# A rant about the media!



## deedee_spark (Aug 6, 2014)

Be-warned, this is a rant!

For those who have read 'The Chimp Paradox,' this is my _chimp_ speaking.  Very good book btw, can help calm down the most distraught TTC person.

So yesterday, I was feeling quite good. Positive. You know, if we don't get a BFP, we'll get one eventually. We'll see Dr Gorgy and get some tests. I'll finish my book.

I am 38 and a half, and I really want to be a mummy. I always have.

In the news yesterday, I saw an article from someone who is trying to survive her fading five minutes of fame. She said that we should all skip university and have babies instead, because we could have career's later. She said that we should wait, otherwise we will be let down as only a few people will conceive after 40. This women is not a reproductive gynaecologist/specialist. Neither is she a research expert in this area.

Now I sort of agree with the principle. However, I have not met one person who is TTC in their late 30's/early 40's, whether university educated or not, who decided that they were going to deliberately make it difficult for themselves, by leaving it late. Circumstances got in the way with every person.

*So here is the reason behind my tardiness:*

I went to university. My father would have made my life hell had I chosen to have a baby instead, especially if he had to pay for the baby. In fact, because I was in top set at school (no boast - I'd rather have had a baby), it was very uncool to want babies, and I think it still it. In my twenties I had a few boyfriends, none wanted to settle or think about babies. Why would they? They had a career and a social life. I worked in a building full of professional IT men (at least 300). I do not recall one of those men having a child in their twenties. In fact, the earliest signs of fatherhood was their late thirties. But I should have found a man - I do beat myself up over this. Another thing against me was my parents were wrapped up in an acrimoniously divorce and they made the lives of us children living hell - for about 10 years. Expecting us to take sides. Not hiding how they felt about each other. Crying. Manipulation. That sort of thing. I ended up depressed - I guess another lame excuse for not procreating in my early 20's. 

I met my ex husband at 28. Unfortunately, after we married he throttled me and physically/mentally abused me. It took me a while to recover as I suffered PTSD; the memory of the most vicious assault will live in every cell in my body, forever. There was a court case and then a whole host of soul searching, and self blame. As it turns out, a number of those boyfriends I had in my twenties were also mentally abusive. Excellent therapy helped (£55,000 worth) - I had a good job and private health care who paid the bill. But I guess it was my fault right? Certainly, that is what some women have told me. But, as it turns out, I didn't leave because I didn't know what abuse was. I grew up in an abusive household (many victims do). The warning signs were there but I was immune to them. BTW, in case you get judgemental, my ex is middle management professional, with huge volumes of friends. Those friends believe he would never be abusive despite the criminal conviction. I never thought he would threaten my life and I always thought he would change when we had a family. People change in movies so we're conditioned to think that people change. 'You've got mail' is a classic example of an manipulate man who gets the girl, so why not in real life? Ultimately, I let my ex have all the power in the relationship because I wanted children. I did everything he wanted just hoping he'd say, 'yes, let's start trying.' I know I should have left.

At the ripe old age of 35, I met my forever husband. The therapy paid off - he is wonderful. He is my best friend, lover, soul mate. Tell him to drink a green juice daily to improve our fertility and he'll do it. Ask him to stop drinking for a while, and he'll do it. He is not a pushover, he just wants me to be happy. Why isn't he enough on his own? Read chapter 2 of chimp paradox - we're driven to procreate. Besides he wants a child with me. He's in his forties. When I found I was single at 33, after my 1st marriage break up, I'd became physically repellant to anyone my own age.

With new hubby we tried for a baby... And I'm on here after 2.5 years of trying.

*The person who wrote the article didn't take into account the following:*

-We live in a western culture. It is all about what possession you have, not about family and community. The more money and the better the house, the more fulfilled you are; apparently. We no longer live near families. We are encourage to work hard for companies and play hard in the evening. And speaking from experience, it is not 'cool' to want to be a mother in a large, driven organisation. We go along with it because we need the money to buy a house, to go out, to see friends. Depression is on the increase in western society. Do possessions make us happy?

-According the article, a women should have a baby before she goes to uni. I guess this would make her 18-21. What 18-21 man is really going to want to be a father? So that means 18-21 year olds would have 2 choices: 
1. Get knocked up by an unsuspecting boyfriend. I guess the women's father could pay for the baby instead of her university degree, or should she claim from the state?
2. Find someone who is ready to have a child. This would make the man in their late 30's/ early 40's (if you were talking about the men I have worked with). So from the women's perspective, when the child is ready to leave home, twenty years later, her husband will be old enough to retire and now requires looking after! Plus, since the women is unqualified, her career is most likely to be on the checkout in Tesco (not that working in Tesco is bad, but I doubt it is the childhood dream of many women from all walks of life). Women get a great deal here!

