# Donor Conceived Adult tells it how it is...for her



## olivia m (Jun 24, 2004)

Here is a link to an article in Guardian G2 today.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/nov/14/family-genetics

Olivia


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## minttuw (Jan 22, 2007)

Thank you Olivia! 

What a paradoxical subject!! I guess it is natural and human to want to know who your biological parents are... 

I am myself considering using an egg donor from a clinic abroad if my next tx fails which means that my future child would never be able to know who their biological mother was. Should I reconsider?  

Does anyone know whether the number of families who can use eggs from the same donor is also 10? 

Minty


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## olivia m (Jun 24, 2004)

Hi Minty
The limit is the same for egg donors in the UK, but few donate more than two or three times.  Your child could still have an identifiable donor if you stayed in the UK.  Egg donation is still possible here, even with altruistic donors, despite what some clinic doctors tell their patients.
Olivia


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## Bree (Mar 21, 2007)

Dear Minty, do you think part of that persons problem with being donor concieved is that she wasnt told young enough? Also, the manner in which she was told sounds more for the benefit of the fathers peace of mind rather than for her well-being! I also wondered what age she was when her parents divorced and how that affected her.

love from Bree x


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## blueeyes (Jun 19, 2004)

Hi
Without revealing too much, I know alittle of Jo and her family. She has found it extremely difficult to move forward in her life and whilst not wishing to be in any way disrespectful of Jo and her obviously very deep feelings of hurt and injustice, I do feel that her viewpoint is probably not typical of many DC children. She was in her teens her parents divorced and the circumstances were extremely difficult.
However I do agree that DC children should have some way of finding out their heritage where possible, and  I hope when DC children are raised now that because they know they CAN trace their roots (partly due to JO's campaigning) that it does not become such a defining and overwhelming thing in their lives, in contrast to Jo and others.  
Just my point of view and I hope no-one offended by it
xxx


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## Lesley08 (May 4, 2008)

The title of this piece says it all....ie how it is for her. I would find it very unlikely that all donor conceived people allow one small piece of their history to become all defining. Our obsession as a culture with genetics is also somewhat worrying and contrary to what one of the earlier contributors says it is virtually impossible to get a donor in the UK as a result of this particular persons crusade. This has not helped the situation but simply exported it.

lesley xx


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## roze (Mar 20, 2004)

I agree that anonymous donor conception is not ideal from anyones point of view however regardless as to how imperfect it is, as a concept and a method of having a family, it is very much here to stay by default.

Despite what Olivia tries to make out, it is still immensely difficult to secure an IVF cycle by egg donation in the UK in comparison with going abroad despite many clinics attempts to promote egg sharing. There is still a long waiting list for such treatment. The reality is that with some notable conceptions ie premature menopause, PCOS sufferers, most people coming to DE will be doing so as a result of many failed treatments with their own sperm and eggs. They are likely to be older. The other painful reality is that a person/couple may need several treatments in order to have a viable pregnancy. Personally speaking, I have had 6 donor treatments including three frozen, and from all of this, despite having no discernable medical issues, I have had one viable pregnancy and one child. DE is not an easy or failsafe route to having a family and therefore to rely on donors forthcoming in the UK is not necessarily to my mind the best course of action for anyone beyond their mid 30s.

That is not to say that I do not feel for people like Jo and others who have gone public about their distress about being donor conceived. Nor have I personally gone down this route completely oblivious to the needs of any potential child created by this method of conception, nor would I recommend that anyone else consider DE without professional counselling and considerable thought, and above all, a game plan for either telling/not telling, and the strategies and consequences of doing either.

I would love to be able to give my darling daughter full details of her background should she want this but I can't and never will.  Like a lot of people I considered this situation for a long time and did my own research. I came to donor conception reluctantly and initially with a lot of reservations and unease.  I have two friends who never knew their fathers as their mothers had them out of wedlock with the fathers refusing all contact and refusing to acknowledge their child. I discussed this issue with one of them who herself went on to have a child using a sperm donor. Through this and extensive counselling I eventually realised that there was more to genetic heritage than newspaper headlines might suggest.

