Mini, not long now....  

A-Mx


----------



## Lillyan

Hey girls,
Thanks Inde - feeling alot stronger now - have plans to head to Serum the second week of May for initial scan & appt, hopefully returning for transfer in June if all goes ok. Still wavering on the frozen vs fresh issue, frozen costs 2000 in Serum & fresh is 3000, so for the sake of an extra 1000 euro I'm thinking I might go with fresh for the first attempt, but will discuss it with them in May. Hope you're all feeling better now & the all the spots have cleared up   

Carnivaldiva - brilliant news on your donor! Has the bleeding stopped? I always had breakthrough bleeding when I was on the pill but I'm not sure how much it affects the lining. Are you heading out for your transfer in May or is it for a first appt? Would they be able to advise you on the bleeding / lining?

Welcome Samac   I'm sorry to hear about your negative cycle   but it's great you're going again - what are your dates in April?

Hi GiaToo & MiniMinx

Lxx


----------



## Samac

Indekiwi - Thanks for your lovely welcome!
Your boy is very cute and congratulations on the birth of your girl. You must be busy!
Yes, I have come across Richmond Lass and her little man on other threads.

And Lillyan, thanks. Its so emotionally gutting to be told theres no chance with your own eggs. But you soon come to terms with accepting donor eggs and then you just want to crack on. I do get wobbly moments every now and again but I just think of all the positives.
My date is 4 April (3 day transfer) but need to get final scan the week before to check womb lining is ok. I worry its not and the cycle gets cancelled?
Not long for your appoinment in May.

Carnivaldiva - hope everything goes smoothly leading up to your transfer in May.

Mini Minx - Good luck.
GiaToo - Hope you and your little one are doing ok.

Hi to the other ladies.
xx


----------



## GIAToo

Hi ladies, big me post coming up    and not sure where to post as I have a LOT of things going 'round in my head.

As I approach the "magic" 12 weeks (this Friday with my nuchal scan on Monday) the reality that I am actually pregnant is sinking in. I am scared in all the usual ways that even if I was in a relationship etc I would be, but I am not 100% sure I have got my head around the DE thing and I am not clear in my head how I am going to approach it when it comes to telling.  I am definitely telling the child so no issues there, but it's just whether I am completely open with other people and whom.  I'm sorry, I'm sure there's been lots of discussion on this already....

Part of me wants to be "out and proud" and just be completely open about it, but there is still a part of me that feels, dare I say it, ashamed    that I could not use my own eggs, especially when so many people in my family have conceived with their own eggs well into their mid-forties   .  Then I ask myself, why on earth should you be ashamed?  Is that just a natural, maternal kind of response synonomous with the grief you go through?  I'm also scared of people's reactions, athough I would like to think that most of my friends are not Daily Mail readers!   

I am scared about how I'll feel about the baby, but am reassured by all those that have gone before me that I will just love the baby as if it were my "own" so I push those fears aside.

On another issue, I actually am feeling like I don't want to tell people I'm pregnant! What's that all about?  I think it's partly 'cos I don't want to answer questions about "who's the Daddy?" etc, but again I want to be proud of my decision to be a single mother by choice.

Finally, I had a dream the other night that I was in a relationship with a lovely man and I woke up feeling very sad and that this will NEvER happen for me now.  That's pretty pathetic isn't it, but I just can't see myself allowing myself to let a man into my life ever again and that makes me sad.  

Sorry for the long ramble, but I have been feeling like this for days and feel like I am about to burst.  I can't think of anything except being pregnant which is driving me crazy...at least last week I had a show to perform and that was lovely for taking my mind off things, but now I feel I must start facing up to the reality that is I am going to have a baby (even though I am still nervous about going full term!!)

Thanks for "listening"   
GIA Tooxxx


----------



## Betty-Boo

GIA too        


I think everything you are feeling and going through is all to be expected ... this is such a hard decision for us to make - not only the DS issues but having DEs too.  I know I undertook counselling prior to starting and this did help me work out what it is I wanted.  


As for never meeting that special man ... never say never ... he will come along and when he does he will be a wonderful person to help support you and baby wholly.  There won't be an obstinate  ex in the back ground and he can welcome you both with open arms and heart.     


As for the telling side .... so so personal .... I'm still a little unsure at the moment (saying that need my BFP first) but will consider counselling again to help me with that side of things.  Will def tell about sperm donor as I've used an open one.  Again this is such a personal choice and all we can do is tell you what we would do - not what to do.


I know my friend who had donor twins did wonder if she'd love them the same as biological children - as soon as she saw them she fell instantly in love.  They are simply gorgeous.


Take care and all the best for scan         


Mini x x


----------



## suitcase of dreams

GIAToo - it doesn't matter how prepared you think you are and how much counselling you have had, the reality of being pregnant provokes so many difficult emotions - it's partly the hormones racing around, and partly the realisation that after focusing entirely on _getting_ pregnant, you suddenly realise that you now need to deal with _being_ pregnant - two very different things!

re DE and telling/not telling - it's such a personal decision and only you will know what you feel comfortable with. I never felt exactly ashamed of having to use DE, but I did, and still do, feel very sad that I could not use my own eggs, sad for me, and sad for my boys that they will grow up having to deal with the complexities of being double donor conceived
But then I just keep reminding myself that family is not just about genes...I read a great article in the Sydney Morning Herald this week in which a donor conceived (sperm not eggs but same principle) woman writes:
_The reality is you - the things that make you really you - are not your genes. There is no gene for your love of camping, or the comfort you get from the smell of your mother's perfume._
_Knowing your biological parent will never explain why you love the one you do, why you hate early mornings or feel uplifted by classical music. Your genes and your environment interact to create you, but they do not give meaning to your life. Add to that what scientists call developmental noise, when characteristics between people vary greatly despite similar genetics and environment, and the idea our genes might explain our lives becomes highly unlikely._
_There is an appealing safety to the idea that blood is thicker than water; biological family must be there for you, no matter what. But of course such connections do not always hold. People are abandoned by blood relatives, and an adoptive or step parent can give the type of true, unyielding love imagined to be the sole domain of the blood bond_
(see full article here: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/true-fatherhood-is-not-about-biology-20110321-1c3px.html)

Now of course there are plenty of articles which would, and do, state the opposite view, but I like to think that the above is what matters, and what my babies will, I hope, grow up feeling and thinking...

re telling others and fear of their reaction - I am lucky in that I have had nothing but support from friends and family and the donor issue is pretty much irrelevant - the babies are treated as 100% part of the family. With acquaintances/colleagues etc, I simply have not mentioned DE, and will not - it's none of their business and there's no need to. I have told doctors/health visitors/midwife etc as it's simpler than avoiding all the questions about genetic conditions/family medical history - but again, I have had nothing but acceptance from them (most don't even bat an eyelid about it and we move on quickly...)
Ultimately though, other peoples' reaction isn't relevant - what matters is you, and how you feel, and what is important to you. We only get one life, and it's a pretty short one when you think about it, so don't waste time worrying about what others think. I know this is easy to say and hard to do, and I'm not always great at taking my own advice on this one, but I think you just have to keep reminding yourself that this is your life, your baby, and no one else's business 

This may sound a bit silly but one thing I did when I was starting to tell people about the pregnancy (most close friends knew from the early days, but the wider circle/strangers etc) was to 'rehearse' it all in my head first (actually this should work well for you with your acting career!) - I would practise what I would say, and potential responses to them if they asked 'awkward' questions or said something negative or judgemental. I found this a great help so that when actually in the situation I wasn't lost for words and always felt I'd said what I wanted to say and got the message across in the way I wanted...