*So my response, to the idiotic article is this:*

Don't blame it all on the women or the men. Most don't chose to leave having babies late. The are a whole host of social/economic reasons why skipping uni to have a baby is not the answer for women, or society. We are evolving into a more materialistic 'it's all about me' culture and further from a family oriented culture - that is the issue. And that issue is unlikely to change: big organisation need you to buy their products to survive (not have babies). They want results now, they don't care about 20 years time. The government needs large organisations to survive... This is a western society issue. Not a man V women issue. Children are required for mankind to continue.

Most abortions are carried out on the over 40's not the under 18's. Perhaps they need to add that to there scare articles.

Instead of victim blaming, help people who have found themselves in this situation. There are many natural approaches that can help fertility challenged couples. Diet and stress reduction is key (but I guess the big pharmaceuticals don't get money to research those areas). For instance, my doctor told me giving up gluten will make no difference to my hashimoto's. He was wrong about this, giving up gluten has more than halved my antibodies in 3 months. Plus it seems to me, doctors will encourage IVF for unexplained infertility without doing a whole host of tests. Don't you think that is a bit like doing a kidney transplant without actually finding out what is wrong with the kidneys? Further testing (immunes, infections) should be encouraged, and fortunately, thanks to some more progressive doctors, is available in a few private clinics. Unfortunately, it is expensive and located mainly in London.

IVF success does decline with age, as quoted in the article, but as long as you are ovulating, there is a chance every month whilst trying naturally.

Campaign to make adoption easier. If a child is abused by it's birth family, the child comes first not the birth family. Get the child away from the abuse and into a stable home as quickly as possible so less damage is done. I would love to adopt whether I had a child naturally or not. I am completely put of by the process and the risk of failure (see my history above). I have so much love to give but have suffered abuse and depression in my past and have little family support now. It's because of this, I would make a more compassionate mother than I would have at 18-26.

*My advice to fertility challenged people is this: *

Take control of your fertility. Listen to your body. Watch AF symptoms. Then research and find answers/doctors who can help in that area. Try natural approaches like diet changes and some supplements because it is cheap. Avoid food that might make you sick (this goes back to listen to your body). Raspberries may make one person sick; gluten another; someone else can eat everything.

Question everything the doctors says and double check it. There is some excellent information on this site.

When you are calm, trust your instincts about your next steps.

Learn mindfulness and try to stay in the present. It takes away the daunting 'what if'.

Be kind to yourself. Infertility is really tough. The subconscious human drive is to procreate. That's why we find it so hard when our bodies won't comply.

Ignore articles by people not qualified to speak on the subject.

Send each other baby dust.

Good luck girls. I'm praying we prove this women wrong.

****chimp rant over; human returns *****


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## EmGran (Mar 15, 2014)

Bravo - well said!


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## bombsh3ll (Apr 19, 2012)

Agree the media present a very skewed perspective on infertility.

Whilst I am all for raising young people's awareness that there is a finite window for female reproductive ability, I dislike the portrayal of IVF patients as having "brought it on themselves" by "leaving it too late".

Two things are wrong with this - firstly most IVF cycles are carried out in women 35 or younger, and many of the conditions causing genuine medical infertility do not discriminate by age eg PCOS, endometriosis, tubal damage due to infection or surgery, uterine abnormalities, POF etc etc...

More worryingly, it presents IVF as a solution for age-related fertility decline, giving people the impression that having children can be delayed safe in the knowledge that "there is always IVF". WRONG AGAIN

I really wish there were more factually correct and sympathetically written media articles!


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## Littlemissv (Mar 6, 2013)

And TV programmes.

Do any of you watch Hollyoaks? Their IVF storyline has been ridiculous.

She went to her first consultant appt and walked out with her DR DRUGS. Started them THAT DAY!!! (Amazing her timing was so fortunate ey?) 
She did the injections in her side, by the next day she was having hot flushes and behaving like a crazed woman (now I know it happens but not that fast!!) 
They seemed to have skipped any scans, or bleed, or in fact egg collection as the next thing we know she is having ET (about 2 weeks after she started) 
Then a week later she did a test and surprise surprise she is PG. just like that.

Amazing...

I wish someone somewhere would do some proper reporting of it....

L x


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## BroodyChick (Nov 30, 2009)

Very well put.
You should send this in as an article to a paper, or as a reader's letter! You are absolutely spot on.
I also remember reading about this woman, and thinking 'hang on a minute...'

Keeping my fingers crossed for you!

What I can add is that most people who want a baby eventually get one, if the odds aren't totally stacked against them.
On the weekend I caught up with a former flat mate, her hubby and baby son.
She was 35 when we met 8 years ago and we both gave birth to healthy baby boys within a month of each other this year.
We both said if someone had told us 8 years ago to stop worrying so much, that we'd meet men and have babies we would have had a much less stressful time until our hopes got fulfilled...