The facts are that the situation is imperfect but how you handle it and raise a DC child can make a difference to whether the child sees it as a problem or nothing terribly significant. It is also now possible to obtain genetic information from DNA screening tests so from a medical history point of view this is gradually becoming les of an issue for DE children. By the time my daughter is 18 who knows what medical developments will bring.There is also an increasing understanding of epigenetics ie influence of the 'host' /birth mother on the genetic code of a foetus. I understand that if someone screened both myself and my daughter they would find my DNA in my daughter defining me as a fairly close relative if not immediate parent. In short, I had a part to play in determining which parts of her genes were switched on and which remained dormant. Its also been known for some time that the presence of a genetic predisposition to something does not necessarily mean it will happen. 

All of this makes genetic heritage much more complicated than people realise or than some care to admit. 

I therefore take issue with those who  want to make DE in the UK sound like a piece of cake or who portray that the alternative is unspeakably immoral or unjust and guaranteed to lead to a generation of maladjusted and unhappy children and adults.  Neither are true. Human beings are just not that simple.

roze


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## olivia m (Jun 24, 2004)

Roze
You may be amazed, and perhaps not even very pleased, to know that I agree with you.  The whole issue of genetic heritage is immensely complicated. And DE in the UK has never been a piece of cake and going abroad is never going to be the end of the world, particularly if parents understand, as you do, the long-term implications and are ready, willing and able to manage them as issues arise (or not).
Olivia


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## Bree (Mar 21, 2007)

This is a cracking discussion, well done for raising the issue Olivia! See-ing as you are connected to the DCN do you have any general guide-lines of when, how and how much to tell the children that are concieved with help of annonymous donors abroad?

love from Bree


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## minttuw (Jan 22, 2007)

Thank you Roze for your interesting post. The fact that it is possible to obtain genetic info from DNA tests for medical history purposes is great news (I didn't know this - I have not started looking into DE seriously yet). And that the 'host' mother influences the genetic code of the foetus makes me feel much more positive about DE.

I just found this thread on epigenetics elsewhere on FF http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=79093.0 - so I thought I copy it here for you to read if you are interested. I am definitely going to read more about this myself.

Also very interesting to hear from Blueeyes what this person went through when she was younger. I always thought that if you grow up in a loving and supportive family environment without too many traumas (I guess no one has a completely trauma-free childhood) you wouldn't perhaps have this urgent need to find out about your biological background. Or am I being too simplistic here....? However, I do understand the severity of the possibility of DC children ending up having relationships with their half-siblings, and that's one reason why I think the child has the right to know it's donor-conceived. But how and when to tell without making it too traumatic, that's the question!

One question: Are all donor eggs from one cycle fertilised with the sperm of one recipient's partner or can they be used for other recipients too? So if my donor produces, say, 15 eggs are they all reserved for our treatments or are they shared between two or more recipients?

Minty
x


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## brownowl23 (Jan 3, 2006)

HI all

THats a great piece but I dont think all DC children feel like that. I think alot is helped or not by the way the parents handle it.

I also think that epiginetics play a huge part in DC children, more than perhaps its understood at the minute. Epiginetics already are shown to be playing a part in one of my sons, as he has a condition that neither daddy, or donor mum have but I do.

I am lucky that I have a 5 page document about my donor depite them being anonymous so I hope that this will help with questions my boys might have. I also have a photo of her as a child
Ive also kept a journal about my trip abroad to concieve them. All our thoughts and feelings are in that journal, and I hope that it will show them how much we wanted them and how excited we were on the journey it took to get them. 

I have a fantastic book aimed at very young children to help tell them how they were concieved right from a very young age.

So from my point of view my boys will always know that they are different but special. 

Chris


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## Lesley08 (May 4, 2008)

This is a great discussion. Like Brownowl I have also kept a journal of our DE journey and plan to give this to the child when appropriate. It is a minefield and I found it very difficult at first because I was worried about the ethics of the situation. I think my feeling that if you approach child raising in general from an ethical perspective which regards the children as individuals in their own right you probably wont go far wrong and although there may  be some awkward moments there are many of those whilst raising kids anyway. It definitely does give a specific set of issues to deal with but I also think issues you are prepared for are a lot easier to handle than the ones which take us by surprise!