And I totally agree with Mini - there is no reason at all why you shouldn't meet someone in the future, several of the single girls have done so, either whilst pregnant or afterwards, so don't give up on the relationship dream. And in a way I think it makes it simpler - once you have a child already, you can focus on finding the right relationship, rather than looking for someone to get pregnant with....

Hope this helps somewhat, these feelings are all very natural and you just need to give yourself time. Using DE is a process rather than a one off decision - it stays with you and your feelings are bound to change and evolve as the pregnancy develops and your baby grows up...talking it through with a counsellor will help, but don't be too hard on yourself, pregnancy is a really tough time without all of this to think about as well, so take it easy and don't put yourself under too much pressure to think or feel a certain way 

take care
Suitcase
x

PS as much as I said I wasn't, I was scared how I'd feel about the babies too, even though everyone I knew who had had DE said they loved them instantly...all I can say is that they were all right, and there was really nothing to be scared of...when you carry that baby inside you for 9 months and give birth to it, it's yours no question. I couldn't love my boys any more, I really couldn't 

/links


----------



## GIAToo

Mini - thank you.   I know it is only something I can decide    but thanks and it does help to be reminded that this is a very difficult decision.  As you go through this journey and take each step it seems you just have to find more and more strength sometimes don't you? And on my good days I know that meeting someone will still be a possibility and as you say, no annoying ex in the background!    I do still my counsellor once a month, seeing her tonight actually, so I will have a chat with her about it all.  I do so hope that you get your BFP this time        

Suitcase - thanks for your response, so impressed you have the time and very appreciative as always    I love that article and will keep that for the dodgy days.  I don't feel that genes are important and find it confusing that I still feel those things about my own eggs    I know my family will have no problem with the DE thing, a couple of my cousins suggested it to me and would have gladly donated if they could (not sure I would have accepted, but luckily they are all too old for me to have to have considered it!!), but I don't think any of them could understand what it is like to have to give up on their OE, obviously.  I don't know why I feel ashamed - I think it is probably linked to the fact that I am still single, never been married and if I had maybe I wouldn't have left it all so late and had to give up on my OE - rather than it just being about my eggs, if that makes any sense at all?  You know what it's like, whenever you went to family dos everyone would always feel totally at liberty to ask about your love life!  I eventually told my cousins husbands (who were the most intrusive!) that I'd never met a man who could keep up with me sexually!!!    That shut them up and they never asked again!   

You're right that friends/aquaintances don't need to know, so I'll stick with that.  Some close friends know and couldn't give two hoots!   

I think I am just feeling tired and emotional and now have too much time to think! I will definitely think about practising what I'm going to say in advance.  I have told some people that I used donor sperm and then wished I hadn't.  Again not sure why and I want to be proud that I took the situaton in hand, as it were!

Anyway, I'm rambling again now.

Oh and saying "Using DE is a process rather than a one off decision" is a perfect way of summarising - as you say an evolving thing, which will change throughout mine and the child's life!   

Thanks again girls
GIA Tooxxx


----------



## some1

GIAToo - big   .  Remember you are awash with powerful hormones at the moment and they really magnify all your emotions.  I think what you are feeling at the moment is completely normal and a lot of pregnant women who have conceived naturally in loving relationships go through similar doubts and worries.  It is impossible for you to come up with all the answers to the 'what ifs' at the moment, so don't pressure yourself to do so.  

Once you get that nuchal scan out of the way you will be able to believe in this pregnancy a little more, it is so amazing to see the little creature you have made in so much detail (and remember you HAVE made it - regardless of its donor egg origins).  

I don't think you need to tell people too much about the fact you have used donors (or at all) if you don't want to at this stage.  The fertility counsellor I saw said something to me that I have referred to before on here about telling - 'You don't have control over peoples' reactions to what you tell them, you only have control over what you tell them'.  She said this in response to me sharing my concerns about what people may think of my choices.  During my first pregnancy I didn't tell anyone about using a donor who didn't already know about my ttc journey, I just said 'I've got great news, I'm pregnant!, 'No I'm not seeing anyone', 'Yes, I'm doing this on my own, I'm so excited' and let them fill in the blanks with their own imaginations.  If anyone asked any probing questions (which they actually didn't) I planned to just say 'Oh, that's a very long story!' with a smile and move the conversation on.  This kind of approach is truthful and gives you the option of telling more at a later date if you choose to.  I have now told all the friends I am still in touch with about using a donor because I felt comfortable doing so after J was born.

As for relationships, well its very personal, but my experience is that I can now see that my quest for Mr Right was much more a quest for 'Mr Right to have babies with' and that now it is just so much less important.  My life as a Mummy is full of so much love that I just don't have that emptiness that I sometimes felt when I was single and searching.  I can't imagine finding the time or inclination for a relationship in my life, but in a few years time maybe.  The wonderful thing is that now I know that the terms have changed completely and any man I share my life with will have to be pretty special and I won't be letting myself me messed around or hurt like I have in the past.

How you'll feel about the baby?  I really don't think this will be a problem, your feelings for the little being in your body will develop as your pregnancy develops and when it is born you will just be filled with wonder.  When J was born I didn't experience the 'falling in love' moment that lots of people describe, but I was incredibly protective of her from day one and my feelings for her developed as we got to know each other.

Keep sharing how you feel on here, don't let yourself get to bursting point, I'm sure lots of us can identify with your feelings    

Some1

xx


----------



## GIAToo

Some1 - thank you    What you say about telling makes total sense and I am going to start practicing my breezy responses of "'No I'm not seeing anyone', 'Yes, I'm doing this on my own, I'm so excited'    

When I was looking for Mr Right I had (almost) convinced myself that I didn't want children so on the surface I was not looking for a father.  Looking back I realise that was not true deep down, but I still went for the wrong 'uns and am hugely grateful I never got pregnant by any of them!! In my recent dream I had gone for a man who was totally against my usual "type" and was just really kind, even though looks wise he looked like a hairy biker!!! (in fact it was guy from the TV series Sons of Anarchy! Not too far from "type" then!!     ) 

Thanks again    and hope you're well! Not long to go now!   
GIA Tooxxx


----------



## greatgazza

Hi giatoo

just wanted to come on and give you some   .  I can't offer any words of wisdom but i hope that someday soon i will be asking the same questions that you are asking and learning to practice my responses.

Love gg x


----------



## lulumead

also sending you some    Great words of wisdom from the others...all I can add is that it is overwhelming finally getting pregnant especially when we've spent so long trying to, its weird to think that we actually might be!!!