On the note about ridiculous story lines: did anyone try to watch that awful mess that was 'In the Club'!? Research on pregnancy and birth should be a doddle on the internet, even if you've never met anybody who's ever had a baby before. I was so disgusted with the shoddy story lines I had to stop watching and start ranting on ******* instead!


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## deedee_spark (Aug 6, 2014)

Thanks for your responses and warm wishes. I didn't expect anyone to respond. Just wrote it to release from rage! And that release felt great.

I might tidy it up, make it less hoity-toity   , more about all women struggling TTC in modern society, and send it off to the DM to champion the real infertility perspective (anonymously obviously  ).  I will also highlight the issue about many women on these forums have underlying issues, not age related issues. They would have had issues at any age - myself (possibly) included. 


Warmest wishes to you all.
x


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## Haydan (Oct 12, 2013)

whilst i do agree with everything you said - i do feel the need to state that this women was, in a misguided way, just trying to raise the issue of fertility health amongst women and men who as you stated now live in a societal culture that has de-prioritised the traditional family.
i do not feel she meant "all women should have babies before going to uni / instead of going to uni or building careers" but just to be mindful.

i was 25 when i started TTC and im 'lucky' that i was/am young but had i waited, due to potential circumstances beyond my control or due to my personal choice which i would have had a right to do, without knowing that my fertility health was bad then my options were being limited without me even knowing.

it is important that men and women realise the facts and take them into account when making their decisions - what ever they maybe.
~ if you dont want kids - that's fine
~ if you want to wait till later in life - that's fine
~ if you want to start TTC as soon as your old enough to have sex - that's fine
but just be educated in what your decisions mean.

i had no idea about any of this because no one tells you, its all just assumed that you get older -do what you want to do - find a partner settle down have kids and live happily ever after. 
i think shes right to bring this debate to the public - but as i initially stated she has done it a bit misguided and the media pouncing on the story and using provocative headlines doesn't help any.


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## Faithope (Jan 16, 2011)

That woman should stick to selling houses   I'm fed up of her preaching about fertility!! I actually enjoyed In The Club, it's a light hearted look at pregnancy and birth.

As for Hollyoaks   my god that was just plain stupid and dh and I sat there in amazement at how quick in soap land it always happens. She did lose the pregnancy afew days later though, it wasn't all perfect. 

Xx


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## deedee_spark (Aug 6, 2014)

I do agree that there should be some realistic teaching of children, but I was always aware that it was hard to get pregnant when older (it's always in the media). Maybe they need to teach that is ok to want to be a mother  - rather than you must succeed. I would have had children at 23/24 if l had found the right person, and life was good. Unfortunately, I didn't put myself first. But at the same time, I didn't mix with men who wanted to settle down. In fact some of them are still 'not ready' for children, but want them some day - they are now 40. Men are not attacked by the media.

My issue with this so-called housing expert is she has no experience of infertility, and I suspect she is trying to forge a new career by raising controversial subjects. Last week she said we should all call our parents at least one a week. It's such an opinionated statement. Some people have lost their parents, some were abused by their parents, some call their parents every day, and some were bought up by nannies/childminder/boarding schools. We're all different and should work out our own parent calling rota.

I would rather some like Anthea Turner or even Penny Lancaster promote the infertility subject. Both suffered, both had rounds of IVF. Penny got her children. Unfortunately, Anthea did not (I believe she had endo).

I also wish that someone like Jennifer Aniston stood up to the press more. Made it clear that just because a person doesn't have a baby, doesn't make them a lesser person (the who thing about kids get reversed as you get older - now you must have them).    

xx


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## smallbutmighty (Aug 5, 2013)

What concerns me most about the way IVF is debated in the media (especially the DM) is the misogynistic undertones that always underpin the debate.

1. Apparently, we're all career mad which is why we've put off having a family (as opposed to continuing with our career because that is what you do to make a living if you have yet to start a family). I have never seen an article that actually looks into other possible and probable causes for the delayed start to beginning a family. And you're right, in the majority of cases, it isn't that women are too busy leading a glamorous life to get on with it.

2. The debate is always about women, "Women are putting off starting a family." Forgive me, but I'm pretty sure it takes two to tango? Why doesn't it ever say "MEN are putting off starting a family" or "Couples..." ?

3. Medical infertility is always lumped in with aging as being the primary cause of infertility and so the debate on IVF is confused with the debate on whether it is right for women to have children later in life. Thus, couples who already have enough on their plates with a medical condition they probably want kept discreet, also have to endure the stigma of people saying it is probably their fault for having left it too late and got their priorities wrong. When actually, it can often take years just to find the problem or begin treatment.


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