Lesley xx


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## olivia m (Jun 24, 2004)

Hi Bree and others
'Telling' children conceived abroad with an anonymous donor is just the same as 'telling' a child with an identifiable donor.  Start early, under five, with simple age appropriate language (see Telling and Talking booklets free to download from www.dcnetwork.org) and add information in small building blocks as the child matures and then starts to asks questions.  The only difference will be that when they ask about the donor, which is unlikely to be until after age 7/8 when typically 'the penny drops', you will only be able to give the information that you have.  You can say, as those of us do who have children conceived with UK anonymous donors, that you are pretty sure that the donor was a very nice person because s/he wanted to help someone else to have a baby.
Making a scrapbook is a lovely way of sharing a child's beginnings with them.  Just a word of caution.  It needs to be about THEM and not too much about your longings, sadness, despair, anxiety etc.  Every child wants to know they are special because they are loved so much, but every child also wants the freedom to be 'normal' like everyone else as well (ie. free to be as naughty as the next child).  Always being referred to as 'special' could result in repression or rebellion, depending on personality.

Minty - your question about sharing of eggs depends on where you are having treatment.  In the UK, large harvests are of eggs are often split between two recipients, but you would need to ask your particular clinic abroad what they usually do.
Best of luck to everyone
Olivia


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## pipgirl (Jul 11, 2007)

I agree that 'telling' should happen when young...the woman in the article was told later and in an upsetting negative way. She did say it never bothered her as a child and that she had image problems as a teen...now id say that was instability and divorce in her family, not the fact she was DC.

Also, there was a lot less understanding and responsibility when it came to donation in the 70's. That is part of the 'i could have 300 siblings' thing.

My DP was told at 12 that dad was not bio - in an argument during marriage breakup (hardly thoughtful) but that was not DC...Dp's mum was a teen pg and married DP's non bio dad a year later. DP was curious about the bio father but only becasue of v poor family environment in later teens! Then v disapointed when he was found to be a bounder who had absolutley no interest in the child he knew he had.

What i mean to say is, nobody goes on about a child who'se mother had a one night stand or whose father just walked out after pg do they? Its only because its made an issue that people start demanding the 'rights of the child' - we are made out to be selfish thoughtless people for using donor sperm and its the opposite. We think a lot MORE about the consequences for our child and the fact they CAN find out who the donor was if they want than a woman who gets pg accidentally. 
The article is fine to represent what Jo Rose felt, but cannot be representative of other donation families today because all the rules are different and so are the families involved.


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## LiziBee (Aug 24, 2004)

Thanks for your insight Blue, I'm sure there is a lot more to Jo's story than meets the eye. I'm sure she does not want my pity, yet she has it, what a shame she apparently feels this is to blame for all that is wrong in her life. I do applaud her however for fighting for what she sees is right, I just wish those with more positive stories could also step forward. (BTW I think Olivia's daughter has set an excellent example on that front and I bet her parents are as proud as punch that she is willing to speak up so clearly!)
Lizi.x


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## cherriepie (Nov 3, 2007)

Wow - that is a great article which tears me in two really.  I do sympathise with Jo since she appears to have suffered very real, negative effects of being denied access to her genetic heritage.  Some of the issues she raised were good too - how scary would it be to think you could possibly be related to someone you are falling in love with.  The medical consequences of such a union are well known and for this reason alone I wish her luck in finding her biological father.

I intend to become an egg donor after having our baby next year and for me the fact that any resulting child may be able to find me once they are 18 it would not deter me from donating.  My reasons for donating are genuine.  I lost my tubes which was traumatic enough but I still had hope - I would love to help someone achieve their dream and have great empathy for those who do require donor eggs/sperm.  I don't think that deciding to go down the route of donor eggs/sperm would be a decision that would be entered into lightly.

Yes, there has been a decline in donors since the law changed in 2005 but that really makes me question what motivated those who drop out after the first enquiry.