As to telling, with the DS I sent an email to all friends to announce saying that after a long time and with help from a clinic I am delighted to say I'm pregnant!!  A couple of people who weren't on email, have asked "who did the deed!" and I've just been honest and said 'I went to a clinic, all very 21st century'. I wouldn't say more than this though about the donor, that feels too personal. Plus I work in the Arts so people are pretty liberal....and my family don't really care, they are just really pleased.


Anyway rambling...I too worry about never meeting someone now, and never having    again but who knows! I love the idea of saying that no man could keep up with you, I'm going to steal that line - that would stop the questions   


Looking forward to hearing that 12 week scan is all good - hope you are feeling less sick too.
xxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Teela

Gia2     I just wanted to send your a virtual hug or two and also thank u for voicing a lot of things going on in my head as well.
After quite a few failed attempts and my age   I am at the crossroads of Donor egg and moving on from OE. I am currently chasing Stepan to see if I can cycle in May DFET.

I feel ok about the non genetic link, yes sad at the loss of my eggs and maybe never seeing my eyes looking back at me, but then I suppose there is no guarantees that would happen with OE! As Suity said and others carrying that baby for 9 months and giving birth will majorly bond you, and I am sure you will adore your little one. Like you have the fears and think OMG what if I cannot love him/her!

Im having a big dilemma over to tell/or not, was always telling re Donor sperm but not sure what I want to do re eggs and I need to get my head around this, although I suppose getting pregnant would be a start   which I seem unable to do at the moment, and then worry about the real big stuff later. Apart from on FF I have not discussed Donor with family or friends.

I also write off the chance of finding Mr Right, my SIL is always telling me off for it. I would love to meet my Soul mate just starting to doubt there is one out there for me!!

My head hurts but thanks for airing your thoughts Gia2 and all you lovely ladies for your as usual brill advice.

thanks
Teela
xx


----------



## GIAToo

Oh girls - thanks so much - it really does help to know you are not the only one thinking all these things.  I try and talk to my Mum and bless her she tries, but of course she could never really understand.  It does help enormously that she is just basically ecstatic that I am pregnant and doesn't care how the baby was created!!   

GG - thanks hun    I hope very much that you will soon have all these things to think about     

Teela - I actually told someone that she was being patronising the other day when she said "oh you'll meet someone!".  I felt a bit rude as I don't know her very well and she doesn't know I'm pregnant, but I just added "I have been trying internet dating on and off since the damn thing was invented!"    I hope that Stepan gets back to you with some positive news and I'm glad that me airing my thoughts was useful to you too   

Lulumead - you're right, actually getting pregnant is a bit of a shock and I think as I near the 12 week scan the reality is kicking in.  I worry about how I'll feel about my body after a baby, but I just need to find a man like Costas Caldes (Tom Conti) in Shirley Valentine who kisses your stretch marks and calls them "marks of life" or something like that!    

Feeling a bit better today, simply 'cos I don't feel so nauseas   

Thanks again all    
GIA tooxxx


----------



## Lou-Ann

GiaToo and Teela, I can't add any words of wisdom either, but wanted to send you both some   . GiaToo, glad that you are feeling a bit better today   

Lou-Ann x


----------



## lulumead

GIAT: I'm planning on blaming all my dodgy body bits on pregnancy regardless....I mean I never had any cellulite before I had a baby    do you think someone will buy that   


My friends in relationships say they never have sex anyway now they have kids so you never know we might end up having it good! At least we aren't kept away by snoring  



xx


----------



## Lillyan

Hi girls,
GIAtoo I can't add anything to what the girls have already said, but just wanted to say thank you for voicing your thoughts - you're not alone. I'm working towards my first DE cycle and part of me is marching forward, knowing that it's the right thing to do, but I still have worries and doubts. I've told a very small circle of friends about the double donor / donor embryo choice, but some members of my family know that I can't conceive with my own eggs, so please god if it's successful   , I will tell them too. I don't mind my family knowing (though not all of them were supportive in my choice to go for DS in my first round of OEIVF), as I plan to tell my child and I feel my family should also know. That said, it's such a personal choice and has so much to do with the people in your life and your relationships with them. When it comes to telling acquaintances, I think I will leave it vague, as others have done, and will rehearse my answers, which is a brilliant suggestion. As for meeting someone, I know that I feel alot more calm now that I've chosen to go this road by myself - I think I probably had an agenda for years and just wanted to meet someone so I could start my family. I feel alot more at peace now and am happy in my decision and feel that if I meet someone it will be because we get on with each other and want to share our lives, rather than me racing against my fertility clock. Just to add, I heard a story recently about a single mum who met a single dad in the school yard when they were dropping their kids to school - they saw each other every day, really hit it off and now they've getting married, so don't lose hope - choosing to be a single mum doesn't mean that you're giving up the chance of meeting someone special xx

Suitcase - huge congratultions on the arrival of your boys   

xxx


----------



## greatgazza

Hi all, 

as i said before this is all stuff i have yet (but hopefully) to deal with, and I do feel that i have been 'chasing' a father probably more than a partner for the last few years and i have felt really sad that my 'relationship' days were over after choosing this route so it's good to hear positive things about that.  

One thing i wonder though, if anyone here has met, or knows anyone who has met a guy/had a relationship how do guys/potential partners take to the news of the donor situation?  Does it alienate them? Make them think we're single minded, independent, even more nutty women?  I have read a couple of success stories on here so it must be possible and i'm obviously getting years and years ahead of myself but it is something that makes me sad to wonder whether guys would run a mile on learning this information....

GGx


----------



## Betty-Boo

GG - the guy I was seeing last year was in total awe tbh.  Although it didn't work out ... more to do with circumstance though and distance ... we do keep in touch and he knows I'm cycling.  I explained my reasons and he totally got it.  Think he'd have rathered I used his .. but that's just the male ego       (like I'd have wanted to use my own eggs..   ) but he could totally see why I chose this route and why the donor.


I think if you meet the right person you know how he'll react ... (fingers crossed..)


Take care mini x x


----------



## lulumead

I agree with Mini, the men I know all think its great. in fact they probably have more respect for someone who chooses this path than someone who tricks a man into getting pregnant when its not something they (the man) have chosen to do. My ex even suggested I used a donor when we were together as he knew I wanted a baby but he wasn't ready to do that again as he already had a daughter that he didn't live with which broke his heart.  I thought it was very weird at the time, but looking back I think he genuinely meant it and didn't have a problem with it!


I reckon the right one will think what you have done is fantastic.
xxx


----------



## Lillyan

Absolutely - I think if he's right for you then he'll accept you and the choices you've made. Someone who can't accept what you're choosing to do can't fully accept who you are, and by virtue of that, he won't be the right person for you, if that makes sense? I'm thinking alot about this too at the moment. A friend of mine is turning 40 this weekend and the guy she met 8 months ago proposed to her last weekend - she accepted and we're all going out tomorrow night to celebrate her birthday & engagement. I hate to admit it but I was so envious when I got her text about the engagement. There are tons of people at work too who are getting married and having babies with their partners and I often wonder why it's so difficult for me / us in this situation. Thank god for FF otherwise I know I would feel totally alone in all of this!


----------



## Sima

Helloooo   - Just thought I would start this thread up again.  Looks like I'm going to be jumping back onto the tx bandwagon in 3 months time which will be 6 months after my myomectomy.  I've been in touch with Serum and they are busy looking for a donor for me.  I'll be going out for a hysteroscopy in April and assuming I get the get light from that then it will be all go May/June.  

Question - should I still take the standard pre conception vitamins even though I am using donor eggs?

I'm excited and scared all rolled into one


----------



## Betty-Boo

Woohoo - way to go Sima!       


That's brilliant - ref the vits - I took everything as though I was using own eggs - preg vits, royal jelly, etc etc etc ... 


Fingers and toes crossed


Mini xxx


----------



## Rose39

Fantastic news Sima!!!!!!         Yes I took all the preconception vitamins as well plus omega 3 fish oil etc. Odd question, but have you had your thyroid tested recently? I ended up taking low dose thyroxine as although my levels were classed as the top end of normal by NHS standards, they need to be between 1 and 2 for IVF. 

Wishing you all the luck in the world for this cycle hun      

Rose xx


----------



## indekiwi

Sima, so pleased that you have recovered sufficiently from your recent op to even be able to consider this tx!      All I took was folic acid but then again I'm not a huge fan of spending money on vitamins etc that I think should be covered by my normal diet - it certainly won't harm your chances to take any extras that you feel will give you the best likelihood of a successful pregnancy.   Wishing you every bit of luck this world can provide - and then some.  I really hope Penny can pull something out of the hat for you.     


A-Mx


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## Betty-Boo

Wise words Inde - I do think sometimes I take far too much and wonder if it actually does me any good?


  Mini x


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## Rose39

Mini - I think it depends on where you get your food from!

I continue to take a good multivitamin as a kind of insurance policy (only costs a couple of pounds), as with mass/ intensive farming, our food (and the soil) may not have the same level of nutrients as it did years ago (I go to the pick your own farm in the summer and the fruit and veg taste completely different from those in the supermarket), and fresh food loses its nutritional content once it's picked (with our preference for year round fruit and veg, so much is shipped from abroad and loses its vitamins and minerals the longer it takes to reach us). I have a healthy diet, but at the same time I don't know if I'm really getting all the vitamins and minerals I need ... e.g. there's just been a debate on whether we're getting enough vitamin D as we're all wearing much more sunscreen these days. The levels of vitamins/minerals in a multivitamin are enough to prevent you having a deficiency, but not therapeutic (in that they won't actively treat a problem). 

Ideally we should be getting all the nutrition we need from our food, but taking a multivitamin just reassures me that I'm getting the basic level of vitamins and minerals not to be ill.

Rose xx


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## indekiwi

Mini      I think whether you do or don't take a lot of this stuff is less important than if you feel / believe you've given yourself the best chance for a successful outcome - the last thing I'd wish on anyone would be to fret throughout their TWW and beyond that they simply hadn't done enough that was in their control - supplements being one such factor.  Since I'm a bit of a sceptic about such things, it wasn't ever something that would have played on my mind but for many others I'm sure it would be different.  For the record, I'm a firm believer in folic acid....Alvina was born with a very deep dimple at the bottom of her spine that has gradually disappeared over time - I was told after she was born that it was an indication that her spinal cord had closed up quite late in its development.  Who knows, had I not taken folic acid, maybe she would have been born with spina bifida.   


A-Mx


----------



## Sima

Thanks for the good wishes.  I still have a long way to go so I am not going to count my chickens just yet.  It's nice to have a plan and I am going to take it one step at a time.

I'm going to start on the pregnancy vits now and hope that I can keep my RA under control now that I am cutting down on the drugs.  In the mean time I am just hoping to get through the next couple of months with no dramas as I had my fair share of them last year. Having said that I am having lots of fun and games at work at the moment.  I am trying to stay in my oh so lovely karma zone and not let it affect me but people have a way of dragging you into their fights   

BTW - I am still on the waiting list for eggs in my London clinic.  I'm just not convinced they are going to come up with a donor in a sensible time hence going abroad.

Rose - I am going to have some immune tests (does that include thyroxine levels?).  I've been busy reading Agates file but to tell you the truth I am still confused as to where to start.  All I can say is I have the most marvelous GP cheering me on so hopefully between the two of us we will work it out.

Inde - I hope everything is going well with your pregnancy.  Not long to go now.  I'll pop over to the other boards to see how you are getting on.


----------



## Betty-Boo

Rose my supplements are more menopause related. Anything to keep the flushes away.

Sima - I know I'm at the top of the list for glasgow - bit still very unsure about trying again. More to do with emotional & hormonal state.  

Sending lots of   your way xxx


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## GIAToo

Sima - how exciting     I took pregnacare too. I'm not a great believer in multi-vits, although I don't think we get as much nutrition from our food for the reasons Rose explained, however, I would be one of those who had yo be comfortable I had done all I can. 

Mini-    I know there may be other life factors to consider, but at least once you move to DE there is no rush for treatment. Take as much time as you need.   

GIA Tooxx


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## Betty-Boo

Thanks Hun moved to DE a long time ago - just need to get body n mind fighting fit again xx

How are you doing?? Xx


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## GIAToo

Mini - oh I know, I just meant that you have time to get over the past months and get your body ready, whereas (for me anyway) when I was still trying with OE it felt like a big rush....   I still rushed with DE actually    I'm ok thanks   
GIa Too xx


----------



## Betty-Boo

Must admit part Of me does think - did I change to de too early? Should I have tried iui ... Alas a wee bit too late. 

Your lo is a cutie - time is flying by already! 
Take care xxx


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## GIAToo

Personally I think I will always wonder if I should have kept trying with my OE, but I love my son to bits and as time goes by (and my cycle length gets longer and longer!) I am more convinced I did the right thing.  I    that it will work for you too   
GIA Tooxxx


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## Betty-Boo

Know what you mean - thinks body was saying no and mind always wondered... Think having an amh of 0.0 at 36 was a big jolt.
Maybe one day I'll jump back on in the mean time am loving catching up with all the gorgeous new babies on here. Wonderful news xxx
Take care x


----------



## midnightaction

Hello ladies   

Been a very long time since I posted on this thread, but I am venturing back on it to ask a bit of advice from anyone who may have some knowledge about frozen eggs. I hope no one minds me posting here, now that I have my little ones   

I may well be absolutely crazy, but I have spoken to the clinic about potentially having a sibling for the girls and they have come back to me and said that both of the donors I used are still available, but the female donor has got frozen eggs at their "Egg Bank" and I have been asked if I want to use them. The general consensus seems to be that frozen eggs really don't defrost very well and the success rates are pretty poor, so I think it's probably not worth trying with them because it will be a waste of time, but the female donor is not available to donate any more so having these frozen eggs are the only possible way of having a full biological sibling for the girls. I know that the full genetic link is not important, if it was I wouldn't of used donor eggs and sperm, but I have decided that if I do choose to have a sibling I don't want to complicate the issue any further by using a brand new donor.