Like so many issues surrounding fertility there will always be contention but I will always view donating as a positive thing - I know that I will be open to meeting any resulting child and accept that although they may share my DNA they will not be my child as they will have had very loving parents who raised them.  I hope that I would be able to answer their questions and reassure them that they were not conceived out of selfishness as Jo hints at in the article but from a deep and lasting love which existed even before the conception.

I also think that it highlights the need for more research into the effects - as Jo highlighted, the effects of adoption are well known and accepted. 

I could probably go on all night but will quit there!


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## maybe-if (Aug 1, 2007)

I sympathise with Jo and completely agree that it's good that the anonymity law is in place. What is a shame, is that it's putting people off donating at the moment.

I find it odd that Jo thinks that less thought was given to her conception than a child concieved the usual way. Really? How much thought did you give it when you first tried to get pregnant. And how many million times more thought do you give it once you go through infertility treatment and then have to use donor eggs/sperm?

I don't think donating eggs is the same as giving your child up for adoption. What is having a period and losing an egg each month - reckless abandoment? Murder? Are we therefore obligated to try to concieve with each egg or sperm we produce?

I do think donor concieved kids can be left with an empty feeling, or thoughts of "what if?" in some circumstances. But compared to adopted kids (because let's face it, that's what the choice is isn't it for infertile couples?) I wonder if the feelings are similar? So kid, would you prefer to have one genetic parent wth you or none? It's a weird question to contemplate.

I also strongly believe that how the parents handle this from a very EARLY age is crucial. Lots of people are adopted, or the result of one night stands and would have exactly the same worries that Jo details in her story, and yet only donor conception seems to be a taboo in society?

A scary percentage of children are lied to by their birth certificate, I think it's something like 10%? I used to work in a genetics lab and we did research into genetic illnesses. We had to factor in a certain % of people who would have lied about who the father of a child was. A ridiculous number of people out there are having affairs. At least, you'd hope, a donor concieved child would be accepted from the outset by both parents.

I think and hope, especially these days, there are so few "traditional" families that it will become less and less of an issue.

I have donated eggs (so I am somewhat biased) and have been told both women got pregnant. Good luck to them.

Recently my brother told me while he was getting his head around it(?) he spoke about it all to a female friend who was horrified at what I'd done. Personally I'm horrified of her reaction.

We're facing the possibility of having to use donor sperm, so I can strongly sympathise with women who need to use donor eggs. I also want to donate eggs again, but only if I can, as I would kinda like to have a chance at getting pregnant myself at some point!

I hope her story doesn't put off people from donating.


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## cherriepie (Nov 3, 2007)

Hey maybe - you raise some fantastic points in your message and have to say that your views are well balanced (in my opinion).  I didn't realise at first that you were a donor yourself until you said - which is fantastic by the way.  How fantatic that you have given two ladies such wonderful gift!

As for the lady your brother was talking to - that's such a typical response and it shouldn't be.  Everything surrounding infertility is taboo but that's down to a lack of knowledge and understanding on some people's part.  I have never been opposed to fertility treatment as my aunt had treatment from when I was very young but admit that I was somewhat ignorant to what it all involved and all the mental, emotional and ethical issues surrounding it until I started my own journey.  

Now when I am met with negative opinions I try my hardest to brush them aside - I know that people who have 6 kids that were conceived naturally are likely to object to tx because they don't understand it but sometimes I do just have to put my view across.  This always happens when God is mentioned.  My answer is always the same - how can you be certain that infertility isn't the work of the devil and treatments for it are God's solution or gift to us?  I have never had an answer to this yet.....lol.

Anyway, I have veered off on a very big tangent......

I wish you all the luck in the world in conceiving your own little miracle.