I don't know what to do, I don't plan on going for treatment any time soon, would be looking at waiting until the girls are at least a year old, but I need to make a decision about whether to reserve these eggs or not. Would be interested in anyones opinions on frozen eggs and whether you think it is worth it or not, or if I should just say no to any further treatment and be content with what I have got   

Big hugs to everyone on here   

Sarah x x


----------



## Rose39

Sarah  - wow how exciting! Would it be possible to ask the clinic if any of the frozen eggs from this donor have been used by anyone else, and what the outcome was? Obviously you know that this is a proven donor for fresh eggs, but is she a proven donor for frozen eggs? 

Have the clinic given you a % chance of success based on others using frozen eggs?

I used frozen eggs from my clinic's egg bank when my second egg donor didn't respond well to the medication, but the embryos were poor quality even though the fresh eggs from the same donor (in the same batch) had gone to blast. The frozen eggs were from a 22 year old who you would think would have eggs of the optimum quality for freezing. I also remember that JJ1 didn't have a good experience with frozen donor eggs and none of them defrosted properly.

One of the Spanish clinics (IVI Valencia) uses frozen eggs regularly I believe, and I believe that Nottingham Care is starting to use frozen eggs from the US, so it might be worth posting on the threads for these 2 clinics to find out whether others have had a more positive experience? 

Good luck hun! (I'm also having similar thoughts about a sibling for Rosebud even though she's only a few weeks old - but I have 9 blast frosties so there would be a good chance of a full sibling).

Rose xx


----------



## kizzi79

Hi Sarah

No expertise but just wanted to wish you luck (so difficult making these decisions) - amd don't ever worry about posting here when you have lo's (it gives people like me hope!!)

Love Krissi xx


----------



## Rose39

Sarah - I've just done a search and there are 2 ladies on FF who have BFPs using frozen eggs from IVI Valencia - MichMac who has twins and ElsieF who is pregnant with a singleton.

Why not email IVI Valencia just with a general enquiry about how successful frozen eggs are? Their success rates may be higher as they have expertise in this area, but it might give you an idea?

Rose xx


----------



## GIAToo

Sarah - personally I would want to try with the frozen eggs. I understand the desire for full siblings as I wrote to the clinic to ask if they had any more embryos like S   , but they don't.    I didn't ask if the egg donor was still available to donate as  I can't see me being able to afford a fresh cycle.  So I would jump at the chance of frozen eggs. But that's just me   

Good luck.  If you reserve the eggs, how much do you have to pay?
GIA Too xxxx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

tricky one hun, can you reserve for minimal cost? in which case I would do that so you have the option if you want to take it up
think frozen eggs do have lower success rates but if you def want full siblings and it's your only option, and reserving the eggs is not a major investment then it makes sense to do it

Suitcase
x


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## indekiwi

Sarah, does the clinic advise what its own successful thaw and pregnancy rates with frozen eggs are - and the number of tx cycles these statistics cover?  Secondly, does the potential cost warrant the effort involved?  I recall frozen donor embryos being quite cheap there, making the effort to get out there and undergo FET much more worthwhile than if there was a significant price tag attached - and of course their statistics are very good, albeit less than for fresh cycles as one would anticipate.  If it is a similar situation with respect to the cost / effort / success equation for cycles using frozen eggs, I'd be tempted to give it a whirl.  As for full genetic siblings, only you can decide how important this is for you - if you are happy in your decision not to pursue matters further unless you have access to the same donors, that's great.  We all set boundaries around what measures we are prepared to take when creating our families and these by definition are subjective.    However, personally, (and this is not something I am advocating for you or anyone else, just my own take on things) I'm not necessarily convinced that it is so complicated to have a different egg donor, particularly since you still have recourse to the sperm donor.  


A-Mx


----------



## Betty-Boo

Tbh - if its not too much of a cost I'd reserve them. Science with regards to thawing / freezing changes & improves so quickly. 
Agree with Inde - for me the continuity would be the sperm donor.



suitcase of dreams said:


> despite a horrendous pregnancy I still look with envy at pregnant women and tiny babies and want to do it all again...must be quite mad


I'd quite like to experience it full stop. Alas time/ money and resources / work may put a stop to it.

All the best with your decision. 

M x


----------



## GIAToo

Interested as to why others think the continuity is more important (not the right words, but you know what I mean) with sperm donor rather than both?  Stepan did tell me that he has two lots of frozen embryos with different egg donors but same sperm donor so I ruled them out.  

Mini    

GIA Too xxx


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## indekiwi

GiaToo, speaking only for myself, I don't see it as more important that there is continuity with only one rather than two donors, or two over one, or even the same donors at all.....I'm aware of treading on very sensitive ground here...but take for example my own situation. My son has a different biological mother than my daughter(s). Yes, that biological mother happens to be me. And yes, I guess in some way, when I was trying to work through my feelings about donor eggs, I took solace that at least I would be linked in some way to any baby/ies born of donor eggs through my son's genetic link via the sperm donor. However, since having Alvina, I've realised just how much I over-thought things (_in my personal view and as I now see things_) and ascribed importance to factors that, frankly, I couldn't give a stuff about now - hindsight being 20:20 and all that.

1. I love my daughter because she's my daughter, not because she's my son's half sibling (in the biological sense), not because I'm in some relationship with the sperm donor  , not because she is the result of the coming together of the genetic material of two strangers, but simply because she is the person that she is.  Likewise, the relationship between Poppet and Alvina is incredibly close - they clearly adore each other - and their biological make up has absolutely zilch to do with it.

2. In terms of looks, I have been told that Alvina is more like me than like Poppet by certain people who know the genetic beginnings of both - and that despite her darker skin, hair and eyes. People naturally look for similarities, not differences. Yet if you look at photos of the two kids at the same age, they are similar in so many ways.

3. In terms of being able to learn the identity of, and perhaps meet, their respective donors, none of my kids are likely ever to be able to do so with respect to their shared sperm donor given he contributed his gametes prior to 2005 when the law changed in this country. My girls will at least have the opportunity of finding out more about the egg donor, which will put them on a more equal footing with Poppet, albeit it would be an entirely different set of circumstances and potentially relationship. Who knows if any of them will be interested in tracing their donors? I can't answer that. What happens if they can trace the egg donor but not the sperm donor? Well, in our case at least, they're all in the same boat. In the situation that others face, in having had anonymous donor gametes in other countries, the kids will also be in the same boat.

4. Is there a moral case against having children in the family conceived using different gametes? Some people don't agree with fertility treatment full stop. Some don't agree with using donor gametes under any circumstances. If you are posting on the singles boards, you most likely don't agree with the people that don't agree.  However, I would be very interested in reading the moral arguments for not having a family with the use of different donors for siblings. (As an ancillary comment, to my mind, this would of course rule out straightforward adoption).

I understand that there are possible financial implications in proceeding with rounds of fresh IVF using different donors and that this could well be a show stopper for many. But this is a separate argument to whether or not it is a good or bad thing to bring into being a family that comprises different genetic compositions.

Anyway, as I originally posted, I'm not seeking to change anyone's minds on this - it is very subjective and I don't believe there are any right answers. It's just having come through the other side and lived with my decisions for a quite some time now, I no longer see things as particularly complicated - I believe I understand the implications for me and my family, and at least so far, any issues have been navigable.

A-Mx


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## GIAToo

Ooooooh Inde- you're making me think again about going back!!     Thanks for your thoughts   
GIA Too xxx


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## suitcase of dreams

parts of my earlier post were not appropriate and insensitive   
I have amended it  and apologise for any hurt caused by my thoughtlessness
mini I have pm'd you
Suitcase
x


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## Betty-Boo

Suity - you didn't offend me - was sort of agreeing with your post .. iykwim .. 
Would love to be a mum - alas outside influences and situations are standing in the way.


I apologise if 'continuity' was misconstrued - was trying to think of the right word.  But for me it would be that children had some link - can't explain why, just a feeling.


I'd always see myself as mum no matter what.


  
Mini xx


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## suitcase of dreams

oh good, would hate to think I'd offended or upset anyone unintentionally

re the continuity, I kind of agree with Inde that once the babies are here it all seems much less relevant - they are who they are. And to some extent if you are going abroad and both donors are anon anyway, then I guess it makes no difference that one child has 2 anon donors, let's call them a and b, and another child has 2 other anon donors, p and q....the children aren't going to be able to find a, b, p or q...they will have same level of info about them, and they will both essentially have the same mum anyway and be brought up together as siblings which is what counts   

for me, the decision not to try again if my one frostie doesn't work is less about not wanting new/different donors, and more about needing to draw a line. I could easily become too 'determined' (obsessed?) to conceive again and given how hard and expensive it was with all the immune tx etc and repeated failures, this would be  disaster for me and the boys. so I'll try with the frostie because I don't think I can leave it there and not give it a go, but that's me done then...

Suitcase
x


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## midnightaction

Thanks ladies for all your thoughts and comments, it's great to hear lots of different opinions on the matter.

I have not yet asked the clinic what their success rates are with frozen eggs as I have been caught a little off guard by the fact that they actually have my donor available. I asked if my donor was still available because I just wanted to know if it was going to be a possibility, and like a lot of you ladies would be able to try and draw a line underneath it if my donor was not available. To now find out that it is a possibility has really made me think about it and I am convinced now that I want to do it again, as crazy as that is.

Rose thanks for the info on the other clinics I will take a look at all of that information and see if I can find out some more about what the success rates are. Like I think someone mentioned, science is moving on all the time so frozen eggs may continue to improve it's success rates over time and when it comes time for me to try again then the results could be much better.

Inde, you raise some really good and interesting points as always. I place very little emphasis on genes and the influence they have over us, I think to reduce who we are as people to mere genes belittles how complex human beings are. Take for example my two girls, now they look exactly like me. And I don't just mean that strangers have commented on how they look like me, I mean I can actually see things in them that are exactly the same as me and even people who know I have used a donor have commented how weird it is that despite that, they really resemble me. Now scientifically this can not be, I could not have had any influence on the girls physical features but yet I seem to have. This tells me that we have not yet pushed science far enough in the particular field of epigenetic's to know if something like this is actually possible. Personally I believe they look like me because I basically grew them from scratch, yes someone else provided the building blocks but I built the house !!  

In terms of personality then I 100% believe that who you are and the way you behave is totally based on who brings you up. My girls will behave in certain ways because they have learnt it from me and they will like and dislike certain things because of me. I know the nature v's nurture debate can be a contentious one, but for me nature plays a very small part in it and nurture a massive role. 

For me, not having a genetic link to my girls is not important in the slightest, if it had been an issue I don't think I would ever of been able to go down the DE route in the first place. I was desperate for a baby and was willing to do what ever it took to achieve that. Before the girls were born I was worried that it had been a mistake, but since they have arrived it has never again crossed my mind, they are totally mine and mine alone.

I am not sure that actually having the same egg donor again is actually all that much of an issue for me as I may of first thought. If I want a sibling that badly then I guess I will do as I did the first time around and take what ever options are given to be to achieve that child. I think the issue here is, is that I have been given the option of having a potentially full genetic link sibling and because that option is there if feels like I should take it. Given the option of using the same donor or having to choose a new one, I am sure every single one of us would choose to have the same one (I may be wrong and maybe some would choose a new one !), it just makes sense doesn't it, surely we would want that link to be there. The issue comes when the option isn't there, and I believe that if the option to use the same donor wasn't there for me then I really would consider a different donor. I have no issue with it at all, as you said suity none of them would be able to trace their donors so it's not like one child would have the advantage over the other. So really there is no reason for me not to go for a new donor other than now I have had the carrot dangled in front of me of the potential same donor !!

It really does come down to what is more important, use the same donor and use frozen eggs which will mean a high chance of it not working. That means expense for no reason,the potential heartache of a failed cycle and never having another child. Or go for a brand new donor with the link being through the sperm donor, and have a much higher chance of it working and less money thrown down the pan.

I think I have decided I have to give it a try with the same donor, just because the option is there. That's not to say I think there is anything wrong with going for a new donor, I in fact think the exact opposite, but I think I might regret it if I didn't try with the same donor. If it doesn't work then that is obviously what was meant to be, but I don't want to spend time thinking "what if". If the same donor doesn't work then I may well consider another donor, and will be extremely happy with that choice, well that is if I have any money left at that point to consider trying again. And if not then I shall be extremely happy and grateful for the two beautiful girls that I already have and will be more than happy to have them as my only children.

As long as the cost to store these eggs for my future use isn't ridiculously high and I can find out a little bit about frozen eggs and the success rates, and I find there is at least some chance of it working, then I will give it a go, I just have to really, but I will also look into my alternatives should that not work.

Anyway I think I have rambled enough on this matter now.  

Thanks once again for all your opinions ladies   

Sarah x x x


----------



## Sharry

Can I remind you that this is a public forum, so have removed the references to certain clinics  

Sharry x


----------



## kizzi79

Hi everyone.

Am driving myself a little mad trying to work out what next...

I am looking at a number of options including using donor embryo's abroad (as well as adoption or another go at own egg ivf). Am really looking for advice on how others decided the time was right to move on from own egg treatment. 

The clinic have indicated they are happy to do another own egg cycle using metformin and the pill for 3 months to regulate hormones and doing a day 2 transfer – but as no evidence from hormonal blood tests to indicate pcos there is no evidence that this will necessarily make a difference. The concern is that on both ivf attempts that despite getting good rates of fertilisation that the embryo development was delayed prior to transfer (indicating a likely problem with egg quality as the donor sperm is proven).
Really both financially and emotionally unsure that I can carry on with treatment much longer, so really looking at options which will improve my chances at success.