Cherriepie

xxxxx


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## Louise.G (Mar 29, 2005)

I was really interested to read this thread seeing as recently we have decided to donate our remaining embryos to try to help somebody else.   It has been a huge decision for us and, I, (I think more so than my husband) have spent many months trying to decide what to do as to whether I could live with that decision of donating.   We have undergone counselling which was extremely helpful.   We have also recently undergone detailed screening which included things such as chromosomal analysis, blood group in case the recipient wanted to be matched.  In fact, it was much more indepth than we underwent for our own treatment and the clinic have said this is to reassure the recipient that every box has been ticked so to speak.    All we have to do now is to stipulate our conditions and the only point I feel quite strongly about, for the sake of our own children is that they don't go to somebody in our vicinity, whilst I realise people move etc etc.

Brownowl - thanks for the idea about enclosing a childhood photo with the information.   I think I will do that.  

I now just need to sit down and complete the form about ourselves and I want to give that a lot of thought as to what to say.   Its then down to the clinic.   For my own curiosity and also for what I need to tell my own children in the future I will find out the result of the treatment.   How I will feel in the long term only time will tell but I am more than prepared to take that chance.   I do feel that any child born is the recipient's child and not mine as I haven't nurtured them, given birth to them or brought them up.

I can't underestimate what a major decision it has been for us.


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## turkish delight (Aug 24, 2008)

Interesting reading this and the article ..... I have donated my eggs and have been told that they were successful in a twin pregnancy and the couple still have frozen embryos with my eggs so may be more in the future .... so i felt really sad to read Jo was not happy at all to be conceived from donor sperm  ,

this may sound harsh but if it was not for the love of her parents who wanted her so much they decided to use donated sperm  she would not be here, this is not an easy decision but she was conceived out of love and really really wanted .... She is not a baby as a result of contraception didn’t work etc those babies may feel like they were not wanted oh i was on the pill etc when i fell with you which was a common story i heard growing up - i was a planned baby but my sister was not or the 2 that followed that ,pill,coil in place etc so i think those babies who have been conceived with donor genetics are safe in the knowledge they were planned and wanted so much so their parents went to great lengths to have them to love them and deal with not having their own genetic child, 

i would donate again tomorrow ... Louise what you and your husband are doing is just so so amazing   

Donor babies are safe in the knowledge their were wanted their are loved and that’s so much more than lots of babies know


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## olivia m (Jun 24, 2004)

This has become a really interesting and very thoughtful thread.  I have enjoyed reading the many contributions.  Just wanted to say, regarding the issue of being much loved and wanted, I know this is important for many DC children/young people, my own two included.  However, I have also heard other donor conceived people, who like Jo believe that DC is inherently damaging, say that being wanted so much is not sufficient for them to feel happy about the means of their creation.  They do not like the implication that they should be grateful to anyone for their existence.  They also question 'double standards' of parents wanting a child to have one genetically connected parent, but 'deliberately' cutting the child of from having information about the missing genetic connection.  This of course refers to anonymous donation in the past (and anonymous donation abroad now).  It is a radical view not shared by all DC people and I have only come across it once in someone who was 'told' early.

Louise G
I have a lot of admiration for the huge amount of thought and effort you (and your clinic to their credit) have put into thinking through all the implications of donating your embryos.  I assume from what you say that you would also like them to go to a couple who were going to be open with them as well.
Best wishes to all
Olivia


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## Louise.G (Mar 29, 2005)

Thank you for your kind words 

Olivia - the clinic did say that they do encourage people to be honest with DC children but obviously it is down to them as to why route they chose to go.    I think if I absolutely had to say yes or no, I would prefer yes tell them but its not my decision and I can understand why people choose not to.  I just feel that it would be nice for them to have the chance to find their siblings should they wish to do that.  Me and my husband have three children and my husband has two children from previously.

I have tried to address every scenario in my mind.  Issues like if a child is conceived and they do find us somewhere down the line, would they be angry with us and how would I deal with that.  Whether my own children will be horrified by what we did.  I feel I can cope with it all really.  I think when I find out the result and there has been a successful pregnancy I plan to write a diary of how I've felt.  I thought at the very least this might explain my reasons for taking that decision to our children at the very least.  I should hope that they are very proud of what we did.  Its one of the hardest decisions I have ever had to make and probably will ever make.

Me and DH have talked about how we feel if in years to come we do get that contact and we are both comfortable with our decision and quite happy whichever way it goes.


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