Interested in your thoughts and any personal experiences, Love Krissi xx


----------



## Betty-Boo

Krissi - didn't want to read and run     


I've moved away from Tx all together and am looking at the adoption route, possibly.  
Personally  - if you do go down the DE route - I felt as though a massive weight had been lifted as it wasn't a race against the clock any more.  It allowed me to take time out and really get my head in gear.
I hope you get some answers.


   Tis x


----------



## GIAToo

Hi Krissi,   
This is how it was for me, but I am older than you.
As soon as I decided to go it alone and try for a baby, I knew that I may have to use donor eggs because I had been told I was perimenopausal. I did 4 OE cycles in the end. 
First one I only got two eggs, but one embryo. BFN. 
Second one I got 4 eggs, but still only one embryo. I got pregnant on this cycle and although I lost the baby, it gave me hope that I could conceive with my own eggs. However, I did put my name on the waiting list for DE and DEmbryos at this point.
Third cycle I only had one follie so converted to IUI. BFN.
Fourth cycle, I did mild IVF, and at first scan I only had one small follie and thin lining. it was at this point that for me I decided that I couldn't carry on with my OE.
The reasons for me were:

I was obviously getting a really poor response and at my age only 1 in 6 eggs were going to be any good anyway.
I couldn't stand the thought of going through another miscarriage.
I didn't want to spend years and thousands more pounds pursuing this.
ON the day on the scan of my fourth cycle, I called the clinic and declared I was giving up and did they have any embryos that would suit me! I couldn't continue with treatment on that cycle as my lining was too thin, the next month was Christmas and the clinic was shut, so I went the following month. I had decided I would give donor embryos 3 goes and then I would give up (mostly due to financial reasons, but also because I was concerned about my age - who knows if I would have given up?)

During my pregnancy, I worried so much about the DE issue that I thought maybe I rushed into it, despite the fact that I had been thinking about donor eggs for 18 months - if you look back a few pages on the singles boards you will find another thread that I started called "single women CONSIDERING donor eggs" because I struggled so much with the issue. I'll try and put the link here, hang on......here it is;

http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=231604.0

That thread may help you 

Personally - now I am sooooo grateful that DE was even an option 

Take care and good luck - it is not an easy decision in my experience. Though some do find it easy. 

Thetis - good luck on your adoption journey  

GIA Too xxx


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## suitcase of dreams

krissi    

I was 37 when I started ttc and naively assumed all I needed was sperm. I had 3 IUI which didn't work and then went on to IVF. My first cycle I got 20 eggs, 14 fertilised, only 2 to put back, BFN. Clinic assured me just bad luck and try again with same protocol. 2nd attempt another 20 eggs, another 14 fertilised, 2 put back, 2 frozen. BFN. Then did FET with the frozen ones and BFP. No HB at 8 weeks but a bit like GIAToo getting that far convinced me to keep trying with my own eggs. Changed clinics and tried again. Only 8 eggs this time, 6 fertilised, 2 back and BFN with no frosties. Only at this point did new clinic suggest it might be an egg quality issue. First clinic (naming no names) just kept telling me it was bad luck and to keep trying...makes me quite cross looking back but there you go.

Had a further attempt at new clinic with PGD. All 6 embryos came back with severe chromosomal abnormalities so no transfer. This for me was the catalyst to move to DE. Consultant advised that every cycle different and I could still find a good egg/embyro but that chances v slim given results of PGD this time round. By now I was 39 and time becoming ever more of a factor for my own eggs.

I guess I felt I'd tried everything and it hadn't worked (I'd had immunes on all cycles after the FET as well) and I was running out of time, money and emotional stamina to keep going with such low success rates predicted.

It still took me 3 attempts with DE to be successful (2 fresh, 1 FET) so DE is not the magic answer either. It does increase your chances hugely but I know I was devastated when my first 2 DE attempts failed because I'd convinced myself the only problem was my eggs and once they were taken out of the equation I expected instant success. Not trying to depress you, just wanted to tell you how it was for me at least

You are young which I know makes it harder to move to DE    I think you need to have a long hard discussion with your clinic about your options. Is there anything they can suggest to improve egg/embryo quality? Have you always used the same sperm donor? If so, may be worth a change of donor - whilst the sperm quality should be guaranteed, there may be an incompatibility. 

It's a difficult decision to make and I think many of us who have gone down the DE route still harboured some worries and concerns even when we had made our decision. Speaking personally I had a little blip every time I had to accept my egg donor - it made me sad because no matter how good a match she might be, she wasn't me   
BUT now that it's worked and I have my beautiful boys I could not be happier, nor love them more and like many others I suspect, I find myself just wishing I'd made the decision sooner instead of wasting so much time on my poor old eggs.

Wishing you the very best of luck with decision making and do feel free to PM me if you think it might help - am happy to chat further about how it was for me 
Suitcase
x


----------



## indekiwi

Krissi, are you still using the original clinic you went to or have you now had a second opinion from another clinic?  I think it would be really helpful, if you were still hopeful of undergoing OEIVF, to get a few perspectives on what has happened to date and what other options you could explore.  I will shortly have two DE conceived children in my family so clearly I'm not only completely reconciled with this route to motherhood but am also in a place where, if the fertility fairy came and asked to wave her wand to make my two girls genetically mine too I'd tell her to    off.    I think it takes a while to get your head around DE tx and as Suity says, it doesn't necessarily work first or second time so isn't a panacea, but it does provide you with a further option that - in the words of Rose on a different thread, might be second choice but definitely isn't second best.   


Happy also to chat to you further offline if it would help with your deliberations.


A-Mx


----------



## suitcase of dreams

E - will PM you after breakfast...boys (and me!) are starving   

Suitcase
x


----------



## Rose39

Esperanza - so sorry to hear of your negative result        . In South Africa egg donors are anonymous but some are willing to exchange emails with their recipient (the egg donor agency removes all the identifying info) and you get a lot of information on the donor (about 8 pages of background), including baby photos. It is kind of a half-way house, for example if you have any medical queries on the donor's family history after LO is born, and there are no waiting lists at all - you pick the donor and there is a wide choice. Price-wise it's roughly the same as the UK but with a holiday in Cape Town thrown in! And no language barriers. I used the Nurture egg donor agency - you can request to access their donor list and see profiles for free. You can also import ID release sperm from ESB, Xytex etc to the clinic.
Please do PM me if you want more details.
Rose xx


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## silverbird

Hi all,

I know this is an old thread but I wondered if anyone still wanted to talk about this topic.

I'm looking to to egg share at a British clinic and they have sent me some details about prospective donors.  One looks quiet a good physical match is there anything else I should ask about I don't know how much detail I can have?  How much does age matter if they are picked as having good amh?  The only prob so far with this donor is OTD would be xmas day or there abouts and not sure if I can cope with xmas and a bnf.

Also what is the CMV status and does it matter?

thanks all

Silverbird


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## ♥JJ1♥

Silver bird if my surgery went ok in Greece I'll need DE's after doing DE's in Spain then UK I guess there are pros and cons to both- for me I had lining issues so i'd fly over to Spain after being scanned here the day before and my lining would have disintegrated do practical issues were my main consideration.
I went to CRM and was matched the first donor I turned down and got offered another a few weeks later.
Re AMH I don't really buy into after having cycled myself at ARGC who have the most successful results in the country by 20-30% more they don't even measure amh and focus on fsh, lh, oestrodial etc plus close monitoring.
Cmv - are you +ve of -ve? I'm negative but many people are +ve by adulthood - it used to be that if u were negative you had to have a negative donor, but now this may have changed at it is up to you if you take the risk of the baby developing it- there used to be a sticky thread on FF about it- I personally wouldn't risk it as I've looked after babies who have died from Cmv infection. 
It is odd because overseas they give you few if any details about donors- whereas here we get lots and then get hung up on it.i was told about uk donors ht/wt/family hx, her age,why she was needing ivf, children, colouring, education levels, hobbies,blood group, Cmv etc. 
Good luck


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## indekiwi

Silverbird,


I'm glad you resurrected this thread - it's an important topic.  


For some people, the donor's education is important, for others physical characteristics are key, and others again are most concerned with religion.  For me, it was important that there was proven fertility in that the donor had been pregnant in the past.  You can ask about any and all of these things, depending on what is important to you.  My donor was in her early 30s and I was satisfied to go ahead, but I know that others have waited until they were matched with women in their early 20s because, on paper at least, the chances of their egg quality being higher is greater.  Like JJ1, I am also CMV-.  There are said to be far fewer donors who are CMV- than CMV+ so the wait for a donor match can be longer, but I only waited 11 weeks at CRM London back in 2009.  Again, as JJ1 says, it used to be the case that a CMV- recipient could only be matched to a CMV- donor in the UK but personally I would have taken my chances with a CMV+ donor as most couples in the UK wouldn't know their CMV status before trying for a baby and I believe most other countries don't worry about CMV status with respect to fertility tx either....but then I haven't come into contact with babies who have been infected....   


Re OTD being Xmas Day, you could always ask if they would postpone tx by a month....the donor might well feel the same as you.   


Hope this helps.


A-Mx


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## blueytoo

I think proven fertility is more important than age or AMH personally when it comes to donor eggs. I have had 4 donor egg cycles including a 3 x grade 1 hatching blasts transfer cycle and despite the donors being in their early 20s I have had 2 x miscarriages and 2 x BFN from those cycles. 

When I was an egg share donor, all my recipients got pregnant and had live births and the last one was when I was 32. I was proven before I did my first donation cycle because of my DS.

But as PP have said, you have to decide what is most important to you. 

I would not want to test in December at all if it were me, but I love Christmas and so would not want the risk of it being ruined. You can definitely ask for tx to be delayed, I have had this happened when I was the donor.


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## silverbird

Thanks for taking the time to reply jj, idndie and bluey.

The donor I'm thinking of has a child already so I'm quiet pleased with that.  I guess I wanted a perspective on whether age of proven fertility was more important as if she has a child chances are she might be older than other donors.

I'll ask about treatment dates, if they give me enough progrstorne that I don't bleed early I could always put off testing till after xmas and have a proper binge at new year if it's negative.


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## agate

most clinics (and supporting studies), and current hfea advice  say that as long as a cmv+ donor shows the antibodies that prove her infection is an old one, or if its a new one, she is quarantined (not used as a donor) until she serroconverts proving that she is no longer acute, then the chance of her passing a cmv infection to a cmv- recipient is tiny.  Most clinics therefore are happy to offer you a cmv+ donor if you are cmv- so long as the donor's antibody profile looks safe/not contagious.


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## silverbird

Talked to the clinic today.  The donor is 32 so a little older than me but as she has a child already I think it looks a good option.  The donor doesn't mind about xmas day OTD.  I'm quiet keen to go for it so I could test on boxing day.  at least then I could have a new years blow out if it's negative I guess.  My clinic says not to worry about the CMV but not really sure if it's a prob or not.


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## Sima

Hi Silverbird

I'm glad things are moving forward for you.  Gosh not long to wait now.  Fingers crossed for a lovely Christmas present for you.


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## Betty-Boo

Hi Sima - how are you?    


Tis x


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## Sima

Hi Thetis

I'm fine.....still here and still battling on   .  I've had a summer away from tx as I tried to figure out the best course of action for me.  I've had a couple of mystery illnesses this summer which I've had to deal with one of which gave me a mouth full of ulcers which was really not nice and made eating and drinking a chore.  Imagine drinking wine and it tasting like vinegar   ...... not good.  Anyway it turns out I've had an allergic reaction to one of the medicines I have been taking.  I've stopped the meds and now just waiting to get better.  I wouldn't be surprised if this reaction might have been one of the factors which led to my last failiure.  Obviously I cannot say for certain but my immune system has taken a battering this year and I just need it to get back to normal.  So I don't think I will be having any more treatment until December at the earliest.  This is fine with me as my frosties are still waiting for me.  I went for some immune testing yesterday and the clinic said it could take up to 3 weeks to get the results.  Then I will get in touch with Peny and take it from there.  I think this all makes sense since I was on quite a high dose of steroids last time (40mg prednisolone) and I think my immune system must have been over suppressed and exacerbated my allergies etc and I had nothing left to fight my lergies.

Ha ha if it was straight forward then it wouldn't be me.  Lets see what the next few weeks brings in the meantime I will keep trying to send out lots of positive, karma type energy to me and all the others still struggling along.

I hope you are well.  Did I read you are moving?


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## silverbird

Thanks Sima.  Sorry to hear you've been so ill.  I hope things start looking up for you soon.


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## agate

sima: mouth ulcers... B12 deficiency, L-lysine imbalance?  vit D deficiency?  mouth ulcers are often seen with immune probs but sometimes taking a little dose of B12 and L-lysine (not a full dose) can help with reducing your vulnerability to ulcers... and all your immunes can go screwy if you are vit D deficient.


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## Betty-Boo

Hi Sima - yes you read right, a little sideways step to Portsmouth for my remaining time in the Navy.


Sounds like you've needed a break -    not being able to taste wine! OMG!! I had pine mouth once from eating pine nuts - everything Iate /drunk tasted of metal! Was horrible!  I hope your illness clears up and you're raring to go again.  Still undecided if I will try again or not .... Mmmm one step at a time they say.


Take care xxx


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## indekiwi

Hi, just bumping this up the boards as I wanted to mention a couple of things that might be useful to those embarking on DE tx at the moment.

There was an excellent post by Dragonfly on the main donor egg board recently describing the difference between _genetic_ and _biological _that has altered the language I use when I describe my (DE conceived) daughters: http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=311837.0

Separately, I recently went back and collated many of my posts which discuss DE tx, some of the issues I grappled with prior to conceiving, experience of having DE conceived kids and so on. (NB I have only copied my posts, not other peoples'). Unfortunately, when I have the bit between my teeth or start to obsess I can be very verbose, so these come to around 10 pages in length  and therefore when people have contacted me via PM to discuss certain aspects, or asked for my experience, I haven't been able to copy and paste them into a reply via PM. Therefore, if anyone is interested in having a copy, I'm happy to email it to an email address that has been PM'd to me.

A-Mx


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